open thread – August 7, 2015

by Alison Green on August 7, 2015

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

{ 1,404 comments }

{ 1,404 comments… read them below }

  1. Mockingjay*

    Meeting Minutes Saga: had to do them for the monthly all-staff gathering. Admin Assistant showed up with a notepad and phone. As usual, she did not write down a single word.

    For the record, she still has not completed the minutes from last month’s brief that Intrepid Colleague got sucked into covering as well (“to back her up”). Boss continues to say nothing.

    Job Search: Interview went well yesterday. I met with the VP and the HR Manager.

    I asked them to describe their company culture. HR Manager thought that was a very good question (thanks, Alison!). She described it as pretty relaxed – it’s a small software/IT company. But I got a mixed vibe:
    – The HR Recruiter was wearing jeans.
    – The HR Manager wore slacks and a light sweater.
    – The VP was in very starched white shirt and tie.

    Of course, the top echelon is usually more formal in a company, but the VP seemed really buttoned up. Body language – kept leaning waaay back in his chair, rather than leaning forward to engage.

    The position is actually a little lower-level than the description indicated (although the technical knowledge required to do the work is rather high). That wasn’t disclosed until well into the interview. They asked me to provide a writing sample, which I can work on over the weekend.

    Based on what I have learned here at AAM, if I get an offer, I am going to consider long and hard whether this would be a good fit. I didn’t walk out thinking, “Wow, I want to work here!” It was more like, meh.

    2. Dawn*

      Are you going to be working directly with the VP? If not, then he is probably just acting like “big business VP man”. I have known a TON of VP level men and women who at first glance look all hard-ass and buttoned up but when you get to know them they’re actually super chill and really good at management.

      Not saying don’t think long and hard about taking the job, just that sometimes people in upper management look a particular way without actually being a particular way!

      1. Mockingjay*

        Yes, I would be interacting with him quite a bit. It is a technical proposal writing position and he will review/sign off on all submissions.

        I will see what happens with the writing sample.

    3. nep*

      Whenever someone I’m talking to leans waaaaaay back in their chair, my thoughts go immediately to my breath. (Though my thoughts were probably there already because I’ve got a big issue with that.)

    4. Rbit*

      For the note about clothes – my company recently switched to a casual environment (t-shirts, jeans, shorts, sandals), but you get a wide mixture between departments and people. Usually people interacting with clients stick to more formal wear (slacks, button shirt or polo), while those that are mainly internal interactions go for casual. However, it’s personal preference too – there are still those that don’t interact with clients that wear slacks with buttoned shirts or polos and dress shoes. Others wear shorts, tennis shoes, and t-shirts. It doesn’t appear to be generational as to the mix either. So it probably depends on the dress code they have on what you can wear and what you prefer/feel comfortable to wear.

  2. FAQ?*

    Hi Alison, I’ve been reading through your archives and notice some questions seems to come up rather frequently in the comments (e.g. ‘what’s the meaning of chocolate teapots?’), have you thought about including an FAQ section on your blog?

    (or do you already have one that I haven’t noticed yet?)

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      In theory, I think it would be great to have one for substance stuff that comes up all the time (like “when do I mention my pre-planned vacation while I’m interviewing for a new job?” and “do I need to address my cover letter using the hiring manager’s name?”), but in reality I am too lazy to make it happen.

      2. LBK*

        I suspect your highly productive, organized and enthusiastic reader base wouldn’t mind contributing if you were open to crowd-sourcing the rough draft. Maybe a Google doc?

        4. GOG11*

          Oh, I’m willing to help with that, but I don’t know enough about crowd sourcing to take the lead/get it started.

          1. GOG11*

            Thank you for getting this started. I went to the link, but nothing it’s giving me a blank document. I don’t mean to be a pain (I’m trying to be the opposite!)…did something happen to it?

    2. gsa*

      FAQ?,

      The search function on this site is as strong as the content, IOW: very!

      Give it a try. I will post a link of an example shortly.

      1. ACA*

        I think she means more like a guide to commonly used terms – chocolate teapots, Wakeen, Hanukkah Balls, etc. – the kinds of things that wouldn’t be obvious and could very well be confusing to a newer reader. Someone did a really helpful one for Captain Awkward that I’ll link in another comment.

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Ah, I see. I’m not so much a fan of that kind, at least for here; I think it can look a little overly precious to someone who’s not already a regular. (If I was reading a site for the first time and saw a guide to inside jokes, I think I’d get a different idea of the site than if I discovered those jokes naturally over time.) I might be the only who feels that way, but for some reason it’s not my bag :)

          1. Christy*

            I’m totally with you. I think a frequently asked-to-Alison questions page would be useful, though, particularly for those who are new to the site.

          2. JB (not in Houston)*

            That kind of thing is very helpful to me as someone who, when reading online comments, doesn’t always get inside jokes; doesn’t always know if something’s an inside joke, a joke of any kind, or something I should be able to pick up on; and doesn’t want to be the 100th person to ask to have it explained to them.

            But I definitely think I’m in the minority on that. And since I actually have managed to pick up on most of the commonly-used references on your blog, it seems like it’s probably not as necessary as in some other online spaces. If *I* can get it, it has to be pretty easy to figure out, is what I guess I’m saying.

            1. On the outside looking in*

              I agree with your first paragraph. I hate it when I start reading a site and find people making those sort of references, with no way to find out what they mean. It makes me feel like the commenters are all a little clique of popular people, and I’m not welcome. It’s really alienating and unpleasant. The Captain Awkward guide was amazing when I discovered it! finally, a site that didn’t feel like it was trying to make me feel stupid because I hadn’t read every post ever made there.

              1. JB (not in Houston)*

                Yes, I found that Captain Awkward guide very helpful! I think some of those references are harder to pick up than some of the ones used here (like, I totally got that chocolate teapots and Wakeen were used as examples). But as the blog gets older, there will be–and already are–references that are not intuitive or obvious to the newer commenters.

  3. PEBCAK*

    I had a meeting with a bigwig the other day, and he wasn’t in his office when I got there, so I had a seat at the conference table in his office and waited for him, and he seemed really weirded out when he got there. Am I creepy?

    1. Not Today Satan*

      Do you work in the same office as him? I would have just emailed him saying I stopped by for our meeting, let me know when I should come back.

      1. PEBCAK*

        Yeah, I would do things differently next time, but I’m kinda hoping it’s the type of thing he forgot about ten minutes later and I’m the only one replaying it over and over as a huge mistake.

        1. Sunflower*

          I wouldn’t beat yourself up over this one. I don’t think it’s a huge deal and he probably already forgot about it. Probably just something he was a little confused about at the time but I doubt it’s a big edeal

    2. Sadsack*

      It probably depends. I think I would have gone away and come back in a minute, or waited outside his office. I think it really depends on the person. How well you know him, etc.

    3. kozinskey*

      I think it’s a little creepy to camp out in someone’s office when they’re not there. I could see that being normal in some offices, but it would be weird in mine. In the future, I’d probably leave the office & check with Bigwig’s assistant to see when he might return.

    4. Jwal*

      Mmm, if the table was in his office then I’d think that’s weird. I think I would’ve waited outside (if possible), or just popped back a minute or two later.

    5. AnotherAlison*

      That’s standard operating procedure for one of the bigwigs here. He’s someone who’s triple booked all the time, so even if you schedule a meeting with him, you have to wait for him to show up if you want to get your 5 minutes in. That’s apparently the way he likes to do things, though, so he’s not creeped out.

      1. Koko*

        Yeah, here it’s actually more common the higher-ranking the person is. If you have a meeting with a VP, you sit patiently in their office as long as it takes for them to arrive. If it’s a director, you might wait a couple of minutes. If it’s a manager or lower, you return immediately to your own office and IM/email them that you came by and please let you know when they’re back.

        I’ve never really thought about it until now, but I guess waiting in their office is showing deference because you aren’t calling attention to their lateness nor making them have to track you down and wait for you to return once they get back. You also probably know that they have back-to-back meetings so every extra minute you lose waiting for them to let you know they’re back and then for you to walk back to their office is a minute the meeting loses and won’t get back. Whereas with lower ranking colleagues, your own time and ability to get things down during their delay is more important and their time is more available anyway.

    6. TCO*

      In my workplace that would be a little weird, but it probably depends on the office. I tend to just check back in five minutes or so.

    7. JB (not in Houston)*

      I don’t know if creepy is the right word. But it might have made me discomfited. If I tell my secretary it’s a good time for her to come to my office for us to go over something , and I dash out to get coffee from the break room first, I’m not surprised to come back and find her in my office. If I come back to my office at just about any other time and find someone sitting in my office, I would be taken aback. I just wouldn’t expect it. And given that I have some nosy coworkers, I’d wonder if they’d have been looking over stuff on my desk, etc. And I would never go plop myself down in the office of a bigwig if they aren’t there, even if we are due for a meeting. It’s not creepy, it just doesn’t feel like something one does, though I can’t put my feeling on why.

      Maybe because it’s kind of a hierarchy thing, that you wouldn’t make yourself at home, essentially inviting yourself in, to the office of someone higher up that you? But I can imagine some offices where this would be just fine.

        1. JB (not in Houston)*

          Well, I may be missing a joke here, but that’s her official job title, so that’s the title I use for her.

          1. Lily in NYC*

            It’s considered a little outdated; most people prefer to be called an administrative assistant (I’m an executive assistant but honestly don’t care about my title as long as I’m getting paid well).

            1. JB (not in Houston)*

              I think maybe it depends on your profession. I’m the legal field, and I don’t know any lawyers who have admin assistants. They have secretaries or paralegals. I’m not saying no lawyers do, but I don’t know any.

              1. Sadsack*

                Ha I didn’t see your post before I posted. I can’t think of a profession besides law that have secretaries, either.

                1. JB (not in Houston)*

                  That’s funny, I was just about to say what Anoynousaurus Rex said–government was the other area I was thinking of that uses the secretary title.

                3. The Strand*

                  Even in higher ed the classification has generally changed to “administrative assistants” or “administrative coordinators”. A quick peek at Higheredjobs shows 106 positions when the title “secretary” is searched, and 3 times as many when “administrative assistant” is searched. Most “secretary” jobs are from Eastern Michigan, Harvard, Rutgers, John Hopkins, U-Utah. John Hopkins is a little weird in that they have administrative assistants, secretaries, and administrative coordinator postings!

                  My experience is that usually someone still called a “secretary” is someone who has been around for a very long time (and the HR title has not changed) or is being referred to by someone who has been around for a very long time (an ancient professor emeritus or the like).

              2. AnonymousaurusRex*

                When I worked in local government the appointed officials often had secretaries as well. This was a different position and “unclassified” as opposed to a classified civil service position of say, clerk-typist, which is like an administrative assistant position.

                1. JB (not in Houston)*

                  Yep, in the local and state governments I’ve worked with or known people who worked in, admin asst and secretary were different jobs with different classifications. You couldn’t swap one title for the other.

        2. Vancouver Reader*

          Where I work, we go by secretary or administrative assistant, or when they’re talking about the group of us, they call us girls. No one’s offended by it though, it’s just the terminology used in this company. This may one day change if by some chance we get a male admin assistant but I think for many years now, it’s never happened.

          1. The Strand*

            Isn’t it possible that because you’re all commonly known as “the girls” the likelihood of a male admin assistant being hired is very small? In other words, they could associate the job with your gender, and wouldn’t ordinarily consider a male in the role?

            I’ve worked in companies and institutions where there were male administrative assistants, and others where only women staffed those jobs. My experience is that whether people are offended by the term (“hey girls” isn’t too different from “hey guys”) if the language actually means the role is seen as an exclusively female one, it’s likely that the role is poorly paid, too.

            At a previous org, I watched two departments that do essentially the same thing for slightly different clientele.. One is a mixed gender group about 50-50 male female; the other is all female. The all female team is referred to as [Female Supervisor’s] girls. They’re not paid as well as the mixed gender group (the median salary is lower too), and there’s no career path out. A young, motivated woman in the “girls” group moved to the mixed gender group and bumped her pay up by several thousand.

    8. bridget*

      I usually stand out in the hall when this happens to me and wait for them there. Usually there is something for me to sit/lean on and read my notes or whatever, so I don’t look like I’m awkwardly waiting to pounce.

      Even though bigwigs often have conference space in their office, it’s not like a neutral conference room. It’s more like the living room in their house, where you could root around their personal stuff and work product. Even if doors are open and generally it’s no big deal to go into someone’s office while they aren’t there, it’s odd to feel like someone has spent real time in your office without you. It feels slightly boundary violating.

    9. my whole existence is flawed*

      We don’t have many offices that are set up that way at my work, but – was the door open? How long were you waiting?

      I think it could depend on a number of things, like the corporate culture, and just how the office furniture was arranged. Was there any kind of waiting area outside?

      All that said – I can see doing the same thing myself, especially if the door was open, there was no place to sit and wait, and it was more than just a few minutes wait. Maybe he was unhappy that he left his office open so you could walk in and take a seat? If so – that’s really on him.

      Sitting at his desk would be a definite no-no. But at his conference table? Especially if you had paperwork out, ready to begin the meeting?

      I guess you could have tried to disarm by rising as he came in and saying “the door was open; I figured you’d want me to get set up” or words to that effect.

      It’s possible he’s an irrational jerk and will have issues with it, even though the “fault” was his.

      1. JB (not in Houston)*

        I don’t know. Every place I’ve worked, the bigwigs left the doors open. That doesn’t mean it’s ok to go in and sit down if they weren’t in. In this case, PEBCAK had a meeting scheduled so it’s not the same as a random employee going in. I just mean that I don’t think you can say “it’s on him” that someone went in just because the door was open. Or I may be misunderstanding what you meant.

    10. Rock*

      At my previous worksite, that would have been 100% normal. But Big Wig at that place is nearly impossible to pin down, so if you had a meeting with him you had to camp to make sure you kept it. And then sometimes it would be a “meeting while Big Wig preps for another meeting” and that’s just what you got.
      People hanging out in his office while he wasn’t there was par for the course; he was always having to run somewhere or another.

      1. BenAdminGeek*

        Agreed- the culture dictates here. I used to wait for my boss all the time, so would amuse myself by adding items to his To Do list on the whiteboard. He found it less amusing than I did.

    11. Anonsie*

      I think this is one of those things that varies entirely by office and the person themselves, so I guess your answer is “apparently yes, this time, but you didn’t do anything crazy in general.”

    12. Bigwigs*

      I don’t think you’re creepy. In fact, if I was said bigwig, I probably would’ve thanked you & apologized for making you wait. But that’s me… who, at the moment, is very much *not* a bigwig, so YMMV.

    13. gsa*

      Did you let yourself in? Or did you have to go through his secretary? I prefer “handler”. Was there a place outside his palatial office to wait?

      Pacing around waiting for anyone has always annoyed me to (think mad lib answer here).

  4. Anna*

    I recently joined a new team at work. My new team leader is very helpful, very personable, and quite attractive. I think I’m starting to like him more than is appropriate. Really need to keep my head in the right place and stay out of that minefield.

    1. AnonEMoose*

      That is a tough place to be in. Something I have found helpful in the past is to not try to totally ignore/deny the thoughts and emotions when they occur. I’ve found that for me it works better to sort of acknowledge and move on.

      So instead of “nope, can’t think about that, don’t even go there,” something more like “Yeah, he’s cute. Now about that TPS report…”. Kind of a self-redirect, if that makes sense. Keeping conversations with him to 95% work stuff might also help.

      Basically, I think that making the feelings of attraction “taboo” in your head, they perversely become even more compelling, because they’ve acquired the allure of forbidden fruit. If you can instead acknowledge it to yourself and then distract yourself with something else, you might be able to avoid that, and eventually it will fade on its own.

      1. Kairi*

        +1 I’ve been in that position before and sometimes would think about it briefly, then refocus on work again. About a month later I stopped thinking about it altogether.

      2. Sans*

        I agree. I let myself feel the “crush” and then moved on and made very sure my actions never betrayed my feelings.

        1. Mallory Janis Ian*

          Same here. I get crushes pretty easily, so I’ve had a lot of work crushes. I don’t think my behavior has ever betrayed anything, though; I just enjoy the crush quietly to myself until it’s run its course.

    2. Sunflower*

      Remind yourself that the reason you like him is because he’s new and you don’t know much about him. Every time you start thinking about him, remind yourself in a few months you’ll have found out a few things about him that drive you nuts.

    4. Longtime Reader anon for this*

      This is a similar comment I had last week! I have a huge crush on a co-worker, who I work very closely with evey.single.day. We’re both married, 40’s. It’s been killing me actually but hoping the feelings go away and very soon! The commenters said it’s normal to have work crushes. I guess we’re all human..

  5. ACA*

    So I gave notice on Monday! My boss was initially super pissy about it because it’s not technically a full two weeks (it’s nine business days), but my manager was like “What’s she supposed to do, not go on vacation?” And that calmed him down a bit. Everyone else in my office is supportive, and since it’s an internal transfer it’s not like they won’t see me again.

    Yesterday I emailed all the people in the other departments I work with to let them know I’ll be leaving, and got a flurry of emails and phone calls congratulating me…and also a few (jokingly) telling me that I’m not allowed to leave because then they’ll have to deal with my boss directly. I also emailed the people I know in the department I’m transferring to, and they’re all looking forward to working with me in a new capacity. So that was all really encouraging – in a job where I’ve gotten little support, it’s nice to know that people think I’m actually good at what I do and maybe that I’m even a valuable employee.

  6. Finding Nemo*

    Does anyone else ever feel uncomfortable or self-conscious taking credit for their own work?

    It’s like some form of imposter syndrome I guess, like if I’m complimented on a project I feel the need to downplay my role and talk about how much help I had from all the other people involved. So far I’ve been lucky enough that the people I work with will acknowledge the work I put in, but I can easily imagine being taken advantage of. How do I get over this?

    1. Jwal*

      “Thank you *smiles*”
      Repeat as required.

      I’m really bad at taking compliments, and I’m working at trying to get better at it. One thing I read was that by saying ‘thank you’ you’re not agreeing with the person necessarily, but acknowledging what they say. Thinking about thanks like that rather than like “you’re right, I am awesome” has been helpful for me.

      Hope this helps!

    2. Lisa*

      Yes. All the time. There are studies that say women do this more often than men, but I think it has more to do with upbringing and how bragging can be seen as bad or in poor taste. But it isn’t bragging.

      Mindy Kaling has a new book out and this is an excerpt:
      http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/08/mindy-kaling-is-confident-okay.html

      “Confidence is just entitlement. Entitlement has gotten a bad rap because it’s used almost exclusively for the useless children of the rich, reality TV stars, and Conrad Hilton Jr., who gets kicked off an airplane for smoking pot in the lavatory and calling people peasants or whatever. But entitlement in and of itself isn’t so bad. Entitlement is simply the belief that you deserve something. Which is great. “

      2. Cordelia Naismith*

        Yes, true. Entitlement isn’t a problem, but feelings of undeserved entitlement are. It’s hard sometimes to remember these are two different things! It’s okay to feel entitled to something you do actually deserve (like thanks for a job well done when you did work hard and do a good job).

    3. Christy*

      I ask myself how a 30-year-old man would handle it. My best male friend is kind of full of himself, so I just pretend that I’m him. It definitely makes me take credit for my work.

      1. Kelly L.*

        Oh, this is really helpful to me. I have a supremely arrogant friend that I could use for this exercise. :D

      2. Dawn*

        Yeah thinking this way has helped a TON with imposter syndrome for me. If I start getting anxious or worked up I ask myself “If I was a man would I feel this way?” and usually the answer is no, or “Not exactly, I’d probably be thinking about XYZ instead”. Helps a lot.

        Sucks to infinity and beyond that I have to think like that, but it helps.

    4. LBK*

      Practice saying “thanks!” or “you’re welcome!” as a complete sentence. It will feel really awkward at first (“you’re welcome” in particular can be oddly uncomfortable to say in response to someone thanking you for your work) but if you force yourself to just say those words and then shut up, it will cut back on your tendency to want to elaborate and sell yourself short.

      2. Koko*

        In my case, I’m a naturally warm person and it feels sort of cold and conversation-killing to me in some contexts to just say “thanks” and stop. So I often will add on a sort of positive attitude type of statement about how I enjoyed the work, or feel proud of it, or feel good knowing others will benefit from my work.

        “Thanks! I loved getting a chance to step back and take a look at the bigger picture with this project since I ordinarily spend so much of my time working on the details.”
        “Thanks! I’m really proud of the final product.”
        “Thanks! I hope this resource is going to make everyone’s lives a little easier.”

        It lets me lend a little warmth to my response without downplaying my efforts or selling myself short.

        This works for me mostly because it’s consistent with my professional image: maintaining a positive ethic and leveraging informal professional relationships are my signature dishes, and I’m respected for my ability to get results from difficult-to-work-with people and people outside our immediate team because just about everyone owes me a favor or two.

      3. BenAdminGeek*

        I sometimes say “I live to serve” – but I also struggle with self-deprecating humor so maybe I’m a terrible example.

    5. Turanga Leela*

      Think about it this way: you are an asset to your company. It benefits your company to have you be awesome and impressive. Hopefully your boss is seeing the great work you do; if not, talk about it in meetings or performance reviews. “This week I finished the ABC report and sent it around for comments. So far I’ve gotten very positive feedback from the team.” Then later: “I heard back from Client Z, and she was delighted with the ABC report we sent her last month.” Your boss needs to know about your contributions in order to be a good manager.

      As far as responding to compliments, practice just saying, “Thanks!”

    6. AndersonDarling*

      I have a hard time if it was something super easy and management thinks it took me days to put together when it really took 10 minutes.
      On big things, I try to share the complement by mentioning anyone who was part of the project, even the receptionist who carried back lunch once.

    7. my whole existence is flawed*

      If it was something that was truly all my work, I’ll just say “thank you.”

      If it was something where I was team lead and a number of people contributed, I’ll say “thank you – it was a team effort” and (depending on circumstances) possibly go on about who is on my team.

      (You can tell me this is a bad practice, but so far it has always worked out well to promote my team. When rewards and other good things happen to my team, there tends to be good stuff for me, too).

      1. Long Time Reader First Time Poster*

        I think it’s good practice to recognize your team — if it was a team effort. I usually say something like “Thanks! I had a lot of support on this project from Arya and Sansa, I’ll let them know you were happy with the final outcome.”

      2. QualityControlFreak*

        Yup, me too. One of my teams is quick to point out that I did the lion’s share of the work. I just say, “that may be true, but I couldn’t have done it without your support.”

    8. Daisy Steiner*

      My fall-back in these situations is “Oh, that’s very kind!” because it doesn’t strictly contradict my internal voice, which is saying “But it’s not true!”. I try to use it to graciously accept personal compliments as well as professional ones.

      1. Aunt Vixen*

        I say “You’re very kind” or “It’s nice of you to say so” when the compliment is about something I can’t change (when someone tells me I have a lovely voice, for example) and “I was glad to help” or similar when the compliment was about something I did.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          “Glad to hear that you are happy with X.”

          “Oh, it’s always nice to hear that people found my (our) efforts helpful/beneficial.”

    9. Credit*

      Yes and no. If I have help, I go out of my way to credit those who helped. As far as things I’ve accomplished on my own… I really appreciate kudos and understand the importance of them when trying to advance in an organization, but I think I need to work on this some more, if I’m being honest with myself.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I think it’s important to give credit where credit is due, especially in places where morale is low.

    10. Monodon monoceros*

      Yes, all the time. The worst is when I’m rapporteur for a meeting and they praise something I’ve done…I can’t bring myself to write it in the report. Usually I’ll leave it out and then somewhere in the draft revisions someone will add in “The group commended Monodon monoceros on the forage fish project.” But it’s too weird for me to write it myself!

    11. Chalupa Batman*

      I am SO uncomfortable with public praise. My last boss was a big promoter of our work, so that helped-not because it changed my comfort level, but because it showed me how necessary a little horn tooting is to getting ahead. I was flying completely under the radar and wondering why I kept getting dumped on, but when my boss started singing my praises for my work on high profile projects, I suddenly started getting taken seriously and invited to work on projects I wanted. I’m a big fan of Koko’s suggested phrases to acknowledge without downplaying, things like “thank you, it was a big effort, but I’m really happy with the result.” Accept the compliment, state a fact, and move on. Remember that taking credit where it’s due is not the same in the workplace as it is in social situations. It’s not any more immodest for you to accept a compliment than it is for you to accept your paycheck.

    12. LQ*

      I like, “I enjoyed working on the project.” (assuming I did) or “It was a really engaging project.” or something along those lines. They make me feel more comfortable talking about it.

    14. Brett*

      I’ve found a good way to deal with this is not just to say “Thank you” but follow up with “Feel free to ask me if you have any questions about the project.” (Or if it seems like they have immediate interest in the project, “Thank you. Did you have any questions about it?”)

      This sometimes will open up a small dialogue about the project, and it is always easy to feel at ease about your recognition when you are talking about what you did to earn it. Even if they have no questions then or later, asking for questions shows that you have enthusiasm about your work and are happy that other people recognize your success.

    15. NDQ*

      Previous boss took sole credit for everyone else’s work. I may go overboard now with giving staff credit due. But yeah, sometimes you have to force yourself to say “thank you ” and stop talking.

      NDQ

  7. Nervous Accountant*

    They fired two people at my job this week. They assured us it wasn’t a mass layoff like in previous years but their firings were for performance issues.

    I don’t know the details at all except what upper management told us but I (think) I got along well with the one who was demoted… I worked with other one directly a few times and never had an issue with his work…but I’ve been a lot of the staff talk crap about him since day 1…

    It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth because as crazy as it sounds, both of these ppl were also not part of this “clique” at work which makes me wonder if that had even a tiny little bit to do with it. It scares me because…I’m not either.

    I was written up over 2 months ago for performance issues but I *think* I’ve improved since then. Nothing of that nature has happened in the last few months and neither my boss/supervisor/manager (the hierarchy is a little muddled here) have pointed anything out to me so I’m really not sure if it’s because I’m doing better or they don’t want to, so Im wondering if I have a false sense of security here.

      1. The Cosmic Avenger*

        Me too. The sirens started really started going off for me at “the hierarchy is a little muddled here”.

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          How so?

          (not being facetious…..this is my first time in a medium sized company as a FT employee so Im still not sure how everything really works….just started my 9th month)

          1. The Cosmic Avenger*

            I’ll bet we could find dozens of letters that Alison has responded to that are about unclear hierarchy. Usually it’s because different managers are giving differing directions to the same employee — sometimes it’s inadvertent and disorganized, but sometimes it’s part of a fully intentional power struggle. And not knowing who to ask when there’s an issue that’s above your pay grade is a recipe for disaster. One of the best things about my project director is that he acts as a buffer between us and the client when we need it. And what would you do if your boss was out, or acting irrationally? If you don’t know who is above them, you can’t escalate problems when necessary. Now, that’s hardly ever necessary, but when it is, that means it’s already really bad.

            1. Nervous Accountant*

              Ohhh okay I see. Okay maybe I misused the term here then, I can describe it a little and you guys weigh in?

              So there’s the person I refer to as my boss, she’s the VP of operations and oversees our department. She’s in charge of hiring/firing for our department and a step below upper management (the CEO, CFO, Controller, VP of etc etc). It’s an open plan so she works alongside us and we’re welcome to ask her questions about the company policies or work related or client issues.

              We’re broken up into zones or teams and I have a team leader that I refer to as my manager or supervisor…I can address all of the above issues as well and he also assigns tasks too. The reason I said it’s muddled is because the previous team leader went on maternity leave and resigned, he was “assistant” leader…as far as I can tell, there hasn’t been any formal promotion of his duties, but he’s the direct person people report to on our team.

              Finally, each team is broken up into smaller teams that include a “project manager” (my term here–hope it’s being used correctly) and 2 support staff; I’m a support staff.. If I have any questions/issues with my workload or assignments or clients or the work itself, I have to bring it to his attention….however, my PM was the one who had to provide feedback on our performance evaluations and oversees majority of my work.

          2. some1*

            I can’t speak for Cosmic Avenger, but when you basically report to more than one person, it’s hard to know if you are getting all the feedback you need.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I thought of that, but performance evaluations are coming up next week so I wanted to wait until my meeting to possibly bring it up. I’m not sure exactly when I’ll have my meeting, but is it appropriate to bring up before it?

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Nah, if they’re next week it’ll seem weird that you’re not just waiting until then, since it’s clearly going to be covered then. Your instincts are right to wait, given that.

          1. Nervous Accountant*

            The evaluations covered from July 1 to June 30th, so is it still appropriate to bring up stuff from last month? Also, the date was tentative, if they’re pushed back for any reason, how long is enough to wait to be proactive about this?

            1. BenAdminGeek*

              In my experience as a manager, I review the time period of the evaluation and then talk about changes since then- good and bad. So I would assume July/August will come up naturally, but if not it’s fine to mention.

    3. LBK*

      Ask for feedback! Having a concrete starting point like a past write-up actually makes that conversation easier, since you can say “I feel like I’ve improved on this since our last conversation by doing x, y and z but I wanted to get your perspective.”

    4. Katie the Fed*

      If you’ve been written up twice – I’d ask your boss for a sit-down to discuss how he feels about your progress. Be proactive about it.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I’ve only been written up once (and last/only time hopefully!!!!!!!!!!!!!!),. The workload has also been a lot more easier and manageable since no immediate deadlines are approaching..

        2. Long Time Reader First Time Poster*

          If you’ve been written up, even once, and there are other firings… I’d take that as a big sign for concern. Lots of places I’ve worked have made the decision to thin the ranks, with step one being negative writeups. Then a few months later the axe falls. The writeup is a CYA effort on the part of the company so that they have documentation of cause for the firings.

    5. Sunflower*

      I haven’t caught the open thread a whole lot this summer but I have been keeping up with you a bit. Just hoping for a positive performance review for you and, either way, hoping things get better! I’m not sure if you are job searching but I’m always in the camp to trust you gut and if things are looking iffy at your job, it can’t hurt to polish your resume just in case

    6. Biff*

      My work has a growing clique issue that management seems to be actively encouraging. :/ I, too, have been written up, and while my own manager seems to think the write up is bunk, their manager told her that they have someone already chosen to replace me, should I fail to improve.

      I’m trying to hold on long enough to save money for retraining, but if it weren’t for that, I’d be looking for new jobs like a hungry lion looks for gazelles. I strongly suggest you document your improvement by saving emails and jotting down any atta-boy comments from your boss or coworkers, in case you get the axe. This will help you prove wrongful termination or at least get unemployment.

  8. Ops Analyst*

    Looking for input and advice from trainers and those who handle process improvements.

    I’m 4 months in at a new job, which was somewhat of a career change for me. My background is in arts administration, program development, and technical training and enablement for nonprofit institutions like museums, .orgs and universities, with a bit of corporate admin/training work mixed in. I also have a number of certifications in training and development.

    Now I’m working in sales operations for a global software company. I was brought in specifically because my background gave me a unique perspective on training in a corporate environment. They are looking for a fresh approach to their enablement initiatives for another department that operations over sees.

    I’ve just been given my first big project. It’s huge actually. I’ll be looking at process efficiencies and enablement gaps within the department (which has thousands of employees) and developing solutions to improve them, either through training, documentation, or changes to the processes themselves.

    Results need to be measurable, so I guess this is where my question comes in. How do I start off measuring the current state of things and then how do I evaluate the changes? I have an understanding of how to do this on a much smaller scale. I have just never done anything this big before or in a corporate environment. So I am looking for advice on best practices to keep in mind and perhaps some tools and references I can turn to. What first steps should I take in order to ensure measurable outcomes? Also would love advice from people who handle process improvements within their organization.

    There is an education department that is more like the typical corporate training structure with instructional designers, developers, and trainers. This is separate from what I am doing. There is a bit of overlap, but they don’t really handle much for the department I am covering. So I am the only one who is doing this, which basically means I have to spearhead the entire project and pretty much do all the work myself, though I will be gathering information from SMEs.

    They are looking for “lots of small wins” and I want to set myself up for achieving that. I would be grateful for any advice, as well as encouragement, because this project is giving me a bit of imposter syndrome, even though I know I’m capable of doing this and doing it well.

    1. Colleen*

      Ops Analyst: Create current state maps and future state maps which identify areas of backlog and non-value added work. Google them and you will find ways to make it work. These are the most basic tools in Lean manufacturing and there is probably more out there for you to work with, but this will get you started.

      1. Ops Analyst*

        This is great. I had a similar idea to this but didn’t have a name for it, nor was it as fleshed out as this process. Super helpful. Thanks!

          1. BenAdminGeek*

            Agreed- people often go overboard with Six Sigma, but it sounds like there’s a lot of opportunity for you here. Do fishbones, ask 5 why’s, remove NVA – it’ll be fun!

    2. LBK*

      Glad to hear you’re working with SMEs – that was going to be my main suggestion. I think they’ll actually be able to give you a lot of what you’re looking for, particularly around measurable metrics, because they’ll understand what’s important to their departments and the best way to gauge that. In the early stages of the product, I’d just be a sponge – absorb as much information and feedback as you can from the people in each department. I suspect your process will evolve organically from there once you have a better grasp on the needs and metrics of each department from an internal perspective because the ways to address those needs (better training, improved systems, increased staffing, etc) will become apparent once they’re identified.

    3. AndersonDarling*

      Process Mapping would be a good place to start, and I’d use the two step method. 1st sit down with the manager and ask what their process is for the TPS reports. 2nd have a meeting with the team and ask what the real process is. This always finds redundancies and gaps. Then you can go back to the manager and work out what the real process should be, and create training for it.

      1. Ops Analyst*

        Haha. This made me chuckle, but so true. Part of my challenge here is that the team are sales people in the field. I won’t be able to sit down and have a meeting with them. I could potentially schedule a call but finding time for that with them is extraordinarily difficult. However, a survey would probably work. I could probably send that out to the whole org and get feedback. Though, I’m not sure how I would learn what they think the real process is in that way.

        1. Meg Murry*

          Ask if you can shadow them like a trainee, or talk to a newly trained person. Get a copy of whatever the current official documentation is now (if such a thing exists) and then have someone walk you through how it actually happens.

          Also, you can just ask “what takes way too long and annoys you” or “what is repetitive and annoying”? Maybe it’s something like “we have to type our sales data into the master database, which is fine at HQ but super slow when I have to do it over VPN” and there might be a better way to get that data to them. Or “we still have to hand write these forms instead of typing” or “every time I make a new order with the same customer I have to fill in the address and customer name again, even if I just did it yesterday”

      2. Meg Murry*

        Another thing/place to measure might be how many hands does it have to pass through. For instance, in order to complete the TPS reports, is actually the admins who make them, but only the bosses who have logins to the system to pull the data out? Or do they have to contact IT or Accounting every month to get the sales numbers when maybe there can either be a custom query written for that or they could be given read only access to a section of a database to pull the data themselves?

        Regarding measureable and “lots of small wins” I would think looking at number of days or number of man hours it takes to complete a task now, and then after your changes go into effect could be a big one. If you can take the time it takes to produce a TPS report from 4 hours to 3, or 4 days to 3, that might not seem like a big deal – but if the company produces thousands of TPS reports a month, those savings can add up. Or with Process Mapping, if you can take something down from 17 steps to 14, that’s 3 less places where a mistake can be made and shortens the overall process. Spaghetti diagrams are also a good way to go in this (link to follow but will be caught in moderation, so just google it).

        Same thing with errors. Is there a way to track how many times a report goes through with no errors, or not required to be bounced back to the originator? I worked at a place that tracked stats on that, and once they really started honing in on it, it became clear that having things bounced back and forth really slowed things down, but getting something through correctly the first time might take a little longer in the short run, but saved a ton of time in the long run on the corrections.

    4. E*

      Read a book on change management by John Kotter, or Google his method. Lots of info about “small wins” and the steps toward making changes.

  9. Sunflower*

    I was at a networking event last night and realized I’m really good at getting people to warm up to me/out of their shell. I feel like there are a lot of good jobs out there for people who can make and build connections and relationships and naturally my first thought went to sales. I’m really good at talking to people and getting them to trust me but the part where I’d actually have to sell things freaks me out. I’m not a very pushy person and while I’m a good negotiating, I don’t like pushing people onto things and it feels so awkward to me. How much of sales is doing the uncomfortable pushing and how much is just getting people to like you? Are there jobs where you can make good money by just doing client relationship management? I have a few friends in medical device sales who seem to enjoy it?

    1. HigherEd Admin*

      There are lots of jobs that are about building relationships that have nothing to do with sales. I work in a university, so that’s where my mind goes — but others can chime in with more suggestions:

      — Campus recruiting (on the corporate side) or employer relations (on the college side)
      — Alumni relations
      — Fundraising (admittedly fundraising can be about sales/money, but a lot of it is just relationship building)
      — Volunteer management
      — Certain aspects of HR that involve training or assisting companies with mergers/team-building/etc.

    2. Turanga Leela*

      I know nothing about sales, but it is hard to find good development/fundraising people, and this is a big part of the skill set for that job. I’d really consider development.

    3. CJ*

      Our salespeople are taught on a Sandler method, which revolved around building rapport, finding the customer’s points of pain and finding solutions together. It is specifically designed to “pull” the customer through rather than “push” them. I’m on the Marketing team and helped developed a scoresheet for a role-playing compeititon we have going on: points get deducted for being a pushy salesperson. :) Not all of the roles are like that. HigherEd Admin has some great options as well.

      1. Ife*

        I get the distinction you’re making, but this sounds like the same thing in different words. Sure, in the “pull” version, the customer probably feels better about the transaction, but aren’t they still ending up buying something they didn’t want? I guess it depends on how hard the salesperson has to “pull.” :)

        1. CJ*

          It depends on the salesperson. Part of the Sandler process is ensuring that we have a solution for the customer (Qualification). We have a daily morning huddle with Sales and at least once a week, they will say they had a phone conversation with a prospect that ended without a quote because the customer was needing another type of product, we didn’t have something for the customer, our product was too much for the customer (i.e. they only needed a manual brush, not a hydraulic system), etc. So I think in our case, it is truly making sure the customer has a pain and a need and finding them solutions for that.

          Of course, the Qualification step has the other benefit of vetting the customer to make sure they are even in the right industry and truly need some of our products so that our salespeople save time.

    4. the gold digger*

      I don’t like pushing people onto things

      Good salespeople do not push people onto things. They help customers solve problems. There is nothing wrong with saying to a prospect, “I don’t think we can help you.”

      2. Addiez*

        However, a lot of that will depend on the culture of the org. There are plenty of sales/fundraising jobs where relationships are prioritized, but also plenty that want you to SELL SELL SELL to hit your goals regardless of relationships. I think sales and/or fundraising could be great, just be conscious of this.

    5. Ama*

      Any kind of stewardship/donor relations position in the nonprofit or university sector — that is all about connecting with donors and potential donors and making them feel valued. It won’t be as high a salary as a private sector job (particularly not to start), but those are extremely valuable positions, and a good stewardship director can make a nice amount of money.

    6. Career Counselorette*

      I don’t know how good the money is, necessarily, but I think there are a lot of non-profit jobs where this kind of skill would be highly appreciated, like doing intakes, tracking participant activity, etc.

      1. Meg Murry*

        Yes, account management is usually under sales, but it’s more a case of “this person is already our customer and buys stuff from us, how can I help them make the buying process smoother, or make sure they get what they really want” and less “get people to buy more more more stuff from us!”

        Or what about a recruiting role in HR? Or some other type of customer support role?

    8. GOG11*

      I used to get freaked out by the prospect of selling things, but then I realized that there are people who sell things to sell things/make money (which is what I thought everyone did), and then there are people who are knowledgeable about a range of products or services and who build relationships with clients to get to know their needs. They then seek to bridge the gap between “client wants something that does X, costs Y and comes in blue” and “service that does X, costs Y and comes in blue.”

      I know you specifically asked about positions that don’t involve sales/just involve client relationship management, but I wanted to throw that out there because it really changed the way I felt about and viewed sales, and I think some places/roles/cultures can support or encourage the meeting of clients’ needs in a genuine way, even though meeting those needs involves the client buying something from you. I don’t know how the bridge-the-gap technique plays out on a large scale/long-term as I only worked retail, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.

      1. GOG11*

        Re: “Service that…comes in blue” – This example brought to you by Blue Man Group/my half-dead-Friday brain.

        1. JB (not in Houston)*

          I am so glad I am not the only person with Friday brain today. And I enjoyed your Friday brain manifestation.

    9. AFT123*

      I’m in sales and account management. Honestly, I think a lot of sales environments will “beat” this great quality out of you. Those skills can go a long way in many positions, but I would personally suggest staying away from a hard quota positions. Of course, your mileage may vary, but if you want to try and pursue sales I’d probably recommend a small business outside sales position. A good place to start are payroll companies like ADP – good learning, get your feet wet, can advance within the company quickly if you want, and will expose you to many other business options to consider for future career steps.

    11. Lily in NYC*

      I have a similar personality and probably should have gone into sales, but I didn’t because I thought it would be all cold calling and being pushy. But I think a lot of account reps don’t do that – they manage the existing relationships. But don’t forget about things like selling real estate -every aptitude test I’ve taken said I should do sales or be a psychologist. So that’s another thought if you are interested in going back to school. But I don’t think all types of counselors need a grad degree (i.e. marriage counseling). If I could do it all over again I’d get a degree in forensic/industrial psychology.

      1. Sunflower*

        A lot of my aptitude tests also said counselor/psychologist! Right after college, I was determined to get my masters in counseling until I looked at the tuition and figured I should hold off to see if that’s what I really want. I’m hoping that maybe one day when I’m more financially secure or married, I can go back to school but for now, corporate world it is.

    12. College Career Counselor*

      It sounds to me as if you are the kind of person who has to believe in what they are selling or promoting in order to be effective. Is there a field of interest, a cause or issue or product that you personally believe in, care about or use? Consider whether getting involved with supporting that might make the “sales” aspect more palatable for you.

      Along those lines, Development/Fundraising comes to mind, although you still need to be able to make the “ask” (ie, close the sale) to be effective. I am reasonably good at talking to people and getting them comfortable, but I absolutely hate making the ask, so I am with you on the selling aspect. Perhaps community relations for an organization or a company that’s looking to increase its impact/improve its image in the larger community?

    13. Koko*

      Sales is only pushy when you don’t really believe in the product. That would be my chief advice to you: sell something that you’re genuinely interested in and that you genuinely believe makes people’s lives better.

      As a salesperson, your job isn’t to sell something to a customer. It’s to find the right product for that person’s needs. If you sell cars you’ll listen to things like how much of a concern gas mileage, how often they need cargo space, how many kids they drive around on a regular basis. If it’s blenders you find out if they need ice-crushing for margaritas or food-processing ability for veggie smoothies or if they want a stick blender that can go right into their crock pot to make bone broth.

      When people buy something that makes their lives better and that they feel good about buying, they become repeat customers. And they remember the salesperson who helped them make the right choice. The best salespeople don’t hoodwink or pressure anyone into anything. They listen to the customer’s needs and then use their uniquely human ability to synthesize those needs against their own knowledge of the products available and recommend a product that the customer is going to be eager and happy to buy, and is going to continue to feel good about buying for months after the sale.

      If you don’t really, truly think the product you’re selling is good for anyone, you have nothing left but high-pressure slimy tactics. It’s unfortunate that this outcome is what most people think sales is.

      About other relationship jobs: Yes! Most large agencies that have clients have relationship managers. There is some sales involved, but even more than with regular sales it’s really more about the repeat sales – you’ll likely inherit a lot of clients when you first start and many leads that come in via the website or other channels will be given to you to follow up on. Your job once someone has signed on is to keep the client happy enough that they renew their contract. A lot of this boils down to shielding the engineer-types from the clients and vice versa, so the engineers don’t get annoyed with the clients for making stupid requests and the clients don’t feel confused or bored to death by the technical details of what the engineers are doing. You play liaison or go-between.

      1. GH in SoCAl*

        “The best salespeople don’t hoodwink or pressure anyone into anything. They listen to the customer’s needs and then use their uniquely human ability to synthesize those needs against their own knowledge of the products available and recommend a product that the customer is going to be eager and happy to buy, and is going to continue to feel good about buying for months after the sale.”

        +1000 from someone who still feels good about paying over retail for getting the right entertainment system from a professional installer.

    14. PhoenixBurn*

      Customer service roles? I’m in the moving & storage industry, and we have customer service people who partner with our clients throughout the move process. The sales people actually go to the home and close the sale, then the customer service rep carries the family through the move itself. They develop the relationship with the people, help allay nerves/fears, and generally just advocate for the customer so that the business never forgets that while we move thousands of people a year, the average person only moves once every 7 years or so. It takes a lot of the skills that you’ve described above to help people through that.

    15. INFJ*

      Successful salesmanship isn’t about being pushy.

      It’s about being able to read people and knowing your product. You have to know what questions to ask to find out what their needs are and identify possible concerns they may have.

      Being able to get people to open up certainly helps.

  10. Anie*

    Here’s the update on the new guy at my work.

    (Recap: His first day, he made a comment about me having a big rack and responded to directions by saying, “yessa masser.”)

    Well, he’s still there. Sigh. We ended up having to fire a different new hire last week, after I posted.
    She’s been with the company about a month and a half. I’d only worked with her one-on-one once and immediately told my boss, “She isn’t going to work out.” She was horrible but in different ways from the new guy.

    What led to the firing was she was a no-call no-show for 2 days. When we finally got a hold of her, she explained her car had failed inspection. While Massachusetts lets you drive on a red sticker/failed sticker for 30 days to give you time to fix the issue (so I hear—I don’t own a car), she decided she didn’t want to risk it. Instead of using public transportation or carpooling, she wanted the next three weeks off until she got around to fixing her car.

    She told this to my boss, who’s car broke down 2 months ago. My boss, who lives twice as far, who’s been carpooling with family and friends, and who hasn’t had time to buy a car because she’s also taking care of her sister’s newborn while her sister stays hospitalized after the difficult birth. My boss, who sometimes can’t get a ride until 4 hours after her shift, just takes the train to the hospital to visit her sister and wait until a family member drops by that can drive her.

    Fortunately, my boss was approved to take a week off this past week, mostly to deal with the new baby, hopefully get a car, and oh yeah, her grandma died Monday. She’ll deal with the new guy when she returns this coming Monday.
    In the mean time, he said to me, “Oh, I’ve got some funny jokes for you, but I’m not sure I should tell you.”

    Me: “Don’t.”

    He told someone else, who came right to me about them. They were…wow. Think of the meanest, sexist thing a person can think. That’s his jokes.

    1. ACA*

      Ugggh, I am so sorry you still have to deal with that dirtbag. Hopefully his days at work are numbered (and hopefully that number is 1).

    2. Ad Astra*

      How are these new hires passing the screening process at your company? Are these positions difficult to fill? You’ve got some doozies.

      “My car broke down” isn’t typically an acceptable reason to miss work, but if I was going to stay home for that, I’d at least call someone and let them know. Jeez.

      It sounds like your boss deserves a day off. Someone buy that lady a drink.

      1. Anie*

        See, I think the hiring manager may be doing it to our department on purpose. I doubt anyone remembers, but last year we had a huge mess at work where one girl in our department decided she knew better than everyone else after a month. Serious attitude problem and every five minutes she wandered off to complain to her boyfriend or dad (both in different departments–can you guess how she got the job?).

        But for some reason our hiring manager got rabid about protecting her without ever discussing the issues with myself or the girls’ manager. The hiring manager got pretty intense with the bad-mouthing until her boss stepped in. But there’s still some long-last bad feelings….

        2. AdAgencyChick*

          So your boss doesn’t get to hire people that report to her? No wonder things are messed up?

        3. brightstar*

          It sounds as though it is getting to the point where, if the hiring manager is doing this on purpose, it’s setting the company up for legal liability and needs to be addressed.

          Also, why isn’t your boss allowed to hire the persons who will be working in her department?

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Have you reported the comments? There’s some legal liability for the company to having a sexist asshole running around making harassing comments.

      1. Anie*

        My boss knows and she did bring it up the ladder, at least as far as in-building management goes. The most recent poor jokes I haven’t said anything both because my boss has been out and also because he didn’t say anything directly to me. The person who brought it up to me wasn’t complaining, technically. He was a younger guy more shocked and amused by the jokes…

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          The “big rack” thing really should be an official complaint to HR. I can’t believe they wouldn’t do something about that, at least if you’re in the U.S. Also, mention something to his boss, if you haven’t already.

    4. anonanonanon*

      While Massachusetts lets you drive on a red sticker/failed sticker for 30 days to give you time to fix the issue (so I hear—I don’t own a car), she decided she didn’t want to risk it.

      I believe it’s actually 60 days, but if the car failed the safety inspection then you’re immediately banned from driving. I haven’t owned a car for a long time, so it might have changed.

      1. Anie*

        Interesting! I wasn’t privy to what exactly failed, so perhaps it was a legitimate safety issue.

    5. Paige Turner*

      UGH, I hope he gets tossed out as soon as your boss has time. It sucks that he’s still there, but I can see that your boss has way more important things going on. Sorry to hear about boss’s grandmother and hope her sister gets better soon. New guy has it coming for sure! As for other new person, jeez. This isn’t what you asked, but maybe whoever is hiring for these positions needs to try a different approach.

      1. Ama*

        Yeah, that was my take away, too. If employees are able to tell immediately that a new hire is a problem, but they are getting hired anyway, something’s terrible wrong with the hiring process.

    8. Anonsie*

      Nooo I’m so disappointed that chucklehead didn’t get dumped out immediately. Are they just waiting until boss is back on Monday?

      1. Anie*

        I think it’s a mixture? Wait until boss is back–and wait for more examples of lack of judgment.

  11. Random CPA*

    I’m on maternity leave, and I want to ask my boss to go back to work on a reduced schedule for six months after I return. Is this something it would be okay to ask by email, or should I go in to talk to him? If I go in to talk to him, I’d have to bring the baby and that seems less professional than sending and email.

      2. Random CPA*

        I’m just worried if I do that, he’s going to think I’m having him call me so I can tell him I’m not coming back. I like what someone else suggested which is to outline my proposal and then have him call me to discuss.

    2. Mockingjay*

      Write a detailed document outlining your case and email it as an attachment. In the email, request a phone conference to discuss it. That will give your boss time to read over your proposal and to think about it.

      Are there company/HR policies about reduced work schedule that you will have to comply with? Does it affect benefits? Do your homework and prepare a good business case.

      And congratulations on your baby!

    4. BananaPants*

      I’ll differ from others on this – I would probably try to go in to meet with him, or at least email a clear proposal and offer to come meet with him to discuss it further. Have others in your workplace been successful in negotiating a reduced schedule for that length of time before?

      FWIW, I went to the office at around the 6-7 week mark to chat with my boss about my return to work because I wanted to work half days for the first two weeks. I brought the baby with me and she napped in her car seat bucket in his office the entire time, and it was totally fine. (I was only able to get my manager to agree to one week of half days, even using my vacation time.)

      1. Jesse*

        When my one coworker came in with her baby to resign during her maternity leave, she was so stressed out about it, the baby was, too — and cried the whole time she was there! It was not the best, and other people had to walk the baby while she had her meetings.

      2. Random CPA*

        We actually have a few people at my office that already work reduced schedules, though for all of them it’s just a preference, not because of recently having children. So I don’t think it will be an issue. However, as the commenter below noted, the baby could be fussy, so I don’t want to worry about that if I go in. I like the idea of proposing my schedule and asking my boss to call me to discuss it. This way he’ll have time to think it over and present any concerns. I’m also going to let him know that I’m totally fine going back full-time if he doesn’t think it will work out, or, if he allows it, to rescind it at any time if he feels like it’s not going well.

        The only thing I need to worry about benefits-wise is working at least 30 hours a week to maintain benefits. I’m planning on asking to work 4 8-hour days with 1 day off per week, or alternately if he would like me there everyday, then 5 6-hour days. And obviously take the appropriate salary cut based on the option I end up working. We just hired an extra person in my department that I passed along a lot of my duties to so my boss could push down more of his work to me. He’s slow to pass on work so I think the reduced schedule will give him time to pass work along to me.

    5. E*

      Just wanted to say thanks for asking. I’m 5 months out from delivery of my first child, but am already trying to determine the best way to negotiate for a partial work from home schedule for the month or two after maternity leave. I just don’t see adjusting back to full time work as going completely smoothly. Fortunately I already am able to work from home with boss’ approval as needed occasionally, so it’s not a huge leap and I really think I’d still get all my work done.

  12. Treading Water*

    This might sound silly, but I am about to embark on a job search after really building up my network the past year and a half. I haven’t really worked my network in the past for jobs, but it’s very common in the industry I am now in. My question is… How have you all begun those conversations in the past? Ask your contact to get coffee and talk to them about an interest in their company? Suddenly email them from your personal email saying you’re looking and are interested in a possible position with them?

    I can easily have the conversation once I’m in front of them, but getting started feels so awkward to me! What have others done in the past? Things that worked, things that didn’t work?

    1. Diddly*

      What you’ve said doesn’t sound to bad to me, maybe instead phrase it that you’ve just started looking and are interested in picking their brains about their company/role or just ask their advice – can we meet up for a quick coffee?
      I’d love to talk to you about x, do you have some free time for a coffee and a chat?
      They can arrange a time that suits them, quick coffee means they can always dash if they feel uncomfortable – you can do the same, and you can buy the coffee :)
      I should do this but have no useful contacts :). I think it’s pretty common, nothing to feel bad about. Some people might not respond though or say they have no time.

    2. Sunflower*

      I would send an email and say you’re job searching and interested in their company. I would hold off on bringing up getting coffee. Some people are really busy and want to help but really don’t have the time(or don’t want to) commit an hour to something like this. Let them decide where to go from your inquiry. Some will just send an email back and say this and this about my company, these jobs are open or some will ask if you want to get together to chat.

      I know it feels awkward but people do it alllllll the time. Most people, esp if they are higher up and it’s common in your industry, are super used to it.

      1. Koko*

        This, but with a slight modification – just let them know that you’re looking for work doing X, Y, and/or Z, and you would appreciate if they let you know of any opportunities they think would be a good match. Don’t necessarily limit it to opportunities at their own company unless you specifically are only interested in a few companies. Most of the job opportunities I’ve gotten through my network has not been directly for the employer of the person who referred me. An agency rep will discreetly let me know that one of their other clients is hiring for a position like mine, or I’ll get a heads-up from a peer who has a similar job function as me but in a different industry (say, we both do teapot design but he works in chocolate and I work in mascarpone so he knows who in chocolate needs teapot designers but my contacts are mostly limited to other mascarpone companies).

  13. Intern, leaving soon*

    I am so glad I got on this early.
    I am an intern at a large energy company within the audit department. I will be leaving on the 14th to return to college for my last year. I would like to bring in some thing to thank the people I worked with, both in my sub department and the department as a whole. I have a direct supervisor at this office, with the director of my department and the intern manager located in a different office in another state. So I have 2 questions. Would it be out of line to send a thank you note or email to my 3 supervisors, or would an in person thank you suffice? Also, would bringing a treat in, like a box of doughnut holes, be inappropriate. I don’t think I will get a FT offer, but would like to maintain a positive relationship with the people I worked with. Also, AMA has been invaluable in helping me navigate the professional world, thank you so much.

    1. kozinskey*

      It’s totally appropriate to bring in a treat on your last day. In my interning days I brought in a big bowl of fun-size candy; our current intern brought in donuts today for his last day. I’m a fan of the email thank-you, because that way you can thank everyone you worked with and provide contact information. That’s a good thing to do in case they have questions about any work you did, and of course helps them get in touch with you if they decide they want you back =)

    2. Jwal*

      Do people bring food into your office? In mine if you were to bring in a box of doughnuts or something then everyone would love you (bonus points if you also brought in grapes or something so people could kid themselves that they are eating healthily).

    3. hermit crab*

      This depends a lot on your company culture, but in most cases I think either an in-person or emailed thank you would be appropriate. Around here, people tend to send a blanket “thanks, it’s been great, let’s keep in touch” goodbye email on their last day to all the people they’ve been working closely with. I’d probably skip the treats unless it’s a common thing to do in your office.

    4. Dr. Ruthless*

      I think that a thank you email is perfectly appropriate (and could/should be done in addition to in-person thank you).

      Donut holes or a similar (small, cheap) gesture might be nice. But seriously, don’t spend too much (or, like, stay up all night baking on your last night or anything). I always felt weird when our interns brought us snacks, because, like, we don’t pay you [much/at all]. Let *me* buy *you* coffee.

      1. hermit crab*

        Yes, thanks for articulating what I was thinking! It’s not that it’s inappropriate to bring in little treats (not at all!), but I would feel a little awkward if they’re coming from an intern. It’s different among regular employees — bring on the baked goods! :)

        1. TCO*

          I once had an unpaid intern (nonprofit) who also worked at Panera and occasionally got to bring in free treats. I think it’s totally fine to bring in something inexpensive, but I would have felt uncomfortable if she’d paid a lot for the treats.

    6. SL*

      I wish I’d brought in treats my last day as an intern! My company treated me to lunch and then threw me a goodbye party. It was quite a send-off for an intern, but I know that not every office is like that. If bringing in treats is something you’ve seen people do when they come back from vacation or when they just baked way too much at home, then by all means, go for it, and leave a note next to the plate in the kitchen.

      But a thank you card or email (I tend to do both email and a nice card for my supervisors) is always, always, always welcomed. Don’t skip on those! I would also look at sending an all-department goodbye email near the end of the day with your contact information and LinkedIn profile.

    7. Lily in NYC*

      We had one great intern last year who gave his supervisors hand-written thank you notes, and it went over extremely well – they were all very pleased by it. Email is fine too, but don’t second-guess yourself if you want to give them hand-written ones.

      1. SL*

        I had great internships and I was always sad to go, but my favorite part was going to the store to pick up thank you notes/cards and getting to pick ones that fit the personality or interests of the people I was writing them to. So many people, interns or not, don’t take the time to hand-write thank you notes anymore that it comes off as a thoughtful gesture.

      2. Sunflower*

        I love to give a handwritten thank you when I can. Since it doesn’t really make sense for interviews, since you never know when it’s gonna get there in relationship to when they’re making a decision, I love doing it for things that are not time sensitive. And I think people LOVE getting them since they are so not common nowadays.

    8. T3k*

      When I finished up my internships, I made sure to give them a thank you card (I was a design/print major, so it was common for us to create and print our own). It never crossed my mind to bring food, but then again, I never got a goodbye party either (though I did get to share in a wonderful German chocolate cake the bakery next door gave us because it had fallen over in it’s box so they couldn’t use it for an event).

      1. T3k*

        Also, I printed my message in the card as well. It wasn’t a generic template, but because my handwriting is so small and can be difficult to read, I wanted to make sure they could actually read it xD

  14. Fawn*

    I’m going to be starting a post-grad program in career advising in September. I’m really excited about it – I work at a university now in academic advising, and I expect that I’ll continue to work in college/university career centres (I love working with students). After 3 years of reading this blog, I’m hopeful that I’ll be one of ‘the good ones’.

    I’m interested in hearing from other career advisors/counsellors on a few points:
    – where do you work? (university, college, gov’t, private organization, self-employed?)
    – what do you enjoy most about your work/enjoy least?
    – and advice for someone hoping to break into the field?
    – what’s the market like in your area for this type of role? (I know mine is fairly good…just interested to know)

    1. College Career Counselor*

      Congratulations on starting a post-grad program! I have also worked in academic advising, and I think you’ll find a lot of the skills are transferrable (able to listen to students, ask probing questions about what they’re interested in/care about, familiarity with higher education bureaucracy–it’s a feature, not a bug!).

      What I enjoy most about what I do is working with students to help them figure out what they’re really interested in, good at, and what skills that actually translates into. Then, showing them how to explore those interests and articulate their education and skills effectively. I got into the field to help students a zillion years ago, and they’re the reason I continue to do this work. (That said, I have done some private practice career coaching/consulting on the side and while it’s okay, I found that did not enjoy things like billing/collections, self-promotion/marketing, etc. YMMV, of course.)

      What I enjoy least about my work is two-fold:
      1) The lack of student follow-through to explore or evaluate advice, resources, suggestions, information, etc. In other words, you can lead the horse to the ATS, but you can’t make him apply. On a related note, students often don’t come back to tell you what happened with their internship/job search/grad school application/interview/negotiation, etc.

      2) The institutional pressure to provide effective services/demonstrate tangible outcomes for everyone. I get why it’s happening, but many places aren’t resourced properly and career services is an optional service for students to access at the vast majority of institutions in the U.S. So, you still get judged on the outcomes for people that you’ve never seen, can’t get to come in, and who just plain aren’t ready (for reasons of maturity, interest, focus, etc.) to take the next steps in their professional development. Get ready to do much online and group work with student populations if you go the university route, but be prepared that you will have to operate from a standpoint of encouragement and influence to engage with you, not authority.

      Advice: cultivate relationships with faculty, coaches and other university personnel who have the attention of students–they will be your allies to compete for their attention around that vast and ill-defined thing known as “life after college.” You absolutely cannot operate effectively without building those relationships (and convincing them of the value career services in general–depending on the reputation of the career department–is critical to winning their trust).

      From what I have seen, the market nationally seems to be fairly robust, depending on the level/type of institution you’re looking for. There are fewer jobs the higher up you go (which makes sense). If you’re willing to re-locate (or if your area has a lot of colleges), you should have options at the career counselor/assistant director level. Consider pre-professional advising roles (pre-health, pre-law, etc.) as another way of doing college career counseling, as well as civic engagement/community service learning as a bridge to career services. If your area has a local/regional career development professionals group, join it and go to their meetings to network with people and learn best practices–you might also get a heads-up on jobs before they’re posted.

      Hope this is helpful–good luck!

      1. Mimmy*

        I’m not the original asker of this question, but you’ve piqued my curiosity. A few years ago, I had attended a function for students and alumni at the university where I got my Masters, and I remember talking with a couple of people who were just starting their programs (I think I might’ve been the only alumni there–I was invited by a faculty member I’m friendly with). One gentleman said “thank you for your counsel”. To myself, I was all, “hmmm…”. You mentioned advising for pre-professional students; what about those in professional graduate degrees, like social work or counseling?

        I haven’t been in touch with my profession as much since. I like my current graduate program (advanced certificate), but I miss my old stomping grounds!

        1. College Career Counselor*

          In the undergraduate world (in my experience, anyway), there is often a pre-law or pre-health (md, PA, PT, etc.) advisor. This person may be a faculty member, a staff member, or even a part-time professional moonlighting or volunteering. I’ve occasionally seen pre-business or pre-engineering advisors, although those tend to be faculty members who are in charge of shepherding students to the 3+1/2 program (undergrad + professional degree).

          Unfortunately what I haven’t seen is anyone specifically tasked with being the pre-social work/counseling advisor. Quite a few career counseling types have social work/counseling backgrounds, so they probably do it on their own as part of their regular career counseling activities. I suspect that because the “medical/law/business professions” were historically high-paying (and the admissions process was more constrained than other fields), this contributed to the idea that specialized advising services were appropriate/necessary for students considering those paths.

          My colleagues and I have certainly had a ton of conversations with social work/counseling interested students over the years, but I’ve never seen or heard of anyone specifically tasked with that demographic as their sole job. Maybe others have, though?

        2. College Career Counselor*

          Ack! I may have misunderstood! Did you mean is there career counseling for grad students in social work/counseling programs? If that’s what you meant, the answer is “sometimes.” If the school is separate/decentralized enough to have its own career services operation, there can be a director of career services for the students, often by someone who has a counseling degree/background him/herself. This person may also work with the program for practicum placement, but not always. Other times, the faculty are expected to do a lot of work with assisting their students/advisees in finding placements. If the grad student is NOT going into a counseling/social work field (which happens more than you’d think), the students generally to go university-wide career services to learn about alternatives.

          1. Mimmy*

            Sorry, I know my questions don’t always make much sense :( I was referring to academic advising, but now that I think about it, I think that role falls mostly with faculty…I had a couple of academic advisors, and both were faculty members. My university (state university) did have career counselors who were liaisons to specific schools, but they still functioned under the centralized career services system, and I think it still does. The woman I regularly saw was the school of social work liaison, but I think her background was counseling, so I don’t think she understood the breadth of the field, which a LOT of people don’t (I’d ultimately wanted to move away from traditional, direct service roles).

            Ack, I digress!! Anyway, thank you so much for your insights. Your posts are always very helpful. And now I see how frustrating it can be to work with young people!! (but it sounds like it can be rewarding at times too).

      2. Fawn*

        This is more insight than I ever could have hoped for – thank you so much! In many ways, it sounds like the challenges will closely mirror those in my current work – lack of follow-through from students can sometimes be disheartening, and institutional expectations can be frustrating (and shockingly out of touch). I don’t know how well-suited I would be to private coaching/consulting either, at this point in my life, but it’s definitely appealing to have the option if there’s a time when I need to create some flexibility. You’ve given me a good deal to think about.

        Also, reading your response reminded me of a comment from another AAM open thread back in December 2014 that I had actually saved because it so accurately described the type of work I enjoy doing. I pulled it up from my desktop and, sure enough, it was a comment from you! Your advice obviously speaks to me :)

  15. AndersonDarling*

    I wanted to give some support to other job seekers. My husband interviewed for a “perfect” job and was supposed to hear back on Tuesday. Each day without a call was more and more depressing. (I thought I had moved passed getting obsessed with potential jobs, but I haven’t.) This job seemed so great that nothing could compare to it.
    Then I realized that this “perfect” job surfaced after just two weeks of searching and there will certainly be another one in a few weeks. There is more than one great job opening in the world! We just have to wait.

    1. Not So Sunny*

      I commiserate with you. My husband is also searching and the ups and downs can be overwhelming. Like you, I so want him to find something he’s happy with. Best of luck!

    2. voluptuousfire*

      +1. If you have a good resume and cover letter, there will always be other interviews. I remind myself of that when I have an interview that bites the dust. Another one pops up later that day or the next.

    3. Diddly*

      Had interesting experience in terms of PR I guess surrounding job applications. I wrote last week about a job I applied for which didn’t seem to have some common sense parts in their application. Because of this I couldn’t see myself getting the role (although I gave it my all.)
      I got a rejection this week, which was the standard, we’ve gotten so many applications, you didn’t make the cut, we won’t tell you why. I decided to give them feedback on things I thought they were lacking in the application form (not in a ranty antagonistic way, but in I was frustrated I didn’t have the capacity to do x, y, z .) I didn’t expect an instant response but I got one – except it was generic without my name, saying they didn’t give feedback (which I had asked about if possible at the end.) Really all they had to do was fob me off with thank you for your feedback and we’ll look into it, and use my name and they could have responded days later. – Just left a bad feeling, that it was an impenetrable organization and I was being ignored.

      Compare this to an application I made, where they must equally get the same number of applicants, where they acknowledge my application, used my name in the Dear section, gave me a time frame, were just warm, friendly, positive and were obviously trying to keep me as a customer if I didn’t get the role – but they did it in such a way that I had a positive feeling.
      It was just such a disparate reaction, I think employers forget that job hunters are essentially insiders to their procedures and bad word of mouth spreads quicker than good.

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      I once applied for a job that had my name on it. I didn’t hear anything for nearly 6 months. Then they called me in, interviewed me, and hired me. So great jobs can take a long time.

      It was a great job too. But then the CEO was killed in an auto accident, and things just fell apart. Within a year, our great team had scattered to the wind, myself included. Even perfect jobs don’t always last.

  16. Calla*

    WORK UPDATE: I’ve posted in the last two threads about a male admin making a suspicious amount more than female admins with identical jobs, and how it was discovered that he founded a pick-up artist group, and then it was revealed that a director who left at the beginning of this year ALSO ran a different PUA group. Well, update! For some reason, male admin was moved to a different position which (intel says) resulted in a significant pay cut. That was super satisfying for us female admins! A few days after that, he approached one of my coworkers (in a completely different department) asking if he could join her team. She’s not hiring anyone but I don’t think she would have regardless since she knows what’s up with him!

    ALSO: I think this is kind of work related. I just started an etsy shop selling essential oil perfumes and (soon to come) skincare products! I’m pretty excited and for being open only about 2 weeks I feel good about already having some sales including a custom order. I’ve set up a FB connected to it. Does anyone have any tips for really kickstarting an online shop? I’m obviously not expecting to support myself on this but I would let to have it be an active shop.

    1. kozinskey*

      I think social media can be key for etsy! I’d make sure to update the facebook page frequently. I’d also start up an instagram — I follow a few etsy folks on instagram and I love seeing pictures of new products.

      1. Calla*

        Thanks! Instagram (maybe connected to a tumblr) has occurred to me but on the other hand I feel like you can only make bottles of perfume and tubs of lotion look so pretty, you know? It’s not like clothes or jewelry or something. But I’m definitely brainstorming around that.

        1. Not So Sunny*

          Showing cool shots of ingredients and inspiration, along with work in progress, can be engaging.

        2. Liz*

          If you go with the tumblr/blog route, use it to do more than just post pictures.

          One thing that can be very useful with corporate blogging is to become a subject matter expert on whatever you are selling.

          Have a series of posts dedicated to the benefits of different oils. Talk about the history and origin of the products. Find a way to get people to your site who aren’t looking to buy and then convert them. Link up with other bloggers in similar but not identical (think healthy/natural living) and join the community to cross-promote your products.

          Also look into pinterest. You can have your pins link to either the store or the blog depending on what you are posting. Plus you never know what kinds of things will get big on there. I am just a casual pinner, but a few of my pins that I only found sort of interesting continually have been repinned for the past year

    2. H. Hog*

      You might want to consider buying one of the spots available on Etsy for one or two days. A friend of mine swears that worked for getting her sales. It’s not much money; I forget how much. Good luck to you!

      1. Calla*

        Oh yeah, promoted listings? I have that set up! It’s at a pretty low daily max though, so maybe I should try upping that if it really works.

        2. Tris Prior*

          For what it’s worth, promoted listings never worked for me. Being active on social media seemed to help more, and also having good tags to help people find my products in search.

          Good luck! For me summer is pretty slow on Etsy but things really pick up in the fall so you’re launching at a good time, I think.

          1. Calla*

            That’s good to know! Honestly I wouldn’t have thought of there being seasons on such a huge online marketplace. What kind of shop do you have?

            1. Tris Prior*

              I make jewelry – so it’s REALLY tough for me to get seen. SO much jewelry on there!

    3. Bekx*

      I’d recommend a lot of keywords and basic SEO techniques. Some of the shops I’ve seen that seem successful do a lot of advertising on other platforms (instagram, facebook, tumblr, reddit) and post things that are in their shops.

      1. Calla*

        Ooh, thanks! That looks great. I don’t currently meet the minimum number of items (10) but I’m going to work on some more this weekend.

    5. Chalupa Batman*

      I have a friend who started a similar Etsy shop, and I did a review on her products for my blog. Then we partnered for a review and giveaway a few weeks later when she started making a product that directly related to my main topic. I don’t know if it translated to sales or not, but the review posts are still popular, and the giveaway winner was a popular blogger who raved about the products to a good sized audience. If you are able to spare a few samples, check out a few of the beauty blog groups in Facebook or look for #bbloggers in any social media, find a few bloggers that have a writing style that’s a good match for you, and offer them the samples in exchange for their honest review. Beauty bloggers are a huge community of people who are eager to give indie products a try, and we all read each other’s stuff. My blog is just for fun, but I have at least 20-30 other beauty blogs on my feed. We’re also a polite bunch-even in negative reviews, I’ve noticed that beauty bloggers try to give indies benefit of the doubt and cover pros and cons, even for products they don’t love.

  17. Christy*

    Can we talk about non-profit boards? A few commenters this morning complained about boards that they’d worked with or under. I’m interested to know the general vibe around boards on AAM. I’m on a board for a small non-profit and it’s still kind of foreign to me. (Criticism totally welcomed, btw. I just want to know what people think.)

    1. misspiggy*

      There’s often feeling among employees that the board should hold higher management to account, and that boards don’t do this. Good board members, while being realistic about how much actual power they have over management, make an effort to build relationships with staff to get a feel for how day to day business is going.

      1. Christy*

        Real question: When would a board member interact with staff? In my instance, we only see staff a few times a year, much less than we see the executive director.

        1. misspiggy*

          If it’s a funding foundation, at funding approval meetings; at site visits; at all-staff or volunteer events; at strategy and review meetings; at goodbyes for longtime staff; chatting in the corridor on the way to meetings with the CEO… In my experience with several UK NGOs of varying sizes, the best nonprofits make opportunities for board members to meet staff and clients, and the best board members push for those opportunities if not offered.

          1. misspiggy*

            Should add that a few times a year is fine if board members make the effort to have formal and informal conversations with a range of staff.

        2. Florida*

          In any nonprofit, the board will work mostly with the ED. In some cases, you may work a lot with development or finance. That depends on your role on the board (what committees are you on?) and the culture of the nonprofit.

          Many EDs want to keep their staff away from board members. To me, this is a red flag, particularly if the ED wants to keep development and finance staff away from the board. Let me clarify that a little… For the most part, the staff will not need to talk to the board, but I’m always concerned when the ED forbids the staff from talking to the board. I worked at place once where the ED forbid the Development Director from talking directly to any board member. That place was toxic.

          Now, it would be wildly inappropriate for a staffer to call you and complain about management issues. If that ever happens (except in very extreme situations), your response should probably be, “Have you talked to the ED about this?” You can’t get involved in the day-to-day operations of the nonprofit. That never works. But if you have a question about the tutoring program, you should be able to call the person in charge of the tutoring program to get your question answered (do we do tutoring at XYZ school?), if you want to, but it is not your place to tell the tutoring guy how to run the program.

          Does that help?

        3. InterviewFreeZone*

          I’m an event director at a non-profit. I interact with my board very regularly as they are the driving force behind some of our event fundraising efforts. Same thing with my boss, the development director. And of course, the ED.

    2. KathyGeiss*

      I totally understand why some staff members would want the board to be more informed/involved in the day-to-day when they feel management isn’t doing a good job. But, if you’re a board for an organization that has staff, your mandate is to stay OUT of the day-to-day and focus on the long-term direction of the organization. You need to hire a competent executive director and give them space to do their job.

      I’ve worked for organizations where board members get too involved and it causes all sorts of problems.

      Now, I think there is value in assessing the organizations health based on metrics that include staffing health (for lack of a better term). If there is lots of turnover or poor morale, you’ll want to dig into understanding why.

      2. MsM*

        It also depends on the type of day-to-day help. Want to try and get your friends to donate to the organization? I am thrilled to work with you on that. Have an idea for a new speaker or a reception when the big conference is two weeks away and the programs are at the printers? Not so much.

      3. Jenna Maroney*

        I just started 30 Rock (into season 4 in record time) and I have to say I giggle whenever I see your name.

      4. BRR*

        I’m not sure people want the board involved in day-to-day stuff, they just want the staff to hold the ED accountable for the ED’s day-to-day stuff.

      5. Ihmmy*

        I know they’re supposed to be fairly hands off, but I’ve also had the incredible frustration of having a terrible CEO and the Board refused to get involved when there were issues between her and us staff that were.. well, she was a terrible terrible ‘leader’. But she politicked well and got financial results, so they pretended it didn’t matter that she slept with past presidents and chased away the staff.

    3. khoots*

      I think for me it has always been to have realistic expectations for the non-profit you’re serving. For example, the board of directors for my non-profit are extremely demanding (we also have an unrealistically large board) in the types of reports we get.

      Also if you are coming from a for-profit company, realize that the company you’re on the board for has a non-profit budget and limitations. Yes it would be great if we could cut costs and improve revenue, but as a non-profit, we’re here for the clients and not just to make an extra buck.

      1. Christy*

        Thank you! What do you mean “in the types of reports we get”? Does that mean they want you to report a lot to them?

        1. khoots*

          Yes they want a lot of detail; certain figures on our donors, our clients etc. A lot of it is detail that has no bearing on decision making, it’s more so for their curiosity. Things like age, gender, and location of clients I can understand, but I won’t be able to tell you how many clients have brown hair.

          We also have limitations in what our reporting software is able to provide. Yes I would love to tell you how many clients are single parent, 3 children households, but if we aren’t able to track it through the software we use then we aren’t able to report on it.

          There are also sometimes requests that we get last minute. If you are going to have a board of directors meeting, try not to request a complicated report 24hours before you meet. That is always very stressful for us on our end.

  18. Angela Vickers*

    Not exactly “work” related, but an organization I volunteer for is really trying to get feedback from volunteers. I read the little form they sent out and don’t have any feedback to give them (at least that I am willing to share, so I emailed the volunteer co-ordinator telling her that I really don’t have much to share. I basically got an email back from her almost DEMANDING that I give feedback when I honestly don’t have any!!! In her email she said that she “knows” I have opinions/thoughts on the organization and begged me to share them, but…. I really don’t have any feedback that I want to share.

    How can I politely decline giving feedback AGAIN??

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      “I really don’t, but I’ll let you know if anything comes to mind. If there’s something very specific you’d like feedback on, let me know.”

    3. Paige Turner*

      Wow…ironically if you didn’t have feedback before, you do now. Is there someone else in the org that you could get in touch with about the volunteer co-ordinator getting pushy? If you don’t want to do that, then I don’t think you need to be super polite back to a person who has been pretty rude to you. Tell her you already said that you don’t have feedback.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      Could you comment on if they were organized? Friendly? You felt like you were making a difference or felt valued as a volunteer? Even a note that you are satisfied and plan to continue volunteering may be all they need.
      The coordinator may be trying to get a 100% response rate, so any kind of feedback is acceptable.

      1. MsM*

        Or they may just need enough of a response to satisfy whoever wants the evaluation done. You obviously don’t have to do it, but I also don’t think you need to overthink it. Even “I wouldn’t change anything” is feedback. (Even if you’re only saying it because you know you can’t change the stuff that bugs you.)

        1. Florida*

          I understand the need to get a certain number of surveys completed, but I would not recommend giving false feedback. If you are going to give feedback, tell them what you really think. If you aren’t willing to do that (which it sounds like the person isn’t willing), then don’t do it at all.

          Just tell them that you don’t have any feedback that you are willing to share right now. If she pushes you, just repeat that you don’t have any feedback that you are willing to share. The more she pushes, the more I would stick to the talking points.

    6. Another HRPro*

      Remember, feedback isn’t limited to criticism or opportunities. Think about what you like about your volunteer experience, what you don’t like, what you would change if you could, what you want to make sure doesn’t change.

  19. Holly*

    Anyone else still have (actual) nightmares after a former, absolutely horrible job/company you used to work at? Even months or years after leaving there?

    1. H. Hog*

      Actually, yes, I do. I was in the legal field as an admin assistant for about a decade, and sometimes I dream I am in this law firm, expected to use a typewriter (yes, I am that old) and working for one of the most annoying bosses I’ve ever had (he had Alzheimer’s and nobody would admit anything was wrong. It was like “Gaslight.”) This was a good 20 years ago now.
      Also, for the longest time after I was laid off from my former position, I dreamed I was working there for no pay. In the dream, I volunteered to go in there and work and told them I didn’t even need money–to please just let me stay. Which was totally bizarre, b/c I hated that job and it was a total relief when they let me go.

      1. Bend & Snap*

        Yes. 8 years in that company, 3 years gone, and I still have dreams about my terrorist of a boss.

    2. Turanga Leela*

      Yep. I used to be a teacher in a wildly disorganized school, and I still have nightmares that I’m in front of a class with no lesson plan and a horde of middle schoolers to contain.

      I think most teachers have some version of this dream, just like most students have dreams about taking an exam for a class they didn’t realize they were in.

      1. Katie the Fed*

        Yeah, every teacher I know has this recurring dream. I have the one of being in college and forgetting I’ve been enrolled in a class and the final is tomorrow.

        1. Holly*

          I havef that one constantly even though I’ve been out of college for years! Apparently I enrolled in several classes but don’t know where the classrooms are, and then I figure out 1-2 of them and think I’m fine but it turns out I forgot another 1-2 and haven’t attended since first week and now I’m failing them…argh. They’re the worst.

          1. H. Hog*

            OMG! I have that one too, about the forgotten class and non-attendance. I’m in grad school at the moment so I’m sure that has something to do with it.

          2. sophiabrooks*

            I have this exact dream all the time, too. It also involves trying to go to the registrar’s office to try and withdraw from the classes I haven’t been attending. But I can never locate the office, or if I do, I can’t find or fill out the right forms in time to make the deadline.

            Often the classes are located in my high school.

            I graduated from high school in 1991 and college in 1995.

            1. Dynamic Beige*

              I’ve had this one a few times, too and haven’t been in college for years. It usually happens that there’s a big project due, I haven’t been to the class (sometimes I forgot I was even enrolled in it) and the deadline for withdrawal has past.

              I had the taking-an-exam-that-you-don’t-know-what-it-is-and-haven’t-studied dream once. I was back in the high school gym, I could see the foolscap paper, the clock on the wall counting down to 9am. But as I started to panic, I suddenly just burst out in the dream “This is ridiculous! I graduated from high school years ago!” Never had it again and I am not someone who can lucid dream, it was pure frustration on my part.

            2. afiendishthingy*

              In my high school dreams I can never find my locker and I can’t remember my schedule. I also feel really awkward about being in high school even though I’m in my 30s, but there was one class I never took that was actually required. And of course I haven’t been in months. Usually at some point I say WAIT don’t I have two post-secondary degrees?? They wouldn’t have given those to me if I hadn’t really graduated high school, would they??

        2. H. Hog*

          My mom was a schoolteacher and she still has a recurring dream that she gets a letter in the mail that her college degree is invalid and she has to take a special test to get “recertified.”

          1. Colorado*

            haha! Me too! I have a reoccurring dream that I never finished my degree and have to go back to living in the dorms. Just had it the other night again!

        3. bridget*

          They are also always, always math classes, so I KNOW that I cannot BS/guess my way into a passing grade. (I haven’t taken a real math class since I was 17, but clearly the anxiety really settled in).

          1. Katie the Fed*

            Mine is usually something obscure that I couldn’t possibly memorize the night before the test, like 19th century Japanese history.

        5. Anonsie*

          I have this dream all the time. There was an XKCD about it some years ago and Randall Munroe said you just get those dreams forever. Forever.

          I feel like this is a pretty good indicator of how we treat students.

          1. Katie the Fed*

            When I was a teaching assistant, I actually had a kid run up to me after a class the week before the final. He had always been on the roll but never there so I figured it was a registrar mistake. Anyway, he comes in and says “Is this PoliSci 120? I totally forgot I enrolled in this class – what should I do?”

            All I could think was to send him to the registrar.

            So it actually IS possible this can happen – which I think scares me even more :)

            1. College Career Counselor*

              You did the right thing. Depending on the school, sometimes you can get the instructor to sign a “never taken/never attended” form which will allow the student to drop the class. How do I know this? Because I pre-registered for a course as a “place-holder” in the spring for the upcoming fall semester. Four months later in the fall, I got into the course that I had initially been closed out of and forgot to drop the original class. D’OH! (Turned out okay, but I was sweating getting an F for a class I never took)

              1. Anonsie*

                This should make me feel better but all it’s doing it spiking my anxiety that it is totally possible to accidentally be registered in a course all semester without knowing. Oh god.

    3. Owl*

      Yep. But mostly they consist of things being so horrible that I yell at them about it. I’m the last person to yell at anyone for anything, am slow to anger, etc, but in those dreams, wow! I think in the most recent one they weren’t taking care of the fish properly and I chewed out my former manager about it. Heh. Felt awful when I woke up, but also felt relieved. I didn’t realize how bad it was until after I left.

    4. louise*

      Yes. It used to be at least a couple times a week, but as time has gone by, I only remember these dreams a couple times a month. I keep hoping they’ll go away for good.

    6. GOG11*

      I had some dreams after quitting my retail job. One in particular that I remember wasn’t actually after I’d left, but it was pretty funny.

      My cat had had surgery that day and was pretty loopy so when I went to bed I left the bedroom door open so I could hear if he got into (or fell off of) anything. Sometime in the middle of the night, the anesthesia wore off but not the pain meds, so he was feeling really good I guess. He kept doing laps around my place, part of which involved jumping up on the bed, running over my body, and jumping back down.

      My brain translated that into him being a customer placing orders, but he kept changing the details so I’d have to redo bits, but I couldn’t understand him because he ordered in meows. I somehow was still producing things and was super stressed that I wouldn’t get his ever-changing orders completed in time. I don’t miss that job.

      1. Kelly L.*

        To be fair, dealing with annoying customers is a lot like dealing with an insomniac, drugged cat. LOL!

          1. GOG11*

            I tend to agree with you. I had one guy who was talking on the phone through his whole order. He asked for a copy of something, I made a copy, gave him the copy and the original, and he asked which one was the copy. I pointed to it, and he replied that it looked like shit. Uh…if you can’t tell the difference between your original and the copy, maybe your original looks like shit? Why would you expect a copy of it to be any better? It’s a copier, not f*cking photoshop.

    7. Kairi*

      I used to work at a Panera Bread a few years back, and I still have nightmares about portioning chicken and endless customers complaining but every time I tried to fix the problem, something else would go wrong. Working in the food industry was really eye-opening about a lot of things.

    8. Sydney Bristow*

      I used to work retail and fast food and still have nightmares about trying to close up but people keep showing up and I can’t ever lock the doors.

    9. msbadbar*

      Yes–oddly, I was just thinking about this yesterday after I saw my old manager’s face on LinkedIn. It looks like he’s still using the fake job title he made up for his tenure at my old company. He was the Teapot Director, but he listed his title as Director of all Ceramics Production so he could get his current job, Director of all Ceramics Production. I wonder how HR at his new org didn’t catch that.

      He was a piece of work and made working there very depressing. He bad mouthed the org and most people in it to us, his team, on a regular basis. He had some kind of beef with his boss (a woman I respected and liked) and spread around ill will on the regular. Almost every team meeting was about how the company sucked and was doing us all wrong and we should all find new jobs (really). It was sad.

    10. Lily in NYC*

      Ha, yes! I still have stress dreams about an especially awful duty I had at my last job.

    12. Another English Major*

      Yes, I used to wait table and I had nightmares all the time about angry customers, getting too many tables all at once, and basic things like drinks and bread running out. I haven’t been a server for 5 years now but every once in a while I still have these nightmares.

    14. Elizabeth West*

      Not nightmares, but I still dream about the cafe in California and it’s been like 25 years. I dream that I stop in and have to make sandwiches. Or that I have to work there again for some reason. One time I dreamed I was still working there and a spaceship landed in the parking lot and my boss made me go out to see if they wanted to place an order. o_O

  20. lia*

    I’ve done a couple rounds of interviews with a company I’d like to work for and the final round will be next week. I haven’t been asked for references yet, but I’m sure it will come up soon. Problem is, one of my usual references applied for a job at this company and turned it down in favor of another offer. Should I shy away from giving him as a reference for this company, or would something like this not matter?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Shouldn’t matter. They thought enough of him to want to hire him, and it’s not like turning down an offer = spitting in their face. It’s a normal part of doing business.

  21. Anonforthisoneyeah*

    It doesn’t matter how many hiring committees I serve on, I still get anxious when I’m waiting to hear back about a job I applied for.

    On the flip side, I was able to hire the candidate I wanted.

  22. HigherEd Frustration*

    Does anyone in HigherEd have any advice? I’m trying to move into HigherEd in a more entry level position and/or Admin Assist position. I graduated in 2012 and have about 3-5 years of experience doing Administrative Assistant roles or things very similar. I keep getting interviews (thanks to this blog!), and got to the final round of interviews for about half, but I still can’t seem to get a job offer. When I ask for feedback, I’ve been told that my resume and cover letter are great, that my interview was impressive, and there’s nothing they think I need to work on. It all comes down to the other person having more experience than me. A couple have even called me on the phone to tell me to look out for future openings and that they really hope to see me in the future. I know they might be blowing a little smoke and/or not being 100% truthful in their feedback, but I feel really hopeless. I know its rough out there, but my current job is a nightmare I’ve been trying to escape for the last year. Any advice on how to stand out or make a great impression in a University interview?

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      It sounds like are doing a great job already. It’s entirely possible that the other candidates really do have more experience and that’s the deciding factor. The only other advice I can give is to make sure you’ve really done your homework on the university you are apply to. I always ask “tell me what you know about X College?” as my first question. It’s super simple but cuts through the weaker candidates quickly. The normal answer is “my friend/coworker/etc went there and really liked it.” No, just no. Be able to talk about mission, history, the population served (if it’s a non-traditional school, for example), about the president and his/her goals for the institution and how you can help with that.
      I like asking that because it’s all easily accessible information and if you can’t answer it then you probably didn’t do any research. So immediately you are bumped down my list.

      1. Ama*

        Seconded. I will add that a lot of universities have customized or in-house systems they expect an admin assistant to be able to get up to speed on quickly — you may be losing out to people who have worked directly with their byzantine in house purchasing system, or whatever. I know that was a huge barrier to entry at the last university I worked for.

        What has always worked for me when trying to get hired in areas where I have little experience is stressing examples where I had to quickly get up to speed on a process or system and was successful. It seems to reassure people that I’m both aware of how much I don’t know, but also totally capable of dealing with it until I do.

      2. College Career Counselor*

        +1. They want to know why you want to work THERE (as opposed to the college across the street), and the more specific you can be about how the student population/mission/ethos of the place not only fits what you’re looking for but how you can contribute to it, the better.

    2. voluptuousfire*

      Can’t offer you any advice in regards to higher ed, but can definitely empathize about getting to the last round of interviews and being edged out to that other candidate with the magical x factor you don’t have. It’s too much of not enough. Solidarity!

      1. HigherEd Frustration*

        How have you expressed how you are a quick learner/can learn new systems easily? I actually worked at my university using some of the systems these jobs require, but it only seems to get me in the door. I’ve talked about how I have always learned new skills quickly. I try to highlight how I’ve been promoted at my last job, I take new projects on, proactive in solving problems; I’ve even talked about traveling abroad by myself (when it seemed appropriate). I’m really struggling to figure out how to answer these questions when I do have limited experience. It seems like my college degree and non-work related experiences aren’t helping either. I guess I’m just ranting a bit, but how am I supposed to edge out people with more experience when no one will give me the opportunity to gain more experience? Thanks for the solidarity!

    3. sophiabrooks*

      At my university, the jobs labeled “Admin Assistant” really needed someone who knew all the university systems already, or at least knew where they could get their own training. The job I had to start with was Secretary III, then move up to Secretary IV, and then move to Admin Assistant, which is for some reason considered “Professional Staff” and not “Support Staff” like the secretaries. I don’t think I know anyone who started at the Admin Assistant level who had not worked at the university in a support staff role.

      I don’t know if this is true for the universities you are applying to, it might just be a weirdness of mine.

      1. HigherEd Frustration*

        From all of the obsessive information gathering I’ve been doing for the past year, “Admin Assist II” seems to be the most entry level position in a support staff role at this university. Some of the departments have “Admin Assist I” or some variant of “Support Coordinator,” etc. It seems to really be up to the department. I won’t get a call for the lower level position, but then will get calls for higher level positions. “Admin Assist II” also has a LARGE degree of what they can be responsible for from basic receptionist duties to being in charge of high pressure graduate recruitment and marketing (I was NOT prepared for that interview ugh). I’m just really frustrated that the minimum requirement is HS Diploma or GED and 2-5 years experience and I’m either told I don’t have enough experience or asked why I would want an entry level position with all of my experience?! WHAT?!

        1. Ama*

          Yeah, university positions can vary widely depending on individual department structures. I started at an Admin Assit II position in a teeny department (3 full time employees) and by the time I left it I was basically the department administrative manager (but couldn’t get an actual raise/promotion, so I left) — then I was an Administrative Coordinator position which was technically a higher level and paid more (there were “staff” positions and “administrator” positions, and AC was an administrator tier), but it was for an entire grad school, so it was mostly just a bigger workload with less authority.

    4. Another HRPro*

      It has been several years, but I used to work in HigherEd. I would make sure you convey why you want to work in this field. Folks in HigherEd tend to talk almost as if their work is a calling. They place a high value on the aspiration to be involved (in any way) in educating society and young people specifically. They also value people want to advance their own education so if you have an interest in continuing your own education, I would mention that as well. Good luck!

      1. HigherEd Frustration*

        Good to know! One of the main reasons I was interested in working there was the opportunity to continue my education, but I wasn’t sure if that was really appropriate to bring up. I didn’t want them to think that was the one and only driving force behind why I applied there.

    5. InterviewFreeZone*

      I’ve been in this boat. Just keep applying – I’m sure you’ve heard that already, but it’s true. When I was hiring admins for my department in a university, we would literally get 300+ applications within the first few days. We regularly had more good candidates than we could use and we absolutely would pass on the resumes to other hiring managers looking for admins to save them some time on the initial screenings. In my experience, the HR person would not be indicating you should keep applying unless you were a strong candidate. It can take a frustratingly long time, but you’ll get in the door. It’s just very competitive due to the benefits that come with a lot of those jobs (health, dental, life, amazing retirement, tuition, childcare, etc).

      1. HigherEd Frustration*

        I guess part of the problem is that I am usually only interacting with the search committee and don’t have a direct HR person to speak with. The people telling me I am a strong candidate are on the hiring committee of the department, so if I apply to a different department it’s kind of like starting all over again. Could this potentially not be true? Ughh Thanks for listening, its just very disheartening when I’ve applied so many times and interviewed so many times and nothing is happening. AwfulJob isn’t helping. TGIF.

    6. Jennifer*

      I have the same problem, and there’s nothing you can do if someone has more experience.

    7. Cruciatus*

      I’ve been working at a med school (until today!) and start as an admin 2 within a major university system on Monday. It took me what felt like “forever” to get here. Even before I started at the med school I was looking for university jobs to no avail. But I started in the library doing a crap job with terrible hours (for nearly 2 years), then doing an administrative role with way more responsibilities (2.5 years). I started applying to other positions (mostly at universities) about a year into the med school administrative role. About 1.5 years later I got a few bites and a couple of interviews, then nothing. Kept this up until about 1.5 months ago when I told myself to just write the damn cover letter already and send it in–why spend so much time on it just to get rejected? (I realize this is probably my issue, not yours–just telling you what I went through). So I banged one out and sent it and…2 hits in a row at universities. Two interviews. Two offers. I couldn’t believe I was in the position to turn something down! But when I did the interview for the job I eventually accepted it felt right. I have my Master’s in sociology and this position is for a humanities/social sciences department. Just everything seemed to click. I didn’t think this when I was rejected previously, but now, I’m almost glad I didn’t get the other jobs because I think this position is more up my alley than the others. I thought the previous interviews I had were pretty good, if maybe not always great. But I seemed to click instantly with the staff/faculty at the interview and was the right one at the right time. I’m not saying fate/destiny or anything like that! Just that while waiting to get a new job I kept building up my experience until eventually I had everything they were looking for and the right person liked what they saw.

      So, in short, keep applying. I know you’re frustrated–I was there too! I almost can’t believe how good my job/employer I start on Monday sounds. I want to say “it was just luck” but I finally had the right person read my resume and was able to convey my skills/experiences in the interview well. It sounds like you’re doing what you can–I doubt these people are lying to you. Just keep applying and I’ll bet you’ll be perfect for a job that’s just around the corner.

    8. Pinkie Pie Chart*

      Anyone who calls you telling you to look for future openings is indeed very interested. If you see something that comes up, apply and then give your contact a heads up. That can short circuit some of the rigamarole you have to go through. Take heart that you *are* getting interviews and you *are* killing them and you *are* AWESOME!

      I recently went through a similar thing. Made it to the final two, other person was offered and accepted. Less than 3 weeks later, they called me and asked me if I was still interested in working with them and that they had a new job opening. I know it’s depressing when you can’t take that last step, but it will work out eventually.

  23. Malory Archer*

    It’s my last day at my summer internship! My manager and I had a great conversation last week, I got a lot of positive feedback and based on what he said it sounds like I have an open invite to come back after I graduate next spring (it’s not like a finance/consulting deal where there’s a specific offer on the table that I’d have to take or leave). I said I’d like to maintain some (very limited) level of involvement during the school year, which is something my team had been pushing for previously, so things are definitely ending on a good note.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can best maintain the relationship with the company/stay involved without overextending myself while I’m in school, and also keeping my options open? I did make it clear that I’d have to keep it very limited for now especially since I’ll be recovering from surgery and starting classes again. It’s a very interesting company and I like the people A LOT – but since it’s a rapidly changing environment and there’s no formal offer I also don’t want to close myself off to other options. I’m thankful to be in such a great position and don’t want to screw it up so I’d love any advice :)

    1. Bee*

      I don’t know how you can keep in touch work wise, but make sure to keep them updated of your school progress or just drop an email now and then so they don’t forget you!

    2. fposte*

      Can you be more specific about what you mean by limited involvement? Is it an hourly job or volunteering, and is there a specific project or goal that you might be involved with?

      1. Malory Archer*

        We’ve talked about it in terms of having me work on projects that could be done entirely on my own time and remotely (thus eliminating the need for my attendance at any meetings or having to rework my schedule). I’m currently paid hourly. For example, one of the things we talked about was building a more formal relationship between the company and my school for recruiting purposes.

        I’m mostly concerned about not getting stuck in a commitment to a certain number of hours, and being able to say no to tasks. (The project manager I work with a lot, who is not my manager, frequently gives me more menial things to do, which is fine while I’m a full time intern but I don’t want to be writing emails or creating agendas for him while I’m in school.)

        1. Dawn*

          I totally think you should email whoever would be assigning you tasks once you have settled in for your first week or two of school and outline *extremely clearly* what level of commitment you’re comfortable with. So you can figure out which classes are gonna be tough and get a handle on how much time you’re going to have to commit to your studies.

          Send a really friendly informative email like “Hey Tawanda, I’m settled in at school and right now I can comfortably handle X hours of work for you guys a (week/month/whatever). I’ll have two big papers coming due the week of (date) and (date) so I have to block off those weeks now so I can work on them. Really looking forward to staying in touch with you (end email on a note of how great it was to work with them etc etc)”

          1. fposte*

            This is excellent. Do this.

            From my standpoint, as somebody who relies on students for a lot of work, I’m fine with some irregularity of schedule, but I have to know what I could count on you for. Dawn’s answer articulates what you *can* do, and that’s why it’s great.

          2. Malory Archer*

            I like this a lot too! The only complicating factor – which HR is currently sorting out – is whether they decided to “extend” my internship status, and have me keep my computer and whatnot while I’m dormant, which would make me feel a little more obligated to start working sooner/more. But that’s mostly my own anxiety, I guess.

            1. Dawn*

              You ain’t obligated to do jack shit till you get your school stuff sorted out. Finishing school is priority #1- you’ve got the rest of your life for work to be top priority!

        2. College Career Counselor*

          Do they want you to be a recruiting ambassador among your peers? You could always loop your career services recruiting folks into the conversation and see if it makes sense to do an info session/presentation on campus with the company recruiter AND you. Just a thought..

          1. Malory Archer*

            Yup, we’ve definitely talked about that – it’s beneficial all around so I would do it even if they weren’t keeping me on. My manager graduated from the same b-school I’m at so he’s really excited about developing a better relationship.

        3. Another HRPro*

          My company does this with interns. I would recommend asking them what they see as the time commitment. Generally it is not too much. I believe our former interns work around 10 hours a week. The majority of the responsibilities include helping with campus recruiting event. In our case, we are very flexible with these individuals on their schedule.

  24. bassclefchick*

    The WORST interview experience ever (a final update):

    Last week, I posted about being called in for an interview the previous Thursday (so, 2 weeks ago now). The admin wanted it scheduled as soon as possible, so I set it up for the next day (Friday). Less than 24 hours to prepare for an interview isn’t ideal, but fine, I can do it.

    Three hours after setting up the interview, the admin calls me back and tells me that the hiring manager’s schedule has changed and they’ll have to reschedule my interview. OK, a bit odd, but this stuff happens.

    So I heard nothing from the admin on that Friday or the next Monday morning, so I called her last Monday afternoon to ask for an update. All she said at that point was that the hiring manager had not gotten back to her yet and they would let me know. Well, now the alarm bells are starting to ring and I’m getting extra nervous. But I figured I followed up once and that’s all I get.

    Did I ever hear back from them? No. Instead, this week I got the “thanks, but no thanks..we decided to go with a candidate with more experience” email. Um, what?! More experience? I met every single one of their requirements in the job description. I don’t know what more I could have done.

    So, I’m left to conclude that the admin royally screwed up and wasn’t supposed to call me in for an interview at all and I was just supposed to get the rejection email. Which really sucks. I mean, I get it. Mistakes happen. But own up to it. Don’t lie to me and tell me you’re going to reschedule the interview and then cop out and send me a crappy email saying I won’t be moving forward. I would have much rather gotten (and really, I kind of deserved) a phone call explaining the mistake and an apology. But at least they didn’t make me come in for an interview anyway if I had zero chance of getting hired.

    I’m trying to look at this as a bullet dodged because if this is how they operate at this stage of the hiring process, what would they be like to work with?! Job hunting sucks anyway, but this one? This one really hurt.

    1. H. Hog*

      I’m sorry this happened to you. Job hunting does suck, and this kind of thing is a big red flag. Be glad you are not working for people who can’t get their act together.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Meeting all their requirements doesn’t mean that someone else couldn’t have been more qualified, and that while the admin was waiting on rescheduling info, someone else got hired. I’d take it at face value and not assume there’s something nefarious going on here.

      1. Mimmy*

        While I agree with the first part about the requirements, I just think this process was handled sloppily. I don’t think it was intentional, but it doesn’t seem right to leave someone hanging like that. If you’re not going to reschedule after all, be upfront. Maybe I’m out of touch, JMHO.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Yeah, ideally there would have been a personalized email explaining what happened instead of a form rejection (and that’s certainly what I would have done) but I don’t think the way this went down is terribly unusual or outrageous in the scheme of things.

        2. AnonAnalyst*

          I agree. I think this was handled poorly. I am super wary of the last minute interview cancellation after having something similar happen to me twice. I pretty much expect to never hear back again when that happens. Just tell me that you’ve decided to move forward with other candidates, rather than saying “we need to reschedule” and disappearing or sending me a rejection later. That leaves a much worse impression of your organization with me as a candidate.

    3. Anie*

      That suuuucks! I was once on my way to an interview. An assistant called to reschedule because the person I was meeting “decided to leave early?” Umm, wut? Thanks but no thanks.

      2. OfficePrincess*

        I had one call to reschedule an interview right as I was parking my car in their lot. Gee, I’m so glad I got ready and fought traffic to have you call less than 20 minutes before our time. I ended up getting an offer before they ever called with a new time. Sorry but no.

        1. College Career Counselor*

          I was rear-ended once about two minutes out from a job interview. Granted, there was little to no damage, but I did have quite a bit of adrenaline going into that first meeting.

          1. BenAdminGeek*

            I once interviewed someone who’d just totaled his car driving over to our building. The first 15 minutes of the interview were a bit awkward as the poor guy sweated profusely and tried to compose himself and kept apologizing. Overall a good candidate, we hired him.

    4. Kasia*

      I think this is a pretty big over reaction. Theres nothing telling you that the admin screwed up. She was probably told to call you to schedule the interview and then they needed to reschedule and they hired someone in the mean time. Or maybe they were waiting to hear back from someone they already offered the job to and didn’t want to waste your time with an interview but also didn’t want to reject you yet. Who knows.

      And I’m going to guess the “went with someone with more experience” email was a form email and I don’t think you should take it so personally.

      Job searching does suck but as someone who has been on both sides of the coin you really need to understand that you’re just a candidate to them until they hire you and you’re really not entitled to much. Not everything is personal.

        1. bassclefchick*

          All very good points! Thanks, everyone for the perspective! It just seemed REALLY odd to me. At least I got SOME sort of response out of them instead of wondering when they were going to reschedule. I’ve been reading this blog long enough to know that nothing is certain until an offer is presented. Time to move on and look for the next opportunity!

      2. Anonsie*

        I agree. Rather than assuming the admin screwed up, I would assume this was the poor admin having to be the middleman in an awkward position. They decided to interview you and asked her to do that, then something changed and they asked her to hold off, then they went with someone else and told her to just not schedule you at all.

        I’m usually the middleman between the people I support and other departments, and I end up looking like a crazy person all the time. In my department they’ll be making decisions based on things I don’t want to broadcast, so I have to be very generic when changing the instructions I’m giving other people. Some folks seem to get it, but some people definitely do seem to just assume it’s some problem with me.

      3. Sunflower*

        Yea this is how I feel. Same thing happened to me. They called said they needed to reschedule the interview and would call back later to do so. I got an email a few hours later saying they wouldn’t be rescheduling because they hired someone. It all sucks but everything Kasia said is true. Don’t take it personally and just move on.

    5. Lizzy*

      I once had an admin assistant call me to set up a phone screener. I got back to his message a few hours later and he said that he has enough candidates to interview for now, but my credentials was great and maybe next time his org would reach out to me if another position opened up. Apparently, he was suppose to pick 10 candidates to phone screen and recommend 4-5 for his manager to interview in person, but mistakenly called 15 and decided whoever got back to him on a first-come-first-serve basis would get in the screening pool. Ugh. I’ve also shown up to interviews only to be told they filled the position already. Man, was I bitter about that!

      The reality is the hiring process is riddled with human error. It is likely you were in consideration at some point, but the candidate they really wanted got in before you and they decided to cancel the rest of the hiring process. It sucks, but it happens. As the AMA motto goes: You just have to move on.

    6. YaH*

      I emailed my resume, had my personal contact put in a good word, and waited. A week or so later, I get an email from the person for whom I’d be working- “Thank you for coming in to interview for this position, but we have decided to go in a different direction.” Erm… I didn’t interview? I just responded by thanking them for letting me know, and I’m relieved to have inadvertently discovered their disorganization before it was too late.

      Interestingly, there’s another opening for the exact same title currently posted. (There are only 4 of these positions.)

  25. H. Hog*

    I don’t know what to do about my situation. Without any kind of forewarning, my boss gave me a rather bad annual review. I was warned that if my rating dropped anymore, I would be written up. I believe I was being punished for trying to not engage in personal conversations with him. He talks endlessly about his hobby to anyone who will listen. Because there is not enough work here (for anyone), I can’t use the method Allison recommends (“Say, Wakeen, I’d like to chat, but I’ve got to get these TPS reports done ASAP.”) If you try to change the subject, he brings it right back. If you get up to go to the bathroom, he remembers where he left off. Basically, an annoying narcissist.
    So I started semi-ignoring him, or giving noncommittal comments. In my review he said I was “isolating myself from the rest of the dept.” and twisted it around so that my review says I’m not a team player. Also, I complained about getting a new telephone (I was in a particularly bad mood that day–my mom had had a bad fall and ended up in hospital, which I explained to him. His response? We all have our problems). So on my review, he put that I don’t adapt well to new situations in the office.
    Never once did he approach me to discuss his “concerns.” He also said that a senior member of staff “never sees me anymore” and for that reason, I must now work half a day at the front desk (it’s a library) and share my desk with a person I absolutely despise (and who is now boss’s New Best Friend). No one else in the library has to share a desk. Some people even have their own offices (and not just the librarians–the assistants).
    I feel that I am being punished and targeted for this kind of treatment. IN the meantime, my partner thinks I should approach that senior member and mention that my boss said “he never sees me anymore” at the desk, and that I’m concerned and would like to discuss it. Senior member and my boss are also friends (like, for 25 years). I’m afraid doing that will backfire.
    My plan is to apply for another job as soon as one becomes available. Not only for the above reasons, but because I am bored stiff at this job and I’m not learning any new skills or gaining any valuable experience.
    Just wondering what you think. Should I just let this go? Should I approach senior member of staff? Should I mention it to anyone that I’m the only person sharing a desk in the library?
    This is really upsetting me and I don’t even want to come to work anymore.
    Thank you for listening.

      1. Turanga Leela*

        Yeah, H.Hog, if it’s not getting in the way of your work, you probably have to embrace your boss’s hobby (and conversations about the hobby). Think of it as a new job responsibility.

        But I’m sorry you were blindsided by the review—that sucks, and it sounds like work is just a lousy place to be right now. Hang in there.

        1. H. Hog*

          Thank you. That’s what I’m trying to do, just keep a positive attitude while I’m here and keep looking around.

      2. H. Hog*

        Well, I wasn’t exactly ignoring him, as in pretending he’s a ghost or something. I just didn’t fully turn around in my seat when he was addressing me. Or I would just not really engage in the conversation. Honestly, I just couldn’t take it anymore. IT’s the same stories over and over and over…for four years now.

        1. Christy*

          This desk-sharing–are you sharing the front desk? Or is desk-sharer moving into your existing desk part time? I’m confused about the logistics here.

          1. H. Hog*

            We are also sharing the front desk.
            Backstory: Mr. Desk Sharer never really had a desk, because the position he was hired to fill was previously part time. He was the only staff person on duty after the rest of us went home at night. So he didn’t really need a desk. So the desk I was using was considered “shared” with whoever held the night shift, even though that person does not have any personal objects (such as photos), nor do they have any work-related papers. I do have work-related papers–part of my job requires keeping binders of various types, plus supplies for book-labeling, etc.

            The thing is, there is a lot wasted space behind the front desk, including a desk that supposedly belongs to my boss and is full of old paperwork and dried-up supplies, plus a bookcase that is full of (you guessed it) old paperwork and dried-up supplies. Things could probably be moved around and consolidated, but I think it has less to do with organization than it does to do with “showing me who is boss.”

            Oh, by the way, Mr. Desk Sharer’s mother is in administration in this institution. Favoritism, maybe? Just possibly?

            1. Christy*

              I’m probably not getting the whole picture here, but I’m not entirely seeing how this is “showing you who is boss”. Could you take the initiative to clean up behind the desk so that you don’t have to share space anymore? It seems like that way, you could still have your own desk and you’d be getting rid of something that’s probably been an issue for a while.

              1. H. Hog*

                It’s a bit hard to picture, but I can’t clean the boss’s desk or the shelf unit. The boss goes apeshit when anybody touches anything, even if it’s been sitting there for eons and covered in dust bunnies.

                I think he suffers from obsessive-compulsive disorder in addition to being a narcissist. For example, he has his own two-drawer file cabinet, which he locks at night. After he locks it, he pulls on the drawers five times each to make sure they’re really locked.

                If you move anything around here, he gets really upset.

                I’ve been told by a coworker that the staff in this place really, really dislikes change of any kind.

                1. Beancounter in Texas*

                  I think we have the same boss.

                  I used to work late because I’d be interrupted so much during the day that finally, after 5pm I could focus and get something finished. Nope! Boss would find me and reiterate a story I’d heard numerous times before, demanding my entire attention.

                  Once he expounded on his disbelief that some companies let employees bring dogs into the office! Dogs! He could never let that happen here – it’s too unprofessional and nothing would get done. And the very next morning, I sh*t you not, his dogs escaped his yard, so he brought them both into the office(!!!). I stopped staying late since he would just monopolize my time anyway.

                  And while The Boss isn’t OCD, he hoards papers. I kid you not, there is a folder labeled “XXX’s Taxes ’75 & ’76” taking up prime real estate in the filing cabinets here, next to file drawers full of The Boss’ personal papers, like folders labelled “E., A. & H.’s Trip To San Antonio 7/15/2002” and it’s full of MapQuest directions, hotel reservations, and a dated brochure about the hotel amenities. Meanwhile, files in which we actually need to store in file cabinets get packed into bankers boxes and files older than me, and never looked at, occupy file drawers. I feel your pain H. Hog.

    2. Ragnelle*

      H. Hog, sorry you are going through this. The whole situation sounds demoralizing. Working the front desk should never be used as a “punishment”–it should be the focal point of a library’s customer service, and treating it like that leads to disgruntled, burned-out employees and less-than-stellar customer service.

      In my experience with people like this, my best advice is to keep your head down until your boss finds a new person to be upset with. Does your boss tend to hold grudges for a long time? Things may change soon(ish) into something you can live with. Use your free time to work on job applications.

      If you have a good relationship with the senior member, you might consider asking about why they feel they haven’t seen you lately, but it definitely could backfire. I would recommend talking to your boss either in person or by email to say that you were somewhat surprised by the review you received and would like to discuss ways you can improve your performance. Such a discussion will hopefully encourage him to quantify what he wants from you and let you know what he expects so the situation doesn’t get worse.

      Finally, as boring as it may be, can you engage him in conversation when he starts talking to you? Ask questions about his hobby? Talk about someone you know who also does that hobby? Think of him as a particularly trying patron rather than your boss, maybe. I hope the situation gets resolved soon, one way or another.

    3. fposte*

      Well, your boss sounds deeply annoying. However, I don’t think sharing a desk is an issue worth going over a boss’s head about–after all, at least one other person does have to share a desk, so it’s not only you, and you haven’t described any reason why it’s a problem for your work productivity. I also don’t see any reason to assume that favoritism is why your boss has his job, given that it sounds like there’s overstaffing generally, since you say you don’t have much work to do either (unless you’re also part of the family :-)). Whether family stresses give you an out for a bad attitude moment depends on what you actually said and what your attitude is like otherwise; doing desk duty also doesn’t seem out of line as a library expectation since it’s not making it impossible for you to do your other work, regardless of the motivation.

      I think, though, that you and your boss have kind of had it with each other, and that that’s really hard to pull out of, especially for the junior side of the dyad. I think your plan to move on is a good one, and in the meantime I would, for your own training and morale, experiment with letting the annoyance go–let the boss natter, bring your brightest smile to the front desk and your shared desk, and mentally move on.

      1. Christy*

        fposte, you’re the best. I agree with everything you said, and I couldn’t have put it this well.

      2. H. Hog*

        No, my boss doesn’t have his job because of this other guy’s mom. He’s been here for years and years. The Desk Sharer was foisted on our department by the mom. He’s highly incompetent and no matter how many times we try to show him how to do things according to library procedure, he does it for a little while and then just does whatever the heck he feels like doing, whether it’s incorrect or not. My boss has stopped correcting him or talking to him about his errors (willful or not), and I think their friendship has impacted my boss’s judgment.

        That said, no, it’s not unreasonable to work the front desk. The thing is, our regular desks are located within 10 feet of the front desk, so it’s no problem to get up and walk to the desk and wait on a patron. There is another (peer) coworker in our department who is NOT being made to sit at the front desk or share HER desk.

        I’d say my attitude is generally friendly. No patrons have ever complained about my service, I get along with everyone in the library, I have faculty friendships and friends in other departments.

        But you’re right–I think the relationship between me and my boss is over. I probably will not be going over his head about the desk issue.

        1. fposte*

          In general, “I’m not being treated fairly” isn’t something to go over a boss’s head about unless it’s illegal or it’s a demonstrable pay/benefits issue that the boss won’t discuss. If the boss starts being unfair in a way that’s illegal, or causing problems in your getting your work done in a way that is a problem for the library, that’s when it’s worth going to somebody else.

          It sounds like you’re in an old-school academic backwater. On the upside, you’ve got a job that would have been trimmed back at a lot of schools, since I don’t know anybody at my school who doesn’t have enough to do; that can keep you fed while you find a position that allows you to grow the way you want.

        2. peanut butter kisses*

          I worked in a library department for over a decade where we all had to share desks except for the boss. It was not a ploy to get at employees, it was just that our office was too small. And you said that there are four employees and just three desks? I think you just might have lost a coin toss.

          I would recommend getting on various library committees to network. You can also have the added bonus of committee work that needs to be done with high concentration so you can let you boss know that you need some time to do xyz and are unable to talk at the moment if you need to carve out some quiet time.

          1. H. Hog*

            I’m not sure what you mean by “library committees.” Do you mean in the public system? I am working in a private library at a college. There aren’t any library committees here.

            There are plenty of empty desks around here (including the one I mentioned that is full of junk). I think it is just easier for them to make me share mine than to clean one of them out and move it into the available space that is here. Which is why this feels unfair to me.

            1. fposte*

              Oh, it’s absolutely unfair. It’s just that “unfair” isn’t the same thing as “picking on you” or “worthy of going over your boss’s head” or even “worth being annoyed about.” One of the important workplace skills is understanding what kinds of unfairness are real problems and what aren’t–for both you and for your workplace.

              Just to be clear, though: you’ve offered to clean out one of the empty desks–not the one your boss’s stuff is in–and your boss has said no to that? Then yeah, that’s a territorial thing you’re not going to get past.

              1. H. Hog*

                No, I haven’t offered. The desks are in various locations throughout the library. Some old-timers have told me that there used to be a bigger staff, and of course, through computers, many jobs just fell by the wayside over the years. They’re just sort of sitting there, with junk piled on them. But they are not in this department.

                I’m just going to give up on this issue. I know everyone reading this probably thinks I am just out of college. I have been working more than 30 years, however. Maybe it’s not worth being annoyed about. Believe me, I am trying not to let it get to me. I’m really trying.

                1. Christy*

                  Well then, if the desks aren’t near where your coworkers are, it makes sense that they want you to sit with coworkers.

                  And you definitely don’t sound like you’re just out of college. I would have pegged you as having that much work experience.

                2. fposte*

                  If you really want a desk, I’d ask about clearing one off, then. If you think you’re getting a message that it’s important to be with your colleagues, I’d let it go.

                  And I certainly don’t blame you for finding this annoying and depressing. While there’s more support-giving in the open thread, I still think of this as an advice blog and tend to offer possible solutions. If mostly you just wanted some acknowledgment of the suck, I can get on board there. The whole place sounds pretty grim to me, and as somebody in the field I also think it’s pretty disappointing.

                3. Not So NewReader*

                  BTDT. Not with a desk issue but with another issue, it just was in my face every time I turned around.

                  This stuff can eat at a person and get them out the door prematurely, before they have a job lined up. You may or may not be in a position to leave suddenly.

                  Here is something to consider: You are saying there are a few messy abandoned desks around and, yet, no one has anything to do. I am willing to bet there are other messes that can be cleaned up and no one is doing that either. Using fresh eyes look around. I think you will come to the conclusion that these people WANT it this way. If they wanted the place neater and more organized it would be, they seem to have enough people to do this tidying. So I must conclude they are happy with the messes they have.

                  Here is the deal: How long have you worked there? How long have those messes been there?

                  Our town has a little library. We had someone come (an advocate) to show us how to maximize our space and to make the library more modern and inviting. Those little messes you are talking about- she found every. single. one of them in our library that we had. She said they had to be revamped- find places for the stuff, sort it, whatever actions necessary to empty out the area.

                  Things don’t get cleaned up until someone wants them cleaned up. No one (among the leadership) wants it cleaned up in your setting. This is an important thing to observe. When you are interviewing at other jobs, look around. What do you see? If you see piles of clutter here and there, think of it as a yellow flag at least. Healthier, happier workplaces try to keep work areas neat.

                  Lastly, this “person” is pulling you down. She has you focused on desks and other stuff rather than focusing on your career, your growth and other longer term things that are actually important. She is a waste of your time- I cannot think of an uglier thing to say. No human being should be a waste of time to another human being- but here we have it.

                  We have a choice, we can let these people and their petty head games fill up our time/brain space OR we can build a workable plan and get out of these places. Don’t let her pull you down to her level.

            2. peanut butter kisses*

              At my library, each one of us is required to be on a committee of some sort, either in the library or in the university. We have emergency action committees, signage committees, policy committees, holiday party committees, etc. It is annoying as all get out. Over 400 employees and each and every one of us has to be on at least one committee.

              1. H. Hog*

                There were many committees at the last college I worked for (though I wasn’t in the library there). But here, there don’t seem to be any. At least, they are never mentioned in the daily emails we get from administration. Odd.

                Thank you all for listening and for the reality check. I’ve decided to stop letting this make me miserable and start thinking about what I want the future to look like.

  26. OneWomanShow*

    Uncooperative colleagues and technology, sympathy welcome

    With both the CEO and COO out on vacation this week, it’s been one hell of a ride for OneWomanShow!

    Please permit me to summarize the acts of unprofessionalism and rudeness I’ve encountered this week:

    • Prior to leaving for vacation, the CEO ordered me to send out a press release regarding a certification the organization earned recently. I did as asked and was subsequently contacted by a local reporter who wanted detailed information to flesh out the press release. I then asked the person left in charge who would be the most appropriate source for the reporter’s story and reached out to said person. This woman decides she doesn’t trust my request and emails me back with a CC to her boss, who is neither reading nor responding to work emails for the entire week. As a means of asserting my need to secure the interview for the reporter, I email HR and CC both the CEO and COO to explain the urgency of the request and my confusion about the lack of cooperation, especially given that the CEO wanted the press release sent while he was out of the office with limited access to technology. Following that, I have sent another email asking the difficult colleague what I can do to make her more comfortable speaking with the reporter in a timely fashion. As of this time, I have received no responses to my emails. Thoughts????

    • My laptop has crashed more than 20 times in the past three weeks. I have placed two tickets with IT about the problems and spent 90 minutes waiting for a diagnosis. The network administrator who examined my computer assured me that he checked for viruses, compatibility with program updates, and I should not have any further issues. Since that time, my computer has crashed from “bad pool header” and “IRQL_not_less_or_equal,” among others.

    Okay, I’ve vented a bit and would appreciate any advice, commiseration or general comments.

    Thanks for taking time to read this!

    1. Cucumberzucchini*

      Sounds like it’s time to schedule a meeting with Senor Margarita!

      Explaining you’re confused by lack of cooperation, depending on how you worded, probably didn’t do you any favors with difficult woman.

      1. OneWomanShow*

        Thanks for the response!

        I phrased my confusion as it relates directly to the CEO’s instructions and my specific job title and description. I also included HR in the email in the hopes of receiving some backing such as “yes, OneWomanShow has complete oversight on media relations. Please coordinate an interview time with her.” No such luck as of yet.

        Oh, and I will be having a very generous pour of wine sometime soon!

    2. GOG11*

      Your venting is so poised and your points are so well-articulated. No advice, just admiration.

    3. Jen RO*

      Maybe failing RAM? My computer was doing similar stuff (crashing multiple times a day with BSOD) and it turned out to be a faulty RAM module.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      I guess your IT department is super swamped? Scanning for viruses and program compatibility isn’t enough for this type of situation. The best thing to do would be the isolate the variables: swap out the hard drive for an identical laptop model and see if it might be faulty (non-hard-drive) hardware… or finding a definitely-working laptop and just copy your files and programs over and see if the issue persists… or log in as another user and see if it’s user-account-specific or not. Or how about they Google the issue? Seems to be that second error is to do with some bad drivers installed… checking the driver versions against another laptop that’s definitely working would be a good place to start…

      I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they’re swamped and overworked instead of incompetent… either way, I’m sorry you get the brunt of it!

    5. Not So NewReader*

      It might not work in your setting, but with the places I have worked, I would either phone or go see the person in question and ask the same question that I did in email. I would frame is as “Don’t shoot the messenger, but CEO wants X and I could use your help with this piece of it.” Well, I would clean that sentence up A LOT, I am just giving you the general idea of what I would say.

      But it sounds like you have the basics covered, so the reporter can just go with that. And you have an email trail showing that people did not respond to your request. There have been plenty of times where I have seen stuff go out that I knew it could have been better. In some cases, though, it was amazing anything got done on it. I’m not saying that is right, I am just saying that is the way it is.

  27. Bekx*

    We have construction going on at my company. Since January, I’ve had to replace 1 tire (screw in the sidewall), patch another tire (metal shard in tread) and today my brand new car with 1000 miles on it alerted me that my tire pressure is low. It might be a fluke, but if I have to replace my tire or patch it up.

    Do you think it’s acceptable for me to complain to facilities and ask for them to pay it or at least half? I’ve complained the other two times, and they told me that the construction crew cleans up every day but I’ve seen nails and screws in the parking lot before when I walk.

    I’m not the only one with this problem — the owner of the company had a screw in his sidewall too!

    1. SwissTeapot*

      Maybe a few pictures of nails and screws lying around on the parking lot will convince the facilities otherwise.

      1. Sadsack*

        Right, take photos, then take whoever told you they are cleaning up for walk to show him in person. I’d be pretty mad about it if I were you, too.

        1. Bekx*

          I’ll take a look on my afternoon walk! Thanks guys, can’t believe I didn’t think of that!

  28. AnotherFed*

    Just for fun, what are the stereotypes/reputations in your industry about certain jobs/sub-professions within that industry?

    I work in an engineering organization as a mechanical engineer. Here’s what we seem to have for stereotypes:
    Mechanicals: Will break anything you let them near. Have to be able see/visualize a problem to deal with it.
    Electrical: The nerd/dork of the engineers. Think mechanical and civil engineers are barely engineers.
    Civil: Either very artsy, or washed out of the ME program/needed a technical degree (we don’t have any traditional civil engineering work in my organization).
    Systems Engineering: Management. May or may not have ever had to build anything ever.
    Software/Comp Sci: Input cheetos and Mountain Dew, receive code. Do not question exactly what the software is doing or they will actually tell you in far more detail than you ever wanted.

    1. hermit crab*

      On the other hand, we geologists tend to lump all engineers together in one category, and make fun of them as a group. :)

      1. AnotherFed*

        You geologists are the ones always asking if we’re having a gneiss day, and telling us not to take it for granite. :)

        Kidding aside, I’ve never met a geologist who didn’t have a poster with those puns on it, but the physicists are the ones who are completely nuts about puns.

        1. hermit crab*

          Mine are actually on a t-shirt, not a poster. But hey, we all have our faults. (Get it, faults?)

          And my fiance is a physicist. You are right about them!

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Mechanicals – the best and most important engineers
      Electricals – overpaid just to run an analysis on a few T-lines
      Civils – barely engineers. Didn’t even take thermo. It’s just not that complicated. . .it’s dirt and water.
      Systems -schedulers
      Software-the people who take the cheap, working tools and replace them with overly complex, broken systems that require twice the staff to run

      Guess what my background is. (And before someone gets offended, this is in jest. Everyone’s job is important.)

      1. ConstructionHR*

        Civils: Only two things to learn: 1) you can’t push a rope; 2) poop flows downhill.; but it still takes four years to learn that.

    3. AndersonDarling*

      I always heard that if you give a widget to an engineer and a mechanic and ask them to fix it, the engineer will measure it, find it’s water displacement, conduct experiments to find the metal composition, then draw up plans to recreate it over the next year with the help of 10 staff members.
      The mechanic will look for the serial number and order a new one.

      1. QualityControlFreak*

        Many years ago, in a Security Assistance Management class, I heard the following definition. “Engineer’s Quote: What it would cost to do the job in heaven.”

      2. jamlady*

        My father was an aerospace engineer and my husband is an aircraft maintainer. This is too accurate hahaha

    4. AdAgencyChick*

      “Creatives” (yup, “creative” is a noun in advertising — although I guess the larger world now knows that due to Mad Men?), that is, graphic designers and copywriters: flaky, airy-fairy, never in at work before 10 AM.
      Account executives (the Pete Campbells of the world): slave drivers, anal-retentive
      Editors: REALLY anal-retentive

    6. GlorifiedPlumber*

      Oooo good one! Sorry, this one will have a cynical lens to it… it is my day off, the bachelor party starts in 4 hours, and I am feeling snarky! You can guess which one I am…

      Chemical/Process: The reason you have a job. The only ones who know what is going on with the big picture and why you are doing what you are doing! Better get them on your project early and befriend one so you can be kept in the loop! Also, often accused of blowing the budget because… the budget was based on something made up by the PM to win the job and wouldn’t change order the client because… conflict is hard.

      Mechanical: Pretty solid folks, definitely second in charge with the process engineers to keep the peace over the other engineers. In charge of all the HVAC… thank goodness. Also have a good idea what is going on and why we’re doing it. Help the chem E’s fight the PM’s.

      Electrical: Where is my equipment list! I can’t do anything until you tell me my pump horsepower! I’m going to tell the PM I’m constrainted! What’s FEL 0? What do you mean you don’t know how big the pump is yet?? Also, “Conduit… everywhere you want to be!” (TM) You know that famous Return of the Jedi scene where the Millennium Falcon flies into the tunnel? If that was a real process plant it would have T-boned a field routed 3/4″ conduit about 30 feet in. Electrical engineers are future PM material at my firm…

      I&C Controls Engineers: Data sheets, data sheets, and more data sheets! Those who have to make your process work…

      Structural: He/She who must coordinate. He/She with whom you must coordinate. Remember, the steel gets built first. Trust me, the client will perceive your pipe as hitting their steel, not their steel hitting your pipe (even though that is what USUALLY happens)! Also, has no idea what is going on in the process… “I just put steel up… I don’t actually know what is in the pipes, that is your job!”

      Civil: Only show up when we’re doing anything OUTSIDE… always seem to know exactly what is going on despite not being in the loop, get their stuff done immediately, and then peace out. As far as I know, the civil engineers at my firm are actually Seal Team 6. Every time they show up, it’s by surprise in the middle of the night, they kill some terrorists, and then peace out… when you wake up, all the civil scope is designed, ready for review, and never has any RFI’s.

      Comp/Sci: Not actually engineers… wah wah, I said it. Shots fired. #ThesePeopleAreNotEngineers

      Industrial Engineers: I used to call them imaginary engineers… and then they saved our butts on projects. Now I love them… the GOOD future PM’s come from this cadre.

      Architects: Not actually engineers… but god forbid I have to explain code to a client. That’s what the architects are for. The architects are kind of the Delta Force of my firm. No one knows exactly what they do, but they seem to have lots of fancy equipment, seem to know what is going on, seem to show up when you need them, work behind the scenes, and all the site master plans seem to work out.

      Client Engineers: Ugh… I have a factory to run. Go away.

      Former Engineers Now Turned Management: “So I told the client we’d do this poorly defined project with lean principals for 30% less money… also told them the end product would be 30% cheaper! I’d love to stick around and help you actually map this workflow I sold them, but, I have to jet off to the next client and give my “lean speech” again! Good luck!”

    7. Ife*

      “Do not question exactly what the software is doing or they will actually tell you in far more detail than you ever wanted.”

      Lol, this is true for me. I have two settings when describing code — either “It does that thing you wanted,” or “…And then on line 23, I set the temp variable to ‘1’…” I’m working on finding the middle ground!

    8. Ezri*

      I respond better to sour cream and cheddar chips + Mountain Dew. :) The software one does apply to me overall, but I’m the only one in my office you could really say that about.

    9. Beancounter in Texas*

      Love it! My brother double majored in mechanical engineering and food science (so he could build machines for food production) and works on restoring a Model T in his spare time. He also went to a cotton gin show and when asked by a salesperson, “Wouldn’t you prefer to have a machine that doesn’t have any moving parts?”, he couldn’t help but correct him, “It’s not a machine. It’s an object.” So that’s my stereotype of engineers in general. :)

    10. BenAdminGeek*

      I enjoy telling engineers that “All engineering is pretty much the same thing. You just engineer stuff up.” That’s usually good for about a 15-minute, very patient, detailed explanation of why I am incorrect and what various engineers do. I’ve found you can repeat this as many times as you like.

      1. AnotherFed*

        Yeah, that’s bait we’ll fall for every single time. We’ve all been traumatized by one of the church ladies/mom’s friends/friend’s parent asking “You’re majoring in engineering? So, you’ll work on, like, uh, trains… and stuff?”

    11. Oranges*

      Back End Devs: can juggle insane amounts of data. Do not ask to make a web site look good. Or even let them near html and Css. It never ends well.

      Front end Devs: they aren’t real developers anyone can make a web site. HTML doesn’t even have logic.

      Ux/UI: scary practitioners of dark magic who make the users do what they want them to do.

      1. Oranges*

        Forgot to add in front end Devs: JavaScript doesn’t count either since it doesn’t even have classes.

  29. Log Lady*

    I must know if I’m being a party pooper, or if this is as awkward as this seems to me. Someone who works part time here found out that our owner’s wedding anniversary is coming up, so she’s coming in today on her day off to throw him and his wife (who’s here doing some work for us) a surprise wedding anniversary party with cake and gifts and a card. We don’t do birthdays around here, and it’s not even a milestone anniversary, it’s like their 33rd or something. It just feels awkward and kinda inappropriate. Am I wrong?

    1. OfficePrincess*

      That’s just awkward. I suppose since it’s today, there’s no time to get her to cancel but yikes. Even in an office that does birthdays I feel like a surprise anniversary party would be weird.

      1. Log Lady*

        There was no way to get her to cancel it back when she started planning it, I don’t think. I don’t have any authority over her, and my manager thought it was weird, but she’s out of the office today and was like, I’m not her manager and I’m washing my hands of this. And she was glad she didn’t have to be part of it.

        Some other people think she’s sucking up, and I don’t think she is, I think she just really likes to throw these sort of celebrations for people, but god, there’s a time and a place for it, and this is neither.

    3. Ad Astra*

      Sounds pretty weird to me. I think it’s strange when anyone who’s not married to me remembers my anniversary.

      1. Log Lady*

        She remembers all the dates. My birthday is coming up next week and I just remembered that she knows and I don’t want her to know now.

      2. Cath in Canada*

        Same here. My anniversary is for me and my husband to celebrate together – the idea that other people might feel obliged to send a card is a bit odd. I always feel weird getting a card from my parents and one of my aunties!

    6. Katie the Fed*

      That is so weird. Anniversaries are between the spouses – I never even do anything for my family members for theirs. It’s their anniversary.

      That’s really, really weird.

    7. LBK*

      That’s really bizarre. Even if it were a milestone, anniversary parties are supposed to be thrown by the people in the couple to invite people into their celebration – it’s not like a birthday where it’s more about other people celebrating you.

      1. Judy*

        Hmm, we apparently have done it wrong, then.

        My sister and I have planned my parents 25th, 40th and 50th anniversary, and will be overjoyed to plan my parents’ 60th party in 6 years if we get there. To my knowledge, those are the only anniversary parties they have had.

        1. LBK*

          Oops, I shouldn’t have said “supposed to be thrown by” – I meant “are usually thrown by”. I think it’s less common (but obviously not wrong or gauche) to throw an anniversary party for someone else compared to, say, a birthday party, which is pretty normal to have thrown by someone else.

        2. The IT Manager*

          I’m with you. The couple doesn’t have to plan it themselves, but I’d expect family or very close friends to throw a anniversary party – not co-workers. An anniversary party, like a marriage, should be kept separate from work.

        3. TCO*

          Anniversary parties by/with family and friends are entirely appropriate, especially for big milestones, and particularly when hosted by the kids who were the fruit of that relationship. Workplace anniversary parties, on the other hand, are really weird.

    8. MashaKasha*

      No, not that I can tell you’re not wrong. Weird and intrusive and did I say weird? very weird.

    10. stellanor*

      Yeah that’s weird.

      My office doesn’t throw parties for anybody for anything ever, the most we ever do is bring cupcakes for the immediate team on a birthday.

      One of my coworkers decided to throw a surprise baby shower with a custom made cake and decorations and gifts for another employee, and solicited donations for all that stuff (which I ignored, of course). The honoree called in to work on the day of the shower. Oops.

    11. Betty (the other Betty)*

      Not to mention that no one except the couple really knows what is going on in the marriage. Maybe an anniversary is a cause for a big celebration, but maybe it’s not. Awkward.

      2. Another English Major*

        I didn’t even think of that, but it’s a very good point. Even if the marriage is great it’s still awkward and strange for an employee to throw an anniversary party, especially a surprise one!

    12. Anonsie*

      I surprise myself with this, but I have unpacked my pearls from my jewelry box so I may clutch them in response to this idea.

    13. Sunflower*

      This is really awkward! Honestly I’m shocked her manager didn’t say anything to her like ‘that’s so nice but we don’t really do that here’

    14. peanut butter kisses*

      You are not being a party pooper, you just have the common sense to know the culture around your office. Cakes and gifts from a part timer? Awkward. You might want to sidle up to her and put a quiet hint in her ear about it.

      1. peanut butter kisses*

        Also, please give an update to this when you can. I am curious how this was received and handled by the couple.

        1. afiendishthingy*

          Seconded!!!! My parents frequently forget their own wedding anniversary. I could see my sisters and me throwing them a party for a milestone anniversary, but definitely not a surprise party, and an employee doing it?? super weird. I must know more. How big is your office, do you know if others thought it was weird? They must have.

          I bet the happy couple is VERY surprised though. Awkward.

    15. Windchime*

      Super awkward. I thought it was weird when my (then)mother-in-law used to give us a card on our wedding anniversary. In my family of origin, the wedding anniversary was always just celebrated between the two people who were married. I can’t imagine celebrating my boss’ anniversary.

  30. RG*

    Early again! OK, so I mentioned last week that I saw a job opening for a patent agent at another law firm. I reached out to a partner that I’ve met before and that I have reason to believe I would work with either directly or indirectly. I wanted to reach out to him for some insights because to apply you only send in a letter of interest (I’m assuming that they would then contact you if they were interested and wanted to view your resume). I worked on the letter of interest this weekend and I just have a few tweaks to make.

    I planned to submit the letter even without hearing back from him. However, I did hear back from him yesterday, and it seems like we’re trying to schedule some time to talk. I still plan to submit the letter this weekend. I’d really appreciate it if someone could confirm, basically, that this is the right approach. I’d also appreciate any unique questions you’ve asked or been asked in an informational interview. Well maybe unique isn’t the right word, but any questions outside of the usual that you or the other person liked.

    Thanks!

    1. Graciosa*

      Ugh.

      Please don’t focus on being “unique.” This is the kind of thing that leads to people sending chocolates or picture frames or singing telegrams to the hiring manager.

      Instead, I would be yourself. Your work self rather than your party self or hanging around the house on the weekend self, but still yourself.

      I hope that your work self is basically honest – which means you make sure that the partner knows that you are reaching out to him related to an open position with an active search. This may change what he is willing or able to share with you (or may not) but that’s fine. Honesty is more important than burning a bridge by making the partner feel you were less than forthcoming.

      I also hope your work self is curious about the position – what is the environment like, what would the work be like – and excited about the opportunity and its potential.

      Questions about these may not seem original, but again, that’s okay. You don’t want to be that weird candidate who asked what kind of a tree the firm would be.

      Good luck.

      1. RG*

        Well, when I said unique, I meant in terms in good questions to ask. I didn’t mean trying to “be unique,” and I’d like to think I have enough common sense not send people that I might work with weird gifts.

        1. Graciosa*

          “Unique” questions are going to produce the same sense that you’re trying too hard to be original instead of being yourself. Alison has some good suggestions for questions if you search, but honestly, as a hiring manager, I have heard them before.

          Please understand that this is not a problem. There is a range of standard questions that candidates tend to ask, which is fine. I am more impressed by people who ask about the work, performance standards, the culture, my management style etc., than people who ask *only* about pay and benefits. Other turn-offs include “When can I start?” or “What will it take to put me in this job?” or anything that sounds like it’s coming from a used car salesman.

          I’m glad you have enough common sense not to send weird gifts. No insult was intended in my response – if you read regularly, you know that not everyone does have that much sense.

          I was quite serious about advising you to be yourself. The best interviews I’ve had have been conversational, and the candidates were clearly asking questions related to things that came up in the interview process, or related to the key areas I mentioned above.

          I’ve also had interviews that went definitely awry for the candidate (although they may not have realized it) because they were obviously trying to get their sound-bites in – including in the portion of the interview where they were asking questions.

          You should go into the interview with a sense of what you want to learn about your prospective employer, and ask questions about the areas where you still need more information. You do want a fairly broad range – both because you should want to know a fair amount about a prospective employer, and also because different interviewers will cover different aspects in the main body of the interview.

          I have no problem with a candidate looking at their notes for a moment to decide what questions to ask, and then simply starting with “Can you tell me a little bit more about X?” where X could be any of the major topics I listed earlier.

          The best candidates treated the opportunity to ask questions as an opportunity to gather information rather than an opportunity to impress their interviewer.

          I’m not sure this is what you wanted to hear, but it is the best advice I can offer you.

          Best wishes –

  31. OfficePrincess*

    Mini-rant

    Technology can bite me. This week I had to have IT update my version of IE (I know, I know, but I have no choice) because critical system 1 wasn’t compatible with the older version I was running and IE itself was crashing multiple times per day. But once they did that, I discovered that critical system 2 isn’t fully compatible with the new version. I can use the basic functions, but if I need to use any of the admin functions I have to do it from home.

    Anyone else have some tech headaches to unleash?

    1. Adam*

      Not to make fun of you, but coincidentally a big part of my job is customer service over phone and email usually and so many of the people I serves tech issues could be solved with the question “Can you use ANYTHING besides IE?”

      Considering work with lawyers, tech is not an immediate strong suit, and explaining that not all browsers are created equal is like a whole new world to a lot of them.

      1. OfficePrincess*

        Unfortunately both systems are completely incompatible with Chrome. I’m not sure about Firefox because I can’t install it on my work computer. So I’m stuck. :-(

        1. Ama*

          Ugh, I feel you. At my last employer the budget system *only* worked with IE run from PCs. I worked for a department that was externally funded and our external funder insisted on buying us all Macs. We had to purchase software that would run virtual Windows just to access the budget system — it took a full ten minutes to start up but if you left it running and it was idle for more than 20 minutes it would log you off . Probably this could have been fixed with some investigation into the settings but university IT wouldn’t help us because their desktop support didn’t include help with Macs or non-standard software.

    2. Kyrielle*

      What a pain. Can you force it into compatability mode for site/system 2 and have it work, or has that been tried and failed?

      1. OfficePrincess*

        I’m going to blame not having thought of that on the ridiculous that was the past two weeks and say THANK YOU. I haven’t tested every feature yet, but I played around and it’s SO MUCH better.

          1. OfficePrincess*

            Pretty much. Granted, there are busier times it could have happened, but my mind still went right to “YOU HAVE GOT TO BE @#(*$&#@()%&@q KIDDING ME”. I’m one of two people at my site with admin rights, the other being my technologically challenged boss who only has them because he’s the boss, not because he could actually do anything with it. (And related to this morning, there are other people at other sites who do to and can help out in a pinch, but I refuse to use them unless absolutely necessary – they’ve got their own ish to do.)

    3. MaryMary*

      OldJob was really into creating their own software internally. For some reason, the customer service system refused to work with any version of IE later than 6. We were also not able to download any other browsers. Even after we started getting errors trying to access other (work related) websites because our browser was too old, it took months for IT to update the customer service software to work with newer browsers.

    4. Ezri*

      I feel your pain. I work at a company that uses Microsoft everything, which means most of our software and applications are built to work with IE9. Not just any IE, but IE9 in particular. And we just upgraded from 8 a year ago. I do a lot of UI work, so not only do I get the fun of trying to make things compatible for whatever the heck special snowflake CSS world old versions of IE live in, but I get the handful of users running on IE11 who are annoyed that the IE9 apps look funny.

      I don’t know how many times I’ve had people ask me how we can resolve an issue, and my only response is ‘stop using IE’.

      1. Bea W*

        LOL we get that response from our helpdesk (supporting our apps, not the company helpdesk) all the time. Sorry, we don’t get a say in the matter. I personally submitted a security request exception to be able to install other browsers. I do build and UAT. So it was approved for that reason. Otherwise I’d be SOL.

    5. Elizabeth West*

      Every damn day, when I come into the office and turn on my monitor and open my laptop to log in, the screen does not open on the big monitor. I can’t tell if it’s my dock or my laptop. If I pick up the laptop off the dock and then put it back on, it shows up on the monitor. Also, it takes forever for the keyboard light to come on. I hate logging in on the laptop.

      Twice, when I’ve removed my laptop to go do the front desk, it logged me OUT OF THE NETWORK COMPLETELY. I had to call IT to unlock me so I could log in. It didn’t do that last time, thank God but it’s getting stupid. I don’t want a new laptop until we get Windows 10. I DO NOT WANT WINDOWS 8.

    6. Bea W*

      Welcome to my life. My group is doing a major systems upgrade, and our company’s browser (IE8) is not compatible. They rolled out Chrome, but Chrome and Business Objects do not get along. So we tried IE11 and there were issues with compatibility again though I can’t recall what they are. Plus the corporate controlled settings on everything break stuff and good luck getting that resolved. There is so much beauracracy and opaqueness that the fact whole groups of people cannot work doesn’t matter.

      IT tends to ninja rollout updates. You could get back from lunch and find something broken and no one who can explain why. No one communicates these to the Helpless Desk either. I had a deskside tech actually say as much. Just watching him try to get our software to work after it suddenly stopped working was painful. It was clear he spent more time solving mysteries than actually resolving issues because no one communicated changes.

  32. Haiku*

    Does anyone know Alison’s posting schedule? I find myself checking the site for updates obsessively ( I think I’m 1.2 million pageviews all by myself). I know she posts the first one at midnight, are the rest also autoposted as well?

    Thanks!

    1. Christy*

      Weekdays midnight, 11 AM, 12:30 PM, 2 PM. It’s usually within a minute or two of those times. And Saturdays at midnight at 2ish pm.

    2. CJ*

      You could always sign up for an RSS reader with an app for your phone so you get alerts when a new article is posted. This may or may not be what I do…. :)

  33. Anie*

    I think I need an attitude adjustment. Can I get your thoughts?

    At my primary job (4 days a week), my boss left in May. I’ve been covering her position, and mine, for the same pay and with no thanks or added hours. It sucked.

    Someone was finally hired about a month ago. He was very clear his first week that he wanted to ease in, and so he only took over some of my previous boss’s duties.

    It’s been some time so I tried to start giving them back to him. I’m starting to get some push back from him though and I’m not sure what I should think about it.

    Earlier this week, I forwarded him an email from an outside source. She’s only contacted me b/c I’d worked with her when there was no one in my boss’s role and she wasn’t aware of his hiring.

    He came right back to me with the comment, “What is this? What do you want from me?”

    I said, “Well, I want you to reply to her and work with her on this future contract.” His job is literally to pick who we accept and don’t accept. I can’t make any decisions on this topic.

    His sarcastic response, “Well, anything I can do for YOU. That’s what I’m here for.”

    I just walked away. But I’d also emailed him this week, 4 weeks after his start date, a list of things I was still covering and asking if I can start training him on them. We met about an hour ago and he seemed suuuuper POed about it.

    He just kept repeating “There was at least FOUR things” and “Anything to make YOUR plate lighter.”

    Should I address his attitude? As my boss, is it my place to do so? Should I just accept that I have more duties because he doesn’t want to handle them?

    2. Dasha*

      I would say start by talking to him when he’s in a better mood and try something, “Hey New Guy, I’ve noticed that there seems to be confusion. Usually, Previous Person handled the X requests. They are being sent me because I was covering for Previous Person until you were hired so this is something in your realm of duties. If you have any questions at all please let me know and I can help.”

      See if that helps at all if not, then yeah, you need to talk to your boss about being clear what responsibilities are his.

    3. Adam*

      Of the two of you, one of you definitely needs an attitude adjustment and I doubt the one who does is reading this right now.

      I suppose I could ask if it was made clear to your boss during the hiring phase what his job duties would be and how much of the work you were currently doing would be passed back to him. If not that was a misstep but hopefully it can be corrected now.

      If he’s still not keen on it then I think it’s time open up a new discussion about reworking your job description and compensation accordingly.

    4. Kelly L.*

      Yikes. Is he your boss like his predecessor was, or are you his, or are you peers? It might make a difference in how to approach it.

      1. Anie*

        He’s definitely my boss. I have an assistant-level title. And I’m fairly certain there’s no way he could misunderstand the differences between our duties.

        We’re a publishing company. For every publication, he’s got a list that show either instructions on how to gather the content for a page or the name of who should be doing it for him.

        So far he’s only accepting 4 things out of 10 on the list from other people. Of the other 6, he’s supposed to do 4 and I’m supposed to do 2. I don’t know how he could miss that fact that my name is only on two items, and he has instructions for the rest…. Yeah, I get that it’s a lot of stuff. Trust me, lol, I def get that. But he’s paid more, has a higher title, and I’ve got oodles of other projects that just got tossed my way. I’m busy too.

        I also brought up in our intro meeting his first week, “Yay, I’ve been so overwhelmed! I’m so glad your here.” And he threw the breaks and was all, “Well, how about we hold off on some of this stuff?”

        2. BenAdminGeek*

          Maybe start by saying, “Hey, please remember I’ve got a ‘nice rack.’ Now, about these job duties…”

          But seriously, it sounds like you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place here, and that sucks :(

    5. AdAgencyChick*

      I think it would probably help to have a neutral, nonconfrontational conversation with him about what the workload was when your old boss was around, and how he would like to handle things moving forward — which may not be the same as it was before. But your current boss may have it in mind that what you do now is what you’re supposed to be doing, and that you are trying to pass off your work to him, when in fact you’re trying to restore the balance of duties to what it was before.

      If you can show him, “Wakeen did A, B, and C, and I’ve always handled X, Y, and Z. I’ve been doing A and B in the interim period, but doing A, B, X, Y, and Z isn’t really sustainable. How should we handle this?” It may be that you end up doing A, B, and Z and he takes X and Y from you and does C. But he’ll feel like it was his idea, and he’ll understand why it needs to happen.

      1. Dasha*

        Oh yeah, this might be better. I somehow missed that this guy was now your boss in my comment :-/

      3. catsAreCool*

        “your current boss may have it in mind that what you do now is what you’re supposed to be doing, and that you are trying to pass off your work to him,” This! The new boss sounds like that’s what he’s thinking based on his passive-aggressive words.

    6. Paige Turner*

      YIKES I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all. Is New Guy a peer or your boss?

    7. E*

      Review his job description. After a month he should have whatever duties he started with already under control and be able to add more, unless your former boss was extremely overloaded. Not that it’s any of his business (since you can assign these duties to him from what I understand), but you might explain that keeping these extra duties that are not yours long-term is keeping you from completing your normal full list of duties.

    8. afiendishthingy*

      Ugh, I’m sorry. My director was recently fired after spending his first year declining to perform the majority of the duties assigned to his position. Hopefully yours will either shape up or ship out sooner rather than later…

  34. Feeling infantilized...*

    Can I just vent for a minute?

    I’m a little frustrated with some of my co-workers because they don’t treat me my age. I’m a female, 30 years old but they treat me as though I’m a child. I am the youngest woman in the office and to be fair I do look young. They do things like call me sweetie or other pet names and I’m fairly certain they don’t extend those terms of endearment to everyone else. One of my coworkers has continuously said, “Oh yeah, you’re like 22 right?” and I’ve corrected him about three or four times now, “No, I’m 30… I thought I told you already?” Another new co-worker asked if this was my first job out of college and I can’t think of specific example but another co-worker tries to mother me a lot. She has a 20 year old daughter and is constantly comparing me to her and her likes/dislikes.

    I do dress professionally and conservatively and wear minimal makeup.

    I guess I’m tired of going through so much effort to be professional, dress professionally, be respectful, do a great job to be treated like a child.

    Just needed to vent thanks for reading my whine!

    1. Mockingjay*

      It sucks. I know from experience. And it’s the last thing you want to hear, but time will eventually cure this problem.

      In the final days of my internship, I was asked, “are you graduating from HS? Where do you plan to go to college?” “I just graduated from college and I am 21.”

      On my first business trip, the flight attendant yelled at me to sit in my seat. She thought I was 12. I was 23.

      Now that I am on the “Other Side of Life” (Justin Hayward!), I wish people would think I am younger. Now they see me as Office Mom.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        I used to have the same problems. I was 19 when I was pregnant with my first son, and I went to dinner with my parents and was offered a kids menu. I mean, 19 is young to be a mom, but I certainly wasn’t 11. I continued to look about 14 through most of my 20s.

        I think I’m in the middle now. The~20s people in my office think I’m a fossil and the late-50s people think I’m much younger than I am. I’d like to still pass for 25, though!

      2. afiendishthingy*

        I was told when I was 27 that children weren’t allowed in the section of a venue I was sitting in.

    2. Steve G*

      I’ve kvetched about this before. I am 34, it is finally starting to slow down, but it is annoying as heck, especially because it usually comes from people who aren’t that old, sometimes only a few years older than you. Someone who is truly old doesn’t do this. This is the one area where I’ve envied my similarly-aged colleagues who’ve looked older and don’t have to listen to this crap, which is always quite weird because when I worked with someone who was only 3 years older than me, visiting coworkers from other offices always talked to him like he was the experienced one, and then they’d ask me questions you usually ask a 25yo (how old are you, do you have roommates, etc.). Sorry I don’t have fine lines yet! They are avoidable.

      1. AnonPi*

        OMG yes this is exactly the type of thing I deal with too! I’ll be 40 next spring but you’d think I’m in my 20’s the way my coworkers (who are 1, 3 and 5 years older than me) act. The one who likes to try to act like a mother half the time (knows better than me cause she’s older) drives me absolutely nuts!

    3. Calacademic*

      At least you’re not a child. I have a 16 year old undergraduate working for me (he’s fantastic) but he can’t work with chemicals or go to conferences because he’s a minor.

    4. fposte*

      To be honest, I don’t remember how old people are and 22 and 30 aren’t that different to me. I wouldn’t worry about the number; I’d stick to worrying about whether people respect your work.

      1. College Career Counselor*

        +1. I’m now at the point where the 30 year old alumni look the same to me as the 22 year old seniors. Not that I’ve ever gotten them mixed up before. #awkwardconversation

      2. Steve G*

        I get that, and that is fine if someone just thinks you are young (which is fine!). But if someone starts teaching you stuff you already know, and they assume you don’t know only because of age – that is annoying!!!

    5. Me*

      Joe, you keep saying that. I’ve told you I’m 30. Are you ok? Maybe you shd see a doctor. They say the short-term memory is the first to go.

      Get all concern-troll-y on them.

      1. fposte*

        If you did that to me, I’d just start wondering why you cared so much. Unless I’m throwing you the birthday party, I don’t really need to know your age, and it seems defensive to focus on it.

        If they’re offering their perception of age as meaningful, address the meaning. “Has there been a concern about my productivity/professionalism/teapots? I’m happy to discuss any concerns and receive feedback, if so.” But let the actual age part be just a number.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      The best I ever came up with was to vow not to do these things when I got older, try to remember how people appeared to me when they did that to me.

      I have kept that vow…. most of the time… sort of….sigh.

      It sounds like they basically like you. That’s huge. Maybe you can switch to thinking about that sometimes when they make these references. I did not care for that stuff, either, so I don’t blame you for feeling put out by it.

  35. T3k*

    Ugh, difficult week. I have a boss that’s extremely forgetful (she’s old) and it’s hard for her to adapt to technology (she had gotten this thing similar to Square that’s a tablet people can pay through. She sent it back claiming it was too hard to learn… it really wasn’t, just wasn’t ideal for the job). She keeps trying to ask me how to make things better and I’ve already given her my advice (most of it means switching to electronic or switching to a better email system) but she never implements them.

    Not to mention, there’s a coworker here I’ve really began to not like at all. He’s difficult enough to deal with but, hey, I know I’m a difficult person to get along with myself. However, he made an offensive comment about gays a few days ago and it’s just instilled in my mind that he’s an a$$. So yeah, adding to the list of reasons I’m job hunting: find a boss that’s not so forgetful that I have to remind her 5+ times about something and to find coworkers that don’t spew close-minded crap.

    1. T3k*

      Oh, forgot to add: clash of personalities. I’m a very blunt person and while I try to check that anything I send doesn’t come off as rude, someone with a more sensitive attitude would still see it that way. Boss didn’t like that and kept saying it was rude and couldn’t understand that I didn’t mean for it come off as that (there was no offensive language, just asking her to stop re-sending order changes I’d already got). She also keeps thinking that I can just “get better” in wanting to work with customers, even after I explained I’m an extreme introvert and it’s mentally draining, no matter how you often you’re exposed to a stimulus. And then she tried to say that “well, I have Asian friends that aren’t introverted!” (I’m part Asian). Had to bite my tongue from replying back, as I knew it’d be something offensive. Should have told her she was using a handful of people to try and validate her generalization of a group that ranks as one of the most introverted countries and, since she met those people on trips, they were probably extroverts anyways, as that particular country is known to be somewhat standoffish to foreigners.

      1. fposte*

        Wow, the “Asian friends” comment is a trip.

        However, you did take to heart the email communication thing, right? That one’s on you to change, not on her to get used to.

        1. T3k*

          I tried re-reading the email to see if there was any other way to word it to not come off as rude, but all I can think of is maybe I should have said “please can you stop re-forwarding this…” rather than “can you stop re-forwarding this…” (It’s funny, I usually always say “please” and “thanks” in speech, but in emails, I keep forgetting to).

            1. fposte*

              I would definitely add a please and thank you–those would be pretty expected around here. Like you, I’m more naturally telegrammatic in emails, so I finish and then go back and add the pleasantries.

              Alternatively, is this your boss who’s sending you the stuff you’ve already got? Then unless it hurts something I’d just disregard it.

              1. Sammie*

                Perhaps work out a system…where you respond to her forward–so she knows you’ve got it under control?

  36. louise*

    Happy news:
    An auditor came in yesterday. It was not supposed to be a surprise, but he had left messages for our owner and the owner didn’t tell me or the accountant!! We were not prepared and I *knew* exactly what was wrong in my files and what he would find. Even with warning, I would only have been able to fix a little of it in in time.

    BUT–no fines assessed! He said this was “an educational audit only” and not a compliance audit. A compliance audit would have resulted in a $10k fine for each of the things he found wrong. We very well may get a compliance audit at some point, but he said the educational audit DOES NOT automatically trigger a compliance one in the future.

    Best of all, he gave me some pointers on what to focus my efforts on repairing and what to not worry about.

    Can we just focus again on the NO FINES ASSESSED bit? I now need to have a heart to heart with my boss to explain (AGAIN) what resources I need in order to make these fixes.

    1. Dawn*

      Hey now you have really good ammo for that conversation! “Hey Wakeen, I need X and Y in order to solve these problems or else when the compliance audit comes they’ll be $10K per error!”

    2. Beancounter in Texas*

      WHEW! Yay!!

      Point out the potential consequences for not getting the resources needed to fix the problems. That seems to get even the laziest boss motivated. :)

  37. voluptuousfire*

    I had a really interesting response to a rejection email for an interview I had the other week. I phone screened for a role and received a rejection email a week or so later. I usually ignore them but this one time I responded back thanking them for letting me know and to have a nice week. I got a response within a few minutes, saying that I had really impressed her and ultimately went in another direction with candidates but she would be happy to refer me to colleagues of hers. I thanked her for the feedback and told her to feel free to pass along my resume. Totally surprising response to an interview I thought went south.

    But again, I thought it was kinda strange that I apparently impressed her very much and wasn’t brought in for an interview. If someone really intrigued/impressed you enough but their experience wasn’t an exact match, wouldn’t you want to meet them in person? If anything, it would give more social proof to a referral, I would think.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Not if you knew you weren’t going to end up hiring them for that position — when you’re busy, it often doesn’t make sense to spend your time that way.

    2. Steve G*

      IME I wouldn’t put too much energy into it. In this job hunt, I’ve been referred to other positions twice like this, and both of those referrals went nowhere. I see lots of stories on the net about “I wasn’t good for position X but they referred me to Y and it was perfect for me and I love the job” but that didn’t happen with me. For one, it wasn’t really a good fit (bad judgment on the part of the company to even refer me), and for the second, I was just an average candidate for what they wanted.

    3. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

      No, I wouldn’t interview you if I didn’t think I might hire you. I’ve been quite impressed with plenty of people I didn’t hire. Perhaps I thought they would be better suited for a more senior position and that’s not what I had, or I needed someone with a ton of experience, and they were more entry level, but really awesome. I have absolutely (with permission) forwarded resumes for people I though were awesome but couldn’t hire myself. I’m willing to invest the time in sending your resume to a colleague, but probably not willing to spend over an hour with you if I know it won’t work out here.

    4. voluptuousfire*

      I have gotten feedback like this before but it was usually after an in person interview, not a phone screen. That’s why it struck me as a little strange.

    5. fposte*

      Nope. If you’re not in the running for this job, I’m not going to haul you in. I don’t ask or give that time until I do have something that might be a fit.

    6. MsM*

      There’s “not an exact match,” and then there’s “definitely not a fit, but boy, I wish we had something that was.”

  38. Cruciatus*

    Someone needs to create a guide on quitting a job for introverts. These last 2 weeks have been mentally exhausting. I promise I don’t mean this as a humblebrag where everyone likes me and boo hoo it’s hard. People I only spoke with occasionally and everyone else all came out to talk to me, hug me, wish me well. Today they had a party for me and presented me with gifts! My boss is happy for me but panicking about what will happen to the position until they hire someone. I have never talked about myself this much in a long time. I’ve been getting home just. so. mentally. tired. I hate that I’m almost more relieved it’s all over because I like these people, a lot! But I’m still in the same city. I’m not dying. This was my first time quitting a job on my own terms and I get now why others who have left kept it quiet, besides from HR and their supervisors. It’s too much for this introvert!

    1. Colleen*

      Yes. Surprise parties are a no-no for introverts. Having lots of people who you have to have the same conversation with when they come over to wish you well: “Yes, it will be different.” “Yes, I am excited.” “No, no regrets.”

      As an introvert, when I quit, I told my boss. Then I concentrated on getting everything together so that I wouldn’t leave any loose ends — created procedures and lists to help the next person. Then I waited until the last day, sent an email to my contacts and faded into the wind.

      Not ideal, but it worked for me.

      1. Cruciatus*

        Fortunately it wasn’t a surprise, but there was still the moment my boss made a little speech and all attention was on me as I opened my gifts. I didn’t like this at my own birthday parties as a kid, and I still don’t like it!

        But yes, I was so tired of saying the same thing. Next time (hopefully not for a long time) I will know better.

    2. Ama*

      Oof, yeah. My boss *cried* at my goodbye party — it was super embarrassing (especially since I’m a sympathetic crier, so I teared up even though I was mostly annoyed).

      Party aside, she made things easier on me possibly by accident, though, because she is an extrovert and absolutely can not hold anything back in conversation, so she did a lot of the “where is she going” conversations for me with a lot of the higher ups (and random other people who happened to run into her — as I said, she holds nothing back).

    3. Kristen*

      Yup, I know exactly what you’re going through as I have been going through the same thing for the past two weeks. It’s really nice to hear how much people care, but difficult to keep talking about it. I start a new job on Monday which will offer its own challenges as I get to know new people in a new environment. I’m really looking forward to the first month in the new job being over. Hopefully by that time I’ll feel more relaxed. Good luck and congratulations to you!

      1. Cruciatus*

        I’m totally with you! I’m excited to start, but I’m already ready to be used to my new surroundings and coworkers and getting a semblance of a routine started. My new job starts Monday too. Congrats to you as well! I hope the new place is awesome!

  39. Customer service, kind of*

    My job has recently begun to include answering more customer service/support calls. Since this isn’t the main part of my job, I don’t have any training in it or the opportunity for training. I’m trying to emulate my coworkers, but I would like to learn a little more. Are there any online resources or books that you all would recommend for this?

  40. Ruth (UK)*

    This isn’t a question or even a vent.. But it is about work!

    A coworker of mine who is also a friend gave her notice today (pretty standard reason – got a better job which is more in line with her career goals). I’m sad because she’s very good at her job so great to have around for that reason as well as being a good friend. :(

    1. M*

      I recently had my best work-friend leave for another company as well, so I feel your pain! It has been very hard not having her around to talk to (and I work remotely, so it was very nice to have someone I could call when things get too quiet!). I’m sorry this is happening.

    2. Dirk Gently*

      Aww, that’s hard. My work bestie who is also a friend outside of work is in month 2 of a year-long mat leave, not that I’m counting, and I miss her tons.

      On the flip side, my BEC just announced that she’s pregnant, so I get a year off from her soon!

  41. Anon for this*

    I need serious help with my writing. I have a habit of letting typos slip through in emails. I also tend to stop editing sentences midway, so I send out emails with non-sequitors, sentences that stop midway, or abruptly change direction. Problem is, I don’t see these errors. My manager points out something egregious once month, I’m working on it, but I feel like I don’t have the ability to resolve on my own. I proofread my emails several times, and change fonts to help spot errors. I’ve started sending more emails to colleagues to proof, I have a couple of templates for things I send out often, but it’s still an issue. I don’t think I have dyslexia (I took an online dyslexia assessment). Any advice on software or processes that could help? I wish I could just install a stronger spell check to spot these errors.

    1. Helka*

      One of the things I do with my emails is I read them “aloud” (quietly whispering or even just mouthing the words) for a final check-through. It tends to help me spot places where I’ve made typos, accidentally switched where a sentence was going mid-stream, or used less than optimal wording.

    2. Christy*

      Apologies if I’m suggesting anything obvious. Have you tried reading the emails aloud to yourself? How about reading sentences individually, and starting from the bottom, to make sure they each are complete and make sense? Or pretending you have no idea what you’re reading and seeing if you can make sense of them. Do you have the automatic spellcheck pop up? That might be a reminder to you to reread for clarity.

      2. bridget*

        A couple of other proofreading tips I use (mostly when it’s REALLY important things be perfect; but it sounds like the OP isn’t confident that her regular proofreading will be good enough for an email).

        – print out the email and read it on paper, putting the nib of your pen on each and every word, so you don’t stop proofing in the middle of a sentence
        – change the font to shake your brain out of assuming it knows what the sentence says (because sometimes when we are familiar with what we’re reading, our brain fills in the gaps to what the sentence SHOULD say, not what it ought to say – this is the same reason people proof from the bottom up, like Christy suggests).

    3. Jo*

      Have you tried making an outline of the email first? Make a list of the points you want to touch on, in order, and then expand the bullet points into sentences.

      1. Anon for this*

        Actually, that’s what I do. The issue is I don’t fully flesh out the bullets, and I don’t see they are incomplete thoughts when I proofread.

        1. fposte*

          Instead of thinking of it as proofreading, can you articulate to yourself what specific questions your recipient has on the topic and check to make sure they’re all answered? Like “What are we meeting about, where are we meeting, what time is the meeting, and will an agenda be provided?”

        3. Not So NewReader*

          I am not sure this is all a proof reading problem. I see what I want to say inside my head and miss parts of the explanation because I forget the person is not looking at the thing I am looking at.

          What I do is get the whole thing typed out, then I say to myself, “If I received this message would I understand what the other person wants of me?” It’s a logic check. Is this thing logical to someone who is coming in cold and seeing it the first time?

          The reason I don’t definite it as a proof reading problem is because I feel I am too locked into my own thoughts and I need to step back and consider someone else’s perspective. I also check for ambiguity. For example, if I am talking about two women, I make sure I don’t use the pronoun “her”, as in “did you ask her?” Will the reader know which woman I meant?

          It takes practice. I blame it on having have so much work that I sorted on my own, I am not always as sharp as I could be about having to loop someone in.

          A good way to start this whole questioning process is just make yourself slow down and pause. This stuff can happen if we are thinking about the next task and not focused on the current task.

    4. Colleen*

      Are you better at proofreading in Word? Or is it a generalized thing?

      If you are better in Word, then create your important emails there first and transfer. I’ve done that and it works very well.

      1. AcidMeFlux*

        I usually start emails in a Word document and then copy/paste to mail. Another thing that could help is using a fairly large font (16) and double spacing in your draft, even if you’re not nearsighted. Your mistakes can stand out more when they’re more in your face. (I teach EFL to adults and in companies in Spain. I’ve recommended this trick to lots of students who have to write in English, and they tell me they’ve had better results as well.) It also helps me when I have to write in Spainish, which is my second language.

          1. LCL*

            +1 on the large font and double space. Also, only if you are comfortable working with and changing fonts back and forth, write your draft in comic sans. It really is easier to read. It is considered very unprofessional and many people hate it, so if you can’t remember to change it back don’t do this.

            Try writing the email without the address line. Save the email, do something else, then come back to it to proof it. When you are satisfied with it, then type in the address line and type send. I don’t always do this but I should, for technical emails.

    5. Lore*

      If you’re not working on super time-sensitive stuff, I find that fully drafting the email, then putting it away for an hour (or even ten minutes) before doing the final readthrough and sending, is enormously helpful (and I’m a professional copy editor!). It helps with spotting errors but it also helps with figuring out what might be extraneous or overexplained (or underexplained).

      Also, this is inefficient, but a lot of people find it easier to proofread on paper than on screen. For especially critical emails, it might be worth printing out and rereading before sending.

      And finally–if you find yourself making the same errors over and over, you can customize your auto-correct settings in Word. The grammar checker also can be customized more than you might think–it’s not 100 percent reliable, but you can set it to identify sentence fragments, for example. You’d probably want to draft your emails in Word and then paste into your email, but that also helps with not accidentally sending before you’re ready.

    6. Arjay*

      If your email uses the Word dictionary (and probably if it has it’s own internal dictionary), you can set it up to flag or to autocorrect any typos you make frequently, even if the typo is a valid word. (e.g., correct pubic to public, or manger to manager.)
      In addition to the techniques you’re already using, it can also help to print important documents and read them on paper, instead of on the screen. I don’t want to turn you into a tree killer, but sometimes it’s necessary.

    7. khoots*

      If you’re looking for typos or grammatical errors, it always helps me if I read the email backwards. That way you don’t add in extra words or skip over things. For example if I wrote this sentence, “Today has been a rough day so I think I’ll go home now.” I would read it as: “now home go I’ll think I so day rough a been has Today”

    8. msbadbar*

      Hi Anon,

      How often are you sending emails with typos? You mentioned your manager points it out once a month. That doesn’t sound like a huge problem to me. However, if many or most emails contain the things you mention, I can understand why you’d want to work on it more. Just keep in mind that everyone misses typos from time to time. I’m a technical writer, and editing is a large part of my job. Some of my favorite books about editing contain pretty gnarly typos. It’s rare to read a book that doesn’t contain grammatical errors. So, you’re in good company.

      That being said, here are a couple tips:

      *If you’re using Outlook, turn on grammar check in addition to spell check.
      *Read your writing backwards to catch typos. (This can help you to see each word individually.)

      As far as tools, my company recently starting using WordRake. I haven’t used it, but people seem to like it. (Just keep in mind that these tools aren’t perfect–you’ll still need to check your work.) It’s not cheap, but if this is a big enough problem for you, maybe your manager would spring for something like it?

    9. Dawn*

      I use Grammarly extension for Chrome to catch stuff and I know there’s free grammar software that you can use as well. It catches more than spelling errors- it’ll catch the improper use of commas and grammar too. I find it SUPER DUPER helpful!

      1. TCO*

        I was about to mention the same thing–Grammarly’s not perfect, but it’s often “smarter” about grammar, sentence fragments, etc. than other tools.

    10. grayjedi*

      Can you split paragraphs into smaller paragraphs? Also, try proofreading from the end to the beginning, one sentence at a time. The paragraphs won’t make sense that way, which helps prevent accidental skimming.

    12. BRR*

      I have ADD and this is a huge problem with me. Is that a possibility? I’m going to repeat some but these are what I have found work best for me:

      -Printing it out in hard copy
      -take one of the color binder dividers that are transparent, they’re like a dollar, and placing it over the paper (thank you to whoever sent this to me on here)
      -using another sheet of blank paper to go line
      -Let it sit
      -Use a text to speech website and slow it down a notch. I use imtranslator.

  42. Ali*

    Wooo open thread! I want to celebrate the fact that I got a better paying part-time job! I actually interviewed at this company, which is pretty close to a dream company for me (yeah, yeah), for a full-time position. The HR manager called to tell me I was his first choice candidate, but they got an internal candidate last minute. I was definitely bummed out, but he was quick to offer me the part time role to get my foot in the door, since it can be hard to get a job here if you’re not already in the door; they like to do internal hiring when they can. Anyway, the PT job pays close to $4 an hour better than my pharmacy position and will get me at least three days a week of work, maybe four or five depending on business needs and if anyone is on vacation. Right now, I’m only getting about 10-15 hours a week in the pharmacy for not-so-great pay, and while the work is interesting, the low pay and limited hours don’t make it sustainable. The pay increase and better hours were things I couldn’t pass up.

    I took the drug test the other day and am now waiting to hear back for the all clear on reference and background checks. The HR manager is on vacation but advised me to not resign from my pharmacy job until everything came back good. Maybe he reads AAM? Hahaha!

    I’m also starting to look into a new career and have an interest in HR management. I reached out to the president of our local SHRM chapter to introduce myself and see if she had any advice on how I could get started as a career changer. I’m hoping this is a better path for me than communications/marketing, though I already know it won’t be easy.

      1. Ali*

        I don’t really want to. I also have a freelance social media job, but that can be done from home and has no set hours. I don’t want to have three jobs, and if the pharmacy isn’t going to give me hours and pay poorly on top of that, I don’t see the point in staying. When they do schedule me, my shifts are usually only four hours. I also don’t agree with the fast food mentality/deadlines approach they take to filling scripts.

    2. voluptuousfire*

      Fantastic! You sounded so down regarding the job situation in previous threads and I’m so glad it worked out for you. :)

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I agree, you sound great, Ali! I am very happy for you! Congrats and wishing you many positive experiences at New Job.

  43. Always anon for this type of thing*

    I emailed a professional contact last night asking about job opportunities at her company. There’s no client/vendor/service provider relationship between us; basically, one of our clients does business with one of her clients, and we sometimes liaise on our clients’ behalf.

    I told her I was looking to move on from my current company, and specifically looking to move to her area. I was able to briefly tell her where I’m at now by linking to a (someone old) job ad at her company for a position similar to my current job. And then I asked if she was willing to talk to me about opportunities, or connect me to somebody else at her organization.

    I’m just looking for somebody to tell me “that’s okay to do!” Was it okay to do? She owes me nothing and doesn’t know my abilities very well, but I think I’ve acquitted myself decently in our business dealings.

  44. TheExchequer*

    I left my old job (though it may not have left me – more on that in a second) and started my new job.

    I love love love my new job. I’m so completely overwhelmed with how much there is to know, but I have the distinct feeling I can succeed. My commute is so much less time and less stress, I almost don’t know what to do with myself. (And today I found out they have breakfast every Friday including both fruit and donuts. Oh yeah, baby. That’s what I’m talking about).

    My old job? Oh, old job.

    I told you last week that my boss decided he wanted to do an exit interview. Not only did he not have my last paycheck (and I live in the lovely liberal land of California where the department of labor takes a dim view of these sorts of things), he asked *me* to pay *him* money (Seven hundred dollars! No, really!) for an order – short story, I switched some numbers, then the client decided to sign a legally binding document without reading it. While I take the mistake seriously, I have zero plans to pay a single red cent towards the error. He then asked if I would contribute anything towards it. Uh, no. That’s not how this works.

    I called him Wednesday as I *still* didn’t have my paycheck and he said I’d have it by Friday because his accountant had been on vacation. (I can’t decide if that’s better or worse than being too overwhelmed to pay me on time). Then I got a text (yes, really!) yesterday saying I wouldn’t have it until Tuesday because the accountant had screwed up the check.

    Now, I know California law would not, shall we say, be particularly kind about this. But I have a new job and cannot afford to take *any* time off to deal with this. Also, old job was my first “real” professional job. I know if I go to the law with this, I can kiss my good reference there goodbye. (It is a tiny family company- less than 10 people. There’s no HR to go to and my boss was the owner so there’s no one to appeal to over him). Should I nail this guy to the wall as he more than deserves it? Or, you know what, I’m not a litigious person. Should I be thankful when (if?) I get my check and just let it go? This is the question I’ve been wrestling with this week.

    1. Kyrielle*

      Maybe set a date to yourself by which, if they haven’t sent you the money, you will go after it? Unless it’s a tiny sum, in which case it may not be worth it, but since it’s pay, hopefully it’s not. Though I think in your shoes I’d wait until Wednesday and if I didn’t have the money and hadn’t heard from them, I’d call. Either way, the conversation would go along the lines of how that is your money that you earned and you really need it to keep your finances in order, and you hope they’ll get it to you soon. If you want to mildly threaten without threatening, you could add that you understand they have extenuating circumstances that mean it couldn’t be done within the legal limit of X but you need them to get it to you soon.

      If that doesn’t work, I would totally go after them, despite the reference thing. But I dislike people not playing by the rules, and your mileage may vary.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I like this, especially the part about referring to the law without saying you plan to use it — which will (a) let them know that there is indeed law on this, if they didn’t already realize that (totally possible with small companies) and (b) let them know that YOU know about that law.

    2. the gold digger*

      I switched some numbers, then the client decided to sign a legally binding document without reading it. While I take the mistake seriously…

      You might not get a good reference from them anyhow.

      1. the gold digger*

        (Not saying this to be unkind – let those among us who has not inadvertently caused a $30,000 print job – which was more than my annual salary at the time – to be redone because she added the Pantone number for the new color but did not remove the old sample for the old color from the order throw the first stone.)

        1. BenAdminGeek*

          Hey, we’ve all accidentally over-funded the HSA of the employees, which legally you can’t get back…. right?

      2. Kyrielle*

        Yeah, if they wanted you to pay for the mistake (not reasonable: mistakes happen!) and you didn’t (and shouldn’t have to), this reference may already be toast. Another point in favor of going after it, if the nicer approach doesn’t get you the money.

    3. Dawn*

      Rihanna totally has a song about this that you need to go listen to about five times, call the guy once and play nice-nice while dropping the “yeah there’s a law about this jerkwad” card, and then call up the DOL and anyone else who will listen and get your last paycheck.

      The only way that people are ever going to stop jerking around employees is if we collectively decide to stop letting ourselves be jerked around. Good luck!

      1. Anonsie*

        The only way that people are ever going to stop jerking around employees is if we collectively decide to stop letting ourselves be jerked around.

        And how. Your state has resources for this, use them! Even if it’s just letting them know that you will go that route if they don’t do it by x date (I like Kyrielle’s suggestion above). Then follow through as soon as that deadline slips by, if it does. As my old dad the union rep used to say, “eff* you, pay me.”

        *Better believe he did not say eff.

    4. BRR*

      From what I read it sounds like there’s a penalty of up to 30 days of additional pay if they’re late. Hopefully everything is in writing. If it were me and I could afford it, I’d wait 30 days then say by law they owe you the additional money. Unless you desperately need a reference.

      This is if I have everything right.

  45. Helka*

    I’ve been thinking about submitting this as a question for Alison, but I’m not sure if it’s worth it. Open to all thoughts.

    Basically, long story short, the work my department does is pretty strongly dependent on having very strong reading comprehension and written communication skills. Being able to understand submissions that may be (poorly) handwritten or use unfamiliar abbreviations or jargon, and then being able to generate a professional, detailed, and firm response is a key of our entire function.

    My department just hired some new employees, and one of them is not a native English speaker — she’s from Europe, and while she’s quite knowledgeable on the subject matter at hand, she has been struggling with the reading comprehension/response writing portion of our job. I wasn’t involved in her initial training, but I’m the person she is expected to go to most with questions and for clarification, and I’m finding that instead of helping her with any of the little nitpicky bits of the job, I’m mostly helping her with understanding what is written that needs to be reviewed, or helping her write a good response, and we’re often spending a lot of time going back and forth as I try to explain things to her in a way that she can understand.

    So what I’m wondering is — at what point do I raise this with my boss, and what’s the best way to do it? Boss obviously thought she was a good choice for the role on hiring her, and so it seems like it could be a little tricky to come back and say “Look, I think she just doesn’t have the language skills for this job” but on the other hand, financial liability is involved in everything we do, and having someone who is having difficulty understanding the documents she’s handling in that position means opening up our department to the possibility of incurring some pretty significant financial losses.

    1. Katie the Fed*

      If she’s as smart as you say she is, her English skills should improve quickly in the new job. I’d give it a few months before you raise it.

      1. AcidMeFlux*

        Yes, this. Work-related language learning, especially at higher levels, is extremely effective. Also, is it that her understanding is shaky, or is she just being super-dilligent in confirming that she in fact is understanding correctly?

    2. fposte*

      From a different angle–is this a burden on your time, or is it mainly the concern that this isn’t a good fit. Because I think it’s fine to help her get up to speed and all, but if it’s eating into your productivity that’s a lot to ask of a co-worker. I would open a conversation with a manager earlier than later if that’s the case–“Natalya is smart and quick and may well pick this up pretty soon, but right now it’s taking a lot of my time to help her. Would you like me to keep doing that and push the XYZ back instead, or is there another way she should be getting this coaching?”

      1. AcidMeFlux*

        Well, maybe consider getting an ESL teacher for once a week classes for short-term help to give this employee a boost in her language skills. (Half the work I do here in Spain with EFL classes in companies is basically this; reviewing the work people do in English, teaching proactive proofreading, etc.) Frankly, I think a lot of firms even with native speakers could use help with English. Back in the 80s when I still lived in NYC I did a lot of temp, and a number of times I got sent to law firms, supposedly for secretarial work, but the agency would tell me sotto voce that “this partner is brilliant but can’t write a memo to save his life”.

        1. fposte*

          The manager might, but Helka’s the co-worker–she doesn’t have any say over this. That’s why I wanted to inquire about whether this is pressing too much on Helka’s time, since coaching this co-worker would default to being her manager’s job and not hers.

  46. Steve G*

    Urgh, I had an interview cancelled because my salary expectations were “too much.” They weren’t on glassdoor so I chose a salary range that was utterly normal for that job in NYC. I was a little miffed because they asked me what I have been doing since I lost my job, told me what I want to much, then cancel the interview. I felt like saying “don’t have your offices in NYC if you want to pay Ohio salaries” but didn’t. I hate the “what have you been doing since you’ve been unemployed thing.” Truth of the matter is, I’ve been doing some personal stuff such as helping a friend with his building renovation that sounds like BS I made up (similar to “I’ve been consulting”), and I’ve spent a lot of time applying to jobs and interviewing at some places multiple times, only to have the job frozen, or have Mr. Ideal Candidate come along and get the job.

    1. YandO*

      can you enroll yourself in some class? A graduate certificate program, maybe?

      Also, have you considered volunteering?

      I think that might help with the “what have you been doing?” questions

      1. Steve G*

        Well….I volunteer worked on a farm and taught ESL on the side for years, and it has never even come up in a job interview…and you can teach yourself most computer programs yourself these days online + with books….and I don’t want to sign up for some schooling (and I’d be singing up for Spring 2016 at this point anyway)….so none of those items solve the problem.

        Also, I don’t understand what any of those things have to do with getting a job. So what if I shovel manure once a week, I’m not applying to manure-shoveling jobs. And I spent a lot of time this year renovating our new house, which I found to be a turnoff in interviews, maybe because people view owning a house here = being rich (and thus will not be happy without a high salary), though that isn’t necessarily true.

        1. Steve G*

          Sorry if that sounds snippy. It isn’t aimed at you. I just get really frustrated with that question. It seems that every answer is wrong. I did set up an SQL server and practiced SQL. When I brought that up in an interview it took the “oh so you’ve never worked with it?” question. Very frustrating. I don’t know what employers think unemployed people are doing. I think most people have long lists of things they do when they aren’t working, and I’m doing those things. And not all of them are interesting to talk about with people. No one is sitting on the couch staring at the wall aimlessly waiting for a job offer.

          1. Nashira*

            Empathy here on the “so you’ve never done it at work” bit. I’m applying to some networking jobs that I meet the quals for, but I have no formal experience networking. I’m worried about hearing that too.

            Job hunting can freaking suck sometimes.

    2. voluptuousfire*

      It sounds like they were jerks. I’ve found most interviewers never asked about what I did on my time off and those who did, only a few really seemed to really stress it. If someone cancels your interview because your salary range is too much, forget them.

    3. Lady Bug*

      I hate the what have you been doing question too! Sleeping late, going to the gym, trying to find a #!÷%^”!% job and binge watching What Not to Wear and the Incredible Hulk. It didn’t help being unemployed over the coldest winter in years, I wasn’t leaving the house unless absolutely necessary.

  47. over educated and underemployed*

    This has been a rough week on the job front! Rejected from a fill-in-needed-immediately part time position that would have been well paid and great for my current situation, and kind of depressed about that, because I know that based on the rush it was a far, far less competitive situation than most. Turned down an in-person interview for a job that I found out on the phone interview would’ve been a 20% pay cut, with hours that would’ve required paying another $500 in day care on top of that. Had a first interview for a job that sounded pretty neat, but got the vibe and did research indicating that it would probably also be a pay cut, so I have mixed feelings on that too.

    I know nonprofits aren’t supposed to pay much, but I feel like these are depressingly low wages for jobs requiring a master’s degree and 3-5 years experience. I’m afraid if I get one I’ll be looking for an exit strategy a year in because my paycheck will barely cover day care, and I’ll feel like I’m being supported by my husband while having a full-time job that’s the financial equivalent of a hobby and making us live paycheck to paycheck. Universities and government pay more for the same duties but I haven’t even landed an interview with either of those. I’d like to be able to hold out for something that matches my current (not all that high) wages at least, but my job ends in four months, so I’m not sure if I can.

    Optimism? Advice? Commiseration from other job seekers?

    1. Christy*

      The budget for childcare does not come exclusively from your earnings! Continuing to work increases your future earnings, and stopping work makes it a lot harder to reenter the market once your kid is older. It’s not as simple as [Cost of childcare] > [your salary] ==>stop working, it’s your fault that daycare is expensive.

      There’s an article on The Billfold that I’m going to link in a reply.

        1. Ad Astra*

          How do male teachers manager to outearn female teachers? Their salaries are based entirely on education and experience. I would hazard a guess that female teachers might lose a few years of experience if they decide to stay home for a while, but I don’t know. All the teachers I know personally didn’t feel the need to stay home because the job comes with so much time off already.

          This is really going to bother me because the teachers in my family claim there’s no pay gap in education.

          1. blackcat*

            I’m betting for 2 reasons:
            1. Coaching. Male teachers are much more likely to coach a sports team and that comes with extra $$
            2. Summer/night school. When I taught in public school, a large percentage of the male teachers took on these extra jobs. It was in a district that paid well enough that, by taking on extra responsibilities, a fair number of teachers managed to have a stay at home wife.

      2. kozinskey*

        +1 to this! Also, depending on your personality, having a full-time job outside the home can be key to your emotional well-being. That’s worth something too!

        1. over educated and underemployed*

          Definitely! I would extend that to say that can also be the case for part time work though. Right now I work 32 hours a week and with an hour commute, it’s being out of the house for 40 hours a week, which is a pretty substantial amount but not overwhelming. I feel like with this commute, working 24-32 hours is ideal. I would go up to 40 for more money, but I just don’t want to work an extra day a week for nothing.

      3. over educated and underemployed*

        I know that, and I certainly don’t plan to stop working. But right now we only pay for day care part time, and the idea of getting a full time job where I would make less money as well as get less time with the kid doesn’t sound like it would help my future earnings or sanity much either!

        And I know day care is a joint expense, but I do think about it in relation to my salary because my husband makes juuuust enough to cover our other bills, so if I make less than it costs, we would go into debt. If I make what it costs, I’m working full time for no change in our finances. Ideally, I would make enough additional money that with two full time working parents, we’d have some breathing room, and maybe even be able to save for retirement and college. In fact, I REALLY want to be able to do that.

    2. K*

      You just have to find the right nonprofit. I work for a nonprofit and get paid what I consider a pretty healthy salary with great benefits, though yes, if I worked for the for-profit equivalent in my field I’d probably get paid more.

      1. over educated and underemployed*

        Thanks! I hope to. Not looking to strike it rich here, “pretty healthy” sounds great.

    3. Sweatin' like a pig*

      Deeply felt commiseration. I’m trying to get out of a bad situation – I’m also OEUE, but my job actually pays decently and has great benefits. Only…it’s rapidly draining away my will to live, due to the toxic nature of the non-profit and the reduction of the actual role to mind-numbing rote work.

      However, any jobs that I can find that I would be well-qualified to do (due to previous job experience & educational experience) pays such a pittance, I can’t see doing that to my family unit. We’d be taking a hit with my lowered salary (and we’re talking about 10’s of thousands of dollars here – going from mid 60’s to mid 40s at best), increased benefits costs, and less retirement savings. On the one hand, it’d hopefully pay off in the sense that in another 3-5 years I could move up into a better role. On the other hand, that’s what I’d thought about my current job, and it seems to be going in the reverse.

      I’m finding it hard to accept that it might make the most rational economic sense to stay where I am – that makes me die inside. But at the same time, going back to living like I was a grad student and pinching pennies until they squeal and having to use food banks to get by?

      So not much helpful to say here except that you’re not alone!

      1. over educated and underemployed*

        I hear that! These jobs actually pay…what I was making as a grad student. Just without the flexibility and probably without the completely employer-paid health premiums. I did not think that would be the peak of my earning power, and I also wonder if taking a job like that actually would allow me to move into a better role in a year or two (can’t afford to stick around for 3-5). Good luck!

  48. happypup*

    I’m not sure how to best manage this situation and I’d appreciate some input.

    The background: I work in a unit (A) within my organization that supports a bunch of departments. There’s another, different unit (B) that does basically the same work for a whole other set of departments. Totally different reporting lines, etc., but we’re pretty much the same in terms of services offered. There’s some territorialness on both sides, and I’m pretty new, so I’ve stepped in it a couple times when people from the units served by B came to me for help and I just worked with them instead of referring them to B. I have a better understanding of the boundaries now and do a better job checking people’s affiliations, but my relationship with the staff from B is still pretty strained and there have been a couple times when they complained because they suspected I was working with their people (but I wasn’t). My direct boss understands the situation, has dealt with the folks at B pretty extensively before and has my back.

    The problem I’m not sure how to deal with is that there’s another, higher-up boss who occasionally talks about my projects with B. And here’s the thing: she pretty regularly misspeaks about who I’m working with. Like, I work with the Marble Teapot groups and she tells B that I’m working with the Meringue Teapot groups (who are B’s to work with). It’s just a slip of the tongue, but it sets off this whole cycle of B complaining and me getting negative feedback and having to explain that no, really, I would never work with Meringue Teapots, higher-up boss just meant Marble. If B and I had a friendly relationship, I think this is the kind of thing we could just laugh off (c’mon boss, get your departments straight!) but since things are fraught anyhow, it just immediately escalates and I feel like it reignites their suspicion of me every time.

    Maybe this is all just something to continue to let my direct boss act at the buffer/mediator/whatever on and hope that it will all improve over time, but it just feels like there ought to be something I could proactively do to fix this. Any suggestions?

    1. Arjay*

      Would it be possible to have a conversation with one or more of the folks at B to sort of reset your interactions? This part of your story stood out to me: “I have a better understanding of the boundaries now and do a better job checking people’s affiliations…” If you haven’t directly told that to B, I think that’s a good place to start. Maybe the B people don’t realize that you are doing your homework to be more aligned? Even if they see that you haven’t been working on Meringue teapots, they might be thinking it’s just dumb luck that you’ve been getting it right, as opposed to being part of a concerted effort to better understand the work divisions.

      1. happypup*

        Even if they see that you haven’t been working on Meringue teapots, they might be thinking it’s just dumb luck that you’ve been getting it right, as opposed to being part of a concerted effort to better understand the work divisions.

        This is a good point. I’ve been feeling a bit resentful that there’s like zero benefit of the doubt when they suspect I’m out of line but thinking about it this way helps makes sense a little of how they react. Obviously the resentfulness isn’t helpful and I may need to really emphasize to them that I get their concerns and respect their boundaries (even though I think they’re a little overzealous, haha).

    2. fposte*

      Ah, I can totally see that happening here–I have about three different work axes that leave people confusing me with somebody else. Do you have or can you cultivate a friendly contact at B who can help with the message? It may not work if B is too big or too scattered, but it’s a possibility to consider too. In general, it sounds like finding a few warm spots in the relationship with B would be advantageous.

      I also think that this should be a known bug in the big boss by now, and they should have heard her make the mistake going the other way, too. Don’t know if they’re slow at putting it together or just irritable.

  49. anonanonanon*

    I keep getting more responsibility at work – to the point that I have double the number of projects as my team members and am doing work more on par with a senior level team member. I’ve been at this company for about two years and have five years experience in the industry before coming here. I’ve asked for a raise or a promotion, but it’s very much a corporate “everyone gets the same raise and that’s based on the company’s profit, not your performance” type of thing. Promotions only happen if someone else leaves the team or department and most people here have been in their positions for years and have no indication of moving. There’s no opportunity for a title change either.

    I’m just really frustrated that all comments about my work have been excellent and I’ve been given more responsibilities and duties, but that there’s no pay increase or chance of promotion. It’s a bit disheartening to know that pay raises aren’t based on the quality of my work, and that everyone gets the same yearly raise regardless.

    1. Dawn*

      Don’t take the pay raise thing too personally- the last company I worked for was like that for whatever reason. Pay raises ONLY happened with a change of title.

      Otherwise, hey look at it this way- this is gonna look really good on your resume as you spruce it up to go job shopping for places that will actually want and respect the level of work you’ve been putting out!

      1. anonanonanon*

        I’m trying to think of it that way, but it can get frustrating! But glad to know there are other companies who do this.

    2. TCO*

      Could it be time to think about moving on to a company who will reward your increased skills/responsibility?

      1. anonanonanon*

        I’ve been thinking about it, but I’m worried that this is an industry trend, since I had the same problem at my last company and I know people at other companies in the industry also share this frustration.

          1. it happens*

            yup – sadly, a lot of companies are willing to pay more for someone ‘with outside experience’ rather than just give a raise to people with internal knowledge. Never quite understood it, myself.

  50. CJ*

    Just an update. Had an interview at a big University on Wednesday. It was canceled (not their fault – the entire University closed for the day) and moved to Monday and now I’m just hanging around and playing the waiting game.

    Who else is waiting around and what do you do to avoid thinking about it constantly?!

      1. CJ*

        Oh, I wish I liked video games…. that does sound like an awesome solution. Maybe I need to go to the closet and drag out my paints and paintbrushes… that would make it go by.

        And I suppose I should really focus on my current job as well…. I just can’t help but daydream about the new job. boo.

  51. I really want to learn new teapot skills.... or leave*

    I design chocolate teapots. However, professional development is very important to me. Unfortunately, my manager gives me no developmental opportunities (he keeps them for himself) and he also always finds ways to block development ideas that I come up with on my own. As a result of the lack of development, I am thinking of leaving the company but until I do, I am trying to make the most of this job and have been trying to take the initiative to offer assistance, volunteer for projects and present myself as willing and eager to lend my chocolate teapot design expertise to him and to other departments as needed.

    Our company COO recently sent a memo requesting that department heads form a task group to focus on developing strategic solutions to address issues the company has been experiencing with overall teapot quality. The issues are a HUGE deal and have the potential to completely undermine the company’s teapot making enterprise. The COO’s message was that departments needed to work (as a group) to identify solutions. It was clear that the COO sees problem resolution as a company wide effort.

    When the memo was published I asked my manager if I could be the teapot design representative to the task force. Here is his reply:

    I think you could make a valuable contribution the effort, but the activity does not require chocolate teapot design expertise and I think you should focus on the many teapot design issues that have been arising such as teapot handles coming off, defective spouts, etc. I will let Mr. Flubberbudgit know that if he would like to speak to you specifically about problems with chocolate teapot design, he can but unless he directly asks you to help I do not want you to get involved the strategic planning efforts and meetings that I think that Flubberbudgit will organize

    How do I reply to this? My chocolate teapot design responsibilities are well under control and in fact I have done everything I need to analyze existing teapot designs, create new designs and examine risks of the new designs. My designs have now gone into prototype production. I might be needed again once my new designs go into production or the designs fail and/or need additional tweaking. Until then, there is little day-to day design work for me to do. I have enough room to accommodate any new responsibilities that may come out of the task force. (My manager used to hold my job so he should be fully aware that sometimes the job has a “stand-by” component to it.)

    This is not the first time that something like this has happened. I have approached him directly and requested his support for my development efforts but he just pays lip service to the concept and then later blocks everything I try to do. I can try to push harder but he is paranoid, extremely resistant to criticism and anything that he sees as a challenge his authority.

    I feel that my manager wants me to do ONLY the narrow specific I was hired to do- and nothing else- and it is extremely frustrating. The irony is that he got promoted because someone encouraged his career development into new areas. He just does not seem to want to do the same for anyone else.

    He inherited me and I know he wants replace me with his own pick so he would love to see me go voluntarily ( I am well regarded and competent so unless I screw up, firing me is not likely option).
    I am in a good job but I am unwilling to stay in this position if I can’t develop new skills or be challenged.

    How can I get him to stop blocking my efforts to gain new skills?

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      Honestly, unless you jump over him, he’s going to keep doing this. And jumping past him will probably have some major repercussions. My old boss would do stuff like this. I’d specifically ask for development/larger involvement in various areas (budget, strategy, etc) but get turned down kind of like you were. That’s why I left. I knew I wouldn’t be allowed to grow in the ways I wanted/needed to.

    2. Dawn*

      You’re not going to get him to stop. You’ve identified the issue- he’s paranoid about keeping his position and terrified of competition- so just work on getting out of there!

    3. Camellia*

      I noticed this phrase, “…unless he directly asks you to help I do not want you to get involved the strategic planning efforts and meetings that I think that Flubberbudgit will organize.”

      Is there a way you can discreetly let Mr. Flubberbudgit know that you would be available if he asked for your participation?

    4. Dynamic Beige*

      Short answer: you can’t.

      I had a manager who would order the newest version of whatever software for himself, try and figure it out/do things with it then make a report to his boss about how great it was “Lookit what I did!” and then make a case for the upgrade for everyone. Now, some of you may be thinking that that’s “normal” and that’s what a manager does but… not in this case. He had no skills, it was why he was promoted into management. He would play around for months, holding up production. It would have made more sense to get one of the employees who was more familiar with the software and production to do it.

      At LastJob, they spent a lot of money getting a custom timesheet program developed and it became policy that every hour had to be billable to a job docket. There were slow times of the year when literally nothing happened but there wasn’t any way to show that. They got rid of the R&D category and training. Just trying to get a copy of something different to play with got a suspicious “why do you want to do that?” or a complete shutdown “that’s so-and-so’s job”. That manager told me that if I wanted to design, I should take a continuing education course in my personal time. Even when I went above and beyond and pulled off stuff that more senior people couldn’t do, it didn’t matter.

      So here’s my advice to you: you need a mentor. Someone higher than your boss who has taken a shine to you and can advocate for your advancement — just like your manager has/had. This is not an easy thing to get, especially because it has to look as though you didn’t ask for it. The problem is that your manager is in a bind: they know that you are a better whatever than they were, that you have more talent and skills than they did/do… but they also know that keeping you where you are on their team is key to their success. They may like their friend better, but that person may not be as good at WhateverYouDo as you are.

      You’re going to have to network. Does your company have something like a baseball team? Or does charity work like with Habitat for Humanity? Is there an internal mentorship programme? Is there a group that goes out for drinks after work? Is there someone in the company who does what you do/where you want to go that you could just speak to informally about next steps in your career in an overarching/broad strokes kind of way? Is there another department in your company that you could apply to transfer to? I would also suggest that if you’ve got ideas for improving quality, write them down. It’s your impression from the memo that was circulated company-wide (I assume, otherwise how did you see it?) that everyone should be involved in the process. Your manager has said that he thinks you have something to offer, but he doesn’t want you participating in meetings or speaking with the COO personally… but he never said anything about submitting a report to the committee. Yes, doing that without permission will get you in some trouble but 1. I doubt your manager is going to say anything to Mr. Flubberbudgit and 2. you know that passing it by your manager first is not going to deliver a positive result, he’ll quash it… and then probably claim the ideas as his own.

      1. I really want to learn new teapot skills.... or leave*

        Thanks. Great post! I am starting to network internally and hope to develop a mentro from that.

    5. Thinking out loud*

      I would go talk to Mr F about the task force and its goals and my ideas to fix the problems – everything except explicitly saying that I wanted to join the task force. If I knew the COO well enough, I might even day, “I’ve been told that I could join the task force if you asked me to do so.” Then I would hope he says something that I could interpret as directly asking me for help. I’d go tell my manager that Mr F did indeed ask me to help, so I’m joining the task force.

    6. I really want to learn new teapot skills.... or leave*

      Thanks for the suggestions, all. I am implementing a couple of them today.

  52. Jo*

    Okay so I responded to this job posting that I’m wondering its a scam. It was posted on a major job search site.
    It reads that they Hiring Immediately. Great Compensation and it lists a bunch of perks. I applied on Wednesday, and I received a generic email this morning from some email that is does not look like a company email. The person’s last name is not in the email. And I just noticed that when I go on their website, they are a marketing company that supposedly has a lot of clients, but does not list who they are. I cannot find anywhere who the CEO is. They supposedly have a good employee review on the Fair Business Report but there is no mention of them on LinkedIn or Glassdoor or anywhere. Even on the website, there are random first names but no last names. They have a facebook and twitter, but it does not talk about anything that they actually do. Instead it just quotes inspirational phrases from other well known people. Is this weird?

    1. Kairi*

      My sister worked for a company like that and it turned out to be door-to-door sales, 100% commission based.

    2. Katie the Fed*

      Sounds like a multi-level marketing scheme. They love those inspirational quotes and stories. I’ll bet you’d be selling Jamberry or some other such nonsense.

      1. Katie the Fed*

        Oh and if they call it “Direct sales” – that’s definitely multi-level marketing.

        1. Kairi*

          +1000 Exactly, also if it they have “fast track” to management that’s generally a sign too.

          1. Kelly L.*

            And if they gush about all the things you can buy with your money, rather than how you’re going to be making it. Watch out for too much focus on people’s Cadillacs and mansions and such. Also, if they talk like their business is for only a few elite people who are superior to everybody else, as if direct sales were the Marine Corps.

  53. Just Reading A Little*

    Has anyone ever worked as a chat customer service representative for websites? You know, when you go to a website and they have someone to chat with. I think this could be a great fit for me; I am hard of hearing, and cannot hear on the phone. I like chatting with people online, and I can certainly be helpful and professional. Plus, I am online all the time already! Win, win, win! I just wonder if anyone here has done it and would like to share their experience.

    1. Customer Service Rep's Fiancee*

      Hi there. My fiancée is a customer service rep and while his job is over the phone I feel qualified to give you the point of view he’s shared with others who have asked about it. Many of the customers you’ll get will be easy to neutral to work with, polite for the most part though they may not have all the answers you need to help them (customer’s often forget or never knew important details of their case). That being said, a portion of people will may bee rude, belligerent and use profanity (happens several times a week to him via phone, and my guess is some people especially when cloaked with anonymity of being online will do so as well). Over time, the job will get easier as you know more and are more confident. You’ll enjoy helping those you can and who appreciate you (most) and regardless of how good you get, will probably get a few bad apples just do to statistics. Good luck!

    2. YandO*

      check out olark – they are always hiring part-time remote

      also, stripe may be a good fit. And other start ups.

  54. WantstoStand*

    I just got told by our company’s HR that my request to have a riser for my computer so I can stand instead of sit got turned down. I wanted to do so to improve circulation/add to my out of work efforts lose weight (through diet and exercise), however, they say as it’s not to correct a medical problem that I can document with a doctor’s note I can’t. I’m really bummed, I get it’s an unusual request (as far as this company is concerned), however, I think a company that really cares would embrace people wanting to be healthier.

    1. Colleen*

      At my company, people who have had this happen to them have just piled up reams of paper or boxes to make a temporary “riser.” It is actually a good thing to try so that you know if it is something you will actually use. Then, if you find out that, say, it helps with your lower back pain, you might be able to make a case for getting a real one.

    2. Ash (the other one)*

      You can get a cheap mod from IKEA… I have a few colleagues who did that. Technically employers don’t have to pay for things that are not work related or medically necessary.

    3. kozinskey*

      This would make me tempted to go to my doctor and see if they could come up with a note. Actually, I’ve been tempted to get one for low back/hip pain caused by sitting too much. But yeah, if that’s not feasible I’d look at DIY risers or something you can purchase for yourself.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      Would a chiropractor’s note suffice?

      I got a note last week for a standing desk. Granted, I’ve been getting treated for 6 months by this person and have documentation going back two years of appointments with a primary care doctor, ortho, PT, different chiro, and this guy. The chiro is doing myofascial release to treat the tightness and pain that I get in my hips, which truly is aggravated by sitting all day. But, I think almost everyone gets musculoskeletal issues from sitting at a desk all day and most chiros will write this note. (I understand some people don’t want to spend the $40, but I’m already spending it for the treatment.) FWIW, the MRT helped for the first 5 months, and then something happened and I have pain in my other side now, which is why we are going for the desk. 30 min. weekly treatment to undo 40 hours/week of damage is asking a lot.

    5. Another English Major*

      I agree with AnotherAlison you should maybe get a chiropractor’s note, but you’re right it is incredibly short sighted of your company. I don’t understand companies that don’t want to make it easier for employees to be productive when they have nothing to lose. I went through the same thing a few years ago just to switch to a different chair, it’s ridiculous.

      1. WantstoStand*

        Thanks everyone for your replies. In my frustration at typing this out I was unclear, I have been unilaterally turned down for standing period regardless if I buy a riser myself, use boxes, etc. The HR person basically said if people are working in ways that are outside of our company’s norm they need a note. I like the chiropractor idea, however, as I already admitted to him that I don’t have a medical issue for this to fix per se (I’d like to lose weight as stated – I’m getting married in 10 months and this is extra motivation), I’d probably have to wait a while to try that to say I do have a medical condition.

        1. Another English Major*

          I don’t think you need to wait awhile. This is part of proactive health and if a chiropractor or doctor wrote you a note it should be covered under “medical condition.”

        2. AnotherAlison*

          Your first post mentioned you are working out. You could have a medical issue arise at any time!

  55. Anti-Drama Queen*

    I’m fairly new to administration (5 months) and work with 3 other admins (2 lead admins, one of which is my boss, and 1 “regular” admin like myself). I’ve been finding that the lead admin who is not my boss is very sneaky and likes to start drama. This admin used to be my coworkers old boss, and she caused enough drama to get HR involved.

    My example is that I restock the cafe in the morning when I come in and before I leave at night, but she tells my coworker that she’s the only one who does it. I’ve been finding that this is not the case and that she’s actually stopped helping out altogether. I’m worried that she’s going to say she’s the only one restocking to my boss and that I’m going to get in trouble for it.

    That’s just one example, but my question is how do you avoid getting caught in drama from someone who is looking for reasons to get you in trouble?

    1. fposte*

      By not accepting the challenge. I wouldn’t worry about what she said to the boss (I don’t think most bosses deeply care who’s restocking the kitchen stuff, for one thing). I might consider saying calmly to her at one point that it sounds like there’s been some confusion on the restocking–you’ve been doing it regularly and are happy to do it, so she doesn’t need to worry about it. But that’s the last I’d talk about the topic.

      Dramamongers are sometimes dramatic actors themselves, but really they’re directors–they need you to leap onstage for their work to be satisfying. Stay offstage.

      1. Anti-Drama Queen*

        Yeah I might send an e-mail just clarifying the schedule. I think I was more worried that it would be seen that I wasn’t doing my job and I’d get in trouble for it. Having a written schedule would help keep things orderly and on track.

        Thanks for the creative advice of staying offstage!

  56. Cass*

    I used the “magic interview question” on a phone interview for a job I thought was a stretch – they seemed to respond really well and I think it was a big help in my favor! At the end of the call, they said a very, *very* (their emphasis) select group of their 10 phone interviews would be invited to the final stage in-person. Well, only 3 days have passed and I got an email saying they were “extremely impressed with me” and want the in-person on Monday!!!! Wish me luck, this site has been a huge help so far.

    1. Cass*

      Oops, meant to include they said they would be in touch “in a few weeks” if I got the next interview so I was pleasantly surprised to get the email 3 days later.

  57. Amber Rose*

    Although it surprises me somewhat, I really enjoy the job I was hired for. Like a lot. I had believed I would be good with anything that paid the bills since I have no particular work aspirations, but I really like the work I’m doing. And now that jerk face has been let go (and we’re getting a lot of cheering about that, I guess he was actually pretty terrible to deal with for clients too) and I’m taking on a chunk of his work, I’m busy too. Really busy.

    The problem is that a month or so after I was hired, they decided I should train to take over the safety program, which is not work I actually enjoy much after all. And the more I learn it, the more I’m expected to do. I’m feeling a little overwhelmed, and also feeling that I don’t want to inherit this program when the existing coordinator leaves (another year, mabye 2). Because that would take me away from the other stuff that I enjoy.

    My 6 month review is next week. Should I bring these feelings up with my boss? Or is it too soon for that? I’m fine with being part of the safety committee and helping out, but I don’t really want it to be mine.

    1. fposte*

      I think it’s legit to bring up at that meeting rather than later, since that gives them time to find somebody else. “I’m happy to help out as best as I can, but the more I get a hold of the Teapots part of the job the more I know that’s where I want to spend my time and grow. Would it be a problem to put somebody else on training to replace Jane?” Be aware that that may be the growth opportunity they had to hand you, though, and if so that may mean slower growth.

    2. Dawn*

      Sure, bring it up. Frame it as a “hey I am really enjoying (work I was hired to do)! Here’s everything I have on my plate (list everything). One thing- I am happy to help out with the safety program but it’s really eating into my ability to keep up with (work that you guys actually hired me to do). How do you want me to handle that?”

      Your boss needs to know the impact that this safety program is having on the work that the company actually hired you to do, so make sure you’re explicitly laying that out so your boss can make a decision about your continued involvement with that.

      1. Dawn*

        Also note that the ONLY way that it’s going to get better for you is if you’re really, really clearly communicating your workload and the impact that the safety program has on your workload, so don’t sugarcoat it!

  58. TotesMaGoats*

    This week has been a lot of WTF. Finally got a chance to go through the mass of files that ended up in my office and I’m honestly not sure what exactly my predecessor did. It clearly wasn’t anything remotely related to admissions best practices or even common sense. No wonder numbers are in the tank. I’ve gotten some great feedback from coworkers on ideas and suggestions I’ve made. None of this is rocket science by any means but they all seem so astounded. And since this is our busiest time of the year, I’m offering to help in other ways and they all seem so surprised by that. And thankful, like inordinately thankful. And I’m like this is what you do to be a good team player and because I like to be helpful and it usually gives me strings to pull at the future date.

    So, things are getting better here every day. I’m feeling productive and more in control of things. And I did the actual math and I’ll be out of the leave hole by October, so I can take a fall vacation. It’s been hard to adjust from earning leave on an hourly basis with each paycheck to earning it by the day each month with a monthly paycheck. I actually earn slightly more leave but my brain just wouldn’t wrap around it.

  59. Sunshine Brite*

    What’s a good, non-boring way for a fairly large, growing unit to get to know each other? My area is always looking for suggestions as we mainly work remotely from one another and there’s a lot of turnover. We have large group meetings every couple months and they want to encourage getting to know new people in a meaningful way.

    1. Solid B Student*

      Please… no team-building exercises but how about a (voluntary ) off-site luncheon or after work mixer?

      1. Sunshine Brite*

        That’s what I said at the last planning meeting! As well as not going through and individually introducing the 105ish people. The others ended up coming up with 3 less ridic games than I was imagining and remained more focused on work than not work which was nice. We used 1 for the last meeting due to time and people seemed to like it more than I thought they would which was weird. The boss’s boss wanted intros so we had to sit through those again.

        Sept. is going to be a picnic which is awesome. An after work mixer probably wouldn’t fly with all the remoteness and general introvertedness that this job attracts even though I think it’d be fun

        1. Kai*

          Oh man, aren’t those “go around the table and introduce yourself” things the worst? It’s one thing if you have like 5 people or less and knowing one another is actually going to be helpful. But we do it in large groups all the time here and it’s ridiculous.

    2. LBK*

      I’m not sure how remote these people are but could you arrange job shadowing between people in different positions? I like those as opposed to “everyone just get together and be social” events sometimes because they provide a natural way to fill the time, they give you something to talk about if either of you aren’t naturally chatty people and they help the business by giving you more of an appreciation for what your coworkers do. They’re great for people like me who loathe the small talk that usually occurs at mixers or luncheons.

  60. Paige Turner*

    Can anyone tell me if I’m being paranoid here?
    I’m anxious by nature but I’ve always done well at work. I recently landed a job that got me out of my two part-time retail jobs and into office work. The job isn’t in my field and the pay isn’t great, but it seemed like a step in the right direction. I work for a very small consulting company (Company A) as a subcontractor to a larger consulting company (Company B) working for a government agency. I was hired to handle admin work for the overworked project manager from Company B, “Tim,” and his colleagues. I’ve been there a month and while I’ve been given some tasks, I have about 10-15 hours of actual work a week. I’m based in the agency office while most everyone else is remote or in Company B’s office. I’m bored.
    I want to stick it out and build experience, but in the past week, I’ve been getting emails from the owner “Sam” (my boss in the sense of the person who pays me) of Company A, asking for info about what’s going on with Company B. He’s been asking me for details about hiring and the like, and wants me to ask around at Company B, but to not tell them he asked. I have only met Sam once briefly, so while I work for him, I really don’t know him or have an idea of the factors at play here. Sam knows “Tim,” but he doesn’t have a day-to-day role in supervising my work. My coworkers are all from Company B, and I feel uncomfortable “spying” on them for Company A. I don’t mind to give Sam some details here and there, but I’m not privy to higher decision making, and I wouldn’t feel comfortable asking. I feel a bit like a pawn between Sam and Tim. I have an idea of why I work for A and not B (budgeting and contracting reasons), but it still feels odd being the only person from A (and the only non-exempt person, but that’s another thing).
    Am I over-reacting? How should I respond to Sam?

    1. fposte*

      Yeah, that’s weird and unpleasant–you’re not being paranoid. I might go for a shield of cheerful cluelessness. “Their job postings are at this link, and I’m sure Beth in HR would be happy to talk to you about what you want to know. Around the office we mostly just talk about baseball these days–there’s never too much mockery for the Cubs fans!”

    2. The IT Manager*

      Hmmm … I’m sorry I don’t have a great answer. Generally I think anything you see/witness/are aware of you can tell Sam about. If it were proprietary, Company B would keep it hidden from you. Sam is trying to find something out to give Company A an edge. I would tell him what I knew without resorting to asking people direct questions for Sam. But Sam is your boss with the power to fire you.

      1. Paige Turner*

        Thanks to both for the input. I agree that anything that I know can’t be too secret, but thanks for validating that this makes me feel awkward at best. (And so true about mocking Cubs fans- and I’m not even near Chicago!)

    3. Not So NewReader*

      The times I have seen this between competitors it is because the boss who asks the questions feels jealous about the assets a competitor has.

      Since this has been going on for a week, you might get away with pretending not to notice the oddness of the questions. Just answer with what you observe in front of you. If pressed, just tell him that it would look very odd for you to be asking those types of questions and it would not take long for them to figure out that he was having you ask.

  61. Hooligan*

    I escalated an issue with a colleague to my manager this week. I’m a PM, they’re a junior PM. I was asked to support the junior person on a big project. After the first status call, I realized the big project was out of control – no agenda, unclear next steps, promising the client services we don’t offer, suggesting we’d give away services for free. My “support” wouldn’t be enough to salvage it, and I would have responsibility fro the project. Turns out the person’s performance is a known issue, and they were already gathering input to coach them. That said, I’ve been feeling nauseous about this for a day. I actually woke up in the middle of the night and, lay in bed for a couple of hours feeling terrible.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      And they gave you no warning that you were walking into this hornet’s nest? Wow.

      I hope you took something to protect your stomach. And try, try, try to remember you did not cause this problem, Junior Person caused it.

      When the dust settles (I know it will be a while) consider going back to the boss and doing an autopsy here. The primary thing that gets me is that they just sort of threw you into the mess. Ask to have some idea of what is going on, if there ever is a next time.

  62. Folklorist*

    Thanks (and curses!) to whoever recommended Tinykittens.com as a stress-reliever last week. I have spent an unhealthy amount of time watching and waiting for Sisko to have her kittens this week! What a fascinating site–especially the chats with the community of people from all over the world just…watching a pregnant cat sleep.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I think I was the one who mentioned it last week, but someone else here originally mentioned it a few months ago and I’ve been obsessed with it ever since.

    3. kozinskey*

      There are lots of kitten cams out there! I used The Critter Room as stress relief when I was studying for the bar. Foster Dad John is an amazing human being and his interactions with the kittens are absolutely adorable.

    4. Bekx*

      Awww Livestream is blocked at work. I was hoping I could let it play in the background while I did some graphic design work today :(

    5. TinyKittens*

      I think it’s a hoot that both cats had a ginger cat as the last one out. Too cute.

  63. Stranger than fiction*

    Latest sound driving me nuts at office: Nail clipping. So gross, really you need to do that with your door open? And what are your nails made out of, oak?

    2. Paige Turner*

      *Shudder* My sympathies to you. This is possibly worse than my coworker who talks on the phone in the restroom- on speakerphone.
      o_O

      1. Stranger than fiction*

        Thanks for the sympathy and I hope your coworker is not talking to a customer!

    4. Amber Rose*

      Our shipper does this. She has the desk next to mine, and by the sound she either has way more than 10 fingers, or cuts away the tiniest possible amount each time. It takes her ages to finish.

      Or maybe it just feels like an age because it’s so gross.

    5. ACA*

      I sympathize – I’ve got a coworker who does this too. She also talks so loudly on her phone that I can clearly hear her conversations from like 50 feet down the hall.

    6. Nashira*

      Oh god, yeah. A work friend does this and it makes me want to claw my skin off and also strangle them a little.

    7. NacSacJack*

      As I sit here with my long nails that I havent cut because I cant find the fingernail clippers I bought last week and I am not using toenail clippers on fingernails ever again. I swear nail clippers go into the same black hole as sox and other stuff.

      PS I found them in the dishrack this morning. I bought them at the grocery store and unpacked in the kitchen.

  64. Lisbonslady*

    Curious – have many of you given notice and been let go that day? First time for me, yesterday, and I’m a little shell shocked.

    Clearly the place was bad enough that I finally couldn’t take it anymore so maybe I shouldn’t assume they would treat me well on my way out the door! But I was willing to help in any way with the transition. Now I have people so lost because many things only I handled.

    Not my problem now, right?

    1. Stranger than fiction*

      This is somewhat common for Sales roles or other similar positions where they don’t want you pilfering customers before you go.

      1. Lisbonslady*

        Thanks. It was actually an administrative coordinator role connected to an event where I was the main contact for presenters and handled other major projects no one else deals with. Others have given notice and stayed. But then again my manager didn’t speak to me for the rest of the day so who knows what’s going on there.

        1. Stranger than fiction*

          I see so perhaps you were privy to other proprietary information or your boss is just plain butthurt.

          1. Lisbonslady*

            Yes, well, the way she treats everyone on the team is the reason I finally left. I was concerned about wrapping up the work… time to just let it go.

    2. fposte*

      Ouch, I’m sorry, Lisbonslady. I think shell shock is an understandable reaction.

      I’ve heard of it at a lot of places now that we’re all plugged into delicate networks, but I think it’s not a pleasant way to treat people.

    3. Dynamic Beige*

      Yep. Happened to me, I went in to give notice and was told it would be my last day. I was expecting it, though, as it had happened that way to a coworker a couple weeks before. The company had no work and they were somewhat paranoid that I would take company secrets with me (ha!)

      No longer your monkeys, no longer your circus. Have the best weekend ever!

  65. College Career Counselor*

    I’m on a search committee at my current university, and I got the opportunity to question why we ask candidates to provide their salary history earlier this week. This is roughly how it went:

    “Is there any particular reason we ask them to disclose previous salary, other than habit or tradition? I mean, what do we do with this information?”

    “Well, if a salary range that we have in mind is 60-80k for example, and a candidate is only making 40k, we could probably offer 50k and it would be fine with the candidate.”

    “So, it’s a means of gathering information to low-ball candidates on salary, then?”

    “Well, no, but this information is useful to us should the candidate wish to negotiate salary .”

    “So we’re starting off our relationship with candidates on an inherently unequal footing around salary negotiation?”

    “But it works the other way, too. If we know a candidate is making 100k, we can probably assume that s/he isn’t interested in a job paying only half that.”

    “So it’s a way of screening out people who already make too much? If we just gave a salary range–or had a conversation with candidates at the front end of the process–we could handle this much more transparently than we are now.”

    I went on to say that a salary range should be based on what our market analysis says it should be, informed by what our budget can actually support, which the search committee and the HR person in the room did not have a philosophical problem with. It was confirmed that it was optional for candidates to list that information, and some sure did. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to disclose their salary history voluntarily, but I suspect it was because either they thought they had to (fill in all the form blanks) or they thought this disclosure gave them some advantage over others who didn’t follow suit.

    I have no illusions that this conversation is going to change HR’s approach at my university overnight, but it did feel good to raise these issues and hear how other people in the room felt (some said they always disclose the range when they head a search committee) and perhaps the HR person will raise the issue with other folks in the HR hierarchy.

    2. LBK*

      That’s awesome that you at least had the chance to put the idea into the heads of people who can make that change. I doubt many people get the opportunity to be so direct with feedback about their company’s hiring process.

    5. Persephone Mulberry*

      “So, it’s a means of gathering information to low-ball candidates on salary, then?”

      “Well, no, but this information is useful to us should the candidate wish to negotiate salary. ”

      I have no idea what this means other than “well no, but…yes, basically.”

      Good for you for speaking up!

    6. TCO*

      Nice work. If your university is public like mine is, it’s also worth noting that it’s really easy for employees to find out their coworkers’ salaries and realize that their pay isn’t equitable. That’s grounds for the low-balled people to feel disgruntled, think about leaving, or even start making noise about discriminatory practices (I’m not saying you’re discriminating, but you don’t want to give the appearance that you are).

      1. College Career Counselor*

        Good point. We are private, so finding out salary ranges (unless you’re in HR) is much more opaque.

      2. Nashira*

        Oh yeah. I can find out the salary of most public employees in my state with a simple website. You don’t even need complete names for it.

  66. AdAgencyChick*

    You asked, I’m answering…

    I’d been job hunting for several months (and not posting about it here, at least not under my regular handle, because I know at least one person from my agency reads this blog, although I’m not sure whether she reads the comments). There have been some senior management changes that I can only describe as no bueno. The last straw for me was when my awesome boss, who was my layer of insulation between me and what was going on up top, moved to another division of the company. I figured out she was going to do it, asked her to lunch, and basically told her, “I see you have an exit strategy. I need one too.” It was her hope that we’d find one for me within the company, and the wheels started turning, but far too slowly and I felt like my job was not safe under my new boss.

    So I was looking…and looking…and looking. And the well of jobs at my job title was DRY. I talked to everyone I knew at other agencies asking them whether they knew of anything. Nothing. Then a few weeks ago I got a phone call from an agency where I’ve applied a couple of times before, fallen in mutual love with a team, and then suddenly they didn’t have budget for the position any more. Well, they do now! I got along with everyone I interviewed with like a house on fire, and I also know a TON of people at this agency who assured me that this team was not just blowing smoke up my butt about what it’s like to work on this team. My final interview was Tuesday morning, they made me an offer Tuesday evening, and I accepted on the spot and resigned the next day. I am GIDDY with excitement.

    The hilarious thing is, now that I have a job offer, other companies are coming out of the woodwork to ask me, “Are you still looking?” One of them, I had gone to a first interview with on Monday, and they wanted me to meet some more people. I had told them I was far along in the process with the other agency, and they didn’t end up moving fast enough. I was supposed to have a second interview with them next week, which I have since canceled, and they just told me, “The other two people decided they don’t need to meet you because the hiring manager liked you so much, would you consider coming over now?” I said no — both because I don’t want to renege and burn a bridge, but also because I’m genuinely thrilled to accept the first agency’s offer.

    Like I said, I’m giddy!

    10. voluptuousfire*

      It’s like when you start dating someone, that’s when previous suitors and paramours and the like come out with “oh, I always had a thing for you! Too bad you’re not single anymore.”

      1. voluptuousfire*

        And you’re like “where were you two months ago when I was single?!?!”

        That was supposed to be part of the last comment. Accidentally hit submit before I finished up.

  67. LSP*

    Does anyone know if there is a legal requirement to interview X amount of candidates for any position? What if only one person applies for the job?

    My friend applied internally for a position that they created specifically for him but they keep postponing the decision because they said no one else (internally or externally) had applied.

    Google University surprisingly could not give me any clear answers. T.I.A.

    2. Ash (the other one)*

      In government, yes, there are those requirements to an extent. In private sector? Nope. I just went through a hiring process that we needed to fill quickly. We did 2 phone screens, 1 in person interview, and offered that person the job.

    3. Sascha*

      I don’t know about legal, but at my state university (Texas), we’re required to interview 3 candidates for positions open to the public, but I’m not sure we have to do that for those that are open only to the university – which itself is code for “this is a promotion created for an existing employee, so don’t bother applying.”

      We have been in that position before where we had to find 3 people to interview, and for the longest time only 2 applied for our position, so it was really annoying to have to wait, especially when we wanted to make an offer to one of the people we interviewed.

    4. LSP*

      Thanks everyone! This is for a private company in the golden state. I feel like they are just pulling his leg, although maybe they do have an internal policy he isn’t aware of. Such a bummer!

      1. NoCalHR*

        There’s no law in CA that requires a specific number of candidates. However in addition to internal policy/practice, if the hiring company has any union employees, they may have a contractual obligation to meet that bleeds over into non-union positions. We modified our non-union job posting policy to match the union job posting practice, primarily to be even-handed and transparent.

        1. LSP*

          Fascinating! This might totally apply to his situation.

          I wish I knew more about the intricacies of HR… Hmm, I haven’t read Evil HR Lady in a while.

  68. Ash (the other one)*

    This is sort of work related, sort of tangential so if I should wait to the weekend let me know.

    I was just invited to do a TV interview at the end of September when I’ll be over 9 months pregnant. I’m already struggling to look work appropriate with my current wardrobe and don’t want to spend a ton, but also want to look professional on TV! What do I wear? I’ve always been told not to wear all black for media, and the most professional thing I have that fits at this point is a black sheath dress that I could throw a blaze (that would be far from buttoned) over. I could order something from Isabella Olivier, but I hate to spend that much money!

    Ack, help!

    1. Paige Turner*

      Well, would the camera only be filming you from the upper-chest up? If so, focus on that…I think the outfit you describe sounds fine, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wearing an unbuttoned blazer at nine months pregnant! If you want to add color, I think a scarf would do nicely.
      Congrats on the interview and good luck with the baby :)

    2. Diddly*

      Over nine months pregnant? That seems a really weird time to schedule an interview, I mean pregnancies can go over-term so you could have had the baby only very recently, or if you’re lucky had the baby a month ago. Seems unnecessarily stressful – can you ask them to reschedule in light of pregnancy – I mean doing it at 7 or 8 months seems better – dependent on how much your doctor thinks you should move – other issue what if there are medical complications?/caesarian? I mean could they do it in three months after you’ve given birth – and you get contact with them once you’re clearer on dates?

      1. Ash (the other one!)*

        Pregnancies technically last 10 months. It will be 3 weeks before I am due.

    3. Snork Maiden*

      One quick way to look more professional is to have your arms covered, or at least to your elbows. For some reason on TV short sleeves or no sleeves looks even more casual (with a few exceptions that usually prove the rule). Will your blazer look awkward unbuttoned? If not I’d recommend that. If you’re worried about having too much black on, a statement necklace peps things up, although I’d stay away from anything with large reflective surfaces or has a lot of moving elements. Seconding Paige Turner’s scarf recommendation as well.

      I hope your TV interview goes well!

    4. Silver*

      A few things I’ve noticed from working in broadcast for a few years.

      Stay away from green shades and some shades of blue if filming will be in front of a superimposed background/green screen in a studio.
      Stripes tend to read wrong on TV. Avoid if possible as they may end up looking wavy. Tight checks, especially in black and white can also distort a little. Solid colours are the least likely to suffer from any distortion on screen.

      Stay away from sheer or anything that seems flimsy. The lights can make certain fabrics see through. The blazer can help to prevent this. Also nude undergarments if possible again to prevent them showing through the clothes under the lights.

      If you’re still in doubt check out some newsreaders to get styling cues and colour scheme ideas.

  69. Alistair*

    So I’ve had a very busy two months, with several weeks away from home (not all at the same time, fortunately!). These last two days have been tough for me to get going and keep going. I worry I’m burning out. But the problem is, I’m not sure what burn out is like for me. Right now, i feel laziness, not being interested in my work, and am having many fantasies about finding other work or at least being able to do my hobbies.

    So, good people of AAM! Tell me about your burn out warning signs, and what (if anything) you’ve done to combat it, besides taking time off. My job is not done yet, I have to push maybe another week before I could take some time.

    Thanks in advance!

    1. Diddly*

      Hmm I think I had burnout during end of a course I was doing, felt I had taken on too much, and outside in my personal life things were very stressful and there was no solid ground. I was very tired – a lot of the time, I struggled to put work together, and ultimately stopped a couple of weeks before end of year – but that was unique as I’d almost been carrying others who hadn’t been submitting anything. I was tearful – overly emotional – and constantly on edge, it was like I was constantly on the edge of the seat – overly reactive I guess – which meant I was relying on my last nerve. And it felt like that – like I was relying on my nerves – and that I couldn’t keep up much longer. So maybe I was heading for burnout?

    2. over educated and underemployed*

      I’m feeling that right now due to a so-far-unsuccessful job search on top of regular work and having no free time. I’m just so glad I’m taking 3 days off, giving me a 5 day weekend to visit family, which I really really need.

      But if I had a week of additional pushing, my coping strategies are 1) counting down the time, because no matter how busy you are, it keeps passing, yay!, 2) working in little rewards to brighten my day along the way, like “today I get to eat junk food for lunch” or something like that, and 3) keeping in mind something to look forward to after the push is over, like spending a weekend day pursuing a hobby, or having a friend over for dinner, or something. Good luck! The end is nigh!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Warning signs. Can’t sleep at night, can’t stay awake during the day. Moody and trying not to show it then getting more tired from hiding the moodiness. Unusual and embarrassing lack of patience. Eating way to much food (energy has to come from some where, no sleep = more food.) A 15 minute task feels like it takes an hour. Discomfort with driving a car. Annoying little aches and pains.

      What I did- streamlined what I am doing, for example fix two meals at once, put one away for tomorrow. Leave the tv off, skip other time wasters. If I can delegate something at work or at home, I made more of an effort to do so. Refuse to take on any other commitments for my time.

  70. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    I had a written test, followed by detailed phone interview, then interview by 9 principals/attorneys/consultants at a major top teapot firm, last Thursday. The lead said she’d pass my details to the company’s founder the day after (Friday) and that they’d get back to me next week. Well, it’s next week now, 7-8 days passed, no word. What happened, and why don’t they respond, considering they first contacted me in late June, July was the written round, and last week was the 1 hr 20 min in-person I thought went so well? Rg….:/

    1. JMegan*

      Aw, that’s the worst, isn’t it.

      Probably nothing at all happened, other than it’s summer and people aren’t around as much, and things often take longer than we think they will. There are a thousand possible reasons why they haven’t called yet – some of which mean they don’t want to offer you the job, and some of which mean they do want to offer you the job but can’t yet. There’s just no way to know.

      ^^And I know you know all that! It’s so easy to say, when you’re not the one waiting for that phone call. All I can say is, the waiting part sucks, and I hope they get back to you soon.

    2. afiendishthingy*

      That sounds very promising. Don’t read into them not contacting you but do try to move on mentally as Alison suggests, keep applying for stuff. Good luck. Waiting is the worst.

  71. SeveSixOne*

    Let’s talk about the types of people you see over and over again at work. It seems like certain awful personality traits show up again and again at work. How many of these sound like people you’ve worked with?

    -The Agitator, who loves to stir up trouble

    -The Hot Potato, who gets passed around from manager to manager instead of getting fired (often because they *can’t* get fired for Complicated Reasons)

    -The Golden Child, who can do no wrong

    -The Scapegoat, who can do no right

    -The Iron Fist, who insists on Following The Rules No Matter What

    -The Blister, the pain who doesn’t show up until after the hard work is done

    -The Doomsday Prophet, who always assumes the worst

    -The Paul Revere, who can’t keep a secret

    Smaller workplaces often have a single person in more than one role– in the worst job I’ve ever had, the boss was nearly all of these roles in one awful package. In larger organizations, I’ve even noticed that individual DEPARTMENTS sometimes have the roles/reputations above.

    Have you noticed this? What other roles have you seen over and over in your working life?

    1. Not me*

      Agitator! Well, she agitated herself more than anyone else.

      She liked to pit people against each other, shout, hit her desk, and throw things. And she would instigate fights with my other coworker when he was “unprofessional” (he cursed sometimes), which featured more shouting and desk-hitting. She also pitched fits at our manager, who had the gall to be a manager while being a year younger than her, oh no.

      She stormed out one day and was replaced with someone who is extremely calm and easy to get along with. Yay.

    2. Katie the Fed*

      I see a lot of what I call The Tank. They are really smart and really good at getting things done but they have the people skills of a Mongol warrior. Like a tank, they’re effective when used in the right context, but might not be worth the destruction they wreak on everything around them.

      1. SeveSixOne*

        Do you think the Tank is a subset of the Brilliant Jerk we talked about earlier this week, or in a class by itself?

    3. Katie the Fed*

      Unfortunately, I also see a few Den Mothers. Almost always women, they’re the ones who bring in cookies and brownies and clean the fridge and do the party planning.

      I object to them on principle because they’re not doing much to help their own careers OR perceptions of the role of women in the workplace.

      1. SeveSixOne*

        Ugh, yes. Den Mothers are often Paul Reveres too, which is a SUPER FUN (read: not fun at all) combo. /s

        I didn’t want to get too deep into this, but I definitely can’t help noticing that most of these traits are especially common among one specific age/gender/class/whatever group.

    4. GOG11*

      I have a Paul Revere here. He’ll tell me something and then come back later and ask me not to pass it on because he shouldn’t have told me. There’s also an Iron Fist, but he’s got so much institutional knowledge and he’s so approachable and helpful that I appreciate him a lot (though I do tend to have Iron Fist tendencies myself…).

    5. JMegan*

      The Chicken Little, for whom everything is an emergency.

      I’m dealing with one of those right now. My manager has explicitly told me that my job with relation to Chicken Little is to talk her down from the ceiling. It’s fine with me, since I generally only interact with her a couple of times a month, but it must be exhausting for people who work with her all the time!

    6. MaryMary*

      The Overpromiser. The coworker, usually a sales person or relationship manager who says “oh, of course we can do that” to any client request, no matter how bizarre or impossible. Some Overpromisers even double down and manage to make reasonable requests unreasonble: “The client asked if we could have that information to them by next Friday, but I said we’d get it over to them tomorrow.”

      The Overpromiser is never the one who has to deliver on the promises.

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        One Hallowe’en there was a costume party after work. I went to it because… well, you’re sort of supposed to. But, I was going to be working onsite all day so I decided to just go in my suit, it was too much work to come up with some sort of quickie costume. At the party, one of my coworkers came up to me and asked where my costume was. How I managed to spit this out, I have no idea but I said “Are you kidding? I’m the scariest person in this room” gesturing to my suit “… an Account Exec who cannot say ‘no'” I quickly threw out a few examples that were only slightly exaggerated from some things that had happened. They got a look on their face I will never forget and quickly walked away.

    8. Katie the Fed*

      Another one! The Office Dementor: The person who is so negative, whiny, and pessimistic they immediately ruin your day when you talk to them.

      1. Ezri*

        Ugh, I work with one of these. It’s just exhausting, and I always put my headphones on when they wander down my aisle. No matter the context, they always find some way to make a comment about how miserable their lives are and how hard their job is.

      2. MaryMary*

        Mine is more like an Eeyore. So continuously pessimistic and full of gloom and doom that it’s circled back toward being kind of funny.

    9. ConstructionHR*

      Yakkers
      &
      Close Talkers
      &
      We have one guy hear who has done everything, been everywhere, made killer money, told clients to F-off & has about 200 years worth of stories in his 45 y.o. obese, chain-smoking frame.

      1. SevenSixOne*

        The Yakker in my office is named (for example) Midas, and he’s so notorious for yakking that I use “Midased” as shorthand for “trapped in a poinless boring nonversation with someone who won’t shut up”.

        I hate it when I have to ask Midas for anything, because something that would take 30 seconds with anyone else is at least five minutes with the Midas touch.

    10. the_scientist*

      The Trainwreck- the person whose personal life is in shambles and can’t help bringing their personal business into work. Features: carrying on loud phone conversations of a very personal nature in a public area, telling anyone who will listen about their latest Relationship Drama, and creeping boyfriends/dates/exes on Facebook and parsing their status updates with colleagues. Woe be unto the poor soul who sits near this person.

      1. QualityControlFreak*

        Oh dear, we have one of these. In addition to relationship drama, we get to hear all about their medical history and current health issues (soooo many health issues). They are extremely loud and there is no way to opt out of receiving this unwelcome information. This person is also a Slacker who misses prodigious amounts of work, and I’m sure they believe they cannot be let go because “Medical Issues” are sacrosanct. Basically it appears they want to not work but still be paid. When they are on the clock they do more socializing/personal business than work. I have actually compared working with this person to watching a train wreck up close and in slow motion.

    11. OfficePrincess*

      I’m not sure what you’d call a cross between an Agitator, Iron Fist (who only gets the rule right 50% of the time) and Drama Lama, but if you think of a name, I’ve got one.

    12. Kai*

      The Hulk, who growls and pounds his fist on the desk and angrily grumbles when anything even mildly irritating happens.

    13. Goat Scape*

      +1 to departments having these reputations.

      I worked for a company’s Golden Child department, then got Hot Potato-ed to the Scapegoat department when the owner died.

      That was fun :(

  72. Blue Anne*

    Here in the UK, it’s a couple of minutes to 5. Most of my office has already left. I’m sitting here studying for the retake of a Tax exam for my accountancy qualification – we all do the same one in my firm and it’s incredibly embarrassing to me that I failed it, even though everyone’s being nice about it.

    If I fail it again (which I think I might) I won’t get fired, but I will be the first person who has ever failed an exam twice and not gotten fired, thanks to a policy change. Theoretically, I can take the exam up to four times, but if I fail it again I feel like it would be kinder for them to fire me and just let me find a new job at a second-tier firm.

    If you had a colleague in the office in my (potential) position, how would you see them? Someone who has failed more exams than you were allowed to fail without losing their job? I feel like my colleagues would all think I’m not really good enough.

    1. Chris*

      Honestly, I’d just assume you don’t test well. I test really well, and I know that’s not entirely usual. I’d probably have sympathy that you were struggling. (I’d tell you if I would be a jerk about it, too.) This is all assuming you’re good at your job. If you were incompetent AND you failed the exam, then I’d judge. But it would be based off your general incompetence, not the exam.

      1. Blue Anne*

        Luckily, I seem to be competent. Or that’s what my performance manager tells me. :)

        Thank you.

    2. Diddly*

      I think you’re being very hard on yourself, which won’t help you study, which is your priority. Focus one what you can do to pass on the second round, perhaps one of your colleagues can help you study? Or you could get a tutor? Do practice exams?
      I think make it a priority to study for this exam. Thinking about anything else will cause unnecessary stress – you can’t know what your colleagues are thinking. I doubt the rules were changed specifically for you, but they were changed so the company must have thought they were losing valuable employees due to it. – If it was changed due to you – then you’re definitely a valued employee.
      If you do fail the second exam, take it as it comes, don’t instantly demote yourself. But key point – is you’re thinking kind of like a depressed person. All or nothing thinking, deciding other people’s thoughts that you can’t possibly know, predicting the worse, and being overly hard on yourself. Would you act the same way to a colleague or friend?
      Please focus on the exam and being kind to yourself, not what others think.

      1. JMegan*

        I agree with all of this. Take deep breaths, as many as you need, and focus on the task at hand. If you have time, try to get some exercise before the exam – even a long walk can be good if you don’t have a usual routine. And above all, as Diddly said, be kind to yourself.

      2. Blue Anne*

        Studying for the exam is definitely a priority. I’ve gotten extra material from the institute, a big pack of new exam-standard questions to practice on. And I’m being good about giving myself breaks. I had a nice movie night with my boyfriend last night, I’m doing a bit of internet browsing every couple hours. But it’s so hard to not beat myself up, and when I start doing that it’s difficult to get motivated again.

        On the “thinking like a depressed person” – yes, I’m in treatment for anxiety and I’m worried that it has morphed. :(

        I have therapy tomorrow so I will talk about this with my therapist, who is wonderful at giving me perspective and making me *actually* believe it.

        1. Diddly*

          Glad you’ve got someone to talk to – I just recognised certain patterns that I’m prone to and have to talk myself out of – good luck!

      3. Not So NewReader*

        Agreed. You are focusing on what people will think and not focusing on what you need to know for the test. This trap will get you if you let it.

        Whatever people think- so what. Who cares. Next year it might be their turn to retake the exam, and what will you think of them? You’ll probably quietly say “BTDT” and never mention it to them, which leaves them wondering what YOU think! See, it’s a pit. Don’t fall in it.

        What is really important here is what you think of you. Positive mental imaginary is needed here. Picture yourself, you have finished the test and you get The Word: PASSED! Get that picture in your head and every time you have a negative thought make yourself look at that picture in your head.

    3. Carmen Sandiego JD*

      I’d see them as strong in the knowledge, just not in test-taking scenarios. Case in point: I personally failed 3 bar exams re: attorney licensure. Despite this, I have a masters as well as a JD, and have a superb writing position for a major billion dollar strategy initiative. It is possible to be successful/have a job having failed the exam. But what really matters is how you distinguish yourself in your area–do you have a specialty? And what are your long-range career goals?

      (Also, note that your family may not be supportive b/c of the supposed “failures.” Mine aren’t and they keep trying to give me job ads despite the fact I’m perfectly happy where I am).

      1. Blue Anne*

        My specialty is Audit, and I seem to be doing okay at it. My performance reviews are fine, occasionally good. Long term, I think I really want to get out of here, dye my hair pink and just do accounting for all my freelancer buddies from a coffee shop. So…. I shouldn’t really be too worried about what kind of promotion potential I’m building up or anything, but it’s still hard.

        Luckily, my mom is very supportive, but mostly because she wants me to have a graduate qualification. I’m the only one in the family with no PhD. She likes telling me about how in the week before her bar exam, she was studying so much she put her hard contacts in the wrong eyes and went temporarily blind, and they brought my grandma in to the read the questions out and she touch-typed the answers on a typewriter. And she passed. (Yes, she did that and *then* a PhD.)

        It’s that kind of support. :/

        1. F.*

          Sounds like you could even be self-sabotaging. Passing this test seems to be more about living up to your mother’s expectations than what YOU really want to be doing. In the long run, your happiness depends on what you want, even if it is having pink hair and doing your friends’ accounting.

    4. Chorizo*

      Good luck on your exam! The REG section of the CPA exam was my hardest. And it sucks to have to study when it’s the weekend and the weather is nice.

    5. Ezri*

      I think it depends on the context, honestly. I test really well, but I understand that not everyone does. In my experience, professional tests (for certifications and such) have been much more difficult to pass than tests in school. I think that’s because in school you take a class on Chocolate Teapot Spouts, and then you take a test on Chocolate Teapot Spouts. But in order to get certified in Chocolate Teapots, you might have to be equally informed about Chocolate Teapot Spouts, Bases, Handles, and Widgets. And you might not actually use all those concepts day-to-day as a Chocolate Teapot Designer.

      In short, I wouldn’t think less of you. My manager, who has been doing Teapot Design for decades, recently attempted the Core Teapot Design certification exam in our field without studying and didn’t pass. I studied for two weeks and failed the same exam with double my manager’s score, but that certainly doesn’t mean I know more about the topic.

      I failed my driving test the first time, too. I know it’s not all the same thing, but failing a test doesn’t make you inadequate or mean you will never be decent at something. Just do your best, and if anyone is looking down on your for failing then they’re jerks. If the policy says you can fail without getting fired, and your work performance is otherwise good, I wouldn’t worry about it.

    6. Apollo Warbucks*

      I took my financial reporting exam 3 times, my collegue tooks one ACCA exam 5 times. Don’t let it bother you, just do what you can and prepare the best you can.

      Good luck for the exam

  73. Diddly*

    I’m looking at some PA jobs which sound good and don’t seem to require previous PA experience – just admin, which I have, and the industry which – ditto.
    Just wondering what sort of things to highlight in cover letter – regarding admin work that might translate into being a good PA? Or from PAs out there (or people who rely on PAs) what makes a great PA? Thanks!

  74. Feeling Vindicated*

    Just want to share with everyone something that’s made my week! I overheard my coworker complaining about the major issues raised in her performance review. They were she’s too noisy and she takes too many sick days. Hurray! I’m so happy my boss actually noticed that she takes a lot of sick days and actually addressed it in her performance review so that it’s documented and HR and our director will see it. I feel optimistic that there is fairness in the world. My coworker takes a sick day every few weeks. Just last month, she was away on 3 different occasions for a cold, a headache, and a migraine. It would be more believable if it wasn’t like this every month or if she would actually just offer to do some work from home when she feels better. Her migraines, which are legitimately debilitating, only happens a couple of times a year, which means that she gets a cold, virus, whatever every other week. Every time someone in the office falls sick, lo and behold, she’s takes a sick day right after. And she plays it up every time someone so much as coughs or sneezes (“Oh, are you sick? I heard there’s a nasty flu/stomach bug/whatever going around. Now you’re going to give it to us!”). Never mind that no one else gets sick.
    Anyway, I felt like an insensitive ogre for being annoyed at her taking sick days (as I have to take care of her work because she’s away) but she does it so often so now I feel so vindicated that someone else, even our boss, has brought it up.

    1. Katie the Fed*

      A lot of times employees think nothing is being done about problematic behavior. If we’re doing our jobs as managers, the employee’s coworkers will never know there’s action being taken. So it sounds like your boss is doing a good job.

      1. Feeling Vindicated*

        Yes, she’s a good manager to me. But my coworker has been here for 10 years and still acts really unprofessional. Her work is good, but her behaviour isn’t. Anywhere else, and she would be fired for what she does, which is why I lack faith that her issues are being addressed by management. I’m glad to find that at least some issues are!

    2. LSP*

      I was just thinking about this, sick leave in general I mean.

      “Sally” will end up taking 6 days of sick/personal time in 2 months. She legitimately has dentist and medical appointments, takes an immediate family member to the doctor, and…has an interview (but no one needs to know that!). The rest of the year she takes sick time here and there. Why does Sally feel so guilty?! What is the point of sick/personal time if every time you request it you cringe?

      It definitely sounds like your coworker was/is piggybacking off the illness of others though. F that. I think it’s easy to tell when others are taking advantage of the situation. Then again, this blog has taught me that we don’t always know what’s going on behind the scenes.

      1. Feeling Vindicated*

        Yup, my coworker is a single woman living on her own. She’s in her 30s, and yet she takes more sick days than staff who’re in their 40s and 50s with children and family to look after. And we can take 2 hours off for dental and medical appointments any day, so there’s no need to book a whole day off for several appointments. You can just leave early or come late or just pop over to a clinic during the day if you have an appointment. And if you do need a whole day for several appointments at once, you don’t need that many full days off in such a short time! It frustrates me when people just play the system because they, well, just push the boundaries enough but never enough to actually be in the wrong.

        1. Diddly*

          Don’t feel it’s relevant that she’s single and lives on her own. She could also have family members/friends that are sick need/help. Although it sounds she’s misusing the sick-days. But being single and living alone doesn’t mean you’re less entitled to sick days or have anything less going on in your life.
          Although it’s funny because we had a post not that long ago complaining about people coming in when they’re sick – and being told to use their sick days.. Giving her the benefit of the doubt-she could have a really poor immune system and the people she’s complaining about that are sick are the ones who should use their sick days?

          1. Feeling Vindicated*

            No, she gives us the reason why she’s taking the sick day. It’s not because of family members, it’s always because she’s got a cold, a headache, that nasty stomach bug, etc. As for the coworkers who are sick, it’s obvious to everyone when they are coming down with something and are told to stay home and rest. They sound congested the day before or just look pale or flushed and leave early. She, on the other hand, always seems normal until the day of, when she’s suddenly down with a cold, stomach bug, whatever. Occasionally, no one would bat an eye–people do get sick, after all. But every two or three weeks? Just because there are instances when people come in when they’re sick doesn’t mean that people don’t stay home when they’re not sick and just don’t feel up to work. I’m not a suspicious, mistrusting ogre, just someone who now rolls my eyes when I come into work to find out that this coworker is away sick again for the third time this month.

            1. QualityControlFreak*

              Try Every. Single. Week. And you get to cover for them. Fun times. It does sound like management is managing here. Change doesn’t happen overnight.

          2. Anonsie*

            Seriously. Whenever someone comes in where I work saying they tamped down their fever with Tylenol or assuring us they haven’t vomited since the night before or whatever, I get very frustrated. I frequently catch whatever people bring into the office, it’s not fun. I point it out because I’m hoping it will inspire people to stop coming in sick, but no such luck.

      2. MaryMary*

        Well, and I have a friend who is just, I don’t know, sickly. She catches every bug that goes around, gets strep a couple times a year, and has a tempermental digestive system. She’s been like this since she was a child. In high school, they threatened to hold her back a year because she missed so many days (her grades were fine). Could she power through the sniffles or a headache sometimes? Probably. But she’d still miss a ton of days when she’s physically too ill to work.

  75. Katie the Fed*

    I’m going to have to start setting some boundaries at work. I have a couple different seniors who have pulled me in to advise on special projects they’re working. One of them I let my ego get the better of me – it was a hugely flattering offer and I should have said no because I just don’t have the time but I agreed to it and now I regret it. It’s going to be a major time suck for the next few weeks, all because I occasionally love being part of high-level things. Sigh.

    1. Christy*

      It sounds worth it, though! It’s the kind of thing that’ll help you in the future. (Are you interested in advancing further, or are you happy where you are?)

      1. Katie the Fed*

        Maybe? I haven’t been feeling terribly ambitious lately – more content to just stay where I am and enjoy having a life. I’ve done the making-myself-indispensable thing and it just left me exhausted. So I have to find the happy medium :/

        1. fposte*

          I think you’re right that there are stages. The “Never say no” stage (okay, almost never) is really useful, but you can’t keep it up forever, and now you’ve moved past it.

  76. Anonymous in the South*

    Is it ever appropriate to tell the “big boss” that a department manager is terrible, even if BB really likes that manager? He doesn’t respect her for her managing skills (which are nonexistent), her mind or her work- I think he’s mainly attracted to her but hasn’t acted upon it because he can’t catch her between husbands and he is married. I think she knows he is attracted to her and uses it to her advantage. She is a horrible manager- people are constantly leaving her department, but he’s too busy looking at her breasts and butt to notice. Would pointing out that 8 people have left her department in 6 months help or should I just not worry about it?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      sounds like all risk and no gain. You’re pretty sure he’s not going to do anything about it so there’s nothing to be gained

    2. Mike C.*

      Firing her would ethically open him up to having an affair without violating conflict of interest issues though…

      /Just stirring the pot!

    3. ConstructionHR*

      Maybe ask him, with your best look of consternation/perplexity, if he had any idea why the turnover was so high in your department??

    4. peanut butter kisses*

      The kind of person who doesn’t notice the high turnover isn’t going to appreciate the heads up. The evidence is there, the eyes aren’t working.

  77. Gingerbread*

    Are there any jobs out there that combine business and computer science? My best friend is a business major and has taught herself computer programming. She wants to find a job that combines both fields, but can’t seem to find any, so I thought I’d ask here.

    2. LBK*

      Sounds like a business analyst – you need the business skills to be able to translate business needs into changes, and you need the technological skills to be able to build and implement those changes.

      1. Blue Anne*

        Yes, this is what my husband does. Gingerbread, it sounds like your friend is building up a great skillset to be a business analyst.

    3. Marcela*

      Maybe, and I am very vague because it’s something somebody told me, not something I’ve done, data forecasting? It needs computational resources, to analyze data and create intelligible reports and plots, but also needs understanding of business, strategies and goals.

    4. Some*

      Yes, Business Intelligence Analyst, for example. I’m actually looking for people with business and computer science background for our team. The problem is that is very hard because most people are good at one or the other and almost never at both.

  78. Trixie*

    I received some info on Cactus Global, specifically on freelance writers and editors. Has anyone worked with them before? I’d assume you need a strong science background but maybe not if it’s smoothing out the translations.

  79. The Cosmic Avenger*

    Thanks, Alison, for having the Cover Letter tag! I submitted an application for a Federal job, and before I did I touched up my cover letter based on what I read there. I have one that I used for other Federal jobs in my field that are for very similar divisions, so I really didn’t *need* to change anything other than the name and address, but I think the tweaks really made it more readable.

    And I was surprised how much quicker it was to apply now than just a few years ago! No writing KSAs, just rating yourself on the tasks.

  80. Zee*

    Okay folks. How do you prefer to use vacation time? I’m in my first full-time real job and have scads of vacation time to use up because I have no actual idea the best way to use it. Do you prefer to take smaller bites, large chunks or accrue until you’re desperate? I don’t think it matters much, but I have two weeks to use before December and very few compelling events in my life to use it before then, so I kind of feel forced to do so, but want it to be effective and kind to my coworkers.

    1. Katie the Fed*

      All of the above!

      I love a long weekend. I love a day off in the middle of the week. I love taking a big block at a time. It depends what I need it for.

      Really I just love when I’m not working :)

      But for you – I’d maybe do a few 4-day weekends and then a week off at once.

    2. GOG11*

      I’m in my first full-time job that offers two weeks of vacation for the year. Initially, I thought ZOMG SO MUCH TIME! But now I wish I had more. Ideally, I’d love to have two weeks to use at once, and then another week or two that I could use in chunks. I’d use the time on a few of three-day weekends a year, either to have a long weekend to relax, or to use Friday to get stuff done so I could relax on Saturday and Sunday. I would use a chunk or two to get projects or deep cleaning done. Or I’d just take like a three-week vacation and use the first few days to deep clean and the rest of the time to bask in the products of my cleaning and organizing glory. Granted, I work in a field that has a three-month-long notoriously slow season, so this wouldn’t work for many jobs.

      Back to the real world…I ended up using up a couple of days here and there (court day, long weekend) and then horded everything else and took an awkwardly-structured 1.5 week vacation.

      1. Diddly*

        I guess the way to expand it is to schedule it around times when there are nationwide holidays anyway so you feel like you’re stretching you’re vacation time out.

        1. GOG11*

          I did end up doing that for the 1.5 week holiday. It was my first time taking a vacation, so I didn’t realize how short it would feel. I’m going to ration better this year, and continue to take advantage of organization-wide holidays.

    3. Sandy*

      I used to love taking long weekends here or there. In my latest job, that has been a recipe for disaster. I wind up answering “emergency” calls the whole time.

      Now I wind up taking a two to three week chunk of time. If I do that, people actually have to make contingency plans and work around that time.

      Not my preferred method, but I like it better than traipsing around Rome a few years ago answering calls on my Blackberry.

    4. Ama*

      For me it really depends on what’s going on at work — I can’t relax on long vacations if I know there’s going to be a mountain of tasks to handle when I return, so I schedule those for when my workload is less urgent. But I’ve found that when it is possible to carve out a three or four day weekend in the middle of a busier period (my crunch times tend to last 2-3 months) it can really help keep my stress levels manageable.

      However, I find I need at least one 5+ vacation day chunk every 6-8 months or all the three day weekends in the world won’t save me from turning into a stressed out mess. I’ve been really bad about not taking this into consideration the past couple of years, but I’m trying to do better going forward.

    5. SL*

      I’ve been banking it, but I’ll be using a day to extend my September trip past the long weekend. It helps that I’m on a 9/80 schedule and so I get every other Friday off… it really helps with banking the time up for a longer trip because I don’t have to use PTO to get a long weekend to recharge.

    6. Ad Astra*

      You have to use it before December, or you have to use it by the end of the year?

      I like to save a couple of days to use around Thanksgiving and Christmas so I can travel to see my family. That’s something to consider.

      Beyond that, I’d suggest take one full week off to take a real vacation — go somewhere cool if you can afford it, or stay home and catch up on household things if you can’t.

      Then use the rest to extend some key weekends. A weekend at the lake? A football game at your alma mater? Some kind of music or food festival that starts on a Friday?

    8. the_scientist*

      Oh, this is me too! And I feel terrible about even slightly suggesting it’s a problem because I have seriously amazing vacation time. I have like 14 days I still need to schedule in before the end of December -I’ve already booked off the week between Christmas and New Year’s and taken two extra-long weekends! Part of my problem is that I’m saving up for two bigger trips next year so I don’t have a ton of money available for a trip now, and I don’t really want to spend 4-5 days bumming around my apartment (plus my SO doesn’t have as much time as me, so we wouldn’t be able to do something together)- for whatever reason that feels like a “waste” of vacation time to me. On the other hand, I could play tourist in the city, do appointments and errands, and just relax. Taking random days off seems less “wasteful” but I also usually don’t find them that relaxing- like I just end up spending the whole day grocery shopping and cleaning and then I’m like “well, gotta go back to work tomorrow….”

    9. Jen RO*

      I’m in Europe, so it’s fast (2-3 hours by plane) to get to lots of cool countries, so I usually take a couple of long weekends (usually Friday to Tuesday) for a city break, and two longer holidays (one in summer – this year we’re going to Italy for 9 days – and one on winter to just veg out for the holidays).

  81. stellanor*

    My team is being reorganized and I’m either going to get shuffled onto a different team with a manager I don’t know or get stuck doing my least-favorite kind of work that I was trying to move away from. :/ The latter seems more likely from what my boss is saying. I’m updating my resume and getting my LinkedIn current just in case, because I don’t think I can last more than six months assigned primarily to Task I Actually Loathe.

    2. Brownie Queen*

      I was having the same issue with this site. I went and blocked all plugins so the autoplay ads that change etc. no longer affect me and I don’t get bounced back up to the top of the page all the time.

      I am using a Chromebook

  83. work,work,work*

    How do you manage people who always take the victim position and basically always says “it’s someone else’s fault” that they were not able to do a certain task? I’ve tried to explain that it is their responsibility but they seem to think that if they just do the first action (for example, they’ll call person X to get information and leave a message) that is “doing their job”. When the job is actually to get the information, no matter how many calls it takes (not that many usually, and it’s more like they forgot to call back than anything malicious). I don’t want to keep reminding them of it. I am obviously not getting the point across but am not sure what I am doing wrong here. It is a bit the culture of the institution (higher education, very unionized) and they have been here much longer than me and no one seems to ever get any sort of trouble ever, so there is also that going on in the background.

    1. Diddly*

      Can you give them a deadline when you require this information by, and that you won’t accept excuses for not having it by then? And be clear their job is to get the information not to wait on other people to do it for them. It isn’t x’s job to call them back. Also why couldn’t they email or go round to that person and see them – arrange a meeting, or talk to someone. Or research?
      I guess you could explain that you expect some initiative. But if there are no consequences – and it sounds like they’re unmotivated, I’m not sure how you make it happen.
      But the first step might just be not being nice. Say you wont accept excuses – shut it down when she starts, and say you expect the information you requested, no matter how they have to get it.

    2. fposte*

      If they report to you, you still get to manage them. So when they say “Well, I called X and left a message” you can say calmly “We’ve talked about the fact that your job is to not merely to call but keep communicating until you get the information. Why didn’t you do that?” And then shut up let her tell you why she didn’t do that. Don’t let her derail by talking about other people. “My expectation is that you will call, email, or walk to their office and acquire the needed information in the stated timeframe whether they return your first call or not. Merely calling means you haven’t completed the task and aren’t doing the job. Do you understand what I’m saying the job is? Can you do that job?”

    3. Dr. Doll*

      You clearly work where I do. It’s a total pain, but I think you may need to keep a running list of what you ask the person to do, and check in with them on a regular basis. Also, say clearly that if you need to have this conversation more than a couple more times, it will need to go into their yearly evaluation (For all the good it does). I’m really sorry for you, because you’re right, in a unionized higher ed environment, it’s very, very difficult to really address a performance problem.

  84. Hlyssande*

    My group moved to new desks this week (one row over) in prep for some renovations and a move after that…and I keep walking down the wrong aisles.

    I’ve walked down the old one twice and another one twice so far this morning. Good job, me!

    1. AcidMeFlux*

      Just wait till you move to a new house and leave work going home to the old house….

      1. Nanc*

        Yeah, parking in the driveway and having the new owner come out and give you the stink eye. . . really, I’m not usually that flaky! At least I wasn’t at the door wondering why the key wasn’t working.

      2. Hlyssande*

        I have done that, but with apartments.

        Hopefully I’ll get the new location into my muscle memory before too long. It’s too weird not to turn into the old row.

  85. aNoN*

    I am struggling with something that is eating me up. I am the most junior person on my team. A lot is expected of me and the environment is very fast paced. There is a manager on my team I work with on most of my responsibilities with. I really like this person but this person is so controlling and overwhelming. Everything is nitpicked to no end. I get a lot of requests from this person which I am happy to help with but half the time this person ends up doing the work themselves after I submit the final work to this person because what I submit even after careful, discussion, check ins, and what not. Sometimes we have discussions initiated by questions about the business from this person and my answers are never satisfactory.

    I think this manager is as lost as I am. Our group is directly under our executive management and we are expected to be knowledgeable, efficient, and deliver accurate results no matter what. I think this person feels just as overwhelmed and lost as I do so controlling my work is perhaps a relief. Who knows, maybe I am over analyzing this. Our direct manager has structured our group so that this manager and I team up on most projects. This manager is awesome in many ways and I learn a lot but lately I feel like a hamster in a wheel just trying to keep up with my own work on top of the projects we work on together.

    I have gotten to the point where I no longer challenge anything and just do what I am told. I feel like my list of to do’s grows twice as long as I can check things off. Basically, I hate my job. I have my list of to do’s, projects I work on with this manager, and things that would be nice to do but I probably won’t get to. This position is so un-fulfilling. I work for a multi billion dollar corporation that shoves their values down our throats like well, a cult. I like the pay and benefits and I am only a couple years out of college so I need a solid track record on my resume. As soon as I finish my CPA, I am outta here. I don’t even want to bother looking for another role in the same company. My boss is always traveling and means well when he does try to help but I am unhappy and nothing can change that.

    How can I stay focused until I pass all my CPA sections? Any advice on dealing with this situation??

    1. Christy*

      Are you able to leave work at work? I’d focus on really separating work and home and building a fulfilling home life. Sorry it’s so unpleasant.

    2. fposte*

      I think you’ve got some really good perspective given how stressful the situation is–that observation about your manager being as lost as you are is a very thoughtful one.

      But overall I’m just agreeing with Christy. Disengage, identify your own internal goals so you can define some things as success for yourself, watch your savings grow. If you had one or two specific requests to articulate to your manager, I’d say that might be worth talking with her about, but it sounds like this is a general culture that she couldn’t fix even if she had the skills, which she doesn’t.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      FWIW, regarding a person redoing all your work: I have asked if I could be given something that did not need redoing. I have pointed out that if someone re-does my work it’s a waste of company payroll for me to work on it. I have even asked “why am I here?”

      I have found that it is a tough nut to crack, if someone wants to keep redoing your work, they will for quite a while. So if you go this route of asking questions to stir up the thinking then be prepared to do it for a while. The compulsion to redo is a deeply rooted thing. Just my opinion, though.

  86. aNoN*

    WHOOPS! CORRECTION:
    *Everything is nitpicked to no end. I get a lot of requests from this person which I am happy to help with but half the time this person ends up doing the work themselves after I submit the final work to this person because what I submit even after careful, discussion, check ins, and what not turns out to not be what this person was actually asking for

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Ugh.
      If you are checking in that much and she see the product in process then I would say it’s her not you. I have had a lot of people check in with me and never had a person fail who did the check ins. Likewise, I have checked in when I did not know, and had similar results. The end item is just fine.

      I suspect you are dealing with a person who likes to test your ESP, as in “Guess what I REALLY want?”

      The next time a task/project “fails”, tell her that this happens often in spite of frequent check ins. Tell her you want to do a good job the first time and ask what the you can do differently going forward. Keep the question handy. Say it each time she tells you that you have failed for some reason.

      You may wear her down.

      But mostly, what I get from this technique is the satisfaction of knowing I am sincerely trying to do a good job. It’s exhausting. Take care of yourself.

  87. Dulcinea*

    Advise please: I sent a document to a more senior colleague for their review. It is a PDF that I scanned. Because it kept jamming the machine when I tried scanning it the right way, I scanned it upside down. When you open it it takes maybe 2 seconds to click the arrows in adobe and re-orient it so you can read it. The colleague emailed me to say he can’t read it because its upside down. Should I:
    (a) Just figure out how to correct it and resend without saying anything? If I do this, is there a way to fix this without re-scanning the document? (IE, to “save” the orientation)

    (b) Write back and suggest he try re-orienting it with the arrow buttons in adobe? If I should do this, how do I phrase it nicely? I think this guy may be pretty behind the times as far as technology is concerned and maybe he really doesn’t know how to do this, but I am not sure. He’s working from home today so maybe his home computer has some weird old software or something?

    2. Diddly*

      I’d go for 2. Just say I’m really sorry I had loads of trouble with the machine to get it to scan at all, I found you can re-orient the document by doing x and then it should be the right way up. If that doesn’t work I can see if the machine has unjammed and try and send it again.

      (But really how difficult is it to re-orient a pdf)

    3. Dulcinea*

      Thanks everyone. It turns out there is a way to permanently fix this in Adobe- go to file, pages, rotate pages and then be sure to save your changes. Now when you open it it will be the correct orientation, whereas if you had just rotated it using the little arrows at the bottom of the window, those changes would not be saved. So I fixed it and re-sent including a small explanation; hopefully he will appreciate learning something new and convenient (ie, that you can rotate the view of a document).

      1. fposte*

        To be honest, I would actually expect the person sending it to me to have rotated the document. Presentation is on the sender, not the recipient. I’d be really taken aback to get instructions on rotation rather than a corrected document, too.

        2. Kerry (Like the County In Ireland)*

          I would too. I scan a lot of books and before I send the file I make sure the pages are all the same direction and legible.

      2. OfficePrincess*

        Hmm good to know. I have a few things that are upside down or sideways that I’ve just learned to deal with. Normally I just need to look at one piece quickly, so I don’t find it worth it to click the rotate button, wait for my screen to adjust, click it again, wait again and then see what I need.

      3. Shell*

        I’m with fposte here. I know this is a tiny thing but honestly if I were your colleague, I’d expect you to have figured out how to present the document properly, whether that was wrestling the copier into submission or reorienting the scan after. I wouldn’t have messaged you about it because I do know how to reorient pages in Adobe, but I would’ve expected you have done it and would’ve been a bit surprised that you hadn’t.

    4. peanut butter kisses*

      We run into that problem a lot in the library. A patron will call to have something scanned out of a book and we can only fit the books a certain way on the scanner in order to not crack the book spine and damage the book. It is challenging to orient each page before we send it.

      1. Dulcinea*

        Would context make a difference to anyone who is saying I should have just corrected it the first time (fwiw, I thought I had fixed it the first time but turns out I was wrong) ?

        The context is that colleague and I are lawyers working together on a very complicated civil suit. I am lead counsel (even though he is more senior) and he just provides some guidance/advice/alternate perspective. There are about 15 things on fire right now, and 5 that are starting to smoke (and colleague knows this). We are being inundated with paper from the other side. There are at least 12 opposing counsel, not including their secretaries, paralegals, and first-year associates not named in the signature blocks on the brief. On our side, its just me and one other guy who isn’t even really required to share responsibility 50-50 (because Internal Politics). And I don’t have any admin support, at all.

        Based on his response when I sent the corrected docs I think he really didn’t know how to reorient the doc himself, so I see why he asked me to. BUT assuming you were someone who did know how to re-orient, would you feel less annoyed receiving an upside-down doc from a colleague, knowing the circumstances? Or is it a matter of principle?

        1. Shell*

          This is such a non-issue in most cases–even without the context of fifteen fires to handle–that I don’t think I’d even have gotten to annoyance, frankly. More like an “oy!” and move on with my life. In general, if I received such a doc I’d have a brief thought of “that’s sloppy” and move on (reorient/save the doc) and probably wouldn’t even mention it unless sloppiness is a pattern with the person who had sent me that particular document.

          So my answer is a bit of both. Would I be annoyed by receiving an upside-down doc? Barely, if at all. Do I think it is the responsibility of the sender to orient their docs correctly before sending? Yes.

          Knowing the circumstances grants you more leniency, but again, my initial reaction without the context would only be surprise/half an iota of annoyance at most. But in general, yes, I do expect the sender to check what they’re sending.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          It could be me. As a sender, I would feel the onus was on me to twig that. However, as a recipient, I would not say anything unless it happened a few times.

  88. Ann Furthermore*

    I traveled last week to help the users I’ve been working with over the last year and a half through their first month end close after implementing a new ERP system.

    They paid absolutely no attention during any of the testing events, which was painfully obvious. I worked 110 hours last week trying to get through the train wreck.

    I thought for a long time about how I’d describe it to someone who doesn’t do this kind of work. What I came up with was this:

    Imagine trying to coordinate a bunch of 6 year olds on unicycles that are constantly being distracted by puppies.

    It’s always a challenge, and always stressful, but this was way beyond anything I’ve ever experienced before.

  89. Audiophile*

    Another busy Friday in here.

    It looks like a I should be receiving an offer or two very soon. Here’s what’s making me nervous:

    I interviewed with an organization early last month. I didn’t hear anything for weeks, until a reference let me know at the end of the month that they’d been contacted. Right after that, the organization got back in touch to ask about a second round where I would complete some tests. I called back and was told they’d be in touch that afternoon, they did not get in touch. A few days later the reference got back in touch to let me know they’d spoken with the organization. The org got back in touch to say they were having trouble getting in touch with my other references and could I provide some more. I obliged and hoped that an offer was in the works. Then yesterday I got an email that they’d reached out and were waiting to hear back but was I available in the interim to take some tests.

    This all seems out of order to me. I’ve never had an org contact references and then ask about a second round. Usually reference aren’t contacting until interview process has finished. I’m starting to worry, since last year I took a job and it fell apart so disastrously within a month. I definitely don’t want to go through that again.

    I had a second round yesterday with a different non-profit, who emailed within a few hours asking for references and saying they’re very interested. They’ve been very clear about their process and what they’re looking for and they’ve moved relatively quickly without a lot of back and forth.

    I’m just curious has anyone gone through what I’m going through with the first organization. It just feels very unclear.

    1. Swarley*

      I haven’t gone through something similar, but that does seem out of order to me. It sounds like they might be doing reference checks to help determine who comes in for a “final round.” It strikes me as a little unorganized, but not enough to opt out of consideration (assuming the rest of the process has gone smoothly). And I definitely wouldn’t put anything on hold waiting for an offer. Perhaps the 2nd organization will move quickly and you’ll be stuck evaluating two fine offers.

      1. Audiophile*

        There was no mention of a second round in the first interview, so that’s part of what’s throwing me off.
        Besides that, when my follow up message was ignored, I figured they’d hired someone and just didn’t want to be upfront. But it feels like the last few steps have been unorganized. They mentioned a second round in a VM, didn’t return my phone call. Then didn’t mention a second round in the request for more references. It just seems like they’re unsure of the last few steps.

  90. MBA*

    Help!
    I have an informal lunch (sort of an informational interview but even less formal that that) with the VP of my department today. This is a fairly large, well known company and I’m a lowly MBA intern making very little money.

    We’re eating at a restaurant today (I was hoping we would just eat on campus but no luck.) I would normally offer to pay without thinking twice but since this person is so far above me, I feel like it would be really weird to offer to pay.

    Thoughts on how I can act gracefully in the situation?

    1. Christy*

      Do you have cash? I’d definitely bring cash, and if she offers to pay, I’d accept graciously and offer to leave the (generous) tip in cash. If she doesn’t offer, then I’d split down the middle or get two checks.

        1. Christy*

          Honestly, you’ll be totally fine. I never have cash either. In that case, I’d offer to split the bill but not protest if she insists on paying.

    2. TCO*

      I wouldn’t be surprised if your VP has an expense account/company card that she will use. If not, I think splitting the bill is totally fine in this setting.

  91. Sandy*

    The head of another section came into my office today to ask for advice.

    Basically, she’s leaving and one of her three employees has been wayyyyy over the top with goodbye partIES, gifts, etc. so now she feels obligated to give him a big gift as a thank you (not including her other two employees in the equation).

    She wanted my advice on what exactly to give the guy.

    I flat-out told her that it’s inappropriate and I couldn’t give advice. She kept pushing for ideas, so I finally said “look, a good gift is appropriate and suits the receiver. Since this isn’t appropriate AT ALL, I have nothing to suggest.”

    She walked off in a huff…

    1. Lily in NYC*

      I feel like I’m missing something. What is the big deal if she wants to give someone a gift? She’s leaving so it’s not like it matters… honestly, I think you were a bit rude to her.

      1. LBK*

        Giving someone a gift to thank them for giving you a gift is kind of weird. Giving your star performer something to thank them for everything they did for you is one thing, or giving gifts to your whole team, but a thank you gift is odd to begin with and not appropriate for work, I’d say.

      2. Sandy*

        She wants to give one team member a big gift but not the other two? After one subordinate went way over the top in gifting her?

        1. Audiophile*

          So really she’s only gifting because she feels like she has to? It sounds like she doesn’t want to give a gift at all, but because this guy always gifts, she feels obligated. In that case, I’d still recommend she give all three small gifts, otherwise, you’re correct that it will not end well.

      3. Sandy*

        Cut off before I could finish my own comment.

        How on earth can that be expected to end well?

  92. Tau*

    Okay, UK people, I’d like it if someone could weigh in on whether this is totally normal and I’m out of touch to be upset about this or what…

    I have a minor surgery coming up that means I’ll have to miss work for over a week. I figured I would be getting this as either paid sick leave or unpaid leave. But – today HR sat down with me and told me that sick leave is only for unplanned things, and since this was a planned appointment it would either be unpaid (okay, can live with that) or – the kicker – I’d have to take it as holiday. They were unable to tell me which as they “didn’t have enough information”.

    I’m just… really upset. This would knock out almost all my holiday allowance, I might not be able to visit friends for New Year, I’d barely be able to make it back to my family over Christmas (not at all if my recovery takes a single day longer than planned!), and of course I was kind of hoping to do something more fun for my holiday than lie in bed hurting a lot! And part of me is just really bitter about this planned/unplanned distinction as it seems to me this actively penalises taking preventive measures.

    So… is this normal for the UK?

    2. Not helpful*

      Accidentally replied below
      I don’t know about the UK but this is ridiculous. Sick leave in the US usually covers appointments which are planned (like dentist or annual physical). Just because you knew ahead of time something needed to be down does not mean you’re not sick. Under your HR’s explanation you’d get sick leave for hurting your knee but not for the surgery one month out to fix the problem.

        1. Diddly*

          Good point – all surgery is planned unless there is an emergency. This sounds like bull from HR.

      2. Tau*

        Yeah, it’s – what will start happening if I don’t get this procedure done will be far more disruptive and probably leave me off sick for much longer in total than if I do. If I don’t get this procedure, they’ll start getting calls that I can’t come in because I collapsed on the way to work and am now in A&E. It’s absurd that, from where I’m standing, I’m being penalised for trying to *prevent* that from happening.

        1. Diddly*

          Can’t you get a doctors letter to this effect? Sounds ridiculous, so sorry, doesn’t sound legal to me.

    4. Elkay*

      No, not normal. You should be able to get a doctor’s note which is normally enough. Check policies to see what they say. HR are being ridiculous. I had to have all day follow up appointments for 7 years after a procedure, going through 4 employers in that time, none of them ever questioned it or made me take leave.

    5. fposte*

      This sounds like they’re confusing “planned” with “elective/optional.” I think they’re not wanting to give sick leave to people getting butt implants (though really who cares?) and they’ve failed at implementation.

    6. Apollo Warbucks*

      The short answer is you’re right, your company suck big time for pulling this bullshit. Firstly check your employment contract for anything relevant to sick leave and your right of appeal against the original refusal to grant your sick leave.

      If it is a company sickpay scheme then they almost certianly have it written into the terms and conditions that payment is at your managers discretion so as dumb as they are being they could be within their rights to refuse you paid leave. You can claim SSP (statutory sick pay) which is paid for illnesses over 3 days in length but the rate of pay is really low, if your recovery lasts for 7 days or less you can self certify or get a doctors note for a longer absence.

      I would speak to your GP and ask them to confirm in writing the recovery time and what restrictions it will have on you working (like needing bed rest) then go back to HR and tell them this a bonafide medical issue that needs a short amount of time off and if using the company sickpay scheme isn’t an option you will be claiming SSP but you might like to check with the citizens advice bureau for further information or the directgov website has a lot of information about sick leave.

      But seriously push back on this and escalate the issue to more senior HR people or your manager as what you’ve described is appealing and I’ve never heard of sickpay being turned down for an operation

  93. Jillociraptor*

    What are your best tips for starting a new job?

    I’m moving to a pretty different type of workplace (actually very similar work but super fast-paced nonprofit to huge university) and I really want to totally knock it out of the park. How did you get up to speed on the organizational culture, start building really good relationships, and get a sense of what you can contribute in your new job?

    1. Swarley*

      – Bring a notebook, take copious amounts of notes. Your manager will love that you don’t want to be the new employee coming into her office every 30 minutes with the same question.
      – Remember that it takes a good amount of time (maybe 6 months) before you start to feel comfortable in your new role. So you won’t absorb everything you need to know in the first week.
      – Ask questions if you’re unsure about something.
      – Introduce yourself to your coworkers (assuming your manager doesn’t bring you around to meet people).
      – Try to keep an open mind about how things are done in your new office. You may have done something that seemed more efficient at your old job and want to offer a new way of doing things, but you might not have the perspective just yet about why something is done in a specific way.

      Good luck!

      1. Jillociraptor*

        Thank you! That last one is a really good reminder. As a process creator in my current job, I will definitely need to keep an open mind and really learn the why behind what how things go down.

    2. Nanc*

      Thumbs up to everything Swarley said–especially the bit about it taking time before you’re truly comfortable in the new role.
      To add:
      1. If there’s no tour, ask where the bathrooms, office supplies, break/lunch room, etc. are located.
      2. Ask if there are SOPs for your job. If there aren’t, create them as you learn so when you’re promoted your replacement will have that documentation!
      3. If possible, try to take a little walk outside on a break or at lunch, just to clear your head and get some alone time.
      4. For the first couple of weeks, when you get home and have had a chance to relax, write up a little recap of your day, what you learned, what you have questions about, etc. I found this helped me realize how much I had learned and accomplished, which helped get rid of some of the OH MY THIS IS ALL SO NEW anxiety.
      5. If they offer any sort of computer or other office training–take it! Even if it’s not in your job description or current duties, it will give you a chance to get used to how the new company trains, especially if it’s an industry specific training.

      Good luck and let us know how it goes.

      1. Swarley*

        I agree with all of these, but especially with #2 of your list. The person who held my job at my previous company left the most amazing SOP manual I loved it and made sure to do a rock star job of documenting all of the new processes before I left.

        2. Swarley*

          SOP = standard operating procedures

          Govt. speak (in my case anyway) for rules on how to do everything in your job.

    3. Dawn*

      Be nice to everyone! Everyone in the whole building, even if you haven’t met them formally. Smile, say good morning, be cheery and friendly, make sure you don’t have resting bitch face when you’re walking around by yourself. Being friendly and open is hands down THE BEST way to ingrate yourself into a new job because even though people won’t know what you do for months and months you’ll lay down a solid reputation for being an easygoing, likable person which goes really really far.

      1. Jillociraptor*

        Ooh, this is a great thing to think about. I’m naturally pretty nice and affable (I have one of those, “Yes, please, tell me more about this thing that no other normal person would care about!” faces), but I’ve worked in a telecommuting role for most of the last four years, so I will definitely need to think about how I’m presenting myself when I can actually, you know, see my colleagues. Thanks, Dawn!

    4. NicoleK*

      -avoid offering suggestions left and right until you know the organization, protocol, processes, and etc
      -avoid sounding like a know it all
      -don’t brag about all the things you can do and not deliver
      -read emails and documents your new colleagues forward to you
      -when you don’t understand, ask questions instead of filling in the blanks yourself
      -listen when your new colleague gives you feedback
      -blatantly ignoring work requests from your colleagues won’t endear you to them
      -if no one seems interested or impressed with your frequent suggestions, rethink what you’re doing
      -try not to insert yourself into every single conversation
      -don’t assume your new coworker wants to be your assistant
      -don’t hire a buddy to fill a position if he doesn’t meet the qualifications
      -don’t leave an important conference call for a project that you are expected to take the lead on
      -don’t ignore all the other tasks/projects and only work on your pet projects
      -don’t gleefully announce that you’ve found a replacement to fill a position when the person in that position is still on payroll

    5. Not So NewReader*

      All good stuff here.
      You don’t have to know everything BUT you should have some idea how to find out. Make it a goal to collect “resources”. The phone list is on the wall. Sue orders supplies such as pens, etc.
      Matt is in charge of X, any problems with X go to him. The sooner you know where the resources are the sooner you will be doing stuff on your own.

      The best piece of advice I have is to treat everyone the same. Be personable and be willing to help anyone who asks.

  94. T3k*

    Ok, what do you guys do if you have very limited references?

    Long story short, I’ve had 2 internships and about 4 different jobs since high school.
    -high school job closed shortly after I left for college and I lost contact with the bosses/owners.
    -Second job was just a summer job and wasn’t really supervised (basically spent almost 40 hours a week by ourselves on another floor, just sorting patient files and trashing outdated ones) but since it was in a parent’s department the supervisor could be reminded about me if needed, but wouldn’t really have much to say.
    -First internship, the place closed/changed hands and when I called a year later for references, none of the employees I worked with were there and neither was the supervisor.
    -Second internship, my supervisor left the company a few months after I finished (found out through LinkedIn that he started up his own business). I haven’t spoken to him since I finished and he seemed out of it during the time I was there (but might remember me).
    -First job out of college: laid off, said they’d give great references, but part of me feels they don’t really mean that (because they lied about the reason for laying me off, or at least, didn’t tell me the full real reason). I didn’t really talk much to coworkers and got the feeling one didn’t like me because I refused to let her push some of her work on me, and another never talked.
    -Second job: where I am currently, so obviously I don’t want to use them as a reference unless it’s a deciding factor. Sadly, this is the only job I’ve had so far that is closest to the industry I’m aiming for. Don’t get along with one coworker and the other is related to the boss.

    I’ve also been out of college for 2 years, so it feels a bit weird to ask my past professors to still be references, though they’d probably do it (just feel awkward as I had asked them to be grad school references but didn’t get in). Also, if those hiring knew any of the past bosses I’ve had, I’d be ok with them asking how I was as they loved my work.

    1. Delyssia*

      First off, it sounds like you’re not really in a position to write off anyone who has said they’d provide a great reference. So I’d recommend reconsidering using a reference or references from your most recent prior job. Since you’re concerned about what they’d say, I’d recommend first touching base to confirm that they’re still willing to serve as a reference, and then follow up a little while later by having a friend who can sound professional on the phone call them to request a reference and see what they say.

      Next, given that you say that you’d be fine with hiring managers reaching out to your old bosses if they happen to know them, you need to try to get back in touch with some of those old bosses. The one who you’ve found on LinkedIn at least enough to know what he’s up to is a good start, and see if you can find others as well. Again, reach out, ask if they’ll serve as a reference, and if you’re concerned, have a friend call and ask for a reference about you.

      Finally, think bigger. In other words, don’t just look at immediate supervisor and immediate co-workers. Are there other managers or other supervisors you’ve worked with on projects? Are there co-workers from other departments or groups that you’ve worked with in any way? What about clients–both internal and external–can any of them speak to your work? What about vendors you’ve worked with? Are there coworkers or higher ups or anyone who knew your work who have left your current company? (This can be a goldmine–the last two times I’ve changed jobs, I’ve heavily relied on references from people who have left the company, willingly or un.) You may also need to consider whether there’s anyone at your current company who would give you a good reference and you feel you can trust to not spill the beans to your boss.

      Try to think of anyone who knows your work in a professional capacity to round out your references. That said, you really need to have at least one former supervisor lined up who can serve as a reference for you, and two would be better. So don’t skip the first couple of steps in favor of the last one. Good luck!

  95. Not helpful*

    I don’t know about the UK but this is ridiculous. Sick leave in the US usually covers appointments which are planned (like dentist or annual physical). Just because you knew ahead of time something needed to be down does not mean you’re not sick. Under your HR’s explanation you’d get sick leave for hurting your knee but not for the surgery one month out to fix the problem.

  96. Stargazer*

    At my small company (30 to 40 people), department heads hand in time sheets every week for everyone, both the hourly part-timers and the salaried, exempt, full-time employees. Is this normal? Why would hourly logs need to be kept for the salaried, exempt full-timers? And if one of us misses, say, two hours one week and works 38 hours instead of 40, should we be docked two hours of paid time off? By the nature of being exempt, we would never get paid two hours of overtime if we work 42 hours, so why would we get docked if we work slightly under 40 hours? Does this just mean I have a nitpicky manager or is this how most other companies operate?

    1. Amanda2*

      I don’t have an answer for you, but my partner’s employer does this too. He is a full-time, exempt employee. But, he still fills out time sheets. I don’t understand the reason.

    2. Nanc*

      We do it so we can review patterns of workflow for the year and try to schedule better for the next year. It lets us spread out projects, black out times when we can’t approve vacations, determine if we need part time/temporary help certain times of the year, etc. For a small company it’s much cheaper to have everyone do a time sheet and analyze it via the payroll system. I would love to be able to afford a project management system that lets us plug in our project hours and analyze it that way but that’s not in the budget for now.

      There may also be some sort of HR oversight thingy around whether a company is trying to avoid paying overtime by classifying positions as exempt when they should be hourly, but that’s beyond my knowledge!

      1. Dawn*

        Oh my god thank you for answering this because I work for a small company that does the same exact thing and I’ve been wondering why the hell they bother!

    3. Diddly*

      I did this when I worked at a place that had flexible hours – so you could accrue hours to take off when you like, or you’d could accrue a deficit to work off, but you wouldn’t get docked pay – you’d get talked to if you had a ridiculous deficit.

    4. Kyrielle*

      Docking pay for exempt workers is not okay but docking PTO is legal as far as I know (in general – YMMV if you’re not in the US or your state or city has other laws). IMO it’s not *fair*, but it’s *legal*.

      As for why they track hours worked – all sorts of reasons! The company I was at before tracked hours worked on specific projects because it affected revenue realization in finance; lots of companies track it because it affects billing clients; and for other companies it can involve planning / making sure that they’re properly staffed and tracking trends. A former boss got *very* upset with people on our team for just “filing their 40” instead of what they actually worked, because hiding the 60+ hour weeks some people were working made it (MUCH) harder for him to make his case that our team was understaffed and needed another full-time person.

    5. Ethan*

      I work in a small non-profit here but it’s used to report how grant funds and re-grant funds are used (how much time on each project) , and is good evidence if someone says “I just don’t have enough support!” In the perfect world, some tasks would be reshuffled our you’d get support staff if there’s too much work to do.

    6. K*

      In depends on the company, I think. Both places I’ve worked for operated this way. I’ve heard tell other places don’t.

      But yes I agree that it’s ridiculous and annoying.

    7. InfoGeek*

      Some companies use this to document the need to hire new employees — when existing employees are already consistently working above x number of hours.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      I worked a local government job where salaried hours were tracked. So much was tied to the hours. Not only was there vacation time, sick time, personal time but also people who had health insurance had to have their hours tracked for eligibility purposes.

      What happens is this: Jane was given three weeks paid vacation. Well, did she earn it, did she put in 40 hour weeks through out the year? Some where there is an auditor that wants to know this. If it cannot be shown that Jane did indeed work those hours, accusations can be placed against the accounting department and even against Jane.

      Insurance was another big deal. Did Bob actually work 40 hours per week to meet eligibility requirements for the level of insurance offered to full time people?

      There are a lot of people who actually care about this stuff. What you are seeing is indicative of the micromanaging world we have. (no, I’m not cynical….)

  97. Amanda2*

    I was offered a new job last week (in the education field). I received an email from the HR specialist with the offer and the expected salary. She then said there were a few more steps on her end before a contract could be issued. She needed to review my transcripts (I still needed to provide one of them) to verify salary and a background screen needed to be complete. Based on this, I assume they made their offer contingent on the background screen being completed and found satisfactory and that my transcripts will verify what I already told them my degrees were in.

    So, do I still wait for these steps to be finalized before resigning at my current job? I mean, I do not have a contract in hand yet and the new employer could technically still pull the offer until that time (for whatever reason, I guess). However, I have no reason to be concerned about the background screen or transcripts- I know both are fine. I’d like to give my notice to current job asap as the academic year is starting in just a few weeks and I am leaving them at quite an inconvenient time. However, I don’t want to give them notice and then have new employer decide not to issue a contract. Thanks!

    2. T3k*

      Wait! Wait wait wait! Read too many stories on here where someone is offered (but not signed yet) only for them to retract it, and of course the person already put in their notice at their current place so they end up unemployed.

    3. Kyrielle*

      I would wait, if you can’t afford the risk of ending up without either. It’s a courtesy to give as long of a notice period as you can, but not if it leaves you in the lurch.

      This is *not* a case where you have a firm offer and are delaying telling them – the offer isn’t firm yet. Just make sure that as soon as the offer is firm, you confirm it looks like you expected, sign it, and put in your resignation ASAP to give them as much time as you can – and I think you’ll be more than fine ethically.

  98. cuppa*

    I recently signed on to do a project for my local professional association. It’s a huge project, with a lot of great skill building (project management, budgets, negotiation, etc.), but since it’s a volunteer thing, I’m having trouble figuring out how to put it in my resume. Any ideas?

    1. College Career Counselor*

      Assuming you’re thinking more about where or how to put it (and not how to describe it):
      1) Either put it as a part of your relevant experience (if it’s related to the work that you currently do)
      or
      2) Consider putting as an entry in a section called something like “Additional Professional & Service Experienc

  99. Fiver*

    I need to resign but I’m afraid. My manager is someone who often loses his temper and says things he later redacts (telling people their work is bad or their behavior is unacceptable, formally punish people, then later waving it off and telling us to forget about it). Most recently he threatened to fire me then later took it back, but not before storming into our big boss’s office about it. It was over me requesting accommodation for a recent injury, so I’d guess skirted some legal lines, but to my surprise the big boss then later contacted me and threatened to cut my hours/give me worse shifts to “help.” The subtext was for me to stop asking or else, and he was very intense and when I started to talk about medical documentation he implied they could/would turn it into a behavioral correction issue on paper.

    I have other options and I’m finally set to go, but I am terrified of how they will react. Trying to go backwards and fire me anyway, ruining my reputation and references, refuse to let me work my notice period to leave everyone in a lurch that would make me look bad, none of that would surprise me. I don’t know how to do it and then quietly do my two weeks and also maintain my positive references here from other staff.

    1. AnonPi*

      I don’t know. If you thought you could get by with it, I’d say give less notice so you aren’t stuck in such a potentially bad situation any longer than necessary. Two weeks notice is the norm, but not required. Would you be able to wrap most stuff up in less than 2 weeks, while not leaving your co-workers in a bind?

      1. Fiver*

        No, even two weeks is going to be difficult and without waiting until they have a replacement is going to make some people (reasonable ones) unhappy already because we don’t have enough people here as is. Everyone is stretched so thin.

        1. College Career Counselor*

          Sounds like it’s a case of you’re afraid to abandon colleagues for the extra work/fear it will make you look bad in their eyes. I bet those colleagues probably already know that if you give a notice period and don’t wind up working it, that it wasn’t YOUR idea to leave.

          If you’re ready to go, why would you stay? If they “fire” you after the fact, then you can either start the new opportunity earlier (as I understand things) or you could potentially collect unemployment.

    2. Amber Rose*

      Write and date a resignation, and press to have it signed. Paperwork will cover you from being “fired” after you quit.

      But mostly just do it. A bad job is like a bad relationship: it erodes your confidence and leaves you afraid, preys on your ability to stand up for yourself. You don’t have to put up with that. Hold your head up and do what’s best for you.

    3. Kyrielle*

      What they said, assuming you’re not financially strapped to the point that loss of two weeks’ pay is going to mess you up (and/or that you could start early at your next opportunity). Do it, give the full reasonable notice, and if they chase you out that is on *them*. If they claim it’s a “firing” you can always say in the future that you were fired for giving your two weeks’ notice.

      If they let you go early, either start at your next opportunity early, or enjoy a well-deserved two week break to decompress from the toxic workplace.

      1. Fiver*

        I definitely need the money. I would prefer a long notice period so I could get a replacement and do a nice smooth transition for the sake of my many nice, supportive coworkers, save some more money and all that but it’s gotten to the point where every day my manager is coming by and being antagonistic. It’s causing me anxiety such that I can’t sleep knowing I have to come in again the next morning. He has gradually gotten worse over time and now that the big boss is officially with it, I guess, he’s decided he has entirely free reign. I would not be the first person to leave this summer because of it, either. Turnover has gotten very bad, which is part of why me leaving will make a lot of otherwise good people upset. We are already short handed and overloaded.

        1. Kyrielle*

          Yeah, in that case I would give the two weeks’ notice and pray they don’t let you go earlier. Giving a shorter notice will burn a bridge, but the risk of a longer notice isn’t going to be good. I’m sorry for your nice, supportive coworkers – but I can’t imagine they don’t see the writing on the wall. A manager like that isn’t good for anyone, hence the high turnover. If you had a magic wand to help your coworkers, that would be great, but you don’t. The best you can do is be an example of getting out of the toxicity – and doing it with as much grace as humanly possible.

          Have other people who gave notice been fired/shoved out the door immediately? Or have they worked out their notice (and under what conditions)?

          1. Fiver*

            One did a long notice period to find a replacement, one gave a very short one (one week as far as I know, but I only heard about it on her last day) and people were very upset about that. It left many people who liked her before changing their tune about her time here. The other I don’t know how it went, everyone has been very tight lipped about it but again I only found out at the last minute. The expectation is we will work a long notice to transition and since some people have done that in the past (and one recently) I’m not sure how I’ll look doing the standard one. I am concerned about getting lumped together with the people who quit suddenly and left everyone scrambling. Not everyone works with my manager enough to know what’s up with him and they may feel like I should have just toughed it out. Realistically I’ve been toughing it out all year hoping I could at least make it to our lull period early next year, and part of me still thinks I need to try to do that to preserve my reputation.

        2. Observer*

          If they are good people they may be upset, but not at you.

          Give two weeks, and that’s it.

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      Just in case: make sure you have your personal stuff at home, or easy to take. Also get emails for your co-workers that you want to stay in touch with. That way, if they do decide to immediately get rid of you, you can go, and still contact people who could be a reference for you. You can also apologize to them for how it went down — so you don’t look bad.

      1. Fiver*

        I’ve had a duffel bag under my desk for a year in case I couldn’t take it anymore or they suddenly fired me and had to pack up and go. Due to my boss’s outbursts I’ve been afraid for a long time one day the blowup will be real and I’ll be canned suddenly. I’ve been telling people it’s my gym bag but it’s actually empty. It’s probably a little over reaction from me to have it there but it is a little reassuring.

        1. peanut butter kisses*

          Start taking home little bits at a time now. They sound unreasonable – are you absolutely certain you want to be packing up your things while someone watches over you or even worse, has another person pack them for you?

        2. Artemesia*

          Get everything but the minimum home and pull everything you will want off your computer on a data stick now before taking the next steps. Have one picture on your desk and pretty much nothing else personal you would want to take. If you have personal supplies like tampons and snacks and such, leave only the minimum amount. Jerks are likely to walk you to the door without even going by your desk. Make sure there is nothing personal there you wouldn’t want anyone else to handle.

    5. Artemesia*

      You can’t control their behavior so proceed professionally and let them deal with the fallout to your co-workers. What co-worker is going to feel ‘left in the lurch’ when they know your idiot management didn’t allow you to work the two weeks.

      I’d write a two line resignation letter. Hand it to your boss in person with the statement that you will work to make sure the transition two weeks goes smoothly. And be prepared to literally walk away if they explode. First step will be ‘I am willing to aid the transition for my two week notice period, but not if this will involve abuse. Do you want me to leave today or would you prefer I work with the team to assist the transition?’

      And if they are abusive leave. A two week vacation between jobs is soul enriching — although I understand the financial implications may be difficult.

      You can’t control what they will say about you, you can only say to future reference checkers, ‘When I left Asshole Inc, they were very unhappy to lose me and became enraged not allowing me to assist in the transition, so I would expect nothing much good to come from them.’

      1. Artemesia*

        PS frame this like an anthropological observation. Think about all the horrifying things you expect these people to say and do so when it happens you feel a little thrill of recognition. Helps establish the calm and distance you need to negotiate this gracefully. And of course, bonus points if you can project self satisfaction at having predicted this and thus feeling deeply justified and rewarded by getting out of there.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Your situation sucks, I am so sorry.

      Please, realize that you cannot control the actions/words of other people. Your coworkers are not much different than your boss in this regard. They are getting angry at people who just leave? Wow. OTH, you have a boss that gets angry when you give notice.

      (Pause.)

      Think about this. You will not win here- you can have angry coworkers and/or an angry boss. There are no good options. You can try to do damage control- but what will be will be. No matter what you do you will end up with angry people.

      One firing will not ruin your reputation. Heck, read the news. There are people who should be in JAIL and they still get job offers. You will do just as well, probably better than these folks.

      Recognize, too, that lack of sleep does not help one’s judgement/sharpness. I know you will not sleep better, just because I pointed it out. BUT, you can tell yourself that lack of sleep is part of the issue here and extra time and care thinking through your steps will help to offset the lack of rest.

      I would try to find a plan where I could get out with minimal amount of explosions. I think that is the best you can get.

      Develop Plan A, then build Plan B.

      Plan A has something to do with giving a notice of some type.

      Plan B is if you walk out the door immediately because the yelling is intense. You walk out that door and what are your next steps? Those next steps are your Plan B. Since you know that it looks reasonable to assume you could walk out the door, then you also know that you must have Plan B.

      My husband walked out of a job once. It was because other people who gave notice were fired on the spot. So he figured that would be his fate. He waited until just before the new job started and walked into old job and quit on the spot. Later, they asked him why he did that. He said “Because you fired everyone else who gave notice”. They replied, “Oh but we did not mean it would happen to you.” I kind of believed them, almost. He had no way of knowing that. You do what you gotta do.

  100. Young reporter*

    Curious if any other journalists or folks in general have thoughts about this. I work at a newspaper and I’ve been on vacation for a few weeks. While I was gone, it seems management has decided that all of us need to get our Twitter accounts verified (that little blue check box that says you really are who you say you are). I have no issue with this in theory, but it seems Twitter won’t verify your account if you use Gmail or a regular email program – you have to have an email associated with the company you work for.

    My Twitter account has always been under my personal email address and I’d strongly like to keep it that way. While I do use my Twitter to share work and report and consider it a professional account, it’s not exclusively a work account. It predates my employment at this company and will follow me wherever I might go next, and it’s a tool I use to network, stay in touch with people, occasionally post personal things, and get professional advice (not unlike LinkedIn). Most people who might be trying to find me on Twitter are going to know my personal email address, not my work one. And honestly, I think having it associated with a work email will change how I feel about it – it’ll make it seem less like it belongs to me as a person, and more like something that’s another chore for work.

    It seems like the part my company cares about is verification, and ultimately this isn’t something I’m going to make a Big Deal out of, but I’m curious if anyone else has run into this. Am I weird for really wanting to keep my Twitter account under a non-work email?

    1. Kyrielle*

      I don’t think so. Twitter doesn’t mind multiple accounts, do they? You could create a new one that is tied to your work email and verified, and then use your existing one to re-share anything you post through the “official” one or something of the sort….

      1. Young reporter*

        I don’t want to do multiple accounts because it’s taken me 5 years to build up the followers I have on my current account – and I do mostly use it for work anyway.

    2. Ad Astra*

      I went through the same process and had some similar reservations, but it turned out fine. I’d had my account since 2009 and used it primarily as a personal account. I wasn’t a reporter, so I didn’t even use it to reach out to sources or share my own work.

      When my company laid me off, I changed the associated email address back to my gmail and kept my blue check mark. I’m pretty sure you get to stay verified as long as you don’t change your handle — which means you shouldn’t put the name of your current publication in your handle.

      At this point, it’s really important for reporters to get verified, so I say do it. (But make sure you’re not getting DM notifications and stuff in your work email.)

      1. Young reporter*

        That’s good to know – if Twitter lets you change the associated email and keep the blue checkmark then I shouldn’t have any issues. My current publication name isn’t in my handle (I’m on my third reporting job since I created it 5+ years ago). Thanks!

    3. Silver*

      In the UK there was some debate in 2011 when Laura Kuenssberg moved from the BBC to ITV and took her Twitter followers with her. Most people agreed that for personal professional accounts eg @BBCLauraK, and not organisation specific accounts eg @BBCNews, the owner was the user and not the organisation.

  101. Jen RO*

    One more week, one more opportunity for That Guy to screw up. This week it was over take-home pay.

    Background:
    * Disclosing your salary is a violation of the employee handbook. (I know that employees can’t be forbidden from talking about pay in the US, but there is no such law here.)
    * To support the software development sector, employees who meet certain conditions are exempt from income tax, therefore their take home pay is larger. The most important criterion (until recently) was to have a major in software development.

    A few days ago, the software development degree was removed from the list of conditions, thus making all employees in my company potentially eligible for this. Which is when I found out that:
    * Guy is currently exempt from income tax (the rules were bent a bit, if you ask me, because he has the degree but he doesn’t meet all the other conditions).
    * Guy bragged to other coworkers about the fact that he makes more money than them despite doing the same work.
    * Guy is outraged at the idea that everyone else might get it as well and he “will quit if it happens” because “he worked harder than us to graduate from [software development program]”.

    The problems:
    * Sharing his pay is against the employee handbook, big time.
    * Bragging about his pay is… I don’t have words.
    * The job does not require software development experience, just some knowledge of programming and hardware. (I could do his job and I majored in economics.)
    * He is acting like an entitled teen.

    Unfortunately for him, even though he doesn’t report directly to me, I do indirectly manage him, so I made sure to contact HR, his manager (my counterpart) and the big boss. I am getting tired of his drama and I’m starting to seriously document his behavior in case it gets to the point where he needs to be put on a PIP.

    Oh, and about a month ago he had a big box of condoms delivered at work. He is special…

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Wow. And there are so many good people out there looking for jobs. I hope you get to employ one of these good people, soon!

  102. Ask a Manager* Post author

    So if I wanted to hire someone to create an AAM app, how would I even go about that? I’ve been approached by a couple of app-building companies in the past, but I’m not sure how reputable they are and I don’t want to just go with whoever approached me rather than making sure I’m getting someone truly good. Does anyone here know about doing this and have advice?

    1. cuppa*

      Both times we’ve developed an app, we’ve used a company specific to our field (i.e., the company we use develops apps for our types of business and only our type of business).
      I would try and see what you want the app to do, and then look at apps of similar models. They should have some sort of indication of who developed it. Then I would look at the ratings in the app stores or find other references.

    2. Bekx*

      What would you want the app to do? Would it just be similar to this website? Or are you going to be adding a bunch of different functions and tools? I think that would be the first question to think about. A lot of companies have created apps because it’s the “in” thing right now (not saying this is what you’re doing) and then they realized that their mobile website served the same purpose.

      Once you solidify what you want to use the app for, I’d then reach out to the companies who contacted you and see what kinds of app’s they have that they built that might be similar to what you’re looking for. Use them, see if there’s any bugs. Maybe ask a friend with a different phone operating system than yours to test it too. Nothing is more frustrating for users than having the iphone app be really great, and the android app being really crappy. A good developer should be able to make both apps strong.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I’m thinking it would be cool if it could:
        – send notifications on your phone when there’s a new post (inspired by RJ above in a different thread)
        – possibly send notifications on your phone when someone replies to your comment, not just anything in that comment thread (something that the regular site doesn’t do and I know people really want)

        And honestly, that’s all I’m really thinking. Everything else blog apps do seems to already be done by the mobile version of the site. Although I welcome other ideas!

        1. WorkingFromCafeInCA*

          Those do sound nice. Could you add that functionality to the website, and make it mobile-friendly? We could log in to the website, set our notification preferences (email or text), see our previous posts, etc?

        2. Kat*

          I wouldnt download the app if that’s all it did differently.

          I dont see a need for one. You write an advice column, apps DO things. If you were adding a chat feature where people could talk to each other, maybe.

          1. Diddly*

            A forum style area would be great – maybe on particular subjects – or you can start posts on certain things.

        3. LizB*

          Maybe it could have the option to star/favorite/save posts you particularly like? There are a few posts on here that I use frequently for reference – and others that I reread because they were hilarious! It’d be nice to have my own little list of favorites.

      2. WorkingFromCafeInCA*

        +1 to this. I’d only recommend an app if it’s going to have significant advantage over a well-executed mobile web version of the site. Apps can be a lot of work to develop and maintain (and that means costs can add up significantly over time). Would you create an app for iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and older versions of Android? That would also mean making sure that the app still works smoothly after updates to each device’s operating system.

        For finding someone, always look at their portfolio with an eye for usability. So many designers talk about attention to the best user experience, but the pieces in their portfolios have serious usability issues (often made so that the design looks cooler or more “engaging”). Keep an eye out for distracting animation, configuration widgets that sound cool but that no one will really use, label-less icons used as navigation, poor contrast text, small font, buttons that are too small to comfortably tap on a mobile device, etc. If they’re not hitting those basic UX principles, they’re not sincere about human-centered design.

        1. kozinskey*

          I’d like to be a voice against making a mobile version of the site. My experience has been that mobile sites rarely, if ever, have the same functionality as the full site, and sometimes you get this effect:

          https://xkcd.com/869/

          As an iPhone/iPad user who’s rarely on a laptop outside work, I vastly prefer a good website that just doesn’t use Flash to a mobile site.

            1. Mints*

              I actually really like the mobile site. It’s everything good about mobile sites! Readable and functional, just narrower with appropriate font size.

              I’m not sure if I would use the app. I have really limited space on my phone, and only download apps when I need an app specifically over a website. (games? yes! store I shop at once a month? no)

    3. Bend & Snap*

      I would contact a digital marketing firm. They’ll have the contacts or maybe internal resources to get this done + they can help you get it into the right stores and promote it.

      Also I would LOOOOOVE an AAM app.

      1. Kairi*

        +1 I’d love and download an app just for the ability to get notifications right to my phone and the ability to be brought back into the app to respond

    4. Kairi*

      I know I would definitely use an app if it were developed, but since some people seem reluctant, is it a possible first step to poll the readers to find out if it’s worth pursuing?

    1. AnonPi*

      Was it a training thing? We had something like this where I’m at on what to do if there was a shooter or something in the workplace.

    2. cuppa*

      We had active shooter training about two years ago, and although they tried to make it as upbeat as possible, I found it affected me much more than I expected it to. :(

      1. fposte*

        Yeah, I have real issues with the whole notion of that training. I’m a worst-case survival person, but I think it’s likely to be even more damaging than it is helpful. It reminds me of the way places (at least around here) now have the no guns sign on their doors; I understand the legal necessity of it, but I find it absolutely chilling that every place I go for work has a big picture of a gun on its door.

      1. Jennifer*

        As others pointed out, it was active shooter training, the second of three we have to do (the third one is supposed to be even worse). We are moving into the financial/higher risk building next month, so they insisted we do the training so we can practice running/fighting/hiding, except we literally DID NOT KNOW THE BUILDING at all, so…good job with that. I pointed out that it would have been more beneficial to talk about where the exits are and hiding places are than springing this on everyone.

        I lucked out that the manager did me a solid and assigned me to the office with bulletproof windows, but half the managers and an entire team were “shot dead” in a meeting room.

        FUN TIMES FOR ALL. Not to mention that my shot coworkers are all disappointed that they just sat there and let themselves be shot instead of doing something. No closet badasses here.

        I was going to post more context and then got interrupted and hit submit by mistake. Ah well.

        2. QualityControlFreak*

          I know I’m twisted, but this sounds like great fun to me. Yes, I’ve had some training. But honestly, how effective can site-specific training (active shooter scenarios) be without first familiarizing the staff with the site?

    4. Sunshine Brite*

      Oh no! Closest I’ve had to be was someone threatening a client that I work with in a large setting and a shooting down the street from where I was.

        1. Jennifer*

          Got interrupted/hit “submit” by mistake, didn’t get back here till hours later to finish the post.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      A friend had to do an active shooter. She said almost everyone was crying before it was over.

  104. Lionness*

    So the other week I mentioned my boss was leaving. And here’s the update

    I work in chocolate teapots. My boss was Director of Chocolate Teapots. We have a department that is similar, but slightly more specialized – we’ll call them Raspberry Chocolate Teapots – who has their own Director.

    Color me surprised when the company decided that Chocolate Teapots and Raspberry Chocolate Teapots should be headed by the same Director, the Director of Raspberry Chocolate Teapots. This was announced as a temporary move while we determined the next direction.

    Three days later, while I was out of the office for a few days of vacation, they announced it was now permanent. I have a few issues with this

    1. There was no urgency in announcing this permanent change. I feel rather slighted that it couldn’t wait until I was back to inform me that 3 days into a temporary plan, it had been made permanent. As a remote office, changes like this have a higher impact on me and my team and I am really irked by this.

    2. The Director of Raspberry Chocolate Teapots is best friends with one of my coworkers. I mean, best friends. They go out 4- 5 times a week. They take vacations together. Their spouses are best friends. This makes me very uncomfortable. There is already evidence that this person is getting preferential consideration in projects and decision making.

    3. The Director of Chocolate Teapots was very busy, The Director of Raspberry Chocolate Teapots was very busy. I have very real concerns about whether or not one person can do the job of two. I have a meeting scheduled to discuss this very issue with the VP…which was scheduled well before the decision to make it permanent was announced. But…I guess my feedback wasn’t going to be taken seriously to begin with?

    I hate this. I loved this job. I was the person that recommended this company to everyone I thought would be a good fit. And now I am sitting here wondering if I’ll be able to find a new job without taking a significant pay cut. I hate how this has been handled, I feel betrayed (which seems silly, I know, because it is business ad not personal but it is how I feel).

    This sucks.

  105. Lily in NYC*

    We made an offer for a senior level role and the guy turned it down for a much more visible role at a well-known start-up. People in the department were pretty bummed about it – and I’ve learned that 3 people here have approached him about getting jobs with him at the new place. I’m not going to say anything about it, but it seems kind of shady to me. Am I off-base or is it inappropriate to try to get a job with someone who was interviewing with your employer?

    1. Diddly*

      Well if I was that candidate who turned your company down, it would look like to me I clearly made the right decision as people seem to be trying to flee a sinking ship – and doing that with a candidate does seem like a stretch and a weird connection to make. Seems iffy.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        Oh, he definitely made the right decision at the time! It was during the middle of a mayoral administration change so he didn’t want to deal with the upheaval that he knew was coming. But things are so much better now, thank goodness.

    2. T3k*

      Do you mean they go up to him and go “Hey, slip in a word for me if a job opens up” or are they asking him to put them into contact with the interviewer? A friend of mine sees the first all the time where she is (it’s state pay, so not that great, and the office is riddled with petty department politics) and the heads know that and don’t care much, or can’t really do anything to rectify the situation (like bump up the pay).
      If they’re doing the second one though, that’s a little more strange and inappropriate. It’s like the time I tried to talk to shadow someone at a well known studio. A relative’s coworker’s husband worked there, but since he only started a few weeks before he felt it was too soon to try and ask his superiors for such a visit (which is understandable).

      1. Lily in NYC*

        They contacted him after he started at the new place to discuss openings – he is very, very high level there and is probably hiring his own team. All of the people involved are pretty high-level.

        1. fposte*

          To me that’s just networking, as long as you’re abiding by conflict of interest rules.

  106. Drama Central*

    I just need to vent. I lead a team that works closely with another team in a public library. Some of the team members are shared, so the other manager and I split scheduling responsibilities. I make the monthly schedule, and he makes the service desk schedule. There are two people on his team who never shut up about the schedule. They complain about it constantly. No one on my team ever has a problem with it. I work very hard to keep it consistent, but we sometimes have to change things to meet patron needs.

    Last week, the other manager was not here, and one of the complainers asked me to change something so she could take a vacation day. I told her I would, but that it would have to go through her manager for final approval. She blew up at me, saying that other people get three day weekends every weekend, and other people get to take more vacation days than she does, blah blah blah. Which makes no sense because it’s not true. We have one part-timer who occasionally gets a three-day weekend because she only works four days, but this person is full-time, and thus cannot have a three-day weekend without working the prior Sunday or taking vacation. Also, everyone gets the same number of vacation days. And it is standard practice for your manager to approve your vacation. I think she was only complaining for the sake of complaining. But then I find out she’s gone behind my back and started complaining about MY schedule, along with the other complainer (they’re two peas in a pod). They said I come and go as I please and that it’s not fair I can work whenever I want. Sigh. I’m a manager. I have to change my schedule when people call off. Sometimes I have to work splits and longer days because of call-offs and the need for desk coverage. I work extra weekends and nights. These people are saying that I never work nights. How could you even say that without knowing what my schedule is? I’m often in my office at night, but I’m there! And I have a three-year-old, and I’m five months pregnant.

    My MO was to ignore it because I hate drama. It seems to have subsided, but I cannot stand the way these people act, and since I’m not their manager, there is nothing I can do about it.

    1. Kyrielle*

      Honestly? They’re making your job hard; I don’t think it would be at all out of your realm to discuss their behavior with their manager.

      1. Drama Central*

        Oh yeah. Their manager knows all about it. It’s been a pattern for years. Both of them have been on and off PIPs and both have worked here 20+ years, but the big boss for some reason doesn’t want to let them go. I think because one is well-known in the community and she doesn’t want to cause a stir. I document and tell the other manager everything, but he feels like his hands are tied too.

    2. cuppa*

      Yeah, it’s probably worth it to bring up to their manager. I would say to her that you’ve heard a lot of complaining, you do your best to make it fair, some of their complaints really aren’t even accurate, and that it’s becoming a problem and you thought they should know.
      Then I would let it go. If they blow up at you again, handle appropriately, and otherwise ignore them. Sorry you have to deal with this.

    3. AnotherFed*

      By ‘she blew up’ at you, I’m assuming she was yelling/swearing and otherwise completely out of line. In that case, even if you didn’t correct it in the moment, you should still speak to her manager about it – that’s inappropriate behavior towards anyone, and the manager should know about it in case it’s becoming a pattern.

      If you hear future complaints or comments about schedules, I’d respond with something along the lines of “Are you unable to make your schedule shift and need coverage? No? Then the times Jane and Wakeen are scheduled for should have no impact on your work.”

      1. Drama Central*

        Yeah, I have a standard line I use that’s pretty much exactly that. When I used it, she stormed out. But today everything seems to have blown over.

    4. Diddly*

      Yeah this is very rude. Definitely speak to her manager – also if you hear this stuff – shut it down – with the facts you’ve just given us.

    5. Artemesia*

      I’d play hardball here. Sit down with their manager, discuss their behavior and how it negatively impacts the entire enterprise. Ask how she manages this on her end and see if the two of you can come to an agreement to escalate discipline if it doesn’t stop. She might have similar problems with these folks and want to get rid of them. She needs to make it clear to her team how the scheduling will proceed and that bitching and whining are behaviors on the job that won’t be tolerated. And you two need to agree that there will be a PIP and escalation if they continue. There always needs to be ways for employees to provide feedback and to discuss issues that impact them, but there are many fine fish in the sea and this kind of behavior does not have to be tolerated if the organization has the will to fire and replace problem workers.

      Best firing I ever did for the good of an organization was of someone who continuously undermined others. When Larold was gone things looked up.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I would ask them why they are the only two people who are complaining, everyone else seems to work things out. I think I would keep pointing that out every time they complained. You can say things such as, “Oh that sounds like something Sue (the other complainer) would say, are you two comparing notes about this?” In other words, drag their commiseration out into the light of day- yeah, you two bitch to each other all the time and we know it. You can also say, “Is that what you think or is that something Jane talks about?”

      In a few places I have worked, the complainer would end up with all the crappy hours she was complaining about. Then when she threatened to leave, the response was “I’ll hold the door for you.”

      Having a job is a privilege, not a guaranteed right. I have gone as far as telling people, “The job is what you see, complaining will not change it. But complaining will make your workday longer and more tedious.”

  107. Erol*

    I recently referred a family member to a position at my company. It would be a great fit for her and I’m really hoping she gets the position. She hasn’t had an update from the hiring manager though, so I’m not sure what her chances are yet. My dilemma is regarding a friend who has reached out to me about the same position. Normally, I would refer this person in a heartbeat, but I’m a bit conflicted in this instance. Although I’m sure there are other applicants, it feels like I would be actively interfering with my relative’s chances if I referred another candidate. I also worry that the hiring manager may question how strong my referrals are if I’m referring two people to the same position. What’s the proper response here? Am I being unfair to my friend?

    1. Diddly*

      That would make me uncomfortable too. I think you might have to say unfortunately I already referred someone to the role, you could always add that if they’d asked prior to your relative you’d do the same thing to the relative as it would undercut both that person’s chances and your referral. Alternatively say they’re no longer taking referrals/they’re going ahead with a couple of candidates and aren’t actively looking. I mean worse case scenario referring them both could mean both lose out.

    2. fposte*

      I would have no problem referring two people if they were both worth considering, but I’d make it clear to my referrals that that was the case. However, I think it’s also fine to have a one-referral per opening policy, and in that case I’d follow Diddly’s lead and say that you’re sorry, you’ve already referred somebody and you don’t feel it’s fair to do multiples.

    3. Artemesia*

      In your case, I would just tell your friend you had already referred someone and were not comfortable doing it twice for the same role because it would make your referrals less valuable.

  108. Drop Table, Drops Mic*

    So, about a month ago I met an HR person for a company I’d like to work for, but haven’t applied for yet. I’m doing a training class currently to work in that industry. I emailed the guy after the conference to ask if my class could take a tour. He finally got back to me and asked if I could make an appointment to “chat.”

    So I’m “chatting” with him next week but we don’t have an agenda lined up or anything. What should I expect? Should I treat this like an informal interview or pre-interview? Some people at my training program have said things like “think about what you want out of the interaction and ask for that.” What I want is 1) know what it’s like to work there and 2) how to get an interview (notoriously hard for this company).

    Any advice here? Things to ask, to not ask? Anyone been on the other side of a similar interaction? I have a general idea of what to do but I’m pretty new to “networking” as a thing I actually do.

  109. Pregnancy at work*

    One of my staff members became pregnant and while she had told she was going to work until day x, she came in one morning, a few days before day x and said I can’t do it, today is my last day, and she proceeded to have a party at her desk. The party was disruptive to the other people working there and that she left early felt disrespectful. I get it was harder to move being pregnant but another part of me is also going – she only had to work 2 more days! And I felt I had generously given her lots of leeway to come in late or leave early as needed, and so on. It is unlikely she is coming back but that is not official. Anyway, I was too shocked to do anything in that moment, and was kind of unsure what to do exactly. How would you have handled it?

    1. Amanda2*

      When you’re pregnant, sometimes you think you will be able to work longer than you actually can. Every day at the end of my pregnancy that I managed to come in to work was a personal victory for me. I cannot explain the discomfort and pain I was in. I totally understand someone not being able to make it another 2 days. I’m not sure what you would want to do about this now? It seems like it might look poorly on you to be mad she went on maternity leave 2 days earlier than projected and celebrated it at her desk. I’d put it behind you and move on.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        I think the point is not that she left early, but how poorly she handled it. You don’t just go and “tell” your boss that you are done. You discuss it in a mature manner and say, I’m sorry but I’m miserable and would like to discuss leaving today instead of making it through the week. And then you don’t have a disruptive party at your desk afterwards.

        1. Ad Astra*

          I agree, but I’m not sure what recourse her manager has since she’ll be gone for at least a few weeks. An email about how that was unprofessional would go unread, I bet. I guess she could bring it up when the employee returns.

          1. Lily in NYC*

            Yeah, I think this is one of those things to be mildly annoyed about but that’s about it.

            1. Pregnancy at work*

              Yes, I agree there is nothing to be gained now but I wanted to be better prepared next time something like this happens and this conversation has been really helpful!

        3. Pregnancy at work*

          Thank you, I think you pinpointed what what the main issue really was. If she had come to me and talked to me, I think you I would have felt differently.

        4. Observer*

          Really? There isn’t always something to discuss. If she just can’t do it, she can’t. “I would like to discuss” implies that there is some leeway here. And that’s just not necessarily the case.

    2. YWD*

      I think people don’t always know how long they will be able to work at the end of their pregnancy and 2 days can be 2 days too much. I’ve had women on my team who left for leave earlier and later than they planned and always tried to have a coverage plan in place at least a few weeks before their intended last day.

      In the moment I would have asked the party to move to another location or outside the office. If she does come back you could address that with her then.

    3. cuppa*

      Yeah, I think it’s somewhat common to leave a couple of days early unexpectedly. My current manager did that reecently, too.

    4. fposte*

      By shrugging, by internally sighing, and by moving the party to the breakroom if it was disrupting people and lasted longer than ten minutes. “It’s only two days” cuts both ways, right?

      It’s a pain to deal with long leaves, and maybe you don’t actually like this person very much to boot. But either you gave flexibility you could give, in which case it’s not a big deal, or you overcommitted, in which case you know better for next time :-). She’s not the bad guy for accepting what you gave, and for medically related leave, and two days doesn’t rise to statistical significance.

      1. fposte*

        Oh, I might also have double-checked to make sure she’s aware that could mean she has to come back two days earlier.

    5. Observer*

      If your problems is that she had “only” two more days left so “of course” she should have been able to manage, you are totally and completely off base. I was lucky – I worked until I went into labor. I have a friend who nearly collapsed at work with one pregnancy. No, her boss did not know that. And the stories go on.

      The only legitimate issue is the disruption that the party made. On that, I’m with you. I’m not sure how I would have handled it, but it really is rude to do that at work.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      From a management perspective, two days is not a long stretch especially since you knew that she would be gone a while. I’d chalk it up to she probably did as much as she could.

      Now. I am not clear here, did she come to you and tell you personally? Or did she just announce it to the whole office and you found out second hand? If so that’s not impressive, I think as a courtesy she should have told you first, then told everyone else. While I do agree there is not much to discuss, personal delivery of the message would have been thoughtful on her part.

      It’s interesting that she threw her own party. I am not sure what happened there. Did she bring in a bunch of cookies for everyone? That’s really not a party, per se. Maybe there is more to it.

      If everything else with her has been fine right along, I think I would have ignored the whole situation. If she had a long history of disrupting the work, then I would have asked her to move the treats/etc to the break room. Maybe that is unfair on my part, but some things in life only happen once. That factors into my thinking and tips it in her favor.

  110. We're all dispensable*

    Today my organization announced that there would be a small number of layoffs, and that those who are being laid off would be notified next Friday.

    My position is a result of one round of layoffs/restructuring and I’ve had additional projects/areas added to my job as a result of other lay offs/positions not being filled (or being fill part time, and the rest gets given to other full time people). I know the things I work on aren’t going anywhere, and I feel like I have too much stuff/too many big things that can’t be broken up to lay me off and give my stuff to someone else, but at the same time, I feel like so many others are in that situation, too. I just got a really stellar review, and I’ve got some seniority, but I’m nervous. And then I reassure myself with those things and feel terrible because someone else will be in that position, even if it isn’t me.

    We’ve never known about layoffs ahead of time before. How do people do this? How do people handle the waiting?

    1. Lore*

      It sucks. The last time that happened at my company, they announced a big corporate reorganization in early December but didn’t make any final staffing decisions till mid-January. Which as you can imagine made the holidays not so happy.

      Mostly, it was super stressful and scary, even though I thought I was fairly unlikely to be laid off at that particular moment (I’d just completed a super-high-profile project that involved working closely with an outside collaborator who managed to alienate everyone up to, like, the CEO level with her lunacy, so just by having survived it, brought the thing in on schedule, and not punched anyone, I got a lot of kudos!). But the thing I found the most helpful was working through what it would look like if I did get laid off–What was the severance likely to be? What would the time frame be? Where would I start looking for jobs? How up to date was my resume? Who would I start reaching out to/networking with? Just knowing that there were concrete answers to these questions and I could see a plan if it became necessary kept me going.

    2. Artemesia*

      My daughter had big projects she had helped land, figured her office was good till November. They closed her office (her city) and moved all of the projects they had landed to the head office and laid off everyone in March. You can’t predict based on logic. Assume you will be laid off and use the nervous waiting time to be polishing your resume and planning your search strategy. And it might be wise even if you make it through since it sounds like a struggling organization.

  111. YWD*

    My boss and I are in different offices so our weekly checkin meetings are online. He has a horrible habit of not paying attention and asking me for an update on a project that I’ve already covered during that meeting. It’s extremely frustrating. We do use video which helps in some ways – I can see when he’s looking at his other monitor for example and pause to ask if he needs to take care of something else- but I don’t have the best poker face so hiding my annoyance is hard. I’m thinking that I will create a slide with all the topics I have to go through to see if that helps keep him engaged.

    1. Christy*

      Can you email him a summary of your project updates? Can you make the meetings shorter? Is there a better time of day for him? I think having an agenda would be really helpful.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        I like Christy’s suggestions.

        I admit I can sometimes be “that person” who asks about something that was already covered. And I admit my attention can sometimes wander. It’s sometimes because I have a lot going on. Sometimes it’s…not.

        I think what would help me the most is an agenda and a summary of the updates.

      2. Diddly*

        Agenda sounds a good idea – list of proposed topics emailed beforehand then summary to confirm afterwards. Or you could call them minutes – if you’ve got other coworkers could pretend it would also be beneficial for them/for future operation etc.

      3. Artemesia*

        This. Each week before the check in meeting do a short sweet bullet pointing list of each task/project and its status. And then proceed through it asking for him to pose clarifying questions if necessary. This must be incredibly irritating for you so take control of the agenda.

        If you do the summary as an agenda, you can then add sections for new business or issues he wants to bring up and help keep it all focused.

    2. GOG11*

      +1

      My boss and I rarely check in in person because she doesn’t work in the same office as me, either. Whenever I have something I need to collaborate with her on or update her on (that doesn’t need or doesn’t make sense to share in real time), I write down the bullet point of that item. Once I have enough bullet points or enough time has elapsed, I type up my bullet points and send them to her. After we’ve discussed and decided everything, I amend the agenda to create a summary. It’s pretty informal, and it is less of a project because I can sort of build it over time. It might seem like a bit of a pain, but I’ve been able to create some process guides from my notes, which is useful (but I do love processes, so maybe that’s just me…).

      Aside from how it’s done, it has been effective. I think it’s easier to retain something you can follow along with.

  112. Worried*

    So, a team member (direct report) is leaving today. She is a total superstar and will be difficult to replace in terms of the way her mind works and the amount of work she cranks out. Obviously we’re going to be in a crunch for a bit until we can hire someone.

    I’m worried, because one team member, who has been here several years, is someone who feels as though everything will fall on her and will totally overwork herself and not say anything. I think she’ll just try to take on everything, even though we have a few other capable, more junior team members. She definitely worries a lot about the workload, which is understandable, but I think she thinks she’s a one-woman army. I don’t think it has anything to do with ego or wanting to be the martyr. I think she sees it as a bad reflection on herself if she can’t “do it all.” And I understand that because I used to be like that.

    This worries me a lot. I don’t want us to get into a situation where we think things are getting done and they’re not because she’s so overloaded and won’t say anything (this happened once prior to my arrival so I have reason to be concerned). The person who is leaving mentioned to me that I need to keep an eye on the other person so she doesn’t overload herself and even said that the person won’t say anything about being overloaded.

    So, what suggestions do you have for avoiding this kind of situation? I’m new to managing multiple people, so anything you can suggest would be helpful. I don’t want to be overbearing and hog their time, but I don’t want to drop out of the loop either. I plan to check in with the team as a whole several times a week. Not a meeting, just something quick to see how it’s going, what’s not getting done, etc. Anything else?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      Tell her that you see her as a mentor and leader to the more junior team members and part of that role is delegating and empowering others. You don’t expert or want her to take on the lion’s share of the work, you expect that it will be distributed among the team.

    2. AnotherFed*

      Make sure to ask this person what isn’t getting done. If you have reason to believe that some of the overload stuff she takes on can be easily passed off to more junior people, ask her to identify and give up pieces of her workload to them – this is especially useful if you frame it as helping grow the more junior people and giving her practice at mentoring/leadership. If she balks at this because of how much time it’ll take to spin up the junior people or thinks they can’t do it, consider telling her to give it up anyway and offering to mentor them yourself – you can pull overworked employee in as a special SME for important milestone meetings/decisions to review what’s done so far if she wants to stay involved at least a little.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Can you delegate the work out? Even to the point of writing lists of who will take over which tasks? Then tell her that it is not reasonable for her to take on anymore than what is on her list. Speak very seriously and use a concerned tone- tell her she will burn out or get sick if she takes on too much and she will not be able to help from a hospital bed. Point out that it is a shared burden, not just hers.

  113. Laura*

    So, I am a temp in the middle of the process of getting permanently hired. I had my 3 interviews my manager has said we are waiting on background check and then drug test and then they will talk to my agency to extend an offer. I’ve been working here about 7 months and outlasted 2 other temps. I have the impression they are fairly keen to have me.

    But! A day before my second interview I found out I’m pregnant. It has now been a month since then. This doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that would be a big problem if I was hired. There is at least one other pregnant lady working in the building and a number of people in my depth have taken medical leave of absence for reasons like Transgender related procedures to extended recovery after surgery and it has been treated as just fine and appropriate.

    Now I really want to tell my supervisor about this because I’m exhausted, distracted, and feeling crummy. But I feel like I don’t want to complicate the hire process with additional issues or complications and I feel like it would be an awkward position to put her in.

    But I can’t hide it forever. If you know, you could already see it. And I hate hiding it. I don’t know if it will be a week or a month (or 2!) Before I get the offer.

    And in the mean time I have insurance through the temp agency that is different from what the employees have so if I found a doctor I would need to switch in a few weeks.

    Can I ask my manager for a time frame update and tell him there is a medical issue I am delaying dealing with? Would it be weird? Would it raise the same flags that disclosing a pregnancy would?

    Honestly I trust my manager and supervisor, but I don’t know who they have to rely on, or what position they are in. I feel like if I told them as soon as I got an offer it would seem like lying or manipulation in terms of withholding info. Especially since my other coworker is planning a trip overseas next year but doesn’t have dates yet and if I would be gone at the same time… that would be bad.

    they have had trouble keeping people in my position too so although I don’t think they would doubt my commitment it might be trouble to cover my absence.

    I don’t know. What is your guys advice?

    1. Creag an Tuire*

      I’d go ahead and disclose — FMLA -should- protect you from retaliation from the company (like them abruptly deciding “never mind, no hire”).

      Do you know how much leave you plan to take after the baby arrives? That and a transition/extended leave plan are what the employer should be most interested in.

      Congratulations!

        1. fposte*

          And FMLA doesn’t protect you from pregnancy discrimination anyway; that’s the Pregnancy Discrimination Act.

    2. Diddly*

      I don’t think asking about the time frame would be wrong, perhaps ask about that first before saying anything. Check it’s not a crazy long time.
      After that I think it’s dependant on how far long you are whether it would be wrong not to say anything – if it’s v early I think you could justifiably say it was too early for you to officially say and your doctor wanted to be sure.
      I don’t know – you seem to be saying they’re really permissive and need you – I think it would look worse to say you’ve got a medical issue you need to speed the process up for and then announce afterwards that’s it’s pregnancy.
      If you are going to announce I’d make sure you document it somehow so you are protected. This is tough – (although congratulations!)

    3. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      I don’t know either.

      I believe that you shouldn’t disclose in a regular job interview (general rule), and I’m inclined to say that you shouldn’t disclose here, but you’ve been working with these people for 7 months, so I don’t know.

      I’ll still come down on the side of don’t disclose, but I’m coming down there gingerly. Weighing it all, not allowing the chance of discrimination based on pregnancy, that’s where I’ll fall.

    4. Artemesia*

      I didn’t show until month 4 of my first pregnancy. Unless you are having significant morning sickness, I’d keep it under my hat until the hiring is complete. I would always disclose a pregnancy as late as possible anyway in the workplace. If it did disrupt your hiring, the fact that that was illegal would not help as fighting it is so costly and difficult.

  114. voluptuousfire*

    I had a really, really great in person interview for a role on Wednesday and one of the interviewers was a talent manager and they help their external candidates polish up their resumes for potential employers. She said she was always looking for great resources to help with that and I recommended Ask a Manager and the Evil HR Lady. She was really interested and said she was looking forward to checking them out.

    1. Magpie*

      I’d be cautious about Evil HR Lady. Some of her posts reflect certain political opinions (today’s is one of those) that may or may not be well-received.

      1. fposte*

        Sure, but the same is true of some AAM opinions. I don’t think having a particular political stand invalidates workplace advice.

        1. Steve G*

          +1. I occasionally bulk-read that site and don’t see anything approaching “political opinions.”

          1. fposte*

            I think they’re more noticeable when you disagree with them. As it happens, my politics align more with Alison’s than with Evil HR Lady’s, but I like the career info on both and doubt I agree with anybody on every single thing.

            1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

              I concur and I’m of the same POV.

              I think Suzanne is great. That I disagree with some of her politics doesn’t change the value of her blog, and her advice, to me at all.

              1. Magpie*

                I think that this got away from my original point. It’s not that it is a bad blog. It’s that I’m not comfortable recommending it to a potential employer due to some of the posts.

                1. fposte*

                  But again, the same could be said for AAM–if anything, the opinions here are more controversial. You’re making me really curious about what problems you think an Evil HR Lady recommendation could cause that would never occur with an AAM recommendation.

        2. Magpie*

          I’ve never seen a politically charged post on the present blog. I have seen AAM say that she had a personal opinion and YMMV, but that’s not how things are presented on EHL. Today’s post on EHL is not workplace advice but represents a specific position, and I think one of her follow up comments is pretty terrible (women love to work part-time!). If you don’t care that a potential employer thinks that you may share or endorse her opinion than so be it. I’m just pointing out that she comes out rather strongly on one side of certain issues so I would be cautious recommending her unless I knew that opinion would be well-received.

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            I just read that comment, and she’s just saying that not being able to work part-time in an exempt position (because of the proposed new exempt salary minimum) will hurt the many women who’d like to work-time. It’s true that many parents’ ideal set-up — but especially women’s — would be to work part-time. She’s just stating a fact there, not saying that women are somehow more suited to it.

            More broadly, though, I don’t think it’s a problem for workplace advice bloggers to occasionally let their political opinions show, and I wouldn’t worry about recommending someone on that basis (unless it colored everything they wrote, but then they’d be a different sort of blogger).

            1. Magpie*

              I’m not sure how you get to “especially women’s” without gender stereotyping. If it hurts workers that prefer to work part-time, then that’s who it hurts.

              1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                Because currently part-time professional jobs are overwhelmingly women, and it’s worth pointing out that this will disproportionately impact women.

                1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

                  I agree.

                  Flexibility in the workplace, being able to stay at a professional level while working part time or flexible hours is definitely a women’s issue. It’s a women’s issue for life balance and it’s a women’s issue for advancement.

                2. Magpie*

                  I see your point as to disparate impact, but that seems itself a result of gender stereotypes. Again, if it impacts those that want to work part-time, that’s who it impacts. I think part of what I am struggling with is the substance of the argument, and I am purely trying to stick to why I find recommending the blog problematic. Clearly most people don’t have a problem with it, but I would feel very uncomfortable recommending that blog without a strong disclaimer as to the political opinions expressed, not just because I don’t agree with them, but because I also believe they lack foundation. I would be concerned a potential might agree and that would undermine confidence in the other advice provided (and my choice of recommendation). I think that’s the danger with expressing strong political opinions on what is otherwise an advice blog on politically neutral topics. Again, others disagree and that’s fine. It’s just outside my comfort level.

                4. fposte*

                  @Magpie But those are the demographics–there are approximately twice as many women working part-time as there are men, which is a huge difference. It’s not gender stereotyping to note those demographics, any more than it’s gender stereotyping to say that a tragedy befalling the whole US Senate would have a disparate impact on men. And while there’s certainly controversy around the notion of disparate impact, it’s a concept that legal cases have been founded on for some time, so it’s not like it’s Suzanne’s own.

                  I’m also kind of intrigued that that’s the part of Suzanne’s post that troubled you, because usually I would consider her more politically conservative than I am and I thought that’s what you were talking about. But disparate impact is hardly a conservative argument, so maybe you’re disagreeing with her from the other side.

              2. Magpie*

                Hey fposte. No, it’s her position in general that I have a problem with. The mention of that one response was really just an aside. I still have an issue with the position that women “love” to work part-time, not so much the disparate impact part of her point. I think a lot of people with a family would love to work part-time and the fact that this is a woman’s issue is just another sign that women’s roles are unevenly loaded toward the domestic while men are considered the ideal workers that work full time. I don’t agree with her position, period — again I was trying not to get into the substantive because I feel that’s more a matter for her blog — but I think that throwing disparate impact in there was a red herring meant to make her readers feel that this was some kind of equality argument by her. It’s the “love” part that bugs me as it reinforces the default role, when I don’t feel that the issue is that women love part-time more than men but that the gender role puts that on them. The disparate impact comes into play when they are the default to go part-time (and how that is generally treated by employers), rather than whether or not that role is exempt. On top of that, I’m not sure how relevant the argument even is, unless they are working so many hours as part-time employees that they are overtime eligible. In that case, the fact that they go part-time more often then men has already resulted in disparate impact because they’re working full-time for part-time wages.

                If you have seen a post here that is as politically opinionated as the one posted by EHL today, I haven’t seen it, and it’s not the first I’ve seen by her. I feel I have an idea of AAM’s political leanings, but whenever I’ve seen them mentioned, they’ve been qualified, and I don’t have nearly as clear a picture as I do of EHL’s, in a far smaller number of posts.

                1. fposte*

                  Okay, that makes more sense to me. I still don’t think it’s a bar to recommending Evil HR Lady any more than the pro-marijuana posts are a bar to recommending AAM, though; if anything, I think, Suzanne is more in line with corporate USA.

                2. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  I just want to note here that I am not pro-marijuana in the “everyone should use marijuana!” sense. Rather, I’m anti-marijuana-prohibition and want us to stop arresting adults for using marijuana in the privacy of their homes. (As far as being pro any substance, I am much more pro-Dr.-Pepper.)

                  (Not that I would think you were implying anything else, fposte, but wanted to take the chance to reinforce that.)

                  Anyway, that aside…

                  I’ve probably made let my politics come out on other topics too, although probably none as consistently as drug policy. Although I did have this one a long time ago:
                  https://www.askamanager.org/2008/10/on-balls-and-lack-thereof.html

                3. fposte*

                  Yeah, it was a clumsy shorthand, sorry. But I think it’s a position that would be controversial to some employers, and I would think it would be likelier to be controversial than a post against raising the exemption threshold.

                  I think I notice Suzanne’s politics more because they differ from mine more often, and maybe because she writes more often from a broad place (here’s a new policy/law) than a workplace query. But I think how we feel about work and its impact on our lives is inextricable from the political, so I don’t think anybody could really write a work blog that’s an apolitical act.

    2. voluptuousfire*

      I just recommended it. It’s up to her to look at them and see if she thinks they’re a good resource for her to use.

      As with anything else in life, you take advice and chuck the parts that aren’t applicable to you. YMMV, etc.

  115. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

    I am trying not to be irritated, but it’s been an exhausting week (ransomware on our servers as the best example) and my normal mental tricks aren’t working.

    This week was insane and on Tuesday, we had someone start at a management level position, newly created job. We (and me personally) were very very clear about how we don’t usually hire people at management level AND this was a newly created position so we were all going to have to learn and form as things went along. I did lunch with her myself, with someone else, before we even made an offer so we were all on the same page about what happens next.

    People were on vacation and I took responsibility for onboarding her myself – not training her, one of her reports is responsible for the technical stuff, but being available for everything else. In the midst of everything, I was good! I spent quite a few hours with her and made sure she knew my availability every hour of the work week. I even showed her how to send an outlook appointment because she’d never used Outlook before.

    Today I am working from home and sent her an email, telling her how to get hold of me and asking a few questions. I invited anything she wanted to write back, so writing me back five paragraphs itself wasn’t irritating but the underlying complaints were.

    Basically, she was complaining about her onboarding, lack of direction, how she didn’t have the proper software set up on her computer until the day after she started. (Brand freaking new pretty Macintosh, I might tell you.) WTF, she was just finding the water cooler her first day. Complaining it took 24 hours for IT to hook her up to Creative Cloud, really? Really? She didn’t have anything to even create yet, ffs.

    The other complaints were foundationally related to what we talked about before offer. No, we do not have everything set and yes, you are going to have to form your job, together with us, as this goes along.

    So, talk me down. I thought I tried hard and did a good job, given everything else that was on fire here. It feels inconsiderate of me personally and, I guess, out of culture. We all watch each other’s backs here. I’m used to people recognizing when I’m trying my best and being appreciative of it. That’s what we do for each other.

    (I am the boss’s boss in this set up. Irritated and slightly hurt. Regardless of any irritation, I need this to be successful so I’m not going to walk in Monday morning irritated, I don’t think.)

    1. Swarley*

      Ugh. I feel your irritation here. I’d give her the benefit of the doubt on this one and chalk it up to new hire nerves. But if it continues I’d have a sit-down with her and reiterate the job and everyone’s expectations. I’d approach it from the standpoint of “I’m getting the sense that you’re frustrated from the lack of direction, but I want to be clear again that this is how we set up the role and agreed to deal with things as they come. I want to make sure you’re still on board with that approach going forward…” And see how she responds.

      1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

        Thanks. People are back from vacation on Monday and we’ll just reboot this. She’s not set up as a direct report, even though I will continue to have input in the framing of the job.

        I’m unloading here, not at work, so she’ll get a fresh start on Monday when we all have a meeting and with people who aren’t irritated at her. This might just have been a bad first week.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        I love this–“I sense you’re frustrated from the lack of direction, but I want to be clear….” This is good stuff. Definitely do remind her of what she heard before coming in.

        She might do a bit better because of having the weekend off. I kind of feel for her, I went into a job, no desk, no computer, no phone, “Here ya go! Catch ya later!”. Aw, crap. Really??? Fortunately, I have that aspect of my personality, where I can take over a desk, computer and phone and apologize like heck later. But, yeah, it is rough.

        I think I would start Monday with a clean slate- chalk it up to you both had a bad week and start over. Explain a little bit about the company culture. That will help. Show her some resources, if she needs that. My reason for saying I would do this, is because I will have to work with this person. You don’t want a bad start to be the cause of years of tension between the two of you. Sadly, since you are established and she is new, you are the one with the advantage and kind of have to take the lead in regrouping here.

        I think it sucks to be either one of you at this point. I don’t think you have enough evidence to say that she is going to be a bunch of trouble. You may have enough evidence by the end of this upcoming week OR this week might be better. It could go any number of ways.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      Ugh, she’s going to be a troublemaker. I would just tell her that the things she is complaining about are just the way things are done and she’s going to have to adjust. We have a new lawyer who is such.a.dick. On his 2nd day of work, he requested to have his office painted (which is a low priority for our facilitates guys – it goes to the bottom of the list). Two days later, he went to the president’s office to complain that his office wasn’t painted yet! The president was like, uh, why are you bothering me with this? There is much more that he’s done in one month but I don’t want to write a novel.
      .People like this don’t deserve to be coddled – nip her attitude in the bud now or you are going to have a problem on your hands.

      1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

        I kinda really want to hear the other stories. :-) Maybe a post for next Friday? :-)

    3. AnotherFed*

      Normally, I’d give first week nerves or forgetting even something big in the onboarding info dump a pass, but the bit where she seems to have a fundamental lack of understanding of what she was going to walk into DESPITE you telling her in the interviews that she’d have to form her own job sounds really alarming.

      The lack of ability to just go with it for at least long enough to catch your breath and then start evolving things as you learn enough to do so is also a huge red flag to me, but my org doesn’t tend to hire or put up with people who need very detailed rule sets/descriptions for what to do day to day. If that many projects look that alike, we have a much bigger problem!

      1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

        Did I mention we had ransomware???? I mean seriously, I thought I did such a good job of making sure I kept attending to her and not letting her get lost and forgotten in the midst of chaos.

        This is not even true:

        “Also nothing was set up and ready for me when I started”

        It was nice cube, *clean*, empty, with a brand new Mac. Maybe 2 hours from the time she walked in until IT had her logins and passwords and email up and running. I brought her pens myself! I told her where to order supplies. 24 hours she had Creative Cloud.

        Did I mention I brought her pens myself.

        god I am in bad mood. :-) (At least writing it out is making me laugh.)

        Is it 5 oclock yet? I have beer.

        1. AnotherFed*

          LOL, tell her she can come work for the gov’t if she wants to see real fun! Some of our new hires don’t even have computers when they report to work, but it doesn’t matter because it usually takes about 2 weeks for their accounts to be set up. Ten minutes after that, they discover the only browser we’re allowed to use is an ancient version of IE and you can hear the howls of anguish begin.

          1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

            Ha, right! I bet the pens aren’t as nice as the ones I personally brought her also!

            Besides, weirdness: one of her questions in the interview (she asked lots of intelligent ones) was about support for Macs. Job she left for us, she, in a management position, was also responsible for supporting all of the Macs in her department. She had no internal tech support she had to do everything for her people and call the genius bar when it didn’t work. We’re like no, we’ve got IT support, no problem!

            Wouldn’t you think that, coming from that, the (seems fast to me) IT help she got would be a positive?? That was a fast turnaround!

            still grumpy. still not 5pm.

            1. Diddly*

              Hmm agree with earlier commenter telling you to nip it in the bud. That is very rude of her – but then again she has been left alone on her second day with nothing to do. You’d think she’d find a better way to deal with it though… Did you reply to her at all?

              1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

                Oh no, she had plenty to do. This is someone with many years of management experience who was hired to manage a group of people. There was tons to do, getting the lay of the teapot industry, getting to know her reports, etc. , there just wasn’t a framework within which to do it because nobody had ever had this particular job before.

                We hired her for her experience and initiative.

                And yes I replied, very friendly, don’t worry, people back Monday, we’ll all meet then and address your (many!!) questions and points.

                1. Diddly*

                  Hehe…
                  Hopefully she’ll be better Monday – otherwise – she sounds difficult and potentially unused to managing her own time (?)

            2. AnotherFed*

              Of course the pens aren’t as nice – the office supplies are manufactured by blind people, so none of the notebooks have straight lines or square corners, the pens don’t always have the right ink colors or even write at all, the whiteboard markers are actually permanent markers, and the post it notes only come in blecky yellow color.

              I can sort of see an argument for her behavior as badly-directed initiative, but that’s a stretch. I’m assuming you left her reading material and didn’t lock her in the supply cabinet while everyone dealt with the ransomware problems? Either my standards for onboarding have been shot to heck by working for the government or she’s sounding awfully high maintenance.

              1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

                You’re hysterical. I think the whiteboard markers being perm markers is the best.

                Yes, I did pick up a pushiness from her in the interviews and that’s something I actually liked about her, *sigh*. All of management, because we promote from within, has been together forever and I wanted to hire somebody who could stand up to the crowd if necessary.

                I just didn’t expect it to get directed at me! The first week! So, all my fault.

                5:08 pm, btw. Woo hoo.

              2. Chrissi*

                I’ve always thought “Lighthouse for the Blind” was kind of a cruel turn of phrase, but my mind works in strange ways sometimes. However, the things manufactured by blind people are seventy-million times better than having to navigate GSA’s stupid, stupid website to buy it from other sources.

                1. AnotherFed*

                  Yeah, that’s never seemed in good taste to me, either. I fortunately do not have to deal with the ordering, but the poor secretaries are trapped between a rock and a hard place – either they handle the impossible procurement process, or they deal with all the complaining about the crappy office supplies. I almost feel bad for the one who decided engineers didn’t need pencils or engineering paper… engineers can forgive a lot of things, but taking away the graph paper pretty much guarantees a 0% compliance rate on any future request.

    4. Artemesia*

      I would be steaming too but I think the better stance here is to cool your jets and let it go. Calmly re-iterate that this is an ongoing process as discussed during the interviews and that you hope things will go smoothly as the process moves forward. And forgive her in your own soul.

      And hope that it was some sort of onboarding jitters and she is not going to be the PITA that it felt like she was becoming today.

      1. Artemesia*

        If this is still an issue in a week, sit down with your boss to discuss possible poor hire. I had a person I hired who seemed perfect in many ways, who managed to alienate much of the known universe in a week and was just a PITA all around. She was good at the thing she did 80% of the time, but the leadership roles we had hired her for that we saw opening up in the future were clearly not happening. Wish we could have cut our losses, but she did resign when she was not given the leadership position a couple of years in.

        If you need someone with initiative etc etc and she doesn’t cut it, better cut her sooner rather than later.

        But wait a week or two to see if she settles down — could be her jitteriness and your sensitivity having just invested so much of your time at a difficult time.

  116. Curlicue*

    I was fired today from my job of 9 months, that I had moved my family for. I’m still in shock as no reason was given except that “they have decided to take the department in a different direction.” I was never told by my boss (an executive VP) that he was displeased by my work. I was the director of my department with 5 direct reports. This is a small, family-owned business with a lot of dysfunction. I can’t say I’m sorry to be gone but would have liked to have left on my own accord.

    I am terrified I can’t get another job after being fired. Please share stories of life after being fired. I feel like such a loser right now.

    1. Lily in NYC*

      I am so sorry about what happened! I was laid off once and it was a total shock to me, but I got another job within 3 weeks. You’ll be ok! Be kind to yourself. You are not a loser.

    2. KarenT*

      I’m sorry. That really sucks!
      I’ve never been fired, but I have hired someone who was fired in the past and she is a wonderful employee!

      1. KarenT*

        And you are definitely not a loser. I know some really, really awesome people who have been fired.

    3. danr*

      Ugh, but don’t read more into it than was there. I was technically fired from my first real job. I resigned by mutual agreement. I had no problems getting my next job and I was totally honest about the reasons why I left. I lost my next two jobs due to downsizing, but the last one was the charm and I stayed for many years.

    4. Sadsack*

      Can you find out if they’d agree to be a reference and to say your position was eliminated or something else besides “fired”?

      Best of luck to you, that really sucks.

    5. MsM*

      I’m so sorry. But you will probably look back on this (from the comfort of your new job at your new, fully functional employer) and consider it a lucky escape from whatever behind the scenes drama must have led to that decision.

      1. Curlicue*

        Thanks for the success story! This is just such a shock after 25 years of career successes.

    8. Steve G*

      I was fired 5+ years ago from a job in a similar situation. The company just changed people a lot, so it’s hard to explain, I think mine was a personality thing. Anyways, I found a job in 6 weeks (so there isn’t even a gap on my resume!), and got a pay bump. I checked the person who replaced me on Linkedin this year and they were in the same low-level-but-could-be-promotable job until the company was taken over. Yes – she never got promoted. Sad, but vindication that it wasn’t the worst thing to get let go. Incompetent manager put between me and my former manager was also let go the year I was BTW. And since that company was sold, split up, etc. I’m sure my job would have been cut last year anyway.

    10. Artemesia*

      Any chance this can be spun as a layoff after a re-organization? That would require sitting down with your boss and coming to an agreement that that is the story.

    11. Not So NewReader*

      Family member lost his job that he had for years. His tiny company got bought up by another company. He did well at the tiny company he was making 6 digits. After a period of months with everyone in the merged company making “nice-nice” he was let go. Totally blindsided/shocked, he went home and started working his network of friends and contacts. He found a new and BETTER job in about 40 days. It’s not easy to replace a 6 digit income. But he did. And you will, too.
      You moved for this company. Ask yourself, “What advantages do I have here in New City that I did not have in Old City?” Then figure out how to leverage those advantages.

      1. Curlicue*

        Thanks for the success story! One reason I moved to this new city is because it’s one of the largest markets for my industry. I didn’t love the job and the company had issues so I’m not upset to be leaving. I was trying to stick it out for 2 years so I didn’t have to repay my relo. Now that I’ve been terminated, I don’t have to pay it back. That’s a positive. :)

  117. Anony-moose*

    What do you do when you’ve lost respect for a superior?

    I have a fantastic relationship with my boss. But her boss – with whom I also work closely – is really difficult. Lately she’s taken to yelling a lot, being incredibly harsh over the smallest mistakes, and not responding to emails but then raking us over the coal when deadlines are barely met. It’s just not great.

    Morale is low and no one here really feels respected or valued.

    1) There’s the whole “your boss is a jerk and that won’t change” that I’m accepting.

    2) But I’m not *quite* ready to jump ship just yet and when I do start job hunting I want to make sure I have the time and energy to do it well.

    So how do I cope? The result has been I’ve lost a lot of respect for this woman, my morale sucks, and all I do when i talk about work is bitch and moan. I want a more constructive way of dealing!

      1. Anony-moose*

        I wish…she’s tried but the feedback hasn’t been well-received and the whole conversation ended up being problematic. We’re all a bit on edge these days!

    2. AnotherFed*

      Decide whether her opinion of you, your boss, your work, etc. matters to you. If you decide to yourself that you really don’t care what she thinks of you, then it’s a lot easier to let it roll off when she’s on a rampage. That doesn’t mean ignore her instructions (she can still get you fired, most likely), it just means you mentally subtract all the bluster, move on, and do anything actionable out of the rant.

      Focus on how much you like your direct boss and on what you can do to make things a little bit easier for her. At least for me, it’s amazing how refocusing from being irritated and angry to finding even little things you can do to improve the situation makes me feel better and less powerless.

      1. Anony-moose*

        This is great – thank you. I think focusing on a) my work and b) my boss will help me. I’m pretty sure I want to start looking elsewhere and I know that when I do my boss will be supportive. So keeping that relationship going is a priority.

        I’m an anxious person by nature so it’s VERY hard to let things roll off of me, but it’s a fantastic thing for me to focus on.

    3. Mints*

      I think focusing on other good things about the job kind of combines #1 & #2. “My grand-boss sucks, but I like my boss/ get paid well/ am getting good experience/ love my coworkers/ have a good commute/ whatever.” When you decide to job hunt, you have the negatives right where you need them. But in the meantime, a bad boss doesn’t have to overrule your professional life

    4. F.*

      You mention that this person’s behavior has changed recently. Bosses are people, too. This person may be under a lot of stress themselves, whether personal or business related, and they may not be handling it well. Do your job as well as you can and try to cut them a little slack. Kindness goes a long way.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      If you are worried about having time and energy to look for a job, my experience has been time and energy do not get better. Matter of fact, it gets worse. Just my experience, though. So my suggestion is to start looking now. Do not wait. Maybe your idea of looking now is to just passively read ads and talk to one or two people. Good, then go do that. Get something started, at any rate.

  118. D*

    I have two hour meeting with my manager and my manager’s manager in…three hours. This is not good.

      1. D*

        Your name is very appropriate for me right now, lol.

        But I work for a government agency and things I would expect from the private sector isn’t really applied here. :/ Crossing my fingers.

      2. Creag an Tuire*

        Well, unless you were caught on camera running a one-person Duck Club. -That- evidently took two hours.

  119. WorkingFromCafeInCA*

    With consulting work: How do you find pride / meaning in your work, when you don’t get feedback from your clients?

    I’ve been struggling with this recently. I spend weeks preparing a project for a client, and most of the time, once it’s handed in, that’s it. The findings are done, we may/may not have discussed the highlights on a conference call. But in general, I don’t see the impact of my work, or hear if/how it’s helping the client down the line. My manager tells me that’s normal, that the clients are just busy, and it’s part of how consulting goes.

    But I’m finding it really challenging to feel like what I’m doing is helping people, when I’m not getting feedback from them. I do get feedback from my boss on the reports, which his helpful. But it’s not the same as hearing from the organization or team that it’s made a difference.

    Is it possible to generate the feeling of a positive impact myself, without relying on the external validation?

    FWIW: I’m the only person working on a given project; at my company we all work remotely and on different projects. There is no main office for us to go to. There’s no collaboration on most projects, so I don’t get a chance to feel helpful or like I’m contributing to my colleague’s work, either. It could be that working remotely, with no chance for collaborative work, means that even after 2 years at this job, it’s just not the right fit for me. (I used to work in HigherEd, where it was easy to feel like I was making an impact every day. Working in the private sector has been an adjustment).

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

    1. College Career Counselor*

      This is one of the challenges I talk to students about in consulting work–do they need to see their recommendations received and implemented? Given the nature of your work and the situation you describe, this is tough. If you worked with a team, I would say consider them your client. Given that it’s mostly individual projects, does it help to cast yourself (in your own mind) as a freelancer? You’ve been contracted to produce this work, you meet your obligations (evidently they are accepting what you present, otherwise the client would complain), but you just happen to be paid by a 3rd party. I don’t know if that kind of mental gymnastic is helpful.

      At the very least, it sounds to me that that one of things that you value is collaborative work, preferably with a group of like-minded individuals working toward a common goal. Is there any opportunity to be more collaborative in your company and/or to assist the client with implementation of your work? That might help with seeing the tangible results aspect.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I find this with doctors. There is not a lot of follow up. For example, a doctor ordered pills for my ears. It was such a lousy product I threw them away. He never learned that from me, I never told him.

      I don’t know how people are supposed to learn if they do not see how their work pans out.

  120. Lisbonslady*

    Does anyone know, do all recruiters have the same pay structure? If a recruiter had placed staffers in a company in a long term contract role and the position is eliminated, do they benefit from signing that staffer into a new contract at a lower rate? I would think they would lose money on the lower rate but is there a signing bonus?

    Would a recruiter make money not allowing a staffer to work their notice, signing a new person up? Just trying to piece together a few strange things recruiters have done with me and a coworker recently.

  121. Mockingjay*

    Casual Business Dress Code. When casual becomes Wrong.

    One of our Government leads just walked in wearing jeans, flipflops, and a too short, faded polo which gaped over his large hairy belly. *Shudders.* This man manages the 6-figure contracts we support. At least it wasn’t the red polo with the ripped underarms today.

    The software team is wearing logo’ed t-shirts with faded cargo pants (note the frayed hems). No shirts are tucked in. Apparently only one guy owns a belt. Most of them look like they just got back from a pub crawl.

    Admin Assistant (she of the Meeting Minutes Saga) and the Procurement Specialist have been wearing clubwear all week.

    Casual Friday here is supposed to mean you can wear jeans, but they must be neat with shirts tucked in and belted or with a nice top. No t-shirts. No flipflops or open sandals; sandals should have a backstrap – that’s a safety requirement of the facility. No lingerie showing or lack of same apparent.

    Maybe I’m too old-school. But we do have a written policy. I guess I’ll have to talk to the boss. While he has many faults, he is a snappy dresser and wants the program to present a professional image.

    Is it just the heat?

    1. LBK*

      Sounds like it’s been a while since anyone reined in questionable outfit choices and as a result the standards have slid down. Some conversations should definitely be had – I’d start with the worst offenders, if they shape up then some of the others may notice and follow suit (or those offenders will spread the word that the dress code is being cracked down on).

    2. Ad Astra*

      Do they look professional the other four days of the week? If you’re sure they have nicer clothes than what they’re wearing, there’s no reason you can’t address this and make it clear that they’re violating the written policies. Tell them you expect them to be in line with the policies next week (again, if you know they have nicer clothes, a fast turnaround shouldn’t be a problem). If they still can’t get with the program, take away casual Fridays altogether.

      What you’re asking for is very reasonable.

    3. Lily in NYC*

      Do any outside people see these poorly dressed coworkers? If not, I think I would let it go. But I get why you are annoyed by it. I hate flip-flops with a passion and there’s one person who wears them every day even though it’s against our dress code. But she switches shoes to go to outside meetings so I just grit my teeth and don’t say anything (and I’m not a manager so it wouldn’t be my place anyway – I’m assuming you are in a position of authority but if you aren’t then I really wouldn’t say anything to the boss).

    4. Mockingjay*

      I think LBK got it right. They’ve gotten complacent and no one has called them on it.

      They’ve been dressing slack the rest of the week, but Fridays are becoming disgusting.

      When we do have important briefings, the word goes out to wear business dress (suits). Most of them come in looking like they stepped off the set of Mad Men, so I know they can dress better.

    5. Argh!*

      Men who don’t wear t-shirts and leave their button-up shirt unbuttoned to the 3rd button. YECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Yep, saw that today. I’m going to have nightmares tonight.

    6. Jean*

      Your terse fashion commentary gave me silent happy cackles! Highlights below.
      Please sleep well tonight! You did a good deed today: you gave mirth to the world.

      *** The contract manager sporting “a too short, faded polo which gaped over his large hairy belly…At least it wasn’t the red polo with the ripped underarms…”
      *** The “frayed hems” on the entire software team, only one of whom “apparently owns a belt…” and “Most of them look like they just got back from a pub crawl.”

      Re the two colleagues who spent the week in clubwear: did their attire inspire your last lament “No lingerie showing or lack of same apparent” ?

    7. Rebecca in Dallas*

      Seriously! I feel like our office looks so sloppy, I see way too much stuff that should not be considered “business casual.” Once on a casual Friday (where we can wear jeans), someone was wearing cropped sweatpants with a word across the rear end. Really!

      And then a few weeks ago, our CEO announced that we could have a “summer casual” dress code until Labor Day and wear jeans throughout the week. So it’s only gotten worse. I don’t even understand how people can wear jeans in the summer, it is WAY too hot for jeans!

      Also, get off my lawn.

  122. Argh!*

    Any tips for dealing with relentlessly cynical and negative people? Any time anything new comes along, or I make a proposal, the person above me and one below me rattle off one “yes-but” after another, usually wrong or ignorant. They don’t even attempt to figure out if there is a way around their objection — it’s all knee jerk, and it’s up to me to trouble shoot these problems that aren’t problems.

    It’s especially frustrating with my boss, who has criticized me on my evalutaion for not being “innovative” while either nixing or nitpicking all my efforts. Even in things that she’s edited in the past, if I make an update, she will pick on something that was good enough in the first version, as if she just can’t bring herself to give a blanket “okay” to an entire document. She just has to find something wrong with everything. And then she tells me to send her a better product. If I leave off one period in a list of items that all have periods, that’s some kind of heinous crime (and no, I don’t work in publishing and I am not a copywriter! We actually do have someone on staff who has been paid to edit stuff yet my boss does this herself…. when she isn’t too busy nitpicking my coworkers’ work. I have actually had documents wind up being months late because she can’t let them out of her hands but she’s weighed herself with so many nit picks that my project got stalled.) And for more technical things, she will throw out objections using outdated terminology and I just sit there nodding, knowing I will have to educate her without insulting her. She can’t just trust me to have the knowledge and abilities I was hired for even though I’ve proved over and over that I know what I’m doing. She also tells me how to relate to people as if I’m an intern at my first job when I’ve had decades of experience, good relationships with other people in previous jobs and this one, and she’s never had a complaint about me not being a good colleague. So… I don’t take it personally intellectually because I know it’s just her way, but it’s exhausting.

    The person I supervise is the same. He just has to tell me why something can’t work, usually for some technical reason. He thinks he is a genius, and maybe he is, but I’m possibly genius-er because when he claims something can’t be done I know for a fact it can, or I can figure out how. That’s why I’m the manager and he’s the grunt. I am determined to get things done and make things better, and he is determined to keep things from changing. I will come up with Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, Plan D on through Z if I have to. He can’t even see Plan A working.

    And yes, I’m ranting. It’s Friday and it’s been a particularly negative and cynical week and I’m really tired of it. If I have to run something past both of them within the same week or same day I just want to curl up in a ball under my desk and go to sleep.

    1. LBK*

      If they’ll play along with it, I’d stop trying to play defense so much and just stick with “I’ll take that into consideration” any time an objection is raised. Might not work if they expect specific answers on the spot about each problem raised but it’s worth a shot and will save you a lot of energy of feeling like you have to constantly explain things.

      1. Argh!*

        That would certainly be better than “I wasn’t born yesterday” (which is the first thing that comes to mind)

    2. Camellia*

      I once stopped FirstHusband in his tracks by telling him, “If you had spent as much time figuring out how to make it work as you have complaining that it won’t work, it would be done by now.” He stopped, looked at me, then went and figured it out. Took about 10 minutes. And he had complained about it for two days.

      Probably can’t do this with your boss, but maybe with your staff?

      1. Argh!*

        I can try “how do you know it won’t work?” since the objections are off the cuff usually. That would put the onus on him and I’d get a little relief. With the boss, the onus *should* be on me so I guess I could say “it’s my job to work out the details. I just want to know if you approve of the idea in general.” I really don’t think she *can* see the big picture but I can remind her of our roles. It’s rather intimidating because the objections come so rapid-fire I feel like I’m playing tennis against Federer and getting mentally winded

        1. Not So NewReader*

          You may have to say just that at some point- her objections come like rapid fire. You can ask “Is there something different I can do so you would be more comfortable with my ideas?”

          Sometimes stuff like this gets so bad, I feel like I have to just drag it out in the open. “Okay, let’s deal with this here. Let’s make it better.”

          1. AE*

            I hate to waste my time on fully fleshed-out proposals with every detail and possible objection addressed when she may not even like the idea at all. So I could ask her if she’d prefer not to okay the idea and instead only okay a formal proposal. She’s in charge of how I spend my time, so if it’s a waste it’s on her then.

  123. Waddles the Penguin*

    Okay so good news first: I got a new job and its going to be awesome and I’m super excited to start on Monday! Totally thanks to the helpful advice on here. Bad news: I have to work through an agency for the first few months and they are completely rubbish. They didn’t give me a job spec before the interview because they claimed they didn’t have one (?) But the company gave it to me at the interview and said the agency did. They also changed the location before the interview which was apparently the agencies error not the companies. It worked out in my favour to be way closer. They messed up some of my paperwork as well. They are refusing to give me the direct contact details of new manager (phone of email). The company wanted me to do a pre-interview test they gave the agency in advance but the agency didn’t bother giving to me until the morning of the interview. I got it done but it all reflects badly on the agency. I know I need to just stick it out and hopefully it will improve with time after I’ve started. But anyone know what the protocol for this stuff is? It would look bad on me to say something to the company right?

  124. PoisonIvy*

    This is sort of a vent but there is an actual question, please bear with me..,My colleague is getting the high profile projects, while I’m given mostly “problem child” or development projects. Although we are on the same level, I have been at the company longer, and for three months covered both my roles and my colleague’s before we started – his predecessor (my former colleague) had been fired, and my role subsequently changed when we reorganised the department.

    I raised this with my manager about three months ago at the time the projects were assigned, and the answer was, “Let’s go with this for now and revisit in a few months.” It’s now time to review, and my manager is making noises about redistributing the projects. I said to her that I feel I’m being under-utilised, and while I enjoy a challenge, I would like to work on some more prestigious projects that will even the balance. To be fair, I volunteered for these projects – they’re kind of the ‘unsung heroes’ – important to the company but will never bring glory. On the other side of it, my colleague has exclusively high profile campaigns. I worry that this naturally puts him in a light as the ‘leader’ of our department, despite the fact that I’ve been there nearly a year longer and have 10 years more experience.

    I’m in a heavily male dominated industry where women typically have to rise above the lad culture here. I feel even more disadvantaged because I seem to be working on all development projects. The one high profile project I managed did so well that it was then absorbed into a larger department. It’s a lovely testament to my work, but in practice I’m no longer running the project. I’m essentially in a senior marketing role working on projects that would typically be given to juniors (there’s only two of us, and we’re the same level). Meanwhile there’s several ‘senior’ projects and my colleague has them all. There doesn’t seem to be a reason for the division, other than pure chance.

    TL;DR – I’m meeting with my manager for a review next week and this will be on the agenda. How do I air my concerns without sounding like I’m just whining that my coworker is getting all the good opportunities, while I seem to be stuck behind the scenes?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      “To be fair, I volunteered for these projects – they’re kind of the ‘unsung heroes’ – important to the company but will never bring glory”

      Stop doing this! This is the trap a lot of women find themselves in – they volunteer to do the stuff that needs to get done while the men do the high-profile projects. You have to stop volunteering for them – you can’t be annoyed about them if you took them on.

      For your meeting with your manager, be direct and focus on the future, not the past. “Going forward, I’d like to take on Project G.”

      2. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

        I concur!

        I think you can put yourself in very good light here. “I like volunteering for/helping with things that need to be done but I see that my inclination to do that has boxed me out of the high profile projects. Can you help me balance my workload better so I’m also doing XYZ type projects. A healthy balance is best for me and for the business.”

        1. PoisonIvy*

          Thank you both, I’m going to note these comments for my review. In hindsight I can see how I might have boxed myself into this a bit – when I was covering the whole department I just mucked in and got everything done.

  125. The Other Dawn*

    We’re posting a position for a junior analyst and haven’t gotten much interest internally, so we’ll be posting externally next week. I’m disappointed there isn’t interest here, but it kind of makes me happy because I know of several people externally that would be great for this role.

    The problem? They all live 45 minutes to an hour away. But is it really a problem? Should I really be concerned about it, or should I just get it into my mind that I’m looking for the best fit and it’s up to the candidate to decide they’re OK with the commute?

    As a side note, I feel that the commute is worth it to work at this company; it’s fantastic! Benefits are great, the culture is great, pay is great, people work together and are enthusiastic, and the work-life balance is good.

    1. Lily in NYC*

      That seems like a normal commute to me – mine is an hour and I don’t love it, but I’ve gotten used to it.

      1. Steve G*

        I think they are in a rural area though if I recall from past threads. 45-60 min in NYC walking/subway is totally normal, but if you’re in the country that could mean concentrating much harder, sometimes in the dark, or on wet roads, or through areas frequented by wildlife, or on curvy roads, for 30+ miles. I would say it is something to consider.

        1. Observer*

          It’s something for the CANDIDATE to consider. If the interview is in the facility, the candidates will know what they are in for.

    2. LBK*

      Where are you located? 45-60 minutes would be a totally normal commute here. I’m one of the few whose commute is under half an hour.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Connecticut. Normal commute here seems to be around 20 to 40 minutes.

        I’m not sure what the commute would look like in terms of traffic, as there are several routes that can be taken. One is usually pretty congested, and the other is two lanes, which means traffic can get tough if there’s an accident blocking one lane.

        1. LBK*

          Ah, okay, that does put things more in context then.

          Is this a role with enough schedule/telecommuting flexibility that the pains of a longer commute could be assuaged? For instance, if their commute fluctuates due to traffic, is it going to be a problem if they show up anywhere between 8 and 9? Can they work from home regularly so that they don’t have to do the drive every day and risk getting burned out by it?

          If this is someone you really need to arrive promptly in the office every day, I still wouldn’t rule out anyone that far away but I’d definitely give more weight to things like a track record of reliability or maybe even a history of having to travel for work (so that compared to flying all over the country, spending 2 hours in the car every day would be nothing).

          1. The Other Dawn*

            It’s probably not a position in which they could work from home regularly, but once they get some time and skills under their belt they could do it maybe once a week. There are some licensing issues with a couple peripheral programs we use, so they could use the main program from home, but might have a difficult time putting together the full picture without those other two systems.

            I would say they could arrive by 9 without any problem since we do have other team members; it’s not a one-person department and it’s not customer-facing.

            Both of the people that are interested have excellent track records in terms of attendance and punctuality, although one pulls out ahead of the other just a bit. One was commuting about 30 minutes when she worked with me at another company. The other currently commutes about 35 minutes for her job.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Logically I know that, but I worry that it will cause them to leave within a short period of time due to having to spend a lot of time in the car. But I say that as someone who’s never had to commute more than 10 minutes. And the three months that I had to do it, it was awful. I hated having to leave so early and get home late. It felt as though I lost so much of my day.

        2. danr*

          A lot depends on what kind of traffic is normal. Having done a big commute, there is a big difference between 30-45 minutes of bumper to bumper traffic and 30 minutes of open road driving and ten minutes on each end in traffic. I’ve had commutes of 20, 30-40, 60 and 90+ minutes. The 20 minute commutes were the worst. the 60+ minute commutes were very doable.

        3. blackcat*

          This varies so much from person to person. I grew up having a 45 minute (in traffic, 25 minutes if I went in before 6am or left after 9pm) commute to school. Spending so much of my formative years first on a bus and then in a car for that long means long commutes do not bother me. My old job I had a 35-40 minute commute and it was really fine. I left the job for other reasons. Trust me, these commutes really don’t bother some people. Over an hour would bother me, but the 35-50 minute range doesn’t bother me at all. The only time I see this being an issue is during winter–they may come in a bit later/leave a bit earlier depending on timing. But that shouldn’t be a problem THAT often.

          Now I have the option to make my commute about 10 minutes if I take the bus. But when the weather’s reasonable, I always prefer to take the 35 minute walk. Commuting to/from work/school has always been my quiet “me” time each day. It seems like having less than a 20 minute commute actually bothers me, because I don’t have any transition time to between home and work. I’m more productive when I first get it than when I take the bus because I’ve had that time to myself.

          So there are people who not only don’t mind a longer commute, but actually appreciate it!

    4. AnonPi*

      Eh, I wouldn’t make the assumption that there’s a problem with that kind of commute. Very common around here for people to have that kind of of commute or even longer and don’t blink an eye, and I’m not in a major metropolis area. Mostly because a lot of folks don’t want to live in the city proper, so they live in the country/small towns. Hell my commute is 40+ mins because of the opposite situation (I live the city but job is in a nearby small town, with no direct route there). Similar situation where I grew up (most jobs were to be had in the nearest city and meant a good 40-60 minute commute for a lot of people). Depends on the person I suppose, but I don’t think its a big deal.

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t see that as an issue, but I’m not sure what the commute norms are in your area. In mine, 45 minutes to an hour is normal (and 45 minutes is actually considered short). 90 minutes to two hours is long. And, frankly, if they love the job that much and hate the commute that much, they can move! I did that once, and it cut my commute from 1:45 to 0:30.

    6. Bee*

      I commute about one hour to work, ONE way, and know people who commute the same time or even more.

      Maybe they just weren’t interested.

  126. Career changers - how do you know what to change to?*

    I’m currently a practicing attorney, and I have realized it’s not a good fit, but I’m having trouble with figuring out what to do instead – I’m finding I’m not really interested in the “law-adjacent” careers where most ex-lawyers seem to land, and have a couple of ideas about what I’d rather be doing, but I’m worried that I’m going to make the same mistake I did with law – choosing a career goal that looks good from the outside, investing in the education needed to make it happen, then getting into it and finding myself dissatisfied because it wasn’t what I thought it was.

    For those who have changed careers (and/or those who picked right the first time), how did you know you’d found the right fit? Is there any way (other than trial and error) of figuring out whether a particular field is going to work for you? Both of the careers I’m considering right now would be difficult-to-impossible to break into without further education of some kind, and while I’m not at all opposed to more schooling, I can’t financially afford to get this choice wrong.

    1. kozinskey*

      Attorney here with no useful advice but a good story: the woman who wrote my Contracts book quit law and is now running a gelato shop in the Mall of America. She gives me hope that a total career transition is possible. And, I guess, if you find yourself in MOA she might have some useful advice?

    2. MsM*

      Not personally, but I have lots of former-lawyer friends. What are you considering?

      Of course, there’s always taking people out to coffee and asking them about their jobs to figure out if the stuff that frustrates you about law would still be present, or if you’d get the kind of work and skills and environment you do enjoy.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      A few random thoughts. IANAL or a career changer, but I did do a hard left turn in my career for about 6 years and then moved back to what would have been a position on the normal progression of my previous path.

      I didn’t have to invest in more education or change companies, so it was very low-risk for me. I wasn’t too worried about fit because I knew I could go back. I never intended to go back, but after 6 years, I had to. My tips based on that experience:

      1. Understand your career path options. I jumped to an immediate j-o-b and then a fantasy. I did think about the career path after that first position, and thought growth opportunities were there. If I had thought about it MORE, I would have realized they would never give ME those opportunities. The job was very specialized. I had one other fantastic opportunity locally, which I lost by the skin of my teeth, and anything else was few and far between.

      2. Know yourself. There are career changes I didn’t make and thank God for every day. I was trained as an mechanical engineer, and while I’m not that mechanical, everything else about the job suits me. I know I need to work independently, not be too client facing, do analytical stuff. If I had been a nurse dealing with patients, my head would have exploded.

      3. After 15 years, I now think the only way to know you picked right is to do a job. If there is anything you can test out on the side or by volunteering, do!

      1. Career changers - how do you know what to change to?*

        Thanks so much, I appreciate the level of detail here.

        On #1, you wrote about you not being eligible for advancement – can you elaborate on how you figured that out? I ask because I feel like that’s one of the things that has frustrated me about law – I’m entering into my midlevel years and realizing that I’m likely to be boxed out of the “next level” positions (partnerships, VP-level in-house work) for various reasons that I could not have known about when applying to law school unless I’d had a savvy mentor to warn me (and I didn’t), and I’m concerned that if I’m not careful, I’m going to end up repeating the process all over again, only 10 years older and with more debt.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          I left an engineering position for a market analyst job in my company (I already had an MBA, too). It was a new position, so it was loosely defined, but I was taking on things several other people were uncomfortable doing and taking on things the DP was doing himself and didn’t have time to do. It sounded like a great opportunity as it was, so I wasn’t extremely worried about advancing. How would working hand in hand with the DP be a bad move for my future?

          I was two months into the job and the position was restructured and they hired someone in above me. Not because I was doing anything wrong, but this person became available from a layoff and he had 30 years experience. That immediately took away the higher level parts of my job. We also didn’t click, and this guy never clicked in the org so that he would get promoted away. Shortly after that the DP quit, after only 18 months on the job, which has probably never happened in the history of the company. We were then merged in with another division.

          Then I worried about my advancement, but I saw some paths I could go down. We were working with other divisions, so I stuck it out because we thought we could potentially bring strategy and research for two other groups under our umbrella (more work, more people needed, I could move up). Those evaporated as one group formed their own and corporate took the other. I also had a good relationship with corporate & my boss (a different boss, after I got promoted/the other guy got demoted so that we were on the same level) thought there were opps for me to expand my role there. It didn’t work out. My boss’s boss actually promised me a promotion, but after 6 months they gave me a meaningless title change instead, and I had to fight for that.

          Some factors in my dismal future:
          1. It’s difficult for people in my division to move around in our other divisions because of our experience. It happens, but it’s like 2 a year out of 1,000 people. Once I left, they did not replace me. My former boss (the demoted guy) essentially kept my job, and they hired a new guy who took his old job as the strategy manager. Based on the new guy, they wanted a young, male, asian, finance hot shot. I’m not sure this guy really met that “hot shot” part, but he had virtually no experience. People I worked with directly loved me, but my background wasn’t the right fit for our other divisions or moving up in my current role under management of the more dominant division.

          2. I never got to a high enough title to move away. I got recruited for that one role, which I lost to a man with 15 years more experience. Other companies recruited me as a “market analyst” level with lower pay. I was overpaid for jobs with that title elsewhere, but my title was lower than the work I was doing and experience level.

          3. I didn’t fit in with “strategy” people. I went to conferences all the time, and I really didn’t fit in with the type. People ignored me. I went to one conference in particular about 2.5 years into the role, and I had a counterpart from another division with me. I was so senior to this guy it wasn’t even funny, but I remember this one group of guys was recruiting hard at the event, and they kept chasing him down and asking him his thoughts on this or that topic. Nothing came of it, but it was just a glaring case where I realized I was going to have to work a lot harder to get noticed and be on equal footing than I wanted. People back on the engineering side where I’m a PM now treat me much more like I’m just another team member. It is kind of like junior high. I should have immediately recognized that I wasn’t going to be popular with the cool kids and gone to where I was popular with the math team, but I kept trying to make it happen. Pathetic!

          (Sorry, that was probably 10x the detail you wanted.)

    4. Graciosa*

      I’m a little concerned about the fact that you’re considering two different alternatives. That doesn’t sound like you have finally realized that you were born to be in X profession – which makes the investment in additional education to be in X – or Y – much riskier. We (lawyers) tend to be good at academic disciplines, but there is a huge difference between study and practice in most professions.

      Even though I am still an attorney, I didn’t get the fit right immediately either. It was a matter of constantly refining the lists of what I did and did not enjoy doing, so that I could continue to pick jobs with higher percentages of enjoyable work. Over time, I also learned new skills to make the things I did not enjoy easier.

      I would suggest that you use some of your analytical skills to really hone in on what you do and do not like. Force yourself to be very precise (as if interrogating a witness). Keep asking “Why?” or “EXACTLY what is it about [part of job] that you do / don’t like?” or “What could be changed about [part of job] that would change your opinion?” You could also consider personality testing (MBTI, for example) or a career coach / counselor for additional insight.

      I also think you’re a perfect candidate for informational interviews with practitioners in the new careers you’re considering. As a practicing attorney, you can probably come up with a long list of ways the practice of law is not what you imagined it would be. People currently in the positions which you’re considering can probably do the same. It’s worth spending time seriously investigating what it would be like in X – or Y – profession before you spend the money getting another credential. If you have a very clear idea of your preferences, you should be able to get enough information to make a good decision.

      Finally, I wouldn’t write off law-adjacent careers entirely before you have a very refined list of what you do and do not enjoy. My current job lets me use a lot of skills that are not core to a traditional legal role, but it works for me, and I’m at a point where I can largely control how I spend my time. Lawyers are (sometimes oddly) considered qualified for such a diverse range of roles that it seems quite unusual that none of them appeal.

      If you’re a bit burned out at the moment (whether generally, or on a specific aspect of your job), it may make sense to retrench a bit and find a way to deal with that first. I have some areas where I can reach a saturation point and totally lose interest in dealing with one more minute of whatever it is – but I don’t make major decisions in that mindset, and this decision is a major one.

      Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

  127. Bee*

    My contract ends soon (10 days!) and I’m excited yet depressed. I’ve slowly grown to hate the job and feel sick thinking about coming in, but I need the money. I have nothing else lined up and have not heard back from anyone :( I don’t know whether I should reapply for my position or just keep applying to other jobs.

    1. AnnaW*

      That’s hard – I would apply for your role and keep going with the other applications as it’s easier to get a job when you’re already working. Good luck!

  128. Ethan*

    I’ve worked in a support role for a small non-profit for the past 3.5 years. As you can imagine in such a role, I do about a million things – from some event management and logistics to marketing and communications when our Communications Director is too busy to some office management duties here and there to a bit of design to technical assistance. I feel like I’m having a hard time distilling What I Do and What Value I Provide into a one page resume. While I’ve seen plenty of resume help online (like on AAM!) I was wondering if anyone had any additional resources for this sort of thing, or if it’s best to hire a company to professionally do my resume.

    1. MsM*

      I’ve found the best strategy is different resumes for different jobs. Also, LinkedIn and personal websites are a great place to stash all the stuff you can’t fit, and you can put a link to that in your header along with your contact info.

  129. ACA*

    Oh, a brief vent – after I gave notice, we had a brief meeting about transition of responsibilities, etc. One of the things they wanted to made sure I turned over was the template for the graduation booklet. I’d been told that getting InDesign wasn’t a possibility so I’ve been begrudgingly using Publisher, and I mentioned to them that I had to do some manual spacing adjusting that they should keep an eye out for. And this started a discussion of “Oh, maybe we should buy InDesign for the next person; isn’t that a better program?”

    RAGE FACE

    1. The Other Dawn*

      I totally understand your rage. My guess is they didn’t want to spend the money when they had someone to take the time to make Publisher work, and now that someone is leaving and they realize what a pain in the ass it will be for them and they don’t want to deal with it. I’ve seen that happen many times.

      1. ACA*

        I think part of it may be that the previous person had been making the booklet in Word, so for them it was like, “This is so much better! Wow!” But for me it was like, “This is so terrible, ugh, I could make this look so much better if I had the proper tools.”

    3. Ms. Elizabeth*

      I feel your pain… Luckily, we got InDesign, but there was a period of time that I struggled with making Publisher work.

  130. Arjay*

    I think I had a big win this week. Final approval remains to be seen, but so far the process improvement I suggested has gotten really positive feedback, including a few “why haven’t we been doing that all along?” comments. We have a process that is time-sensitive and time-consuming that’s been performed by some high level directors for reasons of accuracy and compliance. They hate it, but it’s one of those things that has to be done. Except I took a look at it with fresh eyes, and there have been software changes that make that level of oversight unnecessary. My new process could be implemented at a much lower level, while increasing response time and compliance. (Plus it makes my own job easier too.) I’m excited to see how it all works out.

  131. AnonPi*

    So had my interview Monday for the job I don’t necessarily want (very boring, one task job), but feel like I wouldn’t have a choice to take, since I’m currently a subcontractor who’s constantly under threat of being let go – of course this has been going on for the last few years and yet I’m still here, but it does get old (that and the fact I’ve been told several times I was going to be hired and then not).

    I’d say it went well. Where I’m at now we actually do some work on their site, so they know my team leader and former supervisor well, and the type of things we do are similar to what they do. Only sticking point is I’m overqualified (really only need maybe 1-3 years experience and I have over 6 just in this specific type of work); they did bring that up but didn’t seem like a major deal so we’ll see. Not supposed to hear anything for 4 weeks or so. While I was undecided last week if I’d take it, I’ve decided that I would if offered just to get out my current job because its so toxic here. At least it would be a steady job and from what little I know of the group it would be a better work environment, and its not like I have to stay there forever.

    It does require a fed security clearance, which I do worry about. The few people I know who’ve had them complain how awful the process is, and more than one was happy to let their clearance go at the first opportunity. While I don’t *think* there’s anything to disqualify me, I don’t think it’ll be an easy process and that may be a sticking point (I don’t have any relatives I speak with besides my mentally ill mother who lives with me, don’t interact with the neighbors other than the occasional hi, moved 3 times since coming here, still working on improving credit which is good but not excellent – all of which are things that the people here have had to address when going through their clearance). I’d hate to quit my current position, then after I’ve been there a month learn I can’t get a clearance and be let go. Has anyone here gone through one, and was it as bad as it’s been made out to be?

    1. The IT Manager*

      It is as bad as it is made out to be. ;) I am asocial so it’s a struggle to find people to list. For example I don’t have friends who have visited me; that’s a 15+ year old question, though. That said I always passed a security clearance check. I have come home to a business card slipped in my door by someone doing a check on a neighbor – I didn’t actually know the guy but I could affirm that he didn’t seem to throw wild parties or have the police at his home. If you haven’t done anything to keep you from getting a clearance (committed a crime / lied on your paperwork for whatever reason); I don’t think extreme asociability will stop you.

      1. AnonPi*

        You’re not supposed to say that! lol That will probably be my problem as well, figuring out who I can put down for them to check. Oh well, may as well try not worry too much about it unless I get to that point.

    2. The Other Dawn*

      My husband has a federal clearance. The process isn’t horrible, but it’s invasive. They will speak to neighbors, friends, family, any one who can speak to your character and your activities. If there’s anything in your credit report, such as bankruptcies, judgments, etc., you will likely need to submit a letter explaining what happened and why that item is on your report. As far as neighbors go, they will just show up at your neighbor’s house unannounced, so let your neighbors know that might happen. With friends and family, you will need to supply contact information to them. They might make a visit to them, or they might only call. I don’t know if it requires a polygraph, but my husband has to have one, and go through the clearance review again, every 5 years.

      I would say you really should think about whether you want this job. I understand wanting to get out of a bad workplace, but it sounds like you would be going into a job that will bore you to tears because you’re overqualified; that might be worse than what you have now. But maybe that outweighs an uncertain future in a toxic place.

      1. AnonPi*

        And that’s how I came to my decision to accept if offered, right now it does outweigh my current position (admittedly not by much). But I’ve had few prospects for a job so I don’t know what else to do…. and things are just going so downhill that I’m at the point that if caught at the wrong moment when I’m not so tolerant of the BS being thrown at me, I’ll probably say something I’ll regret. And I can’t really afford to not work (unfortunately the company I’m contracted through has very little work and hasn’t been able to get me anything else though I’ve been requesting it for last few years, and unemployment would be less than half my current salary). So yeah I’m pretty desperate at this point.

        Thanks for the info on the clearance, if I make it that far I’ll let my neighbors know to expect a visit.

    3. AnotherFed*

      The process depends upon the required clearance level. The normal/lower level clearance doesn’t require a polygraph or urine testing (though you’ll probably be in the pool for random testing, and the position itself may mandate testing based on what your job duties are), they don’t go interview everyone you’ve ever known, and you only have to redo it every 10 years. It’s still a PITA, because you have to dig out addresses for everywhere you’ve lived, find at least someone to put down info on from that time and address, report every foreign national you’re in regular contact with (and their addresses), report everyone you’ve lived with (and give their contact info), and report every arrest, citation, and traffic ticket above the minimum threshold (usually only the really bad speeding/reckless driving tickets are above the threshold), so it is a ton of data to gather.

      That said, the first time I did it, I’d lived abroad with a bunch of roommates in college housing, but didn’t even know the names of everyone who technically shared an apartment with me (there were 6 separately locking rooms with 2 people each, but we all shared one address). I reported what I could and explained the situation on the form, and had no issues getting the clearance.

  132. infj*

    When you drive somewhere for work and are getting reimbursed for miles, do you also ask to be reimbursed for the cost of parking when you get back to the office? Aside from when I have to go to a meeting, I take the bus. So parking isnt a normal cost. Its $12 to park near my office for the day when I get back from the meeting.

    1. Sadsack*

      Yes, mileage reimbursement is for your car wear and tear and gas use. Parking, tolls, etc., are not covered by that.

    2. K*

      I would think you could at least ask. Your company should have a policy on parking reimbursement if you work downtown with no dedicated lot for your office.

      1. infj*

        lol. we don’t have policies on anything. I’m going to submit it and see what happens. I can see the argument against it on the basis that the parking cost is me parking at the office, not at the place where the meeting was. Obviously they don’t pay for parking when i just drive to the office because i feel like it.

    3. Ms. Elizabeth*

      It might… You should clarify before in case they have a set amount for parking or they only cover it for certain people or positions.

    4. Lily in NYC*

      Ooh, good question. I would say definitely yes if you had to pay to park where you were going for the meeting but I’m not sure about parking back at work. My office would probably cover it, so it can’t hurt to ask.

  133. Nervous Accountant*

    ​

    I hope it’s ok to post twice in the open thread but my coworker–a very pleasant and nice fellow–brings food that smells very…intense.

    I song want to make thi about race or culture……..I generally consider myself relaxed about food as long as there’s no mess….I avoid bringing in food from my culture as it may not be everyone’s cup of tea (not solely for that reason but it’s one)….but I seriously wish he wouldn’t eat at his desk.

    I hope I’m not wrong in bringing this up…. I’d feel really uncomfortable being direct.

    1. fposte*

      In general, if you’re eating near other people and it’s not in a lunchroom, it’s polite to keep the smells to a minimum, especially if you’re employing ingredients known to be unpopular. So it sounds like he’s probably pushing the boundaries.

      But I would talk to him if I could keep it specific and if I could suggest an alternative. “Dave, I’m chained to my desk all day and lamb just does a number on me–on lamb days do you think you could eat the sandwich in the lunchroom?” is okay. “Dave, your food smells sometimes” is not. “Dave, we have no lunchroom but I insist you not eat at your desk most of the time” is not.

      The other thing I’d keep in mind here is the work culture and relationship, and I mention that especially because I know relationships have loomed large for you at this workplace. How much of a problem is this, how much effort will it take him to adapt to a request, and how much would an effect on your relationship with him matter to your work life?

  134. Ask a Manager* Post author

    Is anyone having issues with the site loading in Safari? In the last few days, I’ve noticed the pages on the site are taking forever to fully load (especially in the comment section, where it’ll load the first half of the comments and then get hung up) and sometimes it takes a while to have a link work when you click on it. In Chrome, everything works fine.

    1. fposte*

      Yup, and that was where I hit the redirect ad, so I wondered if it was related to some kind of funky ad script. Maybe not?

    2. Mimmy*

      Hmmm…I’m on Safari (iMac desktop), and while it might load a little slowly, especially longer threads, it seems okay for me. If I notice anything odd, I’ll let you know.

    3. Ann O'Nemity*

      Yep, I’ve noticed the slow page loading in Safari and Chrome. Maybe it’s the ads or plugins? At the bottom it will say waiting for doubleclick or some other things to load and frequently hangs.

    4. danr*

      I’ve had a problem with the site loading forever in Chrome, on win 7 for the past couple of days. I think it’s bad ads again, since the site loaded quickly after I re-enabled the ad- blocker. I try to keep it off so you get the revenue.

    5. amanda2*

      The ads have been giving me a hard time when using the site from Chrome on my computer. Maybe its a similar issue.

    7. AnotherFed*

      I haven’t noticed any issues on my Mac/Safari, but I have noticed that the ‘reply’ button doesn’t work in IE anymore. That might just be the IE version on this computer, though – we’re still at 10.0 here. :(

    8. AnnaW*

      That happened with one question the other day – I never got to see more than the first few comments. All is fine now.

  135. Choosing a career*

    How do you transition out of adjunct teaching? Has anyone done this? I’ve applied to plenty of jobs that interest me but haven’t heard back, so I’m trying to reassess my goals. It’s strange to be very well educated, but not particularly skilled in Microsoft software.

    I like being in charge of things and am great at big picture planning & things of that sort, but I’ve never held a Project Manager title. My computer skills are limited- I mostly used iWork bc the cost was all out-of-pocket. I’ve applied to admin & receptionist roles, but I have a feeling they’re looking at my Masters and are like “huh?” (even though I’ve addressed it as per Alison’s advice on the topic). I’ve tried looking at positions in my subject area & am having a similar conundrum of not knowing what level I should be applying at?

    Are there jobs where the long-view is especially valued? Or career guidance resources that yield realistic results? I’ve taken career quizzes before and they tell me I should be involved in subject areas I am the weakest in. Or to teach… which I am good at and mostly like, but really need something less draining, more secure, and full time. I like theorizing, learning, and helping others. I also like creative endeavors.

    1. Intrepid Intern*

      What about something like an education coordinator role at a university? Or a student exchange program? They might be interested in adjunct teaching experience to help backstop a program or evaluate overseas lesson plans for comparability with US courses, etc.

    2. Regina*

      What field are you in?

      I just got out of adjuncting 1 year ago. I miss teaching, but don’t miss anything else about adjuncting AT ALL. So much stress all the time. Trust me, you’ll be glad you decided to get out when you did.

      Lynda.com is a wonderful resource for learning new software and other office skills.

      I agree that since you already understand college work culture, what about another type of job at a college, something other than teaching? They might be more understanding of why you want to leave adjuncting to do admin work.

      1. Choosing a career*

        @Regina: I’m multi-disciplinary, but the short answer is Visual Arts. They had me lecturing, which was their need, and I learned to do well, but I also make work, though my output was dramatically cut back as I got more into teaching. I am also versed in theory as it pertains to art & popular culture & women’s studies.

        Thank you for the reassurance that it was the right call. Yes, the actual teaching was mostly good, although not without its occasional issues. But not making enough to live on and having grading/lesson planning/etc. take over my personal life, aside from other issues… I just couldn’t anymore.

        I’ve wondered if I should stay in higher ed, so it’s nice to hear that it might be worth a second look. Goodness knows I value learning, and it would be nice to be with people who understand that. I’m not married to admin- I thought of it mostly because it seems secure and I wouldn’t have to run around as much, which was taking its toll on me physically.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          The current admin assistant to my alma mater department chair started at the university as a history lecturer (MA – History).

        2. fposte*

          Have you applied to any academic professional jobs, or has your looking all been outside of academia? Most schools, especially bigger ones, have a ton of academic professionals–not faculty but often degreed and field-knowledgeable–people providing support for units, programs, grants, etc. I would talk to the departments you work in and know and look at postings in your region.

          1. Choosing a career*

            The majority have been outside academia. I’d say about 5 or so have been within academia. Of those, about 2 were admin, the others were staff- not subject matter experts, but other professional positions. I was wondering if I was over-shooting with those, but maybe that’s actually a better route, and the sample was just too small. Thank you for helping me sort this out in my mind! :)

    3. Argh!*

      How about these ideas?
      Day care (teaching but no homework or grading)
      Dog training (also teaching without any homework or grading)
      Social director at a nursing home
      Social director of a cruise ship
      Retail at a craft store
      Retail at a Home Depot type store
      Interior decorating
      Landscaping (exterior decorating!)
      Parks Department tour guide at historical landmarks/buildings

      1. Choosing a career*

        Thank you for putting so many ideas out there. Unfortunately, many of these wouldn’t work- but you wouldn’t know that unless I’d put in a little more about myself in the original post.

        I chose Higher Ed adjuncting over K-12 because I’m not a huge fan of kids. Teaching adults & teaching kids, for me, were two very different experiences. I found that I prefer the self-control most adults can muster. I’m not an animal person, and I am an introvert who is only good at public speaking because I know my material. I’ve worked in retail and could probably return, but it’s such a low financial return for what I consider a lot of aggravation that it’s at the bottom of the list- as an emergency measure only. I’m not even sure I could handle it physically anymore.

        I’m really aiming toward a professional position with more time behind a desk- and if I can use my MA, so much the better. Again, these are all things you would only know if you knew me personally or if I’d thought to include them originally, but thank you very much nonetheless!

  136. Intrepid Intern*

    What transferrable skills go into scheduling and/or monitoring a budget? What do those tasks include?

    I’m (clearly) entry-level but with plenty of internship experience. I just don’t have experience in monitoring a budget or scheduling (usually for a single Important Person, not an entire department). I keep seeing jobs that ask for these skills, though, and it frequently comes up in interviews. So far I’ve made the argument that I have a keen eye for detail, backed up with concrete examples, and I’ve been trusted to handle a lot of cash, so I could probably monitor a budget, and… crickets. Clearly no one will hand me a bookkeeping job, but I’d like to be able to apply with confidence to program/project management positions with some admin responsibilities.

    1. fposte*

      Excel, Excel, Excel. Have you handled your own budget on Excel? If not, that’s a good thing to get done anyway. Then build on it–create projections for loan payback, etc.

      Other people may have more formal suggestions, but to me, “My monthly budget is broken down into seven categories, including 10% going toward loan repayment, and I have three different projections through 2018 based on three different repayment schedules” would say “I know what budgets do.”

      1. Intrepid Intern*

        Thank you! I had such a budget through grad school, minus loan repayment, but let it go by the wayside as I graduated and my spending priorities shifted to “next to nothing + rent.” Is there an Excel formula you’d recommend for loan repayment projections?

        1. fposte*

          I think you just make it from scratch depending on your loan, its structure, and its interest rate.

    2. ACA*

      If you worked during college, you had to schedule your worktime so it didn’t conflict with your classes (or, alternately, you had to schedule your classes so they wouldn’t conflict with your work!). Have you ever booked a room for a study group? Tried to find a time for everyone to meet to do a group project? That will easily transfer to the workplace.

      1. Intrepid Intern*

        Thank you! I did work and schedule classes in college– often 18 credits and 2 jobs, so it got more than a bit complicated. So far, I’d been saying that I scheduled interviews as part of an internship; which do you think is a stronger example?

        1. ACA*

          Definitely lead off with the interviews scheduling, but also say that you’re personally familiar with juggling busy schedules because of [examples], so you know how important it is to leave some room for breathing/travel time/lunch even in the busiest of calendars. If nothing else, it’ll show that you’re good with time-management.

          1. Intrepid Intern*

            Thank you! That sounds like an excellent way to approach it– I’ve been struggling with the scheduling question mostly because “well I scheduled interviews for one internship” seems so insufficient, so it’s nice to have something to back it up with.

    3. AnonPi*

      Ok just to clarify, are you applying for admin jobs, or project management jobs? They’re really different things (though admittedly some PM jobs at the entry/assistant level will tack on some admin tasks). PM jobs can be hard to get into without prior experience and/or training, even at the entry level (which often aren’t truly ‘entry level’ – at least most of the ones I’ve looked at).

      1. Intrepid Intern*

        I’m applying to project assistant/associate jobs and research assistant/assoc jobs, and I’m finding that often around 25%-50% of the role is admin work. It’s too much a pattern to just not apply for any of them, so I want to be ready to address the parts of admin work that I’m weak on.

        1. Intrepid Intern*

          Whoops, forgot the most important part: yeah, I misspoke by saying “project management” jobs. My kingdom for an edit button(s)!

        2. AnonPi*

          If you haven’t had any training in project management, then you may want to look into getting a certification. That can help a lot, as I’ve seen several “entry level” jobs want certification (too often they want a PMP which is not for entry level, but I suspect it’s the certification they’re familiar with so that’s what gets requested). I’m (slooooowwwly) working on my PMP, which is for someone who’s had experience, but there’s also the CAPM which is for entry level. I actually started out studying for the CAPM since I have no “formal/structured” PM experience, but was advised to do the PMP since I have managed small projects. Having the certification may help get your foot in the door.

        3. Argh!*

          Find a volunteer organization that needs someone to do those things. I agree about certification, but having completed a project and been accountable to others will build your creds. Even if all you do is help them file their taxes, that shows some skill and attention to detail.

  137. Kairi*

    I work at the front desk, and it drives me nuts when I put someone on hold and they hang up while I’m trying to get an extension/information for them! Like, what do you think I’m doing once I put you on hold?! Blah, sorry to vent, it just happens at least once a day so it’s been driving me crazy.

    1. K*

      Ditto! Once that happened to me and the person I was trying to connect the caller to accused me of not putting them on hold correctly.

      1. Kairi*

        Yeah, I’ve had that before too! I do this multiple times a day, I know how to use the hold button!

    2. Lily in NYC*

      It’s annoying, but I can see why it would happen – like if that person’s phone rang while they were on hold with you and they had to answer it.

      1. Kairi*

        I can understand that, but people normally call back if that’s the case (which is fine by me). It’s the ones who just never call back that baffle me.

    3. Anonyby*

      I totally feel you! Happens to me too, though less often. Sometimes they do call back and accuse me of hanging up on them. WTH. I put you on hold so I could transfer you, person! (And I definitely didn’t accidentally hang up on them–they stayed in hold for a solid 10 seconds or so, occasionally longer if I had to run around the office trying to find someone to take the call.

    4. Former Diet Coke Addict*

      Yes! Why? The variant where people call, I put them on hold, then they hang up and call back also occurs–then they get put out because I put them on hold AGAIN! Why? I put you on hold for a reason–to put you through to the person! Presumably they are not standing right next to me, so….why not wait the 15 seconds until I connect you? Why? Why?

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Have someone call your desk, what do they hear on hold?
      It’s good to check these things once in a while.
      The other thing is before you put them on hold, tell them not to hang up and you’ll be right back.

      I have noticed that a few of the larger companies I call will say, “I am going to put you on hold now, is that okay?” They are probably doing that because of what you are saying here.

  138. Another English Major*

    Exercising during the workday

    The post about the man working out shirtless got me thinking, what is considered too far from the norm when exercising at work. I started hula-hooping again and was thinking about keeping the hoop in my car so I can go outside and practice during my breaks. I used to go for walks on my breaks but it’s too hot now for that because I live in Florida.

    I really miss the physical activity during the day but I also don’t want to be known as that weird hula-hooping lady. I worry that co-workers or higher-ups would think it childish. What do you all think?

    For background there is not really anything I can do by my desk for exercise since we are in an open plan and it’d be too distracting for my co-workers.

    1. fposte*

      Much as I’d love to read an AAM letter from somebody freaked out by her colleague’s hula-hooping, I think you’ve got a choice here: let your freak/hula-hoop flag fly and own being the weird hula-hoop lady, or find another way to move.

      For me the choice would depend a lot on the company culture and where I fit into it. If you’re new and in a keep-your-head-down place, ill-advised. If your co-worker commutes via skateboard and people bought you cupcakes when you finally got that tattoo done, no problem. If you’re somewhere in between, it’s a judgment call. (Part of the judgment is whether you’ll be too self-conscious to use it, too.)

      1. Another English Major*

        Thanks for the input! I was wondering if it’d be too far from the norm but I’m leaning towards doing it. I’ve been here a few years and I’m already known as the smoothie lady (I blend and drink smoothies for lunch almost daily).

        1. Lily in NYC*

          My cubicle neighbor blends smoothies in her cube twice a day and the noise is maddening (I’m not accusing you of doing the same, I’m just venting!). And she never cleans the glasses and has about 12 half-filled glasses of moldy smoothies in there and it smells like penicillin when I walk by. But she’s nice and I like her so I’ll deal.

          2. Another English Major*

            Gross. That would be irritating. I blend mine in the breakroom I promise :)

  139. Regina*

    I’m writing a thank-you card to my boss for a going-away gift I received from him. It’s my last day today. It was a great place to work so it’s a sad day for me!

    Anyway. In the card, should I say “I will miss working with you” or “I will miss working for you” to my boss? I work at a school, so it’s not like he’s the “owner” or anything like that, where “for you” would be obvious.

    Not a life or death decision, just something I’ve been pondering for the past few minutes so I thought I’d bring it here.

    2. Sara*

      I just finished transitioning out of my old job, and when I sent my final thank you emails to my boss and direct supervisor, I said “I really enjoyed being part of your team.”

  140. Courtney*

    I had an interview and asked this question that was on this website as a suggested question to find out if your prospective manager sucks or not. “Having seen the impact it can have on the rest of the team when someone isn’t meeting expectations, can you tell me a bit about how you approach it when someone is falling short of expectations” was the question. They seemed very uncomfortable with this question. It is a small company but never thought they’d be so uncomfortable with this question.

    They sent me a rejection because I’m “not a good fit” for their company and I keep thinking this is part of the reason why they rejected me. It sucks because it was a position I was really interested in and am eager to leave my current job.

    1. Persephone Mulberry*

      Sounds like a bullet dodged, frankly – if they were uncomfortable with it, it might be because they have That One Guy who they know is a slacker but nobody wants to deal with. I’m curious what kind of answer they gave

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Yeah. Keep in mind that you’re presumably asking that question in order to evaluate their response because it’s something you care about. They gave you a response that’s pretty telling.

        1. Courtney*

          It is. Sounds like they’d be people that don’t want to do the basic fundamentals of management. Probably best they rejected me because it wouldn’t have been a good fit. Not interested in another job where management won’t address significant issues.

      2. Courtney*

        The interviewer responded “Oh we would have to talk to them” and he and the other interviewer looked horrified. Then he moved back to review some general background questions we’d already discussed in detail. It was almost like they felt insulted to be asked that question. The one interviewer would’ve been a direct manager for the position so it does seem like a bullet dodged.

    2. Anonsie*

      I think their discomfort with that question is a little telling, though I wouldn’t speculate on what it may mean exactly I’m sure it’s not a good sign of how they deal with issues like that.

    3. some1*

      Or they are bad at comprehension and think you were asking because *you* would be the one slacking off.

      1. F.*

        That was the first impression I had. Then I thought maybe the candidate might be one of those types of people who are always tattling to management about others and expecting something to be done about it. Either way, that question would be a disqualifier if I was interviewing you.

    4. Sara*

      At one of the early interviews I had in my most recent job search, I asked why the position I was interviewing for was only open for a year. (In my field, it’s pretty common for short-term postings, including those up to a full year, to indicate that it’s maternity leave coverage or that the person who holds the position is taking a temporary leave of absence and will return on X date.) Everyone in the room suddenly got REALLY uncomfortable, and the hiring manager said, very curtly, “I can’t tell you that. Even if I could tell you that, I wouldn’t tell you that. It’s for one year. That was clear in the job posting.” I backtracked, stated that from the job posting I was aware it was only open for a year and that I understood and accepted that they were unable to give the reason. He says again, “Good. Because the position is only for one year. I’m not going to tell you why it’s only for one year, all you need to know is that it’s only for one year. We clearly posted that so that people would be aware of it.”

      I never heard back from them and can only assume they went with someone who didn’t ask such (apparently) ridiculous questions.

  141. Ms. Elizabeth*

    I think management is on the verge of letting go my co-worker. They took away a majority of her duties and gave it to a contractor offsite. There have been a lot of meetings that I didn’t know about. It’s actually making me wonder if I’m also on the chopping block… Am I just paranoid or what?

    1. AnonPi*

      Well you may be jumping the gun a bit. They may be letting her go that has nothing to do with your work. She may be getting promoted/transferring, or even leaving and it hasn’t been announced yet. If there’s been no other signs of trouble (either with the company as far as stability, or your performance) then I’d try not to worry too much yet.

  142. K*

    On the Bad Intern thread there were a lot of stories of interns who didn’t know how to do basic computer functions.

    Let me tell you, I work with a lot of highly educated and experienced folks in the sciences who don’t know how to operate computers, either. It’s amazing how someone with a PhD can’t figure out how to start a PowerPoint presentation…

      1. Kairi*

        Not paying attention (I accidentally posted this below whoops!)

        My friend on the IT team told me he spent 3 hours on the phone with a virtual employee walking her through the steps of setting up her new surface pro, and how to use Outlook…

    2. Sascha*

      The training manager in my department often tells people he’s “not good with computers.” We’re in IT. He’s an IT trainer. *facepalm* (I think he does it just so he can get out of doing stuff.)

  143. AMB*

    Hi – long time reader, first time commenter. Hoping to draw on this community’s excellent advice!
    I am doing a video interview Monday when I am fortuitously already working from home. However, I am working from home as I will be doing a 24 blood pressure monitoring and wearing a cuff all day, that goes off at pre-determined interviews. Will work on an outfit to obscure it but it does make noise and may go off during the interview. Should I mention it upfront or say there’s construction going on outside? It is to monitor a long term condition that is very stable but I don’t want them to think me medically fragile. Any thoughts appreciated!

    1. Lily in NYC*

      Oh wow, this is interesting. If they won’t be able to see if I think it’s ok to blame it on something else. I would probably mention it if you think it will beep. Construction is a good idea – all I could think of was saying it was for my dog!

    2. Sadsack*

      You could mention upfront that you are wearing a monitor for a test without going into any detail, or just see if it goes off and then give the same explanation.

    3. just laura*

      I think I’d ignore it and not mention it. There’s a chance it’ll just seem like background noise. Can you do a test video call with a friend?

      1. AnonPi*

        ooh good idea, that way you can make sure your chat program is running ok and microphone/speakers sound ok too

      2. Sadsack*

        I second this! Only consider my original comment if you think the sound will be really distracting.

    4. Mints*

      I think testing with a friend is a good idea, and if it’s pretty unnoticeable and rare, I would say nothing. (Let them think it a car outside, or your neighbor’s phone or whatever). If it’s fairly noticeable, I’d go with a white lie – construction is a good idea.

  144. Bekx*

    Anyone know anything about sweepstakes/raffle laws?

    A local yarn store is offering a yarn tour. You have to spend 10 dollars at each store to get a stamp. For every 5 stamps, you are entered in to win a gift basket.

    I’m fairly certain this falls under sweepstakes laws “No purchase necessary” and all….but then I know a lot of places like churches, my middle school, random companies….do things like Chinese Auctions. This same yarn store has a rule where for every 10 dollars you spend, you’re entered into a giftcard drawing.

    I don’t want to be that person by asking if it’s no purchase necessary…but at the same time…US Law is clear that lotteries/sweepstakes/gambling is punishable.

    1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      IANAL but I’m pretty familiar with sweepstakes laws and that doesn’t follow any of them.

      There are some exceptions for charitable organizations (it may be exception by law or it may be exception by looking the other way) but there’ s no way ( I strongly believe) that’s legal.

      Sweepstakes laws are by state. Google your state + sweepstakes laws.

      1. Bekx*

        That’s what I was thinking. I took a few media law classes in college that covered this, and that’s what made me pause. I’d really like to gently inform the owner, because she’s a really nice woman and you can get fined for that, but I’m not sure how to bring it up!

        1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

          I think you can do it nicely. Alison as that whole “we” script for legal issues at work. You could modify it something like:

          “Hey Erma, I wanted to talk to you for a sec because I’m concerned. There are some very specific laws about sweepstakes, and I’m worried for you, because I don’t think what you’re doing here is following the laws. I would hate to see trouble made for you and in the eyes of the state, this might be breaking gambling laws. You should ask your lawyer or look up the state laws so you are safe.”

          Blah blah.

          ’cause that’s the essence. If something doesn’t follow sweepstakes laws, it’s illegal gambling.

          IANAL!!

        2. Artemesia*

          Why on earth would you meddle with this? What are the odds that the government is ending someone out to enforce this? Would it be a good idea if they did? Why do you care? Leave the poor woman alone.

  145. Kairi*

    My friend on the IT team told me he spent 3 hours on the phone with a virtual employee walking her through the steps of setting up her new surface pro, and how to use Outlook…

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I can believe it. I’ve had phone calls like that before… and remote support (even with something like TeamViewer) is always difficult and takes much longer than in-person support.

  146. Amy Farrah Fowler*

    After reading so many of the intern horror stories, it really made me think about my own work ethic, how I got started, mistakes I’ve made along the way, etc. I think one of the things that really helped me get off on a decently good footing was that when I was a young teenager, my mother would occasionally take me to work with her. Usually it was a day or two during winter break or a few days during a summer, not consistent or long term, and usually when she had some busy work she could hand my way.

    I know there have been letters before about how distracting it can be to have young children in an office, but it got me to thinking. A well-behaved 12-14 yr. old can do things like hole punching, put postage on outgoing mail, stuff envelopes. She tended to work in fairly casual environments, so it wasn’t a big deal. Do you think it’s a good idea to expose kids to stuff like that so that when they get their first job/internship, they’ll feel a little more confident and have an idea how to use a copier? Sure things will vary from office to office, but I can see this being a positive thing for the kids as well as the companies which will be thought of as family friendly and get some cheap and/or free busy work done in the process.

    1. Amber Rose*

      Why not? I did it all the time in elementary for my mom. I was supplied juice boxes and granola bars and told to stuff envelopes or copy documents or whatever else. It didn’t hurt me and probably did a lot for me. Made offices a lot less scary when I was older.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      I think that is fine and very different than bringing a child who needs babysitting to work. I started working at summer jobs when I was 13 and I’m so glad I did it.

    3. Judy*

      My parents were both elementary school teachers before retiring. I spent the week before school for maybe 18 years putting up bulletin boards, making copies, sorting things, and stuffing envelopes. Not just for them, but for the other teachers and the office personnel.

    4. AnotherFed*

      IANAL, but I’d be concerned about legalities – running afoul of child labor laws if they were doing anything too useful, liability if the child gets hurt by the shredder or paper cutter, and having the kids potentially see or overhear sensitive information without understanding it’s not to be shared.

      1. Amy Farrah Fowler*

        Yeah, I know that before I was 16, I either did it for free, or my mom paid me $10-20 depending on how much I accomplished. Once I was 16, they went ahead and did the paperwork to pay me officially. I’m sure there are legalities about it, but I think it’s a hugely useful experience, even if not 100% above board. Maybe that’s why smaller companies are more likely to allow such things. They may not have a legal dept or know what liabilities come from that.

    5. Observer*

      I’ve done it with my kids plenty of times. You have to know your child, and your office environment, though.

    6. blackcat*

      When volunteering in my brother’s first grade class, my mom discovered that her 3 year old daughter was EXCELLENT at filing and thought it was THE MOST FUN THING EVER. While I didn’t know how to “read” per se, I was (and still am) excellent at memorizing things, so I could memorize how the 25 kids spelled their names. Despite my enjoyment of the activity, I think it would have been WILDLY inappropriate anywhere other than a 1st grade classroom….

      At 14, my dad hired me over winter break to deal with a huge (mid-sized room full) of paper records in preparation for the office moving. I was given a long list of what I should expect to find and told how to go about organizing/boxing it. One of the paralegals hung out for the first day to make sure I had the hang out it, then it was just me (uh, yeah, this was a law office. totally breaking labor law. My dad looked into hiring a temp, but couldn’t find one willing to work the solid block around Christmas/New Years with only 2 days off. This was in the late 90s boom era and there was like 2% unemployment in the area). After 2 weeks of nearly full time work, I had dealt with about nearly all of it, and made a HUGE amount of money by teenage standards. Mostly, I really liked being given an “adult” task–I think precisely because it was more than simple filing, yet was simple enough that I only needed 1 day of training. It was a useful, time sensitive task, and some of my dads employees were totally shocked that I was actually able to focus on the task for 7 hours a day. But it is very much about knowing your child. The aforementioned brother was not asked to work because he struggles with attention to detail. And messing up the legal documents could have big, bad consequences.

      I think this sort of mid-level busywork is really common for the kids of small business owners (it wasn’t a “family” business, but my dad was the co-owner. There were something like 40 employees).

      My dad recently told me, that FIFTEEN YEARS LATER, they finally got all of those records scanned. Apparently they had to outsource that one…

  147. Persephone Mulberry*

    10 resumes sent out in the past week. Taking a week of vacation made me realize how deep into Bitch Eating Crackers mode I am about everything and everyone at this job, even the projects and people I basically like. I’m trying to not let this influence the jobs I’m applying for, and sway me toward stuff that wouldn’t actually be a good fit just for the sake of getting out.

    And last night I dreamed I got fired (I am in no danger of being fired). I dreamt that a package showed up at my house, and in it was all of my personal desk stuff and a literal pink slip that just said “Sorry.”

  148. Hlyssande*

    Separate from the moving of desks, I had to give a 20 minute presentation to my group’s new VP on Wednesday.

    I know the guy because he used to run my old department (we’re getting rolled into his, which is brand new), and he’s awesome, but it was pretty nerve-wracking. Went well, though! He didn’t give us that much direction for what he wanted, so I put in a personal bit and he got a picture of my cat. Because cats.

    The only downside was that I was struggling with a migraine that got bad enough that I had to go home shortly after the meeting.

  149. Rose*

    I’m currently trying to figure out a tricky work/life thing right now, and how I might be able to rein it in.

    So I’m going through an unbelievably stressful time right now with some life stuff that’s not going well, and I’ve been anxious and sad a lot of the time. The “upside” to this, is that my work productivity has never been better–in fact, one might say I’m almost *too* productive. I’m doing high-quality work, but I’m doing it at approximately 3 times the speed I’m usually able to work. I think I’m just so desperate not to think about what’s going on outside of work that I get a laser focus on my tasks and just get done so fast, then run the risk of getting bored. I’m sure the rest of my coworkers are enjoying the break (I’ve been jumping on all the small daily tasks that aren’t anybody’s particular responsibility but are usually shared between department members), but I’ve already asked my supervisor for more work twice this week and I feel like if I ask for more I’ll be bothering her. For context, I don’t think I’ve ever had to ask her for more work before because I ran out of things to do, and each time I asked her for more work this week she gave me at least a normal 3 days’ worth of work that I completed in one day. My supervisor is definitely not complaining, because she’s loving the productivity, but I think this could turn into an annoyance rather quickly.

    I’m working (only somewhat successfully) on getting my anxiety under control, but until I do I either need to tame my current loose-cannon nature without getting too anxious, or I need to find things to do to keep myself busy. I used to do research on work-related issues when I had down time, but my supervisor insinuated at my last evaluation that she didn’t like that I was doing that on company time. I could probably get away with it because I’m generally a high performer, but I don’t want to push something she’s told me she doesn’t like.

    Suggestions? Commiserations? Similar stories to share?

    1. schnapps*

      I hate that feeling and I love that feeling – that feeling that you’re doing excellent work at a high productivity level because you’re avoiding thinking about what’s really bugging you.

      What is your exercise level like? Are you taking your breaks and can you do some exercise at lunch, even if it’s just going for a brisk walk? Can you meditate for 10 minutes on a coffee break? I have anxiety & depression. I do take zoloft, but the exercise and meditation help quite a bit. And the break in the middle of the day on my lunch break is a godsend.

      Also: Do you have an EAP at work? Or some sort of benefits that would allow you to talk to a counselor? This personal stress will start impacting your work (in ways other than “higher productivity”). Get that straightened out: walk, talk and think about what’s going on. You may not want to, but often the only way to deal with it is to face it, and if you can do that with someone else, it’s very helpful.

      Best of luck to you.

  150. TheSnarkyB*

    What’s your maternity leave policy like?

    I’m curious about different companies’ maternity leave policies. I haven’t commented in a while and I’m sorry if we’ve covered this recently, but out of curiousity, can people post under this question about their company’s maternity, paternity, or family leave policies? I know nothing about how this stuff works and am finding myself pretty confused between paid, unpaid, disability, and FMLA, I have no idea. For reference, I’ve never worked at a job that had full benefits before so feel free to fill me in on what’s standard, what’s generous, etc.
    I’m curious about:
    – your field, your seniority (if it applies to the benefits question), and your company size
    – how much leave can moms or birth-givers take? What about dads or non-birth-laboring partners? What about adoptive parents? What’s paid and what’s not?
    – do you feel the policy is fair, generous, stingy?

    Thanks for y’all’s input!! I miss being on here all the time! Damn full-time employment :)

    1. Ad Astra*

      I work for a medium-sized company and, as far as I can tell, there are no policies specific to maternity or paternity. You just use whatever sick and vacation time you have, then short-term disability insurance (if you had the foresight to opt in at open enrollment), and then FMLA.

      It’s… not great.

      1. Another Cog*

        This is pretty much how my company operates, too. >10,000 employees (though only 100 in my branch).

        – PTO
        – State disability (I’m in CA)
        – SDI
        – FMLA

        You can manage about 6 months off this way, but a lot of it will be unpaid. IIRC, this is the same whether you’ve adopted, or are the mother or father.

        1. CAA*

          In California, we also have paid family leave, which is up to 6 weeks at 55% of salary with a max benefit of $1104/week.

          1. NoCalHR*

            California also has Pregnancy Disability Leave – a little more than 17 weeks of job-protected leave with a doctor’s certification required. PDL, as well as FMLA, are unpaid leaves. I work for a non-profit foundation, about 250 employees. Employees can use their accrued sick and vacation time during PDL/FMLA or the California Family Rights Act (CFRA) baby-bonding leave (another unpaid job-protected leave). We encourage employees to apply for SDI prior to birth, Paid Family Leave (PFL) after birth (PFL is only applicable when off work to care for an immediate family member). So if the situation requires it, an employee could take 17 weeks PDL (FMLA running concurrently for 12 weeks) followed by 12 weeks CFRA. All job-protected, all unpaid. And since this is all legally required for eligible employees, fairly standard.

    2. AnotherFed*

      Federal government here. I’ve never had cause to investigate it, but I think you can take as much leave as you have stockpiled plus the 12 weeks of FMLA unpaid leave, regardless of whether it’s a birth, adoption, or foster kid or you’re the mother/father/guardian. I knew one person who was able to take almost an entire year off, but she also had serious complications that meant she wasn’t up for coming back, not that she just decided to stay home with the baby for longer.

      Seniority doesn’t really apply, except that presumably if you’ve been healthy and worked for longer, you have more leave built up than someone with fewer years in the government. There’s no limit to how much sick leave you can accrue, at it builds up at rate of 4 hours per 2 week pay period, so some people end up with months and months of leave that they never use.

      If you don’t have much paid leave available, there are also options to get advanced sick leave approved or to have other people donate their annual leave to you.

    3. Sunshine Brite*

      Ours you can take a mix for birth or adoption including 3 weeks paid leave, FMLA, short term disability after your leave is reduced to 80hrs overall which seems to add up to a good amount for the US.

    4. fposte*

      State university. Looks like 2 paid weeks for parental leave, either parent, adoptive or birth. FMLA runs concurrently so you’d have up to 10 more weeks in addition to those; any subsequent paid leave would need to be sick or vacation days.

  151. Stick-Tech Drone*

    Okay so here is the scoop. I have worked seasonally for a company off and on for the past 5 years. The last time I worked there it wasn’t great… Safety measures are enforced arbitrarily; a person was written up for removing their bump cap in an area where it wasn’t required, women from admin regularly enter factory designated areas with open toe shoes then complain they were harassed when asked to return with regulation footwear, safety officer has written people up for having their cell phone on their person when they have a documented exception etc.

    Sanitation, which I believe is also a safety issue, was atrocious more often than not (think port o potties with no soap or toilet paper and go from there) but when brought up to members of management would be met with “not my responsibility.” Brought up to HR, “Sorry, but you need to address this with your manager.”

    I just got my invitation to reapply for this season, and unless these things have been addressed I am not interested in working for this company. How can I politely suss this out during the interview? I don’t want to accept the job under these conditions, because I do not want to have to fight to (unsuccessfully) rectify them once on the job.

    Anyway I am sure it seems like a non issue, like I just don’t apply for, or accept the job if I don’t like it, but I am on unemployment (and this is the job that laid me off so I will have a hard time saying it is unsuitable work) and my family will be in dire straits if I lose it this quickly. Any advice?

    1. fposte*

      Ugh. Sucks. If you have to take it regardless, is there something that knowing in advance would get you?

      1. Stick-Tech Drone*

        To be honest, I am not sure. I was hoping I would find a different job before this happened, but alas no bites. I definitely want to make a point, that sanitation is unacceptable and that they are losing workers over it. It would be nice if I could say that unless these things have changed I am not interested in working for them, because once I agree to come back, I will have absolutely no time to job hunt and will be stuck at least until next May. But you are probably right, I probably don’t have a choice if I want to keep my butt off the streets. :(

  152. Diddly*

    Just hate looked at my old companies website – was somewhat satisfying – they don’t appear to have gotten anyone to fill my role (far too many duties for too little pay anyway…) or like the rest of the website – which includes date important details it has not at all been updated over the summer, their social media presence is also not great and their newsletter is rubbish.
    The small things.

  153. FurnitureLady*

    Well…after FIVE rounds of interviews, and a full reference check I finally got a reply from the job I was hoping to get. And – it was a no. I’m completely devastated. They told me it was “very close” between me and the other person and they want to hire me for the next opening. Whatever.

    It hurts so much more when you’ve invested so much time. Sadface.

    1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      omg I am so sorry FurnitureLady. :( I remember your previous posts on the subject.

      Five interviews. So sorry!

    2. The Other Dawn*

      Ugh, I’m so sorry to hear that!! Look at it this way, it was “very close,” not a land slide. That’s saying something. Good luck in your job search!

    3. Steve G*

      Ouch I did 4 in April for a job and they never called me back after the last one with the owner, and the job is still being posted on all of the sites!

      The owner looked shocked when I told him how much I made. It was a job in Finance and I made an average 5-figure salary for a financial analyst, I know so many people in similar jobs making more. I surmised that they were looking for someone who was underpaid and would be happy with a low salary, because I don’t know what else to think since I had so many interviews that went great.

      1. FurnitureLady*

        Thanks for the sympathy – it stings now, but I’ve just got to move on. Easier said then done though!!

      2. ConstructionHR*

        That’s one of the reasons our industry gets the money question out of the way early.

    4. Artemesia*

      This happened to my daughter — who like you was so sure after all those interviews — and she replied graciously, they asked her in for the Christmas party and told her they hoped to have some contract work in the future, hired her on a contract project and then told her they thought they might have a full time position by summer, hired her full time right on schedule and the guy who beat her out for the original job is long gone and she is now promoted and loving the job. So sometimes it works out. So let them know you are interested in future positions and how much you were impressed by them during the interviews. and then perhaps follow up once in about 3 mos. Good luck.

  154. Regina*

    I have a severe confidence problem in the workplace, and I need to do something about it. I hate speaking in meetings, I hate getting any projects or responsibility, feel like I don’t have an opinion on anything (and I don’t, but it’s because I don’t want to say anything that rocks the boat, so ultimately, I just do what someone tells me — I don’t feel qualified enough to be the one to take stock and have an opinion on the situation).

    I’m realizing just how much of an impact this has had on my life. I was always the shy kid in class, and always hated raising my hand. I feel like there’s a direct connection with my inability to ever contribute in meetings. I don’t think I’ll ever be viewed as a leader or respected authority, but I do want to be that person.

    Anytime I ever try to say something or suggest something, I get shot down, and it hits my already fragile self-esteem/ego. The weird thing is, on the outside, I look okay. I’ve been promoted repeatedly, and my managers tell me I’m doing a great job. But I know what it is to be a rock star, and someone people respect, and I’m not that person. I’m tired of feeling so inferior all the time, and always being the one that has to ask for advice and can never give it out.

    I imagine people will suggest therapy, although I’ve never had a good experience with that (I don’t like open, honest communication — which is probably a huge part of this problem). Are there job-specific counselors out there? I don’t have a ton of money — how many sessions would I need? How can you figure that out at the outset?

    I’ve been feeling really down about this lately and want to do something about. I don’t know who to turn to because I don’t think anyone in my life wants to hear about this anymore.

    1. fposte*

      Oh, that’s an uncomfortable feeling; I’m sorry. It sounds like some pretty serious risk aversion there, and that can be a hard boundary to expand.

      I think there are coaches who work with a more work-oriented view, but they’re probably not covered by insurance, and I don’t know how you find one who’s good vs. somebody who just hung out their shingle as a life coach. Maybe somebody else will have an idea.

      You might also look into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy as opposed to “Here are my feelings” therapy; that’s more about training your brain in the desired way.

    2. Graciosa*

      I think you’re right that not liking open, honest communication is a huge part of the problem. I’m trying to think of any leaders or respected authorities that I’ve worked with who lacked this (open, honest communication), and I’m not coming up with many (none if you only count people who were not ultimately fired from their leadership roles). You will need to be able to handle this if you aspire to that kind of role.

      You could ask your manager for assistance in practicing this skill. Could you start with presenting? It identifies you as an authority but you know your material well in advance. It doesn’t have to be anything that requires you to answer questions (“Regina will present our July results”) or even stand up if that’s where you need to start, nor does it have to be lengthy. But you will get to speak in a meeting without anything bad happening (your boss could step in to answer questions about why X was down in July if necessary).

      You can then start to increase your exposure gradually over time (longer presentations, more frequent, answering a few questions, etc.). Toastmasters is a good venue for practicing this outside of work.

      Another option is to plan a suggestion (with your boss or trusted colleagues) and arrange support beforehand. Then you can build up some experience making a suggestion and hearing positive feedback.

      I will be blunt about the need to get to the point where this does not matter that much to you if you want to be seen as a leader. I’m not saying it’s fun to be shot down, but you do have to be able to get up again with a smile.

      I have had a lot of ideas shot down. A lot. You must get to the point where you can separate your sense of self from your work product (an idea) enough to keep putting the ideas out there even when they are instantly slaughtered.

      The good news is that when an idea is shot down, I usually learn something that helps me next time – whether it’s about the business, or our systems, or people I work with – and the ideas get better with practice.

      A large part of my value to my employer is my ability to participate effectively in meetings. If you can’t make this contribution, your value is limited. Effective meeting participation requires more than just presenting ideas – you need to make it easy for other people to share flaws in your plans so that you can change them before the damage is done. You need to point out flaws in other people’s plans without causing offense. You need to build relationships and negotiate for support. This is just a very superficial overview – there’s a lot more to it – but I want to be clear with you that learning to speak up is only the first step.

      If the downside of not learning how to do this well (a limited career) is worse than the negative aspects of learning to do this well (getting shot down a lot – repeatedly – for a very long time) then coming up with a plan to practice and develop this skill will help get you started.

      If therapy makes it easier for you to do this, or changes your feelings of inferiority, go for it. But from a work perspective, what you do and how you present yourself is what matters.

      Good luck.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Echoing, I have had a lot of ideas shot down, too. On some days, I tell myself that I have to learn to LIKE rejection.

        But it is really important to know that a lot, I mean a real lot, of people feel that most of their ideas get shot down. It’s important to know this. It’s not you. It is important to keep trying. We have to fine tune our ideas to match the company’s and boss’ needs/preferences. This fine tuning does not happen in one week, one month even one year. It takes a while.

        It could be that the boss is a jerk about saying no. Well, if that is the case that is a whole different story. I am assuming that you have a decent boss and a decent company.

    3. nep*

      ‘Anytime I ever try to say something or suggest something, I get shot down’ — What do you mean by this? Could you give some examples? How many times are you talking about here? (As in, 10 times out of 10, two out of two…?)

    4. Anxious Adult*

      I can relate to this in some levels, as I am also a shy person and am afraid/not good at confrontation.

      I think for now it is not important to worry about whether you will develop leader/management personality. Some people just don’t have management abilities and that is okay.

      I will focus on developing ways to speak up and know how to say what I need to say.

      Yes, it is going to be hard and it can take a really long time. I am currenlty eperienceing that.

      I think talking to AAM readers can be a good way to help. Sometimes it helps me have a better perspective of a situation.

  155. Not Bipolar - as far as the boss knows...*

    I could use some advice. I know this has come up a few times before, but I’m hoping to hear some new advice. This is probably not the place for this, but here goes.

    I was diagnosed bipolar back in 2007. Since then, I’ve been off and on meds (currently “on” though we haven’t found the right ones), in and out of therapy, etc., but never hospitalized. I have managed to keep it from interfering with work – until now.

    I started my current job July of last year, and this performance review cycle is the first time in my entire working life that I did not receive a sterling review – in fact, I got, barely, meets expectations. Just this week, I was put on a performance improvement plan.

    I don’t know how to handle this. The PIP process is entirely new to me. I know it’s a terrible time to inform HR/my boss of my condition, and I don’t know if I even want to do that because of the extreme stigma attached to it. I also believe my position — managing interdepartmental projects, being the liaison between department heads and my own department, project managing — precludes any adjustments they could make to reasonably accommodate my disorder.

    I’m seriously considering going to the hospital because of where I am mentally. Unfortunately, meeting the current deadlines are a large part of my PIP conditions and a large part of why I need a PIP in the first place.

    I know health comes first, but if I lose this job things are quickly going to spiral out of control in my personal life. I live in an expensive area and I can’t afford it if I don’t have the level of income I have now.

    I may lose my job if I disclose my condition, I may lose my job even if I don’t. If I go to the hospital and it interferes with my ability to meet deadlines, I fail my PIP and lose my job. If I don’t get help and my condition stays the same or worsens, I’m going to end up seriously injured or worse — and still lose my job.

    Anyone have any advice on what I can do? I honestly can’t tell if I’m making things out to be worse than they are…

    1. LCL*

      Based on what you wrote, and what you said you want and need, you need professional attention ASAP. You must contact your health care practitioners, for your sake. I think you are going to have to contact HR to get the FMLA process started.
      Right now, worst case, all roads end in you losing your job. You are better off with some protection and some breathing room going through the FMLA process. FMLA isn’t magical, but it can buy you some time while you get treatment.

      1. Sammie*

        I agree, however I was given a doctor’s note for a week’s leave due to high-stress. I gave HR a heads up about a possible FMLA situation. I came back after a week off—and was terminated that day.
        It took me 10 months to find another job.

        Be careful—most employers don’t give two boogers about their employees!

    2. Sunshine Brite*

      Based on how bad you say your health currently is, you need to disclose your diagnosis. Bipolar disorder is misunderstood and misconstrued. If you feel comfortable you might disclose what your version of the disorder presents like in a very overview sort of way. Ask for accommodations like any chronic health problem with unpredictable episodes. You may lose your job either way by the sounds of it so might as well do your best to protect both your health and your job.

      1. Mints*

        Yeah, bipolar is one of the worst misunderstood diagnoses (imo). It’s used a lot to mean “crazy” but the symptoms overlap a lot with depression, which I’ve seen to be more accepted. With that being said, I think it would okay to call it “depression” if you decide to disclose.

    3. Graciosa*

      I apologize if I should know this, but can you add a little more information about how your condition is (or is not) impacting your work? It could make a difference in my advice.

      For example, assuming the PIP is primarily tied to completing work on deadline, if you haven’t been meeting deadlines because you haven’t received critical information from a co-worker, or don’t have the tools you need to do your job, or did not have the required specifications, or just don’t have an essential skill at the right level, then I don’t think the information about your bipolar condition is relevant.

      If you haven’t been meeting deadlines because of your condition (or medication side effects while you attempt to manage it or something else related) then I would recommend saying so. I don’t know what – if any – difference it would make in your PIP success, but if you worked for me, I would want to know about any factors that affected your ability to perform the job successfully.

      I don’t know enough to know what – if anything – a manager could do to help in this situation, but you don’t know unless you have the conversation. An accommodation could be as simple as a little time to get the meds right.

      Worse case scenario (assuming you lose your job) there could be a significant difference in your reference if your boss thinks you failed because you weren’t trying rather than failed because of a medical condition.

      I wouldn’t disclose the latter in a reference check, you understand, but there can be a lot of difference between “Jane was never able to get her job done, and we finally got rid of her because she just wouldn’t do the work,” and “Unfortunately, we discovered that this job turned out not to be a good fit for Jane although I think we both wish that hadn’t been the case. She really wanted to make it work and put in a lot of effort, but in the end we both saw that it wasn’t working. She does have good skills in A, B, and C, and I hope she’s able to find a role where she can make good use of them.”

      We have a great community on this site, so another AAM reader may be able to give you better advice with a little more knowledge about this disorder or how it is impacting your work. Still, I wanted to pass on what I could, and urge you (if it’s relevant) to have the conversation. My hope is that it won’t be as bad as you think it will, and may at least get your manager thinking about how to help you.

      Best wishes.

      1. Not Bipolar - as far as the boss knows...*

        I don’t mind. It’s easy to share details when it’s with the anonymous internet. Not so much with people you have to work with.

        I’ve been experiencing the major depression elements: inability to focus, not being able to remember things, poor sleep (which means I can be irritable or completely glazed over), and being excessively withdrawn and quiet. The first ones are obvious in how they impact deadlines, the last one is curious. Because of the interdepartmental aspect, coworkers have mentioned I seem “closed off” and that it “brings down the energy in the room.” Conversations about how they could make an effort themselves aside, that’s obviously a problem.

        I understand about the disclosure changing the context. I’d love to do that. I’ve tied a lot of fear to it and I’m always optimistic (hah) that this is just temporary, it’ll turn around, and there’s no need to muddy the water in the mean time.

        Thank you for giving me a reason to trust that some people have well-being of their employees in mind.

    4. fposte*

      I think your illness is doing some of the talking here, and that’s another reason why LCL is so right on call your doctor today.

      This is a no-brainer to me. Non-disclosure is an option when your performance doesn’t raise any questions, but when your performance is actually impaired by a health problem there is no benefit in pretending you just stopped being competent for random reasons. Presuming your employment meets the conditions, FMLA would protect your job while you went into the hospital; it’s also worth considering that the ADA would allow you to request accommodations if you think there’s something that might minimize your illness’s impact on your work.

      Speaking as a manager, I want to know if there’s a health thing because it gives me additional tools as well as additional perspective. I want to be able to treat you fairly, and if I don’t know this about you, I can’t do that.

    5. Today's anon*

      I had a major depressive episode a long while ago and it severely impacted my sleep (I was sleeping 2-3 hours a night max) and of course that was impacting my work. So while I was working with a psychiatrist to get some helpful meds and therapy, they also prescribed a very mild anti-depressive that had a drowsy effect and helped with sleep and I slept! It made a ton of different in how I could handle work because I had just been going in and being a zombie and not producing anything. It didn’t cure the main underlying issues but at least I was able to show up at work in a productive way (I didn’t become a party person but I could do my job). I’m not sure if that would work for you but I was really amazed at how much just being able to sleep helped.

  156. Macedon*

    This one fellow – whom I don’t know personally or by way of the company he represents – has been visiting my Linkedin profile daily* for a few weeks now. I know it’s sort of netiquette to politely pretend that you don’t notice who’s viewing your Linkedin page, or at least to abstain from commenting on it — but his ‘routine’ has made me impossibly curious about what in the world it is that he wants. I’d assume that if he were recruiting or fishing for a job, he’d have gotten in touch with me directly by now.

    Has anyone else dealt with peculiar Linkedin ‘fans’ of sorts? How did you go about it?

    *he stopped for a three-day period at one point, then followed up with two weeks of unbroken daily devotion

    1. Brett*

      The LinkedIn phone app does this some times. I had someone yell at me (yes yell) because she thought I was visiting her profile too much. It was actually just that I had some notification from her related to a group I run, and the iOS app was generating phantom profile visits because I was reading the notification.

      1. Macedon*

        I initially assumed it must have been a glitch too, except a few other people from his company also viewed my profile over time – though he’s the only one of them who persisted in daily pilgrimage. Also, I don’t belong to any groups, I don’t post updates or articles… really, the only way to reach me is through a direct search.

        I’ve come to speculate he likes to behold the monstrosity of a shirt I’m wearing in my profile picture. He must console himself that, however poor his occasional life decisions, at least he’s never reached those depths of sartorial despair.

    2. Steve G*

      Are you a recruiter? Or are you linked with someone who has a job posted? I am job hunting and often go through the Linkedin profiles of people posting jobs + their coworkers, and I often end up looking at the same profiles a few times, usually but not always by mistake. I am trying to gauge what type of experience they really want since so many job ads are vague or generic, there is nothing nefarious going on.

      1. Macedon*

        Not a recruiter, no. The multi-national company I work for has some jobs out, but none of them at my location. My name isn’t even especially common – certainly, there’re no recruiters on Linkedin who share it.

        I’m sure there’s nothing nefarious going on, but my curiosity’s itching by now. I’ve got half a mind to add the gent on Linkedin and see if it triggers any kind of direct interaction.

    3. Mints*

      It hasn’t happened to me, but I think it would be okay to send a message. I’m a really curious person. Other people are better at wording things, but I think you could send whatever your best guess is in a friendly “Hello! I see you work at Wakeen’s. Are you looking to recruit [my position]?”

      1. Macedon*

        See, that’s the other thing – they’re in a different industry, with no equivalent role to mine. He’s not looking to hire me.

        It’s an ongoing mystery, and I’ve made it a challenge to try to crack it without asking straight up.

  157. Brett*

    Well, we were just told this week that our pay freeze is likely going to last through 2020 (started in 2007). But I made some big advances this week.

    An opportunity popped up at a local company in May that looked really good. I am nearly a 100% match for preferred qualifications. The qualifications are pretty high level, so I suspect it has been up for so long because they have not found anyone. It would likely be about a 20% pay increase (and a move to someone that actually gives raises). It is a lead position in a research unit; it not only has support for conferences and publications but expectations to actively participate in those. Unfortunately, the recruiter I spoke to had reservations about my employer and their post-employment restrictions.

    So, I sucked it up and spoke directly to our head of personnel and our legal department. That meant telling them that I was planning to seek new employment and exactly which employer that was with. They did the research though, and told me that I would be clear to leave for them. The other company is having their legal look at our ordinances to make sure.

    And all of this is before I even apply! But I am going to spend this weekend working on my resume and application and get that turned in next week. I know it is still possible I would not even get an interview, much less the position (especially if their legal does not like the liability of the ordinances), but at least its a glimmer of getting out.

    1. Another Cog*

      A 13 year pay freeze! How many people have melted after that announcement? Sheesh, that’s insane for precisely the reason you’re looking!

      Best of luck to you. It seems your industry is not unknown for that sort of thing, but that’s why it’s still true that moving companies is the best way to get a raise these days.

    3. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      You have one of the oddest stories I have ever heard.

      I cannot believe how you’ve been locked into a job that you almost can’t get out of, and still feed yourself, and THEN, if that wasn’t bad enough, locked into one with no hope of any kind of raise or advancement or remediation for how far under market pay you are.

      I am sure a magazine writer would be interested in this story. Hell, John Oliver would probably be interested in the story. Not that would be of any use to you.

      I hope this is the way out!

      1. Brett*

        Well, it is not like I am working slave wages and scrapping by. My salary is above median _household_ income for our county. I just make much much less than normal for my skills and experience.

        I think the tragic part is that I am one of 4000 employees, with the majority of those employees making under $35k and still not receiving raises while they get benefits cut. Those lower paid employees are not doing bid and contract work that can lock them in under the ethics rules, but they are still getting progressively more and more screwed over on wages. Even without the mess I am in, seeking new employment is tough when you are not paid well but have a bunch of time sunk into seniority based vacation and retirement benefits.

        1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

          I appreciate that you aren’t working slave wages, but to be so locked in is just so freaking bizarre.

          A court would never hold up a for profit non-compete that left the person essentially no other option than to work for that employer or work fast food for X years.

      2. Artemesia*

        Do not compete ought to be legislated out of existence except in very narrow cases e.g. high level employee in the 6 figures who takes clients with her. It is horrifying to have it and then freeze raises.

    4. Rebecca*

      Wow, at least I’m free to find another job! My manager told me that I should expect no further merit increases, cost of living increases, or any type of pay increase. Ever. Others don’t make as much as I do, so they need to get whatever tiny increases the mother ship decides to dole out. Oh, and I get chastised for not doing more to improve processes and provide new ideas, but when I do, I have to send them to this manager, and they disappear into the black hole of her inbox never to see the light of day. Add to this a 1/3 reduction in paid holidays and sick days.

      Uh, no, I have at least 15 years to work before I retire, and I can’t imagine doing this every year until 2030. I won’t be able to afford to drive back and forth to work by then.

      So, I’m looking, and still employed so I can be choosy. For now, I just do whatever I need to do to get by, and seriously, if the building was on fire, I’d be hurried to hand over a glass of water. Way to make me feel appreciated, boss!

  158. NewBooks*

    I saw this article recently: http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/08/why-we-need-older-women-in-the-workplace.html

    I’m very, very far removed from retirement and in my field (libraries) it is kinda common to have older women in the workplace, but as someone who is a woman and aspires to leadership, I’m somewhat concerned with advancing as far as I can before I get to the point where I want to start a family and may have to deal with balancing both. Thoughts on the article, on making strides as a young professional, or on balancing career and family?

    1. Graciosa*

      I think Penelope Trunk has a very different point of view, along the lines of have-kids-early-before-your-career-really-takes-off; then they will be old enough to be more self-sufficient when you approach your peak earning years. You might want to read some of her work for a contrasting point of view.

      Personally, I’m not convinced there are any guarantees either way, and I’ve seen success with both approaches.

      Also, I tend to be very leery of telling other people when they should have children (regardless of career impact). It’s just too personal.

  159. Hermit*

    A colleague asked me point blank if I lived alone. I don’t, but I don’t particularly want to share that. I was surprised to be asked and without thinking I said I lived alone. Now I feel like an idiot and am terrified it will come out that I lied.

    Is there any way out of this other than to pretend I misunderstood the question if it comes up in the future?

    2. fposte*

      I don’t think it’s a big deal. Laugh and say “Did I say that? Who knows what I was thinking?”

    3. Was it me?*

      I asked someone at work whether they lived alone this week. I truly didn’t mean to pry and didn’t mean to put the person I asked on the spot. If you were asked that question Thursday around lunchtime, please accept my apologies! (And I promise not to ever bring it up if you say something in the future that indicates you don’t live alone.)

  160. De Minimis*

    Way late to this….haven’t posted much lately.

    Still looking for work, it has been just over two months since I left my last job. There always seem to be things in the works, but nothing as of yet. One place said a while back they wanted to bring me in for a second interview but were trying to nail it down with the hiring manager, but she has been out of the office. They called last week but the person who called didn’t know why she was calling me and started to do a phone screen again for the same job. We went all the way through it before we both realized I’d already done that and had already come in for an interview. She said she would check with the other HR person who had told her to call me and see why she was supposed to call, but never heard anything after that.

    Been turned down for a couple of jobs, but both were positions that I was either under or over qualified for. Had an interview today for an auditor position with a neighboring county that went okay, but they will have to do a second interview. Not really thrilled about that job due to the hours and pay [they pay way, way below market, even for government jobs.] I’ll take it if that’s all I can get. I have other things in the works that I should have a good chance at, and found out yesterday my name was referred to the selecting official for a federal job nearby, though I’ve been in that position before and sometimes it means nothing.

    Still doing okay, haven’t gotten too depressed mainly because there’s always been an upcoming interview or new job to apply to. If this goes on another month or two things may change. We don’t really know what to do if I can’t find a job by the time my unemployment runs out. May have to separate again for work….

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Figures crossed and sending good vibes your way that something will break soon!

  161. Shell*

    Way late. Brief whine:

    I do purchasing and I generally buy from within Canada and the States. Most of my vendors from the States either have prepaid shipping set up with us, or we just let them quote us for freight and go with it.

    For various reasons I won’t go into here, we’ve decided that in certain circumstances, we’ll arrange a courier service and pickup at vendor ourselves rather than going with the vendor’s freight quote. Not using the vendors’ shipping quotes means my company has to deal with the paperwork. Which means that for the first time in my life, I get to figure out customs documents. Joys.

    I’ve worked in law, so I am used to the whole dot-Is-cross-Ts minutiae detail thing. But stiiiiiiiilll…augh.

    1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      That is the worst!

      Bane of my existence, orders outside of the US and Canadian customs is peculiar! The customs documents aren’t utterly horrible, but figuring out duty (we don’t sell just teapots but more like an entire variety store of merch), is, well, we won’t do it. Our experience is that how a particular shipment is classified and what level of duty is charged can depend on the mood of the Canadian custom agent.

      Meanwhile we would love you to pieces! We are so happy when one of our Canadian customers arranges transportation!!

      The absolute best is when they have a freight forwarder in the US for us to ship to.

      What we do in lieu is quote merch and shipping but send duty due and tell the customer that they must pay the duty. When we did otherwise, we got stuck with duty bills that no one wanted to pay afterwards.

      1. Shell*

        I think I’m doing one better than your customers. ;P I’m doing pickup at vendor, so if I were buying from you, all your warehouse guys have to do is pack the items onto a pallet and leave it in a corner and the courier will come pick it up. You don’t even have to ship it to a freight forwarder.

        Unless shipping to a freight forwarder confers benefits that pickup does not, in which case ignore me.

        I’m just looking at the customs invoice right now and euuuuuuuuuuugh. Gonna book some time with my purchasing manager on Monday so he can help me sort this out. My invoice won’t arrive until next week, so at least I have a weekend of respite before I have to deal with this.

        Paperwork. *flips table*

        1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

          So lovely! I mean, for the theoretical me in the situation.

          Yes, the only reason freight forwarder is the ultimate is that we don’t have to do custom docs of any kind. The second best is shipping on a customer’s account, but then we have to do the docs. Your set up would win, for us.

          The only thing I can say is that if you are usually shipping the same kind or kinds of products, the first part here will be the hardest and then it will get better because you can rinse repeat.

          All my sympathy!

          1. Shell*

            I hope my vendor feels the same way as you. I am incredibly amused/consoled by the mental image that my vendor rep is making heart-eyes at me through his monitor when he reads my email that says “we will arrange to pick up shipment X.”

            Maybe this will win me points with my vendor rep. :D

            Yeah, we do buy the same kinds of things from this vendor, so hopefully it’ll get easier in the future. Hopefully. (Auuuuuuuuuuuuuugh.)

      2. Former Diet Coke Addict*

        This is exactly why my company deals with a freight forwarder and customs broker. We arrange all of our own shipping, unless the vendor specifically requests otherwise, because it is such an enormous pain to order from the States otherwise. Specifically because otherwise we get stuck with customs and duty fees that neither party wants to pay for!

        Anyway, we are right now going through a major cluster because a new supplier in the States opted to arrange his own shipment, but didn’t want to take any of our advice and chose to do it in an insane way that maximizes the potential for screwups, which–surprise!–I spent my entire afternoon dealing with.

        1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

          That is the stupidest new supplier in the history of the universe.

          Clearly they are new to exporting.

          1. JB (not in Houston)*

            OMG I just spent two weeks trying, in my my spare time, to figure out how to ship two paint pens overseas. I felt so much like that scene in Home Alone where the mom is talking to the police department about Kevin being left behind, and she keeps getting transferred and having to tell the same story over. “Hi, I have a son who’s home alone. . . .” My friend overseas eventually told me not to worry about it, but I refused to accept that it wasn’t possible to get them shipped.

            And it was possible. But it was expensive. And probably, if I’d known what I was doing, it would not have been so expensive.

            We are sending a friend of ours some baby gifts, and I’m dreading filling out the customs forms. I always screw up. I do not understand why anyone would choose to do it themselves if someone else would do it for them.

          2. Former Diet Coke Addict*

            I swear they must be–with every other supplier, we get a couple of shipping quotes, notify the supplier which one we’re going with and arrange for pickup, and everything else is taken care of through our broker/forwarder.

            This supplier chose to handle it themselves by–I swear to God–putting out a bid for shipping, waiting to see if anyone would bite, and then gradually adding money to the bid until they found someone who would ship it. At which point they just informed us it was shipping, without asking any of the special considerations we were going to need (like a loading dock or forklift for a 750-lb shipment), which is why we are now dealing with a gigantic kludge NOT EVEN COUNTING the complete screwup I am confident we’re going to have with the invoicing and bill.

            We could have handled this far, far, far more easily by just fucking doing it ourselves.

  162. Cruciatus*

    Welp. That’s that. I no longer work for the company I’ve been at for 4.5 years. Yet I don’t feel weird yet. Maybe Monday as I drive to another job. I had a few moments of sadness saying goodbye to people but I basically walked out of there just like any other day, except I handed in my badge at the end. The security guard I gave it to even said “I’m a little envious of you right now.” Most people said “Good for you!” when they found out I was leaving. Maybe that’s why I’m not sad. It will take a little time to deprogram my brain at my new work place. What do you mean you are allowed to use USB ports without requesting permission from IT? What do you mean men don’t have to wear ties all the time (not that I’m a man, but still). Lots of strict things that somehow seem normal now years later but will be weird (I hope!) at any other work place.

  163. Anonyby*

    So, I’m feeling like I’ve accomplished something…and simultaneously feeling like a technogeek that I’m not. So, office I’ve been covering at for a while has had me make digital versions of these packets of forms, so that we can phase out the physical copies (in line with the company’s move in the paperless direction).

    Well, the other person covering deleted the folders I made in the Shared Folders area, because they (the person covering and the office admin) didn’t understand how and why I had things set up the way I did. Fair enough, I restored the folder (luckily the other person hadn’t cleared the recycle bin on her desktop) and created a primer for how the folder is to be used to create updated packets to be sent out.

    And then since there was trouble and I had to redo a rework of a form I did, I also created another primer on how to make the forms fillable.

    The admin has already given one look at the primer for the packets folder, and she’s going to look at the changes made to that one again and to the other before they get emailed out to the relevant parties. However, her looking at the first one made me feel like I’m some sort of technogeek wizard based on some of the basic (so I thought) computer terms I used. Ack. I don’t know how to describe these things succinctly other than using their actual terms. I’m already taking processes that seem rather intuitive to me and trying to write them out to be explicit.

    Yeah, I’m betting things will be a mess in just a couple of weeks after my current days scheduled here are up.

    1. Delyssia*

      Screenshots are your friend here. Use as many screenshots in your primers as you can to illustrate exactly what you’re describing. That should help reach both verbal and visual learners and generally help make it overly technical.

      Do your best, and if they mess it up later, oh, well. You tried.

  164. M.*

    Just got hired for a small part time job. Twenty hours a week, $8.50 an hour. I started last Friday, and then only worked Monday and Tuesday this week. Got a phone call Wednesday and they told me that there wasn’t enough work, so they were going to ask that I not come in again until Monday. I’m hoping this isn’t a routine thing, but I got a feeling that this job isn’t going to work out. I need to be making more than that. Also I only have two weeks to get up to a certain speed (it’s donation processing) and I’m hoping that these “don’t come in” days don’t count towards that.

    I’ve been toying with the idea of starting a small business, as this is what most of my friends in my situation are doing (unable to work for established companies for whatever reason). I actually have a lot of friends that are doing this. I’m just trying to figure out what the right angle would be, most of my skills are more office project based (data entry, making flyers/distributing them, filing paperwork with the state/town to start a business {pro at this}, those sort of things) and I’m not sure if like crafting or baking (I’ve done both and sold at fairs and such) would be something that would keep income flowing in. If I did this, then I’d probably keep the part time job for as long as I needed it. It just isn’t something that I can keep on its own.

    1. AnotherFed*

      My aunt did crafting, baking, and gardening for a while when she was between jobs and was trying to stretch unemployment. She found that the profit margins on so much of the crafting and baking were so small (and the time investment so big) that the only reason she was willing to do it was because it was better than taking a formal survival-level job but losing the unemployment. She did pretty well on the gardening/yard care – there were lots of people willing to cut lawns and lots of landscaping companies willing to totally redo yards, but not many services for people who wanted someone to handle spring clean up and flower planting, summer maintenance, and fall disposal so their yards, hedges, and flower beds always looked nice.

    2. Nanc*

      Have you thought about temping? If you have good office skills they should be able to keep you busy.

      Totally random business suggestion: if you like dogs and live in an area where folks have yards, how about a weekly pooper-scooper service? Many years ago I had a student who put herself through university this way. She had about 50 regular clients and charged per dog/per week.

      1. M.*

        The problem is that I am temping…

        I had one assignment with an agency that kept getting renewed with no end in sight, with no benefits, long hours, bad pay…. One agency kept sending me on interviews where I was definitely qualified but no bites, ended up sending me to a manufacturer near me, I worked one day then had a health issue act up, lost that job because the agency is insisting I get a doctor’s okay before I can go back to work…. The current job is with a third agency…

        Thanks for the suggestion, I could totally pick up dog poo :-). That’s really odd and may be a good way to get some $$, maybe I could team up with some small lawnmowers who don’t have the ride on equipment, I bet cleaning up someone’s yard that has a dog using a push mower could get well… gross.

  165. Eep.*

    So I have a full-time job with a state agency, but I’m also in graduate school. This hasn’t been an issue thus far, since all of my classes are in the evenings after work. Now, however, I’m going into the last year of my program and the final semester has a required 40 hour per week internship that’s facilitated by the university beginning in January. I’ve checked into it and there are no evening placements available. I was aware I was going to have to do an internship, but not aware that it would be full-time or that it would mean leaving my job if I want to complete my graduate degree (and I do).

    How can I break this to my supervisor in a way that doesn’t burn a bridge or make me look like a total flake? I want to keep my positive relationship with my supervisor when I leave (for reference purposes, and also because I genuinely like and respect her) and I definitely don’t want it to look like I was planning to jump ship all along, because I really wasn’t! My initial plan was to ask if it would be possible to go down to part-time for the semester (three months), because I really do enjoy my job and wouldn’t want to leave if I had another option.

    (The worst joke in this is that it’s an unpaid internship. The most I’d be able to get is a $2000 stipend and maybe some mileage reimbursement. So I’m definitely not moving on to greener pastures in any immediate way, which I’m sure would be less baffling.)

    1. AnotherFed*

      How related are your current job and your degree program? If they are the same area, could you talk to the university and see if you can get internship credit for the current job?

      1. Eep.*

        Not very. I monitor/audit an aspect of workers’ compensation in my state and am in a program to get my master’s degree in social work, and the university has very specific points each student has to hit in their placement plan that would not be satisfied by my duties at this job.

    2. Nanc*

      I would follow up on asking about working part-time. If that’s not an option, is there any way you could take an unpaid leave of absence so they could hire a temp or contractor? Honestly, I don’t see how this would be any different than covering for a maternity or medical leave. I would be mentally prepared for them to ask for you to stay a certain amount of time after returning if they grant either of these options.

      1. Eep.*

        With a 40 hour/week daytime internship and classes from 5:30 to 9:15 at night, part-time is definitely not going to be an option here, unfortunately. I was unsure if this was a situation where they’d just grant me leave of absence so I didn’t think about that, but I suppose I could run it by her when the time comes.

        1. Nanc*

          Ah, I missed the bit where you also had classes–yikes! The thing about the leave of absence–it doesn’t have to be complicated. Some companies have definite policies of what will or won’t work, others just treat it on a case by case basis. If you can do some planning up front such as documenting your duties (and completing SOPs if they don’t exist), suggesting what can go to coworkers for that term, outlining how/where they might find a temp or contract worker to cover, a short report of how this internship will benefit the company when you return, etc., it might make a stronger case for granting the leave. And again, this is a case where if they grant it, you should probably commit to sticking around for awhile.

          Good luck–let us know how it goes!

          1. Eep.*

            The good news is that my placement wouldn’t begin until next semester so I have some time. I won’t know how it goes until then, since I wasn’t planning on saying anything until a little closer to time because the university won’t even tell me where I’m placed until closer to January. I’ll update then, though!

    3. schnapps*

      Can you speak to your manager and request unpaid leave? I don’t know if that’s possible for you at all but it may be an option. It sounds like you have a decent relationship with her so she might be accommodating about it if you explain the circumstances.

      1. Eep.*

        That seems to be the only other viable option here, but I’m unsure if this qualifies as something they would grant me unpaid leave for. We do have a great working relationship and are on very good terms, and she does know I’m a graduate student, but I also had assured her when I got hired that it wouldn’t be an issue … because it didn’t look like it would be, and thus far it hasn’t been! Nothing I can do but ask, I suppose.

    4. Artemesia*

      Is there any possibility of working out an internship in your workplace with a different part of the organization or of having the internship waived because of the level of work you have already done? If it is in a field like counseling that isn’t possible of course, but if it is an internship for business then I have seen this sort of thing done cooperatively with the workplace i.e. doing a special project different from day to day work there that benefits the workplace and the program goals.

      Otherwise pushing for an evening placement harder?

      1. Eep.*

        Unfortunately, social work is closer to counseling than to business, so that’s not viable. That was my first thought, but there is actually an outline of specific skills we need to learn and/or demonstrate in a placement which wouldn’t be doable in my current organization, and because of that outline they actually place us themselves (we get two or three choices, but they generate all of them).

        I would push harder for an evening placement if any existed, but after checking with the department there simply aren’t any available (and I was given a very stern, hard “no” on that front when I asked about it, which to me means the expectation on their end appears to always have been for people in placements not to work. I’m not sure what planet they’re from, but I want to move there).

  166. CJ*

    I am currently job searching and I am baffled by how to use my network to find a job (I was with the same company for 15 years and in college prior to that so my job searching skills are rusty at best). I know that most jobs are filled by networking, but I am in a very narrow field- I’ve never met anyone that does what I do besides my colleagues, and nobody I know knows anyone in my field besides myself. It’s a vicious circle, and I’m not sure how to get out of it other than to do what previous colleagues have done and switch careers. The problem is I love what I do and I would rather not go down that road. Any advice?

    1. The IT Manager*

      How do you know that most jobs are field by networking? I don’t think that’s exactly true. Not that you shouldn’t try networking, but certainly don’t change careers because you don’t have a network. Find out where the jobs in your field are advertised and start looking. Maybe try connecting to people in your field on LinkedIn

      1. CJ*

        I’ve read that anywhere from 70-85% of jobs are filled these days by networking. That’s a daunting figure given how narrow my field is. I’ve been applying to jobs posted online and gotten some interviews but they haven’t resulted in an offer. I will give LinkedIn a try. Thanks for the suggestion!

        1. Amelia*

          Have you checked to see if that statistic is actually true? There are lots of myths out there about job hunting, you cannot rely on everything you read to be good advice.

          Even if it is true, it may not apply in your field.

          1. Felicia*

            This. Just because you read it, doesn’t mean it’s true. I’ve heard similar statistics, but me , and everyone I know, have gotten all our jobs by seeing them online and applying for them, without knowing anyone there, and we just hired a new person at my work who just applied for it online, and we didn’t have any previous connection to her. So I always think it must not be that true.

            1. Sara*

              Agreed. Off-hand, I can only think of one person I know who got her job through networking, and while I certainly can’t claim that my field or the people I know in it are representative of all working humans in all fields of work, I approach claims about the importance of getting a job through one’s network with a healthy degree of skepticism. I have gotten every paying job I’ve ever had (and most of my volunteer gigs, as well) by finding a job posting and applying for it.

              In my own case, I’d actually say I’ve had less luck with employers who are “in” my network than those with which I have no prior connection. I couldn’t even get to the interview stage at a place I interned, for example, and I was unsuccessful in getting interviews for openings in different departments at my old employer.

    2. voluptuousfire*

      I think that 70-85% jobs are obtained through networking statistic comes from the same place that the articles that harp on magical keyword searches that will get you in the door.

      1. CJ*

        LOL. The 70% comes from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. It’s been mentioned in career articles written for Forbes, ABC News, NPR, etc. Other career articles have cited 80% or 85%, although I’m not sure where they are getting those figures from. The 70% is daunting enough without pushing it to 80% or 85%.

  167. voluptuousfire*

    Does anyone seem to interview a lot and get to the final round but always seems to get knocked out by another candidate? I’ve been in this position more than I can count and if I do get feedback, it’s usually positive. I’ve been told I present and interview well but they went with another candidate who had some experience I lacked or didn’t have enough of or I impressed them and they would be happy to refer me to colleagues, etc. It’s definitely not my references because I don’t get to that point.

    I’ve wracked my brain, trying to figure out what the issue(s) that are the cause for me not being able to pull the trigger for a job offer and I’ve not really come up with anything. It’s frustrating as hell.

    1. schnapps*

      I don’t have any advice, but I do have commiseration. I call this “bridesmaid syndrome” and have been through that many, many times (several times this year – my area opens up in certain cycles and this year happens to be one of those cycles – the problem is, if I don’t move on now, the next great chance will be about 3.5 years from now). When I ask for feedback, I get a response along the lines of, “You interview well! Your answers were great! If I had a second position it would be yours! Don’t worry – It’ll happen!”

  168. Cait*

    I realize I’m late to this party, but I’m hoping there are still people reading from the bottom :). I could use some advice about a situation at work.

    Last week, I started a batch of white chocolate teapots at the end of my shift. I told the person on the next shift, Jane, that they would be done in a few hours and then she could box them up. The next time I worked, the warehouse told me that my batch of white chocolate teapots was bad and I’d have to make them over again. I wanted to see what went wrong, so I checked the log on the dark chocolate teapot machine I had used, and found that my batch had been cancelled right after I left, while the machine was still warming up. I also noticed that right after my batch was cancelled on the dark chocolate teapot machine, a batch of white chocolate teapots was started on the milk chocolate teapot machine and then cancelled about halfway through.

    Based on what I found and what I know about Jane, I’m about 95% sure I know what happened. We only started making white chocolate teapots a couple of months ago, and we don’t make them very often. When we started making them, I was assigned to figure out the best way to make them with our existing chocolate machines, and through trial and error, I found that it would only work on the dark chocolate machine, using some special settings. The boss sent an e-mail with this information, but Jane probably forgot (and she hadn’t made any white chocolate teapots yet). She thinks she knows everything about the teapot machines, so when she saw that I started the white chocolate teapots in the dark chocolate teapot machine, she probably freaked out, thinking that putting white chocolate in the dark chocolate machine would ruin it, and cancelled my batch. Then she started it on the milk chocolate teapot machine, and when she checked on it in the middle of the batch, saw that they were totally messed up, so she cancelled the batch and threw out the rest of the white chocolate. Then she told the warehouse the white chocolate teapots were messed up and sent them some to see why they couldn’t be shipped like that.

    I’m annoyed about it because first of all, I know what I’m doing and my teapots would have turned out fine if she had just let the batch finish. Second, when she saw they were messed up, she didn’t even try to fix things (say, by asking the boss for guidance so she could start a new batch correctly). Third, she threw out the rest of the white chocolate, which I could have used to make half a new batch if she had left it alone. Fourth, other people don’t know the whole story, so now it looks like I’m the one who screwed up the teapots. Finally, I had to redo all the work I did in the first place to make a new batch.

    I’d really like to give her an earful about how badly she screwed me over, but that probably wouldn’t be constructive. I know Alison is a big proponent of being direct with people, but I am having a hard time thinking of a good way to address this with Jane without being too mean. I’m also not sure if talking to her about it would do any good at all, because the damage is done and I already fixed it by making a new batch, so now there’s really nothing she can do to make up for what she did. Any suggestions?

    1. Beezus*

      “Hey, I wanted to talk to you about that batch of white chocolate teapots you finished up for me the other day. I saw you cancelled the batch and restarted them in the other machine.” (Let her interject her story here about how that went.) “Yeah, we found out a couple of months ago that they have to be run in the dark chocolate machine – Boss sent out an email about it, but it was a while ago. I knew you hadn’t had a chance to run them yet and I figured you didn’t realize, so I wanted to let you know.”

      Then maybe touch base with Darren and let him know what the deal was. I generally don’t bother clarifying whose-fault-something-was outside my own team unless I have a very specific reason for doing so. I also wouldn’t give her a guilt trip about the wasted raw material – I assume she thought the batch was bad because there was something wrong with it?

      1. Cait*

        Thanks for the reply (and for reading my long story)! I don’t really care about the wasted material per se, because it is pretty cheap, but it takes some time to prepare and we are all very busy and don’t have the time to redo work. I think she assumed that I mixed up the white chocolate incorrectly or maybe just got a bad box, so that’s why she threw it out. That would be fine if she had made another batch herself, and in that case, I would have just figured she learned her lesson the hard way and maybe next time she’d think twice about messing with something I started. But she messed with my work, screwed it up, and suffered no consequences because I’m the one who had to redo it — and that’s why I feel compelled to say something.

        I feel like it might look kind of petty to point out that she’s the one who screwed it up, because nobody’s mad at me about it or anything. Sometimes a batch just doesn’t come out right and it’s nobody’s fault, so as long as it’s caught before it gets packaged, it’s not a big deal (unless there’s a pattern that indicates it’s your technique and not a random fluke).

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I hate saying this…. but… it’s been my “luck” that leaving something for someone else to finish will not go well for me. Ever.

      Whatever direction you go with- telling her or not telling her- please consider not leaving stuff that is off the beaten path for someone else to complete. I hate saying that, because everyone should be able to jump in and finish. But this so very seldom works out.

      One time I was doing a new-to-us item. I had vacation time, so I left samples all over. I labeled the samples. I told other people. I wrote a note and left it on my desk. You can probably see what is coming here- MAJOR screw up and it was my fault even though I was not there. Even after I cleared things up with the boss, the person responsible for the screw up threatened me.

      Moral of the story- try not to leave unusual tasks partially completed and tell someone to follow up. I used stories similar to that to tell the boss, “I will start that first thing in the morning so I can see it through to completion personally.”

      1. Cait*

        Yeah, I usually try not to leave things half-done, but there are some situations where it can’t really be avoided (here, we have so many teapots to make on the dark chocolate machine that we pretty much have to run batches back to back in order to keep up), and in those cases, I try to leave as little as possible for the next shift to do. In this case, for example, there was no reason for Jane to even look at the teapot machine except maybe to see how long before the batch was done. I don’t think anyone else in the department would have touched a batch someone else started, but Jane just couldn’t resist the opportunity to prove she knows best.

  169. msmanager*

    Nuts. I missed open thread and I really needed it this week. Well, on the off chance that anyone is still reading this far, here’s my situation:

    When I started at my job a little over a year ago, only one person in the office, let’s call her Margery, really made an effort to befriend me. (After a few months, the rest of the group warmed up to me and it turned out that I’d come in at the tail end of a high-turnover spate, and they were just waiting to see if I’d stick around before getting to know me. )

    Anyway, Margery and I have adjoining cubicles and usually eat lunch together. We are seend as good friends by the rest of the office. However, I’ve also come to realize that Margery is not well perceived by upper management due to her extremely negative attitude about pretty much everything work-related: her workload, her clients and assignments, her commute, coworkers she feels aren’t pulling their weight or are getting special treatment. She was turned down for a promotion a few months ago and is still very angry about it.

    Because I like many other things about her, I try to tune out the complaining, or change the subject. I don’t want to abandon our friendship but I don’t want my own chances of moving forward to be held back because I’m seen as best pals with the office grump. Advice?

    1. fposte*

      Expand your circle. Don’t dump Margery, but don’t only hang with Margery. Have lunch with other people sometimes, either with Margery or without her.

      She may not like it much–you were kind of her life raft, I think–but she also probably doesn’t want to lose you by making a big thing out of it. And maybe you can broaden her out a little bit by mixing her with other people and seeing that you and they don’t talk much about how hard done by you are.

    2. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      What fposte said and, it’s important.

      Being visible BFFs with the office complainer will, with near certainty, hold you back.

    3. Artemesia*

      Get proactive. Start inviting others to lunch with you. Have errands at lunch time. Break up the twosome. It is common for the office problem to befriend newbies — they are lonely and ostracized, they are looking to stir up trouble whatever. Don’t do anything dramatic just make sure you are not always together and that you dn’t get together to go to off site meetings or otherwise appear to be BFF. Volunteer for committees or whatever that are not associated with her.

      1. msmanager*

        Thanks all. I’ve been asked to help mentor a new team member next week and I think that will provide a graceful exit – i.e. “I need to make sure New Hire gets acquainted with everyone!”

        I feel badly for Margery, because she’s good at what she does, and would really thrive if she weren’t so negative. She confided to me once that she’d been counseled about her attitude, but her feeling seems to be “give me what I want and my attitude will improve” instead of the other way around.

        Anyway, I will start detaching next week.

  170. Chickaletta*

    Just started my new job this week and it’s going great except one thing: the tv is on all the time and it’s driving me crazy!

    For some reason, the boss hung a large tv in the front room which I share with the office manager. A couple other employees have tv’s hanging in their offices too. Weird, but it’s a small company with some nice perks so I figure this just goes along with that.

    For the first few days, the office manager, who keeps the remote at her desk, kept it on a music station. It wasn’t too bad because it was like background noise. However, for the past two days the boss has been out of the office so the office manager decided it would be great to watch movies instead! I kid you not. The first day was a Back to the Future marathon and today was Friends reruns. All. Day. Long. I tried to politely joke that it was hard to get work done with the tv on, and when I came in this morning I told her that I didn’t want to watch anything. But she didn’t get the hint. She gets in the office before me so the tv was already on when I got there.

    It’s a very small office so getting along with everyone is going to be important. I don’t want to come across as the fuddy-duddy because I’m not. But there are times when it was really hard to focus, it’s hard to take phone calls, it looks extremely unprofessional (nobody else in the office uses their tv like this), and of course it’s probably not what the boss intended (otherwise why would she do it only when he’s gone?). As a brand new person in the office, what would you do?

    1. W*

      Hmm – I mean I’d try and get there earlier than her and just be like I’ve never has a TV in my office before – what’s the policy at Teapot Central about this?
      And then – it was fun to have the movies on before but I found it distracting – I can so easily get sucked into those shows – I’d prefer us having music on like before. Alternatively check up on other office mates and see how they deal with their TVs. It does seem a weird policy unless you’re in an industry that requires you watch certain things.

    2. Mephyle*

      Dispense with the polite jokes and hints, and say what you need. Invoke the Grovel – blame it on a combination of your weird idiosyncrasies and being new – that you can’t get into “learning” your tasks when there are such entertaining TV shows on.

  171. gnarlington*

    Well, I’m extremely late to this open thread, so most likely no one’s reading, but I needed somewhere to air my frustrations. About a month ago I was hired part time for a nonprofit organization that I’ve been volunteering/freelancing with for more than a year. So far I haven’t had any conversation with my manager about goals, projects, or anything really, except for our initial talk where we discussed my schedule and the two main projects I should focus on every month. Today, while discussing an advocacy/anti-stigma campaign I’ve had to pioneer myself (which is a huge reason why they hired me, I’m sure—their communications is, well, nonexistent to be honest) with some coworkers, they made a comment that frustrated me… and opened my eyes. I’m disillusioned; the culture here is so cavalier and nonchalant that it makes me question what we’re doing. What is the purpose? We should just sit in a room and flail our arms about.

    I knew some of that going in, and it was part of why I thought it would be good to take the job. I want to pioneer this kind of stuff! But I worry that I’m focusing so much effort where no one cares as passionately as I do so nothing will get done, or that I’m too eager/trying too hard and that’s off-putting to everyone else and I’ll burn out.

    Anyway, thank you for listening, the ether of the Internet.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Keep your focus on your boss. (I am hoping the boss is okay.) I have worked for NPs where doing the least amount to get by was the standard. That is nothing I can relate to, at all. So I focused on the boss and the work itself. You may find more people like yourself as you go along. Yeah, if I listened to my coworkers too much, I would have had difficulty keeping the job as long as I did.

      1. gnarlington*

        It’s a small NPO. Only about 10 of us in the office. The role was created for me because they badly need a digital media person, and I work closely with one coworker on projects like these.

        But I do appreciate this advice. I think I could do great things and will just have to not let the culture affect me, even if that’ll be difficult to get the technicalities of projects done.

  172. LD*

    Hi! Not sure if anyone will read down this far but…

    My manager and I don’t seem to communicate very well, and I’m not sure how to improve that. Most of the time I talk to my team lead and other coworkers rather than her but it seems to be a pattern. It’s not that her first language isn’t English (or not only that, several of my coworkers also speak English as their second language and I have no issues communicating with them). It’s that she seems to interpret what I say in the most negative way possible. Also, I have trouble understanding what she means sometimes and she’s kind of intimidating (and always very busy), or I’d ask more questions.

    For example, I was having something reviewed by multiple people before it was sent to someone higher up. I’d had it checked by someone over in communications when I got an email asking if we’d already had it reviewed by “Steve” (who I thought might also be in communications but wasn’t sure, I’m pretty new). I asked her about it, just to double check, and her response was along the lines of “It would be completely redundant to have Steve check it too [That’s silly/stupid of you to ask].”

    I mean, I though it might be, but I wanted to check that their wasn’t some other reason to have Steve check it to. I have multiple other examples of similar situations. It just seems to keep happening and it’s kind of frustrating, if anyone has any advice…

    1. fposte*

      What she actually said isn’t that horrible, so maybe one thing you can do is stop letting your mind create stuff like the bracketed info. (Who said you should check with Steve, by the way? Is that somebody you need to listen to, and do you know if your manager thinks so? I could see being slightly irritated with the query if it was a random co-worker who had little experience with the project who prompted you to ask me about this.)

      Do you know what she thinks of your work generally? If she’s overall pleased with what you do, I’d consider her to be direct and factual and stop worrying about the absence of padding. Right now what you seem to be describing isn’t unclear communication but a communication style that you’re reading as hostile, and one option would be to stop reading it that way.

      1. LD*

        She (my manager) was the one who emailed us about checking with Steve. Thank you- That’s really helpful- I seem to be very good at that (letting my mind create problems that aren’t there). It’s my first real job, which probably doesn’t help with my perspective on things. I think she’s happy with my work (or at least I know my team lead is, who’s the one who updates my manager on that).

    2. Not So NewReader*

      The example here could have also meant, “don’t worry about it, not a biggie”.

      Try to figure out if she talks to everyone that way. I bet she does. I tend to read into stuff, also. One thing I have done is force myself to look at what was said. In your example here, I would tell myself that she did not raise her voice, she did not cuss and she said nothing further on the matter. In her mind the matter is probably over, forgotten.

      I supervised in a verrrry busy place. If I gave a one sentence answer like that, it meant “this is a non-issue, let’s move to the next thing”. When busy people tell you something, take it at face value. Don’t add more to it in your mind’s eye because there is nothing more to it. If there was more she probably would say so.

      If you remain unconvinced try talking to your direct supervisor. Just tell her that you are concerned that Boss might be upset with you from time to time. Ask her if she has some tips for dealing with Boss.

  173. just another grump*

    I’ve been pushing for my role to include more programming work for the past year, with slow progress, and just as things look like they might start improving, with a possible chance to write my own internal tool for the company, I’ve lost all motivation. I feel like most opportunities like this have been mirages – “oh, you’ll have a chance to write more code in April. Oh wait, we meant June,” but this one might be different because the intern who’s done most of this project is leaving and there may not be anyone but me to take over. How do I get over my learned helplessness and take full advantage of opportunities that might come up while I’m still here?

    I probably still want to leave within the next month or so, either to work somewhere else if this hired.com round works out or to study programming on my own. But I don’t want to waste the time I’m still here, and I don’t want to leave everyone with the impression that I’m lazy and unmotivated.

    It doesn’t help that I’ve recently missed almost two weeks of work to deal with a personal crisis that I don’t want to explain to my boss beyond that there was an emergency. (I was taking care of my partner, who was seriously ill and needed constant supervision at home, and even if I hadn’t been needed there I was under too much stress to actually get my job done – it requires very close attention to detail, and when I’m sleeping 3 hours a night and barely able to eat I’m worse than useless.) HR knows the full situation and suggested I go on unpaid leave – I was ready to quit right then because I Could Not Deal – so they presumably agree it was serious enough to take the time off. But after I returned my boss referred to my leave as a “vacation” and my ability to read between the lines isn’t good enough to tell whether this was a joke or a real indicator that he thinks my reason can’t have been valid and maybe I was interviewing elsewhere.

  174. Gareth Keenan Investigates*

    Has anyone had luck negotiating their way out of a grant-funded contract position? The org I work for wants to hire me on as permanent staff (yay!) and is willing to offer paid family leave, a great plus bc I’m expecting a baby next month. The setback is that I’m still under contract with a grantor for a one year position, set to end in late Sept. The contract is with the third party grantor, not the org, and their rules are a bit…difficult. I’m technically supposed to work a specific number of hours before I can be released but I’m not sure how possible that is with the pregnancy and delivery. (Current position comes with only unpaid leave that would require an extension of my contract.) Sounds like the org wants me to start the new position as soon as possible, and is willing to extend the leave right away, but none of that matters if I’m stuck in my current contract. Just wondering how likely it is that this can all work out.

  175. Fuming*

    I work in a nonprofit legal service provider. I am one of two attorneys in my unit who are supervised by our boss. I entered the job with more years of experience and started before my colleague, who is a man. In addition, my colleague and I have the same title but have a drastically different workload–I have much more responsibilities than he does. He mainly does “research”, while I research, am in court on actual cases (that I researched) and I also lead trainings. A few months back, my boss on her own acknowledged that my colleague and I have a different workload, so she transferred one of my cases to him. However, she wanted me to stay on the case and take some responsibilities so as to “train” my colleague. (So, it wasn’t *really* about shifting the workload, this was more about me training someone and having them shadow me). My colleague gets to take more interesting and complex cases because he is taking less cases than I am. To be more specific, the higher the caseload, the less complex cases you can practically take because they take more of your time–so I have a huge quantity of cases of medium difficulty (around 15) while my colleague has a very small caseload (like literally of 2 cases that are complex). Thinking on this workload imbalance, I recently asked my boss about promotion opportunities (I never mentioned any imbalance, I just focused on MY work and my contributions during the conversation) and she gave me a wishy washy answer (“Oh, I foresee changes to the unit in the next few years and can revisit this conversation at some time in the future”). Then in the midst of that conversation, she said that “at that time, the PEOPLE who are most senior here will be considered for promotion”. The way she said it signaled to me that she would actually promote my colleague and I (since we would be the most senior people in a few years) at the same time even though I have more experience and a higher workload. I am FUMING inside, but trying to stay calm and do my job.

    More importantly, there is a huge, complex case that we should BOTH be one, but it appears my boss has only put my male colleague on it. I questioned her about it–she said oh sure, I will be on that case too. Now that the case itself has commenced, ONLY MY MALE COLLEAGUE IS ON IT and my boss acts like nothing happened. It wasn’t just a slip up–my boss lies all of the time and is very wishy washy. It seems to me that my colleague and I are treated differently (in a nonprofit–go figure) and while my boss dumps and piles work on me, she is focused on “molding and training” my colleague by giving him less work and more interesting cases. I am even more resentful because my boss is a woman, she knew my male colleague before and we work in “social justice”. Objectively, my colleague is smart but not insanely smart that a boss should treat him like the brilliant prodigy. I’m so resentful of my boss. How should I handle the situation? Thanks.

    1. Ms Information*

      I had a similar situation and several years later still think about what I might have done differently! I took on major responsibilities with a clear verbal understanding that there would be an end date and a reassignment of my duties. This was with a boss who was mercurial but whom I respected and trusted. Well I do a bang up job and when the 2 year time had elapsed I said I was looking forward to discussing a transition plan and a reassignment. Boss took great umbrage and refused to discuss , denied the original understanding – and I was then in her bad books. In retrospect, I wish I had made sure to get the original agreement in writing and to deal with the whole thing as a formal agreement rather than a handshake. It wouldn’t have changed the outcome – me in bad books – but it might have reduced my emotions of betrayal, disappointment, and rage. :) I felt I’d given away my power. Sooo, I think you need to figure out what steps take back your power; an updated resume, an actual job search, a very clear personal understanding of what this job will and won’t give you, whatever makes sense for you. Your boss has shown whom she is… Weirdly, my situation was also a female boss favoring male employees. I also found the book Fire Your Boss cathartic!

      1. Fuming*

        Thank you Ms. Information. Yea–I don’t know–she greatly respects my male colleague, which infuriates me because he’s on the immature side and while he does a decent job, it’s not like he’s brilliant or does a bang up job. It makes me angry—especially because my boss strikes me as a fraud and phony– everyone greatly respects my boss because she’s good at creating and keeping a persona (like for example, any assignments which relate to her public persona like a public conference or panel, she’ll actually do work so she can put on a good face and seem like she;s competent in but the everyday management and supervision and guidance of employees–she sucks shitty ass!). Plus, did I mention this is SOCIAL JUSTICE WORK–how can you be such a female chauvinist when you’re a so-called leader in a social justice organization!!! I’ve been job searching.

        1. Gareth Keenan Investigates*

          I will say that I see a shocking amount of poor behavior and disrespect at legal service orgs. Not just lack of professionalism but behavior that’s discriminatory or unethical to the point of being illegal. I’m starting to think that many attorneys end up in public interest because they need jobs and somehow miss the whole mission behind our work.

          1. Fuming*

            Yes you are right Gareth. The sad part is this whole ordeal has made me realize how difficult it is t sue and prove discrimination….and also that sometimes the decision to sue isn’t worth it because it reflects poorly on you (as in future employers, regardless of if you were right or not) will be wary of hiring you. I really resent my boss–what a fraud.

  176. MsChanandlerBong*

    I’m way late to this, so I’ll post next week if I don’t get an answer, but I have a question about a certification.

    I’m working through Hubspot’s inbound marketing certification right now. I want to do the one offered by the Content Marketing Institute, but it’s $1,000, and I would have to pay for it myself because I am a freelance writer with my own business. Because the Hubspot course is free, is it even worth putting in my LinkedIn profile or mentioning on my resume? It is really in-depth, but I am thinking some people might not put any stock in it because you don’t have to pay for it.

    A little background on why I am working through the certification: As I said, I am a freelance writer, but I am finding that a lot of people don’t want to pay very much for “just” a writer. I want to re-brand myself as a digital marketing specialist or content marketing specialist, so I am spending my free time doing the Hubspot certification, reading books on content marketing, and working with new clients who have me doing a broader range of tasks so I can learn new skills (e.g. I’m working with a marketing agency to do social media management for their clients). So I won’t be using the certification to get a traditional job, but to enhance my knowledge and make myself more marketable as a freelancer.

    1. BRR*

      I’m not big on certifications. I don’t think a certification is going to make you more appealing. Your track record will be what helps you get work. I am certainly not an expert so somebody smarter might give you a better response but I think you’re going to have to start doing smaller marketing tasks and work your way up.

    3. Cruciatus*

      Thanks, everyone! I didn’t think so but just wanted to confirm before I tear my house apart looking for my SS card that I’m sure I put “somewhere safe”. And it is. Safe, even from myself.

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