open thread – November 4-5, 2016

by Alison Green on November 4, 2016

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. Ella*

    I’ve been at a company for about a year and it’s becoming more and more corporate all the time… more programs to push forward a “change management model”, employee vision, employee recognition program… it used to be a very family oriented/employee friendly business but more and more they keep pushing people to work more and more, making changes all the time… it’s really turning people off and becoming a very cold environment.

    An employee survey was done and not everyone was honest, results looked more positive than they are and when management team members tried to speak up saying this isn’t reflective of what they are hearing they were dismissed. There is a huge gap between the management team and the staff and there doesn’t seem to be any way for the management team members to wake up and get it. Those that do seem afraid to say anything.

    Anyone have any experience with this? Even my husband’s company is implementing more and more ideas from books and corporate programs and it seems like the thinking is all we have to do is implement a program, put a logo or design to it, roll it out and people will be happy. It’s very odd to see people that out of touch. Any suggestions?

    1. Ella*

      Let me add that we are a non-profit organization and that employees are starting to become concerned that if they don’t show excitement about these programs that it could affect their evaluations. One roll out was met with lukewarm enthusiasm and the lead manager seemed frustrated that people were thrilled and engaged by the presentation. Even our “Leadership Team” does not consist of all our managers but only managers who have gone through a LIEB Works Leadership program so even in that instance people start to see the preferential treatment if you buy in to the new thinking.

      Thanks in advance for any comments.

    2. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

      Yup. LEAN Management?

      There are definitely some really good upsides to implementing some facets of this culture, but not at the expense of treating employees like cogs in a machine. There are a lot of growing pains with these types of models, and employees often don’t feel safe being honest on surveys about them.

      1. Anon7*

        I wonder if there are any reputable studies about the fact that employees aren’t always honest on surveys that management might pay attention to. If you could convince them that survey results aren’t the be-all, end-all of what’s going on at the company, maybe some of them might be more receptive?

        Where I work, everyone in management seems to be wearing rose-colored glasses, and everything that contradicts their “this new management style is great and everybody loves it!” attitude is ignored, unfortunately. I think they’re just blinded by the shiny new toy, and hopefully once the edge wears off they’ll be more open to feedback.

        1. Wendy Darling*

          I have a background in social science research with a side of user research and I unfortunately do not have specific citations, but it is a generally known thing in fields that do survey research that respondents have a pronounced tendency to try and tell you what you want to hear. And that’s when they’re doing it for research and will never see you again. I can’t even imagine how bad the bias gets when the survey is run by the people who sign their paychecks.

          In the fields where I’ve done surveys we tried to control for this by concealing the “desired” response wherever possible and by corroborating survey responses with actual behavior (e.g. if 80% of people say they like a feature on a survey but only 30% of users use that feature, they clearly don’t like it THAT much). You probably can’t hide the ‘desired response’ in a workplace survey, though.

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      My last organization suffered from this. It was a well-funded nonprofit startup, and when I was hired (as the 23rd staff person; by the time I left two years later we were around 150) it was scrappy and creative and we all just figured it out together. Over time, our leadership developed more and more systems to manage our work — many of which were effective and helpful, but some of which made the work feel overmanaged.

    4. Jessesgirl72*

      A few things to note here: Some people really just like to complain. It doesn’t mean they weren’t honest on the (I assume) anonymous surveys. Or the complainers were just a vocal minority, and everyone else is happy enough.

      The other thing is that these things in books usually don’t work out. So a company will implement them, some parts of them will be an utter failure (What, you can’t accurately account for every minute of your workweek a week/month ahead, because you’re the one in support writing the patches, and don’t know a week in advance what is going to break? That messes up the nice forms!) So then they’ll give up on that, and things will go along for awhile until they get the next hairbrained idea. It goes in cycles of every year/every other year. Which isn’t really helpful, except in knowing that “This too shall pass”

    5. spiralsofgrace*

      Do you work at my company? Because it feels exactly that way where I work too. I was hired on ~5 years ago, about 6 months after they hired a new CEO, and I’ve noticed a definite push since when I started from what I think was ‘a meaningful business that does quality work while being fun to work at’ to ‘a meaningful business that is trying to grow it’s profits because the CEO had a grand plan to do so’. .

      I work in a field where mistakes could mean people’s lives. Nobody is a robot, nobody can just work more and more hours without sacrificing quality and/or life outside of work. The company I joined five years ago seems to be disappearing in the midst of ‘can you take on one more project?’, and the turnover rate has started to reflect that.

    6. H.C.*

      RE: misleading results, maybe inform HR that there should be clearer communication to all-staff about the anonymity / confidentiality protections of the employee survey, as well as the importance of honest answers (i.e. “We can’t fix problems that we don’t know about.”)

      As for the culture itself, is it possible for you & your co-workers to organize informal activities to bond & connect? Such as lunch outings, after-hours mixers, weekend hike, volunteer activities? (and if you can get your org’s support for these things – such a comp time for volunteering or sponsoring one of these socials – even better.)

    7. CMT*

      Question: How can you be certain that the results of the survey weren’t accurate? Could it be that people who do like the new system aren’t as vocal about it?

    8. HRChick*

      We get that complaint a lot with the changes we are implementing – getting too corporate.

      But, I’ve got to say that we never implement anything without a reason. That and someone will always complain.

      For example, we’ve begun writing more policy because there was an issue with favoritism and managers being afraid to say “no” or not having the right guidance. Not because we like to tell people what to do, but because people need to be told what their options are.

      An employee recognition program, for example – here, the SAME people would get rewards over and over because there was no standard guidance. With the program, new people are being recognized for their work.

      A performance management problem – we had a huge issue with employees complaining that everyone got the same increases even though they were bad employees and Susie Superwoman wasn’t motivated anymore because what’s the point.

      Now we get complaints about how they don’t like to be evaluated, though lol. So, you can’t win.

      And I have found that in life, people like to complain. Vehemently. Even if when it comes down to it, they’re accepting the change and understand why it happened. So, the things you hear people complaining about are probably because they are given the opportunity to do so.

      Lastly (and I know this is very rambly!) – anonymous surveys are never anonymous. There are a thousand different ways that identity can be found out from the IP to the content. That also might be why the survey was lighter.

      1. Pari*

        Much of that is because you didn’t have a consistent management philosophy. Now that people see how you’ve chosen to operate they are deciding whether or not they like or are willing to live with it. It will get much easier going forward when you can discuss this up front with candidates

        1. HRChick*

          Things change – even in business. While some people like the “family” style, many find that it encourages a lot of favoritism and bias.

          Having a consistent management philosophy, to me, is less important than having good change management.

          1. DragoCucina*

            +1–We’ve had people complain about us not being as “family oriented/employee friendly business”. Yet, some of the things that made us that way were actually illegal. As you mention, a history of favoritism and bias. There was also a history of “mean girl” cliques. When we went to treating everyone more equitably I received complaints that we were “colder”. Policies were implemented prior to problems rather than in response to them.

            As for honest surveys. Some people will give the answer they think I want to hear and then whine and complain. We simplified our website address. I explained why. Everyone nodded their heads. Then when I was on vacation I had one person tell everyone that she refused to use it because she didn’t think it was valid. She was still complaining about a software change from four years previous.

            1. Ella*

              That’s really an interesting point I hadn’t considered. I came on board while the place was already moving away from being more family oriented and what is left of it I actually find odd at times, I’ve never seen certain things in a professional setting. But coming from a very abusive manager I have tried to warm up to certain things. I don’t think I’m great at it though, I prefer to work.

              But yes I can see where that could be an issue. I don’t have a problem with structure or policies, there is much in this place that is broken but what they are doing now, rolling out one thing after another, isn’t efficient or effective. And because decisions are made at the management level the mess and confusion created is left to the rest of us to deal with.

          2. Pari*

            Eh not everyone is going to be okay with changes no matter how well you manage them. There will always be some who say that’s not what I signed up for

    9. Annabelle Lee*

      My nonprofit employer has become much more “corporate” over the last few years too. Our CEO is from a large tech company (think printers) so has no concept of how nonprofits typically work.
      Our “anonymous” survey is a joke. HR management spends tons of time trying to figure out who in each area is the unhappy one (or more). Then if a whole group gets a low culture score, they have to go thru mandatory team building training. I’ve heard managers tell their staff to lie on the survey so they don’t have to do the team building.

    10. Ella*

      Thanks everyone for the feedback. It’s interesting that we are a non-profit in the healthcare industry and have recently had a few executives, including a new CEO who came from hospitals and so I assume that has been part of the change we are seeing. We certainly needed to up our game and could certainly stand to update some processes but the change models and programs do not stop… for example there was a recent re-org in a few departments and while it was announced and went into effect on 10/24 the managers of these teams still don’t have their new titles. It would just be good to slow down a little… but later this month they are having an all day retreat to discuss plans for next year and talk about more models, one that still hasn’t been presented to the staff (non-management). Managers are in so many meetings that their own staff can’t get a hold of them during the day and managers are frustrated that they can’t get their own work done. But it just keeps going.

      We haven’t seen a huge turnover given the benefits at this company are so good but people are starting to feel that it’s worth seeing what other companies are offering.

      I like the team building ideas but I wonder if they will think ‘why is that needed?’. We used to have ‘denim days’ in our company, where you would give $5 and wear jeans to support a local charity but now we haven’t done that for a few years. In our all day retreat coming up the thought around maybe not working through lunch was that could be team building time. But I think something more constructive would be positive.

      The survey HR used was not communicated as anonymous until people asked so they later clarified it was. But they used Survey Monkey and the link in the email received clearly said, under the access button, to please not forward as it is specific to you. So clearly not as anonymous as advertised!

      1. TheLazyB*

        I send out surveys!! It’s likely to be that each recipient gets a one-time-only link to stop people from completing it more than once. So it may still be anon.

        Our staff survey is contracted out, so the company who administers it could probably look at specific results, but they don’t know me so why would they care?

        We also send another survey. It’s analysed anonymously, but we can link it back to respondents if necessary – but would only do so in very limited circumstances. When we’ve done so on the past the recipients have been grateful.

    11. Chaordic One*

      I have not had good experiences with “change management.” In my experience, it amounted to a lot of additional work for already overworked and overwhelmed employees, with pathetically little in the way of actual support, recognition or even gratitude.

      In exactly the ways you describe, too few employees received recognition. Many of the employees who did receive recognition were undeserving. They were usually the ones who didn’t really have to deal with that much in the way of change, and not the ones who did the heavy lifting. The people who speak up with legitimate objections have those objections dismissed.

      The employees who options move onto better jobs or take early retirement, but a fair number of employees get thrown under the bus. When there is no actual increase in productivity and/or profitability, or when there are high rates of turnover, management will reconsider and institute some new program to address the problems. But not until there are significant problems. The ball is in management’s court. For the majority of employees there is “No recourse.”

    12. Not So NewReader*

      It sounds like there is more of a narrower focus on the work itself and less about employee’s needs and concerns.

      It would be wise of management to explain each change as it is happening and why the change is necessary or important.

      I do know that regs have gotten off the charts crazy. Compliance with these regs has people jumping through hoops like we have never seen before. This chews up huge amounts of people’s time and that personal connection steps out the door as everyone is buried in redundant paperwork.

      I think changes are especially noticeable the longer you stay with a company. I stayed with one place for over a decade. By the time I left the job was nothing like when I started.
      The work itself was easier and safer on many levels.The good news ends there. However, the infighting and backbiting was through the roof. Our regs that we worked under basically straight-jacketed us as we could not do the most basic things. Most of us felt a huge energy drain trying to come up with ideas that were workable given what we were allowed to do.

      To console myself, I made myself recall the way the job used to be. There were many scary days. I also consoled myself by reminding me that I had been there a while so I knew where the pitfalls were. I knew what not to do, I knew who not to mention what to and so on. And in a snarky way, I used to say, all these changes only create SMARTER workers. I meant smarter in the context of people became more clever about finding ways to torpedo the company. Because that is what happened
      On a day-to-day perspective, I would take each change and ask myself, “this effects me HOW?” Surprisingly, many of the changes really did not impact me directly. It did not make the workplace more pleasant however.

      Tell yourself that no matter what they come up with you are still YOU. You are still a thinking, creative, hard-working person. They can’t take that away from you, if you decide not to allow it. Sometimes the best we can get is that we can live with ourselves. There were nights where I went home and slept JUST FINE. I knew I had done a day’s work with sincerity and integrity. Other people, not so much.

  2. Kipper*

    How do you get over the fear of moving from a not-great job to a worse job? It’s time for me to move on from my current job (the culture has never been a good fit and I’ve spent years struggling against it), but I’m afraid of giving up my good job (tolerable, great compensation, good people) and landing from the frying pan into the fire. All of my screening, intuition, etc. failed me here—they misrepresented their culture so thoroughly in the interview process.

    How do I feel confident that I’ll move on to something better, not something worse again?

    1. PanicAttack*

      Are there specific things in this culture or about the job that you can articulate and specifically ask about? It won’t prevent people from lying, of course. One way of looking at it is that you know you will not be happy if you stay at your current job. You have a chance of being happy if you go to something new.

    2. ButFirstCoffee*

      I am dealing with similar feelings. To me, writing stuff down always helps. So write down what you don’t like about your current job, and use it to form questions for your interviewer, as Panic Attack mentions. Then compare those answers to your current job. This might give you some peace to see what you can look forward to (as long as they are a trustworthy interviewer!)

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        There is a danger, though, of going the opposite extreme—instead of finding a healthy balance of things, you find a company that is very wrong in the other direction.

    3. Moonsaults*

      I had my breaking point a couple of years ago and was scared to move on because “what if it’s worse.” The key is to remind yourself that you cannot color your POV based on one terrible experience.

      It’s much like what if you’re in a relationship with someone who sucks, they lie to you and turned out to be a real jerk. Do you then say “Well I cannot move on because the next one will be just as bad or even worse!”

      You have to take the plunge and go through with the break-up. It’s much worse when you’re looking at it with those negative beat down eyes, I know all too well.

      It does get better. You need to do those internal pep talks. Remind yourself that you’re a great asset to a team and you will find your fit.

      I was truthful when I went into my interviews to the extent that I used this as a reason to tell them who I was and what I was looking for. I didn’t go in thinking that I had to do anything to get the job, as Alison says, this isn’t a one way transaction.

      1. chickabiddy*

        I am not picking on you specifically; I just chose this post to respond to. I do think that there are some good parallels between jobs and relationships, especially in the interviewing/dating phase. But there is one major way that this fails for me. I got a divorce even though I didn’t have a new husband lined up and everything is just fine and I’ll start dating or whatever when it feels right. If I quit my job, I probably won’t be just fine and I’ll likely have to start the process of finding a new one ASAP and not when it “feels right”.

    4. Marcy Marketer*

      I am in a similar place. I had a toxic job, and I interviewed a few places and ended up with two offers. I chose my current job because I thought it would be a better culture fit, but it was not what I thought. As you said, all my screening questions failed me. Still, I have great benefits, vacation, and I like my day to day. I’m afraid I’ll leave and have it worse elsewhere.

      I would say for your next job, read and believe online reviews, be honest with yourself, and try to find friends or connections who work at companies you’re considering to ask for the “inside scoop.” Try to at least go for a position that offers a better title or salary, so if it isn’t a good fit, at least you’ll be better compensated! And good luck :)

    5. Ella*

      I can relate and I feel for you. In my situation I don’t know if I’m trying to make the best of it or if I’m just convincing myself to stay and shouldn’t. I try not to kick myself that I felt like I did my due diligence coming in and should have seen certain things but I did my best at the time. We’re all human.

      I would hope that your current experience would help you NOT select the same kind of place moving forward. You just start looking and I would bring it up in the process as someone else mentioned, that this is what you are looking for and this is part of why you are leaving. Now you know better I would think you could use your experience as a tool to get you to a better place.

      Good luck! I think starting to take action can build some momentum and help you feel better. All you can do is your best.

    6. Namast'ay In Bed*

      Been there, done that, looked back later and wondered why I stayed so long.

      My last job made me miserable, wasn’t teaching me anything, treated me poorly, and paid me terribly. The only “positive” was my coworkers – misery loves company! Despite all the negatives, I was terrified by “what if the next place is somehow even worse??”. Now that I’m at my current job where I’m happy, learning all the time, get treated awesome and paid great I kick myself for staying at the old job so long. It can get better – way better!

      Now that I’m done annoying you with my positivity, here’s my advice – talk with people who work at the company, not just the interviewers. If you get the opportunity after your interview, take a walk around the office, get a feel for the environment. If they don’t want you talking to people or seeing the office, that’s probably a bad sign.

      What really worked for me was I got my current job through a friend – they were able to give me an honest representation of the company and I got to really know what I was walking into. Talk with your friends and colleagues about what their company is like. If it sounds like a place you’d be interested in, ask them to keep an ear out for openings in whatever your department is, or if they’d be comfortable passing along your resume. I know you might not want to bother your friends, but they probably know you’re miserable and want to help get you out of there! (A possible referral bonus is even more motivating!)

    7. anonycat*

      I took the leap of faith a month ago. While some parts of new company are behind the times, overall the culture is 100x better. I decided if I didn’t take the jump now I never would, and I was so incredibly miserable. I went by how I felt when I came out of the interview. I felt like I just “fit” unlike the interviews I’ve had in the past couple of years.

    8. Jessesgirl72*

      If you’ve been at your job for “years,” know that there are better research tools available now. Glassdoor was really just getting started during my last search 4 years ago, but now it’s loaded with reviews and detailed information.

      The other thing to remind yourself is that nothing is permanent. Gone are the days when the norm was you started with a company fresh out of school and stayed with them until retirement. People are a lot more mobile now, and that’s expected in most industries. So if you get a new job that is an even worse fit for you than your current job, after the usual settling in period, then start looking again. In the meantime, at least you’ll be making more money.

      1. Ella*

        Yes Glassdoor is really an excellent tool. I will say in my current role, where during the interview process it seemed like a great company, I did notice the reviews for my company were not as high as I had hoped when I first looked them up!

    9. Golden Lioness*

      Just flip it around. Tell yourself… What if it’s better? Why not? All you can do is ask questions and your due diligence. If for some reason a new job s not a good fit, you can always find another one whenever you are ready to job-hunt again.

      The reality is that a lot of people don’t “love” their jobs. For most of us our jobs are just like what you’re already describing. Fortunately, the really bad, toxic or unhealthy situations are not the norm… it’s just that we hear more about them because they make such good stories… good luck!

    11. SS*

      I was at a terrible job for too long and just started a new job a couple weeks ago. I was scared of the same thing, but this new job is soooooooo much better. While it is a leap of faith, keep a close eye on small signals while interviewing. When you ask about expected hours, do they look nervous? Conversely, do they answer so quickly you barely finished your question? Those are both probably bad signs. Do they seem genuinely excited about you? Do the people there look relaxed and cheerful? Are they pushy at all?

      Take every little detail you notice and blow it up 10 fold in your head. If you’re misunderstanding questions, it’s likely you’d have communication issues working there. If theyre running late, expect them to be late to everything. If they don’t really listen to your answers and are just going through the motions, they probably won’t listen to your input/opinions that much. In retrospect there were a lot of red flags when I interviewed for my last job, but I didn’t notice them because the work seemed great and I was too nervous during the process. This time around I asked very detailed questions, paid close attention to all the details, and wrote down my feelings immediately afterwards to reflect back on. I tried to really step back from the shiny presentation of the work and benefits, and imagine the tedium of day to day life with these people.

    12. MC*

      Each new move is an opportunity and you learn more each time. I went to a place and three days in I knew I made a terrible mistake. Terrible terrible terrible mistake. Timing was on my side because three months later I had lined up a new job. I’ve been with them for close to 20 years now. Holy cow, I’ve been with them close to 20 years.

    13. Anonymous Commenter #143*

      I’m dealing with something similar right now. I remind myself that since this is the worst place I have ever worked, it’s unlikely nextjob will be as bad or worse. I don’t know if that will help you since your current job isn’t The Worst Job Ever. Good luck to you!

      1. Augusta Sugarbean*

        Thanks for asking this question. I’m in a similar position and have the same concerns about moving on. I think that’s the downside to reading this blog. Lots of helpful advice but apart from the positive updates, we mostly only hear about problem offices. (Although wasn’t there a thread a while back about good things readers’ bosses had done?) It’s easy to start to believe that the majority of workplaces are dysfunctional.

    15. Chaordic One*

      You don’t really ever get over that fear, and there’s always a chance that your new job will turn out to be worse than your current one. But you feel the fear and “do it anyway.” You know that you’ll do your best in any job you take and that’s about all anyone can ask for.

      If you wait long enough the problem will take care of itself. (You’ll probably get fired from your current not-great job and get thrown from the frying pan into the fire.) Or you can take charge of things, and start looking and conducting a discrete job search and hopefully you’ll find something before the problem takes care of itself.

  3. DevAssist*

    Woohoo! Friday!

    So…my boss fired our IT guy vary mysteriously and suddenly this week and now we have no IT department for 100+ employees. Ugh. We were also told that if he calls the office to report it to her, and I’m just wondering WTH happened because he’s super nice.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        Back in the 90s our IT guy got fired for running a Nigerian scam using our computer equipment (yes, he was nigerian in case anyone is wondering)! He was married and kept asking me and a couple of other women to go out on dates with him. Blech.

          1. Golden Lioness*

            You know it! with a 50,000,000 fortune that he wants to generously deposit into your bank account!

          3. DragoCucina*

            Ha! My oldest son roomed at college with a Nigerian prince. He (the prince) used to laugh and say it’s because in his village his family had more goats. The body guard for his parents implied otherwise. It was a running joke among the him and the students that they were all going to share in his fortune–divided out it was about $7.25. His fortune wasn’t as big at the computer guy’s obviously.

        2. De Minimis*

          An IT guy was fired at my workplace for working on outside work projects using our IT resources on company time. I wasn’t around for it, but apparently he accidentally e-mailed something to the entire staff that revealed what he was doing.

        3. Anon for good reason*

          In my old team last year a guy was sacked for helping run a pirate radio station from his office laptop. The rest of us were speechless.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think you should wonder what’s going on. It’s very likely something serious if you think your boss is a reasonable person. It could be theft of some kind. Using company resources to host something unsavory. It could be anything. No real point in speculating what happened.

      I think the more important thing is whether your IT guy will be replaced… or is like the budget cuts from the letter from yesterday…

      1. DevAssist*

        See, but I don’t really think my boss is reasonable. We receive emails every week highlighting different parts of the handbook because my boss doesn’t really treat us like adults (lots of policy change/enforcement for silly things). In addition to the IT guys, another employee has resigned. Since January, 4 people have left (two were fired and two resigned). I don’t get how my boss isn’t recognizing that our turnover is kind of high for our field.

        1. designbot*

          For 100+ people that kind of turnover isn’t generally considered to be that high. My office is in the same range and I think we’ve had half a dozen since I started in April.

          1. Pen and Pencil*

            Yeah that isn’t high. I used to work at a 30 person office and since Jan 1 2016, 9 people have been fired or left. 27 people turned over in three years. These were all non-retail/short term positions.

      2. DevAssist*

        The position is open, but the offered salary is insultingly low for experienced IT people. I don’t foresee the hiring process going well.

        2. Golden Lioness*

          That is so frustrating! I understand business need to cut costs, but I wish they were not so dismissive of what an experienced worker brings to the table… ugh!

      3. Anna*

        I think it’s completely reasonable to wonder what’s going on. Just don’t, you know, start or spread rumors.

    4. NarrowDoorways*

      Not our IT guy, but the other month our sales person was fired and the CEO asked that if he contacted us to let him know.

      Turned out he’d spent weeks applying for jobs on company time, from his company email.

    5. Kara Zor-El*

      At a previous company, the IT director was fired very quickly when management found out he was embezzling (ordering equipment and keeping it/reselling it).

    6. ExceptionToTheRule*

      The one we fired was watching porn in the basement… so, you know, you might not want to know.

  4. Sunflower*

    Asking about work from home policy as a non-exempt when you’re in a different position from your coworkers

    Non of the non-exempts in my office have remote access on their laptops, therefore, they can not work from home. The only ones that have it are me and another non-exempt on my team because we travel. There isn’t really a formal policy on non-exempts working from home because the no remote access kind of takes care of it. WFH leniency varies between other teams in my dept although my boss does WFH a lot.

    I live in Philly and SEPTA is on strike so subways/buses are not running although our trains into and out of the city are. I walk to work so I have not been affected, however, the other person on our team asked to work from home this week and it was okayed. I know this is somewhat of an extenuating circumstance, however, 80% of our office relies on public transport and has managed to make it in(she lives 2 miles from a functioning train stop) plus my company has set up a carpooling program with reimbursable parking.

    While I don’t expect to regularly be able to work from home, I would like to ask if it’s okay in rare cases (like doctor’s appt, getting furniture delivered, etc.). So how do I go about that- especially now that someone else on my team was given the okay. FWIW she asked my bosses boss, not my boss so I’m not sure if that affected the OK decision.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      Why don’t you use the strike as a way to bring it up? Something like: “the fact that some coworkers are working from home during the strike got me wondering – when is it ok to work from home? for example, there are times when I am under the weather but would be able to drag myself to my home computer and work; would that be a feasible situation to ask to WFH?”
      My boss doesn’t like us to WFH and it pisses me off. I had a stomach bug last Monday and still had to use a sick day even though I worked from home all day.

      1. LizB*

        I don’t know your situation, but if I take a sick day, there’s no way I’m also going to work at home that day. I’m going to take the day to rest. Is that an option for you? I’d be super annoyed if I had to take a sick day and also was expected to still work.

    3. Caroline*

      I’m non-exempt and I recently asked to work from home.

      I just asked, and went through the process that was represented to me when I did ask.

      I would NOT point to what treatment others are receiving as reasons why you should get what you want. That kind of comes off as your paying too much attention to their business. I’d just bring it up with your boss (do you have a standing meeting or something where you just check in? That is how I brought it up with my boss) and say you were wondering if partial WFH would be something you could arrange. It’s also if you’ve thought through how you would be accountable for your work, hours, etc., but I’d start with just asking respectfully whether or not this would be something they would consider.

    4. Temperance*

      I’m so jealous of your carpool program.

      Your coworker might not have it so easy. I ride the Regional Rail, and I have to say that it’s really difficult to deal with right now. They’re making us wait in lines for 30+ minutes just to catch a train home, because they’re adding stops for bus riders (who also refuse to respect basic train etiquette, but that’s a gripe for another day). My trains have been late every morning, and overcrowded, and getting home is a freaking nightmare.

      I think you should ask for WFH when you need it.

      1. Sans*

        I worked in Phila for almost 30 years. I love the city but between the commute and the wage tax, I don’t miss working there.

        1. MarketingLadyPA*

          Yes!! The wage tax is why I’m now in suburbia. I’m in Chester County now and it’s just as good, if not better, than city living for me.

        2. DoDah*

          Former Philly myself. My father used to call the wage tax ,” a fee for the pleasure and privilege of working in the City of Philadelphia.”

    5. Triangle Pose*

      Another Philly person here. You’ve got my sympathies. I live in the city and walk to work, but a ton of my coworkers rely on regional rail and it’s painful just listening to the stories. Even walking it’s been insane because of traffic from people who are driving in instead of taking the train. I really hope the parties resolve this before Election Day or alternatively the city wins an injunction for Election Day. Letting the strike continue on Election Day is pretty much the definition of irreparable harm and would be such a terrible precedent for disenfranchisement.

      1. Talvi*

        Ugh, that didn’t even occur to me! There needs to be more support for ensuring people are able to cast their vote, tbh. Voting is important!

        1. Sunflower*

          We got an email that SEPTA will go to court to force employees to work on election day. Hoping this mess is sorted out by then though!

    6. Paige Turner*

      I’m salaried non-exempt and I work from home quite a bit (like now!), and I’d say you should just ask your boss. Maybe something like, “The SEPTA strike got me thinking about work from home. If I had a mild cold, or we had a major snowstorm, for example, would working from home for a day be something that I could do?” If your boss says, no chance, then you may not want to push it. But it’s possible that you boss would be fine with it, and I don’t think that asking once is something that a reasonable boss would get angry at you for asking about.

  5. SJ*

    I’m asking something on behalf of my brother, and it’s a bit of a tale. The short version: my older brother, a chemistry academic, is really struggling in his postdoc due to possible Asperger’s, and I want to help him find resources that will make him more successful in his work.

    The long version: he’s never been diagnosed, but both he and I are pretty strongly convinced he has Asperger’s. He’s 30 years old, has a PhD, and works as a postdoc in a chemistry lab (he’s on his second year; he got a grant or something to continue after his first year). When he was young, he was “socially awkward” and had trouble making eye contact, etc., but he improved a lot as he got older, and it was sort of forgotten by the time he hit middle school because he’s so intelligent and seemed to be getting on fine. He was still a little awkward, but he had a good group of friends in high school (a bunch of math and science nerds like him), and he made some connections in college and grad school.

    He mentioned the possibility of Asperger’s a few years ago, and I sort of brushed it off because I didn’t know the extent of his difficulties, but he clarified them for me recently. It’s very difficult for him to understand nonverbal cues, and he struggles with understanding other people’s motivations; when there aren’t specific expectations of him, he has a hard time trying to figure out what he should be doing; he has a really hard time with putting coherent papers and Powerpoint presentations together that “tell a story” because everything seems important and he doesn’t know what to omit (he said a professor once told him a research paper he wrote seemed totally “stream of consciousness,” and another professor had zero clue what point he was trying to make in a paper he wrote).

    All of these problems are exacerbated because his boss, who he does research for, is one of those “I expect you to read my mind” types (he straight-up said that), so he often doesn’t give clear instructions. The boss has ~a vision~ for research, and his employees are tasked with figuring out ~the vision~ with very little direction. My brother doesn’t know what his boss cares about research-wise, and his boss won’t clarify. Someone without Asperger’s might thrive in this sort of situation, but my brother doesn’t — it’s a huge weakness of his. He said his boss often treats him like a first-year grad student because of his problems trying to figure out what to research and how to put presentations together. I had a boss just like this guy (essentially “read my mind, and if you need to ask clarifying questions, it means you’re slow”), so I understand the difficulties.

    My brother told me he basically just doesn’t talk to people unless it’s necessary because conversations can be so difficult for him, and that just breaks my freaking heart, honestly. He hates his lab, his boss is a jerk, and he has no real friends (partially due to his social issues and partially because he basically lives in the lab), so he’s unhappy and lonely as hell. He basically doesn’t have a life and is totally demoralized. Ugh, I’m crying just writing this. It’s so upsetting because his hands are tied. I’d love for him to just peace out and come home (he lives halfway across the country), but he needs to stick it out because he needs a good recommendation from his boss to continue in his career, or else the last 2 years would have been a waste.

    Despite the terrible situation in the lab itself, I know my brother would be more successful navigating everything if he had some strategies for addressing his communication and human-behavior-comprehension (is that a thing?) issues. Things will never improve if he doesn’t. He’s just the hardest-working person I know, and so kind, so it’s really difficult to hear all of his problems and feel like I can’t do anything. I’m hoping to jump-start some research for him and gather some resources (though I know he ultimately needs to do all the heavy lifting).

    So: Are there specific resources out there for academics/scientists with Asperger’s? Or are there any good resources in general geared toward helping people with Asperger’s in higher education and/or the workplace? I do know there was an AAM post about a young person with Asperger’s back in 2012, so I’m looking through that, but I was hoping to find something a little more specific to my brother’s case. He works at a large university, so I’m going to suggest that he tries to see if there’s a learning support center or what have you. He’s sort of in a weird place because he’s technically a professional but still engages in work that college-aged students do, like Powerpoints.

    If you made it to the end of this long-winded post, thank you!

    1. Emi*

      He should definitely check if there’s a learning support center. Some university counseling centers might be able to offer resources as well, or refer him to something. Is there a Dean of Postdocs or a Grand Advisor of Young Faculty or anyone like that? Even an undergraduate advisor might be able to point him to something specific to his university if he shoots them an email (probably less stressful than face-t0-face).

      He could also try searching and/or asking for resources on Academia StackExchange, which I’ve seen deal with a number of questions dealing with ASD.

      Also, is there anyone else in the lab he can talk to? I’m generally decent at picking up cues but if my PI literally expected me to read his mind, I’d be *super* cheesed off and therefore very sympathetic to other researchers’ worse struggles. If a lab mate came to me and said “I’m bad at social cues [with or without mentioning Asperger’s] and having to read Dr. Annoying’s mind is really stressing me out, can you help me figure out what he wants?” I would be more than happy to help him, even if we weren’t good friends. And given the topic, I wouldn’t be weirded out if he approached me in an awkward way.

      I’m really sorry your brother has such a terrible boss.

      1. SJ*

        Thank you for the suggestions! And yeah, the boss is truly awful. My brother’s advisor in grad school wasn’t exactly cuddly, but he said she and the other grad students were more willing to help him out with reorganizing his frequently abysmal presentations. This boss just couldn’t care less about any of it: just wants results, results, results.

        1. Jules the First*

          What about getting external help reorganising his presentations? I did some work at university as an editor (PhD and post-doc stuff) and I had at least a couple of people whose bills for my time were being paid by the university as an ADA accommodation…though he may need to jump through the hoops for a formal diagnosis to take advantage of that option. I still do the occasional paper – and I’d volunteer to do a trial run, but these things work much better face to face (especially if he’s no good at social cues).

          1. zora.dee*

            Another thought for a place to seek out some advice, my friend teaches classes specifically about how to write a Masters dissertation at his university. Maybe someone who teaches a class like that would also be willing to give some advice and help outside class to a colleague.

    2. Manders*

      Oh man, this sounds really tough. I’m sorry your brother is going through this.

      Do you think a writing tutor might be helpful for him? Many tutors are willing to work with adults. I know that many people with autism can write well, sometimes extremely well, so I think he might be able to improve in that area with some help.

      Honestly, his boss sounds like a nightmare. I would struggle in a work situation like that, and I have no problems with reading social cues. Unfortunately, that’s often the nature of academia: there’s often no one above a bad boss who can coach or punish them unless they really cross the line (and sometimes, not even then). Do you think your brother might be happier outside of academia? It’s hard to believe that there’s an exit when you’re in the middle of a postdoc, but perhaps he would be happier at a company with more reasonable hours and a boss who actually knows how to manage employees.

      1. Paige Turner*

        Seriously, terrible bosses in chem seems to be a thing…and it sounds like many people, with or without Asperger’s, would be miserable having a boss like this. Possible ideas: yes, writing tutor could definitely help, especially with the “everything seems important” issue. This might not help with this boss, but in general, it could be really useful. Also, how much longer will your brother be working with this boss? I get the impression that a second year in a post-doc is uncommon and it might be about time for your brother to start looking for the next thing, anyway. If he does start interviewing for either academic or industry jobs, it might be helpful for him to ask some questions at interviews along the lines of “I’ve found that I work much better with someone who can clearly tell me their expectations instead of wanting me to read their mind. What’s your management approach and how to do you prefer to communicate with your employees?”
        Good luck and keep us posted :)

        1. Bye Academia*

          A 2-3 year postdoc in chem is pretty common, sometimes even longer for biochem. It can take a year or two to get out a paper after you start in a new lab, and it’s better to have something from the postdoc on your CV before you apply for jobs. Since the academic hiring cycle is so long, this means tacking on an extra year of postdoc while you are applying and interviewing.

          I definitely agree that whenever he decides to interview, it’s a great idea to ask questions about the structure of the management and how expectations are communicated. I don’t know what his plans are, but he may be happier in industry. If he stays in academia, he’s going to have to structure his own projects 100% and he may not enjoy that.

          1. SJ*

            Thanks for commenting! Yes, one of his main focuses right now is getting a paper out to add to his CV, since he’s at the beginning of his 2nd year. He actually had a meeting today with his boss to discuss a draft of his paper for a project he did back in the spring — haven’t heard back about it yet, but I know he was really nervous about it.

            And I also brought up the question of whether or not he’ll be happy in academia. I was on an academia track and switched to higher ed admin because I didn’t know if I could hack it — I think he needs to ask himself the same questions.

        2. TL -*

          Chemistry across the board has one of the worst reputations in STEM academia (Organic chemistry has the worst, so…)

          The cultures of chemistry departments are generally quite bad, the sexism and probably quite a few other -isms tend to be rampant, and there is an expectation that your job is your life and you’re either good at it or not – if you’re good, there’s no need to teach and if you’re bad, there’s no point in teaching.

          There are departments, lab, and entire universities where this is not the case! But it, overall, has a really, really bad reputation.

      2. SJ*

        Thank you! I agree a writing tutor could help, though I’m thinking he’d need to find a tutor with a science background to even understand his papers. I was a writing tutor in college (I used to tutor grad nursing students and the like), and I tried reading one of his publications from grad school once and barely got past the abstract. It was just letters and numbers to me :X

    3. aelle*

      I don’t have the exact answer you are looking for, but my sister is in the process of getting diagnosed as Asperger’s / autistic as an adult. It is particularly poorly diagnosed in women, and in my sister’s case, the communication problems related to autism were hidden behind the fact that she suffers from a heavy speech impediment. Beyond the personal satisfaction and closure of getting a proper diagnosis, she hopes to receive (small) disability benefits, and maybe disability accommodations in future jobs. Also, her therapist’s office offers support groups and she is really thriving in the company of people who think like her.

      I hope you can find resources for your brother and that things improve for him. I know the sadness and powerlessness that comes from seeing a disabled sibling struggle.

      1. SJ*

        Thank you for commenting. I’m glad your sister is finally getting the diagnosis and support she needs!

    4. TheAssistant*

      This sounds awful! I’m so sorry he’s dealing with this.

      I’m not on the spectrum, but I have a lot of similar problems: I’m awkward as heck. I can’t read a room for non-verbal cues for love or money. Sometimes I even have trouble with verbal cues. I have a monotone voice so others don’t pick up on MY verbal cues sometimes. And my brain goes 1,000 MPH so by the time I’ve gone from A-Z in making connections, those around me are still on B and utterly lost. It is a struggle sometimes professionally.

      Your brother has a terrible boss. There’s no getting around that. But here are some things that may help:
      –Have him find a person on his team who he trusts – I use either my boss (I have an incredible boss) or a trusted peer to bounce things off of sometimes. Things like “hey when I said X, how did it come across?” Or “I’m thinking about doing Y because of A, B, and C reasons – what am I missing?” Helps me fill in the nonverbal part and also helps close logic gaps I’m incapable of recognizing.
      –Definitely hit up the learning center at the university – there SHOULD be one at a large school. Heck, my 1,800 student undergrad had a robust one.
      –Also look into any Writing tutoring the school may have. Again, my undergrad was tiny, but we had 15-20 writing tutors at any given time to help with academic writing. We even had a small staff of Chemistry/Biology writing tutors since that tends to be a different beast.
      –When your brother is writing a paper, suggest an outline. Like I said, I jump from A to Z and also have verbal diarrhea sometimes – everything seems so important and interesting and I just go on a rambly tangent about it. It is weird. But doing that while typing really helps – I get all my thoughts on paper and take a walk, then start to organize into a cohesive structure. I like to write out all of my ideas in each section, then prioritize. I love making lists, so this works great for me. I also like to apply the “who cares” rule for every finding I have in a research paper. “Great, so X is statistically significant. But…who cares? Just me? Okay, maybe shelve that one for later…” is a methodology I have used.
      –Science writing is great for this because there is always SOME sort of structure. If his boss isn’t telling him about ~the vision~, he should start by reading/skimming his boss’ published work to see what the boss does, and what he DOESN’T do.
      –If it is a big university, he may be able to seek help from other academics who aren’t his boss, just to see if they have any advice. Also have him seek out folks who have “graduated” from this post-doc or this researcher for survival tips.
      –Re: conversations, I like to practice in my head (which sounds ridiculous) and in a mirror. I have an arsenal of go-to phrases with the proper pitch that have been proven to move conversations forward.
      –I lose focus on the task at hand sometimes because I have 10 other things running through my mind. To cope, I always have a notebook by my side (on my desk, at home, and a travel notebook for spontaneous ideas I get while walking) and then I clean them up later, with a little distance, in Evernote. Here also is where prioritizing and “who cares” comes in.

      I fear I have rambled as well. Good for you for trying to help him! I hope things get better for him.

      1. TheAssistant*

        Oh! And when he’s editing, he should read the paper out loud to himself. It is WEIRD the first couple of times you do it, but you really notice things like Being Out Of Breath Because Of Your Run-On Sentence or I Just Said That and I Said It Again: A Lesson In Repetition. Maybe he could start a little editing group among his peers to get other people’s eyes on his work.

      2. SJ*

        Thank you for the thoughtful comment! I was a writing tutor in college, so I’d like to dig into his process a little, even though I probably couldn’t help with the actual papers since it’s all just letters and numbers and reactions and stuff I don’t understand. I think someone with a science background would be better equipped to help.

    5. the_scientist*

      Ugh, this sounds so, so tough. You sound like a caring, supportive sibling and that’s so awesome! I think the suggestion to avail himself of University resources is a great one- I know postdocs are technically “employees” and not students, but they may have services he can use, or be able to connect him to community resources.

      Honestly, ANYONE would struggle with a boss who expects employees to read their mind, so maybe it would help your bro to just know that this isn’t really a reasonable expectation? It doesn’t do anything to solve the problem, but it might help re-frame it from “there’s something wrong with me” to “my boss is a jerkface.”

      1. SJ*

        Thank you so much for commenting! I mentioned it briefly in my post, but my last boss sounded very similar to my brother’s, so once I started talking through similar unreasonable expectations/etc. that my boss had of me, he started to get that his boss is a terrible manager, and he really does get it now. Despite that, he still feels like he’s coming up short in other areas that aren’t directly connected to his boss’s terribleness (like presentations not making sense, etc.) and I think that’s what he needs to work on for whatever he does next.

    6. Kim*

      The most important thing your brother can do for himself is to find a cognitive/behavioral psychologist, preferably one who specializes in autistic spectrum disorders. A qualified therapist can help him tremendously in developing strategies to improve his social and communication skills. Even though what they will teach him will seem completely unnatural, it will help him navigate through the neurotypical world the rest of his life. He sounds like an amazing guy to have made it this far in life successfully and it’s not unusual for people on the high functioning end of the spectrum to go undiagnosed. Also, having a diagnosis in hand can make it possible for him to access his university’s ADA programs/accommodations. That’s very possibly not going to make his way smooth since his boss sounds pretty unreasonable (really — read my mind??) but you never know how sympathetic he might be. I’m not an Aspie but my grandson is and it’s really opened my eyes to seeing the world through such an unusual lens. I’m not familiar with the specific type of resources you’re looking for but both of you should read Temple Grandin’s “The Autistic Brain” and Oliver Sacks’ “An Anthropolist On Mars.” Good luck to your brother and to you for being such a great supportive sister.

      1. SJ*

        I hope he’d be receptive to the possibility of a psychologist, but we haven’t talked about it yet. Thanks so much for commenting!

        1. Mananana*

          I don’t have any experience with the academic end, but perhaps he may find his “tribe” here: http://wrongplanet.net/forums/ Having an online world where there are others working through the same issues can be a life-saver. And they have a community for those “neuro-typicals” who love someone on the spectrum.

    7. Bye Academia*

      I may not have Asperger’s, but boy do I have experience working in a lab where my boss gave no direction and then wouldn’t like the direction I chose on my own. However, I was a grad student and your brother is a postdoc, so he has a little more power. If I were in his shoes, I’d try a few things.

      Since he has a hard time figuring out what he should be doing without knowing other people’s expectations, he can try setting some for himself. As a postdoc, he should be transitioning to that anyway. He may not end up following the vision the boss expected, but hopefully he can end up following a vision he can be proud of and that will set him up for designing projects totally on his own in the future.

      I’m not sure from your post whether he’s okay figuring out how to research and just gets stuck writing/presenting it, or if trouble conceptualizing the project also makes it difficult to design his day-to-day experiments. If he’s on a grant that’s tied to a specific project, he should at least have an idea of the broader goal. Especially for someone who gets stuck in the details, it could be helpful to take a few days just to refocus on that goal. What is the main topic being studied in the lab? Why is it important/what are the broader impacts? What part of the topic is he personally interested in figuring out? What work has been done in the past on his lab or others? What new angle is he interested in taking? It may be beneficial to write all this down for practice as an introduction to a future paper or presentation.

      As he does his experiments and starts getting results, he can refer to this introduction. For every detail he thinks is important, he can ask himself: How does this detail move me closer to the goal I outlined? Does it support what I thought would happen? Does it go against what I thought? Do I still need more information to decide? These types of questions can really help put his results in context. Also, if the detail is interesting/important but doesn’t provide information towards the goal, he can decide not to include it.

      As he works through this, I think your idea of having him see if there is a learning support center or a writing center at his university is a great one. They probably won’t be much help in terms of putting together scientific papers and presentations specifically, but they may be able to help him focus his work more so it isn’t presented as a stream of consciousness. Also, does he have any coworkers from his old lab who may be willing to look over some of his new work? Perhaps his graduate student advisor, if they have a good relationship?

      The hard reality is that, Asperger’s or no, this kind of vision thinking is difficult for everyone in academia. A lot of successful scientists still struggle with writing a clear and concise paper. Trust me, I’ve read many in high impact chemistry journals that are neither of those things. I would urge your brother to keep working on these things because it will make his career a lot easier if he can communicate his findings effectively, but at the same time, he shouldn’t be too hard on himself. Academia is notorious for setting sky-high standards and forcing you to figure it out on your own because so many mentors are terrible. Not all, of course, but people get jobs in academia for their ability to research, not their ability to train students. It shows.

      Good luck! I hope your brother is able to figure out a way to get out a paper or two soon so he can move on with a good recommendation, and that he is able to find resources to help him navigate his possible Asperger’s.

      1. SJ*

        Thank you so much for the thoughtful comment! I have grad school experience myself, and lots of workplace experience and advice thanks to AAM, but I’m a humanities person, so all the processes of doing scientific research and working in a lab are beyond me.

        He actually had a meeting today to discuss a paper draft with his terrible boss — I haven’t heard how it went yet, but he always comes out of those meetings so discouraged. But he definitely wants to get a paper on his CV sometime soon.

    8. Jean*

      Good vibes to you for being such a caring, attentive sibling! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      I don’t know all the answers but you’ve taking a great first step by asking intelligent questions. Here are my thoughts, as a parent of an Aspie still in high school and as someone whose Aspie-mom status has prompted me into learning a lot about outreach, networking, and information-gathering.

      Hopefully your brother’s campus has an Office of Disability Services. My understanding is that these offices were created to support students with disabilities, but it doesn’t hurt to ask if they could help a post-doc or point out other resources on campus (is there a dean whose portfolio includes post-docs, or a professor in your brother’s department? are there people in the psychology department, or possibly other departments, who might be helpful allies because their work focuses on the topic of People With Autism in the Workplace?) or in the community. If there’s not enough support on his own campus, check out other local or nearby campuses, including community colleges. My own home-county community college has a good reputation for being especially helpful to students on the autism spectrum.

      Re other community resources: Check with one of the several nationwide organizations that cater to children with Asperger’s or Autism and/or their parents. As the kids grow up (and age out of K-12 services) they and their parents become more aware of young adult issues, such as finding friends and learning to navigate the workplace successfully. I’m thinking of

      One resource specifically created for adults is the Autistic Self Advocacy Network (ASAN http://autisticadvocacy.org/ ) which has the motto “Nothing About Us Without Us.” Their web site looks like it has a lot of information.

      There’s also a ton of general information online. It may not seem “local” enough but you might still get ideas, resources, or even individual names that prove helpful.

      Your brother can do a lot of the Internet searching and email outreach. As for the eventual interpersonal contact, you can make some phone calls to start with. You might also want to see about local-to-your-brother social skills groups. The skills to reach out and befriend someone are the same as those needed to improve workplace communication and manage one’s self-advocacy. If there isn’t a local agency, there may be local counselors (probably Ph.D. psychologists, or MSW social workers).

      Good luck to you. This won’t change overnight but you and your brother should not be discouraged. Your cause is just. The world needs more people to march under the banner of neurodiversity. Sorry for the preaching.

      1. SJ*

        Thank you so much for all the wonderful suggestions! I really appreciate it. Wishing you and your son/daughter the best.

    9. Kelly White*

      I don’t have much solid advice, but I feel for your brother (and for you!).

      I would think the first thing he needs is a diagnosis. Once he has that I would imagine that accommodations can be made. I’m not sure you say this specifically, but if he is connected with/working at a school, I would think they would have a department to help students with special needs.

      My brother has some learning disabilities, and I remember that when he did some testing for work to get licenses, my mother (an educator), made sure he knew that he could be allowed extra time and stuff like that.

      I don’t know anything about post-doc education, but does he have an adviser who could at least steer him toward the right people?

      Or, if he is not in an academic environment, I’d start with his doctor, who can probably help get the diagnosing process started, and then once he knows what he is dealing with, he can (and you can help) reach out to the appropriate organizations for support.

      Hopefully he can find the right kind of help to make things easier for him!!

      Good luck to you both!!

      1. HannahS*

        Yeah, I was wondering about your first point too. I don’t know if a post-doc is considered a student or an employee (or a hybrid) but as a student, if you have a diagnosis, you can meet with a disability counsellor to get reasonable accommodations put in place. Now, if he’s not considered a student, maybe the ADA help him? Regardless, I think a diagnosis could be helpful. And universities often help people access affordable care (i.e. a cheaper psychologist to do an assessment).

        1. TL -*

          A postdoc is a very cheap employee that is often not counted as a employee, or enrolled into the university’s complete benefits programs. A lot of times they don’t have access to university resources either. He needs to figure out what his university offers but there is a not-insignificant chance it will be nothing.

          1. Yup*

            No, postdocs are employees on salary – only the salary comes out of the PI’s grant (in STEM, not humanities or humanistic social sciences). At public universities in particular, post-docs would certainly have access to resources — SJ, please encourage your brother to check or, if it helps, you can have a look through their website yourself.

            Things to look for:
            – If there’s a diagnosis, then absolutely, he should register with the Disability Offices. This will protect him legally.
            – In terms of Writing Centers, I’m not sure that a post-doc would use the student services. BUT!! Please know that faculty have access to Teaching and Learning professional development as well, and he should avail himself of these services too.
            – Consider also the Uni’s oral communication center, which usually falls under the aegis of the Teaching/Learning Center at most institutions. They help with presentations by offering practice and feedback. I worked as a tutor after my PhD with PhD students (maybe some postdocs? I forget), and the same services may be available for postdocs.
            – Most universities have a postdoctoral association (made up of postdocs) and some have an office dedicated to that population. If not, the National Postdoctoral Association offers multiple resources, standards, and advice on navigating the experience. My point, in brief, is that contacting others for help will probably help him feel less like he’s in a downward spiral. It’s hard, but these bodies are there to help!
            – Are there other postdocs in his lab? Talking to them may help, too.

            1. TL -*

              A lot of universities (at least in the USA) don’t track postdocs or pay for/offer benefits for them or offer postdoc support beyond what the postdocs organize for themselves – the postdoctoral association.
              They’re not treated as full employees (where I work now, they left about 2 hrs early for orientation because they weren’t eligible for what was covered on the last two hours – which was all benefits.) Mind you, I’ve worked mostly in private universities, so the public world could be very different.

              So yes, he should absolutely contact others! But also it is a very distinct possibility that there’s fewer resources available to him than to other members of the university. (Also, I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of a university with an oral communication center – I don’t think they are that common in the USA?)

        2. AChem*

          At some institutions post-docs fall under the purview of the academic union, which might be a resource to point him toward programs/assistance if he can’t access the student resources.

          As far as writing goes, there are several good books now that talk about how to tell a good scientific story, with exercises you can complete to help improve your work. It’s not a perfect substitute for having someone else read what you write but it can be a good place to start.

      2. SJ*

        Yeah, I have no idea how the postdoc thing works either, but this is definitely something to consider. Thanks so much!

    10. TL -*

      So, short term your brother should probably get his paper published, strive to get a diagnosis and start learning strategies. Is there any way he could collaborate with another PI/lab? If his project allows for it, he could definitely look for someone who would be able to help him with his project and his storytelling skills.

      Mid-term, he should get out of his lab. If he’s planning another post-doc, he should make it a priority to look for a small, supportive lab with a PI who really believes in mentoring that he feels a connection to; I would advise that he stays out of the big-name labs unless they have a really, really good reputation for mentoring and support.

      Long-term this “he has a really hard time with putting coherent papers and Powerpoint presentations together that “tell a story”” is a big problem, especially at the postdoc level. If he can’t tell a story, he can’t get published and he can’t get funded. Hopefully, a diagnosis and CBT will help him navigate this!
      But, Powerpoints aren’t what college students do in STEM, they’re what the professionals do. This is a hugely important skill (they don’t have to look good but they do have to tell a story!)

      A good place for him to start is to look through the most relevant journal for him and going to as many talks as he can. Start analyzing them – whose presentations are most convincing, and why? Who presents in a coherent manner and what makes it work? What does the work that looks like his commonly present as evidence? What do they leave out of the presentation that makes it in the paper? What does he know had to be done but wasn’t in either?
      He should be outlining his papers and presentations before he gives/writes them, so maybe he can working a few excellent, relevant papers backwards from the final products to the outline. The “relevant to who” question is a good one – is what he presenting necessary for evidence? Is it something someone else can significantly build on? If not, why is part of his presentation?

      It sounds like his PI is not a good mentor (and many people struggle with the storytelling aspect of science to varying degrees) and what he really needs is a PI who is willing to sit him down and work with him on his skillset, while he develops strategies on his own time for his particular challenges.

    11. Anon Aspie*

      Female aspie here. There’s a lot of debate in the community about whether getting a professional diagnosis is necessary, but this is one of the times it can help – you usually need a professional diagnosis to get accommodations, whether through school or work (I’m a little unclear on what would apply here).

      His boss sounds like a nightmare. I often have found it helpful to ask for things but phrase them a little loosely, such as “It would help if you were blunt/said what is on your mind, because I’m not one to pick up on the subtleties. This helps with avoiding disclosure, but getting what you need. This might not help with the boss, but maybe with colleagues? Happy to chat if you have any questions.

    12. Ultraviolet*

      I’m really sorry your brother’s having such a bad time. It’s genuinely touching to read your support for him. It’s so easy to feel isolated in a situation like his. Your support probably means a lot to him right now.

      Assorted thoughts:

      -Is your brother close enough to his PhD adviser to ask for some advice on the difficulty he’s having with scientific communication, and the fact that his postdoc adviser is not helping him improve? Or even to ask whether he knows of resources for scientists with Asperger’s?

      -If your brother is planning to do another postdoc, he could also ask his PhD adviser to recommend a postdoc adviser who will help him develop his communication skills.

      -If he’s planning an academic career, he should very seriously be thinking of another postdoc unless he can turn this one around in a big way. It sounds like his current adviser would describe him as “not independent,” and regardless of whether that’s a fair assessment, it’s a really bad thing for a hiring committee to hear about a postdoc.

      -It’s worth a try to see if your brother can use the university health/counseling centers, but I predict he won’t be able to. Postdocs are not students in any way. He should ask university human resources whether he can access any EAPs. Unfortunately I’m guessing that’s also not possible. He could ask whoever he talks to there for a recommendation about what to do, but I have no idea what they’d say. Possibly the health/counseling center would be able to give him the names of some off-campus professionals to whom they sometimes refer students.

      -Even though his boss is being a jerk about it, it is truly critical for his career that your brother improve his communications skills. There might be some online resources about this. But it’s also possible that there are resources within his department that are aimed at helping grad students with this, and he can probably take advantage of those. If he’s not already on the grad student mailing list, he should ask about being added. If they have any kind of grant writing workshops or classes, that would be especially helpful.

      -When your brother doesn’t know what his boss has in mind, do you have any idea what kinds of things he asks in order to get clarification? It’s important to make these requests for clarification sound as little as possible like, “I don’t know what I’m ‘supposed’ to do.” So if he’s not sure what the current priority is, it’s better to ask, “Do you suggest prioritizing A or B?” rather than “What should we do first?” It’s probably better to proactively suggest things and have the boss disagree than to directly ask what the boss wants. I recognize this could be tricky if your brother has trouble with unspoken cues.

      I really hope your brother finds some helpful resources soon. Good luck to him!

    13. AnonAcademic*

      I am a postdoc and in my observation, disability issues that are accommodated more easily during the PhD phase of people’s careers can become a bigger challenge during a postdoc. It is in part because your level of independence is expected to be greater (including generating original ideas and forming collaborations), in part because it’s usually a 2-4 year commitment instead of the 5 years doctoral programs provide so added time pressure, and because the stakes are higher at each academic transition. So for better or worse your brother sounds pretty “normal” in that regard. I have one coworker who is going through the same adjustment where their ability to execute certain technical tasks independently is not where it needs to be for our environment yet and they are also treated more like a 1st year grad student when it comes to those things. Another who came from a different country with different cultural norms and struggled with the collaborative aspect of projects, and was drowning under an insane workload trying to do everything himself for a while as a result. And in my case, my depression and anxiety symptoms that stayed mostly at bay in grad school, really reared up when I started my postdoc since I manage a very, very expensive and very complicated study that involves human patients and all the fun that brings.

      The good news is there are probably resources like a faculty-staff help center, professional development office, etc. I actually just signed up for a postdoc stress management group at my U! He might even be able to audit undergrad classes on presentations or get tutoring. If it’s a big U they definitely have these things, he just needs to reach out.

      And he should talk to literally any other postdoc because I think every single one of us has our own struggle.

    14. Mander*

      Just as a note of solidarity: when I met my husband he was doing a PhD in chemistry. He hated it and ended up dropping out and getting a job in IT. Several years later he was diagnosed with Aspergers and just knowing the symptoms helped him enormously. I hope your brother can find a similar help.

  6. Wondering*

    At my job, if you have sick or vacation time during a week you worked overtime, instead of getting overtime you get the sick/vacation time back. Is this standard practice? It feels kind of weird.

    1. Persephone Mulberry*

      Yes, that’s standard. Vacation or sick time doesn’t count as “work” time so if your actual “work” time doesn’t go over 40 hours, you get paid entirely in straight time dollars.

      1. fposte*

        No, I think you got it. As long as there wasn’t OT in the work hours even before you add in the time off, of course.

      2. Not the Droid You Are Looking For*

        I think you read it right as well (unless they are in a state like CA, where OT is daily).

        If an employee works 10 M, 8 T-Th, and then leaves 2 early on Friday because they were sick, they would still be at 40 hours for the week, which would not kick in OT.

        1. Anna*

          I understood the question to be that if you work 10 M, 8 T-Th and leave two hours early on Fri because you’re sick, they swap out the hours you worked over for the sick hours and your sick hours go back in your bank. So you come out with a 42 hour work week with no OT for those two hours AND the two hours of sick time.

          1. fposte*

            Right, that’s what I thought. It’s a 40-hour work week + 2 hours of sick time. They’re not required to pay you OT legally, but since you worked a full 40-hour week they don’t ding you for the sick time.

            1. Oryx*

              Yup, this is what my manager and I did when I had a brief period of time when I needed multiple doc appointments several weeks in a row after maxing out my sick time post hospital visit.

    3. seriouslywtf*

      That seems weird to me. At my job you don’t get paid the overtime unless you *worked* the full time, if there was any sick or vacation, the overtime is null and void. I would love to get the time back instead. I bet it depends on your state’s laws what they can do.

    4. Isben Takes Tea*

      It feels weird because they’re replacing a lower compensation for a higher one…you’re not getting a fair exchange! I don’t know if it’s illegal, but I would bet it is in some states (like California). Check with your labor board!

      1. CMT*

        Except you’re not actually working overtime if you worked 40 hours and had say, 8 hours of vacation time. It would be weird to pay overtime for time you weren’t working.

    5. Sunflower*

      Hmm good question! I know it’s not standard (at least at my company) but not sure what the legal rules are.

    6. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

      Every place does it differently, but this is definitely legal (except maybe in California?). Basically what they are doing is giving you comp time within the same work week so you don’t go over 40 hours (or, say, you only go over to 42 instead of 45, for example).

      1. Jennifer needs Thneeds*

        In California, OT sets in at 8 hours each day, plus there’s more required breaks. (I believe it changes again at 10 hours, but it’s been so long since it touched my life that I don’t recall the exact details.)

        And if you don’t work more than 8 hours/day but you go over 40/week, then OT also applies. Again, I think it goes up again at 45 hours, OR on a 7th day without time off, but please see previous disclaimer.

        (Source: life-long CA resident and read-aholic who has read an awful lot of those required DOL posters over the years. And yeah, I know this isn’t Reddit. :) )

    7. Murphy*

      That’s how mine works. You only get time and a half if you worked over 40. Otherwise you get what we call “extra” leave, which is basically just getting your hours back. (It just goes into a different bank.)

    8. Red Reader*

      That’s how mine worked. It was represented less as “getting the time back” and more “You worked 37 hours this week, so only 3 hours has to come out of your PTO for Tuesday instead of 8” — not getting it back so much as they didn’t take it in the first place.

    9. Moonsaults*

      Wait, so you say you take Wednesday off sick, that would regularly be paid for 8 hours out of your sick time.

      But between Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday you worked say 45 hours.

      They pay you for 45 regular hours and credit your sick leave back?

      Usually if you physically work OT, you have to be paid as OT. But I haven’t encountered this system so I’m scratching my mind trying to figure out their angle.

      You can always ask your state labor board about it and see what they say. You don’t have to open an investigation particularly to seek advice from them.

      1. MC*

        In your scenario you’ve physically worked 45 hours. In that case, you should be granted your OT. But you would not qualify for 53 hours for the week or 13 hours of OT. You only worked 5 hours OT.

        In a different scenario if you work 33 hours on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday but take Wednesday off with 8 hours sick leave, then at the end of the week, you’d have worked 33 hours physically (no OT) and received a benefit of 8 hours totaling 41 hours. But you didn’t physically work OT. So instead, you’re given one of your sick hours back making your work week 40 hours (No OT) including use of 7 hours sick time.

        Totally legal. Very common.

        1. Moonsaults*

          Thank you for breaking it down for me. That indeed is legal and makes sense.

          I’ve never been in a position where a company is that rigid about never paying over 40 hours, it’s frequently done around here where you take a day off, then work say 33 hours over all. So you would just get paid 33 work hours and 8 sick pay without only allowing a 7 hour cash out. The thinking behind that is that you don’t want people taking increments less than a day, so to keep stuffing an hour here and there, it makes things difficult when you end up with 6 hours of sick leave and they’re like “well you don’t have a full day, so sorry nothing we can do about that until you accrue the next 2” >_<

    10. Nobody*

      Where I work, it depends on when the overtime is and when the vacation/sick time is. If you are scheduled to work 4 12-hour days, the last 8 hours of the 4th day are overtime. If you take the whole 4th day off, you get paid 40 hours of straight time (36 hours worked plus 4 hours of vacation pay), and the 8 hours of overtime is basically just cancelled. On the other hand, if you took the third day off, you would use 12 hours of vacation time and get paid for the 8 hours of overtime if you work the 4th day.

    11. fposte*

      Even in California, OT is based on hours actually worked; if you worked 8 hours M-Thurs and then came in for 4 hours on Saturday after being sick on Friday, you’re not legally entitled to OT.

      It’s not uncommon for union contracts (looks like it’s particularly common in government) to get that OT as standard in bargaining, but that’s different. I hadn’t heard of giving the time back–that’s kind of nice.

      1. zora*

        Right, the exception in California would be if you worked 10 hours on Tuesday, but then were sick on Wed, you would still get overtime for those 2 hours on Tuesday.

        But if all of your days are 8 hours or less, it would be the same as in every other state.

      2. beachlover*

        In CA it is not based on total hours worked, but on daily hours worked. So if you came in M-Thur and worked 10 hours that on Monday, you would get overtime for the 2 hours on Monday. Even if you are work less than 40 hours total.

        1. fposte*

          Right, you earn OT either way there–that’s why my California example didn’t go over 8 on any of the days but still would have qualified for OT based on the weekly hours if there hadn’t been the sick time.

    12. BRR*

      I get how it feels off. But as others have stated, overtime usually applies to hours worked. I think in CA it would be different because OT is classified as over 8 hours a day.

    13. Princess Carolyn*

      Are you saying that if you take, say, 8 hours of vacation but end up working 38 hours over the rest of the week you’ll get 2 hours of vacation back? (So your timesheet might say 42 hours but you didn’t actually work 42 hours.) That’s how my office does it, but it’s the first time I’ve encountered that. In the past, I did a lot of 40-hour weeks in four days and still spent my 8 hours of vacation for the fifth day. Annoying.

    14. Jessesgirl72*

      No, it’s not standard. Anywhere I’ve worked wouldn’t give you the sick time back, or the OT pay.

      If I got OT for a week where I took a PTO day or there was a holiday varied.

    15. Jadelyn*

      I’ve never heard of a place doing that before. I agree that it feels weird, but afaik it’s perfectly legal – although I guess that depends on where you work:

      So, say you work in a state other than California so you only get OT for hours over 40 in a full week. You work 8 hours on Monday, take 8 hours of sick on Tuesday, work 8 a day for Wednesday-Friday, and get called in for 4 hours on Saturday. You’d have a total of 44 hours on your timesheet, 36 hours of actual time worked and 8 hours of sick. In that case, I feel like it would be weird, but it would be legal to just use 4 hours of sick for Tuesday and leave the other 4 hours back in your PTO buckets. Kind of sucks, since instead of getting a 44 hour check you’re still only getting a 40 hour check, but you keep the extra 4 in your PTO bank, so not inherently unfair and definitely not illegal since you’re still getting paid for all the hours you actually worked, which is all the law requires on a Federal level.

      And in fact that scenario would still be legal in California so long as you didn’t go over 8 hours in any single day, because CA’s weekly OT threshold matches Federal’s. The only time it would differ is if you had any days that week where you worked more than 8 hours – for example, if you worked 9 hours on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, and took 8 hours of sick on Tuesday: you’d end up with the same total 44 hours where you had 36 hours of actual time worked and 8 hours of sick. In this case, though, even if they took back 4 sick hours you’d end up with a uniquely Californian situation, receiving a normal 40-hour check for the week but with 4 hours of it as OT because that’s daily OT, regardless of whether your weekly hours worked broke 40 or not. (And I’ve worked in CA my whole life and STILL think that looks weird, tbh.)

      Any other CA HR people want to chime in re our new sick time law – I want to say I don’t think that would affect this, I don’t think it requires that an employer pay sick time if that would take the employee into weekly OT, but I’m not 100% sure of that so if anyone else knows please chime in!

    16. DragoCucina*

      No, our employees don’t collect OT unless they actually worked more than 40 hours. Vacation or sick times isn’t used. If a non-exempt employee works 36 hours Monday – Thursday and takes a full day off (say Friday) only 4 hours of vacation time is used. They don’t collect 32 at regular pay + 8 hours vacation + 4 OT.

    17. KR*

      We have a general aversion to over time at my job but if you work Sunday you can do it because even though you get paid time and a half still the Sunday pay gets taken out of a different account since we make time and a half on Sundays. Similar circumstances so it may be helpful

  7. Audiophile*

    So this week hit a new low with this job. They managed to miss payday and checks were late for everyone including those with direct deposit.

    I was given a small advance and told it would be deducted from my next paycheck. Meanwhile, I’m trying to argue with my bank to waive the overdraft fees I incurred because my direct deposit was late.

    This is the second or third payroll issue but the first time they’ve completely missed payday. I can’t afford to quit until I have something else lined up, but I did add this job to my resume and will now cite these payroll issues as my reason for looking to leave.

    1. ButFirstCoffee*

      I think that is a understandable reason for any future employer to consider. Sorry you’re dealing with that and good luck.

        1. Kyrielle*

          But they paid everyone, just later than they said they would. Assuming it’s still within the “must be paid within X days” value for that state (if there is one – a couple states don’t even have that, I don’t believe), wouldn’t they be okay in most states?

          (To be clear, I think it’s a bad thing to do to employees – at its *very* best it would be an unfortunate mistake, and if it was knowingly delayed then it is worse – I’m just not sure it’s illegal as long as they fixed it quickly enough for the terms of whatever state they’re in.)

          1. Audiophile*

            I’m in NY, I do believe we have a specific language for when employees must be paid. I’ve never really looked, because I’ve dealt with a crappy staffing type agency for 5 1/2 years, who regularly met payroll but held additional checks like training that they mandated we attend, sometimes for 2 or 3 months.

            As far as I know of, I don’t think I’d have a claim for the DOL because they did pay us, it was just held up, according to them, because of the glitch with the company that processes the direct deposit. I don’t buy that since the checks were late and it wasn’t just direct deposit that was affected.

          2. Pwyll*

            Yeah, this is really going to depend on the state’s paycheck laws. I’m also not entirely clear on what’s going on: if you weren’t paid, but you were given a small amount less than your paycheck, it’s not an “advance” it’s a partial payment. And having it deducted from the next check doesn’t make sense. Is the advance to cover the expenses of the late check? It’s all fishy to me, and might justify a call to the state labor agency.

          3. Jadelyn*

            In California, I think an employer can be penalized for paying employees later than their regularly scheduled and clearly stated payday, even if you’re still within the “X days” period for the days worked. But that will of course depend on the state, I don’t think there’s any Federal requirement of that kind of thing.

          4. Observer*

            It’s definitely a legal problem to delay pay. There are two issues – you need to pay within a certain time, and you need to pay when you say you will. This came up for us right after Sandy, because our fiscal department was scrambling their heads off to make sure we didn’t miss payday the week after the storm.

            I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t know how severe the penalties would be, but it’s definitely asking for trouble.

            1. Audiophile*

              This is interesting, because when I started a new job last December (a different company from this one, but also a nonprofit) because of when I started and the way their pay periods were structured, I didn’t get paid until January. No one told me this when I started though this would have been helpful, and I certainly didn’t think to ask, or I would have been willing to start sooner.

    3. Dzhymm, BfD*

      Have they provided any reasons/excuses for these payroll issues? I’ve read other stories about cash-strapped companies missing payroll and the excuses start to get downright comical if the situation weren’t so sad…

      1. Audiophile*

        They’ve never really provided a reason for the other issues, though Big Boss was responsible for at least one or if not both of the earlier issues.

    4. Kyrielle*

      Ugh. If the bank won’t waive the overdraft fees, I would ask your company whether they will cover those, since they were incurred because payroll was late.

      1. Audiophile*

        It’s pretty clear to me that they’re not willing to do that. Big Boss apologized but said she can’t promise that there won’t be an issue with direct deposit again, because it’s so new to the agency. She keeps saying that the agency has money, but I’m concerned obviously.

        1. Kyrielle*

          Ugh. Yes. In which case, I don’t suppose there’s any way you can move the bill pays out a few days from the expected deposit to protect yourself from future screw-ups? Stilll not something you should have to do, but it sounds like you may need to anyway, just in self-defense.

        2. MWKate*

          I’m always very skeptical about companies saying direct deposit is new to them and therefore difficult. Unless they are completely unable to communicate with their bank (doubtful) they should be able to get this done. This is not a new process, and it’s a pretty straightforward process.

          Also, they can now send the deposit same day if it was missed for some reason, if it’s caught early enough. It’s slightly more expensive (depending on what their bank charges), but they should be responsible for covering the cost if they messed up.

            1. Natalie*

              Concur. It literally takes less than 5 minutes for us to process, and it’s incredibly easy to cancel and re-process in the event of an error.

          2. zora*

            Seriously, that’s total crap, keep looking and get out of there as fast as you can. The chances are this will only get worse.

          3. Heather*

            Yeah, either their payroll provider is incompetent, their internal payroll people are incompetent, or the boss isn’t telling the truth about the money being there.

            1. Audiophile*

              Our payroll is done by an offsite bookkeeper. I have no real way of knowing if the money is there or not.

            2. Audiophile*

              I do think the bookkeeper is incompetent. She’s supposedly in her 80s, and there’s been several issues with her screwing up checks.

              1. zora.dee*

                ooooo, this is new info. Honestly, if it were me, I would be banding together staff, especially people at higher levels if possible, and going to the Big Boss to insist that they find a new bookkeeping service. If paychecks have been screwed up in the past, then it’s clearly her, not direct deposit that is a problem. And you don’t have the difficulty of firing someone, this is just a matter of finding a new service.

                In non-profits I’ve worked in, this is something senior staff would have standing to bring up at management level meetings as a serious issue for the functioning of the organization, and insist that a task force be put together to search for and select a new bookkeeping service ASAP.

                1. Audiophile*

                  I just need to walk away, it’s been made clear that employees have complained about the payroll issues as they’ve cone up. No one is willing to do anything about it. Since it’s become clear this isn’t the first and I was told to my face that I couldn’t be promised it wouldn’t happen again, I need to move on.

          4. Audiophile*

            In this case, it is new to them. The agency has been around for more than 20 years but only started offering direct deposit a few months ago.

            1. MWKate*

              I work in bank operations, direct deposit is really really not a difficult process. Especially if they are outsourcing it and only need to provide basic info – unless they chose a company that is absolutely incompetent in which case they need to find another solution.

              I would really tend to assume this is a money issue and not a ‘this is a hard thing to master’ issue.

            2. Natalie*

              That doesn’t really matter. Accounting software and banks are all set up for direct deposit, so it’s generally just doing an initial setup where people’s bank information is input, and then generating and uploading a form to your bank.

            3. Moonsaults*

              It’s probably because they don’t follow the very simple rules the bank sets down for them. They have to have the information for direct deposit 48 hours prior to the deposit. So if you’re paid Fridays, if they don’t have them by Wednesday at about 10AM, those deposits aren’t going in until Monday.

              This is only typical because so many people don’t realize they have to understand the pretty basic rules >_< Then they tell employees "oh no, it's a tricky process…" no…no it's not, get things done, deadlines are real.

              1. MWKate*

                The thing is they don’t need it that far ahead. I mean each bank can have their own internal policies on how far they need it in advance, but the bank can send a direct deposit for credit tomorrow – and if you do it early in the day you can send it for same day credit (as of the end of September). So – they really have no excuse for not being timely about it.

          5. Bellatrix*

            Exactly. I’m European and cheques are practically unheard of here (I’ve only held on in my life when I briefly lived in the States). Most people go for a direct deposit, though occasionally someone insists on being paid in cash. I can’t imagine it being hard, I can set up a direct deposit to someone else (like my ISP) in Internetbanking in under a minute.

            I understand it’s a bit less common in the US, but it’s really not a difficult spell!

            1. Audiophile*

              It’s not that uncommon in the US though I’d say the only places that probably don’t have direct deposit are likely small mom and pop companies. This is the first place I’ve ever worked that didn’t have a long history of direct deposit.

          6. MsChandandlerBong*

            I would buy that excuse once, but only because I was once a new payroll person using an archaic system and know that it is very easy to make a mistake. Long story short, I did payroll for a company that had two divisions set up as separate divisions (e.g. Johnson Teapots and Johnson Tea Distributors). The company was cheap, so we used Excel to do payroll for 200+ people. Then I had to send a .txt file to the bank to tell them how much to deposit for each employee; it was the same file for both divisions, except I was supposed to go in and change a 1 to a 2 to indicate different account numbers. The first time I did payroll alone, I forgot to change the 1 to a 2–on Christmas Eve. I realized it immediately, but when I called the bank, the lady said there was nothing we could do about it. I frantically called every person with check-signing authority and managed to convince one to come in and write a check from one account to the other to cover the extra payroll. Deposited a check for $103,000 in the bank at 2:48 p.m. (bank closed at 3:00 for the holiday). Was so flustered that I drove back to the office with the vacuum tube from the bank drive-through still in my car. Turns out someone at the bank noticed my mistake and fixed it, but didn’t tell me, so we ended up overdrafting the account by about $100,000 (we only kept enough in it to cover payroll; we had different accounts for other expenses).

            So direct-deposit errors do happen, but usually not more than once or twice.

        3. neverjaunty*

          Big Boss is lying to you. Period. There is nothing weird or difficult about direct deposit. There is nothing about direct deposit that justifies their pretending to give you an ‘advance’ on a money they actually owe you. What’s going on is that your company can’t afford to make payroll.

          Please, for your own protection, search for ‘when employees must be paid’ and your state to find your state’s Department of Labor rules. Some states mandate that employees must be paid by a certain time (i.e. no late paychecks). And start job hunting immediately.

      1. Audiophile*

        I tried, the day it happened. Big Boss did a dance to avoid writing a check in the first place. Tried calling the bookkeeper to see if my direct deposit could be changed, bookkeeper said no, so the workaround was to give me an advance and then take it out of the next paycheck. Believe me, I’m not happy, this was there mistake and they should cover the fee(s). It’s clear that they’re not willing to do it and I don’t feel I can really fight them on it.

        1. Jadelyn*

          Get the hell out and then flay them alive on Glassdoor. Prospective employees should know they’re probably signing up to NOT get paid on time.

        2. Observer*

          Get out, and then report them to the DOL. Oh, and perhaps the IRS. Please keep your pay stubs so you can make sure that your taxes are being taken out and that you can prove that they were deducted.

          You see, I wouldn’t be surprised if your company isn’t depositing tax withholding in a timely fashion. And, if they keep them altogether, the IRS will come after you unless you can prove that you had good reason to believe that the money was paid. (You might still have to pay and go after your company for theft, but you won’t have to deal with all the other potential garbage.)

    6. Pari*

      im curious non profit or for profit? I have a theory that people at non profits put up with this more or longer. Every person I know who’s had this happen at a non profit sympathized more given the challenges of non profit funding and the cause.

      Obviously that’s your prerogative, but funding and payroll issues usually aren’t a temporary thing.

      Also, I wonder if the executive team has their checks delayed? I wouldn’t bet on it.

      1. zora*

        You have so many negative things to say about nonprofits that I think are really unfair, and paint an inaccurate picture of nonprofits.

        I have NEVER had a nonprofit mess up my payroll, and I have worked at many for many years. The only place I’ve ever worked that screwed up getting me my paycheck in time was a medium sized for-profit corporation.

        Any nonprofit I’ve worked for has been extremely transparent with staff about where we were financially and let people know at the first sign of trouble so that people could plan responsibly, and started laying down positions rather than get to the point that they struggled to meet payroll. And many nonprofits actually have a higher bar for financial responsibility because of foundations and government grant money and federal reporting responsibilities that come with nonprofit status. It’s much easier in a small for-profit business to hide the financial situation from employees, and take the money and run, when the owner has no accountability to anyone above them.

        1. Pari*

          I’m not suggesting it doesn’t happen less frequently at for profits, just that non profit employees may be more forgiving of financial difficulties because of the emotional tie to the cause. If you think that’s not true I’d love to hear why.

          1. H.C.*

            The better part of my career is in non-profits and I certainly wouldn’t be more forgiving of operational/administrative/financial mishaps like this, since that means the non-profit is not going to be effective in the causes they’re supposed to help.

          2. zora.dee*

            Actually, I think nonprofit employees are no more or less forgiving of a missed paycheck than for profit employees.

            The one difference I wouldn’t be surprised to see is that nonprofit employees tend to be making less money and have less of a financial buffer, so a missed paycheck would actually cause a lot more freaking out because people would be more in danger of not being able to pay bills. And the bosses would scramble to figure out a fix as quickly as possible because they know this could cause a major hardship for their staff.

            There’s a difference between being more forgiving of being paid less on the whole, and being forgiving of actually missing your rent because someone screwed up.

      2. Jessesgirl72*

        Have you ever read Dear Prudence? The most egregious and sensational workplace letters always came from people who worked at non profits. Either the employees themselves were more forgiving because of the “cause” or their employers expected them to put up with just about everything because of the “cause”

        Now maybe that was just the prejudice showing of who was choosing the letters, but it really was a theme!

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          This comes up a lot here, and I’ve paid a lot of attention to the breakdown of nonprofits vs. not-nonprofits in letters, and I can honestly say nonprofits aren’t over-represented in horror stories here. But people are very likely to say “I work for a nonprofit” whereas they don’t say “I work for a for-profit” (really, how often do you hear anyone say that?) so the nonprofit ones jump out because we hear it more.

          What ARE over-represented in horror stories here are small organizations, regardless of sector.

          1. Pwyll*

            Are they really over-represented, though? Small businesses are half of the US workforce, so it’d make sense that a ton of the stories come from them.

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              I don’t know if they’re over-represented in the sense of their relative share of employers in the U.S., but they are over-represented in terms of their share of stories here.

          2. Jessesgirl72*

            It also could just be more memorable to people, (and as you said, is mentioned specifically) so appears to happen more often than it actually does.
            I can remember two specific cases where either the employer or employee did mention the cause directly in why the employee should put up with whatever the bad situation was. A private sector company isn’t going to tell you outright that you have to suck it up for the sake of the teapots. The teapot is very rarely going to be a compelling reason.

      3. Audiophile*

        Pari, it is a nonprofit. I can’t say I agree with your theory. While I support this nonprofits mission and the missions of all the nonprofits I’ve worked for, this is a job not a volunteer role. I’m not willing to forgive missed payroll. The other payroll issues while not exactly minor, didn’t rise to this level.

        Everyone’s paychecks were delayed, in addition to the direct deposit. Which is why I’m skeptical that this was a truly a glitch.

        1. OhBehave*

          I’ve worked for a nonprofit for years and when they moved to direct deposit there wasn’t a glitch at all. It was a smooth transition. I’ve also NEVER had any issues with payroll.

        2. Observer*

          If it’s a non-profit, when you get out (and not before), please drop a line to the organizations that fund them. This is inexcusable.

    7. just another librarian*

      Your company should pay the fee absolutely. The one time it happened to me as a retail worker at a small shop, the store owner gave me it immediately after the bank called her. I didn’t even know it had happened yet until she handed me some cash and had me sign a receipt.

    8. Rebecca*

      Until you can get a new job, I would not set up anything to auto deduct from your bank account. I think it would be prudent moving forward to pay the bills yourself, on each website instead. That way, you can avoid future overdraft charges at least. I know when this happened to me, several times over the past 10 or so years, it’s been some sort of glitch and it wasn’t because the company didn’t have money. But it sounds like you’re having issues over a short period of time, so you need to take steps to protect yourself.

      1. Audiophile*

        I don’t have any of my bills set for autopay for this reason. I just happened to set up my phone bill to be paid that day, and had another bill that the bank processed the day before. So both bills hit around the same time, so far it seems the bank is only charging me one fee. I should be able to get that back. I’m more concerned about this becoming a regular issue. I’ve been told a few times that they have the money to pay people, but this certainly doesn’t make me confident that that statement is at all based in reality.

    9. Yetanotherjennifer*

      Ugh, I’m sorry this is happening to you. I used to work for a hotel management company with bouncing paychecks. My boss, the owner, would ride the float and make several telephone transfers during payday and the day after of just enough money to cover whatever checks had come in. If she missed, checks would bounce. She was very good about reimbursing the bounced check fees but meanwhile it was trashing my reputation. Plus, her bank would sometimes pull back a deposited check even a week after I deposited it, so I was never sure if a deposit would stay put. To protect my banking reputation I set up a savings account and started depositing my paychecks there (company was too small for direct deposit). Then I set up direct transfers from savings to checking to cover my bills. This takes a little extra money, but not that much, really. I was horribly underpaid and lived paycheck to paycheck and I managed to make it work. Honestly, I doubt I had more than $50 float at the beginning. Start with transferring only enough money to pay the bills due that payperiod. And do whatever you can to get one paycheck ahead as soon as possible. Then when a check bounces it only affects your savings account and not the checks you’ve written or the bills you need to pay next pay period. It’s actually a great way to save money fast. Hopefully your company won’t bounce another check soon so you’ll have time to build up your buffer.

    10. tink*

      Ugh, my partner had to deal with this a few times at his current, and it made things super stressful for us since I’m not working right now and we’re on a super tight budget. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with it.

  8. AyBeeCee*

    Any suggestions on getting certain coworkers to chat (as in instant message) less? There’s one who chatted me multiple times over the past few days. Sometimes it was because she had a question, and then it wasn’t a question I could answer so I advised her to send an email to [folder where she commonly sends emails]. Other times she’ll email [folder] and then immediately chat me. These are not for urgent requests. I think part of it is because she works remotely and is seeking more contact but it disrupts my workflow and frequently is something that would be better done through email anyway.

    1. ButFirstCoffee*

      Have you asked her to maybe try to send one email a day summarizing all her questions? You could make it sound like it will be easier for her, because she’ll have all the information in a place easy to go back to.

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      Could you just let her know that your chat window is often closed/hidden due to your workflow, and you’re better ripped to respond if she just emails?

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Can you set your chat status to busy, or put up an “away message” that says something to the effect of, “I’m at my desk but am focused on a project. Please email unless request is urgent”?

      Otherwise, I think your best bet is to just be direct: “Sarah, would you please route non-urgent requests like these to my inbox? I am trying to focus and the chats are distracting to me.”

      But truthfully, if you were online and set to “available” in the IM program, I would assume it would be no big deal to chat you for requests small, large, urgent, or not.

      1. Amber T*

        Yeah, we’re prohibited from discussing *actual* work on our messaging system – it’s supposed to be used for “do you have a few minutes to discuss the Teapot deal?” or “the file is saved in x.y.z folder,” (or, if you’re my boss’s boss, simply “please stop by” which is always heart attack inducing…), but talking about the Walking Dead, sharing recipes, or finding funny things on Amazon is probably what I use it for 50% of the time. But it’s also acknowledged that, if you don’t respond, you’re probably busy and will respond when you can and have time. You email or call if anything is time sensitive. I also have a coworker who flat out refuses to use the IM system because there are already too many ways to get in touch with her (her words), so just call her. Another coworker has his set to “busy” all the time, I’ll still message him with non urgent requests for FYIs, and he’ll still respond, but it let’s it be known he’s not one for small talk through IM.

        I think it’s fair to say “I don’t really like using the IM program, would you mind emailing me any future requests?”

      2. Wheezy Weasel*

        Setting chat statuses has worked well for me in the past, especially if I can tell a specific individual that I always have an up to date status, and I can hold myself to that promise. Some chat systems will integrate with your calendaring system and show you as ‘busy’ when you have a meeting, as well as ‘do not disturb’ when you are doing a screenshare via the message system. That was always helpful, as I could block out 2 hours a day where people wouldn’t expect an answer.

        Remote work is very hard if the company culture doesn’t agree on how to use an IM system effectively…the best I’ve seen is that the IM status is ‘The Word’ about whether a person is available, and if their status is green at 1am, they’re free to do work, if it is red, interrupt at your own risk.

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      I would start by telling her you would prefer her to email instead of chat for non-urgent requests. When she doesn’t listen, since you were already straightforward with her, just don’t chat back. When she chats you a non-urgent request, wait about an hour or two and email back (don’t chat back). Then if that doesn’t work, just stop responding altogether to non-urgent chat requests.

    6. Jayne*

      Is there a reason she feels she can reach out to you via chat? Maybe you told her once to let you know if you have any questions, and so she felt that was the best way? Figuring that out might help and then you can address it accordingly. “I know I told you in the past you can ask me any questions, but I’d really prefer if you e-mailed me instead, and then I’ll answer it when I have a moment.”

    7. Jules the First*

      I just explained that chat was for short, urgent requests that were holding up his workflow; or for letting me know that he’d just emailed a complicated question that was urgent and holding up his workflow, and that everything else needed to be emailed to me, with a timeline for when he needed to have a response. It took a few weeks for him to get the hang of it, but he’s now a superstar at only chatting when it’s appropriate. The other thing that helped was to explain to him that chatting me multiple times was just as inappropriate and annoying as sticking his head into my office every five minutes….

    8. Jennifer needs Thneeds*

      Stop replying *instantly*. If it’s not urgent, then it’s not urgent. Reply after an hour or so. Reset her expectations about how available you are, and make it more about giving her information and less about giving her a conversation. And then one or both of these things will probably happen:
      1. She’ll stop sending you IM’s all the time (because it’s not so fun)
      2. You’ll stop feeling picked-on by the IM’s (because you’ll be in charge of your time)

    9. Rubyrose*

      I like all of the suggestions above, but as a last resort, research your instant messaging options. Some (I’m thinking Lync) have an option where you can appear offline/unavailable to selected individuals. This prevents any messages from them to get to you.

  9. New rules grinch*

    So my company’s response to the new rules was to switch everyone single employee (excluding executives) from salaried to hourly and put a policy in place that says no overtime or working more than 40 hours a week (no exceptions). We have work cell phones so we could check emails and voice mails and do some work on weekends, holidays and after hours but the company is canceling them of November 25 and taking back the phones. As of December 1 there is no access to work outside of the office and no doing work on weekends/holidays/after hours. There will be set office hours and the same 30 minute lunch break for everyone. Days off must be taken in full or half days (3.5 hours or 7 hours) and there is no more flexible time where we could leave an hour early or stay an hour late etc. Our benefits and number of paid vacation and sick days are staying the same and no ones pay will be reduced. We checked and it’s all being done legally. I won’t lie, I’m not happy about the changes and I am looking elsewhere but the market is tough where I am? I know some people are happy about the new rules but I can’t be the only one who isn’t right?

    1. AshK413*

      That sounds so terrible and if I were in your position, I would also be looking for a new position. I value flexibility in my work schedule so I would be very unhappy in such a rigid environment.

    3. Isben Takes Tea*

      Yeah, it sounds legal but the most EMPLOYER-friendly / least EMPLOYEE-friendly way of implementing it.

      1. Observer*

        Actually, it’s not terribly employer friendly either. There are very few businesses today that benefit from this kind of rigidity and total containment of business into “standard” business hours.

        I wonder how long this will last.

    4. Mike C.*

      Your management folks are being absolutely nuts. Oh noes, they might have to pay out a sliver of OT every now and again to ensure that the business runs smoothly, what a horrible fate! The bits about only being able to take time off in half/full days and no more flex time are especially childish. I’m not going to lie here, I get a strong impression that they see hourly employees as trash and treat them accordingly.

      I’ll bet that once they find out that this doesn’t work, they’ll loosen up.

      1. ThatGirl*

        We’re only allowed full or half day PTOSo that doesn’t bother me, but no flex time would, if we need to leave early for an appointment we make the hour or whatever up.

        1. Not the Droid You Are Looking For*

          That’s what I don’t get…why is an employee shifting their time something that has to go away?

          1. OhNo*

            Seriously, the flex time isn’t going to hurt their bottom line. Why did they get rid of it? That’s such a punitive measure with no reasonable excuse behind it. What a pain!

      2. General Ginger*

        My office has done the same with PTO — you can only take it in half-day or full-day blocks, that’s it.

    5. Pwyll*

      I suppose the question is whether this is a knee-jerk change, and whether this will loosen up a bit once they’ve figured out how these new policy will actually work in practice. But it still sucks in the transition, I’m sorry.

      1. Sunflower*

        Agreed. I’m non-exempt and while I pretty much have to be here 9-5(1 hour lunch), flex time is totally fine every so often if you ask your boss.

        They might just be freaking out and unsure how to handle all this so they are defaulting to what is the easiest.

    6. seriouslywtf*

      And the annoying thing will be that the higher-ups are not going to stick with this like you are expected to. They are going to get to still take their one hour lunches and leave early when they need to. It is going to cause a lot of resentment. I imagine they are going to have to backpedal on at least some of these changes.

    7. The IT Manager*

      Yeah, that’s a huge pain. So very little freedom that will feel like step back for people used to managing their own schedule.

      I want to give your employer some kudos for implementing the new law legally unlike other places where they sound like they are planning to lie their way around it or ignore it. “Oh, a few minutes answering a work phone call doesn’t count” attitude.

      1. The IT Manager*

        OTOH, I’m not sure what it says about the rest of American companies if following the law is worth giving someone credit for.

        1. Gaia*

          I thought the same thing, “ooh, well at least they followed the law! Wait…what does that say about the state of employee/employer relations in this country?”

    8. Gaia*

      The thing that would really irk me here is the half and full days of PTO. That is super stingy. We require 1 hour blocks only because of the type of work we do, I cannot imagine telling someone that needs 1 hour that they have to take half a day!

      1. General Ginger*

        Being able to use PTO only in half- or full-day blocks is really common across employers in my area

        1. BAS*

          Same. If you’re out of the office for 3 hours or less, it’s considered flex time you can make up later in the week or just gets written off as we are mostly salaried. 3.5-6 hours out of the office are counted as a half day (4 hours) and 6.5+ are considered a full day (8).

    9. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

      This is happening to me as well; if I knew where you were located I would wonder if you were one of my co-workers. I started applying for new positions this week. It’s a shame because I love the work I do, my boss, my client contacts and my co-workers, but this is not the arrangement I accepted when I was hired and I’d not have taken the job if I could have predicted what would happen. I’ve only been her 18 months, so I feel like I’ve been bait and switched. I’m already underpaid for what I do, but the flexibility always balanced that out. Now that that’s going away I’m outta here as quickly as I can.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        My company is doing something similar to a lot of formerly exempt employees. Some of these people weren’t being paid at market rate, but were at least given flexibility, and now they’ll have to track their hours and will not be able to do flex or comp time. And since so many of these people will now be owed OT pay if they work over 40 hours, I can see a lot of divisions in my company outright banning anyone from working over 40, which is going to be a huge problem for people in my job family.

        I have a feeling this won’t last long and they’ll revert back in a year. Otherwise, a lot of work won’t get done, employee morale will tank, and high turnover will cut into division profits, which will in turn cut into division presidents’ bonuses.

    10. New rules grinch*

      Thanks everyone.

      The new rules and policies will apply to everyone (including management) except the executives who sit on the board. I doubt they will go back and losen things up because of all the money the (normally cheap) people in charge spent to get ready for the changes.

      They company is touting it as some great thing. They are saying it will stop burnout and promote work life balance because work is now only done at work and everyone will have evenings/weekends and holidays free and can’t be pressured into doing work at home or staying late/coming in early. That’s the rationale for the half day/full day off with no flexible time. They say that by making a policy that time off can only be a full day or in a block from 8:30 to 12:00 or 12:30 to 4:00 it eliminates spoken or unspoken pressure to come in early, stay late or rush to/from appointments. Without work cell phones management and coworkers can’t bother people outside of work. They say they are doing this to make our lives better and that the policy is there so there is no misunderstanding and it applies to everyone where management can’t get around it. Many of my coworkers are excited about it but I am not.

      1. OhNo*

        If they were really trying to promote work/life balance, you’d think they might have asked employees how they would like it to work rather than just issuing an edict from on high.

        Does your work ever run on strict deadlines? I have a feeling how they handle those under these new rules will be really telling. Will they conveniently okay overtime once they’re running up against an important deadline? Will they not okay it and then blame the employee for it not getting done on time (or worse, expect you to put in unpaid overtime)? Or will they say, “It’s okay if this project is running a little late, it’s more important that you keep to your regular work hours and maintain your work/life balance”?

        1. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

          I have a customer facing role, and I’m still waiting for my company to explain to me how I’m supposed to just hang up on a client when they call with a problem at the end of my work day. Also, my main client is in the habit of texting me on the weekends occasionally, and in the past I’ve always responded. Still waiting on direction if I a) Ignore the text or B) Tell the client she can’t do it anymore since I’m hourly now. I absolutely refuse to work off the clock, since they’re the ones forcing me to do this in the first place.

          I’ve already heard rumblings of “If you have to work overtime, it may be because you’re not working efficiently enough.” That in itself was enough to make my mind up to look elsewhere. I escaped an hourly job where my time was strictly micromanaged to take my current position, so I’ve seen how that witch hunt begins and ends. No thank you.

          1. Not my normal alias*

            Still waiting on direction if I a) Ignore the text or B) Tell the client she can’t do it anymore since I’m hourly now.

            If you’ve actually asked, and haven’t received an answer, it might be time to force their hand. “I’m going to assume you want me to not respond to client texts when I’m off the clock, since that would force me to go into overtime. If you prefer that I do answer them and keep track of my hours, please let me know.”

        2. New rules grinch*

          Because of a new process that was implemented this year we don’t really deal with things in real time so out deadlines are no longer urgent and can wait until the next day. So the company is using this as one of the justification for the changes.

      2. MissGirl*

        Other than the come in an hour early and leave, which they may loosen up on as time goes by, this actually sounds very fair. I love the idea of no weekends or evenings and leaving work at work.

        Change is frustrating but they’re being transparent and you’re getting paid for the work you do rather than extra hours. I would let it play out for few months before you make any big decisions. If it still doesn’t work then look for a new job.

      3. Ann O.*

        I have to admit, I’m a little perplexed why this isn’t the case. The lack of flex time would be a problem for me (and I don’t fully understand the rationale), but otherwise it seems like a good thing for preventing people from essentially providing free labor to the company or overworking.

        What do you see as the downside?

    11. Stellaaaaa*

      It seems odd to me that literally no one at your company got the bump to $47k (or whatever) that would enable them to keep being exempt. If the higher-ups were given the raises, it would still make the junior level employees feel better, like there’s room for growth and that management understands the needs of the business.

      But seriously, this is a business where salary taps out at $40k?

      1. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

        Mine taps out at $42K for my position, which is a high-level client service analytical role. I function much more like an Account Manager, but I’m told my employer refuses to classify us as such because we aren’t specifically held to sales goals.

    12. Pari*

      Why is this a bad thing? Less responsibility outside of normal hours and therefore more personal time for the same pay sounds like a positive

      1. beachlover*

        my thoughts exactly. they are not reducing your pay or benefits and you are working less hours. Which actually works out to more dollars per hour. Lets say you make 800 dollars a week as an exempt person, but you regularly work 50 hour per week = 16.00 per hour. Now you will be making $20.00 per hour. I guess the biggest drawback seems to be the restrictions on time off.

        1. Pari*

          I’m wondering if its rooted in feeling like its some sort of demotion with less responsibility and flexibility

          1. Gaara*

            I get that, but as a private practice lawyer, man what I wouldn’t give to literally not be able to work nights and weekends.

      2. Caroline*

        Sometimes people’s jobs don’t fall neatly into the 9-5 hours, and not being able to access work causes delays or lapses in communication and cause more stress.

        2. New rules grinch*

          Our work used to be this way but a new process was implemented this year which means that things are not dealt with in real time so deadlines are not urgent and waiting for another day will not have any affect. This new process would have happened without the new rules but the company is using it as one of the justifications for the change.

      3. OhNo*

        Except they’re also cutting flex time, which means employees who used that are likely going to be stuck using up more of their PTO for mundane things than they did before.

        The strict no overtime rules could also cut into some employees’ professional development or non-urgent projects. For example, where I work, there’s a set amount of stuff that needs to be done every day and you have to fit in your development around that. If I was suddenly banned from going even a minute over my end time, my opportunities to work on PD would plummet, since many of the resources I need are only available at work.

        1. New rules grinch*

          That would have been the case before, but since a new process was implemented this year we don’t deal with things in real time. So we no longer have urgent deadlines and things can wait another day. The company is using this new process as a justification for the change along with the new rules and they say that since we no longer have urgent deadlines they will expect the work level to be lower. The new process would have happened even without the new rules but in my opinion all the changes still bite.

      4. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

        When you are expected to deliver the same level work in 40 hours that used to take you 45-50, with no approval for overtime or plans to increase staff it tends to stress one out.

      5. H.C.*

        I think this sounds good in practice but will likely result in non-paid work time (& associated disgruntlement) in practice. Such as projects that won’t meet deadlines in the allotted time frames, or customers/clients/VIPs who call in with urgent requests near end of day.

    13. Caroline*

      That’s so weird. I’ve always been non-exempt, but I’m allowed to:

      work from home sometimes (pre-approved)
      take PTO by the hour
      take my lunch when I’m f’ing hungry, and for however long I want within reason (15 minutes or 60 minutes or whatever)
      shift my hours around in the day to accommodate a dentist appointment or whatever

      None of what your company is doing is something they are being “forced” to do by the new laws. Seems like they are resentful of this and are taking it out on the employees.

    14. Anna*

      Well, I think it’s hard to be happy about it when the company you work for misses the mark by such a wide margin in implementing it. I was watching a show last night where someone said they had a million ideas on how to do something and they happened to pick the worst one. This is what it sounds like they did.

    15. Princess Carolyn*

      I don’t blame you for being concerned, but you might not hate it as much as you think you will. It might actually help work-life balance, but that’s going to depend a lot on how much the company was previously relying on unpaid overtime. If everyone was regularly working 60 hours a week, they’ll need to scale back their projects or hire more people. If people were usually working right around 40 hours, you might find you enjoy fully disconnecting from work when you leave.

    16. Girasol*

      It sounds like they’re going overboard to be sure they don’t screw up. Change can be scary to those at the top too. I wonder what would happen if after a few weeks into the whole process, after nothing disastrous had come of the change and people were settling in okay, you asked to flex a day or asked how to handle an hour’s trip to the doctor. They might say “You know the rules!” but they might surprise you and be more reasonable than you expected. Can you afford to play along for a month or two and then test the waters?

      1. New rules grinch*

        Unfortunately not. They have spent a lot of time resources and money to switch and get everything ready for this. They went so far as to update the employee handbook and policies from 1996. We had a meeting about it and were told verbally and in writing that anything less than a block of 3.5 hours will be denied unless it is bereavement related/life and death and there will be NO exceptions. If anyone asks, they get a warning the first time and then after that they get pulled in to meet with their boss to explain the policy to them again.

    17. ScarletInTheLibrary*

      Something similar is happening with us. To cover weekend reference hours (which is basically two Saturdays a month and luckily not every Saturday and Sunday), we have a rotation. My position is not reference heavy (except for weekend reference), so I have to plan to make sure I have good desk projects ready when it’s my turn.

      As it is until the 1st, we accrue comp time. This is great because taking a random day off during the week can hurt my productivity. And I can pool my comp time and have more than 12 days of vacation a year. On December 1, no one can accrue comp time. Even the senior staff who make more than the threshold. Because that’s what’s “fair.” Since we are government, no one’s salary is a secret. And the government is not going to raise anyone’s salary to bump them up over the 47k threshold. Because that’s a waste of tax payer money.

      Another problem, for us, is that there will be a fight for who gets to take off what days. It’s already a fragile balance with the pages and it will compounded with all the professional staff having to do this too. The solution is to stretch the rotation, but that means no one is available to float (and assist in areas getting slammed).

      This policy will also hamper our ability to do special events and public outreach. Sometimes you don’t know if the VIPs will linger an extra hour or two. Or that tear down took longer than expected. If the event is Sunday through Thursday, then its fleasible to take the time off. But for Friday and Saturday events, nope. Due to making it fair, our patrons are going to feel the new law.

  10. Good_Intentions*

    Applying for jobs as contract ends

    Any tips on applying for positions as a current contract winds down?

    I have about three weeks left on my current contract and am uncertain if it will be renewed after Thanksgiving. Therefore, I am applying for jobs but find myself feeling awkward about writing “short-term contract” on my resume.

    Please share any advice or experience you have with this.

    Many thanks and have a great weekend!

    1. Camellia*

      I think it should be fine to put ‘short term contract’ on your resume; that’s exactly what this is, right? I’ve worked several contract positions and that has always worked for me.

    2. Pwyll*

      You should absolutely put that it’s a contract on your resume. When I interviewed people, I never held contract jobs as “job hopping” because they’re designed to work that way. And working on contract can be great experience.

    3. Anna*

      I have a contract position I list on my resume because it directly relates to the work I’m looking for. I list it as Interim Person Who Does Things, or Person Who Does Things – Interim. Because I was. I was there to bridge a gap while they changed some things around in the department.

    4. msmorlowe*

      ‘Fixed-term contract’ could also work, particularly if you’ve been there a good few months and don’t particularly want to call your time there ‘short’. It can also imply (without you having to spell it out) that there wasn’t really an option of the contract being extended–don’t know if that’s something that applies in your case, or if it’s something that you want to imply, but it does mean you could get out of answering “and was there a reason it wasn’t extended?” if that’s likely to come up.

    5. Golden Lioness*

      I have 2 jobs as a contractor on my resume. I put “contract” right next to the title and I have never been questioned or looked at negatively. Do it on your resume, and managers will understand this.

    6. Jennifer needs contract Thneeds*

      I’ve been working contracts for years. I don’t love it, but that’s life. My jobs are always listed as contract positions. Often I’ll put the start and end dates, and then directly under that, I put “7-month contract” (or however long), just to spell things out.

      Do be aware that job-hunts in the 4th quarter can be hard. Lots of places might be interviewing but won’t have projects start until the new year. Lots of places can’t even interview until the new year. (This might be endemic to my field and usual industry, dunno.) Oh, but again, this is for contracting and if you’re looking for permanent jobs it might be a whole ‘nother ball of wax.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        4th quarter hiring is actually pretty easy in my field (risk management/insurance) – in fact, my company has a ton of open positions they’re currently recruiting for. But these are also non-contract, permanent positions.

    7. Chaordic One*

      Don’t feel awkward about writing “short-term” or “fixed-term contract” on your resume.

      Personally, I prefer using the words, “fixed-term,” but it really doesn’t matter and it avoids the “job-hopping” impression.

    8. Mander*

      My field is almost entirely short term contract based. Everyone who knows anything about the work I do knows this, so I don’t worry about it at all.

  11. TJ*

    My department used to be just me and my manager. But as our (small) company grows, we’re hiring more people in my department and I’m starting to feel less actively involved in decision-making and more like I’m just part of a machine churning out projects.

    I still really like a lot of the aspects of my job, though — I just miss feeling more … important, I guess. Is there something I could suggest to my manager that would make me feel more involved again? Or am I stuck with this from now on?

    1. Sunflower*

      Can you ask to take on some of your manager’s work? I would think you being the most seasoned in your department would let you take on some projects that new people(possibly even more experienced, yet new) could not.

    2. Purest Green*

      It might help if you tell your boss what’s going on – not the churning out projects part, but the desire to be more involved in decision making.

      And if it would make sense, you might also approach your manager about a promotion to a lead/senior/coordinator role where you’re automatically part of the decision-making process.

    3. Happy in My Job, But I Could Move Up*

      another thing you could suggest taking on is codification of best practices.

      (this “cog in the wheel” thing is coming up in my job, and I’m not looking forward to it, at all!)

  12. Desi*

    I got the job!!!! So excited!

    Now nervous about telling my boss I’m leaving, but I’m SO. FREAKING. HAPPY!

    2. Desi*

      Not sure why I’m nervous though. They’ve shown they don’t value me.. My exit interview is going to be delightful :)

      1. Carmen Sandieago*

        I’m much in the same boat, I landed a new job and now working my notice, my boss is being super strange about the whole thing. Including criticising my letter of resignation and other strangeness.

      2. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

        Because it’s like a breakup. Breakups are awkward.
        You’ll be fine. And once it’s done, it’s done.
        Congrats!

    7. Cass*

      Congratulations!! And good luck with the resignation. (I honestly wrote out a little script for myself to somewhat-memorize when I did.)

    8. Golden Lioness*

      Congratulations! Once you go ahead and tell then you quit you will no longer be nervous. Best of luck!

  13. Editor Lady*

    I’m in a bit of a conundrum. I received a verbal job offer two weeks ago, and informally accepted it. The new company has been emphatic that I shouldn’t quit my job etc. until I receive the formal, written offer (no way I would; I’ve read the horror stories here). Unfortunately, the formal offer process is brand new and apparently taking forrrrreverrrrrr. It’s now looking like the job offer may be coming next week while I’m on vacation. Would it be better to come in on one of my vacation days to give notice so my boss has more time to plan? Or just give my notice on the 14th, saying my last day is the 25th? Should I give my boss a heads up today, even without the formal offer?

    Side question—I’m also going to be leaving my current company in a bind. We’re already short a person and I’m supposed to be training the new person we hire. (Our training is long, complicated, and a huge time suck because what we do is so complex. 100% delighted to be leaving it behind.) They are absolutely not going to have the bandwidth to train two new people. I know it’s not my problem, but I would love some advice on dealing with the inevitable guilt trip from my manager on this topic. I do already feel a bit guilty because I’ve been acting as though I will continue to be here forever when I know I am totally leaving.

    1. ButFirstCoffee*

      Don’t feel guilty because you are doing what’s best for you. I would say still wait for the formal offer. If coming in one of your vacation dates is easy because you are local, it would certainly be nice on your end to make sure it is the 2 weeks and it might help alleviate any guilt tripping they do on you, since you definitely don’t have to do that!

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      Could you offer to record videos (like a WebEx meeting of just you talking and “sharing” your screen) as a training resource?

      1. Editor Lady*

        We actually already have a bunch of BrainShark videos and exercises and other resources to make the training process a bit easier on the trainer (and hopefully the trainee as well). We just have a ridiculous amount of turnover for new hires (they get fired for not learning fast enough), and reviewing their work is the biggest time suck.

        1. Isben Takes Tea*

          Well in that case I wouldn’t feel guilty, since it’s not so much a “I’m taking away valuable institutional knowledge at an important juncture” as just not being a (trained) warm body.

    3. Isben Takes Tea*

      Also, if NewJob is taking forever to get you the formal offer, it’s reasonable to expect to push your start date back to give OldJob the proper notice…I wouldn’t interrupt your vacation unless absolutely necessary.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        +1. Don’t come in on your vacation, and do give a full two weeks. If new company is dragging the process out they should be willing to wait a few days more.

    4. Persephone Mulberry*

      If the offer finally comes while you’re on vacation, I would tell the new company that you plan to give two weeks notice when you get back from your vacation. They’ve dragged it out this long; a few extra days on your end won’t kill them.

      1. my two cents*

        yep – agreed. NewJob should at least be readied to be flexible on the start date, especially knowing the formal offer has been delayed a bit.

      3. Joseph*

        Yes. In fact, given that they were explicit about telling you not to quit your current job yet (a fair thing to say), it’s likely that they’re reasonable enough that they won’t blink an eye when you ask for a few extra days. Also, if you happen to be in the US, nobody is going to think twice about your request for a few extra days since it’s super common for people to be in and out around Thanksgiving.

    5. Ella*

      I feel like this stuff happens all the time. If you really feel like you want to let your company know while you’re on vacation, then you can call them. But I wouldn’t cut short your vacation. It’s just part of business– the best time for you to leave may not always be the best for the company, but it’s not personal.

    6. my two cents*

      Since NewJob has already acknowledged that you should wait for the offer, and also that their offer is taking longer than expected, you could ask NewJob if you can give OldJob a little additional notice and push out your start date with NewJob by a week should OldJob be super-mad about you leaving. But really, Allison says it all of the time because it’s really true – there’s no ‘good time’ to leave a job.

      Also, be sure to document any processes you can, even if it’s just spinning out a word doc of various checklist items or a doc detailing where any additional docs/reports/software/demos might be hiding on the server.

    7. Kyrielle*

      Yeah, if the offer comes in during your vacation, I’d explain that to NewCompany and ask if you can set your start date accordingly to give two weeks’ notice.

      As far as leaving your company in a bind, document, document everything you can that isn’t already, do your best you can in the time available (this does NOT mean working holidays or late nights – just the best you can with the available work time)…and then it’s on them.

    8. Jessesgirl72*

      Don’t give notice or hint of notice until you get the formal letter!

      If you are able to give notice when it comes through, then that would be the nice thing to do. If it would inconvenience you, slightly less than 2 weeks notice will just have to do.

      My husband’s now former manager gave less than a week’s notice! Talk about putting them in a bind!

      Don’t feel guilty. You are doing the best you can, and their problems are not your problems. You can be sympathetic to their plight, but don’t let them put that on you.

    9. Golden Lioness*

      Don’t feel guilty! You have to do what’s best for yourself. You don’t have to come in to give notice (though it would be nice) You can call your boss and immediately send an e-mail. Another option is to ask your new employer if they’ll allow you and extra week so you can give the full 2 weeks notice.

    10. H.C.*

      Don’t worry about interrupting your vacation, if they are taking a while to produce a written offer – you also have a bit more leeway in providing your response too (also, you should factor in some time for negotiation too). Wait until your written offer comes, agree upon a start date (& everything else), then give notice to your current employer.

      RE: leaving current job, if you can swing it – maybe give a more generous notice date? But if you can’t, just tell your manager that you’ll do everything possible to 1) complete existing tasks and 2) provide documentation on projects still in-progress when you leave. But like AAM often said, employers deal with this all the time (& those who can’t are typically dysfunctional in other ways too).

      Enjoy your vacay!

    11. Oryx*

      Don’t say anything until you have the formal offer.

      I’ve had this happen before, where a formal job offer came in while I was on vacation (I faxed my letter back using the machine at the hotel!). I just came back like normal and put my two weeks in the day of my return. I felt a little awkward with the timing (“sooooo I know I just got back from vacation…”) but my supervisor was very understanding.

    12. Happy in My Job, But I Could Move Up*

      If they can wait long enough to get that offer-letter process going, they can wait a half week so that you can give 2 weeks notice on a Monday.

  14. Amy the Rev*

    I’ve signed up with a Temp Agency while I look for an ordainable call (aka a full time job as a Reverend). It’s not ideal, but it covers my rent, and there’s a food pantry near me so groceries are all set. One of the reasons I’ve taken up temping is that I needed something in a high-turnover industry, since getting a job in my field is my top priority, and openings are too few-and-far-between to commit a year in an entry-level position somewhere and postpone my search. In other words, I need to be able to submit my profile to any opening that comes up, be it in a week or a month or a year, but I don’t want to have to burn a bridge in the process.

    My current temp assignment is awesome, and the organization has extended my placement a few times, but my last day is finally approaching. The Temp Agency just told me about a new assignment that would begin 2 weeks after my current one ends (which will be financially tough but my savings will just cover the gap), and would last 3 months, with a dollar-per-hour increase to my wage.

    The only caveat is that I currently have a (very strong) lead on a Minister position, and I have no idea what the church’s timeline is going to be like for hiring (sometimes all the steps happen over the course of 2 weeks, sometimes 3 months, etc.). The Temping Agency told me that they would need a “firm 3 month commitment” for the new assignment, since I’d be filling in for someone’s maternity leave. I feel like I can’t in good conscience give a 3 month commitment when it’s very possible that I might need to leave before then, but at the same time I’m terrified of turning it down and then not finding another assignment soon enough and running out of my savings.

    My instinct is that it would be Not OK if I were to give that commitment and then end up leaving after 2 months, for example, but at the same time, I have zero loyalty to this Temping Agency because they misrepresented their benefits as well as their wage scale. Is this one of those situations where I do the Ethical Thing that might hurt me in the short term but leave my conscience clear, or is this something where ethics don’t even come into play and I’m making it more of a moral issue than it really is (occupational hazard in my field)?

    1. AshK413*

      Can you ask the hiring committee of the Minister position about their anticipated timeline? I know timelines aren’t set in stone but it could give you a rough idea of what to expect so you can make a more informed decision about what to do.
      Or perhaps you can fully commit to the three months that the temp position requires and negotiate for a later start date for the Minister position if offered. I’m not sure if that’s reasonable for your field but I just wanted to throw it out there.

    2. JK*

      Is it possible to check in with your contact for the Minister position, and ask about their hiring timeline?

    3. Pwyll*

      I think this one is going to depend on the contract language (and I’m not even talking legally, but ethically). Are they also providing that they will absolutely not let you go during your 3 month commitment, or can you be let go prior to that time for any reason? I’m not a big fan of employment “commitments” like this that are one-sided. If you’re at-will for them, they should be at-will for you, and you should not feel bad about resigning should a permanent position come available. If they include in writing that you’ll only be let go for “cause”, that makes this murkier ethically, but even then sometimes you have to singe the bridge a bit to get to the other side.

    4. Lily Rowan*

      I don’t know a ton about church hiring timelines, but I have seen churches wait a looong time for a new pastor to start. So I feel like you’re probably in the clear to commit to the three months — even if you got the call quickly, you should be able to postpone your start date, I would think.

      Good luck!

      1. zora*

        yeah, this, too. The last time my parents’ church hired a new minister they waited at least 4 months after they offered the position for the person to start. If you get the offer but you feel like it would really be a hardship for the company you are temping for, ask if you can finish your commitment before you start at the church. If it’s only 1 or 2 months, they can probably get by with lay services for a bit while they wait for you.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        I agree that the church will wait for you.

        You might be able to ask them about their timeline, and explain your setting.

    5. YouDontKnowMe*

      how can you give a “firm 3 month commitment” to a job you’re not sure would be a good fit. If something better comes up then take it. I feel like they’re asking for the commitment because it will make their agency look good if you stay the whole 3 months. Im sure that employer wouldn’t think twice about keeping you on if you aren’t working out.

    6. not so super-visor*

      We use a lot of temps here, so we’ve gotten pretty used to temps leaving us, but it the company only uses temps to cover maternity leave or extended leaves, I could understand how that might put them in a bind. Your temp agency, however, should be extremely used to this kind of thing, and remember, you’re actually the temp agency’s employee. You won’t be the first temp that’s ever quit on them. I would say to take the job unless you think that you would need to leave within the first couple of weeks. When you’re interviewing for the Rev position, you can always try to feel out how soon they would need you.

    7. zora*

      I wouldn’t worry about it, take the job, say “I definitely plan to be here for 3 months” (because you do now), and if you get the Minister position, feel free to give a little bit of notice and leave (1-2 weeks)

      They are a temp agency. They have a whole bunch of temps. They will find someone to take over, and everyone will deal. This is what they do.

      Good luck on both jobs!!

      1. Sunflower*

        I agree. Temp agencies are used to dealing with this and part of the reason the company is using one, is because they are looking for someone to do a job that they don’t need to be trained on.

      2. zora*

        If you want to be extra super duper nice to make up for possibly leaving before the 3 months are up, start some hard-core documenting on your first day. Especially if the person on mat leave hasn’t left good instructions.

        Make really solid directions and check lists of everything that the position does, and where all relevant information is. Then if you do have to leave early, you have all of that ready to hand off to the next temp and they can hit the ground running. I did this when I had to leave a temp job a few weeks before the permanent replacement was coming on, and I have heard from my former boss that all of my documentation is still being used regularly a year later. That might make you feel better about leaving early.

        2. I Heart Oregon*

          Super good idea. Be the bigger person and the best temp they’ve had. You never know down the road what could happen or who there knows who, and it could benefit you.

    8. Jenbug*

      As someone who works in the office for a Temp Agency, the most likely thing that would happen if you decided to end your 3 month assignment early is that they would tell you they couldn’t assign you again. If you’re not going to want/need to rely on them in the future, that’s a risk you can take.

      But sometimes assignments don’t work out for a variety of reasons and we often have to replace people so I would imagine even though they’re asking for a “firm 3 month commitment” they are aware that something could happen.

    9. Jessesgirl72*

      There is often some leeway about start dates for Minister positions- No place you’d really want to work for would expect you to leave a church right before Christmas or Easter, for instance. Likewise, they should be glad to postpone a start date for someone who shows they are committed to living up to all their promises.

      But in the end, remember just Who you are representing here. The Temp Agency’s dishonesty doesn’t justify your own, especially when you’re about to start out as a Person of God. And the company where you’re being placed doesn’t deserve it either! You know what the rules are- don’t try to wiggle out of them. :) Things always go smoother if you do the right thing.

    10. Golden Lioness*

      I would both take the job and ask the committee for their timeline (like most comments have already said). Chances are with how long their hiring takes you will be able to work the full 3 months. If you get an offer in the 2nd month, for example, could you ask about a 4 week start date so you can finish up ‘all current project?” I know this may not be possible, but just a thought.

      Hope you get the minister job soon!

    11. General Ginger*

      In my experience with temp agencies, they may not be willing to use you again if you have to end an assignment early, but they do deal with having to find replacements on a regular basis, and most likely will have contingencies in place. And (like the others are saying), chances are that the hiring process may take long enough that you could reasonably give the church a start date that would be after the temp job ends.

      I really hope you hear about the Minister position soon! Good luck!

  15. Nobody*

    I have a friend (former coworker) whose employer, a chocolate teapot company, is going out of business. He has a new job lined up, but since his employer was the only teapot company in the area, he has to move halfway across the country for the new job. The new job is at a vanilla teapot company, the same title as his current job, with slightly higher pay and similar benefits.

    When he told me about the new job, I congratulated him and told him I am looking forward to talking vanilla teapots with him (I started my career in vanilla teapots before going to a chocolate teapot company). He proceeded to complain bitterly about everything that sucks about the new job. He hates the location, his kids are going to hate changing schools, he doesn’t know anything about vanilla teapots, etc. The only positive thing he had to say about this job is that it’s better than being unemployed.

    I’m sad that he feels so negatively about the new job. I feel terrible for him that he is losing his current job through no fault of his own, and I know from my own experience how hard it is to move to another region for a job, but I wish he could find some reason to be excited about the new job. He’s a great guy and normally very personable, but I’m afraid if he brings this negativity to his new job, he could make a bad impression.

    I’m trying to decide if I should say something to him about this, or if this is just one of those situations where being a good friend means letting him vent and saying, “Sorry, that really sucks.” I’m not sure how he would take it, especially coming from me because I’m definitely a glass-half-empty type of person (then again, I think it says something if even I think he is being too negative about this). Should I say something, and if so, how do I put it so as not to piss him off? Should I try to talk up vanilla teapots? Or should I just hope that he gets it out of his system by venting to me?

    1. Blue Anne*

      I had a boyfriend once who, when I was venting, had a habit of asking (very genuinely) “Do you want advice, or sympathy?” and then sticking with what I told him I wanted.

      It was the most wonderful thing ever. Because a lot of the time I just needed to vent and advice would have been annoying, but sometimes I was open to advice even if I didn’t like hearing it. And it was great to be able to straight-up say “I need this/I won’t react well to that.”

      It might be worth just asking him if he wants some advice along with the supportive ear.

      1. msmorlowe*

        It’s something that I actually got into the habit of prefacing any venting with: initially with my father, but now I do it with nearly everyone. I was getting fed up of venting in order to feel better only to be met with “Why don’t you just _____ ?”, so now I start off with “Just venting–all I need you to do is make appropriate noises” or “So, I’m looking for advice about ______”.

        1. SJ*

          I need to do this with my mother. I love her dearly, but she’s a Problem Solver, so I always get advice when I just want sympathy.

      2. MoinMoin*

        My first thought was, “How popular could a radio station be if all they do is play ‘Yohoho and a bottle of rum?”
        That’s an excellent phrase and I’m going to use that.

        1. MoinMoin*

          ….And disregard that first line, it was a response to another comment that I decided was stupid and shouldn’t post. Yet here we are, smdh

          2. aeldest*

            I was trying so hard to figure out what it meant! And it didn’t help that I misread “yohoho” as “yoohoo”, as in the chocolate flavored beverage.

            “Is this about not giving the same advice to everyone, because everyone’s situations are different? Where does the Yoohoo come in? Why on earth would you mix it with rum? That sounds terrible. Is it about not giving the same terrible advice to everyone? Why is a radio station giving out awful mixed drinks? What is the radio station in this metaphor?”

            I figured you were just way smarter than me or something. I think this is how cults form.

            2. Not So NewReader*

              “I figured you were just way smarter than me or something. I think this is how cults form.”

              That’s right! lol.

            3. Mander*

              Now I’m wondering how bad yoohoo and rum might actually be. Maybe blended into a hard shake with some ice cream it wouldn’t be too bad?

      3. Golden Lioness*

        I love that! I think even when people want advice, offering sympathy first anyway is never amiss, no?

    2. Caroline*

      Change is hard for some people, and a lot of his negativity probably is coming from stress and anxiety. Hopefully, all will work out with him–he will grow to like the new location, the kids will like their schools, he will turn out to be a vanilla teapot wizard.

      But you don’t know for sure that that is all going to happen. I’d just try to listen and sympathize while at the same time wishing him the best.

      In my experience, no one wants to be talked out of a feeling they are having.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        This is all very true, but I know someone who got fired a mere 7 weeks after relocating 500 miles, because their employer felt they were so negative about the location and job.

        The OP is right that his attitude could make things really bad!

        1. Natalie*

          Still, that’s his risk to take and fallout to deal with. Unless they are fairly close, then it might be worth a broader “hey, is everything going okay?” kind of conversation.

          1. Jessesgirl72*

            The OP describes him as a friend, so that probably mean they are more than “Fairly” close.

          2. So Very Anonymous*

            Also, there can be a difference between what someone says/conveys to a friend and what they say/convey at work.

    3. neverjaunty*

      In addition to Blue Anne’s excellent advice, you might try telling him ‘you’re coming across as a lot more negative than you probably mean to’.

  16. Hermione*

    Been having major motivation/concentration problems the past few months, with personal projects, work, and my grad class – to the point of having to create checklists for even minimal tasks because I’m so absent-minded I’m not sure whether I’ve done things or just started to. My plan this weekend is to stock up on some good-food groceries and start hitting the gym more regularly. Anybody have any other tips? Essential things are getting done, but only the bare minimum, and I want to do better.

    1. seriouslywtf*

      This usually happens to me when my sleep has not been very good. I do progressive muscle relaxation + melatonin before bed and it helps my sleep be much more restful. Hope that helps!

    2. Manders*

      I use Habitica for this. It turns your to do list into a cute little game. After playing for a while, I didn’t have to check my list before doing every little daily task because I’d successfully created new habits.

      Seconding the advice to make sure you’re getting enough sleep. And if you can, talk to a doctor about vitamin deficiencies, since there are quite a few that can cause this kind of brain fog.

    3. Caroline*

      Do you take any medications? I ask because I went through this a couple of years ago and it turned out that I’d started having a bad reaction to a medication I’d been taking, even though I’d been taking it for a while already. When I checked into it, it was a documented side effect.

    4. Jessesgirl72*

      Vitamin D supplements! With the shorter days, and a busy schedule that probably doesn’t allow you to get much sunshine even in summer, I bet you could use some extra Vitamin D. It makes a huge difference to my mood- even when I try to deny it does.

    5. Girasol*

      If you’re trying to retool your life both concentration-wise and health-wise at once, try a peek at Marks Daily Apple blog. He advocates a paleo-type diet but only as part of a realistic whole-life approach to fitness, health, and attitude. He strikes a good balance between motivating encouragement and reminders of when to cut oneself some slack. You might find some useful ideas there.

    6. anonderella*

      I find I’m more focused when I have a clear plan for my future goals (short/long-term) that I’m on top of. But then again, I tend to make a plan and go over it in EXCRUCIATING detail.. and then again… and then again….. and.. again….
      ……………..and again. Being my sounding board is a genuine skill.
      Seriously though, I like to be able to recite it, feel comfortable about it, and then put the whole thing aside for a congratulatory drink/after-thinking activity until Action #1. Making a plan is just as important (I mean generally, not in every instance) as implementing it; I find when I have one, I can relax more of the reflexes that are trying to kick in to keep me ‘on the path’.

      So, if you’re the kind of person who can endure this process, I really advocate just fitting out a plan for whatever you’re trying to get done (mine is currently figuring out what I’d like to go back to school for, if it’s actually going to be helpful to my career goals, etc; which means a lot of figuring with other components, like the SO’s career goals), and charting it out in a way that makes sense to you (again, mine is on graph paper with *every* week charted and visible up to my current, perceived, endgoal date. Somehow this really helps me; I think it’s (well, firstly I am a crazily visual-thinking person) bc I am able to place appropriate pressure on myself to finish a goal, as I can look to the chart to see what I have going on project-wise, vacation-wise (do I need a sick day to reconvene with the Executive Office of Me? or can I wait until my next scheduled PTO day?), and if, if I am feeling off/badly, I can decide how much downtime and self-care I have room for in my schedule, both at work and at home (keep in mind, my chart goes through the end of next May, it’s not just a month or two, though that may be sufficient for your own goals).
      Anyway, the point of the chart is to ensure I’m fitting in the right amounts of productivity **and** relaxation. I have manic/depressive disorder, and I am in a client-facing role 100% of the time at my job (front desk), and that kind of constant vigilance can be very draining; having a chart like this (that I can see & refer to – very important to me personally) is really what I need sometimes to think long-range, and pull myself out of momentary thinking. I don’t keep it inside work, for fear of someone misinterpreting my career goals, but I’ve pulled it out in the car and it gives me some serenity. On days that it doesn’t, I know I’m overthinking/feeling off, and I remind myself to count on what I’ve charted/count on myself who was in a place to think forwardly and calmly – and that helps immensely.

      Also, I find this approach works because it helps me realize when I’m overthinking things – if I’m putting too much detail on the chart, I can step back and reevaluate what those items mean to me, how reflexive I am with them (do they deserve these written reminders?), and conversely whether something needs more attention. I say this because if you do try this exercise, and find yourself getting bogged down in detail, it’s still telling you something about how you think – thus to me, it’s still working : )

  17. Allison*

    Welp, after over two and a half years contracting with my current company, I was finally told that this is it, my contract is up at the end of the year and it’s not getting renewed. My boss had it on her radar to get me converted, but the higher ups had other ideas. So now I have two months.

    I’m not totally freaking out yet! Last time this happened it only took me about a month to find a new job, so I won’t let myself go into full panic mode until at least early December :) I’ve reached out to my network, and I’ve applied to some promising jobs already, both in the field I work in now and the field I’d like to work in, if I could make it happen.

    And I’m actually a little relieved, and excited about this push to work somewhere else. Some of my coworkers have been driving me crazy, and I haven’t had a day of paid vacation in over 3 years. I would LOVE a chance to work as a full-time employee with full benefits for a change.

    My one question is this: my boss was a little vague about why I wasn’t getting renewed. Her explanation was it was budget-related, the department head decided they didn’t need me and the money they were spending on my contract could be better spent on resources for the team. I’m planning to just tell employers my contract is up at the end of the year, but if they ask why it’s not getting renewed, what’s the best thing to tell them?

    1. seriouslywtf*

      I mean, if she said it was budget-related it’s not at all wrong to relay that to employers (though I doubt they will ask, contracts are not renewed for all sorts of reasons and it’s hardly ever because the employee was bad).

      1. Allison*

        A part of me does want to check in with my manager to make sure this isn’t my fault. I mean, what’s done is done and I would think they would talk to me if I was doing something wrong or my performance wasn’t up to par, but if there’s something I need to work on, I want to know about it! It amazes me how often people expect me to read their minds and “just know” when there’s a problem.

        1. Emi*

          It sounds to me like you’re overthinking this, unless it’s way out of character for her to be “a little vague.” You could ask her if she has any feedback for you, but if you don’t have evidence to the contrary, it probably is just the budget.

      2. Jessesgirl72*

        And the reason a contract isn’t renewed is almost always budget related!

        The rules about contractors have changed in the US as well, and the IRS is coming down on companies that keep the same position filled by the same contractor for multiple years. My company did away entirely with contractors for awhile because of that, and thought they could get away without converting the ones who had worked there for a decade or more.

        Guess how well that worked out for them?

        1. Allison*

          I honestly think it’s scummy they kept me as a contractor for this long. They payroll me through a 3rd party so I’m technically employed with someone, and I can get healthcare through them, so it’s all technically legal, but it seems wrong that I’m here longer than most of my coworkers, but I don’t get a single day of paid vacation and they get to take as much as they want, plus other perks only offered to company employees. Not cool. Honestly, if they were renewing my contract but telling me there was no plan to convert me in 2017 I’d probably still get on an active job hunt.

    2. she was a fast machine*

      Maybe something boilerplate about how they were deciding to take the position/department in a different direction? Or, from what it sounds like, simply that your position doesn’t exist anymore so you could say something like they were phasing out your position?

    3. Karanda Baywood*

      I don’t think anyone would ask why your contract wasn’t renewed; but if they do, just say you weren’t privy to the decision or say something vague about budgets.

    4. Golden Lioness*

      You are overthinking this. I have a couple of contractor jobs on my resume and when I tell interviewers I left because the contract was up I was never asked why it wasn’t renewed. That’s the advantage of contract work for employers, it’s temporary, for as long as they need you and they can end the contract at any time. Everybody knows this and they will not question it. If they did, that would be a red flag about the interviewer/employer for me.

    5. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      This happened to me this year, although it came down apparently to they wanted to hire “people like themselves” and since I didn’t have the same background and I was hired in by someone else,out I went (along with other people in a complete team purge). I was fully expecting to be converted, so it was somewhat of a shock. But whatever, I’ve moved on since.

      I essentially spun my experience in a positive way – that the contract had initially been for X months, had been renewed twice due to success in certain projects, and while it would have been great to stay, ultimately the department was being taken in a different direction from when I started and it was no longer a fit for both sides. All of this is true, but it helps spin it in a positive manner, rather than making it look like you couldn’t cut it enough to be made a full offer (yeah, I know how that feels). You can also follow on from there to talk about your successes and hopefully telegraph to the interviewer that yes, the old company was a bunch of morons for not hiring you :)

    6. Happy in My Job, But I Could Move Up*

      I would NEVER ask someone why their contract wasn’t renewed. Because that’s the entire point of a contract–that it will end. That there’s only enough work, or enough money, for a set time.

      If someone said to me, “I was working for Zenon and my contract ended,” I’d say, “Oh.”

      If someone does say, “Why wasn’t it renewed?” you just say, “They didn’t have the budget” or “the job ended.”

    7. Mander*

      Your field is probably different but in mine almost everything is tied to specific projects, and field staff usually only have contracts for the length of that project. Sometimes new work comes up and you get extended, but you can’t count on it. I wouldn’t think it at all strange if someone told me they left a job because their contract ended and it wouldn’t even occur to me to ask why it wasn’t renewed.

  18. Fawn*

    I’m struggling with desktop (as in computer screen) organization. I’m one of those people who saves everything to their desktop and just scans over it when I’m looking for something, but it’s not working anymore – too many projects, too many years. I’d love to have a filing system that makes sense, but it’s so counter to the way I operate that I don’t know where to start! Any tips from the highly organized among you?

    1. PanicAttack*

      I use Google Drive – I have it downloaded to my desktop so I can easily save things to the folders and subfolders I’ve created. Then, I can also access it from my phone and whatever computer I’m on. It’s super easy to just save attachments from emails as well, print emails as PDFs and save them there.

      1. Fawn*

        Ohhh, something I should have mentioned – anything Cloud is a no go for my job. We deal with sensitive information.

    2. J*

      My last couple of gigs have been the kind of jobs where every year looks roughly the same. The same kinds of projects come up at roughly the same time of year, year after year after year. My top level for digital filing is usually year, then by project, and then by element of the project.

      So, I’d have a FY2017 file with folders for Project A and Project B. Each project folder would have a folder for drafts, proofs, final versions, data, vendor contracts, etc. Then folders below that, if necessary.

      I do work out of a folder on my desktop with files that I’m currently working on. It makes them easy to find in a pinch without having to dig through a folder tree. At the end of the week, I go through my inbox and the active files folder to file everything appropriately.

      1. De Minimis*

        I’ve had mixed success with having folders on my desktop—one for my HR related work, one for items related to student workers, one for stuff related to the annual audit.

        I also have one labelled “Old projects” where I try to put things that I no longer need, but I can’t keep up with it.
        The desktop is still cluttered but I’m good on the things where I’ve created subfolders [though they are now getting too hard to manage–may need to create a subfolder for “last year’s HR…”]

        1. J*

          I can’t handle desktop clutter so I have one folder for anything in progress, and the rest of my structure is on our shared drive (which is backed up and properly secured).

        2. TootsNYC*

          I’m a big fan of creating a place to put “Stuff I don’t think I need but don’t want to throw away.” Physically in my house; in my home office filing system; and on my computer.

          I have a desktop file labeled *temp (so that it shows up at the top of the list when I’m choosing where to store stuff). I put things in there that I don’t think I’ll need for more than a day. I can find them easily when I want to open them, but they’re all corralled, and I can delete old ones after a while.
          I also grab desktop files from other places and shove them there when I -think- I’m done with them.

          If it turns out I’m wrong, I can find them, but meanwhile they’re out of sight.

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I like to save everything in a folder based on the project and then have subfolders for each year of the project. If you like saving things on your desktop, why not save the project folder to your desktop so you only have to scan for that name, then open it for each related year?

    4. NarrowDoorways*

      I divide everything by year and then project type.

      So 2104, 2015, 2016, 2017; weekly, monthly, company A, company B, etc.

    5. Hermione*

      I used to work a similar way – I often feel too busy in the moment to figure out a filing system, so I saved everything to the desktop, which slowed loading and make me feel wildly disorganized.

      A few years ago I switched to a new system for my home computer, I auto-save to a file I dubbed “quick save”, which is on the desktop (actually, is on dropbox with a shortcut on the desktop but you said that wasn’t an option) but keeps the files visually off the desktop.

      Then once a month or so (my rule of thumb is if I have to spend more than 2 minutes looking for a file I need, it’s time to clean up) I make folders based on projects and name them whatever makes the most sense for me to immediately know what that project is. Typically that looks like “Johnson Project May 2015 – Teapots with Teabag Attachments” – because I can then search my files by any of these keywords: Johnson, May 2015, Teabag, Attachment and come away with what I’m looking for.

      1. TootsNYC*

        A network server might serve the same role your Dropbox does, and might be within the firewall.

    6. SMM*

      I put folders for each project in Documents so I don’t have a messy Desktop.

      For current projects, I put the year/numerical date at the beginning of the folder name so they are listed at the top. Once I don’t need to look at them anymore, I rename the folder so that it will be farther down and not get in my way so much.

    7. Garland Not Andrews*

      I like to save to my desktop as well, but clutter makes me crazy. I have several Topic or project folders where I keep the documents I need. I might initially put them on the desktop, but then I just drag them into the correct folder.
      I also have specific places or areas for different types of folders. Right side lower is for project folders. Right side upper is stuff I can’t get rid of but rarely access. Left side is for shortcuts to specific folders in the shared drive. A few across the top are specific reference files I use often. There is space on the left side for new or temporary files to go and I know where to look for them.
      It keeps things easily accessible, but tidy.

    8. Newton Geizler*

      I save everything to my desktop too! The system I worked out is that files relating to anything I’m actively working on sit on the desktop. I provide a few different services, so I have a folder for each of those. Once a project is done, I make a subfolder for it in the appropriate Service Folder with the project name/date and file everything away. If you’re working on a few different things at once this might not work for you.
      I also keep templates that I use frequently on a separate section of my screen so I can always find them. In the past, I’ve also changed my desktop background to make different sections for different things. It’s… not pretty, but it makes it easy to visually sort things out.

      1. TootsNYC*

        So you chose a desktop image that had sections on it? like, if it’s a lake by a mountain, you put Project A on the mountain and Project B in the lake?

        It would be sort of fun to create your own desktop background w/ rectangles and labels!

        1. KR*

          We’ve done that for our editing PC that multiple people work on (section for each person, programs, ect) . It’s easy to whip up in Photoshop (or gimp or paint or whatever) and working with a group of young video editors people liked to add a lot of little hidden images or jokes or visual tricks.

    9. Hillary*

      I put everything in folders. I have one folder for vendors, with a subfolder for each individual company. Another folder for projects with a subfolder for each. There’s one gigantic folder called document retention for all the stuff I have to keep on file but should never need to look at again, and so on. At the end of the month I move daily files out of the main folder and into the year subfolder. Being able to change the views on folders is also a real plus. I’m obsessive about filenames, so I like the detail view in windows explorer. I usually sort by file name, but sometimes by date.

      Basically, it’s about how you think and where you’d go to look for things. If you remember things by projects, go that route. If it’s by date or who it involved, file it under those (I have folders called Jane and Bob, for instance). If you already have a way to organize your email you could copy that.

      1. Nicole*

        I agree that you want to organize in a manner that aligns with how you think so it’s easy to find your files later. To add to that, I suggest using the quick launch toolbar so all your frequently used files or folders are a click away without cluttering your desktop. Instructions on that are in the link if you click my name.

    10. TootsNYC*

      My vote is to have only a very few big folders. Divide your work up into big categories.

      Like, Staffing, Projects, Budget, Personal, Other.

      Maybe not more than 5 to start out. Maybe all your projects go in one big folder, and later you can see if it would make sense to either subdivide inside Projects, or have multiple Projects.

      (and maybe Staffing has resumes, vacation requests, procedure sheets, etc.–see the variety there?)

      This would use your current system (dump it in there and scan for it later) to a large degree.

    11. TootsNYC*

      Another possibility that would capitalize on your current system is to have folders for stuff you DON’T use. for the UNimportant stuff

      (a parallel might be my utensils drawer. I don’t have the whole thing divided, I just have two little “bins” for the small stuff like paring knives and measuring spoons, and one for the measuring cups, to keep them from sliding over and getting in the way of the spatulas, whisks, graters, tongs, pizza cutter, ice cream scoop, etc., all of which are jumbled together in the main section.

      So, the stuff that you DO put in a folder is the stuff you know you won’t want, or that’s seldom used (and so you don’t want to scan for it).
      Or, it’s a very few things, but ones you use all the time.

      ANOTHER OPTION: use time. (you wrote: too many years)
      So you have a folder on your drive for each year, and you scoop desktop files into it and out of the way. Then when you do go back that far, you’re only seeing one year’s worth at a time.

  19. Marian, the unemployed librarian*

    I have my MS degree in Library Science and want to work in a public library, preferably Reference Services, but I don’t have enough Reference desk experience. (I was only in shelver positions.) I’ve tried for tech services jobs because I do have experience in cataloging and copy cataloged in previous positions, but I’m not techie enough or they are seeking someone with more experience, etc. UGH! I’m not sure what I can do. Does anyone have any suggestions?

    1. Anoners*

      Are there any insurance / law / medical type offices where you live? I find most of those kinds of businesses need reference librarians, and it might be a way to get some experience in that specific field. Public library jobs are so hard to get (yes people luck into them, but it’s rare), and MS schools are pumping out graduates in a big way, so there’s lots of competition… Basically I would suggest looking for other types of workplaces that might hire a MS, get some experience and then try to get into the public library. Also many libraries hire from their existing staff, who have this MS, so if you do work at one already you might have a way in. Good luck!

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Are there any insurance / law / medical type offices where you live?

        These are good suggestions, but just want to point out that some law libraries require you to not only have a MLS, but also a J.D. Corporate librarianship in general, though, is very underserved in my area.

    2. Public Library Tech Services Admin*

      Have you ever worked the circulation desk? I think you’d have better luck applying to a circ job that doesn’t require a degree, and then getting an internal hire to reference librarian.
      Tech Services is even tougher to get into, because the market is flooded with MLIS graduates who don’t want to actually work with the public.

      1. Marian, the unemployed librarian*

        I did as a temp job one summer. It was a bit of a challenge because I have BRF (“Bitchy Resting Face”) and the manager kept screaming at me to “smile”. Turnover was really really high in that place- as in they were posting jobs weekly on all the library boards, so maybe it was just a bad place.

    3. Fellow MLIS holder*

      Can you volunteer at a smaller library to get some experience with reference? I work in an information services field that is not library-related, but a lot of my classmates found that they absolutely had to have internship or volunteer experience in order to be hired.

      Definitely seconding the advice to work in a special library recommended above. You might even try competitive intelligence work or prospect research (in a nonprofit fundraising setting), both of which would get you a lot of experience conducting reference interviews that you can point to as a related skill.

      Sometimes you just have to suck it up and take paraprofessional positions for a bit. The professional MLIS market is a lot rougher than the ALA would make it out to be.

      1. Marian, the unemployed librarian*

        Could you share what you do? Or the type of work you do? (I’m nosy and the “information services field but not library-related” bit has me intrigued.)

    4. fposte*

      Would you be available to sub? That’s one of the best ways to get a foot in the door at an individual library, but obviously it’s tough to do if you have something full-time on.

      1. Feel your pain*

        I second subbing in a library. That’s how I got my start. Join organizations and attend conferences. Many times there are scholarships available. Attend workshops – usually inexpensive. Join list-servs so that you see open positions and also follow library trends.

        Good luck to you!

    5. Jax*

      Also try looking at jobs smaller library systems. Do you have friends/classmates with positions in public libraries? Maybe network with them and see if they’ll put in a good word for you, too, at least for an interview.

    6. harahel*

      Be willing to sub, for sure. Sadly, there are more degrees then there our jobs in our field. Also, I would highly recommend becoming conversant in Overdrive and other ebook softwares. A lot of libraries need someone who understands those systems enough to explain them to patrons!

    7. GiggleFits*

      My first reference job was part-time at a community college just before I started library school. It was a great starting point. Community college libraries (at least where I live) often have positions open for part-time circulation and reference staff because people get full time positions and leave fairly regularly. Plus, CC libraries often serve a pretty diverse population that’s fairly similar to a public library’s patron base (minus the kids and younger teens). Obviously part-time isn’t ideal, but if you were willing to work the evening/weekend shifts you could pair it pretty easily with another part-time or a full time position. At least it’s a foot in the door.

    8. Library School Dropout*

      It always helps if you have any experience with a second language.

      There seem to be a fair number of jobs in out-of-the way small rural towns. Of course, you’d have to move and a small town might not be where you’d want to live, but if you could do it for a year or two you’d get some experience that way.

      For some reason I see a fair amount of turnover in positions for “children’s librarians” and “young adult librarians.” Such a position might be a way to get your foot in the door.

      Finally, although it doesn’t sound great, it seems like they are always advertising for librarians to work in prisons. (Alison interviewed a prison librarian a while back.)

    9. ScarletInTheLibrary*

      Do you have an interest in genealogy? Genealogical societies may be looking for instructors/speakers. For many, it easy to get pidgeon-holed (special libraries, public libraries, organizational libraries);however, genealogy reference librarians seem to be the exception to this rule.

    10. DragoCucina*

      Are you able/willing to move? The market is tough in some areas, but there are places looking. I too have RBF. You have to push through it no matter the position. Even in tech services there are internal “customers”. It’s the fake it til you make it model.

      1. Marian, the unemployed librarian*

        I just hate being told to smile. I’m fine, this is just how my face is and unless I get plastic surgery, I can’t change it! Sorry for the rant. I have applied to jobs out of state, but they seem wary and it either ends with the phone call or they just send the rejection letter.

  20. work attire*

    Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I am SO glad statement jewelry is not a huge trend anymore because I am going to lose it if one more person or blog tells me I should wear a statement necklace at work.

    Obviously, no problem if you do likes statement jewelry but I really wish people would chill with giving women the same fashion advice as if we all have the same style, taste levels, body types, income, or work environments. I don’t wear jewelry and I hate that so much work attire advice to women centers around accessorizing when not every woman likes accessorizing! Accessorizing is okay! Not accessorizing is okay!

    This rant is brought to you by the coworker who constantly says I look too “New York Street” and should invest in some statement jewelry to look more feminine/approachable (this comes regardless of whether I’m wearing a dress or jeans). Mind you, my coworker calls her style “workplace Kentucky Derby”, and both of our work attires are fine in my workplace so I don’t know what her deal is with trying to change my style. It’s so irritating and I’m at my wit’s end.

    I’ll keep my leather jackets as my statement piece, thank you very much.

    3. Kristine*

      I don’t like statement jewelry, either. I own one small, simple necklace and two pairs of stud earrings. That’s it. I look out of place compared to my other female coworkers, but I don’t mind. I prefer to accessorize with bold lipstick.

    4. Camellia*

      I like “Yup, I’m street, so you better look both ways before you cross me!” Said with a firm look.

      Or maybe, “I’m returning your nose, dear; I found it in my business!” Said with a bright smile.

      Or perhaps, “I find a kind heart is the best accessory.” With a raised eyebrow for her unkindness.

    5. JLK in the ATX*

      I had a boss who hated my black pants/print top/heels attire. She said I was boring and that she found ‘changing me’ to be a challenge that she wanted to assume. Her style suited her (she’s a Chico’s shopper), but I wasn’t to be made over. I wore more black (although that’s not my style) to irritate her and said that I enjoyed my attire and can’t afford other types of clothes. She gave up.

      I’ve noticed on these threads, we’re afraid to tell people how we feel (in a professional, non-confrontational) manner. How about telling her, “My style makes me feel very confident, professional, and feminine. I’m sure your style does that for you. I like me. I won’t change.” I have a feeling she’ll say, “I was just making a suggestion..geez.” but at least you set your boundary.

      1. work attire*

        Oh, I don’t have a problem telling her I like my style. I’m just tired of hearing about it. I usually go for, “Jewelry isn’t my thing. I like my current style and don’t plan to change it.”

        I think she’s just the type of person who thinks all woman need to wear jewelry and that femininity is about bright colors and flashy jewelry. Which I don’t have a problem with, but bright colors and big jewelry is totally not me.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          It’s time to change what you are saying, you have to connect the dots for her because she can’t.

          “We have talked about this before and what did we conclude?”

          OR

          “Yes, you have made your point. Please stop mentioning it.”

          OR

          “We have talked about this previously. Let’s talk about other things.”

          You could try to derail her with asking her why she keeps bringing this up. To me she sounds like she is bored. I worked with a person who routinely asked me what was for dinner. I really hate that question, so my urge to strangle this person went way up. I really believe the question came from a place of boredom.

    6. Kai*

      “Workplace Kentucky Derby” is a hilarious description and I can imagine perfectly what that looks like. Love it.

      1. Paige Turner*

        “Workplace KY Derby” is totally hilarious but “New York street” just sounds offensive. I’ll stick with my all-black-and-maybe-a-scarf work clothes, myself.

      2. Janice in Accounting*

        To combat wardrobe boredom I like to designate theme weeks (in my head only): wear stripes every day for a week, or wear a different black skirt every day. I think I may branch out: “Workplace Kentucky Derby” week where I wear a different patterned dress and kicky heels each day; “New York street” week with lots of slouchy black looks; maybe “NASCAR” week with denim everyday, or “Seattle street” week and wear various raincoats.

    7. Central Perk Regular*

      As someone who has gone to the Kentucky Derby several times, you probably wouldn’t want to dress this way in your every day job. Now, I like huge, over-the-top hats, frilly dresses, and sky-high heels but I would never wear it to my (corporate) job, but that’s just me. :) I’ve also seen women wear halter tops and short shorts to my very conservative office, so I guess everyone’s definition of “smart casual” is different.

      I have a nice leather jacket that I bought at Free People several years ago and I happily wear it to work. :) I don’t personally wear a ton of jewelry anymore and when I do, it’s more subtle, delicate pieces.

    9. Emilia Bedelia*

      I feel like this is veering into “not everyone can eat sandwiches” territory… clothing is such a personal choice that I really don’t think anyone should take any advice as anything more than a suggestion (especially when things like shorts suits and sheer blouses are presented as serious suggestions of what to wear….what??). I hate white blouses, khaki is my worst neutral, and pencil skirts are super unflattering on me, which basically means that I’ve never followed any traditional workplace clothing advice. If you’re happy with what you wear, then don’t worry about it- these suggestions are for people who want ideas on changing their style, which sounds like is not a concern for you.

      Frankly, I think statement necklaces/jewelry/accessories are one of the few types of clothing that is applicable to many tastes, body types, income levels, etc. They’re almost 1 size fits all, available at many price points, can be suitable for a wide range of climates, and anyone can find something in their style. I think it’s better for blogs/etc to highlight small accessory changes which are more accessible for more people, rather than bigger investment pieces.

      With regards to your coworker, I’d ask her point blank “Do you think the way I dress is inappropriate for work? Then can I ask you to please stop commenting on what I’m wearing? I like the way I look, and I’m not really interested in changing my style.”

      1. Aurion*

        Well, the thing about the “not everyone can eat sandwiches” is that the OP is asking for advice first (“what is a cheap and easy way to pack lunch”). In work attire’s situation, their coworker is preemptively trying to convince them to change the style, and it’s the preemptive part that makes this obnoxious.

        1. Anna*

          Yeah. This isn’t someone asking what is appropriate professional attire or is it okay to wear this statement piece in a professional setting; it’s someone who dresses professionally and is comfortable with their style asking to be let the eff alone.

          I like statement jewelry and I always wear earrings. That’s my thing. Also, am not wearing a necklace today, because I don’t like them every day. BUT that’s how I dress, not how my really good friend dresses (she does not wear earrings and she likes simple necklaces). Clothing is a personal choice and unless it’s inappropriate and you are in charge of that person, it’s best to bug off.

        2. Emilia Bedelia*

          I definitely agree that the co-worker is out of line!
          I’m specifically responding to the general comments about how people in general should stop recommending that women should accessorize at work. Blogs and such are MEANT for people who are “asking for advice”- I get that the co-worker is annoying because it’s unsolicited, but I disagree with the idea that because some people don’t like wearing necklaces, no one should ever recommend, in any situation, that someone else wear one at work, which is kind of what the original post was implying in my reading.

          1. work attire*

            My issue isn’t with the recommendation, it’s with the blogs who state that you SHOULD or NEED to wear a necklace to look professional. It’s one thing to suggest that I wear jewelry for a casual look and another entirely to tell me I have to wear it or else I don’t look professional. Quite a few veer towards the latter.

    10. MsMaryMary*

      I don’t manage people anymore, so my coworkers’ work attire is officially Not My Concern. Therefore I follow my mother’s advice: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.

      1. Jersey's Mom*

        oh god, do I need more coffee.

        I read that as “if you can’t wear something nice……”

        1. aeldest*

          I am totally stealing this for when my friends complain they don’t know what to wear!

          “well, like my mom always said, if you don’t have anything nice to wear, don’t wear anything at all!”

    12. KatieKate*

      I would be so complemented if someone said my style was New York Street! (She said, wearing a statement necklace AND leather jacket.)

    13. Not the Droid You Are Looking For*

      Ha! I love the “workplace Kentucky Derby” description because admittedly that’s my style :)

      But agh, I would never, ever tell a coworker to change their style.

    15. Manders*

      My cutest statement jewellery is all from SFF conventions. Unfortunately, I don’t work in the kind of office where necklaces with dragons or BB-8 on them would fit in.

        1. Amadeo*

          Yes. I have a lightsaber necklace I got from Kay and I think it may have helped me land my current job. Lots of people think it’s a flute at first glance (it’s subtle, and gold, with diamonds as the blade), but my now-supervisor and now-coworker caught onto it immediately at my interview.

    16. Woman of a Certain Age*

      I had conflicting role models growing up. My father’s mother was older and had been young during the 1910s and 1920s. She was something of a “flapper” and bobbed her hair and liked and wore bright colors, large gaudy jewelry. She sort of looked like someone from “Downton Abbey.” But really her taste in jewelry and clothing was sort of questionable. OTOH, my mother’s mother was younger and came of age during the Great Depression. She was poorer and was something of a Lutheran church lady and rarely wore jewelry at all.

      I kind of tend to take after the Lutheran church lady side of the family and don’t really like jewelry that much. I prefer to wear nice tailored clothing and I think that my clothes look classy by themselves. If I do wear jewelry, more often than not, it is just a strand of (faux) pearls and maybe a matching pearl bracelet.

      For some reason, many of my coworkers are into Navajo-style turquoise jewelry. It sort of seems like “cultural appropriation” to me, and even if not, I just can’t seem to get into it. (I think some of the jewelry comes from “Chico’s.”)

    17. TootsNYC*

      “should invest in some statement jewelry to look more feminine/approachable”

      Actually, I think statement jewelry looks more assertive and aggressively fashionable, which are not what I think of as stereotypically feminine/approachable.

      (love there, “I’m returning your nose; I found it in my business”

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I can’t see loud colors and statement jewelry being “more” feminine, either.
        And equating feminine looks with being approachable hurts my brain.
        To each her own, I guess.

        If I were to push for a show down over this one, I would ask, “You keep saying that. Are you trying to tell me that others feel I am not approachable, that I am off-putting somehow?”

        [She stammers out something.]

        Then I would say, “Well this topic of clothes and jewelry keeps coming up. I have explained that I will not be changing my appearance which basically answers that question. Since the topic keeps coming up I have to wonder if there is an underlying concern that has not been addressed, because I have answered this particular concern as presented.”

    18. Lady Bug*

      I just hate the term “statement necklace”. Its jewelry. Its not making a statement. Rant over.

    19. AdAgencyChick*

      I adore statement necklaces but I would never dream of trying to impose them on someone else!

    20. Mander*

      That would make me crazy. As long as what I’m wearing is appropriate it’s not anyone’s business to tell me what to wear.

  21. J*

    I could use a little help crowdsourcing questions for an interview on Monday.

    I felt pretty confident in the first interview, but I realized after the fact that I didn’t ask good questions about the culture of the workplace. I tried to convey more what I’ve enjoyed about workplaces in the past in the hopes of prompting “oh, here’s how we’re similar” types of commentary from the interviewees. I was satisfied with what I was hearing, though, of course, everyone is on their best behavior in an interview.

    Does anyone have recommendations for questions that feel out what kind of management culture a place has?

    We moved over the summer, and I left behind an organization and team I loved and have been fortunate to have found a job with another team I like, but the commute is just too far. I’m fortunate to have the luxury of not needing to get out of my present situation, so I want to make sure to find a good fit if I make this leap.

    1. all aboard the anon train*

      How are metrics measured? What’s the growth opportunity like at the company? Does your team/department/company offer learning opportunities and if so, can you give me some examples?

      If it’s not mentioned in the interview, I’ll ask if this position is new or filling someone who left and why that’s the case. From there I’ll ask about the turnover, whether they promote from within or hire from the outside, and if there’s growth expected for the team or department.

      How would you describe your culture? What aspects of the culture are your favorite and what aspects do you think could be improved? How’s your work/life balance? What do you enjoy most about this job/company and what do you least like about it?

      Do you have a busy period? If so, does it require extra hours/overtime and how do you cope with that?

      1. J*

        I actually threw out an off-the-cuff question about metrics in the first interview. I felt weird about asking it after the fact, like maybe that wasn’t okay for an interview, but the answer was very helpful.

        1. Anna*

          It’s always fun when you off-handedly ask a question and they’re impressed. I did a phone screening with a start-up once and because my friend works for one and I knew the issues they dealt with, I asked about funding. The guy was super impressed and I was invited to interview in person.

    3. Pari*

      Why do employees like working here?
      Besides qualifications what you you look for when hiring new employees?
      Why is this position vacant?
      If I’m hired what might the first 60 days look like from your perspective?

    4. Gung Ho Iguana*

      I’m wondering about this myself. One of my issues with my current workplace is that my boss doesn’t set priorities but still dings you for not getting all your work done. I’m thinking of saying that I work best in a structured environment with clear expectations, and asking if that’s their working environment.

    5. NaoNao*

      I’ve had some success with:
      “What types of people tend to do well here and what types of people tend to struggle?”
      “What type, if any, of employee engagement incentives or activities do you have?”
      “Can you tell me a little bit about the “perfect match” for this team? What type of personality, in general, tends to fit best with this team/office/job?”
      “Can you share a little bit about your yearly evaluation process, if any? What types of things do you evaluate on?” (This may give you an idea of their business and cultural goals or mission/vision statement type stuff)

    6. FatBigot*

      You could try “Can you tell me about the history of this position?”. What they say or do not say could give lots of info about the company.

    7. Jules the First*

      My personal magic question is ‘If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about your process, what would it be?’ No one has ever thought about that deliberately, but it’s the kind of thing they can answer fairly quickly and it give you great insight into what they think works and doesn’t work around the office (also, sometimes, about the annoying things!)

      The other question I ask is ‘what are the bear traps someone in this role will trip over?’ It gets a laugh and then some really revealing answers because people are primed with the amusement and then off-stride when they give you an answer.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Those are really good. I asked something similar (“If you could change one thing about the process here, what would you change?”) at my last two interviews, at fast-growing startups. The answers were all pretty telling, about how things change all the time, you have to be flexible, we’re all really busy, etc.

        Today, my interview was at a much more traditional place. So I asked, “I noticed you have a lot of people working here who have been here for a very long time. Why do you think they stay?” The answer didn’t surprise me, per se, but I enjoyed hearing the answer.

  22. hit the wall*

    I have a slacker coworker who has flown under the radar and has gotten away with slacking off for YEARS. She finally has a manager who wants to do something about it, which is good, but it is so frustrating that she has gotten away with doing the bare minimum for so long. She has never been promoted or recognized and gets minimal raises every year. She wouldn’t last three months at any other organization, which is probably why she hasn’t looked for another job. She doesn’t care and knows no one else would tolerate this. People where I work hate doing the work that would go into putting someone on a PIP, so a ton of people here just get away with doing barely anything without consequence. It has been very frustrating for me to watch.

    3. Menacia*

      What I have seen with new managers coming into our organization is panic from the people who have been coasting for years. This, in turn, has caused more calls to IT from people who are looking for help how to do their job! Um, you have been doing the job for 20 years and you don’t know how to do it? It’s frustrating as hell because I’m the one who is usually helping them because they can’t help (or refuse) to help themselves. I’ve started pushing back BIG time because I’m not a SME and I won’t take on that role without major changes happening to my current position. People even call me to send them instructions I have already sent them (how about doing a search in your email?!).

      1. Rubyrose*

        I know this is a pain, but when I constantly get emails from the same person asking me to send what I’ve already sent, this is what I do. I find the email I originally sent them and note the date and time of that email. In response to their new request, I tell them they can find the information in the email I sent them on this date/time. I only have to do that two times; they get the message and somehow they are then able to find all that previous stuff I sent.

  23. AnotherAnony*

    The past two jobs that I’ve had the big boss who hired me liked me, but my direct supervisor that I reported to and spent the most time with did not like me so much- in the interview in front of the boss they were of course professional, but once on the job they changed. I don’t know if they wanted another candidate for the position or it was just something about me that they didn’t like, but they were mean since day one. They didn’t want to train me, include me in anything, etc. They were also really catty and liked to make fun of me within earshot and joke about me to other co-workers. I have a sense of humor, but it consisted of excluding me and bordered on bullying, plus it was like a giant popularity contest and the actual work didn’t matter. Is there a way to avoid this? Is there any way to tell from the interview? Or do you only know once you’re there?

    1. Anna*

      Man, that sucks and I’m sorry you had to deal with that even a little bit. I’m not sure there’s a way to know it completely when you interview. After all, they’re (usually) on their best behavior just as much as you are, but know that MOST places are not like that and you’ll probably not land in another job where people are so shitty just based on randomness alone.

    2. Golden Lioness*

      Sorry, I have no suggestions but just to say my sympathies.
      Unfortunately some people do not show their true colors right away. There’s always going to be an element of uncertainty. You cannot control their behavior, but you can control yours! Always be the best you can be!

    3. Girasol*

      Do you think you come across in an interview as being especially competent? People who get bully treatment tend to be those who are good enough at what they do that the bully fears he will look bad by comparison. You might have some luck with praising a bully in front of the boss but some are so insecure that even that won’t help. I can’t imagine how you’d know in an interview that this is going to be a problem, since few interview panelists would blurt out (especially in front of their own bosses) “I think you’re a little too good to fit in here.”

      1. AnotherAnony*

        My degree is in the same field that the big bosses had theirs, but my supervisors either didn’t have a degree or had a different degree/degree in another field. I didn’t brag about it or talk about it, but some of my coworkers maybe thought I wanted to be in the big boss’ position. I’m pretty quiet and reserved, so maybe they thought I was a snob or something. I don’t know. I guess the jobs just weren’t the best fit, but the fact that it happened twice has me really bothered, like is it me? Am I doing something terribly wrong? I admired the people I worked with- degree or no degree, but I just don’t know how to vocalize it.

        1. Jules the First*

          There was a great article on Inc today about ‘what happened when I complimented everyone I met one day’ which really resonated – it’s a great way to practice building rapport with people….everyone likes it when they get compliments, and it can make you a bit more approachable if you’re reserved.

          1. AnotherAnony*

            I would do that though. I mean I wasn’t mute or anything. They just seemed to hate me from the start. There were other quiet people there, but somehow I was their target. I was also the only female so maybe that was the problem as well?

            1. Jules the First*

              Being the only woman certainly doesn’t help…is it at all possible that you’ve ended up in work environments where this kind of ‘blokey’ hazing is par for the course and happens to everyone (and you just happened to be the last one in and so the only one it happened to)? If that’s the case, you’re best served by channeling your inner frat-boy and snarking back (which I know is hard because we’re so conditioned not to be rude). The other possibility, if you’re the only woman, is that they simply had no idea how to relate to you (and I’m not saying this was right, but awkwardness can turn in to clique-ness and bullying quite easily).

              In terms of sniffing it out at interview, I’d ask things like ‘what kinds of people succeed in this role?’ and, actually, ‘what is it like to be a woman in this organisation?’ (though the latter works better if you can get a face to face with a woman who actually works there). It can be tough being the first woman in the business, so seek out some professional associations in your field and see if you can connect with some other women in the field who can commiserate and swap coping techniques.

              1. AnotherAnony*

                I understand where you’re coming from, but they were the type to dish it, but they couldn’t take it or they wanted others to get in trouble. I gave a sassy reply once and almost landed in hot water. But the guys could do whatever they want. My one older female coworker would try to get me to talk smack about people just so she could tell on me because she either wanted me to get in trouble or get fired.

        2. Girasol*

          Ouch. I’ve met a number of people without a college degree who seem to wildly overestimate the intelligence gap between themselves and degree holders, and act as though “uneducated” is tattooed on their foreheads where everyone sees it regardless of what they do or say. If you share a background with the big bosses, I can see how a manager who isn’t quite secure and mature might deal badly with it, no fault of yours.

    4. Woman of a Certain Age*

      I’ve noticed a pattern in my employment history that the people who hired me liked me and everything is fine for a time, but then a year or two later, they leave the organization and the new supervisor doesn’t really like me and wants to bring in their own hand-picked replacement for me. (And yes, I think my age is part of the reason.) Sometimes I feel invisible and sometimes I feel like they dismiss me. I don’t know what to do about it.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I think the answer is in your first sentence.
      The big boss hired you.
      The problem is not you, it’s the big boss. The supervisors probably hated the big boss and decided a good way to get even was to hate you.
      Big bosses usually do not catch on to this.

      Spend more time talking with the supervisor on the interview if you can. Supervisors should have inputs into who gets hired, it helps prevent a lot of these types of problems. Ask how much consideration is given to the supervisor’s inputs regarding who to hire. Ask about turn over, ask why the previous person left.
      On day ONE make the supervisor’s concerns your top priority. Yes, it can seem a little brown-nosy. But people who butter up other people cannot sustain this, make sure you always take care of your supervisor’s concerns ASAP. Think of it this way, you are her inlaw, she did not pick you and yet she has to live with you. Through actions let her know that you are there to help her. The pay off is later, in the long run. This happens when the supervisor lets her guard down and you go on to have a normal supervisor/employee relationship. It takes time to build this.

      1. AnotherAnony*

        I understand your point and not to argue, but the other coworkers then side with the supervisor. So it was the supervisor + coworkers versus me. (Strength in numbers?) One-on-one we might be fine, but when their friends are around, they put me down and act like they want nothing to do with me.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Ugh. Sounds like you had two toxic jobs back-to-back. This happens in toxic places where alliances change by the moment. I am sorry this happened to you.
          One thing I decided to do for me, was to make a quicker assessment of the place and get out sooner, as opposed to letting things drag on and on. Making that promise to myself seemed to help a little.

          1. AnotherAnony*

            I was out of the second place very quickly. It was right after the first place and I was like ready to hightail it out of there. Never. Again.

      2. Lo Flo*

        I had a phone interview one time with my potential manager and his director for a specialized accounting function. The director did all the talking in the interview. That was a huge red flag to me about the dynamic of their relationship, and/or his capabilities as a manager. The manager came across as not being knowledgeable about the department function since he didn’t describe the position. And the organization was large enough that a director shouldn’t have been involved in the phone screen phase of interviewing.

    6. TootsNYC*

      I really hate the idea of being hired by one person and supervised by another.

      I think it’s really important for the immediate boss to “buy in” to the staff member!

      I don’t know quite what you do, except to go back to the person who -did- hire you and ask for advice on how to handle it. But I agree with Not So NewReader, that the supervisor hates the Big Boss, so this approach would bakefire.

      And to avoid it: refuse to take a job where you’re hired by one person and supervised by another.

  24. Space Cowgirl*

    How do I get reengaged at current job after losing out on another role?
    So I was contacted by another organization that I have worked with in the past to apply for a position with them, and went through the (very long) interview process, and was offered the job! Ultimately they rescinded the offer (!!!!!!), which works out because their organizational culture seems A HOT MESS. My question is how do I get re-engaged in my current job? One of the reasons I was open to other opportunities is because I am labeled as a “high performer” in my current role, and keep getting assigned tasks beyond my capabilities with no support. Since I thought I would be taking this new role, I mentally checked out of my current role, and now have to clean up some things that have fallen through the cracks. Any suggestions on how to get re-engaged and repair my relationship with my boss?

    1. Golden Lioness*

      Take a deep breath, maybe a couple of days off to relax and do something fun and remember how great it is to be a top performer… and how it will allow you some more awesome leads and opportunities int he future!

      1. Space Cowgirl*

        Thanks Golden Lioness,
        I actually have scheduled a few days off, and hopefully, that helps. My anxiety is in overdrive though, I feel like I haven’t set any boundaries on what is realistic for me to accomplish, have taken on too much without any help, and am feeling very close to having panic attacks again. I need to learn to downshift if i want to be able to stay at this job for a while, and I don’t know how to do that :(

        1. Golden Lioness*

          I hear you! Just take it one day at the time. Someone gave me the advice of taking a day of two and go do stuff, and I helped me at least to put things in perspective. I was still anxious (can’t help it. I am a worrier!) , but it did take the edge off and I could slowly feel more in control.

          Just one step at the time! and best of luck!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Rethink your situation.
      When I started my job, my boss gave me the start of my resource list, as in “who ya gonna call?”
      If you already have a resource list, make sure it is up to date. If you have websites you refer to, make sure they are on your list. I have mine in an Excel spreadsheet. I can up date it easily and print out the newest version on a regular basis.
      Where I work we like to save things that we have made, just in case we need a similar document later on. Maybe this would help in your setting, if you have to create documents or widgets or whatever, save the prototype so you do not have to reinvent the wheel if you need another wheel later. Bonus points for setting up a good system for saving the prototypes. My are here and there and waaay over there…..
      Ask for additional training if possible. If not then maybe consider taking a relevant course or two out of your own pocket. Sometimes dire situations can be helped just by investing in ourselves.
      I am not sure what happened with your boss that you feel the need to repair it. My suggestion is go in and have a heart to heart. Line up what you want the boss to know before you go in there.
      “I have items A through M on my plate.” Maybe the boss does not realize you have that much.
      “My background is A and B, I have no background in C.” It’s amazing how many bosses have no idea what their employee’s background is, the boss has never looked at the resume for [reasons].
      Figure out other things that are critical to your success at this job and discuss these points with the boss.
      Last, look for Friendlies. These are people who you interact with through your job who are exceptional helpful. Make a note of who they are and what areas they possess knowledge about. It is amazing how many Friendly people are out there that will give random pointers which can be so very helpful. Make a deliberate effort to collect up these pointers as often as possible. I always say, “I am a sponge, I soak up the best of the best ideas around me.”
      I am pointing this out because when we have 9 million things coming at us it is tough to notice who is actually helpful. In some cases there can be a person who is hoping you will come back with another question. Watch for these people.

      1. Space Cowgirl*

        Thanks Not So NewReader,
        I have a meeting with my boss this afternoon, this is very helpful. I am scared of having the heart to heart and being vulnerable about my limitations, but is necessary at this point!

  25. TotesMaGoats*

    OMG. I applied to a doctoral program (or started the process at least) this morning. I think I’m a little sick to my stomach. I’ve ALWAYS wanted to do that. Maybe this will help with the job search to have that on my resume even if I’m only doing one class at a time.

    2. ButFirstCoffee*

      Yay for moving forward! I am sure it is a long progress, but taking the first step if how you get started. :)

    4. Bigglesworth*

      Yay! Congratulations! I hope you get into the program you want. What field is your (future) doctorate going to be in?

  26. Folklorist*

    This is your semi-weekly ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST!!! Go and do something productive and come back and tell us about it! Bonus points if you’ve been putting it off for a month or more!

    1. msmorlowe*

      Unfortunately, I’m seeing this with only one minute left on the clock (and my job is such that I *have* to get up and leave when my job ends…also, that it’s fine for me to be on this site while working!).

      I feel I should bookmark it for tomorrow!

  27. Not Karen*

    My company is in the works of designing a new building for us and is taking employee suggestions. What would you incorporate into your office building if you had the chance to build it from scratch?

        1. BRR*

          My offices has the cubicles on the outside and the offices/conference rooms on the inside. It’s awesome for light especially in the winter when I leave before the sun rises and gets home after it sets.

        2. Girasol*

          Hehe! Our boss sat us all down to explain that the organization had been completely retooled. Some of us had major job changes, others reported to new managers. At last he asked, “Questions or concerns?” The first question was, as usual, “So do we get to move to a part of the building with windows?”

    2. squids*

      Build it to last. Right now we have sensitive equipment installed under old plumbing and an old HVAC unit, both of which have leaked in the past year. There’s a lot of other things not well thought out, so that as the building ages, small system failures cause a lot of trouble. Climate systems, electrical, plumbing, windows, and what the rooms are actually used for should be well thought out in harmony, not in conflict.

    3. Pwyll*

      Soundproofing and muffling. Natural light. A variety of break-out space (conference rooms, small huddle rooms, etc.)

      1. Saturnalia*

        Yes yes, soundproofing and muffling are a MUST. My open-ish office lacks both. It’s been difficult.

    4. LizB*

      Lots of power outlets that are easy to get to from any place in the room
      Good insulation/heating/cooling
      Flexible spaces – my current building has a big room that can be divided in two by pulling out a section of wall, and it’s really handy
      Pumping spaces for new moms

      2. Finman*

        My cube has a USB port in it that I can use to charge my phone, it’s a nice functionality. I also really like single person phone rooms that allow you to make a business (or personal) phone call without taking over an entire conference room.

    5. Xarcady*

      Natural light.
      Kitchens/break rooms with doors that close to block the noise.
      Bathrooms that are not located five feet from someone’s desk.
      As much noise suppression/blocking technology as possible, if there’s even a hint of open planness in the office.

    6. MsMaryMary*

      Good acoustics/soundproofing.
      A decent balance between bland neutral decor and some color or personality
      Outside: sidewalks/walking paths from all parking lots and all the way around the building.

        1. zora.dee*

          No she said “resting” room, as in a quiet room for a short rest or nap. Not a bathroom with a toilet.

    9. Garland Not Andrews*

      If you are in an area where it is cool and safe for biking to work, request a shower or locker room for cleaning up after riding to work!

      1. rage is my caffeine*

        THIS THIS THIS. Except I wouldn’t limit it to just if you have people commuting on bikes. I would LOVE a locker room at my office so I wouldn’t have to pay for a membership to the gym across the street to get my lunchtime runs in.

    10. Anna*

      Something that keeps bugs out. I realize that you will not have to deal with this because your office will not be set in a 75 year old converted milking shed, but it is first and foremost on my mind right now.

      Actual offices. I was at a meeting earlier this week where some of the people there were having a new building built and they had to fight for offices rather than cubicles.

      1. Not Karen*

        I am currently dealing with the bug problem at my apartment, so I sympathize.

        Actual offices are my #1 priority. I can’t even fathom why anyone would prefer cubes.

    11. not so super-visor*

      I would absolutely make sure that they didn’t set it up with the dreaded open-office layout!

      1. Manders*

        I knew I was fed up with open offices when I got pissed off at a car ad that opens with a man at his stifling job… in a really lovely, clean, quiet glass-walled office with tons of natural light.

        I’d take even a tiny office over an open office at this point.

    12. Rebecca*

      A real kitchen area, with a double sided sink, nice counter top area, a big fridge, several microwaves, and a nice area to sit and eat lunch, away from the offices. It’s really depressing to have to go to the bathroom to get water for coffee, wash out cups or dishes in the bathroom sink, etc. especially when there is just one sink. If someone needs to wash their hands, there you are with all your stuff, trying to balance things, not put them down on the sink, etc.

      1. the.kat*

        +1 to the double sided sink. I’d also push for a garbage disposal. A lot of people expect one and I hate having to reach into the gumminess to unclog a sink.

      2. Jules the First*

        +1 on somewhere nice to sit and eat lunch. The thing I miss most about my last job is the huge tables in the kitchen where everyone used to hang out (at lunchtime and for coffee breaks)….I was soooooo productive on the days I decided to work from the cafe.

    14. JustaTech*

      Enough bathrooms! It’s super awkward/annoying having to wait while your coworkers do their business.

    16. Chaordic One*

      Individual offices where you can get some privacy to actually do your work. Windows that open. Places in your office to hang your coat. For cubicle workers, places in the cubicle where you can hang your coat. (Not some awful coat room at the far end of the building that no one is going to use.)

      Centrally-located rest rooms and break rooms. (Not something on another floor that takes 5 or 10 minutes to get to. A private room for breast-feeding. Locker rooms with showers for the people who commute to work on bicycles or who might leave the building for lunch and go running.

    17. So Very Anonymous*

      Actual offices with walls and doors instead of cubicles. Windows. The ability to sit at one’s computer without having one’s back to the door (well, “door” since I’m in a cubicle). A kitchen and bathroom in the large suite I work in, with a large refrigerator and maybe (gasp!) TWO microwaves.

      I know, that last one is totally unreasonable. But one can dream…

    18. Overeducated*

      +1 to full kitchen (or at least sink, microwave, fridge, coffee maker, cupboards) and shower/lockers. We spend a lot of time at work, it makes a big difference to be able to get exercise on the way and warm up a meal.

    19. ScarletInTheLibrary*

      Good access to staircases. Our stairs are in odd nooks, some of which can only be accessed by certain staff. You really have to make the effort to take the stairs instead of the elevators. When our elevator was out of service for repairs, it was awkward when someone got stuck in the limited access stairwell or set off the fire alarm because they didn’t realize that one had to badge to get into or out of that stairwell.

    20. DragoCucina*

      I told our architect for the new library that the forbidden phrase was, “This is the trend.” When the firm’s interior designer used it for color suggestions he backed away from the table. Then she tried to sell us on black carpet with acid green swirls.

      Waist/desk high outlets. Sometimes architects will say, “I think it’s against code.” 99% it’s not, they just don’t like the looks. No stringing cords around or climbing under desks. We have them in the study cubicles and everyone loves them. I wanted them in the offices, but without telling me the plans were changed.

      Practical faucets. Not pretty high arched ones that splash all over.

    21. Lab Monkey*

      At least a few gender neutral, single stall bathrooms. I would quit my job tomorrow to be able to pee in peace.

    22. Observer*

      I agree with most of these. I want to reiterate higher outlets. Also, enough network jacks, also at desk or higher height.

  28. Calcifer*

    It pains me to say this but my intern is annoying and I don’t like him.

    I’m struggling to effectively manage him because he’s considered “awkward” by management because he was homeschooled and incredibly sheltered. He doesn’t follow directions and has difficulty focusing and completing projects. He interrupts me no less than 15 times a day with questions that he could answer himself if he would use problem solving skills. We’re in a field where these skills are essential and honestly if he was in his professional job he would he fired.

    Some of the things he does:
    * Walks into my office and just stand there with a blank look on his face. If I say “What do you need?” he says he can’t remember and walks out.
    * If he fudges a word in the middle of talking he’ll say “hummna hummna humnna blah blah blah” and stick out his tongue and make weird faces. Then he’ll forget what he’s saying and stand there trying to remember.
    * Asks me to look up phone extensions when he knows how to look them up himself.
    * Whistles and sings ENDLESSLY. I’ve talked with him and he said he doesn’t realize he does it. He’ll do it when customers are on the phone.
    * If I’m having a conversation with a co-worker or customer he will stand and listen until I tell him he needs to leave. Sometimes he will interject with a story about himself or his brothers and turn the conversation to himself. This annoys me the most.

    I’ve stopped acknowledging him when he bursts in and lurks silently behind me because I’ve asked him to send me an IM instead of interrupting. It hasn’t corrected the problem and he’s honestly more work for me when he is here. Yesterday he kept a customer on the phone for an hour and a half and didn’t resolve her issue but never told anyone. I found out when that customer escalated to her boss and boss called me fuming. When I checked our ticketing system to see his notes there was nothing there; I asked intern why he didn’t enter a ticket he said other intern was working on another unrelated problem for customer so he figured he didn’t have to put one in. The protocol is a ticket for every issue and he knows this. I went back and discovered he hasn’t documented hundreds of issues.

    I’m at my wits end with this kid. How do I manage someone like this? He’s the son of upper management’s best friend so the entire situation has been difficult.

    2. JLK in the ATX*

      I find your statement unfair and unfounded, “I’m struggling to effectively manage him because he’s considered “awkward” by management because he was homeschooled and incredibly sheltered. ” You don’t know that’s the actual cause. You’ve also established a bias against this type of candidate/employee for future hires.

      He’s not a kid, he’s an adult at least 18 yrs and older? Although you’re frustrated with him, that’s no reason to degrade him by ageism (yes it goes in reverse, too)

      Document his deficiencies, follow-up with him specificially on those as needed (every day if that’s what it takes) and pursue moving him out of the workplace if his work and professionalism continues to interupt yours and others productivity. It’s not ok to have to work with someone, especially an intern who you’re trying to mold into a professional, who is not helpful.

      1. Calcifer*

        To clarify: Management says he is awkward and hard to manage because he is homeschooled and sheltered. As stated at the end of the post Intern is the son of one of the manager’s best friends.

        1. JLK in the ATX*

          They’re wrong to preface him with that type of label, assuming you’d be able to work with or work out the awkwardness which is not your job. You’ve bought into their bias assuming you can’t manage him because he’s awkward. What if you’re not the right person to manage him? Your skill set is for a diffenent type of intern/staff member and not this guy.

          The hard part will be telling ‘upper management’ that he’s not a suitable intern. Provide them documentation on working with him, correcting deficiencies and the corrections not taking effect. Note how his work is degrading customer service, technical productivity, your productivity, and could cost the company money.

          You’re not an intern-sitter.

        1. JLK in the ATX*

          You said you don’t know what do to with this kid. He’s not a kid in the workplace, he’s an intern and his age (as referenced to by ‘kid’) is irrelevant.

          Per your response below, “I am a young woman in a traditionally older male field so we are close in age.” Then maybe you know what it’s like to be his age and in a workplace. Empathy goes a long way, too.

          1. Calcifers*

            I appreciate your constructive comments but in an effort to stay on topic I will not engage in pedantry.

            Have a great day.

        2. J*

          Ah! Okay. He’s 16.

          I wouldn’t attribute his behavior to being awkward since it could be easily chalked up to not being familiar with workplace norms.

          So, have the conversation with him. Explain that you need him to be more pro-active with problem solving. Point out the specific instance of him asking for information that he already has as an example of where he could do better. (Be careful with this because you don’t want him to go too far where he starts making decisions he’s not actually ready/informed to make in the name of being proactive.)

          Let him know that there are times when you’re not going to be available to answer questions and work out a way for him to recognize that. Perhaps a closed door means you’re busy.

          Workplace norms are something we pick up over time, and some of us are slower learners than others. But you can do this!

          Yes, that’s more work for you, and maybe that’s a conversation to have with *your* manager. Teaching him workplace norms is a time-consuming task and maybe there’s someone else who can be a resource for him when you’re not available.

        3. MsMaryMary*

          He’s 16? That’s really young for a long term professional internship. I know of high school students who do a brief (< a month) internship or shadow a professional at the end of a semester, but it doesn't sound like your situation.

          Knowing that he's 16, a lot of these things sound like a lack or maturity or experience. Not that it makes it any easier for you. I'd shift from managing him like an intern to managing him like a teenager at his first job. You are going to end up doing a lot of micromanaging and setting professional norms.

          I'd also talk to management about treating him more like a high school student. Is he currently working a 40 hour a week schedule? That's a lot for a teenager, if you could get him down to mornings or afternoons it might be better for both of you. It's a lot of unstructured time, too, maybe you'd have better luck trying to break his day into distinct parts. And I would ask how they want to manage performance issues with him. Blowing off a customer and repeated ignoring well documented procedures would get the average 16 year old fired from their first job.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            Knowing that he’s 16, a lot of these things sound like a lack or maturity or experience. Not that it makes it any easier for you. I’d shift from managing him like an intern to managing him like a teenager at his first job. You are going to end up doing a lot of micromanaging and setting professional norms.

            This bears repeating. I get he’s annoying, but he’s also just starting out and learning professional norms. You’re going to have to get over your annoyance and break his tasks down into manageable chunks (if possible) and keep following-up to make sure it gets done.

        4. Anna*

          It’s possible that he’s just transferred learned behavior from home to work. If his parents were his teachers for school, there may be a learned behavior of not having to problem solve. “When I tell my teacher (Mom or Dad) that I don’t remember how to do X, they just do it.” As others have suggested, it might be time to have a talk about what flies in a work setting versus what flies at home or in a school setting. Even if he weren’t homeschooled, there would probably need to be a conversation about how Things Are Different.

          (I say this knowing a LOT of people who were homeschooled and parenting style is teaching style so kids don’t get the benefit of learning how to deal with different people in different situations so much.)

      3. Hermione*

        You’re being really confrontational about this. Calcifer states that management categorizes him as awkward because he was homeschooled and incredibly sheltered, but doesn’t say that they think that’s why he’s awkward – though they do go on to give multiple examples of awkward and frustrating behavior. While management’s categorization may be unfair and unfounded, Calcifer has examples of this intern’s awkward behavior, and they’re neither unfair nor unfounded. Nowhere in their note do they say that they wouldn’t consider hiring another homeschooled employee, just that this one is awkward and management thinks it’s because of the lack of socialization that comes with having been homeschooled.

        While I agree that ageism can be in reverse, Calcifer says that he’s young (in a comment they say he’s 16, which is a “kid”) and isn’t degrading him by ageism. His behavior is weird and frustrating regardless of his age.

    3. Pwyll*

      I think you need to have a sitdown with him about the issues to discuss them. In the meeting, focus on professionalism as it relates to the funny faces and babbling and interruptions. Explain these are performance issues that could get him fired in a permanent job, and that they’re serious things he needs to work on. Then, you’ll need to spot check the issues immediately as they occur. For example, when he comes into your office you need to immediately look up and say, “I’ve told you not to simply walk into my office unless it’s extremely urgent. What’s going on?” If he begins to babble, or it’s not an emergency, you say, “This is not extremely urgent. Please do as we’ve discussed and send me an IM about this.” If he asks you to look up a phone extension, you say “We’ve discussed that you need to look up these items on your own before asking anyone else. What’s going on?” I think you clearly state to him too, “Not putting tickets into the system is a fireable offense. If you were a fulltime employee you could be fired for not doing so. I’m not saying this to make you feel bad, but you’re here on a learning experience and I want to make it clear that not putting in support tickets is unacceptable. Do you understand?”

      This is why people are so, so wrong when they consider interns to be “low cost extra labor” (not saying that’s you). They’re often MORE work.

      1. Calcifers*

        Thanks so much for this. The mentality of other employees at or above my level is that they are low-cost labor and “just get through it – they’ll be gone in a year.” I’ll work on being more assertive with him. A part of me thinks he also struggles to take me seriously because I am a young woman in a traditionally older male field so we are close in age.

        1. Pwyll*

          I’ve struggled as the intern manager at a company where I appeared to be close in age to the interns (looking 10 years younger than you actually are is a blessing and a curse). While I didn’t have the added gender issues that my successor had (she is also a young woman), I completely understand the struggle. What’s important is laying down the authority level based on your actions and words. And, if necessary, pulling in your boss to help (having a private meeting with your own boss to get his backup, and then if necessary having a 3-person meeting). I could do that as a man, but my successor was very careful about this: she pulled in her (male) boss and a female senior executive when she had to have this type of corrective conversation, and was able to use the group to say, “I’ve asked you to do this. You have not done this. Why?” and just the presence of an SVP female in the room, with both bosses backing her up, drove home that she really WAS the intern’s boss.

          But really, there’s a reason some industries call their interns “puppies”. At the lowest end of entry-level, you really have to be explicit with course-correction as it happens, and have reflection meetings to tie it all up together for them if they’re not yet able to do so. If you can find the time to do that (it’s hard), it can really change the direction of the internship.

      2. afiendishthingy*

        I think this is all great advice. Calcifer, I also hope you realize that it is totally totally fine to not like the intern. Sometimes we don’t like people. Sometimes they don’t like us. I point this out because it sounds like you might feel a little guilty about your feelings, but you also are clearly trying to do your best to not let it affect your work with him. So do your best to correct his behavior and do your part of making his internship successful, but also recognize that there’s only so much you can do to help someone who doesn’t want to be helped.

        1. Jules the First*

          As I once, exasperatedly, told one of my senior staffers who called me to whine about being asked to share his (huge, enormous, more-than-enough-to-share) shiny project with someone he didn’t like: you don’t have to like him, you just have to work together.

          To a certain extent, that means you need to speak up and set boundaries for him and be really.obvious about calling him out when he crosses those. So instead of ignoring him when he comes into your office and hover, you pause your conversation, turn to him, and say “hey Javier, I’m surprised to see you here, because I haven’t seen an IM from you. As you can see, I’m in the middle of this, so please go back to your workstation and send me a note so I can prep an answer for you when I’m free.’

      3. MC*

        Agree with Pwyll – call it out in the moment: This is what I’ve stated. You are not following my directions. Are you having difficulty understanding these directions or are you just not able to follow them?

        Another, more difficult option (difficult because it takes more time) is to turn the question back: What have you done to resolve this problem so far? What steps have you taken to resolve this problem? For example, the phone extensions – “What have you done to find these extensions?” if the answer is “Nothing, I figured you would have them.” the appropriate response is “We’ve discussed this, you need to learn how to solve problems like this, especially where I have already provided you the instructions. Do not come to me with a problem like this until you have tried to solve it and can give me at least three examples of things you’ve tried.”

        I know this is infuriating but it sounds like this kid is dealing with a number of different challenges, youth, inexperience, possibly being so sheltered that his parents convinced him that he needs to go to an adult with a problem or that making mistakes is something to be hidden. Try to be a bit patient, but you may have to put some more time to help him talk through the problem and ask him “What are your next steps?” and let him talk through it.

        1. Pwyll*

          Yes, to your second paragraph! If he’s struggling with problem solving, as in he doesn’t know how to figure out how to find the answers he needs, this is a great way to walk through that thought process with him.

    5. Menacia*

      Can you create “cheat sheets” for him on how to look up phone numbers, scripts for customer calls (don’t keep them on the phone longer than x minutes, escalate if can’t resolve issue, etc.), reminders that every customer interaction requires a ticket, etc.? Laminate them and post them in his cubicle and ask him to refer to them first before coming to you. If he still comes to you with questions that are answered by the quick reference guide, bring him back to his desk and have him use them to find the answer. He’s very young, and it does sound like he has probably never been in a work environment before so he does have to be handled differently. His immaturity and perhaps lack of socialization skills are working against him, and you are frustrated, I would be as well. How long has he interned with you? You should also check in on him, that may help in his coming to you all the time.

    6. Colette*

      For the issue of coming to you before trying anything, you need to make it more of a hassle to ask you than to look himself. Don’t answer trivial questions immediately, redirect him to chat, ask what he’s tried, ask what he thinks the next steps should be. Point out patterns. Be direct about things that concern you. Since he’s an intern, I think you owe him more time, oversight, and chances than you’d give an employee, but that doesn’t mean an infinite number. If it comes to that, it’s better for him to get fired/fail his internship than for him to go on believing it’s going well.

      And on the flip side, praise him when it’s going well.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      It does not sound like he is ready for the work place yet.
      I don’t mean it as an insult. I tried driving when I was 15. I just could not get the idea of it, I was not ready yet. Yet I know people who drove at age 10 or 12.

      I would recommend pulling your boss in on this one. Let him know that Intern has failed to turn in 100s of tickets and you are concerned how this impacts the company.

      Really, I think there are too many things to correct here and it is beyond the scope of what you should be asked to handle. This is out beyond orienting someone to the work at hand.
      This is taking someone who is not ready for a job and trying to get them to fit in.

      So let’s say the conversation with your boss goes poorly and you are stuck with training this guy.
      I would target 3 to 4 things for a given time frame.
      Write them down and give it to him. “These are the things we are concentrating on for x time period, then I will pick 3-4 more things and we will work on those things.” If he does a particular thing that is not on the list let it go, just concentrate on what is on his current list. When you review the list with him, explain to him why the item is of concern.
      When the time frame is up, make a new list and review that with him. Then concentrate on those few things.
      If you can get others to buy into what you are doing. So whenever Josh is whistling/whatever, others will speak up also and say, “We don’t whistle in the workplace, Josh.” This might help to take some of the weight off of you.

    8. LCL*

      He’s not awkward because he’s home schooled. He’s home schooled because he’s awkward. The behaviors you describe would get him harassed and kicked out of school. Can he read? The only thing I can think of is to make checklists; have him help you put them together.

      1. Observer*

        I think you are correct on this. Some of what is being described here is just not typical for even a 16 year old.

    9. anon attorney*

      I think the issue here isn’t just that you’re being asked to socialise this young man, but that it sounds like he’s doing a customer facing job akin to what other, paid employees are doing. At his age that is a lot to ask of him and it’s also putting customer service at risk. Normally I’d expect an intern to be doing support work or nice to have projects, not delivering business critical services. Are there any such side projects you could identify and sell to senior management as a better learning option for the intern? it won’t address the issue of basic socialization, which I think you’re stuck with, but it would manage the risk of being blamed for performance problems caused by him.

    10. Observer*

      Lots of sympathy.

      Document your head off. Skip the things that personally annoy you, and stick to the things that are actionable. So, just humming and singing is one thing, but doing while clients are on the phone is a different matter, and one you should document. Not following procedures is something you should CERTAINLY document, including your attempts to correct the problem. The fact that at least one case got escalated is good for making your case – make sure to document that aspect of the problem. Also, things that show clear lack of even the most basic understanding of workplace norms. I mean, he’s asking his BOSS to do HIS work?! Seriously?!

      Also, shoot down the “well he’s homeschooled” nonsense. Plenty of kids are homeschooled and know better than to stick out their tongue and make faces when they need a word! That’s behavior lots of kids outgrow before they even start school! If you are not exaggerating about his behavior, this is not someone who is “awkward”. This is someone with a SERIOUS social skill deficit that is not going to be made up by any number of internships.

  29. ToxicWaste*

    For people who are/were in a toxic, dysfunctional work place, has therapy/talking to someone helped? I’m relieved to be out of a really bad situation, but the anger/resentment/PTSD-like symptoms are still lingering and I am having trouble moving past it all.

    1. PanicAttack*

      I am in this situation right now and I was only at the job for 4 months. (I have a post about it, but it has a link so hasn’t posted yet). Talk therapy helps me in that it validates me, but it hasn’t helped with the anger and resentment and nightmares. I hope that will go away in time and I’m sure that time will be longer the longer you were employed there. I think other people have quite a bit of success with CBT or similar types of therapy though!

    2. Kristine*

      Yep, it’s helped me. I was in a toxic workplace for 18 months and by the end it was impacting both my mental and physical health to a great degree. I was working with a professional while in that job who urged me to quit, and now he is helping me work through the anxiety that I still have so that it doesn’t impact my new (much better!) job. OldJob actually texted me last night asking me to do something for them so tonight’s session will be interesting…

      I wish you the best of luck in finding a good way to deal with the damage this toxic job inflicted on you.

    3. LizB*

      Yes! For me, the toxic workplace was bringing up memories of other traumas in my past, so addressing those first was crucial. But it’s also been really nice to have someone to help me reality check what’s normal and reasonable in a workplace and help me come to terms with the fact that I wasn’t the problem, the workplace was. Highly recommend trying it out, even if you ultimately discover it’s not for you.

    4. my two cents*

      HUGE fan of seeking some therapy if you can afford it.

      It really does help to vent a bit to a neutral third party, particularly if you’re feeling less than OK, and get some validation. They can help you come up with strategies for navigating through those feelings should they bubble back up while at the new workplace.

      When seeking a therapist, try to find someone who specializes in PTSD or abuse recovery. There are other rehabilitation-type techniques they can use to help diffuse or redirect internalized negative feelings, such as EMDR therapy.

    5. Emi*

      No experience here, but Carolyn Hax has a pretty good script for finding a therapist, in case you decide to go for it.

      1. Girasol*

        Good idea. I tried EAP once having heard friends say it was enormously helpful. The guy kept telling me, “It’s okay. God knows that you’re doing your best.” In our very religious part of the country that might have been just the right advice for someone, but I felt like a kid at a competition being recognized with a medal marked “Participant.” It wouldn’t have been hard to seek a different counselor and try again. In retrospect I wish I had.

    7. rage is my caffeine*

      Good friend of mine still struggles with some PTSD/rage issues several years after leaving the place we both worked, mostly because his wife still works there and thus he can’t escape hearing about the place entirely. He has said that therapy has been huge for him in starting to move past it. Please give it a try.

    8. TCO*

      Absolutely. In fact, I just started seeing a new therapist this week after a hiatus and even our first get-to-know-you meeting really helped me at work. My less-than-functional workplace is really the only significant source of stress in my life right now. It sounds like even some short-term work with a counselor (maybe through your EAP) could really help you get unstuck.

    9. Rebecca*

      Today is my last day at my job. I cannot tell you how relieved I am. I hope I don’t need this, but if I do, hoping for some good tips from the commenters.

    10. Golden Lioness*

      Yes, therapy definitely helps! It still takes time to get over the PTSD part of it. I still react based on past toxic job sometimes (mostly internally, expecting the worse, feeling like a beaten puppy) even though I have been in much better jobs since.

    12. MC*

      I have found going to the driving range, imagining the faces of the hated co-workers on the golf balls and then smacking the crap out of them worked incredibly well.

    13. Hrovitnir*

      I never saw a therapist about it but it sounds like a good idea. It certainly can’t harm, and if you’re getting PTSD/cPTSD symptoms there are specific techniques to address that that might be worth trying. Just talking to someone sympathetic without continuously bringing your friends and family down (*cough*) is probably worth it too.

      I actually still start ranting if I talk too much about my work, 4 years later. What fixed the feeling awful for me was getting the hell out and being somewhere that was completely different, as well as more supportive. I hope you are or can get to that place too.

      Much sympathies! People who haven’t had experience with toxic workplaces/families/friend groups sometimes really don’t understand how much it can fuck with your head.

      … just a little rant. I don’t know what was going on at your workplace, but what messed me up the most about mine was the mixture of being a job I loved with coworkers I loved, and being totally dysfunctional both in terms of business practices and awful bullying/unethical practices. It really was like a family – a toxic, emotionally abusive one full of gaslighting. And I still miss it in some ways. :/

    14. Lo Flo*

      Left toxic job two years ago, and I still can’t let go some of the bad memories. I am better now at setting boundries and speaking up when I am upset, rather than shutting down.

  30. squids*

    I’ve got a full-time, permanent employee for the first time in my career now! She’s been with the organization for longer than I have, and has been reporting to me for the past few months.

    I suspect she is used to far more micromanagement than I am inclined to give. She still regularly asks for permission to do things like shift her break times, attend optional staff development events, and that sort of thing. The situation has left me a bit uncomfortable — to me it’s dehumanizing to require permission for such basic details of someone’s work day. (We work in a field where a few things are time sensitive but most are not, and I’m not concerned about covering a desk or phone lines.)

    Do you think this will generally fade away/get better in time, as we get used to each other’s styles? It’s not something I want to have A Discussion about, but better that than leave it for years.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I think a simple, “Daphne, I trust you to manage your schedule effectively and professionally; you don’t need to run these requests by me.” the next time she asks for your permission to do something should suffice.

      2. Fortitude Jones*

        Yup. When I came from a micromanaging environment to my first position at my current company, my new manager pretty much said that to me.

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      Well, it doesn’t have to be A “can I see you in my office” Discussion, it can be you stopping by her office/space and mentioning “I just want you to know I appreciate you and your work, and I fully trust you to manage your time while you’re in the office, so please feel free to take your break/lunch or attend XYZ training sessions without checking in…I’m happy for you to take advantage of them!”

      1. LawCat*

        A+

        Don’t be surprised if you have to repeat this occasionally. I and a former colleague went from a team with a toxic, micromanager to a different team with a manager who trusted us to manage our time and was totally reasonable. We both struggled a bit in shifting our perspective to, “Oh, our boss really does see as professional adults who can be trusted to do our jobs and manage our time.”

        We struggled because when you have had a toxic manager, that manager may say things sometimes that make you think you are trusted to do your job (“LawCat, no one is watching your time. You are one of the most reliable members of the team.”), but then do things that undermine that statement (“Email to team from manager: I need to know when you get here, when you take lunches, and when you leave.”) So coming from a place like that made it hard for us believe our new, reasonable manager really means it when she says we don’t need to send check in with her if we’ll be taking a longer lunch or running a quick errand.

        1. tigerlily*

          Yes, this kind of thing can be a very hard habit to break. I used to work for a parole program in CT where our movements were very regimented. I ran the front desk and absolutely could not leave the desk unless someone else was there to cover. We had a shared log where everything had to documented (9am Tigerlily on duty. 905am Tigerlily checked phone messages. 915am Tigerlily opened center for clients). We had very strict confidentiality policies where if I saw one of our clients on the street, I could not act as if I recognized them or approach them in any way unless they approached me first. And then as soon as I was in the center the next day I had to document that interaction in the log (even if the client DIDN’T approach me I still had to document that I had seen them).

          Now I work at a preschool and we’re so much more relaxed, but I know these habits are hard wired into me. I usually take my lunch break at noon, but if none of the other administrative staff are in the office it doesn’t even occur to me that I could leave until their back and telling me I didn’t need to wait for them. It baffles me to see our teachers and the parents of our students interacting on Facebook. And still after a year I catch myself marking down the time I’ve completed a project so I can correctly log it. It’s hard to break those habits that just become second nature to you.

    3. Camellia*

      Well, not A Discussion, but I think you could meet with her and outline your expectations. She may be relieved that she will now be treated like an adult. Or she may have some trouble adjusting and need your gentle encouragement to move toward that goal. But either way, she won’t know it’s okay if you don’t tell her it’s okay.

    4. NarrowDoorways*

      Wait until someone stops to let you know their going to the restroom. No, better yet, wait until you work somewhere that upper management flips out because they can’t find someone because they went to the restroom, and then demand you be told any time someone in your department leaves their desk.

      Wow I hated that job, and that man in management….

    5. Idiot with an email account*

      Have you told her clearly that this stuff is okay to do without your permission?

      A lot of managers would expect to be asked so I think you need to spell it out, if you haven’t.

    6. BRR*

      I think this could be an easy fix. You just need to establish how you want to handle these things. It can be difficult to figure out what is ok.

      And good for you because having a manager control those things is dehumanizing (unless your job requires that level of control).

    7. MC*

      It will get better, but a good step is to clarify what you need her to do to keep you informed. For example, I’ve had employees ask permission to take a day or week off. I tell them “You do not need to ask me permission to take time off. You need to tell me when you are taking time, what potential issues could crop up due to your absence and what you’re doing to manage risks.”

    8. Chaordic One*

      It certainly is worth having a brief discussion about and the excellent wording suggested by “Not a Real Giraffe” or “Ibsen Takes Tea” would be an excellent way to go about it. It shouldn’t take more than a minute or two.

      I previously had a boss who was like you. After she was promoted to a new position, the new boss was a micro-manager. It was painful having to go back to asking permission to do every little thing (like leaving to get a cup of coffee or go to the restroom).

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Oh dear.
      Please lay out your expectations on the first day of work.
      How is she supposed to know what you want?

      There is no need for you to feel discomfort, you’re the boss and it’s your job to explain what you expect.

      See, there’s all kinds of bosses out there. If you leave her to figure out what you want she will default to worst case scenario boss to protect herself.

      And others are right, it is not A Discussion. No more so than telling her where the restroom or water fountain is A Discussion. She can’t mind read. It’s an act of kindness and your responsibility not to make her guess what kind of boss you are and what your expectations are.
      Please do this soon. And as suggested, you can do it when you walk past her desk or if she asks again or whatever comes up first. But please do it soon.

  31. Sack of Benevolent Trash Marsupials*

    Pet peeves – workplace types

    The Self-Appointed Chief
    Learns of projects tangentially, sends out emails designating tasks for people he or she does not manage. Likes to be thought of as a ‘doer,’ behavior may be aimed at looking good to higher ups on email chains. Does not typically respond positively to actual requests for assistance.

    The Wordsmith
    All emails are a page long. Paragraphs, if used, are giant blocks of text. Emails contain words like ‘whilst’ and ‘thusly.’ Offers unsolicited grammatical/usage error feedback, frequently incorrect. Offers to write or edit documents for others because of superior writing skillset.

    The Chatterbox
    Drops by your desk just to chat, particularly if you have a pressing deadline. Cannot express a thought of three syllables in fewer than five hundred words. Lacks awareness of social cues. Engages in bathroom chatting even after parties have entered stalls. Frequently makes ill-informed declarative statements that hinder escape by prompting further conversation.

    The Non-Responder
    Two principal subtypes: the Black Hole and the Too Late. Black Hole may turn out later to have changed positions or left altogether, but will not leave a forwarding message. The Too Late will respond to the doodle poll once the meeting has been scheduled, and possibly after he or she has accepted the invitation. Other varieties of the non-responder include the member of a workgroup who will not respond to the initial meeting request or any follow ups, but will immediately respond that he or she can’t make it once the calendar invitation has been sent. See also: Profoundly Unhelpful Person.

    The Profoundly Unhelpful Person
    Responds exclusively in the negative, all emails fewer than five words long. Does not offer alternative meeting times or suggest more appropriate contact. Unwilling to direct query to correct person/department. This person tends to be a long-time employee with massive institutional knowledge.

    The Random Responder
    Initiates new conversations by responding to last email you sent, regardless of subject. Resulting email trail impossible to follow. May reply to a query weeks later in an unrelated email string. Also tends to be a long-time employee whose advice is indispensable.

    The Cryptic
    Responds to all ‘pick option one or two’ emails with ‘yes’ or ‘sounds good.’ Forwards emails to you without explanation. Copies you on email replies that don’t appear to have anything to do with you. Sends ‘tentative’ responses to previously agreed-upon meeting time invitations. Spells out action items only when they are already obvious. Frequently unclear whether person has read email he or she is responding to. Tends to be your boss.

    Feel free to add your own!

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      The Reset Button
      Brings up a minor workflow or policy point as Needing Attention, up to and including a series of separate meetings to resolve. Six months later sends out alarmed emails asking why Minor Point has been changed, as “We don’t do it this way.”

    3. Brogrammer*

      Oh man, I’ve been guilty of being the Black Hole, but it’s always because I’m waiting on someone else for vital information and I’ve run out of ways to say so.

    4. vanBOOM*

      Ha! I’m a bit of the Wordsmith type, but only in length. I at least try to stop, and know better than to police others’ grammar/spelling (especially when my own skills are not great).

      I have…maybe a bit of a sad one to add? Curious to see whether anyone else has one of these at their org, or if it’s just a phenomenon at some of the orgs I’ve worked at.

      The Charity Worker
      This worker does their job–and all the undesirable elements of many other people’s jobs, including but not limited to managing lunch orders, setting up tables for events, doing research for others on topics they could have easily Googled themselves in less than 5 seconds, etc. They seem unusually “into” their job, to the point where they plan to keep working on those occasions where the org gives employees the afternoon off because they’re “not sure what else they’d do” anyway. They usually don’t get paid well, and the tasks/extra work they constantly take on aren’t the kinds of work that will ever help them get a raise or promotion.

      1. Sack of Benevolent Trash Marsupials*

        Uh huh. This person also volunteers to foster too many homeless pets and is consistently taken advantage of in the workplace.

        2. Kikiluv*

          Oh nooooo this is me. I haven’t gotten a raise/promotion in 5 years am always doing the little things– walking older coworkers through how to use online forms, cleaning up the coffee station when customers leave it a mess, etc. I do like it though! And yes I’m trying to convince my husband to get a foster dog.

    5. Lily Evans*

      The Rock Lord
      Has possibly been living under a rock for the last decade, as far as technology is concerned. Prints out emails and hand delivers them instead of forwarding them. Doesn’t know how to use Microsoft Word. Had never even heard of mail merge (and would open 20 draft emails to copy and paste things into instead. And genuinely thought it was super efficient).

      1. Janice in Accounting*

        You’ve met my former counterpart. She was recently laid off, and I found a bunch of hyperlinks for all our intranet shortcuts cut out from a word doc and put in her desk drawer.

        1. Nancie*

          That is amazing. I imagine it looked a bit like confetti, with lots of small strips of paper scattered about? And at the same time, I’m imagining a sort of CGI world where there are literal hyper-links scattered around the interior surface of the drawer that can be poked to do …something linky.

      4. Seattle Writer Gal*

        “Prints out emails and hand delivers them instead of forwarding them. Doesn’t know how to use Microsoft Word.”
        I honestly thought this was urban legend. Until I received one of these print outs with my name written on it from my new boss, the director of digital marketing. This happened in 2016, btw.

    6. rage is my caffeine*

      Had a boss who was the Chatterbox, except we called her the Black Hole, because once you were sucked into her office, or even within three feet of her, you could never get out. :)

    7. Janice in Accounting*

      Make Work/Cruise Director

      I have worked with this person at every job. She has absolutely no interest in performing the job she was hired to do, instead most of her time is spent gabbing with coworkers about nothing at all work-related in between taking breaks, calling/texting her family and friends, and providing continuous unsolicited updates about said texts (“[Daughter’s name] has been in the McDonald’s drive-through for 20 minutes”] while you’re trying to work.

      She frequently misses deadlines because when she DOES work, she spends time doing low-priority projects that she finds more interesting. She has eight emails to return, but instead she has decided to rename the files on the server, reorganize the break room and plan an office potluck or happy hour. If you don’t participate in the potluck or happy hour she takes personal offense.

      When it comes to her actual high-priority tasks, every day is like it’s her first week. What font do we use for this report? Where on the server do I save this?

    8. seriouslywtf*

      Here’s The Thing
      Sends you an email to tell you a thing. Also leaves you a voicemail in case you don’t check your email. Comes by your office juuuuuuust to make sure you know the thing. Repeats the thing three or four times before you are allowed to be released from the conversation. Instant messages you about the thing at 4:30 just in case you forgot.

    9. LawCat*

      These are great!! I admit to sometimes being a Black Hole, but that is usually when I have received something from a Self-Appointed Chief.

    10. Emilia Bedelia*

      The Unnecessary CC’er- CC’s anyone potentially involved with the email. Resulting email chains have up to 20 people who are irrelevant to the discussion.
      The “Can’t Hardly Wait”- Follows up emails after 1 day to ask for a response, generally asking for long, in depth answers to complex questions. When combined with Unnecessary CC’ers and “Non Responders”, results in days of completely unnecessary email for everyone involved.
      The Selective Reader: Leads you to wonder if they are, in fact, illiterate, because they never seem to read any part of the emails that they respond to asking for clarification.
      My personal (least) favorite:
      The Complainer: Fully grown adults with decades of professional experience who fall to pieces when they are mildly inconvenienced, and cannot be bothered to take 10 minutes to attempt to understand whatever problem they’ve encountered before having a fit about it. As of those gosh darned entitled Millenials who demands everything on a silver platter, I just wonder how they made it this far.

      2. some1*

        The Time Traveler: takes a week of PTO and comes back and responds to emails without reading them all or turning on conversations. Responds to the first of many emails in the thread from Monday at 8:30, “Some1, can you help Client A with this?” Me: “Yeah, Jeff, we got it done last Monday at 9:00, if you’d finish reading all of your emails.”

      3. Rebecca Too*

        I’ve worked with The Complainer at every single job I’ve had. Closely related is The Death Gripper; the person who complains about everything they “have” to do, yet won’t let go of anything, even (especially?) when help is offered. They both drive me crazy!

    11. LizB*

      The Life Coach
      Has a platitude for every situation, and responds to actual problems with motivational slogans instead of useful information. When the team is facing a crisis, takes up seemingly endless swaths of time spouting encouraging nonsense instead of letting people get their actual work done. Pushes for all sorts of team-building activities and outings that nobody is really interested in to “build morale.” Probably considers themselves a great leader.

    12. You're Killing Me Smalls*

      The Learned Helpless
      Offloads job duties on colleagues by claiming “oh, I’m so dumb, I could never learn how to do this! you do it so well, though!” on a continuous basis. Most frequently evident in older employees, who abdicated responsibility for updating their work skills circa 1983. Preys on vulnerable Millennials.

    13. Janice in Accounting*

      The Streamliner

      Cuts everyone else out of the email chain and replies only to one or two people, leaving everyone else out of the loop and causing confusion.

      1. Sack of Benevolent Trash Marsupials*

        These are awesome. Streamliners and Unnecessary CC:ers always seem to coexist in the same habitat.

    14. Jersey's Mom*

      The Judge
      When tasked with handling documents dealing with procedures, regulatory or legal issues, refuses to handle documents without a long drawn out monologue about said procedure, regulatory or legal issue. Generally begins with “I completely disagree with this and think the gov’t/legal system should be completely changed”, modulating to “I think we should not be required to submit this document”, then ending with “I don’t have time to work with documents that I think are wrong”.

    15. Lily Evans*

      I have another one:
      The Personal Caller
      Who is just always. on. the. phone. For hours at a time. I’ve worked with two of them now and it drives me batty.

    16. Jules the First*

      The Time Zone
      Pathologically incapable of arriving anywhere at a specified time or concluding a meeting within the appointed time but somehow always genially baffled that, although they’ve showed up for our 2pm meeting at 5.30pm, it isn’t still 2pm…because it’s 2pm somewhere….

    17. Not So NewReader*

      Aww, we need to pause for a moment to remember the Great Undoer.
      This is the person who goes through right behind you and tears things down right while you are setting them up. Yes, line up items 1-15 on table A, proceed to do the same on table B. Half way through table C, turn around and realize, table A has been cleared off and table B is half way cleared off.
      “What are you doing?”
      “I am undoing this.”
      “I just set it up.”
      “yep”
      “So what are you doing?”
      “I am undoing this.”

      grrrr.

    18. Nicole*

      The Random Responder is the worst! If I send you two emails with wildly different topics, don’t put your response to both emails in your reply!

      My additions:

      The Attachment Dummy
      This person either forgets to attach a file or instead of replying to your inquiry with the requested file attached, sends you a whole new email with the attachment so now the thread is broken.

      The Subject Line Impaired
      Every subject line is “question” or something equally vague and unhelpful.

      1. rubyrose*

        Or the person who never, ever puts something on the subject line! I worked with one of these people once; he had a masters!

  32. Temperance*

    How do you deal with coworker resentment when you get a “perk” or flexibility that they don’t have?

    I’m in Philly and my train is impacted by the strike. I was very ill earlier this year, and as a result, I don’t have a ton of stamina. I can walk etc. just fine, and I don’t look sick or disabled, but I almost passed out waiting in line on Wednesday because my body can’t handle standing for that long.

    I can flex my schedule to leave early so I can catch a train pre-lines. I’ve gotten some snotty remarks from coworkers about it. What’s a good response? (I snarked to the SEPTA guy who told me, oh-so-helpfully, that they couldn’t give me any accommodations because other people might get annoyed that those people should also spend a week in the ICU.)

    1. LawCat*

      The most I’d do is just shrug and say, “I have worked my schedule out with my manager.” The end.

      1. Temperance*

        The people who work for SEPTA customer service are mostly rude and/or useless. There are some decent people, but they are few and far between. It took a lot for me to ask for accommodations, and to be told by some idiot that I need to carry my own chair to the back of the line and wait really set me off. When I pointed out that physically, it wouldn’t be possible for me to carry a chair around like that, I was told there was nothing that they could do.

        I ride the train, and we were royally screwed all summer. SEPTA never apologized to us or tried to make it right. Meanwhile, my commute time more than tripled, and the people in CS were … uninterested and uninformed, to say the least.

        1. Anna*

          These people are raging flaming assholes. Just…I can’t even fathom where they’re coming from.

    3. Sunflower*

      Can you tell your coworkers to ask for flexibility as well?

      As you saw I stated upthread, my company is doing a carpool program. While that might not be possible for you guys to reimburse parking, can the company do anything to help? HR provided us a list with everyone’s zip codes so we could set up carpools(parking split a few ways helps a lot). Also HR pretty much told all our managers that they should be as flexible as possible with employees schedules and expect delays or people needing to leave early or possibly have unplanned absences. However, we are all expected to work our full hours so coming in late or leaving early is to be made up in some way(short lunch, PTO, etc)

    4. zora*

      I don’t have great advice, but I sympathize! My bus has been super packed recently, and I found out I still can’t stand for the ride without getting dizzy, so I have to awkwardly ask for a seat all the time. It’s no fun having a wimpy body and having to deal with these things where people think you are getting special treatment.

      Good luck, I hope they can end the strike soon!

      1. Temperance*

        It’s so difficult! People can be awful about it, especially if you don’t *look* disabled or unhealthy.

        I’ll never forget the nasty old bag at my ENT’s office who started making snarky comments about me playing peek-a-boo with a little kid, because the kid didn’t want to look at her. “It must be so nice to be young and healthy and not scare away little kids”. I was barely able to walk at that point, and that little kid was a welcome distraction from the fact that I had almost died and was just released from the hospital 3 days prior. Seeing her witch face turn bright red in humiliation when I got up and struggled to cross the room made me feel great.

    5. Not my normal alias*

      “Must be nice!”

      “Yes, it IS nice that the boss is allowing me the accommodations I need while I recover from a very serious illness. Of course, it would be even nicer not to need those accommodations…”

    6. Lo Flo*

      I have a number of small over the body bags that I can stash things in, and they and keep my hands free.

  33. Emi*

    Dress code-ish question: What should I, as a pocketless woman, do with small items like my phone, keys, pens when I’m leaving my office to go to something in another building? It seems weird to bring my whole bag, but it also seems weird to bring in a seperate little purse, and it’s annoying to take them loose (especially with jangly keys). My current strategy is to wear my jacket for the pockets, but this is going to make less sense in May. Anyone have a solution, or is this just one of the annoying things about the pocketless state of women’s fashion?

    1. J*

      A wristlet. Yes, it’s a separate little purse, but you get used to it. Better than carrying your keys and phone and pen in your hand.

    2. Murphy*

      It’s just annoying. I usually just take things loose. But they make those clutch wallets that you can usually fit a phone in, or just a small clutch that you can attack to your wrist so you don’t have to carry it a ll separately.

    4. Stellaaaaa*

      My “work purse” has a very long shoulder strap that I can wear crossbody-style. Wearing it that way seems more casual somehow.

    5. Stephern*

      I have a wallet/phone case. When you close it, it looks like a wristlet, but your phone is attached inside, and there are places for cards, ID, etc. Occasionally I will attach my needed keys (only two or three) to the removable handle.

    6. lionelrichiesclayhead*

      Definitely an unassuming wristlet or a pencil type pouch. Or even a padfolio that has extra pockets/room for those things.

      1. Paige Turner*

        I have what my friend calls my “building inspector clipboard” which holds my phone, pens, lip balm, etc. Very handy and not dorky at all ;)

    7. Also pocketless*

      I hate the lack of pockets in women’s clothing. I get around it by putting my keys and any ID/money I need in my bra. I either slide my phone up my sleeve or carry it in my hand. I don’t even need to own a purse. I realize this may not work for everyone but it works for me no problem.

      1. Troutwaxer*

        I think there should be a special holiday where all the women go to the mall. And each women hits a store and picks out 10-12 outfits. Then, at the checkout counter, the women all say “Hold on a second,” and they look the outfits over, and say, “wait a minute, this has no pockets. You can put this entire outfit back. And look, this outfit has no pockets either. You can put this outfit back.” The ultimate goal is to not buy anything that day. This holiday should be celebrated at least once a year until the fashion industry gets the point.

        1. Starbuck*

          I know you’re joking, but this is just a terrible idea- very inefficient and unkind. Making a ton of extra work for low-level retail employees is extremely unlikely to change anything in the fashion industry but is guaranteed to be highly unpleasant for the workers, who of course have no control over whether or not a given item of clothing has pockets.

      1. zora*

        This is what I used in my last meeting heavy job. Always had my leather portfolio to carry my notebook, pens, badge, keys and other necessities to other buildings.

      3. Not my normal alias*

        This is what I do. It feels more “worky” than a wristlet. If you don’t need to carry a lot, a phone wallet with a wriststrap is nice too.

      4. nerfmobile*

        I used to have a leather portfolio that zipped up – I could fit my notebook, pens, id/money, office keys, phone, etc. in it. Or go full-on backpack. In my current office we are all in one building so I just stack my laptop, tablet, notebook, phone, and external mouse all in a pile to tote around when needed (and usually end up dropping phone or mouse somewhere along the way).

    9. Persephone Mulberry*

      Third-ing a smaller wristlet/clutch/crossbody that you can keep handy for throwing small things in when moving around during the work day.

      Much as I love summer, I also love fall just for the reintroduction of outerwear with nice roomy pockets because it means I don’t have to carry a purse for a few months.

    10. Rebecca*

      Oh, I loathe the fact that many women’s clothes have either no pockets, or worse, fake pockets. It’s so inconvenient! I go out of my way to make sure the pockets are both real and functional if at all possible. It’s like someone decided we just don’t need them, and that’s what our purses are for.

    11. MC*

      Wristlet or a stylish pencil case or repurposed makeup bag. I toss in a couple of pens, credit card, phone, lipstick, tampon, mouse if I’m going to be running around a bit from building to building.

    12. Mander*

      I Nth the pencil case/clutch idea. I often use one in my handbag to corral that kind of stuff anyway, so it is easy to just grab the pencil case.

      And the lack of pockets (or worse, super tiny pockets that everything falls out of) irks me to no end. I have several ideas in my head for adding pockets to existing clothing but so far I haven’t actually executed any of them.

  34. Anon From Home!*

    I asked my manager to be permitted to begin working remotely full time starting next month. We have set a precedence for this both with other managers (my peers) and staff. I got a…weird response.

    Instead of saying yes or no, he started talking about whether or not I’d like to look at a new position in the company. Honestly, it freaked me the heck out. I have another meeting today with him and I plan on trying to pin him down to find out whether this means “no, you will not be permitted to do your current job remotely” or whether this means “yes, but if there is another position that would work let’s also use this as a chance to look there.”

    The other positions mentioned were admin-type roles and I am 100% not interested in those and made that very clear. Not only would they be a major pay cut, the work just doesn’t appeal to me.

  35. NarrowDoorways*

    I have a semi-hypothetical question.

    So I have a co-worker, Bob, who is likely on the autistic/Asperger’s spectrum. He can do his job in IT, is very dedicated, and has been with the company at least 10 years. But his people skills are basically non-existent. In a lot of cases, if he says something wrong or behaviors awkwardly, we dismiss it or try to explain why it’s not appropriate, but there’s a clear lack of understand why what he did/said wasn’t appropriate. Some examples are interrupting a conversation two women are having about cupcakes to talk about his love of “orgasm cupcakes;” when someone made a face in my direction last week, he exclaimed, “Wow, he looks like he’s looking at a pile of garbage;” the worse was a conference call last month with the company that owns our company, in which he explained what he believed to be the failings of our CEO…in front of our CEO.

    His boss left a while back and that management position is open. I doubt he wants the job and isn’t technically qualified anyway, but in a hypothetical scenario, how would it be explained to someone that their lack of soft skills make them a bad fit for managerial duties? Just by saying that?

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m not an Asperger’s expert, but I have worked with students who have Asperger’s or are on the autism spectrum, and just because they don’t naturally pick up on social cues doesn’t mean they are incapable of modifying behavior or learning what affects others negatively. He doesn’t get a pass, as an adult, for not knowing what’s inappropriate for the workplace. Can you and your co-workers (and his manager) help him learn that stuff? Sure. Is he still ultimately responsible for behaving professionally? Absolutely.

      1. NarrowDoorways*

        Good insight, thank you! I don’t have a lot of experience in this area and none of my current coworkers do either. We try to steer him away from problem issues, but it doesn’t always work.

        We had a period of time where he kept showing up for work in horribly stained, fifthly clothes. He wore only those clothes for years. After being spoken to a few times, yes, he ultimately bought two new shirts and just rotates them every other day, but the issue is still there that he gets food and drink smeared all up and down his front and, with only two “new” shirts, they would wear out quite quickly even if he was washing them frequently.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Sorry—didn’t see the actual question was about him being up for a managerial position. Yes, “soft” (people) skills are actually way more important in a managerial position than they are in a strictly technical one (though really he should have both).

    4. Brogrammer*

      It doesn’t actually matter if Bob is on the spectrum or not. If he lacks the skills required for the position, then he’s not qualified and shouldn’t get the position even if he wants it.

      Autistic people may have a harder time learning social skills than the rest of us, but they’re perfectly capable of learning those skills if they want to. If Bob is old enough to have a job, he’s old enough to have memorized that you don’t make sexual remarks in the workplace, even if he doesn’t intuitively understand why it’s inappropriate.

      1. NarrowDoorways*

        That makes sense. I suppose in my head I was trying to visualize if there would be legal issues for denying him the position if he decided to go a route of a protected category, which I assume this would be covered under. But it’s true, he is an adult perfectly capable of living on his own and performing complex work tasks.

    6. Dzhymm, BfD*

      I *am* on the Asperger’s spectrum, but people who know me are surprised to hear this. What this meant for me is that I have had to explicitly learn certain social and other “soft” skills that most people naturally pick up on (the way I like to put it is that this is the sort of thing most people get with their mother’s milk and I was a bottle baby). Things like eye contact — making eye contact and then periodically breaking it so that people know I’m connecting with them but I’m not staring at them. Conversational give-and-take: looking for the signs of someone zoning out and either changing the subject or backing off. Perhaps the biggest lesson I learned is When To Shut Up. Just because something pops into my head does NOT mean I have to say it RIGHT THAT SECOND. I can file it away for another point in the conversation, and it may never get used at all, but at least I didn’t stick my foot in my mouth.

      The point is, social skills are *skills*; not everyone has them at the same level, but they can be learned.

      1. Jules the First*

        Hear hear. I’m undiagnosable thanks to a very patient therapist when I was a child who coached me intensively on ‘appropriate’ behaviour (which sounds like he was super harsh, but really what he did was make his office a safe space where I could ask all the stupid questions everyone else seemed to think were obvious and help me come up with rules of thumb). 25 years later, I still rely on his rules for managing social interactions and I only wish he were still around so that I could thank him for everything he did for me….

      2. Voldemort*

        That’s an excellent point. Though I am not on the Asperger’s spectrum, I used to be extremely awkward in my teens, and though there is still an occasional situation where I struggle, I’ve mostly learned. I used to be really socially anxious, but I just exposed myself to increasingly difficult situations until I actually became quite outgoing. A lot of it is just practice, even if you do Google afterwards whether your behaviour was appropriate.

        The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time is a book where the main character is autistic. One thing that stuck with me was how he carried around a chart of facial expressions and consulted it to gauge others’ emotions. Although that’s not the point the author was making, I always identified strongly with that – ie. if you’re not a natural at these sort of interactions, you may be able to “cheat” around it through notes and practice, just like people do with other skills they find challenging.

        I don’t mean to lighten anyone’s experience, social skills are hard, and I’m speaking from neurotypical privilege here. But don’t just chalk up everything to your co-worker’s spectrum!

      3. Simms*

        I have Asperger’s too and while yes it is frustrating when I slip up I am perfectly capable of 98% of what this guy isn’t doing. I would be mortified to know I was coming into work regularly with stained or dirty clothes, this guy seems not to care. I also try very hard not to say things that are weird or make people feel uncomfortable, also this guy seems not to care.

        To be frank, this guy may have a mental disorder but it is definitely NOT Asperger’s or a flavor of Autism (given the information provided). This is coming from having family that has Asperger’s, high functioning Autism and low functioning Autism as well as knowing people on the spectrum. It is starting to get a little bit frustrating how everyone seems to jump to those when someone is being objectionable at work when most the time they have none of the signs except saying inappropriate things.

        1. Mander*

          My husband has Asperger’s, and while he sometimes comes across as weird or standoffish he doesn’t have a complete lack of soft skills or personal hygiene issues like the guy in this example does. He would never wear dirty clothes or make inappropriate remarks like that. Understanding other people’s emotional responses doesn’t come naturally to him, he can get overwhelmed and have meltdowns if he doesn’t make appropriate plans to cope with things that stress him out, and he has a sometimes irritating tendency to ramble on about his favorite subjects.

          I suppose he is a mild case but it does get frustrating to hear so many people jump to the conclusion that someone acting outside of social norms must be autistic/have Asperger’s when really many of the behaviors they describe are not at all typical of someone on the spectrum.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      I think that describing various tasks in a manager’s list of duties would help to explain why he is not qualified currently. I am thinking of giving employee’s their evaluations, etc. Granted he could change and the company could consider him in the future if there is an opening. Limiting the discussion to current time and talking about the skills needed for the job right now, would be helpful to explain why. Hopefully, a short list of a few things that hits the high points and not a detailed, soul-crushing list.

  36. 997*

    I will be leaving my job in a short while and I was wondering if anyone could advise me on who to approach for a letter of reference? I have a direct supervisor who is the obvious choice to approach. However he isn’t too enthusiastic about his (public service) job. The other option is our manager, who I have worked with often. She is very involved in her job, and has taken an interest in my progression, and is quite impressed with me. I feel like I would get a better reference from her. So my question is, is it inappropriate to get a reference from the manager as well as the supervisor?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I don’t think the direct supervisor has to be enthusiastic about his job in order to provide an enthusiastic recommendation about YOU and your work. I would ask both; you’ll likely need more than one reference any way.

      Speaking of, unless this is for academia, it’s unlikely that you’ll need actual *letter* of reference — though you know your industry’s culture better than I, an internet stranger!

    2. Temperance*

      Letters of reference aren’t really a thing anymore. I would ask if you can use a person as a reference, but not get a letter.

      1. 997*

        The job I’m in currently required letters of reference from two previous employers, so I’m reluctant to leave somewhere without one, just in case.

  37. I am not my parents*

    I’ve just moved back to my hometown, and am working in an HR department with the recruiting team. My hometown is dominated by a couple big employers, and while I don’t work for any of them, my company caters to those employers. It’s not exactly small town, but my parents are very involved in the community and have both worked for these big employers. What I’m running into all of a sudden is candidates pointing out that they know my parents from XYZ, and it’s driving me bonkers. I was doing recruiting in a really big city before, so I only ever had connections to people through my alma mater, and no one ever brought it up. It really rubs me the wrong way when someone (who is trying to get a job) seems to be trying to make a connection to me. These are not people I know, they are just people who are a part of my parents’ (very large) network. I think it would feel different if these were people I had actually met at some point in my life, but I legitimately have no idea who these people are (and some of them even tell me that they had to look me up on facebook to confirm that they know my parents!).
    Is this as weird as it feels to me, or am I just being overly sensitive to it?

    1. J*

      Caveat: I am mildly misanthropic/selectively-social/kind-of-a-jerk

      They *are* trying to make a connection. It makes sense to smile and nod in acknowledgement–“My mother is really active in the community. I hear that all the time.”–and then move forward as if it has no impact on your decision-making. Because it doesn’t.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        LOVE this.
        It even allows you to vent a little, OP, when you say. “I hear this all the time.” You can softly make the point for them to move on from talking about your parents.

    2. Susan*

      I think you may be reading too much into it. It’s pretty normal for people to want to point out mutual acquaintances. I can see how it might seem a little weird for people to bring up your parents, specifically (as opposed to a former coworker, former classmate, etc.), and I can also see how it must be annoying to hear the same thing so often, but each person who says it probably just considers it an offhand remark, friendly chitchat. It probably never occurred to them that you hear it so often.

      1. Emi*

        I agree with this–tons of people point out mutual acquaintances and other connections in a totally inane, chitchatty way.

      2. Anna*

        Exactly this. My husband’s uncle worked for the same company for 40+ years. I now work for a company that interacts with that company regularly. When I meet someone from there I sometimes ask if they knew Husband’s Uncle and tell them what the connection is. It’s just a way to acknowledge they know your parents and is not a big deal. It’s like asking about the weather or how your weekend was. It’s social infill.

    3. Pari*

      Overly sensitive. in smaller communities this is inevitable. They’re just making small talk and trying to network. The positive side is you can ask your parents about them if you are going to consider them for a job.

    4. BRR*

      I can understand how it feels weird, but it’s very common to try and find a connection to another person. If they somehow brought it up in a way that felt like they were trying to use it as a competitive advantage then it wouldn’t be appropriate. I would try and think of it the same you would think of any other way someone might try and connect like if you’ve lived in the same city.

    5. Jules the First*

      It is both – it’s very weird to be recognised for your parents or relations (I look like my maternal grandmother, who was always very active in the community, and so people would randomly stop me on the street or in shops and say things like ‘oh, you must be one of Nita’s granddaughters’ and strike up a conversation; perhaps worse, my father was a public defender with a collection of unusual cars, so I used to get pulled over all.the.time as a teenage driver by traffic cops who just wanted to say hi….awkward!) but the good news is that this will fade as you get more used to being in your hometown. J’s wording is a great choice….I’ve also used the big-smile ‘I sure am!’ and change the subject abruptly. it will get better – I promise!

  38. Misclassified*

    So this is an odd situation.

    My job (very small office; two owners, two people including me in our associate roles, and support staff) has been misclassifying me as an independent contractor for a few years now. I ran up against my statute of limitations to file amended returns this past April to start getting FICA (employer-side) taxes back for the first year I was misclassified. I timely filed everything back in March, including my Form SS-8 Request for Determination. My bosses were contacted in early July regarding my Request and were rather angry about it. However, I was not fired at that time (I live in a strict at-will state which does not recognize the public policy exception, so they would have been legally within their rights to fire me). In September, the IRS issued their determination that I had been misclassified as an independent contractor and that I should properly be classified as an employee for tax purposes. I have begun to receive my refund checks from the IRS. I am still not fired.

    My bosses are still quite displeased. They assign me little to no work (which I personally think is them trying to set it up so that I’m fired “for cause” for not being productive). While in the past I was left alone plenty of times to close the office, I have noticed that in the past few months I am never the last one to leave, even if leaving rather late. Interpersonally, they are quite cool to me. I am currently job searching. However, I also believe that they may fire me soon, possibly before I find a new job. Let’s say that is the case and I am fired soon. In interviews, what would be the best way to answer a hypothetical “so why did you leave your old job” question? I’m usually honest, but I know the real answer may give interviewers pause since I am a whistleblower. I would also want to indicate, if either fired or still working, that my current job cannot be trusted if contacted for a reference.

    1. JLK in the ATX*

      First, as a VITA Tax Preparer, I work with these kinds of situations a lot because our low-income clients are often taken advantage of. Most of the time their claims are well after they’ve left that employer, and I’m sorry that you are being treated this way because you’re correcting a problem that they created (and illegally so). I’ve noticed an uptick in misclassified employees and I appreciate your courage (because it’s hard to convince someone to do this) in dealing with it.

      I don’t know what to say in the case of answering about your last job, when you’ve been fired. I’m sure it’s not going to be a great feeling, but I don’t think using ‘whistleblower’ should be part of your response. I’m sure someone else has a better response to this.

      1. Misclassified*

        Haha. No. I wouldn’t use the term whistleblower. I have thoughts in my head about how I would explain it, if I go the full honesty route, that wouldn’t use a loaded term like whistleblower.

    2. NarrowDoorways*

      Yeah, being misclassified sucks on many levels. I was a few years back, but because I wanted to stay with the company, I didn’t contest it. A few of my friends have also had this issue and basically everyone agrees: contest only if you’ll be moving on shortly.

      It’s not your fault, but it is what it is.

    3. Master Bean Counter*

      I’d put my money on the stance that they aren’t going to fire you. They are afraid. You brought a legitimate claim against them, that is costing them a lot of money now. They are afraid that if they fire you it could be seen as retaliation. What they will probably due is cut your work so you are bored and make your work life so miserable you’ll just quit. So just keep searching and you can say that you’re looking for something new at this point as there’s now room for advancement where you are now.

      1. Dzhymm, BfD*

        I Am Not A Lawyer, but doing things like cutting your work tasks or otherwise making things so unpleasant that you’ll quit is called “constructive dismissal” and it could legally be viewed as a form of retaliation.

        1. Master Bean Counter*

          Yes, but we are talking about people who didn’t know the difference between employee and contractor. I’m betting that they are trying to get the OP to quit.

    4. Natalie*

      Have you spoken to an employment attorney about this at all? Misclassification is a matter of FLSA compliance, so I believe you would be covered from retaliation under FLSA regardless of whether or not your state has whistleblower protection.

      1. Misclassified*

        This actually isn’t an FLSA issue. I generally meet the salary level (even after the December 1 increases), salary basis, and duty tests to be exempt. It’s purely about being misclassified for FICA (specifically employer-side) purposes. And unfortunately, unlike almost every other federal law which protects workers, the Internal Revenue Code does not have a provision which protects workers who file SS-8 Determination of Worker Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Withholding request.

    5. Golden Lioness*

      I would say that the nature of the projects you work on has changed and it’s no longer challenging/ a good fit / what you prefer to do, etc. They have as they no longer assign you good work tasks, no need to get into the reasons why.

      1. Misclassified*

        Yeah, I have plenty of great (and honest) answers to give when interviewing while still employed. I am just unsure, should I be fired, how I would answer why I was fired. I theoretically could give a vague but technically true answer like “they were engaged in illegal business practices, and when I spoke up, they terminated me.”

        1. Golden Lioness*

          Still a variation of the same thing. The nature of the work assignments changed, and as it was clear that my skill set and experience no longer fit the job, we unfortunately have to part ways… or something like that.

        2. Natalie*

          I am almost leaning towards explaining the IC issue, but using the passive voice in such a way that it omits your role in exposing it – i.e., “the IRS determined I was misclassified as an independent contractor. [Business] did not want to employ me directly.” I know that probably officially feels like lying to many people, but in my opinion its omitting information that a) will hurt you and b) has no relevance to your candidacy.

          1. Misclassified*

            That is about 90% of what I was leaning towards if the issue came up and merely omits a step I (actively) took in the process (but which I was thinking I would phrase somewhat passively – “the IRS contacted me about unpaid employer-side FICA taxes and I answered some questions which resulted in them determining that I was misclassified”). I think your wording gets the reason across fairly well without even mentioning I had a role in the process.

    6. Bellatrix*

      If you’ve been there for a few years, the fact that you’re looking won’t be conspicuous in any way. You can always use the good versions of “I want a challenge” as discussed here in a recent post: ie. I’m looking for something new because my current employer’s demands aren’t utilising my skills and I’d like to develop them.

  39. Murphy*

    Not trying to start anything here, but I found out today that our maternity leave is even worse than I thought. I would have been hoarding leave time if I’d known. Boo :(

      1. Murphy*

        Oh we don’t either. I knew that. But I can’t just take unpaid leave and eat the cost, because apparently you then have to pay back the employer paid portion of our health insurance, on top of already taking unpaid leave.

        1. Emi*

          Can you cancel or suspend your health insurance and get a cheaper plan on the marketplace? Idk how things would compare in your job/state but it might be worth looking into.

        2. YouDontKnowMe*

          That didn’t occur to me! My insurance is though my husband who does get paid leave, ironically he has enough time off banked to take the next 5 months off and still be paid. I sit here with 31 hours.

        3. BeezLouise*

          I was going to say that mine is the same (though they let me pay back the health insurance when I returned, spread out over six months) but if they’re making you pay back the EMPLOYER PAID portion too? That feels extremely shitty. I’m sorry.

        4. Jessie*

          Wait, what? Are you in the US? Is the unpaid leave FMLA? Usually paying back the employer-paid portion can happen only if you take the unpaid leave and then don’t return to work.

          1. Jessie*

            Want to add – if you are covered by FMLA, clarify with your employer. And go check out the Dept of Labor website (https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/1421.htm#2i) Because the FMLA law, if it applies to you, doesn’t generally allow companies to require employees to pay back the *employer* share of health premiums. Hopefully there is just a miscommunication/misunderstanding somewhere along the way.

            1. Murphy*

              Perhaps I misunderstood. It was confusing and somewhat overwhelming. I’ll clarify. Still, I had no idea I’d have to pay back any of it. If it’s just the portion that I pay, that’s much better, but still more than I want to be spending if I’m already not getting paid.

          2. Murphy*

            Yes and yes. Unless I misunderstood what our HR person said (which is possible) she said I’d have to pay back some or all of the employer paid health insurance if I take unpaid leave for at least half of the working days in a month.

            1. Jessie*

              Your HR person could also be…well… less than competent. So, if it helps, the way FMLA works is that you have to keep paying your portion of the health insurance and the employer has to keep paying its portion, and sometimes, if you do not return to work, you have to pay the employer back for their portion. But otherwise, you pay your share and they pay their share. And companies are allowed to have you pay your share in a variety of ways (you can pay it in advance, or send them a check at normal intervals during your leave, or when you get back you pay your share all then – you just have to arrange with them ahead of time).

              If the HR person insists that you have to pay the ENTIRE premium back, point them to this:

              https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs28a.pdf

              That has a helpful explanation – the only repaying employers can require is repaying the *employee* share of premiums, if the employer decides to pay it during the leave (they then have you pay it when you get back) or repay it all if you don’t come back.

              1. Murphy*

                Thank you, this is very helpful!

                I have faith in her competency, and much less in my understanding. I’ve reached out to her clarify and I must have misunderstood. Happy to know it’s not quite that bad, though still a bit worse than I was originally thinking. (I have a slow day today so I’m trying to theoretically work out how this will work, even though I have time to figure it out.)

                1. Murphy*

                  OK, went higher and spoke to central HR and they said this is incorrect, employee portion only. *whew* And she also invited me to a class/training on maternity/paternity leave next month.

              1. Jessie*

                Oops, sorry for the double post. Ha. I was too impatient and thought the first one just got lost.

    2. vanBOOM*

      I’m sorry. :( I’m not a parent or even a “kid person”, but it’s ridiculous how today’s American workforce is working in yesterday’s workplace that refuses to acknowledge who American workers really are.

    3. YourUnFriendlyPhlebotomist*

      I’m in the same boat, due in April and strangely just hoping that’s the absolute first thing the new president does. forget everything else, just pay us while recovering and bonding with the humans we just spent 10 months growing. Also a small bonus for creating the next generation of tax payers would be nice. -JustSayin

      1. Murphy*

        I’m due in April too! My husband said the same thing about hoping the president fixes this. Maybe in time for my next child, but probably not this one, sadly.

    4. Rebecca*

      My current company’s leave time is short term disability, which we pay for with a payroll deduction. It pays $200/week, but if you carry the insurance plan, those payments are deducted. So, biweekly insurance (health, dental, and vision) costs about $220/2 week paycheck. After taxes, we would be lucky to get $75/week. Woo.

      1. Student*

        You can also get short-term disability outside of employers through various insurance companies. It can be a pretty decent deal if you’re planning to get pregnant, and you can drop it once you’re no longer planning for a pregnancy.

  40. Jane D'oh!*

    I am in a master’s program for IT, for which my job is kindly providing partial tuition assistance. Since Monday night I have been locked out of their learning management software program and have been unable to submit assignments, take an exam, or perform required discussion group participation. The help desk keeps saying their “password reset tool” is down and that they are working on it. Anyone at the university who had their password expire within this time window is SOL until it is fixed.

    I spent my lunch and break times for the past two days on my personal phone trying to get answers from the school, trying to reach my professor to frantically beg for off-line access to the materials I need, and so on. My manager has overheard some of this drama, and is now questioning the value of an IT degree from a place this incompetent.

    I’m not sure he’s wrong, and frankly I’m not sure what to do.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Maybe the institution is horrible, but I’ve seen pockets of dysfunction at every educational institution I’ve worked at or attended. I wouldn’t write off the entire university just because of this debacle.

      1. rage is my caffeine*

        This. A thousand times. If it’s the most common educational software package, this kind of crap is not uncommon with them. The techie side of a university has absolutely nothing to do with the value of its educational offerings, even if said educational offerings are IT in nature. After all, it’s not like your professors are the ones doing the tech support that can’t get it back up and running again.

    2. Manders*

      A friend of mine was having a huge problem with a computer system at her school. It’s an Ivy League university.

      My boyfriend discovered, while trying to turn in his thesis at a prestigious college, that the IT staff had forgotten to switch the system out of testing mode so nothing anyone sent in was going through.

      For some reason, universities often have astonishingly poor IT, even when they otherwise have a great reputation. I think it has something to do with decisions made by committee at levels way above the workers who actually understand what’s going on.

      1. Lia*

        At every higher ed institution I’ve worked for, IT is badly-paid compared to the private sector, so turnover tends to be quite high and the workload heavy. There’s little room for advancement and less for training, and often the decisions for software and the like are made by administrators who sit through presentations and get dazzled by promises and then the rank and file have to try to make things work.

    3. CMT*

      Are the people teaching you the ones in charge of running this university’s technical infrastructure? If not, I wouldn’t worry that this is related to the quality of your instruction.

  41. Moonpie*

    I accepted a new position in my company this week and I am So Excited! It won’t be announced for a few days so I can’t talk about it anywhere but here. It will suit me to a T. I had reached a level where there was no clear onward/upward path, so I’m moving laterally into a stream where there are great future prospects. Wooo!

  42. Bigglesworth*

    I have a random update about my weird workplace. Now that we’re less than a month away from the new salary regulations being put in effect, I have started to ask around to see what my company is planning. No word from on high has been given and several salaried staff and their managers have openly said they don’t know what’s going to happen. Come to find out, our cabinet is waiting to see what the November elections have in store before approving the new changes. They’re hoping that the new president will say that the regulations are too much of a burden on businesses and will nullify the change.

    I have not heard of anyone receiving a raise and from my understanding, almost the entire campus is going to hourly on 11/28 if nothing changes. One on one meetings with HR concerning the DOL regulations are discouraged and no one knows how much they’ll be paid, no training has been done for those going from salary to hourly, etc. I think at this point it’s time to grab a bowl of popcorn and see how this plays out.

    1. anonykins*

      Just commented with a very similar scenario (also in higher ed). Haven’t heard about this ‘waiting for a new president’ business. That’s…one way to go about things, I guess

      Frustrated because other schools have already had this figured out for months, and many ARE getting the raise. But the rumblings tell me we’re going hourly, which is upsetting to me because of the emphasis my school is supposed to put on ‘people first’

      1. Bigglesworth*

        I am so sorry to hear that you’re in the same boat! When the DOL first made public the changes, I talked with HR to see if there was an inkling about what was going to happen…nothing. Now we’re so close to the deadline and other places have already made the change happen. My peers have no clue what’s their new pay is going to be or anything. Grrr….

    2. Leatherwings*

      What the eff? They know that regardless of what happens on Tuesday, the rule is going into effect Dec 1 right? And that rule changes take a ton of time? That’s just astonishingly ignorant, I’m sorry.

      1. Bigglesworth*

        No need to apologize. I completely agree. I thought when I first came on board that I’d really like working here (it’s my alma mater). Was I surprised at what went on behind the scenes! I could go on and one with all of the…interesting…decisions this place has made. Here’s the scary part – this isn’t the worst one they’ve made. :/

    3. vanBOOM*

      Wow. Their rationale for waiting to inform people of what’s going on is ridiculous. Are you sure that’s accurate? As in, do you trust your source? I’d be so wary of working there if I heard that.

      1. Bigglesworth*

        I’m actually pretty positive of the source. Also, have you read the “Religious Policy” question from earlier this year? That’s my company – so I have no doubts that there are questionable decision-making going on in the higher up levels.

        1. vanBOOM*

          I did read that one! Yikes. Well, I hope the election outcomes runs counter to your administration’s interests.

      3. Golden Lioness*

        Exactly! and even if they did now, they’d have to prepare a proposal and go to congress to get the new law changed… common sense: none!

        1. Natalie*

          They actually would not need to go to Congress, as this overtime change isn’t a new law at all. The regulation setting an overtime threshold is old law (the Fair Labor Standards Act) and the Department of Labor gets to decide what that threshold is. In this case, Obama directed the Secretary of Labor to update the threshold and they did. No Congress required.

          1. Bigglesworth*

            I didn’t know that! I thought Congress was required to get involved. I love days when I learn something new. Thank you!

            1. Natalie*

              Totally understandable, since a lot of people have been describing it as that. (Strangely, IMO, since our current Congress can’t be arsed to do anything, much less pass worker friendly legislation. But that’s besides the point.)

    1. Mockingjay*

      Geez, Mike C. I’m going to have nightmares tonight!

      {Chortle, falling off into a looong scream.}

      1. Mike C.*

        *interrupts current discussion*

        “Sorry I’m late, I’m here covering for my manager. Since this is my first time here, could you please bring me up to speed on this project?”

        “SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH”

  44. matcha123*

    I’m stuck in a bit of a rut.
    My job and coworkers are nice, but there’s not opportunity for growth. I need to move on, but I don’t feel like I’m good enough for anything. I’m also incredibly afraid of getting fired, falling into a bad job or something worse.
    I don’t have any support system or savings, so I have to be very cautious about my next move.
    I feel like I’m a failure and I should just resign myself to low-paying, unfulfilling jobs for the rest of my life. My friends are all upper-middle class and have strong family and friend support networks that allowed them the freedom to chase after jobs all around the country and world.

    I’ve felt like this for over a decade, and I can’t see an easy way of getting the motivation to apply to new jobs. Do any of you have websites or advice for someone who has no network, no family to lean on and no money for chance jobs? I think I can do a good enough job, but I’m no superstar. Why would anyone hire me at a good wage when there are literally thousands of people who could potentially do the same job and get support from well-off family?

    1. Dawn*

      OK first, breathe and also internet hugs because it sounds like you’re pretty down on life and that’s hard!
      Second, go read Captain Awkward- I know there are multiple questions in the archives that echo the sentiments you’ve put in this post!
      Third, your problems are not insurmountable. Sure, your life might be on “hard mode” compared to people you know who have extensive social networks and who come from middle-class backgrounds. You’re like the Lone Warrior Matcha, seeking destiny while facing every adversity life has to throw at you.

      So, let’s unpack. First of all, through your post there’s a current of “I’m not good enough.” Why are you not good enough? Not good enough for *what*, exactly? A defeatist mindset is going to end your Ultimate Quest For A New Job before it even gets started, so I strongly encourage you to spend some time on that mindset. If not therapy, then there are definitely online resources for working on self-esteem and self-worth- again Captian Awkward has some good recommendations for those.

      Secondly- “afraid of getting fired or falling into a bad job.” Ok that’s anxiety talking (hello Anxiety my old friend). Again, there are some great online resources out there for working through anxiety, again, Captain Awkward has some good recommendations for them. However, in the here and now, let’s look at that anxiety square in the face. Getting fired- is there any chance of that right now at all? Are you performing adequately at work? Good feedback? Then OK you’re not gonna get fired out of the blue. Falling into a bad job- there’s a TON of things you can do to vet a job before you accept an offer letter that will keep you out of a bad job. Looking at Glassdoor reviews, asking pointed questions in the interview (future open threads can help you with that), looking and listening for red flags during interviews (AAM has some great posts in the archives that can help you with that), and ultimately when you get a job offer, come post here in an open thread and ask us what we think!

      Third- no support system or savings. Alrighty, savings: that’s something you CAN work on, that you can start on immediately. The absolute BEST money advice website I have ever found is Bari Tessler- she’s a money therapist and is absolutely incredible at helping people unpack all of their anxieties about money (coming from a poor background, I had a LOT of those.) Support system: I take it to mean you have no family or friends to rely on? That does make your life way more hard mode than other people, but that’s not insurmountable. Have you looked into community support services where you live? Not if you need them now, but just to ease your mind in case you ever had to use them? Food pantries, shelters, emergency living assistance, reduced cost healthcare, etc? Not that you would ever need them, but just so you know what they are in case you ever needed them?

      Fourth: YOU. ARE. NOT. A. FAILURE. A failure doesn’t come to Ask A Manager’s open thread and go “hey, I need help.” A failure doesn’t have the drive to change their situation. A failure doesn’t have a job that is nice and co-workers who are nice. Your life might not be what you thought it would be, it might not be where you want it to be, but you certainly have not “failed”!

      Fifth: resigning yourself. OK so, getting from where you are now to Matcha’s Ultimate Perfect Dream Job And Life is not going to happen in one leap. It’s not going to happen in two leaps, or three, or four. It’s not going to happen in five, or six, or seven leaps. It’s going to be a bunch of itty bitty baby steps all leading up to Matcha’s Ultimate Perfect Dream Job And Life. So, start out and look at what your Ultimate is, and work backward until you get to steps that you can actually accomplish. Let’s say your Ultimate Dream is to have a condo in Miami overlooking the ocean. Ok one step down from that would be a condo overlooking the ocean somewhere that is not Miami. A step backward from that would be owning a condo anywhere. A step backward from that would be renting a condo anywhere. A step backward from that would be renting an apartment anywhere but your current city. A step backward from that would be renting a bigger place in your current city. Boom, there’s a goal that’s more attainable. So then you start working towards that goal- that smaller, attainable soon goal of renting a bigger place in your current city. No, it’s not that one big leap, but it’s still progress! Same with getting a new job- OK, so your next job probably isn’t going to see you being CEO of your own successful company (or whatever your Ultimate Job Fantasy is). However, if you know that one day you’d like to be CEO of your own company, work backward from that to get to a small step that you CAN accomplish. CEO of your own company -> CEO of someone else’s company -> VP at someone else’s company -> Manager at someone else’s company -> Any position at someone else’s company. Ok so that first step towards being CEO is to go get a job at someone else’s company! And maybe look into what you like to do that could earn you a few dollars on the side that could one day grow into your very own company- that concept is called passive income and there’s a ton of advice on the internet about how to do it.

      Sixth: motivation. Motivation IS. A. MYTH. Motivation is fickle and fleeting and completely unreliable. Discipline, however, is real, sustainable, immediate, and teachable. F!@# motivation! If you sit around and wait for motivation to strike, you’ll never do anything. Instead, work on your discipline- start small, say 10 minutes a day. Ten minutes! You can do anything for ten minutes! Day one, set a timer, sit down, and list out allll your goals, no matter how pie-in-the-sky they might be. Tell your anxiety to shut up for ten minutes and write them all down. Day two, tell your anxiety to shut up, set the timer, and start breaking down those goals into smaller steps. Day three, set the timer, and start working on how to go about doing those small steps. You asked for websites to help with this- I am A HUUUUUUUUUGE FAN of NerdFitness.com (it’s not just about fitness) and I absolutely love his book “Level Up Your Life.” It challenges you to change your way of thinking and look at life like a video game, and yourself as the main protagonist in your story. Things that you want to do become Epic Quests, and the steps that you have to do to get to where you wanna be become Quests that you accomplish and earn points doing to “Level Up Your Life”. It sounds hokey, but I swear it works.

      Seventh: Why would anyone hire you. LET ME LET YOU IN ON A SECRET: 99.9% of employees are not rockstars. They are not super special snowflakes. They’re not incredible, or amazing, or even that great. They’re just people. They come to work, they’re pleasant, they do a good enough job, and then they go home. ANOTHER SECRET: Employers are *estatic* to hire people who will come to work, do a good job, and go hom. *ESTATIC*. Thrilled. Hiring managers are over the moon to hire people who are “fine”, “average”, dare I say “boring”. There is nothing wrong with “average”. Remember that if you’re average you’re doing better than literally half of the population!

      Eighth: “Dawn, why the hell are you writing all of this?” Because Matcha I could have written *THIS EXACT POST* four years ago. Exact. Almost down to the letter (except my family is still around). I’m telling you that it gets better. You can make it better. You have, within you, even if you don’t know it, the ability to make it better. Even if you don’t believe it right now. *hugggggs*

      1. Golden Lioness*

        Dawn, this was a great response. Very thoughtful and I agree!

        Matcha, You are not a failure, the fact that you do it all on your own means you’re strong. You matter! and we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

        ((((hugs))))

      3. matcha123*

        Wow! Thanks so much!
        I’ve never really stopped to think about anxiety as anything I could have (aside from a description of a feeling).
        Thank you. I’ll put those websites in to check out.
        With friends, I really feel like…they would try to help me, but there’s a larger part of me that says, “Do you really want to test that? Do you really want to put them in that position? What if you make things worse?” and I kind of back off and into my own thoughts. You’re right about breaking things into smaller pieces. I’ve done that, start making progress, and then outside things happen to throw me off for months. By the time I get back on it, I’m at the bottom again.
        Since I live overseas, the services that would be available to me are limited due to my visa status.
        Anyways, thanks :) I’ve got your sites open in tabs now!

    2. Dawn*

      I left a really long reply to this that I think is stuck in moderation, but in the meantime, HUGGGS and also go check out Captian Awkward and Level Up Your Life for specific sites that might help you.

    3. vanBOOM*

      I sympathize, because I also never had a financial (or even emotional) support system of any kind, and for a time was constantly fearful of ending up homeless (one wrong move, and boom–I could have not had enough money, and no one would be there to help me if I screwed up).

      I would start by doing *anything* you could to start building up some savings. That may mean engaging in extreme budgeting, taking a second job (or taking on temporary gigs), identifying ways to bring in passive income (no matter the size), getting a roommate (or two, or three), committing to paying off your debt for good, etc. The combination of all the actions you choose to take may solicit judgment from your (secretly broke) friends and it will not be fun to do. However, you need to constantly imagine what it will feel like to feel more financially secure, and that will carry you through. In terms of gathering ideas for all of this, I would devour as many financial books or blogs as you could. Some books that come to mind include The Total Money Makeover, I Will Teach You To Be Rich, and Get a Financial Life. (There are websites for each of those, too.) Some blogs that come to mind include Six Figures Under, The Penny Hoarder, and Mr. Money Mustache. The hardest part about this process is getting started, but it does get better.

      In terms of seeking jobs for better pay and more fulfillment: Yes, there’s always going to be someone more qualified who could suck up those roles. But you know what? There are also lots of people in these roles that are merely “good enough” at what they do–and they’re likely not losing sleep over that fact, because they probably work with other people who are *also* merely “good enough” at their jobs. (I’m not trying to reinforce this narrative that performance doesn’t matter when it comes to job outcomes; just pointing out that this is more common than we think.) I would focus on finding a job where (1) you think you would be reasonably good at it–especially after getting up to speed, (2) it offers even the slightest opportunity to do work that could expand your skill set. I’d also re-frame your mindset to emphasize the extent to which you are a *solid* employee rather than a rock star.

      I don’t know if *any* of this is helpful, but again….I’ve been there, I empathize, and these things helped me. I’m much happier (and financially secure) now.

      1. matcha123*

        Thanks for those sites, I will check them out, too. I’ve heard of some of them.
        I have some passive income that comes in. I find it’s a lot easier to save when I already have some savings, but there have been a number of unexpected happenings over the past few years that knock me back down to zero.
        Thank you again!

    4. NaoNao*

      Well, first, employers very rarely ask or care about family support unless you’re an 18 year old Vogue intern or similar. They are paying you for your expertise and work experience, not based on your situation (which is why appeals based on personal finances aren’t supposed to be used during compensation and raise conversations). Employers pay someone a good salary for a couple good reasons:
      -To get and retain top performers or support staff
      -To enable a worldwide economy (as a super macro way of looking at it)
      -To adhere to marketplace supply and demand (the marketplace needs hundreds of thousands of software developers, for example. There’s *maybe* 100 or so out there who could work for 20K “for fun” and live off a trust fund)
      -To follow the law and avoid negative legal consequences

      Secondly, I think that perhaps (and I say this nicely) you may be overestimating how many people have the support of a well off family. I personally know maybe 3-4 people who could ask their parents or siblings for help or have a trust fund and I am upper middle class, went to private school, have a legitimately wealthy father, and went to four year college, etc. I know it seems like “everyone” around you has resources you don’t but as one example, my family in particular has a way of talking about money that makes it *seem* to outsiders that it’s easy-breezy. It is not. All of us struggle in one way or another, we just tend to be outwardly upbeat and unconcerned. So that could be part of it: the whole “Instagram Perfect” perception.

      One thing that helped me *tremendously* was looking at my first 10 or so years in the working world (including part time college jobs and retail jobs) as an “apprenticeship”. I was studying customer service soft skills deeply, and I wrote a resume that “told” that story. All my jobs, no matter what, taught me a different aspect of customer service soft skills.
      Is there a way you can “tell” a similar story with your resume, and use that to catapult into the type or job or field you want?

      Another thing you could do is build your own network. Meetup and similar sites often have very niche/targeted networking groups (I’m in a “Lesbians who Tech” group as an “ally”, for example!) So you might be able to gather support and resources from non-family, non-friends groups.

      A forum that is great (but a little picky on language, so beware) is “Friends of Captain Awkward”. The members there discuss *in depth* issues of class, income, inequality, imposter syndrome, job woes, and almost every very niche, detailed issue or problem you could imagine. They also exist just to support one another–there’s a “no advice, just support” thread.

      GOOD LUCK!! You can do it!!

      1. matcha123*

        Thank you. Are those groups better if you’re in a certain area?
        I’ve looked at meetup for my area, but there’s not much. I’m in a group for alumni from my university, but all of their meetings are hours away from me on weekday nights. I’ll try to look at this past decade as an apprenticeship. That is a pretty apt example!

    5. Sir Alanna Trebond*

      I was recently stuck in a bit of a rut too. I was dealing with all this anxiety, no motivation, &etc. All of Dawn’s advice is really good and has helped me turn my life around in the past month. Like, I literally think I could have written something very similar to your comment one month ago if I’d had the motivation to write it all down. Kati Morton has some good content on YouTube and free mental health workbooks available. NerdFitness really helped me. I’ve been working out a lot more and I think that’s helped me dealing with the anxiety.

      Something else that helped with the anxiety was recognizing a pattern. There would be some task that I needed to do, Task A. For whatever reason, thinking about Task A would make me extremely anxious. To avoid that anxiety/deal with it, I would try to avoid thinking about Task A by binge-watching shows on Netflix, reading AAM, messing about on the Internet, and generally doing anything and everything but Task A. Then, especially if Task A was time sensitive, I would get dinged for putting it off so long. Then I would feel guilty and the anxiety about Task A would get even worse, so that Task A just never got done and I had no good excuse for WHY and I was stuck in the Anxiety Loop of Doom. Now, when I first feel that anxiety about a task at the very beginning, I just explicitly acknowledge it. I think to myself, “OK, I am feeling some anxiety about completing this task. I recognize that anxiety. However, it is not a rational emotional response to doing this task. I am going to get started on the task right now even though I also feel anxious about it.” It was really tough to do this, especially at first when I had a huge backlog of stuff I’d been avoiding.

      Basically, before my hallelujah moment I was waiting for a time when I would feel motivated and my anxiety would go away. I realized this past month that if I kept waiting, I might just never get anything done. So, I started teaching myself discipline (yay NerdFitness) and I learned to work with the brain I have, not the brain I wish I had. YMMV, but this approach helped me a lot. Well, that and kickboxing.

      1. matcha123*

        Yes. That loop!
        On the one hand, I have an idea of what I should be doing. On the other hand, I sometimes can’t make myself do it. Or I throw myself into it, use up all of my energy, and spend a lot of time trying to recharge. It seems like there are a lot of recommendations for nerd fitness! I love exercise and reading about new techniques.
        Mmm…I have spent years waiting for the perfect combination of things to happen that would allow me to [insert emotion here]. I guess I have to keep reminding myself that there’s never any perfect time.

    6. Lo Flo*

      Great advice, please follow it. I know people in their 50’s and 60’s that still bouncing around, and they came from well off families.

  45. anonykins*

    Still don’t know whether my job is going hourly or getting a salary bump to comply with new exempt laws! They only have two more paychecks to get it figured out. Based on my asking around, though, I think it’s going hourly ;_;

    1. vanBOOM*

      Interesting. I’m not going to be personally affected by the law, but at my org people have been informed by now of whether they’re going to be doing time sheets and will be informed of any salary changes by December. Seems to be cutting it close, but….I suppose lots of orgs are scrambling.

      1. Persephone Mulberry*

        I don’t have a dog in this fight, either – I’m under the threshold but already correctly categorized as salaried non-exempt – and while I’m really glad on behalf of the people who will see a positive change, I’m also really surprised that they pushed it into effect on as short of notice as they did. I mean, it seems like most stuff of this magnitude gets rolled out over years, not months.

        1. Natalie*

          The rule change process began in 2014 and the final rule was issued more than six months ago. Bluntly, businesses have had plenty of time to prepare for this.

    2. seriouslywtf*

      I work in gov’t and it seems like they haven’t even started talking about in HR/city management. No one has any idea what they will do. Most of us are way too underpaid (under 40k) to be considered for a bump, so we’re thinking they’ll probably just pay the overtime.

  46. Rebecca*

    Today is my last day at my current job. I have already handed over my work to my coworkers, and am spending my time surfing the internet and cleansing my email files of anything personal. I can’t wait to start my new position on Monday! I’m excited to start with a new team, new computer system, new challenges, and as a bonus, an increased paycheck and shorter commute. I will move back a bit on paid time off for a while, but gaining an extra hour of my life on every work day by not having to drive as far will more than make up for it.

    I am very thankful for this blog. I read, absorbed, and used so many of the tips here, and I really feel all the info I gleaned allowed me to land my new position. I just want to say “Thank you Alison!”.

    Many of my soon to be former coworkers and customers have reached out, and everyone has been so kind. I was able to make my exit on a high note, in good standing, and I feel really good about that.

    Onward and upward! Now, my biggest stress is what to wear on Monday, and who will inherit my black Swingline stapler that actually staples more than 2 sheets of paper without complaint :)

    2. KarenD*

      “Whoops! How did this stapler get into this box of take-home stuff?

      Oh well. I’ll be sure to drop it off by old workplace. Someday.”

      (Congrats and good luck!)

      1. Rebecca*

        :) I love that movie!! It might be the same model, but it’s black, and it works like a charm. I’m going to gift it to a coworker.

        2. Natalie*

          Probably is the same model – they were black in real life. The IRL red version was made after the movie.

          1. Golden Lioness*

            Yes, and they only manufactured the red ones for a limited time. I had one proudly displayed on my desk, right next to the TPS Cover Sheet (which I downloaded from an Office Space fan page and made for a great conversation piece!)

  47. KatieKate*

    Not exactly work related, but my office is closing early so everyone can go to the Cubs parade today! I’m not going because crowds freak me out, but good on my company for being so flexible!

    1. J*

      Did you watch the game? It was an amazing game :)

      I miss being in Chicago and working downtown right now. Even as a Sox fan, if you can’t celebrate the Cubs finally winning the World Series, I don’t wanna know ya!

      1. KatieKate*

        I did!! It was seriously amazing. I’m not normally a big baseball person, but it’s been a welcome relief from….the rest of the world. :D

    3. Blue Anne*

      We were crestfallen over here in Cleveland, gotta say. But my friend in Chicago pointed out that you guys haven’t had a win since the Ottoman Empire, so I don’t begrudge it. :P

      It was a truly amazing game. Baseball as it’s meant to be played.

      1. KatieKate*

        You played an amazing season! The past 7 games were incredible and close. You should still be proud! :D

      2. JMegan*

        I’m a Jays fan, so I can’t be *too* sad for Cleveland, unfortunately. :) But I 100% agree that the last few games were absolutely baseball as it’s meant to be played!

    4. JMegan*

      That is awesome! I think I might be *ahem* sick this afternoon if I lived in Chicago. :)

      Loved the game as well. I had to bail at midnight Eastern time – heading into the 10th, and there’s a rain delay, so who knows how much longer it could have gone. I wanted so much to stay up for it, but couldn’t keep my eyes open! So I missed the last inning, unfortunately.

      Also, this is absolutely work related. All the players and coaches and everyone in the Cubs organization – this is their job, right? Right! ;)

    5. Go Cubs!!*

      One of the things that I don’t miss about working downtown- the crowds when this stuff happens. I remember my coworkers taking off when the Blackhawks won, just to avoid it all. (I think 1 coworker actually went to the parade, but everyone else just wanted to avoid the entire scene.)

      1. Tris Prior*

        I have never in my life been happier that I work on the north side, considerably north of Wrigley. Good for the Cubs, but Boyfriend had an absolutely awful time getting to his office in the Loop this morning and I don’t do well with crowds. So very happy to watch the mayhem online from the comfort of my cubicle.

        Anyone know whether things have cleared out at all? Wondering when, if ever, to expect him home. :)

    6. Rachel*

      That’s great!

      Traffic was lighter than usual on my way to work. I guess everyone was heading downtown this morning. (I work in the suburbs.) My boyfriend said his train into the city was completely full this morning and he could not find a seat – at 6 am!

      I am DVRing the parade and rally. : )

    7. MsMaryMary*

      Did you get to come into work late yesterday? I’m a Clevelander and yesterday was rough. Everyone in my office was exhausted, and we didn’t have the winning afterglow to get us through.

      2. KatieKate*

        I cam in on time, but a lot of folks rolled in later. And everyone has been decked out in cubs gear for the past few days, which is a nice break from the biz causal that you normally see!

      3. ScarletInTheLibrary*

        Not in Cleveland, but an Indians fan. I called in because my Cubs fan coworker would be unbearable. Well more than he normally is. I wanted to keep my job.

    8. Bob Barker*

      Oh, interesting. When the Red Sox ended their stupidly-long drought (10/27/04), they delayed the parade, ahem “rolling rally” because that is more dignified, till 10/30, a Saturday. But they won late in the week, which makes the pain of waiting easier. Also, I guess they scheduled a few extra days’ transit time for all the people who had to come to Boston from far away — word was there were something like 9 million people in the city that day, compared to the resident population of 600,000, and the workday population of like 2 million. Certainly, I’ve never seen the Back Bay that crowded before or since.

      (I *did* work along the parade route, on the 2nd floor, so all of my colleagues and I opened up the offices on Saturday morning and hung out the windows screaming. It was grand! I think you can see our forearms on the official video of the parade, ahem, “rolling rally.”)

    9. Lillian Styx*

      I got to set up the WGN live stream on the projector in the conference room! :D It was great! Not gonna be fun getting home tonight though probably…

  48. Theresa*

    I’ve decided to apply to grad school and just sent an email to my former boss (we still work at the same organization, he just got a promotion and doesn’t supervise me anymore) asking him to be a reference and I think I am going to throw up!!! The coworkers who know my plans are telling me that he’d be great to ask and that he’d definitely give me a reference. I feel like I’ve always had a hard time “reading” him, so I sort of assume he hates me. I’m terrified that he’ll say no AND THEN reveal my plans to my current boss/managers.

    1. AnotherAnony*

      You never know unless you try. I’m pretty sure my old boss hated my guts- we just never clicked- but when I applied for a new job, they called him for a reference and surprisingly he gave a positive one. Still believe he hates me though.

  49. Lily Rowan*

    Alison’s call for updates made me wonder about the Unfriendly Phlebotomist — I haven’t been diligent in following the open threads, so I don’t know if she’s been around, but I wonder how everything shook out for her!

    1. YourUnFriendlyPhlebotomist*

      I lurk. so much has happened and its all nasty and negative BUT im pregnant! Which is fantastic but I do sort of expect to be fired before im due in April. However because I’m part time I don’t get paid leave so who knows maybe they’ll keep me on.
      I recently put in for a full time position in another office and was told “secretly” my the hiring manager that she wanted to hire me but HR wont allow it because I have a “final written warning” this puzzled me because I was never told that would black list me from transferring. I suppose I should have fought the write up to begin with because its 100% mental health discrimination but I didn’t and speaking up now would surly cause me to loose my job.

  50. vanBOOM*

    What are some ways in which you have confronted implicit sexism in the workplace in a professional, but effective, way?

    For example, it’s one thing to encounter a co-worker making repeated, explicitly disparaging gender comments. However, it’s another thing to agree to provide training for two male colleagues on a highly technical topic, only to find that one of them keeps deferring to the other as the “expert” during the training (despite the fact that guy #2 repeatedly makes it clear that he’s there for training, too, and is becoming increasingly embarrassed by having to constantly remind guy #1 of the fact that he doesn’t have the answers, I do…because I am much more educated and experienced; this is an objective fact).

    The latter example happened to me recently–and despite the fact that guy #2 and I had a funny “wtf, guy #1?” discussion about this afterwards (seriously: this happened so many times and went on for the *entirety* of the training!), I know that guy #1 will ask for assistance again in the future. When he does, I want to say something about this before I agree to assist him. However, when it comes to things like this, I struggle with crafting mental scripts that strike the right balance between professional and effective. Any suggestions?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I am not sure if I am getting this.
      You’re female and you’re the trainer?

      If you are running the class, just say that all questions must be directed toward you because you are the one who is certified/qualified/or other appropriate term. Tell them that they each have to do their own course work.

      I am thinking that it feels like a problem because it’s just the two of them. But if you had 5 people all talking among themselves you would say the same thing. You have to control the lessons and this is one of the ways you use to control the lessons.

      I assume you mean Guy #1 will ask you a question later on in a non-classroom context? I think that it’s too late by then. Plus, you want him to ask you and he would be asking you at that point. If you have another training and he does it, then speak right up. “Guy #1 I am the official trainer here and everyone’s questions need to be directed to me.”

      I am not sure that this is his gender bias at work here, he may just not want you to know how much he does not understand. If he has to get credit through you and you know he fails to grasp the concepts, you can’t give him that credit.

      OTH, I may have just totally misread your question. If so, ignore me.

    2. LCL*

      well, forget the concept of a script. Somehow this idea from therapy has morphed into the idea of a collection of magic words that will fix everything. There ain’t no scripts in real life.
      When the sexism starts, interrupt it as soon as it happens. With whatever works” I was talking, I was instructed to teach this, coworker doesn’t know this, why are you asking him when I am teaching the session, etc.”. And keep doing it as long as he keeps doing it. You might not change his mind, but you will shut him up.

    3. Ellen*

      I work in a 90% male environment. I bluntly say ” your being sexist” or “that’s sexist “. I say it bluntly, in a flat tone and say it while just going about my work. This has been very effective for me.
      Good luck.

  51. fposte*

    So has anybody else noticed that FiveThirtyEight is doing an advice column and started with workplace advice? This first one was about annoying gum-chewers in the office, and unsurprisingly, they answered by surveying responses.

    2. Leatherwings*

      I just checked this out, thanks! So interesting, because I think that the most popular answer (go to HR) is a pretty bad option.

    4. BRR*

      Ooh interesting. It’s not very encouraging to see go to HR won for how to handle a gum smacker. Talk to the offender directly wasn’t even an option.

  52. Phone Interview*

    I had a phone interview scheduled with a recruiter at 9am. She emailed me and told me that she wanted to change it to 10 am. It’s now an hour later and she still hasn’t called. I had another woman call me to schedule an interview and I left a message with her and she didn’t call me back. This sucks.

    1. Audiophile*

      I had an interviewer repeatedly miss my schedule interview times. She kept asking me to call her back, I’d call back and she’d say she was busy or she wouldn’t answer. I gave it about 3 tries over a few different days and then I gave up.

      1. Phone Interview*

        I’ve had that too, it stinks. The first time she rescheduled 15 minutes before the interview. The second time she had her son’s doctor’s appointment. The third time she wasn’t paying attention, but supposedly tried calling me 15 minutes later.

  53. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

    Alison!

    I just wanted to say:

    1) You AMAZE me with how productive you are at getting things done here.
    – I didn’t consciously notice how much you really do until you got sick, and then I was impressed at how much you got done while having sickness ‘o doom (TM).

    2) Have you done any posts on productivity, optimization, and working on starting your own business? I’d be very interested in how you balanced stuff at your non-profit job while establishing your website, etc.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Thank you! I am actually STILL a little bit sick, although much better than I was for the first 10 days or so. My voice is back, although not reliably so — it comes and goes. But the cough will not go away.

      But yes, I sometimes realize no sane person runs a one-person blog with this many daily posts. Now that I’ve started doing it that way, though, I have trouble stopping.

      I’ve done a few posts about that stuff, although none of them are very personalized to me. One thing worth noting, though, is that I was only doing a few posts a week while I was still working at a traditional job — very different productivity level then!

      1. TJ*

        What amazes me the most is how closely you monitor and engage with the comments section. The site and community are probably much better for it, but that’s a huge undertaking.

      2. Golden Lioness*

        Get well soon, Alison!
        You are fantastic and we all appreciate all you do and the great advice you give!

  54. anonymous therapist*

    I am a specialized and relatively uncommon type of therapist, currently working in a large healthcare system. This week my new boss called me in for a meeting, and it became very clear that her expectations are much different from my last boss, who was generally very supportive of me and encouraged me to use my skills/training here, as it brought something different to the unit. Now I’m being told not to use the type of therapy I am trained in, have been told to do extra groups each day (when it was already a challenge to get things done as the only person in my role here), and have had additional unrelated requests piled on me since the meeting. As much as I love my co-workers and commute, I think it’s time to move on, rather than continue to feel miserable and unappreciated (which is what it’s been like for a while). But on a positive note, the first email I sent to the director of a facility that I was told is looking for someone in my specialty got a response in less than 8 minutes that started with “omg yes!” so I think that is a good sign.

    1. Prismatic Professional*

      What is happening at your current workplace seriously sucks. The response however from the potentially*new*place is awesome! It certainly points out that you have a good reputation in your field. :-)

      1. anonymous therapist*

        Aww, thank you. I’m so wrapped up in the negative aspects that I hadn’t thought about it with that perspective. That brightened my day! :)

  55. Fortitude Jones*

    Just had an interesting check-in meeting with my supervisor today. Apparently, effective November 21, everyone in my company at a job grade of 108 or below is being moved to non-exempt status regardless of their salary. Luckily, I’m two grades higher so my exempt status won’t change; however, salaries were also adjusted, so I fell down in quintile range. I asked if I was going to get a larger merit increase come salary review time, and she said she’s going to try to fight for me to get a larger piece of the budget since I’m doing a consistently great job and taking on new stretch assignments (more on that in a sec) and doing professional development things outside of work. However, she said there’s no guarantee of anything because it has to be approved by our division president. I overheard a conversation she had the other day with our mutual manager where our manager was bemoaning the “low” merit increases in the division. I asked her about this, and she said that yes, it’s sometimes frustrating because they want to give everyone a raise every year, but they can’t always do that because of the budget. However, she reminded me that our division president gives out bonuses outside of the bonus period (again, if funds are available), so she’ll ask about that too.

    Now, one of my coworkers who’s been in my job grade for years claims she gets great merit increases every year, so I’m not sure what my manager considers to be “low.” It’ll be interesting to see what they come back with come March, especially since apparently our merit increase percentages aren’t based on our own individual salaries, but on the salaries of everyone in the unit. And it’ll be interesting if we still get the division president’s special bonus that they’ve been getting every year for the past decade or so. I know our HR department has tried to shut that down several times in the past, and with all the new people we just hired this year, our president may not want to do that anymore (even though his yearly bonus is pretty sweet).

    Then my supervisor surprised me by telling me that I’ll be handling $100k plus files/claims going forward, at least once a month. I know she and I are currently working on one now (she’s really just providing feedback and direction to make sure I don’t miss anything, but I’m doing the legwork), but I didn’t realize that she plans to have me keep doing these things. I thought she was only giving me this one-off to teach me how to do it in the event that I get promoted up to that level sometime in the future – but she’s working with the director of the large losses to find me files to work on my own. I’m happy about that because I asked for stretch assignments in our last check-in, and I wasn’t sure if she would actually make it happen. Now I’m wondering what else I can ask for and get. Oh, and my division Sr. VP is now mentoring me in career planning for the next three months, so this should be interesting all around.

  56. BeckaJo*

    I did a phone screen for a job I really, really want yesterday. I’m debating sending a thank-you email – it seems a little needy/pushy for what ended up being just a 15 minute conversation, but shouldn’t I do it just as a matter of protocol? And if I do send the note, should I send one to both the people who were on the call together or separately?

    I’m also feeling rather bad because my current boss keeps finding interesting things for me to do – I was sent to a conference last week and I’ve been asked to lead professionalism workshops in the next few months – but the problem with this job is more pay then anything, and there are no raises in the future. I don’t know what to do now.

    1. Murphy*

      I’d send a brief thank you anyway. And I think it’s fine to send one message to both people if you have their contact info.

  57. Alton*

    I have a small ethics question.

    I have an employee bus pass. It’s not free for me, but it’s a considerable discount and a flat amount is deducted from my paycheck each month.

    My feeling is that it could be inappropriate to use the pass for anything other than commuting or work-related errands. I still use the pass if, say, I meet up with friends after work and take a later bus home, because I’d need to catch a bus home either way. But I don’t use it if I go somewhere on my day off.

    Am I being too rigid? I haven’t been able to find any terms of use associated with using the pass, and the only condition is that you be a full-time employee. I just don’t want to abuse it.

    1. YourUnFriendlyPhlebotomist*

      does your company get charged each time you use it? theres probably something in the employee handbook about it.

      1. Alton*

        That’s what I was concerned about, but I haven’t been able to find any info. I could check with the office that gives out the passes. I work for a large university, so this information isn’t very centralized.

        I don’t take the bus super frequently for personal stuff (I don’t have a car, but the bus is limited here, so I walk a lot or get rides) , so it’s just a little inconvenient to keep cash or regular bus passes on hand since I don’t need them often. Realistically, I doubt using the pass an additional one or two additional times a month would be a problem, but I always worry about doing the right thing.

        1. zora*

          I would definitely ask the office that gives out the passes. Go in person and ask “I’m just curious, are these passes for unlimited rides by month, or do they charge per ride?”

          I suspect it’s a monthly charge for unlimited rides, so I agreee with all of the other comments, but you could definitely ask so you can be sure.

        2. Headachey*

          I used to manage employee transportation benefit programs so hope I can give you some reassurance. The transit agency doesn’t track individual trips on monthly transit passes & certainly doesn’t report pass use or trip data to the employer. You should have no worries about using the pass any way you like!

          I occasionally ran into cases where people tried to get both a transit pass & parking benefit, or sold their discounted pass at face value to make money – seriously, you’re in the clear.

          1. zora*

            Yeah, I read the question again, and changed my mind. It’s not even a pass the employer is buying FOR you, you just get a discount, but it is purchased with YOUR money!! You can definitely use it for any rides any time, it is your money, and your bus pass!! No need to even ask, just use it freely!

    2. Blue Anne*

      Is it just a flat rate for unlimited rides? I would absolutely make full use of it for whatever I wanted. Any sane employer would be fine with that. It’s a perk!

    3. Adam V*

      I think it should be fine – I feel like it’s a workplace perk similar to a discounted gym membership. Use it however you see fit!

    5. Lady Blerd*

      You are being too rigid in your thinking. It doesn’t cost anymore to your bosses that you use for anything other then work. It would not be comparable to, say, having taxi vouchers that you’d use Willy-Nilly. If you want to be sure, ask your bosses/HR or whoever is in charge of giving them out. Otherwise, I say it’s fine to use it for non work related travel.

    6. Murphy*

      I think it’s fine to use it for whatever. You’re paying for it, and the discounted price is just a perk of where you work.

    7. LisaLee*

      I do think you’re being too rigid. Usually these sorts of programs are considered a perk, and cities often give companies discounts on passes like this to encourage people to come into the city more. Feel free to use it as often as you want. (I assume your company pays a flat rate for unlimited use, and isn’t paying by the trip).

    8. orchidsandtea*

      I think you’re being a bit too rigid. If your employer has to pay for every ride that’s one thing, and you should just ask your boss what the guidelines are. But if it’s a flat-rate monthly pass then it doesn’t matter how often you use it, so it’s given as an employee benefit that you can graciously accept even on your days off.

    11. Princess Carolyn*

      At one of my jobs, I had a parking pass to a downtown garage that would have been rather expensive if I’d paid for it myself (or if I opted to pay by the hour like most people in that garage). They made it quite clear that I could use it for whatever I wanted, including leaving my car overnight after a big evening at the bars.

      If the cost to your company remains the same either way, I think it’s fine to use the heck out of that pass. If they get charged a per-ride fee, then it’s probably not ethical. It seems most likely that your company/university is paying per month/semester/year, not per ride. But your best bet is just to ask.

      1. zora*

        I reread the question and realized the employer isn’t even buying the pass! So there is no ‘cost’ to the company, it is only a discount, and they deduct from the employee’s paycheck for the cost of the pass! She should use it without worry.

  58. FN2187*

    I have a question on behalf of my mom.

    After being at home for 20+ years, she got a job at the school district in one of the high school kitchens. She’s an awesome worker, got promoted fairly quickly, does her job exceedingly well. She honestly gives a bit *too* much, and I tried to talk to her about boundaries beforehand, but she genuinely enjoyed the job and didn’t mind. Well, after some pressure from external sources, she applied for a manager’s position at an elementary school and got the job. She has no management experience, but she is an incredible worker and is more than up for the task.

    Unfortunately, her part-time worker is belligerent, insubordinate and lazy. My mom, under the guidance of her supervisor and grand supervisor, gave the lazy worker a talking to and respectfully asked that lazy worker finish her tasks as requested, etc. It didn’t go well. Lazy worker threw a fit, walked off the job, and stormed straight to HR. My mom got a light, off-record verbal reprimand for doing what her bosses told her to do. The good outcome is that lazy worker was removed from that school. Mom is understandably upset, but it’s been almost two weeks and she still comes home crying every day, and apparently is not sleeping because of this. Last night, we were eating dinner and she randomly burst into tears. Yes, it sucks that her bosses threw her under the bus, but after some prodding I found out this is the first time she’s ever been reprimanded in a professional sense in her 50+ years. She just cannot handle it disappointment in a professional setting. I’m recommending she go talk to someone, as she keeps saying she feels like a failure, like she’s worthless or has no value since she works in foodservice. She’s job hunting for something not in management, but her confidence has been totally destroyed.

    This seems like an extreme reaction, personally. My mom is extremely intelligent, dedicated and a fantastic worker. She is capable of doing so much more. I am trying to gently tell her that she will, potentially, face much worse situations in whatever job she moves to next. I’m also trying to instill the importance of leaving work at work and creating boundaries.

    Sorry for the novel. I live with her still, even though I have a full-time job myself. It’s distressing to see her upset. Do any of you have any advice for overcoming disappointments in the workplace?

    1. fposte*

      Wow. You are really looking at this insightfully as well as sympathetically. That’s hard to do with a parent, and I’m very impressed.

      I would think parenting might be a good comparison here, because I can’t imagine she never had anybody tell her she was doing it wrong (and never did anything wrong, for that matter). How did she decide she was okay to go on nonetheless?

      1. FN2187*

        Oh that’s definitely a good comparison! I’ll see if I can casually bring it up in conversation tonight.

    2. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

      The only thing I’ve found to help me is time and perspective. I know I am still dealing with this, myself.

      This is a serious question–does she read AAM? I find it helps me with strategies (forewarned is forearmed!) and the archives/open threads are great for help with my perspective on things.

      1. FN2187*

        I am trying so, so hard to get her to read AAM — it’s helped me tremendously as a new professional, and I know it would do wonders for her after reentering the work force for the first time since the 1980s.

    3. BRR*

      I wouldn’t think of it as doing what her bosses told her to do. She did what she should do as a manager. Stress that point. Bad managers don’t address poor performance. Good managers do.

      I don’t know why she was reprimanded and if she doesn’t know she could also go back to HR and say she’s been thinking about what happened and wants to know why. If this person was union, then it might be different.

      In addition to reading AAM, Alison co-authored a management book that might be helpful to build her management skills.

  59. Blue Anne*

    Alison, you know I love your site, but I’m going to have to start using an adblocker. I don’t know what it is about the ads here, but they seriously slow down the rest of my browser (Netflix goes blurry if I just have you open in another tab!) the tab regularly crashes, and it sometimes crashes my entire Chrome.

    I hope that having purchased your other products makes up for it. :)

  60. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Can I just say I’m really thankful for my workplaces so far and the field I work in? I’m a young lawyer, and being out has NEVER been an issue, despite my working with people of different ages and backgrounds.

    And when there was a bigot, my coworkers took the burden of complaining about him, and it was addressed pretty quickly.

  61. Lady Blerd*

    Dear young adult employee:

    I would have thought that you would know not to write on social media that you called in sick at work because you didn’t feel like coming to work because you hate it. I would have assumed that you would know it’s even less of a good idea considering that you FB friends with many of the managers. Heck someone helpfully pointed out that it was it wasn’t a good idea but you figured Eff-it, you have nothing to hide. It was especially helpful of you to provide photographic evidence of your mental health day, I have to say, you do have talent. In any case, I hope your one on one with your bosses was a wake up call.

    That said you did inspire me to do a another round of clean up to to keep unwanted eyes out of my stuff.

    Seriously kid, do better.

    Lady Blerd

    2. Leatherwings*

      Oy, that’s bad. I do wonder what goes through peoples’ heads? I once had an employee of mine friend-request all three of his bosses (including me. I didn’t accept, but my assistant managers did) and then proceed to spend almost the entire day every day for a week posting Buzzfeed articles to his timeline.

      We had a talk with him real quick about that one, and he immediately unfriended all of us (duh). It cost him a promotion shortly thereafter and he was *very* surprised he didn’t get it.

      1. Lady Blerd*

        There’s another position in our organization that is more in line with his interests that will open up and it would probably be a better fit for him. But at the same time, that kind of IDAF attittude likele wouldn’t fly there either. At the end of the day, every job have boring aspects and he needs to learn to deal with that professionally.

  62. Anon for this*

    I have a salary-related question and would be grateful for y’alls advice!

    So, I switched to a new, higher-level role at my company in May, but for various reasons I’ve stayed at the same hourly wage… BUT if all goes well I will be moving to NYC and switching to salaried in less than a month! I’ve been kind of in limbo because my salary will somewhat depend on my new cost of living and without that nailed down I didn’t feel I could negotiate properly. But now it looks like I’m definitely moving in December and I know the price range my roommates want to stay within, so I’ll have a better sense of how much I need to earn to make this move worthwhile. My company is very enthused about and invested in my move, both personally and financially (if all goes well, it will pay off handsomely for them down the road).

    The only weird thing is that people who do my job generally aren’t salaried. I’m in sales, so I should technically be making only commission + expenses, like our other sales reps do—but my company is going to pay me a salary for the first few years while I get on my feet. The assumption is that, since I’m new to sales, I won’t be making enough in commissions to support myself for a while (although I’ve been doing well enough my first few months that this probably isn’t true, to be honest). My situation is unique enough that I have no idea how to figure out what I “should” be making. There’s also the fact that my salary will be a huge raise, or what feels like a huge one; I make $18/hour now, which works out to about $37K a year, and I think they’re going to offer me around $50K, maybe even more. I would be thrilled with that number. So… should I just accept their offer if I’m happy with it? Or should I try to negotiate anyway? Maybe this is a silly question, but I’ve literally never done this before and would appreciate any advice.

    1. BeezLouise*

      I would still negotiate. Is it going to be salary + commission? Is $50K above what you think you would be making with your current salary plus expected commissions?

      1. Anon for this*

        I believe it’s going to be just salary, no commission at first. But you’ve given me an interesting idea… I’ve been in sales for 5 months now, and I’ve been doing pretty well; I’m quite sure if I were making my industry’s standard commission it would work out to at least 50K/year, possibly more. (I’ve been doing better than anybody—including myself!—expected.) So I can use those numbers in making my argument…

        (For clarity: I’m not making commission at all right now. I’m just hourly.)

        I’m not opposed to the idea of negotiating per se, but I wasn’t sure how to justify asking for more than they offer; maybe my strong sales numbers up to this point will help.

    2. anonnn*

      Do not under any circumstances try to survive in New York city on $37k a year. Even $50k is hard with roommates.

      1. Anon for this*

        Ha, no worries; it definitely won’t be $37K. The company’s committed to paying me what I need in order to be able to live there… so I should probably do some research into what that # realistically is before meeting with them, shouldn’t I!

      2. J*

        Yes. This. So much this.

        In moving from Chicago to NYC, my salary went up by almost 70%. The number looked great from Chicago. It looks less amazing in NYC.

    3. Belle di Vedremo*

      First thing to do is look at some of those salary and cost of living comparison websites and plug in where you are now and NYC. Sticker shock is pretty common for those moving to one of the big cities. $50K in NYC isn’t much. Also, if memory serves, a lot of NYC apts will ask for 3x the rent up front: initial deposit, last month deposit, plus first month’s rent.

  63. orchidsandtea*

    My soon-to-be-former boss suggested I hang out a freelance shingle and find B2B prospects. I’m fantastic at research — I can find prospects, research a company’s & industry’s problems, even recover stolen bicycles (what a story). But how would I go about doing this? What would I call myself, and where would I find clients? Is this even viable as an immediate thing?

    I need immediate income, for the next 5 months til the baby comes. And due to a “spousal carve-out” / “working spouse rule” at my husband’s company, if I take a temp job I’ll lose my great insurance and have to use the temp agency’s horrible insurance, which does not work while pregnant.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Your husband’s company won’t let you on his insurance if you have a job that offers you insurance? That is some crazy BS right there.

      1. orchidsandtea*

        Correct. I am currently on his insurance because my small employer doesn’t offer insurance. But I’ll be laid off soon, and I was just offered a great temp job, which I can’t take because of that appalling rule. I am appealing to his corporate HR but have low expectations.

        I’d be quitting a couple weeks before my due date anyway, which would let me transfer back to his insurance, but babies come whenever they feel like it and could easily come early. Or something could go wrong! Even with a normal healthy birth, not being on his insurance could easily cost us $20,000 or more.

        So now I need a new plan, because my maternity leave will already be unpaid, and now it looks like my unpaid leave is starting three months early. And I can’t temp.

      2. Judy*

        That’s really not very unusual. Most places I’ve worked at over the last 25 years has either had that policy or if a spouse was working pay a surcharge to insure them.

        I’m lucky that my company only offers “single” and “family” insurance, so even though my husband has to take out his own insurance, he’s covered under my (better) insurance at no additional cost as a secondary insurance. So he had to be added to get the kids on mine, and his insurance pays his, but then it’s submitted to mine and they pay more.

        orchidsandtea, check if your husband’s insurance does “coordination of care” so you can be on your insurance and secondary on his.

        1. MegaMoose, Esq*

          Oh wow, I’ve never heard of this before. Every job I or my spouse has had has offered “single” or “family” rates. It’s often more expensive to have two people on the family rate than for us each to have single insurance, but still.

        2. J*

          I’ve also never heard of this.

          I *have* heard that if you have coverage through a different source, the other source is expected to take on the bulk of the expenses (I believe the context is for insurance coverage for dependents), but not that a company will refuse to cover a spouse if the spouse has the means to secure insurance elsewhere.

      3. Red Reader*

        For mine, a spouse can only have PRIMARY coverage on our insurance if their employer doesn’t offer group coverage that meets the ACA requirements and pay at least 50% of the premium. But they can have secondary coverage on our insurance no matter what.

        1. Red Reader*

          I meant to elaborate — see if they have a loophole like that, because temp agencies generally don’t cover a significant portion of the premium.

          1. orchidsandtea*

            I’ll check! The temp agency’s insurance is “preventative only”, explicitly “not major medical”, but somehow it does meet the ACA minimums. That’s actually the last-ditch question we’re bringing to the corporate benefits office — since it’s not major medical, can I stay on his plan?

            I am not aware of there being a secondary coverage option at all, but it is really hard to get a straight answer.

          2. orchidsandtea*

            Update! My husband’s HR lady escalated it all the way up to corporate benefits, who defined the exact parameters of their working spouse exclusion — and it’s not at all what it seemed like. It’s defined as “if their employer offers preventive care, major medical, and pharmaceutical coverage”. The temp agency only offers preventive.

            We’re okay. I can take the job. We can keep buying groceries.

      4. Charlotte, not NC*

        This is actually pretty standard. My best friend works for Highmark and even THEY have this rule.

        The general rule is that if your spouse is empoyed full-time and has access to insurance through the job for which they are not required to pay 100% of the cost, they must use it. Putting your spouse on your insurance requires proof that they do not meet those requirements (so, proof that they are unemployed, a homemaker, employed PT, or employed FT without benefits).

      5. Fortitude Jones*

        My company and my mother’s company has changed our policy to not allow spousal coverage if the spouse can get coverage through their own employer. And if they can’t get their own insurance for reasons, they pay a ridiculously high premium for coverage.

      6. DragoCucina*

        The major hospital system in my tri-city area does the same. If the spouse’s employer offers health insurance they will not be covered.

    2. rage is my caffeine*

      No advice on whether it would be useful immediately, but for the first part of your question, try the Association of Independent Information Professionals at http://www.aiip.org/ – might be very helpful for you!

        1. rage is my caffeine*

          No problem! I stumbled into it when I was poking around looking for any possible information or research related professional organization. :)

  64. Timssphere*

    What is the point of a job fair?

    I went to one this week, and it ended up being a bunch of talking heads telling me to go to their careers sites to apply online. Yes, I know how to find your careers website, so don’t patronize me by giving me a card with step-by-step instructions. In some cases, I asked if I could talk to a hiring manager about certain jobs to which I had already applied (I had exact titles and requisition numbers written down), and was always told no, there aren’t any hiring managers here. I then asked the HR reps if they knew anything about those jobs. None of them did.

    Also, is it normal for a huge proportion of employers at job fairs to be advertising low-skill, menial jobs? Whenever I saw a specific job mentioned in an employer’s advertising materials, it was always retail, call center and warehouse work. I’m looking for an entry-level office job.

    1. Blue Anne*

      I think they’re more useful if you already know that you want to apply to at least one of the companies there. Then you can talk to their employees and get tips on the process.

    2. CMT*

      Yes, I think it is normal for job fairs to be focused mostly on things like retail jobs and call centers. And the HR reps are not there to be patronizing. I think you may need to adjust your expectations if you go to another job fair.

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      The point of a jobs fair is to learn more about the company, their normal hiring processes, what types of roles they are currently filling, and to spend a few minutes expressing your interest and giving them your resume (if they are taking them). Most companies have HR reps whose entire job is to travel to these various fairs, so the expectation that you’d get to speak to specific hiring managers is pretty unrealistic.

      Regarding the types of positions, it varies on the job fair. Fairs hosted by colleges/universities tend to be looking for interns or entry-level hires for office positions or more skilled positions. These are typically only open to students and alumni of that particular school. Public job fairs tend to attract employers who are looking to fill lower-skilled roles.

    4. ABL*

      I think they’re mostly useful for collecting the names of companies you may be interested in applying to later. Its a very basic high level introduction and you still have a lot of leg work, but you may hear of companies or openings you wouldn’t otherwise know about. Plus, at least where I went to school, I got a lot of free pens out of those job fairs.

  65. Squirrel*

    Man, I think my job is making me depressed. I am so bored every day. The pay here is low, and there is no room for advancement, no career ladder of any kind. There’s also no way to get any more or different work, unless maybe someone else left. And they try to make this place more like a cool, hip tech start up–giving away free t-shirts, water bottles, having beer at company meetings… When I get home, I’m just so drained from this place that its affecting the rest of my life. Ugh. I guess I’m looking to vent to people who may have been in a similar situation. I probably just need to kick myself in the ass and try harder with the job search.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Yeah, I feel you. I’ve been doing contract work for a year and a half trying to find permanent employment, and some days are just so hard. The only good things about my job are that no one gives a rat’s ass if you look for other jobs on the clock, there’s a really flexible schedule, and most of my coworkers are pretty cool. I had two interviews last month after several months of nothing, only to find out that neither job was interested. I found out about the second one on Tuesday and didn’t go into work for two days because I just couldn’t bring myself to do my terrible boring pointless job which is definitely not interacting well with my mental health. So yeah. I feel you.

  66. Murphy*

    There is a woman who sits 2 cubes behind me at work. I don’t work with her and I don’t really know her. She’s very chatty, so I know a lot ABOUT her because she chats about nonwork related stuff all day long. I also see her talking to people in a quiet voice sometimes, so I assume she’s gossiping. But I don’t really know and I don’t really care.

    But apparently she’s had separate conversations with two of my coworkers who I do know a bit better but am not close to about whether or not I’m pregnant. I was told by both of them that she said: “Is Murphy pregnant? Like she’s not getting fat, but her stomach is definitely getting bigger?” (I am pregnant and hadn’t told anyone when these conversations were taking place, but that’s not the point.) I’m not going to do anything about it because it’s not worth it, but it makes me kind of uncomfortable that someone I really don’t know at all was asking coworkers nosy questions about me.

    1. Susan*

      Ugh, that sucks. I think it’s pretty gross for people to be speculating on body changes of their coworkers. I have a coworker who was quick to notice the pregnancy of a woman in another department before she announced it, and he went around gossiping about it. All I could think was, “Ew, why is he looking at her body that closely, and why does he think it is any of his business?”

      1. Murphy*

        Right? It’s not super noticeable (not even 4 months), so I’m wondering “How closely was she looking at me…?”

    2. neverjaunty*

      Be more uncomfortable that your co-workers feel compelled to gossip to you about what Chattina supposedly said to them. Other than using her as an excuse because THEY want to know if you’re pregnant, why tell you this at all?

      1. Murphy*

        It came out after news of my pregnancy went public. I told my old boss (and news quickly spread after that, which was OK) and she said “Chattina and Jane were speculating that you might be.” So I asked Jane about it and she told me what Chattina (which is a great nickname, btw) said, but the second coworker just told me while a few of us were chatting.

    3. AnotherAnony*

      Congrats! Just try to tune them out. In a previous position, my mostly all male coworkers were being snarky, thinking I liked my boss and one coworker even asked me if I missed him when he went on vacation. Then because I’m 30-something and not married, don’t have kids, I of course, might be a lesbian. (They never made fun of the single guys in the office.)

  67. Temperance*

    For all of you who are stuck dealing with even more nonsense from SEPTA, how are your workplaces handling? i’m fortunate to have a flexible schedule, but unfortunately, I need to be in the office this week and next for a variety of things.

  68. janie01*

    TL;DR I am being given a prime office to myself, way above my station and everyone is upset about it.

    A very senior (48 years of service) Engineer at my government agency was asked to give up his prime window office because he isn’t coming in frequently enough to warrant having such a nice office. He’s been given a hot desk to use when he does come in once a month or so.

    I (25 year old female, two years service) was hired to learn from him and eventually replace him. My boss’ boss is obsessed with office efficiency, and decided to put me in his office because it made geographical sense, and it was the least disruptive to the regular office (ie, if anyone else were to move, it would trigger a massive movement by everyone and lots of downtime as that happens). I’ve spent the last couple of days cleaning out his office and deciding what to keep, throw out, etc. I knew that my presence in that office would be controversial, so I purposely have not shown excessive enthusiasm for the new office, my go to if anyone asks is “I was asked to move here, yeah it’s nice to have a window” and if nobody asks I don’t bring up that I’m moving in there.

    HOWEVER, I have already gotten some very negative reactions, and backhanded comments (“this is highly unusual” – “totally unprecedented” – etc). I haven’t really responded to this in anyway, usually they end up walking off in a huff before I have a chance. This has only happened half a dozen times so far and I’m already feeling stressed out about it, I’m sure it’ll get worse once I actually move into the office (I was considering doing it over Thanksgiving when a lot of people would be on vacation) and I don’t know what I can say that will head them off. Am I just going to have to weather this? The boss’ boss had said to just say “Boss’ Boss told me to be here, talk to him” but it doesn’t seem to address the issue.

    1. orchidsandtea*

      I think you’ll just have to weather it. Your coworkers are being rude, and I think you’re right that blandness is the best response. “Yeah, I hear you that it’s unusual — Grandboss asked me to move here based on a number of factors. You can shoot him an email if you want.” And then change the subject to something work-related, because you don’t have time for this.

      I hope you love the office! Keep your stress level low by staring out your new window. ;)

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      It’s your office it was assigned to you. Honestly you probably deserve it or somebody would have gotten it. Keep that in your head. Chances are this will all blow over soon.
      But be prepared to shut down and redirect the conversation. Ignore when ever possible. Don’t be afraid to looks some one in the eye and say, “That’s not appropriate or productive, is there some thing work related you need from me?” Or go with, “How about them Cubbies?” The deflect and distract strategy.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      Hmmm. This is a tricky one. I’m on the opposite side of the issue, so I can see where your coworkers are coming from. I had an office for 6 yrs and lost it due to a relocation of our department, even though my role (PM) is an “office” position by company rules, and I have to admit I am a little pissy about it, even a year later. Some people who have offices are kind of in your situation — they have no business having offices by our offices vs. cubes rules, but by the circumstances of their department location and what seating is available, they have them.

      I think you can explain it to coworkers as being asked to move their by your boss, but maybe elaborate that the floor plan issues contributed (EVERYONE would have to move for this office to make sense for someone else), or even that you know you haven’t really ‘earned’ it yet and wouldn’t be surprise to get moved out soon.

      Meanwhile, enjoy. It’s not your fault.

      1. Observer*

        You actually give people who got offices flack?

        If someone who is not supposed to have an office gets one by being the one to push someone else out, that’s one thing. Otherwise, it’s utterly inappropriate.

    4. Elisabeth*

      It sounds like this move makes perfect sense and everyone will eventually calm down about it. I think your plan to keep it mellow and weather the storm is a good one. I’ve had to deal with similar awkwardness and you just have to rise above it. In a little while, people will forget a time when you WEREN’T in that office!

    5. Jill*

      I think the script Boss’ Boss gave you is pretty good. The “talk to him” part is maybe a bit too aggressive, but I think “Boss’ boss told me to be here” plus a shrug is all you need to contribute to these one-sided conversations. If they persist, tell them “Boss’ Boss said if anyone had questions about it to talk to him.”

      It’s not your job to manage your coworkers’ feelings about your move. If you are meant to replace the person whose office it was one day, it makes total sense you would get his office. They’re grown adults and while I can certainly understand why it might be annoying to see someone Not Them get the office, they should be able to handle it without being rude. All they deserve from you is the verbal equivalent of the shrug emoji.

    6. Golden Lioness*

      Do that (what boss’ boss said). Just repeat as necessary. Ignore all other comments. It will eventually die down, especially if you don’t react.

      Enjoy your new digs!

    7. Observer*

      I think that’s the best thing to say. It’s the simple truth, and shuts down the conversation.

      People don’t like it? take it up with the boss.

  69. Beezus*

    I’m working on an ERP software change. My role is a business super user (I know the business extremely well, and I’m adept at learning and understanding software, but my background is not technical – my job is to explain the business to the technical people and make sure the technical people explain things in terms the business people understand.)

    I’m getting frustrated by a difficult user on my team. She’s at a peer level with me, and has some knowledge I lack on a couple of critical processes in our old system, so I need to work closely with her to validate those processes in the new system. My boss keeps nudging me to use her to help with some of my overflow work, and I need to figure out how to diplomatically tell him that she’s not a good fit for that.

    She is very vocal, does not have a filter and she’s incredibly critical of other people’s work and their decisions. She’s great at identifying problems, but she’s not good at evaluating the size of the problem – everything is a showstopper, she can’t tell the difference between a critical design flaw and something that is a minor inconvenience that is ok to move forward as-is but should maybe be flagged for improvement at a later time.

    If I have her help me with validation and testing work, I am going to wind up spending time I don’t have defending the design and trying to evaluate the true urgency of the problems she identifies, and then trying to get her to de-escalate the ones that aren’t truly urgent, and then trying to smooth ruffled feathers on the technical side after she eviscerates perfectly good design work over small flaws and idiosyncracies.

    Does that sound compelling and professional? I am at the BEC stage with her and I need to make sure to be objective and factual with my boss – he doesn’t like conflict inside the team and some of the things about her that drive me up the wall seem to be positives in his book, so I have to be really careful about my critique.

    1. Janice in Accounting*

      I have been in a similar position and have had to deal with users who do not want the new software, don’t like anything about it, everything is on fire, etc. It can be so frustrating.

      Could you present yourself to her as her liaison to the technical staff? In other words, she works only with you and if she has any issues/concerns/complaints she presents them to you and then you will present them to the tech staff? You could provide her with an issues list that she can add to as she sees fit, and then you can go through those issues when you have time and decide if they are critical.

      If you give her your overflow work, make sure you’re very specific about what you need so she doesn’t go off on a tangent; for example, “Becky, will you please validate the year-end AP aging against the new system and then test the addition of these purchase orders, and place any issues you have on our shared issues list for discussion later” which might keep her from trying to evaluate and overhaul the entire Purchasing module.

      Best of luck!

      1. Beezus*

        She’s very conscious of hierarchy, status, and authority, and we’re peers on the org chart, so our manager would have to communicate that arrangement to her, she wouldn’t hear of it from me. Even then, I would expect her to badmouth me and try to work around me if she felt that I wasn’t passing things along to the tech side appropriately.

        I do think that it would help to give her very specific direction in what she is to evaluate and what she should look for will help, as long as I can keep her so busy with that stuff that she doesn’t have time to look for things to overhaul…you are so right, that’s exactly what she’d do! We have 90 days left to make design tweaks and test them, and I am so nervous that she’ll disrupt everything.

        She derailed a training session I was leading earlier this week with complaints about the extensive training requirements for the (extensive) access she needs to do her job. I was able to deflect and get the group back on track pretty quickly, but if she’s going to resist training and undermine me in front of the whole team, I really don’t want her involved in advanced prep work for launch.

        1. Janice in Accounting*

          Your manager will definitely need to make it clear that you’re the team lead–that’s so important if you have peers on your team, regardless of how irritating they are.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Why not just be straightforward with your boss about what you’ve said here? This is the kind of thing I’d very much want to know as a manager, and I wouldn’t want someone trying to find wording to say it delicately because that usually waters down the message.

  70. LawCat*

    I am trying to use less paper at work and store things digitally. We all have OneNote on our computers and I have been using it to organize some info and make checklists, but I otherwise don’t have a lot of knowledge/skill on the program. There is sometimes training on the program where I work, but nothing coming up in the next couple months. Does anyone recommend any particular online resources for learning the ins and outs of OneNote on your own?

  71. PanicAttack*

    ​
    Sorry – this is long! I’ve written in 3 open threads recently (most recent link is here and it includes links to the other prior posts) about a job I took 4 months ago.

    Summary if you don’t want to go to all the links: Was hired as a supply chain “manager” but with no actual management duties. Quickly learned that I would be solely responsible for implementing an ERP system (and integrating all their other software with it), within 3 months. Also learned I’d be managing a few non-exempt employees. Within my first 2 months, I noticed that those employees weren’t punching in, and when I asked them to start, one employee flipped out on me, accused me of harassment, sexual harassment, bullying and creating a hostile work environment all in one shot. His pregnant girlfriend and her mother also worked there. They slowly took away all the mother’s responsibilities from her, and gave them to me, then demoted her. The software project was unrealistic and I continued to tell them this and tell them I didn’t have the skill set for it. They told me that was how they got approval to hire me, because everyone else was “too busy” to do it. It took 4 weeks just to get them to give me access to their current data (which was all wrong anyway) and I also had to rely on getting information from the person they just demoted. The employee I was allegedly harassing continued to be argumentative, insubordinate, disrespectful and fought me about every single thing. There were talks about firing him or laying him off but they were nervous about the firing thing. My boss told me once the software was done, there wouldn’t be much supply chain work to do anyway, and that maybe I’d do customer service (making $72k/year?). The next day, I told him I was giving notice. At the end of the day, they came to me with the awful employee’s severance check and told me I needed to fire him because I “was the one having problems with him.” Everyone hated me – I don’t need to be liked, but I was set up. A week later, they fired his mother.

    Last Friday was my last day. When I told them I was moving up my notice period by 2 weeks (still gave 3 weeks!), my boss turned bright red and told me he couldn’t speak to me about it and legitimately didn’t speak to me except to occasionally say hi, and say bye on my very last day. I was uninvited to meetings, I was ignored, my boss would make up rumors about me and tell other people…. but I stuck it out and did my very best.

    I am panicking now about my future and have no idea how to handle this on my resume and job applications. As mentioned in a previous post, I have one other short-term job on my resume – which I COULD leave off, since I went back to my previous place of employment for a better role, but my manager at the short-term job LOVED me and gives me an amazing reference and I have some great accomplishments there. The company was having financial problems though so I left for security.

    Even when I started this new awful job of 4 months, I stayed on as a consultant at my previous job (I had been there about 2 years, and 3 in total if you count both stints). I could leave this most recent job off my resume, but it how do I explain the past 4 months? And what about places that require a resume and an application? Wouldn’t I have to list it?

    I feel like I’m a massive, walking red flag and failure, and truly, this is my own fault because I had such a bad feeling about this job before I took it (I turned it down at first!). Lesson learned – listen to my intuition. I have 10 years of experience and a highly-sought professional experience but no college degree (3 years of school though). I feel like it’s a perfect time to finish my degree but I’d also really like to have the option of getting another job.

    Any suggestions on the resume / application issue?

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      If I were you I’d enroll in school at least part time. then you can say you wanted a little time off before going back to school and then never speak of this awful job again.

        1. Master Bean Counter*

          Not unless it’s a background check as well. Which means some sort of government job.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      As far as talking about the job if it’s brought up, I would just say the job was not what was described in the interview and you did not have the skills to do the work they wanted done.

      1. Isben Takes Tea*

        ^This. That’s completely understandable, doesn’t sound like you’re badmouthing a former employer or admitting any kind of personal failure.

        Also, you are not a giant walking red flag and failure. You may have had some misgivings, but you entered into a social contract in good faith and were placed in an impossible position without the means to succeed. You are not at fault here, and, in fact, I’d say you showed excellent sense, proactiveness, and judgement in getting out as soon as you did.

      2. PanicAttack*

        Yeah, that would be my plan if it comes up. My biggest concern is even getting my foot in the door if I do include it on my resume. If I don’t include it, I have a big gap, and if I do include it, it shows that I left without something lined up.

    3. Beezus*

      I’ve been following your story!

      I think you’re OK. Allison covered your question about the application in a column a few years ago, I’ll post the link after this. Even if you do need to disclose the job, I think you’re fine with the right phrasing, especially since the other short-stint job you list comes with a great reference.

      Not So New Reader’s wording is great. If you decide to go back to school, you can add, “Since it didn’t work out, I decided to take some time out to finish my degree and regroup before jumping back into the workforce.” I’d be extra careful in your next job search to be sure that where you land is somewhere you want to be for a few years.

  72. Gung Ho Iguana*

    I have an awkward situation at work. I’m currently on a PIP at work and am looking for a new job. My boss places a lot of importance on putting in extra hours and finishing projects on time, even if the work is not fully complete or inputs from other departments are not in. I’m more detail oriented and like to have everything set before I proceed. In our industry, it’s extremely important to get things right, and there have been issues with this in our department to the point of having someone come in to evaluate our process. We have about 5 job openings and have had at least 3 people leave in the last year, so we’re very understaffed. My boss also doesn’t think that it’s his job to set priorities. When he laid out the plan for my PIP, I asked him how to handle my all the other stuff I do, and he didn’t seem to know what I do all day.

    To complicate things, I have a chronic condition that has made it difficult for me to put in a full schedule, much less overtime. My boss has not been very understanding about this and has basically left me to figure out the disability and medical leave issues myself with no guidance. When I asked about FMLA leave he didn’t seem to know what it was. I’ve known for a while that it’s time to move on, but didn’t have the extra spoons to job search. Ironically, I’ve recently been diagnosed with a second condition and I’m feeling much better since I started treatment.

    To sum up, it’s time for me to leave and I’m working on a plan. I have a very good shot at a position in another department doing related work, but I wouldn’t be able to move over for a few months, so I’m not going to take it for granted. Also, I don’t want to use my boss as a reference. I’ve only worked at this company, but I have a couple former managers I can ask.

    And now my question… We work in cubicles, and my office is near my boss’s. We can all hear each other’s conversations. A couple days ago, I think I heard him say that he wants another employee off his project. I didn’t hear it definitively so I’m not 100% sure, but I found it really unprofessional to say that where people could hear it. If I heard it right, it’s an employee that shares my detail oriented nature. He’s working on a project my boss is running, but is in a different department. I know the employee’s manager very well, and she’s one of the people I’m planning to ask for a reference. Should I tell her about this, or does it just muddy the waters? I’ve been planning to talk to her about the whole situation, but she’s out on vacation, and will be back Monday. Any advice for the overall conversation? Should I tell her about the PIP or just keep it more generic? She has a job opening in her area, and I don’t think it’d be a good fit, but I could be wrong.

    1. Janice in Accounting*

      You might want to check with HR to find out if they even allow internal transfers for people on PIPs

    2. Moonsaults*

      It’s not uncommon for managers to not understand ADA or FMLA because they depend too heavily on HR to know all that kind of thing. If you need to use FMLA, you need to speak directly with HR about that procedure.

      1. Gung Ho Iguana*

        Yeah, I know that now thanks to this website, by I didn’t back then. I didn’t realize they apply to my condition, so I didn’t know to ask.

    3. Chaordic One*

      Janice in Accounting’s advice about checking with HR to see if an internal transfer is allowed under the circumstances is a good first step. If so, then proceed with caution onto the next step.

      I would advise against telling her (the manager in the other department) about your boss wanting her employee off of his project. You might have heard wrong and your boss could always change his mind.

      It would not hurt to have a little conversation about the opening in her department just to find out a little more about it and to see if she thinks you’d be a good fit. I also wouldn’t tell her about the PIP at this point. If she thinks you might be a good fit for the position and you want to take things further, you should say something then.

  73. Xarcady*

    This is just a little PSA for those here who have temps working for them over the holidays.

    It would be a kindness to let all your temps know now what days they will *not* be working during the holiday season from Thanksgiving to New Years. Do you close the Friday after Thanksgiving? Does the boss always let people go a little early the day before the holiday?

    Temps don’t get paid holidays. So they need to budget more carefully around the holidays, when they, like everyone else, may have more expenses–gifts, food, travel–but less money than usual.

    The first year I temped, I expected to be off Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year’s Day. I did not expect two days off for Thanksgiving and two days off for Christmas. Nor did I expect to be told to go home at noon the day before each holiday started. “The CEO gave us permission to close early! Isn’t that great!”

    I ended up losing 6.5 days pay in a 5 week period. I survived, but not without some significant amount of worrying. Had I had a clue beforehand, I would have budgeted better.

    1. Sadsack*

      This is a good idea for employees to bring up, but also maybe any temps here will make a point to ask someone how their schedule might change around holidays.

      1. Xarcady*

        If the temp knows to ask.

        I had simply never had a job where the office closed for half a week for Thanksgiving. Some of my jobs, I had to work on Thanksgiving. So closing a company for half a week for a one day holiday was simply not on my radar.

        And in some companies, many permanent employees will get a day off, but the temps are expected to come in and cover for them.

        There’s also the factor that for some temp supervisors, just asking about time off gets you on their “naughty” list. They don’t see it as “I need to know how much money I’ll be making that week,” but as “I want as much time as possible off from this job,” and that sort of attitude is not viewed in a positive light.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          I suppose you could phrase it as “how much will I be able to work during Thanksgiving week – I hope I don’t have to miss too many days!”

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      This also affects hourly staff who work in a company like my OldJob, which penalizes them by forcing them to take these “freebie closings” as vacation time.

    4. not so super-visor*

      YES!! 1000+
      As someone who supervises temps, I always let them know ahead of time about the holiday schedule. We NEVER close early though…

      When I temped at another company (early in my career), they would let us work extra hours (even leading up to the week before the holiday) to bank towards upcoming holidays. My boss was awesome about it. She even stole one of the holiday turkeys that the company provided to employees (but not temps) for me because she knew that I was broke and struggling. I try to pay this forward when I can now, but unfortunately the winter holidays are our slow season, so I can’t always get the approval.

  74. Amy M in HR*

    Well, I am two months in at my new position that I moved across the US for, leaving my husband and daughter behind until they can come out after her graduation and his military retirement next year and guess what…it has been SO worth it. I love my job, coworkers, my new city, everything. It is tough for our family to be apart like this but we have all been so supportive of one another and it is a great feeling to be able to be in charge of where I live for once (instead of the military telling me where to live). Also, I am thankful for the advice from AAM, which helped me write a killer cover letter and resume. :-)

    1. JLK in the ATX*

      Congratulations on your transition to civilian life. We moved after he retired, too, for a job he had in another state. I picked up something quickly thereafter and it was good for awhile. Civilian is fun, but there are things we miss (mostly living overseas, travel, and the uqnieness of military traditions)

      We’re 4 yrs post military (we both served) and while we said, ‘It’s nice that the military won’t tell us where to go anymore.” Most people I’ve talked to find at the 4-5 yr point, they were stuck where they’re at and consider a new location (we are because there’s so few jobs in husbands career field) That’s when you find the nearest closet to clear out because you could find you’ll never do it again with no more household moves.

  75. Intrepid*

    I’m job searching, and one of my former managers offered to proactively put in recommendations for me anywhere I apply and he knows people. He’s well-connected in our area through his own work (which he’s done at a higher level and for longer than I have), so I’ve been happily availing myself of this offer and thanking him often.

    Except, it isn’t quite working. Part of it is that I’m going for highly competitive jobs and, in several cases, the openings have gone to an internal candidate. But part of me was wondering if I’m not somehow shooting myself in the foot– if this isn’t /done/, and so I’m transgressing some kind of boundary. I’m not seeing much of a difference in his recommendations vs. me applying cold, and if anything the advantage is going to my cold applications.

    And then I applied to an organization and he offered to reach out on my behalf to someone I’d overlapped with, when I worked with this manager. Only Overlap was a little cold to me, and tried to get me in a little trouble for something that wasn’t my fault, so then we were a little cold to each other, but we see each other from time to time and we’re always polite. And I’m just… curious. Would you keep using his help?

    1. Kyrielle*

      I might back it off and tell him that I appreciated it but that I didn’t want to spend his time that way, but could I use him for a reference? And if he agreed, do that. He may be overestimating his connections or overselling, or it just may be ineffective.

  76. Master Bean Counter*

    I love my new grandboss! He’s got a sense of humor. He believes in praising people. I didn’t realize how long it had been since I heard a good word a work until he said he liked the work I did on a report for him. And instead of being punished or cautioned about putting new information forward, I was praised.
    And in a complete Twilight Zone moment my current boss said he didn’t want to wait until the last minute to get things done any more. Considering he’s two days overdue on something for me I’m skeptical, but if what he says is true, then I can spend and extra day with family out of town this month. We shall see.

  77. Accommodations Update*

    I’ve posted a few times on here asking for information about medical accommodations under the ADA and about how the accommodation process went for other folks who have gone through it. I’ve asked for accommodations twice, both times at the same organization. My first time went mind bogglingly sideways, so I was apprehensive about asking for accommodations for a new health problem that cropped up.

    Much to my delight and surprise, the accommodations process this time around was so much better than it was the first time. All of my requests were granted and I’ve been able to continue to perform well despite my illness. In addition to working with me on the things I asked for, they came up with things that are helpful that I didn’t even know existed. I have a condition that makes me cold intolerant and my cold office (64-68 degrees) was causing problems. They not only did something with the duct work so I can cut the AC off during the summer so it doesn’t get so cold, but they also installed a radiant heating tile so I can supplement the heat when needed (and have heat when we’re in the weird in between times and the heat isn’t on but the office isn’t very warm).

    TL;DR – I requested accommodations and was extremely pleased with the process and outcome.

    1. fposte*

      I’m so glad to hear it! I also just wanted to comment so this gets more visibility–I think it’s important for people to hear when an important workplace discussion goes well, since most of the letters here are about when things go badly and it starts to seem like the norm.

      1. Accommodations Update*

        Thank you! This is exactly why I wanted to be sure to comment about how it went. When I had asked on here before, I received several responses about bad experiences people had had (which wasn’t a surprise to me considering my experience when I asked for accommodations a couple of years ago).

        I followed a similar process both times, but the second time around I was able to attend the face to face meeting between HR and the person ultimately in charge of my work (the first time, I wasn’t invited to the table). I think that may have had something to do with it being so successful.

    2. Suomynona*

      Perhaps the first, less fortunate time you asked for accommodation made the company realise that they needed to step up their game.

    4. Jules the First*

      Another shout out to employers with the sense to make accommodations – I have bad hips and find it uncomfortable to sit for more than a couple of hours a day. Standing desks are completely unheard of in my industry and my last office left me to kludge something together, so when I moved to CurrentJob, I was just kind of coping, until my boss walked by one day as I was leaving and was like ‘why are you hobbling?’ and I sort of went red and mumbled about health issues making it difficult to sit….and the very next day, our facilities guy dropped by to ask what accommodations I’d need. I mentioned a different chair or a standing desk, he asked which I’d prefer, and two days later they installed my sit-stand workstation. It’s one of the things I’m going to miss!

  78. Counting down...*

    Seven more days and I will be out of this toxic place. Ten more days until I start my new job! I can’t wait to get out of here. Today one colleague told another colleague, who just returned to work after losing her fiancé, that she needs to “grow up” and “stop whining” because a fiancé can be replaced and it’s not like losing a child, which is the worst. And of course toxic manager just shrugged and said “well he is right”. I can’t wait to be out of here forever.

    (Thanks to Alison for all her wonderful tips and advice. Without them I never would have had the confidence to look for a new job)

    3. Isben Takes Tea*

      OMG. That is so callous and unacceptable. I’m so glad you’re leaving! And I hope your coworker gets support elsewhere!

    5. orchidsandtea*

      Anyone who’s lost a child will tell you that grief is grief, and there’s no Grief Olympics to decide whose losses count. I am so terribly sorry to hear of your coworker’s loss. It is wildly inappropriate for your colleague to have responded that way, and since you’re on your way out, it would be a kindness for you to react in the moment. “Wow, Persephone, that’s a horrible thing to say.” So your grieving coworker knows she isn’t alone.

    7. Jenbug*

      OMG

      A friend of mine recently lost her fiance and I can’t help but wonder if you work where she does because I know she’s had various issues there in the past, but I don’t remember her sharing anything this awful.

    8. Charlotte, not NC*

      I cannot follow the logic of this at all. If we are going to pretend it’s okay to say that people can be “replaced”, then how is finding a new fiance different from having another child? I wish horrible people would at least make sense.

    9. Rebecca*

      I’m sorry you have to stay someplace like that for 7 more days. I hope it goes smoothly for you, and you do great at your new job!

    11. Menacia*

      I hope you get an opportunity to tell someone how inappropriate their comment was, sounds like this environment is rife with them and you will probably get more than once chance…

      Everytime I think I’ve heard it all…I haven’t…gross, just gross.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Grow up and stop whining.

      Well I see here who needs to grow up and it’s not your coworker.

      Not sure if you can, but let your coworker know I am very sorry for her loss and I am sorry her bosses are jackasses. I hope she is able to get out there soon,too.

  79. ButFirstCoffee*

    I just got laid off. Nothing like this has ever happened to me before. I am in shock. It was only 6 months- is it going to be impossible to explain that?

    1. Murphy*

      I’m so sorry :(

      You can just say that you got laid off, and I think most employers would be understanding of that.

    2. Janice in Accounting*

      Not at all, layoffs have happened to tons of people. Most of the hiring managers you talk to will probably have been laid off or had to lay someone off for purely business reasons.

    3. animaniactoo*

      Not at all – quite often the newest hires are the first to go when layoffs happen. It will not look unusual at all that it happened to you.

    5. SeekingBetter*

      I remember when I was laid off too, and feeling shock and sadness. Even though it’s been only 6 months, I’m pretty sure prospective employers will understand. Good luck on your job search!

  80. Anon Today*

    Thoughts on having a conversation with leadership about “this thing you’re doing feels like it’s on the road to discrimination”?

    Background: Two people in my office (me and a coworker) are pregnant, and we’ve been talking to each other about navigating a decreased workload, our leave policies, childcare, etc. Our office has pretty generous leave, but it’s noticeable (and not just by us) that actually doing the work as a parent is really tough. There’s also heavy turnover (>25% annually) due in large part to reasons that aren’t parent-specific (hours, lots of meetings, a workaholic/martyr culture).

    However, some people in our office have repeatedly asked if we plan to come back (and several folks on my coworker’s sub-team imply that she won’t), saying, “Well, lots of moms leave, so…” This feels like a chicken-vs-egg scenario–while it’s true that a disproportionate amount of staff who’ve left in the past 3 years have been new moms, addressing it on an individual basis is like cornering individual POC to solve the office’s lack of diversity rather than addressing the pattern via retention/recruitment strategies. It also feels “off” given the larger picture of turnover–other staff (including the 3 men in our office who became fathers last year) aren’t being questioned about whether they are sticking around, even though if the trends of previous years continue it’s likely some of them won’t.

    Fortunately, my direct supervisor has assured me she’s really invested in my success on the team and she’s proactively solicited my input on what I’ll need when I return. Since my work intersects with that of my coworker and her supervisor (and he has lots of influence over high-level decisions), I want to share with her my concerns. While I’m planning to return to work, the factors that influenced moms before me to leave aren’t being addressed. It also feels like a slippery slope to discrimination to hold a “loyalty” bar for pregnant staff that doesn’t apply to others in our office, which brings me back to my original question. I’d appreciate ideas and experiences, including ones related to other protected classes.

    1. Anon Today*

      Darn, I wanted my name to be “Anonymomma” (I’m a regular commenter) but hit “enter” too fast!

    3. neverjaunty*

      It IS on the road to discrimination. And it IS a chicken-and-egg issue – when a company makes it clear that new moms are not trusted and not welcome, and then acts all disappointed when said new moms decide “Eff this place and its crappy attitudes.”

      Personally I think you have to be aggressive about it, and flat out challenge them. “Why are you pushing me not to come back? Why are you saying you think I am untrustworthy?”

      1. Anon Today*

        Thanks, neverjaunty. It’s just so frustrating, especially since I work in social justice/equity work. I have a good amount of capital in my office, so I’m going to try your approach (and perhaps use the chicken/egg wording).

    4. Fridaaaaaaaay*

      Yes, definitely open up the conversation with the coworker, the boss, etc. Best of luck to you… it’s a tough spot to be in if you have an OT culture. I’m lucky that all the places I’ve worked before/after kids is more of a leave-at-5 culture. Even with that, it’s very hard to map out quality time with kids during the week… presently I get about 30min at home plus an hour commute in the morning with my kiddo, and an hour and a half in the evening. And since she’s small, there’s usually meltdown navigation to do, especially regarding getting her dressed in the morning and bedtime negotiations at night. Any OT I would do at the office steals from her time with me.

      Now that I’ve moved up in my career, there are times when work still needs to happen – and when it does, I do that work at home in the evening or weekend, either with my husband and kid close by or after she’s asleep if it’s something I really need to dive into. It really does feel so much better to be at home, at hand, even if you’re also updating a spreadsheet or whatever. I’d talk to your boss about WFH if you haven’t yet. Hell, there have been days I WFH and both the husband and the kid are at work/school, and I’m thrilled to just keep laundry moving at the same time as work. It’s the little things that add up to overall quality of life and satisfaction with career.

      1. Anon Today*

        Thanks. I already WFH a lot of the time (my job can be done remotely; I don’t even have a permanent desk at the office), but those same folks make snide comments about that, even though plenty of staff think getting together for in-person meetings is inefficient (we’re in a major metro area, yet they think nothing of folks spending 1+ hours in traffic each way for a 2-hour meeting).

    5. catsAreCool*

      “a workaholic/martyr culture” sounds terrible. I’m not surprised that people with other responsibilities (like kids or a life outside of the office) might want to leave.

      I think that after a certain point, working extra hours goes into diminishing returns, so being a martyr at work might not even be as efficient as getting work done within a reasonable amount of time and then going home.

      1. Anon Today*

        That’s what I do now, and I get good results, but the larger culture of our office is just so…self-righteous, and we focus on a political/social justice area that brings out the savior complex in folks. Definitely keeping my options open…

  81. CagedBirdBummed*

    So I just got a rejection from a job I was a bit excited about. Turns out the phone interview I had a couple weeks ago didn’t go as good as I hoped. It would have really been a major upgrade for me. Fortunately, I’m scheduled for an in-person interview for another position next week. I’m trying my best to move past this rejection and keep pushing on but to be honest, sometimes it feels like I’ll be stuck where I’m at forever. :-(

    1. MissGirl*

      I graduated college ten years ago and launched my job search. At one interview I thought I did especially well because the hiring manager invited me to sit on a staff meeting and introduced me to everyone. Right after the meeting, he rejected me. Said I didn’t have enough experience for the entry level job and I should do more internships. The week before I had been rejected from an internship because I didn’t have enough experience.

      I called my mom in tears and told her the only thing I had experience doing was to sell plumbing parts (my job during school) and no one would hire me for anything else. She told me of her being a young mom trying to find a job with no degree; the only work she found was receptionist. She took the job but hated answering phones. Eventually she launched another search but to much rejection. At the local community college, she vented to a career counselor about how the only thing she could do was answer phones. The counselor said if you don’t want to answer phones, you don’t have to; there are other jobs.

      It was simple advice but it awakened her to new possibilities. Eventually she found a job in accounting and payroll. And a month after our conversation, I found a job as an editor in book publishing. Now I’m completely changing careers and constantly reminding myself that I don’t have to stay in one place forever, and I will find a new job.

      Keep pushing on. Only if you stop will you be stuck where you are forever.

  82. Larina*

    If someone does inappropriate things to coworkers at a post-company party trip to the bar, is this something they can be reprimanded for at work/constitute as a hostile work environment?

    Ie, guy touches two female coworkers knees without consent and then refuses to accept a no when trying to buy another female coworker a drink.

    1. fposte*

      They absolutely can be reprimanded for it at work or fired for it at work. It’s not going to be a hostile work environment in its own right, but if it’s part of a larger picture and the workplace doesn’t take any action about any of it it could factor in.

  83. Jo Riley*

    I just accepted a new job! I have to give credit to Alison for a lot of it–one of my interviewers specifically commented on how great my cover letter was, and on how great a question this was: askamanager.org/2009/12/great-question-to-ask-your-interviewer.html

    The negotiation process was awkward and painful (in part because I had no idea what a reasonable counter-offer was), but I did manage to get the salary up to a place I’m happy with. Huzzah!

  84. Loopy*

    Thoughts on people who really dislike doing anything outside of their defined role? I am in the same role as one other person and other person hates being told to do things not under her job description whereas I am more open to doing anything that gets me more well rounded experience, even if it’s really unrelated. Note that these instances never interfere with our core duties and come up when things are slow.

    Is one route wiser than the other long term? Can my willingness backfire on me?

    1. De Minimis*

      It’s usually better to be willing to go outside your job description, but I would not be open to doing things unless I was willing to have them become a regular part of my job.

      1. Loopy*

        That’s a good point. I guess overall I like being busy so I’d rather be able to jump to other areas when my own slows down rather than reorganizing my failed for three hours. I didn’t really think beyond that.

    2. rage is my caffeine*

      I’m wondering if your coworker has been bitten by the ol’ “other duties as assigned” thing before. I’ve worked in places where that category just keeps getting bigger and bigger until what you’re doing bears almost no resemblance to your actual job description. Is it possible this is a case of once bitten, twice shy?

    3. J*

      It can be a comfort zone thing. I don’t mind pitching in for all-hands-on-deck type projects, but there are things that are a pretty poor match for my personality/skills that I actively do not love doing.

      As far as the long term, there’s no good answer for that. It depends on the company culture and the relationship the employee has with the rest of the department.

    4. Theresa*

      I think it honestly depends. In my current position, I’m being stretched and asked to do lots of things that aren’t in my description and that aren’t actually related to my position. I feel like I can’t say no to these tasks, so I’ve resigned myself to doing them. I’m resistant to these tasks because they aren’t duties that are related to my actual skills. I wouldn’t mind being asked to do things outside of my current role if supports were provided OR my current skills/abilities were taken into consideration.

    5. Emma*

      Your willingness can absolutely backfire on you. I’ve had it happen to me, where those things beyond my actual job became an expected part of it, and I’ve heard too many other people tell me it’s happened to them. This is also why I don’t think always picking up extra shifts, always staying late, or always being available is a good idea – if you do something all the time, people often stop seeing it as extra/not a part of your base job, and if you ever do want/need to pare back down to your actual job, you often can’t. And you won’t necessarily be seen as a more valuable employee for it, either – since it’s seen as normal, you’re not going above and beyond anymore, you’re just doing your job.

      I mean, that kind of job creep isn’t guaranteed to happen, but it can – if you don’t mind if that happens, or think it’s worth the benefits, fine. But be alert to that possibility.

      For what it’s worth, in addition to no longer being willing to always do extra things, I’m pretty leery of working with someone else who always does extra things, because they can often end up pushing everyone into doing more. After all, if Sue can do all this, and this is all part of Sue’s job, and I have the same job, surely I can/will do it all too, right?

      I think, for everyone, it’s generally wiser to be strategic. Don’t always pick up every extra shift, don’t always do every extra duty, especially if they’re very unrelated. Do some of those things – to stretch your own skills, to be seen as going above and beyond, to be a team player, etc. – but not all the things. Don’t do so much that job creep happens, don’t do so much that those unrelated things become part of your job. Obviously, don’t be too unwilling to help either, and don’t pass on genuine opportunities that can benefit the path you actually want to be on, but, basically, be thoughtful about it.

  85. Leatherwings*

    So I’m starting a new job this week (Thanks to everyone here who answered questions/expressed sympathy when I was laid off a month and a half ago. It turned out to be a quick turnaround, thanks to the advice from this wonderful community) and during the offer stage, I worked to negotiate vacation time. I grew up very far away from where I live now, and the holidays are really important to my family so I wanted to be able to take time and go visit at the end of December.

    I love my new manager, she’s a big part of the reason I accepted this job. However, HR were the ones doing the negotiating because new manager was out of town. They said “yes, we’ll be able to work something out for Christmas, but you’ll have to discuss the exact details with your manager. She left us a message to let us know she’ll be very flexible”

    So given that lack of clarity, how should I go about asking for time off? My manager knows it was a condition upon which I accepted the job, but I don’t want to appear like I’m trying to take a bunch of time off. My ideal would be a combination of borrow-ahead vacation days for travel, then working remotely while I’m visiting family. Is that too much to ask in a new (and not particularly senior) role?

    1. fposte*

      I think if HR said it should be okay, there’s no reason for you to ask for less now. “Jane, I wanted to talk to you as early as possible to give you plenty of time on this. As you probably know, HR and I talked about my keeping my existing holiday plans in place when I came aboard; I was thinking I’d work remotely during the first week of January, and I would be willing to borrow ahead for vacation for the December days, which HR said would be okay. Would that work for you?”

    2. animaniactoo*

      I think you can put it out there as “This is my ideal, but I have no idea if it’s really too much to ask for. What do you think?” Company culture this could be an outrageous amount, or it could be perfectly fine and possibly even “Are you sure you want to work remotely while you’re there?”*

      But by showing you’re open to being told it’s too much, it allows them to think of you as somebody navigating it rather than feeling entitled to ask for it.

      (*Hey, I’m going on vacation tomorrow, there’s a potential last-minute issue, I said I could come in if needed on the day I get back, but it would be late and my boss gave me a look and said “Really, animaniactoo? You’re not doing that.” I told her it wasn’t that I wanted to, but I would if I had to, and she told me to shut up and stop talking right then. Issue closed, do not come in that day.)

  86. Jobs Posting Questions*

    What are some good steps a jobs-posting site can take to encourage more applicant-friendly postings? I’m particularly interested in avoiding the sorts of things that can turn off underrepresented groups–I work in tech and there’s a lot of “perks” touted like “free beer!” and “we do sports as a team!” which can be problematic for people who don’t drink and people with disabilities, respectively.

    I’m also interested in any empirical data that might track how job posting styles might influence who applies. For example, Stack Overflow did a study where they found posting a salary range for a job increased applicant levels, even in the lower salary bands.

    1. ScarletInTheLibrary*

      There is a lot of discuss in my profession about how to attract diverse applicants. The interesting thing is that a lot of institutions come across as disingenuous because their staffs don’t reflect the overall population. It’s a catch-22, because if an applicant doesn’t see people that look like them (or have names that they think are people like them), they are less likely to apply.

    2. MissGirl*

      This is a very interesting question. An alumni of mine who works for a famous sports company, whom a lot of people would love to work for, is having difficulty with this exact thing. She’s a recruiter for their tech division and the sports perks that attract most everyone else don’t work as well for her department.

      I definitely would get rid of the two examples you stated above. I know a lot of start-ups push things like beer or ping pong tables as a way to attract applicants because their pay and benefits stink. A lot of people are leery of such offers. I see above postings and I think frat boy culture; won’t be able to get my work done because everyone’s partying. First and foremost, mention the things most people care about: good pay, insurance, benefits. When you talk about the culture, mention more work-related issues. Is it team-based, individualistic, value life outside of work, may work nights but you’ll come in late, get your work done and go home 9 to 5. These type of things will help far more in increasing applicants but still help people sort themselves out.

  87. anon for today- my boss reads AAM!*

    I’ve never run into this issue before and am hoping for some feedback!
    I had an interview on Wednesday and I was wanting to follow up with an email as usual to thank them for their time. However, when I looked at the interviewer’s business card later, no email address was listed. It’s possible they don’t use email at all in that position (health care, social work.. security issues with email use possibly?), I’m not sure.
    Thoughts on the best way to follow up? A phone call feels awkward. Mailing a card maybe?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I’d go with snail mail or nothing. I don’t think phone calls are hardly ever a good way to follow up. Alternatively, you could try sending a thanks for a general email if you’ve got one and ask for it to be forwarded?

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Who did you communicate with to coordinate the interview? Email that person and ask if they would be comfortable sharing the email of your interviewer, as you noticed it was not listed on the business card. Alternately, compose the thank you email and send it to the coordinator with the note, “Eleanor, would you mind passing along my thanks (below) to Percival? And my thanks to you for coordinating it all!” or similar.

      1. anon for today- my boss reads AAM!*

        That person actually had also called me to schedule, I’ve never had email communication with anyone in the office. I haven’t had contact with HR or anything. My interview was with the three existing team members, if that makes sense.

        1. Not a Real Giraffe*

          Ah, then it’s probably a company that doesn’t use email. In that case, snail mail or nothing.

    3. Chaordic One*

      I’ve run into situations where the interviewer was new to the job and didn’t even have a business card. I’ve also rung into organizations that were bizarrely protective of such confidential information as email addresses. Go figure.

      So send a thank you card by snail mail.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        Once I had an interview via a recruiter and wanted to thank the interviewer, but she did not give me her card, so I asked the recruiter to forward my message.

  88. Cass*

    I just started a new job – and I love it! I am currently sharing an office (totally not a problem for me nor did I have expectations of having my own) and within 3 days my boss came to me and said he’s making sure we change to private offices in a few weeks so we can have our own space. And lots of little other things like that this week that have been showing me I’m a valued and important member of the team. (VERY different from my last two jobs!) So I’m kind of riding work-cloud-9 now! Hope everyone has a good weekend :)

  89. NYer*

    I am female and I’ve worked alongside many men in my career.

    Some men are very respectful and reasonable toward women. They treat women like human beings and respect their opinions. Other men are condescending and dismissive towards women as opposed to other men. (Think “mansplaining” and “manterruptions.”) It leads me to wonder how and why different men have such diverse views of female coworkers.

    Is it their upbringing? Their values? Do any of you have any ideas?

    My husband was raised by a single, working mom. He grew up with two sisters who now work in a law firm and an investment bank. And his last 3 managers were all women. He treats male and female colleagues equally and has never condescended to someone because of gender. I wonder if his ability to work well with women stems from his upbringing.

    I also wonder, do men who are married to working women treat female coworkers differently than men who are married to stay-at-home wives? Controlling for all other factors (such as intelligence, work ethic, personality), if a man is married to a software engineer, for example, would he have less difficulty working alongside a female coworker? If a man is married to a stay-at-home wife, is there a part of him that believes his female coworkers are doing something unnatural by working and should instead be tending to their homes?

    One of my male coworkers is married to a stay-at-home wife, and he’s pretty respectful towards me. So perhaps the above theory is bunk.

    I’d love to hear both male and female points of view.

    1. AnotherAlison*

      Female mechanical engineer/PM here. I don’t think there’s one across-the-board factor that applies to everyone.

      My male project sponsor is one of my favorite people to work with. He’s 50-ish and his wife works now (in special ed) but was a SAHM for most of their marriage. He treats me the same as the men, and better than the men who don’t perform as well as I do. However, another coworker of the same age is kind of weird about me being in my role and thinks women should stay home and raise kids. His wife is from the Middle East, but he is a white guy from the same US city we work in.

      I have noticed some solidarity from men with wives who have professional careers and children. They understand the juggle of making an 8 am meeting and dropping off kids, conflicting business trips, etc. But there are still a few men with professional wives who are condescending (young, old, all different races and backgrounds).

    2. neverjaunty*

      I don’t see how you can control for all other factors. The wife’s career is also not necessarily a proxy; there are all kinds of reasons a male-female couple may have the wife staying at home. Also, there are plenty of profoundly sexist dudes who absolutely want their wives to have a traditionally male-dominated career (subordinate to theirs, of course) precisely because they have contempt for women who engage in traditionally female pursuits.

    3. Student*

      There’s research studies that shows a male manager with either a working wife or a daughter are more likely to treat women at work like humans. The AIP (American Institute of Physics) in particular does some neat, easy-to-grasp published research on stuff like this aimed at women employed in physics. One of their findings that I thought particularly interesting showed that men with children get a “father boost” to their careers compared to men without kids, in a mirror of the more well-known “mommy penalty” that comes when women have children.

      I’m a woman, and I was raised in a women-aren’t-really-humans household. Both my mother and my father were of the opinion that women are for bearing children and entertaining men. I rebelled and pursued a career instead of a family (and I’m glad I did). However, it took me until probably mid-college to start seeing other women as fully human, and took really about a decade to go from “women suck” to “women are just other people”. I internalized a lot of my parent’s thinking, even though I openly rejected much of it. I used to justify it by thinking I was a “special” woman who was fully human, and if you start looking for it there is a ton of popular cultural material to encourage this destructive and divisive line of thinking – that there are a couple “special” women and a bunch of “bad” women. Start with Cinderella, and then you start seeing the trope everywhere. It’s often under the guise of female empowerment – in the Hunger Games, for example, there’s one good woman main character, a bunch of supporting males, and a bunch of wicked women, broken women, or damsels in distress. Main character is sold as special, an exception to all the people who accept their… inherent inferiority (by district).

      Now that I’m older, I know that I’m not Cinderella, and the world isn’t full of evil step-mothers and wicked sisters – that we’re all humans with some different goals and interests and that’s all right. But, it took me a long time to get there. I’m not surprised that men from similar backgrounds don’t easily believe we’re fully human. When your own mother believes that men are inherently superior, you have to reject a core value and defining characteristic of your own mother to decide otherwise.

      1. lurker*

        Wow, this is very insightful. I had very egalitarian parents and with the best intentions they encouraged me towards a lot of those “empowering” books and movies, and for a while growing up it produced an effect very similar to what you describe. Never saw the reasoning spelled out so clearly. So frustrating how hard it is to NOT internalize sexism!

      2. Saturnalia*

        Just wanted to say that I’m on a similar journey, though with different reasons behind the starting point of “most women suck and I’m an exception.” Thanks for pointing out how common this is in our cultural stories, and if you are open to sharing any other resources or lines of thought that helped you progress I would be grateful. I am super ready to be done with this part of my jerkbrain.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Only tangentially related, I read of a study that showed men who have daughters tend to be more aware of how they treat women in the workplace.

  90. Don't say my name*

    I cannot take minutes. I cannot hear. I don’t know what anyone is talking about.
    I have to do this now because Boss says so.
    Somebody please kill me.

    Please.

    1. Junior Dev*

      That sounds really stressful. If you’re physically not able to hear well enough or you have a sensory processing issue, those would be disabilities that your work needs to accomodate. Even if it’s not a disability you could probably talk to your boss and ask if there’s some other way you could contribute to meetings, as taking notes is difficult for you and you’re concerned you’d miss things. Good luck getting this sorted out.

    3. NaoNao*

      Can you use a recording program on a mobile or tablet?
      Could you approach your boss and explain in more detail what the hearing problem is? Ie “I have XYZ medical condition, which makes it very difficult for me to hear and write notes in real time. I am NOT a good choice to take notes during meetings. What can we do about this?”
      When you say you don’t know what anyone is talking about, is that related to not being able to hear clearly or is it because you’ve been pulled into a meeting where the topic is something you don’t understand or don’t know? I know on my first day at a new job I was in an all hands meeting about a shift in departments and I felt close to panicky because I had no idea what they were discussing. So, if that’s the case, is it possible to simply write down what is literally being said without trying to understand it?
      If you’re on a webinar, could you take screenshots of any materials being shared? Could you ask for an agenda ahead of time to help you follow? Can you approach participants one by one and ask them “Hey, Lorinda, could you send me your notes/presentation/agenda for today’s meeting?” That might help you get a head start on the content and help you with understanding what’s going on enough to take notes.
      Finally, try not to panic *before* a negative consequence. If AAM has taught us anything, it’s that employees can outright refuse to do their duties, not do their duties well, or forget to do their duties and still be employed (trying to be a little lighthearted here!). Not being able to take notes, unless it’s in your job description, *probably* won’t be a firing offense. Just get on top of it and suggest alternatives “Can we make this a webinar and record it?” “Can we have Jack take notes instead–he’s done it for our meetings and he’s great?” and make it about business if you can.

      1. zora*

        I second the recording option. If it’s a conference call, most conference call systems have recording capabilities now. If it’s in person, someone has a smart phone that can record the meeting. Then you or someone else could transcribe notes later.

    4. zora*

      Ugh, that sounds horrible! Can you make it sound like a technical issue?
      “Boss, there might be something wrong with my phone, but I cannot make out what people are saying clearly enough to take accurate minutes, especially since I’m not up to speed on the context of the meeting.”

      Hopefully Boss will realize this just isn’t a good solution and will come up with another one? Can the meeting be recorded instead to be captured later?

      1. Don't say my name*

        Update, sorry I was out of town.

        Meeting is recorded and I asked about a link–I will find out when I get in today if that helped. I think it’s mostly bad sound (these are webex meetings), and some people were clear and some weren’t.

        But also I have no idea how to do it. I’ve never done it before. I don’t understand any of their work and have no fecking clue what these people are even talking about. Plus, everyone around me is always talking on the phone (cube farm). It’s noisy and annoying. Friday only one person was there but he was on a call and TALK TALK TALK TALKITY TALK. So it wasn’t quiet even then. They talked about something I’m doing now and how it fits into the process, but I didn’t need to be there for that. I’m just the department monkey now. I don’t feel like an admin with important tasks; I feel like a monkey frantically trying to arrange ever-growing piles of ugly little unfamiliar sticks that are also never-ending.

        I can’t complain becuase I’ve already been in trouble over this job changing. Aside from it being a totally different job now, it went from quiet, satisfying, and non-stressful to BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM. Trapped here for now because there is no way out. I have to just hide how BEC I am until I find an escape. :(

  91. Danae*

    Is it the norm for government agencies (in this case, local government) to request references to be sent to them when you’re first applying for a position?

    I applied for a job over LinkedIn with a local government agency. (County government, if it matters.) They requested that I email them a cover letter, resume, and three references. I’m not going to continue in the application process, since I have no desire to give my references’ contact information to an agency when I don’t even know for certain if the job is one I’d want, but I am wondering if this is something to be expected when applying for government jobs.

    (I am resisting writing them back and telling them that the request for references at this stage of the process means I won’t be continuing.)

    2. fposte*

      It’s the norm at my state university. In fact, LORs generally have to be uploaded along with the application.

    3. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Yeah, this isn’t all that uncommon with government agencies – I’d say about 25% of the places I’ve applied have asked for references up front, and it’s pretty common for the ones requiring online profiles to do the same. Like Murphy said, I wouldn’t expect your references to be contacted until later in the process.

    4. Danae*

      Well, no applying to government for me, then! I assume it’s not cool to ask in a cover letter that my references not be contacted without letting me know first.

      (I have to give all of my references heads-ups when I give out their contact information, and I hate to have to contact everyone when I’ve just put in an application. In the area where I live, you never, ever, ever give out someone’s contact information without contacting the person whose information you give out and letting them know who’s got their phone number.)

      1. fposte*

        If you find a job opening you like I would ask them when you apply rather than assuming it would be a problem, though; we get applicants from all over the country who include reference info with their contacts, so it can’t be that inviolable a standard.

      2. Pwyll*

        Could you not contact them to say you’re applying to a few Government jobs and they require references up front?

      3. DragoCucina*

        If you find something you’re interested in let you references know. Some systems auto generate a reference form when the application passes the first hurdle. When I’ve been given as a reference I get an email with a link to the online form.

    5. Frankie Seeks Job*

      I applied for a couple of government jobs, and they all requested reference information at just the online application stage too.

    6. LadyKelvin*

      Almost every job I’ve applied for asks for references when I apply, but I’ve only had them be called after I interview. I wouldn’t let that stop you from applying because most of the time its easier to have everything at one place then gather bits of your application as you go.

    7. CMT*

      It’s not going to do much to tell them why you’re not going forward. Government hiring practices are pretty rigid. But I would seriously doubt they’re contacting references at this stage.

    8. H.C.*

      Ditto here and agreed with Murphy, references were requested from the get-go, but they weren’t actually contacted until after first interview (& hiring manager mentioned reference check as next step.)

      You can also provide your references’ email addresses instead, so they are not put on the spot with an unexpected phone call, and can take some time with their responses (& let you know along the way).

  92. Lilly with two Ls*

    I am freaking out. I applied for an internal position on a different team (fairly different role but an upgrade in pay and a better location). I applied 2 days ago and jave just been invited to interview next week. It will have a 45 minute test first. Then a panel interview.

    My current role didn’t have a test and I have no idea what they will be testing? The interview I will do great at but I am nervous about this test. Its a heavily administrative role with some public facing. Some investigation. Most of it is evaluating peole for something (but its not HR/Recruitment). Trying to be vague while still giving information.

    What kind of things do you think I should prepare to be tested on??

    1. NaoNao*

      It could be a typing or keyboarding test if it’s admin work. It could be how well you know the software that’s key to this job. It could be a personality or pysch test (remote chance, but could be). Is there someone you could approach, either the hiring manager or an employee in the same job or similar job and ask? Can you poke around on Glassdoor and try to find out or do some online research for “Teapot High Admin Public Facing job Tests” or the like?
      Maybe they’re making you take the same test you’ll be administering? And then asking you how *you* would administer it? Just spitballing there.

    2. not so super-visor*

      It really depends on the role. I’ve been tested on things like spelling, grammar, simple math, and knowledge of Excel/Microsoft applications. I’ve also had to take Personality Indicators that ask how you react to certain situations or pick words that describe you. If it’s a personality test, there’s not much that you can do to prepare. If it’s a rule that works with any type of regulations (like DOT regs or AP style), you would want to brush up on your knowledge of those.

  93. Effie*

    Hi All!

    Long time-reader, first-time commenter! I have a bit of a quandary and I’d love some insight!

    Background: I work part-time for a tiny franchise that has always done things a bit differently from our big corporate locations. I have a new coworker, Bonnie, who transferred from a corporate location. She’d only been in the position for three months prior to transfer, and then there was some lag time in between her time at corporate then her start time with us. She was trained by our supervisor, who is both new to the supervising position and had never worked in my coworker’s and my position (“Teapot Dispenser”). Furthermore, instead of five shifts/twenty hours of training, Bonnie received only one or two training shifts. Historically new Teapot Dispensers are always trained by current, experienced Teapot Dispensers instead of the supervisor because there is a huge difference between what Teapot Dispensers do and what the Teapot Dispenser Supervisor does, and if our previous supervisor had to be the one to provide training, she did have about five years’ experience in the Teapot Dispenser position.
    So my new coworker has gaps in her knowledge both because of the difference in location and due to incomplete training, which both I and another coworker of mine, Isis, have noticed (there are about five of us total in this position. I have not polled my other experience coworkers and the topic came up organically between Isis and me). Individually we’ve tried gently letting Bonnie know certain things but she becomes very passive aggressive. Furthermore, since we’re all in the same position, we don’t feel comfortable telling what to do the way a supervisor would as it really goes against the company culture.
    I’d love to bring this up with my supervisor, but what would be the best way of doing so? I don’t want to suggest that my supervisor is incompetent and perhaps she is trying a new thing by changing the way training is done, but Bonnie’s knowledge is really incomplete. Furthermore, since she used to work at a corporate location, some of the knowledge that she does have is incorrect. There are things that Bonnie does not do that are based on unsaid/ingrained practices, that can probably be overlooked, or that can be corrected by letting her know (if she were open to listening and learning, which she hasn’t been). However, there are things she does that are completely against company policy at our location at least (I’m pretty sure at least some things would not be okay at her former location either but perhaps she thinks that since this is a smaller location those absolute rules are more flexible).

    Thanks for reading! I’d appreciate any advice.

    1. animaniactoo*

      I would simply tell new supervisor directly that there seem to be gaps in Bonnie’s training that still need to be addressed. Give a couple of examples, and then leave her to handle it. Don’t get into your thoughts about why there are issues, just mention the issues themselves in a pro-active heads-up this is handle-able kind of way and leave supervisor to it.

      Potentially you could ask supervisor their thoughts behind switching how training is done, but I think that might need to be a separate/different conversation. They may have thought it excessive, they may have been unaware of the previous practice, etc. and that could let you explain what worked well about it – they might want to reinstitute or incorporate some of it into the way they want to work now.

      2. Effie*

        I had a conference call with my supervisor today and I did just that! I was very factual and it turned out fine! At the end I also brought up how I was trained and she thanked me and said she was unaware that that was the protocol and would schedule additional training (direct shadowing) for Bonnie. Thanks again!

        1. Effie*

          OMG, I had a conference call but the conversation was at the end when it was just my supervisor and me on the line

        2. animaniactoo*

          Yay! Glad to hear it went so well! (and yes, I assumed you meant when it was just the two of you on the line. 8•) )

  94. Jenny Erik*

    Hello everyone!

    I am contemplating making a big career change in the moderately near future (1-2 years). I’m currently working as an adjunct professor (music) and part-time retail worker, and the uncertain schedule and poverty-level pay are starting to wear thin. I’m not quite ready to abandon my dream of being a full-fledged college professor with a regular performing schedule, but I can’t keep scraping by forever and, since my instrument (percussion, but not drum set) is fairly obscure, the job market is beyond abysmal. The public school system in my state has basically imploded and shows no sign of improving, so moving into middle or high school teaching isn’t a great option for me either. There’s nothing inherently wrong with retail, but it’s a bad fit for my personality and it always leaves me feeling exhausted and discouraged, even after a relatively good day at work.

    The question I’ve come to ask the AAM commentariat about is two-fold:

    1) Am I trapped? I have two BAs (2010), one in music performance and one in biology and an MM in Music Performance (2012) and all of my work experience is music, teaching, and part-time retail. I’ve been a pet store associate, a cupcake shop cashier/dishwasher/decorator, and a clothing store associate. I have no management training and I’ve never worked in an office. I’m not looking for a a high-level job, just something that pays more than $12k a year, comes with health insurance, and lets me know my schedule more than 24 hours in advance. Do you think it’s possible to make a change like that with my kind of education and work history?

    2) If it is possible, where do I start? The only jobs I’ve ever looked for are retail and academic–I’m not sure where to look for postings outside of those two fields. I’ve seen people post about working with temp agencies–what are they like? Do I need to be completely available to work with one, or could I keep teaching part time?

    I’m sorry to ask such an unwieldy question. I just feel lost and I’m a bit ashamed that I don’t already know the answer. Thank you.

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I don’t have any concrete advice, but I can tell you that my husband walked this path. He was a (trombone) performance major, and after taking auditions for several years, subbing, teaching, etc. decided that it was time to move on to a more secure/predictable career path. He got connected to an entry-level job (doing processing work at a big finance company) through a high school friend, was hired, and has parlayed that into a business career.

    2. Effie*

      Hi Jenny!

      I’ve had a very similar experience. Currently I have a steady office job and teach dance part-time, and I majored in a kind of obscure humanities degree and was a dancer with a lot of retail and teaching/tutoring work experience. When I was trying to move out of retail it felt really hopeless. One of the best things that I did was to make a list of transferable skills (ex good with difficult customers, multitasking, etc) and a list of things that I wanted to do or wanted in a job (which seems like you have already). So yes, I think it is absolutely possible to make a change with your kind of education and work history! I’d also caution against using mostly negatives with your job wants list (don’t limit it to things you don’t want to do! Think about what you’d like to do too. Do you want to work mostly with people, or do you want something less customer-interaction focused? etc)

      I don’t have a whole lot of experience with temp agencies. I believe it depends on the agency. I signed up for one with limited availability as a dance instructor and I got interview notifications in advance, and a lot of same-day temp requests (starting on the same day for a period of time), which I was free to accept or reject. Nothing really panned out for me, and of course YMMV.

      I’ve had to start over twice (the first time when I was trying to move out of retail, the second time when I moved to a city where I was over 3000 miles away from home and anyone I knew), and I focused on entry-level positions. I also used “coordinator” as a search query and it pulls up all kinds of jobs across industries that don’t require too much relevant experience; usually having a BA is the biggest minimum requirement. If it helps, before finding my current job doing data entry, I worked as a receptionist in a sales & marketing office (1 year) and customer support for a startup (1 year).

      Hope this helps!

    3. SJ*

      Have you looked into higher ed administration? People from all kinds of backgrounds filter into those positions. My MA is in Irish Studies and now I work in development.

    4. BRR*

      I’d take a look at the administrative openings at art organizations. I second what effie suggested and make a list of transferable skills.

  95. Jinx*

    I’m looking to update my resume, which I haven’t done since I graduated college. I’ve been at my first professional job for a little over two years. I think Alison has recommended focusing on achievements rather than job duties, and I have a list of things that I consider achievements. I’m just not sure if they are resume worthy, and if so, how to word them. Any advice would be appreciated. :) Sorry that this is long.

    1) My employer paid for me to attend an expensive and very well-known conference in our industry. They only sent a few people, not everyone who was interested.

    2) Using the things I learned at the conference, I spent some time at work on the side developing a template specific to the way we work that should improve our project process substantially (it incorporates automation and other concepts that are big in the industry right now, but that my company has spent little energy adopting to their detriment). It hasn’t been proven yet, but my manager is interested and has presented it to my team for adoption. I feel like this at least demonstrates that I try to learn and improve in a way that adds value. If the template does end up improving our projects, how can I show that?

    3) I was put on a project that was about halfway complete, sinking fast, and built on a system that I had never used. I was able to get up to speed and basically take over leadership of the project, which is now on track. My manager and team members have expressed that I picked up the new system unusually quickly. I also feel like the project will succeed, and that I’m a big reason for it getting back on the rails. I have been doing many of the project lead tasks even though another team member is technically the lead (which is a whole other can of worms that I don’t want to get into on a resume, but can I get away with mentioning lead experience where I wasn’t the official lead?).

    Part of the problem I have with talking about my work is that I don’t want to come off as boastful or egotistical. I try to be objective, but I’ve noticed in the past that I tend to downplay my involvement in things because I don’t want to offend people or sound like a glory-hound. I want to find the balance where I can show that I really am a kick-ass worker without coming off like a jerk. I am also a woman in a male-dominated field, which doesn’t help.

    1. Mints*

      I think you should definitely put #2 & #3 once they’re completed.
      Also for #3 I’d avoid using the word “lead” on its own, or use it in past tense (“led” the project) and just list the things you did, which are impressive!
      Getting credit for things you did isn’t being a jerk

    2. aeldest*

      I’m probably not the best person to tell you if #1 is resume-worthy, but if you do decide to add it, I’d word it something like “One of [3, or however many] out of [100, or however many] employees chosen to attend [and represent $Company, if that’s true] Well-Known Conference because of [whatever merit, whether that’s networking skills, high productivity/efficiency/sales for the quarter, etc].” I don’t think you need to call it expensive or mention that the company paid for it.

  96. spiralsofgrace*

    I had an interview this week that I think went really well! The company has already contacted my references, and the recruiter has mentioned a few times that she believes they are working up an offer.

    I may be getting ahead of myself then, but I’ve started to think about my leaving my current position. How honest should I be in my exit interview?

    This whole process of interviewing has shown me that I was severely underpaid (15-20% under the market rate – I knew I was underpaid but not quite so much) and overworked in terms of work load (the new job would cut in half my # of projects – again, I knew I was overworked but not quite so much). I really don’t want to leave with a bad impression, and I have other reasons for leaving outside of workload and compensation, so those reasons don’t even really need to come up if I don’t want them to.

  97. Jennifer*

    Today’s update:
    We got to take something off of our giant pile several months ago because we found out we were duplicating the work another office had been doing. Then the other office started whining that it was “too hard” and could we take it back. My boss said no. Apparently then the other office went over my old boss’s head over the summer and got the Big Boss to say “of course we’ll take it back! Anything to please you!” and then he proceeded not to mention that to any of us stuck with the workload. Naturally, we found this out now, three days before the thing is due. When most of the office is out at some point during the next three days. Oh, and we had a fuse blow out that took out half the computers. Every day is Disaster Junction around here. Old boss is super ticked off and Big Boss made sure not to come in here until old boss was out for the day. Ahem.

    Also, the coworker from the other week who ripped me a new one about (a) she hates my voice, (b) I ruin the entire climate of the office by getting upset…. has been getting upset and being a little storm cloud of cranky herself of late several times this week, including crying. I just want to say “see, it happens to everybody here,” but since I tick her off, I kept my mouth shut. Especially since she literally ran out to tattle on me after someone called me to ask me something I didn’t know the answer to. I told the vendor I’ve only been doing this for a month and this is the first time I’ve run into this situation before–and apparently that is bad too. I literally just can’t speak here. New Boss was super nice about it, mind you, but…just arggggggggggh.

    1. catsAreCool*

      Someone who tells you she hates your voice sounds like someone who’s a mess and doesn’t like herself very much either.

      When you don’t know the answer to something, it’s usually OK to say “I don’t know, but I’ll find out.” as long as you do find out and let the person know the answer.

  98. AnonasaurusRex*

    Our company has decided to move to a PTO plan that accrues hours based on hours worked. This seems good for me since I’m not quite full time (I work 32 hours a week). So the occasions where I do work 40 hours, I accrue more vacation time. But, they have decided not to let us accrue on PTO time. So if I work 2 days and then take 2 PTO days the amount I accrue that week is notably less than other weeks. Also we won’t accrue on days the office is closed (we close for most major holidays, a couple federal holidays, plus day after Thanksgiving, etc.). We generally use PTO time to get paid for those hours, but it’s personal choice. Some choose to take it unpaid.

    Is this the norm? Do other places with this type of plan accrue on PTO time?

    1. Pwyll*

      That seems normal to me. In my experience, you only accrue for hours actually worked, not leave hours or holiday hours.

    2. Red Reader*

      If you accrue based on hours worked, then yeah, it makes sense that you would accrue on hours *worked*.

    3. BRR*

      I’ve always had PTO accrue at a set rate. I’d calculate if you’re gaining or losing PTO overall.

    4. zora*

      Yes, this is normal, this is how my workplaces have all done it.

      One thing, though, if you usually work less than 40 hours per week, that might give you an opening to ask for a higher PTO accrual, so that you can accrue the same amount per year as other employees. In many places I’ve worked, PTO is the most flexible benefit, that many employees had more than others for a variety of reasons.

  99. Suomynona*

    Sanity check please. It’s annual appraisal season at work, with appraisals for my department being done by the department manager over the course of a month. I had mine this week, and among other things we talked about a New Thing that my team is doing. I said I didn’t think New Thing was working so well at the moment, and we talked a bit about what could be done to make it work better.

    A few hours after my appraisal meeting the department manager e-mails the entire team saying I’ve received some feedback that New Thing is not working so well and here are some ideas to improve it.
    The schedule for the individual appraisal meetings are posted where everyone can see the whens and the whos. In my team, only I and one other have had meetings so far, and the other had theirs several days earlier than me.

    I e-mailed the department manager telling him to maybe wait a bit with such communications until everyone in the team has had their appraisals, because the timing made it pretty obvious who the feedback was coming from. He replied saying he could theoretically have received that feedback from someone else outside of the appraisal meetings, so he didn’t think it was as obvious as I thought.

    Am I overreacting?

    1. Murphy*

      I agree that it easily could have been from outside of the appraisal, but I think maybe they should have waited until they got feedback from more than one person. (What if the next person thought NewThing was great? Or had an even better suggestion?) Or they could have actively sought out feedback from others outside of the appraisal process, but I’m assuming everything in that communication came from your discussion with the manager. I’d be a little miffed, but I wouldn’t assume that everyone knows that the feedback came exclusively from you.

  100. title thoughts*

    Any suggestions for coming up with a new job title? I am shifting supervisors at work and trying to negotiate a new title (and raise) and was asked to suggest a few for approval. Currently I’m an ‘associate’. My position is mostly research and project management (I could add the project management to the official title if that’s not too clunky). I also do some editing and writing drafts of things. I’m retaining some of my responsibilities in the switch, but gaining some new ones that are still getting determined. I want a title that shows I’m higher up, but also is not too over the top. Advice is welcome!

    1. jm*

      Higher-up roles in my org are as follows: Specialist, Supervisor, Director, Executive Director. Maybe specialist might be right for you — if you don’t supervise staff? Specialist denotes expertise in an area but without supervisory responsibilities.

    2. KatieKate*

      I’ve gone from associate to senior associate and associate to manager, depending on the company.

    4. H.C.*

      Senior associate would the easiest route, but given your duties you can be a Project Manager or Project Analyst too. But honestly, the best route is probably doing some industrywide research and see what others with your duties are called. That way, others looking at your resume/biz card/LinkedIn/etc. will have a better idea of what you do based on your title too.

  101. Mockingjay*

    New Job just offered me the lead tech writer position on a brand new program! I love this company!

    I would have never found a company truly compatible with my experience and work culture needs without following Alison’s interview practices and advice from the AAM family. Thank you all. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

    1. fposte*

      Yay! I thought of you when reading the upthread plaint about somebody tasked with taking minutes. You are proof there is a way out.

  102. Lolly Scrambler*

    I’m looking to transition out of libraries into something with more of a future and UX keeps being suggested to me as something that values librarian skills/degrees. Has anyone managed to successfully transition from libraries to UX? Was it a good mix and how did you make the change?

    2. Saturnalia*

      I can’t answer your question directly, but I work with a lot of UX folks and was briefly in our UX org in a more research oriented capacity.

      I really love the variety of backgrounds in UX in general. I know of psychology, anthropology, music, computer science, graphic design, literature majors and a lot of degree-less people too. So library background will not stand out in a bad way! Especially if you understand information architecture, you can find a niche that is highly valued in tech UX.

      Aside from IA, the UX skill set has lots of other facets: graphic design, interaction design, customer journey, copy writing, user research… more that I’m forgetting… It’s a rare candidate who is strong in all aspects, but if you are strong in one or two and passable (or teachable) in a few others, you have good chances.

      Basically, I think you’re well equipped to go for it, and it’s probably a matter of rewording your resume to focus on the the more UX specific achievements. Good luck!!

      1. Lolly Scrambler*

        Thanks Saturnalia! I have a couple of those skills and I can try to focus on it like you suggested.

  103. Frankie Seeks Job but is now worried*

    Okay guys, slight bad news, and was wondering if I had just hurt my job application chances…
    In a job application I submitted a while back, I left out my current job (only been in there 2 months). The resume only notes my previous company (the termination date is accurate though).
    Now, the company reached out to me and offered an interview. I of course accepted, but I decided to also send them back a corrected application now reflecting my current job. I am horrible at lying in the best of times, but trying to keep up the pretense during an interview? Mission Impossible.
    Would the fact that I left out my current job in a previous application hurt my chances though?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I think you’re probably overthinking it. You weren’t lying when you didn’t include your most recent two-month only job, because resumes are marketing document, not comprehensive work auto-biographies. And following up with an updated resume isn’t particularly weird either since situations change. Relax and kick that interview’s butt!

      1. Frankie Seeks Job*

        Aw man, thanks MegaMoose. True, the best thing I could do is to stop thinking myself into anxiety, and try my best to prepare for the interview!

  104. Thumper*

    Two things:

    1. I’m finding myself in the worst kind of cycle. I’m trying to move to the city nearest me, and most apartment openings (including renters subletting an extra room) need a recent paycheck before you apply. Okay, that’s fair. So I’m trying to secure a job in the city and then AirBnB it until I can move into a permanent place. BUT, I’m finding so many job openings that flat out say they want someone with a local address only! I can’t get an apartment without a job, and I can’t get a job without an apartment. Doesn’t help that my current job is seasonal so technically I’m laid off now (after only working for 6 weeks, but that’s another rant for another day) so I can’t just use those. I will gladly take any advice from people who have made a big move like this by themselves (another roadblock, unfortunately – I was originally moving with a friend but they had to back out at the last minute due to unforeseen circumstances).

    2. I just found a job opening that’s written in a style that it lists a bunch of facts and ending with “does this sound like you? apply now!” Most of them are normal things (love media, data nerd) but the first one on the list is “Google is my b*tch”. I just thought that was worth sharing on here because I’ve been staring at it in disbelief for the past 5 minutes.

    1. Dawn*

      #2 oh. my. god. Like oh my god do they not understand the origins of that phrase? The misogynistic tones of that phrase? ohhhhh my god.

    2. Joshua Soccer*

      You might want to try getting a personal PO Box address at a local post office. That’ll give you the city, state zip code that they’re looking for. If the employer asks why, you can say you do live locally but find it easier to have your mail go to the post office. My parents had a PO Box for a year when they moved within the same town just because they didn’t want to have to deal with updating addresses super fast on the day they moved. And what can mask it even more is I understand the post office can let you use the post office’s address with the PO Box number as the unit number, so the employer might just think you live in an apartment.

      1. Champagne_Dreams*

        Actually, get a box at a UPS Store. You can call that box number a “suite” or an “apartment” and it will still receive your mail. Post Office boxes require that you use that “PO Box” phrase.

        As an added bonus. the UPS Store will also receive all your packages for you from any carrier (UPS, FedEx, USPS, personal courier) and keep them safe and secure behind the counter until you pick them up.

    3. Intrepid*

      Do you know anyone in the city you want to move to? They might let you use their address on your applications and resume– my friends did that for me when I was switching cities.

    4. Toodie*

      I just had to Google the phrase from #2. Apparently that is a pretty popular phrase to use for SEM jobs. Wow.

    5. zora*

      Yikes, I can’t believe even for sublets you are being asked for a paystub! That’s kind of crazy to me.

      I moved to a high-demand city several years ago, and I was able to find a 1-2 month sublet in a shared apartment, which is what I recommend to anyone moving to a new city. It was much better to find a longterm apartment while I was actually on the ground and could learn the area and neighborhoods better before making a decision. But I didn’t have to provide proof of anything to get the sublet! I was able to prepay the first month before I arrived, however, would any of the people let you do that?

      Other than that, I would definitely second getting a mailbox from a UPS Store, but I can’t remember if I had to do that in person or not. Good luck!

  105. AvonLady Barksdale*

    I just got back from a great interview. I hadn’t heard from this guy for over two weeks since an initial, informal lunch… then he asked me to come in for a formal interview. He also set up a time for me to give a presentation to his team next week. He has been so straightforward (“Let’s meet for an hour”/”You’ll be with us for two hours”) and great, and I think today went very well. I did ask him what his reservations are about me, and he said that he’s definitely concerned because my career has been in teapots and his industry is coffee pots, but he does recognize that I’m intellectually curious (!) and he doesn’t expect any person to be entirely trained and independent for at least 12 months. I left with such a good impression of him and the company… Please wish me luck and send good vibes so I don’t screw up the presentation!

  106. Catabouda*

    I’ve just found out I’m going to be supervising a former peer.

    She’s not a great employee and I believe she’ll have a serious attitude about this change.

    I’ve been digging through the old posts to find advice on this sort of situation. However, if any of you remember a thread or question that might apply, I would so very much appreciate if you could add some links to this thread.

      1. Catabouda*

        I know I’m supposed to get this joke but don’t….

        Either way in case it is confusing to others – we currently are the same level employee. I’m getting a promotion.

  107. Maple*

    I’m in sort of a weird job search situation. Currently I’m working part-time. I really respect the organization and love, love, love about 30% of what I do, but unfortunately the other 70% is not great and I need full time work. That’s all fine and normal. Also, I’m 2 months pregnant, and also, I am moving at the end of next summer.

    I know that job searches can take months, so I am keeping my current job, but I worry that no one will want to hire a pregnant woman (once I start showing), and certainly no one wants to hire someone who will only be there <8 months. It would be dishonest to pretend I don't know I'm moving, but being upfront would probably cost me any chance of being hired. I really need more income than I'm getting part-time. Rumor has it that babies and moving are both expensive. (My husband is employed, but also not a high earner. We're moving for his work.)

    1. Catabouda*

      Sign on with a temp agency?

      Employers who are looking for FT temps won’t care as much that you are pregnant or moving.

        1. Natalie*

          You’re not limited to one agency, sign up with any in your city that do placement for whatever your field is.

        2. zora*

          yes, sign up with multiple agencies. And ask around, I’ve found the best agencies by recommendations both from employees and employers who have hired through agencies.

        3. orchidsandtea*

          Look up the ones that advertise themselves as premium staffing agencies, etc. They often work with law offices and finance offices that sometimes pay a bit better.

          I’ve been working with Robert Half and have had a positive experience.

  108. Venus Supreme*

    Advice on feeling like the the odd one out at work?

    I work in arts admin (Been at NewJob for 6 months) and I’m starting to recognize the cliques, and I’ve noticed that professional borders are often blurred (which I feel like happens when you work in the arts). I’m normally outgoing and I haven’t had a problem saying hi to everyone, engaging in conversation, and joining a group at lunch… but I’ve noticed if someone else is initiating, say, going out for lunch or grabbing a coffee I’m not invited. Sometimes I’ll say something and sometimes I’ll ignore it and vent at home.

    Everyone at this place has been here for 3+ years, and a few have even been roommates and/or dated each other. So I know these close bonds have developed over the years. And I’m hoping that this will get easier with time?

    1. Applesauced*

      YES! I’ve been here almost a year and while everyone is nice, I haven’t clicked with anyone in particular. It sucks feeling lonely at work…
      If you want advice – You might need to start initiating things yourself, it seems hard, but start small. Try asking someone you’re interested in getting to know to grab coffee.
      Or, just be there…. if it’s a larger group it’s easier to say “I heard you guys are trying the new Cuban place – I heard it’s great, do you mind if I join?”

    2. ScarletInTheLibrary*

      Took me 18 months to feel like I fit in. I think part of it was that there is a high turnover in our system. No one wanted to invest time in the new kid. The thing that helped is that I had more opportunities to run into my coworkers and connect over time. The nice thing is that many of us that have started in the last five years remember that feeling, slowly we have been more inclusive toward newbies. I am now informed of happy hours and trivia nights, because I have made appearances. Sure I am still left out here and there (with social things, professional silos are another issue), but it’s less often.

  109. Roberto*

    Friends! I just received an offer I’m excited about. Numbers weren’t discussed because HR is still processing it so it was more of a headsup. Here’s my question: what can HR find out using my SSN? My present annual income is significantly higher than last year’s so I’m concerned they might see only up to last year’s tax returns and make a lower offer based on that. Also, as I’ve worked freelance for several clients, will they show up as legitimate employers? Does HR or an employer try to find out if I have actually worked for these people as a freelancer?

    Any help would be much appreciated!!!

    1. De Minimis*

      I don’t think they can do much with your SSN. They can’t access your tax returns [unless your new employer is the IRS, and even then they’d just want to see if you were in compliance.]

      1. Roberto*

        De Minimis – thanks for your response. It’s good to know they can’t access tax income through SSN.

        Does anyone know – then what do they find out during “HR processing”. I did use a nickname on my application but don’t think that changes anything. Will they somehow try to contact freelance clients to find out if I actually worked for them? Do they have some way of finding that out anyway? Anything else they’ll be looking to ascertain? I’m assuming they use this info to calibrate what they should offer me (they have a pretty well-documented process of what causes an offer to be at one tier or another – external equity etc.).

    2. Pwyll*

      Have you signed anything? Generally, an in-depth salary or employment background check through a third-party service that scours records requires you to give consent in writing. Without that consent, they might call the companies on your resume and ask salary information (though I always hated people doing that), but I don’t think it’s terribly common for employers to run full employment checks through a service prior to the formal offer because of how expensive they can be. If they do call through your resume list, it’s really going to depend on what people tell them.

      There are sort of “clearinghouses” of information that sometimes have this as well. The Work Number is the big one. But even then, it only had my information from large corporations and nothing at all from the small businesses I worked for. And it would definitely not have independent contractor information.

      1. Roberto*

        Pwyll – that’s insightful.

        No, I have not signed anything. All I’ve received is a headsup that they are processing it and have chosen me. They don’t even have my SSN or legal name. It does give me pause that they might call through my resume list because ideally I like giving people headsup and on some of these projects, the $ they paid me isn’t reflective of other ways in which I was compensated. This is a reputed institution offering the job, fyi.

        Do you think they will use any of that information in order to determine what to offer me? Like I said, their website does say they use things like external equity…

        1. Pwyll*

          In my experience, it’s not normal to do employment verification checks prior to your official offer, and filling out a form that contains the information that they’re verifying. The references you may have given? Sure. But calling up the employers on your resume before you’ve even given them any information? Not common.

          1. Roberto*

            And would you say it IS common to call up employers (beyond the three references they have already checked up on) after the offer or at any stage? Would they be verifying only that I was employed with them (as a freelancer in this case) or would they also ask for my salary with them? I guess the salary bit wouldn’t matter at that point ‘cos I will have already accepted the salary I hopefully want.

            1. Pwyll*

              When I did HR I would often receive verification calls for former employees that were not the reference calls. They generally wanted: their last title, dates of employment, final compensation, and “rehire” status. (Which is shorthand for, were they good or bad). It’s not uncommon for that to happen.

              It’s worth noting what the policy is of your former employers, too. Our policy was not to release salary information unless we had a written verification letter from the former employee, and most employers didn’t want to deal with that, so we were able to effectively not tell anyone salaries.

    3. Chaordic One*

      When I worked in HR we used Social Security Numbers to run criminal background checks applicants. I know that they can be used to run credit reports on applicants. If you employer uses E-Verify, they might use a social security card and your social security number to fill out your I-9 form and to verify proof of your eligibility to work in the U.S.

      We made our hires conditional on passing a criminal background check and being eligible to work in the U.S., but it was mostly a formality and we didn’t actually run them until after the person was hired. The background checks could be expensive, so we didn’t want to run one on someone who might not actually get hired.

      A handful of times, it turned out that applicants had been convicted of petty crimes. In one case a petty crime that was supp0sed to have been expunged from the applicant’s criminal record. A criminal record rarely resulted in someone not being hired, although there were several cases of people convicted of drunk driving who lost job offers because their specific job offers required them to drive and our auto insurance company would not cover them.

  110. ampersands*

    I applied for a job at the beginning of the week as an editor for the marketing team at a museum. I am pretty darn excited about this gig, but I realized a few hours after I sent in all of my application materials that one of the positions on my resume was out of place chronologically (the last instead of second to last). Deal-breaker, yes or no?

  111. curiousnewbie*

    So, I have an interesting situation. I am in a brand new role and I actually like it and I really like my boss. It’s so different than previous roles and the environment is so different (think private vs. public) that I am constantly blown away by all the back up and policies/procedures we have to protect the employee. Some of the people have confided to me that my boss isn’t as… affable/in our corner/fair as he seems… I honestly don’t see it. But I’m worried that I have rose colored glasses and it’s only been a year… so maybe I am just not seeing what they see (especially since they have been here way longer and have way more history than I do. I guess my question is.. should I be concerned about this? Should I be concerned that I’m not concerned? (does that make sense?) I won’t repeat anything but I’m worried that I can’t even see what see… does that make sense?

    1. NaoNao*

      In my experience, everyone perceives things differently, so I’d only listen to concrete examples. So if “Lucinda” is darkly hinting that “Marty” isn’t quite as in your corner as he seems, you could ask “Why do you say that?” nicely. If she explains that she was called out by a customer and Marty took the customer’s side, okay. But if she explains that she wasn’t able to take 3 hour lunches twice a week….okay, that’s something else.
      A year is plenty long enough to see toxic/scary culture. I try to adhere to the military maxim of “Worry about X when you get there.”
      If you haven’t encountered under-bus-throwing by now, it’s very likely (not impossible, but likely) that you won’t in the future.
      Just make sure that you’re getting good feedback and reviews from your boss, that you have good lines of communication open with HR and the “Grandboss” or other key figures, that you’re generally doing good, valuable work and you should be okay.

    2. Chaordic One*

      Yes, you should be concerned. It sounds like you’re still in the “honeymoon” phase of your current job. The real test comes after a couple of years or so after you’ve proved yourself and you deserve a promotion and/or larger than than adjusted-for-inflation raise.

      If you haven’t been thrown under the bus by then, that’s when your boss will either give you the promotion and/or raise you deserve or make excuses. If it is the latter, you either act like a sheep and take it, or you start pounding the pavement and start looking for more challenging opportunities. Glass Door reviews can sometimes be helpful.

      Always be working on a current resume and have an updated one ready to go.

  112. Idiot with an email account*

    So a colleague keeps copying our all team email address into discussions that would normally just be between a few people. Today I hit reply all not realising they had done this again and it was on an email where I sounded critical of my manager (and that on reflection I wish I hadn’t sent).

    I went to my manager before she could come to me and said I was really sorry if it had seemed like I was undermining her. She said yes she had felt that. I said I wasn’t going to make excuses, I understood it was poor judgment and it wouldn’t happen again.

    I now feel awful. I’m pretty new and worried I’ve screwed up a job that was otherwise going very well. She seemed to appreciate the apology and wasn’t lukewarm with me after but I feel bad.

    Please, please can someone reassure me that I at least handled my mistake well.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Everybody messes up. It’s what you do after messing up that really says something about you, and it sounds like you handled it just fine.

    4. neverjaunty*

      You handled it perfectly. You went to her proactively, you immediately recognized the problem, and told her it would not be repeated.

  113. Karo*

    We’re officially less than 4 weeks out from the new OT law – and my company still hasn’t proactively said a thing to me or to my friends who will be affected by it. I reached out to ask what the plan is, and all I got was “we’re still deciding.” Meanwhile this affects our health insurance (which we need to sign up for soon), our ATO, our livelihoods, but meh. Let’s wait until the last possible moment.

  114. Rat Racer*

    A few weeks ago, I posted here https://www.askamanager.org/2016/10/open-thread-october-21-22-2016.html#comment-1241109 about taking on responsibility for a loose affiliation of consultants who had no collective accountability. These consultants were my peers, and under this new org structure, they don’t report to me on paper, but the VP agreed that I would be the air traffic control and single point of contact for any new work that comes up in the department.

    The VP made the announcement this morning to the team, and then we had our weekly get together later in the day. And… it was really awkward and uncomfortable. As I expected, neither of these consultants is particularly thrilled by this change. Problem is that I’ve been fielding complaints about these consultants all year from leadership, and I think it’s because no one knows what they do, and there’s no one to give them any air cover when they say “sorry, I can’t do this, I’m bogged down in other projects.”

    So, the VP has my back, but the team is unhappy. I’ve never had to navigate a situation like this before, and I really wish I’d had some kind of manual to tell me “say this; don’t say that.” At the team meeting, I listened to their concerns, spoke to the reasons why this new structure is actually in everyone’s best interest, but there were some things that I could not say like “people are saying that you guys aren’t doing a good job, so I am volunteering to be your shield.” Or “Well, the VP said we’re going to do it this way, so I’m the boss now, and that’s that.”

    I can see that this is going to be a long and tough road, and I hope that I am not making a mistake by volunteering myself to take the lead on managing this team. I’m worried that I’m going to face massive resistance, which will prevent me from getting things done, and that I’ve ruined relationships in the process. I’m afraid that I have stuck my neck out and now I will fail.

    I guess only time will tell.

    1. catsAreCool*

      Why can’t you say “people are saying that you guys aren’t doing a good job, so I am volunteering to be your shield.” ?

      1. Rat Racer*

        That would be honest, but it seems like a bomb to throw at someone. Hearing that other people are saying you suck is a great recipe for paranoia: who is saying that?? why haven’t they come to me?? is it 10 people or just that one person with whom I’ve had some conflict this year? It’s cruel if you can’t deliver constructive, concrete examples – and fact is that I don’t have any. Manager A and Manager B complained to me that these consultants weren’t producing fast enough and that their work quality wasn’t up to snuff, but I’m not close enough to those projects to know the details, and since I don’t manage these consultants, it’s not really my place to dig in and solicit the consultants’ side of the story. And I’m sure they have their own side to tell.

        The issue is fundamentally structural: without “air cover” or management within the department, there’s no one to stand up for these consultants, or help them remove roadblocks that are preventing them from delivering on time. And there’s no one to give them feedback. That’s why I volunteered to step into this role. I still think it’s the right thing to do, but I also know that it’s going to be uncomfortable for all of us for a while, and in the real-time conversation, I just lacked a playbook of what to say and how to say it. Hopefully, I’ll learn from this and be better next time…

  115. Red*

    I have a co-worker who apparently doesn’t get ready for work at home, so she does so in the office she shares with me and 2 other people. This woman will put on her belt and deodorant and brush her (wet) hair in here. I’m in BEC mode with her for a variety of things, but I feel like this would be nuts even if I wasn’t. My other coworkers don’t seem bothered by it, but I am, and I’m not even sure how to handle it because I’m not her manager. I’m not sure what I’m looking for here besides a place to complain, but any advice is welcome.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      That is nut-balls. If it were the office bathroom, I’d say whatever no biggie. But a shared office? No way. How long has this been going on? Would it be weird at this point to ask her to please take care of that stuff in a restroom?

      1. Red*

        Probably a couple months, though it used to be only a couple times a week. This week, it was every day. Every single day. It would probably be weird at this point to ask her to do that, though I should have suggested it ages ago. It’s complicated by the fact that we don’t even have an actual bathroom on this floor, so going to one is a huge pain. I just feel like she should take 2 minutes and do this stuff at home, you know?

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Does she go to the gym on the way to work? I could see that, maybe. Sometimes locker rooms are crowded, or it makes sense to go to work, then get ready because 5 minutes means a 15 minute traffic difference or something.

      Even so, I don’t think it would be out of line to ask her to finish getting dressed and do her grooming in the office bathroom instead of your 4-person office. That’s just weird.

      1. Karo*

        Yeah, I was wondering if it was something like this. Or having to run to catch public transport and she’s been having a bad month.

      2. Red*

        Nope, she doesn’t go to the gym or take public transit! I’m the only one in the department that does.

    3. Yeah right*

      We recently had a new employee (50yr old woman), first day on the job, comes back from her lunch break, stands in middle of our open office, lifts up her top and sprays deodorant on her pits! WTF?! I was gobsmacked! I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. All the other employees just looked at eachother in shock. She did this again the second day and when no-one said anything to her, I joked that “perhaps we forgot to say where the bathroom was”… She just laughed it off. She did it every day, at the same time straight after returning from lunch, for a week. Then she didn’t turn up the following Monday, citing the job was too stressful for her, she was in the foetal position in bed and unable to function, and she has to take a year off to recover…but that’s another story for another day.

  116. Monica*

    I am transgender and came out to my immediate co-workers this week. A week from Monday, I will be presenting as Monica full time. I’m nervous but excited! I’m lucky that everyone has been wonderful. Wish me luck!

  117. the spam queen*

    I manage an employee who keeps his keys on his pants (although they are not needed for our work) and constantly jangles as he walks around the office. I find it extremely distracting and disruptive, but I’m having a hard time deciding if I should mention it to him or not. On especially busy days, when he is moving around the office for most of the day, and the rest of us are focused on a specific deadline, it drives me batty. Am I being overly sensitive? Has anyone else had experience with a coworker like this? In my head, I compare it to someone purposefully putting on bells and dancing around the office every day. Because that’s what it feels like. Headphones and closed doors are a no go.

    1. fposte*

      It’s not putting on bells, though, because he needs to have the keys. I’m saying that not just to split hairs but also to encourage you to view this not as a needlessly provoking action but a reasonable thing to do that happens to be annoying.

      I think you can ask him if he can keep them in his pocket or rubber-band them so they don’t jingle if he’s genuinely got a job that’s moving around a lot, like roving IT guy or something (if it’s just when he walks to the bathroom, I’d let it go). But it’s asking him, not requiring him: “Bob, would you be willing to tie up your keys so they don’t jingle so much? They won’t let us have headphones, and on days like this when we’re on deadline, I need all the help focusing I can get.”

      1. fposte*

        Oh, sorry, I missed that you’re his manager. In that case you’re not asking a favor, and it’s a perfectly reasonable thing to require him to do. “Bob, the key noise is a problem; please put them in your pocket or band them together so they don’t jingle if you want to keep them with you.”

      2. the spam queen*

        You’re right, he’s not purposefully provoking like in my bells comment. I’ve tried to re-frame in my head like, maybe he’s really forgetful and otherwise he would lose his keys (I went through a phase in my life when I lost everything) or maybe he’s concerned about someone taking his keys (this has never happened in our office, but he’s had a rough upbringing, in which, it would be a reasonable fear). But after almost a year I’ve run out of functional rationalizations.

        Just asking him to remove or quiet the keys on particularly busy days is something I hadn’t thought of. That’s an in between solution that I don’t feel so icky asking him to implement. Thanks for the suggestion!

    2. MWKate*

      Um do we work at the same place because I am having a very similar issue with a coworker. Though this is one on a very, very long list of irritating and noisy things he does throughout the day.

      Since you’re his manager, and the keys are not needed for work, I think it’s entirely reasonable to ask that he either keep them in his desk or find a way to carry them that is less distracting. If it’s bothering you it is likely bothering others, and they may not fee they are in a position to say anything.

      1. the spam queen*

        I wish we worked at the same place! There are other things he does that annoy me (sniffing loudly like he’s gone on an all night coke binge), but the most annoying to me is performance. He’s also not performing at the level he needs to be and had a major disciplinary issue two weeks ago, so all of those things combined have perhaps made me more sensitive than normal to minor annoyances. Or maybe I just need a vacation. :) Thanks for commiserating!

    3. Lillian Styx*

      Uh oh, I’m a jangly key carrier. I do need the keys for work though. Also I like to think it helps prevent people from crashing into me around a corner…

    4. Not So NewReader*

      They do make little soft plastic jackets that go over the heads of keys and may make the keys quieter.
      You can get them at a hardware store where they cut keys. Usually they are used to color code the keys so you can quickly tell which key is which.
      They do wear out and you do have to replace them, but maybe this would help.

      I am sort of stealing this idea because they have things that cut the noise of dog tags. It looks like those key color coder things would work in a similar manner.

  118. Jamie P*

    I’m 19, working my first job. So far all the comments about me and my work performance have been good- hard worker, learns quickly, easy to work with, etc, but I have 3 questions that I’m not sure how to speak to my managers about.

    Since I started working 5 months ago, we have had 4 department managers. Our co-manager has never changed. We have been sorely understaffed in my department and they recently hired some people. We are supposed to have 2 people on each shift but if we do, 1 always get pulled for another department and then the 1 left either gets behind or has to rush to keep things stocked. Then co-managers or floor managers will get short and snippy with us and act like we are slacking but we aren’t. When you pull the 2nd person and only have 1 person we can only do so much. Is there a way to state that without a manager getting angry at us?

    Second, I worked with the assistant store manager last week and he complimented me on my work and said that he likes the way the department looks when I work. This week, we had our first ever (since I have been there) department meeting and they said we are now going to be timed on our tasks and we have 45 minutes per cart to put up stock and only 15 minutes to stock the dairy cooler. The issue with that is that they pack they carts so full of stock that there is no way we can put it up and check the expiration dates like we are supposed to. With the cooler, you have to stock not only regular milk, but all kinds of special milk and coffee creamer. With it being November, we have about 45 kinds of coffee creamer, which is stored in a different cooler and we are supposed to check the expiration dates on all of the those things. I just don’t think it’s realistic. Is there a way to tell them that without them thinking we don’t want to work?

    Also in that meeting, the new department manager said he is only going to be in the position for 6 months and he’ll be leaving and he’s only been the manager less than 2 weeks. Then the co-manager Donna spent all night watching us and saying things like “tick-tock, tick-tock, pick up the pace boys, you are taking too long” and she even said that in front of customers! Now I don’t know what to think. The asisstant store manager says I’m a good worker and my co-manager talks to us like we are slackers. It’s so confusing.

    Third, we have to do a thing called Pathways training. When I was hired, we did 2 full days of orientation/training, including a scavenger hunt all over the store and you had to have certain people sign off that you were in their area. It was horrible because you couldn’t find that person and it took forever. Anyway, now we are supposed to complete Pathways training in 6 months and we can only do 15 minutes a day and not during our lunch or breaks. The only thing is since we are always running short on people or getting pulled for other departments, we hardly ever get the chance to train. I just completed the first module and I don’t know how many more are left. You also have to get a manager to sign off when you complete a module and you can hardly ever find one. It’s like they have a secret hiding place. So do you think I’ll get in trouble if I don’t get all the training done, when we aren’t allowed to do it because we don’t have anyone to cover for 15 minutes? Technically, we really don’t need to cover because we are stocking but if we go do training, that’s when the managers come out of hiding. No one that was hired when I was has completed it yet.

    Thanks for any help or suggestions. I know that I need to move on but it’s my 1st job, I’ve only been there 5 months and it took my almost a year to get this 1. I know that I’ll need a good reference to get another job so I don’t want to make this people mad.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Ugh. This is retail. It’s pretty normal.

      “Here’s more work and let me take a person away from the task.”

      Okay let’s start with #3. Ask on a regular basis to go do your training. When they say no, be pleasant and go about what they are asking you to do. Later, when your training is not done you can say that you asked multiple times and there was never a good time to go.
      In all likelihood you will never complete your training and no one will care.

      Your comanager is probably at toxic boss. You might ask the assistant store manager for advice or maybe not. It’s not confusing. You probably are a good worker, your comanager probably is not a good worker. Unfortunately, she is also your boss.

      Timing tasks and expiration dates. This is also happening more and more in grocery stores. Basically,what will happen next is that people won’t check dates or they will spot check. Our country is in for a big shock, there is a lot of food sitting on the shelf that is expired because stores do not have time to check. Make sure that you pull at least a few expired things on a regular basis.

      And question 1, no, you will not be able to prevent people from getting snippy with you. Sorry to be blunt, but you can’t fix their snippiness no matter how hard you try. I would simply say, “Bob got pulled to do X over in Y. I am doing this alone and going as fast as I can.”

      If it took you a year to find this job, start looking now for your next one. Pretty much what you are seeing here is what it is. I’m sorry. Keep reading AAM and try to figure where you would like to go next.

  119. AGirlCalledFriday*

    I’m struggling a bit with my job. I always work overtime (but am salaried so I don’t get paid for it), I don’t get breaks – not even bathroom breaks unless I can find someone to take over for a few minutes and that’s not always possible. My lunch is about 15 minutes long. I’m exhausted and stressed, but because this is teaching there’s nothing I can do about it. I’m starting to suffer from migraines and I’m like a zombie after work. I’ve taught for 6 years…it’s not the teaching. I love the kids and I’m good at what I do. It’s just that every year more and more work is added. I have no assistance and I’m exhausted with having to do everything. I’m not able to do it all, in talking to my fellow teachers they are all feeling the same way – wanting to do everything as well as they can and being physically and emotionally unable to. We are all perfectionists and from what I can see, deliver high quality work, but this year even more work has been added and everyone is frustrated and exhausted with no end in sight.

    I’m just ranting I suppose. I am so upset because I think I need to get out of this field, and I thought I would always teach. To make things worse, I make so little I can’t even live on my own – even with experience and a graduate degree. I don’t even know what to do with my life after this. I just feel so lost. I’ve worked a lot of other jobs before getting a masters in ed and I’ve never felt like this. :(

    1. animaniactoo*

      Are you a public school teacher? Because I am fairly sure that every union negotiation includes rules in the contract about how many classes in a row a teacher can be scheduled, and if you are you should check your contract and start pushing back at the admin of your school. If teaching elementary (and therefore an all-day one class teacher), there should be clauses about coverage being scheduled for you to get that break. Do you know who the delegate and union reps in your school are?

    2. Chaordic One*

      While you might need to quit this particular job, don’t quit about teaching just yet. I would seriously consider looking for a different teaching gig. Not all school districts are bad, although you might need to move for a job that treats you better and that pays you closer to what you really deserve.

  120. Looking for jobs*

    I have started applying for jobs and recently came across this in an application: “What amount of annual compensation would you consider too low?” Does anyone else think this is insulting to ask? I didn’t even want to answer it, but it was a required question, so I just listed a number that’s on par with what I currently make. Still, it’s turned me off to the company a bit. I also had to take two personality-type tests that took about an hour to complete, all before even getting an interview! Should I be concerned about this employer?

      1. fposte*

        Forgot to add that two personality tests aren’t a sign of great hiring to me, though. It sounds like they’re trying to be all disrupt-y and are just doing things poorly.

    3. Murphy*

      It’s just a weird and not useful question…Like if you say $X0,000 is too low, can they offer you $X0,100 and expect that to be acceptable?

    4. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I would definitely be concerned about the wisdom of a hiring process that included a question like that and I’m not sure I’d proceed if I had to take two personality tests. If you get an interview, I’d proceed with caution.

    5. Joseph*

      I’d just list the current salary and be done with it. But then when the topic of salary actually comes up, I would have no hesitation to (politely!) mention that the compensation of X was your absolute floor and you think it’s more likely for it to be somewhere along the lines of Y.

    6. BRR*

      If it was worded exactly that way I would put $1. It’s not asking for the lowest amount you’d accept (which should never ever be asked) but just an amount that you would consider too low. They set themselves up for answers like that.

      And I would be concerned. I would be concerned with one personality-type test. Two is ridiculous. Good candidates can find jobs without jumping through hoops like that so I would be taking a look at the people they hire.

  121. HannahS*

    This is more of a rant, but I am SO SICK of being screwed over in the whole unpaid internship rigmarole (field changed to teapots, because obviously).
    1. I was bait-and-switched at a job interview this week for what looked like a job in teapot design, but is an unpaid internship. It’s a great opportunity, so I (somewhat resentfully) took it anyway.
    2. My interviewer offered me a few shifts a week teaching teapot-sculpting, so I agreed and gave notice for those days at my part-time job, and was immediately replaced.
    3. Surprise! The interviewer didn’t have the authority to offer me those shifts, so 2/3 were taken away and the pay was cut in HALF, putting it just slightly over minimum wage.
    4. The whole thing has given me a stomachache, I’m so mad. It’s not like just needed a warm body; they wanted someone with a degree and experience
    5. Unpaid internships are a load of bullsht…they keep entire classes out of the industry. Plus, this is a mid-sized firm! The entire design department, except the manager, is “volunteers.” Eight unpaid people in our early twenties, making nothing for 15 hours a week each.
    6. When people say, “But you get experience! Your work gets seen! They write reference letters!” I desperately want to ask they if they think I can offer a landlord those things instead of rent. No? Oh, ok, I guess I’ll be “working” for, like, 23 hours a week unpaid (because of course, I have another unpaid internship on right now), and trying to support myself with private gigs.

    TL;DR unpaid internships suck.

    1. Pwyll*

      Is this a non-profit? If it’s a for-profit company where the entire department is volunteers it is very likely not legal.

  122. rosenstock*

    maybe someone else will find this as funny as me – today my (bad/unprofessional/kinda crazy) boss called up a major bank’s customer service number and yelled at the rep because they had moved his favorite brick and mortar bank location… he kept barking, “put it back! put it back! you HAVE TO put it back”… of course i’m like, that poor, poor rep, but also, it was so hard not to laugh…

    3. Not So NewReader*

      My. What a reasonable request, surely they did this immediately!

      Did he learn anything from this experience? Oh. Wait. I know, next time yell louder.

  123. Mirth & Merry*

    Another long time lurker breaking out of the silence!
    So unfortunately this week I was laid off due to a large RIF at my company, but my employer has offered me my same position at our sister plant a couple states away. They will pay for relocation but I would be required to stay for two years or pay them back. I was beginning my job search anyway and I’m not exactly thrilled about the move, but it could potentially take a year to get another job in current city (small town, but I do want to stay here for awhile). So the question is, how big of a bridge would I be burning if I took the job, let them move me and bailed as soon as I found a good position back in my current city?

    This is my second job out of college, I would definitely need the references. Thanks everyone!

    1. Dawn*

      Uh… that would napalm that bridge. Like, scorched earth, napalm, fire and brimstone, salt the earth kinda burn that bridge. Reallllllly don’t do that.

      1. Mirth & Merry*

        Obviously I want to hear “of course, do it, they laid you off, you owe them nothing”, but do you really think it’s world ending terrible? The market is down, almost standstill and probably not going up anytime soon (again obviously I’m trying to justify this to myself). What would you think if it was just moving to a new company and it wasn’t working out? Or if the question was, my company is crashing and burning should I stay for 2 years or take this awesome job?

    2. Camellia*

      How much are they paying for the relocation and can you afford to pay that back if you quit before the two years are up? If you could pay them back, well, as we often say in this forum, stuff happens and you have to do what is best for you and the company just has to manage that. If you think you could not afford to pay them back (and they will make you sign a contract to that effect, at least all relos I know about did that) then you must either stay the two years and then search for another job, or deal with the legal issues of failing to do that.

      1. Mirth & Merry*

        yeah I could, obviously no one wants to spend extra money, but it’s a not like $10K so not panic inducing. I would only move for a good/great job so that sunk cost would be worth it in my mind.

        1. Camellia*

          Sounds like that might work for you then. My last relo was $15,000 with a one-year commitment so I was confident I could stick it out for that.

    3. BRR*

      It might depend on what you do and will definitely depend on how long you stay at the new location but I don’t think it’s a huge fire if any fire at all. If they said “sorry for the layoff we’ll pay for your move no strings attached” then my advice might be different.

    4. Lab Monkey*

      If you were considering leaving anyway, why let them move you away from where you want to be located for a job you don’t really want? Moving is $$, and you’re going to pay both ways.

  124. JustTeaForMeThanks*

    I have a job! I’m so excited!
    Finally, I have been looking for a job for a long time. I start on monday. The job seems really interesting, and I have already met with my colleagues for two days at a company event where I was invited to. Everything seems to be going great! :D

  125. Crylo Ren*

    Question on “managing up”. How do you push back on OMG URGENT requests (that probably aren’t that urgent) without seeming like a difficult employee or “not a team player”?

    As a team of one in my company, I have a really full plate. I also get requests from a variety of teams to get A Thing done ASAP, but I don’t have a true manager who can help me triage the requests appropriately so I often have to make last-minute decisions on my own. (I do report to someone on paper, but she’s 3-4 levels above me and doesn’t have the bandwidth to help me with the many random requests we get. Not faulting her, she does what she can.)

    Are there other strategies to figuring out the true business need for getting things done ASAP? I’ve tried asking exactly that, but I often get answers like “well, [Employee I don’t know but who is apparently A Big Deal] wants it done” or “this is a really important initiative!”…aka pretty vague answers that don’t help me determine the actual need.

    Are there other questions I can ask? Should I just be stern and tell people a timeline and that I can’t budge on it? I don’t want to seem inflexible, but I also don’t want to be a pushover and let people think that they can just hand me things at the last minute.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      That’s a very frustrating situation to be in, but the bottom line is that you can manage to do only what you can manage to do. If there are four simultaneous “OMG URGENT requests,” they are all equally urgent, which means none of them is urgent.

      I think you should just lay out for the person requesting that you acknowledge how important it is, and you’ll get to it as soon as you can. Then use your own best judgment to prioritize what you work on first.

      1. Dawn*

        Yeah there’s a point where if people aren’t/won’t give you deadlines for things, then you are like “OK well it’s going at the end of my queue, I’ll have it back to you in three days” and if they freak out about that it is absolutely not your problem.

        If you do have four things that have the same deadline and you can only get to three of them, then you triage according to who asked you first *unless* it’s something crazy like “The CEO is stuck in Greenland and his plane just caught on fire and unless you macro these Excel spreadsheets he’s going to get eaten by a polar bear!!!” or whatever.

        Basically, force people to give you deadlines, and force people to not wait till the last minute to ask you something. If there’s consequences for them not being pro-active asking for your time, then they’ll eventually shape up.

    2. Rincat*

      My boss used to do this to me, where he considered everything priority. So I started making him choose between things. When I asked him, “What do you consider priority/urgent?” I would get the vague answers, but when I framed it as “I can do X or I can do Y, but not both – which one do you want first?” that would force him to choose. I would then make a note of that somewhere so I could remind him if he changed his mind later or asked about it. Often he did come to me and say, “How’s Y coming?” when he chose X, so I’d remind him of that, and ask, “Do you want me to switch to Y now? That means X won’t get done until I’m finished with Y.” Again, forcing him to choose.

      I know Alison has mentioned this strategy before on here and has some good articles about it. I just found with my bosses, I couldn’t ask them open ended questions AT ALL.

      1. Crylo Ren*

        That’s a good one. I think the main issue for me is that I get requests from a bunch of different, independent teams (think Chocolate Teapot Designers vs. Sugar Cube Distribution) and so the need to figure out which one is more priority/urgent falls on me, because I know my own workload, but the requestors themselves are largely unaware of what the other teams are doing.

        In prior roles I’ve asked the requestors to talk it out with the other requestor but I can’t always trust them to do that in time. But this is a good strategy for similar requests from the same team (it’s usually only one or two teams that do this to me, anyway).

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          I don’t think you need to give them all the details (“Here are the four things on my plate, and yours is third place right now”), but you can still provide some context. “I realize how important this is, so I’m going to make it my top priority right after I finish important assignment from Chocolate Teapot Designers’ team.”

          If they then have a beef with Chocolate Teapot Designers, they can have the Sugar Cube Distribution team talk to the Chocolate Teapot Designers team. Not your problem.

    3. Elisabeth*

      What I have found is that sometimes those people are under pressure from Big Deal Person to get an answer – ANY answer. If you respond “the earliest I can get it done is [tomorrow at 5 PM]” do you get further pushback? I wonder if it’s useful to stand your ground, give firm answers on what you can accomplish, and then if it really is of urgency, Big Deal Person can talk to Your Manager. I’ve seen this played out out where we’ve been under pressure to deliver something unrealistic and the (rare) times we’ve pushed back, I’ve been surprised that the person has said, “Okay, I’ll let them know!” Sometimes they need to feel as though they’ve tried their best and that might mean bullying you a little. Boundaries are so important, especially since you are a team of one!

      1. Mints*

        So true:
        Sometimes they need to feel as though they’ve tried their best and that might mean bullying you a little.

        When I worked construction I would have customers tell me things were OMG URGENT all the time just because that’s how they always talked to people. Like “The paint doesn’t match I need it repainted immediately!” and my strategy was just to sound like I was agreeing and give them later dates: “Yeah definitely. The soonest we can have somebody out is Thursday, does that work?”
        “I need you guys here ASAP”
        “Sure I understand. How does Thursday sound?”
        “Alright if that’s the best you can do.
        “Great, see you Thursday!”

        (Flipside was people who were really nice and unrushed during actual emergencies. “Hi how’s it going? So it looks like my power is out. When can you have someone here?” I loved these people and actually gave them extras)

    4. General Ginger*

      I’m in a similar boat at work, and when I am dealing with work requests from other teams, I usually say upfront, “I’m working on thing A and B, I should be able to get this done before moving on to D, so you can expect it by day Z.” I specifically mention the other projects (in order of priority and where this one is going to fall in that order, if at all possible), because that way the expectations are clear, and if this particular requester needs to have their work bumped up in the order, they know who to talk to. I had originally just gone with “OK, I’ll get this done by day Z”, but that often resulted in “But this is URGENT, don’t you get it?” type of response.

      When multiple projects that are all URGENT come from Boss, I do frame it as more of a request for guidance. Something like, “Well, I also have things X and Y, which would you like me to prioritize, this new one, or one of those?”

    5. animaniactoo*

      My team pretty much works in exactly this kind of environment. We do have a boss who will help us prioritize, BUT because she’s always shared her reasoning with us, it’s given us a framework for figuring it out ourselves.

      #1) She’s managed to pretty much train the whole company. If you don’t give me a due date – you will never get your item. Because we won’t work on it until after everything with a due date attached to it is done.

      #2) When things are getting superbusy, the question to ask is “What’s your drop-dead date on this?” The drop dead date being the last possible moment they can get it and still make whatever they’re doing work. Having their drop dead date gives you the ability to say (to yourself) “hmmmm… this will take a couple of hours, I can fit it before the job that will take a day and a half and not significantly affect that” or “okay, this can wait until I finish the other 3 jobs”.

    6. NW Mossy*

      I manage a team in similar circumstances – lots of rush requests coming from all over the business, so it’s hard for any one requester to see that their rush looks no different than the 15 other rushes we got this week.

      In addition to the advice about asking for the requester’s deadlines/dependencies, one other tack I take is to ask “What will happen if this isn’t done by [date]?” The response to that helps me a lot, because I can then assess how that lines up to organizational priorities. Answers like “We need this to fix a screw-up and keep from losing a client” and “We’ll end up in legal hot water if we don’t do this” rise to the top of the list, while reasons that are factually incorrect or don’t make sense fall to the bottom.

    7. BRR*

      Ugh this sucks. I’m in a similar situation. Ask for more context. “Jane wants it done” is not enough context. You won’t get far asking for them to basically say their request is low priority. So you’re going to have to keep prying to get additional information. Also if you have other requests that they won’t know about feel free to use that. I have an urgent request I’m working on, I need to know more about what this is for so I can prioritize. I sometimes just assign deadlines too. I respond “I’ll add it to my queue and can finish it by next friday.” For the people that give me requests, they can’t prioritize my workload.

      Also if they are asking last minute and knew about it for a long time, tell people every time you need as much notice as possible.

  126. Meeeeeeeeeeee*

    My company is going through a reorganization and I don’t like it. All we know is that departments are being shuffled around but we don’t know what it means in practical terms for any individual job. But rumors indicate my department may be entirely split up, and demotions may happen, or potentially even job loss. I am not someone who deals with uncertainty well so I’m struggling to stay zen about it all! Any tips?

    1. Rincat*

      I’m sorry, that can be so stressful! I would just say get things in writing about your job. Ask lots and lots of questions. Even if your job seems to be unaffected, ask your boss to recap everything in an email.

    2. Natalie*

      This might not fly in your office, but in mine I can just say “Nope!” a la Lana Kane and walk away.

      5 more days. You can do this!

      1. Meeeeeeeeeeee*

        I think you meant to comment elsewhere… But saying Nope! and walking away sounds tempting anyway!

  127. Jane*

    Does anyone have advice or tips for how to avoid talking politics (mainly the presidential election) at work, without seeming sensitive, dismissive, or other? The election’s gotten tense and it’s affecting relationships at work, home, with family, and friends…and I’m not even vocal about my stance, it’s mainly those around me who are getting heated at the election.

    1. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

      My cousin’s husband tried to pull me into a political discussion and I continued to respond with “We’re not going to agree, so I’m not going to engage in this conversation with you.” It may not work in some situations seeing as how miffed he got that I wouldn’t get drawn in, but it’s always worth a shot to tell people that you simply don’t discuss politics.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Headphones, working from home, or just taking sick days. Ug. It can’t be over too soon.

    3. animaniactoo*

      Hunker down – it will all be over in a week.

      To avoid being drawn into anything, I would simply say “At this point, I doubt that discussing it will change anyone’s mind about who they are voting for and why, and I would prefer to talk about something else.”

    4. Pwyll*

      Can you find ways to be super busy? I find a well-placed, “Ugh, I’d love to chat but I have to get this TPS report out.” can be a good way of avoiding conversations.

    5. Mints*

      If you don’t mind outing yourself I just go “I like Hillary and you’re not going to convince me otherwise” or “I’ve heard it all and I’m still voting for her”
      Repeat ad nauseum while smiling and shrugging

    6. Joshua Soccer*

      I always just reply that I hope Evan McMullin wins Utah and makes the electoral college a tie (I’m not in Utah). Then they get puzzled looks on their face and ask who is he and what are you talking about? Then they ignore me cause they think I’m weird. But, that’s probably a little antisocial.

    7. zora*

      I deflect any implication of whether I’m for or against what they are saying. My go to is: “Omg, I can’t take the stress of thinking about the election right now, my head will explode. Can we change the subject? or [Insert subject change].”

      if it continues; “No, really, I just can’t even hear about it right now. I need to get back to the TPS report/I’m going to finish my book.”

      There’s no need to even engage, the upside of how crazy this year has been, is that it’s a really easy and credible excuse.

  128. Rincat*

    I’m job searching right now, and filled out an application for a database analyst at a local hospital – almost identical to what I do now. Right after submission, I receive an email to complete an assessment. Okay, I thought, no problem – however the assessment turned out to be like 15 pages long with tons of questions about my mental health! Things like, “Do you like to throw things when you get angry? Do you believe it’s okay to manipulate and use people just to get your way?” It was crazy. Then there were a bunch of questions about my experience doing retail work – which I’ve never done, and I didn’t see how it related to the position – things like taking inventory, processing customer returns, etc. Finally, the kicker was a set of questions asking me how I felt about the entire assessment, including if I felt it was fair, and gave me a chance to demonstrate my skills. I answered those questions as “no.” And then I got an immediate rejection upon submission.

    So definitely a bullet dodged, but I thought it was so weird! Has anyone else had to go through one of those assessments?

    1. fposte*

      Sounds like there was a personality test. I don’t think they’re generally used well, but they’re not unheard of.

    2. TootsNYC*

      Total aside: I *do* like to throw things when I’m angry. I got really pissed off at something stupid I did, or something that broke, the other day (at home), and I threw the thing I had in my hand and yelled about how mad I was. Then I went across the room to pick it up and throw it down again. And I yelled about how mad I was. And I picked it up and threw it again.

      It felt good! And I actually felt better. My husband was amused at me.

      I would never do that at work (it was a deliberate choice on my part; I wasn’t actually out of control), of course, and I wouldn’t have done it if my kids were at home and little. And I wasn’t throwing anything AT anybody, or yelling AT anybody.

      But it was enjoyably childish.

      1. Snazzy Hat*

        I’m a fan of throwing things that don’t travel far even when thrown at a high speed, like individual tissues or handfuls of leaves. I get to expel a *lot* of energy that way.

      2. Lady Bug*

        I always feel like I need more info on those questions. Do I throw things at work? No. Do I throw things when my QB throws 4 interceptions? HELL YES
        Do I manipulate coworkers? No. Do I bribe my dogs with biscuits. Yes.

    3. Snazzy Hat*

      I’ve only had to do long assessments when I’ve applied for jobs at drug stores, and I think a craft store, although not for the craft store at which I ended up working. I even had an interview for an office position at an elementary school and they didn’t ask how healthy I was mentally or if I liked kids.

      One thing I love about staffing agencies is the freedom to be candid and honest. I told my agent flat-out that I don’t work well in groups. A mere week passed between my interview with her and my interview with their client which ended in a job offer.

  129. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

    I was just notified that I’m being switched to non-exempt due to the new overtime law. I can’t say I’m surprised. There was no way I was going to get such a big raise by December 1st, but my boss did say she’s going to work on getting it changed back.

  130. Charlotte, not NC*

    Hitting BEC with a recently-relocated cubicle neighbor. I’m no fitness model, but if you wheeze just from sitting at a computer, FFS change your lifestyle instead of complaining about your health and weight!

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      This is one where I hope you’ll try to work on your compassion — because your coworker isn’t likely to stop wheezing, and because, frankly, her health is none of your business.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          Then that’s your beef, not his lifestyle or weight. Try to think of it as though he was interrupting you by with anything else (wanting to chat about sports all day, humming loudly, etc.).

          1. Emma*

            I didn’t read that as Charlotte complaining about his weight, but about his complaining about his weight. And you know what, as an obese person myself, I think that’s legit. If you’re constantly complaining about how out of shape you are, but you refuse to do anything about it, at some point I do lose sympathy – because whether you want to lose weight or not, at least stop constantly and pointlessly complaining about it.

            To use a non-weight example, I have a friendly acquaintance who’s like this with his heart disease. He complains incessantly about how his doctor doesn’t want him eating things like steak, usually while chowing down on one – which, fine, his prerogative; I’ve ignored medical advice before, for all sorts of reasons. But then he complains about how his health isn’t improving, and it’s like, dude, either give your doctor’s advice a whirl or acknowledge you’ve chosen to not do the things that will improve your health and shut up. I am entirely sympathetic to his illness, I firmly believe people have the right to take the risks they want to take even if it shortens their lifespan, and I think he’s an obnoxious whiner at this point who’s only happy if he’s complaining.

  131. Maxwell Edison*

    Freelancer milestone – I sent out an email to my clients letting them know I’d be raising my rates at the start of 2017 (first time I’ve raised the rates since hanging out my shingle at the start of 2015). I’m still on the low end of the cost spectrum so I don’t expect a lot of push-back, and I’m still keeping old rates for one or two people who were friends before they were clients.

  132. Great Expectations*

    My husband is interviewing for a specialized academic position about 2,500 miles away from where we currently live. They’re covering his travel expenses and have invited me to come along for the initial interview trip. I was not expecting to fly out to evaluate the area unless he had an offer in hand. While I’m really excited that they’re willing to cover my travel at this earlier stage in the process, this has raised two questions for me:

    1) I’m a bit thrown off as to what’s expected of a trailing spouse during the interview process. Any idea what the likelihood of me being expected to interact with the search committee and/or other staff?

    2) What advice to you have on how to figure out what the job market is like there? I have ~4 years of experience in higher education administration, so finding a job at the university could be a really good fit. Would it make sense to see if I can set up an informational interview with someone in the university, if so, any ideas who to target (i.e., HR or specific departments that look interesting)?

    1. fposte*

      Unless there are particularly unusual circumstances (deep isolation, deep religion) I’d be really surprised if they expected anything of you at this trip; I would think if they have any plans for you they’d be tours of the town. I think it would make sense for your husband to ask about 2)–“Since my wife is coming, is there somebody she might be able to meet with to discuss possible positions at the university?”

    2. Pwyll*

      I agree with fposte. In these scenarios I think the employer is trying to make sure the move is a great fit for your entire family, but I don’t think YOU’RE going to be getting interviewed. If anything, you may be invited to a meal with members of the search committee, but I wouldn’t anticipate being part of the process otherwise. And definitely agree with asking if there’s anyone they know for you to meet with while you’re in town, or even more generally interesting things to check out.

    3. CanadianKat*

      I was once a trailing spouse, when my (now ex-)boyfriend was looking for a tenure-track position. They flew us in and put us up at a nice downtown hotel for 2-3 days. I was invited to join my boyfriend for 2 meals: one with the department head (or something like that) and his wife (at a really really nice restaurant), and another with a group of 5-6 profs and their spouses (also good, but not quite as fancy).

      I don’t think they’ll be evaluating you. It’s just to make sure that you’ll be comfortable with your husband accepting a position there. So really, they are wooing you. Bring nice clothes, and other than that, just be yourself.

      Your husband may be able to ask them about #2 for you. I’m sure it’s a common question. Before that trip, my bf mentioned that I was applying to medical schools (this Uni’s school being one of them), and they (not related to medicine) offered to set me up to meet the dean of admissions (or some other bigwig). She was absolutely useless (also possibly annoyed with her colleagues from another department trying to “push” someone through, – though that’s not what I was looking for), but still – they tried.

      PS. My bf got the job, but I broke up with him shortly afterwards.

    4. Bob Barker*

      If your spouse is senior/tenured, then they’re inviting you out to woo you: they’ll offer tours of local schools if you have kids; try to sell you on cultural stuff/fun stuff if not; try to find out what makes you happy and entice you with that. Usually the heavy-duty wooing happens after the department has already decided they want your spouse (so, after the interview), but sometimes that decision is already made before the interviews happen at all (and this is truer the higher up the scale of power/fame you go).

      Where I work, the big concern for incoming faculty is housing costs, so having both spouses be there at the interview stage gives the HR/faculty planning people the chance to talk about housing programs/loans/etc., get an idea of what the area is like, and so forth. If I worked in Darkest Northern Alaska, I’m sure there would be other concerns (or hidden gems) they’d want to talk to you both about at once.

    5. BRR*

      1) Little to none. You may attend a meal or something

      2) Depending on the position he could ask about a job for you. It’s pretty common for academics. I don’t know at what stage it’s common to ask about it though. If you’re in higher ed admin I’d take into account how big the school is and if there are other universities in the area.

    6. Yup*

      Agree with all the above. Any interaction with the search committee and other faculty will be minimal, and strictly social. They are flying you out as a courtesy to evaluate the area and ensure you’d be happy there (and hence stay settle).

      They will likely set you up with a real estate agent to look at neighbourhoods – if not, ask for it, as it’s quite commonly done. And feel free to ask faculty you DO meet about the area, schools, etc. HR or another office may well talk to you about employment opportunities for yourself. But otherwise, take the time to explore!

    7. Great Expectations*

      Thank you all for the advice! You’ve alleviated a lot of my anxiety on what to expect :)

  133. Anon4this*

    My role I started in last year merged with another role in a different department with the intention that we would be 1:1 client facing (no job duties dropped off, but more have been added on). Well, a co-worker left the team in March and I was assigned as their back fill; assured just until June at the latest while they went through the hiring process. June interviews came around and leadership didn’t hire anyone because they deemed all candidates as “too green”. Shortly after, Teapot Maker went on a hiring freeze. I am now assigned 3 clients, while other members on my team are assigned 1 client.

    (I also applied for an open position on the team that would have been a promotion for me, but because I had expressed to my manager that my workload was becoming hard to keep up with; I was told I wouldn’t be qualified for the promotion)

    My job duties have been very overwhelming for months now. I wasn’t compensated any extra for this work.
    Without going into additional details/rants, In your opinion, is this like doing the job of 3 people? 2? Corporate America culture?

  134. BathroomWoes*

    This is along the same lines as the letter earlier this week…
    My office is currently moving and we’re in a temporary location for a bit. This new space has a single, gender-neutral bathroom for my department. I’m a female in a male dominated role and there are realistically 2 women who would be using this particular bathroom. The bathroom is like any other small, single person bathroom. With a small waste basket in the corner, and two females, I realized that my coworkers could all figure out when one of us is at that time of the month…
    I don’t really care about gender neutral bathrooms when it comes to which gender you identify more strongly with, but I find myself really wanting a female only bathroom right now! Am I over thinking this?

    1. Sparkly Librarian*

      Maybe…

      1) Do you think your coworkers will be digging through the trash? Can the wastebasket be swapped for one with a cover and foot pedal?

      2) Why does it matter if your coworkers know that you’re having your period? I know which of my coworkers pees on the seat, and that’s way worse than knowing (deducing by the trash contents) who’s menstruating.

      1. GigglyPuff*

        ^This
        Or when you’re doing your business and someone comes in and takes the stall right next to you, within a row of seven, to do their business.

        Seriously just wrap the trash in toilet paper or paper towels, or even put a piece of paper towel to cover it in the trash can.

      2. Lily Evans*

        I feel like 2 depends on how mature the coworkers are. Unfortunately, there are definitely men out there who would either make period jokes or complain about seeing “things” in the trash.

    3. Leena Wants Cake*

      If it makes you really uncomfortable, just drape a little toilet paper or a paper towel over the used products….or, tell yourself that (on the off chance anyone is looking) you are helping the world by normalizing a basic human process that females experience all the time.

      1. BathroomWoes*

        Thanks! I’ll use the paper towel trick. I don’t think periods themselves are gross or anything but normal. I guess my biggest fear is having another reason to be written off. Like an “oh, you’re just moody because it’s your time of the month” type stuff. Sometimes I’m just legitimately moody because people are dropping the ball.

    4. Jillociraptor*

      I think there’s a general tendency to imagine yourself in a much brighter spotlight than you are! Even if someone happened to notice the contents of the trash can, I find it hard to imagine anyone normal having any more of reaction than a passing, “huh.”

  135. Anon Accountant*

    This week I had 2 interviews! One was a phone screen with a recruiter staffing agency who complimented me on being upbeat and said my resume was impressive. Happy about that.

    Next was a hospital ibreally wanted to work for. That went badly. The night before my mom was in a bad mood and kept picking fights, I barely slept, and the next day she was complaining about us sharing the car and the commute. I was so upset and did poorly.

    We share a car and telecommuting generally doesn’t happen in my field and area. The positive note is I’m talking to my therapist this week to help navigate if this happens again. When I land a better paying job I’m moving out. Ugh

    2. Lolly Scrambler*

      I really hope you can get a better paying job and move out soon. Sound like your mother is sabotaging you but you aren’t going to let that happen. Strong arm emoji!

  136. SandrineSmiles (France)*

    I just wanted to give you news even if I haven’t found a job yet.

    I dyed my hair blue on August 18th and I’ve had two interviews since… two more next week. It’s mostly for retail stuff, but I’m quite happy about it.

    I’ve been feeling like a huge pile of crap for the past few months, but for some reason October changed it all. Some things cleared up, and I’m on an energy buzz. I managed to “rewrite” my resume, it doesn’t look as outdated as it used to. And I feel like everything is on the right track.

    So here’s to an optimistic month of November this time! wheeeeeeeee! Let’s cross fingers.

  137. Anon31*

    I encountered an unusual situation while applying for a job recently, and I guess I blew my chance at the interview. I’d love any feedback on what, if anything, I should’ve done differently in this situation.

    I applied to a job on LinkedIn via the one click apply button. Just a few minutes later, I received an email from someone at the company which came from an actual person’s address but sounded very automated. It asked me to reply with my salary requirement, three references, and the results of an online personality test in order to be considered to move forward.

    These requests before even having an initial phone screen seemed unusual, and I was 95% sure the response was automated in some way. I wasn’t thrilled at the idea of providing salary and references up front like that, so I didn’t reply, figuring they’d just exclude me from consideration at that point.

    A couple weeks later, I saw another job posting from the same company which was a better fit than the last one I applied to, so I decided to try one more time and apply. A few minutes later, I received a reply to the previous request (about the salary, references, etc.) asking if I was still interested.

    I was conflicted on what to do at this point because I felt like my new application was what triggered the response to this one, and I really wanted to be considered for the second position over the first.

    I replied and said:

    ” I am definitely interested, but was hesitant to provide references and salary information so early in the process. I usually provide those at a later interview stage.
    I noticed today your company posted an opening for X, and submitted my resume through LinkedIn. I think that position might be a better match for my background, as I have several years experience as X.
    Let me know your thoughts, I’d be happy to speak with you further.”

    They then said “The answers to those questions are a requirement for interview consideration. We wish you the best of luck as you pursue other endeavors.”

    At that point, I regretted it and did reply with my references, salary and personality test results. But they never replied to me again.

    Thoughts???

    1. rosenstock*

      i think this is quite normal, and i’ve personally encountered it a lot. but it can be normal and also weird and bad at the same time.

    2. fposte*

      I think it’s clear that they weren’t interested in negotiating the situation, so it’s up to you to decide whether or not you should have provided the information up front; some places would have responded to your message with more information, but if it’s a big pool they may just cut out people who don’t check all the boxes. The personality test is the real annoyance to me there, but I don’t think that’s enough to say that this place would have been a nightmare to work; they may just have stodgy gatekeeping.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Yeah, you’re learning something about the organization and what they think is important. Clearly bureaucratic processes matter a lot to them. So by sticking to your guns, you’re essentially ruling yourself out as a candidate.

        You really have to think about how you want to handle this in the future. Is it more important for you to get the job interview or to avoid these ridiculous hoops to jump through? If you see a job you’re like “Oh, I have to have a chance at this, even though they’re being ridiculous,” then play their game. Otherwise, keep doing what you did.

        1. fposte*

          And I would characterize these hoops as only mildly ridiculous; references are pretty standard, and salary expectations aren’t salary history but a reasonable piece of information that would rule a candidate in or out (though I’d hope that a salary range was also listed in the job posting). Personality tests are a big eyeroll, but it’s not as bad as asking for interview level job product at an early stage.

          1. Joseph*

            References in general are pretty standard, but asking for them upfront just seems really strange. Either they call before setting up even preliminary phone screens or not – and either way, it doesn’t seem very helpful:
            1.) If they don’t call immediately, then there’s literally no benefit to having them immediately rather than just waiting until after the preliminary phone screen.
            2.) They call immediately – which seems like a massive waste of time. If everybody submits three references and each phone call takes an average of 10 minutes (including the call, introducing yourself, introducing your reason for call, then some back-and-forth), you’re spending 30 minutes per candidate. That’s quite a bit of time to spend before even chatting with the candidate to see if he might be a fit!

            1. Anonymous Educator*

              Yeah, I’d say the only reasonable request would be the salary requirement… though, really, it’s far more reasonable for them to just post the range they are willing to pay!

            2. fposte*

              As discussed upthread, there are some places where references are a standard request with applications; I therefore don’t think it’s that meaningful that they did that.

              1. So Very Anonymous*

                I would find it weird if an application didn’t request reference contact information up front. Providing that information in the application is 100% normal for the fields I’ve worked in.

        2. Anon31*

          Ugh, yeah. The second position was a “have to have a chance at this” for me, whereas the first was a little too entry level for me to want to jump through their hoops. If I encountered this again, I’d probably just do what they said. The surprising thing is that this is a (seemingly) young and hip entertainment company so it just felt off that they were acting like that. Live and learn I suppose.

  138. Anonyby*

    So it looks like they’re FINALLY putting me on my company’s insurance, starting next year (enrollment is right now, though).

    This is the first time I’m actually having to figure out all this language on my own. Help? Pointers? Basically, I’ve gone from my parents’ insurance to uninsured, to state-funded medicaid, to uninsured. I’m way too old to be such a newb.

    1. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

      It might not hurt to set up an appointment with HR to go over your options before you enroll.

  139. I'd say go to hell, but I never want to see you again*

    Question on politely avoiding lunch with a coworker:

    I’ve been at my job for about six months. I have a coworker who started right at the same time as me. He asked if I wanted to get lunch with him, and I agreed, and we fell into the habit of getting lunch together every Friday, with one of us paying every other time.

    I didn’t realize it would be so regular and it began to strain my budget; at my previous job I virtually always brought lunch and never bought and was really proud of how much money I was saving doing that, and now that was going out the window. One day at lunch I mentioned to him I can’t afford to do it this often, and could we do it maybe once a month instead?

    He agreed, but then started asking if I wanted to eat our packed lunches outside on Fridays. Which we have been. We still go out to lunch once in awhile, sometimes more often than I’d like, and he pays a little more often now. Which is nice but I’m not comfortable with him doing that.

    Now, the weather is starting to get too cold to sit outside and he asked about eating inside, in one of the conference rooms. Our office doesn’t actually have a breakroom, and while there has been talk of turning one of the conference rooms into a breakroom it hasn’t happened yet. I feel uncomfortable and weird about eating in there, even if no meeting is scheduled. I’m not sure anyone else does this.

    But more to the point with money and the awkwardness aside, I just don’t want to sacrifice my Friday lunch every single week. I don’t know how to break the habit that’s now been going on for six months. I’d like to take lunch when it’s convenient for me, not at a specific agreed upon time. I often have errands I’d like to take care of during lunch, or I’d like to read and speak to no one – this should be *my* time to be alone. As a fellow introvert/bookworm I’m surprised he doesn’t realize this.

    I got out of lunch today by saying I was running an errand, but how do I thwart this happening on a regular basis? I wouldn’t mind doing lunch together once in a great while, but most definitely not every week.

    1. fposte*

      The easiest way is to ask for a new schedule. “Bob, I’m going to have to bail on weekly Fridays–I’m falling behind on my book-reading and people-ignoring duties and it’s making me cranky. I’d still like to have lunch with you and catch up, though–what about the last Friday of each month?”

  140. PegLeg*

    Hi! I have a second round interview next week. I have never had a job that requires more than one round of interviews so I’m not sure what to expect. The first round of questions was pretty similar to any interview I’ve ever had. Any advice of what to expect moving forward?

    1. I'd say go to hell, but I never want to see you again*

      Dress just as professionally as you did for the last interview. Don’t assume you’re a shoo-in or anything (not that you are, but worth mentioning).

      Be prepared to possibly answer the same questions you answered before, but to different people. Obviously you can’t say, Oh I already told Jane about my experience with X.

      If your first interview was really in depth, this one might be a bit more laid back. They might ask you less intense questions to get a better feel for your personality and your fit for the organization. If your first interview was pretty short and sweet, just going over your prior jobs or whatnot, then it might be the other way around.

      In short, be prepared for anything. Prepare again for this interview much like you did with the first one, going over the job description and how your experiences can apply to what’s needed for this job, thinking about commonly asked interview questions and what you’d say, etc.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq*

      The second round interviews I’ve done have gone in one of two totally different directions: first, there’s the “small meeting with the top boss” style that lasts about the length of a normal interview, and then there’s the “multiple interviews with half of the team” style that might take 2-4 hours. In either case, the questions are often very similar and you don’t really need to prepare any different than any other interview. If it’s the latter style and you’re not used to that kind of thing, you want to be careful not to get worn out – make sure to eat in advance no matter how not hungry you feel, always take water if they offer it, make sure you’re dressed as comfortable as you can (within interview confines of course – for me this usually means putting my hair back to combat the neck sweats), take or ask for a restroom break if you need it, and try not to get hung up when you find yourself repeating yourself.

    3. Comp Professional*

      Second rounds generally have two different flavors. 1) The same style of interview as the first round, but this time with additional stakeholders. 2) A more relaxed conversation to help judge cultural fit and learn more about the particular job or organization. Either way, it would be perfectly normal to ask the recruiter what you should expect from the second round.

  141. doctor strange anon*

    i’m late today, but i hope i can get some feedback on this.

    do any of you work in very emotionally demanding/draining jobs? and if so, how do you deal with it?

    backstory: i work with aboriginal students in canada. my work is very heavy and oftentimes very emotionally draining. every day i am confronted with the very real and negative problems aboriginal people in our country face. on top of that, there is the crushing realization that i’m using one of those tiny coffee spoons mcdonalds had in the 80s to try to dig up a mountain of systemic racism that is pervasive and ingrained in our culture for centuries.

    on top of that – i am an aboriginal person, but i am not a member of the same nations as the people i work with, and my life experience is vastly different to an absurd degree. i have experienced racism from other aboriginal people in my work place – i’ve been accused of lying about my race to get my job by my coworkers, told i wouldn’t be able to successfully do my job because of my race, and have been told i don’t deserve to have benefits others have because i’m not from here and therefore – not the “right” kind of aboriginal person. i’ve never had to face discrimination of this kind before before, and that, coupled with the heavy emotional work i end up doing has resulted in me becoming incredibly pessimistic about my job and the impact i make. i’m finding it harder and harder to truly care about my work, because i feel like i’m not really making a difference in the grand scheme of things. and there’s also the feeling of “why should i bother helping people who are just going to reject me?” which i realize isn’t a good way to think.

    aside from leaving this field entirely – is there anything that i can do to mitigate these feelings? i’ve been seeing a psychologist for months and it’s been helping – but i’m starting to wonder if i’m suffering from compassion fatigue or burn out, or if the way i feel is normal for people who work in jobs that end up putting them in an activist and advocate role.

    1. Temperance*

      It sounds like compassion fatigue to me. Your job sounds really terrible for you – people being racist and judging your qualifications because you are a member of a different nation is f’d up.

      I completely relate to “why should I bother helping people who are just going to reject me” although my feeling is that I don’t want to help people who aren’t even trying to help themselves. I work in legal services, and we tend to get a lot of requests for SSI. These aren’t fun cases. The clients are either actually able to work, don’t fit the program requirements due to drug abuse/alcohol abuse, or do fit the program and are really freaking difficult to deal with.

      So I avoid these if at all possible. Can you go to a different department?

    2. Moonsaults*

      I think that you may benefit from some kind of support group, even if it’s online based. Somewhere you can talk to others who are in the same boat.

      They tell us so much we have to be able to leave work at work but in these difficult jobs, you can’t, you’re going to carry it around every moment of the day. I’d also suggest therapy, for your own general well being.

      You do have to start by looking at something from a smaller perspective. No. You aren’t going to change the entire world but if you can connect with even a couple youth that you’re tasked with helping, you can save just two of them, you did yourself a great service to the world. Each teacher sees so many faces but there are going to be ones you truly can touch and change, even if the others are spitting in your face, someone in there needs you.

    3. Joanna*

      Wow! That sounds really tough.

      I can’t speak to the problem of being bullied but in the course of my work I do deal with emotionally draining situations. Our department deals with people who have recently had a family member pass away, something which is hard in itself but also often creates/exacerbates financial or family dramas.

      A few ideas:
      – Keep a record of times when you’ve got positive feedback or managed to solve a particularly difficult problem for someone. That way you have something to remind yourself of why your work matters when people are rude or ungrateful. Could also be useful when negotiating for raises and promotions.
      – Try not to get overwhelmed by issues of theirs you can do nothing about. I remind myself that while it’s important I act with sensitivity and empathy while interacting with customers, the most important thing I have to offer them isn’t big emotions about the entirety of their troubles. It’s to focus on accurately solving the very small portion of their issues that I’m responsible for addressing.
      – Be extra mindful of your physical health. If you’re tired, run down or not getting the nutrition you need, you’ll likely find you have less emotional energy to face the challenges of your job.

    4. New Bee*

      I do work that’s somewhat similar in the US, and compassion fatigue is real! Good on you for working with a psychologist.

      Could your office invest in anti-bias or trauma-centered practices training? It sounds like your coworkers are exhibiting a mix of lateral and internalized racism, which not only impacts you but the students you all work with (because those attitudes trickle down to low expectations and self-stereotyping).

  142. NW Mossy*

    I’m feeling warm and fuzzy towards my employer today, who just announced that they’re making some big changes to help our organization be more trans-inclusive. In addition to the small stuff like designating single-occupancy restrooms as all-gender and clarifying our policies to say that employees are also free to use the facilities for their gender identification, we’re also updating our medical insurance to cover gender-identity-related services. I’m so pleased that the company listened to employees and made it a priority to have a more positive environment for current and future trans employees.

  143. Lemon Zinger*

    Update on my situation with my difficult coworker! Last post was here: https://www.askamanager.org/2016/10/open-thread-october-28-29-2016.html#comment-1247708

    I emailed my boss with details about Jane’s behavior and how it’s negatively affecting both me and other coworkers. Boss emailed me back IMMEDIATELY to thank me for sharing my concerns, and asked to speak on the phone when I was out of the office and away from Jane. We talked for about 15 minutes the other day, and Boss validated my feelings and said she and another supervisor (not ours) are concerned about Jane as well. She expressed disappointment in Jane and said “When you started, you were so easy and on the other end of the spectrum. I’m not sure what we’ve done wrong with Jane.”

    Boss had planned to travel to our location today to meet with Jane in-person, but she had a family emergency, so I’m not sure when that will happen.

    Jane’s behavior is, of course, unchanged. She is remarkably confident and has expressed to several people that she feels that her training period is now over, because she is comfortable with every aspect of our role. This is very much NOT the case and she will not be put “into the rotation” until she’s mastered everything… and proved it to management, too.

    She has begun talking extensively (to anyone who will listen) about her desire to switch to a different location, which is more convenient to where she lives. I’ve told her several times that that will not happen; our role is where it is for many reasons. But she is eternally optimistic. Obviously her behavior needs a serious change, but I’m not sure how that will happen. Our boss is fairly non-confrontational, so I’m hopeful that she can put on her “Boss Cap” and manage the heck out of Jane.

    ——–

    In other news, I was informed today that I’ll be going on my first overnight business trip! I am so excited!

    1. AshK434*

      Thanks for the update! Hopefully your manager will help coach Jane to be a better employee.

      And yay to the business trip! I hope it goes swimmingly.

  144. CanadianKat*

    Annoyed that my co-workers have voted for a really expensive Christmas lunch. Not compulsory, obviously, but I would be a real spoil-sport if I decided not to show up. The employer can’t pay for it (government), so I’ll be forking out $35 for the meal (plus taxes and tips = at least $45), and then for a post-lunch activity. The whole thing would add up to probably about $60. (Thats Canadian $, which is still a lot.)

    It’s a “fixed-price menu”, so I can’t choose a cheaper option. I suppose I could just come for the activity, but I would have a hard time justifying it. Unless I invent a family emergency, but I’m not comfortable with lying.

    Claiming that it’s out of my budget would not be realistic either. I just don’t like spending that kind of money on a work activity that I didn’t choose. I don’t think I’ve ever spent anything close to that (per person) on any kind of entertainment, – if I did, it would be something of my own choosing, and with my family. My coworkers are nice, but I’m sure there are cheaper restaurants out there, especially since we’re doing that other activity. Last year we went to a pub, and everyone enjoyed it.

    Grrr. Would have been nice if the vote were between at least two options, rather than: “Is this Ok with you?”

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      Can you still reply with, “can we do this less expensive option instead?”
      I’d bet you’d get support for that.

      1. CanadianKat*

        After a bunch of people replied along the lines of “Looks good to me” (even saying for the manager of a few of them, who wasn’t here that day, that she’ll be fine with whatever the majority decide), the organizer walked into my office and said that I was the only one who didn’t reply (I didn’t know that, – some must have commented in person). She said jokingly that she was going to ask me what I thought, but since everybody else said yes, I would just have to go with it. So I told her that this is basically what I was going to email anyway.

        Don’t want to be a sh*t-stirrer (I’m not exactly the most popular person anyway, – not that I’ve done anything in the least bit “off”; I’m just a pretty quiet & private person). Just surprised that people are willing to spend that much on an office party.

        Worth noting also that the organizer is probably one of the highest-paid people in the group (excepting only the manager who didn’t get a chance to vote, and the boss of all of us – who wasn’t even included in the thread).

  145. anonymoushiker*

    I asked a few weeks ago about asking for a raise considering that my manager said we would re-visit this fall (after giving me a 4% raise at my annual) AND I’m going to be supervising someone. As it turns out, she’s been working with the HR AVP to bump me up a pay grade which is going to bump me at least $4k/year up, which is right around where I was going to ask anyways. Without me having to do anything. So while I continue to not have much negotiation/money ask practice, I think I’m ok with that for now. She also asked me if I wanted it retroactive farther back than this week but I don’t think it’s necessary-we’re still in mid-hiring stages for the position.

  146. kilendra*

    How long do pre-employment background checks usually take? I have a verbal offer from a company I’m really excited about, but they require a background check before giving a written offer. I filled out the background check form Wednesday night, so I know it’s a bit soon, but I really want this offer so I’m overthinking it.

    1. Jenbug*

      It depends on what all they are checking and how backlogged the various county/state/federal agencies are. There have been times when I’ve submitted a check and gotten it back within minutes when the person has no record. But there are times when it has taken three days for a clean check to come back. If there is anything on your background, that generally takes a little longer too. If you just filled out the form on Wednesday, it didn’t start processing until Thursday AM, so I’d say you’re probably looking at Monday or Tuesday.

      1. kilendra*

        Thank you! Seems very reasonable. I have some old internship employers that might be hard to track down but am otherwise very boring, so hopefully everything goes smoothly and I hear early next week.

    2. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

      My background check took nearly two weeks to come back. I started on a Monday and didn’t get notice that I passed the background check until the Thursday before.

    4. Champagne_Dreams*

      Ours runs on average 2-3 weeks, but it includes a drug test. If yours doesn’t, then probably shorter.

  147. Mints*

    Hi everyone!

    I have a question about job titles. I’ve started a new job about 2 months ago and long story I got hired for something I’m not really doing. What I am doing is pretty cool and I’ve been vocal about asking for more work aligned with my interests. Anyway

    My title is “Teapot Coordinator” which made sense when I was going to be working with the Teapot team but I barely am. Instead I’m doing a sort of weird combination of some very easy administrative tasks for everyone and some complicated analytical projects for an executive. I report directly to the executive. (Like bookkeeping and then special projects for the CFO.) The administrative stuff is maybe 25-50% of my time. The other projects vary. Some weeks it’s 50-75% and some weeks are painfully slow.

    I’m also getting paid more than a “Teapots Coordinator” usually makes, and way more than an Administrative Assistant. I have about five years general work experience and like half is more relevant. Something “Analyst” I think overstates my data skills, and “Manager” always feels weird without managing people. I can provide more details.

    What would be a good title?

    1. Mints*

      Oh also, I’m not planning to ask for a change right now. It’s just something I’d like to think about, and MAYBE bring it up during the reviews in April

    2. Pwyll*

      Is “coordinator” a special type of position at your workplace? Are there coordinators in other departments who make more or less than teapots coordinators? Could you change the first word to be more in line with your current work and still have that fit? “Finance & Research Coordinator” or whatever?

      1. Mints*

        There are other Coordinators; I’m not sure how much they make (The salary stuff I meant generally, from job hunting.) Operations Coordinator would probably be more accurate

      1. Mints*

        I really like “Operations Specialist” as something to aim for with a raise at some point. I should look into job postings for that. Thanks!

      3. Mints*

        To my surprise, Operations Specialists make less than Teapot Coordinators on average, according to the looking-up I’ve just done, and they seem pretty entry level. I thought that title meant more than it seems

  148. Kennedy*

    Feeling super-bummed today. I’ve been at my new job for a month and a week, and I think I’m doing OK. At first, my supervisor was in TX and didn’t actually have expertise in my job. It’s just that I was the first of my field on this team. So I didn’t get a lot of guidance and was the lone wolf to an extent. Recently someone else started who is my new boss who does have experienec in this field, sort of, and can be an actual supervisor and all. I’m content strategy, she’s digital marketing, but she’d oversee the content marketing portion of my job. So I’ve been working with her, showing her my work, etc. But I feel that I’m not doing the best work I can be because I’m letting myself feel really down about my personal life. My husband (of a month and TWO weeks) has been dealing with depression and OCD for awhile, and lately he hasn’t been doing well, so when he’s acting irrational and expressing distorted thoughts and saying sad things to me via text during the day, it’s really hard for me to focus and have energy and not cry at my desk. I’ve been told that I’m responsible for my own happiness and I can’t let his mood dictate mine. I have to find ways to be independently OK. But it’s really difficult. So I’m worried that the work I am showing her isn’t my best. Plus the last thing I’ve had to do, I’m not as good at it as other responsibilities in my job.

    1. fposte*

      Oh, wow. I think you really might find a counselor helpful right now, because your husband’s illness is putting a lot on you. Marriage and a new job are stressful changes even when they’re going well, and it’s really tough to throw in the struggles of somebody you love.

      In the meantime, can you at least separate them a little more by not checking your phone during the day? Your husband should not be subsisting on the ability to text you while you’re at work anyway, and it sure doesn’t help you to get poked with the home stress while you’re negotiating work.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I’m sorry, that sounds really rough. Can you talk to your husband and let him know that you can only respond to texts on your break, then turn off notifications? That might help a little bit, at least.

      1. animaniactoo*

        Depending on your phone’s setup you may be able to turn off notifications from him only, so you’d still be able to get the rest of your messages as normal.

    3. animaniactoo*

      This may sounds like an odd suggestion, but I would suggest seeing if you can attend an al-anon meeting. Different groups have different levels of acceptance for other people struggling with these kinds of boundary and keeping themselves from being enmeshed issues, but several do because although the root cause is different, it is the same struggle and lots of support can be found there.

      People living and/or regularly interacting with those who have addictions/mental disorders need just as much support as the people who are struggling need. Please look for the help you need to take care of you.

    4. Camellia*

      “I have to find ways to be independently OK.” I have long thought that, if one person in a family is being treated for depression, then both should, at a minimum, attend counseling (separately, not together), because this can affect the other partner deeply. Does your new job have an ERP that could help with this? If not, do you have a way to pursue it on your own?

      Also, “I’ve been told that I’m responsible for my own happiness and I can’t let his mood dictate mine. ” is just another way of being told “Just cheer up!” and is about as helpful. Ignore those who say this and, if possible, refrain from bashing them in the head. That will only make you feel better for a little bit. :)

    5. TootsNYC*

      Chiming in to agree with the idea of finding mental support for you.

      And definitely, no texts from him during the day–make that a priority. He needs to find a way to cope w/ his problems without you while you’re working.

      Good luck!

  149. InboxIngrid*

    Is there an Ask a Manager post about how to negotiate salary when you have two job offers on the table? I never thought it would happen to me (still in shock), but I’m expecting two offers next week and both companies have indicated I’ll need to move quickly with a response.

      1. InboxIngrid*

        They’re both close contenders, but the companies have vastly different cultures, size, industries, duties, and commutes! I’m extremely torn and unfortunately, I think pay will be a decisive factor.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          If that’s the case, I’d negotiate with each of them individually, as if the other offer didn’t exist. If you had a strong preference for A but B came in higher, you could go back to A and say “You’re my first choice and I really want to say yes, but I have another offer for $X; is there any way you could meet that?” But if you don’t have a strong preference, I wouldn’t do that — I’d just treat each as its own thing.

  150. Regina 2*

    What are some recommendations you have for assertiveness training? I’ve bought a few books on it, and I see a counselor for a lot of my work-related anxiety/imposter syndrome/passive personality in the workplace. But I haven’t made a focused effort on it, and I feel like I’m just digging myself into a hole because I’m such a passive person. It’s always been in my personality to be that way, but that clearly doesn’t go over well in the workplace and I’d like to do something about it.

    Are there any methods or programs you’re aware of that might be helpful?

    1. Jillociraptor*

      You might actually find some executive coaching or leadership coaching helpful. I used a few sessions to talk about similar issues. Rather than a training, you work with someone 1:1 who can help you figure out what’s holding you back from showing up the way you want to.

      One book recommendation that’s not specifically about assertiveness: Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan. It walks you through an activity that helps you identify what competing commitments you might have that are standing in the way of making a behavior change. I now use this framework all the time — both for my own behavior and when I’m struggling to understand others.

      1. Regina 2*

        Something I know I need to break myself out of is: When someone else is speaking, I always assume and believe they are telling the 100% truth and 100% in the right.

        If I get asked a question, I always feel like they are questioning how I got to that answer, that I’m wrong, and that I don’t know enough. Somewhere along the way (I think starting in college), this is how my mind thinks. When I was in high school, I was so much more resilient and confident in my abilities. I think without constant positive reinforcement (which in the school environment was good grades and people telling me I was smart), I have no inner way of determining if what I do and think is “right” or at least one right way to think about things.

        Coaching is a good idea; I actually started a conversation with a coach about this but shied away due to cost. But, I could afford it if I really put my mind and wallet to it, and since this person has actually experience working with my office, she may actually be a really good resource.

        Thanks for the book rec too!

        1. Jillociraptor*

          I relate a lot to a lot of what you wrote. Not to spoil Immunity to Change for you, but basically, the line of thinking goes like this:

          1. How do I want to behave
          2. How do I currently behave, instead of #1
          3. What are the competing commitments that make #1 hard
          4. What are the assumptions that I’m making that make #1 hard

          It might be interesting for you to think about some of the competing commitments (another way of thinking of this is: what is the bad thing that will happen if I do 2 instead of 1). and the assumptions you’re making. From what you wrote it sounds like you’re assuming:
          – That others’ opinions of your competence are more important or valid than your internal evaluation
          – That if others question you, it’s because they think you’re wrong
          – That if others think you’re wrong, that’s a permanent and global negative assessment on you (as opposed to a simple and fixable limitation of your perspective on an individual issue)
          – That answers can either be right or wrong, not collections of data that might contribute at different levels to the conversation (even if wrong)

          These are things I have assumed as well. One of the key ideas in this book is that once you name your assumptions, you can recognize that these are blind spots in your field of vision, not innately true precepts that you have to operate within. If you’re able to work with a coach, they will also be able to help you notice when you’re resting on assumptions that may or may not be true.

          One thing I try to do a lot more now is to name my purpose when I’m presenting an idea (especially if it’s something controversial). So, if someone asks me a question, I start by repeating back which question I’m answering: “It sounds like the issue here is that the Chocolate Teapots are consistently falling behind production after long weekends, and we want to design a system to anticipate that, right?” In a longer report or memo, I start by explaining why this question matters (what are the costs, strategic implications, etc.) and the objective of the answer. Doing this helps me to center on what a “right answer” would bring about–so I kind of create my own rubric by which to evaluate the answer I reach.

  151. Still anon for this*

    A couple of months back, I posted this comment in an open thread: https://www.askamanager.org/2016/08/open-thread-august-26-27-2016.html#comment-1187865

    and now there’s an update!

    We never 100% confirmed who the culprit was, but the most likely suspect was fired a month ago for poor performance and a worse attitude, and we haven’t had a single “code brown” since then, so…do the math, I guess. His big important project has been reassigned and moved farther in the last few weeks than it had in the months leading up to the firing, and the overall attitude in the office has noticeably improved.

    He also just contacted our CTO asking for system access and claiming his former C-level superior had previously approved it, which, um, no. Overall, then, a good outcome for us, not so much for him!

  152. Sparkly Librarian*

    Got the official holiday schedule for all library locations – this year the calendar lines up so that (with union support) we get TWO long weekends, for Xmas (12/23-26) and for New Year’s (12/30-1/2). Consecutive days off! The Saturday workers (most locations) don’t have to interrupt their holiday to come in. I’ll be able to spend the whole of family Xmas festivity with my folks. Plus I was going to take a couple days off (maybe baby, maybe visiting in-laws) and now only have to use PTO for one, which is already scheduled and approved. This is so much better than when I was working customer service phones and they needed to be covered 24/7/365 (by a distributed team). I was the only person in the office on Thanksgiving and on Christmas Day.

    1. Chaordic One*

      Yay! Small miracles!

      Make sure your supervisors know how much you appreciate it this. Tell your co-workers to let your supervisors know, too. (Power in numbers.)

  153. Okie Not From Muskogee*

    Does anyone have advice on coaching someone who is just not smart?

    I understand coaching specific skills, but what do you do when someone is simply incapable of either retaining or utilizing things? I don’t mean to be funny. I work for an agency where there are a couple of well known “rocks.” It’s not a value judgment on their personal worth; most are nice people, solid enough in most situations, but not cut out for advancement. (As my father would say, the world needs ditch diggers, too.) The issue is that my “rock” has recently announced that he intends to apply for an internal promotion again. Last year I coached him one on one through the process; we discussed specific skills, materials, practiced interviewing, etc. and he bombed.

    I’m willing to concede that I may not have been a great coach. However, this marks the fourth time he has applied, each time either on his own or with the assistance of others. Each time he failed completely. After seeing him in action, I truly believe that he would be disastrous for the organization in a supervisory role, and that if he were to be promoted, he would likely screw up to the point of termination.

    I feel as though I owe him a one on one conversation about his actual abilities, but I don’t see that going well. He always has an excuse for his mistakes. The last time he was passed over for promotion, it got really ugly – he became incredibly insubordinate after having to report to the new supervisor. He seems to believe he deserves a promotion by virtue of surviving in the company for X years.

    Is there a way to sit down and say “Look, you’re not capable of what the role requires, and it’s better for both you and the agency that you go no further in your career here?”

      1. Okie Not From Muskogee*

        No. Feedback is always offered, but he does not pursue it. The company uses a scoring system and generates an ordered list, so he’s able to see on which components he did well/poorly.

        1. animaniactoo*

          He’s given you a great tool there – tell him if he wants you to coach him through this process again, he needs to get the feedback so that you can discuss it. Would it still be available from last year?

          Otherwise, sit down with him and talk to him about how he sees himself in regards to the specific needs of the job he wants to apply for. It requires being able to do X. Does he think he can do X? How would he do it, what skills does he feel he has in his toolbox to be able to address it?

          Essentially, you need to walk him through seeing either a) he’s not the guy or b) he won’t be the guy until he improves on X no matter how long he’s been there or how many times he’s applied.

          Alison’s point about having 10 year’s worth of experience with growth throughout vs 1 year’s worth of experience 10 times may be a great framing for you, pushing that not being promoted is not what’s holding him back vs not having developed the skill(s) that he needs to be promoted in his time.

    2. Chaordic One*

      If he is reasonably literate having procedures written down in simple steps sometimes help people like him. Having these “cheat sheets” can help some people until the steps become automatic and rote. OTOH, even this might not help and it certainly sounds like you’ve been patient with him, what with your previous coaching.

  154. Jillociraptor*

    Just awkwardly described another colleague as “the one with the joyful, sparkling eyes,” so brb, gotta launch myself into the sun! XD

    Happy Friday, and may we all recover quickly from any of the week’s silly faux pas!

    3. TootsNYC*

      I describe people in weird ways like that too. But the funny thing is, people can always find the person I was speaking of.

      At least you were complimentary! (which I am as well)

  155. LibrarianJ*

    Seeking resume/CV advice, as my Google fu has failed me on this:

    In the last few months I’ve been responsible for hosting two (small) events: a half-day program/conference for a local group, and an annual meeting for a national group, both within my profession. In both cases, I was approached by the outside group to host and was responsible for making arrangements for meeting spaces, A/V set-up, food, writing up directions, etc. However, I had no role in creating either program or otherwise contributing to the content — just the logistics. While my boss encouraged me to take on both events, and both were considered in some sense a chance to positively represent my institution etc., this sort of thing is well outside of my normal job description.

    Are either or both of these events appropriate to include on my resume? And if so, how would I list them? I’m in academia, but non-faculty, if that matters.

    1. Pwyll*

      I’d put it under a Professional Affiliations / Memberships / Volunteer Work section (what you call it will depend on how many of them you have). Then list them separately similar to your jobs with a brief success, “recruited to manage logistical planning and implementation of 25 person annual meeting.”

  156. Not my normal alias*

    We’re having issues with people leaving a mess in the women’s bathroom. We don’t have customers, and it’s obvious that whoever is leaving the mess is an employee in this building. And there are so few of us who work on Fridays that it should be pretty easy to narrow it down. The person who discovered the last mess sent an email about it, and I think I might be the only one who hasn’t replied with some variation of “how awful” or “I’m sorry you had to deal with that” or “this is why I carry wipes,” and I’m tired of the conversation and I don’t want to contribute to it, and yet I think not replying via email (I did talk to the sender in person) makes me look guilty. And I don’t know why, as adults, we have to deal with this.

    1. MWKate*

      It’s ridiculous that you have to deal with this, but I would have to agree on your thought that a lack of response could be taken as a sign of guilt.

      Rather than responding and just contributing with another unhelpful ‘how awful’ comment, can you reply instead with a request for how to approach the situation going forward? That being said – I am not sure how you would because no one wants to be the bathroom police.

      Absurd. I’m sorry you have to deal with this.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        Unfortunately, the email pointed out that there *are* wipes in the restroom, so it seems unnecessary to ask how we should handle it. I thought about making a joke about DNA testing, but the thing is, I don’t WANT to know who’s doing it, and I don’t want to look like I’m trying to find out. I just want whoever’s doing it to stop.

  157. Jessi*

    My husband’s unemployment is passing the 4-month mark, and we’re both getting really worried about money. (Ok, me more than him. I’m the budget person.) He’s done a lot of applying but gotten only a couple interviews. I think he probably needs someone to look at his submission materials and help him figure out if there are weaknesses.

    Any tips on finding reputable resume writers/editors? This is software industry, if that makes a difference.

    1. Rosalind*

      I know this is late, but when my husband was looking we worked to streamline both his resume and cover letter using the advice on this site. He found he really needed to study and made himself cheat sheets because in interviews they were asking about processes that he used all the time but didn’t realise what they were called. As a result he was struggling to convey his vast experience. If your spouse is getting interviews, it might not be the submission materials.

  158. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    Has anyone here (or folks you know) ever gotten into JAG Corps as a direct appointment attorney? Asking for a co-counsel who’s interested (no prior military experience but has high expertise in a niche technology worldwide-known field).

    1. Pwyll*

      I have a few friends from law school who went Navy JAG direct appointment. They hated mini boot camp lite, and weren’t all that keen on the JAG school in Rhode Island, but last I heard they were pretty happy in their actual line of work (especially because they got to dive in on cases immediately). But they all went directly from law school to JAG, so I’m not sure if it’d be different for someone who has already been practicing.

  159. Princess Carolyn*

    Anyone have tips for saving money on business travel? My company will reimburse all my food costs, but I’m so broke that I really need to minimize the damage up front to avoid overdrawing my account. My hotel room will have a mini fridge but no microwave. Should I just buy a box of cereal and some milk?

    1. Lady Montworth (née Janice in Accounting)*

      I normally bring snacks when I travel no matter what my personal financial situation is; you never know when your plane will get in late after restaurants close, or meetings run long, etc. It’s always nice to have a granola bar in your bag, and it will also keep you from buying pricey snacks in the airport.

    2. Connie-Lynne*

      Depending on how frugal you wanna be, I have made all kinds of things in the in-room coffeepot or teakettle :
      * instant soup
      * pasta
      * rice
      * boil in bag meals

    3. Apollo Warbucks*

      Could you ask the company to give you some cash up front or maybe arrange to charge some meals to the room?

    4. catsAreCool*

      Bring some kind of nuts, maybe almonds if you like them because they don’t need refridgeration or to be warmed up, and they’re great for quick protein.

    5. zora.dee*

      You should ask your manager if it’s possible to get a small advance to help with travel costs. It’s not always offered, but I have had managers who got it for me when I was really financially struggling.

      But if I have a fridge in my room, I always run to a grocery or convenience store and stock up! Sandwich stuff is my go to: Bread, turkey, small jar of mayo, and I’m set for dinners. Instant oatmeal packets, can make those with the hot water from the coffee maker. Trail mix, nuts, fruit, string cheese, crackers, clif bars. And a cheap bottle of wine is really nice, so I can unwind at night. Depending on the shopping options, you also might be able to grab some pre-made salads. I had many business trips where I never bought a whole meal out, and it saved me so much money.

    6. Saturnalia*

      I travel with sandwiches – one for on the plane and the other for dinner if I can’t be bothered to go out. Whole fruit and crunchy veggies also travel well on the first day, and help round out the meal. I’ve also packed jerky, almonds, bars, and other dry snacks in carry-on. If you have luggage space and don’t mind eating like you’re camping, packing food along can really cut costs!

  160. Annabelle Peregrine-Smith*

    I was born Annabelle Peregrine. I had been working for a while when I got married, so I chose to hyphenate to Peregrine-Smith professionally. But since no one could ever spell “Peregrine”, online forms usually struggle with hyphenations, and if we have kids, it’s easiest to all have the same name, I legally changed my last name to Smith.

    This has been fine for over a decade- until my workplace moved to a new public directory that sucks the information directly from the HR files. HR only includes legal names, so in the directory, you have to look for me under Smith. Consequently, I’ve had numerous folks email me, saying, “Did you know you’re not in the directory?” and “Did you leave your company?”

    For months now, I’ve been fighting this. The first response was that I should legally hyphenate my name. I pushed back, telling them that I was not obligated to change my name for the convenience of our directory system. I did a little investigating and found other places that are using our directory system and allow professional names. I suggested our IT folks to those IT folks. That led to me being passed from person to person, with me following up every 1-2 weeks to see where we stood. And today, I’m told there’s nothing they can do. When I forwarded my email about other places, the person who has been “trying” things tells me that the other places must have some module we don’t have. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I’m really, really frustrated now.

    1. Lillian Styx*

      YES, how bout you go through the whole legal name change rigmarole just so WE don’t have to lift a G-D finger! Pathetic.

      But you’d think that upon not finding you under Peregrine-Smith, people would follow some kind of logic and also check under Smith???

      1. AshK434*

        Meh, I don’t think it would be the next logical step to check under Smith for a lot of people. I’ve never seen anyone un-hyphenate a name before without announcing that change.

    2. animaniactoo*

      From a tech standpoint – HR needs to update their files with an “also known as” field. This will allow you to be pulled into the directory as both “Peregrine-Smith” and “Smith”.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      You’re not alone. I just left a meeting with a coworker I haven’t worked with before.

      Her name in the directory is the equivalent of Annabelle.Peregrine-Smith, but her actual email address is Annabelle.Smith@co. So, you would have to look under the “P”s in the directory, which doesn’t line up with her email address using “Smith.”

    4. Student*

      Take it up with a manager, preferably one who may be sympathetic to your cause. Grass-roots effort isn’t getting you anything, so you’ll have to make an issue of it higher up the chain to get it fixed.

      Directories need to be flexible enough to deal with name changes easily, and to handle “professional” names in addition to “legal” names. Otherwise, they become ineffective for their intended purpose! This impacts people who go by name variants, nicknames, people with non-Western names where the “family” name might be first instead of last, and people changing their names for marriage, separations, or divorce. Directories should serve employee needs; employees should not have to go through legal hoops to serve the directory.

  161. Connie-Lynne*

    Y’all, I cut a vacation short to save up PTO, and four days later 30% of our engineering workforce, including me, was laid off.

    We got 12 weeks’ severance, which I’m about halfway through, and I have plenty of potential offers, but I’m kind of finding out I don’t want to work any more.

    Blargh.

    1. animaniactoo*

      that blows. I’m sorry. Can I offer you a baked goodie? My husband is campaigning for brownies tonight.

  162. New Mom*

    What is a proper way to show my appreciation to my coworkers following my maternity leave?
    Several of my co-workers, most of which are more senior than me, covered my responsibilities while I was recently on maternity leave. I was off during most of our ‘busy season’ and in addition to my leave, another co-worker recently retired, only increasing the workload for everyone left.
    I was thinking of writing a thank-you note to each co-worker to show my appreciation for their assistance. Should I do anything else/does anyone have any other ideas? I’m really fortunate that I was able to enjoy my leave without worrying about work.

    1. animaniactoo*

      Unless you know someone is on a diet, baked goodies usually go over well.

      However, I would say one of the best things you can do is not overemphasize beyond the initial thank-you, and work on getting up to speed fast and making sure you put in the same kind of effort for them when they are out for personal reasons, vacation, illness, m/paternity leave, etc.

  163. In-House in Texas*

    I started working for a new company in August and my commute isn’t great, but it’s not terrible either. I just learned that there’s a good chance that the office will be moving to a very undesirable location for me in April. My commute would double from 24 miles one way, to 51 miles one way, and traffic the whole way. I can’t do that commute. I’ve been told that we’ll have options. I’m guessing working from home a few days a week will be an option. Should I stick it out and see what happens, or start looking for a new job ASAP?

    1. animaniactoo*

      I’d start hunting. Worst that happens is you don’t find something and you need to continue the search if their options are undesirable. Remember you can always turn down jobs that you’re offered, you’re not required to take them. But if you wait, you’ll be that much further behind if it turns out that the options are undesirable.

      (and really – do you want to make that commute even a few times a week or every other week?)

  164. Jules the First*

    So I’ve resigned my position this week, with four weeks notice (so I’ll be working there until the end of the month) and I’m feeling sorry for my team, who are going to be orphaned until they find a replacement for me, which could take several months (it’s a pretty rare skill set – it took them four months to find me) and I’d like to make sure they have the tools and morale to cope in the period while they’re manager-less (I’m already campaigning for the org to hire a temp contractor to lead the team until they find someone permanent, but they’ve never done that before so it would be a stretch).

    So throwing this out to all you wise souls: What should a good manager do or say to their team when they leave? What do you wish your manager had said or done before leaving?

    1. Fortitude Jones*

      Tell them how much you enjoyed working with them (if that’s true), make sure you thoroughly document what you do each day so your successor will have an easier transition, thus making your former direct reports lives a little bit easier, and offer to be a reference for anyone who did a standout job while working for you.

  165. anonymous with a cold*

    My manager has said that anyone who is sick should take sick leave. She seems especially worried about contagious conditions because she has a relative or something who is immunocompromised and she can’t visit them if she’s been exposed to germs. She said specifically “No one should be coming in with a cold.”

    So…now I have a cold, and I’m wondering how seriously to take this. I want to respect her wishes, but at the same time I’m fairly new and it seems like a total wimp move to take time for a damn cold (really just headache and cough). Plus, I only have 2 sick days, and if I take them for a cold, I’d have to be on leave without pay if I get something more serious. What would you do?

    1. animaniactoo*

      Discuss your concerns with her and ask her what accommodations she can make if you end up with something more serious, because you have used your sick leave at a point when you could have worked. Stress that you respect her needs around her relative, and are concerned about your needs around your budget/being new.

    2. self employed*

      I would ask for guidance– especially mention how much sick time you have. Can you work from home?

    3. Mints*

      Oh man, I was prepared for “Just stay home!” but 2 days is so meager. Working from home or making up hours later would be the way to go, if you feel like you can ask for it. Mostly I’m here for “That sucks”

  166. rage is my caffeine*

    So… one of my employees is definitely, definitely wearing earrings in the shape of cannabis leaves today. They’re dangly and about an inch and a half across. I tried to convince myself I was seeing things or misinterpreting but I just got another look… definitely cannabis leaves.

    We are not in a location where marijuana is legal for medical use, let alone recreational. We are a professional office in the administrative side of higher ed. No interaction with students or virtually anyone else. We don’t have a dress code. Fridays are more casual. My SO, who has been a manager for a lot longer than I have, says I should pretend not to see it because some things aren’t worth the fight. I have no idea what to do. If anything. Anyone?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Is it really a problem? I mean, from a fashion sense I object, but beyond that, does it really matter? Marijuana policy is an increasingly mainstream political issue, and I’d argue it’s not all that different than wearing something that subtly supports any other political issue of the day.

    2. LisaLee*

      My great-grandmother had bedazzled marijuana earrings. She was a conservative Catholic nonna, but just had to have them for the glitter.

      Which is to say, it doesn’t indicate much about your employee as a person and you should just let it go. She might not even realize they’re not just pretty leaves.

      3. rage is my caffeine*

        A friend of mine suggested that she might not even know what they were. That literally hadn’t even occurred to me, but it is possible.

        Your great-grandmother sounds amazing.

    3. Rincat*

      I’m on the side of doing nothing unless it becomes a problem. One of my coworkers has a cup supporting her favored presidential candidate sitting in her office. The cup is plainly visible, but she never talks about politics, or the election, or anything. She doesn’t even drink from it or walk around with it, it just sits there. So to me, it’s really a non-issue, since she is very professional in all respects. I would think if your employee talked about smoking all day or came in high or something like that, then it would be an issue…but if she’s just wearing earrings and is professional otherwise, I’d let it go.

    4. Student*

      The whole pot-leaf decoration thing bothers me much more for the implied worship of being intoxicated than the legal issues. If it would be inappropriate to wear beer logos, decorate with shot glasses, or put up posters of drunk party scenes, then it’s also inappropriate to have this pot stuff around. Why people do this for pot but know better for other drugs (including alcohol) has always confused me.

      Sure, there are work places where that might be okay or at least overlooked – I know some co-workers who get away with shot-glass decorations and have worked with people who proudly display beer logos as decorations – but at a university, of all places? You don’t want to glorify intoxication at a university, generally. Or illegal activities, however you may personally feel about the law.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        But if the earrings were, say, champagne glasses, it would just read as festive at most. It wouldn’t read as worship of being intoxicated.

        That said, I really agree with you about how being opposed to marijuana prohibition (and opposed to sending people to prison for using marijuana) sometimes gets mixed up with being pro-using-marijuana, when they’re in fact two different things.

      2. rage is my caffeine*

        Yeah, this is kind of my discomfort, too. I happen to be in the “legalize it” camp but I would never, in a million years, think that it should be part of my work wardrobe. Nor would I wear one of the many beer-related t-shirts we have in my house, even on a casual Friday.

        Still, I won’t say anything. But I reserve the right to privately goggle at the choice of wearing it to work. :)

    5. KR*

      It’s a little brazen. I like wearing my Huff socks at work since they’re very cushioned and warm but only under my pants since I work with the public and only at the retail job since I might have to work in the police department on any day at the office job (and marijuana is only legal medicinally here). But you aren’t public facing so I think you shouldn’t make a big deal about it.

    6. Grendel*

      It’s not cannabis. They’re earrings, which are completely legal unless actually made out of cannabis. “Correcting” your employees inevitably burns relationship capital, so don’t waste it on the the little stuff if there is no practical effect to be gained.

    7. rage is my caffeine*

      Thank you ALL for your replies. I really was wondering if I had to do anything and you’ve all said I don’t, so that’s good enough for me. If someone else (like, my boss) says something about it then I’ll have to deal with it, probably. But for now, I will take a deep breath and let it pass.

  167. Canton*

    Just a vent:
    I’ve been done with my job for a while but it’s really getting to annoy me now. My boss is a moron with no backbone. She doesn’t want to make any decisions because she has terrible judgment and often makes the wrong one. As a result, I usually have to take on a heavier workload to make sure things get done correctly. She takes credit for my work constantly and thinks that a private “great job” is sufficient. Nope.

    Totally done.

  168. Databases!*

    I just need a little encouragement. I applied for a database developer position (I’m more of a reporter now, with some development duties) in another department at my company. I had a phone interview that went okay, and I didn’t expect to hear anything back. Then I got contacted for an in-person interview! Which is great, except for this: before I got the invite, I had to send in a ticket for an issue with a specific database. A vendor I’m working with needs access to a few particular tables, and I wasn’t sure how her access was set up. So I submitted a ticket and asked to have her access granted. The ticket went straight to the hiring manager, who is in charge of this particular database! He was very nice and explained how she should have access to the tables, etc etc. But I feel like I’ve made myself look like a fool. However they did still invite me for an interview, and I talked to him just now and he was like, we’ll see you next week! So maybe I’m just being hard on myself. I have a really bad case of job searching nerves!

    1. MWKate*

      I really don’t think you have anything to worry about. I wouldn’t expect someone in a different department to know exactly how my systems work. If he’s in charge of that particular database, he’s going to have more information on it than you would.

      Let it go and concentrate on the interview itself. good luck!

    2. Apollo Warbucks*

      Don’t worry about it!

      You didn’t know the answer and asked for some help rather than trying to wing it and I bet you were open to listening to what the hiring manager had to say which is a good thing.

      Good luck with the interview, please come back next week and let us know how you get in interviewing.

    3. Joanna*

      Don’t worry about it, unless you’re submitting unnecessary tickets constantly they’ve probably not going to care. I’d guess they’d prefer you to lodge tickets if you’re not sure.

  169. animaniactoo*

    I am about to leave on my very first extended vacation that is just me and my husband no in-laws no kids, just the two of us. After being together for 10+ years. I am mentally trying to push the clock to go faster so I can go home and finish packing. Unfortunately my Spock thing isn’t working.

    I am also breathing a sigh of relief because after weeks of little to no work (we operate feast or famine) there was a flurry of work, but it all got done (as much as can be done) and it’s still pretty quiet and being out for so long is not going to cause any major hassles. I was afraid it was not going to work out like that. So whew!

  170. Snazzy Hat*

    After ten months of unemployment, I HAVE A JOB!!! It’s currently temp, but it seems like such a great place I would fight my butt off to get hired full time. Without getting into details, I’m doing pretty much exactly what I want to do, pay rate is better than I’ve ever had in my life, it’s in a neighborhood I like, everyone I’ve met so far has been really nice (no one has looked at me with annoyance or treated me like my presence is a burden), and my employee badge looks just like a regular badge and doesn’t have any differentiating labels on it! Oh, and I’ve already made a work friend who is even nerdier than I am. ^_^

    Celebratory glitter and confetti for all!

  171. KR*

    I got a raise from 14/hr to 22/hr. A little (lot) sad I’m leaving this job in 2 months to move out West but the raise gives me the confidence to negotiate for higher pay when I get out there and start interviewing.

  172. AliceBD*

    Ugh just need to vent.

    I’m in BEC mode with one of my coworkers, and I’m not the only one. She has good broad ideas. And she’s skilled at the technical details of her job. But she’s acting like she knows how to do everyone else’s job and is telling people what to do, and she doesn’t. Plus she sucks at managing.

    She’s supposed to be head of the art department (for lack of a better anonymous description). She’s good at the actual art of it, but that’s it. Today she was volunteering to be a product manager for a thing. We have product managers! That is a COMPLETELY different experience than what she is supposed to be doing. And you can’t do both!

    Plus she repeats broad ideas a million times and (unintentionally) talks down to people, “oh we need to reach out to [consumer segment] and make sure they [want to buy our stuff]”. Yes, we know. We’re all in marketing. Do you have concrete ideas on how to do that? No? Then stop repeating it a million times like you’re the only one who realizes it. She comes over to me to ask me questions and every time it sounds like she’s accusing me of something. Plus she doesn’t know our market as well as she thinks she does, and she doesn’t pay attention, because she’ll fairly frequently suggest ideas that have already been tried and discarded or considered and discarded as impractical to do in the recent past.

    And she thinks she and her team are more important than anyone else. We were talking about how to get a specific very large set of files to several sets of external people we work with. First she kept insisting that the files were there and anyone could have access to them. We had to repeat 5 times (I counted) that we were talking about getting the files to EXTERNAL people. We already know everyone internally can get to that folder. And then we brought up having one of her reports manage getting the files to people, and she countered that her report was busy and doesn’t want to do it. We’re all busy and none of us want to do it. But it’s the job of someone at your report’s level, not the senior people you were suggesting, and it’s under her area of work, not the area of someone like me (slightly lower than her report, but totally different job).

    She’s perfectly nice and friendly and fine when discussing movies or her kids or family or any of those outside-of-work things. But I know I definitely not the only one annoyed at her.

    1. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

      Hilarious. Sorry, but, hilarious. I needed a chuckle. You’re dealing with a bunch of “age old” issues here and as I am Age Old, I’ve been there a few times.

      As far as I know, there’s nothing to do other than what you are doing. Possibly someone senior to her can bring her in line with contributing ideas that move a conversation forward.

      One of the big challenges for those of us in marketing is that we need and can benefit from other people’s input- the front line people talking to the customers, even the people packing the boxes. Even though just a tiny percent of the ideas might be helpful or even on point, you don’t want to cut the flow off, so more often than not you (or at least I, let’s switch to me), more often than not I have to practice my Patient, Thoughtful & Interested face in the mirror so I can pull it out when I’m hearing Stupid and Impractical Idea #672.

      And! A polite person doesn’t want to always be the one shooting holes in what someone else says so I know I do the mental calculation of how many times or ways I’ve shot holes through somebody’s something and try to keep the number as low as possible.

      The good news for me is that I’m dealing with pretty much everybody as a senior manager, so in your case I’d be the person who could approach your co-worker and work with her to try to get her contributions on point. (I’ve actually worked really hard to get our art dept, who reports to me, integrated enough to make useful suggestions and it wasn’t easy, mostly because art isn’t typically given the kind of information that lends toward useful ideas.) I’ve no idea what your environment is like but perhaps there is a senior manager there who is interested in helping generate USEFUL and not time wasting input.

      oh and P.S. my big challenge is when PTB, the people who own the company, bombard me with stupid ideas. O.o I mean, ideas that are interesting and I’ll take into consideration and see how we might best implement. That’s what I meant to say.

    2. rage is my caffeine*

      I had to look up BEC and busted out laughing. I have people like this too. I have no good advice, I’m sorry, I just want to thank you for introducing me to this acronym.

  173. Theresa*

    I’m wondering if I could get a bit of help figuring out how to word this email I want to send.

    Earlier in this thread I posted that I sent an email asking an old manager to be a reference for grad school. I was nervous that he’d say no, but he said yes (so hooray!). I think I made a stupid mistake in that email and neglected to mention that he’d need to write me a reference letter. When I start the online application process I can put his name in and the university will mail him a form to fill out. I think he just thought I’d put his name down and they’d call him or something.

    How can I send him an email thanking him for being a reference AND explaining that I’d need him to write me a reference letter (and not just *be* a reference for me), if that makes any sense? I’m suuch a wordy writer that I just can’t figure out how to send a short & sweet email.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      He probably assumed it would be written — all grad school recommendations are! Is there anything about the situation that specifically makes you worry he doesn’t know that, or is it just because you didn’t explicitly say it?

    2. Colette*

      I’d probably say something like:
      Thanks for agreeing to be a reference! I will provide your name and contact information to the school and they will be in touch. I think they have a standard form they ask the references to fill in.

  174. Sara*

    I found a position at a non profit that I am very interested in and decently qualified for, but the stated salary range is quite low. I am trying to decide whether to try for it knowing I would need an offer at the top of their range to seriously consider it. Their upper end is a couple thousand dollars below a reasonable salary for the position based on. I am not blow them out of the water qualified, but should be a strong candidate. Normally I would expect to be offered close to the bottom of the range based on my experience relative to what they are asking for. Is it worth aiming for the top of a stated range when the reasoning is market based rather than spectacular qualifications? Is it possible to ask for more than the range with a non profit that disclosed salary in the job advertisement?

    1. DragoCucina*

      Just be prepared for a “That’s not possible” response. Many non-profits are seeing their funding drop. Or if they are level funded it’s a defacto budget cut. The expenses have gone up, but the funding is the same.

  175. Formica Dinette*

    What questions do you like to ask when interviewing potential teammates, i.e., you’re not the hiring manager?

    1. Elle*

      Think about what’s important to your team as peers, then come up with some behavioral questions to try and capture those qualities.

    2. yellowbus*

      Are the questions to see if they’ll be a good cultural fit with the team that’s already there or around their work abilities?

  176. Happy in My Job, But I Could Move Up*

    Should I move up to Group Director? Or try to stay as Department Head?

    My team provides a Basic Function for our Chocolate Teapots for Women products. Other people provide the same exact function for all the other product lines: Chocolate Teapots for Men, Vanilla Teapots for Accountants, Special-Issue Teapots for Hobbyists.

    Until now, each of us Basic Function teams was embedded with our product line (the folks who design and create those teapots).

    I’m the head of my teapot’s Basic Function Department. I hire, schedule, budget, supervise, train, create documentation, set standards, advocate with higher ups, etc. But I also perform Function a lot of the time. In a way, I think I’ve got the perfect job; I wouldn’t go looking for another one for quite a while. Except that things are changing.

    Our company is taking all of us Basic Function people and putting us in a big group. And they want to have a Group Director. The Group Director isn’t actually the top person; there’s a Division Director who will supervise my function’s Group and another function’s Group. It’ll be upper middle management.

    I’m up for the job. I think I have a good shot at it; I’ve done lots of the stuff as a Dept. Head, and I’ve already done the “networking and sharing resources with counterparts” thing.

    But I was thinking about the day-to-day of the job. It seems really esoteric. I won’t really do Function anymore; I’ll supervise people who supervise people who do Function. Sometimes I think, “OK, lots of work to get everything set up, and THEN what am I doing? How important am I? Will I just be sticking my nose in other people’s business to boss them around, and creating work from them that will make me look important and valuable to my boss?” How will I know what to do each day? How will I know whether I’ve done a good job? (at my current job, there are metrics, deadlines, work arriving in the in box…)

    And…is this a position that, in the next cost-cutting move, is going to get dumped? (though, maybe my Department Head job would get dumped eventually…) I can’t afford to be in THAT spot; once I’m out, I don’t know that I’d get back in. I’ve seen people with ill-defined “director” titles get cut in such a move.

    And I kind of procrastinate on those esoteric things right now; I -like- the mix of being in charge and making the decisions, but still having my hands on some stuff.

    Has anybody made this transition, or seen it made? How do you be a Group Director and still provide anything of much value?

  177. Jake*

    I’m graduating six months from now. I’ve started my job search by networking hard and interviewing with a couple of larger companies’ new grad programs. When’s the earliest I should start applying for smaller startups? I’ve found some opportunities I’m qualified for at companies I’d love to work at, and I’m torn between (A) waiting for January and hoping similar roles are still hiring, (B) applying now to get on the radar, or (C) going through the “Open Applications” box and pitching myself as available part-time starting in January. Currently on plan (A) — any insight?

    1. Colette*

      Can you start in January? If so, apply now, but be clear about your availability. Some small companies take ages to hire, just like big companies.

      1. Jake*

        Looking at it again, my last post was pretty unclear: I’m available full-time in May (graduation). Because I haven’t finished my degree and most of my final year courses aren’t offered in night school, could start work in January only if the hours were flexible and/or part-time.

        1. Colette*

          How much free time do you have during the regular work day? If it’s an hour here or there, office work won’t be a good match. But if you have a few free days (or half days), you can absolutely apply for part time jobs. A lot of places will be concerned about having you work outside of regular office hours (unsupervised) when you’re new, so unless you’re applying for help desk jobs, full time is unlikely.

  178. Grace*

    I was badly injured last year in a work place accident. My recovery was delayed by the fact that my large employer had never purchased Workers’ Compensation. I am no longer working for that company and have had some temp assignments as I was being treated in physical therapy (and rest) for my injuries. As I interview for full-time jobs, how do I explain the gap? Thanks.

        1. yellowbus*

          Have used the same reason myself to explain a gap when job hunting and employers have always been fin about it. Good luck with the job search :)

  179. Yorick*

    My coworker constantly talks to herself. We have an open plan and her cubicle is next to mine. She bustles into the office in the morning, muttering to herself, and does it fairly regularly throughout the day. I’m new and don’t want to be petty anyway, but I really want her to just stopppppppppp.

    2. Snazzy Hat*

      If she’s muttering about work stuff, she might be engaging in “rubber duck debugging”, a method of figuring out solutions to problems by explaining the process. (See NM Anon’s response.) I’ve also caught myself exclaiming out loud, actually saying “ohhh, i got it” or “what?” or anything of that sort. I probably annoy the people around me when I do it too much, but I try to avoid full-on soliloquies.

    3. Chaordic One*

      You have my sympathy. People who think out loud usually tend to be extroverts and they drive me crazy, too.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Introvert here who thinks out loud at work by muttering to myself – it’s a habit from childhood, but I do try to be conscious of it and keep the muttering real low so as not to disturb others.

    4. Yorick*

      I mean, I do it too, but not when other people are around. When other people are around, I think these things silently in my mind.

  180. MacGirl*

    I wasn’t going to post anything today, but I ran into a frustrating problem while applying for a job.
    The description states that all materials must be submitted by midnight on the closing day (this is in the same time zone that I am in, btw). I didn’t find the job posting until a few days ago but decided this was something that I wanted to pursue. I was wrapping it all up around 10:00 this evening and went to attach my documents to the application I was working on only to find the job had been removed. There is no way to edit or finished what I was working on. It’s just floating in application system limbo. UGH.

    1. Snazzy Hat*

      I hear that. I applied for a job last month on the company’s careers page and got the rejection letter the next morning because “the position has already been filled”. Thanks for giving me the illusion of having a chance for a few hours, guys.

  181. BlueWolf*

    I am leaving my current job for a new one in about a week. I’m excited to start a new chapter, but also a little nervous. Does anyone have any advice about going from a small, pretty unstructured office to a larger and (I assume) more structured, corporate-type one? Or just general advice about starting at a new company? This will only be my second job out of college. I don’t know too much about the new culture yet, but it seems like they have a more formal professional development and performance review culture which is not something I’m really used to. I think in the long run it will be beneficial for me, but I haven’t had to really deal with criticism (constructive or otherwise) at my current job. I’ve been sort of a big fish in a small pond, but now I will be the new, entry level employee. They have really stressed that the first few months is about learning the ropes and getting the hang of things but I still feel anxious about adjusting to a new office culture and a new industry.

    1. Joanna*

      I suggest when starting a new job if you’re not sure how strict the rules/expectations are, err on the side of being a little more well behaved until you’ve been there long enough to work out where you can relax. Eg, don’t take liberties with the dress code in your first few weeks and consider avoiding personal internet use/phone calls at work unless told otherwise. You don’t want to be wildly outside the office culture, but better to come across a touch too formal in your early days than people’s first impression of you being that you’re unprofessional.

      As for the development planning and performance assessment stuff, ask! Your managers will probably be delighted to have someone who is keen to improve and meet their expectations. If they don’t have time to explain it to you at length, there might be documents explaining how the process works that they can point you to

  182. yellowbus*

    I’m leaving my nightmare job in a week or so – I was on the lookout anyway but a complaint of mismanagement from a subordinate who has been difficult ever since I got a senior job they wanted spurred me on to cash in my chips that little bit sooner. My superior also had an axe to grind with me regarding highlighting some errors on their part so it was a lonely spot to be in the middle of the two whilst the ‘complaint’ was investigated.

    So here’s my question: the ‘complaint’ was investigated by an external HR person as we don’t have one. Much of the complaint centred on management decisions I had made which were reasonable in the context of our teapot industry – and HR guy clearly didn’t get that. He would use examples from other industries of how my decision was poor (yes, this is ‘impartial HR guy hired by the company’ ahem) and the person who complained relied on the fact that the person investigating the complaint wouldn’t know a whole lot about teapotting. Example – say we buy all our teapot raw materials from some guy in Texas, complainant says that’s unfair and that it’s costing the company money…HR person is shocked/disgusted/overly dramatic and talks about how in plantpotting you can save millions by shopping around for your raw materials….and I weigh in that there’s a nationally agreed procurement contract with the guy in TX so we have no choice to get our materials from him. (Complainant knows this too but again is relying on HR guy siding that the decision was crazy because HR guy doesn’t do teapots!)

    Is it worth submitting a written document contextualising the decisions that were under question? I wasn’t given adequate notice of what the complaint was before it was investigated so was thinking on my feet during the meeting and in hindsight could have explained some decisions better.

    1. CAA*

      What do you hope will happen if you write this document, and who would you submit it to? If everyone else thinks the complaint has been addressed and resolved, then bringing it up again will make you seem like a sore loser that needs to have the last word. It sounds like there is major dysfunction at this company and you are getting out, so let them stew in their own mess.

      1. yellowbus*

        You’re completely right on all counts. I feel like I wasn’t given a fair shot at responding to the complaint but they’re the guys who decided how to handle things so no good would come from me saying anything further about it. Thanks for the reality check :)

  183. Mookie*

    Question cum rant about etiquette and meals:

    I’ve a former friend, current acquaintance (called here Proctor) with whom I dine out now and again. For the sake of convenience, we alternate who pays and tips each meal, an arrangement that extends to anyone who happens to join us. Proctor gets visibly distraught if I don’t finish the meal she’s paid for and/or if I don’t take the rest of it home with me. Her objection is not waste, but her pocketbook.The last lunch we shared included a mutual friend and co-worker to Proctor, Nurse, and it was Proctor’s turn to pay. The restaurant was catacorner to a public park, and I decided to ask for a doggy bag at the close of the meal. After we three parted ways in the parking lot, I crossed the street to offer the rest of my food to a teenager who looked like he was sleeping rough. Afterwards I returned to my car, where Nurse was waiting for me. In a light tone but with serious eyes, she chided my lack of grace and decorum — insinuating Proctor be allowed to dictate what I do with something she’s given to me on ceremony — especially in light of how Proctor feels (she’s pretty vocal about her thoughts on “fairness” when it comes to money), and said she, Nurse, hoped for my own sake that I wouldn’t behave like this at a business lunch or interview. I think she also used the word “tacky,” possibly “gauche” (favorite passive-aggressive insults of both women) but I was too infuriated to really take much of her monologue in beyond the thesis.

    I kind of think this is ridiculous and that no mature person would dare to micromanage somebody’s stomach or how they dispose of leftovers (barring something illegal or unethical), nor do I consider it disrespectful to anyone, including the chef, if I decide not to finish my dinner. In this case, Nurse warned me about her feelings on the decorum involving a category of meal that I normally think of as being expensed, so that’s not an issue, but what about this business of someone personally paying the entire table’s check? I shouldn’t think anyone would object verbally to donating leftovers and/or not licking one’s plate clean, but is someone going to feel slighted when I Rub My Spoiled and Unfinished Dinner in the Faces of Metaphorical Starving Children? If so, can we literally launch these people into space, where they can clutch their pearls quietly and leave the rest of us in peace?

    PS I’m never finishing a meal with either of these two again. I’m going to physically halve the contents of my plate into two equal parts and pointedly ignore one of the two halves just to underscore the point. You don’t even want to know what I’ve got planned for the soup course. It involves a straw, I’ll say no more.

    1. Colette*

      I’d stop eating with them altogether – and if you want to continue, I’d move to paying for my own food. They’re ridiculous.

  184. Greg*

    So I came across the story where the person interviewing for a job was at a 15hour interview and had to cook/entertain like 40 people and there were all kind of mind games.

    I almost think there’s a genius level thing to that interview. I mean it lets you select the employee who will most let you take advantage of them, like it’s a great filter to find the company’s next slave.

    There’s also the discussion to have about people with conditions, illnesses and disabilities and a 15 hour interview requiring you to entertain them.

    https://www.askamanager.org/2014/01/i-had-to-prepare-a-meal-and-entertain-20-people-for-a-job-interview-and-so-did-39-other-candidates.html

  185. Ellen Ripley*

    I have a real dilemma involving a team lead I manage who has serious performance issues and who openly discusses the fact that she suffers from bipolar disorder. This employee is completely intolerant of any constructive criticism whatsoever. Any change in her assigned tasks precipitates crying openly in front of the team, sulking, sad faces, whining and the cold shoulder. Our team walks on eggshells around this lead and many people have complained about her demeanor–rudeness, snappping at employees, etc. (She says that this is a bad time of year for her because it’s the anniversary of the death of a family member.) We had a meeting with her a few weeks ago and told her that we expect her to perform her job satisfactorily and we are not able to discuss her personal health issues with her. And that if she wishes for an accommodation, she must speak with HR. In the last few weeks, her performance has deteriorated. She has never had much initiative, but now, she asks me what to do about problems an entry-level employee would know how to solve. Recently I asked her to take care of some work because we were short-handed and she left her desk and spent time crying in the bathroom. She called and spoke with HR. I asked our HR liaison whether I should be handling things differently and the response was “just be sensitive to her.” What I really want is for this team lead to be assigned to another department or moved into a role with no supervisor responsibility, but I’ve been told that she must be the one to request this. In the meantime, how do I manage a poorly performing, mentally ill employee when I have to be “sensitive”?

    1. Colette*

      1. Talk to your manager, be clear about the problems she is causing and the impact they will have (I.e. Good employees will leave). Make sure your boss is on board.
      2. This might be a bad time of year for her. She might be dealing with medical issues. None of that is an excuse for being rude or failing to treat others with respect. You need to be clear that she needs to be polite to everyone starting immediately.
      3. And she needs to take criticism and improve.

      If she can’t do 2&3, you need to get rid of her. If you don’t, she’ll be the only one left.

      1. TheLazyB*

        Again I agree with Colette, however I don’t like the implicit criticism that she shares her bipolar diagnosis. If she had cancer or heart disease would you have a problem with her ‘openly discussing’ them? Maybe it’s just a poor choice of words?

        1. Ellen Ripley*

          I think it’s one thing to share a medical diagnosis in a certain work context. I have stage 3 kidney failure, and I have told my boss that I need the flexibility to go to my medical appointments four times a year. I do not tell my boss that I dropped the ball on a project because my kidney failure makes me feel fatigued. Or tell someone I supervise that the reason why I’m annoyed with their questions is because of my kidney disorder. But this employee tells everyone she meets about being bipolar. Usually she tells a new employee within the first few days, or she makes an announcement about it to people who are sitting at their desks trying to work, including those whom she had told previously. She says it over and over again. She also raised up her shirt one morning to tell me she cleaned blood from her belly button for the first time in 10 days after she had gall bladder surgery. I have been treated myself for depression and my father suffered from bipolar, so I understand the disease. However, I also feel we do not need to know everything that is going on with a person personally all the time when we’re at work. My larger question is really what it means to be “sensitive” to this person when I am a manager and she is not a top performer.

  186. TheLazyB*

    Pretty late to the party but in case anyone is still around: this week a team I sit with, but am not part of, was having a team photo taken, for reasons that kinda relate to why I sit with them. I wasn’t going to go but that team’s manager encouraged me to be on the photo with them, so I did. The team’s big enough that it didn’t stand out that I was there but if our team’s manager saw it (no idea what will happen to the photo so don’t know if this will happen) she might think it was odd. I mentioned it afterwards to my line manager who didn’t think anything of it. Worth mentioning in conversation when I see my team this week? Should I have refused to be on the photo? Fwiw sitting with this team has been really good from my POV, before I sat with them I didn’t really have a home and I found that hard.

  187. EddieSherbert*

    Way late, but I need some motivation for improving my performance, and I KNOW Alison has had this topic come up a lot (bad review, bad impression, whatever – how do I proceed from here? type of letter). I searched the archives a bit but would love for anyone to share any links that stuck out to them!

Comments are closed.