open thread – August 5-6, 2016

by Alison Green on August 5, 2016

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

{ 1,471 comments }

{ 1,471 comments… read them below }

  1. One More Alison*

    In early/mid July, I met with someone to talk about potentially doing some freelance work for her organization. She loved my work (grant writing) and said she would be in touch in August about getting started on some projects. Obviously it’s only early August, but I’d really like to get in touch with them to figure out when/if they will need me. Is it a bad idea to reach out and ask if they will need my services this month? I know they have been very busy, but I really don’t want to fall through the cracks when this could be my first potential client!

    1. Anna No Mouse*

      I think it’s been long enough to reach out, as long as you do it in a “hey, I’m still interested in working together, and wanted to see if you are too” kind of way. Low pressure, just checking in.

    2. Hellanon*

      What I always used to do was say that I was working on my calendar for the next couple (months, weeks) and wanted to prioritize their needs, and wondered if they had a sense of what kind of time they’d need from me. It reminded my freelance clients that we’d talked while leaving them room to tell me they’d pushed my project down the list if they needed to – but a lot of times, I got the response I wanted, which was, “Yes, and our due date is thus-and-so – let’s talk.”

      1. Pineapple Incident*

        Yes! I think this is the way to do it- that you want to know if you need to make priority/set time aside to help them, this is your way of checking in.

    4. One More Alison*

      Thanks Guys! that wording was perfect, we’re grabbing coffee Monday to discuss :)

      1. LuvThePets*

        congratulations! Taking that first step is often the hardest. Hope it goes great for you!

  2. Folklorist*

    Jumping in early (har) for the ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST!!! That thing you don’t want to do? That thing you have a mental block against? Just effin’ do it! Then comment, because, you, positive reinforcement. And stuff. Good luck and happy doing!

    1. Folklorist*

      …*because, you know…
      Typing too fast. I’m going to go and write that fact-checking email now.

    2. UnCivilServant*

      I already put off procrastinating. Now is my time to say “I’ll get to it later” (It’s also my lunch break)

    4. Pineapple Incident*

      Breaking down legal jargon into terms people can understand for an FAQ-type resource. This is my least favorite section, because I’m going to keep having to refer back to the law itself just so I can understand the stupid thing in the first place.

    5. Microscope Jockey*

      I picked up the 9,000,000 tiny dropper bottles students left all over the lab. Now I can organize them the way I like them at my leisure…..or good off on the computer.

    6. Anonsydance*

      I did the attendance sheet for the guys in the plant! It changes every week because we seem to have a revolving door of temp workers (we’re in manufacturing) so we need to have a sheet of updated names and where they work each day. I usually wait until like 4, but it’s nice to get it done before lunch!

    7. straordinaria*

      My dissertation. It’s due the end of August and I’ve only done about half of it. Aaaargh. Back to work.

    8. Elizabeth West*

      Not exactly procrastinating, as I was reading this while eating breakfast, but I finished and then pasted sections into a report. :)

      Aaaaaand just as I completed typing that sentence, something else just came in!

    9. Jack the Treacle Eater*

      Strangely, being nagged in an anti-procrastination post makes me less want to get up and do something and more want to procrastinate…

    10. zora.dee*

      My boss is out of town all week, and all of my coworkers are out today, so I’m in the office alone.. so this whole day will be a procrastination day ;o)
      But I went ahead and finished a couple more background docs that I need to finish next week.

    11. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Made a phone call that I was dreading. It wasn’t a big deal — just doing a little negotiating with a client. It’s just the thing I was choosing to focus my anxiety on and therefore putting off.

      Love this post, every week. Thank you!

    12. Lazy*

      I need to sew for my Etsy shop. I already invested a few $100 into beautiful fabrics and supplies, but it’s just been sitting on my table giving me a guilt complex.

    13. BananaKarenina*

      Still applying for teaching positions for the fall – hopefully as my last year in the classroom. But the dread of having to relocate again, combined with fighting the triple enemies of anxiety, perfectionism, and cover letter writing burnout, have set out procrastination’s welcome mat.

      Here’s to plugging away. And, to put “find better friends who will actually help with the job process” on my to-do list.

    14. Finishing it tomorrow should be my family crest put we kept putting it off*

      Just finished writing my 2nd of 7 performance evaluations. Can I get through a 3rd before I leave today?

    16. Blue Anne*

      Calling up a client who I should have spoken to WEEKS ago about her declining credit card. Did it, she was very helpful and not at all annoyed, got everything sorted out!

    17. LordVetinariIsMySpiritAnimal*

      I made a GTD-style “open loops” list at work on Monday, complete with next actions for each one where possible – I have crossed off FOUR WHOLE PROJECTS as of today!

  3. TGIF*

    I have a not-so-typical ‘do I follow up again’ question, which I know the answer is usually ‘no’.

    There was a traveling children’s exhibit in my town (think museum meets circus with more emphasis on education). When I arrived with my young cousins and their parents for a family outing, there was a sign out front saying that if you were interested in employment, talk to the people at the registration booth. According to the sign, the job would be about a dozen weekends in a year in different locations around the USA, with the company providing airfare and hotel on top of your paycheck for the weekend. Curious to know more, I broke off from my family and went to the table where they bounced me around four different people until they finally found me a manager.

    He didn’t have much time to talk, just asked me some basic questions about where I lived, my degree, and what I was currently employed. He gave me his email to send him my resume and he’d get back in touch with me after the weekend’s exhibit. When I returned home that same night, I sent him my information right away. However, it’s now been two weeks since sending the info and I have received no response.

    I normally wouldn’t worry too much but now I’m a little paranoid that I wrote down his email wrong (it was very loud there though that seems unlikely) or that he wasn’t the right person to talk to at the exhibit. There’s no usual employment page on their website or even email list for the staff that I could verify, just a generic contact form and a very responsive Facebook page. I’m tempted to use the contact form or FB to ask if there is someone I can speak with, rather than asking for that guy directly again. I normally wouldn’t, I know you’re not supposed to reach out multiple times but because I’m not even certain I was talking to the right person at the exhibit, I’m worried he forgot/ignored my email.

    I know this work wouldn’t lead to full time employment but it sounded interesting and fun, being able to travel a bit while helping out with an exhibit I really enjoyed, so I definitely want to speak more with someone about work. Should I follow up or continue to wait?

    1. Mela*

      I’m not sure you should follow-up at all, but if you do, definitely don’t do it through Facebook. The contact form might be a good option, but there’s a chance they’re still gathering resumes and are going to do a hiring blitz later.

      If you decide to follow up, I would definitely say, “I emailed Jim at jim@circus.com a couple of weeks ago and haven’t heard back. I wanted to reach out because I’m interested… And then go into cover letter mode a bit. I’m assuming you can’t attach a resume, but hopefully that’s enough to make sure you didn’t slip through the cracks while also not being too much in case it’s just a slower hiring process.

    2. TheCupcakeCounter*

      I would follow up with the email address you were given. Its been two weeks, they advertised, and you followed their directions. Maybe just a reminder of where saw the info and that you really are interested.

    3. BRR*

      I think you’re ok following up once and a general message to the FB page that you talked to someone about applying and wanted to know if there was somewhere specific they posted jobs or one person to send applications to is fine. But I can’t help think if the rule should be “is it ok to follow up” or “is there a need to follow up.'” I just have the usual thought of if they wanted to interview you they would have reached out. That the email would have likely bounced back if you didn’t have a correct email address.

  4. Mela*

    Folks who work in Monitoring & Evaluation or GIS, I’d appreciate your perspective! I’m in public health, but I’m interested in hearing about your work in any subject area.

    I’m in the process of choosing a grad program (yes, I really do need grad school to progress in my career) and I’m trying to decide if I’m interested in focusing on either of those fields. They both intrigue me in an abstract way, but I’d like to know more about the day to day work. Initially, I ruled these out because I didn’t want to be behind a desk, staring at a computer, but as I get older (and presumably, crankier) sitting on my butt is looking more appealing.

    In school, I was generally bored with algebra and statistics but did well. I’m thinking that if applied to projects that interest me, then the boredom won’t be an issue because I’m solving a problem I care about? I just signed up to audit a Coursera course on GIS basics. I know GIS requires some programming background–what areas should I explore on that front to see if I’m interested/can handle it? What else should I do to further explore and decide on a good path to pursue?

    1. Pwyll*

      So, take this with a huge grain of salt because it’s been 15 years: when I worked in market research I handled some GIS because I was the only one who could figure out the software. Our needs were super basic: taking survey data and plotting it in relation to a map via block group or zip code (we did a ton of dot density and thematic mapping). SQL was the most important thing, as segmenting the research data was all parsed in SQL queries. Our research was maintained in proprietary databases as well, so understanding the mechanics of a database are helpful as well. (We used Access back in the dark ages, but I’d be surprised if that is still used).

    2. Jennifer M.*

      I have no advice on grad programs, but I can say that I work in international development and we are always in need of good M&E people, including on health related projects. And it’s not just sitting at a desk all day – a big chunk of it is out in the field and the field could be an SBCC project in Tanzania or a Zika project in the Caribbean or a worldwide supply chain management project for health commodities. At the proposal stage it’s creating a project monitoring plan (PMP). During start-up is when a lot of the field work happens as the PMP is finalized and intermediate results and milestones are defined. It’s also a lot of government reporting and figuring out how to give them what they want when what they want has changed from the plan that they approved 18 months ago, but you only have a week to come up with the new reporting structure.

      1. Mela*

        This is super helpful, thank you! I am gravitating a bit towards M&E because I’ve already dabbled a little bit designing pre/post tests to evaluate our programming and I know I enjoy it. The short term field work is a huge plus, as I’m the type that loves work travel.

        If you don’t mind me picking your brain a bit more, what types of programs would be best for that path? I’m looking at MPH programs for the most part, but also Int’l Development Programs as well. I know there are M&E programs, but that seems almost t00 focused.

        Pretty much all MPH programs have 1-2 M&E courses, but what else should I look for besides those basic courses? I’m imagining I could do a capstone project as a M&E project from start to finish at a non-profit in the developing world. I’ve also been looking at M&E-specific internships, but they seem few and far between.

        1. M&E FTW*

          I also work in international development and M&E experts are in *high demand* right now. We always need people who know how to design and implement program evaluations and impact evaluations. There’s a lot of opportunity to do contract work traveling all over the world, or to get a job on an M&E-focused contract with a development implementer. Make sure you learn how to *design* evaluations, not just collect and crunch data.

          1. Em*

            Where are job openings about such things posted? I currently work in M&V in a niche domestic field (designing impact evaluations…PhD social scientist by training) and would love to transition back into international work (I did a lot of international work in grad school). I always had the impression that international development work was extremely hard to break into.

            1. Jennifer M.*

              I would suggest looking at Devex. I also recently had a lot of success with Indeed.com, but that was because I was pretty familiar with the players. A lot of companies list their open positions there. And then once you get a feel of who the players are, check their websites. They will have listings for full time, consultancies, and proposals (ie you name/CV is part of the proposal but there is no guarantee of actual work even if the company wins).

      2. TheAssistant*

        Wanted to second this! I work at a startup where M&E is a significant chunk of my job. Caveat, I don’t have a Master’s degree and I had never done something like this before, so it IS possible to get a job like mine without any experience/degree/etc., but everyone I meet in this weird and wonderful subfield seems to have advanced knowledge.

        That said, M&E is hugely useful. I don’t know if I would get a degree in it, but certainly exploring it in the course of a grad program is likely going to pay off. This is one of those fields where theory is really useful – the theory is the hardest part to learn on the fly – and I’d recommend getting some hands-on data collection experience while you’re at it. I don’t have any, and it is a bit difficult to write my indicator definitions without knowing the realities of the field where we’re collecting.

        Good luck! I’ve attached my email here if you want to chat privately. I’m in a subfield of international development.

          1. Mela*

            Maybe we can find each other in the AAM LinkedIn group? I can make a post or something like that. Both my first and last name are very unique, so I’m hesitating putting it on here.

    3. Pineapple Incident*

      Are you me?? I’m looking into the exact same things, I’m just already in my grad program. I didn’t do quite enough research when I picked a program- I do like the one I’m in, but I can only go online and the electives offerings are slim pickins on the quantitative side unless I go to campus for them, which will be difficult but I may be able to swing it. For reference, I live in Northern VA and my program is based in DC.

      From the job ads I’m reading pertaining to data analysis and GIS, SQL and R appear to be in high demand- some have advertised for Python as well. My biggest piece of advice would be to do thorough research on the kinds of courses your program(s) of interest offer to you before you pick a few for applications. Good luck!!

    4. RL*

      GIS basics doesn’t require a programming background. If you are using ArcGIS, you might learn a little bit about ModelBuilder, which is a very easy way to create a program because it doesn’t require typing anything.

      Any further GIS probably will require programming. I’ve only ever heard Python mentioned as that’s the language ArcGIS uses, but R and SQL aren’t uncommon skills either.

    5. oldfashionedlovesong*

      I work in public health M&E! Are you considering an MPH or something else? My comments can only speak to the MPH path as that’s what I did. The thing about M&E and GIS for public health is that they are skills in your toolbox, not necessarily the focus of an entire graduate program. I don’t actually think I’ve heard of a school of public health where you can concentrate in M&E, but there may be new programs I’m not aware of.

      My MPH is in Maternal and Child Health Epidemiology. The focus of the MPH is to teach you those foundational public health concepts and skills, and along the way you can build the toolbox skills by, say, taking a GIS course one semester, or doing an internship where you get to do a GIS project. But neither of those experiences at the grad school level are going to make you an expert in GIS. They will prepare you for applying to a public health job that asks for some GIS experience, and then you deepen your skills on the job. I myself learned only the very basics of program evaluation during my MPH, but that foundation was what I needed to interview well for my current job, and then I built my M&E skills on the job to the point where now I can reasonably apply to new jobs and call myself skilled in M&E.

      If you’re interested in these types of technical skills, I would recommend an MPH focus of Epidemiology (there’s also specialized programs like Environmental Epi, MCH Epi, etc. if you have a particular interest in those.) This is because Epi and eval often go together in public health jobs, and GIS is a very valuable tool for an epidemiologist. With the Epi track you will also get a better foundation in programs like SAS, Stata, and R than other tracks will. Someone in the Health Policy and Management track available at my grad school would get much less ROI on their GIS and statistical programming skills than someone in the Epi track.

      I feel like those thoughts were kind of all over the place but I’m happy to answer more questions if you have them!

      1. Mela*

        Not all over the place at all, thank you! I’ve been looking at lots of MPH programs. I would love to focus on global MCH, that’s the area of public health I’ve been working in already. The M&E programs I’m talking about aren’t in the US, and they’re not exclusive to public health. Because I’m pretty committed to public health at this point (undergrad degree + 4 years work experience), I’m hesitant to do a grad program that isn’t an MPH, since they’re so standard in the field.

        I completely agree with you that an Epi concentration would be the best path, but my question is how do I know Epi is for me? Right now, grad school in general is intimidating since I’ve been out of school for so long. On top of that, I’m not confident I would succeed on an Epi track as much as I would in a less math-heavy concentration. I’ve met a few MPH students who told me that the singular Epi course they had to take as a general requirement was the most painful thing in their academic life. Not sure how much stock I should put into that…

        1. oldfashionedlovesong*

          Global MCH is home to my heart :) Yes, the MPH is pretty standard now, and maybe because of that we’re seeing more and more dual-track programs, like combined MPH/MPP, or an MPH with a certificate in Global Health (could be a great option for you). You’re probably already familiar with SOPHAS but if not, that’s a great resource to narrow down which schools have the kind of programs you’re looking for.

          Yeah, it is pretty important to explore if Epi is right for you, especially if you’re not a numbers person and/or you’ve been out of school/away from the learning paradigm for awhile. The MPH program is so short that there’s not much room for a learning curve if you go the Epi track without being prepared for what it entails. I saw you’re auditing a GIS course – any chance you can audit an intro biostatistics course as well? If you visit edx dot org and search for “biostatistics”, there is a free online archived course called Health In Numbers from Harvard’s SPH that you might like to explore. Berkeley also has a lot of their biostats courses archived by department at webcast dot berkeley dot edu, both in the Public Health department and in the Statistics department. Under Public Health, I highly recommend the courses by Maureen Lahiff and Nicholas Jewell.

          1. Mela*

            Thanks so much! I’ll definitely check out a biostatistics course, that will definitely help me figure out if it’ll come flooding back or not…we’ll see! And I hadn’t heard of SOPHAS, that’s a really great resource. I’m looking more at EU programs (I have citizenship), but I do want to apply to a few US programs in case scholarships make the cost more reasonable.

        2. oldfashionedlovesong*

          I wrote a follow-up comment but I think it was put into moderation because I tried to include a link… so check back for that, and cross your fingers for me that it doesn’t appear three times because I think that’s how many times I clicked submit :P

        3. ElectricKatyland*

          Just hopping on to say that I have an MPH in a Social/Behavioral Concentration, with a Humanities undergrad degree, and I loved my Epi courses. Despite not having a math-heavy background, Epi was not painful in my experience, and I found the professors more than willing to work with students of all different backgrounds. You said you did well in previous math/stats classes – I would take that as a sign you’d rock Epi classes, too. Something else to consider is finding assistantships or intern opportunities with M&E in school – it will give you a chance to combine your coursework with your post-school interests and past experiences. Many of my MPH classmates landed jobs after school directly related to their assistantships or research in the program. Good luck!

          1. Mela*

            That’s really encouraging to hear! I do plan on having complementary internships, so it’s good to see that plan reinforced as a good one. Thanks!

          2. vpc*

            I *loved* my epi/biostats classes, but apparently I am more math-y than my classmates; many of them found the coursework very difficult. For reference, I hated/did miserably in calculus, but loved/did great in algebra, trig, and statistics. Apparently I like math problems that have answers written in numbers, not greek.

        4. TR*

          If you didn’t find statistics to be difficult, you shouldn’t have trouble with the math in an epidemiology MPH program. Some people just really have a hard time wrapping their heads around statistics, and they would find epidemiology painful. There are advanced epi methods that are pretty math-intense, but that does not need to be part of an MPH (or even PhD) in epidemiology.

          1. TR*

            Oh, something else that’s good about going the MPH in epidemiology route is that you can take it in so many directions when you graduate. Even if you focus on GIS or M&E in the program, you don’t need to be limited to that if you find it’s not the right fit. Public health careers are long and winding!

    6. Kaitlyn*

      I just finished my GIS course, and I’m not employed in the field yet, but I can tell you what kind of programming I had to do.
      There was actually a pretty heavy emphasis on database languages and OOP in the course I took at a college here in Canada. I learned SQL, VB.NET, Python (pretty important one), HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. JavaScript is essential if you want to start creating your own Google Maps apps, which actually ended up being my favorite part of the course.

    7. U of R grad*

      Anonymous for this one.

      I went to the University of Redlands, which has a great GIS program. I got to interact with the students on various occasions while in college, and they were all very professional and interesting people. The facilities are really neat, and I think a lot of their work centered around the nearby wilderness, with collaborations with faculty from various departments on campus (business, history, etc.).

      I’m NOT a GIS expert by any means, but I just wanted to throw that suggestion out there. The U of R is very generous with financial aid, if that’s a factor in your decision. :)

    8. themmases*

      I just completed an MS Epi in the spring and am starting a PhD in cancer epidemiology in the fall. I used GIS *extensively* for my thesis and it’s what I get paid to do now as an analyst for my advisor.

      If you are in public health and have any interest in GIS, learn it. It’s getting big and it’s not going away. However, not all programs are ready yet. Look at the course offerings in all the school’s divisions, because GIS could really fit anywhere. Look for schools that also have some kind of planning or policy school. It will affect the courses available to you, and will make it more likely that the public health faculty use GIS and are engaged in collaborations using spatial data.

      You won’t need stats or programming knowledge to start using a program like ArcMap at a basic level. A good intro course will teach you how to write the basic SQL queries you will probably need, data management and documentation practices, and that will be a good enough foundation. You can do a lot of amazing things with ArcGIS without knowing Python. There are already tools for most things you can think of, a Model Builder for linking them if you don’t want to code, and a healthy user community making add-ons. You can learn Python later if GIS becomes important to you.

      I saw you also asked about how to know whether epi is right for you. I chose it after working in research because I liked designing studies using observational data (medical records). I liked figuring out what we could prove with the data available to us, and how to put together different resources to make new information. I like puzzles and thinking abstractly. What I didn’t have and didn’t need: a lot of existing stats knowledge; a lot of existing programming knowledge. Even in epi, my intro courses were suitable for someone without previous coursework in stats or programming. Most programs told me the same thing when I inquired.

      Epidemiologists are definitely not statisticians! We still depend on real statisticians all the time. What we are is experts in research methods as applied to understanding human health. I would say research study design is our real skill that we own. Other than that, it’s *applied* statistics in areas where there is a well-accepted analytic approach to the problem; and any other technical skills that happen to be important in your chosen practice area. You have the freedom to seek topics that marry your technical strengths and your content-area interest.

      1. Mela*

        Wow, your last two paragraphs are incredibly helpful. For some reason I envisioned Epidemiology as crunching numbers all day long. Despite not struggling in math, I was so disinterested in number crunching that I wrote off more fields than I apparently should have!

        1. vpc*

          Epi is way more investigational than number crunching! Unless you’re a field epi investigating outbreaks. But even that, the number crunching is more often a way to prove something that you know anecdotally to be true from your conversations with people in the community (so you set up a research study to test the assumption).

    9. wet gremlin*

      The programming requirement really depends on how you’re going to be using GIS. Unless you’re developing applications, no code skills are necessary. The query tools in the major GIS programs use SQL statements, but also typically are constructed to walk you through creating the query, as long you have the basics of logic down. Python is useful in automating some tedious data management tasks for GIS, but it’s far from necessary. I’m still trying to get into R, so I can’t comment much there.

      I wholeheartedly agree with the poster above who said this should be a tool in your toolbox, not an entire direction of focus. Take it from someone who has their concentration in GIS and wishes every day she did it as an adjunct to something else.

      1. Mela*

        That’s really interesting to hear, as I usually never hear regret from someone who’s taken a science/math direction. What would you have chosen to do instead? Either from available concentrations at your program or any concentration anywhere?

    10. S*

      I would say if you’re looking to stay in public health and gain some GIS skills then you might want to look into a GIS certificate program rather than a masters. But if you’re interested in switching fields and becoming a GIS professional (not just a basic user) then a masters would be the way to go. GIS is such a broad field ranging from a basic user drawing lines in ArcMap to advanced data analysis, database/server management, web map development. SQL, python, and JavaScript are good to have some knowledge of. Also, being knowledgeable of some open sources like quantumGIS or grass can be beneficial in organizationa that don’t have much money to spend on GIS.

      1. Mela*

        A GIS certificate sounds like a great balance. I’d probably consider it post-MPH, if I have the inclination for more schooling at some point. Any recommendations on cert programs? Also great point about open source software, that can be really valuable down the line.

    11. vpc*

      I will say that M&E is in high demand in public health, and most of the grad programs I’ve seen require at least one or two M&E classes. My MPH is in “Health Promotion, Education, and Behavior”, which is a fairly academic way of saying “program planning and implementation / management”. I took a GIS class through the School of Geography, and it was probably the most practical of the classes I took in grad school. I also concentrated my electives in epidemiology. What I don’t do, and haven’t done since I finished my thesis work, is any actual epidemiology / statistics / GIS mapping.

      What my epi and GIS courses allowed me to do, as a public health program manager, is know the capabilities of my statisticians and geographers so that I can ask the right questions. Those courses also taught me how to interpret the results those specialists provide me, so that I can make informed decisions about program direction.

      In other words: do it all!! Look for a solid degree that will give you the credentials to run a program start to finish: objectives, proposals, monitoring performance, evaluating outcomes. Make sure you learn enough about specialties while you’re at it that you know when you’re in over your head and what kind of expert you need to hire.

  5. Asking for a friend...*

    Job seeking in the EU

    My friend is American and she married her German partner to be able to move to the EU to be with him. He’s German and working in Switzerland, so she’s been applying for jobs in those two countries. She’s looking for tweaks she can make so that she decreases the risk of being rejected as someone seeking a visa sponsorship.

    I suggested a line in her cover letter stating she’s planning to move to join family and that she has full working rights. I also suggested she use her husband’s address in Switzerland on her CV, but he said she couldn’t do that as it wasn’t true. (Any feedback on that? Both she and I are really skeptical)

    She was thinking about “adding” his German last name for the German applications, but she never legally changed her name and doesn’t want to be called by his last name, so I suggested that she skip that one. Anything else she can do to assure employers that she has full working rights and won’t need sponsorship? She speaks intermediate German and fluent French, so I can’t see anything else that she can do other than quitting her job here in the US and leaving without a new job lined up. I’m thinking her profile or summary at the top needs to be really on point, but I’m not sure what exactly it should look like.

    1. Gaia*

      For me I would want to see right away that she isn’t seeking sponsorship. So perhaps right at the top of the documents make a mention of it?

      1. The Friend*

        What specific wording would you suggest? Say she has a 3 line summary/profile. Should the visa line be first or last?

        1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

          I moved to the UK with a Swedish partner and I note “I am authorised to work in the UK for any employer and do not require sponsorship” under my name and address details in my header. You could also put it in black italics possibly under the summary.

          I seem to remember reading somewhere that German CVs tend to have a lot of personal information on them and like to have a photograph too! Is her format correct?

          1. Schmitt (in Germany)*

            It’s pretty ridiculous but yes, almost all resumes are sent with photos. For what it’s worth I got my first two jobs with an American-style resume, the novelty of having an American apply clearly outweighed the lack of photo!

            I reluctantly switched to with-photo for my last job search because I was planning to apply for government jobs which are a bit more stodgy. I didn’t add any other personal information – but I’ve seen resumes with religion, # of kids, parents’ professions, siblings’ professions….

      2. Mander*

        It’s obvious if you look at my CV that I am an immigrant so I point out explicitly that I am now a British citizen. I used to put that information in my cover letter but now it’s at the top of my CV under my name (just “Dual citizen: UK and USA”).

        It hasn’t been an issue recently but in the past when I applied for jobs, even though I explained in the cover letter that I had leave to remain and didn’t need sponsorship, people expressed a worry that I wasn’t legally allowed to work for them. So I decided to err on the side of blindingly obvious.

        I think I’d listen to what the husband says about the address, because he has better insight into the culture there. But I’d also explain in the letter that she is moving to XZY address as of this date.

    2. Triceratops*

      Using the Swiss address is the best way to go. What makes it feel “not true” to her? That she hasn’t moved yet? If she can receive mail there, I think it’s fine.

      1. The Friend*

        She and I both think it’s perfectly fine to use the address. It’s the husband that thinks it’s a false declaration, and we’re both hesitant to argue that point because he’s the one who lives/works there and we’ve both never sought work in the country. So we’re taking his word for it but I don’t think we should. Any resources out there that can confirm using his address is ok?

        1. BRR*

          This would be ok in the US but I wonder if it’s different in Europe. I would seek out more than one opinion on it.

          I would absolutely put in the cover letter that she’s moving soon and doesn’t need sponsorship. One sentence saying she’s relocating soon (date if possible) to join family and doesn’t need a visa sponsorship should suffice.

          1. Pineapple Incident*

            There’s a chance that if her hubster thinks using his address is disingenuous that it might come across to employers there that way as well- no telling how different job searching is there from the U.S.

            Not needing sponsorship would definitely be the sticking point she wants to highlight- just word it in such a way that emphasizes the move is imminent and soon.

            1. The Friend*

              That’s what I’m thinking. It would be one thing if she were unemployed and physically in the US and using the Swiss address, but she’s definitely working in the US, so it’s sort of obvious that she’s not living at the Swiss address. But I’m wondering if that’s overthinking it?

              1. Another Academic Librarian*

                Perhaps she could list both addresses? That way she could signify that she has concrete plans to move to and live in Switzerland without appearing disingenuous when hiring managers realize she is still working in the US.

              2. BRR*

                Also if she lists the Swiss address there might be an expectation of interviewing on short notice.

              3. bridget*

                This is totally within the US, but I am on the west coast and sometimes get applications from law students who are currently in school on the east coast, but want to show a local connection to my office. They often list two addresses, listing the east coast/school address as “Current Address” and the west coast address (usually I assume it’s their parents, but it could be a spouse) as their “Permanent Address.” This on the resume, combined with a line in the cover letter stating that she will be moving to switzerland to join her family soon (can she provide a precise date?) would do the trick for me.

        2. roisindubh211*

          She can put a “residing from XX 2016” date there, and note that she can receive post at the address.

        3. insert name here*

          I used to live in Switzerland. I wouldn’t necessarily use the address before living there, because in Switzerland there’s a fairly formal process of registering at an address and as part of the address’s formal “commune” (not like a hippie commune…it’s just the translation of the technical term for the community). It would arguably be a false declaration as her husband says.

          1. Mean Something*

            This is an important point! She doesn’t want to imply that she’s already registered. Your comment explains why the husband is reluctant to have her put the address.

          2. The Friend*

            Thank you! This is the cultural insight we were looking for. So does that mean it’s similar like putting your name on a lease, except it’s registered with the municipal government? Or is it something the apartment building coordinates in a more formal way?

            1. insert name here*

              It’s kind of like putting your name on a lease and then registering it with the municipal government, yes. I remember having to go to the commune office in person and declare myself and register. And then when I left the country, I had to formally register that too.

    3. Allison*

      It should definitely be in the cover letter or on the resume. I vet candidates from Canada and not needing all the visa paperwork completed by my company is a big plus.

      Does she plan on living in Switzerland with her husband? Is that the area she is job hunting? Then I would put the address down as her own.

      1. The Friend*

        What wording would you suggest as the most helpful on your end? She does plan on living with him and is applying to things nearby where he lives. She and I both think it’s perfectly fine to use the address. It’s the husband that thinks it’s a false declaration, and we’re both hesitant to argue that point because we’ve both never sought work in the country. So we’re taking his word for it but I’m not sure we should. Any resources out there that can confirm using his address is ok?

    4. Sawcebox*

      I was in a similar situation, and in addition to mentioning it in the cover letter, I wrote something to the effect of “legally eligible to work in Country” right up there with the vital statistics (phone number, address, etc.) on my CV. She might want to also mention the visa type, but I think that could be covered in the cover letter.

    5. Trout 'Waver*

      I hire technical folk in the US, but it’s super common for foreign applicants to explicitly state their visa status immediately below their name on their resumes. I’d put something like:

      Jane Doe
      Legal resident and authorized for work in the EU and Switzerland

      2. The Friend*

        But is she a legal permanent resident if she’s living and working elsewhere? Her marriage allows her to apply for a visa that will automatically get approved, but I don’t think she actually has that yet. Apparently it would take ~6 weeks to process? But this is info from the husband and I’m not sure where he’s getting that info from.

        1. Trout 'Waver*

          If she’s still living elsewhere, go with legal resident (relocating to Geneva, Swizterland September 2016), work visa pending, no sponsorship required. Keep in mind though that many jobs are hiring because they need someone now, not in 2 months. She should probably start working on the visa ASAP.

        3. Sawcebox*

          I have applied for spousal visas in two different EU countries and both times it took around six months (which was the maximum it could legally take at the time, as per EU regulations, if the European spouse was not a citizen of that particular EU country). Hopefully your friend’s husband knows better than I do about her particular situation (and I know Switzerland is special/not part of the EU :-)), but if they have never done this before, they may be in for a longer wait than they anticipated.

          As to using the Swiss address, it is my understanding that many European countries have a different attitude towards one’s official residence than we are used to in most English-speaking countries. I mean legally. In husband’s home country (not Switzerland or Germany, to be fair) you must file documents declaring that you are changing your legal residence every time you move, even if it’s across the street, and you can only have one legal residence at a time, be that in the country or abroad. These records are kept by local councils or counties or whatever. I don’t know why :-) So it doesn’t seem so odd to me that your friend’s husband is hesitant to let her use the Swiss address in a semi-official capacity such as a job application. But as I said, I have no personal experience living in Germany or in Switzerland.

          1. Worker Bee (Germany)*

            It is the same in Germany. It is used to dertemine some stuff. Like where to file tax returns (and how much you are able to deduct on your tax returns for commute) voting registration and so forth

    6. UK JAM*

      I’ve often seen CVs (resumes) that have a little section at the top with titles like visa status, languages, nationality and I find that helpful. It might also have something like “Location: Relocating to Switzerland Fall 2016” or something like that.

    7. Meeeeeeeee*

      I also think she can just use the Swiss address, and then also mention in her cover letter somehow the existence of the German husband.

      1. Liane*

        I think the husband would be covered by the line that she is moving to join family. Before saying she was joining her husband explicitly, she should check that is acceptable in Europe.

    8. Stellaaaaa*

      I don’t think it would be weird to write “I am a permanent EU resident/citizen and do not need visa sponsorship” in the cover letter. I would also put that on the resume in lieu of the “objective” section, right up top.

    9. Mander*

      It’s obvious if you look at my CV that I am an immigrant so I point out explicitly that I am now a British citizen. I used to put that information in my cover letter but now it’s at the top of my CV under my name (just “Dual citizen: UK and USA”).

      It hasn’t been an issue recently but in the past when I applied for jobs, even though I explained in the cover letter that I had leave to remain and didn’t need sponsorship, people expressed a worry that I wasn’t legally allowed to work for them. So I decided to err on the side of blindingly obvious.

      I think I’d listen to what the husband says about the address, because he has better insight into the culture there. But I’d also explain in the letter that she is moving to XZY address as of this date.

  6. Offensive Caller*

    I apologize in advance for the length of this.

    My husband is a tech support analyst and takes calls from internal employees who work face to face with clients. This week he had an offensive call that upset him and me when he told me about it.

    My husband got a call from this guy, who I will call Henry. Henry was immediately argumentative, cutting off my husband and asking his name, which he was just about to give. When Henry heard it he immediately groaned and asked if he speaks English. My husband has a very “non-American” name. Not that it matters, but he does speak English. He was born in the US and does not have an accent. You cannot hear him and think for a second that he doesn’t know how to speak English. So it was clear from the start that Henry was purposely being difficult.

    Henry goes on to ramble on about having talked with several other people from Guatemala who did not speak English and wasted his time. They do not have a call center in Guatemala. All of their locations are within the US and for the particular matter he was calling in for, he would have reached the same location where my husband works in the Northeast. While there are employees who speak other languages, there are none that don’t also speak clear English. But still, Henry harped on this for several minutes.

    This guy then went on to make sexist comments about his assistant, who he described as intoxicated at one point. He vey loudly asserted to her, while laughing, that yes my husband spoke English and that “after those Costa Rican people they finally sent me to the right place”. So first the last people he talked to were from Guatemala and now Costa Rica. Further proof this guy is an ass. And there were a few other gems I’m not remembering off the top of my head.

    Perhaps most oddly, Henry told my husband about how one of his kids (who happened to be in the room at the moment) had just found his pass from the Republican National Convention that he attended when Mitt Romney was running for President. Then loudly reminded his kid they were Republican, just like their whole family were Republicans.

    Now, I don’t want to turn this into a political debate so lets not go there. I am not at all saying that this is a description of all Republicans. I know many who do not behave this way. I’m only talking about this guy. But I mention this because considering the current political climate, with immigration outrage and deportation being one of the main talking points from some of the Republican side, in combination with all of the other remarks from Henry, it felt (to me anyway) like another way to shove his xenophobic views down my husband’s throat, who he clearly suspected was not American.

    Henry did not call into another center in another country and speak with anyone who couldn’t speak English before speaking with my husband. The only thing that could have prompted these comments was hearing anything other than an “American” name when my husband answered the phone.

    At this point I do want to mention that my husband is Hispanic. His father was born and raised in Honduras and then became a naturalized citizen of the US. He was in the US military and served this country for 35 years until the day he died. Obviously, even if that weren’t true, the way Henry behaved was offensive. But for this man to repeatedly imply that my husband and his family are not American, simply because of his name, just angers me so much.

    I really want him to bring this up to his managers. I think its important. Not only should no one be subjected to that at work but Henry is a face of this company and who knows what he is saying to clients. More than that though, I think it’s important we don’t stay quiet about these things. He should speak up, not just for himself and his family, not just for our young daughter who is also Hispanic (who looks white and will likely never be subjected to racism, but who will one day know she is indeed Hispanic), but for all minorities, particularly for those who cannot speak up for themselves. And because things like this will never change if we don’t.

    Additionally, my husband also looks white (not that Henry knew that). He is not subjected to racism every day the way he would be if his skin were darker. His employer probably doesn’t realize he is Hispanic either. It is sad to say but I think that gives him a bit more sway because people listen to white people more. Wrong as it is, it’s going to take white people raising the issue more before others will really start to listen and make changes.

    Admittedly, I am angry about this and about what is going on in our country right now. I don’t want to politicize my husbands job but at the same time I don’t think this is just politics. So I thought I would post this and see what you all think. Am I reaching and connecting dots that aren’t there simply because he mentioned the Republican aspect? Should my husband bring it up with his manager? If so, how? What is the best way to deal with this kind of inappropriate behavior in the workplace?

    1. Dawn*

      Sticking to the facts and leaving out the politics:

      Henry
      – Is essentially a co-worker of your husband, since they work for the same company
      – Asked your husband if he spoke English after hearing his foreign-sounding name
      – Made disparaging comments about other tech support people who did not speak English well
      – Made sexist remarks about his assistant to your husband (you didn’t elaborate what those were)

      I think that this is enough red flags for you husband to ask his boss about what to do at the very least. If Henry has a history of making racist or sexist comments to tech support when he calls in, it would be good to get notes put in his customer file so multiple incidents can be brought to Henry’s manager’s attention (or HR’s attention.)

      2. Offensive Caller*

        Thanks. This is smart to take the politics out of it. I know I am angry so I needed a different perspective.

      3. BRR*

        This is what I would do. No politics. I might bring it up to my manager and give her a quick opportunity to escalate it or if not then add in “I just wanted to let you know since I will be filing a formal complaint with HR.”

      5. Anonymous Educator*

        Yeah, if this is an “internal employee,” I would definitely report this to HR or at least, if not Henry’s supervisor, the husband’s own supervisor. Someone has to know about this. I don’t think this should even be acceptable for an outward client, but an internal employee? Hell, no!

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I think the best way to deal with this kind of inappropriate behavior is for each employee to feel empowered to politely say, “You cannot speak to me like this, and I am going to end this call now.” This is something your husband can bring up to his supervisor, and if a script for these types of situations does not already exist, they should work to develop one. Your husband should also feel empowered to escalate these kinds of calls to whoever is above him, and hopefully that person will say, “You cannot speak to my employees this way.”

    3. the.kat*

      What does your husband want to do and what outcome are you hoping for? Do you want Henry fired? Do you want Henry to apologize?

      Henry sounds like an ass. He also sounds like the kind of barnyard animal who isn’t going to change his stripes because someone that he talked to on the phone complained about him. If anything, getting punished for “speaking his mind” will make him more likely to blame your husband for being PC than to see what he’s saying is wrong. I can’t tell you that your husband shouldn’t say anything, but I think you (and he) should consider the possible outcomes and make sure you know what you want to happen before you go any further.

      1. Offensive Caller*

        I genuinely want my husband to make his own decision about this. He seems hesitant and I don’t want to push him. But he was very curious to see what the responses here would be as well and do think he is thinking about it.

        As far as ramifications for Henry, we both just wanted the behavior to stop. The calls are recorded and randomly reviewed by managers so there is room for them to raise this without it seeming like my husband is the one who brought it up.

        1. Artemesia*

          Because he works for the same company, I would bring it up and ask for the interaction to be reviewed by HR or his manager. If it were a customer it would be trickier — then he would need to be empowered by his manager to terminate abusive calls.

      2. designbot*

        To me the best outcome would be that if any other complaints came in about Henry (say from that assistant he’s harassing), that there would be documentation to support that Henry has a track record of this stuff.

      3. MashaKasha*

        This ass works face to face with clients. His conduct during that call was the height of unprofessionalism. If that’s how he talked to a colleague, he’s likely to do the same to a client. I’ve never reported anyone to the management in my 20+ year career, but I’d consider it in this case. I’d leave the consequences up to Henry’s manager. But Henry’s manager deserves to know one of his employees is a ticking, racist, sexist, belligerent bomb.

    4. Vanesa*

      I don’t really know what I would do in that situation – I am also American born Hispanic who is white and has an American sounding last name, so I don’t experience things like this very often – but I would be very upset if this happened to me.

      The only thing I can think of us it to maybe bring it up to his boss casually and see how his boss reacts or maybe if his manager can recommend anything.

      But this reminds me of a time I went to the bank with my mom when I was younger and after speaking to my mom for about two seconds the teller went and called another teller to speak to my mom in Spanish because “she couldn’t understand her”. My mom came to the US when she was 12 years old and speaks perfect English (with a slight accent). We were in so much shock we didn’t know what to say.

      1. Offensive Caller*

        Wow. I always think about what it must be like for children to see that happening to their parents. Makes me sad. My husband has both a non-american sounding first and last name. He gets this a lot more over the phone than in person.

      2. oldfashionedlovesong*

        The same thing happens to my parents and me all the time. My family is of South Asian descent but my parents have lived in the US for 30 years and are US citizens, and I was born here. My parents speak English perfectly – if anything, they have slight British accents because that’s how English was and is taught where they grew up. Maybe 50% of the time, when we are in a store or public place and my parents ask an employee something, the employee will turn to me and expect me to repeat what they said. Sometimes they indicate the request nonverbally, by ignoring my parents, other times they will say out loud, “What did he/she say?” and expect the conversation to continue with me while my parents stand there.

        When I was younger, I used to be swayed by this and actually would feel embarrassed by my parents. Now that I’m older and know better, and have experienced this kind of subtle racism on my own during university and grad school and in the work world, this infuriates me. So now I will say something like “My mom is the one who asked for help, not me” or “You can speak to her” and stand there silently.

        In ways both big and small, I think we all need to stand up for our parents or spouses or even strangers on the street when they are treated this way, because it’s not right, and the weight of these tiny things over a lifetime can make you internalize these messages.

        2. Vanesa*

          Yes I agree! I know many people who came to the US when they were older and have an accent when they speak English and people treat them like they are stupid! It very frustrating and hurtful to see. I grew up in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood so I do have a slight accent and tend to use words or phrases that aren’t exactly professional and I sometimes feel self-conscious about that, but it’s how I grew up speaking until I went to college actually. I know how to write proper English and business e-mails, but when I speak it sometimes doesn’t sound very professional.

          1. UnCivilServant*

            I would like to present another angle to the discussion.

            In my office we have one employee who is very good at what he does, but was a late immigrant. When I started, I literally could not understand a word he said. This led to at least one awkward moment when he’d come to my cube to discuss something and I was left unable to know how to respond because I couldn’t understand him. My supervisor thought I was being absurd when I brought up the difficulty I was having in a later one on one (the individual in question was not present) because he’d been there for years. Having been around this person for a while I no longer have the same problem. I’ve come to realize that the reason my supervisor didn’t believe me was that he (and everyone else) had grown accustomed to the speech patterns and accent of said co-worker.

            I wonder now what some of those earlier moments would look like to a third party, or worse, to a co-worker who had become accustomed to the accent/cadence. Would I be seen as the disrespectful party for the long delay in figuring out what had been said or the requests for him to repeat himself?

            1. The Cosmic Avenger*

              Let’s not conflate politely conveyed communication issues with accents with overt racism. Henry was a purposely, provocatively offensive and crude jerk to his coworker, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you reacted nothing like he did. Even if he had a valid communication issue, which I doubt after hearing his rantings and suppositions about people based on nothing but national origin, he presented a much, much bigger and more important workplace issue by overreacting and creating a hostile environment for minorities.

              1. UnCivilServant*

                I was weighing in on the side thread about general communications and was wondering things like “How many people are so accustomed to talking to person X that they don’t realize random strangers might actually not be able to understand them that well?”

                I don’t have any input of note on the Henry discussion.

                1. Offensive Caller*

                  I think its safe to assume that anyone with an accent is probably aware of the fact that not everyone will understand them. I work with a woman who lives in Italy and despite the fact that I lived there for a bit when I was in college and have a basic understanding of the language, I find her accent to be difficult to understand. When I’m having difficulty I just outright say “I’m sorry, I’m having difficulty understanding” and she will slow down for me a bit. Sometimes she will say words in Italian and I look them up and other times she asks me to slow down because I’m speaking too fast. My accent can be difficult for her two.

                  I think the point here is that you don’t treat someone as if they are the problem because they have an accent. You find a way to communicate together. If you let your coworker walk away thinking you understood something that you didn’t, that doesn’t help anyone.

                3. The Cosmic Avenger*

                  Ah, I agree that that’s a very valid point, that it’s not just the degree or strength of the accent, but whether the ear of the listener is attuned to that accent. For some reason I have a really bad time processing accents of any kind, even regional US accents. Once I recognize the accent pattern, it gets much better, but even then I sometimes get really stuck on a word. I’m much more of a visual-spatial learner, and learn much better when reading than I do when listening.

                4. Observer*

                  There are also appropriate ways to deal with it. Treating someone with an accent like they are stupid or somehow inferior the second you hear the accent is simply inexcusable. Turning to the child first thing instead of trying to work with the person is also as rude as it gets. People with accents KNOW that they have the accent. If you ask them to slow down, they generally get it.

                  A relative of mine who is from Canada went to get his green card. He came home and said that he was appalled at what he saw and heard. If you had an accent like his, which sounds “educated” the staff was reasonably polite. If you had a hispanic accent, they treated you like garbage. It was not a matter of non-understandable accents. If he, a total stranger who was either behind or to the side of the speakers (depending on the line they were in), could understand what they were saying, they were speaking clearly enough!

            2. Reba*

              As long as you were polite, kind, and made an effort, no.

              It sounds like you handled it professionally—unlike the other examples commenters are sharing here, where people exaggerated the difficulty of a perceived accent or overemphasized racial or national difference as an excuse to be rude and/or not do their work properly.

              For me, laughing together about accent-related misunderstandings has been the entryway to some friendships with people from other countries. (Not in a work setting though, I can understand how that might add stress to interactions.)

            3. Vanesa*

              I think it depends on your tone and how you talk to the person and others will notice that as well. As long as your polite and respectful there is nothing wrong with it.

              I think you have a point though that as we continue to speak to people who have an accent we get used to the way they speak it communication becomes easier.

            4. CM*

              I think it’s really about tone. If you act annoyed and say, “I can’t understand a word you’re saying,” bad. If you say, “I didn’t catch that, could you say it one more time, please?” I think it’s fine. Sometimes it’s legitimately hard for people to understand each other’s speech and that’s no big deal as long as everyone is patient about it. I wouldn’t worry about sounding disrespectful if your tone to your supervisor was more, “It’s hard for me to understand what Bob says, do you have any ideas for how I could deal with that?” and not “I can’t understand a word Bob says, how am I supposed to work with him??”

            5. Observer*

              Please, when this stuff happens to people who have been speaking English all their lives or since they are young teens, the problem is NOT the accent. When someone asks someone if they can speak English when they hear a non-american name, that’s not because there is an accent.

            6. Mander*

              Well, that’s a pretty different situation. It’s one thing to tell someone you don’t quite understand their accent and politely ask them to repeat or rephrase, and it’s quite another to make assumptions about their intelligence based on that accent.

              Hell, it took me years to be able to properly understand my husband, and he’s got a fairly generic accent from the south of England. It’s not even Cockney or Geordie or Somerset. I once had a manager from New Hampshire and my southwestern self could only understand a third of what she said. Living in south London I run into many people that I have a hard time understanding. But asking someone nicely to repeat themselves is different from getting huffy that they don’t speak with the same accent as you.

        3. Crylo Ren*

          I love this response, especially your last point. I have the same reaction when I see my parents get treated like they don’t belong here (even though they’ve been here 30+ years and my dad served in the US Navy), but I’ve never known how to be productive about my rage.

        4. nonegiven*

          We have to use captions for Game of Thrones because we can’t understand the accents without.

        5. TootsNYC*

          Maybe 50% of the time, when we are in a store or public place and my parents ask an employee something, the employee will turn to me and expect me to repeat what they said.

          I so very much want you to say to the store clerk, quizzically, “Don’t you speak English?”

          1. Mander*

            +100000000000

            Please, please do this. And post the interaction on YouTube. (Actually don’t really, I just want to see the look on someone’s face when you ask them.)

      3. CM*

        Ugh, similar things have happened to me with people hearing my name or seeing the color of my skin and saying, “I can’t deal with this, I need someone who speaks English.” (Me: born and raised in the US, product of NY public schools, no trace of a foreign accent.)

        Good thing we live in a post-racial society!

      4. designbot*

        I just want to mention that one way to think of this is that the person on the other end of the conversation has a particularly hard time with accents. I’m a bit like this, some people that others appear to understand just fine are completely incomprehensible to me (particularly people who speak quickly or run their words together a little). I know this is my problem not theirs, but the result is the same in that I wind up asking them to repeat themselves way too much. It’s actually really embarrassing for me as well as them, as I feel totally stupid in the moment! I’m not defending exaggerated actions like that bank teller, just putting it out there that some of us who can’t understand what others consider a slight accent know it’s us.

        1. designbot*

          and I should add: I’m sorry that my own poor understanding and that of anyone with a similar issue contributes to an overall climate where anyone feels unwelcome.

        2. Observer*

          One way you could help is to acknowledge it. If you say something like “I’m sorry, I have a bit of a problem hearing different accents” that shifts things A LOT.

        3. STX*

          Have you had a hearing test recently? My husband has a hard time with accents, because he is losing his hearing in the vocal range. For an accent he’s familiar with, his brain apparently fills in and guesses at words unconsciously. It’s not bad enough to require hearing aids yet, but people have been pretty accommodating when he says, “Sorry, I’m a bit deaf, can you repeat that a little slower?” That clarifies that his misunderstanding is his problem, not theirs.

    5. Mela*

      First, I completely agree with everything you’ve written. You’re right to be upset. However, this is your husband’s job, so he has to make the decision to speak up. If he’s unsure if it’s a valid concern, he can hear from me and I’m sure dozens of other commenters that it is indeed perfectly acceptable to raise this issue.

      I would talk to either HR or his manager about it. Start by talking about how he’s not sure how to handle an abusive internal call after the fact. He can describe what happened as dispassionately as possible. Being subjected to this kind of talk as a Hispanic person was inappropriate, to say the least, and it felt like harassment based on national origin. The company has a duty to protect workers from harassment like this, so hopefully that’s all that’s needed from him to get the ball rolling. Good luck and I hope all works out!

    6. The Cosmic Avenger*

      In a well-managed support/call center, your husband should have been trained in when it is OK to end a call. Many (crappy) call centers absolutely have a blanket prohibition on the CSR hanging up first, which is ridiculous. There should be a policy or proper training for handling difficult calls. My preferred technique is to ask them to please stop referring to X or even please keep the call confined to business, not personal issues, or you’ll have to end the call, then after 2-3 warnings like that, do it without saying anything more. The other (that I don’t like, but some managers might insist on) is to keep guiding them back, even by interrupting and saying “So, what was the technical issue that you called about?” or “So did you have a question for me about [support area]?”

      I wish him luck, and just remember, part of being a paid CSR is to be helpful and professional, even when you don’t want to do so. But taking abuse shouldn’t be part of the job description.

      1. Vanesa*

        I think it is very sad that people in customer service have to take so much abuse from customers. I am sure they get sick of it. I think for the most part they try to shrug it off, but sometimes it can be emotionally draining.

        1. Jennifer*

          My motto is “I am here to take abuse with a smile.” Because frankly, that is how it works.

        2. Mander*

          Honestly I think that the abuse I took in working as a CSR nearly 20 years ago made a major contribution to my lifelong depression issues.

    7. Observer*

      I haven’t read the comments yet (no time) so I suspect that some of what I am going to say is a repeat.

      I agree, your husband should let HR know.

      Stick to the facts. And stick to the RELEVANT facts – his stupid comments about being a Republican are totally not relevant. Calling his secretary drunk and other sexist comment – Relevant. Also, important because it show a pattern. Making an issue of your husband’s last name – Relevant. Complaining about the lack of competence and English fluency at non-existent call centers – Relevant. Etc.

      Your husband’s communication with HR should calm and stick to the issue(s) directly relevant to the business. No political or social commentary. It comes down to the fact that this person made racist comments to him and sexist comments about his assistant. This is a problem for your husband, and for the company because employees who have to work with or for him could really feel harassed by someone like this. And, since he’s customer facing, the chances of him saying something offensive to someone who “looks” like “one his own” but really isn’t is quite high. And, the customer may never tell the company, but WILL tell others. Not good for business.

      1. RVA Cat*

        Seconding all of this.
        I think HR should get involved, not only on your husband’s behalf, but they should also talk with Henry’s assistant and on-site co-workers. It sounds like she may be subjected to harassment on a daily basis and that Henry is creating toxic, bigoted environment for everyone within earshot. It sounds like Henry must be some kind of rainmaker who thinks the rules don’t apply to him because of his sales numbers, etc. – well, they do, because Henry is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

      2. Offensive Caller*

        I totally agree with you on the Republican comment not being relevant. I actually told him not to bring that up. They will listen to the call anyway. I just added it here to give a full picture of what my husband experienced.

        1. MashaKasha*

          Yes, I wanted to add that. That was irrelevant and unprofessional of Henry to randomly go there during a support call.

          I’ve been spoiled in that area, in the sense that, my last few jobs, there was/is a policy of not discussing politics and religion in the workplace. I’m now bewildered when someone does, like they just started spilling their guts about sex life to their officemates. I’m so used to these subjects never coming up at work.

    8. Kobayashi*

      If your husband has a good relationship with his supervisor, then if I were in his shoes, I’d bring this topic up with my supervisor. I’d let him or her know what happened and go from there. Obviously, if Henry is this adamant about proclaiming his views, it’s likely he’s saying these things to other people. If enough people offer similar complaints about him (or if someone reviews the recording), then hopefully some action will be taken against him — not to make him change his views, but to make him either change his conduct in the workplace or remove him from the workplace so others aren’t subjected to that type of environment.

      1. TootsNYC*

        If that supervisor is relatively decent, one approach might be to say, “I had an upsetting exchange yesterday, and I also think that person’s actions might be a problem for the comopany. I’m not sure what to do about it.” And wait for suggestions.

  7. Temporarily Anon*

    I have an interview next week for a job I’m really excited about. If all goes well, how much notice should I give? Here are my considerations:

    1) I work for a small business in an important role. I’d been planning to give one month of notice so that there would be time for a smooth transition.
    2) However, my boss has been known to cut short people’s notice periods. I’ve only seen him do this with people who were leaving on bad terms or leaving after a PIP, but I realized I’ve never seen a long-term employee leave on good terms, so I don’t know how he would react.
    3) To complicate matters, we have a major event coming up in the next couple of months. (Think hosting a conference.) I’m not directly involved, but it’s likely to be an all-hands-on-deck situation and a stressful time for my boss. I don’t think it’s fair for me to leave in the month before the event happens, but if the interview goes well and I get an offer quickly, should I try to get out before then? Even if it means a shorter notice period than I’d otherwise give?

    1. Dawn*

      #3 first: THIS IS NOT YOUR CONCERN ONCE YOU GET A NEW JOB.
      #1: 1 month is a courtesy, but ONLY give that notice if your new job is cool with it. Ask New Job for permission to give a month’s notice- when they ask you when you can start, say “I would like to give my Old Job a month’s notice if it’s possible for you, New Job, as a professional courtesy and to ensure a smooth transition.”
      #2: Be prepared to jump ship earlier than the end of your notice period when you give your notice.

      1. Pwyll*

        +1 to all of this. 2 weeks notice, but offer 1 month as a kindness and a courtesy only if it won’t hurt your offer with new job, and by being prepared to be let go earlier.

      2. ChrysantheMumsTheWord*

        I left a job after 10 years in the middle of our busiest season and only gave two week’s notice. I had almost expected them to (and mentally prepared myself that they might) ask me to stay for a third but it was never even questioned or brought up.

        I had a colleague that was there for 9 years and gave three weeks’ notice and ended up regretting it. When you know you are leaving as much as you try not to and want to help your team…your mentality changes. Don’t punish yourself by giving an unnecessary extended notice period.

      3. Artemesia*

        I would not give the transition a moment’s thought beyond doing your best in the time you have to facilitate it. Especially given the boss’s previous mistreatment of people giving notice, I would give the standard two weeks notice and indicate you will be glad to create documentation or discuss transition with whomever will be stepping up to cover your job while they search.

        It is not NOT your problem how they manage. I would make this decision to benefit yourself and not worry about giving them more than the legal entitlement, particularly if your new workplace wants you to start quickly or if you want a week off between jobs (perfectly reasonable thing to do)

        There is some reason to bend over backward for an employer who has gone the extra mile for employees; your employer has punished people who leave by cutting them short. Screw him. But calmly and professionally.

    2. TheCupcakeCounter*

      I feel like Alison will say “there is never a good time to leave” so if you base it on that you will never leave. You need to do what is best for you and your new employer. When negotiating your start date lay out that you would ideally like to give 4 weeks notice to OldJob because of reasons X, Y, and Z – do not mention guilt over leaving a small business- but would notify them immediately if it gets cut short for any reason.
      Best thing you can do is start documenting immediately so that when you do give notice you have a plan in place for the interim.

    3. J.B.*

      Give at least two week’s notice. If the timing happens to work exactly so that you could give three week’s notice and have it be useful for the event (and you WANT to do that) great. But don’t worry too much about it. I would not shorten your notice.

    4. Ella*

      If your boss is known to cut short notice periods, I would give notice only as far in advance as I was OK being terminated. For example, if it would negatively impact me to give a month of notice, and then be out of a job for a month, I wouldn’t give a whole month. I’d just give the standard two weeks.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        +1

        Your top priority is to look out for you. Your former co-workers and your former company come second. Not that you shouldn’t consider them, but you are first, definitely. And you should prepare for the worst-case scenario.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          I also think companies that want their employees to give long notice periods need to earn that by making sure their employees know that notice will never be cut short.

    5. Goats*

      You don’t need to create a headache for yourself before you actually have enough information to make the decision. You haven’t even had the interview yet, so you don’t even know a) whether you even want this job b) whether it will be offered to you c) what their hiring timeline is.

      Source: I applied and interviewed intensely over an 8 month period last year (30 applications, interviews for 15 different positions)… and at first I did the “what if” game/timeline planning for every position and it got mentally exhausting after like 3. Eventually I got an offer and left at the worst time of the year (mid financial audit. I was managing the audit.) It wasn’t ideal, but it worked out fine for everyone. I’m very happy in my new role. The audit got done. My old boss still likes me, and has an awesome new person in my old role.

    6. BRR*

      I’m going with at least two weeks but not more than four. It will also depend on when the new place wants you to start. Don’t feel guilty about the big event and do not schedule your leave period with it in mind.

      1. MillersSpring*

        Second this. I’m sure you are a critical member of the team and that you feel personally invested in the success of the upcoming event. BUT, most conscientious people feel the same, and two weeks is still a standard notice in most industries and situations. This is particularly true if your boss has a pattern of cutting short notice periods. Do NOT feel obligated to give one month’s notice. Your new employer is anxious for you to start and may even be annoyed if you feel more obligated to OldJob rather than NewJob. Your priority needs to be with NewJob.

    7. Moonsaults*

      Please adjust your priorities accordingly. If your boss has a history of having employees leave on bad terms, it’s a two sided thing. That’s your boss, the person who signs your paychecks right now but you are not indebted to them.

      I made a mistake being too closely connected with a former employer. I gave a month and it ended up being a nightmare leaving, I truly wish I had just given a standard 2 weeks and bounced into the greener pastures.

      You are going to a new job for a reason. That’s your new priority. Whereas you want to let the new employer know that you are loyal and respectful, therefore you must give notice, giving too long of notice can be a concern. A lot of places who are hiring can give a two week cushion for a start date but much more than that, you’re going to inconvenience them!

    8. Artemesia*

      I would not give the transition a moment’s thought beyond doing your best in the time you have to facilitate it. Especially given the boss’s previous mistreatment of people giving notice, I would give the standard two weeks notice and indicate you will be glad to create documentation or discuss transition with whomever will be stepping up to cover your job while they search.

      It is not NOT your problem how they manage. I would make this decision to benefit yourself and not worry about giving them more than the legal entitlement, particularly if your new workplace wants you to start quickly or if you want a week off between jobs (perfectly reasonable thing to do)

      There is some reason to bend over backward for an employer who has gone the extra mile for employees; your employer has punished people who leave by cutting them short. Screw him. But calmly and professionally.

    9. Gaara*

      If your boss cuts people’s notice periods short, you have no obligation to give him a long notice. That means two weeks and that’s it, in my book, unless you want to have time off between jobs.

      Frankly, I’d be tempted to give less than two weeks’ notice — at least if anyone has ever given notice and then been told to leave right away, or in less than two weeks. Notice is a professional courtesy, and if they don’t handle it professionally, you don’t owe them that courtesy.

  8. Another Anon Day*

    My little brother (22) died in a car crash on the 25th last month. Today’s my first day back in the office and it’s going okay so far, but I’m having trouble focusing and feeling motivated. My contracting agency and work-site folks have been understanding and supportive, but I think getting back to work will help me in terms of distraction, feeling some sense of normalcy, etc. Anyone been through this before? Suggestions for coping and staying focused?

    I was out for a total of eight business days (some unpaid), but anticipate the possibility of needing to take a day here or there when I’m having an especially rough day. What’s reasonable in that regard?

    1. sparklealways*

      I haven’t been there, but I just wanted to express my sympathies. I’m so sorry for your loss.

      I think whenever someone dies young or suddenly/unexpectedly you should be allowed to take as much time as you need, but I recognize that this isn’t the mentality of all employers. Do you have an EAP where you could seek some counseling to help you with this?

    2. Turanga Leela*

      I haven’t been there, but this happened to my close friend and coworker. Based on her experience, I’d say you’re absolutely right that it’s helpful to get back to work, and it’s normal to feel distracted. The only advice I have would be to (a) give yourself permission to take a short break if you need to (go get coffee, call your parents, whatever you need), and (b) have someone check your work for the next couple of weeks or months.

      I’m so sorry for your loss.

    3. fposte*

      I’m so sorry. I agree with the above suggestions. Is there anything that isn’t too detail-oriented that you’ve been meaning to get to for a while, like shred a pile of files or clean out some shelves and drawers, or even move computer files into the proper folders? Now might be a good time for that. It’s something that might be satisfying without being too mentally taxing.

    4. Ama*

      I am so sorry for your loss.

      Last year, two days after I went on a ten day vacation, my grandfather passed unexpectedly, and because of the timing of the funeral, there was no need for me to notify anyone at the office or ask for extra time off, so I didn’t. And I now wish I had told at least my boss what was going on, because the upshot of grieving during a vacation is that I really didn’t get a vacation in the usual sense (which I badly needed), and I know my work suffered for it and my boss/coworkers were probably confused why I returned from vacation and didn’t seem like I’d relaxed at all.

      Which is to say that if you do feel yourself struggling and need some more time or support, ask for it — even if you just need to ask for a work from home day or two when you’d like the distraction of work but can’t really deal with people. Unless you work for monsters, most people will understand that you are having a difficult time.

      1. EmmaLou*

        I am so sorry for your loss. I have lost my parents but not my little brother. So very hard. Go at your own pace. Be prepared for people to say incredibly stupid things while they are trying to help. Incredibly stupid. Shockingly so. My husband did lose his younger brother, but they are a less emotional family so a lot of his coping was working very hard. The first day he tried though, he just had to come back home. He was able to go back a couple of days later, but I was proud of him for knowing his limit and living it.

        When you find yourself forgetting for a few minutes that he’s gone and laughing, don’t kick yourself. Because you probably will. It’s part of the road. Or if you catch yourself whining about how the stupid store was out of Cherry Garcia! Go ahead.

        One of my coping things when I lost my dad was going to the movies. Going to. Not at home. That big screen with that surrounding noise let me step away from things for a bit and … it’s dark so no one could see if I had tears or not. I chose adventure movies and comedies. I certainly didn’t want a quiet drama.

        Again, I am so very sorry.

    5. AnAppleADay*

      I’m so sorry for the loss of your little brother. So young. Sending you internet hugs.

      Everyone grieves in their own way at their own pace. Be patient and gentle with yourself. There isn’t a norm in this situation. Allowing yourself to cry when you need to cry whether or not it’s convenient will help you grieve more thoroughly than constantly fight tears and stuffing your feelings. That said, sometimes people are able to “train” themselves to compartmentalized and let loose the tears at the end of the day at home. Maybe not right away but in a few weeks.

      Hopefully you have understanding and accommodating supervisor/management. Concentration at first is going to be difficult. I tackled my most difficult tasks when I was in a pocket or zone where I was able to focus. When my mind was straying, I’d do more physical oriented tasks like makes copies, scans or filing. Mistakes will happen so I often saved documents I completed to review the following day. It was easier to catch mistakes and correct them that way.

      If you find yourself reading the same lines in the same email not being able to comprehend what you are reading, take a break or do something that gets your body moving.

      When trying to “reset” the brain, I’ve been told the side to side movement of normal walking can be beneficial. (Where you swing your arms while you walk)

      Take care.

      1. Isben Takes Tea*

        Seconding all of this. There is no normal, and there’s no timeline of “I should be over this by now.” Allowing yourself to cry if you want to is important, as is reminding yourself that feelings come and go in waves. Taking frequent walks is really good advice.

        I’m so sorry.

    6. Pwyll*

      I’m so sorry anon. My thoughts will be with you today.

      When my brother was in his fatal car accident, I was out of it for a long time. Work absolutely helped as a distraction. I worked with a boss who was incredibly understanding (I got the call at work and he immediately told me to leave, to forget the projects I was leading, and not to look back until my family was sorted. Really fantastic.), so I spoke to him when I came back and let him know how it was affecting me, that I was looking forward to the distraction of working, but I might need some time here and there, and thanked him for understanding. They basically gave me some slack for a month or so when a few things fell through the cracks or when I needed to step away.

      I didn’t really take any additional time off in full day blocks, but once or twice I needed to leave early or come in early. I think the open communication with my boss was what made all of this okay, but that could be different depending on your boss or corporate structure.

    7. Buggy Crispino*

      I’m really very sorry for your loss. Everyone is different, and I think if you feel like you want the distraction of work, it’s perfectly fine for you to be there.

      My sister and I were very close and when she passed away I returned to work a week later. It was really hard for me, especially those first few days when everyone wanted to welcome me back and express their condolences in person. There were a few people that I was close to that I just had to say “I appreciate you so much, but I just can’t do this right now.” I think everyone pretty much understood.

      I had one coworker that I was not close to that told me a couple different times that he knew what I was going through – at the time I didn’t really comprehend what he was saying was that he wanted to help, wanted to listen, maybe even wanted to talk about his own sibling. I wish I had known then what he was getting at – I didn’t really have anyone to talk to and he probably could have been really good for me. Another coworker came over from another building on the lot every morning. The first morning he gave me a big hug and hung on for a minute while I regained control of my crying before letting go. And though physical contact like that isn’t usually a great thing at work, 8 years later I remember how much that meant to me and what a great guy he was for doing that.

      Some things I learned:
      Everyone else’s life goes on. This doesn’t mean they aren’t thinking about you or don’t care. Maybe they’re doing their day to day routine but every time they pass your desk their heart breaks a little and they want to console you but know they probably shouldn’t.

      Everyone kept asking me about my mom, my sister’s husband, my sister’s daughter and I felt like even my best friends weren’t asking about me. At the time I was angry about that. I felt like “you are MY friend, MY coworker, why aren’t you being MY support system?” I realize now that was their way of being my support system. So when people ask those indirect questions understand that they really ARE thinking of you, they just don’t know how to ask without possibly making you fall apart.

      It’s okay to go sit in your car and cry on your lunch break, or other times. I found I cried a lot as I was driving to work. Not the uncontrollable crying that made it dangerous to drive, but thats kind of the time I was the most alone.

      Find a support group (even online) – even if you don’t participate, reading what other people are thinking can help. If you’re interested find some books on adult sibling loss – one I liked was called “Letters to Sara”

      I’m kind of rambling now, and maybe I’ve gone way beyond what you’re asking, but I’m thinking of you and wishing you all the best as you deal with your pain and loss.

      1. Another Anon Day*

        This is all stuff I’ve actually been thinking about, so no rambling seen here. I’m an information junkie and have already learned that there is limited info on the loss of adult siblings. I’ll absolutely be looking into Letters to Sara. If you happen to know of any others, I’d love to hear of them. Thanks so much for your words, guidance, and kindness. It seems you’ve found some peace in the time that followed, and I hope to do the same.

    8. em2mb*

      I’m so sorry for your loss.

      I think your attitude is right about wanting to get back to work for no other reason than to maintain some sense of normalcy. You write that your colleagues have been understanding. Hopefully they will continue to be understanding if it takes you some time to get back up to your usual speed.

      One thing that’s helped me when I was grieving: priority lists. I knew I wasn’t working at 100 percent of what I was capable of, so I would try to put the tasks that were absolutely essential job duties on top and get those done when I was feeling up to it. I saved the more menial tasks for days I was really down and just wanted something mind-numbing to do.

    9. Emmie*

      I am very, very sorry for your loss. Your situation is amplified in degree compared to mine. I can speak to what I did when I ended a decades long relationship with a former finance. (Obviously not the same as the death of a little brother.) Those first months at work were really hard. I listened to motivational youtube videos like Joel Osteen (sorry if that’s too religious for you… there might be something else motivational you can listen too). I did not want questions about it because I would honestly start to cry, so I spoke to the office gossiper and asked her to spread a rumor for me! (No kidding! She comes in handy sometimes.) I asked her to tell people what happened, that I did not want to talk about it, and that any distractions were welcome. The last two parts were key. I only got a few questions about it from my boss and a few close coworkers. My boss asked me a question about the situation, and I actually started tearing up at work. I was super embarrassed, told him so, and I apologized and asked him to talk about something work related. It took some time to heal, and for it not to be on my mind every second of the day. You’ll get there. Give yourself permission to cry (or express your emotions.) I also went to counseling b/c there were some really difficult circumstances that I needed to work through. Work was a good distraction during this time. Again, I don’t mean to compare the death of your brother to ending an engagement. Perhaps some of these things might help you. Big virtual hugs.

      1. RF*

        The bit about the office gossip is really a good idea. When my mother died I told my boss and I asked my boss to a) tell everyone what happened and b) tell everyone I did not want to discuss it.

        It really helped to have everyone know what I needed and for the most part, my wishes were respected.

    10. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Very sorry for your loss. I lost my FIL suddenly last year and we were close so it was hard. The first few days back were really hard because in addition to “having to deal” a lot of people are going to ask you about how you are feeling or express their sympathy which brings it all back. Sometimes that is awesome but sometimes it can really suck.
      I worked one full day and the second day back someone said something and I could not stop crying so I went home. I did my version of therapy (made about 100 cupcakes) and talked to my mom and a neighbor who had recently lost her mother suddenly. I think the biggest thing that helped was just sitting on the couch with my husband and talking with him about how we felt and what the next step was. We have a great, funny picture of him on our fridge and so say good morning each day.
      You are allowed to be sad. You are allowed to miss him. You are allowed to have bad days. You are allowed to laugh and live and love. Don’t expect that you can compartmentalize and be 100% focused. Do your best and don’t be too hard on yourself (don’t be a slacker though). Sometimes work can be a nice distraction and help find balance again. Other times it is too hard for whatever reason. Keep communication open to your management team and when you have time do something your brother would have liked. My FIL’s birthday was this past Saturday and we went out for margaritas (lots and lot of margaritas…with really good tequila) because he loved Patron and this Mexican place near his house. We toasted and told stories and did exactly what he would have wanted to do for his birthday if he’d still been with us. We were poop-faced and happy with tears streaming down our faced at 4pm and got a lot of funny looks as there was about 15 of us drunk walking down the road.
      And spend a little extra time with your parents and other sibs (if you have them) – there is a lot of comfort there even if it seems hard at first.

    11. Another Anon Day*

      Thanks to everyone for the validation, support, and ideas. July, in a word, sucked. One family cat had to be put to sleep after a stroke on the 16th, we lost my brother on the 25th, and the second family cat died on the 27th while I was there. (And we were dealing with a flea infestation at my parents house and I had severe travel issues both to and from my hometown, five hundred miles away. ANYWAY–) On top of the normal stresses of life, things haven’t been easy. I’ll have to come back to these and read them again and figure out what will work best for me, but I really appreciate everyone’s input. Thank you so much.

      1. Windchime*

        You’ve gone through a really, really rough time. I have no advice for you, but please know that this internet stranger is thinking of you and I’m very sorry for all the loss you have suffered.

        1. M*

          My deepest condolences for your loss. You’ve had way too much thrown at you. Be gentle with yourself and do the things that feel comfortable and I hope work becomes a helpful distraction.

    13. Elizabeth West*

      *hug* I’m so sorry about your brother.

      I have no experience with this other than working after a giant breakup, but I think if you need to take breaks during the day, do so. Don’t feel like you have to power through like a robot. If you feel yourself getting overwhelmed, take a quick bathroom break, go get a glass of cold water (helps if you feel like crying), step outside for a sec or two, etc.

      As far as additional time, I’d see how it goes and maybe ask your manager about that.

    14. AMT 2*

      I’m sorry for your loss. I lost my sister when she was 16 (I was 18) – I was really relieved to get back to school and work to be able to think about anything else. I worked in a restaurant and rather than going to church functions (I was very involved in my church at the time) I’d go sit in a booth at work just to be around people but not have to talk to anyone about it. I don’t know how much I focused at work, at school I tended to sleep through half my classes and basically just checked out. It takes time, and its hard to say how much – I only had a month and a half of school before graduation, and by the end of the school year I was not as checked out. So no real suggestions, aside from try to only work on lower priority stuff that doesn’t require too much concentration – something you can do while being mentally checked out. After a week or two it will be easier to get back into the routine of working, at first it just feels so strange that everything is just continuing on the same as ever. It gets easier, and faster than you’d expect.

    15. aliascelli*

      You’ve gotten some great advice here, so I will just send you internet hugs and let you know I’ll be thinking of you!

    16. KimberlyR*

      I’m sorry to hear this :( I lost a brother when he was 22, but he was my older brother (I was 21.) I ended up quitting the job that I was working-I was a server and I wasn’t the best one there, and being distracted by my grief made it worse. I started working somewhere else and the busy times did help get me through the day. But there were those unexpected moments when it would just hit me again as if it had just happened. I gave myself permission to go cry somewhere, pull myself together, and get back to work.

      Be kind to yourself, allow yourself to grieve when you need to, and to push it from your mind and even live in denial a little bit when you need to. It still sneaks up on me 10 years later, but I more often remember the good memories and less often the circumstances around his death.

      If you want to talk about your brother, bring him up. Often people won’t talk about your lost loved one because they’re afraid to. But it can be therapeutic for us family members to talk about them.

      If you don’t want to talk about it, feel free to just say “Not right now, please” and move on-walk away, turn to your computer, whatever you need to do. No one will feel offended.

      Let yourself cancel plans when you need to, but make sure you keep some plans so you can get out of the house. I usually didn’t want to go anywhere or do anything for awhile, but I would often get distracted and sometimes even have a good time. Of course your grief will still be waiting for you on the other end, but sometimes a distraction is all you need for a few hours.

      Also, to answer your real question, your company will understand if you’re a bit off your game or if you need to take unexpected days off. I think having good documentation is a good idea so if you just need to take off a day, you can email anything you need to have done that day to a sympathetic coworker, and anything that can wait can still be there for you the next day.

      Grief counseling can sometimes help as well so if it sounds like your kind of thing, maybe you should look into that.

      Again, I am sorry for your loss and you have my deepest sympathies.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        +1 for this.

        My brother passed away a few years ago (at 23). I went back to work pretty quickly too, because I really needed the distraction. Feel free to excuse yourself as needed, talk about it – or not – as needed, and do more “mindless tasks” when days are hard.

        It may be too soon for you, but talking about him is really important. It was really hard for me for awhile but now it’s pretty comforting. I still include him when I talk about my family (I have X siblings…. not I have X-1 siblings). I always will.

        Some activities will be really hard for awhile – holidays are rough, but my family has gotten pretty good as acknowledging it, maybe a little bit of tears, and then moving onto good things. We also decorate his grave for most holidays each year, which was intimidating at first but is now something we really enjoy (Halloween involves climbing a fence to sneak into the graveyard and fly paper lanterns – which he would such a kick out of!).

        I am so very very sorry for your loss. I wish you and your family all the best, and will keep you in my thoughts, Anon.

        1. Another Anon Day*

          Thanks. I really needed to hear some of this (especially about still including him when you talk about family — I keep grappling with whether or not I’m still a sister… I recognize it’s irrational, but, there it is.). I am talking about him quite a bit, which I find helps. While I of course would never wish this on anyone and it’s awful at all, it’s comforting to know others have experienced the same and still thrive.

          2. KimberlyR*

            I’m a sister as well, and he was my only sibling so I understand that “Am I still a sister” question. Now that I have children, I also deal with the reality that my kids have never known and will never know their uncle. But we talk about him like he exists. My oldest knows about Uncle J and that he died a long time ago, and when my parents or I mention something like “Remember when J did some funny prank years ago? That was hilarious!”, she isn’t confused and knows who we’re talking about. So keeping your brother’s memory alive and talking about him helps remind you that he DID exist, you ARE his sister, and he is a beloved member of your family still. And that will help your friends and other well-meaning people know that they get to still talk about him. I can’t tell you how many funny or interesting stories I found out about my brother after he died, because I would still talk about him and people we knew would share the memory with me. I love knowing these things and you will too.

    17. Anxa*

      Sorry about this.

      I can’t give any insight about what’s reasonable; I’ve only had jobs that were pretty leniently on these things because all days off were unpaid anyway or jobs where that much time off would lead to termination.

      That said, while I’m sure that the main reason you’re feeling unmotivated at times is emotional, could some of it be because you took time off? I know that sometimes it can be hard to break back into your routine and mindset even without being distracted by something like this?

      Could productive procrastination help? Maybe focus on tasks that aren’t as mentally demanding. Added bonus if it’s the type of project that’s motivating on its own (for me, this is stuff like organizing my desk, goal setting, jamming on my planner, etc.) This great because not only can I check out a bit while I do it, but it also gets me a little more forward-thinking. It’s something I’ve done while distracted by loss and grief that seem to help.

    18. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Very sorry for your loss.

      Try to do tasks that don’t require much concentration if you have any, or alternate harder with easier tasks. Be easy on yourself.

    19. RF*

      I’m so sorry for your loss.

      What is your relationship with your boss. If it’s good, I would be as upfront as possible about your needs. If you think you might need a lighter load and additional back up, let him/her know. On the other hand, maybe a really intensive project will keep you focused on work and provide a much needed distraction from you grief.

      Mostly, I would suggest you be proactive in getting the support you need outside of work. I really wish I had gotten some grief counseling when my mother died. It definitely affected my work negatively and it took me a surprisingly long time to really bounce back to where I was. I wasn’t right for at least a year, and it mostly impacted my work more than my personal life. That’s probably not what you want to hear, but I strongly recommend you take care of your mental health now, rather than waiting.

      Again, I’m so sorry about your brother. I cannot even imagine what you must be going through.

    20. Another Anon Day*

      While I haven’t the energy to respond to everyone, please know I’m reading every comment and am so touched by everyone’s kindness and understanding. Thank you all!

    21. Not So NewReader*

      My profound sympathy to you and yours, AAD.

      I’m an only kid so I have not lost a sib. But I have experienced other losses. When my father passed, I decided to learn something about grief. I guess because I was so rattled and I realized I had no idea what “normal”grief looks like.

      Several really important things:
      I learned about the symptoms of grief. Oh boy, there are lots of symptoms. And confusingly, they can run opposite with some people. For example, some people may lose a lot of weight or not sleep at night. Others may gain a lot of weight and sleep all the time. Some symptoms are a bit scary, like irregular heart beat or forgetting the most obvious things like leaving keys behind or forgetting to feed the dog. There’s lots of symptoms.

      We all grieve at our own pace. And different things can trigger an out pouring of sudden sadness. This is the raw grief. And you will get through it, the tear ducts won’t have a hair trigger in time. BUT. Grief changes shape and changes form. I don’t believe we ever stop grieving because we will always miss our person. And why. We always miss them because we never stop loving them. And it is okay to keep loving someone who is no longer on earth. I tend to think no life is wasted if someone still loves the person who is no longer here.

      My friend lost two brothers in an accident (DWI). He was supposed to go with his bros that night, but backed out at the last minute. It’s been thirty years and once in a great while I will see my friend’s eyes get damp when he talks about his two brothers. His grief is still there after all these years. I think that it is important to say, “Loved one, I will always miss you” , because this is honest, this is real.

      When we have a big loss such as a close family member or friend, it becomes a part of us and a part of our life story. And it does shape us. Don’t be afraid/surprised to see yourself changing. You may have new priorities or new interests. This is how huge loss/grief is, it can change us in some ways. That is okay too, because, again, it’s proof that our loved one’s life was not wasted, they sent out a ripple and we carry it.

      Jobs and household tasks are a blessing and a curse. They are a blessing because they ground us, they give us something consistent in our lives. Jobs and household tasks are a curse because, damn!, it’s so hard to focus. Decide to let your job help you to ground yourself. Grief causes chaos in the brain- back to the filing cabinet analogy. Someone took your file drawer out and dumped it all over the floor. Now you have to pick up the pages and put them back. These pages are your memories, your beliefs, your priorities, everything you think about.Your job can be a time out from that, or it can be something that gives you a sense of accomplishment when nothing else does, or it can be something just fills your days because that is what you need most. You can frame your job any number of ways.

      Punchline, any time frame for grief is reasonable. People who say “you should be over it in x time frame” have no clue what they are talking about. Move away from people who say that, and if you read it in an article somewhere, stop reading the article because the writer has no clue.
      To help keep myself on track, I put things I needed to remember in my own way. So mail would go on top of my purse at night so I remembered to mail it in the morning. If I promised to return my friend’s book, I would put it in my car so I had it when I went to her house. I left myself notes, I wrote a short to-do list each night.
      Remember, grief is a form of stress and stress depletes vitamins and minerals from the body. Grab a salad, grab some water with electrolytes. The more vitamins and minerals you get into to you, the easier it will be to stay on track.
      Taking walks, even short walks, is really great for improving concentration.
      Allow a little extra time to do things and make sure you are getting some sleep.

      And the best thing to do and one of the hardest things, do not let yourself fall into isolation. If the best you can do is go see a friend for one hour each week, then do that. Get there make it happen. It’s fine to take quiet time, it’s not good to allow yourself to be alone all the time. Don’t let yourself sit there alone day in day out for weeks on end. Find caring people and hang with them.

      Let us know how things are going for you.

    22. chickabiddy*

      I’m so sorry for your loss (all of your losses). I don’t think anyone can determine how much grieving time is “reasonable” for anyone else, but as far as work goes, I would expect it would be perfectly appropriate to take a day or a half-day when you need it. If your office starts to push back, which I hope they don’t, could you get a doctor’s note for mental health time?

    23. Random bystander*

      My sympathies and prayers go out to you. My family was in a car accident a month ago and while they are both alive with some recovery road to cover, I can’t imagine how I would have handled it if anyone had passed on. My one point to add is to take care of yourself. Eat at least 3 wholesome meals, try to give yourself 8 hours of sleep, allow yourself some break time to do a hobby you enjoy and not think about the current situation, etc. Also, pay extra attemtion while driving. I think the days off you have mentioned are totally reasonable, including taking one here and there.

    24. catsAreCool*

      I’m sorry for your loss. Try to take care of yourself. Carolyn Hax says that sometimes grief just comes up when you don’t expect it, and that’s OK.

    25. Mander*

      Oh, this is horrendous. I’m so sorry.

      I don’t have any real advice but if your employer is halfway decent they will recognize that some days you might be unexpectedly unable to cope. Also is there any kind of employee assistance program you could access? They might have helpful advice for you.

  9. MsMaryMary*

    This week I received an email from someone who had an emoji in her professional email signature. No. Just no.

      1. MsMaryMary*

        I don’t know if it will come through in the comments. It was

        If the emoji doesn’t show up, it’s the smiley face with glasses (not sunglasses, dark framed glasses). Maybe to communicate that she’s nerdy but nice? I’ve never met her in person, perhaps she bears a resemblance to the emoji?

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I saw a resume with a photo in it. And not just a photo– it was a casual photo of this dude, his wife, and his kid. And underneath he said, “Skills include… proud husband and father.” Sigh.

      1. Augusta Sugarbean*

        Man, I think I need to get my eyes checked. I just read your first sentence as “I saw a resume with a potato in it.” (I’m not sure that would be better or worse than a photo….)

        1. Lily Evans*

          New job hunting tip: include a potato with your resume and include a pun about your application being dropped into the “yes” pile quickly, like a hot potato! (idk, I tried to make it work)

          1. Lindsay J*

            There’s an online thing about how instead of giving your lover roses you should give them a potato because a potato is versatile so it shows that you show your love in many different ways, and that it shows that your love is about more than looks.

            Something about the versatility could work? “Potatoes can be made in to french fries, mashed potatoes, baked potatoes, boiled potatoes, hash browns, potato pancakes, gnocci, and many other things. Like the potato, I too have many talents, including X, Y, and Z…”

            Lol

      2. Clumsy Ninja*

        I had to talk someone out of listing “Homeschooling father of six” on his resume. Um, no…..the only way I could get it across was to say, “Do you really want prospective employers to think that you’re not really available to work because you’re focusing on schooling six children at home?”

    3. Lily Evans*

      At the last school I worked at there was a high ranking HR person who wrote all of her emails in comic sans. Even the super urgent important emails, all comic sans, all with those “fancy” backgrounds that remind me of Windows 97 Powerpoints. Sometimes there was even actual clip art involved. It was so hard to take those emails seriously. She wasn’t the only person who did that, but the most memorable. I’m positive that people there also used emojis in their signatures.

      1. Grey*

        I’ve been on the receiving end of those emails. It’s like reading a bad comic book.

        The worst use of Comic Sans, I’ve seen: A funeral notice that was circulated for a coworker. To make it even worse, the words “gone too soon” were in quotation marks.

          2. EmmaLou*

            Oh yes! My MIL used to use them for emphasis. “Merry Christmas” and a “Happy New Year!” Dear, is your mother being sarcastic? What exactly is she wishing us?

            1. Nanani*

              In some languages, the equivalent of quotation marks is normally used for both emphasis and actual quotes. Any chance she grew up speaking a foreign language?
              Translating from such language in my professional work occasionally involves insisting with the client that they really DON’T want “quotes” around the English version because it sends all the wrong messages…

              1. EmmaLou*

                Nope. American through and through. Family been here for generations. She’s just one who picked up a grammar rule in the wrong way. There’s a whole website directed at wrong quotes and it’s hilarious. I just learned a few days ago that I’ve been pronouncing a word wrong my whole life so I’m not just poking fun at my MIL.

      2. JaneB*

        Aargh, no! And those things all make the email larger – we have very limited email storage, so emails with fancy fonts and pictures in the sig etc. have to be deleted as soon as possible, which I’m sure isn’t the intent of the sender!!

      3. Lindsay J*

        I hate the email “stationary”. Send me a plain black and white email. I don’t need a rice paper or yellow gradient background. All that does is make it more difficult to read, and take up more space in my stupid 150MB inbox.

      4. Nanani*

        I had a colleague who used comic sans for their signature. In that case I think they really didn’t know the connotations since their role was mostly using a language that doesn’t use the alphabet, and there is no equivalent font in that language, so they probably just liked the look of it (and the signature was basically just “name in roman letters, company name in English, TEL: 123-4567”)
        I debated a long time whether to say something and eventually left that job without speaking up since the odds of other English speakers seeing anything from that colleague AND knowing the internet connotation of comic sans were pretty low.

    4. Pwyll*

      Are you sure it was on purpose? If the spacing seemed all wrong for where it was, it could be an e-mail encoding thing. I’ve gotten a few emails over the years with a few random 8) littered where images were supposed to be.

      But if it was a “Thanks! 8-)” No. Just no.

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      My boss uses them in some of her emails, which she sends from her iPhone. So bizarre!

    6. MsMaryMary*

      To be clear, I’m not completely against emoji in email. If you have a friendly, casual relationship with someone, have at it. But to put one in your email signature, where everyone sees it on every email you send? Not the best idea, in my opinion.

  10. eunice*

    So I have a question about salary negotiation.

    If you give a range and say depending on benefits, you could go from 68-72k, and they end up offering 68, do you think it is ok to tell them your benefits at your current workplace are better and that in order to accept the position you would have to go higher? Does that sound whiny?

    1. Dawn*

      Yeah, phrasing it that way sounds whiny. Just negotiate normally- “Reviewing the overall salary and benefits package, I am [hoping/ wanting/ etc] for closer to [70, 72, whatever]”

      I’m sure others will have better wording than I do!

      1. Chriama*

        Agreed. You gave your range and specified it was dependent on benefits. So now just say “after reviewing the benefits package, I’m looking for a salary of 72k.”

    2. Fenchurch*

      You can definitely counter their offer, just do so in a professional manner. It only sounds whiny if you phrase it as such.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      There’s nothing wrong with negotiating based on benefits or anything else, though I would word it differently. More like, “The benefits package isn’t as comprehensive as my current one. Would you be able to increase that to $72?”

      Heck, I wouldn’t even mention the benefits, just ask for $72. You don’t need to give a reason upfront.

    6. Trout 'Waver*

      I already posted this in another thread this week, but this is the classic example of why you never give a range. Give a single number and negotiate from there. If you give a range, the other party will immediately go to the bottom of the range.

      1. Trout 'Waver*

        Sorry, I meant to include some actual useful advice and not just rant. My apologies.

        It’s perfectly acceptable to counter with the top of your range and cite benefits. Be polite, thank them for the offer, and then say that you require $72k in salary to be in line with the total compensation you expect given the benefits package offered.

      2. CM*

        Giving a range has worked for me. I usually phrase it as something like “$XX is my minimum and I won’t accept an offer less than $XX. My preferred salary is $YY.” I don’t want to work for a company that lowballs me. I find that this phrasing sends a signal that I’ll consider XX, but won’t really be happy with it unless there are a lot of other things to compensate, and they’d be better off offering me closer to (or actually) YY.

  11. Minion*

    Can anyone recommend an app for iPad that works like a day planner and maybe even interfaces with my work PC? My work was generous enough to get me an iPad and I’m struggling with remembering due dates and tasks, so I’d love something to help with that.
    So, anything at all you can recommend that will help with productivity.

      1. WhichSister*

        +1
        I recently discovered Evernote and LOVE it. Have it on my computer, my personal phone, my work phone and my tablet. And I know I have barely skimmed the surface of what it can do.

    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      The built in calendar app should be able to sync with either an Outlook calendar or a Google Calendar.

      1. Trout 'Waver*

        Seconding this. The built in app will sync. Ask your IT guy to set it up for you. They should be able to do it in under a minute.

        1. The Cosmic Avenger*

          Sorry, I don’t use my old iPad much, so I don’t have it with me, but I found this. I can’t verify it, but the screenshots look like what I remember when I added my work calendar to my iPad many years ago:

          If you use a calendar available through an online service, such as Yahoo! or Google, you can subscribe to that calendar to read events saved there on your iPad. Note that you can only read, not edit, such events from your iPad.

          Tap the Settings icon on the Home screen to get started.

          Tap the Mail, Contacts, Calendars option on the left.

          Tap Add Account.

          Tap an e-mail choice, such as Gmail or Yahoo! Mail [or Microsoft Exchange for Outlook].

          In the dialog that appears, enter your name, e-mail address, and e-mail account password.

          Tap Save.

          iPad verifies your address.

          Your iPad retrieves data from your calendar at the interval you have set to fetch data. If you wish to review those settings, tap the Fetch New Data option in the Mail, Contacts, Calendars dialog.

          In the Fetch New Data dialog that appears, be sure that the Push option’s On/Off button reads On and then choose the option you prefer for how frequently data is pushed to your iPad.

      3. LibrarianJ*

        Thirding, and I’ll also add that I’m a heavy user of Gmail’s task function and wasn’t able to get it to sync, so I downloaded an app called GoTasks which works really well with the tasks feature. I can actually turn on a pop-up notification with the number of outstanding tasks so I can see how much I have to do even without opening the app.

    3. LadyKelvin*

      My husband used to be a huge evernote fan until they changed the pay structure so that the free version can only support 2 devices. Since he has a tablet, phone, and computer, he switched to Microsoft Onenote. He said it is just as good as evernote and has some features that evernote didn’t have that he likes too.

      1. Observer*

        I’ve been looking at OneNote, and it wouldn’t work for me. For non-technical users, it’s definitely harder to set up the syncing. That’s not my big problem, though. The really big issue is the structure. In Evernote, you can tag things multiple ways, and then you can look at any one tag and see everything under that tag. So if I tag something A, B and C, I can then effectively open a folder / page for each of these and see the note as needed. In OneNote, I would need to have 3 copies of the item.

        If you don’t need that kind of flexibility and two way integration with the rest of office is important, OneNote is great.

    4. SL #2*

      Asana is more of a project management tool, but if you’re not looking for a calendar, then it works great and synces between multiple devices and the web browser version.

    5. justsomeone*

      Wunderlist is my go to. It’s more of a to-do list app, but has a browser interface and a great phone widget. You can set due dates, reminders and assign tasks. You can create different lists for different projects and have public and private lists. It’s awesome, and FREE. I didn’t like Evernote, and like it even less now that they’ve cut out so many of the free features.

    6. Clever Name*

      I use ToDoist. I access it on the web on my work PC and it’s also an apple app (I use it on my iphone). I had Evernote, but I recently got rid of it because they are limiting you to accessing it on 2 devices, and I used it on 3. You can access it on more, but you have to pay. I’ve replaced Evernote with OneNote.

      1. zora.dee*

        From what I understand, you can still access Evernote through a web browser on additional devices, just not using the app. I’m still able to use it at work (in addition to my phone and home computer) by using the web browser. But maybe I’m missing something.

  12. Anon today*

    Informal poll: How long was your last job search in terms of

    weeks/months searching?
    total apps sent out?
    total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview?

    I’ve been looking on and off for 1.5 years and have felt discouraged of late. I seem to get a decent number of interviews per apps sent out, but have yet to get an offer. Even with some very nice “we loved you, but..” emails, I am starting to feel like I will never find a new job (over dramatic, I know.).

    1. UnCivilServant*

      weeks/months searching?
      total apps sent out?
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview?

      Six Months.
      More apps than I can remember.
      Very few. (Less than 1 in 10)

      This was a number of years ago. My layoff had unfortunate timing.

    2. Not Karen*

      My *last* job:
      weeks/months searching? 2-3 months
      total apps sent out? 3
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview? 2
      However this was once I had a specialized MS and 3 years experience. Directly after my MS:
      weeks/months searching? ~7 months
      total apps sent out? ~20-30?
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview? 2
      And directly after my BS:
      weeks/months searching? ~1 year
      total apps sent out? >150
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview? 1

    3. New Job*

      I searched for about a year, intermittently, while employed full time.
      I applied for maybe 20-30 jobs.
      Probably 1 out of 3 resulted in an interview.

      1. Charlotte Collins*

        Thank you! This makes me feel so much better about my job searching. (Unfortunately, I live in an city full of people who are overeducated for their jobs. I think a lot of people look at my experience and would rather go with someone who they think would be less experienced but cheaper…)

    4. Bowserkitty*

      Weeks/month searching: I was searching for approximately a month and a half before I landed an in-person interview.
      Total apps sent out: It was somewhere in the teens. I realize I’m very lucky, and that some hit close to 100.
      Total number that resulted in one interview: Two. One was a phone interview, the other was for the job I eventually got.

    5. INFJ*

      Job search Round 1: sent out massive amounts of applications/resumes to any jobs remotely related to skills/experience over a period of 3 months (about 50 applications). Got 2 interviews, no offers.

      Job search Round 2 (1 year later): Searched for relevant job openings on a whim and sent out 2 applications/resumes to jobs that were a STRONG MATCH for me. One of the companies emailed me later that day to set up a phone interview, and I started at that job 2.5 months later.

      So, overall, it took about a year and a half from the time I *started* looking to the time I found a new job, though there were periods in between in which I wasn’t looking at all. Honestly, I think it just took a year for the right job to get posted, because the position and the company are truly an incredible fit for me.

      Don’t get discouraged! You’re getting interviews, so you know you’re doing something right. Just keep applying to positions that you know will be a good fit and eventually one of those interviews will be the right one.

    6. Fabulous*

      Almost 2 years
      Between 60-100 apps sent out (lost track)
      I had around unique 5 interviews, this is not including those where I was brought back 2-3 additional times
      I still haven’t found anything in my targeted field

    7. Emilia Bedelia*

      1) 6-8 months. I started searching a semester before I graduated
      2) Millions. (Probably more like 30-40 companies, applying for 1-5 openings each)
      3) 2. Actually, one was from asking a friend to pass along my resume…. So one, technically.

    8. Master Bean Counter*

      My last search took 2 years, 4 months, and 12 days. I probably put out 24 applications in that time and had 20 interviews. Some places I interviewed for twice in that time period. 9 places were very nice and got back to me after the interview. I got one really bad offer. 9 completely ghosted on me and one ended with a very awkward encounter in the local post office.
      When it’s right the pieces fall into place with amazing precision. I was recruited for the position I accepted, I never would have applied for it otherwise.

    9. AndersonDarling*

      When I was an admin, I searched for 3 months. I sent out approx 75 applications, got maybe 6 phone interviews, and 4 in person interviews.
      My husband is a maintenance mechanic and has been searching for a year. (Which is UNBELIEVABLE since there are dozens of job ads for maint jobs.) He only sends resume’s for the best jobs, mostly corporate organizations. He sends one or two applications a week, and he may get one phone interview a month, and they always lead to an in person interview.

    10. voluptuousfire*

      weeks/months searching? Between 2011 and 2015, about 2 1/2 years, roughly.
      total apps sent out? No idea. Hundreds, easily. Didn’t track it.
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview? First time, didn’t keep track. From April 2014-August 2015, roughly 50, I think. Most were phone screens but some I did get though to the later steps.

      But yes, been there. Very, very much understand “Even with some very nice “we loved you, but..” emails, I am starting to feel like I will never find a new job (over dramatic, I know.).”

      I got TONS of those emails. Someone always seemed to have something I didn’t have. Too much of not enough, I called it. You will get something, I promise! I’ve been in a job almost a year now (yay!) and they lurrrve me. Not love, lurrve.

    11. Goats*

      weeks/months searching? 8
      total apps sent out? 30
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview? 15

      Context: I was also kind of trying to switch industries. Almost all of my work and education (undergrad and graduate degree) are in the performing arts, and I wanted to work in something… not arts. Like a non-profit with a different focus, or a university (but not arts related). I think a lot of people would have looked at my resume and assumed I probably wanted to do something arts-related so I had to carefully explain why I wanted something different. It was weird – I think a lot of people see the field I was in as a “dream career” for people “following their passion” so it seemed bizarre to a lot of people that I was actively trying to get out of it.

      2. Greengirl*

        I work in the performing arts currently. I was recently having drinks with current and former colleagues and almost all of us had either left or are currently looking to get out. It is a dream job in some ways but people don’t get that there are many downsides.

    12. SL #2*

      2 months
      Probably 12-15?
      2 apps made it the offer stage, but they were also the only ones that gave me interviews.

      This was last year, though, and I was living in an large metro area experiencing a lot of economic growth, and I planned on moving to another large metro area 6 hours away that was also experiencing a lot of economic growth. I’m certainly not the only one who’s jumped from one city to the other.

    13. Was also discouraged*

      weeks/months searching?
      7 months and 28 days. I started applying for jobs on January 1st and received 2 offers on August 28th, one of which I accepted.

      total apps sent out?
      120

      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview?
      Two. I had two interviews one the same day and got offered both jobs seven days later. These were the only two callbacks/interviews I received beyond a ‘we received your application’ email (and all the jobs I applied for were ones I had the skills and experience for)

      Good luck with your search!

    14. H.C.*

      weeks/months searching? about a year and a half
      total apps sent out? 5
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview? 3 (1 of which turned into a job I will be starting soon!)

      My disclaimer is that I’ve only searched for jobs half heartedly too and only applied for openings am really interested in or came highly recommend by my colleagues; I actually enjoy my current (soon to be former) job but am looking for a change after 10 years in the same org.

      In any case best of luck from another year+ job searcher

    15. Pineapple Incident*

      Sporadically/Not determined: 1.25 years, Determined: 1 month (post issue with boss about part-time schedule)
      Total apps sent out: 55 (there was a while when I didn’t send any out, but I’ve sent 8 in the last 2 weeks)
      Apps leading to interview: 7 (4 I ended up in the final round)
      Apps leading to offer: 2 (1 I withdrew because the boss seemed crazy at interview, and offered less than advertised, 1 I accepted, but is sadly only a summer internship so I’m back to my annoying regular job in 2 weeks full-time)

      I feel the struggle. I didn’t get serious again about searching until very recently. The bulk of my interviews came the last time I got serious, which was at the beginning of my job search. This summer, I revamped my whole resume and how I write cover letters (with AAM’s help- read the job guide!). I’m hoping to at least get interview bites this time, so I can practice and get some confidence. It was disheartening last time to end up in final rounds for 2 positions and be told by both at almost same time that I didn’t get it- you’re not being over dramatic. I got that news one day after another, and ended up taking a mental health day from work because I felt super inadequate. Good luck- you’re not alone!

    16. TheCupcakeCounter*

      I was like you – off and on – since my workload made it hard to have time to research the jobs and interview.
      I was somewhat specialized in the jobs I was looking for so my apps per interview was about 75% but I only sent out around half a dozen (picky about salary and location) and half of those went to a second round and I turned down one offer. I ended up hooking up with a external recruiter specific to my industry (accounting) and I spent a few hours with her on the phone and on a Saturday morning in a coffee shop (with my toddler!) and she showed me 3 openings. I really liked one so we tailored the resume and sent it in. I did a phone interview within the week with a face to face the following week. 3 days after the interview they called with some followup questions and an offer the next day. I have been here over 4 years and am really happy.
      Recruiters can be bad so if you go that route find one you click with. I had an advantage that a friend worked for the company but in another state so she hooked me up with someone she knew I would click with and had a good reputation.

    17. AnonMurphy*

      This was 5 years ago, but about 6 weeks searching, no more than 10 apps, 2 interview requests that both got second interviews, took first offer, still there today. I was pretty lucky!

    18. Greengirl*

      Weeks/months searching? 3 months
      total apps sent out? 4
      total number that resulted in interviews? 2

      I’m really shocked it took that little time. I was employed full time and being very choosy about what jobs I applied to (only applying for jobs I was well qualified for, only applying for jobs that excited me, avoiding employers I’d heard bad things about, etc). I also am a fundraiser for the arts who worked for an arts organization that went through a very public crisis during my tenure so I was able to make the case for that making me a strong candidate for arts fundraising jobs.

      My previous job search took 8 months and I sent out about 50 apps. I think I got about 1 interview per 10th application. I was also looking for entry level fundraising jobs and it was a long distance search. I didn’t get any offers to interview until I started saying “I will be in x area by y date.” I remember that I got very close, with three second round interviews and one reference check, for jobs before finally getting an offer.

    19. Jennifer M.*

      I was found out in early September 2015 that I would be laid off on September 30. So I started looking in September. I started a full time job on May 9, 2016. In between I sent out approximately 30 applications (though sometimes multiples to the same company – I work in government contracting and new jobs pop up all the time as new contracts are awarded) and had 5 interviews:

      1) My very first interview was on October 1. I bombed it! It was a job that I would have totally rocked and the company was only 2 blocks from old job so the commute would have been fine. I guess I was just nervous.
      2) In November I got an interview for a job about 2 weeks before the actually advertised it because I knew someone who knew someone. I ultimately had 3 in person interviews and one phone interview in the Nov-Dec time frame. In January they started emailing me once a week to see if I was still available. In February they let me know that the job went to someone else.
      3) In January 2016 I checked out Indeed.com for the first time. I applied for a position at a company that I was kind of meh on in Feb. I got an interview in March. Some red flags – Glassdoor.com indicated that things hadn’t been going so well for the company. At the interview they indicated that they may take a while to hire, but would I be interested in consulting in the meantime. That resulted in a 6 week full time consulting gig.
      4) While traveling to interview #3, I got a call about another job I had applied for on Indeed. Basically it was a phone screening by a head hunter who was recruiting for another company. She said she would pass me on to the company. Didn’t hear anything back. 2 weeks later she calls me to ask if I had been interviewed yet by the company. Told her I hadn’t heard anything. By the end of the day had a phone interview scheduled that was quickly followed by an in person interview on Mar 31.

      5) Had a phone interview with a company that led to an in person interview. Red flags in that the department was currently only 1 person and they only wanted to expand it to 2.5 people. That’s not a lot of compliance people for a company that has about a $100MM backlog in federal contracts.

      Got back from interview #5 to find a job offer from #4. I accepted it. Benefits were only fine but pay was sorta decent. And the job would lead to security clearance which makes up for the other issues. About 2 weeks after accepting, I got 3 emails about other jobs I had applied to.

    20. Hashers*

      My last job search took three months from application to job offer. I applied to four jobs, received face-to-face interview for all of them and received two job offers.

      In general all of my previous job searches have taken about 3-5 months from beginning to end as well. I usually apply for about 20-30 jobs/month and I think that usually results in getting face-to-face interviews for about 20% of them.

      Hang in there! Something will come along soon enough.

    21. Natalie*

      10 months, although I took some breaks here and there due to life stuff. I worked with a couple of staffing firms rather than search on my own, because I am busy af and I hate writing cover letters, so I didn’t send out any apps but I think I was put up for maybe 30-40 jobs? Interviewed with 8 firms.

    22. Jesmlet*

      I might be an anomaly but…
      7 weeks, ~15 applications, 3 in person interviews
      The first place I interviewed ended up being the job I’m in now. I attribute it all to luck and timing. I applied to that job the first day I started looking and if that job didn’t pan out, I probably wouldn’t have found anything for a while.

      Do you ever follow up on the “we loved you, but…”? If they really liked you then I’m sure they wouldn’t mind giving a little feedback. I had a lot of interview practice since conducting interviews was part of my last job. I honestly think that’s where the most solid candidates end up getting rejected for little mistakes. The ability to come across confident and comfortable is everything. You may be the best teapot designer on the planet but if the hiring manager doesn’t believe it, it doesn’t matter.

      1. Anon today*

        That is a good point re interviewing and I’ve seen it myself conducting interviews.

        I’ve had a mixed results asking getting feedback—either no response (and this was a job where I had been a finalist the year before and they reached out to me apply when the other person quit) or, not feedback per se, getting their reasons or thinking. For example, one job said experience with x geographical region preferred. I had everything except that, but the person hired was an expert in said region, had lived there for several years, etc. Twice I applied/interviewed for the job where they were also trying to hire said job’s manager and once that person was hired, they decided to change the focus or seniority of the role which made me a weaker fit for the “new” job. Both cases left me with mixed feelings, i.e. you didn’t do anything “wrong” but it’s also out of your control…..though I guess that’s just job hunting/life.

    23. Crylo Ren*

      Most recent job search was in January this year after my employer announced that we would all be laid off in either June (wave 1) or August (wave 2).

      Weeks/Months searching: 2
      Total apps sent out: 10-15. Admittedly out of desperation I applied to jobs that I didn’t really want and was way overqualified for, but I really couldn’t afford to be jobless.
      Total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview: 7? I got 7 phone screens, 3 onsite interviews, 3 offers, but only 1 offer ended up being relevant.

    24. Moonsaults*

      I started looking aggressively, it was about 3 months before I had any real bites. I couldn’t tell you how many resumes I sent, I’d guess about 25? I got about 10 interviews, 3 of them turned into job offers. 2 of them were absolute failures and thankfully I was able to bounce into the 3rd one in the end and it really stuck.

      However I’m in office management and accounting, that tends to have a heavy amount of executive assistance. So my net is wide and skill set is needed in every business in some way.

      The defeat feeling is your worst enemy. Any time you get turned down, I flip it around to say “Well then it wasn’t for me, I probably dodged a bullet if they don’t think I’m a good fit for them.” Then keep going.

      My last long term job lasted over ten years and I was their second choice. They had to call me a couple weeks after passing me up to have me step in because their first choice wasn’t working out. Try to be as positive as possible, that’s your biggest ally.

    25. Rob Lowe can't read*

      Five months, probably 60-75 applications, nine actual interviews (plus five more interview requests, which I declined for various reasons). This was last year; I actually got the offer for my current job a year ago this week if I’m not mistaken! It’s definitely not my dream job, but I’m satisfied.

    26. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t remember the exact numbers, but I think I probably sent out about 20 résumés? Four resulted in phone interviews. One resulted in a position. The position I got, though, didn’t get back to me initially for several months.

    27. Oryx*

      I spent 2 1/2 years searching while employed full time before being hired at my current job July 2015.

      Guess, I’d say about 30 apps.

      Interviews: 5 in person + 2 phone interviews that didn’t go any further

    28. Elizabeth West*

      12 months
      160 apps sent
      30 interviews (I didn’t count phone screens)
      3 offers–one didn’t pay enough to live on, one was for a temp job, and the other was CurrentJob

      And I totally know that feeling. Keep trying, though.
      Not looking forward to the possibility of going through all this again. >_<

    29. LawCat*

      weeks/months searching?: 5
      total apps sent out?: 7
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview?: 5

      This was all recent as I start my new job in a few weeks. After interviews, I was rejected by two, ghosted by one (so I assume a rejection; I’ll be posting their behavior on glassdoor), withdrew my application with one, and then got an offer from one. This is the fastest job search I’ve ever had in my current occupation because I now have a decent professional network and am at a skill level in my career that is in greater demand than in earlier years. Before my current place of work, it took 10 months and I can’t even remember how many apps (but a lot!) to get just a sprinkling of interviews. Before that while in law school and fresh out of law school, I must have sent over 100 apps and got 1 interview that fortunately materialized into a job. It was a nerve-racking time.

    30. PeachTea*

      Time Searching: I was unhappy with my job so I’d been passively sending applications to positions that interested me. If we count that, then my time searching was about 6 months. When I was actively searching and dedicating my nights to application materials each and every day, that was about 3 months.
      Total Apps: 86 (I kept a spreadsheet)
      Interviews: Went on 3 in person interviews. Had 2 phone screens. Was called about 5 more interviews after I’d accepted my current position so I simply turned them down.

    31. Slippy*

      weeks/months searching? six weeks
      total apps sent out? five
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview? three

      In the IT field Dice.com seems to be really hot place to post your resume at the moment, but that is likely to change when something newer and sleeker comes along.

    32. Lemon Zinger*

      This was back in October. I was unemployed for a month after foolishly quitting my job when I got an offer (but not a start date!). For the first week or so, I was excited and just waiting around, but then I realized that the job was taking a suspiciously long time to “settle the paperwork.” I started applying desperately for anything I was remotely qualified for.

      The job ended up coming through, but I took the month-long wait as a red flag. A few months later, I was contacted by another employer to whom I’d applied during my unemployment. I went through the interview process and took that job immediately when it was offered.

      All in all, the delay got me a much better job, so it was worth it– but the stress definitely took a toll on me and I was very depressed for a lot of that time.

    33. Long Term Job Searcher*

      I’ve been looking for a “better job” since January, 2006. No, that’s not a typo. Since then I’ve moved and gone back to school in pursiut of that better job. I finished school 3 years ago this month. I have no idea how many apps I’ve sent out or interviews I’ve had. I’ve found jobs in that time, but none of them are better than what I had when I started looking.

    34. Anxa*

      4 years to find a job.
      I’m on year 8 of trying to find a full-time, permanent position.

      Lost count of resumes, etc.

      The hard part for me is having interviews where interviewers seemed genuinely impressed with my responses. As in I’ve received comments like “wow, that was the best answer we’ve ever heard.” But I’ve never been the right fight for those jobs.

    35. GiggleFits*

      About 3 months of kinda, sorta looking followed by 6 months of serious searching. So 9 months total.
      10-15 applications maybe? I was very particular with what I applied to.
      6 resulted in phone or skype interviews, and two of those moved to in-person interviews.

    36. nerfmobile*

      This was 5 years ago. I had just been laid off so this was a full-time job search and I did a bunch of networking during this time too.

      Weeks searching: approximately 14 weeks
      Total apps sent out: 20 or so (not too many jobs in my field posted at that time)
      Total number of apps resulting in an interview: 4
      Job offers: 2 (one was from a previous employer – ended up passing on that one for another opportunity)

    37. Awkward Interviewee*

      This is timely – I’ve just been wondering how badly I suck at interviews…
      I’m currently employed, but have been long distance job searching for about 5 months (so I can join fiance where he lives).
      I’ve submitted 12 applications (I’m being a little picky and only applying to things I’m very qualified for, and my field isn’t huge) and gotten 6 at least first round interviews. But no offers. Some were only one round interview processes. I’m 2 for 3 on getting to the 2nd round in 2 round searches.
      50% response rate seems good especially for long distance, but I can’t seem to turn them into offers.

    38. Overeducated*

      About 11 months
      About 120 applications
      Interviews for about 20 positions, I think including phone screens

      Received 6 offers. Turned down one due to family issues, one because I just wasn’t excited enough to deal with the schedule for the low pay, decided between the one I’m starting soon and another, and 2 more offers came in the 3 weeks after I’d accepted. Still kind of sad that I couldn’t take that first offer, it was the best of them all in some big ways, but the timing just didn’t work out for me.

    39. kbeersosu*

      weeks/months: Almost 2 years. (I took a job in there, but kept my search open.)
      total apps sent out: Probably 40-50
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview: Probably 1/3 but that’s because I attended a conference where there were on-site interviews, so I got a bunch in while I was there. Outside of that, probably 1/5.

      Job searching for that long was extremely frustrating, but it involved a dual-career search with my partner, a relocation, and me being somewhat picky because I wasn’t willing to take a step down and would only take a lateral with higher pay. I ended up following my partner to a location where he got a job (which totally sucked because then it limited by search area- and I got calls for two interviews in wildly different locations after we had already locked into that- ouch!). But it all worked out now almost 2 years later. So…hang in there.

    40. Jennifer*

      4+ years.
      I probably sent out 2-10 per year (more as the years went on and I got more desperate) because my industry is incredibly finicky and you can’t get an interview without already having 95% of the qualifications (and you don’t get the job unless you have 100%).
      I got one interview a year except for this last year when I had two.
      Never got any of the jobs.

    41. Bens Admin*

      Not mine, but my husband’s that I mostly did for him due to mental health issues – he just got a job and started a couple of weeks ago.

      Weeks/months searching? 7 months
      Total apps sent out? Probably in the 50-75 range
      Total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview? maybe 3-4?

    42. Colette*

      My last job hunt was six months. Probably 30-40 applications, 2 interviews. Somehow, I tend to get offered the second job I interview for.

    43. ModernHypatia*

      Librarian, so my field, maybe not like your field. (And I was also being moderately selective in applications, so it’s not like there were dozens of jobs that were a possible fit posted every week, usually only 1-3 that were even plausible for me given a combo of my skills / middle career experience level / places I was willing to live which was broad but not ‘anywhere’.)

      My last hunt ran February 2014 to April 3, 2015 (so 14 months?). 28ish applications on my own, of which I had 14 interviews (usually one, but sometimes phone + in person: I had only 2 phone interviews that didn’t progress to in-person), plus about 5 quick initial interviews and one ‘fly out for a full interview’ through an independent school hiring firm.

      It was slower at first, but really picked up: the week I interviewed for the job I had now, I had 3 interviews in 3 states (Massachusetts, Connecticut, and California, so there was some significant travel involved) and on my way back from the last one, got an email for an interview somewhere else. My current job had made me an offer in the middle of that trip, and I’d just accepted it. (And am very happy still!)

      1. Bibliovore*

        Academic librarian.
        2012
        The job was open due to a retirement.
        one on line application in January.
        On site hour interview with hiring director in May
        Phone interview with hiring committee June
        On-site fly-in with job talk end of July
        Five essay questions received in an email , one week later.
        Phone interview one week later.
        Offer last week of August.

    44. Cookie*

      8 months searching, approximately 100 applications sent out, 8 interviews (a few more interview requests that I turned down when I realized the job wasn’t worth leaving my current job), and only one offer.

    45. Ex Resume Reviewer*

      My last job search lasted 10 days from start to accepted offer. I applied for 2 jobs; one interviewed and hired and the second I was apparently under consideration, but Company A acted faster and Company B is connected via personal relationships to Company A, so they knew they wouldn’t get me. One application for my one interview. Really, it was good timing in a market that is short on people with my skills, and I applied just a day or two before they were doing the first round interviews.

      Previous serious job search was fresh from college and lasted nearly a year. I did land a retail position in the interim. I probably sent out 20 applications in that time frame, and I only got one non-retail interview, but that was all it took. I felt so discouraged and depressed that I almost gave up and moved back home. Somewhere there’s probably an alternate universe where I did, and I’m sure it didn’t turn out as well.

      I sent out one app in between those two periods, and got to the first round interviews and I think we mutually decided it was not a good fit afterwards. I so was relieved I never got called back.

    46. Stellaaaaa*

      Just get your two years of office experience and then move on to something else as fast as you can!

    47. Snazzy Hat*

      Seven months and counting.
      35 applications.
      Monday will be the third time I’ve had an in-person interview. I also had a phone interview with a different company (just received the rejection letter yesterday) and have spoken to recruiters at two staffing agencies.

      This freaking stinks, but at least it seems things are very slowly getting noticeably better.

    48. Happy Balloon*

      I am an academic, a career choice in which job searches can take an incredibly long time. I did three job cycles before getting my current faculty position. (In my field, jobs are normally posted in the fall, applications are due in late fall or winter, interviews and offers happen in the winter and spring — so three cycles = three years of job searches, with time off in the summer because no job ads are posted then.) The first year, I got none of the permanent jobs I applied for — not even any interviews — but I was offered a temporary post-doc, which turned out to be fabulous. The second year, I had two interviews that both led to offers, but I decided to stay in my post-doc. The third year I got my current job. Over the three years, I probably applied to ~150 positions. I had the three interviews I described above plus one other phone interview that didn’t go anywhere. Hopefully reading about this ridiculousness can help you feel better!

    49. NicoleK*

      Weeks/months searching: I began applying for jobs late August. I accepted a job in early December.

      Total apps sent out: I don’t recall how many applications I submitted. I mainly targeted county positions. Because I focused on county jobs, there were times when I had to apply twice for the same position (candidate list was abolish and I was required to submit a new application)

      Number of interviews: 3 initial interviews and 1 second interview. Additionally, I was contacted by 4 hiring managers for interviews after I accepted a position

    50. Mander*

      weeks/months searching? Intermittently between 2012 and 2015
      total apps sent out? Many. I didn’t keep track.
      total number of apps that resulted in at least one interview? Two, and neither one led to a job offer. Although my professional field usually doesn’t interview, so I have managed to get three jobs since last May. However, I did not manage to get a job until I moved to London (sigh).

      Most of the jobs I applied for were attempts at either changing fields altogether or getting a stop gap job. I rarely got any response at all. The only real feedback I have received was from the two interviews, and they were a company where I knew people and an internal position at my current employer, respectively.

    51. SeekingBetter*

      months searching: 8
      total apps sent out: 115 (initially I thought it was 130, but I counted it just now and it wasn’t)
      total number of apps that resulted in interviews: approximately 18 (including phone screens)

      I think I keep overshooting the salary range for some of the positions I’ve been applying to and have received a lot of rejection emails.

  13. Jessen*

    So it looks like I’m starting in on my first “real” (non-retail, non-academic) job – call center work. Any tips from the readers?

    1. UnCivilServant*

      I worked on a call center before. I’m sure there are some out there that are run well, but the one I was at regarded the phone agents as interchangable and did not reward knowledge or the ability to resolve caller issues without escalation. They did management by numbers and even when it was obvious people were skirting procedures to inflate their numbers (multiple one-sentence updates to a ticket from one guy, etc) management didn’t care. And they stated outright that anything over zero sick days would be a negative impact on your performance evaluation. I know unplanned absenses create coverage issues, but sick days were unpaid, and falling ill is not typically a choice.

      Anyway. I hope the company you’re working for treats its people like people. But you can’t really tell until you get there.

    2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      I made the jump from retail -> call center too! It’s rough, in some ways, but survivable.

      Biggest tip — invest in giant wholesale bags of cough drops. I would go through usually 5-10 per day with 9.5 hours a day on the phones. It’s a lot of talking, and the air in office buildings tends to be very dry.

      Other things –
      1) Establishing rapport is a lot harder over the phone, but the upside is that you have a lot more freedom to express your frustration in ways the customer can’t see. I use to wave my hands and make faces of disbelief while I was on the phone.

      2) Do not use the mute button to rant. Stuff like that can get picked up by other people’s calls and it’s a problem overall. A couple people in my call center got fired for doing that.

      3) Take notes during calls. What I did daily was just keep a notepad window open and jot down things as the caller talked, so I could refer back to things like name, account #, issues going on, any incident or case numbers… super helpful.

      4) If you tend to get hangry, keep some kind of small, quick-to-eat snack at your desk. Something that doesn’t tend to be noisy, like fruit leather or similar.

      Most of all — breathe and stay calm! It can be easy to get really worked up, but if you can stay chill, it’s not so bad.

      1. UnCivilServant*

        3) Take notes during calls. What I did daily was just keep a notepad window open and jot down things as the caller talked, so I could refer back to things like name, account #, issues going on, any incident or case numbers… super helpful.

        Where I was, the notes were required to go in the ticket so that the next agent (or a reviewing manager) can see what was done on the call. If this is the case – be careful about what you put in the notes, as other people do read them.

        Also, be mindful of the state the mute button is in. This is not always about keeping things said from the caller, but if you’re talking on mute to the caller, it gets embarassing.

        1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

          Oh, I didn’t mean that instead of official call tracking! We had to do that too. I just had my own notes off to the side as an addition.

    3. the.kat*

      Practice your script, make copious notes.
      Smile when you’re talking and if you can’t smile, hold a pencil between your teeth for a few minutes. (It has the same affect)
      Write down your callers names so you won’t forget them when you close the call.
      At my call center, they were big on procedures so memorize those or learn where to find them.
      Bring something with you that you enjoy working with/looking at (fun pens, stress ball, tiny figurines)
      Prepare to laugh at some really bad jokes.
      Also at my call center, those of us with female names and voices got a lot of mildly insulting nicknames from male customers. We worked with car dealerships and there was a lot of “Babe, honey, sweetie, darling, gorgeous, sweetcheeks, etc.” Figure out how you want to deal with that so you aren’t shocked.

    4. Gaia*

      Call center work can be tough. I manage a team that deals directly with customers (although we’re too small to consider ourselves a ‘call center’) and I used to work at one of the largest call centers on the west coast. There are a few things to watch out for:

      Do not be deceived into thinking this isn’t a real, professionally important, job. Many of your coworkers won’t take it seriously. They’ll act unprofessional. They won’t seek out development. They will dress overly casual. Don’t do that. Call center work can transition into more traditionally professional work but you need to take it seriously.

      Management at call centers is hit or miss. Try to find a mentor – someone in management or on the “professional” side of the center and someone who you respect. Let them guide you through the politics especially since this is your first non-retail/non-academic job.

      Learn skills. Learn other departments. Learn training. Learn QA. Help out the supervisors to learn some leadership skills. Volunteer on committees. Get as much as you can out of this.

      Good luck and enjoy! I loved my time in a call center and it prepared me for where I am now.

    5. Charlotte Collins*

      Always, always, always have something on hand to drink. Your throat will get dry.

      If you sound happy when you greet the caller, the call will go much better. (I was teased about my “Disney” voice, but I rarely had a request for a supervisor, and usually only in situations that did actually warrant it.)

      If a caller is angry (not sure what kind of call center it is), remember that they’re angry at the situation, not at you.

      I totally second the mute button suggestion. They don’t always work as they should.

      Do whatever relaxes you on your breaks. Sitting around the breakroom complaining about callers isn’t generally helpful to anyone.

      Good luck! I think experience in retail makes for some great CSRs.

      1. JennyFair*

        I’ve seen people fired for what they said while the customer was on hold/mute, so I agree with those who say to keep it to yourself.

        Charlotte has a good point–smile when you talk, it really can be ‘heard’.

        I always kept a basket of toys on my desk to keep my hands busy while on long calls that were mostly talking (tech support walk-throughs, etc). Balls or twisty things they give folks who are quitting cigarettes, etc.

        Make friends with your co-workers, especially those who have been there a while. They’re a better resource than anything written down. But keep in mind call centers tend to have a negative outlook (a natural result of only hearing from people who are upset), and you’ll want some coping mechanisms.

        Good luck :)

      2. UnCivilServant*

        If you sound happy when you greet the caller, the call will go much better.

        If, like me, you can’t sound happy, at the very least, sound calm. An even, level tone and polite verbiage works wonders at getting upset callers to calm down themselves. I had a very good track record at this, despite my normally abrasive personality. I still can’t figure out how I managed it.

        1. Charlotte Collins*

          True. I used to sit by someone who either sounded angry or bored when she answered the phone. Neither was conducive to a call going well.

          Polite calmness makes people feel confident that you’ll be able to help.

      3. Bowserkitty*

        If you sound happy when you greet the caller, the call will go much better. (I was teased about my “Disney” voice, but I rarely had a request for a supervisor, and usually only in situations that did actually warrant it.)

        This wasn’t a call to a center, but I admit I was in rage mode the other day when my renters insurance arrived and it had my OLD address on it. I tried to fix it online and got all of these ridiculous questions, so I ragequit and called the local agent number. The girl who answered the phone was just so damn friendly and cheery that I reverted back to my own friendly self from the second she answered and the problem was easily fixed.

    6. AndersonDarling*

      Ahhh, the good old days of CSRing. My tip is to be yourself on the phone. I used to use my “phone voice” and I learned that it was too phony and didn’t resonate with customers. People want to talk to a real person, and not a person trying to sound like a robot.
      Good luck!

    7. Rat Racer*

      Yes. Don’t ever make the mistake that I made: I wasn’t working in a call center, but was the ops manager for a network of medical centers. Sometimes, I had to field patient complaint calls, and once (only once) I gave a patient my cell phone number so that he could call me back because it was 5:30 pm and I had to pick up my infant daughter from daycare. Do NOT ever give someone your cell phone number, even if you are trying to be nice, and human, and go the extra mile. Take it from me: this is a BAD idea.

      (for anyone who cares how this story ended, after listening to this patient for 20 minutes after we’d resolved his complaint, I finally got him off the phone by reaching behind me and yanking the baby’s pacifier out of her mouth – we were on our commute home at that point. There was 2 seconds of silence and then an ear-drum shattering wail of indignant rage from the backseat. He let me go then. Signed, Mother of the Year.)

      1. Pineapple Incident*

        That’s terrible! People should know they don’t get your ear for the rest of the day just because you happened to be the nice stranger to answer that particular call! It’s good your daughter gave you an out ;)

    8. Q*

      My advise is do not take it personally! You will get callers who are out for blood over something you had nothing to do with and you are trying to help fix it but all they will do is yell and call you horrible names. Develop a thick skin very quickly.

      1. Jessen*

        Eh, that doesn’t sound too different from my retail job. I was the inside person for the automotive center. Guess who got it whenever things took too long outside?

    9. Angela*

      Depending on your call center (my experience was for a major cell phone provider), you will have different rules. The suggestions to take notes earlier are great, if that’s allowed. We weren’t allowed to write down anything per our contract with cell phone company. Attendance is key with call centers. Seriously, just showing up goes a long way because call centers tend to have very generous policies on how many days you can miss work and the one I worked for rewarded good attendance and it was the FIRST thing looked at when someone put in for a promotion. I was there for 8 years. Only took calls for 3 months, so I don’t have a ton of advice on the call portion. Just remember that no matter how much training you get, everyone feels nervous before taking the first call. It seriously takes a couple of weeks in some of the challenging calls types to start to feel comfortable. Good luck!

      1. Gaia*

        Oh yes this. Be there and BE ON TIME. You would be amazed how much it really does make a difference, even a minute or two. Schedules in call centers are specific because they can anticipate when calls are going to come in. If your butt is not in that chair on that phone, calls back up and it gets ugly QUICK.

        This is one of those jobs where it is important to be on time every day. It will make your managers happy, trust me.

    10. Stellaaaaa*

      Just get your two years of office experience and then move on to something else as fast as you can!

    11. C Average*

      Figure out a way to not let one mean person ruin your day. When I did this type of work, I printed off a few positive customer surveys I’d received and taped them on the wall of my cube so that when I did get a call from a mean person, or when I encountered an issue I simply didn’t have the power to resolve, I’d have a quick visual reminder that I’d managed to make a lot of customers happy, too. Without this perspective, I found I was too easily brought down by one bad interaction, and it made the rest of the day’s interactions feel flat and unpleasant.

      1. Jessen*

        To be honest I’m already dealing with mean people. I’ve been working on the inside counter of an auto shop and I’m the one that gets yelled at whenever something goes wrong.

  14. chemgirl*

    I have a coworker who keeps calling me the shortened version of my name (eg Ash) instead of my full name (Ashley). I’ve told him to call me Ashley several times, but he continues to do it because he knows it ticks me off. Advice? Should I let it go?

    (Should point out that he knows it ticks me off when he calls me “Ash” because we used to be good friends before a falling out. I told him I hate when people I’m not close with call me Ash. So, he knows it’s ticking me off.)

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      If he knows it’s ticking you off, I wouldn’t let it go — on the other hand, I’d be awfully tempted to do something petty like pretend you don’t know who he’s talking about/to!

      I had a coworker who occasionally decided to call me by my (former) legal name rather than the one everyone has used for me since Day 1 at this company — or decided to foreshorten ex-legal name entirely! I’d get emails every now and then going “Hi Jenny,” (name changed) because my email address at the company was Jennifer.Flagrante@company, even though literally everything else was Boochie — nameplate, team directory, mail signature, displayed name, everything! I’d just go “Hey, did you send this to the wrong person? I’m Boochie.” It did get her to stop eventually.

      1. Liane*

        Miss Manners’s scripts goes something like, “Oh, I am terribly sorry, I thought you must have been addressing someone else. My name is Cersei and I’ve never gone by Ciri.”

    2. oldfashionedlovesong*

      If you know he’s doing it to irritate you, you could try politely calling him on it and see if that changes things? “You know that I don’t like being called Ash. Why do you keep doing it?”

      Beyond that though, and unless you feel up to continuing to say “Please call me Ashley” every. single. time. he does this, I think you might have to let it go.

      I can sympathize, I have a coworker who shortens everyone’s names to whatever she feels like and it’s sooooo frustrating because she’s usually doing it in the context of giving orders she doesn’t have the standing to give. She did it to me once (inadvertently calling me by my sibling’s name, which is a short version of mine) and without thinking I replied “That’s not my name.” She seemed offended because no one has ever called her out before, but she hasn’t done it to me since. She continues to do it to everyone else though.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        I would not let it go. He’s doing it to purposely annoy you. That’s not okay coworker behavior. I like your suggestion in the first line about asking why he keeps doing it. I also like the advice to ignore him when he calls you Ash. I also like the idea of just straight-up saying, “You know being called Ash bothers me, and if you continue to do it, I will not respond to you.”

        1. chemgirl*

          It happened again, and I told him “I prefer Ashley”. He walked away while I was in mid sentence!

          It ticks me off bc he calls all my other (male) coworkers by their preferred names. Why does he have so little respect for me that he can’t? Literally everyone else here calls me Ashley.

          After last incident I called my boss and asked for advice. We are in a very male dominated field, so she is a good mentor. She told me to talk to him once more. I plan on calling him out.

          FWIW, we are equal in dif departments.

    3. Mike C.*

      Don’t respond to “Ash”, and correct him every time. It’s your name, he owes you the basic respect of using it properly.

      1. Clever Name*

        I was going to say this. Never respond to the shortened version of your name. If he really wants to get your attention, he’ll start using your preferred name.

    4. Myrin*

      I’ve had great success with simply not reacting to the nickname/shortened version but that was in personal relationships, not work ones, so I’m not quite sure if the strategy would be appropriate there. (But seriously, how childish and unpleasant. Boo!)

    5. Dawn*

      Dudebro is being a dick on purpose, so you have permission to be a dick back. Blank stares, long awkward silences, refusal to answer to Ash at all, and being as cold as possible are all OK here. And NO don’t let it go, he’s being intentionally antagonizing, and you should absolutely loop your manager in if you need to (and I’d even say do so before you go cold shoulder on the dudebro, so that he doesn’t start whining that you’re the one being the B%$#! and being mean and he’s only teasing and you used to be friends but then ahblooheyblooheybloobloo.)

      2. Snazzy Hat*

        and you used to be friends but then ahblooheyblooheybloobloo.

        So glad I wasn’t drinking anything when I read this, because it would have shot out of my nose onto my laptop. And chances are likely it would have been orange juice.

    6. Karo*

      Before your falling out, did he (with permission) call you Ash? I can still see it being incredibly annoying, but it may genuinely be a case of him falling back on old habits. If I stopped being friends with my closest work friend, I don’t know that I’d remember to call her by her full name. It just doesn’t register as belonging to her anymore.

    7. Rat Racer*

      I would be very, very tempted to start calling him by intentionally the wrong name. Like maybe Bill if he goes by Will, or if he doesn’t have a nickname-able name, call him something totally random – like maybe Lizzie.

      3. LabMonkey*

        I have a coworker with an unusual name who insists on calling me by my full legal name, which I do not use ever. I call him a variety of things in response, absolutely none of which are his name and all of which are bland wasp names. He hates it. The pettiness feels so good.

    8. Caity*

      My last boss became caught up with the novelty of using my full name, which I have never, even as a baby, gone by. I first politely explained that because it’s a very common name and not one I’m used to that I had trained myself to not respond to it in public. No dice. I told him it was simply not my name and I didn’t even care for it. Kept insisting it was such a pretty name. I then got fed up and told him to have a change of life baby and name her that. It’s good I no longer work there.

    9. Moonsaults*

      It depends no your workplace, where he sits on the chain of command and how much leeway you have.

      However my response is to not respond. He knows what he’s doing and by responding to it or having a reaction of any sort, he’s getting what he wants.

    10. MarketingLadyPA*

      Ugh. I don’t know if you’re really an Ashley, but I am. My first job out of college, the first thing my boss said was “I’m gonna call you Ash.” And so I just dealt with it for 5 years. Ash is like the worst shortened name ever.

    11. anonymeee*

      He knows it ticks you off. So act like it doesn’t. Stop giving him a reaction and it takes the fun out of it for him.

    12. Tangerina Warbleworth*

      Call him the feminine version of his name. So, if he’s Paul, call him Paulette or Paulina. If he’s John, call him Jill. If he’s Robert, call him Roberta. If he’s Michael, call him Missy. If his name doesn’t have a feminine, call him Dorothy or Francine, and mix it up.

    13. AliceBD*

      I have started to go by my full name at work, instead of my nickname, because when people call me by my nickname they tend to think my real name is something else and then call me the wrong name. E.g. If my full name was Elizabeth, but I had been called Liza since the end of elementary school, and then people at work decided my name must be Eliza. (name changed for example) I purposefully don’t respond to the equivalent of Eliza, and if someone makes it obvious they are calling me that, I say “My real name is Elizabeth.” Over and over and over again. I keep in mind they are the ones being rude by calling me by a different name.

  15. oldfashionedlovesong*

    Thanks to the folks who gave me advice last week on how to ask for a timeline for a position for which I interviewed a few weeks ago, since I am planning to move this month and was hoping to know my application status before I sign a new apartment lease.

    I sent an email on Monday but haven’t heard anything yet. This is a little surprising to me since they’re normally pretty responsive, but I figure they’re getting their thoughts together so I’m not going to push further. Meanwhile, I managed to change the date of my move from 8/15 to 8/20 to give the job a little more time to get back to me. Beyond that, I can only put it out of my mind. Much appreciated, AAM readers!

  16. Audiophile*

    New job has not gotten better. Direct manager was fired (though ED is acting like DM quit) while I was away in FL.

    At least I got paid and it seems to be correct.

    I’m continuing to schedule interviews, because this does not seem to give me a lot of confidence. I’m the 5th person in this position, with the longest tenure being 3 years.

    I’m worried that once I hit a month here, I really need to put it on my resume, but obviously I don’t want to have this org contacted. I’m not sure what looks worse, letting potential employers think I’m unemployed or trying to explain the red flags.

    Any thoughts??

    1. fposte*

      I don’t think there’s anything magic about a month’s work having to go on your resume, and I don’t think a month of apparent unemployment is going to look bad.

      1. Ama*

        Seconded — I don’t think it needs to go on your resume unless you get above six months (and even then you can probably still leave it off until a year — you’d just maybe get questions about the gap).

    2. Moonsaults*

      It’s been 1 month, how long would the gap be if you left it off your resume between the prior job and that month?

      Looking unemployed is a lot better in many situations than looking like you’ve had a string of short jobs unless you work as a temp or as a freelancer kind of thing that relies on gigs more than within a single company.

      If you do not want them to contact that company, do not bring them up. I’ve seen applications where someone has checked the “no” box for “OK to contact this employer” and it always makes my mind go to the worst places, even though I know as a human that it’s not always the employees fault.

  17. Microscope Jockey*

    Science people, especially anybody who has done hiring for a lab-based job: is “job hopping” A Thing in science? I had never heard of it prior to reading AAM.
    I would like to know because I am two semesters and finishing writing/defense away from finishing my master’s degree. While I like my current lab job there is no room for advancement. There are few lab jobs in this area but caveat: my spouse’s job requires him to live on-site and he just started this position last fall. I see him being at this job for several years. I am considering finding a temporary position away from home where I could pick up some new skills. I would be willing to do this sort of thing a couple of times to get the skill set I want. Next time my spouse gets a transfer we have discussed it being to a part of the state where there are more jobs for me. However, if job hopping is A Thing I need to formulate a new plan. Thanks!

    1. oldfashionedlovesong*

      I’m in a science-tangential field and I think job hopping is a thing in STEM fields because of exactly what you describe, the rarity of room for advancement within an employer. In my field, unless you work in the government sector (and even then its rare), you pretty much only advance WHEN you move to a new job. That being said, when I say “job hopping”, you’re still expected to spend at least a year, preferably two, at each place – we’re not talking semester-long stints unless you are an undergraduate.

      1. Microscope Jockey*

        When I said “job hopping” I meant the AAM-described negative phenomenon where office workers keep leaving jobs for new ones on their own free will, which invariably lands their resumes in the circular file when they come across AAM’s desk.
        I’m not sure if job hopping is bad in science in general, nor my particular discipline, because doing a temporary, often grant-funded, position for 12-18 months, then doing another one somewhere else is pretty common from what I have observed.
        I don’t want to do that though if it will get my resume canned.

        1. Newby*

          It is pretty common for exactly the reason you mention. Funding can vary a lot depending on whether or not the PI gets the grant they applied for. Assuming you can use your most recent positions as references it shouldn’t reflect poorly on you.

      2. Ama*

        Yeah I work with a lot of medical researchers and definitely in one’s early career you might move around every couple of years or so because junior research/lab positions are scarce these days and often dependent on grant funding. It’s really only once you become senior faculty/researchers that people start to look at you oddly if you move that much.

        I know one very senior medical researcher who has a poor reputation among colleagues because he moved between three institutions in about five years (he’s brilliant enough that this hasn’t hurt him much other than people are a little hesitant to collaborate with him) — but no one blames a junior researcher if they go where the jobs are.

        1. JaneB*

          If anything moving from post to post in the early stages is a positive in science in my experience – you develop a wider range of skills and experiences which will make you much more flexible when you do take on a longer term role, and many posts are on fixed-term funding so it’s normal for people to move on when the funding or project they joined ends. I’d be MORE likely to look at a tech/lab worker resume with multiple jobs on it showing a range of skills than one where the person stayed in the same place for years, especially if they studied at that place, not less likely.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      We see job hopping with our lab. We view it as kind of like restaurant work, you hop around until you find the spot that is right for you. Our hope is that our lab is the one that people want to stay at.

    3. Trout 'Waver*

      I manage a lab and hire science folk. I and the other hiring managers here look down on job hopping because of how long it takes to train new people. By job hopping, I’m talking about at least three recent jobs of 1-2 years.

      That being said, if there’s a reasonable explanation (military spouse, mass layoffs, company goes under, etc…) I’ll give the applicant a pass if they explain the hopping in their cover letter. Also, successfully completing multiple contract or temp positions can be a positive thing. If you had 4 6-12 month contract positions on your resume, explained what you wrote here in your cover letter, and could demonstrate that you were successful at each, I’d view you as a strong candidate.

      1. Microscope Jockey*

        Thanks for the feedback. The latter situation you described is the sort of thing I am thinking about doing. Does your screen name relate to your work at all? I ask because it sort of relates to the kind of work I want to be doing. When I first met my spouse I described my work experience in terms of “fish squeezing”.

        1. Trout 'Waver*

          Nope. I am an avid fly fisherman and Microwaving Fish seems to be an inside joke around here. So I combined the two for a user name.

          1. Microscope Jockey*

            HHAHAHAHA! Gotcha. It would be unusual for me to run into another fish squeezer, so I had to ask.

          2. UnCivilServant*

            Funny thing is, whenever I skim past one fo your posts I’ve already read I either see “Trout Weaver” (with an associated strange mental image) or fail to register the apostrophe and get the mental image of someone literally waving a fish about in the air.

    4. Nye*

      I think there’s much less of a stigma about job-hopping in science (at least, in biology), with some caveats. Many jobs are temporary by nature, e.g. grant-supported positions, so there’s no problem with moving on after the grant runs out. Additionally, a lot of lab support positions in universities are pretty much expected to rotate frequently because the expectation is that after a few years of experience, folks will move on to grad school. Some professors specifically hire people that want to move on eventually, since a) it lets them add to their scientific legacy by training more people who move on to be potential future collaborators, or b) this lets them get in new people with fresh skills on a regular basis (and, cynically, probably helps keep the salary low since no one stays for more than a few years). Also, there is a lot of understanding of the two-body problem in science, so leaving a job to move with a partner is usually understood (though again, this had its limits).

      I think this is a bit different if the position is at a company or other organization with less turn-over, but it’s still just not a huge thing. Now for the caveats:

      If you’re targeting permanent support positions, leaving for grad school is probably fine but hopping to another similar position multiple times in quick succession may give potential employers pause. For tenure-track positions, changing jobs once after a few years is not out of line, BUT a bunch of it will make you look like a huge liability considering how expensive startup/renovation/etc is for a new PI hire.

      Just my two cents, but as a career scientist I’ve found the job-hopping stigma on AAM to be very different from expectations in research science.

      1. Trout 'Waver*

        I have experience in post industry and academia. What you’ve described is good and accurate for academia. Industry is different, though. The job-hopping stigma for R&D in industry is much more like other jobs than it is like research in academia.

    5. Mike C.*

      First off, temp jobs don’t count for the “job hopping” thing, since they are temporary. So no worries there.

      Secondly, it’s really, really common in school to have short term work. I really think you’re in the clear. Collecting those skills is a really good idea, though I hate that most of them can be easily taught anyway if you have good lab skills in general.

  18. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

    First time business traveler here, looking for advice!

    In fairly short order (by which I mean, a week from today) I’m going to be flying to the Philippines to conduct training for a week. I’ve never done any business travel before, so I’m definitely getting thrown in the deep end on this one! But at least I DO have experience with international travel, so that’s something. I’m really excited for this opportunity — my job is ending in the next few months, but I get to go out on a cool note of doing something interesting and different, and getting another international trip under my belt.

    What advice do you guys have for me? What should I watch out for? What is likely to be different from personal travel? Also, does anyone have any experience with Manila specifically? I’ve heard to beware of taxis and the metro, but that’s about it.

    1. Beezus*

      I have to submit receipts for expenses, and I am not good at keeping track of receipts in my personal life (my budgeting system doesn’t depend on it.) When I travel for work, I have a designated spot in my purse for receipts and nothing but receipts and I put every receipt into that spot immediately. It’s always either a separate zippered compartment large enough to hold a folded up sheet of paper (the receipt from the hotel), or I carry a hard-sided folio-style wallet just for that purpose. I had to fight to get a travel expense reimbursed without a receipt once, and never want to do it again.

    2. SL #2*

      Always keep your receipts! I do a lot of business travel but I also do all the expense reports afterwards for my entire team. You will be shocked at what your finance department will ask you for.

      The Philippines is going to be hot, humid, and rainy. I’ve never been, but I’ve been to Thailand during this time of year, and for a desert rat like me, it was not enjoyable in the slightest. Just be prepared for the weather to be hot and sticky outside, but freezing indoors because they pump up the AC in order to keep the humidity bearable.

    3. Willow*

      Re: receipts, I use a smartphone app where you take a picture and it organizes them. Depending on your company’s policy you nay want to retain the physical ones.

    4. Nella*

      Look up the CDC and see if you need any immunizations and make them up to date. Also, if you have not traveled lots go to your Dr and see about getting a prescription for travellers diarrhea.

      Look at YouTube – don’t drive here – manilla episode. It’s about 42 min long and gives you a great idea about the traffic there.

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      Keep all your receipts, even ones you don’t know if you’ll be reimbursed for (you might). It’s okay to have fun if there’s time. There’s nothing obligating you to do only work while you’re traveling for work, as long as you get your actual work done well. Have fun!

    6. Slippy*

      Always pack a “survival kit” into your carry-on. Basically it has to be enough to professionally get you through the first day if they lose your luggage since Murphy is especially fond of airlines. Also carry copies of your prescriptions for any medications you may be taking in case you need an emergency refill or customs people want to know what the pills are for. Finally, know where the closest branch of your embassy is and how to contact them in case something goes sideways (like your passport gets stolen).

    7. Jennifer M.*

      You need room snacks! If you are in metro Manila there will be plenty of places to grab a meal. But your system is going to be a little out of sorts. You need a box of granola bars or similar for weird hunger pangs. Find a grocery where you can pick up at least a six pack of bottled water. Often there will be water coolers in the hotel gym and you can just refill a water bottle from that.

      Remember that your boarding pass is also a type of receipt – it proves that you didn’t sell the ticket that your company bought, buy a cheaper ticket and pocket the difference.

      It’s been quite a while since I’ve been there, so this might have changed, but I would always have one of those travel packs of tissue with you. A lot of public restrooms would have an attendant to hand out TP and then you’d have to pay for it (this was at the malls and airport, I don’t remember that in the hotels). I feel like I tipped a lot of bathroom attendants. Also, while you cannot legally bring back fresh mangoes, the dried mangoes are outstanding (our family of 4 may have come back with an entire suitcase of dried mangoes once, but we also arrived with a cooler full of frozen beef).

      1. Happy Balloon*

        I had no idea that’s why they wanted the boarding passes! It would never occur to me to sell my ticket, so needing to submit boarding passes never made any sense to me.

        Also in terms of receipts, the place where I work wants to see an itemized list of everything that was purchased, not just the credit card receipt with the final amount. If your (OP’s) workplace is similar, I’d make sure to pick up the itemized receipts, which for me can be difficult to remember in restaurants because I don’t usually need the itemized receipts for my own budgeting.

    8. SophieChotek*

      Yes – save your receipts and organize them. Especially ones that are unclear what they are may want to take a photo and make notes or write a small number on front/back and write in excel sheet what it was for.

      I’ve travelled in Taiwan during the summer for work–so hot and humid. At least in Taiwan, women always used what was essentially umbrellas for shade, so may want to consider that (and sunscreen).

      Maybe take some easy to travel snacks (nuts, raisins, chocolate). [I went straight to hotel from airport, so wasn’t too worried about chocolate melting.] It was nice to have when travelling (on plane) then also at night in my hotel room. (My hotel in Taipei was nice, but wasn’t near where I could get a late night snack.)

      Agree with immunization and CDC recommendations. Make sure you have OTC or prescription medication.

      Congrats on an interesting opportunity! Hope you find it interesting and enjoyable and can see something interesting “tourist” or “cultural” things outside of work.

    9. Anonymous Analyst Lady*

      The Manila airport is awful! I hope you don’t have to use terminal 2, I was stuck there for 8 hours a few months ago. The WiFi didn’t work and none of the vendors took cards. Airport security actally directed us to the scam taxis so watch out for that too (nothing bad happened, we just realized after that we paid $20 for a ride that should’ve been $3). Manila is an interesting city and the people are incredibly nice. Have fun!

      And as far as business travel goes, create a system to save your reciepts. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten home and realized I don’t have them all for my reimbursement.

    10. it happens*

      Carry on luggage only – entirely possible to do a week of work with just a few pieces that go together multiple ways. Also, always carry a sweater/light jacket, the hotter it is outdoors, the colder they make it indoors (I CANNOT explain this.) Agree with the snack food. You also might want to get sleeping pills – for the flight and for the first few days there – it would be very difficult to perform at your peak ability in front of a class of people if you haven’t slept. Don’t know what your schedule will be, but between the people you are training and the hotel concierge you should have no problem eating well every night. As for transportation, the tuk-tuks were fun to watch, but I never took one. Again, I would trust the hotel to fix me up with taxis (and save the receipts!) I remember that there were a number of malls and one had a number of handcraft stores in it – picked up a few unique presents for people back home.

      I was last in Manila on business almost 20 years ago, so take this with a grain of salt. I’ve never been so condescended to as a woman in my life as I was in that city. Here’s just one example, I took my team out to dinner at a famous international chain of their choosing and the other woman and I were given menus with pictures only (no words or prices), juice glasses for our beer and they would not accept a credit card from me to pay – I had to give it to one of the men to hand over.

      Have a great trip!

    11. nonegiven*

      A military spouse advised to sit on your purse in the car because they will reach in and take it.

    12. NaoNao*

      I lived in the Philippines, in Manila, for work from 2010-13 so I’m very qualified to answer this!
      The weather will be very, very hot, humid, and muggy. Wear natural fibers like cotton and linen. The general dress there is very casual–shower sandals, flip flops, leggings and jeggings, short shorts, etc. I would say a simple linen outfit (sheath if you’re a female-type-person, suit if you’re a male-type) and for casual wear, a simple tee with cotton shorts should be fine.
      The traffic and density of the city is intense–there are all types of traffic on the streets: motobikes, tricycles (motobike with side car), “dollar van” type cars, Jeepneys (an truck/bus hybrid), taxis, private cars, pedestrians, and pedal bikes.
      I highly recommend the Ayala and Greenbelt malls for food and shopping. It’s an interconnected complex in downtown Manila full of casual and five star and everything in between, plus movie theatre, and designer shops all the way down to five and dime type stuff. Many happy hours were spent there shopping and people watching.
      People are friendly and outgoing but I’d advise against giving money to panhandlers or children for the following reason:
      –most child beggars are (very sadly) controlled by syndicates with a Fagan-like operator who takes their money and keeps them on the street. You will not really be bettering their lives by giving them cash. Maybe give them food or a small toy if you must
      –if you give one money, food, or a toy, you’ll be swarmed and they are *relentless* to the point where you may genuinely fear for your safety. So try to find other ways to contribute. One time I was in an airport and a person was helping a group of blind people find customers for massages for a few dollars. That’s charity you can contribute to and feel good.

      If you are a male hetero traveler and alone, be very careful of falling in with a local woman, especially romantically. It can be very hard to extricate yourself without spending tons of money. Just keep your wits about you and remind yourself: if it seems too good to be true and it’s a whirlwind, there’s a reason.

      Filipinos hate to say “no” so watch body language carefully. Signs of uncomfortableness or lowered voice/eyes with a hesitant “yes” really means “no” or “I’m not sure”.

      Also, guide books will tell you that English is spoken widely, which it is, especially in Manila, but it’s…pretty basic. You may have to repeat, slow down, guess, etc.

      Final note: the thrift stores, called Ukai-Ukai are super awesome! It’s super cheap and they have really cool, unusual stuff from Japan, Korea, and other Asian countries there. If you’re a smaller size and don’t mind digging, you can find some real treasures!

      Have fun, try to go diving or snorkeling if you can, and indulge in the amazing, friendly culture and warm weather!

    13. Sophia in the DMV*

      The Philippines is generally safe but the new president has been authorizing mass killings of suspected drug dealers (aka poor people). We’re talking 500 people in one month

    14. Nancypie*

      Find out what currency your employer prefers your receipts in. Some hotels will offer to charge you in US dollars vs the local currency, which seems like a good idea but is apparently a giant pain for the expense report.

    15. Bex*

      Use your smartphone to take a picture of each receipt as soon as you get it. If your company covering your cellphone? If not, turn off your mobile data before you turn off the phone for the flight. Print out a map with your hotel, along with a phone number and address in case you need them for the taxi.

  19. Good_Intentions*

    Absent references

    I’m in the process of applying for jobs after being let go during my probationary period.

    The issue I’m encountering is that my references are unavailable. At this point, I cannot even communicate to them that I am between jobs.

    Any recommendations? I have other lower-level references that I can use, but I’m reluctant because they are former co-workers, not managers.

    Thanks!

    1. New Job*

      What do you mean that they ‘re unavailable? Are you able to track them down somehow through LinkedIn or something?

      1. Good_Intentions*

        New Job,

        I mean one is in India for six weeks, another is in the hospital, another is in the process of moving and isn’t checking email/phone messages.

        For the past three weeks, I have been banging my head against the wall trying to reach them.

        1. misspiggy*

          That’s going to be less of a worry for employers, because at least you have references. I’d list them and say in your cover letter that all three are temporarily unavailable, but you will update the recruiter as soon as they become available and in the meantime here are the details of coworkers who can act as interim references.

          1. Total Rando*

            I wouldn’t even list that in the cover letter. I would explain it when a job is ready to contact them (you’d know because they’d ask for your references). And yes, have contact information for interim references as well.

            Ultimately, it’s helpful to contact references before you start job hunting, but if they get a call from a potential employer before hearing from you, I think that’s probably still okay.

            2. Colette*

              Definitely agree not to list them in your cover letter – why raise a red flag before they’ve even decided whether to talk to you.

    2. Moonsaults*

      You’re jumping the gun here. Most places aren’t going to check your references until you’ve been interviewed and they are done with their interviewing process as a whole. That’s their next step after they are ready to give you an offer.

      Give them the list with all your primary contacts. If they cannot reach them, they may let you know or ask for additional references. They do not expect your references to be at their fingertips, they are professionals with lives and we all understand that!

      1. Good_Intentions*

        Moonsaults:

        I have already had two jobs ask for references.

        Given that my primary references are currently unavailable, I have had to use my secondary choices.

        1. Moonsaults*

          That’s fair enough. It will always depend on who’s doing the reference check and what they’re trying to find out. Most are just trying to find out that you’re a reliable person who is what your resume says. So even if it’s not a former manager they’re speaking with, as long as they can respond with “I worked with Good_Intentions for X amount of time and G_I was a great teammate, I’d love to work with them again if I had the chance.” then that’s all that matters.

          It’s very much so dependent on the company and position that’s being hired for. Nobody has ever checked my references. I’d know because I’m close with everyone I’ve ever listed and would get a phone call or text immediately, since if they check your references, that’s usually the sign you’ve been hired. That’s how we found out my partner was hired to his last job.

  20. New Job*

    I started a new job about a month ago. After some bad jobs, I was very careful in my job search and in trying to screen out jobs that would be a bad fit. I did not accept the first job that came along.

    In any case, my new job was misrepresented a bit (one big example is that they said experience in ERP Software X was a plus, but it turns out I am solely responsible for the implementation of it). There are also some things about the office environment/culture that I didn’t know about and aren’t conducive to a productive work environment (babies screaming all over the place).

    My problem is that I have one other short-term job on my resume from a couple years ago. I was only there 5 months. I left on good terms, and had a lot of accomplishments there so I don’t want to leave it off. Plus, my boss there has been a fantastic reference for me.

    What do I do?! Do I try to stick it out? Do I cut my losses now and start a job search (which is hard, on top of learning a new job)? Any advice?

    1. Hatty*

      Wow, implementing software independently sounds like a pretty huge task to not mention during the hiring process. If that’s a skill you’re interested in developing, it may be worth it to push through it for a while to build a solid work history, but otherwise that sounds really stressful. If your only short term job was a few years ago and you’ve been stable since then, I don’t think it would look too bad to quit and leave it off (if you can afford to not work) or list a short stay. If I were hiring, personally, I’d understand if someone took a job and found out it had been misrepresented. I’ve interviewed and hired people ole that before and it’s never burned me. Whatever you end up doing, good luck!

      1. New Job*

        Thanks for the advice. I think I’ll try to stick it out at least 90 days to make sure it’s not JUST the discomfort of a new job but after that, I may quit and leave it off. I have implemented software before but more in a project manager role so I was able to bring on consultants who specialized in the software and IT people and delegate some of the work to other people. It would also be a completely manual implementation where there is no valuable data in any other software that can be imported so it’s a huge undertaking ESPECIALLY while learning a new job and still being expected to perform and meet the expectations of the new job.

        1. Hatty*

          Oh wow. I can’t believe that responsibility wasn’t made clear. That’s huge! I hope either it gets better or you find something quickly. That’s such a specialized skill and huge responsibility that it’s almost a totally different job. On their side, any implementation not done as close to perfectly as possible can have lasting impacts forever (I should know, I’ve been cleaning this stuff up for ten years now). They made a huge mistake not disclosing that as a key job duty!

          1. New Job*

            Yeah and trying to clean up the actual data that does exist (but not in any single place) is a massive undertaking on its own. They have outsourced virtually everything (purchasing, logistics, warehousing), which isn’t that bad except every single location is using a different item number and unit of measure and just trying to wrap my head around that is hard.

            And they don’t really understand that in order for the software to even be remotely helpful, they need to map out processes and change processes because otherwise, the same situations will exist as before … just with really expensive software.

    2. EA*

      This is rough. I am sorry. I left an incredibly toxic situation about a year ago, and tried hard to screen for a good situation. My current job is better than my last one, but I still feel like they misrepresented themselves a bit (exaggerated growth opportunities).

      I don’t know the rest of your resume, but I think you have to take a look at it holistically. I was at one job for 2.5 years, then the toxic one for seven months, and now this one for almost a year. I made a decision to stick this one out for 2 years (I will start job searching at 1.5 years, assuming it takes some time). I really want another 2 year stint to even it out. But if you are mid career, i could see how multiple short stints are okay as long as you have several other ones to balance it out. Maybe stick with it for 6 months and then reevaluate? (Also, WTF with the screaming babies?)

    3. Slippy*

      Screaming babies are no match for a decent set of Bose headphones, a bit expensive, but invaluable. Just set up a little mirror if you are not in the corner so you can see people walking up behind you.

  21. Hatty*

    I have a question for you all. How often do you meet with your boss? I got a new one about two months ago, and we’ve yet to meet one on one or as a department. She really doesn’t know my background or what I do. Our “grandboss” told me when our departments merged that we’d be meeting often as I used to have her job, but that hasn’t happened. She’s asked if we need to meet regularly, and I’ve said yes, but then get no response. She’s also very unresponsive to email. Should I be concerned about this with the merging of departments? No one else does what I do and I’ve always gotten good reviews, so I wasn’t worried about job security until now. Is it normal to never meet or have a boss who doesn’t know what you’re working on, even if you work independently? This is the only place I’ve ever worked so my idea of normal may be off.

    1. New Job*

      In my current position, I have one-on-ones with my boss weekly. Prior to that, I never had them in any of my positions. My bosses vaguely knew what I was working on but certainly not in any detail.

      1. Hatty*

        That’s good to know, thank you. My previous boss was always aware of what I was doing but had no clue how the work was done or the nitty gritty, either. It’s nice to know that part at least is normal.

        1. Charlotte Collins*

          If you’re going through a reorg, I’d consider this a bad sign (based on very recent personal experience). This person might not be your boss for long, and decisions might be made based on lack of understanding of your position.

          On the other hand, your new boss might just be busy and disorganized. (Also not a great sign.)

          1. Hatty*

            No one else here does what I do and the position is mandatory for legal reasons so I am assuming they plan to bring an outsider in or else it’s just a big working style/personality mismatch. It’s probably the latter but I don’t want to stick around until my attitude goes downhill so it’s probably best to start looking either way, as sad as that makes me. :(

          2. Ex Resume Reviewer*

            I wouldn’t take it as a good sign either. When I was in a similar situation, it turned out my new boss had very different vision for my role–one that effectively did not include me in that position.

    2. Dawn*

      Current job I have 1:2 meetings with the two owners once a week (or once every other week if they’re really busy) and I send a weekly summary every Friday with details about what I did that week and what I have on deck for the upcoming week.

      Previous jobs I had 1:1 with my boss once a week, sent a Friday summary email, and we all had a team meeting with our VP once a week (maybe twice a week? My memory is fuzzy.)

    3. UnCivilServant*

      I can hear my direct supervisor’s phone calls because of the poor office layout. Informally there are a lot of work conversations, but official meetings vary.

      My previous supervisor was in a different work site, so it could be weeks between times we saw each other in person.

      So really, it is highly variable.

    4. chocolate lover*

      As far as formal meetings go – once a year for my annual review. If I want or need something though, I just go talk to him or schedule something. Same in my previous job in a different unit of the same organization (though when I started in the field, at that organization, I had a senior staff member take responsibility for my training and met with me regularly, I didn’t really need my “boss.”)

      It really can vary by organization, and even role. But being new, I think it’s reasonable to ask for more consistent conversations, but sounds like you’ll need to make a concentrated effort to make it happen.

      1. Hatty*

        I’ve asked directly, and I’m not sure what more I can do. We don’t sit in the same area so we only talk briefly (less than five minutes at a time) once or twice a week. I think either they plan to push me out or we just have drastically different styles and this may not be a good match. I’ll probably start looking soon. I’m quite close with our CEO, though, and if he finds out why I’m leaving I doubt the new manager will last long. I’ve been here over ten years, they invested significant resources into training me and he can be very vindictive. I guess asking how to respond when he asks me why I’m leaving will be a future open thread question…

        1. Wheezy Weasel*

          I’d ask yourself if it’s really a choice between pushing you out or a different style and not a good match, but frame it as a problem that’s preventing you from operating effectively.

          ‘Boss, in order for me to feel comfortable that I’m doing my work acceptably and can be responsive to our customers/colleagues, I need to meet with you X times per week on a standing basis. We haven’t been able to do that. If we’re not able to meet on a standing basis, how would you like me to communicate with you where there are areas that I need your direction?”

          I’ve also told/negotiated with some of my supervisors that I will adapt to their communication style and use my own judgement based on the ways things have been handled in the past, but if something comes up out of the ordinary, I will need to speak to them for some direction on how to handle it. Then I’ll use that information to frame my response to similar problems, and again contact them if things vary too far from the first situation.

          If those fail to work, you might consider escalating to the level above, even if thats the CEO. In that conversation, you’re looking to get a problem solved that is hurting the business itself…you’re not operating efficiently if you can’t communicate effectively with your manager.

          1. Hatty*

            That framing is really helpful, thank you so much. I’ll try saying something like you suggested and maybe add the “here’s what I intend to spend my time on in the near future, if you want to go in another direction, let me know” thing that I’ve seen suggested here for unresponsive bosses before. And as much as I hate to think this way, if a problem because of bad communication DOES come up at least I’ll have some documentation that I tried to initiate contact more than once.

            I have a feeling this situation will come out eventually and may not go well. A friend from HR happened to ask how we were getting along, and I said “fine but we haven’t talked for more than a few minutes here and there, so it’s hard to say just yet.” Apparently 1:1 meetings are mandatory for supervisors and their direct reports at this level in our reporting structure, and my boss was told this weeks ago. I feel really guilty now, and hope that doesn’t cause any problems but we’ll see how that shakes out, I guess.

    6. Anonymous Educator*

      I chat with my boss often, as stuff comes up. We have official one-on-one meetings only twice a year, though.

    7. SophieChotek*

      I work remotely from my boss; but officially, we touch base on the phone about every two weeks.
      But we probably email almost every day.
      And my boss is very open and tells me to text/call him if anything comes up, so I don’t feel disconnected from him.

    8. Lemon Zinger*

      My boss works at another location. I see her in person probably once a week, if that. We mostly communicate via email and (much to my chagrin) text. Sometimes we have phone conferences with my work partner. Now the work partner has given her two weeks’, so we’ll all have a REAL meeting together next week for an hour or so. This will be the first of its kind in the six months that I’ve been employed here.

      Unless I’ve been assigned a project, I don’t have actual work to do. I’m sure she’s aware of that, but my boss doesn’t really offer any self-development ideas, nor does she set up trainings or sessions with people I should be getting to know.

      She is not a good boss, but part of the problem is just the distance. Out of sight, out of mind.

      1. Lemon Zinger*

        I should also mention that we do NOT communicate regularly. It’s totally random. I’ve gone nearly two weeks without seeing/hearing from her.

    9. it happens*

      I don’t understand why you believe that not meeting with you means that you’re about to lose your job. You mention both a reorganization of departments and that you have a unique, required position. Your manager may be both overwhelmed and sufficiently confident in your activities that she hasn’t gotten around to you.

      It just sounds like there’s a lot of change – you don’t really know what her objectives are and she doesn’t know yours. Obviously communication has not been a priority – try to help her out a little so she can help you.In my experience, weekly 1:1 with the boss are normal, but it’s also normal for the subordinate to put together an agenda of the items that need to be dealt with (the boss will have additional items, but won’t know what’s important to the subordinate.) So, to help her understand what you do, it may make sense to put together a brief document that outlines your objectives for the year, and your progress to date on them and then a very brief weekly update email. Do you have any specific request that you need her to fulfill? Another department that’s hindering your work? A question of judgment that you need another opinion on? Something like that might make her respond to you.

      Good luck

    10. AliceBD*

      In my current position, I have weekly official meetings to go through everything. We’re also one desk apart though, so we at least say hi and do smalltalk for a few mins every day, and I can ask her stuff pretty much anytime she’s at her desk if it’s something urgent that is too complicated for email. We email/IM multiple times a day. In my previous position at the same company I didn’t have official meetings with my boss but we sat next to each other; in that department as long as someone isn’t on the phone and they’re at their desk you just turn around/walk over a desk/walk up and get their attention and start talking.

      At my previous company I started on a grant-funded project where we all met all the time to go through stuff; no official one-on-ones except for reviews but the entire project team was in and out of each other’s areas all the time. Then I transitioned into a position where I had a micromanaging boss who didn’t really do anything but required me to keep him up-to-date on everything I did (every time I changed from doing one thing to another thing I told him) so he could act like “we” were doing stuff. They caught on and fired him, and then I had a boss who didn’t really understand what I was doing but would try to answer any questions I had, and just let me do my thing.

    11. Gazebo Slayer (formerly I'm a Little Teapot)*

      I rarely speak with my boss, but he knows exactly what I’m working on and sometimes I get e-mailed instructions from him. My team lead comes around once in a while, very informally, once a week or so – not for a one-on-one but for a quick “hi, how’s it going, any questions?”

    12. Dot Warner*

      I work night shift and my bosses are on day shift. I haven’t seen any of them since last December. :) We do communicate by email regularly, though.

    13. NicoleK*

      I work for a specialty medical provider. I’ve been with the company since January and have yet to have an one on one meeting with my boss or any of my bosses (I provide coverage for 3 clinics and have 3 bosses). I guess it’s not the norm for this niche industry.

  22. GrandCanyonJen*

    When I started my current job 3 years ago, I was the first vegetarian on staff. Every Friday morning we have a staff breakfast (different groups of staff members take turns preparing or purchasing food on their own time/dime). My coworkers have been very kind in including me by making sure there are one or two dishes I can eat, and I truly appreciate their efforts. I believe if it were not for me, virtually all of the dishes would contain meat (I’m still the only vegetarian there).

    After my aunt passed away of an illness that appears to run in my family, I became a vegan for health reasons. I work in a school, and this was near the end of this past school year. At the last breakfast before summer break, one of my colleagues helpfully pointed out that one of the casseroles was made without meat. Not surprisingly, it was made with eggs and cheese. I didn’t eat any of it, but it got me to thinking…I certainly don’t expect my coworkers to provide a vegan option for me now. And I don’t want them to go to extra work to make a vegetarian dish that I will no longer eat, especially if in general the staff prefers dishes with meat.

    So how do I communicate this to them? Would an all-staff e-mail at the beginning of the school year (next week!) be appropriate? (We do send e-mails back and forth about staff breakfast, so this would not be an unusual topic.) I think that would be the best way to make sure everyone receives the message, because I know I won’t find time to talk to each staff members individually and I do not attend staff meetings. But how do I word it to not seem ungrateful or like I expect them to provide dishes for me? “Thanks for including me in the past, but I’m vegan now, so please don’t go to any trouble to make vegetarian dishes anymore” is the heart of the message, but obviously quite abrupt. Any ideas?

    1. Muriel Heslop*

      Are you going to be bringing your own food to the breakfast? If so, I would just email something like, “Thank you everyone for being supportive by bringing vegetarian dishes over the last three years! For health reasons I’m eating vegan now and will be bringing my own food on Fridays but I want to thank you all for your thoughtfulness.” Or something like that. For the amount of details YMMV. Every school I’ve worked in an email would be more than fine.

      1. Dawn*

        Your co-workers sound super nice! Seconding the nice email mentioned above. I bet people will start trying to bring fruit or vegan-friendly pastries for you in the new school year.

      2. Beefy*

        I really like this phrasing! I’m a vegetarian, and I field a lot of questions surrounding vegetarian and vegan diets. For one thing, many people don’t know the difference! One issue with other people trying to bring vegan-friendly items is that sometimes, they’re going to miss the mark, just because they don’t truly understand what being vegan entails. (I’m looking at you, gelatin, you sneaky bastard!) At my office potlucks, I bring my own dish, and I think that’s going to be the best approach for you as well. I’d much rather do that than discover (sometimes the hard way) that someone thinks seafood, chicken stock, or even chicken is going to be a viable vegetarian option for me.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Well, first of all, it’s pretty easy to provide vegan options. Peach & avocado salad! Smoothies made with almond milk! etc.

      But if you want to stop being involved, I’d say something like this: “Hi all! I wanted to let you know that I’ve made some changes to my diet that are more restrictive, and I’m not going to be able to participate in the breakfast rotation any more.” They can draw their own conclusions about whether to keep making vegetarian options (which I’m quite sure others enjoy, even if they aren’t vegetarians themselves).

    3. INFJ*

      If they were willing to bring in vegetarian options in the past, I don’t see why they wouldn’t be happy to bring in vegan options now. It will help if you can point them towards specific foods and brands of store-bought items that are appropriate (e.g., bagels). (If you give specific brands that are always OK for those items, then everyone doesn’t have to remember to check for l-cystine and white sugar.)

      If you think that sounds too bossy to offer those suggestions without solicitation, you can keep the email to something along the lines of, “Thanks for providing vegetarian dishes at Friday staff breakfasts. I am now eating vegan; feel free to reach out if you have questions or want suggestions”

      Good luck! And I’m glad to hear that you’ve made a choice that will not only improve your health, but the health of the planet, too.

    4. Hibiscus*

      “Hey friends–I wanted to say a couple things. One you have all been the best over the past couple of years trying to make sure there are vegetarian options for me at Friday breakfast. I have never gone hungry, and I really appreciate it. It is fantastic to work with such a great team.

      But I have made some additional changes lately to stave off diseases that run in the family and gone vegan–which means I’m not eating any animal products, even eggs and cheese. I don’t expect anyone to learn how to cook dishes for me or provide a vegan option. I just wanted to let you know upfront in case there’s any question of why I’m not eating those fluffy cheese eggs Silencia makes, and avoid any hurt feelings.

      And if anyone is interested in plant based diets or wants to talk whole foods and swap recipes–I’m your person!”

      2. Rob Lowe can't read*

        Yes! We do the same thing at my school (until the OP mentioned that back-to-school is next week, I was like…are we on the same staff?), and if I got this email I would absolutely reach out to the sender if I had questions about whether my contributions would meet their dietary needs.

      3. Nye*

        I think this wording is good, but might leave off the last line. It skirts up to the line of vegan proselytizing (though is the gentlest way to do it), especially given that the coworkers are pretty avowedly carnivores.

        GrandCanyonJen, you sound like a lovely and thoughtful person who doesn’t want to push your choices on others. That’s probably why your (also lovely-sounding) coworkers have been so willing to cook vegetarian options in the past. I wouldn’t be surprised if they try some vegan options for you now, but I think your instinct not to push this is a good one.

        Personally, I’m a happy omnivore who loves to cook, and will periodically try to accommodate friends and co-workers on restrictive diets. However, this is definitely a challenge when you’re talking something like vegan. I’d resent it if I felt like my friends just expected me to accommodate their various dietary choices. But since they don’t, I enjoy treating them to something delicious that they can eat.

    5. TheCupcakeCounter*

      I like a couple of the suggestions here. Definitely start with a thank you and how much you have appreciated their thoughtfulness over the last few years and then you can simply say that due to some health concerns you have chosen to go vegan so will not be able to eat the delicious offerings they have brought in the past. I wouldn’t give any suggestions or put in a line about if they still want to bring something you can eat to get in touch. It sounds a bit presumptuous. If the tone comes across as “thank you for all you have done to make me feel like a part of the team and since I made a change for reasons I wanted to make sure you didn’t go through any trouble just for me when I can no longer enjoy it”. Someone might ask you for some suggestions and if I were you I would offer to bring something in that meets your dietary requirements and others will enjoy.

    7. (Not an IRS) Auditor*

      To be honest, I wouldn’t mention you’re specifically going vegan. I’d leave it at ‘a more restrictive diet for health/medical reasons.’ If folks want to follow up for details with you they can. So few people understand what vegan means that you want to discourage all but the few willing to really do their homework from even trying.

  23. Fenchurch*

    How to get my team on board with a project they think is a “waste of our time”?

    We did the whole Gallup employee survey thing and my manager decided it would be a great stretch project for me to lead our team in the action project to help either better our score next time around or keep it high. We scored pretty damn high (4.5+ as an overall satisfaction out of 5) and my team feels like a project is not necessary.

    I’m thinking of keeping the overall scope very small, as we clearly don’t need a lot of help with satisfaction. It’s difficult to get them on board with brainstorming and I’m getting a lot of resistance from specialists on the team…

    Any ideas of how to make this work?

    1. Pwyll*

      Does the action project have to do with solving problems, or are we talking volunteer work?

      Did the survey have any indication of what the .5 decrease was? (I have to say I think I’m probably on your coworkers’ side here). Is it possible to find out and turn your project into addressing whatever that is?

      1. Fenchurch*

        The only portion that we scored really low on is not something that I can fix (new technology that had a lot of issues causing us a lot of pain).

        One part that dipped a bit was regarding recognition for work done well. I was thinking of addressing this, and implementing a “kudos” as part of our weekly huddles. Giving the team a chance to bring up each other’s accomplishments each week.

        1. Pwyll*

          So, I’m not generally a fan of “forced kudos”. I find them a bit patronizing (once it becomes forced you end up with stuff like: “Snaps for Julia for writing that report that is her job! Yay!”)

          That said, could you instead turn this project into providing that advice to your boss? Something like, “One of the improvement steps we had from the survey was increasing recognition. I’m really taking it upon myself to be more proactive in our huddles to recognize my coworkers, can you make it a point to do the same?” Once more than one of you start taking that time, I’ve found it to be more organic and others will start to follow suit, without the feeling that it’s forced or a bandaid/knee-jerk solution to the bad survey results.

          1. UnCivilServant*

            I’m generally not a fan of kudos period. But that’s just because they tend to come from people who don’t understand my job and they end up gushing over the things that are really simple for me, while completely missing or glossing over those areas where I had to put in the greatest effort to get things done right.

            It comes off as unintentionally patronizing. I know they don’t mean it, that’s why I’d rather they not do it, because it has a negative impact on my morale.

            1. ScarletInTheLibrary*

              +1,000

              I have gotten to the point that I dread being next on the list to get kudos. Or feeling pretty deflated when those that get what I do give kudos to everyone.

        2. Chaordic One*

          I hope you’ll at least acknowledge the new technology that has a lot of issues causing pain. In my old job we went through an extremely difficult transition to a new cloud-based computer system that did not work as well as the one it replaced, was unintuitive to use, added a lot of extra steps, cut into productivity and created a lot of extra stress. Supposedly, over time they were going to get the bugs out, but I never saw any evidence they were trying.

          Management refused to acknowledge that any problem existed and painted anyone who pointed out the problems as being “resistant to change”, which only fed the feeling that they were out-of-touch and not supporting the workers on the front line dealing with customers and branch offices.

          I hope you’ll thank you team for their patience (they certainly didn’t choose to have this new technology foisted on them) and apologize for the difficulties the new technology has caused, while acknowledging that you are unable to do anything about it. It would be even better if you could get some of your supervisors to also do so.

    2. Sualah*

      My company does a big Gallup survey thing, too, and we have to come up with action plans for our lowest and our highest scores. The logic for doing the highest one is, “OK, what do you think is going so well? Why are you so satisfied? Let’s make sure we keep doing that.” So it’s not really a waste, to let our manager know that we really appreciate how she lets us manage our own time and projects, and how we like having quarterly team meals (lunch or breakfast), but don’t want after hours events. Because what if part of the “satisfaction” was spending time with coworkers, but your manager interpreted that as after hours events, and none of you wanted that?

      Yes, if part of the satisfaction is not having meetings, and now you have to have meetings about how to keep satisfied, that’s a little contradictory, but I don’t think brainstorming on what’s going well is necessarily a waste. And it doesn’t have to be meetings, if you can set up online polls or something, that can get you the feedback your boss wants.

    3. Gene*

      If the goal of the project is to actually improve something that isn’t working, you probably need to clearly explain that.

      If the goal of the project is just to get the number up, they’re right, it’s a waste of their time. And you shouldn’t do things that are a manifest waste of time. I think you should take your team’s feelings into account and look closely at the reason for the project.

  24. Bowserkitty*

    A few weeks ago I said things were going to turn around. And I tried. My depression has gotten so bad that my motivation has fallen and my work ethic has gone to crap. The icing on the cake was when a mistake happened over a misunderstanding for something I hadn’t been trained on (a bit of a long story to explain but I can if you want), and I had an anxiety attack over it. Later that day at the I was chatting with my friend who referred me to the job and I told her what was going on. She said I’m doing far more than what was described in the posting and it sounds like I’m overwhelmed. I never considered that but she’s right. I thought it was my own inability to keep up. Maybe it is?

    My last conference of the season/year ends today so I think that will allow me to focus more on everything else. I have to maintain hope it’s going to get better. I don’t want to up my meds if I don’t have to but I’m thinking I may need to soon.

    1. Bowserkitty*

      also, somebody’s made bacon around here and that’s all I can focus on. *twitch* (it smells amazing)

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      You gave me a pep talk, so I’m going to give you one. Work should not give you anxiety attacks. Are you still searching? Because that might be the answer– and it might give you something that helps you feel more in control.

      As far as your meds go… If that’s the short-term solution, then do it. But I’ve been there and I’ve been resistant to it to. Just know that as long as you and your doctor discuss it, it’s ok. If that’s what you need to get you through the short-term, you do it.

      Good luck! I’ll try to send you some of those positive vibes you sent me. :)

      1. Colette*

        Related to thinking about looking – does your manager know how overwhelmed you feel? Can you discuss cutting back on what you do?

    3. The Butcher of Luverne*

      Maybe adjusting your meds is not such a bad thing…? If they helped a little before, maybe they can be much more helpful if increased….

    4. Elizabeth West*

      No suggestions other than if you need to up meds, do it. You may not need them at that level forever, just long enough to get back on track. It’s not a defeat in any way–you’re just managing your condition.

      Also, hugs *and grabs your avatar and attacks the word depression–rawwr!*

    5. Mreasy*

      Not that mess are the answer, but I’ve had great success with an an anti-anxiety to take to treat panic attacks when they start. These keeps them from derailing my day, which can cause a downward depression spiral. Generally not suitable with any history of addiction, but I haven’t had any issues at all with overdoing it. Sometimes just knowing they’re there can calm me down without taking anything.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I have seen where anxiety attacks can be triggered by feeling UNsupported.

      Your friend sounds like a gem. Ask her to help you make a list of things that she feels is beyond the call of duty. Actually write a list on paper. Then go in and talk to your boss. Let her know that you have too much on your plate, you need training, etc. Show the boss your list you have and let her know this is what you have been trying to do.

  25. Simplytea*

    How did you realize what you want to do? Recently, I’ve been learning a lot about what I DON’T want to do, which has refined my sense of what kind of work style I want to have, what projects I want to work on, what field I want to work in, and what kind of manager I want to be (when I become one). But mostly it’s been process by elimination…

    Has anyone had a different experience? I’d love to hear!

    Thanks :)

    1. Canton*

      For me it is also just a process of elimination – you don’t really know what you like or enjoy until you actually try it. The only thing that could really help move along the process for you to actively search out new experiences and then you’ll know whether or not that works for you.

      1. Lemon Zinger*

        +100!

        For most people, the first few jobs are pure elimination of things that we realize we don’t like doing. Even if you fall into the right industry, you may still need to narrow down what you do and don’t like about it, and what roles would best suit you.

    2. Ordinary Worker*

      48 years old, still don’t know what I want to do. I am making the best I can with what I’m actually doing even though I don’t really find it challenging or fulfilling.

    3. lionelrichiesclayhead*

      It was a process of elimination for me as well. It was also a realization that I enjoyed doing certain things but not in certain industries. For example, I was previously doing business analyst type work in the financial field and was MISERABLE. After some insight from a mentor, I realized that I liked the types of things business analysts do but I did not like doing it with financial information. Now I’m working for a major home improvement retailer as a business analyst and I love it!

      I also had to work as a manger for awhile to realize that I really don’t like managing people but I do like managing projects. Life would be so wonderful if I just knew what I wanted to do and how, why, where etc. Some people are lucky enough to know this, most are not and have to figure it out through experience. I think what you are dealing with is very normal.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      Echoing others: I had a fairly clear sense of what I wanted to do… until I turned 25, and then I was suddenly in a career crisis, because I didn’t want to do that any more. I bounced around a few careers, and now I’m doing something I want to be doing for at least the next five years. Does it have to be a lifelong commitment? I don’t regret doing any of the things I did before my current job…

    5. Elizabeth West*

      Well, I’ve had to define my professional life by what I CAN’T do (math-y stuff). So most of my jobs are just that–jobs. They only pay the bills; I don’t do them because I want to. I choose them by the following criteria:

      1. No accounting or budgeting
      2. Pay
      3. Hours (no evenings or weekends)
      4. Preferably no phones

      I’ve been reading my horoscope on MSN UK* for a laugh, and weirdly, for the last three days it’s been emphasizing new job new career things are going smoothly about to go your way, etc. etc. etc. I know it’s bogus, but part of me can’t help hoping it’s right!

      *It’s always MSN UK; since spending five weeks there, my Firefox browser refuses to load the US version. It just will. not. do. it. It apparently thinks we’re still there.

      1. Jennifer*

        Yeah…that’s pretty much how I’m feeling these days. But everyone wants you to do payroll and/or event planning and/or travel these days, which screws me. Or phones. Or “first point of contact.” Seriously, you do not want to ask me about your money!

        It’s pretty much guess and check. I fell into the jobs I liked, I got dropped into this one I didn’t, found out the easy or hard way.

    6. themmases*

      Basically the same. I am just working my greedy algorithm way through life, swimming away from stuff I don’t want to do and towards what I do want to do (or what nice people offer me, or what seems lucrative and non-evil…)

      At some point a few years ago I sat down and wrote up a general description of my ideal type of work, environment, coworkers, etc. It pretty much describes a research environment so now I go for skills and accomplishments I am willing to keep using that I think will make me valuable enough to stay in one. I’m flexible about the specific type of research and it’s been really useful to learn that about myself.

  26. AvonLady Barksdale*

    I left my job yesterday. I didn’t mean to, but it happened. I’ve been miserable, and some recent changes made it worse. I spent every day hoping I wouldn’t make a mistake, and any mistake became a crisis. I came back from vacation and spent the whole week crying, basically. My boss and I had a conversation on Monday about general stuff during which he said, “If this isn’t for you, I will help you, you need to be happy, etc.” So yesterday I said yeah, I’m not happy, and he said, “OK, then, I think this should be your last day.” I wanted to see my current projects through, but he said no, I brought them to a place where they can be handed off easily now, so best to just do it.

    It’s not the worst thing in the world– they’re being generous with me and, again, I was so miserable– but I haven’t been without a job since 2004. I know a lot of people have been through this (including the girlfriend I texted who came over immediately)… what should I do? I’ve already sent in a few applications and reached out to some people in my network, and my now-former co-workers have my resume (they were shocked and upset but very supportive), but I just feel so lost. I have a reasonably good cushion so I don’t need something TOMORROW, but part of me wants to run over to the local fancy bookstore and put in an application (because hey, I loved working retail and I was great at selling books!). People talk about “funemployment”, but all I seem to be able to do right now is cry and try not to panic. Something a little more constructive would be very much appreciated!

    1. Bowserkitty*

      Your boss is amazing, it seems. I’m kind of going through a similar thing right now (the mistakes and stuff) so I sympathize.

      I think that retail job is a fantastic idea. During my unemployment I considered doing that at a popular lingerie store but the credit card pushing turned me off of it. Just remember to breathe and RELAX. Think of it as a mini vacation. Focus on yourself, your health and wellbeing, and continue to push your resume out when you find something that sounds like you want to do. You must look at this at the good thing it truly is!

      1. Dawn*

        “Just remember to breathe and RELAX. Think of it as a mini-vacation. Focus on yourself, your health and wellbeing…”

        +100!!!

        Put in an application for the bookstore! It sounds like your last job has left you super stressed and burnt out, and you NEED to recover from that before you are going to be able to give 100% to ANY job.

        Give yourself a week or two to just do NOTHING. Relax, clean the house, go to that park you’ve always wanted to go to, do your grocery shopping in the middle of the day when the store isn’t packed with people, go for walks in the morning, start reading those books you’ve not had time for… RELAX. It will clear your head and put you in a much better mental position to start applying for other jobs!

        2. Lemon Zinger*

          THIS! Giving myself a week or so to focus on self-care was so helpful when I was unemployed. At first I felt kind of dejected, but then I was able to turn that into productivity. I took care of my apartment MUCH better– it became my hobby, in a way. Like, if I wasn’t going to have a job, I might as well make homemaking my job for the time being.

    2. amysee*

      A while back a friend was terminated from a very, very toxic workplace. She had needed to find a new job but her head was so messed up from toxic job that she couldn’t sell herself well or even see that she was worthy of employment. She managed to get a temporary, part-time job, and it really helped her heal… she regained a lot of confidence and physical/mental health. As the temp position was winding down she was able to ramp up the job search and find something she really liked.

      Maybe a bookstore job would be similarly therapeutic for you? Regardless I hope things start looking up for you very soon.

    3. Jesmlet*

      There’s nothing wrong with taking a few weeks just to relax and get yourself back to a place of calm. Don’t let anyone tell you you need to start blitzing out those applications. Good employers won’t care that there are a few weeks or months in between and the best employers will hear you when you say your last job wasn’t a good situation and actually take the time to understand why.

      I went from a job where I was miserable, concerned for my safety and constantly cranky or depressed, to a job where my coworkers are fantastic, the work is manageable and I don’t dread waking up every morning. If you walk into an interview and meet people you would actually want in your life outside of work, or where you would be doing a job that you would actually enjoy, that’s when you know you’ve found the right place. The bookstore sounds like a great idea. Doing something you love is great for your spirit and great for your confidence. If after a while you want to move onto a different job, you’ll go into it refreshed and positive and that makes all the difference.

    4. Mustache Cat*

      Some of the best and most rewarding jobs I had were part-time jobs! I couldn’t stick with them because of ambition/financial concerns but yes, if a bookstore sounds fun for you, please go for it. Use this time between full-time jobs to recharge and rest.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yes, OMG my favorite job was part-time with no benefits, as an office clerk in a materials lab. If it were full-time with benefits and the place were still open, I might still be there even though the pay was dismal. Because I LOVED it.

    5. zora.dee*

      Seconding all of the advice to just take some time to relax, sleep and recover. I left the job that was giving me panic attacks, and it took me a few weeks to remember what it even felt like to NOT wake up every night at 4 am with a panic attack!

      If you want the part-time work to help keep you busy and from worrying, go for it. But what I needed more than that was time to get back to non-panic land, which involved sleeping a lot, cleaning my house, watching tv, etc. If you need to ‘do something’, work on lists for your job search. To do lists, create the template spreadsheet to track job applications, lists of what you do want and don’t want in your next job.

      And one thing that really helped me was some sort of journaling about myself to help me with Job Trauma Recovery. One friend told me to make a list every day of 3 things that I’m good at or that I did really well that day. It sometimes included things like “I’m a really great friend.” Or “I’m good at deep cleaning my fridge.” but it really helped get out of that place in my head where I thought I was totally screwed forever and would never get a job again. Look at some things online/free resources to help overcome anxiety and focus on positive things/reset your brain.

      I’m glad you got out!! You will recover and feel so much better eventually, I promise!

    6. Camellia*

      Will you be able to collect unemployment? If so, you might not be able to take a job without losing your unemployment benefits. If the pay at the new job doesn’t meet your financial needs, that is probably not a good idea.

      However, if the pay DOES meet your needs then it might be just the thing for you.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Unemployment in my state is kind of a joke. I’d almost rather be working at something temporary yet enjoyable than bother with unemployment. But I think no matter what, I have to chill out a bit. I do have a small package, so I’m ok for the time being.

      2. higheredrefugee*

        I was thinking the same thing re: unemployment. If that’s the case, find a low-key volunteer gig instead. When I was job searching, I took some shifts in the Used Book Sale Room at our local library a couple times a week, which got me (a) out of the house and (b) connected to random retired people who were more than happy to share job leads and connections.

        But yes, do take some time to take care of yourself and your home space. I found that time to be great for purging stuff and unearthing books I loved and hobbies I had neglected. Good luck!

    7. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I just want to thank everyone for being so nice and understanding. It’s been quite a 24 hours, and I still haven’t processed everything yet. This weekend is going to be very, very difficult for me. I’m already experiencing depression-related lack of appetite, which might help with my weight loss plan but is no good for my well-being. I just scarfed down some chicken.

      My boyfriend caught me on Indeed and told me to quit it until next week. He’s right– there’s no point in looking for something now, nor is there a good reason to email people on Friday. In my industry (and in many others), Fridays in the summer are dead zones anyway. I’m taking his (and your) advice.

      I’m also trying actively not to panic too much. And plan a day trip to the beach.

      In kind of weird news, I submitted a resume at 9am and got a call from the company at 10:30. A phone screen. Do I want this particular job? I’m willing to explore it, for sure, but it’s not my top choice. Still feels kind of nice that at least I can get one phone call.

      1. LuvThePets*

        I found myself in a very similar situation this May. After two years of extremely stressful, heartbreaking work, my company and I parted ways very unexpectedly. It’s the first time in my life when I did not leave on my own terms. But the stress alone of being unsuccessful and stressed in that job was killing me, and my family. Though we need my income, and not having a backup job was stress in itself, my blood pressure immediately went down by a couple of points and my anxiety has stayed down. I believe enough in myself (and personally am a person of faith) to know that my skills and abilities will ensure that I will be needed and employed or able to contract/freelance. I started making plans for freelancing in the interim while sending out applications, and my personal good news is that I am starting my new, much less stress, and much better paying/benefits position on the 15th. If you were anywhere near as stressed or miserable as I was, see this as a blessing. I would not have quit my job on my own. Sometimes we need help getting out of negative, harmful situations. Take care and take it one step at a time looking for the opportunity that will bring you blessings instead of harm.

    8. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd*

      Aw, honey.

      I’m late catching up to this and I don’t have much to say other than big hugs for you.

      Take a breath. Play some video games, watch Netflix, cook a bunch of things you’ve always wanted to, bake bread or do whatever it is you want to to decompress. You have a strong career history and you’re going to land fine.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        You must have some kind of weird telepathy, because I just made a very conscious decision to spend some quality time perfecting my bread game. :)

        And thank you. Your kind words mean so much. I’m trying hard to breathe, and I know I’ll be ok eventually.

        1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd*

          Making bread is a great stress reducer! And a giver of great accomplishments! Plus, bonus, you get bread!

    9. Not Me*

      I know I’m late responding to this, but I will anyway on the off chance that you’ll see it. I’m a regular poster but this is my pen name for when I want to share tough job struggles since I think a coworker reads here.

      I’m in a really similar situation right now. I’m not happy with my job and I realize I haven’t been for a long, long time. I should have left it a year ago but I kept thinking things would get better; instead, they’ve gotten progressively worse. Things finally came to a head several weeks ago and I found myself in HR, facing a bunch of weird accusations and a PIP. My anxiety and depression reached a critical mass and I ended up feeling suicidal and…..well, I was a really big mess. I couldn’t eat or sleep or concentrate. All I did was cry and think about dramatic ways to leave my job for good. Like you, I was in panic mode. (Sometimes I still am, but time has made it slightly better).

      After a month of FMLA leave and a bunch of new medications (thanks to some very concerned and empathetic doctors), I’m feeling much better and I can clearly see that my job is a super unhealthy situation for me and I can’t go back to it. I’m fortunate that I may be able to transfer internally to a different team that’s got better management. If that transfer comes through then I’ll take it gladly; otherwise, I’ll have to make other arrangements.

      Life is short. Take care of yourself and if that means short-term medication then that’s OK. Sometimes we need that to be able to cope with our current situation. I think your idea of a part-time job doing something you love sounds awesome and it’s something I hadn’t thought of for myself, so thank you for that. I could probably stretch my savings out to six months or more if I had something part-time to augment it.

      Hang in there. This time next year, we will both look back on this period and be able to say that we got through it and came out better on the other side.

  27. Gaia*

    I manage a small group as part of a very large department. In my group I have Felicia. Felicia performs adequately but she has a terrible attitude. She complains about everything from being too busy (we’re all very busy) to the way customers speak to her (our customers are overall very polite and professional due to our industry), the meetings she attends (the group attends them to get a better understanding of where the company is going) the temperature at her desk (although we’ve offered her a fan she refuses to use it), the volume of her coworkers when they are talking to clients and customers. The list literally goes on and on. She is currently on a final warning for this onslaught of complaining because it is done outloud, at her desk, to her coworkers as opposed to more appropriate venues. It has an actual and real impact on the morale and productivity of the team.

    Well now we add a new wrinkle. She recently went on 2 weeks of PTO which is fine. However the night before she went she had a meeting in her last two hours. She should have put herself “away” so she wouldn’t be asked any more workflows but she didn’t and as such she had to reassign several at the end of her shift so they would be completed. When this is done, an email needs to be sent to the management group so we can track it and ensure it gets done. The email wasn’t sent. It seems like an attempt to hide the error of not putting herself away. We only know she did this because a manager noticed the workflows in her box at the end of Felicia’s shift and then suddenly gone (reassigned).

    Felicia comes back from PTO Monday and we have to discuss this but really? I’m at the end of my rope. She’s not a great performer, she complains about everything without offering any real solutions. She’s terrible at handling change. And now this. I guess I am just doubting whether this is really enough to fire someone? I’ve never been the one to have to make the decision before and I hesitate. Thoughts?

    1. fposte*

      She’s on a final warning and she blew something. You really think you couldn’t get somebody better, and that team morale wouldn’t rise if you did? Take a tip from AvonLady Barksdale’s boss above and manage her departure with great kindness, but do it.

      1. Gaia*

        Thank you. I think I really just needed to hear that it wasn’t an overreaction on my part. As I said, I’ve never had to be the one to make the call before (first management role and in more than 2 years everyone else has been great) so this is really tough.

    2. Dawn*

      “I guess I am just doubting whether this is really enough to fire someone?”

      YES. You have my permission. I promise that every single person at your company within earshot of Felicia is SICK of hearing her complain and is probably cleaning up after her “adequate” work in ways you might not be aware of. When you fire her, and you should, I bet that employee satisfaction and work output both increase.

      1. Gaia*

        Oh I know they are sick of it. I hear it regularly. It is why I fought to put her on a warning for it (my manager was concerned it would run afoul of laws that protect her right to discuss work conditions. But she isn’t discussing anything – she is ranting at people that don’t want to hear it).

        1. Dawn*

          There is a HUUUUUGE difference between “Gaia, I have serious concerns about [workplace thing that is illegal]” and being a Ranty Rantface who Rants all the time. Felicia is absolutely falling into the second category!

    3. Menacia*

      OMG, I worked with the male Felicia for 12 years…and I am the one who volunteered to clean out his cubicle when he was finally fired (for a security breach because he thought he was so slick). The crap that I found (that was not done, or was kept for no reason) was unbelievable. He was a complainer, tried to push off as much as possible to others, never took responsibility for anything, and saved things that had no reason to be saved (documentation on systems we sh*t-canned years ago, empty boxes for shipping things, floppy disks and CDs of old software). I am so pissed that he was allowed to stay (with many accommodations, I might add) for so long, He was even told to seek assistance for his “stress” so that he would stop complaining but he never did. The HR person who told us he was fired likened him to a malignancy in the organization, and I had to agree but why did it take so long? I was going to post a vent today, but hopefully this response will be enough to get it out (though I did not mean to hijack your post!).

      People like Felicia and Mr. Felicia really affect the morale of the team, if you have no already, please start documenting the issues so you have what you need to start the process.

      1. Gaia*

        The never taking responsibility thing is a big issue for me. She makes careless mistakes and when pointed out says “oh well, we’re all just human” Yea, but as a human you are capable of glancing over your work to make sure you typed it correctly.

        The more I think about it the more I am sure she needs to go. There is a small chance we won’t be allowed to replace her but even that would be better than keeping her.

        1. higheredrefugee*

          The latter part is the truth for particularly your high performers – they die a little inside every time they take on an extra project and see her skate by. Those team members will be happy to pick up the slack if you aren’t allowed to replace her just in partial gratitude for all the bad managers they’ve had in the past that have allowed poor performers to stay on the team.

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      Whoa. Those errors are pretty egregious. She had a last warning, but she still messed up. I would definitely fire her if I were in your shoes.

    6. kbeersosu*

      I’m going to respond to this in lyric form, thanks to the fabulous Kacey Musgraves…

      “And you… can’t win unless you lose
      You try to tell me you want happiness
      But you ain’t happy unless
      You’re miserable”

      Some people just love being miserable. Sounds like your Felicia to me!

  28. Lauren*

    This is Fiesta week (officially Old Spanish Days) in my town. It started Wednesday night and runs through Sunday. Lots of visitors and downtown gets crazy. Like many long-time locals, I avoid the area for these days but yesterday at work my department had a Fiesta feast. We all brought Mexican food to share. I customized the Salsa Especial (from Trader Joe’s) into three heat levels: mild, medium and hot. It was much appreciated. And I have leftovers!

    Mild: salsa + cilantro + some minced onion and garlic + a little lime juice and zest + salt

    Medium: salsa + nice amount of cilantr0 + nice amounts of minced onion and garlic + nice amounts of lime juice and zest + salt + a bit of de-seeded and de-stemmed jalapeno

    Hot: salsa + serious amount of cilantr0 + serious amounts of minced onion and garlic + good amounts of lime juice and zest + salt + a whole minced jalapeno (with stems and seeds)

    2. SophieChotek*

      Oo – yum! Sounds good. I’ll take some of those leftovers.
      (Actually my dad grows habanero peppers and other kinds and makes great home made salsa; he said he might make some this weekend — then I’ll get some!) His last batch was so great.

    3. LA Gaucho*

      Ole, ole, ole, ole!

      I miss Fiesta week! You’ve inspired me to definitely go next year :)

    4. Lemon Zinger*

      Darn it, now I want salsa! I usually have some in the work fridge for snacking (with cucumbers or celery) but I don’t have any today.

    5. Bex*

      Awwwwwww…. I miss Fiesta. I don’t miss finding confetti everywhere for the next three months!

  29. WS*

    My boss (who’s also one of the owners of the company) has been having major issues with our accountant/secretary. My office is adjacent to hers and every day I have to hear him loudly berate her about something new. Now he’s making me double-check her work, or look up tracking information for deliveries she was supposed to receive, and ask her about where missing items are. My boss then goes into her office five minutes after I give him the info to confront her about why she couldn’t have double-checked any of that herself.

    I’ll admit that she does make mistakes in her work sometimes and I’ve had it affect projects I’ve worked on in the past. But I don’t like being the one who has to monitor her work this way. She is now refusing to speak to me unless I have to ask her a direct question. I don’t need to make small-talk with her if she doesn’t want to, but I’m worried about her feelings towards me impacting my work relationship with her. (She is the only accountant with the company and is solely responsible for processing invoices and expense reports that I submit, and she does have a habit of prioritizing invoices submitted by people she likes.)

    I don’t know if I can get my boss to stop making me monitor her work, but is there any way to at least maintain a polite working relationship with this coworker while she’s giving me the cold shoulder? Or any way of making my requests for info less awkward in any way?

    1. fposte*

      Your workplace has a mistake-ridden accountant who sulks when called on her errors? Oh, boy.

      I think you can throw the problem out in the open with her as long as you’re not making it sound like she can’t be unhappy. “I know this is a change, Jane, but Bob’s asked for this new workflow; is there a way we can make it as smooth as possible and not lose our good working relationship? What’s the best way to do this for you?”

    2. Mike C.*

      Is the problem here that you want things to be nice between you and her or that you want her not to screw up or otherwise make you wait for your work to be finished?

      If it’s the latter, I would add your work to the list of things she missed. She shouldn’t be picking and choosing simply because she likes other people more.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yeah, I was feeling bad for her, until OP said that. Makes me wonder what else she is doing.

        I would just go with, “You know, if I had a choice here, we would not be doing this. But Boss has told me I have to do this. I know it’s not easy, but we both have to work and have an income. How can we make the best of this situation?”

    3. Observer*

      I think @fposte has good advice.

      You can’t get your boss to stop making you monitor her work. What you can do is be as polite and nice as you can about it. AND make sure that if she delays your work unreasonably that you document it and make sure that your boss knows. Don’t assume it’s going to happen, but if it does, keep your boss looped in and make sure she knows it.

      To be honest, though, your boss doesn’t sound like the best manager.

  30. anonanonanon*

    My situation at work is very frustrating. About a year ago, I applied for a manager role but was turned down because they said they wanted someone with more technical experience in our field. Well, the person they ended up hiring has NO EXPERIENCE in our field whatsoever and now a year into their job, they are still asking me questions on the basics, forwarding me emails with questions they cannot answer, and asking me to talk for them in meetings. You would think this would have been addressed by now, but it hasn’t. And I want to bring up my frustrations but it is hard because I want to do it professionally without sounding whiny and bitter. Thoughts?

    1. Rincat*

      Oof, that sucks. My advice is to think about what your desired outcome is – write it out and examine it. Think about ways you can realistically achieve that outcome in a professional manner. This helps me strategize when I have a situation like this, but I don’t know how to say something without sounding whiny. Often times, just saying out loud my desired outcome helps me deal with things internally and move past it.

      More specifically, I think I would talk to my boss again about moving into a manager role and what it would take, and try to leave out any mention of this other person. If your boss mentions them, you could throw something in there about them asking you questions all the time, but I would focus on you the most.

    2. Marcy*

      I think you should address it as a workload issue. You have your own job to do, and being bombared with manager-level questions and tasks is a drain on your ability to do your own job. Either the questions should be redirected to another resource, or your own workload needs to be correspondingly reduced. I guess the diplomatic way to ask this would be to ask your manager which you should prioritize on, your own workload, or answering other-manager’s questions.

      1. anonanonanon*

        It’s not even my workload, it’s more he was hired to do a job he can’t, while I could do it (obviously) but was turned down.

        1. Marcy*

          I know, but IMHO there’s no way of professionally saying “You should have hired me instead of that idiot.” First, it makes you sound petty and they will wonder if this guy is really that bad, or if you’re just complaining because of sour grapes. Second, you are essentially criticizing the decision of the person you’re talking to and people tend to be defensive of their decision, even if it is a bad decision. I think the best thing to do would be to (professionally) make the decision-maker feel the pain, which in this case means withdrawing your support and letting their unqualified hire fail.

          To the extent you can, you should also let this go emotionally. The decision has been made and the job has been filled. You should focus on rocking the job you have, so you can build yourself up for either another internal promotion, or a better job elsewhere. If it’s truly meant to be, this person will fail and they will realize you deserve the job and give it to you. If they don’t, you’re in a dysfunctional workplace and your energies would be better spent looking elsewhere.

        2. Marcy*

          I know that’s what frustrates you, but IMHO there is no professional way of saying you should have been hired instead of someone else. First, it sounds petty and will make your manager wonder if the guy is really all that bad, or if it’s just sour grapes on your part. Second, it might make your manager defensive, as people are usually emotionally invested in defending their decision, even if the decision produces bad results. The best you can do is show your manager why the decision was bad, by making him feel the professional pain. In this case, I think the easiest way to do that would be to withdraw support and let his new hire fail.

          To the extent you can, you should also try to create some emotional distance from this situation. It’s a sucky and frustrating situation, but the decision has been made and the position filled. It’s unlikely you can get it reversed. Focus now on kicking butt and getting the next promotion, or better yet, a better job at a new place. And who knows, maybe the guy will fail and your manager will see the light. To me the question would be why stay at a place that obviously doesn’t recognize your worth?

    3. Legalchef*

      This basically happened to me. I have no real advice other than sympathy. I started looking for a new job and am negotiating salary with a place that made me an offer that is really excited about me and wants to use my skills (and give me credit for those skills too).

    4. Rubyrose*

      Talk to your manager. Does she realize all of the requests you receive? Tell her it impacts your work and could you please tell them that from now on all requests for your time and knowledge have to be sent to your manager first, for her approval. If she signs onto this, make no exceptions.

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        This. After a year, surely this person would have been trained or something? The longer you cover for this person, the longer they are going to stay there… until they get another promotion based on the good work you’ve been doing for them.

    5. Mike C.*

      Let all those requests drop so that the other person has plenty of rope to hang themselves with. Then when everyone understands first hand what a screw-up this person is, they’ll also realize that you can do this competently and things should start happening.

      While you’re waiting for this to happen, start looking for work elsewhere. If you get a great offer, awesome. If you don’t, you’re still working towards your goal while you wait for things at work.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        You can say, “Person, I know you have relied on me for some of your questions, but it has been a year now, and I really need to focus on my own work. I think if you have any questions that you can’t find the answer to, you need to check with Boss, or Other Coworker(s).”

        I think you can let your boss know what you are doing and why. “I have been answering his emails/questions for a year now. He is [asking the same questions over and over; emailing me numerous times a day; whatever thing is applicable here] and so I am telling him to stop because I need to focus on my own work. I am just letting you know in case you hear it elsewhere.”

    6. Bex*

      You might want to consider looking for a manager role at another company. If you were passed over for a promotion and then they hired someone under-qualified, it doesn’t really bode well for long term career growth.

  31. An anonymous vent*

    TGIF. One of the executives had his assistant quit on the spot last week and I’m tired of listening to him complain about it. It’s his fault she quit. One of her children has a disease that mostly isn’t fatal but is very rare and only has a couple of hundred or so diagnosed people in the world. Every year there is a week long get together at a big hotel and conference center, where those with the disease and their families can go for support. There are also doctors and researchers who attend and give talks.

    Even though it’s not our busy season and her having that sams week off every year was part of the benefits in her job offer, he denied her the week off because he hates being at work when his assistant is not here and only wanted her to take days when he is also off. The retiring executive he replaced wasn’t like this. Attending this conference is her lifeline she always said and like many others her family saves all year for the trip. When he denied her she handed him her ID card and walked out in tears. I felt bad for her. Now the rest of the support staff have been directed to help him until a new assistant is hired. The man is insufferable. He is complaining about not being able to figure out dialing out on the phone (hit 9) or how to use an electric stapler. I am counting down the minutes until I can go home. C’mon 5:00!

    1. Rincat*

      Oh wow. He sounds like a big jerk. I hope the best for the admin! Sorry you have to work for this guy. :(

      1. An anonymous vent*

        Thank you :) The office manager that supervises the support staff is great, and he is getting fed up with the executive as well and has our backs. I’m hoping his former assistant will be okay. She did a great job and people both inside and outside the company took notice.

        (Also that should say the *same* week off every year. Thank you autocorrect)

        1. Lauren*

          Sounds horrible. He wants his assistant to only take time off when he does? That’s awful–and that’s leaving aside the now-ex’s assistant genuine issue. I hope that when interviews for the new opening happen that someone notifies the candidates that this may be part of the requirement if that guy isn’t reined in. Maybe put it in the ad: Successful candidate will not be allowed to choose their own vacation days, but will be taken only when boss is off too. Don’t event think of taking sick leave.

          Geesh.

    3. SL #2*

      Anyone reminded of the boss who wouldn’t let their employee take a day off for their college graduation?

      2. Pineapple Incident*

        Yep. Some people suck. This annual trip was included as part of the employee’s job benefits, and should have been regarded as highly important. It’s not as if it came as a surprise, since she takes the same week off every year and presumably has managed it well in the past. The boss sounds like an a**hole.

        1. An anonymous vent*

          Yeah she worked here for 6 years and took the same week off every year. It was part of her offer because she was very upfront about the reasons for the trip. She would have happily worked any other time including weekends and other holidays (if the office was open then) and never cared about when her other vacation and time off days were. It was literally never an issue before this.

          I knew the executive was horrible but now I see just how much. He’s upset because he mixed up the printer and the fax machine and no one told him (because he didn’t ask anyone). 5:00 can’t come fast enough.

          1. Jean*

            It would be grimly amusing to watch him make these mistakes if he were able to suffer quietly. Alas, he sounds like the type to throw a very loud tantrum when his Very Important Information keeps appearing in the printer tray down the hall instead landing in the fax output tray in Iowa (or Singapore or Oslo or wherever).

          2. Observer*

            I’m sorry, but I just have to laugh at the scene.

            What goes round comes round. And, if he really depends so heavily on an AA, it will probably happen sooner than later. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it if you are around.

      3. SophieChotek*

        Oh good reminder. Ugh.
        sorry – anonymous vent – and good thoughts go to ex-admin assistant…may she find a new job soon with a better, more compassionate boss

    4. EA*

      That’s absurd.

      There are a few terrible bosses here who just run through assistants. I always wonder when enough will be enough and someone will talk to them about being less insufferable. Probably never but I can hope. It is just hard being introduced to someone new knowing they wont last long.

      1. Pineapple Incident*

        My brother just started reporting to someone who has run off 10 assistants in under a year. He’s making more money, but the guy is horrifying to work for (i.e. no regard for the fact that his employees can’t just shift their hours to accommodate his every immediate need, because the powers that be have set limits on hours, etc)

        1. EA*

          I actually think one of the ways to tell who a person is, is how they treat their assistant. It is sort of like how they treat the waitstaff.

          1. Pineapple Incident*

            EXACTLY. People who are rude to those providing them a service are not to be trusted.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I think we are looking at, minimally, a runner up for AAM boss of the year. “Boss tells employee she cannot go to once a year event that helps her take care of her sick kid because HE doesn’t want to be alone in the office.” Boss dude has more than one problem going on if he can’t function on his own.

        I hope the employee finds a new and better job very soon.

  32. Fabulous*

    After all the hoopla of applying for targeted jobs for the past nearly 2 years, I’m nearly employed!! Been working a temp job (not anything NEAR what I got my Master’s in) but the person I’ve been covering for is coming back next week and they’re in talks to keep me on. I’ve been moved to a permanent desk, gave my salary requirements, and my supervisor is working on what she wants me to keep doing once this person returns. I could have benefits by this time next week!! Haven’t seen ANY benefits in three years. I’M SO CLOSE.

  33. Manders*

    I’m having a bout of anxiety/possible imposter syndrome about the amount of time I spend not actively producing things at work. I’ve gotten praise for the amount of work I get done regularly, and I’ve pitched and successfully completed several projects that my bosses seem pleased with, but I still feel like I’m not doing enough.

    Has anyone else felt this way? How did you deal with it? I’ve always been a speedy worker and I worry that I’ll look lazy for reading non-work-related websites even though I’m getting a lot done.

    1. UnCivilServant*

      I have a similar circumstance. The stuff I do well I get done blazingly quickly, and I worry I’m looking like a slacker when I’m writing a comment on the internet (like this one) despite being well ahead of schedule. Conversely I find it gets really bad when I’m trying to work on something where I have little existing knowledge and have to spend an inordinate amount of time researching and I start to worry about the repercussions from being ignorant about a major item that got dropped on my desk.

      The key is to pay attention to expecations (and sometimes to manage them proactively when the out of context problem arrives). So long as you meet or exceed them, the employer is going to be happy with your work.

    2. GOG11*

      I tend to feel this way a lot when I have down time. If you aren’t doing so already, you could let your boss know that you’re all caught up and see if they have anything in the pipeline or a coworker who you could help. During our slow period, I take nearly all my vacation time and that helps, too. Another thing that’s been helpful is realizing that not working to capacity all the time allows me more flexibility or gives me wiggle room in my schedule to respond to unanticipated/urgent requests.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I have a similar situation, and I counter it by spending my “free” time at work learning more about work-related stuff… not directly related to the actual work that gets done, but stuff that’s tangentially related, and it usually pays off in the long run (i.e., benefits my org). I also personally benefit by learning stuff that may be helpful to me personally and/or future orgs I work for.

    4. CM*

      I’ve read statistics saying that people are productive at work about 50-60% of the time. I forget the number, but the message was that most people do spend a significant amount of time not working while they’re at work. If everybody is happy with you, don’t beat yourself up over it. I used to worry about that too, and now I see unproductive times and procrastination as part of my process, the downtime that enables me to focus when I need it.

      2. Gina the Conqueror*

        now I see unproductive times and procrastination as part of my process, the downtime that enables me to focus when I need it.

        Oh my goodness, thank you for saying this! Never realized that those times are something I need–I’ve just been feeling guilty about them, even though I recognize (and have been told) that I’m a high performer. This has just given me an entirely new perspective…

    5. Anxious!*

      Damn, I feel like I could have written this.
      What’s worked for me is keeping a specific list of praise I get about my work. When I feel anxious, I take a look at this list and remember that people are happy with what I’m producing, even if I’m not on the go 100% of the time.

    6. Lemon Zinger*

      I felt that way when I started my current job. But I realized that what matters is how I perform those job tasks. Like you, I am really good at what I do. The fact that I don’t always have something to do is irrelevant. Anyway, I spend my down-time on self-development, so I’m not ashamed of not being busy 100% of the time.

    7. themmases*

      I have been feeling that way lately. Honestly, even though I have a ton to do I also somehow am able to get by with a ton of time doing not very much… And am still getting praised for my work.

      Just try to let it go. Maybe what you have going on right now is easy for fast *for you* and there’s no reason to feel guilty about that. Make sure your little, easy to forget tasks truly are done, throw in some work-related browsing, and don’t be too obvious about being on Facebook or whatever until things pick up. Eventually you’ll be back to a time when the work or workload is challenging you.

    8. em2mb*

      I’m with you, Manders. I hate having nothing to “show” for my day.

      But I’ve started telling myself that a lot of the little, seemingly off-task things I do on slow days – reading this website is one example, interacting with folks in the industry is another – actually pay dividends down the line, whether it’s making me a better coworker, or a better manager, or more connected with the folks we serve in my line of work.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Sometimes we are just our own worst critics.

      Instead of losing time in anxiety, why not use some time thinking about how to beef up your game? This gets harder the longer you have been at a job. Have you tried asking for something to do with your downtime? Can you create a special project, get permission for it and use your downtime to do that project? Maybe your solution is to just tell the boss that you read sites like AAM in your downtime to broaden your general knowledge about work topics. Once it’s out in the open, you don’t need to worry about it anymore.

  34. question about turning down job offers*

    So, I received two job offers this week. Job 1 called on Thurs and I asked to have the weekend to think it over. Job 2 called me this morning and I asked for a couple days to think it over.

    Depending on who I turn down, is it okay to say it’s because I received a better offer elsewhere? I like both jobs, but Job 1 offered a better salary and benefits and the commute is easier. I probably would have taken Job 2 if I didn’t get accepted to Job 1. I’ve never had to turn down a job offer before, so I’m not really sure what I should or shouldn’t say.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Just be polite and say you decided to go with another opportunity. If they ask, you can say that the positions were equal, but Job 1 offered you better compensation and an easier commute. If you’re feeling guilty– which you SHOULDN’T, but I get it– you can focus on the commute. But if they ask, I do think you should bring up the salary, since that might be something they encounter again with the next applicant.

      Oh, and congratulations!

      1. question about turning down job offers*

        Thanks! I have a feeling they won’t be surprised about the commute if I mention it, because Job 2 is located in an area of my city that’s pretty hard to get to on public transportation.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      First, congratulations on getting two good offers! Second, don’t overthink it. You can tell the job you’re turning down that you decided to take your job search in another direction, or you can say you received two offers and after weighing them both very carefully, you think the other offer is a better fit for you at this time. They may have a follow-up question or two, and you can decide if you feel comfortable answering them or not.

      1. question about turning down job offers*

        Thanks! This is exactly how I was looking to phrase it, so I’m going to get your comment in mind when I call the second job on Monday.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Yeah, I would avoid the words “better offer,” but you can definitely say you decided to take another job instead and then profusely thank them for offering the position (no need to burn any bridges).

    4. chickabiddy*

      I agree that you don’t have to give a reason, but if you would feel better doing so, focus on the commute rather than the compensation. They may try to bargain over salary, but they can’t pick up the office and move it closer.

  35. Amadeo*

    Maybe not really looking for answers unless someone’s got a brilliant one, possibly just commiseration.

    There’s a gentleman down the hall who, when’s here, likes to whistle. It’s right up there with humming and open mouthed chewing on my ‘drives me to irrational irritation’ scale, though I’m less likely to either explode or flee the room as I am with the chewing. Seems like it’d be overkill to poke my head in his office and ask him to knock it off because I don’t know him and no one else has either (and I’ve only been here a couple of months).

    I’m hoping that when my permanent desk comes in and I move around a wall into an office with my soon-to-be office roommate that I won’t be able to hear it as well. Headphones help, but not entirely. Do any of you guys have an office hummer or whistler that drives you crazy some days?

    1. NarrowDoorways*

      I could not stand the office whistler.

      It was easier for me, as I’d worked there much longer than him. I checked that it also irritated a few other coworkers. It did. So then every time he started after that, either I would knock and say, “Hey, could you stop whistling?” or someone else would.

      I stressed for ages about a long explanation that my headphones couldn’t bock out the noise blah blah, but untimely, he’s the one with the behavior that is being inflicted on others.

      This may not work for you if he’s been there longer. Maybe your other coworkers don’t mind.

      1. Charlotte Collins*

        I hate most whistling! Mainly because so few people are any good at it. Now I live with a whistler, but he can actually whistle real, recognizable tunes in a non-shrill manner and imitate bird calls. Most whistling is just terrible, though, so I sympathize…

        1. Aurion*

          Tangent: is whistling tunes really that rare?

          Now I’m wondering if I just live around/interact with exceptionally good whistlers, because everyone I know who can whistle (my father, coworkers, etc.) can whistle tunes–or at least, cohesively carry the tune for a few bars. I can whistle entire songs if you let me (but I don’t do it at work, because my coworkers would rightfully want to kill me).

          1. Charlotte Collins*

            I think whistling tunes well with a rich tone is pretty rare. (Most people aren’t that great of singers either, but mediocre singing isn’t as annoying as mediocre whistling. And I’m a really terrible singer and whistler, as in I can sometimes hit the right note or make a whistling noise, often by accident.)

    2. fposte*

      I think a fan might be really good to drown out a whistler, since it’s pretty high-frequency. Have you tried that?

      1. Adonday Veeah*

        Try this. My ears are such that whistling causes actual physical pain. People who whistle do so unconsciously, and you can’t expect them to stop for you because they just don’t realize they’re doing it. My live-in bf had to be retrained not to whistle every time he went out of town on business. They just can’t help themselves, so you have to fend for yourself. A fan helps.

    3. Mimmy*

      Definitely commiserating – not going on currently, but oh em gee, those same noises put me into BEC mode very quickly!

    4. Sadsack*

      There’s a person in another department across the hall from me who occasionally does a whistle that sounds like some kind of like bird call, maybe an owl or mourning dove. It isn’t real loud, but is actually kind of low and not very long. When I hear it, I become irrationally angry and would like to go over and smack him.

        1. Sadsack*

          Wow. I wonder, too. I haven’t paid enough attention to know if the sound is exactly the same every time. Whatever it is, I hate it!

          1. fposte*

            I think if it’s a text alert, you could poke your head in and ask for the volume to be lowered. That’s an adjustable machine noise, not a human noise.

    5. K130*

      Commiserating: we have one person, who happens to walk around a lot, who whistles, hums, sings along with his headphones, UGH!

    6. EddieSherbert*

      Can you (politely) close his door?

      I know that can be awkward but a nice smile and friendly “is it okay if I close your door? The whistling is a little distracting today, but I don’t want to ruin you disturb you!” might go a long way.

    7. Hashers*

      Whistling never used to bother me until I started my previous job which had a semi open floor plan. There were walls but they didn’t actually reach the the ceiling so there was no sound barrier. My dept shared the first floor with the campus police department and there was one officer who would whistle loudly literally all day every day that he was on duty. He would whistle Christmas music, TV show themes, anything you can think of for seven hours a day and he wouldn’t stop even after receiving complaints. Now I’m super sensitive to whistling and it irritates the crap out of me.

      1. Amadeo*

        I’m surprised he wasn’t ganged up on and shoved into a closet if he actually had complaints and wouldn’t knock it off.

    8. Lemon Zinger*

      Nobody in my office does that, thank goodness. But one of my coworkers is REALLY bad at phone calls– he’s awkward and it’s cringeworthy sometimes. I hate when he makes phone calls, I really really do. He desperately needs coaching, but it’s not my place. His supervisor is probably aware of it, though.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      “Excuse me, I don’t know if you realize but the acoustics in this place are weird. Your whistling carries and it sounds really loud. If everyone whistled or hummed here, no one would be able to concentrate. Can you refrain from whistling?”

      If you are good at humor there is a joke in here some where about “whistling while you work”. But I can’t find it right now.

  36. Embarrassed*

    How can I excuse myself to go to the bathroom with my male boss???

    Yesterday was a horrific day… my period was late and arrived with a vengeance. It was about 3pm and my magical period poop was ready to ruin my day, it was so bad that I kept on shuffling in my seat and all I could do was think how I could make it until 5pm. We are part of a large building and there is a public washroom right down the hall – but after already using my breaks I had no reason to ask permission to leave the office and rush to the bathroom.

    Using our washroom was not an option – it is a tiny single toilet room where you can hear/smell everything from our desk area. The toilet can also barely flush a piece of toilet paper most days so I wasn’t about to go storming in and plug it. To try and relieve the pressure I did slip in to remove my menstrual cup and replace it with a tampon, and then frantically had to find a way to re-flush only once to hide the bloody crime scene I created in the toilet.

    I then returned to my desk and continued to shift about, barely able to focus on the work in front of me. I was genuinely concerned I was going to have an accident in my pants but was still too mortified to reveal to my boss that I wanted to use the public washroom instead of ours – it’d be fairly obvious what I was going to be doing and he is the type that would bring it up and joke about it.

    I made it to 5pm and then had to shamefully exit the public washroom and run before anyone realized it was me who plugged one of the toilets!

    I don’t know if there was a simple way I could’ve brought it up to my boss that I needed to use the other washroom (would’ve worked if he had been using ours at the time) or if there was a good cover up I could’ve used as to why I needed to suddenly exit the office and return 5 minutes later… smokers could’ve easily covered this up.

    If it were just me and my female supervisor I would’ve had no problem giving her a look and explaining that I needed the other washroom… but she had left early. Even if she’d been there I could’ve discreetly asked her and she would’ve covered and said she asked me to deliver an envelope to another office. But with him, I don’t know how I can possibly have a conversation like that.

    I know ‘everyone poops’ but males are exempt from the hormonal changes that cause unpleasant special menstrual poops!

    1. NarrowDoorways*

      Why in the world do you need to ask permission to go to the restroom? Is he required to cover you? As in, your position requires someone always being on hand?

      Why can’t you just say, “Excuse me,” and leave? Though honestly most adults just…go.

      When I supervised last year, we hired someone right out of high school who’d always stop me to tell me she was going to the restroom. My response was literally always something like, “Ok… I’m not sure why you’re telling me. You can just go…” TMI.

      1. Lemon Zinger*

        That is so annoying!

        One of my friends has a crazy manager who times their bathroom breaks. Pretty sure she has to ask for permission to use the restroom too. She’s looking for another job.

    2. What's Going On? (Hey Hey Hey)*

      You just need to suck it up, be matter of fact, and ask your boss to use the other restroom. I know it’s embarrassing, and it sounds like he might be a bit immature if you think he’d joke about it, but that’s on him, not on you. If you refuse to let him get a rise out of you or act like it’s embarrassing, I suspect most people would back off. And beside, think how much more embarrassing it would be if you’d made a mess, right?

      1. 2 Cents*

        And if he starts making fun of you (immature, much? what a jerk), then either shut it down with: “My bathroom habits are not up for discussion” or march down to HR.* And if he’s married to a woman or has daughters, that’s another way to be like “Just going through what half the population does. Don’t really see how it’s funny.”

        *I assume.

    3. Murphy*

      Is your office so strict that you have to ask permission to get up? I would say just get up and go. Unless you’re gone for a really long time, or you’re doing it a lot, I don’t know why there would be an issue. If you really need a reason, can you say that you’re stretching your legs?

      1. Sadsack*

        Yeah, I don’t understand either. I would just go and if he asks if there is something wrong with the nearby bathroom, just say no, and if he directly asks why you had to go to the other room, just say personal reasons. If he has a bran in his head, I think he’ll drop it at that point.

        1. misspiggy*

          Or even say yes, that bathroom is not appropriate for my needs. Anyone asking a question like that would either be sincerely concerned about the in-office toilet or a jerk, so either way give them a straight answer.

    4. zora.dee*

      My head is exploding over the idea that you have to ask permission to go to the restroom. Unless it’s about asking someone to cover the phones or something while you are out. But even in that case, you should only need to say “I have to step out to the restroom, I’ll be right back” and leave. If they ask questions or try to argue, THAT IS RIDICULOUS. These things are not a matter of debate, it’s something people need to do is go to the bathroom.

      And if he does have any kind of reaction, then I second this from 2 cents:
      “My bathroom habits are not up for discussion” or march down to HR.

      HR, or whoever is his supervisor/head of the company, etc. It is completely inappropriate to make fun of someone’s bathroom needs or tell them they aren’t allowed to go.

    5. Eddit Turr*

      I also think it’s strange that you have to specifically ask to use the restroom. Assuming that it really is necessary to explain why you’re getting up and walking out, may I suggest:

      – I need to get something from my car
      – I’m going to go grab a coffee
      – I need to stretch my legs
      – I’ll be right back

    6. The IT Manager*

      I think the problem is that the LW felt the need to use the bathroom OUTSIDE of the office for her “magical period poop” so she would have to explain why she left the office rather than use the restroom inside the office

      OTOH LW, you’re having A LOT of shame and embarrassment related to bodily functions and you need to work on getting over that. Be matter of fact: “I’m going to step out and use the public restroom.” And if he makes a jokes, just convey through a look or statement that you don’t want to discuss your bathroom habits.

      1. chickabiddy*

        I get that, but it is still inappropriate for the boss to question why she prefers one bathroom over another. If he does ask, I would look straight at him and say “Do you really want to know? Because I will tell you exactly why.”

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Can you talk to your female boss and ask her to talk to him? I would have no problem doing this for anyone- a cohort or subordinate.

      Can you tell him that you are going to start using the public bathroom all the time because you prefer it over the bathroom you have near you?

      I suspect that the real problem is his jokes. I am not sure what kind of jokes you expect but here’s some different answers you might be able to use:

      “Oh, boss, let’s not go there, okay?”

      “Boss, I like working for you but, please, let’s not make jokes about my bathroom habits. It’s a little personal, don’t you think?”

      “Boss, jokes about me and the bathroom are a little too much. Please stop.”

      “Boss, I asked you not to make personal jokes about my bathroom habits. I really meant that.”

      “Boss, I asked you not to make jokes about my bathroom trips. Now I am asking again. Please do not make jokes about my bathroom trips.”

      If this does not fit with what you expect him to say, toss us a couple things you’d expect to hear and we will help you come up with things to say to stop him.

  37. Raine*

    Quick Question

    I’m working an entry level RA job at a local business. When I applied to the position it was listed as full time permanent. However when I was offered the job the recruiter told me that the position had been changed to a six month contract position and asked me if I was still interested in accepting it. I said yes since if nothing else it would be good on a resume and a steady paycheck which I needed.

    Shortly after I was hired my manager told me the job was temp to perm, so after my six month contract was over the company would hire me on as a permanent full time employee. The was about three months ago but recently one of my coworkers, not a manager but still someone above me in the chain of command, has been hinting very indirectly that I shouldn’t get my hopes up about that. My performance has been good, I haven’t made any major errors, and I recently had someone I collaborated on a project with write my manager an effusive letter of praise telling her I had done an exceptional job. By all accounts I have done nothing to jeopardize this position but now I’m paranoid something has changed. My manager hasn’t said anything one way or the other about this.

    How do I ask if the plan has changed without coming across as insecure? She said I was going to be hired, and she hasn’t told me otherwise, and I feel like that should be enough. But at the same time now I’m really stressed about this.

    1. LadyKelvin*

      You could approach the conversation with your boss with the framing as “Hey, I was just wondering what you thought the chances of my position becoming permanent would be. As there are only 3 months left in my contract I’d like to have an idea of whether there was any possibility of me staying longer or if I should start applying to jobs for when I’m done.” But really you should already be looking around for new jobs since you only have 3 months guaranteed.

    2. fposte*

      That was three months ago, things change, and it never hurts to ask if you’re doing what you need to be doing. “I just wanted to check with you on the job’s conversion to permanent in three months–is that still in the plans, and is there anything I should work on to make sure I’m eligible for the transition?”

  38. What's Going On? (Hey Hey Hey)*

    I work for a company that provides contract employees to do remote computer work for other companies. We work out of a central office for clients all over the country. When I started about a year ago, each project had a manager to coordinate with the client, oversee time sheets, and so on. The managers were also contract employees but were clearly separated from the rest of us.

    In the last few months, however, I’m increasingly seeing projects assigned to remote managers who assign one or more employees to be their “point person” on the project. In reality, this means the employee is in charge of client communication, time sheets, and so on, since the remote people might be managing a dozen projects and have no idea what’s actually going on in any of them.

    This situation already made me pretty uncomfortable, but then this morning it stepped up a notch: I’m currently the unofficial assistant-manager for a project under another “employee-manager”. We are hourly and subject to overtime at 48 hours/week. One of our employees always hits this early Friday morning and is gone by 9 or 9:30. This morning, however, he said “he was a little behind” so he was working off the clock for a full half an hour.

    I thought the employee-manager was going to tell him to go home, but instead he laughed and said he was considering coming in this weekend to work for free. Earlier this week, he was assigned to oversee a second project, with a tight deadline coming up, and I know he’s going to hit 48 hours today but some of his team is coming in over the weekend. Obviously, overtime has not been approved. I told him (in private) that I was very uncomfortable with this situation, but he seemed to just shrug and laugh it off, like “what are you gonna do?”

    To make things worse, one of the other employees heard this and said “so this is what it takes to be a manager, huh?” I like this group of people but I’m so deeply uncomfortable with the situation I don’t know what to do. I could easily find somewhere else to do similar work (and almost certainly for more money), but frankly it’s a stopgap while I interview for permanent employment and I’m not sure I want to mix things up. Plus it’s nice to have management experience for my resume. Our “real” management is constantly traveling and hasn’t been onsite all week. What should I do?

    1. Pineapple Incident*

      Where are you guys and why do you only hit overtime at 48 hours a week??? That’s a very high threshold that depending on which country/locality you’re in may not be at all legal. Also, if you’re all hourly NO ONE should be working off the clock- that’s illegal no matter where you are. Is there a way to email your “real” management about your concerns with this? You really should do it soon, because things like this have an unfortunate way of becoming “accepted practice” way quicker than they should despite being totally despicable. If you can’t contact your manager, you should either go higher above them about the issues with this workflow arrangement or complain to your state/national/whatever locality applies labor board that your company is advocating for people to work off the clock.

      1. What's Going On? (Hey Hey Hey)*

        Believe me, I’m not thrilled with the 48 hours thing, but I’ve done a significant amount of research (including discussing it with a couple of attorney family members) and my company does appear to be legally set up in such that federal overtime law does not apply. 48 hours is state law, which, yes, is quite stingy.

        I think I do need to talk to someone higher up about this, but I’m mainly worried about getting my coworker/manager in trouble for this. That said, I’m also worried that part of the reason he’s been given so much responsibility is that he doesn’t stand up for himself or rock the boat and that I’ll be shooting myself in the foot if I try and speak up.

        1. Pineapple Incident*

          Sorry I’m so late with a response to this, but if you are worried about the finger pointing back at you there is usually an anonymous comment/complaint process at the labor board.

  39. Master Bean Counter*

    How do you do self evaluation when you’ve been on the short a short time and you’ve received no feed back at all yet? No goals have been set, not much direction has been given. How do you rate yourself? Especially when you know there is a definite mismatch in your work style and your boss’s work style.

    Thanks!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I think you just give your best guess and keep it short. I would assume this is just a formality that’s in place for everyone, so your boss (if she is reasonable) should expect it to be not too comprehensive, given your short time there so far.

    2. SophieChotek*

      Perhaps can you still evaluate how well you’ve learned/picked up processes/procedures at new job? (each place has its own quirks, etc.)

      Even if you have no set goals/directions, are there projects you are working on? Can you discuss how they are going, your ongoing input/accomplishments with that ongoing project? [Still working on Big Project, but have identified we need to do A, B, C, D, and E, and I have a good start on A and B?]

      Do you interact with customers/clients? Can you discuss good relations/establishing a rapport with them? Or with internal colleagues?

      Taking on extra learning/self-training, with no direction as of yet? Since I haven’t had much direction, but my job will focus on X, Y, and Z, I’ve been reading/doing these online tutorials/practice writing press releases because they align with my main job in ways X and Z…

  40. Performance Management*

    Hello All! I am attempting to put together a more effective performance management system in place than the one we are currently using. We are a small-ish (25 people) manufacturing type company, so most of our supervisors’ and managers time and attention is focused on getting product out the door, so they don’t necessarily see the value of completing performance reviews in a timely and effective manner (I see a lot of one sentence responses). Right now, each job duty is evaluated on a scale of 1-7. It seems to be cumbersome and not resulting in a whole lot of long term change and goal setting is lacking. I’ve been doing some research online, and haven’t found anything concrete that looks like it would work. If anyone has a system they are using that they feel is working well, I would love to hear about it! The more creative the better.

    3. Karo*

      I was reading a blog where someone (who I otherwise respect) was railing against it because now, since they can’t ask how much the person makes, they have to propose a salary range and ask if it’ll work! How dare they!

      Definitely dropped my respect level for him down a few notches.

    5. Rebecca*

      I’m so glad you mentioned this! I searched for “Massachusetts” before posting the same question :) I read about it on EHRL this morning. I wish it would go into effect more quickly. January 2018 is a long time off!

      I just applied to a job online a few weeks ago (waiting impatiently!!) and this was a required field…starting and ending wages. On the flip side, the employer gave zero indication of what the job pays, so I could be wasting my time, and worse, they could look at my wages and say “hey, we can offer her what she’s making now and save a ton of money. Woot!!”

      I really wish employers would have to disclose a wage range of some sort. For instance, I saw a job that looked perfect for me, and thankfully it was in a county office so the wage structure was public. I found out it paid $10.14/hour and health insurance was approximately $400/month employee contribution. Yikes! So glad I knew people who worked in similar jobs so they could tell me what the health insurance rates were!

    7. Lemon Zinger*

      YASSSS! I’m so excited that this is a thing! Now I hope it spreads across the country, though it’s unlikely to make it to my state. :/

    8. Dynamic Beige*

      Recruiters often start out conversations with people by asking about their current salary. It’s not illogical–why pursue someone when the salary you’re offering is $10,000 less than the person’s current salary.

      Given some of the letters here with people dealing with recruiters… that doesn’t appear to be a metric that phases some of them in pursuit of a commission.

      Also, wouldn’t someone looking to change jobs be wanting more salary? I mean, seriously, I would bet 99.999% of job seekers are looking for a better wage than the one they are currently making — or benefits that make up the difference.

      Every once and a while I look at job ads not because I’m looking but you never know… and it never ceases to amaze me that the job will say everything they want, except the salary range. So you want 5+ years of experience, a B.A., competence in a half dozen different programs in different mediums but you’re not willing to tell me if this is worth my while to apply to? It’s like if I saw an ad in the paper for a car that came with everything, so I rushed down to the dealer only to find out it was way out of my price range. And sure, there’s always those people who think that the rules don’t apply to them and they’re so awesome that your advertised range will be immediately tossed out when they state their requirements but sheesh… is it really that hard to put down what you expect to pay? Everyone knows that you’ve already figured out the budget you can stay within or you wouldn’t be hiring.

      2. Snazzy Hat*

        I love (hate?) the pointlessness of this question, considering my job history. Except for my two most recent jobs, it is currently illegal in this state to pay me as little as I made at my previous jobs (which had legal rates back then, before anyone gasps).

    9. em2mb*

      NPR had what I thought was a good discussion of the law last night on All Things Considered. I thought it sounded real cool even before they started talking about how it could help women who’ve accepted lower pay from being locked into always making less because that first job salary negotiation didn’t go well. So glad to see progress being made!

    10. Friday Brain All Week Long*

      That is so awesome. I wish we had it everywhere. I’m in CA and I was contacted by a recruiter for a job I’m interested in. She asked what I make now and I said the range I’m looking for to move. Then she asked again and I asked how it’s relevant, as I would be switching from a dept with a compensation structure to one without. She got a little flustered, asked a THIRD time, and so finally I told her. Whatever.

      Later on, she asked me what I made at a job I held 15 years ago. Good lord lady, do you want me to present-value that for you?

  42. A Girl Has No Name*

    I have a non-work related question. Where or when can I post it? My question is about a problem I’m having with my condo association but askamanager is the only advice blog I really read.

    5. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      There is a non-work related open post on the weekends. You could also try captainawkward.com or boards specifically for housing advice.

  43. DevAssist*

    I work for a teapot painting academy enrolling students. Since it is the start of August, we have been swamped by calls and visits from parents. I’m sorry for complaining, but I need a place to vent: why are people blunt in their emails and on the phone?!? I work in a customer service position, and whenever I have to call or email a parent, they respond with one word answers as if I’m supposed to know their every thought and feeling. I don’t mean examples like:

    “Hello, I can see that you have not updated your application for a while. Would you like us to withdraw your application?”
    “No.”

    I’m talking about things like:

    “Hello, Thank you for expressing interest in our teapot program! In order to enroll, we will need X, Y, and X. Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.”
    “Don’t have X”
    “Hello, thank you for your reply! If you do not have X, you can request it or an exemption by doing A, B, C. I’d be happy to assist you over the phone as well, if that would be your preferred communication.”
    “Can’t.”

    Like…??? Okay??? No manners, not asking a question about how to proceed. Just an assumptive attitude that I should figure it out.

    Come on, people! I’m a person. Please be kind.

    1. Megs*

      Ug, that really sucks and drives me bonkers. I’m not sure what these people hope to accomplish, either – don’t they WANT to get into your program?

      1. DevAssist*

        They do! But they think our program is much easier to get into than it is (which is still, honestly, not very hard).

        Parents will also try to circumvent our enrollment process by emailing our CEO directly. If they do that, then the CEO will try to force our process (which can take a week or so) to happen in single day.

        I’m honestly in a catch-all position where everyone is demanding. I’m desperately looking for new work, but the pay is significantly better than most jobs that are hiring (that would make me happier and less inclined to walk off a cliff)

        1. Megs*

          Aw man, your CEO is only encouraging that BS?! That’s absurd. Good luck with the job search (and at least you’re well compensated in the mean time)!

          1. DevAssist*

            Thanks! My current pay isn’t awesome, but it is more than what most opportunities around me are offering.

            Yeah, our CEO is a very kind guy, but is kind of oblivious to how demanding some of our work can be.

            I really do love some of my coworkers; it’s just the politics of education, the hierarchy of staff, and the entitlement of parents is pretty morale-crushing.

            1. Library Director*

              The CEO may be kind, but it’s not really nice to employees or those willing to go through the process to try and push someone through. I can feel your pain. I just sent an document about a program. The email said, ‘All information is in the document.’ Someone emailed back asking, “When is the program?” Arghhhh! I went back and checked. Yes, all the info was there.

    2. CM*

      That’s obnoxious, and the answer is probably that they can get away with it and communicating with you is low on their priority list. Which doesn’t help your frustration.

      Do you have any power in this situation? Is it your job to be as helpful and accommodating as possible to the parents, or would it be possible for you to say in response to “Don’t have X,” “We will not be able to enroll your child without X. Please contact me if you need assistance.” Or in response to “Can’t,” “Since you are not able to meet the enrollment requirements, I will withdraw your application. Thanks for your interest in the Academy.”

      If not… look at it as an opportunity for character-building?

      1. Dot Warner*

        I like this suggestion. Be helpful and kind, but enforce the rules. For example:

        “Hello, I can see that you have not updated your application for a while. Would you like us to withdraw your application?”
        “No.”
        “OK, I will keep your application on file. Please note that the next session starts on [date] and if your application is not complete by [date], we will not be able to enroll you that session.”

        You could also add something about having limited space in the session and places are assigned on a first-come, first-served basis, so if they want to be sure they have a space it would be prudent to finish their application before the deadline.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      I work in higher ed, and the students I work with are the WORST. I got an email recently: “Hello I would like to know the next steps for the scholarship qualification”

      What scholarship? What are you talking about? UGHHHHHH.

      Students are not being taught email etiquette anymore. They treat it like texting and it drives me bonkers.

      2. Jennifer*

        That’s a lot more coherent than I have gotten in e-mails. And usually it’s from people with like, advanced science degrees.

    4. Jennifer*

      You’re doing customer service–that means you’re not a person.

      Don’t take it personally if someone can’t put in extra words to make it sound friendlier. Some people just aren’t good at written communications.

    5. higheredrefugee*

      I recently left highered (huh, hence the screen name) and since then I run a website where users can use a LiveChat feature when they can’t find the information they need on our website. I am amazed at how often I asked on that if I am a “real person.” I wonder if that mentality of “I’m only talking to a computer” is leaking over to phone/in-person? Or are people just so accustomed to doing everything they want, how they want, in the time period they want, they actually get results with one-word obstinancy?

      Sorry your CEO is like that – sadly, no one in education seems to have any management or org theory skills…. My best boss in those years was an accountant before becoming a lawyer for goodness sake! Good luck!

  44. gorgon*

    I just got my first job as a legal assistant, making $15/hour. I have admin work experience but none in law, so this wage is about what I expected to be making in my first legal job.

    When I was still searching, I was astonished by how many legal assistant jobs required a bachelors degree, 2-3 years of relevant legal experience, and a paralegal degree/certificate, yet only offered $12/hour. That’s what you pay someone with zero experience! That’s not the wage of someone with relevant experience AND multiple degrees. I don’t know what the hell these law firms are thinking, and I’m wary of ever applying for a job at these places in the future, even if I do see a job offering an acceptable wage.

    I’ve been job-searching on-and-off for two years, and I see the same firms posting the same $12/hour jobs every few months. These aren’t large firms, so I don’t think they are hiring for multiple positions. I think they just struggle to keep anyone with that much experience in such a low-paying job. If I give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe the reason the positions are always open is because they keep promoting people. But I kind of doubt it. I think they are trying to get experience without paying for experience.

    I just find the whole thing really frustrating. Legal assistants and paralegals are so integral to a law firm that it’s disheartening to see their years of work experience and education devalued so much. Not at every firm of course, but enough.

    1. Megs*

      You’re absolutely right that good legal assistants and paralegals are absolutely vital to a law practice, and I suspect you’re right, too, that these firms trying to get the cheapest possible option are probably not managing to retain people, or are getting people so incompetent they get fired. I don’t know why you would mess around with that kind of thing – having a legal assistant or paralegal screw something up can lead to sanctions or professional discipline as easy as anything else.

    2. K130*

      I’m a career admin and I find this sort of thing in any admin related job. I think it relates to so many people seeing administrative assistant as a stepping stone, i.e. “working your way up from the mail room”. I’ve worked plenty of places where they have previously had a passable clerical person and are very surprised by what a good admin can get done.

    3. MsMaryMary*

      IANAL, or a paralegal, or a legal assistant, but given that there are a lot fewer legal jobs of any kind these days, I think it’s a supply and demand thing. There are inexperienced lawyers willing to do paralegal work, paralegals who take admin roles, and fewer jobs for everyone.

    4. Slippy*

      The legal field is still super-saturated and anything is better than nothing, especially for new entrants. My guess is they have a steady stream of people that work there just long enough to get a better job elsewhere and that doesn’t bother the company one bit as long as the people are cheap; sort of like the Walmart of the legal fields.

    5. voluptuousfire*

      I once saw a law firm looking for an experienced (!) legal assistant, in Manhattan, in NYC, for $6.00 an hour. Yes, you read that correctly. This was before the federal min wage went up to $7.25. They would not budge; the ad stated that was the set in stone rate. I showed it to my best friend who was a legal assistant and she was insulted.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        It would have been interesting to see how many applicants they got and the quality of the applicant.

    6. higheredrefugee*

      As an attorney that has worked across the country, this will vary widely depending on location. Supply and demand/loyalty expectations matter a lot to attorneys. If they’ve had a bad run of folks leaving as soon as they get good, they’ll keep it low. Also, for the smaller private practices, many of the lawyers are willing to foot the bill for a much more significant portion of your health insurance than other similar small employers, which you need to factor into making $15/hour.

      That said, once you get going, if you can truly quantify your worth, and how much time/energy/billable you save your attorneys, there can be more money to be made for reasonable attorneys. I know paralegals/legal assistants that make more than the entry-level attorneys at mid-size firms because they’ve built their skills and continue to do so, and take so much of the running of the business off the attorneys’ hands (as in stuff the attorney can’t bill a client for directly).

  45. UrbanGardener*

    I’m going through a really odd time at work right now. My boss could have had her own entry on this site. She was a paranoid, micromanaging control freak who did not trust us to do our jobs. Insisted on being copied on all emails, rewriting everything we wrote, and then complained she didn’t get paid nearly enough for the amount of work she did. She played favorites and was really obvious about it.

    She once told me she was too old to change who she was, so I was required to change who I was so we could work together more successfully. She didn’t believe there should be no surprises on performance reviews – she always had to throw in at least 2 to throw you off your game and have something to mark down against you. If you did something she didn’t like 6 months ago, she wouldn’t tell you. She’d hold onto it until review time.

    Luckily I realize pretty soon after starting my job that she was completely unhinged and would never be happy with me, so I stopped caring about her opinion, which also drove her crazy. She wanted you to fall all over yourself to try and please her (not that you’d ever be successful) and I’m smart enough to realize that.

    She died recently.

    So, while I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, not even her, I’m feeling relieved I don’t have to work for her anymore. And either potential colleague who would take over is a vast improvement – they all like me and think I do a great job, and aren’t unhinged.

    However, my one colleague, who was the boss’ favorite, is melting down. I know her experience with my boss was vastly different from mine, and I’m trying to be kind. But she did something I think she could be fired for.

    A number of years ago, (before I started working here) there was a person who thought they should be made head of the department (they had been here nearly 25 years), but my boss was instead. And when my boss felt challenges to her authority, she had to grind that person into the dust. So she started nit-picking everything this other person did until she had enough to get them fired. The other person lawyered up, arguing they were unjustly fired, and got severance and to remain on the generous company insurance plan.

    My colleague confesses to me that my boss asked her to throw away all personnel files related to this person. And my colleague did. I do not know what the hell she was thinking, other than trying to protect my boss’ reputation, and my boss trying to keep control of everything even after death. But that’s company property! It’s not OK to throw them out, right?

    My colleague forgot that I have a key to the shredder bin. So I went dumpster diving for them (they don’t actually get shredded until they get to the truck, so it’s not like I had to tape them together spy movie style). I luckily found them, because it had been a few weeks since the shredder guy showed up.

    So I looked at them just to confirm what was relevant and not. Performance reviews (which HR would have a copy of) and notes mostly. But also files for people who are still working here. I hid them in my desk. If you don’t want people to see you being awful to others, stop being awful, is my theory.

    I haven’t told any of my colleagues yet. I’m going to tell the one I trust the most when he gets back from vacation. I don’t want her to get fired, we need her for certain projects, and I did fix the immediate problem, but she is incapable of being rational where our boss is concerned right now. She has talked about leaving because she wouldn’t find either of the new potential bosses “inspiring”, so if she does I will give the files to whoever the new boss is.

    1. J.B.*

      What do you plan to do with this information? Let this one go. If the person needs to be fired for actions going forward she will show it. Otherwise what’s done is done.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This is why it’s so important to get out of a toxic environment. The behaviors just get further and further away from professional/normal behaviors.

        At some point it stops being about the toxic employee and shifts to being about a problem that is systemic through out the company. Nasty boss went unchecked for years. Why. Well, in part because upper management was asleep at the switch.

    2. Muriel Heslop*

      Wow.

      I work in education, and I would be required by law to immediately report something like this. (Student files, especially special education ones, are subject to a lot of legal restriction.) So that colors my advice which is: report it immediately. Unless your colleague comes back Monday. I really think the longer you hold on to the files, the worse it seems. And did you really fix the immediate problem? Your co-worker destroyed files (theoretically) and is still working there.

      Good luck! Keep us posted on how this plays out.

    3. Ella*

      I wouldn’t hide files in your desk, nor would I give them to a new hire. If you did this to me, and I was your new boss, I would think you were involved in some sort of weird drama, and it would negatively impact my perception of you, right off the bat. I would either mention to your colleague that threw them away that you don’t think it’s OK to throw those files away, so you’ve replaced them, but if she removes them again, you’ll tell HR, or I’d go to HR directly. Or — third option– just let it go. Why do old personnel files from before you started working there matter, other than to negatively color people’s impression of your boss or coworker?

      1. UrbanGardener*

        Well, the drama already happened. Everyone else in the department lived through it, and knows about it. Honestly, given the way she acted about her image and perception, I’m sure this was more about preventing her new boss (just started managing her in the last year) from seeing anything about it if new boss wanted to go through her files for some reason, or trying to wipe all memories about former colleague out of the company memory. I don’t want to dox myself so I won’t go more into what, but she was effectively trying to wipe all memories of former colleague for years. And this is company property, and I don’t think it should be discarded. My plan was actually to slip the files back into the file drawer, not hand them to the new boss.

        1. UrbanGardener*

          Sorry, in case i wasn’t clear, new boss would be promoted from within, so it would be someone who already knows about everything and can make their own decision whether to keep or toss old files.

        2. Amtelope*

          Why does it matter whether your boss has this file of information about someone who left the company years ago? How do you think this information would benefit your boss?

        3. Menacia*

          I am missing how you think it will help to put those files back if they are full of the rantings of an unstable, controlling person? Why give new boss any information to sway them from forming their own opinions of those who work for them? I think this is something you don’t want to be involved in, get rid of the files before anyone knows you have them.

    4. Amtelope*

      Why is any of this your problem? Shredding the files is weird, but it sounds like the person they refer to already has a legal settlement with the company. They’re not pursuing a lawsuit that they might need these files for. And your old boss is dead, so there’s no question of these files being relevant to whether she’s promoted or rehired at your company.

      You’ve put yourself in an uncomfortable situation now that you have these files — you can’t stick them back in the shredder without making yourself responsible for destroying them, which you could get in trouble for. In your place, I’d probably hand them back to your colleague, tell her that you don’t think these should be shredded, and then try not to care what she does with the files after that. Unless maintaining these files is your job, it’s not worth getting involved in this.

      1. UrbanGardener*

        My colleague made it into my problem by telling me what she did. Now, if I’d left them in the shredder, I’d be stuck in the position of lying if anyone ever asks me if I know why there no files on this person. Because I do know why there are no files.

        this is about my boss trying to still exert control over the job from her grave. And this is a decision the new manager should get to make, in my opinion.

        1. Amtelope*

          Well, if your coworker had shredded the files, and you’d been asked why there were no files, you’d say “Coworker shredded them.” And then she’d get to explain that decision. I don’t think anyone would have said “why didn’t you rummage through the shredder to try to get the files back?”

          The files are not symbols of whether your dead boss wins or loses her battle to control your office from beyond the grave. They’re just files on an employee who hasn’t worked there for years, and frankly it doesn’t sound like anyone’s likely to ever need to look at them again, whether they’re shredded or not. I’d either put them back where they were or hand them back to Coworker and try to emotionally disengage from their fate. This isn’t worth the amount of emotional energy you’re putting into it.

    5. Mustache Cat*

      Wow.

      This is a lot of drama. Coming from all sides, as I see it.

      I’m not sure what to say, but I’d love to be kept updated on the situation. By the way, you’re not doing yourself any favors by keeping the shredded documents like this. Figure out what to do with it, whether handing it off to HR (not sure I would reveal that I went dumpster diving for confidential information, though. That would be super worrying to me if I were HR) or throw it back in the trash. But don’t keep it in your desk.

      1. Bex*

        Agree with all of this. Personally, I would turn it over to HR immediately and frame the dumpster diving as “I wanted to make sure this actually happened before I reported it.” Then back the hell off… if I was managing a team like this I would be tempted to just clean house, since that’s a lot of shady stuff and frankly everyone looks pretty bad.

    6. EddieSherbert*

      I’d want to stay out of it if possible, but at this point you are a bit involved. I think your best options are:
      A. Let the files go into the shredder bin. Report your conversation with coworker to HR – let them know you don’t want to be involved but are nervous you could get in trouble for knowing – and act like that’s the whole story.

      B. Give the files to coworker. Tell them your concerns and why you pulled them out of the shredder. Let her handle it from there and wash your hands of the situation.

      C. Can you just… anonymously put the files back and call it a day? Like nothing happened?

      Good luck! Very weird situation to say the least!

      2. UrbanGardener*

        C. is my plan, basically. Assuming the new manager will box up the boss’ old personnel files and put them in storage, I plan to slip these files in the box, too.

  46. Small company growing pains*

    I joined a small office, about 10 people, eight months ago. Most people have been there for 15-20 years, so I thought “This job must be awesome if people stay there so long!” After having worked for a couple of companies with very high turnover rates, I thought this company must be doing something right. After I accepted the position I came to find out that they had been looking to add someone to their team for a few years, but every time they add someone they last less than a year. And now I know why. This company functions like an extremely dysfunctional family, rather than co-workers. They scream at each other for things that I would deem no big deal but because they’ve been in such close proximity to each other for so long they just blow up. They have extremely unrealistic expectations of each other and especially of me, being new. The list goes on and on, but you get the idea.

    After 8 months at this company, I still feel uncomfortable going into work. I used to consider myself the type that can get along with anyone, in my old jobs I was often the first one to crack a joke or try to ease tension; now I feel worn down by their attitude and I’ve stopped trying. I feel like Harry Potter sleeping in a broom cupboard. Any tips on how to survive a company with a deeply ingrained, tight-knit culture?

    (I deeply consider quitting, everyday. However I quit my last job after 8 months and don’t want to look like a job hopper.)

    1. Megs*

      Holy carp, that sounds awful! Job hopping is one thing, but working for any company you could reasonably compare to the Dursley’s can’t be good for your well being. Honestly, I’d suck it up for four months and then start looking again.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m so sorry you ran into this. I had a similar—though definitely not as bad—situation, in which I thought “most people have been here a long time” meant that the place was amazing. What it really meant was there was a group of people who had a close connection with each other and a shared style and culture, and those people stayed a long time, but there were a lot of other folks who would stay for only 1-3 years and keep leaving and being replaced.

    3. BRR*

      I thought you were going to write about my situation. It’s pretty similar except the people who have been their for 20 years are people who are lazy and won’t get fired because they’ve been there for 20 years. Long tenures go both ways is what I’ve learned.

    4. Lemon Zinger*

      Make to a year, then quit. That place will never get any better. You know that, and you need to get away.

    5. Natalie*

      One option might be connecting with a staffing/recruiting firm – you can be a little more honest with them about what’s going on, and they will screen it with their clients so you don’t have to have awkward interview conversations about why you’re leaving. This sounds bad enough that it shouldn’t be your only tactic but it certainly wouldn’t hurt.

  47. TheUnexpectedDragon*

    I have a question for you lovely people. I’m a new manager, promoted to supervise the team of teapot makers I have previously been on. For the most part, this has been great. I have employee, formerly coworkers who are hard working and there haven’t been any blips about my going from one of the team to managing the team. My problem is with one of my teapot makers, Teddy.

    Teddy overshares on his personal life, which was mildly annoying as co-workers, but I could just tune out/not respond if I wanted to. He would get hurt but I would tell him that I needed to focus on work and couldn’t be his free therapist (actually used those words at one point). He would stop oversharing for a week or two, and then slowly ramp back up. This pattern has continued even after I became his manager, so it’s bonus not okay to be hearing about how marital issues are impacting your ability to get work done. Bonus, I used to hear about how old-boss never explained things and set him up to fail. He still whines about that, but, I’m the boss now. I know I explained and gave tools and training, sometimes even more than once.

    Any advice about how to put a lid on the oversharing and stop the whines of “I fail at life and will fail at this job”? Because right now, the whining level is pretty much guaranteeing a failure.

    1. Megs*

      Since you’re the manager now, make it official. Take him aside and tell him that this is inappropriate and has to stop. Then if he starts up again after a week or two, talk to him again, making it clear that this is a condition of employment. This kind of complaining is awful for everyone and you’re right, he’s setting himself up to fail. You’re his boss now, so make that explicit to him.

      1. TheUnexpectedDragon*

        It’s funny, I *know* that what he’s doing, if unfixed is fire-able. But now that I’ve heard so much, I would feel super guilty taking those steps. Which is clearly the unconscious point of the sad-sap overshare. Finding the boss pants is hard when it’s the first job ever needing them.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          If you are looking for inroads to thinking about this, then think about the health of your group. If you want a working/cohesive group then you HAVE to deal with this guy.
          See, it’s not just about you and him. It’s about everyone he impacts. This guy will demolish your group if he continues indefinitely. You have already given him numerous opportunities. He is showing you how he plans on handling any more opportunities in the future.

          You cannot help someone who will not help themselves. There is a life lesson in this one, also, it’s not just a manager question.

      2. Lemon Zinger*

        +100. This is now a management issue. You need to nip his behavior in the bud, and make it obvious that it’s holding him back at work.

    2. animaniactoo*

      Honestly, this sounds like it’s above your pay grade. I think you would not be out of line in saying “Teddy, I’m concerned about you. I have given you clearly outlined steps several times, but you still seem to think that you are destined to fail, no matter what happens. Have you tried working with a counselor about how you approach situations you are nervous about? If you haven’t, I think it might be very beneficial for you.” If your company has an EAP setup, as a manager, pointing him at it and suggesting he could make use of it for this purpose would be within your role.

      1. TheUnexpectedDragon*

        When we were coworkers, I once actively suggested that he get therapy. Because he needs it, and random female coworkers are definitely not the place to get you emotional support. There have been a few rounds of “you should probably talk with your wife about that” or “you should speak with a professional about those issues”. Any script ideas for sitting him down for a talk?

        1. misspiggy*

          Wouldn’t you be having regular one to ones with each of your reports anyway? In which case you’d review his work briefly, and then say, ‘Teddy, I also need to raise something with you. You’ve been (doing specific behaviours) recently, and I’ve come to realise this is impacting your effectiveness as a member of this team. When you (x), it (causes specific business consequence). I need you to not do this at work any longer, although you’re welcome to contact the EAP at any time. Can you commit to that?’

          1. TheUnexpectedDragon*

            I don’t because we’re all technically contractors. I’m a contractor in charge of contractors who are on a different contract than I am. Which all means I can’t actually take disciplinary action, but can strongly recommend it. I pretty much have job of managing work flow, but have to bring in other people to manage behavior, since behavioral stuff could lead to a contract being cancelled. It’s…less than ideal.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Tell yourself over and over, “I am not paid to be his shrink.”

              I would recommend disciplinary action, if it were me. Some people will just endless suck up your time until they are motivated to do something else.

              I would tell Ted that his constant complaints are not professional. He needs to develop a plan to work at what bothers him. “In the meantime, since we have had discussions many, many times about your life problems, I have put in for a disciplinary action regarding your ongoing complaints as chronic negativity pulls the group effort down and must be addressed. This means a bit more than going two weeks without complaining, it means turning over a new leaf in your work-life.”

              I have worked with a few of these energy vampires and I no longer give them my energy. I am willing to help anyone who is helping themselves. Even people who are just doing little things to help themselves, I am totally in favor of helping them. This guy will just keep doing what he is doing and how much longer will you be able to do this?

        2. animaniactoo*

          “Teddy, you know that I’ve suggested seeing someone professional before about this. Now that I’m looking at this from the position of manager, I’m seeing how it impacts your role on the team in a much bigger way than I did before. It’s a pretty serious issue. I don’t know what [previous manager] may have said to you about it, but these are the ways that it impacts your role and the team.

          • Complaints are morale killing to listen to.
          • Expectation of failure is setting up a situation in which directions are not clearly understood or followed up when clarification is needed and failure is happening.
          • Etc.

          However you do it, you need to get a handle on this. I would strongly urge you to look into our company’s EAP program (if you have one) as part of seeing what steps you can take towards that. I believe that you have valuable contributions to make and I want to see you succeed, but in order to do that you have to take this seriously and work to improve these issues.”

          If you don’t have an EAP program, then strongly urge seeing a professional who can help him “work on his professional demeanor and attitude”.

          He may be a lost cause – in terms of being too strongly into a depressive attitude/state for anything you say to pull him out of it at this time. But you can and should try to be clear that you both are seeing a major impact in your role as manager (and what it specifically is), and that you want to see him overcome it and succeed as a member of your team.

  48. Anon today*

    I feel like there’s been a lot of discussion of fandom and fan-related activities here lately, and I’m wondering: how important do you think it is to keep talk of internet communities out of the workplace? I ask because in a public-facing role for my organization, where being a nerd or a geek is very much the norm. I have a small-but-visible fandom-related tattoo on my arm that I’ve covered in previous jobs but never this one (the mayor saw it the other day and laughed, telling me if I ever meet his 11-year-old son, the kid will want one, too). My boss knows I write fanfic and will teasingly ask if I plan to spend the evening/weekend writing. It’s also pretty known that I was able to pay for college because I 1) coded for a fandom-related website and 2) edited for a small publisher of LGBT erotica.

    I currently maintain somewhat of a firewall between my fandom persona, but I’m starting to wonder if it’s even necessary. Should I worry if someone at work finds out who I am online? I’m 30, this is my third job, I’ve been here 2 years and was head-hunted for this role, if that makes a difference.

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      The way I see it, most workplaces understand that you’re allowed to have a personal life. And while you don’t want them to interfere with each other, IMO they can each acknowledge that the other exists. I have homebrewing magazines in my office where visitors can see them (along with other unrelated reading material), and have discussed homebrewing with coworkers. Hell, I even have gone to a craft beer festival with a coworker with whom I’m quite friendly. I don’t feel the need to hide these things, although I really don’t talk about them with clients or even random coworkers.

      So I know you asked about fandom, but IMO it’s the same issue — an outside activity that some might look askance at. But they’re perfectly legitimate pursuits for adults to enjoy outside of work, and I don’t think we have to pretend they didn’t/don’t happen.

    2. Manders*

      I think you sound awesome! I don’t talk much about fandom-related activities at work, but only because none of my coworkers seem interested. If I saw a fandom-related tattoo or some toys on someone’s desk, it would be an awesome icebreaker.

      One of my long-term career goals is to move into a company where people are proud of their geeky interests. I don’t think anyone else in my office has even seen The Force Awakens. :/

      1. Hallway Feline*

        Same! My coworkers are all “real adults” who don’t take interest in things that aren’t “normal” (aka outside of over-hyped pop culture; they think The Big Bang Theory is super nerdy and edgy! [Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate the show, but TBBT isn’t as nerdy or out there anymore.]).

        Whereas I am a little bit of a geek but I have to hide it at work because they give me funny looks like “what the heck is wrong with you?” when I mention I’m going to play D&D on the weekend, or playing Civ 5 all night with friends on my weekends. If you didn’t want to hear my weekend plans, why’d you ask?

    3. CM*

      I think it’s totally a culture thing. If you’re in a nerd-friendly organization where nobody will judge you for your extracurricular activities, and you wouldn’t mind talking about your activities with your coworkers, go for it. In a more conservative organization or one with coworkers who might give you a hard time, the firewall would probably be important.

    4. Aurion*

      I’ve been a fan since my teens and I’m very open that I’m a geek, but I don’t go into the fine details and I keep a very strong firewall between my real life and my fannish persona. My coworkers know that every time someone utters the phrase “Batman” I will turn my head (seriously, this happened yesterday. The fact I have the Gotham skyline as my desktop wallpaper is a clue), and if asked I can talk at length about what I think of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, certain video games, etc.

      But I (used to, haven’t had inspiration in a while) write fanfic, and I don’t mention that. If I end up going to a convention on the weekend, I’ll mention that, but I wouldn’t mention in detail all the panels I attended unless specifically asked. For one thing, unless someone expresses interest I don’t think they’re that interested so I don’t want to talk their ear off about stuff, and for two, a lot of fandom stuff touches upon things that aren’t work-safe topics (for example, I think LGBT is a totally work-safe topic. Erotica, not so much).

      Basically, I treat fandom like any other hobby. I make no secret that I’m a part of the community (“yeah, I totally spent the weekend watching e-sports!”) but unless someone expresses an interest I am not going to go into arm-flailing specifics (“did you see how Rogue totally slayed at GSL Code S yesterday?!”). And I don’t speak of any topic that I would be uncomfortable with a 10 year old hearing.

    5. Gene*

      Around here, it’s pretty much like any other hobby. My coworkers have been following along the saga of my costume for Worldcon, and even helping out (I’ve borrowed a piece of sporting equipment from one coworker for the con).

      I don’t hobnob with the Mayor, but the Director of Public Works knows where I’m going to be in 10 days.

    6. Library Director*

      I think the hobby idea is spot on. If you wouldn’t think twice about seeing sports memorabilia than fandom memorabilia is equivalent. Outside my office I have a wall that features my main fandom. The largest item is a framed poster from the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum. It lends a little gravitas. My board chair wasn’t crazy about it until we were giving a VIP tour and the very, very VIP started gushing over my display. As long as you’re being you in a respectful way, I say let it show. (By respectful, I mean we all know the person who is adamant that the only side is Red and not Blue. Blue support is heresy.)

  49. Another Offensive Coworker*

    Going more anon for this one….

    I have a coworker who has some very offensive views on anyone GLBT (Apparently they caused the wildfires in California from getting married!), and she’ll often come to my cube and tell me her views. I don’t want to listen to that hateful sort of stuff, but I have some constraints:
    1. She’s extremely old. That’s not an excuse, of course, but her views are entrenched by decades and I couldn’t change or soften her mind.
    2. She’s senior to me, institutionally useful, and let’s just say that talking to her manager wouldn’t change anything.
    3. She can take offensive easily (irony!)
    4. She sits right next to me, and I often need her (on behalf of her dept) to sign off on things for me.

    So that said, does anyone have any scripts can I use to very gently discourage this topic? I’d love to use the “I hope you’re not saying that because I agree with you,” but she would not take it well. I don’t mind listening to her other stuff, but this is just too far for me.

    1. fposte*

      What does your manager say? Not about her views, but about her talking to you when you’re supposed to be working.

      1. Another Offensive Coworker*

        Unfortunately, this woman is enough of an institution here (and very genuinely useful in many ways) that her manager wouldn’t care, and she doesn’t talk enough to really get in the way of my work either. I’m on my own for this one :/

        1. fposte*

          *Your* manager, not her manager. And of course she gets in the way of your work–you really can’t work effectively while somebody’s talking. “Jane, sometimes Lucinda wants to chat at just the wrong time for getting my work done–how would you like me to handle that?” It’s not about getting her disciplined, it’s about getting you authorization to move her along.

          And it’s not about the topic, it’s about her picking the wrong time to talk. (Because there’s never a right time for that conversation, but you don’t need to say that.)

    2. Amtelope*

      Can you try a softer version of “I hope you’re not saying that because you think I agree with you”? Maybe something like “We’re just going to have to agree to disagree about that,” or “I’m not the best audience for this,” or “I’m really not up for politics at work. Tell me about [some other interest you know she has] — how’s it going with your [garden/baking/grandkids/television watching/whatever]?”

      I know this is hard when you’re dealing with someone senior to you, but as a lesbian, I’d be so horribly uncomfortable listening to that conversation going on near me, and even if pushing back a little bit does nothing to change her mind, at least it’ll establish to listeners that you don’t agree with her.

      1. Amtelope*

        Also, that’s my advice if it’s really true that talking to her manager won’t change anything. Her behavior would be completely unacceptable in many offices — are you sure there’s no one in management who’s willing to step in to address this with her?

        1. Another Offensive Coworker*

          Yeah, that’s part of it that I feel embarrassed when she says some of these things to me– but she really could make my life miserable work-wise, so I can’t really argue! I like the suggestions for softer disagreements and changing the subject; I know I’ll have to work on practicing some of those.

          And sadly, our institution (strong tenure plus weak HR and management) means that no one is going to broach this with her, so I want to get really good at gently pushing back on her myself.

          1. AnotherTeacher*

            Would fposte’s recommendation work? If not, and I understand if not because of what you’ve said, changing the topic like “Oh my goodness, I just remembered X!” works. Maybe you could fake a sneezing fit and have to excuse yourself.

            I like saying something like “You know, I have family members and other people I love who are LGBT.” Sometimes I feign misunderstanding, which is true in the sense that I don’t share the other person’s bigoted views, and the other person sort of loses steam in explaining what they mean. But, it sounds like she might take offense at those tactics.

      2. CM*

        I really like this phrasing — I tend to be more blunt so I was going to suggest, “I don’t agree with you and I don’t really want to talk about this,” accompanied by a change of subject. Antelope’s is nicer.

    3. The Butcher of Luverne*

      “It really bothers me to hear comments like that. Can we agree not to discuss the topic, please?”

    4. Theguvnah*

      Keep a jar on your desk. Every time she says something awful, put in a dollar Bill (or a fiver, or a quarter, whatever you have). Every few months, add up what you have in the jar and donate it to an LGBT organization. Maybe even in her name ;)

      And smile to yourself every time she says something awful.

  50. Temperance*

    Crowdsourcing advice:

    I regularly get phone calls from people requesting assistance – people that I cannot help, for various reasons. I give them other resources to call, but I very often run into the situation where the person on the line is extremely anxious/agitated and has decided that *I* am helping them. So they’ll call me several times instead of an org that can actually assist. Which exacerbates their problems. (Here’s an example: a woman outside of our coverage area was being evicted and ignored the first hearing, and then called me and then my boss 8 times in 2 days, after I told her we couldn’t help her.)

    I’ve stopped returning calls past the first one, but otherwise, what can I do? Some of these folks are obviously dealing with anxiety, but I don’t have the time or resources to take ownership of their problems (nor is it my job to do so).

    1. Chriama*

      I think you have to give yourself permission to let go. You’ve provided them the information you can. After that, screen their calls. It sucks, but you’re only one person and you don’t have unlimited working capacity.

    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I should have mentioned this with the racist coworker Henry above, but a good closer is “I’m sorry, but if you don’t have any other questions for me, I’m going to have to go help other clients. *click*” That should be preceded with something more like “As we discussed, we can’t help you with X, that ABC agency’s area. We can only help with Y. Did you have a question about Y?” at least once, usually 2-3 times, although after 8 (!!) calls, I would jump right to the closer.

    3. animaniactoo*

      Can you treat the calls as the help you are giving? “Okay, this is what I need you to do for me. Call this number and explain the whole situation to them. I can’t make the call for you because they’ll need to ask you personal questions that I won’t have the answers for, so I need you to make that call, okay?”

    4. Mimmy*

      I had callers similar to this in my previous job – I can think of two in particular who kept calling and calling and calling. One person kept looking for help to find housing. Another person practically latched on to me so every time there was a crisis or change in her family’s situation, she’d call me. Whenever she got agitated, she would sound like the Howard’s unseen mother in Big Bang Theory.

      They probably just see you and/or your boss as someone who’s been particularly empathetic. I assume this a human services agency and you’re providing Information & Referral? (Apologies if I’m mistaken). A lot of times, I think people feel like agents from many organizations are not helpful or rude, so once they find someone who sounds friendly and willing to help, that’s all they’re willing to deal with. You probably need to be firmer in saying that you do not have the resources to help. I never learned to do that – I always felt like I *had* to do something and that if I didn’t have the info or resources they needed, I felt like I didn’t do my job.

      Maybe get together with your boss and come up with scripts. Repeat callers can definitely be a time and energy suck. I wish I’d learned to deal with them more effectively.

      1. Temperance*

        You’re close – I work at a law firm, and we do pro bono. I need to work on being firmer with telling people no. I sometimes just don’t return calls, which isn’t great, but makes my life easier. (These referrals aren’t really my job.)

    5. BuildMeUp*

      Something that I’ve found helpful in customer service positions is to re-frame your response.

      What has worked for me is to eliminate the “bad news” part of the response entirely. Don’t say no. Don’t say, “That isn’t my department, but…” or “I can’t help you, but…” because for some people, anything after that just won’t be heard. They hear that you’re saying no and all their focus goes to trying to change your mind.

      Instead, go straight into the information about who can help them. “Oh, you need help with X? That’s handled by the Official X Department. Do you have a pen? I’ll give you their phone number/address.” Try to mentally view it differently, too – right now you’re thinking, “Oh, I can’t help this person.” But you are helping them – you’re giving them the information they need to contact the right person. Try to say it that way, too – if your voice sounds helpful and like you’re solving a problem for them, that might help as well.

  51. super anon*

    anyone have any tips/tricks/advice for studying for and passing the PMP? Any good study book recommendations? I’m hoping to take the PMP in December after I finish my 35 education hours and I want to make sure I pass on the first try because that $550 USD test taking fee is pretty steep.

    1. Pwyll*

      One of those deals sites was having a special on an online PMP course for $49, down from $1000. I can’t seem to find it at the moment, but maybe google for it? Perhaps it was Kinja or Lifehacker?

    2. Brownie Queen*

      Get Rita Mulcahy’s PMP exam prep. It is helpful. If you can, take a good prep course. I got my PMP last year so this is what I remember from the prep course.

      Memorize your formulas
      Make sure you know you know your knowledge areas and process groups from the PMbok

      When I took the exam, first thing I did was jot down all of the formulas and process groups this was helpful.

      Good luck

    3. Slippy*

      It is just generic advice but remember that the book’s way is the “right” way. I have a couple of friends that failed it the first time through due to them relying on their experience and answering with solutions that would work in real life but was not the book answer.

      1. it happens*

        Seconding Slippy’s note – study the book and do the practice exams. Doesn’t matter what works in the real world, there is a RIGHT answer for the exam, know what it is.
        Good luck – it’s a pain, but worth having the credential to get better jobs.

    4. Cath in Canada*

      Ooh, I wrote a blog post about this right after I passed my exam: http://occamstypewriter.org/vwxynot/2014/12/22/how-to-pass-your-pmp-exam/

      TL;DR: practice tests upon practice tests upon practice tests. There’s a collection of links here: http://www.pmi-mad.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=316:my-top-10-recommended-web-sites-for-free-pmp-exam-sample-questions-&catid=137:articulos&Itemid=88 – I found #1 and #3 on that list to be the most helpful.

      Good luck!

      1. Girasol*

        A friend advised me to take the practice tests all the way through, timed rather than do some questions and take a break. He had a theory that you needed not just to know the material but the stamina to sit out such a long test. That seemed to work for me.

  52. Planet Janet*

    So I’ve been thinking lately that I’d really like to go back to school and get my MBA and transition careers to management consulting. My biggest concern is that I’m not sure my work experience is impressive enough to get me into target schools. As background, I have an undergrad degree in business (b.comm, majoring in mgmt. info systems) and 2 years of work experience in IT at a financial institution. I work with the software that holds transaction and account info and do pretty much everything except actual coding (we work alongside a couple developers for that).

    I guess I’m worried that I’m kind of pigeonholed in my role now . My current department is really flat and I’m not sure there’s a managerial path available if I stay here so I’m wondering if I should be looking at leaving my department or my company altogether and if so, what kind of roles I’d even be qualified for that would be a boost to my profile. I’d like to hear from anyone who’s used an MBA as a career switch or came to management consulting from another field. Or anyone who’s had a good experience with a career counsellor that they’d like to recommend.

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      So you don’t actually have any management experience, which will disqualify you from a lot of MBA programs. Maybe look into ones that are tailored toward recent grads. Your job situation certainly doesn’t sound ideal. Why don’t you search out someone at your job who can talk to you about possibly moving up? If you can’t, or find out that there are no options, then you should probably start a job search.

      My work partner finished her MBA in May, with no management experience, and she was aggressively applying for management roles this whole summer. She just got a job, but at the school that provided her MBA. It’s not a management job.

      1. Planet Janet*

        To clarify, I’m planning to apply in 3-ish years so there’s (hopefully) time to improve my work history. I’m just wondering about the best way to do that. ‘Moving up’ could mean all sorts of things. Is anything fine as long as I’m managing other people?

        1. Lemon Zinger*

          Oh sorry, I misread your post! I think management experience of any kind would work. MBA programs are flexible, and they teach important skills for any kind of management.

    2. Bex*

      It really depends on what your target schools are. For the top tier schools that MBB recruit from, you would need way more that 2 yrs of entry level work. It doesn’t necessarily need to be supervisory work, but at least project management and some kind of leadership role that you can point to.

  53. TotesMaGoats*

    So, various updates.

    Graduation went far more smoothly than ever and even beat my own time goal. So, lots of kudos but nothing formally or publicly for pulling this off essentially by myself. I knew the PTB wouldn’t but…

    I’m actively looking for a new job. Two applications in this week and working on a third. That has improved my spirits a lot. I’m even looking outside of higher ed which makes me sad. Still though, I cried all the way home on Monday because the interpersonal/emotional damage of working here with people who are crazy is becoming too much.

    People are leaving like proverbial rats. Almost every Monday for the past 3 weeks someone has announced in stand up that they are resigning. And it’s like no one is putting it all together.

    And my work BFF has a phone interview next week. She’ll be out of here fast which is good for her but sad for me. At least I’ll get a mani/pedi out of it. We made a bet that whoever leaves first has to treat the other to a mani/pedi. And if we both manage to leave at the same time it’s a spa day. So, we win either way.

    1. CM*

      Good luck with the job search! At least you can give yourself kudos, when you interview elsewhere… use your successful graduation as an example of “a time when I faced a challenging situation” or something. I hope you find something with nice, normal coworkers, ideally in higher ed. And I hope you get that spa day!

    2. Anxa*

      Congrats on graduation.

      When I was a student worker, I inherited a huge campus event without the funding previous people in my position had. And my coworkers weren’t really helping as much as usual (it was back to school, everyone had a ton on their plate).

      I learned a lot about event management (which is kind of useless for my current ambitions) and asking for help and managing expectations.

      But I do remember it being super frustrating to feel like the expectations were a bit too high without having the support I felt I should have had.

      My local university is a sinking ship, but that’s mostly because of politics (my state is very anti-education despite having had a pretty reputable state university system). It’s kind of sad.

  54. Natalie*

    Business fashion question.

    I have a new job, and they do not have any kind of dress code or dress culture – people seem to genuinely wear whatever they want, from grubby shorts & Tevas to slacks/button up/fancy pen in the breast pocket. I came from a 100% casual environment and I (oddly, given how I dress on weekends) didn’t like it. I feel more professional somewhat dressed up, and I like to keep my “business dress” chops up. Nor do I mind being on the “dressier” side of the office – I’m in accounting so it’s not really that weird. (And bonus, the next time I’m interviewing it will be easier to hide. Changing into a suit in the bathroom and then sneaking out of my building was nerve-wracking.)

    The problem is that all of the articles I’ve seeing about dressing down a suit are for men. So that’s basically what I’m looking for – I’m already leaving my jacket off, but what else would you do to dress down suit pants or a pencil skirt? Crazy shoes? Alternatively, how would you dress jeans way up? I feel like I could go either way.

    1. Charlotte Collins*

      I love sheath dresses, because they’re flattering on most people, and you can dress them up or down with tight and cardigans, shrugs, or jackets. A really nice blouse and dress shoes or boots will dress jeans right up. For suits, I often just swap out the jacket for a cardigan.

      As a short woman who has looked younger than her age all her life, I completely understand your desire to dress up. I have found that people take me more seriously and treat me more like an equal when I’m dressed less casually.

      1. Natalie*

        Yep, I’m a short-ish woman and personality wise, I just don’t scream “professional and you need to listen to me”, possibly because I don’t feel it. When I’m in jeans and a t shirt my brain slides right out of work mode.

    2. Dawn*

      Bright colored tops or bright accessories would be a great way to dress down suit pants or a suit skirt. Dressing up jeans is easy- just add a blazer! Blazers instantly make anything look more profesh!

      1. Church Dancing Honey Mustard*

        Agreed on blazers. I’ve got three blazers in rotation that I wear pretty much every time I go into the office (I’m full-time Work At Home now). I also love the Portofino style blouses from Express for work. I have a three in different colors and will buy more the next time I need to buy clothing for work. I also wear them outside of work too. I do have to wear a camisole or something underneath them though, because I’m short and bigger in the chest, and they are a little too low cut for my taste.

    3. Chriama*

      Cardigans. They bring everything down a level. Also, funky jewellery and more casual t-shirts/tank tops instead of blouses. I think pants are easiest to dress down, while pencil skirts are the hardest – A-line and circle skirts are easier. I also find that if you have suit sets, splitting them up (so wearing the skirt with a cardigan or the blazer with jeans) is a way to get more use out of your current wardrobe.

      2. Natalie*

        That’s a good idea, wearing the suit jacket with jeans. One of them looks way to “suit-y”, but the rest are a little more blazer-styled and would look fine I bet.

    4. fposte*

      The previous post this morning is awash in good tips about dressing jeans up, so have a look in there. For dressing more tailored stuff down, go with knits, especially more relaxed fit knits, on the other end (that’s easier in winter but still doable in summer). You could even throw in an amusing printed tee under a light cardigan or with a scarf so it’s clearly part of a look. Shoes are wide open–crazy, sandals, boots, chunky orthopedics for a look that’s simultaneously metal and comfort :-), sneaks if you’re comfortable with the mix.

      1. Natalie*

        Ah, there must be more since I last checked the comments! That’s actually what reminded me I should ask here.

    5. HW*

      I work in a similarly odd situation dress code wise. I technically work in a warehouse which means jeans, sneakers, tshirts are recommended but we share kitchen and bathroom spaces with the main office workers in our building which has a stricter dress code so we’re expected to find an awkward balance between the two. I usually wear dark wash or black jeans that could be mistaken for black slacks with an untucked button up shirt with the sleeves rolled up and/or an oversized cardigan and nice flats (I have some great super comfy loafers that work perfect for making my jeans seem instantly a little nicer) or low heeled boots. I’ll dress up the shirt with a short necklace (nothing that could get caught in machinery!). Sometimes I’ll wear like a striped tshirt or something along those lines if I don’t want to deal with a button up. Another thing I do is wear skinny legged black slacks and roll them up a little at the ankle so they seem a little more casual/dressed down. That way I can usually adapt to whatever is thrown at me in the warehouse but not get complaints about how we dress down when in the shared space with our more formal office workers. Hope that helps!

    6. Natalie*

      A few people have suggested cardigans with the dress pants – are you thinking a structured cardigan or a softer one?

      1. zora.dee*

        either way, depends on how casual you want to go.

        A more classic “Jackie O” style cardigan is more business-ey looking, heading toward business formal.

        But a more casual one, like a “boyfriend” cardigan or a waterfall cardigan will make it even more casual.

        And blanket cardigans are super popular in my area these days, with southwestern-ey prints and assymetrical hems.

        Look online for some different cardigan ideas and see how far you want to go.

      2. periwinkle*

        I’d do a softer cardigan with the dress pants and a more structured one with the jeans/chinos.

        Right now I’m wearing gray cords, medium blue polo, and gray structured cardigan. On Monday I’ll probably wear black dress pants, a soft-colored shell of some sort, and the blue one-button fleece cardigan that I snagged from Nordstrom’s anniversary sale. I feel smarter when I wear some sort of jacket-y thing!

    7. Student*

      Ultimately, you want to be the focus of people’s attention on you at work, not your clothes.

      Look at your co-workers, and try to find something that you’re comfortable in and doesn’t make you stand out in the “wrong” way. Since you’re more toward the dressed-up end of the spectrum, I suggest you aim for: when you stand next to the boss, strangers still know which one of you is the boss most of the time. You can come close to the boss’s level of dressed-up, but probably shouldn’t look like you are 2 levels above him on the org chart, because that’s when you are going to be getting negative attention for dressing up too much. That might even be the definition of dressing up too much in business culture – dressing up so much that you make the boss look bad in comparison.

      If you’re trying to dress down an outfit by adding attention-grabbing elements, that’s probably the wrong way to go about it and you need to start from a less-dressy base. The attention-getting elements may make it less formal at a social gathering, but they do exactly the opposite of what you want clothes to do at work – be a quiet background to your work. You can have only one attention-grabber piece of apparel at work, as an acceptable personality quirk, social conversation-starting crutch, or “personal trademark”, unless you are in the entertainment industry. Anything else is mistaking the purpose of work clothes with social clothes norms and drawing negative attention your way.

    8. TheCupcakeCounter*

      My favorite type of question (and I’m an accountant too!)
      Skinny jeans and slacks with a tailored blouse and blazer is one of the favorite looks – and pumps and flats both work. Maxi dresses with a cardigan, maxi skirts with a fitted top, palazzo pants, suit pants or skirt with a funky patterned shell and loose cardigan (one of those open, flay-away ones). And I have all of the shoes you could ask for. I love wearing an all black outfit (black, cropped skinny jeans and a looser fit black top) with cobalt blue shoes or crazy dangly earrings and a flat sandal.
      I also like the pencil skirt with a riding boot in the fall and a cool military inspired blouse.
      No need to get a whole new wardrobe just mix some of your staples with a less dressy option. Button ups with skinny or wide-leg jeans, suiting bottoms with a looser fit top. And crazy shoes…I LOVE shoes

  55. Camellia*

    In olden days…not so very long ago:

    The BigWhiteCollarAllOfUsInCubesTraditionalCompany at which I worked for 25+ years used bells, exactly like the ones in schools that signal class changes. DING-A-LING-A-LING-A-LING-A-LING!!!!

    Everyone worked from 8 to 5, one hour lunch, no work from home, no flex time, no comp time.

    The warning bell rang at 7:57. The starting bell rang at 8:00.

    Every department was assigned to one of three lunch periods. The bell rang to signal the start of the first lunch period at 11:30. The second lunch bell rang at noon. The third lunch bell rang at 12:30.

    By 4:58 we were all lined up in the doors of our cubicles and when the ending bell rang at 5:00 we bolted like horses from the starting gate.

    They did finally stop using these bells…less than 10 years ago.

    1. Dawn*

      0_0

      You’re joking right? This is for some story you’re writing and you want to get our reactions as fodder for your writing, right?

      1. Camellia*

        Nope, not kidding, unfortunately. This was just one example of their, shall we say, controlling nature?

        I’ve mentioned a few others on here from time to time. For example, I’m in IT and, as I said above, there was no work-from-home. That meant if you got a support call in the middle of the night you had to get up, get dressed, and drive to the office to take care of it. This worked so well for single parents!

        And no comp or flex time. So if you worked from midnight to 6:00 AM on an IT problem, it didn’t matter. Your butt was expected to be in your seat at 8:00 AM and to work the full day.

        Why did I and so many others stay for so long? There were a few reasons. My commute was 10-20 minutes. They allowed us to take a vacation day, or half-day, with no notice. So if your child woke up sick and couldn’t go to school, or the school called and you had to go pick up your child, you could take a full or half-day vacation and it wouldn’t count against you. Of course, this worked very well for the company because most of us only had only 2 or 3 weeks vacation, so if you were a parent you didn’t take any long stretches of vacation, you saved it for sick kids, etc.

    2. matcha123*

      My office has a 12pm bell for lunch and 1pm bell signaling the end of lunch. There’s also a bell and message at 5 or 6pm. The announcement tells staff that don’t need to be there to go home.

  56. Overworked Anon*

    I was promoted to my role two years ago, trained with the new skills I need, and I love what I’ve learned and am eager to do everything to help my clients. The problem: I barely have time to do the bare minimum any given day/week/month. People who have my role in other similar organizations have maybe 1-6 clients AT MOST. I have 12, with two more coming. The C-level has assured me (for 18 months) that they’re looking for help for me, but a low salary plus relying on personality tests for hiring (uggggggh) has made them insist it’s a hard position to fill. (I don’t want some random schmo, but seriously? After 18 months? In a major metropolitan area?) However, when another department had a sudden opening, the skilled role was filled a week later.

    My issue: I feel constantly overworked and can’t seem to a) get the motivation to DO what I need to do and b) feel burned out. In my mind, I feel like I need months, not days, off to regroup. I need to work (haven’t won the lottery yet), I really like my coworkers, the commute is super easy, I’m a trusted known entity in an industry that can have sudden turnover/layoffs, and we’re actively trying for kids, so I’d love to have the leave I’ve earned here (and yes, I know it could take 1+ TTC, but knowing what’s here versus chancing somewhere else is anxiety inducing).

    Any advice? What would you do? I’ve tried to become super organized, but looking at my Workflowy list just depresses me. I’ve tried to pick a “client of the day” to limit my scope, but the whole to do list is so overwhelming that I don’t start anything and just procrastinate and then feel worse. My direct supervisor, who’s been trying her best to get me help, has told me to do what I can–and basically, not care so much–but I’m the definition of Type-A, overachieving, never-met-a-challenge-I-couldn’t-conquer worker.

    1. Chriama*

      I think you can challenge this from 2 angles. Your boss has said to do what you can, so take her up on that. Also start keeping track of what you do and don’t do, so you have a record of what you’re prioritizing and the trade-off’s you’re making. Also refuse the new clients if you can, or at least make sure you don’t get any more after this. Right now this is your pain. Once things start failing, it becomes management’s pain. Secondly, try to get some more influence in the hiring process. You’re basically hiring an assistant for yourself, right (or at least a junior coworker)? So see if they’ll let you take the hiring manager role and drive the search process. You might not be able to increase the salary but maybe you can review the people who were rejected by the personality test. Or maybe you can provide some market research to convince them that they need to up their range. Combined with clients slipping through the cracks or not being able to accept new business, it might be a much more compelling argument.

      1. Sad teapot maker*

        +1 As another Type A-er, I feel your pain on knowing letting it go can be easier said than done but, I think, in situations like this, you kind of have to for the sake of your own sanity. I also like the idea of keeping a running list list of what you did do along with a list of what you couldn’t do as a result – when I’ve got too much on, I often find it useful to be able to show the higher ups what I’m doing so they can give me some steer if I’m dropping anything they’d much rather I treated as a priority. Plus, it gives them a black and white straight up visual of “Here’s what we’re missing out on because hiring can’t get sorted”.

        1. Overworked Anon*

          Thanks to both of you! I’m going to digest your suggestions and try to make this stuff happen!

  57. Ihmmy*

    My anxiety keeps ramping up at work. Not because of work (though current work stressors add to it I’m sure). I don’t want to go home because of a panic attack, I’m getting pretty tired of my miswired brain lately

    1. Dawn*

      CBT therapy and meds if CBT isn’t enough. CHANGED. MY. LIFE. Getting a handle on my anxiety made so much of a difference in my entire life that I cannot imagine why I took so long to go to therapy.

      1. the_scientist*

        Similarly, I can’t imagine why it took me so long to take the plunge and start using medication to manage my anxiety. I did actually call in sick to work (two days in a row) due to panic attacks- the only time I’ve ever called in sick. I had to try a couple of different drugs (had a bad reaction to the first one I tried) but within three weeks of the lowest dose of the second drug, I felt 100% better than I had in…..years, possibly? I didn’t realize that it was possible to NOT be consumed by anxiety for most of my waking hours.

        I’m not thrilled with some of the side effects of the medication, but it was still worth it.

        1. Mreasy*

          I feel the same way. Being able to stop a panic attack rather than ride it out & ruin most of the day is a major game changer for the better!

      2. Ihmmy*

        I’m on meds which take the edge of the worst of it thankfully (no full fledged panic attacks since starting them), and I’m meeting a new therapist later this month but not for another week and a half yet. Just tired of it. And also tired in general; I’m sure the lack of sleep isn’t helping my anxiety management.

        1. Dawn*

          HUUGGSSS!!

          Been there, done that, didn’t get the t-shirt. Be extra, extra nice to yourself, be gentle when you talk to yourself, and give yourself tons of slack right now. It’s tough! I found that my anxiety was often like sandpaper against my brain and that being super gentle with myself was very soothing- even going so far as to do things like take a nice bath and say soothing stuff out loud to myself like “What a nice bath. The water is so warm! I like how the bubbles cascade over themselves. I’m going to try and make a bubble dinosaur. I love myself and am taking this nice bath because I love myself. What a nice bath! The water feels so good between my toes.” and on and on and on. Soothing murmurs helped a LOT when my anxiety was leaving me feeling raw and ragged.

    2. GOG11*

      I can definitely empathize with your situation, and I’m sorry you’re struggling with anxiety. I have always been an anxious person and, while I’ve learned a lot of coping mechanisms, I still get a few weeks every year or so that make functioning difficult (difficulty concentrating, lack of sleep, uncomfortable physical symptoms). I recently dealt with a flare up due to other health issues and am now utilizing a combination of CBT and medication to manage it better. I was always anxious to take medication that messes with my brain, but I’m really glad I spoke with my doctor. I’ve got a long-term medication as well as one for more acute relief. Also, we found that one of my medication doses needed changed, which has also been very helpful, and I wouldn’t have discovered that if I hadn’t gone in to see him about it.

      In addition to doing calming or relaxing things, it may be helpful to do things that help you burn off some of the anxious energy. I tried for so long to respond to intense, anxious/nervous energy by thinking of the beach and it did nothing to help me. Getting up and moving around really helps. Sometimes, it seems like I have to get some of the anxiety out before I can put the calm in (I hope that makes sense).

    3. LuvThePets*

      Ihmmy, Just wanted to send you some encouragement and say that you are not alone. I suffered anxiety as a teen and my daughter has anxiety now along with other mh challenges. I don’t know what will ultimately be most successful for you, but you are taking the right steps, despite how hard it can be. I hope you find much success with your therapy and any other methods you approach.

  58. WashingMyHands*

    I work closely with someone who still has a job despite constantly missing deadlines. We split projects up and I’m often caught having to scramble to make up for lost time when their work is delivered to me late or taking up more than half the projects responsibilities so we can make deadlines. We are working on a major project right now and I’m concerned that we aren’t going to make the deadline. I suggested that we bring in outside help to help my co-worker meet the goalposts so we can get to QA on time. Co-worker emails me (and cc’s a manager) that they don’t want to bring in a co-worker as they think onboarding will be a waste of time and they think I’m worrying too much and should just focus on my end.

    Manager knows that co-worker consistently misses deadlines. Why the manager hasn’t fired co-worker is another question. I’m thinking about just washing my hands clean of this. Just do my end and don’t take on extra work. Basically let the project fail. What would you do?

    1. anon again*

      Letting a project fail may be the only way to get the manager to deal with the coworker that misses deadlines. As long as you’re ensuring the final deadline is met, there’s no need for the manager to do anything.

      1. WashingMyHands*

        True, but I’m scared that may be career suicide at this company. Then again, I just started looking for another job, so might be worth it.

    2. Bex*

      Could you tell your manager that sharing projects isn’t working, and ask the be assigned whole projects going forward? I’d be hesitant to let a project fail since it would likely reflect poorly on you. Your manager might know what’s going on, but people up the food chain probably don’t. If it fails because you didn’t help them out, then it looks like you aren’t a team player. Really though, your boss should be proactively managing the situation, and it sucks that they aren’t!

  59. Going incognito*

    Hi all! I wrote in the open thread last week about an awkward position where an old colleague of mine had applied for a position in my unit, but I had concerns and I was worried about bringing them up?

    Finally got a chance to speak to Boss yesterday. He actually had picked up on some of the red flags I was concerned about already, but was very happy I spoke up to him about it and told me not to be shy about that moving forward. So … I’m really glad you all encouraged me to do so!

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Yay! So glad you spoke up! Your boss definitely respects you more now. You really did him a solid, and in a professional manner too. :)

  60. Nervous Accountant*

    So we had our performance evals this week. The way it’s set up, is that we fill out a self eval and then our supervisor/manager meet and provide their assessment. At the end, we get to know our pay raise and our goals for the year.

    surprisingly, mine went well. We were on the same page about almost everything. In fact, they had rated me higher in some areas that I had rated myself. I know you shouldn’t rate yourself low but I’ve been very insecure about my performance lately.

    The only thing I was confused about and needed more time to reflect on, was that they rated me lower on working with others. I wonder if it had to do with the issue i had with a creepy coworker a while back (I had posted about the lack of communication & gossiping from this guy a few months back).

    This one is bothering me the most because I had finally expressed how I want to be in a leadership position eventually but I had no idea how to achieve that and wanted their help with it. During the meeting/eval, they gave me some pointers on how to “start fresh” with the new batch of hires we have (about 10 I think). Like be more friendly and approachable.

    Their goal for me was to reach a higher rating (I had 3 last year and 3 this year, despite the much higher pay raise and constant assurance that I’ve improved) and said that could eventually lead to a promotion to senior tax accountant or team leader. I know it will be long and slow and I’m prepared to do what I need to do.

    I used to psot about how it felt like a very rough atmosphere a while back, but honestly, things are a whole lot better now than they were last year. But I’m still not sure how to be one of *those*, who people come to with questions or help. I try to be approachable and friendly but I’m not sure what else to do.
    I’m not concerned about knowledge or clients as much, but what does concern me is that, to be blunt, I really really feel like I have personality issues. I’ve never been the leader type, and I know there are natural leaders….but I don’t feel like that. What are those skills? and can they ever be learned?

    1. misspiggy*

      What I’ve found most helpful is simply to copy the behaviour – especially the body language – of colleagues that are in those roles, or seem like they will be someday. So if you’re in a meeting with someone you like and respect, take a moment to notice what they’re doing. Choose one or two of their behaviours to bring into how you interact with people, until it’s so much part of your routine that you don’t notice it. Then add one or two more things. I’ve always hated dealing with people, but most colleagues would never know that these days!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yes, copy people who you admire and who are doing well.
        Watch people who interact with you, watch how they handle themselves. Some people are easier to be around, and that happens for reasons. Let them show you some of their stuff.

        I think it is important to realize that learning to work with others is a life time learning experience; we are never done learning about interacting with others.

        OP, you have been posting/reading here for a while now. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that you feel better about your job and you have been reading here for a while. Keep reading because you will just continue to pick up more and more.

        Just my opinion but I think the number one trait a good leader needs is to be a good listener, hear what is actually being said, not what we think is being said. My take on leadership is that it’s a service position, I am there to serve the people I lead. And that service takes on many forms, it could be procuring more work, or it could be having a talk with a subordinate. I felt that I was doing leadership correctly when people understood what the company expected from them and they understood the tasks at hand. My job was to help people do a good job so the company remained viable.

      2. vpc*

        Yes, body language is key. One of the things my co-workers have mentioned to me — and I am one of those go-to people — is that when they ask me a question, I do several things:
        1. I turn away from my computer to face them while we talk
        2. I give them the answer, and if I don’t know the answer, I suggest where they could look
        3. I also give them the context behind the answer, as much as I know / am able: “we do it this way now. We used to do it this other way and it wasn’t working because of reasons A, B, and C. We tried solutions 1, 2, and 3 before we got to where we are now.”
        4. If the question is a skill, rather than just information, I walk them through it while they learn the skill and practice it, instead of doing it for them. (I’ve taught a lot of people basic Excel analysis skills. That means I get fewer questions, and can focus on the more complicated things!)

    2. (Not an IRS) Auditor*

      Try “Just Listen” by Mark Goulston. It’s about active listening, but also other ways of making people “feel heard.” PES CPE has a self study course based on the book, with the same title, that I and several of my coworkers really liked.

  61. Anonyby*

    What’s your opinion on wearing personal bluetooth headsets in the office?

    I have a new-ish coworker that’s started wearing his bluetooth earpiece all day, and seems to be listening to podcasts on it. Now, it’s not my place to say anything (and those who are have seen him with it, so if it wasn’t allowed it would have been addressed), but I’m not a fan either. He’s the receptionist, and we have a headset for our own phones that he should be using.

    1. Murphy*

      Is he still getting his work done? I would say that if he’s getting his work done, and it’s not against the rules, then it should be fine. If you’re his supervisor, you could ask him about it, but it sounds like you’re not, so it shouldn’t matter to you.

      I’m someone who needs noise and I wear an earbud (just in one ear) all day, because I would go crazy otherwise. (Granted I sit at my desk alone most of the day, and I take the earbud out on the rare occasion anyone comes over.) I can’t work when it’s too quiet. So I don’t see an issue with it.

      1. Anonyby*

        His performance is spotty, and is being addressed by our manager. That’s how I know that our manager must be fine with him wearing it. I just personally think it looks really really bad for someone who’s supposed to be the first person clients see when they walk in.

        When I was training him, I mentioned that he could play music from the desktop and that it would be fine. We also have a TV/computer in a conference room that plays music (when not being used) that can easily be heard from the front desk. It’s not a quiet office! (Except on weekends–those can get quiet. lol)

    2. Pwyll*

      If the phones are being answered, the guests greeted, and he doesn’t appear to be distracted (as in, his work is getting done correctly), I’m not sure I see the problem.

      1. Anonyby*

        It just looks really unprofessional to me. That’s why I posted here–to see if I was the only one who viewed it that way.

    3. UnCivilServant*

      All bluetooth headsets should be destroyed.

      But that’s just my bias against the technology (I find them uncomfortale, they never hold a charge, I can’t tell if it’s on, etc)

      2. Anonyby*

        I’m totally fine with bluetooths outside of work. Several of my friends own them, and two just switched to bone-conducting ones (which I just ordered myself! So cool! And it doesn’t obstruct your ears from your surroundings!).

        But IMO when you get to work, the personal bluetooths get put away the same way that cell phones get set aside and only checked occassionally, and only answered for emergencies.

  62. Anonish*

    I’ve been at my new job for about six weeks and I’m loving almost everything about it, except I think I’m going to start having a problem with one of the senior developers if he doesn’t stop interrupting me and talking over me in meetings. Today he interrupted me twice – once to tell me to type something that I was already typing, and once stopped me halfway through a sentence and spent five minutes talking about something completely unrelated. I foresee a learning process in which I gently remind him that yes, I am a young-looking woman in tech, and no, sorry, you don’t get to talk down to me.

    1. Dawn*

      “Fergus, I wasn’t done speaking yet.”
      “Fergus, I’ve got this”
      “Fergus, stop interrupting me.”

      Rinse, repeat. Resist the urge to soften your language by adding in “please” or “thanks.”

    2. Snazzy Hat*

      Today he interrupted me twice – once to tell me to type something that I was already typing

      “Way ahead of ya, Fergus.”
      “Hang on a minute, Fergus, I’m almost done typing the thing you just asked me to type.”
      “Sure, lemme just finish typing up [the thing you’re typing].”
      “[what you’re currently typing, word for word]”

      and once stopped me halfway through a sentence and spent five minutes talking about something completely unrelated.

      “I’m sorry, you lost me; I was talking about…”
      “{pause} So anyway, I was talking about…”
      And if you have a really good memory, pick up exactly where you left off. The more awkward of a start, the better. For example, “up exactly where you left off.” Hopefully he’ll respond with, “what?” at which point you can say the full sentence again without interruption.

      I foresee a learning process in which I gently remind him

      Nope, firmly and clearly. As Dawn advises, do not soften the statement.

  63. Guam Mom*

    Anyone have a recommendation for a professional development course (or books?) for building confidence in the work place and developing soft skills? Been told by my (very kind) manager that I need to be more confident in myself but she wasn’t sure what to recommend but we have a professional development budget that she’s willing to contribute to it.

    1. Dawn*

      How to Win Friends and Influence People! I read it on the recommendation of this site and it’s AMAZING! Still holds up all these years later.

    3. CM*

      Getting to Yes, Getting Past No, Difficult Conversations, Crucial Conversations… all books about negotiation which have helped me immensely in being able to clearly express myself and handle conflict in a professional way. (If you’re picking one or two, I’d probably start with Crucial Conversations, then Getting to Yes.) If you learn better through classes, I’d look for classes on active listening and negotiation.

  64. matcha123*

    I hope this doesn’t sound too moody, but I’ve been having such a hard time trying to find a path for myself.
    I’ve been really down and feel like I have too many things to take care of. I need a better paying job. Freelancing in various types of translation could give me much needed depth for my resume. But to get those freelancing jobs, I need contacts and also need friends to bounce questions off of (not uncommon for translation). I don’t have that, so my other option is to move, but I don’t have the money to move.
    On the one hand, I feel like I should have solid experience to offer a company, but on the other hand I think that if companies found value in my experience, I’d be getting more hits on my LinkedIn page. All I get are low-paying jobs from recruiters in India or Bangladesh.
    When I read some of the questions posted here, I see so many about new workers who take off significant time, who are lazy or rude, who refuse to new technologies required for their jobs…and yet, they aren’t fired. I don’t understand how they are hired in the first place. If such lazy, entitled people can get these great jobs and suck at them, I should be able to get one and not suck at it! However, if I can’t even do that, it must mean I have no value to an employer? Without relocation money, I’m stuck and while it seems that companies will pay for other people to move and allow them to be crap at their job, I’m not worth it.
    I’m sure most people are thinking, “Shut up and do something,” and those thoughts just echo through my head and I find myself kind of at a loss for what to do.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      If such lazy, entitled people can get these great jobs and suck at them, I should be able to get one and not suck at it!

      The thing is—when people hire lazy, entitled employees who suck at the job, the hiring managers aren’t thinking, “Yay! Another lazy, entitled, bad employee.” They’re excited, because they think the new employee will be great… and then are surprised the employee sucks.

      I’ve been in several situations in which I had a really hard time finding a job… or an employer put me into the back of the pile and didn’t get back to me until months later… only to find that my future bosses tell me I’m the best person they’ve ever had in the job by far. When they’re hiring, they’re just trying their best guess based on what’s on paper. They aren’t judging your actual work or who you are as an employee. It’d be great if hiring managers could sixth sense that stuff, but they can’t…

  65. NewestNewbie*

    Out of curiosity, after submitting a question- roughly how long does one wait before bringing it to the Friday work thread if it hasn’t been answered yet? Weeks? Months?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Ideally I’d say wait two weeks unless it’s really time-sensitive. My queue is horribly backlogged so the fact that it hasn’t been answered doesn’t mean that it won’t be answered, but I understand it’s not reasonable to ask people to wait longer than that.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Also, you can always email me first to check if it’s in my “to definitely answer” queue or not — I’m always willing to tell you whether it is or if you should go ahead and post here.

    2. NewestNewbie*

      Hi Alison!

      Thanks for the reply! I submitted pretty recently and was honestly just wondering for the future- it’s not time sensitive and I’m happy to wait and see if it’s posted :) That’s good to know that I can email before I do to make sure its not waiting in the queue!

  66. Legalchef*

    I GOT A JOB OFFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I submitted my app 7/1, was contacted for an interview 7/5, had the interview 7/26, they contacted my references 7/28 and 8/1, and gave me the offer yesterday morning!!!!!! They moved really fast!

    Now here is the downside. They can’t increase my salary but they can match it. I’m in the non profit world so I wasn’t expecting a big raise anyway. But their employee contribution to health insurance would be an additional $4500 each year, so it’s functionally a pay cut. I spoke to the HM after reviewing the benefit package and laid out my concerns and said that I at least would want to be made whole, and she asked me to send her an email about it. She didn’t dismiss it out of hand, which is good. I sent her the email and she said she would try to get back to me early next week.

    So now I am starting to clean out my officers 8 years of crap, which is probably a good thing to do anyway.

    3. K130*

      Congratulations!
      I’m cleaning out my cubicle’s 2+ years of crap and I’m hating it, so I wish you luck on your cleanout.

    5. Camellia*

      If they don’t give you the increase you need to compensate for the additional cost of benefits, will you still accept the job?

      1. Legalchef*

        I don’t know… I need to figure that out. I can afford to lose the money in terms of my budgeting, but I don’t really want to. But I also don’t really want to be at my job anymore, so the happiness factor might be worth it.

  67. Aria*

    How do you tough it out at a crappy job without going crazy?

    I’ve been at my job for a little over a year. My manager sucks and isn’t going to change, and the stress has driven me to therapy. I’ve been looking for a new job for months, but the job market in my industry is pretty bad. I can’t afford to quit without a new position, so I am determined to stick it out for the time being. Any coping strategies?

    1. Ask Me My Name*

      I used to work at a non profit that worked with the homeless. You’d think the ED (who was my boss) would be a kind, compassionate individual but instead she was the total opposite. I couldn’t get out of there fast enough. Being in a toxic work environment is very taxing on the body physically and terrible for your mental health. I definitely had moments where I broke down, but I don’t think that means I couldn’t cope overall. Sometimes you just really need to let out that frustration. If you have family and friends that you feel safe venting to, I’d encourage that. I also had a coworker that was very supportive to me during my transition out of there. It helps to have trustworthy allies while you’re in the trenches.

      Another thing that helped me cope was my job search. I was so motivated to get out of there that I developed tunnel vision. Nothing distracted me from applying for jobs as often as I could. Seeing myself walking out of that place for the last time made me me more calm and smile with glee at times I literally wanted to punch a hole in the wall.

    2. Megs*

      Man, I hear you. I’ve been doing temp work for the last year trying to find permanent employment. Sometimes it really sucks, other times I can handle it. But keep trying to find work and try to take things day by day, week by week. Remember, you’ll never get another job if you don’t keep putting yourself out there. And good luck!

    3. Caity*

      I try to focus on the few positive things. Like this job has really flexible hours. I remind myself of that when I can take off last minute for a doctor’s appointment and focus on that.

    4. Jennifer*

      Focus on the money.
      Think about how bad it would be if you just stomped off and quit in the long run.
      Drinking.
      Meditation.
      Ranting (especially at therapy).

      Been doing this for 4+ years…

    5. DoDah*

      -Pick one good thing a day and “appreciate” it. Not to be all whoo-whoo—but this really helps me.
      -How are your coworkers? My boss is an assy-assburger but my coworkers are wonderful. The in-jokes are what keep me sane.
      -Do something nice for yourself (massage, buy a cookie, whatever floats your boat).
      -Remember you are not your job (if you feel like you are failing). Your job is not you.
      -Can you take 10 minutes to meditate during your lunch break. The Headspace app is what I use.

      Good luck–I hope it gets better!

  68. Ask Me My Name*

    I’m starting a grad school program in business analytics soon. I’m interested in a career in data science and analysis. Anybody in the field? What do you do and how’d you get there? My background is in the humanities so I need grad school to help me make this transition, but I’m still trying to find something entry level to get my foot in the door. I’m not sure what type of opportunities to start with though. Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. Jubilance*

      I spent 2 years in data analytics before I transitioned to another role with the same employer. I actually have 2 degrees in chemistry, and took the analytics job as a career change. Obviously enjoyment of math/statistics is important, as well as knowing/learning various Big Data software. I learned a ton about SAS, Hadoop, and also honed my SQL skills as well. Also having an inquisitive mind is good, because you’re essentially combing through huge data sets to answer problems, figure things out, etc.

  69. ThatLibraryChick*

    I’m the volunteer coordinator at our branch and a new volunteer just isn’t going to work out. How do I word it to him in an email that we don’t want him back? I think he is just out of college and doesn’t have any work experience so the mistakes he made during his first day of training for the volunteer position are due to him being a newbie. Do I point these things out (told to me by the manager who was training him) or not?

    1. fposte*

      Is this just from the first day? How egregious are we talking here? Usually I wouldn’t turf a volunteer unless they were a genuine deficit, not just short on advantage. If his newbieness is that he needs constant attention and handholding, has it been stated explicitly to him that volunteers have to work unsupervised and unattended?

      I’m torn on whether you should do it by email or in person. However, if you do go with email, I’d go for something broad rather than specific. “We thank you for your willingness to donate your time to the Carnegie Teapot Branch. However, we think our current volunteer needs are not the right fit for you. If you’re interested in being a holiday elf [or anything that’ll happen later on that he might be able to do], please let us know come December; otherwise, we’ll continue to enjoy seeing you as a patron.”

      1. Sad teapot maker*

        I would also a) be more inclined to do this in person rather than over email, unless there’s a really good reason not to and b) offer him some sort of explanation as to what’s gone wrong. For example, if like fposte said, you need somebody who could do the job unsupervised but didn’t make that clear at the ‘recruitment’ stage, I would tactfully point that out. Otherwise, he’s going to be left confused as to what he did wrong.

      2. ThatLibraryChick*

        Thanks for your example! The manager who would be supervising him doesn’t feel that he would be a good fit for the position. Despite me telling him that his first day would take about 2 hours plus training, he immediately left as soon as the training was over without doing any actual work (without telling me in advance or the manager, he just left), during training he kept telling manager how to do the job better without really spending time doing the actual work, and he kept hinting at how he hoped that this would lead to a paid position. Plus this training was a make up session as he originally was a no-show to his original start date, again with no notice or apology and I had to call/email to see what happened. All this adds up to the manager wanting to look for someone else and doing the job internally rather than work with this person again.

        1. Chaordic One*

          In light of what you’ve described, it would certainly be appropriate to say that the position, even if it is a volunteer position, requires a certain level of commitment and that you really need to be physically present for a set period of time. If he can’t make that kind of time commitment it certainly is not a good fit for him.

          1. Artemesia*

            No that invites him to promise to do better. The script is more like ‘I wanted to let you know that we don’t feel you are a good fit for this position and so we won’t be having you back.’

            If he pushes for ‘but whyyyyyy?’ you can offer something like ‘It is really important to be reliable and committed and we were not seeing that in this training session’ but you don’t need to be specific.

  70. BRR*

    So I work for a smaller organization and am a department of one. At larger organizations it could be a department of of a few dozen. I came from a larger department where I was bottom of the totem pole and love the increase in responsibilities. I find low-level tasks really annoying now especially that I get to do cool stuff. Not helping anything is some general annoyances at my office. Any advice on how to deal with the lower stuff? It’s like the rude IT department employee letter where he had to do network stuff and also desktop support except I’m not rude.

    1. misspiggy*

      In consultation with your manager, allocate fixed time periods for the low level work. The duration and frequency of these periods will need to be set based on the nature of the work and your manager’s expectations, but at least then you won’t feel like these tasks are taking over your entire job.

    2. fposte*

      Sometimes I find it helps to figure out just what it is I dislike about a task. Is it that I have to collate several documents with emails (I hate doing that, for some reason)? Is it that visible progress is slow? Is it that I have to do it in a different location that isn’t very comfortable? Sometimes this allows me to mitigate the problem (hey, I could bring a chair) or break it into chunks where the disliked chunk isn’t as contagious, and sometimes it’s weirdly helpful just to identify what specific burr is under my saddle. Also it can be helpful to identify anything you might like about the task (for me, mindlessness can be a good reward sometimes) and if it’s less dislikeable when performed more often so there’s no pileup.

    3. Slippy*

      See if you can automate the low-level tasks. If they require human intervention maybe consider educating people within the organization on how to deal with the issues themselves either via brown-bag or FAQ.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I think it matters how you frame it inside your head.
      For example, I think doing dishes is low level stuff. However, I have to have clean dishes. Some days I yell at me to go do the darn dishes. Other days I bribe me, as in do the dishes then do “fun” thing. Some days the dishes are the only thing I get right all day and I am REAL happy to do them. Once in a great while, I break a dish and that is an excuse to do “fun/consoling’ thing after the dishes are done. And yet other days, I spend an extra second enjoying my counter totally free of dirty dishes.
      Yes. I really HATE dishes. So I had to line up all these different ways of looking at the dishes in order to get myself to do them on a regular basis.

      People talk a lot about strength training. Well, they are talking about physical strength. We (society) very seldom talk about mental strength training. It takes mental strength to get through a routine task that is distasteful, boring, pointless, thankless, etc. If you can’t find anything else, congratulate yourself for being strong enough to do the same dull task over and over. I have friends that have dishes piled up very high because they just cannot find the mental strength to deal with the stupid dishes. (Sometimes I get scared that could be me, so that fear motivates me to do those dishes.)

      *Dishes. Lame analogy, but I think most people can relate.

  71. Dave*

    Got a call back for a second interview at the company I feel a bit squeamish about. They wanted me in late this week or early next but I am on the other side of the country until the end of next week. I suggested after that and they haven’t yet replied, three days later.

    I did have an interview at a firm I am really interested in. It went well and I feel it is a great fit. They asked if I would be interested in some contract work with the possibility of full-time “down the road” so I guess that is something.

    In the meantime, I am continuing to work on my resume. I got some feedback from a career coach I know–she didn’t charge me as I had done a favour for her previously–and it was very good and very thorough. But I am having trouble reframing some of my work history away from what I did to what I accomplished, and to “tell a story” about why I would be a great fit for the jobs I am applying for. It is hard because I did a lot of stuff that was stymied because of the terrible org culture where I was so it is hard to say I accomplished things exactly (but oh how I tried).

  72. ljs_lj*

    After eight or nine months of searching, I have a serious job offer. It doesn’t pay as well as I hoped I could get, but it’s a government office job so there’s all the benefits (health insurance, sick leave, vacation, etc) and if I do well in the training and continue with it long-term, the pay will improve and it will probably never be downsized. So yay for that.

    But I’m still disappointed at all the other jobs – jobs that I actually went to college and got a graduate degree for, and jobs that were adjacent to what I trained for – where I put a lot of effort into my application and then never heard from them to even get a rejection. All the jobs where I did get a rejection and it claimed that I didn’t meet the requirements. (I never applied for any job where I didn’t meet the basic requirements.) And the jobs where I did a phone interview and then never heard from them again.

    How did I get the job that I just got an offer for? I had one of the highest scores on their exam, have a decent typing speed, and didn’t totally bomb the interview. Oh, and some other people dropped out of the running because they got jobs elsewhere so I got bumped up on the list. (They’re hiring multiple people.) As long as the background check is fine (which it should be), I’m employed.

    At least the jobsite is far enough away that I can legitimize moving back out of my parents’ house – I’m in my mid-30s and I’m really, really tired of it. And being closer in to the center of the city it’ll be easier to find like-minded people to hang out with on occasion. And there will be better opportunities to do something occasionally as a volunteer or part-time or to take a few classes to build up my resume for the things that I actually trained for and maybe in a year or two I can find something in my field.

    (Or maybe, like with other office jobs I’ve had, my brain will be bored enough that I’ll have motivation to be creative again. I did so much writing when I had a data entry job years ago.)

    TLDR: I got a decent job = yay. It’s not in my field and my grad degree feels wasted = not yay.

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      Congrats! Once you’re in you can always move around to something more suited to your degree after a year or two. Or you might be surprised at what will spark your interest there.

    2. Slippy*

      If you are in a US gov job they will sometimes let you run a side business as long as it doesn’t interfere with your responsibilities or cause a conflict of interest. After about 3-6 months of the govie job you could ask about doing some freelance work in your chosen filed which might give you enough experience to fully break into it.

    3. Jennifer*

      Most people end up wasting their degrees. Degrees frequently don’t have anything to do with what job needs are out there.

      Hey, at least you’re finally employed at all! That’s better than a lot of people!

  73. Crylo Ren*

    Yet another “should I follow up” question, but hopefully this one is unconventional enough…

    Last Friday, I referred a former colleague of mine for an opening at my current company. She applied online that day and I also forwarded her resume directly to the lead recruiter with a sentence stating how I knew her and an invitation for the recruiter to contact me with any questions.

    I haven’t heard anything from the recruiter since then and my current boss, who has been conducting phone screens, mentioned that she hadn’t seen my colleague’s information come through yet. I emailed my colleague on Wednesday with some other catch-up items in the hopes that she’d also mention any responses from my employer (or lack thereof), but I haven’t heard back from her yet, which I’m not *too* worried about. I’m more worried about the lack of response from the recruiter himself.

    Would it be a good idea to follow up with the recruiter today now that it’s been a week since I referred her? Or should I just assume that she was screened out? If she is still in the running, I don’t want to do anything that would jeopardize her chances. But I would also kick myself if it turned out I could have done something more to help make sure that her information was seen.

    1. slick ric flair*

      If your manager does want to see your colleague’s resume, then yes – follow up and indicate that to the recruiter. The recruiter’s job is to facilitate the hiring manager, not the other way around.

  74. ZSD*

    A couple weeks ago, I posted about my entry-level co-worker who I thought was working unpaid overtime. I wanted to update people with some good news: I talked with someone higher-up about it, and it turns out that this person has been taking some time off mid-day some days, and I hadn’t noticed. So the late/early hours were to make up for taking that time. (I didn’t ask what made her need that time off mid-day, of course; it’s none of my business.)

  75. Sad teapot maker*

    I’ve got myself in a bit of a sorry state with my line manager, which is making working pretty miserable for me.

    Fergus has favourites and I don’t seem to be one of them. He’s quick to praise people for their input but, even though I’m doing pretty much the exact same tasks, I only ever seem to be hauled up on mistakes (which I confess that I have made some legitimate errors but he recently threatened me with disciplinary action over a small one-off, which I thought was quite out of proportion). He also treats my clients with a level of disregard that I don’t see him giving other people’s. As a result, I’ve had some pretty big deals fall through, because I can’t get Fergus to sign off on them, and it’s soured relationships I’ve had with clients.

    However, one of my biggest problems with Fergus is he doesn’t like me doing anything that can be perceived as a) keeping him out of the loop or b) going above him. To put this in context, I work for people other than Fergus so sometimes it is perfectly plausible for me to be working closer to somebody on a project than I am with him, although I do always try to keep him in the loop on what’s going on by dropping him a quick email. I’m also expressly (as in, written in black and white in my job description) supposed to have some say over some of the bigger accounts and get regular meeting time with the top bosses but Fergus seems to interpret any attempt to instigate these as a threat and starts to get snappy.

    I’m not quite sure what’s wrong with our relationship. Part of me wonders if Fergus isn’t actually sure what my job description is (or vice versa!) and therefore sees me as deliberately trying to undermine him. I’ve also heard rumours that he’s been stressed out and I’m wondering if perhaps I now should have been more sensitive in the way I’ve approached him about a couple of things.

    Either way, I’m now miserable and exhausted at work, which is making me more prone to mistakes and causing my performance in general to fall. I’m now at the point where I’m terrified it’s going to cause a major slip in my work, which is going to give Fergus something legitimate to complain about and I’ll wind up without a job. I’ve suffered with clinical depression in the past and I can feel myself starting to slip again.

    I’m not sure why I’m really typing this. I just need to get it off of my chest.

    1. JaneB*

      Much sympathy! Can you bring some of this up in an appraisal or a one -to-one, for example asking to check that your job description is up to date? I’ve worked out recently that one issue I’ve been having is that when my boss says “you must focus on ‘role’-type activities!” and then tells me I did it wrong (without any details), perhaps my understanding (mostly from current organisation and other local equivalents as I’ve only been in ‘role’ here) of the activities that belong to ‘role’ is different to his (he comes from a different organisation… although we’re both on the same national pay scale/role descriptors…). Of course, trying to get him to tell me what he means may not be easy…

      1. Sad teapot maker*

        I feel you – Fergus is a bit like that. He tells me he wants me to do one thing and then, when I actually do it, he’s still not happy. I’ve asked for more clarification but that just seems to get us going round in circles.

        I think part of the problem is, although Fergus is my line manager, there’s other managers who I’m answerable to who have some quite different views on what’s important. For example, I recently won an account that one has told me is one of my best deals to date. But when I first told Fergus about it, he couldn’t see why it was a big deal and I later discovered we almost lost it to a competitor because Fergus was initially encouraging me not to pursue it. It’s tricky to know what to focus on when there’s so many mixed messages.

        1. DoDah*

          I work for Fergus. He’s my boss because he’s been with the company longer. What I’ve done is ensure (we have a bi-weekly–and I make sure my projects are surfaced) that VP gets enough visibility into my projects that he can see my value and contribution. I think it’s working because I now have some projects in which I work with only the VP.

          I cannot wait to get out of here.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Is there any way that you can shift who you report to? Can you work under one of these nicer people?

      OR Do these nicer people have any advice about Fergus?

      If you feel yourself starting to slide back into clinical depression, take the steps you need to take in order to stop the sliding. Get that under control first.

      1. Sad teapot maker*

        Unfortunately not for the shifting reporting managers – it’s a long story, but it’s been made pretty clear that I have to stay reporting to Fergus ultimately. Advice from others could be trickier – as far as I’m aware, nobody else at my level in the hierarchy is having the same issues with Fergus and I’d feel weird approaching people at Fergus’ level as I’m worried it will make it look like I’m being difficult if nobody else is having the same problem. But thank you all the same.

  76. K130*

    Just venting: Last week I gave notice, primarily because I’m going back to school and have some family stuff to deal with. But also because things here have just gotten awful and plan to get worse. The day after, my boss’s boss (who is my old boss’s deputy, there was a weird restructuring) calls me in to his office to say “we’re surprised, we don’t want you to leave, if you change your mind, let us know what we can do” which was really irritating because I’ve been telling them for a while what they can do to keep me there and they either won’t or can’t. The way they are reassigning my work makes little to no sense and I’ve also heard in the last week some even more wackadoo changes that are being planned. I am so glad I am getting out of here. Just finishing out my share of last month’s caseload and writing continuity instructions this week. One week left!

  77. Grown up Girl Scout*

    Do Girl Scout Gold and Silver Awards belong on a resume? I had them on when I graduated high school because they were relevant and showed strong leadership/commitment for my age, and again when I graduated college and was job seeking since I didn’t have a lot else to put on. I’m now three years out of college so I wonder if they’ll look out dated if I apply for grad schools or other positions. I’ve had some good interactions with people who were either ex Girl Scouts or recognized the difficulty of achieving the award (Gold Award especially) so it might still be useful for networking. Will these awards still read strongly or is it time to take them off?

    1. LQ*

      This is one of those things that when it is a hit will be an out of the park hit, but when it is a miss will just be a eh miss and not a giant fail. But I know someone who was an Eagle Scout and left it on his entire life because he kept getting jobs because someone would see it and basically be like WE HAVE TO HIRE THIS MAN. (The last time he got hired was by someone half his age who had a dad who was an Eagle Scout.)
      Others might have other ideas on this. (It might also depend on how likely you are to have those hits.)

      1. WhichSister*

        My father was retired law enforcement then taught criminal justice for several years and loved to point out that Charles Whitman was also an Eagle Scout. Granted, Daddy had a twisted sense of humor, but his point was that doesn’t guarantee anything. So yes, some people might go :WE HAVE TO HIRE THIS GUY” (I work with someone like that) but someone else might think “Potential Mass Murderer.”

    2. fposte*

      Yeah, Gold Award is tougher than Eagle Scout but it doesn’t have the press. But I really wouldn’t leave them on at this point in your life unless you’re in a youth-related field. You can put together a different resume for networking if you like, but for job applications this doesn’t, IMHO, overcome the “high school achievements should come off now” presumption.

    3. Photoshop Til I Drop*

      I took my Gold Award off after gaining a few year’s of full-time experience in my field. I was able to bring it up in interviews a few times, though, because I continue to do volunteer work that I started during my capstone project.

      I wouldn’t mention the Silver at all, since you need it to get Gold. It’s redundant.

    4. Artemesia*

      I would not include anything high school like that unless it was paid employment or you were actually applying for work in a setting where girl scout achievements might have relevance. Men sometimes cite their Eagle Scout Status. Back in the day the equivalent for women was ‘Curved Bar’ (no idea what it is now as I think that has been dropped) But even in my youth no one looking at my qualifications knew what this was where Eagle Scout has prestige with many. If you are applying to work with a youth group or organization you might still include it at your age, but otherwise, high school is irrelevant.

    5. Bex*

      After college, I did some volunteer work for the youth group I was previously a member of. On my resume, I had the current volunteer work and the past awards/recognition on the same line.

  78. Cafe au Lait*

    A vent: my coworker cannot go with the flow. She gets agitated when asked to do something outside of her normal duties without a clear “stop time.” We’re a small office (3 people), and my colleague and I take the brunt of front desk work.

    This morning I had to leave and asked my coworker to come cover the desk. Once she got there, she asked when someone would be relieving her. (Not sure. Note: there was a high-level admin close by who is always willing to cover bathroom breaks for front desk staff). Coworker started complaining, and continued to follow-me to my office with her complaints.

    I know that she’s being over the top ridiculous, and my manager is aware that her behavior is boorish. I hate dealing with her. It’s so much effort over nothing.

    1. fposte*

      The complaining is deeply annoying, that’s for sure. But why not give an outside stop time and say that it might be earlier? If that would solve the problem, it seems like a small thing to do.

      1. Cafe au Lait*

        I’m not sure that giving her a time would solve the problem. She has access to the front desk schedule and can see when someone else is coming in. We had a student there, but we needed the student to shelve returned books. In reality, she just wanted to sit at her desk and read the Washington Post.

        Don’t get me wrong; I too hate sitting at the front desk for long periods of time. I’ve spent my entire shift on the desk between students needing to reshelve and call-ins. It’s not easy doing work out there, but it can be done.

        1. fposte*

          I’d try giving her a stop time just as an experiment. If she still bitches, then you can say “Jane, you said your concern was about the stop time; I’ve given you one, but that doesn’t seem to have solved the problem. So I think you need to talk to Manager about what’s bothering you, and you have to let me get back to work now.”

          Basically, an end time isn’t an unreasonable thing to want; if you give it to her and she still complains, then it’s about her being a complainer. But it doesn’t make sense to not try giving her the reasonable thing first when it’s no skin off your nose to do so.

  79. Librarian Ish*

    I’m in a weird supervisory position at work. Technically I am not the supervisor for our student workers, but my boss expects me to fill in for him when he’s out. Most of the time it’s not a big deal – uncomfortable, but workable.

    Recently though I’ve been having trouble with a student worker doing work while off the clock. She hangs around the front desk and will answer questions, check books in and out, etc. I’ve talked with her about how she can’t do that, and gotten pushback on it.

    I plan on talking with my supervisor when he gets back from his vacation, but I’m honestly not expecting him to understand how it’s a problem. Partly it’s because he’s salaried and doesn’t get that we have to be paid for all our time spent working – he pretty consistently interrupts me on my lunch break, for instance, and no one gets their paid breaks (I live in a state where they’re required). Obviously he could have a completely different response than I’m expecting, but what do I do if I keep seeing students working off the clock?

    1. Rincat*

      Invoke the law. Remind them (including the supervisor) it’s illegal and be very firm about that. Most people will relent if you bring up legal consequences.

    2. What's Going On? (Hey Hey Hey)*

      What is it with people thinking this is okay – especially management types? I posted a question earlier in the thread about a very similar situation and honestly, I don’t know the best way to handle it either, other than making it clear that this could expose the organization to legal liability and is setting a bad precedent for other employees to fudge their time sheets.

      If your boss is receptive, maybe it might be worth having him remind the student workers that your word is his word when he’s out of the office and that they need to take you seriously when you say things like this. Good luck! Honestly, I wish the person I’m having trouble with was just an employee – unfortunately, it’s the person in your position AND one of our workers who are all “la dee dah, I’ll just finish this up on my own time.” In front of everyone, of course.

    3. Aisling*

      Bring it up to him, but be prepared to have him say he doesn’t care. If so, then drop it- he’s the manager, you’ve brought up your concerns, but he’s the one who will have to answer for it, ultimately. It sucks, but sometimes that’s the only thing you can do.

      1. Artemesia*

        This. Your life will be happier if you don’t take on responsibility for things like this that are not your responsibility. This is a ‘have one conversation’ thing unless it actually directly gets in the way of you getting your work done.

  80. anonintheuk*

    We have a male colleague who is, for want of a better word, nosy. I don’t know whether he’s trying to make friends, fears he is missing out, or is just a total pain.
    Anyway. He kept asking a female colleague (same level)why she was rustling in her bag a couple of times, what she was looking for. She ignored him once, asked him why he asked the second time. Finally, she moved something into her pocket, got up from her desk and headed towards the door, at which he asked where she was going and what she had in her pocket.
    This time, she whirled on him and said ‘Well, since you are so desperate to know, I am off to change my tampon. Look!’ and produced a tampon and pad from her pocket.
    He has now complained to HR that he was humiliated in front of the office. I don’t manage either of them, but my thought tends to be that if you will keep battering people with nosy questions you will get an answer you don’t want.
    Thank goodness for Fridays.

    2. Sadsack*

      I hope HR told him the same thing.

      I used to work with a guy who noticed once that I had my purse as I was returning from the bathroom. He asked me why I took my purse to the bathroom with me. I said I needed it. He said, “Why would you need your purse in the bathroom?” I said nothing and went back to work. What an idiot.

      1. Menacia*

        *sigh* Guys without wives/gfs/sisters are just clueless. Nosy guy has no grounds for a complaint to HR, coworker simply *answered* his question!

      2. Sad teapot maker*

        That’s kind of adorably clueless, in a way that also makes me want to slam my head against the desk.

      3. Chaordic One*

        Well, I’ve worked in places where it really wasn’t safe to leave your purse in the office or in your desk unless it was locked in a file drawer, so it made sense to take it with you wherever you went, the bathroom, the break room, a meeting…

    3. NarrowDoorways*

      OMG, you guys.

      Last Friday, a few male coworkers were aware I’d gone on a date the night before. Morning of, they asked about the food and drinks, to which I mentioned some creative titles to their drink menu. I was feeling a little…off, so they all started loudly attributing it to the fact that I MUST be hungover.

      Well, in fact, I’d gotten my period. What’s worse it that it hurt so badly that I’d taken Pamprin, which for me has the unfortunate side effect of causing nausea. So not only was I visibly lackluster, I also didn’t eat basically all day.

      Finally, about an hour from the end of the day, when I was still getting mocking comments about being hungover, I said something along the lines of, “Hey, you know, I’m not actually hungover. Because you’re so concerned, I just want to let you know that I got my period.”

      That ended THAT. Two guys turned vibrant pink and refused to speak the rest of the day. The third man, our office manager/HR, tried to save himself by asking if I’d be better by Monday, which he tried to correct by asking if periods lasted that long. Then he trailed off, laughed, and completely dropped the hangover comments. Mission accomplished.

      1. Pearl*

        “which he tried to correct by asking if periods lasted that long”

        Well, I mean, I can send you the statistics summary my period tracking app makes for me if you’re that interested.

        1. NarrowDoorways*

          Oh yeah, I just stared at him and waited for him to realize he didn’t want to continue talking about the subject. It happened fairly quickly.

      3. Bex*

        Back when I was cocktail waitressing after college, I had a male assistant manager who was in a bratty mood and had been giving me shit all night. I had been slammed my whole shift and really really need to take two minutes to go to the bathroom and change my tampon. So I asked the assistant manager to drop a couple checks for me and he launched into a lecture about how I shouldn’t need his help and I should be out there upselling liquor instead and why was I in such a cranky mood and I should smile more, until I interrupted him with “I’m sorry, I’m cranky because I am BLEEDING from my UTERUS and I have cramps and an effing headache and I need TWO DAMN MINUTES TO GO TO THE BATHROOM BECAUSE REASONS.

        He turned beet red and was so nice the rest of my shift.

    4. Master Bean Counter*

      Don’t ask the question if you don’t want to hear the answer!
      I think she just saved many of her colleagues from future embarrassing questions.

    6. blackcat*

      Gah, I hate nosey colleagues. Another woman in my grad program, someone who I work closely with, is all pissed off that I won’t tell her what my recurring medical appointment is. She says things like “Oh, we can’t meet then because of your super secret appointment.”

      It is the worst. I do think nosey-ness is often about feeling included but UGH. Nosey people are the worst.

      1. anonintheuk*

        Oh, I have found that having my recurring physio appointment labelled as such induces a thankfully small number of people to try to tell me how to manage my condition. We are an accounting firm, therefore it is unlikely that anyone has any medical qualifications or knowledge of human anatomy.

    7. Pretend Scientist*

      “Nebby” is the Pittsburgh word for nosy. I find it to be much more representative of this kind of jerk!

  81. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

    Hey all!

    How do those of you that have temp-to-(potentially)perm employees handle their end-of-contract dates and discussions? I’m a team lead and pretty much responsible for their day-to-day, but it’s a new appointment for me. I want to make sure I’m up-front about it in a polite fashion–making sure projects transition easily and documenting their work without looking like we’re getting ready to let them go ASAP.

  82. SL #2*

    I got a promotion and a 10% raise, you guys!!!

    (If you all happen to remember, I posted a couple weeks ago about negotiating raises and what the standard rate is. A couple commenters said that they didn’t regularly see anything higher than 3%, even for high performers. So imagine how shocked I was when my boss told me what percentage the bump was going to be.)

    4. Lady Dedlock*

      That’s awesome! Would be curious to hear how you approached the conversation, if you feel like sharing.

      1. SL #2*

        Funny enough, I didn’t have to. I was all ready and geared up to approach the topic of a raise at the end, and then my boss told me that she’d already decided on the promotion and the raise and if I was okay with both, we’ll fill out the paperwork right away. I certainly wasn’t going to argue against a 10% bump, especially since that was higher than what I’d planned to negotiate for.

        When prepping for the conversation that didn’t happen, though, I went over my self-evaluation forms and I made a list of accomplishments over the past year. Within that list, I picked out a few high-impact projects that really helped out the organization, and decided that I would focus on those during the conversation. I think the key is to have examples of what you’ve done to be a strong hire for the company. Why is the company better off because of the work you did over the year?

  83. The Mighty Thor*

    To Alison and my fellow AAM readers: I read Lifehacker often, and they regularly post career advice articles. Do you read these Lifehacker articles? If so, what do you think?

    1. Manders*

      I don’t get a ton of value out of the articles specifically about career advice–they usually seem to rely on these over-broad generalizations based on narrow scientific studies, like “you’re more creative in the afternoon.” But I have picked up some good organization-related tidbits from them–that’s where I first head about Habitica, which really has helped me make a lot of positive changes at work and at home.

    2. Pwyll*

      I’m a long time Lifehacker reader who feels pretty strongly that the quality of the publication has decreased significantly since its founder Gina Trapani left. I find much of their career advice either merely republishes other stories, or I downright disagree with (there was a story awhile back about how difficult it can be to work somewhere corporate because of the lack of transparency, i.e. people getting laid off without the rest of the employees having advanced notice. The solution advised was to talk often with your supervisor about everything in hopes of gleaning the things she isn’t telling you.)

  84. Amber*

    I was having a discussion with my boss about a slightly difficult topic (nothing super critical, just a scope of work issue where I was trying to express some hesitations about certain aspects of the work). And, long story short, I burst out crying. Sobbing. I have never cried in front of a coworker before. Ever. It stemmed from the fact that I’d had an extremely vivid dream the night before about a loved one who’d passed away (not too recently, but not like a decade ago, either). I’m embarrassed. My boss reacted well, but now I’m worried my professional image is tarnished. I did explain my tears had nothing to do with the discussion and gave a brief explanation. Has this happened to anyone before? Did it impact you in the future in the workplace? Any advice?

    1. Manders*

      I totally did this a few months ago. My boss’s boss was unhappy that a project hadn’t turned out the way he wanted it and had very unrealistic expectations about how quickly I could redo it. I’d been dealing with a lot of stress about a family member’s illness and I just couldn’t hold the tears back. I was totally mortified, but I think I haven’t damaged my reputation too much (I also told my direct supervisors about my family member’s illness and they seemed sympathetic, which helped).

    2. GOG11*

      I burst out sobbing in a one-on-one with my manager once. We were discussing possible accommodations for a disability I have and one of the accommodations would have been leaving the position I was in at that time for another one. The prospect of losing the team I really enjoy working with coupled with a sudden reminder of how life-altering my medical problems can be was just too much in that moment. I composed myself, apologized and continued with the meeting without losing it again. She was supportive and patient, and it doesn’t seem to have affected my relationship with her.

    3. fposte*

      There’s an AAM column with pretty much this exact question. I’ll post the link in followup or you can just put “crying” into the search box.

    4. Lemon Zinger*

      I teared up pretty badly during a performance review. I managed to keep from full-on crying, and I don’t think my manager noticed. It wasn’t good, though. She could definitely tell that I was upset. It just made me more resolved to not show any kind of negative emotion to her.

    5. DoDah*

      I’m going to come across as unsympathetic. I’ve never cried in the office but I know women who have. One in particular, was referred to as “the person who cried” for years after the incident. This was a fairly toxic workplace. But frankly–I’ve only ever seen it as reputation damaging.

      I don’t think it should be this way–but this has been my experience. I’m in tech–BTW–so there is little regard for feelings.

      1. catsAreCool*

        I’m in tech and female, and I’ve cried a few times at work. Twice I was able to get to the bathroom for some privacy first. Once, I was so angry, I cried. Fortunately, I wasn’t angry with the person I was talking to, and he (a tech guy) seemed reasonably OK about it. My feeling is that you want to avoid crying if you can or at least cry in private, and never use it as a crutch to get out of stuff, but there are plenty of people who understand that this happens sometimes to some people.

    6. zora.dee*

      I tear up when I get angry, and I hate it! It has made a few situations even more aggravating for me, because the other party completely misunderstands what is happening.

      Most recent, ex-boss was forcing me out because she just didn’t like me for some reason, even though I loved the job, and every single other employee there told me I was doing an incredible job. I was temp to perm, and applied for the permanent job, but my boss took me aside to tell me I wasn’t even getting to interview, they were hiring someone else. And I was so mad that she wasn’t even giving me a chance, that I started to tear up, and then she was all “Oh, I know, I’m sad, too!” and gave me a HUG, eeewwwwww!!! I am so mad at you, I don’t want to hug you! RAWR!

      I get really mad at my tear ducts sometimes.

    7. snowball*

      I cry when I am really frustrated and trying to stand up for myself. It’s rarely a reaction to feedback that is given to me (except for that one time I was really stressed, said something bitchy to a coworker, and she [correctly] called me on it).

      Fortunately, it has not really hindered me, other than getting constructive feedback like “If you are really upset about something, leave and go for a walk”.

  85. Fish Microwaer*

    Not strictly work related but I was buying a takeout bacon, egg and cheese sandwich and the server wrote BEC on the brown bag. Made me smile.

  86. Buffay the Vampire Layer*

    Should I follow up with this recruiter?

    I was cold called last Thursday (the 28th) for an opportunity that sounds really interesting to me. During that conversation the recruiter told me that the organization was going to be doing all of ours interviews this coming Tuesday the 9th. I told her that I’m actually going out of town starting then and asked if it would be a deal breaker. She said she’d check.

    She got back to me the next day (the 29th) saying they would interview me early and we set up a screening interview which took place over Skype on Sunday. I thought it went well and she said she’d get my resume over to the organization and then set up an interview.

    It’s now Friday and I haven’t heard from this recruiter since. I assume that the organization passed on me and she is just dropping it. But should I follow up just in case? I could make a Monday interview if they’re interested after all.

    1. Buffay the Vampire Layer*

      Ha, never mind. I had the recruiter’s prior email open in my gmail when a little message popped up at the bottom saying she’d responded to the thread. Timing is everything.

  87. animaniactoo*

    I’m a little nervous/freaked out at the moment. Earlier this year I pushed implementing actively using the project management software we are signed up for within my department. My boss had hesitations about it, but based on what I’ve done as unofficial team lead was willing to look into it more and agree to try it out. At one point during the setup process, she basically eviscerated me in a team meeting for not sharing enough and jumping ahead where I was all “um. I’m getting it to the point where I *can* share, there’s nothing to do until it’s relatively setup (as discussed that it would be) and we can talk about what’s there, etc.”

    I talked to her about that afterwards, and turned out that one of my co-workers wasn’t really on board with doing it and as he’s her main griping support system, she was unwilling to tell him to just deal and see how it went (not what she said, but pretty clear from the conversation we had). She had me take just my two co-workers who would be using the system identically to how I will be using it and walk them through the setup. After that meeting they were on board with trying it out as it was.

    It’s now been in place for about 3 months or so, lots of pieces working very well, some pieces not working so well. For the past month or so, there’s been a push to evaluate and implement changes to make it work better. I’ve stepped back and let that come from her assistant as I’d already aggravated her enough with all of this… although when she pushed it off last meeting after asst raised it, I did say we should try to make sure the changes to go into place before the next round of projects come through.

    Yesterday, I asked her if we could have the meeting today, she was OOO today, but told me Monday should work. Then on the way out of the office for the day, she told me to go ahead and set it up. She has always sent out the meeting invites and run the meetings on any of this, even though I and others have taken over at points to present parts. But now I’m in limbo and I can’t tell if she’s expecting me to run the meeting overall. I did set up the meeting and send out the invites (involves all of my department not just the 2 co-workers, plus 2 other people from another dept who we work closely with). I can’t tell if she’s settled into the change and using the software and is now looking to me to go ahead and continue to lead up how we implement it or what. And I’m a tad nervous about getting eviscerated again. Even after stressing at the last meeting that I didn’t want to just implement changes I wanted everybody to be able to discuss current issues in using it, make suggestions, and agree on a path before we do that.

    tl:dr I set something up with my manager’s approval that she was nervous about, it’s been stressful from the beginning because of her ongoing resistance and need to be convinced of its benefits particularly in the face of her pet favorite’s grumbling over not seeing the need for it. There have been some clear benefits since the implementation, now it’s evaluation/revision time and I’m confused/nervous about the role she seems to be expecting me to play and potential flack again after having been blasted in the last team meeting while it was still being setup.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Ugh. I hate this stuff. All I have ever been able to conclude is unless someone is totally stopping me, then I probably should just keep going.

      Assume she will run the meeting, but quietly build a plan in case she says that you should run the meeting. That way you won’t be stepping on her toes but you won’t be caught short, either.

      Maybe you can email her and ask her if she has had a chance to try the software? Maybe at some point you can ask her thoughts on the implementation process. But, she may answer that second question just in the process of talking about other things. Nerve-wracking but stay calm, cool and collected. Just go one step at a time, get through that step then think about the next one.

  88. DonnaN*

    How do you handle a situation when managers don’t take your concerns seriously even after HR involvement. Do you go to HR yourself? What if you were afraid of getting fired?

    1. Augusta Sugarbean*

      I think it’s going to be really hard to say without knowing what your concerns are. Safety? Sexual harrassment? Annoying coworker like using the nickname Ash when Ashley has said “don’t do that” like the above comment. Can you give a little more information?

      2. fposte*

        Usually people mean sexual when they say harassment, but just in case–if it’s based on race, religion, or disability, those would also be “go to HR” situations.

        1. DonnaN*

          Hi! Thanks for everyone replying… I much appreciate it! It is not sexual, more like verbal assaults on social media. Concerns were brought to HR and it was just swept under the rug. The person was talked to but I feel more should have been done. Our company very small so hard to say something but really want to go to HR again myself. Thanks for your help.

            1. DonnaN*

              Verbal slandering on social media. They have made fun of and mentioned how much they disliked coworkers. When mentioned to management they looked into it but did nothing. The social media assaults have toned down but still there’s concern. In any other company you would’ve been fired for what she said about coworkers but our company doesn’t like firing anyone. Thinking the coworker should go to HR instead of going thru management again but afraid to got hr and over management heads.

  89. Augusta Sugarbean*

    I’m applying for an Office Specialist Lobby Staff Lead position with our municipal government (medium sized ruralish county). The duties are lots of standard administrative assistant stuff plus some receptionist stuff plus “leading the work of up to seven part-time temporary employees”. It sounds a little like a catch-all position because tacked on at the bottom of the job duties are 1) tidying up the building bathrooms (paper and water spills and putting in maintenance requests) and 2) litter patrol (walking the grounds of the county buildings daily and picking up litter).

    I can probably live with the bathroom tidying but the litter patrol gives me pause. Is it weird to anyone else to include that with an administrative assistant/lead worker job? I mean it’s probably good for me to take breaks and walk around outside but this is Oregon where it rains nine months out of the year and I don’t love the idea of being soggy for half the day. Shouldn’t this fall under janitorial/maintenance? Am I being too picky?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      That is really odd. Even thought it’s a government position, they should have some kind of maintenance/landscaping crew that handles litter. You should go through with applying, but be sure to ask in the interview (if you get one) what exactly the litter patrol entails.

      1. Augusta Sugarbean*

        Thanks. That’s kind of what I’m thinking. It might be a red-ish flag on how they regard the position – weird, catch-all duties and very weird use of resources.

  90. LawCat*

    I’d like some posture improvement opinions. I have been having pain in my neck/shoulders and I think it is, at least in significant part, because I have poor posture and a crappy chair (hopefully my next job will have a better chair). I definitely hunch over at my computer. I work at a computer most of the day. I straighten up when I realize I am hunching over, but most of the time I am unaware that I am doing it. How can I improve my posture at work? Any tips on chairs, supports, or anything else that will help me correct how I am sitting?

    1. July*

      I’ve had a great deal of success changing what I wear a bit. Tighter waistbands (that is, tailored or belted: not the wrong size) tend to squish me a bit when I slump, causing me to straighten up without even thinking about it. It’s also been helpful to me to manage stress. Sometimes my hunch is actually that “shoulders at ears” feeling. If manage the stress, the hunch goes away on its own.

    2. LCL*

      Get your eyes checked. Figure out how and MEASURE how far away you want to sit from your screen, and tell the Doctor you want near vision glasses for computer use. If you don’t want to do that, tweak your different computer programs type and font settings until they are easier to read. Drugstore reading glasses may help.
      The basic hypothesis for these suggestions is, I believe people hunch over their computer screen in an attempt to see it better.

    3. Expected to pay more than my fair share*

      You might want to make adjustments to the computer set up. But really it’s like any other habit you want to change, you have to conscientiously work on it. Also you might want to see a chiropractor to get your neck into alignment. I have neck issues and make an appointment whenever I get certain symptoms.

    4. Lumo*

      I use a Lumo Lift – it clips on your bra strap or connects to your shirt with a magnet and vibrates when you slouch. It also acts as a pedometer. It is unobtrusive and just the reminder I need to sit up straight. (You can also turn off the notifications if you’re having a bad day and just need to slouch.)

    5. James Buchanan Burn*

      Core strengthening. Part of it is bad habits, but part of it is muscular weakness that makes poor posture easier than good posture. The stronger your deep core muscles are, the easier it will be to rest in a way that doesn’t make you hurt after a while. I struggled with poor posture for years because I thought of it primarily as a character defect, but when I worked on strength it got SO much better.

  91. July*

    How do I network? I live in a college town with a population of 150,000 and about an hour away from a substantially larger city. I’m not an academic, but most all of my social circle is. I am changing fields and feel like I should be building my professional network while I’m still in school. But I’m not sure how to go about this: I’m not a member of the dominant religion in the area, so church is out. I’m in my 30s and married but without kids, so moms’ groups are out. I live in a very conservative state while being quite liberal myself, so it kinda seems like political events are out too. How do people meet people outside their bubble?

    1. fposte*

      I don’t generally use social networking for professional purposes anyway, though admittedly since I *am* an academic they get pretty tough to differentiate.

      I would, for one thing, ask professors and student affairs people at your program, but I’d mainly focus on professional conferences and groups for that field you’re moving to. Obviously that’s field dependent, but a lot of professions have state conferences, and there’s probably something periodic in that substantially larger city.

  92. Green Square*

    I decided to resign the job I talked about last week. I’m putting health and happiness first, for the first time in my professional life. Thanks to everyone who gave advice.

    1. Dawn*

      Yeahhhh!!! Drink lots of [tea/cocktails/bourbon] and spend some serious time [baking/painting/playing video games] and give yourself a LOT of love and space to recover your health and happiness :)

    2. K130*

      Good for you putting health and happiness first. I know it was probably a tough (and scary) decision.

    3. Mreasy*

      Congratulations! Scary stuff but you’ve made a strong decision that proves you’ve got toughness and mental fortitude to bring to your next (not toxic! not horrible!) job.

  93. Underpaid Accountant*

    I wanted to thank posters for their advice last week about looking into corporate accounting. I’m in the process of applying to 3 jobs but they want 5 years experience to my 9. the descriptions sound interesting though. They’re through 3rd party recruiters so I can’t cite “your company is interesting to me because” so how should I address this?

    Sorry it’s been a while for me. Thanks in advance.

    1. TheCupcakeCounter*

      A lot of corporations will be happy for more experience than the add. You will probably need to be clear with the recruiters your salary requirements and make sure you get info up front about what the salary range is. I am guessing that they might initially balk at your experience so you really need to make a great cover letter that emphasizes what you can bring to the table and that you are excited about learning the other side. Hopefully you will get to a phone interview stage and really impress the socks off of them.
      Do everything in your power to not tell them what you are making!!!!

  94. JustVenting*

    I found out today that my coworker, R, who was hired the same time as me to do the same work with the same title and responsibilities (and, from conversations I’ve had with him, we have nearly-identical backgrounds in this field) has a considerably higher salary than me. There’s a part of me that very much suspects that my boss’s sexism is in play, since I’m the only female tech in the company and there have been numerous instances of him treating me differently than my male coworkers. Everything from the type of work I’m given, to the fact that he treats me more like his personal assistant than a tech, to the way he always talks down to me… Finding out that my male coworker makes so much more than me is just infuriating right now. Especially since R told me the other day that he’s been put on a PIP for his poor work, while my boss has always been impressed with the work I produce. But I still can’t get a raise from him no matter what I try. I’m at my wits end here but I don’t know if I should start job hunting now because there’s a good chance I’ll be moving out-of-state in a year anyway.

    I’m glad its Friday. Maybe on Monday I’ll be less irritated by this…

    1. Dawn*

      KEEP BEING IRRITATED! Seriously, this is some crap, you know it’s crap, and you need to either GTFO or call him out on his crap.

  95. Ask a Manager* Post author

    From time to time, I’ve talked here about going after other sites that steal content from here. Here’s the most recent:

    Earlier this week a reader informed me that a site called The HR Digest was reprinting Ask a Manager posts as their own, with just minor tweaks to wording (with no permission and no attribution, totally violating copyright law). Their most recent was the one about the employee putting black magic curses on her coworkers, which made it pretty easy to spot.

    I contacted the site on Wednesday to tell them to remove the posts. Yesterday morning, the editor emailed me, “We follow strict norms when it comes to content and ideas. Thank you for letting us know. We are investigating this matter and I assure you strict steps will be taken to whoever has made this mistake, may it be a freelancer or a staff-writer.”

    Great, I thought. Then I looked at the site later that day and discovered that rather than removing the posts, they’d just added a line to the bottom of each that said “idea credit: Ask a Manager.” I wrote them again and told them that wasn’t acceptable — it was still plagiarism and still copyright violation.

    I heard nothing back, but today I checked the site and now they’ve removed the “idea credit” line (although I still have screenshots of it) and overnight someone appears to have hastily rewritten all the posts so that in most cases, there’s mostly no actual plagiarism of language left (although they weren’t entirely thorough). The overall copied ideas for letters still remain.

    You can see it here:
    https://www.thehrdigest.com/resources/q-a-with-jane/

    Stealing other people’s work is such a huge journalistic sin that I can’t understand why this site is digging in so hard, when they’ve admitted the work was stolen. It’s making me very cranky today…

        2. Adam V*

          Yes, please get one. I see things like this and I say “that’s something that’s likely to make Alison want to post less” and it makes me mad.

        3. Megs*

          I would bet that it would be a good investment. They’ve only got to draft the letter once, after all, then it’s just a matter of changing names and firing it off as needed.

        4. animaniactoo*

          1) Pretty sure that you can file a DMCA takedown notice to them yourself.
          2) I found an article that still had the “idea credit” and I think it was all the original language still up. I screenshot including the date on my computer bar, and can send to you, or you can grab yourself. It’s the one on page 3 about employer wants them to return half their salary. What’s most interesting about it is that I *think* it’s got a publication date prior to yours, and am wondering if they’re “editing” the publication dates, but I could be completely out to lunch on that. And if I’m not oh boy did they just shoot themselves in the foot because they’re crediting you at the same time as claiming to have published before you.

          1. Adam V*

            I also noticed even though they’ve changed the title on their site, their Twitter links still have the original names, like the “curses” one:

            https://twitter.com/TheHRDigest/status/760816217628119041

            https://www.thehrdigest.com/black-magic-work/

            Oh, this is even better – the one about “Nerf gun battles at work” became “my coworker is bringing a gun”:

            https://twitter.com/TheHRDigest/status/754244498423623680

            https://www.thehrdigest.com/qa-jane-office-nerf-gun-battles/

          2. Ask a Manager* Post author

            Oh my goodness — I just looked at them again and they’ve been further rewritten, terribly. So terribly that I’m almost willing to let them have the topic ideas because these rewrites are so god-awful that it’s almost more of a punishment for them to have them appear on their site.

            I wasn’t able to find the post you mentioned so yes, if you can send it to me, that would be great, so I can look into whether they’re mucking around with the publication dates now.

            Oh, and I do send DMCA notices myself, constantly. They usually work. But I’d like to have someone deal more harshly with situations like this one.

            2. animaniactoo*

              Wait! Retract! (I really need to doublecheck myself before posting) They DID INDEED CHANGE THE PUBLICATION DATE. To one week *prior* to yours. Possibly to say that writer submitted to both your site and theirs but there is too much crossover in letter selection for that to be believable. I sent the link to the letter here along with the screenshots.

              1. animaniactoo*

                Cripes I can’t read. I’m going off to take a sanity pill or something. Different years, yours prior to theirs.

        5. Ultraviolet*

          You need to write to Jane and ask her what to do when another website steals your content.

          1. Dynamic Beige*

            Jane really is the worst coworker ever… maybe this is her revenge for all the letters that feature her name!

    2. Megs*

      That is appalling! I hope they pull their heads out of their butts, but the hasty re-writing makes me think that’s unlikely.

    3. Student*

      Should probably start with a lawyer-type cease-and-desist letter instead of being so friendly about it. They’re red-handed thieves, so you don’t have to be kind about it. If it was an honest mistake on the content-provider’s end, they’ll respond fine to the strict legal knock-it-off and be mortified. If it’s not an honest mistake, they’ll decide you’re too much effort to cross, likely well before any actual legal action takes place. You don’t have to outrun the hyenas, you just have to run faster than a couple other bloggers.

    4. Total Rando*

      I don’t understand how a site that would publish ADVICE columns would have such bad ethics as to do something like that. I’m sorry this is happening. Let us know if there’s anyway that we can help as your readers!

      1. Natalie*

        It seems like they are only publishing the craziest letters. I’d venture their only concern is driving traffic, ethics be damned.

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m sorry this is happening to you. Sucks. I don’t know how far this will get you, but have you tried contacting their web host? (Wired Tree, apparently, from a WhoIs search.)

    6. Mockingjay*

      And look at what is at the very bottom of the page, on the jerk’s site:

      “Protected by Copyscape Online Copyright Protection. Do Not Copy.
      © 2016 THE HR DIGEST. All rights reserved.”

      They should investigate themselves.

    7. Cath in Canada*

      Ugh. Sorry, Alison, that’s frustrating. Last year I found out that someone has been plagiarizing large chunks of my articles (and of other people’s, and of Wikipedia articles – I Googled other sections that seemed to be in a different voice and some of them were pretty much verbatim). I contacted the editor and they replied, saying they were taking it extremely seriously etc., but those articles are still online months later and the guy is still writing plagiarized articles for them.

      Oh, and my photo of my extremely famous cats is almost never credited to me, even though it’s shown up all over the internet, including on George Takei’s Facebook page (!!). Oh well, in that case I’d rather have the cats than the credit.

    8. Annie Moose*

      Aww, it’s disappointing that they’re handling this in such a terrible manner. I’m not familiar with the site in general, I wonder if their other articles are also “sourced” (aka stolen) from other sites?

      If you do talk to a copyright lawyer about this, remember that even if they change the wording on the site, you can probably still find old versions of the text through the Wayback Machine (https://archive.org/web/). Good thing you’ve got screenshots, too.

    9. Adam V*

      I wonder if “Jane Harper” is even a real person. There’s no real detail on her profile on that site, and I can’t find any other particularly good matches on Google or LinkedIn (although I didn’t look very hard). Honestly, I wonder if the editorial staff just said “hey, let’s steal some stories from around the internet and repost them here under an assumed name”.

      Here’s another interesting article attributed to Jane:

      https://www.thehrdigest.com/leadership-lessons-from-apple/

      Note that though it’s titled “Leadership Lessons from Apple”, the first paragraph ends by mentioning Apple, Martin Luther King, and the Wright Brothers… and neither Martin Luther King nor the Wright Brothers are mentioned again in the article.

      However, there’s a TED talk from 2009 by Simon Sinek entitled “How great leaders inspire action”, and his examples are… Apple, Martin Luther King, and the Wright Brothers. And if you note the first link, about halfway through the second paragraph is a sentence that begins “Here in the video, Simon explains…”

      Link to the TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action?language=en#t-57358

        1. Adam V*

          Seriously, you’d think that would make it easier for them – they email you back and say “We fired ‘Jane’, it won’t happen again” and take all the articles down.

      2. zora.dee*

        Oh. Em. Gee.

        I just skimmed a few different posts by “Jane Harper” and I’m pretty sure they hired a content generator from a non-English speaking country to rewrite every single post in slightly different wording super quickly. Because every post (including the reader’s questions) are riddled with grammatical errors and weirdly structured sentences.

        That site is horrible, I wish there was a way to publicly out them. UGH!
        And seconding the offer to help if there is anything the readers can do, let us know!

        1. zora.dee*

          omg, just occurred to me, another possibility is they threw it all in google translate to another language and then back to English! these people apparently have no shame.

    10. OlympiasEpiriot*

      I don’t know a copyright lawyer. This is disgusting and I’m so sorry you are going through it.

      I subscribe to the fantastic Flick Filosopher for my movie reviews and discussion and on her site there is the following:

      DON’T STEAL THIS SITE
      Copyright (c) 1997-2016 MaryAnn Johanson. All rights reserved. No content appearing on this site may be reproduced, reposted, or reused in any manner without express written permission. [email]

      If you plagiarize my work, I will find you, and I will publicly shame you.

      She has done the last bit. It worked. Even got some press about that, iirc.

      All of this is an awful lot of work. Commiserations.

      1. M*

        They are based out of India and look very shady – the only “employee” is Diane Coker on Facebook that went to Columbia Journalism School; I think it’s a fake profile to add further legitimacy. I’d try sending a cease and desist letter through LinkedIn to this guy, email address in his summary.

        https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=115097768918826&id=100012558101378&set=a.115098525585417.1073741827.100012558101378&source=48

        https://in.linkedin.com/in/gauravsoniseo

  96. SleeplessInCO*

    Hey everyone. I could really use your advice. I’ll try to be brief; sorry if this is difficult to understand, as there’s a lot of baggage that I can’t include without writing a novel!

    My colleague and I are having major issues with out direct supervisor. From my perspective, he’s impossible to compromise with, petty, spiteful, and severely lacking in basic communication responsibilities, all of which makes our unit highly inefficient and even toxic. We recently hired a new department head who is all of our boss. My colleague and I were scheduled to have a meeting with our new Big Boss alone, where we could air our greviances and perhaps bring our direct supervisor into the conversation later, once we’ve had a chance to speak candidly about our issues with Big Boss.

    But our direct supervisor caught wind of the meeting, and now he’s included. One the one hand, it could be beneficial to have him there; he gets away with a lot of manipulation and misrepresentation in one-on-one situations, negative behavior that could be exposed in this meeting.

    On the other hand, I am nervous about being honest. I don’t want it to seem like I’m airing dirty laundry and tattling to Big Boss, but what I’ve dealt with has made me so miserable that I just want SOMEONE to listen. Plus, the relationship between my colleague and me is a bit strained: my workload is much, much heavier than his, but he won’t really budge when it comes to sharing responsibilities. My head is just spinning trying to figure out how to approach this meeting. Any ideas?

    1. Random Lurker*

      Question for you: have you shared your grievances with your supervisor already? That can be tough to do if he’s difficult to work with. But your message to the big boss will be more powerful (and more favorable on you) if your supervisor has been made aware of this in the past.

      If you have, document, document, document.

      1. SleeplessInCO*

        Thank you so much for your response! You’re exactly right: I have brought many concerns to my supervisor, but because he is so difficult to work with, I leave feeling unheard and with nothing accomplished. He seems to flippantly disregard my issues – like, for example, he’s slowly drained my resources while increasing my workload, and then has criticized me for not producing more output (as though I could do it if I just tried harder, even though I work 6-7 days a week for half the year). And he is like a brick wall when it comes to compromising.

        I will admit we haven’t had as much communication as of late, because he seems to have been avoiding me since one incident several months ago when he condescendingly responded “because I said so” when I asked a clarifying question about something. I’ve been looking for new jobs ever since, but in the meantime, I’m stuck…

  97. TheCupcakeCounter*

    3 systems upgrades or changeovers going on with go-live dates within 6 weeks of each other. I never want to hear the word “test” again.

  98. lesautrui*

    Hey everyone!
    I’m a relatively new manager (promoted late last year), and I’m curious about something as I navigate my ‘managerial style.’ Relevant info: I work remotely and so does my team, so the majority of our communications are via Slack IM or email.

    How often should I say ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ as a manager (to my team)? I tend to say it quite often, like anytime I’m asking someone to do a task I try to say ‘please,’ and I always thank them after a task is complete, even if it’s just a small revision/tweak on an existing assignment or answering a question I have. I think this is just my personality… do you all think it’s overkill, or just polite/kind? Any guidelines or advice anyone would like to share here?

    1. TheUnexpectedDragon*

      For what it’s worth, I’m in an almost identical boat. I say “thank you” a lot, but “please” very rarely. I’m telling them, not asking for something to be done, but I’m still glad they did it.

    2. Kobayashi*

      I think please and thank you are a okay. It is true that as a manager, you can just give direction without making it sound like a request. Saying things like, “Please get me the Goober project by Monday a.m.” is fine. Saying something like, “If it’s not too much trouble, could you please get me the Goober project by Monday a.m.” is not (in my opinion – as it diminishes your authority and makes it seem like an optional request). Thank yous are less problematic, but if you always say “thank you” then I’d make sure sometimes you put in some specifics so they don’t start sounding stale. For example: “Thank you for getting me the Goober report, and I found section X particularly intriguing. Your attention to detail on the graphs is stellar. Good job!” Just once in a while, of course, when it’s merited. There, you have my two cents. Don’t spend them all in one place! :)

    3. Pwyll*

      tldr: Use please and thank you.

      I’ve worked for CEOs and Partners in the past who always, always, always, in e-mails or in person, used “please” and “thank you.”

      “I’ll need to be in New York by 8 AM if you can please make that work?” “Can you get the report done by 4? Thank you you much.” “Please setup lunch with Bob at the Grille. Thanks, I really appreciate it.”
      None of those things were optional: they were all orders and not questions. But I always knew they were appreciated and they showed me common courtesy.

      1. Aurion*

        I was going to write something longer, but Pwyll basically summed it up.

        Use please and thank you. It doesn’t diminish your authority, but it can definitely increase your goodwill with others.

      1. lesautrui*

        Thanks for confirming this, Alison!

        I know it seems like a small thing, but we all know precise communication really matters. Especially when it comes to things we say every day, multiple times a day.

        I’ll keep on keepin’ on!

    5. fposte*

      I use please and thank you in just about every email communication. I think their absence is felt more keenly when you’re not face to face.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      FWIW, I worked for people who never said please and thank you as they felt it was a show of weakness.
      I said it loud and clear and OFTEN. Yes, it matters. Yes, it sets a tone for the group, a good tone.
      Dinosaurs think it is a good idea to never say please and thank you. Modern bosses and coworkers say it OFTEN.

  99. LQ*

    1 week to find out of I got into our Leadership program. I’m very nervous about it. I’ve been trying to set it aside as assume I won’t get in but I’m really hoping I do. It would be a huge opportunity for me and a pretty big recognition of my value to the org. It’s been a while since I applied so I’ve done good setting it out of my head but now that I’m down to just a week I’m starting to panic a little.

    1. shep*

      Good luck! Waiting is one of the cruelest games. I sent writing out on submission periodically each year and the waiting is often far worse than rejections.

      1. LQ*

        Thank you! Waiting is like AAAA just tell me! (Though I’ll admit I’ll be really down if I get a rejection on this. It’s not like I can do another so that’ll be a bit of a kick in the teeth.)

  100. Ollie*

    One of my duties is to keep track of our sales staff’s client portfolios. Our head of sales left a few months ago and before he left, he assigned various team members to take care of his clients temporarily, with the understanding that the entire portfolio would be transferred to his replacement when someone was hired. The company just announced that they have hired an someone to take his place–and now my boss has come to me and is demanding that I transfer about 10 people in the head of sales’ portfolio to her before the new hire starts, since she now has relationships with these people. I declined to do so because we had agreed to keep the portfolio for the new person–I am also concerned because the transfer also represents about 10% of the portfolio, including some really plum clients, and I don’t think it makes a good first impression to hand over a raided portfolio to our new department head. I tried to explain that it would be best to wait and talk over the proposed transfers with our new boss when she arrives, but now my boss is really furious at me and is basically saying that I am insubordinate. Do you think I should have just done what she wanted–or should I go back and do that now?

    1. Adam V*

      Unless your boss is going to be higher in the hierarchy than the new head of sales, I would have done what you’re doing – tell her “this is what we agreed to when Richie left”, perhaps with the amendment “maybe you can talk to Fergus about it when he starts work”.

      I might also try to find a way to let Fergus know that Suzy was trying to steal some of his new accounts, and see if he could keep an eye out for any potential retaliation she might point at you.

    2. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd*

      What I’m reading is that your boss, to whom you directly report and who has authority over you, told you to do something and you refused to do it?

      I can’t see that as anything but insubordination. Unless there is something you’ve left out here, the advice I’d give is to apologize profusely and do what she told you to do.

      1. Clever Name*

        Yeah, this is what I’m thinking too. You can certainly push back saying that you understood it would be handled another way, but it is basically your job to do what your boss asks (obviously I’m not talking about illegal or highly unethical things).

  101. JaneB*

    tl;dr – Everything is changing at work, and I don’t like it – but I need to do better at acting professional and choosing my battles. Looking for any advice!

    Some context:
    I work at a University in the UK which is undergoing a ‘change journey’ and ‘refreshing all aspects of activity’. It’s doing this with minimal money and largely untrained managers who were appointed for being good at the role they were leaving, not at managing, or for being good at enthusing about the ‘vision’ being promulgated from above. In the last two years, I’ve moved office from a space I loved to one which I am told is ‘better’ but does not suit me at all, lost ‘my lab’ (my work/students is/are now supposed to share space with other methods, and that is NOT working out, but the new space is SHIny & EXPENSIVE so clearly better), had the programme I lead cancelled, been an active part of the team completely redesigning the curriculum, as a result of those two things I will no longer teach any higher level courses and will only teach about three weeks of stuff relevant to my training, had my administrative responsibilities removed because they are ‘low level’ and need to be done by a ‘trained administrator’… and various of my most supportive colleagues, especially among the support staff, have left through early retirement or been managed out through inappropriate redeployments (give them a job they can’t do well, watch them find themselves another job, too long so bad). Also, there’s massive building work, but no money to pay for the travel we have to do (conferences etc.) in order to get satisfactory on our appraisals (so you pay out of pocket or don’t meet expectations. It’s all for the good of the University! and conferences are career-building therefore we attend them on our own time!).

    In the last two months: a merger has created a super-department from my former department and four units from another part of the University, all with very different foci, histories etc., new regulations are being brought in (but have not been circulated for comment yet), the new curriculum starts with the new academic year in September, but we have no room allocations, staffing problems outstanding, a new electronic learning management system which is not actually available to use yet (and the training – I’ve attended them all, and was part of the pilot last year – is woefully inadequate), and new higher performance targets for income generation… it’s not eactly been restful.

    Personal context: I have generalised anxiety and depression, both managed through long term medication, and several minor physical limitations/tendency to get sick which I try to manage via a 4-day-a-week contract (because that was the only way I could get a guaranteed work from home day despite University policy AND a no-scheduled meetings or classes day per week being implied in the contract and promised every year). I react badly to change, and to stress. Our current boss is a very nice person and a lousy manager, directly responsible for the line management of about 40 people with minimal support, so even if he was a GOOD manager he’d struggle. And under the new system he will be directly responsible for about 80 people. No delegation of line management or budget approval allowed (although there will be relatively powerless ‘area leads’ appointed, but not yet in post).

    He makes inappropriate comments, shares information piecemeal, replies to about 10% of emails with no triage (so not the most important/urgent stuff), is erratic (will say “do X” then a week later “why they heck are you doing X it’s stupid have you no sense?” and deny he ever meant do X even if it’s all documented in emails and minutes), likes to manage by random drop-ins, is a black hole when it comes to paperwork and approvals, and thinks everything the University is doing is excellent. Higher levels LOVE him and hold him up as an example (I should perhaps say, my department was the top performer across the board before he was appointed from a ‘better’ institution (from a non-managerial role), and we still are on paper, but that’s mostly despite not because of him).

    Everything has to appear to be in order for students returning or starting in September, but staff morale is appalling and the stress levels are sky-high.

    I know my attitude has slipped – I have poor ‘control of what comes out of my mouth’ – after reading here for a few months, I read and did some self-assessment tests and am pretty sure I have all the signs of adult ADD, but in the UK the system doesn’t really think it exists in places. I feel disenfranchised, I’m angry and put upon, and I find it harder than normal to ignore/work around not having either the resources or the clarity of aims to use my time effectively. I’m also very, very stressed, gaining weight, not sleeping, all the usual stuff, oh, and perimenopause is kicking in just for fun! I know I must be a pain to manage, and I know I can only control my own responses.

    What I’m doing: I’ve begun counselling through the EAP. I’ve rejoined a gym. I’m trying to get control of my diet, better sleep hygeine. I’m taking all the leave I can fit in before mid-September when the students return, and working from home when I can to stay away from the rumor mill and from my colleagues (who are great, most of them, but also really stressed, and it’s easy to get pulled into the mire of trying to problem-solve things we don’t have the authority for or anticipate and plan for what might go wrong in September, plus I catch emotion off other people really easily) and minimising my email to once-daily triage. I’m trying to do things that I usually like even though I like nothing at the moment apart from sleeping and eating toast, like playing with my cat, reading fiction whilst sitting out in the yard, crafts, focusing on the longer-term parts of my work where I have more control like writing papers for publication. I’m job-hunting, but it’s very difficult as it would require a physical move and I don’t want to have a longer commute than at present, or go to a much higher cost of living area (fixed national pay scale, so pay would be about the same or less as I’d probably need to take a demotion to move).

    But I still can’t get up in the morning, wake up panicking, feel about 90 years old, constantly unwell and afraid. I can’t go and see occupational health without a manager’s recommendation (which Boss doesn’t want to give), and my GP practice doesn’t believe in time off for mental health issues because “You’ll just brood, much better to keep busy.”

    Advice about what I can do to fix my own attitude? Sympathy? Bracing words?

    1. GOG11*

      I can definitely sympathize. I have ADHD and was diagnosed as a young adult. Before medication and learning better coping techniques (and even sometimes now), I was a big blurter, so I can understand the difficulty keeping things to yourself at times. The steps you’re taking to take care of your health are great, and I find exercise to be really helpful and I’ve been told it is because it releases chemicals that can act as a stimulant which helps control symptoms. This is a tough situation, and I wish I could offer some good advice. ADD/ADHD are real and can be very challenging at times.

  102. Cactus*

    I work in IT and it’s just myself and my coworker in our department plus a supervisor. Coworker “Ben” is VERY high energy – he literally runs down the hallway to his desk every morning. I manage interns which used to be Ben’s job but he moved into a different position with different responsibilities two months ago so interns are my responsibility. Yesterday I sent an intern to replace a computer (simple desktop removal and replacement) and Ben scolded me for not doing it myself. He said, “Are you scared of leaving your desk?” When I explained that I was swamped with work and that I trusted the intern to replace hardware more than finish what I was working on he replied, “Well I want you to know that boss notices when you don’t leave your desk and he doesn’t like it.” It really pissed me off because he is so bossy and is NOT my boss. If I’m not constantly running around like he is he doesn’t think I’m working.

    Should I bring this up to boss or let it to? He makes the environment very stressful with his comments and his rushing around that my shoulders become very tense when he’s in the room.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I wouldn’t say anything else to him but talk to your boss directly and explain the situation and ask if your boss would prefer for you to have stayed at your desk and sent the intern or had the intern finish your work. If your boss says “Of course you stay at your desk,” then just rest easy knowing Ben is full of it.

    2. BuildMeUp*

      Is there any actual indication that your boss agrees with Ben? I think it’s very possible that when Ben says, “Boss thinks X,” he really means, “*I* think X, but I think you’ll ignore me unless it’s coming from Boss.” If there’s nothing else to indicate that Boss agrees, I’m not sure it’s necessary to talk to your boss about it.

      I also think you don’t need to explain yourself to Ben. The next time he says, “Are you scared of leaving your desk?” just say, “Nope!” and leave it at that. Ben wants to talk about his Opinions of your work. Don’t engage; don’t give him an opening; don’t argue or explain. He’ll just take that as an invitation to tell you all about how his way is better.

      1. Wheezy Weasel*

        Agreed. I’d reply ‘the boss can discuss that with me if it’s a problem, but it’s not your concern to manage.’ Or if you’re feeling charitable, ‘thanks for the feedback, but I’ll let he/she address that with me.’

  103. Random Lurker*

    Anyone work with Mean Girls? I have a pair I’m dealing with (they are actually customers, but my job requires a lot of interaction on a daily basis). Nothing they do is so egregious that it is worth complaining about, but I’d be lying if I pretended it wasn’t getting to me. There are occasional jabs where I’ll point out that it was a little mean, but most of their stuff is really focused on making sure I am aware that I’m not part of their cliche. I really wish this didn’t bother me :(

    Looking for some friendly voices out here that didn’t particularly enjoy high school the first time.

    1. Crylo Ren*

      Yes. My entire department is basically one giant group of Mean Girls that all came from the same previous company, so they’re personal friends outside of being work friends. Every week they make sure to clutter our [Dept. Girls] Slack channel with references to the AWESOME brunch they did on Saturday and the AMAZEBALLS backyard picnic on Sunday (neither of which I was invited to, but they know I’m a member of the Slack channel). Right now they’re all doing a group cleanse/30 day detox thing and the ringleader went around inviting everyone, but very pointedly skipped me.

      It’s fine that they don’t invite me to the events because I’d likely say no anyway (and I hate the concept of “cleanses”, so no go on that either), but I do wish they’d be a little more tactful about excluding me. :/

      1. Menacia*

        Eh, if you don’t want to be invited or included just let it pass…while I don’t work with “mean” girls so to speak, I do work with cliquey women who gossip and copy each other (they are all doing a cleanse too!). Seems way too peer pressure-like for my taste, there is one ringleader and everyone goes along with her regardless if they want to or not. I kind of like being the odd woman out so that no one puts what I’m eating/wearing/saying/feeling under a microscope because their topics of discussion are so limited.

        1. Crylo Ren*

          Yeah, I’m not that mad about it :) It’s easier to deal with now, but when I first joined the team 4+ months ago I got really upset about seeming excluded. Now, I’m similar to you in that I’m seeing the value in being the aloof one – I fly so much under their radar, I’m not at all worried about them gossiping about me!

  104. Sally Sparrow*

    I have a CW who is otherwise fairly nice, but we have different political/philosophical views on life. I never bring these topics, it’s always her. Most recently I was talking about a certification course my husband is taking that involves folk music (teacher). She tells her own story and says “the blacks think they had it so bad, but in New Orleans they weren’t allowed to work on projects because they were too dangerous so the Irish had to do it.”

    I don’t know how to handle this. I am junior and this is my first job post-college and I don’t want to get in trouble. I know she knows this view is unpopular because she lowers her voice to barely a whisper.

    This is not the first time such a comment has been made and mostly I just freeze and try to get out of the conversation as quick as possible.

    There has been another incident where CW (so I was told) completely overreacted, making it out like I took issue/was upset with something when I wasn’t. So I am slightly worried about souring the relationship.

    Advice? Thoughts? Commismeration?

    1. Dawn*

      “Yo, that’s racist. I hope you’re not saying that because you think I’m going to agree with you. ” repeated over and over. It doesn’t matter that you’re junior- what matters is your co-worker is being racist and KNOWS that she’s being racist because she lowers her voice so other people can’t hear.

      Screw “souring the relationship”- you don’t want to hang out with a racist.

    2. mags*

      Her view is not “unpopular” it’s racist.

      It’s important to let her know you will not tolerate that kind of speak. The recommend suggestion suggestion around these parts “I hope you’re not saying that because you think I agree” is a good start if you’re unsure what to say. Or “I don’t appreciate those types of comments” and change the subject back to work.
      Since this is not the first time this has happened it’s likely it is going to continue if you don’t put a stop to it. Talk to your manger about what is going on as well. Matter-of-factly stating CW has said these things to you and they make you uncomfortable is not going to get you in trouble.

      1. Sally Sparrow*

        I wish I was in a place where it would be acceptable to be very blunt. But I really don’t want to cause trouble, which she has already done in a non-racially charged situation. (My supervisor wanted to make sure I should be doing X with her even though VP had told us – CW and I – that I would still be doing X. When CW found out, through casual conversation, she went to VP and said I was complaining about too much work and I didn’t want to do X. So then the VP went to my supervisor and asked what was going on, and my supervisor had to explain that Sally Sparrow has no problem. I was just wanting to make sure that was in her job description.)

        I think the “I don’t appreciate comments like that” will be the best course of action. I’ve tried my best to distance myself from her, but I’m still having issues despite pulling back.

        1. zora.dee*

          I think the racist comments are different than your example, though. If you say something “Blunt” and she doesn’t like it, what is she going to say to the VP? “I said something non-work-related to Sally Sparrow and she told me she didn’t want to hear those type of comments anymore.” And then the VP comes to you/your boss, and you respond with “She was saying racist things about black people and I asked her to stop.” Who is going to get in trouble in this scenario?

          I think you need to decouple the work issues with her racist comments. You can go along with work things even though she is annoying, but when she says something bigoted treat that differently and with a very even, unemotional tone say “I don’t want to hear racist comments. Please don’t say that to me again.”

          1. Ultraviolet*

            I agree, and I’d add that it’s not just based on the hope that the VP doesn’t like racism, but the fact that they probably know that that kind of thing needs to be shut down at work, even if only for liability reasons. (Yes, there are VPs who don’t know that or don’t care, but I think it’s more likely than not that they know blatant racism should be discouraged.)

            1. zora.dee*

              Yeah exactly, I’m not assuming that the VP is an anti-racist crusader, but in the vast majority of workplaces, she’s not going to say “Well, you need to let Jane say racist things if she wants to.” Because: crazytown.

              It is perfectly reasonable in most offices to firmly but calmly say “don’t say racist things to me.” That in and of itself is not unprofessional or mean.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Not only is it racist; it’s also inaccurate. Google irish slaves myth for more details.

    4. Student*

      Say, “My dear Aunt Clarice is [insulted minority group].” Wide eyes, aghast tone. This will keep most people from spewing further hateful vitriol at you as if you approve of it.

      It also lets you out softly without having to say, “That’s a terrible thing to say, don’t say that to me.” because you clearly aren’t willing to just do that. That’s a legit thing to do, by the way, and those of us she hates would silently appreciate you for standing up to her.

    5. Annie Moose*

      That sucks and is indeed racist. (Irish indentured servants did indeed have a pretty horrific time–but statements of that sort tend to be a lead up to “so black people should stop complaining because their ancestors had a fantabulous time” and other, worse statements.)

      I have no advice, other than that trying to convince her she’s wrong through historical debate is not likely to be useful; tell her you don’t want to hear it or whatever, but don’t engage in a big discussion about it. It’s just plain not going to end well. If she was a close friend or family member who you thought would listen to you? Maybe. But an older coworker who you aren’t close to? Disengage, disengage, disengage.

  105. Anonymous Educator*

    I finally got switched from non-exempt to exempt, which I’m thrilled about. I know some people would consider that a downgrade, particularly if they wanted the ability to earn overtime pay, but I really prefer the freedom to stay late and work extra hours as needed and leave when it makes sense to leave. Plus I got a raise (not just a “cost-of-living” increase)!

    1. BRR*

      I love being exempt vs. non-exempt. I really like not having to keep hard track of my hours (although we recently adopted a system for inputing hours worked due to grant funding but my position isn’t grant funded so I can basically just put in whatever).

  106. petpet*

    I had a very promising phone interview last week for a job I was really excited about. I was just informed they’re going with an internal candidate.

    I feel so deflated.

  107. Indecision*

    Hi friends!

    I had a job interview last week and was told that I would hear back by Monday. It is now Friday, and I haven’t heard anything. I’ve had one call from an unknown number, but no message. Should I follow up with the person who scheduled my interview by email? I realize that if they wanted to find a way to get in touch with me they probably would, but part of me is worried that something went horribly wrong and they tried to contact me but there was an issue or something. Unfortunately, I don’t have the contact info for the person who I interviewed with (the interview was very informal and there didn’t seem to be a good time to ask for a business card or anything, which I now realize I should have done, I think I was just a little flustered by how casual it was), but I can reach out to someone. I don’t want to be a bother, but I’m a little worried because it has been quite a while since I was told I would hear back.

    1. AC*

      Yes, I’d follow up via email. A similar situation happened to me, and it turned out there was a death in my would-be-manager’s family that caused the delay. You never know!

  108. Eddit Turr*

    So, we have a female office manager who (in addition to lots of behind-the-scenes stuff like coordinating travel) sits at our front desk. When she’s gone or takes a lunch or something, we fill in with interns (if we have them) and one of our project managers, who is both a former intern and the youngest woman in the office.

    Well, that PM has resigned and our HR lady (who also sometimes covers the desk) has asked me to be a backup for manning the desk. I think the main reasons she asked me are because 1) She and I are pretty friendly, and 2) I am rarely in a meeting so my schedule is, in some ways, more flexible. But I’m also a woman under 30, and I’m not crazy about the optics of me covering the front desk when my job is to edit copy and proofread our final products. I’m not entry level, but it’s one of those jobs that sorta could be entry level; I’m the only person in the office who does my job.

    I would really like to avoid this duty and/or suggest she ask at least one male employee to back up the desk. But I also want to help, and I have to admit that I’m a not-entirely-unreasonable choice for this duty. Am I being too sensitive about the gender implications?

    1. NarrowDoorways*

      Could you say something like, “Wow, yeah, I’d love to help out, but my work keeps me pretty busy. Have you checked with Jeff/Bob/Brian?”

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I’m at a point in my life where I’m just going to call out these kinds of issues (e.g., when at a team meeting the big boss was taking volunteers to organizing the annual staff party, I said that I wouldn’t raise my hand until at least one man on the team did so).

      So, I’d say something like: “I’m happy to help out sometimes, but this is the kind of task that often gets assigned to women, and that’s just not fair. I’d be willing to be in a rotation with one of my male colleagues.”

      1. UnCivilServant*

        when at a team meeting the big boss was taking volunteers to organizing the annual staff party

        I have no idea who organizes the formal off-site “events” at my workplace. It’s a bureaucratic process (and you have to pay to attend, so I never do). All other events we’ve discovered are driven by the same women who organize them. They were the only ones who cared if these happened at all. After they retired/transferred/otherwise left, no one bothered to find someone else to organize these events and no one noticed the absense.

        I know that’s not relevent to a formal mandate from on high, but I’ve always thought it was an interesting peek into personalities.

    3. Student*

      Just say no.

      It sounds like HR is not your boss. She’s just fishing for people who will agree to do this so that she doesn’t have to spend as much time on it herself.

      This task benefits you in no way whatsoever. As you say, it likely undermines your social status with co-workers and disrupts your real work. You won’t get brownie points with your direct boss or people who’s work you depend on for doing this – you’ll actually be doing less work for those people. You might get brownie points with HR – which is not beneficial to you as a copy editor. She has no way to reciprocate. You probably won’t even get brownie points with the office manager, since you will be filling in for her instead of working with her.

        1. Mockingjay*

          Don’t be graceful; be firm. Simply say no, I have a full workload. You are allowed to say No.

          You may not be in a lot of meetings, but you do have a full schedule. Good editing and proofing requires large chunks of uninterrupted time. Filling in at the front desk means constant disruptions. What will happen if you miss errors in the final copy because you were rushed or got interrupted?

  109. AC*

    I was offered and accepted a job, but because the hiring process has already taken over 2 months, the position is no longer available. What can I do?

    The story:

    I’ve been struggling to find a full time job since being laid off over 2 years ago. But then back in May, my luck changed and I accepted a job that involves working in the justice system, but in an administrative support role. However, because of the organization I’d be working with, they have to conduct very thorough and very lengthy background checks. Fine, I knew this when I applied to the job.

    What I didn’t know, however, was that the position I accepted is classified at temporary. It was available because the previous person in the role was placed on long term medical leave. They didn’t expect this person to be returning to the role. But now it looks like she will be.

    I’m still in the second stage of background checks, and was told that it could still be a few weeks. Meaning by the time my hiring process is done, the position I was hired for will very likely no longer be available (as the former employee will no longer be on leave from the position).

    I’m devastated, and so frustrated by this! And I’m at a complete loss as to what I can do.

    My would-be supervisor casually mentioned another position that is opening in the department, and gave me the impression that I was being considered for it. But today I see that the job has been posted and is opened to external candidates. Meaning I have to apply for it, just like everyone else, and compete against all the other candidates. Basically, I’m back to being “unemployed” and job hunting again.

    What are my options here? What are my rights? (If I even have any.)

    Any advice would be immensely appreciated!

    1. Pwyll*

      I would immediately continue your job search. The upside is that you’ll be through the background check process soon, which will give you a huge advantage over anyone new who applies to these positions who would be subject to the same long wait. Frankly, they could be posting the job in case you leave in-betweeen, because that background check seems extremely long to me, and it wouldn’t surprise me if people take other jobs in-between. You could also more directly ask your would-be supervisor: “It appears the person I was replacing has returned to the job. Does the offer I accepted still stand, or will I be required to apply to your other open positions?”

      But I wouldn’t rely on that. They’ve signaled to you that you may or may not have a position, so keep searching until you get a hard offer with a definite start date from another place, or they call to give you a start date at the government agency.

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      Apply for the other position! Your back ground check is half done, you’ve got an edge, use it! Plus they already like you and basically told you to go for it. Don’t let a little bureaucracy stand in your way.

      1. Bex*

        Agree with all this! Also, they likely have a requirement that most (or all) jobs must be posted externally for a certain number of days, so I wouldn’t let the job posting discourage you.

    3. Aisling*

      If this is a federal job, they are required to post in certain ways. It’s not personal, believe me. You need to apply because they need to have your application information in a certain way. It’s red tape, but it’s the reality of working for the federal system.

    4. catsAreCool*

      “My would-be supervisor casually mentioned another position that is opening in the department, and gave me the impression that I was being considered for it.” That’s a good sign, but there’s no guarentees. I’d suggest applying for this and also applying for other jobs.

  110. Nervous Accountant*

    So something really interesting happened this week.

    I had interviewed with this company 2 years ago. The owner made me an offer, but wouldn’t give me a start date and then said they didn’t need me anymore, so I never worked for them. She contacted me again about 6 months later, when I was at my current company, and then again this week.

    I was really mystified as to why she wanted to speak to me, I really highly doubted she wanted to hire me since, ya know, offer rescinded, and I have no intention of leaving….but….curiosity got the better of me. So I just had a short call with her, and she wanted to know if I can help her streamline some processes in her office or something? She wanted to do it on a contractor basis, and could be outside of work hours. I’m super skeptical because, ya kno, the whole hiring and then not hiring thing, she has a large network, but is asking for help from someone who she never worked with.

    I really should have ignored it but the prospect of earning extra money is looking attractive to me. :(

    1. Menacia*

      Hrm, could be that they could not hire a FTE for the job, but still need someone and you were the strongest candidate? If you decide to do it, just get everything in writing up front. May open some new opportunities or it could be a dud, hard to say.

    2. Bruce H.*

      I would consider it, if I had the time and energy to work on it evenings and weekends, but I’d only do it on a time and materials basis, I’d charge a high hourly rate, and I’d make them pay in advance, not for the whole job, but at least forty hours paid up front.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I would set the deal up so that the transaction is transparent. This to me would mean, I’d ask for an hourly rate, payable weekly or biweekly. Then I would see how it goes. IF the paychecks keep rolling to me, I’d probably keep showing up. Set it up to protect your interests and don’t let it be all about what works well for her.

  111. Total Rando*

    I need advice to try to counteract the loyalty I feel towards my current job/coworkers.

    Background: I love the work that I do. I love the people that I work with. I hate my commute and I know that it’s probably not sustainable for more than another year or so. I’ve been here three years. I was originally planning to start job searching next summer.

    Situation: My grand-boss just informed us that he’s resigning which will drastically change the dynamics of our department as well as our standing within our organization. Couple that with upcoming leave on my part, and our very small department is going to be pretty unstable for the next 4-5 months.
    The news of my grand-boss’s departure has prompted me to start looking for jobs closer to my home. I haven’t actually applied to any yet or even reached out to my contacts about them, but I am scared about what our department will look like without him when I return from my leave.

    Question: How much should I delay/move up my timeline for transitioning jobs based on the impact to my coworkers, whom I respect and frankly love working with? I’m potentially thinking about finding a job that would start in early 2017.

    1. shep*

      Honestly, I would start searching now. The market is still really fickle (YMMV depending on your field, of course) and while it doesn’t seem like you have a strict deadline for a new job, I can imagine since your commute is wearing on you, if it’s taking longer than anticipated to find a new position, that commute will only wear harder.

      I struggled for about a year and a half to find a position in which I wasn’t underemployed after graduate school. That was, of course, a little more pressing than I gather your situation is, but it’s taught me that if I want to look elsewhere later, I should start NOW.

      (It’s Friday and I’m clearly rambling!! Hopefully some of that was coherent. :) )

      1. Total Rando*

        So I may be naive about this, but I get the sense that once I’m ready to leave, I will be able to find a position fairly easily and fairly quickly – given my field and certifications. I’m afraid of pulling the trigger and sending in applications before I’m ready to leave in case I do get a job offer quickly.

        I just don’t know if that changes things.

    2. Biff*

      I’d dig in now. I’ve been doing a casual job search for about two years, and though I have gotten interviews, I haven’t gotten nibbles from anyone I’d remotely consider working for. At least in my line of business, employers are still using market instability to justify poor pay/benefits.

      1. Audiophile*

        This.

        I’ve been asked several times if I would lower or have any flexibility on my salary. And it’s not a high salary expectation. It wouldn’t even allow me to live on my own in the NY suburb I live in.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I’d use whatever time frame worked well for me. As far as your coworkers, I understand you think highly of them, but you have to live your life as you see best. And they will, too. Set your time frame according to your needs/goals.

  112. Cathy*

    I know many of you (like me) don’t like the interruption and immediacy of phone calls. However, my office takes it a bit further by having a “Buzz” function where you can essentially dial a person’s extension and start talking on their speakerphone. There’s no accept feature. Just dial, BEEP, start talking. Does anyone else’s office have this?

    3. Pwyll*

      I interviewed at a place like this once. But they had fairly strong rules about how it was to be used (emergencies, general announcements from the executive team, or to locate someone across their 6 floors when they were absolutely needed).

      But 1-to-1? Nope. I’m pretty sure I would google the instruction manual for my phone, turn it off, and play dumb if anyone asked.

      1. Cathy*

        Ours is used for everything. BUZZ “Hey, what’s the status on this?” BUZZ “Do you know where your boss is?” BUZZ “I need you to do last minute project.”

        3. Bex*

          Oh that sounds TERRIBLE!! We use Skype for Business which has similar results (quick answers) without making people want to smash things

    4. MsMaryMary*

      Yes, we do and I hate it. Most people don’t use it, but sometimes the front desk will if they have an urgent call or a guest. A few AEs use it because they’re jerks and obviously you should drop everything to talk to them.

      The first few weeks I worked here I was doing it accidentally to people. No one had told me that dialing 1 + extension made the phone ring normally, but just dialling their extension was buzz and speakphone. Luckily someone pulled me aside and told me I was doing it wrong.

      We get a new phone systen next month, and I am very hopeful it won’t have this function.

    5. Pearl*

      We do. None of us use it except one of my co-workers. She also can’t seem to manage to write down anyone’s extensions. So she just guesses, calls a random number, and starts talking. Frequently she picks a phone no one is immediately next to. The speaker is not good enough for her to hear you if you shout from across the room. Everyone now ignores her when she does this and waits for her to cycle through to a phone with a person at it, because we got tired of racing across the room to answer only for her to hang up.

      I’ve suggested multiple times that she keep a list of everyone’s extensions next to her desk, but she doesn’t want to, so I gave up.

      1. Menacia*

        Ha, the EA of the CEO has *one* number she needs to know to contact IT, does she use it? Nope. She will call everyone separately until she gets a warm body and then dive right into the issue. I’ve let her know on numerous occasions if she just called our one main number, someone will pick up and immediately help her. She just insists on calling each of us directly, and if I’m number four on the list, her frustration level is at an all time high, so I get the brunt of it.

    6. Annie Moose*

      Oh nooooo, that sounds awful. I try to avoid phonecalls as much as possible (I just am not comfortable on the phone, I strongly prefer either in-person (where you can see the other person’s body language) or text communication (where you can carefully think through what you’re saying and word it appropriately)), and I just would die if that was a common thing in my office.

      I’m getting more comfortable with the phone out of necessity, but I still strongly prefer planned-in-advance calls to random unexpected ones. (which almost make me worried something is horribly wrong)

    7. Kristinemc*

      Our phone system defaults to this. However, you can change the setting so that it rings, instead, and you have to pick up. Maybe see if you can change it to that?

      1. Mirilla*

        Ours does too. Now that I think if it, it’s sort of like eavesdropping because when you receive an interoffice call they can hear you if you are talking to a coworker. You usually don’t even know there’s someone calling you until you hear the person calling your name over speaker on your phone.
        I need to change the setting.

    9. KW10*

      We have this at my office and it’s never been a problem – I’m surprised people here feel so strongly against it! We use it all the time, usually not for extensive conversations but for quick questions.

      1. Mreasy*

        OldJob had this & I much prefer it to current “system” for quick questions of shouting across the office or sneaking up on me!

    10. Nicole*

      My office has this too. I was really thrown by it at first since it wasn’t something I had experienced before. I overhear a lot of conversations or just people saying, “Fergus? Fergus?” before hanging up because Fergus isn’t at his desk. I find it pretty intrusive and didn’t know you could change it. Not that I will – that’s just how it’s done at this place… but I always pick up the handset as soon as I realize someone is there because I don’t feel comfortable broadcasting my conversations. Most people in my office just leave it on speaker, though.

    11. Observer*

      Our old system had a “barge in” feature. It’s meant for emergencies, but it’s WAY too easy to misuse.

  113. Tara R.*

    I worked an extra day on Monday and asked the woman who does the scheduling which day I should take in exchange.

    “Oh, don’t worry about it, you’re finishing earlier than the other interns so it’ll be good for you to have some extra hours. We’ll just pay you for all 11 days.”

    “Oh, but that’ll put me into overtime.”

    “No, it’s okay, we don’t do that here.”

    ???????

    1. Dawn*

      If the hours that you actually worked would put you into overtime as defined by your state’s Department of Labor, then they have to pay you overtime for those hours, even if they “don’t do that here.”

      Go back to the scheduling person and ask for clarification- “I worked [amount of hours] in [time period]. The DOL says that means I should get overtime for [amount of hours], and I don’t want us to run afoul of the law, so I’d rather take a comp day than have the company be in an illegal situation.” And go from there.

      1. Tara R.*

        I’m in Canada, but it’s definitely, definitely against the rules. I’m just surprised someone who’s spent her whole life as a working professional doesn’t realize overtime pay isn’t some kind of opt-in system!

        1. Aisling*

          She might know that, but is still not doing it, even if it’s breaking a law. So many employers think the risk of discovery is relatively low for the benefits to them.

  114. Pwyll*

    I received a job offer that literally says my work schedule would be 9-7, Sunday through Friday, “with the expectation that you will be available as needed on Saturdays.” They also have a “generous leave and benefits package” of non-employer paid healthcare and “beyond industry-standard vacation of 15 days per year, which accrues at a rate of 1 day per month after your first full year of service.” And an opportunity to participate in an “equity event” at some point in the future.

    I mean, it’s a dream come true, right? /s

    2. Rebecca*

      OK, I’m not a math whiz but it seems like they want you to work 10 hour days, 6 days per week, and also be available on Saturday, for 7 days a week. Vacation that accrues at 1 day per month (after one year of working 6-7 day weeks!!) would equate to 12 days per year, not 15+.

      Um…no thanks.

      1. Pwyll*

        Yes, I noticed that. I charitably chalked that up to the idea that you get 3 days at the start of the year, and accrue after that.

        But I doubt it.

    6. Biff*

      I think they mean COMPANY vacation, not PTO vacation is 15 days a year. Most companies only have 8-11 paid holidays.

      Regardless, that isn’t competitive and they are deluding themselves.

      1. Pwyll*

        Oh no. They definitely mean PTO. They get Federal holidays off too, I clarified.

        But it’s okay. They’re the next Google. /s

    8. Not So NewReader*

      This sounds like a grocery store. Yeah, they honestly believe that they are handing you the world on a silver platter.
      Their main point is that if you were full time especially, they did not want you have a second job.

  115. TheLazyB*

    I’ve applied for an internal job at work. If I get an interview, it’ll be in the office that most my team works at (I don’t work there), in a meeting room right next to my team’s desks. I couldn’t get in without my team seeing me. And I’m on leave that week, so if they saw me they’d notice and then they’d be able to watch me have my interview through the glass meeting room walls.

    I’d obviously tell my line manager if I got an interview but I wouldn’t want to tell my whole team – let alone have them able to watch me. So far my only ideas are either a) fake moustache or b) my work friend would create a diversion, possibly with cake.

    Help??

    1. Dawn*

      If you get an interview, explain to them the situation and ask if you can please have the interview somewhere else in the building. Any reasonable person would be happy to have you interview on another floor.

      1. TheLazyB*

        I’m hoping so. There’s just great pressure on rooms in that building. Hey ho, I’ll not worry too much till I find out if I got an interview :) thanks!

  116. Jennifer*

    So my transfer…. who the hell knows?

    The problem is that I am the only one left working on say, teapot spouts. My remaining coworker who also does teapot spouts is out for having surgery. And her return date keeps getting moved back farther and farther. Like now “oh, btw, her husband just had open heart surgery, she’s not coming back until September.” And I’ve already been warned that she probably needs to have another surgery for another health issue in the fall, so I’m just waiting for that anvil to drop on me too. I asked Supervisor A what happens if my coworker doesn’t come back at all in the fall and she said well, we’d probably have to hold on to you for longer, since I am the only one here to do spouts and she thinks it’s too hard to train the temps on. (Heck, it took her over a year to train me on some aspects of spouts because “it’s too hard.”)

    I told Supervisor B who I’m supposed to be transferring to this and he was basically all “oh hell no, that won’t work.” I said I could very easily see the transfer being postponed more because of this if nobody else but me can do it, so SOMEONE is going to have to be trained to do it in order for me to be able to fully leave. He said he’d talk to Supervisor A about it. I know darned well they don’t really have any plan to handle that, so…

    Yeah, I’m not counting on this happening until 2017. If then.

    (For anyone who’s also a hippie: I did some tarot card readings asking how this was going to go and got stuff like the 8 of Cups and Death…so that’s not super great signs.)

    1. Manders*

      I’m an totally amateur tarot card reader, but don’t both of those cards have a connotation of making a transition or moving on from something? Maybe it’s time to give some thought to whether you’re ready to move on from this job/this company.

      1. Jennifer*

        I’ve given up on leaving the company. There is just nothing out there for me. Other industries have even worse pay for clerical workers and I don’t qualify for anything. I’ve been looking for years and it’s just not happening. Clearly God wants me HERE because otherwise the place would fall apart.
        I am wondering if my coworker is going to move on/quit/die after seeing those things, though…

        Theoretically I should be getting out of the aspects of the job I don’t like, so I suppose those could mean that. I…just don’t think so.

        Oh yeah, and then I got asked if I can move offices AGAIN next week. I can’t tell you no, now can I?

  117. Rebecca*

    Friday vent: I am sick to death of my manager stomping into my office and wanting “just 5 minutes of your time” to go fix yet another computer issue she’s created for herself, or to enter a spreadsheet function that she could easily google and type in herself. Many of these situations have occurred over and over and over and over again! It’s so frustrating. If I asked her repeatedly how to solve a work problem, she’d ask me why I hadn’t made written notes, and make not so veiled threats to fire me. This happened yet again today, and when I pointed out that the data set she’s working with isn’t accurate, she just frowned at me and said “well, all of this needs to be updated”. I agreed, but asked her to please look at the data again, and gave her concrete examples of items that were clearly wrong.

    My words fell on deaf ears, as I heard her call several people into her office a few minutes later to tell them to start updating. So glad it’s Friday, and this falls under the “not my problem” category.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Wish I could give you some practical advice, but… just… so sorry you have to deal with that!

      1. Rebecca*

        Yes, that’s why it’s a vent. This is just one of many things that make me want to go screaming into the night, along with the whistling, yelling from her office to people 2 or 3 offices away, going from room to room demanding “in my office, now” to all of us to make us stand there for 20 or 30 minutes because 1 person made 1 mistake…I could go on and on but it’s pointless. She will not change, so I am hoping to change jobs to get away from the insanity.

        1. Artemesia*

          It would take one ‘In MY OFFICE NOW!’ to have me looking for a new job. This is kindergarten stuff.

  118. Pegacorni*

    My office manager just sent me an email that I left early and that I needed to tell him and put it on the sign-in board. I didn’t leave early – I came in a touch earlier, worked a full 8 hours, and didn’t take a lunch. He literally said “I get that but you need to put it on the board.” —HUH?? What am I missing here? Many folks work part-time and leave whenever. Most people are here by 9, as am I. I’m usually one of the first people to get here and almost always, the last person to leave. We have one person who comes in at 7 and leaves mid-afternoon. I’m salaried, but still have to work 40 hours a week, 8 hours a day (or so it’s been implied). Protocol was never made clear about the board and this is a new manager. I don’t want to think he has a vendetta against me, but he’s basically claiming time fraud. How should I respond?

    1. Pwyll*

      Have a meeting with the Office Manager and say something like “I just wanted to more clearly understand what you’re asking me to do. Are you asking me to mark the board any time I come in early or stay late?”

    2. Total Rando*

      My guess is that it’s more about communication of when people are available vs. time punching.

      My team is very relaxed about exact timing of our 40 hours, but we do have to keep each other informed about our schedules if we change from our normal routines (i.e. will be in late or leaving early). It’s more about the communication of “If you need me, I’m only here til 3 today” and less about the “I came in at 7 and skipped lunch so that I could leave at 3 and still work 8 hours”

      You probably need to ask your boss for clarification on what communication he needs.

      1. Pegacorni*

        Both excellent replies – thank you!

        I guess my issue too is that I don’t see this as leaving early, so why tell folks in the office? Our office is incredibly small too – only 10 people and there were 3 people there when I left – at 4:15. These folks don’t say bye to me when they leave though. Also the office manager is leaving on a three week vacation and I won’t be able to address this in person.

        1. catsAreCool*

          It could be that he wants to know who’s here and who isn’t, especially since he’s new. Try not to take it personally – he might not mean it that way at all, and the more you can sound interested in following the rules the way he wants you to, the better of response you’re likely to get from him.

        2. Bex*

          I think that working a full day and leaving early aren’t mutually exclusive. So in this case, you DID leave early (before 5pm) but you still worked your hours. My guess is that your boss wanted to cover a few things with you before his vacation and realized you’d already left. So it might be more that he wants to know when you came in early and are therefore leaving early so that he can manage his time/communications appropriately

  119. Sawcebox*

    I have a face-to-face interview on Monday at the massive multinational my husband works at. If I got the job, I would not be working with him at all; we’d be in completely different departments that do not typically interact, and in the same building but on different floors. I applied and got the interview under my own steam, so no one at his job knows that we are a couple. We have different surnames, too.

    Husband says there are other couples who work there and the company has no problem with this.

    My question is, should I disclose that my husband already works for the company in the interview? If so, when? My feeling is that it would be kind of weird not to, but I’d like other people’s thoughts!

    Other relevant information:
    – I have already had a brief impromptu phone screening where they asked a few interview-style questions, but I did not mention my husband
    – it’s a very big company and the biggest employer by far in our city

    Thanks for any insight!

    1. oh.canada*

      If they don’t ask, maybe it does not matter? I applied for a job at a large municipality where my husband works, and there was a place on the HR screening form where I was required to disclose any relationships with staff. Maybe you could find a way to bring it up casually in the interview? Like, “my husband actually current works with this organization and is really happy in his role, so I know you will be a good employer?”

      1. Megs*

        I would not assume that not asking means not mattering. Any company other than a family-business will want to avoid having spouses supervise each other. For most companies, though, it probably doesn’t come up enough to be worth cluttering a job ad/application with.

    2. Megs*

      Assuming that you wouldn’t be working together or ESPECIALLY potentially managing each other, and this is a massive company, I think it’s fine to wait to the offer stage and don’t see it being an issue. I’d be curious to see what other people think, though.

      1. Sawcebox*

        No, no chance that we’d be managing each other or potentially managing each other! Thanks for the advice. I am getting the feeling that it might be okay to go either way with this, which makes it easier!

  120. Alton*

    How do people disconnect from work when they’re out on vacation or are taking a sick day?

    I’m kind of conflicted–on the one hand, I wouldn’t classify myself as a workaholic. Work/life balance is very important to me. But in practice, I have a problem of wanting to be available to help people all the time, and feeling responsible if I’m not. I’m an administrative employee, so it’s not like I’m a doctor or something where I legitimately need to be available at a moment’s notice. But on the other hand, a lot of people are used to me being the main point person for various things, and I don’t want people to worry if they can’t reach me (even if I do everything I can to let people know that I’ll be out ahead of time). I’m non-exempt, so I’m not supposed to work off the clock (and at my organization, that includes stuff like vacation time and sick leave). But I get so anxious about missing something important that it’s hard for me to appreciate having time off.

    I’m reachable if there’s a true emergency, but otherwise, I don’t know how to disengage without worrying.

    1. Megs*

      If you are non-exempt, do not work off the clock! Think about it this way: your employer could get in a ton of trouble if they find out you’re doing that. It’s not likely anyone would find out, but that should be worrying enough on its own, right?

      Do you think you could talk to your boss(es) about this? It’s possible they’d be fine with you checking your email periodically (if and only if you logged that time), or they might just make it clear that you’re not expected to be reachable outside of work unless it’s an emergency.

      1. Alton*

        Yeah, I’m really conscious about not working off the clock.

        I’m hoping it will be a little simpler when we bring in additional admin help. But yeah, it’s probably something I could bring up if necessary.

    2. anon again*

      One good way to disengage when you’re off the clock is to ensure that you’ve done what you can prior to being out. I often remind coworkers a week or so ahead of being out that if they need anything before I’m out to let me know by a certain date. If possible, have someone that can cover in your absence and ensure they have whatever information they need to do so. And the be sure your phone greeting and email direct everyone to that person while you’re out. Being an effective employee isn’t always about doing it all yourself, it’s being sure there is backup to cover.

      1. Alton*

        I do try to do all this (including reminding people ahead of time). I think the main problem is that at the moment, I’m the *only* admin person, and it’s impossible to totally eliminate last minute e-mails and questions. In theory, everyone should be able to figure out the answers for themselves with five minutes of research, but it’s hard to shake the fear that they won’t. So I don’t want to work off the clock, but I also feel better sometimes if I can shoot them a quick reply saying that everything’s fine and I have plans to take care of whatever they’re asking about when I get back.

        1. anon again*

          In my experience, people tend to take advantage when you make yourself accessible even when on vacation. They are more apt to appreciate you when you don’t. Since it doesn’t seem that there are any crises that can’t be solved in other ways when you’re out, would it help to remind yourself of that?

          And in the long run it can help the company to not have employees available during vacations. It can highlight areas where backup or cross training is needed. It’s easier to find that out when you’re out for a week or two than when there’s a more serious issue (unexpected medical leave, proverbial hit by the bus, win the lottery and go on an around the world cruise, etc.).

    3. Natalie*

      Have you ever managed to fully disconnect on a vacation? If so, did it help to lessen your anxiety when you returned and things were basically fine?

      Also, are you anxious generally?

      1. Alton*

        I am pretty anxious generally. But I also have a bad habit of feeling responsible for other people’s needs more than I probably should. One thing I’m trying to do is keep in mind how *I* react when I try to reach someone about a request or problem at work and find out that they’re on vacation (that is, it’s usually not an emergency and I’m generally able to reach someone else if it is. So other people can do the same thing when I’m out).

        1. Natalie*

          I’m also an anxious person and I had a similar feeling as you did when I first took time off in a professional job. I got lucky in that there wasn’t any way for me to check in, no remote email access or anything. So when I came back I was relieved to see nothing had exploded horribly while I was out, and that made it easier the next time I needed time off. After a few short vacations with no fallout, it was easier to manage my anxiety by reminding myself that this had happened before, emergencies were handled by Not-Me, and no one batted an eye.

          If you can bring yourself to truly disconnect the next time you’re out, even if it’s only a short time (1-2 days), I think that will help. This is, IMO, an important thing for you to learn to do – it will continue to come up in your working life and you don’t want to end up like a former co-worker of mine who only took 1 PTO day in 13 years with the company.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      When Exjob started to suck, I started thinking of the time clock button as my cue–when it logged me in, I was at work, and people could ask me questions or to help them with something, etc. When it logged me out, that was MY time. I had to delineate it in my head that I didn’t HAVE to think about any work stuff outside work. Until I did that, I was miserable, because it gnawed at me. I had to learn to let it go and not carry my frustration of how it sucked into my precious personal time.

      That habit stuck with me. A vacation day or a sick day is also my time, even though I’m getting paid. It’s a benefit that I earned, the right not to have to think about it for that day. As an admin, there is nothing I’m going to “miss” that can’t wait until the next day. My level of responsibility isn’t that high.

  121. Somewhere_Out_There*

    Any advice for someone who isn’t getting a lot of interviews? This is a family member, so I’m trying to be supportive but don’t really know what to suggest. The job searcher is a recent mechanical engineering grad who did well at one of the top engineering schools but, though she had summer jobs, didn’t have an engineering-related summer job. I’m not in her field so I don’t know how big a downside that is, or how she could get experience at this point. The area where she went to school is not where she’s living now, and that may be part of it too. She has taken her resume and sample cover letter to be reviewed locally. She has put in quite a lot of applications, and done a little networking to find out about specific employers. Any thoughts?

    1. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Does she have a masters yet? In most engineering jobs, this is almost a requirement now.

      And keep up with the networking.

      1. Somewhere_Out_There*

        She doesn’t have a masters – she wonders whether a master’s degree would her on an academic track, which she doesn’t want.

        1. OlympiasEpiriot*

          In my geographic area and in conversations with other engineers at conferences, it seems that for CE and ME a masters is desirable. (Urban, Northeast, consulting). In my company, it seems like nearly a basic requirement; we also have several PhDs. I don’t have one, only the bachelor’s, but I have other experience. For engineers who are going to get licensed, the NCEES (as well as the engineering societies) has been having a lot of internal discussions about making a masters a requirement for licensure. All the MEs I have in my circle have at least masters degrees and very few of them are in academia. Aerospace, acoustic, metallurgy, and even HVAC and communications…masters degrees.

          From the LinkedIn groups, I see that in other areas of the country there’s a lot of people who don’t have them.

          Maybe what she could do is tackle networking and informational interviews. Make a list of every vaguely interesting engineering event in her field in a suitable radius and go, chat, listen, and learn more about the industry meanwhile. Even if things say they have a hefty fee, call the organizer and just politely but straightforwardly ask if she could go for free as she is job hunting or see if she can still get the student rate (there often is one, sometimes not well-announced). People are often volunteers for a Association Section and assume there’ll be some kind of down-the-road quid pro quo. This is also part of networking.

          During these chats, see whose companies look interesting and do research on them. See who they hire. Ask people she meets what they look for.

          There is no problem from my way of thinking of having had jobs that weren’t engineering internships. Needing to make money for school is important. I also like people to have some breadth of experiences.

        2. OlympiasEpiriot*

          Also, she needs to call her alumni/ae association like yesterday. Just because she’s not in the same area as the school doesn’t mean the school and its extended family can’t help. She needs to reach out to her professors for info about anyone they’ve kept in touch with who might be in her area and just alums in all disciplines. A fellow alum who studied Math or Sociology might have a cousin who is an engineer or a neighbor.

    2. oh.canada*

      Disagree about master’s being a requirement, at least not in entry level consulting. Very few consulting firms even post entry level jobs, they are unfortunately often filled by returning summer students, at least in our field. Because she is in a new place, she should be on the look out for industry events. In my business there are often lunch time and evening talks that you can attend and you can try and meet people at those. Maybe she could even volunteer with those committees. She could also look into job fairs that the local college where she is living now.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        We don’t have many masters folks here, either. Tends to be BSME and M.Eng Mgmt, if anything. But, we’re really not that technical, either. We figure out what to buy, and figure out how to connect it.

        If she’s traditional college age, though, I would recommend the masters vs. working a non-engineering job or being unemployed. Technical engineering masters are generally paid for.

    3. Temperance*

      Unfortunately, internships are de rigeur in all jobs now. There’s really no such thing as entry-level.

      1. Somewhere_Out_There*

        Is it likely that she could get an internship or other short term work when she has already graduated? Or would she need to enroll in school again?

    4. AnotherAlison*

      Mechanical engineering is entering a bit of a slowdown right now, at least in my industry (power plant engineering and construction). Oil and gas is the same, so there probably is a glut of new grads right now. Esp. considering that hiring was robust for several years due to O&G, and the number of grads is up.

      If they aren’t living where they went to school, it may not be a good area for MEs. Engineering work is kind of regionalized. There are hubs for big power engineering consultants. Biomedical engineers have a different region where they’re centered, and so on. If they’re in a small town, opportunities would be limited.

      It’s also unclear when they started job hunting. We hire engineers in the late fall and early spring for May graduates. If they missed that hiring bubble, new grad opportunities will be limited.

      As for advice now, I would expand networking. Join the city chapter of SWE and ASME, if she’s not already involved. Look for small companies that aren’t necessarily her first choice (different industry, type of work).

      If she had a summer job that wasn’t engineering-related, she may need to go above and beyond to prove her commitment to the field. Statistically, 40% of women with engineering degrees quit or never enter the profession, so she may be up against perceptions that she has the degree but isn’t that “in to” engineering if she doesn’t show some society involvement or other engineering-related extra curriculars.

      1. Somewhere_Out_There*

        Thanks! The networking thing is certainly something she can do. Those of us who know her know that she’s wanted to be an inventor since she was 9 years old so we know how much she is ‘in to’ it, but it’s helpful to see some ways that she can demonstrate it and communicate that.

        1. OlympiasEpiriot*

          Depending on her concentration in ME, in addition to AnotherAlison’s recs of SWE and ASME, there’s the AEI (Architectural Engineering Institute) that’s under the wing of the ASCE. It is a slightly odd hybrid org as it is cross-disciplinary — every engineering specialty that is in service to a building (as opposed to more general systems, or infrastructure, etc.). I’ve had a little contact with it and, because of the broad range of people in it, I think its events or contacts might be useful. They don’t have a ton of chapters, but the people involved are spread out. I’ve got biz cards from Tulsa to Milwaukee to Virginia to San Francisco and further all from their events.

          If she can’t get a strictly engineering job and has to take another job for a while or part-time during the job search, imo she should do her best to get something that is more mechanical depending on where she is and what is available. Like, if worst comes to worst and it has to be retail, make it a hardware store or a building center. Or an automotive/small engine repair shop if she’s got skills or can talk her way into it. Jobs like this give women a bit of street cred and it would give her access to equipment for tinkering on inventions. I have a pre-engineering manual labor job history and I think it helps a bit. I certainly think it helps with respect to my ability to do constructability analysis and value engineering on my projects; but, it also helps with perception. If I walk onto a site and have a rapport with the dockworkers or the welders, it sets up a different dynamic for me with the site management than if I’m seen as a cubicle-dwelling-analyst — especially being female.

    5. the spam queen*

      My brother is a mechanical engineer, and did not have an internship so he could focus on getting through the demanding course load. He had the same experience, lots of applications and few interviews. Eventually, he got a non-engineering job, but with the possibility of transferring to the engineering department in the same company down the road. After putting in a year and a half, he started looking for other opportunities and secured an engineering job by referral. I recommend reaching out to former classmates who know her abilities and former professors. Even though it’s not the same town, there are many interconnected businesses and relationships to be explored. Best of luck to her! Ps. In CA our construction and related engineers are so busy they can’t keep up with the demand – think building systems, controls, elevators and related.

      2. AnotherAlison*

        ABET accreditation necessitates that all ME curriculum are fairly similar, so everyone goes through a demanding course load. Some people extend out the # yrs in school, but many do it in 4 and do internships. If I was giving recommendations to students, it would be better to do an internship (or coop) and add a semester than to NOT have an internship.

        1. the spam queen*

          Of course it’s an advantage to do both, but not everyone has the same obligations, financial situation and timeline.

          It’s an easy thing to say add a semester, but quite another to live it. In addition, most engineering programs have a “track,” which doesn’t allow for a one semester extension. Some courses are offered only once a year, so your one semester addition quickly becomes two.

          But please, keep giving that advice to anyone you come across, because it definitely an advantage if it’s possible for their situation.

    6. GlorifiedPlumber*

      Disagree with the masters degree advice. Not needed, only specific degrees benefit (civil… that NCEES guy wants to make a masters a gate for PE, no thank you).

      Job market for junior engineers can be rough right now. What would I do in her situation, well, I would do the following: Quantity of quality applications will win, figure out where she wants to live, be willing to move, network her friends and anyone (like yourself) in any industry you may know. I have a sneaking suspicion that “quite a lot of applications” is just not enough. Taking on a junior engineer is tough… sometimes it is just plain a diceroll to get hired.

      I would do the following:
      – Figure out examples of places she wold live (Seattle, Socal, Portland, Bend, Vancouver WA. Denver, Houston, Raleigh, Greenville, Boston, Rural Montana, Salt Lake, Lehi, Atlanta, Savannah, Chattanooga, Knoxville, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Philly, Detroit, Chicago, DC, Austin, Boise, etc.). Rank em!
      – Figure out what industries exist at each location, she’s mechanical so focus on: manufacturing ANYTHING, refining, aerospace, semiconductor, auto industry, etc. This is hours and hours of research.
      – Start finding any employer with a web presence and more than 20 employees in these locations. This is hours and more hours of research.
      – Apply away… the bigger the corporation, the more likely they will have “entry level positions” and the smaller the corporation the more likely they will want someone “passionate” for an entry level job
      – Some big corporations may only have a “through your school” option for entry level work, as in they target recruit schools (ExxonMobil, etc.), that ship has likely sailed for her; that is okay!
      – Check your list of employers for NEW job content DAILY or at least WEEKLY (lots of work)
      – Work your way down the list
      – Simultaneously, hit all her classmates for info and tips; they all went out and got jobs, they can help.

      Not saying this is the case, but I often see folks struggling to find engineering work within one of several restrictions, and they axe out 98% of what is out there: 1) want to stay close to significant other, 2) want to stay close to family, 3) Afraid/Unwilling/Unknowledgeable about moving.

      This is engineering, finding a great job where you grew up, where you went to school, or where your sig other lives is a luxury! You may have to do without this luxury for a few years.

      If she did well at a well known school, she will be fine, just needs to get out there more. Employers are beating drums to hire women (I mean this as a positive… not attempting to be sexist here). Use their desire to her advantage, rock it out, and move up!

    7. Ultraviolet*

      Who was it who reviewed (or is reviewing?) her cover letter and resume? A lot of people who do that professionally (like university-based career centers) give pretty bad advice. I would recommend she do a lot of reading in the archives on this website and apply the advice there to her cover letter and resume. Especially the cover letter–for someone who doesn’t have a lot of experience, that’s a really good place to try to stand out.

      It sounds like she’d benefit from increasing the networking too. This is actually a place where her school’s career office might be able to help (if they offer services to recent grads, as some do). They might know fellow alumni she could talk to.

  122. Sparkly Librarian*

    Any copyeditor types who don’t have editing authority over their coworkers want to vent? What’s an amusing error you’ve seen?

    I’m trying not to sweat the small stuff with the new manager who doesn’t seem to be fitting in. That includes not commenting or acting on the multiple misspelled signs and labels she’s introduced recently. If I thought the result would be humor or appreciation, I’d’ve made correct versions and replaced them, perhaps with a casual comment to the creator. But my occasional internal eyeroll/cringe isn’t worth the awkward conversation or her sulking afterward. If a patron brings it up, I suppose I’ll have to fix it — and be thankful for the excuse!

  123. Squeegee Beckenheim*

    What do you do about a coworker who keeps making comments about your appearance?

    I’m female and in my late 20s, and I have a coworker (male, late 50s) who periodically makes random remarks about my appearance. When I first got contacts, he kept saying “wow, you’re not wearing your glasses today, you look so different”. I switched back to glasses one day; he needed to remark on it. I eventually snapped at him and said we weren’t going to have any more conversations about contacts or glasses because it was boring me.

    Now he’s back to making comments about how I have SO MANY CLOTHES. I actually don’t have an absurd number of work clothes, but compared to his standard engineer uniform, I guess it seems like it to him. And then yesterday he felt compelled to point out that I was wearing a necklace and I NEVER wear jewelry! (Not true, I wore a necklace two days ago too.)

    He’s not my boss, so I don’t care what he thinks about my appearance. Also, it makes me uncomfortable because until recently, I was the only woman in the department, and I’m also the only one whose appearance he is commenting on. How do I get him to shut up without snapping at him again? (I don’t actually care if I hurt his feelings, I just don’t want to seem unprofessional.) I’ve tried not really engaging with these remarks, but that’s not doing much.

    1. Manders*

      Gah, this is super weird. I think your best option is to become a broken record: pick a phrase like, “Why do you think that’s an appropriate thing to comment on?” or “That’s a weird thing to say to a colleague” and keep repeating it.

      My guess is that he’s seen people (appropriately) complimenting others on cute shoes or a new necklace or whatever, but lacks the tact to understand that these random comments about your appearance are crossing the line.

      1. Squeegee Beckenheim*

        I bet you’re right. I often feel like he’s trying to be my friend (albeit always in an awkward way), and I’m sure he’s overheard other coworkers say things to me like “that’s a nice dress” and “you look nice”, which I’ve responded well to. He’s just not seeing the difference between “that’s a nice dress” and “YOU WEAR CLOTHES”.

        I like the idea of “that’s a weird thing to say” because it is.

        1. SJ*

          He’s just not seeing the difference between “that’s a nice dress” and “YOU WEAR CLOTHES”.

          LOL. This is killing me. I know so many men like this.

      1. zora.dee*

        I agree with this, you need to be more specific here, I think. Just saying “that’s a weird thing to say” probably won’t make it clear to him exactly what the problem is.

        Try not to get too pissed off yet, there’s no reason to think he won’t change if you make it really clear. I would say something like: “It’s very uncomfortable to talk about my appearance or my clothes at work. Can we please avoid that subject in the future?” and then change the subject, sort of to model appropriate workplace small talk. Have any plans for the weekend? This is some crazy weather we’re having, huh? Jane said that new lunch place on the corner is great? something like that. And then drop it and try to get over it.

        If he does it again one more time, I would repeat the same thing, also in a neutral tone, to remind him. Third strike is when you have the right to start getting pissed and telling him to cut it out. Until then, you’re not sure it’s deliberate, he could just be super clueless, but well meaning.

        1. Laine*

          I have found it to be really effective to label exactly what’s wrong in a neutral tone and then change the subject or simply walk away, so in response to coworkers complaining about someone’s work: “that’s rude” or to someone talking about my appearance “no, don’t talk about my appearance” or “please don’t criticize others work to me instead of them” or “please don’t objectify me by talking about my appearance” if it’s someone I want to be gentle with

  124. OlympiasEpiriot*

    Company is getting new t-shirts (new shirts, new color, new design) and other gimcrack with our name…going to be distributed all over the office/company. Admin who is taking care of matching correct sizes to employees sits not far from me. I’m standing up (not meerkatting, but my head is visible), packing up to go and rep our company at a govt entity pre-proposal meeting. One of the partners is at her cubicle saying “Why are there all these ladies t-shirts? There’s only, what, 3 ladies in the company, right?” and he looks at me with a grin on his face like he’s joking.

    This is a guy who is rumored to ask scheduling to give him cuter junior engineers for his jobs.

    Thanks pal. I’m off to rep our company for a job YOU are pursuing and I’m SO glad you reminded me of our glass ceiling made out of the same stuff used in windows of embassies.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      1.) The people you work with, OMG. . .

      2.) My dept. got shirts in 1Q2014, and there are STILL a lot of leftover women’s shirts, so maybe he has a point there.

      1. OlympiasEpiriot*

        1) You don’t know the half of it and, yes, OMG.
        2) I’m female and prefer a men’s cut t-shirt. So do most of the women here. (And I hate the use of “ladies”.) So, yeah, I agree with the point, but for diff reasons. Also, we are 10% female engineers…with our staff numbers that is definitely x > 3.

        Hey, I think I really meant xx > 3.
        ;-)

  125. shep*

    Hello technical writers! I’m curious about your educational/work experience backgrounds, more specifically: Is prior technical background absolutely necessary to break into the field?

    I have an MFA in writing, but alas, no background in tech. I know it’s a completely different beast from creative work, and I’m happy where I am right now, but I’ve always been interested in technical writing and would like to eventually put feelers out. Or at least know I might have the option. :)

    1. SophieChotek*

      I’ll be interested in replies. I’m also interested in technical writing –how do you start? How do you get in? Hopes you get some good advice and insight.

    2. MJ*

      Not sure I can be very helpful but: I do it as a side gig/ consultant basis. My primary field is hard science and I was required to take a technical writing class as an undergraduate I’ve always been good at writing, enjoyed it, and I like continuously improving. I have a lot of experience writing SOPs and grant proposals for my normal jobs and some experience experience editing journal articles for publication by colleagues. Once as an undergrad I got to help rewrite a USDA protocol, which was probably my professional start in technical writing.

    3. Tennessee*

      You might try the Society for Technical Communication website at stc [dot] org for some info.

  126. Student*

    Super-upset over a work situation. Got a new hire who is not doing well – numerous, severe performance problems. We’ve spent months trying to address them and be constructive, and it’s gone nowhere – if anything , it is devolving.

    I’m not the new hire’s boss, just someone who’s worked with him a lot and mildly senior to him. His official mentor is a buddy of mine, but that buddy does not have hire/fire authority. The boss with hire/fire authority doesn’t work directly with any of the rest of us.

    After trying a lot of interventions (both me and my buddy), and finally have things escalate to an unacceptable point, we took things to the boss. Boss basically just doesn’t believe us on how severe and pervasive the problems are and is determined to give the new hire a “second chance”, which by my count is more like his fourth chance – he’s already been removed from three major projects because of his issues. I understand where the boss is coming from, since he’s never worked with any of us, but I am also deeply frustrated by not being given some benefit of the doubt due to my more established position, the extensive bad track record of the new hire, and the fact that we have multiple people (buddy, few other people) corroborating the extensive issues. Nobody is standing up to say this new hire had any value to the organization or done anything good – he does no work, is personally deeply unpleasant to be around, and has no valuable connections to anyone.

    Yesterday, someone on new hire’s current project (#4) came up to tell me how badly he’s doing and how he’s going to stop tasking the new hire because of it, and brought up some pretty questionable things. I really just want to be out of this, but dutifully pointed this project manager at my buddy and said, “Tell his mentor; new hire had similar problems on other projects and his mentor needs to be aware. His mentor may ask you to take it up with his boss.”

    I feel deeply resentful of, stressed out by, and annoyed at the whole situation. I don’t want to be so involved in this. I tried my best with the new hire and got nowhere – wasting substantial resources doing so, putting a project at serious risk of failure. I dutifully told management they had a serious issue brewing before it boiled over. We cut the new hire off my projects. I should be clear of this now! But no, my reward is that management thinks I might be some kind of crazy vindictive person out to get the new guy, my buddy keeps trying to dump the dirty work regarding the new guy at me and venting about it at me, and people come to me to complain about the guy instead of going through proper channels that would clear me of looking like a crazy vindictive person. All the while, the new hire is apparently clueless that he’s having performance problems and might just get a cushy job pushing out no real work, causing harm to various project, deeply frustrating virtually everyone he works with, while collecting a pay check.

    1. NicoleK*

      Been there. Done that. In hindsight, I should have handled my situation differently as it negatively affected my boss’s perception of me. It is so frustrating. But be mindful of your interactions and communication with new hire. And try to be unemotional when discussing new hire with upper management.

  127. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Just a general question on balancing my identity and presentation with professional and business casual dress norms.

    I have a professional degree and work (temporary now, looking for something stable), in a conservative field that is nevertheless adding diversity (mostly for women and LGBT people). I can dress well, but wouldn’t be caught dead in a skirt or very feminine clothes. I typically wear pantsuits for interviews (women in my field generally can wear either skirts or pants), and black or tan pants with a button down and/or blazer for a business casual office.

    I would like to wear some male-coded accessories (tie, cufflinks, and such). I feel more confident in masculine clothes, but I worry it could be distracting and/or make me read instantly as a lesbian, leading to subtle discrimination (it is not legal here to fire someone for being gay). I already have sort of a fitting haircut (not a crew cut, but as short as many common male haircuts- sort of a rough pixie with bangs, longest at just below my ears), and I wonder if I should grow that out, too- it might affect my prospects.

    Also, what do people who don’t fit their assigned gender norms do if they encounter a gendered dress code? I don’t mean necessarily a skirt requirement, but maybe something like “men should wear a tie/suit”- if I did, would I still be complying?

    1. Manders*

      I really like the look of ties for women, but yeah, I’d think twice about wearing them at work in an environment that’s that conservative. What about starting by tying a thin, lightweight scarf like a tie? That way you’ve got something that looks and feels a lot like a tie, but reads as more feminine. Then move on to adding some skinny ties to the rotation once you have a feel for the office culture.

      I wouldn’t suggest changing your hair, though, and I think pants and a blazer are just fine. It sounds like you wouldn’t be happy at the kind of office that would hold someone back for not wearing dresses anyway, and long hair can be a PITA to maintain if you’re not used to it and not interested in playing with hairstyles.

      1. Hibiscus*

        Yeah, I’d bring back the ascot or cravat look. Or like Manders suggests, long, thin scarves as tie stand-ins. Pattern will convey a lot of meaning/interest there. Plus, you must rule the vintage stickpin market! Once you’ve got more money, find a friendly tailor. I think your look sounds dashing.

        1. Manders*

          That’s a good point, a vintage look from the right time period might appear a little… softer, I guess? I was picturing more of a modern mod look with thin ties, form-fitting blazers, and sharp color contrasts–I love the style, but it’s hard to look feminine in it.

          1. Hibiscus*

            Worst comes to worst, you are just really inspired by “Hamilton.” Or still mourning Prince. And then buy a purple velvet frockcoat.

            1. OlympiasEpiriot*

              PLEASE buy a purple velvet frockcoat!

              I like wearing male-coded things as well, but I’ve got a mane of long hair. Depending on what the feel of the people you work with is, make something ‘less male’ (whatever tf that means, really, I hate the whole gender ID mess, but that’s a different post) by having the male tailoring, but brighter colors. Maybe think Dandy? Some people read that as more femme even with all the male accoutrements. You could do that with a mod look with some vintage accessories or patterned satin linings with those blazers.

              Are you familiar with David Taub? Cutter at Gieves & Hawkes. Check out his blog regularly. Not updated every day, but interesting.

              2. OlympiasEpiriot*

                Urg. Sorry. There’s also the tailoring that looks like riding apparel and 19th c. european military. Works very well for women, but has lots of that male-coded aspect to it. I have a lot of that.

        2. Hibiscus*

          And the type of thin silky scarves I was thinking of were on the Nordstrom site this weekens, under women’s accessories.

    2. SophieChotek*

      Love cufflinks…I have a small collection of vintage and new ones.

      But yeah…hate to say it….if in a more conserative environment, as unfair as it is, you might need to be careful about that. (I agree with the scarves; and cool pins can be added to blazers, heavier shirts!)

    3. Alton*

      To be honest, I’m realizing that I’m just more happy working in environments where my gender identity and presentation are less likely to be an issue. After working for an organization that has some out trans and gender-nonconforming employees, I’ve realized that working in a very conservative field wouldn’t work for me long-term.

      That said, as a temporary thing, I get feeling like you need to make some compromises, and I’ve been there, too. I don’t think you need to change your hair or wear skirts and heels. But yes, it’s possible that wearing men’s clothes (as opposed to women’s suits), men’s ties, cufflinks, and other masculine accessories could make you stand out. In the long run, you need to weigh out how important that is to you. In the meantime, you could avoid anything overtly masculine at first and then see, over time, what the environment is like in that particular office and how comfortable you feel adding things like cufflinks once you get to know everyone better. That’s more or less what I’ve done, but I do work in a more liberal field.

    4. Androgynous*

      Interesting question, I have wondered about the same thing but I can’t think about how to phrase my particular situation. Next time I give a talk I may wear a tie. I wore one to jury duty a few years back and found it very empowering. I am considering bolo ties. If Temple Grandin can pull them off so can I.

      1. Lemon Zinger*

        I saw Temple Grandin speak at an event once, and I was really impressed that she’s found such a practical and comfortable style for herself.

    5. Chaordic One*

      The pants and blazers sound perfectly acceptable, as does your hairstyle. If you feel more confident in masculine clothes, go ahead and wear the accessories you’ve suggested and see how things turn out. I don’t think you’ll have a problem. You didn’t say anything about shoes. (I would recommend sensible low-heeled pumps, but even if you wanted to wear men’s shoes I don’t see that as being a problem.)

      However, if you don’t seem to be making progress in interviews and are feeling a bit more desperate, then consider ditching the accessories temporarily. Also, consider color in your wardrobe. Sometimes more masculine clothing, such as the tie and cuff links, will be less obviously masculine (and more acceptable to your audience) if you mix them up with softer colored clothing, such as the tan pants or a camel colored jacket. But this is plan B. Try Plan A and being yourself first.

      As a woman, you have more flexibility than men in what you wear and what is considered “professional” appearance wise and I think you’d be complying.

    6. Androgynous*

      Have you checked out some of the gender neutral companies that have been popping up? They are too expensive and too formal for me because my job involves getting dirty sometimes. That being said: I get most of my work clothes from Duluth Trading for women. They come off as masculine but are cut for women and they way I wear them comes across as fairly “masculine” (this term annoys me, if I do it/wear it then it is feminine because I am female but whatever). I also wear a very short I guess pixie and get read as lesbian sometimes, get “sir” from a distance or behind, and was recently a victim of the bathroom police. I don’t think you should adjust your haircut: when I first came to the South I wore my hair in a bun and dressed uber traditional feminine conservative and it didn’t help with my job search. I think you should be yourself but maybe ease into the tie at a new job. I wouldn’t wear a tie to an interview although I would lIke to. Also for shoes GOOGLE “Lems” they make a nice gender neutral, I guess you would call it an Oxford, that I intend to buy as my dress shoes.

  128. Anonymouse*

    I started grad school a couple of months ago for an entirely unrelated field from what I am doing now. My current job makes me absolutely miserable and my career path pretty much is all dead-ends (and even if it weren’t, I’ve spent enough time in it to know this is NOT what I want to do).

    My work gives me so much anxiety and drains me so much, I feel like I cannot put forward my best effort towards school. However, I can’t quit because I have nothing lined up and I’m actually paid pretty well considering.

    I don’t know if I ever have a question other than, how do you balance terrible job plus school?

    1. shep*

      I had a terrible-but-flexible hourly job during graduate school. My boss was very NICE, but flaky, irresponsible, unreliable, etc., and as her second-in-command, I was constantly having to put out fires. It was close enough to full time hour-wise to where I was working almost every day (and one stretch of three weeks of being in the office at least two hours–usually more– per day).

      But I also had the benefit of a flexible graduate program, too. It was low-residency, so aside from the two weeks at the beginning of each semester, I didn’t have to organize my schedule around set classes.

      Again, I had above-average flexibility in both my job and my graduate program, but there were MANY nights I stayed up way too late, and/or napped between my admin shift and my teaching shift, and the once-yearly beg-off from previously scheduled hours.

      It is doable, though! :)

  129. NarrowDoorways*

    Did I tell you about one of the new temps in my office?! You guys, this guy….

    He cannot show up on time. Seriously. We’re pretty flexible. When he was hired, the hours to show up were between 7-9. Work 8 hours. Pretty simple, right? But this guy was waltzing in at 9:30-9:45 and leaving before 4:30. And yes, he was claiming on his time sheet he’d worked a full 8 hours.

    He was spoken to repeatedly about showing up before 9 and he got a little better. As in, he managed at least a couple days a week. He was also spoken to about not claiming hours he didn’t work.

    Then our summer hours went into effect. Most people try to leave a little earlier. The office manager put out an email asking all temps to show up early enough that they could do their full 8 hours by 4, because that’s now when the office manager would leave–and that’s when they had to leave, too, as he wouldn’t be there to supervise them.

    I was speaking to another salaried employee about how much work we’d just gotten in and commiserating about having to stay late. The temp overheard me say something along the lines of, “I hope to get out of here by 5, at the latest.”

    The temp immediately interjected with, “No, you have to leave at 4. I got an email that said so.”

    I corrected him with something like, “Well, I’m salary, so the rules are a little different for me. It’s expected that sometimes I may stay a bit late.”

    He was visibly upset and repeated, “No! There’s an email.”

    I think I just shook my head and continued on my conversation. Well, he stomped over to the office manager to complain. He said, “Well, I didn’t get in until 8:45 and if I have to leave by 4, I haven’t worked a full 8 hours. Why can’t I stay late if she can?”

    We’re a small office, so keep in mind everyone can hear. The office manager pointed out that he’s been caught claiming to work hours he hasn’t, so he can’t be trusted to work late without supervision. He also pointed out that I show up at 7 every day.

    This guy… I want to say kid, really, because he pouted like a child. He says, “You don’t understand how hard it is to get up every morning and go to work. This is my first job out of college and I’m not used to having such a grueling schedule.”

    The office manager just stared at him for a second and then said, “I get here every day at 6:30. I am not the correct person to whine about this to.”

    1. Dawn*

      “You don’t understand how hard it is to get up every morning and go to work.”

      There’s a support group for this. It’s called Everybody, and we meet at the bar.

    2. Megs*

      What the what? That KID (I’ll say it if you don’t wanna!) is something else, for sure. “Grueling schedule” to get in by 9 and stay 8 hours? HAH!

    4. TheLazyB*

      Wow.
      My DH is the very definition of a night owl and when he was 14 he took a job where he started at 4.30am and had to be on time. If he’d said that they would have laughed for like half an hour, then sacked him.

      I can’t…. He told you, not-a-temp, that you weren’t allowed to stay past four?! I can’t even……

    6. Alton*

      I went from happily staying up until 2 AM or later every night to having to get up at 6 AM for work. I’ve never once thought about complaining about this to my manager. I mean, I knew the hours and commute time when I took the job. Everyone who has to get up early for work and isn’t a morning person knows this struggle.

    7. Joanna*

      I think you guys need to start scheduling early meetings and refusing to tell him what was covered if he doesn’t make it to them

    8. Observer*

      So, this temp is hourly, correct? Perhaps when he starts getting paychecks that are “short”, he’ll start getting it together.

      Unless he’s in a position that’s hard to hire temps for, I think I’d start looking at progressive discipline that could lead up to firing.

      I hope that the Office Manager’s response shocked him into SOME awareness.

  130. Jay*

    Hello community!

    Would appreciate your help with my current dilemma.

    I current have two offers on the table for the same job profile. Company 1 is in a bustling city (think Boston) that I’m not so attracted to (though I haven’t been there), but their offer is for $80,000 with better benefits. Company 2 is in a town I can see myself living in, but their offer is for $58,000. My long-term goal is to settle with a house and have a good community of friends, and I’m wondering which option is more prudent at this stage of my life (I’m 30). While I grew up in a city, it doesn’t attract me as much anymore. The town could be a place I could find that community in, but should I instead save the additional money and use it to find a future house in an ideal town?

    1. Dawn*

      Check the cost of living between Boston and Smaller Town and then go from there. Chances are your cost of living in Boston would eat up a lot of the $22K difference so your $ after cost of living might be the same or even a little higher in Smaller Town.

      1. Jay*

        Thanks for the response. I did the comparison. The cost-of-living does go up, but I would still save about $7,000 more by living in Boston.

        1. SophieChotek*

          Have you check real estate costs too in Boston vs Smaller Town.
          Even if you save about $7ooo, if long term goal is to live/buy house, that might need to factor in.
          I used to live in Boston, but no longer, and have heard in 6 years since I’ve moved, the rend in outer area of Boston, have gone up over $1000 a month, as housing squeeze gets tighter and T-expands. I know you said Boston-like city, but rents go up (everywhere, to be sure), but that added $7000 might disappear faster than you expect. But living/buying property outside of “Boston” proper might be a long-term goal for you? Or still too large? Suburbs often have their own culture/community different than the city.

          On the other hand, smaller town, with cost of living being somewhat lower, don’t always have as many employment opportunities…if Job 2 doesn’t work out?

          OTH, you said benefits were better for Boston-job, and that is important too.

          Also I guess consider other things – entertainment (Boston is great for concerts, sports, museums, close to NYC, etc.) – those might be things to consider. Or even good access to good hospitals/medical specialists, or if children are involved (good education options).

      2. Manders*

        Yeah, if the cost of rent is comparable to Boston, that larger salary may actually leave you with a lower standard of living. Don’t count on being to save much of that $22K difference after taxes and rent.

        I personally love bustling cities, but I’d strongly discourage anyone from moving to a big city who doesn’t actually enjoy some of the less comfortable quirks of city living.

    2. Student*

      There are cost-of-living websites you should go look at, so you can enter the specific locations you’re actually looking at. Also look around a bit at real estate reports for each area, since you want a house – compare house size/location/yard, not just price. Cost of living varies so much across the country that it’s astounding.

      Also consider benefits – things like matching retirement contributions and expected health care costs in particular.

      My gut feeling is that the $58k is actually the better financial deal for you, but there are a bunch of possibilities where $80k is the better option.

      1. Jay*

        While Boston does end up eating up a fair share of the savings, as I mentioned in the reply above, I also do get to save a chunk. I wouldn’t really be interested in a house in Boston, unless I end up loving the city. I’d prefer a house in Small Town-like settings, so the question becomes whether I use those savings to buy one somewhere else or just take the plunge into this Small Town with a house.

        1. Manders*

          Buying a house earlier and paying several years of mortgage payments instead of rent might end up being the same, tax and expense-wise, as saving up for a larger down payment but spending money on rent for longer and not being able to get tax deductions for a mortgage.

          If you know anyone who works in real estate, it might be a good idea to have a chat with them about your plans, because this stuff can be counter-intuitive.

    3. AL*

      A salary of $80k could put you in a much better position long term, because even if COL eats up the difference while you live in the Boston area now, if/when you move to the community you prefer in a couple years, it’s unlikely your salary will drop significantly. I guess it depends on how small the town is, though. We started in big expensive city, with corresponding pay, then moved to a bunch of medium cities and were able to keep the pay. Rightly or wrongly, employers so often go off what you were making before.

    4. Anxa*

      I don’t mean to project anything on to you, but how interested are you in having a spouse? Children?

      I would think that may influence your decision to a degree, although if you’re not currently in a relationship or already a parent, it may be difficult to figure out HOW they would influence things.

      My SO is looking at two jobs (no offers, but is being heavily recruited for these positions) and we may be looking at taking a temporary ‘paycut’ to be in a city where there would be more opportunity for me.

      If those aren’t factors, I still think it would make sense to imagine what your social circle will look like. How important is it to be able to entertain in your home (city living may be tight). How important is it to have access to interest groups and have a lot of cultural events?

      1. Jay*

        I do have a spouse and we don’t plan on having kids. I think it’s more important to me to entertain people in my home than to attend cultural events. Yes, cramped city quarters aren’t that inviting.

    5. Kara Zor-El*

      Are there small towns within commuting distance of Boston that you would be interested in settling in?

      1. Jay*

        Hmm.. haven’t really looked into it, but that’s a good point. But that would bring up transit issues, which is another negative against the city vs being able to have an easier ride in the town.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      This is a biased comment. One mistake I have made in life is turning things into a 27 step process because I THOUGHT that was how to do it.
      Go directly to what you want. Go with Company 2. Write a good budget and stick to it. If you want to pick up extra work, then do that. Live modestly while you are saving for your goals.

      I moved to this town when I was in my 30s. I have been here 24 years and that was an investment on my part that I could never have foreseen. I am so glad I came here when I did and I am so glad to be in my permanent place. I know these people and I know the area. I understand the dynamics going on and I can navigate relationships here. I vote pick the town and start throwing down roots and see if the roots take hold for you.

      1. CM*

        I agree. If money isn’t a huge factor, go where you’ll be happy. Since your question mentioned that you were looking for a community where you’d be happy to settle down, and didn’t mention that money is a driving factor for you (for example, maybe your #1 priority is saving for a down payment), my guess is that the lower-paying job will provide you with a better lifestyle than you would have in a city where you don’t really want to live.

  131. Not Karen*

    I was cleaning out my inbox and my keystrokes were too fast and permanently deleted an incoming e-mail before seeing what it was… Oops. I hope it wasn’t important!!

    1. UnCivilServant*

      At least with my organization, Outlook will still recover “permanatly” deleted e-mails if they’re younger than a certain retention period.

        2. UnCivilServant*

          A separate thank you from me for supplying the missing piece.

          I coudn’t remember how to do it. I have a habit of not clearing “Deleted Items” for weeks and gathering a few thousand messages in there might tell you how frequently I need to make use of that particular feature (or rather not make use of it).

  132. BRR*

    So I have a high up person I do occasional work for who never remembers that I completed a project and asks for it a second time, usually in a more frustrated tone. Any tips on dealing with senior staff who can’t keep their email organized? So far I’ve just done the here it is, I wanted to make sure it went through because maybe *unlikely tech issue* happened and if that’s the case I can offer an alternative. Is that even a good way of handling it? I’m just not a fan of being told I didn’t do something on time when I did.

    1. TGIF (USA)*

      Don’t know if this would really apply to your situation: If you can find an old email where you already sent the info/project, then forward that email to them with your new (friendly) comment. Then you don’t need to point out that you already did this, the forwarded email will speak for itself. I used to work with a guy who did this all the time, couldn’t organize his email and apparently couldn’t search Outlook either. Some people might consider this “passive aggressive”, but I don’t think it’s aggressive in any sense; it’s just setting the record straight.

      1. velika*

        This is what I do. One of my bosses is terrible at this and always, always asks me at least twice for work I’ve already completed for her, even if I’ve emailed it to her and told her to her face that it’s in her inbox.

      2. CM*

        I do this too. You could also flag the email as “important,” put something appropriate in the subject line in all caps that you use consistently when you’re sending completed work (like “ATTACHED: Project review document”), and drop by their office to say, “Hey, I sent you the project review document earlier, let me know if you need anything else.”

    2. Student*

      You’ve figured out one thing that doesn’t work – telling him via email what you’ve done.

      Go find something that does work. Take cues from him, does he usually talk to you via phone, meeting, email, IM, smoke signals from the moon? Mimic what he does when he wants info, because that’s probably how he prefers to communicate. Ask his colleagues for tips on reaching him.

      If your next communication method doesn’t work, try another. Maybe your emails need to be shorter, or longer, or have links, or graphs and pictures and reports. Maybe they need different subject lines. Maybe email is just the wrong way to go.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      My husband used to back his email up with a voice mail message. “Hi, Boss. This is just to make sure you know that x is in your email. have a great day!”

  133. Librarian Ish*

    OH and how could I have forgotten this?

    My partner has been job searching for almost a year (fired in Sept) and recently found a new job at a start up. It’s been going great for the last couple weeks….and then the office next door burnt down and they are scrambling for a place to work. Needless to say, it’s been a stressful week – it’s an analytical chemistry lab, and you don’t just “dust off” the LC/MS, y’know?

    No question from this, unless you want a conversation starter: worst job mishap, go.

    1. Amber Rose*

      The toner cartridge for the printer blew up once and coated the entire main floor in black powder. And there was the time my boss went to change one of our huge fluorescent light bulbs and forgot to turn off the ceiling fan. Bumped the bulb into the fan and it basically exploded shards of glass everywhere.

      Stuff exploded a lot at that job, come to think of it.

      1. UnCivilServant*

        Myself and another IT guy were trying to set up a desktop in the datacenter to plug it directly into a server for some diagnostic work (we couldn’t get our hands on a laptop). Without thinking, I plugged it into the rack power supply.

        The desktop was rated for 120v. The rack ran at 220v. Flames literally shot out of the power supply with an audible pop as it burned out instantly. Luckily we didn’t trip a breaker.

        1. Amber Rose*

          We have electrical issues like that every day (because we use high power cheater cords). But the weirdest one was the overhead light fixture. It just started slowly melting one day. Just as the stream of plastic reached the table and a coworker noticed it, it blew out in a shower of sparks.

            1. Amber Rose*

              We didn’t even write up an incident report because wtf even happened there? Nobody knows.

          2. UnCivilServant*

            The difference in my case is we knew the racks ran at a different voltage and that there were wall outlets at 115v. I just unthinkingly plugged it into the nearest power source.

            *BAM!*

            But it was covered under the overall maintenence contract for our desktops. They replaced the hardware without questions.

          3. Not So NewReader*

            Ohhhh…. I am not sure I wanna say the name brand. But I bought new overhead light fixtures for my laundry room. Four foot fluorescent tubes, 4 bulbs in a light. I had used it for several days and one day I looked and there was smoke pouring off of it. I quickly unplugged it. Took the lights and light bulbs back to Lowes and asked for my money back.
            Something inside the light failed and caused it to overheat, just like yours.
            Just because you don’t know what it is, does not mean you cannot write it up. That is a huge safety issue and should be reported.

            I changed to a different brand light and got different bulbs and I have not had any more problems.

  134. TGIF (USA)*

    So this is work related though it also affects my non-work life. I often need to call customers, vendors, coworkers at other locations, and customer service people both for my job and outside of work. Being a bit of an aviation enthusiast, I regularly read/watch/listen to aviation-related materials, including air traffic control, and I’ve picked up some habits… For instance, I haven’t said “oh” for zero in years, I find myself wanting to say affirmative/negative instead of just yes/no (which can be easily misheard), I read numbers out, etc. and I also seem to have picked up the entire ICAO alphabet by osmosis! I’m too embarrassed to use these skills in everyday phone communications, though — it feels too weird, lol — even though it would make their jobs (and my life) easier. So my question is, would it be too weird, or is it within the range of acceptable human social behavior? I do work in transportation (of the ground variety) which might make it slightly less weird. This community is consistently reasonable and realistic, so, what do you think?

    1. Dawn*

      “Zero” instead of “Oh”- fine
      reading out numbers- fine
      ICAO alphabet- that’d be kinda weird and people might not be able to quickly parse what you’re saying (I know I’d be confused!)
      “affirmative/negative”- that’d be REALY weird and I’d probably giggle a little bit every time you did it, but it’d be your quirk and I’d get used to it pretty quick

      1. TGIF (USA)*

        Lol alright. Thanks :) FWIW I don’t want to say affirmative/negative in face to face conversations, it’s just over the phone. I’ve been trying to say “yes, that’s correct” and “no, that’s not correct” instead since the issue is really that yes/no can be misheard. The ICAO alphabet doesn’t come up much, it’s only if I were spelling something over the phone (think computer ID, MAC address, VIN, etc). (Although I just heard one of the phone guys spell a customer’s name using it! Lol)

      2. Natalie*

        Eh, I wouldn’t worry too much about the ICAO alphabet – I’ve noticed a lot of people using it in tech support, accounting, etc. I think there’s enough basic familiarity from culture that people will understand what they’re hearing, even if it takes them an extra second to process “whiskey tango foxtrot”.

        1. TGIF (USA)*

          I’ve heard it mostly in tech support as well, it makes reading various system numbers and addresses easier for sure. And I agree most people are familiar, though I would tend to say “W as in Whiskey” etc. Also, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot seems to be the first letters that people learn, kinda like learning to swear first when learning a new language. :P

    2. Aurion*

      Ha, I have the ICAO/NATO alphabet posted by my phone even though I also picked up most of it by osmosis (it was a trick I discovered back when I was a receptionist). My sales guy beside me also uses it, but he doesn’t need a chart for even the obscure ones. :) I actually don’t talk on the phone too much at my current job, but once a sales rep at a shop asked me if I used the phone a lot because I enunciate very well and I use the NATO alphabet when I say my address/postal code.

      I think your habits are good ones for anyone who has to talk on the phone a lot. For the aforementioned sales guy, to bridge the gap between the NATO alphabet and regular vernacular he’ll go “B as in Bravo, P as in Papa, etc.”. The affirmative/negative is the only one I don’t use personally/don’t hear it used, mostly because it’s an extra mouthful of syllables, but it would only warrant an eyebrow raise at worst. In the transportation industry, I don’t think it’d even get an eyebrow raise.

      1. TGIF (USA)*

        That’s cool! I didn’t remember some of the obscure ones either but then I actually went and looked them up. Haha.

        Yeah, I do the bridging the same way, to avoid confusing the other person, lol. I think affirmative/negative is overkill for most situations, where a misunderstanding is not safety-critical and there is time to clarify.

        Thanks for the feedback :)

    3. periwinkle*

      Sounds perfectly normal to me. But then again, I work in the aviation industry and have spent time around the .gov/.mil world!

      1. TGIF (USA)*

        That’s awesome, do you mind me asking what you do? I have a goal of getting into the aviation industry!

        I currently work in logistics, mostly planning and forecasting, identifying opportunities for improvement and creating business proposals/cases, etc. with some operations work too. I hope to do more operations research and optimization, but that can wait. :P Do you have any thoughts on getting in to the aviation industry, I suppose more of the logistics and planning side? Thanks!

  135. "stressed" LW*

    In December, Alison published my letter: https://www.askamanager.org/2015/12/my-manager-keeps-exaggerating-about-me.html

    This is kind of a vent and kind of a follow up question, and I would appreciate hearing from other readers again.

    The advice from everyone provided great insight. I’ve paid more attention to what my supervisor (S) says and what I know/find out. Often the hyperbole is for drama. Almost as often – intentionally or not – it casts others in a negative light. Occasionally, it’s just…lies. I’ve calmly addressed some of it in the moment; however, it’s habitual and sometimes so outrageous that I don’t have the energy to keep up. I don’t feel I can address it directly, because when I bring up (various) serious work issues, S either acts like she doesn’t know what’s going on or blows off my concerns.

    As much as I like my job, I’ll probably look for another one. My question now is whether I can ask my department head (DH) to be a future reference – i.e., after I leave. DH knows my work, and it would be appropriate to ask her. The sticky point is possibly having to explain only wanting her as a reference. (I’m afraid she’ll say something like “S would be a better resource she she directly supervises you.”) Or, maybe I am overthinking this?

    1. EddieSherbert*

      I think, at least in theory, that the department head wouldn’t question things unless she is not comfortable giving you a reference (in which case, it doesn’t matter why you asked here versus anyone else). So you might be overthinking it.

      But I understand wanting to have an answer just in case! If possible, you could say it’s because of a cool project she was extra-involved in with you? Something like, “I’m really proud of the work I did on XYZ, which you were also really enthusiastic about/involved in.”

      Good luck!

  136. chickabiddy*

    I have read a lot and posted a little, but my old username was too close to my real-life name for this one.

    I am a Teapot Finisher. I detail and polish teapots before they go to the client. Recently my manager told me that I had ruined several teapots. I am not so arrogant as to believe that I am above making mistakes, but I am pretty good at what I do; plus, I think I would have noticed if the teapot was “ruined”. I was horrified, though, and immediately apologized profusely and asked for details. He replied that he didn’t remember exactly what I had done wrong, but he would show me next time, although there had better not be a next time. I have reviewed the Teapot Finishing manual as well as the Teapot Assembling manuals in case there was anything that I had misunderstood, and I did not see anything.

    I’ve only had this contract for a few months. I work remotely and the teapot factory is in a different country, so I have no idea what the organizational culture is like. I have very little contact with other teapotters and it seems as if that is the way the manager wants it: communication is supposed to go through a centralized messaging system to which he has complete access.

    I see red flags flying high. I am prepared for Bad Things to happen. However, this is a good fit for me in other ways and as I wrote above, I’ve only been here for a few months so I would like to make this work for at least a while longer. What, if anything, should I be doing to address this further?

    1. EddieSherbert*

      That is super stressful. I’m sorry :(

      Try to check in him with him regularly. Ask how things are looking and pass on any questions. Maybe once in a while, also remind him to let you know ASAP if he notices anything he’d like done differently.

    2. Adam V*

      > He replied that he didn’t remember exactly what I had done wrong

      Yeah, this is a big red flag to me too. If I saw several “ruined” teapots, you can be sure that I’d remember the details of at least one of them well enough to use it as an example.

      > communication is supposed to go through a centralized messaging system to which he has complete access.

      Maybe this is me being paranoid, but if he’s got “complete access”, I might consider taking screen shots of messages sent to me, just so he can’t do something like adding on a new requirement after the fact and asking you “why didn’t you do X? You need to pay more attention to detail”.

      When I put it all together, I wonder if he’s got a local friend who’s expressed interest in being a Teapot Finisher, so he’s thinking “let’s build a trail of evidence that I can point to when I decide to fire the remote contractor and hire my buddy”. Or maybe he just doesn’t like having remote contractors, and he’s doing it to say “this is why we need to keep this in-house… and expand my empire”.

      1. chickabiddy*

        I think I will screenshot messages; good idea.

        They only hire Teapot Finishers with certain backgrounds that are not generally found in the home country, so most of us are (very) remote.

  137. KatieKate*

    I am overthinking EVERYTHING today. Can someone tell me if this email sounds good? it’s for an internal transfer.

    Dear Hiring Manager,

    I am writing to officially apply for the position of Teapot Manager. I have already discussed this transition with my current manager.

    Thank you,
    KatieKate

    Does it need anything else? Do I need the bit about my current manager? The job is mine, I just need to jump through HR hoops. THANKS

    1. shep*

      If everyone is in the know (including the hiring manager), I think it should be fine. If you aren’t sure, maybe you could even send it to the hiring manager to vet herself? (This is something that would be done in my office, but it might be different in your office culture.)

    2. Chickaletta*

      I’d reword the second line, the way it reads now sounds like the transition is a done deal. You could say something like, “My current manager supports my desire to apply for this position”.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      It sounds sort of terse. Go with something like:

      I’m writing to apply for the position of Teapot Manager. I’ve discussed my interest in the role with current manager, and she supports my application. I’m attaching my resume and cover letter here, and I’d love to talk with you further about the position if you think I might be the right match.

  138. The Alias Gloria Has Been Living Under, A.A., B.S.*

    Does anyone work in Benefits? How did you get started? I worked for a HRO/Benefits company years ago but in an admin role. I currently work at an insurance carrier on the group insurance side. Lately I’ve been thinking about moving over to Benefits directly, but I’m not sure how. My own company’s benefits are not handled at our office and I’m not willing to move to the city our HQ is in. So that’s not an option. So, I’m not sure what I’m looking for, but does anyone have any ideas? :)

  139. Sick and Tired*

    Hi everyone! Long time lurker, first time commenter.

    To make a long story short, I work in an independently owned hardware store in a small town. I worked for four years under OldBoss and when OldBoss sold the business NewBoss was more than happy to hire me on for the summer (as I go to university again in the fall). Unfortunately, due to ever worsening chronic back pain I’ve been missing a lot of work and have been forced to leave shifts early because the pain is too much to bear. I don’t think it’s fair to NewBoss to keep staying on since I can’t really perform the work I need to do as part of my job and have been unreliable because of the pain. So I’m thinking of quitting next week.

    My question is: does anyone have any scripts for quitting? We’re very informal; he won’t expect a resignation letter or anything. He knows my health problems are due to [incurable genetic condition] and has been sympathetic to my struggles so I want to thank him for that while acknowledging I have not been able to do the work he hired me to do and so quitting is the best thing for myself and the company.

    Note: I want to keep it short and sweet because my eyes automatically seem to water in any emotional situation. It’s embarrassing and I’d rather not cry in front of my boss when I’m nearly 20 years old.

    Any help is very much appreciated!

    1. Amber Rose*

      In your position, I’d probably leave thanks by giving a small card or something on the last day and just leave it as a simple verbal resignation.

      “My health has been making this position very difficult. I’d like to make [date] my last day here.”

    2. Adam V*

      Just be straightforward – “as you might have guessed, my back problems are getting worse and it’s to the point where I don’t feel like I can do the full job or work a full shift any more, so I think I’m going to have to resign.”

      Feel free to add on something like “Thanks for the opportunity” or “I appreciate you keeping me on this summer”. If you’re worried about watery eyes, then you can immediately follow that up with “When would you like my last day to be?” If you go straight back to business talk, you might trick your body into forgetting about the mushy stuff.

      (I have the same watery eye issue, except that mine is usually exacerbated by the feeling of unfairness – so it’s hard when complaining to the boss about having to work crazy hours when others go home, or how my coworkers are giving me extra work, or how they miss their deadlines and it makes me look bad.)

    3. animaniactoo*

      “Jack, I want to thank you for how patient and supportive you’ve been. Unfortunately, I think it’s time to give up the ghost and acknowledge that I can’t reliably do this anymore. Would you prefer that I make today my last day, or do you want a couple of weeks to replace me?”

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      my eyes automatically seem to water in any emotional situation

      Ugh. Me too.

      When I’ve quit past jobs, I’ve opened with “I wanted to let you know that I’ve been offered a new opportunity and I’ve decided to take it.” And then the conversation usually naturally flows from there. To avoid the watering eyes, I try to keep “appreciation” comments about the organization and the opportunity, rather than about the person themselves — and then follow-up on my last day with an email that contains more personal appreciation directly to those who I want to thank.

  140. Chickaletta*

    TORN between accepting a part-time job or staying focused on my freelance business. I need some outside perspective please.

    Benefits of freelancing:
    – convenience of working the hours and days I want
    – nobody looking over my shoulder
    – no nasty coworkers
    – variety of clients
    – not feeling like I’m tied down
    – can adjust my schedule to accommodate my son, who’s just starting grade school this year
    – can take vacation as long as I want. I love travel and spent a month abroad this summer. If I work for someone else, then I can’t do that anymore.

    Benefits of being employed:
    – steady income
    – being associated with a well-known, quality company which is true in this particular case because the job is probably one of the most desirable for my field where I live. There’s a part of me that’s like “take it! who would turn down a job working for these people! I might not get this kind of opportunity again!”
    – fewer distractions than at home (Unless I have a specific deadline for something, I get sidetracked by social media, working in the yard, crap like that.)
    – being out of the house and around people
    – potential for job advancement or full time in the future (their words)

    I’m not sure that the amount I’d get paid is worth it. It’s just part time, and I can make the same amount of money working half the hours as a freelancer. I’m not now because I don’t have the clients, but if I work on it I can get there. I’ve considered doing both, but the problem with doing both is a) I have a child and can’t afford full time daycare at this point, b) it would be difficult to grow my client base if I’m working outside the business 20 hours a week, the hours I’d spend at the part-time job are hours I need in order to expand my client base, c) Chances are I’ll burn out sooner or later.

    What do you think? What else am I missing?

  141. Anon E Mouse*

    My annual review is next week and when I was brought on last year, our CEO (we’re a small company) told me in an email we would revisit salary in 6 months if I took his offer. I did and nothing happened at 6 months. Do I have a case to say something if the new salary they offer is the same (or lower) than the one I had tried to negotiate, or should I avoid bringing up that the salary discussion didn’t happen? I realize this is tough to balance in a review discussion but my experience is 6 months stronger than the experience level I had 6 months ago, so if what’s proposed is too low, I’d like to know how to handle it.

  142. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    My 2nd-3rd week at newjob and I wrote new rules and presented them in a group setting with positive feedback(!!). (And I was known in high school as the second-quietest in the class)….plus learning about and ordering lightly used books about management. Are there useful books on management for a newbie?

  143. Puzzled manager*

    Someone who works for me (A) was chatting with me and told me they met someone else who works for me (B) at a public event, and B was with B’s intern, and that they seemed close, maybe dating. A is not a gossipy person so I think A was really just telling me what A had been doing over the weekend (and they did tell me other things they did over the weekend). Now I am not sure what to do. If B is indeed “close” to the intern, that is problematic to me because there is a power issue there. B and the intern work on the other side of the building so I mostly see B at our scheduled meetings. Any ideas how to go about figuring this out? Do I just stroll to B’s area to see them working together? do I meet with the intern to see “how it’s going”?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Is B new to managing? If so, have you ever discussed professional boundaries when managing with her? If not, now’s the time. You can be direct about why — “Someone mentioned they spotted you out this weekend with A. How’s it going with managing her? … We’ve never talked about navigating professional boundaries with people you manage, and hearing you’re hanging out socially made me think we should…” etc.

      (Frankly, it’s an issue even if they’re just becoming BFFs, even if they’re not dating.)

  144. Sparkly Librarian*

    I had a brief but rewarding conversation with my department boss this week — I called for one reason and since we hadn’t caught up in a while, she hit another few points (including “How’s the new unit manager working out?” to which I was able to convey quite a lot without saying anything catty or unprofessional). One point was that I had been on the internal transfer list for a lateral move for a few months, and that a position on that list had become available in another department — the one I want to be in long-term. She expressed that she supported my career development but would really miss working with me and would “cry” if she had to replace me. (This wasn’t weird; just a turn of phrase.) In turn, I got to tell her that I wasn’t trying to leave the unit or the department because I was unhappy (nothing to do with new unit manager), and that I still would be happy here for another couple of years if I didn’t get the transfer for some reason. And that I’m sure we would still have occasion to work with each other if I did move to the new department. After all, I plan to be with this system for the rest of my career, and working across departments is a valuable skill.

    Rarely has any previous boss/employer expressed gratitude and appreciation outside of references (which are apparently glowing, but that’s a direct request). Even if I hear thanks from time to time, whether they enjoy working with me and think I make a positive professional contribution hasn’t come up. More like “You do your job well and I can rely on you in a pinch. Keep doing that. The End.” It’s been very nice to hear these extra, unprompted things from a boss I respect. And it’s weird going from one good job with a good boss to another good job with a good boss (I respect this one, too), when I genuinely would be happy with either option and I can make that choice.

  145. Vicki*

    I’ve been having a discussion on this topic over in Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/vicki.vlb/posts/10154202047302891

    A former co-worker, now a manager at TheLargestBookstoreOnEarth, wrote: “You don’t really understand millennials until you get a call from an employee’s mother to complain about their performance review.”

    I responded that it’s not the millennials; it’s their parents.

    A friend responded “What I suspect is that characteristics that people scoff at that are supposedly associated with some specific generation are a) characteristics evenly distributed across humanity at any age (laziness, sense of entitlement, self-involvement) and and b) characteristics of young people generally, regardless of what generation they supposedly belong to.”

    I agree with this.

    But what I’m wondering is – is the behaviour of the PARENTS evenly distributed across any era? Is my friend correct when he asks, “I am imagining that there has never been a time when some uber-pushy parent has interfered with their kid’s work life. A single anecdote like this does not tell us anything about a class of people. Is my point, I guess?”

    I don’t recall seeing these “parent called manager about adult child’s review” happening so much in the past. Are we just seeing it now because of Social Media? Or is it really happening more often?

    1. Manders*

      Oof, I think there’s so much going on here that it’s hard to pin the blame on just one cultural trend. A few of the many, many things that could be causing an increase or perceived increase:

      1) Economic instability makes parents more worried about their kids careers/needing their kids to provide for them in retirement.
      2) Young adults are more likely to be stuck at home by rising rents and stagnant salaries, so parents who are already on the controlling side can be all up in their business.
      3) It’s just plain easier to find a phone number and place a call than it used to be–you can Google a business’s number in seconds and call from anyway at no cost.
      4) News organizations crank out a lot of content about this “trend” (because it gets clicks, because the pressure to churn out more and more content is brutal, etc.), which makes people perceive it as more common than it really is, which makes bosses more likely to blame an entire generation and parents more likely to think that this behavior is normal.
      5) Some young adults who in past generations might not have been inclined to work at the kind of job that requires performance reviews, or might have worked at mom and pop’s store, or might have stayed home in a caretaking role, are in the workforce out of necessity and are floundering.
      6) We’re quicker to complain on social media now, reinforcing the perception that the problem is widespread.
      7) The parenting advice that was most popular when many millennials were young kids turned out to be less than ideal for fostering independence and encouraging learning from failure. Some young adults may legitimately been having trouble, not because of “participation trophies” or whatever, but because their parents were not given good advice about when to back off.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Is the behaviour of the PARENTS evenly distributed across any era?
      I do think so.
      I can’t imagine my parents (older and not Boomers) EVER contacting any of my managers about anything, and I’ve been working since I was 12. Part of “learning to grow up” was learning how to deal with work in their minds.

      The “helicopter parent” does seem to be a fairly recent phenomena that I’ve noticed in the last 10 years or so, though I’m sure there have been tiger mothers and stage mums forever! Today, it seems parents are very interested in being more like “friends” to their kids, and you hear that all the time “My mom is my best friend,” kind of thing from young people. To me, it seems weird. (love my mom, but friend is not how I describe)

      I’ve noticed that millennials from larger families are not that way. So maybe being a helicopter parent is driven by single parent/only child type scenarios and there is just more of that today due to divorce rates and economic factors such as smaller family units.

    3. fposte*

      That’s a big “it depends,” I think. I do believe that American parents became increasingly involved in their kids’ lives in the post-WWII generations, with each generation getting a little more scrutinized and a little more protected.

      But there’s always been times when parents were hugely involved with their adult children. It was a way to get military advancement as a British officer in the Victorian and Edwardian eras, it was how you got places in business in early 20th-century US, and so on. I think it may have been perceived as a slightly more in-group phenomenon at that point, since it worked especially within class enclaves, but it still was a whole lot of parental involvement that wasn’t perceived as odd.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I agree. I think the contested areas change, but I think each generation has it’s share of parents that believe their kid is Great Stuff just because s/he has weight and takes up space.

        I can remember a story of a parent barging into my MIL’s kitchen to tell her how rotten her kids were. This happened in the 50s. I can remember a kid in the 60s who threw firecrackers at a teacher and mommy came running to rescue him from the meanie principal. I remember doctor’s kids in my old town walked on water, just because they were a doctor’s kid. I also remember people talking/gossiping, “Well, the kid is a SMITH so, of course, [fill in with how the kid got off the hook for a big transgression].”

        Stories of parents not doing their jobs are older than dirt.

        I love what my aunt used to say, “We all parent in our own stupid way.” Until parents become omnipotent I think the problem will persist.

    4. CM*

      Interesting question! I do think parents have become more and more hands on in recent years, and sometimes in bad ways. However, I don’t think this is only a millennial thing. When I was in school about 25 years ago, I remember being shocked to discover that a LOT of parents were contacting teachers directly and lobbying to get their kids’ grades changed, and otherwise intervening in their kids’ lives and trying to secure advantages for them. I don’t think it’s evenly distributed throughout history, but it’s not new either.

  146. LA Gaucho*

    Office Supplies!

    I have been going to town with my office supplies over the last 6 months (although my love for office supplies really started about 5 years ago). If I am going to be sitting here for 8+ hours a day, I might as well surround myself with some good looking things.

    I initially felt guilty requesting these items, but when I looked at our catalog most if not all of my “fun” items were cheaper than the standard ones.

    Gold paperclips, ordered. A beautiful non-traditional tape dispenser, got it. A Swingline stapler that isn’t black, check. Pens that don’t suck. I love it all!!!

    1. Amber Rose*

      My swingline stapler is white with a blue leaf pattern. And I have event stickers for my calendar and fancy highlighters.

      Office supplies are great.

    2. SL #2*

      Love it! I’m the one in charge of ordering our office supplies, but I gladly take requests right down to what model of pen my coworkers want, and even with general items like paper clips, I try to get better-quality stuff for everyone.

      1. Mirilla*

        That’s incredible. I used to order office supplies too at my last job. I really enjoyed that part of it. It means a lot to get people what they want and /or need to make their jobs a little bit better.
        Current job – I can’t even get a box of the proper size elastics I want because we already have elastics. But they are the wrong size. But we have elastics. It’s a circular argument. I also had to go out and buy my own printing calculator a month into the job. I was later reimbursed (why would you go out and buy one? I had asked by the way) but I guess was expected to just use the broken one (my job involves calculator use all day.) I figured I’d rather pay for my own than deal with this. These were early red flags! The place is crazy dysfunctional.
        Congrats on working at a good company! I love pens and bring my own from home because we only get the basic Bic pens. I used to drool over the Quill catalog! I love office supplies.

    3. Bowserkitty*

      I was in charge of ordering office supplies at OldJob and one day I noticed the glorious red stapler was on sale to the same price as a normal black stapler. I scooped that up immediately and it became the centerpiece of our department.

      I like this idea though, so I might ask my coworker to order some things for me if it helps brighten my area up!

    4. Chaordic One*

      If you are going to actually use these items I don’t see any problem with ordering them. At the cheap nonprofit where I used to work, we were severely limited in what we could order. I ended up paying for a lot of things myself, because they were not available from the only approved vendor we were allowed to purchase supplies from.

      I put my name on some of the more expensive things I bought for my own use and when I left, I took them with me. I’m especially glad I took the heavy-duty stapler.

    6. Elizabeth West*

      I sort of miss office supplies. I love them but everything we do at work is digital, so I don’t need paper, barely use my stapler if ever, take months to use up sticky notes, etc. The only thing I do go through is batteries for my headphones.
      And yes, I use the batteries at work because I only use those headphones at work.

  147. Christine*

    Has there been an update from the OP regarding the “boss requiring staff to be tested for liver donations?” My thought is that the OP should print out any e-mails, copy of flyers posted, etc., and send it to the local newspaper and news outlets AFTER making sure there is nothing on it that would give out their identity. If the business is a member of the local Chamber of Commerce or is state and/or federally regulated there might be another recourse for the employees. If a member of the Chamber of Commerce, they can them a copy also.

    1. Leatherwings*

      You asked this last week too right? No update has happened since then. Alison does typically link back to the update in the original post, so that might be the best place to keep an eye on it if you can’t search through a week’s worth of posts.

  148. Amber Rose*

    I keep failing at this stupid assignment to update our price lists. It started out simple: change prices in Excel.

    Then,”isn’t there a faster way to do this?”
    Google macros and kludge something.
    “No, the sales guys can’t use this/won’t understand it.”
    Cell references then, change one cell and all the others will change.
    “But I don’t want them being able to change that cell. Can you protect it?”
    Protect sheets so I can protect cell.
    “The password is annoying and now we can’t change/hide stuff. We’ll have to go back to changing it manually I guess.”
    OK.
    “Hey, can you dynamically link an image in Excel so when they click a part name, an image of it pops up?”
    … No.
    “Really? Should be easy shouldn’t it?”

    I’m not a programmer, macros confuse me and Excel is not an almighty, Swiss army knife kind of program. It’s not even good at what it was designed to do. My technology-inept boss wants me to work miracles and then complains that my solutions are confusing or broken. They would be, I just googled crap and have no idea what I’m doing!

    Worse, I’m the only one with Excel (I won that war finally). The company uses Open Office. Complex shit breaks between them.

    Ugh.

    In other news, I am going to a certification course. I have to pass an exam with 80%. Terrifying. D:

    1. AMT 2*

      If you protect the sheet you only need to enter a password to unprotect it to make a change to protected cells. So if you make the entire worksheet unprotected except for the single reference cell they should still be able to make other changes. If that wont work what about placing your reference cell somewhere they wont find it (like way off in a column well beyond the data they are looking at, or on another worksheet tab even)?

      1. Amber Rose*

        Nope, can’t. I tried that. If you protect one cell, you’re not allowed to change columns. I can’t move the values to another tab because that breaks it, and I can’t hide them because my boss complains he can’t find them.

        1. Colette*

          If the values are in names ranges in another tab, you can easily reference them from the first tab. I do t k ow if that would survive the transition to open office, though.

          To create a named range, highlight the cell or cells and type a name (no spaces) in the box where rows meet columns. Hit enter.

          1. Amber Rose*

            I can’t do other page references because the sales guys copy and paste into new sheets every time so it breaks.

    2. LQ*

      What about setting up something with google forms? I use forms (infopath/sharepoint but similar principle) often when I just need to display a bit of information to a specific group.

      Also expecting you to work with Excel and make something work there and then have everyone else use open office is just………………………………………………………….(I ran out of ellipses too much NOPE).

      1. Amber Rose*

        I’d have to completely re-create the lists and then nobody would use them because change = bad. :/

        1. LQ*

          Well the back end of a google form is a google sheet which can be imported from Excel (though ymmv on the fancy tricks it imports).

          If your boss isn’t backing up the Use The New Thing then why is your boss making you do The New Thing? Implementation strategy? Can you say you need to user test before you implement to see if that gets your boss to cut down on the flying around with panic solutions (which it may not be but sort of sounds like This Happened! Fix it!).

    3. AMT2*

      ack, different computer and it didn’t take my comment! at about making the file read-only? I don’t know how to do this, but we have several files at my office that everyone needs access to but don’t want anyone making changes. So one person has the password; when you open the file a password box pops up but if you click cancel it still opens the file but in a read-only version. So you can hide columns, make changes, etc but the changes wont be saved when you close it.

    4. Observer*

      I don’t have a lot of good ideas. But, if everyone else is using open office, then insisting on using excel for stuff that needs to work in OO is self defeating. Stop doing that. It’s not like OO is the source of your problems – it’s that you are being asked to do things with a tool that’s not really designed for it.

      What you REALLY need is a decent database.

      I’m not going to suggest solutions to the problem you are presenting, because there are so many questions I would need answered.

  149. Lemon Zinger*

    My work partner is leaving in two weeks. She informed me today. Though the hiring process for her replacement will begin immediately, we’ll be short-staffed for a significant chunk of time. With our frequent after-hours events, I asked in last week’s thread if it would make sense to ask for flex time, so that I can be limited to 40-hour work weeks. Now I would look like an insensitive idiot if I made that request.

    Any tips on coping with a departing coworker at LITERALLY the busiest time of the year? I’d also appreciate advice for how to manage a 50-60 hour work week. I’m not used to this. :(

    1. em2mb*

      This happened to me right before I left my last job. My teammate and I were both looking to leave; he got out first. It was during the busiest part of our year.

      Work-wise, I started by making a list of what absolutely had to be done, and what could wait until things settled down. I took it to my boss (a large part of the reason why my partner left and why I wanted to leave) and told her what I thought was manageable. We went back and forth and actually ended up with an OK compromise, given the circumstances.

      Personally, I scheduled time for myself on the same day each week. Tuesdays were the day I was least likely to have to cover anything after hours, so that’s the day I picked. I’d book a massage, or a pedicure, or plan to meet up with a friend for a glass of wine. And then I wouldn’t budge. I would tell my boss I was willing to work every night that week (and often did), but that one night was mine and mine alone.

      Finally, if you’re going to be working that much (and aren’t used to it), you need to think about when/what you’re going to be eating. You need healthy meals that will sustain you, whether it’s making them all in advance or going with a meal service you trust. Also, sleep. The closer you can get to 8 hours a night, the easier it will be to put in 10-12 hour days. It’s super tempting when you’re working that much to cut back on sleep and exercise, but those self-care things are critical.

      (Of course, so much of this is dependent on your family obligations, too.)

      1. Lemon Zinger*

        Thank you so much! This is all great advice. I have no family obligations, fortunately– it’s just me and my boyfriend. But I forgot to mention that I’m starting graduate school this fall, so I will already be unavailable one day per week. My boss was NOT happy about that, but she couldn’t outright forbid me from starting grad school, so I went ahead with it.

    2. LQ*

      If you have an idea of when this block of time will be over (either when the person is hired/trained or when your busy season quiets down) I highly highly recommend booking a vacation for then, now. Doing it will give you something to look forward to which is hugely helpful, and will help you reset back to a more normal pace when you return from the vacation.

      (I’m not entirely opposed to having that conversation now as long as it is couched in “I know we need all hands on deck for X until the new person is in and trained and busy season is over, but when we are back to a normal I’d like to do flex time.” Other people may disagree strongly about that though. I imagine my boss would be glad to have me say that so he’d know I wouldn’t burn out at the end of it. Especially if I was seeming close to it anyway. But not all bosses would.)

      1. Lemon Zinger*

        Thanks for your suggestion! Unfortunately we will be busy for the entire fall, so I’m just looking forward to taking as much time off around Christmas as possible. :)

        I will see how my boss handles the transition, and definitely ask about flex time once we have a new hire. Thanks again!

  150. the cake is a pie*

    I have a very sparse LinkedIn but I’m finding that the nature of my job means that many people look at my profile, whether because I’m reaching out to them with a pitch or people are reaching out to me with ideas. I’d like to fill it in better with a full description of my job and duties as well as update my picture. However, I’m connected to most of the people in my department as well as my managers and I worry they will think this sudden flurry means I’m job hunting. Should I go ahead and just update it all and just let everyone think what they’re going to think. Or should I slowly update pieces over time so it’s not so obvious? To be clear, I’m not job searching at this point.

    1. Amber Rose*

      I think you can do updates without it notifying everyone, in which case I’d just go ahead and do updates. Your managers probably aren’t monitoring it.

    2. AL*

      I would just go ahead and update it, since it’s really normal to have a complete profile, even if not searching. But, do turn off the updates to your network when you make profile changes. It’s a little slider button on the right hand side of your profile.

    3. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Unless they are seeking out your profile and regularly looking at it, as long as you’ve slid the “notify contact about profile changes” button to “NO”, they probably won’t notice and you can update to your heart’s content.

  151. PeopleAreWeirdSometimes*

    One of the other managers, who is my peer, tells me often, like almost every other time we talk, that they really do not want to manage, they want to be in the back office doing tasks, they wish they could just get a part-time job doing some of the tasks needed etc. They recently lost a few people who left and these people are being replaced with assistant managers and the manager told me they are so glad because now they will not have to do as much. I am so baffled by them telling me this, and I find I am losing respect for them. I sometimes wonder if I should tell our boss. I don’t get it. This does not seem to be a case of “I’m having a bad day today and need to vent”.

    1. Joanna*

      Perhaps you need to redirect them to someone more senior. Eg. “You’ve been talking about this a lot lately so it seems like it’s really bothering you. Perhaps you need to have a discussion with your manager about whether it’s possible to rearrange your duties in a way that’s more in line with your skills and interests”

  152. AL*

    Has anyone here worked for a political campaign? I was recently laid off, so I thought heck, I’ll see if I can support my candidate! I applied for an organizer job, and have a phone call scheduled for next week to talk about the job with a coordinator.

    Would love to hear any experiences if anyone has any – the good, the bad, and the ugly. They do make it clear there will be long hours.

    1. SL #2*

      Ooooh. Campaigns are tough. Long, long days and nights, and as an organizer, you constantly have to be “on,” especially in an election season. There’s a certain level of passion for the cause or the candidate that political organizing demands, and it’s definitely not for the quiet and shy.

      That’s not to say you shouldn’t do it! I know people who are natural-born organizers, who’ve gone on to be the best of their campaigns, and are doing incredibly well for themselves now. You might discover that you absolutely love it. But keep in mind that being an organizer is often a thankless task, it’s really, really hard, and it’s okay if you’re not good at it. A lot of people aren’t.

    2. zora.dee*

      I did it in 2008. I wrote a bit about it last week on the open thread as well ;o) I’ll post the link in a reply to this comment.

      It is super hard to work those hours, so be ready for that. Like, really long. 7 days a week, no breaks from now until November. I had to ask for 1/2 a day off to go to a funeral for a very sudden death, and even that was a major exception for them to give. Depending on the job/campaign there could be a lot of travel as well. So, only do this if you think you can hang for a few months with total sleep-deprivation. I’m a little surprised that I made it, honestly, but it’s crazy how you click into adrenalin mode after a few weeks.

      This is definitely a good time to get in, though. I started in July and just barely made it to Election Day without collapsing. A lot of people had started in the spring, and I don’t think I could have done it for that long.

      It is super exciting and fun. I was a field organizer and I just loved working with voters and volunteers, there were so many amazing people, it restored my faith in humanity. But I also genuinely loved and believed in my candidate, and he has proven me right for believing in him for many years now ;o) I am so glad I did it, it gave me so many great stories. And I’m proud of myself for hanging in there and making it through something that was so hard. I also made lots of really good friends, because you spend all of your time together in such an intense situation. And I honed lots of skills that have come in handy over the years. I can ask people on the phone for almost anything now, after you make 700 calls a day for 4 months there’s really no such thing as a hard phone call anymore. ;o)

      However, the connections will only be good for career networking if you plan to go into campaigns or into government. 99.9% of the people from my campaign are working for federal or state government, or political organizations or are career campaigners, and I decided I wanted to get out of politics, so I don’t really have any useful work connections from those days anymore.

      Also, pay is less than crappy. Don’t count on a decent salary. On the other hand, you are ALWAYS at work, so you literally have no time to spend money, so I actually had a fair amount of savings at the end of the campaign. Biggest pro-tip: if you do sign on, buy yourself a plane ticket to somewhere awesome on like November 9th. When you are on your 11th hour and 7th cup of coffee and staring at data entry and you want to cry, you can think about how awesome that trip to Ecuador is going to be. (That’s where I went). I know many career campaigners who have a tradition of a group trip to Mexico after every election day, it really helps to have a goal to look forward to.

      That’s probably more info than you want, but TL;DR: if you think you can handle being sleep deprived for 3 months, and you can get by on a lower income for a few months, go for it! It’s a fantastic experience, and you will have stories for the rest of your life. ;o) I’m happy to answer any other questions if you have them, or even talk by email if you want. Good luck!

  153. MsChanandlerBong*

    Waiting to hear if my husband got a promotion is torture! He interviewed Wednesday and thinks it went well. Yesterday, the woman who interviewed him went up to him at lunch and asked if he could submit a list of examples of times he’s had to teach/train someone to do something (he’s currently a one-on-one student aide; the promotion would be a full teaching job). He turned in the list this morning, so now he’s just waiting on a decision. We’ve learned the dangers of idealizing something as a “dream job,” but it would be amazing if he got this promotion. It would be the first time in his life he’s had a job directly related to his degree (he has a BFA in illustration, and the opening is for an art teacher).

  154. MouseCopper*

    How do people successfully complain about someone else’s behavior to their boss/a boss? I’ve never been so annoyed with someone’s behavior that I felt the need to bring it up to their manager but I am completely tired of this person’s rude dismissive behavior.
    A rep from a service we pay for is atrocious. Frequently interrupts, has a rude tone, argues with everyone, even the most senior of leaders, tells people how to do their jobs, and sends really snarky emails. I just got an email that says verbatim “????? …….. OKAY…….fine.” If that were not enough the person is a pot stirrer too! Sent an email to a coworkers boss stating that their issues they brought up weeks ago had not been fixed …. It had literally only been two days! I was able to clear it up for the co-worker, but their boss had already griped at them!
    Should I tell their boss or start with my boss who manages the relationship?

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      Go to your boss, he manages the relationship. I assume he has the power to tell this company that their service should improve or y’all will start looking for another company that can provide the service with out the snark.

    2. fposte*

      I’d start with your own boss. She may have a better idea of just where the politics lie.

  155. Amanda*

    I got a job offer! But it’s not great news. They had a terrible ATS where you have to list your desired salary as well as your previous salaries, yet they still gave me a lowball offer far less than what I make now and about 2/3rds of what I listed for desired salary. They are checking to see how flexible they can be but it doesn’t look good. It’s a shame to spend so much time and end up miles apart on information they had the entire time! Why do companies do this?

    1. em2mb*

      You’re not relocating, are you? I know out-of-town candidates for jobs at my office in the Midwest are always surprised by how much you can buy out here. COL differences are no joke.

      That said, if you’re not willing to go lower than the desired salary you listed, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to say, “As I mentioned previously, I’m looking to make X, can you come up?”

      1. Amanda*

        Nope, same general area! The other thing is that I worked at this company for a stretch of about 5 years, ending around 5 years ago, and their new offer is even less than they paid me when I left. It’s a different job but I didn’t have any impression about it being a step down or anything.

  156. LizB*

    Has anyone had any experience working with a manager where there’s a language barrier? My manager speaks something like 6 languages, but English is not his primary one. I can understand his accent just fine, but am still getting used to some of his speech patterns and word substitutions. The bigger problem is that I’m not 100% sure he understands me when I’m talking to him. I’ll try to get an idea across, and he’ll make comments that make me think he understood something totally different. This is especially problematic when I’m coming to him with messages or concerns that he has to relay to third parties. His written communication also isn’t great; sometimes he’ll send emails or in-office IMs that I have a really hard time making any sense of. I feel like we’re talking past each other on a lot of occasions, but I don’t want to be disrespectful by bringing up the language issue. Any thoughts?

    1. Megs*

      If you’re seeing him actually miscommunication things (like stuff going to a third party) you could ask if there’s a better way for you to communicate things to him. Email might be better than verbal for that kind of thing. Otherwise, unless you’re seeing other specific problems, it’s kind of his responsibility to make sure he’s understanding you completely. Address specific issues, but I don’t think bringing up the language thing generally is going tobe very helpful.

      1. LizB*

        That’s what I’ve been trying to do (address specific issues when I spot them), so I’ll just keep going with that. I try to send things in email and make sure I’m being very clear. It’s tricky, because we’re in a position right now where he’s the go-between in a lot of conversations between my team and a community partner, and we’re trying to push back on unreasonable demands that the community partner is making, and I’m not always sure he understands what we want or is passing on our requests accurately. I think I’m more stressed out by the community partner continuing to walk all over us than by anything else, and that might be due to any number of things, not just language. I’ll just keep dealing with problems as I notice them.

    2. Glot*

      How long have you worked with him? There is an adjustment period, although the people I worked with were bilingual and used English a lot.

      1. LizB*

        About a month, at this point. Maybe I just need more time to get used to it. I’ll hang in there!

        1. Glot*

          How about you try that thing Alison often suggests about following up meetings or verbal conversations with an email summarizing? This could be helpful in that you can reiterate/clarify without ruffling feathers. Also….this is true for me, may be totally different for your boss….I read MUCH better than I comprehend the spoken version of my foreign languages, so maybe boss will read your email and think to himself, with no public embarrassment, “oooooh that’s what Liz was saying”.

    3. Observer*

      Don’t bring up the language issue, because it’s not relevant. In fact, it may not even be a language issue.

      The problem you have is a COMMUNICATIONS issue. Bring it up as that, without trying to diagnose it.

  157. Where'sWaldo?*

    I am dealing with something frustrating at work and was hoping some of you might have some thoughts on the situation. I work as an admin assistant at a large university. Students move into the dorms one day this week (and I work in Housing). We have to get here by 7:15 a.m. or we won’t be able to get to the office because of the car line of students moving in. No joke. It’s intense. We had one employee get stuck in the line for two hours last year.

    Here’s the kicker. We can’t clock in until 8 because our boss doesn’t want to pay us overtime. My fellow admin and I will sit in our car for 45 minutes until 8 even though we have to be there at 7:15. I know that is technically not illegal since we’re not “working” for those 45 minutes, but am I right to feel icky about it? Other employees, such as janitorial staff, get lots of overtime as a matter of routine (and make the same base salary as the admins, so I know a salary gap isn’t the reasoning for it). It is just one day a year, so it shouldn’t be that big of a deal to me (or them), but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Thoughts? Would others feel the same, or am I just way overly sensitive? The fact that they don’t want to pay overtime once a year just makes me feel… Yuck.

    1. animaniactoo*

      You don’t have to sit in your car. Transit issues and your arrangements around them are not the university’s fault or responsibility. Their requirement is that you be there on time, and how you manage that is up to you. But – there are things that you can usefully do with that 45 minutes that you can do in the office or sitting in the library or something while you wait until it’s time to clock in. Bring stuff with you that you procrastinate about getting done for yourself and use the time to do that. Or read a book. If the campus has a gym, can you make use of that? Grab breakfast nearby (or on campus)? Etc.

      If it were more than a one day thing, I’d say that would be something to address in terms of your overall working hours and their campus issues, but for one day – hey, that could be construction on the freeway that means you need to leave 45 minutes earlier and then sit in traffic to get through it for a week or two. It’s just something you have to work around.

      1. Where'sWaldo?*

        I can’t go into the office because it is move-in headquarters (craziness is happening and I would be expected to start working – clocked in or not). I can’t leave the parking lot or walk around campus because of the traffic (and campus is enormous – nothing is in walking distance). So, sitting in the car (and yes, I’ll probably read) is the only choice. It’s more or less the fact that it is an event that our office arranges and organizes (and plans a year ahead), and they use our office as the base for the event. So it IS different from traffic on the freeway (at least in my mind) because they are causing situation. It is necessary, but they could be considerate of that… Especially since other staff get overtime for working the same event. Do you see where I’m coming from? No? Just me? Okay… :)

        1. animaniactoo*

          Ah! No! That’s where you take a stand “If you want me to do that, I’ll need to clock in. Do you want me to clock in now?” – because they are required to pay you for the time if you’re working it. Legally. Make the point if you need to.

          Go ahead and play that system. Go into the office, go into whatever quiet(ish) space there is, and just do your thing. If they won’t authorize you to clock in then, and anybody gives you flack about not working not clocked in, just calmly state that it’s a legal thing. Legally, they’re required to pay you if you’re working and they won’t authorize you clocking in early to help.

          1. Where'sWaldo?*

            That’s true. Everyone else working the event is either salaried or volunteer, so they don’t even think about it. I would have to explain it. And I will if I need to! Thanks for the input.

            1. animaniactoo*

              Make sure to shrug regretfully and note that they only reason you’re there early is because you had a choice between waiting around the office for 45 minutes or being two hours late and you didn’t want to get in trouble for being late. ;)

        2. Megs*

          I absolutely see where you’re coming from with the fact that other staff get OT and it’s an internal event. Unfortunately, I think it still comes back around to the fact that they want you there at 8:00, not 7:15, and just because the realities of transportation mean you have to get in earlier than usual doesn’t mean your boss is doing anything wrong enforcing the no OT rule.

          To be clear, it still stinks, but if there’s nothing else about your job that stinks in a similar fashion, it’s probably not worth bringing it up.

          1. Where'sWaldo?*

            Oh, there are lots of things that stink. If everything else was lovely, it probably wouldn’t bother me. I guess it’s the proverbial “straw that broke the camel’s back” sort of issue.

            I still probably won’t bring it up this year because it is too late to do anything (and I try not to a whiney-butt at work), but I might try to bring it up somehow next year. We shall see…

    2. Megs*

      I can see being grumpy about it, but I’m not sure there’s anything to be done about it. I suppose since you’re housing you don’t get the option of taking the day off, eh? It sounds like a freaking headache.

    3. em2mb*

      I used to work at a university (well, I still do, but my office at my current job is off campus) in a role that had nothing to do with students. I know on move-in day, there were complicated logistics about making sure car lines went one way and employees trying to park on campus to get to work went another. That might be a suggestion to make for future years, but I’m guessing it might be too late for this year.

      That said … park and walk? Take the bus? Point out to your boss having you there an hour early on your single busiest day during the year might be worth the extra however many bucks?

      1. Where'sWaldo?*

        My boss just has the attitude of “oh well” about it. Her boss doesn’t like for us to have overtime, so she refuses to even attempt to ask him. She’s intimidated by him. And we do have to park and walk regardless because we’re not allowed to park in our usual (paid-for) parking lots because it’s too close to the dorms.

        I’ll keep your suggestion about traffic flow in mind. That would help a LOT. Right now, they just have mass chaos. Thanks for the tip!

        1. em2mb*

          If you can get anyone to tackle the traffic issue, one thing that helped at Old Job: attached to the sign that said, “UNIVERSITY EMPLOYEES ONLY,” there was a second sign that informed parents/students that if they got in that line, they would automatically be rerouted to the back of the drop off line.

  158. deqachep*

    A relative posted on FB that she needed money because of some issues with her car. I seem to recall she had also had a financial crisis around a year ago, so I’m assuming that she’s truly living paycheck to paycheck.

    I think another relative helped her out last time, but this time around, it doesn’t look like anyone on FB is willing to help out based on her multiple pleas for help. After her requests went unanswered, she started an, as of yet, unsuccessful gofundme campaign.

    What are options for someone who has a job and is therefore not eligible for any government assistance? Do most people find short-term, part-time work? Is this fairly straight-forward?

    I honestly don’t know if I’m being a jerk for not helping a relative when I could or if a single woman in her thirties with no kids should reasonably be able to come up with a solution to a financial crisis.

    2. Temperance*

      Most people find part-time jobs or make Go Fund Me accounts. Is she bad at budgeting/sticking to her budget?

      I don’t help people out financially, FWIW. My MIL is terrible with money. I feel bad, but her housing expenses (property taxes) are only $2k/year, split with her parents (so $1400 for her) so she’s spending a bunch of money on crap and not being responsible.

    3. LQ*

      If she is not making a lot of money she’s still likely to be eligible for assistance. She needs to reach out to these services though. This can be hard in a lot of ways. Some places it is hard to find the right support, the right contacts, and wait through the red tape. (Some places it is easy, this varies based on your state, city, county.) But you have to reach out to find them. Sometimes it is hard because people believe that it is bad to rely on these services, if you really need them that is why they are there, and using them will help you from needing more of them later. (Going to a regular dr check up to get your shots can help prevent serious diseases later.) Sometimes it is hard because it feels like failure. This is sort of the hardest bridge to cross. (Having a listen, this is what is happening, these are some resources you can use, talk helps, a lot of time the person has to get their on their own.)

      I think that you can do a basic google of what resources are in your count/city/state and point her in the right direction if you feel obliged to help.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        The resources for a single person with no kids are very few and far between. At least in my area, it’s not enough to be of much help. Plus they make you feel like a criminal for even asking about them.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          They do make you feel like a criminal, just about anything else would be easier.
          And no, a single woman in her 30s might not be able to solve her financial problems. Heck a single guy in his 60s might not be able to solve his financial problems. This is the world we have.

          No it is not easy to just pick up a second job and there are many reasons for that. In this instance here, if her car is not running at all then she cannot get to her regular job, never mind take on a second job with no transportation. So if she needs a job to pay for the repairs but she cannot get to her job, she’s got a real problem going on.

    4. em2mb*

      I don’t loan money. I will, occasionally, gift it to someone who I feel is generally responsible and has fallen on hard times. Would you feel differently about helping her if she hadn’t posted a plea on Facebook and instead had called you up and asked for help directly? Because that would be part of my reluctance.

      If she’s having frequently financial crises, she’s probably 1) not making much to begin with or 2) living outside her means. Those are hard problems to solve but ultimately not your responsibility. If she reaches out to you directly and you can help point her toward resources to improve her resume or find better paying work, then I think that’s something kind you can do. Or pass along any opportunities you see to make a little extra cash. But if she’s not a close relative and hasn’t approached you directly, I don’t think you need to take this on.

    5. Xarcady*

      The thing is, without the car, she might not be able to get to work, thereby making her financial situation worse. So I can see why she needs the money. I hesitate to judge her–does she have medical expenses, student loans, etc.?

      If she needs money fast, selling something is probably the best way. Jewelry, if she has any silver or gold, or even good costume jewelry. Clothing at a consignment store. Anything on Craigslist.

      A part-time job is a good idea, but it would take a week or two to get hired, then work a week, then wait another week to get paid. So she would probably be looking at a month or more before seeing any money that way.

      Or she could babysitting, petsitting, that sort of thing, where she would get paid right away.

      There is more money around to help with things like rent or food than there is for car repairs. So she could try food banks to get free food, and put the money she would have spent on food towards the car repairs. My city has a fund that will pay one month’s rent or mortgage in an emergency. She could see if her town has something like that, which would free up more money for the car. And if she is a member of a church, there might be some money available there for emergencies.

    6. Manders*

      Does she live in an area where she can use public transit or a bike to get to work? If it’s one of those places where she can’t leave home without a car, a second job’s not going to be much use since she can’t reliably get to it.

      I don’t think you’re being a jerk for not automatically volunteering to come up with a bunch of cash. Every family has different norms, and every person had different limits on what they can give.

    7. Observer*

      Having a job does NOT mean not eligible for any government assistance. Rental assistance, SNAP (aka food stamps) Medicaid / insurance subsidies are all available to people who work, depending on income and expenses.

      There may also be emergency assistance types of programs available either from government or private organizations.

      If there is a 311 or 211 in your area call them, as they should be able to give you numbers for resources. Some are government only, others list government funded non-profits as well.

      Also, in some areas, there are on-line basic screening tools. It’s worth looking at, to get a sense of eligibility.

      I’ll put the links for the ones in NY in my reply.

  159. Anxa*

    I’m in the US. From my perspective, having a job helps, not hurts, in getting government assistance. In some states, you must have a job (or do job training) to receive SNAP. In about half of the states you have to have a minimum income to be eligible for health insurance subsidies.

    If she’s working but makes a low income, there be be relief for some services so she could reallocate that money to her car. If public transportation is available for her job, there may be at least a tax break there or it may be affordable (this varies wildly. I can get to work and back for $2. If I get a full time job at one company I’m applying to, I’ll need to finance a car and am ironically better off in the short term with my current job. In the past I’ve paid $15 a day to get to work or more on public transit).

    If her expenses are super high (private student loans, medical issues, a sick pet) there may be options for relief.

    Otherwise, it’s sounds like she’s either foolish with her money or right on the borderline of making too much for assistance but not enough to save money for emergencies.

  160. Horrified*

    I have a very talented employee – technical skills and customer skills are exceptional. However, everyone has to walk on eggshells around him. He is very resistant to being asked to do anything outside of the “norm” such as “would you mind taking your lunch break 15 minutes later so that we accomodate an out-of-town client who has to catch an earlier flight?”. He’ll do it grudginly, but he’ll also make a point of badgering his coworkers that they shouldn’t be so flexible. If you give the employer an inch, they’ll take a mile type of thing. Now, this person is paid exceptionally well – more than his coworkers based on seniority and talent, and much more than if he did the same job in the public sector. He’s one of those guys who isn’t happy unless he’s unhappy if you know what I mean.

    As part of a security audit, I’ve noted that for the past four weeks – while he has been on vacation – he’s logged into our company scheduler several times each day. I know it isn’t because he misses work, its because he keeps score of how much work everyone is doing. If someone in his position happened to have a lighter workload while he was away, I’ll hear about how its unfair that he has to work more than the others. Of course, he never mentions anything if the coworkers have a heavier load.

    I’m really alarmed at his obsessiveness and will meet with him about it when he is back from vacation. We’ve spoken about this before and his habit of micromanaging co-workers (whom he is not managing by the way…), and I’ve written him up for it. I don’t want to have to escalate this to the point of having to let him go because he is such a talent. What I want is for him to stop being so obsessive and to stop making everyone feel they have to tiptoe around him. Any suggestions?

    1. fposte*

      Is he worth losing other staff over? He sounds like a nightmare to work alongside.

      While you may be right about why he was logging on vacation, I don’t see that as a useful point for reproof–if the information is available on the scheduler, he’s allowed to see it, and it’s at high risk of sidetracking the main point. I think the badgering of coworkers needs a concrete-hard shutdown, however, and it would be possible in the discussion about “eyes on your own work” to note that you were genuinely concerned with how unable he was to let go on vacation of an issue that wasn’t even his in the first place. But it needs to be made clear that part of his paycheck involves being civil with co-workers and not badgering them, and he needs to do better at earning that part. And maybe other people’s salaries need to be bumped to be in line with the asshole–it’s got to be debilitating to know somebody this selfish and obnoxious is getting rewarded financially despite failing in in this significant work expectation.

      Or you can decide he’s worth the turnover and morale problems elsewhere. He’s somebody who’s used to having his way, so he may feel it’s not worth the job to try to change, and you may have to decide whether or not you take him as he is.

    2. Leatherwings*

      You’re his manager right? Just making sure I didn’t read that wrong. If you aren’t, go to his manager and discuss your concerns. If you manage him, though you need to nip this in the bud. Since you’ve already had this discussion about micromanaging coworkers, use that as a jumping off point. You need to enforce this boundary you’ve set.
      You could try something like this:
      “Joe we’ve previously discussed micromanaging your coworkers and your overall attitude about flexibility at work. I noticed while you were on vacation you checked in to the calendar several times a day. What was that about?”
      And give him a chance to explain and really listen. If something doesn’t ring true like “I just missed work” you can push back and tell him that.

      But ultimately you have to decide what consequences are appropriate here, set them and fully enforce them. This guy sounds like a pain to work with and he needs an attitude fix. If he doesn’t get it, you may not have any choice but to let him go.

    3. Joanna*

      He may be quite a talent, but it seems likely that the lost productivity and morale from the rest of your staff may more than offset any benefits he brings. If his obsessiveness has reached the bizarre level of tracking other people’s schedules in detail while he’s away, there’s no way this isn’t noticed by other staff.

      1. catsAreCool*

        Are you sure this guy is worth keeping? He sounds like he might be more trouble than he’s worth.

    4. Graciosa*

      I wish I could remember where to find this study, but when you fire people in this category (who appear to be highly skilled in some area but are special snowflakes who make the rest of the staff unhappy) overall performance of the team goes UP (I think it was around 20%!) even without replacing the person who fired.

      This person is depressing the performance of the entire team. If he can’t manage to fix his behavior, he needs to go.

      An ability to work pleasantly with others and contribute to a positive office environment should not be optional for anyone on the team.

    5. Observer*

      I don’t want to have to escalate this to the point of having to let him go because he is such a talent. What I want is for him to stop being so obsessive and to stop making everyone feel they have to tiptoe around him. Any suggestions?

      This is mutually exclusive. If you are not willing to let him go, you won’t be able to get him to change. I’m not saying that you will definitely have to let him go. But, as long as you are unwilling to let him go, he knows that he can get away with anything, and he also knows that he is so valuable to you that none of the rest of it matters. Why should he change under those circumstances.

      So, the real question you need to answer is what @fposte said. Is he so valuable that he makes up for the real possibility of losing staff, and the DEFINTE reality that you are losing general staff productivity?

      By the way, how could he be so great in customer skills if he thinks that the rest of the staff shouldn’t be “so flexible” in the face of a customer’s reasonable request over a significant issue?

    6. Not So NewReader*

      My first boss said to me, “Part of what we are being compensated for is our willingness to get along with other people.” Getting along with others is a basic job skill, no different than showing up on time and being responsible for deadlines. In my books, if a person cannot get along with others, then the person needs to go. Yes, I would give them opportunities to permanently fix the problem, but failure to do so means “good-bye”.

      Ironically, when you let go of a person like this, you may find that you did not need his talent as much as you thought. That is because when moral tanks, talent and creativity also step out the door. And this guy is killing moral in your place. (Another talking point, he is interfering with productivity levels and harming the business itself.) Often times when we think we have to hang on to someone or something it is just an illusion, not reality.

  161. Xarcady*

    Has the annual United Way campaign struck yet? It’s just started at my part-time retail job. I gather the pressure on the managers to get everyone to contribute is pretty high.

    I did get a chuckle, though, at the recommended amount that I donate. As a part-timer who gets 12-20 hours a week, it was suggested that I consider donating 12 cents a week. At least that is more or less in line with what they pay me.

    1. snowball*

      I have no experience with workplace United Way campaigns (thankfully!) but maybe you could offer to save them the payroll processing time and pay your $6 contribution in one lump sum? :)

  162. LA Gaucho*

    Should I include my master’s degree on my business card even though the degree isn’t “relevant” to my new position? I’ve worked for the same company for 5 years and my degree was needed for my previous position but now I’ve changed roles completely.

    For example lets say I used to work in marketing and had my MBA on my card, but now I work as an IS specialist in our tech department.

    Ultimately it doesn’t really matter, but I still got the degree. WWYD?

    1. Leatherwings*

      In my experience it’s very unusual for someone to list degrees (unless it’s a JD, or medical degree) on business cards. Even my colleagues who have PhDs don’t do it.

      Since its not relevant to the position, I would say don’t do it. There’s a perception that people who list out degrees on business cards, name plates, email signatures etc. are full of it, whether that’s fair or not.

      1. LA Gaucho*

        Thanks! I was leaning towards no, but I wanted to make sure.

        I agree, I was thinking it would be a little pompous, haha.

      2. SL #2*

        Really? Everyone on our staff lists their master’s degrees (usually an MPH or an MHA, in my field), and I’ve noticed it with a lot of our clients too. It feels like a sector-specific thing, though.

        1. LA Gaucho*

          We are in the same field :) and yup, you’re right! It would have been a little odd not to list my MPH…lots of Jane Smith RN, BSN, MSN, PHN in my office too.

          No one in my new department has a MPH, but those with master’s degrees all leave them off their cards so I’m just gonna go with the flow.

        2. vpc*

          Yeah, we have a lot of MD and PhD folks — but all the MPH list them on the business card too (possibly influenced by many people being MD/MPH?) and we even put other licensures/credentials that are common in our field on our business cards and email signatures.

          Hm. In part this could be the influence of the older generation of MD / PhD, where advanced degrees were relatively rare and were an extremely strong credential; us younger folks, for whom advanced degrees are relatively common at our workplace, followed their examples. And people without a master’s degree, though relatively rare, will list BS or BA on their cards.

          Or it could be the influence of our strong ties to academia and research.

  163. E*

    Trying to get more organized. I tend to have a lot of miscellaneous duties, non-recurring, that I need to track. I use Outlook flags and reminders but oftentimes the tasks come in fast and furious and not via email. Anyone use a good printable list format? I’d love to be able to use a planner in addition to Outlook, something about seeing the list in print helps me work through it better.

    1. Lord Vetinari Is My Spirit Animal*

      If I have a pile of things I have to do, in no particular order but just power through them, I’ve found nowdothis.com to be helpful. It gives you one task from your list – when you’re done, you click “next” and you get the next item (bonus is the nice empty non-distracting background). It’s easy to add things to the list as they come in.

      For printables, you might find vertex42.com of use – he does spreadsheet for the most part but does have a large section of Word templates as well. I’m actually using one of his Excel-based task lists as a master project list right now.

      Or try http://davidseah.com/node/the-emergent-task-planner/

      1. Mander*

        I used to love the emergent task planner when I was working on my PhD! Filling in the little bubbles was kind of fun.

  164. Ryan Porter*

    I applied to a job at a local university back in March. The application needed to be done through an online job portal (one that’s clunky and severely out of date…2006 copyright). I applied to a second job at the university in June through the same portal. Under “status,” both applications are currently listed as “under review.” Again the first one was submitted back in March. Five months under review?

    Is the job actually filled? Should I follow up with the HR dept.?

    There are often jobs at this university that I think I’d be a good fit for, but I don’t see the point really. Applying through this clunky portal is very time consuming, and my applications seem to go in a black hole.

    Any thoughts?

    1. Leatherwings*

      This is depressingly common. There are a bunch of things that could be going on here, they could just not be updating the portal once they review your resume and decide to pass, they could’ve filled the position and not told you, they could be waiting to review candidates for some internal reason but not updating candidates.

      Honestly, five months later I wouldn’t ask for an update. Assume that either they hired someone or decided not to fill the role right now and move on mentally. Continuing to check the portal that they clearly don’t keep super up to date on is just going to make you crazy.

      1. Ryan Porter*

        Oh, I haven’t been obsessive at all about it. I just checked for the first time in 6 weeks or so. But is it worth applying for more jobs there considering that my applications seem to go immediately to limbo?

  165. CL*

    How do I make peace and continue to interact with a higher-level manager (my manager’s boss) when that manager has continuously meddled in our work?

    For example, I was working on a project that seemed like a typical run-of-the-mill thing, and it’s now ballooned into a design-by-committee thing requiring input from top level management due to meddling. We had previously reached a good compromise on the outputs, but then I was blindsided when this manager decided to escalate it behind my back.

    I’m still relatively young to the workforce, so I’m not sure how to properly conduct myself around this person. What I do know is that I don’t trust them because this has happened to other team members before. Should I take the high road and pretend the situation didn’t faze me?

    1. Colette*

      Your managers boss can’t really meddle in your work, so you might want to look at how you’re viewing the situation. Ultimately, she’s responsible for what you do, so if she wants it done a different way – or if she wants to involve more groups so that she has by-in – that’s absolutely something you can do.

      Accept that your priorities, tasks, and reporting structure can change with more notice, and remain polite and professional.

      2. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd*

        Yeah, the wording in the post is confusing me. Your boss’s boss is responsible for your group’s work product, so her involvement can’t be meddling, even though it can be annoying or unproductive.

        Just last month I delegated a project to one of my reports who delegated the project to her reports. The project went off the rails, badly, to the point where I stepped in and required daily progress reports and my sign off on any creative. And I sent some creative back 5x until it got to the level that I wanted.

        I’m sure I annoyed the shit out of the people who were working on it but my job makes me responsible for their product. We did a post mortem where I said “I don’t want to ever have to manage a project, out of this group, this closely again. Let’s talk about how this went wrong and how we won’t ever have to do this again.”

        Part of the issue found in the post mortem was that a couple of the team members had decided to change the project scope, on their own, because it “made more sense” to them to do it a short cut way, even though there had been explicit written instructions to do it the long way. I don’t mind explaining my reasoning but since nobody ever asked, or even told their boss (who was blindsided from below and above during the debacle) that they’d made up their own way to do it, it was all pretty upsetting for everyone when the crap hit the fan.

        IDK if your boss’s boss is ultimately overinvolved in a non productive way or dead straight on correct that this needs her attention, but if it is in her line of management, she’s not meddling. Your project belongs to her.

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      Take the high road. Always take the high road. Even when you know it would feel good to jump in and start slinging mud. Just know this person has shown you who they are. File it away and move on.

  166. Master Bean Counter*

    Grrrr.
    I hate office politics. I especially hate them when I’m being put in the middle with only half of the information I need, but getting the full passive aggressive treatment from both sides.

  167. Anon For Now*

    Mini-vent:

    My SO finished his PhD and he’s been in a strange holding pattern of working a little bit for his school after he finished his dissertation and stopped being paid as a student, but waiting to be approved as a temp. In the meantime he’s stuck figuring out how much work he should be doing as a volunteer and what he should save until being paid.

    He was ‘hired’ weeks ago, but getting the paperwork approved has been an endless saga. I know that there was a lot of good reasons to take this job and not start another.

    But at this point his start date has been moved a month back in what already could have been been a short job. First there was posted the job publicly (fair enough). Then there was new layer upon new layer of forms to sign that the administrative support team in his department hadn’t been made aware of. Then there’s the fact that he has to attend an orientation before starting. But the background check hasn’t been approved (meanwhile, he’s worked and been a student there for 7 years). Everyone seems so incredibly blase about this, but the financial distress on our end is huge. Plus, now he won’t be able to commit to coming to see my family (who had gotten him a graduation gift and were excited to see him) and his family had rearranged an event for no reason.

    I just get so frustrated because of all the hurry up and see. I know it’s academic and higher ed, but the lack of hustle is just astounding sometimes.

    I still don’t like the idea of taking a part-time job when theres a very good chance he’ll have to quit it immediately. It contributes to the stigma against recent grads and people with degrees, is unfair to the shafted employer, and means having to enter a short term job on some applications for years to come over maybe a few hundred dollars.

    We can’t afford to invest in a lawn mower, bonding and insurance, a new car for Uber, etc. Here’s hoping we come up with a good ‘side hustle.’

    1. Mander*

      Ugh. This is one reason why I left academia. Everything is so glacial. They don’t seem to understand that we are not independently wealthy.

      1. Anon for Now*

        The worst wasn’t the expectation that you were independently wealthy, but that your spouse or SO made a good amount of money and would support you through school, all while creating an environment that discouraged a work life balance to help manage those relationships. And of course your SO has to have an extremely portable career that is resilient to all the moving, because eventually your career must come before theirs even though you’ll never make enough to be a one income family.

        Ugh, I’m just so tired of people who get regular pay checks not giving a shit about other people getting paid. One of our friends didn’t get paid for 7 weeks. 7 weeks! Ugh.

        1. JaneB*

          I can beat that. We’re about to lose an excellent technical person because they didn’t get paid two months of pay they were owed for summer work for SEVEN MONTHS. I’ve offered to be a reference, because their official boss is HORRIFIED by their LACK OF LOYALTY in job hunting…

          1. Anon For Now*

            And there’s such a good chance they could have overlooked the one late payment situation, but it’s so indicative of an overall difficult to system to work under.

    2. blackcat*

      What type of work is he doing, now, without being paid? If it’s research that could turn into a publication, it’s a good idea for him to keep at it.

      BUT if it’s not that sort of work, he should stop until he’s being paid. So no filing paperwork, doing grunt work for others, doing lab maintenance, or whatever else the grunt work is in his field. That’s stuff that needs to be paid, and any decent PI will agree with that.

      Depending on his field and where you’re located, I highly recommend him trying to pick up tutoring work. That work will be easier to get in a few weeks once schools are back in session. There’s a website called University Tutor that’s like a LinkedIn for tutors. I’ve gotten great clients from there. Even if you’re in a low cost of living area, he should be able to make $30+ per hour as a general writing tutor and more if he can do math/science (STEM tutors can charge more. I charge $100+/hr, but I’m also a licensed teacher in a high COL area). I recommend against signing up with tutoring companies, because you only end up taking home like 1/4-1/2 of what the client pays. The only exception is signing up to teach SAT/GRE/MCAT/GMAT classes–those pay enough that it’s worth going through companies like Princeton Review. But those also generally want a longer term commitment, which isn’t in his plan.

      1. Anon for Now*

        I am a science tutor in my area and I make about $12/hr. I don’t see how I could make any more as the students around here usually are already pretty broke. I don’t think I could tutor high school students; I don’t have that experience, I have a terrible GPA, and I have no teaching credentials. I don’t have a strong transcript, so I am pretty much only able to tutor through my employer; I also only have a BS. He’s STEM, but is in a more specialized field. Despite having better grades and an advanced degree, I am can tutor a lot more.

        In the past I was an SAT tutor, but I was laid off and signed a NDA. :-( It expires next year, though.

        He would be a good writing tutor, but is having a hard time with that because he’s doesn’t have an English or related degree. The comm college where I work doesn’t have a demand for the courses that he teaches, and he really isn’t ready to tutor the classes he does have.

        He’s doing a mix of work now. His PI totally supports him getting paid for this work, but his solution seems to be to bank his hours he’s doing now and add them on later. But unfortunately there are overtime laws that will make that a logistical nightmare.

        And everything just got bumped back ANOTHER week because everyone went home early on Friday and the background check didn’t get clear.

        I think if I were him I would sit in the HR office and tell them I could wait until they were done working on everything. Even if it means sitting in a chair from 8 to 5.

        If you don’t mind me asking, how on Earth do you manage to make 100/hr? Are your clientele incredibly weathy? (I live in an economically depressed area and my jaw is just on the floor. Our MD/JD/PhD tutors were capped at 16/hr.

        1. Anon for Now*

          I might push him into SAT tutoring, if we can get his scores up (I don’t think they were in the 95th percentile back in the day). That paid better than my current job per hour (but I have regular guaranteed hours now)

        2. blackcat*

          It does depend on the area–I can tutor wealth kids. I’m also licensed in special ed and I’m a STEM PhD student. At least one family got $$ from their school district for special ed services that the district couldn’t provide (I have NO idea how they wrangled that). More general tutors in my area charge $60/70 per hour. High school kids with good grades can charge $30/hr to tutor younger kids. BUT people who go through companies/agencies only get paid like $20/25 per hour. That’s why I would never work for a company.

          Even in a low COL area, I’m really surprised you only make $12/hr–that’s less than what babysitters in my area make. What are the families paying? It must be the case that if you go directly to clients that you or he can make at least $20/hr.

          He may still be able to tutor writing/help edit college essays for money.

          I do recommend that he not do all of that general work for free. What the PI is proposing is definitely illegal, and the university’s payroll/HR may put a stop to him getting paid for those hours.

          1. Anon for Now*

            I tutor college students through a college. I get paid more tutoring through them than I was getting when I tried to meet people at their houses (10/hr) plus it’s so much easier and I have guaranteed hours (plus transportation is so much easier, I don’t have my own car).

            We’re lucky that we live in a state without strict labor laws around breaks (I don’t have to take a lunch and lose out on pay), but unfortunately overtime laws can still haunt us. We just don’t know how we can make up for all of this lost time. Because he doesn’t have classes or another job, so there’s going to be an extra 20 hours or so a week he could be working, but can’t.

            I think one of the reasons it’s so hard to find students to tutor around here is the market is saturated with unemployed and underemployed biomedical engineers, physics majors, and laid off engineers.

            Baby sitters around here do make more an hour, but they rarely have as many hours unless they nanny. And nannying is way much difficult than tutoring, so I wouldn’t expect to make as much. 12/hr is a pretty high wage to me. I’ve never made more than 15K a year, though.

  168. Chocolate Coffeepot*

    I have a family member who will be having surgery soon. This particular surgery has a 6-8 week recovery period during which Fergus will need a lot of help with basic activities, such as meal prep & cleanup. I’ll be working from home with flexible hours so I can help out. My boss has been incredibly supportive and HR was helpful when I applied for FMLA.

    Usually, when staff members take several weeks’ leave like this, it’s either maternity/paternity leave, or they are recovering from surgery themselves. We are also not allowed to work remotely unless our jobs require travel, which mine does not. I’m mindful that the appearance of special treatment can cause resentment (I’ve read a lot of letters here about that recently!) and want to avoid it. Also, there is one rumor-monger in my department who will put 2+2 together and come up with 1,015, and I really don’t want to hear what she’ll come up with if her imagination runs wild! So my supervisor made a brief announcement at our last staff meeting, and I filled in a little — basically what is in my first paragraph. (Fergus gave his approval first, of course.)

    Fergus went for his pre-op appointment today, and they discovered something that they want to test further before the surgery occurs. So it’s been postponed for at least a week (will be rescheduled after the tests). Now I’m wishing I’d been less open, because talking to my supervisor and HR on Monday (let alone everyone else!) is going to be daunting enough. Any suggestions on what to say & how to sat it? Is a mass email overkill?

    1. Joanna*

      I don’t think you have to worry too much. Anyone who is had surgery or ever helped someone who has will know that delays for all sorts of reasons are pretty normal.

    2. Colette*

      I think you can casually mention it’s been delayed to coworkers, if the subject comes up. I don’t think you need to make an official announcement. And of course you need to let your manager/HR know officially.

    3. Rebecca*

      My job doesn’t allow work from home either, but I was allowed to work 1 week from my parent’s home and part of the next after my Dad had hip replacement surgery. My coworkers weren’t jealous, because this meant they didn’t have to cover for me. So, my manager realized I could get my work done, just not in the specified 8-5 time frame, without overloading my coworkers.

      I really think once your coworkers realize this will be a benefit to you and them, they’ll be OK.

    4. Chocolate Coffeepot*

      Thanks! Getting your perspectives is really helpful, and I won’t stress about it.

  169. Mirilla*

    Well I was having a particularly bad day at work today and was somewhat teary eyed talking to my coworker. We both are at our wit’s end with the dysfunction and unfairness at our current workplace. We also feel helpless because no matter what we try to do it continues. We both know the real problem is the way the company is run and that’s not going to change. I’m looking. She’s defeated and depressed and unhappy but willing to be basically overworked but has resigned herself to this job thinking she makes too much money.

    Wouldn’t that be the exact moment the boss brings in “company” for us to meet? I wasn’t actually crying but my eyes were watery. How embarrassing but I’m glad that I pulled it off and switched to “friendly happy” mode. Of course we had no idea that foreign visitors would be arriving today (lack of communication is nothing new here) and of course we were both dressed like slobs, it being casual Friday in an extremely low morale office.

    Good times.

  170. Joanna*

    I’m curious about how common my office’s practice of making people share email accounts is. I’ve been at my job for several years and do need to sent/receive emails semi-frequently but I have to share an email account with most of my several dozen person department. If I need to email someone in the department, I essentially have to email myself and drag the email into their folder. It also means if I need to email my manager (who does have their own address) about an issue, the reply is public. Is this normal?

    1. Colette*

      Very much not normal. Do you work in a job with a lot of temp workers? I suspect it would mak sense for all of you to share a group mailbox while also having individual accounts.

      1. Joanna*

        Some people are temps, but most often longer term ones (ie. a few drop out after a couple of months, but many last multiple years)

    2. Natalie*

      No, I don’t think that’s remotely common. People often share a general delivery account (hr@, accounting@), but they still generally have their own address as well.

    3. Chaordic One*

      What you describe is weird.

      I have worked in situations where, in addition to having a personal email account, there were certain group email accounts that everyone in a given department might have access to. For example, when I worked in HR, there was a special account just for short-term contractors from which contract offers were sent and then the contractor would either accept or refuse the contract and hit “return”. Or they would hit “return” and ask a whole bunch of questions.

    4. SophieChotek*

      Yes, it is weird. (That said company I work for does something equally weird, so you are not totally alone.)

    5. Chocolate Coffeepot*

      No, that sounds odd. Like Natalie’s company, some departments share an account (Accounts Payable, Help desk) so that certain questions/tasks are always answered no matter who is out on a given day, but everyone has an individual acct too.

      Although, thre have been a few heated exchanges that maybe would not have happened if there ws no email privacy!

  171. Gina the Conqueror*

    Things started looking up this week! Last time I posted, it was about how frustrated I was with my job search and current job and how sorry I felt for myself.

    Even though some bad things have happened since then (a virus destroyed most of my files, I got really sick, my favorite person moved across the country, banged up my car, a project didn’t turn out as I hoped, etc.) some GREAT things have happened!

    I decided to put my job search on hold, and the next day one of my coworkers told me how she is leaving and basically offered to take me with her (though nothing is official and won’t be for months). And THEN I got approval to go to a conference next month on the east coast–and I managed to talk myself into a new title and possibly into some better job duties (I am basically crafting my dream position). Some restructuring is about to happen at my organization, so even if that potential position doesn’t come through, things are looking so good right now I might stick around for the long haul!

    1. SophieChotek*

      Gina – sounds like you’ve had a very full and mixed week (virus, car) but congrats and here’s hoping that the interesting things are only pointing towards a new, better professional path for you. Congrats on new job title/better duties — and East Coast Conference (time to do some sight-seeing/tourist too maybe?)

  172. Gareth Keenan Investigates*

    I’ve been invited to a second interview for a job I’m very interested in. I wasn’t actively seeking work but was contacted by an org that knows I have experience in a field that’s rather limited in our region. While I’m happy to be considered and very interested in the substantive aspects of this work I’m concerned that the org hasn’t yet mentioned a pay range. I believe this org pays slightly more than the company I’m at but I’m in a field where pay is pretty strictly laid out by step and there’s little room for negotiation. The complicating factor is that I’m receiving a grant from a third party because of the company I work for, that grant offsets the high cost/low pay ratio of working in my field (think high student debt, low compensation). So…is there anyway to account for the loss of this pretty significant grant if I get to a stage of salary negotiations? Again, it’s paid by a third party associated with my company so it’s not considered salary and I would definitely lose it if I took the new job. It’s a pretty significant amount, it accounts for more than 10% of my annual income. Any thoughts?

    1. Colette*

      I assume the grant won’t transfer if you change jobs, and that it’s paid directly to you? If so, I think you can treat it as part of your compensation – I.e. “I’m currently getting a grant I’d lose if I change jobs, so I wouldn’t move for less than $X.

  173. Don't say my name!*

    *sigh*

    I’m getting very nervous and frustrated again about this job. I met with a trainer recently about the Excel stuff, but she could not really do anything because we had nothing from Boss to work with. I still have no idea what these magical forecasting spreadsheets she wants me to do are all about. I can’t suggest an accommodation that might work if I have no idea what I’m supposed to be doing.

    And I don’t understand why I’m being given this to do in the first place and why my data matching and database updating, which I’ve been doing successfully for three years, is being taken away from me and given to a higher-level employee. It’s an administrative task and this person is a manager-level person. He should be doing this other thing if it’s so important it be perfect, instead of them forcing me to struggle with it. And she keeps giving me all this new stuff to do without explaining it–like she’ll give me a new task and I basically have to figure out how to do it. She does answer questions, but I feel like I’m being a pest whenever I ask them, especially if I have to ask more than once because it’s so complicated that I don’t understand.

    I’m terrified I’m going to get laid off because of this and I wish if I had to have a disability that it didn’t have to be this stupid one. Boss has scheduled my performance evaluation and I don’t know how I’m going to stop myself from blurting out, “This job sucks now, I hate it, and I QUIT.” I can’t do that of course. I just got student loans out of default and started consolidation on them and now I’m going to have medical bills from my recent hospitalization. If I can’t find another job at this company, I’m going to take a huge step back financially if I have to go elsewhere. :(

    **gloom**

  174. Rebecca*

    Sorry for the second post, but this just happend :(

    You guys, I am ready to cry. I am so crushed. I just loaded my Comcast email, and there are 3 messages from the recruiter where I applied. 7/26, 7/29, and 8/1, all asking me to contact her to schedule a phone interview. They were not there earlier this week, I checked. I emailed her back, and told her I just discovered the messages, but I bet this is a done deal. I just want to give up and crawl in a hole.

    I called her office number, and left a voice mail explaining that all 3 messages just arrived. I hope I didn’t sound like a loon. OMG I cannot believe this! At least the job is still posted on their website.

    I decided not to cry, but eat cookies instead :(

    1. SophieChotek*

      I am so sorry this happened. I can only commiserate–it’s awful when for some reason technology fails and emails appear later. If you can, I’d let this go and move on–but here’s hoping that maybe there’s still a small chance…they definitely seem interested in you.

    3. Observer*

      This is one of the reasons I moved to gmail many, many years ago. Gmail isn’t perfect (what is?) but it was more reliable than the ISP services, and it looks like that’s still the case.

  175. Brenda*

    The microwave in the break room on my floor is broken, so I went to another floor to use the microwave. I ran into a woman who asked if I was the new so-and-so, I said, no, I was from the floor above and was just using their microwave because ours is broken. This happened 2 days ago. I ran into the same woman in the bathroom who said, “Wow, you must really like our floor” and proceeded to stand there, looking at me, waiting for a response. I said something about wanting a change of scenery and hurried up and got out of there.

    What is the big deal about where I warm up my lean cuisine or use the bathroom? The people are so petty! I work there! We all work together! We’re colleagues for pete’s sake!!

    1. Nicole*

      How is that being petty? It sounds like she was trying to make conversation, albeit a little awkwardly the second time.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Hold it in the best light possible. Not everyone is evil, mean, wicked and nasty, honest.

  176. Elodie*

    I hate my job. Everything is secretive and the guys I work with are all extremely paranoid. The guys were talking about a new database that we’re trying out and I went to throw something away and overheard them. My boss asked me something about it and I said that the guys were talking about it. Now apparently they think I’m some sort of eavesdropper, even though they were talking about WORK and something that I WILL BE DOING as well! So now they whisper around me. The head boss thinks it’s funny and just laughs. Everyone whispers and I feel like I’m being bullied by the whole team. If I had one person who was obnoxious, I’d shrug it off. Instead I have a whole team of people who have started awful rumors and gossip- they even told the new guy who just started and he is looking at me oddly. The only answer is to leave, but I can’t without another job. How would you deal with this? Would you recommend talking to someone to help deal with this stress?

    1. Dee*

      Do you have team meetings? This is the kinda thing that would suit a regular weekly meeting and is non-confrontational in that setting (talking about what everyone is working on and what’s coming up).

  177. Anon Just In Case*

    Bit of a weird question. I’m going to be laid off at the end of September, as part of a large number of layoffs. (as in, several hundred) A job portal has been set up for those of us who are being laid off. I’d like to apply to a few jobs through this, but I’m wondering whether or not I should mention the layoffs in my cover letter.

    For other job applications, I wouldn’t, but given what my most recent place of employment is on my resume (and that I found/am applying for the job through this job portal to begin with), these particular employers are all very likely going to know I was part of these layoffs. So not mentioning seems weird, like I’m trying to hide that fact. But because they probably already know, does it come across as redundant and “poor me” to bring it up?

    And if I should mention it, how the heck do you casually say something like that in a cover letter??

    1. Mander*

      I think other departments will probably know already, but maybe a sentence like “as you know, department X will be experiencing significant layoffs next month, and I found this post through the job portal…”. Only more elegantly phrased.

    2. Colette*

      I wouldn’t mention it. They already know, it doesn’t add anything, and mentioning it could easily sound defensive. But be prepared to say “oh, I was laid off” in an interview.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      No need to mention it in your cover letter. Your cover letter is about why you’d be good at the job you’re applying for — that’s it!

  178. Mander*

    Well, it looks like I’ll be back to hunting for a job again soon. My field tends to be unstable anyway but we are also an early victim of any kind of economic downturn, so we have already been hit by the EU referendum result. I got notice last week that we are at risk of being laid off due to several big projects being canceled or delayed at short notice because of the downturn in construction. I won’t find out officially until next week but I am highly doubtful that I will be kept on, since I am pretty junior in experience and my original contract would have expired in September anyway.

    I applied for a more stable internal post but I completely flubbed the practical exam portion of the interview. They finally sent me some feedback this week and it was exactly as I thought — they liked me in the interview but I royally f’ed up on the written part. I’m feeling very down about the whole thing because I always thought that writing something more or less intelligent under pressure was a skill that I actually did possess, but now I am seriously doubting myself.

    There are a few jobs advertised around but they aren’t near where I live so I would have to do remote working which really sucks, because then I’d be paying for accommodation in three different cities. Also it’s been nice to actually be in the same part of the country as my husband. I really need to figure out an alternative career path but I feel like I don’t have any proper skills.

  179. C Average*

    I am just here to bitch and moan a little.

    I am trying to rewrite my resume, and I seriously hate resumes. I hate them! I’ve had a root canal, I’ve had a colonoscopy, I’ve had chickenpox as an adult, I’ve had to share a small hotel room with my in-laws, and I’d rather have ALL these experiences, maybe even at the same time, than work on my resume. There is something so exquisitely boring and crazy-making about trying to brag up all of one’s dubious achievements in a concise, non-arrogant, heavily formatted document. How did these godawful things even catch on as a done thing? They are the worst.

    Ahem. I feel better.

    If any of you out there find any pleasure in working on your resume, do you have any Jedi mind tricks you’d like to pass along?

  180. Unhappy at Work*

    I am not happy at my work.

    I am not good at my job and haven’t been making much progress.

    I do not have any friends at work and not much close friends in my social life.

    I am a graduate students in my field of study and I am working for a medium-sized charity, where most people would think the work is easy. But I am not sure why I am having a hard time doing my job. I don’t go out and socialized much, and may lack the life skills need at my job.

    Right now I feel a bit confused about my work. Sometimes when I asked my managers questions about my work, I have trouble understanding their explanations even if they explain it in a different way the second time. Sometimes I will try to understand the explanation, but will forget it right before I go back to my desk. I am embarrassed to have to ask again. I am sure my managers do feel a bit annoyed that I don’t seem to get what they are saying. Sometimes I even annoy coworkers because I can’t understand what they are explaining or I ended up saying something that is irrelevant to what they were expecting.

    I also do not have good communication or social skills. I made a lot of gaffes. Thus, I avoid talking too much and sit quietly in my desk whenever I can. I try to avoid risking another gaffe.

    I also do not click with my colleagues. I do not get along with them like friends. When I first started my job, my colleagues have a different expectations for my tasks that what my manager had early on. I passed along a tasks to my colleagues and they were not happy. Later on I check with my manager and she said it is okay for me to do them. So I take on more tasks later on in my job. However, I think the relationship strained from that point on. And the fact that I am not good at my job and always seen confused makes the strain worse. And this further discourages me to communicate much with them.

    I also don’t like how one of my managers handles things. Once I asked her to explain to me about a transaction we entered nine months ago and she said that the transaction was a long time ago and she can’t remember too well why we did it that way. She also sent one email that is marked “confidential” but I still can’t understand why it is private. She also have differing opinions on how things are done compared to my other manager, and I am not sure if I can bring it up to her. My relationship with her is straining as well and I am not really sure how to approach her to ask questions.

    I have a performance review coming up in a few weeks, I am not sure if this may be the right opportunity to raise my questions I also am not sure how I should rate myself at this point.

    I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to further upset her, but I think expressing what I had in my mind will do that.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      If you continue to allow yourself to be isolated from others, you will continue to have gaps in your ability to grasp the job. Try to figure out what you are willing to do so you do not feel so alone in doing your work.
      It sounds like a part of your problem is forgetfulness. Are you getting enough rest, are you drinking plenty of water? Do you make reminder notes for yourself? Do you take notes while people are explaining things to you?
      You can ask questions at your performance review. But you should be able to ask questions any time. Be sure to take the approach of wanting to solve things.

  181. FutureEdTech*

    Hey everyone!

    Well, I hope I can get a comment about this question, but I was wondering if there are any instructional design/education technology people around! I’m going to be graduating in December and I’m wondering how far in advance I should start looking for work in my local area. I’m pretty lucky in that there are some educational publishing and an university nearby (Phoenix), but I’m planning to move back to my “true home” of the midwest in a few years. So I’m wondering about the time to apply.

    Plus, should I start a blog about educational technology? Just to get my name out there on the web?

    1. SophieChotek*

      If you are an expert in educational technology, it might not hurt to start a blog. (Everything I’ve ever read about PR says one of the best ways to gain traction for a brand/company/start-up, is to position oneself as an expert in X, write good blogs that provide good information to people looking into that area, and that it can pay off i the long run with customers/media interest, etc.) Plus, if that is an area you want to specialize in, then having a blog would be something that potential employers would find if they “Google” you. If it very successful/gets comments, etc. also something to address in a cover letter, etc.

      I know there have been some interesting books, etc. written about educational/instructional design in the past few years. It sounds really interesting.

  182. SophieChotek*

    I am starting to apply for jobs and one university I am interested in has a huge set of essays (okay only 4) that I have to answer. (Grrr…I was ready to upload my resume and cover letter and then got to the essay part. Have to exist session and write essays, so I can copy & paste.)

    Anyway…one of the questions is “describe what areas you will need to develope to perform at this job” (or something like that). Anyway, it sounds like they want to know what skills I don’t have (that are for the job) or my weaknesses (self-assessed anyway) related to the job. How do you go about answering that without shooting yourself in the foot with…”I have Weakness X, Y, and Z…so yeah, obviously don’t hire me”

    1. JaneB*

      Can you make it more like “I did my own expenses and helped out with pulling together project costings for the Big Summer Event in my last role, and I found getting the paperwork right first try surprisingly satisfying, so I would look forward to learning more about the accounting system in order to support the group’s budget” – that is, more about why you think you will be good at the skill given the opportunity to develop it, rather than “I’ve never done accountancy tasks”?

      1. SophieChotek*

        Thanks! That helps me. I already thought of one when you put it that way. Maybe if I can come up with one more…

    2. vpc*

      I responded to this one recently: “I’ve never worked in area X, which I know will be roughly 30% of the portfolio for this position. However, I’ve taken trainings A, B, and C because I’ve been wanting to learn more about X for a long time, and I am an extremely strong candidate in areas Y and Z because…”

      It worked; they hired me. In talking it over afterwards, the reasoning was my strength in areas Y and Z and my demonstrated interest in area X — they knew even if I didn’t have that skill set yet, I could learn it. So, I’d answer the essay that way: I need to develop these skills, and here are ways I’ve started doing that / learned similar things before.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      One place I worked I was not familiar with the governmental regs for that particular setting so I needed help with that. But the help was “as you go”, not a formal training or a reference book.

  183. Dee M*

    I’m a secretary (civil service position) at a public school district. I was told (lol more like warned) my boss wants to take me to lunch. He is a new boss but previously worked in my dept. and was recently promoted (by default). I don’t care for him as a person but have no choice in who my boss is until I can find another job. He has continually lied to me over petty things and is a phony. People in the district who know him longer than me have the same opinion. None of the other dept heads, administrator or principals take their secretaries out to one-on-one lunches in fact I have yet to know of any instance of anyone being taken out to lunch. They usually give small gifts such as gift cards or basket of goodies at holiday time or administrative assts. day. The question is not if I should go to lunch with him but how to refuse his invitation?

  184. Dee Smith*

    I am a civil service employee/secretary in a public school district. I was told (lol warned) that my new boss wants to take me to lunch. Previous to his promotion which he got by default he worked in my dept. I don’t care for him as a person. He has continuously lied to me about petty things and is a phony. People in the district who have known him longer than me have the same opinion. I have no choice in who my boss is; I was the dept secretary to the previous dept head who just retired. No other administrators or principals take their secretaries out for one-onzone lunches. They give their secretsries small gifts such as gift cards or baskets of goodies at holiday time. The question is not if I should go to lunch with him but how can I get out of lunch?

    1. Dee Smith*

      The idea of lunch with this man makes my skin crawl. Recently I had to tell him he was standing too close to me whe he squeezed in between a rolling cart and me in my chair. He has definite social issues.

    2. SophieChotek*

      It’s a little harder with the boss, but I know AAM has addressed similiar issues with employees wanting to avoid obnoxious co-worker, etc.

      Could you claim, “I always use my lunch hour to do errands” or “take a walk” whatever? Of course, if you don’t, that’s hard.

      And him being the boss definitely shift the power dynamic and makes it a problem.

      Does he take other people out to lunch?

      1. Dee Smith*

        No he doesn’t take other people out to lunch. I was thinking of saying I run errands. It worked with the previous boss (who I was told was a “flirt”) right after thanksgiving a couple of years ago..he did get the hint. This guy is more persistent though. I asked for advice on the July 8 open thread under Dee Dee..very good advice that would have worked with the average person. I like the idea of adding the lets chat for a bit. I think that could work. Although I may have to repeat myself. Thanks Sophie and Not So New!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      You might actually get away with offering a different idea that could be easier? I was thinking you could say, “I really don’t need lunch, I prefer to bring my own. But we could do a coffee from the vending machine/break room and chat for a little bit.”

  185. NicoleK*

    It’s probably too late to get any response but thought I’d try again. A friend informed me that her company is hiring. This position would be an expansion and the tasks are identical to what friend does. I applied online on the company website and forwarded my resume and cover letter to my friend. She plans to forward it on to HR. Last night, I received the following in my email (see message below).

    A friend of yours, NAME OF FRIEND, FRIEND’S WORK EMAIL, indicated that you might be interested in the following job at COMPANY ABC. The recruiter has reviewed your information and would like to invite you to complete an application for this job.

    At the end of the message, it says to click on a link to apply.

    Is this common? I’ve already applied on the company’s website. I’m not sure why I’m receiving this email.

    1. NicoleK*

      I clicked on the link and after several attempts, it takes me back to the Company ABC’s job posting site.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Maybe the recruiter took the referral to mean that your friend had just passed your documents along, and they didn’t realize yet that you’d already applied. Could you have your friend give HR a heads-up to look for your application through their system?

  186. Red Flag Recruiter?*

    I’m interviewing for a position that has outsourced it’s hiring to a staffing agency. I’ve seen multiple red flags already and am curious if I should be cautious about accepting a job with this company, should it come to that.

    The main and most frustrating red flag is: I was told the position I applied for was filled but the same position in another region was available. Hours later the position I was told was filled has been reposted multiple times on different job boards. Why lie? Why not just say “we want someone more seasoned in this region” or “we’re looking for something different”?

    The other red flags are (imo) less severe, some par for the course with working with a staffing agency. Lying, to me, will always be the worst offence. Poor communication, boilerplate emails. Most odd was I was initially contacted by Recruiter A who ignored responses to her email questions. Days later I get an email from Recruiter B asking the exact same questions as Recruiter A. Then instead of having a conversation with me about the role and what the client is looking for I’m given a link to complete a one-way video interview. I guess I passed it and was then given a personality test. I have still yet to speak to the recruiters over the phone or in person. No one has explained the details of the job.

    The company they are recruiting for is pretty large which surprises me they’d outsource all hiring to an agency with such a bizarre recruiting process. Should I be worried/walk away?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      If you’re still checking this thread– YES, I think those are pretty big red flags. Personality tests should NOT be used in hiring processes, and it sounds like you’re being interviewed/screened by computers, not people.

  187. Rebel w/ A Cause*

    Happy Sunday! I am a long time reader, first time commenter.

    I really just wanted to see if someone (anyone!) can offer some basic words of encouragement!

    Long story short, I have been job searching now for over a year with only one interview in that time. I’m currently a government attorney and my office is pretty much run like a fraternity house. I’ve dealt with harassment, veiled (and unveiled) racism, and it’s generally becoming an unpleasant place for me to work. I’m seeking to switch into higher education administration but I can’t seem to catch a break.

    Anyone had long job searches while working a job that is having a negative impact on your self esteem and mental/emotional health??

    1. SophieChotek*

      Yes, I can commiserate. I’ve been searching for something that is a better fit (perhaps higher ed administration als0) but cannot quite seem to get a foot in the door.

      All I can say is that I’m in the same boat – but having read many posts here, I do think many things eventually work out! Keep looking and remaining positive!

      1. Rebel w/ A Cause*

        Thanks for the words Sophie!! I have faith that things will work out for both of us! :)

  188. Frustrated*

    Hi, late poster, but I have a question. My question might need a lawyer’s response, but it’s a Sunday and I’m a little more comfortable with asking anonymously.

    I was let go from my previous company — it’s a long story. In exchange for signing a legal release, the company offered me a severance package. The release specifically mentioned the severance.

    It’s been about a month and I haven’t received the severance, either in the mail or via direct deposit. I’ve contacted my old company about this several times, but they’ve never responded.

    Can I bring this to court? The release said that I can’t pursue any action against my old company, but would that still apply if the company isn’t fulfilling their end of the agreement, which is severance?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      It seems to me that the legal release was contingent on the severance package (consideration). Since you did not receive the severance package, they breached their agreement. IANAL, nor a llama. I don’t know if you could check with the Department of Labor first- their advice is free, where as a lawyer is $$$.

    2. CM*

      If the release says that you’re getting severance, that is part of the agreement, and you can enforce it against the company. You might want to get a lawyer to write a letter on your behalf first, rather than going directly to court. It would be less expensive and the company might pay more attention to that than to communications coming from you.

  189. Job Seeker*

    I have to do a presentation as part of an interview. The topic is my vision for this particular program. It’s a bit hard since I am not on the inside of the organization. Any suggestions for “winging it?”

    Also are graphics/images chessy or do they break up the whitespace?

    1. Job Seeker*

      Also, it’s only for five minutes. Normally I would do a PowerPoint, but for something this short would you go with a one pager?

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Our board just did this.

      They couldn’t have PP because we had no way for them to present it. Handouts in modest folders came across well. If you are interviewing with several people you could probably put a copy of your resume in the folder also.

      Only use graphics if they are relevant to what you are talking about and add clarity.

      Mix in some of what you have done that would be useful in running the program they have. “I have done, x which is similar to y that will be done in this program.”

      For us it was more important that the person had ideas than that the ideas were EXACTLY what we needed. We could modify good ideas to fit our needs.

      Try to estimate their constraints- including financial, number of employees, materials etc. Try to present ideas that would work under those estimated constraints.

      If they like what you are saying they may eagerly ask what you think of this or that, or they could ask you about how you learned A or B. Stay calm and answer the exact question they ask even if their questions seem all over the map.

      If you don’t know an exact answer then you can just show them what their choices are or show how you would go about finding a solid answer. It’s fine to say, “I am not sure, but here is how I would start to approach finding my answer _______.”

      They do realize you have limits as to what you can say because you do not know all of the particulars of the program. That is why the presentation time is so short, because they know this. They want to see you interact with them, they want to see how you will come across to other people. Half the presentation is not about the material you are presenting, it is about your presentation skills, your awareness of others, how you explain things to people, how you handle questions and so on.

      At one point in the interview, we all got chatting with each other. One of our candidates saw the interview drifting and she tactfully said with a smile, “Would you like to see my presentation now?” In that moment she reigned in a group of people who were not focusing as they should be. Yes, we were impressed with the ease that she did that. We learned something about her.

Comments are closed.