open thread – November 6, 2015

by Alison Green on November 6, 2015

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

{ 1,226 comments }

{ 1,226 comments… read them below }

  1. ACA*

    This morning someone forwarded a phishing email to the entire employee listserve and asked “Hey is this actually from [company]?” And now my inbox is flooded by emails all saying variations of “Delete it, it’s spam” and/or “Stop replying all!” It is glorious. (My favorite response: “Wait, does that mean I shouldn’t have given my department budget code to that Nigerian prince?”)

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      Ugh. And then people “reply to all” to say “STOP REPLYING TO ALL!!1!!”. I just stay out of it.

      1. Hlyssande*

        The last time that happened it devolved into amazing image memes. This in a very conservative industrial company. I was vastly pleased.

          1. Natalie*

            It’s fabulous! It will send all subsequent replies directly to the trash without you getting a notification or (1) in your inbox.

      3. Mallory Janis Ian*

        I kind of want to reply to all saying, “The people who reply to all to say ‘Stop replying to all’ are worse than the original people who replied to all. Stop replying ‘Stop replying to all’ to all. Thank you.”

    2. AnotherAlison*

      We had one of these a while back. It’s super easy to set up a rule to delete that will catch 99% of these. If it bugs you that much, set up a rule and move on.

      1. Folklorist*

        A couple of months ago, I wrote something on an Open Thread that I wanted to monitor. I hit the “Notify me of follow-up comments by email” box at the bottom of the comments. Turns out it emails you EVERY TIME someone comments on the post–on an Open Thread. All 1200+ comments.

        That was the best use of Outlook Rules I’ve ever made!

        1. coyote_fan*

          It would be nice if the Notify me would only notify you of updates on the specific thread you commented on/request a follow-up. I have never followed up on anything via email since the first time I received 300 emails.

        3. Minion*

          I did that on a particularly lively discussion and my inbox was flooded for days afterward. I was really hoping that eventually we can just see replies to our specific comments, but that might mean we’d need to sign in to the site or something like that. Now, I just wade through the comments and hope I can find mine to read any replies.

        4. beachlover*

          Samething here! I would love it if the notify only sent you replies to the thread you commented on.

        1. ACA*

          So much fun! You can tell when a new email comes in because everyone in my office starts laughing at the same time.

    3. Amber Rose*

      Once upon a time, a hack/bug/whatever sent a spam email to everyone and locked all of us into reply all.

      Cue chaos. Utter chaos. I had 15,000 emails by the end of the day and access to way more information than I had clearance for.

      1. themmases*

        I have never been quite brave enough to do this and am so jealous of my partner who does sometimes.

        Luckily I get enough entertainment out of just thinking about it! I am a “quietly create an inbox rule” person.

      2. afiendishthingy*

        I’ve been so tempted to do this to an annoying VP who sends the entire department 17 updated versions of an Excel document that has NO BEARING on my work, rather than just saving the damn thing in the shared drive. Argh. (one of my coworkers tried to do this tactfully, by pointing out that it only applied to Teapot Coordinators and not Teapot Supervisors, but the VP replied that she would have THOUGHT the supervisors would want to be supportive of the coordinators. Um. We still get the damn emails. I bet my coworker gets double for her sins.)

    5. Dictionary Attack*

      Two decades ago, in the heyday of PINE, I was indirectly responsible for spamming one of my favorite authors on just this sort of chain. He sent at least three emails telling us all to stop replying to all, followed by a final message: “You have all been added to my killfile.”

      The author died prematurely several years later. I wish I’d saved that email.

    6. MaryMary*

      Something similar happened at OldJob (a very large, multinational company) over the 4th of July weekend. The initial company-wide email was sent by someone in Asia, and coworkers across the world responded while the US folks were having barbeques and watching fireworks. I unplugged over the holiday and came back to 900 emails in my inbox on Monday morning. THEN I received a couple hundred more emails throughout the day as the Americans began their round of “stop replying to all/I believe you sent this to me in error”

    7. Mike C.*

      I love bouncing messages back to the sender and informing them that you’re an “unintended recipient” according to those long and very silly instructions you sometimes see at the bottom of official emails.

      If you get a lot of folks to do this, it’s absolutely hilarious.

      1. Mike C.*

        More seriously, here at work an HR rep will remind everyone that you can get written up for “misuse of company resources”. This works until second or third shift hits or someone off site gets into work, then it starts all over again.

        We’re talking mailing lists of tens of thousands here, so it’s really fun.

    8. Pumpkins and candy corn*

      Oh my gosh…something very similar happened at my workplace yesterday. It resulted in almost 200 emails in my inbox this morning. Annoying as it was, the replies were hilarious!

    9. Key to the West*

      Before I joined my company, a similar situation happened here. To every company email account. Of which there are about 25,000. You can imagine how that panned out!

    10. coffee powerrrd*

      This happened to the State of CA in 2010. Someone from the Governor’s office sent an e-mail to ~50,000 employees without a BCC and by the time a few hours had passed, hundreds of new friends were made!! I don’t think anyone from the G.O. responded for about 6-7 hours and the whole thing ended up lasting for about 2 days as people randomly checked their inbox and decided it was the time to have some fun by replying to all :). (this was during serious budget crisis where lots of people were getting laid off, so it was pretty welcomed and refreshing, actually, haha)

  2. Anomnomnom*

    I’ve been feeling really burnt out at my job. I’m in sales and have been for 6 years. I’m really tired of the grind that comes with this job and when I think of doing this for even another 6 months, I feel exhausted. I find myself stressed all the time about quota and the next sale.

    I want to find a job that uses the great skills I’ve learned from doing sales so that I’m not just starting from scratch. Any advice? Have any of you transitioned out of sales into something related?

    Thank you in advance!

        2. Dawn*

          You could move to IT consulting since you already know a ton about the product(s) because you’ve had to sell them for so many years.

          1. Anomnomnom*

            Can you describe that more? I want to clarify that I’m not technically knowledgeable. I know enough to get by on selling the offerings but am not sure how that would translate into consulting.

            What can I consult on, essentially?

            1. WorkingMom*

              Maybe think about who your customers are. Would you be qualified to do the work of those customers? Think about other roles that you interact with on a regular basis – do any of those roles look appealing to you? Do you have the skills do those roles? Maybe start there and see what you come up with?

    2. AFT123*

      Sales Engineer, Pre-Sales, Sales Operations, Project Management – those are all positions that typically utilize sales skills but don’t have a quota attached. PM doesn’t seem like it would be at first, but working through a Project is very similar to an IT sales cycle, especially when you’re experience with implementation as well.

      1. Anomnomnom*

        Thank you! How technical do I have to be for a sales engineer position? I know enough to get by selling but still rely on technical people if it’s a very deep question.

        1. AFT123*

          Depends on the organization, for sure. Search by that job title though and check the descriptions for a better idea of what it means at that org. Example – I’m speaking with a company right now where an SE is trained heavily on the technical aspect, but needs to already have the presentation skills to present value-based demos.

        2. AFT123*

          If you’re super detail oriented and enjoy more of the administrative sales tasks, def. look into Sales Operations (Sales Ops) positions. A lot of these positions are centered around reporting and data compilation, which some people are awesome at and love. I’ve also seen people in Sales go into Overlay or Product roles, which could be enjoyable as well, however my experience is that you’d probably take a pay cut with these positions. Another semi-sales role is Partner or Channel management, although in recent years, I’ve seen the pressure on these folks rise and become quota’d.

    3. NotASalesperson*

      Have you looked into recruitment of IT professionals? IT recruiters are in relatively high demand at the moment and tend to need a very good sales personality. It would also require interviewing skills, but I would imagine that a lot of the sales skills would translate.

      1. AFT123*

        This is a good suggestion – recruiting! Be aware though, most all recruiting firm positions have some type of quota and can be high pressure as well. House recruiters might be a bit more relaxed.

    4. Mike C.*

      In the meantime, can you take a vacation? That’s going to help you in the short term and give you some breathing room to to start your new search.

    5. Ops Analyst*

      I’m going to slightly echo the Sales Operations suggestions, only with a twist. You could look into Sales Enablement – which is basically supporting the sales org with training, content, and analytics that make it easier for them to do their jobs.

      I’m a Sales Operations Analyst for a global software company and while a portion of my job does include data, reporting and administrative tasks as mentioned above, a much larger portion of my job (about 80%) is enablement. I create quick reference guides, write technical content, create internal communications, inform on process changes and improvements, and train employees. I did not have a heavy technical background (just slightly above average) going into this and it has not been a problem. I have an education and training background, but your background would also work for this kind of position, probably more so.

      There are also other people in my org who have moved from sales positions to roles in sales operations, PM rolls, and other areas that are still slightly sales but not exactly the same as being out in the field (more like managing sales people and accounts or determining the kind of work needed to fulfill the needs of the customer). Take a look at some open positions at large IT companies and see what is out there and you’ll get a better idea of what your skills could transfer to.

    6. Natasha*

      How about product testing? Ie, documenting bugs and offering feedback on new features. I think in IT that is often called Test Engineer or QA.

    7. Amanda*

      Lots of IT firms have client management roles that are not sales. Essentially, hand holding new clients through implementation, being the internal go-to for that client, representing their interests and being the point of communications. Lots of the same skills, none of the quotas!

    8. Poplar Bennie*

      Fundraising involves a lot of the same kinds of skills, if you’re interested in working in nonprofits or politics.

    9. Alexa*

      Hospitality uses a lot of the same skill set! There are definitely some hospitality positions in the tech industry, if you work for a company or organization that hosts a lot of industry events.

  3. BRR*

    My question is about the best time/ best way to ask to telecommute for one day. I started a new job in mid-October. The commute is over an hour each way. The organization is very telecommuting friendly, most people work from home Mondays and Fridays and you can work from home other days with your manager’s approval. On the day before Thanksgiving, the office is closing early and I’m traveling that evening. I would like to ask to work from home that day so I don’t have to spend an additional 3.5 hours traveling especially when the office is opened shorter than usual. My job can easily be done from home and I’ve been really excelling so far with big projects. Should I ask sooner or closer to the actual day? Or should I not rock the boat so new into a position? My manager is a reasonable /sensible/intelligent person.

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      If the company strongly supports teleworking, I’d say ask, and ask now! That day it makes particular sense for you to telework; after all, wasting your time will make you less productive in the long run, even if the waste is off the clock.

    2. J.B.*

      For one day with the openness your company seems to show, go ahead and ask. Asking for a regular telecommuting day should maybe wait about but the day before Thanksgiving? It’ll be dead!

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I would ask now. I would bet that working from home the day before Thanksgiving is pretty normal for that office. I also don’t think it’s a “too soon” thing, because in most professional situations where telecommuting is pretty normal, that’s a very reasonable request! It’s not just a day working from home, it’s that specific day that makes total sense.

      In your place, I would say to your boss, “I’m trying to plan my Thanksgiving travel, and I’m wondering if I could possibly work from home on the Wednesday before? I totally understand if it’s not do-able” or something like that.

      Also: so glad to hear the new gig is going well!

    4. LBK*

      Given that your office is so relaxed about WFH, I would bring it up now and do it nonchalantly, almost more like asking for confirmation than permission: “Hey, just a heads up that I was planning to work from home the day before Thanksgiving. Let me know if you need me in the office instead.”

      1. CMT*

        I don’t think I would do it this way. BRR *just* started this job and I don’t think has telecommuted at all yet, so I think a much better tactic would be to ask. It sounds like the answer will almost certainly be yes.

        1. LBK*

          Oh, oops, I missed that she just started 2 weeks ago. I think it would be fine to do it after a couple months but I agree that’s too soon. Disregard!

        2. BRR*

          Yeah, because I’m new I’m going to ask and not just say I’m doing it. After some time here that’s how it works here though. The freedom that people just announce their schedules makes me uncomfortable haha.

          1. INFJ*

            I can totally relate! I just started this year at a place that has a similar WFH standard to yours. In addition, people don’t “ask” for time off, they just block out the days on the department calendar and inform their boss via email. I was all, “Whaaaaa….? I don’t have to fill out a form and wait for my boss to sign it to get a day off?!” My boss doesn’t even keep track of my PTO days. (I’m salaried, exempt.) Hooray! For once I get to be treated like an adult!

      2. Oryx*

        If they need manager’s approval I wouldn’t suggest phrasing it this way. Especially if they are new and it’s the first time they are hoping to WFH

        1. LBK*

          This is how I used to ask my manager for WFH approval and it worked well. It’s basically the same way I’d ask for vacation days.

    5. Hillary*

      Last week I asked my new boss (at a new company) “so, what does the day before thanksgiving look like here?” It’s a completely reasonable question to ask three weeks before the day. Sheesh, I need to get organized.

      I’d probably phrase your request more neutrally/casually and give them an out since it’s so new. If you’re doing well I certainly wouldn’t say no.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I was thinking of coming at it from the side, also. Something like, “Boss, if a newbie asks for x time to wfh before TG, is that frowned upon, or is that considered a normal/acceptable request?” Given that you say your boss is a thinking/sincere person, I would try this method.
        If you make it clear that the boss’ preferences are what you will do, I think you will make out well here.

  4. YourUnfriendlyPhlebotomist*

    Boy do I have a story for ya’ll!
    For year I have told my boss that the flow of patients at this health center is just asking for an error to be made. Patients are coming from all directions, there is no organization. Just last Wednesday I told her again that the problems are getting worse. Well… yesterday it happened. I made a BIG mistake. No one’s health was jeopardized but patient A was given patient B’s lab slip to go to the hospital to have the tests done because they were special and I can’t to them here. I noticed within 10 minutes and called the hospital, they too had just caught the error, the correct lab slip was faxed and then he had his blood drawn. The lab order had patient B’s name, date of birth, address, insurance information, tests and his diagnosis of Hep C.
    Obviously this is 100% my fault and I take the blame, I came to work today knowing that I will probably be let go at the end of my shift or early next week. The network I work for takes HIPPA very seriously and rightfully so. That’s my story and here’s my question. I’m not going to be able to get a job in health care again, anyone have tips on completely changing career paths? When a prospective health care employer calls to confirm dates and reason for termination and they hear HIPPA violation all chances I had with the new place are gone.
    My employment history is ok, 06/2011-current-phlebotomist, 2009-20015 home health aid, 05/2008-10/2009 worked with people with disabilities, 11/2006-04/2007&11/2007-05/2008phlebotomist at the same hospital that I worked from 04/2007-12/2007 as a tech in inpatient psychiatric unit.
    My resume is fine and the cover letters I sent out last night focused on the interpersonal (I like that word) that I have developed while working with and caring for so many different people. I stated that I’m looking to leave the health care field but all in nicer words- any tips? I could really use some advice on what to say when interviewers ask why I’m leaving health care.

    1. Christy*

      I can’t speak to the health care field particularly, but I’d just be honest: I worked in health care, and I made a mistake that resulted in a HIPPA violation, and that will preclude me from getting a job in the field. (Then talk about your general attention to detail and how you’ve learned from it.)

    2. brightstar*

      I would also read Alison’s column on what to do when you’re expecting to get fired. It has some really good tips, such as discussing severance and negotiating what they will say in response to reference calls.

    3. Hlyssande*

      Ouch, that’s really rough! Are you positive that they’ll let you go, though? Is one mistake something that gets people let go in that institution? If you haven’t already, you may want to bring it up to your manager proactively and maybe offer some possible solutions you can put into place to ensure that you never make that same mistake again (and maybe even some process change suggestions for the department).

      I think managers respond much better when you admit your mistake before it crosses their desk and tell them how you’re going to avoid it happening ever again.

      I know that HIPAA is a huge, important thing (for good reason!), but it kind of scares me that one slipup could potentially destroy a career.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Yeah, you may not be let go. As far as you know, these mistakes happen all the time and there may be a process in place to rectify it. As I understand it, a HIPAA violation needs to be reported, but this was not an intentional violation, so it isn’t as bad.

      2. YourUnfriendlyPhlebotomist*

        I’m the one who caught the mistake, fixed it and brought it to my managers attention. I would be absolutely shocked if I wasn’t fired. The main issue is that once its a HIPPA violation its out of my managers hands and it goes right on up chain of command.

        1. Meg Murry*

          How is your relationship otherwise with your manager? Not HIPAA/medical, but my mother had to fire an employee over breaking a major rule by accident* and since she really liked the employee otherwise, she made some calls and was able to get the employee hired at another store across town by the next week. If this really was an accident, and your relationship is otherwise good with your manager or other co-workers, any chance they could put in a good word for your or serve as a reference to help you get hired elsewhere? Unless this violation costs you your license, this might be the kind of thing where a reasonable story about how the procedure was broken plus an excellent personal reference could get you another position.

          *My mother was manager at a grocery store. One very busy night, one of her best cashiers was working, and a “secret shopper” was sent in to buy cigarettes. The cashier carded the person, and in her hurry didn’t catch that the ID said he was 17, not 18. Because if you ask someone for ID, do you really expect them to show you one that says the person is underage? But store policy said the employee had to be fired for selling cigarette to a minor, and it also cost the store a big fine from the ATF or whoever enforces those things – however, my mother, and the owner gave this employee excellent references, and were actually able to hire her back in a few years.

          1. SunnyLibrarian*

            Ooh, when I was a bartender, someone tried this with me. They almost got away with it. I walked away to make the drink and thought “wait a second, what was the date on that card?” His 21st birthday was only a few days away. He argued about it, but I told him to get lost.

            1. Natalie*

              Bouncer: “It says right here you’re 20? You’re not even going to show me a fake?”

              April: “Sometimes the confidence… confuses people.”

            2. Liane*

              The annual training OldJob did for both tobacco and alcohol sales mentioned it’s not uncommon for an underage buyer to give their real ID, hoping the cashier won’t pay close attention.

              As for those undercover shoppers, they pull some odd stuff. Again, at Old Job, a colleague had one of them present her with a plain piece of paper with a legal age “Birthdate” written on it! Of course it didn’t work. When I heard the story, I said, “Gee, they could have made it a bit harder, and gotten one of those forms the high schools fill out certifying that a student has the GPA to get a learner’s driver permit.”

              @YUPhlebotomist, I am sorry this happened. I wish you the best!

            3. Evie*

              I was at a bar last week – more upscale than I usually frequent – and they actually had a thing on the wall that specified the like minimum date (if that makes sense) required for an ID for that person to be able to drink. Like 29-11-1997 or something (this is in the not-US so drinking age is 18y/o and we do day-month-year for dates).

              It made a lot of sense that on a busy night it might be too much mental gymnastics to keep track of it all in your head! (I know I had to stop and think about it when I was working hospitality)

            4. Clinical Social Worker*

              I was actually almost kicked out of a bar because midnight was 15 minutes away and they didn’t want me to get served before midnight (I turned 21 at midnight). Had to fight with the bouncer and promise ten times I wouldn’t order or drink before midnight. Yeesh. I think they’d recently been in trouble so wanted to avoid that again. At the time though, I was put out.

      3. themmases*

        You know your organization best, but I wouldn’t be so sure that you will be fired especially since it was a mistake. The fact that you caught it and handled it appropriately is a point in your favor. Catching that someone who had the wrong lab slip is a safety near miss as well as as HIPAA issue, and it’s best practice in health care to not punish people for the safety near misses because we want to learn from them and encourage people to report them. Catching the issue is actually a sign of being good at your job.

        In the HIPAA training I’ve done, the case studies of people fired or fined were people who took some action intentionally that they knew or should have known wasn’t allowed. For example, checking a family member’s medical record who was treated there, keeping data on an unencrypted flash drive that they lost, cases of people deliberately reading files that were left out in order to steal SSNs.

        In my time as a research coordinator we had a couple of incidents were information was accidentally shared outside of a study. Research subjects are protected by more than just HIPAA. Records from their participation in a study and sometimes the fact that they did participate are private, even from other health workers unless they give permission. In our case a CD of subject imaging was sent to an intermediary that was supposed to remove the patient name before sending it to our funder, but didn’t. It was our mistake and the intermediary’s mistake (well not mine, I was just in the department). The recipient destroyed the CD, we looked at our processes, and we called the subject to let them know it happened and what we were doing about it. My coworker who made the CD wasn’t disciplined, nor did anyone think she should be.

    4. Lily in NYC*

      I’m really sorry this happened – I hope you don’t just give in without at least trying to save yourself. Tell them you’ve been telling your boss for a year that things were unorganized. Tell them you caught the mistake right away.
      I have a cousin who was training to be a nurse and didn’t like it and now she manages a bunch of halfway houses for adults with mental disabilities. She didn’t have any experience when she started but worked her way up very quickly (less than a year) because it’s hard to find good workers in that field. She loves it but I think it entails a lot of driving around to the different homes.

      1. YourUnfriendlyPhlebotomist*

        I will try, I literally brought the problem up last Wednesday. They have been grooming me to open a new center, telling me that I know what does and does not work in each center because I’ve worked in all 11 but they refuse to make any adjustments at all.

    5. ThursdaysGeek*

      So, when I got a letter from my eye doctor that was actually for the other person in town with my name, someone got fired? I know HIPAA is important, but people are human and do make mistakes. I guess I’m a bit surprised that any mistake, especially one that is caught and no-one was harmed, will be career ending. Do you WANT to leave health care? Or are you just assuming you don’t get a choice?

      1. YourUnfriendlyPhlebotomist*

        The organization that I work for takes HIPPA incredibly serious, far more seriously then the law actually requires. For the past 4 years it hasn’t been a problem because I’m compliant and I don’t mess up but now….

        1. Red Stapler*

          That really sucks. I once got insurance EOB’s for someone else’s procedures and no one at the dr office got fired. We found out there was another woman with my exact name and birthday (but different years), so the billing got messed up. Really upset my mom, cause I was 14 and she received an EOB regarding “my” recent pregnancy test.

          1. fposte*

            Hey, I have an everything-but-year doppelgänger too. I independently verify the year on *everything* because of it.

            1. AnotherAlison*

              The previous residents of our house have our same last name. I think I will get their junk mail forever. One may not be alive anymore. (If she is, she’s 91). Sometimes there is no practical solution to the name mix-ups.

            2. Sam E.*

              I share my birth year with two other women who have my exact name, and we all go to the same small town dentist. So when I call to make an appointment, and give my name and birth year, I get “…Are you the one born in March, June or November?”

          2. Meg Murry*

            Yes, I left a medical practice because they just kept pulling the wrong file (same first name, middle initial and last name) and every time I went in they were like “test results? what test results? You haven’t been here in six months?” and I’d say “no, I’m pregnant and I come here every 4 weeks, and every 4 weeks you pull the wrong file”. I finally asked the office manager if there was some way they could flag my chart, and I think the final solution was giant neon sticky notes that said “2 patients at this practice with the same name, check birth date” or similar.

            But I’m guessing when my name doppelganger went in for her exam and they asked how the pregnancy was progressing she got far more upset than I did :-)

            1. Ad Astra*

              I once had a similar experience with a dentist. They pulled the wrong file and nearly tried to give me a root canal before they realized their mistake. I was there for fillings, so it took me a second to realize they were talking about someone else.

              I’ve also been warned by several doctors to double check my prescriptions, because apparently I have a common name. I have never met anyone with my exact name, but people are constantly telling me “Oh yeah, I have a friend with that same name!”

              My first name is quite common, but I don’t know anyone outside my family with my maiden name. My husband’s name is slightly less common, so now there are only 136 other Ad Astras in the country instead of like 800.

        2. Anonsie*

          For what it’s worth, so does mine– such that one intentional infraction will get you fired immediately.

          However an unintentional infraction, as I have ever seen, does not. That said, the diagnosis on there might tip this in a way I haven’t personally seen. But I have personally seen a lot of identifiers & other patient information get misdirected (and since part of my job is to prevent that, this is infuriating for me) without anyone being fired.

      2. YourUnfriendlyPhlebotomist*

        an no, I don’t care to leave health care, I’m bored and frustrated with my job because changes that should be made are not but other than that I wouldn’t leave.

      3. fposte*

        I think this is a good question–HIPAA violations happen all the time without anybody being fired.

        But, Unfriendly, if I recall correctly you haven’t been enjoying patient care and have been wanting a less hands-on kind of position, so maybe now is the time to kick that hunt into gear even if they don’t let you go.

      4. Creag an Tuire*

        Now I’m glad I didn’t bother to call the doctor’s office to tell them they’d accidentally mailed me the test results for “Creag M. Tuire” along with mine. I mean, sure it’s technically a violation of his privacy, but since I don’t know him from Adam’s house-cat the harm isn’t worth ending somebody’s career over…

      5. Krystal*

        About a month ago, I received an email with another woman’s OBGYN bill attached. The bill had a complete listing of the tests she had performed. I now know that another woman has genital herpes and precancerous cervical cells.

        I called the office and they weren’t that concerned – oh, just delete it. So I filed an official complaint, and I hope that someone gets fired.

        1. Red Stapler*

          I agree, the attitude of the staff makes a huge difference. When the dr office mixed me up with another patient, they apologized profusely and from then on I had to tell them my birthdate when I made appointments, then they’d read it back to me to confirm, & verify it again at check in each time. We never got mixed up again.

          In your case, Unfriendly, I’d say the fact that you reported the mistake before the patient & tried to get it back is a huge mark in your favor. I’d hope future employers would understand. Honestly, even if they don’t fire you, you should look elsewhere anyway. A workplace that punishes people for being human, is only setting people up for failure.

      6. Kelly L.*

        The Secret Tragedy behind The Blue Castle*

        (*yesiknowitwaslike100yearsagoandincanada)

        (**sorry for the oblique spoiler)

        2. Emily, admin extraordinaire*

          Fabulous book. Good thing it ended up not being an actual tragedy, though. :)

      7. Arjay*

        I’ve worked in healthcare for more than 20 years and have never seen someone fired over an accidental HIPAA violation. Even if they do let you go from this job, I would in no way think that it would be career-ending. I’ve seen people get fired for a lot worse, and they don’t seem to have a problem finding a new job in the same field. Good luck.

        1. Dot Warner*

          I agree, I’ve never heard of anyone getting fired over one accidental HIPAA violation. In my experience, it’s the people who make repeated mistakes or deliberately divulge info to the wrong places that get fired.

          1. Windchime*

            I’ve seen someone fired for a kind of accidental violation. She should have known better, though. She was a receptionist in an OBGYN department and an fellow employee’s daughter came in for prenatal care. Next time the receptionist saw the coworker, she congratulated her on her grandchild-to-be. Except the coworker didn’t know her daughter was pregnant. Oooops. Daughter was understandably outraged that her personal medical situation had been shared to her mother, and the receptionist was fired. It was an innocent mistake, but not the kind of mistake that those of us in healthcare are allowed to make out of respect for our patients’ privacy.

            1. fposte*

              I don’t think that’s an accidental violation, though; that’s an intentional violation, in that the employee knowingly related HIPAA-protected PHI to somebody not the patient (as opposed to accidentally putting it in the wrong envelope).

              She may not have realized that the information wasn’t already known to her audience, but she knew she was sharing it with a non-patient. I’d have fired in that situation too.

      8. Liane*

        I don’t know about it getting someone fired, but it IS a serious violation. When I edited medical transcriptions, the FIRST thing I was listening for was to make sure ALL the identifying info (patient name, gender, birthdate, doctor’s name, etc.) in the header matched exactly with the dictation of that info. If not, it went straight to Quality Assurance because, I was told, if a transcription ended up on the wrong doctor’s desk, even if s/he never read it, it was a HIPAA violation.

    6. Rat Racer*

      That really sucks because it sounds like the organization set you up for failure. Not only that but you also deserve credit for catching the mistake right away and trying to fix it, rather than covering it up. (Way to encourage people to be proactive and accountable). My ranting here is totally not helping you, but I’m seriously pissed at your organization. HIPAA violations are a HUGE deal, but just like medical errors, human beings need organizational and team support to make sure that they don’t happen. It’s a really stupid organization that throws the lone employee under the bus for their own incompetence. Sorry this happened to you.

      And – nitpick – it’s HIPAA folks. Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

      1. Solidus Pilcrow*

        And – nitpick – it’s HIPAA folks. Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

        I was just nitpicking this on a candidate resume this week! He used both HIPPA (incorrect) and HIPAA (correct). It wasn’t the thing that got him rejected, but it was something I noticed right away and it certainly didn’t help him.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Yeah, it sounds like YUP is the only one on the ball there, it would be very unwise of this practice to fire her for catching her own mistake.

        And this is something that you should mention, OP. Others are watching to see what happens to you. The message here is “If you try to correct your own mistake, if you try to own it in any manner, then we fire you.”

        What happens next in work places like this is NOT pretty as people try to hide their mistakes even better and so on. You could point this out to TPTB.

    7. Jennifer*

      You have my sympathies. I hope finding some other job field works out for you. You’re already sounding calmer than I would be in the same boat.

      1. YourUnfriendlyPhlebotomist*

        I feel strangely calm. I have $70 in my savings account but for some reason i’m not panicked yet.

    8. Nom d' Pixel*

      I hope that the situation isn’t as dire as you think it is. You caught the mistake early and corrected it, so that should count in your favor. If it doesn’t, there are other types of labwork that you might want to consider. I work in a bioanalytical lab where we analyze blood samples from clinical trials. We have a few former plebotomists in our department.

    9. Mike C.*

      If they take it so seriously, why did they ignore you when you pointed out a clear risk of process failure?

      Blaming people first and firing for a first mistake is a great way to get high turnover and employees who hide mistakes rather than fixing them. That’s going to get people killed.

      Sorry to hear this. :(

      1. LizNYC*

        *steps up on soapbox* because nurses and other medical office workers are often told that whatever resources they have are the ones they’re expected to work with. My mom is leaving an internationally known institution because she’s been asking for 2 years for help and they keep saying she should “work with what she has” (which is enough work for 4 16-hour days), despite a multibillion-dollar endowment.

        1. OhNo*

          Seriously. I don’t have any family in the healthcare field, but I spend a lot of time in and around doctor’s offices and I hear that all the time. Healthcare workers must be magic, because I would go bonkers if my boss(es) just kept telling me to make do.

          Definitely agree with Mike C., though. If there’s any chance you won’t get fired (fingers crossed!), can you turn this mistake into an example of what you were already saying? Maybe if they see that it really does cause mistakes to happen, they’ll finally get off their butts and fix it.

        2. Dot Warner*

          Definitely! In my (limited) experience, it doesn’t matter how much you try to tell upper management that you’re seriously understaffed and a huge mistake is just waiting to happen, they won’t hire more staff. Don’t you know that the hospital needs to hire a marketing team to come up with flashy ads and a new mission statement? Get your priorities straight!

      2. Anonsie*

        <blockquoteIf they take it so seriously, why did they ignore you when you pointed out a clear risk of process failure?

        *Ancient Aliens guy face* Hospitals

        And yeah this is why a lot of hospital gigs have such high turnover. It’s… Basically standard. You get used to it.

    10. bad at online naming*

      Whoa!

      I work in healthcare, at a large enough organization that HIPAA violations happen pretty regularly. We report them, track them, have a team for responding to potential violations as quickly as possible, and work on prevention procedures. No one has ever been fired over them! (Except for the time someone was caught (trying) to sell medical information.)

      1. bad at online naming*

        By regularly I don’t mean to imply it’s not taken seriously or we’re lax – just that humans make mistakes, and a lot more humans usually make a lot more mistakes. We just don’t punish for them, we set up known appropriate responses to possible issues and work to make procedures where it is difficult to make mistakes.

      2. Lindsay J*

        So much this. I work in a different field, but one that runs on a similar idea. You want to encourage people to report mistakes so that issues in processes can be identified and other steps can be taken to prevent future occurances from happening.

        Firing people for one *inadvertant* and reported mistake (ie, putting the wrong piece of paper in the wrong hands, not looking up a celebrity’s medical information or showing up to work drunk) just means that most people will try to cover up their mistakes, you won’t be able to use them as a learning opportunity, and you’ll see more of the same mistake in the future.

    11. YourUnfriendlyPhlebotomist*

      we recently- like this spring had a staff member go to the police about a patient who was creeping her out and she wanted to know if there was anything she should be worried about. because she told the police the patients name and date of birth she was fired for a HIPAA violation

      1. OhNo*

        What.

        I get that HIPAA is a big deal, although I don’t know that much about it. But this just sounds like they’re implying pretty heavily that employee safety isn’t important to them at all. Just… wow. Would people get fired for reporting if they were assaulted by a patient, too?

        As awful as I’m sure it sounds, I’m hoping that this other person had some other issues, and the violation was just the cherry on top that led to firing. If they fired her just for that… Well, that’s not the kind of health organization I would want to be a patient at, that’s for sure.

        1. Treena*

          What!? You’re creeped out by a patient/client and the first thing you do is go to the *police*?? That’s way over the top and completely out of line, 100% fireable, even as a single instance. First step would be to ask a co-worker’s opinion, or even share your concerns with a manager. Go over their head if you’re ignored. But being “creeped out” is nowhere near the level of police involvement and I’ve worked at healthcare orgs that regularly calls the police for all levels of security issues.

          1. Lindsay J*

            Yeah, and I don’t know why being calling the police about being creeped out would require disclosing the patient’s name and date of birth anyway (unless she was asking them to run a criminal history check on him or something, which I don’t think they would do just because a civilian requested it unless by asking the police she meant asking a friend who happens to be a cop vs calling the police department directly.)

            I don’t think she should have been fired if she called the police and asked them to come respond to a developing situation (even if the situation turned out to be not a dangerous one) or called to have the patient evaluated for a 72 hour psychiatric hold because she thought he was a danger to himself or others (though being in a hospital I feel like there is probably a way to do that without police involvement) [wait, is it a hospital? I forget where she works].

            But the phrase “to see if there is anything she should be worried about” seems weird to me and makes me think that calling them for an active response wasn’t the situation that occurred.

            1. Lindsay J*

              Just to clarify, that makes it even more wrong in my eyes.

              If she called the cops because she was creeped out by the patient, thought he was an immediate danger to her, and wanted them to come arrest or evaluate him, that would be one thing. Yes, possibly a massive overreaction depending on the circumstances (if creeped out means he’s a creepy old man who leers at me vs creeped out means that he’s muttering about stabbing people under his breath and gesturing erratically). But I could understand why she might do it at least.

              But calling to see if there is anything she should be worried about makes me envision her calling and pretty much going, “hey, there’s this guy here who is being creepy. Does he have a prior violent crime record?” or similar, which seemed even weirder and more off-base to me.

    12. RachelR*

      I’m sorry this happened to you. I just want to say that I really admire how you’re handling this; I would probably fall to pieces, but you’re just looking at the next steps and doing what needs to be done.

    13. Mimmy*

      I’m keeping my eye on this post – Please keep us posted on this! Hopefully the fact that you reported the error right away is a point in your favor.

  5. Sunflower*

    Does anyone here work in legal marketing? I recently found out the turnover is pretty high in this industry and while I’ve read/heard many reasons why, I’m curious what people who work in it have to say. Hours, money, stress, lack of opportunities by staying at one firm?

    1. LNB*

      I had a good friend who is currently in legal marketing. She has pretty long hours and has to work overtime doing a lot of events. That may be reason for high turnover. I think something else worth mentioning is that marketing for a specific legal firm felt very niche for her and she is currently trying to break out of that.

    2. 2 Cents*

      I work at an ad agency, but we have two law firm clients. Both of their heads of marketing have been there for ages, and both always seem really stressed out — and kinda devoid of humor. I know these are generalizations, but I know they get hounded for everything from their attorneys.

    3. Fmr Law Firm Employee*

      Yes, all of the above. Plus, in many law firms, if you are not an attorney, you are a second class citizen. Looked down upon and not respected. There are obviously some firms that are not like this but many midlaw/biglaw firms are that way. It can be a rough place to be.

  6. bassclefchick*

    Hi, all! I had my big interview on Wednesday and I think it went well!! They gave me the questions just before they came to get me, which I really liked. The only odd question they asked was if I were hiring, who would I hire? well, um, I would hire me. Of course. But I didn’t think that was how I was “supposed” to answer, so I gave qualities that matche me. Not really sure what they were looking for with that question. Oh well. Should find out by the end of next week, I hope. Keep sending the good thoughts and thanks for the encouragement!

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      I would hire the person most qualified for the job. I’m hoping it’s me based upon…yada yada yada.

    3. Minion*

      I tend to joke when nervous, so I was asked in an interview once what my dream job was and I answered, “Well, this one, of course!”
      It was a panel interview and everyone laughed except for one woman who literally glared at me without blinking or smiling.
      Obviously, she was not impressed with my attempt at humor. I didn’t get that job. So, yeah…putting down that you’d hire you may not go over so well. Wise decision. Hope you get it. :)

    4. Development professional*

      I would take it as an opportunity to describe all the ways you’re qualified. “I’d hire someone with extensive experience in teapot design in both chocolate and porcelain formats.” And you just happen to meet those criteria!

    5. Elsajeni*

      What a weird question! I wonder if it was supposed to get at “how well do you understand the requirements of the position” — like, they don’t want someone who says “I would hire someone who’s an expert on hand-carving chocolate teapot spouts” when in fact their spouts are mass-produced using molds — but if so, it doesn’t seem like they did a very good job of it.

    6. JBeane*

      Congrats and good luck!

      I had a similar question during an interview this week. They asked, “If there was someone more qualified for this job, why would that person be more qualified?”

      That was a doozy!

  7. Gillian*

    Does anyone have interview tips for when you’re going for an internal interview and the hiring manager is your current boss? Obviously this would need to be a more formal thing than our weekly 1:1s, but I’m not sure how to prepare to talk myself up to someone who I already talk to almost every day.

    1. Pickles*

      Don’t assume they know you, your background, or what have done/are doing/can do/goals. That’s the biggest thing I see from internal candidates where I work. Our formal interview are so rigid that if candidates don’t mention the “obvious” (which may or may not be obvious), it can’t be counted – resumes are ranked separately, so even if it’s there, it doesn’t count for the interview portion. Stupid, I know, but I saw it backfire for someone once because he didn’t mention he’d been filling in for the vacant position for over a year, on the assumption that the panel was already aware. He talked about what he’d done, but never directly said he was doing it with the inherent trust of the boss already.

      1. Gillian*

        I’m hoping we’re not that rigid (not familiar with the internal hiring process), but that’s good to keep in mind. Thanks!

      2. Lily Rowan*

        My job isn’t that formal, so I kind of chuckled — but still appreciated it! — when an internal candidate expressed her interest in an email that opened “Dear Ms. Rowan.”

    2. onnellinen*

      In my experience, treat it as you would an external interview. Sometimes the interviewer (or HR, if they are also involved) will explicitly say “We will be making decisions based on the answers you give, please treat this as though we know nothing about you”. And good luck!

      1. some1*

        Being an AAM regular, this is what I did when I had to interview with my Boss’s boss went I went temp to perm. I emailed my boss, “I’m having an interview with [Managing Dir] and I was wondering if there’s anything you think he’d like to hear me touch on.” and he replied, “Just be yourself. [smiley face]” Turns out that it was a rubber stamp situation but it doesn’t hurt to be prepared.

    3. LQ*

      I just did this. I treated it as an external interview with a couple exceptions. I didn’t actually dress up more than I normally would. I almost exclusively used examples from that job. I have been here for a couple years so I had a range of things to talk about. I sort of acted like they knew the projects but not me. It helped me really sell myself better and not assume they knew how awesome I was.
      (I got the job–and my boss commented how good the interview went– so it must have worked. )

      1. Meg Murry*

        I would dress up slightly – either to “most formal dress ever required in this position” or “outfit that makes me feel extra confident and businesslike”, but not all the way to full suit if that isn’t normal wear in your office.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Try to prepare one or more talking points that you know your boss is not aware of. I know I can usually come up with something that I have never mentioned before, as it just did not come up in ordinary conversation.

    5. skyline*

      I think it depends a lot upon your internal culture. While I haven’t been in this exact situation, I have had interviews where my current boss was on the interview panel or where the hiring manager was someone to whom I’d previously reported. While I addressed my cover letter to them by first name (“Dear Jane,” since “Dear Ms. Smith” just felt ridiculous), I did pull out the full power suit for the interview. (We are a casual workplace, but many manager still dress in business attire, especially on days with significant meetings or interviews.) I still prepped by thinking of examples/stories to share in my responses. And if the hiring manager had given me positive feedback on a project in the past, I often tried to take advantage of that by using that project as one of my examples. (Not in a “you said I did this well” way but in a “this project is an example of me demonstrating X, Y, and Z skills”).

  8. J.B.*

    Sigh, just feeling stuck. Another interview leading to nothing – my odd little niche doesn’t translate when there are good people already doing the same job. At some point I’ll decide what I want to be when I grow up and maybe go back to school.

    1. Big Tom*

      That sucks, I’m sorry. I’ve been feeling stuck that way for like a year, and it keeps getting worse. I’ve gotten a few interviews, even some promising ones, but it always ends the same way. I hope it gets better for you.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Just as a self check: Don’t take that decision so seriously that you stop your own progress. Make your best guess at what is next and start researching now. If you don’t like what you are finding out, make another “best guess” and start researching that arena.

    4. Evie*

      I feel ya. I was at a loose ends and feeling very directionless a few years ago and looked into some further study as one option. I eventually went with the study – and a new job!- and the study was fantastic – interesting, relevant to my field, and eventually lead to my current, much more living condition friend position. Unfortunetly while it’s a great learning experience and has improved my skills and knowledge greatly, it’s not a full qualification. So while I should be happy that I’m at the end of it, and I’ve done better than I’d expected, and have got so much out of it, I need to start seriously considering which of several possible qualifications (different paths, different jobs, different amounts of hassle to get but still the same field- more or less) to get and then all the more specific details (which organisation, distance or in person, stay at current job while I do it etc). I hope you find something to inspire you and help you figure out the next step!

  9. Stephen King's Constant Reader*

    Happy Friday! I have a question about application/interview ethics here and would appreciate any feedback/opinions.
    Has anyone ever quit a job and rather than saying that to potential employers, instead said that they were laid off? I know that doesn’t sound very good but here’s my situation: I’ve been at CurrentJob for almost two years, job hunting seriously for about 6-7 months. As we all know, the job hunting process can take a million years, even longer if you’re in academia (which I am). However, in the past few months my department has become unbearably more toxic and stressful and my role just keeps changing for the worse due to a new boss that does not want to do anything, and I’m almost at the end of my rope. The only things keeping me from quitting are bills and the perception that I am a failure/quitter to potential employers. The university is state funded but I have the kind of role that is funded by the department (not full-time, unfortunately, although I am expected to do almost everything everyone else in my dept. does and in less time per week), so technically my job can be pulled at any time or at the end of the semester, for instance. So I was wondering if I were to quit, when employers ask why I left my current position, what if I just say that the dept. cut the role, rather than have to navigate that unpleasant question? Or is this straying too close to flat-out deceit? I’d love to hear from the hiring managers out there who have had to interview people in situations like these (not fired, but otherwise left their jobs). Would you rather hear that someone has been laid off due to budget cuts or would you rather hear why they quit?

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      It would be flat-out deceit, so don’t do it. Just tell them that the position could have been eliminated at any time, so you left to concentrate on job-hunting full-time, which you can decide to make the truth, because it’s all about your motivation.

    2. Kasia*

      Yeah you definitely shouldn’t lie….

      It might be better to explain it as you were going through some personal issues at the time that required you to leave your position but they’re all taken care of now. Or something of the sort.

      What if you lied and said you were laid off then they called HR and asked for employment verification and they said you quit. That’s just a bad idea

    3. Dasha*

      What if you just said you were looking for something more stable since the job is state funded and it could be a semester to semester thing? Don’t say anything about being laid off, since that is deceitful.

    4. Kenzie*

      I totally understand your position having worked in an unbearable job in the past!

      I think your best bet is to keep hanging in there while looking for another job and you will avoid this situation entirely. This would be especially important if you are looking for another academic job in the same area as CurrentJob, as you never know if they may find out the real reason you left from a friend/contact or a reference, and then you would be in a very sticky situation.

      Plus if you quit, all your worries about bills etc could become worse if your job search takes longer than you anticipate.

    5. Lily in NYC*

      No, don’t lie. I would just say you are looking for a more stable position – there’s nothing wrong with that and I don’t think anyone would think twice about it. You can say you left before you had another job lined up because the hours were long and you wanted to devote more time to finding a new one.

    6. Althea*

      If you told me your position was cut and I then reference checked at the university to be told you quit… I’d call that a lie and immediately plant a huge red flag on your application. That would tell me, “this person is willing to lie to avoid difficult conversations.” Not someone I’m going to hire, most likely.

    7. Solidus Pilcrow*

      In addition to the uncertainty, “my role just keeps changing” is an acceptable reason for leaving a position.

    8. Anon For This*

      This is probably a complete long shot, but is there any way you could get them to lay you off?

      My previous job turned into the job-from-hell and I was looking for a long time with no luck before I reached the point where I just had to get out of there. Thankfully, just as I was reaching my breaking point there was a cashflow crunch. So I approached my boss and told him that the stress of the job was affecting my health (didn’t bother to tell him I meant mental health), and pointed out that with the cashflow crunch it would benefit the company to not have to pay my salary, and how they could get along without me/someone in my position for a while until the cashflow cleared up. So I suggested to him that he lay me off. He agreed, and signed a letter (that I had prepared) to that effect.

      I realize I got incredibly lucky. I’ll also admit it was a small startup company, and my boss very well might not have really understood the distinction between “lay-off” and “quit”. Whereas you work for a large organization that I’m sure has an actual HR department who won’t fall for that, even if you could come up with an argument for why it would benefit them to lay you off. But it might be worth thinking on the idea to see if you could maybe make it work.

      My backup plan, if he didn’t agree to the lay-off, was to quit. But even then I had prepared my argument for constructive dismissal (which I wanted to be able to claim so that I could qualify for unemployment). I don’t know if your “toxic” environment is bad enough to cross the line into that territory. But if so, then maybe in future interviews it might be (slightly) better to say “it was a constructive dismissal situation” instead of “I quit”. (Or maybe not. I know a lot of interviewers might not understand what that means or even if they do they might push for details you’d rather not give. Or it just wouldn’t be any better of a response than admitting you quit. But again, something to consider.)

    9. Stephen King's Constant Reader*

      Thanks to everyone for your responses! I like a lot of the language left here.

  10. chem girl*

    I want to know if I shot myself in the foot :( I answered a job posting asking for the salary I was looking for and I answered (why I didn’t leave it blank I don’t know). But I think I low balled myself. Actually, I know I did, by about 10-15k. Howver, it was through a recruiter that I answered the salary question- not the company. I recently interviewed with them and am waiting to hear back (did not discuss salary). I need advice- should I say something to my recruiter? Or did I miss that boat? (I never negotiated salary before- first job.) I don’t have an offer yet/don’t know if I will be getting one.

    1. SweetTeapots*

      I recently applied for a position through a web form where current salary was a required field. I tried N/A, I tried typing why I didn’t respond. Nothing worked, just a number. So I rounded up to the nearest $5,000, but I was very unhappy to be forced to include it :/

      I wouldn’t stress about it too much until you receive an offer. If it’s lower than you want and lower than you feel you deserve you can explain that you’ve researched the industry standards more and feel more comfortable with XX.

      1. Althea*

        You can always enter the number “1” if you need to. Difficult for a computer, easy for a human to tell that’s just a way to put N/A. I typically feel pretty disgusted when required to name my current salary – it’s not anyone’s business, until all salaries are transparent.

        1. SweetTeapots*

          I wasn’t sure if just entering 1 would be off-putting to the company (can’t follow directions?). In the end I’m not too upset about it because I make slightly above average for the state I’m in and will only help to increase my wages in this position, if I get it, but I don’t agree with the method at all!

          1. Natalie*

            Meh, IMO any company that can’t figure out “1” is a way to get by the form is either too rigid or too stupid for my taste. (I appreciate that’s not an option for everyone, though.)

      2. chem girl*

        PHEW. thank you. I was seriously stressing about this, haha. I’ve applied to places where they force you to include it – I hate that too! This was me being dumb though; it was an essay-like form. :/

        I went on an interview the other day for a different company and they asked me what I was looking for. I answered and they responded, “We don’t have a salary yet for this position; we wanted your answer.” >:(

    2. Sunflower*

      I think if it’s an external recruiter, you have more leeway to go back and say you changed your salary requirements than if it was internal or a hiring manager. I would email the recruiter and say ‘After hearing about the company and job requirements, I’ve determined my salary requirements are actually X. Please let me know we should continue with the interview process.’

      Whether to email the recruiter now or wait til they contact you for a second interview is up to you. I could argue both sides so whichever one you’d feel more comfortable with.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        I’ve actually had recruiters try to talk me into accepting a lower salary. I think it’s the same principle described in “Freakonomics” where real estate brokers push sellers to accept lower offers rather than keep the house on the market for a better offer — the recruiter makes more money by locking you down, even at a lower salary, and moving on to her next opening than by losing time on negotiations.

    4. Solidus Pilcrow*

      This is a dilemma isn’t it? Put in your desired salary and you may price yourself out of the running. Put in the low end of the salary you can live on and you may lock yourself into low pay.

      As for your situation, the negotiation of salary is between you and the employer. The recruiter can be left out of it once you accept the offer (if the recruiter’s commission is based on your salary the employer will take care of that end).

      However, if you are still going to continue work with the recruiter, then I think you can go back to the recruiter and ask if the amount you entered can be changed. Being the recruiter’s system, they’re probably using salary range as a preliminary filter. Ask them if they’re likely to filter you out of positions based on the number entered. Who knows, maybe entering a higher number will reduce the number of hits.

    6. Ops Analyst*

      How about something like “My original salary figure was based on the limited information provided in the job description, but now that I know more about the position and the kinds of responsibilities I would have, I’d like to revisit the discussion.”

  11. Regular commenter who asked about this a few weeks ago*

    I’m quitting the board I’m on today! I can’t wait. It’s long overdue. And I have no doubts or regrets about it at all. 3 pm can’t get here soon enough.

    2. K.*

      I quit a board too (I think I mentioned or asked about quitting here once) and I didn’t regret quitting for a second even though I wasn’t on very long. When I talk about it now, I talk about listening to my gut. (The president was … difficult and a lot of people quit.) Congrats!

      1. Regular commenter who asked about this a few weeks ago*

        Sounds familiar! I won’t regret quitting, only waiting. Honestly, I shouldn’t’ve said yes when they asked me to join in the first place. Oh well, at least I’ve made some friends from my time there.

    3. Christy*

      It was me! I quit. I said I’d stay for the next in person meeting and then I’m free! She tried to guilt me into staying but I had none of it.

  12. Xanthippe Lannister Voorhees*

    I spent last weekend digging through all of AAM’s cover letter advice and examples and I still feel useless trying to write one. I know why I want the job, I know I’m enthusiastic, and I feel strongly that I’m at least worth interviewing but when I try to write a cover letter it’s like I’m too far inside my own head and I know I’m coming off stilted and stuffy. I know I’ve presented myself adequately at least once before because I got my current job but I just can’t seem to get my desire for this new position to translate to the page

    2. kpee*

      When I’m really stuck in my head, I often imagine writing the letter as though I’m writing it on behalf of my best friend, but plug in my own skills/experience. It really helps to take the focus off of myself — I even picture her in a cute office outfit while I’m writing and for some reason it makes me feel excited to help her out, which makes writing feel fun instead of scary.

    3. AFT123*

      Maybe experiment with recording yourself just saying how you feel, and then transcribe it and see if you can work from that?

    4. Former Diet Coke Addict*

      Can you write an email to a friend talking about why you’re so excited for the job? I’ve done that a couple of times and then formalized it a bit for the real letter. Something about the personal connection and more relaxed tone makes it easier for me.

      1. themmases*

        This is really good advice. I think I read something similar here once, about what you would say to a friend if you were trying to tell them how excited you are for this opening and why they should totally hire you. I try to picture myself on wine night, really saying what I think to a close friend, for the first draft and then clean it up.

        It has also been helpful because if I can’t do it, it indicates the opening is not really that exciting to me. I might still apply depending on the situation, but that tells me how invested to get.

      2. Elsajeni*

        I’ve said it before, but Email To Mom/Grandma is my target tone for cover letters. (I learned this a couple of years ago, when I actually did email my mom about a cool job I had found, and told her all about how exciting it was and what a great fit it seemed like, and then spent a paragraph complaining about how hard it was to write a cover letter, and she wrote back “Uh, duh, tell them what you told me?”)

    5. Anx*

      Sometimes I try to talk about a job to a friend, but online. This sounds really corny, but I’ll talk to my boyfriend while we’re both home about why I’d be great for it or why it’d be great for me. I’m better with written words, but I like the option to talk it out, too.

      Then I look over my chat history for ideas to start building it.

      I love the AAM advice on cover letters, but I actually really don’t connect at all with the examples on this site. Maybe I’m shooting myself in the foot, but I just can’t write that way and it would give me so much more anxiety about the process. My natural speech is a little stuffy, and I’m trying to work on that, but I’m also trying to be authentic.

      1. mander*

        I have the same problem! For me I think it’s my academic background, but I just don’t feel comfortable writing anything with a “chatty” tone. FWIW I do use a lot of ten-dollar words in everyday conversation, so it’s not a complete disconnect.

        Oddly I’ve just noticed how much more informal I am here, though. Perhaps try writing it as if you were responding to comments or a blog post?

    6. Althea*

      Try having a conversation with someone and translate what you say out loud to the CL. The person would need to ask some questions, like “What attracted you to this particular job and company (as opposed to some other job and company)?” “What are your best skills that match with what they talk about needing in the job description?” “Tell me some anecdotes about times you used those skills.” “What are some things that look weird on your resume that you can explain up front?”

      Once you say them out loud, just think back to the conversation and write down the things you said. Then clean up the language and shorten it.

    7. Nashira*

      Do you have someone with whom you can discuss why you want the job and would rock it? I use my husband – we talk about it, and he helps me get excited, then I write down what I said and adjust it to letter format. It helps letters sound a little more conversational, and helps me match an employer’s tone better.

  13. Folklorist*

    Anti-procrastination post!!! Last week, someone posted about being stuck in a procrastination loop, and I was feeling the same way….so I proposed that we all go do something we had been putting off, and report back to brag about it. It helped!

    So–go do something you’ve been avoiding: phone calls, emails, awkward conversations–and report back when you’re done!

    1. Hlyssande*

      Yesterday I finally finished granting access to our application to existing users for the new groups that went live in it (with very low volume) last week. AND I’m back to working on my front end admin manual for said application (starting with definitions of everything). I’ve been putting that off for months.

      I also finally called my cat boarder yesterday to inquire about her availability over the holidays, does that count? :)

    2. Lily in NYC*

      Thank you, I needed to read this. I’ve been procrastinating on a bunch of non-work related stuff and I will make myself do something productive this weekend.

    4. Melpo*

      Thanks! I finally wrote up the report from my annual reviews that has been sitting on my desk forever.

    5. Avery*

      Thanks!
      I called the doctor’s office to figure out what’s going on with our insurance, and why they aren’t paying.

    7. Natalie*

      Oh, I have a couple! I submitted resumes to a few staffing agencies I had contacted weeks ago, and I spent *ages* on the phone with a certain giant telecom attempting to identify an account that had gone into collections.

      Both, incidentally, I did while taking a 60% sick/40% WFH day. I really, really don’t like my job, I guess – I’m more productive at home than I am at the office.

    8. CheeryO*

      Funny, I did this right after lunch today before I read the open thread. I’ve been avoiding making a phone call all freaking week for no good reason. I did it, left a message, it was fine, and I feel approximately 10000% better now that it’s off my to-do list.

    10. Folklorist*

      I FINALLY transcribed two interviews that I had been putting off. Now to keep on the roll and get through four more and finishing the dang article. I think there might be a lot of work this weekend…but I’ve already scheduled a celebratory massage for the end of this project!

    11. Folklorist*

      Also, great job everyone! Keep it up! It always amazes me how those little things block us and how getting them out of the way–FINALLY–lifts what’s weighing us down/holding us back.

    12. Mallory Janis Ian*

      I processed a stack of paperwork. I’d been pushing all the hard stuff to the bottom of the pile, and pretty soon the whole pile was the leftover hard stuff that I didn’t want to do. I made myself do each piece when I came to it (no more shuffling anything to the bottom), and the knowledge that I *had* to deal with it made it easier to decide upon a course of action.

  14. Charlotte Gray*

    I am thinking about leaving my job in the next 6-9 months and am wondering how to screen out workplaces that are full of oversharers. I like that people are friendly here, but I do not need to know about how frequently any of my coworkers use the bathroom (said in a braggy way to boot!). I’m probably changing fields anyway (every job I’ve had in this field has been pretty casual, relationship-wise, in the office), so maybe that will help, but are there questions I can ask in the interview stages to find out what the level of public sharing is? I’m not looking to be BFFs with my colleagues, just to have great working relationships. Thanks!

    1. Dasha*

      When you ask about the company culture really listen, do they say everyone’s like a family or that it’s a professional environment?

      1. K.*

        I posted here a couple of Fridays ago wondering if I should opt out of consideration for a job for which I’d interviewed. (I did opt out.) One of the big red flags was getting the “We’re a family!” answer to my question about company culture. Apparently there was a person who was “like the company mom, she can drive you nuts” which is code for “she’s going to be all up in your business,” which doesn’t work for me. I definitely agree that if you want a working environment that draws professional boundaries (like I do), “We’re family!” is a sign that you should go the other way. My family is my family; my colleagues are my colleagues.

        1. Charlotte Gray*

          Ooh thanks! That would have been a no-go for me too. Good job figuring that out before you were offered the job.

          1. K.*

            Thank you! I was miserable in my last role because the culture and I just weren’t a match (and there were a number of changes over my time there that made things worse for me, not better), so I’m paying particular attention to it in my search now.

        2. A.J.*

          Ugh. I’m actually getting the same exact vibe from the company that just extended me an offer. The head of HR who was in charge of my hiring process sounds just like the company mom– she knows every little detail of every person in the 150+ person office, and she wasn’t afraid to share that info with me (including several detailed stories about the people I was interviewing with). And it creeped me out big time. I also posted last week about how she kept patting me on the back and shoulder several times, and then asked me a bunch of personal questions (like about my relationship status, living situation, etc.). She was also texting updates on my status to my personal phone. If I could be sure that I’d never deal with her, then I’d take the job. I actually once thought it would be my dream company, because the stuff they work on is super awesome. Between this horrifying unprofessional behavior and the 1 hr commute… I’m definitely considering turning the job down.

    2. Sadsack*

      I think I’d be listening for remarks about it being like a family or close-knit, for one thing. You could then ask in what ways. Go from there.

    3. Rebecca in Dallas*

      Haha, I could have written this question! I know waaaay too much about my coworkers’ lives.

    4. Merry and Bright*

      My current job is OK but at one place I worked there were two coworkers who were serious oversharers. I knew things about their families that I didn’t know about my own.

  15. Anonasaurus Rex*

    My husband is hosting a bar night tonight to celebrate a big promotion. This is a huge deal for him, and I couldn’t be prouder. However, I’ve been dealing with some pretty crippling depression the past couple of months, and today is especially bad. I’m weepy and weird. Not going to the bar night really isn’t an option. It would hurt him and it wouldn’t look good. All of his coworkers will be there, none of whom I know well. Anyone been in a similar situation? Any tips on how to hold it together for a couple of hours?

    1. Bekx*

      Fake it until you make it.

      I know that doesn’t really help, per se, but you have to just do it. There’s no magical cure. If there’s something you can focus on to look forward to (besides the night ending) that sometimes works for me. Things like “Oh, I’ll get to have those delicious sweet potato fries when I go!” or “Maybe the red lipstick I just bought will be perfect to wear.” are all little moments that can boost you up.

      Good luck.

    2. Dasha*

      Oh that’s tough, would it be easier if you showed up a bit late? (Just throwing out ideas) If it wouldn’t seem rude, maybe by then everyone will have a few drinks, it will be further into the night, and you wouldn’t have to stay as long?

      If you’re feeling weepy, keep a glass of cold water with you! I think we’ve discussed it on another post before but it helps with the crying reflex – so does pressing on the sides of your nose (maybe google this, I can’t remember the exact instructions).

      Could you try taking a bubble bath or nice hot shower beforehand? Sometimes that soothes my mood.

      Good luck, tonight- wishing you the best!

      1. June*

        Wait, what I do with the cold water? My crying reflex has been working overtime too and I need this help.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I like this cold water idea. Also, have tissues–if you overflow, you can always blow your nose and blame it on seasonal allergies (I do this one a lot and no one is the wiser).

        1. the_scientist*

          We’re also getting into cold and flu season, at least in the Northern Hemisphere, so if anyone mentions that you look tired/puffy-eyed, you could always mention that you feel like you’re coming down with something. Also, take care of yourself-do something that you really want to do as a reward for making it through the evening, even if that something is spending all day Saturday in bed with a book.

          1. Solidus Pilcrow*

            Bonus that people will probably keep their distance when you tell them you think you’re coming down with something.

            Migraines can also be a good excuse to be “weepy and weird” and provide a reason if you need to retreat a bit or leave early.

        3. Elizabeth the Ginger*

          I would claim a cold. It offers an explanation for watery eyes, exhaustion, and going home early “to drink some tea and go to bed.”

    3. Sunflower*

      Agree to fake it til you make it and just tell the group you’re feeling under the weather and allergies are acting up (if you’re getting teary). I’m not sure what/if you have any methods that help you cope with your depression but if you do, do them today and esp before you leave. For me, concentrated deep breaths help when I feel myself starting to get riled up and start crying. Also dancing in my living room alone can help lift my mood a bit.

      1. setsuko*

        yep – I always go with the allergies acting up excuse. If they ask what you are allergic to, just say that you have never been able to figure that one out.

        1. gg*

          I helps that it’s actually true for me. But if I need to fake “allergies” to cover up tears, and I’m in a public space, my go to answer is, “Oh, it must be all the different perfumes/colognes in here.”

        2. Shannon*

          “Pollen.” For some reason, that works no matter what season it is, except the dead of winter. I’m also very lucky that I live in an area where it can be 80 one day and 40 the next, so, “All of this crazy weather is just driving my allergies nuts,” is also a valid excuse.

          1. Merry and Bright*

            Same here. In winter I go for fog and/or traffic pollution and they can affect me so it isn’t untrue.

    4. asl*

      I’m sorry to hear that – and I know how sucky it can be when depression hits and you have to put on a happy face or risk feeling like you’re disappointing loved ones. Is this something your husband is aware of? If so, can you talk with him and say that you are so proud and would love to support him, but only have it in you to be social for an hour / 20 minutes / one drink?

      Either way, when I’m not up for socializing but have to, I find it useful to give myself a task – at a bar it’s hard to help the host, or do dishes or something like that, but you could give yourself a task like “get an update from x number of people about their life”, or “by 10pm, have 3 conversations with different people” or even “only hide in the bathroom twice the whole night”. I’m also a fan of going for walks outside or finding a buddy who also looks like they’d rather not be there. Good luck.

        1. Dynamic Beige*

          As someone who’s not the best at making small talk, parties where there’s something going on — cards, boardgames — are way easier for me than the standard standing-around-with-a-drink-in-hand (especially because I drive everywhere).

          If there is something you can do to make yourself useful, it gives you a focus, reason to be there and something to talk about. One of the best parties I ever went to at OldJob was one where I volunteered to run the drinks ticket table for a fundraising event. I wound up doing it for most of the night. People came up to me, I knew what they wanted, it was simple to ask “how are you tonight? Having a good time?” kind of thing and the night flew by.

          So you could make it your mission to figure out who it is that works with your husband. Once you’ve asked what they do, how they like working at the company, you can ask “Husband sometimes talks about X, is he here tonight? Can you point him out to me?” But when people find out that you’re The Wife, they may be coming up to you anyway if they’re as happy as your husband is about the promotion, just to meet you and hear you say how proud you are. If there are pool tables there, play some games even if you suck at it or learn how to play darts or whatever. As someone who suffers from depression as well, sometimes getting out of my own head helps.

          I would also say that if you’re feeling weird and weepy today… can you just let it out? Are you working from home or something where you could have a good solid crying jag for an hour and try to get it out of your system? Take a walk around the block to calm down, have a nap?

    5. Daisy Steiner*

      Think of it as something you’re being paid to do, like a job. You don’t really want to do it, but it’s your job so you don’t really have a choice. Just do it.

      OR do this mental exercise: ask yourself “If someone told me that Brad Pitt-” or whichever celebrity you would love to meet “-was going to be there tonight, would I find a way to be there?”. Often just thinking about that gives me that little boost that I need to realise “Yes, I can do this.”

    6. Erin*

      I would recommend leaving early instead of coming late. I think it would be more noticeable to others if you’re late.

      Having an end time in mind helps me in situations like this. No matter what happens, I can walk out that door at X-o-clock. Just make sure your husband is on board with whatever your plan is.

      Mention to a few people you need to leave early: “Hi, I’m Jane, Eric’s wife. I just wanted to introduce myself while I had the chance, I have to duck out early in a little bit.” If someone asks, just say you have other plans that evening OR blame it on your kids if applicable! That’s always a great go-to.

      Other than leaving early, is there anything you can do that would make yourself more comfortable?

      Take anxiety medication beforehand (if you’re prescribed/it’s safe/you won’t be too loopy/etc)? Bring a wingwoman with you so you have someone by your side while the husband is schmoozing? Step out with the smokers every little bit, just to get away for a second? Listen to relaxing music on the way there? Do yoga beforehand?

      If there’s anything you can do that will make you feel a little calmer and at ease try to make it happen.

      Good luck. Sometimes these things aren’t as bad as you think they’ll be. Maybe you’ll hit it off with one of the other wives and end up having a decent time.

    7. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Don’t drink any alcohol. That might taste or feel good for a moment, but the come-down can be rough. I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t even have to be drunk for that to happen. (And I like my cocktails, so I try to diminish the after-effects, but… avoid it if you can.) If anyone asks, you’re just not feeling drinky, or you’re cutting back in preparation for the holiday season.

      Remind yourself that the evening will be over eventually. All events end! Even if you’re slogging through, it won’t be an endless slog.

      Are you in a position where you can cut out early? Driving yourself or walking or taking public transportation? Because you can put in a good two hours or so and then leave your husband to the co-worker accolades and shop talk. I have actually done this– left an event early and, as I was saying goodbye, said to people, “I’m going to head out now and let Hubby bask in your congratulations without me– you can all talk shop now!” Steel yourself so you can say this with a laugh and a smile.

      Can you invite a friend? Someone your husband also likes?

      Good luck! I have been there, and it’s HARD.

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        Don’t drink any alcohol. That might taste or feel good for a moment, but the come-down can be rough. I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t even have to be drunk for that to happen.

        Alcohol is a depressant. So if you’re already depressed or tend towards that, it’s not going to help, it’ll just make you feel worse.

        I agree with Erin, leave early if you can come up with a plausible excuse. If you have to be your husband’s ride home, there’s got to be some way you can get out and come back later to get him.

        1. Shannon*

          Depends. When I was depressed, I drank a lot, because it made me feel good in the moment. Afterwords, yes, I was extra depressed.

    8. Also depressed*

      As someone who’s been depressed for longer than I can remember, I can definitely relate! My partner is a musician so I often go to shows at bars when I’m not really feeling up to it. My advice: a) if you can avoid it, don’t drink alcohol, or get one beer or cider and nurse it over the whole night. b) take two modes of transportation there, so that you can beg off early if you get overwhelmed- just say you’re tired and have to do something in the morning!

      1. april ludgate*

        And if it’s the type of culture where it would seem out of place not to be drinking and you don’t feel like explaining why you’re abstaining (although you can always say you have to drive home, or that you’re a bit of a lightweight, or both) you can order something from the bar that looks like a cocktail but actually isn’t, like a virgin shirley temple or tonic water with a slice of lime. No one will notice the difference.

    9. LCL*

      What works for me in the short term is doing a very hard workout, to the point of exhaustion, a couple of hours before the event. Endorphins and all that. I’m not trying to minimize depression, I know it is much more serious than a workout will fix, but physical activity always helps me as a short term coping mechanism.

    10. Brett*

      Been through some similar situations while I had severe depression.

      Don’t drink alcohol or drink very lightly (bottled beer is good for that, because you can sip on one beer for a long time, just leave about an inch in the bottom and do not really drink it).

      Think ahead of time of questions you would ask random coworkers. You do not need many, but when you end up in conversations you can hold up your entire side of the conversation by just asking questions. If you are in a group of four or more, you don’t have to talk at all, just look at the person talking as they talk. Conversation can be extremely hard when dealing with depression and creating some easy to follow structure can help. I tended to be super chatty when I was depressed, so I used the questions to keep me from talking non-stop and boring someone.

      If you are otherwise an extrovert, use the energy of the room to keep yourself up. Focus on music, dancing if people are dancing, etc. Remember to limit drinking.
      If you are otherwise an introvert, most of the above are already introvert strategies, but make sure you have a spot in the room to retreat too. A specific table that is filled in some way (like with everyone’s jackets on the seats) is good. If there are TVs in the bar, staring at a TV can be a good escape and recharge activity.

    11. LQ*

      I try to prepare 1-2 things to say and practice them. “Puppy did the cutest thing!…30 seconds done…”
      And then I’d have my standard questions ready, “It’s been a while since I’ve seen you what have you been up to?” (whatever opens the door for them to talk)

      I also have a reward waiting at home. And I try to play a kind of internal bingo. Initiate one conversation. Have my phone set to buzz once a minute and use that pocket vibration to remember to plaster a smile on.

      This might sound weird, but personally I stick to one drink or less when I’m really depressed or having serious panic issues. It lets me maintain a much tighter self control.

    12. Harriet Vane Wimsey*

      Old hospice trick if you think you are going to cry- raise your eyeballs up to the ceiling as far as you can. (Like an UP eyeroll, not a side eyeroll.) Used to miraculously stop the tears from flowing.

    13. themmases*

      Avoiding events is a really common impulse when you’re depressed. It can help a lot to do things that you enjoy that will give you some energy and positive reinforcement.

      On the day of, it can help to bolster yourself with good things or even things that will just make you feel physically different and reset things a bit. The ones that work great on me are: going for a 10-minute walk or run (even if it is just getting off the bus sooner/parking farther away), deep breathing, cold water. You can splash cold water on your face or, if you’re wearing makeup you don’t want to ruin, run it over the insides of your wrists. Be kind to yourself during the day by picking easy, Friday-type work, getting your favorite coffee treat, or doing some other little thing that you like.

      During the event, focus on the parts of it that you like. Gravitate towards the friends you like best and the people you remember that you know you can make feel welcome. Make sure you get your favorite thing this place serves. If a particular conversation feels hard for some reason, you’re the host– give yourself permission to excuse yourself in the name of making the rounds. If there’s a particular part of the evening that is most important to your partner, focus on that and forgive yourself for only being at 70% for the other stuff. People at a party are drinking, talking to a bunch of different people coming and going, and generally not focused on your behavior and affect.

      Promise yourself something special for after the party or the next morning. It can help you remember that this thing is really temporary if you have something specific to look forward to, rather than a general “is it over yet” feeling.

    14. beachlover*

      I suffer from chronic depression, and have been had some very bad episodes in the past. But, I have found that sometimes just being around people having a good time, does give me a lift for a small period of time. Have you spoken with your husband? I would explain to him that you are game to try, but if you are feeling overwhelmed you many have to leave early.

    15. Anonasaurus Rex*

      Wow. Thank you for some many great little tricks and suggestions! I am trying the ice-cold water thing as I type (usually a tea drinker) , and it’s actually working. Here’s my game plan: 1. ugly cry in the car on the way home from work to get it out. 2. take a bath, and quick workout if there’s time. 3. go to the thing, get some sort of fruity, frothy, frozen monstrosity and ask for it not too strong, along with a glass of water. Bring tissues to claim allergies if needed. Sip the adult milkshake thing all night very slowly. 4. Ask people lots of questions to keep them talking, without having to talk much. 5. If there are games or darts, play that, because less talking/outward focus.

      Thank you everyone, not only for the suggestions, but for not making me feel like some sort of ungrateful misanthropic parade-raining monster of a spouse for asking :) I feel like I can handle it now, and I’m rewarding myself with a book, coffee, and my bed all day tomorrow.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Good idea, about purging some tears before the event. I know if I tell myself not to cry, I cry harder. So instead of telling youself not to cry, tell yourself you can curl up in comfy clothes in a comfy spot and cry at home once the event is over. I have actually had this one work for me when dealing with grief/sadnesses. Key part: Keep your promise that you make to yourself. Whatever you end up promising yourself you can do, make sure you actually do it after the event is over.

    16. Rebecca in Dallas*

      Everyone here has good advice, nothing to add except that I hope you feel better soon! Hopefully your husband is understanding and won’t mind you ducking out early.

    17. Artemesia*

      Tough one. Can you create a mission for yourself. For example, are there colleagues of his who are shy or often a bit left out and you could commit to chatting them up and making them feel included? Or is there someone who has done something that interest you e.g. a world traveler and you could decide to glean as much information as possible about traveling to Mongolia or Paris? I find difficult social situations are easier if I have an agenda and work that agenda which forces me to not sit in a corner and suck my thumb, or in your case, weep softly. It is hard when you feel blue — but plotting out WHAT you will do in support of your husband’s big night might help.

  16. Dasha*

    Those who work from home full time, do you love it or does it start to drive you crazy after a while? I’ve only worked from home a few days here and there but I’m interested to hear full time WFH experiences. Also, do you think you save time and money by working from home? Is it pretty substantial?

    1. Gillian*

      I don’t work at home full time, but my husband does. We’re saving a lot on gas and wear on his car, but our electricity bills have gone up – especially in the summer when we were running the a/c all day instead of programming it to turn on right before we got home. I’ve noticed that since he’s not around people much anymore that as soon as I walk in the door he’s got a lot to say and is more in need of human interaction than he used to be – with many people I think this could probably be solved with doing some work from home from a coffee shop, but his security settings on the network make that more difficult than it’s worth for him usually.

      1. MA in OH*

        I’ve been working from home since graduating with my master’s in May while job searching (I’m incredibly lucky, I was able to work long distance in the job I held before I went back to school) but honestly I hate it. It makes me hate being at our home that I love, it makes me far more jealous of my husband who now has a job outside the home and gets to interact with people every day, and it makes me very very testy with our dog. I have a separate office and I try to keep my work solely in that room, but the feeling just bleeds into the entire atmosphere of our home. I think it completely depends on your personality, but I am very much looking forward to a change in my employment circumstances.

      2. Afiendishthingy*

        I can never get my VPN to work worth a damn on a coffee shop signal. I also find “room full of strangers” has the opposite effect on my stress levels than “coworkers to joke and vent to”. I can do maybe a day per week of WFH in the morning, then do a client visit or two in the afternoon. Any more than that I start feeling isolated.

    2. katamia*

      I was working from home before my current job, and I LOVED it. My current office is basically paradise (no dress code, can wear headphones, no meetings, nice coworkers), but I hate having to be there at a certain time. I hate how every little thing (it’s an absurdly quiet office, so I’m talking stuff like people walking quietly past me to get to the bathroom or the occasional chair squeak) breaks my concentration. I believe people here when they say that they work better in offices than they do at home, but, honestly, that hasn’t been my experience at all. I work so much better when I can control my environment.

      So yeah, once I’ve finished working my notice period here, I think I’m going to go back to working from home and trying to make that a more stable income. I’ve never mathed it out because in the past my WFH schedule varied from week to week, but I’ve done WFH in Los Angeles and the DC area (same job, they didn’t care if I moved), so I’m quite confident that I’ve saved both time and money by working from home. I’m also a lot more efficient when I’m working from home because my work is entirely deadline-driven and I can really maximize my efficiency by working when I’m at my best–I have some minor health issues (nothing that would be even close to covered by the ADA or anything) that make working 8+ hours straight through difficult, and by breaking up the work I’m more efficient and also feel like I do a much better job because I can more closely match my work times with my “on” times.

      That said, yeah, personal interaction is an issue sometimes. However, I have enough friends in enough time zones who are on IM that I can almost always find someone to chat with for a bit when I want some conversation. My need for social interaction is pretty low, so IM/social media/making my lazy dog pay attention to me is typically enough for me. If you’re strongly extraverted, that will probably be more of an issue for you than it is for me.

    3. Carmen Sandiego JD*

      I do a combo of WFH/in person at the office.

      WFH: It’s nice and quiet and I don’t have to spend money nor 1 hr commuting. Also, I can cook myself healthier lunches and I just got a pet fish so I don’t feel so alone at home. I also do at least 2-3 group activities a week to get out of the apt, or take a lunch break by walking to the local library.

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        I’ve been working from home for uh… way too long now. Not that it sucks, it doesn’t. Like Carmen, I don’t miss the one hour commute one way (if I was lucky), office politics etc. As someone posted last weekend about working in their PJs, yes, it’s awesome to not have to worry about clothes/hair/makeup. But unlike Carmen, I did not for the longest time add group activities or try to find ways to get out of the house. I didn’t realise that I was missing human interaction that much because I write e-mails, I talk on the phone, I work onsite with people… but I have been missing it.

        One of the weird things about working from home has been with my car. Because I make myself too available, and I plan my errands/shopping so I do it all in one go, I don’t drive as much as other people. This causes a problem in the winter with my car’s battery running down, so that I have to plug it in to keep it charged. It seems newer cars are designed to need to be driven at least every other day (or every third day) and cannot sit as long as my last car could. I have a wide selection of various battery rechargers/trickle chargers that I have tried over the years. I know it’s not just me as I’ve had the conversation with the tow truck drivers about how this is a common thing, especially among seniors.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Parasitic loads. Cars have more and more things that are on, even though the car is off. These things suck the battery right down. A friend, whose opinion I trust, said that running a car at 50 mph for 20 minutes should bring a good battery right back up to fully charged. I have found that reference point handy.

          In the dead of winter, when I try to start my car I make sure everything- radio/heat/lights/wipers – are off to give that poor battery a good chance to spin things over. It seems to help.

          1. Dynamic Beige*

            Yep. Before I turn the car off, I turn off the radio, fan, heat is on “cool” (which is also weird because apparently the A/C is always running, even when the button is not pushed). I’ve been told that doesn’t really matter but I do it anyway. The only thing that works is having it on a trickle charger whenever it’s parked in the garage.

    4. HappyWriter*

      I’ve worked from home full-time for about 4 years. I personally love it, but it does have some drawbacks to be aware of. First, it can be very isolating. Most days I only have contact with others (clients, coworkers) via email, if that. So, as Gillian noted, I have a greater need for interaction when my husband gets home. I also make an effort to schedule lunch dates or even just get out to run errands during the day from time to time to break things up. Otherwise I can get a little stir crazy. It’s a similar thing when it comes to the weekends – I have to get out of the house for a while–unlike my husband, who would probably be pretty happy to chill on the couch.

      It’s also easy to get caught up working all hours of the day. My tips for avoiding that are to 1) set regular hours for yourself; 2) have a separate office you can close the door to and step away from at the end of the day; and 3) get up, get showered & dress and “go to work” each day–don’t start work in your PJs.

      In terms of savings, the biggest place I notice it is with gas. I fill up about 1/2 as much as I used to. I don’t know how much time I really save, because I’m now the one who handles all the “have to do during the day stuff” (like calling repair guys, taking the cars to the shop, etc.) since I have a lot more flexibility. But overall I love it and wouldn’t change a thing!

    5. AFT123*

      Both :)

      I’ve been full time WFH for about 2 years now, and I truly miss some aspects of being in an office – making new (local) friends, getting “ready” for the day, interesting scenery, physically being in a different space for work vs. home, etc. That being said, I do like WFH a lot, and I’ve found it’s become a “golden handcuffs” situation. I would LOVE a mixed bag of having an office to go to a few days a week. 2 would be perfect.

      Saving time and money – absolutely substantial. My husband is also WFH and he put 300 miles on his car last year, total. I only own leisure clothes right now. I’ve no doubt saves tons of money and time being WHF.

    6. Sammie*

      I’ve been WFH full time for about 5 months. The first few months were quite an adjustment. My big “aha” moment was when I figured out that listening to podcasts would make be feel less alone.

    7. Treena*

      My husband worked from home for 4+ years. We’d always had a spare bedroom for his office in the 3 places we’ve lived. Recently moved to a market where it’s actually cheaper to rent a separate office instead of having an extra bedroom, so he leaves the house now.

      The main thing he’s noticed is that he’s lost a ton of weight already in 3 months. When he was home, he could make any meals anytime, so he wouldn’t pack his lunch/snacks as he used to. This led to way more snacking than he realized. So now that he’s packing and bringing the food out of the house, he’s eating way less and not missing it at all. So for someone starting to work from home, I would prepare your work-day meals ahead of time, just like normal, and stick to that.

    8. Searching*

      I’ve been working from home full-time for over 10 years now. My company has really improved its technical support over time so the computer & phone set-ups are now equivalent to being in an office. In general I love it, but I have been going through some “hermit-like” periods where I don’t seem to leave the house for days and I have to shake myself out of it. Yes, it can be socially isolating. But I am an introvert, so I don’t need constant social stimulation to stay energized (it would actually exhaust me). I don’t miss the constant griping and gossip of some past office environments and actually have to be very patient when my husband brings home his office stories that fall into that category. But there is a danger of getting out of touch with what’s going on in the organization unless you make it a point to call colleagues on a regular basis to shoot the breeze.

      I do save time and money – no commute, no dry cleaning, fewer lunches out. When the kids were younger, I saved on after-school programs – they were old enough to entertain themselves and I was close enough to deal with anything that needed dealing with. A separate office or room that serves as dedicated work space is essential. I keep the thermostat low in the winter so I don’t heat the entire house when I’m just in my home office (one room) all day. Warm sweaters (and if it gets really cold, a space heater) keep me comfy (and your brain works better when it’s colder). My office is in the basement, so in the summer I stay pretty cool. When I started doing this, I tried to claim a deduction on our taxes for having part of our home dedicated to work, but the calculations didn’t really add up to any savings there.

      I love that logistics like deliveries and home service calls are a breeze to handle. I know it’s common advice to get showered and dressed just as if you were going to the office but I do often start work in my PJs – it’s nice to break away from the desk and do some of my thinking in the shower! I also have a minor health issue going on that makes me very thankful I work from home when it flares up.

      All in all I love working from home. I would definitely miss it if my next gig is in a more traditional work environment.

    9. The Other Dasha*

      – I typically never comment, however, every time your comments pop up I freak out because we have the same name, and that never happens. Nice to meet another Dasha!
      -I don’t work from home but currently live 0.3mi away from my workplace. It’s amazing on gas as I tend to fill up every 6 weeks average. I think the decreased commute definitely decreases the general wear and tear on your vehicle.

  17. SweetTeapots*

    How do you ask what the seniority level of a role is? I have ‘manager’ in my title, but I don’t manage anyone, and am interviewing for a job whose position is ‘specialist’. I feel like on a resume, this would possibly look like a step down? So I’d like to know what the expectation is but don’t know how to properly word my question-any suggestions?

    1. CrazyCatLady*

      I feel like titles don’t matter that much because they’re so different from company to company and industry to industry. And if you’re not managing people, that would come up during an interview anyway, I think.

    2. John*

      I would focus on the level of responsibility you will have, which is what will affect future employment opportunities. Will the new job represent a progression for you? If it clearly does, you should be able to craft your resume to reflect that.

    4. coyote_fan*

      In my opinion a specialist is someone who has the same responsibility as a manager, but without people.

    5. Ashley*

      I was just promoted from a “specialist” to a “manager” and I do not have anyone reporting to me under either title. So in my role (I’m in Marketing), the specialist is one step down from manager.

      1. Toriew*

        I also work in marketing where the usual progression of titles is Coordinator > Specialist > Manager, and am currently a ‘Senior Coordinator’. I manage a team of people! It’s funny how these things can vary. I’d advise just looking at the responsibilities and maybe also the number of years experience they are asking for.

  18. Hlyssande*

    It’s a good Friday so far. My supervisor brought us bagels from Brueggers this morning, AND the Caribou on the first floor has chai nog lattes (I am in so much trouble – easy access!).

    This morning’s conference call regarding global standardization in maintenance for a specific application I work with (allows people to have customer and vendor accounts created in the database) went much better than expected. The guy chosen to lead the team sometimes has a bit of an ego problem but it went very well and we got some great stuff done. I am pleased!

    Now if only I didn’t have to work Sundays for two go lives in less than a month, I’d be happy. I had to cancel my fun Halloween plans so I could be on and ready to go at 6:15 last Sunday. Note: I am not actually tech support. I’m one of three lead front end admins for this application so we do all the user-side smoke testing. On the plus side, my two backups are doing all of the testing in our last staging environment as a learning experience so I don’t have to be as involved.

    1. Bye Academia*

      I’m so jealous of your Caribou. I’m from the midwest, but I live on the east coast now and I miss it. Dunkin is a great addition to my coffee diet, but it’s not the same.

      1. Hlyssande*

        I’m a transplant to MN so discovering Caribou was a joy. My hometown in IL has a really great small chain owned by someone who I used to attend church with and Caribou is just as good.

        But holy crap this chai nog thing. I’m going to have to hold myself to a strict budget of one a week.

      2. Elizabeth the Ginger*

        I’m jealous of the Brueggers. The bagels in my city are mostly terrible – the west coast doesn’t seem to understand how to bagel. They just sell O-shaped rolls and think they’re bagels.

        1. Bye Academia*

          I’m spoiled by the east coast now, because that’s how I feel about Brueggers. I do like the sandwiches they make with their mediocre bagels, though.

      3. The Strand*

        Ditto on the Caribou. “Oh, she’s got to be in the Midwest,” saith I, when I read your missive. Sigh, sniff, sniff (wipes tear).
        The cafeteria here stocks Caribou roast for drip coffee, but it’s not the same.

      4. OriginalEmma*

        I’m the opposite. I’m in the Midwest now and can’t stand the strong, burnt coffee that Caribou has. I miss my Dunkin!

        1. afiendishthingy*

          Honestly, I have lived in Minnesota, I live in DunkinDonutsville now, but honestly for fast food chain coffee I’m all about the Newman’s Own at McDonald’s.

          But also, my favorite local coffee shops here all have New Harvest, which is a local roasting company that beats all the rest.

    3. Witty Nickname*

      I was so excited this week because Starbucks finally got eggnog! I’m an iced chai nog latte person, myself (not a hot drink drinker in general). This is my favorite time of year!

  19. bassclefchick*

    On a completely different topic – the largest (probably only) manufacturing plant just announced they will be closing this location by 2017 and moving operations to Chicago and Iowa. I temped there for a few years and I really liked it there. I feel bad for the employees because our city just can’t handle that big a flood to the labor force. Our mayor said that the city and the state will help retrain and replace them all, but he’s living in a dream world. Can’t happen. We’ll see what happens. No one who works there is really surprised by the closing (or shouldn’t be), but it’s still a sad, sad day.

    My hint for you – is anyone else hungry for a hot dog?

      1. bassclefchick*

        Yup, it’s really sad that a company that’s been here for over 100 years is now leaving. And the news stories have also been talking about how the local food banks and other charities are going to take a huge hit because all the volunteer work and donations from the company will go away too.

    2. June*

      I totally feel for your city, but as a Chicagoan I can tell you that this kind of economic boost is just what we need. Though hopefully money will be heading to people and public works, and not anyone’s pocket (yeah right).

      2. Creag an Tuire*

        I’m likewise torn between sympathy for the affected workers, happiness for my own city, and schadenfreude for all the awkward coughing that must be happening on the Tribune editorial board.

    3. My Hot Dog Has a First Name*

      So… yeah. Chicago also just got ConAgra who for some reason thinks that all its financial troubles will magically melt away by leaving a cheaper city like Omaha to move to a higher COL one like Chicago. Meaning, all the execs have mansions on the north shore. So, I feel ya. Lots of people getting pink slips out this way. But as a Chicagoland native, I’m glad for them. However, does Oscar Meyer know how loyal Chicagoans are to Vienna? No real Chicagoan is going to deign to eat an Oscar Meyer hot dog. I mean, come on.

      1. bassclefchick*

        Cute user name! And you’re totally correct about Vienna. Chicagoans are fiercely loyal! (I’m looking at you, Sears Tower and Marshall Field’s!)

    4. Kelly*

      It’s a big loss to the city. Oscar Meyer employed fewer people – down to around 1000 after a round of layoffs earlier in the year, but it will be a blow to charitable giving. My late uncle worked there for over 30 years before he retired around 15 years ago.

      1. Lo Flo*

        I worked there from 88-95. They moved our department to San Antonio with the other parent company’s subsidaries payroll and HR departments.

    7. Clever Name*

      Wow. ConAgra is leaving Omaha? That’s my hometown. What a blow. I agree, Omaha is such an affordable place. I’m sure there was some shady dealing to get them to leave.

      1. Clever Name*

        Just read they want to cut $200 million. I wonder how much their ceo and other executives get paid?

  20. eunice*

    The new temp addresses everyone as “love.”

    as in “Thank you, love.”

    How can I get her to stop!!!???

    1. TheIntern*

      Is she from the South? I’d say approach it as a workplace culture concern, maybe framing it as something that could be construed as sexual harassment, although that seems a bit harsh.

      1. T3k*

        I was thinking she’s British actually. They’re known to use “love” in this way, not the South. In the South, more common words are “hun” “miss” etc.

    2. LizB*

      Unless you’re her manager, I don’t think you can get her to stop doing it to everyone… but you could ask her to stop doing it to you, with something along the lines of “Hey, I really prefer not to be called by nicknames, could you please call me Eunice? Thank you!”

      1. Nom d' Pixel*

        I think this is the best approach. If it is said nicely, it could really be doing her a favor. She might not realize how unprofessional it is.

        1. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

          I don’t find it unprofessional and it would not bother me to be called that. I think this is one of those office sterilization tactics where people go a bit to far.

          I prefer not to be called hun, therefore everyone must feel the same way and I do and I must stop this person from sexually harassing others!

          What?

          No. You prefer not to be called hun. That’s fine. Ask her to stop. She stops calling you hun. There is no problem with her calling others that.

    3. Lily in NYC*

      Honestly, it depends how long she’ll be there. If it’s a short-term assignment, I’d just let it go. But I admit I’m someone who kind of likes it when people call me by an endearment, even at work.

    4. Mickey Q*

      I hate hate hate sweetie, honey, and young lady. I will cut anyone other than my husband who calls me this.

    5. misspiggy*

      We are in the Midlands of Britain, where men regularly call each other ‘love’ and ‘me duck’ at work. Magically makes the whole thing rather sweet when it’s equal-opportunity endearment.

    6. SophiaB*

      Is it possible she’s still learning everyone’s names and struggling a little bit? Could you help her with that at all?

      I’m not sure how, beyond making sure she’s been introduced to people. Maybe go out of your way if someone comes up to the desk to say ‘Oh, hi Wakeen, have you met Jane? She’s our new temp. Jane, Wakeen works with the Chocolate Teapots department.’

  21. TheIntern*

    Hi all, I am finishing my Master’s to graduate in April and am thinking I’ll start applying to jobs in the next month or so. I am in an internship 16 hrs/week until April. Completing the internship is required for my MSW so there is not much flexibility. How do I address this with employers? Do I put it in the cover letter? Or is it crazy to expect employers to consider a flex schedule while I work and intern?

    1. Reverend(ish)*

      Are you applying to jobs that require an MSW? If so the cover letter would be a good place. I had to complete an internship before starting my counseling residency, and they were flexible on start date because they understood the requirements for the degree. I can’t speak to the flex schedule since my internship was a mandatory 40 hr/week though.

      1. Reverend(ish)*

        Oh you can also list the internship as a contract position on the resume if you have a set end date. I had horrible luck job hunting until I realized designating my internship and residency as contract positions would eliminate the appearance of job hopping with the bonus of emphasizing working while in school.

        1. Sunshine Brite*

          She should list it as an internship – yes include the dates, but every employer who she might have for an MSW will be looking for which internships were completed.

    2. SirTechSpec*

      I’d say most full-time jobs, and even some part-time jobs, aren’t really set up for you to have another job, particularly if your internship has to be done during business hours. I would make sure that end date is listed with that job on your resume, and probably mention in your cover letter that that will be your earliest start date. Since many hiring processes take a while anyway, that may not be a dealbreaker.

      However, if this is common in your field, people may be more accommodating. Are you looking to go into social work specifically?

    3. Sunshine Brite*

      Wait, are you looking for post-graduation jobs starting in a month or so? Because you won’t graduate and be eligible for jobs until April which is when the internship is done so there shouldn’t be a flex concern? Most MSW jobs require the degree completed and many require a temp license until all the documents can be submitted for the full license which can’t be obtained until after graduation – at least in my state.

      1. TheIntern*

        I am interested in macro level social work, not therapy/counseling so I technically do not have to have my license completed for these types of positions, ie. program director. Since it takes quite a long time to job search I’d like to start sooner especially given the smaller range of possibilities in macro level social work.

        1. Sunshine Brite*

          That is interesting. A number of my social work friends need their non-clinical independent licenses for their macro work so I wouldn’t be surprised if you do come across that in job postings for people running programs.

          1. Sunshine Brite*

            That said, I would address your expected grad school end and discuss in detail the expectations at the interview since prospective employers would know you’re doing an internship.

  22. Student2*

    I’m a student, and I can’t seem to get an answer to this from my professors. Since I’m going to be graduating six months late (December 2016 instead of June 2016), I’ve decided to study abroad for my last semester. The deadline for applying to study abroad programs is in January, and I’ve narrowed my choices down to three or four programs in the UK and Ireland.

    I’ve fallen in love with the two smaller towns. They’re in rural areas, and reviews of their study abroad programs are stellar. However, I’ve also noted some excellent internship and part-time work opportunities in London (also a great program). Unfortunately, the transit fares from these rural areas to London are quite expensive, and I’d rather not spend all my savings on train passes (maybe any UK readers know of cheaper options?)

    I know that it’s not guaranteed for me to land one of these awesome internships, but I don’t know how to handle this. If I attend a rural program and apply for the internships, I’m worried they’ll dismiss me because of my location. If I attend the London program and don’t get any of the internships, I’m worried I’ll be upset that I missed out on one of my first-choice rural programs.

    Can I contact these organizations now to get more info about their internships and the chances of me landing a position with them? Can I ask them about location issues? They won’t be starting until next September, so I don’t want to seem over-eager or desperate.

    Just a side note: Since this will be my last semester of school, I would love to just stay in the UK or Ireland afterwards working or interning. I have already ironed out proper visas and whatnot to make that work, but I would have to land a job or internship at the latest January 1st of 2017.

      1. Student2*

        I’d be living in London and doing one of the internships and going to school (so everything would be close). But if I chose to study anywhere else, commuting to a London internship would be a hassle. It’s just that the London academic option is not my first choice.

    2. SirTechSpec*

      I would ask yourself about your priorities. Is it really important to you to work/intern during the time you’re abroad, or is it more important to get the most out of your academic experience? Based on the distance, I wouldn’t count on being able to do both. If getting a foot in the door in London is important to you, I’d try to study somewhere closer to London.

      Also, you can usually contact someone to ask for more details about a position, but “what are the chances of me getting it” is not usually something you know until you apply and either get an offer or don’t. You may have more luck asking in forums specific to the area (either geographical or field) you want to go to, and asking how these things tend to go – that might get you an idea of how highly competitive certain internships are, what commuting in that region is like, etc.

      1. Student2*

        Thanks for the tip – I definitely don’t want to send a whiny email asking whether or not I’ll get a position I haven’t even applied to! I didn’t think of going to forums.

    3. Elkay*

      If you’re willing to share the two rural areas people will probably be able to advise better. Commuting into London isn’t unheard of so I doubt it would rule you out (but they may lean towards students at London unis).

        1. Luna*

          Cork would involve a flight every day! Bangor is way far away as is York – if you’re that desperate to intern in London I’d say study there too. If not, start looking at internships nearer where you want to study. From York you’ve got easy accessibility to Leeds and Sheffield but they’re still quite a way away from the city. I personally would focus on the study and not the internship. But that’s just me. Also London is not the epicentre of the country- other cities are just as good.

          1. Student2*

            Thanks! I’ll take a look at opportunities in Leeds and Shefield. And yes, I figured Cork would be a long shot. I’m trying to figure out whether I really want to make work the focus of my study abroad or not…

            1. Luna*

              Sheffield is brilliant, I went to uni there and didn’t leave till I was made redundant. Leeds is great too. Wishing you luck whatever you decide to do!

            2. arvil*

              ah, i’m from Cork and studied there – not such a good commuting option for London yeah :) If you have any questions about living and studying there let me know! Seconding that Sheffield might be a good option to look at – sizeable city but much much more affordable than London.

              1. Student2*

                Cork is actually my first choice in terms of academics – I’d be able to get in a couple of extra classes, like Gaelic studies (which would be awesome). If you don’t mind, I do have questions! How is public transit within the city? Do people speak Irish on a daily basis, or is it more of an educational thing? And are people generally friendly to outsiders?

                1. arvil*

                  Well let me see… Public transport is adequate and fairly reliable – buses serve the surrounding suburbs, running until about 11 at night. Generally pretty affordable too. But the university campus is a 15m walk from the city centre and the whole city is very walkable. If you do look in to going there in more detail, living between the city centre and campus would probably be best rather than going further out to the suburbs. That way you would be able to walk everywhere you need on a daily basis, and just take buses for more out of the way day trips etc.
                  Irish is not spoken on a regular basis at all really – you would need to seek out groups at the university etc. So you won’t just be hearing it around the place, sorry :) It’s taught in schools but most people have a limited proficiency.
                  And yes, people are friendly! Wherever you go, a university setting is always good for meeting new people, but from my own experience of bringing American visitors to Cork they often remark on how welcoming people are.
                  Feel free to ask more questions if anything comes to mind!

                2. Student2*

                  Okay, good to know – I’ll be arranging my own housing. I’m sure I’ll have more specific questions come January (when I apply). Do you have a burner email I could send questions to? (If that’s okay – I promise I won’t bombard you with spam). Mine is justanotheroriginalusername (at) gmail.

                3. arvil*

                  can’t seem to reply directly to you below so this may show out of sequence, but I pinged you an email at the address you gave so you can get in touch if any questions crop up.

        2. mander*

          I don’t know about Bangor or Cork, but York is on the East Coast mainline and also happens to have non-stop service to London King’s Cross with Grand Central rail, which is almost always a heck of a lot cheaper than the other train companies. It’s still about two hours one way, though, so it’s not really practical for commuting each day.

          Check them out: http://www.grandcentralrail.com/

          There’s also the MegaBus, which I’ve heard can be really cheap, but it also takes forever.

          1. Luna*

            York is a minimum of two hours, but it’s really not a feasible commute for someone wanting to intern in London. I live 30 minutes from London on the train and that’s bad enough. The furthest I would go out of London by rail would be Oxford. Plus the rail fares would stack up – it’s not cheap. Megabus is mega cheap but mega crummy. You wouldn’t even be able to drive in every day because York is five hours away by road.

            1. Student2*

              Ugh, okay. I mean, it would only be a one or two day commitment each week. But that does sound rough.

        3. Elkay*

          I wouldn’t call York rural (I don’t know the other two areas) so I’d imagine that internships would be available around there too. Not commutable though.

          1. Student2*

            Yeah, rural is the wrong word. But they’re all much smaller than the city I live in here in the states (about three million).

        4. FiveWheels*

          Unless you have a private helicopter I’d say commuting from any of those places to London is impossible. The UK and Ireland are small compared to the USA but it would be impossible to make that work!

          Cork would open up another can of worms in terms of needing a Euro bank account and I don’t know how visas would work (assuming you don’t have EU citizenship). You might need separate papers for the UK and RoI.

          Also I’m not sure any of those places are “rural” by our standards ;-)

          1. Student2*

            Ha ha a private helicopter would come in handy. Yeah, visas will be a pain – it’s doable, just expensive.

      2. arvil*

        agree that sharing which rural areas you’re mentioning might allow others to advise better :) But as Elkay said, commuting into London isn’t unheard of – there’s a large commuter ‘belt’ around the city. I used to live a 45 minute train ride from the centre of london and most people in my city commuted in for work. Travelling in and out by train can be really expensive at peak times though and trains are really the only option if you’re further out.

        1. Merry and Bright*

          Ah, London commuting! Can’t afford to live near work (super expensive housing), can’t afford to work near home (super low wages).

    4. Tess McGill*

      I commuted into London from Hampshire (70 minutes on the train) for two years. A full time student is eligible for a railcard, saving 34% on all rail travel in the UK. Or, if not a full time student, you can get a 16-25 rail card (same savings). I’m curious to know which rural programs you are interested in … would love to share anything I know about the area (in case I’m familiar). You can also get a Student Oyster Photocard (for the Tube) saving 30%. You can also link your Student rail pass with your student Oyster card and save even more. I loved every minute of London! And every second of my time in England! Good luck!

      1. Student2*

        So how much did you end up spending a month on transportation? I would be a full-time student.

        Bangor is really the only rural option. Cork and York aren’t tiny, but they’re much smaller than what I’m used to here in the states.

        1. Tess McGill*

          Are you talking about Bangor in Wales? Bangor University? That’s not a commutable distance into London either. A five-day-a-week commute into London (from Hampshire) would run about £107 a week, traveling off-peak.

            1. fposte*

              And it’s like a 4-5 hour train ride, as I recall from my days there.

              Short version: you really can’t attend a program in York, Cork, or Bangor and work or intern in London, and it’s quite likely that it would rule you out of consideration if you applied.

              2. Mander*

                Unless you were planning to move to London for the duration of the internship, I’d have to agree.

      2. Tess McGill*

        Oh, just now seeing your three rural areas. Yes, York is not rural. It’s a lovely city. Commuting from York is not unheard of, but honestly, I wouldn’t sign up for that. No way. If you want the jobs in London, then you need to intern in London.

    5. Carrie in Scotland*

      York is NOT rural.

      It has a pretty decent rep, although it’s expensive (it’s a beautiful city, full of cobbled streets, cute shops and old city walls, as well as The York Minster – like a cathedral but not).

      Bangor and Cork I don’t know anything about, but you’d have to stay near them I would think.

      To be honest, everything is so London-centric it is becoming a shortfall of the UK. A country based in 1 city is just asking for trouble.

      1. Student2*

        I guess that’s another question I have: would it make more sense (financially, culturally) to not settle in London? Is it kind of cliche for a US student to study there?

        1. FiveWheels*

          Nothing cliché about London, it’s a great city. It is however very expensive.

          It’s also hardly the only city in the UK. Glasgow, Edinburgh, Belfast, Cardiff, Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham, Birmingham, Liverpool… Plenty of cities to choose from (though obviously many are smaller than your home city).

          1. Student2*

            Originally I had Glasgow and Belfast at the top of my list, but taking into account credit transfer and required courses, they are no longer options unfortunately.

      2. Luna*

        London-centric because this is where the money is and this is where the jobs are. There’s a lot of investment happening in the North though, but the sad fact is London is the place to be. I also do find myself wondering about the commitment to the investment in the North as well, being as everyone wants the North linked to London anyway. If I could find a job up in Sheffield I’d be back there in a heartbeat but London (well, near – we are based just outside) is my home and workplace for now. Because there are simply zero jobs in my field anywhere else in the country. Sucks :/

    6. fposte*

      On another note–it’s *extremely* difficult for a US citizen to acquire a visa to stay in the UK after studying there. Maybe you have a non-US citizenship that changes the process or are in a field where there are employers willing to get that done, but I would not expect to be able to do that.

          1. fposte*

            I don’t know the details, but I’d guess if so, not by a lot. Basically, you’ve got the whole EU in line in front of you.

            That doesn’t mean it never happens, but it’s something that requires strategy and a solid plan on the inside–it’s not strictly voluntary. And they will happily deport you or refuse entry to you–I know a few people who’ve had that happen.

            1. Student2*

              My mom is an Irish citizen (living in the US). Do you know if that would that make any difference? And I hate to ask, but how did deportation work?

              1. fposte*

                That could, if the laws I remember are still in force, make a *huge* difference. Check with an Irish consulate or embassy to see if you’re eligible for foreign-born Irish citizenship via your mother. I think you’ll have to actually get the citizenship, not just be eligible for it, for it to matter, but I’d do it in a heartbeat just for the heck of it. It would open up a world of EU opportunity.

                On deportation, mostly you get caught when doing something else involving officialdom, like a speeding ticket, and of course attempting reentry. If you’re overstaying a visa, no jaunts out of the country, even if it’s just a drive up to Belfast.

                2. FiveWheels*

                  There are no border controls between NI and RoI, in fact there isn’t even a marked border, so that is one trip you can make without papers.

                  If you are eligible for an Irish passport they are processed very quickly, too.

              2. Toriew*

                I’ve been researching this a lot lately because I’d also like to move from the US to the UK or Ireland. Since your mom is an Irish citizen, I believe you can apply for an Irish passport which would make you eligible to work anywhere in the EU! Aren’t you lucky? ;)

                1. Student2*

                  Gah, if I was eligible, I’m sure it would be a long process. Certainly not something that would get taken care of by next August.

                  Tough, tough… even after language and cultural similarities, it’s still hard to move from one country to another.

                2. Treena*

                  I can’t speak to the Irish process, but I did another country’s EU process for getting citizenship through my parent and it was so easy I was literally a citizen before I knew it. As in, walked into the office with the paperwork, and within 30 minutes the guy was congratulating me and I actually said, “Wait, that’s it?” The only thing that hung me up a bit was that I needed my parent’s marriage certificate, and that was a pain to dig up. Other than that, it was maybe 3 months? And that’s for the passport office, which is notorious for being slow. Citizenship was instant and I had a letter stating that same-day.

                  So, if it were me, I would go for the Irish citizenship, study in the smaller places and then the next semester intern wherever you want. Studying abroad in a big city is great, but the experience is wildly different, and many ways better, in a smaller place where it’s easier to integrate. Plus, internships in a smaller city tend to give you more responsibility, since there aren’t droves of them.

              3. QA Lady*

                You should see if that makes you eligible for citizenship. I have a friend who applied for Scottish citizenship by way of having a Scottish father (living in Canada) and now lives permanently in mainland Europe.

        1. misspiggy*

          I think the key thing may be to decide what you want to do afterwards, and research where the best connections for doing that would be of your potential locations. We can help with some of that information if you’re willing to share your field?

          1. Student2*

            Yeah, I’m studying marketing/graphic design (and art history). Ideally I’d be working as a graphic designer in advertising, but I’m flexible.

    7. Wisteria*

      I come from near Bangor. It’s definitely not near to London, either geographically or culturally. To my knowledge there is only one train line for the North Wales coast – the journey is beautiful but takes forever as it stops literally everywhere. Not a viable commute. I’d say your only real option as a big city for internships around there would be Liverpool. It’s also worth remembering that North Wales is hugely different to the South of England. A lot of people I know from that area have rarely even visited London. If you manage the commute, you may struggle more with people understanding your lifestyle.

      1. Student2*

        Okay good to know. I think I’ve figured out that there’s no point in pursuing London-based positions if I’m studying outside London. I like Bangor because it’s small, so it would be something completely new to me. And I’m assuming the difference between Wales and England is like the difference of any two counties.

        1. FiveWheels*

          The difference between Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England is much like the difference between different states. There are also differences within – eg inner city Sheffield isn’t too different from inner city Glasgow, but the extreme Highlands of Scotland are very different.

          The Republic of Ireland is like a very similar place with funny money… So Canada perhaps? And again, culturally, it’s different from the UK in many ways but similar in others, and Cork will have more resemblance to Cardiff than either do to Craggy Island.

          1. Student2*

            Funny money, ha ha. I can’t wait to get over there and check out the differences. It sounds great on paper, but I’m sure I won’t really know until I experience it myself.

  23. Lily in NYC*

    We have a whiteboard outside our dept. where people will sometimes write a random quote or a “this day in history” factoid. I came in this morning and this was written in big letters: MY PEE SMELLS LIKE HAM. I couldn’t decide if I should leave it or erase it. So of course I left it because it made me laugh and it’s still there and I don’t think anyone else has noticed it yet.

  24. LizB*

    I got a job offer on Wednesday! \o/ I’m so excited. This job has better hours, less intense work, great benefits, and pays $5k more than I was making at my previous job. I’m supposed to start on Monday, but I’m waiting on a call or email from my manager with details of where and when to report… I think I’ll give him a call if I haven’t heard from him by noon today. That would be reasonable, right?

    1. Winter is Coming*

      Yes, I think so…it’s Friday, so you run the risk of missing him completely if he decides to cut out early for the weekend. I would call him now if I were you.

      1. LizB*

        I called and left a voicemail. :/ I really hope I hear back… he’s very new to the organization, and seems a little bit disorganized, but I don’t think it’ll be a problem once I start work. Of course, I need to connect with him so I CAN start work…

    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      First: yay!!

      Second: yeah, if there are multiple locations and shifts, sure, otherwise it wouldn’t be unreasonable to go to the front desk and ask for [manager] at 8:45am if you don’t have any other information.

      1. LizB*

        Yeah, the organization is very very big, with about 20 locations in my city, and what I would be doing on Monday would be a day-long HR orientation thing which most likely won’t be located at the tiny branch I’ll be working out of. I don’t know which branch is “headquarters” for HR, though, so I’m not sure where to go! I left a voicemail with my manager, so hopefully I hear back soon.

    3. LizB*

      An update: I couldn’t get in touch with my manager, but I did get ahold of the program supervisor, whose number I also had. Apparently my manager was out on PTO today, which is why I couldn’t reach him. The organization also got some wires crossed on their end, and while they are definitely still offering me the position, they want my start date to be the 23rd (they do two organization-wide new employee HR orientations a month, and that’s the date of the second one). So now I have two weeks to chill, reorganize my apartment, and work on NaNoWriMo before I start work!

      The disorganization on their end is a bit of a red flag, but I’ve worked for disorganized managers and chaotic companies before, and I always manage to find my own ways through the system to get my work done. Everything else about the job still seems fabulous. So, still excited!

      1. Evie*

        It’s great that you were able to get in touch with someone – and congrads on the new job! I’m glad you’re in a position where the two weeks downtime is a yay instead of a nay :) enjoy your surprise holiday!

  25. CrazyCatLady*

    I’m at my wits end with my current job and I think a job offer is probably coming soon … but there were a few yellow flags in the interview. I’m scared that my mental state about my current job will make me jump from frying pan to fire. How do you stay calm and collected and rational and make logical decisions instead of emotional ones while job searching?

    1. John*

      You envision yourself at the new job for 5 years. Will you feel excited to go to work each day? Compare that to how you felt re: your best jobs — would it be a compromise?

    2. Pickles*

      Pretend it’s for someone else! That always works for my end of year self-evals, where I feel like an arrogant jerk talking about how awesome I am (it’s really easy to blow past the required “satisfactory” ranking if you’re motivated). I’m much more likely to write it well and be more honest about what I’ve done, rather than downplaying it.

      Personally, I hate pro and con lists. I can always find the opposite counter, so it just gets deadlocked.

      1. CrazyCatLady*

        Yeah, that’s my problem with pros and cons lists. With my mind, it becomes so complicated because I end up having to weigh each pro and each con based its relative importance to me and then I just feel like … if I have to do this much math just to decide if I should take the job, it’s probably not a good sign.

        I really like your advice about pretending it’s for someone else! (This will help me in interviewing, too!)

        Thank you!

        1. John*

          But what you are things you value most in a job? There have to be a couple factors, right? The person managing you is typically a huge one. What do your instincts say about her/him?

          1. John*

            To add: I was in the frying pan when I jumped into my current role. 15+ years later, it worked out well. I hope that is true for you.

          2. CrazyCatLady*

            See, I have a really hard time trusting my instincts because I’ve worked in really toxic places before and am so scared to do that again. But my impression of him was that he’s a bit narcissistic and he made some comments that just really did not sit well with me (about former employees, about millennials, about when he had to raise his production employees’ wages (that wouldn’t be my job, but the mentality rubbed me the wrong way)).

            The things I value the most are being able to get results, grow, be engaged in the work…

      2. BizzieLizzie*

        what were the yellow flags….
        Was it the work itself, or the culture?

        I’d worry about yellow flags unless there were a lot of positives to outweigh. Unless – perhaps you can see yourself the job say for 2 years, and maybe you know you can deal with the flags for that shorter term.

        1. CrazyCatLady*

          The yellow flags were high turnover in the position (it seemed like mostly the people being fired), some of the comments the CEO made about money (it’s a small/mid-sized company which is why the CEO was even involved in interviewing) and just a general vibe. One example was that when he asked how much I currently made, and I told him, he followed it with “Is money the most important thing to you?” I said that it’s not the MOST important. He followed with “You don’t have kids or anything like that?” … and that made me uncomfortable because my bills or financial obligations are not the basis for my salary – my worth is.

          The work sounds awesome and I’d LOVE to work for this specific company. I’m currently in a very very very small, practically microscopic company, so working at this other place would be helpful for getting into an even larger company in the future, and it’s going back to an industry I love.

          I don’t have an offer yet, so this may all be moot!

          1. Golden Yeti*

            Ehhhhhhhh, I dunno. That sounds more than a little sketchy to me, too.

            “Is money the most important thing to you” could be taken either as “…cause you won’t be making much here” or “because we have great benefits, even though we’re low on cash.”

            The question about kids is also a red flag for me. I’m in a similar genre of job as you (microscopic and toxic), and our hiring manager always asks personal questions like that in interviews. Knowing what I know now (that it’s sketchy if not illegal), it creeps me out for applicants.

            Plus the turnover. Not good.

            If it’s still a smallish company, you’d probably be working somewhat closely with the CEO, so it’s a good thing that you’re getting a read on him now. If you get an offer, I’d at least suggest tons of questions about anything that concerns you. Don’t hold anything back.

            In my view, it will come down to this: If the new job turns out to be toxic, will the experience in that industry make that toxicity worthwhile down the road? Or, are you really at a point where you can’t tolerate toxicity anymore, despite any future payoff?

            Without knowing your history/the field/etc., though, if it were me, I’d probably turn it down–just because it reeks too similarly to the environment I know now.

            1. Ad Astra*

              “You don’t have kids or anything?” is a question that really turns me off. If he’d asked in a way that sounded like he was trying to get to know me, I might not worry. But in this case, it sounds more like he’s hoping a childless/child free employee will accept a lower wage or work crazier hours. Or both.

          2. The Strand*

            Great advice below from the Yeti. I think the “kids” comment is more of a red flag than a yellow one.

          3. Not So NewReader*

            His questions reflect the things he thinks are important. These must be the things he thinks are important.

    3. T3k*

      Perhaps make a list of pros and cons for each and try to keep each point objective like “x benefits at company A, y benefits at company B” and then only write down the really egregious emotional things that’s a deal breaker where you are. This can help you narrow down why you’re really looking to leave and if you spot that at the other company, you know to avoid it or, at the very least, ask about it.

    4. Adams*

      This is me right now, too! I’ve actually got the job offer and will be speaking to the manager today about some further questions…. I worry I’m jumping from one bad job to another and worried about both my mental state and employment history. In my case, bad job = a lateral move, little opportunity for advancement or growth, and not feeling like my job has any impact. Look forward to hearing what others suggest.

    2. some1*

      My first professional job was in municipal govt and I left it to work in the private sector. There are definitely some differences that I experienced.

      My insurance was more expensive and not as many paid holidays.

      My govt job was Union, so people went to the Union steward if they had problems with their boss, etc, it took some getting used to be working with people who saw HR as their personal advocate.

      I never saw anyone get fired from govt, so it took some getting used to have a coworker be fired. Also, people resign much more often than they did in the govt dept I worked for – it wasn’t unusual for a significant amount of people to spend their whole career there.

      My first job after the govt job had only two people in the company that were POC, and that took some getting used to. I was used to more diversity in govt.

  27. John*

    Are auto-play ads ruining anyone else’s experience at this site? This week they’ve been pervasive. It’s really distracting when I try to read the blog, which I really enjoy.

    1. afiendishthingy*

      yeah they’re especially bad this week :( Just put Adblock Chrome add-on on my work computer though and that fixes it.

    3. Kelly L.*

      Mine were off the charts early in the week (sometimes crashing the actual computer, not just the browser), and then they’ve really calmed down for me in the last day or so.

  28. T3k*

    How does one continue to go to a job they don’t particularly enjoy, but it’s not bad enough to outright quit while job hunting? I really wish I could straight out quit because it feels so unfulfilling and the pay only covers some bills, but of course if I just quit with nothing lined up it looks bad, but I feel my job searching isn’t going anywhere anyways.

    1. Sascha*

      Focus on the positives of the current job, and remind yourself that doing a good job is in your best interest for the next one, so you can get a good reference. I wish you good luck in finding a new one! I’ve been there – everything in me just wanted to quit but I needed the money and the health benefits.

    2. MAB*

      When I was at that point I just searched, and searched and searched. It took me 6 months of half hearted looking and 2 months of really looking to get my first interview. Beef up your resume, really customize the cover letters, and practice for the interview.

      But to keep in your job set mini goals. Like this week I will get X report out. I want to get y chart to the boss by Tuesday. That was the only way I got through it.

    3. Going 'Nony Today*

      My relative did this. Could not stand going to work another day and as a result has now been unemployed for 4 months. No job in site. AND the field they work in is plush with jobs right now.

      I strongly encourage you to use your current job as motivation to get out. The job market is getting better, but there is no guarantee. I know how you feel. Keep searching and you;ll be so happy when you get that new job.

      Good luck!

    4. Terra*

      Find something else that makes you happy. Take vacation time if you have it. Make a plan to reward yourself for getting through the week or the task or whatever. It’s basically the same as getting yourself to go the the gym or eat healthy or whatever other unpleasant things you do because you have to.

      1. T3k*

        Unfortunately, I don’t get vacation time, per se. I’m hourly with no benefits whatsoever (woo) so while I could request time off, it means I don’t get paid. I am working on crunching numbers though to try and take a day or 2 every month off (like every other Friday or something) because I am feeling worn down from constantly working as the few days I have taken off were for non-leisure things, like doctor appointments, car, etc.

    5. Sunflower*

      Now is the time you really need to amp up your job searching/networking if you haven’t already. Nothing is worse than getting to the point where you can’t physically fathom another day at work and you’ve got no leads out there. Use your hate of your current job to fuel your search. I used to long for the moment I got to leave work for the day, not just because I got to leave but I got to go home and look for new jobs. Have you set job search goals for yourself? Like apply to X amount of jobs per week. Spend X time networking? Also make mental notes at your job of things you still like, things you hate and things you’d like to see in a new workplace.

      Also make sure to take care of yourself out of work.

      1. T3k*

        Do you have any advice on networking? I’m a very introverted person and not really fond of going up to people and trying to connect on a business level.

        1. Dynamic Beige*

          There are a lot of articles and tips to read if you google “tips for networking when you’re an introvert” or something along those lines. The main problem with networking is that you have to commit to do it — even if you don’t like it or it makes you uncomfortable. It’s like joining a gym, you’re not going to get in better shape if you don’t go.

          One of the best things I’ve found in terms of networking is something called Speed Networking. It’s the same idea as speed dating — a limited number of people sit down and you meet one person at a time for 3 minutes, the bell rings and one half of the room gets up and moves one chair over. Wash, rinse, repeat. The thing that’s good about it is that it removes the “who do I talk to?” thing when you’re staring at a crowd of people and you’re dealing with one person at a time plus, it’s only 3 minutes. Anyone can get through 3 minutes, even if it’s just listening to the other person talk about themselves. I meet more people at something like that because I’m forced to than any of the giant crowd of people style.

          So reach out to people you know, former classmates, previous colleagues/mentors. Let them know you’re looking for a new job and see if anyone has some leads. That’s the lowest pressure kind of networking there is.

        2. misspiggy*

          Ask questions – most people love to be quizzed about themselves, and you’ll quickly find out those that do and don’t respond well. Once you have several conversations and find out what people’s previous jobs were, or what their siblings or other halves do, then you have some potential openings to say, ‘ooh, I’d be really interested to find out more about that line of work – do you suppose so and so would mind if I sent them an email?’

        3. Sunflower*

          Second these responses- also just send some emails out to people you already know, Let them know you’re looking and to keep an eye out for positions. My university does a lot of online networking/chat and that is definitely easier than in person

    6. Anx*

      I know it can be really obnoxious to use the ‘at least you have a job’ response to any work complaints, but if you’re really committed to staying with a job you’re not excited about, maybe focusing on that could help.

      I’ve never had a work problem that was as bad as unemployment (in part because I’ve never had a super stressful job or a horrible catastrophe).

      Of course, if it’s not paying the bills, that makes it hard. I actually love my job, but I hate my pay. The hourly rate is fine, but because of the nature of the work, there are a lot of holidays. And breaks. And slow periods. So, all unpaid time off. I’m in a weird place where I work very part-time over the course of a year, but during the busier seasons feel very busy because I work part-time and have a volunteer job, so I don’t really get the benefits of a reduced schedule. Still, I think about how lucky I am not to have a mean boss anymore or to be making some money (even when it’s not enough). Most importantly, I feel more validated. I live in the US and I found it very difficult to feel like a full human being when I didn’t have a paycheck at all because of the stigma of unemployment.

    7. Master Bean Counter*

      View it as a chance to develop character. Prove to yourself you can shine even when things are stacked against you.
      Or view it as building a great reference down the road. Find something positive and focus on that.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This can help. Create your own challenges for the day or the week. Focus on what it takes to accomplish the synthetic challenge. That can look like, “I usually do ten widgets a day. Let me see if I can find ways to bump up to eleven widgets a day on a regular basis.” Or you can make it a personal accomplishment. Let’s say I am really bad a names, this is awkward because I work with a TON of people. So I could make my challenge to learn x number of names a day and KEEP the name and face locked in my memory bank.

        Yes, it does build character if you target little goals like this and it will change you over time if you keep doing these random challenges, they have cumulative effect.

      1. T3k*

        That’s a really big incentive actually. I was miserable when I was unemployed trying to find my first job, and miserable between the first and second (first job laid me off unexpectedly).

  29. afiendishthingy*

    Thanks everyone who replied last open thread to my comment on low productivity related in part to ADHD/anxiety and very low productivity last month related to depression on top of that. I ended up putting it all out there for my supervisor, along with a suggestion that I submit my productivity numbers to her weekly rather than monthly because I do better with shorter deadlines and more accountability. She was very understanding and asked if I needed help accessing any resources, agreed to my plan, and offered more suggestions on more billable activities (our billing is pretty strictly regulated by the state funding source and pretty much everyone in our role has trouble at times meeting quotas).

    My other new productivity plan: I set a (very quiet) alarm on my phone and snooze it every time it goes off, and give myself a star if I’m on task when it goes off. Then I get a break when I get at least 4 stars in a row. Can you tell my job involves writing behavior plans for young kids? It’s helping though!

    Anyway, thanks y’all, some of your comments kind of scared the crap out of me, but I appreciate the real talk :)

    1. Dawn*

      “My other new productivity plan: I set a (very quiet) alarm on my phone and snooze it every time it goes off, and give myself a star if I’m on task when it goes off. Then I get a break when I get at least 4 stars in a row.”

      I’m totally stealing this!

          1. afiendishthingy*

            I should save all these for performance eval time. It’s actually more or less the plan I made up to increase in-seat/quiet voice/following directions in a young kid with autism… admittedly it didn’t work with him but I have some ideas for modifications :)

            1. Evie*

              That sounds really interesting. I’m working as a special ed teachers assistant at the moment and have been trying to figure out where to go with it next. Would it be possible for me to ask you some questions about your job?

  30. Going 'Nony Today*

    Ever get hired after a terrible interview?

    I had an internal (groan) interview recently and it went horribly! I sucked! I was not on my A game. I feel terrible and sorry for myself and blah blah blah poor me.

    I’ll get over it. Maybe I’ll still get the offer, ha!

    1. CrazyCatLady*

      I haven’t gotten hired after terrible interviews … but I’ve been hired after some very mediocre ones.

    2. Solidus Pilcrow*

      I thought I did bad to mediocre on the interviews for my current job. :) Maybe it’s a perception thing? I know I never feel like I’ve lived up to expectations. Does make for a pleasant surprise when I’m proven wrong.

    3. Amy M.*

      I was a hiring manager for many years, and in one interview I just wanted to tell the woman to STOP TAKING already, it was the most cumbersome interview ever and it did not go well. HOWEVER, while the interview was bad, the applicant was not, I loved her to pieces actually and hired her without doing a second interview (unheard of for my company). While I have moved on from that company, she is still there (five years later) and in the position I was in when I hired her. A good interviewer can usually sense when someone is off their game and can still see the potential in someone. I wish you luck!

    4. Kelly L.*

      Yep! I always thought I aced interviews and didn’t get the job, and then would get the job when I thought I bombed.

    6. Harriet*

      The worst interview of my life was an internal interview. It was a disaster. I came out of it wanting to go straight to my supervisor and apologise for being so awful and reflecting badly on her (she’d pushed for me to apply for job I was being interviewed for).

      I got the job! I think they had probably decided to hire me in advance, but I have never been so shocked as when I was told.

      Still took me a while to not feel mortal embarrassment whenever I saw my interviewers though…

  31. Anon-erThanEver*

    So tell me your stories about probationary periods being extended?

    Preferably happy endings but I suppose a balance might be wise :-/

    1. ACA*

      At my last job, my probationary period got extended an additional two months (making it six months total) because I hadn’t learned one of the major job tasks yet. There had been literally no opportunity for me to learn that task, since it only happened at certain times of the year, so it wasn’t from lack of effort on my part. I don’t know why they didn’t just make my probationary period six months to start with! (In retrospect, this was a good indicator of the general dysfunction within the office, and it’s one of the reasons I’m very glad to be gone.)

    2. Jennifer*

      I sadly don’t have a happy ending. They extended mine for a month and then I found/figured out within a week or two that they were going to can me anyway so that they could hire someone else. It pretty much smacked of “we don’t like two things about you and we want to hire someone else with your paycheck,” and I was the newest one to be hired full time so there you go.

      A friend of mine was on a PIP in a job and then got off of it…but was eventually brutally fired anyway.

      So sadly, you know how this is going to go. I’m so sorry.

    3. katamia*

      The company I’m leaving routinely extends probationary periods. The person who was training me before I quit (again, not because of the notice period–it turned out to be a really bad fit for other reasons) mentioned having their probationary period extended, and they’re still working there happily. I think other coworkers have had their probationary periods extended, too.

      Basically, my understanding is that if they like you and your work but you’re not quite up to speed, they’ll extend the probationary period to give you more time to adjust–it’s a pretty intense workload, and there’s extremely high turnover. They give people raises when the probationary period comes to an end, so it’s cheaper for them to extend the probationary period for someone who’s not quite there yet than it is to let someone who needs more time go and try to hire someone else. (Actually, it’s probably cheaper for them to do that even without the raise element, but I don’t know how much their hiring really costs.)

      So there’s a happy-ish description of a company where having your probationary period extended isn’t a horrible thing that means job loss is impending.

    4. brightstar*

      I had to extend an employee’s probationary period. Even though I’d communicated regularly that there were numerous small problems, they were surprised. I sent them weekly updates during this time on how they were improving, where room for improvement still existed. They ended up becoming a permanent employee at the end of the extended probation since they had showed significant improvement.

    5. Lindsay J*

      My ex’s probationary period was extended fo his first job in his field.

      I was very concerned because it seemed like they extended it for issues that could be a huge deal – he is a corrections officer and they were concerned that he wasn’t confident or authoritative enough when dealing with the inmates. I assumed that that perception would be the kiss of death for him.

      However, he successfully made it through the extended probation period and is still there 2 years later.

      The one thing that I kept on reminding him of and focusing on myself when I got concerned was that they *had* extended the probation period. They could have just fired him at the end of the initial period but they didn’t do that. They believed he could succeed in the role and just needed him to show them that he was capable of doing so.

    6. Blackberries*

      My friend is now extremely happy at her new employer after being fired unfairly for a BS PIP. She makes more money, is less stressed, and is grateful she was fired. I hope for you a similar fate.

  32. Bonnie*

    I live in a mid-size East Coast city that’s not known for it’s crazy housing prices (ie not DC or Boston). I currently make $41k and am looking to make $50-60k in my next job if I leave my current job for another in the same East Coast city.

    However, I’m currently interviewing for a job right outside San Francisco (could/would probably live in the suburbs). Aside from benefits and all other factors, what would be a comparable salary in SF? The place I’m interviewing is a large non-profit. I don’t want to ask for too much but I also don’t want to starve! I’m not hell-bent on moving so I don’t need to take the job if it pays way too little. Any advice would be appreciated! I’ve done the cost of living calculators but San Francisco seems like it’s own beast.

    1. Biff*

      Bonnie, I work in the Bay Area and I live in East Bay.

      If you are looking to make 50-60 in a reasonable city, you need to make about 120k – 130k in the Bay.

      My salary is 80k and it breaks down like this:
      32k goes to taxes. (You get a lot of services and many beautiful parks, but you pay for it.)
      36k goes to rent
      I have about 12k to pay for food, clothes, gas, doctor visits and anything else I may want to purchase.

      I just got hit with a 300-500 dollar rent increase (depending on how long my next lease is and how soon I sign it.) This will make for 1k rent increase inside one year.

      It’s very expensive here.

        1. Biff*

          Bonnie — so many people come here thinking that 70, 80, or 90k is a lot of money, and it is. Just not here. Some months back someone said they’d moved here for 65k, and we were directing them to social services. Now, people certainly can and do live here on that, but it’s a rough existence and it doesn’t sound like what you are looking for.

      2. CA Admin*

        I also live in the East Bay.

        A few things about your breakdown–36k to rent means that you’re likely not sharing an apartment, if you’re willing to take on roommates, then you can probably go as low as 15k per year on rent. Also, if you live in an older building, it’ll be rent controlled and increases will be kept to about ~2% per year.

        Transit is pretty good, so you don’t necessarily need a car, depending on where you live. That can be a savings.

        I’ve never lived anywhere else as an adult, but I’d put the estimate at closer to 90k-100k to compare with 50-60k in a smaller city.

        1. Biff*

          CA, I both agree and disagree.

          I based the rent on a studio in a reputable, well-reviewed complex that would be able to do a long-distance lease. It is certainly feasible to go lower, but I assume that Bonnie might have to do the site-unseen thing, and probably won’t have roomies to start. So hence the maybe higher estimate. Also, I’ve never seen rent-controlled housing outside of the city proper or without very low income caps.

          Transit can be good, unless you work in San Mateo County. Transbay transit, with the exception of the BART tunnel, is terrible and SamTrans is awful, in my experience. While you don’t need a car in some areas, I feel like the coverage is patchy enough that not having a car isn’t feasible the way it is on the east coast.

          I’ve noticed that people who have lived here for about 5 years tend to downplay how expensive it is to live here. My previous boss, who had lived her twenty-five years was really, really disconnected from the high prices. I’m not saying you are doing that, but it’s something I’ve noticed and I think Bonnie should be aware of. Whomever is interviewer her/making an offer might have a skewed view of how expensive it is.

          1. CA Admin*

            That’s a good point. I live in Oakland and have almost always lived in older, rent-controlled buildings because I got bitten by the rent hikes while living in Emeryville in college.

            The older building with roommates situation isn’t cheap, but it can help reduce the expense. That said, it’s easier to move into a new building by yourself if you’re contemplating a cross-country move.

            Alameda County actually has really good transbay options outside BART. I use a transbay bus that runs commuter hours from my neighborhood directly into downtown SF. There’s also the ferry, if you live in certain parts of Oakland, Alameda, or Marin.

            I don’t want to make it sound like it’s not expense here–it’s really really expensive (most of that is housing). That said, there are ways to lessen its impact and the salaries tend to be higher to compensate. And you get to live in the gorgeous Bay Area! So that’s a plus too.

    2. Gene*

      Old data point, but on point.

      In 1989, between my job, my (then) wife’s SSDI, and my part-time sailing instruction and charter skipper work, we grossed ~$85K. We were on the list for subsidized housing in the City of San Mateo.

  33. MAB*

    May I rant about my employee? I posted a few weeks back about how I was gathering information on her bullying, public shaming and generally pissing off everyone around her. Well it finally came to head this week, causing me to get to the point that I had to bring my boss up to speed and figure out a solution to reduce the arguments and general displeasure on that shift.

    In interviewing my employee it has really come out that she doesn’t have any idea how she comes off. She is rude, unkind and was mismanaged prior to me. I am putting her in a completely different role for 5-6 weeks and watch how the interacts with everyone in the department. I am willing to giver her another chance in a new role that doesn’t entail supervising a single person, but only if she is under my eye at all times. It seems liek my boss is just hoping she quits, and so do I honestly.

    1. Biff*

      I’m glad you are dealing with a problem employee. My department seems to like fobbing them off on other departments after dressing them up to look good.

      However, if she was mismanaged and had no idea she was being taken so poorly…. please give her a chance to turn over a new leaf.

    2. Hlyssande*

      I’m sure you’ve already done this, but.. have you sat her down and specifically explained what the issue is and why you’re moving her into a different role at this time? And what she needs to do to keep her job?

      1. MAB*

        She knows exactly that she is getting moved to get away from the arguments and infighting of that shift. Both myself and my coworker (who manages the other employees involved in this) realize that my employee is not 100% the problem and we want to see what will happen when she is moved. If the fighting continues it is a larger problem that he needs to address.

        I made it clear during our talk that I expect employees to treat people the way they want to be treated at all times and gave some coaching on how to address situations that come up in a non-confrontational way. I really think this was caused by my predecessor not trusting his employees to do their jobs. I am a pretty hands off manager and I expect people doing a specialty job to have the ability to do their jobs with minimal oversight (a pipe dream at times I know). This move is the first step in a PIP.

        1. Biff*

          Further question — are you talking to the other people who were contributors? Even if one employee is 60% of the problem, and the other two are only 20% of the problem (each) you need to make sure they know they aren’t getting off scotch-free.

    3. some1*

      “In interviewing my employee it has really come out that she doesn’t have any idea how she comes off”

      Doesn’t know or doesn’t care?

      1. MAB*

        Doesn’t know. She clearly cares but she seems clueless to the fact that the manor she is addressing issues that come up during her shift is rude and hurtful.

        1. Windchime*

          Unfortunately I think it’s really tough for people like this to change. We had a woman in our department who was extremely rude to people. She had a habit of laughing nervously about *everything*, and would make sarcastic, rude comments under her breath. She was counseled extensively about it all, including the laughter because people she was in meetings with thought she was laughing at them (which, I guess she was since she would laugh inappropriately at pretty much everything that was said).

          She finally quit on her own, but she just could not (would not?) change her habits of laughing and making sarcastic comments.

  34. Delyssia*

    My boss recently asked what I want in terms of growth and new opportunities in my current job. The problem is that I don’t see what I want as being at all likely to happen. In short, I do teapot proposals, and my ideal would be to move up to where I’m managing/supervising team members as a major piece of what I do and maintaining involvement in some of our bigger teapot proposals. Given the current structure of our department, I don’t really see that happening.

    Should I tell my boss that I want to manage a team anyway, even though I really doubt that such a thing is in the cards? Should I throw in some other things that I think would be interesting challenges, even though they’re less likely to convince me to stay long term?

    1. Wonder Woman*

      I would tell your boss that, depending on the kind of boss they are. My old boss always said that his job was to help his employees succeed, and was genuinely happy for folks who moved on to higher level positions within the company. It could be that your boss would know of an opportunity in another department that might be right for you. Of course, if he/she is the type to do anything to keep you in your current pigeonhole…then maybe not.

    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      It sounds like you have a good boss who is encouraging you, so why not both? Tell them that what you really want is X, but you think you would be OK if you could do Y instead for now, since you know that X isn’t how things are currently done.

  35. cuppa*

    I’m waiting to see if I get an offer for a job that would have a large part of it as WFH (probably 60-80%). Right at this moment, I would have to work from my dining room table or couch, as I’m having some family stay in my guest room for a month or two.
    Anyways, I know Alison sometimes works from her couch and I’m sure others don’t have traditional office spaces, and I’m curious how you make it work. Do you have a lap desk, move an office chair to your dining table? Where do you keep your office things? I was thinking about getting a rolling cart from IKEA or something.

    Any tips?

    1. AFT123*

      Honestly, I have a desk and an office room, but 90% of the time I work from bed or the couch… It’s just more physically comfortable for me! I keep my office things on the desk, but before I had the desk, office things were in a box in the closet. I don’t use office stuff much as I try to be totally paperless, and I use my cell phone most of the time.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Yep. I rarely use my home office. Instead, I usually end up on migrating between the dining table and couch with my laptop. (Honestly, I’m not sure why we even have a home office. No one seems to use it.)

          1. Dynamic Beige*

            I bought a small 4′ folding table at Costco. There’s just enough overhang before the legs hit the couch so that it works.

    2. GlassKey*

      Hi, cuppa–I do a lot of work from home and before I was able to convert a bedroom into a home office I faced a similar problem. I found it essential to keep all my work in one spot, otherwise things got lost in different rooms. So a rolling cart is an excellent idea because it physically compartmentalizes “work stuff” (and you can hide it away in another room on your days off so you don’t think about it). I don’t know if you have a spare closet but I have also seen examples of how people have converted those into workspaces as well. I personally don’t work well on couches, guess it’s too relaxing for me and my brain turns off :) so I prefer the formal chair/table set-up with a lamp. There are also some cool desks out there that attach to a wall and then fold up when you are done, have you seen those? At any rate, I find it best at the end of the week to put all work things out of sight. Hope that helps!

        1. Dynamic Beige*

          In my home office — that I used for several years before moving to the couch — I put almost everything on wheels so that I could move it around easily by myself to clean. I built these wooden platforms and put rubber wheels on the bottom (the small 1″ kind) for the filing cabinet and this other cabinet I use for office supplies. I built the desks (tables, really) with metal baker’s shelving and big 5″ wheels on the bottom. I have to learn to break my addiction to TV listening and start using all that again, the room is kind of small though. I keep meaning to renovate my basement into some space but… one day. Even if I did move into the basement, I would have to keep all my books/paper upstairs because it can get damp down there.

    3. edj3*

      I normally don’t work from home but do occasionally.

      On those days, assuming my 100% W@H husband doesn’t have a lot of conference calls, I’ll put my laptop on a TB tray stand next to my desk so that I have an L shape desk area. I got the tray at Bed, Bath & Beyond. If he’s talking, talking, talking–then I set up in the kitchen at the bar.

    4. Anx*

      If you make a decent amount of money, I’d go with a full ergonomic desk/office situation, and a backup couch situation. Sometimes it’s good to move around.

      We have an office, but I never use it because it’s so cramped in there and the cat walks on the desk. I’m disgusted by litter-toes and I hate trying to work with him there. It’s hard to vacuum in there because it’s such a tight space. Honestly, I wish we had a 1 BR and put the money into better furniture, because I feel like that whole room is dead space.

      I’d do whatever makes you comfortable. The single hardest part of working to me is getting past the physical discomfort of sitting down a lot (this is probably why despite being quite bookish, I hated school when I got older…studying was physically painful).

      I just use a laptop on a wobbly tv try, but I am pretty broke.

    5. Elizabeth West*

      I live alone and there isn’t any need for a private space, so it’s the sofa all the way (it’s actually a futon, which I hate, but it has a lot of space to spread out). I have two lap desks with legs–one is kind of a breakfast tray, but it tilts up so you can use it for a laptop or to read. When I’m at home, my personal computer is on its usual lap desk so I can stream music and my work laptop is on the tray.

      I have a desk in the front room, but I don’t use it for working. It holds my all-in-one printer and personal files, etc. My job is 99.9% digital, so I rarely have to print anything ever, even at the office. I used to have the desk in the back bedroom, but I’ve been moving stuff around. If I didn’t live alone, I’d make an office space somewhere I could shut the door. There’s nothing wrong with working on the sofa, if that’s where you’re most comfortable doing it and you can manage distractions. For example, when I’m doing it, the TV stays off.

    6. cuppa*

      Thank you, everyone. I know it seems like a really simple thing, but this has been really helpful!

    7. Windchime*

      I have a beautiful, big oak desk that I am in the process of selling. It just never felt comfortable. I have an actual desktop computer for work-at-home days because I like having two monitors and a real keyboard for programming. Instead of the desk, I’ve got the computer set up on a big folding table, like the kind you’d see at a church potluck. It’s the perfect height and there are no drawers to get in the way. This is where I work most of the time when I’m working at home. Other times, I’ll sit at the dining room table with my laptop or if the weather is nice, out on the patio. I don’t feel particularly comfortable working on the sofa or the bed; I’m afraid I’d find myself watching cat videos or doing Facebook. But that’s just me.

  36. Erin*

    The question I’m posing is: How does your office handle phone coverage? Are there tips for not dumping it all on one person?

    My situation: At one of my jobs, we have a receptionist who is primarily in charge of covering phones for not only our office, but our other office’s calls are routed to us as well. It is a high volume of calls. I cover her lunch break and answer phones for an hour a day. She leaves early on Mondays when another admin covers for that chunk of time. When the receptionist calls out, as she has done today, the other admin and I have to split our time to cover the phones; she does the morning, and I do the lunch hour and remaining afternoon.

    When I (or anyone) am covering phones it is next to impossible to get actual work done. Besides having the majority of what I need at my own desk, it is very difficult to accomplish work when having to pick up the phone every other minute. Some of my work is creative – coming up with marketing and advertising strategies, for instance – and answering the phone cuts into that concentration and the flow I have going when I’m writing/editing.

    Fortunately, my higher ups recognize this and allow me to read a book or surf my phone or otherwise ONLY answer the phones when covering, which I appreciate. But, it is annoying to have to fall behind in my other work every single time this happens. Right now I have more on my plate than usual and none of it is going to get done today.

    Additionally, with the nature of this particular industry, other than us admins, the other employees basically make their own hours and are in and out of the office at will; there isn’t really anyone else to split coverage with other than us three.

    How do other people handle phone coverage?

    1. Elizabeth West*

      Our admins trade off lunch coverage. We each do one hour a week but cover for each other’s coverage when people are on holiday, ill, etc. We have a second receptionist at the other building on campus, and she is first coverage when the primary receptionist is out of the office for the day. Then whoever does lunch that day covers her.

      At Exjob, I had no backup until the part-time marketing person came in at 11:30. If I was sick, I would come in and then leave when he got there. Sometimes he’d call in and I would have to stay at work. :(

    2. Jennifer*

      I can’t get any work done while answering phones, unless it can be done in 30 seconds or less. If they want me to answer phones, that is clearly their priority more than my getting work done is, so…there you go.

      We theoretically have a phone bank run by student employees with one supervisor. However, every time they’re short staffed (which is FREQUENTLY and pretty much every single day of winter) we have to do phone backup and then the rest of the day is wasted for actual work.

      1. Tris Prior*

        Agree with this – I’m in a similar situation in my job regarding tasks that are falling behind because I have to provide customer service coverage (not phones though). I’m coming to realize that there isn’t really a solution; it’s sort of a your-job-sucks-and-isn’t-going-to-change thing. Oddly, accepting this has been rather freeing.

        The only thing I would suggest, if you’re not doing this already, is always informing the higher ups that if you are covering phones, you cannot simultaneously work on higher-end stuff that requires focus and thought. Since my bosses are the ones saying that I may not work on creative work until all customers have been taken care of (and that I am to immediately drop the creative work if a customer request comes in), I have pointed out, each time, that if that’s how they want me to prioritize work, that means deadlines are going to get blown. (Not sure why managers don’t realize this sort of thing…. but in my experience they do not.)

    3. some1*

      The only way I have seen it work successfully is to assign people to a rotating schedule. Asking for volunteers means getting the same people who become resentful because they are the only ones stepping up.

    4. T3k*

      At my first job, which was heavily phone and email based conversations, we alternated between phone calls. Like I’d answer the first call that comes through, then the next employee would answer the second call, then back to me. However, this still isn’t an effective way unless you have 3-4 people to cycle through because, as you pointed out, it still breaks up concentration on what you’re trying to work on.

  37. Sally Sparrow*

    I’m having issues with my workload at work. Everyone around me is talking about how they are so busy but I have next to nothing to do. (They are also much more senior to me.) Every few days, usually toward the end of the day, I go around to my 3 supervisors and ask if they have anything for me with a general PSA of I have nothing to do. But I feel annoying asking so frequently or so often. Especially when during our last meeting, it was stated that I needed work but then no one gave me anything. But I feel bad, because at least half of my day is spent twiddling my thumbs on the internet.

    Is there a better way to approach this besides asking constantly for things to do? I’m trying to find stuff to do on my own, but I’m an admin/assistant so it is difficult to seek out work that isn’t given to me.

    1. June*

      Can you ask for specific projects? Is there anything you want to learn more about? Maybe posing it that way can lead to both a more consistent workflow and skills/career advancement.

    2. cuppa*

      One thing I did for my staff that was helpful was make a list ahead of time. I put it on my door, and it said “Looking for something to do?” and had a list of about 10-15 things that could be worked on. So, maybe you could ask or work with your manager to come of with a list of tasks or projects that can be worked on when you need something to do so you don’t have to ask them every time.

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        That is a great idea. Provided you don’t work in an office where all your time has to be billable which automatically cancels things like this out *grumble*

        I would also suggest, OP, that you ask at the beginning of the day. “Hey, Colleague, I was looking at my schedule and I should be able to get my TPS reporting done by noon and was wondering if there was anything I could help you out with today?” Yes, you might have to make it something stupid/menial/boring/rote but if there isn’t a list on the door of things your manager would like to have done, well, many hands make light work.

        I don’t know what you do, but you could also always make your own project — provided your manager is OK with that. If you’re in marketing, new campaign ideas for your company/largest client. If there’s some process or procedure that you think could be done differently, work on that.

      2. Ad Astra*

        I love this! One of my previous managers had a general “What to do when you have nothing to work on” file for our two-person department, and it was so helpful.

    3. asl*

      Can you get approval to take courses that would help you in your job trajectory? There’s a ton of free online courses out there, and if you were able to pitch it to your supervisors in a way that showed them how the courses would add to your skillset, maybe you wouldn’t feel guilty about all of your downtime. And, it’ll beef up your skills and resume if you ever decide to move on to another job.

    4. Jennifer*

      Make work of your own to do or “look busy.” I’ve run into trouble asking for work too much and you’re probably right at that point now. Maybe look for ways you can read about your industry or…I dunno, notice something nobody else is doing?

    5. Jenniy*

      *disclaimer:totally off topic reply*

      *second disclaimer: poster “Sally sparrow” will laugh, and know that this is not offensive, but funny*

      “Life is short, and you are hot”

      <3 a fellow whovian

    6. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      1) Don’t assume that those people complaining about being busy really are busy. My general experience is that those people who have time to stand around complaining about being busy are more so doing it to appear busy/hard working than actually being so.

      2) Do be careful asking for work, it can backfire.

      3) Talk to others in your role who are complaining about being busy, ask if there is anything you can support them with. I highly recommend saying “support” and not “help” too because in my experience people get defensive when you ask if they need help with their work.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Who was at your last meeting (you mention it here) that said to give you work? Can you go back to that person and let them know nothing has changed?

  38. Windchime*

    Less than a year ago, one of our team members was promoted to Manager of our team. She had many years of management experience from past jobs. In the time she has held this position, she has put two bad performers on a PIP (and they eventually quit rather than change their ways) and let a 3rd under-performer go. At the same time, our team has grown by about 5 members and thus far they are all GREAT. (One person hasn’t started yet, but I have no reason to think he’ll be anything other than awesome, based on his interview and his references).

    It’s amazing what a difference an involved, experienced manager can make.

      2. Windchime*

        She is not on AAM. I have referred her here before but it seems that she would already have the Alison Stamp of Approval(tm) because she pretty much manages the way that AAM advises.

    4. Dynamic Beige*

      Maybe there is a reason for Boss’ Day after all…

      Congrats on landing one of the good ones!

    5. Mirilla*

      That’s incredible! Great management makes a huge difference. It’s one of the reasons I want to leave my current job. It sounds like you have a great one.

  39. AvonLady Barksdale*

    I had to go to my boss about a peer this week, and… UGH. I share a junior staffer, “Mollie”, with “Hyacinth”– and Hyacinth has ZERO respect for my time or Mollie’s. (Or anyone else’s, for that matter.) On Monday, Hyacinth called my co-worker and asked her to pull Mollie out of my client meeting (!!!) to work on something for her. (My co-worker said absolutely not.) Hyacinth also missed two of our daily meetings in which we discuss everyone’s projects, including what Mollie is working on– and she simply does not care about any projects but her own. This isn’t the first time she’s tried to pull people away from my projects because of her “emergencies”– and quite frankly, I’m pissed because when similar “emergencies” have happened to me, I’ve either taken care of it myself (doing tasks that officially go to Mollie) or sought out the answers from a better source rather than disrupt Mollie’s schedule and try to take her away from Hyacinth’s projects. The ironic thing is that if Hyacinth bothered to come to our daily meetings, she could have said, “Hey, I could really use Mollie’s help today, can we shift some things around?” and I would have done it.

    So after the Monday incident and the missed meetings, I spoke to my boss. Did he have a solution? No, or at least he didn’t share it with me, but he listened to me, so I’m hoping he deals with it. If she weren’t my peer, I would probably get on her at least about missing the meetings, but the way we’re structured, she and I are equals. I’m also now pissed all over again because Mollie asked on Tuesday if she could have today off. I said yes, and if anything comes up I’ll work around it, but Hyacinth said no– even though Hyacinth could totally handle all of the project work today and Mollie could have had a freaking day off.

    I have learned through this whole thing that unless I am completely on the same page with someone, I hate sharing a team. I would rather be in charge or defer to someone else, because at least then I know exactly how to operate. Any recommendations on how to deal with this in a way that doesn’t make it seem like I think I’m Hyacinth’s manager? Or, heaven forbid, her junior?

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Oh bloody hell. I feel your pain. I too hate sharing junior staffers, which is a situation that never used to come up in my line of work but now often does because clients keep tightening budgets.

      The short-term easy but morally distasteful “solution,” which sadly happens far too often, is that both supervisors treat the junior as if she is 100% theirs, leading to a burned-out junior who will quit as soon as she can find something better.

      The best thing I think you can do is meet with Hyacinth and get on the same page with her. “I’m frustrated because I’m not getting enough of Mollie’s time, but I don’t want to solve this problem by making her work late all the time. What can we do about this?”

      In this situation, if I were Mollie’s official boss, I would lay down the law and say, “I’m happy for her to help you with the XYZ project on Tuesdays, but I absolutely have to have her for client calls every Monday at 2, and she needs to be able to take her allotment of PTO days.” It sounds like Hyacinth is her boss, though, in which case you might need to concede more to her needs and then go to your own boss if your needs are not being met. “The situation with sharing Mollie is leaving me with not enough support, because Mollie is so often tied up with the XYZ project.” Then it’s your manager’s problem to find another solution, whether that is establishing boundaries with Hyacinth or perhaps getting you more help from someone else.

  40. FD*

    I have a phone interview Monday! I’m excited, but really nervous too. It’s a company I’ve researched, and have heard good things about. I got to talk to someone who held the role I’m applying for (at a different company). It almost certainly pays more than what I’m getting now and would get me out of a situation that’s deteriorated at my current company.

    One challenge is that it’s an hour and a half away. We’d always planned to move, so relocating is on the radar, but I’m not sure how to handle the in between period. Any thoughts or suggestions? And any good vibes you’d like to send me on my interview would be welcome!

    1. Erin*

      If you and your partner are open to moving don’t worry about the commute too much. I myself am looking into listening to audiobooks/podcasts during my commute to make it more bearable.

  41. Sassy AAE*

    My best friend and roommate got a job in her field! She’s a history major with tentative plans for grad school, but she just accepted a position at a law office as a digital archivist. It’s part time, but there’s opportunity to grow! I helped her write her resume and cover letter using stuff I learned from this website. I’m so happy for her, she was getting discouraged about finding a post-grad job with her degree. (She’s the research type, not teaching, so it’s even more dire.)

    I know this is just a stepping stone, but she’s really excited to actually work in something she enjoys!

  42. Holly*

    The uncomfortable words from the IT Guy have ceased! I didn’t tell him off, but I think all my awkward beat-pauses before talking to him whenever he said it may have made him rethink himself. Hurray!

    Meanwhile, a question on expected dress codes. I’m helping my company run a huge conference we’re hosting, and I’ll be working 12-13 hour days (2 days total.) Is a suit jacket the entire time necessary? I’ll be in a nice skirt and tucked in blouse each day, but the jacket too? And would it be unprofessional to wear nice flats instead of heels? I worry 13 hours in heels might lead to limping everywhere, which will look…well, awful.

    1. lulu*

      Can you have both options on site? Like you show up with a jacket but take it off if it looks ok based on what other people are doing. Show up in heels and bring a pair of flats hoping you can wear them. I would definitely wear the flats if I was expected to be on my feet for that long.

    2. TB*

      At the last conference I went to, one of the people running it was wearing track shoes. I think professional looking flats (or even semi-pro) are absolutely fine.

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        Someone I know used to bring a scooter for large events in Vegas.

        Yes, wear your comfortable shoes. If I had a silver dollar for every time I heard someone onsite complaining about their feet/blisters/back/shin splints from running around all day… I could buy a new pair of shoes. If you’re not sure, just keep your good shoes under the desk in a bag so you can pop them on if you need to.

        And the blazer? If it’s too hot, take it off. You may want it though, because ballrooms tend to run on the chilly side.

    3. cuppa*

      I would wear flats. I found some nice black patent flats with a wedge heel and those have become my go-to “conference shoes”. I even wore them to an interview where I knew I would be doing a lot of walking, so there are definitely nice flats that will work with a suit.
      I made the mistake once of thinking I could handle heels for a whole conference, and boy, was I sorry. I ended up wearing a pair of ballet flats that didn’t quite go with my outfits for the rest of the conference because my feet were in so much pain. I might wear heels for a specific event, but I would never plan to wear heels all day to a conference ever again (and I regularly wear heels at work with no issues).

    4. K.*

      I always wore flats to trade shows at my old job – it was lots of standing and a bit of manual labor to get the booth in order, and flats just made more sense. One time, one of my colleagues wore pointy stilettos on the first day of a conference/trade show and ran out afterward to buy a pair of flats to wear the rest of the time because her feet were all torn up.

    5. AFT123*

      Girl, wear your flats!! As for the jacket, I suppose that is more specific to your environment, but I’d guess it will be fine to take it off. If you’re worried about it, would a lighter-weight knit blazer work? Something without a lining and with a little stretch, that you can maybe push the sleeves up? With something sleeveless underneath, that could be comfy enough for the whole day.

      Side note – I just got some pointed-toe loafers from Target (They are the “Holly”) and they are just the best.

    6. FiveWheels*

      It depends on your industry norms but I work in a very conservative law firm and I have never once worn a skirt or heels to the office, client meetings, or court. I wear a dark suit, shirt or blouse, and a variety of flats. Suit and shirt is every bit add comfortable as jeans and a t-shirt.

      For jackets, I think it’s appropriate to take them off during most sit down meetings and if it’s very warm. So long as you have a suit made of climate /air con appropriate material, you should be fine.

      No to heels!

    7. Elizabeth West*

      Yay! It’s nice when problems self-correct. :)

      A nice pair of flats are not unprofessional at all. If you’re going to be on your feet all day, people who wore heels would probalby wish they did the same. :)

    8. Stephanie*

      Flats! But get good supportive ones. For that much standing, uncomfortable, unsupportive flats would be almost as rough as heels

  43. Meganly*

    I’m nearing the end of my rope with a technical writer that I am training. To start off, I am more than willing to admit that I suck at training and I should not have been given this duty, but taking it was the only way to get full-time status so I am doing my best. Right now, my best isn’t enough and I’m starting to feel like I’m going nuts.
    I’ve walked Trainee through each step, I’ve given him checklists, I’ve given him emailed instructions with organized bullet lists, I’ve answered about 40 emails a day with questions about things that were in the walkthroughs/checklists/bullet lists, and I don’t know what else I can do. Only a small portion of what I team him seems to stick! We had a 15 email back-and-forth exchange yesterday about what file name to use, which is well documented (he even used a screenshot of the checklist to argue with me!) but he didn’t get what I was trying to say at all. So, I would love some advice on how to squeeze a massive amount of information and standards into someone who seems information-resistant.
    This also seems to be a really common trope with all of our new hires, and I feel like it can’t be that we are always hiring people who are just unable to learn! I was at the interview for this trainee and he came across as very intelligent and a quick learner, but it really seems like that’s not the case. Any advice on how to get across massive amounts of information/standards in general?

    1. Karowen*

      I have no advice, but massive amounts of commiseration. I’ll definitely be keeping an eye on this!

    2. Dawn*

      How’s your overall documentation? Do you have a training document, or a series of documents, that is handed to a new hire on day 1 and used as a reference document from that day forward? Do you have formal documentation of all policies and procedures or do those just live in people’s heads?

      Get your documentation straight and make comprehensive training manuals from those. It’ll help a hundredfold- and yeah it’s a time sink but it’ll pay off in dividends when you don’t have to deal with situations like this one!

      1. katamia*

        This. Our company has a wiki, but when I was being trained and getting feedback on my work I was constantly hearing “Oh, this isn’t on the wiki, but it’s a house rule.” So frustrating. I did start my own house rule file pretty early on, but…argh.

      2. Meganly*

        We actually have almost everything formally documented and searchable on our standards knowledge base. It’s many many articles, some about specific standards, some more high-level process. The first day the trainee was here I showed him the knowledge base and walked him through how to use it/search through it. I also gave him a list of links to the most important articles, organized by type of standard in order of importance. His first task was to read through all of them.

    3. Meg Murry*

      Rather than emailing back and forth, could you just block off some time to spend with him? Ask him to keep a list of all his questions, and then periodically you can meet and clear all the questions in person at once?

      Are the checklists and bullet point lists all electronic? Maybe he needs to print them and put them in a binder so he can write his own notes on them and tape flag them? Or maybe you need to show him how to take screen shots so he can make his own documentation/cheat sheets? I learn best by making my own documentation, or making edits that work the way my own brain works to someone else’s documentation.

      Can you sit next to him while he goes through a cheat sheet/document to see if he’s getting hung up on something that isn’t there, or if he’s just gotten into the bad habit of asking you rather than reading the f***ing manual! Along those lines, can you be not so responsive by email so he has to try by himself first? “Sorry, I’m going to be plugging away at something that requires all my thought processes for the next few hours, so I won’t be checking email. Look at your checklists if you get stuck, and I’ll check in with you at 1:30”

      2. Meganly*

        Interesting! I never considered suggesting he make his own documentation! I think I will try that! I have been printing the relevant documentation and the two checklists, and encouraged him to print out a separate checklist for each project but he hasn’t. I might try daily meetings; though, when I have answered questions in person, even though he takes notes, he doesn’t retain anything.

        1. Lindsay J*

          I would tell him that he needs to print out and refer to the checklists and that you won’t be dealing with any questions that would be solved by the checklist.

          And if it is something that you know he has notes on, refer him back to his notes. If it’s a question that has come up multiple times tell him he needs to take and notes on it he can refer back to as this is the final time you will be answering that particular question.

          Maybe a sitdown with him to clarify expectations is in order. Explain that he is supposed to be working on becoming self sufficient in the role, and that before he comes to he is expected to try and find the answers to his questions on his own by referring to the checklists, his notes, and the knowledgebase, and that if he finds conflicting information or still needs claification after he has done that that is the point where he should come to you.

    5. Ad Astra*

      Well, how long has it been? If there’s a lot of complicated information involved, and you’ve had similar problems with other new hires, it’s possible that your expectations (and the expectations of your company/department) aren’t realistic.

      1. Meganly*

        We expect full mastery to take about 6 months to a year, but the problem is I have a full workload in addition to training, and simply can’t hand-hold someone for that long. So, we push for semi-autonomy for our simplest projects by the 1-month mark, and a lot of people aren’t hitting that milestone.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          That expectation sounds terribly unrealistic. If the process is so intensely complicated that it takes six months to a year to master it, expecting it in a month is ridiculous. I say this because it’s not just this guy; you indicated that it’s nearly everyone.

          Your company needs to hire/delegate someone to do the hand-holding. Make it that person’s job and make sure they have time to do it. Otherwise, you’re going to keep running into this problem.

          1. Meganly*

            I really wish we could hire someone to be a permanent trainer!! (Hopefully one of the other trainers would volunteer) That would be amazing, but I doubt it will ever happen.
            Also, I was probably unclear… in no way is it expected to fit the full 6 months into one month. It’s more like, instead of creating documents from scratch that match standards (def requires mastery), they are expected to make minor changes to existing docs and push them through the automated approvals, while not messing up file names/making tons of obvious mistakes/sending rude emails to engineers/ignoring edits from trainer review; questions/issues are still expected (but not about things that are clearly explained in the checklist). I guess part of my problem is that I had no issue being autonomous on those projects at two weeks in, so I don’t really get what is difficult about them for the person I’m training.

            1. Evie*

              You’ve probably already got these in your approach, but have you made sure to try and add a rationale as to why some things are done in a certain way where applicable? Because I think the general research is that it helps people take on the steps to the procedure, eg “we always put x before y in the file name because y is a sub section of x”.

              Also getting him to repeat back to you – in his own words! – things you’re explaining to him? “So now we’ve talked about it, what’s your understanding of the server content layout”.

              Also we’ve just been talking about the importance of the ‘model-lead-test’ strategy. Show him how you’d do the thing, give him an example to work through with you guiding, then give him another go on a preferably a slightly different but very similar example and give him feedback. It might be more time consuming initially but the idea is that (hopefully) the training sticks more thoroughly.

              Good luck!

    6. SirTechSpec*

      How much information are you trying to convey, and is it reasonable? Even if you think the total should be reasonable, it may be easier for both of you to process if you prioritize. Separate core principles from specific knowledge and try to highlight the former, e.g. “When I’m stuck on how to do X thing, I always start by looking at the Y document, then check the Z folder if it’s not there. That’s a pattern that I really want you to get used to. Now as to your specific question, it’s explained under paragraph 46 here – basically…”

      It may also be worth thinking about your trainee’s learning style. Getting lots of emails about something that was in a checklist says to me that one of three things is happening:
      1) They’re not clear on which checklist to use for which task.
      2) The checklist is written more as a reminder for experienced people not to skip steps than an explanation of how to actually perform each step (easy to forget when you already know what you’re doing).
      3) They’re not a particularly visual learner, and need to hear something explained out loud, need to do it themselves with you providing guidance, or otherwise need some other kind of instruction before things will really click.

      It’s also possible that this person isn’t going to work out, of course, but I would look carefully at those three options before coming to that conclusion.

      1. SirTechSpec*

        On 3), reading some other comments reminds me that they may be an *especially* visual/spatial learner, and having something on a computer screen just isn’t good enough compared to printing it out and keeping it in a specific location on their desk with a specific color post-it note to remind them. My mother and a few of my colleagues (in IT, mind) are this way.

      2. Meganly*

        Thanks so much, your comment was really helpful! I’m thinking that maybe he learns best when he writes things out himself like a commenter said upthread. He does have a ton of post-its and he does remember those things.

    7. fposte*

      I would ask him to include steps taken so far when he asks a question, and to articulate where in the manual he loses track.

      That’ll remind him to check the manual first and help clarify for you if there are problems with the documentation.

    8. Solidus Pilcrow*

      A tech writer who can’t seem to follow standards is a bit of a red flag to be sure. One thing with tech writers is we tend to look for the “why” behind a procedure. Can you provide any reasoning behind some of the things he needs to do? Many people are resistant to doing things that don’t make sense to them at the first glance but become more accepting if they can understand some of reasons it is the way it is. Not saying that you have to explain every little thing, but if there are some bigger things that can be explained or commiserated with, it may help. Yes, the system asks you to email yourself to get to the next stage, and yes it’s stupid, but it’s being phased out in 2 years and won’t be fixed, so we just have to live with it til then.

      Another thing to look at is how are your documents and checklists organized? Are they easy to find the info or is what he’s asking about buried in 10 pages of dense paragraphs? Could you assign your tech writer to re-work the training materials? That would ensure he reads them and maybe you’ll just get better docs out of it.

      Do you have good reference materials for standards like style sheets? No one can remember every small stylistic decision, that’s why we keep running lists. Again, how well are these organized?

      Have you walked the trainee through the entire process of what he needs to do or just given documents? Most people learn more by doing. The model I’ve heard quite often is “watch one, do one, teach one.” Have them watch you do it first, have them do it with you coaching, have them explain it back again.

      1. Meganly*

        Yes, I found it really odd that he struggles with standards so much especially because he has freelanced as a tech writer for a while before, and usually the trainees that struggle the most are the ones fresh out of college.
        Not to sound weird, but our check lists are amazingly detailed and organized; I wish they existed when I started! I made my own crappy checklist and used that. We keep a wiki sort of knowledge base that is pretty disorganized, other than having the dictionary split out. We do keep an updated, organized list of links to the articles that makes life really easy if you don’t want to search the wiki.
        I do walk him through how to do everything, have him demo it, and then set him free, sort of. I still review all of his documents and then have him fix all of his mistakes. There are just so many mistakes, and the aggravating part is that half of the time, it’s something that he asked me about earlier in the day and he misread/didn’t read what I had to say or it’s something that I specifically pointed out during the demo (and he wrote down!!) that he forgot. Definitely going to start having him explain what we just went over; that is a great idea!

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Does he check his own work? This might not fit your setting but I was thinking in terms of he either a) checks a section before moving to the next section or b) checks all his work before he gives it to you.
          I’d also define what the word “check” means. There is visual inspection. And then there is using a test to check it. Again, not sure which one would fit here. But can you insist that he check (in someway) the work before he gives it to you?

  44. LOtheAdmin*

    Happy Friday!

    I’m an admin/receptionist at a car dealership. I recently had my review and my GM said he was particularly impressed with my writing skills (so much so that I got a raise!) and how I organize things, so my big project from the next few months is to work with him and our sales manager to come up with a brand new hiring plan for our store. This includes updating sales process manuals and helping my boss to update their training/hiring process and to create new branded folders and new hire paperwork for the dealership.

    I have experience with creating manuals, but have no idea where to start as far as changing the hiring process to make it better, nor do I have any experience training sales folks. Desperately seeking input from anyone with advice on overhauling the old and making it awesome and new. I would like an idea of what I’m getting myself into or if everything I’ve mention is even possible to do.

    Thanks in advance for the help!

    1. Terra*

      Go to the people who’ve dealt with the processes you intend to change most recently. Ask them what, if anything, went well. Ask them what went badly. Ask why they think it went badly. Pull in more and more people (working backward in time from when they were last involved in the process) until you start to see a pattern emerge. Ideally you’ll end up with a few things that you had several complaints about and then a few more things that you only had one or two complaints about.

      The things with the most complaints are the things that most likely need to be changed (or if they can’t be then explained better) and the things that have very few complaints are things that can probably stay unless you want to change them/offer an alternative.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        For those who don’t know, The Management Center is a client and I wrote a lot of those tools! If you want more AAM but under someone else’s auspices, they’re a good place to go.

    3. rek*

      They like your writing skills, so your main function is to document. Ideally, the ideas for change should come from your GM, sales manager and other staff who perform the functions you are looking to update. However, it can be difficult for the people who *know* stuff to articulate it, so one of your chief tasks will be to get them talking and thinking about the topics. A good place to start is to help them document their current hiring, training and sales practices. (This includes identifying serious gaps where there is no process!) Even if there is no formal manual, people will know what they *do* for these functions. Once you have the current stuff documented, you can work with them to identify what works, what doesn’t work and what could work better. Also, see if you can convince them to bring others into the information mix: Ask your newest hires what would have made their training better. Ask your hiring managers what would have made the hiring process more successful. Ask your best sales people what makes their job harder.

      Bottom line: Other than using your talent to create the new, improved manuals, use other people’s knowledge and skills to get your information.

      1. Lindsay J*

        Adding to this: ask the sales people if there were any parts of the hiring process they felt to be particularly burdensome. How many letters do we read here about terrible online applications, disorganization, multiple interviews where they repeated the same information, etc.

  45. Slimy Contractor*

    Even though I’ve been a federal government contractor for 15 years, I’ve never actually applied for a government job. They usually take so long to hire that it’s easier just to get another contracting job. However, a new position has opened up in my agency that I think I’d actually be good at, right at a time when my contract is in limbo for my current position. I’m very lucky to have some coworkers experienced in USAJobs who are helping me game the system (without lying, of course; just making sure to use the right keywords) so that I can hopefully make it past the first cut and get an interview. I admit it’s a little scary to think about being an actual government employee. One of the benefits of contracting is that you have no real responsibility. You can respectfully recommend a course of action, but if the government yahoo doesn’t take your advice, they ultimately take the blame. Do I really want to be one of those yahoos? :)

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      You must have had a very easy 15 years! I have had it easy because I have a great client, but I’ve heard plenty of stories. Usually if you respectfully recommend a course of action and the government yahoo doesn’t take your advice, they blame YOU for “not explaining it right”. :D

      1. Slimy Contractor*

        Ha! Well, yes, that happens too. I’ve usually worked in office which have been about 50%-50% gov/mil and contractor, so there’s plenty of blame to go around.

  46. Meg Murry*

    Ugh, I’ve been tasked with a super unpleasant job that no one at my company likes to do, but I’m fastest at it and it’s my turn. I’ve been procratinating hard – so after this it’s time to unplug from the internet and get back to work. At least it’s Friday, woo hoo.

    Separate note – a while ago I worked at a place that I really liked, in a position I really liked, but due to internal politics and funding issues, they weren’t able to turn the job that was originally only a 1 year temporary one into a permanent position like they hoped. Then 6 weeks ago I was contacted by my old boss and told they were finally able to get permission to hire for a (very similar but not exactly the same) job. However, it’s been 6 weeks! and every time I talk to my friends there it has been held up by another piece of the bureaucracy – and due to the fact that it’s a union position they have very specific rules about how long the posting will have to be up, and what steps they have to take with internal candidates before considering external candidates, how many interviews and references they have to contact, etc etc. And they just implemented a new job posting system, which I know is slowing things down right now until people are training in using it.

    On one hand, I really want the position, because the people were so great and it was so close to home, and 99% of the time the bureaucracy didn’t effect my day-to-day job. But ugh, people, I’m starting to get disenfranchised with the process and I haven’t even seen the full job description yet, let alone started the paperwork/interview/wait process – which since I’ve done it before, I know can take forever. And since this position is sorely needed, and since it was approved weeks ago, I know the people who are currenlty trying to do 1.5-2 jobs each are starting to make a pile “for the new person to handle”. I know there are some major red flags with this hiring process, but it’s the kind of thing where once you get past that initial hurdle, people tend to stay there for 10-30 years or more. And I know that if they are taking the time to make it a permanent position, that would be better than what I went through last time with “oh we’ll make it a one year temporary postion and then you can apply to make it permanent” and after 6 months of paperwork and trying they finally said “nope, not authorizing a permanent position, sorry” and moved on, and now they are almost back to square one of where they were 2 years ago.

    I guess I don’t have anything specific to ask, just a vent. Anyone else ever give up on an application/company before even starting the application process due to crap like this?

    1. LQ*

      Hi! Government union job here. Like you the job I wanted was super close to home and a good job and really engaging work I liked to do. The burden of the bureaucracy was huge. But now that I’m in the job it’s really not that bad. If my job was managing I’d like it a lot less here, the hiring and firing is a monumental task. If the job doesn’t involve that and if you always know the people you’ll be working with I’d say it can be worth it to stick with the process.
      HR/Unions here make some things painful, but not my day to day job.

  47. Anon for this*

    Feeling weird. I’ve been at a new job for about six months. My new team was decided to be overstaffed due to changes in direction and such, and three positions were dropped. One was an empty position (someone had just quit). The other two were the senior person on the team and a mid-career person who seemed very competent but was way down the list in seniority/longevity.

    It’s just very strange to be sitting here after that. If it were two of the most senior people, I’d assume cost drove it. If it were purely a head count, I’d expect myself and the other person who’s new this year to have been selected. As it is, I’m left with the reminder that I don’t really know what the criteria are (do you ever?) and to wonder if politics were involved. (Although if they were, I’m still baffled. The mid career person was the most quiet, heads down person I’ve worked with, all about getting whatever-it-was done.)

    I don’t really have a question. I just wanted to be confused somewhere and I don’t think work itself is the place for it.

      1. Anon for this*

        Not really. Less chatty than the rest of us but friendly and no dislike I could see anywhere. Also, the decisions on who went were made outside the group and handed to our boss from what he said – in which case whoever decided probably didn’t interact with this person on even a weekly basis.

        (I can actually think of one good reason for picking this person – there are other open positions they are a good fit for – but that would make more sense if our boss were making the choices, and then the senior-most being chosen wouldn’t make sense.)

        1. Not So NewReader*

          The senior person may have offered to leave for unknown reasons.
          You might find out the rest of the story on what happened with both of them in a little bit.

  48. Mockingjay*

    Well, that which I predicted has come to pass:

    https://www.askamanager.org/2015/09/open-thread-september-25-2015.html#comment-879009

    The various engineering and management teams created their own SharePoint libraries on their subsites (because they could build a ‘better mousetrap,’ not that we needed one) and loaded copies of draft documents all over the place. Duplicates galore. Files are labeled randomly, not following the filename convention. Files are checked out but never checked in. Files are downloaded to desktops to be worked on, then uploaded with a new filename (so now there are two files). People are reviewing the wrong copies. Subfolders within subfolders within subfolders. It’s a mess.

    I just went to my Government Team Lead and calmly informed her that I would not be wasting my time trying to reconcile duplicate documents or find the most current. I phrased it as a process problem. Which it is, I wrote a detailed SOP (approved by the Big Boss) for document management and no one is following it.

    I asked my lead, “what is the value added by the engineering teams managing documents rather than allowing you and I to do it (which is our job in the first place)? Isn’t it better to let us track deliverables during development so they can concentrate on their technical tasks?” She will bring it up next week during the weekly status meeting.

    I’m getting too old for this crap.

    2. Ezri*

      Blarg, I feel your pain. I’ve been getting frantic emails all week from business managers because the army of content creators they manage keep misusing (or ignoring) the library hierarchy we set up (that matches what they specifically asked for). No, a draft file isn’t going to show up unless you publish it. No, we can’t stop them from putting teapot images in the kettle images library if you want them to have access to both, because how is SharePoint going to know the difference between two img files? I mean, we can do *some* things to enforce boundaries in our file system, but training and common sense has to factor in eventually.

      Regardless, any time the library is used incorrectly, we get an email with some header like URGENT ISSUE IMAGE FUNCTIONALITY IS BROKEN, because “user error” is just a developer conspiracy to cover up code issues.

  49. Brett*

    Everyone in our department got official word yesterday from our chain of command that there will be no raises of any type in 2016. We already knew it was unlikely merit raises would be reinstated, but we were at least hoping for some sort of across the board one time raise.
    This is already slowly rumbling into a public controversy because the chief executive hired 3o+ new appointees this year at six figure salaries; enough to have given every other employee a 3%+ raise.

    1. Brett*

      Oh, but he did just send everyone an invite to the Christmas tree lighting…

      Well, he didn’t. His assistant sent it out, as a scanned PDF of a printed out form letter, forwarded directly from the copier it was scanned on. Clearly he cares about his employees, we even get complimentary refreshments!

      (Meanwhile, the tree lighting is 30 minutes after end of work day on a Friday, at a site that is 50 minutes away during rush hour.)

      2. Mockingjay*

        I have an image of an employee filled with good cheer and wassail telling the executives explicitly why they deserve lumps of coal in their stockings…

  50. GlassKey*

    I look forward to reading AAM every day and would now welcome some advice on how to handle the following:
    My best friend, with whom I have the pleasure of working, lost her husband suddenly and unexpectedly last weekend, leaving her to raise 3 young children. I am devastated for her and, at her request, communicated the news to staff in our very small department, including our department head (we’ll call him Fergus). Fergus asked me to let him know when my friend was ready for him to share the news with a broader segment of our large organization (he is a VP), which I agreed to do, and we all agreed that we needed to let her have a say in how this was going to be done. A few days later, my friend texted me, said it was ok now for Fergus to send out a message and also asked me to work with one of our co-workers in another department (we’ll call her Ann) to help spread the word to people she knew there. Ann wrote a touching email and sent it out to staff in that department, to which people responded with love and support.

    Fergus went ballistic when he learned that Ann’s email went out before his. Being out of town (he travels a lot), he sent his admin. asst. to deliver message to Ann in person that what she did was inappropriate and out of line because it was his job to send out the announcement, not hers. Ann was so upset she was in tears and she emailed me to tell me what had happened, saying that she was sorry if she had done something wrong but she was just trying to carry out my friend’s request. I immediately contacted Fergus, saying hey, I think there might be a miscommunication here, can we discuss quickly, etc. because I wanted him to know that my friend had specifically asked Ann to do this, but he sent back a terse response saying no, he did not want to discuss it and that his email needed to go out ASAP. He then sent an email to Ann’s boss, referring to Ann as “that idiot,” making her feel even worse.
    Following on the heels of the tragic and sudden death of the sibling of one of my employees, this has been a particularly difficult 2 weeks for everyone and I am so down right now. I get that it’s probably kosher for the head of the employee’s actual department to send out the official announcement, but who really cares in a situation like this since the intent is to rally and provide support? The last thing we need in this situation is more negativity, but I find myself so angry at Fergus for this behavior, and at his admin, who didn’t have enough sense to at least neutralize some of his arrogance before she talked to Ann, that I don’t know what to do. The worst part is that I can’t say I’m 100% surprised by it; Fergus started only about 6 months ago, has exhibited some pretty erratic behavior (not showing up for meetings when he’s supposed to make a presentation, other really weird stuff), and my very limited interactions with him have not gone well. Ann and I have agreed never to tell her any of this but feel like Fergus or his admin will pounce on relaying everything the second she comes back through the door. Any advice on how to get over my frustration or at least channel my anger toward buffering my friend from this nonsense? I thought about requesting a staff meeting next week to clear the air but since Fergus never shows up for those (I know…) it doesn’t seem like a good use of time.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Wow. I don’t even have good advice for you, just sympathy for you, your co-workers and their losses, and Ann! Poor Ann. I have no idea what to do about Fergus (besides brush it off), but that sounds like a nightmare.

      1. GlassKey*

        Yes, I’m tempted to take the sympathy card I bought for my friend and send it to Fergus instead, saying “Sorry you think it’s ok to behave like that.”

    2. Sadsack*

      Sorry about this sad situation. What would a staff meeting accomplish? I’d just wait until Fergus is back in the office, then immediately go see him in person to tell him about your friend’s request. You could also tell him how upset Ann was at his comment, maybe he’ll have the decency to apologize.

      1. GlassKey*

        I would love to and hope I get the opportunity; he’s not in the office very often. The last time I talked to him (about 2 months ago), I asked for 30 seconds of his time to get a yes/no on an important decision and he literally looked at his watch, rolled his eyes, and said, “30 seconds? I doubt that.” (I did it in 20.)

    3. fposte*

      Fergus is a horrible person. I don’t know that you can prevent him from horribling.

      I don’t know how the ranks play out here, but maybe there’s an opportunity to say “I know tragedy hits people funny, but I think we’re risking making this situation about corporate hierarchies and not human connection, and I think that’s a mistake that would loom large to all the staff.”

      1. GlassKey*

        Well said, fposte. That’s a wonderful way to phrase it that I think would resonate well. Thank you.

        1. mander*

          Fergus, in the refrain so often heard on AAM, is an ass.

          I’d go farther and add “hole” to that.

          What kind of jerk takes someone’s tragedy and turns it into a big drama about how they were passed up in the hierarchy? I’m livid on your behalf.

    5. PontoonPirate*

      Honestly, I’d gather whatever emailed communication I have (for example, if Ann is willing to share the “idiot” email) and forward that to whomever is either over Fergus or equal to Fergus, and with whom you have a good rapport. In your forward, I’d simply say, “I recognize it’s a fraught time for us all, but I’m not okay with this.”

    6. Elizabeth West*

      I am pretty sure the other managers (and employees) know how Fergus is. This is a really stupid thing for him to throw a fit over. I don’t think a staff meeting would solve anything.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      If you can, (not sure if I would be able to do this) ask Fergus to write a statement/policy of how he wants announcements like this to be handled in the future. This way everyone will know their roll and what to expect.
      Added points for saying that his show of upset only served to get people even more upset which is never a good thing in a time of loss.

      I worked one place where these announcements came through one person. Half the people knew before the announcement was made. But this was the procedure at any rate. I think that the idea might be to prevent seven people from making the same announcement at the same time.
      Give it a week or so to calm down a tiny bit , then ask him what procedure he would like to use in order to prevent so much upset again.

  51. First time mom, due in Feb*

    Maternity Leave Poll:
    – How many weeks maternity leave did you take?
    – Did you personally feel that it was enough time, in terms of child bonding, care, development, etc. and your own health?
    – What would be your main nugget of advice to first-time moms about maternity leave length?

    1. lulu*

      I took 3 months (unpaid). I felt it was a good amount for me. I was lucky because my husband was on summer break after that, so we didn’t have to put the baby in daycare for another 2 months.
      I would say follow your guts. This seemed right for me, I always knew I would go back to work, but it was important to take enough time off at the beginning. I didn’t ask for inputs from my employer (small business), just told them what my plans were.

    2. Sarah*

      I took 10 weeks which is pretty standard at my office. (None of it was paid though, I had to use a combo of vacation days, sick days and unpaid time off.) My kid was healthy and so was I, which made it easier -it would have been way harder if either of us had any medical issues. I had a hard time going back -tired, emotional, anxious- but once I got over the hump I was okay..

    3. Wonder Woman*

      I ultimately took 16 weeks of leave, 6 weeks before the birth due to health issues (actually it was my terrible job stressing me out so much that my doctor wanted me to rest) and 10 weeks after. I’ve been back at work for two months now. If you can, take at least 12 weeks. The first 3 months of parenthood are hell, but things do start to smooth out around the 3 month mark (at least for us they did).

    4. Bend & Snap*

      I took 12 weeks and it wasn’t nearly enough. I got back to work totally overwhelmed to be around a lot of people, feeling weird to be in real clothes, sweaty and feeling like I had abandoned my baby and was in the complete wrong place. I might have quit if I’d had a choice.

      It got a lot better but the first day was horrible, tearful, wrong.

      1. Meg Murry*

        Oh, I forgot about clothes. I didn’t fit into any of my “real” clothes yet, but maternity clothes didn’t fit me right either anymore. Plan to buy at least a week’s worth of work transition clothes in a size (or 2 or 3) bigger than your previous work size, unless you are one of those people with high metabolisms who loses weight easily – and even then, you might be back to the same number on the scale but find that your shape is different so your regular clothes feel weird. If you are in an environment where dresses are appropriate, wrap dresses (or faux wraps) in a stretchy fabric are good for the transitionary sizes.

        1. Wonder Woman*

          Oh yea, clothes! We were totally broke by the end of my leave (my husband is a stay at home dad) but nothing fit, so I had to run out to Kohls and buy like, 2 pairs of pants and a few blouses just to be able to go to work that first week.

    5. Meg Murry*

      With my first I took a little under 8 weeks, with my second I took 10 or 11 (plus almost 2 weeks before he was born).

      Advice: if possible, go back at less than full time. With my first, I went back once for a monthly meeting to get a feel on what I had missed and a big picture feel for what was going on when he was 6 weeks old, then to the weekly (more detailed) team meeting when he was 7 weeks old and to start going through my emails plus one other day that week, then I was back to full-full time at 8 weeks. I wish I could have afforded to take more, but it was mostly unpaid and my department was understaffed, so I knew that after the first few weeks no one else would be picking up the slack, everything would just be waiting for me – so I could either catch up on 4 weeks of work backlog, or take more [unpaid] time but have to catch up on even more backlog.

      If you can’t go back part time, have your first day back be a Wednesday, Thursday or even Friday, and don’t make plans to do anything that first weekend back other than catch up on household stuff like laundry and sleep, because you’ll probably be exhausted.

      Unless you get something more than standard American FMLA, make sure you don’t use up all your vacation/sick time for maternity leave – babies get sick often, and then make you sick, and you will need quite a few days that first year. That’s why I went back at 10/11 weeks – our FMLA time was also our “sick” time – and I needed it, because sure enough baby got sick by my 2nd week back, and then I caught it on my 3rd week – so I wound up working only 3 days a week for my first week back.

      Honestly, neither of those times were quite enough to be recovered, only enough to not be 100% exhausted and still clueless about caring for a baby- especially if breastfeeding. Most breastfed babies go through a growth spurt where they want to nurse all night long for 2-3 days straight at 3 weeks, 6 weeks and 12 weeks – so going back to work around 12 weeks and dealing with several sleepless nights is so freaking exhausting. For the first few weeks I pretty much went straight to bed as soon as I got home from work and ate something, so that I could get some, any kind of sleep. I also napped during lunch on the worst days.

    6. TB*

      I took six weeks off completely, and for the next six weeks I worked one day a week. I think easing back into things was a good idea. This was before most people could easily access work email from home, so it would be different today.

    7. Ann O'Nemity*

      Thanks for asking this! I’m also planning on taking maternity leave soon so I’m curious about everyone’s experiences. I plan to take 12 weeks.

      And I’m forced to use all my PTO during FMLA, as per company policy. Financially that’s going to help us, but I’m not super excited about going back to work with zero available PTO. My husband will trying to save up his PTO, knowing that he’ll be on sick baby duty until I’m able to accrue more PTO.

    8. J.B.*

      8 weeks with the first, husband was on leave for 2 weeks after that. Not enough and we had major sleep issues so I was pretty much hallucinating for a while. I was trying too hard for the first kid and was going crazy while out.

      12 weeks with the second, followed by husband taking 11 weeks. Worked much better and we really prioritized my sleep – husband on duty for the first half of the night so I could get as close as possible to a 5 hour stretch. It was much saner. This being the second kid I was much more relaxed and enjoyed holding the baby while watching tv.

      Nugget – your sleep has value. If you can’t get the baby to sleep on his or her own, don’t feel guilty about lying down together for a nap. Get as close to one 5 hour stretch at night as you can. If you are breastfeeding, keep in mind what my midwife said: “breastfeeding is great, but you need sleep! One bottle won’t ruin it.” In fact, bottles generally are your friends.

    9. Cube Farmer*

      With my first, I took the six weeks allotted me. It went by too quickly; but I still feel like we had time for bonding.

      With my second, I took off 10 DAYS. Had her on a Thursday, went back to work the second Monday. All leave was unpaid and with one child with leukemia and me being the only one bringing in an income, I had to return to work. I pumped at work and breast fed at home. I don’t think we bonded any less though. She is 15 now and rolls her eyes at me and thinks I’m “UNFAIR!!” like most teenage girls do.

      Best of luck with your new love!

    10. DebbieDebbieDebbie*

      Three uncomplicated deliveries
      Returned at 6 weeks, 6 weeks and 8 weeks. I was paid using sick and vacation time. I would have preferred longer and have an employer where that would have been possible–the issue was my partner/relationship.
      Medically, I felt recovered but emotionally I was not ready to separate from my babies. I remember the first day back so clearly that to this day, I am still careful to be extra supportive to new moms in their first days back.
      Breastfeeding was challenging but I still managed to nurse and pump for 10-12 months for each of them.
      As others have suggested, I would recommend that you not use every last drop of leave that you may have in order to take any needed time off in the first year of your baby’s life. And I love the idea of easing back in with a limited schedule at first.
      Oh! and the most important thing–the kids and I all turned out fine despite a less than ideal start.

    11. Kyrielle*

      I took all 12 I was entitled to by FMLA, about 6-8 weeks of it paid via stored vacation and short term disability, both times. Canada does a year for a reason and I feel like 12 weeks is already quite short. I needed over 6 weeks to recover from the first (not a C-section, but due to some rare things you shouldn’t worry about, I needed extra healing time), with the second it was more like a week (also not a C-section, obviously).

      Also, most day care centers won’t take a child before 6-8 weeks and, immunization and otherwise, I feel like they’re a little sturdier by about 8 weeks than earlier. One thing I did that worked really well for me is that I started a graduated approach to day care at 8 weeks with both boys – they went in for a few hours one day, then for a whole day, then for two days the next week. It was partially to let them adapt, and the centers to get to know them, but also to let ME adapt to the change and get used to – and get some down time to be _me_ and not _mom_ at home, before I went back to work. It let me catch up on sleep, and on non-sleep “restedness” if that makes sense.

      1. Kyrielle*

        I should add that I live in a state – Oregon – where I was best off taking all 12 weeks. OFLA _also_ authorizes 12 weeks and runs concurrently with FMLA for parental leave, but OFLA also provides: “(3) An eligible employee taking the entire 12 weeks of OFLA leave authorized by ORS 659A.162 (1) for parental leave may take an additional 12 weeks of sick child leave within the same leave year. If the employee uses less than 12 weeks of parental leave, however, no additional sick child leave is available, except that the balance of the 12 weeks of OFLA leave authorized by ORS 659A.162 may be used for sick child leave or for any OFLA leave purpose. ”

        Note that this means that had I taken 8 weeks, I could have had 4 weeks for sick child leave; because I took 12, I could have up to 12 weeks for sick child leave. So I took my full 12 weeks of parental leave. (I didn’t end up needing much time off, my modified schedule made it easy to work things out without missing time from a week, but.)

        So: make sure you know any specially applicable laws in your locale, and how they apply!

    12. New Mom*

      I had my first baby in June and took 6 weeks leave. The delivery was uncomplicated so that is when I was medically cleared. I was actually really ready to go back but there was the super strange feeling of wanting to be both places simultaneously. My biggest advice would be first to do a practice run and second to go back midweek. The week before I went back, I started getting up at work time even if I had to nap later. Two days before going back I actually got up at work time, got ready, and left the house. I was only gone a few hours but it made the first morning less hectic. And if you are planning to pump I would start early and have baby take a bottle once a day to get used to it.

    13. BatterUp*

      I was put out on disability due to pregnancy complications 8 weeks pre birth, and then I took 4 months off after- all of it was covered by state disability and paid family leave (I live in CA).

      I wish I had taken a lot longer off- but at the time, I felt that if I stayed out longer, I would screw myself out of a deserved promotion (which I ended up being screwed out of anyway). So, that would be my best piece of advice… take as long as you can/want to. Looking back, 4 months was definitely not long enough, especially as I was very much struggling with postpartum depression, my husband had taken a new more stressful/longer hours job, and my darling daughter was a very poor sleeper. I had never had issues with depression ever, and would not have predicted that I would experience that. Another two months to regroup and get used to our new life as a family would have been very beneficial.

    14. Anon for this*

      I had my last day of work on a Thursday, had him on Monday night after induction ended in c section under general anesthesia. He was in the NICU by Wednesday morning. I went back to work seven weeks after his birth. He didn’t come home until two weeks later. He had an unexpected birth defect, and then a surgery, and then complications upon complications. It was absolutely horrible.

      My biggest piece of advice is to cherish the time. I’ll never know what it’s like to just have my baby at home and not have to go anywhere anytime soon, and I will always mourn it. Take as much as you can possibly get and afford.

      I ended up going back to work not thinking he would make it home until a month and a half later. He ended up coming home two weeks later. Sadly, at that time I was the main income and I couldn’t afford to hedge any bets. Wish I would have.

    15. Mkb*

      thanks for asking this, I am also pregnant with my first and am unsure how much leave to take. I can take up to 16 weeks, 3 would be paid full (my sick and vacation time), 5 would be paid at 60% of my salary then the remaining 8 would be unpaid if I choose to take them. Right now I am thinking of doing 12 total but may end up taking the full 16 if we can swing it financially.

    16. Thinking out loud*

      I took five months. I remember looking at the calendar one day and realizing that it had been six weeks – so according to many people, I should have been back at work. I was still in a lot of pain from recovery, I was tired all the time because my son didn’t sleep, and it took me two or three months to get nursing figured out. That said, some people get antsy to get back to work quickly. My best advice is to tell management how long you hope to take (a range is fine) but say that you really have no idea and hope your return date can be flexible and ask how much notice they’d like you to give when you’re ready to come back.

  52. Anomnomnom*

    How can I look for jobs where I will be training people? I do this at work for new employees on our current process and love this part! I wish I got to do it more.

    1. FutureLibrarian*

      I think you need to narrow this down a bit, if you can!

      Jobs where you will be training people exist in every sector, in every market, and in every title range.

      What field? Manager, or just a trainer without management responsibilities?

  53. Xanthippe Lannister Voorhees*

    One of my coworkers is deaf. He speaks but also signs, usually simultaneously. I’ve heard so much about “language immersion” but I never figured it would translate to ASL but I’ve been pleasantly surprised to find myself picking up more and more. I may not be able to make the signs myself but I usually understand what he’s saying- even if he’s only signing (this doesn’t work when he’s conversing with another fluent signer- they just go too fast!).

    Anyone else picking up some unexpected but useful job skills?

      1. Mimmy*

        I’ve been teaching myself sign language too. My husband got me a whole DVD set last Christmas. It’s expensive (25 discs!) but very informative. It’s not an easy language to learn though.

  54. Ista*

    Here’s a question for the small non-profit crowd…

    I have an interview next week with a small museum for the role of Marketing Director. It’s part-time, approx. 30h per week, no benefits, and it’s about an hour away. These are already issues for me, but it might be worth while for other reasons.

    On the screening call, we discussed that commute and how that 30hours might be structured to reduce it. My inclination is to be there no more than four days a week, the director would prefer as much time on-site and available across the week *plus* active networking at local business events. We did not discuss whether this is salary or hourly role, my guess is salary.

    If this is an hourly position, it seems clear that those local business events should fall into the 30hours (yes? maybe?). If it’s salary, is the answer the same?

    Writing this, I realize I’m really not even clear what questions to ask about a higher level part-time position like this. Can anyone advise as to what I should be really clear on or be prepared to question before my interview? Thanks!

    1. Charlotte Gray*

      Really think about that commute and how you’ll feel about it years into the job, not just right now. I thought I’d be okay with an hour/75 minute commute one way, but now a few years in (and with changing priorities) it is hell every night. If you can structure your 30 hours to be outside of rush hour, that could be a big help. If you can start later on the networking event days and work 12-8 or something, that would be a big help. I don’t like the nights I have to stay late for something, but when I do, I can get home in 55 minutes because there’s no traffic.

    2. non-profit manager*

      If the position is exempt, then all time you spend would be included in your salary, which is likely to be prorated to 30 hours per week. If the position is non-exempt, you would have to paid for all time spent working, whether it’s in the office or networking at events.

      You should be very clear on their expectations regarding this. I personally have never seen a part-time exempt position that was truly part-time. In fact, the nature of exempt positions is such that you are paid to do the job, not based on the number of hours you work. In one case, the part-time exempt employee was fine working 40 and up to 50 hours a week with a reduced salary due to the added flexibility. In the other case, the part-time exempt person tracked her hours and chafed at even one hour more in a week.

      If I were interviewing for a higher level part-time position, I would first ask if the position is exempt or non-exempt. If exempt, then ask how they envision this working. For example, is the workload such that you can do all aspects of the job in 30 hours a week? Given that it’s part time, how much flexibility will you have in determining your work hours, particularly during weeks when there is a lot of off-site networking? You need to figure out in advance if you’re okay with likely working beyond 30 hours a week on a regular basis, particularly if your salary is based on 30 hours a week. Ask if they have done this before (part-time exempt) and how it worked out. My sense is they probably really want a full-time person, but don’t have the budget for it.

      From a manager’s side, based on the workload at our non-profit and now having a better understanding of the rules in California on exempt and non-exempt employees, I would think long and hard about ever creating another part-time exempt position because, to me, part-time and exempt just do not go together well.

  55. A is for A*

    Just venting here… our healthcare office manager is an astounding idiot, and incredibly lazy. I could post many many stories about her calling me asking me the same question multiple times in one day, and other things, but I won’t. Today it’s a new level of idiocy. The staff I manage have a monthly schedule, however, in addition, I send out the next two week’s schedules to all staff, the office manager, my boss, and payroll in case there are any changes, like last minute vacation days or whatever.

    On it, it indicates, dates and hours works by each person. It also indicates if they are OFF (box is yellow), if the have PTO (green box), if they are going to a conference (pink box), have in-house training (orange box), Holiday (blue box), or Jury Duty (purple), since these all have different payroll codes or something (not quite sure – but payroll likes it this way).

    Office manager just called me, pissed that I had indicated that one of my staff is at in-house training next week. This was our conversation:
    Her- “why did you indicate that EMPLOYEE is at in-house training? Is that our training or a conference on the outside?”
    Me – “That’s in-house training. If it was a conference, I would have said conference, and not in-house training”
    Her – “Well that is very confusing. When I see in-house training I automatically think of an outside workshop or conference. You need to think of something else to call it.”
    Me – “No. That’s what it’s referred to here. Please refer to the color guide if you’re confused about outside workshops/conferences or in-house trainings.”
    Her – “Not fair!”

    And then she hung up. I’m a little confused about what’s not fair about referring to things by their actual names.

    3. University Girl*

      When my boss restructured our department at the beginning of September, she gave everyone a list of duties and the individuals responsible for completing those tasks. The woman who works in the front office cannot seem to remember what everyone does now. I will say that she never really remember what we did before, either, but there’s a list! The names are right there! So when she sent something to me today, a duty that I am no longer responsible for, I responded as such. She claimed that she checked the duties list, but it didn’t differentiate staff. It clearly lists who does one versus the other (A-M [H. Wolowitz] / N-Z [S. Cooper]). I think there’s no hope that this point and it sounds like there may be none for your situation either.

  56. Jennifer*

    So everyone’s out siiiiiiiiiick yet again except my group. Kill us now. Also, we had a surprise meeting sprung on us that we got “in trouble” for not knowing about and that we didn’t rearrange our lunches around (which is to say, it took place during one lady’s lunch hour so I had to work her counter shift so she could have a lunch). We were not invited to the meeting and I proved it, but we’re still in trouble anyway.

    I am sick of every day sucking.

    Also, I…just don’t know what to do about the total inability to proofread that people have here. I just want to say “Let me do it all by myself and take their work away from them,” because if I’m going to have to spend so much time fixing things people didn’t bother to proofread the first time…My supervisor knows, but nobody can literally stand over someone all day nagging them to check, so what can be done?

    1. Elizabeth West*

      Nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

      But seriously, I’m not really sure. I’m tempted to tell you to just say “Not my circus, not my monkeys,” but I understand your frustration. If it’s part of your job to correct these errors, maybe you could make a simple checklist with the most common mistakes and their correct versions and distribute it. That might help the others focus better. You could send it with “Please run your document through this checklist before sending it to Jennifer.” Your supervisor would have to back you up, but if he/she is understanding and the check would only take a couple of minutes or so, it could help.

      If it’s not your responsibility, there’s not much you can do.

  57. kkm*

    I started at a non-profit as a temp and got hired on permanently in a part-time position. I like my position and it might be a while before something full time comes up. I don’t necessarily need a full time position at the moment but one would be nice. My question is how long should I stay in this part time position before looking elsewhere for full time employment. I am kind of looking very casually.

    1. Lillian McGee*

      It’s likely they know that as a part-timer you’ll be looking for full time work… unless they asked you at the interview why you were interested in part time work and you gave them an answer insinuating that you would not be looking for full time work… which not be cool of you to backpedal on quite so soon.
      Also, longer histories always look better on resumes, even with part time work. If you need to build up solid and reliable work history it might be worth it to stay a year or two.

  58. BizzieLizzie*

    Next week, I have to give someone the bad news that need to let them go at end of probation.
    It is the right decision as unfortunately the person cannot deliver what the job needs despite coaching/training etc.

    At times the person exhibited that thing we are never supposed to use for feedback (but we all understand) – an ‘Attitude’ with a capital A. But in the end it was the inability to deliver that forced the decision, regardless of ‘Attitude’.

    I know not having to deal with the person will actually make my job easier – but no matter what, I hate to do this, would have preferred to be able to coach/train past the problems.

    1. Nom d' Pixel*

      That is tough. You want everyone to succeed and do well at their jobs and understand the impact that this could have on the person. However, it sounds like you understand that they have to be an active participant in improving their performance and you can’t do it for them. My sympathies.

  59. Calla*

    I have a 3.5 hour long interview this afternoon! It’s my first onsite one there and hopefully the last with that length! I rarely get nervous with this interviews these days but I am a little with this one (especially since it’ll include an Excel test, which I do know how to use, but performance… anxiety). But I really, really want this job, so cross your fingers for me :)

  60. Anon and on and on*

    When he’s assigning me work, my boss keeps saying things like “I need your best effort on this” or “I need a good effort from you.” Is that his way of saying he doesn’t think I’m trying hard enough?

    These assignments are typically informal communications pieces that I write. Some are more important than others, but none of them are life-and-death, nor would any of them directly impact the company’s profits/budgets/anything else related to money. My boss reads every piece before its distributed (again, internally) and typically makes changes that I consider small. He has never found a factual error or even a typo in my work; he just sometimes prefers a slightly different wording (tbh, I usually prefer my original wording to his revisions, but it’s not worth arguing because, again, the changes are inconsequential).

    I don’t think I’m giving a sub-par effort with these projects, but to be honest, they’re not very difficult in the first place. How can I tell if I’m working hard enough?

    1. IT Kat*

      Why not just ask? Maybe the next time he says “I need your best effort on this”, say something like “I always do! Is there something I should be doing differently?”

      Or, schedule a 15-min sit down and open up with “I often hear from you that you want my best effort and a good effort on projects. Do you have concerns about my work? Is there something I should be doing differently?” and then listen to what your boss says.

      Could just be a turn of phrase, and he doesn’t mean anything by it. Or it could be something more that you’re not seeing (maybe he’s not communicating a deadline or something – not your fault, but something you’d want to know, and a proactive conversation should help to bring out if he has any concerns).

      1. Anon and on and on*

        It can be hard to get a word in edgewise with my boss. He likes to sit down at my desk, say what he needs to say, and jump up without giving me a chance to talk about my thing. I’m also a little bit afraid of the answer, because he’s the type of boss who might say “Yeah, you’re not trying hard enough” without providing any examples of what’s not up to snuff or what I should be doing about it.

        1. IT Kat*

          I don’t think there’s a way to tell without asking. It’s hard to do, but it’s either do that, or… be resigned to not knowing what he means.

          If you can’t get a word in edgewise at the time, then ask for 15 minutes to touch base and state you have some questions – and then ask. And if he says “You’re not trying hard enough” ask for examples – like “Can you help me with some examples of ways I might improve? It’s hard to tell what I should be doing differently without feedback.”

          1. Anon and on and on*

            Ugh, I think you’re right. I guess I’m just paranoid that I’m never working hard enough. Like, in a job where physical exertion isn’t a thing and there’s no need to put in additional hours, how do you know you’re working hard? What’s that supposed to feel like?

            1. IT Kat*

              It’s hard to quantify – but usually a feeling of accomplishment with your tasks, steady work throughout the day (if you spend a lot of time with no work, that might be an issue), compliments from others.

              But a lot of times, you just need to get feedback from those you do tasks for.

            2. misspiggy*

              Excellent question! I guess the only sensible approach is to decide what a great result from this piece of work would look like, and do everything realistically within your control to make that happen. Then it will at least be clear that you put a lot of effort in, whether or not you happened to find the work hard.

            3. Not So NewReader*

              If you have put your best thinking and your best resources every inch of the way into something you have worked pretty darn hard.

              Everyone has their own idea of what working hard is. I have seen people stand around with their arms folded across their stomachs and they will insist they are working very hard. And I have seen people work themselves into a hospital bed and say “I should have done more.”

              I think what you need to know is what does he want from you that you could do better or do in addition to what you are doing. I am wondering if he is a bit of a micromanager. In my opinion, micromanagement is not working hard. I call it something else… however, your best bet is to find out what he wants so you can do it.
              I have worked for places where we all went home falling down tired and the boss said we did not work hard enough. Instead of focusing on “working hard enough” focus on the work itself. Is the work done correctly? Is it thorough? Is it done when it’s supposed to be done? Have you done everything that has been asked of you today? Don’t feed into the paranoid feelings that road will not help you get on a different path.

  61. the gold digger*

    I have to share a job posting I saw yesterday. I try not to post about typos because glass houses, etc., but this one is too funny:

    “Responsible for driving customer SLA benchmarks across the 3 desperate contact centers in North America.”

  62. Amber Rose*

    Looks like we’re outsourcing one of the fun parts of my job. I’m kinda bummed about it.

    Aside from that, wearing shoes is now terribly painful (I’m a big showy show-off and the result is my bursitis has worsened), but for safety reasons I may not go without, or wear open toed shoes. I don’t care about the toes, it’s my heel that can’t handle being touched. Is it possible to wear close toed shoes without heels that are not slippers or too high? My leg muscles are pretty damaged.

    I can take my shoes off at my desk so I do but I do need to walk around sometimes.

    1. LCL*

      Go to the store that sells outdoor gear. The right place should have a myriad of light boots and oxford type shoes. Also consider men’s shoes, they are wider in the heel. Try them on first.

    2. Bend & Snap*

      Danskos are HIDEOUS but they have tons of support and your heel lifts out when you walk without touching the back, if you have the right fit.

      1. Calacademic*

        Clogs may not meet safety approval. They aren’t allowed in the lab spaces here. If you have safety requirements, I’d check first.

    4. Observer*

      Can you deal with slingbacks? Or shoe with a closed front and ankle strap? Those would probably meet safety requirements, because they won’t fall off and won’t flop open in the back. Find out if crocs would work – there are holes in the front portion and the back strap is not snug, so that might not fly, though.

      I just checked zappos, for curiosity. A quick search shows lots of slingbacks with decent heels. Not so many shoes with ankle straps that fit what you describe.

  63. IT Kat*

    I need some help.

    I recently started a job (back in May) that honestly… is not what it was presented to be. Long story short, but the hiring manager fed the recruiter and myself a bill of goods, including outright lying (and yes, it was lying, not just being mistaken, I have confirmed with others in the company), and it turns out the hiring manager had already put in his two weeks notice when they started the hiring process.

    I was resigned to see out at least two weeks, even if the benefits and responsibilities were not what I’d been led to believe, then on Wednesday I got contacted by a recruiter who was hiring for a job that sounds right up my alley. Their target salary is 13% higher than what I’m making now (and more what I am supposed to be making here with bonuses that aren’t materializing), and I have the experience in a really obscure software package that they’re looking for. Plus, it’s a step up in responsibility that I thought I would be getting with the job I have now, that never was an option (confirmed by the owner of the company, the departing manager had no authority to promise what he did).

    I have a phone screen for them on Monday, and I was just trying to figure out a diplomatic way to say “The position was misrepresented to me” when I’m asked why I’m leaving after such a short time period. I thought there was an AAM article on this in the past, but my Google-Fu is failing me and I can’t find it.

    Also, any tips on how to overcome guilt? Because I know that CurrentCompany paid a recruiter a headhunting fee for me, and I am struggling with my anxiety over them doing that when I’m passively looking for something else…

    1. Dawn*

      Check the questions that were posted this morning! That was one of the ones of the 5- what to say to potential employers about leaving because a job was misrepresented.

      1. IT Kat*

        Do you mean #2 from this morning? It’s talking about still in the interview process, which is way different from my situation (finding out after I started work, and talking to other employers).

    2. IT Kat*

      Noticed a typo – I was resigned to stay out at least two YEARS, not two weeks. I’ve been here for more than 5 months.

    3. mander*

      Why feel guilty when they weren’t honest with you about what the job entails?

      Also I think it would be fine to say “unfortunately, the job duties turned out to be substantially different from what I was told they would be when I took this job. I would like to focus more on X (thing new job does), but at my current job I only do Y and Z.”

      1. IT Kat*

        Mainly because the person who wasn’t honest is gone now – so it’s not really the owner’s fault that I was fed a load of misinformation :-/ That’s where my guilt comes from, I think, it’s not the fault of the people still here that our ex-boss sold me a load of crap.

        1. Bruce H.*

          >> … it’s not really the owner’s fault …
          No, but it is his responsibility.

          Would you be able to stay if they changed the job to match what you thought you were getting?

          1. IT Kat*

            Probably – but it would still be iffy, because the environment infrastructure (I’m in IT) is wildly different than what was verbally explained, which isn’t a case of something they can just give me. Like if you were told you’d be working on documents written in English and it’s actually badly translated into English from another language is the best similarity I can come up with. Also it would be revising the bonus structure, giving me tuition reimbursement (not something offered by the company as a benefit now), and that’s not likely.

            I know better, I should have gotten everything in writing, but…the hiring manager was a really good salesman.

        2. Elizabeth West*

          True, but they’re adults and you’re not responsible for their success or failure. If it’s really that bad, they’ll find their way out on their own. Just do the best you can while you’re there. Don’t let guilt trap you in a shitty situation.

          1. IT Kat*

            You have a very good point. I think I’m getting too attached to working with people I like and feeling guilty about leaving them more than anything, but they’re adults and things happen….

      2. IT Kat*

        Thank you for the suggested wording! I don’t know why I was having such a mental block on a diplomatic way to say that.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      One of the ways of overcoming guilt is by going ahead with your plans even though you feel guilty. I am not seeing where anyone at the company is trying to make this up to you in anyway. It looks like you have talked to the owner and there was not even an expression of regret? hmmm.

      Be careful about absorbing responsibility for things that are not yours to be responsible for. It’s fine to regret the situation did not work out. But the rest of it has nothing to do with you and it was nothing under your control. One question I ask myself is “How could I have prevented X from happening?” In your story here, “How could I have prevented this person from lying to me?” Now it becomes crystal clear, right? You could not have prevented him from lying to you.

      In short:
      It’s easy to mix regret with guilt. Regret for a situation not working out is okay, but guilt for things beyond your control is just beating yourself up.

  64. Jerzy*

    I am thinking about going part time in the new year. I’m working at a job I’m less than thrilled with, and am finding that I don’t have time to do the things I need to do outside of work. I have a 2 year old son and have been working full time since he was 3 months old. We’re also trying to sell our house, and I have some medical issues that really need attention that my busy schedule doesn’t allow. My husband is a little nervous about what it will mean for us financially, but we’ll be fine. I’ve run the numbers.

    My employer does have some people who do work part time, so I was thinking about asking if it would be possible for me to do that. My husband says that if I ask, and they don’t want me to, they’ll just start looking to replace me. I don’t necessarily think that’s true, but what do you think? Should I just look for a part time gig at a new company all together, or give them a chance to keep me here, just at fewer hours?

    1. fposte*

      I would want a staffer of mine to ask me about part time possibilities before she looked elsewhere. I’d hate to lose the opportunity to keep her.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Whether you want to ask or not is one thing, but you can make some educated guesses on whether you think they will say yes.

      Is your company/department large or small? Are you busy 40 hrs a week? Are there several people in your position, or just you?

      We have a few part-time people, including 1 in my department. She’s one of 5 people who could do her work, so it’s fine. On the other hand, one person in my department is one of one and unless we could find a dream person to fit her exact off hours, she would need to be replaced with a full-time person. To further muddy the waters, we are large enough that we could possibly find a specific set of work that she could do part-time, instead of her doing her current job, but willingness to do that depends how much everyone likes and values a specific individual.

      1. Jerzy*

        Hmm, this is something I have thought about a bit. My role is one done by many people in the firm (which is smallish, but growing), but I am the only one doing the work on my specific projects. I manage two projects, and it just about keeps me busy 40 hours a week, though I definitely have time to do other things during my average day (like check out what’s new on AAM). If I were to drop one of my projects, the work for the other would be about 20 hours a week, and I’d still have some time available to work on one-off projects as needed, which I do now anyway.

        Someone else would need to take over my duties on the other project, which I know would be an issue, only because it’s been a wreck of a project since before I joined the firm, mostly because the project lead is very difficult to work with. Nice enough, but disorganized and a micro-manager.

        Despite some issues I have with communication in the firm, it is known for being loyal (to a fault) to their employees, so maybe that’s why I’m not as afraid of being pushed out for asking, even if they say no, that they need me full-time. At the very least, maybe they’ll offer me some added flexibility to my schedule.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          I think if it’s project based and there are other PMs, you should have a good chance. But, I am worried that it sounds like you might not have a great culture fit and your rep has suffered because of it. You might be able to frame that as a positive spin PT option, or they might use it against you. My culture is similar, and when our one PT person is off at her said time (she’s a sr engr not a PM), I have no issue with it, while I give the side eye to the other PM who works exactly 8 hours per day. The PT person is paid hourly and her flexibility was part of her job agreement, so it doesn’t bother me at all. You might find people are more understanding when the expectation is that you work reduced hours.

      2. Jerzy*

        I should add that when I took the job I was told there was flexibility in my schedule, in that, as long as my work was done, it’s no big deal if I have to leave to a doctor appointment or to take care of my sick kid, etc. However, the culture here is one of people who always work late, work weekends, and rarely take time for themselves. It’s very different from what I was told to expect, and I feel like when I have to stop work at 5 on the dot to pick up my kid from daycare, I’m being seen as a less than stellar worker, despite the quality of my work being good.

  65. Anon for this*

    Any idea what job title I should look for? I have loads of SQL experience, programming experience, basic data analysis skills, but I’m not a statistician or programmer by education or trade. I really like doing the analysis part of my current job, and would like to do it more of the time. (Willing to learn stuff before I make a change, too. Also, I have decent soft skills.)

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Database manager? I did that for a while. Find a large secondary school or a higher ed admin office.

    2. Bernease*

      Some to consider:
      1. data scientist (more heavily statistics)
      2. data/business analyst (SQL + analysis)
      3. data engineer (HEAVY SQL + databases)
      4. technical project manager role fits at some companies/teams.

      I’m on my phone now, but happy to point you to more resources and other areas.

    4. Camellia*

      Business Systems Analyst (BSA). This is an IT title. Search for it on job sites and read the descriptions to see if it fits. May also be posted as Systems Analyst.

      Note that this is different from Business Analyst (BA). They are on the business side of the house and are usually the ones who talk to the BSAs.

  66. Lizzy*

    So after a hellish year, I was let go from my job due to the organization’s financial problems. And you know what? I am actually relieved.

    I was poorly managed, never given clear expectations, never properly trained, often had to clean up the mess of previous staff (very high turnover, particularly in my position), and was never given the chance to thrive or grow in my role. I mentally checked out months ago and had a feeling for awhile now that something bad was going to happen. Thankfully, that constant dread is now gone.

    Most of all, I won’t miss being treated like crap by the Board President, who held a strong dislike for me. When she took over for my supervisor who was out on maternity leave over the summer–yes, the org is that small and dysfunctional–she told a coworker to purposely keep me out of the loop on key projects.

    Of course, along with this relief there is some bitterness and resentment. There were expectations for my role to help the organization grow. But it was impossible to accomplish since self-sabotage seems to be part of the culture. For instance, my now ex-org received a couple multi-year capacity building grants that were finishing up by the time I had started my position. When I worked on the reports, there were so much inaccurate information (goes back to the high turnover), large chunks of money were unaccounted for, and I don’t think ex-org followed through with anything that was proposed. I doubt these foundations will invite ex-org back to submit future proposals. And don’t get me started on the annual giving campaign, which was one of the key projects I was kept out of. After leadership stalled, it was finally launched 3 months before the end of ex-org’s fiscal year. Yet the Board was still shocked that in 3 measly months ex-org didn’t raise a lofty amount that takes up to a year to achieve.

    I could go on and on about everything ex-org did wrong, but I am free from this nonsense.

    1. AFT123*

      WOW!! Big changes for you. I’m sorry that you had to go through all this crap, but happy that you feel some relief.

      1. Lizzy*

        Thanks! Being laid off is hard, but I often hear stories about it being a blessing in disguise for many people; this definitely applies here. Ex-org is a sinking ship. They put on wonderful programs and performances and have partnered with really high profile organizations (which saves them $ for production costs), but they are inefficient from an administrative standpoint. Specifically, they don’t know how to sustain or grow. When they get opportunities for growth, like the capacity building grants, they blow it. I think it is why I am relieved: I no longer have to keep pretending I can do my job properly when it wasn’t possible.

        I mentioned in the best/worst thread that I have already a temp gig lined up with a foundation. Coincidentally, it was one of the foundations that funded a capacity building grant that ex-org dropped the ball on.

  67. TheExchequer*

    Best/worst of your week?

    Best is that I’ve gotten a ton of stuff done with some of the office at a trade show.

    Worst is that my coworkers in the next cubicle insist on spending egregious amounts of time on trying to get someone to wear a turkey costume to the Thanksgiving dinner we’re having.

    1. Lizzy*

      Worst: Was laid off from my job.

      Best: Was able to get in touch with a temp agency I have worked for in the past and have my first temp job lined up for next week at a very large and prestigious foundation that is on my list places I want to work at. It is only 2 weeks, but I am excited to get my foot in the door and get the experience.

    2. AFT123*

      Best – Completed a presentation I was really nervous for, and did pretty well! I could have done better, but given the circumstances, I was happy with my performance.

      Worst – one of my favorite co-workers quit this week. I’m so happy for her success and getting a new role, but I’ll be sad not to talk to her on a daily basis.

      1. Keeping Secrets*

        Worst: I’m part of a team that works behind the scenes to make sure new hires are ready on their first day. We have a new higher up starting Monday (which was not told to the team he would be managing). However, we did not know it was meant to be a secret, and an IT guy let it slip and lead to a lot of people being talked to by HR. Now someone on that team is pestering me for information which I cannot and will not provide.

        Best: It’s Friday… it’s been a terrible week at home and at work. Looking forward to the weekend!

    3. Beezus*

      Best: I’ve been working with an old boss’s team on some issues this week, and she just emailed me to tell me that my new role suits me well and I’m doing a good job. She told my manager, too!

      Worst: Lots of changes are afoot here, and my to-do list has exploded. I need to have a sitdown with the boss and triage it. I hate those conversations, but I always feel better afterward.

    4. Allie*

      Best: I got a raise! It’s especially timely given that I recently turned down a competing offer for a company that would’ve given me the same salary bump, but had way too many yellow flags for me to proceed with. Getting a raise at my current job confirms I made the right decision to stay where I am.

      Worst: Not me specifically, but my fiance got turned down for two separate internal roles that opened up. In the past, his team has typically always promoted from within, and it was also in his official goals document that he was on track for a promotion within the year. So when the roles initially opened up his managers told him he had a promotion of some kind in the bag and said they were really only interviewing him as a formality.
      However, this week his managers did an about-face and basically said, “sorry, but *no* internal employees are going to get promoted into either open role, because the external candidates are just too amazing and no one on our team is at their level.”

      Ugh. I know it’s not personal and that you can never assume you have a job until you at least have an offer. Sadly, I also know how discouraged my fiance must be to have the rug pulled out from under him :/ Back to the drawing board I guess.

    5. Not Myself*

      Best – confirmed that I’m preggers and got an unexpected $2000 award. Good week. :)

      Worst – morning sick, but trying to hide pregnancy from coworkers for now so just having to tough it out miserably…

    6. Anie*

      Worst: Vacation is over! :(

      Best: COO proposed a raise for me. Not a for-sure, but it’s being discussed with the owner.

    7. Nashira*

      Best: I wrote a couple great cover letters this week and submitted an app. My university is hosting a meet and greet for that employer next week, so I’m waiting til after to submit the other app. I hope I get a chance for some facetime with some of their hiring staff.

      Worst: Trying to work with jerkbrain is just the worst. Especially when the office is collectively short by 15% on staff.

    8. Rebecca in Dallas*

      Best: Saw a chiropractor and got a massage this week.

      Worst: I have had awful sinus headaches all week. Literally every morning (except for Tuesday) I woke up in pain. So I’ve been extra grouchy and my cube neighbor is driving me INSANE!

    9. Gene*

      Worst – Sick all week, but still worked out in the weather because it had to be done. It’s sinus/allergy related, but been a really tiring week.

      Best – The new Office Kitty has just decided that being with humans is (mostly) OK. It was another apparent dump job out here and has taken 4-5 months to start trusting (mostly). Right now it’s sleeping on boss’s desk.

      2. afiendishthingy*

        I was just thinking the other day that my kitty Fran would be an awesome Office Kitty. She would be freaked out at first but once she realized how many laps there were to sit on she’d be thrilled. Girl loves a good lap.

        I’d be worried about her getting outside by mistake, though – we’re by a busy intersection – and my other kitty Nelson would be very lonely by himself at home all day, and he would definitely not do well at the office. STRANGER DANGER

    10. Carmen Sandiego JD*

      Worst: Scores come out in 7 minutes, and I probably failed the bar exam (for the fourth time). Eeep.
      Best: I am a few weeks into my awesome Senior Teapot role, making enough money with a 401k and matching(!) and majoring telework. I also coauthored an article in a well-known journal with Ivy League-esque scientists. And this comes after a horrible last year of a project manager from hell who put me on a PIP because he felt threatened by my success. (Looked him up on linkedin now–most of my friends/past coworkers like myself are super successful in more advanced roles elsewhere, and he’s still stuck there in his same role, zero job progression).

      I know it sounds as if I’m rubbing it in, but he did truly make my time working for him truly horrifyingly miserable (he would insult me behind my back yet leave the door open so I could hear *every* word, and blamed every error on me, even though I had proof it was a neurosurgeon who made all the errors). Ha. HA.

      Who’s laughing now??? -Senior Teapot….

    11. Elizabeth West*

      Worst: My back decided to be a jerk and pull its I’m-going-to-be-unusable-for-a-week bullsheet. Whoever invented those disposable heating pad things you wear was a genius. They made sitting in my office chair slightly more tolerable. I’m working from home today so I can baby it.

      Best: Forgot we get next Wednesday off (Veterans Day) and that’s my day to do front desk at lunch, so I don’t have to. Yay!

    12. Hellanon*

      Best: promotion! Taking over Boss’s job when she retires. It’s a stretch in some ways but I think (and higher-ups seem to agree) that I’m a good fit. See also: willing to do it.

      2nd best: Good Friend’s pathology report (cancer surgery last week) was clean, no chemo or radiation needed.

      Worst: Still no sign of rain, but they tell us it’s coming……..

    13. NicoleK*

      Best: had a job interview this week
      Worst: still waiting for news from the first place i’ve interviewed at

  68. Felix*

    Songza playlist suggestions for work? I’m in a rut and keep listening to the same couple, but am getting bored! I need something mellow so I can stay focused. Current favorits are: “Indie morning” “Indie yoga” and “Mellow Indie.” (Very open to non-indie mixes!) thanks!

    1. Mockingjay*

      I like movie scores. Right now I am playing “the Martian,” Harry Gregson-Williams, composer.

      You can look by movie or composer.

      1. AFT123*

        What a great, out-of-the-box suggestion! You’ll get a kick out of this – our local Orchestra Hall has a series where they’ll play the entire score to a movie, while the movie plays on a movie screen. It’s awesome! On Halloween I went and saw “The Nightmare Before Christmas” and it was great – the conductor was dressed as the Corpse Bride. I’m going to “Home Alone” in a few weeks too. I hope they do more of these – it’s so cool seeing and hearing the score played live.

        2. Elizabeth West*

          Scores are ALL I listen to. :)

          This is exactly what I went to in April at Royal Albert Hall in London with Titanic. My soundtrack nerd friends from Europe and I met up and attended. The first time I saw anyone do this was the last reel of E.T. at Hollywood Bowl, with John Williams conducting the L.A. Philharmonic. :)

          Video of James Horner and James Cameron’s bro hug:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9eMXzbegX8

          Soundtracks and scores make great music for writing, editing, concentrating, etc. I also recommend classical, especially piano music because it’s usually not as dynamic as a whole orchestral score and doesn’t jar you with huge crescendos (mostly). Ludovico Einaudi is a good modern piano composer to check out.

    2. cuppa*

      Accuradio has a lot of great stations that would probably be up your alley and you can access it from a browser.

    3. Natalie*

      Songza has a couple of good bluegrass stations, if you like bluegrass.

      I also found their “park” and “coffee shop” background stations were fantastically helpful when I just needed to block out co-worker noise.

  69. ToughSpot*

    Just finished a 6 month non-profit fundraising contract, small team, collective structure. Former coworker contacted me about a potential fundraising gig at a different NPO, asked for a CV. I didn’t have any details about the gig/org at this point but sent over the CV because I trust the coworker. Got a call from the org, some vague details – it’s a sick leave replacement, no guarantee of more than about a month’s work. Went for an interview because what the hell? The interview was an hour long, questions were unrealistic, still not 100% clear on what the job will involve mostly because they aren’t clear on how long they’ll need to keep me for…and on top of it, it’s an office tower/business-y non profit where most of my experience is grassroots work and I feel like I’m pretty out of my league. They offered me the job, I accepted because I’m desperate for work but I am dreading the first day.

    My Q is this: my gut says this job is going to be all wrong for me, and that I’m in over my head in a chaotic environment where I don’t even have a full job description and my new supervisor just informed me she will be away at a conference for day 2 and 3 of my contract….Is this bad news? Should I walk away before having to quit midway through the contract if I find a more permanent & suitable position, potentially screwing them over/burning a bridge? Or keep the gig and learn a lesson? I’m still pretty new to professional work in the field and honestly would rather be doing frontline work than fundraising but I don’t have as much experience in that. Thoughts????

    1. misspiggy*

      I’d stick with it for now. If they can’t guarantee you more than a month’s work, it shouldn’t be burning a bridge if you leave in a month or so. Go in with low expectations and glean whatever you can from it in terms of experience.

  70. AnonPi*

    I’m pretty miserable and not in a good place today. Well, a lot of days. I had a good shot at a job, until interview #4 (I won’t go into details but I’ve never jumped through so many hoops for a job, esp an admin job). They narrowed it down to 3 finalists for 2 positions and couldn’t decide (which all I could think of was really? you can’t decide which 2 you want?), so had us come back in last wk for another interview with a program director. It went bad (she decided off the bat that I should consider being a high school teacher and went on for like 10 mins about it), didn’t like the question I asked, she didn’t really know much about the job, and well, yeah, just bad overall. I had hoped that my other good interviews and refs would outweigh that, but it doesn’t look like I’m being considered (I was supposed to hear Wed if I were to get an offer). It’s not final but at this point I think it’s a no go. It sucks even more knowing I was that close to getting it.

    I feel like I’ve hit a brick wall. I’m so sick of applying and interviewing for jobs (it’s been 2+ years, countless apps and interviews but not one offer – a lot of ‘close calls’, and ‘you were our 2nd choice’ but never that final step). And I’m tired of the constant threat of being let go from my contract job (once again, up for renewal at the end of the year and told “we just don’t know if we can renew you or hire you, we’ll try to let you know more than a few days beforehand” even though I’ve been 7+ years). Not to mention the toxic work environment. I have so much going on w/ my life anyways, that the stress of bad job/looking for new job is getting to me. I’m probably borderline depressed if not full on at this point and just, I don’t know. The thought of even looking at one more job posting makes me want to cry. Has anyone else been through this? How did you cope with it?

    1. Jennifer*

      Still there, and…all you can do is continue to live on with no hope, unfortunately. What else is there?

    2. Overeducated and underemployed*

      I’m so sorry! I sometimes feel pretty grim about it as well. I have had to take most of a week off applying for jobs because I couldn’t muster up enough enthusiasm to write a cover letter, and I feel like I’ve been anxiously scouring job postings and finding very little. It’s really tough. I have a couple of friends who have just found good permanent positions after 2+ years of searching, so that is my light at the end of the tunnel. I keep trying to tell myself it’s a marathon, not a sprint, so it’s ok to take a breather.

    3. Mirilla*

      I know yow you feel. Working at a toxic job drains the energy you need to job search anyway, so when you get that close to an offer, it’s beyond frustrating. I think of it this way though. There was a job (before my current toxic job!) that I wanted terribly, and I was in the final stage against one other person, but I didn’t get it. Looking back I realize that it worked out for the best, however at the time it was awful. I remember crying when I got off the phone with her. I just think “That job wasn’t meant for me” and try to stay positive. I think the mind issue/motivation is half the battle when you’re job searching.

  71. Liz W.*

    I just received this email from HR:
    You have been chosen to participate in a very dynamic and lively Team Building program that will be held at the plant on Saturday, 12/5 from 8 AM – 12 PM with lunch to follow. The program will be a very interactive and participatory event that will conclude with each team building a bike that we will donate to our [Charity] children that we adopt. This is an excellent team building event with 6 different activities planned during the day and some excellent take away messages for developing stronger teams within our organization. At the same time, we will be helping local kids!
    Please arrive a tad before 8:00 AM. No later. We will be setting up teams and organizing the events right away.
    Dress is very casual, ideally jeans. Make sure you wear sneakers or shoes that you can move around in easily. There will be videos and pictures taken.

    Please mark your calendars and make plans to attend. If you cannot attend for some reason, please let HR MGR or Plant MGR know ASAP.

    Ummm…NO?!? 1) I do not support [Charity]. 2) There is no indication that non-exempts will be reimbursed for their time…HR MGR out till Monday so I have time to cool off before I respond.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      8 AM on a Saturday?! GROSS.

      Hopefully it’s just HR thinking this is a good idea and your manager won’t press you to attend. If your boss is a reasonable person, I’d just say “so sorry to miss it, I’ll be away that weekend.” Even if “away” just means “away from this silly, silly idea.”

    3. Mockingjay*

      To me, ‘You have been chosen’ reads as: ‘Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.’

    4. T3k*

      Oh jeez, no. 8am is bad enough, but to take up someone’s weekend as well? I’d say something along the lines of “sorry, but I have plans that day.”

    5. TWIG*

      But will there be team building involved? I don’t know if the email was clear enough!

      Sarcasm aside: 8am on a Saturday??????

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        Sarcasm aside: 8am on a Saturday??????

        I’ve seen these build-a-bike charity things done as team building events, but never on a Saturday morning. I have a feeling that there is a Xmas party that afternoon/evening for the bike recipients, which the employees will not be attending.

        1. Nother Name*

          I feel it might be a little mean to give children bikes built by grumpy (or alternatively, overenthusiastic) employees who might or might not have any real mechanical skill, but that’s just me…

          1. Not So NewReader*

            I really hope someone who knows what they are doing tests/checks the bikes before a kid gets on it.

    6. misspiggy*

      I would recuse myself because my mechanical skills are so poor that any bike I was involved in building would be highly unsafe for a child. What kind of liability insurance do they have in case these bikes collapse?

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        Usually, there are bike technicians from local shops who check the bikes over, make sure they have been put together correctly/safely and tweak them. I know because I asked the same question and that was the answer I was given, then I saw them do it. Because you’re right, no one has that much insurance.

    9. Liz W.*

      My reply (after 2 days to cool off and getting my supervisor’s blessing:

      Good morning HR MGR,
      I appreciate the opportunity for a half-day’s overtime right before Christmas; however I have plans for that day and will be unable to attend.
      Is there any way to schedule this event during regular working hours?
      Thank you,

  72. Anon from the moon*

    I have a half vent half question.

    The vent: My boss does not care about anyone else’s time. We are an extremely small organization and he is the head of it (answers to the board) and it is pretty clear that he doesn’t care about the time of the employees. He will write completely unrelated emails during conference calls (that he initiates), will take any call that comes in on his cell phone during a meeting, things like that. It is annoying, but he is the boss so I just try and deal and remember that his time is valuable and he is busy (although it is more the attitude than the actual behavior itself that bugs me).
    But this kind of thing also happens with other people – like the web developers we were interviewing, contacts of his, and occasionally board members of ours. He is often late to meetings because he is out at another engagement or isn’t in the office for the day. Or he keeps people waiting because he is on a call in his office, or wanders out in the middle of a meeting to take a call without any explanation. And when I say late, I mean like half an hour to an hour late, not just a few minutes. He also expects people to be sitting by their phones or email addresses at all times and be available for calls or interviews at extremely short notice, although he has no problem rescheduling (or asking me to reschedule) meetings multiple times. It is really bad behavior and I have learned a lot about what not to do in processional settings.
    The question: How do I talk to or deal with these people in the moment? I am not a receptionist or his personal assistant, but I sit in the more open area of our office (we are the only 2 employees on site) and he has his own office that is more closed off. I often have to deal with visitors looking for him while he is not in the building even though he was supposed to be back already or on a call in the other room saying that “it will only take a minute”. I try to be pleasant and say that he will be back soon but time drags on and I am horribly embarrassed that they are kept waiting. I try and contact him if possible but there is only so much I can do if he says he is on his way. I don’t want to be overly apologetic or say anything negative about my boss but I hate having to treat people like this. Similarly with being asked to reschedule meetings or set up meetings at the last minute. I feel like it is completely unprofessional but I don’t really have a choice.

  73. Luna*

    My boss quit this week with no warning. Yep. Literally just came in one day then half an hour later packed up her stuff and left without a word. We thought she had gone on a client visit or something but nope, she’s quit.

    Now I really do have to start working towards getting a new job. She may have had her flaws but she was the one who pushed me to develop myself as a trainer. Maybe it’s time I did that HR qualification…

    2. A. Thrope*

      My previous manager did something similar. He was basically accused of lying by higher ups (or that’s his story, I don’t have theirs, obviously) and he just said fine. I’m leaving, effective 2 weeks from now. They then decided that his last day should be that day and he was gone. He wasn’t the best manager either, but he had our backs and was willing to stand up for us and tell upper management when they were wrong. His replacement is… less so. That was in April. I was already looking, still looking. No end in sight. :( Hope you have an easier time!

    3. Allie*

      Something similar happened to me earlier this year. My former boss took 3 weeks’ off to visit family, and the Sunday night before she was due to come back sent me an email with subject line: “I resigned.” I kind of knew *something* was going to happen because I noticed her gradually taking down some of her calendars, personal photos etc. the week before she left for PTO, but I guess I expected she’d at least come back and then give notice. Oh well.

      You have my sympathies – hopefully everything works out well for you, whatever you decide on doing.

      1. Luna*

        Thanks – it’s spurred me on to consider retraining as an HR person. I’m more on the learning and development side so I need to learn how to do the people wrangling thing. Fortunately there’s a good few courses around so I shouldn’t have much trouble finding one that suits me. I’m not sure I could get an HR job without the qualification but hey, it’s something to work towards.

  74. CheeryO*

    Any advice on how to be more assertive in meetings (and at work in general)? I have been in my current job for almost a year, and I’ve gotten feedback from a couple people that I need to speak up more (from peers, not my boss). I am quiet to begin with, and I tend to feel overwhelmed easily, like I need to use 100 percent of my brain for absorbing what’s going on, without leaving anything left for formulating my reaction to things or coming up with good questions or talking points. I might be overestimating how bad it is, but lately I have started to get the feeling that I’m really coming up short, and I want to get better so I don’t end up being known as a total doormat…

      1. CheeryO*

        Thanks for the article! I definitely think more targeted preparation will help me. And I love the newscaster advice, too. I’ve noticed that I tend to include all kinds of hedging language (kinda, sorta, I think), and it just makes me cringe. I think I’m getting a little better in that respect.

    2. Allie*

      I’d suggest that you ask questions anyway, even if you think they’re not “good” questions. You might not think they’re good, but chances are high that someone else in the meeting might have had the same question and just didn’t want to speak up.
      Even if you think the answer is obvious or the question isn’t needed, as long as the question isn’t totally off-base, you can ask and still make the impression that you’ve contributed to the meeting and gotten your voice out there.

      Good luck – I’ve gotten the same feedback and I’m also working on this issue.

      1. CheeryO*

        Yes, there have definitely been times when I didn’t ask a question, only for someone else to ask it later and have it turn into a good discussion. I have to work on just asking even if the thought is only 75% formed.

  75. Anon31*

    Sent this in to Alison a few days ago but hopefully you guys can weigh in:

    There’s a company I’ve always been dying to work for in the music industry. I don’t work in the music industry currently, but I am a marketing manager and have a lot of the skills I would need for a music marketing position.

    I was recently on this company’s site and noticed that the “About Us” copy on their home page, while very descriptive about what sets the company apart, contained a number of grammar and wording errors. One of my best skills is editing marketing copy, and I took a stab at tweaking this message. I left the vast majority of what they had, just cleaned it up a bit and made it sound a lot more compelling (in my opinion) without changing any of their key messages.

    They don’t currently have any positions posted except for one unpaid internship, but I know they often hire/advertise via word of mouth so it’s possible they could have openings. Either way, I’d like to be on their radar. Is there a non-obnoxious way I can offer this edited copy to them as a writing sample? I was thinking of phrasing an email along the lines of “I admire your company and visit your website from time to time to keep up with your news and job openings. I really like the way you set yourselves apart in the industry, and I noticed the copy on your home page could make you sound even more awesome with a few small wording changes. As a marketer and a writer, here’s what I’d suggest. Feel free to use it if you wish, and I’m attaching my resume in case you’d ever like to talk further.”

    Obviously I’d polish the message a bit but is this something that you think is okay to do or would it hurt me in some way? If they don’t respond to it, I obviously would not try to pester them or anything. If you do think I should send it, should it go to their general “info” email address on their site? I am connected via LinkedIn to one of the company’s owners, but we’ve only met in passing once years ago so not sure if it would be annoying/too pushy to send it directly to her LinkedIn or email.

    1. mander*

      My instinct would be to try it! You’re not currently working in that industry and there’s no open job posting, so this kind of thing might be an ideal opening for a cold letter.

      But be very careful with the way you word it.

    2. Dynamic Beige*

      Honestly, I’ve sent in comments like that to companies I have no interest in working in when the spelling/typo was really bad… and people usually respond if only to say thanks. Usually they don’t have a clue that there was the issue.

      The only thing I can say is do it. If you get nothing from it, you already have that. You’ve done free work for them, which is usually not a good idea, but you never know what is going to get your foot in the door. I have heard of people doing website teardowns, where they use a site, and comment on how it could be made better and then send that to the president/ceo/whoever at that company. Sometimes, it leads to a paying project. Other times, it leads to harsh words. You just don’t know how anyone is going to react to anything but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.

  76. OfficePrincess*

    I have an update on the situation with “Betsy” I asked about a few weeks ago (link to follow in a separate comment.) Unfortunately, it’s not good news, but it wasn’t unexpected either.

    We had the big picture conversation a few weeks ago. She agreed to work one of the two days she requested off. Now she has contacted me that a “family situation” (I don’t have details) has come up and she can’t work for the next several weeks. She doesn’t want to quit or get fired and hopes I have some magic solution. I don’t know if it’s a situation that would be FMLA applicable or not, but she hasn’t been here long enough to qualify. After talking to my boss, we agree that the solution is to find a replacement. We’re in our busiest time of year right now and we can’t be short 1 full person indefinitely (especially since her shift is the busiest shift). I feel bad for adding stress to what is probably an already difficult situation, but I’ve been more than accommodating up to this point, especially for someone who’s been here less than 9 months and was on a reduced schedule for 6.5 of those months.

    I wish there could have been a happier ending, but it doesn’t look possible anymore.

    2. AFT123*

      I think FMLA only applies after a year of employment, so you might be clear on that front. Sorry you’re in this position :(

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I agree. She has been using your company for a while now, time to say good-bye. She is showing you her work ethic and there is no reason to believe it will change in the future.

  77. Christian Troy*

    I have a question about reapplying for a higher level position when you turned down an entry level role:

    Last spring I applied and interviewed for a position that felt a bit entry level but I thought there was potential. Nothing weird happened during the interview process, but the job duties themselves sounded a bit vague and once again, I got the impression it was a bit more entry level than what I wanted.

    During the reference checks, some kind of weird and negative exchange occurred between the hiring manager and my reference. This bothered me a lot because my reference had one story and the hiring manager was acting weird and cagey about it. A few weeks passed and then they gave me an offer, which was really low. When I went back to negotiate I was met with the response that they hired my would be manager at x dollars/hr two months earlier and she didn’t negotiate and ask for relocation so I wouldn’t be able to do that either. I had to pass on the job because it was way too low to move so far away for.

    A few months later I found the would be manager on LinkedIn and she didn’t have a ton of direct experience so I felt somewhat relieved I didn’t take the job. But I found out today they reposted her position, which is a coordinator role and I’m assuming higher $$.

    Part of me wants to reapply but part of me feels like given the situation of pushback about salary and general weirdness with the hiring manager who oversees everyone, I just don’t know if it’s actually worth it. Plus even if I applied, how would the interview process work given I turned down the other job? I don’t know, I just feel a little regret maybe but I’m not sure if it’s warranted.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I’d skip this one. Not because of turning down the previous job, but because there seems to be quite a few yellow flags in the story about the first interview. I think you can find a better company.

  78. Dan*

    Following up on yeterday’s “things the recruiter told me” post…

    At my last job, we had both a “bonus” program and a “profit sharing” program. I had been there for about four years when we added a new person to my team. After he got comfortable with me, he showed me an email he sent the recruiter before he signed on. He asked, “Can you tell me what the average profit sharing has been over the last five years?” Response: 5%. Sound reasonable, right? Except that I had been there for four years, and never saw a dime. the only way that statement could have been mathematically true is if they had paid out 20% the year I wasn’t there. Which was 1) unlikely and 2) would be really misleading.

    Never mind that when this guy signed on, we had been bought and sold twice since the five year window began. So whatever happened way back when was really not relevant moving forward.

  79. squids*

    I’ve just been noticing how many readers on this site work in libraries, archives, and museums. Are we just super-predisposed to want to talk about our work? ;)

    1. AFT123*

      Interesting observation! I remember looking at the data awhile back about what AAM’s commentariat identified as their job titles and found it really interesting. My screen name used to be “The Lone Salesperson” because I was pretty sure I was the only on here in a Sales job. That isn’t the case obviously, haha. I have noticed we have tons of librarians here though!

    2. Tomato Frog*

      I’ve noticed this, too. The librarians don’t really surprise me, but archives is such a small profession! I think there’s just a lot of overlap of the type of people who read AAM and the type who go into archives.

    3. hermit crab*

      It does seem like there are lots of librarians! I’m not one, but I do volunteer in a library and I used to work in a museum, so I feel like I count halfway.

    4. FutureLibrarian*

      I think it’s the researcher in us, haha!

      Whenever I do anything, I research. That’s how I found AAM!

  80. GregF*

    I’ve been a manager at a medium sized direct services non-profit for the past 2 years. I recently discovered (through inadvertently opening a document) that a just-hired colleague of mine makes 150% of what I do. He is more experienced than me, but I’ve worked my butt off for the past 2 years and have received stellar performance evaluations. Although I LOVE my work, it’s deflating to know that there’s that much of a difference in pay for people at the same level of the organization given our size and relatively flat structure. I’ve talked to my boss about a raise for the past 6 months and there’s been no action. Any tips? Am I being grouchy or is this a real issue?

    1. Christian Troy*

      I have read that it’s generally easier to get a salary increase through a new position at a new company than to try to get one internal. I can’t remember the article but it was pretty recent.

    2. AFT123*

      Sorry you’re in this position GregF :( Unfortunately, this seems very common, at least in my experience. Like Christian Troy said, it’s generally a strategic move to leave a company to get a raise, sometimes even with the intent of going back to your original company so you can be brought in at a higher salary. I’ve also noticed that it seems really common for companies to not give raises at all, even annual cost of living raises, thereby forcing people to leave and come back if they want more money. It seems the trend is that up-front negotiations are more important than ever, because you may not see a raise for a very long time after being hired.

  81. Mimmy*

    Somewhat related to my question last week in the Open Thread:

    If you’re long-term unemployed and someone asks, “Where do you work?” I got that yesterday at a meeting, and I was like “ummm….” but then went into my explanation about what I AM doing.

    Rethinking going to my event tonight though (alumni reception). I know it’s a perfect networking opportunity, but I’m in a bit of a grumpy, icky mood at the moment. Probably cold feet. Hopefully a warm shower will help.

    1. AndersonDarling*

      I think a lot of unemployed people feel like there is a stigma about it, but it really is okay. Whenever someone says they are “between job,” “laid off,” or any other phrase, I completely understand. I have known so many great employees that were laid off, got fed up with their jobs and left, or were canned for crazy reasons that I think of “unemployed” as part of the career journey.
      It really comes down to how you talk about it. If you sound depressed and desperate then it can be off putting. But if you are positive and hopeful, then it is the same as talking about a job. You can talk about what you used to do and what kind of job you are looking for, and that will connect the past and the future as though the gap isn’t even there!

    2. K.*

      Definitely go to your alumni event. It’s a good networking opportunity, as you say, and it’s good to get out and be around people. I know firsthand how hard it can be to get out there; we tend to define ourselves by our jobs, and “What do you do?” is almost always the first question we ask when we meet someone new. But you should definitely go.

      I’m job-hunting after a layoff, and that’s what I say when people ask what I do or where I work. “I used to work in the [industry] sector, but after I was laid off I’ve been thinking about shifting gears …” People I’ve just met tend to react with sympathy when they hear layoff (post-Great Recession, everyone knows someone who was laid off), and then tend to take interest in what you either used to do or are thinking of doing. Also, if you frame it as a positive, people tend to respond to that. I wish I’d left my former employer on my terms instead of theirs but I was unhappy there and don’t miss it at all, and truly am excited about finding somewhere that’s a better fit (I just wish it would happen already!).

    3. Mimmy*

      Well, I just came back and I am SO glad I went!!! Made several connections, including reconnecting with someone I’d tried getting together with a few years ago but never panned out.

  82. Tiffany*

    How can I make myself more appealing for temp jobs?

    I’d love to keep being picky and take my time to find the right job, but the reality is I’ve got to find a job soon before I run out of money. So I’m looking for temp office work to get me by while I find the right job.

    I don’t technically have experience as a receptionist or an office assistant or anything like that, but I have no doubt that I’m more than capable of performing in such a role. My experience to-date is: 8 years of customer service/sales/tech support in a call center environment. I did this while in college (or in some years, while I wasting my life away doing nothing significant). I graduated in May and spent my entire senior year interning at a small nonprofit, which is ideally the work I’d like to get into. I’ve got some volunteer experience with doing marketing/social media work and a couple other things. So, I’ve got a bit of a melting pot of skills and knowledge.

    I always customize my resume to the role I’m applying for, but when it comes to these temp jobs I’m trying to get, I keep getting the ‘over-qualified’ feedback and can’t seem to get myself past it. What can I change on my resume to make it more appealing to these types of roles and maybe make it seem like I’m not over-qualified?

    1. AndersonDarling*

      They may not actually mean “overqualified,” they may be assuming you don’t want $9 an hour because you have such an extensive work history.
      I’d research to find the best temp agencies in your area and contact them directly. The best jobs will go to the temps they already have in their system. Get set up with the agency and you will have a better chance.
      Good Luck!

      1. K.*

        To add to this, once you’re registered, stay on their radar. I used to call my temp agencies (plural) first thing in the morning and check in – “Hi, I’m here, I’m ready to work.” In my experience the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and once you’re placed somewhere and do well they start thinking of you first. Work begets work.

  83. NKW*

    When interviewing people for internships or very entry-level positions, what kinds of questions do you ask to try to screen for entitlement/a risk of folks getting too big for their britches?

    1. coyote_fan*

      Ask what their 5 year goals are. If they think they will be managing a team of 20 within that time-frame you know they probably have some goals that are not realistic in most cases.

    2. Lillian McGee*

      I say that sometimes we have unarguably tedious tasks that need to get done, like scanning and checking voicemails and “Do you have a strong aversion to occasional tedium?” My favorite answer was one person who was like, “Oh no! I love that kind of stuff sometimes. I find it soothing.”

    3. Clever Name*

      Have an idea of what qualities a successful worker in that role would have. For a position I hired for, we were looking for a scientific field technician. I thought about what qualities a good field tech needs (I came up with: a degree in our discipline, a person who is willing to work hard outdoors in sometimes crappy weather without complaining too much, and someone who is capable of doing minimal problem solving on their own so they aren’t calling the PM every time they hit a minor snag). I screened for these qualities by looking at any prior jobs they’ve had and asking questions about what they did in their classes, and I asked questions trying to get an idea of their problem solving skills. The guy we hired is great. :)

  84. Go Eagles!*

    I have a performance evaluation coming up with my boss. By our organization’s practice, our HR manager joins every performance evaluation. However, this person is my colleague and on the same level of me on the org chart. I think it’s inappropriate and sets up an odd power dynamic if he’s there. I’d prefer just to meet with my boss alone. Am I right to push back against our current practice?

    1. Thinking out loud*

      On my opinion, no. HR is there to support the conversation and ensure that they are consistent across the company – they are not there to act in a supervisory position over you.

  85. Staff Meeting*

    My part-time retail job is holding 3 staff meetings next week, but we only have to attend one. My main job conflicts with 2 of them; the third is scheduled at a weird and rather just plain inconvenient time on my day off – 2pm on Saturday. I find that to be a bit rude since many of us do not work on Saturdays plus to put it right in the middle of the day. I was thinking of doing something that day. Do I now have to put my whole day on hold for a 2pm meeting?

    Also, since I’m an hourly employee there, do they have to pay me for the meeting?

    1. Not Karen*

      Yes, they have to pay your for the meeting.

      Honestly, they probably scheduled it at a time when most people aren’t working on purpose so they could attend the meeting instead of working.

  86. PitaChips*

    I finally stood up to my meddling coworker! She constantly comments on my outfits, hair, etc. and I try to ignore it, but last Friday she went over the line.

    I wear a size 0 or 00, but I hate people commenting on that – that’s my business, not theirs. She said, “You look skinnier than ever – look at how skinny you look today! Jane, doesn’t she look super skinny today? Have we lost weight, dear?” So after agonizing over it for a few hours, I went into her office and told her that I did not like people commenting on my size and that she needed to stop. She (poorly) apologized, so I’ll see if she sticks with it.

    The poor apology included 1) “oh but it’s a compliment,” 2) “most people would be thrilled,” and 3) “I thought you dressed the way you do to show off.” Umm, no, I wear clothes that fit me?

    1. Nervous Accountant*

      I may have missed any comments about this before from previous open threads. I would probably have made the same excuse/reasoning, that saying someone is slim and lost weight is a compliment because of the way it’s presented in our culture….but I can definitely see how annoying it is for someone to constantly focus on a person’s weight or clothes etc regardless of how nice it looks.

    3. Shishimai*

      Oh good heavens, PitaChips, that sounds awful! I hope she sticks the apology and doesn’t continue.

      Also, “have WE lost weight, dear?” How condescending can this person get? Ugh.

      1. Nanc*

        My Grandpa always responded (especially to healthcare folks who did the “We” thing) “What’s this We? You have a mouse in your pocket?”

    4. Jillociraptor*

      Just. Don’t. Talk. About. People’s. Bodies. At. Work. (Or, ideally, ever!)

      Ugh, PitaChips, that is the worst. Way to be direct! I hope that she does stick with it and let you be.

    5. FiveWheels*

      I hate this, especially when it comes from people who talk endlessly about trying to lose weight. I have no idea what I’m meant to say. “You’re so thin!” “Err yes, you aren’t?”

      1. afiendishthingy*

        I’ve gotten, from a man (whom I know but not that well), “What do you weigh, like 90 pounds? [no.] I want to just pick you up!” Cause that won’t make a woman feel unpleasantly vulnerable or condescended to at all.

    6. Rebecca in Dallas*

      I have this same problem! One of our admins constantly comments on my weight. She’s from a different culture, so I’ve mostly chalked it up to that. And I think she really thinks she’s being complimentary! But it makes me so uncomfortable, I end up just changing the subject.

      Good for you for saying something! Hope she really does stop.

    7. afiendishthingy*

      3) “I thought you dressed the way you do to show off.

      What the heck? It’s not like you would have objected to “I love that dress, that color looks great on you!” People are absurd. Good for you for standing up to her.

  87. De Minimis*

    So I’ve been at my new job nearly a month. Some things I like, some I don’t. I dislike the temp who is supposed to be training me, and that makes it tough. She’s leaving pretty soon though. Just really non-professional in her demeanor and tough to work with. I know there will be a lot of problems after she leaves but I’d rather put up with it than have her here.

    They aren’t doing the best job at training me, but I’m trying to make up for it by really looking at anything I can from past years. There’s another person here I don’t like a lot either, there just seems to be an expectation that I already know things I would have no way of knowing. I like my immediate supervisor, but he is a little too hands-off as far as training and I think expects me to know more than I actually do. We will have to work things out more in later months.

    Still have the occasional bout of panic and fear that they’re going to fire me, it’ll probably be a while before I feel comfortable enough for that to go away. I guess that is something I’m always going to have to deal with, former workplace PTSD.

    1. De Minimis*

      Oh, and this is one of those non-profits where employees are expected to donate money to their employer during a fund drive each year….guess they rely on employee participation as evidence of the organization’s commitment in order to woo outside donors. Not really pressure to donate a large amount, but pressure that you have to donate something. Find it annoying but it’s how the game is played here.

    2. Stephanie*

      Yeah…I get what you mean about the training. My last couple of jobs had super structured, long training classes. This job…it’s just when my boss remembers to tell me something. He realized he hadn’t been doing a lot of training and our busy season was nearing. Of course, not much changed and I’m still in report monkey limbo and only kind of ok with what my job is supposed to be.

  88. Stephanie*

    So my coworker’s been out the last two nights…and it’s been great. I don’t have any issues with him, but he’ll blast music out speakers (there are separate speakers plugged into the computer). It’s loud enough that you can’t really ignore it (especially when it’s like heavy metal). I thought about asking him to turn it down, but it’s an established thing and I could see it being like “Stephanie is just a killjoy who wants the office to be silent.” (There’s Country Music Fridays, which everyone enjoys but me.)

    1. Elizabeth the Ginger*

      Does he frequently-enough listen to music you find more tolerable than heavy metal that you could ask him to play that genre instead? You could even frame it as a positive request. “Hey, I enjoyed that Decemberists album you played the other day. Do you have any more like that?”

    2. ThursdaysGeek*

      I sympathize! I can block out most music, but country makes me want to kill something, preferably myself. Enjoy the quiet.

    3. Nanc*

      Tell them to play the country music backwards–your wife and your dog will come back, your daddy will get out of jail and the police will catch the guy who stole your pickup truck!

      1. Stephanie*

        LOL, literally. It’s far from my favorite genre, but I can tolerate it…just not when it drowns out what I’m listening to in my ear buds and I’m trying to crank out TPS reports.

  89. infj*

    I have a non-compete agreement in place with my current employer. I took it to an attorney to look at–he thinks its way too broad to be enforceable but i’m in a blue-pencil state so it could be essentially rewritten to be enforceable in court. I assert that they violated the terms of the contract in this way: the contract says that they will pay for me to take exam x, which I did and they did. But they attached a clawback and if i get a job offer (potential newjob said that they really like me and will let me know next week!), i’ll have to repay half. So in effect, if they take my check for half of the value of my exam, then they have voided the contract with the non-compete in it because they didn’t pay for exam x as agreed.

    Anyway, I found a thread from a while ago on here about non-competes generally. I’m wondering what people’s experiences have been. The attorney advised me not to disclose my non-compete unless asked because newjob might want to maintain plausible deniability. I think that is total BS and am setting myself up to get fired. They need to know the terms of hiring me and decide if its worth it. So I’m planning to disclose at the offer stage. I would have preferred to disclose earlier but the interviews all happened in one day, starting with big boss and going backwards to more junior staff. So there seemed no right time to bring it up.

    anyone who hires in an industry with non-competes? anyone who successfully got themselves out of one? thoughts on my worst case scenario (get fired from NewJob and barred from working for x amount of time, I assume)?

    1. edj3*

      I’ve always disclosed non-competes when they were still in effect. To me, if you don’t disclose, that’s a lack of integrity on your part.

      You might see if the non-complete is void if you are fired though.

      1. infj*

        there is practically no way to get fired here. plus they like me. i would have to do something seriously shocking to get fired within a timeframe to accept a new job.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      Back in the day, I worked at a big company that had non-competes. All the companies in the industry knew who did and did not have these restrictions, so it is possible that your destination company already knows.
      In my case, if a company really wanted to poach you, they suggested that you quit the current job and then “apply” to the new job that was waiting for you. I don’t know how well that worked, but it was how they did it.
      I’d definitely bring it up at the offer stage. It is possible that they already have a strategy in place to handle non-competes.

    3. Wonder Woman*

      The terms of your non-compete might specifically say that you have to disclose it to potential future employers, so I’d check that out. My current non-compete, and the one for my soon to be new job, both have such a clause in them.

      In my case, they asked right on the job application if I was subject to such an agreement, so it was easy. HR then needed me to send them a copy of the agreement to have their legal department sign off on it as one of the pre-employment contingencies. However, I am changing industries, so there wasn’t really any overlap anyway.

      1. infj*

        Nothing in about disclosing in the agreement but I’m definitely going to. I’m (hopefully) going from a tiny local 10-person operation to an enormous multinational organization so I think I have that in my favor. Plus the contract is so sloppily constructed, riddled with errors and broad, I don’t see anyone perceiving it as a problem–even before CurrentJob potentially voided the contract with the clawback (which I really hope they did).

    4. coyote_fan*

      Why not ask for the new company to cover the difference? I had my current company pay for part of the tuition reimbursement clawback provision I had.

      1. infj*

        Compared to the potential that they voided my contract that contains the non-compete clause, a couple thousand bucks is nothing to me. I’ll eat it in an instant to walk away from here with no strings attached. (don’t get me wrong, I’d rather have it both ways but if its the money or the contract, I’ll shell out the money. I have never spent it; it just sits in my checking account because I’ve been looking for a new job since before i took the exam)

        1. bridget*

          Is the clawback provision in the non-compete itself (or is the “attachment” incorporated into the non-compete)? If so, it’s probably part of the contract itself. They promised to pay for the exam subject to the clawback, so they wouldn’t be voiding the non-compete if they enforce the clawback.

          /IANYL

          1. infj*

            Hmmm. I signed the agreement 2 years ago when i got a promotion. Clawback didn’t come up until they issued my check for the exam. Anyway, i think im ok on several fronts but i would of prefer an ironclad ‘you violated the contract first.’ (Of course)

    5. Lindsay J*

      Honestly, from wat I understand most non-competes are legally unenforceable (they have to be narrow enough to not prevent you from being able to make a living in your field if you leave).

      And you have to evaluate whether if it is enforceable whether your company will find it worth it to take you to court to enforce it. Unless you’re poaching their assets (taking clients with you, are a manager and are taking your entire team with you, planning on starting a company using their training regimine/pricing strategy/whatever) they likely won’t think it is worth their time and money.

      My research indicates to me that they are generally nothing more than a scare tactic.

  90. Nervous Accountant*

    I think I had an emo breakdown yesterday and it’s not even tax season yet. I can’t say I have any friends at work. I’ve learned not to let it bother me… I usually eat lunch at my desk alone bc the break room is crowded and I dont’ feel welcome sitting there…but some days I just feel super lonely.

    I know work isn’t to make friends, but I see a lot of people hang out together and socialize and I’m not included in any of it. I’ve given up expecting anyone to invite me for lunch or coffee or outside socializing…
    There are some new examples but (in my eyes) they are very small and minor and I feel silly for even mentioning it now. Like everyone talks to each other and poke fun and stuff, and I’m never included in any conversations..

    A long time ago I was told by someone that when I join in on conversations going around, it made them think I was weird and thus not well liked. I cut down severely, and only join in when Im sure there’s nothing wrong wiht doing so… but I still feel awkward most of hte time now.

    I can’t even say that I’m super awesome at my job and therefore, a little bit entitled to being a jerk that it turns people off (I mean no one is entitled to be a jerk but you know sometimes confidence can be mistaken as being a jerk). I think I”m a funny, nice and interesting person. I don’t know what it is :(

    1. Sadsack*

      You’ve written here before about this. I am sorry you are so lonely at work. Any chance that the person who made those remarks to you is just an ass, and that was just her opinion? When there are others in the breakroom, why not just go and ask if you can join them?

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I know, I wrote about it before. I wonder–and I hate to say this–if it was PMS (I detest using that as an excuse but I usually get weepy rather than angry and mean).

        The person who told me was a friend before seh started working here (I helped her get hired here). Everyone in the office loves her and she’s very popular. She told me that a few people opened up to her and told her this and she relayed the msg to me (it wasn’t unsolicited, I had gotten weird vibes and asked her since she’s connected). She still talks to me occasionally but we definitely don’t go for lunch or coffee….after the first few times she refused, I stopped.

        I still do small talk, g-chat, say good morning most of the time etc. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable initiating with anyone anymore for fear of being rejected.

    2. jen*

      You are describing my situation a couple of jobs back. I’m just shy. Its hard for me to get to know people. So no one got to know me. I can specifically remember everyone around me talking about a party that our coworker held every year; it was coming up and I hadn’t been invited. It was like I wasnt even there.

      I had to start forcing myself to make small talk. Its easier one-on-one for me (rather than jumping into a group conversation or in the breakroom). “hey carrie, good morning, that shirt is a great color for you” etc. Years later, it has become a habit. Though I dont know if I could have reset mid-stream. It helped me to get a new job and really work hard at it. I’m not good friends with anyone at work now but we can all chat and I don’t feel excluded. And if someone had a party and invited all the coworkers, i think they would probably invite me too.

    3. Ad Astra*

      I can relate to this a bit. Would you feel comfortable asking a coworker to get lunch or something? Personally, I’ve been working on my small talk, which seems to come naturally to everyone in this office but me. And I look for opportunities to compliment people, like “I just love that blazer!” or “Oh my gosh, your lunch smells amazing, what is that?”

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Is this place large? Years ago, I could not hack large places with lots (dozens?) of people. Similar to what you are saying here, I felt like I was drowning in a sea of humanity. And I was very self-conscious, like you are indicating here.

      I was more introverted in those days, there were reasons for that (family issues). Additionally, I found that I needed to work for small places in order to get other things in my life pulled together. Another thing I found was that I had a lot of misconceptions about people – I had to unlearn those misconceptions and learn more about people. One thing I learned was that people like your friend who did that to you- is not really your friend. That can be tough to think about. It’s worth it, though, because it helps us to get a crisper definition of what a real friend looks like. And then when we meet a real friend we know it.

      My suggestion is make a trip to the library- find books on relationships, people skills, heck, I have even looked at etiquette books. (It’s interesting to see why etiquette came into being and how it has evolved.) Read a random group of books that catch your eye. My take away from all this reading was that MOST people feel self-conscious to some degree, they worry about stepping on toes, not fitting in and so on. Although the degree of worry may vary, many people have these concerns in common. It’s almost cruel, but I found my way out of my spot was to think more about making others comfortable and less about my own discomfort. Dang, I wanted to get more comfortable first, but nooo, that was not going to happen that way, at least in my life.

      If none of this makes sense for your setting, it could be that you just have a sucky work place. It’s hard to tell over the net. Have you had jobs that you flourished in? If yes, what was different between those jobs and this one?

  91. AnotherAlison*

    2 things:
    Battling with a client over whether an item is a change order is frustrating. I’ll leave it at that, but said client is a bully, and I hate these kinds of interactions.

    At the same time, I’m dealing with my son’s teacher on whether he can print or type certain assignments. It’s in his 504 plan that he gets extra time for writing and can type assignments, but it feels like the same argument. I’m having to prove something that’s already documented in black & white.

    I think the second issue will be resolved. The first one, I’m not so sure.

    1. jen*

      Change orders are one of the worst parts of my job. My kid isn’t in school yet so I can’t sympathize on that front.

    2. Observer*

      You actually have a teacher who is arguing about whether he can type assignments? BTDT, but that was a number of years ago. I didn’t think that this particular brand of stupidity had survived.

  92. wannabefreelancer*

    How do I deal with letting my “big boss” (Boss 1) know why something is not done in the most graceful way without throwing my “boss” (Boss 2) under the bus?

    I’m working on a project that requires authorization from Boss 2. It’s been sitting on her desk for 3 weeks. We brought it up again and she couldn’t remember that it was on her desk. I walked over there and handed it back to her. Still no response.

    I know Boss 1 is going to ask again, and I don’t want to be like, “I gave it to boss 2 and haven’t heard anything back yet” and sound like a turd. I’ve followed up with boss 2 multiple times already. Which is the best way to do this?

    1. whataweek*

      Honestly, there’s not much that you can do aside from simply recounting the facts in a neutral tone: “I have given it to Boss 2 for her signature, but she hasn’t got back to me yet.”

      It’s not “throwing someone under the bus” to point out the cold hard fact that they haven’t done something they should be doing!

    2. edj3*

      You can truthfully say that you are waiting for approval. If the Big Boss asks how long you’ve been waiting, then tell her. Those are facts.

    3. The Cosmic Avenger*

      When you go back to Boss 2 to prompt them, can you say, in as neutral, non-judgy tone as possible, something like “Boss 1 has been asking me about this, and I’m not sure what to tell her. Can you please take care of this now?” Invoking Boss 1 might help.

      Otherwise, I’d stay as neutral as possible, don’t volunteer too much detail: “Sorry, Boss 1, it’s still not done.” Then, if they ask why, you can direct them to Boss 2. They may feel “tattled on” either way, but Boss 2 can make her own excuses, you shouldn’t have to make them for her.

    4. Thinking out loud*

      I would go see Boss 2 and say, “Boss 1 has been asking about this project and it is waiting on your approval. I’d like to get it taken care of now – are you ready to sign now or do you have any remaining questions?” And then don’t leave until it’s approved.

  93. Anx*

    Does anyone have any tips for taking work home without working after hours? Yeah, it’s a bit of an oxymoron, but I’m stuck.

    I’m an hourly employee in education. I typically do work unpaid hours by nature of studying, reading, etc. Usually it’s a vague zone where I’m keeping my knowledge fresh or extending it for professional growth that I can carry throughout future careers while staying more up-to-date for my job. I feel like it’s very normal to study in your field, unpaid.

    But lately I’ve had an issue where some weeks, I’m lucky to have 2 or 3 hours of non-client facing time to actually develop sessions and study materials. I feel like it’s great that I’m so busy, but I can feel like I’m losing some of my groups’ attention because I don’t have time to prepare. I don’t foresee getting more hours to compensate. I feel pretty guilty, because I had almost no client time all summer, but I didn’t prepare enough for this semester (to be fair to myself, it’s very difficult to keep preparing for sessions that don’t occur, and I didn’t have the study materials available for some of the courses).

    Under what circumstances can I keep working unpaid and what do you think crosses the line? Is reading the book okay, but not making study guides? What about using my own guides from my own classes?

    Also, if I spend less than 7 minutes a week on emails after hours, do you think that’s okay (we only record our time worked in 15 minute intervals)? I hate to spend so much time working on material, only to feel like I can’t send an email out because I’m technically off the clock, even if it only takes a few seconds to find a file and attach it (yet during some work days I really can’t get to the computer or to my email in that amount of time).

    I know I’m not helping the plight of education professionals having to work so many hours without pay in their salary or stipended jobs, but I also can’t afford not to be good at my job and I’m not smart enough or well prepared enough at this very moment to do my best.

    1. afiendishthingy*

      Yeah, if there’s a good solution there I didn’t find it when I was in your situation. I went back and forth between “I’m going to do it unpaid because I’ll feel better not feeling so behind” and “screw it, I’ll prep when a student’s absent and we’re overstaffed.” So no advice, but I feel your pain.

  94. sprinkles!*

    So I have a funny yet disturbing internal interview story to share.

    We are filling a position on our team that requires someone to get up to speed very quickly and contribute quickly as well. I interviewed an internal candidate (Marla) earlier this week. I asked pretty standard questions, but Marla failed to fully answer them. For example, I asked her what transferable skills she could bring to this role. Her response was something along the lines of having traveled to the city of our company’s headquarters frequently. :/

    When I asked if she had any questions for me about the role or team, she replied, “I just want to know all. About. YOU!” She then proceeded to tell me that she stalked me online and found what state I’m originally from. She then talked about how she is an expert in my home state because she has lots of family from there but she has never lived there. The fact that she had no questions related to the job itself was concerning. On top of that, her personality came across as very disingenuous.

    This person is in their late 40s/early 50s so I would think they would have a handle on interviewing by now. My boss is really enthusiastic about Marla but I’m the one that had to work with her on a daily basis and I’m concerned. Ive also gotten word that Marla doesnt have a great work ethic and is known for bamboozling people ratjer than actually doing real work. I’ve expressed my concerns to my boss as well.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Can you tell your boss your concerns? The stalking stuff is weird. I don’t think it’s alarming necessarily, but it has nothing to do with the job and it’s a good example of her bamboozling.

  95. whataweek*

    Another week, another series of frustrating experiences that make realize my enthusiasm for my current job is dying…slowly but surely.

    I am still very confident of the sector I want to be working in (international development non-profit), but I’m having a hard time identifying the “perfect job.” Basically, I want to have a variety of things to do on any given day (including a smattering of admin tasks just to add some variety), and mostly focus on research and writing– but have my work actually mean something tangible. And not have to go to too many meetings.

    Any advice on narrowing down that perfect job?

    1. misspiggy*

      So been there! When you’ve been doing that kind of work a few years you can look back and see the results of things you were involved in, which can be very rewarding. In the shorter term, there are plenty of jobs like you describe in that sector, so it’s a matter of constantly looking for opportunities. First thing I’d suggest to narrow it down is decide whether you’d ultimately be happiest in fundraising, humanitarian coordination, technical advice/programme coordination/policy work, or advocacy/campaigning. I think you get quite different types of people in each of these subsections. Then do all the networking, skills building and self-marketing you can to get a role in your desired area. After that it’s easier to develop more narrow specialisms.

  96. Why?*

    For the third time this year, I have made it to final rounds with a company (meaning I was one of two or three finalists) and was passed up for the other person. Is there a reason why this would keep happening to me? If my cover letter/resume needed work, I wouldn’t be making it to the interview stage. If my interviewing sucked, I wouldn’t make it to multiple rounds of interviews. Do I chalk this up to “there are few jobs available in my field and competition is stiff” or is there something I’m doing that would result in this happening multiple times?

    1. fposte*

      Sorry; that’s really frustrating. It could just be the way things go, as you note. But there’s also a difference between interviews not sucking and interviews being absolutely kickass, so maybe it’s worth exploring that.

      Additionally, if you felt you had a good rapport with any of those interviewers, you might drop them a line, candidly note that you feel there might be struggling with an interview hurdle, and ask if they have any suggestions that might strengthen your approach.

      1. Why?*

        I asked one of them, and all he said was, “You were actually great – the other candidate had more experience and was a better cultural fit” – I’m coming from academia and interviewing at tech startups so I’m wondering if “culture fit” actually just means “academia has made you stuffy”

    2. Vorthys*

      That sounds like luck of the draw to me. It’s entirely likely that you’re one of many talented, qualified people in your field currently looking for a new position. You aren’t presenting a substantial history of not being hired here, though goodness knows that it always feels like it when you’re the one having to do all those interviews.

      I like to rationalize these things like how I’d never expected to be the first in every race I’ve been in, even though I’m a great runner. It’s worth investigating what you might be able to do better, but not worth fixating on it.

  97. Ann Ohnemus*

    Frequent lurker, infrequent poster here. I need a reality check and some advice. Sorry if this gets long…

    I was recently reorganized into a new team/department within my company. I happen to be a bit of an outlier on the new team as the only one who works 9-6, rather than a much earlier 7:30-4:30 or 8-5 schedule. During an early meeting with my new grand-boss (boss’s boss), I alerted him to my schedule arrangements. He agreed to keep it the same since I had negotiated that schedule when I started with the company and it was working for all involved so far. At the time, my new boss wasn’t part of this conversation.

    Here’s the problem: New boss and the rest of his team have a standing biweekly checkpoint meeting from 8-9 AM. I’m not 100% sure if he’s aware of my specifically-negotiated 9:00 start or if grand-boss passed the schedule conversation along, though I know new boss has seen me come in at 9:00 every day and hasn’t said anything. I also think there may be a time zone issue with a couple of team members located in India.

    However, I’m hesitating because I specifically negotiated this schedule due to having a chronic autoimmune illness, with symptoms that are at their worst in the mornings. I don’t have a formal accommodation for the schedule, because I didn’t need to go there when I was hired; previous boss asked what hours I prefer, I said 9-6, she agreed immediately and that was that. I’ve tried to work 8-5 in past jobs, and it was an unmitigated disaster, so I’m seriously stressing out about this recurring meeting.

    If the 8:00 meetings were very infrequent, I’d just suck it up and come in early regardless of my own issues, but I’m not confident that I can keep that up every other week without long-term health impacts. I’m already in a flare-up and am trying my hardest to get my health under control. New boss and grand-boss are aware that I have a health condition that’s currently active (I have a different ADA accommodation through HR, and I’ve had somewhat frequent medical appointments in the last few months). Is it reasonable for me to push back on the 8:00 meetings? If so, how do I phrase that request without looking like the whiny new person who wants everything rearranged to suit her? If not, what other suggestions do you have to handle this gracefully, and (hopefully) without harming my health?

    1. Ad Astra*

      Do you feel comfortably explaining to your boss that you can’t come in earlier because of a health condition? With that context, it would sound like a pretty reasonable request. It may be a no-go if the time zone doesn’t work out well, but many meetings are scheduled at arbitrary times and can be easily rescheduled when there’s a reason to.

      1. Elizabeth the Ginger*

        I agree.

        Additionally, it sounds like there are people “at” this meeting who are not physically present. If the boss says “We can’t move the meeting later because of the people in India,” would it be possible for you to join the meeting virtually at home, and would that ease the pressure on you? E.g., if you usually get up at 7:30 and leave the house at 8:15, could you instead get up at 7:30, spend a little time getting ready, conference in at 8, then have a bit more you-time before heading to the office at 9:15 to arrive at 10? You’d spend the same amount of time working that day, but a bit rearranged.

        On the other hand, if that sounds like it would make you more stressed, obviously don’t suggest it!

        1. Elizabeth the Ginger*

          And hopefully just saying “I requested this schedule because of a medical condition” would be enough. I’ve got my fingers crossed for you.

        2. MaryMary*

          Is working remotely a possibility in your role? You might find it helpful in general if you worked from home one or two days a week. If you had to call into an 8:00 call one of those WFH days, it could be more manageable than trying to get to the office by 8.

        3. coyote_fan*

          Many times when I have had a conference call scheduled in the morning due to people in EEMEA/AP being on the call as well my boss had no issues with calling in from home and leaving for work after the call. If you don’t need to participate actively much, but keep in tune with the rest of the team, would your health issues allow that type of setting?

    2. Ann Ohnemus*

      Thanks, all. I do have the ability to work remotely–that’s what the ADA accommodation I have is for, actually. Boss is out of office today, so I’ll talk to him Monday about the meeting timing, and see about calling in for them if later scheduling isn’t possible. I have a feeling I’ll mostly be listening in these meetings instead of speaking for at least the next several months, so I hope one of these options will work out.

      I was worried that I would come across as crazy or entitled to even ask about this! I’m glad others see alternatives to just sucking it up as at least somewhat reasonable. :)

  98. Nervous Accountant*

    I want to be excellent at my job. I want ot be the person that knows what they’r etalking about and everyone comes to with questions. I want to be that person who people talk about and say “wow she knows her shit!”

    I don’t know how.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      Really, it just takes time. I had this epiphany a while back where I realized that I suddenly knew the answers to everyone’s questions, and a lot of times I could guess their question before they asked it. It was after I had been doing my job for 2.5 years.

      1. afiendishthingy*

        A coworker who has been with our agency several years longer than I have but had been in a junior position just passed a professional certification exam and got promoted to the same role as me. I’ve been here a little over a year, and it can be such a nice feeling when she asks a question that I know the answer to right off. It will come.

    3. Sascha*

      It takes time, but you can get there by being insatiably curious. If someone asks you something and you don’t know, tell them you’ll find out. Dig around on departmental documentation. Ask people about their daily processes and what they do. Google everything. Google everything!!

      1. Jillociraptor*

        This is exactly it. Ask tons of questions, try to make connections between what you do and what everyone else does, really read all of those departmental emails and ask questions when you don’t know everything you want to know about what they say.

        1. Sascha*

          In my experience, people are more likely to say “She knows her shit!” when the shit is in context, so to speak.

    4. Shishimai*

      I’m sort of accidentally this person in my current job.

      Experience, a good memory (or good record-keeping system coupled with the desire to write down all the things) and a willingness to learn and share have been what got me there.

      I like to explore the weird edge cases that stress my coworkers out, and I have a decent memory. Those two things combined put me in the middle of half the weird stuff that goes on. Being willing to be wrong, and being able to walk other people through the reasoning puts me in half of the remaining.

    5. Ad Astra*

      This is how I’ve felt in every job I’ve ever had. I’m going to give some of these suggestions a try, but I can’t shake the feeling that I’m just not talented.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I have this fear. It has nothing to do with my educational background (not in this field)..I can be competent, but I won’t be that person that impresses people. I work with someone who’s been here same amount of time (he doesn’t have hte same license as me but a bachelors & masters in the field) and he’s pretty awesome at what he does. I look at the other people who work here and while they’ve been here longer, they also seem to have this natural talent of talking to people and explaining things.

        1. Shishimai*

          I don’t know if it’s helpful, but for a lot of people, it’s not a matter of natural talent for talking to people, but rather practiced skill.

          Some people seem to always have an easy time at it, but don’t let that stop you – the skill of talking to people, of explaining things, and even the coveted ability to translate between technical and non-technical can all be learned.

          I’m introverted, weird, and not always good at being social, but I read etiquette sites (including this one!) and intentionally study what works and what doesn’t, and over the course of a year, it’s really paying off.

          Just like knowing your stuff at work, knowing your stuff socially is learnable. :)

          1. Not So NewReader*

            A practiced skill. There’s no way to know, they might have an hour drive to work every day and they use that time to practice explaining things to people. We just don’t know what hoops people are jumping through to get to where they are at.

    6. fposte*

      There are two things here, I think. One is having the knowledge; one is having people regard you highly for having the knowledge. The first isn’t a guarantee of the second.

      That being said, it’s still worth trying, as long as you’d still be interested in being that knowledgeable for its own sake. What do you mean by “don’t know how”–isn’t there tax law going on forever and ever that you could know better? Maybe have a look at a financial forum like bogleheads.org and see if you can answer the frequent tax questions without batting an eye. Do you know what this year’s crop of tax changes will mean to your clients next year? Do you know what tax rules are set to expire in 2016, the possibility of their extension, and what their impact might be?

      It’s not my field, so I’m just casting around for possibilities. But that’s the kind of thing that says “knowledge base” to me, and maybe you can find an equivalent if I’m using bad examples.

    7. catsAreCool*

      Take notes on everything that might be useful. Keep them well organized. Go over them every so often.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      The last job that I became the go-to person was because I struggled so much with everything. I would tackle that broken machine, or find that missing inventory, etc. It was draining for me but I learned a lot. As the years rolled by I got quicker at it. There was no one thing- I knew my way around and where things were; I knew people and what they were good at; and I took on problems that others walked away from.

      Sometimes you can gain inroads by taking on tasks that everyone hates- be careful about this one. Chose those tasks wisely.
      You can gain inroads by nailing stuff down- “in situation x, given choices A and B the correct choice is always B if today is Tuesday”. If you can nail down these little things that constantly confuse others, people will seek you out.

      Another thing you can do is decide to be a good sponge. Soak up the best of the best that you see around you. Sue does great with A- copy her when you are doing A’s. Frank is terrific at B- copy him when it is time to do B’s.

    9. non-profit manager*

      I am that person. Have been at all previous jobs, too.

      First, you really do have to know your stuff. To get there, keep learning. Be curious. Be open. Second, you have to be approachable and willing to share. Third, you need to seek out opportunities to mentor and share.

    10. asteramella*

      Look at people in your workplace who are excellent at their jobs. What do they do well? What’s the difference between colleagues who are good and colleagues who are excellent? What specific actions have they taken that impressed you?

      Depending on your relationship with your excellent colleagues, you might ask them if you could buy them a coffee and ask them about how they developed their skills.

  99. HannahS*

    How do I have the conversation about accommodation for illness/disability? I know I should wait until after I get the job, but how do I open that conversation? I definitely don’t want to talk about my specific diagnosis (mostly because I might throttle the next person who asks me if I’ve tried yoga) but I don’t want to be so vague that it’s not taken seriously. I feel a little silly and weirdly mysterious talking about My Illness without being specific, but I do want to get the point across that sometimes I literally need to sit down, etc. and it’s not just a preference.

    1. AndersonDarling*

      When you get the call with the offer, after drug tests and background checks come back good, and after you have said you are excited to accept the offer, then say that you need an accommodation for your illness. These are the conversations HR folks have, so it won’t be anything unusual for them.

      1. Snarky McSnark*

        Have you thought about asking if they have an in house yoga program? :)

        On a serious note, if there is not much accommodation (especially money wise) that is needed, I would wait until you get the offer. If it is something that will take more effort/expense/time to set up, your start date may need to be pushed back. The thing you don’t want to do is give them a chance to not offer you the position because you “weren’t the right fit”.

        1. HannahS*

          Thanks! I guess HR is analogous to the disability serivce office in a university? I used to register with them and then they’d deal with setting things up for me, though it was still my job to talk to the profs.

        2. HannahS*

          Lol Snarky I guess should! It totally cured my friend’s sister’s mother-in-law’s Aunt Gertrude.

  100. Stressed Depressed and Anxious*

    Any tips for working well and not causing ripples when suffering from anxiety and depression?

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Breathe. Take deep breaths before you start a difficult task and take deep breaths randomly through the day.

      Double check your work. There’s nothing wrong with that. All of us should be double checking our work. But you know where you are most vulnerable go over those parts, make sure you have it the way you want it.

      Watch your self-talk. I’m a big fan of this one. If you accidentally tell yourself something negative quickly follow up with a positive statement- ideally the positive statement should relate to the negative statement some how. Ex: “Is it time to go home yet? I can’t stand it any more!” whoops- follow up with “Gee, I have made it through most of the day and soon I will be able to go home and have a hot soak/good dinner/whatever.”

  101. Jubilance*

    This week I had to do my first video interview via HireVue. Anyone else done it before? I checked out the FAQ beforehand but it was still a bit unnerving to have 1 shot to record an answer to an interview question.

    I also received an email from an internal recruiter who asked for my availability for a phone screen…and then never got back to me about it. I hate when that happens – if they’ve moved on the least they could do is let me know.

    2. Coffee Ninja*

      I’ve only come across that technology twice – both times I removed myself from the interview process. If you want to interview me, then you can schedule an interview (or phone interview).

    3. Lindsay J*

      I haven’t done hireview, but I have done one through Spark Hire. Spark at least gives you the option to rerecord your answer as many times as you would like, but it is still unnerving.

  102. Anne S*

    Looking for some opinions on resume formatting from the group, since I can’t figure out how to present this situation.

    In March 2014, I moved from the less prestigious Teapot Builder department to the more prestigious Teapot Design department, so I could be trained in Teapot Design, and I retained my title of Teapot Builder. However, the company had a rough mid-2014 revenue-wise, so even after I was clearly doing teapot design, it was a poor time to advocate for a promotion, and after things picked up again it took a long time for bureaucratic reasons. The title change didn’t go through with HR until Feb 2015.

    Now I’m being recruited and need to update my resume, but I can’t figure out how to make it clear that I’ve been doing teapot design for a year and a half without being untrue about the title situation. Suggestions?

    1. mander*

      How about:
      Teapot Builder, January — June 2014
      Teapot Designer, June 2014 — current (title change formalized Feb 2015)

    2. themmases*

      Can you put it in the description of your previous position? A bullet point something like “Invited and joined Teapot Design team in March 2014”.

      You could also put the departments and dates under your title:
      Teapot Building Department 2011-2013
      Teapot Design Department 2013-present

  103. Anx*

    I know there are a lot of academics and academic-adjacent workers here, as well as family members of ones.

    Long-term partner and I are heading into a cross-roads right now. He’s about to graduate with a PhD. There are a lot of things to consider about our actual relationship, but for the purposes of this thread let’s say that we’d like to stay together through this process.

    I already have a very weak employment history (lot of jobs until I graduated, and part-time work on and off since 2008). I just finished taking a few more classes and am applying to jobs locally. My most recent industry is geographically clustered. His research depends on living in coastal communities. I don’t foresee us both having great opportunities in the same place.

    I know I can’t be the only person in a similar situation, but does anyone know of good resources for people partnered to academics? I know we’re often compared to military spouses, but those resources tend to focus on actual employment programs for spouses, which I wouldn’t qualify for (and rightly so). I also feel awkward comparing our situations. Others seem focused on couples with two academic or high-powered careers. That’s not our situation at all.

    I mentioned this last week, but do you think it looks worse to leave your first full-time job early to follow family? Or extend your period of temp/part-time/underemployment until you’re more settled in a location?

    1. the_scientist*

      Hmmm…..this is an interesting question. I think it all comes down to timing- it would suck to leave a full-time job within a the first couple of months to move across the country, but it happens. On the other hand, if you get a job ASAP and make it a year there, it’s not quite so bad. Because the timing of finding jobs can be tricky, I’d lean extending the temp/part-time employment until you’re a bit more settled- if asked, you could always say that you and your partner knew that relocation was in your future, and you wanted to get settled before seeking more long-term employment. Frankly, lots of people spend years in temp/part-time arrangements, so I don’t think your situation is super unusual.

      But really, it sounds like you need to do some serious soul-searching about the future of the relationship and if relocating is something you’re even open to doing. It’s okay if you aren’t. Really.

      1. Anx*

        I think if I was asked, I would be able to explain it fairly well (the explanation you suggest is pretty much true). Of course, I’d have to get far enough into an application process to explain it.

    2. Jillociraptor*

      Right there with you. We’ve moved four times since 2011 on my partner’s academic job hunt. It really is hard–and I’ve had it super easy because I had a job that I could move with me during that time. I’ve known lots of spouses/partners who had to put their career on hold until their partner got settled, or had to do the long-distance thing. I remember really lacking resources and support with this particular configuration too, as a young professional, rather than as part of a dual-career couple. I really don’t have much to share with you beyond commiseration.

      I think there’s the question of if you really want to side-along on this, knowing what that might mean for your employment prospects. The flip-side of that, though, is the push it gives you to maybe explore something new. I’m inferring from your post that you’re not particularly wed to your current career path (though of course correct me if I’m wrong), so it could be a natural opportunity to make a shift. You’ve also got the option of going long distance for a year or two, which is hard but may be better to ensure he ends up getting settled somewhere.

      Good luck!

      1. Anx*

        I’m not at all married to a career path. I’ve worked so hard to claw my way out of complete unemployment and I don’t want to backslide and lose the ground I’ve made in the past few years, but I’m nearly 30 and haven’t really started on a proper career path. I’m torn before feeling like I’m running out of time before I forfeit some of my options and also feel like it’s a little pointless to leave a relationship to start a career when I know my resume is far from competitive. Even if I do get a full-time job, I’m worried about the next step with my spotty work history.

        We’ve done distance before (for a few years), but we live together now. I’m uneasy about going long-distance this time around, but also a little excited about it.

        4 times in 4 years seems like a lot! And so expensive, too. We were interested in staying local for one of the post-docs, but this state is becoming decreasingly supportive of both science and higher ed (we both work in science and higher ed).

        As a side-note, just looking at the upcoming moves (if we stay together) is giving me a lot of apartment anxiety. I would love to just declutter and downsize. It makes me feel happier, more focused, and I think it would make moving easier. But I’m also hesitant to get rid of anything if we’re going to be splitting into two households.

    3. BRR*

      My husband is an academic and our rule is he can only apply for tenure-track jobs. No term positions. Also I can veto location. This way it allows me to grow a career someplace and I won’t get stuck somewhere where I won’t have job opportunities or that I won’t like.

  104. AnonAdmin*

    Sigh. I hate my job, but TGIF. Anyone have tips for when your job duties have been misrepresented to you? I was told I’d do communications and research work in addition to admin but spend an hour a day doing admin work and have nothing else the rest of the time. Talked to boss frequently, as well as other staffers, and when I did a tiny bit of research they were happy with it. But no one budges on giving me more work and I feel like I’m getting more stupid by the day.

  105. KS*

    I’ve been having health problems recently and have been going to the doctors for them. Basically, it’s looking like I have IBS or colitis. This is something that I’ve obviously had to deal with at work and it’s kind of embarrassing. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions for managing?

    1. fposte*

      What needs to be managed? Are you talking about stay-at-home unwellness or just a bunch of bathroom trips? It also depends who is impacted by this situation. I hardly see my boss and I doubt he knows I have Crohn’s, but my staff does.

      In general, this is likely to loom less to others than it feels like it does to you. I might alert my manager, especially if there’s a risk that I might be perceived as ducking out to use my phone a lot or something similar. If you work closely enough with a group that you’ll be noticed heading down the hall a lot, a simple “there’s a medical thing going on, hopefully it’ll be better soon, sorry about the traffic” should suffice.

        1. fposte*

          There’s that too–sometimes, though, it’s easier to address something directly rather than wondering if your colleagues are thinking about it.

      2. KS*

        Maybe I just feel like it is more noticeable because I’ve only been at my new job for a little under a month? Most of the managing is about the frequency, length of trips and urgency. One minute I’ll feel completely fine, and the next I need to get up right that second to run to the bathroom. I feel like this could become a problem in meetings and such. Also, I’m expected to do work out in the field in the next few months with another coworker. This means spending hours out of the office and potentially away from a restroom.

        1. fposte*

          I’d be inclined to alert my manager, then, just to frame the situation as under investigation.

          The fieldwork is a challenge. I would definitely loop the co-worker in and pre-map the area for available facilities; I’d also raise the management issue with my doctor in the meantime if whatever you’re currently doing isn’t enough. (I use a lot of Imodium when traveling–don’t know if that’s an option for you.)

          Sorry; this is unpleasant, but it’s often possible to find good medical management.

          1. Hellanon*

            Somebody really needs to do an “available public toilets” app – I know I could use one when my parents & I are out running errands!

    2. Luna*

      I have crohns and my employer has been great about handling it. My desk was moved so I’m nearer the bathroom (sometimes a sprint is still necessary but it’s easier now) and it’s become a bit easier to cope with because now I don’t have the entire office seeing when I have to use the bathroom. You must tell your manager. I’m sure they would understand. As long as they’re not the kind of company that time your bathroom breaks then you should be good. And if you need to ‘go’ in a meeting just excuse yourself quietly and leave. They can’t stop you from using the bathroom!

    3. Pineapple Incident*

      I’m agreeing with the “not much their business how often one uses the facilities” angle, but if anyone asks how you’re feeling I’d say something to the effect of fposte’s response about pre-mapping the area. I have a mild version of Crohn’s as well- can be difficult at times but there are often accommodations you might not even know exist if you do have to raise it with your manager/HR. I’m fortunate not to need adjustments at work, but I’d ask HR if you have questions once you have a diagnosis– or if the meantime road to diagnosis takes a long time (narrowing down my issues took a couple of years, official diagnosis this past spring).

      Work stuff aside, I just want to offer commiseration with this. It’s scary and feels like there are a lot of grey areas with regard to GI upset-type symptoms that aren’t easily explained, but it’s not all bad news by any stretch. Many chronic IBS/inflammatory bowel diseases have several paths to medical management, and if you work with your gastroenterologist there is likely one out there for you as well. Depending on the severity of your condition, of course, your symptoms could be very well managed with the right medication regimen or lifestyle. Wishing you all the best with this process and hoping for answers for you.

  106. FiveWheels*

    I just want to give a big shout out thank you to Alison and all the commenters here. I’ve never asked a question, but lately there have been a lot of issues which have led me to ask myself What Would Alison Do?

    Every time it’s helped me get things in perspective and more often than not made me see I already know what to do but have been putting it off.

    So, to all of you, thanks!

  107. AGirlCalledFriday*

    Ohh, I need help. I’m a teacher and I’m just completely burnt out! I desperately need a different job, but I am having trouble figuring out what other work I could do. As a teacher, I have tons of experience in so many different areas, but it seems like employers think I have nothing of value. However, I have experience with public speaking, writing, editing, planning events, management, working with clients, leading meetings, training, research, public relations, and ability to work independently, under pressure, in a fast-paced environment. Aside from this, I’ve worked and lived overseas and have traveled extensively, worked with people of many different cultures, and interviewed and hired candidates, and have computer skills as well as some basic programming skills.

    With all of this, you’d think I’d be able to get some kind of job other than teaching, but the moment I list that I’m a teacher, my resume seems to be thrown away. I never hear back from anyone. I can’t afford to go back to school, and I have a ton of student loans so I can’t afford to work for peanuts either. Any ideas? HELP!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’ve been there. When I quit teaching, it was very difficult to find a job… or even to get interviews. The problem isn’t that they don’t think you have the skills. The problem is your résumé screams “Teacher!” If all you’ve ever done is teach, they assume that what you want to do is teach, and they’ll favor applicants whose résumé items look more like the job title.

      The only advice I can give is to be persistent. I was an English teacher and eventually got a job as a database manager (probably because they couldn’t find anyone else competent / “qualified” who’d accept their dirt-low pay), and I’ve been doing office work in schools almost exclusively since (dabbled a bit back into teaching).

      Hang in there!

      1. Elizabeth the Ginger*

        If the résumé screams “Teacher!” then the cover letter has to address that really head-on. “I have been teaching for X years, and I want to make a change for a career with more A, B, and C. I really enjoyed D and E about teaching, but I want a position where I can focus more on F and G. My experience has given me skills in H and I, which apply to your job opportunity because…”

        Especially focus on what draws you to the job you’re applying for, not just why you want out of teaching. Or to quote a song I love: “When you run, make sure you run to something, and not away from.”

        1. AGirlCalledFriday*

          That’s great advice, and I’ve been doing exactly that – really spelling out what I do and where I excel, that I’m looking to career change and what steps I’ve taken. I have heard nothing back. I had to take another teaching position for the year out of sheer desperation.

        2. Anonymous Educator*

          Definitely. That doesn’t mean a lot of people won’t still disregard the application (or favor other ones), but it’s worth doing.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      Are you sure you want to completely ditch teaching? I know lots of non-profits who need educators to do presentations on their mission. They talk at community meetings, give tours, that sort of thing. May be something to consider…

      1. MaryMary*

        You could also look into positions at other groups that work with educational oganizations. For example, a lot of companies that develop and/or sell products aimed at teachers like to hire former teachers. You have relationships with their customer base, know how things really work in a classroom, etc.

        1. Lindsay J*

          This. After I knew I didn’t want to be a practicing speech pathologist, one of the avenues I looked at was working with one of the companies that develop materials for speech pathologists. Another friend of mine worked as a speech pathologist in a school for a couple years and then left to work for ASHA (the professional org for speech pathologists),

        2. Aardvark*

          Yep–this is actually how I got out of teaching and into a role better suited for me. Are there any companies or organizations that your school works with? That might be a good place to start looking.

      2. AGirlCalledFriday*

        As it stands, I’d really like to leave teaching forever. I’m an introvert, and talking to people and being ‘on’ all day is so draining, I feel like I’m in a stupor when I come home. I need a better work/life balance – I spent 14 hours at work last night so I wouldn’t have to bring home my weekend work…that on top of my normal 10-12 hour day. Having taught overseas, I am fed up with the American education system – lack of respect, lack of parental responsibility, kids with constant behavior issues, administrative bullying, tests tests tests, and the fact that the job keeps getting bigger and bigger but the paycheck never does. I would prefer to have 5 nights a week and entire weekends to myself, rather than having a summer off where I frequently have to take classes and prep for the next year. I’m also tired of spending my meager earnings. I’ve experienced much better treatment and life/balance overseas and I can’t acclimate knowing it doesn’t have to be this way.

        I’m in Chicago and there aren’t many teaching positions available. I have a masters degree so public schools won’t hire me as I’m too expensive. Instead I have to work at a Catholic school making 30k a year. It’s impossible. I just want out at this point.

        1. Winter is Coming*

          What about getting your foot in the corporate door as a trainer? It would get you in, they would get to know you and your capabilities, then you could keep your eyes open for other internal positions you might want to move into.

          1. AGirlCalledFriday*

            That’s also a great idea, and one of the first places I looked – but it seems that companies want someone who has expertise in their product or field.

            1. Winter is Coming*

              I wouldn’t give up on that one…maybe find an example of when you had to teach something that you had to learn about quickly?

      3. Treena*

        This! If you’re at all interested in health, health education may be for you. Classroom management skills are very valued in that field!

    3. Ad Astra*

      When we moved to a new state where my husband wasn’t licensed to teach, he ran into similar problems. Teaching is very much a form of management, and he had a lot to offer, but nobody could see past the word “teacher” on his resume and the phrase “secondary education” in his degree.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      What did you teach, and what do you want to do?

      You don’t want to jump from the pot into the fire, just to take something that’s not a teaching job. My sister and another friend of mine were teachers and went back to school for nursing. That doesn’t sound like a fit for several reasons, based on what you said in your other responses. I have another friend with a teaching degree who immediately went into nonprofit work and never taught, but I think it was fairly easy because she was a music teacher and went into music nonprofits.

      Otherwise, I hate to say this (because I hate to do it), but I think networking is your best bet, but only once you can tell people I’m looking for a ___ position with a ___ doing ____. Tell your friends and family, see what turns up.

      You might also be able to try breaking into sales [or admin, or HR, or whatever you think your best fit is] for educational products or a tutoring company and leverage your teaching, then turn that sales experience to a different industry to get away totally.

  108. Carrie in Scotland*

    More companies laying off mass amount of employees in Home City this week… :(
    It’s time to get real.

    Obviously I am in new job in…University of Stars Hollow. I can use my address from Home City but what exactly should I be saying about my current job/location? I’ve only been there since August and my CV is rather job-hoppy at best. Because I’d have to explain the Stars Hollow Uni job somehow otherwise that leaves a 6 month gap.

    Any advice, as ever, is appreciated.

  109. Sarah*

    I’d love suggestions for calling out gross, bigoted comments in a work environment. I work in a consortium of travel agents that’s supposed to be incredibly LGBT-friendly- the owners are lesbians. We all have satellite offices and mostly interact on a Facebook group. People aren’t outright using slurs but say things like “I’m not homophobic but I just can’t stand it when I see two men kissing in public!” I’m pretty good at calling stuff like that out in person but have trouble doing it where it stays forever and ever on a public forum.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      “I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way, but yes, it does sound homophobic.”
      “If you don’t want to sound homophobic, you shouldn’t make comments like that.”
      “That actually does read as pretty offensive to me.”
      “I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, but I want to flag for you that comment sounded like you were saying ___.” “I thought I heard you say ___. Am I right? … Many people would take that comment to mean ___.”

      1. LawBee*

        Lesbian here, and I’m not a fan of the “I’m sure you didn’t mean it” tender care couching. It’s essentially putting the bigoted commenter’s feelings ahead of – well, mine. I like the second and third options, but the others, not so much.

        Also, I’d be sorely tempted to bring those people to the attention of the owners. I know I wouldn’t want them working for me.

        1. Felicia*

          Another lesbian here who also doesn’t like that for similar reasons.

          Also saying “I’m not homophobic but I just can’t stand it when I see two men kissing in public!” doesn’t just sound homophobic , it actually is homophobic.

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          I totally hear you on that. I think sometimes people won’t say anything at all if they can’t find a way to soften the language slightly, especially at work, and I would rather have them say something than nothing, but you are 100% right.

      2. Sarah*

        Thank you, those are very helpful, especially the first two. FWIW, I’m also a queer woman and generally suffer no fools when it comes to this sort of thing. But I’m very young and new to the organization, and it’s my first time trying to confront bigotry in a professional environment instead of at school or the family dinner table, so I didn’t want to be too combative. The fact that I can’t use tone or facial expressions to convey nuance makes it even more frustrating.

    2. Elizabeth the Ginger*

      This could also be a good place for the classic “Wow.” On Facebook, where you can’t accompany it with raised eyebrows, you might want to add another sentence: “Wow. That’s an offensive comment.” (Calling the comment offensive, or calling the comment homophobic, is a way to take away from the argument “But I’m not homophobic!”)

    4. Rebecca in Dallas*

      “I’m not racist/homophobic but…”

      Any time someone starts a sentence that way, they’re about to say something racist or homophobic.

      1. Felicia*

        All of the most racist or homophobic statements I have ever heard were in sentences that started like that.

    5. Ultraviolet*

      Can you articulate how you’d like to change the message because it’s online rather than in person? I’m not clear on that, which means these suggestions could be off the mark for you. But I’d add these possibilities to what others have mentioned:

      -“Are you joking? That kind of thing isn’t actually funny.”
      -“I’d really love not to hear that kind of thing here!”
      -“That’s totally inappropriate. Moving on…[change subject]”
      -“What do you mean?”
      -“If that wasn’t supposed to be homophobic, then I don’t think I understood it. Can you clarify?”
      -“I think you might not be using the word ‘homophobic’ in the standard way, because unfortunately that is pretty much a homophobic thing to say.” [Bonus: this one rhymes, though it doesn’t really scan.]
      -“That has some really gross implications.”

      Also, are you saying this Facebook group is open to the public? If so, I second LawBee’s suggestion that the owners would want to know. (I second that suggestion anyway, though.)

  110. Not So Lovely Wife*

    So I’m calling this work related, because it is related to my husband’s job, kinda sorta.

    To report back from my post on Sunday, my husband was re-elected. So yay and boo simultaneously, but at least this year there will be a pay raise (which is why I’m calling this work related – by being re-elected, my husband is considered an employee of OurCity, and he puts in a LOT of hours a week, but it isn’t full time). Yay because I know he really wants this, and if he wasn’t re-elected he’d probably spend the next X years almost as involved but without being paid and then planning a comeback run, but a tiny bit boo because I’m tired of playing politician’s wife. But at least they have term limits, so next election will be our last (for at least 1 term – their limits only allow for Y years in a row, but after taking a term off it re-sets).

    On Sunday I’ll report more of the drama that I’d consider to be not work related. Gold Digger, we’ll have to trade stories if Primo planning to run again. As of a few months ago we had ruled out him running for higher office, but I’m afraid when term limits kick in it will be back on the table. I haven’t reached all the political stuff on your blog yet Goldie, but I’ll be interested to see if you had some of the same issue we did. Someday we should trade tips.

    And actually, H is at a big conference for elected officials this week. I’ve gone with him some years, and I feel like in a addition to the options for spouses for things like shopping trips, there should be some kind of seminar track about “how to survive life as a political spouse” and “how not to write Facebook posts that get taken up by your spouse’s opponents and twisted to mean something totally different than the original intent” or “how to deal with reporter digging up completely unrelated dirt from 15 years ago about you, spouse or family members and smearing it in the paper just because they have nothing better to write about”. Any other political spouses want to start a “consulting” service with me on these seminars?

    [and if anyone missed my post on Sunday – the name comes from Connie Schultz’s book “And His Lovely Wife” about her life as a Congressman/Senator’s wife and the fact that no one could remember her name since she didn’t take her husband’s last name. Excellent read, even if you aren’t into politics.]

    1. Lindsay J*

      I’ll have to keep an eye on y’all’s discussion. My boyfriend has mentioned a desire to run several times and I am just so not cut out to be a political wife lol.

    2. the gold digger*

      Oh yes let’s talk. Primo has lost both his campaigns – the one for the state house and the one for Congress, but he still has the bug.

      I. Hate. It. I do not want politics to be in my life or in his. I am losing him this weekend because he will be doing doors for another candidate. I hate that he puts so much time into other peoples’ campaigns but they don’t always help him back. I hate that he wants to have political fundraisers at our house. Actually, I wouldn’t care – I would leave him to it while I do something else for the evening – but I know I am the one who will be judged if the house is not spotless.

      I also don’t agree with him on most things so I really don’t want the people on his side in my house. :) I especially don’t want to talk about politics with them because I think they are so, so wrong, but I am truly not interested in arguing with them because arguing about politics is both dull and changed someone’s mind never.

      Yeah. We need to talk!

    3. Jennifer*

      I didn’t see your post, but I did love that Connie Schultz book. You have my sympathies.

      Unfortunately, I think “not write Facebook posts at all” is probably the only way to solve that particular problem.

      How likely is he to run for some other office once he’s termed out?

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yeah, I’ve been putting it out to the universe that I want to get married, but dear Universe, DON’T send me a politician.
        I’d rather be married to an actor than a politician.

    5. skyline*

      Not a politician’s wife, but I am a politician’s daughter! My politician father has won a couple elections, lost a hell of lot more, and is working in a non-elected consultant capacity. I keep suggesting that retirement is a wonderful thing (mostly for my mom’s sake). I have a lot of sympathy when I see how politicians’ relatives are treated by the media and constituents.

  111. AndersonDarling*

    Do you ever get to the end of the Open Thread comments and think “Wow, I actually read all of these comments. What time is it now?”

  112. De Minimis*

    Another new thing at my job….I’m going to be handling a lot of recruiting duties, and we have at couple of permanent positions soon. Have no experience with this at all, I’m hoping most of my part will just be posting the ads and being a point of contact. The positions aren’t going to be located in my department so I don’t *think* I’d be involved with the actual interviewing but who knows. I do think I may be the first screener for the resumes and cover letters, though, and may be contacting references [though I don’t think we do that except when an offer is pending.]

    Should be interesting, but I need to really dig through the archives here. Never in a million years did I think I would be in HR….

  113. Job Seeking Motivation*

    How do you stay motivated during a long job search? I’ve been searching for a new job for almost a year but there just aren’t many openings to apply to. I’m currently employed but am getting discouraged with the job market.

    1. oldfashionedlovesong*

      I’m in your same boat, employed but searching with very little luck because I work in a somewhat niche field where there’s a weirdly high rate of unreasonable expectations (mid-level, pays 50K, wants a PhD and 7-10 years experience-type expectations).

      Sometimes it’s the very little things, the psychological boosts, that are all you can do when you’re getting discouraged. For example, try switching up when/where you do your job searches and applications. I make it part of a Saturday adventure– go for a drive to find a new cozy coffee shop or interesting library to spend a few hours searching and applying. Sometimes a change in scenery can wring a burst of energy out of you that you didn’t think you had left.

      1. overeducated and underemployed*

        Are you in my field? ;) Except I’m in the “graduate degree and 2-5 years of experience” category, which seems to mean waaay less than 50K. Sigh. Where does that statistic that the average wage for a person with a BA is like $44K even come from?!

    2. Jennifer*

      I don’t really stay motivated, I go through periods of “I give up.” Unfortunately things will get bad enough to prompt you to go back to the well again periodically as well.

  114. Lesanon2*

    Last week I posted that an employee had given three days notice and then called in sick on the 1st day of his notice.

    He continued his unprofessional behavior and showed he was mentally checked out. Admitted to peers he lied about the sick leave. Took long lunches and breaks. Stopped speaking to myself or team members.

    Until he found out his start date at his new job had been pushed back. Then he changed his behavior since he needed something, hoping to change his resignation date. It wasn’t granted, by the way.

    1. Anon Accountant*

      I bet his is regretting his behavior. It’s probably best his resignation date wasn’t changed. His continued presence would likely spread negativity through the office.

      1. Lesanon2*

        It was nice seeing karma in action. Everyone agreed it would have been a different story if professional behavior had been maintained.

  115. kc*

    I’ve been hit by a very one-sided non-disparagement release. Can someone give me some examples on how to counter it?

    I am not a lawyer and do not have the resources to hire one. What kind of statement can I request to be added into the release to make it more two-way?

    Any help is appreciated!

    1. fposte*

      This is too variable and technical for a general crowd, I think–even if somebody does have experience, it’s only relevant to their state, which might not be yours. Did you call student legal clinics near where you live to see if any of them provide a low-cost service? For that matter, did you check with a lawyer to see if s/he might be willing to offer a free initial consult? They’ll do that around where I am.

  116. Ella*

    I had a job interview yesterday for a job I really really want and think I’d be good at. If anyone has any spare jobgetting/hiring manager brainwashing they’re willing to send my way that’d be lovely.

    Relatedly, if you think of a good answer to the one question you’re pretty sure you fumbled, is it good or bad form to email the hiring manager with your answer?

    1. Nom d' Pixel*

      Did you send a thank you email saying that you appreciate them taking the time to interview you and reiterating that you would be good for them? It seems like a little thing, but sometimes hiring decisions can come down to a gut feeling, and if you can nudge that into the “she seems pleasant” direction, it can’t hurt.

    2. Sadsack*

      Can you work it into your thank you note? You could mention that you were thinking further on whatever topic and expand your thoughts in that.

    3. Overeducated and underemployed*

      I dont know. I tried to do that in a thank you after an interview recently and I got kindly but definitively rejected. No way of saying whether it hurt, but it obviously didnt help.

      1. fposte*

        Or it helped but you got beat out for other reasons. There’s really no way to say.

        I can go either way on the including in the followup thing–it depends on the question, the role, and the rest of the conversation.

  117. Anonsy for this*

    Law firm. 30+ lawyers, with a decent m/f ratio. Otherwise, our diversity SUCKS. White man hired after white man after white woman. We have literally two non-white attorneys in our firm. How can I broach this with the hiring partners as an area that we really need to improve?

    1. fposte*

      With material that supports diversity’s advantages, not just its rightness, and with suggestions based on how other firms have made this happen. In other words, bring motivation and possible solutions.

      1. Meg Murry*

        Do you collect data about how you interview? Is this issue that you don’t hire diverse candidates, or that you don’t even get a diverse interview/applicant pool? Can you look at how you advertise open positions, and see if that is part of the problem – people only being hired from within the existing network? For instance, if you tend to hire almost all of your candidates from only a handful of schools that aren’t very diverse, you aren’t going to get a very diverse candidate pool. Same if there isn’t much diversity in your area – I imagine it would be very difficult to recruit a diverse candidate base to move to an area that have very few minorities.

        Are there any statisitcs about diversity in law in general? Maybe I’m wrong/biased, but it seems like a field where there are probably fewer minorities graduating from law school than the general population, so that won’t help either.

        1. Jennifer*

          How diverse is your location might also be a factor. If you live in WhiteyMcWhiteville, that may not be appealing.

  118. Florida*

    Earlier this week, there was a post about the confidentiality of workplace surveys. I’m wondering if anyone has any experience as the person conducting the survey instead of the person answering the survey. For example, if you are the HR person who gives the survey out collects the data, are they really confidential? If someone says something egregious in their survey response, can you find out who said it?

    1. Nom d' Pixel*

      I am really curious about that, too. It seems like it would be really easy for feedback to be traced to an individual if specific examples are given.

    2. cuppa*

      The only experience we had was with a third party administering the survey, so no, we couldn’t see who said what. We also instructed people to not say anything that identified them. Of course, some people did anyways, but overall no.
      Some will even just give you a summary and then make you pay more money to see the actual comments.

    3. Ad Astra*

      Well, I’m not HR, but I’m about to release a company survey about a campaign I worked on recently. It’s nothing too touchy, but it does ask for honest feedback and it has a few personal/money-type questions (they’re relevant, I swear, but they’re not things you typically ask your coworkers). I set the survey up in SurveyMonkey and programmed it to be anonymous. I think the only way I’d be able to know what a specific person said is if I worked with IT to dig that up, and there’s no way IT would help me with that.

    4. SurveyGuru*

      I work in the Research Department of a large nonprofit and am in charge of the annual Staff Survey. The survey is completed online through a third party, and then I am sent the results in the form of means by department (and overall) for each question. For the qualitative comment field (just one space at the end for any comments about anything and everything), I am just given one big collection of comments that are not separated by department. This is supposed to make it impossible to know who wrote in what comments. However, even in a company this large it was pretty easy for me to pick out *some* individual people based on what they chose to identify about themselves in their comments (e.g. specifics about their role, location of work, etc). When I report the results to our agency leadership, I’m supposed to remove all identifying information from the comments which I do, but I think is kind of stupid (because I think if they CHOOSE to reveal certain information in an otherwise anonymous survey then they must want it to be seen, especially when that information relates directly to the concerns they are raising). In general, our staff is usually quite forthcoming in their comments and TBH this is my favorite project to work on all year because it is so interesting to me to read them all!

      Oh, one small (but actually not so small) exception to the third party thing… for departments that are very small (less than 10 people), we actually analyze their results ourselves, rather than sending them out to the third party. The reason for this is the third party company only sends us means for departments with at least 10 people, and leadership wants results broken down by all departments, regardless of size. This means these departments complete the survey on a typical survey site (e.g. Survey Monkey) and I do see their comments identified by department…. and because these are the smallest of departments (~5-6 people) it is usually quite easy for me to discern who wrote which comments.

      There are times when leadership comes to me wanting to know what I know about certain comments… if I have any idea who wrote them. They know I have access to the comments by department for the small departments… this makes it pretty awkward.

  119. mander*

    I know we’ve discussed this sort of thing before but my search-fu is failing.

    How do you talk about generic computer/admin skills in your cover letter, if your work history isn’t obviously related to anything administrative? I’m applying to an admin post that calls for “excellent IT skills”, which I do actually have, but mostly they have been acquired through being a bit of a geek and doing a couple of research degrees, which involved a lot of writing/organizing stuff/fiddling with computer programs/etc. Obviously I’ve tried to explain how I have picked up the skills that I listed on my CV but I’m wondering how other people have approached this.

    In an ideal world I wouldn’t put basic computer skills on my CV, but since it’s such a prominent part of the job requirements and I don’t have a recent admin post I can point to I have listed them in a separate section.

    1. Mockingjay*

      Discuss how you used the IT skills to accomplish something tangible, related to office or project management.

      – Created electronic document workflow process which reduced document development time by 30%.
      – Organized company files and archives in compliance with [law/regulation].
      – Created and maintained Access database of employee data.

      Do you know what kind of systems or software they use? If you have experience with them, make sure you mention them by name.

    2. Overeducated and underemployed*

      Could you include a short anecdote about how you figured out an IT thing creatively in our cover letter?

      1. Mander*

        The anecdote might be a good way to approach it. I’ve done all sorts of occasionally convoluted things to solve a problem (the CONCATENATE formula is one of my best friends!). The thing that I’m stumbling on is that none of them were work-related, but rather school-related, so there aren’t any conventional metrics to use.

        So far I have mentioned things like: keeping a 4k+ item bibliographic database up to date, including noting whether I have a physical or electronic copy of a given entry and renaming all my PDF files to match the code in the database; devising a system of codes and renaming all my image files so that I could tell the location, whether it was enhanced, and various other details just from the file name; occasionally writing blog posts; creating a database in Access (later converted to OpenOffice Base) to organize and even analyze my research data; using a spreadsheet to keep track of the finances for my tiny little freelance business, and teaching myself to use the LaTeX typesetting system. But all of these are related to my research degrees, not my actual job.

  120. Nom d' Pixel*

    Ooof. It has been a rough couple days. During the summer we hired someone who turned out to be horrible. He was incompetent, moody, disrespectful, you name it. He was coached to the point of being coddled, given training assignments at half the pace of everyone else and still couldn’t complete them, and when he didn’t reach his goals he accused people of sabotaging him. Then about a month ago, he had a temper tantrum and quit, which saved us the trouble of firing him (which we were planning on doing).

    Well it turns out that his isn’t gone. He has been roaming the neighborhood around work during lunch and confronting people that he recognizes. He says that he is suing the company and that I specifically ruined his life and caused an assortment of mental problems (even though while he was here, he told me about having some mental problems for several years).

    So, security has been alerted, as have HR and legal. People have been told to avoid interacting with them, but that if they can’t help it to report it. The department VP keeps checking on me, which is completely out of character, and telling me to let him know if anything happens. People keep giving me a head tilt and asking me in a quiet voice if everything is OK, which is kind of making things not OK.

    I am a little freaked out because I often run during lunch. Coincidentally, I haven’t been doing that for the last month but was planning on starting again next week, and now I feel that I have to keep looking over my shoulder. However, I feel like I have to start running again to make a statement that this nutjob isn’t going to control me.

    1. Dawn*

      JFC!!! That’s… that is horrible. I encourage you to keep up with your physical fitness, but I also encourage you to NOT go run until this guy has been dealt with. It’s a horrible truth that we have to sometimes do these things for our own safety but… this guy sounds off the rails enough to hurt you or worse.

      Stay safe!

      1. Cati*

        Agreed – he sounds potentially dangerous and I would argue that making a statement isn’t worth your personal safety! If you do decide you HAVE to resume, could you recruit a friend to run with you? Definitely do NOT run with headphones in and keep your phone close by and ready to go. Run in highly visible areas only (no secluded paths etc.). I can see why it feels wrong to “let him win” but if he stops getting the thrill of scaring/bothering people in person because he doesn’t see them/they don’t react, hopefully he will move on to the next random thing that provokes his ire.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Can you go run at a gym track or somewhere away from his haunting place? Keeping yourself safe means you don’t put yourself where the potential harm is. It’s not a lack of control; it’s fully choosing to not engage.

      1. Nom d' Pixel*

        Between triathlons and my upcoming ultra marathon, I need more than my evening runs. I can’t stop training indefinitely because of this guy. He does not get to stop me from doing what I enjoy. I might carry pepper spray though.

    3. Mirilla*

      I think I work with the female version of this. These people take no responsibility for their behavior. I’m the target too. I don’t have any good advice but try not to let it take over your brain. This person has mental issues that are beyond what most people can fathom. In my case, she is still employed and the managers only take action if we turn her in. We don’t want to turn her in for obvious reasons, so it’s a no win situation for me. I hope things resolve themselves soon for you.

      1. Nom d' Pixel*

        If someone is unstable, you should let your manager know. At the very least, document it. It took me a bit to start reporting and documenting this guy because I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, or in the case of the mental issues I was respecting his request for discretion. However, by the time I started having conversations with HR, I was able to pull out a notebook with dates for his erratic behavior. For example, I could tell them that on a certain day he accused someone of sabotage when he made a mistake, or on another day he yelled at me then went home saying that he was sick.

        This stuff is definitely getting in my head, though. I have noticed that I am making mistakes that I don’t normally make, so I need to get my head back in the game.

      2. Observer*

        You say that We don’t want to turn her in for obvious reasons, but your reasons are far from obvious. If she’s harassing or threatening people, she needs to be stopped.

        1. Mirilla*

          We have turned her in actually, several times. Several people have spoken up against her. It’s not physical threats though. She’s always the victim, always blaming someone, always starting trouble. She is extremely disruptive & always filing complaints against someone, not just at work, but in her personal life too. She’s paranoid (seriously) and thinks everyone is out to get her. It’s exhausting. She has zero ability to self-reflect so you can’t reason with her. She’ll attack you if you point anything out to her and say that you did it, not her. We don’t have a manager so the only time she is held accountable is if one of us reports her to the higher ups. I’m fed up and searching for a job where people are held accountable for their behavior. She’s probably one more complaint away from being let go but I have recently seen the extent of her hatred towards me (thanks to an open air meeting where she targeted me with absurd accusations) so I don’t want to be the final whistle-blower. There’s something wrong with her. It’s an awful situation to be in. Poor management is the bottom line which has allowed this to continue for over a year with very few check-ins or concern as to how the office is running. They don’t ask because they don’t want to know. We don’t bring it up because she scares the crap out of us. It’s dysfunctional.

    4. Nom d' Pixel*

      Thanks for your concern, everyone. It does look like security is taking this seriously. I had to come into work for a couple hours this morning, and I saw that the pedestrian gate, which is usually kept unlocked but doesn’t have a security guard, is padlocked. It sucks that the people who walk to work or during lunch will have to go through the main gate now, but it is reassuring.

    5. Observer*

      I’m going to agree with everyone who says that when you run you need to not run in secluded areas or with headphones in. Also, if you have a smartphone, look into the Companion app. It was developed by a bunch of students worried about campus assaults, but this sounds like a perfect use for it.

      Link in a response.

  121. Uni Admin*

    I just wanted to share that, thanks in part to this website, I finally have a permanent, full time job after 5+ years of contracts and searching. Alison’s tips were definitely invaluable when it came to interview prep!

  122. NerdyCanuck*

    Well, I finally heard back from that job I interviewed for a couple weeks ago. With the news that they were going with someone else.

    Dammit.

  123. Jennifer*

    Oh, I got in trouble for pissing off a manager for saying someone e-mailed a lot. I apologized and I think things are fine (pointed out that we have been stressed out since about 8:02 a.m.), but…sigh. I just need to NOT SPEAK.

  124. Anon for this*

    I had a phone conversation with my boss this week that I had been dreading the whole weekend before that. Told him about why I have been sick so much this year (three miscarriages), and he was very understanding and sympathetic and it’s no problem that I am taking at least two weeks off for this.

    This is a time to be grateful for small joys, so that is nice.

    1. Winter is Coming*

      I am so sorry, what an awful year it must have been for you!! Wonderful that your boss was so nice about it though.

    2. Florida*

      Nothing is better than a boss who acts like a real human being – someone who is sympathetic and recognizes that their employees are also humans. I’m sorry it’s been such a rough year for you, but I’m glad to hear that your boss is one of the good ones who gets it.

  125. Tau*

    I had a meeting for the end of my probation period this week and… well. I figured that probation had been going pretty well all things told since in the course of my teapot design training I’d gotten some praise and hadn’t been told of any problems and that they’d say I’d passed probation as I was generally doing fine and point out some areas for improvement.

    It appears I vastly underestimated how well I’d been doing!

    In the meeting I was told that I was amazing and that I had the potential to become one of the best teapot designers in the company. (That last part was actually in writing.) I have rarely been heaped with so many compliments during such a short period of time. The take-away was basically “keep doing what you’re doing because you’re fantastic and we love you.” I’m not planning to rest on my laurels and do have some areas I was already planning to keep an eye on, but… WOW.

    I may have spent most of the rest of the day walking around with a silly grin on my face.

    On which note, subject change! Now that I’ve finished probation, there’s a pretty high chance my job will become very very travel-heavy, possibly 100% travel (along the lines of staying at one place in a hotel during the week and traveling home for weekends), in the near future. Does anyone have any business travel tips to share, particularly for this amount of travel? Where to get food in the evenings (I’ve been a bit worried about managing to eat reasonably healthily if I don’t have access to a kitchen), anything to keep in mind when staying in hotels, traintips, etc.? I’m in the UK, if that makes a difference.

    1. Lindsay J*

      Hopefully they put you up somewhere that has a kitchenette at least.

      When my boyfriend was on a temporary travel assignment they put him up in a residence inn, which had a little kitchenette, and the hotel even had a service where you could check off items on a grocery list and they would bring them to you, He had a full size fridge, rangetop, and microwave (no oven though I don’t think.)

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      One of the things I love about the UK is easy access to healthy (well, marginally healthy) prepared or semi-prepared foods. I once had an amazing New Year’s dinner catered entirely by Waitrose! If you’re in a place with a kitchenette or a microwave, consider that section of a nearby market (or M&S? It’s been a few years) and pick up some vegetables or healthy meat options to heat up.

    3. misspiggy*

      Justeat.com for local food delivery, and Tripadvisor for eating out recommendations. Some hotels offer kitchenettes with microwaves, but that amount of travel will leave you pretty tired, so hotels with room service might be better. Even cheaper places like Premier Inn often offer that. Push back against low food expense allowances – the exhaustion caused by travelling that much should put you in a much higher expenses category than occasional travellers, and any decent company should recognise that. Check out Internet signal strength wherever you stay, or consider asking your company to pay for a decent data package.

    4. AnotherFed*

      Buy a second set of charger cords for all of your electronics, and keep one at home and one in your travel bag. That way you don’t have to worry about whether you remembered to pack your laptop power cord (or worse, figure out how to replace it while you’re on travel).

      For food, ask the people you’re meeting with what their recommendations are for lighter or more interesting cuisine – people are usually pretty happy to highlight the local places they’re proud of or excited about, and everyone can understand that you’ll get tired of pub fare and microwaveable pre-made meals!

      1. BRR*

        For chargers you can also get a portable battery back with a usb port for like $10. It’s been awesome for my long commute.

  126. SH*

    I recently started taking Buddhist meditation classes and love it so much that I plan to start practicing the religion. Since I’m so new to it I’m just easing into it with classes and I plan to attend one of their weekend services. They offer two early morning services during the week that last until mid-morning. Eventually, I’ll want to attend at least one of those services. My current employer is very generous about this stuff. However, I was wondering how I should go about it when I eventually switch jobs. I should add that I’m an Administrative Assistant . Thanks!

    1. Jennifer*

      That’ll depend on your job. I assumed you’d probably have to use vacation time for them somewhere else, if they let you out.

  127. Cati*

    I have a coworker who sweats a LOT, to the point that the armpits of every shirt he wears gets soaked to the size of basketballs. He does a lot of presentations for our team and frankly it’s super distracting and a little gross. I used to have this problem and learned of shirt liners you can put on the inside of your clothes that are invisible from the outside but prevent the awkward sweat-stain issue. Is there a non offensive/awkward way to bring this up or should I just leave him be? I waffle on this because I was so relieved when I found the shirt liners… but maybe he just doesn’t care.

    1. Ad Astra*

      What’s your relationship like with this coworker? This would be tough feedback to hear from someone you didn’t consider a friend. Has he ever mentioned it before, like a self-deprecating comment about how he’s sweating like a maniac after that presentation?

      1. Cati*

        He is a coworker but I am not super close with him, otherwise you’re right it would be easier to bring up. He hasn’t ever mentioned it out loud either. Seems like the obvious answer here is to leave it be!

    2. Anony*

      Maybe you could send an email to the whole team with a link to it? Say something like “wow, what a cool/useful invention!” and hope he takes the hint without embarrassing him.

      1. CMT*

        I think that would make things waaaaaaaaaaaay more awkward. I’m sure this guy already knows it’s an issue. He would know OP is talking about him. Also, how weird would it be to get an email from your coworker talking about how cool sweat shields are?

    3. Jennifer*

      Ah…those shirt liners do not work as well as you think they do. Or at least, the ones I’ve seen were pretty much like sticking regular ol’ printer paper on your armpits and they didn’t stay on so well.

  128. CheeryO*

    General rant: It’s 2015, and I (a female engineer) am still getting letters that include me on the cc list that are addressed “Dear Gentlemen.” Is it horrible to say that I can’t wait until the current crop of 55-65 year old men in my industry retire? Of course they don’t all do that, but an alarming number of them do.

    1. Nom d' Pixel*

      I am a female scientist, so I feel your pain, although my field has gotten much better since I entered it about 15 years ago. The older I get, the less tolerant I get of that sort of thing, and I have reached the point where I will just call people on it (the exception being my boss who is not a native English speaker and struggles with pronouns in general).

    2. AnotherFed*

      ??? CC list means the email isn’t to you, you’re just copied. If you’re on the TO line, that’s another story.

      1. Can't Think Of A More Clever Anon Name Today*

        Often the CC field is used to copy all staff on a project etc.. semantics here. The fact of the matter is, not everyone in the workforce is male/gentleman and there are other ways to address a whole people than that outdated way.

      2. CheeryO*

        Yeah, I could have been more specific, but I get a lot of letters that just have all the relevant parties in the cc list and aren’t addressed to anyone in particular. (I’m in government, and sometimes people need to inform us via letter that something is happening, so they just throw every potentially-relevant person on a distribution list.)

  129. JAL*

    I know I’m late in the game, but I need to vent because this pretty much just happened:

    I’m employed full-time, non-exempt with hourly pay. There are often ‘dry’ periods where we don’t get a lot of work and our hours are cut. Previous to this week, the lowest it has ever been was my normal 40 hours was cut to 28-30 hours, which is manageable to my finances. However, this week I was working Tuesday through Saturday (I had to stay home Monday due to the Internet company installing cable in my new apartment). I had a full shift on Tuesday, but Wednesday I got sent home after almost 6 hours and yesterday I was sent home after an hour and a half. Today I got called off again and tomorrow’s shift was cancelled as well. Needless to say, I’m actively job hunting and not being picky about it, because this is now survival mode.

  130. Random CPA*

    I’m just barely a millennial. I know a lot of people my age both in my field and outside of it (but all salaried) that would love to work reduced schedules and would be willing to take a reduction in salary to do so. Do you think that as millennials start moving into executive level roles that flexibility like this will become more commonplace?

    1. Regina 2*

      God, I hope so. I was just thinking that I would take a dramatic pay cut if I could drop to 25 hours a week. The problem is our health insurance is tied to our employment in the US, so there is no way I could actually work part-time without taking on such a risk.

      I don’t think I will live to see the change, sadly. I am also a millennial.

      1. The IT Manager*

        Me too. I’d happily take a substantial pay cut for less hours, but even though I don’t use much medical care I can’t afford to lose it.

    2. CheeryO*

      I hope so too. Technology has really made the 40 hour workweek obsolete for many positions, but of course I don’t see the tide turning on that anytime soon. My employer offers a voluntary work reduction schedule, but it isn’t very well utilized other than by women with small kids. Personally, I’m going to be all over the 80% schedule (30 hours for us)/pay once I’m a bit more established. I believe there is also a 60% option, but I doubt I’d be able to get all my work done in 22.5 hours per week.

    3. Ad Astra*

      Could be. But, with millennials being so deep in student loan debt, I wonder how many of them will be able to take a pay cut for flexibility. In theory, I’d rather work a reduced schedule than be rich. But I still need a certain amount of money to live, and when your student loan payments are more than your rent, the margins get pretty slim. I would guess you might see more of this in engineering and other fields where the starting salaries are relatively high.

      1. afiendishthingy*

        Agreed. I’m an over-30 Millennial. I talk a lot about my dream schedule, which is 10-3, Monday – Thursday, but it’s always with the caveat of “if I could live on it.” And I work in human services, and between undergrad and grad school (which furthered my career a whole lot!) I am about $55k in debt. So yeah, that’s not going to happen.

      2. overeducated and underemployed*

        Agreed as well. I work part time now (60% or 80% depending on the season) and I love it, but since my salary would be low even at full time, it’s not sustainable. It seems like a lot of the jobs that do offer part time hours also pay a lot less than average, so it’s not like just taking 20% off of a higher full time salary.

      3. Random CPA*

        Even though for some it’s not sustainable to take a pay cut, I still think it’s interesting that the people who have responded haven’t said that they’d like to pursue as much money as they could, which is how I think many of my bosses, current and past, feel. I don’t feel like I ever need to be wealthy. As long as I can pay my bills and save for retirement, I’m happy with more time for my family. I don’t want a lot of extra stuff or a fancy car or big house.

        My husband could a lot of his work from home. He works for his father. He asked to take a 20% pay cut and work 4 days a week, but his father said no because he felt like my husband needs to be there each day (even though most time is spent addressing emails and talking with vendors on the phone). His dad is very old school. But once my husband and his brother take over the business, I know they’re both going to work reduced schedules and would allow their employees to do the same.

        I hope that other millennials will make positive changes in workplace when we take over.

  131. Anon and on and on*

    I’ve only been at my current job for 6 months, but I already have an interview with a different company next week. The job I have now is fine overall, but I feel pretty meh about the work itself, I don’t fit in with the company culture, and I really hate our pathetically tiny vacation package (one week per year, and I’m not entry level). I took this job because I was collecting unemployment and wasn’t allowed to turn down an offer.

    I think I’d be happier with this other company, though I’m not sure yet if the specific position is right for me.

    Would I be crazy to take a new job after only 6 months?

    1. Lindsay J*

      I think if you otherwise have a solid work history, and you feel like you would be in the other job for a solid amount of time you’re fine and not crazy at all.

      If you have a bunch of one year stays (or even less) then I would be a lot more concerned. In that case you’d have to look more at how long you anticipate being in the new job. If you feel like you’d have to move on after a couple years it seems a lot riskier than if you plan on being there like 5 years where any previous job-hopping might not matter so much anymore.

      1. Anon and on and on*

        I’m on my third job since college, with a 2.5-year stay at one job and a 1.5ish-year stay at the second job. I was laid off from the second job, but this is an industry where layoffs are common and most people have to change companies/markets to move up. My big fear is that I’ll accept an offer and realize I don’t want to stay for 5 more years.

        From the ad, this position sounds like something I could definitely do well but I’m worried that I’d get bored. I’ll have a better idea after the interview, but for now I’m thinking it may be a way to make connections in case a more interesting position opens up down the road.

    2. Delyssia*

      Only you can decide what’s right for you, but I absolutely don’t believe it’s necessarily “crazy” to take a new job after 6 months. The only caveats I would offer are to try to make sure you’re not looking at the new opportunity with rose-colored glasses, and try to make sure it’s someplace you can see yourself staying for *at least* 2-3 years, so you don’t get labeled a job-hopper.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      Not crazy, but be picky, because if you jump out of the frying pan into the fire, it will be MUCH harder to leave the next job with two short stints instead of one.

  132. TotesMaGoats*

    Quite irritated this week with some of my colleagues. All week I’ve been referred to as something other than my actual title that diminishes my authority. “The admissions coordinator” “the admissions person” “the girl who does admissions”. I’m the director of admissions. For the entire grad school. It’s deliberate. I addressed it with one but it’s a marker of how they treat each other.

    1. fposte*

      Yeah, that would bother me. Not sure what you’re meaning with “it’s deliberate” but also “a marker of how they treat each other,” though–do you mean nobody stands on title formality? I wouldn’t worry about it as much if so.

      1. TotesMaGoats*

        I meant it’s deliberate in that they all clearly know my title and it was used because they were ticked about some tiny thing. It was done to belittle which ties into how they treat each other. Sometimes all is well and sometimes they jump down your throat over minor things. Massive PTSD in the whole department from years of unmanaged personnel conflict.

        1. fposte*

          “The girl who does admissions” is seriously belittling. But it sounds like it’s just a symptom of a larger problem; I hope you find a way to negotiate it all.

    2. Nom d' Pixel*

      This sounds like something where you will need to repeat yourself. Whenever someone diminishes your position, and calling you “the girl” sounds especially disrespectful, just say, “I am the Director of Admissions.” Make it a simple statement of fact and move on. Treat it the same way you would any other mistake. If someone says that a fee is $25, but it is really $50, you would correct that in a very matter-of-fact way. This is the same thing.

  133. I am now 50 years old*

    I’m sure this has been asked before but here’s my stab at at it…
    I’m in a role for 10+ months now, and my employer’s policies are cruddy. And I was outright lied to regarding some specific policies. Not at all standard operations for the industry that I’ve been a part of for 5 years. But on paper it seems like a great role.
    So I’ve been interviewing for about 2 months now, and naturally I get asked why I’m looking elsewhere after only 10 months – a valid question but I can’t bad mouth my current boss. All I can truthfully say is “it’s not the right fit”…is that enough? Some (not all) interviewers press me for details, and while I don’t get ugly, I do say “the company is not in synch with the rest of the industry”. I keep it upbeat, but it doesn’t always work. Any other ideas or answers I could use?

    1. Madison*

      Wow, I could have written this post. I’m leaving my new position after 6 months because of the same things you stated above. I’ve just been telling people ‘it wasn’t a right fit’ when people inside the company ask me why I’m leaving, but how do I reply to questions about where I’m going when I don’t have anything else lined up yet?

      I plan to use the ‘wasn’t a right fit’ line in interviews unless they really press me for a reason.

    2. AnotherFed*

      I’m not sure from your descriptions whether it’s policies on benefits, processes, or compliance with industry regulations, but can you reframe it as “I’m really looking for a position that has specific policy X/focuses more on specific policy Y/is at the forefront of the industry in thing Z” so that you aren’t badmouthing the old org so much as emphasizing what you’d like/be good at in the new one?

  134. Regina 2*

    What are some good ways to approach flex-time conversations in a performance review setting?

    In any other organization I’ve worked at, my request would not be unreasonable — I am salaried and routinely work 50 hours a week, and so I’d like to take the occasional lunch break to take a dance class at gym, or leave once a week at 4:30 to do the same. My fitness level has dropped dramatically since I started this job; I even used to teach a dance class that I had told the company about upfront when I first started, but I had to give it up because the schedule was so erratic and the job stressful. The only exercise I like is dancing, and the only places that offer classes I want to take are mid-day or right at 5. But, you’re considered a slacker if you leave work at 5:30 here, so it seems impossible I’ll ever get to participate in these activities I enjoy because of my work.

    However, the company (and my boss specifically) keeps talking about health and wellness, especially in wake of several people quitting and re-org of our department. Now that I have a performance review coming up, I want to make a case for flex-time. (Though seriously, I feel like a 1.5 hour lunch once a week and an early leave once a week is hardly flex-time, but whatever.).

    Given my work culture, how do you think I could position this?

    1. misspiggy*

      Not sure whether you need to make a case for flex time, if you just want the one longer lunch and the early departure on one day. You could just say, ‘the recent focus on health and wellness has made me realise how much I miss the dance classes I used to take. I’m keen to start them again, and that would mean a 1.5 hour lunch break on x day and leaving at 4.45 on y day. I’d obviously make up the time during the rest of the week, but is that OK for you?’ If they start being awkward you could bring in the excellent arguments you make above, but if you go in assuming that it’s no big deal, hopefully they will respond accordingly.

  135. Poplar Bennie*

    I know that people here are often trying to solve conundrums involving headphones, being able to hear things outside of headphones, hating earbuds and all the related listening-to-music-or-covering-up-inane-conversation issues we face in the workplace… thought this might be a good solution for some of you! Just discovered these bone-conducting headphones, which don’t cover your ears and deliver sound similar to the way that cochlear implants deliver sound (which makes them good for some kinds of hearing loss as well).

    http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/1f54/?srp=3

  136. "Jayne"*

    This will probably go unnoticed, as I decided to post somewhat late, but I just wanted to say how awesome this forum is. Everyone is so helpful, caring, and nice! I don’t post a lot because I don’t have a lot of experience — I read to learn, and I just love how uplifting everyone is! I love that people take the time to answer fully, or ask the OP questions, and just give general encouragement to strangers. It’s one of my favorite things about this website.

    1. fposte*

      We will not let your nice comment go unnoticed! I know Alison sees them and I’m sure it means a lot to her, and we’re happy to bask in reflected glory.

  137. DarcyPennell*

    We have two new hires starting in our group next week (hooray! We really need the help!) I’d like to make them feel welcome. Would it be appropriate to get them each a little something to brighten their desk? Just a token, not a gift of any expense. Or is it better to stick to non tangible things like inviting them to have lunch with us. If this is an ok thing to do, suggestions would be greatly appreciated! My group almost never adds staff so none of us has much experience with this.

    1. katamia*

      Definitely go with lunch/nontangible stuff. You don’t know if they’re “stuff people.” (There’s probably a more eloquent term for this.) I am Not a Stuff Person and hate having clutter on my desk but would feel super awkward about not having something on my desk that a new coworker gave me even if I didn’t want it. A friendly, non-mandatory-sounding/easy-to-reject-without-being-awkward lunch invite or two would probably be a safer choice.

      1. Sadsack*

        Yes, the only appropriate stuff may be stress balls with your business logo or other company-related things.

    2. Lindsay J*

      Only stuff I’d go with is a plant (and a nonflowering one b/c allergies and scent sensitivities). Aloe is cool and near impossible to kill.

      Otherwise I’d go with lunch, which has the benefit of helping them to get to know y’all better and feel more comfortable.

      1. DarcyPennell*

        I think you’re right about lunch. I love plants and have them all over my desk, but I would never give a plant to someone unless I knew they wanted it and could take care of it. Sadly, aloe is not impossible to kill for many folks! And I know from painful experience that it makes people feel bad to give them a plant which slowly dies.

    4. DarcyPennell*

      Thanks everyone for the good advice! We’ll stick to lunch invitations. I know one person on my team wishes we all had lunch together every day, and maybe one or both of the new folks will want to as well.

      1. AnotherFed*

        And don’t just leave it at one welcome lunch – continue to engage them and make them feel like part of the team in all the little ways. Especially for new people joining a close team, making sure to include them in the inside jokes, daily routines, and chit-chat will help keep them from feeling left out or isolated, even if it takes them a while to build the same level of relationship with the rest of you.

    5. Meg Murry*

      Maybe I’m late to this, but while I agree that you don’t need to get them a present for their desks, making sure their desks are neat, clean and in working order can go a long way toward making a good first impression. I feel like some companies have just given me the desk someone left, still half full of their old junk, or sticky and dusty, or with the oldest chair where none of the adjusters work. Giving their work area a once over for unnecessary junk/old and irrelevant files, and a quick wipe down with a paper towel can help a lot, and maybe stocking with a few items from the supply cabinet would be a nice welcome.

  138. Xanthippe Lannister Voorhees*

    What’s the best way to list committee involvement through work (on a resume): Under the job description (Tea Pot Designer: Served on Tea Pot Outreach committee) or as a separate entity?

    1. Florida*

      I would list it as a bullet in your accomplishments under each job.

      If it is a committee for a professional organization that is separate, but related from work (like you served on the professional development committee for the National Association of Teapot Makers), I would list it as a separate entity.

  139. StuckInARut*

    Hi everyone! Long time reader, first time poster. I’ve been stuck at my low-paying job for a while now and I don’t have any leads at the moment. I’ve done everything I can cover letter and resume wise, and even saw a career counsellor for a while (it wasn’t worth it, in my opinion, and now I’m down nearly $2000). I’ve also networked but that hasn’t seemed to help either. I’m in publishing, and I’m hoping to move about an hour and a half away to be closer to my partner, but publishing jobs don’t really exist there. I was looking into more communications roles or content marketing but I find no one will even take a look at my resume if I don’t have previous experience. Does anyone have any advice for getting into these roles?

    On another note, I’m also a huge empath (INFJ), and have thought about counselling as a possible new career, though I’m not sure if I would be able to do (read: afford) a social work degree. Is there any other way to break into the field that’s a little less expensive and time-consuming? (I’m in Ontario if that makes any difference).

    1. c*

      You might look into higher education. I also have a communications background, and it has been so helpful in a higher ed environment. They are always looking for effective ways to communicate with students. Most positions in student affairs or academic advising would allow you the opportunity work directly with students. As a bonus, higher ed is a field that values advanced degrees, so you are more likely to gain some kind of tuition break or reimbursement if you decide you want to pursue counseling.

      1. StuckInARut*

        That’s definitely a good idea – thanks for replying too. I’ve actually looked at positions in higher ed but the ones I’ve applied for have been sent into the resume black hole and I’ve never had a nibble. I also had an informational interview with someone at a university in their annual giving department, but no leads from that either. I’ve also had my resume reviewed by Alison, and other hiring managers have said my resume is good, so I’m not sure if that’s the problem. Higher ed is something I’m definitely interested in. How did you get into higher ed, if I can ask? If anyone has further advice/connections please let me know! :)

    2. Mirilla*

      Hello fellow INFJ! I’m an empath too and have ruled out counseling because I have problems separating myself from other people’s emotional issues. I just wanted to point that out to you as a possible issue if you are an emotional sponge like I am. I actually have a B.A. in Psych. but am not using it.

      1. StuckInARut*

        Yeah I actually had a similar thought. I too might get sucked in and not be able to separate things. I guess I’ll just have to see if it becomes debilitating.

        INFJs unite! :)

  140. Madison*

    So I posted last week that today would be my last day in hell-job.

    Well, the problem with hell is that it pays really really well.

    They offered me triple my salary to stay for another two weeks because it turned out all the positions this position backs up were ALL going on vacation for the next two weeks and they hadn’t yet hired anyone (which is another WTF because I gave them two months notice I was quitting – their request, not mine. I wanted to leave immediately but see not above about how hell pays really well).

    1. Mander*

      So tempting! Do you have another thing lined up to start immediately? If not I’d probably take it, but not worry about how well I’m performing because what are they going to do, fire me?

      Assuming that their offer is in writing, of course!

      1. Madison*

        I don’t have anything lined up yet, so I went ahead and said yes. It is tolerable because awful manager who is the reason I’m quitting will be gone almost the entire two weeks.

  141. Banana*

    I have a potentially good but sticky situation.
    So I recently got hired (yey!) for a job that’s turned out to be not all that (boo!). It is at a large institution that will provide many opportunities over time.. I have wanted to break into this sector for a long time and finally did. The job itself is much more entry level than I understood (like my colleagues in the same role are straight out of grad school and I’ve had about a decade of post grad experience.
    I figured I’d just hang tight for a year or two, make some connections and learn everything I can learn before finding something more fitting within the same institution or another similar institution within the sector.

    After being here only 3 weeks, I’ve had a colleague from another department want to bring me in for an interview for a much better fitting role. I’ve made it very clear that I do not want to jeopardize my current role in any way and she said we can meet without making it public, at least at first. Then, her bosses (who have a lot of pull) can make things happen.
    Obviously, I’d be pissing some people off if this all happened. But the question is, is there any harm in having an informal discussion about the role?

    1. misspiggy*

      I really don’t think so – in fact this sounds ideal, as long as the colleague is discreet. And even if they’re not, it’s not like you would get fired for looking – you were approached, and you’re considering using your skills in a different way to the benefit of the organisation. The worst you’d be likely to get is some sniffy treatment in your current team, but if your skills are already being recognised by other teams it sounds like you won’t be stuck there too long.

    2. AnotherFed*

      An internal transfer where they approached you is a very different story from either continuing to job search or talking to someone external. In many places, the piece of the organization that hired you may be irritated, but you’re still part of the overall organization so it’s mostly a net win and not going to be held against you even in relations with the original people who hired you in.

    3. Can't Think Of A More Clever Anon Name Today*

      Also, if it pans out, you’re so new in your current role, it’s not like they’ll be losing a long time employee where it’s going to require a lot of transition of you leaving etc. They’ll of course need to hire again, but hopefully you’ll be able to give appropriate notice for them to do so. Not to mention, you definitely owe yourself a chance at exploring this opportunity that came to you lest you become upset in a role that is beneath your experience and become resentful or unhappy in your job.

      Definitely have the discussion! See how it pans out, and if it does, do your best to make the transition easy for everyone. Honestly, I wish you luck and hope you get to move into a role that better fits your experience and your desires for your career!

    4. Banana*

      Thanks, all! I feel better. You’re right, I wasn’t looking and it is the same organization…
      I think I’ll go ahead and have some quiet talks and see what develops. I would kick myself if I missed this opportunity!

  142. Tagg*

    I just need to say that yesterday, one of my coworkers decided it would be appropriate to paint her toenails while sitting at the nurse’s station.

    I just… what??

  143. SoAnonymousToday*

    My husband has been fired or had his position dissolved three times in two years, and now it’s happening again. He started a new job this year and told me it was going well. However, he just got a horrible review, with the manager citing the same problems as previous managers had: asking the same questions over and over again, not being able to remember anything, being uninvolved in decision making, and not finishing the work. He allowed me to read the review, and I told him the truth—this is what all of your managers have said and what I’ve noticed at home. Please go see a counselor, they may be able to help you with this.

    Aside from the obvious financial problem this is going to cause, I’m extremely concerned about his physical and mental health. He’s never been a stellar employee and has ADD, but he’s never been like this until the past few years. I’m afraid he might have an undiagnosed medical condition.

    Anyway, he became very defensive and was upset that I felt that way. Clearly, his manager was the one to blame because he was a bad manager (as were all the other ones). He demanded that I give the review back because he “didn’t want me to have it.” He’s in complete denial and hasn’t talked to me in days. I’m assuming that he’s acting passive-aggressive at work and looking for another job.

    And now…I don’t know what to do next. Anyone ever dealt with something like this before?

    1. Jennifer*

      I’m with you, it does sound like a medical problem. But unfortunately, you can’t force him to go to a doctor or get out of denial.
      I think if I were you, I’d be planning ways to become a one-income household because as he is, he doesn’t sound like he is actually up to doing a job somehow.

    2. Allie*

      My fiance’s dad was like this. Unfortunately it took several major, traumatic life events, including deaths in the family, happening in quick succession to get him to wise up and finally get an official diagnosis. He’s been a lot better after getting on medication thankfully, but I wish it hadn’t taken all of that to shake him out of denial.

      I hope your husband calms down eventually and sees the sense in what you asked him. I agree with Jennifer that it doesn’t sound like he will ever really be a good fit for any employer, until he gets checked out – so the best thing for you to do is to explore your options in terms of household income and getting yourself through this.

      Best of luck to you.

    3. LibbyG*

      My sympathies! It must be so hard. I used to be with someone who had some similar issues. In my case, I quickly found that he couldn’t accept having me in a career-coach role no matter what I said. I had to focus on being the spouse. It was hard. I couldn’t participate in his denial, but I tried to find opportunities to be authentically supportive. Like Jennifer says, you can’t really make him do anything. You can only control your own actions. Best of luck!!

    4. BRR*

      ADD here and fired twice in the past three years. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to help. You might want to seek out a therapist for yourself.

      1. Can't Think Of A More Clever Anon Name Today*

        Perhaps getting a therapist for yourself is a GOOD idea, one that might also show him that there’s no shame and shouldn’t be a stigma behind it. It *might* help open him to the idea of getting some help for himself as well?? If he isn’t already of course… I wonder if he is managing his ADD with outside help and/or medication if it’s really affecting him this way.

        He might also need a cooling off period before hearing your opinion, even if he inside he agrees with you and knows you’re right, he wants to be a victim right now. Definitely be prepared for this job to go south as well, because he doesn’t sound like he’s willing to accept that he is the common denominator in these problems. This must be really difficult for you as well.

        If there ARE other things that are pressing that make you concerned for his health outside of his ADD I would probably still try to find a way to talk to him about it (maybe framing it so that is has NOTHING to do with the sensitive topic of his performance at work) to see if he can at least get a once or twice over from a doctor. Best wishes.

    5. Observer*

      When is the next time he’s seeing his physician? Please talk to his doctor about this. Now, it’s possible that due to HIPAA, he won’t be able to tell you anything, but he certainly can listen. And what you are describing is a huge red flag. Make sure you tell him that this is NOT just your opinion, but the FOURTH TIME IN TWO YEARS that a manager at work has highlighted some of these issues. You should not need the outside validation, but unfortunately too many doctors dismiss what wives have to say (actually what women in general have to say.)

    6. Soanonymoustoday*

      Thank you everyone for your comments. It’s really helpful to get some clarity. I don’t feel like I can talk to anyone around me because they are too close to the situation.

      I have free counseling through work, so I’m definitely going to take advantage.

  144. B.*

    Does anyone have any advice about how to manage someone who is a complete nightmare to you, but turns sweet-as-sugar-pie in front of higher ups?

    While we are technically peers in a day-to-day capacity, I was put in charge of a project that he is supporting, and he is pissed off that he’s not the lead. He’s been passive-aggressive and stalling the entire time, and even goes as far as outright panicking other team members about whether this project will create more work for them (spoiler alert: it will create LESS work for them, definitively). At one of our worse project meetings, he point blank said that he’s the expert and that I should step down if I had any integrity. This is patently false–he has no idea how to manage people, do training, or implement something widely. His support role–if he were behaving appropriately or could do it, frankly–is absolutely where we need him. Upper management gets all this, at least, but they don’t understand nor would they believe the extent at which he is sabotaging (and yes, I’d use that word) the project.

    The main crux of the issue is he is a tech guy who is objectively terrible at his job AND/OR is a manipulative weasel. He either doesn’t understand how to run basic scripts or even how do basic functions on a PC (i.e., think clicking through hundreds of files to find the last date modified rather than setting it as a default view) AND/OR he’s pretending not to, which would be even worse. However, said higher-ups have extremely limited knowledge of technology, and thus think he’s “brilliant.” So when he says that something very basic can’t be done or is 10000x more complicated that I *know* it is, they defer to his judgment because he’s technically the tech guy who also speaks confidently and with big words (albeit completely out of his butt).

    Any advice? I really feel like the project might just be doomed and a point proven that jerks really do win sometimes.

    1. Mander*

      Maybe you could teach one of the higher ups just how easy it is to do some of these things, and then they might get a clue that he’s not all that (or is at least pretending not to be).

  145. discarvard*

    First-time commenter, longtime fan of the blog! After graduating from college, and then a year in retail, I’ve finally decided to use a staffing agency. What are your tips for getting the most out of a staffing agency relationship? The recruiter I’ve been in touch with is very nice and seems like a good match, but I have no idea what else to expect.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Just keep in mind that it’s the staffing agency’s job to find its clients workers, not its job to find you a job. That may sound like a distinction without a difference, but it’s a matter of priorities. If you want to be on your recruiter’s good side, be open to possibilities.

    2. KS*

      I’ve used a couple staffing agencies since I graduated college in May 2014. I’ve had good and bad experiences. It’s really important to speak up for yourself and don’t be afraid to ask questions or turn down a job. One of the agencies I used would not listen to me and do the bait and switch. Told me for one job they placed me in that it had the opportunity to go full time but on my first day the manager mentioned that I was covering for two weeks while an employee was on medical leave.

      But I ended up not using them again and now I’m at a full time job I love and was placed at by a staffing agencies.

  146. BRR*

    Dry office air, do people have any solutions? I don’t want to bring in a big humidifier but can somebody recommend a desktop one or something that has worked for them. If it matters, I work in a super duper open floor plan.

    2. Anonsie*

      I saw a little humidifier you attach to the top of a water bottle on Road Warriorette a few months ago, I looked it up on Amazon and the reviews are mostly good. It’s called the Satechi Humidifier and is around $30. I haven’t tried it personally though so I can’t vouch for its efficacy.

      It’s just been sitting in my wishlist while I try to decide whether having a greasy face is an ok tradeoff for my knuckles not getting all scaly in the winter. I usually use a de-humidifier at home because I actually hate damp air and it’s very humid here, but at work I have to wash my hands constantly so it’s a thing.

      1. Vanishing Girl*

        I have one of these and like it a lot! It does get mineral buildup every so often and I have to soak it in vinegar, but otherwise it puts out a lot of moisture. I think it helps my dry eyes and my skin as well.

  147. NotThisAgain*

    I am a seated contractor at a client site where there are 2 people from my company. The second person just quit and is our second person through that position in less than a year. I am the junior person, so I really have no impact over the hiring process, but I’m thinking about asking my manager if I can do a phone screen with candidates so that I can try and feel out who might be the best fit for this client. I can’t decide if that’s out of line? My manager is remote (lives in another state) so I only see him once or twice a year. It is a small company. I am just hoping to get somebody in here who can do the work, gets along with the client and makes everybody happy so it reflects well on the company. Thoughts?

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      Maybe ask if you can listen in on the phone call, which sounds less presumptuous, and stay on IM with your manager to prompt them with questions if you think of anything. At least that way you can address things you heard in the interview with your manager, and give them your input. Since you’re on site with the client all the time, she should value your input, even if she knows the tasks of the job perfectly well.

  148. JiraMaster*

    My company announced this week that only married employees would be allowed to bring guests to this year’s holiday party. I know AAM’s position on this is that it’s normal, but it’s still a huge bummer. Given that we’re a small, diverse startup with lots of LGBT folks, it feels exclusionary and wrong.

    Last year’s party everyone was allowed to bring a guest, we had a great time, and I was really looking forward to this year’s party. I can’t see myself going and watching my married coworkers having fun with their spouses while my live-in boyfriend of many years sits at home by himself. I would have been fine with a no-guest policy if they’re trying to save money, but I don’t like that some people are getting a perk that other people aren’t.

    1. I'm Not Phyllis*

      Yah, that’s not cool. I’d speak with my manager about it and see if you can’t get them to change their minds, or at least explain the rationale behind that decision. Barring that, I’d honestly be tempted not to go.

      1. JiraMaster*

        The rationale is money but it seems like an odd way of cutting costs, since I think a no-guests policy wouldn’t have inspired nearly as much outrage and would have been even cheaper. I did mention it to a higher-up and was told I wasn’t the only one who was upset, it was a unilateral decision of the party committee, and has been brought to the attention of the C-team. So it’s possible things may change but I’m not betting on it. I will probably spend the evening of the party with some of my coworkers and their boyfriends who are in the same position. :)

    2. xarcady*

      At OldJob, the gossiping was non-stop, so as a non-married person, I a) did not want to listen to speculation for the next year about whether or not I would marry the guest I had brought and b) did not want to subject any guest to the questioning that would ensue if I brought them to an office function.

      The first few years, the holiday party was for employees only, and it was fun. I was able to chat with people I rarely saw and I had a good time.

      Then the policy changed and everyone could bring a guest. Many of those who were not in long-term relationships or married felt pressured to bring a guest, any guest. And because I still continued to attend by myself, I found the atmosphere very changed.

      The couples mainly kept to themselves. It was much more difficult to engage co-workers in conversation. Mostly, I got asked why I was there alone. Gee, thanks, folks, that’s all you can think about?

      With no assigned seats, I’d stake out a place early on. But I was a single at a table with an even number of seats. Which meant that as the table filled up, couples who wanted to sit there couldn’t, because there was only one seat left. Twice I was asked to leave a table, a table filled with people from my own department, who I thought were my friends, so that a couple could sit there. And, of course, by that point, most of the seats were taken, and the option was to sit at the table of high-school interns–which the couple was trying to avoid doing. But it was okay to send me to sit there, because I was single, I guess.

      Having some attendees with guests and some without isn’t fair. I know I brought things on myself by refusing to invite someone, but the results were the same as if I’d been forbidden to bring anyone—and it was not pleasant.

      (And, sadly, attending by myself didn’t stop the gossip. Some pretty nasty rumors were spread about why I didn’t bring anyone. You just can’t win.)

      1. Jennifer*

        Seconding this kind of experience. I think I’m glad my office is so cheap we only get a 2 hour lunch these days. And yeah, singles anywhere get the boot because you don’t come in a pair. I usually try to hide in the way back or on the edge to avoid that shit, but sometimes it still happens.

        I don’t get why the hell spouses and SO’s want to go to a party with a bunch of strangers anyway, how boring.

      2. Ad Astra*

        Gross. I’m genuinely surprised there weren’t more employees who chose not to bring a guest. My husband really doesn’t care for large gatherings (he’s much better with small groups) and I’m not a huge fan of playing hostess for a guest who doesn’t know a soul at the event.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Yeah, that’s pretty effed up, and how can you prove it? People call my partner “your husband” all the time– we’re not married, but no one would blink if I said we were. Well, my co-workers know and I work in a small company, but in a larger group?

    4. CheeryO*

      Ew, I would make some noise about that one. It should definitely be one guest per person or no guests at all.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Agreed.
        I hated going to the company party at Exjob because I never had anyone to bring (even when I was dating someone, we were 1200 miles apart), and I always ended up sitting at the bosses’ table. x_x

  149. CAA*

    It’s performance review time here. I’m working on my own self-review today, then I have 20 employee reviews to write.

    I keep hearing (from HR mostly) that this is important to employees, and they want annual perf reviews. But do they? I don’t. I’ve always assumed I’m just the odd one out on this. But am I? Does everyone else really like this type of feedback.

    (I know what my manager thinks of my work. I know that my employees know what I think of their work. I get and give tons of informal, and occasionally more formal, feedback throughout the year, so this is not their one and only chance to talk, nor is it the only way to get a raise or bonus.)

    2. Not Karen*

      I completely agree with you. I think it’s a frustrating waste of time to rehash everything I did in the last year. I know what I did because I did it. My manager should know what I did because as my manager, they should have seen the results along the way.

      Also, I really struggle with it because a) I have a terrible memory and b) I struggle with praising myself.

    3. misspiggy*

      It feels like some protection against surprise layoffs to have your achievements and skills recognised in writing for others to see. It’s important to know that your manager is willing to go on record about you, and that they don’t have any lurking concerns you weren’t aware of. Do it for your employees that lie awake at night terrified they’re not good enough!

      1. CAA*

        Oh I will definitely do them, I always do. I’m just feeling sorry for myself because it’s a huge pile of work and wondering if anyone appreciates the amount of effort it takes to do them right.

    4. Ad Astra*

      At a lot of companies, a favorable review is the only way to get a raise. Beyond that, it’s nice to get a more holistic view of your strengths, weakness, and achievements since most informal feedback is in response to a specific event. And I really like talking about goals, which are usually part of the annual review process.

    5. AdAgencyChick*

      They’re really important…which is why it’s crazy that you have to do TWENTY of them at once.

      1. CAA*

        Yeah, nobody will ever claim we are top heavy with management here.

        For day-to-day work, these folks are on cross-functional scrum teams. I’m their functional manager, so I have all the developers across all the teams. For annual reviews, I do get a lot of input from the product owners and scrum masters as well as my own observations.

    6. Student*

      Is it possible that not all your departments operate the way yours does?

      My manager – the guy who promotes me and gives me pay raises or fires me – has no idea what I do at all. He doesn’t hear about any of my accomplishments or failures until annual reviews. I see him once or twice a year (assuming I don’t do anything incredibly disastrous – he’d hear all about it if I burned something down, I assume).

      I and most of my friends have jobs like this, where the manager is extremely uninvolved with our work. It can be really frustrating to argue for raises or promotions without the annual review and without any direct contact with your manager, so I’m glad companies have them. I still find the actual review extremely obnoxious, but I know there’s no other way I’d ever get a raise.

      1. CAA*

        Nope, managers here interact with all our scrum teams on a regular basis, so we all have a good idea of how our people are doing. I don’t assign tasks to individuals as it’s the responsibility of each team to divide the work among themselves, but I am in enough of their meetings to know how things are going and who’s doing what, and they come to me for help resolving technical problems, design questions, etc.

  150. Lindsay J*

    Ugh, just need to vent.

    I have a conditional job offer, but the background check portion is taking forever.

    Some of it I get; they’re required by federal regulations to have an extensive and thorough background history.

    However, this company contracts the background checks out. The criminal history took less than 24 hours. The employment history is taking weeks. And so far they have not been able to verify any of my jobs for the last three years. They provide the option of sending paystubs or W2s, or providing a verification letter from someone you know, and I’ve provided paystubs for everything they’ve asked about. I just don’t understand why they haven’t been able to verify any of my employers. The first two they asked I understood; one was a seasonal position where the store no longer exists, and the second was a hotel where they hired me directly but then had me apply to a temp agency for payroll purposes (idk it was weird). However, the other two companies are places I worked at for significant amounts of time, it wasn’t under the table or anything, I know that HR or the manager would have gotten back to them. One is a huge national corporation that I am pretty sure deals with 100s of these types of requests a week.

    There is no reason why they should be having any type of difficulty verifying my work history for these places.

    And I had to undergo a similar background check when I was hired at my last job less than a year ago and the internal HR for that company had no problems verifying my background then.

    And there doesn’t seem to be any way to go “hey, do you want all my paystubs for every job I’ve had in the last 10 years? Will that help?” I just have to wait for them to email me a new request every three days or so and then respond at that point.

    I just feel like if the contracted background check company isn’t going to do any of the legwork of, ya know, checking my background that it makes the whole arrangement kind of pointless.

    (And I’m just frustrated because I want this whole process to move faster because I want to give my notice at current job and start the new job already. It’s going to be more interesting work and a substantial pay increase.)

    1. voluptuousfire*

      The background check for my current job took about 2 1/2 weeks to finish. The last two roles I had (one through a temp agency, the other with a disastrously disorganized start up) took ages to get it done. With the first I had to give permission to them to verify I worked there. The second took their time because it took HR a week and half to actually get the message about verifying employment and the same amount of time to get back to the company.

  151. Anonsie*

    If an employee is being transferred to a new area and a modified version of the same position due to restructuring and this transition is happening right when their annual review needs to happen, it makes sense to have the review with their existing manager right?

    But then, the annual reviews here are when salaries for the upcoming year are set. Does it make sense in this situation, when job duties and some other things may all be changing a lot, to negotiate on salary and benefits with your new manager before/as you’re moving? Assuming the change would be one that would warrant a renegotiation of salary in the first place, I do not yet know if this would be the case. If so, when in the process would you even do that? Schedule a meeting with the manager to do it before the changes for the position go over to HR maybe?

  152. Lucina*

    I’m a bit ashamed of asking this, but I’d really like some help. After looking at jobs boards for months, I have finally found a posting for something in my field. The position is being advertised by an agency, and there aren’t many details about what the job will be, but it gives the right vibes, if this makes sense. So now the silly question: do I address my cover letter to the external recruiter (Dear Mickey? Dear Mr Mouse?) or to the dear hiring manager?

  153. Happy*

    I wrote two weeks ago how I was wondering about a wedding I would be invited to for my new boss even though I have been at my job for few month. Well, I got the save the date card so for all the people who thought I wouldn’t get invited well, I did. I still don’t know if I should get a gift, what do people think? Would you but a gift because you got invited to a wedding for someone you barley know? I don’t have a lot of money as my husband is out of a job. I am also having a lot of trouble as this place has too much work and not enough man power and I cannot leave when I need to even though I explicitly told them I need to leave early, anyone have any advise of what to do about that?

    1. Lillian McGee*

      I would give a gift if I was invited, even if I didn’t go, even if I didn’t know the couple very well (because I have the resources to do so) BUT if it was my boss, I probably would not give a gift unless I attended and even then I would not give my boss money… maybe something off a registry or handmade or consumable.
      However, I think it’s fine to decline the invitation and give nothing (for any event, ever)(life event does not equal cash grab!!!). Maybe just find a card and write something nice in it.

    2. Ad Astra*

      Well, you’re never obligated to get someone a wedding gift unless you’re invited to the shower. It’s customary to give a gift if you actually attend the wedding. If you’re not attending, it my be classy to send a gift, but you’re really not obligated to. Don’t stress yourself out about it.

    3. Cati*

      As others have said, I’d recommend RSVPing “No” and send a heartfelt congratulations card and call it a day. You are not required to attend or send a gift, especially because you don’t know them.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        This is what I would do. If pressed, you can always say you had other plans already that day. No one has to know if those plans are for sitting at home watching Netflix. :)

    4. Legalchef*

      I would get a nice desktop picture frame so she can put a wedding photo on her desk in the office. I don’t know where you are, but you can find pretty nice frames in a TJMaxx/Marshal’s/Homegoods for fairly cheap.

    5. Observer*

      Save the date is not an invitation. But, you will probably be invited, so you might as well plan. I like Miss Manners’ take on invitations: An invitation is not a royal summons. Send a nice card and have done.

  154. lfi*

    ugh. just ugh.
    earlier this week someone had asked me to update a number on something. coworker and i both looked at each other and said but it’s the same number! turns out… that 1 was really a 7.
    so i get told to slow down and pay more attention.
    then today, updating an analysis on something and i added in numbers. i thought that we’d like to see what we projected against what we are actually going to do.
    nope. again. only this time, it’s the quality of your work is lacking.

    two months in and wondering if i’m cut out for this.

    2. asteramella*

      That happened to me with my current job. The recruiter was very apologetic and asked me to please not think that the situation reflected the way the company normally operated.

      In hindsight, it was ABSOLUTELY reflective of the way my current workplace normally operates. :)

  157. Miles*

    So I graduated in May with an electrical engineering degree, and still don’t have work. What can I do to prevent this gap in my employment from getting worse? I went to a career fair (my school allows alumni in theirs) and the #1 question I was asked by HR people there was “what are you doing now?” I didn’t have a strong answer because I don’t know what I could be doing. Anybody have some advice?

    1. Matt*

      I assume you’re at least decent at math and science. Tutor kids. Flexible, looks good on a resume, and decent money.

      1. Miles*

        Never once did that occur to me even though I occasionally tutor my brother with his algebra. Thanks!

    2. AnotherFed*

      Volunteer. Pick something that can use skills related to your degree, whether it’s helping Habitat for Humanity with electrical work, doing computer repair/IT help for a good cause, tutoring/mentoring/TA’ing, or just google for organizations in your ares who need EE help.

    3. voluptuousfire*

      If you’re into coding, look into non-profits that focus on teaching coding to kids. Looks good on a resume and puts you in amongst people who work in tech and start ups. Networking made easy.

    4. LCL*

      This doesn’t answer your question, but here goes.
      Have you applied to any electric utilities yet? If not, you should. Do a browser search for APPA (American Public Power Association) their site is open to the public, and they have job listings.

  158. Aloe Vera*

    I have an employee who is not consistently performing. Some days he’s really on, and some days he’s really off. It would be easier for me to have a conversation with him if it was consistent. Any thoughts on how I can express my concerns if the issues are only sporadic? I can just imagine me saying “You need to do X more” and him responding “But I did a great job of that yesterday!”

    I’m new to management, so appreciate the advice!

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Name inconsistency as the issue. For example, say something like, “At times, your work is great, like X and Y. But other times, A and B happens. I’d like to see you sustain that higher level of performance all of the time, not just some of the time. What do you think is getting in the way of that?”

  159. AcidMeFlux*

    Gizmodo had a story this week about worst IT jobs ever. Several of them involved having to clear off porn from workers’ computers, and one person mentioned a big boss who had child porn (and ended up prosecuted and imprisoned.) I was wondering what the legal responsibility is for tech people who discover files like this. Is there any mandatory reporting law related to IT?

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m a bit confused as to how this is a job (“clear[ing] off porn from workers’ computers”).

      I work in IT, and I’m just not seeing the scenario. If an employee leaves the organization, we’ll make sure any critical work-related files are put onto a shared drive or some other kind of shared folder, and then completely wipe the computer and repurpose it. If the employee has already been ratted out on having porn on her/his computer, we’d presumably do the same. The employee would be either disciplined or fired… and, if the latter, we’d save the critical work-related files and then wipe the computer and repurpose it.

      Why would you have to clear out porn specifically and have to look at it?

      1. AnotherFed*

        Maybe if someone’s got to go through a whole bunch of files with non-descriptive titles to figure out what’s porn and what is work-related? I could totally see someone thinking they were clever and naming their porn “Teapot Test 1” or even going so far as to edit in some legitimate work-related things in the first portion of a video, for example.

      2. Miles*

        Another person is going to be using that computer & it would be pretty unprofessional to let them find porn on it, even accidentally.

  160. Regina 2*

    I actually had another performance review question, although I know it’s late.

    I feel like I am generally at a “Meets Expectations” level. I hear what other people are doing at other companies in my role, and they’re light years ahead of me. Some of it is being constricted by the tools/technology/systems we have here. But our company prides itself on being forward-thinking. I also know of other employees who are true rock starts — they are always thinking about work, always connecting dots between the market, competitors and our business, they’re great networkers, and have taken on a lot of extra projects. I fly under the radar and do my job. Now, I’m the only one who can do my job, but for my own standards, I’m par.

    My partner said I can’t have that attitude, because raises and promotions are tied to performance reviews, and that I should never low-ball myself because nobody cares about humility. In my mind, I’m not being humble, I’m being honest. But he thinks I’ll hurt myself, because my boss will just accept that I’m average, and I won’t go anywhere.

    What do you guys think? I don’t think I’m a bad employee, and do have several projects I’m proud of. I’m not trying to say I need to be on a PIP or anything like that. I just think I’m average. Do I admit that?

    For the record, I have been far prouder of my accomplishments in previous jobs. This job has been challenging, almost entirely because of the company structure, but that’s no excuse for a real rock star, which is why I wouldn’t rate myself highly.

    1. AnotherFed*

      I think you shouldn’t focus on comparing yourself to others, but on what your accomplishments are, what impact those accomplishments have had, and how that ties to your job description/goals/overall criteria for assessment. You don’t have to be better or worse than people in other companies, you have to be better than you were last year and on track with the things you said you were going to accomplish this year.

    2. NicoleK*

      I have the same problem as you. I’m very honest in my self assessments because I’m really tough on myself. Unfortunately, this led to be being overlooked by managers for promotion consideration. And I know that this attitude has led to me not applying for positions unless it’s an 80% match of my skills and abilities. So this has major impact on my career. So I completely agree with your partner.

      Highlight the projects you’re proud of and continue working on skills that needs improvement.

  161. ANONMH*

    Going anon for this, but my avatar should make me easily recognizable, just don’t want to be found via name search. Anyway…

    So last week, my boss told us that he would be sitting in on a particular task with patients and asking questions of them. This particular task is part of the job of mental health workers and can only be done by those with licenses. He has no degree and no license. I told him he could not sit in on that task and could not ask questions because the law prohibits it. He got all snarky and tried to shut me down. I tried once more later on and again, he shut me down telling me he was going to do it.

    So finally, I sought help from my mentor (a person you’re required to meet with weekly as part of the licensing requirements of this profession). She consulted an attorney who works in malpractice for the profession and that attorney unequivocally stated NO WAY can he sit in on or participate in the task at hand because he’s not licensed.

    On Monday, he plans to sit in on this task when I do it. Can’t wait to tell him NOPE, law doesn’t allow that. It’s amazing to me how defensive and ugly this guy gets when he thinks his authority is being questioned. I know he’s going to loathe the fact that he doesn’t have any authority on this. MU HA HA HA ;)

    1. Mimmy*

      I’m surprised he’s allowed to be the boss without the proper credentials! Please let us know what happens. I have a degree in a similar field, and those things are taken seriously by the licensing body.

      1. ANONMH*

        It is shocking that this guy is in charge without any credentials. That is one of many, many pieces of WTFuckery that happens at that place. I’m job hunting hard these days.

        1. Sunshine Brite*

          That’s how it was in my first job. Really uncomfortable although we weren’t doing anything specifically limited legally like you.

    2. Lizzie*

      Oh, sweet lord. People who do this as managers in my field make me want to shake people by the shoulders. No, you may NOT sit in on a victim interview, and if you try, I may physically throw you, Managerial Entity #37.

      Out of curiosity: LCSW or LMHC?

      1. ANONMH*

        LPC. Currently intern status while I wait for my paperwork to wind its way through the process for full LPC status. I finished my intern hours already, now just the wait…

        1. Sunshine Brite*

          Holy ethical dilemma Batman. Hold your ground and if he pushes back, I’d reschedule with the client for the soonest possible slot and bring in boss’s supervisor. Even if rescheduling causes a nightmare, that’s better than moving forward with an unethical task it sounds like.

          If you’re still technically intern, are you still tied to a professional program? I know my professors/field supervisors would’ve gone to bat for such a violation and bring in the sort of power that’s sometimes needed to address stuff like this. I know a few that would still have my back if I came across something like this now that I’m independently practicing as part of their commitment to social justice.

          1. Anonmh*

            I’m no longer in a degree program, in fact I’m awaiting full licensure just need the paperwork to go through. This is a situation where my mentor will step in as needed and I will contact boss’s boss as needed.

    3. Observer*

      I’d suggest you make sure your mentor is available on Monday, and on speed dial on your phone, so you can call her in the likely case that your boss tries to over-ride you anyway. Based on what you have said so far, I would not be surprised if he tried to tell you that YOU can’t tell HIM what the law is. On the other hand, your mentor is in a different position – and could make some real trouble for him if he tries to push ahead.

      1. ANONMH*

        Yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he tried to tell me I can’t tell him what the law is. However, that’s a little hard for him to do considering that not only do I have a master’s degree in the mental health field I work in, I was a practicing attorney for several years prior to getting the degree and switching careers. So it’s a little hard for him to argue that I don’t know the law :)

        Whatever happens, there is no way I’m backing down on this. He has nothing to lose seeing as he has no credentials. I have everything to lose and no way am I going down that road for this a$$hat or for anyone actually.

        1. Observer*

          He can’t tell you that yo don’t know the law – although he might try that anyway. But, I’m sure he could easily tell you that you don’t get to dictate to him. Which doesn’t change anything, of course.

          The thing is that if your mentor gets on the phone with him she could make a threat that could affect his business. If she tells him that she won’t provide any further oversight for his employees / interns that’s a real issue for him. Of course, he personally wouldn’t care, but he has to know that he can’t operate without the required oversight.

  162. Goliath Gary Willikers*

    A student found my profile on OKCupid and messaged me, and now I’m feeling weirded out and questioning my presence on a dating site.

    To be clear: I’m an academic librarian, technically faculty, but not a teacher or professor. I still spend a lot of time teaching instruction sessions in the library. And this guy found me the very night I taught his class, and shared his thoughts on my teaching with me. I don’t have anything on my OKC profile I desperately want to keep hidden (I don’t care who knows I’m queer), but this whole thing has me second guessing being public with my picture on a dating site, and unsure of where to set boundaries around privacy in my role. This is my first real library job, and I just started last month. I know teachers have to be very protective of their social media footprint, but what about people in quasi-educator roles like mine? Has anyone else struggled with this question?

    (FWIW, despite this being an undergraduate class, the student is older than I am.)

    1. Aloe Vera*

      I think your presence on OKC is perfectly appropriate. It’s seems the same as if you went to a bar and the student hit on you there. How would you handle that? Just because you’re in education doesn’t mean you can’t date. As long as your profile is fairly PG, I wouldn’t worry.

      Now if you were on Tindr or a similar site, that might be a different story…

    2. overeducated and underemployed*

      I don’t think it’s wrong for you to have your picture up there at all, but I think someone contacting you right after you taught a class and telling you what he thought of your teaching (?!?!?!) calls for a straight up response of “it’s important to me to keep my work and personal lives separate in order to maintain professionalism in my job. Thanks for understanding, and good luck with your course.”

    3. Kerry (Like the County in Ireland)*

      He’s the one who is being inappropriate.

      It’s okay for you, as an adult, to want to date. It is inappropriate for him to search you out in an unrelated social media space and then essentially intimidate you by then referencing your professional activities. Totally different if he’d gotten matched with you and emailed you in a few weeks to say, “We were matched, and I’m a student at the college–want to grab coffee?” And mentioned in passing “Oh, you guest taught our class and I thought you were interesting–I was just thrilled OKCupid matched us up.”

      This is, as Dan Savage would say, an example of poor judgement on his part, and tread carefully.

  163. Gingerbread*

    I’m late to the game, but hopefully someone is still reading. I just started a new job today (yay!) and my first order of business is to implement a new task/project management software. I’ve been told that many people at the company are set in their ways (using a shared excel sheet to keep track of 150+ tasks), so it needs to be simple and intuitive. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    1. katamia*

      Congrats on the new job!

      Is this something that can be implemented in stages? If so, it might help if the first couple of stages are things that are similar to the current way to help people ease into it. Also, it might help to make sure that, to the extent such a thing is possible, the new system looks/feels like the old system rather than change for change’s sake (see the uproar over Microsoft’s ribbon menu back when Office 2007 came out for an example of something that, to a lot of people, felt like change for change’s sake rather than change with a good reason behind it).

      Keep an ear out for things that people don’t like about the current system, too–complaints you hear. Even people who are set in their ways can have complaints. (Actually, maybe an anon survey about the current process/what people would like to see.) Then take the common complaints and make sure that it’s made clear how the new software/process will improve those problems.

      Provide training info in multiple forms whenever possible–written out, with screenshots, tutorial videos, and in-person training if that makes sense for your office.

    2. NicoleK*

      If you’re new to the company, please really take the time to find out what your colleagues want and need. Solicit their feedback and value their input. Before her first day on the job, BEC coworker started pushing for a new database system. That was completely off putting as she didn’t know the organization, did not know people needed or wanted, and did not solicit input from the people that used the current system on a daily basis.

    4. Observer*

      Forget “intuitive”. If you try that you will blow yourself up, because a lot depends on the viewpoint of the user.

      Here is what I would recommend you look for
      * Easy to do things- any given task should take them minimum amount of work to perform.
      * Workflows that are logical enough to remember. There are a lot of things that people won’t figure out on their own, but once you show them, they will be able to remember, because it does flow.
      * Integrates with what they already use – for instance if they can use email to get tasks into the system, that’s nice and saves work.
      * Works in ways that are similar to what they use.In your case, and spreadsheet like interface might be very helpful, at least as ONE way of getting work entered.

      Also, start by spending some time finding out what people’s pain points are and what is on their wish list. Also, look at what other software is in use – it’s surprising how often that can be a platform you could extend. For instance, some document management systems have workflow add ons that might work for you.

  164. GOG11*

    My student worker is applying for jobs as she graduates in a few months. She asked me to fill out a reference form and it was easy enough…but I’m stuck on a question that asks what challenges or difficulties I think she might have in the role. For me, she’s worked part time and the nature of the work she does for me is very different from what she’d be doing in the job she applied for. I honestly can’t figure out what to say.

    Does it look insincere or conspicuous if I say I can’t think of anything that would be particularly challenging or difficult for her? Would it be inappropriate to talk with her and see what she might thinks she might find challenging or difficult? The rest of the form was easy to complete – it was very easy to talk about her strengths, but this question’s got me stumped.

  165. Anonymous Today*

    So, I work in a call center that essentially serves as an out-of-office receptionist service for multiple businesses of varying sizes.

    One of these is a rental property manager in a major city who is, without a doubt, a slum lord. His tenants call on a daily basis with issues ranging from lack of heat/hot water to actual sewage leaking into their basements. (Yes, really.) This guy cannot be contacted directly by his tenants; our agents have to take a message to be emailed to him and he never, ever responds. The number that routes to us is always set to ring over to us.

    I have no idea how to get through one more day of listening to a tenant cry because she can’t keep her kids warm in their house. We’re not allowed to say or do anything off-script. The money is good for answering phones and I can’t find anything that pays the same or better in town; making less would mean I couldn’t make rent, and moving’s not an option. I’ve complained to my supervisors about the ethics of keeping the account but they obviously don’t care what a sentient answering machine has to say about it. I actively wish I could just not wake up in the mornings to go in and deal with this.

    How do you get through situations like this?

    1. afiendishthingy*

      “The money is good for answering phones and I can’t find anything that pays the same or better in town; making less would mean I couldn’t make rent, and moving’s not an option.”

      Some part of this has to change, because from what you’ve said, you cannot stay at this job. Good luck.

    2. Can't Think Of A More Clever Anon Name Today*

      Wow that’s difficult. The first thing I personally would do (or want to) is figure out who to report him to in his location. I personally couldn’t sit with that weighing on me without feeling like I did something. However, that doesn’t fix the problem of still having to filter these calls and not being able to leave your job and feeling demoralized and I honestly wish I had some advice here, but I do not.

      Continue to do a good job at work, and start looking looking looking for something new. At some point something will pan out and you will have the work experience and possible references for your resume in the future. Best of luck!

  166. Odge*

    Folks in the northern hemisphere – how are you feeling about the time change? This is my first time working full-time in the winter, and I was really enjoying stopping along my countryside commute to take walks and explore after work. So I’m feeling pretty thrown and upset what with spending most of the daylight time at work. I’ve been trying to get up earlier, though, and that seems to help.

    1. Can't Think Of A More Clever Anon Name Today*

      Always very depressing time of year for me, especially when I was working outside of the home. It was very hard to get up while dark, head to work and leave and it be dark again, basically spending all the sunlight hours in work. Very difficult for me. I am thankfully working from home now and can balance out the time I spend getting to enjoy the day with the time I spend working and it helps immensely for me personally to keep my SAD in check. I know this is hard for most people, even those who aren’t severely affected by season change or struggle with mental health issues. It’s just BLAH!!!

      Good luck! Remember, it’s only for the season, and the longer days will back back again soon, but definitely getting up a little earlier, or getting a morning work out in, or maybe taking a lunch walk or break outside might help.

      Congrats on new job!!

    2. AnotherFed*

      It’s rougher this year for some reason – I am really missing daylight, too! I’m trying to get outside a little for a ‘lunch’ break, even if that’s 3PM. It’s helping some, and at least I’m no longer looking at the smokers with envy because they get to go outside a couple of times a day!

    3. schnapps*

      Go outside on your lunch break. Even if it’s gloomy and raining, there’s something like 25% more light outside than inside.

      And I hate the time change. The Pacific Northwest gets pretty gloomy during the winter.

      1. LCL*

        Definitely gloomy this year. And the daylight saving time/standard time is exactly backwards to when we need the extra light. We should be doing daylight saving time in the winter, so the light lasts for longer at the end of the day. We don’t need it in the summer, it would stay light until 8ish without it.

    4. Rebecca*

      This week was horrible for me. It was so nice and unseasonably warm outside here in PA, with temps in the 70’s, and I felt absolutely imprisoned all week. Of course, I get home after 5 PM, and it gets dark almost immediately now. Ugh. Sunday and Monday nights I fell asleep in my chair and woke up really late. I’ve been trying to turn on lights, do things in the evening, but it’s not the same. I do go outside during my lunch period and break times at work, but it doesn’t seem to be helping. I’m just commiserating, as I have no suggestions :(

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      I hate it. I’ve done a lot of research on the issue, and it has nothing to do with helping farmers, it doesn’t actually save energy, and it disrupts people’s lives unnecessarily.

      More importantly, it doesn’t actually save daylight at all!

      The way it is now, the sun sets at 9pm on the summer and 4pm in the winter. Without constantly switching, it’d be more like 8pm in the summer and 4pm in the winter… or 9pm in the summer and 5pm in the winter.

  167. Not Good At Anything*

    After reviewing the “What are you good at” AAM forum from yesterday, I found that I REALLY do not know what I am good at. I do not know what I am good at in the professional environment or the non-work environment.

    Throughout the days I went to school and did things at home. I only find out what I am bad at, but never what I am good at. I am also currently pursuing a career that I am not good at. I only pursue it because I wanted to have a career that have good job prospects.

    At work I always feel mediocre because I still had not grasp how the systems work even though I had been in my job for five months. I also find that I have trouble communicating with people when I tried to learn things from them or when I try to teach someone new things.

    I would really have no idea what to say if someone ask what am I good at.

    1. NicoleK*

      Here’s a couple of ways to think about this. What do people compliment you on? What do people admire about you? Do you notice if people tend to ask you questions about specific topics? What do people like about you?
      Hope that helps.

  168. frequentflyer*

    I know this is really late, but I hope I can clarify some things regarding salary negotiation because I need to consider an offer this weekend. I’ve never negotiated salary before (I have been working for over 5 years, changed jobs once, never negotiated), and I thought it would make sense to negotiate based on total annual compensation. However, I realised that the recruiter (both internal and external) and HR have different ideas from me about what constitutes total annual compensation. The package at my current job comprises monthly basic pay, plus X months’ variable bonus. I used (12+X) months of basic pay as “total annual compensation” and said I want 10% above that. On the other hand, they used 12 months of basic pay as “total annual compensation” and gave me 13% above that, so they claim they’re not shortchanging me, but they don’t have a history of giving such high variable bonuses, so I’m actually not getting such a great deal, because I’ll be making almost 2 months’ less in bonus. Their argument is that variable bonus is not something you can take for granted, because it’s variable. So my question is… is this the norm? If so, how do I structure my negotiation to get a better deal? Hope someone can help me out with this and thanks in advance!

    1. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      I don’t see a problem with your approach or theirs. It’s just different.

      I think it’s absolutely reasonable to consider the impact of losing variable bonus rates in your salary negotion. I however would focus on your performance record, and not your historical salary, for your argument. If it’s too low tell them no. Otherwise you will be unhappy.

  169. Dusty*

    White collar vs. Blue collar job hunting skills?

    My mom is in a very white collar job (when I was little I explained her importance in her job by saying, ‘my mom has a boss and he has a boss and that’s it.’) and has been giving me a lot of job hunting advice and skills now that I am older and she is changing jobs. However, I’ve been cautioned against listening to the job advice of my parents in general because they are older and when the searched for jobs the job market was very different. But I’ve also been cautioned that her advice is so very white collar and that listening to it while applying for different types of jobs could come off badly.

    So I want to know, are their job hunting skills that are specific to the type of job one is applying for? Is my mom’s advice likely to help a young person seeking to break into the same field and position she is currently it?

    1. AnotherFed*

      Your mom’s advice is probably pretty good for her own industry. From your description of her position, she’s probably going to have some involvement in hiring, at least as the hiring manager, so would not be telling you to do things she would find weird or outdated. The one caveat I’d see is if she’s very high up, she might be a long way from entry level hiring, which tends be both a little more forgiving of errors due to inexperience and little less personal, so you may want to make sure you’re specifically asking for the advice she’d give people looking for internships and first jobs, not what she’d expect when hiring a director-level candidate to work for her.

      1. Dusty*

        This is really nice to know. My mom is involved in hiring, though I don’t know how directly. She sent my college essay to the group of people who are more focused on hiring than she is and it was in general a cool set of interactions for me. What hiring she would be apart of definitely isn’t entry level, that’s for sure.

        So yeah, despite all the nay-sayers out there as well as the belief millennials shouldn’t listen to their baby boomer parents it’s really great to have my mom’s wisdom affirmed. I hope that all the skills she’s passing on to me and the mistakes she is preventing me from making will really wow my future employers.

        I am worried about it being less personal. I excel in more personal settings and some of her advice is doing things like hand writing a personalized thank you letter to everyone she interviews with or interacts with while she applies for each job. I’m not sure how that fits into applying for internships or anything like that.

  170. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

    I know it’s probably too late to get any advice, but here goes.

    I relocated to a new city about a year ago. At that time I was entertaining several offers and my preferred position ended up getting cancelled. I am considering reaching out to the HM of that position just to let her know I am in the area. The job I took isn’t panning out the way I thought it would, and should another position open up on her team I would interested to hear about it.

    Is it weird to reach out to her? Should I just follow the website? My fear is, since I”m not actively looking I would miss a role which is why I want to reach out to the HM directly. I had such a great interview experience and they all seemed truly sorry that the role got cancelled….

    Thoughts?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’d just follow the website instead of reaching. Reaching out now (with no position) will make it look more like you’re dissatisfied with your current position and looking for any escape, instead of being truly interested in their company. Definitely jump on any position that opens up, though!

  171. Feeling Fabulous*

    I gave notice on Monday! 2 weeks notice! I feel great about it! The icing on the cake is that my boss is out of town next week, so Friday (yesterday) was the last day I had to deal with her. I feel like I aced the exit interview, reminding her of problems I had brought up before, but keeping it light and NOT mentioning all the things I hate and that I think she is delusional about her future plans.

    Not sure what I am doing next, and I know that is considered a cardinal sin (quitting without a new job lined up) but it was SO PAST TIME. Sad to leave my co-workers, who vary from good people who seem potentially cool to good friends I hope to stay in touch with. Good luck to everyone else struggling with their job, I may regret this somewhere down the line but right now IT FEELS GREAT!!

    2. Ruffingit*

      I quit two jobs without another lined up. There are exceptions to the rule about not doing that and it seems your situation falls into the exception category. The feeling of knowing you will soon be out of hell is amazing. Enjoy having the weight of this job off your back!

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