open thread – February 13, 2015

by Alison Green on February 13, 2015

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

{ 1,174 comments }

{ 1,174 comments… read them below }

  1. Ayeaye*

    Just wanted to say thanks for all the suggestions last week. I’ve started recording my days and it’s making me feel a lot better about it all. It’s actually an academic library I work in rather than public, but all comments were really useful, so thanks all.

  2. Hearts On Fire*

    I currently work in marketing. Some of the areas I’m lacking in are digital/web and data analytics. I’m really interested in learning about SAS. Can anyone recommend any good (and inexpensive) resources/books related to SAS? What about other resources related to digital/web/analytics? Thanks for everyone’s thoughts. :)

    1. GOG11*

      I recently had the opportunity to chat with a web developer/IS person who recommended coursera. I’ve enrolled in a course there that starts this summer called Data Visualization. There were a lot of other options, too. I think all of the courses are free.

    2. Iro*

      The thing is, it will be hard to learn SAS without having access to SAS to practice programming. The conundrum of learning to program is that to learn to program you must program.

      SAS licenses are expensive so honestly that is your biggest financial barrier there.

      1. Abhorsen327*

        In order to deal with the financial barrier of using SAS, you might be interested in learning R instead. R is open-source and available for free, and has roughly the same functionality as SAS. The two have pretty different syntax styles, but once you know one it’s fairly quick and easy to learn the other (especially with the help of google).

    3. Iro*

      As for analytics, I’d stick with improving your access and excel abilities. Chandoo.org has some great free excel resources as well as an entire series on “becoming an awesome analyst”

      1. little Cindy Lou who*

        sorry but gotta disagree with Access. Anyone who’s looking for an actual SQL programmer will just roll their eyes at its mention. If you live near an urban area, see if they have a community computer lab where you can get hands on with real programs (usually around the gov buildings with job placement help, etc)

    4. themmases*

      You should look into SAS University Edition, which is free SAS software that you run as a virtual machine and access in your browser. (I’ll post a link in a reply to this comment.) It has definite limitations compared to real SAS (I found libraries harder to set up, and personally I found it slower even though I wasn’t using a wireless connection), but it can get you started learning the language and interacting with the community.

      Other than my class notes– and to be honest I found taking a class to be the best thing– The Little SAS Book is what I have and what I see recommended constantly. I highly recommend getting it in ebook or PDF form so that you can have it open and text search it when you are troubleshooting or trying to figure out how to do something. If you’re planning to use SAS Enterprise, then the SAS for Dummies book is all about that and it seems to be popular with Enterprise users (and unpopular with regular SAS users since the title doesn’t make it obvious that it’s not for them). The Dummies blog and a few other big ones are also aimed mainly at SAS Enterprise users.

      Taking a class will get you access to some practice data prepared by your instructor that would be relevant to someone in your field. If you can’t do that or aren’t sure yet if you want to, I personally like to explore the free public data sets on data.gov.

      Hope this helps!

      1. themmases*

        Here is the main page for information about SAS University Edition:
        http://www.sas.com/en_us/software/university-edition.html

        From the fact sheet near the bottom: “SAS University Edition is designed for anyone wanting easy access to statistical software to perform quantitative analysis in an academic setting. This includes undergraduate
        and graduate students, professors, adult learners, high school students, researchers and postdocs.”

  3. constipated accountant*

    Someone called me about a job I applied to on Wednesday. We set up an interview for Monday, and she gave me the location and time and said she would email me to confirm and give me the exact address. She said she would email me that night. I still haven’t received an email and I don’t have her email address. Should I call her again today to confirm?

    3. Meg Murry*

      Check you spam folder and then call to confirm if its not there. She may have left out a letter in your email address sending it to the wrong person or delegated sending you the address to someone else that didn’t take care of it.

  4. ACA*

    I had a phone interview last Thursday that in retrospect I should have rescheduled, as I was hopped up on cold medicine – which is probably why I didn’t reschedule, because my cognitive thinking skills weren’t all they should have been. I guess I sounded more coherent than I felt, though, since they emailed me on Monday to request an in-person interview! That’s scheduled for next Friday, and I’ll basically be freaking out non-stop until then.

    1. TL -*

      I had to go under for a minor procedure yesterday and I sent out about three emails that were like, “Uh, I can’t make this decision because my judgment is officially impaired until tomorrow. Have forwarded the email to X.”

      Good times.

    2. Sunflower*

      One time i had a phone interview on a random day I had off of work but ended up being sick. Accidentally took cough syrup with codeine and felt legitimately drunk. I was half freaking out, half didn’t care about anything before the interview and it worked to my advantage since I was super relaxed and wasn’t nervous at all. Wouldn’t recommend anyone doing that though.

      1. puddin*

        Similar thing happened to me – last minute in person interview and I was on Serious pain killers at the time. But I did get the job :) Probably for the same reason, super relaxed.

    3. Not Here or There*

      I was out of the office due to pneumonia and ended up getting a job interview that couldn’t be rescheduled. I went and ended up getting the job. Another time, I had had surgery the previous week (outpatient) but was still supposed to be resting and was on pain killers. I conducted several phone interviews that resulted in 3 in-person interviews later on. In fact, back in high school, I always seemed to be sick and on medication whenever I took the SAT (my parents insisted we take it every semester starting our freshman year). The one time I took it my junior year and wasn’t sick, I actually got a lower score. My family teases me that if I were always on sick and on medication, I would already be the CEO of a fortune 500 company.

      1. ExceptionToTheRule*

        I had a phone interview while I was in the hospital after in-patient surgery and hopped up on morphine. I was ultimately offered a job, but it was a red flag to me that they would knowingly interview me in the condition I was in.

  5. Anon for this*

    I’m looking for opinions on threats as a management strategy. A couple of examples:

    – Boss sees spoiled food in office refrigerator and says, “You people are disgusting. Clean out this refrigerator by tomorrow or I will take away the refrigerator.”

    – Boss sees jammed printer and says, “If you people can’t take care of the printer, I will take away the printer and you will have to go to the next floor every time you want to print something.” (Note that in a scenario like this, the threat is to make it more difficult for the employees to do their jobs efficiently.)

    Is this an effective way to change people’s behaviors? Is it a good way of managing people?

    1. fposte*

      Do you really expect anybody here to say “Yes, it’s brilliant” :-)?

      I think it can be legitimate to stop funding a perk if it’s making more trouble than it’s worth (I think a lot of water coolers are asking for this), but threats are just silly.

      1. Anon for this*

        Haha, good point… I mean, I guess I can see how it can scare people into doing what you want them to do, and perhaps there are situations where managers feel it is their best option for taking action. Maybe someone would like to make a case for that.

      2. INTP*

        Our water cooler (at an old job) really did get taken away for that reason!

        My coworkers missed the memo that tap water is potable (I get that it doesn’t always taste the best, but it’s pretty effective at preventing dehydration without making you sick). If we ran out of water refills before the next delivery, people would literally sit there getting dehydrated while complaining that the company was denying them access to drinking water. I almost felt cruel sitting there drinking my water from the sink as though I were eating a feast in front of a starving group of prisoners. Obviously the water wasn’t the only morale problem, but productivity came to a standstill until the next water delivery while everyone sat around dehydrated and cranky feeling that their human rights had been violated. So they got rid of the cooler altogether and installed a filter on the tap instead. No more cold water for us.

    2. Rin*

      They both sound kind of ridiculous, because your co-workers, who may be gross and not great at printer care, are not in kindergarten. As for the first one, we have a fridge clean-out every once in a while when it gets too disgusting or filled, so that could be an alternative. It’s a “we’re tossing everything, so get your stuff out if you want to keep it” type thing. Because there are people who don’t leave bad food and do take care of the printer, and they shouldn’t be penalized.

      1. Jazzy Red*

        When I worked for a former employer, all refrigerators were cleaned out every Friday at 5:00 pm. All opened containers (salad dressing, etc) were thrown out, as well as all left over food. The cleaning crew in my building used to wait by the fridges, and watch the clock go from 4:58 to 4:59 and at 5:00, they would open the doors and start throwing things into the trash. They especially enjoyed throwing out Tupperware and glass containers that people brought from home. It was like watching the walkers invade Terminus.

        1. Adam V*

          Here, salad dressings and condiments are left alone as long as they aren’t expired. Otherwise, if you brought salad every day, it’d be annoying to have to remember every Friday to go grab your salad dressing and then bring it back the following Monday. I think the freezer cleaning only gets rid of expired items as well.

    3. Katie the Fed*

      Well, a bit of a leading question I think since you already know the answer :)

      Definitely not a good strategy, but he does sound frustrated. Have their been warnings that led to this reaction or was this his first discussion?

      Best strategy would be for him to designate a roster of people to look after the fridge and printer – come up with a solution rather than scolding the entire group. These are “tragedy of the commons” type issues – nobody wants to be responsible for the communal areas, so he needs to come up with a way to make people responsible for it.

      1. Anon for this*

        No, there haven’t been many warnings. It’s a fairly new manager, and this seems to be his first reaction to something he doesn’t like. In the fridge incident, it was the first warning since he became the manager (though there were a few warnings several months ago). In the printer incident, it happens occasionally but with different culprits.

        1. Observer*

          If you are going to make a threat, do something that makes some sense. Saying “I’m going to make it harder for you to do your job and then you’ll get penalized for that” Is just silly. Saying “You’ll have to pay for the printer repairs” MIGHT make sense. Of course, in this kind of case, it doesn’t sound like the boss even looked at the cause of the jam. It’s quite likely nothing to do with what the user did.

          2. Mephyle*

            It’s like good vs. bad parenting. In general terms, warning about consequences: good. Threatening to impose punitive measures (that will degrade performance by getting in the way of doing the job): bad.

        2. Adonday Veeah*

          I’m gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that this is his parenting style, and he’s brought it into the office.

    4. GOG11*

      I think this is a terrible management strategy. It doesn’t foster rapport or open communication. Management would seem unapproachable. I will work way harder for someone who inspires and invests in me and this does not do that.

    5. HigherEd Admin*

      I think this is a good way to make people see the Boss as a jerk.

      RE: Scenario 1: What about assigning someone on a rotating basis every week to be responsible for cleaning out the spoiled food in the fridge. The message could be, “if your food is in there on Friday and is not labeled with an expiration date beyond Friday, it will be tossed.” After someone loses a tupperware or after someone is assigned the clean-out task and sees how gross it is, hopefully the problem will be reduced.

      1. Anon for this*

        That’s a good idea, as long as everyone cooperates, but what if a couple of people decide to blow it off when it’s their turn and something gets left in there to rot and the boss takes away the refrigerator?

        Also, what if it does work? If the boss’s threat resulted in employees working out a solution to the issue, does that mean that the threat was an effective way of handling the problem? It seems that most people agree that it’s a crappy way to manage people, but if the boss gets the results he wants with threats, what’s the downside to using this strategy?

        2. Observer*

          Well, the odds of getting consistent results are very, very low. Yes, in scenario one it worked. With a jamming printer, I’m willing to bet it won’t / didn’t. If you haven’t had jams since his threat, it’s probably becuase something else changed. Many printers are sensitive to the paper and toner you use, and sometimes even how you store the paper. Unless the printer is used by ONE person, AND that person has full control over the other factors, this simply cannot work.

          On the other hand, as others have pointed out, when this is a first line of reaction, you shut down all communications and respect. They may FEAR him, but they won’t respect him. That makes it much harder to get really good results inthe long term. Others have noted some aspects of this kind of issue – people don’t come to you with problems that need resolution, they work around you or ignore you when they can, the become clock puchers / watchers rather than trying to just make sure they do what needs to be done, and keep their heads down rather than tackling problems and making suggestions that could have benefits.

          1. Anon for this*

            As lots of commenters have noticed, this was a bit of a leading question — I really dislike this style of management and I think you are totally right about everything you said. The trouble is, how do you convince a manager that this is a poor strategy, especially when he can point to multiple situations where threats worked to scare people into changing their ways? It is hard to convince someone to trade results now for trust/respect/morale/communications in the long run, especially because those things are difficult to quantify or identify a cause. In fact, I suspect that if these things become an issue, they will simply be attributed to employees’ attitudes, and there will be more threats (If communications don’t improve, I’ll make you turn in notes on every conversation you have! If productivity doesn’t improve, I’ll take away the coffee maker! The beatings will continue until morale improves!), and/or they will be used to give employees bad reviews and deny raises.

      2. Marcy*

        My last job did this. I blew off my week because I didn’t use the kitchen at all and it was really disgusting. It wasn’t fair to require people who don’t use it to clean up after the inconsiderate people who let their food splatter all over the microwave and leave their stuff to rot in the refrigerator. Everyone knew who the disgusting people were- that should have been addressed with them instead of making those of us who didn’t even use it have to clean up behind them. That same boss also tried to make me babysit my coworker’s kids when she brought them into the office so I couldn’t really expect a common sense approach from her.

    6. Mallory Janis Ian*

      Not a good way of managing people, but it did kind of make me laugh, because it reminded me of when I was a kid and my grandpa would make threats like,

      – “If you kids don’t quit using so much toilet paper, I’m going to lay the Sears and Roebuck catalog on the back of the toilet and see how you like using that for toilet paper!”

      or (again with the toilet paper):

      – “If you kids don’t quit using so much toilet paper, I’m going to lay the roll on the back of the couch behind me, and when you ask me for some, I’m going to dole out one square!”

      1. NJ Anon*

        What is it with grandparents and toilet paper? My grandmother always said you can’t have too much money or toilet paper!

        2. Myrin*

          I was about to ask the same thing since my grandpa has always been concerned about my toilet paper use as well!

        3. Mallory Janis Ian*

          Well, good to know that my grandparents weren’t just a particular brand of crazy! Sounds like a generational toilet paper fixation.

        5. Artemesia*

          My grandfather has been dead for 55 years but I still remember what a jerk he was and it is symbolized by his whining that our family of four (including a woman and a girl) used too much toilet paper when we visited. My mother’s response was to tell us we could only use two squares at a time. I wish she had done what she threatened my father she would do ie. give him a 6 pack for Christmas.

      2. Mallory Janis Ian*

        And, oh yeah — at the time he was saying this, Sears hadn’t been “Sears and Roebuck” for god-knows how long!

    7. Hlyssande*

      We have a policy that the fridge gets cleaned out every Friday afternoon and whatever is still there gets thrown out, even if it appears to be a new bottle of dressing/condiment/whatever and isn’t expired. No exceptions.

      1. Anx*

        Do you think this is a good policy? And does it apply to the fridge?

        Perhaps it’s because I have a difficult time sticking to a lunch routine and can’t afford to buy food on some days, but whenever I’ve had access to a work fridge I’ve tried to leave a few cheese sticks or something at work in case of emergency. If someone doesn’t work on Fridays, can they call in and make sure someone puts an item aside and then returns it after the cleaning?

        1. Judy*

          I prefer the cleaning it out except for things that (1) have a person’s name on it and (2) have an expiration date showing it is still good. So your name on a pre-packaged thing is ok. Your name and a date on your tupperware is OK. If it’s staying overnight, it needs a date on it.

          An old office did major cleanups on the last (working) Friday in a month at 3pm, 2 people assigned monthly. (Specified working because of winter breaks, who wants to come back to a stinky fridge on Jan 2?) I was wondering here about that, there was an October dated 1/2 gallon of milk in the fridge when I left for winter break.

        2. Gwen*

          Places I’ve worked have been the same as Judy describes; usually someone sends out an email saying “At X date, we’ll be cleaning out the fridge, anything that doesn’t have a name and date will be tossed, no exceptions.” Some people would set out tupperware/glassware that was unlabeled and give people 24 hours to claim it before it’s tossed, some were more hardcore.

        3. Hlyssande*

          I think it works fairly well for our large office – that policy was put into place when we moved here and actually started having a kitchenette for the first time, so it wasn’t like the policy changed at some point.

          And yes, a few people have bemoaned the issue, but it was more in a ‘geez, I forgot. Well, my loss’ sort of way.

        4. Bea W*

          Telling people a schedule of when a cleaning will occur and the consequences of not removing their food is not the same as belittling and threatening them with “You people are disgusting. Clean out this refrigerator by tomorrow or I will take away the refrigerator.” It’s reasonable to toss out leftovers and unclaimed items when cleaning a refrigerator, and it is reasonable to warn people before hand when cleaning will happen.

    8. HR Manager*

      Maybe not the first method I would choose, but clearly there is a level of frustration there, and I can’t say the boss is wrong for feeling like spoiled food and messy printer areas are a problem. If employees are hearing this and the only response is “the boss is a jerk” rather than think “maybe I could not leave my spoiled food in the fridge”, then employees are equally wrong.

      1. Anna*

        If you can’t communicate well that something is not working and your first approach is threats, there is no “equally wrong”. The problem may be there’s spoiled food in the fridge, but the solution to this sort of management isn’t “just don’t leave spoiled food in the fridge” since the approach won’t change no matter what the problem is. You may need to address the spoiled food issue, but that’s not really the main issue in this question.

      2. Kyrielle*

        Let’s say you have 25 employees sharing the fridge. One left something spoiled and gross in it.

        How are the other 24 employees supposed to feel when the boss says it must never happen again and must be dealt with, or the fridge goes away? Now they have to worry about who left it – what if thy do it again – should we toss others’ food so we can keep the fridge, but then how do we know if something (not with a date) is spoiled, and who’s responsible for policing the food of others anyway….

        “I’ll get rid of the refrigerator” is an over-the-top threat, and one that can majorly impact employees’ routines and food. And it’s in response to a single data point, which by definition, the vast majority of the employees aren’t responsible for. If the boss wants them to step up and take care of each others’ food, he should assign the duty to someone or set up a rotation.

        (And I utterly sympathize with him and all the other employees. We have an office fridge, and for a long time no one person was responsible for it, and on occasion there were bad moments…though nothing spoiled and open, at least. The exploded soda was particularly aggravating, tho.)

    9. Elizabeth West*

      No.

      At one job, the boss used to routinely threaten us that we would all be canned if we didn’t reach fund-raising goals. All that tactic did was make people jumpy and snarly. It didn’t help us work as a team and it made him look like a giant asshole.

      And as every small child knows, if you threaten but then don’t follow through, the threats become meaningless.

    10. Celeste*

      These kind of threats just make it clear that Boss doesn’t have much in his/her management toolbox. What is so hard about making an assignment to a person? It’s what a manager does.

    11. voluptuousfire*

      Frustrated yes. Viable, no.

      Any employer that thinks the best way to remedy something as minor as a printer jam is by taking away the printer–essentially making their employees jobs harder, lowering morale and losing what adds up to hours each year of lost productivity is shortsighted.

      Every job I’ve ever had had a notice on the fridge that said on Friday (or every other Friday) whatever that was in the fridge and that wasn’t labeled with someone’s name or communal (milk for coffee, for example) would be tossed. Why not institute that sort of regimen?

    12. Ruth (UK)*

      Seems a little drastic and likely to make people simply think the manager is a jerk (as other people have commented). It’s possible to take action without it being an extreme threat (especially a threat as extreme as your examples which the staff may question whether he’s even likely to carry it out.) The crazy threat approach generally makes things improve for a very short period of time then revert back.

      It’s better to introduce a less extreme policy (that is actually possible to enforce) and then stick to it.

      My office requires we label anything we put in the fridge with our name and the date (post-its are readily available to do this) and we throw things out every Friday if it’s unlabelled or been there longer than a week. Obviously it’s possible to re-post-it and change the date, but at least this stops things being long forgotten.

      I can’t possibly imagine what is being done to the printer to make the boss make this kind of threat? Not restocking paper? Kicking it?

      But saying things like ‘you people are disgusting’ to his/her staff isn’t very appropriate.

    13. INTP*

      These sound like empty threats of measures that would accomplish nothing except revenge against his own employees, and that’s silly and ineffective.

      I do think, though, that sometimes with “tragedy of the commons” situations, some strictness is necessary. In this example, it would be “Anything not removed from the fridge by 4pm on Fridays will be thrown away,” and then follow up on it. If the sink piles up with disgusting dishes, say that you’ll throw away anything left after the end of the workday and do it. Those might sound threat-ish but the difference is that you’ll actually follow through, you’re only punishing people who don’t clean up after themselves, and the people who do will actually appreciate it because they get a clean sink, fridge, etc. (For the printer, I’d just suggest making sure everyone knows how to properly load the paper etc. Most people don’t mean to cause a paper jam.)

      1. Observer*

        (For the printer, I’d just suggest making sure everyone knows how to properly load the paper etc. Most people don’t mean to cause a paper jam.)

        And make sure that you are using the right kind of paper and toner (eg some non-manufacturer toner can cause seriousl problems), and make sure the the paper is properly stored. In some cases you may need to restrict paper / toner changes to a specific individual or two, if the machine is finicy enough. (We had that with one older copier.)

    14. Golden Yeti*

      I agree, it’s not the best route to go. Even if it gets results, it’s not going to build a team or garner respect. It’s not going to make people want to stay and work with this manager.

      This week, I witnessed a manager more or less verbally abusing/threatening the delivery guy/company both in person and over the phone. I am half expecting the Very Important Packages to arrive at the destination broken.

      You can’t demand professionalism of others if you are unwilling to offer it yourself.

      2. catsAreCool*

        Dave Barry once said something like “If someone’s nice to you but rude to the waitress, they’re not a nice person.”

        He didn’t mention it, but it’s also pretty stupid to be obnoxious to people who you need something from. And really, what’s the point in being rude to anyone unless they’ve been rude first?

        I was brought up to be nice to people because it was the right thing to do, and I never really thought about it as something that was actually an advantage in life. It surprised me when I started realizing how a certain amount of nice (not a jerk to co-workers, helpful, sharing useful work information) can actually be an advantage at work. If you’re nice to people, most of them will be nice back. Yes, there are going to be a few jerks who may think that niceness is weakness, but everyone hates those jerks.

    15. Bea W*

      No and no. For the record, it’s not really an effective parenting strategy either.

      I’m a little surprised this even has to be asked, but then…*shrug*

    16. Panda Bandit*

      It sounds like something an angry parent would say to a small child. People shouldn’t be leaving stuff in the fridge but your boss needs a better policy and better wording than this.

  6. Meg Murry*

    I’m starting a new job in a few weeks, and one of the things I’m excited about is starting over with a fresh, clean email inbox, calendar and documents folder.

    I’ve read GTD in the past and implemented some of the ideas for my email and workflow, but does anyone have any other good suggestions on what to read or what processes to implement? Anything easy but powerful like Alison’s suggestion a week or 2 ago for a “waiting on” folder? Or any other good suggestions for how to hit the ground running in a new position where project management will be a big part of it?

    1. fposte*

      Definitely interested in this as well–I’m trying to turn over a new email leaf. Are there guidelines or templates or anything?

      1. Meg Murry*

        I’m hoping to implement the 0 inbox strategy, where the only messages in the inbox are the ones that I still need to take action on, and the waiting on (with date flags) strategy for items I am waiting on a response from. I also am a big user of filters/rules to direct mailing lists, and I only use work email for work and keep my personal email separate. But I’m hoping for advise on how to take it to the next level, or how to keep it up during times of chaos – books, blog posts, best practices, whatever.

      2. Victoria, Please*

        I’ve discovered a fabulous resource… “Seven sane and sensible email strategies.” Google “emphasis on excellence” and dig around.

    2. Damaska*

      I use Excel for everything. Spreadsheets to keep track of due dates, to build project plans, to do basic math… everything. :)

      A daily to-do list is a good idea, but I’ve found that I only actually update a maximum of two things regularly, so I have to be selective about which ones. I have a general deadlines spreadsheet, and another updates sheet that I send to my manager weekly. Those two are essential and useful, so the daily list fell off. So I adapt the other two to have what I need from a daily list.

    3. squids*

      Wait for a few weeks so you can get an idea of the scope of the work, then set up a filing system that makes sense for you and doesn’t have too many categories. Set it up based on your job functions or projects, not on subjects, dates, or names of people. You’ll use the big categories in conjunction with search in order to find older emails, but it shouldn’t take more than a second to figure out where to file them.

      Use the same categories (with same names or codes) for filing your electronic records, and your paper records, and then you’ll be able to find the right stuff from each of those formats easily.

      It sounds basic but I have seen so many bizarre & broken personal filing systems over the years.

      1. BritCred*

        Yep – I could find things in 5 minutes when others took hours because of this and hardly ever missed anything when it came in.

        Each client or major client group had their own folder, a office related folder, a finance company related one and a “waiting for follow up” one…. oh, and the random one for stuff that doesn’t fit anywhere else!

        I won’t say what I said to the Temp when she said “I deleted stuff once I replied to it….” or how big the bite in my tongue was…. ;)

        One thing I used to do just about daily? Empty my sent box of stuff I’d sent into the client folders. As I went through if I’d “promised” anything to someone (“I’ll follow up with X…”) and not done it I’d most likely remember and be able to do it quickly.

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      I make three main folders under my inbox: General, Personal, Work. As I figure out what kinds of emails come in, I make subfolders under each of those, and everything that comes in (or goes out) gets put in an appropriate folder or subfolder. I have a folder for each project in my work folder (and actually move them from folders for NotStarted, WorkingOn, and Finished).

      Since things will need to be archived (I save all emails), I make archive folders called General-2015, Personal-2015, and Work-2015, and after they are 2 or 3 weeks old, they get moved to the archive folders.

      Right now, I have archive folders for each year and main section since I started this job. If I need to find something, I can search all emails. But old stuff doesn’t fill up my available mailbox. And if/when I leave this job, it should be easy for someone else to find information on work I was doing.

      I’ve seen others make folders for emails with various people, but for me, the projects are a better break-down.

  7. saro*

    Any fellow small business owners or marketing people want to give me pointers on how to market my business without being a jerk? I have a FB page, a twitter account and website. i would like to provide useful information and get new business, of course. But I figure the AAM community has information I don’t know. I’m new to all of this.

    1. kristinyc*

      I would recommend creating really useful content that would be relevant to your customers. There’s a great book by Jay Baer called “Youtility” that talks about marketing your brand by being extremely useful to your customers so they see you as a valuable, expert resource (rather than just shouting “BUY MY PRODUCTS!!” all the time). Case in point – this site! Alison has done such an amazing job of creating useful content, when it comes time for her to market her ebooks or resume review services, it’s probably an incredibly easy sell.

      1. Hearts On Fire*

        Just wanted to say that Jay is awesome. I had the opportunity to hear him speak at a conference last year and he was fantastic. Plus, he lives now lives in my awesome college town (Bloomington, Indiana). :)

        2. saro*

          I’ll look this up, thank you. That sounds more like something I can do rather than sell sell sell all the time.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      Make sure you are involved with your local chambers of commerce or tech council or whatever is appropriate for your field. Being an active member gets you a lot of exposure, especially if you can provide in kind services.

      2. Saro*

        I’ll look into this – I have some reservations about this due to potential politics of the chambers of commerce here. That said, I haven’t even tried it yet so my anti-social nature may just be looking for excuses. ;-)

    3. Sunflower*

      I would suggest including unrelated, non-business content sometimes. I used to work somewhere that would post something funny every Friday.

      I would also suggest using FB and twitter searches to target your audience. For example, let’s say you sell dishwashers. Search ‘broken dishwasher’ on twitter and you’re sure to get a slew of people who’s crap dishwasher is finishing and is looking for a new one. A quick, non-cheesy reply might generate some stuff.

      1. Saro*

        I’ll try to think of how I can use this. My target clients are other businesses so I don’t know how much FB would help. Twitter seems to raise my general ‘she knows the business and is here’ reputation but I haven’t had good luck with FB just yet.

    4. HeyNonnyNonny*

      Not knowing what your business is, I would recommend looking at BarkBox’s email list/content. They provide lots of blog posts and content that generally relates to their product (cute dogs pics) and also balance that with actual marketing about upcoming items, ordering more items, and item reviews. Just one example I can think of that I find really ‘works’ for me.

    5. Labratnomore*

      It really depends on the type of business. If you are trying to market to your local community, some sort of community involvement can be great. Are there local clubs or school you could sponsor or help with a fund raising campaign?

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        I’d like to put a +1 here.

        I can speak more from the customer perspective than the business one, but, for me, it really depends on the business.

        For example, if I like a restaurant, a few Facebook and Twitter stickers on the menu or a business card will help me to like/follow the place, and then you can post helpful things like pictures of yummy specials or assurances that you are, in fact, open on ________ holiday. You’re far more likely to get my repeat business that way.

        Random SaaS business I’ve never heard of—believe it or not, I’ve clicked on Googled based on Twitter ads. The key here is it has to be a company I’d never heard of before. If it’s Comcast posting a Twitter ad, I’ll ignore that and be annoyed by it.

        If you run an independent movie theater, printed flyers of upcoming shows or film festivals are helpful if coffee shops will host them for you.

        It really depends what kind of business you run…

      2. Saro*

        Thanks! I do volunteer with a non-profit – but I don’t think that many people know about it. That’s the part that makes me feel like a jerk. I guess I should get over it though.

    6. OriginalEmma*

      Have a functional, customer-friendly website. Make it easy for me to access your service or get to your store.

      For example, put hours of operation and contact info in clickable (or copy-paste-able) format in an obvious area…whether at the bottom or top of the page, on its own “Contact Us” or “About” tab/page, or at the top of a left-sided column. Have the address open up into a Google Map or MapQuest. Link your e-mail so if I click o it, I can open it up in MS Outlook or what-have-you. There are more things, I’m sure, but these immediately come to mind.

      See also: The Oatmeal’s What I Want from a Restaurant Website, which humorously and concisely breaks down the issue.

      Nothing turns me off more as a customer than a business website with fluffy stuff like “How I Came An Underwater Basket Weaver” but no functionality.

      1. Saro*

        Thank you. I’m going to ask a trusted friend to review my current website to see if she finds it functional.

    7. puddin*

      Congrats on your business venture! Sounds like it is a new undertaking for you – I wish you much success and hope you enjoy being your own boss!

      Here is an idea that I passed along to a local kitchen renovation company…apply as you can to your business. I truncated the sales plan as much as I could and have it still make sense. It also involves supplier involvement, business partners like loan companies, HOAs…etc.

      The idea is a sort of referral process. Your current customers are a very valuable source of sales leads and marketing information. I think this method is better than the ‘get $5 for every referral you send me’ method, which no one really does, the referrals are usually not quality, no one don’t follow through, or people are annoyed that their friend ‘put them on a list’.

      When a project is completed, the renovator hosts a party in the customers brand new fancy kitchen. The customer can invite up to X number of people and you, as the business owner invite the relevant people from your business and ask to invite ONE person/couple who is currently considering your services. You sponsor a nice spread – whatever your budget can reasonably handle as part of your sales and marketing expenses.* This is now your opportunity to collect names and contact info from the customer’s friends, talk to them about your services, show your portfolio…use this as a consulting introduction. Do not forget that the customer and his/her kitchen is the star so be sure to celebrate them with bravos and congratulations. Follow up with your collected names a week later, ask if they would like to follow you on FB, your newsletter, whatever keeps you in constant contact. Also offer to set up a no-cost consulting appt at their home. Then follow up with them via these media sources. If they say they are not ready now, it is ok to ask when they will be and can you call back at that time. [then put a tickler on your CRM or calendar.] Show some charisma and charm while contacting too, don’t ‘sell’ just offer.

      If you want to be really super duper high speed, keep a simple database of your clients and referrals. Keep some details about their contact preferences, birth date, anniversary, kid’s b-days, how long they have owned their home, what materials/styles/colors they prefer. Then use this info to say hi…things like “saw this kitchen in green and orange and thought of you” send pic with link. Alternatively tag them in an instagram post of the image (with permission of course). Even if the intended customer does not see it, others that follow you will and will notice that you are looking out for your customers.

      This whole process is a pinpointed sales and marketing technique and is very close to roof top marketing. I think it is a very effective way to spend marketing money on the right people as your customers’ friends are most likely in the same demographic/financial boat as your customer. This is very similar to the ‘house party’ sales techniques used by Tupperware, Silpada, Tastefully Simple, and all that jazz. If you have a service, it is a great way to expose people to you and your offerings. This method is less successful if you are promoting a product or goods these days because of internet competition and commoditization.

      *The business thought the cost spent on the party should scale with the cost of the project. I advised against this, as the friends will compare whose party was better and the business will look like the money grubbing bad guy in that scenario.

      1. Saro*

        Thanks, let me think this through and see how I can apply it to my business. I finally have some help so I can focus on other things. I offer consulting services to international businesses – I live/work overseas in a developing country.

  8. Sunflower*

    I’m debating going from normal, “permanent”(because nothing ever is) work to something that allows for more spontaneity and flexibility. I’ve always dreamed of living in a different place every 6 months(I want to live both in and outside of the US) and now might be the time to do that(fresh in my career, no commencements, still have mom and dad to rescue me if need be, etc)

    Some people mentioned travel work but I work in project management/marketing/event planning and I’m not sure how many opportunities exist for that.
    I’m debating trying to find short contract freelance gigs or find something that is purely work from home(could be freelance) and can be free to do stuff in between. Is this stuff possible? Anyone know if any blogs or experience of people who did this?

    Also since my main goal of this would be to travel, I’d be okay doing less than desirable work. Some people mentioned teaching English? I’d be open to going anywhere that is pretty developed/urbanized so anyone know of relatively easy gigs to get? Are service jobs/work visas for them difficult to get in other countries?

    Really any advice for this confused soul would be great!

    *Note I had posted something similar to this in the weekend thread and realized it fits better for Friday so if it sounds familiar that’s why!

    1. matcha123*

      I can’t give you much advice on your dream, but I will say that if you were looking to live in Japan or South Korea and work from an apartment, it would be incredibly difficult and I wouldn’t recommend doing it on a tourist visa.
      English teaching positions in both of those countries (and China/Taiwan/Hong Kong, I assume) have a year-long contract, which of course you could ditch after a few months, but it’s something a lot of people do, and I wouldn’t recommend it unless the place was very bad.

      Projects are hard to get locally even for people that live here. (Japan in my case)

      People who know more about the situation in Central/South America, Europe, Africa, Oceania might have more and better information.

    3. Kflemin3*

      Teaching English would probably be your best bet. As an American working in Belgium I think it would be very difficult to find service jobs here. The visa situation makes it really tricky, and most tourist visas in Europe prevent you from working during your stay. This is really a country by country thing, so it can vary.

      That said, I’ve heard Australia has a programme where you can apply for a 12-month work visa if you’re under 30, which, apparently, gives you the same right to work as citizens. May be worth googling. Good luck!

      1. voluptuousfire*

        ^ I looked at something similar myself when I was in my mid twenties. I think there was an agency that specialized in those visas but it was fairly expensive ($1k-1.5k) and back when I just did not have that kind of $.

      3. College Career Counselor*

        Teaching english is one possibility, but it’s more likely in eastern Europe, South America and Asia (than say western europe, where you’re more likely to have to have CELTA or other certification). Some programs (language corps) offer training and certification and for their flagship destinations/programs will offer guaranteed paid placement. Somewhat expensive on the starting end.

        @kfleming–I think BUNAC is the program you’re thinking of–working holidays in Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. (and other places, depending on your country of origin).

        @Sunflower–you may want to look at transitionsabroad for some additional possibilities/articles/options on being abroad. also, daveseslcafe and esljobs.com for additional esl stuff.

    4. ZSD*

      Personally, I’m opposed to people becoming English teachers (or other kinds of teachers) for reasons other than that they want to be teachers. I tried teaching ESL one summer, and it’s *hard*. Further, the students are paying you (or the school) because they want to learn English, and I think that people who make the commitment to teach them have the obligation to actually take the job seriously and know something about language pedagogy going in.
      Thus, Sunflower, while I think it would be awesome to have a job that lets you travel a lot, I would discourage you from doing it as an English teacher unless you know how to teach and care enough to do it well. (And if both those things describe you, then great!)

    5. Labratnomore*

      Look for some type of consulting job in your field. I know someone who loves to travel. When she got downsized from her job she took a year to travel the world, then found a job that consults with foreign countries on US regulations in her field. She now works in India and has a 6 week on, 2 week off schedule. Since she has no family she usually uses the 2 weeks to travel in Asia, rather than come home to the US. The company pays for travel to and from India every work period, and I am sure they are glad to pay for a more local plane ticket rather than one back to the US. If you look you never know what lucky break you might find out there. Good luck!

    6. Cee*

      Something I”ve been doing (and this may take you a while, as it’s been taking *me* a while), is to seek out opportunities at distributed companies. Basically, a distributed company is one where there is no central office, and everyone at the company works from home, or wherever they want. Google “distributed companies” with the quotes around it to find some blog posts with lists of companies that operate this way.

      1. Sunflower*

        This is super helpful(even if it takes a while). I’ve heard of these types of jobs but wasn’t really sure how to find them since I didn’t know distributed company was the term. Thanks!

    7. INTP*

      I don’t know if it’s a possibility in your industry but my ex would work contract jobs for a few months a year and travel the rest of it. The contract work paid well enough to cover plenty of travel with a frugal lifestyle. If a work-from-home opportunity came in while he was traveling, he’d set up somewhere cheap and work for awhile.

      I’ve taught English and found it very draining. The positions are also usually full-time. Unless you like the work or really want to live in one specific country for a full year, I would recommend not doing it just as a way to travel. It’s tough to get decently paid work in Europe as a US citizen because there are native English speaking EU citizens. The better pay will be in Asia (and the Middle East, but you need a master’s degree usually).

      1. Sunflower*

        I’m leaning towards what your ex did. What kind of work did he do? There are freelance opportunities in my field but I’ve never freelanced before so therefore I am a little worried about how often they come up.

        1. INTP*

          He was in software development (and when in the US, pretty much only worked in the bay area because of the higher pay rates).

    8. NatalieR*

      Some professional organizations or other groups hire planners solely to scope out new locations for their conferences. Basically, you travel to different resort/conference towns to meet with conference centers, the local Convention and Visitors’ Bureau, attractions, etc. and find places that are a good match to the group. Then (I think) you travel back to make the arrangements and eventually see the conference through.

      I have NO idea how to find a job like this, but I know they exist. Had I heard of that when I was younger and single (and mortgage-less), I would have been all over that.

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        I’ve never heard of event planners hiring people to do the scouting… most of the ones I know do the site inspection themselves. Usually there are at least two people who go (or more) and they are contracted to do the whole job. One of them is there from the Services side and their job is to negotiate the contracts, find local suppliers for things like ground transportation, check into what activities there are to do (how far away they are from the venue, for example). The other person is there to check things from a technical standpoint: is the ballroom large enough for the attendees and whatever staging may be required, are there things about the room that need to be taken into account (big low-hanging chandeliers as an example).

        This is usually done months ahead of when the actual conference is going to start and, depending on the job, from what I understand it is part of the process that determines the price. I mean, the client has a budget of $X for their conference and they want it to be in Y location (or occasionally multiple locations are suggested). The event planners may visit several hotels/resorts in Y location and come back with a list of suggestions and their recommendation based on price, location, availability for the client to decide upon. Sometimes, the client stipulates that they want to go to a certain venue and then it’s up to the event planners to make it work.

    9. Traveler*

      There is an entire industry built up around this, and tons of people who blog about it. I would start with Nomadic Matt if traveling to teach English is something you want to do – he has a book on teaching English around the world. Even if you don’t like him (or want to be a travel blogger which is his niche, its a good starting point). Also Pat Flynn has a podcast where he features people who are starting their own businesses and/or finding ways to make money that still allow for a flexible schedule/passive income. He is the one sane guy in a sea of snake oil peddlers.

  9. HigherEd Admin*

    Just a vent today: I am in the middle of an interview process that is a little frustrating. During the phone interview, my interviewer was more interested in telling me about himself and his career rather than learning about my qualifications for the roles. At one point, I had a question about the position and he shut me down with, “I have lots of things to ask you, so I don’t have time for questions.” Wow. I was then asked to write a short essay about a topic on which I have no training or information (and that’s not related to the job). When I asked if this was to be a part of the job, he told me it was just to get a feel for my writing style. Why not ask me to submit a writing sample then? Wouldn’t a better indicator of my writing style be when I’m writing about something on which I’m knowledgeable?

    I started reading reviews on Glassdoor about this company, and they have me a bit nervous. There are common complaints about below-market pay and poor middle management. Suggestions on how I address these topics in my next round interview?

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      Avoid the next round interview. That doesn’t sound like someone you’d want to work for. I would know, I worked for a guy like that.

      1. The Cosmic Avenger*

        Either that or look at it as an interview training exercise, not a real interview, because do you really want to work for someone like that? Besides, it might be fun to get an offer just so you can say “No thanks, you’re…kind of a wack-job.”

    2. Sunflower*

      Was it HR or the hiring manager that interviewed you? If it’s HR, I wouldn’t let it weight down big on me but you could find a way to frame your concerns in another way like ‘how open is communication here? Do you welcome questions or is it more of a figure it out as you go’. If it’s the hiring manager, I’m not even sure how you could address it since he doesn’t have time for questions! I’m not sure I could work with someone who uttered “I have lots of things to ask you, so I don’t have time for questions.” unless it was phrased in a ‘sorry I’m kind of in a rush but there will be plenty of time for questions later I promise!’

      1. HigherEd Admin*

        I am not sure if it was the Hiring Manager, but it’s definitely someone within the department in which this role sits. I (strangely) have the HR screen next week.

    3. fposte*

      While it sounds generally pretty screwed up, I actually get the writing thing (if I understand the request correctly); they want to make sure it’s what you sound like unaided, and they want it to be on the same topic as other applicants so they can compare.

      1. HigherEd Admin*

        I see that, and would agree if the assignment was related to the job in any way. Let’s say this is a teapot designer job. Give me a prompt that relates (even vaguely!) to teapot design. Instead, the prompt had to do with say, mushroom cultivation. I just don’t know how to write clearly about mushroom cultivation when I don’t even know the lingo used to describe mushrooms or cultivating!

        1. fposte*

          I’d be tempted just to make stuff up. “It’s important in cultivating mushrooms to provide them with sufficient high-quality alcohol. Many fine strains of fungi have been lost to cheap malt liquor.”

        2. Colette*

          There are two advantages to having an unrelated topic – first of all, if some of the applicants are new grads or are coming from different fields, they won’t have the in-depth teapot knowledge of someone in that field, and secondly, it avoids people complaining that they did work for free.

          1. HigherEd Admin*

            Sure, totally can see that. In that case, I guess I’d rather the topic be something universally understood like, “write a blog entry on the benefits of exercise.”

    4. HR Manager*

      The interviewer sounds more problematic than the glassdoor reviews. Take what you read on glassdoor with a grain of salt, as the most vocal on glassdoor are often those who are fired up and have something very negative to say and so the responses can be skewed.

      With that being said, if you still want a next interview I would ask “I found a few reviews on glassdoor that have pointed to problems with xxxx.” How would you respond to those concerns? I wouldn’t bring up the pay issue — I have never found any company (ever) where employees feel “Yep, I’m paid exactly what I am worth or more.” Pay is one of those survey items on company satisfaction that never, ever have a strong score, and is virtually meaningless.

      1. HigherEd Admin*

        Thanks! That’s a great way to phrase it. (And agreed about the pay issue — I would never bring that up in the interview; it’s just something to keep in the back of my mind if I get to the offer stage.)

    5. hnl123*

      I had that happen on my most recent interview. It was SO short, he seemed indifferent and talked about himself mostly. I was sure I bombed the interview.
      Turns out I got the job, and turns out he’s a Great Boss, totally normal and reasonable.
      Maybe he’s bad at interviewing…?
      And I always take Glassdoor with a grain of salt.

  10. Katie the Fed*

    Anyone have any tips for getting through the work day when you have a persistent, low-level cold? I swear, everyone’s been sick. I’m so tired and I just want to sleep constantly this week. How do I get my energy up?

    1. Helen*

      Cayenne pepper helps me when I have a cold. Also there’s a tea called Tulsi that makes me feel better when I feel under the weather.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Anything spicy tends to boost the immune system. Cinnamon counts here.
        There are also herbal teas that might be helpful.

    2. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

      It’s just a band-aid, but I find that temporarily upping my caffeine intake (via green tea) is helpful

      1. Katie the Fed*

        ooh I have green tea here today. I’ll make some – I think I’m also dehydrated.

        I am so sick of winter!

        2. Tris Prior*

          Lots of water, too. I have a hard time getting just plain water down when it’s cold out; I drink lots of hot coffee and tea, which can be dehydrating and makes me feel worse and unable to think clearly.

          1. Katie the Fed*

            I think that might be it – I can tell I’m dehydrated, but I can’t seem to drink enough :(

        3. Not So NewReader*

          If you think you are dehydrated, then sipping plain water all day will be helpful, of course. But cold water can help with organ function. The way that plays out for me is I down a big glass of cold water and a few hours later I feel more energy.

          1. Katie the Fed*

            That’s interesting – in China they think it’s better to drink hot water for health. But I’m not Chinese so I’m cool with cold water.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Which might actually work for them. I have a theory that different peoples in different regions need different things. (Let’s see how many times I can use the word different in a sentence. ugh.) But if you start thinking about climate, terrain, indigenous vegetables/meats that are unique to an area, then it starts to make a little more sense. It could be people located in China do need hot water for health.

              I have been seeing a lot of comments about people with Northern European ancestry (which describes me) and their unique needs. It seems to mesh well with what I am experiencing in my own health.
              What we don’t know about regional needs is massive.

    3. Rebecca*

      I take pseudoephedrine. A lot of it, washed down with Diet Mountain Dew. I’m not joking. When I get a cold, and thankfully it’s maybe once a year or every two years, that’s the only thing that works for me. The fake stuff you can buy OTC doesn’t help, Dayquil makes me sleepy, and while my cold still lasts as long as normal, at least I don’t suffer as much during the work day.

      1. Rat Racer*

        Oof – that sounds like a cruel thing to do to your body – although if it doesn’t rebound and your system can handle it, more power to you!

        Katie – can you work from home? I worked from home while fighting the flu and something about being in my PJs with tea and coffee made it more bearable. Cancelled my business trip to Dallas though – no WAY was I getting on a plane!

        1. Katie the Fed*

          No, definitely can’t work from home :(

          I took Wednesday off and just laid around the house like a sloth, but I didn’t feel sick enough to actually stay out much more

        1. Erin*

          That’s my go to for colds as well. I also drink a lot of fruit juice, which I normally avoid when I’m not sick.

      3. YourCdnFriend*

        Pseudoephedrine is probably the best decongestant. But, some people (me and my whole fam) have REALLY strong reactions. I once had to call my partner to take me home and tell my boss I was leaving because I was stoned out of my mind (on a half dose, daytime dose) and it wasn’t a fun stoned.

        1. Katie the Fed*

          I’m impressed that you guys can take pseudoephedrine – I feel like I’m tripping balls on that stuff!

      4. SickRecentGrad*

        Wow, interesting, I’m on DayQuil right now and I keep feeling alternately super-wired-awake and then suddenly sleepy. The coffee isn’t helping to regulate my energy either haha. But then I’m kind of like this even when not sick. DayQuil didn’t used to have a decongestant, but they’ve reformulated it and it has a decongestant now. I actually preferred it with no decongestant because I don’t get congested usually and now my nose runs more.

      5. Rex*

        In my experience, pseudoephedrine is only good when you need to get through something short term, it’s not a good solution if you need to keep going longer than a day because of rebound. I recommend lots of ginger tea and Tylenol or ibuprofen as needed during the day, add benadryl or cough syrup at night depending on your symptoms. Hot showers help, too.

      6. themmases*

        I do pseudoephedrine too, and then find something really spicy to eat while I wait for it to work. It clears out my head pretty quickly, but without making my sinuses painfully dry like they can be with nasal spray. Nasal spray (the medicated kind) works great but I now only use if it I’m unbearably congested when I need to sleep or something.

        Then I have as much tea as I want, all day. I get a few varieties so I can switch them up if I start to get bored with tea. The combination of plenty of tea + cold medicine more than makes up for being tired yet unable to have coffee. Plus you can breathe the steam, which feels great.

        Also, get a few things that you will eat whether because they’re a treat or because they are mild and comforting. I discovered with my most recent cold that just because I have no appetite doesn’t mean I won’t be cranky and unproductive due to low blood sugar.

    4. Sunflower*

      If you can get up and walk around more than usual that can help. Second the caffeine and green tea suggestion.

    5. matcha123*

      I go to the bathroom and do stretches, dancing and zumba. It might look strange, but it gets the blood flowing and my energy levels up. Plus it helps fight off boredom.

    6. kristinyc*

      This is a long shot, but if you happen to be in NYC, there’s a juice bar called “Juice Generation,” and they have a drink called the Cold Warrior. It’s tea, orange juice, echinacea, ginger, zinc, and agave nectar (maybe a few other things…). It’s delicious and soothes a sore throat. Whenever I feel a cold coming on, I drink those for a few days, and I don’t get sick. I think there’s a recipe online if you google “Cold Warrior Juice Generation”

      1. Katie the Fed*

        Oooh yum – i’ll have to make a batch of that. I have most of the ingredients already. thanks!

    7. LCL*

      Dayquil, one tablet as needed.
      If you are in the Pacific Northwest, pollen/allergy season has started because of the warm weather, tree pollen allergies are a real thing.

    8. Samantha*

      Get as much sleep as you can at night, and make sure you’re drinking lots of fluids. Dehydration will make you feel worse.

    9. rek*

      Any way to use your lunch break to take a short nap? When I’m really tired – eyes closing by themselves tired – I’ll set my phone alarm for however much time I have and close my eyes. Unfortunately, where I work is really limited on private places you would feel safe dozing off, but my car with the sunshade up (and the heat on in the winter) works in a pinch. If you have an office where you can close the door, you’ve got it made!
      Other than the nap, stay hydrated and make sure you eat something. Adding fuel to your internal fire can help make you feel more alert.
      Hope you feel better soon!

      1. SickRecentGrad*

        +1 to the nap. I’ve definitely napped in my car a few times, even when not sick. Make sure you bundle up though. I don’t do it in the summer because there’s only so much I can cool my car down, it’s like a greenhouse in there.

    11. danr*

      Can you take a day off to just sleep and have some good comfort food? Monday is probably not work day, so dedicate it to doing nothing. When you’re at work, take a real break to drink something hot. Hold the cup and breathe in the steam. It does you no good going cold next to the computer while you’re doing something.
      Hope you feel better soon.

    12. Xay*

      I’ve been on Dayquil and strong, hot, black tea for the last week trying to shake a cold. I would also recommend lots of water throughout the day.

    13. Lore*

      I third (or fourth?) the recommendation to stay hydrated. It helps more than you can imagine. I have a really hard time with pseudoephedrine and other cold medicines like it, but when I’m really clogged, sometimes half a dose can’t be avoided–but I’ve also found Mucinex to be effective at getting through that “I’m not actively sniffling and dripping but my head still feels full and foggy” phase. Also tea with honey and lemon–covers the caffeine and/or hydration issues and also helps with gunk-in-the-throat. And finally–when I’m sick, taking a proper lunch break seems more important than ever, both because I tend to have a low appetite when I’m sick and forcing myself to eat something is necessary, but also allowing myself even a half hour of mental down time definitely helps get through the afternoon.

      1. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

        I’ll second (fifth?) that. I’m a huge water-drinker, so I don’t normally worry about being hydrated, but for some reason I don’t keep up when I’m sick.

        1. SickRecentGrad*

          Yeah I drink a lot of water too, but when sick I don’t drink as much even though I actually need more water from the mouth-breathing, incessant mucus production, and random sweating.

    15. Olive Hornby*

      Advil Cold & Sinus. The pseudoephedrine clears out your head, and the ibuprofen helps with the low-level achiness that makes you feel so rundown when you have a cold.

    16. Elizabeth West*

      Alka-Seltzer Plus Cold (effervescent tablets) helps me with symptoms when I don’t want to be draggy. It’s not any good for coughs, but copious amounts of green tea with plenty of honey and lemon can take care of that. The tea also keeps me awake.

      1. cuppa*

        I swear by Alka-Seltzer, too. It’s the only thing that helps me.
        Also, I was sick a few weeks ago, and even though I thought I kept up on the fluids, I was parched. It is important to keep hydrated. Beyond that, lots of sleep/rest in your off hours, and a small treat to keep you perked up (helps if it has sugar in it).
        I like soup, too! It’s warm, hearty, hydrating, and has vegetables in it.

    17. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Two things:

      1) This doesn’t help you now, but at the first sign of cold symptoms, take one ibuprofen and one chlorpheniramine pill (an allergy pill; brand name Chlor-Trimeton, among others). It significantly shortens the duration of a cold and lessens the symptoms. I have no idea where I first encountered that idea (an article somewhere), but it’s worked for me for years.

      2) Emergen-C! I use this instead of caffeine in general. It perks me up quickly and effectively.

    18. Blue Anne*

      We have a black market of different flavours of Lemsip and similar medicated hot drinks going on in our office. Strong stuff, definitely helps me.

    19. Blue_eyes*

      I always take Emergen-C or Airborne. Drink lots of water. Take ibuprofen (it can help un-inflame your sinuses thus letting things drain better if being stuffy is one of your symptoms). Drink Odwalla (or Naked or Trader Joe’s) green juice. Try an OTC nasal decongestant spray, or it shouldn’t be hard to get a Rx for Flonase, but that won’t help right now since you’re already at work. Lots of tea.

    20. voluptuousfire*

      Using a saline solution (whether a netipot at home or a squeezy spraybottle at work ) to irrigate your nasal passages. Do this in the bathroom, of course. Having a stuffy nose makes me feel dopey and tired. I also vouch for psuedoephedrine. I find it’s the one thing that truly works for me.

      But to echo everyone else: lots of water, tea (or if you’re sick of tea, hot water with lemon), mucinex (or target’s brand which is a *lot* cheaper than the actual brand), etc.

    21. puddin*

      Get a massage at lunch, tell the practitioner that you are trying to keep energy while getting over a cold. She or He will know what to do. :)

      Hope you feel better soon, lingering colds are stoopy.

      1. AnotherTeacher*

        Ditto on the massage. A good therapist can help with lymph node drainage. Nettie pots are good, too.

        A few moths ago I had a cold like this. Aside from all of the good advice you’re getting for treating it, I recommend tackling boring/menial tasks you’ve set aside (if any). You can feel like you’re accomplishing things without expending too much energy.

    22. Algae*

      Thai Hot and Sour Soup. I think it’s best if you can find one that’s Chicken based, rather than Pork. You get a lot of the benefits of Chicken Noodle Soup with the extra punch of the goodies found in spicy peppers to clear things out.

      And Sudafed.

    23. Snafu Warrior*

      Breathe Easy tea by Traditional Medicinals. Just brew it like it says in the directions. It consistently clears up head/chest congestion for me, and it tastes ok (but not GREAT). I alternate that with emergen-c.

    24. Jazzy Red*

      Ice cream. It always helps me when I have a cold. I don’t know why, but when all else fails, ice cream does the job.

    25. GOG11*

      My asthma meds have caused a low level fever for about three weeks (among other cold like symptoms) and I’ve been getting extra sleep, staying hydrated and resting as much as possible outside of work so I’ve got more energy when I am at work. I’ve been making work easier by breaking everything down into steps on my to do list so when I’m tired and having trouble focusing and I space out I can see right where I left off on paper.

    26. little Cindy Lou who*

      It’s absolutely disgusting, but when I’m literally brain-dead tired I grab a redbull and sip it over the course of several hours. It really does push back the fog and give me enough energy to be truly productive. I only ever drink that crap when nothing else works to get me going, which is coming off a cold or after working several very late nights in a row to meet a deadline, etc

  11. Otter box*

    After 2 years of searching, I start a new job on Tuesday! Thanks to Alison and all the commenters here for your advice! This is such a fantastic resource. Thank you all!

        1. Otter box*

          And FYI Alison when I posted that using Chrome on my Android phone, it popped up with an ad that automatically took me to the Uber app on the Play store.

    7. Golden Yeti*

      Congrats! I’ve been searching for years myself, and posts like this give me hope. :)

      I hope it’s everything you are hoping for!

  12. Helen*

    Is it advisable to speak negatively of a former job if you don’t say which job it was?

    I have an interview next week. During the phone interview, the hiring manager spoke about how the person in this post would need to deal with some “strong personalities” who are less than cooperative. I can deal with the occasional difficult colleague, but I’m worried that what she might have been hinting at a difficult work environment. Would it be okay to say something like, “I’m fine working with the occasional difficult colleague, but I had a previous job where being uncooperative was a systemic problem and it really made me unhappy, and it’s important that I don’t take another job like that. Could you talk more about that?”

    For context, it’s a (non-recruitor) job at a staffing agency. It’s my understanding that many recruitors don’t like their jobs (and that there’s high turnover) which adds to my fear that everyone might be miserable and combative.

    1. Amtelope*

      Just speaking for myself, if I described a job opening that way, I would mean that, yes, it was a difficult work environment dealing with difficult people, and I would need someone thick-skinned and assertive for the job. I think they’ve given you a strong hint that taking this job means working with combative people; it’s up to you to decide whether that’s something you’re up for.

      Or you can probe for more details, but I would just … not be easily reassured; “strong personalities who are less than cooperative” pretty strongly implies to me “people you will be working with (either other staff or clients) are argumentative and dysfunctional, and we need the person in this role to handle that.”

      1. INTP*

        I agree with this. It’s a given that any job will involve an unpleasant coworker or two. When they talk about it up front, it’s something they’ve lost other employees too, and is probably either systemic or it’s your particular boss (which would make it systemic for you).

        I’ve been asked about my ability to handle difficult personalities before when it wasn’t a crappy environment, but in that case it was specifically the clients or candidates and they were clear about that. (It was internal customer service at a tech company as well as recruiting with an agency that handles a lot of tech and basically both times I was told, “You’ll be interacting with a lot of engineers and they can be really difficult. Can you handle that?” No offense to engineers here, I’m just repeating!)

      2. AdAgencyChick*

        Seriously. Recruiters are usually trying to present the company in a flattering light, so if the recruiter feels the need to mention them — that tells me there are enough that it’s a significant issue.

        1. Amtelope*

          Yeah, when I think about the past job opening that I would have described that way, the honest translation of “You’ll be working with strong personalities who are less than cooperative” would have been “We have lost three people in two years because they couldn’t deal with client contact person X, who is uncooperative, hates everything we do, and is a mean bully who has made previous people in this job cry. Management knows X is awful and will have your back, but dealing with X is the job we’re hiring for.” If that’s not the kind of situation you’d be cool with walking into, I wouldn’t take this job.

    2. Rat Racer*

      I would also recommend probing for more details and for examples. In my experience, it depends SO MUCH on whether management has your back. I can deal with difficult people all day as long as I have it in my head that my team (including my boss) is the island of sanity. However, if your boss is part of the crazy equation, then run, run run for the hills, I say.

    3. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I think your proposed response starts out fine, but I would recommend de-emphasizing your own feelings about it, because it doesn’t add anything to the conversation, your goal is really just to get more information. I suggest something more like: “I’m fine working with the occasional difficult colleague, but I had a previous job where being uncooperative was a systemic problem and it really impacted productivity and morale. Could you give me a little more detail about the problem?”

    4. Judy*

      Is there any way to speak with someone in your network that knows the environment? This is how I see linked in being the most use. For my current job, when I had an interview, I checked linked in and noted that a former co-worker’s son worked here. I arranged to talk with him over the weekend about culture issues, which eased my mind about some of my concerns about moving to a smaller firm.

    5. CrazyCatLady*

      I think that framing it as strong personalities who are less than cooperative is a nice way of saying it’s a difficult work environment. That’s good information to have up front. I would definitely ask for an example of a situation you’d be likely to encounter and go from there.

      I had an interviewer present me with the same information and I ended up taking the job. It was far more difficult than I envisioned and the strong personalities were impossible for me to deal with. I ended up leaving after a short time there. Some people may be well-suited for that type of environment, though!

    6. Lamb*

      You mention you’d be up for “the occasional difficult colleague”, but this sounds like several colleagues who are regularly difficult. To me that sounds like more than you are saying you are up for (but that is my interpretation).

    7. Jazzy Red*

      I did take a job once when the HR person described my boss as that type of person. I now describe her as my psycho-boss-from-hell.

      HR will underplay the severity of this. Even though you think they’re being open about these people, it will be worse than they suggest.

      RUN!

  13. Sunflower*

    I was writing a thank you note today and going through the archives- had no idea thank you notes were so controversial! I definitely send one to the hiring manager but what about sending one to the person who set up the interview? This time it was an HR Genralist who I had a phone screening with but sometimes it’s an assistant who I don’t have much correspondence with. Do you send a thank you note to them or does that come off too much like a**kissing?

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      I’d lean towards just the person you had the in person interview with, at this point. After the phone screen would have been the time to send the thank you email to the screener, I think.

      1. Sunflower*

        After she sent the interview confirm email, i wrote her back ‘thanks’ so I guess that would have served as the thank you?

        1. TotesMaGoats*

          I’m in complete agreement with AAM that a genuine thank you is always appropriate.

          If you sent a nice thank you after the phone screen, then that counts in my book.

  14. Kate*

    What are some sites to look for legitimate work from home jobs?
    I know We Work Remotely already.

    Thank you!

    1. puddin*

      E-Lance is another. I hire from there and they do a nice job in my opinion. But you are a ‘contractor’ in this scenario, not an employee of a company who is then working from home.

    5. katamia*

      I like realwaystoearnmoneyonline.com and workathomemomrevolution.com (99% of the leads aren’t paret-specific) for job leads. If you have an education background (and possibly even if you don’t), Pearson and ETS have work-at-home test grading jobs.

    6. SlickWilly*

      Try the normal job boards and add the keyword “remote” to your search. I found my current job that way (searching dice.com) and it is 100% work-from-home.

  15. TotesMaGoats*

    My boss is driving me crazy. So, the first part of this is just a vent because I know there is nothing I can do to change it.

    I swear he talks just to fill up space and because he likes the sound of his voice. We’re in conference calls and the only thing he really needs to say is a simple reply. Like “yes, we can do that.” Instead we get 3 minutes of extra words that mean the same thing. I think it’s because he’s really insecure in his position and he thinks saying so much makes him sound smart. It just makes me want to tear out my hair.

    The second part is that he talks to me like I’m an idiot and don’t know how to do my job. My chocolate teapot factories perform the best of all of his factories and I’m bagging major partnerships with chocolate teapot organizations that make us look really good. No one else is doing that. Then when I ask permission (because even at the director level I have no autonomy in the areas that I should), to host a career fair for a major state agency he asks for a plan for how to promote. As though, as I wouldn’t know to put together a plan in the first place. I used to reply with something that indicates that I already have a plan but found it didn’t make a change. He wants to tell me to do my job. It gives him power. Since it’s a power play, is there anything I can do to convince him that he doesn’t need to tell me things like that? The one time I preempted the “you need a plan” comment with an actual plan, there was no acknowledgment and the plan was basically panned because it didn’t have the detail he wanted. Even though I specifically asked for what details he wanted. And others who saw the plan thought it was as complete as I could possibly get a first draft.

    On the upside, went looking for open positions today and found a great opportunity. So, since I have literally nothing to do today, I’m working on my cover letter.

    1. NJ Anon*

      I had a boss too who liked to talk so he could let us all know how smart he was. We would literally fall asleep in meetings as he droned on. Unfortunately no advice but to look elsewhere on the second issue. That would drive me nuts!

      1. TotesMaGoats*

        What’s worse is that it seems to ebb and flow. Sometimes we are so in sync with each other and just rocking along. Lots of mutual respect. How it should be. I get treated like a colleague with a decade of valuable experience. Then on other days, usually after he’s had to hear alot of the latest awesome thing that I’ve done, he gets heavy handed. And that sounded horrible. I’ve been having a really good couple of months, “production”-wise at my factories. I’m sure that something will go wrong eventually but right now everything is wonderful.

        1. Dynamic Beige*

          Of course he gets heavy handed, you’re a star player. A star player who could probably do his job (and possibly better than he can) and that’s a scary thought. So then it’s time to rock your boat and do something to ensure that doesn’t happen and make sure you stay in your place. Or at least that’s my take on it.

          And no, you will never win with this guy. He’ll have to leave or you will.

          1. esra*

            Yep, I had a manager just like this. They can’t control their insecurities and it comes out in the worst ways.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          The last time I saw this it was jealousy/feeling threatened.

          I hate to say butter him up. But maybe think about things that you can genuinely compliment him about.

          The rule of thumb I have heard is that people need to hear five positive things and they will then realize you complimented them once. Yes, you say five things and they hear one thing. I tend to agree that this can be pretty normal for most people.

          Again, I hate saying this because it sounds like brown-nosing. But sometimes random compliments help to ease things. For myself, I don’t say anything that I do not mean. With someone else, I would probably not mention some of the good points. But if I can see a situation building where the boss/cohort seems insecure/tense/whatever, I try to say truthful things more often to help this person along.

          I grew up in a family where it was assumed you knew you were good at this or that. Compliments did not come around often. This could be his background. Compounding matters if people around you are talking about what a great job you are doing, he could be feeling fatigued or cranky because of the free-flowing compliments about you.

          I do agree with you that he is hard to work with. And it is not your fault at all, but you are stuck dealing with the situation, anyway.

    2. Ann Furthermore*

      Oh god, you so have my sympathy! People like that are the absolute worst, aren’t they?

      I work for a subsidiary of a huge company, and I’m a member of a team that does ERP implementations and support. At the start of a project a couple years ago, some alleged IT experts from the parent company wanted us to present an overview of our project plan, deliverables, requirements and so on.

      They requested that the meeting start at 7:00 AM. It is an enormous hassle for me to get anywhere that early, because I have to make alternate daycare drop-off arrangements, get my daughter up early, and so on. So I made the herculean effort to be there on time, and then these 2 jackasses strolled in 40 MINUTES LATE with their Starbucks cups, talking about how bad traffic was.

      So the PM and some other people presented the project plan, deliverables, requirements. So these 2 guys start talking to us like we’re complete morons, blessing us with their wisdom and giving us idiotic “advice” like, “I’d really recommend that you review your requirements with your users,” even though that’s a standard practice on every project, and we had done that months ago. It was a whole day of that. What’s so frustrating is that even though we’re a pretty small company compared to the parent, the things our team have done with the ERP system is lightyears ahead of what they’ve done. But we had to sit there and listen to them pontificate all day long, telling us all kinds of things we already knew. OMG.

      At 9:15, someone suggested a break and said, “OK, let’s meet back here in 10 minutes.” One of these guys piped up and treated us to a 2 minute dissertation about how it would be better to tell everyone to be back by 9:25, because it was more precise to state a specific time. But by that time it was 9:17, so I timed my return to occur at 9:27.

      When I went to pick up my daughter that night, I was telling the daycare lady that I’d been subjected to an all-day meeting that was along the lines of her having to put up with someone from the state coming in to evaluate her daycare, making suggestions like, “Have you ever thought about having the kids do crafts?” and then stand there and smile and say, “What a fantastic idea!”

      A couple days later, I was venting to my director about what a giant waste of time it was, and he said, “Ann, that is just the way the world works. We have to stand there and smile and say, ‘Oh, thank you, great idea!’ We can’t say, ‘Yes we already know that, f**k you!'” LOL.

      2. You pour yourself over me like the sun through the blinds*

        Yeah, you both have my complete sympathy on this.

        I don’t know if it’s helpful or even particularly insightful, but two observations I’ve made over the years:

        1. When the boss puts me in some kind of no-win situation (like the plan you developed already, but when you gave it to him, it didn’t have the right details), it’s because I’m effectively being used by him as a form of therapy. Which doesn’t make it _right_ – but I’ll usually feel a bit better for realizing that I’m looking at The Big Picture versus getting all reactive and emotional about it.

        2. Sometimes work is really theater. If you think about the big project review as a drama, in which everyone has their part to play … Again, it doesn’t make it right, but maybe understanding how these people are fulfilling roles – as in, as corporate big shots, they *have* to provide you with their esteemed advice and feedback and suggestions and approval.

        *sigh* I realize that this isn’t especially useful in any proactive manner. For me, it’s like ‘armor’ in a RPG: it helps me absorb the hits without taking too much actual damage.

        Last thing: your boss, or some corporate big shot, is not superior to you outside the context of your job. Years ago, I had a guy move in down the street who was a VP in my company, in a different division. It was interesting to view this guy as a neighbor (and not a corporate superior). I won’t disparage him too badly, but as neighbors go, let’s just say he was unimpressive.

        (And while I didn’t antagonize him, I could tell he was unhappy that I did not kow-tow to him).

    3. Golden Yeti*

      No advice, just empathy. I have a supervisor like that, too. Meetings that should take no longer than an hour drag out to 2 or 3 because this supervisor has to give an opinion about everything, or explain things we already know. Sometimes extra information really isn’t needed; I don’t need the whole story, just tell me what I need to do my job.

      1. Beancounter in Texas*

        Sympathy totes here too. My boss likes to host “Tuesday Morning Meetings” on any given morning or afternoon (and insists on retaining the Tuesday morning name). He even suggested once that we host the meeting at 10:30am every Tuesday as a means to ensure we gather, but the reality is that he takes an hour to prepare his notes for the meeting, and he does that when he feels like it. We don’t encourage it, because he just reads his notes to us. And his notes are updates of data from the previous week, when a monthly update is more relevant. We’ve had two employees fall asleep in these meetings. I always bring coffee, if only to have something to do.

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      No advice, just sympathy. I worked with a boss years ago who a friend described as having “diarrhea of the mouth.” He would have hours long status meetings where he would tell us things we already knew and then tell us things we didn’t need to know and weren’t interested in. It was such a challenge staying awake and looking interested.

  16. Ali*

    So I’m not sure what’s going on with my job right now. I posted here a week or two ago that I was nervous my boss was replacing me behind my back since there was a job opening for my title. As it turns out, though, we had our team meeting the other day and one of the people on the team is getting promoted to help with a new division in the company. So I guess they’re not replacing me just yet after all.

    However, I was also told three weeks ago that my boss would take more formal action against me because he still wasn’t happy with my work. He hasn’t bothered to follow up since, and my other supervisor, who’s just a more senior member of our team that isn’t as high level, hasn’t mentioned it either. I’m really confused about what to think about my employment status, so I’m just trying to relax and keep going to work, because God knows I don’t want to be the one to ask where my next formal warning is.

    I am looking to switch out of journalism into a more marketing communications based role, so if anyone has advice for that path, it would be appreciated. I edit right now and don’t want to be an editor anymore. I would like to use my new-found social media skills (though my other job largely has me doing Twitter work and I’ve dabbled in Pinterest and Instagram) and get back into a job that involves more writing, though I also know there’s probably some other skills I need to pick up. Where should I start to get some foundation?

    1. Lizzy May*

      No advice but I’m thinking about you. Feeling insecure in your job can be so stressful. Hopefully someone with experience in the field will have something to add.

  17. CruiseAlong*

    Aam

    How do you survive in a very clique-y office? No one has been unkind or unwelcoming but I’ve been here a year and still don’t feel very included. I think my coworkers have just been together so long and they’re at different points of their lives than I am that I can’t join the group so easily (I’m the youngest and without kids, everyone else is older with families).

    How do I keep my sanity when feeling so isolated here?

    1. Bend & Snap*

      It’s hard. I think ultimately you have to either suck it up and think of work as work and not a place where you’re going to get social interaction, or move on.

      I chose to move on when this happened to me.

    2. HeyNonnyNonny*

      I know it’s not super helpful, but I’ll tell my husband/fill-in-the-blank loved one when something like this happens at work, and he gives me a big squeeze. Basically, spending time with someone who DOES want to spend time with you helps take the sting out of other slights.

    3. OhNo*

      Is there anyone there that you share an interest with? I don’t mean a group or a clique, I mean a single person. If so, try chatting with them one-on-one a few times – stop by their cube on their break to ask if they saw the latest episode of some TV show, or whatever kind of interest you share.

      Oftentimes, I’ve found that getting in with one person is the easiest method to getting in with a group. After you build up a rapport with one, they will usually make an effort to include you in group things, which will help you get in with others. Plus, even short chats with people throughout the day can help with that isolated feeling.

      Also, remember that everyone in the office is only human. Unless you work with a bunch of jerks, it’s unlikely that they are leaving you out on purpose. It’s more likely that they are just busy with their own social circle, and don’t notice that you are being left out. It still sucks, but it’s definitely a fixable problem.

      1. OriginalEmma*

        This is a great suggestion. It was one way I broke the ice for myself at my old job, where I was new (to the working world and this job in particular) and had appeared to others as rude (because I’m a shy, head-down, mumble “hello”, person when in a new environment). I would try to find common ground with individual folks and happily, I did it enough to feel part of the group.

        These folks, eventually, became that quintessential group of coworkers I wanted to put in my pocket, and bring to every job I ever had after.

    5. Vancouver Reader*

      For me, I just take it in stride. I am a loner and so I tend not to talk to people much anyway. I bring books to read at lunch, or my knitting. If you have a portable hobby like knitting, you can take it to work and that could be a conversation starter.

    6. Rex*

      Keep being friendly and open of course, but also think about widening your circle. Maybe you don’t connect with anyone in your department, but are there other departments where there might be someone you can click with? Someone in an org you work with frequently? Someone in the same building?

    7. NowProwl*

      I’ve also been the youngest and without kids, but it does come down to finding the same interests. What got me was doing some random invitations for food (hey, we’re going to blank, wanna come?) or digging around when you say ‘hi’ in the kitchen to see if you have the same interests. Food makes the world go round.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      People love to talk about themselves. Learn something about each person in the office. Nancy has a baby llama. Sheila just became a grandmother. Bob got an award last week. Inquire about their thing that they have going on.

      It takes a while, but they will notice you more and notice the things that are of interest to you. It’s starts out slowly. One day a person asks, “Did you have any trouble getting in to work with all this bad weather?” That sounds like a general question but that is also showing an interest and including you. So don’t skate by little questions like this. “I had an okay ride in, I just got new tires and I am pretty happy with them. How was your drive?” See, you throw a tidbit of information out and they can either ask you about your new tires or they can talk about their drive in, also. If you do this routinely, it will build on itself.

      It’s hard to include people who you don’t know. And, unfairly, the onus seems to be on the newer person to learn about the established people first. Then, after a bit the established people start to take more of an interest and start to include the new person more often. Any new job I have had, I have found this usually works this way.

      1. AnotherFed*

        This is a great way to work on improving things. Obviously, people are at work to work and hopefully not there to socialize, so it can sometimes take a long time for these little conversations to add up to a solid relationship. Just make sure that you’re out to build camaraderie with your coworkers, not make your coworkers the major part of your social circle (I’m not saying this is what you are doing, just that some new grads, especially moving to a new area, try to make coworkers into replacement dormmates/classmates).

        One other thing to note – when you’re young, new to the job, and not long out of school, time feels a lot slower than it does later, especially if later is once you’ve assumed more than a full person’s worth of work AND have kids. Coworkers may honestly just not realize how long you’ve been there.

  18. Bend & Snap*

    Any tips on recharging to combat burnout? I’m an introvert having a rough time personally (divorce) and am running 100mph professionally. My boss just suggested I take a couple of days off.

    I have a toddler so can’t really go anywhere, but I need to use two days to really refresh and come back bright eyed and bushy tailed.

    How do the AMA acolytes overcome burnout?

    1. GOG11*

      It’s good that your boss is supporting you in taking some time away to recharge. I’m recently divorced and my job has picked up speed/intensity recently and it’s definitely worn me down – I can definitely empathize and it’s not an easy spot to be in.

      What do you normally do to recharge? (Preferably something that isn’t an activity you solely did with your soon to be ex – that may just drain you more). Is there something you’ve been wanting to try? A show you could binge watch? Could you give yourself permission to stay in and work on something soothing that works different brain muscles than your job? Also, if a baby sitter would be possible, even for a little while, maybe that could help if it means nobody needs anything from you for a while.

      Take care. I hope you’re able to get some good R and R.

    2. Katie the Fed*

      When I’m struggling with burnout, I do best when I have something else to focus on. Usually for me burnout happens when my job is all I have to focus on – so that’s a good time to start a home improvement project, a new class or workout program, or something like that. Just something to distract me and make work not seem like the be all/end all of my life. The last time I was super burnt out I got a dog – made me leave work at a reasonable time and think about something else. :)

      Good luck – I hope you get a little peace!

    3. Rat Racer*

      Is the toddler going to be at daycare during the few days off? Because I know for myself that watching my kids solo for a couple of days is not a good way to recharge (I find it much more exhausting than work).

      If I were you, I would indulge in all my favorite “take care of self” things. For me, that would be trail runs, HBO, the New Yorker and take-out for dinner. To each her own though, right? Sounds like a really rough patch – sending good vibes your way….

      1. Tiffy the Fed... Contractor*

        Agreed. The only time I get to relax after work is when my 2.5 year old is in bed and that doesn’t always happen because, you know, chores. Is there anyone who can watch your toddler for you? Family, babysitter, friends, neighbor?

        As a fellow introvert, my recharging involves spending time in a cozy (and clean, because I can’t relax in clutter) place watching a movie or reading a book with an ordered in delicious meal.

        Best wishes to you.

    4. Jules*

      I tell my husband to send our toddler to daycare and stay at home to catch up on shows/movies/games/sloth around. He is an introvert and hates going out so this works to wind him down. We all have moments where you need time out from the world’s demands. For me, I’d send the toddler to school and go to a library or bookstore to catch up on the stuff I missed while working gazillion hours and taking care of the family. It doesn’t have to be a vacation, taking some ‘me time’ helps too.

      For long term, try shifting your hours. I am amazed at how my stress level changed when I started my day earlier at work and finish early too. I shifted it by one hour so that I have some quiet prep time before the office madness decends. I liked finishing early too since I am on the road before the rest of the office ends and I am in my driveway before the full on traffic starts. It also gives me extra time to stop at the store on days that I need to without cutting into my night routine. I tried starting late and finishing late and found that it doesn’t suit my body clock.

    5. Sarah Nicole*

      Do something for yourself, Band & Snap! I do not have any children, so I know I’m not one to be able to understand trying to take time for yourself when you do have a young one at home. But is there anyone at all who may be able to babysit for you even for just a few hours for this couple of days?

      If so, go outdoors, reconnect with an old friend, or go to yoga! Yoga is what really helps recharge me – I work FT plus a PT job and am trying to start my own business on the side. I feel burnt out all the time unfortunately, and just taking that hour or two to get in better touch with myself makes a big difference to me. I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but this works for me. There are also great videos on youtube, like Yoga with Adriene. If you can’t get away, but perhaps your little one is quietly playing or taking a nap, you may be able to sneak in some you time. Good luck!

      1. Ann Furthermore*

        Yes to yoga. It really helps with my stress, plus I sleep better too. I’ve got an app on my tablet called Daily Yoga, and I do a 20 minute routine every morning, and try to hit a class once or twice a week. I’m pretty hooked.

        1. Sarah Nicole*

          Oh I’ve seen that app! I think some people think you have to get to a studio. I do prefer it, honestly, just because I like to have the instruction. But you can get a lot of the benefits at home and in shorter sessions.

          1. Ann Furthermore*

            I was talking about yoga with a work friend the other day, she’s thinking about giving it a try. She was going to try an app, but I advised her to go to classes for awhile to get the hang of it and learn what some of the more common positions are. If you’ve never done it, and you’re trying to follow along to someone telling you to do chair, warrior, pigeon, etc, and you don’t know what that is, it would be hard. And annoying. Not the point of yoga at all. :)

            The Daily Yoga app is either $5 per month or $30 per year. I looked around for a free one at first, but this one is much nicer. There are a ton of routines you can download, for all sorts of things: weight loss, arms, legs, help with sleeping, morning yoga — tons. So I think it’s a good deal.

            1. Sarah Nicole*

              Yes, agreed. I can do videos or apps now because I know most of the positions well enough, but beginners should try to get into a few classes if they can afford it – I live in SoCal and studios around here can be very expensive.

              Anyway, Bend & Snap, sorry to have hijacked your thread here! I was going to mention that if there is a studio around you that offers any restorative yoga classes, you should try that if you can. Most poses would be easy enough for a beginner and they truly are restorative. I went to one recently feeling super burnt out and having problems in other areas of life, and I came out of it feeling pretty clean – just 75 minutes did that. I was amazed.

    6. Ann Furthermore*

      Sorry to hear about your divorce. That is really a hard thing to go through.

      Since you work, I’m assuming that you already have daycare arrangements for your toddler. Keep using it for a few days while you relax and have some time to yourself. Go to the spa, do some binge watching on Netflix, etc. Even better, if things aren’t too contentious with your soon-to-be ex, could you ask him to take care of your child for a few days? Or if the grandparents live close by, could your little one stay with them for a few days?

      As a fellow introvert, and as the mother of a 6 year old, for me, nothing is more relaxing and refreshing than extended solitude. Next month, I’m travelling for a 2 week testing event. I’m going to stay through the weekend, since it would be kind of dumb to fly home Friday night and turn around and fly back out Sunday. 2 days of complete alone time. I cannot wait. Plus, I’ve been insanely busy, and I’ll need some down time. I’m into the last 90 days of this project from hell, plus I somehow ended up as the chairperson for the fundraising auction for my daughter’s school, and both things are really kicking into high gear.

    7. CLT*

      I read fiction. I stop by the library and pick up a stack of books (so I can discard a book if I just don’t like it 30 pages in). The reason I find this so restful is that it takes me completely outside of myself and does not allow room in my brain for thinking about other things. Two to three novels back-to-back and I am rested in both body and brain. Interesting snacks to sustain the effort are a plus.

    8. ZSD*

      I’m sorry for the difficult time you’re going through.
      In general, since my job involves staring at a computer screen all day, I try to make my recharge activities *not* involve looking at a screen. I’d suggest getting outside if possible (though I realize that’s difficult in a large swath of the country right now), or at least doing something like playing an instrument or getting together for board games with friends. (This is assuming your job also involves staring at a computer screen. If your job instead involves, say, working with customers or patients all day, then you might want to do something that doesn’t involve seeing other humans.)

    9. Persephone Mulberry*

      I took ELEVEN days over the Christmas holiday. Family obligations made it not quite the relaxation nirvana it could have been, of course, but it was still glorious. I was on full burn from mid-August through mid-December, and it was the promise of those 11 days that got me through the worst of it. So yes, if your boss is open/encouraging of “mental health” days, there are few things better that you can do for yourself, IMO!

      I assume your toddler/can’t go anywhere comment was more directed at the idea of going off the grid for a long spa weekend, or whatever, but absolutely send the kid wherever he typically goes while you’re at work, and enjoy the daytime hours lounging around in your jammies, or shopping without a constant chorus of “I want”, or whatever sounds most appealing.

    10. OriginalEmma*

      If yoga isn’t your cup of tea but you want that quiet time, perhaps guided meditation or guided relaxation is more your speed. Another child-free person here who cannot comment on the struggles of childrearing, but I found the guided relaxation/meditation MP3s to be very useful. And I say this as someone who, when initially recommended such, thought “what a bunch of hippy, woo-woo non-sense.” But it worked for me (for helping get to sleep).

      Bonus is that you can use the guidance at any time, practically any place, without looking out of place because it’s simply focused on relaxing muscles and bodies parts with adopting a lowered gaze (or closed eyes).

      The one I use is called Letting Go of Stress by Emmett Miller and Steven Halpern.

    11. Bend & Snap*

      THANK YOU for all these suggestions! Very helpful and hopefully will help me recharge! The kiddo will definitely stay in daycare but mama may get some much-needed sleep and relaxation.

      I like the no-screen advice as far as texts and email too. I really appreciate how many people took the time for advice and encouragement.

      1. Muriel Heslop*

        Hang in there! Everyone had great suggestions for stress relief which I can always use (personally, I would underscore yoga, takeout, fiction, and long walks outside). I have a friend in a similar situation as yours, and she has asked for small dinners with friends to help her relax and reconnect with people. Please ask your friends and family for help if they are available and reliable – we want to help the people we care about!

        Have a great weekend – I hope you get some relaxation!

    12. Nice shot, man*

      It’s not politically correct, but

      – put on favorite comfy clothes
      – take kid to sitter
      – open windows if it’s nice out
      – home entertainment system on, set to loud, a playlist of tunes that are “aggressive”
      – get buzzed
      – order pizza
      – call old friends

  19. Wolfey*

    Guys, what do you say when you give two weeks notice? I’m planning to put mine in at the end of the month and would like to avoid an awkward conversation. I’ve left a job before, but it was more of an “everyone moves on after 2 years, just let me know you end date” sort of thing.

    1. Helen*

      Do you have a new job? If so I’d say that I’ve accepted another job and my last day will be X. If not, I would say, I’ve decided to resign. My last day will be X. If you had a good/decent experience, I might add something like it’s been great working for you, thanks for the experience, etc.

      1. Wolfey*

        I am going back to school full time. I went part-time in January to balance taking classes, but the schedule isn’t working out + I’m miserable here. Originally I was supposed to stay for ~year and my proposed end date will make it about 11 months. Project wise I’m in a good place to leave. I feel badly missing the year mark, but on the other hand I’ve billed FAR more hours for them than anyone else doing a job that is not what I signed up for (bait and switch).

        I’m more curious about how those conversations start. It could be awkward because I’m pretty sure they let me go part-time to try to stem the flow of people (SO. MANY. PEOPLE.) quitting . I can totally see him trying to guilt trip me and don’t want to burn any bridges.

        1. Helen*

          I think that going back to school is probably the option that’s least likely to make them resent you! I would just say something like I’ve done a lot of thinking and decided that I should go back to school full time. Keep it positive.

        2. fposte*

          Don’t overthink :-). “Boss, I wanted to let you know that I’ll be leaving the company on March 1. I’ve already started thinking about preparing transition materials and would be happy to meet with you to identify priorities if you wish. I’ll follow up with an email for the record.”

          “No, I’m afraid part-time isn’t a possibility. I’ll leave as much transition support as I can to help the new person, and I’d be happy to train if you get somebody in before I leave.”

          1. Not So NewReader*

            So agree. Say as little as you can, then wait for questions. Answer the questions.

            Be sure to say thank you for the opportunity to work there. Yes, even if you do NOT mean it. ;) Tell the boss thank you, anyway*. It will come across as classy and it will put help put things in a good place.

            *Skip this step if you boss was a toxic cesspool.

    2. HigherEd Admin*

      I guess it depends on your relationship with your manager and whether or not you enjoyed your role during your time there, but I’ve said something along the lines of:

      “I wanted to let you know that I have been offered the opportunity to sell chocolate teapots at Teapots R Us and I’ve decided to pursue it. It was a hard decision, but I think it’s the right move for my career. I’m really going to miss the work and the people here, and want to make the transition period as smooth as possible. My last day here will be ___.”

    3. themmases*

      I left my job to go back to school, and it was actually a nice conversation because people were happy for me (or at least they had to act like they were). I called or dropped by people’s offices to ask if they had a minute when I already knew they did, came in, said “I wanted to let you know that I’m going to be returning to school for X,” and took it from there. I gave them a ballpark last day and we worked out the exact last day from there.

      My boss hinted about me staying part-time and I just said no thank you. There are lots of benefits to being a full-time student and the types of jobs you can take and time you can spend with faculty, and I just said thank you but I need to be available for that to get the full career benefit in this field.

      Good luck!

  20. GOG11*

    Any tips on how to handle comments or questions from coworkers about disability-related accommodations? I wouldn’t mind giving honest, matter-of-fact answers if the coworkers who asked didn’t mishandle other people’s information (one coworker becomes outwardly angry – raised voice, slammed door – and the other has, on multiple occasions, told me something and then came back later and said not to tell anyone as he shouldn’t have shared X with me in the first place).

    One example is a piece of equipment that is new to the work area. Another is time off (really, just going to the doctor and rearranging my schedule a bit to come in early or leave late or using sick leave).

    My manager addressed concerns about the latter with me and I asked if the coworker had concerns about my performance (not getting work done in a timely manner, for example) and she said no but recommended sharing WHY I’m out which may alleviate worries about my being out.

    I don’t want to be awkwardly secretive, but I also don’t want to be completely frank and open because I know the information will be misused.

    1. LCL*

      I am out of the office for medical leave.
      This equipment is for medical reasons.
      The boss and I are keeping track of my leave time.

      That’s it. I lean towards telling people, but if you don’t want to you don’t have to. If you decide you don’t want to, tell your manager that and request that she back you up. She should be able to say “GOG11 is on leave today” and end the conversation.

      1. Celeste*

        Agree with this. If the person persists, repeat verbatim. If they don’t get satisfaction, they’ll move along.

      2. Xarcady*

        You get to keep your private medical information private. You don’t even have to tell your boss what your medical issues are, just that you have them. Of course, it usually helps if your boss knows what’s up, because then they can make informed suggestions to you.

        But co-workers? Co-workers who will gossip or spread your news throughout the company? No, you do not have to tell them.

        It will make your *boss’s* job easier if you tell them. But it sounds as if it will make *your* life much more difficult. So just don’t. The suggestions offered by other posters are great. And your boss could use a line such as, “I’m keeping GOG11’s private information private, just as I’m sure you would want me to do with your private information.”

    2. Katie the Fed*

      “My manager addressed concerns about the latter with me and I asked if the coworker had concerns about my performance (not getting work done in a timely manner, for example) and she said no but recommended sharing WHY I’m out which may alleviate worries about my being out. ”

      Uh, no. Bad management. The only appropriate response from the manager to the busybodies is: “It’s between me and GOG11 and I’ve approved all of her leave. Please worry about your own work.”

      You’re under no obligation to tell anyone anything. I would just leave it super vague – “It’s something I need – it’s all been approved. Why do you ask?”

      2. w9*

        I think it’s good to as why – there may be an unexpected consequence that can be easily resolved. Once had a great conversation with a colleague in a similar situation. (In that case we had a strong relationship so we could speak frankly)

        1. Katie the Fed*

          But these don’t sound like people she has a good relationship with. They sound like busybodies who can’t be trusted with any sensitive information.

          1. GOG11*

            The coworker who brought it up also framed it as “nobody is supervising her” (boss is in another location). I’m leaning toward the coworker worrying about things he doesn’t need to based on the context and his previous actions toward me and others.

            1. Katie the Fed*

              Yeah – I think the real problem here is you have jerk coworkers who the manager isn’t reining in.

              I can’t imagine listening to a complaint like that from someone and not responding with something akin to “eyes on your own paper!”

    3. Sunflower*

      I would just repeat with LCL said and not elaborate. Honestly, people are going to notice you’re moving your schedule around and that’s probably why your manager suggested you disclose the info- so that way there isn’t chatter about what may or may not be going on. However, I’ve found people are going to talk and make assumptions even if you told them the truth so you’re better off just keeping it vague

      1. Katie the Fed*

        I would agree if this were anything other than a medical issue, but I really think the manager needs to tell people to stop gossiping and speculating on something that’s none of their business.

        1. GOG11*

          +1. I don’t want my coworkers offering unsolicited advice or viewing my actions through “GOG11 has X condition and that’s why she put so-and-so’s mail in my box” (rather than being human and making a mistake once in a while).

          Plus, to be frank, sometimes they’re jerks. I don’t want to have to share sensitive information with someone that I am extra diligent about being professional around.

    4. Bend & Snap*

      Don’t share, and your boss shouldn’t be asking you to share. I had an old boss who recommended sharing medical info with my team to explain why I was out of the office and then dinged me later when I didn’t. It’s a private thing and nobody’s business except those helping you with accommodations.

    5. Anonsie*

      In my experience, once you have experienced a group act inappropriately with this information, that’s it. There isn’t a way to deal with them that will make them behave better, and I feel like it’s usually because of whatever existing ideas they have about both privacy and the nature of illness, and you can’t act in a way that will influence either of those.

      When I’m in these groups, it goes down to no information. It’s not secretive; that is privileged information, and they have shown themselves to not be able to handle it.

    6. GOG11*

      Thanks, everyone, for your answers! My boss phrased sharing why I’m out as a suggestion (rather than an order), but I still felt pressured to disclose more than I wanted to and now I feel entirely reasonable and confident in not divulging personal medical information.

      If my boss brings up the issue again (either to check in on it or if coworker continues to raise concerns), is there any way I can suggest that she communicate to the coworker?

      I think the phrasing Xarcady and Katie the Fed used is wonderful but I can’t think of an appropriate way to suggest addressing coworkers that way (instead of suggesting that I disclose more info to appease them).

      1. Katie the Fed*

        Can you say something to your boss like “actually, I’d really love your help on tamping down everyone’s curiosity on this – would you mind trying to shut that down if people bring it to you? It’s just not something I’m comfortable discussing with everyone”

      2. Xarcady*

        What Katie the Fed said.

        Something similar came up once with someone I supervised. She returned from a vacation, glowing with the news that she was pregnant. She told me, as she would need time for doctor’s visits, etc., but held off telling anyone else. Two weeks later, she had a miscarriage and was out for two weeks. She specifically told me she did not want anyone else in the company to know–it would make it that much harder for her to return to work.

        One particularly nosy, gossipy manager tried every way she could to pry the information out of me, and when that didn’t work, she attacked the owner of the company at a management meeting, claiming we all needed to know if someone had contracted a contagious disease so that we could protect ourselves against it. And I just knew that this person would make my employee’s life miserable if she ever found out what had happened.

        And the owner used the wording upthread and shut the nosy manager down.

        So maybe a word to your manager that she could reinforce the idea that private information for *all* employees is kept private. Including the curious, gossipy ones. You will not be the last employee this manager has who does not want to broadcast their health details to the entire office. She needs to learn how to manage this sort of situation.

        The curious employees will either get over it or die mad. That’s their problem, not yours.

      3. Hillary*

        Everything Katie the Fed said is completely right. One consideration (very much dependent on your team dynamics) may be that your teammates worry and want to know you’re going to be ok and possibly help. One year my small, close-knit team had two people go out on long term disability. One of them shared that he’d been in an accident and would have a long recovery. We organized food, his friends visited, and we were all glad we could support him. The other person chose not to share any information – all we knew was that she was out for two months. Completely within her rights, but we would have liked to know that she wasn’t hit by a car. Saying “I’m working through [whatever], but I’ll be fine” can go a long way. Whatever can be as vague or detailed as you want.

        1. GOG11*

          What you did for your coworker is very nice, but in this case, he sort of implied that I was skipping out on work from the sound of it. And from past behavior I’ve seen firsthand, I don’t think either of the potential coworkers is thinking as graciously as you all did.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            If someone thinks you are skipping out on work then all they need to know is that the boss has been informed. End of topic. Honest! They don’t sign your paycheck, if the boss is satisfied that is all that needs to happen.

            Maybe you could try, “You know, all that stuff is so boring to me. My time at work is my time out from it. I get to take a break from that stuff. I prefer not to dwell on it.”

            Tricky part: Maybe you can’t say this to the angry coworkers and be heard. But maybe you can say it to a nice coworker and “let” angry coworker overhear you saying that.

    1. Katie the Fed*

      Very, very rarely, and not much anymore.

      But there’s a a special art to just dropping a little nugget in a conversation with a higher-up so it doesn’t look like you went to anyone directly. Just happening to let a little something slip. Oooops.

    2. Barbara in Swampeast*

      Oh boy! I once went over my boss’s head because the decision was his boss’s decision and she had always said her door was open. NEVER AGAIN.

      Unless it is your boss who is doing something against the rules or illegal or a dangerous situation that s/he will not address, leave it be and just live with it.

    3. Bea W*

      Yes, but he violated umpteen internal policies, some federal regulations, and the entire document on good clinical documentation practices, AND he told me to ignore it and not ask questions.

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      My friend, AKA Sydney did that a few weeks ago. I recommended AAM for how to deal with the inevitable question for “why were you fired from your last job?” So sometimes, going over your boss’s head is the worst sin of all. :(

    5. Oh anon*

      I went over my boss’s head, with his permission, regarding a pay issue that he didn’t know the answer to. Boss said if his boss didn’t have an answer to email his boss’s boss. I was brand new and didn’t know boss’s boss’s boss. I followed instructions & boss’s boss didn’t have an answer, so I emailed his boss. Well that just got everyone in a tizzy! Several days later I was told I was too “aggressive.”

      1. Oh anon*

        I forgot to mention, after all that, my boss claimed he never told me to contact anyone. I was so new I wouldn’t have known who to contact had he not told me!

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I went to my boss’ boss on a really bad thing. Actually that all landed okay.
      What blindsided me was my supervisor who knew all the particulars.
      So this is a case of boss and boss’ boss are okay in the end and supervisor, who was not involved, was not okay in the end. Watch out for the people on the side lines that know what you are doing.

      I have found the safest bet is to assume that the boss’ boss already knows it- whatever “it” is – and is okay with it. Make your decisions accordingly.

    7. The Quotable Caddyshack*

      TL;DR: My company has a written “open door policy” that states you won’t suffer reprisal for doing it. And I even believe that they are sincere about it. But I personally wouldn’t do it unless it was something a major issue, and even then I’d prepare myself for a peculiar career – documenting the crap out of everything, possibly engaging a lawyer, yadda – for however much longer I worked there. For example: I wouldn’t do it over a bad appraisal.

      But: several years ago my boss and I had a disagreement [details elided] and he was positioning to fire me somehow, so I talked to his boss, and my boss was apparently told to drop it. And some months later I was offered a highly desirable new position with a new, improved boss, which I accepted and I have since had very little to do with my old boss.

      Important details that you want to know: officially I did not have to do this, but I “asked permission” to speak to his boss before doing so. This was literally “an offer he couldn’t refuse”, but if yer gonna do something like this, you definitely want to take the High Road. Also: I realize this sounds self-serving, but the issue my boss had with me was a genuine, objectively provable surprise to me – he dropped a whole huge pile of shit on me with no warning – and also my boss was objectively wrong in his position (to this day I don’t know what was going on with him). I didn’t want to go over his head, but I felt my job was on the line: he forced my hand -and- I had nothing to lose. In short: be pure of heart and make sure you have a solid case.

      One other thing: I had an experienced mentor that I could trust, and she helped me navigate this. I’d strongly advise finding such a person if you go down this path.

      Finally: it’s a bit like The X-Files, you don’t know how high up the conspiracy goes. I had good cause to believe that my boss’s boss would treat me fairly. And (lucky for me) she did. This is another thing a mentor can help with: figuring how high up you need to go. Legend has it that people have gone straight to our CEO over matters of serious corruption. I believe it. But if I felt I had to go to that extent, I would almost certainly engage a lawyer. Remember the guy who turned in the UNABOMBER? He got a lawyer first. And I’ll bet you some serious money that he’s never regretted it.

  22. Pizza Lover*

    So I had an interview on Wednesday (yay!) but I’m not feeling very enthused about the organization now that I’ve had a closer look. It seems like there’s a poor work/life balance and even though I was answering all of the questions and not stumbling on myself, I kept feeling like I wasn’t giving them the answers that they were looking for. They kept fishing, as though they didn’t really believe me or like they doubted my capabilities, even though they were interviewing me and clearly must have thought me qualified.

    I’m so torn – if they offer me the position, I feel like it’s a great career move. I’m a recent grad so this is basically exactly what I want right now because my current job (although I love it) provides no career growth whatsoever. Not to mention the fact that my supervisor here knows this but takes advantage of my skills. At the same time, though, I’m hesitant to enter a situation where I may not be happy just for the prospect of (good!) money. Any advice? I think I know where I stand, but I’d love to get some opinions from everyone else. I don’t want to leave a job that I essentially love but has no space for growth for one where I have a more managerial position, yet an unhappy life overall.

    1. Helen*

      If they offer you the job, I would ask to come in again, get a tour of the place (get a sense of the mood of the people there), and speak with people who have your job and who you’d be working with. If you still get a bad vibe, then stay with the job you love and wait for a better opportunity to come along.

      1. Pizza Lover*

        Thank you! I will definitely try to do this if they follow up and invite me in for another interview and/or offer me the position.

    2. Inconnu*

      If your situation allows for it, wait until a job comes up that you know you’ll enjoy doing. I recently relocated for a job with more pay that’s a managerial position, but I’m starting to regret it. I also left a job that I loved doing, but didn’t pay as much.

    3. ScottySmalls*

      I want to say that if you love your current job, then don’t settle for one where you have the strong feeling that you’ll be a miserable manager. Keep looking for one that has the work-life balance you want and the opportunity to advance. Basically, don’t feel rushed to move on. And depending on how long you’ve been at current job, you could at least negotiate a pay that is more in line with your responsibilities.

      1. Pizza Lover*

        I needed to hear this, thank you. I actually have negotiated a raise but even with this, it’s difficult to see the silver lining for other reasons that were not mentioned. So I certainly do love my job but I know that I’m still underpaid and overworked, even with the raise. My student loans will kick in soon and of course love doesn’t pay the bills, so I feel forced to job hunt. I have a strong sense that things may change if I try to give in my two weeks because of another offer, but by then it may be too late.

        1. Scotty_Smalls*

          I feel you Pizza Lover. I’m got to start a job search again because I only have a part time and my student loans have kicked in.

          Also, if you have your student loans through the DOE you can renegotiate your repayment plan according to what your currently earning. That might help. In any case, good luck

      2. Helen*

        Information from all job seekers would be appreciated, but I’m especially interested in hearing from fellow unemployed job seekers. What would you say is the rate at which you get an interview (phone or in person)? Approximately how many jobs do you apply to weekly? Also, what is your experience level?

        I’m not at my home computer, so I can’t share my “stats”. I will say though that there was a lot of radio silence in January but that it’s picked up since.

  23. Great Pains*

    I need help from the IT people and the tech savvy.

    My company converted our system from an old, simple software to a more sophisticated and robust platform. There have been growing pains and getting accustomed to the new way of doing things. We also have several add-ons that tie into the new system to link more of our information together. Long story short is that it’s more complicated but we can do so much more than the old system.

    Every time, or very often, when there is an update to one of the add-ons there is an issue caused in the main system. Nothing major but things like invoices not being grouped correctly, e-mail options being changed, or vendor types switching. Things that can annoy our clients but aren’t huge disasters. These issues are resolved and everything is fine until the next issue comes up a few weeks later. We take the issues seriously because we have a strong culture of customer commitment, and we try to stay on top of the issues and the add-on vendors for fixes.

    A few users always refer to our “broken system” when complaining or talking about other issues. My question is does that rise to the level of a broken system, or is that par for the course when you have more sophisticated software? I just want to know if they’re over-reacting to this or I’m under-reacting. I tend to have the attitude of suck it up and do the best you can with what you have, but if these are serious red flags I want to react properly.

    1. Malissa*

      Can they run the updates in a test system and see it there are problem before rolling them out for real? I used to make my software vendors do this.

      3. Great Pains*

        That’s how it used to be done. However, the Affordable Care Act has caused a bit of a rush to push things out before being fully tested. That’s a great idea to work towards that again, though.

        1. Windchime*

          Ha, yep, I know exactly what you are talking about. Four years after implementing a sophisticated, complicated system (thanks to the ACA), people are still talking about all the things they had in the old system as compared to the new. Yes, it’s true that there are differences in functionality, but that doesn’t make this system “broken”. It makes it different.

          Side note: We have an analyst here who likes to call reports “broken” when the users decide that it should behave differently than the original specs. Sometimes it’s hard to remember that this analyst is on our team, because she will start writing up work items that say, “Fix the broken report; it should be doing [blah, blah, blah]” instead of , “Users are requesting the following change: [blah blah blah]”. I know it’s just semantics but it’s annoying.

          1. V. Meadowsweet*

            But it’s not just semantics!
            A report that is broken is a report that doesn’t work at all and needs to be fixed immediately, and that fix should fall within almost any maintenance contract.
            A report that users would like to work differently than was originally spec’d is a report that should be reviewed at some point, and depending on the review the changes may fall under maintenance or may require a change order or even a new report.
            Which might be why these are being recorded as ‘broken’ rather than ‘changes’…

      4. V. Meadowsweet*

        +1,476,992
        Test environments are hugely important. Sometimes things just run a little differently on the client’s machines.

    2. Hlyssande*

      I have problems like this in my own work, with an application that is used by our business units to request customer account creation/updates in the database.

      When someone doesn’t use the software very often, they may find those infrequent problems every single time they access it, so it appears to them that it is always broken in some way. How much time does it take for the userbase to adapt to the issue? Do the issues ever actually get fixed when they’re reported or is it an endless stream of workarounds that become the new normal process? The users’ impressions make a lot of difference in how open they are to using the software.

      I think an incident every few weeks is too often to call any sort of software or database fully stable, especially when you’re getting complaints about it always being broken. Whoever is maintaining your software really needs to investigate why things break and how it can be prevented in the future – and that should be a very high priority.

      As our application became more stable – even if the issues were relatively infrequent – the complaints we received was greatly reduced. Nowadays, there is much less negativity from the users when they’re reporting an issue because we’ve proven that we’re as on top of it as we can be and will get things fixed quickly.

      1. Great Pains*

        It almost seems like a domino effect. One hot fix causes a different issue a few weeks later. As I mentioned up-thread it has to do with the ACA, so I think the vendor is overwhelmed and pushing hard to roll out updates/fixes as soon as possible.

        1. Hlyssande*

          Ouch!

          Sounds like the vendor needs more headcount or support or…something to slow down and fully test it to the best of their abilities.

          At least ours is in house and we can push back if needed.

        2. Judy*

          99 bugs in our code, 99 bugs in our code, take one out, compile it again, 104 bugs in our code.

          To the tune of 99 bottles of beer. ;)

    3. Gene*

      Red Flags. This is a sign that your vendors aren’t adequately testing the updates prior to roll-out and you need to ride them unmercilessly until they do. So far, it sounds like the problems have been relatively minor, but one could make the system completely unusable.

      Think of the ACA enrollment “glitches”; almost every one of those was caused by inadequate load testing.

      If your users are customers and are complaining about the “broken system”, that’s impetus to take their business elsewhere.

      1. Ezri*

        This. Software rollout is NOT a substitute for QA. An occasional problem is understandable, but glitches during every rollout are not. If there is a consistent issue with settings being changed around on rollout, the software vendor needs to be providing alerts to let their users know (ideally their updates wouldn’t muck up existing settings, but sometimes there’s no way around it).

    4. AndersonDarling*

      When Old Company went to SAP, there was a glitch that prevented vendors from getting paid and their invoices were lost in the system. We were sued by a handful of the vendors. I would call that “broken.”
      Not having access to a record for two hours, that’s an inconvenience.
      Bottom line, if your IT folks are taking issues seriously and solving the problems, then it is just growing pains. And be grateful that you have a great IT team, it could be so much worse. :)

    5. Ann Furthermore*

      If it’s a new, unique issue each time, then I would call it growing pains. It sounds like the change was recent. There is always a period of stabilization, and then usually things calm down.

      If it’s the same issue each time, then yeah, that’s a problem, and someone in the IT group isn’t being thorough enough with their testing, regression testing, solution design, etc.

    6. Great Pains*

      Great replies. Love hearing the different points of view. The new system went live about a year and a half ago, which we still have a few hiccups here and there. The main issue is that one vendor provides an add-in that has to do with our Affordable Care Act tracking/surcharges, which has caused a slew of new issues. I don’t know if that changes opinions, or clarifies a bit more.

      1. Hlyssande*

        If the vendor isn’t fully testing the add-in before rolling out an update, is there any other company who can do the same thing for you? It sounds like they’re causing lots of problems, which to me would say it’s time to look for another vendor.

      2. ThursdaysGeek*

        In addition to trying to get that vendor to do a better job of testing, and trying to set up your own testing area (which may not be possible*), plan on communicating with your users more before any upgrades. If an upgrade comes from this vendor, let your users know that ahead of time, and specifically ask them to be on the lookout for problems. Involve them in finding the problems, fix them as quickly as possible, so you they know you care and are frustrated by this situation too.

        *Sometimes a test area means additional servers, software licenses, extra time, and people to support it. While I highly recommend a test area, sometimes that is a more long term solution to a problem that also needs a quick solution.

    7. Observer*

      I’d say a little bit of both. If breakdowns are a fairly common thing, and it sounds like this is the case, you do have a problem. On the other hand, it doesn’t sound like it rises to the level of “broken system”. I would say, that you need to communicate more proactively about things. But, FIRST, you need to do something to reduce the problem and make that part of your communications.

      For instance, create a “sandbox” which is a copy of your oive system and apply the upgrades / changes to that and test (which real data that has been copied from the live system.) A lot of places don’t do that, but since this seems to be an ongoing problem you could save yourself a lot of trouble by catching these issues before staff have to deal with them while trying to get their work done.

      You also may want to talk to the vendor of the main system about the issue.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Speaking as an end user with a new system… I will fight through 10 problems on my own to solve the problems. By the time that 11th problem comes along, brain fatigue has fully set it.

      Then I get told that I should call when I have an issue. I. don’t. have. time. It is quicker for me to fuss around and figure out something. I do this several times a day. (I already have a library of workarounds in my head for some recurring issues, so I do not include those issues that have workarounds here.)

      One issue I called on. Not exaggerating. I have 70 hours into this issue. I have called a half dozen people. It’s still not fixed. My boss needs me working on other things so I cannot go back to it. The problem remains there.

      I call this broken. I mean it in the same way you would describe a car with a 100 problems as broken. There is so much wrong and new things are occurring every day. Nothing is fatal, but everything just takes so. very. long. A person with more knowledge than me could work with this. The sad thing is tech tells me that I do better than many of the people who call them.

      I don’t think your products have this severe a problem. But I do think encouraging the customer to expand on what they mean by the word “broken” would be helpful. Not an easy question to work into ordinary conversation, but it might provide you with some insight. It could be that they just need some encouragement that your folks are constantly improving the product.
      OTH, it could be that the people who complain the most just don’t like any sort of change and there is no appeasing them. It’s hard to pick out who this applies to.

  24. Stumped*

    How do you handle an employee that voluntarily works a ton of extra overtime, refuses to have extra help brought in, and then complains they don’t receive enough praise (mostly in the form of a big bonus or large raise)?

    They are a good performer but not a superstar, and they do receive a few extra perks on occasion like a small bonus, paid lunch, and extra time off when needed. Honestly, the position they hold is important but doesn’t have a lot of requirements to learn how to do.

    1. LCL*

      If they are paid hourly, limit how much overtime they can work.
      If they are exempt, decide how much time they are allowed to work extra and set a limit.

    2. fposte*

      My read from what you’re describing is that this is an employee who really wants more money. She’s working more to get it, she’s asking for it, it’s all about making more money.

      So I’d be straight and say that you value her contribution, the compensation she’s getting is what she can expect in the future. (I don’t know whether you want to bring in extra help rather than pay her more OT, but I’m not seeing why she gets to “refuse” that.) And if she comes back to the topic, remind her that you’ve told her what the situation is, and that unless she has a specific suggestion that would change it you’re asking that the complaints stop.

      2. Mike C.*

        Along these lines, ask yourself the following – What would have to change before you started to pay them more? Maybe develop some other skills and transition into a new role? Simply perform at a better rate? (Make that rate known if that’s the case!) Something else entirely?

        1. fposte*

          Oh, good point–if there is something she could do to make herself eligible for an increase, that’s a great thing to tell her.

      3. Stumped*

        I’m the new department manager walking into this situation, so I’ve been trying to narrow down why this person keeps bringing up lack of recognition. The longer I’ve been here the more I agree with fposte that it seems to be all about the money. To be honest, there’s no real progression path for this person and not many other skills to learn. Their pay is their pay with only annual raises, and no justification for a huge increase.

        As for being able to refuse additional help, that’s a whole ‘nother story, and my bosses decision.

        1. Student*

          Some people actually just really want you to pay attention to them. I’m getting that vibe from your description, instead of fposte’s theory of the employee wanting more money. I think it’s worthwhile to have fposte’s suggested conversation with her about compensation, though, in case I’m wrong.

          If, however, this employee really does want extra recognition, and you think the work she’s doing is worth indulging that, then do it. It’s cheap, and it keeps an employee happy. Evaluate whether that is likely to undermine moral elsewhere, of course, or whether such recognition needs to be shown to others as well to prevent causing resentment.

          I work with a guy like this. He knows he isn’t getting any more money beyond small annual cost-of-living raises, and he’s unlikely to get promotions beyond his current job. He really wants someone to pay attention to him. He loves it. He especially wants Important People, like the boss, to pay attention to him and tell him what a self-sacrificing savior he is. He really likes attention, really wants to be thanked, and even likes those kitchy tokens of appreciation that everyone else throws in a drawer and ignores. He wants someone to recognize his extra, unsolicited hours and say, “Wow, you put a lot of time into this, it’s great.” His work is good enough that I don’t mind giving him the attention and praise he’s fishing for, within certain limitations so that it doesn’t take up too much of my time.

    3. Camellia*

      Hmm, I would find out if they are accomplishing more with all this overtime, if they need it to get their regular work done, or if they are just spreading their work out to fill the hours to make themselves look good. Especially if this person is refusing help – to me that is a big red flag.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      You could point out that you never authorized the overtime and she is doing that on her own.

      I have to wonder why no one else is putting in equivalent hours. Maybe you could lighten her workload. Just let her know that you are pulling things off of her so that she does not feel she has to work the crazy hours. Then remind her there is no extra money in the wings and the best you can do is spread her work out among others.

  25. there's no such thing as a bibliographic emergency*

    I have a question about academic contracts – I’ve read over mine and can’t really figure it out. It reads in part, “the initial hire is for two and one half years with reappointment annually…”
    So, I get that I have annual reviews, but the real kicker question I have is what if I leave during that 2.5 year period? Is that problematic? Is this more about their commitment to me, rather than my commitment to them? Both?

    Thanks for any thoughts!

    1. GOG11*

      I work in higher ed and my institution doesn’t use this arrangement that I know of, so I can’t speak to that, but if there is someone you work with who could be discreet about this sort of thing, try asking them. “I’m not planning on leaving, but I was curious to know what happens if someone has to leave before the end of the 2.5 year period.” When I want to ask a question without raising any flags, that’s what I do, but I’ve been here a while and I’m not sure you have that kind of relationship with anyone where you are yet.

      You could also try looking at HR documentation, employee handbooks, etc.

    2. danr*

      Not on your query, but my old company had bibliographic emergencies all the time. If we didn’t produce the data, it just wasn’t there. This was in the days before electronic access was ubiquitous.

        1. there's no such thing as a bibliographic emergency*

          I get that there is the potential for consequences, etc. I just like this saying personally because it helps to remind me that it generally isn’t something worth panicking over. Lives aren’t at stake.

    4. EmilyG*

      Hard to say w/o more details but I’m a librarian who used to have a document like this. I don’t recall having to sign mine so I didn’t think of it as a contract per se. I see it as setting an expectation of how long you have the job given good performance. It’s not an appointment that you can assume lasts forever, and there are annual performance reviews where you could wash out. In my library it definitely didn’t mean that you were committing to staying, although with the job market, most did. I’m finding this hard to explain but when I had a document like this, it sort of meant “you have a job according to normal rules of being let go or quitting, but don’t be shocked if, after 2.5 years, we do some kind of re-alignment and this position no longer exists.”

      1. there's no such thing as a bibliographic emergency*

        Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I am tenure-track. EmilyG, I think you’ve hit on what I find so odd about it…It’s very much, ‘yes, you have a job for this amount of time, under normal conditions, presuming you pass your annual review, unless we decide to let you go.’ So…it doesn’t mean much of anything then. And it definitely doesn’t include any language about my commitment to them. I was just nervous about talking to someone that approached me about a potential job, and then having it turn out that I’m legitimately not supposed to leave. But I think I’m in the clear if I do decide to pursue it.

        Thanks again!

    5. Student*

      You aren’t an indentured servant (I hope). Therefore, it’s their commitment to you; it’s not your commitment to them. You can leave whenever you want. Most places appreciate it if you plan to stick around for a couple of years.

      You have a job for 2.5 years, as long as you don’t make major screw-ups. Then, you may no longer have a job, or you may get a job extension. You are a long-term temp or a perma-temp.

      This is their way of saying that you probably shouldn’t buy a house in the area.

      There may be other items where it does matter when you leave. For example, if they paid for any moving expenses, signing bonuses, that kind of thing, you may have to repay them if you quit within X time of being hired, usually within 1 year. That needs to be explicitly spelled out on the paperwork to be enforceable, though. You can’t imply it with the phrasing you’ve used here.

  26. Alison with one L*

    I’m going to my first conference next week. I have been out of undergrad and in my first job for over a year now. I know several contacts who will be at the conference already, but I really want to network well and create meaningful connections.

    Any tips or ideas for my first conference? What can I do to make the most of this experience?

    Thanks in advance!

    1. saro*

      If you get the person’s business card, write when and where you met her. Also note any relevant info such as: we talked about chocolate teapots. She’s interested in branching out to caramel cups.

      I know it’s a little card but you can get alot of info on the back! It’s really helpful im situations where you meet many people at once. Then you can follow up easily when you get home.

    2. kristinyc*

      Have fun, and go to any of the social events that are there (cocktail hours, dinners, whatever).

      Talk to people: If you’re awkward like me and don’t want to talk about yourself a ton, just ask people a lot of questions about their businesses. Ask people how they’re enjoying the conference, what they’ve found interesting (and be ready to talk about things you’ve liked about it as well). If it’s in a city you’ve never traveled to, ask other people about the city. Obviously, have business cards available – everyone will expect that. If you really intend to follow up with someone after exchanging business cards, it’s helpful to write notes to yourself on their business card about what you discussed. After the conference, go through your stack of cards and follow up with people or connect with them on LinkedIn if it feels appropriate.

      At drinking events: If there are a lot of drinking events and you don’t want to drink, order a seltzer with a lime in it. It’ll look like an alcoholic drink, and most people won’t question it. I went to a conference a few months ago that had 4 drinking events every night that I was expected to attend (I spoke at the conference and sponsored paid for me to be there, so I had to attend everything), and I drank a lot of seltzer because I just couldn’t handle that many actual drinks. One night there was an after-party after the previous 3, and I was too tired to go, so I just said I was going back to my room because my panel was the next morning and I wanted some time to prepare for me panel and get some rest. Someone who’s a really big deal in the industry was nearby when I said that to my friends, and I saw an utter look of respect on his face afterwards. Just keep in mind that people may be watching what you do. It’s okay to drink at events there, but definitely know your limits and drink wayyyyyyy less than you might under other social circumstances.

      In general, unless a part of the conference is notably BAD, I try to come across as enthusiastic and interested in everything that’s going on there when I’m talking to new people at conferences. (You don’t want to start a conversation with, “Can you believe how terrible that presentation was?!?!” and discover the person you’re talking to works at the company!) A simple, “What did you think about what [a speaker] had to say about [topic]?” is a great way to break the ice.

      Have fun!

    4. Sunflower*

      I go to tons of conferences(as the manager) and I’d second all of kristinyc’s suggestions.

      Also
      – Go over the agenda and do a brief skim of latest news and what’s happening. Read the speaker’s/presenters bios and their companies and experience(check their website or Linkedin). Figure out who/what you’re most interested in and write up some questions you want to know about.
      – Ask LOTS of questions. I can’t stress this enough. Speakers are way more interested in wanting to know what you want to know as opposed to just talking to the crowd.
      – Definitely go to all the social events. Don’t be afraid to let the conversation get away from the conference topic at hand. Some people will be tired of talking about the topic all day and will want to chat about other things.

      Reading over what Allison linked to suggestions from there that are good
      Clothing- comfy shoes and layers. It can be sweltering or freezing so be prepared for both. You’ll be on your feet more than you expect.
      Feel free to step away from the conference for a short break if you need to

      Good luck and have fun!

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        “Clothing- comfy shoes and layers. It can be sweltering or freezing so be prepared for both. You’ll be on your feet more than you expect.”

        Oh yes. I do conference work for a living and heating/cooling in large event spaces is like trying to turn a cruise ship. It will be freezing because they crank the AC before the people show up because a lot of people’s body heat raises the temperature of a room. People complain it’s too cold, they turn it down and then everyone complains it’s too hot. Wash, rinse, repeat. Also, depending on where the space is, it can be enormous. The meeting spaces in Vegas, for example, you can walk a mile just getting to the venue. Your favourite heels might be super cute, but after walking that far, you will be in pain.

        Another thing to keep in mind is that usually the washroom spaces for women are not sufficient for the crowds (it really depends on what industry you’re in and amount of attendees), so that 15 minute break between sessions, you could spend all/most of that time waiting to pee. If you can manage your sessions or sneak out, you can avoid this and still have time to get a coffee and snack when they’re out (which usually isn’t all day).

        As for the networking, haven’t a clue. That’s something I need to work on IRL myself. I work behind the scenes so I can’t tell you how it works for the attendees.

    5. Hillary*

      Take notes as you go and write up a summary when you’re back at work. It might be a powerpoint for your manager or just for yourself, but it’s always helped me to distill that knowledge after the fact.

      Also, bring an absurd number of business cards. They don’t take up a lot of space and it stinks to run out of them when you’re meeting interesting people. I usually just throw a new box in my suitcase.

    6. notfunny*

      If you are an introvert, try to find a little bit of time for yourself — to recharge so that you can make the most of your experience talking with people. If you have to eat lunch by yourself one of the days or take a break when there are no sessions that are of interest, DO IT. Conferences started being better for me once I figured out that I need a little break at some point.

  27. Windchime*

    I am dealing with an extremely condescending coworker. He was hired in a Quality Assurance role, which means he (along with another QA person) will be checking over my teapots before they head out the door to the customers.

    Several of us on my team had concerns before we hired him, because he was vastly over-qualified for the role. He has already proven our concerns to be valid; he is clearly not interested in doing QA because he spends much of his time preparing Power Point slides on lessons he wants to teach our team and on writing fancy reports for the internal team that are unnecessary. He applied for a different, more senior role when he had only been with our company for a few weeks. This was after he had assured us that he was perfectly fine taking on a QA role in his interview (which is what all overqualified people are going to say if they are desperate for a job).

    A few days ago, we had a team meeting where we were discussing a technical issue and trying to come up with the best way to solve it. (We have a very democratic team). Mr QA made a suggestion that we do a very, very basic thing that we all already do (think along the lines of “you must melt the chocolate before you can pour it into a mold”) , and I said something non-committal like ,”Hmmm”. He took that to mean that I didn’t understand so he began to explain to me, in front of the team, exactly how to do this very basic technical thing. It was the equivalent of saying, “If you want to type into a Word document, you must press your fingers on the keys.” He also looks through people’s work and picks out tiny issues that are style issues, not quality issues; for instance, Fred might use a flat butter knife to smooth his chocolate while Susan uses a plastic straight edge. Both result in smooth chocolate and both take the same amount of time. Because he used a putty knife at his old place, he will turn Fred and Susan’s work back over to them, claiming that they did it incorrectly because they didn’t use the tool that was preferred at his own place of work.

    After days of this kind of stuff, I finally had enough and said, “Let me be clear. I fully understand how to do [basic task] and I know what it’s for.” He was finally quiet but it was so annoying. In the early days, he had a habit of violating my personal space by standing WAY too close; thankfully, he’s not doing that any longer.

    Sorry for the long story. What it boils down to is that this guy is extremely condescending. He has managed to offend 90% of the team several times, but it looks like he is here for the long haul. My question is: How do I learn to stop letting it bother me? I’m struggling to remain professional while interacting with this smug know-it-all. I don’t want to start acting like a jerk back to him, because then the team will have two jerks on it!

    1. BadPlanning*

      Can you turn it into a game and/or amusement for yourself? Not that you should toy with him or laugh at him — but mentally add to your list of The Most Absurdly Basic Things Coworker Pointed Out This Week.

      2. Clever Name*

        I would be tempted to play dumb. Exceedingly and absurdly dumb. Ask how to use a stapler. How to sharpen a pencil. Then try not to laugh as he spends time detailing how to do these tasks. (I’m kind of a jerk)

    2. Mike C.*

      I work in QA, so maybe I can offer a different perspective or maybe some explanation.

      First off, there’s no excuse to treat anyone like crap, even if they do work in Production/Manufacturing/Engineering/etc. A big unspoken aspect of being a good QA person is diplomacy. Yes, I might be right with the rules, but if I’m a jackass about it, it’s going to make compliance that much harder.

      Secondly, what sort of regulatory/certification environment are you working in? Industry? Are you reporting to certain government agencies or private accreditation groups? I’m curious how important things like traceability or record keeping are to your workplace. I can think of several places where using the wrong tool is a huge quality issue, even if superficially the “results are the same”, but this is highly dependent on the workplace.

      1. Windchime*

        OK, the teapot analogy isn’t really working so I’ll just say it. We are in IT, and are doing ETL (Extract, Transform, and Load for those of you who aren’t in the biz) from source systems to the data warehouse. Many of us were new to data warehousing when the team formed a couple of years ago, but we are all experienced now (and I was doing SQL for about 10 years before I joined this team). A big part of my job is writing complicated SQL, both for the team and for the director of the department (the Director’s title is also Chief Data Scientist and he is no SQL beginner, either, but he will often off-load work to me under tight deadlines). I certainly don’t know everything about SQL, but I’m not a beginner. The topic he was lecturing me about in the team meeting was what a Left Outer Join is, and how they work. You know, the thing that you learn in day 1 in SQL class? Yeah. Really, really condescending.

        So the items that he is tasked with finding are things that might make a difference clinically and stuff like that. Like if we are importing all patients who have had diagnosis X; if we miss a patient, then that’s bad news and we need to fix that. If we have a process that takes 4 hours but could be reduced significantly by changing our syntax, then that’s a good thing to catch as well. If I am importing from a file and accidently missing a record, then obviously that’s a bug. But to ding someone for using ISNULL versus COALESCE? To assume that mid-career people are incapable of doing very, very basic things? It’s just so annoying.

        He is the second QA guy on our team. The first guy has been here about a year and he is invaluable. He finds lots of things for us to fix and I am grateful for him every day. He is diplomatic, fun to work with, and very precise in his work. I don’t have any problem with having a QA person; I’m glad that I’ve got someone watching my back and finding my mistakes.

        But this new guy is just grating on my nerves. He files bugs on style and hasn’t taken the time to learn our culture before jumping in to make bone-headed suggestions.

        1. Student*

          Presumably, there are specific QA guidelines or rules or tests that this guy is supposed to check for.

          If he bounces stuff back for things unrelated to the QA guide, ask him which QA test you failed specifically. You ought to require this kind of information as feedback, anyway. If he can’t cite an actual QA rule you’ve broken, then overrule his objection and tell him he has to actually pass or fail you on defined criteria. He doesn’t get to make up his own new QA criteria.

          If he does have the power to invent new QA criteria, then you’re pretty stuck. You have to explain the problem to your boss, that QA guy is trying to dictate how you work instead of doing his QA job. Your boss will either go fight this, or tell you to suck it up and abide by QA guy’s new rules.

      2. Labratnomore*

        This is a good point. I just assumed that it wasn’t a highly regulated industry from the wording, but in a place like I work using the wrong tool could be a major issue. Our procedures used to often have specifics written into them that didn’t need to be there, but it was in the procedure and if you wanted to do it different you had to revise the procedure along with the appropriate justification and approvals. We had issues with people that were new to the industry would perform the task not fully following the procedure then wonder why we were making a big deal about it since it turned out alright. Maybe he comes from a place that had better adherence to procedure than the current company?

        I do agree that he seems to have an issue with the way he presents himself though. Diplomacy is very important in any QA function and usually you get better results if you have conversations with people truly seeking to understand where they are coming from and why they proceeded in the way they did. If you have a good understanding of the people you are working with, then it is easy to work with them to improve the process. Acting like a know-it-all is a sure fire way to ensure that your ideas are dismissed no matter how good they are!

    3. Hlyssande*

      Also, who is managing him? If he is not doing his actual work, then isn’t that a performance issue that should be addressed?

      It sounds like you’ve already tried to address some of the condescension, but I hope that you’re willing/able to escalate if it doesn’t improve. You may need to.

        1. Windchime*

          Until recently, we all reported to the director. Just a few weeks after Mr. Bonehead QA was hired, one of our team members was promoted to manager. She has managed before and has a very strong track record of good management, but she is still in the early stages of assessing the team. So he basically joined the team while management was transitioning. She is aware of the situation and will be addressing it, hopefully soon.

          I just want to be professional about all this and don’t want to appear to be the person who is gunning for another person’s job, but it’s just so maddening.

          1. Hlyssande*

            I really hope she nips it in the bud as soon as possible, because it obviously having a clear effect on morale for your team AND he’s wasting time on meaningless issues that are only issues because he wants them to be.

          2. Schmitt*

            Here is a little bit of hope for you. We hired a guy about a month before a management transition – I was promoted over him. He was condescending, rude, fanatic about leaving on time without having addressed open issues, and the general consensus was that we would keep him around just long enough to find someone to replace him. The only thing he had going for him was that he was competent at the job. Personality? Communication? Hoo boy. He was complaining to other team members that he should have gotten my job – after one month with the company!!

            The first six months were really, really rough, but we set some hard rules and kept on him, and he made a pretty amazing turnaround. Four years later, he’s a valuable team member and while he’s not my favorite person, we have a good working relationship.

            I don’t remember any details; mostly, I just monitored his emails (we do everything with mailing groups) and nagged him about following up when he owed someone information. We did have several conversations with him along the lines of ‘you are going to work 9-6 now because when you work 8-5 you leave without answering open issues’ and ‘if you bullshit with a colleague for half an hour after lunch about general IT themes it does not count as paid time’ and ‘for god’s sake, man, wear some deodorant’.

            1. Windchime*

              Thank goodness we don’t have to worry about the deodorant issue. That would seriously push me over the edge.

              I think many of the problems arise from the fact that this guy is seriously over qualified. He has tons of experience at the Big Software Place in many roles. He got laid off from there, and said all the things you would expect an overqualified person to say; “I want to step back and have a better work/life balance”, “At this point of my career, I’m happy with a 9-5 job”, “No, seriously, I really love QA”. He needed and wanted a job and I get that, but this is why people don’t like to hire overqualified candidates; they think they should be running the joint on their second or 3rd week.

    4. CLT*

      So often I find that when people are being annoying they have no idea they are being annoying. We all have blind spots, and a person new to his job can be completely blind and trying to do the work before establishing a feel for the place. Imagine yourself in his shoes, blundering around and annoying people without realizing it, and then imagine what kind words from a kind co-worker would help you to see better… New people often need advice from people who have been around a while, even though they are subordinate in some way. The trick is finding the right words and the right tone to share what you know. Good luck! This is a tricky one!

      1. The Cosmic Avenger*

        This was kind of what I was thinking. Yes, he’s tone deaf and ignorant, but nothing about it sounds malicious, it sounds like he is trying to help, but f(l)ailing at it.

        Maybe you can suggest having him silently shadowing the team he does QA for for an hour or even a day each (depending on the size of the team), so he gets a feel for what you know and what you do? He shouldn’t assume that you don’t know what you’re doing, and he is overstepping boundaries, but those are issues that his supervisor has to address. I’m suggesting a parallel approach, in addition to or instead of someone higher up instructing him to modify his behavior, because you probably have more limited input into that approach.

        1. Windchime*

          This is a really good idea. I worry that it may be too late, since he has already been here for a couple of months but it is something I will suggest to his manager.

    5. TNTT*

      I unfortunately don’t have much advice, but I am amazed by your commitment to the chocolate teapot analogy here! Good work. Maybe if you pretend he’s talking about teapots it will bother you less?

    6. Anonsie*

      Oh god, the condescending explanation. I’ve worked with some guys where, if they told you they were going to put all their paperwork on the moon and you asked how they were going to get the papers up there, they’d sigh and slowly explain that the moon was a big round thing you might have seen in the sky sometimes.

      You don’t need to be a jerk, but you can just not smooth it over when he makes things weird so that he can actually feel the discomfort that’s rising out of this. A lot of time when dealing with someone like this people end up trying to play it off like it’s normal to avoid everything being awkward, but just letting it be awkward can sometimes do amazing things.

      1. Windchime*

        YES. This is a perfect explanation. I *know* what the moon is, but he has started off by assuming that we are all drooling idiots who barely know how to log into our workstations. I like the idea of letting the awkwardness just be awkward, but this guy really doesn’t seem to understand that things are awkward at all. The director had to actually speak to him because he kept trying to buy all the women lunch to thank them for doing things that are simple, daily things that we all do. Minutes before I left for my vacation, he helpfully informed me that, for a couple hundred dollars, I could probably upgrade my seat to First Class. I’m guessing he thought this might be my first trip on an airplane? But why would he assume that?

        The whole thing is just weird.

        1. Anonsie*

          Yeah he sounds like one of those people who just doesn’t read social cues. Which I sympathize with to some extent because I don’t either, really. The leaving it awkward thing sometimes does work on those types anyway, though, because it’s so unusual for people to let that happen it sometimes stands out to the offender anyway.

    7. Iro*

      What a conundrum!

      I would love to know what advice people have for how to diplomatically let someone know that you understand what they are talking about/cut the “training” short without sounding like a jerk yourself.

    8. NacSacJack*

      Consider saying, “Umm, thanks Jerry, I think we developers have got this. Appreciate your input. Remind him where he is and what his position is and where he stands in relation to you. Its a put down, but it draws big black circles around what is your responsibility and what his responsibilities are as well as his job duties. E.g. QA is supposed to find your mistakes, not help you fix them, nor train you in how to fix them. Good QA people often have technical skills and also have a lot of insight cause they see a lot of different code go by, but they should not be telling developers what to do. Someone has to remind him he was only hired for a small portion of his overall skillset.

      1. Windchime*

        Yeah, our original QA guy is just so very good at this. He is technically skilled, as written tons of automated scripts and other cools stuff that I, as a non-QA professional, wouldn’t have any idea how to implement. He is tactful and matter-of-fact and doesn’t try to teach us how to fix our own mistakes. But if I am having an issue that I need feedback on, I don’t hesitate to ask QA#1’s opinion because he’s very technically adept and is a good partner.

        New QA guy does seem to be anxious to get his hands on developement, which is totally not what he was hired for. I have actually said that in a meeting when he volunteered to do some programming; I said, “Actually, that should probably go to one of the developers.” Drawing the big black circle, as you put it.

        I’m struggling to be professional about this, but I am quickly approaching “bitch eating crackers” mode where this guy is concerned.

        1. "Nein! It's mine!" is just his line*

          I’d like to provide an alternative opinion, which is if you can ensure that it won’t get you fired or hurt your reputation, there is value to being confrontational about this person’s crap.

          I wouldn’t always suggest this, except that from what you wrote, I sense this is beyond merely being overqualified or some kind of quirk: to me, he sounds like something of a bully. I could be wrong.

          But if you think he’s a bully, and worse, he’s actively interfering with productivity, then you may want to consider taking some kind of action. I strongly suspect Alison has written columns on dealing with workplace bullies.

          1. Windchime*

            I’ve already spoken to the director about some of the stuff he was doing when he first came that made me and one other woman extremely uncomfortable (i.e., asking if he could take us out to lunch, standing WAY too close, and butting into every conversation we had). He has backed way off on that kind of behavior, thank goodness.

            I don’t think he’s a bully, but he is interfering with productivity. I think he is just a really big know-it-all and a pain in the ass.

      2. ThursdaysGeek*

        So, using the moon analogy above, when he starts to explain what the moon is, jump into what you really need from him: “Yes, but what I really need to know is whether the 2 stage solid rocket fuel is the best option or whether the more modern Mr. Fusion will get better long-term outcomes. Could you do some checking and let me know?” That gives him more clues for your level of technical expertise as well as letting him know what specifically you need from him.

        QA guy1 already knows what you need without your specifically asking, which is easier, but QA guy2 needs more training. When he starts explaining about left joins, explain back in technical detail what you specifically need from him, ignoring his primer.

        1. Windchime*

          Good advice; I will focus on doing that. It’s really hard to not come back with a snappy retort, but as my son advised me, “Don’t do that, Mom; then there will be two jerks in the meeting instead of one.” How did I get such a smart kid?

        2. Observer*

          And if he continues to explain about the moon, you might want to respond with “Why do you think I don’t know that? I’ve asked for theinformation I need, let’s please focus on that.” Or soemthing like that.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      FWIW, I think what you did was perfect. This is a person that does not understand subtleties. I think in order to gain any ground you will have to address things when you see them.

      “Please do not explain to me that the grass is green and the sky is blue. We are all adults here and it is presumed we all know that.”

      And this is the answer to how to keep yourself from going to “bitch eating crackers” stage. Don’t make everything the hill to die on, but pick out one or two habits that stand out and speak directly to those issues. Handle it the moment that you see it, do not carry it around for days.
      One way I gauge issues is if I see a particular behavior three times. Three is a magic number for me- I must decide if I will live with it, redirect it somehow or address it head on.

      I think a lot of times the real problem is not what the person is doing but that we don’t know how to handle it. If we don’t know, then we have to make a plan. Using my rule of three to narrow down what issues I will take on, I make my decision about a given habit. IF I decide to address it head on, I map out a plan of how I will address it. What will I say/do?

      This can get time consuming, but if you do it regularly you will get faster at it. And you will get more effective at it. You have already stopped him from standing close to you. Your reply in that meeting was perfect- it stopped him cold. So you are already rolling along here.

      Targeting the condescension, you can remind him that everyone here is familiar with X and he does not need to explain it. You can also redirect, “We do not need to have X explained, we need inputs for Unrelated Y over here that has us banging our heads against the wall.” I would try to do this in one-on-one conversations rather than in groups though, if at all possible. But if the entire group is rolling their eyes then that is a problem.

      Maybe you can enlist Good QA Guy to help New Guy assimilate more. New Guy cannot be helping Good QA Guy that much as things are now. So maybe he will be willing to help somehow.

      1. Windchime*

        Thanks, NSNR–this is good advice. I’m so glad I asked you guys! I’m getting lots of good feedback.

  28. BRR*

    I’m going through a problem right now where the quality of my work has slipped to below what is acceptable in my position. I’m currently being treated for depression, anxiety, and ADD and as my doctor tries different approaches my work quality has gone up and down with the effectiveness of treatment. My boss (who is amazing in every way) is not pleased with me right now though.

    I’m wondering if I should tell her because I feel like it’s a “it will get better situation.” But does this sound like an excuse? I was going to approach it by saying I’m being treated for a medical issue that involves the quality of work I am to produce. I’m at the point where I fear I will be put on a PIP soon so some advice would be amazing.

    1. Ali*

      This is happening to me right now, so I feel you, but I haven’t been formally diagnosed with anything. I just started to struggle with burnout and depression and it seeped my way into its work to the point where my boss did write me up. Like yours, he’s supportive but outlined that my work was not acceptable. Therapy somewhat helped me, even if it mostly showed me that I need to leave where I am now and start making plans for the future.

      Unfortunately, my job search is crawling and my boss claimed he would take more formal action against me, but still hasn’t followed up with it. So I’m stuck at this point.

    2. Lillie Lane*

      Oh boy, you have my sympathies and I’m sending good vibes. I’m on the cusp of this as well (without the solid therapy help…yet). I’m not sure how you could convey that it is a medical issue impacting productivity without insinuating that it involves mental health. This is something I’ve struggled with as well — how can you be honest and get help when you want to do well at your job, but there is a stigma associated with depression/anxiety/ADD?

      (Out if curiosity, do you mind sharing what has helped you so far?)

      1. BRR*

        I’m not terribly worried about a negative stigma, as I said my boss is awesome. If anything I would garner support, concern, and sympathy. But I just want to keep it private (however if it’s in my best interest to disclose this to my boss I do not mind).

        Here is the whole story which included what worked. I have previously been through treatment with therapy and medication which was very helpful. I then moved and discontinued everything and was fine for many years. I was fired from my first job partially due to bad management but partially due to some errors which I attribute to my lack of ability to focus on things.

        I got a great job after that and was noticing the same pattern. I sought treatment solely based on a medical standpoint (no therapy) because I honestly don’t know what I would talk about. I feel like I am only battling genetics at the point. I was first put on ADD medications (tried a couple and right now am on intuniv and stratera) and with the ability to focus I was able to do a lot better at work. My job involves a lot of reading and editing so the ability to focus is essential. For non medical help I found using a blank piece of paper to go line by line was the best tool ever. If not my eyes jump around the page and I miss stuff.

        I was still depressed though and my psychiatrist put me on an anti-depressant which made my depression worse as well as negated the effects of my ADD medication. So I was unmotivated (due to the depression) and couldn’t focus. My work quality slipped which made my already existing anxiety worse (not helped by previously being fired from my only full-time job in which I thought I was doing great at so I have some PTSD from that).

        The issue is with psychiatric drugs is so many take a while to kick in and also leave the system. So my period of time doing poor work has been many weeks. At least since the start of 2015.

        1. Lillie Lane*

          Thanks for sharing — that was helpful. Since you say your relationship with your boss is great, then maybe confiding in her would be helpful. Are there any work accommodations that you’ve identified that might help?

          1. BRR*

            My cubical is in a terrible location noise wise which makes it difficult to focus. Unfortunately I don’t think I can get an office though.

            1. Windchime*

              Would it help to wear headphones and use a white-noise app? I find that sometimes really helps me to stay focused. Yesterday, I even put a sign on the back of my chair that said, “Heads Down, please do not disturb.” It worked; nobody came into my cube while the sign was on the back of my chair.

    3. Mike C.*

      I think you need to have a private talk with your boss right away, you might be in need of a medical accommodation. If nothing else, I’m sure your boss will be relieved to see that there’s a reason all of this is happening.

      I’ve done the ADD medication dance and can’t imagine what it’s like dealing with depression and anxiety at the same time – though it’s possible that it’s the ADD that’s causing the latter.

      1. Damaska*

        Yes! I’m 90% sure that these issues are covered by the ADA, but the first step to dealing with it is to ask for an accommodation. There are quite possibly many ways they could work with you while you try to find the right combo of meds, but the first step is definitely to ask.

      2. Hlyssande*

        Yes, talk to the boss! Be proactive in scheduling that because it will seriously reassure the boss of your commitment and make it more likely that they’ll accommodate what you need without argument.

        I’ve done this with my supervisors whenever I know my work has been affected by mental health struggles and it was both a relief to get it off my chest and also made them happier to know what was going on.

      3. BRR*

        My doctor said that often times one causes the other (can’t focus, bad work, depression about bad work or anxiety about others seeing bad work). I seem to have both separately but they do affect one another.

      4. Labratnomore*

        I think it would be good to talk with your boss about this. I had a similar situation and it ended up in my review, but if I had talked to my boss I don’t think that would have happened.

        In my situation a lot of the depression was related to my work situation so that increased my fear of talking with my boss. I had been moved to a job I didn’t want (from one that I loved and had great growth potential) at about the time I was battling another round of depression. Then I started taking meds that really messed me up for several weeks and my mood was horrible. At the same time I was trying to work with my boss about the fact that I was not happy with my job. I think is she was aware of the meds issue we could have had much more productive dissections. There were many times when there was a meeting scheduled that I should have re-scheduled, and would have if my boss knew why I needed to, but didn’t and my mood ended up making me look so much more upset than I really was about the situation. Well of course because I didn’t handle the discussion as well as I should have with the meds messing with my brain, my review included the fact that I had a poor attitude.

    4. Anon Today*

      I just went through something very similar, and I have both good and bad news (from my own experience) for you.

      My work suffered for months, and I kept trying to get it under control on the work front… without tackling the underlying issues. Eventually, I couldn’t do it any more. I called my boss (over a weekend) and told her what was going on. She was incredibly gracious, told me to take a couple of days off to get my treatment plan worked out, and reorganized my work such that some of my colleagues could pick up my slack for a couple of weeks. That’s the good news. I truly could not have been better supported in the moment.

      The bad news is that my work had been, frankly, bad – and she had noticed and was deeply concerned. In the end, she concluded that her concerns were significant enough that she was not willing to move me into the new position we had been discussing for some time. I’m now changing jobs, because I don’t know that I could manage the slow climb back to the level of respect and trust that I would need to do my job well (and be eligible for great projects).

    5. fposte*

      If I were your manager I’d want to know. One, I’d like to be helpful to my staff, and two, I’d feel like a schmuck if I moved ahead with disciplinary procedures and didn’t know that there were health factors involved.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Find things to do that will work to make your outputs better.

          For example, maybe slow down a little bit and review things twice before moving on to the next part or next step.
          Once you map out your plan on what you will do let the boss know that you have a plan you are working with to improve your work. (Make sure you are using your plan, if it needs improvements then go ahead and tweak it.)

          Being able to talk about a plan helps the boss to see “Yep, OP thinks this is serious and has developed a serious response to it.”

          Pretend you are your boss. You have to explain to Big Boss why you are keeping OP when her work is falling off. If your boss can say to her boss, “OP came to me without my asking, and offered X and Y information. THEN she also offered a plan to deal with the situation. She seems to be working with her plan that she outlined for herself.” Big Boss is going to be pretty pleased about all this and leave your boss alone.

          Your plan does not have to be complex or Einstein brilliant. It does have to be real and be doable.

        2. been there done that*

          I’d definitely have a heart-to-heart with my boss. I understand that you don’t want it to sound like an excuse. I’m really not in a good position to know what works best with your boss, but you might want consider writing a statement and practicing delivery of it. No, don’t give the text to your boss! Just: you basically want to try to objectively summarize what’s going on, let them know that this is a personal situation but it’s reached a point where you feel obligated to let them know what’s up. Tell them what you’re doing to fix things, and be ready to tell them how long it’s going to take. Try to keep it to under five minutes, don’t go into excessive detail or apologies, say what needs to be said and then shut up and let them ask questions. Good luck with this.

    6. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      If you had worked on my team for awhile and I was used to depending on you for a certain quality of work, which slipped, I’d surely appreciate a “this is temporary and this is why” explanation. Doesn’t have to be all the gory or super personal details.

      What would be going on on the other end: I’d be racking my brains as to what could possibly be going on. I’d ignore the slip for a week or two or even a month because, hey, we’ve been together for while and you’ve always done good work and everybody’s allowed to have an off spot. As each week went by though, I’d feel the internal pressure mounting to address and solve the issue, going through every possible factor many times in my mind. When I finally did, I’ve learned enough to ask questions to the effect of, is there something going on with you I need to know about, but an earlier version of me might not have, for fear of prying.

      I take this stuff so seriously, more so when people have a previous great track record. It would be such a relief to have you reach out to me, because then I could plan. I might even be able to rearrange workload to let you catch your breath.

    7. HAnon*

      I would work hard to put on your best attitude, really try to excell with a couple of projects so you can get your boss in a good mood, and then pull her aside and say “Hey, I just wanted to let you know, I’ve started taking a new medication to manage a health issue. It has some strong side effects, so if I don’t seem like myself, that’s why. I’m committed to making sure that I continue doing a great job here supporting our team, but I just wanted to make you aware.”

      That way, she understands that there’s a medical issue you’re dealing with, but you don’t have to go into specifics about what it is, and if you’re making a lemon face, she won’t assume that you’re just annoyed by your work or something like that. But do make the effort to make yourself presentable and put your best foot forward as much as possible. I know it isn’t easy, but I’m saying this as someone who’s in the same boat (been on antidepressants for about 2 weeks and there is an adjustment period) and the conversation with my boss helped.

  29. LizB*

    I’m job-searching, and the majority of the positions that I’m looking at require the employee to have a car. I have a license and a clean driving record, but I don’t yet own a car; I’ve been saving up for one all year, and will be buying one before I start any new job. What should I say on applications or in interviews if this question comes up? I’m guessing it’s best to be up front and say I don’t have one now, but will have one by the time I start — is that likely to take me out of the running for a lot of positions?

    1. Fawn*

      Just say you have access to one. You can rent a car if there’s some overlap between when you start a job and when you are able to get a car. No big deal!

      1. Lamb*

        Don’t assume you can rent a car without checking what your local car rental companies require; aside from minimum age and needing to use a credit or debit card there’s usually an extra deposite required and some rental car companies run a credit check.
        It’s super lame to show up to rent a car you need only to find out that you don’t meet the requirements.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      The bottom line is that you need to be able to honestly say that you can arrive (and depart) work at the agreed upon hours.

      1. LizB*

        I can definitely do that. What makes it tricky is that a car is required for a lot of these positions because I would need to be driving around visiting clients, or potentially transporting them in my vehicle. I can honestly say I will have a vehicle that can do that by the time I start a new position — do you think that will be good enough?

        1. TotesMaGoats*

          As long as you have a vehicle before your first day of work, then you should be fine. The problem is going to be the what if. What if something falls through and you don’t have the car, what will you do then? Make sure you’ve planned for those things.

        2. Jennifer*

          Maybe not, or at least you would have to come off as SUPER EXCELLENT to make them pick you over someone who is just as good and already has a car, today. I think it would probably rule you out most of the time, though.

          Why aren’t you buying a car before applying for these car-requiring positions if you plan to buy one before starting the job?

          1. LizB*

            Because I’m broke. I’m saving up for a car with the money from my second job (part-time, on top of my main full-time job), and I’d like to save as much as I can before I buy so I can maybe get a used car from a dealership vs. a sketchy car from Craigslist. My current job is a contract position, so I won’t be starting a new job until the contract runs out in July, which gives me some time — I’m just looking around for potential jobs as early as possible, and noticing that lots of them have this car requirement.

            1. The Cosmic Avenger*

              It might reassure any interviewer who asks about a car if you give some specifics. Vague promises or mentions of “potential” can be red flags for some people. Would you maybe feel comfortable saying something like “I was considering a 2008 Honda Teapot at Carmax, but I am waiting because if I do not need to buy a vehicle for another three months I may be able to buy a 2009 Teapot with fewer miles on it”? See, something like that would communicate that you have definite, concrete plans, which I think would go a long way to allaying any concerns about your not currently having a vehicle.

              Some interviewers might also find this to be oversharing, but if they seem to be concerned about whether you have a vehicle or not, I think there’s a good chance that this approach might help in those cases.

  30. Anna*

    Dealing with some frustrations with our new finance director. Asked a straight forward question about budget, got told they wouldn’t be able to tell me until AFTER a deadline, but it would be okay because they would flag the purchase request. I went ahead and filled out a purchase request for a smaller amount and am now being told they don’t have a procedure for buying anything “that expensive” for my department. Really? I ordered something about the same amount last year and there wasn’t a problem at all.

    2. Observer*

      That’s why they have a new finance director. But the approrpiate response is not a refusal but creating the new procudure. What you should do is to ask for what you need to do to get this moved forward.

  31. Former Diet Coke Addict*

    Discovered this week that my boss has been stealing sales out of the territories of his salespeople. At least one many-thousands sale of mine and multiple from a coworker, just by never passing the leads to us and making sure we weren’t aware of them. When we did find out, because they’re in our territory and we saw the sales records, he said “Those are too complicated for you to handle” which is patently untrue.

    I have an interview week after next that I’m extremely qualified for, but the woman hasn’t set a time for me yet. Fingers crossed that I can leave the House of Flying Accusations.

      1. Former Diet Coke Addict*

        No. He’s the owner of the company, and HR is his wife. If I could, I definitely would.

        1. Ezri*

          The owner married to HR? I can’t see anything good coming out of that. :( Sorry to hear you’re dealing with it.

          1. TNTT*

            You wouldn’t believe how common this is! My old old job was set up this way, and it was a law firm. Hightailed it right out of there.

  32. Not a mom yet*

    My husband and I were planning to try for our first baby this summer, and he is also wanting to start up a freelance business around the same time. Are we nuts for doing this all at once? If he could stay home with the baby (with occasional babysitters filling in) and do work that would take some financial pressure off, but I’m not sure how feasible that really is. I’d love to hear any thoughts/experiences. If it matters, I currently make more than he does, and we could technically live off my salary alone, though it would be tight. But no way we could pay for full-time infant care if he doesn’t bring in at least as much as that costs (roughly $20k+/year in Chicago – eek!)

    1. MJH*

      The idea of trying to freelance with a newborn/baby/toddler is not a great one. You’re not going to get a lot of work done. If the goal is just a little bit of work on the side, or in the evenings when you are home, then that is doable.

      I have a friend who is a freelance writer and works from home all day every day. His wife works outside the home. Their daughter is in full-time daycare, because really, to run a business, you have to give it your full attention unless it really is a small side thing.

      And I feel your pain on the childcare front. Daycare costs take so much of one’s paycheck!

      1. Not a mom yet*

        Thanks. That’s kind of my instinct as well. It feels like a bit of a no-win though; since I do make more money there’s a little tension about the perception that my career is prioritized over his. So if I tell him it’s not a good time to start a business I don’t support him, but if he effectively ends up being a SAHD rather than being able to get the business started, then he will be upset that his career is stagnating because of it. Now this has become more of a marriage communication question than a work one!

        1. Judy*

          I know a family where the mom is an MD and the dad was an editor, wanting to be an author. He was a SAHD when the kids were little, but they did do 1/2 day or just a few days a week day care for the kids once they were 9 months to a year old. He did freelance editing and also worked on his writing while the kids were at daycare and later school. Now the oldest is driving, and dad is a published author. It can work, but not in the very short term.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      I wouldn’t hold off on any decisions just because you are going to start trying to have a baby. I speak from personal experience there. It took 3 years to finally have a child. I kept waiting it out, knowing I was trying and hoarding leave, and end the end I’m still stuck in a job that makes me angry. I sincerely hope that TTC is easy for you and wish a successful and healthy pregnancy but I wouldn’t halt other plans for it. Remember, even after you get pregnant you still have 9 months until you have to do anything. Start saving money and leave time now and plan for those contingencies.

      1. Not a mom yet*

        This is a really good point too; thank you. I’m trying to find that balance of living our lives, supporting my husband’s career, and making sure that we don’t go into financial ruin over this. Tough stuff!

      2. Samantha*

        I was coming here to say the same thing. Things don’t always happen when you think they will. I have also been stuck in a job I hated because I thought I would be getting pregnant any day and I too wanted to take advantage of my saved up leave and great insurance benefits. I hope all goes smoothly for you, Not a mom yet, but like TotesMaGoats said, don’t halt other plans under the assumption that all will go according to plan.

    3. Jules*

      I work from home occasionally but will not do that with an infant or toddler at home. The are needy. Not in a bad way. They just needy in the way younger children are needy. If my daughter is sick, I will work from home but chances are, unless she is medicated and passed out, it’s unlikely I’d get much done, so I’d rather work once she is in bed at night.
      When my husband was home with my daughter was an infant, she has a whole house to crawl but she still sticks close to his feet while he is at his desk. He wasn’t productive either and it gets frustrating. If you can schedule when work hours are and when are not work hours and plan for babysitting accordingly, that would work fine. But if he needs to put in a solid 8-10 hours a day, it can be challanging.

    4. Ann Furthermore*

      If your husband really wants to give it a shot, then daycare is almost certainly a must. But there are cheaper alternatives that are just as good or even better than a large daycare facility.

      We’ve had 2 daycare providers for our daughter, both women who run daycare centers out of their homes that are licensed by the state. The law states that there can be no more than 6 kids in the provider’s care at one time, and only 2 of them may be under the age of 2. We love this option because we feel that our daughter gets more attention and personalized care than she would at a huge daycare center. And best of all, the cost is $700 per month, although most do charge a bit more for newborns (up to age 2 I think).

      I could write all day about how fantastic our current provider is. She’s one of those people whose true talent is working with children, and it is her passion. She’s always got fun things planned for each day, especially in the summer: a trip to the park with a picnic, the library for story time, a craft, a trip to the zoo or the botanic gardens, sometimes it’s even just something as simple as a “bug hunt” in her backyard. This is in addition to working on things like reading and math with the other kids too. And there’s limited TV time at her house — she used to let the kids watch TV when she was fixing breakfast and lunch, but at a childcare seminar a couple years ago she learned about the “30 minutes of screen time per day” challenge from Michelle Obama, so she started just playing music instead. Now and then they do a movie day or may watch a show here and there, but that’s it. My daughter absolutely loves going to her house each day, and she is loved and well taken care of there. I never worry about her at all.

      I found both providers by going onto the state’s health and human services department website. There was a map where you could put in your address, and it would show you all the daycare providers in your area.

      If you do go this route, make sure you get someone licensed by the state. They have to follow meal guidelines, adhere to all the safety regulations, etc. There are people that list daycare services out on craigslist or Facebook, but you have idea who they are or if their idea of daycare is to plunk the kids in front of the TV all day long.

    5. VC*

      A friend in a similar position once told me that of sleep, childcare, and work, you get to pick two. You cannot do all three.

    6. Elizabeth*

      I’m going to say something that will sound harsh, but it comes from repeated ugly experiences.

      If someone doing freelance work presents a contract that indicates that they are also caring for a baby or small child at home, we will reject them. If I’m contracting for work, I need the work done. I don’t need someone whose attention will be constantly divided, because our work will always get less attention than a small person whose has immediate needs right next to them.

      If your husband really wants to make a go of his business, you both need to plan to treat it a full-time-plus job. Daycare is expensive, but failing at a business is, too.

    7. Student*

      That’s a terrible idea.

      You can’t care for a newborn and work at the same time. Newborns need a lot of attention and work. If the baby is premature (pretty common), or has any serious complications at birth, or you get twins (common if you use any fertility treatments), then the baby needs lots and lots of attention and work. Whoever cares for it is not going to be working, even part-time, for the first few months. Either someone stays home with the baby full-time for a while, or it’ll be cared for by a full-time infant daycare provider.

      There’s also insurance concerns. Is your job stable enough to supply insurance for you, your husband, and a potential baby?

      As to the cost question, there’s something to keep in mind beyond the immediate cost. There are long-term implications to taking off time to stay home and watch children. Even if he isn’t making $20k a year to offset the cost of childcare, is he on a job track that will eventually pay well? Staying home to care for a child takes him off that track and sets him back when he goes out to get a full-time job later. Staying on the job track might lead to a short-term loss, but a long-term financial gain in terms of career progression.

      There’s also retirement funds, including social security payments. There’s also tax implications: is anything childcare-related tax deductible to reduce the effective price tag for your family? Do you get better tax returns if he works vs doesn’t work?

      If he’s in a dead-end job, then taking time off to care for a child can easily be a net gain financially for the household. If he’s in a job with a low entry-level income but a good potential trajectory (grad school, law school, job with serious promotion potential, job where he is learning new and valuable skills that he can leverage in a few years), then you might be doing your family a disservice by choosing short-term finances over the long-term game plan.

    8. Student*

      Forgot to mention. You should treat the freelance job and the baby as two separate things until you’re pregnant and through the first trimester.

      It might take you years to have a child due to fertility issues. It might happen on your first try. You might get pregnant and go through miscarriage; you might discover health problems that lead to abortion or reconsidering having children. Lots and lots of things could happen between now and baby’s birth (including divorce). No matter what, there is a 9-month lag between actually getting pregnant and having to make a decision about childcare. At minimum, you are 9 months out from that decision. It sounds like you’re more than a year away, at best, from having a child to make care decisions for, from your plans to start trying in “the summer”.

      Similarly, it might take quite some time to spin up a freelance job, or your husband might be ready to jump into it tomorrow. If he’s a year into a freelance job before you even need to think about baby care issues, then you’ll have a whole new set of cost-benefit issues to weigh, compared to right now.

  33. SickRecentGrad (TMI)*

    I’m a recent grad in my first job out of college. I’ve been here a year. We get 5 sick days a year, but I didn’t use any last year (I had one cold and some occasional mild nausea/vomiting). This year so far, I’ve been sick with a cold since Monday night/Tuesday morning, and I’ve been coming into work every day because I feel like my manager will think I’m lying/faking sick. I don’t look sick. I learned in high school and college never to call out sick unless I can prove it, and I can’t prove it without showing my manager my gross nose mucus (just…no) or going to the doctor (I’m not going to the doctor for a cold). There was another day where I nearly threw up at work but it was a Friday afternoon, and I was positive my manager would think I was lying if I said I was sick on a Friday afternoon. I’m nauseated right now too and I’m alternately cold and sweating/overheating…and it’s another Friday.

    I just try to wash my hands often and use good sneezing technique so I don’t infect my coworkers. Of course, it’s still entirely possible I’m going to get a coworker sick. That’s why I’d rather work from home. I’m getting over this cold already so I won’t be sick on Monday, but for future reference, how do I tell my manager I’m sick in a way that he will actually believe? (He’s actually very reasonable and sane, not like some of the jerks or nutjobs we hear about on this blog, and has taken sick days himself… so I’m not sure why I’m convinced he’s not going to believe me.)

    Thanks!

    1. HigherEd Admin*

      I think you are over-thinking it. This is common for recent grads who I think are still in the mindset of proving to professors that they missed class or exams for legitimate reasons.

      You have sicks days. You’re allowed to use them. (In fact, PLEASE use them. Don’t get your coworkers sick.) Shoot your boss an email the night before or the morning of (or leave a voicemail if that’s your company culture) that says, “Hi Dave, I have come down with the cold that’s been going around and am not feeling well. I need to take a sick day today.”

      You can let your boss know how to reach you if necessary or whether or not you’ll be catching up on email from home (not always necessary), too. But you sick days. You get to use them.

    2. kristinyc*

      You say, “I’m feeling sick and won’t be able to come in today / Think it’s best that I go home right now so I don’t get anyone else sick. Here’s the status of [anything urgent that has to happen immediately]. I’ll try to check email a few times, and I’ll let you know if I’m not feeling well enough to come in tomorrow.” (Add/remove any of this based on what your company’s protocol is for calling in sick).

      Unless you’ve given them a reason to suspect you’d lie about it, they have every reason to trust you. They give you sick days for a reason. You’re an adult who can decide if you feel well enough to work. I hope you feel better!

    3. Not a mom yet*

      A reasonable manager isn’t going to make you prove anything, especially if you’re a good worker who does not have an attendance problem. I’ve never had a manager question a sick day. If you’re truly sick, call in sick!

    4. GOG11*

      I don’t think you SHOULD have to prove it, at least not if you don’t have a track record of abusing the system. And taking your allotted sick days when you’re sick isn’t abusing it. You’re an adult and a good employer will treat you like an adult who has good judgment and can gauge whether or not you should come in to work or take a sick day.

      Is this something you’ve heard and internalized or has your current boss given you any indication that he will handle your request in the way you describe? You may or may not be privy them, but if you have seen anything, how has he treated your coworkers’ requests to use sick time? I would think those should indicate how you should handle this more than what you’ve been told.

    5. KAZ2Y5*

      You need to adjust your thinking a little – for just being out 1-2 days you shouldn’t have to prove that you are sick. Where I worked before, you could take up to 2 days just by calling in but if you were gone 3 days or more, you had to have a drs note to come back (this was a hospital if that makes a difference). I would just follow whatever your policy at work is for calling in sick and stay home. And if you’ve been sneezing or coughing on everyone they may be glad for you to be at home ;-)

    6. Helen*

      ” I learned in high school and college never to call out sick unless I can prove it, and I can’t prove it without showing my manager my gross nose mucus”. Huh? I think this is all in your head. Just take a day off.

      2. Natalie*

        Well, it is definitely a thing in college, at least for exams. The policies at my university for sitting an alternate exam time (even on a non-emergency, planned ahead basis) are quite strict: documented illness, documented conflict with another class/exam, 4 or more exams on the same day, or documented car accident. Last semester I took an expensive cab to a midterm because documented public transportation trouble is not an acceptable reason to be late. You’re not allowed to attend the alternate exam time if you have to work!

        1. Ezri*

          I knew of a professor who was notoriously strict about attendance and exam times. Every semester he told a story of a student who panicked when his bus broke down on the way to an exam and frantically asked the bus company to call the professor so he wouldn’t fail. And he found that hilarious.

          I heard about that and vowed never to take one of his classes.

          1. Natalie*

            Ew, gross.

            I completely get that (most) students are at an age where they are learning to adult, but this kind of stringency takes it so far overboard that the effect seems to be the opposite. Students don’t learn to manage their own time and workload or how to be trusted so they don’t need doctor’s note for every little sniffle. And really, a student that fakes sick to take the test 24 hours later is probably still going to fail. (And I am personally incensed about not letting one take the alternate for work reasons – I have a 9-5 professional job. I can’t swap shifts or something.)

            1. Ezri*

              Here’s the thing with me – it’s not the professor’s job to teach students to adult. Adults have to be properly motivated by long-term negative consequences of their own volition (like failing a class because you skip all semester). The problem is that universities are micromanaging students almost as much as our parents did, which makes it even harder to transition to a more loosely-managed environment with more serious consequences. It’s also not healthy to teach a young adult that no one trusts them to act like one.

              1. fposte*

                Though the requiring an obituary thing isn’t hugely uncommon in the workplace either, so that doesn’t seem like such an outlier to me.

                1. Ezri*

                  That’s true, and some places require sick notes for single-day absences as well. And I think I’ve seen people on this site agree that employers should treat their employees like responsible adults. University policy has the same problem. Once I had to walk to the health center with strep throat and a 103 degree fever to get a note, all so I wouldn’t fail a midterm.

                  They go to such lengths to stop people gaming the system that people who don’t end up getting punished. I see the logic for the rules, but it really sucks to be under them.

              2. Natalie*

                Oh, I definitely agree that it’s not a university’s job to teach students to be adults. I see the value of a university recognizing that they’re dealing with proto-adults and modifying their approach, but as it stands now they seem to step into a parent role. Except they have 40,000 children and don’t actually know any of them.

                1. Ezri*

                  I agree – college is an in-between step for many young adults, but sometimes it seems too skewed towards treating them like kids. They need to have a better balance.

        2. SickRecentGrad*

          Yeah, it was the same at my school and sometimes the alternate time was the next semester, so 4-6 months away. You’d have to delay completion of the credit for 4-6 months if you were sick.

          People showed up leaking out of every orifice.

        3. Anx*

          I found out my grandmother had day the day of my organic chemistry and physics exam. Because of some specific family issues, I felt incredibly distracted and anxious after hearing the news and I hadn’t had much sleep the night before. There was absolutely no rescheduling. I ended up having to be walked to the bathroom during one exam (no leaving the lecture hall on your own) to throw up while a TA waited outside. I got an F on both and failed the classes. I kind of wish I just threw up in the lecture hall, looking back.

      3. Hlyssande*

        I agree with Natalie, it is definitely a thing in high school/college for a lot of people.

        For college absences, not so much, but to withdraw from a class because I literally could not focus on the words on the page (influenza for real) I had to jump through a lot of hoops because the on site nurses told me they wouldn’t approve the drop for a cough.

        In high school, the only way they would call your parents to go home sick was if you had a fever or if you were outright puking. Period.

        1. Anonsie*

          Oh yeah, I had to withdraw from a drawing class in college (which was a funsies elective I took for my own hobby) because I was in a horrible car accident and was badly injured and unable to get to class for a week. The professor refused to speak to me about it, period, and when I finally went to her office after a class with all the documentation from my accident and hospitalization she put in a request to remove me from the class the next day*.

          *My school had a thing where a professor could contact the uni to have them notify you that you should withdraw from the course if you didn’t want an F. It didn’t force you out but if you chose to not withdraw you would fail.

          1. Hlyssande*

            Wow, no medical withdrawal? That’s what I was able to do without it affecting grades. We also had a system where the teacher could recommend withdrawal just like yours.

            In my college, missing a day or two of class was a HUGE deal because of the course set up – one class every 3.5 weeks, then a long weekend, then new class for 3.5 weeks. It was awesome, but getting sick enough to be unable to read for a few days (in the philosophy in literature class I’d been dying to take) would have destroyed my grades if they hadn’t let me withdraw. And the nurses did…after my local doc gave them a very stern note and lecture.

            A girl I knew in high school was forced to fail her college classes when her sister died in a car accident while she was driving (bad timing – sister had unbuckled to get something out of the backseat just as a deer decided to cross). It was obviously extremely rough on her and they wouldn’t let her withdraw or delay the exams due to previous attendance/grade problems. I can see their point, but I was horrified on her behalf.

            1. Anonsie*

              Nope, it was up to the individual professor’s discretion whether to excuse or accommodate health related issues. Some specific provisions were given for disabilities or certain emergencies but it was not easy to hit those boxes and they were only marginally beneficial. You could get extras like being allowed to withdraw past the usual deadline, for example, but it was still like a regular withdrawal.

              1. Hlyssande*

                Wow, that really sucks! How is a severe accident with injury not immediate grounds for medical withdrawal? Or an emergency?

                1. Anonsie*

                  Well, it does. You just don’t get anything special for it. I was allowed to withdraw with a W on my transcript, that’s about it. I guess the policy is mostly “emergencies are your problem.”

            3. Kyrielle*

              Ah, the block plan. Where what would otherwise be a trivial illness, can kill the two days you had to read the book and write the paper. (I, uh, may have had that experience during one of my Spanish lit courses. Except my BS paper wasn’t totally incoherent and got me a C, so…count my blessings there.)

            4. little Cindy Lou who*

              Ooh some profs really need to pull their heads out of their rears and find where they stashed their hearts in these cases.

              I had 2 family deaths in one semester (grandpa and uncle, one on each side of the family). All of my other professors were absolutely understanding, most didn’t even ask for proof, but one real choice jerk point-blank refused to yield on his no absence policy even when I handed him the funeral prayer cards and obituaries, and he dropped my grade by 2 letters.

      4. Ezri*

        I have no problem understanding why she thinks this way. In college and high school, no one EVER believes you are really sick. It gets you into the habit of working through it, and it’s very bizarre to go from that to a corporate setting where people can stay at home.

        I still feel weird about using sick days, and I’m a year out of college. Being able to tell your boss ‘I’m sick today’ and have them say ‘Okay, see you tomorrow’ is like the Twilight Zone.

      5. SickRecentGrad*

        I’m not actually going to show anyone the mucus, that’s why I put “just…no” literally right after that sentence you quoted.

        That I had to prove illness in high school and college is perhaps the only part of this that is NOT in my head!

      6. Anonsie*

        Ohhh no it’s not. I have a huge complex about taking sick days that was beaten into my head from a lot of really unreasonable teachers and professors (and service sector bosses) too. It ruined my perspective on when it’s ok to take a sick day for many years after uni.

        Or any off days, actually. I went to two funerals in my academic career (10 years apart) and both times at least one instructor was angry that I was gone and refused to let me make up work despite advance notice, taking a hit to my grade.

        People keep saying “no reasonable manager” which I always find amusing because a whole freaking lot of people are not reasonable about sick leave at all.

        1. Anx*

          I was just about to say that as bad as school is about this, nothing has every made me as scared to be sick as some of the bosses I have had. And it’s not like they had to pay me or anything when I didn’t show up.

          It’s a pretty common attitude to know that if you want to go to a family wedding or miss a week of work for an illness it could mean looking for a new job when you got back.

        1. cuppa*

          Yep. The only time I ever had my mother call in for me at work was when I was working retail and called in sick because I had a bad migraine. My supervisor asked for a doctor’s note, so my mom called right back and talked to him.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Yeah, really. I am not seeing a lot of difference. I am not saying being super-ridged is right- no,no-I am just saying there are plenty of places that are overly ridged to the point of wildly unfair.
          If I could only change the world…

    7. Lunar*

      I think you just do it. Even if your manager doesn’t believe you because you don’t look sick – it will be clear that you aren’t constantly faking sick to take time off when you don’t do it all the time in the future. Your manager sounds like a normal person who has every reason to trust you and trade you like an adult. Just go for it!

    8. Nobody*

      Do you have a reason to think this particular manager will think you’re lying? Does he have a history of not believing you or other people when they call in sick? In my experience, most managers — even some who are otherwise nut jobs and jerks — are pretty understanding of the occasional sick day (unless it becomes excessive or there is a suspicious pattern, like frequently calling in sick on Fridays) and would prefer for you to stay home when you’re sick. And most people don’t take a lot of convincing because they don’t want to hear the personal details of your symptoms. It will probably be sufficient to say you’re not feeling well and need to go home.

      Hope you feel better soon!

    9. ScottySmalls*

      As a recent graduate myself, I have to learn this lesson too. But honestly, if you’re not feeling well enough to work, or coughing/blowing your nose constantly, take the sick day. Alternatively, if you’re just feeling a bit under the weather and aren’t spewing germs out of every orifice, I think it’s okay to come in ( Let me know if I’m wrong commentators)

      1. SickRecentGrad*

        Yeah, I usually feel crappy to some degree, it just depends on if it’s infectious or not. A cold is unambiguously infectious and I really should be at home right now. But I usually have a baseline level of nausea, headache, dizziness that hasn’t gone away in a decade (except if I sleep for 12-14 hours a night, which is not realistic). I couldn’t call out for that or I’d never be at work!

    10. SickRecentGrad*

      Thanks everyone, this helps. So I have to just do it. I’ve been at this job a year now, with the same manager, and never used a sick day. He hasn’t questioned other people’s requests for sick days or anything, there is absolutely no indication he would say anything other than “OK see you tomorrow”.

      1. SickRecentGrad*

        Actually when we got snowed in earlier this month, I left a nervous voicemail for my boss saying I couldn’t get out of our subdivision and had to work from home. I offered to take a vacation day if that wasn’t acceptable. 5 minutes later my boss texted me “No problem, work from home is fine, it’s bad out there.” Turns out only one person was at the office and everyone else worked from home (including boss).

    11. sittingduck*

      I think it can be even simpler than what others are saying. You have NO obligation to tell your boss WHY you are taking a sick day, you don’t have to qualify you’re sick day by saying you have a cold, threw up, etc. You just have to say, I’m not feeling well I won’t be in today. Don’t feel like you have to ‘prove’ that you are sick, you said your boss is reasonable, he should take your word for it. If you want to share details with him, you can, but you by no means need too.

      1. Hlyssande*

        I still struggle with this myself. It always feels like I have to explain what’s going on to justify the sick day I’m taking.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Not a doc. But are you sure this is not profound allergy? That is what happened to me, I kept getting sick at regular intervals and it turned out to be heavy allergy. I mean HEAVY.

          I am sure your worry/stress adds to it, too.

    12. Lizzy May*

      I feel like the teen and early twenty years really mess with people’s minds when it comes to sick day. Missing school is always a BIG DEAL that can screw up your grades. It never seems to matter who you are or what your record is, the moment you miss a class you must be faking. Adding to it is those are he same years most people get restaurant or retail jobs where missing a shift is end of the world and even when you are puling your guts out the onus is on you to find coverage. I think these systems really do set people up to, down the line, be very hesitant to take sick days. I also think it’s very unfair to treat teens (and twenty-somethings) that way. People get sick no matter what age.

    13. nep*

      Why do you think your manager will not believe you? What’s the context? Has he demonstrated in the past that he doesn’t find you trustworthy?
      Your health and that of your co-workers first.

  34. Dino*

    So I have been interviewing for a position I’m really excited about. The process has of course dragged out way longer than they originally said. Each time they pass their stated timeline, I wait a few days, and then send a very nice email checking in. They email back that they are still “very interested,” apologize and give me a new timeframe. I am pretty sure I am one of two finalists. I know they talked to my references last week, and they promised me an answer by mid week this week, so 2 days ago. Do I reach out today? Also, should I be concerned about their inability to make a decision? Could this reflect a culture of paralysis, or is just how things usually go?

    1. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

      I wouldn’t keep reaching out every time they pass a deadline – it won’t change their timeline, but might make them feel frustrated with you. It’s so totally normal for hiring to take weeks longer than predicted. I wouldn’t assume indecisiveness – it could be anything. We recently delayed a process because a key interviewer got sick. We delayed another one because a top candidate was out of the country. And another because a person who had nothing to do with the hiring process had a death in the family, and the hiring manager had to fill in for her. I doubt they are just having trouble making up their minds, but rather dealing with any number of other things that are holding them up.

    2. Jennifer*

      Hah, I hear ya, I’m on the end of the third week–pretty much at the edge of the time they told me they should be deciding. However, I’m 99% sure I’m not going to get that job anyway so I am not super concerned at this point. Plus I applied for three other jobs in the last three weeks….of course, haven’t heard anything on those either.

      Oh well. I accept my lot in life at this point.

      If they still don’t know yet, they still don’t know yet and your doing another nag e-mail probably isn’t going to make them speed up, unfortunately. I might wait to e-mail yet again until the middle of next week just to find out what the new timeline, yet again, is.

  35. Inconnu*

    I had a situation with an employee (Sansa) whom I supervise and another staff member (Arya–who does not report to me.) in which Sansa thought that Arya was doing something she should not have been doing. I brought up Sansa’s concern with Arya’s supervisor (it was my first instinct.) Arya came to my office to explain her side of the situation, but then Sansa proceeded to argue with her. I told Sansa to wait at her desk while I talked to Arya and I later had to reprimand Sansa for her behavior. Is there a better way I could have handled this situation? How should I proceed from here? I do realize that I should have talked to Arya first before going to her supervisor. Thanks for any advice you have to offer.

    1. Katie the Fed*

      Hm, I would have done this:

      Ask Sansa if she’s talked to Arya directly. If she can’t/won’t, then bring in Arya’s supervisor as well when Arya talks to you, and do it in a private location so Sansa can’t hear or interrupt.

    2. 50 Shades Of Plaid*

      I think you were correct talking to Arya’s supervisor first. It sounds like you did all of this with Sansa in your office? I think I would have talked to Arya’s supervisor – and Arya too – in private.

      If you learned that Sansa was incorrect, I’d tell her privately that you had investigated the situation, and (probably) explain to her that she was mistaken.

      But if you learned that Sansa was correct about Arya’s misbehaving, I think I would probably ask Arya’s supervisor how they wanted to handle it, and proceed from there. Note that your business may have different policies than I am familiar with: at my place of work, it would be incorrect for me to discipline Arya directly. By the standards of your work culture, you may have handled this perfectly.

      Also: I do not know the exact timing of events. You may have been attempting to do exactly what I said, and Sansa and Arya walked into your office at exactly the wrong moment(s).

  36. Beezus*

    Anyone else affected by the ILWU-PMA labor negotiations on the US West Coast? How is it hitting your company?

    1. Beezus*

      I work for a manufacturing company, and we move a decent amount of cargo in through the US West Coast. We’ve increased our stock till our warehouses are bursting at the seams, and rented a modest amount of additional warehouse space. We’ve paid air freight costs out the nose. We’ve rerouted some of our cargo through other ports, but aren’t seeing a huge amount of relief on turnaround times, and we have some geographic limitations on how much of that we can do. We’re over budget on international transportation due to air freight, detention and demurrage, higher SSL rates and terminal fees, etc. etc. Don’t get me started on manufacturing disruption costs and late product delivery related to things not arriving on time because the ports are backed up.

      With the PMA deciding not to schedule work this holiday weekend, I’m biting my nails waiting to get a call from my freight forwarder rep, or a JOC update, telling me there’s a lockout or a strike. I’m kind of hoping for one, really – it would be painful, but we’ve been talking about it for over a year, they’ve been in negotiations for nine months, the ports have been backed up for 4-5 months, and I’m just ready for it to come to a head, just to get it that much closer to being over.

      1. Ineloquent*

        Oh boy, I feel your pain. I work in imports, and while the vast majority of my shipments come by air, I do see the much higher prices and frustration that my export counterparts are experiencing when trying to get stuff shipped via ocean on the west coast. Not much fun.

    2. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      Just another Large Hurdle in our way. There’s always a couple at a time. I swear that if we could have a decent period of stability and no Large Hurdles, we’d make a zillion dollars ’cause we could just concentrate on selling stuff. :)

      This Large Hurdle requires a lot of switching customers off from Item A in blue to Item Z in black, so it’s impactful on our employee time and our customers’ satisfaction. With tens of thousands of SKUs across hundreds of suppliers, it’s challenging!

      Worse though, is the new UPS and FedEx DIM calculations. That’s the killer of the first half of this year.

    3. Beezus*

      I hear ya on the Large Hurdles, I have them too.

      This one amazes me. Today, there were 19 container ships waiting outside the ports. Normally, there are only one or two. The normal time to get a ship in, unloaded, and containers available for pickup was 5-7 days, now it is 18-25, and if you have rail transport after that, there are backlogs there, too. I am glad I don’t work in an industry with perishables!

      I know I’m a big nerd, but it’s such an enormous, complex system, and it’s so fascinating to me to see the effects when something goes wrong with it! I’m going to comment below with a blog link showing some really cool aerial photos of the container ships lined up at the port, all the containers waiting, and all the trucks lined up to get them. The scale of it all just boggles the mind.

  37. kristinyc*

    Update on the non-profit job for which I’ve been interviewing since the beginning of January (wore the dress instead of a suit to the interview, did a ton of research on salary ranges – thanks to all for the great advice a few weeks ago)!

    They reached out to me about doing a background check and checking references on Wednesday. Yesterday they called at least one of my references (not sure if they called the others – she just emailed me). The part 2 of their application that I had to fill out during this stage was really comprehensive (like, they wanted my HS and college cities and graduation dates, previous managers names, phone numbers and addresses, etc. That was fun to gather…). So, fingers crossed!

    Hopefully the last thing I need to navigate – start date. They had said they’re hoping for this person to start the first week of March. I currently have a vacation planned March 10 – 17. It’s pretty flexible and I could shorten the trip if I need to (it’s visiting family/ a friend’s bachelorette party, all in a fun location). I don’t think I should work a week and a half and then take a week off, so I’m thinking of just shortening the trip (like, make it Thursday through Monday instead of Tuesday through Tuesday), since I’d really prefer not to cancel it. I haven’t brought it up to them yet (waiting on an offer).

    1. HigherEd Admin*

      Yeah, I would bring it up at the offer stage. Let them know you have a pre-planned trip and ask if it would be alright to keep your trip as scheduled. Anytime this has happened to me in the past, New Employer has been really understanding and I was able to keep my trips as planned.

    2. Sunflower*

      This is something I’m having some trouble navigating as well. My sister is getting married early May and I have 5 days between mid-March and then that I need to take off(including 3 days for pre-paid vacation) for that. Of course, this has to happen right before summer when I literally take 95% of my vacation days!

  38. Jessica*

    Hi All,

    As an unemployed person, I had some great news this week when I got a request for a phone interview. Woo hoo! However, while I typically am very careful that the companies I apply to meet a few criteria, like location, I apparently didn’t do my due diligence and realized afterwards that the company is very far from my house. It would be quite a commute. I’m not sure if this is a dealbreaker, but I wanted to discuss work-from-home options. At what point? Not the phone interview, I would think, but if I get a face-to-face? Or offer letter stage? They describe themselves as a flexible company, so I want to know what that means. BTW, this is not a high level position, so it would be easy to fill.

    1. Jessica*

      And as a related question, I’ve been applying to a few jobs that have been lower than my experience at companies I really admire or seem like great workplaces. Kind of, “foot in the door” jobs. Is this a bad idea? I sometimes feel like I am selling myself short and it will backfire in the long run, but other times I want to just get on board at a certain company. Any thoughts on this?

    2. fposte*

      Oof. Is there any indication that the company regularly has teleworkers? Do they have anything like a work-from-home policy on their website? Do you know what would make the distance a dealbreaker for sure?

      I think all those are in the “when” equation. If it’s a dealbreaker for you and they have no indication of work from home policies, you don’t want to waste their time so you either just bail or bring it up early; if you think you could do the commute for a while and then adjust and they seem to have work from home latitude, that might be more of an offer stage situation. So I’d explore through the phone interview phase and then make my decision based on what I thought about the commute and their policies at that point.

      1. Jessica*

        So, they describe themselves as flexible with a great work/life balance and I would love to know what exactly that entails. I’ve tried to find specific work-from-home data, but no luck yet. The dealbreaker part comes from the fact that I want to see my kid at night. Every parent does, but I also happen to be a single parent in the most literal sense, given that her father is deceased. In every aspect, this is a huge hurdle. But I am also unemployed and running out of money quickly. I worry that I may just jump at any job and get stuck commuting 2 hours each day. I need to organize my thoughts on this and luckily, I have a week to prepare. Would it be too much to ask during the phone interview, “You describe yourself as a flexible company… what do you actually mean by that?”

        1. kristinyc*

          I think that’s perfect – I’ve asked very similar questions (I live in an outer borough of NYC, and it takes me well over an hour to get to certain parts of Manhattan, so I usually ask about tWFH policies in interviews).

          In general, I’ve found that if I company brags about their work/life balance on their site, they probably mean it. If they don’t say anything about it at all, then you definitely need to be cautious. Good luck!

    3. TotesMaGoats*

      Well, if it’s not a high level position, then my guess is that the chances of work from home are lower. That’s true in my job. But the lower level employees have to physically be at work due to the nature of their work. (ie Face to face appointments, events). If the job doesn’t require you to be physically in the office, you might have a greater chance. I would say that the convo could start at the face to face stage of the process and get into details in the offer letter stage.

      Partly in answer to your other question, when considering commute, if the job gets your foot in the door the commute might be worth if for a while to get to the level where you can work from home.

      1. Jessica*

        Yes, I feel like it may be a case of foot in the door. I could stand to commute for a year if I was able to move to a higher position with more flexibility. This isn’t an HQ though, so this office may only have a very specific set of positions you can go into. That’s another thing I want to know….if I can actually move into the position I want to while staying in my home state.

  39. matcha123*

    I have a question about a translation I’m working on and would like to hear thoughts from the people the work would be targeting; non-Japanese who are interested in traditional Japanese food.

    Would you prefer to read romanized Japanese words or an English explanation of those words? The English explanation would mean that less overall information is translated due to spacing. The romanized word would appear as something like: “When celebrating kanreki, sekihan is a popular food item along with tsukemono and nimono.”
    A translation that doesn’t use romanized words, but takes up the same amount of space would be something like:
    “On their 60th birthdays, Japanese people eat traditional celebratory foods.”

      1. matcha123*

        Unfortunately, due to space issues, I can’t do this one. I agree it would be the best, and where there is space I try to do just that :(

      2. Serin*

        I agree with this — I don’t know how much knowledge you’re assuming, but to a reader with only a sushi-level knowledge, I would want to see the translation/explanation and begin to learn the words.

    2. Jessica*

      I’m a person that immediately looks up the meaning of words on my phone, so I would personally prefer the romanized version because I like to learn the word origins. Is this educational?

      1. matcha123*

        Thank you. It’s something that was originally made for Japanese people to encourage them to eat more traditional Japanese food, so, yes an educational pamphlet. Since, apparently Japanese people are eating more Western foods than Japanese ones.
        As such, the whole layout is based on what fits with the original Japanese with very little I can change.

        1. Jessica*

          Then I say definitely go for the romanized version. I love that it uses the names and it makes me, personally, want to dig a little deeper.

    3. Muriel Heslop*

      I like the first version rather than the second. I don’t know what the traditional celebratory foods are and since I am interested in traditional Japanese food, I want to learn the names of things.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      I like the romanized Japanese version. It paints the picture, and it is really the picture that sells the item. But I read my J. Peterman catalogs like a magazine, so I’m a bit biased.

    6. matcha123*

      Thank you all for the replies so far!
      This is going to come in handy when I have to make my case for choosing one over the other :)

    7. ZSD*

      Honestly, I think either of those options would make me annoyed at your company if I read that brochure. If I read that Japanese people ate traditional celebratory foods, I would think, “*What* celebratory foods?!” But if I read the romanizations you gave here, I would be annoyed that the brochure was expecting me to know this vocabulary. (Like others, I would go look it up, but I’d be annoyed that I had to.)
      Of the two, I’d prefer the romanization, but if you really don’t have space for a definition in-text, could you at least include a glossary at the back of the packet?
      To be clear, I’m not at all expressing annoyance at you personally. I realize that you’re just trying to work within the guidelines you’ve been given. But I think that your supervisors should really allot more space in this booklet to make it as informative as possible for the readers. With the space limitations they’re currently giving you, I’m afraid all you’ll be able to accomplish is annoying people.

      1. Anonsie*

        Normally I might agree but non-Japanese people that are interested in stuff like this are very, very likely to either know a lot of the terms or have an easy resource to find the meaning without being miffed. I think it’s an audience thing.

      2. matcha123*

        Yeah, this is a big issue with a lot of translations I get. Space is limited and the people that have made the request want non-Japanese speakers to understand the text in the same way as Japanese speakers.

        I guess from an American perspective, it would be like writing, “Many Americans drink Corona on Cinco de Mayo.”

        We were able to provide explanations of some words, but the further I get into the piece, the more one-time only words pop up. Like the kanreki I mentioned above. Thank you all again. I’m certain my coworkers would agree, we’ll have to see about the people who made the request :)

      3. 50 Shades Of*

        I concur. Based on the information provided, I’d say you need to make it work both ways. Or come up with a better third solution. If necessary, go back to the client. I think this is a situation where choosing one of the two solutions over the other will result in a work that has no value.

      4. 50 Shades O*

        I concur. Based on the information provided, I’d say you need to make it work both ways. Or come up with a better third solution. If necessary, go back to the client. I think this is a situation where choosing one of the two solutions over the other will result in a work that has no value.

    8. ZSD*

      How about, “On their 60th birthdays, Japanese people eat red beans and rice, pickles, and stew”? Would that fit? (Based on what I just Googled, those seem like decent brief translations of sekihan, tsukemono, and nimono, respectively.)

      1. The Cosmic Avenger*

        ZSD’s version would definitely be preferable to me, then the romanized version, then the less specific translation last. I’d also have Googled the Japanese words in the romanized version, like ZSD and Jessica mentioned, because I love food tourism and Japanese food specifically.

    9. Mitchell*

      Are there photos that would help people guess the meaning of the romanized words? If so, I would lean towards the romanized version. From your first example, I could probably guess that sekihan, tsukemono and nimono are types of food but a 60th birthday is kind of hard to illustrate.

      1. matcha123*

        Yeah, the 60th birthday is apparently based on completing five cycles of the Chinese zodiac, in which one animal represents one year. And I guess turning 60 means the end of an old life and the start of a new one.
        … Which I didn’t know until I spent time on Google at work on Friday. So, like you said, even if I were to write “60th birthday,” it doesn’t truly capture the history behind the tradition!

    11. Beezus*

      Can you do a blend? You say your demographic is non-Japanese people who are interested in Japanese food, so can you add English explanations related to the food specifically, and leave the rest as a romanized translation?

    13. RG*

      Since you mentioned downthread that the Japanese version (I’m assuming kanji) is included, then I would prefer romaji so I could actually look it up as I went along. If not, then I would probably stick with just English. While romaji is useful, the limited number of sounds and the writing systems makes it difficult to absorb new vocabulary if all you have to go off of is the romaji.

    14. Lamb*

      From the examples you gave, I would blend. Use translations for the non-food words, like “60th birthday”, and use the romanized food names so that they will be what the reader would see elsewhere (menus, stores, cookbooks) to refer to the same foods.
      I agree with a previous poster that “celebratory foods” is uninformative.

    15. Schuyler*

      This is pretty cool. Once upon a time I thought about majoring in Japanese and working as a translator. Now my Japanese is so nonexistent I’m trying to figure out the best way to learn again! In general, I dislike romaji. (I think that’s largely because I studied five years’ worth of Japanese in high school, and then again in college.) But I think in cases like referring to festivals or particular foods or something that don’t have actual translations it’s cool. For instance, I mentioned hinamatsuri yesterday and used romaji. Since you don’t have the space to translate the Japanese, it’s probably better to err on the side of clarity and nix the romaji.

  40. Hlyssande*

    There was a memo on the internal website this week for the biggest business unit we support saying they had to reduce headcount, either by voluntary early retirement or involuntary layoffs. We’re in oil and gas, so the drop in oil prices is hitting some of our business units hard.

    The department president had a meeting with us today to talk about that and let us know that there are no planned layoffs in our group, but open positions won’t be filled and travel is cut. He says he hasn’t been asked to reduce headcount at all and his updated budget proposal was accepted, but people are still understandably nervous.

    Not really how I wanted to go into a weekend.

    1. Ineloquent*

      At least they’re being pretty open about it. I worked somewhere once where they did surprise layoffs to a whole department just before the holidays.

      1. Hlyssande*

        Yeah, I was really happy with how open the Dept Prez is about what we’re doing. It was the same way in 2009 too, and we didn’t reduce headcount then.

        I still can’t not worry about it, though.

    2. Bea W*

      Large round of layoffs just happened here the other day. Not the same industry, but depressing all the same, as if we needed anything more to be depressed and angry about in New England. Srsly.

    3. nep*

      Chin up. May you ride out this rough patch and make it through. I’ve been wondering about this — the price drop’s impact on people in the business. Heard a couple of related reports on NPR recently. Best wishes to you and keep us posted.

  41. Anonymous Engineer*

    Help, I’m a female mechanical engineer and I have no clue what to wear to interviews! I will be moving to New England this summer for my husband’s new job. At my current job, I wear jeans and a nice t-shirt with a scarf. I know that a lot depends on the dress code at the companies that I interview with. I just don’t want to wear a suit and end up looking over dressed. I’m thinking more business casual, maybe?

    1. Victoria, Please*

      Suit. It will be best. It’s hard to be overdressed as the interviewee. Unless you know for a fact that much of the interview will be on a dirty factory floor, just wear a suit and don’t stress.

      1. CheeryO*

        +1

        I’m a young female engineer, and I’ve worn suits to virtually all of my interviews. At my current job, people dress VERY casually, but my interviewers were dressed in shirts and ties on the day of my interview. I was confused when I showed up on my first day and they were wearing jeans and flannel shirts!

      2. How to Get Happy*

        Agreed; I am an engineer in the northeast, and suits have made the best impression on everyone I’ve seen. Better to dress up than to dress down!

    2. anonima in tejas*

      If you want to find something in between a dress with a blazer is less formal than a suit– particularly if they are contrasting fabrics, same with skirt and jacket or pants and jacket/blazer.

      If you want to do professional, but not suit, same dress/skirt/pants with heels, blouse and/or cardigan/sweater set.

    3. Anx*

      I only know 3 female engineers, but none of them have landed an permanent engineering job yet so I don’t know how useful this is. One of them wouldn’t wear suits to an interview for fears of looking overdressed. Eventually she switched to suits because she preferred them and the outfits she was wearing to feel professional-but-not-in-a-suit were still dressing up and didn’t eliminate the worry of appearing to care about her appearance to people that may judge her negatively for that.

    4. Judy*

      As a software engineer with 20+ years experience, I wore a nice blouse, dress pants and flats to my last interview. The person who set up my interview did warn me that everyone else would be in jeans and a casual shirt, so I wanted to be dressed a little bit nicer than them. I’m wearing jeans, hiking shoes and a quarter zip fleece pullover right now.

      But we’re in the midwest, and I was interviewing with a smaller organization of about 75 people.

      It’s really going to depend on culture. Manufacturing? Consulting? Place out in the ‘burbs? Place in downtown?

    5. Xarcady*

      It depends a lot on the company. But for New England, I’d say nice dress slacks with a blazer would work for a lot of interviews. If you wear a suit, I’d make it a pant suit, not a skirt suit. I’m basing this on what the male engineers I know wear on interviews and to work. They do dress up a couple of notches for interviews.

    6. nerfmobile*

      I’m a woman working in software design, and for my last several job interviews I wore dress slacks, a nice blouse, and a non-matching but coordinating jacket. (The last one I remember was charcoal grey slacks with a purple tweedy Chanel-style jacket). I am on the west coast (Pacific Northwest), so New England might require a skirt in some locations. But I think the outfit I wear is a good balance of showing that I know how to dress for executive or customer contact (important in my particular line of work) while not being stiffly formal and thus putting off the engineers who are in cargo shorts and Birkenstocks even in January.

    7. AnotherFed*

      Wear the suit (it’s ok to be more dressy than the interviewers on the first interview), but make sure your shoes are fine if you have a tour of the facility and have to walk out into any machine shop/factory spaces – I’m sure they wouldn’t take you anywhere steel toes or other protective gear was required without warning you in advance, but it’s not the time for the stiletto heels.

      Once you have a feel for the culture, you can dress down a little more for a second interview if that fits in better.

  42. Ibx*

    Hi everyone, I had an interview earlier this week for a job that was a great match for my skills. Unfortunately, I just received word that I did not get the job. This is so heartbreaking. I just can’t help myself from becoming invested in a job — I research the company, get a feel for the environment, etc. How can I prevent myself from being let down if a job doesn’t work out?

    1. Jessica*

      Ibx, I’m right there with you and I feel for you. Sorry to hear it didn’t work out for you. I had a *great* interview recently for an awesome job and had my hopes very high, especially since I had a referral and there were only two candidates. Heard no and was devastated. Not going to lie, I was down about it for a few weeks. I am also a person that gets really invested in companies and actually pictures myself there. So here’s what worked for me. First things first, I wrote a sincere, “Thank you for considering me and I hope you’ll keep me in mind” note so I ended on a good note. Took a couple days off the job searching and did some fun stuff to take my mind off the “I’m not good enough” attitude I had. Then I figured out what made me so invested in the company or the job. For me, it was the company. I spent a lot of time researching companies that had a similar feel and culture. It made me really happy to see that there are plenty of other fish in the sea. I also felt that not getting that job was a good learning experience, because I was far too invested on my end to have been in a good place to negotiate. I have an interview coming up and I am definitely more guarded and not as starstruck. I’m approaching it more as an equal, not someone who would just love to get a job there. It’s totally changed how I approach things and, I think, given me confidence. There’s always another good job out there. Best of luck!

    2. Nobody*

      Sorry you didn’t get the job. I know how hard it is when you get your hopes up only to be rejected. I think Alison’s advice on this type of thing has been to put the job out of your mind after you apply or after the interview. Just assume you probably didn’t get the job and keep on applying for other jobs, and then if you do get the job, it will be a pleasant surprise, but if you don’t, it won’t be as disappointing. I know there’s a temptation to stop looking and wait for word on the promising job before you apply for other jobs, but don’t do that; it will only make a rejection hurt more because you may have missed out on other opportunities in the mean time. And remember: there ARE other opportunities! New jobs open up all the time, and you might find one even better than the last one. Good luck!

    3. AndersonDarling*

      This just happened to my husband. He thought for sure that he had a job in the bag, then he heard on Tuesday that he didn’t get it and he was convinced that he would never get a job that would be as good.
      The next day he talk to some other folks and got a job that he is just as happy with.
      I like to think that there is a reason you didn’t get the job, because there is a better one for you out there. It is really easy to make a dream job out of an interview, but you really don’t know how it would have turned out.
      I hope you find the mystery perfect job soon!

    4. Jennifer*

      Don’t get your hopes up. Always assume you’re not going to get the job and someone else is still better than you are. Don’t fall in love and think you’re perfect for it and vice versa. Lower your expectations.

      Which sounds bad, but it really does help.

    5. sittingduck*

      This happened to me SO many times in my 3 year job search. I too get really invested/interested in companies, and think I rock the interview, and then didn’t get the job. Its heartbreaking, and while I understand the ‘Put the job out of your mind after you apply’ advice that Allison gives, for some people, like me, its just not that simple. That’s not how my brain works.

      I did finally get a job, and it gave me great perspective. I work a a very small office (5 people) and I had applied origionally for a now co-workers job. I had known the company for years, and used their products for years, I *knew* I was the *perfect* candidate for this job. I rocked the interview – and then didn’t get the job. I inquired as to how I could have been a stronger candidate, but didn’t get much feedback. I was heartbroken, I had just *known* this was the right company for me to work at. I was beyond crushed. But I did reply and nicely say that I would keep my eye out for future positions (not expecting much, small company typically has little to no turnover)

      5 months later on a Saturday, I got an email from my now boss asking if I was still looking for a job. I replied with a resounding YES and was offered the job basically on the spot, no new interview.

      Now that I’m in this job – and I work very closely with the co-worker who got the original job I applied for, I can see how she was a better fit for that position. I can also see that I would NOT be a good fit for that position, but I am a great fit for the position I ended up with, and she would not have been a good fit for this one.

      So despite thinking you are *perfect* for the position, the people doing the hiring are really the best judges of that. I’m actually really thankful that I didn’t get the job my co-worker has, because I now know I would hate it.

      Its all in perspective. I would recommend replying and telling them you are still really interested in the company, and tell them you will look for future opportunities, and then keep looking for other positions.

      There were SO many times I thought I had found the *perfect* job for me, and then after I didn’t get it, a few months later found another *perfect* job. It is really hard in the moment, but you will find other opportunities.

      Sorry for the novel…..

  43. SouthernBelle*

    I’m driving myself crazy! I received a call last week, asking me if I was still interested in a position. I, of course, said yes, and was then told I would be called this week to set up an interview for next week. I haven’t received the call yet and I’m driving myself up every wall in my house waiting for it! I’m super anxious about it since it seems to be perfect for me and this job search (8 months and counting) is really starting to wear me down.

    1. Jessica*

      Have you been unemployed for 8 months? I’ve been for almost 6. Want to make a crazy club? I know the exact feeling you’re experiencing and you’re right, it wears you down. I am typically a jittery mess. But that’s awesome news on the interview! I am also waiting and finally had to just make a purposeful effort to leave my house so I didn’t go nuts. The library was my friend because it’s 1) free and 2) quiet. I’ve also gotten really into binge-watching Fargo. Anything to keep busy or distracted! I’d LOVE to know how other people deal with that excitable, crazy feeling that comes with waiting to hear about jobs. I feel like I am bouncing off the walls usually.

      1. SouthernBelle*

        Yes! 8 long months of unemployment with a lot of false starts and small projects along the way. I’ve had a few interviews but none were for positions that I felt really suited me (and apparently they felt the same since there were no offers from those interviews). I’ve been unemployed so long that I taught myself how to crochet AND started selling what I make, something I never thought I’d do. I have to believe that there’s a light at the end of the tunnel though!

        1. Jessica*

          I did that exact thing the last time I was unemployed a few years ago! Sold crocheted baby stuff, that is. I’m thinking of opening up shop again, but this time with my homemade beauty products, a hobby spawned from necessity due to me being, well, broke. I’m a person that has to feel like I’m doing something productive, so crafting has been a good use of some of that extra time (and good god, isn’t there a lot of extra time?)

          It sounds like there is light at the end of the tunnel for you! Sending good job thoughts and vibes your way!

        2. LabTech*

          Hang in there! I was unemployed for 9 before finally landing my current position. They went 3 months past their initial timeline of 1 month – I got a call out of nowhere and went from abject poverty to career job in my desired field overnight!

          Hope you get the same lucky break I did. Keep plugging away at applications, and something will stick!

      2. Mander*

        Can I join the crazy club? I finished my degree in January 2012 and I’ve been looking for a job ever since with no luck at all. I’ve had one single interview and didn’t get the job. None of the usual things (temp agencies, networking, leaving my education off my CV, etc.) seem to be working. I got fed up and started doing some freelance editing but my clients are sporadic and I barely make any money. I’m seriously convinced that I will never have a job again, though I have been fighting valiantly to avoid complete despair.

        I never wanted to be a housewife but that’s basically what I am right now. I don’t even have any kids or pets and I’m not a very diligent housekeeper, so I sort of fail at being a housewife, too!

      1. BritCred*

        Obsessively reading AAM whilst on Sickness benefits etc is even more tantalising. a year and a half sick and really want to get back out there but body just isn’t ready yet… brain is going insane!

    3. voluptuousfire*

      Yes! I’m waiting for a response back for a part-time office manager role that emailed me on Wednesday to set up a time this week, but I have not heard from them. I followed up this afternoon to see about getting something next week but anymore than that makes me look like a pest.

      On Wednesday I reactivated my “professional” Twitter and it turns out my one follower was a recruiter I had met with back in the fall of 2013. I know I impressed him and was really glad that he sought me out on Twitter to follow. He’s at a new company and I tweeted him asking if his new company may open up shop in the US and he said it’s likely very soon. (The recruiter is in Europe.) I connected with him on LinkedIn and in the loop. It really makes me feel better that someone actually remembered me in a positive way and could be a potential ally in getting a job. I’ve had so many phone screens or interviews the past 11 months and since none of them panned out, it makes me wonder if I’m making the right impression.

      1. SouthernBelle*

        I can completely relate to that. I’m realizing that I need to work more on my networking skills (they’ve always been lacking and I’ve attributed it to being extremely introverted and just not used to having to do the handshaking and question asking that comes along with the territory). I do love the variety on LinkedIn though – especially since my career trajectory is based more on function than on a specific industry.

        1. Jessica*

          YES! I would consider myself an extrovert, but I have hit this roadblock as well, all due to my lack of networking prowess. I just never view people as networking contacts. I am slowly building it, but cultivating a usable network takes a lot of time. I only want to add people that I would be comfortable reaching out to about stuff.

  44. KAZ2Y5*

    Alison, thank you so much for this blog! I had a phone interview earlier this week (only my second phone intervire in 30 years) and have been reading up on phone interviews and thank you notes. I don’t know if I will get to the point of a “real” interview but I know I did so much better being prepared.
    I also saw somewhere that you said it was ok to send a thank you note up to 48 hrs after the interview. And it took me that long to think of something to add to what we talked about, but I was able to address something that I know they think would be important to the job.
    And lastly ( although I should have led with this) I think I was able to get the interview in the first place because of your advice about cover letters. So, thanks for everything and hopefully I will have more good news later.

  45. How to Get Happy*

    I am looking for some advice on how to get happier while at work!

    I’ve been pretty depressed because I thought I was working with a really tight, close group of people (we are engineers/scientists). We talked a lot about many things, and we also talked a lot about salary (which I know is difficult) – I told this one employee about my struggles trying to get a raise while underpaid, and she always asked me about it and seemed sympathetic. She had me promise to tell her if anything happened, and she promised as well.

    1-2 years ago we took on a massive project, and I did all the work for this one very high selling product which my manager somehow associated with her (possibly this is because I am not good at communicating my work) and she at the tail end of it, got a job offer from a company across the street. Then, she said she “turned it down” because she realized she would miss all of us. I know she got a great counteroffer too, because I interviewed for the same position she had gotten the job offer from, and they said they offered her x but she told them she had a counteroffer at y. I asked her if she really didn’t get a counteroffer a couple of times, mentioning it was the one thing very important to me, and she said no every time, even when I mentioned I wouldn’t get mad.

    So, I know it’s an issue of “it’s just business”, but any ideas on how to just get over it (aka, how to become happy at work with a coworker I no longer trust)? It’s been tough since I really did consider her a friend (which is totally my fault mixing business and life), but now I just get sad or annoyed whenever she goes “I have so much work to do and I don’t get paid anymore”. So, any advice on just how to go along on daily business/get happier at work when working with iffy coworkers? And yes, I completely realize I am at fault for mixing work/compensation with friendships!

    1. Annika Potato*

      I’m a bit confused – you are concerned that she is being paid more? I would ask her for advice because she clearly knows how to play the game!

    2. Anie*

      Honestly, in the long run, it’s none of your business how much your friends or co-workers make. It can be a really touchy subject. Just because she doesn’t want to share doesn’t mean she’s not trustworthy. It means her financials are her own business–and you’re probably making it weird by being forceful and promising “you won’t be mad.”

    3. Damaska*

      It’s totally possible that the company across the street lied to you, or that she had been counter-offered but something happened where they revoked the counter-offer but she ended up staying anyway. Something embarrassing could have happened that she doesn’t want to talk about. Something could have changed in her life where she doesn’t want to honor the original promise, or perhaps she doesn’t even remember making it. I think there are a lot of reasons not to jump to “my work friend is iffy.”

    4. fposte*

      It’s not about mixing business and life, though; the question you were asking was an invasive one that you didn’t have a right to the answer to. It’s not a breach of trust that she didn’t provide them, any more than if you asked her about her orgasm style and found out she’d misrepresented it.

      Yeah, I’m going for an extreme example there, but I think workplace intimacy can make it hard to realize when you’re going over the line of what’s reasonable to ask, so I wanted something that would be inarguable–hopefully :-). I would say this isn’t a reason for you to stop considering her a friend; it’s reason to be attentive to the fact that even friends are allowed to have boundaries and privacy.

      1. How to Get Happy*

        Good point. I think I would be able to get over it more if she hadn’t been the one to consistently ask me in prior months “how my request for a raise is going” and “did I get a raise yet” or “did HR say anything to you yet” or “what raise are you asking for”/”did you get a good raise this year”.

        So we are both probably too invasive and need to dial it down. It is a strange situation, but a good learning one!

        1. fposte*

          Ah, the “can dish it out but not take it” scenario; I can definitely understand why you’d think it was an okay question from that, and she should have been clearer that she wasn’t feeling it on the recipient end. But I’d still let it go as an answer and not consider it a measure of the friendship.

    5. August*

      From what I understand, she asked for salary information from you and you disclosed it to her, assuming that she would disclose her salary information if and when you ask her. However, she didn’t and that is the reason and you are feeling betrayed. I totally understand how you are feeling and I had been in some what in your shoes.

      I used to accompany my work friend whenever she asked me to (shopping, running errands etc) all the while assuming that she would also do the same if I ask her. However when I asked her, she said no. I reminded her that I have given her company many times. She said, while that was true, she never promised me that she would return that favour and I was free to say no when she asked me to give her company. I was hurt, felt like a fool and felt betrayed.

      I took it as a lesson that I would never help/share information to any one assuming that they would do the same thing to me. I help people only when I have no expectations what so ever. I have been much happier after changing myself. In your case, you were being naive and your friend was being super smart. She cannot be blamed for not sharing the information with you. However, you can learn a very valuable lesson from this incident which will help you through out your career. Don’t share your personal information/salary information/do favours assuming that they will do the same to you. If you are sharing/helping, you must be completely okay them not doing the same to you. If you think you will not be okay if they refuse to return your favour, then don’t share/help in the first place.

      1. How to Get Happy*

        Pretty much what I’ve learned from this! Sort of sucks, but in the corporate world a lot of people are out for themselves sadly. Which is understandable.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Great advice. Always check to see if you are matching the person in front of you.
        In the example of running errands, does your friend help run your errands, too? In the example of sharing income information, is your friend tell you hers also?

        Pace yourself to match the person who is talking to you. This just works well for life in general. Friendship is a back and a forth. It’s easy to forget to check to see what we ourselves are getting out of a specific relationship.

        FWIW, in both examples these “friends” weren’t really that much of a friend and they were wrong. If either of you had allowed the relationship to continue on, while knowing this, then that would be on your shoulders.
        “Thank you for showing me your real colors. Have a great life.”

      3. 6EQUJ5*

        August: if it works for you, that’s cool. But there really is an implied social contract that governs human relationships. Your friend who didn’t accompany you is a deadbeat and a jerk.

  46. Trainer*

    I recently completed a week long virtual training course through a company where I had also applied for a job. During the course, I had a private conversation with the instructor and received extremely positive feedback from her about my natural abilities for this line of work. We got to chatting about my background and I she asked if I was networking and looking for jobs. I am, so I mentioned that I had recently applied to her company.

    She asked me a few questions about my application and then said that she would put in a good word for me if she could. I am not really sure she meant that or was just making conversation, but who knows? After the course was over I received an email from her repeating the feedback about my natural abilities and saying that I would make an excellent addition to someones organization. She asked me to let her know if there was anything else she can do for me.

    I am not exactly sure how to respond. I only know her though this online course so I don’t feel it’s really appropriate to ask her to recommend me for the job I applied for. But what can I do here? Obviously, I need to network with her and she seems to want to assist me in some way. Or she is just really nice and may have even had similar conversations with other participants. I’m not sure.

    What would you do? Would it be out of line for me to ask for her to make a recommendation for me on LinkedIn? Is there something else I should be doing? I feel I can only ask her one thing, so I want to handle it right. I also want to maintain a work connection so I don’t want to say anything that might burn a bridge either.

    1. Sherm*

      I think odds are high that she genuinely is interested in you and is not just saying these nice things for the sake of being nice. Since she already volunteered to put in a good word if she could, I wouldn’t ask. A thank you note can help solidify your relationship. You can add that you appreciate her offer to put in a good word if possible — which would remind her to do so if she forgot.

      I’m no expert, but I have my doubts that LinkedIn recommendations really have much an effect. You can invite her to your network, but personally I wouldn’t bother asking her for a recommendation there.

  47. Stuck in the Snow*

    I’m having a hard time at work, and I’m not sure how to handle it. I’m losing all my friends – the people who I work with most regularly and who are on a similar level (we’re very hierarchical, so while I’m friendly with people higher ranked than me, it’s not like we have lunch regularly, talk about our weekends, etc.) are all leaving for other jobs. I just found out today that *another* friend is leaving. Meanwhile, their positions aren’t being filled in a timely fashion.

    I’m happy for them, truly I am, but I’m sad for me! And I feel really lonely – there’s only 1 person left who I say more than ‘good morning’ to now. There are other people in the office, of course, but we don’t have opportunities to get to know each other as it’s a fast-paced office. It’s making me feel like I’m in high school, and I’m going to be the sad kid left eating lunch alone at my desk.

    Any ideas on how to handle the sad feelings and to make new work friends?

    1. Sherm*

      I would treat the sad feelings as natural grief that will pass. As for, new work friends, a little bit of initiative goes a LONG way. Invite a coworker to lunch a couple times, and you may have a permanent lunch buddy.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Maybe the new people will be friends.
      Or you could schedule a walk for lunch so that you are getting some exercise and not sitting alone at your desk.
      Or sit at your desk and read AAM. You will not be alone doing that!

  48. Victoria, Please*

    What do you do with your hands in a meeting when you’ve taken all the notes you can, and playing with your phone is rude (as always), and you are not a doodler? Knitting is kind of unprofessional! Has anyone figured this out?

    1. Azalea*

      I always just hold a pen, even if I’m not taking notes. I find that it keeps me focused and also takes away the awkwardness of what to do with my hands.

      2. Damaska*

        I’ve spent time in meetings working though personal writing projects, planning out a business I eventually want to start, etc. Might not keep you focused on what’s being said (for me, it does, because I tend to focus better when I have multiple things going on), but at least it will keep you from falling asleep!

      3. MaryMary*

        I got busted once by my coworkers when I was writing away in my notebook during a very dull conference call. They insisted on seeing what I was writing, and were disappointed when they saw,”coffee, milk, eggs, lettuce…”

        1. Katie the Fed*

          I may have done a lot of my to-do lists for my wedding while in long and boring meetings.

          God, I’m the worst. I can’t believe I just admitted that.

    3. JMW*

      I sometimes like a smooth crystal or stone to roll around in my hand. I have a bowl of them and like to pick a color/size/texture that suits my mood.

    4. MaryMary*

      This only works for conference calls, but at OldJob several of us had little office toys to play with. A set of magnetic buckyballs, a tangle, a slinky….

    5. Leonardo da Caprio*

      Drawing and doodling. As much as I love iPads and laptops and so forth, I’ve lost all of my art chops over the years.

  49. Sarah B*

    Hi All,

    Has anyone successfully made a transition from the non-profit world to the corporate world? You see so many articles and pieces of advice about the opposite transition but I’m having a hard time finding anything for the way I want to go. I’m confident that my skills are transferable ( I do digital marketing and database management) but I’m wondering what I can do to make potential employers see it that way too.

    1. HigherEd Admin*

      I will be eagerly following this comment thread, too! I’m trying to transition from higher education to corporate (also with very transferable skills).

      1. Schuyler*

        I’m not sure if you’re comfortable sharing, but I would be interested in hearing why you’re looking to transition and what area you work in now. I’ve worked in higher education almost eight years, currently in financial aid. I like it often, but sometimes I just get damn annoyed. But the thought of moving elsewhere (beyond the Dept. of Ed, that is) is scary to me! Is there anything in particular you think your work in higher ed is well suited for in a more corporate role? I fear it would be much more high pressure and I’d be setting myself up for failure. Fin aid folks tend to end up with lenders or servicers, but just the thought of being in a sales-type role brings up all my insecurities.

    2. kristinyc*

      I’ve gone back and forth (my first job was at a local branch of a VERY large and well-known nonprofit, but I’ve had several jobs since that were in the corporate world. Now I’m interviewing to go back to nonprofit).

      On your resume – do the same thing you would for any job – show how your contributions impacted the goals of the company (whether its getting new members, fundraising, etc – those definitely translate to selling products). In terms of marketing – if you’re great at social media, you could talk about understanding your audience. I do email marketing, and aside from exact content, it’s pretty similar across a lot of industries.

      Also – look at companies that are B Corps. Even though they’re for-profit companies, they’re very “do-good” focused and usually look for people who have similar mindsets. I worked for one for a while and loved it – they encouraged us to volunteer and be involved in the community.

      One thing to keep in mind – if you’re going to a startup – workload and pace will likely be REALLY different, and that can be a big adjustment.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Are you going for large corporations or small-to-medium businesses? I’ve been doing non-profit almost my entire working career, and I had one foray into the for-profit world, but it was a small, family-owned private company that was tangentially related (the type of non-profits I worked in are their clients). Not sure if that’s helpful, but they viewed me as a desirable candidate precisely because of my experience in non-profits.

  50. Azalea*

    I posted a few weeks ago with my issues with my isolated, no water access office. Per the advice given here, I did speak to my boss. He basically told me there’s nothing he can do. For the record, I have been applying for new jobs, but nothing yet.

    Which leads me to my follow-up:

    My husband and I are hoping to start a family in the not-so-distant future. When that time comes, I have every intent of going to a doctor and getting a note saying that I need to be somewhere with access to a restroom. My question is: is there a way I can discuss this with my boss before it even becomes an issue, to let him know that it is something that may come up and will need to be addressed?

    Reason I’m asking is because I STRONGLY suspect that my boss has ADHD, and one of the ways it manifests itself is through procrastination. I do not think he’s aware of this, and he gets very defensive if something is pushed. A good example is I realized that there was a discrepancy in my paycheck. He promised to go to HR to get it fixed, and kept telling me he would take care of it. Well, after a few weeks, when I still hadn’t seen my money and he kept making excuses, I told him I would talk to them myself. He took care of it, but was very upset with me for “nagging” about it.

    After that, I realized that if I need something done, I have to start the process ahead of time if I want it to be addressed in a timely manner – without having to resort to going to HR.

    1. fposte*

      Can you explain what changes “access to a restroom” is going to necessitate? I don’t remember the details of the water thing.

      1. Azalea*

        It basically means that if I need to get to a bathroom, I have to walk two steep flights of stairs, walk across a loading dock, and then walk up a hill outside and into the main office.

        1. Hlyssande*

          Wow, ick! That doesn’t sound like it would conform with OSHA rules either depending on the setup.

          Is there anyone else in your waterless office? At the very least they should put a portapotty over there. Geez.

        2. fposte*

          Right, but what do you want work to do about it? Are you asking for more break time to accommodate this? Or are you hoping that they’ll be able to make closer bathroom facilities available with a portapotty or something?

          1. Azalea*

            What I would want them to do is give me a work space that is close to a bathroom, and that does not involve the very steep and not particularly safe (I have nearly fallen on several occasions – they are quite narrow, dirty, and thanks to carelessness of other employees, it’s not unusual to get crap on my shoes that lessens their traction).

            The nature of my work is such that I do not have to be where I am now to get it done. I could really be anywhere on the property. If anything, me being somewhere more accessible would make my job easier for everyone – there are times when people don’t bring me my paperwork because they don’t want to deal with the stairs, or times when I’m not told something important that I need to know because I’m “out of sight, out of mind.”

            The other admin has told me that she would be willing to switch offices with me if I needed the accomodation. I would have to get my supervisor to back me on that, though, as it would require communicating with her supervisor. There is also an office trailer on site that currently has unused work space – and also has a bathroom.

            1. fposte*

              Especially given what you’ve said about your manager, then, I’d make an explicit proposal for being housed in the office trailer or a specific other identified workspace, complete with “and I’ve checked and I can do it Monday, and I’ve got the keys authorized, and that’s okay, right?” Don’t hand over a doctor’s note (which has no force in law anyway) and expect Mr. ADD to come up with a solution; don’t even hand him choices; just hand him a plan that requires him only to stay out of the way.

            2. Building Better Worlds*

              Perhaps if you positioned this as “we have a problem” followed by “and here is a solution”, your boss will buy into it? Ala “I don’t want problems, I want solutions!”

            3. Artemesia*

              I once got very good advice from my husband when I was shafted in a space shift at work. “Don’t complain unless you have a solution. When a boss can’t meet your need, they will try to hurt you. They don’t want to feel like the bad guy so they have to make it your fault.” I have since observed this phenomenon many times. Since you have an idea of a solution, go to him with this in mind. Lay out the hazards of the current situation and your solution with ‘I’d like to start working out of the trailer on Monday.’

  51. Nashira*

    Does anyone have any advice for keeping a nasty, toxic coworker from getting to you? One of the folks in my office has spent her entire tenure here rotating between who she’s trying to crucify every hour. For a while, it was face to face (she was veeeery physically aggressive, but got warned about it), now it’s in the form of nastygram emails and complaining to our boss. The intention is to cause us all to be denied our quarterly bonuses, by catching us in “mistakes” that consist of typos, taking longer than four working hours to respond to emails not marked urgent (common in my office), and other problems that really… aren’t. Everyone else finds a typo, we fix it or let the responsible party know, per boss’ s instructions. The pattern is coworker is polite and friendly for a few days, then gets vicious and cruel, then ignores you a few days. Boss knows this behavior pattern kills team morale, because everyone but coworker’s two best friends are targeted, but her boss holds hire/fire authority and won’t let her remove the problem child.

    Treating coworker like she’s reasonable doesn’t work, and usually makes her even more aggressive. Killing her with kindness doesn’t work to stop the nastiness. Avoiding her doesn’t work. Anyone have any ideas beyond “keep my head down, finish my bachelor’s, and get the heck out of dodge”?

    Thank you!

    1. Muriel Heslop*

      I worked with one of these for 10 years – she just left and it’s so relaxing at work now.

      I was willing to ride it out, but it is so discouraging when management won’t address a toxic problem. Nothing enraged her more than being reasonable or logical; that is not something we can fix in people. Headphones helped, not engaging with her helped, remembering it’s not about me…and yes, get the heck out of dodge! Once I realized nothing would change the situation, I focused on acting in a way I could feel good about and try to let her own her own behavior.

      Good luck! Hang in there.

      1. Nashira*

        My company offers no strings attached tuition reimbursement that covers 15 credits a year at my school. With that, I can go to school full time without incurring debt, which is pretty nice.

    3. Colette*

      Have you tried turning it around on her?
      For example, “You didn’t reply to my email.” *checks inbox* “Oh, it wasn’t marked urgent so I didn’t realize you needed an immediate answer. I’ll put it next on my list.”

      She’s getting something out of doing this – possibly the feeling that she’s causing trouble for people. If she loses the reward, the behavior will stop. (The key to that, of course, is you need to be sure you know what the reward is.)

    4. Anonsie*

      Keep your head down, I suppose, you’ve exhausted my other suggestions. Sometimes that’s all you can do. Bug out the second you think an interaction is about to go south even if it would normally be weird to do so.

      Though last job I had with someone like this another coworker gave me some good advice, which is to remember that no one cares what this person thinks. She sent you a nasty email? Whatever, no one cares what she thinks and she has no authority over you. If she tries to make you look bad to anyone else, they’re all going to know who the problem really is. You don’t need her reference for a new job. She can’t do anything other than be a jerk.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I’d print out those nastygram emails and keep them some where safe.

      I’d also keep a journal at home of the Nasty Thing of the Day. Just write one or two things for each entry. Don’t try to capture it all.
      I have done this. An odd thing happens. The person will seem to sense that something is up and tend to back off. Not all the time, and not totally back off. But the times I have journalled about problems at work, I have noticed this happens. I guess they smell that something is different? I don’t know.

      A friend wore a wire to work. I know, might not be legal in some states. However, a friend did this with the idea of catching the nastiness on tape. It was so strange. Any time she did this Nasty Coworker was NICE. ALL DAY. I had to laugh. She never recorded anything. wth.

    6. The one where Spock has a killer beard*

      Yours is not the first letter on AAM that has reminded me of that episode of the original Star Trek where Kirk and his landing party accidentally get beamed to an Evil Alternate Universe, where assassination is an accepted form of climbing the within the hierarchy. In the show, this was portrayed as an unstable system. But ya gotta wonder …

      Honestly, the way you describe the situation, there is really no legal solution beyond finding a new job somewhere else. It strikes me that your management may actually be happy to have this person around: y’all spend your time hating on her and not on your bosses.

      “Classic misdirection!” – Sterling Archer.

  52. Grrr*

    My coworker is sick and has taken the day off today. It’s only February and she already has taken more sick days than the rest of us combined… It’s flu season, so almost every single one of us has gotten sick and taken a day off. And yet in the first 6 weeks of 2015, she’s already been sick longer than the rest of us. To be fair, she got the flu in early January and apparently never fully recovered from it. But she’s ALWAYS sick, or talking about how ill she is (ex. she bruised her ribs from coughing, she stayed up the whole night because she couldn’t stop coughing, etc.). At this point, I just feel she’s a hypochondriac. I’ve taken Monday off because some family is coming over, but now I have to say late today to finish off our work.

    1. Katie the Fed*

      It’s been a REALLY bad cold and flu season. Half my team was out last week, and some people have been out 4+ days with this current strain of flu. She might be explaining so much because she knows people are getting annoyed with it.

      I’m not saying she’s NOT a hypochondriac, but some of us just get sick more than others.

      1. Grrr*

        It is a bad flu season, and it doesn’t help that apparently the flu shot we took this season got the wrong strain of the virus, so it’s not as effective. I got really sick earlier in January too.

        But she’s always sick, even before this season. She gets bad migraines regularly, so she’s out of commission for a couple days every few weeks. She says she keeps herself in good health, and yet she falls sick at the drop of a hat even last year.

        1. TotesMaGoats*

          I would really try not to assume the worst of your coworker. She could have an undiagnosed immune system disorder. Or, as in my case, has a little kid that gives her every germ imaginable. I haven’t ever been as sick as I have been the past year since I had my son and he started daycare. Seriously. Anything he gets, I get and it’s usually worse.

          1. Ann Furthermore*

            Yes to this. When my daughter started daycare at about 3 months old, my husband and I shared a cold back and forth for about 6 months. She of course was fine.

        2. Katie the Fed*

          You know – even if she is faking it, her reasons for being out aren’t really your concern. What you are allowed to focus on is the impact it’s having on your work – so it’s reasonable to bring it to your manager with something like “I’m having trouble managing both my workload and Sue’s when she’s out – how should I prioritize?” But try not to concern yourself with the why of her being out – that’s not yours to worry about.

        3. Ezri*

          As to the bruised ribs from coughing, that’s a very real thing. I had a flu/strep wombo combo early my Freshman year, and afterwards I started getting stabbing pains in my chest. I was convinced I was dying, but it turns out that I was coughing so hard at night I cracked a rib. It’s incredibly painful and takes awhile to heal – there’s nothing you can really do for it other than avoiding running into walls. Being unable to sleep is a problem as well.

          Unless she makes a habit of doing this all year-round, I wouldn’t assume she’s a hypochondriac (and even then it’s probably not good to assume). I’ve had bad colds that lasted months, and when you feel gross and can’t sleep it’s all you can think about, which might be why she talks about it so much. It does sound like she should have gone to the doctor before this point, but you can’t make her if she hasn’t. It’s really your bosses problem to manage.

          1. BritCred*

            I agree on the bruised ribs thing and lack of sleep thing. Having had a bug this last week my ribs etc. are bad enough that at times I’ve barely been able to keep the mid strength to stand up….. I have compromised muscles already which hasn’t helped.

            I will admit I had a bad attendance record my last 2 years of work. I made up for it in a few ways:
            – making up the time I wasn’t in asap when I was back
            – trying not to let other people have to pick up any more than the absolute necessary of my workload
            – being there to cover for anyone else I could if that helped.

            I must admit I tried not to talk about it whilst at work too much – I didn’t want to sound like I was looking for sympathy.

        4. Observer*

          I get that it’s frustrating. But you need to drop the idea that she is a hypochondiac. Some people really do get sick more easily than others. You also don’t know what else is going on in her life that might be making her more vulnerable.

          And, just FYI, migraines are NOT just something you can power through. There is a reason they were once called “sick headaches”. They really do make you sick.

    2. Anonsie*

      Yeah, some people are sick more than you are. We’re all made different. Someone who is ill more often isn’t morally compromised or lying to you or doing it intentionally because they take bad care of themselves.

      1. Artemesia*

        But the burden always seems to fall on the hard worker who sucks it up and shows up. It is one thing to not be ‘judgmental’ when it is an abstraction; it is another when the ‘sick’ person’s workload falls on your shoulders continuously. In my experience people tend to pitch in to help out the person with a serious health issue; they get impatient with people whose thermostat for ‘too sick to go to work’ is set very low.

        1. Observer*

          The problem here is that there is no evidence whatsoever that person has her “thermostat” set too low. The issues described are very real, and can be debilitating.

          I agree that it’s ok to talk to the manager about how to handle, but it’s just not appropriate to judge the sick co-worker this way.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I used to be that person. It was a number of things, all the crap foods I ate, the super amount of personal stress I was experiencing and as you said I got sick early in the winter and could not shake it off.

      I will admit if it had not happened to me, I would not understand. This was huge. My ears felt like someone was putting red hot needles in them. That is one example. There were other things.

      Tell yourself, the boss will handle it as she sees fit. If your coworker is a thinking person, she is scared crapless that she is going to lose her job. The pressure is intense.

  53. trichwig*

    I have trichtilliomania and I wear a wig at work, and only at work. I’m interviewing for a position that looks great except that I potentially know people there- people I’ve met sans wig. Also I would bike to work- no way I’m doing that in a wig.

    How do I handle something like this? Can i just pull the wig on at my desk or something? How do i even bring this up?

    To me this seems like a big thing, but am I blowing this out of proportion?

    1. AnonPi*

      Eh, I think so many people wear wigs nowadays that it isn’t that out of place. Maybe when you first get to the building go to the restroom and put it on?

    2. Natalie*

      Is not wearing a wig at work an option? Your acquaintances there could discretely spread the word so you don’t have to explain to 8000 people that you don’t have hair.

      1. Natalie*

        Oh, I’m getting my hair related issues confused. I was thinking of alopecia, where you don’t grow any hair at all.

      2. trichwig*

        I guess I could I honestly don’t know how big of a deal it is. Its patchy and I keep it at a #3 shave. Ive always been shamed into wearing a wig, I don’t know if could walk into an interview without one. Again, I don’t know if this is a deal breaker. And how would I bring it up?

        1. fposte*

          I wouldn’t initiate the conversation, but I’d own it and be matter of fact. “Yeah, I wear a wig sometimes.” Put it on in the bathroom post-commute, just like you’d be brushing your hair in the bathroom and not at your desk. “Yeah, I wear a wig at work, but it doesn’t fit under a bike helmet.”

        3. Natalie*

          I’d say, unless you’re in a pretty conservative environment or in a client facing position, do whatever makes you most comfortable. If you feel more professional and “at work” in a wig, it’s certainly easy enough to pop into the bathroom with your helmet and bike gear still on, and then pop out in work clothes and wig. If you don’t, maybe consider just ditching it.

          1. Trichwig*

            I would love to, I just don’t know if I can. I’ve been told so much that I need to wear one, not wearing it is hard. I’m thinking for this new job, scope it out for a month, then look at ditching it.

    3. Elsajeni*

      As far as when to put the wig on, it would be very normal to see a bike commuter come in still dressed/styled for biking, walk straight to the restroom, and come out a couple minutes later with their work clothes on and their hair neatened up; if you do that, putting the wig on in the restroom just becomes part of your quick-change act. And if you don’t want people to see you without the wig on that brief walk to the restroom, you could keep your helmet on, or wear a kerchief during your commute and just switch from kerchief to wig in the restroom.

      1. trichwig*

        Honestly I really don’t care. I’m just worried about being professional. I always feel its a bit weird, which can be bad.

      1. trichwig*

        Because its hot, doesn’t breathe, won’t fit under a helmet and frankly I don’t want to. The only reason I wear one is to be professional.

    5. Kerry (Like The County In Ireland)*

      I just hope How To Get Away With Murder improves wig visibility in our world.

      I wouldn’t put it on at your desk, and I would hope that being around people you know socially sans wig would make you feel less self-conscious about your hair in general. Do you wear the wig because it looks more “professional?” If so, I’d put it on in the bathroom when you do your biking freshen up and treat it like this is your work costume. People will get used to it.

    6. Cee*

      I would interview in the wig, and then when they make you an offer, ask about it with the HR rep. It’s entirely possible everyone at the company would be okay with you not wearing a wig at work. If they do require you to wear a wig at work, then put it on in the bathroom in the morning like others have suggested.

  54. Amanda J.*

    I wasn’t sure which open thread to post this on, but I think this qualifies since it occurs at work! I have been dating a great guy for about 8 months now and he is firmly in a higher income bracket than I am. No Donald Trump (and no bad toupee!) but he is definitely well-known around our medium-size city. Some of my co-workers saw his car when he picked me up after work one day and made a few comments about his wealth. Later, they were asking me questions about what he does and who he is and then apparently they googled him and found out his net worth and stuff.

    Since then, I’ve gotten a lot of comments about how nice it must be for me to not have to pay for anything, inquiries into why I would bother to keep working when he makes so much more, and whether I’m going to fake a pregnancy to get an engagement ring out of him. At first, I thought it would blow over if I just made joking comments back but, if anything, the comments have increased over the last month. It’s coming from people at my level, but a number of the comments have been made in front of the higher-ups.

    I don’t think that the comments are being taken really seriously, but I don’t want to run the risk that people might actually start to think I’m just here as a temporary job until I get a ring or that this is just my little side hobby that I do while my BF supports me. This job is in the field where I want to stay for my entire career! In addition, one of our fundraising associates made a comment about using me to get access to him and it did not seem to be entirely a joke.

    I guess I just don’t know how to shut down these comments. Should I just ignore them until they stop? Is there a good template response?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      I think this is one of those situations where a slightly-amused-but-dead-serious question/comment back at the commenter is a good approach:

      “You’re not really suggesting I’m a gold digger, are you?”
      “You know I love this career and wouldn’t leave it for something as silly as a man!”
      “I have absolutely no intention of leaving this job, please don’t even joke about that!”

      Also – weird on them googling him to find out his net worth. Ick.

      2. Artemesia*

        It isn’t weird to do it, but it is very weird to be cackling about it. I’d shut this down as you suggested. You don’t want this blowing around where he hears it.

    2. ACA*

      “Why do you bother to keep working when he makes so much more?”
      “Because it’s not actually my life’s ambition to be a trophy wife.”

    3. Malissa*

      A stare and simply ask, “Why do you say/ask that?” This will stop most of them. Also, ‘Do you really think I’m that kind of person?” In response to the very inapropriate engagement questions.

    4. Beyonce Pad Thai*

      “Wow, that’s very rude.” Lock them in a death stare. Don’t say anything else.

      Definitely stop joking about it, they seem to be taking this as encouragement because they are boors with no manners. It pisses me off, in general, how shit like this is still used to undermine women at work. Making a comment like that once, as a joke? In bad taste, but okay. Making comments like that repeatedly, and in front of management? Launch them into a lake of fire.

    5. ZSD*

      Are you going to FAKE a PREGNANCY to get ENGAGED?!
      That one would merit the classic AAM, “Wow,” response.

    7. nep*

      If the higher-ups are intelligent at all, they’ll see that the problem there is with the person making the stupid, rude comments — not with the object of the comments.

    8. I think I need a Learjet*

      If it were me, I’d mostly be bothered by the possibility of people leaning on me for access to this fellow.

      For these other comments, I’m a big fan of the all-purpose “go fuck yourself”. Yeah, I know it’s easy for me tell you this, harder to implement in real life. But it’s all about boundaries and how badly they’re being violated. And how annoyed you are at the trespass.

      Also, I think that a lot of these comments are reflections of your coworkers fantasies. Which implies that they’re a real classy bunch of folks.

      Really: I’d started thinking about smooth ways to deflect people who want to use you for access to Mr. Guy With Money. I think it’s potentially a much more subtle and insidious problem.

      2. Artemesia*

        I have a relative who is a very well known person and a gazzilionaire. I had that pressure frequently from development officers where I worked in a non-profit. I always shut it down immediately with ‘oh I would never presume on our relationship like that.’ Absolute. No exceptions. They stopped asking. Make it a matter of principle and don’t even discuss it and particularly don’t act as if you are thinking about it. Some things have to be closed down immediately or they are on your forever.

  55. AnonPi*

    So I’ll start by saying suggestions on how to handle a bad situation at work are welcome. So my contract was turned over from one manager to a team leader this month. This was supposedly done by our directorate leader, because he wanted to ensure the ‘real employees’ (I am so sick of hearing that phrase btw) are covered, before giving me any work – which in the 6+ yrs I’ve been here has never been an issue. (Ok so there’s a lot of other backstory crap going on that I’m leaving out for brevity, but this was supposedly the main reason.) Former manager (whom I’m still doing work for) is PO’d about the situation, and has been having it out with the team leader and directorate person over this (still – we knew this was going to happen back in Dec and its still going on). Now I get the manager kvetching at me about it from one side, and the team leader kvetching at me from the other, both acting like I should take sides or help one or the other “win” the “argument or whatever we’re calling this”. So here I am stuck in the middle, trying to placate both, while feeling like a piece of meat or a child’s toy being yanked around. And if I don’t agree with them then they act pissy toward me, when I just wish I could stay out of it. Because I am in a precarious position being just a subcontract, I’m afraid if I complain it’ll make things worse, and I need to hang on as long as possible until I get another job. (I’m also afraid that by these two going at it is going to make so many problems that the directorate leader will just say to hell with it and cancel my contract altogether.) I don’t know how much longer I can put up with this. Any advice???

    1. Chief Detail Officer*

      You *are* aggressively job searching, right?
      It might help if you schedule some one-on-one time with each of them, and explain (not complaining, just matter-of-factly) that you are finding it difficult to be in the middle of a situation like that, and ask for their advice. The probably can’t see things from your perspective, and taking the time to explain your concerns may help.

      But still, like you said, your position is precarious, and I’ve seen top performing subcontractors let go without warning. So don’t just passively wait for things to get better; find the time to network, talk to recruiters, and search for positions. The more active you are the better–even if you end up staying, you’re no longer in a position of weakness if you have other offers to entertain.

      Good luck!

  56. Blue_eyes*

    The blue_eyes/brown_eyes household had a total of 3 interviews and 2 offers this week! Thanks to Alison and all the great commenters for giving such great advice, I know it’s helped us on our way to new jobs.

    Brown_eyes (my husband) is really excited about his job offer. We’re just crossing our fingers right now waiting for his reference check to go through so he can get an official offer letter.

    I had two interviews this week and got an offer on the spot at the first one. I decided to turn it down though because of a bunch of reasons including: bad hiring practices, a weird/bad vibe from the founder, no opportunity to move up, low pay. I really feel like the reading I’ve done here gave me the confidence and knowledge to be able to say no to an offer.

  57. AnotherAdmin*

    About 7 months ago a fulfilled a 1 year contract at a company that has recently contacted me back for two different contract jobs.

    The first one offered me $16 an hour and I immediately asked if they could come up. The recruiter told me that was not possible, so I turned it down because it was way too low. The recruiter called back the next day and offered me $24 an hour and told me the job would continue to extend indefinitely. That’s a much better situation than my current job which pays $28 per hour but is not steady. I interviewed and was told by the hiring manager that the job absolutely would not extend indefinitely and that when it was over, its over. I was offered it but I decided to turn it down because the pay was lower than what I’m doing now and it was so short term that it didn’t make sense.

    Now I have been contacted about a second position and have an interview. This is also contract work but is 1 year long. The pay is also low, only $19 an hour but it would be a lot more over the course of the year. I asked the recruiter if they can come up in the pay and like the other recruiter I was told no.

    If I interview and am offered this job, is it still appropriate to ask the hiring manager if they can pay more? If so, what is the best way to go about that?

    Lastly, if I were to accept the position, do I need to fully commit to the whole year or would it be ok to leave if I was offered a permanent full-time position sometime during the next year? I love this company and really want to work there again, but I also need a permanent job. I’ve been looking for one for years and I haven’t gotten one. Just wondering what my responsibilities would be in this situation and how I could part-ways without messing up my reputation with the company.

    1. AnotherAdmin*

      Complicating matters, I just got another interview with them for a permanent Admin position. Now I really don’t know how to handle this. Do I tell both hiring managers that I’m interviewing for 2 positions there?

    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      If you were told there’s no flexibility, you have to decide if that’s a dealbreaker, obviously. So how much would the second position have to pay in order to make it worth leaving your current position? You need to find that magic number, and if it’s not $19/hr, then if you’re offered the job, you need to tell them that you can’t justify leaving your current position for less than $22/hour (or whatever that number is), and be prepared to walk. But it’s important to put it out there, it may be the recruiter was wrong, or the hiring manager may decide that they want to offer more for you even though their ceiling WAS $19/hr.

      And while I don’t think you want to push them that hard just to leave in a month, I don’t think anyone without a contract should ever be faulted for leaving a part-time or temp position for a FT permanent one.

      1. AnotherAnon*

        The $19 an hour isn’t a deal breaker for a 1 year contract. $16 was a deal breaker for a 4 month contract so I walked. But then what wasn’t flexible before walking away suddenly became more and more flexibleand they increased to $24 and were even willing to offer $28 before I fully turned it down. I make $28 now and already had a contract that overlapped with that time frame and my current position will lead to more work, it’s just not steady, which is tough for me right now.

        I’d take a 1 year position at $19 but I really don’t believe that it’s not flexible. I made much more for a lower level position when I worked there previously. And the job that I turned down was even more low level than that. Ultimately I know they hired someone else with no admin experience for that role at $20 per hour. So I feel that this new one should pay more than that. It’s significantly more technical and involves a lot more responsibility. I just need to figure out how to leverage my previous pay and offers from them. I’m not actually willing to walk away from a job offer for this role, but I still want to negotiate.

        Does it make a difference if I have an extremely solid reputation at this company? Many people know me and my professional references are 2 Sr. Directors from my previous positions there.

        1. The Cosmic Avenger*

          I mean this in the nicest way, but I don’t think your reputation makes any difference….only because it probably hasn’t changed since you first asked about flexibility. Either they are willing to pay you more than $19/hr or they are not, but you asked once and you were told that they weren’t. You probably have one more shot at asking if there’s any flexibility when they make you an offer, especially if you are talking to someone different than the one who told you no the first time, but you have to be prepared to either accept the current rate, or be ready to walk away if they don’t offer at least X/hr ($21? $24?). As you saw with the last position, some people don’t negotiate unless they feel they need to. Unfortunately for us, the employer is usually in a much better position to bluff than the employee, as most positions have more than one applicant, but it’s not exactly common to have multiple offers to choose from.

          The only way you should ever bluff is if you’re ready to go through with it (in this case, passing on the job because of the rate), which means it isn’t really a bluff. Otherwise you will have trouble being taken seriously ever again.

          1. AnotherAdmin*

            Ok, I see what you are saying. (And I didn’t think it was un-nice for the candid response about my reputation. I value honest, candid feedback.)

            To be clear though, I asked a recruiter, who does not know me or my reputation with the company, and who does not actually work for the company, about the pay. I understand that my reputation may not matter but in my experience there is more wiggle room directly with the employer. I’d like to ask, not bluff. I just am not sure how to phrase it and whether I can use the information I have about my previous pay, what other similar positions pay, and what I have been previously offered for a lower level position to ask for more. If the company is willing to come up on what they pay to the agency placing me I could conceivable get paid more by the agency.

  58. Feeling exciting and nervous*

    When my manager denied my raise request, I kind of went over their head and asked their boss. (I didn’t set out to do it, but it came up in an conversation about employee retention.) Boss’s boss gave me a big raise and told me that my manager would be coming around to talk to me about it on Monday. I’m worried that conversation is going to be awkward. Any advice?

      1. Feeling exciting and nervous*

        As a manager, would you be pissed if this went down with one of your direct reports and your boss? That’s what I keep worrying about!

        1. Katie the Fed*

          I wouldn’t be thrilled, but it depends on how well I know the person and how it actually came up. I might also be a little embarrassed that my manager thought my judgement/decision was wrong on the raise.

    2. Apollo Warbucks*

      I’d be pissed off if my boss told me there wasn’t a raise and then I went and got one myself! How little effort did they put in advocating on your behalf? If I was your manager I’d be worrying about me looking infective and letting my team down.

      On a practice level you should just explain that it was unintentional and the circumstances that surrounded the conversation you had with your bosses boss.

    3. Hlyssande*

      If the boss is unhappy about it, I would definitely let them know that it came up organically in conversation, not that you deliberately went over their head. It might not help but, but I’d hope it would help.

      But like Apollo Warbucks, I’d have to wonder why the heck I didn’t get a good raise in the first place – what made your boss think you didn’t deserve it/not push for it, etc?

    4. JMW*

      If I were the manager, I wouldn’t be upset with my employee for going after a raise, but I might be upset with my boss for giving raises to my direct report without consulting me.

    5. Feeling exciting and nervous*

      My manager came to talk to me today. Everything went really well! Manager never asked why I had talked to their boss directly, and kind of made it sound like the two of them had been working behind the scenes to make something happen despite budgetary constraints. I’m not sure if they were saving face, or if they’d really been pushing for me to get a raise. Either way, I reacted with a lot of gratitude and excitement. Thanks all!

  59. anonima in tejas*

    how do you grapple or decide what to do when you feel like your career is a at a fork in the road?

    I’ve been struggling with this and I’d love to hear people’s stories and experiences and how they worked through it.

    1. Sunflower*

      I’m feeling a bit this way- right now, I’m ready to change jobs and I’m deciding which way I want to point my direction in. My plan of action now is putting my resume out there for jobs I’m interested in and reasonably qualified for and seeing what sticks. I think a lot of this is going with your gut and seeing what feels right. I plan on interviewing if the job has potential. Who knows, the company could end up being a great place to work and that might sway me. Just looking to see what’s out there and available can help.

      I’d suggest going to networking events just to see what kinds of jobs are out there and how people got there. Most people can give you a quick rundown of their career in 30 seconds.

  60. squids*

    Open thread!
    My partner was injured at work last week. Sent to Emergency, fixed up, back at work the next day so company could count it as not a lost time incident. After a specialist appointment this week, she’s now off on disability for 4-6 weeks. The company has really terrible local management, and they’re angry about it because lost time incident = smaller bonuses.

    The week in the middle, wearing protective gear over bandages and getting snide comments for working slowly …

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Your partner’s job is horrible. Their first concern should be “Why did this person get hurt (i.e. are our safety practices good enough) and omg is she going to be okay?” not their stupid bonuses. I’d start looking for something else as soon as possible. And I hope she gets better quickly.

      1. squids*

        Yes, definitely already looking for other work.
        It wasn’t life-threatening at any point, but the specialist is concerned about loss of function (hand injuries are complicated!)

    3. littlemoose*

      I understand that the company may want to incentivize adhere to safety protocol, but tying bonuses to lost time incidents like that also incentivizes management to discourage necessary time off, ask people to work when they shouldn’t, etc. That’s a setup for a lousy environment. I hope your partner recovers quickly with no more grief from management.

  61. Gene*

    Update on coworker out for brain tumor.

    He seems to be recovering nicely, talked with him yesterday. He’s expecting a nearly full recovery and actually wants to come back to work. Still no timeline though.

    But, this has prodded us to get rolling on doing some succession planning, any one of us could be gone in a moment.

    3. Gene*

      Just got off the phone with him.

      He must be feeling well, he wants to be sure someone takes care of his plants.

      He says he should be out of the hospital late next week, then possibly back part-time 2 or 3 weeks after that.

  62. Trixie*

    How does one go about getting a CDL? I’m assuming working with an organization willing to train you and let you practice driving their vehicle. (Like a school needing bus drivers.) A woman I tutor for reading is looking for PT work, and was asking about this. And of course this may vary a bit state to state.

    1. MT*

      Very few trucking companies will train you for a CDL, they would require a contract for a long period of time. There are tons of driving schools that will teach you. The problem is that getting a cdl, with all of the training and requirements cost a good chunk of money. Clean driving record, medical evaluations, testing, etc. Getting a CDL just for part time work is a little extreme.

    3. Blue_eyes*

      I worked for a rafting company once and we had school buses to move guests around. Some of the employees had CDL’s and I think the company let them use the buses to train, but it was a pretty friendly, family-like work environment. And of course they always wanted more staff who were trained to drive the buses because it made scheduling easier. I never got my CDL but I did get to drive a bus (without guests) once because my coworker was “training” me to drive it.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I have seen ads for CDL training in the newspapers around here. Look in the classified section.

  63. Allison*

    I have a new co-worker who’s older and more experienced than I am. I respect that she’s been around the block and I don’t mind a little guidance here and there, but there are times where it feels like she doesn’t trust me to do my job properly without massive amounts of instruction. It’s getting to be borderline micromanagement, even though she isn’t actually my superior. She also sometimes insists on doing aspects of my job for me. She tells me I’m doing a great job and she just wants to help, but this seems like one of those situations where someone’s actions speak differently than their words. I’ve tried bringing this up with the manager but the manager just said she’s probably not used to dealing with this particular team structure and doesn’t understand my role just yet. Is there anything I can say to my co-worker to (gently) get her to back up a little and let me do my job?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      “You know, I feel like you’ve done such a great job teaching me that I’m really ready to fly solo – but thanks so much for the offer to help!”

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      “Actually, I’ve got this. But thanks.”
      “I’m good here.”

      There was another thread recently about this. I wish I could remember if it was on a Friday or a question.

    3. HigherEd Admin*

      She tells me I’m doing a great job and she just wants to help, but this seems like one of those situations where someone’s actions speak differently than their words.

      Are you concerned that she thinks you actually aren’t doing your job well? I might approach it as, “Persephone, is there something about my work that concerns you? I’m open to feedback about my performance, but if you don’t have specific concerns, then I’m capable and would prefer to handle this work on my own.”

    4. Vanishing Girl*

      I had a coworker like this! She’d even stand behind me and tell me what to type in emails.

      I think I eventually said something like “I feel comfortable doing this on my own by now, but I’ll let you know if I need some help in the future. Thanks!” She got the message.

    5. Emme*

      If you haven’t already, I’d say something like “thanks, I think I’m ready to try this one on my own, but I’ll let you know if I have any questions”.

    6. NacSacJack*

      What helps me with younger coworkers is when they say, “yep, already did that, yep, got that.” At that point, I get the clue they are savvy enough and back off. Its their career not mine and my career is no gold standard. another thing you could say, “I’m ready to screw it up on my own and take the consequences”, then give her the death stare, reminding her you are her co worker, she is not your mommy.

    7. AnotherFed*

      It sounds like she might think part of her job IS providing guidance and instruction to you. She might be deluded, she might be used to being a first line supervisor, or she might be coming into your office from somewhere that expected more senior employees to be unofficial peer mentor/supervisor types to other employees on the same level as them. I would first check in with the real manager and make sure that it really is you responsible for “your” projects, and then when she begins to overstep, redirect with something like “I appreciate your helpfulness, but I’ve already discussed my approach with Manager X and am good to go. If I run into any questions, I’ll come find you!” If she persists, make it clear that you are the “owner” of whatever project it is and need to get working now.

      It’s also a little concerning that she’s doing parts of your job. It’s not your problem if that’s because she doesn’t have enough of her own work to do, but it’s worth taking a look at your own output and making sure that your quality, timeliness, and accuracy are where they should be.

  64. Lunar*

    Any advice on how to get better at attention to detail? I know that this is my weakest area and I really want to get better at it but I’m just not sure how. I think just being more aware of it is helping me to double check on things and I am trying to do detail oriented tasks earlier in the day when I’m fresh, but conversations with my boss have made me kind of terrified of making mistakes and it is stressing me out. I should mention that these are small things (typos and the like ) – nothing huge but sometimes mean I have to redo work and are definitely adding up in my boss’s eyes (otherwise I get great feedback on my work so it is frusturating and I don’t want this to be what he thinks of when he thinks of my performance).

    1. Manders*

      Catching your own typos is difficult even if you have great attention to detail. It’s just how the human brain functions: http://www.wired.com/2014/08/wuwt-typos/

      Is there any way to get a coworker to proofread everything that needs to be typo-free? You can try reading important documents two or three times, but sometimes you just need another person to check your work.

      What other details are you missing? Are you forgetting certain steps in a process? Are you doing the wrong thing, or using an old procedure after the process has changed? I don’t think there’s a way to force your brain to be more detail-oriented, but you can come up with a system to remind yourself to double check your weak spots before your work is sent off.

      1. Lunar*

        My problem actually usually manifests with things that others have produced. I tend to be meticulous with my own stuff (with occasional typos) but miss them in the work of others’ (although I should utilize these same people who to look over my work too!) I think a big part of it is that I tend to trust work from higher ups and not look at it as carefully as I should which I am working on. My job is not in editing or proofreading or anything but my bosses rely on me to check on things before they are shared (and they make more errors than I had anticipated). The idea of checklists sounds good though! Even reminding myself to check on things I usually miss (common misspellings, dates, addresses – I’m terrible with transposing numbers).

        Typos are my main issue but there are other details I sometimes miss (filing things a certain way or dealing with processes that I only rarely come across). Checklists would be good for that too. Thanks for the advice!

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Do you go through it too fast? That’s where I miss details. I’ve had to force myself to slow down and not whip through assignments. And yes, checklists rule, especially for stuff you don’t do very often!

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Yeah, there’s times where I have to go through it twice. So I divide it up into sections, and do each section twice before moving to the next section.
            My thing is I have long strings of numbers to deal with. I come to a full stop and check what I have entered before moving to the next set of numbers.
            Two years, I have not messed up the numbers yet. Knock wood. But I do labor over getting it right- because I can do a good job of putting in the wrong numbers.

        2. Vancouver Reader*

          I tend to read too quickly and so my brain processes the meaning rather than the word at times. To make myself slow down, I put a ruler down so I have to read line by line and that way, I pay closer attention to what I’m actually reading.

    2. Serin*

      1. Make yourself a checklist of common things to double-check, and then follow it with each document.

      2. Develop a work process that allows you to finish a document, set it aside and do something else, then come back and proofread.

      3. A great way to catch typos is to read things out of order — start with the last paragraph and work your way up. That way you don’t settle into the kind of reading that allows your eyes to skip over typos.

      4. Some things need to be proofed more than once, and some things really need more than one set of eyes. I have always had trouble with numbers, and when I used to do an annual report, I would literally have a co-worker read each number out loud to me while I checked it against what I had typed. Time-consuming but very helpful.

      1. Lunar*

        Thanks for these ideas! It is hard for me because the only other person in my location is the boss (who seems frusturated with my typos) so I’m not sure if I could ask him to help me with this but I will definitely try and implement these!

    3. Wolfey*

      My last firm placed a premium on perfection–they fostered an environment that built in 2nd and 3rd reviews to even the most mundane admin tasks, so we got used to going through indexes or spreadsheets line by frickin’ line to check ourselves. Usually this was to catch typos and such, but I’d also regularly catch bigger mistakes like having pasted the right amount into the wrong column, which threw off calculations. Stuff like that happens, we’re human, but it’s important to catch. Line-by-line was really time-consuming, to be honest, but ultimately our work product there was so much better than my current job, where the attitude is “get it done fast, get it out fast, hope it’s right.”

      My advice would be to take more time and go double-check, double-check, double-check. You’ll start catching slips before they get to your boss and gain confidence. Also, don’t beat yourself up so much. Mistakes occasionally still happen. Own it, don’t make it into a bigger deal than it is, because someone else might take on your own hype over a small issue.

      1. Lunar*

        Thanks for the advice! I think double checking is really the only answer – although other things can help. I try not to beat myself up. I think my boss is a little more sensitive to this kind of thing than others. Other co workers (above me) have reacted to typos (not just mine) with a little more of an attitude that it happens and is understandable and not even that noticeable. At this point I think I am primed for my boss’s reaction. I know it is my problem to deal with and I am trying to improve (I think I have started to already). I agree that that will give me more confidence and I will feel better about everything’s.

  65. Manders*

    I’ve been in an admin job for three years. Since I’m in a small company, I wear a lot of hats, and most of my work is about getting through whatever my boss needs for the day rather than focusing on long-term projects. It’s not a bad position, I’ve come to the realization that I need to be working on larger projects to feel satisfied with my job. This means I’ll have to change companies, since the business is owned by a family I’m not a part of, and the bigger projects are all being assigned to the owner’s children.

    Has anyone successfully moved from an admin/support position to a more specialized position? How did you prove that you were ready to make the switch? I’m the jack of many trades in my current job, but I’m not sure how to demonstrate to a potential employer that I could be the master of one.

    1. HigherEd Admin*

      Is there one specific area where you’d like to focus? If so, I’d start viewing your job description (and your resume/cover letter) through that lens. Additionally, I would focus on transferable skills, like your ability to juggle multiple projects simultaneously or your attention to detail or something along those lines.

  66. Dilemma*

    Our director left recently, and today one of my team, G, told me that she knows a candidate, X, being interviewed for the role. X is married to G’s friend but they are divorcing. G’s friend told her that X has anger management issues, a terrible sexist attitude to women, and hinted he was violent.

    I’m a woman and would work very closely with him, and G and/or I would accompany him on fairly long business trips. G is worried as he knows of her friendship with his wife. I feel uneasy, but obviously this is not work related.

    Should I discuss this with the (female) manager he’d be reporting to? Or do I just ignore this as gossip – he might not get the job anyway!

    1. fposte*

      You’re too removed. G, however, might want to bring up to the hiring manager that she’s friends with his ex and they had a nasty divorce, so she’s unsure about their ability to work together. I’d leave out what the ex says he did and is like unless G has direct experience or there’s a police report.

      1. Chriama*

        I really don’t know that G has an unbiased opinion here given that her friend is divorcing this guy. And even if it is true, how likely is that his behaviour will be like that at work? Obviously you don’t want to work with a jerk, but is he really going to become violent to a coworker (even one who was friends with his wife)? Anyway, I think you can mention something to the hiring manager without getting specific that, if he comes across well in the interviews, you’ve heard things second-hand and would really encourage checking the references of people he worked with (not just his superiors).

    3. Observer*

      This actually IS work related. G needs to talk to the people who would be involved in the hiring decision, so they can check this out. G is the closest to the person, so she is the one who needs to speak up. On the other hand she really doesn’t have first hand information and what comes from a divorcing spouse needs to be taken with a grain of salt in most cases. So, they really need to do some checking, but they really need to do some careful due dilligence.

  67. Jordi*

    I wanted to thank everyone last week who encouraged me to talk to my manager about my coworker who used my vacation photos in his work presentation that featured me in a bikini with some friends at the dead sea.

    I spoke with my manager who talked to my coworker and immediately afterwards I got an apology, although it was an extremely defensive apology where he once again told me how everyone at the meeting thought it was funny. He claimed he used it to talk about the health benefits of the dead sea minerals (how that relates to breast cancer, I don’t know; and why he needed my photo and not a generic dead sea photo, I also don’t know). But then he also made some joke about me needing to cover up and then photoshopped a towel over me in the presentation—which in my mind serves nothing but to point out my lack of clothing. So receiving a forced apology a week after the initial incident where it seemed like he still didn’t really get why his use of my photo was so inappropriate and upset me—well I still haven’t really gotten past this.

    I also got the sense that while my manager fully agreed the use of my photo was inappropriate for work, it seemed like my manager thought it wasn’t severe enough to involve him and I should have dealt with it myself or just moved past it. He was still happy to help me deal with the situation, but my conversation with him both before and after he talked to my coworker made me think that he didn’t see it as a very serious issue, and seemed to imply that most other people would not have gotten upset over this. I could be wrong though, and I don’t know what was said in his conversation with my coworker.

    Things are still awkward, and I hate workplace drama more than anything, but I’ve done what I can and I guess now I just have to move past it.

    1. JMW*

      Wow. You need to convey the seriousness of this to your manager, because clearly it is being missed. I think I would go to my manager and say, “My personal photo is still being used as a part of a work presentation. I want it take out immediately. Bob seems to think this is funny, but I consider it unprofessional and a personal violation.”

      1. fposte*

        I’m not clear if it’s still being used or not–I thought the “and then” meant during the initial presentation. If it is still being used, though, I agree completely.

        1. Jordi*

          No, its not still being used. It was a one time thing but I wasn’t at the presentation and have learned more details after. But he is still defending his use of the photo, insisting it was meant to be funny and that is how the audience took it, and that that makes it okay.

          1. Dynamic Beige*

            You got a non-apology… awesome.

            I think you need to take a new tack and ask him how he would feel if a photo of himself that was not flattering was used in a similar fashion… like a photo from his college days drunk and passed out with a penis drawn on his cheek. I’d be willing to bet he wouldn’t think it was so funny any more. Right now, he’s thinking he did well because that slide in his presentation got laughs — people laughed so it must be OK. He could have easily used a photo of a random woman he found on the internet (I’m not going to get into why that’s still wrong on several levels right now)… but he didn’t. With all the millions of choices of scantily clad women in bikinis out there, he chose to use your photo. And just as a photo of him like the one I suggest above would have made his colleagues view him in a less professional light, so did the one of you in your bikini which unless you are a model for the swimsuit company you both work at, is totally inappropriate.

            If he still doesn’t get it, maybe he needs a taste of his own medicine. I’m sure that if a photo of him was used in a similar way to illustrate a funny point in a presentation someone else made, he would hit the roof.

    2. Ezri*

      “But then he also made some joke about me needing to cover up and then photoshopped a towel over me in the presentation—which in my mind serves nothing but to point out my lack of clothing.”

      This is absolutely terrible. And creepy – so he went and found a personal photo of you in a bikini, and then made an asinine comment about you not being covered? In front of people at work? I… have no words. I can’t believe that your management thinks a defensive apology is sufficient here.

    3. HeyNonnyNonny*

      Yeah, this is still extremely creepy and terrible. And nuts to your manager for making you feel like it wasn’t as bad as it was. Because…terribleness.

    4. AnonAcademic*

      IANAL but this reeks of sexual harassment to me. Any photo of a coworker in a swim suit, male or female, is not appropriate for the vast majority of work presentations. You are not a piece of clip art! Do you have an HR department? I would want the incident on file in case there are any future incidents.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I am sorry you did not get the full support you should have gotten. Hopefully, these two people will think about it and in the future have greater understanding about this stuff. That doesn’t do you a lot of good right now, though.

  68. OriginalEmma*

    It’s Winter Bike to Work day!!!! Everyone participating, please be safe but HAVE FUN! Whether it’s your first ride or your 50, I hope today is full of happiness and camaraderie. And a big ups to all the volunteers that pass out coffee and treats along WBTWD routes! While I can’t say “we love you guys,” because I’m currently saving up for a bike and thus am not participating this year, I’ll say “I know folks out riding today love you guys!”

    Folks who are driving, please keep an eye out for (hopefully) more people who ride bikes during the morning and evening commutes than usual. Ideally everyone follows the rules of the road and wears appropriate reflective gears + front/rear bike lighting, but that might not be true if this is your first bike ride since the fifth grade… so please give a wide mental and physical berth to people riding bikes (wider than the minimum 3-foot-passing-distance your state hopefully already enforces).

    Everyone, commute with care today!

    1. Katie the Fed*

      Ooooh that explains why there were so many bikes out today. It was 12 degrees this morning and people were on their bikes. Crazy folks.

      Oh, and please remember that you are not pedestrians, so you don’t get to come flying across a crosswalk. I actually don’t want to kill any bicyclists, but I swear sometimes they seem to have death wishes around here.

      1. fposte*

        Oh, and arm straight out is a *left* turn, people. I appreciate bikers’ efforts to signal, but a lot of them around my town don’t actually get them right, which makes things worse.

        1. OriginalEmma*

          Are they using their right arms straight-out? That’s actually an acceptable alternative in the US, Canada and other countries for right turning on a bicycle compared to the bent-left-arm-upward signal we’re all used to.

          1. fposte*

            Oh, I hadn’t heard that. When I search I’m seeing it as a bit of a countermovement, but it’s still not the signals dictated by the Uniform Vehicle Code and the NHTSA, so I’d say it’s not yet an acceptable alternative.

            1. OriginalEmma*

              I can’t get my hands on the UVC, since I’m not paying for it, but the wiki I checked stated the UVC recognized both the traditional right-turn hand signal and then, for cyclists specifically, the right-arm-out signal.

          2. HeyNonnyNonny*

            My favorite alternative was a guy I once saw who just literally pointed where he was going to turn. It made so much sense!

      2. OriginalEmma*

        +1000 on the ninjas and salmons roaring up the sidewalk. When on the road or a bike/MUP path, you behave someone riding a bike (which is pretty much the same as someone driving). When on the sidewalk, you behave as if you’re walking – and this means walking your bike!

        Ugh. Let me apologize for all the sidewalk terrors, salmons, ninjas and other bike-riding dingdongs.

        1. Katie the Fed*

          I’ve never heard them described as salmons! Love that!

          My dog got hit by a bike on the sidewalk – he didn’t give us any warning and she, being a spazz, happened to just jump in that direction. He didn’t even apologize. Now my dog is terrified of bikes and tries to jump at them if they get too close. Ugh. Give warnings to people!

    2. Elizabeth West*

      I’d be so scared to ride a bike to my work. It’s clear across town from me, and through a huge construction zone . They are making a diverging diamond at the intersection and soon I won’t even be able to drive that way. Lots of great big scary construction machines.

  69. Anie*

    What do you think about acknowledging tone?

    I have a habit of sounding sarcastic in emails and when speaking. Though I frequently will re-read or try to re-phrase, things slip through. Part of it may be because I don’t come across as particularly sincere. I have no idea why showing enthusiasm for certain things seems mocking….

    When I can tell my words may be misinterpreted, I generally notice right away. For my friends, I’ve occasionally just added an additional email/text that says “no sarcasm” or say “not sarcasm” during an in-person conversation.
    In my somewhat informal office, for these moments, it would be better to just say, “Oh, sorry, I wasn’t being sarcastic” if that happened, as opposed to not addressing it and risking offense, right?

    Example: A couple of people at my office hated the idea of a holiday party this past December. While talking about it, I made some small comment along the lines of “This sounds like so much fun!” Therefore, all the people in favor of the party thought I was being a mocking b**** and everybody against the party were amused/horrified at how openly mocking I was being. BUT I ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT SOUNDED FUN!

    1. Ezri*

      Are you me? I don’t have any advice, sadly, but I’ve spent my whole life with people blowing up over innocuous comments that apparently had an unintended tone. I even go out of my way to be smiley when I’m talking to people, and still get the ‘cold’ accusations.

    2. katamia*

      I have the opposite problem sometimes, actually–I’ll say the most outrageous thing as a joke, something no one could possibly expect to be serious/true, and then everyone will somehow believe me so I have to backtrack.

      One thing that might help in the party scenario would be getting specific–if they had certain activities or a theme or something that you thought made it sound especially fun, maybe focus on that detail and how that would be fun instead. (Do normal offices have holiday party themes? Pretty much all my knowledge of office holiday parties has come from The Office, which…may not be the most reliable source on this. ;) ) Same for projects you might be excited about, etc.

    3. HeyNonnyNonny*

      Sometimes I worry that I “sound” condescending if I say “Thanks for sending me the teapot specs.” My solution is to add an extra line– I feel like that somehow shows that my first statement was genuine. Like, “Thanks for sending me the specs, Jane. Sorry about the short deadline/I’ll let you know if I have any questions.” So in your case, I might say “That sounds fun! Let me know if there’s something I can do to help make this happen.” I guess I think it’s harder for people to ‘find’ sarcasm in longer notes?

      …I hope that made sense…

      2. Katie the Fed*

        yeah that’s kind of what I was thinking – add a little more context/detail to your response to show that you’re being genuine.

    4. Mephyle*

      If your tone is often misinterpreted, you might ask a speech therapist whether that is something they could help you with.

  71. Hooray!*

    I’ve asked before about managing my gloomy office environment. (Great co-workers, but our space is a windowless, labyrinthine basement with over-zealous AC.) Our brand-new President/CEO started the job, looked around, and announced we were re-locating. Literally! I’m jumping around with glee.

    My question: I will have a smaller office in the new location (which is fine with me), and I’d like to go as minimal and paperless as possible. Any great office minimalism ideas?

    1. CrazyCatLady*

      It’s certainly not a new idea, but almost anything I get in paper form, I scan and file on my computer and then throw away the paper. I HATE paper. I keep one notebook where I write my to do list every single day. If I take notes during a meeting, I quickly type them up in One Note and then throw away the handwritten notes. If there are other ideas, I’d love to hear them!

    2. AnotherFed*

      Don’t give yourself any space for paper. Park a non-wheeled chair in front of any drawer/filing cabinets, and take up your desk space with other things – plants, white board (you can paint the desktop with white board paint – I so want to do this, but can’t “deface government property”), whatever. If there’s no space for the paper to inhabit, it doesn’t accumulate.

  72. CrazyCatLady*

    I was taking some career/personality tests last week and one suggested career was a forensic accountant/auditor. Does anyone here do this for work? It sounds fascinating to me and I think I’d be really good at it (but would have to go back to school).

    If you do any type of auditing work, even if it’s not for accounting, can you tell me more about it and what your background is?

    1. LittleLIT*

      Do those tests actually work? I’m feeling more than a little lost with what I’d like to do for a job but thought those tests were a fool’s hope.

      1. CrazyCatLady*

        I don’t know if they really work, but my results were pretty spot-on and the careers they suggested definitely would suit my personality. If you Google “Truity Type Finder Research Edition”, you’ll find the test. It’s basically a version of the Myers-Briggs but I liked this one. Let me know what you think!

    2. Malissa*

      I’m not one, but I’ve had much training related to forensic accounting. The background training is a combination of accounting and IT. To get credentialed you either have to get your CPA first or get a CFE (Certified Fraud Examiner) credential. Both require at least a four year degree.

      1. CrazyCatLady*

        Thanks! The background training and credentials sound interesting and doable for me. Do you know if a Masters or higher is preferred usually?

        1. Malissa*

          Mastes is almost a requirement for the CPA, but not for the CFE. If you are lacking on either the accounting or IT but have a BS, then getting a masters wouldn’t be a bad idea for getting up to speed on skills.

    3. Ann Furthermore*

      I have a friend whose bachelor degree is in economics, and she is a senior audit manager. It sounds really interesting, she’s worked for a few big companies and you get to learn how everything works/happens as part of the audit process.

        1. Ann Furthermore*

          It’s internal audit, and there is usually some component of financial auditing involved, but it can be other stuff too. She worked for a chain restaurant for a couple years, and got to travel all over the world doing internal audits at their locations. Then for awhile she was a senior internal audit manager at a waste management company, and she learned the inner workings of that business too. She said that even though garbage isn’t really that glamorous, it was still interesting to learn how the facilities work, how things are sorted for recycling, and so on.

          Jobs like that often require a fair amount of travel, so if that’s not for you, beware. I did software consulting for awhile and traveled every week, plus I travel a fair amount now for my job. The perks are great — frequent flyer miles, hotel points, and all the rest of it. But if you have a family it’s hard to be on the road all the time.

          1. CrazyCatLady*

            I LOVE travel and have always wanted a job that would allow me to travel more, so it would be perfect. Do you mind me asking how she started out and how her career progressed, if you know? Does she have any certifications or degrees aside from her Bachelor’s in Econ?

    4. BritCred*

      I did some minor auditing work by auditing Sales Ledgers for a Factoring Company in the UK. In this (very specific ) case it included checking out Invoice transactions, confirming incoming payments against the bank account and the allocation of them against the remittance vs. suppliers system.

      One of the fun things was confirming the current ledgers with the customers. We’d ask a number of questions: have you got invoice X (real invoice), how much is it for, when and and what was your last payment, what disputes you have etc…. All to confirm that the were real and the supplier (who would be our client) wasn’t lying. If we suspected they had a fake client down then we’d ask if they had Invoice Y (not their invoice) and see if they said yes…

      We’d also check to see General Ledger transactions were being processed right so that liabilities and losses weren’t being hidden, that their own suppliers records were correct etc.

      Its a strange side of the auditing world but if you have a head for figures and for confirmation etc. it can be fun. The main auditors used to spend most of their time on the road usually in the auditees office for 1-3 days each company then write a report and restart with a new company. Some of the work would get brought back to us in the office which is what I have described above.

      Side story: I did once get handed a file and get asked “whats wrong with it” (with a forewarning that it was “bad”). Company A Ltd had Company A Inc address and company number, purchase orders were faxed and obviously distressed and on closer look turned out to be a mock up (which a “faxed” copy can hide easily), phone numbers didn’t track at ALL to the ones that were registered to said companies…… Yep, fraud. All completely made up to run a scam on the funding company until they clicked something was wrong – obviously I’m limited on what else I can say regarding that matter!

      1. BritCred*

        My work was done from the main office as a business to business debt collector but occasionally I was asked to help out the audit department due to our knowledge – they had more process and “checking” knowledge so rattling off a few confirmation calls and confirming independently company names and addresses etc. was something we could do from the office a lot easier than they could from the auditees office.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I might be imagining things- but didn’t we have a forensic accountant reading here that someone suggested would be a great interview for Alison?

  73. PL1111*

    My department (respected retail establishment noted for its management training) is staffed by a few former laid off corporate managers and other such professionals (including myself).
    Who has our manager designated as he “second in command”? Not the assistant manager, who gets left out of the loop, but her 18 year-old Mini-Me. So we get treated to a teenager barking orders at us and shooting off texts to the manager when she gets pissed off. The manager doesn’t seem to get that this kid only works when she’s around (even when the manager’s superiors tell her this). Bleh.

  74. Van Wilder*

    I manage a team for a project that recurs every year, with multiple deadlines (medium one in the spring, big one in early fall, and small ones year round). Towards the end of the summer, the team ends up working crazy hours. Late nights (midnight or later), plus one or two weekends. As I understand it (I am relatively new), this is an improvement from previous years where every summer weekend including 4th of July weekend was worked.

    Even though things are getting better, as we ramp up for the spring deadline, we’re losing people (one person’s last day was today; another one has told us she will be leaving after the spring deadline, and I’m afraid more might leave). My senior manager and I do what we can to try to make things better (group dinners, working together/making jokes, playing music, casual dress, flexibility in working from home/coming in late) in addition to the company benefits (snacks, car service, more food).

    We had a meeting with the team to brainstorm how we can improve this project. They all say that it’s not us and it’s things out of our control. (Mainly: we just need more people. We don’t have hiring powers and have already talked to leadership, although I am trying other avenues to see if we can borrow staff or if I can help with recruiting but still, we are losing experienced people and hoping to gain newbies.)

    FYI, everyone is salaried and the pay is very good but these people are in their twenties and I can’t blame them for wanting to enjoy their summers. Just hoping someone out there might have some ideas I haven’t thought about on how to make an unbearable work schedule bearable.

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      Could you actually plan the late nights and weekend work ahead of time? So, people know exactly which nights they will be working till 10 or the weekends that get killed? Then they can plan vacations and dates and what not. Not sure if that’s possible but it might help.

      1. Van Wilder*

        No, just the general time of year. In fact, last year we missed one of our in-between deadlines and the week after (which should have been safe for vacations) ended up being crazy.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      Sounds an awful lot like a new product launch in advertising! Here’s what I have done, and what my company does, to try and make it more bearable:

      Me:
      * Rotate coverage as much as possible. The work during a launch is such that *somebody* needs to be in the office at almost all times, but the whole team, thankfully, does not need to be available all the time — some other departments might prefer it that way, but I push back hard on “what do you want?” vs “what do you NEED and how can I achieve that with minimal burnout for my team?”
      * Don’t just rotate coverage, but have a PLAN for rotation of coverage. I would have my team meet every Thursday afternoon to decide the plan for the coming weekend and late-night coverage for the following week. That way people knew which days they could schedule an evening or weekend activity for (or, hell, know which day they could do their freakin’ laundry). I *never* had to assign days because people (myself included) spoke up and volunteered for the days they didn’t care about so that they could have the days they did care about.
      * Get your own hands dirty. Some people at my job title handle a launch by making the junior people take ALL the late nights, while they leave at 6 every day. Those people generally do not retain their staff once the launch is over and the team actually has time to go on job interviews.

      The company:
      * Freelance/temp support where possible to relieve full-time staff. Maybe the higher-ups are unwilling to commit to hiring a new person because they’re afraid of the long-term impact of their salaries, but if it’s possible to find temps who can help with at least some of the work, that goes a long way.
      * Don’t quibble about the price of ordering dinner. (In our case — the agency makes more money the more hours we work, but we, as exempt employees, do not. So spend the extra few bucks on a GOOD meal for your staff.)
      * Drawers filled with the team’s favorite snacks, to be raided at all hours of the night.
      * Spot bonuses.

  75. TotesMaGoats*

    So, a fellow director in my sister department had to fire an employee yesterday. It was a long time coming both in putting up with a really bad attitude and because HR drug their feet on the paperwork. The employee wasn’t performing at the acceptable level despite being given clear direction and an unofficial PIP. I would’ve fired her long ago but that’s another story. The firing was done as professionally and respectfully as possible but (because our teams work in the same place), I’m hearing rumbles from people not understanding why this happened. Since I know all the back story, I want to say “hey, this person had multiple chances to improve and has had a nasty attitude from day 1. This is the direct consequence of not improving performance when told specifically what to improve.” But I can’t and it’s really frustrating.

    1. Van Wilder*

      Maybe a vague “People’s job performance is a private matter and you wouldn’t know about every conversation that went on behind closed doors…” or something.

    2. Anon Accountant*

      Is it wrong to say “There are times when things aren’t working out and it’s best to part ways”? Or “We wish Jane success in her future endeavors” as a polite blanket statement of well wishes.

    3. The Cosmic Avenger*

      What about responding to the effect that you know the fellow director, and they are very reasonable and thorough? Rather than commenting about the fired employee, which we all know would be inappropriate, can you defend it solely mentioning the other director? Do you think that might help? Or even saying something like although the specifics are confidential, that you are aware of the details and you think it was handled very professionally by management?

  76. Mimmy*

    Last night, a friend told me about an opportunity to facilitate a family group once a week (I think); he wasn’t sure if it’s paid or volunteer. He said the location was in a city that isn’t too far from me, so I gave him the go ahead to look into it. I looked up the organization on the national website (it’s a nationwide, well-known organization), and none of the cities listed was not what my friend had cited. It was a little similar–think Woodtown vs. Townwood. I don’t know if my friend got the city’s name mixed up or if the agency just didn’t update their info on the national site. The way we left it was that he’d get back in touch with me. If the site of these groups is where I think it is, there is no way I can do it due to transportation issues.

    So my question is: Should I point this out to my friend? I didn’t have the heart to write back, but I think I should so he doesn’t waste anyone’s time pursuing this opportunity. (Plus, if it’s volunteer, I’d rather not do it…I’m ready for something paid!!)

    1. Persephone Mulberry*

      I think it totally makes sense to shoot your friend an email along the lines of, “I was checking out that facilitator opportunity you mentioned, and I didn’t see Townwood on the list. Is it a new group? Or maybe you were thinking of Woodtown?” And see what he says.

      1. Mimmy*

        Thanks – just sent him a note. We’ll see what he says. I’ve never facilitated a group, TBH, so it might not be the right fit for me anyway.

  77. Alison with one L*

    As a follow-up to my above question about general conference tips, I have a more specific question:

    I got my current job at a Facility’s Tea Pot Improvement office through a networking connection who worked for the Corporate Tea Pot Improvement office. This networking connection (let’s call him Sven) soon became my mentor and met with me regularly. He was basically in charge of the Corporate Tea Pot Improvement office.
    A few months ago, Sven basically disappeared. We didn’t get much information from our Corporate office, except that he no longer worked there. I had a mentoring call scheduled with him for not too long after and he never reached out, so I expected that either (a) he was no longer interested, (b) he didn’t have my contact info, or (c) he felt it would be inappropriate to continue to mentor me given the nature of his departure (Which remains a mystery to us all).

    Anyway, so fast-forward a few months to now: I will be going to a conference next week for an organization that Sven is highly involved in. He has already reached out using the contact information I used to register (he’s involved enough to have access to this info, so that’s not weird). We plan to meet up for coffee or something at the conference.

    Here’s my question:
    (1) Do I mention to my boss that I’m meeting up with him? (I don’t really have coworkers, just 2 bosses)
    (2) Should I avoid talking about work stuff when I meet up with him? Is there anything I should not divulge or not ask?
    (3) Is there anything else that might present a problem that I haven’t even thought of yet?

    Thanks in advance.

    1. Van Wilder*

      (1) – Depends on your boss. If she’s normal, I think it would be fine to say you’re getting coffee with Sven. That said, I don’t think it’s her business so there’s nothing wrong with not mentioning it (or you could tell her afterwards that you saw him). People leave companies for all kinds of reasons and former coworkers stay in touch. No reason it has to be weird.
      (2) – Fine to talk about how people are doing. General direction of company. Even general work complaints are something I might indulge in if I were close with Sven (although I don’t know if AAM would approve). Obviously, don’t talk about clients or confidential matters.
      (3) – It might be awkward. He might want to trash people at the company. He might want to know more about the company than you’re comfortable talking about. But if he’s a professional, it should be fine.

    2. sittingduck*

      1) I do not think you need to mention this to your boss (because of my answer #2)
      2) You should avoid talking about work stuff specific to your company. You can talk about general industry things, as long as it is not about your work at your current company. If he happens to ask about work specific things I would say something along the lines of ‘I don’t feel comfortable talking about specific work, but lets talk about XYZ instead’
      3) I think it is fine to have contact with him, and even continue your mentor relationship, but I’d be careful to be diligent about #2. Since you don’t know why or how he left your company, you don’t want to get in the middle of it in any way. Not that you should assume he’s trying to do that, but just to save your own butt.

      That is my opinion at least.

  78. louise*

    So often on here, I see that HR has done something especially stupid (payroll mistake and open enrollment mistake from earlier this week come to mind) so I’d like to know:

    What’s something that makes you feel like HR is doing a good job? What makes you feel like they are on your side, but still allows them to work for the company like they are supposed to?

    That’s a really general question, I realize, but I’ve been in HR for only 8 months. I started the HR dept from scratch in a very blue collar environment and it is definitely baby steps. I’d just like to hear any kind of feedback about what you have seen or wish you would see that’s good.

    1. ZSD*

      Good things:
      -When they keep things confidential, and assure me that they will do so.
      -When they respond promptly to my tricky retirement questions. (This happened yesterday; I had a comparatively complicated question about pensions, and both the HR people I wrote to responded to me with good clarifications within the hour.)

      The confidentiality one is big.

    2. AnonPi*

      Steps in on employee’s behalf when their managers are in the wrong about things such as how raises, promotions, reviews, etc are handled.
      e.g. where I work managers are supposed to do yearly performance reviews, and decided he was too busy so told his direct reports to write them and he’d sign off on them (without actually reading them). That’s a big big big no-no here, and in fact the direct reports could have gotten in trouble for doing this too. So one of them went to the HR person in our division, and she stepped in and told the manager he had to do the reviews himself. And did so in a way that the direct reports didn’t get flak over it (I presume she didn’t specify who complained so that helped).

    3. JMW*

      When someone comes to you with a complaint or concern, give them the options for how it can be handled and ask which they would prefer. People like to feel they have some control.

      If you are following up on something for an employee, communicate regularly about it. Transparency builds trust. Information reduces fear. If you need to communicate with management about an issue that someone has brought to you, explain that you will be doing that and involve them in the process if it is appropriate and they agree to it.

      Don’t promise confidentiality you can’t keep. Try to warn people before they speak about something confidential that there are certain things you must report.

    4. Natalie*

      Some things my HR does that I specifically appreciate:

      – they are tied with our tax department for best organized, most up-to-date Sharepoint site. I am always that the documents there are accurate and up to date
      – Policy changes are communicated clearly, usually more than once. (This, unfortunately, is unusual in my organization.)
      – They answer questions clearly and kindly, and fix things quickly and without trying to pass blame. (Again, unfortunately unusual in my organization)
      – Flexibility where possible. I’ve turned in FSA and health care enrollments late, because I just lost track of the date, and my HR person has always been willing to process them

    5. Johr*

      Not sure if this is going to be helpful or not, but coming from someone that has worked in HR and Payroll for 6 years, employees usually only notice us when something goes wrong (or is perceived to be wrong), ie a erformance issue, a termination, a payroll mistake, etc. Still, we strive to do a lot of what other people have mentioned – be available and responsive with questions and remedy any issues as soon as possible. A lot of people don’t understand that things like open enrollment periods are governed by policies that have been underwritten into plan documents so transparency and communication are super important.

    6. Observer*

      You’ve gotten some good suggestions.

      The three things that I think are the most important are:

      1. Do the job correctly and with seriousness. No oe is perfect, but if you really care about doing it right, it generally comes through.
      2. When the ineveitable mistakes happen (becaue no one is perfect), acknowledge the problem and its seriousness, apologize sincerely and do everything possible to fix it. Don’t act put upon, or in any way that makes the person feel stupid or as if you blame them for the problem. And, don’t ever leave someone in the air because it’s not “convenient” to fix it.
      3. Be as flexible and transparent as you can be. When you can be flexible, be so. When you can’t, try to help people understand what the issue is.

  79. C Average*

    I met fellow AAMer Stephanie today for coffee, as I’m in her area for a visit. It was fun to put a face with a name! She’s every bit as cool in real life as she is online. I’ve been making Internet friends since the late ’90s and, despite the misgivings of friends and family about actually meeting people I only know online, my no-serial-killers-or-creepers streak remains blessedly intact.

      1. Stephanie*

        Weather here is pretty fabulous right now. But I keep the gloating to a minimum since I know what awaits me in like 2-3 months. Just keep me in mind when you have your summer evenings with lightning bugs and I’m doing outdoorsy things at 6 am to avoid the heat.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      So cool!

      My family has trouble with the whole internet friends thing. My mum in particular had a hard time wrapping her head around the fact that there are real people at the other end of my communications. “You should find some real friends instead of internet friends!” You should have heard my dad when I started dating one of them (my ex).

    4. Mimmy*

      I met up with a woman through a fan club website to attend a concert together (with my husband and her mom). My sister had a FIT when I told her. She did end up being bad news a few years later though, lol. Since then, I’ve been very careful about who I meet online.

    5. Stephanie*

      Aw, thanks! You were pretty cool and non serial killer yourself. :) I still want an AAM convention.

  80. CollegeAdmin*

    I am a finalist for an internal position at work with a different department – we’ll say Department K. My coworker-friends aka office mates know (they are rooting for me and helped run interference during interviews) but my bosses do not. I was quietly encouraged to apply for the job by the head of the Department K; if he wanted to officially headhunt me for the position, he would have had to tell my bosses, which everyone knows would be a bad idea.

    The other day, I was contacted by the head of yet another department – Department L – who pitched a job to me that I’m also very interested in. (Actually, it’s more in line with what I’m looking for than the job with Department K – instead of teapot design being one of my main tasks, it would be my main responsibility, which is what I’m interested in.) The head of Department L contacted my bosses’ boss and told him that he was going to pitch this job to me, so this is an official recruitment. It would be a completely internal search first (unlike the job for Department K, which has external finalists as well), so my chances would be better as well.

    The question: If I get offered the job by Department K, what should I do? I think I would turn it down and hope for the job with Department L; it’s risky, but I think it’s a better career move if it works out. If I do this, how much information should I give Department K when I decline – should I tell them I’m in the running for something with Department L? I’m still in the flustered/stunned stage that I’ve been wooed by two different departments for higher levels jobs with much higher paychecks this early in my career.

  81. Sir Anon of Pemberley*

    (I know this isn’t really anon since Alison can see the IP address but here goes.)

    My workplace is part of a back-to-work training placement program and we often have people in who are getting back on their feet or are easing into the workforce. Recently we have a person in who is on the autism spectrum. The goal of the placement is to get the individual acclimated to a workplace. My concern is that this is not a very welcoming environment as the manager and other coworkers feel that the right approach is to “force” the placement to perform repetitive tasks, often while standing. Which can be difficult, if you are not used to standing for hours at a time on concrete. Naturally the placement has called in several times saying they are not able to come in. I’m not the contact for the work placement – the manager is – and I think they are on a different page than here as to how much accommodation is permissible. Compounding that is when I gave the placement instructions I was criticised by manager as being too lenient.

    Actually, let’s rephrase this. I’m planning on leaving – it’s a toxic work environment, this is only a small aspect of it – should I mention something to the work placement social agency? Or is it none of my business? I feel terrible for how the placement is being treated.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Does this person have a job coach? If yes, can the job coach help?

      Is there a mat to stand on? Standing on concrete all day really does a number on the body.

    2. Jean*

      I don’t know the right thing to do here in terms of workplace strategy, but it seems to me that it’s never wrong to speak up against an injustice. (Oy, that sounded pompous! Sorry.) I would drop a word to the work placement social agency. It’s not helpful for them to go on thinking that placement in your workplace is helpful if their clients are instead having a variety of crummy experiences. Also, if your workplace is getting any financial benefits from this toxic arrangement…that’s not right! If your workplace can’t shape up, the placement agency needs to find a more supportive partner organization.
      Disclaimers: 1) I am not a lawyer (or a llama); 2) I _am_ the mom of someone on the autism spectrum. #2 probably explains my restrained ferocity on this topic. It’s better NOT to be a work placement training site than to have all of the clients getting stressed out instead of learning workplace skills. Grrrrrr.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yeah, I agree with this. The company is not doing any favors by keeping people there and then not assisting them as necessary. People are not “plug and play”.

        I worked in human services for years and it was well known that SOME companies would hire people just so they looked good to the public on paper or because they felt the could get help at a cheaper rate. It had absolutely nothing to do with good intentions of helping individuals. And, we, in the human service field were VERY much aware of the “good doers” who were actually users.

        The thing to know is that word like this goes around, quickly. And you would be surprised how many people know that a particular company is using people with disabilities for their own gain. Lawyers know, employment people know, county agencies know, this has much farther reaching impact that I can describe here.

  82. Nancypie*

    I’m part of a new department within a well established organization. Despite having a mandate to accomplish specific things, I’m having trouble convincing people that I need to partner with to: include me, share necessary data, discuss things with me, etc. I keep plugging away on my PR campaign, but meanwhile, does anyone have any suggestions for books, etc. that will help me getting people who are resistant to get on board? I also welcome suggestions on keeping my spirits up :)

  83. Question for HR and hiring managers (Part 1)*

    I was curious about more specific numbers after reading this post: https://www.askamanager.org/2009/06/how-hiring-process-works-on-employers.html
    What are some average numbers where I’ve placed question marks? Thanks in advance!

    300 applicants
    ??? after quick scan
    ??? after longer scan
    10 phone interviews
    4-5 in-person interviews

    Working with an internal recruiter:
    300 applicants
    ??? HR screens
    ??? presented to hiring manager

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’ve been involved in hiring, but only at small places (not large companies), so it’s typically been about 50-100 applicants, 20 after a quick scan, 5-10 phone interviews, 3-5 in-person interviews. That’s sans recruiter.

    2. HR Manager*

      This is entirely dependent on the position and industry. In some of my positions and industries the numbers are more like 500 applications -> 50 after quick scan –> 15 after long scan –> 7 phone interviews –> 3-5 in person interviews. And then I have some that are over 500 applicants —> 5 after quick scan –> 5 after long scan….so on and so forth.

      On the other end, I have dealt with 3 applicants –> and go down from there. There is very little whittling because of the niche fields. And then there are numbers like Anonymous Educator above.

    3. AnotherFed*

      I’m a fed, so no recruiter and all the specialness of government hiring, but here’s my guesstimates:

      Entry level (typically new college graduate, less than 3 years relevant experience):
      300ish applicants in the system for entry level hiring (not specific to any one position, just all the candidates who apply to basic engineering and science postings)
      40 after quick scan
      <10 after long scan, prioritized
      phone interview until we find as many keepers as we have positions
      almost no in-person interviews for entry level

      Experienced (GS-11 or higher):
      ??? total applicants
      <10 make HR cert
      3-5 worth interviewing (if we are very lucky!)

  84. Question for HR and hiring managers (Part 2)*

    Which would a hiring manager prefer, both of whom seem like great fits: A very eager candidate who mentions that the company is their top choice? Or a candidate who has multiple offers (because they’re amazing) and needs a week to think about it? I can think of pros/cons to both…

    2. JMW*

      Depends on the position. For an early career position, enthusiasm to learn is desirable. For a later career position, I want the amazingly skilled person and will wait for him or her.

      1. Question for HR and hiring managers*

        Overall I guess it doesn’t matter, but I think your point is interesting. Would you feel the same way about “enthusiasm for a specific company and its culture” (not just eager to learn)?

        1. JMW*

          I like enthusiasm for the mission of the company. If you hire someone who believes in what you are doing, motivation is taken care of. This is really helpful when someone is early career and has a lot to learn.

          I worry about enthusiasm for “culture” or “company name” though, as it is really hard for someone to evaluate your culture before working there. They could have incorrect assumptions. I have hired two different people who told me in interview that THIS is the place they really want to work; one worked out and the other found it wasn’t what she thought it was and left after two months.

    3. Random Name*

      All else equal, I’d want the more enthusiastic person. But rarely are two candidates equal. So I agree with Katie the Fed…best fit for the job.

  85. Anoners*

    Yeah, it’s a weird situation, but it’s over now so just move forward and try not to think about it. I’m sure everyone who actually saw the pic didn’t give it a second thought / would think he’s a total weirdo if they knew he stole it from your Facebook. Don’t let this jerk take up any more of your emotional energy (easier said, obviously). He’s in the wrong not you, so just try to put it out of your mind (or find a really embarrassing pic of him and post it in your next presentation).

  86. AAA*

    Oh man, I’m so bummed about my job. I started this *amazing* position in July, but I’m now terrified that the whole company is tanking. My department has shrunk from 12 people to 7 people in the past month, both because of some of our department temp contracts not being renewed (essentially layoffs) and because of two people leaving to pursue other things. I just found out that another very important person (not in my department, but someone my department depends on a lot) is leaving at the beginning of next month.

    We don’t have any new projects from clients secured (though theoretically we have at least one that we hope goes through soon) I’ve heard through the grapevine that the company has 3 months of reserve cash, but after that we are kind of out of money. I love my job, but I’m starting to think I’m on a sinking ship. I’ve only been here 7 months, which seems like too soon to start job hunting, but should I be? I really don’t want to find another job, but I’m worried I’m just putting my head in the sand if I don’t start looking…what would you do in my situation?

    1. Anon Accountant*

      Update your resume, write a great cover letter, network and job search. Job searches can take months or even longer so the sooner you start the better. There’s not any harm in seeing what’s out there and it’s perfectly understandable to leave a sinking ship.

    2. Random Name*

      Have you talked to someone higher up who can give you more background that you might not be aware of? For example, that they plan on rehiring for the positions people voluntarily left or they’re proposing on new clients, etc.

      1. AAA*

        There is no plan to fill the positions in the immediate future. The leadership in the company is pretty opaque. They just say that they’ve weathered downturns in business like this in the past (which is true, but it involved some not great things like not paying contractors on time, getting rid of direct deposit because they weren’t sure they had to cash to cover payroll, etc.) It seems pretty clear that them leaving voluntarily was a relief. Certainly, if one of the people on my team hadn’t left, I’d be pretty concerned that I’d be laid off. As of now, I don’t think I will be since I’m the only one left in my department with my skillset.

        My last job search took 18 months, and that only really ended 7 months ago! I just don’t want to start looking. But it sounds like I might have to…

        1. littlemoose*

          I think you will want to at least start looking around. As others have mentioned, job searches can take a lot longer than expected, and there’s no harm in starting now. Hope for the best but plan for the worst.

  87. Belinda*

    Hi! Had an interview last Tuesday, thought it went ok but I was kind of rusty. Employer said they’ll get back to me by Friday last week. It’s been a week. Should I follow up by phone or email and what do you think is important to say? (I did send a thank you letter after the interview already.) thanks!

    1. Malissa*

      Move on and if they get back to you yet be happily surprised. Otherwise be happy that you aren’t working for people who can’t keep their word.
      It’s seriously sad how many companies just won’t get back to a person after an interview.

  88. Random Name*

    What do you think about emailed replies that are just “thank you” or “thanks”? I like to keep my inbox clean and these emails are something I delete immediately and would rather not get at all. Especially when I’m on a group email and the “thanks” is not for me.

    This happens a lot at my current company but didn’t happen at other companies I was at before so maybe it’s a company culture thing.

    1. Sadsack*

      I see someone thanked me, delete it, and move on. The person who wrote it is either just being polite or is extremely appreciative of something. How is it a bad thing either way? It takes a few seconds to click the email, read the word thanks, and click delete. At least that’s what I think about it.

      1. Sadsack*

        Thinking on it further, I sometimes send thank you emails. Not always, but sometimes, and I can’t even say what makes me send a thank one time and not another. Just depends.

    2. JMW*

      They are acknowledging that they have read what you sent and expressing appreciation. These are nice things in general.

      1. Random Name*

        I guess it’s the most annoying when I’m copied on emails and the “thanks” goes to everyone on the string, not just the person that deserves the gratitude. It just clogs up my inbox. I actually have 5 Outlook inboxes that I monitor and 3 of them are for action items that need to be addressed quickly. 3 of us monitor these 3 inboxes. So we notify the person that we processed their request by email and they reply with “thank you.” But we may not see that till the next day because we process the oldest emails first, and it makes our inbox volume appear higher so we feel behind when we see the unread total so high. But even beyond that, I think the thank you emails are unnecessary unless I did something above and beyond.

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, I think you’ve got a bit of a culture clash here. There’s nothing you can do about the practice, even the reply-all thing, that wouldn’t be obnoxious and futile anyway; your choices are accept it gracefully or accept it annoyedly.

          But seriously, take this as a sign that you’re in a culture where thanks are considered important and valuable. Your view of when it’s needed is fine when it comes to people thanking you, but you risk being out of step if you’re seen as stingy with thanks. It’s an easy problem to avoid, and I don’t think it’s a hill worth dying on.

          1. Random Name*

            Yes, I agree with what you said about the appearance of not being stingy with the thank yous and I now do the same thing so as not to come off as ungrateful. Though I do not reply to all with the thanks if it’s a group email. But I still wish the thanks was just implied.

            1. fposte*

              I’m with you on skipping out on the reply all. Though I have learned some interesting things from other people’s use of it.

        2. Natalie*

          I think you may be taking the “thank-you” part a little too literally. Generally when I send a “thanks” it’s just a pleasant read-receipt. I’m not weeping in gratitude for the spreadsheet I asked for, just telling you I got it.

          1. Natalie*

            Gah, hit post too soon.

            The real problem seems to be the way your inboxes are organized. If I was sending emails that said “received” or “got it” you’d have the same problem. A system that either a) routes action items to their own list or b) filters acknowledgement emails to a separate area would be more effective than assuming each unread email is going to require action.

          2. fposte*

            I’m remembering Jamie’s response to “Thanks!” with the exclamation point: “It wasn’t a kidney.”

        3. JMW*

          I am reminded of Hildi’s recent interview with Allison where she talked about task-orientation vs relationship-orientation. You are likely a task-oriented person, so not appreciative of the extra work involved with “unnecessary” emails. For a relationship-oriented person, the lack of such emails might feel downright rude and therefore completely necessary.

          I recently read a book about feedback, and how different people give and receive feedback. There are people I work with who would worry that I did not like what they sent if I did not respond with at least a “thanks.”. They need that feedback, as perfunctory as it is.

      2. HeyNonnyNonny*

        I think a lot of people do it to show that they HAVE read what you sent. Think of it like a pleasant read receipt.

    3. fposte*

      In general, the merits of being thankful outweigh the deficit of having to delete an email.

      And good catch that this is a sign of a different culture; be aware that you might be remiss if you don’t sent thanks yourself.

    4. jillociraptor*

      I think of it as just closing the loop — the final step in confirming that everything’s been resolved. I appreciate getting that final “thanks, all good” message so I know I can file away the thread and be done with it!

    5. HR Manager*

      I extend thank you’s via email, but only to the originator of the email – not the other people copied in there, unless it was truly a team effort. I don’t thank someone 5 x in a day though. At some point – I assume the originator knows that I appreciate the response or help, or I stop by in person.

      My magical salad co-worker has a habit of thanking every single time something goes through and she does it to everyone on copy. Because she has to get a chain of approvals quite often, my email inbox is at least 10 thank yous from her in a day to other people. It irritates me to no end; I’m trying to be zen about it but I just can’t.

      1. Natalie*

        Do you ever need her emails to pop up in your inbox? If not, maybe a rule that files her dozen “thanks yous” into a separate folder, and then you can clear it out when you’re extra zen feeling.

      2. Random Name*

        Yes, your example of your situation is along the lines of what I’m talking about. Today, my personal inbox was flooded with 8 emails that I was copied on for emails requiring the action of another. So I was copied on each email confirming the action taken (which is fine), but also copied on each thank you email from the original sender. It was just overkill, and what prompted this post. Normally it’s not as bad as that, but it was definitely frustrating to come back from lunch to see my inbox blown up by useless emails.

  89. katamia*

    The good news: this week I got both a job (in a field I’m hoping to leave, but it’s in the most tolerable part of the field for me) and an internship (in the field I’m trying to move to). Yay! But there’s some awkwardness–I didn’t think I’d gotten the internship and didn’t have the ad anymore (I applied maybe two months ago and just kinda forgot about it), and when I looked back at my cover letter to refresh my memory about what the internship was for I realized I’d accidentally typo’d the wrong year for when I completed a graduate certificate (say, 2011 when I actually did it in 2012).

    The cert doesn’t have any kind of expiration date, and while I don’t have the dates listed for my education on my resume, my job history on my resume shows that I was on the other side of the country during the incorrect year (the year I said I completed it rather than the year I actually completed it).

    Should I say something? If so, how the heck should I phrase it?

    1. fposte*

      Is the certificate relevant or necessary to the work? If it isn’t, I wouldn’t worry about it; I might check with somebody in the job if they want to correct that information in the files somewhere.

      1. katamia*

        It’s not necessary to have the certification to do the internship (some of my fellow interns are still in undergrad), but it’s in the field the internship is in and since it’s the field I’m trying to transition into, it’s the only real concrete evidence I have at this point of my seriousness about the new field (creative industry, so a lot of my prep work has been done in my spare time working on my craft rather than in previous jobs).

        1. fposte*

          I don’t see this as a big deal at all. You might, if you wished, mention to whoever’s supervising you as an intern that you found a date error in your certificate and ask if they want that corrected somewhere; my guess is that it’ll get waved off or they’ll say pretty much “Um, go ahead and put in an update, I guess.”

          I just don’t think people are going to look at that cover letter again anyway.

    2. Persephone Mulberry*

      Honestly, I wouldn’t bother to say anything. I doubt anyone compared the dates mentioned in your cover letter with the dates in your resume to make sure they line up – if they had, you probably would have heard about it as part of the interview/consideration process before being offered the internship. For all the employer knows, it might have been an online program. It’s not as if you were misrepresenting that you actually had the certificate, or that you have a significant amount of work experience related to the certificate.

  90. Anon Accountant*

    I’m working on applying for a few positions that I am overqualified for but am excited about. These positions want 2-3 years of experience but I have 7 years experience. The positions salary ranges are actually higher than my current salary which is a little sad to me.

    I’d taken my current job only because I’d been laid off and then the company was sold. My salary has been consistent over the last 4 years in spite of tripling my workload and passing the CPA exam. Through my coworker’s error a few of us saw wage information and there are new hires that are paid what experienced staff from the old company were getting paid. Not 1 of the new hires have CPA licensure and we have been training a few of them. I’d pushed for a raise for over a year as my workload kept increasing but no raises were granted at all to any staff.

    I’d been waiting until after tax season to job search but then these positions were posted so I’m applying to see what happens. Maybe this isn’t the best attitude to have but I’m going to see what happens with these companies, if they even want to interview or talk to me. The timing would suck but we can see where it goes.

    2. Random Name*

      Do you work in public accounting or private industry? It sounds like public accounting based on your saying that you’re waiting for tax season to be over. Anyway if you are, sometimes the only way to get an increase in pay is to switch firms, and you could see a big increase in pay. And based on your years of experience and responsibilities, another firm might determine that they want to bring you in as a senior instead of a staff. Although 7 years experience usually puts someone in public accounting at the supervising senior or manager level.

      1. Anon Accountant*

        Public accounting. I’m definitely going to try other firms too. Hopefully a job offer will come through soon!

  91. Chrissi*

    I just kind of need to vent some panic/anxiety for a moment. I’ve worked for the same government agency my whole career. I’ve intermittently been happy, very happy, and unhappy at the job depending on various things, but lately I have just completely checked out. I desperately want to move on, but for a couple of years I’ve been telling myself that if I move on, it has to be to a completely different career and unfortunately I have no qualifications for anything except the job I’m doing. That’s just background really. I wasn’t really actively looking for jobs, but I found a vacancy for another government agency that is essentially exactly what I was looking to move into and I do have some skills in it (SharePoint, if you’re curious). I figured I had not shot, but by pure coincidence my co-workers brother works there, they discussed me, and his brother thinks I have a decent shot at the job. This is all great news, really! But now I need to create a resume, go through the whole federal job application process (which is a pain), and I haven’t done that in years. Also, I need to figure out a way to convey my SharePoint skills to them in the resume (and hopefully job interview), and I’m entirely self-taught, so I’m nervous about making myself understood and using the right terminology. The job is not an IT position, so I’m not expected to have background like that – it’s more of a coordinator position. I’m a little fuzzy on the details. Anyway, I know I’m getting way ahead of myself, but I think I’m obsessing about it because this feels like it just fell into my lap very suddenly and I have to do a lot of things very quickly and I’m just very good at second-guessing myself.

    I really just need to take a breath. Thank you for reading my incoherent ramblings – I think I just needed to type that out to calm down a little and just take it one step at a time. I’m going to go read all of Alison’s notes on resumes now.

    1. ACA*

      You’ll be ok! It sounds like a great opportunity, and you’ve already got someone at the agency who’s cheering for you.

    2. GOG11*

      You’ll do these things you list and you’ll be okay :)

      For the SharePoint issue, perhaps you could look over some free tutorials online to brush up on your vocabulary. I am self-taught in excel and I don’t know what things are called, but if you tell me what you want me to accomplish, I can get it done. You’ve got the skills and now you just need the proper titles for things.

      Good luck!

    3. Brett*

      Sharepoint seems to be a mostly self-taught skill in general. Being able to point to specific projects and outcomes would be pretty helpful there.

    4. Katie the Fed*

      I’ll only reluctantly support you, because I think sharepoint is the devil, but when you list you accomplishments for the last job, maybe add something like “in addition, learned sharepoint to help maximize efficiency in the office” or something like hat.

      Good luck. Let your contact know when you apply so they can check with HR for the resume.

  92. Camellia*

    This week in cube-land…

    A ‘C’ level exec went out of his way to stop at my desk to say good morning because I’m “one of the few who get in early”. As Alison says, perception is everything.

    Grabbed my ID badge to scan and open the door to my office building. When I got to my desk and started to clip it to my pocket I noticed it was the badge to open the door to my apartment building. I went back and tried it again, just to make sure, and yup, it opened the office door. When I got home that day I tried my office badge on my apartment building but it did not work. Guess I’m safer at home than at work. What was that telecommuting policy again?

    Which brings to mind the time several years ago, leaving work and feeling exhausted, dimly wondering why the lock on my car wouldn’t unlock. Finally realized I was standing there waving my badge in front of the lock instead of clicking my key chain.

    Forty-seven email exchanges do not an issue resolve. For goodness sake, SCHEDULE A MEETING ALREADY!

    And since I’m yelling, PLEASE don’t come to my desk when you are sick and pull up a chair to my elbow and fiddle with my pen while you are talking to me. Call me! I have been known to answer my phone occasionally.

    1. Postradamus*

      Ha, I have done the exact same thing trying to open my truck door with my work badge! Good on you, being recognized for your earliness. It’s great to get that validation.

      2. voluptuousfire*

        ^ This makes me feel better. Sometimes I step into the shower with my glasses on and then wonder why I can see when I usually can’t in the shower.

    2. GOG11*

      I’m immunocompromised and I hide my office supplies. I also bought some bank pens and put them away from my desk. Nobody smears their germs on my things. I hope you don’t get sick :(

      1. ThursdaysGeek*

        I’ve successfully opened my front door with my in-laws’ house key. That’s when I realized our lock was so worn that any key that fit in the lock would unlock the door.

    4. HR Manager*

      Yep, I’ve tried opening the front door to my old apartment building with my work badge. Took me a while too — wondering “why won’t this stupid thing work??” *swipes 10 x*

    5. Natalie*

      I have 3 proximity cards I use regularly – building card (also gets me into the bathroom), bus pass, and car2go card. I get them mixed up all the time – yesterday I tried to start my car2go with the bus pass. Close, brain, but not quite!

  93. Anonymous Educator*

    I have a job offer that may be pending (they’re at the reference-checking stage, so I don’t know I’ll be offered the job, but the possibility is real). This is a job I really want. If they offer it to me with reasonable terms, I’ll probably take the job and be stoked about it.

    Here’s where it gets sticky. I’m still in touch with my old boss, who’s been trying to get back to my old workplace. I loved that workplace. If a position opens up there for me, I’d go to my old workplace in a heartbeat. There’s a possibility this may happen in the next few months, but it’s not certain.

    So here’s my ethical question for you all: Can I, in good conscience, take another job knowing there’s a possibility I may leave it in a few months for another job, especially if the “another job” is far from certain (about 50/50 chance right now, if I had to quantify it)? What would you do in this situation?

    1. Sarah Nicole*

      I’d take your new job (congrats to you when you do get that offer!) and move on in your mind for a while. I would never wait around for something that isn’t a sure thing. If you are offered and accept this new position, I would stay as long as you would consider staying at any job based on its own merits. The grass is always greener on the other side, and while the other possible position in a few months may really be awesome, this job could soar far above it for other reasons.

      Practically speaking, I would accept this position because of the need for a job. Are you unemployed now? If not, and you know you truly want to work for your old boss, you could always pull out of this new one and wait around for a while. I think that would be the most ethical thing to do if you truly think you’ll leave in a few months. But again, that is nowhere near a sure thing. What if your old boss does go back there and then can’t hire you for a while for a variety of reasons? You never know.

      Hope this helps!

    2. Celeste*

      How badly do you need a new job right now? Can you afford to wait around to see what might materialize at Old Place?

      And how long have you been gone from Old Place? Also, why did you leave? Is it possible that it has changed in ways you aren’t aware of so that the grass may not be as green as you remember?

      This letter makes it sound like your desire for this new job is very conditional–first the terms, and then if Old Workplace is hiring. I actually kind of wonder if pining for Old Job is a way not to acknowledge something undesirable about Potential Job Offer.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Thanks for the feedback.

      I am currently employed but don’t want to stay where I am, so there isn’t a lot of urgency in the sense of needing to immediately be employed. At the same time, it would not be great to turn down a job offer, stay at my current job, and then have nothing else appear on the horizon.

      I’ve kept in touch quite a bit with people at my old workplace, not just my old boss. I left on very good terms (my spouse and I moved far away temporarily for grad school).

  94. Bleargh!*

    People who come to work sick should be slapped if we can’t send them home. We have immune-compromised people here yet some departments encourage people to come to work sick and they have to cover their normal duties that puts them in contact with people who are trying not to get sick. I hate that!

    1. Mephyle*

      It sounds like it’s the departments that encourage people to come to work sick that need the slapping.

  95. Jess*

    I’m doing some rpg character portraits, and some questions came up about making a character look professional. The character I’m depicting has somewhat short, kinky hair. Long enough that it should form itself into something like a natural afro, but just short enough to not pull back into a ponytail neatly.

    It occurs to me that I don’t know how to style hair like that to look professional, without straightening it out so it lies neatly.

        1. ACA*

          Whoops, sorry! I missed that on my first read. In that case, Google might be your friend on this one. :) Though I also agree with Rebecca S, below, that natural hair doesn’t necessarily equal unprofessional.

          1. Jess*

            I’ve been googling but I haven’t been having a lot of luck – most of it’s either arguments about natural hair, or stuff for longer than what I’m aiming at.

    2. Rebecca S*

      Interesting- I would question the assumption that natural hair is somehow unprofessional, would like to hear what others think.

      1. Jess*

        The way I was taught it was an expectation that anything than a pixie cut, needed something done with it to look professional (and this is from people with straight hair). Just the price of looking professional while female.

          1. Jess*

            Either styled and with product, or put up (typically the former for midlength hair, the latter for long). But certainly you couldn’t just brush your hair and go unless you had very short hair where you couldn’t do anything else with it – and even then you really ought to put some hairspray in.

            1. fposte*

              That seems a little dated (or maybe culture-specific?) to me. “Brush and go” is pretty much the norm in my workplace regardless of the length.

              1. fposte*

                Actually, now that I think of it, that’s for straight hair; if you’ve not got straight hair, the brushing is probably optional.

                1. Judy*

                  I generally brush and pull the front to a barrette in the back. But that’s because I hate hair in my face. (Straight hair a little longer than shoulder length.)

        2. Cat*

          Straight, mid-length here: I just brush it and go, and while nobody would mistake me for a fashion plate, my career doesn’t appear to have suffered based on folks not finding me sufficiently professional.

  96. Stephanie*

    Reorganizing my resume to split up experience between jobs and volunteer work/underemployment jobs. Is it better to have the more recent stuff (the volunteer work) or the more relevant stuff first?

    1. GOG11*

      Would “Employment” (or some other title that fits) with the more relevant stuff and then a section below that says “Other Experience” (with the rest/more recent stuff) make sense?

      1. Stephanie*

        Hmm, that’s the current version. I wasn’t sure if I was conflating volunteer work with paid work too much (I do have things clearly listed as volunteer). There were also fewer things I could list under the volunteer jobs (I did have some accomplishments in a couple of roles), so I thought the brief descriptions looked a little weird next to my professional jobs. But perhaps I’ll have two versions and see if one gets more responses than the other.

        1. Mephyle*

          Separating volunteer work from paid work could send the message that you don’t take the volunteer work as seriously (or don’t expect a hiring person to do so). If you think your accomplishments and skills from volunteer work are worth being taken seriously, then perhaps the current version is better – that is, highlighting what you did and what you learned that you can bring to the new job, rather than whether you were paid or not.

    3. Persephone Mulberry*

      I would go Relevant Experience (but only list jobs, not volunteerism), Other Experience (brief – job title/company/dates, maybe one bullet if the job title isn’t sufficiently descriptive) Community Involvement. Basically, “here is what I have been paid to do that you care about (even if it was five years ago); here’s the paid filler; here’s other stuff I’ve done that I want you to know about.”

    4. Trixie*

      I keep mine in chronological order with relevant stuff first, with Other Experience and Community Involvement at the end even though that’s all much more current. Kind of like the skills resume–I don’t want anyone becoming frustrated trying to decipher the last 5-10 years.

  97. AlmostaPM*

    I’m transitioning from an engineering role into a project management role next week – I’ll be helping to manage documentation, training, policy changes and prioritizing software tool improvements for an engineering team. I’ve done this kind of work before, but it was about a year ago (for the same team I’m moving into). I’ve never done any official training for PM work and I’d love some advice on either good basic books to read so I’ve got the vocabulary down or an online ‘on your own time’ class / program I could take. I won’t officially change titles for another few months and there will be interviews to make sure I’m ready so.. I’m trying to make sure I’ll be ready.

    Recommendations?

    1. AnotherFed*

      Formal project management? With budgets, schedules, and all that admin? If so, check out the Project Management Professionals stuff – they have certs (mostly useless), guidebooks (semi-helpful), and classes (good in small doses).

  98. David B*

    Hey everyone,

    I’ve had a few rounds of interviews with a job I’m excited about. The first two with the recruiting agency and the third with the person that would be my boss. I had the third call at the end of the day yesterday and I want to send a thank you note, however, I only have the contact info of the recruiters. Should I send one through them or just wait?

    1. Mel*

      In order to avoid this, I make it a habit to get the interviewer’s business card. If you are being hired through a staffing agency, though, it likely won’t matter too much. When I was a Recruiter, I would send follow up emails or make follow up calls after the interview myself and thank them for the time and immediately get feedback on how it went. I wouldn’t stress too much, but you could email the recruiters and ask them to thank the potential future boss for you. Just be aware that they may not pass that along.

  99. Rebecca S*

    Happy Friday everyone! I’ve been looking for work since Christmas, and accepted an offer today, so I’m really pleased! I’ve been reading this site religiously the whole time, and both Alison’s articles and the comments have been incredibly helpful, so thank you so much.

    I was wondering if anyone had any advice about how best to prepare for starting in a new role? I have a lot to learn, as this job is heavily research based (mostly online I think), which I don’t have a lot of experience in, and the market itself is also completely new. I’m a bit nervous as I really want to do well, so any tips would be appreciated!

    1. GOG11*

      I don’t do what you do, so I don’t have any practice-based tips, but do remember that they hired you because they believe in you and feel you’ve got what it takes! And remember to take care of yourself, especially if you make some mistakes are you’re learning. Good luck and congrats on your new job :)

    2. Mel*

      Have an open mind and don’t be afraid to ask questions during training. They hired you for a reason!

      Congrats!

    3. Elizabeth West*

      What Mel said about asking questions–and take lots of notes. That helps me learn, and when I write up my notes later, it shows me where I still need to ask things.

      Congratulatons!

  100. Frustratedatwork*

    I know Alison’s advice is to not let lazy and rude coworkers get to you, but I’m afraid I’ve let a coworker get under my skin and I’m wondering how to handle a recent situation. I have a coworker who is the office manager and his role is to make sure the office is running smoothly. This doesn’t end up being a lot of work and when I have requests or questions, he’s often playing video games. He gets irritated when I ask questions because I’m interrupting his video game and often makes snarky remarks and deflects my questions. I find it frustrating that he does not do his job, but up until now, I’ve able to let it go.

    Recently, I was out sick unexpectedly on the day a fridge clean-out was taking place. I had expensive food storage containers in the fridge that I didn’t want tossed and emailed to ask him not to throw them away. He responded that it wasn’t his job to take requests like this and unless I could find another coworker to take the containers, he would throw them out. I responded to let him know that I was frustrated that he was unwilling to help me and that another coworker had taken care of it. He called me selfish for not thinking about the amount of work he had. What do I do? I beyond annoyed that I have to work with him!

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I would forward that email exchange to their supervisor. But then, that kind of attitude would get you put on a PIP here, or at least warrant some kind of intervention, because we’re pretty strongly service oriented. Anyone not being helpful without a damn good reason, whether they are HR, IT, Facilities, or executive staff, is not tolerated here.

  101. The Other Dawn*

    Anyone have advice on establishing goals for people? I’m new to managing multiple people and setting goals is something I’ve struggled with in the past, even with just one or two people.

    I have two junior people who are new to the department in the last two months and I think their goals are pretty easy: professional development, mastery of certain skills, and ensuring compliance. I have two other people that have been here awhile, one of which is the senior person. Ensuring compliance will be one goal (in my industry, banking, that’s a major requirement for everyone). For the senior person, he was offered my job as a manager and didn’t want it, so a goal like “working to move to the next level” doesn’t really apply. I don’t want to make the same goals as last year, but in my business the main goals are always going to be compliance and creating efficiencies when possible. I’m thinking department cleanup is a good one since the department went from 2 to 5 people so lots of things are massively behind. Any ideas on what other kinds of goals I can give this senior person (and the other long-time person)?

    1. Malissa*

      Ask them to come up with a couple of goals for the year. That will give you an idea where they want to be. Otherwise envision what you want this person doing in a year and go from there.

      1. Mel*

        This is what I do. I make a general list, but ask them to make a list. You can learn a lot this way as well

    2. Judy*

      I’m used to 3 types of goals: functional (completed X, Y, Z projects, maybe the compliance would be there), behaviors (most companies have leadership behaviors they measure against), and development (take classes in A, B, C, read book D, read magazine E monthly). Usually the functional goals were weighted the heaviest. For a team, usually the functional goals were similar, with just different projects. The behavior goals were common across the company. The development goals were the ones that were most specific to the person.

  102. Tiffany Youngblood*

    I’m applying for my first post-college job to start after I graduate in May. Most/all of the positions require a Bachelor’s degree and I would have that in May. My concern is that the online application systems these companies are using require me to answer what my highest degree received is, and technically, that is not a Bachelor’s degree. I want to be honest, so I’m answering high school or associate’s (if its an option). I feel like that is probably keeping me from getting past that initial step because I don’t have that requirement. My resume/cover letter clearly states I’ll be graduating in May but is it even being read if the application says I don’t have the degree? Is it okay to answer bachelor’s degree since I would have it before I started any job? Am I over-thinking this?

    1. GOG11*

      If the application allows you to link “Bachelor’s Degree” with your graduation date in a way that very explicitly says the degree is anticipated in May/June, then that would be okay. Anything short of that and I wouldn’t put Bachelor’s degree – just put your highest degree received and explain where you have the opportunity to do so.

      Good luck with your job search!

    2. Mel*

      Make sure your resume and cover letter emphasize your expected graduation date. I’m pursuing my MBA in HR, so I have that on my resume with “expected graduation” and the date. I did this when I was applying while working on my Bachelor’s. If they actually do their job and read your resume, they’ll see it and consider it. Sometimes when I would fill out applications that didn’t have much option for adding the work “expected” I would put Bachelor’s and where you enter the graduation date, I put the expected date. I got a few interviews that way and would explain that there wasn’t a good way to put it on there, but that I was trying to be honest and let them see I was about to finish my degree.

      1. Tiffany Youngblood*

        The problem is that I haven’t come across any that let me put dates with that field. It’s just a dropdown with the different options. I had one that had a comments box at the bottom of the form, so I added that I’d be graduating in May to that, but that’s only happened once so far.

    3. Natalie*

      I think it’s fine to put in Bachelor’s and your anticipate graduation date in this kind of automated situation. If for some reason you’re later rejected to not being done with school yet, it’s more likely because they need someone to start in March or whatever and not because they think you told some kind of egregious lie.

  103. GOG11*

    The other day, there was an informational day for the program I’m taking a class in. I asked an adaptation of a question from Alison’s informational interview post. After the presentation, one of the presenters (who is the president of a company in a city nearby) approached me afterward and complimented me on how I present myself. He listed a few things, like how I dressed and my bearing, but he said he couldn’t quite put his finger on what it was about me.

    I wanted to say “I’ve been reading Ask a Manager!” (or something akin to it to give the site credit) but it didn’t really fit in the conversation. Still, thanks AAM for helping me become a more professional professional.

  104. H*

    I had submitted a question several weeks ago, but recently found out some of the details had changed. Would it be ok to ask here?

      1. H*

        Hooray!
        So: person who holds dream job is retiring this summer, job is at my alma mater, I am in the process of getting my MLIS which would qualify me for the position, still in contact with many people at the school.

        I found out from my information-feed of a friend that they are restructuring several different academic departments and are unsure if they are going to change the duties associated with this archiving position, if they are going to combine it with some other open positions, or if they are going to scrap the position altogether (which I think would be a big mistake, even outside of my interest in the job, but I don’t really get much of a say.). Would it be at all appropriate to reach out to a former professor who is now a library admin and ask to be kept in the loop on developments with the position or would that just be supremely annoying with all the restructuring happening?

        1. fposte*

          I wouldn’t ask to be kept in the loop, because you’re not really loop material yet, if you will. But I think you can absolutely say that you’re really interested in this position and you understand it might be subject to restructuring–does she have any information about that that she’d be able to share? And could you touch base with her about the position later to see what the decision was?

          That way it’s up to you to contact her, not her to contact you.

          1. H*

            That sounds like a good way to do it. Especially since I don’t want to make it seem like I’m interested in a blow-by-blow playback of the whole restructuring, I just want to know if there will be a job for me to apply for and when to look for a listing. I’m also visiting the campus in April (for reasons unrelated to any potential jobs) so do you think it would be appropriate to reach out now and ask if we can touch base when I’m in town?

            1. fposte*

              Sure. “I’ll be back in town in April, and I’d love to see you and maybe chat about the position–do you know if you might be available?”

              I get what BRR’s saying, but I wouldn’t take it amiss if a former student contacted me about something like this. If I didn’t want to meet or share, it’s easy enough for me to avoid doing so without it being a problem.

        2. BRR*

          If I was working on possibly restructuring a position I wouldn’t discuss it with outside candidates.

          However, if you are really close with the professor and depending on how you know the person is retiring I would reach out to the professor and let them know you’re interested in Jane’s job.

          Also please see Alison’s post on dream jobs.

        3. Language Lover*

          If I were you, I wouldn’t inquire about a job that doesn’t exist yet. And in many ways, it doesn’t exist until the job is posted with all the new/old duties associated with it.

          But if you had a good relationship with this professor, I think an informational interview would be a wise thing to set up where you could get future career advice and talk about some of the things that are happening in the their library. You could ask how the restructuring is going to affect the library. You could even talk about what a loss it will be to lose the retiring person.

          TL;DR, don’t waste your time during your visit focusing on this potentially phantom position. Use it to get as much advice as you can about making your future career successful wherever you go.

          1. H*

            My initial question was “what is the etiquette for reaching out about an expected-but-not-yet-listed position,” back before the restructuring began.

            I’m actually making a tour of the campus library/archives part of my trip because institutional reports are apparently all the rage in library school and they never let you use the one you’re already working at, so that will probably give me the chance to ask some questions about the library and its future in a very general way that will benefit my quest for knowledge and the report.

            1. fposte*

              I think Language Lover is making a decent point, though–that reaching out doesn’t necessarily give you an advantage over just seeing the position posted when it goes up. So I think it’s fine to connect with your old professor and ask, but stay pragmatic about what it gets you and don’t let it dominate your search.

  105. Sandrine (France)*

    I have to add something work related even though it’s me being naughty as well. Or, rather, stupidly giggling since yesterday.

    So I was fired in July from a customer service position (through the phone only) and the company had opened a flagship store long after I’d been hired.

    Yesterday I was at my unemployment check-up appointment (or whatever you may call it… argh) and the mission for the day was “click and send resumes” . I can do this from home but hey, gotta be there to keep getting the unemployment money so why not.

    I saw an ad for a job in the flagship store.

    I applied.

    Would love to be the HR rep that reviews my application wondering why the name is so familiar >:D .

  106. WhiskeyTango*

    I’m curious how much people weigh culture when evaluating a new position. I am in a job currently where I like my work and I get on very well with my boss. But I have some concerns about the company itself and the culture doesn’t quite sync up for me. It’s a very young company and, as a working mom, I am having a hard time fitting in.

    I am in the running for another job … it would a completely different culture and does not have the issues that concern me with my present employer. But I’m not thrilled with the work involved, in fact, I did similar work several years ago and found it to be maddeningly dull. If I were offered the job, I strongly suspect it would be a lateral move on salary, but how much weight should I give to intangible factors like a better cultural fit vs. work I find interesting and engaging.

    1. jillociraptor*

      Are you actively unhappy in your current culture, or it just isn’t a great fit? What’s the nature of your concerns about the company?

      If it were me, I would rather stay in a job I like with a boss I like. Assuming your concerns about the company aren’t major ethical issues.

      Also, I don’t think you need to think about this as a binary. There are other jobs out there, which you can keep searching for while staying at a job that seems to be going mostly well for you, even if another role could be a slightly better fit. In fact, interviewing at a few more places might give you additional insights on what makes for a good office culture for you.

      1. WhiskeyTango*

        I feel like there are really high highs and really low lows. It’s very bi-polar. So some days I definitely want a new job and others where I love my job. I know some people who don’t mind that kind of environment and I’m not one of them.

        I really recognize the value in a good boss and a good relationship with her. (I’ve had horrible bosses in the past). She and I are very much on the same page. But there are some issues where the company makes things harder than they need to be. So there is a lot of frustration, especially in my department. We are stretched to the max and if any one person were to leave, the work load would become unbearable for everyone and I suspect we’d see a mass exodus… kind of a ticking time bomb. I am aware of at least 4 of the 7 of us actively looking. (To be clear, I was not actively looking, but this job opened up at my husband’s company and he encouraged me to apply … given that he sees how stressed I get on those low days mentioned above. My background aligns very well with what the company’s needs given my prior expertise so they were very interested in talking to me. ) If someone were to leave, I would be someone my boss depended on very heavily to get through the storm (and already am), but I don’t think I could handle the workload long term (and it would take a while for us to get fully staffed. We’re struggling as it is and hiring in our particular field of expertise is difficult.

        I am not thrilled about a lateral under the circumstances however. If it were a step up, I think I’d look at it differently. So I guess what I really want to figure out if these are good reasons to lateral.

        1. jillociraptor*

          Thanks for the additional context. I can see that this is a hard decision! If it were me, I think the role at your husband’s company would be a great break from the things I’m dissatisfied with, but that relief would wear off fast to leave just the tedium. You might be different, of course, but that’s how I’d lean. If you’re reading this and thinking, “Aw man!” that’s maybe a good sign that you’d lean the other way!

          It’s always challenging to make a decision when none of your options is precisely what you want. I’d encourage you to think beyond the pro-con list for just the job. The new role might free your brain up for other hobbies or interests. If you prove yourself in the storm of the current role, you might have access to new opportunities even sooner. I don’t know if it helps you, but it sometimes helps me to just acknowledge that you’re not going to get 100% of your needs met either way. It can help free you up to think about other externalities and possibilities that distinguish the options.

          1. WhiskeyTango*

            You hit the nail right on the head. Neither option is going to satisfy me 100%. I just wish it didn’t feel like a decision on the lesser of two evils. I wish I felt more positive about one choice over the other. I almost feel like what ever choice I were to make, I will end up regretting it either way. Ugh.

            Lol, I guess I’ll wait until I’m offered the job…. or not. But thanks for hearing me out… it gives me something to think about as the situation progresses.

  107. Former Diet Coke Addict*

    I just heard through the grapevine that someone at my work reported my boss to the Labour Board. This is his second complaint. Apparently they will be coming by for an inspection at some point–this is more than a bit surprising and I’m not sure what, if anything, to expect!

    1. Mel*

      We had a Payroll audit. I don’t know how they do things there, but here they send a list of documents to prepare and then the rep comes in and asks for certain things, reviews them and you pray to every higher being that possibly exists that they don’t find anything wrong. The moment they do, they can penalize you AND request to see everything and penalize you some more.

  108. Anonsie*

    Feelings on monogrammed bags for work?

    I really want one of those Cuyana leather totes for conferences, business trips, and meetings where I need to look more formal. Currently I have a cheapo pleather one that gets the job done but I work in support for a lot of people that are wealthier and better dressed than me and I want to upgrade a number of things before the next conference. The company offers a little monogram on the bag, 1-3 little sans-serif letters stamped on in gold (I’ll comment with an example photo) that I think is really nice looking. But I can’t decide if the monogram dresses down the bag or if it looks pretentious?

    I’ve asked a few other groups about this and what keeps coming up is that the southerners (myself included) like the monograms and most others find them pretty tacky. If it was just for casual use I’d get it and not worry about it, but I’m worried about how it comes off to the class of people I work with? Will they think it’s bad taste? I grew up in a trailer, guys, I don’t know about this stuff.

      1. Lunar*

        I am a northerner and I don’t think it is tacky! I have a very similar bag which I purchased from somewhere that now does monogramming but did not when I bought my bag and I wish mine were monogrammed. That said, I get compliments on my bag all the time (including in the office – which is pretty professional – I don’t wear a suit to work but I would consider us professional dressers). I say go for it!

      2. Sadsack*

        That is not the sort of monogram I was expecting. It is very understated, and I like it. I am not into monograms for myself, but I wouldn’t think twice if I saw someone else carrying it. It is a small, special touch that makes you happy, so go for it! The bag is nice, either way.

    2. Mel*

      When you said monogram, I was thinking way bigger than that, which I find tacky. I think the monogram is small enough that it still looks classy, but I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary. I would just get a nice, good quality tote. I should add that I live in Alabama, but I’m originally from DC. So this is coming from my combined perspective. Then again, while I have one coach clutch, most of my bags are from Target or handmade. I may not be the best judge, lol

      1. The IT Manager*

        I agree. Those monograms are inoffensive. I pictured a fairly large monogram surrounded by branches or flowers when you mentioned tacky monograms.

        1. Anonsie*

          Yeah I think I associate monograms with being tacky because I’m used to those canvas totes with the embroidered monograms that are HUGE in bright colors and scrolled font. They were super popular where I grew up and, while I wouldn’t judge someone else for carrying it, that’s also not the image I want to project of myself either.

    3. H*

      The monogram on that looks very, very subtle and simple so I think you’d be ok. Also if it’s only on one side of the bag you could just be a little more conscious of which side is outward facing if you suspect you’ll be in judgey company

      2. Anonsie*

        I feel like this is obvious but I somehow didn’t even think to just turn the bag around if I thought it was weird at all later. It is on one side only, I think. Duh Anonsie.

    4. The Other Dawn*

      I like it. And I know exactly what you mean about wanting to upgrade certain things because of the clientele you work with.

      When I was promoted to an officer at a bank I used to work for, I started noticing that the senior people had briefcases or nice bags to carry all their stuff it, regardless of whether it was their lunch or important papers. Then I looked at my plastic grocery store bag that I just pulled from my bag holder at home and I felt a bit shabby. I went out and got myself a canvas tote bag so I, at least, wasn’t carrying plastic anymore. As I started making more money I bought a black Coach tote bag, from the outlet of course :), and started using that. It made a big difference in how I feel about my appearance and made me feel more confident. Seems strange that upgrading a bag can do that, but it did.

      1. Anonsie*

        Doesn’t it?? I upgraded just a few things in the last year for the first time after refusing to buy anything expensive (read: over $45) my whole life and it’s surprising how good it feels. I kept considering doing more but I also had a lot of cognitive dissonance because money has always been very tight for me until recently and it’s hard to shake the “waste of money” nagging feeling. I finally got pushed over the edge by that silly KonMari book, when I went through my clothes and accessories and kept feeling like I just hate most of the cheap stuff I own. Like, yes it’s cool that these camisoles were $3, but they are faded and shrunk funny and look terrible and I hate wearing them so they were maaaybe not worth the savings.

        1. The Other Dawn*

          I’m going through a “money is very tight” phase right now and it sucks. I’m evicting the tenant in my old house so I’m paying two mortgages,and have an obscene amount of debt from the new house and pet issues. I had gastric bypass last year and have lost a ton of weight. I’ve bought new clothes during the year, but I’m REALLY wearing them out and need new ones. I have a new job and I’m in a management positions, so I’m really tired of wearing the same old stuff all the time, but can’t buy anything at all right now. At. All.

            1. Anonsie*

              Oh man I know how that is, story of my life. Hope it turns around for you soon. It’s hard even to just indulge being sad because it feels so dumb to say “I am upset because I don’t have pretty nice clothes and it makes me feel incompetent” but that’s how it freaking feels.

    5. Persephone Mulberry*

      Mid-30s Midwesterner, here. I think the monogram is fine.

      This is totally not what you asked, but I would think carefully about getting a tote that doesn’t close in any way, for business purposes. You’ll have to be extremely vigilant any time you set it down so that it doesn’t tip over – or get kicked – and spill your stuff everywhere.

      1. Natalie*

        And that you don’t mind that everyone can see your stuff. I have a great open-top purse that I love (it’s quite tote-like) but occasionally I’ll feel uncomfortable having my lunch or a half-dozen bananas or a prescription bottle in there. YMMV

        1. Anonsie*

          When I had bags that zipped, I found myself never closing them. I’m kind of a weirdo though, I feel like if someone looks in my bag and sees my foot cream whatever and is grossed out they have only themselves to blame.

    6. Beezus*

      Midwesterner raised in the south by Yankee parents here. ;)

      I don’t find monograms inherently tacky necessarily, but I am not a fan of gold, and I’d be worried that it would flake off with use. I would prefer a monogram that was tooled into the leather.

      1. Anonsie*

        That’s a good point. I believe it’s stamped into a tooled indent though, not sure if that would even help. Their totes are supposed to be really high quality, I know the leather is extremely durable (which is why I want one, I am not kind to my bags) so I’ll have to see if I can find any comments on the monogram quality anywhere as well.

    7. super anon*

      i love the monogramming on the example bag that you posted. it reminds me of the way alexander mcqueen bags are stamped with the logo. it isn’t tacky at all in my opinion (and i’m not from the south, if that helps any).

    8. Gwen*

      Mid-20s Midwesterner ;) I think it looks very cute and classy. I’m not really a monogram person myself, but I wouldn’t think twice about a nice subtle stamped one like that if I even noticed it (which I probably would because I love handbags, but your average person may not be laser focused on everyone else’s purse).

  109. Mel*

    I recently found out that boss has hidden recording devices in his office, because he “wants to remember what he says”. Now this isn’t illegal in my state, but it makes me feel like he doesn’t trust us. I already knew he read our emails, but didn’t find that overly concerning as they are company email accounts and he has that right. The problem I’m having is that he hasn’t been making very sound business decisions, but I’m limited in my ability to provide input as I’m “just” the HR Generalist. I know he feels I do a good job right now, but our working environment is so catty that people’s opinions change daily. It doesn’t help that he’s hired family members as managers and his favorite manager (he calls her “his girl”) is incredibly inefficient in her job to the point that it effects mine. For example- I get told we need to hire a new employee, so I post for the position and conduct phone screens before sending multiple people her way. She then doesn’t tell me any updates and claims she hasn’t received enough candidates to hire anyone OR that none of the 20 people I sent were qualified for this entry-level unskilled position. My boss then comes to me and asks me what the problem is. I finally got fed up and was honest and explained she was a black hole for sending messages, but nothing changed. Right now I’m not in a position to be changing jobs any time soon because I did some job hopping to advance my career to this level and I want to show stability now. Any suggestions on how to effectively fix this problem without getting fired for pointing out that “his girl” is consistently dropping the ball? I’m not the only one in the office having this type of problem with her, but nobody else says anything to the boss. Should I just deal with it and just make sure everything is documented for when I get asked about this again? I am very much a stereotypical Virgo and tend to worry too much about things.. do think I’m doing that here??

    1. fposte*

      No, I think your workplace sounds horrible and that it’s not likely to change. The boss is a loon, and a lying paranoid one–if he just wanted to remember what he said, the recording devices wouldn’t need to be secret, would they?

      And unless you can hire without “his girl,” there’s not much you can do to avoid this blockage. Sorry, but this sounds like it’s going to be a tough place to stick long-term.

      1. Mel*

        Thanks for the affirmation. Even though it stinks, sometimes it’s nice to know you’re not entirely crazy for feeling the way you do. Sadly, I don’t think her being in the hiring process will change even though my manager and the director of operations both feel I should do it. I have TONS of recruiting experience and we’re only hiring for delivery drivers, so it’s not like we’re talking about highly specialized skills (although I have experience hiring for those types in the DoD area).
        I plan to stay for two years before I start looking just to show more stability. Despite the many faults here, I am learning a lot as this is my first position doing ALL of HR and not specializing in one area. I long to find a job that doesn’t just seem great the first few months and then turn into the polar opposite once you’re in too deep…

        1. Natalie*

          Unless you have a history of job-hopping you’re trying to counteract, I wouldn’t stay just to hit some arbitrary years mark. It’s not like you’re working a few more hours than you thought or have to do more tedious paperwork than you want to – you work for someone who secretly records you and reads your emails.

          Also, to be blunt – working for such a dysfunctional place, I wouldn’t trust that what you’re learning is any good. I’m sure you’re smart and capable, but this kind of environment can get in your head in little ways you don’t notice.

          1. Mel*

            My direct manager is actually teaching me good information, but my recent job history isn’t as stable looking as I’d like. I made a few mistakes of jumping ship trying to find a place with better career growth opportunities, so I have about 3 jobs in a row where I only stayed about a year. Before then, when I first entered the workforce in high school and into college I stayed somewhere for 5 years, but since then it’s been a year here, a year there. I hate that I did that to myself, but I’m still only 27 so I can only blame my younger self for being too antsy and not thinking about the long-term picture. I picked 2 years because I don’t know that I can stand being here longer than that if nothing changes. Also, 2 years would put me at having 5 years experience in HR and most places here require that much experience now. To be honest, a lot of what I am learning is how to avoid problems and how to prepare for audits. I can say that my department is run correctly and if audited I can show what I have done to fix things in the time I have been here. I also had to set up a worker’s comp policy and implement as before they hired me, apparently they never reported any on the job injuries (I shudder just typing that).

    2. WhiskeyTango*

      You mentioned the recording is not illegal in your state, but it may be depending on your profession. It wouldn’t be illegal in my state, however, attorneys are not permitted to knowingly record conversations without everyone’s affirmative consent, despite the fact that it would be legal for everyone else. Depending on his profession (not necessarily in law, but any professional with a licensing board), there might be a prohibition on the record. Just a thought.

    3. jillociraptor*

      Yeah, this workplace is a total disaster. You’re not overthinking it! And I also don’t think you can “fix” it. If you’re committed to staying, I’d focus on not only retroactively documenting all this weird stuff, but also proactively articulating your plans and timelines. For example, with the hiring process, emailing His Girl with, “I’ll send you X candidates by Wednesday, and then I’ll check back in on Friday to see what you think about the pool. Then, we can start first round interviews next week, and next round interviews the week of the [date].” Then you can also report to your boss the timeline and have that extra accountability (i.e. it might be clearer that His Girl is dropping the ball.)

      1. Mel*

        Thanks! I like your suggestion of the extra accountability. I already started emailing the manager the applicants I send her (after the first time my boss blamed me for the lack of hiring someone) so I have a nice paper trail for this recent headache, plus I started putting my phone interviews on my calendar to show how many people I’m talking to as well. All this advice is helping me realize that sometimes you can’t fix things, but I can just use this as an opportunity to show that despite her making it harder on me, I shined anyway.

    4. Katie the Fed*

      “I recently found out that boss has hidden recording devices in his office, because he ‘wants to remember what he says’ ”

      Uh, that’s just straight up crazy. And disingenuous. Why hide them?

      1. Mel*

        LOL that was my reaction too. He apparently announced in a meeting and my manager (who is wonderful!!) informed me so that I knew what I say in his office is recorded. It definitely makes me wonder if my office is bugged as well. Glad to know I’m not the only one who finds this behavior crazy!

  110. puddin*

    My job hunt continues…
    Interview A – Still waiting to hear their decision. Was supposed to get contact from them on Wed 2/11. Still no word, moving on even though I really thought it was a good fit. Its out of my hands at this point.

    Interview B – O.M.G. did I bomb this. I did not think it would be a good fit prior to the face to face. And looking back on it, I self-sabotaged. I mean, it was magnificently wretched. If one of the managers posts this to AAM as a worst interview story, I would not be surprised. I essentially told them that I was intimidated by the interview. In addition, not only did I say that I did not have technical expertise they were looking for, but I did not even add that I was willing to learn it. It was horribad! There are more sordid details that I am too humiliated to share. Suffice to say, that door is cerrado.

    Interview C – Next week. The in person will tell me a lot. The job description had a word similar to fanatical in it. I am not I am fanatical. So we shall see.

    Need some advice AAMsters please…
    If I decide to take a job before the quarterly bonus is paid out at my current company, is it appropriate to ask for that same amount as a sign on bonus? I may or may not get this bonus and I do not know (currently) how much it will be, but typically it is about 5% of my base salary. I will not get this bonus if I am not employed at the time it is doled out probably in early to mid April.

    1. Mel*

      I cried in an interview once. It can always be worse.

      As for the sign on bonus, I’ve never asked for one so I have no real advice on it.

      But seriously. Full on bawling tears!!

    2. SheDaisy*

      I feel you on self-sabatoging interviews! One of my earliest interviews, I didn’t research the company/organization all that closely. When I arrived and the interviewer explained the program a bit more, I realized it was somewhere I would never have applied to if I had done my research properly.

      I admitted at the very start of the interview that I didn’t realize what I had signed up for and that I didn’t want to work here… and they kept going with the interview anyway! It was super short, only like 20 min, but it was so awkward to keep going when I had said I didn’t want to stay.

      Needless to say, I now do as much research as possible to know what I’m getting into. Try not to feel bad, just use it as a learning experience for the future. Good luck on your search!

        1. Katie the Fed*

          I did that once! I just said “you know, as I’m listening to these questions I realize I’m probably not at all what you’re looking for, so if you don’t mind I think I’ll cut this short and save us all the awkwardness.” And then I thanked them and left.

    3. Beezus*

      I don’t think it would hurt to ask for that amount as a signing bonus. I would be prepared to hear a no, but I don’t think the amount is so huge that they’d hold asking against you.

      I argued with an interviewer once. I was burned out in my then-current job to the point that my health was affected. I wasn’t taking care of myself, wasn’t sleeping regularly or eating well, and I was such a mess I really had no business job hunting, but a former coworker referred me and I was desperate for a change, so I went. However, I decided to work the morning before the interview, and then I let a work “emergency” delay my departure until I had barely enough time to get there, then I made a wrong turn and was a few minutes late. In the interview, I was nervous, flustered, and ill-prepared. One of the five people interviewing me asked a situational question, and after I answered, he offered a different perspective on my answer that made it sound like it didn’t really apply to the question. I’d been awkward and stumbling the entire interview before that, but my reaction to being disagreed with was articulately rude. I have no idea what came over me – I was exhausted, humiliated, disappointed, and so mad at myself, and I just snapped back at him. He very visibly checked out of the interview completely at that point, and we pretty much went through the motions to wrap things up and usher me out the door. He would have been my boss’s boss’s boss had I been hired.(I’m still friendly with my former coworker, but she understandably hasn’t referred me for anything else since.)

  111. Chriama*

    I just want to share something frustrating: I’ve been looking for a part time job strictly for evenings and weekends. Last week I had a phone screen with someone looking for a chip merchandiser (basically go around stores and restock the shelves). I was supposed to have an interview today. I drove all the way across town at 7 in the morning on a highway that I’m not used to taking (I only started driving a few months ago). I had to go to a registry and get a copy of my driver’s abstract to prove I’ve never had a ticket — it cost $29. Then, 5 minutes into the interview, he mentions that I need complete open availability on weekends. Now, I go to church on Sundays and teach Sunday school every 3 weeks. It’s on my resume, and I think I even mentioned it during the phone screen. But apparently the delivery schedule only comes out on Friday mornings and there’s no flexibility around start times.

    So why didn’t this come out in the phone screen? If you’re going to demand open availability for a part-time job then you really should cover it in the phone screen, no? I know there was no guarantee that I’d get the job, and I’m not even upset that I didn’t get it, because I wasn’t sure I wanted it. But I wouldn’t have spent money on the driver’s abstract and on gas if I’d known, and I didn’t even think to ask because I have absolutely no experience with this kind of work.

    Anyway, this guy seems kind of young and I don’t think he has much experience in hiring. Also, from the limited googling I did it seems like these jobs have a lot of turnover so I probably wouldn’t have lasted very long. But I’m po’d and I just needed to vent :(

    1. Persephone Mulberry*

      This hiring manager sounds like a complete doofus. I think you dodged a bullet.

      Next time, don’t pay for the proof of clean driving history up front – push back on that. Honestly, IMO that’s a cost of doing business and the company should be covering it, but at the very least, tell them you’ll be glad to provide it if offered the job.

      1. Chriama*

        Yeah, I wasn’t crazy about that but I figured it was similar to teachers having to pay for their own background cheque, which I’ve heard mentioned on this site. I think maybe I should have said I’m not comfortable paying for it before I’m offered the job, but if the interview goes well I’ll bring it to him right after. However, I think that would most likely have just gotten me bumped out of the running since he doesn’t seem very high on the totem pole and I doubt he has much autonomy (e.g. he was reading interview questions from a script, I had to fill out an application form ON PAPER that asked me which elementary school I went to…). Overall though, I figure that if you’re going to ask someone to spend money then you really should clarify any and all dealbreakers up front.

  112. Wolfey*

    There are a lot of analysis and personal stories about STEM gender bias in the media, but very very little about how to actually deal with it if you are a woman. I recently came across this study (http://www.pnas.org/content/109/41/16474) about bias against female undergrads from both male and female profs in the hard sciences.

    STEM Ladies, particularly of the engineering persuasion: did you experience bias in school/early profession and were you able to effectively counteract its effects on you emotionally, academically, and professionally? If so, how? Do you still struggle with profession undermining? What makes it worth it? STEM teachers/profs, what do you see when you examine your departments and yourselves?

    I’m going back to school for engineering, though I’ve never been a confident math/science person. This, from the study, worries me:
    “Because most students depend on feedback from their environments to calibrate their own worth (41), faculty’s assessments of students’ competence likely contribute to students’ self-efficacy and goal setting as scientists, which may influence decisions much later in their careers.”

    1. Foxtrot*

      Hey! I’m a female working on an undergraduate in ME. My first semester or two of school, I often heard “you only got XYZ because you’re a girl.” I had to work harder to gain respect compared some of the guys, but no one says that to me anymore. Also, for what it’s worth, the guys may start out ahead in terms of bias your first year, but by the end, people are measured by their actual engineering skills. All of your introductory math and science courses will have very clear right and wrong answers so it’s easy to see who’s cutting it and who isn’t. I think it’s easier for professors to be biased against a student in the liberal arts, but that could just be my impression.
      You’ll probably meet resistance in any chosen field. Just don’t let it get to you.

      1. Wolfey*

        Foxtrot, how the rest of those conversations go after the “you don’t deserve to be here” volley? Was there ever a way to shut down that kind of crap, or were those people just a$$holes all around? Was it only immature just-got-to-college peers, or was this pervasive amongst profs too? When you struggled academically, were you able to ask for help without damaging your standing? Where did you go for mentorship?

        FWIW, I’m going to be 5-6 years older than most people since this is a career transition.

        I wish I could just block all that stuff off but that may take some doing before it’s effective. I always had good relationships with my liberal arts profs, but I suppose it also never occurred to either of us that I needed to prove I belonged there in the first place.

        1. Foxtrot*

          I’d say most of the comments started as jealousy from classmates. For example, sophomore year, a bunch of my classmates (all male) and I went to a career fair and I was the only one who got an offer. We weren’t expecting much since most companies want juniors/seniors…so I got a lot of “they only wanted you because your a girl” comments for a few weeks. But…after I beat the guys on all three midterms in our shared classes, they shut up pretty fast. ;)
          To be honest, I haven’t had any comments from professors about being female one way or another. If you’re doing the work and you’re doing it well, they don’t care about your sex. I will say that there’s a big divide between people who *want to be engineers* and people who just think it will be a good career path or something. People who aren’t sold on the engineering don’t do the hands-on learning in their free time and that’s really a set back. Most of the women who I see struggling to gain acceptance fall into this category…but we equally look down on guys who aren’t tearing things apart and jumping at the chance to do lab work. Don’t worry about being older than your peers, definitely join an engineering student organization.
          I’m guessing if you’re looking at starting school around this time, we aren’t in the same country. I’m in the US…are you in the Australia/New Zealand area maybe? I don’t know if things are different globally. (Though I’ve heard some countries outlaw women from studying engineering at all!) If you want to private message me, feel free! I think I added my email now…

      2. Wolfey*

        Also, I’m interested in what you’re doing in ME! What kinds of stuff are you looking at and where do you think you’ll be going after graduation?

        1. Foxtrot*

          I started out with the intention of reducing carbon emissions in transportation. I don’t know where I’ll be going, but all of my internship/research experience has been in something tied to hybrid powertrains. I’ll go with whoever lets me join an R&D team in hybrids! (Planes, trains, automobiles…boats, scooters…lol)

          1. Wolfey*

            I’d love to pm you but I can’t figure out where your email is! (Alison?)

            I’m getting into it because of the tiny house/green building/natural building movements. I love the stuff people are working on related to the structures we work and live in, whether they are super high tech or totally low-tech reverse engineering natural techniques that we’ve forgotten how to build with.

    2. Chriama*

      I think you’ll have to work harder to form relationships with the professors where they see you as valuable. Raising your hand in class, attending office hours, talking to them about their research if it interests you etc. If they know you (especially in those huge first year classes where it’s really hard to stand out), they’ll have a better impression of you. I think it also depends on how entrenched the bias is and if your personality encourages you to pick your battles or always stand on principle.

      Specific to the quote you mentioed, I remember reading something about how female students were more likely to make their decisions to apply for grad school (or something like that, I can’t remember the specifics) based on whether or not their professors stated they were good enough, whereas male students didn’t need external validation to apply. I think the key takeaway is to make your decision based on what you want to do and then approach your professors asking for specific feedback to increase your chances of success, rather than general reassurance. For example, instead of asking if they think your grades are good enough for grad school, state “I’m interested in grad school for X subject. This is my experience and here are my grades. What are my strengths, and what do you think I need to accomplish in order to be competitive?”

      1. Anonsie*

        Agreed on all fronts here. Continuing the personality bit below, one of the big things is that a lot of people (and especially women) think that high quality work and a good work ethic will speak for itself. It doesn’t, especially not when people are already primed to not see it in you. But I’ve never really been someone who was afraid to point out my work, take credit, hand off something that shouldn’t be my job, or straight up ask for things. It doesn’t entirely counteract the bias, but it certainly helps.

    3. Anonsie*

      Hah, I knew it would be this study before I even opened it. It’s really disheartening, isn’t it?

      To answer your question, yes all the way through (see: guys explaining the moon to me in earlier comments, for example). The mindset that makes this tolerable for me is that when people set artificial boundaries for me, I really really intensely want to break them. I joke that spite is a large motivation in my life, but I’m kidding on the square really. If I make someone wrong, even if they would never acknowledge or admit it to themselves or others, I feel like it’s a victory a lot of the time and that’s often enough. You guys don’t support me or respect me the same, fine. My paper’s going into JAMA, if you don’t respect that I don’t care. It’s still there. That still means something.

      Of course, it’s not always enough. Women don’t usually drop out of the sciences at my level, they drop after they’ve been achieving for a very long time and nothing ever changes and they can’t advance. I do often wonder if eventually it will get to me and I’ll be in that statistic, but again my rebellious side rejects that.

      I think your individual personality is the determining factor, and if you’d asked me about this when I was a student it probably would have scared me off because I guess my “professional personality” wasn’t developed yet. Not the white collar one, anyway, if work in the sciences can so be called white collar. The thing is that I am a career-focused person: that’s the thing I want most. I want to work in this industry and I have a lot of goals within that, that’s my prime directive. Marriage or kids or running marathons or whatever hobbies are sideline things that I could take or leave as long as I have the work during the day, and that means I’m willing to deal with a lot more junk to get that goal than someone who perhaps feels their other goals are more important overall.

      It’s not that you have to sacrifice those things for the work, don’t get me wrong. But when something is a tertiary goal for you, the amount of hardship you may be willing to endure to achieve is is greatly reduced compared to if it was your main one. Your dealbreakers, I suppose, will be for smaller things the less invested you are in your goal. So that’s got a lot to do with it, too.

      1. Wolfey*

        There’s a lot of truth in here. Personality wise I could use a lot of toughening up–I tend to judge how well I’m doing by profs/bosses since I’m never satisfied with myself. I just don’t have a good barometer (yet).

        You’re last paragraph really hits home though. I’m going into this because it’s the more practical cousin of what I’d like to try if I had loads of money, and even that is just a means to an end for a personal goal I want to achieve. Ultimately I think it will be fun and rewarding, but I doubt I’ll have undying passion to tide me over the worst crap in the early years. I’m trying to anticipate and neutralize as much as possible since I do want to be successful!

    4. AnotherFed*

      I’m going to provide a counterpoint here. I’ve never run into this. At all. Not in school, not at work, and not in social situations. Granted, I was always a top student, and if I bothered going to office hours, it was because I was the TA running them. I had no issues with male classmates (honestly, I think by sophomore year they’d forgotten the females were anything except other than engineering students), except for frat boys with zero class attendance (and they were just sh*theads to everyone, it wasn’t specific to me).

      At work, not only do I have no issues with subtle or not so subtle biases, I’m completely confident that if anyone even hinted to someone that they thought I couldn’t cut it because I’m female, the rest of my team would eat them alive and then give the leftovers to me to tear into even tinier pieces. Honestly, the biggest threat to being taken seriously at work is affirmative action – all it takes is one person promoted to a high grade (above clearly more qualified peers) who then doesn’t perform well for many people to become suspicious of all future promotions.

  113. Chriama*

    Semi-related to my above post: has anyone ever had a job as a pizza order-taker for one of the big chains? As far as I can tell you need a decent internet connection and you get a commission that’s a percentage of each order you process, but no set salary. If there’s no up-front cost I wouldn’t mind trying it, but I don’t want to invest in something like a USB headset (required)or better internet connection unless the pay is good enough.

      1. Chriama*

        Haha sometimes I look up stuff on reddit to find out if it’s a legit job or a scam. There are a few legit work-from-home jobs, but so far all the ones I’ve found are either US-based or would have me working for less than minimum wage. I was interested in this one because they actually have a call centre in my city, but I’m wary about working solely on commission.

  114. Chriama*

    I feel like I’m spamming, but here is my last question: does anyone have tips for applying for a minimum-wage job? I’m looking for a part time job only for evenings and weekends and I apparently suck at job hunting. I’m even starting to think about just walking into stores or restaurants and asking if they have any open positions. Has anyone ever done that before, and if so, were they successful? Did you call first and ask when the manager would be in, or just walk in with a copy of your resume? I’m sure there’s been a discussion on that stuff here in the past but I just can’t find it and I’d really appreciate any advice.

    1. Lunar*

      Yes I have done this for a retail job. I didn’t ask about open positions but asked if they were accepting applications. Typically places like retails stores have their own applications you need to fill out. Some places will tell you to just go online and fill out an application there and some will hand you a paper copy. I used to just go to a nearby coffee shop, fill it out, and bring it back within a few minutes. I have gotten a job an a few interviews this way (this was all a few years ago when I was looking for part time work).

        1. Burlington*

          For restaurants, don’t do during the lunch or dinner rush. For retail, don’t go close to open or close to close, but other than that, each retail locaation will probably have a different busy time. Just avoid the busy times!

    2. constipated accountant*

      If you do go in, be really friendly. I used to hire for a minimum wage job and most people I hired had no work experience, so their personalities made a big impact.

      1. Chriama*

        Haha yeah. I have work experience, but not in stuff like this. I did retail for a summer in high school and lost touch with the manager so it’s not even on my resume. If you don’t have direct experience, what kinds of things make you look more attractive? I’ve done mostly office work and some academic research/TA stuff. Does anything there seem transferable?

    3. Xarcady*

      The larger retail stores will just point you to a computer and have you fill out the application there. If you have specific stores in mind, you could probably sit in the comfort of your own home and fill out the on-line applications.

      When I’ve been desperate for any sort of income and applied at stores like Macy’s and Sears, even in response to an ad on Craigslist (so that it would appear they were actively looking for new employees), it usually took 1-3 months before I heard back from them.

      But, based on one of your previous posts–they are going to want weekend availability, and that includes Sundays. When I worked part-time retail, I wanted only evenings and weekends, so I could work more lucrative temp jobs during the day. I *had* to be available Friday evening and all day Saturday and Sunday.

      If your church service ends before the store opens on Sunday, all is good. But if not, you will eventually be scheduled for a Sunday morning, and in my experience, you will either need to find coverage for the shift or you will be dinged an attendance point.

    4. Mockingjay*

      First, check to see if the company (restaurant or retail) uses an online application. If so, fill it out.

      Give it 24 – 48 hours to process. Then go to the establishment. Retail – mid morning or early afternoon on an early weekday; that’s when most managers are available. Restaurant – an hour before opening for lunch rush (9 or 10 am), or mid-afternoon before dinner (2 to 3 pm) (again, early in the week). Dress as you would for an interview – that first impression speaks volumes. Ask to speak to the hiring manager. Inquire about openings, and tell them you have already applied. Hand them your resume. Most part-timer applicants don’t do this. It will set you apart from the electronic masses. My daughters have done this very successfully.

      If they have a paper application, take it with you and fill it out at home or, as Lunar suggested, at a nearby coffee shop. You want to take your time and not miss any sections, or write down incorrect phone numbers. Bring it back with your resume attached.

      Oh, and make sure your voicemail is working. My youngest missed an offer once because hers was not set up correctly.

      Finally, as Xarcady pointed out, part-time means working weekends and holidays. You’ll have to decide whether that is a deal-breaker.

      1. Chriama*

        I’m not averse to working weekends, just Sunday mornings. I had a part-time job in high school that let me start at 11 on Sundays and that was more than enough accomodation. I wouldn’t be able to work somewhere that wouldn’t either commit to a set schedule or wouldn’t let me block off Sunday mornings, but I hope not all minimum wage jobs operate like that.

        1. Burlington*

          Most places are used to having some religious people on staff, so depending on what that means for your area, they might be very used to Friday, Saturday or Sunday religious accommodation. As long as your request is narrow, it shouldn’t go down too badly (and definitely put it if it’s a deal breaker!)

      2. Chriama*

        Also, thanks for the detailed explanation. I’ve been applying to ads on Kijiji and gotten some follow-ups, but none for retail or restaurant. I didn’t think of following up in person on those applications in person. When you say “inquire about openings”, what do you recommend asking about? Would it be something as basic is “Hi, I saw on Kijiji that you’re looking for part-time servers. I’ve already applied online, and just wanted to stop by and drop off my resume.” That seems somewhat incomplete.

    5. Anx*

      If you do go, make sure you have not just your resume, but a complete job history info sheet in case you fill out an application on site. It may be less relevant if you have a smartphone, but I don’t and it always helped in case I got nervous and forget the phone numbers of a job I worked 5 years ago or the address of my high school, etc.

  115. David B*

    Has anyone here interviewed with Alison before? I did in 2007, didn’t get the internship :). It was really funny when I stumbled upon this site a few weeks ago as I’m looking for a job for the first time in 7 years. Thanks for all of the help!

  116. voyager1*

    Okay, got what I think is a simple question:
    I interviewed at a major company two weeks ago, I have not heard back, however the online application website still has my application as under review. I have interviewed with another major company and have gotten an offer. I would rather work for the first place I interviewed. Is there a nice way to call the HR lady (at that first company) to see if I am still really under consideration? The hiring manager said I would know in two weeks, and that was a week ago, but she also said she had over 12 internal applicants, most that were nowhere near qualified. I don’t want to take up the offer at second company only to have to tell them a few days later that something better came along.

    So is there a nice way to ask? I honestly can’t think of any way that I don’t come off as a pushy jerk…. Thoughts?

    1. jillociraptor*

      What about something like, “I have received an offer from another company, but since I’m so interested in your open role, I wanted to make sure to check in with you before making any decisions. I have [a few days] to decide on my other offer; could you give me an update on the status of my application with you? Am I still being considered? Is there any flexibility in your timeline that I might have more information about this role before making a decision on my other offer?”

      I think this is super normal. They might not be able to change their timeline based on yours, but it’s not weird at all to ask and if you’re a front-runner, they’ll probably appreciate it!

    2. soitgoes*

      I applied for a job at a community college a year ago (a library tech) and my application is *still* “under review.” It’s not like it was an adjunct posting where they constantly rotate through employees. I never heard from them but I accepted a different job in the meantime. I think a some businesses might not click the “rejected” (or whatever) link if your application makes it past a certain point. Theoretically you’re still on file, I guess, but it doesn’t mean that the job is actually available.

  117. AnonForThisOne*

    Is there any good way to call your manager’s attention to a colleague’s poor communication skills?

    The problem is, I’m a pretty straight-forward, clear, concise communicator. This is something I’ve worked hard on, and something that comes up in my reviews as a strength, so I’m not just self-evaluating here. Coworker Bev, on the other hand, talks in weird circles I can’t follow. She asks me questions, and then when I begin to answer, she interrupts me with what is essentially the wrong answer + a request that I confirm that she’s right. Complication: While I’ve worked with my manager/team longer than Bev, Bev has more experience in the field than I do. Though we’re technically the same “rank,” I’m supposed to be learning this part of the business from her.

    I have a lot of conversations that go like this:

    Bev: I think we should make chocolate mint teapots.
    Me: Wasn’t our assignment to make caramel teapots?
    Bev: Didn’t Boss Ellie say in the meeting this morning that she wanted chocolate mint?
    Me: I wasn’t in that meeting, but in her last email, I’m pretty sure she said caramel…
    Bev: Oh, well, in the meeting she changed that to chocolate mint. And chocolate mint makes more sense, doesn’t it? Don’t you agree?
    Me: I think we should clarify before we move forward–
    Bev: Why would she want caramel anyway? I think it’s pretty clear it’s chocolate mint, that’s the way it’s always done, that’s the way we always did it at my last company. But if you disagree–
    Me: I don’t disagree, I just think we should talk to Ellie first to make sure —
    Bev: Well, let’s just do chocolate mint for now and then we can talk to her when she’s free. That way, we’ve at least got a start, right?

    Later, when we’ve worked on chocolate mint teapots for a few hours, Ellie comes to check in.

    Ellie: Why aren’t you doing caramel teapots? We don’t need any chocolate mint, we already have a billion of them.
    Bev: Well, Anon and I discussed it and we thought you would want us working on chocolate mint….

    The result is, I end up looking like a moron in front of my manager. Discussing our communication challenges in a friendly, professional way with Bev has yielded no results at all. And I find that a lot of the time, I’m the third person in a chain of telephone – Ellie will suggest to Bev that she work on something with me, Bev will pass on Ellie’s instructions/information… and later, I will find out Bev gave me the wrong instructions or information. Either she didn’t understand it herself, or she forgot a key piece. When it comes time to give the work to Ellie, it’s often wrong, and Bev always responds with some variation of, “I talked with Anon and we agreed this was how you would want it!”

    I don’t want to be the person causing drama on our team, but I also don’t want to let Bev always pull me in as the reason for or accomplice in her wrongness. How do I address this with Ellie without coming off as unprofessional, unfriendly, or blaming? Is there a way to point out respectfully that the coworker who’s supposed to be a resource for you seems incapable of passing on accurate information and instructions?

    1. Shell*

      I think the easiest way would be to have Ellie cc you when she gives instructions to Bev, since the instructions for you two to work together come from her anyway. Having it in writing would be easiest, but if that isn’t possible, at least have Ellie tell you the instructions verbally as well rather than have it all go through Bev.

    2. fposte*

      I don’t think this is a communication problem, I think it’s a hierarchy problem. If Bev tends to tell you stuff that’s wrong, you need to know if you have to follow her or not. I wouldn’t worry about how she phrases stuff to other people, because people probably know that’s how she talks and also they aren’t likely to pay a lot of attention to who else she mentions.

      Basically, I’d say to Ellie that you’re happy to learn more from Bev but it seems like you’ve had a pretty good handle on the direction lately, and would it be okay if you moved forward with just Ellie’s management rather than acceding to Bev?

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This. Use the telephone game as an example. Every time a message get relayed it changes just a little bit. That is a well-known analogy.

        I had a situation where a coworker relayed a message in the form of a joke. Since there were no specifics included in the message (date, time, place) I blew by the comment. There were a dozen other things going on and I went to attend to those things. The next thing I know I am on the verge of being written up for insubordination because I did not follow through on coworker’s message. That is when I put my foot down. I let the boss know that I am not that type of person that blows off what the boss says to do. If I am not doing something it is because I do not know I am supposed to be doing it. (This was not something I could have guessed at on my own and that was obvious.) I asked that any directives be issued to me personally, not through someone else. I said I did not want to have a problem on my work record just because my coworker did not accurately relay a message.

        I said all this, not in an angry way but in a tone that said “I want to do this job in a professional manner”. I focused on my professionalism and my desire to do a good job. I never had another similar problem again.

    3. MsM*

      I don’t think it would be unprofessional to tell Ellie you’re concerned that information isn’t getting passed along (and have repeatedly expressed that concern to Bev), and since it’s resulting in work that isn’t up to expectations and needs to be redone, you’d like her help in figuring out a better system.

      Frankly, I also don’t think it would be out of line to start gently correcting Bev when she tries to speak for you, provided you also throw in a possible way to address the problem: “I’m sorry for the confusion; Bev was just so insistent you’d decided on chocolate mint at the meeting. Next time, maybe we should wait until we’ve all had a chance to review the minutes?”

      1. MsM*

        Also, just because Bev talks in circles doesn’t mean you have to follow her lead: “Actually, I’m not comfortable with that. If you want to start working on chocolate mint, go ahead, but I’m going to wait/keep working on caramel until I get confirmation from Ellie.”

        1. Not So NewReader*

          This works well, also. Matter of fact, I have said “I am not comfortable with doing x” even to bosses. But with bosses, I make sure I explain why the quandary.

          It’s fine to express discomfort with something. It only goes into a real problem if you do not listen to other people’s responsible answers to your concerns.

      2. Lizzie*

        I once worked as part of a two-person team with a woman who very quickly made a habit of making bad decisions, ignoring my (always very reasonable and polite) attempts to redirect us towards a good decision, forcefully charging forth with her terrible decision, and then saying “Well, Lizzie and I decided that X was the right decision” when confronted about the mess that resulted. We lasted for about a week, at which point I kinda threw her under the bus in front of our manager – “No, WE didn’t decide to do X, YOU decided to do X. I said that we should not do X for reasons A, B, and C, and suggested that we do Y instead, or call Manager to ask for guidance. You wrote off my suggestions entirely.”

        Not my best moment. (I later apologized to the manager for the outburst, but also mentioned that my frustration had truly been building to the point where I didn’t think I could effectively work with this woman any longer.) But the outcome was good – my coworker and I were reassigned to work with other people (and she got a talking-to from one of the higher ups about why X was never, ever the right thing to do).

  118. Postradamus*

    For those of you who have been spoken to about your “tone” being unacceptable, but the feedback isn’t actionable because it’s too vague, how can it be worded better? Also, for any managers/supervisors who have been successful imparting this information, how did you present it?

    1. PL1111*

      I had a manager tell me that I was “curt” on the phone. I asked for clarification, and all I got was “People say you’re curt and you need to stop!”. After mulling it over for a few hours, I decided it was probably my demeanor at work, which is all business, with little to no small talk. I also figured out who the “people” was who got offended (it was one HR staffer), and made sure to engage in small talk when they called.

      Point out a specific example when you address “tone”.

      1. Jennifer*

        My “tone” being unacceptable has essentially boiled down to “I wasn’t cheerful and perky enough.” So if you want to tell someone that, say that they need to sound enthusiastic and happy at all times, you need to do a little small talk before you ask your question, you need to SMILE while you talk…etc.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      I’ve gotten the comment of “brusque” before and here are a couple of things that I’ve figured out or gotten good feedback on:
      * Using I-messages instead of “you” — it feels so unnatural at first to speak in the passive voice to avoid saying the word “you” (“I’m frustrated because we were accused of carelessness when it was just a miscommunication” and not “You said this, but we actually did that”), but it’s scarily effective.
      * Spending a little more time “taking the temperature” of a client or new bigwig before responding to them, so that you get a good sense of whether they’ll respond well to direct statements or whether they prefer to be soft-pedaled

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Am chuckling. I have told people to use more words. The less said, the less material there is to interpret how the message is being delivered.

      “No.”
      This one word very seldom stands alone and does well. “No.” usually needs more words after it.

      “No. I cannot get that for you now, because I have Big Task in front of me. I will be able to get that for you on Thursday, if you still want me to do so.”

      “It doesn’t matter.” Another instance where a few more words change how that phrase impacts someone. “It does not matter if the widgets are blue or green. The customer said they do not care, either color is fine.”

      “It’s broken.” The problem with this sentence is that it does not tell the person what everyone is doing until “it” gets fixed. Add more words. Even saying “the tech will be here at 3 pm” gives the recipient some information that they can begin to work with.

      Very brief answers can be construed many different ways, especially if it is not part of a larger conversation and there is no surrounding context. People tend to view the speaker as not helpful or stand-offish if the speaker does this routinely.
      There are exceptions, of course. I am assuming a normal work day with no five alarm fires, not peak busy season, etc.

  119. Julia*

    When you apply for jobs that at companies you have applied at before, how have you switched up your cover letter? I am struggling with this because the stuff/skills I want to highlight generally stay the same. Some companies I didn’t get an interview with and some I interviewed with and didn’t get an offer for various reasons.

    1. voyager1*

      The times I have done that, I have tweaked the cover letter or enough time had passed that I have new work experience… that said.

      I am looking for a job now, and frankly I don’t change cover letters much even if I am applying at a company I applied for a few months prior. I am always applying for a different job however. I work in banking so most of the places I apply are huge mega corporations.

    2. Jennifer*

      I did this recently: I pretty much changed the order of things that I talked about and rephrased things slightly, but otherwise had the same kinds of details. I haven’t heard from the second job yet, so who knows if that worked.

    3. AnotherFed*

      You can also add in a line or two stating that you applied/interviewed/whatever for a similar position at the company, and learning X about the place made you more interested in wanting to work there.

  120. JAL*

    I told my boss yesterday that I’m going to need a a coupe weeks off because of my surgery and she was fine with it. (most likely only a week, because I can work at home) She said she just needed to run it by human resources. Today, I got an email with forms attached for disability benefits and my FMLA. It seems kind of excessive for only needing a week or two off. Anyway, I don’t qualify for either because I’ve only been at my employer for 6 months and you need to be employed for a year.

    Should I still fill these forms out or should I talk to human resources?

    1. fposte*

      FMLA is standard at many places any time there’s a surgery, so it’s not an overreaction. But I’m glad to hear your manager is fine with you taking the time off! And good luck on your surgery–I’m walking like I was born to it now.

      I would check with HR and see if they want the forms filled out anyway–my guess is that it was just automatic. Hopefully not, since you’ll need the doctor to do the FMLA stuff and that’s more trouble than should be needed if it doesn’t apply.

      1. JAL*

        I’m thinking they just didn’t check to see how long I was working here. And I hope I won’t need to fill it out. Going to my surgeon is out of the way and I don’t know if my primary doctor would fill it out (plus my pdoc charges $15 per form). The disability compensation form also requires a doctor to fill it out. I much rather not get compensated for a week than go through that hassle.

        1. Weasel007*

          Jal, do it anyway. If something happens out of your control that extends your status you will be covered. Better safe than sorry.

    2. Persephone Mulberry*

      Couple possibilities: disability might kick in sooner (I think 6 months is actually pretty common) and employers are allowed to offer more generous FML policies that what is mandated by FMLA, so perhaps that kicks in early by policy, also.

      But yeah, I would confirm with HR that you are in fact eligible before you spend time on forms.

    3. Elizabeth*

      We are required to fill out the forms for any absence of 3 days or more, although the disability & FMLA won’t kick in until 5 days. And, we require it for all employees, regardless of length of service, so that we have proof that we’re reviewing all absences for potential application of FMLA.

      Fill out the paperwork and let HR do their thing.

    4. Johr*

      You definitely want to talk to someone in HR to make sure they sent you the right forms. At my company, even if FMLA doesn’t apply, we have non-FMLA forms we send out to anyone expecting to be out for more than 5 days due to a medical issue. This is company policy. Our short term disability kicks in after a 7 day waiting period so if someone was going to be out for 2 weeks we would still make them complete paperwork, mostly because a return date isn’t set in stone until you actually come back and a lot of times people end up needing more time than they expected to recover from surgery or the doctor won’t release them to return to work without a follow-up. If your company has short term disability, it also helps keep you from eating through all your PTO.

  121. Ruffingit*

    Sick of working for an arrogant prick of a boss. The atmosphere he creates is hard to walk into every day. Not to mention this was a really long week. I’m just exhausted. Argh!!!!

      1. Ruffingit*

        Thanks NSNR! I’m OK today, just had a rough week. It’s been very, very busy at work and my boss makes things do much harder with his attitude. Yesterday when I posted this, I’d just reached my limit of being able to handle it. I’ve been very tired lately so tomorrow I’m taking a day off from life. I plan to lay in bed and surf the net. ALL DAY. :)

  122. T*

    I’m about a month and a week into my new job and I can’t stop worrying about getting fired! I seem to be getting good feedback, but I keep worrying about every little thing. I’m starting to over-analyze how my boss speaks to me!! Like his tone of voice when he says “hi” is something I think about. How on earth can I stop doing this? It’s making me terrified of my boss!!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Maybe you can ask your co-workers for their opinions? Does your boss say “Hi” to them that way? What was their first month like? You’d be surprised how much you learn (and how sane you will feel) getting perspective from veterans on what they had to adjust to when they first arrived.

    2. TNTT*

      Did you come from a toxic workplace? I did, and I spent about my first six months at new job feelign this way. It will pass, keep reminding yourself that you’re finally working with competent, polite adults and you’ll be fine.

      1. T*

        Actually no, I think part of my fear is having to job-search/interview again. This is my first “real” job after graduation and I spent about 8 months searching before I got it. I think I”m really of being fired and having to find ANOTHER job again.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Then challenge yourself to follow that thought. Okay, if you get fired, what will you do?

          Probably grieve losing the job, first. After a bit, you’d pull yourself together and go look for another job. You found this one, so therefore you will find another one. Here is the real truth: This is not the last available job on earth. Tell yourself that, too.

          This week make it a point to strike up a conversation with the boss. Anything counts- talk about the weather, the Smith account, last week’s report, your new pup. Pick a topic and strike up a conversation. It is very hard to be afraid of someone that you can have a conversation with. Each time the fear hits, give yourself a time frame and within that time frame make a point to talk to the boss about anything. Yes, even two minutes of conversation count.
          You will find your fears subsiding the more you confront it head on. Yeah, this is tough stuff. So this week make an easy goal of starting one small conversation. Next week, make a goal a little tougher- start TWO conversations. Keep going like this, until the fear levels go down.

          If you do not confront this head on you could end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy. The boss may sense that something is very wrong and get tired of trying to guess what it is.

          I think another good thing to do would be to autopsy your job hunt. Figure out what you will do differently the next time you look for a job. You have the luxury now of doing that analysis- you know you have a paycheck coming in. It’s no longer a life and death matter to find a job. Put some time in to learning more and more about the job hunting process. Again, it’s hard to be totally afraid of something that you are knowledgeable about.

    5. CrazyCatLady*

      I do this regardless of how long I’ve been at a job. I’m much better at talking myself down from this type of anxiety though, and not taking it personally. What helps me is to think about all the times I may have a less-than-enthusiastic tone of voice, or when I may be distracted when saying hello or good bye… or when I’m lost in my thoughts and forget to say hello to someone. I do it to others all the time, and I never mean for it to be personal, so I try to remember that the same is probably true for them.

      1. Weasel007*

        I’m right there with you. I’m to the point that I get a panic attack on Wednesdays because that is the day they do layoffs. I believe I suffer from feedback ptsd…for real.

  123. Aunt Vixen*

    I have a co-worker whose last immediate family member is terminally ill. Went to visit for what everyone knew was the last time a couple of months ago, but family member has been hanging in there. Co-worker got a call from family member’s spouse this morning; it’s happening. Probably today, if my understanding of the description of the family member’s condition is accurate.

    We took the co-worker to lunch, of course. It’s good that we’re a tight team that looks out for one another. But what a grim day.

    1. Jean*

      A grim day, yes, but lightened just a bit for your coworker by your team’s support. When life hands out miserable-and-can’t-be-changed situations (like losing the last member of your immediate family) it makes a _huge_ difference to have people around who care about you.

  124. Jennifer*

    I have been helping a coworker with her Power Point presentation today that is due by the end of today (actual presentation is next week). I should probably clarify that these are 5-minute talks on cool things going on in the area (yes, this was mandated from on high to do them) and not exactly academic/hardcore/business presentations. But oh man, she’s just copying and pasting from various websites into Power Point. I suggested that rephrasing things in her own words to avoid plagiarism might be a good idea, but she doesn’t really care–she’s unhappy that she got told she has to turn in the Power Point today and says she doesn’t have time to rewrite it. I’m not sure how well she’d do at it if she tried–she’s not super linguistically gifted and is presenting about scientific topics that are hard to talk about and write about. And in all honesty, I doubt anyone is going to check or even care if she’s plagiarizing on this–and now she might have gotten someone else to come in and talk about it on her behalf so she won’t even have to say anything. So it’s probably not a big deal to anyone else, but the writing nerd in me is irritated.

    1. Lizzie*

      The writing nerd in me was irritated this week when I received a memo that referred to the gazillion feet of snow we’ve recently received as “the recent whether” and capitalized the first word of each line. Not each sentence, each line.

      Context: I work in an elementary school. Where we teach children not to capitalize the first word of each line simply because it’s a new line.

  125. Kelsey*

    I have a networking question. I am a college student who will be graduating in May. Today I attended a luncheon on campus where the guest is in a director level position in my field. It was a small group (only about 8 people) and she seemed very open to connecting with students. I would like to follow up with her and try to set up an informational interview. Is there a given amount of time I should wait before contacting her?

    1. fposte*

      I might wait until Monday so it seemed a little more considered, but I wouldn’t worry about it beyond that.

      1. JAL*

        This Monday is a holiday. Don’t forget :)
        (Except I don’t get off because my place doesn’t close for federal holidays).

  126. AmyNYC*

    I’m a little late to the open post, but maybe someone else killing time on a Friday has some input. I’ve posted before looking for advice on making due with an ok-to-boring job. My biggest complaint is that I’m not challenged, a little bored, can’t see any advancement, not interested in the work, expected to work long hours, discouraged from taking sick/vacation time…. Obviously, some of that is just about THIS office but all offices/jobs have boring parts so how do you know that it’s the specific job/office that you’re unhappy with and not your field or just office work in general?

    1. Celeste*

      Think about your best day in this job and see how highly you rate it. Think about what it would look like to have a superb day. See how closely they compare.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I could be wrong but it sounds like you have too many things going wrong here and it is going to be really hard to tell if it’s the work itself.

      For years, the idea of being tied to a desk was on a par with a death sentence to me. If I had to sit at a desk, I would die from boredom, not moving around, and solitude. It would have killed me, and that is as real as this monitor in front of me is right now. I could see that so clearly.
      I’ve changed and life has changed and now I do not mind working at a desk. It’s nice not to go home falling down exhausted. It’s nice to be able to safely steer the car homeward each night.

      It’s not a very good answer, but if I felt the way you do, I would start looking around. This is a poor answer because it’s not talking about where to look. Barest minimum look for something in your arena at a different company. Simply by changing companies you might be able to get rid of half of your dissatisfaction. Remove that half and see where it puts you. Also, start thinking about where you natural abilities are- what types of things do you do well with? You don’t have to answer here, just mull it over.

  127. Weasel007*

    Ugghhhh…massive massive layoffs at my work this week. Entire depts decimated. No ability to do knowledge transfer and multiple key roles just gone. Why does management still think this is okay?? I’m a shareholder too and I do not approve!! The people who are left are numb and are all looking to get out.

  128. Marina*

    What’s the etiquette about applying to multiple openings at a very large company? They’re all very similar, think all admin, but in different departments. Does this always make an applicant look desperate and unfocused, or if you write a convincing cover letter for each position is it okay?

    1. AnotherFed*

      Assuming you’re a good fit for all of them, then it’s fine. At a large company, even the HR reps may be different for different departments or locations, so you might not have any overlap between the people involved in the hiring process.

  129. Anon for this*

    Quick question – I have a job that’s turned super super part time – e.g., 3-4 hours every few weeks. At this point, it feels weird to me to still list it as a current position (for awhile I was at 10-20 hours/week)… should I put the end date as when it became super super part time, or keep it as is? If it matters, I just finished my last FT contract for an unrelated this month, and I’m job-searching. :/

    1. AnotherFed*

      You technically are still employed there, so I would keep it – if potential employers verify your employment history, it’s better not to have the appearance of lying/hiding anything, even if most people would understand. Once you have a FT position, then you might just relegate it to the “Other Experience Section” of your resume.

  130. GOG11*

    Update on my office move:

    I just got back from a DR appointment and all of the medicines my doctor can try are making me too sick, and I’m too sick to leave my condition untreated.

    Part of what is making me sick is my office and if the small fixes my organization tried didn’t work (they didn’t), they offered to move me to a different set of departments. At this point, my doctor is recommending that I take their offer and switch departments/jobs.

    This is really hard.

    Aside from that, accommodations in general are a really touchy topic for me because having to have them means I’m getting sicker and that’s scary. Also, my job has its ups and downs, but I don’t want to switch. It’s not like I’m getting fired, but this whole situation makes me surprisingly emotional.

    How can I discuss this professionally? I don’t break down sobbing, but I can’t seem to keep from crying when I think about it.

    1. LCL*

      Hi. I responded to one of your earlier posts. I can tell this is causing you a tremendous amount of stress. I think you should spend a day or two away from work, decide what you want from this job, and mentally rehearse your conversations.
      First, frame things positively to yourself. Your job is willing to work with you and is actually doing it, not just saying they are employee friendly. And it sounds like you are able to get medical treatment.
      Once you have decided what you want to do, then talk to your boss.
      I hope you feel better.

    2. fposte*

      Sorry, GOG11. I totally get what you mean about the stress of the underlying implications, too; I would get emotional about this as well.

      My suggestion isn’t an answer to the “how”–it’s to leave the idea alone for the weekend and then come back to it next week. The topic’s never going to be pleasant, but right now it’s all your mental landscape can accommodate. A few nights’ sleep might give you a little more insulation.

      (I also might just be matter-of-fact about the possibility that you might cry rather than steeling yourself against it. Sometimes crying just wants to win the fight, and if you stop fighting it slinks away in disappointment.)

    3. GOG11*

      Thank you, LCL and fposte – I really appreciate both of your comments more than I can say.

      I am going to try to give myself a break this weekend and approach the issue once I’ve had some time to rest. I hadn’t realized how much this whole thing has been stressing me physically and emotionally until today when my BP was way high (for the third visit in a row) and I started crying in my doctor’s office.

      I hate crying in front of people in any context (not just at work), but maybe not building it up in my head will help prevent it. And even if I do end up crying a bit maybe it won’t reflect too poorly on me.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Cry when you need to. I have talked about my “planned cries” that I used to do. I was having a problem with tears just coming out at the worst times possible. So I did planned cries at home. It seemed to help- sometimes I had to put on sad music or read a sad story to push the tears out.
      We have the ability to cry for a reason, it triggers chemical responses in us that actually help us.

      The other thing I see is that you don’t feel that you are going TOWARD something, you feel you are going AWAY from something instead. Is there anyway that you can frame this transfer as going toward something that will be better in some way?

      I am sorry you are going through this. I hope you get some good news on something soon.

      1. GOG11*

        “The other thing I see is that you don’t feel that you are going TOWARD something, you feel you are going AWAY from something instead. Is there anyway that you can frame this transfer as going toward something that will be better in some way?”

        This is a really good point. It’s hard for me to do that because I don’t know what I’m going toward (they haven’t told me where I would go if I had to switch). I will be sure to ask during the initial conversation so I can work toward this.

  131. Anonsie*

    Oh I have another one: What should you do if you’re supposed to fact-check just one section of a document before it goes to press, but you see a lot of other errors that have nothing to do with you? Wrong information, formatting, typos, etc. If fixing them isn’t necessarily your job, it feels presumptuous to just edit it, but just saying you noticed some errors when you send back your own edits seems a little crummy somehow. It’s safe to assume at least some won’t get changed before it goes to print if you don’t say anything at all, though, from experience.

    Is there a tactful way to make sure it gets examined a little more closely than it normally is without just editing it yourself? This happens often enough and the fixes are time consuming enough that I feel a little put out doing that, and/or I don’t always have the time.

    2. GOG11*

      This isn’t a systematic approach, but I was printing some reference letters for one colleague who had written them for another soon-to-be former colleague and noticed an error. I approached the letter writer and said, “I’ve done so much editing work that things tend to jump out at me and I noticed X. Would you like me to go ahead and fix it before printing?” He took it very well and was glad I pointed it out even though it wasn’t my job to look it over and fix it (and I didn’t sit down and read it – I just saw the error because I’m weird like that).

      1. Anonsie*

        That’s what I would do if it were a smaller thing or was unusual, but unfortunately neither is true. It’d be maybe 30 minutes worth of edits all throughout the thing and this happens, I don’t know, a few times a year? I guess that doesn’t seem like a lot but that makes up the grand majority of times I work with this other department. I don’t want it to turn into a thing where every time they send me something I’m coming back to them with a laundry list of complaints outside what they asked me to do, but it also seems necessary on a certain level.

        1. GOG11*

          Ah, okay. I had missed that the first time around.

          I don’t know how you can handle it. I have trouble dealing with the things that are big enough to be significant to me, but small enough to potentially be seen as petty to the person being asked to change. As someone who appreciates consistency, accuracy and quality, I can empathize with you on the difficulty of just letting mistakes slide :/

        2. Jennifer*

          Are you actually physically making fixes yourself, or telling someone else to do fixes?
          If it’s the first one, I just end up doing them all myself–my coworkers are not great at that. If you have to tell someone else to fix…I guess ask them if they’d like you to proofread the rest of it for them too.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Can you ask the person who hands you the work how they would like you to handle these things in the future?

  132. super anon*

    i found out i didn’t get the job at a place i interviewed, and i was a bit disappointed and sad (rejection hurts after all, even though allison tells us to move on, i found it’s not as easy in practice to move on after not getting a job offer). upon further reflection, i think it may have been for the best. at one point the interviewer told me that she worked every single day of her 2 week christmas vacation and that her assistant would have to be a go-getter like her. to me, that seemed a bit silly, because you need a vacation to recharge and make sure you can do the best work possible. but at the same time, i’m only in my mid 20s, so maybe there’s things about the working world that i don’t know yet – like working through your entire vacation is a mandatory thing that real adults do?

    should something like that be a red flag to me in my hunt? or is that standard fare for adult life. i’ve only ever worked hourly jobs where putting down my work and leaving it at the office was an absolute requirement, so i have no idea how salaried positions work.

    1. Burlington*

      Eh. Ideally, it would never happen. And if you decide that you really, really value it, you can find jobs that will let you totally disconnect. BUT, working every single day of a vacation might not mean working ALL day every day… it could mean that she worked 20 minutes each day keeping her email clear. And some roles are definitely more demanding than others. High-level people are sometimes expected to be on-call all the time. Assistant roles are also famous for demanding work during the evenings, weekends or during vacation.

      1. super anon*

        i would’ve been the assistant manager, but basically working as her assistant because she had too much work to do to get it all done by herself. from that, i got the impression that the work she was doing wasn’t just email checking for 20 min a day.

        there were some other things that seemed a bit off upon further reflection, like that she demanded perfection from her staff, and they she told me she had a hard time delegating any work because she knew that she could do it better.

        i’m not scared of hard work/long hours (i used to regularly work 70 to 80 hours a week at two jobs for fun during the summer, and then work full time hours + do university full time), but i really don’t want to end up in a place where i feel obligated to work through my vacation (i’ve never had one before, so i’d ideally like to enjoy one when i can finally go) either.

        1. Marina*

          Coming out and SAYING that, without any sense of self-awareness that it’s a bad thing, is absolutely a red flag. A manager who can’t delegate may be good at the task she’s not delegating, but she’s terrible at managing. I don’t think people with that mindset are uncommon, you’ll probably run into a lot of others, but just because it’s normal doesn’t mean it’s a good thing.

    2. MsM*

      Yeah, I’d call that a red flag. Emergencies happen, and there are certain jobs (like mine) where what constitutes a Christmas break for the rest of the office is not a break for you, but my bosses have all encouraged me to make up for that by taking vacation at other times of the year. And then told me to get off email when I was supposed to be on break.

    3. katamia*

      I don’t think this is how all offices are (this definitely wasn’t standard in the office I worked in), but I don’t think this is automatically a red flag, either. As you get more work experience, you’ll find out what sorts of things are most important to you in your work environment and what your dealbreakers really are.

      Personally, as someone who eventually wants to support myself solely with my creative work, working through my vacation would be really frustrating–that’s my time to hone my craft, submit my work, keep up with the industry I actually want to be in, etc. So, yeah, that would be a dealbreaker for me unless the job were in the field I want in the long run. But if a similar situation comes up in a field you’re confident you want to work in for the long haul, then giving up a vacation in the short term, as long as you weren’t likely to burn out, might be worth it for some people.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      You dodged a bullet here.
      This would have been a miserable place to work. And everything you said is the list of reasons why.
      I don’t see one red flag, I see many.

  133. Anonyby*

    Not really a question for today, just need to be saying it.

    Feb kinda exploded on me. My job is part time with inconsistent hours, but this month I was getting calls for coverage left and right, to the point where I’m going to be near FT hours for this month (and then it’s likely to calm down again next month). I haven’t been as busy as this before in the 5 years I’ve been with the company. On the one hand, whoo, money! On the other, I’m definitely feeling the energy drain and haven’t had anything to put into my job hunt.

    Of course it didn’t help that my social calendar also had a mini-explosion last week, piling on to the work explosion. lol That’s for a different thread, though.

    Another upside is that two projects that will probably end up lasting beyond Feb both involve data entry! Much happier doing that than front desk work, and it’ll give me some more notches for my resume.

    1. GOG11*

      I am right there with you. Literally every day this week I’ve gotten a new project/ongoing task added to my plate. I’m glad you’re able to take on some duties that allow you to develop new skills/experience for when you resume your job search.

  134. justine*

    Thank you to everywhere who gave me suggestions on my road trip destinations! I went to the CUPBOARD in Memphis and it was amazing!!!! I took my friend who lives in Memphis and she said it was the best catfish and cornbread she’s ever had!!!

    Also, I had the final pre interview with my EEO officer and, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but everyone named said they were angels and they did nothing wrong, except the one person who had already been counseled for his behavior. I guess he couldn’t deny it. My next step is a formal complaint where the officer said everyone would give their statement under oath and that could change their tune.

    The thing that really concerned me was that the EEO officer would tell me she spoke to person X about saying this and I’d have to correct her that that was the wrong person. I hope she didn’t get things wrong when she spoke to people, but I have no idea. The EEO officer has been not as detailed as I had expected an investigator would be.

    I heard the EEO Commission is looking for feedback on the federal process and I’m going to share my experience with them. No one should ever be stalled in trying to file and EEO complaint – especially not for as long as I was (9 weeks).

  135. Noelle*

    Help! I have an interview with a place I temped at over 7 years ago. They know this, but I didn’t list the position on my resume since it was only a few months. My question is this – I have to fill out a form listing my last 4 employers. The temp position would be the 4th employer, but I don’t know if I should list it or my internship (which is on my resume), which would otherwise be my 4th. Would you list the internship or the temp work? Or just leave the 4th blank since I’ve only really had 3 jobs?

    Also, there’s a separate part of the form that asks if I’ve previously been employed there. Technically I was employed by the temp agency. Should I just list my supervisor from when I worked there? We haven’t stayed in touch and I also don’t know if I should reach out.

    1. GOG11*

      I would keep consistent with your resume and list your internship in that spot since there’s a place to address your previous temp work there. I would state that you were placed on an assignment there through X temp agency (as well as what that assignment was).

  136. Semanon*

    Hello.

    I’m currently a comm college student. In my previous college life I did quite a bit of student life work. Now I work with students in my part-time job.

    I will be finished with classes in May and hope to do an internship over the summer (this semester’s schedule was inconvenient for maintaining one).

    There is a specific issue relative to my major and higher education that I feel strongly about, and while I don’t know all of the specifics about the problem or the best solution, I think comm colleges, mine included, need to address it.

    I’m not sure my department chair or the other chair that would handle this have the time to take on a big initiative. They seem to have extremely full plates as it is. It’s not common to have student workers or interns or graduate students or admin assistants to help support any projects. I don’t think it can be done without some degree of institutional support. While I doubt the school would hire someone to do this work (and I think this is a rare example where hiring a full-time worker with benefits isn’t the best choice at the moment), I’m wondering if I could make up my own internship or independent study for this. I don’t qualify for work study so that’s not an option (already have a BS).

    For those that work in higher ed, do you think this is feasable? Do you have any suggestions? I plan on working on it over spring break, but don’t know much about how new iniatives are explored when hiring is very slow.

    1. Semanon*

      (it’s so cold today, my fingers can’t seem to type!)

      Also, I should probably clarify that my goal is to get the comm college to recognize one of the shortcomings of its educational model compared to universities (which also suck in this regard) for my field and to try to fill the gaps as best as possible.

      I also really miss establishing and improving programs (as well as diminishing the fallout from cutting ones that don’t make sense) and would love to apply myself again, something I don’t have much of opportunity to do unless I try to create my own. My resume has long gaps of unemployment and since graduation years ago I haven’t really taken on additional responsibilities. So many I could try to as a student.

    2. Marina*

      Pursuing it as an independent study would probably be the best bet. Do you know what department you’d want the project to be under? If so your best bet might be going directly to the person you would want to supervise you and propose it to them. If you’re not sure which department, start with the academic advising department and ask how to set up an independent study. Usually you’ll need a supervising professor, a bunch of forms filled out, and some demonstration of how the study relates to your academic field.

    3. Schuyler*

      When you mention department chair, I assume you mean the department you’re working in, is that correct? If that’s the case, I think it would be worth speaking to the supervisor in your job about it. Oftentimes, schools don’t really offer internships that aren’t for credit, and it’s an internship for credit, someone(s) in the department will have to be responsible for defining and measuring learning outcomes for you, which may not be something they’re willing or able to do at this point. In addition, if it’s a project that might need to continue on after you’re done with the internship, it would be something that would require ongoing work from the department’s end to keep up, so they’d have to be able to support that endeavor.

      Related to work study: unlike other forms of aid (for instance, Pell grant), having a bachelor’s degree does not disqualify you for work study unless the institution’s policy states this. It’s not a federal requirement.

      If this was something for my higher ed master’s program, I would propose it as an independent study possibility. As a full-time staff member in higher ed, having an intern is not something my office would be able to support at this point.

      I hope you’ll give an update about what you decide(d) to do.

  137. Hlyssande*

    Exciting frustration!

    1. Today just found out that I could view/comment on the FRS for an upcoming application build that’s to be released for testing on Monday. Almost positive this was never communicated to the SME testers previously.

    2. Found out that there’s an enhancement listed in the FRS that I and the other SMEs specifically stated should NOT be included for any reason and the project manager agreed with us (don’t put a new button at the bottom when the users can accomplish the exact same thing with a single click at the top, which is clearly explained) in their training documents. And yet, it’s in there and it PISSES ME OFF. The FRS item states that this field will be visible/usable by all groups using this application when it was a question from one out of 60+ and is a simple training issue that doesn’t need a programmatic fix for. So frustrated.

  138. AdminiMe*

    I’m an admin in higher ed and have to interview a candidate for a position in our office next week. Can anyone help me out with questions?

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      What role are you playing in the hiring process? Are you a decision-maker? Are you interviewing the candidate after she has already met with other people? The questions you’ll want to cover will vary by the situation.

      Either way, you should ask the questions you genuinely want to know the answers to. How will you be working with her? What would you want to know about a potential colleague that can help you decide whether you will work well together?

      If you’re meeting her at the end of the process and you’re not a decision-maker, I suspect you’ll want to focus on “fit” issues. What kind of work environment does she thrive in? What kind of management style? What has she struggled with, and what has she excelled in?

      If you are a decision-maker, then think about what you need from someone in this role and ask questions to ascertain her experience with that kind of work and her ways of thinking about it.

    2. AnotherFed*

      Ask “Tell me about a time when X, and how you handled it” type questions. For X, fill in things that this person might have to deal with, like a last minute hugely important project, or a furious customer or difficult team situation, or doing detail oriented work while handling constant interruptions, or the biggest mistake they’ve made. Those will let you decide if you can see them working out in the role, and will give them some idea of what skills you’d expect them to need.

  140. Mar*

    My friend just applied for a job and noticed that a contact she knows from a professional group has been consulting with them for a couple years. What’s the best way for my friend to email the contact and ask for her thoughts on working at the org, and requesting that she put in a good word for her? She is very conscious of not wanting to take advantage of the relationship, and wants to give the contact an out in case she doesn’t feel comfortable. Would love some advice!

    1. Aussie Teacher*

      I would reach out to the contact and ask her thoughts about the org etc and say I’m applying. I’d ask things like “How do you find the culture/do you enjoy working there?” and “Do you think my skill set would be a good fit for the role?” etc. If she thinks your friend would be good there, she’ll likely put in a good word for her all on her own (I know I would, if a contact was applying at my school).

  141. Zinnias*

    Just finished the job application for a federal government position. I currently work in the comparable agency in state government. And I just want to say that the application system for the federal government system is not at all intuitive. I am fortunate I knew colleagues I could call to ask how the process worked–it just wouldn’t have occurred to me to include all the things they wanted in the resume (ohmygoodness–so many pages!). I’m embarrassed by how many hours on spent on that application!

    But yay! All done!

  142. AnonForComment*

    Anyone have any experience navigating the corporate waters while dealing with Type 2 Bipolar disorder?

    After spending my early twenties getting royally screwed over with a couple of jobs (not caused by, but certainly exacerbated by my condition), the last three years I have actually been doing ok. Ironically, it was the decision to stop the constant stream of meds my sham doctor had me on and instead focus on learning to identify triggers and at control my emotional responses at work which seem to have helped the most. I am now seen as a team player, and though my job is not stellar in any respect, I am doing well at it and seem to be maintaining if not thriving.

    But it’s not easy, and there are definitely days where 90% of my energy is spent regulating my emotions and reactions. And it’s hard not to feel depressed when I talk to my friends, most of whom are doing well for themselves now while I white-knuckle things for a $30k salaried position.

    Anyone else dealing with this and have any strategies? I’m trying to find a good therapist for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, but that increasingly seems like finding a unicorn.

    1. anonforthis*

      Honestly finding the right combination of meds and therapy was what helped me. It definitely took a lot of tries for both, but it was worth it.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      No experience but just a general comment: In my early years of working I found that I was yanked around by my emotions too much, it was detrimental to my growth. I don’t think my setting was as much as what you have on your plate, so this is not a comparison thing AT ALL. This is just a thought I am sharing.

      At first I tried to fix me and that is all I did. This was a painful process. I had misconceptions, misunderstandings and other things to sort through.

      As time marched on, I became more and more interested in the subject of human nature- people doing “peopley” things. I learned about human emotions, how people react to stuff and WHY they react the way they do. This stuff fascinated me, I learned so much. I am still learning. My suggestion to you is at some point in the future maybe decide to become a student of human nature. But for now, you have to invest in you, first.

      When I started doing this I had no clue what was a common struggle and what was an unusual struggle for people. What I learned amazed me. We have a lot in common but we are so different.
      Many people have had it much harder than I ever did. I like to read their stories to learn about their responses- what worked, what did not work. I have a tremendous respect for the creative solutions people find and for their incredibly hard work they do to change their lives. These stories teach me, motivate me, inspire me, etc.

  143. Kate*

    AHH I’ve been planning to post a question all week but totally forgot! The question is, how would a European MBA be looked at in the US? My husband-elect has the opportunity to work in Germany for a few years, which I would absolutely love, but I was planning to go to business school next. I’ve been looking at MBA programs over there, and and some look interesting, and of course, the tuition rates look quite appealing. Obviously some schools are ranked better than others, but in terms of countries, does it matter where you do an MBA? I’m most interested in accounting and finance, so I figure that in the worst case, I can go for CPA certification, or maybe do a one-year master’s of accounting program back in the US.

    Thanks if anyone scrolls down this far!!

    1. GOG11*

      I work at a university and quite a few of the faculty have advanced degrees from other countries, including individuals in business and finance, though how big of a deal it is may differ by field/industry.

    2. AnotherFed*

      It depends on what you want to do with the MBA afterwards. In the US, there’s some stigma with almost any degree from a non-US school, and depending on what other education and work experience you have, you might have some questions about citizenship, English-language skills, etc. If the rest of your resume is great, and you don’t want to work for the kinds of places that want Yale and Harvard degrees, you’re probably just fine.

      One thing to check – are the classes going to be in English, or German? One of my classmates did a year long study abroad program in Germany, including taking his engineering classes in German. He did fine, but upon returning he didn’t know the English words for some things.

  144. Whippers*

    How do you deal with a a manager whose primary management strategy seems to be to prevent staff getting above their station? I know this is a strategy of hers because he told a supervisor not to praise staff too much because they may get too confident.

    Anyway, in my recent 1:1 with her, she cursorily acknowledged my good work over the year,( which included a lot of hers), didn’t give me any chance to discuss my development, before spending the majority of the time focusing on minor issues. I feel like he does this so you will doubt yourself and not ask for recognition of good work.
    It’s got to the point where I don’t really care what he thinks anymore because I know that no matter how good a job I do, the smallest of mistakes will override this. Whilst I say I don’t care what he thinks, that’s not to say I don’t care about doing my job well as I still do for my own satisfaction.

    Do you think I should try to raise this with him, or just leave it? I feel that if I did raise it, he would claim that she does recognise good work. But he does this very cursorily and generally with a statement like “You’re doing a good job”, but goes into real specifics of your mistakes with great relish.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I’d deal with it by looking for a new job. Seriously. Do the best you can each day, take advantage of whatever opportunities sneak past your boss and realize that you will probably have to move on.

      1. Whippers*

        Do you really think it’s unsalvagable? I mean, do you think that this is the sort of situation that isn’t ever going to improve, regardless of anything you could say to the manager?

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Upfront-you are the one in the situation so I say let your intuition, the advice of others right around you trump any thing I have to say. This is because I am not there, I don’t see all the little details running in the background.

          In my experience, no, this will not change. You have a boss that is insecure. Until he decides to grow more confident, there is very little you can do to change him.

          I had a boss that felt that saying “please/thank you” was a show of weakness. I tried for years to get over this hurdle. Nothing worked, nothing. This boss also believed that angry people worked harder. I could not do anything to change that, either.

          Meanwhile, I also see you as probably being a super employee. You probably have strong potential for growth and the aptitude and capacity for it. If you really want to talk to him, I don’t think it will hurt you. Except for the part where you see that he launches into a mile long list of your recent “mistakes”.
          If you do talk to him, in your own mind, privately, set a time frame. Decide that you need to see X amount of improvement in Y months. And expect the improvement to be enduring- not something that goes for a few weeks then disappears again. After Y months have passed, reconsider what you are doing here.

          See, good bosses, do not take delight in their subordinates failures. Good bosses realize that if the subordinate does well that reflects on them as a boss, also. Good bosses want their subordinates to succeed as often as possible. If something does go awry, a good boss will explain how to prevent that problem in the future.

          Extraordinary bosses, realize that some subordinates will go on and climb higher on the company ladder than they are. Yes, the subordinate could become their boss. An extraordinary boss understands this happens, too. And the extraordinary boss realizes that it is a privilege to be a part of a process that raises up such a leader.

          I hope this helps somehow.

  145. Skye*

    I just need to vent a little.

    My task is to process as many reports as possible before the end of March. Every report requires several steps to process. Coworkers A and B have been asked to help me do the first step (by my manager, not me), which saves me a lot of time and lets me finish almost twice as many reports than when I do the entire process by myself. I recognize that they have other tasks that take priority and helping me is last on their list – this is fine. Except A works at a glacial pace that becomes frustrating when she tells me to slow down or take a break. If I start pulling out the correct reports to process, so that A and B don’t have to worry about getting the wrong ones, A will say I slow down. If I go to her to politely ask if she has more prepped reports when I run out, she still tells me to slow down. When I check with B when I run out, there’s none of this ‘slow down’ stuff.

    I’m just frustrated that I’m getting “you work to fast” and “you need to slow down” from the person who takes multi-hour lunch breaks because she falls asleep at home.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      When people have told me to slow down to accommodate their snail’s pace I tell them “I can’t, this is the pace I work at.”
      If push comes to shove, I have said, “I am going to give a day’s work for a day’s pay. For me, to do anything less would be dishonest.” The running comments usually come to a hard stop after I say something like that.

  146. M.*

    So update on the suspected gas leak at work last week, it turns out that it was a gas leak and the fire department cleared it. Which meant that there was no need to stop production and work went on as normal. The story was that there had been no gas leak, but the Production Head let it slip, and only one of the coordinators was telling everyone the whole story.

    I’m officially applying to other jobs now.

  147. AW*

    I’m a salaried employee who’s required to log hours worked on projects. During my interview, I asked about overtime and on call requirements. I was told that working over 40 hours a week was rare and there was no on call work.

    Anyone in a managerial position has said that any hours worked on a project must be logged, even if that means going over the allotted hours. The importance of getting work done in the estimated number of hours is emphasized but they’ve never told me to work off the clock.

    However, I do have two co-workers who keep asking me to do work and not log the time. They are not managers of people or projects, nor are they project leads. But the weirdest thing about these requests is that they seem unnecessary. I would at least understand their motivation if they were trying to meet a deadline or trying to make up for lost time due to an error. But the latest requests include adding an unrequested (and in my opinion, bad) feature to a project the manager told us to stop work on and giving another co-worker time estimates I know are too low and working unlogged hours to make up for it even though this co-worker knows I’m unfamiliar with the system.

    I thought at first this may have just been the workplace culture but I don’t get this from anyone else.

    I’m baffled. What’s going on here?

    1. Marina*

      Might as well ask them directly. As long as the tone you hit is curious rather than confrontational I don’t think it’d cause any harm.

  148. Trixie*

    I began teaching a few yoga group classes at the new gym in town and its going well on many levels. Between regular classes and crazy busy subbing at old and new gym, my schedule has exploded. 30 days of yoga, anyone? The new place pays double what the old place does which is way more than I’d hoped or expected. By helping cover all the classes I can now, I’m hoping they’ll be impressed enough with the team attitude to work with me when I scale back for FT job.

    If you workout regularly at your gym, ask about becoming an instructor. If they’ve seen you in class and are happy with your form, attitude, etc, you could have the perfect PT job fall into your lap.

    1. voluptuousfire*

      ^ This works also if you have yoga teacher certification. If you don’t, I could see that being an issue.

  149. Fruitfly*

    I am almost going to graduate from graduate school and I might be graduating with honors. However, I still feel immature and inexperience. I do not have much workplace or much social-interactive experience. I often have trouble making connections/relationships with people, and it had made it really difficult for me to find jobs, communicate effectively, or do certain coordinating task. Therefore, I feel a bit weird graduating with honors in a Masters degree program with no “useful” skills yet.

    1. AW*

      You may need to work on your soft skills but that doesn’t mean you don’t have any useful skills. Your Masters degree proves that you are particularly knowledgeable in your subject area and that you are willing to work hard. That’s useful. You communicate very well in writing which is another useful skill.

      One thing you should work on is shutting down negative self-talk. Read “Self-Promotion for Introverts”; it addresses that. “Networking is a Contact Sport” may also be useful. It emphasizes helping people as a networking method versus just trying to sell yourself.

      If you have trouble communicating in person in a networking/workplace type of setting then try practicing online (like you’re doing now) and at social gatherings. You can join a group on LinkedIn, find a Stack Exchange site related to your subject area (bonus: answering questions there proves both your knowledge and your ability to solve problems), do some volunteer work, and/or a MeetUp in your area. If your school has any kind of career center then utilize it now. Practice with mock interviews if they do those.

      Captain Awkward has several really good advice posts on how to meet people and make friends. Specifically letters #153, #338 (keep in touch with professors after you graduate), #652, #558 (there’s a section on how to be interesting which should help with the social interaction thing), #546 (learn to be nice to yourself), #508 & #509 (info on attachment styles), and #475. Really you can just go through the friendship and social interaction tags but I wanted to point out a few specific ones for you.

      Good luck!

      1. Fruitfly*

        Thank you, AW, for your tips and support.

        As my graduation grows near, I do get some a little nervous. My subject of study can be very technical, and it takes constant practice to remember the concepts. Sometimes I forget the concepts after just three weeks of not looking at the material. It gets frustrating when that happens, but I am glad that I was able to work hard on my classes during that time to get a good grade.

        I know that I am not obligated to fulfilled anyone’s expectations or stereotype of Master degree holders. But I do get self conscious when I feel that I might not possess the skills that I should have gained as a graduate of that particular Masters degree program. What if my family, family-friends, or employers gets disillusioned about my graduate school achievement?

        Currently, I am trying to do non-academic things such as reading regular books instead of textbooks, writing a personal journal, watching drama series, etc. in order to learn more about the professional environment, our country’s institutions, and written communication. I hope this could help me fill in the gaps in my knowledge that I was not able to gain when I was college and going to graduate school.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Keep reading here, too. It’s a gold mine.
      You can also think about people you and others admire and copy what they do.
      It’s good that you have identified the problem, because that is 50% of the solution right there.

  150. Brian_A*

    I might be overthinking this one, but when someone reaches out to ask you to act as a reference, do you prefer it be by telephone or email?

    1. Fruitfly*

      If I were in a management position, I would prefer in an email so that I can have some time to respond appropriately and clearly. I also ask my references by email as well.

  151. Brian_A*

    Sorry – I should add that I have been at the same organization (in the same department) for over 6 years, so I’m also reaching out to former managers who I have not spoken to in a few years!

  152. Mander*

    Argh, I missed this on Friday, but in case anyone’s still reading this thread here goes.

    There are two rather different openings at the same company that I’m interested in right now. One is for the kind of job that I am most qualified for; the problem is that it’s been a while since I’ve done it, I don’t have much experience in the details, and I am really physically out of shape and not sure I can keep up. (The job requires a lot of manual labour and the location is very different from anywhere I’ve worked before, which means that I’m not familiar with the specific environment). But I have a decent shot at getting a job because they have posted in multiple social networks that they are really short of people. It would only be a temporary contract, probably 6 months at the most.

    The other position is in a related area that I am interested in trying to get into. I went to a professional training seminar about it last year, and though I had never considered it before it seems like it meshes with my current skills and interests a lot better than field work. It also would be permanent, although the pay is terrible.

    I want to hedge my bets and apply for both of them, but since the application process is strictly a form with no cover letter (although there is a space for a “short statement”) I’m not sure how to attempt this. Two forms, with statements tailored to each position? One form with a statement that explains that my experience is more in line with position 1 but I want to move into work like position 2? Or do I forget trying to apply for both, and just pick one?

    1. Brian_A*

      It sounds like the jobs are vastly different, and probably in different departments within the company – presumably the applications would go to different hiring managers, at least once it gets through screening at HR. If I were in your position, I would probably apply for each separately, and use separate statements tailored to each position. Good luck!

  153. Corporate Newbie*

    I am caught in a dilemma regarding a job application. Let me lay out the chain of events.
    Day 1: Saw dream job posting, perfect fit, no info on recruiter/ hiring manager. Searched for the only person (let’s call her Lady A) on LinkedIn from that department, sent InMail to ask a quick question.
    Day 2: Received reply from Lady A, who said the job doesn’t report to her, encouraged me to apply online
    Day 3: Received unsolicited LinkedIn request from a recruiter for A, who turned out to be in charge of that posting. Told him I’ve sent in the application.
    Day 5: Received surprise InMail from Lady A. Told me that the hiring manager is interested in talking to me. She asked if recruiter has reached out.
    Day 6-10: Nothing from recruiter. Sent followup email for updates, nothing.
    What does it mean? Where should I go from here? Should I try to connect directly with the hiring manager? Do I risk irritating the recruiter?

    1. Corporate Newbie*

      Correction:
      “Day 3: Received … recruiter for A” should be
      “Day 3: Received … recruiter for dream job company”

    2. Adrian*

      Sounds like the recruiter has gone silent. I would reach out to the hiring manager and explain to him you are contacting him because the recruiter is not responding; which can make it seem to the hiring manager that you are not responding. If the hiring manager is interested he will do one of two things (possibly both):
      1. Interview you and give the recruiter a sharp cut-out-of-a-commission lesson
      2. Light a fire under the recruiter’s behind to stay in contact and work with you

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