Ask a Manager

manager says I have to come in despite a doctor’s note, boss interrupted me in the bathroom, and more

by Alison Green on October 31, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Manager says I have to come in even though my doctor says to stay home

My company has just increased the number of days we’re expected to be in office. We were fully remote for two years during the pandemic, so the shift to hybrid work has been a big adjustment, as is the new increase to our in-office days.

If you miss an in-office day and don’t make it up in the same week, you get a strike. After three strikes in a six month period, you may be subject to disciplinary action / it may impact your performance review and standing.

Today, I’m working from home with a horrendous cough and fever. My doctor has advised that I should work from home all week to avoid getting my coworkers sick (and gave me a note that I submitted to work). My manager has advised that I should come in later this week as long as my fever is gone so that my performance review doesn’t suffer. I’ve been advised to mask up and to find a meeting room where I can set up camp for the day, so I can isolate while checking the attendance box.

Is there any world in which this is reasonable? I think that if a medical professional has said I shouldn’t be around other people, I shouldn’t come into the office. And asking me to contradict a doctor’s guidance is pretty wild. (For what it’s worth, we live in a large city so coming in will mean being next to strangers on public transit or spending $50+ each way on an Uber.)

No, there’s no world in which that’s reasonable, unless you’re, I don’t know, engaged in some kind of life and death work where you are the only person who can carry out your portion of an incredibly important mission that will result in loss of life or limb if you’re not there. Any chance that’s the case?

Assuming not, your manager is being wildly unreasonable. Maybe that’s because she is wildly unreasonable, or maybe it’s because she’s under extreme pressure from above to make people comply with the new in-office policy and doesn’t have the savvy to know there are times when you still need to push back, who knows.

You can try spelling it out for her: “Are you saying my performance review could suffer because I’m following a doctor’s advice to stay home for a full week? That doesn’t seem right and I wonder if it’s something we can check with HR.”

Otherwise, she’s telling you to return as long as your fever is gone, so it sounds like your fever won’t be gone this week.

2. My boss asked me to take a call while I was in the bathroom

I was sitting at my desk this morning when I suddenly needed to go “number two.” I hate to do this because I work in a converted townhouse where the bathrooms are just one toilet and sink, like in a house. But this was a serious situation!

I was sitting there and I heard my boss outside the bathroom door:
“Molly, are you in there?”
“Um, yes. Yes, I am.”
“Mr. Smith is on the phone.”
Well, I certainly can’t take a phone call NOW, you boob! But I said, “Could you ask him to call back?”
“How long are you going to be in there?”
A very personal question, sir! “As long as it takes, I guess.”

Then another coworker walked by and he started discussing something with her, right outside the door. It was like a staff meeting, except one person was trying to poop. This whole experience left me discombobulated! Should I complain to him about it, or talk to HR?

Eh, hopefully it was one awkward/thoughtless moment and not the start of a pattern. He was in the wrong, but it’s not something you need to do anything about unless it keeps happening. If it does happen again, you could say to him (not through the bathroom door, but when you’re in more of a position to talk), “When I’m in the bathroom, I’m indisposed and can’t take calls. Can you please let the person know I’m away from my desk and will call them back if that happens?”

This isn’t an HR issue unless it’s happening a lot and he’s, like, banging on the door while you’re in there.

Also, a white noise machine inside the bathroom or right outside of it might make this set-up a lot more comfortable.

3. My employee asked me for a reference … for a job I’m also applying to

I’m a mid-level manager at a company who is happy with my job but open to other opportunities. One of my employees, Sansa, is looking for other work openly, because we can’t offer competitive compensation or the hours that she would prefer. I love Sansa — she’s great at her job and I absolutely understand why she would be looking for other employment. She asked me to be a reference and I happily agreed. All has been well, and I have provided a reference for her that resulted in a job offer that didn’t end up working out. Yesterday, she mentioned a job that I also applied to. Eeek!

This job would be a step back in responsibility for me but would offer more pay, better benefits, and more time off. It would be a step forward for her, and probably a great fit. If they called me for a reference, I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend her. But in the back of my mind, I worry about all eventual scenarios. What if we’re in the final round, and they ask for references? What if I get the job and haven’t told her that I applied? Will she feel lied to? Backstabbed? What if she gets the job and finds out after I also applied but lost out to her … will our professional relationship be awkward afterward? Should I tell her now before we’ve even gotten to interviews? We are in a niche field so are bound to continue running into each other. But more importantly, we get along really well as coworkers and generally have a lot of department camaraderie that I wouldn’t want to color with a negative experience at the end of our working relationship. I have a lot of respect for her. I always tell my staff that it’s a job, not a family, and they should put themselves first, but I’m having trouble navigating the lines between what’s professional courtesy and what’s divulging information that’s unnecessary for them to know.

Oooh, yeah, if you feel like you can safely share with her that you’ve applied for that job yourself, with risking repercussions in your current organization, I would. Otherwise, if you end up getting the job and that’s the first time she learns of it, she’s likely to wonder if you only applied because she told you about it (not that people have dibs on job openings, but no one wants to feel their reference swiped an opening out from under them) or if you gave her a less-than-glowing reference in order to get the job yourself.

You can avoid all that if you tell her now. Say that you want to be up-front with her that you had already applied for the position and you are still happy to give her a glowing reference if she wants, but you wanted to be transparent with her in case she’d rather use someone else.

4. Is it better to be interviewed first or last?

Is it better to go early or late in the interviewing process?

I usually choose the first interview time available to (1) show I’m excited about the position and (2) set the standard for everyone else (and to knock out the competition if I’m lucky). But that means I’m waiting on tenterhooks while the employer figures out what they’re trying to do and out of sight, out of mind. Would it be better to go as close to last as possible because it, in theory, shortens my wait time and my meeting is fresh in the mind?

Basically, I need a damn job and I’m willing to try any voodoo that might help.

It really doesn’t matter that much.

There is research showing people remember the first and last in a series better than those in the middle, but if you’re a strong candidate your’e very unlikely to be forgotten just because you were interviewed in the middle. Plus, if you go first, you might set the bar for everyone else — or your interviewer might think, “She was good but we’re so early in the process” and not put any special weight on you.

Moreover, you don’t have enough context on the list of slots they’re offering. For all you know, someone else has already taken an earlier slot or a later slot and you’re just hearing about the remaining ones. Plus, things change all the time — you could have what you think is their last slot and then a great candidate emerges and they need to wait until that person can be scheduled, which drags out the process for everyone, or things get delayed for other reasons. There’s just really no way to game this. Take the slot that’s convenient for you and don’t put more thought into it than that.

To the extent that any voodoo is available, it’s in preparing really well for the interview, not in where your interview falls.

5. My title is different in different places — which one do I use?

In part thanks to your resume advice, I have managed to leave my old, hated industry and entered a new one! There’s a whole new set of industry norms to maneuver, however, and one is perplexing me. On internal documents, I have one title — think llama farmer relationship manager II” — but on outside-facing or public documents I am styled simply “operations specialist.” Which one do I use — on credit card applications, on my voter registration, on future resumes? When my parents ask?

In cases where someone is likely to check the title (like a background check), you should use the title that your company will confirm, which might be the internal one … but might be either of them, depending on how your company does things. For everything else, you can use whichever of the two you prefer, since they’re both accurate.

And for the first category, where you need to make sure it’ll match up with what the company will say, ask your boss! You don’t need to say it’s for future reference checks; you can say you want to make sure you’re using the right title on things like credit card applications.

someone is always crying in our morning meetings

by Alison Green on October 30, 2024

A reader writes:

Can you help me deal with the amount of crying at work I’m dealing with at the moment?

I manage a mid-size team of people who are all very caring and empathetic, and are through and through a great team.

Every morning we have a meeting set up for the day. I’m finding more and more often that I have to deal with someone becoming overcome with tears at this meeting. My team all have their struggles, with health, family, bereavement, and plenty of other genuine personal problems. I find that some members of the team more than others will come to the meeting already in tears, or will become tearful if asked how they are. The meeting will then be focused on that person and their issue until I can, as tactfully and kindly as possible, try to steer us back on course. I’ll follow up with them afterwards to make sure they know I will support them in any way I can by adjusting their workload, giving them flexibility, etc. I get a lot of feedback from my team to say that I am a supportive manager.

But I’m really starting to struggle with this. I make it clear to my team they don’t need to have cameras on for the meeting, and they can message me ahead of time if they are struggling and don’t feel up to the meeting. I know that life these days is HARD and I’ve had my share of difficulties in recent years. But I do feel that this morning meeting is becoming a support group at times. I’m worried that members of staff who I know to have a lot going on in their personal lives, but don’t bring it up in the meeting, feel like they now have to shoulder someone else’s emotions. It is draining for me as well; I am only human.

Is there a nice way to tell repeat criers that they need to maybe skip the meeting if they feel like crying? Should I even do that? I think some of the team really rely on work connections to support them as they don’t have a great network of family and friends.

How do I deal with this? And how can I keep my sanity when I am getting all these emotions dumped on me, even when I’m having a tough time myself?

I wrote back and asked, “Are these daily meetings strictly necessary? That’s a lot of meetings and I’d look at whether they need to be happening that frequently as a first step!”

The organization very much expects us to do this every morning. The meeting can take as little as 15 minutes if we don’t have too much chat. It should just be a quick check-in to capture figures and flag any issues, but can and does get derailed.

First and foremost unless you find the meetings truly useful, see if you can cut down on how often you have them. If you don’t have the authority to do that, can you talk to whoever needs to okay it and explain that not only are they unhelpful but they’re becoming actively derailing?

But if that’s not an option — or if the meetings really do serve a useful purpose — then a few things:

1. Try making the calls audio-only. Not just “you don’t need to have your camera on,” but “we are going to leave cameras off for our meetings this week and see how that goes.” With cameras off, there will be fewer openings for “Jane, you look upset, is everything okay?” and a higher chance of staying focused on the meeting’s agenda.

2. Openly articulate the challenge to your team: “We have a team of empathetic people who care a lot about each other, and many of us have struggles going on outside of work. I love that we support each other, but we’re having trouble getting through our morning meeting agendas. I’m going to ask that we stay focused on work items at these meetings, but if you’re not in a head space to do that on any particular day, please message me that you’re skipping the meeting and we’ll connect later instead.”

3. After laying the groundwork that way, resolve to be more task-focused in the meetings. You probably feel it would be callous to ignore that someone seems upset, but it’s really okay to say, “Unfortunately we’ve got to figure out XYZ right now, but Jane, if you need to drop off this call, you can — and we can talk later if there’s anything you need from me in regard to workload or anything else” … and then move the conversation back to work items. (Similarly, if asking how people are is what tends to bring this out, try skipping that and just say, “Good morning, everyone! We’ve got a lot to cover so I’m going to jump straight in…”)

I suspect that if you try the above for a few weeks, you’ll be able to reset the meeting norms.

how can I stay in touch with former coworkers?

by Alison Green on October 30, 2024

A reader asks:

I’ve been working for a while with a senior colleague who has been amazing — knowledgeable, supportive, and patient. He recently moved on from my organization. When he left, he told me to keep in touch.

I’d love to keep in touch but have no idea what to say! I feel like the standard advice is to send relevant articles and say why I think they would be interesting to him, but he’s moved to a different industry and is more than 10 years senior to me. Should I just reach out and ask him how the move went and how the new job is? How do I follow up after that? What are the best ways to stay in touch with colleagues in general, once you no longer work together?

I answer this question over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

my drunk coworkers are gossiping about me not drinking

by Alison Green on October 30, 2024

A reader writes:

I find myself in a truly bizarre situation. I attended a work conference overnight this weekend with almost all of my colleagues. We’re attorneys at a pretty large “small” law firm.

At the end of the conference day, we all had dinner together. My close colleague, Jenna, and I arrived to dinner before the rest of our colleagues. I ordered a mocktail.

During dinner, another colleague pulled an “I’ll have what she’s having” and ordered my drink. I did not notice this. When it arrived without alcohol, she was apparently surprised. This led, for reasons I can’t fathom, to my colleagues (all around my age, almost all women, all also associates) apparently deciding I must be pregnant. My colleagues were all VERY drunk.

When we left dinner, one of the colleagues, Sara, asked me outright if this was true. I asked her why she would think that and explained that I wasn’t drinking because I was going to a big party tomorrow, and drinking two nights in a row is just too much for me.

Another colleague, Rose, cornered me and said that she heard I was pregnant. I asked where she heard something like that, and she proceeded to tell me all the associates was talking about it, she heard I was “trying,” and she thought it better to go straight to the source than just speculate. Rose has been very open about her own fertility issues, so I found her questions absolutely shocking. I told her that if I have something to announce, she’d hear about it. I repeated to her that I was going to a party tomorrow and didn’t want to drink two nights in a row. Sara, standing nearby, said, “You don’t have to explain yourself.” Which … apparently is not the case!

Rose proceeded to remind me that if our boss found out by way of gossip, he would be livid. Great.

Rose and another associate, Amanda, then offered to get a round of drinks. Knowing I was under so much scrutiny, I asked them to get me a glass of sparkling wine. Rose returned with the wine, announced to the group that now I could “prove” I wasn’t pregnant, and proceeded to watch me drink with Amanda. I drank about half the glass, before saying I was heading to bed since it was after 11 pm.

I came late to the next morning’s first panel. Jenna told me that the group was still speculating, said I didn’t drink enough (!), and must indeed be pregnant. I told Rose off at the end of the panel and said I was uncomfortable, that was rude, and not to speculate about my health again.

Here’s the thing. I AM pregnant. It is still early, I’m not ready to share, and even my own family doesn’t know yet! I don’t even know if this baby is healthy and developing normally yet. Our boss is kind of paranoid. If he hears this gossip, it will undoubtedly have negative consequences for me. I’m terrified and wildly uncomfortable.

We don’t have HR. I have no idea what to do. Confront each of these colleagues individually for the incredibly inappropriate behavior? Announce early to head off gossip? I can think of one partner at the firm I trust enough to speak with about this. What in the world do I do?

WTF! Your colleagues were wildly out of line.

Not only is it rude and invasive to speculate on whether someone is pregnant, let alone confront them to ask them about it (and no, Rose, it’s not better to “go straight to the source”), but it’s also ridiculous to assume someone is pregnant just because they’re not drinking. There are a ton of reasons someone might not be drinking on any given occasion: your own reason of not wanting to drink two nights in a row, or they’re on a medicine that prevents it, or they’re trying to drink less, or they’re driving later, or they didn’t eat a lot today and don’t want to drink on an empty stomach, or they prefer not to lower their inhibitions at work events, or they just don’t feel like it.

It’s bizarre that your coworkers care so much. Even if they see drinking together as an enjoyable bonding ritual at work conferences, it’s extremely weird to be so put off that someone else doesn’t feel like it — and I wonder if you not drinking made them feel defensive about how much they were all drinking, given that you described them as “VERY drunk.” Some people get like that.

I hate that you felt like you had to order a drink just to make them stop hassling you. If you could go back and do it over, I’d say to tell them that they were out of line, that there are a zillion reasons someone might not be drinking, and that the topic had become tiresome and so you were heading out.

As for what to do now, you definitely don’t need to announce your pregnancy earlier than you otherwise would! They’re not entitled to that information, and there’s no reason you’d need to burden yourself with that just to head off gossip.

Normally I’d say that one option is to let them gossip if they want to and just decide you don’t care. But you’re concerned about consequences if it gets back to your boss, so that might not feel feasible. (More on that in a minute.) Personally, I’d like to see you lay into each of the involved coworkers about this, given how very offensive it is. Sample language: “There can be a ton of reasons someone’s not drinking, not just pregnancy. Many of those reasons are personal and private, and pushing people to share them in a work context is pretty horrible. I also don’t appreciate you speculating about whether I could be pregnant — and I hope you’ll think about how that would land with someone struggling with infertility. If someone is pregnant and ready to share, they will share it. Please give me and others the courtesy and respect of shutting this down.”

Separately: what’s up with a pregnancy “undoubtedly having negative consequences” for you with your boss? That’s not okay (and it’s illegal if your employer has 15 or more employees), and you’re going to need a plan for dealing with that at whatever point you do announce, if that comes. If your boss is truly hostile to pregnancy and you think he’s likely to illegally discriminate against you, it’s not a bad idea for that plan to include touching base with an employment lawyer.

coworker asked to borrow money, changing into pajamas as soon as you get home, and more

by Alison Green on October 30, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Should managers have to train professionals on basic computer skills?

We have an ongoing debate in my office – is a manager responsible for training an employee on non-essential but generally required skills? For example, my partner and I provide our new attorneys training in how our office operates, the applicable legal fields we cover, legal updates, and generally how to be an attorney. We always provide very detailed training on how to be an attorney in our office and our nuanced procedures.

Where we have a difference of opinion on training is on essential technologies that an attorney needs to use but are not attorney-related. For example, Microsoft Office, Zoom, Teams, using a digital calendar, etc. Not any technology related to our field, but just ones the general office-working population uses these days. This also includes basic tasks related to them like setting up your computer to turn on a camera, hiding a line in Excel, or troubleshooting a printer paper jam.

I refuse to teach new attorneys these technologies as they are basic to any working environment, and they have a vast amount of schooling where they should have likely learned most of it. However, my partner is adamant that we should be providing them training and walking them through these basic things. If they have tried troubleshooting and still have questions, I will answer. I do not apply this same expectation to our support staff who have not had as much schooling or office experience. Is it reasonable to expect high level employees to figure these things out on their own? (I will also note that my frustration also comes from the fact that it is only ever men younger than me who must be walked through these tasks.)

A lot of people don’t learn that stuff in college, depending on what they’re studying. But it’s reasonable to ask them to try googling the answer first — most of what you described is very google-able by anyone with a bit of resourcefulness — and to tell them to only come to you if they’re still having trouble after that. And if someone has a lot of questions in a particular area, get them set up with formal training (purchased by your office, but not run by you personally) in whatever the program is.

I’m not blind to the gender component of this, though, and that does make it grate more. I’m curious whether your partner is male and, if so, whether you find these younger men go to him with questions at the same rate as they come to you. If not, and instead they’re specifically coming to the woman for admin help, that’s an issue.

2. My coworker asked to borrow money

A coworker, who I interact with occasionally for work-related issues, unexpectedly asked to borrow money. The amount was not substantial (about 25% of the minimum monthly wage here), but I felt uncomfortable with the request since we are not close and have only professional interactions. We work in IT and our salaries are way above the minimum.

He reached out to me via a video call and asked for the loan, promising to repay me by the next paycheck in two weeks. I declined, explaining that I don’t lend money to anyone, whether friends or family. He was understanding and we made some small talk before ending the call.

Should I raise this with my manager or HR? Or should I just brush it aside for now and do it just in case he asks for money again?

Someone you only occasionally interact with set up a video call specifically to ask to borrow money? And they wanted 25% of the monthly minimum wage (which in the U.S. which would be at least a few hundred dollars)? That’s awfully bold.

I’d normally say that no, you don’t need to raise it with anyone — you declined, and he seems fine with that — but it’s such an odd request to make of someone who he doesn’t know well that I’m concerned you’re not the first or the only one he’s asking, and your manager might want to be aware. You don’t have to raise it, but if you do you could frame it as, “Since I don’t know him well, I wondered if I’m not the only one he’s asking and didn’t know if you’d want to be aware of that if so.”

3. Is it weird to change into pajamas as soon as I get home?

I teach middle school social studies and I have to be at work most days by 7 am. I love my students and my work, but by the end of the day, I’m exhausted. I usually get home by 4 pm and the first thing I do is put on my pajamas.

My husband works in senior management for a Fortune 500 company. He usually gets home well after I do, and he gets annoyed sometimes to get home and find me wearing pajamas. He sees it as a sign that I’m refusing to do anything else that day. He changes out of his suit into more casual clothes, but he doesn’t dress down to the point that he wouldn’t want to answer the door or run to the store. I’m curious if it’s truly unusual to put on pajamas as soon as you get home from work. What do your readers think?

This isn’t really a work question, but it’s an interesting one! I do think it’s somewhat unusual — which doesn’t mean it’s not understandable. I did have a roommate who did exactly this when we were all about 20, and it definitely read as … well, an unusual amount of homebody-ness, especially at that age. I can imagine your husband feeling like it’s condemning him a bit to that same level of homebody-ness … and like you’re sort of giving up on anything more interesting happening that day. Is there a compromise where you change into comfy lounge clothes but not actual pajamas until it’s closer to bedtime?

Alternately, if you want to have some fun with this, tomorrow you could be in club wear when he comes home and see how he reacts to that.

4. Should I tell my employer why I won’t come to the Christmas party?

I work as a professor’s student assistant in the department I also study in. (It’s minimum wage for about 5 hours a week). A few other students who work in similar positions and I were once again invited to join the department’s Christmas celebration as we are technically employees of the department.

Unlike the years before where it was just a small get-together where we had to bring our own food (which none of the professors attended), this time it’s supposed to be in a restaurant, but the invitation states outright that we have to pay for our meal ourselves.
While I can probably pay for a single meal out, it’s not without some pain, and I definitely would not have chosen a restaurant in this price class for myself. I know the same goes for the other students.

I could just politely decline, but would there be any merit in mentioning why I won’t attend? I don’t want to stir up trouble but I’m also disappointed that our professors, who are all very well tenured, are seemingly oblivious to the gap between our financial resources. The professor I work for has been gracious in the past, paying my part of the check when I joined meals during work-related outings, but I don’t want to rely on his personal kindness.

Yes, mention it! It doesn’t have to be in a “lodge a complaint” type way — it can just be, “Unfortunately it’s out of my budget.” Encourage any peers who feel the same as you to be candid about it too. It’s useful feedback.

If you do want to make more of a point about it, that would be okay too. In that case you could say, “I know the plans are already set for this year, but in case it’s helpful for know for next year, that price range is rough for us student workers to swing.”

5. Is it OK to return to my old team?

I left a role at Great Company for a new job for more money. It turned out to be a huge mistake; I HATED the new job. I asked my old boss if I could return after half a year. (We had a great working relationship.) Although there were no openings on Great Boss’s team as they had filled my role already, they recommended me for a different role back at Great Company, under a different manager. I’ve been back almost a year now, and Great Boss just let me know there is an opening on their team and asked if I’d like to return. I would love to work under Great Boss again. Current Boss is great, but I liked my previous team more and I miss Great Boss. I’m worried how this will be perceived, as I left Great Team at Great Company, then came back to Great Company, and now am potentially leaving Current Team. Is this unprofessional? I never should have left to begin with!

This isn’t unprofessional at all! You’ve been back a year, another position is opening up that you’re interested in, and you’re throwing your hat in the ring. There’s nothing wrong with that.

I suspect you’re worried about seeming flaky, like you’re jumping around too much and should have stayed where you were originally, but this kind of thing happens. People leave and try out new things and sometimes find their way back to where they started (and it doesn’t sound like this would even be the same role as your original one, although that would be okay too). You can be happy in your current job and with your current boss and still see that a move would fit you even better. (If you keep doing it annually, that could start to look weird after a certain point, but you’re not at that point.)

is it OK to ask my team to do working lunches?

by Alison Green on October 29, 2024

A reader writes:

I have a question about working lunches. I manage a small team, and I recently held a brainstorming session for some professional development ideas for next year that the whole team can participate in. One of the options I suggested is (company-sponsored) lunch and learns, where we watch a work-related webinar and debrief, invite an expert to present on a relevant topic, or have a team member present on a special skill. These are pretty common at many corporations, and I was thinking maybe quarterly at most. One of my employees (who is new to the industry and has been here about a year) said, “I don’t want lunch and learns. I get paid to work eight hours a day, so why would I work nine?” I found this so very off-putting. But I need a sanity check.

I don’t particularly want to work nine hours a day either (or eight, or seven…). But we’re salaried, and I think company-provided working lunches are pretty common in this type of work. I’m not attached to the idea and will scrap it if no one wants to do it; I just want to know if I’m off-base by being so annoyed at that response. This employee has expressed aspirations of taking on more responsibility and being promoted, but I didn’t get promoted by expressing opinions like that (and this isn’t a generational conflict — we’re the same age). Is this something I need to address, or is this just the prevalent mentality that I need to get over as a manager?

It’s true that lunch-and-learns and other working lunches are very common; you’re not coming up with an odd or outrageous idea.

It’s also true that they encroach on time that would otherwise be employees’ own, and people aren’t wrong to dislike them for that reason. If your team doesn’t currently have a culture of doing working lunches, adding them in is going to frustrate some people (especially people who use lunch to decompress and not be “on,” or to handle errands or personal calls, and so forth).

Moreover, if watching work-related webinars or listening to experts present serves a business need that you want people to prioritize, why does it have to happen over lunch rather than during regular work time? Carve out real work time for it if it’s important. And if it’s not important enough for that, maybe it’s not important enough to expect people to give up a lunch break for.

And again, I know it’s the norm in some fields. But since it’s not currently the norm on your team, why add it in when you don’t have to?

All that said, “I get paid to work eight hours a day, so why would I work nine?” isn’t the way being salaried works in a lot of fields, and if you see other signs that your employee is bringing that mentality to the job in ways that will cause problems, that’s worth addressing — if only to clarify what they can expect in your field.

But I would also be wary of thinking “I didn’t get promoted by expressing opinions like that” — because the culture is changing around this kind of thing, and that’s a good thing and we should welcome it. If you can point to specific ways that mindset will be a problem in your field — like, for example, that people sometimes need to respond to client needs outside of business hours — you should. But if you’re just bristling at the sentiment on principle, challenge yourself on that and ask if it’s genuinely wrong or just different than how you’re used to thinking.

A note: I expect to see a lot of “lunch-and-learns are an inappropriate encroachment; never do them” in the comment section. But they’re a very common thing in many fields, and it’s naive to pretend they’re not. Still, though, it sounds like they’re not currently the norm for your team, and there’s no pressing need to change that.

can I ask why my coworker was fired?

by Alison Green on October 29, 2024

A reader writes:

I have always thought of my job as a place where people didn’t get fired unless they were obviously and consistently bad at their jobs. I have been here for six years and I know that when we get the “goodbye so-and-so” emails from HR about people unexpectedly leaving, that probably means they were fired. When people leave because they got a new job or otherwise leave on good terms, they usually announce it themselves, with their final date of employment listed so we can wrap up any projects, and they typically include lots of thank you’s and appreciation for their coworkers. So when the news comes from HR without any advance notice, I assume it was probably a firing. Based on what I know about how our company is run, I also assumed the fired people probably had been warned or otherwise had known that their performance wasn’t up to par. And while I haven’t been privy to details, when it’s happened in the past I haven’t ever been surprised.

However, in the last couple of weeks, two employees were (I assume) let go about a week apart from each other. I don’t think either of their firings had to do with the other. We got the typical emails from HR saying the company has ended their relationship with each person, contact their manager for project questions, and we wish them the best. What has me thrown is that both of these people were, in my opinion, stellar coworkers who had been with the company for years, one almost for a decade.

This workplace is low drama, low gossip, and what I would consider healthy. But this has thrown people into a tizzy. One of the fired people was the cousin to a current employee and I think a lot of folks want to ask her about it, or ask what happened. I don’t know if anyone has. But everyone is really confused, and personally I am worried! What could have happened to these seemingly high-performing employees to have caused them to lose their jobs? And who could be next?

So my question is, what kind of questions are appropriate to ask, and to whom? Do I just need to accept that the people who make firing decisions know what they’re doing and have their reasons? Is it ever appropriate to ask why someone was fired and to express that it’s making me nervous? I know I’m not alone in this and the whole episode has caused our quiet company to descend into gossip and fear because we don’t get it. What is the best course of action here, if any?

You can read my answer to this letter at New York Magazine today. Head over there to read it.

at what point can I report my inappropriate and inflammatory coworker?

by Alison Green on October 29, 2024

A reader writes:

I’m having an issue with a coworker who I find deeply irritating and, frankly, am embarrassed to be professionally associated with.

I have reported her more egregious actions to our manager and, after my second complaint, started documenting behavior but I don’t know what is actionable and what is petty and interpersonal. I’m also having trouble feeling confident in my judgment in this because she is very well liked by everyone but me and is currently being pursued for a full-time position within the company in a different department. I don’t know if they are aware of how she is but I assume so. She’s not shy. I’m going to call her Kevina after the gloriously infamous Kevin.

My coworker has a habit of saying things that are inappropriate, inflammatory, or politically charged because she thinks it’s funny. It’s constant. I have made two complaints to our manager about her behavior so far because they seemed actionable. The first complaint was when she was bragging about using a random website to find part of my Social Security number. We have access to a system that contains thousands of people’s SSNs, including my own, so this felt like something I should tell my boss. The second complaint was when Kevina came into the office and told us all the reasons she thinks businesses should be able to refuse service to gay people, loudly, while standing five feet away from a customer.

After each complaint, my boss acknowledged that she knows Kevina says inappropriate things and that she “would talk to her.”

Three days after the second report, Kevina starts the shift quiet until she makes a 9/11 joke and moves a stapler through the air while making airplane noises with her mouth and tries to get others to set up water bottles to be her Twin Towers (they refuse). Thirty minutes later she starts telling us in detail how to make a capless water bottle into a dangerous projectile in response to hearing an event hosted by our employer is going to be capless to prevent bottles being used as dangerous projectiles. That was after the second talk, according to my boss. I’ll include other examples of things she’s said at the end for transparency but it’s just a lot.

I’m leaving in two months anyway, so I’m not interested in making this situation better for myself, I’m purely interested in making an HR complaint because it’s absurd that she’s gotten away with acting like this for so long and my manager needs some checking up on for allowing it. That’s just my opinion, though, and I’m doubting myself a bit here. What sorts of things do you consider worthy of documenting for HR that aren’t overtly illegal and what would just be interpersonal? Also my complaints would have to be waterproof because she’s autistic and my company has a history of dismissing complaints against people with disabilities, including a sexual harassment complaint against her, according to her.

And here are those extra examples for context and catharsis: In the past she has told the whole office, including our boss, that she drives drunk and how dangerous she finds it, talked about her gambling addiction and losses, her wish to open a gun store that gives free alcohol with gun purchases, we should “build a wall” between our department and another and attributes complaints to “Biden’s America,” asks the veterans in the adjacent office if specific guns can actually kill people (she has since obtained a firearm that she keeps a secret from her roommates), and went around the office asking for a razor blade so she could cut and snort a pack of Smarties. And then did. Off the desk in the customer-facing front office. She’s sent someone about three levels up from us a Slack asking if she can drink non-alcoholic beer on the clock, on multiple occasions said that our theme for the office decor competition should be the January 6th Insurrection, spent about three weeks asking every male courier who came in the office if they were single and wanted to date a single mom (if nobody tells her to stop, is it sexual harassment?), tried to gather coworker support for a “free Diddy walk-out,” and told a coworker who had just told a light-hearted story about her teenage son doing something silly that she should “follow the American tradition and beat him with a belt and hang him upside down from a drying rack.” She’s also started saying “Ohmm Shaman God” in a weird voice as a sort of prayer? I honestly don’t know why that started, that might just be annoying. I’ve omitted a lot that’s probably just annoying and a few similar to what I’ve listed because it’s been constant for months. Again, thank you for any semblance of sanity you could provide.

Oh my goodness.

All of this is over-the-top ridiculous and offensive, but the “free Diddy” walk-out at least made me laugh (though there is nothing funny about Diddy), as did the snorting cut-up Smarties.

Anyway, it’s definitely true that when you have a coworker who’s this inappropriate, you can start to question what’s actionable versus what’s just personally annoying, but there’s plenty here that a responsible company would act on: the Social Security numbers (!), the instructions for making dangerous projectiles (!), the overt political posturing, the gun talk, the snorting substances while customer-facing, the bigotry toward gay people, and the sexual harassment, for starters.

It’s good that your manager has acknowledged the problem and agreed to talk to Kevina … but it doesn’t sound like those conversations have had any impact, and it’s troubling that your boss hasn’t done anything about that. Does your boss know the problems continued after that? If there’s any chance she doesn’t, it’s worth going back to her to let her know. But otherwise, she’s not giving your team a lot of reason to believe she can effectively manage Kevina, so I can see why you’re considering HR.

I’m not sure your HR team will be any better if they’ve already dismissed a sexual harassment complaint simply because Kevina is autistic, but it’s worth a try — especially since you’re on your way out and so don’t have to be particularly invested. And sometimes even if HR brushes off one complaint, they’ll have a harder time brushing off a pattern of complaints.

Some general principles to help you sort through this: it’s reasonable to escalate complaints that have to do with religious or political proselytizing; anything that physically endangers people; anything that violates people’s privacy or company policy (like those Social Security numbers); any advocacy of violence; or any harassment based on sex, religion, race, sexual orientation, or other protected characteristics. Take all of those to HR, and make sure to use words like “harassment,” “physically endangering employees,” and “privacy invasion” where they apply. Don’t count on them to connect the dots and understand why each incident on its own is actionable; spell it out using words that should ring alarm bells for them.

If something doesn’t fall in those categories, it’s more likely to just be personally annoying without warranting a formal complaint. (Although while things outside those categories might not warrant HR, they could still warrant intervention from your manager simply for the disruption they’re creating.)

Also, let your coworkers know that you’re talking to HR and let them know what comes of it. They might feel more inclined to report issues themselves if they know you’ve paved the way, and their reports will reinforce that there’s a pattern. (Or they might feel less inclined if they know your company doesn’t care to act, but that’s still useful information for them to have.)

can I opt out of AI assistants in meetings, potlucks with food-restricted coworkers, and more

by Alison Green on October 29, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Can I opt out of AI assistants in meetings?

In large Zoom meetings, I’ve noticed a coworker using an AI assistant to transcribe and take notes. While I understand the desire to use these kinds of tools on an ease and accessibility level, everything about AI, from privacy to environmental, squicks me out beyond belief. I’ve yet to speak during these calls, but I wonder if there’s any standing for me or another coworker to ask these tools not be used?

Your coworker may not even know the AI is there. Some AI tools, once turned on for one use, will start attending and transcribing meetings without being specifically requested each time (see this letter for an example).

At this point, any employer that hasn’t already communicated a clear policy about the use of AI in meetings and other work needs to, so you could raise the issue on your team or within your organization and ask for a clear policy on when AI use is and isn’t okay, and point out the potential security risks if the data from meetings is stored outside your company. Assuming this is an outside AI tool and not something proprietary to your company, in many organizations using it this way would be considered a security risk.

2. Hate group bumper sticker in the company parking lot

One of my employees has a large sticker from an anti-government extremist group on his truck. I want to ask him to either remove the sticker or park his truck somewhere that is not in the company parking lot (we serve a lot of government entities, and these folks tried to kidnap the governor!). My HR team is telling me that I can’t do this because it violates the employee’s freedom of speech, but do I seriously have to let him advertise his hate group at our place of business?

“Freedom of speech,” as a legal concept, applies to the government not being able to restrict speech, not to private employers having rules about what is and isn’t okay to be displayed on their property. From a purely legal standpoint, a private employer absolutely has the right to tell an employee that they can’t display an offensive sticker in their parking lot.

Whether or not your company will allow you to do that is a different question. If your company isn’t willing to back you up, or tells you directly that they’re not willing to prohibit offensive stickers in their lot, they’re allowed to take that stance. They don’t have to take that stance (so HR is wrong if they’re implying their hands are tied), but they can choose to. But you might have better luck escalating this to someone who isn’t HR.

3. Potlucks with food-restricted coworkers

My government workplace holds potluck and other food-related events a few times a year. It’s nothing big, but those who attend like them. There are a few folks who don’t attend because they have food restrictions (gluten-free, vegan, etc.). It’s fine if folks don’t want to attend, but I don’t want anyone to feel excluded! Some others bring their own food or just come to sit with us. The last time we had a potluck, I searched for a recipe online for a vegan, gluten-free dish to share. I made sure to let folks know that I made a special dish so they felt included. It was a new challenge for me, and everyone seemed to enjoy it.

My colleagues who host the event say they would love to have people with food sensitivities bring dishes that meet their dietary needs to share as well. We have enough people with different preferences that there should be some variety if a few of them bring something to share. Should the burden be on those with dietary restrictions to bring a dish that meets their needs? Is it helpful for the rest of us to bring dishes with others’ needs in mind? I don’t want people to feel pressured to attend because I made a specific dish; I just want them to feel included. We also print out recipes to share and to let folks know what ingredients are in each dish.

This varies by person. Some people with food restrictions will be delighted someone went out of their way to provide something they can eat. Others may be wary about eating it (ask any vegetarian who’s ever heard a dish described as “vegetarian” only to find out it contained chicken broth); they’re not willing to risk someone got the details of their restrictions exactly right. Some may be happy to bring their own dish so they’re assured there will be something there they can eat; others are happier opting out altogether because they don’t want to discuss their diet at all, or simply don’t like potlucks. All of which is to say: there’s no one right answer here. The only way to know for sure is to talk to your colleagues and ask what they’d most like.

All that said, you sound thoughtful and kind, and I’m sure your food-restricted coworkers appreciate you thinking about them!

4. My coworkers talk about me like a pet

I’m an introverted and quiet person and I rarely participate in non-work conversations with my coworkers. I’m not rude — I participate when I’m directly addressed. I just usually keep to myself otherwise. My coworkers definitely know me as the quiet one, but nobody’s ever complained.

My issue is this: sometimes, when my coworkers are chatting near me, they’ll speak for me in a way I can only explain as the way people will talk about their pets, attributing reactions and opinions to them as a way to comment on the situation. “Fluffy says, ‘Fish? I love fish!’” That kind of thing. They’ll be complaining about something and then say, “Ha, Morgan thinks I’m crazy” or “Morgan’s over there like ‘you guys don’t know what you’re talking about.’” And I’m not involved in the conversation at all, let alone thinking or reacting the way they say.

I don’t really know how to respond when this happens. Should I correct them? They’re not talking to me, just around me. I don’t want to create a fuss if this is normal and they’re just joking around, but I find it uncomfortable to have opinions on something I wasn’t even paying attention to attributed to me.

I think you’re reading it wrong! They’re not really attributing those opinions to you; they’re trying to acknowledge your presence. They don’t want to talk around you as if you’re not there and it’s almost certainly meant as a warm/funny way to not seem like they’re ignoring you. You don’t need much of a response to it — you could just smile and say “no, no” or “ha, not at all” or any other non-committal but reasonably warm response you’re comfortable with.

5. I was promised a bonus but haven’t seen it yet

I was lucky enough to be asked to come work a conference overseas for my job. I did great, and got a lot of good feedback emailed to my manager — hurray!

During the conference, the organizer (who works at our company) mentioned that all of the staff (me included) working the event would get a bonus. She and I even talked about what I should spend my bonus on.

I never did receive it. I checked with a coworker who was also at the event, and he got his already. I’m pretty non-confrontational, and I don’t want to come off as greedy or money-grubbing, but I’d like the bonus! What’s the best way to ask about it?

It’s not money-grubbing to ask about a work payment that you were told you would receive, especially when you know someone else already got theirs. Talk with the organizer and say this: “You had mentioned everyone working at X would get a bonus, which I really appreciated. Do you know when we’re likely to see it come through?”

the star guest got drunk at an event I was hosting

by Alison Green on October 28, 2024

A reader writes:

I’m in a position where I do some industry event hosting and public interviewing. I don’t arrange any of the events, I’m just a speaker/host (I work in a related field too, but these gigs are freelance and paid separately.)

I had agreed to interview someone very prestigious in their field who was launching a new product. It was a big event with paid tickets, with the expectation that quotes from the interview would be used for content, promotion, and publicity. I’ve worked with the PR company who were handling it on similar events and it’s all been fine.

At this recent event, I turned up 15 minutes before the interview, as requested. The VIP, who I’ll call Lee, arrived and seemed a little tipsy but in good humor (it was an evening event in a venue with a bar so while being tipsy obviously is not great, it wasn’t like they were morning-drinking at an office.) I asked if they wanted to go over the interview questions, they said no and that they’d go with the flow on stage, and seemed fine.

Alison, I went to the bathroom and in that time (literally about four minutes) Lee had downed a full glass of wine and started gulping down another. The PR people were all present and laughing away like it was a party — one of them was the person who got Lee the drinks from the venue’s bar. I was immediately worried this would be a mess but Lee is an adult surrounded by their publicity people who weren’t saying anything, so I said nothing. For what it’s worth, there would be some allowance for this person to lean into some “creative genius” eccentricity if they were still interesting and articulate, so I was hoping that would be the case.

It was not.

I went on stage, gave Lee a nice introduction, and they came on stage — and it unsurprisingly and rapidly went very wrong. Lee couldn’t articulate themselves, started getting frustrated at themselves, and I could tell they were about to start crying. I pivoted the discussion to some audience feedback on the need for the new product, early reviews, etc, just to give Lee a few moments to breathe. As an audience member was speaking, I quietly asked Lee if they wanted me to wrap it up, but they said they wanted to hear some more feedback. I vamped a little with the audience, but I could see that Lee was not getting any more composed and the audience was aware. I tried to wrap it up as elegantly as I could, at which point Lee started audibly getting emotional, saying they’d ruined the event. The PR reps ushered Lee back to their hotel, only mentioning to me on the way out that Lee hadn’t eaten anything before drinking, had been very anxious about the event, and had a hugely stressful week.

I feel mortified and a bit sick. I feel like I unwillingly participated in someone who has a drinking issue, major anxiety, or both being shoved in front of a crowd when they were in a bad state. I’ve never been in that position before and feel like I should have tried to say something in the three minutes we had before going on stage, or maybe ended the “interview” more quickly. By the time we’d started, I was genuinely trying to figure out how to give the product some attention and discussion while not drawing attention to Lee’s behavior — but in retrospect I think it was so obvious to the audience that Lee was drunk that I should have just got them off the stage immediately, rather than have them continue to sit on stage for 15 minutes.

It’s so obvious that Lee was not in a good space that I can’t be angry at them, I just feel sad for them — but I am annoyed at the PR team for not flagging Lee’s anxiety with me and for giving them two drinks within literally five minutes right before we were going on stage. Apart from Lee’s welfare, I’m also worried that I looked unprofessional to the audience and like the discomfort of the event is going to fall on me, and, as I’m freelance, that’s a big deal for me in terms of future jobs.

I’m not sure if anything needs to be said to the PR company. They’re obviously aware it did not go to plan for them or the product launch, so sending a message afterwards feels possibly like stating the obvious?

We had also agreed on a fee in advance which was on the assumption that I would have a 45-minute interview with Lee, which obviously did not happen. Should I still expect the full amount? I did all my research and preparation and arrived ready to do my job, but I know they didn’t get what they needed. I don’t know what is fair to expect, payment-wise?

You should be paid for the job you agreed to do. You set aside time and prepared and came ready to do the work, and then you rolled with a very difficult situation very gracefully. Nothing here warrants a reduction in your fee.

In your shoes, I’d call your contact at the PR company and say you wanted to touch base about the event and check on Lee. It’ll be clear why you’re concerned, and your contact should have some kind of commentary on what happened that should naturally bring you to more of a point of closure about the event. But if for some reason they don’t do that, you could say, “That was a tough situation to handle — is there anything I could have done differently on my end to smooth that over? I had asked Lee if they wanted to wrap up early and they didn’t so I tried to pivot to the product, but I think it was just a rough situation for everyone to navigate.” This is really just about helping things feel more wrapped up, since it’s weird if no one talks to you about it.

But from there you should send your normal invoice and assume they will pay it. It would be really crappy of them to balk at that, just like it would be crappy if they balked at paying you because a VIP got food poisoning on stage and had to cut the night short or anything else that short-circuited an on-stage interview.

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