open thread – April 18, 2014

by Alison Green on April 18, 2014

olive smallIt’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

{ 1,095 comments }

{ 1,095 comments… read them below }

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      A little earlier today, she randomly started tearing around all 3 levels of the house, then ran under the living room chair, where she made a noise that I swear sounded just like a pig — while also panting from all the exertion — then ran upstairs and howled. When I went up to investigate what the hell was going on, she was laying down peacefully, acting like she was up to nothing.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        OMG. She sounds happy, confident and strong.
        I had a Balinese that pulled all kinds of stunts, too. I was so pleased. She was 5 when she came into my life. And she lived under my bed for the first three weeks. I was scared she was going to die from fear. (She would not eat, drink or eliminate.) One day that was over and we found out who she really was. hahaha!
        Your fun with Olive has begun!

      2. Gene*

        My three normally wait for 2 AM to do that kind of thing. Only a single level house, but they add vertical by including the cat tree, chair backs and the bed full of sleeping humans.

      3. OriginalEmma*

        My cat would make the pig noise occasionally. It’s from vigorously grooming himself while trying to breathe at the same time. It was pretty amusing.

  3. HDJ*

    I recently started a “how to make the most of your career” book club; inspired by the great discussions I’ve read on this blog. I was hoping the readers could suggest some engaging and useful books for us.

    The participants are either developing their careers or trying to make a career change (most are in their 30s). The “classic” career books “How to win friends…”, “7 Habits…”, don’t seem to carry much interest with the group. So I’m hoping to find something that has been published more recently, is interesting and has substantial content.

    I would be extremely appreciative of your help!

    1. CAA*

      Maybe try something in a different direction:

      Leading Change by John P. Kotter
      The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni
      Managing Humans by Michael Lopp

      1. Journalist (AKA Katie)*

        I’m currently reading ‘How to Be Useful: A Beginner’s Guide to Not Hating Work’ and really enjoying it.

    2. Charlotte*

      If you’d like a good managing book, Jay Shepherd’s Firing at Will is amazing. He worked as an employment lawyer on the employer’s side for years in addition to running his own law firm. Remarkably good read.

    3. A Jane*

      * Moneyball – a great way to think about analytics
      * Ender’s Game (fiction) – read about it in the context of leadership

        1. A Jane*

          Yeah! I was reading up about the book and learned that it’s used by some parts of the military on how to approach leadership

      2. Teacher Recruiter*

        Influencer is a popular one
        Getting to Yes while not a career book has been valuable in working with people in general.

    4. Dylan*

      Finding Your Own North Star by Martha Beck – I have re-read this book several times and always find something insightful in it. Good for career path as well as almost all other parts of life. Funny too.

    5. hildi*

      Anything written by Bruce Tulgan (“It’s Ok to Be the Boss, “It’s Ok to Manage Your Boss”)

      Ditto Mark Sanborn

      The Power of Habit is my most recent read (months ago) and I’m still thinking about it.

    6. Persephone Mulberry*

      “Switch: How to Change When Change is Hard” by Chip Heath is possibly my favorite business book ever. It’s not specifically a “career growth” book, but it changed the way I look at change management in the workplace, which is something I think is of value at every level.

      I also REALLY enjoyed “So Good They Can’t Ignore You: Why Skills Trump Passion in the Quest for the Work You Love” by Cal Newport. It’s a little dry through the middle, but there’s some really powerful stuff about how to angle your career in the early days to be able to command the salary/terms/jobs you want down the line.

    8. C average*

      I recently read a book called “The Smartest Kids in the World” that’s really stuck with me. It’s about education, but it has broader application to any setting where people are learning new skills.

      I’ve also really gotten a lot out of “Creative Confidence,” anything by Dan Pink, and the series of time-management books put out by 99U.com. (I know the first one is called “Managing Your Day-to-Day,” but I can’t remember the other titles.)

      Probably the business book that has influenced me most is “The No-Asshole Rule.” It teaches you how not to be one, how to identify one, how to get rid of one (if you’re a manager), and how to tolerate working with one (if you don’t have firing authority over the one in your life).

      1. Jean*

        20+ years ago I read and reread “When Smart People Fail: Rebuilding Yourself for Success” by Carole Hyatt and Linda Gottlieb (first published 1987). It offers many anecdotes plus compassionate & helpful advice for people who have to start over after a career detour. Based on a super-fast look at Amazon’s site I think that its latest edition is dated 2009; not sure whether or not it addresses our currently insanely distorted economy & job market.

        My copy had a front-cover quotation from Rabbi Harold Schulweiss (“When Bad Things Happen to Good People”) predicting that this book would be helpful to many, many people.
        I know I’ve recommended it frequently over the years. Glad to mention it here as well.

    11. Anon*

      I really liked Rework by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson. It’s a quick read but introduces you to a different way of thinking about work.

    13. Robin*

      Does “Good to Great” count as a classic? It’s basically my bible for building a strong company/organization. Don’t forget the book Alison authored, “Managing to Change the World”. (I swear Alison didn’t pay me to say this, don’t know her, just love her book!)

      1. Seattle Writer Girl*

        “Good to Great” is AMAZING! Makes you realize just how dysfunctional most workplaces really are.

    14. Gene*

      I haven’t had to job hunt in 20+ years, but when I was I found Martin Yates’ “Knock ‘Em Dead” book (there was only one then) incredibly useful for interviewing. I see that the franchise has been updated and expanded, you might want to get recommendations from someone with more current info on them.

      The one interview thing that still sticks with me is to go into the restroom just before you are going to be called in and run hot water over your right hand, dry well and keep a paper towel in your hand, in your pocket. When you go in and shake hands, warm dry handshake! Now that I’m on the other side of the table, I notice the number of clammy handshakes I get; the dry ones stand out.

    16. corner cube*

      Clear Leadership by Gervase R. Bush. Its not just a management book, there’s a lot in there about how to have clear communication with team members too.

      1. Kerry (Like The County In Ireland)*

        The Nordstrom Guide to Customer Service Excellence.
        Setting The Table–Danny Meyer (the restaurant dude who started Union Square Cafe and Eleven Madison Park)

          1. Becky B*

            +1

            I read this while in a rather dynamic (minefield-like) marketing environment and it really helped.

    17. EA*

      “Creating magic : 10 common sense leadership strategies from a life at Disney” by Lee Cockerell

    18. Mittens*

      I absolutely loved “Just Listen: Discover the Secret to Getting Through to Absolutely Anyone” by Mark Goulston. The title is a bit off-putting but it seriously opened my eyes about how to *really* listen and how to get people to open up. I thought I was a great listener, but I really picked up a lot of tricks and insights from this book. Would recommend it to everyone!

  4. Audiophile*

    Olive’s back! I kept hitting refresh because nothing happened the first time.

    No news from my interview last week, which isn’t making me feel good.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      Remember, hiring times take longer than we think they will. Mark it in your tracking document and leave it behind for now. It’s the weekend!

      Well, it will be the weekend at five o’clock.

      1. Audiophile*

        Oh don’t worry. I’m not dwelling on it too much. Still applying for jobs, looking at grad school programs. Trying to decide if I want to take online courses or traditional courses.

        But thanks for reminding me to stick it in my spreadsheet, haven’t opened that in a while since I passed 200+ apps a few weeks ago.

    2. danr*

      You’ve hit a bad holiday time, Passover, Easter and many school vacations. Breathe in and out and give it some time.

      1. Audiophile*

        You’re right. I’ve become one of those people who replays the interview in my head and thinks about what I could have said.

          1. Audiophile*

            Haha, thank you. I’ve been thinking of seeing if I can make it into a customized license plate.

            1. Jean*

              Depending on your state’s character limits, here are some ideas:
              AUDIOFILE (9 char)
              AUDIOFYL (8 char)
              AUDI0FIL (also 8 char but the “O” is really a “zero”)
              O-D-OFYL (8 char, pronounced “oh-dee-oh-file”)
              Good luck!

                1. fposte*

                  Jamie’s is apparently RTFM–evidently the DMV aren’t too up on their acronyms if that slid through!

                2. Audiophile*

                  My state requires a reason. I’d love to know, what, if any, reason Jamie gave.
                  I’m trying to come up with one.

                3. Mallory*

                  Okay, now that I’m back from googling LMGTFY (yes, the irony strikes me now) and RTFM, my acronymic horizons are broadened.

                4. The Cosmic Avenger*

                  I’m loving this thread, especially since we helped enlighten Mallory. :) But yes, I meant LMGTFY, which I adore, although I also tend to have a lot to talk about with audiophiles and videophiles. But I’ve solved problems by Googling the issue that I would never have been able to figure out on my own (or it would have taken me hours instead of minutes to figure out).

                  If anyone enjoyed learning about Reading The Fine Manual, try Googling LART, PEBCAD, orID-ten-T error. :D

                5. Jean*

                  Ooops. Thanks for bringing me into the 21st century. (Only 1/2way there, obviously, b/c no smart phone means no email or internet access unless at a computer.)

                6. Mallory*

                  Ha! I did all my acronym-googling homework as prescribed by the Cosmic Avenger, and now I also understand PEBCAK’s username.

  5. Looking for new career*

    Contrary to AAM’s reaction to this concern, most articles I read on the web suggest that self-employment is considered a black mark on your resume.

    I run a one-man architecture firm and am looking for a new career, as my user name says. What is the best way to list my job title, accomplishments, etc. on my resume when looking for work in the tech sector?

    Thank you for any tips!

    2. fposte*

      I can’t tell–are you suggesting ways to describe your achievements while self-employed, or are you asking about ways to make it sound like you weren’t self-employed? What field are you looking in?

      1. Looking for new career*

        Not trying to hide it, more looking for ways to describe accomplishments. More below…

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Whaaaat? I wouldn’t think being self-employed was a black mark. That takes a conscientious and responsible person to make it work.

      Not sure about title, though Ash or others could suggest there. I would list accomplishments the same as any other job.

    4. Esra*

      I think it depends on what kind of/how much work you are producing while self-employed.

      What kind of work in the tech sector are you looking at?

      1. Looking for new career*

        Really, this is kind of early to be doing a resume, since I’m still exploring what kind of work I want to try for.

    5. Trixie*

      Similar question but I’ve been busy with long-term house/petsitting. Great clients but no official paperwork/taxes/W-2 to show for it.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      This is why I don’t read most article on the web any more. Not trying to be snarky- the advice that self-employment is a black mark is not instructive. If that is true, it is a black mark then there should be some instruction how to jump that hurdle. I am sick of these articles that pile on useless non-advice or labor-intensive advice that leads to nowhere. (Clearly, I have read too many and suffered after-effects!)

      I think that being able to explain why you want to change and what you bring to the table is the key. I have been able to connect odd things together into a story-line that makes sense to an interviewer. What I have done is listed accomplishments that have parallels for the job I am apply for. I am trying to create a master list of accomplishments so it is not so hard to think of things for each resume- I can just pick relevant things off my main list.

      1. AVP*

        I think what the articles are trying to point out (not very well, probably) is that sometimes Hiring Managers can be a little leery of people who’ve owned their own companies because those people can get used to being in charge, making their own schedule and priorities, etc. Not saying that this applies to everyone, but it’s a factor.

        So I would also go out of my way to emphasize why you’re looking for this kind of change – you’re excited to have the steadiness of a staff job, ready to work within a team and report to a higher-up again, etc. Not everyone worries about this, but enough do that you want to derail the line of worry before it starts.

      2. Looking for new career*

        Thank you for the great reply! Yes, I’d thought of making accomplishments fit the position being applied for, and you’ve affirmed that approach.

        I’m figuring telling the story about why I’m changing careers and s on belongs in a cover letter, not on a resume. Should ssomething about this be on the resume itself?

      3. Looking for new career*

        Dang, I missed! The reply to AVP was meant to be to Not So New Reader…though thank you to AVP too!

        All of you folks are very helpful and generous. I really appreciate it!

  6. Paloma Pigeon*

    Cover letter salutation suggestions to a large national company that has a ‘careers@company.com’ address? Dear Hiring Manager doesn’t seem to cut it since looks like the national office screens submissions and this is for a local job. I can’t find a name of an HR person that would be the most likely person reading the letter. Any ideas?

    1. Ash (the other one!)*

      I would just do Dear Hiring Manager… even though it may be a while until it gets to the person actually doing the hiring, I think that’s better than the “To Whom It May Concern” or “Dear Sir or Madam” crap that my mother once told me to use…

        1. Anonymous Analyst*

          I take the opposite view point: never do Dear Sir(s). Just because others are doing it, doesn’t make it right.

    2. Stephanie*

      *shrugs*

      I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal. I omit the salutation because I think “Dear Hiring Manager” sounds goofy.

      I volunteer at the science museum periodically. A lot of the volunteers are high school students. The coordinator organized a resume, cover letter, and interviewing workshop. Most of the advice was solid (if you hadn’t heard any of it before), but there was the occasional cringeworthy nugget, including “Oh you have to go find the hiring manager’s name for the cover letter, or you’ll look lazy.”

        1. Stephanie*

          Ha, no. But then they gave that advice and didn’t tell them how to find the name, so what’s the point?

      2. Paloma Pigeon*

        I do have the name of the national HR director in DC. Is it presumptuous to address it to Dear Ms. National Director?

        1. Stephanie*

          Nah. Like Alison said below, I don’t think the hiring manager cares who it’s addressed to. I wouldn’t if I was in a hiring manager’s shoes. It’s such a minor thing.

    3. Calla*

      Honestly, if I have a company name but not a person’s name, I just put “Dear [Company].” I think it’s actually more personal than “Dear Hiring Manager” or “To Whom It May Concern” because there’s SOME kind of specific name there.

    5. kas*

      If I don’t have a specific person to address my cover letter to I address it to human resources, Dear Human Resources, (for larger companies) or the hiring manager.

    6. Ask a Manager* Post author

      “dear hiring manager” is fine. I swear to you, no one reading your letter is giving it much thought. You’re certainly not going to be rejected over it.

      1. Rachel - HR*

        This! I am one of those people that first screens applications and I don’t even give a second glance to who the letter is or isn’t addressed; unless they spell my name wrong in which case I laugh because it is clearly visible on all our postings and website but even that won’t cause me to discount a person.

      2. Mallory*

        Yes . . . we receive so many CVs when we do a faculty search that how they address their cover letter is the least of our concerns. We’re just processing all one-hundred-plus of them and getting them to the search committee as efficiently as we can.

        I have never heard from a search committee/ search committee chair that any impression whatsoever was made by who the letter was addressed to (and as the departmental admin for 8 years, the search committee and the chair have gossiped to me PLENTY of times over the years about all manner of candidate stuff. Honestly, the greeting line has NEVER come up).

        The one thing I do remember from a search from when the economy first started to decline is that a candidate’s wife called me to plead with me about their dire financial straits and how long he’d been without a job. When we did a search again a couple years ago, I remembered his name as a repeat from the previous pool of applicants because I will never forget that conversation with his wife.

        To summarize, I think you have to go pretty big to make any sort of lasting negative impression; the name by which you refer to the hiring manager or search committee is unlikely to be a blip on anyone’s radar, unless you say something like, “Yo B*tche$” or some such.

        1. Stephanie*

          [T]he name by which you refer to the hiring manager or search committee is unlikely to be a blip on anyone’s radar, unless you say something like, “Yo B*tche$” or some such.

          This sounds like a cover letter Jesse Pinkman would write.

    7. ADE*

      I do “to the selection committee at XYZ” — I assume my CL is going to get passed around a bit if I get interviewed.

    8. Stryker*

      Try the advanced search on LinkedIn for potential people in charge of the department you’d be in–that might scrounge up a probable name for you to use. :)

      1. Ali*

        A few years ago, I applied for a job that had a hiring manager with a non gender-specific name and accidentally addressed the letter to Mr. So and So. I still got an interview, but I was so embarrassed when I got there and the person interviewing me was a woman! I ended up as a finalist for the job though so maybe she didn’t take it too personally.

        1. Kerry (Like The County In Ireland)*

          As someone with a gender neutral name, I can attest you really can’t take it personally.

          1. Mallory*

            Truth. My boss gets called both Mr. and Mrs. and all manner of variations on his name: Marion, Marvin, Marlon, Marlin, Marianne . . . you name it. Nobody really pays attention to that stuff, except maybe me to laugh a little at his expense. But that lasts for a microsecond and then it’s over. It has nothing to do with the real nitty-gritty of someone’s job search.

    10. Kimberley*

      I just received a cover letter addressed to “Most Distinguished and Respectable Hiring Manager”. It is how I now wish to be addressed at all times. :)

      Seriously, for very large organizations, leave it blank. For mid range and smaller companies do some research on LinkedIn, Jigsaw, or call reception and ask. Finding a name of a real live person is the best.

  7. Cruciatus*

    Can anyone give any advice for becoming an academic advisor or if I am in any position to try for it (though I know I have nothing to lose by applying, which I will)? A university has reposted this position and I keep circling back to it–it definitely appeals to me but then I fear I’m unqualified because I don’t have any specific experience doing this (and I can’t yet verbalize why it appeals to me–just does). I read an academic advisor website that said many have apprenticed as an advisor before becoming one–I definitely did not do that. I have a Master’s in sociology which I think would be helpful but I’m early in my career and after working in libraries, I’m now an administrative assistant for a particular medical school pathway. What are they truly looking for with advisors–skills, personality type, etc. Anything anyone can tell me will be very useful to me!

    1. MaggieMae Teapot*

      I would think that the medical school pathway would definitely open some doors for you. Have you sat down with any of the advisors for your pathway for an informational interview/coffee chat? You don’t necessarily need to start *with* the medical school (advisory positions would likely require a scientific background, I would think), but if there was a position supporting them within their unit, you should have a really good shot, giving you more organic exposure to the role.

      Although, that’s probably a much longer route. Hmmm. I got nuthin’.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      I’ve never heard of someone apprenticing as an academic advisor and I’ve been working in higher ed for over a decade and all that in advising.

      An advisor needs to be a cross between a social worker who is empathetic and a good listener and a detail oriented computer programmer. Cover all of that with a skin of steel. You will hear the wildest things including the extremely personal. You will, at times, be a therapist. So, you need some of those skills. You also need to be able to dig through policy, procedure, regulations and changing requirements and not get lost. The wrong advice means a student takes a class they don’t need.

      My employer uses professional advisors as opposed to faculty advisors. Entry requirements are a bachelor’s degree and 2 years customer service. I say go for it.

      1. ADE*

        +1 (higher ed experience but not an academic advisor)

        If I were you I would be networking like crazy with the academic advisors at your current institution. My old employer in higher ed celebrated lateral moves, though there was a lot of turnover among advisors (low pay, etc.)

        I don’t think it’s a job for everybody, and you have to really show that a) you know the institution and its policies well, and b) you know how to deal with lots of nonsense :)

        1. Cruciatus*

          Thanks everyone for the replies! The problem is that the job is at another university and the college I’m at now has faculty advisors, not professional ones and the place is small enough that if I start asking, well, it might get around that I’m looking. Unfortunately, I don’t know anyone who is currently doing this.

          1. Suzanne*

            Look for groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, or via NACADA. You’ll find lots of folks willing to answer questions and give you feedback.

        2. College Career Counselor*

          Depending on the nature of the institution, a PhD can be required for being an academic advisor. Why? Because they CAN. There are a lot of un-/under-employed PhDs out there. I ran into this (admittedly some years ago) when I was applying to academic advisors positions (with a Master’s degree and 10 years experience in academic advising).

          That said, the Master’s in Sociology (mine is in a liberal arts discipline) isn’t a deal-breaker. Try emphasize any related experience you have dealing with students, giving information, etc. in your current role. I’d look for health professions advising roles for undergraduates as a stepping stone to broader academic advising. (People in those roles often work with faculty advisors in sciences, with academic advising staff, as well as in career services offices.)

          They’re looking for people who are student-focused (think advocate/encouragement/assistance), but not prone to believe every wild story that comes in the door. Someone who can empathize and assist with problem-solving, who is aware of (or can learn) the requirements for the degree/program/grad school, etc. It helps if you’re comfortable speaking to groups of students and have a reasonable degree of organizational skill and don’t mind planning events.

        3. Mallory*

          Our professional academic advisor was hired after completing her bachelor’s degree while working as a part-time admin in another department. The requirements are a bachelor’s degree and the ability to convince a search committee that you’d be good at managing all the details mentioned by TotesMaGoats.

          Our school uses a professional advisor for the detailed curricular stuff (which classes the students need to take) and faculty advisors for career-trajectory/mentoring-type conversations.

      2. Persephone Mulberry*

        The wrong advice means a student takes a class they don’t need

        Or DOESN’T take a class they do need, which is 1000x worse, especially when it’s only offered every third semester or somesuch.

    3. Anonymous Analyst*

      I know someone who is one and she had a master’s in educational counseling, which included a type of apprenticeship.

      Can you talk to someone at your alma mater or alumni association to get more precise feedback?

    4. Rachel - HR*

      Your current career path doesn’t hint towards anything academic adviser related. I’ve seen academic advisors come from career counseling backgrounds (usually in non-profit organizations) or were hired in an administrative role at the College/University and then promoted later on.

    5. Lucy*

      Does your organization have any Fellowship Coordinator positions? It could be a good experience to work with a small group of med students or fellows!

    6. SuzanneM*

      I’m a former academic advisor from UC Riverside. Apply for it. One of my colleagues says that you can be taught how to advise if you have other transferable and people skills. Most advisors I know don’t have formal training as an advisor; we just “fell into it.” Your current experience and Masters will be beneficial. They’re looking for someone who can work with people, think I’m terms of both big and little pictures, and someone who is flexible, dynamic, and able to relate to the population yet serve.

    7. C average*

      I had an academic advising job for a while shortly after graduating. I kind of fell into it and didn’t have any particular qualifications that made me an obvious fit. To tell you the truth, I can’t even remember why I pursued it at the time (other than the fact that I needed a job and it was available).

      Key traits:

      –Empathy. Each student who comes to you needs to sense that you’re in their corner, doing your best to help them succeed.

      –Bureaucratic kungfu. You’ll deal with every possible permutation of student scenario. Transfer students, non-traditional students, students trying to transition from one study area to another with minimum loss of credits, etc. Knowing how to read their paperwork, transfer it knowledgeably and sometimes imaginatively to the system your school uses, and get the requisite approvals and sign-offs where needed is key.

      –Ability to deal with big egos. You’ll often be in the position of advocating on behalf of students to people with a LOT of letters after their names, a lot of books published, and a high degree of self-importance. You’ll need to know how to work with them to reach the desired outcome.

      –Ability to enforce boundaries with parents. They won’t all be helicopter parents, either. They may have legitimate concerns about their kids’ academics or personal life, and you need to be able to clearly and assertively draw lines even when you know the parents’ concerns are well-founded.

    8. kbeers0su*

      I work in academic advising now. Lots of good advice above (ADE’s advice about networking, everything C Average said).

      There are “apprenticeships” for folks looking to get into Academic Advising. My Master’s is in Higher Education/Student Affairs Administration (same degree has different names elsewhere), and typically the degree program will require a graduate assistantship, practicum(s) or internship(s) to get on-the-job experience. So many people who end up in advising have some hands-on experience. But what others shared, particularly about working your way into these positions, is also true. Some of the best advisors aren’t the ones who have this specific Master’s degree, but rather are those who’ve worked in university administration, understand the politics, policies and protocols and can interpret these things and apply them to individual student’s situations. So sometimes it’s the long-term admin who has soaked up all this info by just being around it who can serve students the best.

      I would recommend the following:
      – Apply. Some schools do look for the Master’s in Higher Ed, but just having one may also make you qualified.
      – Learn what you can about from your current office setting. It’s in a school, and there are probably discussions being had about requirements, admissions standards, transferrable credits, curriculum, etc. Even just understanding how these things may affect a student can help you wrap your head around what the job will entail.
      – Reach out to any folks in advising who you may know. It’s not unusual to know advising staff at other nearby schools because students do transfer, so it’s in the advisor’s best interest to know how other schools operate (and sometimes who they can call there if they have questions).

      Best of luck!

      1. Lizard*

        I have a Master’s in Higher Ed and I still kinda want to get into Academic Advising although I do something totally different now.

        Anyways, like people have said there are different ways to get into this field. In your case, I would look for a job focusing on Social Sciences since that’s what you have your Master’s in or the medical stuff you are working with now.

    9. Polaris*

      I used to work in student affairs. If you’re really interested in the advising position, apply. Very few of the advisors I know earned a master’s degree in a field related to higher ed administration or completed an advising internship before graduating. Most just fell into the role.

      It varies from school to school, but some academic advisors are also expected to be career advisors. You should find out whether your institution combines the two positions or not.

      I haven’t seen anyone mention this, but if you have any experience having difficult conversations, that is a skill you should emphasize in your application. As an advisor, you may be the first person a student turns to when she or he is in trouble. You may need to deliver some tough feedback regarding unrealistic goals – like the student with a 2.5 GPA who has her heart set on going to Vet School.

      1. Cruciatus*

        I just finished applying! The due date was today (in my defense I only found out about the job yesterday). We shall see what happens. I’m applying to a different school than I’m currently working at, but I believe they have separate career and academic advisors. They have a career services webpage and on the application it lists the department/college the academic advisor would be working in (in this case, engineering college). Might sound ridiculous, but it feels good to have just applied, no matter what happens (though hopefully an interview will be forthcoming)!

        1. College Academic Counselor*

          Yay! I love what I do and I love when other people want to do it too :). This is somewhat repetitive of what others have said above, but I’d say the most important traits for an academic advisor to have are 1) empathy, 2) good listening skills, 3) high attention to detail and 4) excellent logic/reasoning/problem-solving skills.

          Someone above mentioned NACADA – they have some good resources on their website and you don’t have to be employed in the field to join. Attending a regional conference can be a great way to learn more about it and also network with people.

          I will say that it is tough to break in without relevant experience. In my area, there are enough highly qualified candidates that we would rarely look at someone who hasn’t done advising work before. This is where your cover letter becomes really really important – you have to make it clear that you’ve done your research, you understand what the job is, and you have relevant skills and you’re not just applying to every job out there. Even then, it may take a while, but don’t get discouraged! Most new people get in either by earning a graduate degree in counseling/higher education/student affairs which requires doing internships that give you work experience, or by starting in a related field. For example, you could look at graduate advisor positions; they are more administrative and less student focused, but for that reason, they are also less in demand.

          1. Cruciatus*

            Welp. Just days after applying I decided to check the status of my application and I was already moved to “No longer being considered.” I know it’s nothing personal but… damn! But I’ll keep seeing what they have available that fits my skills and see what happens…

  8. Ash (the other one!)*

    I’ve been waiting for this today. I have two questions, but I will post them separately —

    So, building off the millenial conversation yesterday here’s an interesting one. DC is having a “Millenial Week” in June and giving out awards to local prominent millenials. I got an email this morning that someone nominated me and that I’m a finalist. Given all the negativity surrounding the term “millenial” I kind of want to write back and take my name out of the running. Do I really want to be associated with the “millenial” label? I am on the older end of millenial (will be 29 in a few months, ugh) and it seems like a bad move to move forward with this, especially since I’m job searching right now. What do people think?

    1. Sunflower*

      I would not drop out. They’ve been doing ‘Top 30 under 30’ type lists for so long and I guess this is just a new name. I think it can only look good for you though!

      On another note, what the heck is ‘millenial week’ and what happens during it? I find that to be the weirdest part of it all..

    2. Paloma Pigeon*

      I say recognition is recognition. You may get some good contacts out of it. Also, you didn’t come up with the term ‘Millenial’, and by simply accepting an award nomination you are not necessarily condoning the term or not.

      I say see where it goes – what’s the worst that could happen? You get a nice award and free dinner, and everyone moves on. You don’t have to put it on your resume or anything.

      1. Ash (the other one!)*

        Problem is they want to put me on their website — so if you google me, the “millenial” label will pop up. It’s not like my age isn’t publicly out there (in fact my recent wedding announcement got my age wrong by a year so I appear younger than I am online), it just feels odd. This relates to my second question which I’ll ask below though…

        1. Esra*

          I don’t think I’d drop out, but I would ask them about why they chose ‘millennial’ instead of 30 under 30 etc.

    3. Jillociraptor*

      I’m assuming most reasonable people would get that it’s a positive recognition, not an award for having strong #selfie game and never answering the phone.

      I think the negativity surrounding the label is more about fatigue over its pervasiveness. I wouldn’t worry about having the award.

      Congrats btw!

          1. Heather*

            I meant to say the same thing the other day!

            Now I’m tempted to say “Clever girl…” when I agree with you instead of giving you a +1 :)

    4. Jubilance*

      Don’t drop out. Recognition is always great, and I’m assuming there was a large pool of people nominated. Getting the award would be a great achievement.

    5. Just a Reader*

      Like it or not, millenial is an accepted and widely used term, and I certainly wouldn’t decline an accolade because of the terminology. It’s not “30 Under 30 Biggest Losers” or whatever.

      Don’t overthink it and I hope you end up being included.

      1. Anonymous Analyst*

        This. I’m a Gen Xer, I read a lot of AAM, and I wouldn’t associate any negativity based on this. It’s just a generational label – it’s meaningless.

    6. Chriama*

      I’d say it depends on the kind of people who organized the award and are likely to be paying attention to it. If it’s organized by millenials and for millenials, stay away! However, if it’s an older generation appreciating the younger generation kind of shindig, you might benefit from the opportunity to network with potential mentors.

        1. MaggieMae Teapot*

          Hmmm, thanks for the link. I am actually now seeing your point about it possibly being negative.

          Oh, and the irony of creating your own ‘week’ by using a quote about narcissism? Amazeballs. “TIME called us the lazy, narcissist “Me, Me, Me generation”….we think it’s time to explore and celebrate all that that means.”

          Maybe you participate but don’t add it to your resume. If someone brings it up, you can explain what you learned about the experience. Or maybe participate and then play it by ear. Or win and point out during your acceptance speech that creating an award for oneself is precisely why the whole Millenial thing is a thing. And then throw the mic on the ground like in the movies. And then take a #selfie. ;)

          AAM? Thoughts now that we have seen the website?

    7. Steve G*

      I agree with you that this title is ridiculous and I personally wouldn’t go into the competition because it is so stupid. I wouldn’t argue it from the point of not wanting to be tied to a label “millenial” label, because honestly being born in 1985 is already 5 years into the generation and means you did graduate 3 years into the new millenium which is the whole point of the term millenial…but I would not participate simply for the fact of…what the hell is a millenial week?!?!

    8. TK*

      If you’ll be 29 in a few months, you’re not really in the older end of millenial, actually, as that means you were born in 1985. Most definitions of millenial are people born after 1980-ish. It’s not that you’re too old to be a millenial, it’s that millenials are just getting older! The term is so associated with “young people” that I wonder if it’ll continue to be used even as the generation ages.

      For the record, I’ll be 26 next month (born in 1988), so I certainly am a millenial by any definition!

      1. Ash (the other one!)*

        I just meant that there still seems to be a divide in terms of our generation — those that grew up with cellphones in their pockets and constant connectivity and those of us who had dial up internet until we went to college. I do think that makes a difference (see the conversation from yesterday).

        1. Steve G*

          Tiz true…..and this is exactly the conversation that shouldn’t be tied in with a “hot under 30” type discussion. And I know it is endlessly annoying to have to explain that “I didn’t grow up with internet so don’t feel as tied to Millenial stereotypes as others……etc.” which is why I’d personally opt out of this one.

          But good luck either way with whatever you do!

    9. Jeanne*

      Could you ask your boss her opinion, after showing her the website? She might have a better idea of how people in your organization, field, and city might perceive it. Good luck!

    10. Tinker*

      Meh, I’m inclined to think that the effect is likely small.

      I agree that there’s a negative association with the term “Millennial” that’s worth thinking about (for reference: every discussion we’ve had here about it), and if I won an award like that and was looking for a job in a region/industry/culture which was likely to include some number of grumps (and I’ve been there before), I’d not put it on my resume. Probably would not put it there in most cases, anyway, because meh. But in that case, I think that if googling you turned up some sort of puff piece about your accomplishments and such as a up-and-coming youth in an up-and-coming-youth city, I’d think they might grumble and eyeroll about the award, but probably not so much about you.

      Plus which, there’s the general consideration of “if it’s necessary to conceal something that evokes a prejudice, and you successfully do so, your prize is working for someone who has that prejudice.” Sometimes you want to do that because hey, money — but that sort of lifestyle choice is best made in a considered fashion. At least so I think.

      I’d think that if you go through the process related to the award in a professional, humble, and gracious manner, then the odds of alienating people who shouldn’t be alienated anyway aren’t high.

    11. MJ*

      Generational labels weren’t designed to describe individuals.
      They are generalizations which help us organize our thoughts when groups are too large to think about individually.

      Generational labels serve the purpose of grouping people together by when they were born – not the dates so much as the world they were born into. Baby boomers, for example, were born into a world where women were just being invited into the workforce, though unequally. It was a world with way fewer appliances so chores took longer to do. Long distance phone calls were expensive, mail took at least a week to get somewhere and the response took another week to come back. Their parents had been through Depression and War and so Baby Boomers were raised with a brand of work ethic that is based on scarcity while becoming adults in a period of relative abundance… Millenials were born into a world of instant communication, in a time of abundance but lousy starting salaries. Things happen fast now, and millenials have no experience of the slowness of prior times. The Baby Boomer period (’46-’64) is longer than subsequent periods. Because change is happening so fast now, children born in recent decades have a significantly different childhood than the decade before. The time a generation is born into and the generation their parents were born into affect their worldview.

      I can read about millenials in the workplace to get a general idea of ways I might need to shift how our organization operates in order to incorporate the current worldview. I can look at my millenial children and see ways that they interact with the world that are different than how I do, and I can tell sometimes that the difference is generational rather than idiosyncratic. The workplace is continually changed by each new generation of workers, and a wise leader or manager tries to anticipate and work with such changes.

      Each generation has much to contribute to the evolution of the workplace. Look how far we have come from industrial sweatshops and Mad Men offices. Prior generations made those changes happen. The millenial generation is currently shifting leaderhip to a new paradigm where there is growing emphasis on a personally rewarding work environment, where everyone is invited to contribute and have personal responsibility for the shared passion of the organization. It’s very exciting!

      Yes, Baby Boomers will complain about this trait or that, just as our parents complained about us. If the millenial generation has a “sense of entitlement” perhaps it is a positive contrast to the sense of servitude of much earlier generations. We should all feel entitled to a positive workplace experience, and the millenial generation may take us further along that evolutionary path.

      So be proud of your generation! Ignore the negative slights, because they are but one side of a coin, expressed by a different generation born into a different worldview which is struggling to understand yours.

      1. Steve G*

        This paragraph is so good, and would just close down any further millenial conversations: “Things happen fast now, and millenials have no experience of the slowness of prior times. The Baby Boomer period (’46-’64) is longer than subsequent periods. Because change is happening so fast now, children born in recent decades have a significantly different childhood than the decade before. The time a generation is born into and the generation their parents were born into affect their worldview.”

        This quickening of the pace of development does make small age differences now much larger than they are.

        For example, if you look at the changes in pop music between, let’s say 1985 and 1991. We went from “breakdancing” type beats and lots of synth pop and the end of new wave to grunge and the explosion of hip hop and rave. My younger-by-only-a-few years coworkers almost seem to think I am making it up that I remember the first set of music, because they only remember the second. But, yeah, I do remember it going from….Pointer Sisters and Chaka Khan and hair metal to Nirvana in only like 5 or 6 years, even though its totally different music. Music certainly doesn’t change so quick now, but….

        ….when things do change so quick, it’s harder to be lumped in with people even very close in age, because you don’t feel like you had a similar experience. On the other hand, my mom and aunt, born in ’48 and ’54, never discuss feeling different in age in the same way.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          It puzzles me because the life experience of someone born in 46 is very different from someone born in 60. Yet all of us “came in at the end of the war.” I think about it in terms of what high school was like in the 50s vs 60s vs 70s. There were huge social differences.
          My parents were born in the 20s and they totally rebelled against those ways of that era. My grandmother actually rode in an “automobile” which was such a horrible/radical act in the minds of her parents. Each generation makes its own modification/improvement on what we are doing.

  9. BB*

    Any good stories about people who started out working in really toxic workplaces but were able to get out into a better place? How did you know when and what to leave for? What kind of things did you use to decide if the new place was right for you?

    1. Cube Diva*

      It’s sometimes hard to tell when you’re in a bad situation, or when your bad situation crosses over into unbearable. I waited WAY too long at OldJob, and it took my mom to say, “you know, it’s almost abusive” for me to try to look at it objectively. I think a lot of it is coping strategies, because you’re stuck until you find something better, and you don’t want to admit that it’s awful. For me, I was having anxiety symptoms every time I saw my boss (and I don’t normally suffer from anxiety on a daily basis). I was also run down, gaining weight and just feeling lousy. I’m sure my relationship stalled, while I was too focused on surviving my job.

      My situation is lucky in hindsight, because I was “let go” from the toxic place, anyway. I wasn’t even mad– just relieved (and thankful we could go for a while without two paychecks)! I spent 6 weeks unemployed, job searching and really taking the time I needed to suss out the right things to apply for. It helped that I didn’t have an awful job to go to every day, but I spent full days at Starbucks writing cover letters, etc. I went through two interviews for my current job, and they were really up front about the job duties, and any potential reservations about me as a candidate. In the end, I went with the first offer I received (despite also being in the interview stage for another position), but it also came with a good gut feeling. And now I’m making 30% more!

      Good luck!!

      1. Fish Microwaver*

        Just a question, no snark. Why doi so many of you go to Starbucks to do your job search prep? Don’t you have public libraries?

        1. Stephanie*

          Starbucks has coffee and food and pretty reliable internet (and you can’t eat or drink in a lot of libraries). They’re also pretty consistent in terms of ambience, so you know what you’re getting no matter where it is.

          The quality of city libraries varies a lot. My city’s libraries are painfully dated-looking and can get overrun with screaming kids. There’s a branch that’s in a storefront in a dying mall that’s particularly bleak. I prefer the neighboring cities’ libraries or the county system. The downtown library is really nice, but the wifi is horrible (and turns into a teenage hangout around 3 pm every weekday).

          I prefer the library myself (and really dislike Starbucks’ burnt coffee), but I’m lucky enough to be in a big metro area that has decent libraries. So I could totally see the appeal of a coffee shop.

          1. Polaris*

            Stephanie nailed it. I prefer a local, independent coffee shop to the nearby libraries because the wifi is more reliable and the atmosphere is better for working: More light, nicer furniture, fewer loud children (and adults), and good espresso.

            Our public libraries are absolutely wonderful and I use many of the libraries’ other services, but I’d rather work on my job search in a different environment.

            1. Fish Microwaver*

              Thanks for the replies. I guess I’m spoilt because my public library is brand new, has reliable wifi, lots of areas with single desks, group desks, booths and rooms. Much to my disgust, people freely eat and drink in there. Totally unsuitalble foods too like shakes, fries, donuts etc.

        2. Danis S*

          I really hate job searching, so I go to Starbucks (or any other coffee shop) to make it a little more pleasant experience. It’s a way to bribe/reward myself. Same reason I used to study in coffee shops.

          I’ve gone to the library instead when I was really broke, and it worked just fine, but it was less relaxing and enjoyable. The plus side was that I could print/scan/fax at the library if I needed to.

    2. Just a Reader*

      I left an 8-year stint in a toxic workplace and 2 years ago landed in my current workplace.

      I knew when it was time to leave the day my boss told me nobody liked me. And that was reinforced the day he screamed at me in the middle of the office, in front of everyone, for something that wasn’t my fault.

      I thought about what I did and didn’t like about the work that I was doing at that time, talked to people in the field and narrowed down my list of requirements for my next job. I was far along enough in my career that these were very specific and there weren’t a lot of jobs that matched what I wanted.

      I read a lot of Glassdoor reviews, lots of news, crawled the company’s website for benefits, opportunities, culture, etc. This is a very large company so I also talked to people who worked here or knew people who did. I also asked pointed questions to my interviewers about the team, work/life balance, management/discipline style, etc.

      And I went after the job with everything I had. I ended up getting 2 offers at the same time and that helped me get the salary I wanted.

      Overall, it took me a little more than a year to find my job, but that paid off and it’s an excellent fit.

      Good luck!

    3. Noelle*

      I worked at a toxic job for three years. I’ve mentioned this before, but my boss was absolutely terrible (lots of sexism, sexual harassment, insults about my work, etc.). I knew after about half a year that I needed to get out, but unfortunately it was in 2008 and there were NO jobs available.

      On the plus side, when I started interviewing for other jobs a couple years later, I was able to recognize things to look for/avoid. I was pretty desperate to get out, but I had one job interview that I could tell would be another terrible job. The hiring manager asked me to do a bunch of bizarre tests, and didn’t tell me about them in advance so I was there until 7 that night doing 5 or 6 hours worth of tests. Then, one of the directors bragged about how they fire a lot of their employees, and was very condescending towards me. I never got an offer, but if I had I would have turned it down.

      I knew I’d found a better job when I had an interview process and the people were actually professional and straightforward. I asked a lot about the culture (and talked to someone I knew who used to work there) and used that to determine if it was a good fit. It ended up working out and it was an awesome job. It was amazing both for my career and my self confidence and personal happiness. So just because you’re in a toxic job now doesn’t mean you’ll be there forever!

    4. A Jane*

      I made the same mistake for two jobs. Unfortunately, I ended up in toxic work environments and ended previously great relationships.

      In both cases, the manager that brought me over took great pains to hide the toxic work environment. For example, I talked with only one or two individuals, and sadly, I did not immediately catch the warning signs–dodging questions, uninterested in the hiring process.

      In addition, there were serious financial issues which weren’t immediately apparent because quite frankly, I didn’t know how to ask. In retrospect, I could have looked at the annual report for the first job. For the second job, it was a start-up within a bigger corporation, so not sure how I could have assessed this (maybe someone has suggestions?)

      In both cases, it was that gut feeling of “something isn’t right here”. Unfortunately, in the first case, I wasn’t able to get out soon enough and it resulted in health problems that are now resolved. In the second place, that gut feeling was a good trigger to start job searching now since the it could be awhile before I could get out. I ended up job searching about 7 months into the new job, and was able to leave in the following year.

      Now that I’m in my new job, I know this is a good fit for me. The people are friendly, there’s some resources for professional development, and a sense of actual pride in their work. In addition, the financial health of the organization is strong. I know this could change at any minute, but it’s a good thing to know.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      I had a string of toxic workplaces. The problem was that I kept thinking “anything is better than where I am now” so I didn’t research into work environments before I applied.
      The last toxic job, I walked out without anything planned because I was getting really, really sick. (I had savings ready.)

      I know it is the dumbest thing to do, but I talked about why I left my last job when I was interviewing for new jobs. I didn’t want to end up in the same situation again so I laid it all out. After my last phone interview, the HR rep called me back and said she was hesitant, but she said she would have done the same thing in my shoes. I was invited to an interview and was given the job.
      In my “toxic” situation, there was illegal activity, sexual harassment, and HR did nothing, even when I followed all procedures and in the kindest way, brought it to their attention. So it was a bit reasonable to talk about it with future employers. It ensured that I ended up working for a legit, honest organization! (but it is risky to talk bad about past employers!)

    6. LMW*

      I had a job I loved that slowly evolved into a toxic workplace (department) for me over the course of a year — we had a ton of turnover and eventually I was the only member of the original team left. I had a temp boss who hated me and my new boss bought into her prejudice and I just couldn’t win her over (and for the record, every single project I worked on during that period came in on time and under budget). I considered transferring to a different department just to get away from my impossible-to-please boss, but I wasn’t as excited about the new role as I was about the one I was already in. I went and talked to a former team member who was on the new team about the opening…and it took her walking into my office a few days later, shutting the door, and saying “You really need to leave this department and come over by us” to realize how bad things had gotten and how much worse they would get if I stayed. In retrospect, I am really, really lucky that I had a senior colleague who was willing to go to bat for me and help me get into a position where I could prove my worth.

    7. Seal*

      My first job out of college was in an incredibly toxic workplace, where I got stuck for almost 14 years. For about the first 10 years, this job was what I did to support what I thought was my passion in the performing arts. It was stable with good benefits and enough flexibility for me pursue other things outside of work. Plus it was a job I could do very, very well with little effort, something I later found out my coworkers deeply resented. Although it wasn’t a particularly pleasant environment overall, because my priorities were elsewhere I put up with it; compared to most of my performing arts friends who didn’t always have steady work, I had it good.

      Eventually I got burned out on pursuing my passion and came to the realization that I would never be able to make a living in the performing arts. But when I started paying closer attention to my day job, I discovered that people far less capable and competent than me were the ones getting promotions and choice assignments. Why? Because everyone “knew” that I was only working there to pay the bills and had no interest in moving up. That, along with being very good at my job made me the target of a pack of bullies. Between the loss of my passion and realization that my job situation was truly terrible, I feel into a deep depression that only made my situation worse.

      Surprisingly, what got me out of my downward spiral and on to bigger and better things was my job. The building I worked in (a library) was going to be closed for a 2 year renovation, which meant that everyone in it had to be moved to a temporary location. During that time, some people basically curled up in a corner with their heads down, some people stood around wringing their hands, and some people rose to the occasion and made themselves invaluable. I pushed myself to shine and got noticed, not just by the bullies but by the few people who knew what they were doing. As I started feeling better about myself I started to plan my exit strategy. I didn’t know what I was going to do next, just that I had to get out of that place. About a year and a half into the building renovation and after I had bailed my coworkers out of yet another move-related crisis, I was passed over for a promotion most people thought I deserved so I quit on the spot. I took the summer off to clear my head, temped for a few months, then went back to the same organization in a much better role.

      In the decade plus since that time my career has taken off, albeit with quite a bit of work on my part. Getting myself out of that toxic work environment was the best thing I ever did. Granted, many people can’t just up and quit their jobs without having something else lined up; I doubt I would do something that rash today. But because of that experience, I am hyper-aware of workplace bullying and toxic environments, as well as how easy it is to get stuck in a bad job because you’re too afraid that the next place might be worse. Everyone is afraid of change because they’re afraid of the unknown. That’s what you have to get over to move to a better place.

    8. OriginalYup*

      My first permanent full-time job was like an office Apocalypse Now. I tell people stories from there (the two employees found having sex on the conference table during work hours, the coworker who cornered me in the mail room and threatened to beat me up, the manager who stole everything that wasn’t nailed down) and they think I’m making it up. I guess I didn’t really need a reason to leave, I just took the first better job I could find and ran out the door as fast as my little legs could carry me.

      The upside was that everything afterwards was pretty much a step up. It’s harder to be really incensed about someone canceling a meeting or whatever when your last job involved people leaving porn mags in the lunch room and a fistfight in the parking lot.

      1. OhNo*

        Wow, that sounds intense. Now I’m incredibly curious about what other stories you have from that job, because it sounds amazingly dysfunctional.

    9. girlonfire*

      I had a really toxic job for nearly two years that I left about a month ago. It is possible, but it’s important to keep in mind that you don’t want to leave for just anything (that’s what got me into the toxic job in the first place). I did my due diligence, researching companies, only applying to jobs I thought I would truly enjoy, going on interviews and asking questions to learn more about the work culture. I even turned down a job because I was pretty sure the environment was not a good fit for me. Keep in mind that you have a job (if that’s true) and that you’re not required to leave immediately. Just by owning the choice to stay in a bad work situation until you find a really great one can give you a lot of piece of mind. I am loving my new job, and even though it took me about eight months to find it, I wouldn’t change the process at all.

      1. girlonfire*

        Oh, also, Captain Awkward has an excellent post about red flags to look for in your interview — like, do people smile? Is the hiring manager or HR rude? Are people laughing at the water cooler, or all heads down at their desks. It was really useful to me in my search, so I’d recommend checking it out!

      2. Ruffingit*

        Just by owning the choice to stay in a bad work situation until you find a really great one can give you a lot of piece of mind.

        THIS. It’s so true that once you change your perspective, you can cope a lot better. I’ve been in a three seriously toxic job environments and there is a shift in the way you feel when you think of it as something that is paying the bills, but that you don’t have to stay at forever. If you use your off-time to job hunt ferociously, you will feel better. Just knowing you’re doing something to get out makes it easier to be in it sometimes.

    10. Bea W*

      My last workplace was super toxic, and the Big Boss had me in her crosshairs. I got out 2.5 years ago. I was at my last job 2 years and at the 1.5 mark I had a miserable and abusive client making outrageous demands, and Big Boss’ response was to toss us all under the bus, pucker her lips, and sidle up close to his @ss in a futile attempt not to lose his next contract. (The rest of us were convinced he had already decided to go elsewhere, and a sudden demand to complete our work 6 weeks early was a giveaway he was moving on). I was lead on the project and that put me directly in her line of fire.

      I worked my butt off and received not even a thank you from Client or Big Boss. Big Boss had locked onto me as her bully target of the month. I think the point of no return came when my manager told me that if I could just hang in there lay low she would eventually move onto someone else because that is how she was. She would switch targets every couple months, and soon my turn at receiving her wrath would be over and she would move on to someone else.

      It was meant to be comforting, but I was beyond appalled that not only was Big Boss a straight up bully, but that my own manager appeared to find it acceptable and that it was only a problem to the the current target and not anyone else. That was a clear signal to cut and run as soon as I could. I’d been looking a couple months already, but that was the point where I decided I was leaving and had to step up my job search from casual to serious.

      It took 4 months of serious searching and interviews. It was the best move I could have made. My new job turned out to be a great fit for me in every way. My new manager and new Big Boss were awesome (Big Boss is now the only manager). I got a layoff notice 3 months later and it was still worth it. I had ZERO regrets even knowing I’d be out of work a year after I started. Luckily things worked out for me, and I was able to stay on in my current position when another team member resigned for another job a few months later.

      I wasn’t too picky when leaving and not sure I wanted to even stay in my field. I liked the team I interviewed with. The company had a great rep, and the work seemed a good match to my experience and skills. They also offered 25% more than I was making not including the bonus. win-win! Even with the drama of aquisition and nearly losing my job it was by far the best decision. I am happy and feel challenged and like I am learning and growing all the time. I have an excellent manager who cares about her staff and being a good manager. Taking the chance and getting out paid off 10 fold.

    11. Anonathon*

      One of my first jobs post-college was … not toxic, but definitely dysfunctional. This was a well-known (in my city) nonprofit and the staff was great for the most part. But the Board was just not on the ball. They were perusing an insanely expensive project to the detriment of all else, even though everyone knew that it was not going to work. And no one wanted to be the one to speak up and rock the boat. It was nuts. I actually ended up volunteering at another nonprofit on the side — and thus knew exactly what I was getting into when I applied for a job there.

    12. SarahBot*

      I spent 6 years in my old toxic workplace – I had been unhappy there for a really long time, to the point that I would catch myself thinking, on my drive in, “I hope I get in a car accident today so that I don’t go to work.” (Which, in hindsight, was a huge sign that I needed to go.)

      What finally got me out was entering therapy after my dad’s death – part of that process was untangling some really irrational beliefs I had about life (including “it doesn’t matter whether you are happy at your job – what matters is that you have a job and you’re earning money”), which helped me see that I didn’t need to stay there any more.

      I’m really lucky in that my current job is really great and not toxic at all, but – instead of having any great recommendations to make about what to look for to determine if the new place was right – I was super focused on just getting OUT, and keeping the mindset of “if it’s not right for me, I am allowed to find another new job and leave”. (Another one of my irrational life stories was “how can you quit your job? Your loyalty should be to this company, since they’ve employed you all these years” – so telling myself I was allowed to quit and move on if the next one didn’t work out was very liberating and empowering to me.)

    13. zora.dee*

      Just thank you for this question, i am having a very similar problem, and it is really helping reading other people’s thoughts.

    14. Windchime*

      I started working at my first professional job in 1989. For many years, it was a stable and good place to work. Upper management was sane and I had a good manager. After many years, I moved to a department with a kind-hearted but ineffectual manager. I was on a team that did some amazing work and we all worked hard, but we didn’t have an involved manager. One team member stepped in and tried to steer the ship, but that person didn’t have good people skills and the team imploded.

      I moved to a different team; not because I wanted to, but because my old team was disbanding. I was put on a project with an insanely unrealistic timeline and not enough experienced IT people to meet the deadline. It was only because of a last-minute intervention by a couple of people at our sister company that we even partially met the deadline. There was tons of cleanup afterwards. My new team spent most of our time working 12-15 hour days, 7 days a week. We all cried a lot and I was so stressed out that I basically hated my life. One night I was working at home and I was so tired that I literally fell off my chair.

      About this time, our sister company had a team with an opening that they needed to fill quickly. Someone on that team that I had worked with before recommended me and they gave me a call. Because I was so stressed out, I was ready for the change and I kept at the chance. So on one day I was crying and stressed and upset, and literally 4 weeks later I was working at a new job in Seattle (over 100 miles from my home….a co-worker graciously put me up during the week until I could sell my house). I realize how incredibly lucky I am that this fell into my lap.

      I have never, ever regretted it. NewJob is a company with supportive leadership, good pay and benefits, and a realistic idea of what work/life balance should look like. I still work really hard and am challenged every day, but the difference is that I don’t feel like I am on a runaway train with no one at the wheel; this is a well-oiled machine that is being steered by people with experience and good judgement.

  10. Sunflower*

    For people who have jobs but are seriously job hunting: I REALLY need to buckle down- things at my company are spiraling out of control and I need to get serious. Like apply to at least a few jobs a week. Problem is, summer is also approaching and I’ll be away almost every weekend and have more stuff going on in general. So I need some sort of job search plan for both finding and applying for jobs as well as staying motivated. Any advice or tips on how to do this and schedule it into my life around other activities?

    1. CAA*

      Put it on your calendar to block out an hour 3 times a week. If something else comes up, you have to reschedule the job search appointment before you can accept the new invite. (Of course, if anyone else can see your calendar, you might want to make up some other name for that recurring appointment.)

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Even an hour a day will work. Pick a time when you’re likely to be less busy (but still awake).

      Then take a little time to get organized before you begin. Make a spreadsheet to keep track of all your applications, because if you’re busy, you’ll forget stuff. When you apply to a job, create a PDF of the online listing in case they take it down later (if you don’t have Acrobat, get Cute PDF Writer; it’s free). Put it in a folder so you can find them all again.

      This helped me a lot. Even though I wasn’t working when I was applying, it kept me focused because everything wasn’t so scattershot.

    3. A Jane*

      For me, the bulk of the work was related to cleaning up my resume and figuring out where to apply. Plan for the resume cleaning before the summer hits.

    4. Sasha Fierce*

      I have a full-time job and feel your pain. My motivation: I tell myself, I won’t get any calls if I don’t send any resumes! It seems really obvious typing it out, but somehow putting it in those terms to myself gives me the needed kick in the butt to get serious.

  11. Confuzzled*

    I have sort of a conundrum. I’ve come across my unofficial personnel file in my department (official one resides in HR) and saw memos and other letters regarding my performance where I’ve made errors. I was never confronted about these issues so I can address and correct them. When I approached my manager and told him I’d like it if he’d raise issues with me as they happen, he subsequently “denied” all employees access to their files from now on. When I asked HR about it, they said this is totally fine, as it is an “unofficial” file and belongs to my manager. Any thoughts on whether this is right, and also what to do if my manager refuses to be transparent with me regarding performance? I’d hate to have a negative review based on these items, especially if I don’t know and can’t correct behavior.

    1. fposte*

      Okay, they’re being dumb. But: file access is legislated state by state; even if it’s an “official” file it’s quite possible they’re not legally required for you to have access to it. (If you’re in a state where the law does provide access, I doubt that merely calling it “unofficial” will get them off the hook.) Nolo.com is one place that has an overview of laws on the topic.

      I’d worry less about the file and more about your manager’s concerns. Can you initiate check-in meetings for feedback, since your manager seems not to be doing so?

      1. Confuzzled*

        Thanks so much for the website, I’ll look into my states regulations. The weird thing is that I receive verbal praise all the time. Even my past evaluations have been stellar, it just seems that he is fixated on these minute details and seems to be obsessed with keeping track of minor mistakes, not larger pattern/behavioral issues. So as my name suggests, I’m very confuzzled. When I asked for transparency/scheduled meetings for regular feedback both good and bad I was blown off so I’m at a loss.

        1. Chriama*

          I think you just need to document your requests and his responses. Instead of requesting a sit-down meeting, send an email requesting a brief reply.

        2. MaggieMae Teapot*

          Perhaps they’re notes so he knows where to retrain you, hence why you’re not being reprimanded for them. To him they’re just educational gaps, not ‘mistakes’?

          1. Kimberlee, Esq.*

            I think this could be it. He could also be tracking errors SO THAT he can see whether or not there is a pattern… If he’s managing multiple people, it could be that he just likes to keep track of things in ways that are easy to reference later, so he’s not overlooking a lot of small errors based on a vague idea of the ‘big picture’ being fine, or vice versa.

            And really, if that’s the case, I could see him not wanting you to have access to that (if he considers them more his personal notes on your performance), and I could also see not telling you about every single mistake you’ve made that he’s caught.

            Which also makes sense to me. If they are major things that you’re doing wrong over and over, then yeah, it sucks that he’s not being more transparent with you. But if he’s making notes about minor errors and giving you good reviews, it’s probably because he doesn’t think the errors are a big deal individually, and just wants to keep n eye on things in aggregate.

    2. Chriama*

      The bigger concern is that your manager is building a file of performance issues and not discussing them with you. And when confronted, he’d rather deny he has any concerns than actually address them with you. You need to find a better job with a better manager. In the meantime though, have a conversation with him about wanting more feedback in general, and make a point of checking in with him more regularly (e.g. every other week, you email him a summary of what you’re working on and what you’ve accomplished and ask for his perspective).

      1. Chriama*

        Also, if you’re worried about a negative review based on these issues, make sure to document your requests for feedback (which is why I suggested a regular email rather than sit-down meeting). If you can show that you regularly and proactively sought feedback, it’ll be harder for boss to justify a bad review to HR.

        1. Confuzzled*

          Great advice! Thanks so much, I think that def my boss has some issues that I’d rather not be involved with so moving on might be the best option. In the meantime it’s clear that a paper trail is my best bet, so email requests are harder to look over. I’ll try that and see how it works!

          1. SCW*

            You may also what to look at how you’ve received feedback in the past. Sometimes people respond so poorly to feedback that it makes manager’s hesitate to talk about small things, and means they wait until they can’t help it. It isn’t a good practice, but look at yourself and see if you are actively seeking out feedback and responding appropriately when you receive it.

    3. Rachel - HR*

      Your HR department is correct. It is very common for supervisors to have their own supervision notes that do not go in employee’s official files.

      Your manager should have never had open access to those files so it’s not surprising that it was taken away once pointed out.

      Your manager may be documenting small mistakes for many reasons. For example, I started documenting when one of employees changed their schedule so that I would have quantifiable notes to allow me an objective view to see if it was occurring too many times (rather than my perception on certain days when I’m frustrated) . I haven’t addressed it with her yet because I’m not sure there is anything to address at this point. Similarly, it could be that someone else has told your manager they think you make frequent mistakes and your manager wants to start tracking to see if it is something he needs to address or if he needs to go back and address that person’s perception.

      The big problem here is your manager not responding to your request for frequent supervision. This may just be because he was taken off guard when you saw the notes and he’s being defensive. I would let what you saw in the file go but approach him again in the future about setting up frequent supervision (without mentioning the file).

      1. Confuzzled*

        Thanks for your perspective. What’s strange to me is that I’ve had regular access to my file before, he’s even shown me other employee’s files. It only became an issue when I noticed the strange track keeping of minor issues that was new to me, and when I asked for more regular feedback I was met with a defensive attitude and the denial of access. But I think to take away from this is that we need to get on the same page regarding performance and expectations.

        1. Jean*

          Why did he show you other employee’s files? He may have had a good reason but my immediate reaction was the klaxon-blasting bleating of my red flag alert monitor.

          1. Confuzzled*

            To Jean and MaggieMae Teapot – because he’s an inappropriate, unprofessional guy w/ discretion issues. I told him I didn’t feel comfortable seeing these documents, as I am office manager, however not those employees’ direct supervisor.

            2. Not So NewReader*

              And because he is unprofessional he is taking your comment to the extreme of not showing you anything.
              ugh. Okay guess you know are keenly aware that he does not respond well to remarks that might be correcting in nature.
              The best you can do is be a professional yourself and act like you expect him to be professional, too.

  12. Adam*

    I have a question: how do people generally schedule time off for interviews during work hours when they have to be specific for time reporting purposes? My current employer is pretty cool with approving time off when needed but it does need to be reported to the half hour of what kind of leave it is, i.e. sick leave, vacation time, emergency travel time, etc.

    How do people usually go about this (assuming of course your current employer doesn’t know you’re looking for other opportunities)?

    1. Celeste*

      I always just put in for vacation and said I had an appointment I had to go to. There are so many services you can only receive during work hours that most people won’t press you.

    2. Ash (the other one!)*

      If you cant’ do it before or after work, I usually try to do it around lunch and say I have an “appointment.” Usually that means I take sick time for it as that can be used for doctor’s appointments, I just don’t elaborate…

    3. Stephanie*

      You could just put in vacation time, right? I can’t imagine they’d ask why you’re taking vacation time.

    4. Adam*

      Yeah, I figured I’d either do sick or vacation time. Probably sick since I have that up the yin yang.

    5. Mints*

      Fake appointments usually: broken dishwasher, AC/heater, dentist, apartment inspections, veterinarian, delivery
      This is for when I plan to go to back to work after, but if it’s a scheduled enough in advance, I can just do a vacation day

    6. Davey1983*

      I use vacation time, and if pressed explain I have a personal appointment (though, I’m rarely asked why I’m taking time off). I have taken the entire day off to avoid giving explanations for why I only need an hour or two. I explain that I’m taking a day trip with my family (which is true enough, I just don’t mention the interview in the morning). Fortunately, I only had to do this with one boss.

      I know many who use sick leave, but that doesn’t feel ethical to me as I’m not sick, nor is my appointment for a doctor, dentist, etc.

  13. Random Reader*

    Woohoo open thread! I’m in a bit of a pickle… I have to be out of my apartment by May 31st but can’t move in until June 1st. The way both landlords are talking, it doesn’t seem like either have any flexibility. Has anyone run into this situation in the past? I was thinking of renting a UHaul, loading my stuff on there, sleeping at a friends house, and then having movers move my stuff the next day. I live in Chicago and I’d be moving to a new place a couple blocks away.

    *Apologies if this seems jumbled… I’m in a bit of a cough syrup haze.

    1. Celeste*

      That’s about all you can do when there isn’t any way to get in early. Good luck with everything!

    2. Random Reader*

      A follow up question- I don’t know who would be the right part of government to ask this, but how do I go about getting a permit for overnight street parking for a UHaul in Chicago? I have guest passes, but I don’t think those will cut it.

      1. fposte*

        You might have better luck parking it in a paid garage, though I’d want one with decent security.

      2. Celeste*

        Do you know anybody who has a house and would let you park in their driveway or garage? The only other idea is stay at a hotel and use the parking lot, but then you have the worry about security. Although, people moving across several states have to do that. Be sure and have a lock for it, I don’t believe they’re included.

      3. Tris Prior*

        I am fairly certain we parked ours overnight on the street and just slapped a temporary pass on it, without issue. (in Lakeview, no less, where parking’s a total nightmare as you probably know!) But, that was about 7 years ago. Maybe worth a call to the alderman’s office to double check?

        (also, fistbump of Chicago moving solidarity. Getting the timing right of our imminent move has also been a total nightmare.)

      4. AndersonDarling*

        Normally you would talk to the police precinct that patrols the area. They would be the ones who would ticket the truck. If you get their OK, you should be good.

      5. Kit M.*

        I parked a UHaul for two days and nights in Logan Square, without any kind of permit, and had no problems. Obviously I may have just been lucky.

    4. Bryan*

      Just careful where you park it, all of your belongings are in a truck that can be stolen or are just guarded by a pad lock.

    5. Ann Furthermore*

      I think this is your best bet. This is essentially what we did a couple years ago when we moved, although the timeline was longer. We had to be out of our old house on June 15th, and could not get into our new place until JULY 15th.

      But we did the same thing. The movers came and got our stuff, and then we had it stored at their facility for $30/day. It was not too bad because they would only charge for the first 10 days, and then give you the rest of the month for free.

      We stayed in a hotel for a few days, then with one friend for a couple weeks, and then some other friends for another couple weeks. For some reason I’d thought we could just stay at an extended-stay hotel, but then when I started looking into that, I realized it would be about $2500. Ack! Thankfully we had some very generous friends who opened their homes to us.

      It was the summer of homelessness, with my husband, our 14 year-old, our 3-year old, our 2 dogs and me. I will say that very few things in life have ever felt as good as that first night in my own bed at the new house!

      1. Ann Furthermore*

        Oh — and best of luck with your move. Whether you’re moving 2 blocks or thousands of miles, it’s always a huge pain!

      2. Ruffingit*

        You totally have awesome friends if they let you, your husband, two kids, and two dogs stay with you. Hope you sent them a fruit basket. Or a ton of wine. Or both :)

        1. Ann Furthermore*

          Well we did board the dogs, which cost a fortune, so that’s why I was balking at the thought of paying so much for us to stay in a hotel. But still — awesome friends! And yes, we did definitely make sure to buy them some thank you gifts.

          The first friend is someone I’ve been friends with since college, and we were roommates years ago. He still lives in the same house (although it’s been completely renovated) so it was definitely a walk down memory lane. He is pretty much the gayest man on earth, and his house is full of lovely, breakable crystal and other things. I spent the whole time there following my 3 year old around saying, “Don’t touch!” Miraculously, nothing got broken. I bought him a crystal wine decanter and a crystal wine stopper in the shape of a skull (he is very into Halloween).

          The second set of kind souls was another friend of mine from college, her partner, and their 2 daughters. So my poor husband was trapped in a house for 2 weeks with 7 chicks — the four of them, plus our 2 daughters and me. When I told my friend that I’d asked him he’d be OK with staying in an estrogen palace for that long, she laughed and said there was probably more testosterone at their house than there was at our other friends house. Ha!! I assigned the thank you gift purchases to him and said I could shop for gay men all day long, but was drawing a blank about what to get for 2 gay women. Neither one of them are super girly types. They are huge hockey fanatics, so he bought them some really cool sports memorabilia, which they loved.

          1. Ruffingit*

            Sounds like cool friends and you guys were cool right back with getting them nice gifts they would like! :)

    6. Judy*

      Could you do one of those PODs things? And pay them to keep it overnight? Or maybe several nights if it makes it work better for you?

      1. College Career Counselor*

        I’ve had ridiculous dealings with PODs, so be careful. In general, the closer you are to a major population center, the better your experience is likely to be with them.

    7. Jennifer*

      This happens every year in my town because 99% of leases do this. You end up having to rent a UHaul or storage space (if you can get any) or stashing it all in your car or a friend’s house overnight.

      1. Zahra*

        In Quebec, most of the leases finish on June 30th and start July 1st (an old law changed the end-date of leases for one year from April 30 to June 30 and since leases are usually 12 months, it stuck). Usually, everyone moves on the 1st and coordinates with the last/next renters of the apartment so your place is empty before the next person moves in.

    9. Mondays*

      I’m a landlord. They have very little recourse if you over stay a day. Sure, it is a jerk thing to do but they can’t get a court order and kick you out that quick. I’d just stay the extra day. Let the landlord yell at you. That’s all he/she can really do.

      1. Lab Tech*

        Be sure to read the lease carefully if you chose this option. There’s usually a fee involved (expensive, but potentially worth not not having to move twice and get a hotel). However, watch out for clauses that state staying over the last day of the lease constitutes a lease renewal for another term. (Apparently this has happened before in my area, where leases typically are a year long.)

      2. Grey*

        I’m manage apartment properties as well, and this is exactly right. Just go ahead and stay the extra night. All your landlord can do is deduct one day’s worth of rent from the security deposit he has. Residents do this all the time. It’s not a big deal.

        Of course, check your lease like Lab Tech says, just to make sure there’s nothing sneaky in there.

    10. AmyNYC*

      That’s exactly what I did when I moved. I kept peering out the window to make sure my truck-o-stuff was still there!

  14. Candy Floss*

    I am gainfully employed, making a good amount of money but as with any job, there are things that could be better and there are a few specifics things about my job that have me keeping my eyes opens for a new one.

    And I know I am preaching to the choir on this site when I complain about this but good lord, the process of applying for jobs is BRUTAL. I cannot imagine how depressing and frustrating it would be if I were in position where I NEEDED a job and I was seeing this kind of behavior.

    Case in point this week: I submitted an online application and received an email Weds from an HR rep saying he wanted to set up a time for a phone interview “this week” and could I let him know what times I was available. I replied on Weds with my available times for Thursday and Friday and here I sit on Friday – never heard back. It’s just SO. EFFING. RUDE.

    And it happened a few months ago too with another company – HR rep contacts me for availability; I supply it; I don’t hear back. Two different HR reps from that company contacted me a total of THREE times via email over the course of a month to get times for my availability for a phone interview and yet there never was one scheduled.

    I have been unemployed and looking for a job in the past, but it was about 8 years ago, and it just wasn’t this bad – companies were better about this stuff then. I’m not saying they were stellar at follow-up back then, but it was not nearly as bad as what I see now. The lack of respect for candidates is shameful.

    SHAMEFUL, I SAY!

    1. Calla*

      I had the same thing happen to me! Contacted on a Monday for a phone interview “over the next week,” gave a Wednesday, Thursday, and Tuesday the following week. Followed up on Wednesday. Didn’t get a response until Friday.

      I also had a phone interview a month ago, followed up after about 2 weeks, and still haven’t heard back — but the position is still showing as open and I’m still in “Interview stage” on the ATS so who knows, maybe they’re just taking a really long time.

      Fortunately, like you, I’m employed (though actively searching) so these cases aren’t as devastating as they could be!

      1. Lucy*

        When I had just graduated from college, I had a phone interview scheduled and the interviewer never called. I called her 15-ish minutes after our call was scheduled to start, and she HUNG UP on me! I was floored.

    3. AndersonDarling*

      That is so strange! I mean, I would figure that the HR rep would tell you when SHE is available and to choose one of those times.

      Sometimes I feel like they do these things to shrink their candidate pool, “Whoever is available on Wed between 1:00 and 2:00 get the interview!”

  15. Lucy*

    I need to vent for a second about online application system pre-screening nonsense. I found a job at a university that I was really excited about. One of the pre-screen questions asked “Do you have 3 years’ PR or journalism experience,” which technically I don’t have. I checked “no,” realized it was probably a trigger, and decided to change it back to “yes” just to get through the filter. Unfortunately once I uploaded my documents, the system wouldn’t let me go back, and I got a message saying that I did not meet the basic qualifications, and that was that.

    I spent two hours preparing an application including writing samples and cover letter, only to have it all rejected in a flash. Ugh.

    1. Sunflower*

      Those things are so dumb. I usually end up just checking yes because I figure I’m not sure they even really read those questions as they’re more focused on your resume/writing samples

    2. FundraiserWriterProf*

      This has happened to me before. Call the HR dept and ask them to allow you to resubmit. I don’t know how much you “technically” don’t meet the 3 years requirement but with recent studies that show most guys apply for jobs even if they are only 60% qualified (or something like that) I’d recommend you check the box to get your foot in the door. On the other hand, if a university posts a requirement like that as a check box it means they are pretty serious about it.

      1. Lucy*

        Thanks! It’s a medical communications position, and I have five years of research grant administration and events- experience I totally believe is relevant to the job. I just hate the black and white dismissal of it- I don’t want to seem like I’m circumventing their credentials, but I do feel I’m qualified!

        1. Ruffingit*

          University hiring is insane sometimes. I had a friend who was working at our old grad school in a temporary position while they looked to hire someone permanently. She wanted to apply for the permanent position doing the job she was currently doing, but was told she didn’t meet the qualifications for the position. WTF?? She was literally doing the exact same job they were hiring for and had received good performance comments and evaluations and yet, she didn’t meet the qualifications for the job. I just can’t even.

      2. Jennifer*

        I honestly think that 60% thing can only perhaps work when you are not dealing with a rigid HR computer system first. By that standard, even men playing fast and loose with how much they qualify for a job wouldn’t be getting in here either.

    3. This is me*

      I want to preface this by saying that my hope in writing this is to make you feel better, not worse.

      I work in higher education (large public university) and we have extremely rigid hiring practices. Even if you were able to get your application past the filter and wow the hiring manager, you may not have been hired anyway. Here’s why: First, for falsifying your application. Second, for not meeting the minimum requirements of the position. In my experience in higher ed, hiring managers can help set the quals for a job but may not retroactively change them after the fact.

      1. Lia*

        Agree 100%. If you managed to get past the filter, here at Large Public Research University, we would bounce your application if we did not see evidence on the resume to back up the filter question. Our filters usually have to do with education levels (i.e., do you have a master’s degree): if an applicant checks “yes” and the resume does not state “master’s in XYZ from U of ABC”, we remove the application from consideration.

      2. Anna*

        Yeah, but then it’s all in how you consider your qualifications. Do you have 3 years PR experience? That’s not what it was called, but as part of my other duties I was required to X, Y, Z, which is like PR, so I’m going to say yes. It’s pretty subjective so I can’t see how it would be considered falsifying.

        1. Lucy*

          That’s totally how I feel! I really appreciate the insight from other people who hire in the field. I don’t exactly feel justified in trying to contact the hiring manager, because I flat-out haven’t worked in PR- but I do feel if given the opportunity I could demonstrate relevant work experience.

    4. Persephone Mulberry*

      BTDT, university application as well. I got booted for not having a bachelor’s degree, despite having 10 years work experience. I don’t blame the system, but I do want to find the person who decided to put that qualifier in, and kick them in the shins.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Oh! Same thing happened to me! I had been doing the exact (rare) job for 6 years but I didn’t have a degree. I wanted to hand deliver a resume to get around the system, but the University HR Department had no contact info listed anywhere. I mean NO WHERE! I later found out they were in another city!

      2. Lia*

        I can tell you that we put it in for entry level positions to try and cut down on the number of applications we get. I chaired a search once for an admin assistant position and the hiring manager insisted we require a bachelor’s degree. I asked why, since the job could be done with software experience and customer service skills, and was told that it was to reduce the applications. Everyone wants to work for a university, it seems. We still got well over 200 applications that HAD degrees. Had we not included it, manager said, it might have been over 500.

        1. Persephone Mulberry*

          And no offense to you, because I appreciate that it wasn’t your decision, but this really, really sucks for applicants. I’d be curious to hear if Alison has any recommendations for ways to build in filters that don’t eliminate excellent candidates on the basis of a piece of paper. >/

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            Yes. Your goal in hiring is to find the best person for the job, not to restrict your applicant pool to make it a more manageable size. I doubt that opening it up in this one way would take it from 200 to 500 applications. 200-300 applications is a typical amount to get for most positions, degree required or not.

    5. Jennifer*

      Happens here too. I’m told the HR people hate it, but there’s nothing to be done. You really just cannot apply for a position unless you have 100% of the qualifications and have already done that job before, seriously. People don’t believe me when I tell them this, but it’s true.

      2. Teacher Recruiter*

        We don’t use these automatic filters at my current company, but I have seen them before. I’m not a fan of them because as a hiring manager, I want to decide what is relevant experience and what is not. With that said, I’ve found many candidates who I think place too much importance on transferable skills vs. the real time experience.

        Great example – an employee stopped by my desk this morning to tell me his wife is applying for a role with my team and how her background would be a great asset to the team and what she does now is “just like recruiting.” While the two have similarities, at the end of the day I’ll get enough applicants with actual recruiting experience that she won’t be a very competitive applicant. Not to mention they fight on the phone all the time, so why would I bring that into the office…

    6. Danis S*

      I’m running into the same problem with applications on USAJobs. For example, one question was, “Do you have 2 years of X experience with Y population?” I had the X experience, but it was with a different clientele, so I felt I needed to click ‘no.’

      I tend to be a very honest and literal person, which works against me on these applications. Anybody have tips on how to fill out these wretched things?

      1. Stephanie*

        I just honestly assess if it’d transfer over. If it does, I hit “yes”, even if it’s not the specific experience. It’s clear those things are just to screen out candidates at the application stage.

  16. Virginian*

    Yes! Made it before 10 bajillion comments!

    Earlier this week, I applied for an open until filled position at a university that has been open for a couple of weeks. I know the advice is to get your application in as soon as possible, but I’m still worried that TPTB probably reviewed and began interviewing candidates. It’s for an out of state position to boot. When applying for OUF position, what’s the latest that people have been able to apply and still be interviewed?

    1. Bryan*

      If it makes you feel any better at all my department (at a university) is hiring for a position, we posted it a couple of weeks ago and yesterday we found out that it’s only popping up on some places this week. We are going to repost on some other sites just because the other places are only showing up now. We are still in the gathering candidates phase, haven’t done a phone screen yet.

    2. Lia*

      A former co-worker was just telling me about this situation at my old/her current university. They had three finalists for two positions. After the interviews, one dropped out of the process, one was removed by the director, and one hired…so they went back to the pool for more candidates and one of those got the other opening! The applications there anyways are reviewed until the final offer is accepted, at which point the posting is closed.

      University hiring can move at a snail’s pace. It is not uncommon for some searches to take months. If the posting has only been up for a couple of weeks, it is unlikely IME that they are already interviewing! Go apply!

    3. Virginian*

      That is, the position has been open for a couple of weeks, not the uni. Looks like I need a second cup of coffee.

  17. Apollo*

    Last year during our reviews (we have a three option rating system, excellent, too much of a good thing, and needs improvement). My manager chose a lot of “needs improvement” because he wanted to see me take on bigger projects, gain more responsibility, etc. So instead of judging on my current role, he understood it as a way to show the higher ups that I have potential. Unfortunately, that bumped me down from the excellent rating to the proficient rating in the system that we use. I think I could have gotten a bigger raise if he had done it differently, since HR just looks at the final score.

    The time has rolled around again. Any suggestions on how I can address this concern with him before we submit?

    1. Midge*

      Maybe there is a comment section where your manager could say that you’re great at A, B, and C but he would like to see you add X, Y, and Z to your workload? I don’t really have experience with this sort of thing, but that would strike me as a more reasonable way of conveying that information.

      1. Apollo*

        There actually is a comment section – which is super because I’d probably be upset if I saw that there were these need improvements without seeing the reasoning behind it. For example, one of the questions is “Does Apollo consistently participate in self-development?” and the answer was “needs improvement” and the comments said something along the lines of “I would like to see him gain more experience in company-wide projects and special responsibilities.” Which is a message to upper management, not to me. But it negatively affected my final score.

    2. Steve G*

      That is totally not fair. In my job, we do our own reviews into an electronic system and our boss can change the final scores per section, but your original self-rating still appears. They can also add comments but not delete ours. I work somewhere were 3/5 is the average rating for really good employees, so to make me stand out to get more responsibility, etc., my boss gave me lots of 4s and 5s which bumped me up to almost a 4, which definitely got higher ups attentions, because they wanted to know all about who I was, etc. (since I am at a small satellite office). Your manager needs a talking to this year.

    4. AndersonDarling*

      I don’t know if this is happening there (I hope not), but I’ve been at organizations where Managers are told that there isn’t much $$$ for raises and to rate their people poorly to save money. No matter how great you do, you get a crummy review.

      1. Ed Zachary*

        +0.5 (I’d have given +1 but senior management told me to withhold the remainder)

        Not only this but I’ve had senior management say to line managers that even though we achieved 180% of goal and had a super year, everyone had to fit in a normalized bell curve so a lot of above par performers needed to be moved down to par and some par people needed to be moved below par.

        1. College Career Counselor*

          Ah, yes.. The dreaded “forced ranking,” which demoralizes high performers. (It’s like they got the idea from Alec Baldwin’s “Always Be Closing” speech in “Glengarry Glen Ross.”

          1. Kate*

            Exactly what happens at our company. The management was told that it demotivates people, to which their reply was: ‘On the contrary! It motivates them to work harder!’
            They have some really strange thought-process…

            I mean, you work hard all year around and get an ‘average’ or ‘needs improvement’? How it this motivational? (Sorry for venting. But it seems it’s not unusual at companies, which is really sad if we think about it.)

              2. Stephanie*

                My HS orchestra director had a poster in his office that said “The beatings will continue until morale improves.” Considering that he was an already kind of terrifying hard-ass, this didn’t really help to make him seem any more warm and fuzzy.

        2. Bea W*

          Yup. Policy here is everyone is average or “meets expectations”. Where is the incentive to work harder and go above and beyond if you can only ever hope to achieve “meets expectations” ?

      2. MaggieMae Teapot*

        Yup. I worked at that company for several years as a supervisor. I looooooooved telling my staff to work hard all year, just to tell them after ratings that there wasn’t a budget for merit increases, after being told by my leader that it was because there was a smaller pool of funds and the ratings were on an incredibly unfair BELL CURVE. Seriously, there were so many times that my peers and I said ‘what if everybody does well?’, to which we were told that it didn’t matter. The Company didn’t think that it was possible, so everybody had to fit in the bell curve. Even folks that met expectations were knocked down so they met the bell curve.

        One of many reasons I left said Company.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Not everyone does well? Are they saying they don’t know how to hire/train/manage good workers?

          1. Ruffingit*

            Or dump the ones who aren’t doing well?? Seriously, this says more about the business than it does about the employees.

    5. Grey*

      What the heck is “too much of a good thing”, and how is that a step lower than excellent? I’ve never seen that one before.

  18. TheSnarkyB*

    Vague Interviewer Trying to Keep it Short?

    I had an interview this week that seemed like it was going to be very brief. After he asked “Do you have any questions for me?” I had like…. 15, but I tried to only ask the 3-4 most important ones, which took up like 20 minutes including all of his answers.” Only after that, when I asked “Do you have any questions for me?” did he ask any sort of interview questions. A lot of his answers were vague and he seemed like he didn’t have much patience for me to go deeper with a “Can you say more about that?”

    What’s up with this?
    and also, if I get an offer or he calls, how do I go into the extensive questions I have? Think of it as a kind of indefinite contract position, so there’s a lot to be worked out. I’m not sure how or when I’d get paid, who is responsible for getting me work, etc.
    Not sure what to do here and I’m not in the best position to be selective, but I definitely wouldn’t take a position there knowing this little about it.

    1. kas*

      I had a similar experience. My interviewer spent 5 minutes just making random conversation and speaking about the company. She then asked if I had any questions for her, signaling the end of the interview. I had to ASK about the position! She was pretty vague and through one of my questions I learned she was only helping out the owner so she had no real experience/knowledge. Interview was only about 10 minutes …

      Maybe if they call with an offer mention you’d like to ask a few more questions you thought of afterwards? Or if you don’t want to wait until then maybe send an email?

      1. Malissa*

        Oh thank goodness I am not the only one that’s had this experience lately. WTF people? How do you expect to find the right person when you don’t even know what questions to ask?

    2. Kristen*

      This happened to me last week! I hope it’s not becoming a thing. (I was also extra annoyed by the lackluster approach to interviewing b/c I had driven 5 hours to get there and taken a day off work.)

    4. tango*

      I also find this can happen when you’re not someones top candidate. Its like they already have chosen the top one or two who they want but they have to interview so many people total per some company requirement, so rush through the other interviews. If you were to get an offer or a call from him, just ask him those questions.

  19. Bea W*

    Non-work question:
    I am going on vacation half way around the world in a few months. The flight is 11+ hours, and I have horrible back/neck pain issues among other physical things, and am concerned about being stuff into a standard airplane seat overnight for that length of time. The fact that it is overnight both ways just compounds the issue, because that involves some level of sleep deprivation, and the intenary is full and will be physically demanding for me in the heat. I’m considering what I can do to mitigate issues for maximum enjoyment and participation. I could do this type of flight just fine 25 years ago, but now…not so much.

    Am I nuts if I pay an extra $4-5K to change my flight tickets to business class now instead of taking my chances with an upgrade becoming available either through miles or at check in? Or should I take my chance at check in, in which case I’m looking at about dropping $2K if I can upgrade each way just on the long flights? Right now there are still seats. Who knows if there will be seats at check-in.

    I can afford it, but I have thrifty tendencies that also cause much appallation when considering dropping $4K vs. $2K.

    1. Stephanie*

      If you’ve got the funds, I’d go for it! It’s not worth the pain.

      Unsure on this, but do airlines have to make medical accommodations? Like if you have medical needs? Maybe that could get you around the upgrade/change flight fee.

        1. Bea W*

          The change fee is $300 in this case, which would be pretty awful for your average domestic ticket, but at the point where your tickets cost a few thousand dollars or more, it’s doesn’t make much difference.

          1. AVP*

            Oh no I just meant, airlines don’t legally have to make medical accommodations for something like this. [I would definitely pay for the business class, fwiw.]

            1. Bea W*

              I figured that’s what you meant. It was my follow-up on that thread in generally to basically to say, “The fee is so insignificant at this level, it doesn’t matter anyway. (at least not to me $300 was the least of my concern!)”

    2. fposte*

      Ha. I just came back from PT yesterday with a new set of exercises. Weirdly, plane seats are actually pretty good for me, but desk chairs are doom.

      Honestly, since you have it, I’d drop the BC money for the sure thing. If you’re like me, it’s not just a question of how sore you’d be on the plane, it’s how sore you’d be after you got off it and for how long. That’s presuming that you know business class is more comfortable for you on this particular aircraft–a friend of mine actually is less comfortable in some business class seats. I get the “OMG I could have just paid for an upgrade on the day!” remorse that you might fight, but the whole point here is to maximize comfort and relaxation.

      And if you haven’t checked out a PT for a while, try again. I find them kind of like slot machines, but my new one yesterday produced some good new stuff.

      1. Bea W*

        That’s my concern, how much discomfort I would be in after the flight and during the trip. It’s a tour group, and we’ll be out and about a lot, walking, dragging luggage from place to place every couple days. I won’t even discuss how much my back hates squishy hotel beds and pillows. I always pay to check luggage, because lifting anything overhead or having to look up is one of those other things guaranteed to set it off. I have limited range of motion in my neck. I’m always a bit of a knotted mess when I get back from traveling.

        Chiropractor: What did you do?
        Me: I was traveling. (no further explanation needed)

        I’m opposite with the chairs. A good office chair makes a huge difference for me (not a crappy one, a good ergonomic, adjustable office chair) Airline seats are the bain of my existence. I often keep them in the fully upright position, because the normal recline is at an angle that doesn’t agree with my back and I can’t sit like that very long. I also tend to sit on the ABC side, because I like to look out the window, and I can’t keep my head turned to my right more than 5 minutes without regretting it.

        BC seats either lie close to flat or fully flat and have multitudes of positioning options plus the leg/foot rests, which means I can actually doze off and not incur a permanent crick in my neck that sends pain shooting down my arms, or fall forward repeatedly waking myself up, which is somewhat amusing the first time, not as much after that.

        2. fposte*

          I think this is one of those “Why gamble?” things, then. Use the money to make your life better–that’s what it’s for.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I would go for it. If you’re going to be on a plane that long and you know you’ll have issues, then it’s definitely worth the money if you can afford it. You really can’t depend on availability–it’s just too up in the air (sorry).

      For me, it’s legroom; I’m very tall for a woman and I HATE sitting scrunched up. Window seats usually have an inch where the fuselage curves out that I can tuck my legs into, but now that I have more money, I’m sucking it up and either paying for an exit row or a better seat.

    4. Annie O*

      I’d pay the money now and enjoy being treated like a human being in business class. If you need to justify it in your head, think about how much money you’d be *wasting* if you spent your trip in pain because you’d cheaped out on the flight.

      Also, you might want to talk to your doc. I have back problems as well, and I’ve found that taking muscle relaxers on long flights helps a great deal.

      1. Bea W*

        I feel a little bit sad everytime i read this because I am old enough to remember when the price of your economy ticket included a snack and a meal, checking your luggage,and pillows and blankets were given without charge if you asked. You had a choice of meals. I was urprised to find out that now in economy international, they will give you a meal but there are no options. You better like whatever hey are serving or be willing to pay stupid money for a meal upgrade that will give you access to a couple of choices. I also recall getting a goodie bag as a child lying to Disney. Flying has become more and more like being herded like cattle, though i suppose it’s no worse than taking the bus to work except longer and more expensive, and the bus driver doesn’t constantly try to upsell you on things like a regular seat near the door or ridiculously priced snack boxes.

    5. kas*

      I just came back from vacation and was on an 8 hour flight and if I’m ever travelling for that long again, I am definitely upgrading. I don’t have any physical problems and have no issues sitting or standing for long periods of time but on a flight, my right knee was acting up and it was almost painful but felt numb at the same time. It was uncomfortable and it wouldn’t go away no matter how I tried to adjust myself and it happened both ways. I’ve never felt anything like that before and I’ve never had any issues with my knees.

      I say go for the upgrade, it will be worth it.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Chiropractor? A chiro might have tips that are tailored to your exact issues.

      My chiro keeps telling me that water is the key to reducing my pain. And it seems to be working. Make sure you are drinking plenty of water and commit to using the restroom every few hours. (Am reading every 2-4 hours.) I think just getting up and walking to the restroom gives some relief. And I do know that increasing my water intake has definitely helped.

      1. Bea W*

        I do that already. Dehydration just makes everything worse, and for some reason plane air is very drying. I usually make sure I have a big bottle of water on myself at boarding time. Those miniature ones they give you in coach are ridiculous.

        1. fposte*

          Do heat or cold help you at all? Heat is good for me, and those heat patches that you stick to your skin are great for traveling. My friend swears by cold and loves the squish-activated cold bags. And they’re both medical, so they’re not subject to TSA limits.

          1. Bea W*

            Heat is what works for me. I love those stick-on heat patches! Tiger Balm helps me especially around the neck and shoulders where it’s harder use the patches. I need to add that to my packing list.

    7. Tennessee*

      google ‘long plane ride tips’ for lots of links! something there should be helpful (i’m combing through them now for tips for a similar trip in the next year or so)

    8. BadPlanning*

      Having been on several long flights (10-14 hrs), if you can afford it, bumping out of economy is great idea.

      Otherwise, I would pick an aisle seat and get up and take a stroll around the cabin every 30 minutes or so (if you are awake). Take water every time the attendants offer it. On some long flights, when I take some laps around the plane, they’ll have glasses of water sitting out by one of the flight attendants stations so you can get extra water.

    9. AndersonDarling*

      I flew to Russia on United and they had an option for a kind of Economy Plus seat with a little extra room. I don’t think it was too pricey. But after that trip I seriously considered getting one of those dorkey inflatable pillows that fills up the space on your lap so you can just lean your head forward to sleep.

      But if you can do Business class, well, it is super swankey on those overseas flights! It is worth it!

      1. Bea W*

        I need something that will hold my body in place seated so that i don’t fall over and startle myself awake. I have one of those neck pillows to support my cranky neck, but it doesn’t prevent me from falling forward.

    10. KellyK*

      Not nuts at all. If you can afford it, go for it. (If it makes you feel better, think of it as not really being 2k, but 2k minus whatever you’d spend on more chiro appointments, meds, or whatever if you don’t take it. Plus, it seems like wasting the thousands you’re already spending on the vacation if you hurt too much to enjoy it.)

    11. Anonsie*

      Get a massage the evening before your flight (or morning of, if your flight is later in the day). It will help immensely. I’ve done this before I have a big day doing things that will aggravate my back, including before surgery, and it REALLY does the trick.

    12. Bea W*

      Update: I want to thank everyone for the advice and encouragement, which helped, and after I saw that these were the fully flat seats that kind of pushed me more toward parting with $4,000. After talking with a couple friends, I decided to change my ticket, and here’s the best part…

      It only cost me $2800 extra! The first quote the customer service agent got was still the same price from yesterday, $4000 extra on top of what I had already paid. I told her I knew already it would cost that much and still wanted to change the ticket. She then put me on hold again to communicate to whomever to book the ticket, and when she came back she had great news. She was able to book the ticket at a total cost of $4200, and that meant I my additional cost was now down to $2400! I was ecstatic. Upgrading at check-in would have cost me as much as $900 each way on the international flights, and would not include upgrading my connecting domestic flights (which are short hops, so I don’t care). Now I am traveling first class on my domestic connections and business on the long haul international flights, and I am very excited. I really enjoy the frivolity of international business class. I used to travel a lot in a former job, and still fly domestic at least twice a year for fun trips. After spending so much time in cattle class, I feel so pampered when I get to fly in the swanky section of the plane, and you get your own speedy short lines at check-in, security, and boarding, which is super awesome for international where the lines are ridiculous. (Though I kind of feel guilty like it’s cuttsies, and no one likes a line cutter!)

      SQUEEE!

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        We booked those seats — the ones that lie fully flat in business class — on our honeymoon and had a similar thing happen with the price, and it was WELL WORTH IT. We didn’t want the flight to end, actually. (However, we’re now totally spoiled and don’t want to fly coach ever again, which isn’t exactly feasible.

        1. Bea W*

          That’s the biggest downside. I flew once because it is the default mode of traveling for business where I work if it is an international flight greater than 6 hours. Now I will be forever tormented by what I know I am missing every time I fly. I don’t even care about the other amenities. I bring my own food and drink (okay, I can’t bring the ice cream) and entertainment. I’d be happy with just the seat, pillow, and blanket. They could call it Bed Class.

  20. NoNameForThis*

    Only semi work related but thought this nice group of people can help! My friend is going through a really rough time- I think she needs to see a therapist but she keeps deflecting when I bring it up. She lost her job- she wanted to quit but ended up being asked to leave and is now unemployed. She is struggling with that a lot as well as a very strong negative body image. She was recently diagnosed with a disease that causes crazy weight gain. She texts me almost everyday to complain about something and I try to be supportive but honestly, this is completely out of my control- I truly believe nothing I say can change her way of thinking and only a counselor can help her. I’ve read every article about how to convince a friend to get help. When I asked if she’s thought about seeing someone, she doesn’t even address it and acts like I never said it at all. I know it’s not money because she has mentioned before she is not worried about paying bills, only about figuring out what she wants to do with her life. She knows I see a therapist and I’ve been very open with her about how helpful it has been. She was very happy for me when I started to see someone so I don’t understand why she is rejecting this so much. I’m struggling because I really do care and want to help but I’m tiring of her complaining all day, every day and not doing a thing to change it. I’m on my last leg here! Anyone have experience with this?

    TL:DR- how do I convince my friend to at least think about seeing a therapist

    1. fposte*

      You know the answer is “You can’t,” I bet. There’s really no way to make somebody else do something if they really don’t want to.

      If she’s a good enough friend, though, you can try to have a real conversation about this: “You sound so unhappy, and I can’t help you in the way that I’d like to be able to. Is there a reason you don’t want to see a therapist, or is there an obstacle to going that I can help with?”

      And I think you can bow out of supporting every repetition of the same complaint; it might also be helpful to find positive, costless or low-cost things you can do together and see if that gives you two something else to talk about.

      1. Customer Service Quality*

        I like this.

        There’s also the “what do you think you’ll do about that?” response if she is complaining about the same thing over and over.

      2. AndersonDarling*

        That was exactly what I was thinking. Sometimes people aren’t ready to change. They will eventually get there, but you can’t do anything to speed up the process.

      3. NoNameForThis*

        You are so right. I know the answer is that I can’t but of course, i can’t stop trying. I really like what you said about what to say to her. It will at least force her to acknowledge what I’ve suggested. Unfortunately she is a college friend that lives 1,000+ miles away so our communication is mostly over the phone. But I also agree that I’m going to stop supporting the constant same complaints. Maybe just answer with a “I’m sorry, I wish I could help’

        I think I feel an obligation to her because in college I was going through a really tough breakup and she listened to me complain about it over and over again. However, I also started seeing a therapist during that time and that was really the main thing that got me through it so you can see why I think she would majority benefit from it

        1. Not So NewReader*

          You can point that out to her that you know you were complaining too much so you sought professional help.

          Really, friends don’t use friends as dumps. “Here let me dump off today’s problems so I can keep doing the same thing tomorrow.”
          Insist that she has a quality of life issue that must be addressed by a professional.

      4. C average*

        My father-in-law the psychologist has a favorite joke: “How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb?” “Just one, but the light bulb has to WANT to change.”

    2. Bryan*

      I think fposte has some good wording to bring it up.

      You can also tell her that her complaining is exhausting you. Friends are there for each other but that doesn’t give her a license to kill.

    3. BadPlanning*

      Do you have any mutual friends? Maybe one of them should suggest the same — not that you should gossip about the trouble friend — but sometimes you need to hear a suggestion from fresh ears before it starts to sink in.

  21. Dana*

    I was wondering what the best techniques for training customer service are that others have come across?

    I work in a call center type environment and we do a pretty basic Customer Service / Dealing With Upset Customer slideshow during the initial training. I don’t know if its the weather, the economy or just the toll of work, but we can not seem to get our reps to provide the outstanding, outgoing customer service that is required. We audit calls and work on tone, empathy, ect but what can we do to really motivate them? They aren’t being rude, just not overly friendly or caring.

    I was wondering what other companies turn to.

    Thanks!

    1. Sabrina*

      I’m not a trainer or anything, but I’ve had 2 call center jobs. One didn’t even have a slide show about irate customers. The other had a whole day of training devoted to it, with role playing and handouts. Plus review every day for the rest of training of that and all topics.

    2. kas*

      I’ve worked for a company that had two meetings a month, with your manager. You were marked/graded on calls and knew those grades affected raises/promotions/etc so everyone worked on their tone, empathy etc. Plus you didn’t want your manager to tell you the same thing every month so you always tried to improve. The environment was also pretty easy going and laid back so it’s not like we necessarily dreaded going in every day.

      Maybe it’s also the hiring process? The managers where I worked seemed to pick the same type of people/work ethic somehow. Everyone was pretty friendly on calls even if we hated working in a call centre environment or the customer we were speaking to. Also, are there enough associates? Are they taking back-to-back calls or do they get a breather? I know that when it was busier and the calls were constantly coming in, it definitely affected our tone.

      1. LPBB*

        You touched on one of my pet peeves. There is a perception that customer service is a job that anyone can do because it’s just common sense. That’s not actually true. You have to have a certain mindset to do the job and not everyone has it or is willing to develop it. I did customer service for YEARS before I got into the proper headspace to be good at the job. I think too many companies hire and train with this thought in mind and then are shocked by a poor outcome.

        For the OP: I agree with Steve G about empowering your CSRs if at all possible. Also, do your CSRs feel as though their supervisors have their backs? There is nothing more dispiriting than trying to enforce a policy with a customer only to have your supervisor give in to the customer’s demands when the call is escalated.

    3. Customer Service Quality*

      How are they rewarded (with good evaluations, bonuses, swag, etc.)? In my experience, you get the behaviour you reward.

      Also, Corporate Executive Board has a series on reinventing the customer experience – if your company is a member, I’d check it out.

    4. Steve G*

      I was a CSR for about a year at 2 different places….the trainings were not adequate so my #1 peice of advice on training is: Don’t not get into the technical details of the job and keep saying “those will come later.” It doesn’t matter if a CSR is polite if they can’t help a customer.

      But this doesn’t sound like a training issue. CSR reps used to make good money but their rates have been the same for years, so the jobs are attracting less experienced and professional candidates, from my experience. My friend manages a 20 person call center and his biggest issue is finding people with business acumen, great communication skills, etc. etc. who would work for only $14-16/hr in NYC, which is like minimum wage here. Maybe your company needs to look into compensation and bonus structures?

      Let me tell you, in my office, the lowest paid person makes around $45K and when we have to do seasonal outbound call “campaigns” and have alot of phone calls going on, everyone is super upbeat, helpful, and professional, and cheerful. That is mostly because they aren’t sitting there thinking about where they can find a lunch they can afford or how to make rent.

      Also, many call centers have rediculous behavior rules (counting bathroom trips, can’t be 3 seconds late) that may need to be dropped at your organization.

      1. Steve G*

        You also need to look into whether you give CSRs the actual tools to help customers. If every little decision needs to be escalated to a MGR, and the MGRs don’t like escalated calls….then the CSRs are going to be nervous all day, hoping the callers don’t want something too complicated. If they are empowered to actually help customers (for example, you let them give out sales + refunds up to a certain $ amount) they might feel more powerful and be more cheery/confident on the phone.

        1. OriginalEmma*

          +1. I worked in the call center of a Medicaid HMO performing outbound outreach calls. We were graded on numbers. How many calls we made and how many of those calls resulted in talking to the beneficiary. Which is a problem when your beneficiary group is almost exclusively made up of low-income individuals whose phone numbers constantly change due to using cell phones.

          We were hounded to make the calls and slammed by our VP for not succeeding, and when we explained that we couldn’t make the cut because so many numbers were disconnected/wrong, her response was “Don’t bring me problems, bring me solutions.” I understand that no manager or executive wants complaints without solutions but c’mon…how are call center weenies supposed to solve that problem?

          I left after a year and 1 month at that job.

      2. Kelly L.*

        I’m going to second this. I worked at a telefundraising office, which is similar in some ways and different in others from a call center, and you could cut the financial anxiety with a knife. And there were always weird control issues about the restrooms, which sucks when you have to drink tons of liquid just to not lose your voice talking all day…

    5. Jennifer*

      Well, call centers are generally considered to be one of the circles of hell because the employees are being paid to be screamed at on the phone. What on earth can you do to motivate them besides threaten to fire them and thus they lose the paycheck? I can say from some related experience that getting yelled at a lot is what did it for me. Even when I am trying to be nice, apparently I have “bitchy resting voice,” so I got into trouble a lot for “not caring.”

      Now I answer the phone in SUCH a perky way that it makes me want to gag, but it makes customers happy. I think you’ll need to drill it into them that they can’t be “themselves” on the job, they need to be fake perky and happy at all times. Create a fake personality, if you will.

      Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go be fake perky and happy again for the next four hours…

      (This sounds like I’m being mean or snarky in this answer, but I’m really not. This is exactly what I’ve had to do to stay employed.)

    6. AVP*

      I worked on a documentary about outstanding customer service a few years ago. What we found (from asking people who are with the absolutely best brands in the world for this) is that they key to great customer service are:

      1. Hiring the right people. I know it’s a call center, but do you hire people who demonstrate empathy and professionalism? Not everyone can be trained into that.

      2. Rewarding it. Both in terms of actual tangible rewards (bonuses, etc.) and not penalizing them for going out of their way (are you both asking people to provide great customer service but also grading them on how many calls they can take per shift? That ain’t gonna work.)

    7. EA*

      If you do customer feedback surveys, let your customer service reps see the feedback direct from the customers. If your survey has a way to provide free-form feedback, that’s even better. Let them see both the positive and the negative, but if there’s a negative comment, remove any information that can identify the individual rep, and speak with them privately.

      Also, if you have sample calls you can let them listen to, play an example of a “bad” call, an “ok” call, and an “excellent” call, without identifying them as such, and see if they can pick out the “excellent” call, and what makes it “excellent”.

      And, a second to the commenter that mentioned empowering your employees. When I was a front desk clerk at a hotel, I was empowered to compensate guests up to a certain amount without needing approval from a supervisor or manager. If I wanted to go higher than that, the supervisors and managers usually wanted to talk to the guests as well, but they would back me up and issue what we felt was fair compensation to the guest.

  22. Ash (the other one!)*

    Question 2 —

    This relates to being known as a millenial as well as issues of prejudging skills based on age rather than experience.

    How do people feel about leaving graduation years off of the resume? I had one recruiter skip over all of my experience to look at when I graduated college to say “oh, 7 years out, that puts you at a level X.” I’m thinking if I leave the years off they actually have to look at me as a whole package at least in initial review.

    My age is publicly out there and they could easily figure it out based on my work experience in different cities (I worked for my college and then my grad school), but I think its a huge “hi, I am only 28” flag to have when I got my BA and my PhD on my resume.

    1. Virginian*

      I know that some older people leave off their graduation years on their resume, but honestly, I wouldn’t worry about it. If you get to the in-person interview stage, they’d probably be able to guess your age range and if they wanted to put you out of the running, they could do so after that. Or they could eliminate you from the hiring process for having a Ph.D and being overqualified (in their opinion.) Let your work history and accomplishment speak for itself.

    2. Alicia*

      Right there with you. I am 28, with a BSc and a PhD. I ended up with a job that is a reach, so I feel like I’m playing catchup. Everyone knows I am around 30 and this is my first job, but I work in an interdisciplinary field where a lot of my colleagues didn’t have their PhD until 35 or so, and they have 5 – 10 years experience… so I feel the age difference sometimes.

      I’d leave the dates on anyway. It seems weird not to, especially if they’re recent (maybe if you’re 45+ and graduated 20 years ago I could see it). Also, if you’re in academia, or tangential to it, dates matter. If a question like that comes up with a recruiter again, just try re-focus it back to your experience.

      1. Bryan*

        I would find it weird too, especially when you’re younger as education is considered more relevant by employers. It comes off as trying to hide something.

    3. GoodGirl*

      I graduated with my B.A. in 2005 and I no longer include the dates on my resume. I’ve got enough work experience by now and haven’t had one inteviewer ask me about it.

    4. meesh*

      When I started applying again, I pulled my year off my resume. I’m only 3 years out and not looking for entry-level anymore. With my year on it (2011), I was being suckered back into entry-level. Much better with it off.

      1. ec*

        I’m also three years out with no date listed on my resume.

        It’s pretty obvious from my resume when I graduated so I don’t feel like I’m hiding anything, but on the other hand, I feel like when people see the year they are automatically calculating my age, which I don’t like.

    5. Agile Phalanges*

      Wow, that’s kind of a crappy way to calculate what level someone begins at. How about actually figuring out how many years of actual experience someone has? I got an entry-level accounting job without any college education (well, less than a years’ worth), and worked my way up through responsibility, decided to get a degree, and after many years of hard work with a full-time job, part-time education, and half-time kid (shared custody), I graduated. Then left accounting for a different career path within months of graduating. If someone calculated years since graduation as my number of years of experience in accounting, they’d be doing it wrong.

  23. C*

    Five weeks after my state gov’t interview…I got an offer!

    I accepted today and they’re actually sending me paperwork next week so I can be drug tested. Wasn’t actually expecting that, but whatever. Once that comes back clean I will get the official offer.

    They are willing to let me wait until June to start. I am currently interning with a federal agency and we have field work scheduled, plus I’ll be relocating to another state. But I’m moving 3 months sooner than I had anticipated which is GREAT because now my LDR no longer has to be LD!

  24. Sabrina*

    I’ve been going back and forth with a company I applied to a couple of weeks ago. I have a conference call with the hiring manager on Tuesday. (their words) The first thing I got from them was a list of questions, similar to what they’d ask in a phone interview, but they sent it via email. One question was ,”What is your expected salary?” and I answered, “Depending on what the full job entails, I’m willing to negotiate, but I’m looking around $X.” A couple of days ago they updated the job posting which now has a salary range. The range is $X – $X+10K. Am I SOL on this one if it comes to negotiating more money?

    1. fposte*

      I think you’ve covered yourself reasonably to ask for more there. You’ll know the job better, know what you can bring to it that puts you higher in the range, etc. It may make it slightly less likely that you’ll get it, but I don’t think it prevents you from asking.

  25. A Jane*

    My question for this week came out of the AAM AMA this past week (wooooo so many A & Ms)

    Does anyone have any recommendations on courses finance for non-finance? Online courses are cool, and in-person classes around the New York area would be great as well.

    1. Anne*

      Check out Coursera and edX. They’re free, online classes offered by major universities (Berkeley, Harvard, MIT, Cornell, etc.)

  26. A regular going anon*

    Would love any advice for managing around and helping my team deal with people who are “protected” in some way.

    My company has recently had some shakeups in senior management and one particular person who’s been brought in as a change agent has been bringing in people he likes. I realize he’s here to change things — that being said, sometimes the people he brings in are causing friction because they don’t want to get the day-to-day work done. Fortunately, none of these people is in my direct line of reporting (yet!), but my direct reports and (to a lesser extent) I have to work with them.

    My question is twofold: In the likely event I have to manage one of this person’s handpicked people in the future, what advice do people have for managing someone when you can’t attach the same level of consequences for bad behavior that you normally would? (Especially if they know it!) And what advice do you have for how to help my team members interact with these people, knowing again that we can’t complain too much?

    I do have some thoughts, and have been devising what I call “elaborate coping mechanisms” for the latter scenario, but I would love more ideas (and am especially interested in how to handle the former scenario, when and if it happens to me).

    1. Celeste*

      I think all you can do is get on board with HR’s requirements for putting someone on a PIP. It’s a lot of extra work to track them, but you may be able to turn your documentation into consequences.

    2. Annika*

      Engage with them! Motivate them by showing the relationship between the smaller day to day things and the broader goals they want to achieve. Encourage them to become part of the team.

    3. Aisling*

      Honestly, if I were on your team, there wouldn’t be a positive way to spin things for me. What I would hear and see is that there are people being treated differently, and the job is no longer about qualifications or hard work, but about who you know. I would be looking for another job.

      I think you should try to speak to your boss about the how much the situation is going to lower morale, if it hasn’t already.

  27. Lily in NYC*

    I’m struggling to find a “weakness” if asked in an interview. The only negative comment on recent reviews was that I can be “too helpful” – I think that would make me look like I was trying to do one of those negatives that make me seem virtuous (like when people say they are a perfectionist). I am an executive assistant who hates event planning. Would it be terrible to say that event planning is not one of my strengths? I’m worried it will make me look unorganized. I’m actually good at it but I hate it with a passion and tend to procrastinate and work on other stuff first.

    1. Calla*

      Did your review give a concrete example of “too helpful”? You can just add that (“Sometimes I’m a little too helpful; for example, a manager commented [blah blah blah]”), so it’s obviously you’re not doing the perfectionist thing. I think that could be a good one actually (disclaimer: I’m not a hiring manager).

      1. Lily in NYC*

        I do know what was meant by it (people always ask me for little favors that add up to a lot of time because I’ve been here for so long and have a lot of institutional knowledge). I also got positive comments on the same review for being so helpful, which made me laugh. I stink at interviewing job candidates (I handle admin hiring) and I’m thinking of using that instead because I can show how I’ve taken steps to improve. I would feel weird saying that about being too helpful – what would I say? “Hey, I don’t help anyone now, I just tell them to bite me”.

        1. Colette*

          So it’s not that you’re too helpful – it’s that you let your desire to help take your focus away from bigger priorities, is that it?

        2. Calla*

          I think what Colette says is spot on (and this is a common problem imo! I do it too!). “I love to help my co-workers, but sometimes my willingness to help with everything gets in the way of focusing on more important priorities. I am learning/have learned to better delegate and prioritize.” Interviewing would be good too, since you can say how you’re improving on it.

    2. Bea W*

      god I HATE this question! I wish people would stop asking it. Maybe the weakness is that there are certain parts of your job that you just really dislike and because you dislike them you know you have a tendency to procrastinate about doing them, and then talk about how you deal with that. and you can use event planning as an example.

      1. Bea W*

        PS – this is definitely a weakness I suffer from! Putting off the stuff I dislike and getting side tracked on other things that are not as important but that I enjoy more.

        1. Lily in NYC*

          LOL! I hate this question too, but not as much as “where do you see yourself in 5 years”? I really want to say that I have no ambition and hope that I’ll magically win the lottery and not have to work by then.

    3. Sunflower*

      When I sat down and tried to honestly think of what my weakness was, it’s is exercising authority over other people. For jobs I’m applying to, they still aren’t management level so it’s not terribly important to the job at hand. I tell that that although it’s my weakness, as I’m getting more exposed to management, it’s becoming easier(and all of this is true!)

      1. Sunflower*

        Also, I’m an event planner so organizing is very big in my job as well. I have a lot of trouble picking just one organization system to use so maybe a weakness is you are always re-oganizing things. that does border virtuous territory but it also makes sense

      2. Lily in NYC*

        That’s a great idea Sunflower! One of the reasons I am a career executive assistant is because I don’t want to have accountability for “the bottom line” so I could definitely use that angle. Thanks a lot.

    4. Jubilance*

      Everyone has weaknesses and that’s ok. Can you talk with a trusted mentor or coworker who can give you honest feedback as to what they think your true weaknesses are?

      1. Lily in NYC*

        I know what my true weaknesses are but I would NEVER tell them to an interviewer. I am able to overcome them through sheer force of will and a strong work ethic (example: I am not naturally organized but have to be because I’m an assistant). I’m also super-lazy but I don’t allow myself to be lazy at work and I excel at my job. But no hiring manager would take a chance on me if I were blatantly honest.

        1. Sunflower*

          Haha laughing along because both of those things are my secret biggest weaknesses and I do the same thing and force myself to do it.

        3. Jubilance*

          Actually I think that’s the stuff you SHOULD be saying. It’s more compelling. Managers already know the game people play with using something “good” as a weakness like “I’m a workaholic”. What’s more meaningful is highlighting a real weaknesses and what you’ve done/are doing to address it. In this instance, you saying “I’m not naturally an organized person, but I’ve learned x y and z which have helped my organizational skills improve” is a great thing to say. I think AAM has actually done a post about this too.

    5. Sadsack*

      I had this prepared for a recent interview, but they didn’t ask that question. My job requires constant juggling of deadlines. I was prepared to say this: In the past, I have at times realized that I was sacrificing accuracy for speed in my work. This hasn’t resulted in any major issues – no huge errors and no missed deadlines, just some minor – but I have since realized that I need to better manage time to try to avoid minor errors and keep up the same pace of workload. I have analyzed and revised certain personal processes to be able to do this and so far it is working.

      1. Sadsack*

        meant to write minor errors (such as overlooking the need for documentation, and transposed numbers (which can be bad!).

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I really like this. It rings true rather than sounding like BS, and you explain that you recognized it and what you now do to avoid it. You sound self-aware and proactive. The mention that you’ve “analyzed and revised certain personal processes” sounds credible, and like you’re someone reflective. It’s good.

    6. Jennifer*

      I think the whole point of that question is to see if you are smart enough to toe the company/PC line and not give an honest answer to it. I would only say event planning isn’t a strength if it is something you would never have to do on the job–otherwise it’s a reason not to hire you.

      I think going with “too helpful” as in “I got derailed trying to fix someone’s life for a half hour” is possibly(?) a better answer than that. But proceed with caution.

        1. Sadsack*

          Dare I ask you to comment on my suggestion upthread? I didn’t have to divulge a weakness, but if I had said the above, would it have reflected poorly on me?

    7. Steve G*

      Maybe something little like “I’ve gotten in trouble a few times by giving TMI in emails or phone calls. I’ve got to learn to simply give people the info they want and not volunteer to much else, and let them ask me if they want it.”

      Well, that’s a simple one that I could say about a coworker that wouldn’t make you sound bad, as all of us could have said it about ourselves at one time or another.

  28. CollegeAdmin*

    I’d like to give a shout-out to AndersonDarling and Dan from Tuesday’s “talk about your job” thread. I really appreciate the two of you taking the time to talk about what you do, and especially Dan for taking a look at that masters program I was considering. After some thought and further research into other programs, I’m officially applying to SNHU for a masters in Data Analytics – a well-established program with a solid career center, technical courses, and a culminating capstone project. If all goes well, I’ll be starting this summer. Thanks, guys!

    1. AndersonDarling*

      Oh my goodness! Thank you for the shout-out!
      I feel so cool!

      Good luck, CollegeAdmin!!!

  29. LizB*

    After a successful phone interview last week, I realized that the interview question I have the hardest time answering is the “Tell me about a time you had a disagreement with a co-worker, and how you resolved it” question. I’ve gotten it in basically every interview I’ve done, and I can never think of a good example! I’m very easygoing, and I tend to change what I’m doing to accommodate other people’s preferences and try to head off any disagreements before they really start. If I really can’t change my methods for some good reason, I’ll go to my coworker and explain why I do things the way I do, and usually they let it go at that point. Does anyone have any tips for answering this question, or for coming up with examples to use when you have a very accommodating/avoidant approach to conflict?

    1. fposte*

      I think that’s a fine answer. I’d think it was funny that you just explain them into submission.

    2. Jillociraptor*

      When we ask this question, we’re looking at how well (including how respectfully) you influence others’ actions. Can you make a compelling (logically and socially) argument, and balance finding a solution that works for the greatest number of people and still gets the job done? It’s not really about dealing with a huge blow up, but more about can you smartly argue your position and bring others on board.

      There’s some solid stuff in your answer, but you won’t want to frame it as “I prioritize avoiding conflict over getting to the best solution.” Instead try to focus on how you listen to others’ perspectives and try to incorporate them in your solution.

    3. C*

      I think being honest is best. Explain that you are accommodating and easy to work with, and in order to avoid major conflicts you make sure to keep open lines of communication. But you will still need an example.

    4. Christina*

      I think what you described is a great answer – can you think of an example of when you demonstrated those tactics? For example, you might say, “I was working a project with Jane and I know that she usually likes to handle X by doing Y. For this particular project, however, Y wouldn’t work because of —. I handled this by talking to Jane and explaining that Y wouldn’t work because…”. Then be sure to include the result of that situation – maybe it was as simple as Jane understood and you moved forward and the project went on to be a success or maybe it was Jane preferred to do Y and then talk about how you managed that and issues resulting from that.

      I think the main goal of the question is to see that you know how to approach your co-workers and work through things without being stubborn, flying off the handle, or automatically escalating things. Good luck!

    5. MK*

      I hate that question too! You seemed to have answered your own questions when you said, “I’m very easygoing, and I tend to change what I’m doing to accommodate other people’s preferences and try to head off any disagreements before they really start. If I really can’t change my methods for some good reason, I’ll go to my coworker and explain why I do things the way I do, and usually they let it go at that point.” You just need to think of a specific example to show how you resolve disagreements.

  30. Kristin*

    I have a phone interview this afternoon with a non-profit (only every worked for-profit sector) that seems pretty awesome. Any suggestions for making the switch?

    Also, from researching the company, looks like they’re also hiring for the person who would be my manager, which is making me leery. Anyone have any suggestions for how to handle a hiring process when you don’t know who your manager would be? Questions to ask etc?

    1. money lady*

      Be prepared for a culture shock. I went from working only for profit to non profit 10 years ago and there are still things I can’t wrap my head around. We are a social services agency and one thing that really gets me is the unwillingness to fire under-performing employees. There is much hand-wringing because if we fire them, they won’t have a job, etc. etc. Sometimes they forget that even though its a nonprofit and the emphasis is on our mission, not the bottom line, IT TAKES MONEY TO ACCOMPLISH YOUR MISSION! Also, you have to kiss the butt of every funder no matter how they treat you or speak to you because they hold the purse strings.
      That said, there are many perks as well. At least where I work we dress very casually and are very family friendly.

      1. COT*

        I have worked at both for-profits and non-profits that don’t deal well with underperformers, and ones who do. I don’t think it’s representative of the entire industry to say that it’s filled with poor employees that no one will fire. That said, I do think that many nonprofits take a human-centric approach to their work. That might mean that your mediocre coworker gets more chances to improve and more kind coaching than they would at some other companies, but it also means that the same grace is extended to you when you make a mistake or are learning a new aspect of your work.

        It’s not true of every workplace, but I think it’s generally accurate to say that most nonprofits have fewer resources for training, travel, etc. than many for-profits do. Be prepared for modest budgets, lower raises/bonuses, etc. even if the pay is competitive (and it’s often not in comparison to other sectors).

        That said, there are a lot of benefits: working towards a meaningful mission, getting to be creative and wear lots of hats when resources are a little lacking, and generally a concern for staff happiness and well-being.

        Overall, though, I don’t think any two non-profits are alike any more than any two for-profits are alike. Look at each organization separately, just as you would in any other field. Good luck!

      2. Hunny*

        While I have seen what you describe, and it is common, its not universal. If you have good leadership, then your nonprofit will be well run, including holding people to a high bar, focusing on what’s best for the agency, and even turning down funding when the funders treat you badly.

        I love my nonprofit job because it avoids all the pitfalls you mentioned.

        Good luck Kristin!

      3. Ask a Manager* Post author

        That’s not something specific to nonprofits; that kind of dysfunction is endemic throughout all sectors (as we often see from letters here). I hate it when nonprofits get tagged as being specially guilty of this kind of thing, when the reality is that it’s everywhere, and there are well-run and poorly-run organization in every sector.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I’d want to know who I would be working with to learn the job. New boss may/may not be able to train or advise you. Ask something about the key people who will be helping you learn the ropes.

      Ask what your average day would look like.

      Ask about longevity, after all they are hiring you and your boss. What happened to the previous people? No, don’t say that but keep your eyes open for clues.

      Try to get a feel for if they would ask you for anything outside your job description. You might find an opening in conversation for that such as: “And last year we repainted this whole end of the building.” Jump in with a fishing statement: “oh wow,that is a lot of furniture to move!” Then you may find out “Everyone volunteered their weekends and helped. It took us a month!” Uh-huh. Your turn: “oh do people volunteer their time a lot?”

  31. Ann Furthermore*

    Who watched the first episode of Fargo, and what did you think? I thought it was weird, creepy, and full of potential.

    1. Celeste*

      I’m afraid to watch it because I loved the movie so much and don’t want it ruined, if that makes sense.

      1. Ann Furthermore*

        No, I totally get it. I love the movie too, but I really liked it, and I believe the pilot was directed by the Coen brothers (or they had some kind of involvement).

        It’s completely different characters, and a completely different storyline, but there are alot of nods to the movie.

        1. Celeste*

          Okay, I will check it out then. I am a terrible one for not wanting to see the movie because it might spoil the book, too!

          1. Ann Furthermore*

            Yes, I’m with you. Best example for me was Cloud Atlas. I watched it on a flight a few months ago and thought it was a convoluted mess. Beautifully shot, and great special effects, but a mess.

            Then I read the book and it made so much more sense. I need to watch the movie again though — I think I would like it much better now that I’ve read the book.

    4. some1*

      I’ve lived in MN all my life. I found the show good and the movie is great, but the errors in geography and local parlance both annoy me as a local of course.

  32. Trix*

    So, here’s the kind of luck I have. I just started a wonderful job about three weeks ago. Now I’ve found out that I am going to need two surgeries: 1) removal of a large cyst on my ovary (which requires a week off work) and, the biggie, 2) a malignant mass in my kidney which obviously needs to be removed (having this done in a month; doctor forsees about 6-8 weeks of downtime.

    The people at my new job have been very nice about it (at least to my face) and I filled out paperwork for a leave of absence, but I really hope that my taking all of this time off doesn’t reflect badly on me. I mean, I have no choice, but still :(

    1. Celeste*

      You have no choice, and all you can do is come back strong and work hard. Bad luck can happen to us all, but I’m glad the timing of this didn’t hurt your job search.

    3. The Other Dawn*

      This happened to me, also, when I first started a job years ago. Around the same timing, too. It was an ovarian cyst. They were fine with it. It’s not like it’s something you can control. It would be different if you were having elective surgery. Then I would say to hold off for a few months.

      Then, about two months later, I was out for a week because of a nasty viral infection. Again, no issues.

      Good luck and I hope all goes well for you!

    4. fposte*

      I don’t think it will reflect badly on you. I think you’ll be a bit of a question mark for longer than usual because of the time out of the office and restart a few relationships, but not in a bad way, just in a “we don’t know her yet” way.

      Good luck to you and a swift recovery!

    5. Ann Furthermore*

      Oh, I’m sorry. None of that is ever anything you want to go through, but to have it hit you right when you start a new job is even worse!

      If your managers and co-workers are being supportive, then take it at face value. It’s not like it’s something you have any control over. And just make sure that before you start your leave, that you’ve got everything taken care of, people are lined up to cover your work, and so on.

      This is totally different than, say, if you’d started your job and then said, “Oh, by the way, I’ve got a round-the-world cruise scheduled next month and I’ll be gone for 4 weeks. See ya!” That would really tick me off. But this is a medical issue — totally different.

      I hope everything goes well!

    6. Elizabeth West*

      It’s not something you can help. If they’re being very nice about it, then I would take that at face value.

      Good luck and I hope everything goes well and you feel better soon!

    7. Mimmy*

      Agree with everyone else. It’s just rotten timing…you’ve done nothing wrong. Wishing you the best with your surgeries and recovery. Remember to take care of yourself first.

    8. Ilf*

      Take the time to recover after surgery, and take the time to research the cancer (is it RCC?) before and after surgery. If RCC, take the time to find a good oncologist that specializes in renal cancer – rare enough, used to have a poor prognosis, but there have been huge progress in the past five years with targeted therapy (chemo has zero results for RCC).
      I had RCC (the vanilla clear clear type) so I have some idea of what you may be going through. A good oncologist that specializes in RCC is key. I suggest joining the kidney cancer community on smartpatients.com. Do not give complete control to your doctors, do not rely on SO or parents or friends to make decisions for you, be your own advocate. There are key decisions to make, like doing Interleukin-2 if the cancer is not contained, or preserving the tumor for a potential vaccine (very long shot, but if the decision is not made now, there’s a lot less opportunity to make it in the future). The IL-2 treatment has low rate of success, but in case of success very low rate of recurrence. Most doctors do not offer it.
      The job will be there for you, and if not, there will be other jobs, but this is a time to make important medical decisions.
      Good luck to you!

      1. Ilf*

        “clear cell” not “clear clear”

        Also – for follow up, I strongly suggest you to consider not doing your follow up with the surgical urologist – the standards of American Urology Association are quite out of date – like chest Xray (vs chest CT) which does not pick up lung mets (most frequently occurring mets in RCC) until they are quite big, losing precious time for treatment.

    9. Nancypie*

      The timing of this is probably not that bad. If projects are just getting assigned to you, etc., possibly someone can cover easier ( because until you came they were doing the work) than if you had been there for years and were suddenly going to be out. If that is the case, I might bring that person a box of chocolates or something upon returning.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      Chiming in to say- I lost over a month at a very new job for health reasons. It went fine. The only thing that happened was they changed my date of hire on my record. Which didn’t amount to a hill of beans in the long run. Of course, I worried about it and I checked in with my boss at one point to let them know how things were progressing- just a general overview of time frame. (I thought that showed interest/concern about my job- but I really was very concerned and pretty upset over it all.)

      1. Fish Microwaver*

        When I started my new job last year, I had a badly timed flare up of a chronic condition that unfortunately wiped out my immune system. I was out sick for most of the first six weeks and then struggled to recover for the month after that. I felt very embarrassed by such an inauspicious start, especially as they were expecting great things from me.

        I have worked hard to get the chronic condition under control, improved my general health and am now being trained as team leader. I received a lot of support from my managers and co-workers.

        Good wishes to you for a full recovery from your surgeries.

  34. Stephanie*

    Guys, my job search mojo is gone. I’m experiencing major burnout (again). I just feel completely unmotivated. I’m glancing at the Taleo applications in my browser tabs and just feeling awful at the thought of slogging through those.

    I feel incredibly discouraged (and I get why people say they just stop looking). On a rational level, I know I have to keep applying and talking to people, because that’s the only way. But on some irrational level, my mind’s like “Noooooo! Nooooo! No more applications where we have to list the high school ‘major.'”

    I can’t wait for the day when I can post “I got an offer!” on an open thread.

    /vent

    3. SimpleeInspired*

      I’m right there on the same boat with the exception of having to sludge through my last semester of college as well. Recently over spring break, I decided to take a vaca on job hunting (been on it since August). Maybe that’s what you need, a three day vaca from job hunting. =)

    5. Sunflower*

      Same. I try to associate applying for jobs with rewards. Like I can watch my TV show once I apply to this job. Or I can eat a cookie once I do this, etc.

    6. fposte*

      No good help, but I’m sending good wishes and taking much delight in the wonderful new avatar.

    7. AndersonDarling*

      I like to think that there is a job out there for you, but it isn’t ready yet, so you need to keep looking. Once it is ready (a person quits/ a new job is created) you will find it and it will be perfect.
      I don’t want to sound like a blue, bald priestess, but visualize what you want and it will materialize at the right time.

  35. Phone interviews?*

    I’ve been doing phone interviews for volunteer positions. I am very aware that I give a lot of non-verbal cues when people are talking – nodding etc, but how would I translate these to verbal cues? I’m thinking particularly of the people we talk to who have a tendency to ramble – probably because getting phone silence on the other end is uncomfortable/they’re nervous/etc.

    1. fposte*

      You may actually be overdoing it on the nodding anyway–many people do. This could be a good experience for you holding back a little and letting the interviewee take the responsibility.

      And I think it’s fine to do verbal cues like “That’s great, thanks” both on the phone and in-person when somebody’s answered the question enough, and to ask “Can you tell me a little more?” if they stop before you wanted them to.

  36. Jessica the Researcher*

    I’m moving into my first solo apartment in a few weeks, and I’m so excited (mostly because I can finally get a cat!). Please share your wisdom, AAM community – any tips for either cat ownership or living alone?

    1. The Other Dawn*

      I would get two cats that are about the same age. Preferably from the same rescue. That way they know each other and will tend to play together. Single cats tend to get lonely and can start acting out. That’s what happened to me when I got my first cat. He was a rotten little bastard…until I got another cat his age. It was like night and day.

      1. Jessica the Researcher*

        I really wish I could have two cats, but my landlord will only allow one. And the apartment is small, unfortunately, so I’m not sure two cats would be comfortable in it. I plan on putting up a bird feed outside the largest window and having a lot of toys around for the kitty. Do you think that will be enough entertainment or should I plan for more? I don’t want it to be lonely or bored!

        1. The Other Dawn*

          One would be fine if you go for an older cat, I think. Older cats don’t need as much stimulation. Also depends on how often you’re home. If you’re home a lot then a younger cat might be fine. If you’re gone a lot then maybe an older cat. If you go to a rescue you can look for one that prefers to be an only cat.

        2. Jen RO*

          I second Dawn’s advice. My cat was very hyper and aggressive before I got him a friend – now they both seem happier!

    2. Ash (the other one!)*

      Litter boxes smell. I just got in a fight with the hubby about this last night. You need to make sure you clean them up (some cats are more picky about this than mine — we go three days or so between scoops, some cats refuse to go after using the box once).

      For living alone, find ways of getting out of the house. This was the biggest challenge for me — not becoming a hermit by myself since I didn’t have the instant draw of roommates.

      1. Jessica the Researcher*

        A smelly litter box was actually my biggest concern with getting a cat. I lived with a roommate that refused to keep on top of cleaning her one, small litter box for her two cats – what a nightmare for the cats and for me. What do you think about litter box liners? A friend swears by them for her cat, but my roommate’s cats would tear them up.

        1. Ash (the other one!)*

          I tried them maybe once or twice and, yea, they rip. Plus we’ve started using a giant 40 gallon tub for our cat’s litter box so those won’t work there…

        2. The Other Dawn*

          I don’t use the liners. Cats shred those things up.

          Just scoop often and use a good clumping litter. We use Dr. Elsey’s Prescious Cat (sold in pet stores and Petco) and it’s 99% dust-free. I have 12 cats and no one ever complains about a smell. In fact, people tell me they can’t tell I even have cats. But we scoop 8 litter boxes everyday.

        4. BadPlanning*

          I think scooping every day is a big help. And perhaps a non clay litter. I find the clay litter has a shard unpleasant smell in itself. Nature’s Best litter is a corn based litter which is nice — it clumps and scoops much like clay litter. Feline Pine (the pellets) is nice too.

          It can also depend on how good your cat is at covering. Some cats are very careful about covering…some do not cover.

        5. Sadsack*

          I use flushable litter called World’s Greatest Cat Litter. I clean the box at least once a day, twice when necessary. I live in a very small house with one cat and the litter box is right in my bathroom, so I just drag the box over to the toilet and scoop away. The litter is expensive though, like super expensive, but I feel that the convenience and cleanliness of using it are benefits worth the cost. My place never smells of the cat box because I never let it accumulate. it isn’t difficult to keep up with at all — it takes about a minute out of my life each time I scoop.

          I also do not have a regular litter box, I use a big Rubbermaid container that I cut a door in so I can keep the lid on and not look at the litter. It keeps my cat from flinging litter all over the place, too.

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            I used to use that! I loved that it was flushable. I recently changed to Dr. Elsey’s Precious Cat (terrible name) and it’s not flushable but we got a Litter Genie to scoop the litter into, which is nearly as easy.

          2. COT*

            I’ve tried a lot of litters and World’s Best is my favorite for odor control (particularly the pine-scented) and tracking, plus it’s healthy (dust-free) for the cat and flushable.

            We got a “solo” kitten and he does just fine with lots of stimulation, toys, and playtime. He doesn’t usually act out or seem listless/bored even though he doesn’t have any other pets at home.

            Learning a little bit about cat behavior and nutrition was really helpful for me as a first-time cat owner.

        6. LPBB*

          Definitely scoop every day, it will really help with the smell. And you might want to look into getting a Litter Genie or something like it. It might seem a little wasteful, with all the plastic bags, but it does also cut down on smells.

        7. abby*

          Litter box liners are useless. Get a good-quality litter. We use Dr. Elsey’s Precious Cat Respiratory Relief. Clumping is better because you can remove everything from the box. I don’t like scented – it simply replaces one nasty smell with another. Scoop often. When we’re home during the day, we scoop as we notice anything. During the week, we scoop at least twice per day, sometimes three, depending on activity.

          Another trick to cut down on litter box odor is to feed the highest quality food you can afford. Because one of my cats appears to have food sensitivities and other intestinal issues, we recently switched to a higher-quality limited ingredient canned food. Both the volume and frequency went down, and now we cannot smell a thing unless we’re right next to the litter box.

    3. ryn*

      Get your kitty a ‘da bird’ cat toy. The best cat toy ever. Will keep both of you entertained and use up the cat’s extra energy.

      Also, for living alone, get Netflix in lieu of of cable.

      2. Elysian*

        My cat adores da bird. We heard about it on TV, from “my cat from hell” and I thought, This silly thing will never work. My cat hates toys! But oh gosh, does she love it. Literally to shreds, we have to keep buying new birds.

    4. Stephanie*

      I’d say stay on top of cleaning. I keep common areas clean, but when I lived alone, that could go to hell because I didn’t have the looming specter of a roommate argument over dishes.

      Also, I was really amazed at how things would randomly end up out of place because I didn’t have roommates to keep me in check. So I’d go into the kitchen and see a deodorant stick. “Ok, I’m sure I had the deodorant in the kitchen for some reason…”

    5. C*

      Living alone is amazing. I’ve had roommates, and I hope to move in with my partner sometime next year, but living alone is so so so great.

      Just be sure to get out of the house. I started a book club and do a couple volunteer activities 3-4 times a month. I could probably get out more than I do, but in general I’m pretty introverted and a homebody.

      And maybe think about two kitties. I have one and I’m sure she gets lonely, so I hope to get another soon (although she may not like that either…)

    6. LMW*

      I’d take a little time to enjoy the luxury of being alone before getting a cat. Pets are awesome — and my dog has brought so much joy to my life and I wouldn’t trade that for the world — but it’s also really nice to just have a little space where you can be completely self-centered for a little bit, even if it’s just a few months. Because once you make that commitment to share space with another living creature you don’t get that back for a long time (hopefully). If this is your first solo apartment, make sure you take at least a little time to enjoy being solo!

      1. Carrie in Scotland*

        I don’t use liners either but I put old newspaper down – my cat doesn’t shred that, for some reason.
        I also have a laser pen that I use to play with the cat – it is very fun.
        If you’re picking up the cat and using a car/bus/train I’ve been (recently) advised that to stop them freaking out (my cat hates the car) put a towel or something over the travel box.

  37. ryn*

    So, curious. Does anyone work in an office of a manufacturing facility that is nearly paperless? Cause, I swear, we’re just thinking of ways to kill more trees at my place.

    1. The Other Dawn*

      My new workplace is trying to be paperless. I’m a fan of trying to go paperless, but it seems like things take longer since you have to get all the docs organized, scan them, name the file, put it where you want it, etc.

      It seems that we’re really not saving a lot of paper, at least not here. We’re just shredding it rather than boxing or filing it.

      If you go paperless someone will have to make sure your workplace has the server capacity for all the files that will be saved there.

      1. ryn*

        Yeah…we’re basically in the dark ages in IT respects. It’s…sad. And now we’re actually doubling up on paper work that doesn’t actually need to be filed and it’s just frustrating. Everyone in the front office has a huge stack to file and there actually isn’t any room in the files to put them away. :|

        1. The Other Dawn*

          Sounds like there needs to be a record retention schedule so things get shredded after a certain amount of time. Or contract with a document storage facility.

          Yeah, if you’re in the dark ages in terms of IT, going paperless would be difficult. It uses up a lot of server capacity.

          Maybe start printing double-sided, if you haven’t already. That helps me.

    2. Annie O*

      My company said they wanted to go paperless, but a few higher-ups adamantly prefer paper. As a result, almost everything needs to be done digitally AND on paper. Instead of “going green,” we’ve just increased the amount of work.

      1. ryn*

        hah, see, that’s something that also annoys me. Most of our vendors and most of our customers already do things digitally, but we download their stuff and print it off.

    3. krm*

      My office is officially paperless…we use more paper than when we weren’t! The nature of my work just lends itself better to having physical paper infront of you than reading it off of computer screens, which means I print something, do my work, pass it off to the next person, who then re-prints what they need from the file, etc. We’ve discussed having an actual file that gets passed around in addition to the scanned file, but due to new industry regulations that is not allowed.

      1. Ed Zachary*

        Toxic OldJob was paperless. They simply let the printers break and didn’t fix them. They didn’t stock pens or pencils or other stationary items so if you wanted to write something you had to buy your own pen and pad of paper. There was no process evaluation to see how things would be done in a paperless way, people just adapted.

        One of my happiest days was the day I left Toxic OldJob.

        1. Stephanie*

          Yup, I had to supply my own pen and paper at a former job. They claimed they were going paperless themselves.

          A friend worked at a place where they got really nice, free pens. He said he’d bring me some. He did and then several times after that, we’d meet up and he’d have like six pens in hand for me.

          Man, those were nice pens. I was kind of sad when he left that job because I lost my pen supply.

      2. Stephanie*

        When I worked at the Patent Office, TPTB computerized all the applications in an effort to go paperless. Except this had the exact effect you mentioned–no one wanted to read patents and technical drawings on computer screens, so everyone just printed everything out.

        1. Grace*

          Stephanie,
          Have you thought about applying to work in Intellectual Property law offices and legal departments?

          1. Stephanie*

            IP I’m trying to transition away from, but both of my jobs in it have been at pretty toxic workplaces, so not opposed to doing some work in it.

            Problem is, there’s not a whole between paralegal/assistant and attorney, but I’ll look into it. I’ve gotten some traction from university tech transfer offices. Thanks for the suggestion!

    4. Fish Microwaver*

      Our office is officially paperless, but I am one of the few who adhere to this. I keep a jotter handy to scribble down names or phone numbers, but all my work, apart from the client confirmation letters, is digital. (They could be digital but much of our client basis is older with less access to computers. That being said, I will send digitally to those who request it.) This means I am able to deliver twice the output of my colleagues. My manager doesn’t do anything about enforcing the paperless “rule”, which is quite irksome.

  38. Heather*

    I’m taking my first actuarial exam on Monday. Since starting a new job a month ago, I haven’t had nearly as much time to study as I was hoping. Anyway, feeling very nervous for my exam! Any other actuaries out there?

  39. Chocolate Lover*

    I’ve seen the news reports and statistics about lower unemployment rates but wanted to get an idea of what you all think. Do you feel the economy is getting better and is easier to find a job?

    1. OriginalYup*

      Yes and no. My sense is that it’s getting less gridlocked, but at an uneven rate and not uniformly across sectors/levels. I see plenty of hiring going on but it be seems single hires in relatively specialized roles, rather than waves of new people at entry level or whole industries suddenly bursting open. I’m starting to see a lot more ‘help wanted’ signs in retail & food service places, and a lot less ‘for rent’ signs in commercial space, but in dribs and drabs rather than what I’d considered proper momentum. I see it as kind of a cautious thawing, if that makes sense.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        I took a picture of a Help Wanted sign this week. I thought they were extinct. :)

    2. Not So NewReader*

      They reworked the formula for computing the number of unemployed a while ago. They also don’t count the people who have given up. And there seems to be a bump in long term disability claims?

      I think that math has gotten better but employment, uh, not so much.

  40. Mae*

    My boss recently asked our team (in a meeting) to start taking photographs of our coworkers should we observe them breaking rules. That’s weird, right? I would much rather just talk to them about it and remind them of the implications of rule-breaking.

    (We work in a professional setting with specific accreditation and regulations, which require regular official inspections. If rule-breaking coworkers were caught by an inspector, our group could technically be cited and possibly penalized.)

      1. Mae*

        Nah, inspectors are usually outside groups/officials and we usually have some warning that they will be visiting. Sometimes we have internal, unofficial inspections performed by other people in our institution (but not by someone in our department).

    2. Beti*

      I’m not sure what your field is but would a photograph accurately document the infractions? If an infraction is something like falsifying paperwork, you’d have to be leaning over their shoulder to capture the evidence – and presumably they’d stop at that point. I’d think written documentation would be more accurate and useful.

      I’d be weirded out by my co-workers photographing me but I’m a little photo-phobic.

      1. Beti*

        And isn’t it mostly your boss’ job to monitor employees’ behavior? Yes, safety/security/rules are everyone’s responsibility but this comes across a little too nosy-neighbor and I can’t imagine it would be good for morale.

      2. Mae*

        Yes, a photo could document the specific infraction discussed by the boss. We were asked to photograph coworkers eating or drinking in certain spaces, to be specific. I appreciate the need for everyone to be involved in the success, safety, and compliance of our group, but I too am uncomfortable with taking photos of someone without their consent. My trust would be violated if I found out that someone took a photo of me doing something wrong instead of just speaking with me directly about it.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      This is bizarre. How come other companies feel no need to do this?

      So, what is the managers’ plan to make sure the pics have not been photoshopped by someone who has an agenda?

    1. Ash (the other one!)*

      Search for passive voice. This is my biggest issue with writing — but I know it, so I write and then edit every passive sentence I possibly can.

    2. StaminaTea*

      Set a goal to delete half the words you wrote when you’re done writing something. If you repeat something, cut it. If a sentence has more than one comma or “and,” it’s too long.

    3. books*

      Practice writing memos. Front with the most important thing, then expand on the reasoning. Once you’ve laid out exactly where you’re going, it will be easier to write more to the point.

    4. Bryan*

      See if you can get someone who is a concise writer to edit your work. Once you see some examples it might help.

    5. littlemoose*

      I find examples invaluable. Find some examples of well-written and concise work – maybe that someone else in your role or a similar one has produced, or just in books or newspapers that you think are well-written. Then try to break it down and figure out those writers have done, and apply it to your efforts. Maybe that will be of use?

    6. straws*

      Along with all of these other great suggestions…
      Try to step away from yourself and ask if everything you’re saying is truly necessary. I have a tendency to load as much info as possible into an email, but never everyone wants/has time for that. I’ve learned to ask myself “Is this really important to my primary point, or is it something that can be addressed later?”

    7. Victoria Nonprofit*

      Think about the information you want to deliver, and just write that. When you’re done, go back through to make changes to improve the tone.

      (For example, my “fat” version of the two sentences above would be: Do some thinking about what you actually want to communicate, then try to write just those words, without any additional explanation or commentary. After you’ve finished, take a look at what you’ve written and make any changes you need to get to the right tone.)

    8. Sunflower*

      I reverse it around and put myself in the shoes of the person receiving it. If I was receiving this letter, would I be sighing at the length? What parts would I skip and what parts would i maybe reread?

      and this sounds so so bad but I also look at it and pretend I’m talking to my best guy friend. He(like some other men) don’t care much for little details so I imagine it like I’m telling him a story where I need to get to the point

    9. Emily, admin extraordinaire*

      Get a Twitter account. It’s amazing how much being limited to 140 characters makes you examine every word and punctuation mark.

      1. EA*

        Yes, but in the business world, bad grammar/punctuation/spelling is not as acceptable as it is on social media.

    10. The Real Ash*

      I have been told by friends and co-workers that I use “too many words” when writing. So now what I do is type out everything that I want to say, and then go back and revise it. Maybe I repeated myself in two different places, maybe I am oversharing information, maybe I’m answering questions that weren’t asked… That way I still get the words out of my system, but I am making myself be considerate of others’ time by reviewing it for conciseness and clarity. It’s helped me cut down my initial amount of writing considerably.

    11. lavendertea*

      Studying poetry really helped me see how much you can do with so little. Reading it but especially writing it.

    12. Elysian*

      I’m wordy when I write. When I revise, I go back through and ask myself “What does each sentence bring to the table? If I delete this sentence, what message will my reader lose?” If the sentence doesn’t add any value, then I don’t keep it.

    13. MJ*

      I learned from a coworker that when I am finished writing something I should look at my last paragraph and try moving it to the top (we tend to conclude with the point we are trying to make instead of leading with it). At that point I can often find parts I can delete as no longer necessary since I am not trying to pull someone along a path to a destination – I put them at the destination right up front.

  42. StaminaTea*

    I enjoyed the post “how to know it’s time to leave your job” a few months ago.

    I have a root canal scheduled for next Tuesday afternoon, and I’m excited that I get to miss four hours of work for it.

    Is it time to leave my job? ; )

    2. C average*

      Yeah, that’s not a good sign!

      That said, I’ve always wondered why root canal has become the universal standard of unpleasantness. I’ve had one, and it wasn’t that bad. If I had to choose between, say, a root canal and a three-hour conference call, I’d take the root canal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

      1. StaminaTea*

        hahaha! Yeah, I think they have a bad rap. Mostly sounds like sitting in the chair for a long time. Supposed to be similar to a filling.

        1. Stephanie*

          I agree with C average. They’re not that terrible. I’ve had cleanings from aggressive hygienists I found far more unpleasant.

          Only that was kind of weird was when the dentist was “fishing out” the dead root. I was numbed, but there still was the sensation of the wire (or whatever they use) going in and out the tooth. That was odd feeling.

          My tooth was pretty sore afterwards, too, but that subsided after a day or so. I didn’t like how loopy the pain meds made me, so I just waited out the soreness.

      2. Lily in NYC*

        Root canals were awful and painful until not that long ago. Now they aren’t a big deal at all. I don’t know why – advances in Novocain maybe? Better equipment? I just had one a few weeks ago and I had no pain at all the next day.

        1. danr*

          You got to it before an infection set in. I’ve had both, and the ones without an infection are mostly painless. And yes, there are more powerful –caines than there used to be.

    3. Stephanie*

      Oooooh, I had the same thing happen! That job was also quota-based, so I was further excited because my root canal meant I could write off four hours.

      Anyway, yeah. Time to start looking.

      1. StaminaTea*

        Ha, yeah! I’ve got an ongoing saga with this particular tooth. It’s been more worrisome than painful, tho.

  43. Autumn*

    So glad to catch this early on! I have an interview attire question, as I have an interview next week (yay!) but I’m not sure what to wear. I have a traditional, grey pinstriped women’s pantsuit that I bought in grad school, but it doesn’t really fit anymore and honestly makes me look like a kid dressed up in her mom’s clothing (I’m 26 but often get mistaken for a teen/college student). What I’d like to wear instead is a yellow and black patterned skirt with a much better fitting black blazer on top. Do people think the bright color/pattern is too much for an interview? I work in non-profits, so while we’re not as conservative as say, law, we’re also not exactly creatives. Thoughts?

    3. krm*

      I think as long as it isn’t too wild it should be fine. Keep everything else conservative and it will balance out.

    4. Persephone Mulberry*

      I love it, but I also don’t think it hurts to be memorable for something in addition to your fantastic qualifications. :)

    6. Autumn*

      Thanks for the comments! I am feeling a lot better about the skirt. The pattern is big, but I think the outfit as a whole looks pretty conservative.

      The suit is actually too tight, so getting it tailored isn’t really an option. The whole ‘making me look like a kid’ isn’t about size, but about style. Somehow wearing ‘older’ clothing makes me look younger – I think it just accentuates my youthful face!

      1. Stephanie*

        Oh, I’m the same way. I look young for my age and have a round face, so an ill-fitting suit makes me look like I’m playing dress-up in Mommy’s Big Girl Clothes. I think it’s the contrast between the outfit and my face.

    7. Nancypie*

      Caveat: I do not work in non-profits, but a somewhat conservative industry. So I may have it wrong, but your skirt sounds too busy and bright for an interview to me. I would get a grey skirt (even at target!) and wear that with the black blazer. You should avoid getting a black skirt so that you don’t wind up with 2 different shades of black.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        That’s good idea, especially if it’s a conservative environment. We had a candidate show up last summer wearing a miniskirt, sleeveless top with a giant cut-out in the back and sandals – my boss refused to interview her. It was for a very high-level position and everyone was shocked that she didn’t know better. She was also 20 minutes late and didn’t apologize or offer an explanation, which was way worse.

        1. Nancypie*

          I kind of get that; if the person doesn’t have the right judgement to know (or ask someone or look it up) what to wear to an interview , what other lapses on judgement might they have? I would have gone ahead with the interview, but it would have impacted what I thought.

    8. Mae*

      I’m in non-profits and I think it depends on the job you’re interviewing for. If it’s an entry-level position or one where you aren’t going to interact with many high level people (clients or co-workers), then I think what you describe is totally fine. If it’s something higher level where you’re going to be working with department heads and/or donors I’d go with a more neutral bottom.

      Good Luck!

  44. matcha123*

    I feel like my financial situation is really holding me back. I’ve spent most of my life thinking about money; how to get it, how to save it. And now that I’ve been working full-time, I feel like it’s effecting my ability to really get ahead.

    When I can only focus on how to pay bills, how to find ways to make more money, etc., I can’t fully focus on the things that would help me get better at my job. Instead of going into work refreshed, I’ve spent the past almost decade going into work feeling tired and drained.

    How do you get the energy to get better at your job when there’s no chance of a pay raise (even with changing jobs), you think about how to best use your money 24/7 and there’s no chance of improving your situation? Anyone feel the same way? How did/do you overcome it?

    1. GoodGirl*

      You may already be doing this, but have you ever tracked your spending? I started doing this about a year ago and was shocked at how much money I was wasting on a monthly basis.

      From that point on, I started doing a monthly budget and it has helped me tremendously. I want to buy a home in the next year or so, and was having a lot of trouble saving money for a down payment. The tracking and budget have helped so much.

      And, I dont’ know what industry you’re in, but changing companies/jobs really helped my financial situation. I started out in an ad agency (a.k.a. very low pay for entry-level people), moved to another company (got a substanial pay bump), and then moved to another company a couple of years ago and another substantial pay bump. Four years ago, I wasn’t even making 30K/year and now I make 60K.

      1. matcha123*

        I tried tracking for a few months, but lost motivation. I know that my monthly bills are a lot less than most of the people around me. But, a big chunk of money gets sent home every month to pay student loans and to help my family. That’s the kicker.

        Strict budgeting and looking for food sales are things I’ve been doing since high school and I start to get panicked when I have to think like that. Then I can’t concentrate on anything else because while I’m counting change to buy cheap food, someone else making the same as me is living it up because their situation allows that.

        I’m hoping to get a large pay raise when I can move back to the US, but since I’m in Japan, salaries across the board are way lower than the US. No pay negotiations. No salary increases for ability. I could make do on my current salary if I didn’t have to worry about helping my family and paying my uni loans.
        I’m doing side jobs to stay afloat and try to put away a very small bit a month, but it’s very draining >_<

        1. Not So NewReader*

          The money you send home each month- is there any way you can reduce that even by a little bit?

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Missed this and wanted to add: lack of concentration and cheap food. This might be tricky but see if you can reduce the amount of sugars and flours you are eating. It will help with your concentration. Also make sure you are drinking water- I know when I am stressed these are the first things that just go away. And I need to bring them back to help me cope.

    2. Sunflower*

      What is your job that you are at the point where you can’t advance or make more money even if you changed jobs? And why would you care about getting better at it if it’s not going to do you any good anyway. No wonder you’re exhausted- I would be too!

      You sound very defeated. Or like you’re putting your energy into the wrong things. I would spend less time worrying about how to get better at your job and start thinking of how to get yourself into a situation where you can improve your career and overall life situation because there is a way out there somewhere!

      1. matcha123*

        I think that if I moved back to the US, I could make more money. But, to do that, I need money to move back to the US. And without a place to live (back home in the US), savings and a driver’s license, I don’t feel like a great resume/interview/etc. could help me secure a job.

        The suggestions of some of my friends haven’t really helped either: “sell everything you own and move back to the US and stay at my house until you get a job.”
        “Uhh…how am I supposed to make my loan payments doing that when the economy is bad and I’d certainly have to move??” is my response.

        My main job focus is translation between Japanese and English. I know there are jobs in the US, but, again, selling everything I own for a “maybe” without having significant savings in my account is not a risk I’m willing to take. A translator is making between 25k – 40k a year here (in general, there are people that specialize in law, etc. that make more i assume). The people who would be in the 40k range would most certainly be in their early 50s. I had a recruiter laugh at me when I told her my salary requirements because, “Pay is based on age lolz.”

        1. fposte*

          Can you develop one of those more lucrative specialties, and would you like to?

          Are there any freelancing possibilities (thinking maybe remotely) that would help the finances?

        2. Ilf*

          I know a big Japanese company with global aspirations making a big push in US. Maybe try to work for a company like that and express interest/ availability for relocating to US? They could pay for your relo.

    3. MJ*

      Every time I have been short of money, I have looked for ways to share expenses with someone else. Is there someone you could share an apartment with?

      1. matcha123*

        Thanks for your replies :)

        I don’t know if you three will see them, since I went to bed right after typing my last one up.
        Roommates are not a possibility here for a variety of reasons (small apartments, against the lease).
        I’m also hoping to take on more freelance projects. I’ve done some in the past few months and I’ve also turned down a lot because the time needed to complete them is too tight for someone with a full-time job. But, the fatigue from life is also holding me back from searching more. It’s a vicious cycle…

        Thanks for the replies, I do appreciate them! It’s hard to talk to people here in Japan about these things :)

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Keep us posted on how it is going for you. Don’t allow yourself to be totally alone with your thoughts–keep bouncing ideas on here. I know I have searched around inside my head to realize there are not a lot of answers in there! Talking to others helps in incremental ways.

  45. Gallerina*

    Does anyone have any advice for what to do when you keep getting rejected after second and third round interviews? I’m honestly baffled about what I’m doing wrong that’s getting me down to the final two or three, but not getting me the jobs. My requests for feedback have either been ignored or very vague. I’m drawing a blank!

      1. Ash (the other one!)*

        Me too. I’ve now been a finalist (one of two candidates) for four jobs now that I have not received offers on and I want to kick something.

    2. Laura*

      I have no idea, but I have the exact same problem…it’s happened…i don’t know like 20 times? I figure if I’m getting to the second interviews, I can’t be thaaat horrible. It’s similar types of jobs, but all sorts of kinds of companies.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      See if you can enlist a friend to do a mock interview with you. Make sure you pick someone who can give good feedback and whose opinion you trust (and don’t get mad if they have criticism!).

      Of course, it could be too that there are a ton of people applying and interviewing and you’re just having bad odds right now.

      1. Gallerina*

        Thanks! That’s a really good idea. On thinking about it, I might get more nervous as the pool of candidates gets whittled down, so make a less good second or third impression.

    4. Ash (the other one!)*

      Have they called your references? That’s one piece I know has been addressed here before…

      1. Laura*

        For me anyways, a lot of the time, during the second interview they say they’ll be calling references, and then never call mine at all. When they do my references do give me a general idea of what they say, and it’s nothing bad.

        I felt like if I did well enough in the first interview t hat they invited me for a second, I can’t suck too bad at interviewing , right? I don’t do anything drastically different in the first or second interviews….i don’t know, maybe I should be doing something drastically different for the second one.

        1. fposte*

          Have you had somebody else call your references just in case?

          I also think Elizabeth has an excellent idea about a mock interview. I agree that you can’t be too bad, but there might be something that you could sharpen up, and this would be a way to check on that.

      2. Gallerina*

        I have had references called at least once and had reports back from my former managers, who I stayed on good terms with, that they had given me fabulous reviews.

        I did once have a reference do an absolute hatchet job on me (I got the job anyway) so I try and be extra cautious about who I put down and what they might say about me.

    5. GoodGirl*

      I’ll echo the advice below about getting a friend to mock interview you. I do interview coaching as a side business and a lot of my clients have found mock interviewing very helpful in figuring out what their interviewing weaknesses are.

      Also, do you know who the companies end up hiring? Are they internal candidates? Do they have some sort of personal connection to company (i.e. their aunt works there?)?

      1. Laura*

        I think some sort of professional doing mock interviewing would help for me…I’ve tried it once or twice with friends, but with someone I’ve never met , it’d probably be closer to how I really am in an interview. I am in Toronto, so if anyone knows any good professionals like this in the area!

        And when I do find out the people who get the job, it’s often someone with far more experience than the job requires. Like it says 1 year experience required, I have 2 years and the person they hired has 6. I think to an extent, with this type of job all of the top 3 candidates would be brilliant at the job, and probably all of the top like 20 would be pretty good at it (these are jobs that get 200+ applicants each, so it’s a little comforting that I’m doing something right to get to the top 3)

  46. Meghan*

    Cautiously optimistic today: a company I’ve interviewed with twice before reached out to me on linkedin and wants to meet again for a new role.

    In every interview I feel like there’s been a great rapport with the team and the managers, so I’m hoping now that my experience and the role clicks.

  47. Ann Furthermore*

    I’m so proud of my stepdaughter! There is a school trip to the Galapagos Islands next summer that she really want to participate in, but it’s going to cost about $4000 by the time it’s all said and done.

    We told her that she had to get a job if she wanted to go, and that for every $75 she saves, we’ll pitch in $25. She started looking for a job, and applied all over the place, and no one was calling her back. Then she got hired at Safeway as a courtesy clerk. She’s been there a few weeks now. They’ve got her working 20-25 hours a week, and she’s still keeping up with all her schoolwork and chores at home.

    I’m so proud of her. I think she’ll enjoy the trip even more since it will be something she worked so hard to earn.

    1. hildi*

      Way to go mom & dad – a good kid you’ve got there :) And that trip will feel even better since she worked so hard for it. My girls are still small, but I’ve long thought that as soon as they can work, they’re getting jobs. I have been working since I was 14 and I think kids should just work (or volunteer). I think it keeps them out of trouble, aside from all the other obvious benefits.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        The kids I’ve seen who have actual chores at home seem to do better with this (and not just for allowance–I mean when everyone in the family pitches in). They get a better sense of responsibility and teamwork. Even little ones can pick up their clothes and toys, etc.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          This. I think of one poor person. I asked him to mop the floor. I gave him a mop and bucket.

          He dumped the water out all over the floor. Totally emptied the bucket.

          He wondered why he was having difficulty.

      2. Lily in NYC*

        Thank you on behalf of everyone for not having her do crowdfunding (like Kickstarter) to get people to try to give her the money instead. I can’t believe how many people think that’s ok. I am not funding someone else’s vacation, dream house or wedding.

        1. Ann Furthermore*

          Good God, people actually do this? I’m pretty sure if she’d tried this, my husband would have shut that down as soon as he found out about it. And then told her that she was not a beggar and was not to behave like one. Thankfully, she’s got a good head on her shoulders and I don’t think this would even occur to her.

          The most outside-the-box thing I was thinking of, if she didn’t find anything, was to start going through the neighborhood offering photography/portrait services to families for a discounted rate. She is really into photography, and even though she’s only 16, she’s got a great eye. All of her photography projects at school are always selected to be in the display case. She took a school trip to Iceland last year, and the pics she got of the Northern Lights were amazing.

          1. Lily in NYC*

            You’d be amazed how many people do it! Back in the olden days when I was in HS, we babysat or had bake sales/car washes – you know, the usual ways to earn money where you perform a service. The photography idea would have been fine for that very reason – she would be doing something for the money instead of asking for a handout. It sounds like you have a great kid! I still haven’t seen the northern lights but it’s on my bucket list.

        2. chewbecca*

          Or the tech gadget they don’t really need. I followed a guy on Twitter for a while who was known to ask for money for things on a semi-regular basis. I unfollowed after the “I want a tablet, please give me money” plea.

    4. BadPlanning*

      As a courtesy clerk, I bet she’ll also have an assortment of hilarious crazy customer stories.

    5. Celeste*

      This is awesome! My daughter is turning 12 and it won’t be all that long until we can tell her she needs to work for some of these special opportunities that cost so much. I like the split you have; I never thought 50-50 was fair for kids with their limited earning power.

      1. Ann Furthermore*

        I think kids earning their own money is so important, and it gives them a real appreciation for the value of a dollar.

        Your daughter might have to start with stuff like babysitting, mowing lawns, or housesitting at first. My stepdaughter was trying to find a job last summer, and almost every place she tried told her that they didn’t hire kids under 16. I figured it was because of not having a drivers’ license, and therefore no reliable transportation, but I guess in our state, the child labor laws are much stricter for kids under 16 and alot of places don’t want to deal with the hassle.

        1. John*

          Agreed. I know way too many people whose kids are partway through college yet have never had a job. I would never hire someone like that (internships aren’t the same as real jobs). More important, I think it does the kids a disservice all around. Lots of character is built through those positions.

  48. hildi*

    Oh. I feel bad making this come so shortly after Jessica’s excited about getting a kitty post above but…..has anyone ever gotten just tired of their pets? I know this is a pet-loving community and I love them to, but…….I just wish they’d go away these days. We have two cats and a shih-tzu and we have had them for 10-12 years now – we got them shortly after we got married. They were our original babies and we treated them as such.

    But now, with kid #2 here our focus has shifted entirely to human children. I think one of the cats is misbehaving because he’s getting virtually ignored just because we are so freaking busy and tired with the little people. So he’s been pooping in the basement and then peeing sometimes. I can’t tell if he’s making a statement or if he’s having accidents or if he’s just…..being stupid. The other cat barfs after she eats. We’ve tried to cut back on the food and that has helped. But lord help me it seems like each day we come home we have to deal with another cat mess of some sort. Then our doofus dog has her days and nights flipped and wants to be let out all damn night long.

    I feel really horrible feeling this way about them. I have said they are lucky we aren’t the type of people that just exterminate their pets because they are inconvenient. But it’s crossed my mind. And I don’t know that I want to give them away because I’d hate to have them go to a new home and get extra scrambled up and cause problems for new owners. Plus….they are my family and you don’t just dump family because they pee on your floor.

    anyway….not really seeking solutions or anything. Just wondered if anyone else ever got really disillusioned with pet ownership and felt bad about it?

    1. Elizabeth West*

      Yes. Yes yes yes. I know it sounds awful, but my kitty is a HUGE inconvenience to me sometimes, because she’s so antisocial that I can’t even go out of town without making ridiculously elaborate arrangements (she’s an outside cat). I’m going to have to shell out a stupid amount of money to have someone feed her when I’m in England. There is no one I can depend on to do it for me except my neighbor, and he is getting older and having trouble getting around. I don’t want to ask him to do that for 2-1/2 weeks. Sometimes I wish she would run away, but I’m sure I would miss her, even though she was dumped on me and I didn’t even want a cat!

      If you’re struggling to adjust to a new member of the family, this is going to happen. And of course your focus is on the humans right now. If you can give them a little attention now and then, even if it’s only a few minutes a day, that might help. I’m sure once they get used to Kid #2, things will settle down. It’s probably a disruption for them too.

      1. hildi*

        Elizabeth – it’s so stressful for me to think about asking someone to watch our creature when we’re gone. They’re pretty easy for the most part but it feels like such an imposition. Definitely stressful – I hope you get it figured out for your trip (though you’re going to England YAY! so that should overcome the stress of pet arrangements. Better than being gone 2 weeks for, say, a root canal :)

        1. Elizabeth West*

          That’s one reason I’m hiring a professional pet-sitter. Though I do plan to have her meet my neighbor so he knows who she is and that the person going in and out of my house is legit and he doesn’t have to call the cops!

    2. Bryan*

      I feel that way at times just to have a break but not to the extent you’re facing. I think that’s part of having pets, just like having kids.

      1. hildi*

        I think you’re right, Bryan. The more I think about it, the more I think it must be just moving in and out of phases of life and sometimes pets are an awesome part of that and others not so much (like kids!)

    3. StaminaTea*

      Totally normal. I think it’s typical for pets go by the wayside when you have kids. Especially when you have a baby, or two kids under 5.

      Heck, I’ve had a parakeet for years, and even with no kids, sometimes I wish he’d just go away.

      1. hildi*

        Is it true that if you put a cloth over a bird’s cage they will think they are asleep and stop chirping? Or is that a myth?

        1. StaminaTea*

          Mostly true. When I really need him to quiet down, I cover him, he settles in for the night, then looks shocked when I uncover him a bit later and it’s daytime.

          I think it’s like a Pavlovian response – I usually only cover him when it’s bedtime. But sometimes he’s too worked up, and will keep on making a racket. Mostly he’s a good bird.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            We had to do that sometimes with the parakeet we had because he was so loud when we were watching TV. He loved to chirp along with the music. Silly Budgie.

        2. Ed Zachary*

          We’ve had 5 birds over the years and putting a dark cloth over the cage that completely covers all lighting openings works like a charm. Instant quiet. In the morning when you pull the cover off they are so happy to see you.

    4. Mimmy*

      Oh yes!! We had two cats since 2003 until one died last year. We still have the one, but she can be a royal pain in the neck sometimes. I feel horrible saying it too because we DON’T have kids. I think we’re just tired of the fur, snot, hair balls, etc. Our once-nice leather couch now looks like s***. I don’t wish ill on any animal, but man, I’m looking forward to the day we can buy new furniture and paint the walls. lol.

    5. Ann Furthermore*

      Oh, I can so relate to this. We got 2 dogs about 10 years ago, and they were great pets, but also a pain.

      We are just not dog people. We never mistreated them, of course, and they always have a warm place to sleep, plenty of water, and we always keep their shots up to date, and they have a yard to play in. And we don’t banish them to the yard or the garage or anything like that. But other people we know treat their dogs like their children, and just lavish them terribly. It makes us feel like inadequate pet owners.

      At the end of December, we had to put our bulldog to sleep, which was just so sad. He was almost 10, very old by bulldog standards, and had been going downhill pretty quickly. We do miss him. Our other dog is still in good heath, and finally did bounce back after losing her companion, and we do enjoy her, but after she goes, we’ve agreed that there will be no more dogs.

      1. hildi*

        Ann – it’s hard, isnt’ it? I have thought about the day when these creatures will go downhill (which will be in the next 5 years I bet) and it make me relieved but also sad to think about them not being around. And I don’t think I’d be interested in another cat, but maybe a dog? I always had a pet growing up and I do like what they can contribute to a family.

        1. Ann Furthermore*

          It is really hard. With our bulldog, it was just the right thing to do for him. He was in pretty bad shape, and anything we would have done to prolong his life would have been for us, not for him. But still, it was hard to say goodbye. And on top of that, I had to try to explain death to my 4 year old without freaking her out scaring her. Ugh. That was a true test of my parenting skills.

          Dogs are great companions, but they are much more maintenance than cats — I’m sure you already know that though. Just be aware of that going in. Choose a breed that will fit in with your lifestyle. Like if you’re not really active, then don’t choose some kind of hunting dog that loves to roam and run.

      2. Kelly L.*

        Yeah, I lost a beloved dog in the fall of ’12 and I miss her every day and yet there are definitely ways my life is easier without a dog: I was able to move really quickly when my living situation became untenable without months of trying to find a place that would let me rent with the dog (she was a “scary breed”), I can stay out as late as I want, I can take trips without arranging pet-sitting, and my upholstery is definitely much cleaner…

      3. De Minimis*

        My wife and I are in a similar situation….my father-in-law passed away a few years ago and we have his dogs who are both at the geriatric stage. They’ve been part of our lives for a long time [my father-in-law lived with us for the last 6 years of his life] but they can be pretty difficult and expensive now that their health is more of a concern. We bought a home recently that is not really set up well for the dogs and that’s been a big pain to deal with. Neither my wife nor I are big dog people but we’ve inadvertently become people whose lives revolve around their dogs, just due to our living situation. We love the dogs and will miss them when they’re gone, but I think both of us will be glad to have a break from animals for at least a few years…and probably not ever have dogs again, they just aren’t a fit.

    6. Victoria Nonprofit*

      … I feel awkward even asking this, but: Does anyone ever feel this way about their kids? ‘Cause that’s what I’m afraid of, if we decide to have kids. What if we end up not liking parenting? It’s not something you can change your mind about after the fact.

      1. hildi*

        Even though we’re not there yet, I bet the answer is yes. And I would suspect it’s linked more to a phase–that either the kids or you (or both, really) are going through. Which, the good news is that they are not forever (phases). I think that’s what I’m feeling about the pets right now. They fit, they were awesome, and we were ok with them at a different phase of our life. Now we are here with a totally different set of priorities and desires and the pets don’t fit. Which is why I say that I can’t get rid of them, because I still love them and care for them and it’s my obligation as their person to take care of them. But I’m just not thrilled with them right now. I’m sure peopel feel that about their teens – but there’s a mysterious bond between parent and child that overcomes all of that. Otherwise most of us wouldn’t have survived our teens. :)

      2. Sunflower*

        I feel this way too. I was googling something and I ended up on a forum about people saying they are tired of being parents and am terrified this will happen to me! I’m convinced all parents feel this way at some point but it’s taboo to talk about it

      3. Darth Admin*

        Parent here, and yes – there are days when I’d like to run away. But those moments are (for me) fleeting and far between. Plus, much like pets, just when I’m most exasperated with my kid, he’ll go and do something hilarious or sweet or otherwise wonderful and all is well again.

        Point being, no one is thrilled with everything, all the time.

      4. Lily in NYC*

        I love my niece to bits but she caused me to realize I should not have kids. She is a smart, well-behaved, adorable 10-year old but I still can only handle her in finite doses of time. It has nothing to do with her – she’s fantastic. It was an eye-opener that if I can’t be around such a great kid for more than a long weekend without going nuts, then I should not be a parent. But I also got no maternal twinges around her (or any kid). That was also an eye-opener.

        1. Ann Furthermore*

          This is such a cliche, but it really is different when it’s your own child. And you shouldn’t just write off the possibility. I never thought I wanted to have kids, and never had any strong maternal urges. Plus I had some kind of messed up crap happen in my childhood, and I thought I wouldn’t be a good parent, like I’d be continuing the cycle.

          Then I met my husband, and a couple years after we got married, I realized that it wasn’t that I didn’t have maternal urges, I just hadn’t met a person that made me think having a child was a good idea. Fast forward, and we now have a 5 year old daughter that we love to pieces.

          I wouldn’t change a thing, but I do wish I had not closed myself off to the possibility for so long. I didn’t have my daughter until I was 41, and although we could have tried for another, and I wanted to, getting pregnant at that age is kind of scary because there is more potential for complications. And I had a few when I was pregnant with my daughter. I asked my husband if he wanted to try for another, and he said that he thought we’d probably used up our good baby karma on the child we had, and we should just be thankful for what we have. I figured he was right.

          1. Lily in NYC*

            Thanks for such a thoughtful post. I am 41 so it resonates. I also recently found out that there is a 50% chance that I will inherit my dad’s fatal genetic condition, and that any child I have will also have a 50% chance. So add that to being ambivalent, and it’s a no-brainer for me. I don’t mean to sound morbid, I have come to terms with it and wake up happy every day.

            1. Ann Furthermore*

              No, it doesn’t sound morbid, it sounds sensible and realistic. I’m sorry that’s something that is part of your life though. But your outlook is what I would hope mine would be, because the only other choice would be to get angry and be pissed off about it, which really doesn’t accomplish anything.

      5. Ann Furthermore*

        Oh, there are days when you’d like to just be free of your kids, believe me. And like hildi said, it’s usually because of a phase either you or they are going through. Do I love being a parent when my daughter is having a tantrum about picking up her toys? No, I really don’t. I just have to grit my teeth and get through it. But then she’ll go to bed, I’ll have a few hours of peace and quiet before I go to sleep, and then we wake up and it’s a new day and a fresh start.

        1. College Career Counselor*

          +7(pm bedtime) That’s when my parents used to make us go to sleep (often when, where we lived, there was another 2.5 hours of daylight, which made that challenging).

          It was not until I had children myself that I realized the early bedtime was NOT (solely) for our benefit, but for theirs. They wanted some time when we were out of the picture to relax and recharge.

      6. Jen RO*

        This is one of the reasons I’m never having kids. (Though I am very happy with my cats and I can’t imagine giving them away even when they are at their most annoying!)

      7. Xay*

        Yes, parenting is exhausting and more than once I have looked around and wondered what I got myself into. That’s why parents invented sleepovers, overnight summer camp, and Grandma’s house. I love my son dearly and I wouldn’t trade him for anything, but when he and Dad went away for Spring Break last week while I stayed home and worked it was a breath of fresh air.

    7. Stryker*

      Definitely feel this as a NEW pet owner, which makes me feel icky. Our dog has severe separation anxiety and we just got him from a foster mom who stayed at home all day and had like five other dogs.

      Now it’s just me and my bf for his new pack, and we have to work during the day. I guess it’s a good thing we were planning on new carpet in the living room, but it’s so disheartening to come home to a wagging dog tail and half your carpet ripped up into fuzzies.

      I wonder what we’ve gotten ourselves into sometimes. It’s not like we can give him up–his next owner will have a similar problem and we love him now–but still… Glad to know I’m not alone in this.

      1. O*

        I’d suggest, if you’re able, since he’s so used to other dogs around and having people around, take him to a daycare facility, even just once or twice a week will probably help. It’ll give him exercise and socialize him since he’s used to being around other dogs.

      2. John*

        You might also want to consult with a behaviorist. We have (and are currently) consulted with some great ones at Tufts Veterinary School, and they do it from a distance.

        Last dog had separation anxiety and had to go through training and doggie Prozac. And daycare was a huge help, as well.

        It can feel like there is no light at the end of the tunnel but, in restrospect, it is amazing how quickly she adapted and became the world’s greatest dog. RIP.

    9. Celeste*

      Yes, first when I had my daughter, and again now that my older cat (a male) has not just strong but copious urine output. (He isn’t ill, it’s just how they can be). It is A JOB keeping up with the litterbox now.

    10. LMW*

      I love my dog to death (I sometimes freak out realizing she’s already 8 and we’re probably more than halfway through our time together), but it’s hard to be completely responsible for another creature (pets or kids). It requires energy and attention. And that can get old even when they are perfectly behaved. So it’s totally normal to feel that way when things start to get rough.
      I actually think this applies to kids and the elderly too. You can love them and be committed to taking care of them, but it can be frustrating and exhausting too. You are entitled to your feelings, whatever they are. And it’s much better to acknowledge those feelings to yourself than letting them boil over and showing them to your pet, kid, grandma with Alzheimers, etc.
      I try to think of it this way: Those awesome times, when the pets were your babies? You pay them back for that by putting up with the frustrations that stack up at the end.

    11. Parfait*

      do take kitty to the vet and make sure there’s no medical issues. sometimes they’ll pee in inappropriate places when they’re sick.

    12. abby*

      I haven’t read all the comments and maybe this has been suggested to you already.

      Cat who is peeing and pooping outside the box: Sometimes this is behavioral, sometimes it’s medical. Such as a urinary tract problem or constipation, both very serious problems in cats. This cat should get checked out by a vet to make sure it’s not a medical problem.

      Cat who is barfing: Probably not behavioral- who on earth wants to barf?? One of my cats used to barf on occasion, then started barfing more frequently. It turned out that something was very, very wrong. We still don’t know exactly what was wrong, didn’t want to do an endoscopy to get a definite diagnosis, but we suspect food allergy or sensitivity and changing his food did wonders. Frequent barfing can also be a sign of other medical problems.

      Not what you wanted to read, I am sure, as cats with medical issues are a lot of work. Hoping for your sake this is not the cause for either cat.

    13. Not So NewReader*

      Sounds like some aging issues going on there– unfortunately all three animals are doing it at the same time.

      I think you’re pretty normal. Animals are a commitment and unlike kids they don’t grow up and move out.

      I don’t have kids, but when my beloved dog was aging and having so.many. issues. I had a tough time with that. I did as much as I could but when they are older it’s not as much fun as when they are younger. I spent more time worrying than I did enjoying in the end- that was the worst part. I almost felt relieved when he died. That sounds horrible- but all things considered: his pain/discomfort and my inability to provide a major relief for him plus my sorrow about that…. On his last morning, I knew it was time to let go of him. And so did he.

      I think there is a season for everything. You may have a small pet later on in life. Or not. I do believe that animals teach us about ourselves and I think yours are helping you define yourself and your life. Nothing is wasted here.

  49. Jubilance*

    Just a few quick notes:

    1-I know 5+ people who have voluntarily my company since I started about 18 months ago, and 3 have left with no job lined up. While my job isn’t completely unbearable, I’m unhappy and I’m wasting my talent. My company has a lot of issues and I don’t see myself having a long-term career here. I’m going to start taking a look and seeing what else is out there.

    2- I’m getting married :-) Having a nerd-themed Pi Day wedding (3/14/15). So far we’ve got the big stuff out of the way – venue, caterer, photographer, DJ, but I’d love some tips/resources if anyone has them.

    2. KTM*

      Congratulations!! No specific tips here but we got married last October and I found apracticalwedding.com and offbeatbride.com to be awesome resources (we also had a nerdy type wedding) Have fun!

    3. fposte*

      Sorry the job is still kind of sour, but many congratulations on the festivities! I have no tips or resources, but I love the Pi Day wedding.

    5. Ann Furthermore*

      Congratulations!!

      For your bridesmaids — you pick the color, and let them pick the dress style. That way everyone can wear something they’ll be comfortable and feel good in. I did this, and just went to David’s Bridal, as it’s a national chain and a couple of my bridesmaids lived in other states. This is a pretty common thing to do anymore, and maybe you’re already planning to do it, but it’s always my first piece of advice. I’ve spent more time than I care to admit wearing something I would never pick for myself, and then feeling horribly self-conscious during the whole wedding and reception. Ugh.

      Also, you said you’ve already lined up a DJ, but what we did for music was create a huge list on my iPod, and let that play during the reception. It was at my parents’ house, and we didn’t have any formal dance floor or anything like that, so it was just background music. But we started off with slower, easy-going stuff early on, and then graduated to rowdier music later in the evening when the older relatives had left and it was just the younger crowd left. So — if you’re not planning to do the traditional dancing, etc, this is a great alternative to save a little money.

      We did our reception kind of as a glorified cocktail party, so all our food was hors d’oeuvre type stuff. This was out of necessity — since it was at my parents’ house, there was not enough room to have a formal sit-down dinner. But what was nice about that was that it really helped facilitate people mingling, talking, and socializing, instead of groups of people staking out their table and then just hanging out with each other.

      Do your bachelor/bachelorette parties a couple weeks out, so both you and your fiance can let loose, get as wild and crazy as you want, with no worries about being hung over for the big day!

      My husband and I agreed that we would alternate a soda after every alcoholic drink we had, so that we wouldn’t be sloppy drunk at the reception and embarrass ourselves. This was a great call — we both ended up with a “happy” kind of buzz, but nothing regrettable. And, we had an open bar, but told the bartenders that shots of any kind were banned. Trouble and drama at weddings always seems to happen after people start doing shots.

      And — DON’T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF. This is supposed to be a fun, joyful time! Remember to have fun when doing the really cool stuff like cake tastings, registering for gifts, your shower, and bachelorette party.

      I’m sure whatever you do will be lovely!

    6. Mimmy*

      Congrats on your engagement!! Your wedding theme sounds really clever!

      My tip that I tell everyone: Take in every moment of the prep and the day itself…you want to enjoy the memories and not get buried under the stress of everything. I was SO nervous in the moments before going down the aisle, but once it got going, I just took the time to truly enjoy the day (wow…I’m actually tearing up thinking about it).

    7. Ann Furthermore*

      And I think you should have wedding pie instead of wedding cake! Or a cake done up to look like a pie. :)

      1. Parfait*

        Absolutely on the pie. I went to a wedding with several flavors of pie and it was the BEST. And I say that as a life member of Team Cake.

    8. Ed Zachary*

      You lucky ducky. Next year’s PI day is 3/14/15 9:26:53.58. That’s the first 12 digits of PI! So you need to pause the celebration at 9:26 and have an announcement at exactly the right moment. Let us all know how it goes.

      Also, you wedding pi must be in the shape of a semicircle. As we all know a full circle is 2pi, or tau (6.28318530718). Pics or it didn’t happen. :)

    9. Jubilance*

      Thank you everyone :-)

      We chose Pi Day because we’re both in the sciences (he’s a mathematician) and we’re both pretty nerdy. We don’t want to overdue the nerd theme of the wedding, but we’ve figured out a few things which I’m excited about. We are still having wedding cake, but the wedding favors will be mini-pies in various flavors – I figured those would be more appreciated than some of the random stuff you see as wedding favors.

    10. Mephyle*

      Here’s an idea for anyone who’s not big on dancing (if there are any such people – I know there must be because my daughter and son-and-law aren’t fond of dancing.) So since they are serious board game enthusiasts, what they did at their wedding was to have board games instead. I confess we were very sceptical that people would take to it, but we were proved wrong, I’m glad to say. The board games were a big success, and also helped people from the different friend and family groups to mix with each other.

  50. KTM*

    I couldn’t wait for the open thread this week to tell this story! My husband came home this week and told me that during a manager’s ‘Attendance Policy’ meeting he went to, he found out that his company retains a private investigator specifically for the purposes of checking if employees are abusing FMLA to take time off. Not just ‘has hired one in the past’ but actually pays to retain one. Right after he told me that I was like ‘is that legal’?? Which of course meant I had to post it here (and I’m guessing yes, it’s creepy, but legal).

    1. fposte*

      Wow, that’s…creepy. I don’t know about the legality either, but my guess is that it would depend on what they actually did.

      1. Ann Furthermore*

        Creepy, and I have to think a huge waste of money. It can’t be cheap to have a PI on retainer, and it would be interesting to know the cost of that compared to the cost of people allegedly abusing their FMLA.

        I could see having a PI to investigate repeated disability/workmen’s comp type of claims, but FMLA? That just seems weird.

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, worker’s comp was what I was thinking of, to the point where I wondered if the relationship started that way and one side or another expanded it to FMLA.

            1. fposte*

              The company has no power over the doctor, though, just over the employee, and even if the doctor were corrupt it wouldn’t prove the person wasn’t entitled to FMLA.

            2. AVP*

              Not sure if you heard about the huge NYPD disability fraud case recently, but in that case it was dozens of people going to different doctors, and millions of dollars, so I guess it was worth the investigation costs in that particular case. But I highly doubt that’s what’s going on for KTM’s husband!

    2. AndersonDarling*

      Bizarre! I’d bet the PI is a friend of the CEO and needed a job.
      I would think there would need to be a clause in the handbook stating that all employees will be investigated when taking FMLA.
      What is a PI going to find out that a call to the employee’s doctor won’t uncover. If I am taking FMLA for mental health issues and go on holiday to relax, will the PI determine I am cheating? Weird.

    3. OriginalYup*

      WHOA. That is….just…wow…so many thoughts.

      I seriously have nothing useful to contribute here. I’m just wildly contemplating either the stuff that must have gone done in the past or the Hoover-like paranoia that exists at the management level. ON RETAINER. That is spectacular.

    5. Lily in NYC*

      Interesting! What kind of firm is it? I know management consulting firms do this sometimes becuase of how they are structured. Entry level hires either get promoted in two years to associate or they are highly encouraged to leave. Apparently it’s an epidemic – when people realize they aren’t going to get promoted they “develop” carpal tunnel, get a fake doctor’s note from an MD friend, and take 6 months off so they can job search (knowing it’s the end of the line for them). I know of one firm that has a full time investigator to deal with these claims.

    6. Grace*

      I don’t know what state you are in and laws vary. (You can also post your question for free for employment attorneys in your state to answer on www dot avvo dot com .) I do work in law and I always tell people that if they ever use Workers’ Comp to expect to be put under surveillance by the insurance companies. If they don’t like the surveillance photos (person claiming back injury remodeling a home or carrying a 100 pound of dog food from the store)…expect to also face felony prosecution by the district attorney for insurance fraud. And yes, I’ve seen several people go to prison for that and one get a hung jury.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Decades ago, my husband did activity checks as part of being an insurance adjuster.
      I assume this is more of that same concept.

      Well okay, let’s assume Bob is taking FMLA to attend to his dying father. (Bob’s a busy guy on this forum.) Now how the heck does that investigator prove that Bob is doing something nefarious? Anyone who has ever taken care of a terminally ill parent KNOWS this can put you any place at any time doing absolutely anything. Suppose dad wants to go for a ride on a nice day. “Gee, Dad, love to take you – but I have this investigator that follows me around all the time….”

      How is one investigator going to keep up with Bob? Bob could go home but get called in the middle of the night. So the next morning the investigator goes back to Bob’s house and finds out he is not home- for three days! (Makes sense because Dad got move to a hospital that is 50-75 miles away and Bob is sleeping at the hospital.)

      What a huge waste of money. I wonder why managers are not aware of what goes into taking care of a sick family member.

  51. Carrie in Scotland*

    What was good/bad for you this week?

    Good: Free chocolate bunny from the people who run the building.

    Bad: V slow work week (due to loads of people being on holiday) and also, my cat threw up in my (very) new shoes =(

    1. Meghan*

      Good: My insufferable boss was away for most of the week.

      Bad: My puppy is 50% blind in one eye due to a run in with a horse last fall.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Good: I have a ton of PTO I can (have to) take and it’s finally warming up. Yay warm!

      Bad: I only get to roll 40 hours of PTO over at fiscal year end, so I won’t be able to take ANY between now and my vacation, in order to earn enough to cover it. Also, I don’t really have anywhere to go right now.

    3. SimpleeInspired*

      Good: One week left in my final semester of college.
      Bad: My ChemE exam and waiting for after interview callbacks.

      1. Stryker*

        :) Keep your chin up! You’ve been taking a class all semester for the ChemE exam, and hopefully you know more than when you started, so I’m sure you’ll do fine! (That said, exams suck and I still feel for you.)

        And interview callbacks mean that you had an interview in the first place, so there’s that. Keeping my fingers crossed for you! :)

        1. SimpleeInspired*

          Haha, thanks! I’m just getting antsy waiting for my academic career to FINALLY come to an end. Four years of the engineering curriculum is grueling.

    4. Stephanie*

      Good: I got an A on my midterm (for the class I’m taking) and a “good job” from the professor.

      Bad: Turns out the restaurant I picked out for my birthday dinner (probably) gave me gastroenteritis. I spent the following day running between the couch and the bathroom.

    5. Stryker*

      Good: I sewed a linen shirt all by myself, and the sleeves are still attached.

      Bad: One of my email newsletters for work only got a 3% Click through rate, which is low for us. :/ Darnit, gotta work harder!

    6. Victoria Nonprofit*

      Good: I’m starting to shirt over to my new role, and it’s really fun to start digging into my new projects and responsibilities.

      Bad: One of my projects in past role took a quick, hard turn for the worse. I’m not sure yet what to do about it. I feel like a failure!

      1. Victoria Nonprofit*

        Um, shirt = shift. It took me a minute to even remember what I was trying to say there.

    7. C average*

      Good: I got my GMAT scores back and came very close to acing the verbal, integrated reasoning, and writing assessment portions.

      Bad: I’m in the 13th percentile (no, that is not a typo) for the quantitative.

      I’m going to hire a math tutor to try to bring up my quant score so that my overall results aren’t so shockingly lopsided. I’ve always been freakishly good at verbal stuff and worse than average at math, but this is the worst I’ve ever done on the math part of a standardized test.

      1. Stryker*

        :/ I’m sorry to hear that. Better luck with a tutor! Still, not everyone’s good at everything, and how long has it been since you studied? I tried doing some of the new sample math SAT questions and bombed it, but it’s been six years since I did serious algebra…

      2. Stephanie*

        Standardized test math is weird and seems to be more about applying tricks than actual knowledge. No shame in getting a tutor! And I’m sure the GMAT candidate pool is pretty math-inclined to being with.

      3. Lucy*

        That sounds SO similar to me with the GRE! I got my results back and was so excited about the verbal sections- but the math was even more dismal than I expected. Oh well, congratulations to you!

    8. Rye-Ann*

      Good: I finished, printed, and distributed my thesis to my committee! Yay!

      Bad: It turns out I have to reschedule my thesis defense and it’s not going well because there’s more or less no time when five faculty members can get together for 2.5 hours! :\ As a result I might have to delay graduating until August. :(

    9. LPBB*

      Good: I found out yesterday that I’m doing even better than I thought I was in my job and they are planning on training me in some other products soon.

      Bad: My fiance and I got the quote from the venue we want to use for our wedding – it was at least $1000 more than our friends paid for that venue (of course it was 4 years ago, but still) and officially busted our budget.

      1. I Love Books*

        Good: just found out a beloved staff member at work who quit a year ago is coming back on board since we have new management. yay!!!!

        Bad: Still house hunting (rentals) for June. I’m so antsy to move. The people (leasing office AND other residents) hate us, and I feel like they’re looking for a reason to kick us out. Grr.

    10. Darth Admin*

      Good: I went through my giant to-do list and got much more organized, thus removing stress from my (work)life.

      Bad: Kid and husband sick, and I’m trying to fight it off.

    11. Xay*

      Good: The semester is almost over and I am looking forward to a lighter summer workload.

      Bad: I have a plan that I need to stick to for school and family reasons, but I’m getting bored and restless in my current job. I can’t afford to blow up the plan to change jobs so I’m trying to make do, but I wish I could get on the job market instead.

    12. EA*

      Good: I installed a new irrigation timer to replace the old one (2 of the 4 buttons weren’t worrking), and nothing blew up.

      Bad: I checked my company’s internal job postings, and only 1 out of 110 in my state is something that I’d be good at. (I’ve been with this company for 9 years, and there is a good amount of internal movability, and I like the company, just not my present role within the company)

      Also Bad: Our team has 2 “co-managers”, and in our official org chart, I’ve been switched to be under the one that doesn’t know I’m job searching (they’re part of the reason that I’m searching).

      1. EA*

        (incomplete thought) So now, if I do apply for the 1 job that I’m a good fit for, NewManager will be notified about it.

  52. Annie O*

    Any advice for working for a boss who does not stay up to date with technology and the latest systems that all employees are supposed to use?

    1. Stryker*

      Hit them over the head with a manual?

      (Sorry, couldn’t help myself.)

      Um, have you tried finding instructional videos? Even if they don’t watch them right away, at least they have a resource when they run into problems that’s not a hard-to-read instruction packet.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Good boss or bad boss?

      If this is going to involve lots of arguing- then do what it takes to keep your life peaceful and calm.

      If the boss is nice but overwhelmed- just show him little things as they come up. “Oh boss, wanna see an easy way to do that? This will take to seconds to show you and it will make life easier.”

  53. anonymous for this one*

    How do I fix the bad impression my awful boss left of me without badmouthing her?

    I had a horrible, horrible manager who left about eight months ago. Under the guise of helping raise my visibility in the organization to help my career, she loaded me UP with work (70-80 hour workweeks, on salary, no pay raise), then refused to help me prioritize any of it. In a crisis (there were several), she’d tell me quantity was more important than quality, but then later she’d berate me for mistakes I made while rushing to get six hours of work done in two. She was personally disorganized and constantly distracted and would dump things on me at the last minute (and I found out later, would throw me under the bus when problems happened). She told other managers that I don’t work well under stress and am overly emotional at work (I cried, twice.)

    She worked for my company for almost 2 decades, she has a lot of influence in the industry and a lot of friends here still. She’s brilliant at what we do, just a horrible manager, but few people who didn’t work for her realize that. Working for her is still hurting me. There was a pay scale/job title redo in my field shortly after she left, and I *know* I ended up in a lower pay grade/job title than I deserve, because of the impression of me she left with the management team. (I recently successfully negotiated to have that reviewed at midyear). I’m struggling with how to get rectify my bad reputation without badmouthing her. I’m also at a loss on how to address this if I apply for other jobs – I don’t want people to contact her, but she’s so well known they might even if I don’t list her as a reference.

    I am personally still trying to recover. My workload is better but still at about 60 hours/week instead of the 40-45 it should be. It’s really hard to get things off your plate once they’re there. I spent a few months in therapy. As a result of the whole mess, I’ve become a lot less passive about my own career development process, and a lot more critical of the “opportunities” presented to me. I no longer agree to try to achieve the impossible alone with the understanding that it might not work out perfectly and mistakes are ok – I try to turn those situations into team efforts now where we all agree what is important and what isn’t, and if the situation can’t be saved, we all know why and how that happened. It was a hard lesson to learn!

    1. fposte*

      Wow, anon, that’s really sucky, and I can understand how that’s both psychologically and organizationally hard to get past.

      A person who seems really relevant here is your current manager. What are the limits on your candor there? Can you at least talk to her about delegating some of the workload?

      1. anonymous for this one*

        Yes! I really like my new manager, but I sense that dumping on the old manager to her would be a mistake. I have discussed my workload with her and we are in the process of hiring an additional person to relieve me and a couple of other people who are similarly overwhelmed.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Sounds like your new manager gets it. Why not just emphasize the good things and if anyone asks, you can say that it was a busy time but you learned a lot about yourself in handling a heavy workload? That takes it off the manager and you won’t have to badmouth her.

          And I can see why you cried. Good Lord. I would cry too.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Other people were also overwhelmed?

          Just let this sit. Give it a year plus/minus. I think people around you will start changing their tune. Let the facts speak for themselves. It takes awhile for these things to sink in but eventually people do figure out “what we thought was so good, might not be so hot after all.”

          If it’s possible ask the new boss if you can sit down and talk about your work at some point. Tell her something like “I would like to get better evaluations.” Or whatever fits your setting. Start small like that. I am betting that your reputation will change soon AND you will probably find out that most of your team has the same concern. OldBoss had one bucket of tar and one brush- and she tarred and feathered everyone.

          For the moment do what you gotta do to reweave YOU. Invest in yourself. (For me that would mean a massage therapist!) Do your version of that.

  54. Chris*

    So I just experienced my first group interview, and it was pretty awful. They sat us all in a row, and the entire interview was dominated by the loud theatrical guy at one end. And I’m not so much shy as reserved, so I felt like I was being judged every time the questioning moved onto me and my answer was less…wordy(?) than the others in the group.

    Also they all talked about their kids, spouses, and other awkward topics…I have no kids, no spouse, no house…uh, I love my cat dearly? Not a fan of this interviewing setup.

    1. Peeps Galore!*

      You have my sympathy. :( Personally, I don’t feel like “personal” topics belong anywhere in the interview process (i.e. kids, family, spouses, etc.) unless it directly affects the job (i.e. If you’re going to be traveling 80% of the time and you’re a single parent, will you have adequate support to take care of your household duties?).

      I think this is where culture can play a big role in interviewing. If you don’t feel like you connect with the interviewers, that’s one thing. But if you take a look around the organization and notice that it’s very “family-friendly” and that makes you uncomfortable/left out, it might not be the best organization for you.

      (I’m speaking from personal experience – I’m in the same boat as you and I’ve actually worked places where people thought there was something “wrong” with me because I wasn’t married/didn’t have children.)

    2. Looking for new career*

      Group interview? I had no idea these existed. Yikes! I hope I dodge that bullet when I start interviewing.

    3. Amy B.*

      I have only been on one of those and it was odd. There were 12 of us sitting around a table and one manager interviewing us. He asked the same question of every person. I had never experienced anything like that before so I just pretended the other people were not there and tried to not let their answers influence what I was going to say. Only two of us were hired from that group. The gregarious, overly confident guy was not one of them.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Why were they talking about their home lives?
      ugh.

      I think if you answered the questions you did your best. Maybe research this company a little more? Maybe this is a pink flag?

  55. Peeps Galore!*

    Yesterday, my supervisor mentioned that the VP of our area would like to meet with more people from our area for one on one sessions. The VP has been doing these meetings for more than a year.

    Trying to do my part, I have set up (no exaggeration) five different meetings with the VP. VP accepts and has to cancel each time. I know stuff happens, but it’s a little disheartening at the same time.

    On a personal note, I do not care for the VP. He is rude, crude, and unethical. I do not trust him. My supervisor knows how I feel (and feels similarly) but is still encouraging me to set up a time to meet. Supervisor is aware that I’ve set up five different meetings and they have been cancelled by the VP.

    I’m going to reach out one more time and then I’m done. Any advice for how to handle moving forward or how to handle the meeting (if it actually helps)? The VP has been known to be blunt during these meetings, asking pointed questions like, “Do you trust me?”

    1. Chris*

      Personally, I wouldn’t reach out again. The ball is really in his court- and I understand the frustration. Some people have commitment issues with scheduling- as in, it is impossible to schedule with them because they aren’t willing to make your time their commitment.

    2. SA*

      I’d send VP a polite email copying your manager explaining that because it’s been difficult for your schedules to align you will leave it up to him to schedule a meeting at a convenient time.

      If you have the meeting you could bring something to review with him – a project you worked on or list of accomplishments. Sometimes having something to look at can make a meeting less awkward as you aren’t staring at each other the entire time.

    3. Nancypie*

      You may have already tried this, but just in case: try scheduling the first meeting of the day. I find myself having to cancel “nice to attend” meetings over “have to attend” things because of fires that popped up throughout the day. But I almost always manage to do what I intend to do if it’s scheduled in the morning (because things tend to catch on fire later in the day, at least where I work).

  56. Noelle*

    My new office is the stingiest I have ever worked when it comes to vacation time. I’m 7 years into my career and yet I get only 10 vacation days a year and no sick leave/maternity leave.

    Today I was excited because we actually get a half day for Good Friday. But my supervisor is now bragging about how HE deserved the half day because he came in at 8, but WE don’t because we didn’t come in early.

    Give me the half day or don’t, whatever. Just don’t try to guilt trip me for using a benefit I’m supposed to be entitled to.

    2. matcha123*

      That sounds like the place I just quit:

      10 days of PTO after 6 months. PTO has to be used on the days that the company closes for New Year’s and mid-year summer break.
      Have to apply at least one day in advance for a paid day off, meaning if you wake up sick and can’t go in, you don’t get paid. grrr

      1. Noelle*

        Yeah, this place also doesn’t have sick leave so if I do get sick I’d have to take it out of my vacation days. It’s also a salaried position, but once I started I discovered that I was expected to work 9 hours every day instead of 8. I know none of these are huge deals but it seems so stingy.

  57. Bryan*

    I’m helping my finance in his job search and there have been some state jobs that he would be a good fit for but there is an application fee. I think they’re awful but does anyone have any additional insights on them?

    1. fposte*

      Geez, I hadn’t heard of that. That really sucks, and it seems like it would preclude low-income candidates in a way that seems highly problematic for a state job.

      So no insight, just WTF?

    2. Stryker*

      oh my god. An app fee to apply at a state job? Why the hell are they doing that? What are they claiming the fee’s for? Jeez Louise…

    3. Elizabeth West*

      What? I’ve never paid an app fee to apply to a state job (or city). Is the job listing through a company or job board that is collecting the fee? If so, I’d try applying directly. Most states and municipalities have online options or at least information about where to go and fill out an app (for free).

      If not, and it is the state collecting the fees, I don’t know what to tell you.

      1. Bryan*

        It’s through the state’s website. It’s so incredibly frustrating because you see a job that you’re a good match for but then you have to pay to apply.

    4. Annie O*

      Yes, it’s legal in most states. I’m seeing it more often in gov’t jobs, especially those that require some sort of civil service assessments.

      1. Annie O*

        I think the thought process is that the testing and administrative fees would otherwise be paid by taxpayer dollars. And some agencies literally do not have budget to cover it.

        1. fposte*

          I wonder if there’s a waiver for indigent applicants. (Which might kill your application, but seriously, what kind of a hurdle is that to throw out?)

          1. Annie O*

            Yes, I’ve seen waivers for vets and folks on some sort of gov’t assistance. Not sure how common, consistent, or comprehensive these are.

      2. Stryker*

        Ick. Okay, but I personally wouldn’t apply to a job like that. Don’t know if anyone else would, but it feels…dirty, somehow.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      Is it legit? I mean, it sounds like a fake job posting/website. Those job scams make job descriptions that reach a large audience and sound great. I’d be cautious.

      1. Bryan*

        It’s through the state’s website. It’s dumb and awful and to the detriment of the state because good candidates might not pay the fee.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      NY is doing this.
      Yes, there is a form you can fill out if you can not pay the fee.

      I took one test and initially they said they would keep it on file for a year. Then I got a letter that said they changed their minds and would keep it on file for seven years. Whatever.

      If I had to guess, I think it is to keep down the number of applicants. It helps them to weed out the serious people. Eighty people sat for that test- and there aren’t even any openings. Yes, 80.

      My how the money rolls in.

  58. Mimmy*

    Blah!! I loved the AMA thread the other day–there were some really interesting jobs discussed! I thought for sure it’d help me figure out what I want to be when I grow up, but now I’m even more confused :( I just have a horrible habit of getting in my own way: I get excited about Career Path A, only to come up with some reason to discount the idea. Then..oooh! Career Path B!! Nope….same thing.

    It boils down to this: I need to focus on what I can do and enjoy doing, rather than what I CAN’T do.

    I know only I can fix this….I just needed to vent.

    1. The Other Dawn*

      I feel the same way! I saw some interesting things in that thread. I feel like maybe I have a little more direction now, but not much. Can’t seem to pinpoint what I want. I know what I want from a workplace, but am having trouble with the actual job itself.

      Good luck!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      You are not chosing forever and ever.

      Try framing it in terms of the next ten years. Just get yourself started with something that seems reasonable.

  59. thenoiseinspace*

    What are everyone’s best tips for informational interviews? I’m job-hunting cross-country and I’m about to plunge into asking people for informational interviews, but before I do, what do you guys say? How do you pick which person at a company to ask if you don’t have any connections to any of them? Do you pick a more senior person or one closer to your career level? Basically what do you wish you’d known before doing it yourself? And yes, I have read Alison’s previous posts on the matter, just looking for as many tips as possible…I have a tendency to be socially awkward, so I’m trying to minimize that from the get-go. :)

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Incompetent managers or people who don’t care about hiring (who are really a subset of the first group) sometimes do that, but good managers absolutely do not. Good managers want the best people on their teams, not the first ones who applied.

      1. Stryker*

        So it’s safe to apply in the “traditional,” requested manner that this woman’s pooh-poohing, under the premise that we want to work for the good ones anyway?

        2. CC*

          Um, wow. That reads like a snake oil sales pitch, right down to exhorting the reader to join their group (buy their product) and characterizing disagreement as fear of the truth at the end. (lovely reaction “meter”…)

          I have sent a resume and cover letter direct to a hiring manager before, but only in cases where the company does not have a system defined. If they specify a system, whether it’s “email careers@companyname.com” or “apply via our web interface” then use that.

          Not all existing procedures are the most efficient things they could be, but they’re usually there for a reason. (Sometimes it’s not a good reason, but there’s usually a reason.)

  61. An Adjuster*

    I would like some advice, please. I am one of thirty people competing for a prestigious and intense position. These jobs only open up every eight to ten years. When I applied, things were looking poor for my department. Since then, the changes we had hoped for have actually come to pass. I think it’s best that I withdraw gracefully from the competition for the other job. Would that make me look bad? Thanks in advance.

    1. Stryker*

      I shouldn’t think so, unless you’re considering reapplying in 10 years, in which case people more experienced than I should comment.

      That said, are you sure you want to stay in your current department? What’s to say these relatively-overnight changes won’t fail to take hold and the original reasons you wanted to leave the job for won’t come back in a year or two? I don’t know, it’s just food for thought.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      Not at all! They’d much rather know than waste time interviewing you if you are no longer interested. We have people pull out of candidacy all the time and I don’t think twice about it.

  62. SRMJ*

    Can anyone tell me what are typical standards for insurance/benefits? Like, I know a 90-day trial period before benefits begin is common. But what types of jobs does that usually apply to (most of mine, so far, incidentally)? And that for management positions, they can start immediately, or sometimes after thirty days. But I’m not really clear overall, I’d appreciate any info you might have!

    Oh, and on that note – say you take a job where coverage starts in 90 days. What do you do for the 90 days you don’t have employer covered insurance? Purchase your own for that time? Because you can’t keep your old employer’s insurance, correct? Or can you, if you pay the full premium or something?

    1. Stryker*

      I think there might be something call COBRA that’s supposed to help in hold-over situations like these. Also, for what it’s worth, I’m an entry level writer (salaried) and I qualified for insurance after 30 days, so the entry period can flux but I’m pretty sure it’s common.

    2. OriginalYup*

      What’s typical varies hugely by job type, industry, company size. Part time jobs might offer some benefits but not all, and not right away. Full time jobs tend to offer health/dental either starting on day 1 of employment (the ideal) or after a waiting period. In my field, 10-30 days is within the norm and 90 days would be considered really lengthy, but in high-turnover fields 90 days is often very typical. The start date for benefits is something that a hiring company should tell candidates as part of the whole compensation conversation — pay, time off, benefits, etc. If they don’t bring it up, you should feel free to ask because it’s a very normal question: “Can you tell me about your benefits package? What type of coverage and options do you provide, and when does a new hire become eligible?” Their answer should include stuff about medical/dental as well as short/long term disability and retirement plans, which often don’t kick in til 6 or 12 months of employment.

      You have the option to continue health coverage from a prior job into the waiting period of a new job through COBRA — you can find the basics on the dol.gov site.

    3. COT*

      Some insurance companies offer temporary policies to cover those gaps. Your state’s new health insurance exchange should also offer coverage during times when your employer doesn’t.

    4. kaz2y5*

      Check with HR of the place you are leaving, but I will tell you what I did in that situation (it was 5 yrs ago). I got a new job and it was going to be a couple of months before my insurance was active. I had a couple of meds that I took daily (not too expensive), but didn’t have any dr’s appointments scheduled during that time.

      I was eligible for COBRA, but the first payment didn’t have to be made for 90 days. Meaning, that as long as you paid for 3 months of insurance by day 90, the insurance would be retroactive to day 1. I kept the paperwork handy, but wasn’t going to pay the fees unless I ended up needing insurance before my new insurance kicked in. My new insurance started and I hadn’t been in a wreck or anything to run up huge bills so I just threw away my COBRA paperwork.

      Tl;dr–depending on your health and the timing of your new insurance and the 90 days for COBRA you can just keep it in reserve and not pay unless you need it.

  63. Noreaster*

    How do I help and support a good friend who has had a major medical-related work setback?

    He’s young, mid-to-late-twenties, but only had a few years of post-graduation working under his belt before he got Lyme. Had a particularly bad case of Lyme, plus was allergic to many standard treatments. It was sad to see him having to use a cane and in as much pain as he was. Finally found a top doctor in the field, had an extremely frightening procedure to hear about, and finally began to heal.

    Now he’s feeling better but has missed SO MUCH key career development time. Has a difficult/non-supportive family so they’re not helpful. I feel pretty bad for him – he was a bio major, chem minor with a seeming eye for business. I’m really hoping he’ll be able to recover from this, career-wise.

    Any advice? I’ll send him here, of course.

    1. Celeste*

      What a terrible setback!

      I think you should support him in going forward. I’m not sure it’s going to be helpful to compare himself to others who were able to be working in this time. He needs to focus on his goals and getting back on track. I think you can be a sounding board to cheer him on as he boards the on-ramp and gets back up to speed.

      You are a wonderful friend for sticking by him through it all. People with chronic health trouble find that it prunes their lives of many people; at first that’s hard, but in the end it shows who really cares.

    3. some1*

      A woman I went to high school with had Lyme disease. From what I can tell from her posts on FB, there’s a huge support group on Fb and elsewhere on the internet.

    4. Noreaster*

      Part of the problem is that he’s gotten some weird reactions when talking about his employment gap. Since Lyme isn’t that well understood, he’s gotten feedback a couple of times about how he must be making it up – surely it couldn’t be that serious. :(

      1. fposte*

        Don’t bother naming it. “Chronic disease under control now.”

        Some interpretations of Lyme are really scientifically controversial, and it could derail him to get somebody on either side.

      2. Celeste*

        I see, he needs to stop calling it Lyme. People think bug bite and it goes downhill from there. Time to fall back on generics.

        I don’t know if he is dealing with any kind of PTSD from his medical experience, but if so it can really help to talk to a therapist about it. If he can’t afford one, there is a great self-help book called “I Can’t Get Over It” that he can do as a workbook. Highly recommend. It combines some cognitive behavior help in there. I mention this because sometimes we go through these awful experiences, and it changes our demeanor. I’m not saying this is definitely an issue, but with the negative family I wonder if it might be. Something to think about, anyway.

  64. Ms Enthusiasm?*

    I’ve been working a long time and have a two page resume. One of the jobs listed on my resume starts on page one and is continued on page two. Content wise, it is probably not a big deal, but I’m thinking it might not be aesthetically pleasing. I did originally have it all on page one and I thought it looked really good but then I added a few more bullet points to both it and my most recent job which pushed part of this job on to page two. Again, I’m sure not a big deal but would this turn anyone off?

    1. Annie O*

      Not a deal breaker, but my own preference would be to have the job on one page instead of split across two.

    2. SimpleeInspired*

      I believe resumes are supposed to be one page max. I’ve also heard that there shouldn’t be more than 3 one sentence descriptions for each job.
      Is there any past jobs that you can take off? I often tweak my resume based on the job I’m applying to. Replacing certain experiences with jobs that fit in line with the skills the company is hiring for.
      FYI: I’m a senior in college so my resumes have been reviewed by the school’s career service and my professors. You have been warned =)

      1. Kit M.*

        Ms Enthusiasm mentioned that she’s been working a long time — she’s at a stage of her career that a two-page resume is appropriate. Your advisors are correct that it wouldn’t be appropriate for you. (However, personally, I’d say you can have more bullet points than three per job!)

      2. Lily in NYC*

        Simplee, resumes should only be one page for people just starting out in the working world without a ton of experience. It is completely fine, normal and expected to have a two-page resume after about 10 years of working.

      3. Bryan*

        You can also have more than 3 descriptions depending on what the job was and the layout of your resume. If you’re in a situation where you left a huge part of your accomplishments at your job out and have 3/4 of the page blank fill it up.

    4. Persephone Mulberry*

      Oh man, this would make me crazy, but I acknowledge that I’m incredibly anal about details like that. FWIW, it doesn’t bother me so much on other people’s resumes unless it’s like ONE line that falls to page 2. Tweak your margins, your font sizes, your line spacing – SOMETHING, just get that line back with rest of the job where it belongs. (This is also why I prefer to use PDF, so that my very careful formatting doesn’t get overridden on the other end!)

      So anyway, is the split pretty even, at least – is about half the info on page 2? If so, I wouldn’t worry about it – if it’s just a couple trailing lines, I’d see if there were other places I could tweak to fix it.

      1. fposte*

        There’s even a technical term for the one-line thing–that’s a widow, and if it’s only one line on the preceding page, that’s an orphan (some sources say it the other way around).

        1. Frieda*

          To be more confusing, sometimes an orphan refers to when the last line of a paragraph is shorter than the indent of the following paragraph. And Chicago Manual says that the first line of a paragraph ending a page is OK now (though it wasn’t in the previous edition, I believe). yay proofreaders!

          1. fposte*

            I think people just love the terms so much that they stick them on anything that feels appropriate to them.

            And I always fear changes in the Manual.

      2. Ms Enthusiasm?*

        Yes, all the info is split evenly between the two pages. And, unfortunately, there is more than one line of this particular job that goes to the next page or I would have tried to get it all on one page. I can think about taking some bullet points out depending on what job I might be applying to. I added the additional info to tailor it to the jobs I’m applying to but didn’t think about removing any of the info.

        1. MJ*

          Play with your margins, font sizes and spacing until you can get that job all on one page. I am not sure what job you are applying for, but I would expect applicants at most positions where I work to be able to use software to create the best presentation possible on a resume.

      3. danr*

        Good old Wordperfect has a feature called “Make it fit”. You can either let it run automatically or set some restrictions. It will adjust the spacing between letters and shave the spacing between lines. It’s amazing what it can do. The problem is that you can’t open an adjusted page in Word since it will generally go weird.

  65. SA*

    Does anyone else feel like their team sees them as a personal help desk? I often get questions about how to do something in one of the corporate systems (procurement, expense, Outlook) that I may or may not know. If I do know I tell them but if I don’t some expect me to find out instead of them looking it up on their own.

    I do push back but wonder if it’s just my team and I am inadvertently sending out signals that I want them to come to me instead of figuring stuff out on their own. Everyone on my team has been working in a corporate setting at least 10 years so it’s not that they are new to any of this.

    1. Celeste*

      I think many freeloaders look for that nice person who will make it easier for them. I would practice being busy, saying you’re sorry but you just don’t know how to help them with their problem, and maybe even refer some of them to any online tutorials your company has for these things. Anything to get the message out that you can’t fix this for them.

    2. Rebecca*

      Yes. I’ve tried to show people how to do things, so they can do it themselves the next time, and I’ve actually had people say “I don’t need to remember this, I can just ask you when I need to do it”. So frustrating.

      I’m no computer wiz, but I read things, and I set up my own home network with three different OS’s, a wireless router, and a USB printer. I am trying to learn Windows 8. I bought an Android tablet and am so far successful with that. I browse online forums about Excel, since I use that a lot in my job, to try to learn new and better ways to do things.

      I don’t want to be the older worker who falls behind, technology wise. That’s a very bad position to put oneself in, especially in this day and age.

    3. AVP*

      If I get one more request to fix the company website from someone who is just as qualified to fix it as I am I might hide under my desk.

      In other words, yes. It really makes me NOT want to help people with new things, even if I’m the best-placed person to do it, because apparently fixing something one time for someone makes you the go-to person for the rest of your life!

    4. CrazyCatLady*

      Ugh, yes I hate this. And I’m not inherently more knowledgeable than they are. My response a lot of times is “I’m not sure, but I can Google it!” Kind of passive aggressive but I hope they’ll realize that they too can Google it.

    5. MJ*

      Oooh! My kids used to do that to me! Your help is too convenient. When people ask for help, you might try saying, “I’d love to help you. Can you come back at 4:00 (or tomorrow morning)?” Some may wait for your help, but many will find their own way to solve the problem.

    6. SA*

      Thanks all! I had 3 people come to me today so I was a bit frustrated when I wrote this. I definitely fall into the people pleaser category and I have to toughen up.

    7. Mephyle*

      Some people don’t absorb information nearly as well from written sources as from people, and they would much, much rather ask someone than look it up themselves. It’s not necessarily strictly laziness; they may be taking the shortest path for their learning style.
      I am the opposite (understand it better if I can look it up) and I suspect many people here are the same.

  66. Serendipitous*

    I’m a recent grad a couple years out of college. I won some awards throughout college. Re: résumé, to include or not to include?

    1. Stryker*

      I’d leave ’em out, especially if they’re not nationally recognized or anything. If they are, maybe in a very small space in your education section, but since you’re a couple years out, maybe not. (Eh, that’s just my vast, 20something opinion, I could be wrong.)

      That said, you should totally put them on your LinkedIn profile :)

      1. Sharm*

        Ooh, interesting. I’d left mine in and am a few years older than you. I didn’t even think that would look weird. I’ll have to take a look at it again sometime.

        They’re definitely on my LinkedIn profile though. :-)

  67. Book Nerd*

    I have a question: how do you know when a red flag is real or a product of your own imagination?

    I just interviewed for a new job and was less than impressed. The interview was 10 minutes long (and only because I asked questions). They said they’d have an answer next week (after just 10 minutes?!). They didn’t even ask when I would be able to start. It gives me the impression that employees are expendable and not really considered an investment for them, which makes me a bit nervous.

    I’ve been told I’m overthinking it, which could be entirely possible, as I do live in my head a lot. So I’m pretty much wondering if I’m working myself up over nothing, and if so, how do I know when it’s something to be concerned about? Especially when things are in the pre-job stage.

    2. Persephone Mulberry*

      I realize that’s not answering your question about how to tell if something is a red flag, but this seems a pretty straightforward gutcheck.

    3. GoodGirl*

      I’ve always believed that how you are treated in an interview is how you will be treated in a job. I also believe that we are given the gift of intuition for a reason. :)

      Just re-reading your thoughts – I think your instincts are right on target with this one.

    4. Book Nerd*

      Thanks for the affirmation. :)

      I’m almost hoping I don’t move forward now…since I’d be getting a big pay bump with this position, even with red flags, it would probably be much harder to turn down.

    5. John*

      Impossible to know but two thoughts come to mind: 1) they already found their dream candidate and were just going through the motions so they can say they interviewed X number of candidates; or 2) the interviewer wasn’t feeling it right off the bat and didn’t want to waste your time.

      Would be surprised if this goes anywhere.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Uh- it takes more than ten minutes to interview someone.
      If they call, then take a pass.

  68. SimpleeInspired*

    To satisfy my own curiosity, any other recent or past college graduates that don’t/didn’t want to do the graduation walk?
    I feel so tired of college that my mentality is along the lines of ‘screw it, I’m outta here and never coming back’. =P

    2. Stephanie*

      My friend’s b school graduation “announcement” was an email forward from the registrar saying she completed all her degree requirements. Don’t feel bad if you want to skip!

    3. SimpleeInspired*

      I am officially green with envy for both cases. Tried to tell my parents I don’t want to do the walk…it did not go over well.

        1. CanadianWriter*

          pretty mad but I refused to go. They got over it.

          Sorry for the two parter. I blame my clumsy oversized thumbs .

    5. GoodGirl*

      I skipped mine because there were sooo many graduates and they didn’t announce each person (you just stood up with your ‘school of choice).

      That being said…looking back, I kind of wish I had gone through it. At the time, I said I would walk in my MBA graduation ceremony. Well, I’ve since decided not to go to grad school so there goes that plan! ;)

      1. Ali*

        I walked in mine but kind of wish I hadn’t. Some of my friends were younger than me and had gone home before graduation, so no one really stayed to see me graduate. (Which I understand now, but it was a bummer not having friends around my last couple nights on campus.) Also, I don’t really love to party and all that was really going on the last night was the senior bar crawl. I didn’t even have that much fun but went along with my well-meaning roommate. Looking back, I would’ve gone home after my last final and skipped graduation.

    7. Sunflower*

      I walked but I don’t think it would have made a huge impact on my life either way. I went to a large school- we had a card and handed it to the announcer and walked across the stage. Then afterwards, there were tables where we picked up our degrees. I guess I would walk again only because it I was going to be at school anyway so there wasn’t anything to gain by not going. I felt my high school graduation was a much bigger deal.

      1. Ali*

        My school did the card thing too but not the diploma pick up. We got a diploma folder and then the actual one mailed to us a few weeks later.

    8. NOLA*

      I went to mine and wished I’d skipped. It was too big to find my small group of close friends and I only had two low key family members there. It was a bit depressing to see other grads with huge groups of happy onlookers, photos, etc. (window dressing, I know…but still made me meh about the whole thing)

      1. Sunflower*

        While, as I mentioned above, the actual walking didn’t shape my life either way my graduation weekend was maybe the worst weekend of my life. The thought of doing something with my major made me want to throw up, my boyfriend dumped me for another girl and my friends were moving to opposite sides of the country so bad last semester. Then my parents spent the whole weekend asking what I was going to do now that I graduated and I don’t recall them ever once saying ‘congrats’ or ‘we’re proud of you’. I’m rambling and bringing my own issues in but it would have been easier to hear that in my own kitchen as opposed to in a restaurant with tons of other proud families around

    9. Sabrina*

      I finished my BS degree in August and did not walk. I didn’t want to and my degree was online, so I would have to drive 1000+ miles to my school to participate. I did walk many years ago when I finished my AA, but that was because I thought I had to, I didn’t realize I had a choice.

    10. Persephone Mulberry*

      Caveat: I’m an adult student, going to school around a family and a full time job.

      I’ve got three semesters to go, and I’m pretty sure after all I’ve put my husband through just in the past two years, much less the next 18 months, he’d never forgive me if he didn’t get to see me walk. :)

    11. Annie O*

      I walked and never regretted it. The walk represented the final step of the whole journey. For me, it was almost like a sense of completion or closure.

      1. danr*

        Check the folks getting the honorary degrees. This goes back a few years… At my wife’s Masters graduation one of the honorees was Joan Baez, and we were treated to a rendition of Amazing Grace.

    12. Charlotte*

      I chose to not walk and my best friend chose to. She said later that she regreted walking, since she ended up next to another graduate that she didn’t even know, whereas I was hanging out with our group of friends. Do whatevere you want to do.

    13. Sharm*

      I went, but I could have skipped it. I really didn’t like college, and had no friends (that sounds sad, but is true, and weird, given how much better I did with finding friends out of college), and was having a lot of anxiety over not having people to hang out with at the ceremony. It was fine, but I really could have skipped it.

      They’re overrated, IMO.

    16. kas*

      I graduated from two programs and skipped both – no regrets. My parents didn’t care about me skipping my first one but my dad was a bit disappointed for the second.

      You get your diploma/degree mailed to you anyway and that’s all I cared about. Didn’t care to sit in a long ceremony, having to watch hundreds of people I don’t know walk across a stage.

    17. Mephyle*

      This is a long time ago, but I got my B Sc in 1979. Apparently I went, because there is a photo, but I don’t remember anything about it. I didn’t go to my Master’s one, just waited until I got the degree in the mail.

  69. Teacher Candidate*

    I have my first in-person teaching interview coming up next week! (US, New York state.) Yay!

    It’s a 45 minute sit-down interview with administrators. No demo lesson or school visit on this round.

    I plan to prep by rehearsing some of my answers to questions I know are going to come up (Common Core, classroom management, what makes a good lesson, what are you trying to improve, etc.) I have my outfit and will have extra resume/cover letter copies on hand and a place to take notes.

    My question is about the teacher portfolio… it’s common in teacher hiring culture, I understand, to bring artifacts of your teaching with you.

    I plan to bring:
    1) the *most excellent* goodbye notes from students at my past student teaching placement
    2) photocopied samples of my grading on student work
    3) a copy of a recent unit plan

    Teachers/administrators, anything else you think I should bring?

    1. Stryker*

      I’m not a teacher or anything, but could you get your hands on official performance evals from previous principals or supervisors? (Teachers, is this okay?)

      1. Teacher Candidate*

        Ooh — I do have a letter of reference from somebody who observed me. Thanks for reminding me that I have this! (In education it’s common for candidates to hold on to their LORs…)

  70. H. Vane*

    Ladies and gents, I’d like to say that this is by far the most reasonable group of commenters that I’ve ever run across on the internet, despite the wide variety of veiwpoints and beliefs. You all rock. And thanks for all your incredible advice, Alison and commenters!

  71. Sunflower*

    WEdding question- my sister is getting married in a year and she is so far a great bride- not over demanding at all. My mother on the other hand is a MOTHERZILLA and it seems to be affecting me more than my sister. I believe it’s my sisters wedding and I told her if she needs help/opinions, I’m more than happy to help but I’m not going to tell her what she should and shouldn’t do. My mother thinks this means I don’t care about the wedding. I still have another year of this to deal with. Any suggestions?

    1. Celeste*

      Lots of moms have trouble letting go, and the wedding is a crucible for that. Tell her that you do care, but your way of caring is to be available to your sister when she asks for something, not to give unsolicited advice. Or something like that. Good luck!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I love it when people decide what you are thinking./sarcasm.

      I guess I would just say “That is not what I said, Mom. When you are ready to sit and really talk about this, I will be happy to.”

    3. COT*

      Offbeatbride.com has great advice about family challenges, as does apracticalwedding.com. Check their archives.

  72. JEC*

    Can I get opinions on a small issue from some picky writers? Of these two options –

    “He is a member of the American, Arkansas, and Pulaski County Bar Associations.”
    and
    “He is a member of the American, the Arkansas, and the Pulaski County Bar Associations.”

    Is there anything that would give a rule to using/not using the extra articles in front of each item?

    2. fposte*

      That’s an ear thing, I think (I don’t have Fowler or Garner near me to check them); you’ve got syntactical parallelism either way, which is the important thing. I would go with the second to avoid the possible misreading of something called “the American, Arkansas…” since they’re not exactly categorically parallel.

      1. fposte*

        Ha, everybody else likes the other way. I think that this is proof this is a situation where it doesn’t really matter.

      2. JEC*

        That was my problem, basically. I hate the way the second one sounds but it’s our current standard and I don’t know that I have a good justification for fighting it.

        It seems like “associations” being plural, along with the Oxford comma, should eliminate any ambiguity or possible misreading, shouldn’t it?

        1. fposte*

          The goal is to eliminate the misreading before it happens, rather than clarify the misreading after they’ve glitched the processing on “American, Arkansas”. That’s why I’d go with the triple “the” in this case, whereas I wouldn’t if he were a member of the Arkansas, Texas, and Oklahoma bar associations.

          Aha! I take it back–you *don’t* have syntactic parallel, because you’re using the adjectival form for the first one. So now the rule is on my side.

          1. JEC*

            But… I really want you to be wrong because I hate the way it sounds. It’s the ABA’s fault for not just being the “America Bar Association,” even though that sounds stupid too.
            Thanks for the insight, though.

          2. MJ*

            I’m not sure this is an issue of parallelism since the groups are called the American Bar Association, the Arkansas Bar Association, and the Pulaski County Bar Association. “American” in this instance is less an adjective than part of a title. I think it may be less than proper to break up those titles, and personally I would opt for a third choice: “the American Bar Association, the Arkansas Bar Association, and the Pulaski County Bar Association.”

        2. Lily in NYC*

          I call it The University of Phoenix comma to annoy my elitist boss. We weren’t allowed to use it when I worked at USNews & World Report – it’s not used much in journalism, but everyone in my over-educated office uses it.

    5. JustMe*

      In college, I was told that commas before “and” were now considered optional, but it’s always bugged me when they aren’t there, so I’d say keep it.

      1. Just a Reader*

        In business it totally depends on the stylistic standard of the organization. So presumably OP’s organization already has a standard for that.

        My company has eliminated the Oxford comma in our collateral.

  73. CAS*

    I had management training this week and was dreading it, having sat through my share of bad management training. (er, management training of poor quality, not training in “how to be a bad manager” although that would be really funny.)

    Instead I arrived to our training to find “Managing to Change the World,” Alison’s book, set at every place. Things only went up from there. It’s good to live in DC sometimes.

      1. CAS*

        It was a terrific training from The Management Center. I was very impressed. So useful and easy to translate into practice immediately. My only regret is that I didn’t receive it the training earlier when I first started managing groups of people.

        I do wonder – how many organizations actually invest in management training? Every organization I have worked for has offered it, but it was usually so basic it wasn’t much help.

  74. Jamie*

    You all are so great about food, need suggestions.

    One of my kids went vegetarian a couple of weeks ago and I’ve been making so many soups and veggie stews we’re all cutting down on meat – collateral benefit.

    But I need to expand my repertoire and need a special vegetarian main for Easter.

    Problem is due to my own weird food aversions no round vegetables smaller than a cherry tomato, or shaped like a trapezoid. Larger vegetables diced are fine. Size of kidney beans okay as long as definitely not round. And not too spicy.

    Big, big fans of broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, tomato, potato, spinach, beets, and sweet potatoes.

    Wow, seeing it in writing makes me realize how strange that is to other people.

    But I’m hoping you all know some good websites for regular vegetarian meals as well as something tried and tested yummy and substantial enough for a holiday main course.

    I thought I could just google but this is turning out to be harder than I thought.

    2. fposte*

      I don’t have any help, but I must briefly marvel: there are trapezoidal vegetables? Enough for you to object to them?

      1. Jamie*

        There is one – but it in the top two things that can’t enter the house. It’s fine if on a cob, but not loose and off the cob.

        I’m a lot of fun to live with. :)

        1. Celeste*

          I cannot BEAR it in soups! Between the shell that won’t let it cook down and meld, and the way it squeaks…just NO.

        2. Cat*

          I forgot about corn! It doesn’t bother me in person, but someone posted an MRI scan of a cob on Facebook today and it actually made my skin crawl, so I think I’m with you on there being something weird about the shape.

        3. College Career Counselor*

          How do you feel about the abomination that is candy corn? Trapezoidal Sugar-Wax!

        4. ExceptionToTheRule*

          My doctor indicates that’s a food we borrow, not a food we use, so I don’t think you’re missing out.

    3. Victoria Nonprofit*

      101cookbooks.com

      I also love the Pioneer Woman, who does lots of meat dishes but also plenty of outstanding non-meat meals.

      Lastly: How old is your now-vegetarian kid? When my sister went vegetarian (at 16), my mother kept making the meals she wanted to make (which were sometimes vegetarian-by-accident or easily modified, e.g. spaghetti without meatballs) and if my sister wanted something else she had to make it herself.

      1. Jamie*

        He’s 18, and he’s not asking for special meals – but I want to make sure we have plenty of options for him so I just do several soups/stews on the weekends and freeze them.

        Part of it is I’m afraid if I don’t he’ll live on smoothies and veggie subs from Jimmy Johns. But I thought it was a great opportunity for all of us to get more vegetables and that’s worked, we’ve all cut down I meat considerably.

        Just replacing vegetable stock in recipes that call for chicken stock is so easy and no one can taste the difference.

        And I cannot make enough cream of cauliflower, asparagus, mushroom, and potato leek soups – no matter how much I make or how big the batches kids clean it out by midweek.

        Oh and cream of mushroom soup makes a great base for chicken tetrazzini – I just swap out the chicken for broccoli for the vegetarian version.

        1. Celeste*

          Cooks Illustrated had an amazing mushroom lasagna that you might look into. It’s on several cooking blogs as well. It freezes great and my feeling is that the texture and taste of mushrooms really perform as a meat substitute in a dish.

        2. AVP*

          I don’t have any great Easter suggestions, but I love cooking veggies and these are my favorite websites and books when I need ideas (besides 101CookBooks, which someone mentioned above):

          – Smitten Kitchen (her caramelized onion, rice, kale casserole might be good for you)
          – Orangette blog (tons of ‘side dish or put an egg on top and make it a main dish’ ideas)
          – Nigel Slater’s ‘Tender’ and ‘Ripe’
          – Mark Bittman’s ‘How to Cook Everything Vegetarian’ (for when you just want to look up a vegetable and get a list of things to make with it)

        3. Stephanie*

          Lentils and lentil stews are good as well! I know you don’t like spicy, but Indian food’s really veg friendly. Just look for the recipes that don’t call for all kinds of chilis.

        4. Grace*

          *Moosewood cookbooks (great vegetarian burritos made with sweet potatoes)
          *Deborah Madison vegetarian cookbooks (not a bad recipe in the bunch)
          *www dot food dot com (recipes from home cooks)

    4. Cat*

      Both Serious Eats and Smitten Kitchen have some good suggestions – neither are exclusively vegetarian. (Though I have to ask – which vegetables are trapezoid shaped? I can’t think of any off the top of my head.)

      How do you feel about Brussels sprouts and mushrooms? Avoiding links because of moderation, but if you google “Serious Eats” and “Brussels sprouts lasagna” you’ll get an awesome vegetarian lasagna recipe that is decadent enough to feel special and holiday-like.

      1. Cat*

        Okay, my clever plan to avoid moderation totally failed. Hopefully my comment will show up eventually!

    6. Celeste*

      I adore cooking blogs, and second the suggestion that Smitten Kitchen has tons of vegetarian dishes. Another blog I like is Sprouted Kitchen, http://www.sproutedkitchen.com/

      Most of the blogs will have a list of blogs they like, and looking around in there will turn up some amazing things.

    7. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Enlist your kid in figuring this out! This is a good project for them.

      Also, my mom was similarly accommodating to me and my sister when we went vegetarian, and it was awesome of her — especially around holiday meals, when sometimes people are resistant to doing it. So I bet your kid is appreciative.

    8. Gene*

      Google Moosewood. Your local library probably has at least one of their cookbooks on teh shelf.

    9. LPBB*

      When I was still a vegetarian I found several good recipes from the Vegetarian Times, but I’ve never used their website so I don’t know how useful it is. I agree with others who have suggested Cook’s Illustrated and would like to put in a plug for Jack Bishop’s vegetarian cookbook.

      http://www.amazon.com/Year-Vegetarian-Kitchen-Seasonal-Friends/dp/0618239979/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1397845321&sr=8-2&keywords=jack+bishop

      It’s a good resource for those who want to eat seasonally as well as meatlessly. He’s also based on the East Coast, so, unlike most seasonal eating cookbooks that I’ve seen that seem to be written by Californians who assume that of course everyone can get red peppers year round in their local farmers’ market, his recipes actually use seasonal ingredients.

    10. J.B.*

      My favorite sweet potato recipe ever – cut sweet potatoes into small cubes, toss with your favorite herb or spice and some salt, bake at 400 for 20 minutes (+ depending on size). Or buy the cubed butternut squash and do the same thing.

      Do a quick saute of broccolini with olive oil, salt and lemon juice.

      Check out cooking light for recipe ideas, they often have good vegitarian suggestions. There’s one I really like with mashed butternut squash or sweet potatoes over pasta and bake with paremesan over the top. You can combine all sorts of veggies in there, including maybe tossing the pasta with spinach.

    11. AAA*

      I like EatWell (magazine and website). It’s not exclusively vegetarian, but I’ve been a vegetarian for about 20 years and always find great ideas there.

      As someone who went veg at 11, I’m sure your kid appreciates the effort of thinking about him at the holiday table!

    12. Mae*

      I went veggie at age 10 in an omnivorous house and man I wish the internet had been around then! Sites like All Recipes and Epicurious let you search by category (like vegetarian or vegan) and All Recipes lets you select specific ingredients to either have or not have (though I’m not sure they’d recognize “any trapezoidal vegetable” :). Also, if you’re not afraid of some experimentation, try Thai and Indian recipes as they are usually vegetarian by default (and also delicious!). Coconut milk and hummus will be your child’s new best friends!

    13. Annie O*

      Cauliflower steaks!!

      Seriously, they are awesome – even for meat eaters. You cut up a whole cauliflower into slices and brown it up like a steak. The recipe (link below) pairs the “steaks” with tomato sauce and olive relish, but I also love to serve them with curry. Also, I like to add some pine nuts.

    15. Jean*

      Lapsed veggie here (got as far as being pescatarian, then backslid to poultry) with some ideas possibly useful for future reference:
      1) Laurel’s Kitchen — 30/40 years ago this was one of the big-name veggie cookbooks. I don’t follow their recipes as much as I’ve tried to absorb some of their overall approach to cooking: keep it simple, nourishing, and without processed ingredients.
      2) Dairy sections of kosher cookbooks — because a kosher dairy meal will be meatless by definition even if the diners themselves aren’t officially vegetarians.
      3) Re lasagna: For years I’ve made the recipe on the back of the box of brand-name “no preboiling required” lasagna noodles. It calls for tomato sauce with meat but I just use tomato sauce (Barilla brand, marinelli or tomato-and-basil varieties). People always seem surprised by this idea, but I grew up not eating meat-and-cheese lasagna so to me it’s just business as usual.

      I’m assuming that dairy and eggs are OK for your family. If not (stand back: unhelpful comment coming) you can adapt dairy-based recipes by substituting soy or legumes, but you’ll also have to look elsewhere for additional guidance. I’m not fond of soy and am still gaining expertise in cooking with legumes.

      Good luck! Sorry you find trapezoidal veggies distressing but thanks for opening my eyes to the Geometry of Vegetables.

  75. Ali*

    I have some good and bad this week myself.

    Good: I just got home from my Zumba class and we got to dance with bunny ears for Easter! My teacher does little themed things like this on holidays a lot (dress in costume for Halloween, themed beads for Christmas) and it makes class so much more fun! I hope I’m as cool as her when I’m ready to teach even though I can’t be her if that makes sense. But I definitely want to incorporate some things she does!

    Bad: I found out that the person who got a job I really wanted at a college is younger than me! I’m a little frustrated about that because she likely has less experience too, and I’m starting to feel a little concerned that I’m seeing people younger than me get better jobs and experience quicker than I am at 28. I see people who are out of college less time climbing the ladder quicker and getting better jobs, and I’m wondering if I should be worried about that. I’ve been out of school since 2008, and I’ve been at Current Company for four years. Yet someone who’s been there only almost three is already second in command to our manager (who is also younger than me). I will admit the second in command has held the same job title as me, just for a longer period.

    How much does age mean in terms of what experience you get and when? Am I really screwed because I haven’t been given semi-leadership responsibilities or still work in an entry-level(ish) company/position?

    I’m meeting with my boss again soon, and he does not know I’m job searching outside the company, but I have told him about goals I have within our business. (After all, my thought is that I may not find something new for quite a while.)

    Any thoughts?

    2. Jill-be-Nimble*

      I’ve read this comment from you and the comment down-stream about being “just average”. I swear, I almost thought that I had written some posts under another name and forgotten. I, too, am a writerly type and have been struggling in jobs. I got into a toxic job after being laid off in my early 20’s. To escape Toxic Job and a terrible market in a bad part of the country, I went to grad school for three years. Now, at 30, with two extra degrees under my belt, I am making even less money that I was in my first job and having the hardest time in the world finding a “real” job. I’ve gotten along by temping and contracting, but it’s a constant demoralizing fight to job search while working and trying to have some sort of normal life.

      They always give entry level jobs to just-out-of undergrad people (telling me that I’m “too good” for those positions when I apply), but then the people who got those positions get the experience they need and get promoted and are in the positions that are “my level” now because of it. It sucks, and I’m looking into other career paths because I’m at the end of my rope.

      The thing is, though, I’m happier than I was before grad school–I’m in a better (albeit more expensive) geographical location for my line of work. I’m slowly building up some great contacts and a good reputation. Every time I get discouraged and want to give up and take any job–ANY JOB AT ALL (no matter how red-flaggy their hiring practices), I pause and think: Would I rather be doing what I’m doing now, or would I rather be back in Toxic Job making twice as much? Because that’s how I got into Toxic Job in the first place. And the answer is always that I’m happier now and know that something will come along. I’m on a good path to doing what I want while making good contacts. It’s not worth giving in to a company that has sent up a bunch of red flags just to get some semblance of peace for the time-being. In the long run, jumping ship desperately will only set you back.

      As to the “just being average,” don’t kick yourself so much. Maybe you are; maybe you aren’t. Maybe someone schmoozed better or had a contact vouch for them and that’s why they got promoted. You can’t control what other people do; you can only control what you do and how you react. So, yeah, it sucks. And I’m totally there with you. I truly hope that this is the lowest point you’ll be at and something great comes along soon. Until then, know that there are a ton of really good people in your position right now, especially in our field. It’s a heartless, awful place to be, but that’s what we get for pursuing something out of love.

      Good luck!

  76. CrazyCatLady*

    I’ve been reading about unemployment and have a question – it mentions a base period of work and how much you earned during that time. I haven’t been able to find if that includes ANY job, or just the most recent job you were laid off/fired from? I wasn’t laid off or fired, just wondering.

    1. meetoo*

      If you changed jobs during the base period of work then they do use your salary from both jobs. So if you took a new job and were laid off after two months they would use your salary from your old job and the one you were laid off from to calculate how much your benefit is.

      I am not sure how they factor in having more than one job at the same time.

      1. CrazyCatLady*

        Ah okay, that’s what I was wondering – thanks! I am starting a new job and there’s always the worry that it won’t work out, so I just wanted to make sure.

  77. meetoo*

    I have a very specific question I was hoping someone would have an opinion about.

    I am soon to finish graduate school. There is a position I am interested in and the company is exactly what I am looking for. However, when I was applying for internships for last summer I applied to this company for one type of internship. They asked me if I was interested in another type of internship that was more aligned with my background and less with where I am trying to take my career. I declined saying that I really wanted to get experience that will move me in a new direction.

    Now they have full time positions open that are the same type I said I was not interested in. At this point I am interested in any position at the type of company and industry I want to be in and don’t mind going back to my old role to be in a different industry (my degree is in the area the company works in so it is still relevant). I want to apply but don’t want them to think they are a last resort for me.

    Do I address this in a cover letter or just not say anything and hope they don’t remember me? If I do say something what do I say?

    1. fposte*

      I wouldn’t mention it in your application, and I don’t think it’s that big a deal in general. Could be mentionable in an interview, but it can also be part of your longterm interest in this company. And I really think it’s okay to have turned down a communications internship because you were trying to do more curse-throwing but then to have decided you’re actually going to stick with communications.

    2. Persephone Mulberry*

      I wouldn’t address it. A, they probably won’t remember, and B, if they specifically bring it up you can always point out that while you were excited for that internship because it offered a chance to explore a different direction, you’re excited about THIS position because it builds well on your previous experience in a new industry.

  78. Mimmy*

    Heads up Alison: I think there’s a spammy post that got through the filter. It’s at the very end of the thread. It’s just a link to (I imagine) a Youtube video.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit*

          No, I think it’s spammy. I haven’t clicked on it, but it’s stayed at the bottom of my comments all day. It was posted at 11:37 and it’s still the last comment of the page; newer comments are posting above it.

      2. Persephone Mulberry*

        A link with no explanatory text feels spammy/questionable to me. I don’t know if it was funny or not, because I didn’t click. (I also thought it was odd the way it was stuck to the bottom of the comments.)

        1. Annie O*

          I noticed that too! Also, the link went to youtu.be instead of youtube.com. Definitely spammy.

          1. MJ (Aotearoa/New Zealand)*

            Actually, youtu.be is the url that youtube uses when you click the “Share” tab and copy the link from there, rather than copying it from your address bar. So doesn’t make it spammy in and of itself.

    2. GoodGirl*

      @giggleloop – How old is the guy?

      Without having additional background info, I would assume he’s not interested. When I was single, it happened to me a lot and I could never understand it. When I met my significant other, he was so responsive/proactive about calling/texting/visiting me and I just wasn’t used to it.

      Looking at all of my other friends and their romantic situations, the guys that were “into” them were very responsive as well. They weren’t into playing games either.

      FWIW, I’m in my early 30s.

    4. Sunflower*

      Did you give off the vibe you weren’t into him? Sometimes when you try to play it cool you come as, well, cold. You can text him once and then if hes still weird after that, just let it go

    5. Anonsie*

      Well 1) a week is not a long time and 2) if you haven’t tried to contact him either, he might think you’re not into it and is leaving you alone like a reasonable person would. Initiate some contact.

    6. giggleloop*

      Thanks! We’re mid-30s, New to seeing each other. I don’t think I gave off a weird vibe, but not totally impossible. We’ve been hanging out for just a few weeks, and every other week, we’ve talked a couple of times a week. Just kind of took me by surprise, but to be fair, I haven’t contacted him yet, either.

      1. lindsay j*

        Similar situation. Late 20s, just started seeing a guy. After the first time we saw each other we texted every day. I saw him last Friday, and since then he has not initiated contact. He is responsive when I text him though.

        I though he might want to see me tonight, and when it became clear that wouldn’t happen (after midnight) I sent him a text saying, “Bored of me already, or have you just been busy? Anyway, I hope you had a fun Friday night.”. No response yet.

        Honestly, it probably wasn’t the classiest text to send. However, I’m a fan of open communication, especially in the early staged since after just a couple weeks there are no deep emotions to be hung up on. I figure this text will at least get me one of three responses. Silence = not into me. “hey it’s been fun but… “= not into me. “Sorry I’ve had a lot on my plate this week…” = worth continuing to explore.

        Now I just need to wait for the morning to see if I get va response.

    7. Annie O*

      Have you tried contacting him? I’ve a big fan of the informal, “Hey, want to hang out soon?” text. If you get no response or a lukewarm response, there’s your answer.

  80. a.n.o.n.*

    This question is for anyone who is a mortgage lender.

    My husband and I are in the process of getting an appraisal so we can sell our house and buy a new one. I was at my last job for nearly 20 years. It shut down in November. I started a new job in February. It’s in the same industry, similar job, as my last job. I may be changing jobs again. The job would be in the same industry and again, a similar job. I don’t know if we should make a bid on a house now or wait until we sell ours.

    This goes back to my whole saga about how I took the wrong job, am miserable now, and hope to get that other job I turned down. If I get an offer for that job I absolutely wouldn’t turn it down. But the timing is likely to land smack in the middle of applying for a mortgage.

    If I were to change jobs before we buy a new house, would that cost me the new mortgage? If I can’t get that other job then this is a non-issue. I wouldn’t be looking until after we buy the house.

    1. Malissa*

      FHA programs will allow you to finance on a future job if you show proof of an offer. Traditional mortgages want you to be employed for 30 days at the new job.
      I’m not a mortgage lender, but I did try to buy a house while moving from another state and this is what I found.
      If you can qualify on the husbands income alone, then it doesn’t matter.

      1. a.n.o.n.*

        Awesome! Thank so much! That’s a load off of my mind.

        We could carry two mortgages for a time if we had to, but I didn’t really want to do that. And if I get that job offer there’s no way I’m turning it down. Not after what I’ve gone through emotionally since taking the wrong job two months ago.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Can you make your purchase of the new home contingent on the sale of your old home?
          We bought our house 20 years ago- I don’t even know if they write this into contracts or not now.

          1. a.n.o.n.*

            At the moment, we are looking to sell to one of the two businesses that are on either side of us. Both companies are looking to expand and there seems to be some interest there. If that’s a no-go, we’ll put it on the market and see how it goes. If a month or two goes by with no bites then we will probably put in a bid on a new house and make it contingent on the sale of our old house.

        2. danr*

          Paying two mortgages makes budgeting real. We did that for 18 months. We zeroed out our credit card balances while getting the mortgage for the new house, then put purchases back on them after the closing. Then paid them off gradually after we sold the old house.

          1. a.n.o.n.*

            I considered it simply because I’m worried about making a second job change and having it interfere with getting a new mortgage. We could do it, but it would be tight. And I really don’t want to be a landlord, but that’s another option for the old house.

  81. Kristin*

    And oh wow. I posted upthread about a phone interview I was supposed to have. I say supposed, because I took time from work, answered the call and that was basically it.

    I am a front end web developer without a degree, which has never been a problem for me. However, the first thing the interviewer asked was: “And where did you go to school? I don’t see a degree listed on your resume.”

    I explained my situation, including referencing the fact that I do stellar work, self-motivated etc proven by teaching myself to code etc, that I had dropped out of a prestigious college and have had a strong career ever since.

    Interviewer: “I’m sorry, I should have caught you didn’t have a degree before, sorry for wasting your time.”

    I wasn’t incredibly interested in the job, but I am just aggravated. Why set up the interview to end in in under 3 minutes? Why not at least keep going as a courtesy?

    1. CrazyCatLady*

      If that’s a deal breaker for them, might as well end it right away – that’s what phone screens are for. That being said, I think they’re doing themselves a disservice to require a degree when you have proven experience in the field. It’s not like you’re trying to become a doctor.

      1. Kristin*

        Yeah, I can see it both ways, because I would have been disappointed if I had a great interview and then been ruled out then. However, I wish they had called it out as a (silly) deal breaker so I would have known not to apply.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Well, at least they didn’t waste your time. Although I wonder, if the person not having a degree is such a deal-breaker for them, why don’t theyset up their application process so it’s clearer which applicants have one?

      And I also think they’re shooting themselves in the foot by making that a deal-breaker, because there are more people every day who are self-educated in design/development/coding, etc. They’re going to miss out on some great employees.

      1. Kristin*

        They did waste my time, though. I had to take time from work to (open floor plan at the office means no privacy for a phone call).

        And yes on the second point. I dropped out after studying philosophy and theater. Would I really have been a better designer if I had finished that degree? No. Probably worse, because I wouldn’t have put the energy and time into learning to code.

  82. Therese*

    I had a job interview last week but I just don’t know about the job. The company needs help getting their back office operations in order all stuff I can do but all their “office” people work from home so I feel like that is half their problem. They also said I’d be working for them but they would 1099 me and I just don’t know if I feel comfortable with that…and don’t want to get screwed over. I also don’t have an extra room to make into a home office so I’d be working from my bedroom…not sure how I feel about that either…too many decisions.

    My mom says I need to take the job if they offer it to me so that I have SOMETHING (my internship ends next week and then I’m going out of town for a month) and then keep looking for jobs.

    I just don’t know how ethical I feel about taking a job with the intention of leaving in less than 6 months. BLAH too many decisions!

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Okay, what makes you feel like they could be trying to mess with you?
      Of everything you said here, that is the most concerning in my mind.

      1. Therese*

        I think part of it is they don’t really know WHAT they need they just know they need help.

        A lot of what it comes down to is 6 years ago they hired a girl out of college that created this system in excel using macros and was awesome at what she did. Then she left and basically no one had a clue of what she was doing and they’ve been struggling ever since.

        I’m about to leave the country for a month so I might call them this week and see where we stand and let them know my whereabouts.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Okay, so it seems like you have a handle on how they are going to blindside you with this macro problem. Do you think you can take that on and win? (I would not be able to.) They are making you a 1099 worker? Great. If you set an hourly rate that will take away one method of messing with you. You could add that you would like to revisit this contract agreement in five months to see how it is working for the both of you. (This lets you out in time to move on in six months.)
          My theory is that most of us can do sprints, it’s the marathons that really have issues. Five months is a sprint.

          If you are reading this and your gut is still screaming NOOOO then do not take this job. Trust your gut.

  83. Frieda*

    Talk me out of adding quotes from my latest (awesome) performance review to my resume. I was thinking in a small text box at the top, where I have room next to my contact info. But this is not a good idea, right? Put it in the cover letter instead?

    Also, how best to say that you are an advance/power user of common office programs? Everyone lists MS Word as a skill, but I want to convey that I use it all day, and that I use advanced features regularly. “Expert user”? Is there a quantifiable way to measure what your skill level is on these things?

    1. CrazyCatLady*

      I think there may have been a post here before about how to define beginner, intermediate and advanced Excel users – like what things should each level be able to do. It would be helpful to know those things about Word, too. I think she’s also mentioned listing it on your resume as MS Word – Advanced (examples of some advanced things).

      1. Persephone Mulberry*

        I would love to see that list – I know I’m more advanced at Word/Excel than the average person, but I’m sure there are gaps in my knowledge because there are functions I’ve never had to make use of. I always hesitate to label my skill level because I don’t know what is typical to know – I only know what I’ve found a reason to teach myself.

        1. CrazyCatLady*

          Same here. Even when I try to teach myself new things in Excel, it’s hard to retain them if I don’t have to make regular use of them.

    2. Persephone Mulberry*

      First question: Blueskyresumes dot com, which is a source Alison has recommended before, actually advises adding a callout like this in your resume header (before your work experience). I suggest checking out their site for tips on how to do it well – the resume before-and-afters are really good.

      Second question: I think this is similar to the “soft skills” of detail oriented, good writer, etc. – it’s not enough to just say it. If you can, work it into an example in your cover letter or resume – “Used advanced MS Word features including mail merge/macros/whatever on a daily basis to accomplish blah blah blah”, that will carry a lot more weight than just “advanced MS Word skills including mail merge, styles, blah blah.”

    3. CrazyCatLady*

      By the way – yeah, I wouldn’t add quotes to the resume. But, if there’s any way you can translate it into a succinct “summary” section at the top, I think that would be better. If you are going to use quotes, I would put them in the cover letter. I’ve always wondered how to work them in, though…

  84. Mimmy*

    I know I keep posting–sorry!!–but I just thought of another question:

    Any recommendations for good spring/summer flats that might work well in business-casual environments? My biggest problem is that my feet are TINY. I’m a size 5, but my feet are narrow; finding a size 5, narrow shoe is nearly impossible. Mediums tend to be a bit big on me.

    Thanks!!

    1. CrazyCatLady*

      I wear a size 5 too and it’s hard finding even medium shoes! Have you looked on Zappos? They have a lot of different filters in their search feature.

      1. Mimmy*

        I haven’t always liked what I found, but I haven’t looked lately. I’ll try again. I think I have some saved searches there.

    2. Mimmy*

      Bonus: Sometimes I need to walk a slight distance to where I’m going due to taking the bus. I’d just maybe wear nice walking sneakers, but ideally I’d like to avoid having to deal with an extra pair of shoes.

      1. GoodGirl*

        I found a pair of Alfani flats at Macy’s back in the fall (basic black, look similar to ballet flats but with much more support). They were reasonably priced as well (under $50). I have foot issues from years of sports and can’t wear most flat shoes, including gladiator sandals and (most) ballet flats because they don’t have good support.

        I walk a couple of blocks from my garage to my office and I’ve never had any issues. I’ve also worn them to conferences that involved a lot of walking and they worked well.

    3. Celeste*

      Maybe Tieks (tieks dot com). They have an elastic fit so maybe you wouldn’t think they were too wide?

      I looked at Zappos and boy you are not kidding. I thought I was the forgotten woman at 10WW, but I’m passing you the crown!

      1. Stephanie*

        *Large foot solidarity fist bump*

        11B-to-D here. I either can’t find shoes or find them heavily discounted since the store needs to get rid of the 11.

        After a drag show once, I asked a drag queen where she got her shoes. I figured she’d know where I could find heels above a size 10.

        1. Celeste*

          Oh, I have several 11’s in my closet, especially if I have to wear pointy toes for something. Also some brands just run small.

          I have actually wondered where the drag queens get their shoes, but I worry that the arch support is in the wrong place and that the heels are too wide. I have Fred Flintstone/duck feet. It’s a family thing.

          My child is not yet 12 and her feet are 11 but not wide at all. She is already sad that we can’t just walk into a store and get her the shoes she sees. So far I’ve found Dansko is a great shoe for her and I’ve assured her we will do whatever it takes for her to have enough shoes. We just need lead time in case we have to order some.

          Somebody opened up sort of a shoe outlet in our mall. They have lots of 5s and 11s. I was talking to the manager and he said that’s sort of their market niche. He also told me about a Zappos Outlet in Kentucky that is a processing center for returns–hit or miss as they try to sell them before putting them back in rotation online. Anyway, I have vowed to make a pilgrimage there as I’m in a neighboring state.

          *Fist bump* for sure!!!!!

          1. fposte*

            Oh, I have duck feet; they’re shorter, though, so I don’t have the double-size whammy of the outlier length as well as width. But I know allll about the heel flipping out of the shoe.

            Mail order (and now the internet) completely changed my shoe world. Stores never had more than a single shoe in wide, and it would be horrible and I’d feel obliged to buy it. But now I have, like choices. It’s amazing. I feel like this is why the Internet really exists–to get me shoes.

          2. Stephanie*

            The drag queens told me Payless (if I didn’t care about the quality), Zappos, and Amazon. They said on occasion, DSW will have some interesting stuff, but that the larger selection is very limited.

        2. Rebecca*

          Me too! And sometimes even a 12M! I have an awful time finding decent looking dress shoes. Lately I’ve been buying size 12M in ladies athletic shoes. Not sure if they’re downsizing, or what. Curiously, I have old winter boots that still fit just fine, yet they are a full size number smaller than the shoes I can wear now.

          1. Stephanie*

            Eh, some brands run really short. I bought some PUMA athletic shoes in a size 11 that were so tight and short I had to return them. And, unfortunately, 11 was the largest the store sold.

            Learning how to stretch leather shoes was like the greatest thing ever.

    4. Anonymint*

      Go to Nordstrom if there’s one even remotely close to you!!!

      I used to work in their Women’s shoe department – you can tell them this word-for-word and they’ll bring everything they have in your size out for you to try. They actually keep their “Under 6” shoes all in one place in the stock rooms because this is so common! That way, you have a whole bunch of different styles and colors to try – if you find a style you like but not a color, they can usually order it from another store and have it to you in a few days.

    5. Stephanie*

      I like Born flats—they’re cushioned, (usually) leather, and have rubber soles and not completely hideous. Zappos sells them as do most department stores.

      If you’re willing to get a little spendy, I bought some Cole Haan wedges (yay tax refund splurge) that have great cushioning. Also spendy, but Frye makes nice flats/loafers. I find they tend to run narrow as well.

      My size 4.5 friend says Nordstrom can be good for small shoes.

      1. Celeste*

        Also Von Maur, if there’s one in your town. They tend to be in the same town as Nordstroms in the Midwest.

    6. fposte*

      Amazon also has developed a really broad range (broader than Zappo’s, in fact) and is searchable by size. But narrow 5s are slim pickings anywhere, I think.

    8. Anonsie*

      Story of my life. I just raided Nordstrom Rack, though, and got some good ones from Nine West (hit or miss in general, I got lucky) and Sam Edelman. I was replacing my old Born ones which, in all honesty, are not as comfortable as you would expect them to be and are so wide on my narrow feet that they look frumpy. They fit well at first but stretched out poorly.

      1. Stephanie*

        Problem with Born flats is that the transition from “Wow, these are great and feel like pillows!” to “Owwww, I have knee problems!” is like instantaneous. I’ve gotten a year tops out of a pair and that was only because they were in a bright color that was hard to match.

        1. Anonsie*

          That’s been my experience as well. Once they wear out they are pretty awful, at least the all-leather ones are. I’ve seen more recently that have foam cushions on the bottom, which I bet are better.

    9. AVP*

      Ugh, I just looked online to see if my favorite fall flats are available in your size…and they’re not but I bought myself another pair while I was on the site. :/

  85. Can't say who I am*

    I interviewed about 15 summer intern candidates yesterday, and they were fantastic. They all passed the practical portion with at least an adequate and at least half of them aced it. We also had them in behavioral and job fit interviews. Different strengths and experience levels, so the BI’s really helped.

    I wish we had more than three slots available.

    (Also thought it was amusing that about 4 of them asked the magic question!)

    1. Sunflower*

      All I can say is I hope job seekers who are constantly beating themselves up over why they didn’t get the job read these posts!! I always feel kind of encouraged when I see this stuff. Like it’s proof that a good amount of the time, you didn’t do anything terrible and they didn’t hate you!

      1. Can't say who I am*

        Yes, this! The HR person running the meeting where we discussed the candidates after the interviews first asked us to consider the candidates in isolation — would we recommend, not recommend or hold (encourage them to apply next year). Pretty much everyone was a recommend, which frustrated her. I chalked it up to having a great pool and a good initial screening process.

        Part of our choice of to whom to make offers was that we needed interns with different levels of experience this year (one MBA and two who were going into their junior or senior year in college) We like to to have folks come back for a second internship or hire them into the management trainee program after they graduate if they rock the summer program. Our needs are different each year depending on how the last interns performed.

  86. JamieG*

    I got my review today, and my manager said that the review (including the pay raise) are considered confidential and we’re not allowed to talk about it with anyone else. I’m about 99% sure they can’t forbid that, because Alison has said so several times, but I’m not sure if it’s worth bringing up to management. What do you all think?

    1. Gene*

      Not sure about the review, but they can’t forbid you from discussing wages with coworkers. Well, they can forbid it, but enforcing that would get them in trouble.

      1. JamieG*

        Yeah, I know. I’m just wondering whether it’d be worth pushing back against the policy.

        1. CrazyCatLady*

          I personally don’t think it’s worth it to push back against the policy. It’s not something I would feel strongly enough about, nor would I really feel the need to discuss my salary with coworkers. If it’s a big issue to them, and you have a good relationship with them, you could nicely point it out…

    2. fposte*

      Check to make sure the NLRA applies to you before you complain, though. For instance: you’re not a supervisor, are you?

  87. Gene*

    Yesterday we had our bi-annual Harassment Awareness training. 20 people sitting around a conference table while the HR Director stands at the front and essentially reads 4 multi-page policies at us. I saw the Mayor at PT this morning and just wanted to yell at him about the total waste of time and salary while we are in the middle of dealing with a projected $17M shortfall. But I didn’t.

    I know I should just relax and decide it all pays the same, but it took me away from what I was deep into and ruined my flow.

    I feel better now, anyone else need the key to the AngryDome?

    1. Malissa*

      What you see as a waste of time is actually risk mitigation from your liability insurance carrier. These meetings/classes are required for lower insurance rates.
      Ask HR if they can set-up on-line training for the next one, where people can take it when it fits into their schedule better.

      1. Gene*

        Oh, I understand the Why, what galls me is the How. The only thing that would be worse than someone standing there and reading the policies, would be if he made Powerpoint slides of the policies and read THOSE to us.

        If one is going to do training, make it actual training.

        2. Grace*

          I don’t know what state you are in but in my state (California) HR California (part of the California Chamber of Commerce) provides legally compliant on-line training at a reasonable cost.

  88. lavendertea*

    At my office there’s a little ledge above the row of sinks in the bathroom. People put hand soap, hand lotion and dish soap (the breakroom doesn’t have a sink) on this ledge.

    My question: if this was your workplace, would you assume those soaps were for communal use or not? (I haven’t had any issues w/r/t office soap, I just find these unspoken office etiquette questions fascinating!)

    2. fposte*

      I would leave them there assuming somebody would assume anything left to be communal, but if they weren’t mine I wouldn’t assume them to be shareable.

      1. lavendertea*

        This is my stance. I would never get mad if someone used a soap I’d left in the bathroom (actually I have gotten rid of soaps I didn’t like this way) but I wouldn’t use someone else’s soap because what if it’s an unspoken office rule that we Do Not Touch Others’ Soap and I accidentally reveal myself as a soap-stealing boor?!

        I have clearly overthought this WAY too much.

    3. Kristin*

      I would assume no, but would probably ask someone in a general way. “Do you know whose lotion that is?” or something along those lines.

    4. Kelly L.*

      If the soap is the only soap, I’d assume it was “the” bathroom soap, and communal. Not necessarily for the others. it’s a matter, I think, of whether I’d expect the employer to provide the thing. I expect my workplaces to have hand soap in the bathroom (along with, like, toilet paper) but I expect to bring in my own lotion unless someone tells me otherwise.

      1. lavendertea*

        In this case our employer does provide soap in wall-mounted dispensers. The proliferation of various other hand soaps is separate. But if the obvious employer soap wasn’t there I think I would agree w you in assuming the soaps are communal.

    5. Persephone Mulberry*

      I would assume they are communal (probably someone bought it and decided they didn’t care for it!). If I didn’t want to share, I’d keep it in my desk.

      1. Kelly L.*

        I’ve definitely seen this done often enough that I think it’s pretty normal–someone will bring in a lotion and leave it out for everyone to use, whether because they didn’t like it or just to be nice or whatever.

    7. Rebecca*

      I sometimes get free or almost free liquid soaps with coupons + sale prices, and share with my coworkers. They love it – beats using the institutional weird green soap in the dispensers.

  89. Let's Be Honest...*

    Single people – do you ever get annoyed when your ex-boyfriend/girlfriend gets engaged/married before you? Specifically, I’m talking about exes who treated you bad or had major issues?

    1. Anon for this*

      Yep!!!! I recently deleted her from facebook after she gushed about her new relationship.

      . …They broke up a month later. Vindication!!

      But yeah. I hear you.

    2. Sunflower*

      100% of the time. My high school BF was a huge tool and he’s married. He’s still not the sharpest tool in the shed and while I’m overall happy for him, I’m semi tiffed. My college bf, who broke up with me to be with his current gf, moved across the country to be with her. Meanwhile, he was still calling me for months after they got together and he still tries to hang out when hes in town. I’m over him but still bitter that she thinks he is PERFECT and I’m single..

    3. Tinker*

      The closest person I’ve got to That Ex — which was less of a relationship and more of a series of encounters culminating in a WTF week — I occasionally hear bits and pieces through the grapevine of what she’s up to lately. She’s been in (also, through) a number of relationships of a higher commitment level than I’ve had over the same time span, and whenever I hear of a new incident it’s kind of… schadenfreudey.

      “She’s HIS partner now? Oh jeez, really? Hahaha…”

      Yes, I am sometimes not a good person.

    4. AVP*

      I actually got a lot of pleasure from the fact that my high school era long-term boyfriend just got engaged…to the girl whom I thought he had a crush on while we were dating! I KNEW IT.

      In general though yes as a longtime single person this drove me nuts. Now I’m in a relationship and I don’t care. So I guess it gets better? Maybe? Eventually?

      1. OfficePrincess*

        Um you’re not my fiance’s ex are you? ;-) We did the whole “no really we’re just friends” thing for a while and each dated other people. It feels kind of silly that we put it off for so long, but we each feel like we gained important experiences and helping each other put the pieces of a broken heart back together really bonded us.

    5. Grace*

      Why be annoyed? The person they are with must be just as unhealthy as your ex in order to be with them. (I’ve actually prayed for two people I dated to be happily married because they were both good men but we weren’t a match. I was ecstatic when I heard they had gotten married!)

  90. Dang*

    Any success stories about finding a job after a longish period of unemployment? Feeling down today… Could use some hope!p as I’m coming up on a year…

    1. Sabrina*

      I was unemployed for a year and did find a job. I know two people who’s now ex-husbands were un/under-employed for many years and eventually found jobs. (Jobs unrelated to the fact that they are now ex’s)

    2. Jennifer*

      My friend just got a job (and it’s one where everyone is really nice!) after two years of unemployment.

    3. Polaris*

      A friend of mine found a job after being unemployed for more than a year. It can happen. Hang in there!

  91. Elizabeth West*

    I want to snuggle that kitty very badly!

    I spoke with my new VR counselor today (the old one quit due to health issues). We’re going to touch base after school is out and again before it starts in the fall. I told her how I felt about going back and she agreed that I do need a break. I said I wanted to be sure that it was for the right reasons and not just because this semester has been brutal (design class and healthcare writing in the same semester–guh).

    Right now, all I can think about is 1) the semester being over, 2) the ongoing alphabetical post-a-day April blog challenge (I made a plan before it started and it’s going really well–yay!), and 3) MY VACATION.

    I bought my plane tickets yesterday! I also bought a really nice insulated, cocoa brown, waterproof trench coat (clearance) from Eddie Bauer, but it’s back-ordered until July. No worries; as long as I actually get it IN July. I needed a raincoat for here anyway because we get rainy and windy weather in autumn, so it wasn’t just for the trip. Now to not spend any more extra money for a while so I can save up. I’ve decided to visit the Harry Potter Studios but you have to buy your ticket in advance.

    I need to go through my closet and see if there are any decent clothes in there. Most of the time, I wear a t-shirt, jeans, and sneakers (even to work), but I don’t want to run around London and Cardiff looking like a scruffy nerd.

    1. Persephone Mulberry*

      If watching Doctor Who and Torchwood has taught me anything, it’s that it sounds like your current wardrobe would fit right in. :D

      1. chewbecca*

        Especially with the addition of the trench coat. Perhaps a vortex manipulator, if the mood to accessorize strikes.

    2. Celeste*

      A leather jacket can really bring up a jeans outfit for casual times, and leather shoes help you not look so touristy. But I agree with PM below! :)

      I hope you’ll have a great time.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        The only leather I have is a parka (too big and heavy), but I do have blazers. Hmm….

        And I do have leather shoes but they’re a bit clunky. Advantage: they’re slip-ons, so if I wear them to the airport, I won’t have to tie my shoes after going through security. :)

  92. GigglyPuff (formerly O)*

    Non work related question, but related to the post about lying. So a few months ago, I had to get a new prescription from the doctor, and this is one that needs to be approved, which I knew ahead of time and planned for about two weeks leeway before I actually needed the medication. Overall it took about a month for me to get this prescription, I was lied to twice that it had been sent to the pharmacy, left numerous (polite) reminder voicemails without ever getting a call back. In the end I ended up having to take sick time off of work to go pick up the prescription and some sample meds, since I was out. When I got there, they politely informed me they had sent the prescription in that morning, but only after I called and left message saying I was coming down there (this one, the tone wasn’t so polite). I talked to the woman who deals with these things, and she lied right to my face and tried to blame it on the insurance company, who I knew doesn’t even get involved until the prescription is given to the pharmacy! I was so upset and I don’t articulate well anyway, I just let it go.

    But the fact of the matter is, this woman lied multiple times, didn’t seem bothered by any of it, and this physician’s group only has one point of contact for anything besides appt.’s, and I’m pretty sure she’s the only one who checks the voicemails (i.e. this is her job).

    So my question is, should I write up an account of what happened and send it to the doctor’s themselves (this is in fact the second time I’ve had issues with them, the first time, I never got called back about something pretty important)? Unfortunately I like the doctors, and have had such a hard time finding good ones before I don’t want to shop around again, but the office staff is obviously in complete disarray (phones being switched off before end of business, not being switched on in the mornings, incorrect fax numbers, etc), and every single doctor I’ve used before has never had just one point of contact, and obviously this woman isn’t doing the job.

    Sorry for the long posting, I’ve been going back and forth on this a lot, and I’m just wondering, is this something employers/doctors care about, would the letter be taken seriously?

    1. fposte*

      Is there a business manager or practice manager? I might try to contact them, if so; otherwise I’d probably mention to my doctor next time that I had real problems with followthrough on the single point of contact person, and could I go through a nurse or somebody this time?

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Send it to the office manager. That person is who I talked to when I had a problem with my doctor not getting back to me (that was two doctors ago–my PCP office is a residency program). Unless this person IS the office manager, and then I would try to find out who she answers to.

    3. Persephone Mulberry*

      This is absolutely something the clinic will (okay, should) care about. I would write the letter and address it to the top doctor or clinical director, and mark it Confidential. The main reason I wouldn’t send it to the office manager’s attention is that if the practice is small, this woman may BE the office manager.

      1. Anonsie*

        Or she may open and route all the mail no matter what it’s labeled– that’s not unusual.

        The best thing to do might be to talk to the doctor directly and find out how to contact the clinic manager, if there is one.

        1. EAA*

          Agree – Make an appointment with the doctor to talk specifically about this. Bring a list of every contact and the result you had regarding the medication request. Unfortunately you can’t be the only one with this problem and may just have to find a new doctor if the doctor does not/will not address the problem.

    4. Anonsie*

      If I had a dollar for every time this had happened to me at a doctor’s office, I would be rich.

    5. chewbecca*

      This brings back nightmares of my previous doctor. Twice I had to call the on call doctor on a Friday afternoon because the refill request I submitted on Monday still hadn’t been approved. I felt awful doing it, since I know that’s not what they were for, but I needed my medication.

      Definitely say something. Lying is very much not okay, especially with something as important as your medication!

  93. Jill-be-Nimble*

    Does anyone in PR have any advice on how to get in and what job titles to look for?

    I have a background in editorial and visual journalism and am looking for something more stable than my current contracts. At a career fair, a recruiter from a large PR firm got very excited about my resume and started asking leading questions like, “Are you any good at talking to both writers and artists/bridging the gap between editorial and art departments?”

    I got excited because this is something I’m very good at, but is hard to find jobs for. He said that he was an Account Supervisor, but that he wanted me to meet with his creative team…that there might be an opening in a few months. He says that he’s passed my resume on to the creative team, but that they’re very busy.

    In the meantime, many of my contracts are ending and there is an Account Executive job open at the firm that I might be a fit for–but I really don’t understand PR firm structures. What might be the type of Art/Editorial position he was referring to? I asked him, and all he said was “Creative,” but that he thinks I might be an excellent fit as an Account Executive as well. Do I go ahead and apply, or see if something shakes out with the creative team first?

    Also, with larger firms like this, would there be an opportunity for me to start as an Account Executive and then move to a Creative team once I get a better sense of the landscape?

    Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

  94. Annika*

    Whoa, 600 comments already.

    Has anyone just been through the H-1b visa lottery? I have and it was such a terrible experience (though I got picked). Just wondering how everyone is doing.

  95. Malissa*

    I had the best phone screen this morning. But it does make the second interview in a week where the interviewers didn’t really have any questions. I pretty much led both interviews. Is this bizarre or what?

    1. Malissa*

      And I just got called to meet the team over lunch next week!
      Now where to find my motivation to finish working today…

  96. Michelle*

    Anyone have ideas for a Mass Comm major trying to land a marketing job? My husband primarily has had sales jobs with input in marketing even though it wasn’t his primary role. Time and time again, he’s getting feedback that he isn’t qualified for marketing positions because he hasn’t written specific marketing plans. He is super creative and could most definitely prove himself if given the chance.

    1. Graciosa*

      He’s getting very clear direction about what he needs to land the job he wants; the only question is how he can get some experience writing specific marketing plans. Can he ask to shadow and assist someone in his current job who does this? Volunteer to do this work for a non-profit? This is a little out of my field, so I’m not sure how a person would get this experience and be able to build a portfolio without actually doing the job (frustrating, I know) but I think he needs to apply his creativity to figuring this out.

      Good luck.

  97. hc*

    Daily reader, first-time commenter! I’m ~5 years of out college & thinking about the things I’ve liked and not liked about previous jobs. I sort of “fell into” digital/social marketing because of my first job out of college and my geographic area of the US — but I’m not entirely sure that’s what I want to continue to do.

    If I’m really honest with myself, the parts I’ve most enjoyed about the jobs I’ve held are the customer service pieces — interacting with happy or unhappy customers, solving their problems. Now, can anyone help me brainstorm how I could grow in this sort of area? Is it long-term or sustainable? How does one go from literally answering emails and tweets to managing the people answering emails and tweets, or working in the customer relations or quality control department? Is this a legit career path, in which I might someday make enough to actually save for a down payment?!

    1. Celeste*

      I think it’s entirely possible. I’ve had friends who worked for insurance companies be able to move up from customer service work to management work, for one example. I think banking is another.

    2. BG*

      I think it’s possible!

      Like you, I fell into digital marketing, as my first job out of college was at an online marketing agency. I had been on the tactical side for awhile (execution mostly, and a bit of strategy), and then moved into an online marketing manager role at a small company, so I was doing strategy and execution. I was laid off, but I just started a new job this week that is more client facing/ customer service oriented- basically account management with more big picture strategy, not just managing the day to day of accounts (there is actually someone who does that, too).

      Is that what you’re thinking of, or do you want a more direct customer service role?

      1. hc*

        That’s exactly what I’m thinking. I don’t necessarily need to be client-facing, though I’m fine with that now, but I want to know that there’s a way to grow rather than be stuck at entry-level for years, you know what I mean? Do you mind sharing your new job title if you don’t mind? Congrats on finding something so soon after being laid off!

    3. Sunflower*

      Something you might want to consider also is hotels and hospitality. Operations management is more hands on and you might have a rough schedule but it’s relatively easy to advance and move up to make money. Hotel sales managers can make a lot, it’s usually a 9-5 job with some weekend work and it’s not as pushy as other sales jobs. A lot of it is problem solving to figure out how to make the client happy while staying profitable for the hotel.

    4. Lucy*

      Have you thought about working at a software company? At my previous job, I worked with a customer service associate for our grants management system who was SO wonderful- she knew the product, but she was responsive and helpful and pleasant to work with.

      1. hc*

        I like this idea — I’d much rather be in-house than agency-side. I’m just worried about getting stuck in a customer-facing, entry-level role and having no room for advancement. I don’t imagine I’ll want to be at that level in 5 years!

    5. AVP*

      Since you have marketing experience, what about becoming an account person at an agency? It’s basically a lot of handholding and making people happy, smoothing over problems, etc. And there seems to be a pathway in by looking for “junior account exec” type positions.

    6. Mae*

      There are also museums and other public institutions that need folks at Information desks and answering general inquiries about the public!

  98. UnhappyUnpaidIntern*

    Dilemma: How do I quit my unpaid internship when I said that I was interested in interning for one year?

    Situation: I found an unpaid internship at a nonprofit that I thought would be an amazing experience. Everything about it sounded like a perfect fit and I was so excited to finally get some real work experience in my field. During the interview they asked if I would be open to interning for one year. At the time I was very interested in the idea. . . 4 months later, I am very unhappy with the internship, the work, the staff, and the org and completely disillusioned. I want to end it at the end of the semester in May, but I’m not sure how to proceed.

    1. fposte*

      I think it’s always okay to leave unpaid work for paid work–can you get a summer job that’s also an easy out?

    2. lavendertea*

      I would just tell them your plans/interests changed and you decided to pursue other things. Part of the point of interning is deciding if a given career path is right for you.

      1. College Career Counselor*

        Nobody should have to honor an unpaid internship for an entire year. Agreed with both lavendertea & fposte: tell ’em that your career plans have focused in a different direction and/or that you’ve had to pursue paid employment, which means unfortunately that you can’t continue in this role. One caveat: is this a full-time unpaid internship? Can you/do you want to drop down to part-time? Would this help you gain additional experience, or would it just be the same experience over and over?

    3. UnhappyUnpaidIntern*

      There are lots of opportunities for summer internships/employment in my area so I don’t think I will have any issue finding something else. Its also just a part-time internship so I am not leaving lots of projects unfinished or anything like that. I don’t want to go back on my word, but I am not interested in staying at all. I suppose I’ll have to just explain the situation to them and hope for the best.

      My other concern is timing – is 2 weeks notice appropriate for internships?

  99. AAA*

    I have a question about balancing financial and health decisions. I know this is only tangentially work related–but you’re a really smart community and I’d love some advice.

    I recently signed up for healthcare coverage under the ACA, but I’m thinking about stopping my payment of premiums. I *want* to like Obamacare so badly–but I’m going broke! And feeling like a deadbeat for not paying my bills.

    Background: 31 years old–lucky enough to be healthy! I have 2 jobs; I work at each for about 30 hrs each week. I am ineligible for insurance at either, but I make *just* over the $45,000 subsidy threshold for the ACA. (Actually last year I only made 34,000, but I’m working my butt off now and really trying to save money!)

    Until January 1, I had $100/month catastrophic insurance, which is perfect for my needs, but no longer available under the ACA. My new premiums are $240/month.

    I live in a really high COL area, and I’m budgeted pretty tightly. I was just able to afford the $100/month insurance. Now I’m looking at the trade-off of:
    a.) continuing to pay off my student loans and being able to save ~$150/month
    or
    b.) having health insurance but not keeping up with my loan payments (or restructuring them so I will ultimately end up paying a lot more interest)

    I’m really trying to be financially smart here. I am only just now starting to be in any position to save money and that is only because I have made some other serious changes like riding my bike to work and cutting out luxuries.
    But what if I get appendicitis or in a car accident? I want my catastrophic insurance back!
    Advice?

    1. Celeste*

      If you made slightly less money, would that help with what insurance you could qualify for (sorry, not clear on how that works in your state)?

      Otherwise all I can think of is get different work that either pays more or has insurance, or get married to somebody who has insurance through their job and can cover you. Not exactly easy solutions, I know. You are too old to be on your parents’ coverage.

      I am really sorry for your situation here. I just don’t think it’s supposed to be this hard. :(

      1. AAA*

        Yes, if I made slightly less money I’d qualify for subsidies. Unfortunately one position requires me to work 30/hrs a week (inflexible Gov’t job), and the other is a set price contract position (Adjunct Professor) so there’s not a lot of wiggle room in reducing hours to qualify for subsidies…and I’m barely making it as it is.

        There’s also the problem that I *did* already sign up for the insurance based on what I think I’ll make this year–I’m just finding that I really can’t afford it, and I can’t be reassessed for subsidies unless I lose one of my jobs. Or ideally — get a new job altogether that offers insurance!

        Under Obamacare they consider people like me the “young invincibles” — too young and healthy to see the cost of insurance as worth it– but at 31 I’m not feeling young or invincible…but I know that the only thing I’d use the insurance for is in case of a true emergency. That is worth $1200/year to me, but is it worth $2880/year? (Plus the increased cost of the student loan interest–which I haven’t calculated, but would be $1000s of dollars over the repayment period)

        What’s the statistical likelihood that I’ll get hit on my bike on my way to work before I am successful in securing a job that offers reasonable insurance? How do you even calculate that?
        I *hate* these trade-offs.

        I’m also a little peeved that my insurance has to come out of my post tax earnings rather than pre tax…but that’s another story.

        1. Celeste*

          God, what a mess.

          I will cross my fingers that you can find something else so you are not working 60 hours a week just to not make it. Because that’s what this boils down to, and it’s awful.

        2. CTO*

          Something to know about ACA tax credits: eligibility is based on not only your income, but on the average cost of health insurance for you (based on age and location). The government determines a percentage of your income that you should be able to pay towards health insurance (usually 9.5 percent). If the average cost of plans (based on the price of the second-lowest-cost silver plan, if you really want to know) and gives you tax credits if the cost of the plan is more than what they’ve determined you should be able to pay.

          All that to say, there’s no guarantee of subsidies just because you get under that $45,000 mark. It depends on other factors, too. For instance, my area has some of the nation’s lowest insurance premiums. I know many folks, particularly young folks, earning $35-40,000 who still don’t receive tax credits because the insurance offerings are deemed “affordable” without subsidies. Whether or not they truly are affordable to that individual depends on their other life expenses, debts, etc. of course.

          Also, remember that you will face tax penalties if you have a catastrophic plan that doesn’t meet the “minimum essential coverage” standard. That penalty in 2014 is 1% of taxable income or $95, whichever is HIGHER. It doubles in 2015 and goes up again in 2016. So keep that potential $450 tax penalty in mind when you make your calculations.

          I’m not trying to push anyone towards a specific decision, but I just want to make sure people get accurate information so they make a really informed decision about what’s best for them. (State-certified insurance navigator here.)

    2. Annie O*

      AAA, I don’t think there are any good options. Obamacare is set up so that folks like you can subsidize the older, sicker folks in the same risk pool. It’s very likely that you’re going to be paying a lot more in premiums than you’ll receive in care. That’s just the way it’s set up. According to a recent interview, President Obama suggested that people who earn around $40k and are facing $300 premiums should cut phone or cable. If that’s not possible, I would think the only option is to look for different work.

      I’m so sorry. Situations like this are just horrible.

      1. AAA*

        Yep — I realize this is how it works, but it is really frustrating! In theory I don’t mind helping out those less fortunate with their health than I am. I expected that I’d be paying more than my catastrophic plan cost, but I didn’t expect it to mean that I would literally have to go further into debt in order to afford health coverage (that I most likely will not use).

        I already don’t have a landline or cable. Unfortunately I need a smartphone for work (though I pay for it myself) or that would be gone too.

        I feel like my only sensible financial option is to cut the insurance entirely since there isn’t something that fits in my budget–but I’m scared that something bad is going to happen, and then all my wise financial planning will be for naught when I’m stuck with a $75,000 hospital bill.

    3. AVP*

      To be fair, if you still had that catastrophe insurance and had to use it, paying the deductible would likely put you in the same situation you’re in now…

      *Said as someone with a 5-10K deductible on a past but similar plan!

      1. AAA*

        Yes, but with my catastrophic plan premiums I’d at least be able to save some money on a regular basis that could be the start of an emergency fund. The thing is I’m *not* likely to have to use a catastrophic plan, and thus only have to pay the lower premiums until something scary happens.

        With my new plan under the ACA, I *still* have a $3000 deductible *plus* $2880 in yearly premiums. My old deductible was about $4500.

    4. AAA*

      Also– Just to be clear I *am* looking for different work — That’s what brought me to AAM in the first place :)

      Working 60+ hours a week for barely enough to live on is hard–I’m not even in a minimum wage or unskilled position. (ah…the life of the “under-employed” phd…overeducated, underqualified, and in debt).

      1. MJ*

        If you think you are going to continue working in government, you might look into student loan repayment options for government employees. I don’t know much about them, but I do know a former employee had her student loan negotiated to something she could afford, and if she had stayed with us (or another government agency) for 10 years, she would have had her remaining debt canceled at the 10-year mark.

        1. AAA*

          Thanks for the suggestion!
          I’ve looked in to this– I really like that they even offer a loan forgiveness program! I can indeed get my loan restructured and lower my monthly payment–this is what I’d have to do to continue my insurance. I’ve only been able to pay the premiums for the past few months by dipping into my very limited savings. Unfortunately this means paying many thousands of dollars more for the loan in the long run if I don’t end up qualifying for the debt forgiveness program after 10 years of public service.

          Honestly, I don’t know if I’ll stay in a government position for long enough to qualify for forgiveness, a lot of it depends on if I can find a new job that is the right fit (the one I’m in now is very far outside my field of study and not what I want to do career-wise), but it would be an expensive gamble to restructure my payments if I didn’t end up qualifying for the loan forgiveness program in the end.

          1. MJ*

            You could restructure for the short-term, and when your financial situation improves, you can probably pre-pay your loan and avoid much of that extra expense… Read the small print on your loan refinance!

          2. StudentA*

            Depending on what your PhD is in, maybe teaching that subject in public high school is an option? They might help with loans?

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I have a base line policy through an employer.
      My insurance went from $68 last year to $240 this year.

      Dear Government:
      Please STOP helping us. Please.

      My electric bill doubled suddenly this winter. Some people’s tripled. And then there is oil…. sigh.

      I wrote the prez. But I don’t think he heard me.

    6. Cat*

      It looks like there’s a third option. You’re currently paying student loans and saving $150/month? The third option is to pay the premiums; pay your student loans; and cut the savings. Clearly not ideal, but perhaps better than defaulting on your student loans.

  100. Cath in Canada*

    I had my annual performance review yesterday, and overall it went really well (as did the “what can I do better” and “what can I be doing now to make sure I’m one of the front runners next time an internal promotion possibility opens up” conversations – thanks to advice gleaned from this site, so thank you Alison and commenters!)

    The one thing that was a tiny bit of a downer was that I got my first ever “substantially meets expectations” rating (all the others were “exceeds” or “fully meets”). It was for a self-directed learning goal that ended up being more time-consuming than I’d anticipated and that’s always the last priority after all my other work. My boss said that he thinks the fact I didn’t focus on this goal much shows good judgement and ability to prioritize, and indeed he wrote just that in the comments, but the numerical score had to be quite low, and it brought my average down. It’s absolutely fair enough and I’m not suggesting that my boss should have handled it any other way – I just wish the system allowed supervisors to rank the importance of different goals!

  101. Ali*

    I don’t know if this will be seen but here we go. (And also my fault for not putting this in with my earlier question.) I also wrote to Alison, but am not sure if she’ll post this.

    I am job searching and it kind of depresses me a little that I’m not some “superstar” that pretty much every employer wants these days. I have recently re-written my resume to try and show off accomplishments more rather than just tasks. When I write cover letters, I try to include a paragraph that covers why I want to work for the specific company. I’ve been at my current company for a while and have had success on the performance review front. My managers have always seemed to like me, my coworkers said good things about me when I asked them during self-evaluation time and I haven’t been a part of any major disagreements. Yes, I have points to improve, but I doubt anyone is really perfect and has no weaknesses whatsoever. For the record, I’m primarily an editor and do some writing on the side.

    But despite all this, I find that I am in the predicament of “being good isn’t good enough.” When I express interest in opportunities, whether at work or in my writing, the chances always go to others. I cannot find paid writing work despite my portfolio…and yes I have written for free. For a very long time. I always get “We can’t pay but…” or “This is great exposure and we’ll pay you when we get money.” I have watched two people I have written with get plush jobs, and everyone is saying oh so and so has worked hard and deserves it! While I don’t doubt it, no one ever seems to say the same thing to me. They just say “Keep trying; you’ll get something.” As if implying that I don’t work hard?

    When I ask for feedback on rejections, hiring managers usually tell me I was great and that I’d be an asset in my industry. They just always pick someone who has more specific experience, but again…I can’t get experience if I don’t get a chance! I can’t even get offers for lower level positions. Someone told me last night that I have to start somewhere. Well I would if someone would give me the chance! It’s not like I had an abundance of offers that I rejected or anything.

    TL;DR: I am just “average” and I kind of hate it. I wish I could be that star employee and be the one getting tons of interviews and more job offers than I knew what to do with. But despite kind words from others and success at my job now, no one seems interested when I send my resume.

    Ahhh…anyone else felt this way or feeling it right now? It just bums me out.

    1. Stephanie*

      I feel the same way at times. Don’t worry. Think of every mediocre coworker you’ve had–they all got hired somehow without having a Nobel prize on their résumé.

    2. Kerr*

      I’m in that boat right now, so it’s oddly comforting to hear that not everyone is getting cushy jobs (or ANY jobs) with the first, or second, or fiftieth, application they fill out. I’m holding out hope that I’ll find something, but it sure seems tough for an “average” candidate.

      1. Ali*

        I am holding out hope too. I’m glad I’m employed, at least, and not desperate for something. But even still…it feels like it’s a bad thing to be average or good but not great. I go through phases where I feel like my company doesn’t value me because of how easily others get opportunities I never even hear of that I’d have liked to be considered for.

        1. Sharm*

          It’s the culture at large too, and to some degree, even sites like these. The discussion is usually always about those on top, or those that are the best. I understand why and don’t begrudge their success. But what about the rest of us?

    3. Sharm*

      Right here, my friend. I so feel your pain. I felt like a superstar the first year of my career — I was thrown in a tough situation and came out of it alive, mostly because I kept my cool, my head down, and got work done. It built so much credibility for me at my organization. It carried me for five years, but I honestly feel I didn’t deserve it.

      Now that I’m out of the organization, I feel like I peaked that first year of my career. I don’t have any amazing accomplishments, have no real technical skills, and just feel average. I went to a top tier university, but have been on a decline ever since. People here the name and think, “Oh wow! So fancy!” but I’m like, “Not at all, I have been a massive failure!”

      Most of my peers are tech entrepreneurs, doctors, engineers, lawyers, and scientists. They are primarily professionals with “hard” skills – i.e. medicine or programming or heck, even graphic design. I don’t have any of that and just can’t see to stand out.

      I will say people love working with me, because I get my tasks done efficiently, ahead of schedule, and with a good sense of humor. Bosses adore me because I’m not difficult and a good worker. I’m not a jerk either. But… it’s definitely not enough in this economy.

      I feel lucky to be employed because otherwise I feel so blah. I just wish I could find my thing, and find the time to get good at it. So far, no dice.

      1. Ali*

        I don’t have really technical skills either. I was a communications major, and it seems like the thing to do is to have graphic design skills, especially Adobe. But I have never really been artsy and have no desire to learn that. I tried to suck it up once and talk myself into doing it, but I’d rather get more skills in social media or something than anything requiring layout, Photoshop, etc. Yet pretty much any kind of communications job wants Adobe skills.

        My cousin, meanwhile, graduated with a mechanical engineering degree and had a good-paying job (with three weeks off at the end of the year) right after college and now rents a house with his girlfriend. He’s going back for his Master’s next year, but to a different college. I had to live at home b/c it took me so long to get on my feet…now I need to save money to move and God knows that will take forever. A lot of my coworkers live on their own in places like NYC and San Francisco, with two OWNING homes elsewhere. I don’t even feel like an adult. Ugh.

        Not to mention everything else I want to do it seems like everyone else wants to do it too. I’ve looked at working in HR, moving to the nonprofit world and even have my license to teach Zumba. Yet it seems like I keep picking the popular professions everyone else would die to get into. Can. Not. Win.

        1. Sharm*

          I so, so feel you. I was a communications major too. I took on econ as a double major, and hated it. It tanked my GPA, and it really left my shaken, as I couldn’t understand it and still don’t. I downplay that degree all the time because people seem to think I’ll have opinions on the economy. I don’t; I just know it sucks.

          I’m the same re: graphic design. I *should* have the skill set for this line of work, but am not artistic at all. I just don’t think that way. I’d prefer to get into social media and analytics, but like you say, everyone and their mother wants to do it too! No one wants to give an inch. I’ve asked how I can get more experience, and people here tell me to volunteer, but I’m here to tell you it isn’t easy. No one is willing to let someone with no experience just experiment with their social media. And most of them want to do it themselves.

          I hate technology because I feel like I just keep falling farther and farther behind. Ugh, I’m in a depression spiral today. I should stop posting!

      2. Stephanie*

        I went to a top tier university, but have been on a decline ever since. People here the name and think, “Oh wow! So fancy!” but I’m like, “Not at all, I have been a massive failure!”

        Uh huh. This totally. Classmates who did well at my alma mater were able to land really prestigious jobs and get into prestigious grad schools. I feel like a total screwup in comparison.

        Of course, I’m aware that (a) I’m 28 and still have at least 35+ years of work ahead and (b) going to HBS or wherever isn’t a guarantee of success.

        1. Sharm*

          I know! I shouldn’t be riding those coattails at all, but sadly, it’s all I feel I have anymore. I was great at 17! Hence my post from last week.

          People still say nice things about my work, but it’s just not on the same level as the group that I used to feel I belonged to. The prestige/status/power/responsibilities of so many of the folks I knew absolutely overwhelms anything I’ve done. I definitely feel like the chaff to their wheat.

          1. Stephanie*

            I know what you mean. IIRC, you’re a couple of years older than me (like early 30s). It may just take a bit of time to figure out your niche. I listen to Marc Maron’s WTF podcast, where he interviews comedians (he’s a comedian himself). I’m a bit of a comedy nerd, but what’s interesting about it is how he and his guests openly talk about their career failures and missteps. A couple of weeks ago, Lewis Black was the guest. He said he didn’t get his big break until he was in his early 50s and didn’t get his trademark “angry” style down until his late 40s.

            I also have to remember that things might look good from the outside for some of my peers, but the reality might be far different. My college friend did really well, landed a prestigious consulting job post-college, went on to an elite business school and got another prestigious job post-school. Last time I talked to her, she was (a) dreading going back into consulting because she knew the work-life balance was horrible and (b) feeling stuck since that job was the only feasible way to service her $200k in student loans.

            It’s easy to be jealous from the outside. I tell myself, however, that I’d have to take the upsides and the downsides of someone’s situation (so elite MBA along with the crazy debt and job in the scenario I mentioned). That usually keeps things in perspective for me.

            Also, you have skills! Your job may not be a clear “trade” like a doctor or lawyer, but you’ve brought some value to your role (or they would have gotten rid of you by now).

            This was a little jumbled. I hope this helps!

        2. Sharm*

          Also, maybe they’re doing better than me because they know it’s “hear” and not “here.” Oy.

          1. Stephanie*

            Meh. Not necessarily. I was amazed at how many of my engineering classmates fit the stereotype of having good hard skills and horrible soft skills.

            1. Ali*

              Too bad none of us seem to live near each other. The three of us could meet and just commiserate.

              I am waiting to hear back about a volunteer social media role. Yeah it’s volunteer and all that crap, but it will help me start building skills if the manager of the site I talked to will take a chance on me.

  102. saro*

    Hi everyone,
    I’m late but hopefully I can get some feedback. Are there any former expats who have successfully transitioned back to the U.S.? I have experience in rule of law, international development and international commercial legal work – I’m trying to figure out what my options are and how to make that transition. I’m a U.S. citizen if that matters.

  103. Elizabeth*

    My employer has been having layoffs the last couple weeks. I’ve been half-expecting them for awhile. There’s been some publicity this (it is never a good idea when your employer is on the front page of The Drudge Report).

    One of our semi-local competitors gave me a call earlier this week, to let me know that they have several positions open in my field, in case anyone in our department was let go. Just out of curiosity, I looked them up. Of the 9 positions, I’m well-qualified for 3 and 1 I could probably talk my way into, if I could get a promise of some training.

    The most demoralizing part was to find out that my current hourly wage after nearly 20 years is right around the starting wage is for the open positions.

  104. Carrie in Scotland*

    So I’m filling out a job application and the current job part there is when started/when left – but I haven’t left my current job, there isn’t a “current” box to tick and I need to complete it – what do I put? Today’s date? But does that not make it look like I’ve just left it??

    1. AAA*

      Have you tried putting a date in the future? Like 2 weeks from now–if that would be your likely availability to start?
      Electronic systems like this are the worst, but I’ve gotten away with this sometimes.

  105. Ask a Manager* Post author

    1. I am in constant phone interviews this week so if I seem less attentive in the comments, that’s why. I am lying on the couch with a phone in my hand constantly — it’s like reliving my teenage years.

    2. We’re gearing up to upgrade the site. I’m very excited. No major redesign or anything like that, but we’re going to try some of the changes that people have suggested, like a better search engine, something other than a stark white background (like a soft grey, maybe), and most important of all, we’re going to see if we can find a way to differentiate comments that start a comment thread from the ones that reply to it. It’ll also be a responsive site with a medium tablet version and a small mobile version to improve the usability on smaller screens.

  106. Brittany*

    OK guys. I’m at that moment where I just can’t think of anything nice to say to this email from my former boss/current client.

    The deal is, she laid me off before the holidays and then took me back on freelance with the idea that we’d agree to cut out the parts of my old job that I hated/wasn’t good at. And that worked, for about a month, and then some of the people who took on those other tasks that fell under my title were fired, so they trickled back to me.

    And now, she back to treating me like an employee. Except…I’m a freelancer now. With other clients. And not only is she the boss that laid me off, but she is a witch. I’m working hard now to get new, steady clients to replace her with, but I have a couple months to go before saying see-ya is a reality.

    Question: How do I have the “simmer down, I’m not an employee anymore and you need to stop treating me like one” conversation without losing my cool? And how do I, ahem, simmer down?

      1. Ruffingit*

        I think you need to be very clear with her what your job is. I’ve done freelance myself so I know it can be hard when clients want to treat you like employees. This is especially true when you’ve been an employee. Some people have a hard time making the transition from “I’m the boss” to “I’m the client.” Because she’s not your boss, she’s your client. And that makes the relationship very, very different.

        I’d sit down with her and carefully lay out what you are able and willing to do. And that is the key here – what are you able and willing to do given the fact that you have other clients and other responsibilities? You need to be able to say “I can do X, Y, and Z tasks, but I cannot do A, B, and C. I need you to understand that I am contracted for this, this and that and that is all I can do for you.” If she balks, then you have to decide what you’re willing to do about that. Your choices are: Do only the tasks you agreed to do anyway regardless, dump her now as a client, or do all the work she wants you to do.

        Basically, this is about removing the emotions and doing some math – what are you able to accomplish for this client in the time you have to give her?

        Also, if you’re freelancing, you need to get comfortable with contracts. I really hope you have one with her. If you don’t, going forward be sure and do this because it protects you and your interests as well as laying out what you can and can’t do for the client.

        Be sure that you are not treating this as an employment relationship because it’s a very different set-up so don’t fall into that trap yourself as she is trying to do. She’s not your boss, she’s your client. You’re not her employee, you’re a contractor. Clear roles, clear expectations can help a lot in these situations.

  107. Celeste*

    Put it on her to prioritize things. Something like, “As you recall, I’m a freelancer now. I can give you 20 hours a week (or whatever), so please decide what is your highest priority for me to finish in that time.”. Do you have any kind of contract you can fall back on?

    It sounds like she is desperate to get the work done, so I’m not sure she would ditch you.

    Luckily it sounds like you can stay behind the screen and not have to face her in a building, so there’s that. Good luck with the steady clients!

  108. Mallory*

    Can anyone tell me the ” . . . For Dummies” version of how to disable Lync (Office 2013) from launching on startup? I don’t use Lync, and I just want to remove it from automatically starting up whenever I log in to my computer. Everything I google about it seems to be IT folks talking above my head to other IT folks.

    1. GigglyPuff (formerly O)*

      Open the Lync window, on the right side about a third of the way down, there’s a “tool” image with the drop down menu arrow, click on it, scroll down to “tools”, then “options”. It should open a new “options” window. On the left hand side if you click on “Personal”, the first check marked box, should say “Automatically start Lync when I log on to Windows”, unmark the box. :)

      1. Mallory*

        OMG — that was so easy! Thanks a million, GigglyPuff!

        How come people who comment in those forums never say anything that easy? All the comments I saw in there were about how to write a script to solve the problem o.O

  109. Ask a Manager* Post author

    If you have an unlimited vacation time policy at your office and would you be willing to talk to a reporter from Kiplinger’s Personal Finance magazine about it:
    A reporter there, Miriam Cross, is looking for someone to weigh in with his or her own thoughts or experiences about this kind of policy. If you fit the profile and are willing to talk, you can email her at mcross at kiplinger dot com.

  110. K*

    I just started a job last month and have been making mistakes. Sometimes they are pretty obvious one or ones that would have been fixed if I slowed down and thought it out. I am just concerned that I am making too many mistakes and it will look bad. I have this constant fear that I am going to be let go because I am not preforming well.

    1. fposte*

      Are you talking to your manager? See if you can start checking in a little more often, if you’re not. This might be one of those situations where it’s worse because you’re imagining what people think and it would improve if you didn’t have to imagine.

    2. CrazyCatLady*

      I think it depends on what the mistakes are and what the typical ramp-up period is for your job. Mistakes are to be expected, especially when you’re learning a new job. Are you making the same mistakes over and over again? You seem to realize many of them would be caught if you just slowed down – so slow down :)

      1. K*

        Yes I am going to try to concentrate more on slowing down. I am not really making to many of the same kind of mistakes over and over. One of them is that I am new to having to have my supervisor read my emails before I send them out to ‘important’ people. I sent one out and forgot to send it to my supervisor first and what I sent wasn’t exactly worded the way they wanted it to be worded. Its just something that is taking time to get used to

        1. danr*

          Write this stuff down in a list, and make yourself refer to it each time. DON’T depend on memory. If your calendar program has Tasks, make it an open or recurring task. Take a few minutes to read over your tasks at the start of each day.
          Take a look at the posts in the Workplace habits category.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Years ago I had a job where everything I touched just crumbled.

      Which, of course, set me on edge and guess what? More things crumbled.

      Part of it was inherit in the job. Lots of balls in the air and you were bound to miss a few.
      This line of thought did not help me in the least.

      So, what I did was I decided to just own each and every darn mistake. I went back and fixed as much as I could. I apologized for stuff that got by me.

      What happened next? No one cared. It was fine. I calmed down, I made less mistakes and it was okay. I think for me, committing to fixing my errors turned the tide on this one. Something in that commitment calmed the nervousness in me in an odd way that I can’t really explain that well.

      Look for ways to break the cycle- mistake happens- get more nervous- another mistake happens- get even more nervous. Figure out where in that circle you can break in.

      Some stuff was easy to fix. If I taped the phone number to the phone, I would stop giving out the wrong number. One problem solved. Move on to the next problem.

  111. Remaining Anon Momentarily*

    My company has this new employee assistance fund. If you get into a bind, you can apply for financial assistance. These can be from paying bills to starting from scratch after your house burns down. The only thing an employee has to do is provide the proper documentation in order to get assistance. I do not know all the ins and outs, but at least it sounds like something nice.

    But how are they funding it? The company has been in rough shape complete with bankruptcy. Well, they rely on donations from all employees. Every week, at least in my location, there is a 50/50 raffle. 50% of the proceeds goes to the fund and the winner gets the other 50%. One ticket is $2. Another way is to allow blue jean Fridays for another $1. And every week, the manager goes around to the different departments and asks if people want to take part in the 50/50.

    Truthfully, it makes me uncomfortable. I participated it in on the first week, thinking it was only going to be one week. But thus far it has been every week for nearly a month now. While this might sound crazy, I don’t want my lack of participation to reflect on my overall performance and make it so that I am let go or fired. I look at it this way. If I donate $2 each week, that’s $104 a year. There’s no guarantee I’ll win (usually roughly $50 winnings), and if I don’t, I’m $100 in the whole. Furthermore, after considering my current situation, even if I needed financial assistance, I know I would be denied assistance from that fund. And let’s say I actually do meet their criteria if I needed to ask, I don’t want to penalized because I didn’t participate.

    Money is tight for me right now. While $2 is not enough to break the bank, week in and week out, it starts to add up, especially if I do not win (I gamble I take). Would I look like a Scrooge or a non-team player if I refuse to participate all the time? My supervisor participates every week, but I do not know about everyone in the entire location. But I cringe every time the manager comes over and says, “Hey! Do you want to buy into this week’s raffle?” and “Last chance!”

    1. Ruffingit*

      I don’t think you’ll look like a Scrooge or a non-team player if you don’t participate. Every single week at $2 a pop adds up as you said. Also, it’s interesting to me that they’d start a fund for employee assistance and then try to fund it by shaking down the very employees the thing is set up to help. How do they know you’re not in a needy place right now?

      The idea of an employee assistance fund is nice on its face, but it’s completely ruined by the fact that they are shaking down the employees to fund it. If they think it’s so important, the company should fund it. If they can’t do so, then they shouldn’t have one. It’s just that simple for me.

      1. Remaining Anon Momentarily*

        The company emerged from bankruptcy not that long ago and is hanging on by the skin of its teeth. It can’t afford this. It can’t afford raises. Those is in upper management (yet non-corporate) haven’t seen raises in years.

        1. Ruffingit*

          Then it’s just bizarre that they would do this because not only can they not afford it, but they’re also shaking down employees that they will likely have to lay off shortly. I wonder if this is some kind of ruse to get employees to give money back to the company? Because seriously, this company is hanging on by the skin of its teeth and yet, they’re starting an employee benefit fund? That makes no sense because, as you mentioned, what happens if they go out of business? Who gets the money then? They do. So wrong.

          1. Remaining Anon Momentarily*

            Thank you. Your response makes my thinking feel validated because I thought I was the only person to think this.

            While on the surface, I find the idea refreshing for a company to think enough of its employees to create such a fund, but when I start to dig into all of the logistics, it doesn’t sound so good. My only benefit out of the whole thing would be to keep my $2/week because I am not about to gamble it away in a (perhaps illegal) 50/50. I’ll help myself that way and put it in the bank to earn interest or keep it under my mattress if my bank was to fail!

            For whatever is the real reason behind this, I just hope they do not use it against me or try to find other fault so they can get rid of me for being against this plan. I do eventually want to leave, but I want to leave on my own terms with another job in hand. I just don’t want to penalized for this.

    2. Annie O*

      I doubt the raffle is even legal. From your description, I have my doubts the company has worked with the state and IRS to obtain the proper permits, documentation, etc. Just sayin.

      1. Remaining Anon Momentarily*

        I thought the same thing. And I don’t trust under the table sort of things either. I have not seen any proof of permits and neither of any proof as to how much money is in the fund either.

        And, if the company was to be sold/bought or just go out of business, what happens to the money then?

    3. Al Lo*

      Starbucks has an employee assistance fund, and when you fill out your new-hire paperwork, there’ s a box that you can check to have $2 taken off each (bi-weekly) paycheck into the fund.

      After that point, you could log into your employee portal and change your selection at any time.

      It always seemed like a nice idea to me, and fairly non-intrusive, financially; plus, the fact that it was so easy to change and not at all visible to anyone else (and after that initial sign-up, my managers never once mentioned it again, so there was no pressure to sign up if you declined) made it seem like a much better option.

      Not that that helps you much — your comment just reminded me of that.

  112. Co-Worker Won't Answer Questions?*

    I just started a job where a bunch of new people were hired at once. We work in a cubicle area, and the new hires and old employees are mixed together and spread out. When we have questions, we’re supposed to ask one of the old employees. To make sure all the questions don’t get directed at the same handful of people, we’ve been getting help from the coworkers who happen to be nearest us and we take turns with who we’re asking (if you ask Bob a question, you’d then ask Fred and Erin a question before going back to Bob).

    I visited “Jane’s” cubicle about three times last week to ask her questions, and each time she said she wasn’t sure and took me to someone else’s cubicle “because they know a lot more than her” and asked them. On Friday, I IMed her a question, and she didn’t answer, I just received the indication that she’d closed my IM. I’m not sure if this means that she doesn’t want to answer questions and I should stop bothering her, or if I should still try to ask her questions but do something different. Any advice?

    1. fposte*

      I think it means she doesn’t want to answer questions. Not fair on everybody else, but that’s the way it goes.

      1. Ruffingit*

        Agreed, stop asking her. Might help too if you offer to take the friendliest old employee to lunch and pick their brain all at once. I realize questions come up as you go along, but it can sometimes be helpful to sit down with someone and have them tell you basic procedures, office norms for certain tasks and so on. Essentially you’re doing a quick training so you can get a lot of info at one time rather than piecemeal questioning.

        When you do have questions though, skip Jane entirely. She’s shown she’s not going to be helpful so stop trying.

        1. Co-Worker Won't Answer Questions?*

          We actually got training on all the procedures, but it’s the type of work where unique/odd situations that need knowledge/experience beyond the typical procedures pop up all the time. The questions have to be answered while you go otherwise you’d be stuck on the same thing all day (it’s a processing job, so you have to get a lot of volume done). Otherwise that would have been a good suggestion. Thanks! :]

          1. Ruffingit*

            Ah, I gotcha. In that case, it would be helpful if old employees would do a scheduling thing where one of them is responsible for questions this week, another the next and so on. Too bad you can’t get it organized that way, seems it would be easier for everyone if they knew that Bob was on call this week for questions, Suzie next week and so on.

      2. Co-Worker Won't Answer Questions?*

        Yeah, normally if someone wasn’t responsive, I’d take a hint and avoid them, but I was having doubts since we were told to ask different people questions instead of going to the same people. But you’re right–if she doesn’t want to answer questions, that’s the way it goes.

    2. Jennifer*

      Hah, I have been Jane. Jane either doesn’t know the answers or isn’t confident enough in anything to be your go-to person.

      Stop asking her, you’re freaking her out.

      1. Co-Worker Won't Answer Questions?*

        I didn’t realize I might be freaking her out because she might not be confident enough. I thought maybe I was doing something wrong. Thanks for pointing that out!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Did the boss specifically ask Jane to help answer questions?

      I try to be understanding of people who can’t answer questions… but when my job is at stake my understanding shrinks. A lot.

      I have worked too many jobs where people refused to answer questions. Then they would stand around and complain about the stupid new hire. grrr.

      Fortunately, you have other people to go to. If they are ever all absent on the same day(probably won’t ever happen)- just go ask the boss what you should do.
      She might already know that Jane doesn’t answer questions and she might be working on that. Maybe.

      1. Co-Worker Won't Answer Questions?*

        The boss didn’t specifically ask Jane to answer questions–we’re just supposed to be able to ask all the old employee questions. They all have the same training/experience, so they should be about equally capable of answering most questions.

        I’m trying to be understanding about her not wanting to answer questions (I would be uncomfortable answering questions myself!). Her closing my IM and ignoring me instead of just telling me she didn’t know the answer is frustrating though, which makes me feel more annoyed and less understanding.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          This is going to sound snarky but I mean in a practical way- just frame it as “this woman can’t help me and I need to go around her to someone else”. Letting her get under your skin will only pull you down.

          I had recurring situation X at one job. I asked the woman whose job it was to help me…. uh, to come help me. (I must have taken leave of my senses.) Situation X was a serious situation, possibly life threatening. This woman would not come help each time I asked. One day something happened when X occurred and I had unusual/remarkable insight. Upper management noticed my insight. I got complimented on a good call. This woman came over to me and said “how did you figure that out?” I said “Oh, just from repeatedly handing the situation and making observations.” I turned and walked away from her. It was so wrong of me and yet sooo very satisfying. I had learned enough so that I no longer needed her.
          And this will be you. It won’t be long- six months? maybe a little more and you will not need this woman. Meanwhile you will have built relationships with your other coworkers as an added bonus. If I focused on the work itself these types of things became a non-issue later. (Except for the part where I could tell the boss- Don’t put the new hire with Betty. Betty doesn’t train.” And believe me, I made sure to say that at some point later on.)

          1. Ruffingit*

            I see nothing wrong with what you said to Betty. Seriously, she deserved it. I’m not a vindictive person by any means, but what you said to her was simply the truth. You learned how to make the right call because you were forced to do it yourself. Also, glad you told management not to put any unsuspecting new employees with Betty. I’m curious as to how they reacted when you told them that. I would hope they would say something to Betty about not doing her job. But either way, at least new people didn’t have to suffer so that’s a good thing.

  113. Anon for this*

    Not sure anyone will see this after 700+ comments:
    Alison has written about how to deal with requests for salary history, which I’ve found helpful in writing cover letters. But what do you do if an interviewer persists in asking, even when you’ve clearly stated that you don’t want to share that information? I had an interviewer (recruiter for temporary work, so not the typical interview) insist that this was a requirement; I eventually shared the numbers. I flubbed my responses, and I’m afraid I made myself look both difficult and naive.

    I made several obvious mistakes, but in this situation, I suspect the numbers would have been insisted on anyway. I was afraid that if I didn’t share my salary, I’d be written off as a difficult candidate and they’d drop my application entirely (or stop the interview, even). I’d like to think that with a better response and a typical interview situation this would have been different, but now I’m nervous about declining again, should it come up. I’m not hard to deal with, really; I just don’t want to be lowballed! Any suggestions for how to respond if an interviewer pushes so blatantly?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I think Alison does say if they push too hard then you pretty much have to tell them. But you can weigh that in, when considering their offer. Do they strong arm everything just because they can?

  114. Chris*

    A couple things to outlet on: specifically, this is due to more annoyances with career sections of company websites:

    1) Allowing one cover letter and one resume attached to your profile:

    This is annoying for a few reasons.

    a): it’s difficult to tailor around if you have to go back to your profile page every time you want to tailor your resume for different positions (as opposed to just submitting a different tailored resume directly for each job).

    b): if a manager views your profile from the outside, the last thing he will see will be the tailored cover-letter & resume to what you applied to last time. Say there’s a flight test engineering position and a mechanical engineering position in the company you feel like applying to. You then tailor the goods to the flight test position first, then retailor the goods to the mech position later. Now, say you fail to get both jobs, but maybe there’s another opening for flight test eng. that becomes available. If an HR guy looks at your profile, your goods look decked toward the mechanical engineering side of life (even though you could do flight test just fine). Obviously, this is a problematic position to be in if you are a job hunter.

    2) Applications requiring the username / password on the job application page.

    Some job applications, for whatever reason, don’t make it obvious to access your profile then apply to jobs from there. Some let you apply for the job, but want your username and password on the same page they require you to fill out all the other miscellaneous requirements, which can take up to 20 minutes to fill out in many cases. What’s the issue here: sometimes if you type in your username / password wrong, it tells you to try again as it deletes everything else you wrote on the page .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zhJljblPcY

    3) Resume Parsers

    Some company websites parse your resume then fill out a profile for you based on what it reads. It sounds great in theory, except I have never seen one copy my resume perfectly. Time that could be spent tailoring resumes now has to be spend making sure that everything was read correctly and that there aren’t any profile typos (listing my home phone number as my cell, copying a bullet point for one section under another section, etc.). My opinion is that until the time comes when resume formats become standardized, these need to go.

    4) Job pages that require you to submit your resume in a txt based region, then later on want you to submit a pdf.

    Ambiguity and uncertainty are the two biggest allies for the great demon called U.N.Owen. When ambiguity and uncertainty rise beyond comprehensible proportions, U.N.Owen will rise from the deeps and claim his rule over all humanity.

    Don’t allow U.N.Owen to rise from his great slumber. Don’t make it ambiguous as to what will be read and what won’t. Don’t make job seekers paranoid from uncertainty that if there are any text differences between the two will be auto-rejected(because sometimes the txt versions are part of the profile, not the application).

    1. Chris*

      2 more things:

      5) Jobs requiring skills that is either ITAR restricted or is software that you can only learn working in that company.

      The former hurts more for research purposes, but the latter sometimes requires knowledge of CFD programs or whatever that, upon Googling, are programs developed and used solely by that company. Minor irritation.

      6) Intern positions requiring you to be in school.

      Subject sort of for another day, but the tl;dr is that there’s a lot more job seekers than there used to be and not necessarily an increase in internship positions. With internships becoming the new entry-level job, an arbitrary ban like this leaves a lot of people biting the dust if they can’t get one since they “already graduated.”

  115. Ruffingit*

    FRIDAY BEST AND WORST!

    What was the worst thing about your week?

    What was the best thing about your week?

    1. CollegeAdmin*

      Worst thing about my week – so many things, but the highlight was both of my bosses procrastinating and then making everything my problem, so I had to work through lunch yesterday plus stay 2 hours late to get everything done before my day off today (which has been scheduled for quite some time). Whoever said “Your poor planning does not constitute my emergency” was not an assistant.

      Best thing about my week – I am off today! I’m finishing the last piece of my grad school app and then enjoying the long weekend.

    2. LMW*

      The website I’ve been trying to get built for six months finally went live today. It took a ridiculously long time to get something really simple built, so I’m very happy!

    3. Chris*

      Worst? Ehh. Major fight with my dad. Honestly, job hunting full time for the last two years or so has really done a number on my mind. I swear a lot more than I did in college and I find myself having random outbursts of rage that 2 years ago would have been uncharacteristic of me. I used to wrestle in high school, and the coaches there tried to help get me angry since I was very indifferent emotionally then. Now though, if someone makes a random remark such as how “they’re bored at work” or “not doing anything aerospace related at work,” I snap.

      Actually, I lied. The Felix Hernandez / Yu Darvish game was the worst thing about my week. Mariners baseball the last 5 years can be summed up in these 4 words:

      “Felix Felixes. Mariners Mariner.”

      A game with Felix at his best (again) and then the bullpen hitting the fan in the 9th (again) is the worst sort of emotional pain anyone can be subject to.

      Best? Ehh. A couple things:

      -getting my subsonic wind tunnel simulation to start printing actual results (even though they laugh in the face of the continuity equation) was kinda neat.

      -watching Tony on Survivor is always fun. He’s an excitable character who makes strategic moves while at the same time is enjoyable on camera. He might have cost himself last night though, which would be a shame.

      1. Ruffingit*

        Sorry about the fight with your dad. Swearing and random outbursts of rage at the smallest irritation were par for the course for me while job hunting too. It doesn’t help that there are so many uninformed people out there who want to give you all kinds of advice, none of which would ever apply to your situation though they seem to think it does so they keep pushing it until finally you flip them the finger and scream F**K YOU, DIE! and then they get all upset and wonder why you’re being such a jerk to someone who’s just trying to be helpful…

        Yeah. Been there. All I can say is you’re totally normal and I understand.

        1. Chris*

          Yeah, pretty similar, but other things:

          – mentality change example: gaming backlogs. I have about 9-10 games I’ve bought on Steam that I haven’t touched (Deux Ex: Human Revolution, Batman Arkham Asylum / City, etc). Never even touched Skyward Sword either. Used to be heavily involved in competitive Pokemon as well (until joining the Aeronautics Department; Engineering coursework and projects became complicated and took a long time to get through. Subject for another day though.) and I think I still have an unopened box of Black 2 somewhere in my room. A few years back, I always went through new games I bought. Now I just don’t feel like playing anything and I don’t know if it’s either me feeling like game time takes away from job hunting time (since job hunting time is neither vacation nor free time. It’s more like house arrest.), or if I’m just not interested in video games anymore.

          It’s a mentality change, and it’s unfortunate.

          – There is a chock ton of bad advice out there. A former classmate of mine is trying to switch aerospace firms and was asking about questions to ask after the interview. Some other former classmates were suggesting to ask if “there’s room for movement into different groups or roles within the company in case you don’t like the job,” or “ask the interviewer how they like their job.”

          Let’s just say it’s clear who has had to play this game and who hasn’t.

    4. Mimmy*

      I love that you’ve made this a regular part of the Open Thread!

      Best: Seeing Chris Rock at our local comedy club last night. His set was long, but he was really funny, as usual.

      Worst: None, thankfully :)

    6. Ruffingit*

      Worst: Feeling incompetent at my job. I’m still new to this field so that happens sometimes, but it’s not a fun feeling.

      Best: Looking forward to a fun and relaxing weekend with my husband and my dog. No better way to spend a day than hanging out with them and being lazy :)

    7. In progress*

      Best: Got an interview with a company I’ve always admired
      Worst: Had bad headaches most of the week so I have a lot of catching up to do.

    8. Jennifer*

      Nothing went terribly insane this week, so that’s my best. If nobody yelled at me for how terrible I do my job, HUZZAH!

      Worst was a guy on the phone all pissed off and calling for his kid about “where’s my letter, he has a job interview next week.” (We regularly have to ask dean’s offices if we have permission to write letters saying a student is done with school because it takes 2 months for people to be officially “graduated” in records.) I’m not the one working on the kid’s thing and the lady who is is out today, so I couldn’t find anything on it other than she e-mailed the dean’s office two weeks ago. The guy swore up and down that his kid said the dean’s office okayed it yesterday. Okay, fine, but I need to see proof of that. He just wanted to throw drama fits. I told him to call the coworker on Monday, which I’m sure she’ll totally enjoy, especially since he kept getting her name wrong on top of that.

      Helicopter parents, whee. I don’t know how kids like that are going to function. My mom was a proto-helicopter parent, but even she was never that bad.

    9. Mallory*

      Worst: the amount of taxes I have to pay in this year after completing my federal return last Sunday. We took out a 401K hardship loan the previous year due to family illness. The tax penalty this year means we have a payment plan of $300/month for this whole year. So there go some things I was planning to buy this year (like a smart phone, finally and an iPad, maybe).

      Best: Getting to drink free wine and eat free food while acting as a staff hostess at a reception for our professional advisory board on Thursday evening. And getting good advice from some of the board members on what to tell my daughter re: what to study in college (“do what you love” vs. “do something practical” or some combination thereof).

      1. Tax accountant*

        ouch… that sucks. we just paid a boatload in taxes as well.

        Best thing? When the clock hit midnight on April 16th and our deadline was over. The world was a beautiful place on April 16th.

        The worst thing? I got laid off a few days later. totes didn’t see that coming.

        1. Mallory*

          Oh, no! That does suck, Tax Accountant! I hope your search for a new job is short and sweet!

        2. Ruffingit*

          So sorry about the layoff, that is always hard. Keeping my fingers crossed for a new job for you ASAP!

    10. always late to the party*

      Best thing? April 16th :) (I’m a…well was? a tax accountant so we were working round the clock for weeks trying to get everything done).

      Worst thing? Getting laid off on April 17th.

      Even worse thing? A FT employee telling me “omg you’re so lucky I’d kill to leave!”

      1. always late to the party*

        Whoops!!! Guess there was a glitch because I couldn’t see my comment that I posted above (I’m also Tax Accountant) and I figured that I just forgot to hit “submit”….and now I see it.

      2. Ruffingit*

        GAH. Insensitive comments like that are horrible. If that person would kill to leave, then perhaps they need to just quit their job. Telling you, a laid off employee, that as though you’ve won the lottery and can now leave your job is really shitty.

  116. Everyday Drive*

    Is it inappropriate to ask for the names and job titles of panel interviewers before the interview? I have a panel interview coming up. When HR emailed me to schedule the interview, he asked me to email him any questions I may have. I emailed back and asked for the names and job titles of the panel members so I can prepare better. HR has not responded to my email and I’m wondering if my request was inappropriate or not. Shall I send a follow-up request? The person in HR I’m communicating with (via email) is also the hiring manager.

    1. Ruffingit*

      I wouldn’t send a follow-up request. If they choose not to reply so be it. I’d let it go unless you have a great reason for needing to know this, which I don’t think you do. Good luck on the interview!

      1. Everyday Drive*

        Thank you Ruffingit! I asked for the names and job titles because I want to remember their names, think of answers to possible questions that relate to their department (like how I can help marketing or finance department, etc), and send personalized Thank You notes after the interview with their names spelled correctly. But you’re right, it’s really not that important and I think I can prepare just the same without that information. Thanks again!

    2. Jennifer*

      It’s entirely possible that they don’t even know yet who the interview panel is going to be.

  117. Jill*

    Eep! I jut created a dilemma for myself, I think. I’m not super satisfied in my current job, but it’s okay for now. I’ve applied to several jobs that I’m a good fit for, though obviously, they may not work out. I’m also considering a part-time MBA as a back-up should I stay at my current job. It’s been a crazy time.

    Somehow today, I was getting coffee with one of our executives to talk about big data (something I wanted to learn more about), and it somehow turned into a career discussion. This executive interviewed me and we’re very similar in personality, so I found myself being more open than I’d like. Just in that I normally wouldn’t have said anything about what I think for my future career. My own manager had never asked me what I want to do long-term, so when asked, I couldn’t lie and say I was totally content.

    This executive has now gone out of how way to put me in touch with career advisors and people locally that might be of help to me. He aske that I keep our company top of mind as I go through the process of figuring out what I want to do.

    Have I totally screwed myself here? I know I should have kept my mouth shut. I never said anything about leaving. It was much more a future discussion. But what if a job offer comes through? Will I have burned bridges? Do I turn down opportunities to preserve the bridge?

    Perhaps I don’t get offered anything and I can use his help to do some research and make some connections. It honestly may not be a bad thing. I just can’t help but feel like I put myself in an unnecessarily tricky situation. I never talk to colleagues about career plans. I don’tknow why I had such a brain fart. Shoot!

    1. Malissa*

      Actually I think you just gained an ally in your company. He just might be the person that gets you a better position internally.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      “have I totally screwed myself here?”

      No. The exact opposite. You totally helped yourself here. Follow up on each one of the names he gave you.

  118. Donnatella Moss*

    I posted two weeks ago about having two opportunities at my company and having a decision to make. The update is that after talking to my supervisor about it and the big boss I made a decision and decided to take the manager position on my current team. From both my supervisor and the big boss I got the feeling that they thought the manager position would be better for me (and would possibly keep me at the company longer), and I think it’s more in line with my goals in the long run. Even if I’m a little terrified and the big boss told me all the things that suck about being a manager when we met (most of which I was already aware of…mostly from reading this site).

  119. Sharm*

    Wondering if I should bother with a job I applied for.

    In a nutshell, the job is in my wheelhouse. It’s several titles below my last one in that industry. It’s truthfully a manager job at an associate title. I know they’re doing it to cheap out on pay, especially since they’re a “cool” organization. They do good work and the job is definitely more creative than I have now. Some of it is a stretch, but I feel like I have a good shot as the big boss and I come from the same industry and have people in common.

    But, I got a weird vibe at the interview. I don’t know if they’d all of a sudden start screaming at people or whatever. I’m sure I was projecting, but there was a weird, tense energy in the room.

    For salary, they have me the range, was is at least a 15% pay cut. I, stupidly said I was okay with the high end of their range. I’m not. I don’t want a pay cut and I don’t want a title cut. The job is really neat, but maybe I should wait. I do have a job for now.

    To save everyone’s time, should I tell them I couldn’t do the salary after all and drop out of the process? I know they always say to wait til you get an offer, but maybe I’m just wasting their time…

    1. Ruffingit*

      I’d seriously ask myself what I want from this job and whether I could get those things elsewhere. You’re looking at the following:

      1. Significant pay cut
      2. Drop in title that is several floors below where you are now
      3. Weird interview vibe

      Honestly, I can’t see why you’d go forward with this. The above are enough red flags that I would remove myself from the process now.

      2. Sharm*

        The only reason is I’m in a place where organizations like this are rare. I’m willing to bet I can get similar experience, but it was the type of organization I’d hoped to work for in the long-term.

        The more I think about it, though, the more uneasy I feel. I just don’t know if I can justify a pay AND title cut without getting anything concrete in return.

        Thanks for the objective insight!

  120. Beth Anne*

    I’m always giving this website to people who are job searching or have job problems and they think I’m nuts! Does this happen to anyone else?

    1. Sharm*

      I do all the time, and now worry I’ve given myself away! But yes, it’s by far the best and most pragmatic job advice site I’ve seen.

      1. Beth Anne*

        Agreed! I took a communications class this semester and in several of the discussions I referred to this site. Like we had one on “office gossip” and then about interviewing. Whether anyone actually came is another story but I needed to give my 2 cents at least :)

    2. Mallory*

      I started wanting to recommend this site to people after reading it for awhile. But I had a dilemma in that my user-name was, to me, waaaay to easily identifiable by anyone who works with me. So I took up Jamie on her offer to come up with a new user name for me during an open thread not too long ago, and now I feel sufficiently cloaked in mystery (or plausible deniability) to feel confident in recommending the site to others. I changed my username because this site is too good not to share.

      1. Mallory*

        It’s kind of funny, though, because even with the new user name, I’m now so identified with my gravatar that I feel (irrationally, to be sure!) that it “looks just like me!!” and that “anyone who sees it will know that it’s me!!” I have to remind myself, that no, it does NOT “look just like me” — it’s a silhouette, for pete’s sake, that nobody would recognize even if I made it from an actual photo of My Own Self.

  121. always late to the party*

    as always..late to the party, so dont know if my comments will even go answered. :-/

    Not to get into long, boring details but I got laid off from a company that has a really really….really bad reputation. I mean google it and you wont’ find any good reviews. I didnt’ know it was this bad when I took it and honestly, at the time the benefits outweighed any possible costs.

    Is this going to look bad on me when I’m looking for a job again? Do employers really place alot of importance on the kind of company you worked for and if it had a bad reputation? I’m a little worried now…

    1. Not So NewReader*

      A good employer will just smile knowingly and move the conversation along to another subject. They already know the story and have seen many, many people go through it.

      1. Ruffingit*

        Agreed. I really wouldn’t worry about it. It’s rough out there in the job jungle and any sane employer is going to understand that sometimes you take the jobs you can get. They will also understand that you are not personally responsible for your company’s bad reputation. Unless you are in fact responsible in which case you have bigger problems :) Seriously though, don’t worry about it. Go forward and show what you know and can accomplish in the jobs you’re interviewing for. Good luck!

    2. Stephanie*

      I worked at a place that has a really bad rep in my field. I agree with the others about not worrying about it.

      That being said, I wouldn’t bash the employer during an interviewer. I did an interview once where the interviewer was like “Oh man, I heard [former workplace] is terrible and employees leave there all the time.” I agreed and then we got sidetracked discussing it. Best just to keep it curt and positive: “Oh well, I learned a lot about teapot safety regulations there and I think that will serve this role well!”

      1. Beth Anne*

        This happenned to my sister. Basically in the next interview she was as nice as should be about the former company and left it at that. The hiring manager then said well I only take what they say and anyone says about that place with a grain of salt. In the end she got the job and might have had to work a little harder to gain trust but now they love her 2 years later :)

    3. always late to the party*

      Thanks guys, these comments are reassuring.

      naw, i was too low on the totem pole to make any difference :) but it was an awesome learning experience, in terms of the kind of work I had to do. I’m still relatively new to this field and this place was offering me more $$ and experience so I took it. I definitely don’t regret taking it, I made a lot of mistakes but I really felt if I was there longer (becuase…a few months is really nothing to master everything) I would have excelled at this job :(

      I never intended to badmouth them, so i’m already thinking of the perfect response that will redirect the focus from the company’s reputation and onto what I’ve learned and have experience with now.

      Ahhh the wonderful world of job hunting…..I never missed you!!!!

  122. Anon for this*

    I work for a very well-known brand supporting (among other things) a tech product we launched a couple years ago. Working the support side, I’ve seen firsthand how flawed this product is. But, honestly, our brand has huge cachet and we sell lots of anything with our logo on it, including the occasional flop that goes quietly into that good night after a few years’ run. It never crossed my mind that we’d pull the plug on this product, in part because so many high-profile folks were associated with it.

    Now a bunch of so far unrefuted claims in the media indicate that the development team is being laid off and production is being phased out. And I’m RELIEVED. I don’t think my job is in imminent jeopardy–it takes plenty of support work to successfully sunset a tech product–but even if it were, I’d be relieved to see that we’re doing the right thing by phasing out this product. I am thrilled to see it go. I’m sorry some of the people associated with it are losing their jobs–there’s some great talent on that team and I know they gave a lot to trying to make this product succeed.

    It’s all weirdly bittersweet. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. I can’t remember failure ever having such visible consequences at my company before.

  123. arjumand*

    I love reading this blog and I hope someone’s still on this thread!

    I’ve been worrying about this all week and I really don’t know what to do. Basically, a job posting just came along, and it’s something that I’ve always wanted (though now that it might actually be within reach, it’s kinda terrifiying), I’m qualified for it, I have the experience, and I’m applying. So far, so good.

    My problem is that one of my colleagues, who I’m really close with, would also love this job, and is as qualified as I am. She has less experience, but only because she’s much younger than me, which is actually a point in her favour. Because of a mandatory vacation at our place of work, I won’t be seeing her in person before the posting expires, so do I tell her about it or not? It’s not a state secret, it was online if you know where to look, and I’m sure it was in the newspapers (it has to be advertised, by law, in my country), though I don’t read them with enough regularity to be 100% sure.
    Aargh! If I tell her, and she applies, I’d really be kicking myself if she got the job and I didn’t. OTOH, maybe she already knows and has applied for it. Or if it comes out at work that I’ve applied, I think she’d be pretty hurt if I didn’t tell her about it too.

    I. Just. Don’t. Know.

    1. Hummingbird*

      Look at it this way – if she already knows about and has applied for it, had she gone out of her way to tell you?

      I know two wrongs don’t make a right, but I would just apply and keep yourself to your own business. If it something that might make you happy because you’ve wanted, then why take a backseat?

      1. Arjumand*

        You’re right – I can’t see her texting me frantically to tell me about this. And her dad, who’s retired now, was connected with this institution so I’m pretty sure he’s told her.
        Even if not, I’m not her mom.
        There. I think. Lol.

        1. Ruffingit*

          You are not required to manage the job seeking efforts of everyone around you who might be a fit for the jobs you come across. It’s enough to manage your own job hunt efforts. If your co-worker would be hurt that you didn’t tell her about the job, something is wrong with HER, not you.

  124. do not pass go*

    I have a weird situation. One of my colleagues made a super racist comment. He didn’t think that it was racist because it was about a country that both of us are originally from.

    The comment was something like (“That person’s actions personifies what’s wrong with that country and the people in it”). I responded pretty calmly and called him out on his broad assumptions but it bothered me that he would say something so horrible so casually.

    I generally like this person and we are seen as friends, because we work closely together. I’m worried that people might think that I hold similarly offensive views by association. Do I say anything?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I have a family member (married into the family) who always puts down his nationality and his family’s country of origin.
      I tried saying something and he said “I am sorry I offended you.” Totally missing the point that he was degrading HIMSELF and his heritage. I just could not get him to understand this. He saw nothing wrong here. He did not see any connection to his low sense of self worth and so on.

      Perhaps your friend is of the same thinking- he just will never understand what you are saying. That means all you can do is cover yourself. If he says something like this in a group- just say something along the lines of “Not all of us feel the same way” or “I’m not into stereotyping” or whatever fits.

      If it happens too often, then you may want to consider being around him less or not doing things in public together.

  125. Worker Bee*

    I just wanted to say thank you to Alison. Due to your awesome advice I went back to my manager after year end reviews, discussing what I could do going forward this year to earn myself a raise. (She had been so happy and praising my work during the review) Instead of giving me a list of things I should work on this year, she said something along those lines: You know I can’t really give you much more advice, you already figured out yourself what you need to work on and those are minor issues. Your first year with us is complete in may. Let me think till then what I can pay you (we have so many compliance and hierarchy issues). So I am getting a raise in may. Thank you Alison!

  126. a.n.o.n.*

    I don’t know if anyone is still reading, but I’ll ask anyway.

    As you may know, in February I turned down a job at another company and have since realized I chose the wrong job. When I emailed the CEO of that company to say I want the job, he said perhaps we would speak in a couple months (that was March so May is two months). Would it be weird/inappropriate/stalkerish to email the CEO of that company just to say “hope you had a nice holiday and hope all is going well for you”? Obviously, the intent behind it is to help keep me in his thoughts and get him thinking about the job again; however, I have no plans to mention anything about the job at all until at least the third week of May.

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