open thread – December 2-3, 2016

by Alison Green on December 2, 2016

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. Job Offer Rescinded*

    I applied for a job that had a little bit of a longer commute than I’d like. I had a phone interview and an in person interview. I didn’t see any major red flags – I know the company itself had been bought by an equity firm and they had replaced 30% of their staff and the president had only been there 3 months – but all that seemed pretty calm compared to other places I’ve interviewed. (In retrospect, those probably were red flags.)

    That same night, they called and offered me the job – no reference checking and not contingent on reference checks. They sent me the offer and the salary was lower than I’m used to, but we had already discussed that and I was okay with it. However, I did try to negotiate 1-2 work-from-home days, due to the commute. I was not aggressive about it at all, but said something like “I know we talked about how the salary is lower than what I’m currently making and that’s fine but is there any room to negotiate one or two work-from-home days?” They’re a small company and he said no, not really, they need all hands on deck. So I said I understand – that makes sense and would they be willing then to offer some more PTO? He kind of rambled for a while and said that the offer was better than what it seemed in writing because they’re going to start having the week after Christmas off too, “maybe paid.” In any case, the way we left it was that he would get back to me the next day after talking to HR about a couple questions (they weren’t negotiations – just info on cost of health insurance, etc.).

    The next day, he called and told me that they had talked among themselves and decided that because the person I’d be reporting to had recently been promoted, they thought it might be better to see how that all played out and see what remaining responsibilities actually came from them being promoted. They had previously been the one doing this job. He didn’t think this particular job would necessarily be needed. He said they really liked what I had to say in the interview and they thought I’d be a good addition to their team, but they had to pull the position.

    This has made me nervous to negotiate in the future! I don’t know if I did something egregious or negotiated in bad faith? I knew the lower salary and agreed to that but thought I could respectfully ask for other things. Or did I just dodge a bullet? I’m taking it so personally! Has anyone else had a job offer rescinded?

      1. Chickaletta*

        Agreed! I took a job in 2015 and after just three months the owner decided that they didn’t need the position after all and I was given half an hour to clean out my desk. I had dismantled my freelance business to take the job and I’m still recovering from the clients I lost. Be thankful that they realized now that they didn’t need you. I think it has nothing to do with what you tried to negotiate. The one thing that will confirm this is if they don’t hire someone else for the job.

        1. Liz2*

          In fact I’d say you were awesome and should have gone ahead and asked for more money as well! This is a dodged bullet indeed.

    2. ZSD*

      What you did doesn’t sound egregious to me. I think they probably really did just decide to pull the position for a while.

    3. Job Offer Rescinded*

      Oh – and for what it’s worth, it’s not an entry level position and I bring 10 years of experience.

      1. Czhorat*

        Negotiations are negotiations. Decent employers won’t go km d it against you to ask for more.

        In my last search, I asked for an extra week of PTO. They answred that because I was telecomuting they did not want t to offer that and felt I’d have enough flexibility. I eventually accepted the offer anyway. Unless I was asking for something way out of line, I’d be shocked for an ask to result in losing the offer.

    5. Andy*

      I’d take what he said at face value. It sounds pretty par for the course for places in transition. Which sucks, and I’m sure I’d have my head spinning, but from out here it seems likely that he meant what he said.
      It’s not you. It’s them.

    6. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Your negotiation seems reasonable to me. I think you dodged a bullet. They were already trying to get you for a low salary, and now they’ve opted to task this new manager with his new role AND his old role, so it sounds like they just wanted cheap labor.

    7. Dawn*

      Don’t take it personally at all- take it at face value. Also if they are only *just now* figuring out that mayyyyybe they don’t need that position after all, you dodged a bullet- ESPECIALLY since they didn’t do reference checks.

      I think it’s pretty uncommon for a job offer to be rescinded for any reason (beyond a bad reference check or something bad turning up on the reference check). I would say maybe in the future have a set thing or things that you want if there’s a lower salary and saying that up front instead of going back and forth, but this sounds way more like the company was crappy in the first place than you did anything wrong.

        1. Artemesia*

          I have known a couple of people who were recruited to great new positions and left secure old positions, only to have the new company re-organize almost immediately and eliminated their fancy new jobs. The losses don’t seem to have had anything to do with their performance but to have been just bad timing. My husband after being of work for a year after he moved for my job, was offered two positions within a week. The one he didn’t take had the same nightmarish denouement for the man who took it. The company abolished the position 6 weeks after the guy started I was so grateful that wasn’t us — it would have been devastating for my husband to finally get a job and lose it so quickly. This happens fairly often — so be glad they abolished the position before you signed on and not 6 weeks after.

    8. Rowan*

      I also think you dodged a bullet. I’ve worked for small companies, and I’ve worked for large companies that were just acquired, and the chaos level of both those situations is high. So I can only imagine how chaotic a small company that just got acquired is! I would totally believe that they thought they needed to hire for a role, and got going with that process much faster than they should have, before fully investigating whether they actually needed that person (or whether their new overlords would allow the extra hire).

    9. Audiophile*

      I’m sorry your offer was rescinded, but it doesn’t sound like it was related to your negotiating for other perks.

      I’m going to say I think you dodged a bullet here. It seems like there’s a lot going on behind the scenes, with the company being bought out and staff being replaced or transitioned to other roles.

      Plus as someone who took a lower paying job, I can’t say I’m thrilled with my choice. And I’m finding it difficult now that I’m interviewing again and getting asked the dreaded salary questions.

      It really sounds like they didn’t think this through before they started the hiring process. And I’m highly suspect of a company that makes a same day job offer without checking any references.

      1. Job Offer Rescinded*

        Yeah, I thought hiring without reference checks was kind of weird too but it was easy to push back those concerns and think “Oh, I’m just so awesome, they didn’t want me to get away!” :) But I agree that it was weird.

      2. Meow*

        I think not checking references is really common because of the misconception that references aren’t legally allowed to say anything negative. So I’m generally not suspect of any company that doesn’t check references. Not saying it’s not a bad move from an employers perspective, but I also don’t think its an automatic red mark.

        1. Audiophile*

          I don’t think I’ve ever had a job that didn’t check references, except maybe my first few places of employment which were retail. Other than those few, I’ve always had some sort of reference check done, even if it was just personal references.

          I guess I’d find it less of a red flag if it wasn’t such a quick turnaround process. Like if the employer came back and said “We didn’t do a background check, but we definitely want to make you an offer.”

        2. Gaia*

          My company doesn’t do reference checks for any position. I remember thinking it was weird when I was hired but their entire hiring process is different than anything I’ve ever seen (in a positive way for both candidates and the company) and results in strong, happy workers (when followed correctly) .

          1. Bibliovore*

            I was once in a job that didn’t check my references . I didn’t know that until FIVE years in when the assistant dean said he needed written references for my personnel file. ( in two days time) WTF? I emailed the crazy request to everyone , I could think of hoping to get one or two back by the deadline . I ended up with 16 written references for the file and a huge boost to my self esteem.

    10. Snorlax*

      I agree with those saying that you dodged a bullet. I worked for a company that was acquired and over a period of a couple of years they made lots of reorganizations and eliminated/changed positions. It’s really stressful to deal with as an employee. The job getting pulled likely had nothing to do with your negotiations.

    12. Merida May*

      I can’t say if it’s a bullet dodged, but I definitely think this place might have not been the right fit, for sure. Their suggestion that the offer you received is better than actually written because of hypothetical perks that *might* be coming down the pipeline is a little silly. From your description of what went down it seems to me maybe they realized they don’t actually have the resources to pull in someone like yourself for the position and are willing to roll the dice with the staff they currently have.

      1. Liz2*

        Yeah my worst job was a slightly lower pay but strongly in the “We give bonuses that traditionally go 10-20% every year.” Yeah worst job and bonus was less than 2%. Argh. Shut that noise down.

      2. k*

        That was my thought. Once OP started asking more they an “oh crap” realization that what they’re able to offer really isn’t adequate and they need to rethink their staffing plan.

    13. Future Analyst*

      Yeah, I don’t think that this is on you. It sounds like there are a lot of moving pieces here, and they weren’t entirely convinced they had to fill the role you applied for. I think you dodged a bullet! The alternative may have been that they brought you on, then laid you off after 3-6 months b/c they still weren’t sure that the role is necessary.

      1. MsCHX*

        “The alternative may have been that they brought you on, then laid you off after 3-6 months b/c they still weren’t sure that the role is necessary.”

        My first thought.

    14. MsCHX*

      +1 on this was NOT on you. And that’s from personal experience and HR experience.

      You dodged a bullet and saved yourself some turmoil of being back on the market soon. Please don’t take it personally. And try not to shortchange yourself in the future. (I get that we all need to eat and have a roof over our heads and at times, we do what we must).

      1. Job Offer Rescinded*

        I actually think the salary is closer to the market rate of the work I do. I think I’ve been overpaid by quite a bit in several positions! It’s hard to know though, because I bring a couple unusual skills to the table. This particular place didn’t have any use for those less-common skills so maybe that’s part of it.

    15. Trout 'Waver*

      If someone tries to punish you for negotiating, they’ve shown exactly what they’re going to be like to work for. Bullet dodged.

      1. The Cosmic Avenger*

        Not only that, it would be a moderate level of jerkiness if they rescinded an offer due to trying to politely ask for /negotiate better perks. It would bring it to world-class level to act like it’s fine to ask, turn you down for that but still proceed with the onboarding, then come back and give you a FAKE reason because they didn’t like you negotiation but failed to say so at the time! I think you have to take them at their word, because if they did rescind the offer because of your gentle attempts to negotiate and basically LIED about why, that’s not a bullet you dodged, it’s a fusillade of cannon fire!

    16. H.C.*

      Ditto in that it was not negotiation at all; if anything, I think you should’ve asked for a higher salary AND work-from-home/flextime together.

      Good luck with your continued job search and yes, do negotiate come offer time.

    18. Anon 12*

      It wasn’t you, that’s pretty low level negotiating and should come with the hiring territory. But what’s up with Christmas week “may be paid”? That’s a month away and if they haven’t already made it clear to the staff whether they will be working or worse, whether they will be paid, that’s a huge red flag. Add it all up and it sounds like they have decision making issues in general.

    19. some1*

      “no reference checking and not contingent on reference checks”

      This is a red flag. Not because of YOUR references, but because of the lack of references of your coworkers. You could have ended up working for/alongside people who have are mediocre or worse employees.

      1. MsCHX*

        Eh. My company doesn’t do background checks and we have a fantastic bunch. Good workers, long tenure.

    20. designbot*

      This all sounds like your contact there pulled the trigger on your offer too quickly without doing his due diligence either on your side or within his own company. I would say that once they talked to HR about the questions you had, HR asked him some questions about where this new hire fit in etc. and made him realize it was premature. If you’d accepted the offer on the spot these issues likely would have come out within a couple of months of your start date anyways and you could have found yourself looking again.

    22. Rusty Shackelford*

      He kind of rambled for a while and said that the offer was better than what it seemed in writing because they’re going to start having the week after Christmas off too, “maybe paid.”

      MAYBE paid? Oh, that’s nice. Bullet dodged, IMHO.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        Expanding on that… you asked for more PTO and he told you that MAYBE you’d be paid for the week after Christmas. Which means maybe you’d have to use your PTO for it instead, so you’d actually get LESS.

        1. Marisol*

          I am very suspicious of anything that is supposedly “better than what it seemed in writing” too. That’s too weasely to me.

    23. Honeybee*

      Well, it sounds like they didn’t pull the offer because you negotiated; they pulled the offer, it sounds like, because they weren’t even sure if they needed the role in the first place. They definitely shouldn’t have posted it if they weren’t sure, but things happen. In fact, he even said that they thought you’d be a good addition to the team.

    24. Another HRPro*

      This type of thing happens. It most likely had absolutely nothing to do with your negotiating. It just sounds like this company is going through a lot of change right now and they aren’t comfortable filling this position after all. If I were you, I would not be nervous about negotiating in the future. It sounds like you were reasonable and professional.

    25. LuvThePets*

      I agree with the other commenters, but I have this to add.

      When a company has to rescind an offer, it is often because there is often some type of disorganization or disconnect going on. Other than failed drug/background tests (in appropriate industries with fair warning, etc) or something like that, the employer should have their ducks in a row before making an offer, and an individual with a history of drug use or a criminal conviction should be aware of potential fall out if those don’t come back clean (and when possible, these should be done in advance of an offer).

      My personal experience taught me this. I was hired by a company as CEO, but my offer was not rescinded. I was the second choice. The agency’s hiring committee/board (non-profit) made an offer to someone in house who did not meet the minimum qualifications as required by the agency’s accreditation and funding body. When the funding agency found out about the offer, they threatened the agency’s funding, so the board had to rescind the offer.

      Here’s the rest of the story. The board rescinded the first offer, and the employee stayed on at the agency in her position. They offered me the job and did not tell me about their very serious SNAFU. They even lied and told me I was the unanimous first choice. I had to learn from other employees about the staff member that had been offered the job and why we as an agency were on probation and having to do budget modifications in three month increments with our main funder. I had problems with the employee most of my time at the agency, because I had “her” position. I should have fired her, but I let circumstances prevail and made some bad decisions.

      As it turned out, the board were not “bad people”, just very very misguided, unorganized, and clueless and who pulled a lot of similar tricks. My two years there were the most unhealthy and stressful of my life. Disconnected is a great way to think about it.

      Don’t stress. You’ve saved yourself tons of heartache.

    26. Lily in NYC*

      I think they realized you weren’t a patsy they could take advantage of so decided to rescind the offer. Which is a good thing.

    28. Yetanotherjennifer*

      Look at it this way: your questions required a conversation with others to get an answer. In that discussion other issues were raised and that’s what led to their decision. So yes, they might not have done this if you hadn’t asked the questions, but by doing so theyve made good decisions and given you valuable information up front. And you all would have probably figured this out eventually, it just would have been harder on everyone.

  2. ZSD*

    I know this is a bit belated, but some work-related ballot outcomes from November 8:
    The states of Arizona and Washington passed ballot initiatives to guarantee paid sick days to (almost) all workers in those states. Beginning in 2017 and 2018, respectively, workers in Arizona and Washington will no longer have to choose between caring for their/their family’s health and earning a day’s pay.
    There are now seven states with paid sick days laws on the books: Arizona, California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington.
    Arizona, Washington, Maine, and Colorado also voted to increase their state minimum wages. Washington’s will gradually increase to $13.50, while the other three states’ minimum wages will gradually rise to $12.00.

    3. Lissa*

      Wow, that’s great! Does that include things like retail/food service? I never ever got paid for a day I didn’t work when I worked in those industries, and it led to a lot of terribleness. Luckily I am very healthy and rarely get sick but that was not true for many people ..

      1. zora*

        Often it is, yes, but I haven’t looked at these new laws. But in California at least;

        All employees who work at least 30 days for the same employer within a year in California, including part-time, per diem, and temporary employees, are covered by this new law with some specific exceptions. Employees exempt from the paid sick leave law include:
        – Providers of publicly-funded In-Home Supportive Services (IHSS)
        – Employees covered by collective bargaining agreements with specified provisions
        – Individuals employed by an air carrier as a flight deck or cabin crew member, if they receive compensated time off at least equivalent to the requirements of the new law
        – Retired annuitants working for governmental entities.

        I worked for a temp agency this year in CA, and even they were required to give me a certain amount of paid sick days in relation to the number of days I worked for them. It was awesome, because I actually needed them this year and it was great to not lose ALL my income when I couldn’t work. And it’s required for retail and food service also.

      2. Joshua Soccer*

        I’m in Arizona. For Arizona’s law the only real exceptions are if the employer is not covered by FLSA (private companies with less than $500,000 in annual revenue and not engaged in interstate commerce, or the state/federal governments), or if a collective bargaining agreement specifically exempts workers from sick leave. Everyone, part or full time, is entitled to 1 hour of paid sick leave for every 30 hours worked, up to a maximum of 40 hours a year (or if the employer has fewer than 15 employees a max of 24 hours per year).

        So yes, retail and food service are included.

        One neat thing in this law is that employees using this paid sick leave cannot be required to find someone to cover their shift. It also can be used to care for a large definition of family, which includes spouses/domestic partners and their relatives (parents, grandparents, children, grandchildren, siblings) or even those whose “close affinity” is the equivalent to a family relationship.

    4. paul*

      meanwhile, in Texas, workers have the bare minimum federally mandated protections and the agency in charge of handling *those* is grossly understaffed and funded. Ugh.

  3. HR question*

    Hey guys, especially hiring managers, recruiters and HR professionals I have a question my resume looks like this:

    Current position – 6 month contract
    Oil and gas position – 1 year
    Oil and gas position – 1 year
    Old non oil and gas job – 2 years

    Both of my oil and gas jobs I was laid off from and now I’m on a six month contract where I probably will not stay (pay is low but I had to get something quick after my layoff). Do I look flaky for taking this contract job? A year here, a year there, 6 month contract… Should I state I was laid off on my resume or just in my cover letter? I clearly stated my current position is contract. I wouldn’t mind to keep doing contract jobs either would that be my best bet going forward? Thanks in advance for any feedback and advice

    1. Barbara in Swampeast*

      I think most people know what it going on with oil and gas and that there are a lot of layoffs, so I don’t think it looks too bad. If you are worried, you might slip in a mention in your cover letter about the tight oil and gas market.

    2. NW Mossy*

      I’m not in the oil and gas industry, but I read enough business news to know that it’s a very volatile industry where large layoffs are common because the business is so sensitive to commodity prices. While short stays are normally worrisome, it’s not necessarily a huge deal when the reasons are external to you, such as a limited-term contract or the nature of the industry.

    3. Chickaletta*

      I think hiring managers in this industry know what’s going on. If you start to apply for jobs in other sectors, it might be someone you want to explain it briefly in your cover letter, like, “seeking employment in an industry that offers better stability” or something.

      1. zora*

        I agree with this. If you are ever trying to get into a different sector, I would definitely add a sentence in your cover letter, because there might be HR/Hiring managers in smaller companies who are not necessarily up on the news who might not realize that the oil & gas industry has been so volatile. And be prepared to talk about the sequence of events in an interview, so write out how you will explain your last few years and practice it in a mirror. But if I were you, I wouldn’t worry about this, people know that layoffs are common in that industry.

    4. Trout 'Waver*

      Everyone who would potentially hire someone with experience in oil and gas understands how volatile being employed in that sector is. Successfully completing contract jobs is a net positive. I don’t think it’ll hurt you at all.

      1. Ama*

        Yeah, my father is at an accounting firm that doesn’t even work in the oil and gas industry but they always know what’s up with that sector based on how hard it is to fill their entry level positions (in boom times accounting departments at oil and gas firms apparently hire like crazy at very high salaries).

    5. Hermione*

      I would probably say it on my resume for clarity

      Current position – date to date (6-month contract)
      Oil and gas position – date to date (layoff)
      Oil and gas position – date to date (layoff)
      Old non oil and gas job – date to date

    6. Amber*

      I’ve interviewed someone with a similar record in the gaming industry. It wasn’t enough to not do the interview but I did ask her about it during the in-person interview. So just be prepared to explain it.

      1. JuniorMinion*

        I’m in oil and gas… I don’t know that you even have to specify that you were laid off. Whether you were laid off or just at an employer facing a liquidity issue / potential bankruptcy no one in oil and gas is going to question much right now. Especially with the employer names on your resume, it should be clear to anyone interviewing you.

        I just started a new job in O&G, and was concerned when applying as I have 3 relatively short (1-1.5 year stays) on my resume and no one questioned. My last employer was a service firm facing a difficult financial landscape and the employer before that wanted me to move 1800 miles to cover different clients as their O&G revenue was declining. No one in O&G has batted an eyelash at my work history.

        Happy to connect offline if I can be of service in your job hunt!

    7. paul*

      My SIL is going through that (petroleum engineer until recently employed in CA). Doesn’t seem to have hurt her at all in her job search TBH.

    8. Another HRPro*

      I think mentioning it in your cover letter is fine and I wouldn’t put it on your resume. Going forward, once you land a non-contract job, I would recommend sticking to it for awhile if at all possible. Continuing contract work is fine but the longer you that, the harder it might be to land a steady position.

    9. OGAP*

      Hubs and I are in the oil & gas industry and work nothing but contact jobs. I wouldn’t be concerned about looking flakey since contract jobs are so prevalent in the industry. Don’t even worry about stating you were laid off on your resume (or cover letter), especially if you’re going to continue to do contract jobs. Unless you start applying for permanent positions or jobs outside of the oil & gas industry, no one will probably even ask why you left the last job.

  4. Just a Person Living Life*

    Alright, I need someone to slap some sense into me. Or help me figure out the appropriate emotional and verbal response.

    I’ve asked the CEO for a raise. Much practicing beforehand! I laid out my reasoning: I do a ton of work, I know I’m underpaid as I’ve gotten job referrals in the last year easily 10-15k (starting, no negotiation) more than I make, and I’m filling in 2 jobs roles. Not only did I step into my boss’s role when she left while keeping my old role too, I happen to know she easily made 30k a year more than me.

    The CEO was great! She agreed with me on all my points and thanked me for coming forward to point out that I deserved more. She said she’d put in a request to her boss for me. The office manager told me in a private aside that she actually had put in for a raise and believed it would go through with no problem.

    But!! But. Here’s where I am now: Very excited to get a raise but knowing I’ll probably not get as much as I deserve. The company currently isn’t profitable. We just broke even this year. And a 30k raise would almost double my salary. That’s what, a 100% raise? It’s not going to happen.

    So when I have a sit down meeting, how am I supposed to act? Very grateful I got anything at all? Disappointed I didn’t get as much as my predecessors, even though I’m doing more work, longer hours, and without their 15 years of experience at a high profile competitor? What do I say? Emotionally, I’m so up and down and confused. I AM grateful, but I know I’ll also be disappointed.

    1. Jessi*

      I think that since you are so underpaid you probably need to look for a new job…..
      Say thank you for the raise and quietly look for a new position paying market rate

      1. Artemesia*

        This. If you are a talented person working for less than they were willing to pay others in a failing organization, it is time to look for a better position. I would accept the raise with ‘I appreciate the raise and your going to bat for me, I am still disappointed to be making so much less than my peers in this type position.’

        And look further.

    2. Dawn*

      “…get as much as I deserve”:
      How do you feel about this? Would you be willing to leave the company over it? That’s the question you really need to answer here. If you’re overworked and underpaid it’s never, ever, ever going to get better- even less of a chance of that happening if your company isn’t even profitable. That’s your reality and that’s what you have to judge your choice to continue to work there against.

      As for how to act? Gracious, professional, polite. What do you say? “Thanks for going to bat for me, it’s a great feeling knowing that my work is valued.” How to handle the disappointment? That’s the harder part- and that’s what you have to think about relative to my first point above. You have to decide if you can live with it or if it’s time to move on.

    3. Andy*

      Take the raise. Start looking. Negotiate your next salary and use the fact that you got increases even though at the time the company was just breaking even.

    4. nonprofit manager*

      I am in a similar situation. Have had many frank conversations with my boss about my very low pay. Very, very low considering what I am doing and the experience I bring to the organization. My pay is low even by non-profit standards (I am in a non-profit organization).

      When my disappointingly low pay increase was revealed to me, I was grateful to my boss for what he had done, but did express disappointment in the amount. I am continuing to work on that, all the while working collaboratively with my own boss and expressing thanks and appreciation for his support and efforts.

      1. Artemesia*

        I know someone who was grossly underpaid in a high level position in a non-profit. ‘They just didn’t have the money to pay more.’ Then he got an offer doubling his salary at another organization; he really liked his current job and didn’t want to leave so he told them he had an offer and they matched it. Then the other organization offered more and the first org matched it. He ended up staying with a salary 120% of what he had been making. They could afford it. He was worth it. They preferred working him at pitiful wages because they could. If they paid the OP’s predecessor more they can afford it, they just would rather underpay their staff. Time to leave.

    5. Tavie*

      You’re doing two jobs for the price of one. They are no longer paying your boss’s old salary because you absorbed that ENTIRE job for your current rate. They would still get a bargain if they doubled your pay, it would still be less than the two separate salaries they’d been paying when your boss was around.

      This just happened to me and I negotiated a 60% raise. It’s still half of what my old boss made (but he brought 8 more years of experience to the role so I was okay with it.)

      Just, whatever happens, keep in mind what you’re worth. And yeah, if you have to, accept the raise but start looking for jobs at a place that will pay you what you’re worth.

      1. Just a Person Living Life*

        Oh, but it’s good to hear you have such a similar situation. Even 60% is a lot for me and more than I would expect, but knowing it has happened to others gives me some hope. Thanks!

      2. Just a Person Living Life*

        My mom is driving me nuts! She will not take my wonderful AAM advice.

        Sigh. She works at a grocery store and was hired to do 20 hours a week. Perfect! She can only work 80 a month to maintain her disability benefits. But it’s the holidays, people are taking time off to be with their families or catching colds. So her hours keep getting “stretched.” It’s the “can you stay two more hours” convo or the “come in on your day off cause someone called out” call. And she says yes because she feels pressured to, but then her hours keep getting too close to 80 2/3rds through the month.

        My mother’s horrible, stupid solution? “Oh I’ll just tell them I need the last week of the month off.” WHAT? I’ve worked in a grocery store. You can’t just decide, with no notice, to take a week off. I don’t think you can do that anywhere!

        This is the perfect job for her and she’s really struggled to hold down a job for the last decade. We’d both be devastated if she lost it. I’ve been trying to give her some language to help with a conversation with those who make the schedule. “I’d be happy to cover for an unexpected call out, but for paperwork reasons I can’t work more than 80 hours a month.” “I’m happy to help out and stay an extra hour here or there, but for legal reasons I have to stick to around 20 hours a week so that I don’t go over 80 hours a month.” She’s just too embarrassed to actually say anything because she doesn’t want to admit she’s on disability.

        I’ve seen this pop up a few times in threads here, but relatives can be so frustrating on work issues!

        1. EngineerInNL*

          Would she be more comfortable saying “oh sorry I can’t fill in for so and so because I have prior commitments”? I can see her not wanting to bring up the disability but generally when getting called in on your day off it’s fine to say “I’m unable to come in on such short notice”.

        2. Liz2*

          Disentangle yourself from the situation. She’s an adult and has been since you were born. You take care of you.

        3. TheAssistant*

          I think I’d hammer on the legal issue.

          The thing is, managers in these high-turnover, high-flexibility environments really can’t remember that Sally needs every Tuesday off and Jennifer’s just turned 17 so she can’t work more than 35 hours per month or whatever. So I’d recommend your mom start reminding the person making the schedule about her needs before the schedule is made.

          And if call-ins happen, she needs to feel comfortable with the “previous commitment” excuse.

          Because there are REAL financial ramifications to her losing disability. Maybe lay those out for her if she’s not getting it. Give her permission to have prior commitments (even if that prior commitment is really just “I want to go home and keep my disability payments coming”).

          Good luck to her, and you!

      3. Ask a Manager* Post author

        So just to address this “doing two jobs for the price of one” thing because it comes up a lot: Unless you are working 80 hours/a week, you’re not doing two entire jobs. If two people were doing the work, there would be more work, it would be more in-depth, and there would be more responsibilities. That’s especially true since it sounds like the old manager had significantly more experience and was likely performing the job at a higher level.

        I’m not minimizing that you’ve been asked to take on a bunch of additional work and it’s harder to keep track of two areas than one. But I do want to make sure that you’re thinking about this aspect of it clearly, so that when you talk to your manager, you don’t make arguments that she’ll be dismissing in her head.

          1. BookCocoon*

            I would guess at that point you’d have the same conversation you’d have if you were working 80-hour weeks doing one job (and it wasn’t typical for your industry) — this isn’t sustainable, how can we reduce my workload, what is appropriate for me to delegate… etc.

            1. Bibliovore*

              Maybe not two jobs but what I’d when you left your job they hired two people to replace you?

        2. Just a Person Living Life*

          I do still think it’s two entire jobs, but it’s true my previous position was only 4 days a week. My last boss worked 40 hours a week and I worked 30. Now I’m working 12 hour days and weekends, and have had to cut back on the level of detail I used to be able to focus on some of my key tasks.

          But I understand this is an interesting point! It’s just not applicable to me.

    6. NW Mossy*

      I’d recommend not acting disappointed, because that’s going to make it seem as if you don’t appreciate the fact that others made a significant effort to respond to your request. If nothing else, say what you laid out in paragraph 3 here and make it plain that their support matters.

      As to what to do about the rate of pay, you’ve done what you can and this is what your company’s willing to pay you to do this work. If that’s not acceptable to you long-term, you can either try to wait a year to go to bat again or seek more pay elsewhere.

    7. Just a Person Living Life*

      I guess I’m not overly eager to leave. There are a ton of perks here, I like my coworkers, and I’m very confident in my job skills. The job itself was also a bit of a break for me. I slipped into it only thanks to need and opportunity, and don’t know anyone my age who’s risen quite so quickly. Perhaps in another year or two, when I have a longer track record of success, I’d consider a change…

    8. Chickaletta*

      Why do you think you won’t get the full amount you requested? You may. Don’t think of it as a 100% raise, that would be true if you were still just doing your old job. What you’re really asking for is to be compensated at your current level.

      That said, I’ve been on the other side of the table before and had an employee ask for a 40% raise in a year when we had significant budget cuts. Even if we had wanted to give her the full amount (which we didn’t, but that’s another story), the organization wouldn’t have been able to afford it. We offered 10% more which was pretty generous considering the financial situation were were in as it took away from other areas of the business.

      All I’m saying is that if you actually do not get the full amount requested, it may have more to do with what the company can afford and less to do with your performance. In this case it’s fine to be disappointed! Your CEO probably expects that reaction if you really deserve more than what they can afford to pay you. Knowing that a) you know that you’re worth more than they can pay and that b) you’re disappointed that you’re not getting that amount, can c) possibly motivate them to make raising your salary to the full amount a priority for when the money does come in.

      In the meantime, if you’re willing to stay, keep doing an excellent job and of course be grateful and kind to people around you. Keep them on their toes just a bit though. ;)

    9. Chriama*

      Quite frankly, I think you should leave this company. You’re doing the work of 2 roles which means they can’t afford to adequately staff. They also can’t afford to pay market rate for the people left behind. They haven’t been profitable and barely broke even this year. Isn’t that enough writing on the wall? Get out before it’s too late.

    10. designbot*

      I’ve been in a similar position before of receiving a very large raise but also knowing it wasn’t bringing me up to where I should be. The way I handled it was to thank them (genuinely, don’t just pay lip service), but also say that I understand that’s all the company’s able to offer at one time but I think we all understand that it will take several steps over the next year or two to bring me up to market rate. It went over well because I had the data to back it up and my next increase was also a good sized one.

      1. Just a Person Living Life*

        Perfect! My main concern was showing my enthusiasm which still leaving open some wiggle from for continued salary improvement in the future. This does nicely.

    11. Another HRPro*

      You need to decide if you want to work for this organization knowing that you will not get the type of raise you feel you deserve.

      If you do, then thank you boss for whatever raise you get and go back to work and stop thinking about what what your old boss made or what the starting salaries are for those job referrals.

      If you don’t want to stay unless you get a 100% pay increase, then still thank your boss for the raise, stop thinking about how unfair it is and start looking for a new job.

      1. NicoleK*

        Totally agree with this. There’s no point in staying with the company when you feel resentful. The disappointment may eat away at you and leach into your work.

    12. CAA*

      I may not be quite understanding everything, but did you ask for a $30K raise? I agree that you probably aren’t going to get that if you currently make about $30K now. Other companies are expressing interest in paying you $10K to $15K more, so that’s where your fair market value is and the amount you should be expecting in a raise. If you don’t get that, then it’s reasonable to start looking elsewhere for someone who will value you appropriately.

      It’s tempting to think that you’re doing your old boss’ job, so you should get her salary, but it’s not quite the same. She was doing her work plus managing you and also applying her 15 years’ worth of experience to the job.

      2. Just a Person Living Life*

        See, and it’s tricky! I don’t have her experience, because she had been in the industry much longer than I. But she only managed myself and one other person, where I’ve now expanded the role and manage 13 people…

    13. LuvThePets*

      Weigh out what is good about the job and what you risk if you end up leaving. Do you have PTO built up? Seniority? Good boss? If you like what you do and where you are but the pay stinks and the raise isn’t great, then see if you can negotiate for something that would make it even better… more PTO? Friday afternoons off? Flex time? Better title? an opportunity to attend an additional training or professional development? Pick plum assignments?

      If your job is just ok or you don’t like your boss or whatever, then start looking. But don’t forget, sometimes you jump out of the frying pan into the fryer. When you leave, you often start over with PTO, seniority, etc. Just a thought.

  5. Clemmy Clue*

    Is talking so highly about the previous employee a red flag?

    In my most recent interview, I met with a person from HR and the manager I’d be working with separately. In both cases, they rambled on about the last employee who held the position I was interviewing for. ‘Bob went above and beyond with this position. Bob took on so many additional tasks and expanded his workload. Bob has been here forever and The only reason Bob is leaving is that he created his own fascinating business on the side and wants to devote full time to that.’ In particular, the woman from HR said ‘Whenever we hire for an open position, we look for someone like Bob.’

    I felt pretty intimidated by their talk about Bob honestly, and was just wondering if this is a red flag for trying to fill in some giant shoes if I’m offered the job.

    1. Dawn*

      I don’t think it’s a red flag but it does give you some amazing information about what they’re looking for in a replacement for Bob- which is super valuable in you figuring out if you think you could give 110% all the time like it sounds like Bob did.

    2. HoVertical*

      It sounds to me like Bob was a favorite, but that isn’t necessarily a red flag. It is quite possible they are overlooking things that were less than stellar, and only focusing on the positive aspects of his job performance.

    3. anon for this*

      Let me tell you about my organization.

      Employees who replace beloved employees like “Bob” can never fill those shoes in some people’s eyes. Even if you cleaned up messes that “Bob” left behind but was good about covering up.

      But employees who replace less loved employees are heroes because they are cleaning up messes. Those employees are celebrated, compensated more, etc. Because they are doing such fantastic things to fix things for the organization.

      But Bob’s replacement, who is doing just as much, still isn’t living up to Bob.

      1. Audiophile*

        I’ve been the replacement for a few “Bobs” and in at least one case, I’ve been seen in the same light as “Bob”.

        I can’t say that I would want to walk into another scenario where I was replacing Bob. It’s just too hard to live in that person’s shadow.

      2. Christine*

        I took a temp to permanent position to replace someone that had been in the position for 30 years. It was a horrible experience. I was the 4th admin in 1 year after she retired.

    4. MC*

      “Fascinating business” could mean that Bob realized he could market himself as a consultant and make more money. Or maybe he went 180 and is sheep farming. Any clue as to what the fascinating business is?
      I think you can read this in one of two ways: “Bob did the work of multiple people and never complained, you’ll need to take on extra work and this is how we frame that expectation” OR “Bob was a go-getter, we like go-getters. To be successful here, you need to go above “above and beyond””

      1. Chickaletta*

        Yep. I replaced someone who left to start her own business and the owner went on and on about how amazing she was. But when I checked out her website, education (we were connected on LinkedIn), and of course all the files left to me, it turned out that she wasn’t well informed about the line of work she was in. I suspect it was a cover up for doing something else like returning to school or working elsewhere. The person praising her didn’t know what it took to succeed in our line of work so he couldn’t have known that she was trying to fake it ’til she made it.

    5. MsCHX*

      I don’t think it’s a red flag either necessarily. I tend to get a little put-off by stuff like this when what’s being praised is basically a lack of work-life balance; because I’m not willing to abandon my life outside of work. But it doesn’t really read that way…more like Bob was just a good, hard working employee.

    6. Future Analyst*

      Mmm. This could go either way: either they are trying to give you very clear direction about what they expect (which is helpful), OR everything you would do going forward would be measured against their (imagined) version of what Bob would have done. My money’s on the latter. If you still have time to ask them questions, see if they can point to anything they would have wanted Bob to improve on– this will tell you more about their expectations (i.e. if they wished that Bob had been available 24/7, etc.), or, if they say “nothing, Bob was perfect!” you’ll know that you’d never be able to live up to Bob.

      Frankly, if it were me and I had anything else lined up, I would opt out. [I had a similar but opposite experience: the manager couldn’t name a single thing that the previous employee had done well… which really only meant that no-one was ever good enough for him.]

    7. Natalie*

      I have to say, I’d personally avoid this situation. I’m in a somewhat similar position at – there was one beloved, long time employee, and then two replacements in a row that were substantially less beloved. In comparison to my most recent predecessors I’m kicking ass and taking names, but I’m still regularly blindsided by things related to the retired beloved employee – unspoken expectations, job duties that have been reassigned to other departments and my boss and I agree should not be ours, etc.

      But I am someone who strongly dislikes losing points because of someone else’s unspoken assumptions. That might not bother you as much, of course.

    8. Trout 'Waver*

      I think it can go either way. If Bob had a helpful and supportive role, they might feel that way about anyone competent in that role.

      Or, they could always judge you against Bob and find you lacking because of the rose-tinted glass thing.

      Overall, I’d probably pass if I had other good options.

    9. Chickaletta*

      I think the only thing this indicates is the level of commitment they want from an employee.

      But, I’ve replaced a couple “Bob’s” before and it turned out that “Bob” wasn’t the Mark Zukerberg they made him out to be. If you want the job, take the job. Don’t let this kind of intimidation turn you off, it may just be a lot of talk.

      1. SystemsLady*

        Oh definitely, but I’d also warn that sometimes management will want “Bob”-style work nonetheless. Sure, you may think that’s better, but “Bob” did his job well, we liked Bob, and why can’t you do it like he did?

        (I’m glad I’m not the only one who got those vibes)

    10. SystemsLady*

      I had something similar to me happen, but in a more passive kind of way and Bob still worked there. They went on and on about how they wanted somebody who had trait X and trait Y and I thought “oh, yeah, that fits me”.

      Turns out, they were talking about a Bob and specifically looking for a clone of him.

      It turned out well because I am pretty darn similar to my “Bob”, some random upbringing details even included. We both got pretty lucky there I guess!

      But I could tell my boss was expecting more out of me than it would’ve been possible to deliver (…since Bob already had so much of what he over performed on handled) my first couple of months. I think that definitely is a risk you take taking the job after an interview like that.

      Then again, something about what you’ve quoted them saying uncomfortably reminds me of programming “guru” horror stories (management always being an equal or larger horror than the “guru” himself). If there wasn’t a lot of substance provided about what exactly Bob did, approach with caution.

    11. NoMoreMrFixit*

      The few times I ran into this I found that they expected the new hire to walk in and perform at the same level as the previous occupant of the job. Ran like a jackrabbit.

      With one notable exception where they made sure it was clear they didn’t expect that level of performance from the replacement hire. I ended up staying in the job for almost 11 years and it was the best place I ever worked.

    12. TheCupcakeCounter*

      I actually consider it a good sign when an employer has positive things to say about their employees that leave. This might be a bit on the excessive side which it probably why you are concerned and I can’t say I blame you for it. If you have another interview or conversation with them I would ask about the expectations of a new employee. Such as “it appears that you have extremely high regard for Bob as you have mentioned A, B, and C about him. As a new employee I obviously won’t be able to do a lot of that since I won’t have that knowledge he had so I am concerned about the expectations placed upon the replacement person and how that will affect their success in the position.”
      Maybe then they will clarify that it was more about Bob’s attitude, reliability, etc…than his actual skill set or they will be stunned that their appreciation of their former employee is potentially scaring off good candidates who are concerned that no matter what they do no one will be Bob and aren’t willing to risk low performance reviews and other negative comparisons.

    13. Zip Silver*

      I replaced “Bob” in my current role, when he took a promotion in the company. He’s reached out to me and helped me transition into the position, and we’ve been in touch. ” Bob” is actually really great. Everybody wasn’t kidding.

    15. Artemesia*

      In my first major post doctorate job I replaced a beloved Bob. I heard all about things he had done that involved making community connections and developing programs etc etc and felt I had to do all those things as well as get the basic job under control which was demanding in and of itself — plus I had a 2 year old and was moving ahead of my husband. I had a nightmarish first year barely glued together trying to be a single Mom, doing all these extra projects ‘Bob’ had excelled at and learning to do my basic job effectively. And then later I learned that ‘Bob’ had actually been fired because he wasn’t good at A B and C which they thought I would be much better at. I literally didn’t have my eye on the right balls. They loved ‘Bob’ but they fired him.

    16. Not So NewReader*

      Even in best of circumstances they are going to miss Bob. This could come out in many, many ways, “I remember Bob used to …..” or “Bob always did……”

      So even under good circumstances you could be looking at months and months of small stories about Bob.

      Steel yourself.
      Decide not to let it eat you up.
      Plan responses to various comments.
      Copy the best of Bob’s ideas because hey, why reinvent the wheel?
      Rock the job. They are going to expect you to be ON every minute that you are there. So come to grips with the idea that you are going to work very hard for a while just to offset their “missing Bob”.

      Would I take the job if offered? My answer is maybe. I would have to feel inside myself that I would knock it out of the park and I would have to be willing to wait for them to figure that out. In order for me to feel this way, the job would have to have some major attraction for me- good pay, close to home, good hours, interesting work, or something. There would have to be something in place that would keep me going through a bad day.

      For me to seriously consider this my gut would have to say that I can do as well or better than Bob.

  6. Christy*

    How do you work while you’re grieving? Assuming that you are working while you’re grieving and don’t want to take time off work.

    1. EddieSherbert*

      For me personally, I liked being busy/distracted, so work was a good thing. Things that helped me with that:
      – no social media and no personal phone. They really increased the chances I would run into something that set me off.
      – taking breaks/walks (even if it was just around the building).
      – being able to accept the need to maybe go find a quiet spot (bathroom) and cry a little
      – working from home… sort of. If I was already having a REALLY bad day, it was nice to be home where no one could see that. But if I was having an okay day, working from home did NOT help because I was more likely to become sad.

      But overall, give yourself a lot of slack – and loop your manager in (if you’re comfortable with that).

      1. LSP*

        This is all very good advice. When I lost my nephew last year, work helped keep me distracted, but at the same time, my grief sometimes distracted me from my work. Let your manager know what’s going on with you, take breaks, and, above all, be kind and patient with yourself.

    2. Catalin*

      1) I’m so sorry. This is tough. I have a few recommendations, but ultimately nothing is going to change how much you hurt inside.
      2) Let your manager/work buddy know; they can help deflect things you can’t currently do well and may be able to limit ‘triggers’ for you
      3) listen to music while you’re working. The more things your brain has to deal with, the less it can focus on your pain. The music doesn’t have to be cheery; metal has some excellent applications.
      4) Designate time outside of work to grieve. Do weird things you wouldn’t normally do — go to a museum, take a walk in a park, take up a sport or exercise class, start painting, whatever
      5) Give yourself a break. Don’t hold yourself to the same standards you usually use because just like people need knee braces, you need a little extra support for a while.

      1. Sled Dog Mama*

        I found that when my grandfather died (I grew up living with him so we were fairly close) if I set aside a small amount of time each day, not necessarily for grieving but just for doing something different that was out of my routine it helped a lot. He worked the crossword puzzle in the paper every single day, so after he died I would spend 20-30 minutes each day doing a crossword puzzle. I was terrible at them at first but I’ve gotten better. Now 6.5 years later I still do the crossword everyday most days I can even finish them but its something that keeps me connected to him.
        The biggest thing that helped me then and dealing with other grief was to give myself permission to be not ok and when someone (that I w comfortable with) asked how I was to answer truthfully that I was not having a good day.

    3. The One with the Brother*

      One minute at at time. You step away when you need to. You allow yourself time after work to breakdown and build yourself back up. You distract yourself as best you can (if you want to continue working rather than stepping away). You’re kind to yourself and accept that sometimes, you just won’t be “present” even when you’re physically there. I’ve posted a few times about losing my brother suddenly over the summer. I went back to work less than two weeks after his death. My coworkers were pretty understanding and have let me mention my brother when I need to and no one commented on my output or quality of work (though I don’t think those dipped significantly — I was glad for the distraction). But, really, most of all, be kind to yourself. Practice self care when and as much as you can. You’ll be in my thoughts.

    4. Susan*

      I think this is a very personal and individual thing, but I have actually found that working helps me take my mind off of whatever I am grieving. When I get really focused on my work, I will realize that hours have gone by since I last thought about [sad thing].

    5. Drew*

      In my experience, it helps to be open about what is happening. “I’m sorry if I seem distracted right now. Please give me a few minutes to collect myself and I’ll be back on track.” Or “I appreciate all the well-wishes, but right now I really just want to focus on work. It helps keep me centered.” Or whatever is appropriate.

      The vast majority of people will be grateful for the clear statements and happy to follow your lead.

    6. Tavie*

      Such good advice from everyone on this. I went back to work 2 weeks after my mother died suddenly, and the distraction was helpful, but be kind to yourself.

    7. VolunteercoordinatorinNOVA*

      I think giving yourself a bit of a break is important. Knowing that there is a space you can go to (an empty office if you don’t have your own, a private bathroom, outside or anywhere you feel comfortable) if you need a second to compose yourself if you get emotional. When grieving, sometimes something that isn’t at all connected to your loss comes at you out of the blue and it can make it hard to keep it together. Having an exit plan can make that overwhelming feeling a little less stressful as you just have to make it to that space. I also have this app on my phone (Hear and Now) that is a guided breathing app that I found really helpful (and still use) when I’m feeling overwhelmed and need some help centering myself so something that can help you reconnect can be helpful.

    8. MC*

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I found that I just focused on the work, but I have no recollection of about 4-6 weeks of work in that time. I did good work, but just didn’t retain anything. I found that for several months I could get through the bulk of the day but it was exhausting holding it together. My boss at the time was upset I wasn’t joining any team events and I had to tell him that my dad had died recently and that before and after work hours I was a mess, he apologized and he was much more considerate (he really wasn’t a bad fellow at all).

    10. TheCupcakeCounter*

      The most complicated brain engaging work possibly or something that is physically demanding. My emotions needed a break and tackling a deep forensic dive into why a particular account was totally out of whack gave me some much needed emotional disengaging. However the first time someone asked about my FIL after I got back into a normal routine I lost it and cried for 3 hours until I finally just went home and made 300 cupcakes (all his favorite flavors).

    11. SystemsLady*

      I’m sorry you’re grieving – I’ve had to do that a bit too much this year myself.

      Allow yourself to take breaks. Be forgiving to yourself if you’re less productive than normal, and if your breaks go for longer than planned. If you have to take time out to cry, don’t let that discourage you from taking a normal break later while you’re feeling relatively good. Don’t feel guilty for grief “interrupting” your normal break either – just allowing yourself that break will have helped.

      When I grieved recently, I’d be extra productive for about 50 minutes, then get distracted by crying for about 20. What worked for me was finding a space to get upset, getting back to my desk once I felt I’d let it out, and trying to work until it happened again. (Having coworkers who knew to ignore me at this point rather than try to comfort me was really helpful)

      I’m not sure how much of that is doable for you, but be kind to yourself no matter what you do.

    12. Is it Friday Yet?*

      My co-worker lost her mother on Tuesday. She took Wednesday off, and to our surprise, she came back to work yesterday. She would have been allowed more time off, but she explained that she wanted the distraction. Understandably she hasn’t been operating at 100%, and everyone is just being flexible. I think you just have to do the best you can, and decent people will understand.

    13. fposte*

      If you have friendly colleagues, let them support you. I got a big new promotion that went into effect a day after my dad died, and my staff was so touchingly sweet about it I tear up just thinking about it.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        An unfair turnabout, isn’t it? The sweetness seems to bring out MORE tears. My aunt and I used to talk about this, the softness of the person can make me feel “relaxed” and then the tears start.
        Such is grief.
        I am glad your staff was so kind.

    14. LC*

      The best advice I’ve heard on grieving is “to pay the bare minimum on the credit card of life.” You won’t be operating at full capacity, and that’s okay.

      You should, however, identify what that minimum payment is in terms of your job and life responsibilities. If you have significant responsibilities outside of work, you should slash and burn those as much as possible. Ask friends to take over carpool duty. Quit your book club. Tell your YMCA soccer team that you can’t finish the season. Sign up for a meal delivery service.

      For work stuff, you should notify your manager so they understand that you may not be your usual self. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t strive to perform well, but you should still identify what absolutely NEEDS to get done versus what would be going above and beyond. Don’t let yourself drop your core responsibilities, but don’t feel bad if you aren’t up to taking on additional roles right now. You don’t need to helm a new project or agree to give a conference presentation if those aren’t central to your job.

      And most of all, be kind to yourself. The first year after losing someone close to is a bad, blurry dream. But I promise life will start to reorient itself eventually.

    15. Not So NewReader*

      Grief happens on more than one level, so I found that I needed to do several things.

      Physically: Grief can get a person stressed and the person can feel drained. I do best when I stay out of the junk food. This is not real hard for me because I have no interest in eating big meals or snacking, so I line up veggies and salads and simple meats. Drinking plenty of water is also a good idea.
      Next is rest. Now here is a toughie, because some people grieve by sleeping too much and some people grieve by sleeping too little. Try to have a set bed time and keep to it. If you cannot sleep, listen to soft music on the radio or quietly read. Make yourself be still and low key.

      Mentally. My favorite saying: Tears cause a chemically reaction in the brain that help to keep the brain healthy. Allow yourself time each day to cry. The quickest way to work through tears and get back to work/life is to tell yourself it is okay to cry. When we tell ourselves to stop crying or we fear the tears, it just makes it a 100 times harder and it can make it feel like we are not able to stop crying. Tell yourself it is okay to cry. Understand that the daily crying is temporary, you will not do it forever, even though it feels like forever.

      Emotionally. Am shaking my head, grief seems to rise up at the worst possible times. I’d see an ad on tv and start blatting. Stupid commercial. This is pretty normal for a person in grief. Read a little on grief and the symptoms of grief, and how grief shows itself. These books are not horrible to read, I promise. It’s comforting to know that a lot of what we see and go through when we are grieving others have seen also.

      Reduce stress in your life for the moment. Allow extra time to do everything. For example, if you would ordinarily do all your laundry in one day, allow yourself two days. Pad your time so you are not running and stressed because of being short on time. I wear my comfy shoes rather than my nice shoes, it’s just one less little thing making me uncomfortable.

    16. ..Kat..*

      When my 36 year old brother was crushed to death in a car accident, I took 2 weeks off. When I came back to work, I found that I was not ready. Luckily, I was working nights as a nurse and my charge nurse was very understanding. She assigned me patients who were unconscious and had no visitors staying the night (I am a pediatric ICU nurse), so I simply cried while I took care of my patients. I am not sure that this helps, just wanted to point out that this is difficult and you do what you have to and you rely on the kindness and understanding of others.

      Virtual hugs to you.

  7. TGIF*

    I had an interview this week that I think went pretty well until they gave me some office exercises to do. Not abnormal, I’ve done this stuff before. First task was in Excel, second was proofreading a printed paper, and the third was in PowerPoint. However, they only gave me thirty minutes total to complete all three tasks, an impossible task for anyone. If my current boss gave me these tasks and only half an hour, I’d tell her honestly that each thing done thoroughly and correctly would each need at least 40 min.

    Any other time I’ve done similar exercises in interviews, they either give way more time than is really needed to finish or there’s no time limit at all. So why did this one interview set me up for failure? A few friends think they were trying to see how I’d respond under pressure and with a short deadline but these were random exercises so it’s not like I could compare to see what was the most important and prioritize.

    I was just barely able to complete the first two tasks and only by rushing them so it wasn’t terribly thorough. Is this a normal interview tactic and if so how should I handle this in the future?

    2. Job Offer Rescinded*

      Yeah, I bet they don’t realize how long they take! And if they legitimately can’t be completed in the amount of time allotted, they’ll see that when they test other candidates.

    3. ZSD*

      It’s also possible that once they gave that test to everyone, they realized that they’d given too little time, and graded accordingly. We actually just had that problem. We gave everyone thirty minutes to complete three assignments, and it turns out that we would have gotten much better results if we’d given everyone, say, 45 minutes. But what we were able to do was look at who did comparatively better than the other applicants, given the time constraints.
      Thus, I wouldn’t worry a lot about how well you did on an absolute scale. If you were able to perform better than (or as well as) the other interviewees, then you’re probably fine.
      It’s possible they intentionally gave too little time, but I think it’s more likely that they just didn’t realize how much longer it would truly take to do a good job.

    4. Jessesgirl72*

      I know of an office admin job where the applicants were given a limited amount of time for that kind of test because the people administering them had a limited amount of time to spare to each interview. They explained the reasons, however, and said they knew the time was short, so told the candidates to just do their best. They hired the one with the more accuracy.

    5. Blue Anne*

      They may have been seeing how you do under pressure, and how much of it you could get done? We used to do that to programmers at a little tech company I worked for – give them an hour to do a piece of code that would really take longer than that for 95% of people. The team lead wasn’t necessarily looking for that 5%, he just wanted to see how people did with it.

      1. RVA Cat*

        My thought exactly. They want to see how you cope with the pressure, and maybe what your less-than-best work looks like. They are not looking for perfect or thorough, they are looking for “reasonably competent rush job.”

    6. Sled Dog Mama*

      I’d wonder if there was a sort of fourth test built in. How honest about time constraints are you, are you willing to speak up and say “To do this properly will take at least this long.”

    7. Jessie*

      I’d be straightforward about my expectations as soon as getting the tasks – just say something like, “Based on my experiences, these tasks together would normally take me [x] amount of time to get done and get done up to my standards of quality. I’m happy to work hard on this in the time you’ve given, and will do as much as I can.” And then do it, accepting that you may not finish. Depending on the tasks, might be better to do 2 projects well and leave one unfinished, than to do 3 in a sloppy way. But that’s (obviously) a judgment call.

  8. Sunflower*

    I am wondering what the etiquette is on this. I currently work at a firm in Philadelphia where we are headquartered. NYC is where most of our work is done though- we house our admin staff(me included) here because COL is lower. There are 3 people on our team and someone needs to travel to NYC at least once every week or two because of stuff going on in that office. A lot of the groups we support have asked why there is not someone on our team housed in NYC and we’re all told they don’t want to pay someone NYC salary. This leads to other teams having to pick up small parts of our work and I think some overall resentment which I’ve told these teams they should express to our director.

    I have a strong interest in moving to NYC in the next year. I know my company will go for it- they’ve let people do it in the past- and I would get a small increase but I’m not sure how much. I would be able to live in NYC on my current salary but it would be tough. I’d probably want to start looking for new jobs as soon as I got there(at that point, I’ll have been here for 2 years)

    So would it be wrong to move there and then leave not too long after? I really like my job and would love to stay for a few more years- but being in another city is more important so it’s really a matter of either job hunting from here or there.

    1. Dawn*

      “So would it be wrong to move there and then leave not too long after?”

      Yes. This would definitely burn a bridge with your company and paint you in a bad light. Your company sounds ridiculously short-sighted if they want to keep an office in NYC and pay someone to commute from Philly every week or two but not pay an NYC salary.

    2. AmyNYC*

      If your role already *existed* in New York I’d say taking the job and leaving after a year is ok, but not great. But since you’d be moving *specifically* to be your team’s NYC point person… it feels different, and leaving soon after would rink bridge burning. If you move and they create a new NYC role for you, I think you’d have to stay 2-3 year minimum.

    3. MsCHX*

      Chiming in with the others. Don’t do this. You can’t allow them to pay for your relocation and then leave. You’d need to job search now, from within your current city and move on your own or take the NYC job and as mentioned, tough it out for AT LEAST a year. And I think that’s conservative. You could take the position in NYC and own it and you never know, end up with a better title and pay down the line.

      1. Coalea*

        Agree that this is not a good idea.

        It’s also possible that if your company agreed to move you and to pay for relocation that they would impose some kind of restriction, eg, if you leave the company before [time period], you will be responsible for repaying the relocation costs.

        1. Sunflower*

          I wouldn’t expect them to pay for relocation, just to adjust my salary for the higher cost of living.

    4. Lemon Zinger*

      Yeah, that would be a crappy thing to do.

      An employee in my office worked at our main location for several years and was able to move to a smaller office closer to his new home, where he would be taking on greater responsibilities and operating more independently. After his second day there, he put in his two weeks’ notice. Turns out he’d been interviewing while the transition process was happening and he decided not to tell anyone.

      While I understand why he did that, it was a HUGE inconvenience for our department, and I know management was incredibly disappointed in him. I would not move to New York with your current employer unless you were committed to staying in that role for at least a year.

    5. Marcy*

      I think this would depend on how you phrase the request, and how much trouble the company is going through to relocate you. From what you’ve said, it sounds like it’s a mutually beneficial arrangement, so it’s not like they’re doing you a huge favor, and they don’t intend to give you a huge raise. If you tell them you’d be interested in moving to NYC, but have some concerns about whether the position’s salary is competitive in NYC, they’ve been put on notice.

      If the company is so unreasonable as to not pay market salary, I suppose they’re probably the type of people who might hold it against you for leaving soon after the transfer. However, I don’t think it is automatically an unprofessional thing to do, or that other potential employers would hold it against you. It’s like people who leave soon after getting a promotion and raise. I’m sue it pisses off their manager, but I don’t see why it’s a wrong thing to do.

    6. Chriama*

      How long are you committed to staying? If you’re just planning to take advantage of a paid-for relocation, don’t do that. If you could commit to staying for at least 18 months then I think that’s fine.

      1. Sunflower*

        I wouldn’t expect to be paid for relocation, I would only expect a salary increase for the higher cost of living. Honestly it all depends on how much the salary increase is. I’ve thought about bringing it up to my boss, who would support the move and go to bat for me, but the final decision is in our director and chief’s hands- and I think it’s the chief who is the one hesitant about paying the NYC salary. I’m nervous if I bring it up and then have to say no because of the $$ then it will make the company suspicious of me(signal i may be job hunting/wanting to leave)

        1. Nico m*

          Research the cost of living difference and offer to move to NY for that.

          Either its worth them paying X$ extra to have the NY person or it isnt.

        2. Chriama*

          So the issue is just the salary? I think if the salary is workable but not great, you should stick it out for a year. Start job-searching around the 9 or 10 month mark. At your next review, push for a raise more in line with NYC salaries. If they can’t do it, at least they’ve been put on notice and they got a solid year of work out of you. Quite frankly, if you do a good enough job that the teams you support get really vocal about how great it is to have someone in NYC your chief might revisit the idea of paying NYC salaries (or at least 1 NYC salary). But if you can’t stick it out for at least a full year then I think you would be operating in bad faith.

          On the topic of worrying about asking, I don’t think you need to. State your concerns to your boss – I’d love to go to NYC, but I’m concerned the cost of living increase won’t be enough to make it feasible. He can probably feel out how much of an increase is likely to happen before the official ask, so you don’t have to worry about turning down an actual offer.

    7. Honeybee*

      Are they going to pay for relocation there, or no?

      If they are paying for you to relocate to New York, then I’d say maybe, depending on how long after you move you leave. I’d say 2 years would be enough to absolve you of guilt; about 1 year seems too short.

      If they are not paying for you to relocate and you’re just moving your job location, then I don’t think it matters.

  9. thunderbird*

    Twist on the office holiday gift exchange.

    Instead of the common (and often problematic) office gift exchange of secret santa, yankee swap, etc. My office has adopted an interesting concept. We still do a “secret santa” style exchange, but it is a toy swap. The idea is that you buy a child/youth gift that you think your secretly selected person would have wanted. So it is still fun and brings camaraderie, however after the exchange is done, we donate all of the toys/gifts to a local toy drive. The best part is that it is completely optional participation and there is no silent pressure (I say this as someone who opted out this year). Fun idea to consider mixing holiday mingling and socializing with charity, everyone wins!

    3. Grey*

      I’d probably want to keep the toy. I wouldn’t, but I’d want to. Can I at least play with it first?

    4. Susan*

      That is a really cool idea! I like the fact that there are no hurt feelings about people not liking their gifts (and, of course, helping needy kids have a nice holiday).

    7. tink*

      The most popular gift I’ve ever done for a white elephant/gift exchange was 2 coloring books, a box of crayons, and a big bag of plain M&Ms. I love the idea of getting something you think another person would’ve loved and then donating it all to a toy drive though.

    9. TheCupcakeCounter*

      That is what we did for my husband’s extended family last year. We bought each person a gift based on their interests (bubble lawn mower for our grass obsessed uncle, table top hockey game for the hockey fan, etc…). Everyone loved it and they were able to donate it themselves to their local Toys for Tots or Salvation Army or we took it with ours. Can’t do it this year since our party is after many of the donation boxes are pulled.

    10. zora*

      cool idea! I wish we had more people here, if we did this might be a good option for us.

      I have to say, though, if I got something to put together, like a lego build kit or something, it would be SOOOO hard to not take it out and put it together myself! Like, my fingers would literally be itching! ;o)

    12. Clever Name*

      Love this!

      We don’t do gift exchanges, thank goodness, but we have done charitable stuff in the past. We used to adopt a family (or three) and buy and wrap presents. I have a boy, so I used it as an outlet for my unmet need to buy clothing for little girls. ;) This year we’ve tweaked it and we’re doing “competitive giving”. We have 3 teams donating to a local charity, and we can give goods, money, or time. It’s pretty awesome.

    13. Marisol*

      This is a really cute idea, although I shudder to think what people would buy for me. Is there such a thing as dominatrix Barbie?

  10. Ann Furthermore*

    Today is the one month anniversary at my new job. I am really enjoying it so far. It’s completely different than what I was doing before, but I’m still using my main area of expertise.

    There’s been a bit of culture shock, going from a huge multi-national corporation to a company with fewer than 50 people, which has been amusing. At OldJob, someone in IT would configure your laptop for you, all you had to do was log in, and downloading any software on your own was a cardinal sin. On my first day my boss gave me my laptop, still in the box, with some Windows and Office CD’s, and told me the only thing I had to do that day was get my laptop configured. LOL. I needed a copy of Microsoft Projects, so I asked if there was a spare one lying around. My boss told me to just buy a copy myself, download it, and expense it. I could tell she was thinking, “OMG, what is your problem?” when I asked her a couple time if she was sure that was OK, and I told her years of conditioning had made me nervous about doing that. We had a good laugh.

    It’s a long commute, but I only have to go into the office 2 days a week and the rest of the time I can work from home, which is amazing. The longer drive on the days I do go in isn’t bad; it’s all highway, and there’s only one spot where the traffic slows down.

    Another guy who started about 6 weeks before I did quit on Wednesday for what I think were kind of short sighted reasons. He is in my group, but in a different role. After this happened, my boss called me into her office and asked me if I was going to quit on her too. I assured her that I wasn’t, that I’ve been really liking it so far, and that learning so many new things has been fantastic. She asked if there was anything she could be doing to be a better manager. I said no, that I think our working styles complement each other pretty well. Then she said, “I’m so glad you’re on the team. You’ve already added so much value, and you are the exact person that I needed in this role.” It is so nice to be appreciated. My old boss would give you praise, but always with the undertone of, “Yeah, you did a great job on this, but you could have done better.” Ugh.

    I had lunch with a friend from OldJob yesterday. Things there are still pretty grim, with no signs of improvement on the horizon, and people continuing to drop like flies. I’m so happy to be out of such a toxic environment. I knew it was bad, but now that I’m gone I’ve realized just how bad it really was.

    1. ZSD*

      I had the same culture shock! “Wait, I have admin privileges on my computer? I can, like, download Skype without even having to tell six people first?!”

      1. Annie Moose*

        I feel the same way about NewJob! At my old job, we mostly just downloaded stuff and didn’t tell anyone (one perk of being a developer is that 90% of non-developers don’t know what software you actually need!), but most download sites were blocked, so we had to get it from the sketchiest sites or pass around installers. It was ridiculous!

        Now at NewJob, I have Steam and a half-dozen videogames installed…

    3. TheCupcakeCounter*

      I loved the post-leaving lunches where old coworkers told me how much they missed me and how things were falling apart in my old department. Didn’t make up for the years of overwork but still a balm.

    4. Alice*

      I’m also settling in and really thanking my lucky stars at how great my new workplace is. 2016!Alice is trusted so much more and treated so much better than 2015!Alice — but of course it’s the environment and culture that changed around me, not anything intrinsic to me. I just hope it never changes back….

    6. Anna*

      I long to work for an organization big enough to pay me what the going rate is for my position, but small enough to let me download or access whatever I need to on the Internet. As it stands, I currently have to email a data center in another state who more frequently than not tells me no by just sending me a link to the relevant handbook chapter.

      1. Nerfmobile*

        That aspect isn’t necessarily about big or small. I work for a large international company (8000+), and while our IT group does initially set up and configure our computers, we can then do almost whatever we want to with them after that. (there are a few constraints but not too many).

  11. rosenstock*

    i successfully put in my two weeks’ notice yesterday – my angry boss wasn’t so angry and took it rather well. i’m starting my new position at a bigger/better law firm on the 19th and am very excited! and relieved.

  12. Sunflower*

    And now for a tots unrelated Q to my one above..

    For people who work in sales- I’m contemplating a career change from event planning into sales(poss medical device but open a lot of industries) and am not sure where to start for finding info on job outlook, salaries, good companies, industries etc. How do I determine what is an average/good base salary and commission %? Is glassdoor reliable for that sort of thing? And is there a large variance by industry?

    1. slick ric flair*

      There’s definitely a decent variance between industries, and level of your role. A good rule of thumb is the more profitable your product, the higher the pay, and the closer you get to the owner of that product (so, whether you are a reseller), the higher too. Glassdoor was accurate for my org for the most part, but didn’t separate base/commission.

      Good question to ask in an interview is what percentage of reps hit target last year? this year?

  13. Temperance*

    Part of my job includes fielding calls from the public requesting legal service. Very regularly I will see a person who I have turned down in a “human interest” story in a local paper, and they will include a blurb about how the person talked to “over 100 lawyers” and “no decent person is a lawyer”, because no one would help that person. Meanwhile, the subject of the story is wacky, has a ridiculous case, and would cause endless grief with no benefit. Of course, I can’t respond to the story and SAY that, but I want to.

    So, in that vein, what would YOU like to vent/clear up? (This thread is inspired by the woman who tried to harass me into representing her in her $31 claim against a chain pizza restaurant.)

    1. Future Analyst*

      As a former paralegal still working in a law firm, I wish people realized how much PLs do at this firm/in this field!! I think most people think that PLs are essentially secretaries for the attorneys, and don’t realize that in this particular field, the PLs do 95% of the legal work, including analysis, which the attorneys then sign off on. [I’m also not saying the attorneys don’t do anything– they do a lot.] I’ve met plenty of people who are dismissive of my job b/c they don’t understand how much work we actually do.

      1. DCGirl*

        My husband is a career paralegal for the feds (DOJ, to be exact), and I totally agree. People always ask him if he’s going to go to a law school and get a real job some day (he’s 60).

        1. Lillian Styx*

          Wtf seriously!? That’s so rude and ignornant I just can’t.
          My aunt is a paralegal for the feds too and she makes more money than MOST of the attorneys she works for. Why the *^&$%$ would she want to go to law school!?

      2. Triangle Pose*

        “I think most people think that PLs are essentially secretaries for the attorneys, and don’t realize that in this particular field, the PLs do 95% of the legal work, including analysis, which the attorneys then sign off on.”

        What field is this? Public interest field? Legal referrals field?

        1. LK*

          Many solicitor-based fields operate like this – paralegals are basically on par with associates except they can’t sign off on their stuff. Paralegals are procedural experts with moderate substantive knowledge; lawyers are generally substantive experts with negligible procedural knowledge.

        2. LK*

          To add, fields that have “recipes” to cases – as in, almost EVERY client goes through the same process except maybe you do step 3B instead of 3A for different cases…..real estate transactions, lending/secured transactions, insolvency…. those are all ones that, in Canada at least, paralegals do a LOT.

      3. AK*

        As a current paralegal, thanks! How much we do can vary not only by field but by firm as well – and in some firms, it even varies depending on the attorney. At my previous firm, I did do 95% of the legal work for my senior attorney, and he simply signed off on it. One of the junior attorneys, however, wanted to do everything himself (mainly because he wanted to learn, which I can’t fault him for) and it took him ages to even let me or one of the legal secretaries draft a transmittal letter for him. Over time, as he became more comfortable, he started delegating more.

        My current project at the office I’m at now is coming up with ways to separate workflow and formalize tasks that can be delegated to paralegals and the differences between what the paralegals do and what the secretaries do, because we have had an influx of junior attorneys who can’t tell the difference either.

      4. Gaara*

        At some firms, like mine (unfortunately — it’s a waste of their abilities and everyone’s resources!), paralegals really are secretaries. I think it’s super dependent on your particular firm culture.

    3. Sibley*

      I’m an auditor. Just got an email from an auditee, letting me know he’s working on the stuff he owes me, but “he’s not the owner, Joe’s the owner of the process”. I’m sorry. You do the process. You review the results. You deal with problems. Joe is available to help if something comes up that needs the higher level input of the overall program owners. BUT YOU ARE THE OWNER OF THIS PROCESS.

      Thank you for letting me vent. Been dealing with this nonsense for 3 months now…

    4. Emi.*

      That sounds terrible, and I’m sorry! I will join you in venting.
      I commute by bus, and there’s a group of 2-3 men who ride a different bus that picks up at the same stop. Every day after work, they sit down behind the bus shelter to drink and smoke (which smells) and complain loudly about their girlfriends, who are apparently “wh0res,” “b!tches,” jealous, conniving, lazy, needy, and triflin’. Apparently the solution to this problem is to argue with said girlfriends and complain about them behind their backs, but not break up with them. (I guess I’m venting about other people’s venting? Haha now I feel kind of bad. But only a bit.)

      1. Poohbear McGriddles*

        Perhaps the “wh0res,” “b!tches,” jealous, conniving, lazy, needy, and triflin’ girlfriends make really good sandwiches. Sometimes a cost-benefit analysis is in order.

        1. Emi.*

          Haha this is a good thought, but actually, another one of their many faults is refusing to make breakfast even though “I bought you that d@mn food, b!tch, you can’t deny me nothing!”

    5. Lillian Styx*

      Omg, yes the classic “I’ve called all the legal aid places and all you give me is the runaround.” I always want to tell them something to the effect of “If it smells like shit everywhere you go, check your own shoe.” But alas.

      1. Temperance*

        OMG YES.

        One memorable nutjob insisted that I give her a list of all of our clients (LOL) because I told her that we weren’t helping her sue the state of NJ, a particular town, the town’s police department, several cops, her neighbors, and DYFS (their version of CPS). She was a particular kind of awful.

        Well, she’s tied with the rapist who called me also wanting to sue the state of NJ because he, and I quote, as a “resident of a facility for those convicted of sex crimes” wanted disability payments, which he lost after he “lost his residential spot in a facility due to a jail sentence”. How about you raped someone, a-hole, and went to prison for raping another person. I didn’t bother calling that one back.

        1. AK*

          I did intakes and client screening for a personal injury attorney for a while, so I feel your pain… I work at a legal aid type office now and you reminded me of those days. I think I’m going to bring our call screeners donuts on Monday.

          1. Temperance*

            Oh god that’s my literal worst nightmare job. You guys are heroes for handling that intake!

        2. Dynamic Beige*

          Geez, these sound like they would make good blog posts. “How to determine whether or not to hire a lawyer. 1. Is your claim under $1000? Go to small claims court because some lawyers charge that much for an hour.”

      3. MsChanandlerBong*

        I have never heard that before, and it is just perfect! I usually just say, “If you have a problem with everyone, maybe YOU’RE the problem” (like my college friend who had four or five roommates in two semesters).

    6. zora*

      I know this is so petty but it’s driving me crazy. We work in a cowork space, so there are maybe 100 people on our floor who all share a large kitchen/eating area (and several other floors that are the same).

      This is CA, so we have a big trash receptacle split into Trash, Recycling, and Compost. But the building management has never posted signs or sent out info explaining how those three work in the city, and most of the people on the floor seem to be new to CA, so almost everyone puts the wrong things in the wrong containers. The compostable plates/utensils get thrown into Trash, there are plastic bags in Recycle all the time, etc, etc, etc.

      Basically, I’m sure that the vast majority of the waste from this building is getting routed to landfill because it’s too contaminated to go to recycling or compost. And we supposedly have laws about this because the city is trying to move towards zero waste, but here are several hundred people just screwing that up on a daily basis. I wish someone was getting fined for it, and forced to have a better system, but I doubt it. It makes me sad, and sometimes I even take things out of the bins and put them in the correct ones, but it’s pointless because there is so much more in there. Now I just try not to look in them ever, but I get so angry every time! Rawr

      1. zora*

        Gah! They don’t even tell the cleaning staff how compost works, just saw one of the cleaners dump the coffee grounds/filter into the trash, not compost. AAHHHH

    7. paul*

      *twitch*

      In the social services world: No, we can’t wave a magic wand and fix someone. Sorry. And while I *love* housing first as an idea, it isn’t a panacea. And we *don’t have funding* for it. So don’t chew my agency out for not just buying someone a damn house! Great, you went and crowdfunded to get one person a couple weeks in a hotel! Nice, great. We’ve got a couple hundred unduplicated clients at any given time. Oh, and that person is already out of that hotel and back in one of the local shelters, so your high and mighty “well, we care about people not just numbers and guidelines” did sweet bupkiss! Meanwhile we try to actually get people into *real* housing, which has a waitlist a mile and a half long. And we try to get them into supportive services. And we try to work with the local mental health agency. It takes time.

      1. paul*

        Oh, and I can damn well promise that they weren’t kicked out of the local shelters for being a bit loud either. The shelters can’t/won’t (atm I can’t remember if they are bound by HIPPA) diviulge details, but try drug dealing on premise, having sex in the common rooms, trying to fight or stab other clients, etc. That’s usually a lot closer to what happened when we see a mutual client go to the news to complain. But of course we can’t actually *say* that so people think the shelters are just being jerks.

        1. Anna*

          You wouldn’t happen to be in a certain city in the Pacific NW would you?

          Serious question, though…How is getting kicked out and why covered under HIPAA?

          1. OhNo*

            If it’s a mental health deal, it would be. If the shelter is focused on serving people with mental issues, they might be bound by HIPAA because they would need some health information to allow people in. I dunno if that’s what he means, but that’s what comes to mind.

            1. paul*

              That’s not their target population, although a fair few of their clients do have a diagnoses. I’m not actually sure if they refuse to comment on HIPPA grounds or if it’s just an internal policy, is what I was going for. Sorry, I wasn’t as clear as I coulda been

          3. Observer*

            Even if they are not covered by HIPAA, they are probably covered by half a dozen other regulations that protect the confidentiality of clients. We have a blanket policy that we don’t even confirm / deny whether someone is a client without express permission, because the regulations around this stuff vary so widely, but we’ll never get into trouble by not releasing information (absent a subpoena, of course).

      2. Temperance*

        Okay I can relate to this on literally every level. I’m so done with people who don’t know the system who decide how help should look.

        1. Artemesia*

          I remember working at a University and often having advisees who were athletes and having to hear the jackasses at my local gym whining about how the university needed to help the hopelessly academically unqualified students succeed — all, ALL of their solutions were things that had been done for many years(of course, as they were pretty obvious) and most of their comments about what was going wrong were entirely wrong. The country club set is always so sure they know what is going on in the world and just how to fix it and I have never heard one of these conversations that was close to the mark.

      3. Rob Lowe can't read*

        Your first sentence also applies well to the students I teach. My Assistant Principal, who came to us from an affluent suburban school, cannot wrap her head around the fact that none of my students can read and write in English at a level that will allow them to pass 5th and 6th grade level state tests. Um, it’s probably because they’ve only been in the U.S. for three months. I’m an ESL teacher, not a wizard.

    8. Anon For This*

      Part of my job is to promote the program I work for. It’s a government program but administered by a contractor. However, we are still governed by all the rules that all other government employees and departments have to follow. The most frustrating is the rules about social media. I can get to Facebook, but only the government approved Facebook page run by the PR firm hired to promote nationally. I am not allowed to start my own Facebook page for my office. I can get to Twitter, but only the FAFSA Twitter account. I am not allowed to start a Twitter account for my office. I can get to Instagram, but only the Instagram account for the entire program. I cannot start an Instagram account for my office. Essentially, the whole concept that we should have free and easy access to information is ignored by our government and it makes me ragey.

      1. undercover gov*

        I have similar issues! Not only can I not start accounts for my office, but I can’t even send material to the units/programs we support or post on the agency intranet without getting the material approved by people ridiculously high up the chain. That takes so long that it basically makes topical posts impossible, and is the opposite of how social media is supposed to work.

        The even more frustrating part is that public engagement, relevance, and digital outreach are big buzzwords right now in terms of communication strategy, but the organizational hierarchy is what’s in the way of those things. We talk the talk but we don’t walk the walk.

    9. katamia*

      In my role as a transcriber: for the sake of all that is holy, don’t conduct your interviews in a loud restaurant. Also, verbatim transcription is a pain, and 95% of the time you’re better off just saving your money and going for non-verbatim. Don’t make me count your ten um’s in a row.

    10. Natalie*

      Our prior accountants (who also covered HR/payroll) were very creative about certain things. So mine is:

      Sorry they used to let you claim a bunch of fake exemptions so you could fiddle with your withholding. It’s illegal and I don’t like you enough to go to jail for you. Pay your damn taxes like everyone else does! Also, it’s seriously crass to do this when you make over $200K a year.

      1. Zip Silver*

        They do it so that they can invest the money in the year and then they pay their taxes in the spring. No idea on the legality of it, but it’s not to get out of paying taxes, it’s too get out of giving the government a year long interest free loan.

      2. MsCHX*

        You can claim however many exemptions you want on your W-4. It’s not illegal to claim more exemptions unless the IRS has determined you may only claim a certain number. If that’s the case they will notify the employer directly. You must also meet the stipulations to claim exemption from withholding.

        Otherwise, if someone wants to claim Single and 12, that’s their business and their tax bill will come in April.

        I HATE when accounting has so-called HR duties because assumptions like this being “illegal” are made.

    11. FTW*

      Every time you see a consultant, we are not there to cut heads, but usually to make the business run better.

      If you cooperate and are open-minded, you will come out ahead.

      If you withhold data, stonewall, or try to thwart change, you will generally be shooting yourself in the foot because it will 1) come to light, and 2) be looked on poorly my the sponsor… and potentially be a career limiting move.

  14. Susan*

    Last week, when I went to read one of Alison’s posts on Inc, I clicked a link to another article titled, “The most challenging interview question you can ask a job candidate.” (Link to follow in reply.)

    The challenging question (which, to nitpick, isn’t even a question) is for the interviewer to say, “I’m sorry, but I just don’t think this is the right fit for you.” See, 9 out of 10 candidates will move on upon being told point blank that they are not a good fit, but a superstar candidate will rise to the challenge and present an argument for why she is a good fit.

    Is it just me, or is this a terrible idea? It seems to me that this is a good way to screen for people who are desperate for a job and possibly annoyingly argumentative, and screen out people who actually care about finding a job where they and the employer are a mutually good fit.

      1. Gaara*

        Ugh! That’s awful. And it screens for jerks who don’t listen when people tell them no, not good employees (or even good salespeople).

    3. Job Offer Rescinded*

      I saw that too and thought it was terrible! I just hate head games. I can see that being a possibly acceptable idea for a sales job but even still. There’s a power dynamic there where you just don’t argue with your interviewer.

    4. ZSD*

      That’s horrendous. I mean, even if I did talk my way into being offered the job anyway, I probably wouldn’t accept it — why would I want to work for a boss who already had the idea that I wasn’t a good fit? And if I *did* take the job, I’d always have it in the back of my mind that they had their doubts about me.

    5. Murphy*

      It sounds like “negging”. Making the person feel bad so they feel the need to try and please you. Sounds gross.

    6. BookCocoon*

      It seems weird to me to react by agreeing OR arguing. Wouldn’t you ask, “What makes you say that?” and then proceed based on the answer? If they seem to have a good understanding of what you’re looking for, then you’ll see that it actually isn’t a good fit, but if they’ve misunderstood you or your goals you can clarify.

      1. BookCocoon*

        Oh, now I understand that it was advising the hiring manager to say that to everyone. That’s just weird.

      2. Mephyle*

        Cand.:“What makes you say that?”
        Int.: “I… um… we ask all our candidates that.”
        Cand.: “Ask them what? I mean, that isn’t even a question.”

    7. Purest Green*

      I feel like the employer who would create this challenge and the candidate who would rise to it deserve each other.

      1. Kelly L.*

        Ha, yes!

        I’d be like “Welp, it was nice talking with you, though” and go on my merry way. The pushies can have each other!

      2. Nolan*

        What a bouquet of dysfunction that process must create. This must be the process used by bosses in sitcoms

      3. catsAreCool*

        Agreed. I think the superstars are going to shrug their shoulders and go onto their next interviews, because a superstar usually has lots of other options. The people who are desperate might try to argue this.

    8. Leatherwings*

      I think most of the time challenging that (non) question is just going to look bad. But I could see doing it if someone is like “the commute here is long, so it doesn’t seem like the right fit” or something, in which case you could explain why the long commute isn’t an issue. But how often does someone tell candidates point blank in an interview that it’s not a good fit? I’ve heard that from interviewers after the interview (and I nearly always agree) but it’s never framed as a question.

      So yeah, most of the time it’s a terrible idea I think.

      1. Ama*

        Yeah, when I interviewed for my current job they were concerned about my lack of background in the subject area my org covers, and so I explained that I didn’t have a background in the subject area of my then job either, but that actually helped me since part of then job was communicating what the org did to people who also didn’t have a subject specific background (which is a huge part of my current job as well). But they didn’t phrase it as “you’re not a good fit” they phrased it as “this is one specific concern we have about you as a candidate, what are your thoughts?”

        But that article seems to be advocating lying to a candidate that they aren’t a good fit just to gauge their reaction, which is dumb.

        1. Artemesia*

          I like this answer and it makes a lot of sense. Lots of people do a terrible job communicating because there notion of common knowledge is so distorted by their lack of social skills and their expertise.

    9. smokey*

      Yeah, I’d be inclined to believe the person who knows the culture. To me, there’s no logic in trying to argue your way into somewhere you won’t like or fit in, so it seems to me they’re only going to get stubborn people who didn’t think it through.

    10. Persephone Mulberry*

      That boss sounds like a nightmare to work for. Based on his other “important” interview questions (assessing hunger, drive and competitiveness?), when he laid his “magic question” on me, I’d probably agree with him.

      2. Honeybee*

        Yeah, he sounds like the exact opposite of a person I’d want to work for. I am pretty ambitious and good at what I do, but I don’t want to work for someone who thinks playing head games is an acceptable way to hire.

    11. Stellaaaaa*

      On a basic human interaction level (which obviously includes the workplace) I don’t argue with people who state in plain language that they don’t like me. “We are not choosing you.” “No pleeeeease I want to spend 40 hours a week with you!!!” Like wut???? What kind of codependent, argumentative people are they looking to hire?

      1. Jessie*

        “I don’t argue with people who state in plain language that they don’t like me”
        That’s a great way to put it. I agree. It’s FINE if you don’t like me. I don’t need a particular person to like me. I’ll just move along and be on my way, and get a job that doesn’t require begging/ignoring clear communications or leave me feeling that I am starting off already on thin ice, somehow.

        1. Kelly L.*

          Right? I wouldn’t do it in dating either. If some dude came up to me in a bar and was like “You’re not all that attractive,” I’d be like “OK, go find someone who is then.” Don’t waste my time.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        “Dear Alison,
        I am manager in a cutting edge company. My whole office fights with each other all day over almost everything.
        I can’t figure out what went wrong here. If I ask my employees why this is happening they give me ten positive reasons why I should hire them. I don’t get it.”

    12. Guilty as charged*

      Geez, if I was told that I would have just shaken the interviewer’s hands and left. If you MIGHT want to hire me, why play mind games?
      (and also, do interviewers REALLY want to encourage persistent, won’t-take-no-for-an-answer behaviour?)

    13. Trout 'Waver*

      Could you imagine the level of sexual harassment that would go on at such a company? If you literally filled it with only people that trying to push past a clear, “No.”.

    14. tink*

      I wouldn’t want to work somewhere that thought I wasn’t a good fit, so I’d smile, nod, thank them for their time, and wish them the best.

    15. Alton*

      No, I agree. That’s ridiculous. Even if I think I’m a good fit for a job, I’d be wary of working for someone who didn’t think I was, and I wouldn’t feel good about trying to argue my way into a job where I got that vibe. It would set things off on a really bad foot. Sure, I might ask why they thought I was a poor fit, and if it was something I could easily counter, I would. But I’m not going to try to convince someone to hire me if they’ve already decided against me.

      I also don’t want to work for someone who plays mind games.

    16. Chickaletta*

      It’s an excellent question if you want to weed out good candidates and get bad ones instead, for the exact reason you mention in your last paragraph.

    17. vanBOOM*

      It really makes you wonder about the reptilian overlords who come up with these ideas and the employees who unfortunately have to work under them.

    18. Central Perk Regular*

      I was asked a variation of this question in a job interview years ago. I said, “Well, I respect your opinion and what you’re looking and if I’m not it, that’s fine – I’ll just find something else.” They ended up hiring me partly I think because I was confident in my skills set/ability to land a job.

    20. Marisol*

      If someone says I’m not wanted, I go away. It’s not a LACK of self-esteem that causes this; it’s the opposite in fact. This reminds me of trying to talk someone into dating you. Yuck.

    21. Elizabeth West*

      I would never argue that I’m really a superstar and they’re not seeing it. I’d point out that yes, superstars are great, but steady workers are just as valuable because they don’t flame out so fast. And then I’d say, “And I think you are right, because that’s the sort of job I’m looking for. A steady one. Good day, sir! I said, GOOD DAY!”

      Okay, maybe not that last, LOL.

    22. Honeybee*

      If you – person interviewing me, who already works at the company and presumably knows what is and isn’t a good fit for your position – tells me I’m not a good fit, then why would I push back, challenge, or argue with him? It just makes me look presumptuous to tell an interviewer that I know what his company needs more than he does. Furthermore, what does that tell him about me that’s valuable for him to know about in the job?

      It not true that superstars don’t give up. Superstars know the right time to give up and the right time to persist.

      Just because someone is a CEO or a founder doesn’t mean they actually know how to hire and retain employees. I wish fewer articles would rely on that alone as the qualifying credential for quotes.

      Also, people operate on outdated information. Google used to ask trick questions in their interviews, but they don’t anymore. In fact, they have explicitly said that they don’t anymore because it didn’t actually get them better candidates hired and ended up just making everyone uncomfortable and their interview process unnecessarily difficult and hostile.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Superstars also know how to recognize other superstars. Because they know what it takes to make things happen.

  15. Random Reader*

    Has anyone taken the Salesforce Admin certification test? Any advice? I’m looking for a career boost and have the current experience and framework for being an admin. I’ve been acting as an admin for about 1.5 years now and am looking for a career boost, hence the test.

    1. Paige Turner*

      Do you have coworkers or colleagues who have taken it? I haven’t but from what I’ve heard, it’s normal to fail the first or even second time you take it. Good luck!

      1. krysb*

        Really? My specific department has its own sales team, and we have finally gotten them access to SalesForce – but nobody wants to do anything in it and it’s frustrating the hell out of me. Can you tell me why you like it so much, so I can use it in my arguments of why it’s so beneficial to them?

    3. Brogrammer*

      Memorize, memorize, memorize. Most of the questions are based on the kind of detail (how many lookup relationships can an object have?) that you’d Google in your day to day work. If your company has access to Premier Training, the “Administration essentials for New Admins” video series is boring, but if you watch it and take careful notes, it does contain everything you need to know to pass the test.

  16. David*

    My wife and I are planning to eventually move to another city to be closer to family. I’ve worked in international development consulting for several years but am looking to apply my skills to the domestic (US) context. I’ve targeted several organizations in this new city doing relevant work but am wondering how I might engage them early in the planning process without being perceived as job hunting.

    I’d like to begin networking with staff at these organizations while being transparent that I’m interested for my own professional interests.

    2. fposte*

      Your last two sentences could be contradictory–can you clarify? You want to network with these organizations and be transparent about your goals, but you don’t want to be perceived as job hunting–but what is it you want from them, then, and aren’t you job hunting? Even if you’re not quite ready to job-apply, it sounds like that’s what you’re doing.

      This is admittedly not my world, but once you get above a support-staff level, I think it’s reasonable to ping somebody via LinkedIn or email and say “Hey, looking to move coasts, like the work you guys are doing, would love to chat further if you think there might be openings in summer or fall 2017.”

    3. Bex*

      Can you use LinkedIn to find a 2nd degree contact at one of the organizations? Personally, I think your elevator pitch is pretty compelling- that you’ve been doing international development, but are moving to new city for family reasons, and you’re interested in finding our more about the work happening locally.

  17. Roonil Wazlib*

    Our workplace is big on the Myers Briggs test, and every year we all take the shorter version of the test and review our personalities publicly with each other. (I know.)

    This year, however, one of the senior VPs admitted that she uses the tests to hire people similar in personality to her.

    Um. Thoughts??? The person in her department least similar to her in personality (and hired before they started using the Myers Briggs) just got fired, too, which is suspicous. How problematic is this?

    1. Temperance*

      That’s super strange. I’m an INTJ, and while yes, working with other people who are similarly cold and logical in all things is like my dream, it would also be a nightmare. We need chatty, friendly, feeling extroverts, too.

        1. Temperance*

          No joke, my husband’s results were almost exactly opposite of mine. I think he also had the J. He was completely unsurprised when The Unabomber showed up in a list of people with my personality.

          Not coincidentally, he often has to explain things to me from a feelings POV. Like, yes Temperance, the logical solution is X, but feelingspeople! don’t feel that way.

          1. MsCHX*

            Aw man my husband has an F.

            It did help when I finally sent him an article about how some Ts have some F. But I have no F. My F did not develop. :)

          2. AnotherAlison*

            Same. INTJ and ESFP. Whatever. Sometimes I do think I would like to be with someone more like me, but then I’d have to give him half my stuff and most of the time he is okay. #kiddingnotkidding

          3. Honeybee*

            I am an ENTJ. I have been known to say “Well, that doesn’t make sense. Your feelings are wrong.”

            I’m better now, but generally I have to just keep quiet rather than say anything because my kneejerk reaction is still “your feelings are wrong because of X.”

            1. KJ*

              I love folks who argue about feelings. As a therapist, I say “feelings can’t be wrong, they just are” and “you can’t logic someone out of a feeling” very regularly. It takes some people months to “get” it. Good for you to realizing you do that and trying to stop!

      2. Jessie*

        Hey, me too. And I agree we need chatty, friendly, feeling extroverts around – as long as I have an office door I can close.

        1. Temperance*

          My office looks directly into someone else’s, and we both lean towards introversion. We can also occasionally chat out the door.

    2. Leatherwings*

      It’s beyond stupid. First of all, that test isn’t scientific in any way, second of all lots of different personalities can succeed at a job. Personality isn’t *usually* the biggest factor in whether someone can be successful. That woman sounds like a loon.

      1. Purest Green*

        I can’t take these types of assessments seriously when I’ve received vastly different results from one day to the next. I would certainly hate to sit under the Sorting Hat when I’m having a Slytherin day vs. my usual Ravenclaw attitude.

        1. Leatherwings*

          Exactly! And god forbid I’m terribly ill or something and end up in Hufflepuff. Literal nightmare situation.

          1. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

            Tonks gave birth and fought the Dark Lord less than a month later. Your Hufflepuff argument is invalid ;)

            I’m a Ravenclaw, but I still have mad respect for the Huffles :)

            1. Leatherwings*

              Oh fine. Eddie Redmayne kind of managed to change my mind last month, so I guess you’re right. *sigh* this will require years of rethinking.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        She wants to hire people similar to herself?
        I thought that was a bad plan. I thought the goal was to hire a wide variety of people to cover all aspects of the work and make the company profitable.

        But I could be wrong.

        As long as you test like her you will have a job. No pressure or anything…

        I hope she is a member of every protected class out there, so she won’t mess up that part.

        1. catsAreCool*

          I’m an INTJ, and I’ve read about the MBTI. The books I’ve read specifically say that it’s better to have people from various types so that there are different points of view. It makes more sense for a business to have people with different types.

    3. Dawn*

      “How problematic is this?”

      Completely, since that’s a total wack-a-doo way to hire people. You hire people based on skill. Also “hiring people that are similar in personality” is a great way to drive yourself straight into stagnation because then you don’t have any diversity in the way that people in the office approach problems or conflict. Not to mention potentially getting into if “similar in personality” might be a coded way to say “similar in other ways too” that might be skirting into protected class territory as well.

    4. Persephone Mulberry*

      In addition to what Temperance and Leatherwings said, usually the point of those assessments, from a managerial standpoint, is to be able to build teams with multiple strengths, not just find your clones. Ugh.

    5. Barbara in Swampeast*

      I don’t understand why they do it annually. Your personality isn’t supposed to change annually. I am permanently INTP. As for the VP hiring only people similar in personality to her, that’s crazy and mis-use of the test. So is repeatedly testing.

      1. Roonil Wazlib*

        Haha, most people don’t actually take their tests again and just tell their supervisors their personality from last year. That’s what I did.

      2. ThursdaysGeek*

        My ‘personality’ (according to those tests) can change in 5 minutes. That’s because I’m on the cusp on all 4, so answering one question differently can change a letter. And since I’m often debating which answer is better of two equal answers (or two answers that are both wrong), I don’t always remember how I answered the last time.

    6. Jessesgirl72*

      Every year? That is so strange and useless. Not only has it never changed since the first time I took it (at 16) but at this point, I could answer to come out as any personality type your senior VP wanted me to be.

      And as someone who thinks the test can be helpful (in maybe understanding where someone else is coming from, and their communication styles) I’d want a well balanced team. I definitely wouldn’t hire a bunch of people like me. I do happen to work with two fellow ENFJ’s in volunteering, and while it’s nice to know there are other people I can count on to follow the eff through with their tasks, too many cooks can spoil the broth, if you know what I mean.

    7. Stellaaaaa*

      It’s more than a little nutty. I’m pretty middle-of-the-road when it comes to that test’s parameters and my results are different every time I take it.

      1. CAA*

        Me too. When asked, I say I am IxTx. I think I’m just completely agnostic on the N/S and P/J scales and apply whichever attitude seems appropriate to the situation. (Either that, or I have multiple personalities.)

    8. Susan*

      Ugh, that’s stupid, and that’s from someone who actually kind of enjoys personality tests. At a previous job, all managers had to take a DISC personality test and share the results with their subordinates, and I thought it was interesting (although not hugely accurate). But it seems crazy to use something like that as a basis for hiring and firing people, especially if it is to make a more homogeneous team. I am an introvert, so I identify better with other introverts, but I still recognize the value in having extroverts on my team, because they are better suited to do certain things than I am (and I hope they recognize the value in having an introvert on their team who can work quietly alone for hours and get a ton of crap done without needing to socialize throughout the day).

      1. Foot Solider*

        My company also does this and while I have found hearing about everyone’s personality types entertaining and mildly helpful, I would find it very frustrating to hear someone wants to screen job candidates that way! That said my company tends to hire the same couple of personality types so maybe they just aren’t vocal about it or maybe we naturally hire people like ourselves anyway?

        1. catsAreCool*

          From what I understand, the theory is that people are more likely to hire people that have similar MBTI results (even if they don’t know they do) as themselves, because they may feel they have more in common and maybe feel that they think the same way.

          One of the great things about the test is that it is intended to help people who are different understand each other and be able to work with each other more easily. I think that most people know about the introvert/extrovert differences, but thinking/feeling, sensing/intuitive are less known.

    9. Trout 'Waver*

      Very problematic on several levels. Those short Myers Briggs tests aren’t very scientific. And diverse groups generally come up with better solutions to problems than homogeneous ones. So she’s shooting herself in the foot.

    10. Xarcady*

      My feeling is that you want a variety of people working in a department/team, because you need different viewpoints on things. Much as I like to think I’m perfect and so are all my ideas, co-w0rkers have that irritating trait of being able to point out flaws and difficulties and concerns that I completely overlooked.

      I’d worry that in a department of more-or-less similar people, those flaws and difficulties and concerns would not be caught until they were big problems.

    11. NoMoreMrFixit*

      The folks who produce test admit up front that it should not be used for hiring decisions as there is no proof at all that there is any correlation between rating and job performance. Finishing up a course on Recruitment and Selection and this was talked about earlier in the semester.

    12. Susan C.*

      UGH.

      Now, in all fairness, I consider these to be only marginally more predictive of personality than horoscopes, and I don’t think there’s any law against only hiring people born in August either, so, meh. Since discrimination requires a coherent group to discriminate against, the only harm here is probably in cutting down the candidate pool unnecessarily. Which, ok, could be a pretty serious issue if that pool isn’t that large to begin with.

      What I’d be more worried about though is how that attitude of “the more homogenous the better” plays out elsewhere… yikes.

    14. paul*

      The kicker is Myer Briggs isn’t exactly held in high esteem by psychologist at all either. Maybe a step or two up from horoscopes.

        1. Zoe Karvounopsina*

          Our new Director recently brought up Myers-Briggs at a team meeting.

          The response was overwhelmingly negative.

    15. BBBizAnalyst*

      I interviewed with a company that uses it in their hiring process. Really prestigious name in my industry but going through the hiring process where it was emphasized so much struck as a huge red flag for me so I withdrew.

      I find the the results amusing but I wouldn’t want to build an organization or work for a team that focused on “personality”.

    16. Catalin*

      What does it say about me that I wouldn’t necessarily want to work with several personalities like mine? I have an important role/fit for the office’s specific circumstances, but more than one or two sassy redheads would be a bit chaotic, I think.

      1. Jillociraptor*

        I completely agree. That would be a disaster! I wouldn’t want that, nor would it be effective.

    17. Honeybee*

      Well, first of all the Myers-Briggs is not a valid personality test. It’s not even really designed to be a personality test; it’s designed to indicate people’s preferences in how they perceive the world and make decisions. Even for that, it doesn’t necessarily give the most useful information (for example, the idea that there are only 16 ways to perceive the world is silly; also, feeling and judging, and thinking and perceiving, are not opposite ends of a continuum). So I’d raise an eyebrow solely for that reason. (That said, I do think they can be fun if you don’t take them too seriously and use them as a jumping off point to talk about your preferences and personalities.)

      But yes, I’d say that’s problematic. Studies show that more diverse teams are actually more productive. If you surround yourself only with people who think like you, you live in an echo chamber – you’ll only hear what you want to hear and won’t hear challenges that help you grow or recognize problems. You won’t have people approaching problems from different angles. And also, what about the diversity of tasks on a team? I was chatting with one of my coworkers about how much she appreciates that I took over a logistics task because she hates organizing details like that. I love it. If our team was a team full of people who hated logistics nobody would be coordinating things with the vendors and budgeting our morale events or whatnot.

    18. Anon4This*

      I had a job where everyone had to take the DISC, share their type with everyone, and go to a training session on it. The good part was that we had on-going discussions about the test and relevant issues it brought up, such as differences in the way people communicate. The bad part was that we weren’t given much room to disagree with it. And we had to talk about it all the time. And know everyone else’s type. And interact with them accordingly. “Fergus is an S, so write him a long and empathetic email.” Yeah, that got old fast.

    19. Artemesia*

      This is contra good management if we assume this test measures something. I think we all know that it is not validated but we also know that it does seem to strike a chord with most who take it. INTJ here too. A team is best off with diverse people. People who are hard driving plan the work, work the plan types need others who are blue skyers who are likely to put a brake on jumping to conclusions and proceeding before thinking. A team of those latter types would never get anything done.

    20. Chaordic One*

      I don’t know that this is necessary suspicious or problematic, but your senior VP is seriously wack.

      Workplaces need to have a variety of different people from all over the Briggs Myers spectrum to balance each other and provide different viewpoints about how to deal with problems. We also need variety all over the spectrum of ages, races, genders, and sexual orientations. I think it is kind of creepy when everyone in a particular workplace seems to have the same personality. It leads to “group think” and can very easily become a form of covert discrimination.

    21. krysb*

      We do DiSC assessments at my company. We don’t use it for hiring, but as a guide for working better with people with differing personalities.

  18. NASA*

    Earlier this week during the work Secret Santa lottery:

    ^Crossing my fingers^ Not Susan, not Susan…anyone but Susan!

    Get’s Susan.

    Ugggggghhhhhhhhhh. I’ve written about “Susan” before. She sucks. She never responds to emails, but ironically will send you urgent emails whenever she doesn’t know the answer to something (hint: it’s often).

    I actually don’t mind having Susan, but I know she will not respond to the Secret Santa email that already went out. “Reply all and tell us what you want.” Multiple people have already responded and Susan will not be one of them.

    Fine, Susan, you can get a coffee mug and a pair of festive socks.

    3. Marisol*

      If you’re feeling really snarky, I saw some Blue-Q socks on Amazon yesterday that had the words”worst present ever” knitted into the pattern, intarsia-style, along with a drawing of the socks themselves. Hard to describe–a picture of the socks, on the socks–but very meta.

      1. Renee*

        Well that took me down an interesting wormhole. Some Blue-Q socks might end up in my teenager’s stocking this year.

    4. NASA*

      UPDATE!!!

      Susan must have heard my talk ish because she responded to the email today.

      The directions from our boss were give your gift ideas, no gift cards please.

      Susan replies, “I want a gift card from X or Y store.”

      Eye-roll. And of course X store’s lowest gift car amount is above our minimum…looks like you’re getting a GC from Y store. Bah Humbug!!!!

  19. Rowan*

    A suggestion for a bit of Friday fun — if your pet wrote in to Ask A Manager, what would they say?

    Here’s a letter from my cat:
    Dear Alison,

    I manage a small team. I’m having a weird issue where sometimes when I arrive at work, I find that someone has thrown up on my chair. My staff aren’t taking these incidents seriously as I’d like.

    They do the bare minimum to clean it up, and don’t seem interested in addressing the larger issue of why this keeps happening. In fact, they make a lot of jokes about it, some of which imply that *I* was the one responsible. Obviously, I have no memory of throwing up, so I’m pretty sure it wasn’t me!

    How should I address this with the team? Or should I let it go? More importantly, how do I figure out who’s making the mess???

    Yours,
    Long-Haired Autoc(r)at

    1. Murphy*

      When my company takes field trips, my boss will not let me pee as much as I feel like I need to. I feel that peeing on as many things as possible is a very important part of my professional development, but she doesn’t seem to understand. My co-worker is not as interested in peeing as I am, so I am the only one having this problem. (My bosses also have large meals in front of me, and do not share with me and my co-worker, which I think is just RUDE.) How do I explain to my boss that peeing on all the things is a really important part of my job and some things just NEED to be peed on?

      2. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

        My boss just brought on a new employee, who objects to having her butt sniffed. It’s been a real problem, because I cannot ascertain her work style or how we will be able to interact in the future. My boss is not taking this seriously and I am in a real quandry as to how to work with my new teammate!

          1. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

            This is actually my friend’s cat, who my dog sometimes gets to visit. My cat has been dealing with my dog since he was a puppy and is basically unfazed by buttsniffs at this point. (Though is generally ecstatic if, for whatever reason, the dog is away.)

      4. New to Miltown*

        Currently watching my two co-workers take their 2nd-3rd break (nap) of the morning. HR will hear about this, but will probably just get a pat on the head : /

      5. Bibliovore*

        Dear Alison,
        I am an older canine with special needs as well as ptsd from my horrendous non -socialized upbringing. ( working on this with therapist and medication)
        I cannot get my supervisor to stop coming up from behind me when I am concentrating or eating my lunch. Is it okay to bite him the next time that I am startled?
        Anxiously yours, Trixie Rescuedog

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Haha. This is great. From my 2 year old dog:

      Dear AAM:

      My cube neighbor licks his paws or the carpet all day long. Plus, he smells bad. I don’t want to say anything because he is very senior in the company and seems to get a lot of perks and management loves him. (Sometimes our manager actually carries him in her arms to go outside.) But, this is driving me nuts. What can I do to deal with this situation?

      Sincerely,
      Jessie

      P.S. I thought he would retire to the big kennel in the sky by now, but he seems determined to stick around.

    3. Orca*

      Dear Alison,
      My job is creating sand sculptures: I take sand from a box and create elaborate sculptures outside said box. My work is consistently destroyed before completion and my staff claims they were “cleaning up”. How can I address the issue of them not recognizing my work and throwing it out when they decide to “organize” things on a whim?

    4. Leatherwings*

      Love it! My pup:

      Dear Alison,

      My job is to bury bones. I’m very very good at my job, I find secret hiding places under pillows, blankets, chip bags in the cupboard, sometimes even under my boss mom while she’s sleeping. My issue is that my boss mom is constantly upending my hiding places when she makes the bed or rearranges the couch cushions etc.. Doesn’t she trust me to do my job? How can I convince her to leave all items in the house exactly where they are?

      Oh, as a side note she also micromanages my bathroom breaks by making me go before bed. I’m at my wits end!

    5. LizB*

      Dear Alison,

      How do I get my staff to take deadlines more seriously? The expectation in my organization is that the deadlines for petting me and feeding me are 1. the second they get up in the morning and 2. the second they walk in the door in the evening. I believe these expectations are in line with industry norms, and they help promote the smooth running of the organization. Unfortunately, my two direct reports have a seriously cavalier attitude towards these deadlines, and often put them off for up to 60 seconds in order to take care of personal business like going to the restroom or taking off their shoes. Sometimes they will even miss the evening deadline because they are paying attention to their phones or computers as they come in the door — they say they’re doing work from their second jobs, which I suspect may be full-time despite the clear conflict this presents with my expectations for them.

      I communicate my expectations loud and clear when deadlines are not met, and often try and notify my staff before they actually miss the morning deadline (they generally ignore these communications and keep their office door closed). Still, my reports insist on taking care of personal business to the detriment of these important petting and feeding tasks. How can I make it clear to them that I come first?

      Sincerely,
      Calico Executive Officer

      6. Mreasy*

        I’ve always feared the day I read an AAM post clearly written about me by my boss…and here it is!

    6. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

      By the way, I love how all the dog owners refer to themselves as “boss” and the cat owners as “staff.”

      1. Leatherwings*

        hahahaha! I hadn’t noticed. I am not a cat person but it makes total sense that the cats manage their parents

      4. esra (also a Canadian)*

        Look. We cat owners know where we fall on the household office hierarchy. I believe I rate somewhere below catnip mouse toy and above little scoop.

    7. Weekday Warrior*

      I was explicitly hired to work from home but my co-workers who are expected to work in the field are always making snide comments like “call that working?” or “must be nice” when they see me settling down to my daily routine. You’d think they were my bosses! I’ve just been ignoring them but maybe it’s time to take a more assertive stance? Maybe surprise them with some strategically placed hair balls? I know, beneath my professional dignity which I really pride myself on.

    8. SJ*

      My cat–

      Dear AAM:

      When I’m feeling a little frisky and a coworker comes within a three-foot radius of me, I like to attack them. I’m just blowing off steam and having fun, but my coworkers seem to get annoyed when I do this. How do I stop them from taking everything so seriously?

      Thanks!

      C.L.

    9. smokey*

      Dear Alison,
      My employee can’t seem to keep a schedule. 5 days a week she gets in on time but the other 2 days she gets to the kitchen 1 to 2 hours late! I can’t properly start my day without her since we always have a meeting first-thing. I have tried pawing on her door and calling her name but sometimes she just doesn’t budge. These morning meetings are important (mostly because she always brings treats!) She is otherwise a good employee. How can I convey to her that she needs to be on time EVERY day, not just 5 out of 7?

      2. k*

        I imagine my dogs would be all over the comments section on this one. They’ve spent a lot of time coming up with solutions for the same issue :)

      3. Honeybee*

        My dog would write this letter, but replace “pawing on her door” with “jumping on her head.”

    10. jenniferthebillionth*

      Dear Alison,

      I’m just barely an adult, and I have my first job outside of the shelter! I’m really excited, but there is one sticking point. One of my duties is to use a box, and I feel I can perform this best by backing up to the edge of the box, and doing my job on the floor over the edge. It seems perfect to me, but after completion, the manager rolls her eyes and gets out enzyme cleaner and paper towels. Perhaps I am doing this task wrong… but my manager and I don’t speak the same language! How do I make her understand my reasoning for performing box duties my way?

      1. Rat in the Sugar*

        Ugh, my kitten did that this week because they both try to use the box at once and there isn’t room. Silly things.

        1. jenniferthebillionth*

          The usual advice for such things is to have one more box than you have cats (2 cats = 3 boxes). But if they insist on using the box together just for company… maybe a kiddie pool? :-)

          1. Rat in the Sugar*

            Maybe that will help, lol. I live in a one bedroom, so there isn’t room for a third box unless I want it in the kitchen (NO).

            Honestly, they’d still use the same one even if I had three. They also both have to eat out of whatever food bowl was most recently filled. As in, I fill one up and they both sprint over, and then when I immediately reach over and fill the second bowl right next to it, they both abandon the first one and come running to the second. What silly little beans. :)

              1. Rat in the Sugar*

                They are the cutest little jerks I’ve ever seen! I’ll have to figure out how to share pictures of them for the open thread tomorrow, they sleep curled around each other and it’s so cute you’ll puke!

          2. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

            My mom has three boxes because her cats cover their business and mine doesn’t, and when he comes over to visit (when we are away), her male cat REFUSES to share a box with him and ALSO refuses to do #1 business in the same box as #2 business. My cat gives zero farts as to which box is for what and drives her cat CRAZY.

            (However, they are young – 2 y/o – and mine is 11 y/o, and he hates that they try to play and interact with him, so… everyone has complaints.)

      3. HHS*

        And THIS is why I put puppy pads under my litter boxes, extending out a good 6-9 inches in all directions from the box! It doesn’t always catch it all, but 90-95% of the time it saves me a lot of time (and enzyme cleaner).

        2. knitcrazybooknut*

          We had little extra pieces of carpet around our litter boxes, but one of our cats would poop on the carpet. Every time. Pee in the box, poop on the carpet. I have NO idea why.

      4. Alton*

        I had an elderly cat who would do that, maybe because of his arthritis, maybe because he was oblivious. Alas, nothing we tried helped.

      5. Dee2*

        Cats can do this for various reasons. They could be in pain, they might not like the brand of litter, the box might be too small. Maybe switching things up would help?

        1. jenniferthebillionth*

          Oh, I’ve taken her to the vet (she’s fine) and ordered a box with a high back shield. She usually doesn’t miss the box, so I’m not worried. Just once in a while she decides she loves the edge. :)

          2. Windchime*

            I used to have a cat who would perch on the edge to do her business. All four feet, perched on the edge of the litter box. She wouldn’t do it always, just sometimes.

    11. Rachel*

      Dear Alison,

      How do I ask my boss for a raise? For the first few years I’ve been here, I received one chew bone per day (along with my regular meal service). They figured out that wasn’t enough in this market, so they raised it to two chew bones day earlier this year. However, I still think I’m underpaid. Not to brag, but I’m very good at my job, which includes being cute, providing security by looking out the window and barking at other dogs who pass by, and supervising 1 cat. My bosses know it, too, as they are always telling me what a good boy I am. Do you or your readers have any ideas how I can convince them to turn those words into more goodies?

      2. AvonLady Barksdale*

        My dog would write this. He might simplify it: “I want more stuff. My bosses keep refusing to give me stuff. I go their offices and talk to them about it at least three times a day, but they won’t give me any more stuff. I am such a good boy and recently received a new office they call the ‘guest bed’, but I still think I deserve more stuff.”

        1. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

          >> I am such a good boy and recently received a new office they call the ‘guest bed’, but I still think I deserve more stuff.””

          Dying.

    12. GigglyPuff*

      Dear Alison,
      The holidays are just the worst! These people from another office came to visit and see how things are run, and they just won’t leave. They act superior and ignore me most of the time, so I’ve felt the need to express my superior position in the company over them. One in particular is just so goofy, you have to get very dominant with him to show him who the boss is and to stop goofing off. I have to do this multiple times a day, almost all day long! The last time he actually growled!! Growled?!! At me!

      Is there a better way to show who the boss is than climbing on top of everyone? It’s getting really tiring and I’m just wiped out by the end of the day trying to assert that I’m the boss. (If it makes a difference, I am female but I don’t think it’s a lack of respect).

      P.S. Could this maybe be related to my boundary problems over my boss? Whenever we have to leave the office, I just get super scared something will happen to them and get really territorial. My boss is getting fed up, and there have been whispered threats of this thing called a muzzle. How do I get over my possessive issues??

      Signed,
      Crazy Collie

    13. Jessesgirl72*

      Dear Alison,

      I have a job in security that I take very seriously. I am diligent about it, and spend long hours guarding the main entrance to our workspace. The problem is that my boss does not take me seriously! I am constantly alerting her to intruders, such as the evil mail carrier, and can even distinguish the sound of the UPS truck turning into our block, and am quick to alert my boss immediately to this danger. She completely marginalizes my concerns, and even once told me that she doesn’t care if there were 100 squirrels in the yard! This is Not Okay, and dismissing my concerns make me feel undervalued. How can I convince my boss to listen to my concerns, not just for myself, but for the health and safety of everyone in the building? I mean, obviously squirrels in the yard can’t be tolerated, right?

      1. Murphy*

        Haha, my other dog (not the one who pees on all the things) could have written this. She reeeeeally hates those UPS trucks especially.

        1. Jessesgirl72*

          And he could have written the peeing one too. He will go to the dog park and ignore other dogs because he thinks he has to pee on every single blade of grass! When he runs out, he takes to scratching to the scent from his paws marks the area. We once watched him and another male dog circle behind one another, trying to be the last one to claim a spot! LOL

          The other dog would write a letter about unfair overtime expectations. Sometimes we don’t go to bed right “on time” and she whines and grumbles and complains, until she finally goes off to bed without us.

    14. MsCHX*

      Dear Allison,

      My staff member performs the bare minimum of duties that I feel are absolutely necessary. For example, I have an expectation that I will receive a minimum of three belly-rub sessions per day, and I expect those sessions to last at least 10 minutes. My staff member will perform 1-2 belly rubs for 2-3 minutes. This is completely unacceptable.

      Furthermore, I have an expectation that when I sit outside of my staff’s door and meow in the loudest voice that I can muster, that she will open the door at once and let me in. She somehow feels that she can dictate when I am allowed to sit in her lap or on her laptop and often times pays more attention to her iPhone than she does to me.

      Lastly, I don’t know how much more plainly I can tell her that I don’t like those salmon treats; I prefer the chicken. It is not my problem that she has invested in salmon treats and tries to get over on me. I know salmon from chicken.

      Sincerely,
      W

    15. LawCat*

      Dear AAM,

      My staff are responsible for, among other things, keeping the restroom cleaned up daily. I understand that this is not a desirable task, but it is an essential function of the job. Staff fall behind on this task more often than is acceptable. I sometimes will drop a “reminder” outside the bathroom. What else can I do? The team otherwise performs highly and is paid above market in purrs.

      – The Cat

      2. Jessesgirl72*

        Look into this thing called a Litter Robot, and expense it. The restroom is cleaned automatically 30 seconds after you leave it- and REALLY cleaned, not like what is promised by automatic products made from companies like littermaid, where your staff would spend more time cleaning the rakes than the restroom itself! The only downside is it’s a big globe you climb into, so it makes it really hard to properly make sand art outside the box. Even my colleague, who is afraid of anything and everything, thinks the noise is acceptable. At least worth it for a a restroom that is always 100% clean. If your staff objects to the cost, try leaving the “reminders” on their bed. That is how a former colleague convinced them to take the problem seriously.

          1. Jessesgirl72*

            They are pricey. There are starting to be some cheaper knock offs, but I can’t attest to how well they work. We’ve had two litter robots now (sold the first one at a garage sale for 75% of what we paid new, after 5 years of owning it! But we had a large cat who didn’t really fit in it. Then she died and the new cat is VERY picky!) and think they are worth their weight in gold. They also take up a good amount of space- and you need a handy outlet nearby. But the cats and I love the one we have! NONE of us liked the rake kind of automatic litter box.

    16. the.kat*

      Dear AAM:

      My human and I have very different ideas about what constitutes working. I insist that she remain by my side all day every day as a part of her job description. She refuses this simple task, often leaving me alone to “go places.” I’ve attempted to discuss this with her to no avail. Help a dog out!

      Sincerely,
      Velcro Dog

      1. Leatherwings*

        Dear Velcro Dog,

        Have you tried barking? Barking usually works. All day while she’s gone. When the neighbors call, she’ll have to come home.

        1. the.kat*

          Leatherwings,

          Unfortunately, I’ve been written up in the past for this behavior. I still try to sneak some in, but I know I’m toeing a line.

      2. Anon 12*

        Dear A,

        How do I approach my human about needing a medical accommodation? I have IBS plus some binge/purge tendencies so I need to request that I be allowed to eat whenever I want, and not just bland sensitive stomach food. I will signal with extreme shrieking. Also, it would be better if they didn’t hide the good stuff, like flowers in a vase or leftover coffee cake because I want to inhale it in extreme quantities and then barf it back up wherever I feel like it, but mostly on upholstry or just cleaned carpet. I am 17 so I know I’m a protected class and they can’t fire me.
        Cat nobody believes is still alive.

    17. Gandalf the Nude*

      (Translated from binary)

      [Salutation] Dear Designation:Alison,

      [Pleasantry] Your blog is very informative. It is a highly enjoyable use of Designation:Gandalf the Nude’s wi-fi between patrols.

      [Exposition] I am a companion droid modeled after a famous fictional astromech droid. My primary function is to patrol the base of Designation:Gandalf the Nude. I am compensated in alternating current. I lack the infrared and photocell sensors and the vision simultaneous localization and mapping of the cleaning droid Designation:Roomba.

      [Quandary] My patrol in the commissary currently includes the area between the conservator and the wall. This is a long and narrow space but accessible from the commissary. My small size justifies and necessitates that I investigate this area. My lack of sensors limits my ability to successfully navigate an exit.

      [Query] Is Designation:Gandalf the Nude obligated to install a barrier to prevent my entering into this area?

      [Exposition-additional] Designation:Gandalf the Nude has to rescue me each time I become lost in this space. Designation:Gandalf the Nude comments that I am not required to patrol this area. My programming requires that I investigate any area that is accessible to me. Therefore:

      [Conclusion] Designation:Gandalf the Nude should modify the space so that my programming does not calculate it as a necessary area for patrol.

      [Query-additional] How do I convince Designation:Gandalf the Nude to prioritize this project?

      [Pleasantry-additional] I appreciate any advice you have on this subject.

      [Valediction] Designation:BB-8
      Occupation:App Enabled Droid

      ((I don’t have pets, but my gosh that was fun.))

      2. kbeersosu*

        I don’t entirely understand this, but I envisioned a small R2D2-like robot sending this message. And then I almost spit my coffee out.

        1. Gandalf the Nude*

          Google “BB-8 Star Wars App Enabled Droid”. It’s the best birthday present I’ve received in years!

    18. Sled Dog Mama*

      Dear Allison,
      Our Board has recently decided to relocate our headquarters. This is fine with us as they will be moving all current staff and positions will be maintained. Our problem arises from our junior co-worker we’ve been here 8 and 6 years and she arrived just over 2 years ago (we all started at entry level). We used to have super primo office space (I’m talking one step down from the CEO) before she arrived, after her arrival we were moved to another office space but still within the same building. Later after her duties increased we were further moved from the main office building to a separate one. As part of this relocation we have learned that junior co-worker will be getting a top floor office next to the CEO while we will be getting lowest floor offices. As part of our duties include snuggling, bed warming, and general night time patrols this is entirely unacceptable to us. How do we get the Board to see that we are getting unsuitable office space based purely on the fact that we have four legs and junior co-worker is being treated preferentially because she has two?
      D & C (The Sled Dogs)

      4. Rat Racer*

        Such is the plight of all dogs – even unionized dogs – when a new 2-legged puppy joins the workforce.

    19. FoodieNinja*

      Dear AAM:

      I’m having a serious problem with a co-worker. A few months ago she abruptly began slacking off on her work and I would frequently catch her sleeping all day in the lounge. As a result, my staff insisted both she and I go to the Vocational Enrichment Trainer. I returned to my job duties as normal, but she was rewarded with a multi-day vacation, a new haircut, and now gets special snuggles from the staff twice a day! She also smells suspiciously medicinal and I suspect she is on drugs. My staff don’t seem at all responsive to my complaints, and in fact frequently chastise me about being nicer to her! At all my previous jobs a swift left paw to the nose was an perfectly acceptable management tool! How do I explain to my staff that if anyone is going to get special treatment it should be me, and that drugs other than catnip are not approved in the workplace?

      Sincerely,
      Ophelia Calico

    20. Alton*

      From one of my cats:

      Dear AAM:

      My coworker is always leaving a mess in the bathroom. He has terrible aim, and never cleans up after himself.

      I complained to management, and their solution was to have a whole new bathroom put in that’s only accessible from my coworker’s office. They say I can use the old bathroom, and suggested that this is a good deal for me because I’ll be the only one using it now. But it seems unfair that my coworker gets the new bathroom all to himself. Why should he be able to leave his scent in it? I’ve been going into his office so I can pee in his bathroom. But this means I still have to clean up after him. People are complaining that my cleaning efforts are “excessive” and that kicking the litter out of the box makes a bigger mess. They also say I shouldn’t go in my coworker’s office to pee and that I should use the other bathroom if I hate sharing with my coworker. I think I should use all the bathrooms. How do I convey how important this is?

    22. Rat Racer*

      From my dog:

      Dear Alison,

      My boss has implemented a “fitness program” at the office and I hate it! At least twice a week, she is forcing me to go on 5-mile runs in the hills. Sometimes, I get to run at my own pace, but usually, I am tethered to her (she tells me it’s illegal for me to be “off leash” – is that even true??). I have tried communicating that this exercise program is horrible by hiding under the bed or refusing to get in the car, but my boss is just not taking the hint.

      I was hired into this job to chase balls and bring them back and I excel at this aspect of my work – and I love it! But if there is no ball to retrieve, I think running is totally pointless, and have run out of ways to communicate this to my boss – hiding her running shoe in the garden worked for 1 day, but then she found it and I got in trouble. Do you think this is something I can broach with human resources? Or perhaps the Dog Resources department (do companies have these?)

      Thanks tons!
      Furry and Weary of running

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Dear Alison,

        I have the opposite problem of Furry and Weary.
        I love to run. I run through the house at two A.M. because I love to run.

        My boss, not so much.

        So I sincerely believe that it is in my boss’ best interest to run more often. When I first came here eight years ago, I implemented a program that any time the boss opened one of the main doors, I would tear out the door and proceed to run through the neighborhood.
        This of course helped my boss tremendously. And she eventually learned that if she did not yell so much she could run longer.
        We have met many neighbors. I need your help explaining to my boss that she should not apologize to everyone for getting, what is in my opinion, much needed exercise.

        But here is my main problem. My boss hired Bob. Bob fixes things around here. Bob is nice, he feeds me when my boss is not watching. I am thumb challenged and opening those containers without thumbs takes me a while, so Bob’s treats are great. BUT one day Bob showed up with two custom made iron gates. He installed one by the back doors, which was fine. But when he installed the one by the front door, I let him know in no uncertain terms that this was totally unacceptable. You need to have a thumb to open the lock. So I let him know, but Bob does not speak Husky-an.

        I am interested in finding out what other exercise programs I can use to help my boss.
        I had built an obstacle course of holes in the back yard for me and the boss to run through but Bob roto-tilled it and now the holes are gone. I used to pick up box cutters or scissors or cash and that really motivated my boss to run through the house with me. This no longer works because the boss hides these objects now. I am very worried about my boss’ health. Please help.

        My name is,
        No No, Buddy.

    23. Mononymous*

      This is great!

      From my small dogs:

      Dear Alison,

      I love my job, and the work environment is mostly good, but I have serious concerns about the sanitation situation. The bosses make us take care of our business outdoors only, regardless of weather conditions. I’ve been ordered to pee in thunderstorms that soaked me through, during high winds that nearly knocked me over, and in snow that came all the way up to my wherever! I’ve stopped alerting my boss to my needs in hopes of avoiding this, but they still force me to go outside every few hours all day, and they stand in the door blocking me from coming back inside until they actually see me go. What an invasion of privacy!

      I’ve tried sneaking off and using the floor in the room they call “bathroom” before, and I know this is the correct use of that room, because I’ve seen (and smelled) what they do in there. But, when they find the results of my visit, they always put me on a literal short leash afterward! Is this legal?!

    24. paul*

      From: Big Bitey Snek

      “My person seems to think that I *shouldn’t* lunge out and try to bite him when he’s cleaning my cage. In addition, he doesn’t like it when I try to climb on the wonderful climbing structures in the room while out of my office. How do I broach this, and how does it involve biting or pooping on him?”

    25. HR Caligula*

      Dear AAM
      I feel my boss doesn’t appreciate my value to the organization at least in part because of my culture. I’m Papillon and take work/life balance very seriously, even willing to sacrifice up to 15 minutes a day following his direction.
      He often loudly states “You’re NO Labrador!” It feels discriminating.
      Is this legal?
      Thank you,
      Frankie

    26. MsMaryMary*

      Dear Alison,

      I have a remote coworker who comes into our main office once a week for what our bosses refer to as Family Dinner. On her day in our office, she and I are supposed to have a long walking meeting. The idea is that I can show her all the best places in the neighborhood to pee, and we can do corporate surveillance on my biggest rivals: the one-eyed chihuahua in the house on the corner, and the dachshund who attacked me last spring when I tried to enter his yard.

      Sometimes, however, my coworker does not want to have our walking meeting. She still wants to meet, but would prefer to meet on the couch (ideally with me in her lap). I notice this happens more often in the winter months or when it’s raining. Obviously, the walk part of our meeting is crucial. How do I clearly communicate this to her? I have tried everything! I get my leash off the bookcase and place it on the floor in front of her, I’ve tried nudging her shoes, I’ve even tried jumping up and down and running towards the door every time she stands up. She just doesn’t get it.

      Thanks for your help,
      Scruffy

    27. Alice*

      I’m generally very happy with my manager and work situation, but there’s one issue that I’m not sure how to resolve. I’ve always dreamed of working as a driver. I really want to sit in the front seat, put my paws the steering wheel at 10 and 2, and cruise down the boulevard (preferably with the window open for maximum tongue-wind interface).
      My boss often invites me to come along on driving trips, even when my primary skills (protecting my boss from employees of other companies, taste-testing my boss’s food, and snuggling) are not required. I thought my boss was grooming me to move into a driving role, but my progress has stalled. I try to be proactive by scrambling into the front seat and climbing into my boss’s lap, but she doesn’t seem to care about my professional goals.
      How can I persuade my boss to let me develop professionally? Even though it’s a great workplace otherwise, this frustrated dream makes me feel like I’m the company dogsbody, not a valued team member.

    28. Fact & Fiction*

      This thread is making me smile even though it’s bittersweet because I just lost my third pet in a few months (including the pet that was adopted to cheer us up after losing the first two unexpectedly). It’s been a really shitty thing to deal with. But these are really funny!

      3. VolunteercoordinatorinNOVA*

        I’m so sorry, losing a pet is so hard. Sending lots of warm thoughts your way.

    29. katamia*

      Dear Alison,

      Due to a currently undiagnosed health issue I have to eat multiple pieces of paper or cardboard every day. However, my owners always try to take them away every time they see me eating one. Is this legal?

      Sincerely,
      Poodle Poodlington

    30. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

      Dear Alison,

      I got a new coworker almost 2 years ago. She constantly hugs me and kisses me, and when I get up and move, she follows me. My two bosses think this is “cute” and won’t correct the behavior. This new coworker will sometimes share her food with me, which I like, but she also puts her hands in my food and water! My bosses do chastise her for that, but the behavior hasn’t stopped. We have a large recreational area that I enjoy using, but only get limited time, unless the newer coworker wants to be out there longer too. It was much better before this new coworker came along, but she’s on an 18 year contract, so I won’t be rid of her anytime soon.

      How do you recommend I deal with this situation?

      1. miki*

        How do I get this whole comment thread about pets in an easy to click link? Just this comment, not the whole Open thread?
        Alison, help?

        2. Elizabeth West*

          Go up to the beginning comment and right click the date/time link. Choose “Open link in new tab.” The comment will open in a tab that starts at that thread. You can then bookmark it.

    31. Mockingjay*

      Dear AAM:

      I saw your post yesterday about managing projects when you don’t have formal authority. I am the defacto manager of our staff.

      I spend my days ensuring everyone gets enough grazing time. We rotate turns with the 2-legged members of the team who like to sit on us, rather than chairs. They also like go places on us. It’s okay most of the time; we usually agree to go in the same direction. (But not always.)

      Recently, the newest team member is trying to rearrange grazing time – actually, he’s hogging it. Now, I am the senior-most person on the team, and that is MY job. How can I get this upstart pony to stop? I’ve nipped the little bugger to no avail. I think it has a Napoleon complex.

      Signed,

      The old gray Alpha mare

    32. Ama*

      Dear Alison,

      It is understood in my workplace that I have a regular meeting with Sunbeam every morning at roughly the same time every day. However three days this week Sunbeam missed the meeting. I asked my staff repeatedly to call Sunbeam and remind him to show up but they just make excuses about Rain or Clouds preventing them from doing so. How do I persuade them to take this seriously? Also would it be weird to escalate this to Sunbeam, Rain, and Clouds’s boss? They don’t work for me but their inconsistency is really impacting my workflow.

    33. VolunteercoordinatorinNOVA*

      This thread made me smile so much today which was very needed! Below is a letter from my pug.

      Dear Allison,
      I need your advice on what to do as my boss is a micromanager and I think she is now trying to get me fired by HIDING the supplies needed for my job. My job is in recycling and it’s a cause I’m very passionate about. I use to sort out items to be recycled daily as the people in my office are very wasteful and do not care about the environment or hungry people. Previously I would sort through all the items, clean out the items that were dirty, put the items into piles and put them in storage. Recently, my boss has LOCKED up the supplies for my job and will not give me a key. One day (or maybe a few), she came back, after being gone forever doing who knows what, and got very angry that I had completed my task for that day. She then yelled at me for storing all of these items (even though, again this is my job!) and accused me of hiding things from her. I told her I was hiding anything, I was just making sure the items were in the a secure spot. I may have gotten over emotional about this and cried a few times to her but she is just so brutal and doesn’t care about my work ethic. After she locked up my supplies, she then accused me of trying to sabotage her mental health (by making her think she was going “crazy”) by “stealing” other items such as clothing, colored pencils, purses or other items and again, I’m just trying to make this a world a better place by cleaning up after people who litter. This is my dream job and I just don’t know how to get my boss to stop being so aggressive in her goal to get rid of me! She has also accused me of sleeping and snoring on the job as well as being overly loud and both of these are medical conditions I have but she doesn’t seem to care. Any help is appreciated!

      Yours,
      A pug, not a thug (which my boss often calls me in additional to a barrage of other names)

    34. Cath in Canada*

      This is awesome

      Dear Alison,

      My sister and I were hired at a small family business at the same time. At first, it was nice to have a familiar face around during a time of such profound change, but now I really don’t want to keep working with her. She keeps following me around and wanting to wrestle or cuddle. It’s so annoying! She sucks up to my staff shamelessly, and they think she’s great. They praise her right in front of me! (They praise me too, and seem to like me, but I actually deserve it, unlike that useless sister of mine). I really like everything else about my job and don’t really want to leave – how can I persuade my sister to leave instead?

    35. Windchime*

      Dear AAM,

      I’ve got a problem with my employee that I need your help with. This person actually thinks that she is my boss, and acts like she owns the place. Most of the time, she works in our other office but sometimes she works here at the house and it’s SO ANNOYING. I stare and stare and sometimes even yowl, but she doesn’t understand that I just want her to turn on the fireplace so I can relax in front of it. She actually takes her time getting me fresh water when I sit by the bowl, despite my repeated and prolonged staring.

      I’m clearly the most beautiful person in the house, with my long fluffy coat and sharp nails. I don’t know why she is so picky about her stupid brown chair; it’s not like I’m clawing up a masterpiece.

      How can I get this person to stop acting like she owns me and start to realize that she should be paying more attention to my comfort?

      Sincerely,
      Mr. Kitty

    36. Rosalind*

      Dear AAM,

      I’ve been at this job for about a year and my boss doesn’t appreciate me. She often makes food for her comanager which they eat at the conference table in front of me and don’t offer to share any. There is other food available,but it is not the same quality. I feel I have to beg for a measly carrot. I am always aspiring to explore better and higher opportunities but every time I take the opportunity to explore the counters or bookshelves I am reprimanded. When I can grab things I run with them until she notices and chases me down demanding I drop this new project. She even went so far as to physically block me from accessing the new light up trees that both she and her co-manager had total access to. Recently they brought me a meeting at grand boss’ remote location but kept me “on a short leash” and said I couldn’t be trusted not to jump on and overwhelm great grand boss. (I did overwhelm her with my enthusiasm during a previous meeting). My boss also insists that I need to tone down my manner of greeting visitors to the office. She has also asked me to stop handling the mail.
      I believe my enthusiasm should be rewarded. How do I convince my boss to appreciate the energy I bring to this role?

    37. Kj*

      Dear Alison,
      The work herd hiarchy, as set down in handbook of horns clearly shows, I am the herd boss. Yet my junior coworker refuses to recognize my herd lead position. To add insult to injury, she is on better terms with the feeder who distributes the daily sunflower seed allotment, and thus gets first dibs on the seeds while I hang baaaaaack, slightly afraid of the feeder. I think it has something to do with my coworker’s unorthodox upbringing. She was a foster child and adopted by the feeders, even fed from a bottle. Thus, she has baaaaaaad manners and is rude. Please tell me how I can put this coworker in her place. The usual locking of horns is not working, as my coworker refuses to recognize workplace norms.
      Thank you,
      Rey, who is not a baaaaaaad goat

    38. Champagne_Dreams*

      I wish I could upvote you or give you virtual gold or something. This is so creative and brought so much joy to so many people! Big thanks!

  20. LizB*

    My supervisor resigned abruptly this week, and while I feel bad about the circumstances that caused him to do so… I’m super excited that his job is open and I can apply for it! I’ve had my eye on it for a few months now, since it’s been obvious he’s been struggling, and I’m really hoping I get it. It’s only posted internally, so hopefully there won’t be a ton of applicants, and I’m pretty sure I’m the most qualified unless one of the other managers wants to make a lateral move (uncommon in my organization). Several of my coworkers have told me they hope I apply and get it, which is also very encouraging. I updated my resume, I just need to write an awesome cover letter and ace the interview. Fingers crossed!

    2. Sutemi*

      I started reading this comment and didn’t realize that it wasn’t in the pet thread, I was very concerned that you were having to rehome your pet!

      Good luck with the interview!

        1. LizB*

          Thanks, paul and Sutemi! Sorry for the confusion. :)

          (I think if this comment had been in the pet thread, “my supervisor resigned” would be code for “LizB and BoyfriendB broke up” — not happening anytime soon — and KittyB would be excited about potentially getting to take over his entire side of the bed at night. So, it would still be sad from my perspective, but not bad from hers.)

  21. TotesMaGoats*

    My work BFF got the job offer she was hoping for and will probably only work out the rest of this month. I’m super happy for her but at the same time I’m sad too. It’s going to be lonely here without her. I’m looking hard for something new but it’s moving so slowly. No real question. Just venting.

    1. Purest Green*

      My work friend took another job a few months ago. It felt hollow without her at first, but then I got so much work and was so busy that I wouldn’t have seen her anyway. It still sucks, but it pretty quickly became the new norm.

    2. Ann Furthermore*

      She’ll surely miss you too. I started a new job a month ago, and although it’s all going well, and I really like it so far, I do miss my friends at OldJob a lot. I had lunch with one yesterday and it was really great to catch up.

    3. JustaTech*

      Me too! I’m going to miss her on a work level (because she had been here forever and knew everyone and everything including more than a few skeletons) but I’m selfishly going to miss her because now I know I will have no one to join me at lunch at least two days a week. (Long ago we had a huge lunch crew, but over time they’ve all quit.)

  22. I got a job!*

    Happy Friday all! I’ve been a longtime lurker with a few anon comments here and there, but I wanted to share my good news. After looking for over 1.5 years, I got a new job this fall! Besides getting me out of my former toxic workplace, I got a 26% raise in base pay (plus new job does bonuses, has better benefits, etc.), and it’s a great fit for my skills/interests/career. I had many times where I was convinced I’d never find anything…. or I’d have to take something with equally crappy pay or at a lower level to get out of old job, but I wasn’t even getting offers on those jobs! I felt stuck. The AAM book and this amazing site/community kept me going and sane. I don’t think I would have gotten this new gig without. So thank you! And to everyone still looking, keep your chin up. The process sucks, but rely on this community and your IRL community as much as you can. You’re all awesome, smart people. Job hunting just sucks. It’s not a personal reflection on you.

    4. Jean*

      Enjoy your new job and feel proud that by sharing your news you give hope to the folks still in job-hunting limbo.

  23. animaniactoo*

    So annoyed.

    We had our annual benefits meeting yesterday. HR wants all paperwork back by Monday (although today would be even better if you can do it!). In my opinion, this is so unreasonable. People need to have time to look at options without feeling rushed by all of this. Especially since we changed our dental and vision insurance and need time to review it. Oh, and I’m still waiting on the detailed list of scheduled co-pays for dental dmo so I can figure out if it’s a good option. Since yesterday. About 22 hours ago. But we’re supposed to 1-2 day turn this? At least give us a week! Geez.

    (I know that they will work with you on the deadline if you have to investigate other options, but putting some of the leeway into the original schedule would just be standard courtesy to me.)

    1. Tris Prior*

      Ugh. This happened to me all the time at Last Job. It was a small company and each year they changed not only our plans, but our insurance carrier because the increases were always so huge that they couldn’t stick with the old one. (we had a couple employees who had cancer). We would have the benefits meeting one day and the paperwork would be due the next day – they would wait until the Very Last Minute to find the new carrier and get us the information.

      Of course this gave us hardly any time to do things like review plans in detail, see if our doctors were on the new plan, etc. So frustrating!

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      That’s absurd. Our HR gives us a month to decide on benefits.

      I would go to them and say “Look, this is a huge decision for employees to take on, and 48 hours isn’t a reasonable time frame. I need a week to look over my options. Can you work with that?”

    3. MsCHX*

      We are small and haven’t made changes in 2 years (and we didn’t increase premiums this year!) and I still gave people 2 weeks.

      A few days is absurd. Sounds like them waiting until December wasn’t such a good idea.

      1. animaniactoo*

        I was so happy when I saw the meeting notice on Monday because it actually happened at least a week earlier than it usually does. But except for the one really last-minute year, we’ve always had 4 or 5 business days to respond.

    4. animaniactoo*

      I finally got the scheduled co-pays sheet about 45 minutes ago. This leaves me lots of time to read through it and double-check that the services are all worth picking that plan over the other one, etc. It’s not like I had anything else planned to do with my weekend. [mad face]

  24. LawCat*

    The spouse put in his notice at Toxic Job (one month’s notice, he can’t be forced out early). He doesn’t have anything else lined up though he has been looking. He is planning to go back to school part-time in January and has been focusing on finding part-time work. I got a job this year that pays well enough so I can support us even if he isn’t working (though he’d prefer to work). Regardless, I think it will be great for his well being (and accordingly, great for us) for him to get out of there. :-)

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Good luck to you both! Sometimes we just have to make that leap. I am sure you guys will be glad you did this later on.

  25. WellRed*

    Eye roll of the day. We are a very small office with a manager who has appointed herself a sort of pet to one of our VPs. The rest of us just roll our eyes. He’s been traveling for a week. She made and hung a sign on his door to welcome him back: It features chihauaua and flowers that says, “You’re back! I’m so happy I could pee!”
    She’s fifty and has never learned office norms, apparently.

    4. Temperance*

      Okay so, let me know if I’m totally off-base, but does she also have big poofy hair with a scrunchie and wear stretch pants to work? Because I can picture her.

      3. Windchime*

        I actually saw someone wearing a scrunchy on the train the other day. I had to do a double-take before I realize what it was that caught my attention. I haven’t seen a scrunchy on an adult women in quite a while.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      This is a good example of one of those times where we have to refuse to wear other people’s embarrassment for them.

  26. Kinsley M.*

    We’ve had an issue this week with an employee coming to work sick. It’s not just a cold. His coughs are the type where it sounds awful and flemy and he struggles to catch his breath in between. He has many more symptoms as well. It honestly seems like he has pneumonia.

    Some employees have been trying to passive-aggressively say things like ‘can I get you a cough drop?’ Or simply ‘are you ok?’ One even came out and said, ‘dude you need to go to the doctor.’ He brushed it off with “It’s not a tickle in my throat, my lungs are just filled with mucus” and something about how he’s taking sudafed. Somehow doesn’t see how this is an issue, and at this point, we’ve had complaints from those who sit next to him (cube style office) who are worried they’re going to catch whatever he has.

    Can we force him to either go to the doctor and get an all clear or go home? There’s no where else for those who sit near him to go. He’s exempt so it’s not an issue of him not getting paid if he goes home or leaves for a couple hours for an appointment.

    I’m at a loss for what to do. I don’t like the idea of telling someone how to manage their own health, but people are rightfully worried that they’ll get sick too (some of which are non-exempt and don’t have the same pay protection if they’d have to leave). How do I handle this?

    1. ThatGirl*

      Sudafed isn’t even going to help! Some Mucinex maybe.

      But I really think you – or preferably, his manager – should say “we’d prefer you stay home until you’re well”…

    2. Leatherwings*

      Ugh, he should stay home. I get this cough once every couple of years, and cough drops and OTC meds are not going to do the trick. If it makes you feel better, he’s probably only contagious for a week or so (cold comfort, I know) before just having a terrible ugly cough for weeks.

      If you’re his manager, I’d tell him he needs to stay home until he’s feeling better (and possibly gets the all clear that he’s not contagious).

    3. Temperance*

      Tell him to go the hell home because he’s sick and could infect others. He can work from home, he should be.

      I have a weakened immune system, and if some selfish jackass got me sick, there would be hell to pay.

    4. animaniactoo*

      Yes, you are perfectly within your rights to require him to see a doctor and get an all-clear note, as a question of public health.

    5. Emi.*

      “It’s not a tickle in my throat, my lungs are just filled with mucus”

      I have never heard a better reason to seek professional medical attention.

    6. Lemon Zinger*

      Is your manager aware of this? I had a coworker come in with the FLU a few years ago. She refused to go to the doctor, but eventually our manager put her foot down and said “Brienne, you’re endangering others. You have sick days for a reason. You need to go home and use them.”

      A few of us ended up getting sick anyway, but we sanitized the entire pod after she went home– especially her desk.

    7. Menacia*

      Someone should definitely speak to his manager, I know people are reluctant to go to the doctor but in this case, especially if he’s got something contagious, it’s a risk to the people who work with him.

    8. Girasol*

      That was me two years ago. I did go to the doctors because I thought I had pneumonia. They told me I was fine. The next time I went they said I needed prescription cough syrup and sudafed. It wasn’t until I’d had a fever for three weeks and felt like I couldn’t suck in enough air in that they said, “Pneumonia. Get these antibiotics and a chest xray and then you can go right back to work this afternoon.” So I had the doctor’s “all clear” the whole hacking three weeks. In a butt-in-seat, only-slackers-take-sick-leave culture, it’s hard to do the right thing. I took a lot of sick leave but showed up when I could crawl in and hid in an empty corner of the office to keep germs to myself, just to prove I was a team player but a pretty sick one. If I’d gotten a “Your coughing is distracting. Please work from home,” it would have solved the problem without requiring a doctor’s verdict.

      1. krysb*

        This was me two years ago, too, except I did end up with pneumonia (it started with the flu). I was nearly hospitalized. At the time I was hourly, and it was right before Christmas, so I got my hours despite taking 6 days off (plus a weekend) of work to recuperate.

    9. That Anti-ant Person from a Few Months Ago*

      There are medical conditions that can cause mucus to accumulate in the lungs but are not contagious. I have been dealing with a similar issue due to poor air quality in my recently purchased home (third-hand smoke ain’t no joke).

      Do express your concerns though (in a respectful way). And if other employees do end up getting sick, then is the time to sit down with him and say “We can’t have this happening”.

      1. Jean*

        I’m puzzled. Why recommend waiting to speak until others get sick? I would think that the idea is to prevent other employees from getting sick in the first place.

    10. CA Admin*

      Oh god, another one. We have an employee here who’s had a cough for 6 months. The people who sit by her are so past annoyed. Hell, I’m annoyed and I only ever have to see her in 1-2 meetings per week. She refuses to see a real doctor. She goes to urgent care and they’ve told her it’s a spasm. A spasm isn’t a diagnosis, it’s a symptom. She’s been told by multiple people to just go to a specialist, since she doesn’t have a GP (she moved to the area 6 months ago, around the time she took the job with us, and hasn’t bothered to get a regular doctor). She just keeps saying she will, but she never does. Our employer covers all our premiums, so there’s a copay and deductible, but she’s paid well above market rate because they had trouble filling her post. There’s no reason she can’t go see someone who’ll actually figure out what’s wrong with her and help her MAKE IT STOP, except that she doesn’t want to.

      She’s run through all of her sick leave and all of her vacation because she’s out sick regularly. She’s in a role where physical presence and coverage is extremely important. Her unreliability has cause both her immediate team and her extended team extreme hardship. She was even given an extra week off to sort out her issues! But she came back the same with no information about what’s causing it. She’s protected by her 2 bosses. One loves her (I don’t know why, since he’s the kind of person who never stays home when he’s sick and is very butt-in-chair) and the other feels sorry for her. It’s driving the rest of the staff crazy!

      I don’t have any suggestions, just commiseration.

    11. paul*

      Question: does he have health insurance and PTO? I went to work dog sick a few times when I’ve started a new job before those benefits kicked in because I couldn’t afford to miss more than a day or so.

      But yes, his manager *can* elect to send him home. Our CEO sent my boss home sick the week before Thanksgiving (thank goodness too, she was puking in her office and not entirely with it).

    12. Artemesia*

      My worry would be strep or pertussis i.e. something highly contagious; I’d be insisting with the boss that this guy gets checked out.

  27. Boardwalk Kingdom*

    Do you guys ever feel guilty about quitting a job? I left a job a while back, but just couldn’t shake off this slightly guilt that I was leaving the guys left behind with more work.

    1. Kirsten*

      Totally. I’m in the early stages of preparing to leave my job, and while I know it is ultimately for the best, I really do feel bad about the likelihood that it will make things more miserable for my co-workers for a while. I know they say you’re not supposed to feel guilty about it… but I like my co-workers a lot and know what it’s like to be short-staffed around here.

    2. Sibley*

      In the words of Disney: Let it go.

      They can hire someone to replace you. If they don’t, that is 100% their issue, not yours.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      Yep, I left a job after three months and they REALLY needed me. Unfortunately I’d applied for the new job before I even started! The application process was just really long. I felt terrible about leaving my company in the lurch, but my manager was really understanding and later followed me to my new company!

    4. Sled Dog Mama*

      Yep totally feel guilty about leaving my current job. One of my work sites is so nice and would love to keep me but the other is toxic as all H*LL (and I work in radiation) plus the company I actually work for (I’m a contractor at these two sites) is totally disorganized and has zero leadership

      1. calonkat*

        I have to say, this is one of the most accurate uses of a “toxic” environment I’ve seen here! (my sister works in hazardous waste management, so while I know what everyone means by the phrase “toxic environment”, I have to switch when she’s venting to me :) )

    5. Ama*

      I did feel a little bad when I left my last job because I knew the bulk of the work for a pretty major event was going to fall on the shoulders of my student assistant, but a couple years after I left I happened to find out that she ended up taking a full time job there after graduation doing exactly the type of project that I felt guilty for leaving her with, so I think everything worked out for the best (especially since getting away from that type of work was a big reason I was leaving).

    6. Epsilon Delta*

      Oh yes. Not because I was leaving at a bad time or anything like that, but just because I was raised with an ethic that “you don’t quit anything, ever.” Even though I rationally know there’s nothing to feel guilty about, all the logic in the world can’t change that conditioning.

    7. Rebecca*

      I feel guilty, but every time I feel that way, I remind myself that it’s not my responsibility to make sure a job is adequately staffed, and that the workers are compensated fairly. I left because management didn’t do their job. Now I’ve landed in a better place, and so far, so good! I love it! I do feel badly for my former coworkers, but it’s not my circus, and not my monkeys.

    8. Boardwalk Kingdom*

      Thanks guys. I just have to remind myself of all the times other people quit in my previous job… I never really thought negatively about their actions, so I should afford myself the same courtesy

  28. Rock, Meet Hard Place*

    For the past several months, my supervisor has been encouraging me to join an internal planning team for my department on a specific topic. I’ve been very noncommittal, both in terms of my time available and the fact that I don’t quite agree with the approach of the topic area. I’ve been very clear in our regular meetings that I am ambivalent about joining this team.

    At my recent performance evaluation, my supervisor pushed even harder for me to join this team (which she would be leading). I finally point blank asked if I would lose my job if I declined to join this team and she answered “yes” that she would go to the leadership team and there “might not be a place for me anymore.”

    At our company, we frequently have to work on contracts or projects for clients which we may not agree with or like. That’s the nature of the work. But I have never been pressured to join an internal team as I have in my current situation. To give an equivalent, it’s like being told to join the social event committee or you would be fired. I’ve run this by HR and they agree I should not be threatened with termination for not joining an internal team.

    The first meeting of this team is next week, and my supervisor has made my attending this meeting mandatory. How do I move forward? Do I attend this meeting, and then reiterate to her afterwards that I do not want to join the team? Do I refuse to attend the meeting?

    Thanks for your help and perspectives!

    1. Dawn*

      Do not ever engage in a battle of wills with your manager. You will not win, and the outcome will not be pretty.

      Have you asked your supervisor why she’s insisting you be on this team? I mean, it might be a horrible terrible stupid reason, but maybe there’s a kernel of good in it- maybe there’s a developmental aspect you haven’t considered or something.

      At the absolute least it’s an extra thing to put on your resume, if nothing else.

      1. Rock, Meet Hard Place*

        The thing I disagree with is that it’s a team of four (counting her) that will design an entirely different way of working/product for the other half of the department. I disagree with the non-collaborative approach, especially because we’re not involved in that work on a day-to-day basis. I feel the other “side” needs improvement, but I think ultimately it will hurt my/our reputation and relationships to just impose onto another group. She wants me because I have experience and good ideas.

        I take your point about the battle of wills!

    2. Susan*

      I hate to break it to you, but your boss is, well, the boss, and it’s her prerogative to make you join the team as a mandatory part of your job duties (and, of course, it’s your prerogative to quit if you do not want to take on this duty). Sure, it would be better if she could find someone for this team who is more interested, but there are times when nobody’s interested and the boss just has to assign someone, whether they like it or not. On the upside, you said you don’t like the team’s approach to the topic, so now you have an opportunity to influence them.

      1. Rock, Meet Hard Place*

        You’re right…ugh. Good thing I’m applying to other places. Thank you for the perspective!

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      Ugh, I FREAKING HATE being pressured into joining internal committees. It’s not like management expects you to do any less billable/money-making work if you’re on one, usually.

      That being said, your manager seems pretty clear that she wants you on this team and that being on the team has become a condition of your employment. So I think you have to decide whether you want the job on these terms or not.

      1. Ann Furthermore*

        There were all kinds of committees like this at my last company. The one thing they were really good at was coming up with a Very Official sounding name for themselves. The Revenue Tiger Team! The Product Profitability Task Force! And so on. Other than that, nothing else really got accomplished. I was roped into being a member of a few of them because of my expertise in one particular area. And every time one would start up, I would be very honest and say that I was glad to participate because the topics being addressed were important, but also that I was skeptical that there would ever be any actual changes. It was always about things we had been discussing for the last 8-10 years, and we’d all agree that yes, something really needed to be done! But when it came to implementing anything, or getting true support from upper management, things would fizzle out. Then another year would go by and someone else would be tasked with putting a committee together to focus on these “very important” issues. It was like Groundhog Day.

        1. Rock, Meet Hard Place*

          Thank you! This team has one of those ridiculous names! Part of me is thinking to just be part of it and yet take a bit of a backseat approach, in the hopes that not much happens. See my other replies–I think the current approach could really damage my relationships with about 50 other people, and I don’t think we’ll be successful. I’d rather not have the relationship damage if I can avoid it–reputation is the hardest thing to rebuild.

      2. Rock, Meet Hard Place*

        Agreed. I’ve started applying elsewhere and I think this is making me ramp this up. She’s a new manager after a recent reorg and I think she’s trying to make her mark–but I don’t want to be collateral damage. I’m afraid she’s using this team concept to sort of hide behind versus putting forth her own ideas in this promotional position. Now she can say “well, it’s what the team decided.” I’ve seen her exhibit this behavior before, so I feel like I’m not being overly paranoid.

    4. Jennifer*

      Is this worth the fight? Do you want this to become a legal matter/involve HR/risk firing if you don’t join this team? Is it worth losing the job to avoid the team?

      It’s not right, mind you, I’m just wondering if it’s worth the level of battle you’d have to fight to not join.

      1. Rock, Meet Hard Place*

        Ugh, I wish you weren’t right. I’m already actively looking elsewhere, and god I hope I can get out of there before this team goes much farther.

    5. Central Perk Regular*

      This happened to me at my old company. I was known for getting things done (and I suspect, because I’m female), so my at-the-time new boss said I had to join what was essentially the party planning committee. I wasn’t in an entry-level role, wasn’t new to the company, and didn’t have any interest in participating because when I was still entry-level in my career, I got roped into doing this type of stuff all the time.

      He told me point blank, “You’re doing this.” So, I halfheartedly participated and ramped up my job search. The committee was made up of people who had no interest either, so it took a really long time to accomplish anything. Luckily, I found a new job and never got stuck planning the dreaded team building event.

      So, you have to decide if this is a trend you’re seeing in your boss. If it is, I would probably be job hunting. If it’s not, I would at least ask my boss specifically why I’m needed on this project. He/she may have a very valid reason.

      1. Rock, Meet Hard Place*

        YES! I think this is spot-on. I’m definitely ramping up my job search. She wants my participation because of my experience–I’m a generalist and well-respected, so she wants both my reputation and my wide skill-level (though not as deep as others). So I feel like I’m being used…and if I believed in the approach I wouldn’t mind. In this case I think it’s ridiculous unless we include a few additional people who actually do the daily work, in order to get their buy-in and feedback.

    6. Chriama*

      The thing is, she can totally make this a condition of your job. It sounds like you thought it was a suggestion and she wasn’t originally clear about the fact that it was an actual requirement. But saying that she’d “go to the leadership team” and there “might not be a place for [you] anymore” is really weird. Why not just say “participating in this is a condition of your job now.” It sounds like she doesn’t have the authority to fire you on her own, and this is a pet project and not something officially sanctioned? Either way, you don’t have an option here. Until she’s no longer your boss she can absolutely say “do this or you’re fired”. So unless you think she can be reasoned with (not just saying you don’t want to join the team, but pointing to work-related reasons why you think you’re not the best fit) then you need to find a new job or a new boss.

      1. Rock, Meet Hard Place*

        This started as a pet project that is now sanctioned. Yes, she’s been asking if I’m interesting in helping out with training for over 18 months and I’ve always indicated yes (she’s only been my supervisor for 6 months)….and I’m interested in the general topic. Now that it’s formalized as a team with this specific approach, I’m not interested in being forced onto something that is anti-collaborative. I think I need to start applying for even more jobs…thank you for the feedback!

    7. Nico m*

      I think you have to attend.

      But See it as a tutorial in politics and sabotage.

      If youre the only person there who doesnt want to be there, you should be able to deflect any responsibility onto the enthusiasts.

      If you have fellow mutineers then you should be able to delay the project indefinitely

      1. Rock, Meet Hard Place*

        There are four people total, including my boss and myself. One other person is in the same boat as I am, and he’s actually going to be gone for a couple of months. While I lose his support, I’m hoping his absence means not much happens on the project.

    8. NW Mossy*

      What I see missing from your post is where you’ve asked questions about this team, its purpose, the priority, and the role you’d play in it. You’ve alluded to thinking you don’t have time and having a disagreement about the approach, but in your boss’s mind, those are issues that can be solved in a way other than say “OK Rock, you don’t need to participate.” Her answers to your objections may very well be “I intend to change around your priorities so that you do have time because this is important, and disagreement is OK because the team needs someone to provide that contrary perspective.” It sounds like you don’t understand the why behind this request, and without that, of course you’re going to resist. However, you’re doing both your boss and yourself a favor if you get clarity on this before you behave in a way that you can’t take back.

      I’m particularly interested in your POV here because I’m about to have a very similar conversation with one of my directs about participating in a key initiative. I expect resistance on time and approach grounds, but I’m not willing to let this employee check out of this entirely – it’s not fair to the rest of the team that’s also participating and quite frankly, it’s checking out of something that’s vital to the team’s future success. To me, refusing this initiative is essentially the same thing as saying “I refuse to make chocolate teapots anymore.” It’s a core job function, and refusing a core job function can and should put your job at risk in most places.

      1. Rock, Meet Hard Place*

        You make some good points. I think she’s willing to move around my priorities, but I disagree so fundamentally with the approach (that a small group from one division designs a new system for a large group from another division–without their input) that it’s giving me pause. I also think the three of us are being set up to be the fall guy/scapegoat for the entire approach and related activities, since she’s had these responsibilities for five months but hasn’t presented her priorities/general approach to the entire leadership team. This way, if we get the anger/blowback that I anticipate from a group of very hard-working staff in the other division, she can blame it on the team’s thinking, adjust her approach, and come in as the hero. Leaving the remaining members of the team “tainted.”

        Hmmm on your second point…what would have made a difference to me was if she had NOT presented it initially, for MONTHS, as an optional project and asked if I was interested. If she had started with the importance of this team as part of my job, I would have viewed it differently. Now it feels like a threat.

        Also, she has not been clear on the purpose, priorities, or approach of the team. Each person she wants on the team has been given a different story and reasons. We suspect, from talking to each other, that she is really unclear and wants to use the initial meeting to figure that out. I wish she could have just said that if that was the case, instead of leaving us really confused. And making me less interested in being on the team–if she can’t figure out those things or be honest about not knowing those things right now (and giving us the opportunity to co-design), how can I know this is going to be a project that she won’t remain as confused on the entire time?

        Finally, I wish she had asked me about my reservations and been willing to alter the approach based on my advice and experience. This non-collaborative approach has been a hallmark of her style on other projects and we’ve disagreed on it before (she believes in the “design, then convince” approach versus mine which is “co-design”). I believe deeply in collaboration and I know my work has shown the benefit of this. Plus, I’ve had the experience of force-feeding new processes/systems on a group and it almost never goes well.

        So, to sum up, what would have made me more open was 1) being clear about the connection to my core job responsibilities from the start, 2) being clear on roles, responsibilities, expectations, purpose, etc., and 3) if I’m being asked to participate because of my experience and knowledge, then listening and adjusting the approach from the beginning (in my case, this would be including 1-2 people minimum from the other division on this team). I don’t know if this is what you’re looking for but I hope it helps your conversation!

        1. Not So NewReader*

          This isn’t a team problem then, this is a boss problem.
          I was wondering why you had such a solid stance, well, it’s because your boss does not inspire confidence.

          Okay. I would go to the meeting. The amount of energy lost in fighting this one is far greater than the amount of energy lost in attending the meeting.

          Take what I say with a grain of salt, sometimes I hear my own drummer.
          I would tell the boss okay and I will go. “But I see an ethics issue here, because the other group should be deciding how they will handle their work, not us.”

          There, now I have laid my groundwork.
          At each meeting I would stress my concern by saying, “Where is representation from the other group??”

          There will be times where I can use this in specific points. “I think we should ask Sue from other department how many widgets they have per day. I don’t think we should use last year’s averages.” OR “Jane from the other department would know those rates, I think we should use Jane’s numbers because ours are three years old and irrelevant because of age.” Keep harping.

          Look at it this way, you could be the microphone at the meeting who advocates for this other group. Because you speak up others at the meeting could start speaking up and you could lessen the impact or even change what is going on here.
          If it comes down to choosing between ticking off one boss or ticking off 50 people, I will choose to tick off the boss. I will find a way to say what is needed and say it in a manner so that she might actually use that input.

          As a second in road: If she is type of person I think she is you might find in roads by telling her that making these decisions without the other group there is going to cause career-impacting ill will. And just to be redundant I would say “that ill will is going to be directed at our team here.”
          She sounds like the type of person who is very concerned about what others think- especially people in power. Make her aware of what others are going to think.

        2. catsAreCool*

          If you’re part of the group, I wonder if you can talk to the people who are going to be affected by it and then during the meetings give input based on that.

    9. Observer*

      In reading the comments I had this thought (which is somewhat echoed by others).

      You don’t really have much choice in whether you take part or not. But, you DO have a choice in how you do this. So, you can try to slow things down, although that could backfire. Or you could try to be the voice of the group whose work is going to be affected. Let them know that you have been pulled into the team and ask for their feedback. Something like “My boss pulled me into this team. I think it’s really important to hear from the spout makers how they see things. What can you tell me about the changes you’d like to see in the process? What do you think we really need to avoid?” Then bring that back into the meetings, both explicitly and in how you try to steer the work of the team, to the extent that you can. That should help avoid the hit to your relationships and reputation.

  29. Happy_Canuck*

    Working on Upwork
    Has anyone had success finding good work on Upwork? Specifically in virtual admin contracts.
    I haven’t been able to find any real input online, mostly only wildly successful freelancers who will sell me access to their training and clubs to learn all their secrets.
    I’m building a contract admin business. So far all my work comes through existing contacts and word of mouth referrals. Would appreciate any input or thoughts, whether about Upwork or other options.
    Many thanks.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      Well, it’s Elance (or it used to be). I just looked on there at proofreading and editing jobs and the amounts people seem to want to pay seem absurdly low.

      Don’t forget; you’ll need to make enough to pay all the taxes on freelance income yourself. I’d figure out what rates I could charge commensurate with my experience that would allow me to cover all my expenses before I went this route. You might have to take some lower-paying jobs at first and do more of them to build it up a bit and get some client recommendations.

      Be careful–some of them look a little bit scammy.

    2. MsChanandlerBong*

      I have used Upwork for freelance writing. Although I have gotten a few decent-paying gigs, there are a lot of crappy gigs to wade through. Additionally, two of the four clients I worked with last year were extremely demanding and basically wanted a full-time employee, not a freelancer. It’s hit-or-miss, but you can find some decent gigs if you have time to submit a lot of bids. Also, they recently raised their rates. I believe it is now a 20% service fee instead of a 10% fee, so you need to bid accordingly. If you want to get paid $1,000, then you need to bid at least $1,250 to account for the service fee.

  30. Daisy Dukes*

    Hi everyone! Thank you so much to everyone for your support in my new position!

    I have a weird situation that I’m hoping you guys can weigh in on. I’m in sales and got a strange email from my former boss asking if I’ve been talking to their existing clients (which they don’t allow once you leave the company). He said they heard things. Not sure what that even means.

    I haven’t because I know the terms and replied saying so. My area doesn’t even cover where their customer base is. Should I be worried about this at all? Note that I come from a pretty stressful environment, mainly because of this same manager.

    Any advice going forward?

    1. Murphy*

      I wouldn’t worry about it for now. If it happens again, I would just reiterate that you’re not doing that and maybe ask him exactly what he heard.

      1. Daisy Dukes*

        Thank you! How might you phrase that? I can see him twisting the “what have you heard?” To an admission of guilt when really I just want to know all the facts.

        1. Murphy*

          First I would be very firm with the “No”, and that you understand and respect their policy. Then after that I might say something like “This isn’t the first time you’ve asked and nothing has changed since the last time. I’m a little concerned about what you may be hearing, since it’s definitely not true. Can you share what you heard?”

        2. Marisol*

          Joe-
          I’m not sure what you’ve heard, but I have not had any contact with any former clients. It troubles me to learn that someone might be suggesting otherwise, because that could negatively impact my reputation. Nevertheless, I assure you that is not the case. I ask that you not pass on any misinformation about me.

          Best,
          Daisy.

    2. Dawn*

      Oh lord Daisy that stupid job is STILL haunting you?

      If you are 100% positive you are in the right, and he contacts you again, say in no uncertain terms that no, you are not violating the terms of your separation agreement and that’s the last you’ll say on the matter, then ignore him. However, I suggest preemptively going to your manager about your old boss contacting you just as a CYA kinda thing, that way she has a heads up if it escalates at all. “Hey, Sansa, I wanted to give you a heads up about this strange email I got from my former boss [explain email]. I know that I’m not violating any terms; in fact, my area doesn’t even cover where his customer base is, but I wanted to tell you in case he tries to escalate anything.” That way she can have your back if you need it.

      1. Daisy Dukes*

        Dawn, how’ve you been?? Thanks for the tip about giving my manager a heads up. I’ll definitely do that. (Poor Sansa already has a lot going on, but I’m glad she’s a dog person!!)

      2. ZVA*

        I have to say, I really don’t recommend doing this! Preemptively drawing your new boss into irrelevant (and, at the moment, nonexistent!) drama involving your old one? I just don’t think that’s a good look & it might cause your new boss to have doubts about your judgment or whatever else, when none are warranted. I say leave well enough alone.

  31. Nervous Accountant*

    It’s been a stressful week and I m feeling…demoralized?

    I went on vacation last week and Monday was my first day back. Everything was great, I got through all my emails, work etc. While I was on vacation, I had my away message up but I still made sure to respond to internal emails from my coworkers if necessary.

    Tuesday, I get an email from my boss and that’s what’s left a bad taste for me.

    Before I left for vacation, we were set up on a pilot program to answer client emails directly from our CRM rather than through our gmail and then copy-pasting it. Since documentation is important in our job, this is great. I was set up a day or two before I left.

    When I came back on Monday, I answered ALL of my client emails thru my gmail because:
    1. I wanted to answer them as quickly as possible. since responsiveness is a big deal at my job, I wanted to get these emails out of the way and it was quicker for me to do it through there.
    2. Not gonna lie, I’m slow. I’m slow to pick up things esp related to software..
    3. I didn’t think it was a hard and fast rule that we absolutely MUST HAVE TO respond thru the CRM right now, since it’s still a pilot program .

    Tuesday, my boss emails me informing me that higher ups saw that I’ve not answered any of my emails since htey have access to the CRM.
    I responded back that I have, just not through there but I emphasized that I have responded to all of my clients.

    She responds back: The whole point of involving you wtih this pilot is for you to get used to using CRM and not gmail. DO NOT use gmail for your client correspondences.

    Reading this, it doesn’t look so bad, but I feel crappy bc frankly it feels like I’m getting shit on for one thing or another. For once, I’m ON TOP of this shit, and I think I was going above and beyond by answering emails while on vacation.
    I was getting in trouble for not responding, and it feels like I’m STILL getting int rouble for being responsive??

    In any case, I guess it worked, because after quickly begging someone for help, I’m using the new method exclusively.

    Am I missing something here? I know you guys usually give good insight to this, am I wrong to feel frustrated?

    1. ThatGirl*

      I understand your frustration, but I also think what your boss asked you to do was reasonable. It’s OK if it takes a little longer through the CRM, because isn’t that part of the point of the pilot?

      Also, and maybe this is just me – I wouldn’t answer emails while on vacation. At all. Unless you are in a higher-paid/higher-responsibility role that expects it.

      Either way I think it’s time to let it go.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        I agree with ThatGirl. And I sympathize, because I face this issue too– when new processes show up and I think they’re useless or time-consuming, I can be really stubborn about implementing them, and I do it reluctantly. However, this is something I have to fight, and for one very good reason– I don’t want to call attention to myself over this stuff, especially in a tense work environment. That was my last place, which was a terrible fit for me. In hindsight, I could have made my own life much, much easier if I had just grumbled to myself and done it. Look at it from the perspective of simply not attracting this type of negative attention.

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        Yeah, I want to let it go. I’m slow at new processes…because I’m just slow? It takes me forever to understand and process things. It’s not that I don’t want to implement them bc I honestly think this is super awesome and I’m so glad to have it…but…I’m slow.

        We have to answer our clients ASAP, no more than 24 hours should go by w/o a response.

        I only answer my coworkers emails bc, Idk, it makes me feel like I’m putting in a lot of effort to be responsive and helpful. My clients knew I was away so no one complained they couldn’t hear back from me but I still wanted to be quick you know?

        It’s just me, I’d rather take a few minutes to look at emails (but not respond) than to come back to 100+ and stress out.

    2. BRR*

      This is going to sounds harsh but I think you made a mistake. It sounds like you should have answered through the CRM but you didn’t want to. However you fixed it by only using the CRM and now you move forward. I would guess you’re frustrated because you feel you did your job by responding to clients but you said it yourself that documentation is important and you missed that part which is why you’re manager is frustrated.

      And as ThatGirl said, I wouldn’t answer emails while on vacation unless they are critical.

    3. Brogrammer*

      I sympathize with you. Gmail is nice and easy to use, while most email systems within CRM are… not. In the short term, unfortunately, you’ll need to do what your boss says, even though it sucks.

      In the long term, you may want to suggest to your boss that if tracking emails through CRM is important but logging emails through CRM is clunky and time-consuming, it may be worth looking into an integration tool that connects Gmail with CRM – there are quite a few solutions out there and they’re not that expensive.

    4. AnonAcademic*

      It looks like there is pressure on your boss to have a system where they can easily track staff communication with clients, so by going outside that system not only do you not get credit for your prompt responses, your boss gets in trouble when it turns out you did respond out of the intended system. You solved one issue (prompt client communication) but created another (higher ups think you’re behind, yell at boss).

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I think the only thing you missed is that they would be watching to see if you would use the CRM and how that went for you.

      You can feel frustrated if you want, you are entitled to have whatever emotion you want. However, I think that frustration will slow you down and weigh you down. It would be in your favor to just let go of it.

      You anticipated them yelling at you because your messages were late, so you pounded out your answers in gmail and thought you had done a great stroke of work. You probably did do a great stroke of work. But it’s not what they wanted. I think you were blindsided by their insistence on using the CRM.

      I remember you had a crappy job before this one. Try not to bring the crap from that job to this job. Try not to anticipate their reaction before you see it. What you did here was like,”I am going to hurry up and do this before anyone yells at me.” So you got it done, felt great and BOOM. Blindsided.

      Slow down. I mean slow down your thought process to figure out what they want from you, don’t just think about ways to CYA. You did not get in trouble for not being responsive because in the end your boss did listen and believe you when you said you responded. You got into trouble for not using the CRM.

      At your old job you had to make CYA your number one priority.
      Time to change.
      Make listening to what they are telling you your top priority. If you have a question about which thing is a priority then ask. Like here, you could have asked your boss “Is using the CRM my priority or is answering the people in a timely manner my priority?”

      I really think you are okay here. I think you got flustered, and I would be too. “Dang I am trying so hard here and it’s STILL wrong!” But it’s not that wrong, it’s not the end of the world. It’s okay. Just tell them you are sorry and you misunderstood. And please, resume breathing, ok?

  32. Folklorist*

    Was watching Love Actually last night, and going back to the Fictional Bosses debates–isn’t Alan Rickman’s character the world’s worst boss?! Seriously, ever workplace in that movie is a harassment suit waiting to happen, but yeesh. He sleeps with his assistant, pushes two of his subordinates together–which then crashes to a grinding halt, causing horrible awkwardness–plans a holiday party at a gallery with nude portraits (and has to warn his female employees to stay away from one of the male employees if they don’t want their boobs fondled. WHY HASN’T HE FIRED THAT GUY FOR FONDLING HIS COWORKERS’ BOOBS?!).

    2. Kirsten*

      Seriously, I can’t stand his character. I love almost everything else about that movie, but he is utterly unlikable.

    3. SJ*

      As sad as it makes me to speak ill of our dear departed Alan, he’s definitely a crappy boss in that one.

      1. SJ*

        And a crappy person, obviously. Anyone who makes Emma Thompson cry like that deserves a swift kick in the groin.

    4. Lemon Zinger*

      I think he really cared about his employees, and he pushed Sarah to pursue Karl because she had been in love with him since Day 1. He didn’t know enough about her situation to realize that she wasn’t in a position to be in a relationship.

      But yeah, everything with Mia was totally inexcusable. I sob every time I watch Emma Thompson weep!

      1. katamia*

        I agree that he cares about his employees. He needs help with drawing and maintaining boundaries, though.

    5. Maya Elena*

      I’d say that’s rather harsh on three of those counts.

      I don’t think he actually ever gets around to sleeping with the assistant, or I missed that part in the movie.

      The puritanical attitude towards nudity is something particular to the US – I don’t think it’s nearly as much of a Thing in Europe. Not sure about Britain, but – for instance – it’s normal in other countries to see naked toddlers at the beach.

      Also, idealized HR norms be damned, but to the extent that nobody in the interaction thought it inappropriate, it really wasn’t. (The derailment of the relationship cannot he attributed to the boss.)

      1. Folklorist*

        The script writer came out last year and answered the unanswered question: he did sleep with her! It’s not totally addressed in the story (link to follow in reply).

        I actually don’t mind nudity, especially in art–but I think it’s more of a total lack of boundaries thing. Yes, maybe he cared about his employees and wanted them to be happy together and didn’t know about her life circumstances–but it’s generally acknowledged that dating coworkers isn’t a great idea, exactly for that reason!

        And he should have still fired the coworker who was known for groping the other employees.

    6. Emilia Bedelia*

      I watched it 2 days ago and thought the EXACT SAME THING!
      That whole conversation about everyone knowing that Sarah is in love with Karl…. AWFUL!

    7. Elizabeth West*

      One of the reasons I like this film, even though I hate romantic comedies, is because it shows all different kinds of love–father/son, friends, siblings, unrequited love, and also that it doesn’t always work out.

      It is sooooo easy to sympathize with Emma Thompson’s character because Alan Rickman’s is a giant nu-nu head idiot who deserves nothing. And yes, he is a really, really terrible boss.

      What a great actor he was. He really did his job well in this film because I HATE that guy. :)

    8. Anion*

      Because it’s a company in England, where they don’t have the same respect for the idea that sexual harassment is bad. :-)

      Some of the things my husband has seen in the workplace here in England have literally made our mouths fall open in shock.

  33. Catalin*

    Okay everyone: pursuant to yesterday’s anonymous notes post and comments: what passive aggressive/anonymous notes have you NOT left in the office? In other words, what have you wanted to post (but never did because it’s wildly inappropriate).

    1. Catalin*

      Would whoever leaves bodily fluids on the seats in the ladies’ room please revisit potty training?

        1. paul*

          and semen. Wait till you get home folks! *gag*

          Thankfully that’s only happened 2x, in my whole working life, but just, oh god why

            1. paul*

              Different offices, different jobs, and a couple of years apart too! So I’m guessing more than one person has done that…and then neglected to actually clean up

      3. Rat in the Sugar*

        And if you’re going to use your foot to kick at the flusher because you don’t want to touch it, wipe off the rubber shoe marks you left on the edge of the seat when your kick missed!!! GAH!!!

        1. Natalie*

          All of these issues combine into my PA note, which would be something along the lines of “quit being so damned germophobic and just use the bathroom with the typical body parts”.

      4. SJ*

        “Given how frequently empty toilet paper rolls are left on the holder, even though a stack of fresh rolls sits within reach of the toilet, it seems like many in this office don’t know how to change them out. I’d be happy to give step-by-step instructions for anyone who might need them. Thanks!”

        1. BlueWolf*

          At my old job (a small medical office) there was actually a trick to changing the toilet paper (you had to use a pin to “unlock” it), but any new coworkers were good about asking how to do it. And since the restroom was also used by patients they would often just leave the new roll on top (although some did at least say they couldn’t figure out how to do it and let us know that it needed changing). In that case none of us were offended that they didn’t change the roll since it actually wasn’t obvious how to and I didn’t mind changing it out.

        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          Honestly, I prefer it when people don’t replace the rolls in ours. We have these ridiculous paper holders that get hung up and you end up tearing off one or two squares. SMH.

      5. Brogrammer*

        A real sign I saw posted in a (non-work, alas) bathroom: Gentlemen, stand closer, it’s shorter than you think. Ladies, please remain seated throughout the entire performance.

    2. Boardwalk Kingdom*

      Well THANK you boss, for not telling us that the client changed the deadline! I do DEEPLY enjoy working late into the night to finish the report you didn’t actually need!

    3. Nota Llama*

      We had someone who we desperately wanted to leave a note asking her to take personal phone calls away from her desk. She only had one volume, loud, and she would make personal calls that shared far too much information about her medical and financial dealings. Plus she was just a jerk to the poor customer service people on the other side of the phone. My whole group sat on the other side of the cube wall from her and really wished she’d quit yelling at everyone on the phone or at least go do it in a conference room.

    4. A nonny nonny*

      “Please for the love of all that is holy wear deodorant. There’s a drug store 200 feet from here. You can buy it on your lunch break.”

      1. GigglyPuff*

        Or the opposite of that
        “Lay off the dryer sheets, I shouldn’t be able to smell your laundry after you left the room ten minutes ago.”

        “Whoever sprayed the Axe body spray IN the elevator (because that’s clearly the only explanation for the amount you can smell), please stop. The elevator smelled just fine.”

    6. LCL*

      Telling me you need vacation to see your family, when your family lives in town, is BS. You can see them on your days off, THAT’S WHAT I DO.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Wait, I’d strongly disagree with this. If someone has relatives in from out of town, it’s not unreasonable to want to take time off to spend with them. In general, I’d avoid getting into judging someone’s reasons for wanting vacation time.

      2. MsCHX*

        Oooh, yeah no. Life is busy when you’re coordinating families and taking a day off to specifically spend time with family is a-ok. PTO / vacation doesn’t just exist for travel.

        Says the person who always plans 1 mental health day soon after the school year ends because THANK GOODNESS I’m not running around like a crazy person for the next 3 months.

      3. AdAgencyChick*

        Who cares what they want to use their vacation allotment for, unless you’re in an all-hands-on-deck period?

        2. LCL*

          Because every empty shift has to be filled. Which means someone else has to come in. I’m not complaining about scheduled vacations, we plan for this and don’t care what it is used for. It is the last minute requests, which they try to guilt you into filling because they have to see family. We always try to fill last minute requests no matter what the reason, and if vacation is denied it is about coverage availability.

          In a shift work job, being at work when others are off is part of the deal. It is offset by having days off in the middle of the week so you can get things done without missing work. Our schedule is carefully planned and regulated by our labor agreement. Demanding last minute vacation to see family that live in town makes last minute work that could have been avoided. The people that do this are high maintenance and are the same people who can’t get to work on time and use a lot of leave just because.

          1. Alton*

            Ah, yeah, I think that’s a different issue. Yeah, it’s a problem when people are quick to call out/ask for time off short-notice when they do shift work, and I’ve definitely known people who were not good at budgeting their time off requests. I don’t think that’s specifically a problem with people asking for the time off to see local family–it’d still be a problem if they had another reason. But some people do ask off a lot for things that they could maybe be flexible on without considering how that affects their ability to get time off for things that are less flexible.

      4. Alton*

        People can use vacation time for whatever they want as long as they budget it and try to limit how much they’re away during really busy times.

        Also, just because family is in town doesn’t always mean that schedules will work out for people to only use days they already have off.

      5. Clever Name*

        Respectfully, I can spend my vacation time however the hell I want. At my company we get 1 personal day that is use it or lose it, in addition to holiday and vacation and sick time. I spent my personal day in my underwear watching TV and napping. It was glorious.

    7. VolunteercoordinatorinNOVA*

      Even if you close your office door, EVERYONE can still hear your personal phone calls as you put them on speakerphone as you’re too lazy to pick up the phone. So glad that you have such a large invite list for that surprise party and I’m so happy that hear (for 15 freaking minutes) about how Bobby is coming in from out of town for it!

    8. Manders*

      “Hey people from the next office over, we often see you talking on the phone about your friends going to jail, or taking breaks by crouching on the floor alone in the shared hallway. Is everything ok over there?”

    9. TMA*

      Quite putting recyclable items in the trash. There is literally a recycle bin RIGHT NEXT TO THE TRASH CAN and a sign above it that says what is recyclable. Not that hard.

      2. zora*

        Can you send me a copy of your sign, please, because omg how do people still not understand recycling in 2016?!?!!?

        And I also need one that says Quit Throwing Plastic Bags And Other Trash in the Recycle Bin!!!!

      3. Elizabeth West*

        Hahah, that reminds me of a commercial I used to see when I lived in Santa Cruz. The camera scrolls past these really big, ugly, scary, biker gang-looking criminals in a police lineup and a woman’s voice is saying, “No…no…that’s not it…nope….”

        Then the next guy in line is a pudgy dude in a suit with a very round face and a mild expression. She screams hysterically and says, “AAAAAAH! That’s him! That’s the guy I saw put a bottle in the trash!”

        And then all the thugs turn and glare at him and say, “Ewwww! You did WHAT!?”

        :D

    10. Catalin*

      Dear Mark and Sarah,

      We know the supply closet doesn’t actually get restocked when you’re in there. Take a break from ‘restocking’ and actually unpack some boxes.

    11. Temperance*

      I do not care that you have a child/children, you shouldn’t automatically use childcare as a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card and then say that I’ll get to do the same when I have a baby. How about do your job?

    12. Susan C.*

      In addition to the existing “please replace soda you take from the fridge with one from the pantry”:

      “Replacing the one lonely Fanta I put in here with yet another Coke Zero does NOT COUNT AS FOLLOWING THIS RULE”

    13. Alton*

      Part of this job is cleaning up before you finish up for the day. Don’t leave your trash behind, especially in shared work areas. Don’t leave your half-eaten cheeseburger in a drawer for me to find. If you spill food on a surface, actually clean it up. Don’t just smear it around.

    14. Viola Dace*

      For god’s sake see a sinus doc or something, because listening to you snork, and sniff and hock is literally making me want to vom.

    15. paul*

      I wanted to leave one for a prior boss who complained, at length, any time the bathrooms smelled at all. It would read something like:

      “Dear boss, you may think your s*** doesn’t stink, but I promise, it smells too. People poop in bathrooms. Deal with it”.

        1. Arjay*

          I have HIPAA as an excuse, but any time I see anything left on the printer, it goes into the shred bin. Print and sprint, friends. Print and sprint.

      2. SJ*

        At my last job, I worked with an executive assistant who managed the Head Boss’s (admittedly incredibly complicated) calendar. But she printed out every single meeting request email she received instead of just filing them into a “Meeting Requests” folder in her inbox or something. It was a mindblowing amount of paper, given how many meeting requests she got. She was (and I’m guessing still is) a terrible employee, so a big part of me thinks she just wanted to look busy by getting up to go to the printer fifty times a day.

      3. Elizabeth West*

        Gah. Bosswife at OldExJob made me print out EVERY SINGLE sample order I did from the Access database (basically a copy of the shipping letter) and file it in a drawer, “in case we needed to find it again.” I don’t think she realized that 1) the database was searchable, and 2) it was also backed up every night.

    17. BBBizAnalyst*

      Mine would read “flush the toilet” … there is a serial non flusher in the women’s room and it’s absolutely disgusting to walk in to a restroom right after her.

      I’m not sure if it’s an environmental thing but she does not flush. It’s so gross.

      1. Menacia*

        We have various offices in my company and I’m always amazed by the laminated postings on (each) stall related to flushing, cleaning, putting the proper trash in the proper receptacle. Then again, we have a lot of people who LOVE signs, and think the rest of us are completely incompetent.

    18. NW Mossy*

      From a job I had about 10 years ago:

      Dear Bike Messengers,

      This is a stairwell, not a urinal. We will be happy to share a key to our restroom if you ask.

      Sincerely,

      Office Workers Who Then Have To Clean Up Your Excretions

    19. Alice Ulf*

      “Dear clients, watching your child swing on the velvet divider rope until s/he manages to unbalance the heavy metal post to which it is attached does not actually count as keeping your children under ‘supervision,’ plzkthx.”

    20. Marisol*

      Dear C-
      I love you, but your loud sneezes make me want to jump out of my skin. Please stop artificially intensifying the noise level to sound more macho.
      Love,
      Anonymous

    21. Rob Lowe can't read*

      I’m still going back and forth about whether posting instructions on how to use our ancient microwave would be too passive aggressive. (Basically, the only function that works is the standard “time cook,” and if you try to select any fancy options it gets stuck and won’t work, and the only way to fix it is to unplug it and reset the whole thing.)

        1. OhBehave*

          In fact, just duct tape all the other buttons out until you only have “time cook”. Easy peasy.

    22. Cath in Canada*

      “you do not own this thermostat just because you happen to sit next to it. Please try wearing a sweater instead of making all your coworkers sweat because you want to wear t-shirts every day”

      1. Ultraviolet*

        yesyesyesyesyesyesyes.

        “Feeling cold because you wore a t-shirt in December? Instead of turning the thermostat up to 76, consider getting some exercise by walking to the bathroom to brush your teeth instead of doing it at your desk in a shared office! :) :)”

      2. Drew*

        “You have two choices: you can put on a jacket or you can watch me work in my boxers with my hairy back out because IT IS TOO DAMN HOT. Or turn up that space heater that’s on right now under your desk even though it is freaking August.”

        Had a boss once who said, “Just get a fan.” So I got one. Turned it on. Papers everydamnwhere. “OMG DREW WHAT ARE YOU DOING TURN THAT OFF.” Just looked at him until he said, “OK, you can turn the thermostat down. I’ll warn the chilly people.”

        Current office has multiple climate-control zones. I proposed at one point moving all the “it’s too hot” people to one end of the office and all the “it’s too cold” people to the other and letting them deal with the project teams being split up as a result. It was not taken as a serious suggestion, which was an error on their part.

        (And my facilities team just figured out that the thing over my desk that they have been SWEARING is blowing cold air directly onto my desk is — wait for it — actually an intake. Sigh.)

    23. Jean*

      There’s stirrers in the cabinet right above the coffee – stop using a spoon to stir your coffee and leaving it on the counter.

    24. Drew*

      “Stop changing the status of items on my project. I don’t care if you’re a C-level boss; you aren’t MY C-level boss and you don’t actually know what you are doing. I’d much rather answer your questions than fix your mistakes.”

  34. Open Office Dweller*

    Venting – We moved offices a few months ago from one open office to another, but the new space has less collaboration spaces.
    One of the phone booths on our floor has been taken over by a senior staff member – he works there whenever he’s in the office and leaves all his stuff there. I’m not in a position to say anything, but it’s SUPER ANNOYING. There’s already very limited space away from our desks (only 2 or 3 huddle rooms per 100 people), and he’s claimed this one for himself and isn’t even in it half the time!
    Also annoying – only TWO phone rooms (in the WHOLE office) have doors on them – I was playing phone tag with my doctor last week and was running up and down the stairs trying to find a little privacy.
    I’m not a huge fan of open offices, but they can work fine as long there’s enough space (preferably with DOORS) for occasional variety and then make sure they don’t turn into defaco offices
    UGH

    1. Bex*

      That sounds completely infuriating!! We have an open office with hoteling… you book your workstation by the day or week. So we have about 110 staff and 70 desks (lots of travel, even the execs use the desks). But we also have 4 phone booths and 20 rooms, so you can almost always find a space for a piovate call. I can’t imagine having only 3! And what’s the point of a phone booth without a door?

    2. Drew*

      We were supposed to have two huddle rooms and one big conference room following our open office remodel. One of the other teams turned “their” huddle room into an office and has started holding meetings in the other huddle room, right next to my desk and frequently used by my team. I’ve actually chased them out a couple of times and had to say, “You have a huddle room. It’s not my fault you’re using it for an office. We need this space now.”

      The big conference room, meanwhile, is starting to become a permanent meeting space for another project team that needs more flat surface than any of their offices provides. It’s a key project that has to keep moving forward, but it’s making it even harder to find places to hold meetings.

  35. Just a Goonie*

    Me last year (#1 – other people wouldnt’ get raises if I got a raise):
    https://www.askamanager.org/2015/12/my-coworkers-are-birthday-tyrants-job-candidate-called-coworker-annoying-and-more.html

    *I consume negotiation advice, articles about being assertive in the workplace, AAM advice, etc. all year in preparation for this year’s salary discussion.*

    Same manager, this year: What do you want?
    The first six words out of my mouth: “Is it bad to ask for…”

    WHYYYYYYY, SELF, WHYYYYYYYY???????????

  36. missj928*

    I am a paralegal in a non-profit legal services center. Currently we are extremely short staffed due to one of our paralegals being on maternity leave, one unexpectedly quitting, and one who is leaving to return to school. Because of this, the workload for the remaining 4 paralegals has been super heavy. Being a non-profit, each attorney is assigned at least 30-40 cases at any given time. I’m currently working with 2 attorneys, plus I take calls for our bankruptcy hotline and I help out with the paperwork for our legal clinic (it was split between one of the paralegals who is gone and me until we get the new paralegal trained). On top of my work stress, I have had health problems the past couple months that I’ve been needing to schedule appointments for.

    One of the 4 remaining paralegals is notorious for pawning off the work on other people and generally seems unaware that we are equally as busy as him. He’s also known for giving work without giving an explanation and he acts annoyed when you ask him what to do. I cannot take on the work that he keeps delegating me. His communication style does not mesh with my communication style and I’m becoming increasingly annoyed at it.

    Is it wrong for me to push the work back to him and telling him that I already have too much work to complete?

    1. Dawn*

      “Is it wrong for me to push the work back to him and telling him that I already have too much work to complete?”

      NO. Make him haul his own weight.

    4. AdAgencyChick*

      Of course it’s not wrong! If he’s not your manager, he doesn’t get to assign you stuff without your consent!

      Practice your best Miss Manners-style “That will not be possible.”

    5. Lillian Styx*

      Is he allowed to delegate work that I’m guessing was delegated to him by an attorney already? I would tell him no and that he needs to go back to the attorney who assigned this to him if his workload can’t accommodate it.

      If it’s general work that you 4 are splitting, can you talk to your supervisor about ground rules? Rotate days to handle the hotlines or the inboxes?

    6. Triangle Pose*

      This suck, I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. Stop accepting work from him and signalling that his behavior is okay. Assuming he is not senior or you or a supervisoring paralegal or some king, just say no! Don’t let him think he can “act annoyed.” when unloading his work on others.

      Tell him “Can’t help you out, I have too much of my own work on my plate to take any of yours.” Don’t apologize and make him own up to his own work.

    7. paul*

      Not at all. One of the happiest days in my working life was realizing my coworkers aren’t actually my boss, and cant’ just assign me duties out of the blue.

    8. NW Mossy*

      Not wrong at all! Check in with your boss to confirm it’s OK (and I suspect it will be) to say, “Fergus, if you need my assistance on your workload, you need to check with [boss] first. [Boss] wants to be informed when we’re shifting work around so that it’s clear who’s responsible for the deliverable.” Rinse and repeat as necessary.

      Needing to run through the boss will likely cause about 99.99% of this pawn-off to stop. If he has to expose what he’s doing to his superior, his self-preservation instinct will kick in and he’ll find another way. Plus, you also put the boss on notice that this is happening.

    10. Observer*

      Of course it’s not wrong. He’s not your boss, and doesn’t have the authority to delegate anything to you.

      Just set up a standard response to anything he “delegates” to you that informs him that you won’t be doing whatever it is.

  37. Nonny4this*

    How do you handle a deeply insecure employee?

    I’ve recently been promoted to a supervisory position (I have no hire/fire powers but I’m responsible for keeping the team on track during my shift and I can send people home/do other small disciplinary things). One of the people I supervise, “Sue,” has been working here for about 5 weeks and still has not progressed beyond doing the most basic tasks. I am constantly babysitting her to make sure she is completely things correctly. Often I can’t get her to stay on task either–unless she is 100% comfortable with doing something, she’ll wander off in the middle or make excuses about why she can’t even attempt it.

    The problem is that she also responds badly to every form of correction I try. If I stop her when she’s in the middle of doing something incorrectly, she gets very sad and shuts down and says, “I just KNEW I couldn’t do it” or “You shouldn’t have trusted me with that.” Sometimes she insists that someone else taught her differently (even though she is the only person making that particular mistake). If I try to be positive and walk her through the tasks before she does them, she either insists she can’t do it, or she takes forever. If she makes a really major mistake, she seems on the verge of tears and often tries to get me to send her home as punishment, which is not helpful.

    Sue also has a medical condition that affects her facial features, and she’s uncomfortable working with customers sometimes because she perceives them as judging her appearance. This may or may not be true (I’m not always right there to witness the interaction), but our work is 50% working with customers and she does need to be able to get through interactions with people who are rude or dismissive. When I try to get her to take over the customer side of things, she’ll walk away from the front desk if she thinks a customer is being cold or rude to her. Since I can’t trust her to do non-customer tasks alone and she shuts down if she has a negative interaction with a customer, lots of times she’s just standing around while the rest of us get things done.

    This is not a sustainable situation, and for a variety of reasons I can’t hand the problem over to my boss right now. Do you guys have any suggestions beyond what I’ve tried?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Honestly, it doesn’t sound like she’s the right person for the role and I’d start approaching it from that direction — as in, really taking a hard look at what it would take to get her where you need her to be in a reasonable amount of time (with a new person, I’d measure that in weeks, not months), and being honest with her (and your boss) that there’s a limited period of time to try to resolve this.

      I think that’s your more pressing problem than responding to her insecurity.

      1. Nonny4this*

        Yes, I’d agree that she’s not right for the role (personally, I would not have hired her) but we’re really understaffed right now with several longtime employees departing soon, so I’m stuck with her for the next month at minimum.

        I like your suggestion of trying to preemptively set goals for her–I think that might give her a more concrete idea of what she needs to do. Unfortunately I don’t have the authority to suggest her job might be at risk if she doesn’t meet our benchmarks, but it’s something to bring up to my boss.

        1. Nonny4this*

          Any suggestions for how I might counter her self-defeating comments in the moment? I’ve never dealt with this situation before and so far I’ve just paused, let the comment go by, and continued with what I was saying.

          1. Dawn*

            I don’t think you’ll be able to. You’re her boss, not her therapist. I think continuing to ignore her self-defeatism and emphasising what she need to be doing in her job is the right approach.

          2. Ask a Manager* Post author

            Address it head-on: “Jane, I want you to stop making comments about how you knew you couldn’t do a task or I shouldn’t have trusted you with something. If you genuinely believe that to be true and this isn’t the right job for you, let’s figure out what to do about that. But otherwise those comments are really disruptive and are getting in the way of your training.” Then if it happens again, stop the conversation and say, “I’m alarmed to hear you say that. If you don’t believe you can do the job, what makes sense from here?”

            This is sort of related and might help:

            https://www.askamanager.org/2016/06/my-new-coworker-is-bad-at-her-job-and-keeps-apologizing.html

            1. Nonny4this*

              I do try to praise what she’s doing well, but I’ll try to be more conscious of doing so. Maybe that will help.

            2. YuliaC*

              I think this could be true. I would try praising her for whatever she does manage to do adequately, even if those are small basic tasks. Sounds like coddling, but some people just need a tiny bit of praise to start feeling much more confident. It doesn’t cost anything to try, alongside other things..
              But, I’d try to avoid telling her “You’re doing it just fiiiine!” when she feels defeatist about something. She will probably not believe that, and feel even more miserable. I’d praise her on things that she doesn’t feel bad about, while offering concrete steps to get better in areas she struggles with.

    2. Kathlynn*

      Have you tried having her write down the steps she needs to follow? Is there any cleaning she can do? Like washing shelves or extra good scrubbing of the floor.

      1. Nonny4this*

        Often the tasks she doesn’t/can’t accomplish are things where there is already a step by step guide to it.

        I do have her working on the less urgent tasks (like cleaning) most of the time, but there’s a limited number of those and I really, really need someone in the role she’s supposed to be filling.

        I suppose I’m more frustrated than anything–we JUST got rid of another low-performing employee and I’d hoped Sue would be better.

  38. Kathlynn*

    So, I’m in retail. And u was recently moved from full-time afternoon shifts, to 4-5 shifts a week, mixed afternoon and graveyard shifts. I was hired for graveyard shifts, and I really like them. The thing is, my manager seems to think I need the day off before my graveyard shifts (she pointed it out me, I forget the wording. But it was in a this is a good thing way), which I really don’t. And then I only get one day (32 hours) between my graveyard shift and my next, afternoon, shift. So I can’t really get enough sleep for my afternoon shift. (because I need to be up by noon, but I don’t feel tired until like 10am). It’s also only been a couple weeks that I’ve been on this schedule, and it’s not a final schedule. I’m just not sure how (if I should) bring this up to my manager.

    1. MsCHX*

      People so often project themselves onto others. I’m one of those people that really cannot function well without 8-9 hours of sleep so when someone tells me they only need 4-6 I am astonished. I would just try to explain that this is actually more difficult for you and if possible you’d prefer all graveyard shifts.

      (I also think that people who have always worked ‘normal’ day shifts don’t get that just because you worked 2nd shift or overnight that you’re exhausted and ready to climb into bed after work. When I was around 19 I got off work anytime from 11 pm to 2 a.m. Most days I would go to sleep by around 6-7 a.m. which really, that’s in line with people who get off at 5 pm and go to bed at 10 or 11.)

      1. Kathlynn*

        Yes. I cannot gall asleep quickly. Usually takes 4 hours after a shift for me to fall asleep.
        I don’t mind doing both afternoon and graveyards. I just need/prefer that my days off be together if I’m doing so.
        I know I can’t be put on graveyards yet, because theres currently enough staff for it, outside of my 2-3 shifts. They were hoping to fire someone on that shift, and haven’t yet. I was hired at a rough time, since my manager had just been promoted, after our absent manager was placed on medical leave.

  39. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

    Anyone else here sometimes want to submit an open thread question/vent but are paranoid that the details will out you? I don’t even need advice really just wanted commiseration and while I am about 95% certain these people don’t even know this blog exists I still just.can’t.do.it.

    So, rather than get into the details, I’ll just post this: Anyone here deal with a super tiny, likely family-run, business that plays a little fast and loose with paychecks? (In this case, it isn’t me – I work for a very large organization, so I am used to itemized, orderly, correct paychecks that come in expected intervals!)

    1. Guilty as charged*

      For your first paragraph, that is totally me. I would face a huge issue at work, want to write to AAM or the community to seek some advice… and then realise mid way through typing the story that my boss would definitely know it was me. So I end up deleting it XD

      1. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

        Right? Like I said, pretty positive the person doesn’t read the blog, but YOU NEVER REALLY KNOW, do you?!

        1. Coalea*

          My boss recently let several projects slip through the cracks. When he was finally called out on it by the clients in question, his response was to claim that he had sent out emails that apparently were not received.

          I realize that Outlook can be a bit wonky sometimes, but this seems fishy to me. Not only do the particulars seem suspect (only certain emails to certain individuals were affected), if he did send these emails as he claims, didn’t it seem odd to him that the clients continued to follow up asking where their deliverables were? Didn’t he wonder why I was emailing him to confirm whether or not he had sent out the deliverables? Typically we save everything to a shared server, and filenames are of the format “Chocolate Teapot Report_Draft 1_sent to client 5Sept2016.” For the projects in question, the files don’t have the dates in the filename – and appear to have been created after when they were supposedly sent to client.

          I’m interested to hear what others think my obligations are in this situation!

        2. sometimeswhy*

          Yep. Yep yep yep.

          I have taken that a step farther and when a post/open thread vent/open thread question is too close to a situation I (and, to my knowledge, no one else here) is dealing with, I won’t participate in the comments AND get hyperventilatey and paranoid that if someone from here sees it, they’ll think it was me.

    2. Kathlynn*

      I went from a local chain store to (after they sold it) a basically family owned and managed out of town chain of stores (though not under the same name). I went from having benefits, getting paid overtime, having my holiday pay saved for me, proper tax amounts getting taken off, and paid biweekly. To getting paid once a month, no benefits, less taxes getting taken off (like, it was the same amount or less then the amount I get taken off of one paycheck now, or before then. For 2x the time worked), holiday pay given every paycheck. And no overtime and less hours (because they cut hours to reduce the number of staff needed).
      We also went from having a dedicated manager to one who ran 4 stores, and (without contact info) were expected to find our own coverage when sick. 6 months and I was gone.

      1. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

        Oh, that sounds like a nightmare. From a company that cared about it’s employees to one that … didn’t.

        1. Kathlynn*

          Yup, and the lack of overtime and pay frequency are illegal. But they don’t care. (they have people working +9 hour days,but won’t pay overtime unless you get more than 40 hours. Where I live requires daily overtime be paid as well as weekly.)
          Though I would say the last employer really cared about the employees. Worked there for 6 years and got 1 raise, like 2 months before the sale went through.

      2. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

        In this case it’s a super teeny tiny doesn’t-even-meet-federal-labor-law-thresholds-on-a-lot-of-things company that just kind of does what it wants. Not because they are trying to screw anyone, either. It makes me nuts because part of me really wants to intervene but it’s not my place to do so.

    4. animaniactoo*

      I worry more since I found the clause in the employee handbook that says we’re not *ever* supposed to talk about the company by name on any form of social media.

      I have since been even more general about the specifics of my job (i.e. I used to say what kind of kids’ products I design and now I just say I design kids’ products).

      1. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

        I’ve seen that at a handful of companies. One I used to work at had this policy. This company is no longer in business and I remember discussing with others how we had a feeling the policy was not legal!

        1. Kathlynn*

          Current international employer has this policy. Plus a bit more. Don’t remember the wording, since I didn’t get a copy of the paperwork they wanted me to sign. (really bad way to enforce policies. Get your employees to sign something, but don’t give them a copy….how many of us have ever said something like “I have a bad memory”)

        2. animaniactoo*

          It’s legal, and I get the reasoning behind it based on the kinds of products we produce and preserving the company reputation. We’re all under NDAs anyway due to the competitive nature of our market. In my department, I sign about 4 or 5 more NDAs at various meetings throughout the year, so details I talk about in the office can be overheard, etc. etc.

          The main reason I went even more generic here is because I talk about specific issues in my office on occasion and naming the exact kind of products I work on makes it easy to identify where I work with just a little bit of digging. There are basically 3 companies in the country that produce what my company does, and with a few other details that are relevant for talking about something else (like yesterday, I posted that the owners of my company are Orthodox Jewish and we close for all the high holy days) it would be easy to narrow down to which one I’m at. While what I’ve posted about up until now has been in very generic terms, if I ever have a bigger issue I want to be able to talk about it without fear of the company being identifiable from previous comments.

          1. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

            Ahh, that makes sense. In this other company’s case, the conversations had to do with terms and conditions of employment, which they really couldn’t (legally) restrict.

    5. Ask a Manager* Post author

      You can always change details like sex, size of company/team, etc. With an extraordinarily unusual situation, that might not help, but in most of them it would. (I’d estimate that the majority of questions I answer here aren’t so unusual that they’re only happening in one workplace that year, although of course there are some exceptions, like the heirloom-stealing boss or — hopefully — duck club.)

      1. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

        Yeah, I know that. If it was a true quandry I would probably do this, but this was more of a vent than anything, which I guess made me realize it isn’t really worth it. ;)

    6. smokey*

      Yes, to the first point. I’ll face an issue but feel like it has to be rare and therefore everyone will know where I work. But I can’t determine if it’s actually a rare issue because I don’t want to say what it is! I’ll be unable to find the same thing in the archives, but the archives are vast.

      1. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

        As I’m thinking of it, the complaint/vent is for sure not rare at all. The dynamics surrounding it make it more rare, though I’ll bet even then not as much as I would think!

        Related, we got confirmation on what the issue was … which opens more for me wanting to vent. Why do teeny tiny businesses just think that they can ignore the law?! (Answer: They don’t. They just don’t know the law. And they don’t want to listen to those of us that do.)

    7. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

      I always want to write in when I’m having issues. I tend to change quite a few details so that HOPEFULLY no one involved in the situations would be able to tell it’s me posting. Fingers crossed on that one.

    8. Marisol*

      I’m not worried about getting identified but I am worried about getting my feelings hurt or just being misunderstood.

      I’ve never had a workplace play fast & loose with my paycheck, and would not tolerate it.

    9. not my usual alias*

      As you can see by my name, I share the same fear. :)

      My spouse used to work for such a business. Once, they were notified a couple of weeks ahead of time that the checks they were supposed to receive on X date would be a few days late, because the payroll clerk (the owner’s child) was going on vacation. Those who complained were told “You were informed ahead of time, you should make arrangements.”

      1. Jean*

        Yeah, they can’t do that. I’ve done payroll for over 30 years, and you either do it ahead of time, or you get someone else to do it.

        1. Jean*

          Hi, Jean, this is another Jean. Nice to meet you. I hope you’ve been enjoying the “Did I really write this comment?” experience as much as I have! (By the time I read this one I realized that there are definitelytwo of us because I’ve never done payroll even once, never mind for over 30 years.)
          Do you think we need to differentiate ourselves as Jean1 and Jean2, or JeanPurple and JeanYellow, or JeanAnythingElse (favorite color, favorite out-of-doors activity, etc.)? Or should we continue unchanged with the hope that our presumable differences in context, content, and writing style will prevent each of us from being confused with the other?

  40. Arielle*

    I saw a post on LinkedIn this morning in which a CEO bragged about having a weekly prayer meeting in the conference room. It included the line “Every HR manual on the planet recommends against doing this but I don’t care.” There were 150,000 likes on it. I was horrified. Do I just live in a bubble? I thought it was pretty common knowledge that workplace-sponsored/enforced religious practice is a terrible idea and also illegal.

      1. Arielle*

        I would be skeptical that at a company where the CEO takes this attitude, it’s truly possible to opt out without penalty, so that was where my “illegal” comment came from. I should have been more clear as to my thought process.

        1. Brogrammer*

          Even if there’s no penalty for not attending, it’s likely that anyone who declines to join the Bible study is required to work normally during that time. So at best, the Bible study is an extra paid break/networking opportunity for Christians only.

    2. Temperance*

      That’s absolutely disgusting. Really happy that I don’t work at that organization! I’m also disgusted at the 150k people who apparently approve of religious intimidation and discrimination.

      Even though it’s not illegal, this very easily could lead to negative consequences for religious minorities in the office. After all, the CEO is leading the meeting, and then he gets to know the people who show up, and then from there they get preferential treatment. Not okay at all.

    3. tink*

      I could only see this being a thing at a religiously affiliated chain. (LifeWay literally asks for extensive information about you and your church-related activities, so something like weekly prayer meetings wouldn’t surprise me at all.) And even that makes me uncomfortable, because not everyone likes to express their beliefs in the same manner.

    5. Office Plant*

      The post just says “prayer meeting”. It doesn’t necessarily involve Christianity or Bibles. It could be inter-faith. Of course that would still exclude people who don’t pray, so the outcome is just as divisive.

  41. anon for this*

    I got a new direct boss about six weeks ago and it’s been a shaky transition. His technical skills are strong, but he is hands-off to the point of coming across as either disengaged or way too passive. There are certain office culture things that he isn’t picking up on, either. I realize that everyone has a learning curve and I’m trying to be patient and not freaking out, but I am freaking out. Several times, I’ve had to pick up the pieces when he’s let something fall through the cracks. And I am so sick of being everybody’s go-to workhorse when sh*t hits the fan. He is not a bad guy, and seems very kind, but I am sort of kicking myself for ignoring my gut feeling about his personality during the interview process.

    Clearly, I’m going to have to work harder to basically force him to engage and make quicker decisions, but it’s giving me such a bad feeling and I can’t really pinpoint why.

    1. a big fish in a small pond*

      Ugh! boss transitions are the worst! When reading your post I found myself wondering if he truly “isn’t picking up on” the office culture, instead of it being intentional/part of his personality (INTJ? INTP?).

  42. she was a fast machine*

    Alright y’all, I need some insight on this question I had sent in to Allison ages ago but she gave me permission to get input on here. I just got a new job, so parts of it aren’t super relevant anymore, it doesn’t NEED to be addressed, but I still would like to get it off my mind.

    When I was 17 I was employed part time by my local community college’s Marketing Department. It was a pretty sweet gig, and I was attending school there while I worked. My manager was the Director of Marketing. To be clear, I was not a student worker; I was a “real” employee. While I was employed I made a few rookie mistakes, as I think most 17 year olds do but I corrected the behavior when addressed with it by my supervisor. I didn’t have my own transportation; most days my dad either dropped me off in the mornings(riding on the back of his motorcycle) or I would walk a half-mile to a bus stop, ride a bus to the nearest stop by the school and walk another half-mile across campus, but I made it work.

    After about six months there, I had a minor outpatient procedure done that involved three stitches in my thigh. Despite how minor it was supposed to be, the stitches got torn open. I don’t know if it was the walking or the riding a motorcycle or a little bit of both, but either way the pain and now open wound made walking incredibly painful and riding the motorcycle was only a little easier. Being stuck at home also brought on a lingering depression tied into my mother’s death earlier in the year, so it was a bad time. I missed a lot of my scheduled shifts, though thankfully had a classmate who had a car and lived nearby and would offer rides to some of my classes so I could at least attend them, but often my work shifts would be in the morning and my classes in the afternoon and I couldn’t get to campus in the morning but could ride with the classmate to the afternoon class. Most of the department knew my schedule, and it was inevitable that they would occasionally see me in the afternoon leaving campus after calling in that morning.

    I never thought to get a note from my doctor, and looking back I realize that I probably didn’t communicate the situation very well to my supervisor. I had planned on pushing through the pain(and to be fair, I was healing well at this point, about a month after the procedure) and returning to work the next Monday, and in the mean time I went to my Friday afternoon class. Well, while I was there, my boss decided to pay a visit to that particular classroom on that day at that time. He spoke with the professor briefly and then made straight for me. In front of the whole class, he quizzed me about why I was in class, why I hadn’t been at work that morning, why I was suddenly well enough to be in class, the whole nine yards. I was incredibly embarrassed and probably should have seen the writing on the wall, but I did my best to apologize and promise I’d be there Monday morning.

    Monday morning came, and unsurprisingly I got called into his office and told to gather my things and leave. I’d missed 19 shifts(not all consecutively) in one month and that was grounds for termination. I left in tears, despite the best efforts of my co-workers to reassure me that they didn’t want me to have to leave and that they’d tried to speak to him. I was offered an exit interview with HR, but I didn’t take it as I was desperate to get away from everyone watching the kid break down crying after being fired.

    It’s been several years since then and I still attend that school(part time) and have a really great job at another non-profit where I get truly glowing reviews from my supervisor all the way to the executive director. I’m on good terms with my former co-workers and boss and occasionally have cause to interact with them in the process of my current work. However, there have been some very interesting positions come open at the school, ones that I would like to apply for, but I’ve always hesitated because of what happened before. I’ve always felt like what happened was unfortunate and what my boss did showing up to my class was pretty unethical, but I never said anything and tried to just move on, as I knew that missing that much work really was enough for them to fire me over and the details didn’t matter. I once typed up an email explaining in detail what my boss had done coming to my classroom, and I almost sent it to the HR department at the school, but in the end I decided not to as I didn’t want to burn any bridges(and I still had to go to school there!).

    But now I want to apply for a job there and I worry I’ll be rejected outright(which is fair; I’ve grown as a person and am not likely to ever be in that situation again, but that’s not on them to take the chance). But if I’m going to be rejected anyways, I want to let them know what my boss did, and let them sort it out, even if nothing comes of it. But then that might cause problems for me as a student AND end the cordial work relationship I have with my former department, all over something that I have no clue if it’s actually anything worth making a fuss over.

    I’m at a loss as to what to do here and I could really use some advice as to which path to take. I would be happy to bury it all and forget about it, but I hate feeling like I’m missing some opportunities by not applying for some of the positions at the school that I think I would be a great fit for.

    1. Intrepid*

      Do you think you could reach out to your old boss (or another higher-up you were on good terms with) on the grounds of asking for career guidance at first, explaining that while you realize you didn’t finish that job well, you’re still in the field, you’ve always respected their work, and you’d love their advice on growing your career? It’s a soft opening, that might give you a chance to re-introduce them to your more-mature, more-accomplished present self, and if it goes well you could mention that you’d love to apply to the university again but weren’t sure where things stood. Your circumstances sound extremely mitigating, and I think they might be inclined to give you a second chance.

      1. she was a fast machine*

        That’s definitely possible, as I’m acquaintances(went to the same church, grew up with her kids) with the HR director for the school. I could definitely approach her with that type of lead-in to put out some feelers and see what her take on things is.

        1. Intrepid*

          The HR director sounds like a great contact! I would think that she’d also have the power to, for example, put a note your file so that you’re more eligible for re-hire.

    2. Lisalee*

      My experience with university jobs is that the different departments hire fairly independently of each other and something from before you graduated college probably won’t be held against you. I would minimize the job on your resume and (obviously) not use references from it. If you have to enter your supervisor’s contact info on an online form, I would pick the “contact me before contacting this employer” option or “do not contact” if that’s not available. Then, if you get to the interview stage, explain the situation there if it seems relevant. I wouldn’t go into what your boss did (which was SUPER inappropriate, btw) just say something like “I was dealing with the side effects of a medical procedure and my mother’s death. As a 17 year old, I didn’t know how to handle the situation and unfortunately my attendance suffered. Since then I’ve worked hard to be a dependable employee.”

      FWIW, “I was very young and made mistakes in response to a difficult medical and personal situation” is a very reasonable explanation of something like that. I wouldn’t bat an eye at it if the rest of your job history is solid.

      1. she was a fast machine*

        The only problem is that in the online application there is a section that asks if you’ve worked for the school before, and if so, why did you leave and the only options are in a dropdown with no room for an explanation. So I’m concerned even if departments are rather independent that my answer (terminated) would automatically send me to the trash without the chance to explain. I do think that opening up a line of communication with the HR Director/staff who I know might actually help me there to keep me from being disqualified based on that alone, but I’m just not completely sure.

        Thankfully, it hasn’t been an issue being hired for any of the jobs I’ve had since then, as they’ve all had room for an explanation and understood completely once I brought up medical issues and my mom’s death.

    3. MsCHX*

      I agree that you should go and talk to the former supervisor to clear the air. Especially since it’s been a few years now.

      I’m sure you see here all the time people struggle with what is workplace norms; and at 17 it was probably even harder to “know” what should have been done in that situation. And honestly, I don’t see your age as an “excuse” but an actual explanation. You thought you were handling it fine but in retrospect, you should have done X,Y, and Z.

      Everything else Intrepid says about the actual conversation is gold I think.

      1. she was a fast machine*

        I’m just not sure what that conversation would look like? My former supervisor was always a very awkward and uncomfortable person, so there’s no chance of it being graceful and smooth, and I don’t know how to bring up “hey remember that time you humiliated me in front of my classmates and I got fired the next day?” without sounding bitter(which I still am, a little bit, admittedly), or awkward. That would be why I’ve put it off for so long.

      1. she was a fast machine*

        TL;DR – Worked at a university as my first “adult” job, had a health issue crop up that meant I missed a lot of work but not necessarily my classes, supervisor found me in class and humiliated me, I ended up being fired, and now I’m wondering if that’s a permanent black stain on my record at the school.

    5. BRR*

      I would ask the HR Director if you are eligible for rehire. I imagine they have it on your file. No explanation or anything further. Just if you are eligible.

      As for your boss’ behavior. That was incredibly inappropriate and unprofessional but I don’t think it’s an issue for HR (he didn’t do anything illegal, it was just awful management) and really at this point I think you just have to let it go. If you bring it up now it’s going to come across as vindictive and I don’t think it will result in anything.

      What I’m not sure of is did he know about why you were missing shifts? Did you call out or just not show up and if you called did you say you couldn’t make it or did you explain your current situation? But even if he knew it was medical, transportation is irrelevant to an employer in most scenarios. And since you were still able to get to campus, if your manager didn’t have any context I can understand why he would not be happy (that doesn’t excuse his behavior).

      1. she was a fast machine*

        The biggest thing is that competition for these types of jobs at the school are pretty fierce as it’s a good place to work, so even if I am technically eligible for rehire, I still am concerned I might unofficially go to the bottom of the list anyways. IDK. I feel like I’m over thinking it (I probably am!).

        I’m okay with letting it go, honestly; I’d be really happy if I could just move on, but it’s been haunting me that maybe he has treated other people this way and they were too scared to say anything, but I’m not sure of the legality of it(that was my issue, if he knew where my class was because I had told my coworkers and it found its way to him, or if he knew because he’d gone looking in my student records, which seems like a violation of privacy).

        I definitely admit I probably wasn’t as on-top of the explanations as I should have been but I did make it pretty clear after my stitches tore that they had torn and walking was painful and when I would call in I would definitely let them know why I couldn’t make it(no transportation and couldn’t walk). When I was there my coworker/lead made an accommodation for me so that I didn’t have to get up and walk much in the office, but I don’t know if he knew about that. And, to be fair, when I called in I always spoke to my coworker/lead, not the supervisor, because he himself was rarely in. And I definitely do remember explaining the situation to my coworker/lead, who did NOT want to fire me, but it’s possible it didn’t make it to the supervisor and I never thought to actually tell him myself since I was scared of him…so yeah. I really don’t know. A lot of that time is kind of foggy because of a) it being years ago, and b) the pain and depression and stuff.

        1. BRR*

          Ugh that sounds pretty rough. I still think you should ask the HR director if you’re eligible for rehire. If you feel like you have the sort of relationship where this is ok I would ask here if she thinks you might have a chance at other positions. Since you still have good relationships with your former coworkers I would ask them if they know anybody in the department you’re applying for and ask them if they would contact that person and give you a reference.

  43. EmilyD*

    Can someone please give me advice on how to face people during the holidays? I have terrible social anxiety and grew up in a tiny family that isn’t religious. Married into a rather large family that isn’t religious but loves the holidays and get togethers, which doesn’t mesh well with said terrible social anxiety, which I’ve been told to basically just get over. All this compounded with the fact that my SIL hates me and called me a sociopath a few years ago – said some really hurtful stuff that I honestly don’t agree with. That being said, I don’t want to be around her as she raises my anxiety levels, but now have been told that avoiding this stuff is just being hella immature. I have no idea what to do. Any advice?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Since this is family-related rather than work-related, would you post it on the weekend (non-work) open thread that goes up tomorrow instead? Thanks!

          1. EmilyD*

            I have and others, but I read this one daily and don’t usually say anything so figured I would ask. Will move it to tomorrow’s post instead. Thanks!

    2. a big fish in a small pond*

      Yikes! I don’t think protecting yourself from destructive, negative people is avoiding or immature.

      If you do choose to go, I’d suggest making all of your interactions projected onto the other person/people. I have overwhelming social anxiety too and it is so difficult, but I’ve found that most people love talking about themselves/their lives, so I just turn every question / interaction back on the other individual and it works a lot of the time.

      Good luck!

  44. Boardwalk Kingdom*

    What is the silliest Company Christmas Party event you guys ever had to endure?
    A while back my company held a Christmas charity auction where the items were donated by employees. One of the bosses actually went a got a huge teddy bear (size of a 5 year old kid) and set it up as the grand finale prize. None of the 200 adult employees was interested in bidding for the huge toy, to the boss’ embarrassment.

    1. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

      At my company’s holiday party we were forced to sing the 12 days of Christmas, but change the words of the song so they were relevant to the company. The CEO picked the winner. It was usually someone who brought props or included her in some way.

      1. Artemesia*

        Yeah I am surprised. Most auctions I have been to for charities and such have a few toys and they are usually really popular –as gifts for kids or grandkids.

    3. Dr. Doll*

      I don’t know if this counts but heh — somehow my husband and I got roped into attending a “gala” at which the university president always bought a table, I guess as a community gesture or something. It was supposed to be black tie, so we dressed up; of course people’s attire ranged from cocktail dresses to jeans and sweaters (seriously?). There was a silent auction, and then following the rubber-chicken dinner, there was a live auction. The piece de resistance was a…gee, how to even describe it. A laser-engraved glass portrait of a well known athlete. It. Was. Hidjus. It was supposed to be worth several thousand $$ and the “winning” bid was well under $1000. I was kind of thankful that the president didn’t attend that dinner so he couldn’t see my face.

    5. Zip Silver*

      We’re doing an escape room thing and going drinking at a beach bar afterwards afterwards. All of us are the same pay grade, though.

  45. everyunhappyjd*

    I am just finishing my first year as a lawyer and I am miserable. I am in a boutique firm doing trust and estate work and while I loved it after one summer here, now I am constantly bored, distracted, frustrated and counting days til the weekend. Lawyers, or anyone with relevant experience, how do I transition to a better, more exciting career? I spent my last year of law school doing a litigation clinic, and I excelled and I loved it. But I had already accepted this job and my career counselor told me to just take this job.

    FWIW, I graduated cum laude from a top 20 law school located in the midwest, i practice in san diego now.

    2. SJ*

      I work with a Director of Development who has a J.D. I don’t know how she made the transition, but it works for her.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      A lot of people in your position shoot for government work. Definitely something you should look into. Your academic background will certainly help!

    4. LawCat*

      Join local bar groups to meet people working in litigation. Other local lawyers are your best bet on getting advice.

      Can you do some pro bono work? Pro bono clinics can also be a good way to meet other lawyers and pick up skills. I volunteered at a pro bono employment law clinic for a year where I learned a ton about employment law and was able to represent clients in UI hearings. This really helped me enter litigation.

      1. Lillian Styx*

        Seconding starting with pro bono work. We do niche litigation for low income people and have a lot of transactional lawyers from big firms take cases with us to get their litigation fix. The cases are short and very rewarding (so I hear). Employment law is good, and I would also recommend public benefits and housing/eviction. Lawyer jobs at nonprofits are scarce and competitive but can be very rewarding!

  46. Intrepid*

    A coworker (Myrtle) told me she lied on her resume. I was brand new to working at Hogwarts and, from the way she said it (and a few sketchy things happening around the office), I assumed our boss (Dumbledore) knew and had chosen to hire her anyway. It sounded like she had a fine/impressive resume, and she lied to make herself SUPER impressive.

    But now, having known both of them a while longer, I’m less sure if Myrtle told anyone but me. I no longer work directly for Dumbledore, but I do still work for Hogwarts and he mentors me. I know he wants me to keep working for Hogwarts, but I’m pretty frustrated with it– and the fact that Myrtle keeps getting better and better opportunities while I keep getting passed over, despite the fact that my work is more advanced & higher quality.

    If it came out in our discussions that I knew Myrtle lied to get hired in the first place, how badly would that reflect on me? Could I get in trouble for it, since I do still work for Hogwarts and it kind of looks like I withheld this information?

    1. Pantsonfire*

      I think you could be justified in saying something if the lie is something that could genuinely impact her ability to do her work (e.g. saying she has a first aid certification when she doesn’t). If it’s something more minor like slightly inflated skills or start and end dates I’d probably leave it alone.

      You also say that you’ve known her for a while now, and depending on the length of time, it might look odd to bring it up now. If for instance, she told you she didn’t have a degree she needs 6 months ago, it seems a little odd that you’re just bringing it up now. Reading your comment, it kind of sounds like your motivation has more to do with your being passed over while Myrtle gets better opportunities, and even if this isn’t the case, I’d be concerned that your boss may get that impression.

      2. Intrepid*

        I am definitely feeling a little resentful, and I agree that I don’t want it to come across like I’m bad-mouthing Myrtle because I’m jealous. The context of the conversation wouldn’t be “fire Myrtle now,” it would be that my old boss keeps encouraging me to apply for openings at Hogwarts, and right now I’m really feeling pretty put off for the organization. I think a reasonable follow-up question for him would be “well, why?” and I am losing a lot of respect because of who they’ve hired– not only Myrtle, but she’s part of the reason.

        I tried to shut down the initial conversation ASAP, so I don’t know all the details of what she changed, but it was more “I majorly inflated my duties” than “I said I had a degree I didn’t have.”

        1. MsCHX*

          I think timing is an issue too. I don’t want to pretend as if lying on your resume is okay – it isn’t. However she’s likely proven herself through experience and work product even if she previously inflated her skill level.

          I’m a little confused, you said you’re being encouraged to apply for better jobs and you don’t want to out of loss of respect for the company…but also that you’re being passed over.

          1. Intrepid*

            Sorry for the confusion! I’m being encouraged to apply for other jobs, and I’ve done so a couple times. But when I do, I don’t get so much as a rejection notice– I just find out someone was hired when the all-staff email goes out saying how excited they are to have Newbie join. So it stings rather more than it should, and it’s rather discouraging to have it happen repeatedly.

        2. Intrepid*

          So I guess to clarify (because the Friday brain is strong with me today) my question is less “how do I have this conversation with my old boss to get Myrtle in trouble?” and more “I still talk with Dumbledore pretty regularly on adjacent topics so this might come up. If it does, will it blow up in my face? Should I be Certain to Avoid at All Costs?”

            1. Intrepid*

              Curses on my Friday brain. I really don’t care about getting Myrtle in trouble; she seems like a -fine person. So my question ISN’T getting her in trouble, but just if I can point to that as one of the reasons I’m frustrated by Hogwarts.

              1. Grits McGee*

                I think you could say that you’re concerned about whether you’ll be able to advance at Hogwarts since you haven’t been able to so far, but I don’t know how you can bring up the issue with Myrtle without loosing credibility. There’s not much you can do about anyone else, but maybe Dumbledore can work with you to see if there’s something holding you back.

                1. MsCHX*

                  I’m so torn on this! Do you think she could mention to Dumbledore, since she is no longer his direct report, what Myrtle said? I do think it has to be completely out of context from “Why am I not advancing here at Hogwarts?”

                2. Grits McGee*

                  MsCHX- I’m not 100% confident on this, but unless it was so egregious that it’d be an ethical violation not to report it, I just don’t see what the benefit would be. Unless what Myrtle lied about was so egregious that it would open Hogwarts up to legal liability, I can’t see a context where it wouldn’t look petty since Myrtle has been here long enough that’s she’s been able advance based on work she’s done on site.

                3. Intrepid*

                  Thank you, I think I’ll try to frame it like this. Dumbledore believes in me more than I do, and I’ve passed my applications along to him when I’ve applied internally since he’d eventually hear about them anyway as my former boss– so I’m doubtful he’ll have anything to add at this point, but I like the idea of explicitly asking for insight just in case.

              2. bb-great*

                I don’t think you should resent the company for something Myrtle did. It’s not like Hogwarts knew there was a problem and mishandled it. They had no idea there was a problem in the first place.

                While I understand why it grates on you (it would bother me too) what Myrtle did on her resume isn’t really relevant to your relationship with the company, and bringing it up is just going to make you sound petty. If you feel they make bad hires, or certain employees don’t pull their weight, or your work isn’t being recognized, talk about that instead.

          2. Pantsonfire*

            If the situation is just that she exaggerated skills on her resume, I’d be hard-pressed to see how that might blow up in your face. Were you responsible for screening her resume or contacting her references?

            You also mentioned that you don’t know the details of what she changed. I think it would be fairly uncommon for you to run into a situation where you have to explain the details of someone else’s resume in a normal office, and even if you were asked to for some bizarre reason, you’re in the clear because you don’t know what she lied about anyway.

            I’d imagine there’s a possibility Dumbledore might say something like “I’m planning to have Myrtle cover this…” and you might say “I don’t know if she has the skills/experience to do that…” but it seems like it should be fairly easy to either a) not say things like that; or b) say that without explaining that she told you she lied on her resume.

    2. a big fish in a small pond*

      I just have to say that I am surprised by and love how many Potterheads are on the replies on this website!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Your issue is with the company not Myrtle. What if this convo with Myrtle never happened, then what? You have a company who is promoting someone else not you.
      I think you need to start looking around to see what other jobs are out there.

      Years ago, I worked at my favorite job. I mean once in a life time favorite job. Years rolled by and newbies got promoted over me. They got the extra hours and so on. It almost killed me but I had to leave. I guess I was liked enough, I worked harder than three people, but for whatever reason it just did not fall together for me. I think the one mistake I made was not leaving sooner. Read the writing on the wall sooner, what you see is what there is to see. Make your decisions accordingly.

  47. bassclefchick*

    Well, it looks like I’m getting the reputation of “the woman who cries”. My first month here was stressful because I carried over stress from being let go so suddenly at the last job. Yesterday I got details for the funeral arrangements for a dear friend (I posted about that in the Saturday open thread).

    I really hate that I cry so easily. There is no excuse, but I’m working on it.

    At least I’ve made it out of the probationary period.

    1. Guilty as charged*

      Good luck! I also have the same problem too in my current job. I really wish I was stronger, but everytime I am overwhelmed I just can’t stop the tears from coming.

    2. ASJ*

      Commiseration here – it happens to me too and I hate it. It just seems to be an automatic reflex that happens when I’m overwhelmed/stressed/upset and it sucks.

      In your case, you have a valid reason. If anyone says anything to you, you might acknowledge it but add that you received details about a funeral for a close friend (if you’re okay with sharing that, of course).

    3. Not So NewReader*

      A lot of sad people place a high value on not crying.
      I got punched in the face and as my lip could be seen actually swelling up, my boss said, “no crying, crying is not allowed.”

      What about cussing, boss?

      Stop telling yourself not to cry. This will be very helpful, I promise. Granted you don’t really want to cry at work, but do try to tell yourself nice things such as, “it’s okay” or “I am okay here”. Reassure yourself instead of ordering yourself to stop. It makes a difference what we tell ourselves.

      And do allow yourself cry times at home or in the car on the way home, whichever. It has to come out of you.

      Also look into a drink with electrolytes in it. Grief and sadnesses really zap our mineral supply, which in turn makes us more weepy, so keep some in the house and sip on it.

  48. Cruciatus*

    So I got rejected for two jobs I applied to internally. Not even interviewed for either or given anything more than generic rejection forms. It’s a bit of a blow. I work at a smallish university in an administrative role, though I have a Master’s, which would have been useful for these other jobs. I’m not really sure where else I can go from here. I was applying for more student oriented jobs–advisor and advocate positions. I’ve looked around to other positions on campus and most everything I’m qualified for is a lateral administrative move (which I’m looking to get away from). There aren’t many of these higher paying non-admin jobs that my qualifications and experience fit in to. And I’ve already been rejected once so even if another comes up who says they’d give me the time of day? I’ve only been here 16 months but I have a good reputation (as far as I can tell). How can you figure out if you’re staying in a dead end job or if you should plan on a new company next time?

    1. college admin*

      I’m an admin at a smallish university as well and my HR rep flat-out told me I needed to leave if I want to advance, because there are so few opportunities to move up here. I’ve been at it a bit longer than you (like 6 years longer) and I wish I’d started applying ages ago because now I’m pigeonholed. So I’m finally taking her advice and looking elsewhere, although I have applied for a couple relevant promotions (to no avail).

      So basically, look around at your colleagues–if they aren’t moving up it’s probably dead-end. I don’t think admin work is the stepping stone it used to be (or was perceived to be, anyway).

    2. SJ*

      Are there any other universities in your area? I might aim to stay 2 full years and plan on applying for different universities, if there’s nothing that fits for you. I was in the same position as you (Master’s degree and nowhere to go from my admin role at the small school) and I moved to a way bigger university with lots more advancement opportunities.

      In the meantime, can you do any professional development to beef up your resume for those student-oriented jobs?

    3. Jennifer*

      I have had similar experiences. Universities basically don’t want to hire you any more unless you’ve already done the job, apparently–I’m getting sunk in interviews because there will be ONE thing on a list of 25 I haven’t done in a previous job already.

    4. Artemesia*

      Have you do anything to become known to the people hiring or running the student oriented operations. My impression of universities is that they really tend to hire known quantities for student oriented roles. Is there some way you can cultivate those connections? Are their events you could volunteer to assist? Or committees you could join to build networks with those in those areas?

      1. Cruciatus*

        I actually work with a lot of departments based on the functions of my job, and have worked with the advising center and think I’ve always been good at helping them get what they need from me. I know the director a little–most departments do their own hiring but have members of other departments on hand for interviews. There isn’t much I can change regarding the scope of my job, which I do think is somewhat problematic. In other departments I think people are a little looser with what they can do, but my supervisor does not encourage anything beyond our jobs, not that I can think of anything that exists that includes these other departments I might like to work in. The one thing I am to help with is new student orientation in the summer which works directly with the advising department. That’s how I got to know many of the advisors in the department a little bit, at least more by face (usually just email). There’s not much more I can do at this point. A lot of people are taking early retirement so maybe, just maybe, I’ll see something else open up. Those jobs should start being posted sometime in the new year so I guess if there’s nothing I see by next summer that’s probably a clue that my time here is limited.

        There are other universities in the area, but I’m at the “best” one, at least economically. They aren’t laying people off left and right or striking as another just did (though that’s a state school). The benefits are better here. They have other campuses across the state but I’m not really interested in moving.

        I just feel unsettled here. And I have since I started. And now that it seems to be so difficult to get hired in other roles I”m qualified for, the feeling is intensifying. Maybe it’s just a wrong fit overall.

        1. overeducated*

          Two rejections is a very small number. It’s way too early to jump to conclusions. Hang in there.

          1. Cruciatus*

            This is true, but the positions in the areas I applied (and am most interested) do not open up very often. Sigh. Wait and see!

        2. Emac*

          I don’t know if you’ll see this now, but do you know the hiring managers for the jobs you applied to? Could you ask them, or someone you know in the advising center, where you could develop more to be a better candidate?

          Also, you say you’re at the economically best university right now, but what about other types of schools – community colleges, for example? The ones in my state, though I know it can vary a lot by state, are pretty stable and pay well. Or if you’re willing to look outside of actual school environments, you could see if there are any adult basic education (ABE) programs in your area – ones that prepare people for high school equivalency tests or teach English to non-native speakers – or workforce development/job training. Non profits or government programs in those areas usually have academic/career coach/navigator/advisors or case managers or retention staff that would all give you direct student advising experience.

  49. Sing it out*

    Here’s a design question: To people who have the opportunity to work in those trendy new offices where there is little to no cubicles or desks, but instead feature a lot of quirky sitting areas, pods and discussion zones (think Google office interiors)… do you guys like it there?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      I loathed working in an open office. It didn’t help that they were constantly blasting trendy music, and the environment was intentionally “fun.” I lasted a few months, realized the industry wasn’t for me, and quit.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE open offices! But at least I have a (tiny) desk.

      For those companies considering not just an open office, but a space in which no one has a permanent space (i.e., employees take their laptops from place to place and sit somewhere different each day), keep in mind that this screws over people with disabilities or injuries who require a specific setup. I know if my company ever decided to go this route, I’d be waving the ADA flag insisting that I get to keep the ergonomic setup I have now.

    5. Leatherwings*

      Hate. I went from working in a totally open office(I had my own dedicated desk though) to having my own space-cubicle-like area and it’s so so so much better. In the open space, someone was always on a distracting phone call or talking to their neighbor. It was also tough to hear everyone eat at their desk all day. Also, I always feel self-conscious about people looking at my screen. I don’t require total privacy, and I don’t waste a lot of time but it is nice to check AAM every once in awhile without worrying people are judging your for it.

    6. Charlotte Collins*

      I gave my notice this week (yay – and thanks, Alison! Your book and blog really helped). Anyway, I am moving from a soulless building from the 1980s with terrible cube/semi open desk design to a public building from the 1930s. I haven’t seen my workspace yet, but I believe it is cubes/partitions set up in a large room with some conference rooms. And the wonderful windows/ceilings that were just part of office building design back then. Not only am I excited about my job, but I am also excited in working in a building from back when architecture was meant for, you know, actual human people.

      I will also be a 2-minute walk from a lake. I’d rather have that than any fancy new fad office design.

    7. Nk*

      Hate open office. Constant noise. No privacy. No place to put stuff (coat or purse). Difficult to concentrate.

    8. BRR*

      Semi related. I was listening to the Second City Podcast (the one Alison was on once) and the guest was saying how his office is open in order to increase collaboration because the next great marketing idea might come from finance and they take turns for who gets to play music on a bluetooth speaker because everybody likes music and I had to turn it off. It sounded terrible. I’ve never met anybody who said they enjoy an open office. I’ve heard some people say they can work in them but I’ve never heard of it increasing collaboration because you work with people when you need to work with people.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Oh God no. I like MY music. Not YOUR music. Plus I can’t concentrate if there is singing. If music is playing, it has to be instrumental. That right there is a deal breaker for me. I once had a job that played a soft rock station all day, a station that repeated the same ten songs over and over and over again. I can go the rest of my life without ever hearing “Maggie May” again.

        No music!!

    10. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Hated it. I had a desk but no drawers or personal wall space. We were encouraged to work in different spaces, but I had analytical work that just didn’t look right on a laptop screen. We were all in one room and it was echo-y as all hell. There were some semi-private spaces, but one of my co-workers used to hog them. The open space was supposed to foster collaboration, but we were all so busy with our own stuff, spontaneous collaboration rarely happened. I prefer a quiet space where I can control the noise and not bother anyone, with drawers where I can put things away.

      My new job (I start on Monday, yay!) has old-fashioned cubicles with high walls. I heard I’m getting an office, which is AWESOME for me.

    11. Office Plant*

      There’s good and bad about it. You get to know your co-workers better. There’s more fun, but also more drama. It can be harder to focus because of all the distractions, but it also makes it easier to collaborate and share knowledge. In other words, it makes it more like high school. Some people thrive in that type of environment, but it’s not for everyone.

    12. Bex*

      I know I’ll be the dissenting opinion, but I LOVE it. I work in a different part of the office every time I come in, I get to sit near different people and really do learn way more about the company and all the different things we do. No one gets elevated to BEC status because you can literally move away from when whenever you want. I like all the collaborate spaces… it really is easier to brainstorm sitting on a couch rather than around a cramped conference table. Our kitchen is huge and gorgeous and has different seating areas. So again, you can choose to eat at the nig communal table which is usually pretty lively, or you can pick a smaller table off to the side with just a couple coworkers. One caveat- we do have “quiet sections” which basically have library rules- no phone calls, no conversations above a whisper, no computer volume, no music. So people can gravitate towards the areas where they are most comfortable.

    13. Pearly Girl*

      I guess I’m the lone dissenter. I was in a brand new building with an open plan and loved it. Partly because everything was new, partly because it was in a beautiful setting, but in general it worked really well. There were plenty of people who had very mixed feelings about going from cubicles to the open plan (and were very vocal about it) but I think almost everyone got used to it.

      There was white noise piped in (not obvious) and very high ceilings, and you could talk to your neighbor or in small clusters and it was no problem. Phone/conference calls were the exception, but almost everyone moved to a “quiet room” for those.

      Honestly, if you’re faced with it, keep an open mind. It felt so much freer to me than being squished into a soulless cubicle.

    14. Mints*

      I prefer it for a lot of types of jobs. My old place was my own desk with dual screens and schlock on my desk and one tower of drawers. I had a good amount of space but no cubicle walls.

      It was super helpful when I was new – I could shadow others and ask questions unobtrusively. I also think it was helpful to fill in a lot of background/industry/technical knowledge. My job was customer service and administrative coordination – I could technically do it without a lot of technical knowledge but I did a lot better as I learned more. I think you learn a lot by osmosis. Sometimes I’d overhear the technical manager explain something to a tech and I’d follow along like 80-90% of the conversation, then after I would ask about the bits I didn’t get.

      That’s a benefit I’m not getting now in a cubicle. It’s a bit easier to focus here, but not hugely.

    15. Sing it out*

      Much thanks everybody for your thoughts! Our design firm is currently handling some office designs, and of course every other magazine touts these quirky open plan spaces as the future of business and the bringer of money. But as somebody who always valued her cubicle, I always had doubts.

  50. VolunteercoordinatorinNOVA*

    I’m really excited as I got some news last week that I’m going to be moved to a new manager (hooray!) and will get to focus more on the things I like to do (verse what my old manager didn’t want to do herself that wasn’t actually part of my job). I’ve been feeling overwhelmed on how to tackle some bigger projects which I’m excited to take on but I think dealing with all of the interoffice stuff was just getting me and clouding my focus. I’ve also struggled at looking at the big picture and breaking it down into manageable steps as I keep thinking about the what if’s and wanting to make sure everything is done well as I know there is lots of resistance to change. If anyone has any suggestions on how to break down projects and create goals/tasks without getting lost in the uncertainly/stress of it all, I’d appreciate it!

  51. DevAssist*

    So in today’s installment of overbearing bosses (sorry- I need to complain), I’ve become aware of some more arbitrary rules that BIG BOSS put in place:

    Coffee must be made BEFORE you clock in. You want coffee? Come in earlier (and yet, we aren’t suppose to arrive before our clock-in time).

    Our paid 10 minute breaks must be taken on the premises. We have a store that is literally next door to our office, and we are not allowed to go and grab a snack or beverage while on our break.

    And finally, I am a vegan but I don’t believe in restricting what other people eat. BIG BOSS does not have a religious objection to pork, but thinks it is unhealthy and so any suggested pork dishes for catered staff events are automatically vetoed, even when suggested as one option of many.

    Items 1 and 2 that I mentioned are “in the handbook” and BIG BOSS said he doesn’t necessarily agree, but the rules are in the handbook. I think that’s a BS statement because BIG BOSS literally is the one who writes and updates the handbook! The handbook also has the disclaimer that rules are subject to change at BIG BOSS’s discretion.

    Ugh. I know I’m complaining but it would be nice to be in an office that treated its employees like adults.

    1. a big fish in a small pond*

      I feel torn as I read your post. I’m afraid I share some of the BIG BOSS qualities and I wonder if it is a question of perspective. I definitely understand your points, but I don’t see it as treating employees like children.

      Are you not allowed to arrive early or not allowed to early (off the clock)? Our staff can arrive early to do personal things, but can’t work early to protect us from labor law violations. It does seem overzealous to make a strict rule about when the coffee can be made, but it might just be a consistency thing for the other not-really-work that other employees want to do at arrival in the morning? We don’t have a lot of “rules” at our office (outside of the legally required ones), but the rules we do have are often to save headaches of this kind – I never want to have to deal with questions about why Sally can make coffee at 8:05 on the clock, but Fred can’t make his toast at that time.

      I’m guessing here, but the paid breaks part – I’m assuming that you’re supposed to be available during your paid breaks (versus unpaid lunch breaks) and if you’re off-site you can’t be asked to help with something – ? As a boss I share this concern about paid breaks because when you take all of the staff and calculate all of the paid breaks and unpaid lunch times and add it together, that is A LOT of time that staff is unavailable to help customers, so requiring staff to stay on-site during the paid breaks (which are not legally required – my staff doesn’t get them!) is a small sacrifice for getting the official break time.

      Ugh, the pork question – I think it is a bit of overreach by the BIG BOSS, but does it really matter in the scheme of things? I’m vegan too, but I know that everyone else eats meat, so we do serve it, but it is just something I have to deal with – but honestly, while I personally think all current slaughtering methods are unnecessarily cruel, the idea of serving veal at a company dinner – ya, I wouldn’t allow that on the group menu. There are surprisingly few perks of being the BIG BOSS, but having a say in the menus is one of them.

      1. Construction Safety*

        As for the paid breaks, there may be a liability / Workers’ Comp issue if something were to happen while they were off-site but still on the clock.

        1. Natalie*

          Nah, workers comp operates on strict liability rather than determining issues of fault. Location is not going to make a difference.

      2. JHunz*

        If it’s a break, requiring people to be available defeats the point. They’re not going to be any less available running next-door to buy something than they would be if they decided to take ten minutes in the bathroom – and I sure hope you wouldn’t attempt to discourage someone from using their break time for THAT.

      3. DevAssist*

        Hey, thanks for your reply! I totally understand your points, and I do think it is (at least partially) a matter of perspective. While I do think these rules are petty, it would be one thing if they were enforced from the beginning.

        Rather, the big problem is lately we have been receiving email notices (or just word-of-mouth notices from our supervisors) regarding company policies and rules that have not been previously enforced. My coworker, who has been working at this company for years, has always gone to the store to grab a snack before returning to the office to spend the remaining 8 or so minutes of her break (the break is 10 minutes). She has even asked BIG BOSS if they wanted anything from the store before going!

        Just today we received notice that BIG BOSS wants to remind us that we cannot leave. I should have made this clear in my original post, but it is the sudden (seemingly random) enforcement of policies that is driving me bonkers.

      4. Natalie*

        “I’m guessing here, but the paid breaks part – I’m assuming that you’re supposed to be available during your paid breaks (versus unpaid lunch breaks) and if you’re off-site you can’t be asked to help with something ”

        Forbidding people from going next door (!) on their unpaid break because their might be something for them to help with seems very much like killing a mosquito with a rocket launcher. Nearly always, whatever that task that has come up with keep for 5-10 minutes while an employee finishes their break. And if you are in some kind of unique field where this isn’t true (firefighters, I guess?) pop your head into the convenience mart next door and tell your employee they need to come back.

    2. Intern Wrangler*

      I often request that we do not serve pork dishes, not due to health reasons, but due to being inclusive. I know of several people from varying religious backgrounds who do not eat pork. So when we are bringing in food for staff or for our participants, I ask that they do not serve any pork dishes.
      Big Boss might also have items in the handbook because of the advice of an HR team or HR attorneys.

    3. krysb*

      I’ve worked at a few companies where you couldn’t leave the company grounds during paid breaks. They’re still paying you, they have the right to restrict you to that.

  52. Manders*

    Urgh, the person helping plan the holiday party this year is being pretty pushy about not only raising money for a gift for the bosses, but asking all of us to tell her personally whether or not we’re giving her $20. This is on top of a $20 white elephant gift exchange. There’s a pretty big salary gap in the office between different groups of employees, and I really cannot afford to spend $40 on workplace gifting this holiday season, but all the people who have given her money are also hitting reply all to her emails so everyone can see who’s chipping in.

    I feel like the biggest grinch ever. But I’ve got a wedding to pay for, and I’m in the low salary group.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      You would be doing other people a big favor if you replied-all and said you’re not giving her $20. It’ll give social permission to other people to do that too.

    2. a big fish in a small pond*

      Ugh! Every single year I remind staff that gifting-up is not appropriate or allowed – I wish everyone did this. I’ve been in your position before and it is awful.

    3. Manders*

      So, update: I chickened out on hitting “reply all,” and responded to her privately instead. There’s a very weird gifting culture in the office because employees get very expensive gifts at the Christmas party (not selected for them specifically, but through a white elephant exchange) and some of the staff who have been here the longest have developed a sense of obligation to the bosses because so much cash is spent on us at the party.

      I’ve privately told some of the people in the lower income group that asking for money for a gift for bosses is a weird practice and not something that would be done at most offices, and they agreed that it was ok to decide not to spend the money on a gift. I think that’s enough social permission for them to also decline to contribute.

      I don’t think I want to die on this particular hill by being the one to make a public statement, since the person who’s in charge of this seems to feel so strongly about it (and she does have a history of doing some socially weird things like making a show of whispering gossip to her friends while other people are in the room). Overall, I think this is another sign I’m not culturally in sync with this office.

    4. paul*

      One of the best things my boss ever did was, after she’d been there *just* long enough to settle in and it was approaching bosses day, she sent out an email explaining gifts flow down and not up, and we shouldn’t get her anything for bosses day.

  53. Leatherwings*

    How do I explain to my friend that it’s really terrible to accept an offer while planning to take another,better offer if/when it comes through?
    I’ve tried explaining that it’s just on principle a crappy thing to do to employers, imagined the situation in reverse, and discussed how it could hurt their professional reputation. But my friend is getting advice from all sides like “They can fire you anytime, so who cares, do what’s best for you” and “It’s unlikely you’ll ever run into this employer again so who cares”

    So frustrating, and they keep talking to me about it so it’s nothing something I’m quite ready to brush off.

        1. animaniactoo*

          Beyond that – if she’s still not going to care, fine. But you don’t have to listen either. Tell her she knows where you stand on it, and to please stop talking to you about it. You’re not going to agree with what she’s planning and you don’t want to hear any more about it, thanks.

    2. paul*

      How long a timeline? we actually hired a person knowing full well they’d just applied at BIG FEDERAL CONTRACTOR JOB and would take it if they got hired, but that it takes them a year + to do all the screenings and background checks. So we got a pretty dang good year and change out of her.

      If she fully thinks she’s going to get it and it’s really short timeline it’s kind of a jerk move but if its something that may take a decent stretch of time, I wouldn’t think it’s a huge deal

  54. Peachy Keen*

    I’m 37.5 weeks pregnant with my first child and am about to pop. I’m planning to work right up until I go into labor (please, PLEASE don’t let my water break while I’m at work!) to maximize the time I get off with the baby. Is it a bad sign that I’m looking forward to twelve weeks of poopy diapers, colic, and sleepless nights because I really think, even if this baby is the hardest baby ever, it’ll be a much needed break from my emotionally taxing public service job?

    2. TMA*

      Definitely not a bad sign. I like my job and don’t consider it emotionally taxing, and I was looking forward to maternity leave, ESPECIALLY during my last month of pregnancy. Everything hurt, I was tired, uncomfortable and barely fit into any of my maternity clothes. I always hesitate to say, “Enjoy every moment!” because some moments aren’t enjoyable. But looking back on the early months with my two kids (now 4 and 18 months) the newborn stage is so special and some of my favorite memories.

    3. E*

      Been there, hope you have a wonderful “vacation”. I had my son last December and spent the next 8 weeks enjoying the sleep deprivation, fussiness, and dirty diapers, plus 4 more weeks of working at home 4 days a week and driving to the office one day per week (pre-negotiated with bosses). I can honestly say that almost a year later I do appreciate the fact that I’m able to drop off my son for wonderful happy daycare times with his aunt and I get a break from the emotional chaos that is a toddler.

    4. Jubilance*

      You are not alone! I’m 36wks and also working up until I deliver, and I find myself daydreaming about my maternity leave. It feels like I have “vacation brain”.

  55. Kirsten*

    Resume advice needed! I am preparing to start the job search, due to a change in management at my current job that has resulted in me being actively discouraged from using the skills of my profession/master’s degree (which had been supported and seen as an asset by the management who hired me) and has turned into a dead-end position. Currently my resume includes the following jobs (listed in opposite order on my resume, of course):
    Job A, April 2010 – January 2011
    Job B, February 2011 – July 2011
    Job C, October 2011 – January 2015
    Job D, June 2014 – present

    Job A was a long-term sub position, so I knew when I was hired that I would be there less than a year. Job B was nightmarish (literally) and dysfunctional, and I ended up being let go during the probationary period, for doing exactly what they had hired me to do. It was such an absurd situation that it’s pretty easy to explain when I’m asked about it, but it still doesn’t look good on my resume because of the short duration. Job C was contracting, which I continued to do through the beginning of Job D. I ultimately phased out of Job C shortly after Job D became full time in November 2014 (I started as an on-call employee).

    I’m meeting with the director of another facility on Monday, and feel like my odds are pretty good (I’m in a specialized position that is rare in my geographic area, and the job has been open for a while). Despite this, I don’t want my job history to reflect badly on me. What is the best way to list things on my resume?
    1. Leave my job history as is, but appear like a bit of a job-hopper, even though I feel like there is justification (subbing, dysfunction, change in job conditions).
    2. Get rid of Job B, but have to explain a 9 month gap in employment.
    3. Get rid of Job B, and list only years instead of months for the other jobs.
    4. Other?

    Grateful for any feedback!

    1. Murphy*

      You could mark A as a temporary position, if it’s not already. Then it’s only B that they may wonder about rather than a pattern of job hopping.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        I would make the one that was temporary as temporary. I would change everything to just years and I would decide if I really needed to mention the toxic job at all.

        A resume can be “selected” or “applicable” work experience. I was once a deckhand on a commercial fishing boat. While that is interesting, I really don’t think it has anything to do with my skills today nor do I mention it much… unless someone needs me to A: clean a salmon in under six cuts or B: dock a boat.

        1. a big fish in a small pond*

          +1
          don’t leave anything out! make it very clear that it was temporary / part of a plan!

          1. Kirsten*

            The one I was wondering about leaving out (Job B) was the toxic one and was definitely NOT part of the plan to have things happen that way. Job A was the temporary one, which was very intentional so I could get into the workforce during a pretty tough time for new grads in my profession (and ended up including some of my most valuable experience!), so I don’t plan to leave that one out.

            1. AnotherLibrarian*

              I think you can leave out Job B, the toxic one. As I said before, “Relevant Work Experience” or “Selected Work Experience” are super useful resume headers. :)

      2. Kirsten*

        I mention something about it involving long-term coverage, but that’s a good idea to make it more obvious by putting it in the title. Thanks!

    2. Karo*

      I’m relatively certain that the just years method has been actively discouraged here, so definitely not that. Other than that I agree with Murphy – Mark A as a temp job, and then you only have one short term stay which will likely be outweighed by two recent relatively long-term jobs.

    3. CAA*

      This doesn’t look bad to me. Your current position is 2.5 years, and your previous one was over 3 years, even though there was overlap. It depends on your industry, but in mine, this would not even raise eyebrows.

      I would put some explanatory text in parens. That’s pretty typical, and I look for it when there’s an overlap of dates to help explain why someone was working multiple jobs. Something like this:

      Job D Title – Company D Name – (part-time) June 2014 – January 2015; (full-time) January 2015 – present
      Job C Title (contract) – Company C Name – October 2011 – January 2015
      Job B Title – Company B Name – February 2011 – July 2011
      Job A Title (maternity leave sub) – Company A Name – April 2010 – January 2011

      This tells me immediately why you left A and C, and why there’s overlap between C and D. I’m still going to ask you about B, but it sounds like you have an answer for that one.

      1. Kirsten*

        Thanks! That is reassuring, and I like the explanatory information. I’ll mess around with things and try to format it more like this.

  56. trubbled*

    I work at an office .6 miles from my home, I’ve just found out that my supervisor is requiring me to switch to a different office that will school traffic will be a 45 min drive to work and at least 30 min drive home. This change will take place this winter, in my 3rd trimester. I take care of my elderly grandmother and count on being home in time to make sure shes taken her medication and to fix her lunch.
    This will also change my day care plans requiring me to pay for child care rather than a family member who must leave for work prior to me getting home- we swap day care so she too will have to pay someone to watch her child.
    This is a huge inconvenience and my supervisor is completely aware that the only reason i went from full time to part time and moved to this office was that it was perfect for my situation.

    she refuses to change her mind, its all up to her- she said it’s not a matter of performance she just wants to move people. there are no benefits to do thins except she has control. Advice?

    1. LCL*

      Third trimester and eldercare and childcare and she knows it? She is trying to get rid of you. I have no advice, and your supervisor is a creep.

      1. Chaordic One*

        I hate to say this, but I have to agree with LCL. It sounds like your supervisor wants to get rid of you by making your job difficult. She’s a jerk.

    2. E*

      Was this pre-negotiated at all before you accepted the job (i.e. that you needed to work in the closer location only)? I left my last job for this reason, they told me on a Friday that the next Monday I’d be working across town. I carpooled the hour drive with my fiancé to the current location, so there was no way I could change over. They were less than concerned, so they found themselves lacking an employee on equally short notice. This place had other issues, it wasn’t a loss and I found a better job very soon after.

    3. MsCHX*

      Not negating your work at all – I have a handful of very part-time employees who work their schedules for whatever personal reasons…However, is the income from this job necessary for your family’s survival?

      If not, quit and look for a new job once you’re ready to return after baby is born. She is being unreasonable. If there is no performance issue or actual business need for her to send *you* to the other office, she’s just being a jerk.

  57. De Minimis*

    I’m excited….there’s a job announcement at my previous employer [fed agency] that is somewhat nearby [a little over an hour’s drive, and it may be possible to take Amtrak instead of driving.]

    I’ve had my fill of the non-profit world, or at least this particular non-profit. Love the people, love the mission, hate my actual job and am not compatible with my supervisor. Overly convoluted and archaic accounting system, half of my job is spent sifting through paper and dealing with things like internal transfers where we write checks to ourselves between two separate checking accounts.

    The only real snag is that it’s a slightly higher federal grade than my last job, but I feel like I’m qualified for it. I think also they may have difficulty finding other candidates that meet their hiring preference requirements [Indian preference, which I have.] Really hope it works out…

    1. Emi.*

      I was under the impression that you qualified for GS-X by having work experience at GS-(X-1), so applying to something higher should be fine. Is that wrong?

      Anyway, good luck! :)

      1. De Minimis*

        This would be skipping a grade, it’s two grades ahead of my previous job. However, I’m well qualified for jobs that are a grade below it, so it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch. I worked in my previous job with them for nearly 3 years and had quite a bit of responsibility that actually may have gone a bit beyond that grade of job. I was responsible for financial management during my last year there and made decisions about expenditures as far as the program budget to which they’d go [we had about six or seven different programs.] I was also the person who would report to our executive staff on the financial status of each program during the year.

        For Feds out there, this is grade 12 and my previous job was grade 9.

        1. De Minimis*

          …and although grade 10 does exist, it’s not part of this particular career ladder [it goes from 9 to 11 to 12.]

          I’ve never understood the grade 10 jobs, actually…I think they are on a different pay scale perhaps or don’t exist within my occupation series. We had at least one at my last job, but he was a maintenance/facilities supervisor.

          1. a random gs-12*

            You can skip a grade if you’re coming in from an externally competed posting. The way to sell it is that your current non-gov position fulfills the requirement of the “52 weeks at GS-11 or equivalent experience” so that you’re -12 eligible.

  58. Addison*

    Holiday party related question!

    Is it wrong to tell staff not to bring their toddlers to our office holiday party? It’s at a country club and there will be gambling tables, drinking, more than 100 people, and live music (noisy!). One staff member brought his baby without asking anyone if he could two years ago (same place, same theme more or less) and it was kind of a weird time. So we shut him and anyone else who mentioned it down, you know, gently: “We want to keep the age range at 18 or over” “Please keep the little ones at home” etc but baby guy from 2 years ago and a couple other people have been griping. By now it’s a little late since the party is tonight(!! eeee) but it is kinda bugging me in the back of my mind. I’ve been spearheading the holiday party for the last three years almost entirely by myself, and even though my boss backed my “no babies” play, I still get to be the entire Complaints Department.

    1. Cass*

      If it’s absolutely no kids, that makes sense. If you were delineating between toddlers and older kids, then that would probably get murky.

    2. Leatherwings*

      Well it’s definitely too late this year, but in the future I think that’s okay as long as the party is truly optional. I don’t think it’s okay to basically require that staff get a babysitter to attend a mandatory work event.

      Even as a non-parent though I can kind of understand that it would be annoying to be expected to line up child care to attend.

      1. Addison*

        Oh yeah, totally optional! And we had invites going out as early as I think Septemberish, so there was lots of time to plan if anyone needed childcare.

    3. Nota Llama*

      It’s not wrong but it’s probably too late for tonight’s party. Next year make it clear on the invitation that it’s employee + a guest over 18.

    4. Temperance*

      Uh, you shouldn’t have to explicitly tell people that their babies aren’t invited. I mean, WTF, it’s a work holiday party, not a damn picnic.

      1. Leatherwings*

        idk, kids have been allowed at literally every holiday party I’ve ever had. They’ve explicitly been labeled family friendly, actually. It’s common enough that it make sense to specify.

        1. Temperance*

          I’ve been to many work holiday parties, and none have ever included children. I didn’t think that it was the norm whatosever.

          1. Newton Geizler*

            This is definitely dependent on your office culture. My first job at a big company we did not allow children at the holiday party (although there was at least one summer event people could bring kids to). However, the job I’m at now is encouraging everyone to bring their families to the party, including kids.

        2. TheCupcakeCounter*

          I’m with Temperance. Everywhere I’ve worked the holiday party has been employee only or employee + SO. Several places have had a summer event that is family oriented but never the holiday party. There have been special family and friend hours to use facilities when the public cannot but it wasn’t the official holiday party.

      3. krysb*

        This. To me, where there’s booze, there shouldn’t be kids (unless it’s your own home). You never know, I may be the person to give your kid his/her first sip of happy juice.

    5. VolunteercoordinatorinNOVA*

      Not at all! If it was at a park or some child friendly place during the day, than maybe I could understand (even then no is still no!) but it’s at night where people will be drinking and gambling so that totally makes sense. People who want to bring their pets (non-service animals of course) and children everywhere (even when it doesn’t make sense) drive me nuts. It reminds me of an episode of the office where they are having a casino night and Michael wants a group of boy scouts to come into accept a check and Toby (poor Toby) is like maybe we shouldn’t have kids in a warehouse at night where people will be drinking and gambling and it totally goes over Michael’s head.

    6. EddieSherbert*

      I think it’s fine… personally, my assumption would be no children allowed? Like, even if you didn’t say anything.
      But I’ve also had work parties where spouses/partners weren’t invited, and it didn’t seem to be a big deal to people at my office.

      And, if it is a deal breaker for someone, they just won’t go to the (I assume voluntary?) party.

    7. Jax*

      My partner’s work is having a holiday party at a children’s science museum and the invitation states “adults only, please.” Usually work get-togethers they plan are family friendly, but I think one coworker ruined it during the super casual”summer fun” event they held in the parking lot. There were two areas-one for water play and one that was supposed to be completely dry. One of coworker’s kids ran around the dry area spraying everyone and their food with a water gun and all coworker could say was “Isn’t he cute?” Partner made a curt comment to the kid telling him to play elsewhere and got THE DEATH STARE from the kid’s mom.

      So, agreed, it’s too late for this year but definitely state that it is for adults only next year if that is a concern.

    8. MsCHX*

      WOW. This should be clear IMO. I cannot believe someone would bring a toddler/child to their office holiday party – period. Summer picnic or BBQ/cookout – sure, unless it’s expressly forbidden. Especially with the theme.

      And I do not think it has to be ZERO kids or ALL kids. My last employer (privately owned) put on a major holiday party every year. And one year had a huge anniversary party that was earlier in the evening on a Saturday. My teens came for about 1/2 hour and some other’s older kids too. If I had a 2 year old I would know not to bring my 2 year old. Ugh.

    9. paul*

      as a parent ? IT’s 100% fine. Just don’t get snarky if some people elect not to go or simply can’t make. It’s wildly inappropriate to try to take kids *everywhere* but that does mean there’s some events you skip on you know?

    10. OhBehave*

      Get a sitter or don’t go – easy as pie! Who brings kids to a work party? I can understand a summer party, but ONLY if it was stated that children were welcome. I can also, maybe understand if the baby was still solely breastfeeding. Most work parties are just not fun for kids.
      If they continue to complain just tell them they will be missed!

    11. Tabby Baltimore*

      I know the party’s long over by now, but, for next year, you might be able to bring more weight to your “no kids” rule by finding out ahead of time what your county’s or state’s laws are governing whether children may be present at a venue in which gambling is occurring. It’s possible that state law explicitly forbids children under 18 at a site which is hosting gambling activities, regardless of whether those activities are occurring in a purpose-built casino, or a rented hall in a private club. (I would think the country club’s general counsel could answer this.) Best of luck.

  59. Nota Llama*

    My old job gave employees shirts and jackets for working on long term projects. Is it weird to wear a polo shirt from old job at new job? I have a lot of them and they are within dress code except for it maybe being weird to have embroidery with a project and company name from a different company.

    1. Not Karen*

      I wouldn’t at a professional job, seems a little like competition maybe? I once wore my summer camp staff t-shirt to my college library checkout job, but that’s a little different…

    2. Manders*

      It would be a little weird to wear the branded swag of a company you no longer work for at a new job. What about getting an embroidered patch to sew over the company’s logo?

    3. Emi.*

      Is there any chance it could look like an ethics problem? E.g. if the old company bids on contracts for the new company, it might look like you’re picking up freebies when you shouldn’t be. Otherwise I think it’s just kind of weird.

    4. Jessesgirl72*

      Yes it’s weird. And yes, I know- they are usually good quality, and now basically useless.

      The only thing I still use is the logo duffle bag I got as a 5 yr anniversary present. I use it as a gym bag for the gym inside NewJob, because it’s just a gym bag that primarily lives in the locker.

      1. Nota Llama*

        They’re all nicer quality than I usually buy for myself. Guess I’ll just have to suck it up and go shopping.

    5. Susan*

      I think it depends on the workplace. Where I work, there are quite a few people who wear stuff with logos from their previous jobs. I have a really nice jacket with my ex-employer’s logo, and I wear it all the time. I have actually seen a guy at my current job wearing the same jacket with the same logo (from a company 500 miles from here). I think you pay attention to whether this is common at your company; you definitely wouldn’t want to be the only one, but if a lot of other people do it, it’s probably fine.

    6. Elizabeth West*

      I wouldn’t wear a logo shirt, but I have a very nice leather padfolio from NewExJob and I plan on using it. I paid for it and it’s nice, and you can barely see the logo. Padfolios are great for interviews. I used to have one I bought at the flea market with a logo from a place I never worked, and nobody ever said a thing about that.

    7. Chaordic One*

      If your job was not a direct competitor to your new job, then it shouldn’t be too weird. Especially if your old job was the kind of place where a member of the public might want to wear a shirt or jacket with the same logo as your old job.

      Maybe you need to check with your supervisors at new job?

  60. Cass*

    Update on FLSA – the university I work for announced they would be honoring the raises but keeping exempt staff at exempt until something changes.

  61. tiny hippo*

    Argh! I work at a state university and a couple of people in my unit were due to get salary bumped over the exempt threshold. It was about $1K for each, so the co-workers were pretty pleased. And now we’ve been told the raises are canceled due to the law being put on hold. Happy holidays, state workers!

    1. Cass*

      Bummer! (As I said above,) my state related university is keeping the raises but keeping exempt staff as-is for now.

  62. Can't. Get. To. Work. On. Time.*

    I have fallen into a pattern of getting to work late and I can’t get out of it. It doesn’t matter what I do. If I wake up earlier, I manage to squander the time (too long reading the news, too long getting dressed, etc). It’s clearly become a habitual/psychological problem. I haven’t received any flack for it at work – we’re a pretty casual office with a range of arrival times – but I want to fix it before it gets so bad that someone says something to me.

    Has anyone dealt with this before? Any advice for getting out of the late-to-work rut?

    1. Leatherwings*

      I’ve dealt with this before! Same situation in terms of the flexible work environment. It was really really hard to change my routine and the way I managed was by setting a hard deadline in the morning to leave by (versus a deadline of time to arrive at work, which was easier for me to overrun) and doing all the mandatory things in the morning first. So I’d shower, do basic makeup and hair and eat and then if I had ended up having extra time I would add eyeshadow or try on different jackets/shoes to wear.

      I also stopped letting myself get on my phone for anything. I checked the weather the night before and my email on my commute and that helped.

    2. Murphy*

      Set alarms on your phone for different parts of your morning routine. I just have two (“wake up” and “get out of bed” if I haven’t already) but I know what time I have to be done getting ready and moving to the kitchen for breakfast, so I could easily set an alarm then. You can move backwards from when you need to leave.

    3. Gladiator*

      Same as Leatherwings, but also I found that choosing an outfit the night before has made my morning routine way more efficient. You won’t believe how much time you spend looking for your favorite pair of tights, or checking the drier for the right tank top.

      1. Murphy*

        Yes! If I run late, this is often what caused it. Especially because I’m pregnant now and not everything in my wardrobe fits anymore.

        1. SJ*

          Haha! Toward the very end of my boss’s pregnancy (she’s currently out on maternity leave), she was like, “Welp, getting dressed in the morning is a lot easier now that basically only 4 things in my possession actually fit me.”

          1. Murphy*

            Yeah, my options are definitely dwindling! But sometimes I try something and go to the mirror, and I just have to take it right back off again.

            1. Emi.*

              Could you take some time on the weekend to try everything on, so you’d have a bunch of Officially Okay outfits, and then make a rule that you’re not allowed to second-guess yourself?

              1. Murphy*

                Yes, and I really need to take things out of the closet that don’t fit (like any nonmaternity pants) but the main problems are that what actually fits is still changing, and the weather is getting colder. It’s a fixable but annoying problem.

    4. NASA*

      OMG SAME. This is me right now. I’ll be following this thread…

      I’m supposed to be at work at X time and I get there an hour later without fail. I do not get any flack either (I work in a field office, not the main office).

      I know why I do it and I need to get over it: the site supervisor (not my supervisor and has no say over me whatsoever but likes to pretend she does) is annoying and she arrives 30 mins before me. If I arrive at X time, it’ll just be me and her until someone shows up about 30 mins later. I do not want to deal with her. Ever. SHe is annoying and nosy and talks incessantly. So I started arriving to work later and later and now I can’t break the habit. I always tell myself, “next week, NASA, next week you will arrive at work on time again!” It has yet to happen. I’ve probably been doing this for 3 months now.

      Ok, but for real. Next week each night before…I will lay out all my clothes. Prep my gym bag. Prep breakfast and lunch. We can do this!

    5. AnotherLibrarian*

      Things that help me include: Having a set time to leave the house and an alarm to remind me. Setting that time with an extra 10 minutes of wiggle room also really helps. I always choose my outfit the night before and make sure it is pressed, clean.. whatever.

      But I think the thing that really helps me is trying to find the positive reason why I want to do it. For example, I like getting 20 to 30 minutes of “no one in the office but me” time and that really helps me remember why I am getting up earlier.

    6. EddieSherbert*

      I’m a big fan of showering, packing food, and picking out clothes the night before.

      I also give myself a set “time I have leave by no matter what,” that has TOTALLY led to me going to work without make-up, or a packed lunch, or whatever. And if I’m ready early – I leave anyways. No reading the paper or second-guessing my outfit or playing with the cat. Guess what? You’re going to be early today.

    7. SJ*

      I’m habitually about 5 minutes late every day, and it’s because I just can’t get out of bed when my three alarms go off. I always doze off for another 20-30 minutes, so even though I have all my stuff packed and picked out the night before, which makes the morning routine itself really easy, I get out the door later than I wanted to. I have major sinus problems and don’t sleep well, so I know this is a huge contributing factor. I need to start putting my phone/alarm on the other side of the room so I have to get up to shut it off.

      Honestly, I WOULD be fine time-wise even with the lie-in every day, but my skincare routine takes time in the morning because everything needs like 5-10 minutes to absorb :/ I’ve pared it down to the essentials, but I have rosacea and can’t really skip anything or my skin will freak.

      1. BRR*

        Could you set your alarms for an earlier time? Also can you set them a couple minutes apart? My husband has his set for 6:00, 6:05, and 6:10.

    8. Manders*

      When I’m really struggling with distraction, I play a podcast or music on my phone. For some reason, it’s easier to go through the motions of routine but annoying tasks if you’re just a tiny bit distracted by listening to something.

      I also pre-prep lunch and shower the night before, and I usually don’t bother with makeup on work days. I should probably plan outfits in advance too, but the weather’s often unpredictable where I live.

      1. Emilia Bedelia*

        I like to use music as an “alarm” also to keep track of time- I’ll play a playlist in order and so I know when a certain song plays, I should leave by the time it’s over.

        1. Venus Supreme*

          Yup! This is similar to how I track my time. I don’t play music, but I tell myself I need to get out of bed by X time, finish makeup by X time, and be out the door at X time.

          I had an issue a couple months ago where my boss called me out on my tardiness and these mini alarms helped keep me on track.

    9. Seal*

      I’ve struggled with this for years. It all goes back to my first FT job, where coming in late became a coping mechanism to avoid the office bullies who loved targeting me. When I’ve started a new job, I’m very good at coming in early but eventually I start backsliding. I’ve been fortunate to work for places where coming in at a certain time isn’t a requirement, but my inability to come in at a consistently early time is personally embarrassing.

      What helps to an extent for me is to get my clothes and lunch ready the night before, and to stick to a morning routine. Where I get hung up is getting to bed at a decent hour so I can get up on time, although I’m pushing myself to do better on that. Interestingly, if there’s something I absolutely HAVE to be up early for, like a meeting or an interview, I have no problem doing so. It’s the day-to-day that does me in.

    10. Lluviata*

      I have the same problem, and these suggestions are great. Thanks.

      I’ll add my $.02. How do you feel about your work mornings? I know the cause of my lateness is that I dread going to work… so I put off doing it as much as possible. Try making your mornings more enjoyable so you have something to look forward to. Some ideas: get good coffee on the way to work as a treat, or rearrange your projects so you are working on something you like first thing.

    11. Tris Prior*

      If I get on my laptop or phone AT ALL in the morning, even to check 1 thing, I am sunk because I will get sucked in. So I no longer do that. I read Facebook and check email on the train during my commute now.

      Seconding everyone who says pick out clothing (down to socks/tights and underwear) and lay it out the night before, pack lunch the night before, etc. One thing I need to start doing is to put the water and coffee grounds in the coffee pot the night before, and hit the “brew” button before I get in the shower; this morning I was late because I forgot to start the coffee until I was almost ready to leave. Oops.

    12. MsCHX*

      This is what worked for me:
      While I don’t chose *an outfit* the night before, I do put out a few looks on Sunday. I may go through all 2-3 during that week or none. But they are things I know work / work together / look good on / fits properly and in a pinch I can grab and go.

      NOT touching my cell phone until it’s time to go. It’s so easy to squander time browsing.

      While showering, I am mentally preparing my tote bag – what I’m going to take for breakfast/lunch (I always eat at work, I’m not hungry right away in the morning), what other random things I may need to take to work with me, etc. Which limits the scrambling around.

    13. Susan*

      There was a post about this a couple of months ago with tons of advice (700+ comments). I will reply again with a link, but you can also find it with a site search for ask the readers: how can I stop being late.

    14. Elizabeth West*

      At NewExJob, I could be late and no one cared. I doubt that will be true elsewhere. So I plan to start a night-before routine when I get a job.

      1. Shower/wash hair (since I went blonde, my styling routine has changed and I wash my hair a lot less, and sleeping in a damp French braid gives me mad curls, so it’s a huge time saver).
      2. Pick out outfits (and I can wear the same pants more than once, unless I spill). I plan to construct some ahead of time that match and try to get a basic matching wardrobe together. Sigh–no more jeans and t-shirts, I’m sure.
      3. Pack as much lunch as possible.
      4. I hate eating first thing in the morning, but I probably won’t be able to make brekkie at work anymore, so I will make it ahead too. Also, my coffeemaker has a timer function so I can set it to brew automatically.
      5. PUT A NOTE BY THE FRONT DOOR to remind me of the things I have to have with me that day! Like purse, phone, lunch, etc. so I don’t walk out without them.
      6. Set a hard bedtime and a hard deadline for when all this has to be done, so I have time to wind down before bed.

      That last one will be especially important since I will have to do the bulk of my writing outside work hours. I’ll have to be scheduled to death, but that will be good for me!

    15. Not So NewReader*

      I worked at a job where being one minute late was on a par with a murder crime.

      I really hated getting moving in the morning.
      I did a number of things but the one thing that really helped me was getting up at the same time every day, even weekends. On weekends I could look forward to a nap, which was nice.

      I had one job where the hours were different each day. I scared the crap out of myself because I just did not care if I got there on time or not. This is so not me. If you read through the suggestions and nothing resonates, nothing helps, please take a hard look at the your job/workplace. It could be as simple as you are bored out of your mind by your work. Or it could be something worse.

  63. Loopy*

    So I’ve been on vacation this past week (yay). Though I had trouble not letting my mind occasionally wonder what’s piling up in my email box or if problems were arising while I was gone. I’m the only person with my position on my team now so there’s no one covering for me. I couldn’t help but occasionally feel nervous about what may be waiting for me when I return.

    Tips in the future for how to firmly not worry about work while away? To be fair I didn’t get a peep from work and they have my cell so I’m hoping that means nothing could have gone too badly without me…

    1. Emi.*

      What if you make a Plan for dealing with everything when you get back? Presumably you have some sort of plan, but I mean writing down a list of everything you’ll be doing on your first day or two back, and maybe scheduling it for a time of day. This kind of thing helps me because putting something down on paper gives me permission not to carry it in my head anymore, and planning for things that may go wrong is a way of reminding myself that I’ll be able to deal with them if they do.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Sometimes I could talk myself down, but many times I couldn’t at one particular job. I decided that it would be a hot mess when I got back and that was to be expected.

      One unexpected thing that happened for me was that over time I realized no matter what got thrown at me, I worked through it. I resolved the matters. It took time for me to find that in myself. The toxic boss maligning me, well, that was something that I could not work through. But the pile up itself, I always managed to drill down through it. And I was proud of me for developing that skill. When I got back I focused on rounding up the problems and issues. Then I prioritized. Sometimes I could send out a question on problem B and I could finish problem A while waiting for an answer on problem B. I tried to double up like that wherever possible. That helped, too.

  64. Rachel Greene*

    During the summer, i applied for a position at my old company. I left on very good terms. I basically left because at the time, there was no room for growth and my salary was low and I hadnt had a raise in over three years. This was during the Great Recession.

    Fast forward to this year. They are hiring like gangbusters and have been doing very financially well for the past several years. I applied for a more senior position than I held there in the past. I reached out to my manager and let him know I was applying. The account deals with healthcare, which I have several years of experience with. Old manager seemed thrilled I was applying and said the company would love to have me back. This position is not in his department.

    I havent heard one word since I applied. Nothing. Ive moved on to a different that Im happy with but Im just curious as to why it never moved any further. Any ideas?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      How long has it been? And how well do you know the manager? I think those are the deciding factors in reaching out to ask. But also, if the manager you know had nothing to do with the hiring, then they might not know either.

  65. Is this "normal" for non-profits?*

    I want to know if this is a common practice with non-profit boards. There was an issue that came to the board, and there were different opinions on how it should be handled, with the staff of the organization having one opinion, and one of the board members (let’s call her Claire) with a different opinion. The issue was discussed and it felt like there was group consensus on how the situation should be handled, although no formal motion was made.

    As soon as the meeting was adjourned, Claire (who by the way had just resigned after chairing the board for three years) and a few other board members left the room. Once she had gone, the staff and the remaining board members essentially said “we’re not going to do what Claire wanted, we’re going to do what we want.”

    Is this common, that staff essentially do whatever they think is best and use their board to rubber-stamp their decisions (and then do whatever they think is best even if the board doesn’t agree)?

    1. zora*

      ouch. No, in my experience that is not normal, or at least not how a functional nonprofit should works. And I’ve worked for some pretty dysfunctional nonprofits where that still wouldn’t happen.

      In my experience, a good nonprofit would have a policy in place for situations where there are differing opinions among key stakeholders, and it would be in the bylaws. Not necessarily that the board would always be able to overrule the staff, because they also have a stake in decisions. But it would either be a clear consensus model, or rules around what kind of majority vote is needed to make a final decision. In this case I would see a few different ways of coming to a decision, but it would be very much understood among everyone involved that no one (either board members or staff) are going to say one thing in the room, and then go behind someone’s back to deliberately undermine other stakeholders. Even if a decision gets made that a high-level staff person disagrees with, they would work in good faith to execute that decision, and if it becomes clear during the process that it is definitively not going to work, there would be a process to bring that information back to the group to revisit the decision.

      Also, most nonprofits I’ve worked in, there is an established culture around who is sort of trusted to make the final call, and everyone else defers to them, and it’s usually that the board defers to the Executive Director (or top staff person) to make the final call since they are in charge of execution at the end of the day. It would be very weird to have one board member, even if it’s the President, overrule the entire staff and board.

      This sounds terrible and dysfunctional to me, but if Claire is resigning the entire board, and leaving the organization, I guess maybe everyone considers the problem has solved itself? But still, even in nonprofits with people who are super conflict-averse, this seems like a terrible way to function.

        1. OP*

          No worries and thanks! Glad to hear this isn’t typical. I actually resigned the board after this happened (there were other factors as to why and this was just the hair that broke the camel’s back) but wanted to know if this sort of thing happens a lot with non-profit leadership. Thanks for your comments!

          1. zora*

            You did exactly the right thing, I would have noped out of there as soon as possible. That is serious dysfunction.

    2. Intern Wrangler*

      This is not common. Most boards are able to identify who has final decision-making authority, whether it is staff and board. And they would vote on actionable items, so that there is a record of the decision. Sometimes an executive director will bring an issue forward to the board to get feedback even when it is their scope of authority. They should still clarify who is making the decision.
      It is very important that non profit boards do more than rubber stamp staff decisions. They were asked to be on the board to bring their different opinions and by being on the board, they do have some responsibility, even liability, for the actions of the organization.

      1. zora*

        Your last sentence is important and something I totally neglected in my giant novel above. Liability is serious, the board is usually legally and financially liable for the actions of the org, so for the staff to go behind their back for anything major is usually considered completely uncool. If staff disagrees with them that strongly, they have to figure out the right arguments to change the board’s mind.

    3. dragocucina*

      It really depends upon the legal authority of the Board. There are policies and then there are procedures. Our Board has the legal authority to set policy. Open meeting laws apply and if a majority votes then that is the policy. This usually applies to budgets as well. The procedures to implement the policies may be changed. There is no formal policy restricting the number of renewals patrons could have. I had the authority to up it from 1 renewal to 2 renewals. Big problems can happen when boards aren’t kept in the loop. I give mine more information than they sometimes want, but when there is any question there has been full discussion.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Nothing in your story indicates this is a healthy board.

      I have no idea how normal it is but it’s not how boards should work.

      The only ray of hope I saw here was that no formal motion was made before Claire left. Maybe the board knew that Claire’s idea sucked but they just wanted to get her out of there?

      Over all this is an organization in chaos. The board says one thing, then a while later says another thing, so of course, with that type of leadership staff is going to do as they wish. The board has sent out a covert message saying, “Leadership is up for grabs, the person who pushes their agenda the hardest wins.”

      Hopefully with Claire gone the board will regroup somehow.

      There should be a set of bylaws for the board to follow. The bylaws should cover the board as a group and cover the expectations of individual members. There should be provisions for what to do if the board is in disagreement OR if one particular board member acts out in some manner. The bylaws would also outline how to control a meeting and how to process agenda items. Roberts Rules of Order comes to mind. An idea is presented, there is discussion, someone makes a motion, someone else seconds. Then more discussion. Then a vote. The secretary records the results of the vote.

      It does not sound like you saw any of this. So, yeah, lots of problems going on there.
      NPOs get funding from somewhere. If they are getting government monies or even public monies at some point an auditor might appear. One of the many, many things an auditor will be interested in is how meetings are conducted and how decisions are made. If the auditor is UNhappy enough with her findings, those government monies could “go away”.

  66. lunches anonymous*

    I work on a small team (less than ten people). There has been a lot of tension between two senior team members in the past few weeks, and that tension has been felt by everyone. We have a team holiday lunch coming up–one that was organized specifically so that everyone could attend. I am honestly not interested in going, mostly because I feel that it will be an awkward outing, but I cannot think of a way to get out of it since the date worked out with everyone’s schedule. Does anyone have any suggestions?
    Note: I cannot use the excuse that I have too much work to do at my desk.

    1. Leatherwings*

      Sounds like they’re expecting everyone to attend, so unless you want to come down with a mysterious flu that day it would probably be best to suck it up and go for a couple hours.

    2. Random Lurker*

      Maybe the lunch can ease tensions a bit? Just getting out of the office and steering the conversation to safe, non-work topics can really help your fighting teammates find some middle ground.

    3. Grits McGee*

      If you can’t call out sick that day, try the anthropologist trick- pretend you’re an anthropologist observing a foreign culture during the lunch. Take notes in your head, think of a really good title for your ethnography (Instead of Coming of Age in Samoa what about Coming of Rage in Mimosas?)

    4. Mints*

      I don’t think you can get out of lunch by itself unless you’re willing to call out the whole rest of the day. I’d try to sit next to a buddy and avoid the drama queens as much as possible

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yep, buddy system. Find a like minded person and ask if the two of you can sit together and kind of buffer each other from the goings on.
        You might be able to strategically select a seat away from the biggest mouths.

        Above all else try not to wear other people’s awkwardness for them. If you are basically happy in life then go and BE that basically happy person. Ignore or gloss over any drama, Eeyore stuff or whatever negative you encounter.

  67. Lillian Styx*

    I got a bombshell this week… My boss (the ED) told me that she plans on handing in her resignation and transitioning out by June. I’m sad because I like her but I know there are a mountain of reasons why this will be good for her and for the agency. Still… :( I actually cried about it. I lost my best work buddy this year and now I’m gonna lose my favorite boss ever.

    After she goes the most long-serving staff will be the program director and me. I do want to stay as long as I am happy here but maybe it’s just sad that a non-director has more seniority than just about everyone else. Maybe it’s a sign to move on but I can’t help but want to cling to the known!

    Commiseration please? Or chastisement… I’m perfectly open to any and all reality-checks.

    1. ASJ*

      I wouldn’t necessarily call it a sign to move on. Maybe a sign to continue onward with eyes wide open? It’s possible that you will like your boss’s replacement – maybe not as much, but enough to stay.

      1. the_scientist*

        Agreed- I get it! Losing a great boss really sucks, but I wouldn’t go into panic mode yet. Do you trust whoever is hiring to make a good decision? Are you able to have input into the hiring process? Keep your eyes open, but don’t panic :)

    2. Elizabeth West*

      I don’t have any advice but I know how you feel. When my fabulous boss announced her retirement in at the end of last year, I cried at my desk. She’s incredibly happy and I’m happy for her. At least she agreed to be a reference for me, and we’re friends on Facebook now, so we’re still in touch, but I was devastated. She was the best boss I’ve ever had, bar none.

      Maybe get your boss’s information before she leaves just in case you decide to job hunt later.

    3. Chaordic One*

      I can’t imagine why anyone would chastise you.

      In the past I’ve been in situations where I was happy in my position and then a new manager takes over and the job becomes awful and I had to move on. I didn’t quit the job so much as I quit the manager.

      If you still enjoy the job and still feel challenged (in a good way) about working there, even after you get a new boss, then I don’t think you have a problem. OTOH, it doesn’t hurt to keep your eyes open for other opportunities and to remind yourself that you have options.

  68. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    My wife got approved for 80% disability and plans to only be out of work another two weeks, max! And, my current work contract got extended. So, we should make ends meet.

    I do wish she would split up her leave though. She’s pretty well over the acute stress and depression that made her initially leave, but now wants to use the time and disability pay to help deal with some issues she has from abuse that she has so far ignored in her life.

    Of course, it’s a good goal to finally deal with it, but I don’t want to have to have to struggle for money, since we have previously been barely-enough-food, rags as pads, poor before. I am scared more than most at not having money again. I grew up upper middle class and it was traumatizing.

    I’m also worried that dealing with this could put her out longer than she thinks, or make her look bad to her employer. She is a great performer but this is the second time in a year she has needed a new schedule or weeks off under FMLA/disability. But I don’t want to be a jerk who says “push it aside a while longer, you don’t matter,” either.

    1. self employed*

      Can you get an extra part time job? Not ideal, I’m sure, but in the short term, it would help with the money side. Since it’s the Christmas season it’s a good time to get side work. Is there anything you can sell (an iPad, a video game console) that could bring extra cash? It’d be good to feel like you had an additional financial cushion, since you can’t really control the emotional side.

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        I don’t think I can feasibly get side work, as I am already full time with a 40 minute commute each way. And, for my own health, I need time to work out and to go to counseling. I am looking for higher paying work doing basically my job, in a foreign language I am fluent in, though, so getting a contract for that would really help.

        I am thinking to sell my old MacBook Pro though. I got it in 2012, but ditched it and got a PC with my tax refund because it was too slow for gaming like I wanted, and didn’t run some new games. But the MacBook is totally run-able now, as I’ve wiped the hard drive and all.

        I might also speak to my wife about getting a flexible or half-time work schedule for the next few weeks.

      2. SeekingBetter*

        I agree with trying to see if you can get a part time job or to see if you can sell any of your personal items for some extra cash.

        I know about being poor since I grew up poor. I hope your spouse recovers soon and gets well!

  69. Emac*

    I have a couple of questions about the FMLA and who qualifies that hopefully someone will know. I’ve read here that an office with 50 employees or more has to follow this, but does that mean only full time employees? What about part time employees or interns? I think my workplace has just over 50 employees, but if I took out part timers and interns, I think it would go below.

    And even if the part timers and interns count, we have a lot of turn over for them and occasionally for full time staff. So would the employer have to follow the FMLA if one week there were 49 employees, but they were actively hiring for a 50th?

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          And to answer your actual question:

          FMLA kicks in if you have 50 or more employees within 75 miles of each other. Doesn’t matter if they’re part-time — if you’ve got 50 people on your payroll, you’re covered. If your interns are paid (not just a stipend, but an actual wage), they’d count toward that number too.

          1. Natalie*

            They don’t even need to be on your payroll – in most cases, temps employed through a staffing agency count towards the total number. Employees on leave count as well, regardless of whether or not their being paid.

    2. DCGirl*

      I respectfully disagree with Allison. An employee is eligible for FMLA if they’ve worked for the employer for a year, worked at least 1250 hours in the past year, and the employer has 50 or more employees within 75 miles of the employee’s job site. As to how DOL counts the number of employees, FMLA applies to employers who employ 50 or more employees for at least 20 workweeks in the current or preceding calendar year and it’s every employee. They’re counting bodies, not just full-time.

      ADA applies to employers with 15 or more employees.

  70. AnotherLibrarian*

    I am starting to work on developing my resume for moving out of my current position. I love my job, but there are no growth opportunities at the small academic library where I work.

    One of the things which has come up in the past in interviews is experience with Social Media and other forms of online outreach. Due to the structure of the library where I currently work, the Social Media is very tightly controlled and out of my hands. However, I run a tiny micro-business on the side selling art and I have done extensive work with blogging, social media and SEO for this project. There’s nothing in my side business that I would be ashamed of, in fact I am quite proud of it, but it is not library work related.

    So, my question is, how does one go about putting something like this on a resume? Should you even do it? If it comes up in an interview, do you mention it? And is it strange to talk about skills you acquired in a place that was definitely not your work environment? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    1. printrovert*

      Can you list the micro-business under a heading that reads “Additional Experience” or something similar? If you do not want to go that route, you can always list what social media applications/platforms you are familiar with in your skills sections.

    2. AnotherAnony*

      On my resume, I have my “Library Experience” section and then “Other Experience” where I listed non-library jobs, so that might be something to consider. I’ve seen a lot of social media positions, blogging and SEO skills needed out there, so try to find some way to incorporate it into the cover letter.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of it too which is why I am trying to sort out how to bring it up without it turning into a whole, “But what do you sell/do on the side?” which is just not where I want an interview to go.

        I want to talk about my library skills, not the fact that I can draw.

        1. AnotherAnony*

          I would talk about your technical experience and somehow convey the message that while you don’t handle social media in your current position, you do have experience with SEO, blogging, etc. If they ask, you can elaborate. They do want to know that you have outside interests and it isn’t anything to be ashamed about. (I know you said you weren’t, but it does all relate to what you do/what you have experience with. You never know- I ‘ve worked in libraries where they sold art from local artists and that might be something that they’re looking for!)

    3. Formica Dinette*

      I would list the business on your resume in the same way you’d list freelance work and include the relevant skills and experience there.

      1. Office Plant*

        +1

        If it’s relevant to the position you’re applying for, I would just list it alongside the other jobs. I know this varies by industry, but if you’re going in a tech direction, people care more about what you’ve done and what you can do than the context.

  71. Connie*

    The short version of my question: How can you explain the need to work around a sleep disorder with the person arranging your business travel?

    Long version: I’m an independent consultant who sometimes travels for business–I’d say roughly 50-60 nights a year. Not especially onerous, but still, that time constitutes a reasonable chunk of my work schedule. My travel is on my clients’ dime, so my impulse is to be flexible. But the fact is, I have a long-standing, unlikely-to-ever-change sleep disorder. My insomnia plays a role in every single night of my life. The only hours of the day I’m more or less certain to be able to sleep are between 4-8 a.m. I can get to sleep earlier than that, but only through the use of extremely strong sleep meds…which leave me groggy, not quite coherent, and certainly unable to drive until about 9 a.m. I wish I were one of those hyperenergetic people who doesn’t need a ton of sleep, but I’m not; I really, truly need at least four hours of sleep to remain functional throughout the day.

    The upshot of all this is that I need my flights for business to have takeoff times no earlier than 10 a.m. But how do I get clients to understand and accept this? I don’t want to yammer on about my sleep disorder with them, but at the same time, I don’t want to come across as a prima donna, either. If they try to book me on a 6 a.m. flight, I usually tell them this means I won’t get any sleep and thus will be pretty useless to them the whole day.

    Choose from this exciting buffet of responses!

    * Oh, you’ll get some sleep on the plane. (No, I won’t. I need darkness, quiet and a flat bed to have any chance of falling sleep, and even on the rare flights where I’ve had those in business class, I’ve never managed more than an hour or two.)

    * Take a nap once you get in. (This can work if I have a block of 4-5 hours when I can be in my hotel room and not at work. But if I have that much time, why not fly a little later in the day anyway? Also, a couple of clients who have suggested this then failed to arrange for early check-in at the hotel, meaning I had to spend a couple of hours groggy and miserable in the lobby rather than getting good sleep.)

    * Have you tried Ambien? (I have tried everything ever suggested for insomnia, whether behavioral, psychological or pharmacological. Ambien is a hypnotic, a class of drugs that doesn’t help me; it keeps me in a woozy stupor for about ten hours but actually keeps me from sleeping *at all.*)

    * Do you have sleep apnea? Maybe all you need is a CPAP machine. (I don’t have sleep apnea. We checked.)

    And so on.

    I’ve tried suggesting that I can fly out as late as they need; getting into an airport at 2 a.m. isn’t as much of a hardship for me as it would be for most people. I’m single now and the kids are out of the house, so it’s not a big deal for me to be gone an extra night. (Of course it costs the company an extra night in a hotel, but my clients tend to be multinationals with the kind of corporate rates that make this not an especially big ask on its own.) But time and again, clients really don’t get this. One time, on an international trip, I got off at the end of an eight-hour flight–at which point I’d been awake for close to 24 hours–to find that my clients had thought it would be a *great* idea to take me straight from the airport to their HQ for a courtesy meeting with the CEO. Spoiler: It was not a great idea. When I’m sleepless, I’m not only miserable; I’m also unable to do my best work. It defeats the whole purpose of flying me out at all.

    For the most part clients actually do try to accommodate me. But I think they often consider it some kind of diva move rather than a genuine necessity, and I worry about how that assumption will color their decisions to work with me again going-forward. Has anyone else dealt with this? Have you found the right way to explain without it coming across as a medical-information dump? It’s an issue that people without serious sleep disorders have a lot of trouble taking seriously, but it’s something *I* have to take seriously, and I don’t want it to affect my relationships with my clients.

    1. Manders*

      Is it possible that you’re over-explaining the problem? It sounds like your clients think that they have enough information about your condition to make suggestions, when really, they don’t fully understand it. Maybe if you just gave the time you need the flight booked with no mention of your sleep disorder, they might mentally fill in some other reason (childcare, transit, whatever) and stop trying to argue with your about it.

      I also have a condition that makes me picky about plane flights, and for some reason, it’s one of those areas where otherwise kind and sensible people just cannot understand why the thing that works for them won’t work for you. I think it has something to do with the way flight planning sites are laid out–when you’re staring at columns of numbers, it’s easy to focus on the price and forget all the other stuff.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        Yeah, I agree with that. I think if you just say “I can’t be on a flight before 10am” and leave it at that, you might do better?

    2. Viktoria*

      Personally I wouldn’t mention the sleep disorder. I think it’s likely that many people aren’t familiar with what that means and how serious it can be, and write it off as you just not being a morning person in the same way many people aren’t. A couple ideas:

      Have you tried just bringing it up matter-of-factly during the scheduling process? As in, “Yes, I am available to fly out on December 15th, anytime after 10 am.”

      Or, if the flight scheduling is a separate process with a different person, right at the beginning say something like: “I’m not able to take flights that depart before 10am. If you’d prefer, I’d be happy to find my own flight and send you the information.” (Assuming that last part is true). There are all kinds of reasons this could be true- you have to drop off your cat at the cat hotel and they don’t open until 9, you have to drop your kids off at granny’s house before your trip, you have to make your weekly pilates class that costs $1000 per session. They don’t need to know why.

      Or finally, if that is not getting you the results you need, perhaps, “Due to a medical condition, I cannot fly out before 10am.” If I heard that, I would probably think the person takes night-time medication that doesn’t allow them to drive early in the morning. However, I’d probably prefer to just treat this as a logistical problem than a medical accommodation problem if at all possible. Good luck!

      1. BRR*

        This is everything I would say. “Any flight after 10:00 am please.” “I have a medical condition and cannot take a flight before 10:00 am.”

        1. Connie*

          I don’t prefer to do that, though. While some clients reimburse swiftly, others don’t. Also, the corporate rates on hotels/flights they can get are generally cheaper than what I can wrangle on my own, which makes it both more trouble for me and more expensive for the client.

          I think you guys are right about the info dump, though. For so long I’ve been trying to explain more thoroughly, thinking that would help, but really it’s probably better not to explain at all. Just set the hard limit and go on. Thanks for the suggestions!

    4. she was a fast machine*

      Oh goodness, I have absolutely no advice, but I’m glad I’m not the only one with that type of disordered sleeping! I’ve tried everything under the sun(and the shock on people’s faces when even Ambien doesn’t work is priceless), and up until recently nothing would work. Through some magical chemistry nonsense, another medicine that I take for something else has started actually making me able to sleep at night and it’s incredible. But without it I’m right back where you are; I can live on 6-4 hours, but I can only really get that sleep in the mid-morning hours.

    5. Bex*

      Could you offer to fly in the evening before so that you can start meetings first thing in the morning and then take a late flight home?

  72. Guilty as charged*

    I saw this post on tumblr today and was wondering what Alison and the community thought of it:

    so my brother was telling me about this human resources certification he attended a while ago. in a panel, the panelist asked a bunch of people in attendance, “who here knows if an applicant for a job is right for it in under 60 seconds?”
    hands shot up around the room, people smug about their ability to “weed out the riff-raff” when it came to hiring for their fortune 500.
    “you should all be fired and probably in jail,” they said, waiting for the whole room to get uncomfortable, then continued, “because the only things you can really learn about a human being in under 60 seconds are all things that are fueled by prejudices and biases covered by american law. so now, i will teach you how to stop being racist, sexist, judgmental assholes and hire people that will better your company of employ.”

    2. Leatherwings*

      I mean, that’s not a diplomatic way of putting it, and the panelist probably immediately alienated more than half the audience (thereby undermining his entire message) but I don’t think that the underlying message of reducing implicit bias is wrong.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I basically agree, but I’d add that there are things you can know in 60 seconds that aren’t covered by law, like smarminess, arrogance, rudeness, slovenly appearance, etc.

      2. Aurion*

        Yeah, this. I agree with the general message, but Tumblr really is not a bastion of nuance, and I’ve seen several awful job advice posts on there.

        2. SJ*

          Yyyyup. I saw one that talked about how after you submit an application, you should call them up and talk about how super excited you are about the opportunity, and make sure you state your name a whole bunch of times, because that will FORCE them to remember you! YIKES.

          1. Aurion*

            I still remember a post where the OP insisted that you can spin basically anything into job expertise as long as you know to look it up. 20 minutes on Google turned you into an Excel expert, copy-pasting Tumblr themes that other people wrote turned you into a web developer, etc.* It was horrifying and such bad advice.

            * I mean, if you’d actually written said CSS for said theme I can see that being a selling point. But I’ve used many people’s blog themes before and let me tell you, I know absolutely nothing about being a web dev.

          2. Mike C.*

            That’s advice you give people who have been kidnapped, not folks who sent in a job application. Ugh.

    4. Mike C.*

      Given the absolute discrepancies based on protected class in hiring (changing the name from Patty to Pat and suddenly getting calls or that being a black American is like being a white American with a felony in terms of chances of being interviewed) I can’t say I mind the tone all that much.

      Yeah, it’s rough and in your face and it’s not nuanced. But the practices cause so much harm and so much inequality that I think the rough treatment is justified. It’s time that folks deal with the externalities they cause.

      1. Leatherwings*

        While I totally agree with you in principle, I will say that there are studies about rhetorical devices like these – and the conclusion is basically that they can cause people to retrench their own biases and build up walls against people trying to change them. They hear “You’re an asshole who’s biased” and the assholes who are biased thing “Outrageous! No I’m not. I’m not listening to this person” and then they stew for the whole lecture and justify their own biases instead of being open to change.

        1. Mike C.*

          I’ve heard those as well, but all the reporting I’ve seen only mentions one or two studies (and then only casually without links to the actual papers) and it fits too nicely into this common idea “people who are angry over being treated like crap just need to be nice” when we all know that even when they were/are “nice” they get ignored anyway.

          I’d certainly like to see more on the issue but even at this point I don’t know enough about the field to understand the limitations of studies like these, if these studies are good and so forth. It’s certainly possible that this hypothesis holds, but I have to wonder if the answer is more complicated.

      2. JustaTech*

        And let’s say you can know in 60 seconds that you don’t want to hire someone based on behavior/knowledge (candidate hasn’t looked away from my boobs the entire time they’ve been in the room) (candidate has already used the wrong technical term three times) rather than bias-based stuff, then you should probably be asking yourself why you didn’t weed them out earlier in the interview process.

        1. Aurion*

          Well, some of these you can’t. I wouldn’t know that a candidate would spend the interview looking at my chest until we’re actually in the interview room together.

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            Yeah, I have no idea how you could know that ahead of time. Or that they’d show up in a wildly work-inappropriate outfit, or flirt with the receptionist, or be rude to the junior level person in the interview.

            Interviews are to find out more about people; it’s not a failure not to know everything about them beforehand.

      3. Observer*

        Do you want to be right, or do you want to be effective?

        I know that there are not a lot of studies SPECIFICALLY about this. But everything we know about how to influence people goes counter to the tack this guy has taken. He could have made the same point as clearly and a lot less offensively – and would therefore have been much more effective.

        There are exceptions, where making your disgust crystal clear is more important. In those cases, this tack works. But, generally, if you are trying to get people to listen to you, calling them names just doesn’t work.

    5. Sutemi*

      I’ve occasionally known within 1 minute that I didn’t want to hire someone, but never been sure that I did. The examples had very egregious behavior.

    6. Mike C.*

      Ok, in re-reading this post, the question seems to be more “given an arbitrary candidate, can you tell if they are right for the job in 60 seconds” rather than, “is it possible to tell if a candidate is right for the job in 60 seconds”. The smug reactions If my interpretation is correct, then I think the speaker is more justified in their reaction.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        The question read to me like the speaker WANTED people to be able to tell within 60 seconds. The way the question was framed seemed to draw positive responses but that could be just me.

    7. Office Plant*

      I think it’s justified. The shock helps people to remember the presentation. This is a really important topic. Yes, the tactic is a little insulting and adversarial. But at the same time, I think it’s obvious that it’s a dramatic device, not to be taken literally. That’s just my take on it.

  73. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

    I would like to complain snarkily about Other People in My Company or “the others” (people not in my division). Anybody want to join me? :-)

    Okay so, I try hard to stay away from involvement, but because I’m a senior manager, I’m sometimes called into joint meetings or asked for help. For some reason (idk my attitude possibly? ;-)) it doesn’t happen too often.

    In the last month though, attended a joint meeting, arranged by The Others, with the postal service. My presence was requested because we’re USPS experts and The Others were trying to learn more. 10AM meeting, at 9:58 I’m like shit, I’m late, grab my stuff and run to the conference room.

    Which was completely empty, lights off. So now I’m like, crap, I have the wrong room, dammit, I should have looked more closely and I run off to another conference room which is also empty, lights off. I’ll just hit the punchline from here: the first conference room was correct, and people start s-t-r-o-l-l-i-n-g in around 10:10. The meeting didn’t get started until 10:20 and not a single person apologized.

    Are you kidding me?

    And then after that meeting in which I barked “what time does a 10Am meeting start people? 10AM!”, two of the people in the meeting (later that week) asked to schedule a meeting just the three of us so they could ask me more questions. I go through my calendar and give them a choice of three slots. They pick the slot. I send the Outlook. I had them slotted 1:30pm to 2pm, and I had another meeting at 2Pm.

    One guy shows up 1:30pm promptly. The other guy? Had to be called **to be reminded** (see: I sent an outlook), and didn’t show up until 1:50PM. So they got 10 minutes that was it, so sorry.

    How is it even possible we are in the same company and the same building?

    And then there’s the thing that another part of company was asking my help on but the contact would not just give me the details . It was like pulling teeth to get all of the information so I could answer the question well. I was asking for size of the mail piece and how many they were going to mail.

    Her: “The mailing is bigger than last time”.
    Me: “Okay, do you mean bigger in size or bigger in quantity?”
    Her: both.
    Me: Okay could you tell me the size of the mail piece and how many you are going to mail

    Seriously?

    OMG.

    Now you go.

      1. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

        Well if your reason for that is that you might have to play nice with people like The Others, I’ll tell you I don’t play very nicely at all.

        :-)

    2. ASJ*

      I do. I’ll complain about one of my coworkers who lets things pile up on her desk for months, and then brings a huge stack of stuff to me to be filed (December 20th last year – she brought me roughly 50 items of stuff, some of which dated back to July. These were completed files, so she was literally just too lazy to get up and bring them down to me sooner).

    3. AmyNYC*

      People being late to meetings drives me NUTS! Especially when YOU MADE THE MEETING.
      Also, people who overstay their reservations in conference rooms, so I have to make a split decisions if that looks like clients so I should just wait, or if it’s internal and I can ask them to move along…

      1. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

        How is it a possible thing that 6 of The Others were all very casually late/gathering/come in when it suited, leaving I might add, leaving the USPS rep, who had a 10am appt with us, in the lobby waiting until I guess 10:12 or so. And all as if it was totally normal that of course a 10AM meeting wouldn’t start until 10:20.

        It’s nuts. What a time waster.

        Well the next time somebody wants my presence, I’m going to ask what time the meeting really starts and show up them. (I really will. I don’t have 20 minutes to stand around waiting for people.)

        1. catsAreCool*

          Sometimes when I think a meeting will start late, I’ll bring stuff to work on, but that’s not always easy.

      2. Mike C.*

        I just bust in and let people know. I don’t have to worry about clients but if they needed more time they should have scheduled it.

    4. Former Admin*

      You should blame your admin. That’s what my boss always did when something like this happened. I didn’t follow up enough.

  74. Stephanie M.*

    Hi All – I’ve been reading AAM for year’s now but this is my first time commenting.

    I applied for and got an interview for an adjunct teaching position at a college. Teaching is a dream of mind and I’m very excited about this opportunity. I have experience teaching this subject to colleagues for a professional designation and have previously coached high school students but I don’t have any “real” teaching experience.

    Do you have any advice for this interview in terms of how I should prepare or what I might expect?

    1. Yo Teach!*

      I just NAILED a similar interview! Things I did:
      -research: got really familiar with the department’s offerings, looked at the mission statement closely, asked faculty for insight (this only worked because I knew many of them already, I didn’t cold call)
      -prepared a loose lesson plan – not something to whip out to your interviewer necessarily, but it helped me feel confident about explaining what I wanted to impart to students
      -wrote a list of questions that were really thoughtful
      -did a ton of research into where the field is heading
      -spent about a week beforehand literally just telling myself that I had the job and was already an excellent teacher, and making myself believe that my “not-real” teaching experience (I have also done lots of coaching/TA’ing) was real experience. It really helped me with the mental roadblock.
      -made a list of the what skills I had already gleaned from my limited experience, which I was able to use to convince them that I could make the jump into teaching
      -prepared some talking points about teaching, they appreciated that I cared about teaching as much as I cared about the subject matter

      Of course this all depends on your subject matter/department/region, so disregard what doesn’t apply.

      1. Stephanie M.*

        I don’t know if you’ll see this but thank you for the reply! I had my interview this morning and it went well. There actually weren’t very many questions asked, it was more of a conversation. I was prepared to talk about my ideas for the class, had questions regarding expectations, etc. There are two other individuals being interviewed and they said they would have a decision early next week!

  75. Sophie*

    I worked in an extremely toxic and abusive male dominated culture where I was the only woman and some of the things that they said were absolutely horrible. I mean, I can take a joke, but this was borderline abusive. Yet all of the guys were married and some had kids. Do they say the same things to their wives? Or was it just sort of a boys’ club and they wouldn’t act like this at home? I just can’t fathom being married to someone like that. (I’m glad I’m not!)

    1. she was a fast machine*

      You would be surprised at what some people are conditioned to expect and accept from their husbands/fathers.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      A pastor once commented, “When I walk in the room all the cussing and dirty jokes just vanish. Totally and completely GONE.”

      Bad behavior feeds more bad behaviors. All it takes is one person running their mouth and then several others join them.

      I worked with a bunch of women at one place. And they were way gross. It was to the point that I couldn’t even start a conversation because I had no idea what to talk about. They never talked about ordinary life things, it always had to be dramatic and graphic.

  76. em*

    Anyone know if state labor depatments will take a complaint from a customer seriously? I saw a sign behind the counter of my local convenice store that stated that any emplyee who caused the coffee machine to oveflow would have to pay for cleaning supplies and clock out to clean up the mess – obviously horribly illegal. I don’t want to say anything to the cashiers i see there as I’m not sure which ones are family of the owners and which are outside emplyees. I’m definalty not giving them my business anymore and am being vocal about that to neighbors but I realy feel like I should call the depatment of labor so they can help the poor employees who may not know that its illegal or not be able to stand up for themselves. Any thoughts?

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Yes, that’s pretty egregious so I’d think they’d take it quite seriously. See if you can report it online, so you can detail the issues in writing.

      And leave reviews online, if you’re so inclined. I’m sure people on Yelp looking for a convenience store would love to know about this horrible (and illegal) “policy.”

  77. Pearl*

    If you’re buying gift cards for your office, please try to do a subtle survey first. I appreciate that work gave me an early holiday gift, but I wish they had asked first. It’s a little irritating to be given an expensive gift and not be able to use it. I got a large gift card for a massage, which I won’t use, and I can’t find any friends who want it either. Probably I’ll either try to give it back to the store or sell it online.

    At least it wasn’t another plant. 3 separate groups in the building gave me plants this year. I’ve killed all of them (by accident).

    1. AshK434*

      That’s a bummer. Appreciate the fact that your company/department is actually thoughtful enough to give gifts though!

      1. Pearl*

        Yeah, it is nice that they appreciate my work. I just wish I could find somebody who could actually use the card! The only person I seem to know who likes massages is the person who gave me the gift, which would obviously be a little awkward.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          I think you could give it to that person! I love massages and tend to assume that everyone else does too, but I do realize some people don’t. You could say, “I really appreciate you thinking of me, but realistically I’m not one for massages — but I know that you are, and I wonder if you’d want to use this? I really wouldn’t mind, and I’d feel better about that than it not getting used at all.”

    3. Gandalf the Nude*

      If there are any charities or non-profits that you like, you can give it to them for use in an auction or raffle or something. My local HPA chapter is actually doing a gift card drive after the holidays with the intent of distributing them to appropriate area non-profits (book stores to the literacy advocates, clothing stores to the LGBTQ+ center).

  78. Sarasaurus*

    My scatterbrained coworker is driving me up a freaking wall! She consistently drops the ball on deadlines, forgets to communicate important information, and needs to be reminded 5+ times to do simple tasks like forward me a document. I’m not sure if she’s overworked, just disorganized, or a combination of both, but I’m at my wit’s end.
    Right now, we’re working on a big project together, and I feel like 90% of my time is spent trying to figure out what the hell is happening with her pieces. Despite multiple requests to save her work in our shared drive so that we can both access it, she saves everything on her laptop. I’ve asked many times if we can sit down and put together a project timeline and checklist of who owns what, but she just blows it off. Of course, as the senior person and official project manager, she’s getting all the credit for work I’m actually doing! Left to her own devices, I’m pretty sure this project would crash and burn.
    Can I bring this up to our shared manager in a way that doesn’t seem petty and whiny?

    1. Imaginary Number*

      I have been there.

      You say you don’t know if it’s because she’s overworked. I would first run with the assumption that’s the case. Maybe this project is a small blip to her that has a much lower priority than five others. If you’re spending a lot of time waiting on her pieces, can you offer to take on some of those pieces yourself?

    2. Shelly*

      Yes. Bring this up with your shared manager. I avoiding bringing up something like this for a team I was on for three years. When I finally brought it up, I discovered that my manager both knew about the situation and was working to rectify it. It took a huge weight off my shoulders.

      You might need to just do things, such as making that checklist yourself. I had to do that. I also had to set deadlines for both of us. I did make sure she agreed to them. She didn’t meet them, but at least then I had evidence of what I had done. Last thing, do all things in writing. You may need evidence. Once you have evidence of the problems, go to your manager.

      As for going to your manager, this is what I said, “I am concerned about (project A), because of these things…” And then calmly and politely explain your issues. One thing to be careful of is ranting. I bet you are super annoyed at this coworker, but you don’t want to come off as “So and So annoys me and therefore I am going to attack her.”

      But yeah, have it in writing. Having email exchanges to document things has really helped me make cases for problems in the past. As harsh as it sounds, you need to cover your behind.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      Shelly recommended great wording. Talk to your manager ASAP. Sounds like her mistakes are really making things hard on you, and you shouldn’t have to deal with that anymore! Be sure to tell you manager what you’ve already done to try and solve the problems. It’s your manager’s job to deal with this now.

  79. zora*

    I posted about this earlier in the week, there was another comment about Secret Santa/Yankee Swap including the boss, and it reminded me I have a related issue. I currently have a plan, but thought you all might have some input that would help.

    I’m in charge of planning holiday activities, and while talking about plans with my boss (who is the supervisor of everyone who works for our site), she said “Would people want to do a Secret Santa?” I said “oh, maybe, I’ll ask around” and she hasn’t brought it up since. I don’t think she’s really invested in it, but I don’t really want to tell her to her face that ‘gifting up’ is awkward.

    This would be during our holiday lunch, with only 6 people, at a restaurant. I feel like people here would feel awkward if they got our boss as the person they had to give something to. And, honestly, everyone has been working crazy hard lately, I don’t think anyone would be happy about having to go out and find a small/cheap gift for a coworker in general.

    So, my current plan is to just not bring it up again, assume my boss will forget (she probably will) and if she does bring it up be noncommittal about some vague reason it didn’t work out. Is this a terrible idea, is there a better way to handle it?

    1. ASJ*

      Maybe you really should ask around and hear how your coworkers feel. If they’re not interested, then you have something honest to report back if/when your boss asks. If they are interested, maybe a “mystery” Secret Santa would work better – everyone buys a generalized small gift and picks one at random, thus eliminating the person who has to buy for the boss specifically?

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Could you do you due diligence and ask your team members anyway, giving them an easy out to say they’re not into it? “[Boss] suggested we might do a Secret Santa at our holiday lunch. I think it might not be the best idea, but told her I’d get others’ input. Would you be interested?” Or something like that? I think hoping a problem goes away is never the best solution.

      1. zora*

        Well, she usually forgets about things, and it’s my job to remind her, so I’m pretty positive it will work.

        But I think you are both right and I should just confirm this with the coworkers explicitly instead of assuming. I’m still pretty positive I’m right and no one wants to do it, so it’s better to just confirm that. Thanks all!

  80. Anonymousaurus Rex*

    Medical doctors & those who work with MDs…what’s up with the condescension? (Okay, I know not all MDs.) I work in a non-clinical role in a healthcare field. I have a PhD in a social science. At my organization, MDs and people with clinical PhDs are addressed as Dr. LastName. Social science PhDs are usually addressed as Dr. FirstName. It’s an unwritten rule. But somehow, I’m addressed as just FirstName. It’s odd and I don’t know why I’m not given the same honorific as other PhDs. I think it’s because I’m relatively new to my role, and the person in my position before me had a masters, rather than a PhD. It sounds so petty–I normally prefer to go by just FirstName–but it’s kind of starting to bug me, if only because I think that it leads to many of the doctors being more condescending to me, or thinking that I’m not really capable of much maybe?
    Example: I was recently assigned to work on a project with a lot of clinical jargon I’m unfamiliar with. The MD introducing me to the project (who knows I have a nonclinical background) keeps congratulating me on being able to keep up and saying things like: “See! You could have gone to med school! Maybe you’ll go back to school to be a nurse practitioner after this project! Etc.” It’s meant to be congratulatory and to make me feel okay about working on something that I don’t have a background in, but it just comes off as kind of condescending. I don’t mean to sound conceded, but I know I *could* have gone to med school. I didn’t want to go to med school or I would have, and there are other worthy professions other than being an MD. Also there are smart people out there who can keep up with you even without a medical degree! Do other people in medical fields experience this, or is it unique to my origination?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      I think the key is in how you respond to comments like the one made to you. That would have been a great time to say “Oh, I didn’t want to go to med school. I actually really enjoy XXX and got my PhD in it!”

    2. ASJ*

      Seconding Katie the Fed, but I don’t think it’s too late to say “Actually, I prefer to go by Dr. Firstname).”

      1. AnonyMeow*

        It’s not all that uncommon, unfortunately. In the healthcare practice I work in, it’s similar, and it comes with a nastier twist: MDs and male PhDs are called Dr. LastName, but female PhDs are just FirstName.

        I’ve seriously considered using the Dr. LastName format for everyone, because this is so gendered and crappy–but I haven’t done it. A part of it is that I don’t know how the female PhDs feel about the whole thing. If they are more comfortable with FirstName, I wouldn’t want to use the Dr. LastName format against their preference. The other part is my general preference for calling everyone simply FirstName.

        But yeah, I don’t think putting MDs on a pedestal is terribly rare, though I think/hope the attitude is changing with younger physicians who are trained in a more team-based, collaborative environments.

        1. Emi.*

          The minute I realized Dr. Man called all the women by their first names, I’d start start calling him by his first name all the time.

    3. Future Analyst*

      I don’t have a PhD, but I would also be annoyed/offended at the stuff the MD is saying. He/she sounds super condescending. If you send a lot of emails, I would sign them Dr. FirstName. And when you meet new people, introduce yourself as Dr. FirstName. It’s not petty to want the same respect as those around you.

    4. H.C.*

      I get the argument of only using Dr. [LastName] for M.D.s and clinical Ph.D.s, since in a medical setting the context of doctor means someone who treats patients, not anyone who holds a doctorate degree.

      That being said, being introduced/addressed as Dr. [FirstName] is rather twee and infantilizing. I would much prefer the traditional Mr./Ms. [LastName] and save the Ph.D. acknowledgment for business cards, email signatures, presentation title slides, etc.

      1. Anonymousaurus Rex*

        I agree. I think Dr. FirstName sounds…odd? Definitely oddly infantilizing. So your strategy is what I’ve been using. FirstName only, but my email signature, business cards, etc have the PhD added. It’s just the disconnect that I feel really condescended to that makes me wonder if I should try to change the mode of address.

    5. Anonymous Commenter #637*

      Haven’t you heard? MDs are gods! That MD was paying you the highest compliment by suggesting you might be capable of becoming a god too.

      I’m not any kind of doctor, but I have worked with many MDs.

    6. sugarplum*

      Are you me?!

      Sadly, I think it’s pretty common. I’m a non-clinical social science PhD working in a healthcare system. In my department, a mix of MDs, PhDs, and MD/PhDs, all academics, we’re all on a first name basis. But with clinicians… what drives me particularly bonkers is that the MDs generally refer to each other as Dr. LastName, but refer to me as just FirstName. My only recourse, really, is that – while I will refer to my MD colleagues to others as Dr. Whoever as necessary – *I* only call *them* FirstName.

      The MD “congratulating” you sounds like a jerk, though. I have had comments of some surprise, or commendation, at how well-versed I am at clinical info, but not in a condescending way. But I’ve worked with MDs, as a non-clinician in a clinical setting, for a long time – basically since college – and physicians come up in such a weird professional culture. I think for many of them, it’s hard to imagine anything that’s not that path. It certainly doesn’t excuse the jerkiness, but for the majority, I try not to begrudge them the fact that they spent years of training having DOCTOR DOCTOR DOCTOR pounded into their brains.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      It’s been ingrained in our society for so long that PhDs are not *real* doctors, I think you are going to have an uphill battle on this one.

      It’s probably not a consolation but know for a fact that some of them talk just as shabbily to their patients. I am thinking of the doc who called me a stupid fn b, because I was crying as he sewed my fairly deep puncture wound from the bottom upward. I cried harder when I realized I had Dr. Dimwit sewing me.

      Try not to personalize it. Think of it as getting a glimpse into their professional persona and you now have an idea of what their patients think of them. I have met a lot of docs and I can count on one hand the number of docs who I thought were not condescending.

  81. Persephone Mulberry*

    Resume question! TL;DR: Is it okay to leave on a significant community involvement/volunteer role that you no longer hold? The role(s) in question I held for 7 years (2007-2014) and had some impressive accomplishments over that time.

    Longer explanation: Two jobs ago, I was in a weird situation – my boss was elected to the board of a local nonprofit, and ended up taking on responsibility for two committees – and then recruited me to be on the committees with her, essentially turning the committee work into part of my job description. This was totally okay by me – it was interesting and career-relevant work. I’ve always listed my committee work separately under “community involvement” at the bottom of my resume, but now I’m wondering (a) if it looks weird to list a volunteer role that you no longer hold, and (b) if so – or even if not – figure out how to list my committee accomplishments under that employer instead.

  82. Good_Intentions*

    Serving as reference for friend applying to job that rejected me

    Situation: A former colleague and I applied for the same job, made it to the first round of interviews. She received an invitation for a second round interview, but I did not. Given that I’m in a different field (NGO vs. local govt.), and she’s spent her career in county government work, I know why she moved forward and I did not.

    Conflict: Listening to her discuss the joys of the position, I refrained from mentioning my own interview experience and congratulated her on the success Now, she’s asked me to serve as a reference for her. I agreed because she’s helped me out a lot, and I very much want to return the favor.

    Concern: How will HR respond to seeing my name and telephone number on the reference list of its finalist? Will HR mention to her that I previously interviewed for the same position? Will HR be unlikely to contact me because of the perceived conflict?

    Please let me know your thoughts. She’s a genuinely lovely person, and I truly want her to secure this position and be happy. I have since moved on to being a finalist for another position.

    Thanks for your time!

    1. ASJ*

      I don’t think HR would mention that to her, but you may want to just so that she is fully aware. Depending on the person, there is potential for some backlash if she doesn’t get the job and later finds out you as applied as well (not trying to suggest you’d sabotage her, but some people’s mind would go there). But I still think she should know so she can decide if she wants you to be a reference.

      As for how HR will respond… they may not even notice, depending on how large the HR department is – the person making the reference calls may not be the same person who interviewed you.

      1. Good_Intentions*

        ASJ:

        No, the entire office is only five people.

        The HR guy who interviewed both of us will be conducting the reference check.

        Also, the reason I’m serving as one of her references is because she’s been declined by other people. It’s very much a pinch hitter situation, so I want to be as supportive as I can.

        I’ve been where she is and really empathize with the plight of desperately wanting a job and trying to find sufficient references. It’s a tough spot to be in, especially with the holidays looming.

        1. Not a Real Giraffe*

          I don’t think HR will relay it to your former colleague. If/when they do reach out for the reference check, I think your best bet is to be upfront: “I actually interviewed for this role, so I feel like I have a unique insight to how great of a fit Colleague will be at this job.”

          1. Good_Intentions*

            Not a Real Giraffe:

            Wow, thanks so much for that fantastic line!

            She really is a great candidate for this role and has a strong tie to the community. I have absolutely no qualms about talking her up and sharing my experience working with her.

            Again, I appreciate your suggestion!

  83. caledonia*

    Today is a vodka day.

    I was on reception cover for this afternoon – not great but ok.

    I ecentually realise after lunch has finished that everyone is not on lunch but have diverted their phone’s.

    Turns out they were putting up Christmas decorations and messing around.

    Totally not fun, given I started in mid October and I have a niche subject area which is different to everyone else’s but my (smaller) office.

    Bah humbug.

  84. me again*

    My coworker just told me that she doesn’t celebrate holidays. I couldn’t tell if this was a personal preference or tied to a religious restriction. Is there a sensitive way to ask her what her restrictions/preferences are to ensure I’m not crossing any boundaries? I want to make sure something like saying “Happy Birthday” doesn’t bother her or asking about plans for a long weekend is acceptable.

    Any ideas?

    1. Leatherwings*

      Asking about plans over a long weekend seems fine, but I don’t think the reason for not celebrating matters. In this instance, wishing her Happy Birthday would be insensitive regardless of the reason.

      I don’t think there’s any good way to ask so you just have to take her at her word (because any reason she gives is legitimate)

      1. me again*

        I guess I wasn’t sure if a birthday was considered a holiday?

        I also wasn’t so much looking for the reason (it’s obviously her prerogative), just wondering what is and isn’t acceptable for her – I mentioned the religious vs. personal thing because I didn’t want to get into a discussion about specific religions and what is and isn’t permissible.

        1. NM anon*

          I say just ask if you’re concerned. I don’t celebrate most holidays, but I’ve never been offended or angry because someone told me happy or merry whatever and I do celebrate my birthday.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      If she was open enough to tell you she doesn’t celebrate holidays, ask her if that includes birthdays as well. That’s it, really. If she doesn’t celebrate for religious reasons, she might be used to that question. If it’s personal preference, she might say, “Oh, no, I do lots of birthdays!”

      It’s perfectly acceptable to ask anyone what their plans are for a long weekend, as long as you accept the answer (or lack thereof). People sometimes ask me what I’m doing for Christmas, and in the past I have said, “Oh, I’m Jewish, so I’m taking the day off from the world– lots of movies and hot cocoa and naps!” I used to get two responses: “That sounds wonderful,” and, “Oh, that is so SAD! Do you want to come to my house for Christmas?” Guess which one you should avoid. :)

    3. Sled Dog Mama*

      For long “holiday” weekends just call them long weekends as if she was taking PTO on a Monday. So instead of asking “What are you doing for Christmas?” you’d ask something like “Have any special plans for the 3 day weekend in December?”

      1. Chriama*

        That is weirdly non-confrontational and deferential. She doesn’t celebrate holidays, that doesn’t mean it’s verboten to mention them around her. If OP is really worried about navigating it she can just ask the coworker how she prefers this to be handled. But otherwise, just act normal. “Do you have any plans?” “I don’t celebrate holidays” “Ok, planning to do anything with the time off?” “Just hang out at home” “Yeah, that’s always relaxing”. This is just small talk. There’s no point to any of it. If the coworker wants to change topics she can. Or OP can reserve holiday talk for people who she knows are ready and willing to reciprocate, and just stick to talking about other topics with the coworker. It’s not the kind of thing where she needs to feel embarrassed or guilty if she forgets, asks the coworker and the coworker reminds her that she doesn’t celebrate holidays. At that point just “oh, that’s right. How about [other topic]”.

        1. zora*

          I just call it ‘the break’ or ‘the holiday’ a lot. I’m not Christian and have worked lots of places with religious diversity, so it’s just become habit to say “How was your break?” or “what are you planning to do over the break?” instead of “What are you doing for Christmas?” It’s still time off work (presumably) it’s fine to ask about that, you don’t need to be super obvious about leaving out the word Christmas, like The-Date-In-Late-December-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named.

        2. Emi.*

          I agree! To me, a “holiday weekend” is just a three-day weekend for a “federal holiday,” regardless of whether it means anything special to you, but if you think that might bug her you could just say “break,” like zora suggests.

        3. me again*

          I think sometimes in an effort to be sensitive, we start throwing norms out the window and worrying too much. My family and I celebrate all major American holidays, including Christmas, but from a cultural standpoint, not a religious one (I’m an atheist and my parents are Hindus). I’ve dealt with people who don’t celebrate the typical American holidays, but this is my first encounter with someone who doesn’t celebrate any, so this really threw me off.

          Thanks for reassuring me that I don’t have to act taboo about it and it is okay if I forget around her!

      2. MsCHX*

        +1 for always calling holiday weekends “the long weekend” and our Christmas closing “the break”.

        1. Natalie*

          Everyone in my last office referred to holiday weekends as “long weekends”, and (as far as I know) we had no non-celebrators. So this really can just be a normal turn of phrase rather than being over accommodating.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      “I want to make sure something like saying “Happy Birthday” doesn’t bother her or asking about plans for a long weekend is acceptable.”

      That’s the conversation right there.

      “Coworker, I was thinking about what you said about not celebrating holidays. I don’t want to come across as unthinking or worse. So I was wondering if saying Happy Birthday or asking if you have plans for the long weekend was okay?”

  85. Emi.*

    What’s the difference between secretaries, office managers, administrative assistants, and personal assistants? I hear about all of them doing a lot of the same work–are they overlapping but different jobs, or just different terms? (Are personal assistants really supposed to pick up dry-cleaning and schedule babysitting, or is that just something terrible movie bosses make them do?)

    1. Katie the Fed*

      Secretaries and admin assistants are pretty much the same thing. “Secretary” is a bit of an outdated term, IMHO.

      Office manager has more responsibilities – usually overseeing other admin staff (if there are any), arranging supply delivery, dealing with vendors, that kind of thing.

      Personal assistant is someone who helps you with your personal (and possibly some job-related) tasks. So you could send a personal assistant to go pick up your dry cleaning. You wouldn’t do that with an admin assistant normally.

      1. Aurion*

        I have the impression that some people viscerally dislike the term “secretary”, in addition to it being simply outdated. Not sure why…

        But I agree with your delineations.

        1. Chaordic One*

          Although the word “secretary” is gender neutral, it has unfortunately acquired a connotation as being a “female” role and occupation (not that there’s anything wrong with that). The title, “administrative assistant,” is a more current term, also gender neutral, but it doesn’t have quite as much connotation as being a “female” role and occupation. There are more and more men entering the field and that’s generally a good thing.

    2. Sarasaurus*

      This is just me speaking from my own experience – I’m sure things are done differently in different fields/organizations.
      An administrative assistant does thing like filing, keeping materials organized, ordering supplies, booking travel, and scheduling. Depending on the size of the office, this person might also act as receptionist. In some offices, there is a separate receptionists to answer phones and greet visitors.
      An office manager does many of the same things as an administrative assistant, but with a little more responsibility. IME, office managers come into play in a larger office where there are multiple AAs. In those situations, an AA supports a group/department, whereas the Office Manager supports the whole building and acts as the lead AA.
      Executive Assistants support a single person, usually an executive. This tends to be a more senior role than an AA. It typically requires a strong understanding of the industry, the executive’s relationships, and how things work at the company.
      Personal Assistants manage all of the above, but for someone’s personal life – booking their personal appointments, picking up dry cleaning, answering personal emails. These are much rarer and reserved for the busiest and most executive people. I’ve never worked in an environment where someone had a personal assistant.

      2. vpc*

        Also a secretary might – or might not, depending on the office – have more of a writing /editing role than a receptionist or an admin assistant. In one of my past lives, Sue the receptionist would do phones and greet customers / direct them to meeting rooms; Jane the office manager handled office supplies, utilities, space assignments, contractors to fix stuff; and Tammy the secretary took minutes in meetings and typed them up, prepared correspondence and documents for signatures, etc.

    3. NM anon*

      Additionally, these positions can all be different based on the company too. I’ve held office manager positions that had less responsibilities than office clerk or administrative assistant positions that I’ve held. I’ve held administrative assistant positions that actually didn’t do much admin work but instead technical design work.

  86. ThatLibraryChick*

    Applied for a higher internal position, was told I was a shoo in for it, had interview, was told I did well, and then ….I didn’t get it. Naturally I’m bummed. I’m meeting with one of the interviewers for feedback next week. How do I not take this as “well if I had just done that, I would have gotten the job?” or “I’m not good enough for you”? Rationally I get this, but how do you handle it emotionally? I plan on using whatever the feedback is for the future in case a similar position opens up but for right now, I’m still bummed and want to handle this correctly.

    1. ASJ*

      I’ve been there, done that. It was a really hard blow to absorb.

      Could you take a little vacation time to separate yourself from the disappointment?

    2. Katie the Fed*

      Focus the conversation on looking forward – “how can I be more competitive for a similar role in the future?”

      And please resist the urge to pipe in with “but I did do that! But I have that!”

      And then thank the person for their help.

      I’m sorry you didn’t get the job – that’s a sucky feeling.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      I have been on both sides of this and it is hard for the person talking to you, but it can be super helpful. I would recommend waiting until you feel like you can really gain from the conversation. Try to remember the person giving you the feedback wants you to succeed. They want to help you and the best way they can do that is by being honest.

      I would bring something to write with and take notes. I would also a copy of your cover letter and resume for them to look at with you. Let them point out specific things you might have omitted or that were jarring for them. We once didn’t interview a person for a job, because neither his resume nor his cover letter mentioned he had some experience. Later, I found out he did have that experience, but it hadn’t been mentioned. The people on the committee who had known, didn’t say anything, because they felt like they had to treat all applicants equally. Something I agree with.

      Lastly, remember this: Not getting a job is NOT a judgement on you in anyway. There are several people on most library hiring committees, you have no way of knowing what swayed them in what direction.

    4. Newish Reader*

      I was recently on a hiring committee for an internal position. From that perspective, I can tell you that it can be extremely difficult to make the final decision. We had several good candidates and had to narrow to one choice. The finalist candidates that weren’t hired are all good employees with their own strengths. The fact that they weren’t chosen for this specific role doesn’t minimize their strengths and contributions to the company. There really wasn’t anything they could have done differently to sway the decision – it just came down to the committee and hiring manager preferring one set of skills/experiences over another.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      It may not go the way you think. I am not saying it will be easy but the pitfalls you anticipate may not happen.

      I applied for a job years ago. It had my name ALL over it, it was so me. Friends and family said “It’s so you.” I talked to everyone there, coworkers, board prez, “Oh this job is so you.”

      I did not get it.
      The board prez called me. I liked that because she could not see my face. She opened her conversation with “I cannot believe I am saying this to you….”

      This gave me a clue that the conversation was not easy for her either. And it also clued me that the conversation was not going to be about me getting the job.

      She did not make me do a lot of talking. Wise woman. She explained about the candidate who got the job. This person had X experience. The board was totally surprised by this and realized that X would be very applicable in their setting. The unspoken, obvious thing was I did not have X experience and it was nothing I would be able to pull together in a few weeks or even a few months.

      While I blinked back the tears, I had to agree with the logic. It was a wise choice for them.
      The lady was so damn nice. I realized that I had to lighten up myself as a courtesy to her.

      Going the other way, I had to tell a person they did not get the job for a different place/position. Fortunately, by then I understood the importance of space. I decided to email her and explain why. I did not make her ask. I thanked her for her app/interest. I explained that we had to go with someone else. Fortunately, this applicant KNEW that because she lacked Y, she was getting passed over. So I tapped that, “Like you said, the only thing that was different from you and the other person was Y.” I encouraged her to keep doing everything she is doing, because she nailed everything else. I asked her if we could keep her app on file.
      She sent back a lovely email and yeah, she did help me to feel better about delivering crappy news. Her response earned her more points in my books. If we do have an opening I will advocate for talking to her again.

      They probably will not tell you if you had done this or that then you would have a the job. Answers are not usually that simple.
      They are not saying you are not good enough for them. Like the candidate I spoke with, she had everything for the job. She was plenty “good enough”. Someone else was “gooder”. In my on example- I was good for the job, but someone else was “gooder” than me.

      The door did not slam and lock. Hold on to that thought. Another thought to hang on to is people do not put time into people if they think the person is a waste of time. This interviewer is putting time into talking with you for a reason. Find out why.

      It’s still okay to cry about not getting the job, though. I know I still cried.

  87. Katie the Fed*

    Opinions on this:

    A friend was on a work trip. During one of the flights, the plane lost pressure rapidly, oxygen masks came out, and they had to make an emergency landing. She was physically ok. However, she was pretty shaken up by it and needed a day to go to the doctor and get some anti-anxiety and sleep medications. She also took a half day because she was getting really rattled with everyone asking her to tell them about the incident.

    So she took a day and a half off. Her boss is making her take PTO for that, but her argument is that since it was related to something that happened to her on a work trip, they should cover it.

    Thoughts?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I’m assuming, based on your use of “PTO,” that this person doesn’t have separate vacation and sick days, and that it’s all part of the same bucket? If not, I would classify this as a sick day, the same way I would if I got a cold as a result of traveling for work. If it’s all just PTO, I can understand charging her for the day and a half, though it seems a bit insensitive of the manager.

      1. Katie the Fed*

        She has sick leave – her boss told her she’d have to take it. Her argument is that she shouldn’t have to burn any leave because this happened on a work trip therefore they put her in the situation where this happened and she shouldn’t have to burn her leave.

    2. Not Today Satan*

      I agree that she shouldn’t have to use her time for that, but unfortunately it seems like most employers are unwilling to “think outside the box” for things like this and will refer to whatever the time off policy is.

    3. C Average*

      I feel like this one is all in the framing.

      It’s such an unusual situation that it’s unlikely that anything in the company policy would offer clear guidance for what to do, and unfortunately in the business world, when someone’s gone from work it has to be classified somehow; most workplaces don’t offer a provision for making up something apropos in weird one-off situations. And since she wasn’t working during that time, it makes sense to look for some bucket of paid time off that best applies. And lacking any bucket labeled “paid time off for work-induced anxiety experienced in the course of business travel,” this seems like the best thing that applies.

      But the boss should have offered a lot of sympathy and acknowledged that it’s a weird situation without any clear guidance or any ideal solution, and that this is the best the company can offer.

      (I’m assuming that the PTO allowance is reasonable. If this is a five-PTO-days-per-year outfit, it would’ve been worthwhile for the boss to go to HR to see if some outside-the-box solution could be crafted to preserve those few days of PTO for non-work-related illnesses or causes for being out of the office.)

      1. Katie the Fed*

        It’s a reasonable allowance – we get sick leave and vacation, but she’s used a lot of her sick leave because she has a new baby, and she doesn’t want to burn through 12 hours for this.

    4. Anon 12*

      So while she has my sympathies, think about it like this. If she had a physical injury, like hitting her head on an overhead during turbulence (or even tripping and falling in the office), she would file a work comp claim and go to the clinic. They let her return to work after a couple of days so she doesn’t meet the waiting period for income replacement so how does she get paid? PTO or sick. No free lunch because it was on the clock. Sounds harsh maybe but that’s how it works.

    5. TotesMaGoats*

      Ugh. I really feel for your friend. That must’ve been so scary and I would’ve taken the time off too. However, I think I would’ve assumed it was just coming out of my sick leave. Maybe there’s a workers comp aspect to it but I don’t know much about that.

      I think she might feel this more keenly because of the lack of leave/new baby situation. But bottom line, no I think it should be PTO. Now, if I was her boss I’d probably find a way to let her “work from home”. Wink wink nudge nudge.

    6. Construction Safety*

      Hmm, talk to HR/Risk management, say you got an occupational illness from a work event & would like to report it so it goes into the WC system…….

    7. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Is this a really rigid, bureaucratic environment where managers don’t have the ability to say “Stay home today and we’ll see you tomorrow” without having to charge it to a specific bank of leave? If not, that’s what her manager should have done. It pays to treat people well, particularly when they’ve been traveling for work.

      1. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

        idk, I wouldn’t do that without talking to HR. The employee had to go to the doctor and get medication related to an incident on a work trip where worker’s comp is in effect.

        Are you (legally) acknowledging it s a work “injury” by giving that day and a half, but then not doing the Other Things You Should Do regarding a work injury? How does that play out in court?

        I think the boss should have shuttled the whole thing to HR to start with. If the employee has long term effects from this incident, this could be one big sticky ball.

        1. krysb*

          I think she has a case for workers’ comp to cover the medical expenses, but not the time off, since there’s no actual impairment (at least in my state).

    8. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

      It’s an awkward situation and I’m sorry for her trouble.

      This either is or is not a work injury. The company and the employees are covered for work injuries so if it’s a work injury, she needs to apply for those things and get whatever benefits. (I believe but am not sure that if she goes that route all of her doctor’s appointments and medication have to be through the worker’s comp plan, not her regular medical insurance. I was insurance a million years ago and that was a very bright line then but idk how today works.)

      If she’s not going to declare it a work injury officially, what can her boss do for her other than what’s been done? I don’t see another path for the boss.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Isn’t the issue though that’s it’s not really an injury at all — just that she’s rattled and wanted some time away to process/calm down?

        1. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

          I’m overly cautious when it comes to legal stuff because I’ve been involved in a few lawsuits over the years so I like to make sure things are just right when there’s potential liability.

          Say the employee (not necessarily this one but An Employee) develops a debilitating PTSD from the incident (or claims to have developed one). She’s already had to take a day off to go a doctor and get meds for it and then leave half a day the next day because talking about the incident was stressful. That’s enough official notice to the company, to me, that something that happened on a work trip and is work related has caused a condition — enough for me to say that’s HR/legal’s call what we do next, not mine.

          Because I can imagine myself in the deposition a year from now saying “Well, yes, I did know this thing happened on a work trip. And yes, I did know she had to get medication for it and see a doctor and that it caused her a continuing problem. And no, I didn’t do anything about it being work related.”

        2. Katie the Fed*

          Well, she did have to get anti-anxiety medication and something to help her sleep, which made me think it was a work issue. But she didn’t seek workers comp protection either.

          1. CAA*

            I think you can make an analogy to someone getting the flu because the person sitting next to her on the plane coughed all over her. You might be able to file a workers comp claim if this happened while you were on a business trip, but I’ve never heard of anyone doing that, and I think the more common thing is that the employee uses her sick time.

            1. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

              Yeah but PTSD is covered by worker’s comp and flu isn’t, so I don’t think the analogy holds. If you google “workers comp ptsd” you’ll find this:

              “Many states, but not all, allow workers’ compensation claims based on PTSD. In order to qualify for benefits, a worker must have experienced or witnessed a traumatic event while acting in the scope of employment, and then suffer PTSD symptoms that interfere with the ability to work.”

              I got my JD the same place I got MD which is why I’d ask HR/legal what the right actions are to take in a situation where it could be worker’s comp.

              1. CAA*

                Well, that’s probably why I haven’t heard of anyone getting workers comp for flu. I did not know PTSD would be treated differently than infectious diseases.

        3. snuffleupagus*

          but does an injury have to be physical for workers comp or can it be mental?
          If I had been making a bank deposit for the office and the bank got robbed leading to me having great anxiety going into a bank with other work deposits, would that be covered by WC?

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Ugh. Ugh.
      She would not have been on that plane if it were not for her job.
      If it were not for her job, she would not have incurred these medical bills.

      I think that stands well by itself. But, here there is the additional info that the company has covered it in the past! This makes her point even stronger.

      Anxiety and trauma ARE real injuries.

      I hope the boss sees the light on this one.

  88. Mallows*

    So last year a co-worker, a completely kind and harmless man, sent out holiday greetings to me (and I’m sure others) via a youtube link. The linked video was a commercial of some sort and was very sweet. However, from that link I could also see his entire youtube channel, whose videos made it very clear he had a foot fetish. I don’t care of course, but I wondered (until I forgot the whole thing, which happened pretty fast): should I have said something, and if so, what and how? He’s in his 60s, old enough to be my dad. We have a friendly relationship – when I traveled for work to his city we always got dinner and usually hit up a sporting event. I’m thinking of it because obviously the time for greetings is upon us.

    3. Mallows*

      I’d bet he sent them to a whole bunch of people (I believe I was the only one on my particular email, or maybe he sent it to me via instant message?). The only reason I would have told him would be to save him from sending it to anyone else.

    4. ZVA*

      This is tough. On the one hand, I’m sure he would want to know about this, if only to stop it from happening again… But on the other, what a mortifying conversation for both of you. I guess I’d come down on the side of not saying anything.

      A bunch of people in my company share a Google Drive account, and I once went to YouTube while logged into it & saw a bunch of videos of women washing cars in bikinis in the viewing history… Kinda porny but in a very softcore way. I don’t know who was watching them & don’t want to; I just changed YouTube’s settings to not save the history moving forward and went about my day. If I had known who was watching the videos, I think I would have done the same thing… It made me feel kind of weird to have that brief window into a coworker’s sex life/fantasies/whatever, but I guess I don’t think that ultimately it’s that big a deal. Not a big enough one to warrant an awkward convo, anyway.

    5. Mints*

      I don’t think you’re close enough that you’re obligated to say anything. Work bestie (or maybe a subordinate?) would be different

  89. KR*

    We have this employee, Rupert, who I have been recommending we fire for months. He’s disruptive, unprofessional, not very reliable, not very productive, unfocused, and his work is filled with errors. It took months of explicitly explaining what business casual means to get him to comply with our dress code (which already includes a uniform shirt! He just has to wear proper pants and footwear!) I’ve already had the talk with my boss that we should fire him because we were constantly having discussions about how not-okay his job performance is and coaching him with little improvement. He has only worked here since the summer and my boss up until now still thinks he has potential and we shouldn’t “give up” on him. Well yesterday while I was out he made a major error that will take hours to rectify and spent the whole day being distracting and goofing off and apparently my boss is ready to give him the “last” final chance. I’m leaving this position in a few weeks so I basically said, “I don’t think he deserves another chance and he should be fired now, but I’m not the one who has to deal with him past Christmas.” Feels good to put the ball in his court.

    1. Mallows*

      That can be the best feeling. I’m in a similar boat and probably am saying too often, “It isn’t my place to own these decisions, and in a month I’ll be 2000 miles away from everyone concerned”. But dang, do I look forward to heaving that carcass out of my backyard permanently.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Good for you! Summer is LONG over, so he really should have been fired by now. Here’s hoping your boss makes the right decision!

  90. KatieKate*

    Has anyone transitioned from non-profit to for-profit? I love my job, my coworkers,ad what I do,but in a few years when I’m out of my 20s I’d love to make more money, in some capacity. I see 90% of the career paths in my specific field, and everyone is overworked and underpaid unless you are a world class fundraiser (I am not). There are also very, very few middle management positions–that is, there’s my job, there’s my boss’s job (20+ years experience), and there’s the ED.

    I currently do program planning and logistics, and I’m curious to what for-profit jobs exist where I can semi-easily transition. I’m thinking about going back for an MBA if that helps.

    1. DCGirl*

      I worked in fund raising for the first half of my career, roughly 1980 to 1999. My running joke was that I knew I’d never be able to buy a brand new car, but I aspired to at least own a used car during the same decade in which it was manufactured.

      I was able to transition out by building on my strong writing skills (I wrote everything in those 19 years — grant applications, direct mail, the alumni magazine, the volunteer handbook, stewardship reports….) to get a job as a proposal manager for a Big 4 accounting firm. I put together, using an MS Word template, a mini-newsletter with a variety of writing samples that helped me get a lot of interviews for positions with heavy writing (i.e, tech writer, public affairs, etc.). In my new position, I put together proposals in response to RFPs for new business, which involved re-purposing re-use material, writing new content, and managing the process in terms of keeping everyone on schedule, coordinating with the graphic designers, and coordinating with the production department. I then parlayed that experience into a job with another Big 4 accounting firm as direct of marketing for one of the practice areas. I then used that experience to move to another company and support all business development activities as a director.

      I would suggest you look at your strengths and market toward those. Program management and logistics? Could you do events work for a company?

    2. DCGirl*

      Oh, and I’ll never forget when I interviewed for that first Big 4 job, they asked me what my salary expectations were. I added $5,000 to my non-profit salary and asked for that, only to be told that their salaries didn’t go that low. I started out making $12,000 a year more than I had in fund raising.

  91. Not Today Satan*

    I’m so frustrated with my job. My boss is basically a task-hoarder and doesn’t give me anything to do. The pattern is basically this: I tell her I need more things to do, and she talks a good game about giving me more projects. Then she lets me work on a project for a day and takes it over herself.

    She’s new to managing and I know it’s that she just doesn’t know how to delegate rather than a lack of faith in my abilities. But I’ve sort of lost hope that anything’s going to change.

    It’s so demoralizing because I’m in my thirties and, not that I think I’m a special snowflake, but I AM a good worker and I’m losing faith I’ll ever get a job where I’ll be given any real responsibility, unless I go to business school or something.

    1. Not Today Satan*

      Also: I’m reluctant to change employers because it seems like every time I take a new job, I’m starting from scratch again in terms of proving myself.

    2. a big fish in a small pond*

      I keep thinking about your post (I read it an hour ago). I’m a manager and I want employees who want to tackle projects and to learn more, but this process is so riddled with time-consuming hassles. It takes SO much time and energy to develop an employee to the point where they can independently handle a project (other than periodic updates / questions, obviously), and with the frequent job-hopping by employees these days, it seems like a waste of time EVEN THOUGH I STRONGLY believe in staff development through effective delegation and that it is the best way to maximize organizational efficiency.

      Let’s assume that you’re a strong performer in your regular responsibilities and that the lack of sharing isn’t related to trust / performance issues. Basically you need to convince your boss that delegating and developing you in this way is worth the investment of their resources. Try finding out what is a task or part of a project that is a real thorn in his/her side and see what you can do to help that.

      An example at our office is that one of my staff members copies and collates our monthly reports for me and she asked if there was anything that I’d like updated and she has earned my trust for these things by showing initiative with creating new spreadsheets. While I know the software and can create them myself, she took it on and gave our reports a totally new feel – completing a task that was way, way down on my list of ideas / to do’s, and it has reinforced her competency and teamwork in my mind. I willingly go to her to have something created or researched or updated because she has proven to me that she’ll take it seriously, perform it thoroughly, will ask questions when appropriate, and won’t hassle me with frequent unnecessary questions.

      Look for small, but meaningful opportunities to help your boss and it is likely they will lead to your becoming a key asset in his/her mind for future opportunities and tasks.

      Good luck!

      1. a big fish in a small pond*

        Sorry, one last thought –
        The key to success on this (in my opinion) is to MAKE IT EASY for your boss to delegate to you.
        Think things like “how can I help you?” “what would make this project easier for you?”

  92. Lovemyjob...truly!*

    My husband works in residential mental health treatment. This is traditionally not a well paying job and his paycheck sticks with that tradition. He works in a house with several residents and approximately 15 staff members and in the hierarchy of management, he’s second in command. His direct supervisor is the manager who deals with the bulk of the paper pushing (lots of red tape with what they do) while my husband is the manager who deals with staffing, scheduling, and the general day to day issues. He’s been there for just over two years and while the work is often stressful, the way they’ve divvied up the work has never been an issue. Recently there has been a change in some of the residents in the house. One resident in particular has created more work for my husband. They’re abusive to the staff and require more care than the other residents which staff is balking at. (The residents are all working toward independent living but this resident was mistakenly placed in his house. They will most likely have to have around the clock care and currently all staff, aside from my husband, are not trained for the kind of care this resident requires.) There are no immediate plans to move this resident out of the house. On top of that there have been major staff shake-ups with more than half the staff quitting and one employee being fired in such a way that the state is now investigating the situation. All of this has resulted in my husband’s work load tripling and based on the lack of applicants to the posted job openings it doesn’t look like that this is going to change any time soon.
    He wants to ask for a raise. His company is ridiculously stingy when it comes to pay (don’t get me started on their ridiculous incentive for working holidays) and the main reason they aren’t attracting applicants is because they’re paying way below what other companies are paying. He’s started putting his application out there but until he’s out he wants to get paid for the work he’s doing. Neither of us have ever asked for a raise. Any advice or tips for him on how to approach this? He knows that he’s going to get push back from his direct supervisor (whose workload hasn’t changed since he’s the person who deals with the paper end of their field). I’d really truly appreciate any and all advice.

    1. KJ*

      I work in the wondrous world of social services as well, although I haven’t worked residential for a while. One of the social services problems is that agencies can generally get away with paying low wages since they are nonprofits- although they are often able to pay better (if they can’t, they need to talk to their funding sources). Often, they take advantage of the fact that people who work in SS tend to be nice and not want to ask for raises (there is a stigma against “doing it for the money”- as if most folks can afford to work for low wages forever).

      So, all that said, your husband should start by making a list of the tasks he completes regularly and well. I know he likely doesn’t have “projects” like some jobs do, but does he file incident reports in a timely fashion? Does he mediate conflict well? Those are accomplishments. Then, he needs to make a time to talk to his boss about what he is doing well and, using his list, ask for an appropriate raise. He should bring up his increased duties, but the raise conversation should be about what he does well and why he deserves a raise.

      Also, is he hourly? And if so, is he getting overtime for all the time he is spending working? If he is working unpaid overtime (and it is super-common in the field) he needs to raise that in a separate conversation, saying “I have been putting in a few extra hours, but I have realized as an hourly employee I can’t do that without authorization. Do you want to authorize me to do overtime? If not, how are we going to delegate some of my duties so I don’t go into overtime?” And he should not continue to do unpaid overtime- either they pay overtime or the work is not done by him. This is HARD to do, as the pressure to “just help a bit” is very real in SS, but he needs to set the boundary.

  93. Facny Pants*

    How do you deal with a coworker that just refuses to work?

    I work with someone that takes everything personally. Example, yesterday I jokingly told her to hand out some flyers, (which was what she was assigned to do) by saying “go get em.” when some customers walked in. She seemed offended and moody the rest of the day. Another day, I just asked her how to get into a case. She told me that she wasn’t assigned to work on the retail floor. So instead of just answering my question, I had to pull someone out of the back to do it. The owner of the shop is already aware but doesn’t seem to do anything. I am worried because he is going to lose good workers because of this person.

    So aside from going to the owner, how do I deal with this on a daily basis? I know this person has a lot of mental problems, but it is affecting business.

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      You need to go to the owner, because, as you said, it’s affecting business. Tell them what you’ve already done to try and make Jane do her job, and say you don’t know what else there is to do. They need to handle it.

      In the meantime, you need to be direct with Jane. Treat her like a toddler; she NEEDS direction and guidance. Explain to her what the consequences are when she fails to do something. That’s really all you can do at this point! It’s up to her to follow the rules or not.

  94. Gandalf the Nude*

    [Grinch]Day 2 of Christmas radio in the office. I’d glue my earbuds in if I could.[/Grinch]

      1. Drew*

        I just had my annual day-after-Thanksgiving “put all the Christmas playlists back on the iPod” ritual, so I’m right with you.

        But I do understand that a lot of other people are not as festive as you or I. :-)

    2. Anon 12*

      I loathe Christmas music. The only thing worse is country singers doing Christmas music. Everything about it makes me grind my teeth. We change morning radio stations at home seasonally to avoid it.

    3. jenniferthebillionth*

      I’m very particular about Christmas music (and all music) and made my own Spotify playlists so that I don’t have to listen to any Christmas wailings by earnest ballad singers. It helps.

  95. C Average*

    This is quasi-related to my job and to jobs I’ve held before, so I’m posting it here. If it’s too general, Alison, feel free to delete it and I’ll save it for the weekend thread.

    What do you guys think about the proposals to raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour across the board, and how do your experiences working minimum-wage jobs inform your opinions about that? I’ve worked for minimum wage in various states at several points in my life and have many thoughts about this. I recently got into a rather contentious discussion with a friend about the subject, and have been trying to clarify my own views. I’d love to hear stories from others who have minimum-wage experience or opinions about minimum wage.

    1. Katie the Fed*

      I’m as bleeding heart as they come, but I think it’s a bit too much of a jump in some places. I think it makes more sense to tie the minimum wage to an annual COLA – like 2 or 3%. That’s what we do in gub’ment.

      1. Natalie*

        Our state raised the minimum wage recently (to $9.50 I think) and I was super excited to find out that they built a COLA increase into the law! It will be raised every couple of years (if warranted) to keep up with inflation.

        I’d like to see this happen with dollar thresholds in law generally. It’s ridiculous that it takes specific actions of government, which are easy to paint in a poor light given how few people remember inflation is a real thing.

    2. Not Today Satan*

      I’d love to see that, but I don’t think it will happen while wages for people in white collar and skilled professions are still down and not making much more than that, since those people tend to not support the movement.

    3. the_scientist*

      I’m 100% for it- in many cities, $15/hour might officially put you above “poverty line” or whatever, but it’s not an actual living wage. Vancouver and Toronto are obviously outliers, but I’m pretty sure “living wage” in Vancouver is about $18/hr. But then again, I’m also a supporter of the guaranteed minimum income, which many analyses indicate will actually *save* money long-term.

      1. Mags*

        $15USD about $20CAD at the moment.

        I very much agree on the minimum income though. I can’t see it happening in the foreseeable future, but I’m a big proponent.

    4. Manders*

      I’m all for it. I’m somewhat biased because I live in an area that has already voted for a $15 minimum wage and is partially through phasing it in. Our local economy is doing fantastically well because people have more spending money. We have one of lowest unemployment rates in the country. The few businesses that did blame the minimum wage for their bankruptcies were replaced by virtually identical businesses that seem to be doing just fine with the higher labor costs.

      Admittedly, I live in an area where a true living wage is something like $16 per hour or more, and an average 1 bedroom apartment is $1500. The higher minimum wage just forced businesses to pay what they probably already should have been paying. We still have a pretty large income gap between our highest and lowest earners, so it didn’t fix all of our city’s problems overnight, but it certainly didn’t hurt either.

      1. Manders*

        Something else that’s a bit weird about my area: we have no state or city income tax at all. Pretty much all tax income is from our almost 10% sales tax, our property taxes, and various taxes tacked onto things like car tabs. When the average citizen has more spending money, that’s a really good thing for our local government because our tax code is so regressive. We tend to be ahead of the country in certain liberal policies like marijuana decriminalization because the more things we legalize, the more we can tax (but we lag far behind in areas like public transit and funding public schools adequately).

        I don’t know how a minimum wage increase might be different in an area with no sales taxes or a significant income tax.

    5. LisaLee*

      I would love to see it, but I think that the economic benefits might be too theoretical for it to be widely supported. Minimum wage just hasn’t kept up with inflation, and I think that minimum wage workers’ inability to afford a decent living is a real problem. If people were able to afford to spend beyond just the necessities I think it would be a huge economic boon.

    6. Gene*

      Given what FDR said when the minimum wage was first enacted, this is long overdue. $15 is barely the “wages of decent living” in many places.

      It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By “business” I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.

    7. orchidsandtea*

      I rather like how they do it in Australia — teenagers have a lower minimum than adults, so there are still starter jobs and affordable low-wage workers, but adults get paid a living wage.

    8. AnotherAlison*

      I’m conflicted on this, too. First, if you looked at inflation from the 1970s, I think minimum wage should at least be the $9/hr range (been a while since I looked) to be consistent with what it was when my parents were getting by an a dollar an hour or whatever. I had an entry level unskilled job in a plant when I was in high school that payed $7.13, when minimum wage was $4.25, so it kind of boggles my mind that people are getting that now, when the cheap rents here were $300 then and $800 now.

      The other piece of it is that I would rather businesses pay their employees the actual wages that it costs to do business. I’d rather a fast food employee get $15 from the company for working than collect a pay check and a government check to survive, and if that means a McD cheeseburger doubles in price, fine. But then you’ve doubled the cost of fast food, so even though you’ve doubled the wages, now the group you were trying to help is hurt. I think the worker group that is asking for the increase doesn’t necessarily stand the potential economic implications. They think it will feel like Christmas, but it probably won’t.

      Yeah, so ultimately, I don’t know. Still conflicted.

      1. Brogrammer*

        Doubling wages would not necessitate doubling prices – wages are only one part of a restaurant’s operating costs.

      2. Natalie*

        “But then you’ve doubled the cost of fast food, so even though you’ve doubled the wages, now the group you were trying to help is hurt.”

        The thing is, this isn’t actually the case. Both theoretical and actual experiments suggest that while there may be a slight inflationary pressure from minimum wage increases, it’s not enough to completely eat up the benefits of the wage increase. If you look at the situation backwards, we have quite a bit of inflation regardless of what’s going on with the minimum wage, so it’s clearly complex enough that minimum wage increases are going to only have a small effect, if any.

        1. Aurion*

          This is interesting. Can you give some keywords to feed to Google so I can look this up further? “Minimum wage experiment”?)

          A doubling of minimum wage wouldn’t cause a doubling in end-user prices due some static overhead (rent, for example), and labour costs at the beginning and middle of the supply chain (manufacturer, distributors/resellers) might not be affected because they don’t pay minimum wage to begin with. But I did expect it to have some significant effects, not the “less than a nickel” Mints mentioned.

      3. AnotherAlison*

        Guys, I get it that it doesn’t literally double the price. It’s a complex topic and a short comment on an internet blog.

    9. Mints*

      I’m for it, hard.

      I worked minimum wage for like three months total in my life. (Although I didn’t get very much over for a couple years.) (Also, I generally identify with “working poor” & “working class” because of my family growing up, even though I’m doing better now in mid twenties and call myself Bougie a lot.) Several thoughts:

      There’s a myth that doubling the minimum wage doubles the price of everything, and that’s just false. You can look at tons of specific cities examples for data. It’ll make your hamburger price go up less than a nickel. There are businesses (ex. Ben & Jerry’s) that have always run this way, without regulations, and the thrive.

      When low wage workers are below the poverty line, we as civilized soceity agree to the safety net in some instances. When people who work minimum wage get food benefits or tax credits or subsidized healthcare, those costs get passed onto tax payers. I think those costs should remain with businesses.

      If a business is too small and unprofitable to afford to pay people $15, it’s too unprofitable to stay in business. If a business owner doesn’t make enough to pay the rent, they go out of business. I don’t understand why employees would bear that burden for the owners. (I mean, I know why, but I don’t “get it.”)

      Lastly, multiplier effect. If I have $100 to stimulate the economy, a poor person will spend almost all of that on bills & rent & food, and that will go to businesses that will spend it on overhead & material & labor, etc etc. Rich people put it into accounts and it accumulates without doing much.

      So, I vote yes on minimum wage increases. I think it works best when it’s phased in, over smaller chunks for a couple years. I also feel strongly it should have cost of living increases built in.

      There is a bleeding heart aspect to this (people who work more than full time should not have to rely on charity or government to not starve.) But the economic (pro capitalist) argument is also very strong in favor.

    10. Office Plant*

      I’m for it in theory. I’d like to live in a world where everyone made at least $15 per hour and nothing else changed. In reality, many businesses won’t be able to afford it. Some will close or hire people under the table. Larger businesses will put more effort into automation, replacing workers with machines. That’s already happening, but a sudden jump in the minimum wage would create an added incentive. Is there a middle ground where everyone can have a decent standard of living while businesses of all kinds can compete and generate a profit? I often wonder.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Well, not as long as housing and other costs are far outstripping wage increases.

        Minimum wage here is still around $7.50 or so, I think. I cannot freaking live on that–it’s not enough to drive back and forth to work.

    11. krysb*

      I mean, here in Nashville (which is a relatively cheap city), the cost of living according to MIT in 2014 for 1 adult with no dependents was $11.04 an hour. In some rural areas it would be lower, of course, but there’s also the fact that the minimum wage hasn’t kept up with inflation. Sure, a big jump hurts, but companies should have thought of that before letting their wages stagnate.

      In other words, I feel little sympathy. For many, current wages mean receiving government funds to live – I’m not opposed to paying into those funds to help people eat, but I am opposed to subsidizing for-profit businesses through tax dollars instead of my buying choices. If a business cannot be profitable while paying living wages to their employees, then they need to rethink their business. Either they’re in a market with little demand or a market with too much supply.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I am with you. In my county it has been established by TPTB that just over $9 per hour is what is necessary to cover living expenses.
        I would like to see the break down on that one.

        I have a theory that if all the minimum wage workers in our country decided not to show up for work one day, our country would be effectively shut right down.
        I have heard the arguments “well that is what the job is worth”. To that I ask, “Who is the one evaluating the job? The company owners? That is not an unbiased source for wage evaluations.”
        “Oh it is what the market decides, people agree to that wage.” Nooooo, people decide that hunger overrides a need to have a sense of self-worth.

        I suspect that one of the side effects of wage increases is that we will see less toxic bosses and lazy coworkers. This is because companies will realize that they have to pay attention to all the problems they could justify ignoring up to now. The help is no longer cheap and they will have to figure out how to get some value out of every single employee. In time there will be a lot more emphasis on being a quality employee.

  96. My cat is a unicorn*

    Masters of Public Administration?

    I have been looking at going back to school for a few years now and leaning towards a Masters instead of another Bachelors Degree. I graduated in 2009 and was never able to find a job in non-profits or any field requiring a degree. Fast forward 7 years and I am ready to take necessary steps to correct my career path. I have always wanted to work in a non-profit or similar organization with cause I believe in and looking at what this Masters provides it seem like it would be a good step towards the future job I would like to have.

    However I am wondering if this degree is more tailored towards someone with non-profit experience and how desirable a candidate with this degree would be?

    Or if anyone has a MPA what advice or suggestion would you have to share?

    1. me again*

      I would definitely spend some time working at a nonprofit before getting the degree…
      1. It will make you more attractive to hiring managers
      2. Really think about why you want to work in a nonprofit.

      My first real job out of college was at a foundation – I wanted to change the world. After working there for a year, I realized that if you really want to make a difference, you are better off volunteering and not working in nonprofit. I’ve moved to a corporation that is still heavily involved in the community and now I come to work and really feel like I am making a difference….. The extra work I am doing through my company I am CHOOSING to do. I’m not doing it because I have to do it to put food on the table, I am doing it truly because it is my passion.

      There are people that love working in nonprofit for their own reasons. However, for me personally I felt like it accomplished the opposite of what I was hoping to achieve.

      I can’t tell you what side of the fence you will fall on, but I strongly encourage you to work at a nonprofit for a year before going back to school for it.

    2. Red Reader*

      I’m partway through an accidental MPA (I was just going to get a PA certificate, which is four courses, but the advisor informed me that based on what I already had under my belt, I only needed two additional courses and the final project to just get the whole degree, so I figured what the hell) and my program isn’t necessarily tailored to someone who has nonprofit experience, but the focus is definitely on governmental and non-profit administration, particularly heavy on policy analysis. From a sheer managerial standpoint (I’m low-tier management for a non-profit medical organization), I’ve gotten a lot more practical administration experience from the MPA courses than my MBA coursework, which is focused heavily toward finance and marketing.

      I have a dear friend with an MPA who went into association administration as well.

  97. Raven the Writer*

    One of my fellow copywriters at Teapot Marketing was recently fired for poor performance, and has now asked me to serve as a reference for her. It’s clear from her email that despite her last meeting with our managers, she sincerely doesn’t understand why she was let go (she left early too often; we had to redo a lot of her work; she made a ton of elementary writing mistakes; and so on).

    I certainly can’t serve as a good recommendation for her, but I don’t want to ice her out or pass it off as, “Sorry, but I can’t.” Any recommendations for what I can say to her in response?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      “I’m not really comfortable doing that in this case since I wasn’t privy to the discussions you had with the managers.”

  98. Lily Rowan*

    Survey question for managers:

    Do you give your staff personal year-end gifts (personal as in from you, not personal as in a Bible with their name on it….)? If yes, how much do you spend? For how many people? And what kind of industry?

    For people with managers, same question but in reverse!

    1. Viola Dace*

      My boss gives me a gift card to a very nice restaurant (different each year) with a value of $200. This is in addition to my bonus and profit sharing. I’m in the finance industry.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        Wow! I’m in the nonprofit world, and $200 per person would be a huge strain on my personal finances.

    3. Natalie*

      Our CEO gave us all really generous ($500) gift cards to a very general retailer this year. In previous job I’ve gotten smaller Amex gift cards, plus we would share out all the food and wine gifts we received from vendors.

    4. SC Anonibrarian*

      I am middle management with a small staff in an independent location, and I give pre-paid Visa cards in whatever amount from $20-80 that I can afford that year (I don’t get paid well either, but for a long time even my little paycheck was less insulting than what they got paid.) I can’t do anything to impact their pay, but I try to make them feel appreciated with small money gifts on their birthdays, work anniversary dates, and at Christmas.

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      I’m not giving gifts to anyone. I’m in an entry-level position and I strongly believe in the “gifts shouldn’t flow up” mindset. But I’m also horribly uncomfortable with GETTING gifts, especially since I’m paid so poorly. I’d much rather receive a decent salary. Tokens don’t make me feel good. They make me feel pathetic.

      1. snuffleupagus*

        +1
        yep. Dinner out as a group and a party here or there is nice but maybe toss me a few extra bucks every week or give me a few extra paid days off instead.

        Having said that, when I was a manager, I would usually buy my staff pizza for lunch or dinner (we sometimes worked 14-18 hours in a day), did cake for bdays, and would every now and then add an extra hour to their timesheet.
        I always made sure they got something in the form of a raise even when I didn’t get anything (there was one year that someone complained I had only given them $.50/hr raise but they back off when I told them I hadn’t gotten a raise in 2 years to make sure THEY got raises).
        yeah, I’m a schmuck who now can’t afford the basics becasue no one advocated for me and got laid off becasue I was one of the more expensive salaries…

    6. PackersFan*

      When I was in the non-profit world my manager got me a business card holder our first Christmas together. It was my first job and my first time having business cards and I absolutely adored the gift and the thought behind it. I still use it to this day.

      Another manager (not in non-profit) got everyone on our team (5 people) a tin of cookies from like Sam’s Club and a $5 gift card to 5 Guys, our favorite team lunch location.

    7. Is it Friday Yet?*

      I’ve received a gift card from Starbucks from a couple of different managers. I have also received a bottle of wine once. I think it is the thought that counts and not necessarily the amount or the gift. Just knowing that your manager cared enough to do something was nice. :)

    9. Sophie Winston*

      This is my first year as a boss. I snagged a company logo item worth ~$25 that my employee has specifically said they wanted. I think they’ll be touched I remembered and tracked it down, while knowing it cost me nothing.

      I don’t expect to receive anything from my boss. In the past I’ve occasionally received small gift cards or small tchotchkes – nothing valued over $20 and usually less than $5 – from bosses. Nothing personal enough to make much of an impact.

  99. SeekingBetter*

    There seems to be a lot of different organizations out where I live that are temp agencies or 3rd-party recruiters for organizations like Manpower, Kforce, Robert Half, etc. But they all pretty much advertise the same four jobs every week from the companies they’re recruiting for. How do they all stay in business and be able to pay so many recruiters/employees that work for them?

  100. New Window*

    580 comments. Here’s hoping this one gets seen!

    Question – how has your workplace handled people arriving and leaving early? Any tips on helping your supervisor understand that strict adherence to butt-in-seats is less productive than allowing for a certain amount of flexibility?

    I work in a small office, and the group I work with is non-exempt. We’re responsible for making sure we keep to our 40 hours each week. There hasn’t really been a written policy, though, on exactly how much flexibility we have with how we schedule that time. Originally we were told that we should stick to our normal office hours except for rare occasions (e.g. once a month). Recently, a couple people have been arriving anywhere between 30-60 minutes early and leaving earlier that day or a later day, and that happens around two times a week. Our supervisor wants this to stop, and to have us be in the office from 8:00 – 4:30 each day, basically no exceptions.

    I’ve been asked by said supervisor to discuss “what to do about this” with just him and the other exempt coworker. He has the authority to allow it, but he basically wants to put a stop to this. On the other hand, he seems willing to at least humor my input. I’ve read AAM enough to know the importance of being available when your coworkers or customers need you, but we don’t have customers coming into our office. Most of the clients we work with are in different time zones and start and end their day at much different times than we do, no matter what our official hours (if anything, arriving earlier would make more sense for us). We do depend on each other for some aspects of our work, but it’s not a constant need. If I could only have access to my coworkers just two hours a day, in most cases that would still be plenty.

    I haven’t been shifting my time, but I know it’s an important and valuable option for those who have reason to use it. I think that having a small amount of flexibility here is a pressure release valve for other aspects of the job my coworkers find restrictive, and I’m concerned that clamping down on this lead to a sharp drop in morale.

    1. Is it Friday Yet?*

      I work in a small office that isn’t so rigid, and honestly this is a huge factor I consider when deciding to look for another job or not. I would really try to make the argument that offering some flexibility would show that the company cares about work/life balance. Even just by giving employees a one hour window, you’re offering more flexibility for doctor’s appointments, daycare drop-offs, working out, etc. It’s less stressful to know that you need to be somewhere between 7:30am and 8:30am than to know you need to be there by 8am.

      As an additional benefit, this could potentially expand the hours that you are available to customers and clients if some are coming in earlier and others are coming in later.

      1. Is it Friday Yet?*

        If he’s concerned that people will abuse the system, maybe you just say it’s a trial period and you’re trusting people will still be responsible to manage their hours? But it’s something that could be taken away?

        1. New Window*

          Ooo, I like that. I think that having control is a big factor here, and this kind of framing will have a better chance of working. Being more available to clients is definitely relevant, too.

          1. CAA*

            Can you setup some core hours that you all agree to? I.e. everyone is in the office between 10:00 AM and 3:30 PM every day, and group meetings can be scheduled during those hours.

            1. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

              This is what my work does. Core hours are 9:30 – 3:30 – you can arrive early enough to leave at 3:30 or arrive at 9:30 and stay your 8 hours + lunch or anything in between – but you can’t come in at 5:30 and leave at 2

          2. Mints*

            For the control thing, maybe a small flex window (7:30-8:30) is default up to the employee (and maybe 30-60 lunch is up to employee) and things outside of that are up to manager discretion. So he gets to approve somebody coming in at 9am or a 90 minute lunch

    2. Mallows*

      I am non-exempt, and my boss is 2 states away so even if she were inclined to micromanage my hours, she really couldn’t. A year ago I turned down a move to a city I really loved because I was concerned I would lose the flexibility I have gained, and I have also lobbied hard to not be moved to another supervisor I know DOES micromanage. So yes, allowing for a couple hours’ flex IS a perk, is part of what makes me so loyal to this company and willing to put up with the downsides, and I would be really irritated to lose the flex. It benefits the company too because I’m thoroughly a morning person and do much more productive and thoughtful work at 7 am than I do at 4 pm.

    3. it happens*

      Good comments already, I would add one more potential issue that supervisor MIGHT have – predictability. Is her issue that she doesn’t know when to expect people to be in the office? In which case, the solution may simply be scheduling in/out times in advance.

    4. Chaordic One*

      It all depends.

      In my office there was was a lot of conflict between the salaried employees (who could come in late and leave early) and the hourly employees who had fixed schedules and who had to clock in and out. Clients would call the lower-level hourly employees when their phone calls, voice mails and emails were not answered immediately by the salaried people. (We didn’t have too many customers stopping by in person.)

      The hourly employees (who were already busy with other duties and paid less) resented having to take the phone calls for the salaried employees when they were not at their desks because they were coming in late or had left early. Sometimes the hourly people could help the callers, but most of the time they just ended up sending them to voice mail, anyway.

      I do think our manager was negligent in often allowing all of the salaried employees to be out of the office at the same time. Anyway, there was a lot of turnover in both hourly and salaried employees at that company.

    5. krysb*

      My company isn’t so rigid. It’s usually surprising when people are in-office earlier than 10 and later than 4-5. We’re mostly salary, too, so there’s no punching of time clocks, either.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Okay so the actual problem he wants to solve is the couple of people that come and go randomly twice a week or so.

      I would remind him that this policy change would be equivalent to punishing the whole group because a couple people abused the system.

      I think he should try reminding people that the policy is to be used once a month or less.
      He could also ask people to shoot him an email the night before to notify him they will be in early the next day. This should not be a lot of emails if everyone is just doing this once a month at most.

      Remind your boss that it is to his advantage to let people come in an hour early so they can go to the doctor’s or whatever at the end of the day. He does not lose hours of productivity and the employee gets to take care of what they need to do.

      I would urge him to go with caution, remind him that he does have good workers who do not abuse the system and this could hurt the good people.

  101. NoReference*

    I’ve been at the same job for nearly 5 years now, and it’s my first job in my professional field (meaning, first job that wasn’t something like coffee shop). It’s with a small company with low turnover. This means my current manager has been my manager for my entire professional life. Now, I’m looking to move on and have no idea what to do when someone requests references. I do not want my current job to know I am looking, but I have no other references that can speak to my work in this field (or who have worked with me in the last 5 years). There is one office manager who left a year ago that I can list, but she was not my direct supervisor. What do people do in this situation?

    1. ASJ*

      Most places will understand that you don’t want your current employer to know you’re job searching. I would think that office manager, as well as trustworthy coworkers/other people you’ve worked with, will suffice.

  103. missj928*

    Another question for today:

    The current position I’m in is my first professional job I have after graduating college. My job is contracted for one year through an outside agency but my workplace has a track record of keeping on the employees on a permanent basis once their contract is up. I get excellent performance reviews from my supervisor and I am commended by my coworkers on my work consistently. I’d love a permanent position if the opportunity arises and my contract is up in less than 3 months. I’d like to approach my supervisor rather quickly to do so. I’d just like some feedback on when I should do this (Should I say I’d like to check in with her?) and on what I should say to her.

    1. ASJ*

      I think you can approach her, but be prepared for her to say she doesn’t know. IME, things like that can be very last minute (I once had a six month contract position, and the boss popped his head in on the second to last day and asked if I could stay for another six months).

      1. missj928*

        Oh, I don’t mind that. I plan on applying for other jobs in case this one doesn’t work out. I just want to express my interest.

        1. Sophie Winston*

          It would be totally appropriate to bring this up with your boss and it’s totally appropriate for you to start looking 3 months before your contract ends if they can’t give you any certainty about your future. Your boss should be expecting this conversation, really should have initiated themselves by now. If you have a one on ones bring it up then. Just be straightforward, something like: ‘I really like working here, and I’m hoping I’ll be able to stay on after my contract ends. How do I go about applying to stay permanently?’ Good or bad, you’ll know where you stand and how much effort you need to put into a job search.

  104. AK*

    Tis the season for office holiday potlucks and Secret Santas (under $15). What are you bringing? Share your ideas to save the rest of us a lot of stealthy Googling while on the clock.

    1. Is it Friday Yet?*

      I bought a mug that says “World’s Okayest Co-worker” and the pie face game! If you haven’t heard of the latter, you need to look it up.

    2. jenniferthebillionth*

      The Oregon Trail card game! As for potlucks, something store-bought as my oven is on the fritz again.

    3. Zoe Karvounopsina*

      We have a limit of under £5 and preferably from a charity shop. My receiver has recently moved house, and wants to get into gardening, so I’m going to get a nice pot, maybe some seeds, and a list of things that work well in a starter garden.

    4. New Window*

      Fun socks from places like Target. They can be festive, weird, fun, frivolous, and also cheap, and also just about impossible to offend someone with.

      1. Temperance*

        I’m probably in the minority, but I HATE socks. I regift when I receive them. Which isn’t quite the same as being offended ;)

    6. SC Anonibrarian*

      We have a $10 limit for our ‘manager’s meeting’ dirty santa (so no real gifting up issues, and no picking something for an individual, thank goodness) and I found a pretty scarf and a mug that matches the scarf pattern. I put them into a decorative (and non-personalized) gift box and I’m pretty happy with it.

    7. Mints*

      I bought “Rejected Princesses” book for my friends white elephant. Buying hard copy books is mostly in the past for me, except for books like these that are visual with great artwork. This book is about awesome bad ass sometimes terrible women who made history but are now glossed over.

  105. limenotapple*

    The email flag discussion this morning reminded me of another thing I’ve been seeing a lot lately…read receipts. I remember getting them a lot when email was new-ish, but then it was years before I saw someone using them again. The people in my organization who use them aren’t management or sending out super important emails-nothing about policy or such. Do a lot of folks use these?

    1. ASJ*

      Not to my knowledge. Read receipts are pretty useless because you can set Outlook, at least, to never send one back.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        Yeah, whenever I get the pop-up telling me the sender has requested a read-receipt, I always decline to send one back.

    2. Leatherwings*

      The only time i’ve ever heard of them being used non-obnxiously is by HR when they send out important benefits notices or something. They’re terrible.

    3. she was a fast machine*

      I used to use them in my last highly dysfunctional workplace where I was not the supervisor but somehow was responsible for sending out very important information/updates/reminders and staff would frequently act as though I’d never sent those emails, or they had never been told of this important stuff they needed to know, etc. and so I had read receipts so I could know if they even opened my emails or if they just completely ignored them.

    5. Sibley*

      So, funny story about these. Earlier this year my company switch from Lotus Notes to Outlook. In Lotus Notes, you could do read receipts and the other person would never know/see anything. Not so in Outlook.

      There were a couple people who switch early, including one guy who did do read receipts in Lotus. Not knowing it would pop up, he set them up in Outlook and forgot about it. 2 days later, he got asked by everyone in the dept who had switched already to turn them off! I mean, it was 4 or 5 of us, all within about 3 hours.

      When we did the training for everyone else, we emphasized that the recipient would get a popup, and could choose not to send anyway. I don’t think any one uses them regularly now.

    6. krysb*

      I use these when I have something specific and time-sensitive to say. My staff doesn’t like to check their email – at all, whatsoever, even though important information is often sent to them, so, for me, it’s sometimes necessary.

  106. Cousin It*

    I attended an alumni networking event recently, and received an offhand comment that my hair was “unprofessionally long”. I have no idea what “too long” means in an office setting. FWIW, I’m a female with stick-straight hair that is its natural color.

    1. she was a fast machine*

      lol wut

      I once worked with a lady whose hair, when not put up in some way or another, would actually touch the ground. She was short(under 5’5″), but it was still a ton of hair. She kept it partially up most of the time so it wouldn’t drag, but she never got flack for it as far as I saw, and in fact got lots of compliments.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        Yeah, I’m imagining hair that is so long that you can sit on it. It’s not my personal style preference, but there’s nothing inherently unprofessional about it.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      Blech. No. Personally, hair that you can sit on isn’t to my taste but unless it’s unkempt, it’s generally unprofessional. Some fields (banking, law) might consider it so. For a while hwen I first started working I cut my hair about shoulder length because it made me look older and I thought more professional but I hate having my hair short. Right now, it’s about mid-back (bra strap level) when fully straightened. Looking polished is the key.

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Well, first of all, that’s crappy. You can choose to wear your hair as long as you like (especially since long hair can easily be pulled back/pinned up).

      However, I can imagine what someone might mean by “unprofessionally long.” “Professionalism” calls for a level of stylishness, and very long hair is currently out of fashion. Also, for many people, when hair gets very long it is no longer healthy-looking (split ends, thinness, etc.).

      1. Lily Rowan*

        I don’t know about being out of style — most of the young women I work with have mid-back hair, it seems to me. And they seem stylish!

    4. Emi.*

      That’s really weird, IMO. Was it just loose? I could see someone thinking that hair past your shoulders looks unprofessional if it’s not styled in some way (even just a clip on the side), and its being straight might contribute to that, since it seems more plain. But I don’t think you should pay too much attention.

    5. Mints*

      This is in the bucket of “unprofessionally bare legs”

      *assuming long skirts/drsses, I’m just being anti pantyhose

    6. Christine*

      Is your hair hanging in your face? Mine does, but I twist it up & clip it. It can be just one person’s opinion.

    7. AnotherAlison*

      I was at an event with a ton of professional women today. The “professional” women seem to have styled, sprayed hair and big statement jewelry. No matter what I do, I can’t pull this off without looking like someone trying to play business lady (even though I’m not young). There were plenty of women there, though, with more casual, natural hair.

      I think the person who said this to you expects women to have the business lady look. Lucky for us, times are changing and that’s not the only acceptable look.

    9. Chaordic One*

      Here’s what “too long” means.

      Is your hair so long that you could easily get it caught in the equipment you work with as part of your job?

      When closing doors, does your hair ever get caught in the closed door?

      If you wear your hair in a beehive, could it get caught in a ceiling fan? (BTW, love those beehives, especially with leggings and tube tops.)

      When walking could you trip over your hair?

      If the answer to all of these questions is “no,” then your hair is not “too long.”

    10. NaoNao*

      I think what they might have been getting at is that extremely long hair is unusual and might attract attention or distract from a “just business” atmosphere in the same way that facial piercings, visible tattoos, unnatural hair colors, or other “alternative” body-choices and decorations are. (This is if it’s worn long/loose).

      Hair that is “natural” has often been seen as unprofessional–whether it’s loose, super curly, or what have you. I’m not saying it *is*, just that it’s seen as “fashion” rather than “business”.

      They may have been hinting that, in general, long, loose hair is more of an under-30 thing. If one sees a woman with long, loose hair, one unconciously associates it with youth. So this person might have been hinting that you are making yourself look younger (and therefore less experienced) than you really are.

      The other thing is, and this is subjective, is that long, loose hair has…shall we say…sensual connotations. In the Victorian era, women would grow their hair as long as possible and keep it up, only letting it down for husbands or for their maid to see. It was considered a kind of intimacy (hence the phrase “letting your hair down” to mean being physically and emotionally free). Since long hair is widely considered to be a major point of attraction, wearing long, loose hair in the office is somewhat similar to wearing low cut outfits, super tight outfits, short skirts, or ultra high heels. It can be considered as “on the edge” of what’s “office-appropriate”.

  107. Lissa*

    I mostly work for one organization but sometimes will do one-off freelancing at other organizations. This week I had a job at a new organization and they were really badly set up, to the point that I couldn’t do the job I was hired to do (think sign language interpreter, but that’s not it.) I basically sat and didn’t work, while feeling horrible that I couldn’t brainstorm a way to somehow make it work. Nobody blamed me but it was really obviously not ideal and the people I was there to support did not get that support.

    This is super frustrating and kind of upsetting. A) there’s a chance I might transition to working more for that organization later so I was really hoping to impress them and B) someone there was an old coworker for my old job and I was also hoping to impress her for totally selfish dumb reasons. I was never very awesome at my old job, and felt like I got by on being friendly and reliable *a lot*. But I’m legitimately excellent at what I do now and I admit I was kinda hoping to prove I’m not useless to former coworker.

    Oh well . . . seems I still have unresolved issues about being only an adequate employee for so long!

  108. Negotiating a Job Title*

    I’m wondering if anyone has some general feedback on a question I have! I applied for a Manager position at a company, and after my first interview they said they wanted to consider me instead for a Specialist position in the same (small) department, but emphasized that it was the same level.

    I read the great post on negotiating a different title, and I’m thinking of doing that if I do get an offer. (I’ve already had a second interview so things are looking good.) But do others agree with me that “specialist,” like “coordinator,” seems more junior than “manager”? I was thinking I’d propose a change to “manager” on the principle that they’re the same level and so should have similar titles.

    But “specialist” isn’t a title I’ve run into a lot, so I’m wondering if I’m alone in thinking it sounds more junior than “manager.”

    1. Emi.*

      “Specialist” sounds like a different track to me, but not lower. I would just think your role was more to be a subject matter expert than to supervise people.

      1. Mints*

        +1
        Specialist sounds like internal consulting, research, analysis.
        Manager sounds like being in charge of people and departments.

  109. lionelrichiesclayhead*

    Just wanted to ask the group for some positive thoughts for my boyfriend in his job search. He received word that his #1 job possibility is prepared to give him an offer but is jumping through reference hoops before they will give him the specifics. Not really sure why since aren’t all job offers dependent upon good references and a background check? Just give him the dern offer.

    He’s gotten five glowing references from his last job but they want one reference from a job he held 10 years ago and is having trouble tracking down someone. Note to job searchers-it’s best to get this stuff before you need it.

  110. Anon T*

    What’s the difference between “Senior Secretary” and “Administrative Assistant?” I just got an interview for the former someplace that, according to Glassdoor, employs both.

    1. H.C.*

      I used to work in a large org that has both. The responsibilities are nearly the same, but most of the ones with the secretary titles have been with the organization longer – so I just assumed HR didn’t retroactively change their position titles, but moved forward with administrative assistants going forward.

      I’ve also observed that secretaries tend to support only 1 or 2 people vs. admin assistants who support a bigger staff (a division or department). However, I can’t tell if that’s an actual difference between the two positions, or part of the trend (like the title) where admin professionals tend to provide support to a bigger group of people.

    2. Mints*

      I think H.C. is probably right but I’d just ask (“I saw online that there’s also openings for Administrative Assistants – can you tell me about that? – they sound like similar roles?”

  111. Coffee Addict*

    Hi all,
    I’ll be reaching out to my team, too, but I was hoping you all might weigh in on a fun question. My small team (10-12) is having a retreat and I’m in charge of games for the evening entertainment (probably more like board games than icebreakers, but I’m open to suggestions). Apples to Apples is the first thing that comes to my mind, and I’m unsure of whether poker (with chips! not money) would be a good idea. Mafia? Or is encouraging lying a bad idea at a work function…

    Thoughts?

    1. Dawn*

      Do you have a budget to buy new board games? If not, you could always ask people to bring their favorite board game or maybe your local library has some you could check out. There probably aren’t many games that could handle 10-12 people, but y’all could break off into smaller groups.

      There’s always Werewolf (playwerewolf.co)- you don’t really need a deck to play it at all, you can just write stuff on slips of paper if you need to. That’s always a fun one to play with a big group of people and doesn’t have to involve getting up and moving around if people are tired at the end of the day or have a movement disability.

      1. Coffee Addict*

        Ooh – great thought! I’ve played Werewolf once and really liked it. I do have a small budget and could get that.

        1. H.C.*

          Werewolf is fun but the problem is that people who are eliminated early are excluded from the majority of the game; there’s a variant called “One Night Werewolf” that ensures everyone participates for the entire game (as the name suggests, takes place over one night & the following day).

          1. Coffee Addict*

            Oh – that’s the one I played. I hadn’t realized there were two variations – thanks for the clarification!

    2. Allison*

      If there’s a TV and a way to plug in a laptop or game console, check out Jackbox Games. They have these games, many of them trivia-related, people can sign into on their phones and play as a group. You do have to buy them though, so maybe this isn’t a good idea if this is all out of pocket. Party Pack 2 has some good ones though, I really liked Lie Swatter and Fibbage.

      I’m all into games, but most of the ones coming to mind are either complicated (deck building type stuff), or involve bad things happening to kittens.

        1. Temperance*

          Okay so as an avid tabletop gamer, I will say that Exploding Kittens is fun, but a group of 10-12 is WAY too large. We tried playing with 10 last NYE, and it was awful.

    3. Down Home Auditor in SC*

      Telestrations!

      It’s like the game Telephone that you played as a kid, but with drawing. Hilarious!

    4. Nanc*

      Jigsaw puzzles. You can work on them as a group without being competitive. Libraries often have them to check out or $1 store may have them.

    5. LadyKelvin*

      We have quelf and pull it out at parties. It’s a fun totally random board game that can be played as individuals or teams, can be a drinking game, can not be a drinking game, and is pretty innocent so no worries about offending people like certain other card games (adult versions of Apples to Apples…).

    6. New Window*

      I would recommend a cooperative board game. Rather than players competing against each other, they have to coordinate and work together to achieve the objective. For those of us who are super competitive (*cough*) it can be easier to have fun with the team rather than worry about losing to everyone. It also fosters more conversation between people as you play, too.

      Mysterium is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, but they shouldn’t be to hard to find in a search.

      1. Emi.*

        Pandemic (fighting four infectious diseases) is a really good one, as is Forbidden Island (rescuing treasure before the eponymous island sinks into the ocean). Forbidden Island is less complex, partly because everyone has the same powers. In Pandemic, people draw different role cards–the Medic can heal people faster; the Scientist can find a cure with fewer cards, and so on–and you also need more strategic planning about sharing resources so it’s more cooperative. (The planning discussions usually end up having an unofficial leader, so if one of your employees is super bossy that could be annoying.)

      2. H.C.*

        I love Mysterium, but it does have quite a steep learning curve, especially if all the players are new to the game (it helps immensely to have at least one experience player to be the ghost, at least for the first round)

        1. Natalie*

          I haven’t played it, but I’ve heard Castle Panic is a good cooperative game that is pretty easy to learn. You’d need two, though, apparently it’s only for 6 or fewer people.

      3. Lissa*

        I like cooperative board games, but I’ve also seen some people treat them like they’re the answer to all board game drama, but that’s not necessarily true. They help people who are super competitive not do that, but can often cause more anxiety for some people (me, *cough*) who worry about letting down the team, especially if there are people there who get over the top when someone makes a bad move.

        All my friends want to play lately are cooperative games, and I do like them but because I don’t really care about winning, sometimes I just want my mess-ups to be my own!

        1. Temperance*

          I’m SUPER competitive, and I am so much worse with co-op games than I am traditional games.

        2. Ultraviolet*

          I dislike the cooperative games I’ve tried for the same reason. Same goes for the team-based ones–not sure whether those are usually included in the cooperative games genre, but I just mean the ones where your team is meant to coordinate their moves in some way, as opposed to something like charades where you’re all doing roughly the same thing to contribute points to your team. Sorry if that distinction only makes sense in my head! I played them with fellow grad students and these games really replicated some of my least favorite dynamics of our lab.

    7. H.C.*

      One of my favorite easy-to-learn, cooperative-competitive game is La Boca; where you work with another player to build colored block structures to match your respective diagrams (you can’t see each others goal, so have to rely on verbal communication to move the blocks around) getting more points the faster you do them.

      What I love most about this game is that each player is partnered with everyone else at least twice, so there’s no team favoritism.

      For something more straightforward (& straightup competitive), there’s Tsuru – a path building game where you try to build the longest possible path to keep your game piece on the board (while trying to lead other game pieces to the edge, making them lose).

    8. RVA Cat*

      Maybe have a selection of 3 or 4 games so folks can split up into smaller groups? Say, Apples to Apples at one table, Settlers of Catan at another, card game at the third.

      Since it’s work, Cards Against Humanity is right out unless you want an HR disaster….

    9. Stephern*

      Have you heard of Candy Introductions? It’s icebreaker-ish. You buy a variety of candy (wrappers of various colors). And for each color, you think of a fun/interesting question. For example: when you were a child, what did you want to be when you grow up? If you could have any super power, what would it be? And so on. You’re assigning each color a question.

      Pass around the candy, have everyone pick 4-5 pieces. Then go around the room, have a person pick a piece of candy and then have them answer the question associated with it. You’ll have the color/question combo written where everyone can see it, or pass out small sheets of paper to everyone.

      This is really simple, but has always been a big hit; you learn random facts about people that might not have come up in normal conversation. It’s a very non-threatening icebreaker.

    10. Mints*

      My favorite ice breaker game is “two truths and a lie” No equipment required. It can go completely professional or veer into fun, depending.
      (My first job was dressed as a giant chicken. I was the only Mints at my last two jobs. My secret ambition is to be a cooking judge.)
      (I have dual citizenship. I’ve never been to Disneyland. I’ve broken one bone.)

    11. Jillociraptor*

      Heads Up is both a board game and an app, and is really fun. It’s similar to charades, but kind of in reverse. The person who’s “it” puts a card or the phone on their forehead and it shows a prompt. The rest of the participants have to give them clues to guess the prompt. There are a few categories: songs, movies, sports, celebrities.

      Concept is a game where you use a board of symbols to try to get the rest of the group to guess a prompt. You have little markers you put next to various symbols. For example, boyfriend got Justin Bieber and put the markers next to a microphone, a man, and a baby.

      Balderdash is one of our go-tos for having friends over for games. The prompt is a word and everyone writes down a fake definition. (The person who’s “it” for that round writes down the real definition.) Then everyone votes on what they think is the real definition. You get points if people pick yours. There’s also a version that has movie titles and you write down the plot, which is my favorite!

      1. Mints*

        These are all great!

        I also just remembered a game called Code Names. In this game there are two teams of several people, and one of each team to be Spymaster. There’s a grid of like 20 cards with words on them face up. And a secret grid (only for the two Spymasters) that specify which words are for each team plus some neutral cards and an instant death card. Spymaster gives a one word clue and a number representing how many cards your team should guess. So if one of your words is “pine” you can be conservative and say “Tree, 1.” And it’s a slam dunk. You can be ambitious and say “Smell, 3” to try to get “Pine, Dog, Popcorn.” It’s super fun and good for a mixed group where people are more or less competitive and you can leave for a bathroom break or if you’re terrible and tap out

    12. DaBlonde*

      There is a game called Codenames that is great for groups as it is played in two teams that can have as many team-members as you like.
      To play, you place 25 cards with words on them in a 5×5 grid, each team has one clue giver and all the other team-members are guessers.
      The clue givers can see a code sheet that tells them which words on the grid belong to their team and the clue giver’s job is to give a one word clue that will lead his teammates to guessing one or more of their words. (Like the gameshow Password.)
      For example if I managed to have both horse and donkey as team words I may give the clue equine -2 which would tell my teammates to try and find two words on the grid that relates to equines.
      It is a lot of fun in a big group, supports lots of different play styles and abilities and people can be added or leave without disrupting play as long as they are not the clue giver.

    13. Ultraviolet*

      My family recently tried a board game called “The Game of Things.” There’s a deck of cards with prompts that all take the form “Things that ____.” I recall stuff like “Things that are cold,” “Things that would make baseball more exciting,” and “Things that I would do if I were President.” Everyone writes down a response on a slip of paper, and then someone reads all the responses out loud and everyone takes turns trying to guess who said what. It can be funny and I imagine it would work pretty well at a retreat. A pitfall would be if just one or two people know the rest of the team much less well than everyone else does–they could potentially end up feeling disadvantaged.

  112. Alice*

    PSA on maintaining good relations with colleagues

    If you find yourself saying to a colleague, “You have NO IDEA…” — consider whether you should rephrase.

    Unless the full sentence is “You have NO IDEA how helpful that was — thanks!” That sentence is ok. Otherwise, think twice.

  113. Yo Teach!*

    AAM Adjuncts out there?

    I got a gig (!) teaching a college level class in my field (graphic design), with opportunities to teach a lot more if the first class goes well. I’m actually new to GD in general (2yrs), but they were impressed with my reputation, portfolio, and preparation (thanks Alison). I have been TA’ing/tutoring this past year and it has been invaluable, but…

    Any teachers out there with tips on how to make the jump? Any books your read that were particularly helpful? Resources? Insights?

    1. Jean*

      Upthread today someone posted about being hired as an adjunct. I don’t remember the poster’s name but you could search for “adjunct.” Good luck in your new job!

    2. c'est la vie*

      I’ve adjuncted for about 8 years. Is this a new class? Can they give you a syllabus from past semesters? If not, look for the official course syllabus. Is there a required text book? Required projects?

      Once you know the student learning objectives and required elements, you can design your class. Everything you do with your students should build towards the goals of the course.

      Books: McKeachie’s Teaching Tips is a classic. If you have to create your schedule from scratch, consider Fink’s Creating Significant Learning Experiences :An Integrated Approach to Designing College Courses. I also really like Barkley’s Student Engagement Techniques: A Handbook for College Faculty

      Have fun!

  114. Professor Marvel*

    Thank you to everyone responding last week to my frustration about our Development Director. The ED sat down with the treasurer and said there needs to be serious changes. She told him that if DD worked for her she would have been fired that past week. They are planning a meeting of the foundation’s executive officers and the ED and Board Chair of the non-profit. Yay! Of course DD keeps piling up examples of why she’s not competent. She just wrote an email saying, “Last year Professor Marvel didn’t know how to handle X last year and the sky will fall this year because non-profit will close for the week of Christmas to New Year’s.” She of course sent it to multiple people. ED responded via email, “No, we discussed this last year and you were wrong and Y is the law. Why are you bringing it up again? Here’s the email string from last year where I quoted the regulations.” “Oh, yes, ED, you’re right.” Of course no recognition that she tried to make me look bad.

    ED took a project out of DD’s hands and told her the non-profit would run it rather than the foundation. Of course DD is trying to complicate an event that is less than two months away. I can only hope she’ll be gone by then.

  115. Chick Cop*

    All 10 years of my adult career, I’ve been a police officer. I’ve generally excelled (who would have guessed that this would be a good fit for the shy, sheltered, church girl?!) and am now a detective at a small police agency. Because I’m the only female detective in the county, I get called in to do a large number of the sex crimes, especially those involving children. I am burnt out.
    I want to transition into something else, not in law enforcement. This might be selfish, but I’m tired of asking kids about who touched them where and holding victim’s hands in the hospital in the wee hours of the morning. I’m tired of death notification and dead bodies and search warrants. I have no idea what type of job I can transition to where I can use the skills I’ve learned. This won’t be tomorrow, but probably in the next 2-3 years. Any ideas?

    1. Intern*

      It might be too close to home, but have you thought about victim/witness advocate? Thanks for all you do!

    2. Manders*

      I have some friends who are police officers, and from what I’ve heard, burnout is very normal for people who have to deal with sex crimes. Does your department have any policies about how long someone is supposed to stay in this role or whether they’re supposed to have a certain amount of time off after a certain amount of work?

      I also know several people who transitioned from police work into private security. The pay is usually lower but so is the stress.

      1. Chick Cop*

        Our department has exactly 7 written policies: Use of Force, Appropriate Appearance, Overtime, Holiday Pay, Running Vehicles, Arrests, and Taser. Its a little embarrassing. There is no policy about sex crimes investigation, and realistically, no one else in my 18 person department wants to investigate them, especially crimes against children. While my job has one of the most coveted shifts (day shift, 4-10’s, weekends and holidays off), it also has some of the least appealing aspects (on call 2 out of every 4 weeks, the type of investigations are heart-wrenching, and there’s not a single bodily fluid I haven’t had on me in the past year).

        Security wouldn’t be terrible. I’m not sure there’s a huge market for it where I live, but loss prevention for stores might be a way to go.

        1. Cryptic Critter*

          Maybe looking into doing fraud cases for insurance companies?
          Lots of overlap and less stress.

          2. AnotherAlison*

            I was going to suggest something similar. My husband has a friend who is basically a solopreneur who finds people for insurance payouts. He drives/flies around the country to locate people and deliver checks, and gets paid a percent of the check. (At least this is how my husband explained it to me.)

        2. Manders*

          If you have a hospital near you, especially one with an ER, they really appreciate having security staff with police training. That might be a good place to start looking.

          Of course, you’re going to see plenty of bodily fluids and people at their worst in the ER, so if that’s not something you want to deal with anymore then maybe loss prevention would be a better bet.

        3. Colette*

          I’m sure no one wants to do it, but you don’t want to do it anymore either. There’s nothing to lose in asking to be moved off of it if you’re looking at leaving anyway (assuming your colleagues would react reasonably).

    5. LisaLee*

      What about teaching? Is there a community college near you that does law enforcement courses or a police academy?

      I also have a friend who used to work in law enforcement who now works for FEMA as an emergency services coordinator. He works with local agencies to coordinate responses to disasters. Would that be up your alley?

      1. Lemon Zinger*

        I was going to suggest this. Many of my local CCs are in need of former detectives to teach courses like that!

    6. Okie Not From Muskogee*

      Focus on transferable skills rather than specific job duties. The majority of actual police work is paperwork, so you’re going to be an easy sell for any administrative job. Ditto with attention to detail, knowledge of/adherence to legal codes/policies, etc. If you’re interested in anything LEO-adjacent, have you considered grant writing for LE agencies, crime analysis as a non sworn employee, anything like that? (For agencies larger than yours, probably.) What about other municipal/city employment? You’ve proven to be trustworthy, so jobs where you handle sensitive materials or money or whatever would be easy (treasurer’s office, finance, code enforcement are options if you want to keep those sweet municipal benefits!). And you shouldn’t have a problem passing a background check!

      Otherwise, you’re probably a shoe in for anything managerial, or would be fast tracked for promotion. LEOs know how to take command, run squads, give clear orders/instructions, etc. Sell your leadership abilities, your ability to work well within a team, motivating others to produce… If you’re planning to make your move in the next couple of years, see if you can start networking or going to training that will cultivate the skills you think you’ll need for your dream job.

      Dont get hung up on the specifics of what you do. From one LEO chick to another, I get it. And there ARE options. I joke all the time that my retirement job will be some entry level, low stress retail job. “You don’t want to buy that? No problem, pal.” How much will I care? Zero. Zero much. You get to the point where you’ve just seen too many bodies, too much pain… I look forward to the days when the worst thing that happens is I miss out on a sale. And I don’t mean to trivialize sales jobs! But if I never have to see another…well, you know. I’m looking forward to it.

      You got this, girl. Good luck.

    8. Office Plant*

      For what it’s worth, I think a lot of people would be impressed by your work and understand needing a break from it. I think plenty of employers would hire someone of your background even if it didn’t match the criteria in the job posting. Do you have any thoughts on what you’d like to do next?

      1. Hibiscus*

        There is an Uber driver in my area who is a former cop with a PI license; his son is getting a degree in computer science/forensics and then he will team up with his dad and they will have an agency.

  116. Intern*

    Can anyone give me suggestions on how to word thank you notes to managers after an internship? Not looking to get hired full time right now, because of school, but these are definitely not doors I want to close. Thanks!

    1. a big fish in a small pond*

      You’re off to a great start by knowing that the thank you note is a great idea! (I can’t believe how many people don’t write notes anymore – this will truly set you apart)

      I’d suggest keeping it short and friendly, and mention your key takeaway(s) from the experience – if possible something specific you learned from him/her directly.

      Dear Mark,
      Thank you so much for taking the time to show me the ropes (or train or provide guidance or…) during this internship. I am so grateful to have had this opportunity with Teapot Company and to work directly with you. I’ve learned so much during this internship and I’ll always remember the advice / suggestion / guidance / professional example you provided.

        1. a big fish in a small pond*

          For this I’d say handwritten, but for interviews an email is good (due to the pace of the hiring process). Good luck :)

  117. mouse z*

    I just started a new job as IT Technician for a start-up. I report to the Director of HR, and there aren’t any plans right now for additional IT staff. Can I represent myself to vendors as “Head of IT,” or should I stick to my actual title? Is there another way to subtlety communicate that I’m the only person who they need to talk to? I’m a young woman and our industry is very male dominated, so I’m concerned about being underestimated or not taken seriously.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I would stick with IT Technician unless you can get Director of HR to change your title. Honestly, the sexist douches who underestimate women or don’t take women seriously also are the sexist douches who won’t care if you’re “Head of IT” or “CTO.”

    2. KR*

      I would stick with your title so you’re not misrepresenting yourself, but definitely appeal to HR to get your title changed. I’m an IT technician but I report to the IT Coordinator who does long term planning and represents the organization in a technical sense. The title of technician doesn’t accurately reflect the type of work you do if you’re the only one there.

    3. Product person*

      I am a woman in tech and with director on my title, and I’m going to disagree here. You are perfectly justified with calling yourself “head of IT” because regardless of your current title, that’s what you are!

      It would be different if you using a title like CIO or IT Director, but head of IT is a generic term that everybody knows is meant to clarify your role when the actual title doesn’t help. I say go for it!

  118. Demoralized Union Worker*

    We started negotiating our union contract for the next 4 years. Everyone in my union is a professional worker with at least a college degree. Many of Us have a master’s degree as well. We are public sector employees.

    The management team proposed 0% salary increases for all years of the contract. This was the same for our last contract as well. So employees would be going on a decade without so much as a 1% raise while health insurance premiums gone up, etc. :(

    1. ASJ*

      That sucks. I joined the union late at my work (late as in, the contract expired about two months after I started working here) but I think something similar went on. Needless to say, it took a while for things to get hashed out. Don’t lose hope. Keep pushing!

  119. katamia*

    I’ve been volunteering at my local Friends of the Library bookstore since March. I’m really good at it (unlike a lot of my paying work, it plays to a lot of my strengths, and I’ve gotten compliments from my “coworkers” about how good I am at it, so I’m confident in saying that I’m good at it).

    However, I have health issues that have caused me to reschedule a lot–I usually work Tuesdays from 3-7, but I’ve had to call pretty often to change my time (though I still come in once a week for the same time). They have never said they mind (they all really seem to like me), but that doesn’t mean they don’t mind. I’ve never NC/NSed, but my health status changes a lot, so sometimes it’s been short notice/calling only a couple hours before I’m scheduled. There’s no coverage issue; I sort books, which needs to be done but doesn’t need to be done Tuesdays from 3-7 every week.

    One of the reasons I started volunteering was because, being self-employed for several years and having worked mostly in jobs that were very bad fits before then, I don’t have references. I’m applying for a job overseas that I desperately want that requires a reference letter. Do you think it’s okay to ask my “boss” despite my frequent schedule changes? My other option is a neighbor who was my boss for my first job out of college (I did nothing wrong but also was apathetic and didn’t take initiative) who’s been a family friend for 20+ years and who’s hired me to do some independent contracting a few times too.

    1. VolunteercoordinatorinNOVA*

      I give lots of references for volunteers so I would definitely ask as you may be more aware of these “issues” than they are. When you deal with lots of volunteers, certain things are much more normal and for me, it’s all about how you handle it as I understand people have lives outside of volunteering and that often causes challenges but I appreciate when they communicate that to me and are willing to help out when needed.

      The one thing that I always find helpful is when volunteers give me some idea of the job their applying for and if they see any connection between their volunteer time and the job. This makes it easier when talking/writing to folks. Good luck!

      1. katamia*

        Thanks!

        I’ll make sure to think up a little spiel about the job before I ask, too. That didn’t occur to me, although it probably should have.

      2. Jean*

        VCinNOVA, if NOVA means Northern Virginia, then we are neighbors. May we connect offline to discuss possible volunteer opportunities at your organization? My skills include copyediting/proofreading and managing administrative details. Please email me at blog.post.contact(at)gmail.com. That address is anonymous, but I am a real person. Thank you!

  120. Gene*

    Alison, since this verges on politics, please feel free to not approve it.

    Donna Ballman, Employment law blogger and regular source for Alison, has been publishing a series on possible changes we might see with the new administration. They have been a good read.

    http://employeeatty.blogspot.com/

  121. CollegeAdmin*

    I found a job posting that would have me working for someone I was a very close colleague/peer with until she left about a year ago. It’s for an assistant director position in a 3-person office; she is the director. How do I write this cover letter? The major project I would talk about is one that she and I did together, so it feels a little silly to explain it like I normally would.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      “As you know, I have experience with chocolate teapots that would fit well with this position…”

    2. Drew*

      “I’m very excited about the chance to work with you on Teapot Management. The work we did on Teapot Administration last year certainly seems like it would carry over to this new position nicely.”

      No point in pretending you both aren’t who you are.

  122. Long Time Listener, First Time Caller*

    I’m a candidate for this job and everything about it is great except one huge thing – the commute! On a good day it’s an hour from my house. On a normal/bad day, it could take up to 2/2.5 hours. I’m scared to take the offer b/c I’m really worried I can’t handle the commute. However, I’m in a bad place at my job and I really really really really need to leave. Since it’s the holiday season, job postings have dried up and interviewing has come to a standstill. I want to resume my job search in January but I’m expecting the offer any day now. Again, my current job makes me miserable and I don’t know how much more I can take.

    So here’s my question – would it be awful if I took the job and ended up leaving in a few months b/c I couldn’t handle the commute? I realize if I do this, I’ll be burning a bridge to this company forever. I do want to give this new job everything I can but I know from friends that commute similar distances, the traffic is soul-crushing. They’re able to handle it b/c their companies provide shuttles so they’re not behind the wheel. Unfortunately, that won’t be my situation. Any advice??

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Don’t do it. It’s unfair to the employer (especially if they’re on the smaller side), it’s unfair to the person who really wants that job but won’t get it if you take it, and it’s operating in bad faith. Other jobs will come along.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I think it is pretty terrible to take a job and know that you’re planning to leave in a few months. You’d be wasting their time. It’s unethical.

      Is there anything this job could do to make the commute tolerable to you? Working from home three days a week? Four 10 hour days instead of five 8 hour days? etc.

      1. Long Time Listener, First Time Caller*

        If they let me work from home 3 days a week, I think I’d be fine. I also think that I’d be able to negotiate this arrangement since they acknowledged that my commute would be pretty heinous. However, they were recently acquired by a large company and my interviewers warned me they don’t know what’s in store for the department. Based on my AAM reading, even if they initially let me work from home 3 days a week, there’s chance with the new leadership that I may rescind this arrangement and require that I come in everyday. That’s a huge fear!

    3. Permanent project manager*

      Don’t take the job. If you’re questioning the commute already, it’s going to be much worse when you’re actually doing it every day. Your current job is miserable, but it sounds like this would be, too, just in a different way. Focus on doing whatever it takes to make your current job tolerable enough until you can get out for something that’s closer to home.

    4. SeekingBetter*

      I had interviewed for a job that was a good fit for me this summer. The job was located in a company about 2.5 hours away. During the initial interview, the interviewer told me the drive isn’t pleasant and moving closer would be an option. I didn’t want to move at the time and decided to withdraw my candidacy.

    5. Mazzy*

      I wouldn’t. I once stayed at a job for only a few months with a commute like this and left for other reasons, but the stress of the commute was seriously bad. It wasn’t only the time involved, it was the stress. You never knew what was going to happen. You’d plan to go to the gym and then you’d get stuck in traffic and have to skip. You’d plan to cook but get home too late. Not to mention how stiff I was sitting so long in the car. And even though I made what felt like unlimited playlists and bought ebooks for the car, everything got old really, really quick. At the end of the day, it didn’t feel natural to listen to story time or music or even the news for so much time per day.

  123. Surprisingly Unmotivated*

    I am about two months into a new job that sounds perfect on paper. I’ve previously been a Teapot Engineer and a Teapot Project Manager, and this job is Teapot Engineer combined with planning/executing some minor Teapot Engineering Instruction, which is great since I love teaching, too. I took this because my previous job doing 100% engineering didn’t involve enough interaction with people, but also because my boss had become critical to the point of feeling almost like abuse.

    I enjoy most aspects of the job, but I’m finding myself watching the clock and getting sucked into the internet and generally avoiding work, which is really uncharacteristic of me. I’m usually a hard-working high achiever, to the point that I’ve had to set alarms to remind myself to leave work in time to pick up my kids, or I’d get so sucked into my work that I’d forget. I’ve got several different kinds of projects, most of which have vague requirements and no deadlines, so I find myself jumping from project to project and never making much progress. My boss seems pleased with what I have produced so far, and has given me positive feedback, but I don’t feel good about how I spend my time at work or the amount of work I’m producing, and I have to force myself to work full days.

    I don’t know how to fix this. I don’t want to ask my boss for more structure, because this feels like the type of job that should be pretty independent. It’s a newly created role and I’m the second hire for the department after my boss. Part of me feels like I should just decide that this is how it is, and if my boss is happy, not to worry about it, but I don’t feel good wasting so much time and producing so little. How do I get myself to just buckle down and focus and get things done?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Newly created roles often end up being defined by the first few people who do the jobs.
      Can you motivate yourself using this idea? Can you decide that you are setting the standard for the future occupants of your slot?

      Can you scare yourself? “If I keep playing on the internet everyday at some point it will become a huge issue that I will not be able to fix!”

      Maybe you can think about career goals. “Hmmm. I think I will tackle project W and see that through to its conclusion, it will be good for my career, look great on a resume,etc.”

      I’d line up several of these tools because it would not be unusual for one or more not to work on a given day, so when one tool does not work then you can bump to the next one.

      Very early on in my working years I saw that if I did not want my job, or act like I wanted my job someone would come along and actually DO my job. Then I would feel like such an idiot. I hated that feeling, so very much.

  124. Grey*

    Pet peeve: Stop leaving signs on your office/shop door that say “Back in 15 minutes”. That’s only useful if I know what time you left!

    1. Gandalf the Nude*

      It won’t give you the exact time they’ll return, but it will tell you you’ll have to wait no more than 15 minutes.

      1. Grey*

        If I know that they left 14 minutes ago, sure, I’ll wait a minute. Otherwise, I’m not sticking around for what could be a full 15 minutes, especially if going somewhere else will take less time than that.

        Why not post a sign that says “Back at 2:45” or whatever?

        1. Gandalf the Nude*

          Because then they’d have to make or change the sign each time they left. The 15 minute sign can be re-used ad infinitum. It’s not intended to say, “Wait for me, I’ll be right back.” It means, “Go kill 15 minutes. I’ll be back by then.”

        2. Charlotte Collins*

          Probably because they have one sign that they post as needed. They’re being environmental.

          I always see it as the person ran out to a nearby business (or is in the back using the bathroom but locking the door for security purposes) and will be back soon.

          1. Grey*

            For my own office, I have one of those little plastic signs that hangs on a hook. It says “Will Return” and has a clock face with movable hands. No wasted paper and people know exactly how long they might have to wait.

  125. Shayland*

    There were seven to eight gun shots a block from our office today. We’re not in the best area of the city. It was really scary and I was outside at the time, and threw myself behind a dumpster in case the shooter came down closer.

    2. Jean*

      Yesterday or today doesn’t matter. It’s still scary. Can you talk to security or change your routine to feel more safe?

    3. Rebecca*

      I am sorry you had to deal with this! My old job was in a deteriorating part of town, and one day while I was out for a walk, there was a fatal shooting a block away from where I was walking at the time. I never saw so many police officers respond so quickly. It is a scary thing.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Buddy system.

      If you can’t do a buddy system, at least tell someone you are stepping outside for a moment.

      I am sorry this happened to you and I am glad you are okay.

  126. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

    My office is hiring for the first time since I was hired. At least two people I know are bombarding me with questions about the position and hiring process and one is bothering my boss as well. Don’t people realize this isn’t how you get a job? Especially when you know someone who works there?

    1. Gay Socialist Witch*

      No, people don’t realize this isn’t how you get a job.

      You should turn them into beavers.

  128. Tala*

    I read a lot about people who make the jump from corporate to not-for-profit and the warm fuzzies they get from now doing meaningful work and feeling like their work makes a real difference. But google as I might I can’t find any success stories of people who hopped from non-profit to corporate. Have any of you folks done it and was it a hard sell? I’m trying to get back to corporate after a few years in non-profits and find that recruiters don’t seem to place value on experience gained in non-profits as much as they would the same role/job title from a corporate background. My skills are transferrable and I have good corporate experience, but I’m getting disheartened in my job hunt. I kinda feel they think I dropped out of the fast lane because I couldn’t handle it.

    Anyone wondering why I’m trying to get out of non-profits…the warm fuzzies only take you so far!

    1. Rincat*

      No advice, just sympathy! I’ve been working at universities for the past 10 years and I’m trying to get into corporate, and running into the same thing.

    2. it happens*

      I worked in the non-profit world for five years, realized that living paycheck-to-paycheck didn’t cut it for me and went back to school for a management degree. Most of the work I did for non-profits was financial/administrative and so pretty easy to sell as transferrable to the corporate world during the interview process.
      It worked out for me, but I cannot say that the financial/time commitment makes sense for most people.
      I will say that as a hiring manager I was very sensitive to ‘alternative’ backgrounds. Maybe look through your LinkedIn connections to find people who’ve made the leap and look at the companies they leaped to.
      Good luck – I still don’t understand how we live in a society that places entirely different monetary values on the exact same work (and low monetary values on some of the most important work.)

    3. NicoleK*

      My experience has been in non profits. When I tried to make a career change many years ago, I encountered the same issues you did. It seems that my transferable skills weren’t as valuable in the For Profit world.

    4. Tala*

      Thanks – it’s comforting though frustrating to know I’m not the only one. Guess I’ll keep going and keep my fingers crossed. Interestingly anyone I know (personally and via LinkedIn) who is in non-profits has stayed there. I’m a middle manager and most of my peers have come from a corporate background, but I’m the only one looking to go back!

  129. Okie Not From Muskogee*

    My boss was recently put on suspension, pending investigation, for a host of personal and job performance issues. I recently heard that he was being investigated for falsifying time cards. None of this is my problem, but I was confused about this last part, as my boss is an exempt employee. His position is one that could require after hours response, and he regularly fielded phone calls, responded to emails, etc. after hours. This is customary in our organization and within our profession. How does one falsify timecards in this situation, absent, like, going on vacation and claiming to be in the office?

    FWIW, other similarly situated employees used to keep an “off the books” leave log where they balanced their “OT” and leave to come out even. That was eliminated once we were absorbed by a larger company and payroll was centralized. Is that also verboten for exempt employees? (I’m hourly, no worries for me, ha!)

    If there’s a previously published post or other reference that would answer this, please let me know. Thanks!

    2. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

      Is it possible he falsified the timecards of non-exempt employees? I once had a boss who was terminated for changing an employees timecards because she continually went over 40 hours without being approved for overtime.

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I’ve actually wondered about this as well. My organization’s policy is for exempt employees to record 8 hours/day (40 hours/week) every day, whether it is billed to a project, PTO, or whatever. I’m exempt, and I work highly variable schedules, so I feel like I’m committing “time card fraud” every time I submit.

    5. LCL*

      Falsifying whose time cards? If one of his employees was doing something shady with their time, that person’s supervisor would be looked at to see if they were part of it. Generally.

    6. CAA*

      It’s probably that he said he was working when he wasn’t.

      He could also have been charging time to the wrong client or project. If he works on federal contracts, falsifying time cards is a crime. If he does software development, then recording time as new development instead of maintenance affects the company’s taxes.

    7. Rebecca*

      I wonder if he is being investigated for falsifying his non-exempt employees’ time cards, like my former manager did. She called it “summer hours”, but we were non-exempt and not government employees, and every week this violated the law. To be able to leave at noon on a Friday, for a little bit of a longer weekend, you had to work 4 extra hours the week before, or 44 hours, then get paid for 40 hours, then work 36 hours the next week, but get paid for 40 hours, using the time “banked” the week before. She also allowed this over multiple weeks and pay periods, and as you can guess, there were people who took advantage, took the time off, said they banked hours when they didn’t, etc.

      I told her this wasn’t legal, but she said she was being nice to us and that it was a perk. It really didn’t matter to her whether or not it was legal or not. She wanted the payroll to look even, and when I suggested working OT the week before, recording it and getting paid for the overtime, but fewer hours the next week (I worked it out on a spreadsheet so the time worked would equal a normal 80 hour time period money-wise), she scoffed at my idea and said she liked hers better.

      Whatever. I’m just glad I’m out of there. Oh, and my exit interview was interesting. HR was not happy to hear about this practice.

  130. Religion is a choice?*

    My boss told me yesterday that practicing my (non-Christian) religion is “a personal choice.” As in, “you are choosing to not be available to work on Saturdays” [so, implied, if I need you to do something on Saturday and you don’t/can’t, I won’t have a problem replacing you from your you-serve-at-the-pleasure position]. Discrimination based on my religion is totally illegal, but that doesn’t keep this conversation from being super distressing.

    1. Emi.*

      Ugh, that’s so obnoxious. I’m sorry! It probably wouldn’t help to point out that Jesus’s favorite Saturday activities were performing miracles and telling off Pharisees, and only one of those seems relevant here….

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      But if they need someone who can work on Saturdays, is it truly (in a legal sense) religious discrimination to fire you from an at-will position if you aren’t available on Saturdays? And does it matter if this schedule was implemented after you were hired, or was always in place?

      1. Natalie*

        It’s not a bright line, unfortunately. If you only had one employee, say, and your business was only open on weekends, that would be an undue hardship. But if you can cover schedule gaps with other employees, offering a scheduling accommodation is not considered an undue hardship:

        Examples of burdens on business that are more than minimal (or an “undue hardship”) include: violating a seniority system; causing a lack of necessary staffing; jeopardizing security or health; or costing the employer more than a minimal amount.

        If a schedule change would impose an undue hardship, the employer must allow co-workers to voluntarily substitute or swap shifts to accommodate the employee’s religious belief or practice. If an employee cannot be accommodated in his current position, transfer to a vacant position may be possible.

        Infrequent payment of overtime to employees who substitute shifts is not considered an undue hardship. Customer preference or co-worker disgruntlement does not justify denying a religious accommodation.

        2. Mazzy*

          I wish I would have known this. I was fired once for refusing to work on a Christian holiday in a big box store. It felt wrong, but I didn’t feel like fighting for a low pay job.

      2. Religion is a choice?*

        Her “need” for me to work on Saturdays is three-fold: 1. if her boss wants something that comes from me, she wants to be able to rely on me to help her respond right away. 2. I can’t get my job done in 6 days a week. (Seriously, I worked 60 hours M-F last week and am trying to work now on a memo due tomorrow morning.) 3. A holiday that my office is responsible for planning for, which last year was on Saturday, but usually isn’t.

  131. Searching*

    I was invited for a phone interview on Monday! I’m excited and nervous at the same time. In the year before I was laid off from OldJob, I had several interviews for internal positions, but I haven’t interviewed with a new company in ages and ages. And this organization is completely different than my old one – same general field, but non-profit, research-oriented as opposed to for-profit, commercial. I have a couple of people in my network that work at this organization who have very graciously referred me, and I hope it is more than just a courtesy interview.

  132. Elizabeth West*

    Blergh, it’s only 2 here and already there are over 900 posts!

    I have an interview next week for an admin job. On the high end of the listed salary (like their top figure), I can live; on the low end, not so much. It’s at a realtor’s office. I don’t know anything about real estate, but then I didn’t know anything about banking when I took my last job, either. If the job doesn’t seem too sucky and I get an offer on the high end, I’m taking it. This is too fecking scary and I don’t have time to sit here struggling and worrying for another year. I got shiz to do.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      You’re right; you need a job, and you need to be occupied and busy. This sounds like a wonderful opportunity! Good luck!

    5. Elizabeth West*

      It’s not the job I would like, but if the universe really is getting rid of stuff and giving me everything I ever wanted (LIKE I ASKED), then maybe I won’t be here that much longer anyway. *pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease* But I need to be working in the meantime.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        And you know what? They posted my old job today (I saw it when I was scrolling through an external site) with the changes implemented. Looking at the listing and going by what NewBoss said in our accommodation discussion with HR, I can definitely see where she wanted more analytical and budget work than I was capable of.

        So even if my attitude had been 100% Pollyanna, I don’t think I would have been able to do the job the way she wanted even with accommodations.

        I only hope I can find something that was as good a fit as it was before NewBoss and NewDepartment got hold of it. And that I can actually live on. :P #hiddendisabilitiessuck

        1. catsAreCool*

          People who change your job responsibilities like that without giving you any decent options also suck.

  133. Rejecting a Consultant Who Is a Friend*

    Quick question: I am in the process of hiring a consultant for a small, time-limited contract. My husband recommended a former colleague and sortof-friend, who ended up as a finalist but who we just decided not to use. Should I call him or email him to let him know?

    In general, I think it’s better to email rejections, so people can receive them in their own space and have time to structure a response (if needed). On the other hand, this is a friend(ly acquaintance), and it seems a bit callous to send an email and call it a day.

    1. Mints*

      I vote for a friendlier email but please don’t call. The candidate would have to process the rejection while on the phone with you, awkwardness for no reason

  135. The Other Dawn*

    Our company recently switched from business attire to business casual (banking is usually conservative, so this was a big win for employees!). We just got an email from the head of HR that says he’s happy with how well everyone is complying with the new dress code, but sees a couple things that need improvement. I was happy to see this: “leggings are not the same as pants and require added coverage.” I can think of a few people here this may apply to…

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      This is such a weird pet peeve (or dress code policy) to me. What, exactly, is the line between leggings and pants? How does one determine whether a pair of slim-fit, cotton-knit garments for your legs are pants or leggings? Why is the world so obsessed with the idea that “leggings are not pants?”

      (I don’t have a dog in this fight, as I am too insecure to wear leggings except as the equivalent of tights under skirts and dresses. But geez.)

      1. Charlotte Collins*

        To me, leggings are not pants the way a jumper (US usage) is not a dress. You need a little extra for full coverage.

      3. Lillian Styx*

        I actually had to think about this because there are a few things that I wear that I consider pants but could very easily appear to be leggings to someone else. So,
        -leggings tend to be of a thinner and stretchier material, which tends to cling more firmly to the anatomy of the wearer and/or become transparent-ish in the stretch (which I believe is the crux of the issue people have with them); whereas
        -pants tend to be seamed, and of a more rigid construction and with thicker material one is not likely to be able to see through. Pockets and flys also seem to help dispel the notion that there are [gasp] human body parts beneath the fabric.

      4. The Other Dawn*

        Honestly, I don’t really care much if people wear them or not as long as their shirt covers their ass and I can’t see their underwear. There are a few women here that don’t do that, hence ” a couple things need improvement.”

        To me, leggings are the spandex-type cottony things that can be rather thin (big in the 80s from what I remember of those years :) ). I have some pants that seem like leggings, but they’re thick and they have pockets, button and a zipper. I wouldn’t call them leggings, but others might. I always wear a shirt that’s long enough to cover my butt. I still walk around paranoid, though, that someone will deem them to be inappropriate.

  136. Wiley Coyote Suuuuuuper Genius*

    I’ve been at my new job for a little under a year and everything is pretty fantastic. My only issue is that while everyone here is extremely friendly, there are about 3 people who keep touching me. If they walk by me they will put their hand on my shoulder or if I have a conversation with them, one will touch my shoulder after every sentence he makes. I intensely dislike being touched and move away every time they do it but all they do is comment that I’m being weird and do it again the next time I talk to them. In the past, when coworkers touch me I just ask them not to but I was informed by several people at my last job that I was being rude. I’m female and 24 and most of my coworkers are male if that matters.

    Is there any way to tactfully stop people from just casually touching me?

    1. Dawn*

      THIS IS HARASSMENT.

      This is not casual touching. They know goddamned well what they’re doing.

      This is not OK.

      You are NOT weird, they are gaslighting you.

      Escalate. Escalate, escalate, escalate. “Fergus, stop touching me!” “Oh lord Wiley you’re so weird” “No, Fergus, I do not want you to touch me.” Keep saying it. Escalate if you need to. If they don’t take the hint, go to HR. Tell your boss. Start saying “Don’t touch me” louder. Make a scene over it- “Fergus, I have asked you over and over not to touch me! What part of ‘do not touch me’ don’t you understand?”

      Ask yourself if they’d be doing this behavior if you were a 24 year old man and not a woman? Probably not!

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Ugh. They’re doing it because you’re young and female, and they’re male and older than you. It needs to stop.

      Next time someone touches you, back away and say “Please don’t touch me” with a straight face, and look them in the eye.

      1. Dawn*

        I say leave out the please. Women are conditioned to be “peacemakers”, to be gentle about stuff, to soften their language with “Please” and “If it’s ok with you…” and “I’d rather not…” You want Cold Hard Steel in your voice when you say “Fergus, get your hand off of my shoulder”.

    3. Dawn*

      They’re not “casually touching you”- they’re repeatedly laying hands on your body after you’ve asked them to stop, and they’re gaslighting you by saying you’re “weird” for asking them to stop touching you.

      Escalate. Get mean. Get loud if you have to- make a scene. Talk to your boss, talk to HR if they don’t stop. Make it awkward, make it uncomfortable for them. Keep repeating yourself- “Don’t touch me.” “Wiley, you’re so weird! It’s no big deal!” “Fergus, I said don’t touch me!” “Oh Wiley, whatever (goes to touch you)” “(loud enough for everyone to hear) FERGUS, I SAID DO NOT TOUCH ME! WHAT PART OF THAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND???”

      They know what they’re doing. They know you don’t like it, and yet they continue. That’s never, ever OK.

    4. Aurion*

      Wait, people at your last job told you it’s rude to not want to be touched? Your current workers say you’re weird to want your personal space? Your coworkers in both these jobs are glassbowls.

      You are perfectly in the right, and frankly, not touching people should be the default! Stop worrying about “tactfully” informing people you don’t want to be touched. They’ve steamrolled past your repeated discomfort and you don’t need to worry about their “hurt feelings” (sarcasm fully intended).

      “Don’t touch me.” Be loud. Keep your voice cold and hard, and look them right in the eye. If they persist, take it up the chain. This is not okay at all.

    5. Wiley Coyote Suuuuuuuper Genius*

      Thank you all for the advice. It’s odd I was reluctant to be adamant about my bubble at work since I am quite adamant in personal life but that’s mainly because even friends tell me it’s odd to not want to be touched. Also yes, in my last 2 jobs my coworkers acted like I was murdering kittens when I asked them not to touch me and informed me I was being super rude.

      I think knowing it’s fine to push back on the touching will help me a lot in actually doing it…

      1. Natalie*

        Side-eye to your friends, for whatever it’s worth. Some people are touchier than others, some people are not touchy at all.

        “I intensely dislike being touched and move away every time they do it but all they do is comment that I’m being weird and do it again the next time I talk to them.”

        One thing that helps with comments like the above is not getting sidetracked with whether or not your preference is weird or not. Don’t engage in that, it doesn’t remotely matter:

        “Oh, Wiley, it’s so weird that this bothers you.”

        “Hmmm, perhaps. Regardless, I need you to stop touching me.”

        And really, silly as it might seem – PRACTICE. Practice the firm, direct tone your going for, practice looking someone in the eye. It really does help.

      2. catsAreCool*

        I think it’s weird that so many people that you know are thinking it’s weird that you don’t like to be touched. Not everyone likes to be touched.

      3. Observer*

        You need to find new friends. Some people are more “touchy” than others. Even if you are on the more extreme end of “don’t touch”ness, that’s a really out of line response.

    7. Observer*

      No, there is not. But, that’s not something you should worry about, in this particular case.

      TELL people directly “Please don’t touch me. Thank you!” Id they tell you that you are being “weird” your response is “Nevertheless, please do not touch me.” In fact, no matter what they tell you, that should be your response.

      If someone has the gall to tell you that you are being rude tell them that touching someone without their permission is rather more rude.

      Tell each person. If it happens again point out that you have explicitly asked not to be touched. If it happens a third time go to HR and tell them that you have explicitly asked that your coworkers not to touch you and that they nevertheless continue to do this. If your HR is remotely competent, they will put a stop to this pretty quickly.

  137. KellyK*

    Is there a good way to ask a coworker to please stop talking about pressuring her daughter-in-law to have kids? She sits behind me, and she’s mentioned a couple times how much she wants grandkids and how her DIL is too preoccupied with everything that can go wrong and should just have kids already.

    This is unpleasantly distracting for me because I have infertility, and my mother-in-law pressured me about kids for a while. It stopped once I told her, but I also felt like I shouldn’t have to go into my medical “stuff” to get her to back off. So, I kind of empathize with the DIL.

    I don’t really want to change Coworker’s mind on this. I just want her not to go on about it, while sitting right next to me, and I’m trying to figure out if that’s a reasonable thing to ask.

    1. Adlib*

      I think it’s totally reasonable. It’s definitely not work-related anyway so you could say something. While I don’t have any scripts for you, I think it’s fine to ask.

    2. LadyKelvin*

      I usually tense up slightly exaggeratedly and say “Could you please not touch me? It makes me really uncomfortable.” If they are reasonable people, they’ll stop the first time. If they are forgetful, they might need a few reminders. If they insist on invading your personal space repeatedly after you asking them not to, I’d go to HR. If they insist on an explanation just tell them that you don’t like being touched by people you aren’t related to.

    3. not my usual alias*

      “You know, my MIL did the same thing to me that you’re doing to your DIL, and it was so stressful for me that it honestly stresses me out to hear you discussing it.”

      1. Observer*

        Way too much info here, given that the co-worker can’t be trusted to respect boundaries. Don’t give her “permission” to stick her nose where it doesn’t belong.

    4. Observer*

      Gah. I have 6 kids, and this makes my stomach churn.

      “Co-worker, family planning is intensely personal, and arguments about your family’s decisions are not really something we should be hearing. It’s terribly distracting.”

      1. KellyK*

        I think this is just about what I want. Maybe a little too formal for our office, but “That’s more personal than I’m comfortable hearing, and it’s distracting me,” has definite merit. Thank you!

    1. Chriama*

      Absolutely not weird if an HR person uses it. What, because of your job title you’re suddenly free from life upsets, financial worries or sickness or death of loved ones? I think the usefulness really depends on what your needs are and what the EAP offers. I know I looked into mine a little while ago for counselling and ended up feeling like it was too much effort for not enough support. But that could just be the anxiety talking.

    2. Liz*

      My mum’s a psychologist – she sees some HR/management people to help work through dealing with work stuff, like professional development stuff.

      My thoughts, 1. go see someone if you’ve thinking about it – speaking to someone who doesn’t “know” you or have any stakes in your life can be really really helpful. 2. if you’re worried about people thinking oh you have a mental illness say it’s for professional development. My mum is a work and organisational psych (in australia) who is the EAP provider for multiple businesses and also a clinical psych. No one but you needs to know why you are there.

      I worked as a receptionist at her office for a few years and after a few sessions, people really raved about how helpful they found sessions.

      1. Liz*

        Oh, and EAP’s aren’t just psychs, they can have other benefits. Your employer offers these services because they want you to be the best you can be. Would be very stupid to offer services but penalise people for accessing them.

  139. Anne*

    This is somewhat of a spin off from an earlier comment, but I think merits its own discussion. In a business casual environment, are leggings and a long tunic style top (a shirt, not a dress, but long enough to cover butt) appropriate?

    For reference, my department is about 25% female and I’m a senior analyst eventually hoping to move upward to an AVP. I’m also on maternity leave, 9 weeks postpartum and still about 30 lbs over my prepregnancy weight. My nice slacks and professional looking clothes don’t fit right now and I go back to work in three weeks.

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Eh, I don’t think that would be very professional, unless your workplace leans more toward the “casual” side of business casual.

    3. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

      Honestly?

      I’d pass on the look if it’s an extreme departure from what you wore pre-pregnancy. It’s an unfair fact that co-workers or bosses are often looking at a new mom (mom, not parent, mom) for signals if she’s back in the game or if her priorities have changed. Changing your wardrobe into something casual is a visual that You’re Different Now. It feeds worry or gossip.

      Black or neutral color pants, whatever top, and black or neutral color jacket could get you thru to start off with, maybe two sets with some extra tops. I wear very comfortable clothes that are also “professional”, they exist.

      Now, if you don’t care about the perception, do what you want!

      1. Anne*

        Ah, that’s an interesting perspective. I’m not too concerned about that perception, mostly because this is my second and I feel like I already proved myself as an employee and a mom. But last time I returned to work to a boss I’d worked under for several years who had her third child right after I had my son, and this time I’m returning to a new male boss that I don’t know very well. So that’s a good thing to keep in mind.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      IMHO, for your specific case, I would say no. If you wore a dress, okay, and maybe if the shirt was past mid-thigh with a belt and accessories to dress it up. It’s mostly your career goals that have me saying no.

      Leggings weren’t in when I had my kids, so it was never an issue, but what I did was buy a couple low-cost pairs of dress pants at Target in black and khaki. I just alternated those pairs until my regular pants fit.

    5. Joanna*

      Hard to tell. I could probably get away with it in my office where there’s a quite lax take on business casual but other offices you couldn’t. Pay attention to what other people are wearing. You should probably be more careful given you’re going for a promotion. Dress for the job you want, not the one you have.

    6. No Name Yet*

      FWIW, I wore my maternity pants for awhile after I went back to work (@ 10 weeks postpartum). It was fall, so the stretchy waistband was covered by long shirts/sweaters. Not sure if those would still be an option for you?

      1. Anne*

        I have a couple of pairs that I may wear, I need to see how they fit now. By the end of my pregnancy my hips were too wide for most of my pants and I was wearing the same two ugly pairs and a couple of dresses. I tried on a pair of maternity jeans a few weeks ago and got depressed when they were still really tight so I haven’t tried on any other maternity pants since then.

  140. Adlib*

    Alison,
    Thanks again for that wonderful interview guide! My interview went very well last week, and the recruiter I am going through said they loved my questions! (Yes, I asked the magic question.) I just had my second phone interview, and while it was more challenging than the first, I was definitely more confident after having prepared and familiarized myself with the role using your guide!

  141. Robot Cowboy*

    Some time reader, First-ish time Job hunter here looking for advice. I’m currently working as a big programmer fish at a small-ish teapot automation firm. I’ve finally decided to move on, preferably to another state, though I know that’s harder. At any rate, my initial launch into the professional world was a sort of stumble-trip-stride confidently along like nothing happened, plus my company is fairly non-standard with job titles. So I’m trying to figure out the best way to frame my work history. Here it is with more details than I’d likely put on my resume:
    (Mostly) Finish undergrad, save for 1 stupid writing class.
    (1 year) Job A, former summer/winter programming job not related to degree
    (1 year) Grad student at respected private Uni. Left because personal issues and also “resetting” my professional launch not a good reason for grad school. Advisor commented I was very intelligent, had good things ahead of me, just not as a research grad student.
    (2 years) Land job at current employer through personal contact. Started as “Assistant Project Manager” because all programmers are PMs and all PMs are programmers.
    (7 years) After proving I wasn’t PM material, I’m the (only) staff programmer for 7 years without a title change despite everyone asking my opinion on design and feasibility of all the most complex teapot automation project.

    So I’ve got two problems I’m still working out:
    1. How do I present those first two awkward years? Do I briefly include them and assume 9 years of success at the same company overshadows them? Leave them as single lines to show a complete work history but no details since they’re not super relevant?
    2. How do I deal with 7 years in the “same” position at a company? I’ve pretty much maxed out my level of respect and responsibilities without moving back into PMing, which might not work out well still.

    On a more general note, I’ve got the recommended summary at the top of my resume, but it’s a 80 word paragraph as densely packed with my relevant skills and achievements as english will allow. Do I need to bulletize this instead? How does that work without looking like an extra “skills” section atop my resume?

    1. CAA*

      You are overthinking the first two years. You have 9 years of continuous work experience, so there’s no need to worry about a long-ago gap or short term job. The only reason to put it on there is to demonstrate that you have worked at a second employer. Try something like this:

      Summary
      ————
      3 sentences max. No keyword list of skills, put those under the work experience.

      Current Company Name
      ——————–
      month/2009 to present — Staff Programmer
      – collaborated with PMs on design and feasibility of all the most complex teapot automation project
      – developed xxx to do yyy
      – …
      – technologies: a, b, c, … (don’t list everything you’ve ever touched here, keep it to two lines at most.)
      month/2007 to month 2008 – Project Manager
      – bullets about accomplishments

      Company A
      ————–
      dates — title
      – very brief details
      – technologies: a, b, c, …

      Education
      ————-
      University / Degree – year
      Additional graduate courses in subject x

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      Not an answer to the question you actually asked, but there are two major teapot automation firms in the Midwest that are always willing to pay relocation in order to attract qualified programmers to their un-sexy small Metro area. So assuming you’re not looking to move to a Coast, that won’t be the real challenge.

      The real challenge is it’s been a bad year for industrial automation. (Something to do with the low oil prices, they try to explain) They are still hiring (at least my husband’s company is- the other has announced layoffs, but that’s not always in engineering/programming) but the available jobs aren’t as plentiful as they have been.

      I don’t think I’d note the title change between years 1-2 and years 3-9 at all. I would note start date and current title. Especially since you’re not wanting to move into project management. Your company is not the only one (by far!) who only offer title changes or movement to engineers/programmers through project management, so I don’t think that is going to be the big red flag you fear. And companies will love that you stayed put for 9 years on a row, as long as your skills are current and relevant to what everyone else is using.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        I just verified with my husband, who has been the main one doing the interviewing/hiring for his team, that not listing the PM years is the thing to do. He says that without the explanation, the seeming demotion would be a huge red flag and your resume would end up in the circular file. He’s fine with you only listing your current title.

        He says the 9 years in one position would be a caution, but not something he’d discard your application over. He knows not everyone is ambitious, and that doesn’t mean you aren’t a good programmer.

        So that’s straight from someone in the industry who might feasibly interview you IRL one day.

        1. Robot Cowboy*

          Thanks for the experience outline, that’ll help me organize things there a bit better.

          Ambition is debatable. Like I said, I’ve gone from being the clever “kid” to the guy that’s consulted on the feasibility of most of the complex projects, plus I’m running a couple of r&d projects on the side. If I was anywhere else, I’m assuming is be a senior programmer or something close. My current company just has a really flat structure. PMing might be something i look at in the future, it just wasn’t something i was ready to jump immediately into with no experience. So we came to the staff programmer accommodation, and I’ve had plenty of crazy programming to keep me busy since. I’m pretty confident in my skills, just need to figure out how to convey that I’ve made robots do things the robot’s app engineer didn’t know was possible.

          Also, yes, were hit by the oil crash as well. And I’m currently Gulf adjacent, and we’re looking to move north ish. Looking for a better climate in multiple senses.

          1. Jessesgirl72*

            Cost of living is reasonable in Milwaukee and there are 4 seasons, as long as you can adjust to spring not arriving until April/May. You can figure out the rest, since the companies here control a lot of the market. But there are jobs available.

  142. Chriama*

    Wondering if I should be bothered by this or just let it go.

    This week I’ve been feeling really sick, but I didn’t feel like I could call in sick because I had so many meetings. They’re pretty critical, and there isn’t anyone I can send in my place because I’ve been handling these projects solo and my backups don’t have the background to receive or present the right information. So my plan was to work from home in the morning and try and get through all my meetings as fast as possible and then log off early. The first day I sent a notice saying I was working from home and would be offline in the afternoon. I didn’t get to log off early, too much work came up. So the next day I sent another email saying I would be doing the same thing. My boss replied saying she hadn’t been notified that I wouldn’t be working afternoons this week. Fair enough, I sent 2 emails 2 days in a row and didn’t clarify that it’s because I was sick, so it was messing with her expectations for coverage. So I responded saying I’m just sick and trying to get some time off to feel better but hadn’t gotten to do that yet because of various projects. Her response was “that’s fine, please try to let me know as soon as possible in the future.” I sent both emails in the morning so it’s not like I was AWOL all day or something.

    I’m trying to understand how I should have handled the notification better. Should I have mentioned I was off because I was sick in the afternoons? I didn’t want to seem like I was trolling for sympathy but maybe that would have been better than a basically unexplained absence. Or when I realized on the first day that I wouldn’t get to log off early, should I have let her know that I would be trying again the next day? I just kind of felt like going into an elaborate explanation of how I was so sick but had so much work I couldn’t even take a full day off would make me seem like one of those obnoxious workplace martyrs. Or maybe I should have sent her a private explanation and the general one to the rest of my coworkers? I just kind of feel frustrated because this is the second time I’ve worked through being sick and I’m grumpy about not being able to take enough time off to recover (and I think the stress is making me more prone to being sick, we’re in our busy season and also understaffed), and I don’t like feeling recriminated for basically going above and beyond. But at the same time I understand that as a manager unexplained last-minute absences are tough to schedule around, and I know this week we’re having coverage issues with multiple people unexpectedly out at the same time (some sick, some vacation). So I want to know the best non-whiny way to keep her up to date in the future without making it seem like I’m exaggerating or trolling for sympathy.

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Aww, I’m sorry you’re under so much stress while feeling so ill! I really hope you feel better soon.

      I can see why your boss was concerned. It probably would have been best to loop her in that you weren’t feeling well, and that you wanted to take it easy by working from home as much as possible. Once she was made aware of the situation, you could have sent out that email and it would have been fine– not everyone needs to know why you’re out, but your boss really does.

      Saying that you’re sick isn’t trolling for sympathy! It’s a part of life. We all get sick.

    2. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

      Yeah, what Lemon Zinger said.

      I think it’s a misunderstanding. So if I’m your boss, I’d be like “what?” when I got those emails. Things are busy, I don’t remember agreeing to afternoons off this week, what’s going on . And I might write something snappy back if there was a lot going on because the last thing I need is people making alternate schedules when I need to be able to anticipate who is where when and I don’t like being caught off guard.

      If I had the context, on the other hand, I would have been supportive and appreciative of what you were pulling off while not feeling well. I would never take it as trolling for sympathy.

      So next time, try it the other way around. “Jane, listen, I’m battling a big bug. I can’t afford to miss these meetings so I’ll hit them, and then I’ll sign off and try to get some rest in the afternoon. How’s that sound?” She’ll probably send you a cake.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      “I am sick. I won’t be in this afternoon [today, whatever fits].

      That is no where near trolling for sympathy, nor is it an exaggeration at all. It’s a statement of fact, that is all.
      If you feel like you have lost your gauge to measure how you sound, a good rule of thumb is the less words the better. Stick to statements of fact.

      Likewise, if someone had an accident on the way to work. “I had an accident. I won’t be in today.” Here it would be good to say that you are basically okay, if you are basically okay. But again it is not pity seeking nor is it exaggerating. People will act concerned if you say you are sick or had an accident. If you feel you need to say something further you can say, “Some good rest will fix this right up.” That way they know that you are okay overall.

  143. Ann O'Nemity*

    I’m super annoyed that my company still hasn’t released specifics on the open enrollment for insurance benefits. My husband’s open enrollment closed this week, so we didn’t even have a chance to compare the options before making a decision. What’s a normal timeline for this stuff?

    1. Rincat*

      I’m assuming it varies widely. My university does open enrollment right before the start of the fiscal year, which for them September 1, so open enrollment is August. My husband’s company does it in late December.

    2. Not Karen*

      Did you tell them your husband’s open enrollment was closing already and ask to see the info early to compare? At my employer they let employees do this.

        1. Sophie Winston*

          You can change your selections during either open enrollment period. Your open enrollment period is a qualifying reason to change his benefit selections and vice versa.

  144. Flexible!*

    I’m in talks with a hiring manager in another department at my university about a job. I’d really like to work in his department, but it would mean giving up my telecommuting. I’m fine with this, but I’d still like to have flexibility with my start and end time. I work a pretty standard schedule of about 7:30-4pm every day, but I’d like to retain the flexibility I have where if I need to come in a little later, I can skip lunch, or just stay late, or whatever.

    However, I’m unsure how to ask about this without seeming like a flake! To me it sounds like “I don’t want to be on time or stay all day.” That’s not how I am at all, I just like to have that freedom to be trusted to get my 40 hours in, and manage my time appropriately. Is there a good way to ask about that, or is it something I just need to wait on until after 6-12 months of working there?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      “One aspect of my current job is a flexible schedule and the ability to work from home, where I am able to focus more on projects like XXX. What do you envision the schedule of this position looking like? Are you open to the person in this role occasionally telecommuting?”

  145. smokey*

    I have an is-this-normal question. For our yearly reviews, our manager gives us a “grade” from 1-5. Then HR (who doesn’t even have a rep in our office) changes the grades. They just kind of level them out, I suspect to keep merit raises to a minimum. So, officially, on record, we all do an average job and get average pay increases and can’t really do anything about it. Is that normal?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      That’s really strange. I’ve never heard of that before, and I don’t like it; your boss knows you best, so his/her evaluation would be the most accurate. HR shouldn’t have anything to do with it.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      We have a process where grades get changed, but it’s not by HR. They (mgmt) force a normal distribution.

      They do that early, though, and you don’t know what your original grade was. . .only that you’re a “B” now.

    3. Joanna*

      Might be worth asking calmly about. There could be a non-dramatic explanation like your managers use a completely different ranking system to the official HR one so the rankings have to be converted

  146. TinyPJM*

    Please.

    Please do not send me a 20,000 page document to review and highlight by Tuesday.

    I don’t want this. No one wants this.

    1. Aurion*

      20,000 pages?! 20,000 words would be painful already, but pages?!?! D: D: D:

      Is it possible to tell your boss and/or the sender “nope, this ain’t possible”?

  147. Christine*

    Does answering “Yes” to:

    Federal law requires employers to provide reasonable accommodation to qualified individuals with disabilities. Please tell us if you require accommodation to apply for a job or to perform your job. Examples of reasonable accommodation include making a change to the application process or work procedures, providing documents in an alternate format, using a sign language interpreter, or using specialized equipment.
    Please check one of the boxes below: Voluntary Self Identification of Disability: Yes, I have a disability (or previously had a disability) on your job application hurt your chances?

      1. Christine*

        I’m afraid that they will view it as an expense to accommodate from the get go when a new person comes in.

      1. Natalie*

        Sure, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen all the time. And what recourse is available is difficult and time consuming to obtain.

      2. Joanna*

        Problem is, it’s not always even a matter of conscious discrimination. Seeing that on your application could negatively colour a recruiters feelings about someone without the recruiter being aware of why exactly that candidate doesn’t appeal to them

      3. Temperance*

        That’s absolutely true, but I still wouldn’t necessarily take that chance unless I had a visible disability.

    3. H.C.*

      the fine print reader in me honed in on “voluntary” so you don’t have to disclose your current/previous disability if you feel it’ll hurt your chances of getting the job.

      Per the Department of Labor, you can wait until you’re actually employed to disclose (or even not disclose at all). It depends on your situation & what (if any) accommodations you need.

      More on that here
      https://www.dol.gov/odep/pubs/fact/ydw.htm

    4. it happens*

      On the other hand, it could be that the company is trying to make sure that they have a diverse applicant pool…

  148. Prof Here*

    To any other professors:

    Do you ever have a student disagree with your grading by saying they’ve spoken with another professor about their assignment and claims that other professor thinks you are in the wrong for how you assessed that student’s work?

    In my teaching career I have had students say this. Are these students lying or are other professors being unprofessional?

    1. katamia*

      I’ve never had this happen to me (teacher, not professor), but I think either option is possible. Some students might be lying (although it would be a really easy lie to disprove), but I could also see another professor who has different standards than you do rating an assignment more highly, especially since a student may have (inadvertently or on purpose) implied that the purpose of the assignment was X when it was really Y.

    2. BRR*

      Consulted with my husband who has a PhD and is an aspiring academic and he said students could easily be lying and the other professors are being unprofessional. They should say to the student that they trust your grading.

    3. Future Analyst*

      I could see another professor saying “I’m not sure that I would have graded it the same,” meaning they have different standards or would look at different criteria, but intentionally NOT saying that you were wrong to grade how you did… in that case, the student is just hearing what they want to hear.

      Regardless, would you change how you grade based on what a colleague said? If so, ask for input/advice. If not, ignore the students, or say “you’re welcome to take professor X’s class next semester.”

    4. Nanc*

      Dear Job Applicants,

      I will forgive many things on a resume and cover letter, but I will not forgive the use of Imprint MT Shadow font. Arial 10 may be boring, but it’s your friend!

      Sincerely,

      Nanc

    5. self employed*

      I’d doubt they were lying, depending on the student, but the other prof is definitely unprofessional. More likely, it’s their mom who is a high school English teacher looking at their paper.

    6. Yo Teach!*

      It could also be possible that a student is bringing their work to another professor and asking them for feedback without letting them know that they’re doing it to fight the grade they’ve already received. Where I work I see a lot of professors offer feedback, and it goes without saying that they’re offering help for professional development rather than grade-fighting. It would be so uncommon/odd that I don’t think any professor would think to even ask, ‘are you doing this to challenge a grade?’

    7. bon-bons for all!*

      Both are possible, but IME, students can be magical thinkers. What professor has the time or inclination to really read and grade an assignment for another professor? More likely, student says, “Prof Here makes us cite the textbook in our papers.” And Other Professor says, “I don’t need that for my papers. I don’t take points off for that.” The student then says to you, “Professor Other says you shouldn’t take points off for citing.”

      I also aim to be as transparent as possible when grading: I give out the rubric with the assignment, and encourage students to meet with me if they have questions about grading.

      2. AnotherTeacher*

        +1 for magical thinking

        Students have asked me about other teachers’ comments/grading, and I’m careful to point out that they should discuss the issue with their teacher and that assignment standards vary and they need to follow whatever is appropriate for the other class. But, I know I can’t control where they go with that. I’ve also been in the middle of those conversations with faculty and students. I think it’s rare that anyone is being intentionally deceptive or difficult.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Tell them to go take that prof’s class instead.
      sigh.

      Not a prof, but from what I have seen in schools, I think you can say something like, “That is fine for Prof Smith, but this is not Prof Smith’s class.”

      Some of my profs would say, “Using what you have learned in class so far, present your argument for a better grade. Telling me that Prof Smith would do X is not a persuasive argument.”

  149. animaniactoo*

    Heh. My sister just found out she’s getting a promotion that’s not due to be announced for a few weeks. They realized they had to tell her early because she has so much access to company info that the HR person looked up and asked her manager “I started prepping the info in the system – is she likely to find out accidentally from a report somewhere when I do this?” Answer: Yes.

  150. Anon4This*

    I have a disability that’s become more of an issue in recent years. In my last job, I wasn’t open about it. That caused a lot of different issues. So I’ve decided to be upfront about it in my next job.

    Now I’m job searching. It’s frustrating. My options are limited, and I have to navigate coming out of the disability closet on top of that.

    There’s definitely a silver lining. I think that if I can get through this, it will get easier, and there will be a positive side to it all as well.

    But right now, it’s overwhelming.

    I know this is a fairly common experience. It would be great to hear from anyone who’s been there or knows someone who has.

  151. Anonyby*

    Ugh. I have an ad to create (I make a new one on a monthly basis for an internal client). I used to enjoy making it, but the last few months not so much. There’s a lot of info that goes into it, and the list of data keeps getting longer. I’ve spoken to the client but there’s nothing to be done. I just have to try to cram it all in, knowing that while I’m working on a full-size page, the ad itself will be printed much smaller. It’s just so annoying! (Not to mention the program I use to create it is doing things that annoy me.)

    1. Joanna*

      Perhaps you could show your client/boss examples of ads from companies that cram a similar amount in so they can see why those ads don’t quite work?

  152. an anon is an anon*

    This is probably in too late to get an answer, but I had a juror summons for Monday. I just called and they said I don’t have to show up, but I’m on call for the next 15 business days.

    My question is, I’m at my breaking point with my job. Would it look really bad if I told my manager I don’t have jury duty but am taking a sick day? I’m at the point where even spending a day at jury duty would be preferable to a day in the office and the last sick day I took to have cavities filled was better than being in the office. I was actually looking forward to duty if only because it means I don’t have to deal with work for a day.

    1. Joanna*

      I suggest being really careful about dubious sick days. If anyone at work has any suspicions that you’re not actually sick, you risk not being taken seriously next time you are actually really sick.

      1. an anon is an anon*

        I rarely get physically sick and I figure mental health days are just as good a reason to take a sick day as being physically sick. My concern was more if it looks bad to take it on the day I wasn’t chosen for jury duty since you’re supposed to report to work when you’re not called.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Aw, I’m sorry. I think it’s fair for you to take a day off. Whether you blame jury duty or being sick, it’s up to you.

    3. Rebecca*

      I’d be honest. Even my crappy ex-job would pay you for an 8 hour day if you were called to jury duty, and if the trials were half days, and you could come to work either in the morning or afternoon, they paid for the time out of the office so you could do your civic duty.

      I’m admitting I’m superstitious about lying about sick time. I did that once, to go have fun with friends, ended up with a wicked bad sore throat, and had to go to work sick for the rest of the week. Never did it again.

    4. No Name Yet*

      Maybe go to work on Monday but plan to take another day next week (probably not Friday) as a mental health sick day?

  153. Bad Job Motivation?*

    My boss sucks and I’m looking for a new job, but it could be awhile. How do I stay motivated in my current job/keep myself from just quitting in a rage?

    My boss is violating safety regulations (par for the course with him, he cuts a lot of corners that put people at risk) and is trying to fire our top performer for voicing his concerns. Also trying to fire another employee for trumped-up reasons. We’re already short-staffed and neither of them are going to fight it because they, like everyone else at this place, have been contemplating quitting for the past 6+ months and now they’ll be able to collect unemployment.

    Every day I dread coming in to work because maybe this will be the day it all goes down. I won’t be implicated once the regulatory violations catch up with us, but only because I document everything. I WILL be involved if I don’t get a new job before it happens (and maybe even if I do, depending on how bad it gets).

    Honestly, I’d quit now if I wasn’t speedily advancing along my desired career path and if this company wasn’t resume gold. I have no idea why, but it will get me in the door anywhere and in a few weeks of searching I have multiple interviews lined up for jobs that pay twice as much and ordinarily require more experience.

    The hiring process in this industry can take awhile, and I’m not gonna count on having a new job until spring. I’m guaranteed a promotion at my current company by the end of January and with that I can probably get something even better somewhere else, so I’m kind of considering holding off on more applications until then. But in the meantime I’m not sure how to survive. I contemplate quitting on the spot at least twice a week.

    My job requires me to be self-motivated and create my own projects. I can’t just keep my head down, do the bare minimum and avoid my boss if I want to actually do a good job (I have to straight-up order my boss around, actually). And it would bother me not to do a good job, but I just hate it so much…

    Help?

    1. Joanna*

      You could keep reminding yourself that this job is an investment that will pay off in better things in the future, and that each day you go to work and do a good job is putting a bit more in that investment fund.

      It also might help to look at it as a learning experience in how not to run a business and manage people. I think I’ve learned more about such things from the negative example of bad managers than the positive example of good managers.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      If you can get a promotion at this company then in all likelihood you can get one at the next company, too. From the sounds of it you should take the quickest path out of there.

      Additionally, no job is worth jail time. If you think you could end up facing charges because of the fools around you then leave ASAP.

      Toxic places do this, they distort our sense of what is important and what is not. Over the weekend, use the time away from work to decide what you value most. Build a plan that matches what you actually value. If you try to salvage everything you can out of this situation you may end up with nothing. Now is your chance to chose what parts you would like to salvage and be successful in salvaging those parts. Later will not look as good as it does now.

  154. Newish Reader*

    I’m so excited that we have a new person starting in our office on Monday – which means I can finally share the workload! I’ve been doing the equivalent of two jobs, plus heading up the hiring committee for this new position, and it’s been exhausting. But once I get this new hire up to speed, I can go back to just one job and not have to work weekends to keep up with the workload (I’m exempt, so no overtime pay for the extra hours – boo).

  155. Bucky Badger*

    First time poster, need some advice. For background, I am on a team of 4 (manager and 3 direct reports, with me being one of the direct reports). I am intensely introverted, while the rest of the team is very extroverted. One team member tends to dominate the conversation, and seldom asks others for their thoughts. As the holidays are here, it is time for end of year holiday lunches – one with our immediate team next week, and one with our whole division the following week. The introvert in me is dreading these lunches like you will not believe. And to top it off, we had just received our year end rankings, and I received a lower rating for the first time ever (mixed), because our company has the ranking system, and our new leader follows it to a T, and I rank lower than the rest of my team. So admittedly, my attitude towards work lately is not the best. Any suggestions for surviving the next couple of weeks?

    1. KiteFlier*

      I’m an introvert as well and while I dread work social functions – they’re never nearly as bad as I think they will be. You can get through it!

      As for the ranking – can you put an action plan together for yourself as how you can get a higher ranking? You can review it with your manager and get their input as well. Having a plan and a checklist always makes me feel better.

  156. Anon This Time*

    I got turned down for a temp to perm job opportunity today because they wanted someone to start right away and I have jury duty next week. The worst part is that there is a good chance that I won’t even have to report, but since I couldn’t guarantee availability they had to go with someone else. Aaaaarrrrgghhh!!!

    1. zora*

      Oh no!!! Ugh, that is really frustrating, I’m sorry. It’s too late for this now, I suppose, but could you have postponed jury duty? In my county they let us postpone once per year.

      But I’m really sorry that happened, I hope you find an even better opportunity soon!

    2. all aboard the anon train*

      If you’re in the US, I’d check your state laws. In my state, it’s illegal to deny you a job, fire you, or forbid you from taking time off/postponing jury duty to your day off/etc. since jury duty is mandatory.

      Though, I’d be wary of a company that didn’t offer you a job because you had jury duty. That’s pretty sketchy.

      1. zora*

        Well, I think it must be different for temp jobs. I mean, if a workplace is hiring a temp to cover reception for one day, and they also have jury duty on that day, obviously they can’t do that job.

        I’m guessing that’s what happened here, the company desperately needed a body in the office on Monday for a business reason, so they couldn’t even wait one day for Anon This Time, since there was someone else available to start on Monday.

        1. all aboard the anon train*

          Anon This Time said it was temp to perm, meaning it was most likely more than one day. But regardless, it would still fall under the same law. A business in the US can’t penalize you for having jury duty, even if they desperately need you to work on that one day you’re called for jury duty.

          1. Anon This Time*

            It was supposed to be a temp assignment that lasted a few months while they restructured the department and made final decisions for permanent staffing. It had been a very small department with both (or all 3?) employees leaving. I never did get the whole story on if everyone left at the same time, or as each person left they felt the remaining person could handle the work until they were finally left with no one … as a permanent full time career job I would have had to have much more intense discussions about what that situation was and why everyone left.

            I knew going in that they wanted someone right away, but they also knew that I had the jury duty assignment before they interviewed me. There’s every possibility that they really didn’t think I was a good fit and they used the jury duty as an excuse so they didn’t have to feel bad about rejecting someone, who knows? (But that’s pretty dumb since an excuse like that could possibly come back to bite them in the butt!)

            I probably could have postponed the jury duty, but I think there are deadlines about when you have to have that request in. Since the response from the company (even if it had been an offer rather than the rejection) didn’t come in until after the courts closed on Friday evening I don’t think there would have been any way to make those changes before reporting to the job on Monday morning.

    3. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

      Bah.

      I’ll tell you what though, there are plenty of times that an initial temp doesn’t work out so make sure your agency knows you are available and eager should they need you the following week.

      Let’s think good thoughts about the other person failing!

  157. Worried About References*

    Can I ask companies I’m applying to to not contact a former manager?

    I have one ex-boss in my past who’s lied about me to screw me out of jobs. I gave notice after I got my current job and served out the notice period like usual. But I’m interviewing now, and I’ve had two companies just go silent on me after they said they’d be checking my references.

    I asked an older friend of mine who’s done reference checks to call him and pretend to be considering hiring me. My boss told my friend some crazy stuff about my departure from his company. Boss said I was escorted out of the building and then fired for violent behavior towards a co-worker, and also that I was a poor performer who used to make fun of another co-worker for having an accent. Every word of that is complete BS. The way my friend tells me the conversation went, it sounds like he was picking

    This guy will never get in any sort of trouble for anything ever because he’s related to someone very, very high up in the large company where I worked for him (we worked at a Fortune 100 and he’s related to someone who works directly under a C-level). Can I just start telling future companies to not contact him? I really don’t want to get a lawyer involved.

    1. Worried About References*

      For that sentence that just cut off, it should say “it sounds like he was picking the worst things to say about me out of a hat. Like ‘well, saying he’s bad at his job might not be enough. What if I say he’s racist and has violent tendencies too? That should do it!'”

    2. Ultraviolet*

      I’m basing this just on my recollection of Alison’s advice, not experience (which I don’t have):

      You can’t really ask prospective employers not to contact him without looking suspicious, but you can give them a heads-up that you’ve been told he’s giving factually inaccurate references about you. You also should contact HR at your old company and tell them that your former boss is giving factually inaccurate references about you. Do this even if you didn’t find HR very helpful when you worked there–even a mediocre HR department should recognize the potential for legal trouble here and step in.

      In both situations (that is, talking to old HR and warning prospective reference checkers), make sure to emphasize that the references are factually inaccurate, that they include events that never happened, and that your boss has claimed you were fired when you in fact resigned (to take a new job or whatever). Otherwise you risk them thinking that you just disagree with your old boss on subjective grounds, like whether you were a hard worker or something.

      I would guess that you can also suggest to prospective employers that they can contact your old HR directly to confirm that you resigned and were not fired, especially if you tell your old HR that you’re going to do so. That would probably cast some doubt on the veracity of the bad reference.

      1. Worried About References*

        About their HR… the reason this boss and I had such a huge falling out is because I found out he was dating another one of his direct reports, I reported it, and got written up a couple of days later for “coming in hung over” without any evidence, and HR didn’t investigate. I suppose that there is hope that now that there’s a definite legal issue of defamation they’d be more likely to act, but I’m still pessimistic about it.

        I’ve become really anxious because since the first company rejected me, I asked two of my other managers at that company if they’d be OK with being references for me (I was there a long time). One said “I’m sorry, but I’m not comfortable with it…I just can’t explain why, but I don’t feel comfortable with serving as a reference for you.” and the other just didn’t reply and removed me from LinkedIn. I’m getting worried that Jerk Boss is basically throwing a tantrum and trying to sink my reputation at that company.

  158. anon because reasons*

    Ok, this just happened and I realized I really don’t know what to do, please halp! Regular poster, but I’m going anon for this question because I need to give more specifics than I would like.

    I am a non-exempt, hourly Admin Assistant, and I work in California. Our OT law is overtime for anything over 8 hours a day, not just 40 hours per week. I have a principal who I support as my main job, but I technically report to another Admin in another state, but I rarely talk to the Admin supervisor.

    My principal is slightly disorganized but works a lot. They know my work hours, but sometimes will not watch the time and realize at 5:20 that they have a question for me or a small task they need me to do before starting time the next day, so they will text me. They usually apologize for texting so late, but still, I’m expected to answer or complete the task. These questions/tasks never take more than 5 minutes, and usually much less, tonight it took me about 20 seconds to write my response. But I still get kind of stressed out in the long run knowing that I kind of have to be paying attention to my phone, I could get a question at any time and have to remember something from earlier that day off the top of my head.

    I am really not sure what to do about this. I know everyone is aware that I have to get overtime for anything over 8 hours per day. The rare times that I have actually done 20 minutes or an hour of work after 5, I specifically asked and said “This will take me at least another half hour until 5:30, am I approved for overtime?” And got a “yes” and then put that on my time card. But I’m not sure if I should put it on my time card if I answer a 20 second question at 5:25pm? Or should I ask my Admin supervisor directly what I should do when this happens? Or if it’s more like, ignore anything under 5 minutes, but record anything 5 minutes or more? (We bill time in 15 minute increments).

    I’m totally stressing about this, and honestly kind of resentful it is even coming up, because if they would just pay attention to the freaking time and ask me these things during work hours, it wouldn’t be an issue, and I don’t feel like I’m paid enough to be prepared to answer questions at any time of the night. Gah! And now this is really long, yikes!

    1. Newish Reader*

      Does your company have any types of policies or practices around call-back pay (or does CA law cover that) that you could reference in a conversation with your boss? We have non-exempt employees (not CA) whose jobs may require them to come back to the company after hours. Policy dictates they receive a minimum number of hours of pay to compensate for the inconvenience.

      Maybe you could talk with your boss about setting a minimum for any work done at home, such as fifteen minutes or a half hour. The fact that you have to be attentive to your texts after hours should be recognized and compensated, even if the actual work takes less than a minute. Of course, that’s just my opinion and not necessarily law.

      1. anon because reasons*

        I’m not sure, actually. I’m a little worried that feels like overkill, since it’s sometimes about one 60 second incident in an entire month, and some months it doesn’t happen at all. But maybe this is a good possible solution to bring up that might help move the conversation forward.

        And thanks for validating that I should be compensated for this time, I agree, even though it’s only your opinion! ;-)

      1. anon because reasons*

        Yeah, I think you’re right, I need to bite the bullet and just go up the chain for an answer. I had brought this up already and got kind of a generic response about overtime approval that didn’t really answer my question, so I think I’m avoiding it because I’m trying not to be that squeaky wheel needy person.

        Thanks for the voice of reason!

    3. Sophie Winston*

      Would it be feasible to swing by their office 20-30 minutes before quitting time to remind them you’ll be leaving soon and is there anything else they need? To try to cut down on the quantity of items you need to deal with using the other suggestions provided above.

      1. anon because reasons*

        Yeah, I wish, but not really. They are usually on transit on the way home, or working from a home office by then, and even if I called or emailed a reminder, 20 minutes is just enough time for them to ‘forget’ and lose track of time, and still remember at 5:05 that they have a question.

        It really doesn’t happen that often, but I’m dealing with anxiety issues as it is, so even that one time is enough to totally stress me out.

        But thanks for the suggestion, it’s a good one and one I would be doing if it was possible.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Try to estimate how many times a week this is happening. It only has to happen 3 times and you have worked one hour of overtime.
      Can you send out a last call at 4:45? “Just a reminder that I am leaving in 15 minutes exactly. If there is anything you need now is a good time to mention it. Otherwise I will talk to you in the morning. ”

      It sounds like you feel you have to keep your phone on and checking it because of work, even though the workday has ended. I think you need to go with the general “how would you like me to handle this?” As in “Boss, I get frequent calls after I am technically off the clock. How would you like me to handle this in regard to overtime pay?”

      1. Anon because reasons*

        No, it’s not 20 minutes of work, and it’s not every week. Some months it doesn’t happen at all. It’s only 10 seconds to 1 minute. It’s often just texting
        back one sentence about something i know off the top of my head.

        That’s why I am not sure what to do, if it was 20 minutes it would be really clear what to do. this feels like a weird thing to be worried about.

        But i’ll talk to my admin supervisor and see what she thinks.

  159. Anon hand writer*

    Oh man, I am ridiculously late here, but I’ll throw this out in case anyone is still around.

    I work in a fast-paced environment that’s semi-open to the public, and am frequently running around the office and public area juggling urgent tasks and sudden requests. To keep track of things-I-must-not-forget-but-can’t-do-right-this-very-second, I write on my hands. A lot (palms only). I was meeting my mom after work earlier this week after an incredibly busy day, and had one palm covered in notes (nothing really legible – mostly strings of numbers or a word or two to job my memory. Some were faded out.) She mentioned that I might not want to do that at work, since it seems very “teenager-y” (I’m in my early 20s and looking to move up in the company in the next few years).

    What does the AAM group think? Unprofessional, stop at once? Eh, not the greatest, but outweighed by other professionalism and the fact that it makes a big difference in not dropping tasks or forgetting things? Personal quirk, nbd?

    tl;dr: I write on my hands when I don’t have paper handy and need to remember something. Is that unprofessional?

      1. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

        Good catch. It’ll be all polarizing and controversial because there are strong feelings on this subject. I’m predicting fights break out.

  160. Theresa*

    Ack! I forgot it was Friday!

    I’m starting the grad school application process (my god, I should have done this earlier, but anyway) and I need to make a CV. How exactly do you convert a resume to a CV? I’m applying to a professional program, so I don’t have any publications (nor is that expected for my program). How would a proper CV look? Are there any online resources I can use to help me?

    1. No Name Yet*

      Maybe go to work on Monday but plan to take another day next week (probably not Friday) as a mental health sick day?

    2. overeducated*

      A CV has no page limit, has education at the top, tends to include less or no description of position duties/ accomplishments (it’s more of a list format), and tends to have separate sections for awards, grants won, presentations at conferences and professional meetings, professional memberships, and “service” (anything from serving on committees to mentoring). I would organize with education, then positions, then in order of what has the most content. Google for examples in your field and just fill in as much a you can.

    3. Sophie Winston*

      Are you sure you need a CV? For a professional program not expecting publications? If we are talking about a business masters program I am 99% certain they just want a resume. Might be worth checking what they want.

  161. Confused*

    Yesterday (Thursday) a colleague was suddenly let go. As in, some of us couldn’t even get in the building this morning because our employer had changed the locks. I am so confused. Clearly she was fired for something serious enough that our employer changed the locks and didn’t even wait for Friday to fire her. And yet everyone (boss included) is saying that we wish her the best, and we should all go to her birthday party to cheer her up. Nobody will say why this happened and my boss specifically says she can’t legally tell us the reason, but as far as I can tell it’s not actually illegal to disclose why someone was fired.

    I’m just having a hard time with this. In our industry, turnover is unheard of at this time of year. Why didn’t our employer give the employee a few weeks’ notice so that the transition could come at a better time for all of us? If the employee’s misconduct was so egregious that they fired her on a Thursday and changed the locks, then how am I supposed to feel about the encouragement to go to her birthday party?

    1. Morbidly Curious*

      I guess you should go to the party, if for no other reason than to hear her side of things if she’s willing to talk about it.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Feel however you want about it. There is nothing written in stone about how we “should” feel about anything.

      I might consider going to the party just to see if I could find out what happened, or figure out if my employer has gone off the deep end.

  162. Small Colllege*

    Hi all,

    I wanted to ask everyone if they have experience going to a small liberal arts college, and how was the academic experience and the career outcomes?

    I am not planning on majoring in a STEM field. I am more into administrative work along the lines of business, economics, education, etc.

    I lived in California where there is a combination of metro and suburban small towns.

    I looked through some of the small liberal arts (mostly religious affiliated) colleges in my state and I don’t see anything bad about them, except for the high tuition cost. They offered most of the business, education, non-STEM degrees that large public universities offers.

    Will employers be interested at graduates of schools such as Dominican University, Pacific Union College, St. Mary’s College of CA, etc.?

    Provided that I can afford the tuition, is it worth going to a small liberal arts schol.?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      There are two issues here: Will you get a good education at a small liberal arts school, and will employers be impressed with the school?

      The answer to both depends totally on the individual school, so there’s not one blanket answer.

      But the colleges you named are likely to be neutrals with employers — neither help nor hurt. Employers are impressed if they see a “name-brand” school — something with name recognition. The ones you’ve named here don’t really have name recognition (at least not outside of California). That’s not a problem, but they won’t be a plus for you in the way that, say, some of the UC’s would be. Given that, I’d be really wary of forking over high tuition unless there’s something very specific about one of those schools that’s drawing you (like a particularly excellent program in the field you want to go into it). Otherwise I would look at the UCs, or other public universities, or private schools where the high tuition is at least buying a name-brand that can open doors.

    2. Rob Lowe can't read*

      Related to what Alison said, you might want to also take a look at statistics about graduation rates, student retention, post-graduation debt, and employment outcomes for the schools you’re considering. Some of these factors may not be an issue for you (for example, if you have the means to pay full tuition without taking loans, if you have a strong support network, if you have professional connections, etc.), but some might, and I think that before you commit four (or more) years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars (or more), you owe it to yourself to gather as much information as possible. There was an article in the Boston Globe a few months back which was primarily focused on first generation students’ college debt from attending (though not necessarily graduating from) small colleges. I realize that this may not be even remotely similar to your situation, but one of my big take-aways from reading that article is the importance of looking at how attending a particular college is going to impact one’s life for, say, the next 10, 15 years, not just the time one is actually enrolled in the school. I honestly think this applies to anyone considering college, whether you come from a long line of college graduates or are poised to be the first in your family to graduate, whether you plan to become an engineer or a journalist or an artist or an anything else, and regardless of your financial situation. And I am a teacher, so I do spend a non-zero amount of time every week considering the merits of post-secondary education. :) Good luck to you, OP! I’m sure you’ll make the right decision for you, just make sure it’s an informed one!

    3. overeducated*

      Ugh, I was writing out a long reply, switched tabs to look up a college name, and the page reloaded and it got lost. I’m finding loading times of almost a minute on this post today.

      Anyway, I went to a small liberal arts college, loved it, got a great education, and most of my friends are doing very well. (I’m one of the exceptions, but that’s because I was dumb enough to get a PhD instead of stopping with an MA.) What made the biggest difference on the career front was financial aid. I turned down a school I was very excited about that “offered” $40k/yr in loans. My college paid half of my tuition and guaranteed to meet all demonstrated need and limit loans to $14k total; saved me hundreds of dollars a semester with a textbook lending library; and supported me through two summers of low or unpaid nonprofit internships and one year on a competitive fellowship after graduation to get relevant experience outside of the classroom. THAT is what made the difference for me, and those programs are more important now than ever because internships are so required now.

      In short, money matters and it’s one of the ways liberal arts colleges help set up their graduates for the future. Often top ranked schools have the biggest endowments and best aid – Pomona and Scripps are a couple of the top ones in CA. I would think really carefully about going to an expensive private school with limited aid over a great CA state school, even though I loved the liberal arts experience.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      When you say you can “afford the tuition,” do you mean you and your parent(s) can pay the tuition in full? Or do you mean you’ll be taking out loans? Alison’s absolutely right that the schools you’ve mentioned will not by name alone impress potential employers. If your major concern is name-brand recognition, UC Berkeley and UCLA are widely recognized (even outside of California) as prestigious state schools (and far cheaper, though not cheap). If you want to go to a prestigious small liberal arts college in California, go to Pomona.

      Just in terms of small liberal arts in general… I went to a small liberal arts school. I learned a lot. It was a good environment. Lots of academic challenges. Lots of interesting stuff going on. Nothing on-the-job practical, but that’s the whole point—it’s not supposed to be a vocational school. That said, for a few reasons, I don’t think you should focus too much on how much in your college education will be directly related to your future jobs:

      1. Jobs and the job markets change over time. The job I do now did not exist five years ago in its current form and essentially did not exist at all when I went to college. You can’t train for something that doesn’t exist yet.

      2. Your own interests change. Lots of people hit a quarter-life crisis in their mid-20s where they thought or were so sure they wanted to do one particular thing, did it for a few years, and then realized they don’t want to do it.

      3. Sometimes you can adapt. It’s not that easy to bounce around from job type to job type, but it can be done and is done. I was an English major, and now I work in tech. I had zero computer science or tech training in college. Zero. I also have zero regrets about majoring in English.

      My advice would be if you’re hard up for money, (i.e., “afford” means “take out a lot of loans”), go to a UC. If you’ve got money to spare (“afford” means “pay tuition in full with no debt”), go to whatever school you want and study whatever you want. Make those summers count, though—work, get internships, gain experience!

      1. anon because reasons*

        Wow, this is an amazing response and pretty much covers everything I was thinking, but is so much better said than I would have done!

        I would definitely encourage you to think about what your ‘goal’ is here. Is it to have a great career as soon as possible? Is it the academic experience in and of itself? what is most important to you?

        I went to a small liberal arts college most people haven’t heard of. It has done less than nothing to help my career, but that wasn’t my goal. I loved learning and I am still happy I had my two-year experience there, because it was fulfilling to me in ways that aren’t reflected in my paycheck. But there are downsides, because I am still struggling to have a successful career, while people my age who went to schools with more prestige, and more career development options have much better careers and are making way more money than I am.

        And honestly, if you live in a state with a really strong state system (and CA has two, the UC system, and the California State system is also pretty darn good) I think you will probably be much better off saving the money and thinking about your career goals and how your education will serve them now.

    5. KJ*

      I went to a small, liberal arts college with no name recognition. 99% of the people I tell where I went to undergrad say “Huh, never heard of it.” That being said, it was worth it to me because (1.) I got a scholarship, (2.) I really wanted to be able to design my own program in school and this school allowed that, and (3.) I knew I was going to grad school AND that I could get good grades at this school. I was admitted to a competitive grad school program without a problem, in part due to my 3.9 GPA. One thing to consider is IF you are going on from your BA to get a MA or Ph.D, the most important thing to factor in about undergrad is how well you will do in grad school admissions; if you go to grad school, no one will really care where you did your undergrad. If you don’t know what you want to study or are seriously torn between 2 areas of study, I’d do a year at a local, inexpensive college (community college or otherwise) and make up your mind and knock out most of the low-level credits you could get anywhere. I did that and my good grades at the local college got me a scholarship to the other school. Don’t go into serious debt to take Psych 101 at fancy college when you could take it for half the cost at another school.

    7. Persephone*

      I am coming late to this, but hope you see my comment. I work at a small liberal arts college, previously worked at a large state flagship university, and graduated from a mid-size private university. The huge advantage of a liberal arts college is that students get a great deal of individual attention, mentoring and guidance. Classes are typically small; it would be unusual to be one of several hundred students in a class, more likely your classes will be 15-30 people. So your professors know you well. More than that, you’ll not only have access to internship opportunities, fellowships, and career services, but all those offices will actively reach out to you and coach you through the process of applying and preparing to be successful. The fellowships office at my current college, for example, prepares lists of students who qualify for each kind of fellowship (these are usually post-grad opportunities to study, do research, or work in the nonprofit sector, in the US or abroad) and contact them as early as sophomore year so that interested students can get lots of hands-on mentoring. Same with internships, and my college, like many others, offers funding to students for internships, so if you want an unpaid summer internship working with a non-profit in Chicago or Uzbekistan, you can take it, pay for your expenses, and end up with a little cash in hand as well.

      Because liberal arts colleges are small and usually almost completely residential, the students and alumni form close bonds. Recent graduates can tap into the alumni network so you can reach out to someone in the field you’re interested in who graduated 20 or 30 years before and that person will almost certainly go out of their way to help you.

      Liberal arts colleges also typically offer a lot more financial aid than applicants think they will. You should not have to pay the sticker price unless your family is quite wealthy.

  164. A-nonny-non*

    Argh. I had an informal meeting with my C-level boss earlier this week in which they told me that the directors’ meeting next week could lead to big changes for our company, but Boss couldn’t share any details. It could be nothing. Given what I know about Boss and some premature extrapolations in the past, I think “nothing” is a fairly likely outcome. But now Boss has me mulling over what else they could have meant. Are we shutting down? Are we staffing way up? No way to tell.

    In other news, this conversation included this gem: “I can’t tell you what’s going on because you like to gossip.” [several minutes later] “OK, I can’t keep this in and I have to tell you, but you can’t share.” Excuse me, Boss, you have a log in your eye…

  165. My Throat No Longer Burns*

    This is an update to this comment: https://www.askamanager.org/2016/11/open-thread-november-11-12-2016.html#comment-1261790

    So the Wednesday before our Thanksgiving break as I was leaving the office I approached Jane and wished her a happy holiday and then mentioned the perfume. I believe my exact words were “I feel awkward bringing this up since we don’t know each other well, but it seems your perfume is causing an allergic reaction. Would you be willing to not wear it to the office?” To my relief she said absolutely and she understood that some people have sensitivities to scents.

    When we came back to the office the next week I noticed a difference right away. She still uses something else that’s a little strong, but not to the point where there’s a cloud of scent following her around the office or hanging over my desk. I can even eat lunch at my desk again and it doesn’t feel like I’m eating soap!

    I’m so relieved that it worked out. I realize that my fear of “confrontation” is due to my upbringing where you couldn’t speak your mind without being attacked. I’m slowly learning that reasonable people do not respond that way and that it’s ok to express your wishes in a respectful manner and the other person won’t necessarily make a huge stink (pun intended) about it.

    I’m so happy I can go to work now without coming home feeling sick. Thank you to everyone for the advice!

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