open thread – April 21-22, 2017

by Alison Green on April 21, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. my name is Rory*

    Has anyone ever been jealous in a good, awestruck kind of way (as opposed to a mean, toxic kind of way)?

    This week there was a huge conference and trade show for my industry. One of the managers from my work was set to give a talk and presentation but he was a no show. Later it came out he was at the bar back at the hotel but he was even texting people saying he was on his way though he wasn’t. His assistant ended up doing it. I don’t mean any disrespect to her but she only started here in August, is not even 20 years old yet and had no previous experience or school classes/training in our industry. And she did amazing. She has no training in the topics the manager was supposed to present on. But she had some of his notes and she engaged the audience and tried to inject some humor into it. She pulled off a 30 minute talk and presentation along with a question period in front of over a thousand people. If she got asked something she did not know the answer to she asked the person their name and their company name and said someone would contact them. I can’t explain it but she managed to still make it look like she knew exactly what she was doing even when she was admitting she didn’t. She got a standing ovation and for the rest of the conference people were only saying good things. She saved the company huge embarrassment because slots to give talks are limited and not every company gets one ever year. She didn’t even ask, she just took the notes and went on after her boss was introduced for a second time.

    The management here is impressed with her and so am I. I am almost twice her age and have been in the industry for years and the thought of doing what she did makes my stomach flip flop. She said she does comedy, improv and theatre in her spare time and has no problem being in front of a crowd. I am jealous because I could never pull off what she did, but in a “you’re awesome, great job” kind of way. I was honestly the best presentation I have ever seen at one of these things.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Wow. I hope her boss is fired and she is given a promotion. Or at least a huge bonus.

      3. Another Lawyer*

        Eh, you don’t know what happened with the boss so that’s a pretty big leap to firing. But she does sound awesome.

    4. Nic*

      Wow. That’s super impressive! I get what you mean by jealous in a good way.

      I’ve had a few of those. Usually it’s folks in whom I see habits or characteristics that I really admire.

    5. Catbird*

      That’s awesome! I hope your company does something to recognize and foster that talent, or else she’ll be on to greener pastures in short order.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Pretty much. She’ll be running that place soon, or at least her current department if her boss doesn’t get it together.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          I recognize that I’m going to come off as a killjoy here, so my apologies if that’s not in the spirit of this nice thread about a talented person.

          But: While the manager here clearly has significant problems and this young woman clearly has a great deal of poise and skill in giving presentations, that doesn’t necessary translate into leadership/expertise/skill in other areas.

          She deserves public kudos & thanks (and to have her manager managed, whatever they decide to do about him), not (necessarily) a promotion.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            While the manager here clearly has significant problems and this young woman clearly has a great deal of poise and skill in giving presentations, that doesn’t necessary translate into leadership/expertise/skill in other areas.

            This is true. But she clearly knows how to think on her feet, how to inspire others (as per the OP), and seems eager to learn, so even if she doesn’t have all of the things she’d need to be management material right now, she’s definitely on her way.

            1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

              Totally. If I were her manager, I’d be heaping on praise and looking for opportunities to help her grow in the organization. She seems great.

              I’m just a grumpus about the idea that excelling in one highly public skill means that you will automatically excel in the less-glamorous parts of any job. (Ack, my bitterness is seeping out. :))

              2. paul*

                I agree. I don’t want to downplay what the person did, and they certainly deserve it noted in their WPR and public recognition, but being good at this doesn’t mean that she’ll be a good manager. I also agree that it’d be worth them looking at mentoring her and providing her extra opportunities to grow.

                1. Catbird*

                  Agree with you all! I’m not saying she should be promoted straight to manager, just that she obviously has talent and the company would be smart to foster that.

          2. LBK*

            Yeah, I agree. And while this is absolutely impressive it’s still only a relatively small amount of information; sometimes people who are charismatic and confident are nightmares in myriad other ways (as someone who works in sales support, that pretty much describes all of our top sellers).

    6. Emily*

      That’s amazing – major props to her! I hope that the company finds a way to recognize her for her performance.

    7. ann perkins*

      I love that story! Thanks for sharing. Also, curious as to what is going to happen to the manager who was at the bar instead of giving the presentation.

    8. Jane Gloriana Villanueva*

      I have experienced that positive jealousy, and I think the key to not letting it sour is to do part of what you’ve started to do, first of all praising her to her face and to management. Her good performance reflects well on all of you (and deflects from some of the potentially negative attention paid toward that manager!). I would continue to find the good points in the presentation and the manner in which she conducted it and see what you might be able to bring into your own work in areas you feel could use improvement. It might be helpful to think of this as in informal mentor relationship — I firmly believe that mentors aren’t always older — and see if you can develop more of a sharing arrangement to continue to glean insights back and forth.

    9. CBH*

      Hi Rory
      That’s great that you so admired your colleague. You should congratulate her on a job well done.

      You sound a little jealous. To be honest I would be too. Just remember that everyone is good at something; everyone has something to improve upon. Your strength may be her weakness. Your colleague is great at presentations. You never know your colleague probably admires your work and would like to talk about your experiences.

    10. Amber Rose*

      Yep, I often have positive jealousy. It’s kind of fun, especially with younger people, because you just know they’re going amazing places and really deserve it.

      She deserves some kind of work recognition, I hope she gets it.

    11. animaniactoo*

      That is amazing. Kudos to her. I’m in awe – I’m known to have all kinds of chutzpah and I still don’t think I’d have had that much.

    12. AnitaJ*

      Totally understand professional jealousy, but it does sound like you are happy for her! If jealousy lingers, I’d try and think about the ways in which you may have contributed to her success. As you said, she made you all look good–she saved the company from embarrassment. So I’m sure you did something, either directly or indirectly, that helped her. Kudos to all.

    13. ZVA*

      Have you told her how impressed with her you are? It sounds like maybe you have but I strongly encourage you to do so if you haven’t! I agree with Jane Gloriana Villanueva that a great way to keep that “positive” jealousy from souring is to tell her (& others) how you feel… Honestly, I wouldn’t even call it jealousy, b/c that has a negative connotation I don’t think applies here: admiration, maybe…

      1. TL -*

        I know what she means – admiration doesn’t go far enough, because there’s also an element of “I wish I could be like that!”
        I feel like that with a lot of people in my workplace – they’re older and much more together than I am, and I really admire it in an “I want to emulate it but I struggle so much!” kind of way. I like it, I want it, and I’m a little envious that I don’t have it (but I’m glad and wowed that they have it!)

    15. Elizabeth West*

      Yes, I have. I know a couple of skaters who worked really hard and now have careers in skating. One is competing at the elite level, and the other has been traveling the world with Disney on Ice!

      I’m envious, especially of the second person, but I’m also really really proud of them. They have earned these experiences. I can skate, but I know it will never be at that level. However, I have other talents at which I can work and who knows? I might even make it myself. :) So they definitely inspire more than green-faced teeth gnashing.

      1. Me2*

        I grew up in a skating family and spent my childhood in ice rinks. One sister was in the Junior Olympics and one sister was in either the Ice Capades or Ice Follies, I can never remember which, but she traveled the US and Europe for a couple of years. Boy is it fun to look at pictures of those days now. But I was, alas, the non-talented sister who spent most of my ice time reading a book. I should say the traveling sister did not get to spend much time being a tourist because they were always on such tight schedules, she definitely didn’t think it was anything to envy even though it certainly sounded glamorous at the time. Plus they had weekly public weigh-ins! Enough said!

        1. Elizabeth West*

          My friend in DoI doesn’t have tons of time for sightseeing either, but she and her fellow skaters are managing to have a great time, if her pictures are any indication. And they’re building some great relationships. :) As for my competing friend, things have been rough for her lately, but I’ve got my fingers crossed for her. She has a lot of determination and tons of support. Neither one of them has it easy–but they both love skating and they know they’re lucky to get to do what they love.

    16. Liz2*

      I would call it envy and think it’s a great way to envision who you want to be and motivate to get there!

    17. Breda*

      That’s amazing! It also fits perfectly into something I once read and really latched onto: the difference between envy and jealousy. Jealousy is “I wish I had that instead of you,” whereas envy is “I wish I had that as well as you.” I don’t think this distinction is really the common connotation, but I find it SO HELPFUL for myself. Just being able to recognize that you don’t want to take something away from someone else can prevent the feeling from turning to bitterness.

      1. Anna Pigeon*

        I was just going to post a variation on this.

        Envy, within reason, is a positive. Envy inspires you to work towards having something someone else has in a more generic way (a great job or a loving partner).

        Jealousy is almost always a negative. It’s the fear someone will take away a specific thing you have or want (that specific job, partner, etc.).

    18. Rebecca in Dallas*

      That’s awesome! Good for her, sounds like her improv and theatre experience paid off in an unexpected way!

      I know what you mean about being jealous in a positive way. I try to use those people as inspiration! And I try to tell them as well. I had someone tell me years ago that she noticed how much color I wear, whereas she always tended towards black and grays. She was trying to branch out in her wardrobe choices and so she’d think about me when shopping or putting together an outfit. It kind of made my day (and maybe my life, since I clearly still think about it haha).

      1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        Kudos to your colleague she was given an opportunity to shine and she did. I know of a lot of people who don’t take advantage of those kinds of opportunities. Be sure to congratulate your colleague and tell her that she did a great job. I’m sure you are great at your job, too. And it sounds like you are inspired. Use that to your advantage.

    20. Victoria, Please*

      Jealous all the time in a good way! :-) Wow, Assistant Power there! Good for her.

    21. emma2*

      Yes – lots of times!

      I never wish badly on others as a result of it, but sometimes it does make me feel inadequate. However, two ways I have learned to deal with it are: 1) Focus on exactly what aspects you most admire, and aspire to these characteristics; and 2) Don’t be afraid to embrace your (healthy) competitive spirit! Yes, I said it. Don’t be afraid see how much you can excel at XYZ to the point of rivaling them.

      The second one keeps me from feeling too intimidated by the object of my admiration and instead convinces me that I can be just as good. The obvious caveat is to not let it become a negative, bitter competition, and to remember that is more a perceived competition (by you) than a real one. (I remember in high school constantly feeling like I had to desperately keep up with one of my friends who not only was an all-around awesome person, but a stellar debater. Later on I learned that our debate team considered both of us to be two of the top performers – so I was perceived by others as being equal(ish?) to her even though I always felt so inadequate. You never know how much others might praise/admire you the same way. )

    22. Falling Diphthong*

      This is a wonderful example of how you can pick up things that are not remotely in your desired field, and they turn out to have cross-over.

  2. ZSD*

    Good news!
    A week or so ago, I applied for a job for which the ad didn’t specify a salary range but asked me to include desired salary in my cover letter. (Grr.)
    I didn’t name a number in the letter and instead said something like, “I would be happy to discuss salary after discussing the position more.”
    And I just got invited to a phone interview! So not naming a desired salary wasn’t a deal-breaker.

    2. SanguineAspect*

      Ooooh! This is exciting! Hope your phone interview is amazing. As my husband tells me before any Big Work Thing: “Go forth and kick ass!”

    6. Rebecca F*

      I’m having this problem with a job application right now and have been freaking out, I’m totally stealing your response! Good luck!

  3. What's for lunch?*

    Has anyone successfully gone from being a daily lunch buyer to a daily lunch bringer?

    Some background:

    I enjoy cooking, but am single and live by myself, so I end up with a lot of waste anytime I do cook. There is a grocery store near my work and I have tried to buy ingredients to make sandwiches for the week, but I get bored after two days of the same thing and inevitably start eating out again. I also go to school at night, and I often don’t eat dinner for logistical reasons, so just packing up leftovers from dinner is not really an option (please let’s not debate whether or not skipping meals is okay).

    Between my irregular schedule, my need for variety and the challenges of meal planning for one, I spend so much money on food and waste so much of it that I just cannot find a system that can get me to regularly bring my lunch to work.

    Any ideas? Any success stories?

    1. Leatherwings*

      I do meal prep on Sunday or Monday night. I usually cook two dishes (easy ones though) with enough food for two to three days and package it up and stick it in the fridge or freezer. Then I’m not eating the same thing for five days straight. It only takes an hour and it’s so much cheaper.

      1. Corky's wife Bonnie*

        I do this too. I also make a pot of soup and freeze some of it, and keep some for lunches. One day I’ll have it with crackers, another with 1/2 sandwich, another with a salad. That way I don’t feel like I’m eating the same thing all the time.

          1. LS*

            I’ve been doing this for a while with varying degrees of success. Cooking once or a twice a week works for me, and from a variety point of view I sometimes cook something plain that I can flavour differently per serving. (I’m not organised enough for side dishes…) For example if you make a simple pasta with napoletana sauce, you can add chickpeas & feta, chilli & sautéed zucchini, pesto, sautéed mushrooms & olives, smoked salmon & cream, etc. You’ll notice that most of these are pantry ingredients so if you don’t use them, they don’t go to waste. To a couscous and roast veg salad you can add different dressings and toppings, harissa, feta, olives. These all depending on keeping the flavour of the original dish simple. I’ve also prepared large trays of crustless quiche – you can put a different filling into each corner of the baking dish. (They are good for a couple of days but not the whole week.) Search for make ahead salad and homemade pot noodle recipes for more inspiration :)

              1. LS*

                Where I live, the cost of a generous serving of home-cooked pasta, topped with (store bought) napoletana sauce, (store bought) pesto and half a tin of chickpeas is about half the cost of a filled roll bought at a sandwich place. If you make the sauce and pesto yourself, it’s even less, and they can be made in bulk and frozen. That sounds like a pretty reasonable option to me, if you are trying to reduce excessive food costs and wastage.

      2. EddieSherbert*

        This is right up my alley – I hate cooking but I rarely eat out!

        Like Leatherwings, I do the Sunday evening mass cooking of a couple things that can be frozen if I don’t want it in a couple days.

        I also have my staples that I can “swap in” for a meal (all things that can be held onto for awhile without going bad). A coupe ones I’ve been into recently:
        A lot of canned soups last a couple meals if you dump them over pasta or rice.
        Easy burrito = beans mixed with salsa (and cheese!) on a tortilla.

        I’m also a BIG fan of the fresh fruit/veggies you can buy individually (because I never finish a head of lettuce or a bag of carrots) – zucchini, cucumber, peppers are my veggie staples.

        The only fresh thing I might buy a bunch of is bananas, because it’s easy to make banana bread if I don’t eat them all in time.

        1. Hanna*

          I have long since admitted to myself that the easiest way to get vegetables into my diet is to buy them pre-sliced/cubed/whatever. I know it costs more, but no matter how optimistic I feel about that butternut squash when I buy it, I know deep down that I am just not going to work up the energy to go through the whole prep process myself, and the thing is going to go to waste.

          I’ll take that very convenient container of pre-cubed squash, thanks. At least I know for sure that I will actually eat the stuff.

          1. LBK*

            Ha, I’m totally the same way – it feels pathetic but I just can’t be arsed to do it myself. I just justify it by saying that I’ve put all my efforts into my work to earn a salary that allows me the luxury of not having to do menial tasks at home.

          2. KellyK*

            Nothing wrong with that at all! Veggies you will eat are worth way more than veggies that go to waste.

          3. GH in SOCal*

            I do the same thing sometimes, so I’m not judging, but another strategy I use is to separate the prep from the cooking. That is, I’ll come home from work and eat something already made (leftovers from the night before or something I froze on the weekend), and then, after I’ve eaten and I’m sitting watching TV, I’ll cut up a squash and maybe some onions, or I’ll trim a bunch of brussel sprouts, and put them in a ziploc and put them back in the fridge to cook another night. It’s like having the premade stuff, it’t just that I premade it — but not while I was hungry or impatient.

      4. Parenthetically*

        This is what I did when I was single and it worked great. I would cook 2 or 3 things plus a breakfast casserole that could be quickly nuked, portion it all out, and eat off of it for breafasts, lunches, and dinners all week. I could rotate as needed and freeze stuff, and always made sure I could still have popcorn or scrambled eggs or cereal for dinner when I wanted to. Highly, highly recommended. It’s an excellent money saver for obvious reasons, and an amazing time saver because it requires virtually no thought during the week.

      5. Rebecca in Dallas*

        That’s what I do. Things like soup, lasagna/baked ziti, enchiladas are really good left over. And the recipes are easy to double so I can freeze one batch as well. Then just pack them up in individual containers, grab and go!

      6. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

        Me three (or five?). I do my meal planning on Weds/Thursday, grocery buying on Saturday, and meal prep on Sunday/Monday for the week. Oftentimes just having useful tupperware to divvy up “mix and match” food items can go a long way toward making food feel less boring. When I had a more flexible schedule, I would do purchasing and prep twice a week (I really like vegetables, especially fresh ones), but that’s a little harder to maintain in winter when all that grows is potatoes.

    2. paul*

      Do you have freezer space? make two or three different freezer friendly meals and partition them out maybe? Chili here, a lasagna there, a stir fry…and designate Wednesday as an eat out day? One day a week is better than 5 for that. Cook up the three meals, alternate between them?

      That assumes you have at least a microwave at work though.

    3. Rowan*

      How much freezer space have you got? The key for me when I lived alone was making big batches of things on the weekend and them freezing individual portions, which worked for either lunch or dinner. I kept a real bowl at work that I could put my defrosted lunch into and microwave it. I still had variety, because I could make enough batches of various things to have something different for lunch every day.

      2. Grits McGee*

        Soup is great for this– make a pot on the weekend, put single-meal portions in ziploc sandwich bags to freeze (lay them flat to freeze to maximize freezer storage space). Do this a couple time to build up a rotation of meals, then pick a couple to leave in the refrigerator to thaw for the week. I’ve done the same thing with Zatarains boxed meals as well.

        1. kb*

          I love freezing sauce and soup flat to save space, but my husband has serious issues with getting the liquid to the bag. So he freezes it in ice cube trays or silicone muffin tins, then throws the frozen pieces in a bag the next day. Then to heat, it’s just a few cubes in a bowl in the microwave.

          1. Grits McGee*

            I use a wide-mouth canning funnel for bag-transference, but an ice cube tray would be a great solution for when I just want a soupy snack!

      3. ThursdaysGeek*

        Plus, by freezing your lunches, you have something to keep the rest of your lunch cold in the morning. I grab a frozen soup or leftover, add a piece of fresh fruit or veggie, and a goody, put them all in an insulated lunch bag, and have lunch. The frozen soup gradually thaws (but is still mostly frozen by lunch time), and keeps everything else cold, so I don’t have use the company fridge.

    4. Q*

      I usually do my grocery shopping and cook one big meal on Sunday. I eat it that day and pack up 3 containers as lunches to go. If I stick with taking my lunch Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, then I allow myself to buy lunch out on Thursday and Friday. Its really hard to do a whole week and can get boring eating the same thing over and over.

      1. Ashley*

        Yes. Give yourself a day or two off a week especially as you get used to packing a lunch. I have a higher success rate if I pack the night before and just have to reach into the fridge or freezer. I also try to keep something stashed in my drawer like a can of microwaveable stew and silverware.

        1. Beezus*

          Having a stashed alternative is key for me. I’m an on-again, off-again lunch bringer (currently off), but one thing that helps me consistently bring lunch when I’m on, is to have an alternative stashed at work in case I forget or the meal I brought doesn’t sound appetizing when it’s time to eat. I consistently kept pretzels, peanut butter, and oatmeal, and often had a piece or two of fruit. It also helped to leave my money at home (but I live close to work and there’s no risk I’ll be stranded far from home without money).

    5. Collie*

      I’m the kind of person who can eat the same lunch for literally months or weeks on end. For a long time, I did wraps with turkey, lettuce, tomato, and mayo with a handful of almonds and a vegetable on the side (usually carrots or bell peppers) or a cheese stick. I did eventually get bored of that and lately it’s been more pita with tuna and lettuce with peanuts. I think the key is to work on building a pantry that has items that can last at least a week or two without going bad. Deli meat will last a week or so, wraps will last two or more depending on the type, cheese sticks last a relatively long time (and there are different kinds out there if you get bored), as do nuts. Buy small quanitites of deli meat so you can have multiple kinds going at once to avoid boredom. Use different sauces and spreads. Different breads/wraps. Different nuts. Allow yourself a lunch out once a week so you can look forward to it and work toward it (“I can’t get lunch out on Thursday when my favorite food truck comes/that spot has my favorite special if I don’t bring my lunch M, T, and W.” — Enforcing that can be tough, so know yourself there.)

      This doesn’t quite fix the boredom problem, but I hope it helps some.

      1. Parenthetically*

        I think having a set thing you eat is a great idea to avoid having to come up with something every day, and then maybe you eliminate the boredom issues just by varying the contents.

        So, say, every day you have a wrap, but each day you have a different kind. Or every day you have a rice/grain/quinoa bowl, but one day it’s cold teriyaki chicken and veggies and rice, and one day it’s farro with cold shrimp and greens, one day it’s quinoa and chickpeas and roasted pumpkin. Or whatever. Pre-make all your proteins and grains, individually package and freeze them, and then just throw them together on Sunday night for the week.

    6. Temperance*

      What has worked for me is salad in a jar. I do my prep on Sunday nights, and I do make the same salad for each day, but you totally don’t have to. It keeps everything fresh for the week. I keep my dressing and cheese on the side, and just add them later.

      No judgment on skipping meals here. I do wonder if something like batch cooking or freezer cooking might work for you.

      1. Gadfly*

        I was doing the mason jar salads for a while and if they are stacked right (dressing, meat or beans, cheese, tougher veggies, lettuce on top, any croutons or chips outside of it.) Those stay good for a week and you can use the same base mix with other veggies and toppings to have some variety.

      2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

        I love salad in a jar (I basically love everything in mason jars, which just makes me a ridiculously basic hipster, or an avid canner). I also love batch cooked (frozen then reheated) leftovers for dinner.

    7. Sadsack*

      I cook a bunch of meat like chicken breasts and thighs or turkey sausage and then freeze them in small batches or infuvidually so I can grab something in the morning and reheat it for lunch or dinner. I do the same with cauliflower rice. I make batches of different types and freeze them in small servings. Often I’ll grab a chicken thigh and a packet of c. rice out of the freezer and throw them in a container to reheat later for lunch. I have a seal a meal machine and I love it! It has helped me plan better meals. I occasionally still get into slumps of eating out, but not as often as I used to.

      1. Parenthetically*

        I had a seal a meal when I was single and working full time and going to school and it was a LIFESAVER!

      2. A Non E. Mouse*

        I cook a bunch of meat like chicken breasts and thighs or turkey sausage and then freeze them in small batches or infuvidually so I can grab something in the morning and reheat it for lunch or dinner.

        We do something similar – grill up a bunch of chicken, chop it and save it in individual servings. Then lunch is grab-and-go. My favorite and easiest is those single-serve rice cups, with one of those bags of chicken, throw some cheese on top. Very minimal effort.

        There’s also individual frozen veggies you can pick up – you could do chicken and veggies instead of rice.

        Could you aim to “cook ahead” one thing each weekend? So one weekend make a big pot of soup and freeze what you don’t eat, the next grill some chicken, the weekend after that maybe it’s a chili, etc. – that would give you a good variety to choose from in the freezer each day, and over time enough variety to not be bored.

        Also don’t discount what I call a snack lunch: a yogurt, a fruit and a veggie of some kind. Doesn’t look very substantial, but if you buy hardy fruit and veggies (apples and carrots, for example) it can all be bought for a week at a time and just thrown in a bag, plus minimal clean up!

    8. Parcae*

      I’m also single and enjoy cooking. I bring my lunch most days.

      The key, I’ve found, is to find the intersection of what you like and what freezes well. I like soup and chili, so that’s mostly what I bring to work. I cook up a big batch (usually on the weekend since my dinners tend to simple pastas, salads, and sandwiches) and freeze it in individual serving sizes. Once you’ve got multiple “batches” of different meals frozen, it’s easy to rotate them so you’re not eating the same thing everyday.

      1. EmilyG*

        This is similar to what I do. It has to be tasty or else you’re sentencing yourself to hating 4 meals’ worth of food. And you have to know can freeze.

        Usually on Sundays I cook a single batch of something that doesn’t freeze, and a double batch of something that does freeze, and I freeze half of it. Something that doesn’t freeze could be chicken curry, farro and beet salad, pasta with asparagus. Freezable things for me are chili, beef stew, lentil soup, split pea soup, cream of whatever vegetables soup. If I end up with 4 non-freezable and 4 non-frozen and 4 frozen servings of food, I probably won’t waste any. I alternate between the fresh dishes and what’s in my freezer. For example:
        Monday lunch: chicken curry 1
        Monday dinner: farro salad 1
        Tuesday lunch: chicken curry 2
        Tuesday dinner: previously frozen chili
        Wednesday lunch: out
        Wednesday dinner: farro salad 2
        Thursday lunch: previous frozen lentil soup
        Thursday dinner: farro salad 3
        Friday lunch: chicken curry 3
        Friday dinner: farro salad 4
        Saturday lunch: chicken curry 4

        This habit has gotten really elaborate over time! If I have a week where I’ll be eating out a lot, I just make the fresh thing, or I eat from the freezer.

        Oh, and I almost always bring my lunch 4 times a week… but almost never 5 times.

    9. paperfiend*

      I’ve had luck with freezing leftovers after I’ve cooked something (you mention ending up with waste when you cook, which I take to mean “can’t eat all of it before it goes bad” – freeze those). I use containers that can go straight in the microwave. That way, at least a couple days a week, I can pull something from the freezer in the morning that will become an easy, hot meal at lunch – just add a fork!

      1. Parenthetically*

        The key with that, I’ve found, is labeling your containers diligently. I’ve also found it helpful to actually write on my calendar a week or two later “lunch: green curry rice (in freezer)” so it doesn’t get buried in the depths.

        1. Seuuze*

          I stole the idea for labeling containers from a famous chef. Blue paint tape and a sharpie with the item and date. I do this in the fridge too because I can forget how long it has been in there.

          A crock pot is a very useful and can be an inexpensive investment and there are many good cookbooks with delicious easy recipes. You can throw stuff in there overnight and have it ready in the morning, but you have to allow time for it to cool. Or you can prep the night before and put it in the crock pot in the morning and cook your food on low while you are at work. Soup, chili, chicken, all come out great when cooked low and slow.

          When I was in grad school as an assistant and studying all day and taking classes at night, I would bring canned tuna and salad fixings and homemade dressing, egg salad is also a good one, easy to make for a two day batch. Prepping at night for the next day. Also, I will prep stuff in advance and store it with lables. I would also make mac and cheese and freeze it. Soups, homemade marinara sauce, beans, etc. I freeze a lot of stuff in individual containers so I can just grab and heat them up. I do want want a food saver gizmo, but don’t have one yet.

          I had some folks over for brunch, made a wonderful cheesy egg and chili casserole, froze the remainder and had that off and on for a couple of weeks. But I like to cook, most of the time, but as a single person, sometimes it is hard to get up the energy to make some time-consuming dishes. But I still cook in batches
          and freeze.

    10. SMT*

      I do a couple different salads throughout the week (just changing up your salad toppings will help), and if we have leftovers after dinner, I’ll bring them with me. (It’s also important to note that I prefer eating my leftovers cold, so I hardly ever use the microwave). I do give myself one day a week to go out. It started as a ‘being part of the team’ thing, to go out at least once a week with them – but sometimes I’ll still do my one day going out for lunch on my own so that I have one day of not rushing to get my lunch ready before I leave the house, and one day of enjoying a meal that I didn’t have to prepare. (It won’t save a lot of money, but if you sign up for emails and apps at the restaurants you go to, you can get occasional rewards or freebies.)

    11. Catbird*

      One of my New Years resolutions this year was to cut down on workweek lunches out. I made a rule that I could go out for lunch twice a week and the rest of the time it was either freezer lunches or something fresh/leftover from home. So far, so good!

      …I’m still pretty terrible at not wasting the groceries I buy, though :-/

    12. all aboard the anon train*

      I don’t mind eating the same thing each day, which is why I usually make everything on Sunday and eat leftovers throughout the week. Sometimes I’ll get ambitious and make two or three different meals and rotate.

      What I recommend is making a big batch of rice or quinoa or beans and just adding different things to it. Or cooking a whole chicken and making different dishes with it throughout the week.

      When I was in grad school, I would pack food that I could eat cold. Certain pasta salads, spinach or bean based salads, sandwiches, a cheese/cracker/fruit platter, etc. and eat that before class. It was something I could eat on the subway or in five minutes before class started.

      1. chloe*

        +1 on quinoa … easy to make a. bunch of it then you portion it out through the week. My favorite two combos are waldorf quinoa – slice up half an apple (have the other half as a snack), add in goat cheese, craisins maybe some chicken and toss with balsamic, and then the other one I do is feta cheese, variety of peppers, avocado and toss with a chipotle ranch. (I hate salads, but somehow quinoa works for me!)

      2. Sami*

        Or instead of cooking a whole chicken, buy a rotisserie one. You can a few very different meals out of one of those.

      3. Parenthetically*

        Rice, quinoa, and beans all freeze REALLY well too, so you can cook even less often. I used to do it with brown rice all the time — make a massive pot of it (since it takes 40-50 minutes no matter the size of the batch), freeze it in 1-cup portions, and then not have to make rice for a month.

    13. Emily S.*

      I usually buy, but sometimes bring leftovers. But here are some ideas for you. Good luck!

      27 Awesome, Easy Lunches for Work: https://www.buzzfeed.com/rachelysanders/awesome-easy-work-lunches?utm_term=.dhaXL7re09#.kodY2A7mVB

      Cheap, Healthy Lunch Ideas: http://www.eatingwell.com/recipes/22371/mealtimes/lunch/budget/for-work/slideshow/cheap-healthy-lunch-ideas-for-work/

      Hearty, Satisfying Lunches: https://www.realsimple.com/food-recipes/recipe-collections-favorites/lunch-ideas

    14. kbeers0su*

      Yep! Mine was mostly done for budget reasons, as I used to have free meals at a prior job (not in the food industry). Once I switched to not having free meals spending my own money on food seemed like a waste. So now I pack at least four days a week, but also allow myself to buy once a week if I feel like it. I do sometimes pack leftovers, but I also tend to enjoy snacking more. So I’ll prep on Sunday by cutting up a bunch of fruit, carrot sticks, cheese cubes, etc. And I usually make salads- either actual lettuce salads or chicken/tuna/egg salads. It takes some time to prep all this (mostly because I buy things whole, like the carrots and fruit, although you could buy pre-cut stuff), but it’s definitely saved a lot of money. And allowing myself one day a week to buy lunch is nice, whether just because I don’t want what I have in my fridge or because people are ordering in and I want to join, or because I was running late and just forgot!

    15. NPO Queen*

      I also do meal prep on the weekends, but I cook a few meals. That way, I can switch them out whenever I get bored. When I worked full time and went to class, I kept a container of oatmeal at my desk for breakfast, would have meal #1 for lunch, and meal #2 for dinner. If you make about three meals, and portion them out into individual serving sizes, you can just grab what you feel like eating in the morning. I also live alone, so a meal for the week is usually what it would take to feed a family of four. Buy family size portions at the grocery store (especially if you cook anything from a box) and it should help.

    16. Kyrielle*

      What Leatherwings said, emphasis on the freezer. Freeze portions of several meals and taking them becomes easy. (Assuming they thaw okay, grab from the freezer, deposit in the fridge at work, microwave at lunch. Actually, I’ve done this with sandwiches, but I move them to my fridge the night before so they thaw, since I don’t want to microwave them.)

      Also, I keep packets of tuna fish and bowls of instant rice in my drawer at work. As a constant thing, they get old. As an option when I’m rushing and not up to packing a lunch, they’re great. (I do still bring the fruit/veg sides from home, usually baby carrots and a banana or something of the sort.)

      If you’re not dealing with dietary restrictions, buying microwave dinners can also work – it’s not as healthy as a home-cooked meal generally is, but it’s still cheaper than eating out and adds more variety than endless sandwiches. I used to do that a lot, but at this point there pretty much isn’t any I can actually have.

    17. cookie monster*

      For a long while (though I fell off the band wagon) I was really good about packing everything in advance on Sundays. I bought a bunch of little containers and ziplocks and an insulated lunch bag. I would put together baggies of trail mix, chopped veggies and hummus etc. Then every night, I would pack the lunch bag with those items plus yogurt, an individual fruit cup, cheese sticks, granola bars, peanut butter crackers, gummy fruit snacks, etc. In the morning, I would grab the bag and go.
      This worked for me because I could change up what I ate daily-I didn’t eat one of all of those items each day, just a trail mix and the veggies and a selection of other things. So I didn’t get too bored, because there was variety. Also, I didn’t have to invest too much time (which is generally a problem for me) and I didn’t have to deal with anything in the morning (another problem for me). Usually I would allow myself to eat out on Fridays.

    18. fish feud*

      I struggle with the same thing but find that searching pinterest for things like “lunch meal prep” helpful. I also cook a lot so I rely on leftovers. Cook large batches of things that will keep in the fridge for a few days or are easily freezable in individual portions. Also it’s helpful if you can prep certain ingredients in large batches that can be used in a variety of different ways. Like shredded or chopped chicken with some basic seasoning – can put in wraps, on salads or grains, tacos, pasta, on it’s own with a side, etc.

    19. Squeeble*

      My husband did this successfully. He does a combo of buying sandwich fixings and also making big dinners that can easily turn into portable leftovers. We do a lot of big rice or pasta dishes with meat and veggies thrown in.

      Would it make sense for you to make a big dinner on a weekend or a night when you’re home, and then pack/freeze portions for the week?

    20. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I use ziplock’s divided containers ($3-$4 for two at Target) and make my lunches on the weekend. If you look up adult bento or box lunch there are lots of ideas out there, but I generally just float around my grocery store’s deli section and pick up whatever looks tasty – usually a fruit, veggie, meat, cheese, maybe something sweet. If you include crackers I put them in in the mornings because they get soggy if they’re in the fridge all week. There are lots of pre-made stuff you can get and eat cold or scoop into another container and reheat if you want something warm. I pretty much never cook anything in advance and even just for one person it’s easy to mix and match. The nice thing with the separate compartments is that you don’t get smell or liquids leaking between items. For the large container, I often use silicon cupcake holders to keep things even more divided.

    21. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I have always brought my own lunch (frozen or shelf-stable, which are less effort than even a sandwich), and for variety I keep a lot of condiments in my office. Hot sauces, soy sauce, etc. Maybe that would help keep you from being bored? For the rest, you may just have to decide that Friday is the day you eat lunch out, and the rest of the time you have to make do with whatever you brought.

    22. Ann Furthermore*

      I had a cookbook once specifically designed for cooking meals for 2 people. I got rid of it because my husband is a big dude, and has a job that keeps him on his feet all day, so his normal servings are usually way more than the average person’s.

      If you had something like that, you could cook something, have enough for one serving of leftovers for lunch, and not have too much waste.

      I get where you’re coming from. I absolutely hate wasting food or having to throw anything away. It’s such a waste of money. Even though my husband eats larger portions of what I cook, I have to harp on him to eat the leftovers, to the point that I’ve designated Friday nights as leftovers night for dinner. I finally asked him what his aversion was to leftovers, and asked what his mom did when he was a kid. He rolled his eyes and laughed, reminding me that he grew up with 3 brothers, so not only were leftovers not a thing in his house, you were lucky not to get your hand stabbed with a fork if you went in for seconds.

    23. rozin*

      What I’ve found works for me is to make a regular two-person portion for dinner, eat half, and take the leftovers for lunch the next day and warm them in the microwave. Granted it means eating the same meal for dinner and the next-day’s lunch, but I personally don’t mind (I just have to make sure to have a variety of dinners). Plus I don’t waste any food, which works for me.

    24. SanguineAspect*

      Like many folks here have said, the cooking on Sundays for the week thing has always been REALLY helpful for me in the past (including things like snacks–dried fruit, nuts, cheese, etc. for when I’m on the go and can’t have a “real” meal).

      But since you like cooking, maybe more often than once a week, have you thought of trying one of those they-send-you-ingredients-you-cook things like Blue Apron or Hello Fresh? I did a trial of Hello Fresh (a friend had a coupon for a free box, so thought I’d try it). It was really fun and it was just enough food for two meals, without the waste of things that will go bad because you only needed 1 carrot but had to buy 6 for your recipe.

      1. LBK*

        Yeah, I did Plated for a while and really loved it because I enjoy cooking but I loathe meal planning and shopping. You definitely pay a premium for it, though.

    25. DCGirl*

      When I was single, I really benefited from a couple of “cooking for one or two” cookbooks that scaled recipes down to manageable sizes. If you google, you’ll find a bunch. I remember there was one that had scalloped potatoes for one (involving just one potato) — the normal recipe feeds an army.

      1. TC*

        I’ve become quite adept at reading a recipe and knowing how to half it because of cookbooks like that.

        To the OP — I can get quite fussy about lunch too, especially repeats. I try to buy the smallest portion of ingredients possible, so if I’m buying deli meat, yeah, you bet I’m only buy 3 or 4 slices or whatever. It must drive the deli guy nuts but it’s cut down on my food waste and I don’t get as weird about repeats because, oops, there’s no more ham left anyway. Sometimes it’s hard because grocery stores insist on portioning out fruit and veg for you, but persevere if you can!

        1. DCGirl*

          I still refer back to one of those cookbooks (the scalloped potato one got lost alone the way) and just double the recipes for me and my husband. If I cook a recipe that serves four, he’ll finish the pot. Cooking for exactly two is a form of portion control.

        2. Seuuze*

          You can also use the chopped items in the salad bar for stir-fried meals. It might cost a little more, but you save because you are cooking what you purchased for that meal and won’t have any leftover veggies for sometime later that could never happen and then you are throwing it out again.

    26. Master Bean Counter*

      Lunch sized freezer containers. When you cook all left over get portioned into lunch sizes and frozen. If it can’t be frozen then you take those for lunch first. I also keep a supply of frozen lunch bowls or single servng things like egg rolls in my freezer for the times when I don’t have left overs to bring in.

    27. ZSD*

      I bring just about the same thing for lunch every day, but I let myself go out for a cookie or donut in the afternoon a couple times a week. That’s a compromise on spending money, and it keeps me from feeling like I’m eating the same thing every day.

    28. AMPG*

      I gave up buying lunch out for Lent, which was the only thing that would get me to break the habit. I made an effort to switch things up so I wasn’t getting bored, plus it let me try out different types of lunch combos. One thing that I really liked was bringing a lot of small, easily packable components, so I didn’t have to spend a lot of time and effort putting together a “meal.” I usually had a granola bar or trail mix, some chips or crackers, some fruit or raw veggies, and a cookie or piece of chocolate, plus a protein of some kind. Favorite options:
      – Some of last night’s dinner, if available
      – Cheese cubes and crackers (or good bread, if I had been to the bakery)
      – Single-serving peanut butter cups and crackers
      – Canned soup (this wasn’t as great because I had to remember a dish and spoon – we don’t have a well-stocked kitchen)
      – Yogurt with mix-ins

      You could also try buying a smaller meal (like a half-sandwich or soup) and bringing food to round it out, which will cut costs.

      Hope that helps!

      1. Meg*

        Yes, this is similar to what I do, too! I usually have a small egg sandwich as the “main” part of my meal, then a bunch of snacks: string cheese, granola bar, chocolate, whole-grain crackers, carrot sticks, fruit, trail mix. Healthy and very easy to prep in the morning. You can mix and match the snacks for variety.

      2. Shark Whisperer*

        I do a similar thing to keep from getting bored of stuff I bring for lunch. I have a bento box and I’ll bring a sandwich or some other main and then lots of snacks. My go-to snacks are usually a fruit, olives, and peanut butter pretzels, but I switch it up from time to time to keep it interesting.

        I also have a monthly “I am weak and want to eat out anyways” budget. (There are lots of good places to eat around my office. The budget is pretty small, but it allows me to forgive myself if I do want to eat out. Also, if there are only a couple dollars left in the budget, I have to eat my lunch, but I can reward myself with a candy bar. (I do very well with rewarding myself).

      3. iseeshiny*

        Thirding this method – when my maternity leave ended I was pumping and nursing and was hungry constantly. I usually skip lunch but that was not an option, and I got sick of sancdwiches pretty quickly, so I started packing these massive bento-style lunches in a large tupperware with lots of little things that I prepped over the weekend:
        a boiled egg (already peeled! the only way I’ll really eat it, because I hate peeling eggs in the wild and not over a sink)
        string cheese
        trail mix
        cut marinated cucumbers (like fridge pickles but not so pickley)
        sliced bell peppers, carrots, or blanched broccoli and cauliflower with a small container of homemade buttermilk ranch
        sliced fruit

        I would just keep putting things in the tupperware until it was full and graze throughout the day. I got pretty into bentos after a while.

        2. Annie Moose*

          Ahhh, I love cucumbers in vinegar. It’s so delicious and very easy. For anyone who’s never done it, here’s my very precise recipe:

          1. Slice up a cucumber in thin slices and put them in a sealable container. (I like to peel them first, but you don’t have to.)
          2. Add a half-and-half mixture of vinegar and water. (I prefer to be on the dry side, so I just put in enough to moisten everything. If you like them spicier, just add less water.) Add a bit of sugar and a little pepper.
          3. Put the lid on and shake it like a Polaroid picture.
          4. ???
          5. Profit!

          If you let them sit a bit, they’ll be better, but they’re good even if you don’t have time to wait for that.

          1. Tmarie*

            Add onions and you have one of my favorite warm weather snacks! yummy vinegary cucumbers and onions.

      4. Seuuze*

        As a trying-to-be-environmentalist, I bring my own washable dishes to work. Dinner plate, salad plate, bowl and mug, silverware and an old cloth napkin too. I buy them at the second-hand store so I don’t care if they get broken.
        I sometimes bring a toasted cheese sandwich and heat it up in the toaster oven, if my workplace has one. Good with some soup.

    29. Spoonie*

      I tend to cook chicken in a generic way (find a seasoning mix you like and go to town) and then reuse it in a variety of ways. Make a salad then add chicken. Make chicken salad and eat it with crackers or celery or as a sandwich. Quesadilla with chicken and random veggies (sauteed spinach, onion, peppers, mushrooms). Chicken covered with a spinach, sundried tomato cream sauce. I’ll do the same thing with ground beef that I cooked with taco seasoning. Taco salad, actual tacos, quesadilla with taco beef, eggs with taco beef.

      As a single person household, I get your quandary. I’ve also taken to keeping a jar of spaghetti sauce and pouring it over spaghetti squash and other random veggies that I’ve roasted instead of actual pasta. It’s a matter of cooking a protein for the week and then foraging in my fridge to figure out what to do with it in a creative fashion. Some days I’m far more inventive than other days. Hence the prevalence of quesadillas and scrambled eggs in my diet.

      1. Seuuze*

        I will sometimes roast a bunch of veggies to eat during the week. I just roasted a whole head of cauliflower cut up and a bag of Brussels sprouts and cut up half a leftover onion. I tossed them with olive oil and garlic salt and cooked it all on sheet pan at 400 degrees until tender. With broccoli and cauliflower I will sometimes use a curry powder with the garlic salt. I eat them cold or warmed up.

    30. Tuckerman*

      As a former full-time worker part-time grad student. The solution might be to bring food some days, but also to try to find cheaper ways to eat out when you don’t bring food. The deli across the street from my job sells half-subs if you ask, for $4. And they are actually quite big. Or, I get a container of chicken salad for $3.50 and buy a banana and maybe keep a box of granola bars in my office. So instead of spending $8 on a sandwich from Panera, I aim to spend $4-5 on lunch.

    31. Sal*

      Ha, doing this now. I went from a work environment in a rapidly-gentrifying area of a well-known borough of a very large city (you probably know the one) with everything from awesome tacos and horchata to Shake Shack; to a work environment where my outside options are limited to about five, including 7-11 and Subway. I now bring lunch nearly every day of the week. I load up on interesting frozen stuff from Whole Foods and occasional TJ’s run staples because I can’t cook/have no time. Small office so there’s space in the freezer for me to keep some options. I occasionally bring leftovers or leftover takeout; sometimes do something like hard-boil some eggs in the AM or make a sandwich but it’s rare. Yesterday I swung by WF in the morning before work and just rounded up random stuff and ended up eating an entire container of stuffed grape leaves for lunch.

      It’s definitely the biggest downer of my move/job change, but I’m saving so much money!

    32. CBH*

      I do a lot of batch cooking when I cook. Then I save one batch to freeze in portion/ lunch size containers to use at a future dates.

    33. BRR*

      One thing I do is bring cheap microwave meals from Trader Joe’s. I’ll grab one and a yogurt and it’s much cheaper than eating out.

    34. msmorlowe*

      Sandwiches or wraps with the same base ingredients (e.g. cheese, lettuce, spinach, onion, tomato…etc, whatever, choose two) can be easily changed up by having different sauces–and the sauces will last much longer than the fresh ingredients, so you can use a different one each day without worrying that it will go off before you can finish it.

      When I pack lunches, I’ll usually rotate relish, pesto, and hummus (I’m not a fan of mustard or mayo, but they’re also long-lasting!). I’ll also buy different snacks to eat with it, so that’s always something new (a yoghurt, a protein bar, some biscuits, a chocolate bar…etc). I buy different ingredients per week–e.g. spinach one week, lettuce the next–and alternate buying sliced pan, soda bread, and wraps.

      I find I have to prepare and pack my lunch the night before–I put it all together in the lunch box then into the fridge ready for the morning. I know by now that I WILL NOT make a lunch in the morning, no matter how many times I tell myself I’ll ‘just get up ten minutes earlier’ (it will never happen). This usually takes me no more than 5 mins as part of my routine before going to bed, so it’s not a big time committment.

      I will also allot myself an exception day–that can be depending on your budget, but if you’re feeling stuck for choice, one day a fortnight or a week of buying your lunch might help you feel better without spending a fortune every day.

      Lastly, if possible, try eating your lunch in different places–boredom with what you’re eating can be compounded by always sitting in the same chair of the window-less break room–or taking a short walk outside after you finish eating if you can.

      Good luck!

    35. Turanga Leela*

      Four concrete things have helped me:
      1) Crock-pot recipes. I do stews, soups, etc and pack them up in single-serving containers, usually on top of vegetables (frozen broccoli works well) or rice.
      2) I have shelf-stable meals for when I don’t have anything prepped. I’ve fallen in love with Tasty Bite Indian food. When I don’t have anything prepped, I throw a pack or two of Tasty Bite into my bag along with an apple or granola bar.
      3) I have to make sure to bring enough food with me. When I buy my lunch, portions are big and it feels like I’m not eating a lot—e.g. I’ll have a burrito and nothing else—but in fact it’s a ton of food. When I pack my lunch and there are healthy stews and vegetables, the opposite happens. I feel like I’ve packed a lot, but I actually need to bring snacks for the day, like fruit, nuts, or carrot sticks. Which brings me to…
      4) Have backup food at work. There’s a Tasty Bite in my file drawer, along with several Lara bars and a mini-Tupperware of cashews. When I remember, I keep a pack of string cheese in the office fridge. That can get me through lunch in a pinch, and it also keeps me (usually) for going out to the coffee shop and getting a scone when I get snacky.

      1. Zathras*

        Seconding the backup food. I bring my lunch daily, but for a while found it was too easy to “forget” my lunch when I was busy/stressed/didn’t feel like making it. I would then end up spending far too much money on lunch out. Now I keep a couple of packages of ramen noodles in my desk – that hits the sweet spot of “this isn’t really what I want to be eating” but I don’t hate it, plus it’s easy to “cook” and clean up in our not-quite-a-kitchen. I keep some granola bars there too for relatively healthy snacking.

        This way I am able to hold myself to the standard of only buying lunch out when I really planned it that way – and as a bonus, when I do plan to get lunch out I don’t feel bad spending a little extra to get something I really want. (Nothing crazy, but springing for the $10 hot meal instead of the mediocre $6 sandwich.)

      2. Seuuze*

        At shcool and work, I used to keep crackers, nuts, dried fruit cans of tuna, granola bars and sometimes some Indian food packets from Trader Joe’s that didn’t require refrigeration and tea bags, and I kept some cheese in the fridge. It helped so much when I was pressed for time.

    36. yourdoc*

      I do the same lunch every day except for Friday, when I buy something. That helps me break up the boredom.

      For me, I bring a salad every day (lettuce, red cabbage, turkey, radish and bell pepper), yogurt, applesauce and cheese. This keeps waste to a minimum (the cabbage usually lasts two weeks if I get a big enough head). And then I look forward to Fridays when I can go out and get something totally different.

    37. Natalie*

      Something that helped me was not being too black & white about the whole thing. YMMV, but when I am trying to develop a habit I have to give myself a lot of permission to fail. Otherwise I will give up on the whole project the first time I slip up. So when I was similarly trying to develop the habit of bringing a lunch, I started with just bringing lunch two days a week.

      Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

      1. iseeshiny*

        +1 Applicable to like everything in my life, wish I’d figured it out in high school re:homework and projects

      2. Parenthetically*

        Yes! Yes! I periodically teach a class on meal planning and starting small is one of the things I talk about. Like, plan two meals a week. And then when you’re to the point that it’s pretty automatic to do that, take the next step. It’s how I went from being a person who planned zero meals ever and wasted tons of food and money to a person who plans six meals a week and wastes virtually nothing… over the course of about 5 years. Building new habits is hard, and every step in the right direction is something to be celebrated.

    38. theletter*

      I meal prep on Sundays, making individual salads for lunch and a big soup for dinners. Usually for the salads I can do a head of lettuce, some other vegetable (such as zucchini spirals, shredded red cabbage or chopped beets) chopped deli meat, shredded cheese, nuts, sun-dried tomatoes, and I’ll place one of those stuffed grape leaves into each tupperware. I mix it up over the weeks so I don’t get bored. I take the salad dressing and snacks in on Monday and leave it in the fridge until the end of the week. I find differentiating what I eat for lunch and dinner helps alleviate boredom. Also, I only make four salads per week at most, so I have one day to eat out as a treat.

      Making the salads is a bit of a chore but I’m getting faster at it. If I’m really lazy I’ll take more shortcuts (pre-cut lettuce and vegetables) and it’s still worth it in terms of money saved, food comas avoided, etc.

    39. Artemesia*

      I don’t like sandwiches and so what I did was to plan meals at home with leftovers I would like for lunch. We always had microwave access so spaghetti, or a rice casserole or whatever worked great for me. If you live alone, having the idea that you are making lunch as well as dinner might be motivating to go to the effort of making something more complicated. Another thing I did was buy a carton of frozen sausage biscuits — I know this is not the healthiest meal ever, but if I didn’t have anything else at hand, I could toss a two pack of sausage biscuits into the bag with a yogurt and fruit and have a lunch I would eat. I also kept a few low call frozen entrees in the freezer so again, I could take one to work if I didn’t have a better option. They are MUCH cheaper than buying lunch.

      My husband spent huge amounts on lunch over the year. For him it was just an essential part of a pleasant work life and so it was money he was willing to spend. I didn’t enjoy that kind of lunch all that much and so was happy to save those hundreds a year by bringing lunch.

    40. Alex*

      I prepare meals during the weekend, specifically for lunch. I personally don’t mind eating the same thing every day for a week as long as it is something tasty, but you could also make 2 different things and alternate days.

      You don’t have to stick to sandwiches, unless you don’t have any way to heat up a meal at work. Some things I bring include:

      Burritos or burrito bowls
      Pasta dishes
      Spicy rice and beans
      Fancy salads with filling things like avocado, boiled eggs, chicken, chickpeas, etc.
      Meat or veggie burgers (I cook ahead of time, bring a bun and toppings separately and heat up the burger in the microwave with some cheese)
      Homemade pizzas
      Chili

      Many of these things also freeze well, so you could gradually get into the habit of making a large batch of something and freezing it in single servings, and then pulling them out when you need them.

      For example, the first week you might make something that makes six servings, and freeze 3, and eat 3 that week (and eat out two days).

      The next week, make another thing that makes six servings, eat three, and eat one from last week, and eat out one day.

      The next week, make another thing that makes six servings, eat three, and one each from the weeks before. Etc.

      It does take a little organization and planning (and remembering to actually bring it to work!) but not all that much time, since each week you just cook one dish.

    41. lifeguard272*

      I have a food box subscription – so each week, I get a box delivered with 3 different meal recipes, and the ingredients for 2 servings. I tend to eat one for dinner, and pack the second serving (or third – some of the servings are huge!) for lunch the next day. I literally never have food waste from these. It’s definitely not cheaper than homemaking everything, but I’m never eating the same meals, which is nice!

    42. Thlayli*

      Ham and cheese sandwiches every day is all I can manage! But Pre sliced everything and it takes 1 minute a day to make.

    43. GG*

      I’ve waffled back and forth for years between phases of buying lunch every day, then getting the motivation to make and bring from home for a while, then losing motivation and going back to buying. Finally I realized the problem for me wasn’t eating the same things all the time, but always having to make tomorrow’s lunch.

      About nine months ago I finally hit on the perfect solution for me. I’ve been making batches of meals that are semi-homemade remixes of various pre-prepared frozen and canned meals and vegetables. Each of my “recipes” makes anywhere from 2 to 6 servings. So when my freezer starts to get a bit empty, I make up a batch of something I’m low on or out of. Then every morning I play the “what do I feel like for lunch?” game and grab something.

      I always have at least three different meals to choose from. I’ve gotten good at noticing when I’m getting low and being sure to make new stuff before I’m completely out. So there hasn’t yet been a day that I absolutely had to make something for the next day but I had no energy to do so.

      BTW, when I get to work I don’t put my lunch for the day in the fridge. I leave it out in my office to defrost. By the time lunchtime rolls around cold meals are ready to eat and hot meals only take 2-3 minutes in the microwave.

    44. Gingerblue*

      I’ve found Japanese bento-specific cookbooks useful; they often have tips for making lunch prep easier and faster, ideas for quick and easy sides, easy recipe ideas, how to batch prep and freeze things, etc. If you get bored with food easily, they’re often really good at suggesting how to make complicated-looking and fun lunches with way less effort than you’d think. I really like Makiko Itoh’s Just Bento cookbook, which emphasizes variety with low fuss. (A lot of her recipes turn out to be three or four-ingredient versions of things, like a stir-fry, that in another book would be way more complicated.) The mindset and prep tips are even better than the actual recipes. Megumi Fujii’s Ten-Minute Bento is also good, though I use that one less. (Also, there are whole communities of people dedicated to showing off their tasty lunches. If you need inspiration, they’re not a bad place to browse! Check out the Mr. Bento group on flickr, for inatance.)

      For the easiest options, though, maybe look for a basic idea you can drsss up in various ways? A sandwich is a classic packed lunch for a reason: easy, fast, and with a couple of fillings on hand, you can make a bunch of variations on the same basic idea. Salads are good for this: wash and chop enough vegetables to act as a base, then add different dressings and toppings. Rice with toppings (rice and beans, rice and curry, rice and stir-fry, fried rice, rice with kimchi; rice + stuff is the foundation of a lot of bentos); soup and a roll (buy a couple of boxed soups and a couple different rolls or muffins for the week; portion out 5 lunches worth of soup and freeze the rest for later); and so on.

      I’m also single, and run into the same issues with using stuff up. It’s hard, especially if you need variety. If you find a way to make the process fun, I do think that helps–a cute bento box made more of a difference for me than I’d expected. If you’re actively looking forward to lunch, you’re more likely to get into the habit of packing it.

    45. SophieChotek*

      I am like you – I hate leftovers (I can usually only eat something one time, except for some random dishes that I love), I live alone and have a very busy schedule, so I often eat on the run or eat at my desk — eating an early dinner at my day job or as soon as I get to my evening job. But I also want to cut down out eating fast food or just going out or even grabbing things at the deli.

      Lots of other people have suggested great things (freezing, storing, etc.)

      Here are two different suggestions:

      This works for me (and might sound weird)- I can eat the same thing day after day if its kind of boring and tasteless? I don’t really like yogurt or banana, but I don’t have think about them, I find them filling enough, and they are healthy. So I eat plain or vanilla yogurt pretty much every morning for breakfast and I often eat a banana and an apple for dinner. I’d say about 75% of the time, during the work week, this what I have for breakfast and dinner. Sometimes I get a little more variety in for lunch.

      I don’t actively “hate” yogurt or vanilla but I would never order them on a menu or enthuse about them, but they are easy to carry, etc.

      Do you have a neighbor or family member that also cooks? Could you do an exchange? Sometimes if I make too much of something and now i won’t eat it, I give it to my mom (we live about 20 mins apart) and she often will give me something different, so then we’re both happy.

    46. KellyK*

      It might be that you’re going from all to nothing too quickly, not being able to sustain it, and that feels like failure. If you eat out 5 days a week, and your overall goal is to pack a lunch 90 or 95% of the time (leaving a little slack for special occasions or even just forgetting), then packing a lunch once or twice a week is a step closer to your goal. It’s also worth taking a step back to figure out what the real purpose of that goal is. Is it saving money? Is it eating healthier (and if so, for what definition of “healthy”)? Is it not taking a long lunch break and getting home earlier? Maybe a combination of multiple goals?

      I bring my lunch most days, and while it is often leftovers from dinner, I also try to keep my freezer stocked with frozen meals. Most grocery stores have most of an aisle devoted to them, so you can probably get a decent variety. You can also alternate them with sandwiches or salads.

      If you’ve got time to cook on weekends, making and freezing lunches can be helpful. I’ve cooked up a bunch of chicken and a bunch of rice or pasta, then just varied the sauce and the veggies to come up with different meals. Again, you can alternate these with sandwiches, salads, and frozen meals.

      Another thing I do that reduces the amount of eating out that I do is to keep a stash of snacks at work. It might be anything from Wheat Thins to cookies, and I jokingly refer to it as my zombie apocalypse food hoard. It means that if I didn’t pack enough for lunch, I’m not ordering pizza at 2 PM because I’m hungry. It might also be a good way to add some variety to your lunches, by keeping a couple different kinds of chips or canned fruit or beef jerky or any number of things.

      1. KellyK*

        And, yes, meal planning for one is really annoying. One thing that can help, depending on space and the kind of thing you’re cooking, is to only buy fresh produce when the recipe specifically needs it, and buy it right when you’re going to use it. Like, obviously a caprese salad needs fresh tomatoes and basil. But dried basil and canned tomatoes are just fine in a pasta sauce. I think some cookbooks have recommendations for things you should keep in your pantry to be able to cook a lot of different things. That helps with both the variety and the food waste.

        1. Annie Moose*

          Something that I’ve been trying to get in the habit of is buying stuff only when I need it–I have a nice small Aldi on the way home from work, and because it’s so small without too many choices, it’s incredibly easy for me to just run in, pick up one or two things on my way home from work. I never thought I’d love a tiny grocery store, but it actually is fantastic for this purpose! (plus, Aldi is cheap enough that I don’t feel guilty about tossing unused stuff)

    47. Michelenyc*

      I definitely have. Like a lot of others I do some meal prep on Saturday and Sunday. I am a pretty clean eater and rarely eat any thing that is processed. I even make my own veggie burgers once a month. I highly recommend writing a meal for the week. At first it might seem like it takes awhile but once it becomes a habit it’s easy to crank it out in like 10 minutes. Instant grocery list. On Sunday I make whatever grain I plan to use for the week usually short grain brown rice or quinoa, I don’t use canned beans so I also cook a pot of beans to use during the week ( you will need to soak the beans overnight) depending on the bean it takes them about 30-45 minutes for them to cook. Lentils you don’t have to soak overnight and they cook in about 30 minutes. While everything is cooking I make whatever salad dressing/dip I plan to use. The blender bottles that people use for smoothies are great for storing dressings. For my daily dressing I use a spice bottle. Sometimes I make raw steel cut oats to have for breakfast. If you make a raw version you will need to soak them over night. If you can afford it right now invest in an awesome blender. It will save you so much time with meal prep for the week. i am obsessed with my Vitamix. It takes me about 10 minutes in the morning or the night before to pack my what is usually a salad for work. i think we all skip meals sometimes what has helped me from becoming hangry is keeping a few protein bars in my bag or desk. I really like to cook so I could probably go on forever with ideas!

      2. an anon*

        Overnight oats are really convenient. Just toss oats and water or (dairy or nondairy milk) into a watertight container and stick in the fridge overnight. As Michelenyc mentioned they are raw, but you can microwave them for breakfast and lunch if you’d prefer to have them warm. And you can amend it however you’d like–sweet or savory (if you google “savory oatmeal recipes” there are a ton). I like sweet oatmeal with nuts and seeds so I put in things like walnuts, chia seeds, flax seeds, oat bran, peanut butter, and/or flaked almonds along with diced mango, raisins, jam/preserves, nutella, berries (frozen right from the bag is fine), and/or a touch of maple syrup.

    48. TL -*

      I like to bring stuff that I can self-assemble at work (so that I can add/subtract as needed) and also I have a day of the week where I eat out (Friday is sushi day, yum!!!) so that helps a lot – there’s less pressure to bring in food every day. Start with 1-3 days a week bringing food in and build up from there.

    49. Liz2*

      I mix it up. Leftover often become tomorrow’s lunch, but sometimes I go to a cafeteria and sometimes I drive out.

      I’d say start the big crock pot with frozen mini meal leftover process. Then you can just grab and go.

    50. Marzipan*

      What has worked well for me is doing a once-a-week cook of something that I can divide into portions. Bonus points if I do it by slinging a bunch of ingredients into the slow cooker and ignoring them for a few hours. Things like soup/stew, a curry, a pasta bake, cottage pie, whatever. I just do that on a Sunday, parcel it up, and stuck it in the fridge. (If you’d get bored of the same thing every day, freeze a few portions and then over a few weeks you can build up a variety of things).

      Also great are those noodle pots where you bung some cooked noodles, some cooked protein of whatever kind, and some vegetables into a jar, add some sort of flavouring (miso paste, chilli sauce etc) and then add hot water at work. Again, you can make several and fridge them.

      1. Marzipan*

        Oh – and, the food waste thing: again, this is where making soups and stews is your friend. I literally make ‘bottom of the fridge soup’ from whatever is going to be wasted otherwise. It’s easy to do, and means very little goes in the bin.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Am chuckling.. I do this, too. I am told I never make the same soup twice. Poor family member asked me the recipe for one soup and believed I was sandbagging when I said, “There isn’t a recipe.” I then explained.

    51. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Batch cooking has saved my life. I aim to prepare 5 portions of anything I make, and if I want variety, I make five portions apiece of a few different things, and freeze all but 2 or 3 meals. It’s way easier than trying to cook single portions, and means I don’t have to think about it during the week.

    52. Lazy Cat's Mom*

      I’m a lot lazier than these folks who prep ahead. I’ll do that sometimes but other times I try to just keep simple staples with me at the office. I’ll keep a couple baking potatoes, avocados and garlic salt at my desk. I’ll mix the avocado with garlic salt for a simple guacamole and put it on top of a nuked potato. This works with sweet potatoes too.
      Cans of tuna and soup are also easy to keep around. I’ve actually purchased a special bowl with a lid that makes heating the soup in the microwave easy. And to further the lazy, I’ll get the heavy non-perishables delivered by Amazon or a local delivery service.

    53. Blue_eyes*

      There is already lots of great practical advice on the details of packing lunches here, so I’ll add a big picture comment. You seem to be framing it as bringing lunch every day vs. buying lunch every day. It seems like bringing lunch every day is probably not feasible for you right now, so maybe start with a smaller goal. For now, it could be bring lunch 2 days per week. Once you’ve done that successfully for a few weeks, add one more “bring lunch” day per week. It won’t feel like a massive change all at once, and you won’t feel like you’ve slipped up when you buy lunch some days. I’ve found the following breakdown helpful for me:

      3 days/week – Make and bring lunch
      1 day/week – bring frozen meal (Lean Cuisine, etc. – the tamales from Trader Joe’s are awesome for this)
      1 day/week – buy lunch

      This helps me by giving me a choice of when to use the buy lunch day, and giving me one day (frozen lunch day) where I don’t have to plan or think about it, but I’m not spending as much as buying lunch out.

    54. Elizabeth West*

      These are all great ideas. I like sweet potatoes, but they take 6-8 minutes in the microwave to cook, depending on how big they are. Instead of hogging the oven at work, you can partially cook one at home and put it in the fridge overnight. Then when you are at work, pop it in for a few minutes and it’s done. You can do it with regular potatoes too. It’s not quite like a baked potato, but still good for lunch. :)

      I also go to Walmart and get those packages of portion cups with lids (the kind dressing or dipping sauce comes in with take-out meals), put a little butter in one for my potato, and throw it in my lunch box. Or use it for dressing if I made a salad.

    55. PatPat*

      I just bring the same thing every day for lunch. I have variety for dinner every night but for lunch it doesn’t bother me to have the same thing all the time and it’s super easy. I make my lunches for the week on Monday because the thing I eat for lunch lasts in the refrigerator that long so I only have to think about making my lunch one day a week.

    56. Elisabeth*

      I’m in the process of becoming a daily lunch buyer (my old job paid for my lunches, actually) and a lunch bringer. Prepping stuff the night before is essential, although I can see how night school can make that a challenge.

      One thing that can help is that you don’t need to conform to a proper idea of what “lunch” is. If it’s just a random assembly of tasty and nutritious things, that’s all that matters! I often am more of an “assembler” than a cook. A chickpea salad with tons of veggies, or just a weird assortment of things I like. (Some cheese! And separately, some veggies! And separately, my favorite juice!). Also, bring snacks.

      I wish I could get into freezing stuff – I’m not there yet…

    57. tw*

      I usually make “fancier” sandwiches, like apple turkey and brie on a fancy bread
      costs a little more, but it keeps me from buying a more expensive one

      also, making twice as much for dinner and then bringing it for lunch the next day

    58. Sara*

      I changed from eating a full lunch, to snacking throughout the day. I have three different kinds of trail mixes and a box of granola bars in my desk (so variety) and I bring some sort of fruit (usually an apple because there’s zero prep). I don’t eat lunch at a usual time every day, I just eat some snacks when I’m hungry.

    59. Mine Own Telemachus*

      I do a few things to keep it interesting:

      1. Cook it the night before, rather than the Sunday before. That way I *probably* won’t be bored of it by noon the next day.
      2. Vary my lunch containers—I have several different ones I rotate through so I’m not like, “Aw crap now I gotta wash this thing to use it tomorrow” and procrastinate.
      3. Switch between things that can be heated up and things eaten cold. A couple of days a week I bring sandwiches. The rest of the week is pasta/meat/sauce or rice and beans—things that keep well and can be heated easily.
      4. Switch up the utensils I’m using. I purposefully bring in things that can be eaten with chopsticks (I have a reusable pair) so it doesn’t physically *feel* like I’m eating the same boring thing every day.

      Any leftovers can be stored easily and eaten for dinner in a couple of days! Saves me money and makes lunch way easier.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I bought doubles of everything I use for lunch for this reason. There days where I just don’t feel like washing the lunch containers.

    60. super anon*

      I was the same way until recently. I started cooking meals because I was getting bored of eating out constantly and decided “I am bad at cooking” was no longer a valid excuse for what was really my own laziness.

      I don’t cook specific meals for work, I always bring whatever left overs I have to eat for lunch. If I don’t have left overs that day I’ll make overnight oats the night before to bring for lunch. I’ve also made it a priority to have a well-stocked pantry and freezer to give me less of an excuse to be lazy and decide to eat out rather than cooking.

      Some tips:

      – I buy meat in bulk at Cost-Co and freeze it because $100 of meat will last me and my boyfriend meals for a month. Also because meat is heavy and having to carry it to my apartment every grocery trip can be difficult.

      – I only make easy recipes from sites like Budget Bytes that are low effort and low cost, but till tasty. I especially like doubling a recipe and freezing it so I will have food for days when I really don’t want to do anything. When I lived alone and was cooking for myself I wouldn’t cook meals every night and this method worked really well to ensure variety in my diet.

      – I bought an instant pot. It makes cooking things that are usually difficult so much faster and easier to enjoy. I make chilli, stews, soups, roasts, ribs, etc in it really easily. I also like using it to hard boil a lot of eggs at once to take to work during the week for breakfasts.

      – In terms of getting off my butt and deciding to cook something for myself, it’s been really helpful to have a well stocked pantry. Because I freeze meat, tomato paste, stewed fruit for topping yogurt, etc and have rice, beans, lentils, pasta and tons of canned items like tomatoes and tuna on standby the only items I ever really have to buy to make something are fresh veggies and bread.

      – Packaging food up into ready to go containers after it is cooked is also incredibly helpful. I keep my lunch bag and items by the door so I can quickly pack myself a meal and be ready to go in no time. Having everything pre-portioned and labelled makes it a lot faster to grab and go in the morning.

    61. The Other Liz*

      The food boredom is for real! I struggle with this too. My strategy is: freeze lunch-sized portions for the future, and they’re there in a pinch. I also rely heavily on proteiny snacks, prepackaged, to keep on hand for days with evening activities. When I have evening choir rehearsal, I always throw a cashew larabar in my bag with my music folder. I also find mandarin oranges to be the one fruit I can eat daily without getting sick of it. Soon I’ll get tired of it but I’ll ride the wave while it lasts.

      I also really like having a different dip on hand each week: homemade simple hummus, or store bought tzaziki, and carrot sticks keep for a long time in the fridge… and Trader Joes has good frozen naan. Pita is also SO SIMPLE to make from scratch. I try to buy things that are healthy AND don’t go bad quickly, so that they fit in with my food boredom tendencies.

      1. The Other Liz*

        The other thing that’s made my life a bit easier: someone at work started a soup group for Tuesdays and a salad group for Wednesdays. Once every 8 weeks, I bring in homemade soup and heat it in the office kitchen crock pot for 10 people. The other 7 Tuesdays my lunch is made for me! Same thing on Wednesdays, but with salad. It also helped people get out from behind their desks and get to know coworkers a bit more!

    62. Dead Quote Olympics*

      Yes, and very recently. Since my closest “easy lunch out” is the Whole Foods hot/cold bar, I have been SHOCKED (although not surprised) by the hundreds of dollars I’ve saved per month just by staying out of there.

      For a fast recap, since so many others have covered the ground:

      Freezer, freezer, freezer. I usually try and have at least two kinds of soups and a couple of other good leftover single meal portions in the freezer. Soup making is a weekend activity, sometimes I’ll make two pots of different kinds.

      Mason jar salads. I’ve found a few recipes that I really like and have them in heavy rotation. I either make the whole salad on the weekend, or since I like salads for main meals anyway, I cut up cukes, carrots, radishes, romaine lettuce, etc. and store them separately (in mason jars) in the refrigerator so I can make a really fast salad. Storing vegetables and lettuce in glass containers makes them last much, much longer.

      Meal planning. I like the app Mealboard, because it allows you to store recipes and scale them to the desired number of portions, and then generate a shopping list.

      Readymade simmer sauces, marinades, seasoning — don’t make me think about the hard stuff, which is seasoning! I’m a sucker for those pouches from Frontera Grill, various indian food sauces, fancy pasta sauces, etc. Throw your protein and vegetables in, put it on top of pasta/rice/couscous/cauliflower rice/ and freeze multiple portions.

      All those techniques are built around an easy morning — the ability to open my lunch bag, throw something in it with no prep, and leave. The other ingredient is commitment. I’m now rather competitive about it — it’s morphed from “take my lunch every day for this entire week” to “don’t go grocery shopping unless you really can’t find something to make a meal with tonight.” It’s made me actually eat a wider variety of food because if I bought sweet potatoes, by god I’m going to eat them.

      Other secret weapons that assemble in various ways: varieties of chicken sausage, couscous, cooked shrimp, tuna pouches, smoked salmon (the non-lox kind), goat cheese and feta crumbles, cashews.

      Good luck!

    63. Sara*

      At my office we have a ton of fridge space (2 full-size fridges for 25ish people), so what I do is bring all my lunch for the week on Mondays. Almost always, it’s a salad mix, some chopped other veggies (peppers/broccoli etc), some sort of protein (smoked tofu has been my favourite lately), and then each day just make up a big salad. Sometimes I’ll do wraps, or during the winter I’d make a big thing of soup and bring to work. I don’t have a lot of containers or fridge space at home, so bringing everything to work at once means I don’t have to worry about that. And also I only have to think about lunches once a week. Might not be workable for everyone, depending on your kitchen space, but it’s been an amazing solution for me.

    64. Badmin*

      I have the same exact problem and can totally relate to the school at night being an issue. I don’t know what your work set up is but I will go shopping on my lunch break at Trader Joes, stock up on their very affordable frozen stuff and keep it in the freezer at work. That way when I want to eat out it’s there and harder to turn down. I also keep sandwich stuff at work.

      I also keep snacks, like those little snack kit things that have cheese, a dried fruit and a nut and they are surprisingly filling/hold me over. You can really just make them yourself too.

      I like to cook as well so will sometimes have leftovers but are such a pain to bring into work on the subway/bus.

      I’ve never tried meal planning but would like to and seems like a good solution.

    65. meat lord*

      If I feel less drained than usual/have grocery shopped, I’ll make a big batch of food. But what I’ve started doing, because even cooking ahead of time for the week often seems prohibitively difficult, is buying easy-prep items that can be mix-and-matched into a meal as I run out the door.

      Example: individual-size containers of instant rice, a big freezer bag of microwaveable pork buns & and another freezer bag teriyaki meatballs, plus a few veggies & granola bars, have been my go-to this week. I have my rice as a base, some meatballs or pork buns to go with, and maybe some carrots, a banana, a Clif bar, whatever. Takes about three minutes to throw each day’s assortment into my bag as I get ready for work, and about three minutes to cook in the office microwave.

    66. JBeane*

      Fellow singleton, converted lunch bringer here:

      One thing that really hung me up is that I used to buy fresh veggies, which would often go back before I had a chance to use them all up. Frozen veggies have changed my life. Not only are they easy to prepare in single or double portion servings, but they got me into the habit of prepping different food groups separately, and then making quick dishes in different combinations to stave off boredom.

      For example, this week I had some rice, chicken, and veggies. I prepped the rice and chicken separately with minimal spice, to start. Then on various days I use these in combo with various frozen veggies to make arroz con pollo, ginger chicken stir fry, etc. The same base ingredients have different flavors depending on what spices and cooking methods are used, and no meal took longer than 15 minutes to prepare.

    67. Lady Bug*

      I despise meal prep for the week, sorry weekends are for relaxing and doing necessary chores like laundry. occasionally I will make a batch of soup or sauce, but mostly I do bagged salad or premade Trader Joe’s salad. Frozen meals are good too.

      1. hermit crab*

        Oh yeah, if what you are going to do otherwise is buy takeout, then frozen meals give you convenience plus cost savings – even for the sort of higher-end ones (at least, compared to lunch takeout prices in the expensive neighborhood where my office is). I ate a lot of frozen Amy’s meals when I was working and going to grad school full-time. They’re better than some takeout! Just make sure to label them if you keep them in the office freezer.

    68. hermit crab*

      I’m late to this thread, and what I’m going to describe will not work for most people in most situations, but I thought I’d throw it out there! Some of my coworkers and I have a lunch club at the office. We have around 4-5 people participating in a given week, and everyone signs up in advance to bring in lunch for the group. So the first person brings lunch on Monday, the second person brings lunch on Tuesday, and so on.

      It takes some coordination, but if you have a group of coworkers with similar tastes who all like batch-cooking, it can be AWESOME. I cook once a week but have a different home-cooked vegetarian (!) lunch every day, vs. before when I ate the same reheated beans and rice every day for (what felt like) years on end.

    69. emma2*

      A good alternative I have found to meal prepping is “ingredient prepping”, where instead of preparing entire meals, I take a couple of hours during the weekend to prepare sides that take more time than I would like on a weekday (like chopping and boiling vegetables, steaming rice, boiling pasta, making sauces, etc.) Then I mix them in different ways throughout the week. This works really well for salads – just chop up a bunch of ingredients on the weekend and through them together in different varieties for your lunches.

    70. Elan Morin Tedronai*

      So I cook lunch and bring it to work Mondays through Thursdays, and treat myself to something nicer on Fridays. I’ve been doing this since I started working in July 2015, so… I guess my case kind of counts? :)
      That said, I wake up early to cook during those times.

      A large portion of the advice here is for you to do batch cooking (i.e. cook and freeze enough for 5 days on Sunday), but from what I can tell you get bored of eating the same thing every day. In that case, would you be able to plan a menu for a week, then get common ingredients for them? E.g. What I do is that I plan out what I want to eat for the week (normally one pasta, 2 stir-fries and a sandwich/salad) then try to arrange it in such a way that each of them share common ingredients – for this week a couple of common ingredients for me are kale and zucchini, which I’m prepping in a few different ways. It also helps if you can set things up a few days in advance.

  4. Cover Letters*

    I am currently applying to jobs and am going on a 10-day vacation that starts next Sunday. I will not have cell service during this time, but will have limited access to email (except for a three-day stretch where I will be completely off the grid). Should I mention something like this in my cover letter? There are a few jobs that have application deadlines 1-3 days before I leave for my trip. Should I mention that I will only have access to email, and that it may be limited during the trip dates? How would you word that appropriately? I do not want to come off as presumptuous, but I think I am well-qualified for these jobs and do not want to leave them hanging should they want to move me along in the process.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I wouldn’t necessarily mention it in the cover letters, but I would set up an auto-responder for your email and also maybe change your outgoing voicemail greeting to indicate that you are on a trip without service, but will be checking email as you’re able. And give your email address so that people can reach you that way.

    2. Gwen Soul*

      I changed my VM message temporarily to let people know to email me when i was in a similar position. As for wording, maybe ” I am excited to speak more about the role, please note I will not have phone access from (DATE) to (DATE) but will be checking (EMAIL) daily.

      2. Bozo*

        Unless people from your current job would try to email or phone you, then they are greeted with a VM or autoreply that says you are excited about talking further about the job opportunity….maybe a generic statement about your availability is best.

  5. Tiffany*

    I’m looking at a pretty strong possibility that I’m going to need major surgery (brain) soon. I work for a small non-profit that barely offers medical insurance, and definitely does have any kind of short-term/long-term disability insurance that would help cover lost wages while I deal with that. We don’t get sick days and our PTO is minimal (nor do I really want to be forced to use up all of my vacation time to recover from surgery).

    I’ve been told it’s possible to get short-term/long-term disability insurance as an individual….but where do I even start? Does anyone have any recommendations? What questions should I be asking? I had it once through an employer but never had to use it….so I’m just really uncertain about it all. Any insight y’all can give would be very much appreciated.

    1. paul*

      If your surgery is soon is doubtful you’ll be able to get that type of insurance set up and active before hand :/ I know ours required something like 60 or 90 days before you were eligible and it couldn’t be for a pre-existing condition.

      1. Tiffany*

        If it happens, it’ll need to be soon, but it’s not so dire that I can’t wait out the grace period or whatever.

        1. Jessesgirl72*

          You probably won’t be eligible at all. Not without committing fraud.

          My husband has MS, and so we always carry it for him. He didn’t have to disclose anything/pass a physical in order to qualify for the new plan when he signed up at his latest job It was explicit that signing up at any other time would mean he’d have to pass a physical and disclose his full medical history.

    2. NW Mossy*

      There are companies that sell it (my own employer is one, although I don’t work in that division), but these policies typically require medical underwriting. I’m assuming that you already have a diagnosis, and that’ll have to be disclosed in your application. As a result, if they’re willing to underwrite you (not a given, depending upon the severity of your situation), the premiums will likely be so expensive that it doesn’t really net you much.

      Wish I had a more positive response!

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Oh, I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. It’s outrageous that a health emergency can wreck such havoc on your financial and professional life.

      Unfortunately, private disability insurance has exclusions for pre-existing conditions and usually has a (long) wait period. I’m not sure it will give you what you need. :(

      (I’m not remotely an expert on this; I’ve just looked into it a bit after my employer eliminated our short-term disability benefit.)

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        You don’t even need to go to AAM. There ARE crowdfunding sources specifically for medical problems, or sites set up where you’re getting loans from individuals, and not banks. We looked at all the possibilities when looking at how to fund IVF/Surrogacy.

    5. Memyselfandi*

      Your state may have some programs. Mine has temporary disability insurance and temporary caregiver insurance programs that people can take advantage of. Check with your department of labor or human services.

      1. LQ*

        I would look into this. Also check around for nonprofits that may be able to help you out during this time.

    6. K*

      You should ask your doctor, or the hospital you will have surgery at, if they can connect you with a social worker. Social workers affiliated with hospitals can be great resources for these types of issues and will be able to connect you with the right government programs and explain your options.

    7. Artemesia*

      You aren’t going to be able to get disability insurance for a condition you currently have. You are going to have to bite the bullet on PTO here.

        1. SCAnonibrarian*

          Can you financially swing unpaid leave? My job has decent but not amazing leave, and we regularly have staff ‘on medical leave’ who just aren’t getting paid: they’re just taking approved unpaid leave that they cleared with Admin and HR beforehand. If you can take the financial hit to keep your job open to you, you could ask to use unpaid leave for all the prep and pre-surgery appointments? That way you can save your PTO for the procedure and recovery as much as possible, and then revert back to more unpaid leave until you’re able to return to work.
          Some companies are really good about this, and some apparently are not, but if they do agree, be sure to get it in writing.

          1. Tiffany*

            I could get the leave, I just can’t afford it. I work Tues-Sat, so I’ve been planning all my doctor appointments for my day off on Monday. I don’t make much (about 30k/year, non-salary) and don’t live in a town that’s super affordable (more affordable than the surrounding metro area, but still pricey) + started my own business last year…needless to say, my savings are pretty much gone and there’s no way I can go more than 1 or 2 days without pay.

            1. Natalie*

              Since you said upthread you can put it off for a few months, I think you’re going to need to spend those Mondays beating the bushes for social services, government services, whatever you can find that will provide some help during your time off. Save whatever you can. Maybe pick up some gig-economy type side gigs outside of work hours, and save the money?

              I’m sorry. This really sucks.

    8. fposte*

      Ugh, sorry; that really sucks. I know it’s not pay, but is FMLA in the picture at all? Or is there also going to have to be a conversation about leave with with your work?

      (One reason I mention it is that if you do take FMLA, your employer is allowed to require you to use PTO concurrently.)

      1. Tiffany*

        We’re small enough that FMLA isn’t a thing for us. I’m not too concerned about not being able to get time off…but I’m not in a situation where I can afford to miss work for even a couple days without pay, and I’m looking at probably a minimum of a couple weeks of being off completely, and then several weeks of ‘working as much as I can but it probably won’t amount to 40 hours’.

        1. SCAnonibrarian*

          Just saw your response to fposte- that sucks. Can you ask HR if they have any procedure for employees donating PTO to other people? Even if it wouldn’t be enough (small company) to totally clear it, any little bit is better than nothing?

          1. Tiffany*

            We don’t have an HR department. We only have about 10 staff members and the organization has a whole is kind of a dysfunctional mess. There is no policy or procedure for something like that, nor do I think my co-workers would donate even if they could (honestly, can’t blame them, we don’t get much to start with).

    9. FiveWheels*

      I have no practical advice but years ago I had a life threatening neurological condition. I’m now fully recovered, but I lost my job and it took many years to get my career back on track. So you have my absolute sympathy and well wishes.

    10. Mug*

      I swear I don’t work for Aflac! But I would highly recommend looking into their additional insurance. It’s super cheap (like, $5 a week) and they give you cash for so many different things. When my brother was forced to not work for two weeks because of an injury, Aflac really came through for him.

      1. Tiffany*

        I talked to them actually, ’cause it was the only thing I knew of. It wouldn’t cover the situation I’m in.

    11. an anon*

      I don’t think individual STD/LTD will be an option for you as they usually require a physical. CA, HI, NJ, and NY offer state STD programs but most states do not.

      That said, look around your community for advocacy programs that may help you get hooked up to city, county, state or federal programs that might help you out.

      If you are part of a faith community (or even if you aren’t) your local place of worship may be able to help.

      Depending on your diagnosis there may be local or national organizations that are focused on helping people in your situation.

    12. PollyQ*

      Two (inexpert) thoughts:

      1) You may be eligible for State Disability benefits, even though you’re still employed, since your company won’t be paying you.

      2) Depending on how long you can put off the operation, is it possible that you could find a new job with better benefits that would cover you? I’m not sure how the pre-existing condition or any possoble waiting period would figure into this. Any HR experts that can comment?

      1. Natalie*

        Pre-existing conditions are not a factor with employer provided health or disability benefits (or life insurance, but only if you sign up within a specific time period). This is a requirement of ERISA, so it’s not at risk regardless of what happens with the ACA.

        1. Company benefits*

          Some employer disability policies require you to work for 6 months to 12 months prior to making a claim – even if they cover pre-existing conditions – if you did not have a previous continuous disability insurance. They don’t want you to go out on disability on your first week or month of work for a pre-existing condition. So, make sure you read the policy if you change jobs.

    13. ThumbTypist*

      I am so sorry. This is awful.

      If you know you need surgery, I expect this is already in your medical record. Which means a private insurer likely will not sell you insurance. I feel for you; I am completely uninsurable in the private market (except health, due to ACA).

      If you are symptom-free and able to wait it out, I’d think about job hunting now. If not, I agree with other posters…start researching state aid programs.

      I’m sorry. I hope it works out ok.

  6. Need a new job*

    What are some legitimate job sites you use to find work from home jobs?

    Thank you everyone!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      FlexJobs is a good one. You have to pay for a subscription, but the leads are all legit.

        1. kmb213*

          Seconding FlexJobs. It was a huge time-saver and well worth the money for me. (My circumstances wound up changing and I wound up in a traditional office environment, but the listings there were all legit.)

    2. Pwyll*

      I imagine this will get stuck in moderation, so I’ll list in another comment. But We Work Remotely and Working Nomads have been pretty awesome IMO.

        1. Pwyll*

          Hi there! Thanks, I really appreciate the note. AAM is blocked on the corporate network, sadly.

    3. esra*

      Jobspresso! I mean, it depends on your specialty, but for programming/design/pming/marketing, jobspresso has some great leads.

    4. Effie*

      I like Amylynn/Annika

      They list legit sites for free and have a blacklist of scams. I still do some of the paid survey sites that I found through her site on the side.

    5. Audiophile*

      I’m so glad you asked this question, I’ve been looking for remote work and had very little luck. I’ve looked on Idealist and Indeed and haven’t had much luck.

  7. De Minimis*

    So happy the federal hiring freeze has ended!

    A decent job has opened up at my former employer. The people there would likely know my references, so I’m hoping the odds are good. I have mixed feelings about returning to my home state, but the stress of living and working where I do is just taking too much of a toll. I also have a significant number of years in the federal retirement system so it would be a better move long term to return to it.

    I’m also really de-motivated at my current job…I only do really low level work here and though I’m well paid, I think I’m damaging my career the longer I remain here.

  8. Jan Levinson*

    Background: I wrote last week in the open thread about my supervisor being very cold towards me since being told that I was being promoted to a new role, in which she will no longer be my manager. If you all recall, she flipped out on me last week after I worked over my lunch hour, and asked her if I could leave an hour early.

    Today, an even more frustrating situation has arisen. For my new position, I am required to take a test at a physical therapy building 20 minutes from our office. My appointment is from 2:00-3:30 PM today (HR scheduled it for me), and I am supposed to be there 15 minutes early to fill out paperwork. My supervisor told me yesterday that I wouldn’t have to come back to the office after my appointment (we close at 4:00 on Fridays, and I wouldn’t be able to make it back to the office until 3:50, so it makes sense that I wouldn’t come back). Every day, I take my lunch break from 12:30-1:30. Since I would have to leave at 1:25 to make it to the physical therapy building in time, I planned on leaving at 12:30, grabbing lunch, and heading over to the test. I emailed by supervisor just as an ‘FYI’ that I was leaving for my lunch break and heading straight to my appointment (I usually eat lunch in our office break room). She comes to my desk after reading my email and says “no, I’m not going to let you do that. I’m already not making you come back to the office after your test (as if she’s doing me a favor – what manager would make someone return for 10 minutes?), so you can leave no earlier than 1:00.” Now I’m going to have to rush to get something to eat on my way to my test, and probably eat in the car on the way. I also have to stop by home to change into workout clothes first (I didn’t anticipate this being an issue since I didn’t except any pushback for taking my normal lunch break, otherwise I would have brought clothes!) I’m just extremely frustrated that I’m being forced to cut my lunch break in half because this test that I’m REQUIRED to take by my company, will end 30 minutes before the end of the workday (and would put my back in the office not more than 10 minutes before the end of the workday).

    As I mentioned last time I wrote in – I am consistently in the office 40 hours a week (ironically, my supervisor never is, which wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if she’d extend the same courtesy to me – which she always did until she was notified of my promotion.) I think this is just another way for her to use her “power” over me, while I am still under her management for another couple of weeks. I’m mostly just ranting, but it’s still deeply irritating to deal with.

    1. AshK434*

      I would definitely push back on this if I were you. Heck, I would probably still take my hour-long lunch as originally planned, but I’ve been known to be insubordinate in the face of lunacy.

      1. Stella's Mom*

        +1 me too. I would take a regular lunch break, and go to the HR-mandated test, and leave early. I would also ask her what the problem is ( you stated it was power games, yes, but ask her.)

    2. NPO Queen*

      If she’s not going to be your manager much longer, I would just deal with it. This is an extremely frustrating situation, but it only has to happen for a couple more weeks. Besides, it’s better to leave with a good rapport if you can, just in case you need her as a reference later. She is being nitpicky with your time and it’s annoying, but once you start your new job, you won’t even remember it.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        +1 I agree with NPO Queen… she’s being a jerk, but you’re almost free of her. You can power through it!

      3. AnotherLibrarian*

        This. You can survive this. Just keep your head up and smile when you want to scream.

    4. I am not Kimmy Gibler*

      Honestly, I would let this go. She’s no longer going to be your manager. What she’s doing is petty and unnecessarily aggressive, but it’s possible that she’s feeling overwhelmed by the fact that she’s no longer going to have you around to help with things and is now taking it out on you. I understand that it’s inconvenient and frustrating, but you’ve been promoted and this is a short-term obstacle that you’ll soon have in your rear window.

      1. Artemesia*

        And store this up for the day you have a chance to pay back. Suck it up now; but don’t forget her. Your chance may come.

    5. SanguineAspect*

      Uuuuugh, this sounds so frustrating. I guess the bright side is, you won’t have to deal with it much longer. Hang in there!

    6. Jessesgirl72*

      I’d inform her that you were taking your usual lunch break, and would simply return to work for the 10 minutes after your test. It would be more convenient to you that way, even assuming you could make it, but naturally appointments often run 10+ minutes late…

    7. LKW*

      What would happen if you just stuck to your original plan? Would that be a fire-able offense in your organization?

      She’s already cold and unreasonable. Can she do anything that would jeopardize your new job?

      I have no experience with this – I work for a company where you just tell someone: I’ll be out and unavailable.

      1. Jan Levinson*

        No, it definitely wouldn’t be a fireable offense. Big Boss is perfectly reasonable, and would have no problem with me leaving at 12:30. In fact, he’s pretty well aware that my supervisor tends to be unreasonable. If I walked out at 12:30 after already being told no by my supervisor, though, she’d probably force me to use vacation time (she does the payroll), and then pout around for a week because I left earlier than she wanted me to.

        I actually do wish I wouldn’t have emailed her, though, and just left at 12:30. I really did it as a courtesy just to let her know, since she knows I’m usually in the office during my lunch hour in case something time sensitive comes up (it usually doesn’t). Most people in my office wouldn’t have bothered emailing her. I’m young in my career, and tend to be a bit “too nice” sometimes, I think!

        1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          I know she’s being a major PITA, but I wouldn’t dig out early because at this point, it would be straight up insubordination. And I think emailing her was the right thing to do, even if her reaction is ridiculous. So the good news is that she looks objectively unreasonable and you look objectively professional.

          Whatever you decide to do, I’d opt for keeping up the “objectively professional” positioning. The situation sucks, and so does she, but of all the lame things she’s doing, this is not the hill I recommend dying on (especially because you’re going to have to deal with her as a quasi-peer when you make the promotion shift).

          1. tigerStripes*

            Agreed. And maybe bring some stuff to snack on so it’s easier to have a later lunch. Sunflower seeds, peanuts, etc.

        2. Observer*

          I agree with Princess Consuela Banana Hammock. You weren’t being “too nice”. You were being professional, and your boss was being a jerk.

          You’re not going to be in her power for too much longer, so power though it. And take a lesson for your own future career. Your boss is developing a reputation for being unreasonable. It’s NOT going to help her career. Developing a reputation for keeping your cool, being professional and treating people well will help your career, though.

  9. Folklorist*

    Here is your ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST!!! Go and do something you’ve been putting off, then come back here and brag about it! Get that monkey off your back and relieve that little aching pit of guilt and despair that’s nestled in your stomach right now (you know exactly what I’m talking about!)

    2. LostCause*

      Cleaning my house for a showing tonight. I’ve put it off for a few weeks and it’s not bad, but 3 bathrooms and mopping the whole house stresses me out.
      And where do I put my 4 cats?
      Please send good vibes, prayers, whatever floats your boat my way today. I could really use them.

      2. JustaTech*

        Cats: someplace several doors away from the outside, so they don’t bolt? Can you put them in one of the bedrooms where they can hide in a closet or under the bed and put a sign on the door
        “Please come in.
        Cats inside.
        Please keep the door closed.”?
        Good Luck!

        1. INFJ*

          My parents put that sign on their door when they were showing their house (also 4 cats!). They also had a basement to hide in, though.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      I went through my notebook where I write everything I need to do, did all the tasks that would take under five minutes, and ceremoniously crossed them out in Sharpie. It felt good.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      Neighbor kitty got out when I went to check on him and is now outside in the rain. I can’t find him. He’s probably hiding somewhere; I’ll go back out later. He’ll probably show up when he’s hungry. I’m sure he’ll be fine. Dumb kitty.

      1. INFJ*

        Aaaaw poor kitty! Yeah, they will hunker down in hiding while the weather is bad. Once the weather lets up, and/or he gets hungry, he’ll come back!

        1. Elizabeth West*

          He did–and was definitely hungry. He went right up to the door and I put him back inside and made sure his dish was full. Oh well; I guess he really was sick of being in the house by himself. Sorry kitty, but I can’t sit in Neighbor’s house with you all day. He is supposed to come home tomorrow, or so he told me on the phone.

    5. Fenchurch*

      I was holding off on sending an email because someone on my team messed up. They lost some client-signed documents and I get the supreme privilege of telling our easily-excitable workforce that this happened and they need to bother the client again for more signatures. I was hoping they might pop up somewhere, but it’s been two weeks and no dice. Guess it’s time to put on my grownup pants and get the ball rolling on this.

      Wish me luck!

    6. Lalaith*

      Well, yesterday I did the big one I’d been hiding from – applying for a job I think I’d really like – but today I made an eye appointment, which I had been putting off for no reason whatsoever. Yay for new glasses :)

    7. Dankar*

      Gah–thank you! This prompted me to put together the final PDF of our accepted fiction pieces the 2017 issue of “my” literary journal. Now for the poetry. :)

  10. anon for this*

    So, this time of the year means I get awful seasonal allergies and sometimes it leads to a reemergence of impetigo (which, for those who don’t know is a staph infection). I got impetigo when I was a kid and because my body hates me, it just stayed in my system and reappears when my body is sick or I’m super stressed.

    Of course, it’s appeared again and in addition to coworkers getting angry with me for not staying home for my allergies (because some of them think allergies are contagious wtf), I have to deal with those few jerks who make a point of asking about the impetigo or, worse, asking if I have a STD.

    It’s unbearable and probably the only time I’m ever self-conscious about my appearance. It’s not like I can hide it because it’s at the corner of my chin and pretty noticeable, either. It makes coming into work miserable since I can’t work from home either.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      People ask you if you have an STD??? Those people are jerks. I’m so, so sorry– I once had impetigo on my chin, and covering it up with makeup made it look worse (thankfully it didn’t worsen the impetigo). I don’t have much advice, just some sympathy, and anyone who calls attention to it really stinks.

      But wtf with the getting angry at you for not staying home with allergies? I would talk to your manager about that. That’s straight up silly.

    2. Tuckerman*

      Ugh. Sorry you’re dealing with this. Are they concerned about the allergies or the impetigo? I know impetigo is very contagious for kids, so maybe they are worried about getting it?
      But asking if you have an STD? So inappropriate.

      1. anon for this*

        The allergies. Even when I don’t have the impetigo (and even when I do, it really is a very small outbreak in one area), I have certain coworkers who get upset about allergies.

        When I say, “I have allergies, that’s why I’m sneezing and blowing my nose constantly”, they make a fuss about me being at work because they don’t want to catch my allergies. And I understand that some people might lie about allergies when they’re sick, but YOU CAN’T CATCH ALLERGIES.

        2. Tuckerman*

          Good lord. This might be where you say, “I’m sorry the educational system failed you.”

        3. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          I am flummoxed by the idea that allergies are contagious. Do they really mean that, or are they implying that people come in sick and pass it off like “allergies,” which results in others getting sick? I’m desperately hoping it’s the latter.

          On the comments suggesting you have an STD, do you have a functional HR department? Because honestly, those kinds of comments get really close to harassment, both in the non-legal sense but also in the ADA-discrimination sense (i.e., it’s unlawful to harass or discriminate against someone on the basis of a perceived disability; here, a socially stigmatized illness like an STD). Are they trying to imply you have herpes or Kaposi’s sarcoma (HIV/AIDS)?

    3. I am not Kimmy Gibler*

      I feel your pain, I had impetigo as a kid. (Nice big bald spot on the top of my head… you can imagine my mother created some interesting hairstyles for me that spring). Tell them it’s an allergic reaction you sometimes get in the spring due to the increase in allergens, that you hate allergy season and that you’re uncomfortable with it… tell enough people and word will eventually spread. And people stink.

    4. SanguineAspect*

      I am SO SORRY that you work with some serious jerks (asking if you have an STD?!). I had impetigo when I was a kid (on/behind my ear) and it SUCKED. I haven’t had reoccurrence since my childhood, but I can imagine the frustration. I have several inflammatory conditions (eczema, ulcerative colitis, iritis, rosacea) that like to flare up when I’m sick, but fortunately, most of those aren’t super noticeable most of the time. If things like this keep happening, can you say something to HR about the harassment?

    5. sniffles*

      ummm while I sympathize with the allergies (pass the tissues please), impetigo is contagious and easily spread.

      2. Artemesia*

        This. I am sure the OP knows how contagious impetigo is and takes appropriate precautions about not touching the lesions and touching anything else. This is some nasty stuff.

      3. anon for this*

        It’s contagious through direct contact only. They can’t catch it if they’re not touching it or using something like a brush or clothing I’ve used. My doctor says it’s okay for me to go to work as long as I take proper precautions, and it’s more of a risk for kids who aren’t aware of what not to share.

        1. anon for this*

          My other comment didn’t seem to post, so I’ll reiterate and say that I do only come into work after it’s non-contagious. But the scabs are still there even when it’s no longer contagious.

      4. anon for this*

        In addition to my comment above, I’m just adding that I’m only going into work after it’s no longer contagious. I’m not an idiot.

        The scabs are still there even when it’s not contagious.

    6. Foxtrot*

      Sorry if I derail this…
      Are they asking specifically if you have an STD and framing the question in an accusatory way? Or are they asking if you have herpes sores?
      Some members of my family in older generations have oral herpes. It IS very contagious when they have sores, so they need to be cognizant of that. But it’s just a fact of life in many ways and shouldn’t be stigmatized as much as it is. It’s a virus spread through human contact just like any other.

      1. TL -*

        If these older members were parents, then all of their descendants most likely have herpes as well (just that most cases don’t have sores or only have the one outbreak.) An estimated 90% of Americans have oral herpes or have been exposed to it. Just a large percentage never have an outbreak.

      2. anon for this*

        Both ways. Like, “oh, looks like you got punished for a good time” and “STDs suck, don’t they?”

        I work with some great people. /sarcasm

    7. Caro in the UK*

      You have my full sympathy, I had impetigo three years ago and it was horrific. I had it all over my face (and in my ears!) and I looked (and felt) like half the skin on my face was falling off :(

      I was so unbelievably self conscious, but fortunately no one said anything mean to me, I would probably started crying if they had. I don’t really have any advice other than these people are jerks and try not to take it personally. I’m sending you big hugs though, I hope it clears up soon.

    8. Shamy*

      Oh I’m so sorry you are dealing with this! I had cellulitis from staph in my breast and it was difficult to deal with. I can’t imagine having it on your face and dealing with such rude people. Sending you well wishes for good health.

    9. Camellia*

      Am I the only person who grew up hearing this pronounced as “infant-tigo”? I can’t remember the first time I saw it in writing but I do remember the holy cow moment when I realized what it was.

      My relatives also shopped at “Van Ludens” and were known to appreciate the occasional piece of “arch-it-tex-shur”.

  11. Audiophile*

    So glad it’s Friday. It feels like it’s been a particularly difficult week. I’m not sure why. I’ve spent a lot of late nights at work, which I’m definitely going to try to start limiting. I don’t want to burn out, especially not this early. My workload isn’t outrageous and my manager has been great about checking in and asking if I’m overwhelmed. I can’t say I feel completely comfortable answering that question honestly though. There are definitely times where it feels overwhelming.

    1. k*

      Hang in there! You say you don’t want to burn out this early, does that mean you’re relatively new to your current job? I know when I first started I was so worried about proving myself and impressing my boss that I ended up doing a lot more late nights than necessary. It took my a while to take a hard look at my tasks and prioritize what things actually needed to be done *right now* and what could wait until the morning.

      My best advice would be to cut yourself some slack, and remember that sometimes it’s okay to put something off to do later. And when things really are up against a deadline, you can still find time to take a 5 minute breather. People are more efficient when they’re clear headed, so you can make up the break by being able to do your job well. :)

    3. Effie*

      *waves* this week sucked for me too! Plus today I feel like I’m about to pass out from lightheadedness (I’ve been sipping water and nibbling food so pretty sure it’s not from starvation). Should I say at least it’s Friday knowing that not everyone has Saturday & Sunday off?

    4. Fenchurch*

      I totally understand where you are coming from. It does help to let your manager know what’s going on/what you’re struggling with. They will be so very relieved if they are able to make work easier for you and also ensure something gets the attention it needs. Do not pressure yourself to be perfect and totally able to handle everything yourself. It is a sign of strength to be able to know your limits and ask for help.

      I hope things get better soon!

  12. I love updates*

    Has there been an update from the letter writer where one employee pushed another into a car because he had a bird phobia and was trying to get away from one? Or did the letter writer ever post anywhere to give an update? I am so curious to know what happened.

    What other letters do AAM readers want updates on?

    1. Temperance*

      I would love an update from the person whose employee wanted a ton of time off around the holidays due to grief.

    2. Nic*

      I’d be interested to hear from the person whose horse died possibly/partially due to a manager not passing along a message. My heart goes out to her, and I’m thrilled the company (grandboss) was so understanding. I’m curious if she stayed, and if so what happened with the manager.

    3. Susie*

      +1 to the bird update.

      I know it’s still recent but I would like to hear from the reader who accidentally called her boss’s daughter a whore. I was mortified on her behalf.

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I actually just got an update on the bird phobia one, and am trying to figure out how to run it without repeating the comment section debacle of the first letter (may just not open comments on it, who knows).

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Not opening it to comments is probably going to be your best bet. That one was ugly.

        1. Caro in the UK*

          To be honest, I probably wouldn’t read the comments on the update for that one (although I am DESPERATE for the update itself!) last time was just too upsetting.

          1. hermit crab*

            I agree on both counts! Maybe post it (with comments closed) on a weekend while the Friday open thread is still active? Commenters with constructive discussion points will know to go there instead.

        2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          I’m strongly in favor of the closing the comments, as DAS suggests. I just ran through five potential outcomes in my head, and each of them would easily trigger the onslaught/badness of the comments to the original letter.

      2. INFJ*

        Hmmmmm Depends on how contentious the actual update is. If there’s some sort of resolution both sides would be generally satisfied with, then perhaps one of your stern warning to readers about keeping comments tactful and on track will do the trick.

      3. esra*

        I agree Detective Amy Santiago. I’m definitely interested in an update, but not so much on a repeat of that comments section.

      7. Rebecca in Dallas*

        Ooh, I can’t wait to see the update!

        I must have missed a comment debacle. I remember reading through some of the comments, but didn’t think they were particularly ugly. Then again, sometimes once the conversation gets derailed I stop reading the comments.

        1. paul*

          I think she modded out most of the nasty stuff. It was still pretty het up on who was at fault and what should be done and all that jazz.

      8. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        I was just about to comment that I’d be surprised to get an update on the bird letter; I know I would have been scared off had I been the LW!

        1. Jessesgirl72*

          I would have been scared off if I were the person with the phobia, but not necessarily the OP.

          1. Thlayli*

            Jane got a fair bit of flak in the comments too. In fact I think one of the reasons the comment section got so nasty is because the very very first comment was insulting to Jane.

      10. BRR*

        I’d be ok with keeping the comments closed after last time. Or could you moderate for certain words like the intern dress code letter? I’m not sure what you might use though.

      11. Elizabeth West*

        I’d either do that or limit them to a certain amount. If you do decide to leave comments open, maybe put a really serious warning in bold type that if people start to get crazy, you will shut it down IMMEDIATELY.

      12. Lily Evans*

        Maybe post it at a time when comments are normally slower (Friday after the open thread is going, Saturday or a holiday Monday)? Or turn moderation on for all of the comments? Although that would probably be a lot of work, unless announcing that all comments will go through moderation makes people less likely to post.

      13. Lissa*

        I’d close the comments. Somebody said about that letter it was like a Rorschach test and I think that was exactly it — people read into it what they wanted to see, since so many details were missing, and then you had people replying as though *their* scenario was absolute fact, so when you had several opposing scenarios people weren’t even debating the same thing at that point. No matter what the update is I really don’t see that not happening again, and/or people whose interpretation was closer to “right” or “wrong” getting smug/frustrated etc.

        1. Jessesgirl72*

          I’m too lazy to go look, but didn’t airport boss try to claim the higher ups were on board with his actions too?

          1. Imaginary Number*

            He didn’t claim the higher ups were on board but he did try to make it sound like the other people he was traveling with were also mad about her casual outfit.

              1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

                I don’t think that’s quite right. It seemed pretty clear that OP’s boss disciplined her without any approval from higher ups, particularly because of what happened in the update. Here’s part of the original letter:

                When I got to work on Friday morning, I was called into my boss’s office. He said I was being written up for my lack of following the dress code. . . . in addition to being formally written up he suspended me for a day without pay (so tomorrow I am serving my suspension).

                And here’s an excerpt from the update:

                When I returned to work on Tuesday, I was planning on speaking to HR about what happened. I didn’t even need to. When I got in to work, the assistant to someone who is higher than my boss brought me in to talk to that person because she (the assistant) heard about what happened. I explained what happened and he said he would talk to my boss.

                The next day my boss was dismissed. . . . My boss’s boss held a meeting where he addressed what happened because of the talk about it. . . . He also apologized to me before the meeting. To reimburse for the mileage and the suspension, I was given two extra paid vacation days for 2017, and the write-up was removed from my file. . . . I accepted the apology because my boss’s boss didn’t cause this and made it right as soon as he knew.

                1. Jessesgirl72*

                  I know that he didn’t actually have approval. But that he did it, and the implication- from him!- was that he had their approval. A normal person would think so, since generally a day’s suspension is a more serious level of discipline.

                2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

                  Oh, I misunderstood! I agree that he made it look (to OP) like others agreed with him and that the other managers in the car had made the complaint. What a scumbag.

    6. KiteFlier*

      I would love an update to the open thread commenter a few weeks ago who was being forced to take a drug test later the same day and was going to resign due to regular marijuana use. That was such an interesting discussion!

      2. Rowan*

        That person did update in the open thread the next week. As I recall, they resigned before the test.

        1. Jessesgirl72*

          There really wasn’t going to be any other outcome for that one. He had seen the system in place before.

        2. NACSACJACK*

          He did and they told him they would tell any prospective employers that he resigned rather than take a drug test, so he did not save himself any grief. I watched comments carefully cause I was one of the ones that suggested he resign. :( Felt horrible about it. Was hoping it would work out.

          1. Jessesgirl72*

            I don’t think it was just as bad, still. Failing a drug test IS bad. Refusing to take one, you can do for philosophical reasons.

            And he did have philosophical reasons against it, so it wouldn’t even be a lie to say so. It limits him, sure, but not as much as if he’d failed that test.

      3. esra*

        I’ve been digging through for the update on the person who was going to resign their awful job and giving regular updates about it.

        2. Detective Amy Santiago*

          I think you might be talking about At Wit’s End and they updated in this post!

      6. Detective Amy Santiago*

        What ever happened to the commenter who ran into his boss at a strip club or something and the boss was being a real jerk afterwards? I remember a couple of weeks of updates of things getting progressively worse, but I don’t recall ever seeing a resolution.

    7. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

      I would love an update from the OP who was the only one not allowed on the office’s weight loss reward cruise.

    8. KSMama*

      Wanting an update on the employee who accepted a promotion requiring travel but was banned from traveling by her husband and is now claiming she is exempt for religious reasons.

    9. PollyQ*

      Was there an update from the OP who was outraged that her employee paid for lunch with cash? I am just DYING to know the basis for her belief. OP’s by no means the worst boss we’ve heard of on AAM, but for money, she’s maybe the weirdest.

      2. paul*

        yes yes yes yes. I want this like I want tonights bourbon and coke and my bench press workout.

  13. NPO Queen*

    AAM just wrote up how you shouldn’t make a video to answer possible interview questions, but what if you’re asked to make a PowerPoint presentation? Has anyone done something like this? I’ve never given a 30 minute presentation that basically answers everything I would normally be asked in an interview. To be clear, I’d be making this presentation to the hiring manager.

    1. ZSD*

      How narrowly have they defined the content of the .ppt? I once had to give one in a job interview, but it was specifically about how I thought the university should help students in situation X. Is this something like that, or are they actually asking you to put your own work experience into .ppt form?

      1. NPO Queen*

        It’s more general questions like, “Why do you want this job?” and “tell me about a time when…” kinda stuff. I’ve given presentations on a single topic before, just never one on something so broad.

        1. ZSD*

          Interesting. I think Nic’s advice below is good. Otherwise, I guess I’d say that your bullets could basically be laid out in the STAR method when you do the, “Tell me about a time when…”, maybe.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      I had to give a 15 min presentation for CurrentJob. I was given a very specific topic for my role/field. I also did a presentation 2 jobs ago, now that I think of it. Did they actually give you a topic that is “normal interview questions” or did they get specific?

      1. NPO Queen*

        Totally asked for normal interview questions. I have no problem giving a presentation, I don’t really have stage fright or anything, but I’ve always used my interviews as a two way street, not just me talking about myself. If this was a sales position I’d understand, but it’s a data analyst!

        1. Artemesia*

          I’d think about an interesting analysis you have done and include a bit about ‘why data analysis is both interesting and important to the organization’ illustrating it with this particular example — or make up an example similar (if there are issues of confidentiality) (of course let them know it is ‘based on’ the analysis but altered for confidentiality reasons) This is a chance to sell yourself as technically competent and an interesting person.

    3. AshK434*

      Think it’s worth clarifying that the difference is that you’re specifically being asked to make this presentation whereas the letter writer from earlier this week was making the video to show initiative I guess.

      I’ve never had to do this, but I don’t think it’s that strange (I believe consulting firms make candidates do presentations at some point).

    4. Nic*

      I haven’t had to do that specifically, but I have been asked teach a class which involved a PowerPoint for a training position, and I’ve given MANY of them.

      I’d suggest picking a handful of common interview questions (not just easy ones…REALLY GOOD ones, like those Alison suggests) and answer them. Use that to build an outline that you’ll use for the presentation. Perhaps one question per slide, with bullet points that you expand on (but don’t directly read). Picking good questions will show good things…I suspect many people may try to go for easy ones when they get to pick their own.

      As for PowerPoint suggestions in general….
      – Bullets are good!
      – Stay away from fancy transitions or noises. A quick fade is my favorite transition. Use media with caution.
      – When you change slides, read the slide silently to yourself two or three times to give your audience time to read it.
      – Make the last slide entirely blank.
      – Practice it with timing a few times, and keep in mind most people speed up when nervous.
      – Present it to a friend if possible to get feedback.

      Good luck! Let us know how it goes, please!

      1. NPO Queen*

        Thanks for this! It’s really interesting because they’ve provided questions, but I think I will try to rephrase them as ones Alison uses. That will allow me to expand the way I’d like, while still staying on topic. My friends will definitely be suckered into listening to me talk about myself for half an hour. I guess I should give them beer and pizza afterward?

        1. Nic*

          I think that could actually turn into a fun get-together!

          I like the idea of using their provided questions, but tweaked.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I had to give a presentation for my current job. I was asked to talk about something completely non-work-related, so I made it fun and engaging (I talked about a hobby of mine that many people think is really hard, but it’s actually pretty easy to take up). I would be weirded out doing an “interview-esque” presentation, but I might try to make it just as engaging, fun graphics, etc.– IF you get the vibe that would be acceptable here.

      A former co-worker once sent a Thank You ppt with animation and cartoons, with things like, “M was so happy to meet with S and J!” and characters that acted things out. It sounds terrible, I know, and ridiculous, but for that team and that company, it was perfect and very clever. Not recommending you should necessarily go that route, though.

      1. NPO Queen*

        I’m asking my contacts to see about the general vibe at the place, though I haven’t heard back yet. I once had a dream of being a teacher, and I remember “teaching” my interviewers about the alphabet, but that allowed me to be wildly creative. I’m hoping this job interview allows me to show a bit of personality in the presentation!

    6. Allie*

      If you’re asked to make the Power Point, that’s 100% fine and pretty normal. It was the unsolicited nature of the video that was problematic.

    7. Thlayli*

      I had to give a PowerPoint presentation for an interview once but they gave me guidelines on what it was about. Honestly I don’t remember what it was but it was about work-specific stuff not just “tell us about yourself”

  14. Ann Furthermore*

    I posted last week because I was a little concerned about the turnover at my company (where I’ve been for about 6 months), and my co-worker who had ended up travelling way more than the 25% he and I were both told when we accepted our positions. He resigned, citing the excessive travel as the reason. He’d been working on a project with another firm, and a couple of the people there had been a real handful to work with, which contributed to his frustration. This same firm has an engagement lined up with another client that will be Oracle focused, which is my area of responsibility.

    I’d planned to talk with my boss in person on Monday, but she ended up working from home that day. I emailed her and asked if she’d have some time to talk next time we were both in the office, and said that I was wondering if the partner firm was going to want me to be there onsite each week. She sent a reply that was a little bit terse, and I could tell she was thinking, “Oh, great…what now?” So, I replied (after carefully choosing my words, since things can be so easily misconstrued in emails), and said that I was asking because if there were any travel-heavy times on the horizon, I’d like to give my family some advance warning because everyone seems to handle it better when they know that it’s coming. At my last company, I’d spent 2 years on an implementation project that was extremely difficult, in part because the users were quite indecisive and could never make up their minds about when they wanted to do things. Travel decisions were always made at the last minute with no warning. Or, things got rescheduled because they’d ignored their deadlines and weren’t prepared for testing or training events that had been on the calendar weeks or months in advance. It was very disruptive and caused a lot of upheaval for everyone. Then I closed by saying that some unpredictability is inevitable in our line of work, which was baked into my expectations of any IT related job, and I’d promised myself I’d try to do a better job of managing the impact of that on my family than I had in the past.

    She responded by telling me what she’d said in my interview – that there is typically not too much travel. Then she told me that all the travel that my co-worker had done (after the first 2 weeks) was of his own choosing, and she had urged him to reconsider because she was concerned that it would be too much. So that’s why she was quite surprised that he resigned because of the excessive travel. The fact that it was largely self-inflicted on his part did put a different spin on things.

    She called me later and we had a very good talk, and she told me flat out that she would never commit me to travelling for weeks on end without my consent, and that I will usually know when travel is coming, because she’ll ask for my help when writing SOW’s that are for work in my area of expertise (which is true – I’ve helped her do a few of those so far). And she reassured me that she understands the importance of work-life balance, and that family comes first. And then told me again how happy she was that she hired me, and that I am the exact person that she needed in this role. And, she thanked me for being open with her so we could talk through our concerns and not have any misunderstandings.

    I’m so glad I brought it up. I’m normally a very outspoken person, but my dad drilled into my head when I was young that when it comes to work, you do what you need to do to get the job done without complaining, no one is indispensable, and the words “that’s not my job” or “that’s not what I signed up for” should not be in your vocabulary. Sometimes there’s a perfect storm of crap that you have to deal with, and everyone needs to pitch in and do their part to get through it. By and large, I agree with him. There are times when it is appropriate and/or necessary to speak up, but it’s something I struggle with because I can always hear my dad’s words in my head telling me not to be the slacker who doesn’t want to do their part.

    2. LCL*

      Glad that it worked out for you.
      I had the same problem as you re speaking up about job issues. Your dad sounds like my dad. He always told me that you should do whatever task your employer asked you to do, as long as it wasn’t evil/illegal/unethical.

    3. Future Analyst*

      I’m really glad the conversation went so well! Yes, it can be daunting to assess how much of changed expectations one should just roll with. I think most of us have had it drilled into our heads that we should go along to get along, and it can be tricky to fight that instinct.

    4. Jessesgirl72*

      I think one way to reprogram yourself out of being reluctant to speak up is to think that yes, he is right, sometimes things hit the fan and everyone has to dig in to get something done, without complaint. However- and this is a big however- if you see the shizz heading for the fan, it’s in everyone’s best interest to speak up about it and see if you can mitigate the fall out before it happens, even if you can’t stop it entirely. And as in this case, it was definitely best to seek clarification while your boss had the leisure to do that, instead of in the middle of an all hands on deck moment.

      I’m so glad you got a reassuring answer from your manager.

      And it occurs to me that your former coworker wasn’t hooked up to a lie detector when he gave his notice, and that voluntary work travel would be a potential easy way to cover up interviewing at other companies…

      1. Ann Furthermore*

        That thought occurred to me as well. He may have been using this company as a placeholder while he worked out something with another one. I know people do that, but personally it’s not something I’d ever be comfortable with. It’s disingenuous. When I got this job, I’d been talking with another company too. They had not made any final decisions. They told me they were in the midst of some company-wide reorgs, and it would take awhile for anything to be finalized. I’d gotten on very well with everyone there though, and I’m not the only person in town with my particular skillset, but it is rather specialized. If I’d waited long enough, I probably would have gotten an offer. But when I decided to take this job, I emailed the person I’d been working with and withdrew my name from consideration.

        My boss told me that she’d been doing some soul searching, since this is the second person in a pretty short period of time to quit after a couple months. She asked one of the VP’s and the CEO to do exit interviews with my co-worker, to try to get more insight as to why he resigned, because she wanted to know if it was something she was doing or not doing. And she said she talked with some friends who are also managers in the IT world. She was somewhat reassured when they told her that they are also having trouble retaining people, and that this is something that’s becoming more common.

  15. De Minimis*

    Does anyone here use the “Getting Things Done” methodology or something similar?

    I’m trying to enact aspects of it at my job, but the entire thing is a bit overwhelming.

    1. EddieSherbert*

      A couple months ago, I got about halfway through the book… then work got busy, and now (irony) I’ve been putting off finishing it…

      But I love the idea of it! When I was reading it, I did get a LOT done that had been sitting on my mental to-do list (that I was putting of for no real reason), and I have gotten better with both my calendar and to-do lists. I even put “call X family member” in my calendar so it’s not sitting on my brain that I should call Grandma this week!

      1. De Minimis*

        About the only thing I’ve been able to sort-of do is an “inbox” folder [an actual folder] for anything I have in process as it comes in or that needs to be done. This has helped me be a little less scattered. I’d like to do more, though.

        1. EddieSherbert*

          The digital options have been easier for me to implement. Partly because I had programs and such already available for calendars/to-do lists/reminders – I just wasn’t using them very well before.

          Though I recently bought a filing cabinet (my bills/important docs/to-do docs folder is a horrifying pile in a basket). My game plan this Sunday is to go through it all!

          It’s funny, because when you’re summarizing the book, it seems like everything is somewhat obvious – but then it’s hard to actually do a lot of it!

          1. De Minimis*

            My main need for it is due to my job being so paper-based! Until now I’ve worked in a lot of paperless or paper-light environments, but this job is a little backward in that regard. I need to come up with something that will help me adapt to it.

            I took a basic organizational course a few months ago and that has helped a lot, but I’m looking to improve further, and had heard a lot about GTD.

            1. NotoriousMCG*

              Dude, ME TOO. I just started a job where I’m dealing with thousands of paper files for the first time in my life. It’s baffling to me

        2. Anonymous Educator*

          I do the same thing, but mine’s my actual digital inbox. That’s my to-do list.

          When I was using Outlook at previous jobs, I would have an archive folder to put things that were done, and the things that were not done would just stay in my inbox. After finishing an item, I’d move it to the archive folder.

          Now that I use Gmail at work, it’s a fairly similar process. If I can do something right away, I just leave it as is. If I need to get back to it later, I star the message. Then periodically I go back to my starred messages and address what I can.

          Sometimes if an item doesn’t even come to me as an email, I’ll email myself or email the person who’s asking me to do that, and then I’ll star that email to earmark it to myself for later.

          1. Hermione*

            This is now how I operate ( ~3-4 years now) and it SERIOUSLY changed my workflow. My personal e-mail is set up like this too – actionable in the inbox, special folders for specific topics, “archive” folder for everything else.

            I also do brain-dumps – less so in this job than in my last, as there are less informal meetings and more e-mails e-mails e-mails – but I would just launch everything I could think of onto paper, then re-write them into categories on a colorful piece of paper. Then I could batch similar to-do’s on various projects, and I felt less stressed because I knew I wasn’t forgetting anything – that it was written down somewhere.

    2. Professional Cat Lady*

      When I get really busy I use a hybrid of that and a bullet journal – I keep a task list ranked by importance on one page, and a weekly calendar for appointments and strict deadlines on the other. (I know I should be doing this every week, not just when things get super busy.) It really helps me sort priorities and get things done, no matter how small the task feels, though.

      1. De Minimis*

        I send an e-mail to myself at the end of each day listing the things I want to get done the following workday. Sometimes that has helped. I try to use the outlook calendar too, but having the list there in an e-mail format seems to make things more concrete for whatever reason.

      2. TL -*

        I’m only a dedicated lister when I’m busy or stressed – most of the time I’m fine but high stress levels severely impact my memory and thankfully, I’ve gotten better at predicting when I’m going to need to write everything down!
        But the rest of the time, my life is fine without extreme listing; only complicated projects get lists and only far-off commitments get put on my calendar.

    3. OtterB*

      I’ve been using it somewhat off and on. I do find it’s helpful to have a single list of future tasks and subtasks and potential tasks and not require my brain or little pieces of paper to hold them. I’ve been using it in conjunction with Workflowy, which I like as list management software. Workflowy lets you tag items and then display only things meeting a search criteria, so I can tag things #today or #thisweek and then view just the list of those. What that doesn’t let me do, unfortunately, is display a prioritized list of today’s tasks, which would be really helpful.

    4. Victoria, Please*

      The best part for me is the Next Actions concept. If I’m procrastinating something, I can be assured it’s because I haven’t thought about *what I actually need to do* next.

      I don’t worry too much about the flowchart, although it’s a brilliant idea.

  16. Anon for This*

    My boss and I are having a terrible time communicating right now.

    Our organization is going through a major shake up right now and we’re all feeling unsteady. He’s feeling in particular very insecure. He’s accused (in sort of a non-angry matter-of-fact “this is what I see happening” way) me of making power plays by handling things myself that he’s told me he doesn’t want to deal with and I should handle myself. He wants to be the one seen as speaking for me and wants me to all of a sudden be very careful about what I share with others. We’re butting heads really badly right now, and I don’t know what to do besides yes him to death, which tbh I’m bad at and he responds poorly to anyway because he finds it insincere.

    Anyway. Mostly venting.

    1. IrishEm*

      So, he’s told you to handle things yourself that he doesn’t want to deal with – and now he’s calling your actual handling of the things he asked you to handle a power play? Did I read that right? Is he for real? You’re doing your job – that he told you to do – and suddenly it’s a power play? Sounds like he’s in fear for his job to me.

      1. Anon for This*

        Yes you read that right. I’m not sure he remembers telling me that, though he hasn’t said as much. He has some memory issues…or changing his mind issues….and doesn’t like me to put things in writing so I can point them out later.

        He’s a very agreeable boss most of the time, but yeah I think you’re right. He’s freaked out and I’m having a hard time navigating it.

        1. AMPG*

          This might be a case where being really honest would help defuse this situation – “I get that there’s a lot going on right now and we’re all feeling unsteady as a result, but I want you to know that I’m on your team and am genuinely trying to make your job easier when I make decisions like that. I’d like to talk about the best way to support you that doesn’t leave you feeling like I’m taking on things that are above my pay grade.”

          But you know better than anyone how something like that might go over.

    2. esra*

      I went through that with a (terrible) art director. We had two big projects ongoing and he said while he was tackling one, he wanted me to tackle the other completely by myself, don’t even cc him. I did just that.

      The project went well, but I guess in an upper level meeting, neither he nor his boss could answer nitty gritty specifics and it came out that I handled everything. So he came to my desk and asked for every key email, and then, one by one, asked if I cc’ed him on it.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      The only thing I can get to help some what is to take the position, “I want to do whatever is helpful.”

      How I step through this is:
      I repeat back the larger instructions or details such as dates that will bite me later. “So you are saying you want me to handle X (the due date is Y), correct?’
      Of course Boss says yes, because I am repeating what Boss said two seconds ago.

      Next day/week/month, predictably it bit me. So I would say, “I was concerned this would happen. That is why when you told me I repeated it back to you because I wanted to make sure I get it right. And you indicated yes, I had it correct.”

      Boss: blah, blah, blah.
      Me: “Look, I don’t care which way this one goes, I just want to do work that is meaningful to you and the company. I have no personal agenda of choosing A over B or anything like that. I need my job. I like my work. I want to do a good job and I am dependent on you to tell me how I can best help here.”

      This is sort of a nice way of saying “cut the crap, we will get through this just like everything else.”

  17. Red Reader*

    Can you tell me about a time when you were involved in developing a new team from the ground up? Bonus points if you yourself were developing it as a manager?

    A multi-division group in my org is starting to flesh out the process of building a new team to consolidate some cross-division tasks, and I have had promising discussions with the process manager regarding my own background, skillsets, and interest in a leadership role on that team. I’d like to do some mental preparation over the next couple months for a best-case scenario (and luckily, staying in my current role is a second-best-case scenario, so win-win for me), but I’ve never been involved in developing a new team from complete scratch before.

    1. kbeers0su*

      Yes, and it was an interesting process. The key things up front are to know who all the players are (who wants input), who carries the most weight in those decisions, what the priorities are for the new team versus things that they could do, and the skill sets you need on the team. It’s also good to know if you will have the opportunity to pull other internal folks, or if you’ll be hiring only from the outside. And you should also find out how much decision making power you would have as the team lead, as opposed to what you’ll be told you have to do.

    2. Emmie*

      I’ve done it from two parts:
      1. As an employee: recruit people who have a track record for adapting well to change and being flexible. The work will evolve, jobs change, and standards do too. It helps having a manager who keeps you informed.
      2. As a manager: I consolidated people across the company to align with their function. As we evolved, I had to manage duties off of their to-do list…. responsibilities that people were holding on to that belonged elsewhere. There were even a few long-tenured employees that I needed to have multiple rounds of this process. I needed buy-in from others to do that (you can start w/ that now.) I trained them on how to do this, got involved when necessary, and rewarded them with something they liked doing – growth, training, new responsibilities, more manageable workloads. I like to manage people to be promoted or towards their professional goals whenever possible. There are parts that were more stressful such as working under changing bounds, educating myself, and figuring out how to manage people in changing bounds (and those who are reluctant to change their duties.)
      There are plenty of other things too, but those were the biggest. Good luck! It’s going to be rewarding and fun at times too!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Since the team is new to all of you that kind of levels the playing field, in that no one knows everything.
      While I retained the authority to make the final decisions, I encouraged people to look at what we were doing and find ways to streamline, increase accuracy and just generally not let the workload run US into the ground.

      I had some sense of what ideas were good and what ideas would not work out. I had to teach the constraints we had to use when adjusting our work flows and our methods. For example, if they offered idea ABC, which I knew would not work out, I would say something like, “Okay take ABC and figure out a way to include D in that process. The reason here is when we are done, we need to have ABCD. So keep thinking on this. I would like to see this made more manageable and I am glad you are thinking along the same lines.”

      It took less than a year. They started coming up with ideas that were reeeally sharp because they knew what we were looking for in a working ideas that we would actually use. They took one process that originally needed 8 people and reduced it to a 2 person job. it was absolutely brilliant they way they rearranged that.

      It was more collaboration that you’d see in many places. For my part, I made sure they had what they needed to do the job. I developed some ideas myself, since they were the ones doing the actual work I asked them to try my idea and let me know if it was better/easier/whatever. In time they realized that I did not care if they made little tweaks to my ideas and they realized that anyone could contribute an idea at any point. It was really important for me to make sure I did not come across as shutting down ideas and that is when I latched on to the concept of teaching the constraints involved in our work.
      They basically saved my butt. Our workload was staggering and they just kept pushing though it all. They were amazing.

    2. Professional Cat Lady*

      Good luck! I’ve got a skills assessment today (third time trying it, technology’s been difficult on my end) and a phone interview on monday, so I’m with you.

  19. Fortitude Jones*

    This one is part question/part vent.

    Where in the world do people go to find entry-ish level project management or business analyst position? Ultimately, I want to become a risk manager, preferably at a financial institution, but every risk manager job posting I come across wants 5-10 years of experience in either risk analysis, project management, or business analysis. I have zero years experience in any of those roles, so I figure I need to get one to start building towards that goal.

    So far, I’ve been job searching since the end of March, and it’s starting to look bleak. I passed on interviewing with one company because the role wasn’t quite what I was looking for and the company culture wouldn’t have been the right fit, but now I’m kicking myself – I’ve gotten zero bites since. And the one recruitment call I’ve gotten was for a temp-to-hire role in the industry I’m currently trying to leave. Why in the hell would I leave a full-time permanent position for a temp-to-hire role? What are these recruiters smoking?

    My plan to be out of my job by the end of the summer is looking bleak *sigh*. I don’t know how much longer I can take this mess. I really hate my job.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’m not in any of those roles, but from what I’ve seen in various organizations where I’ve worked and from knowing people who do that kind of work, people seldom start out in those areas. Your best bet is probably to get your foot in the door with a financial institution in a more generalized role and then seek out opportunities to learn about or work on projects that involve risk analysis. I feel like a lot of those positions are filled with internal hires moving up within the organization because you have to know the business and how it operates to be able to determine risk.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Yeah, I’ve been applying to generalized roles within financial institutions, but I don’t seem to be getting much traction there either, and I think it may be because I have more work experience than what they’re looking for (I’ve been working professionally since 2010). But I agree – I think a lot of financial institutions prefer to hire internally first. I know my current company does just because it’s easier and requires less training.

    2. LSP*

      I sympathize with the trouble with entry-level jobs that require years of experience.

      I am a project manager, and my company has brought in assistant PMs straight out of school before, provided they have internship experience, and I think at least one of them has a Masters degree.

      If you’re changing industries as well as changing roles, you will likelt need to take a step down the ladder to make that switch, so look for assistant PM roles, and really make the case in you resume and cover letter for the transferable skills you have.

      1. Dawn*

        Senior BA here- this is the best way to get started. I got started as a Research Analyst, then promoted to Senior (both at company 1), then landed a BA role (at company 2 based on how I re-wrote my resume), and now I am about to start as a Senior BA (at company 3).

        Also look into consulting if you can swing the hours/ work lifestyle- a TON of consulting firms like to hire BA’s straight outta college so they can mold them to their liking and don’t really care about what degree they have- soft skills are way more important than hard skills when you’re getting started as a BA.

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          Also look into consulting if you can swing the hours/ work lifestyle- a TON of consulting firms like to hire BA’s straight outta college so they can mold them to their liking and don’t really care about what degree they have

          I’ve been out of college since 2009, so I don’t know if this is still applicable or not.

          1. Dawn*

            Totally applicable. It’s mainly that they want people they can train/mold- age isn’t really a huge factor, but attitude totally is!

            1. Fortitude Jones*

              Cool, I’ll look into consulting then. I don’t mind having to grind for a few years to get the experience I need under my belt, and I learn quickly, so (I hope) it wouldn’t be a problem.

    3. NW Mossy*

      I work for a medium-sized financial services firm, and we typically hire internally for our beginning PM/BA roles. Our thinking is that picking up people who have strong knowledge of the business line they’ll be supporting can more easily develop the generalized project/analysis experience when they aren’t also trying to learn what the heck it is we do here. For more senior people, it’s the other way around – the generalized experience is more important than the deep knowledge of our business line, so we do more external hiring. I don’t know if we’re representative of the industry at large, but something to consider.

    4. NPO Queen*

      I got started in project management as an assistant actually. I was the dept. assistant for a team at a university, and as the lowest person on the totem pole, I had to do a lot of planning and organizing. I was able to parlay that experience into something with a bit more of a project management angle, but it was still dealing with administrative work.

      Look at the experience you have now and figure out how you can sell it for what you want. I was in fundraising, none of that sounds like project management, and yet I was able to relate my experience to that line of work. See what jobs are available in the institutions where you’d like to work, and don’t worry if they don’t have the exact title you want. If you don’t want to spend time getting extra training or certificates, its easier to look at the job you want and see what’s a step or two below it. Or see what job has a lot of the skills you want to learn but might not have the exact title.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        I have no problem getting extra training/certs – in the three years I’ve been with my current company, I’ve gotten eight designations, and I’m working on securing my ninth. I’ve also been trying to play up transferable skills in my cover letters (especially since I’m currently working in a financial institution, just in an insurance capacity, and I worked at a law firm for nearly three years whose clients were all banks/credit unions), but I don’t think I’m doing a bang up job there. My cover letters are probably the weakest thing I have going for me right now and no matter how many times I read the stuff on this site, I just don’t seem to be able to make it work for me. And I’m a writer! LOL.

    5. Pwyll*

      At my massive financial services company, our categories of PMO hires are as follows: 1) subject matter experts not in PM (that’s how I got in) ; 2) people with external PMO experience in any industry; 3) internal hires who worked in the business and have good organizational skills.

      If you’re at the earliest stages of your career and want to join one of the larger firms, your better bet is to apply for entry level jobs in the business (as in, in funds administration or NAV calculation or whatever), to really soak things up for promotion to the senior associate level, and then apply internally for transfer to risk or PMO. After a year in the business, you should be able to work with your boss to do ancillary projects with the PMO, as we are always working with folks in the business to implement our new risk initiatives. The great majority of our early career projects folks came from directly this experience.

      Of course, the other way is just straight up networking. Some folks on my team found the jobs exactly that way as well. Meet with everyone and anyone in the industry for coffee and get your name out there. I find this the most difficult, but it works.

    6. LQ*

      I did project management and I’m now in a management analyst job (though nonprofit and government, not financial). One I started as an office manager. One I started as someone helping people in an actual entry level job, a lot of people here end up BAs because they come in through a call center. Others I’ve talked to have gone through similar paths. Sort of completely unrelated job and ends up in a BA role or Project role.

    7. N.J.*

      As someone who fell into project management from a totally different field I can offer some general insights from my own experience. My first job post grad school was as a project coordinator within a specific filed I studied for. A lot of it was administrative and scut work, but I did get some experience related to managing or assisting in the management of project aspects. A lot of positions you see posted in a project environment can be a coordinator or assistant position, which is low on the ladder but can provide base experience. I then somehow parlayed that into a full on project manager position at an educational institution in my area. Two things helped me: the project coordinator experience, my specific graduate degree and the fact that the group was building their project management function from the ground up, so they were willing to pick up a newbie. A lot of full fledged project managers are experts in their actual field and fall into the PM end of things. Do you have a work background in anything particular industry or topical area wise that would get your foot in the door somewhere? For risk manangembt in finance do you have an accounting or banking background that you could use? Or a business focused degree such as an MBA?

      What has also helped me and a few other acquaintances is that I have specifically sought out PM training. I did this during my first PM position and it was useful from a functional and an educational perspective. I recommend finding a PMI certified educational provider as a shop without some sort of ties to PMI don’t be particularly useful.

      Speaking of the PMI (Ptoject Managrmgnt Institute), I suggest becoming more familiar with them, as they are the main professional organization in the US to provide education and professional certification. The full PMP credential is time consuming and expensive, but the CAPM certification might be something you can pursue as a first step currently. One of the ways to qualify to sit for the cert test is “23 hours of project management education completed by the time you sit for the exam” (excerpt straight from their website). This could get your foot into the door with a lower level project position.

      Sorry for the brain dump! I’m not much help on the risk management end but the above held true for my experiences getting into project heft management itself.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Do you have a work background in anything particular industry or topical area wise that would get your foot in the door somewhere? For risk manangembt in finance do you have an accounting or banking background that you could use?

        I have a banking/mortgage lending background (four years), so that’s why I’m interested in risk management in a financial institution. I was originally planning to stay at my current company for a few more years to let them pay for my masters in risk management, but my financial situation is precarious, I’m not making enough money here (and probably won’t for awhile), so now I need to move on. But things aren’t looking good if I have to step backwards as well to move forward, though I am willing to do so if I have to. It’s just going to be extremely difficult on my own.

    8. Jessesgirl72*

      I think this is one of those universal questions. The answer seems to be, it’s really hard. Ideally, you start getting that kind of experience in a role you already hold, before you need to look for a job doing it in another company.

      It’s really the age old question about companies wanting experience, and how do you get experience if no one will hire you to do it.

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        Ideally, you start getting that kind of experience in a role you already hold, before you need to look for a job doing it in another company.

        I keep missing out on all of the business analyst positions they post here at my company. It’s almost like a comedy of errors at this point, lol. Every time I reach out to the HR reps to ask where they are in the process, they’ve already offered the job to someone else. I’m like, “But I just saw this!” LOL. I would think the universe was trying to tell me something, but I’m not ready yet to accept defeat.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            The funny thing is I do, but my company posts sooo many listings each day all over the country (and in other countries) that I guess my eyes keep skipping right over the stuff in my home office *headdesk*. Clearly, I need to do a better job of sorting. And I think they’re hiring people who already work in these particular departments like someone mentioned above.

    9. MsMaryMary*

      Try looking at positions at an insurance carrier, insurance agency, or brokerage. You want to be on the property and casualty side, not life and health. If you eventually want to be a risk manager, trying to focus on an area like management liability might be a good entry point.

      Good luck!

      1. Fortitude Jones*

        I’m currently working for a P&C insurer, so I’ve been looking for jobs in this field on the business analyst/project management side. However, the companies in my area don’t pay much of anything. Sadly, the one I work for seems to be the best paying one, which is mindboggling to me given how crappy our compensation structure is. Surely the rest of the industry can’t be doing worse than us…

        That said, what is management liability? Is that like professional liability? Because my company has a division specifically devoted to that, though they don’t do much hiring (the people who have those jobs tend to stay put).

        1. MsMaryMary*

          I’m on the life and health side, so I only know enough about P&C to be dangerous. But I believe management liability is broader than professional liabiliy. It includes things like cyber, crime, and fiduciary liability as well.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            Got it – my company does all of those things, just as separate divisions. And some of our property divisions handle cyber products as well now.

  20. LSP*

    A little background: My husband has more than 10 years experience as a teapot developer. He has been at his current job for six (nearly 7) years, and recently was referred to a new company by a former co-worker.

    I have never seen such a close match between a job description and a set of skills, plus it’s a full-remote position, which would relieve him of a nightmare of a commute he’s been doing for 6 years.

    He interviewed with a couple of other teapot specialists, then again with the manager. The manager made him a verbal offer on the spot, and my husband asked for time to think about it. He was sent a formal offer letter, and given three days to sign and send back. He took one day to think about it and replied with a request for a bump in the salary, to bring it more in line with the average for the area. (He has been seriously underpaid at his current company.)

    Yesterday was the deadline to accept the job, and even after following up again, he has not heard back from this company that had seemed so eager to hire him. He’s worried he messed up, but I told him if they write him off for wanting to do something as normal as negotiate salary, it’s a red flag anyway, and he should be glad to have avoided them.

    Thoughts? Advice?

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      They may be frantically arguing over it, or trying to see if they could get a little more, or they may be playing passive-aggressive games. But I’d prepare to move on, mentally. I’d just make sure he’s tried to contact more than one person, since it’s possible the hiring manager could be on travel or ill or something.

      Of course, he should have determined in his mind if the salary was a dealbreaker or not before he replied. You don’t mention whether he would have accepted the original offer, which you need to settle on in your head before you ask.

      1. I am not Kimmy Gibler*

        I agree with this. I think it’s more likely they’re trying to figure out if they can pay him what he’s asked or negotiating amongst themselves what their counteroffer should be. If they need sign off from a few people this could take a little time. The reason they haven’t responded,… I gather is because they don’t know what the answer will be and even though it would kind to respond with we’re looking into this, they may not want to even divulge that.

        But, if he followed up yesterday or today, I would give them the weekend, send one more note and then call it a day.

        1. AndersonDarling*

          I agree. If they weren’t going to offer any more, then they probably would have responded right away.

          1. Jessesgirl72*

            Yep. In my husband’s company, HR sets the offer amount, and only HR can give the counteroffer, and it would take more than 3 days to send the justification to HR and get an answer back from them.

            Ideally, the hiring manager would let the candidate know this was the hold up, but the ideal rarely shows up in real life.

    2. Cass*

      I’m with you. Salary negotiations are so normal, so if a company balks at his attempt to negotiate and pulls the offer I’d consider it a bullet dodged. Maybe wait a few more days and then he can send one more follow up email? It could be that they need approval for the adjusted salary.

  21. SanguineAspect*

    My final interview with potential-new-job-company went really, really well. I received positive feedback across the board and was told I should expect to hear from them either today or Monday about an offer. I’m trying not to obsessively refresh my inbox every 5 minutes today. And because I can’t shout it from the rooftops in my office, I’m shouting it to the AAM community. :D

    2. INFJ*

      Congratulations! That’s a great feeling. Hopefully you won’t have to wait over the weekend!

  22. Katie ElderBerry*

    Any advice on how to keep employees engaged when your company is clearly in serious financial trouble? I have employees coming in late, taking long lunches, disappearing for 45 minutes at a time, and just plain not doing their work. I don’t want to fire anyone because I don’t think I will be allowed to replace them. I’m in accounting so we still have a lot of hard work ahead.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Are they interviewing for other positions because they’re afraid the company will go under?

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        That was my first thought too. Or lots of medical appointments if they think they’re at risk of losing their insurance. I would address the “not doing their work” part, but try to get a handle on why the rest of it is happening.

        1. NPO Queen*

          You can also have a frank conversation with your team, in one-on-one meetings. I had one job where my boss told me straight up about our financial problems, and told me what she was doing to shelter us from the fallout. Having seen other workers get laid off, it was nice to know that she was doing her best to help us.

          You can make it clear that you need your team to follow instructions and ask if they need flexibility in their schedules, but it’s not unreasonable to make sure they still follow the rules of the job while you’re paying them to do said job.

    2. k*

      It really sounds like people are job hunting. I know if my company seemed to be falling apart I would do the same thing. At the end of the day, people have to look out for themselves so I don’t think there’s a way you’ll get them to all be 100% committed if they’re afraid for their livelihoods. I would be honest with them. Tell them you know things look bad, but for now there is no reason to fear for their jobs (if that’s true), and you need them to still be getting their work done. If you do think they should fear for their jobs, tell them you understand they might be looking elsewhere, but to please schedule their time off the correct way, because you still need to know where they are. If things are a bit more out in the open, it could mitigate some of their fears and stress that are impeding there work.

    3. Jessesgirl72*

      I kind of take issue with your reasoning for not firing anyone.

      If they aren’t doing their work anyway, why good does it do to have them? And not paying them for not working may make it possible to pay the ones who are working a little longer.

      A firing (well, a warning first, but with the intention of following through!) of the most egregious offender will likely bring at least some of the others back in line. Allowing it to continue unchecked just makes it spread.

    4. LaterKate*

      That’s a hard one. If they’re honestly not doing their work, I’d say there’s no loss in firing them (after a really clear warning). If they’re taking long lunches to interview at other places, I’d be inclined to allow that, although they really should be clearing that with you to the extent that that is expected in your workplace.

    5. JustaTech*

      Having been in this situation repeatedly (at the same job) be honest about the financial situation, tell them the limits of what you know (so they don’t think you’re hold back when you honestly just don’t know), and stay engaged yourself.
      When this happened to me we also had nothing to do so it was hard to argue against long lunches, but if you have work that has to get done, then it has to get done and they need to remember that. If you know for certain that the end is near you could mention the quality of your reference depends on the quality of their work even now, but if you’re in the “no one knows” stage that’s just going to drive them away faster.

      It sucks a lot, and it’s extra hard as the boss. It did help me when all our managers up to the VP acknowledged how hard it was, and our VP regularly gave us Friday afternoons off that summer.

    6. Dzhymm, BfD*

      Trust me, even if you haven’t said anything to the worker bees they can almost certainly tell if the company is in dire straits. If they’re coming in late and slacking off then either they’re job-hunting or at the very least they’re phoning it in because they see little future with the company.

      I suggest being frank and leveling with your staff about the state of the company. If the signs are there and you say nothing, the employees are bound to assume the worst. At my last job I knew we were in trouble when one year the annual holiday party was dinner at a restaurant, and the following year it was pizza in the break room. Sure enough, a month later they very nearly missed payroll.

    7. Taylor Swift*

      If the company is seriously in financial trouble, then let them do what they need to do find new jobs.

  23. Mimi*

    My manager has handed in her notice and is leaving just before our year end reviews. She is our 4th manager since I set my start of year goals this year and has only been with our team for 2 months.

    I work for one of those not government but does government work places that has a strict HR will only verify data and nobody gives proper references type place.

    I am looking for a new role and was hoping that if I had a positive written review to go with my past references would offset the lack of a better proper reference. But now we have found out the someday manager to replace manager #4 will do our yearly reviews in may. This person hasnt even been interviewed yet!

    How do I get a good review from someone who has no idea of my accomplishments in the last year? Current manager has said she wont have time for it and doesnt really care since she leaves before the official review dates. Her manager has gone on maternity leave and wont be back in time. Is there a way to write my own review and just ask her to sign off on it? Or how do I convince the new manager I deserve top ranks when they havent seen my work yet??

    1. Robin B*

      You can thoroughly document your accomplishments, keep logs of deadlines met, goals met. etc., and present it to the person who will do the review. If you get any written compliments/thank yous from clients or others, include them too.

    2. Ann Furthermore*

      Start making a list of your accomplishments for your new boss to review. If you have any emails from people thanking you for your work on something, or telling you that you did a great job, that they enjoy working with you, etc, put those into a separate folder in your email so you can show them if asked. And, when the new boss starts, give him or her a list of people you’ve worked with over the year who can be solicited for feedback on your performance.

    3. TJ*

      Oof, this sucks. Could you prepare some kind of summary of your accomplishments in the past year to show to the new manager? It’s hard to imagine how she could write the performance review at all without any idea of what you’ve done or how you’ve done it.

    4. Zara*

      A few years ago my supervisor died suddenly in an accident. Performance reviews were about 3 months later. His supervisor did them and the person who had been “acting” sat in. They had everyone prepare a list of what they had done, and we talked over that list.

      That year I didn’t get much feedback on my performance, but I was able to show that I did enough good stuff to get a raise.

      Honestly, I think it’s best to come to a performance review with your own list anyway, so that nothing gets forgotten or overlooked. Especially if you set goals at the beginning of the year, you can very easily write how you met/exceeded those goals (or if not, what progress you made).

    5. CAA*

      All your previous managers who have left are no longer bound by the “not allowed to give references” rule. This is actually much better for you than just relying on the document she would have written. Ask her before she leaves if she’ll be a reference for you in the future. Don’t give a specific time frame, stick to “in the future”. She doesn’t need to know that you’re looking now, just in case she feels obligated to inform her manager.

    6. Cromely*

      Along the same lines, I’d say if you know the review form, go ahead and actually write the review yourself so the new manager can copy and paste it and edit it if they feel it’s appropriate. It saves them time and energy when they need it most.

  24. Anon Mouse*

    I have a few people telling me that when I leave my job, I need to get a letter of recommendation from my boss/supervisor as well as a reference. I thought those kinds of letter were mainly for college related things and internships, not actual full time employment. Are recommendation letters still a thing that need to happen in addition to references?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I have never heard of this outside of college and internship type things. And even then, I wouldn’t get a letter just to HAVE it, I’d ask for one when I needed it.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      I’ve never seen one of those and don’t really think most people do that. Securing a reference is vital but not a letter.

    3. SMT*

      I did get one when I was laid off from my teaching job several years ago. I basically just used it as part of an application to be a substitute teacher (they required two letters of recommendation from current/recent employers in the last year), and nothing else.

    5. Pwyll*

      The main time I’ve found this useful is if your current boss is going away: retiring, moving out of country, the company is closing/merging, etc. It’s really only helpful if they will be unreachable, and even then it’s a poor substitute for finding another reference.

      I agree with SMT, though, that in a layoff of firing situation, it’s helpful to have some confirmation as to what the company would say if asked how you left. But that’s not really a recommendation so much as knowledge for you to use to tailor your own response to “why did you leave”.

      1. Natalie*

        Even if the boss is retiring or moving, I wouldn’t get a reference letter. Just ask them for a personal email address and keep using them as a reference as you were before. Unless they’re literally dying, then maybe get a letter?

    6. Anonymous Educator*

      Hiring managers generally want to talk to references (so they can ask specific questions and follow-up questions) and not just receive a pre-written generic letter, so, no, they aren’t still a thing.

    7. CrazyEngineerGirl*

      I did have one employee ask me, his direct supervisor, for a letter of reference when he left. It made sense for him because he was here for a short time (less than a year) on a visa. He came to us from South Africa, originally from the UK, and was heading to Germany next. I was happy to write something up for him as I could easily see there being issues using me as a reference in other countries, even with all of my contact info. For a standard employee, it might actually annoy me a bit since it would take my time to do this thing that I don’t feel would be particularly useful or necessary. I would probably decline and offer my contact info if I was willing to be a reference in the future.

  25. Lalaith*

    How do you handle a name change while job searching? I got married a while ago, but only recently started the legal process of changing my last name. I haven’t changed it at work (except for legal things like payroll and taxes) and probably won’t. I haven’t changed my personal email address, which includes my former last name (*ahem* I might be a bit lazy…). But I do go by my new name socially and I do want to use it once I get a new job. Should I put the new name on my resume? And just let anyone doing reference checks know that everyone knows me by my old name? Should I change it on LinkedIn? Or should I leave everything as-is, and let them know about the change when I get hired and need a company email address and such?

    1. Catbird*

      If you know you want to go by the new name at the new job, I’d recommend putting that name on your resume, changing your linked in profile, and changing your email address right away, even if you have it set up to forward to your current/main email address. If you do get going on the hiring process, just mention it to the person who will be checking references. People do it all the time and it’s not a big deal, but you should set up all your accounts and such to match the name you intend to go by.

      I changed my name a few years ago and moved my maiden name to my middle name, so I include that on my resume and it’s probably a good clue for continuity, but it has never come up.

      1. Confused Teapot Maker*

        +1 to this. Slightly different circumstances – I use my maiden name professionally but my married name personally and, although it causes a bit of extra admin, it’s not a huge deal, provided I’m upfront with people like HR etc. that that’s why the split exists.

      2. Judy (since 2010)*

        As far as references, my reference list has a description of how they know me, so that would be a good place for it.

        Wakeen Smith, Director of Teapot Analysis, TeapotsRUs
        direct manager 2008-2012 while he was manager of handle design at Teapot City
        phone, email or however they want to be contacted

      3. Cap Hiller*

        I don’t think it’s necessary to change your email address. As long as it’s professional, for a woman I think it’s understood why a last name might be different. And they’re just going to type it into their email box and maybe not notice again. I did the same thing as poster above wrt maiden name, so on my resume my name is First Maiden Last; my personal email is first.maiden@domain; and my work email is first.last@workdomain

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I think you can do whatever you want, as long as you pick an approach and stick with it. I didn’t legally change my name, but I, at one point, wanted to take my spouse’s surname. For a particular job search, I used my birth surname, and then when I was hired, I asked HR and my hiring manager if I could fill out paperwork with my birth surname and use my spouse’s surname in the workplace (including my email address), and it worked out fine.

      1. Chaordic One*

        I agree. Pick one name and stick with it. No one likes to work with an airhead who signs stuff as Mary Smith-Jones one day, Mary Jones the next day, and then Mary Smith the day after that.

    3. Ashley*

      Just make sure your references know you by your new name. If you change your resume you may want your maiden name in parentheses. The entire process of changing your name sucks. Good luck!

    4. N.J.*

      When I got married right before a job search and/or was concerned if people used my new name when calling references (assuming they wouldn’t know who I was with the new last name) I ended up putting my name on my resume as something like “Jane (Martin) Smith” with the parenthetical being my maiden name or previous last name (I’ve been married twice, so many different names! This stemmed to work alright).

    5. CatCat (was LawCat)*

      I’d put the new name on your materials if that’s how you want to be known. I think LinkedIn has a way to show maiden name/former last name. (My old last name appears in parentheses.)

      I changed last names during a hiring process (I got married between the time that I applied and the time I got interviews). No big deal. I just let them know I had a new last name.

    6. Student*

      Step one: Figure out what you want to be called. Check!

      Step two: Use the name you picked in Step 1.

      Step 3: If anyone cares about your “legal name” (Hint: almost nobody actually cares about his, as it is distinct from the name you want to be called), then you tell them your legal name, followed by what you want to be called.

      Resumes, job interviews, online applications – use the name you want to be called.
      Tax paperwork after you’ve been hired – use your legal name.
      Job interview involves a background check – give the name you want to be called, and give your legal name, on the background check paperwork and any related interviews. Explain which is which.

    7. NotoriousMCG*

      I’m lazy like you, but in the opposite direction! Got married almost 2 years ago and socially/professionally started going by M— C— G— but still haven’t gone through the legal rigamarole of changing it. Generally it doesn’t even come up until the background check/offer phase when I lightly say, ‘Oh also my name is legally still M— C— so all legal documents are going to say that, but I go by MCG.’ So far hasn’t been an issue

  26. Althea*

    I used to work in another related field at my previous job, say teapot design instead of spout budgeting. My current org hired me for spout budgeting, and I joined a good team. At my last performance review, I said I was happy to stay but wanted to branch out a bit, having been used to doing more broad work. He mentioned some potential opportunities.

    However, I’ve still been wanting to go back to teapot design, or at least teapot budgeting, because I really like it better as a subject. Then my coworker that I work with the most is now leaving for a new job.

    My organization has a teapot design department that sometimes has teapot budgeting openings. They would definitely strongly consider me for the work. But the positions and hiring manager are usually in another city, to which I will not consider moving.

    I’d like to somehow show my interest in shifting departments, but at this point I don’t necessarily want to let my spout boss know about it… unless there really is a chance for me to move to the other department without me moving cities. I’m not really sure how to proceed.

    1. N.J.*

      I have no advice but have been considering a similar move where I work, though probably out a year or more on the horizon. I’ll be watching for responses to your post eagerly! No advice, just commiseration!

  27. Whichsister*

    I heard back from one of the countless jobs I have applied to. And it’s a digital interview. (also know as the dating site video.) I hate these. I have never made it to the next round after a video interview.
    This job is a great fit for me and combines my experiences and education (not to mention will get me out of this dysfunctional pit I work in now. ) It was the ONE I wanted to hear back from after the last round of applications

    Does anyone have any tips or resources on how to do well on the digital interview? The last time I set my desk at home up in front of a nice but undistracting piece of art. I set up lighting. Did my make up. Wore a suit jacket. And still nada.

    1. Persephone Mulberry*

      The big one that immediately comes to mind (because it’s my issue) is practice – with a friend, maybe? – making eye contact with the camera, not with the face on the screen.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      When you say “video interview,” you mean it’s live, right? It’s something like Skype or Google Hangouts? It’s not a pre-recorded video, right?

      If so, I’ve done a few of those. For one job I was interviewing for two hours straight with various people. I just sat there and different people would come and go. It was tough. The problem with video interviews like that is you can’t really behave naturally—you constantly have to be looking at the camera. In an in-person interview, you look at the person, sometimes you two look at something else together, sometimes you can stand up if they stand up. In a video interview, you just sit there.

      I would say just try to act as naturally as you can in this awkward situation and also look at the camera and not the monitor, if possible.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Oh, no… that is awful. Yeah, there’s not much to do except just watch it, see how awkward you were, and then try to re-record (assuming you have the option to re-record).

    3. fposte*

      The “dating site video” makes me think this is static, but if you’re just talking a Skype interview, those are pretty common; if you search this site, Alison has a post from a few years ago with some good tips.

      Keep in mind that most people don’t make it to the next round in hiring no matter how the interview is done, so that it might be the law of probability rather than the format that has been in play for you before.

        1. Camellia*

          A friend had to make a recorded Q&A video for the company’s first round “interview” and she had her husband sit across from her, behind her laptop, so she was looking at him and addressing the answers to him. I don’t know if that helped or not but she did eventually get the job.

    4. JustaTech*

      I’ve heard that putting a picture of a face right next to your camera will help you keep your eyes up there (instead of looking at yourself on the screen), even just a post-it of a smiley.
      Maybe do some practice runs so you can see if you are doing something unconscious that doesn’t look or sound good?
      Good luck!

  29. Confused Teapot Maker*

    I have a new job (yay!) but it will be my first time in a role which is management. I’ve had responsibilities for managing people before but they were more coincidental parts of my work rather than strictly my job. I’m excited but nervous – especially since I feel a lot of lessons on management in my recent past have basically been ‘how not to manage 101’. Does anybody have any advice for managing newbies?

    1. Robin B*

      Years ago I was “suddenly” a manager and took a college course on “Principles of Supervision.” The class and the textbook were really helpful– Google textbooks on supervising and managing.

    2. Collie*

      I’m currently taking a GALE Course through my public library’s subscription on the fundamentals of supervision and management. I’m not yet in a supervision position, but I’m hoping this will get me a leg up. It’s not the most comprehensive thing in the world, but it’s been interesting and relatively helpful thus far.

      1. Confused Teapot Maker*

        Thanks Collie and Robin – hope you both see this – thought I would do one reply because it’s similar advice so hope that’s ok. I have done some management MOOCs in the past so that makes me feel better. I do find they have covered the basics well but are too general for my industry so might see if there’s something more specific out there. Thanks!

      2. Jessesgirl72*

        I’m glad you responded, because I was thinking “Doesn’t Alison have a book….” LOL

      3. Apollo Warbucks*

        Didn’t you write a post about how much you learnt from some of the terrible managers you had?

    4. JustaTech*

      I read part of “Managing Humans” (for managers in the tech sector) and thought it was one of the best management books I’ve read. Not that I’m a manager, but my dad was a management consultant and had tons of books around the house that were generally awful.
      Good luck!

  30. At Wit's End*

    (Quick recap: I have been dealing with a terrible job that uses me as the office scapegoat, has piled the work of three people on me, holds me accountable for things that are not my responsibility, and generally makes my life miserable to the point of panic attacks and mental breakdowns. My last post is linked in my name if you want to read it, where my bosses decided not to hire replacements for our missing staff and asked me to take on even more work but I’d already decided I was giving my notice.)

    For those who wondered, I did indeed give my two weeks notice last week! I was able to corner Supervisor and Head Boss together and gave them my resignation letters. This came as a complete shock to them. They asked why and was I certain in my decision and was there anything bothering me that they could fix to get me to stay. I stayed calm and assured them I was certain of my choice.

    Of course the question of if this was because of the tasks they were trying to give me and I told them it wasn’t, that I’d been giving this thought for a while. They didn’t seem convinced, even said that if I was that bothered by the work, they wouldn’t make me do it if it would get me to stay. Funny since I pushed back against the work when they first asked me about it and they waved off my concerns and told me to just do it. The other funny thing was that they said they were disappointed that I wasn’t staying longer. But you know those two or three empty spots on our team that they weren’t planning to fill? All people hired around the same time as me who left months ago. I am the last person standing from that crowd of new recruits so go me and my endurance. Obviously didn’t point that out but the thought tumbled around my head much to my amusement.

    It felt so good to give over my resignation letter that I went out to my car afterwards to have some privacy to cry with relief and happiness. Just nothing that two weeks from now, none of this will be my problem anymore was such a weight off my shoulders. I’ll probably do more happy crying the day I walk out for good but this felt amazing.

    Now halfway through my notice period and things are business as usual. I’m trying to get done as much as possible for them to leave them on good grounds when I leave. I think they’re trying to get things moving with HR to hire people in a hurry but I know it won’t happen for weeks after I leave. Everyone aside from my bosses and supervisors seem very happy for me that I’m moving on (bosses and supervisors keep grumbling and half-jokingly ask if I’m sure I want to leave). Just a few more days and I can bow out for good! Thank you all again for all the support and cheer, it means so much to me! Love you all in the AaM community!

    2. Nic*

      Congrats! That feels so good. I bet you’re on cloud nine!

      If you have the opportunity to give an exit interview to HR, I suggest being as candid as you feel comfortable.

      I recently got out of a situation like that, and found out through the grapevine a few months later that the manager who had made my life hell was fired, and that several of the reasons given lined up with things I had brought up. I don’t think I was the sole reason, but it may have started them looking into things.

      It feels really nice (and vindicating!) that my candor may have helped make life better for others on my team.

    5. esra*

      Hooray! I’ve been thinking about you + hoping for an update.

      You handled this situation super classily.

  31. BigSigh*

    I’ve got a question about how to PROFESSIONALLY deal with a difficult coworker.

    Small work place. Less than 20 people in an open floor plan. There’s a lot of reasons various people don’t like this coworker, but for the most part, that’s easily handed—for me, at least. If he asks me a question, but interrupts my answer to mainsplain something to me, I stop him and firmly tell him he needs to let me finish. If he’s shouting into the phone on a sales call, I wait for the call to end and ask him to lower his voice on his next calls so that I can also use the phone. And so on.

    But I’m unsure if one thing is being handled appropriately. He’s got a terrible habit of interjecting himself into the conversations of others, both personal and work-related, usually from 10 feet away. A few of my coworkers will turn and shout back, “I’m sorry, are you a part of this conversation?” Some will mutter, “Mind your own business.” I, personally, ignore him. It’s impossible to continue speaking, as he’s almost always shouting, but as soon as he stops, I continue whatever else I was going to say to the person I was speaking to, without acknowledging the problematic coworker or his comments.

    This all feels less than ideal. I know he probably feels shunned. No one in the office likes him, which must feel horribly isolating. But none of his bad habits have ever been addressed by his boss. She received so many complaints when he first began work here that she ultimately threw up her hands and began telling people, “You don’t have to like everyone.” But at the same time, it doesn’t really feel right for me, as a colleague, to publically say, “Can you please stop interjecting yourself into the conversations of others? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but most of the office finds it to be off-putting.”

    What’s the best avenue to take?

    1. Sadsack*

      You certainly sounds like the kindest of your department! I think you can only keep doing what you are doing if his manager won’t do anything.

    2. Kowalski! Options!*

      OMG, were you looking over my shoulder when I was typing *my* question, by any chance?

      We have someone similar in our office (let’s call her the Aging Ingenue, for argument’s sake) who, rather than mansplaining, flirts like hell with anyone and everyone who seems to be receptive to making conversation. That, in itself, isn’t as annoying as the way in which she’ll veer the conversation back onto herself and talk about herself, her animal rights activism… she says she’s been diagnosed with ADD and bipolar disorder, but it’s still really annoying because she doesn’t seem to have any gauge about what kind of behaviour might seem out of order (her habit of putting a leg up on peoples’ desks when she leans in to talk to them, for example, is one that I have problems getting over). We got the same line from our boss, too, FWIW. The only way I’ve been able to deal with it is to keep interaction to very simple, banal topics that are only work-related, and to have my noise-cancelling headphones on my head (not necessarily turned on!) when she has a bad day or is in…full flight, let’s say. That might not work in a lot of other work environments, but it seems to head off the most annoying parts of the behavior.

      1. BigSigh*

        Awkwarddddd. That doesn’t sound fun at all. My noise cancelling headphone are my life saving and I, too, put them on my head even when they’re off just to warn people away some times!

        1. Kowalski! Options!*

          Yeah, some days the only thing that stops me hollering “I’m trying to WORK, HERE!” in an Al Pacino voice is my iPod. About an hour ago, she just had a binge of popping bubble wrap while participating in a very loud voice with about four other people, and all I could do was turn on Ministry and keep thinking, “Four hours until quittin’ time.”

          The thing is, I really love my job, I mostly like my co-workers, and I get along well with my manager – but I really feel my manager is dropping the ball on this one, probably because she doesn’t want to tangle with HR issues about it. And being the newest one in the department, I don’t know how much say I get in dealing with it – or if I have to suck it up and expand my playlists.

          1. BigSigh*

            I’m also finding my situation to be a management fail. He consistently under preforms and has needed to be retrained repeatedly on basically every task. He’s universally disliked and routinely talks to clients as if they’re stupid. Why is he still here?

              1. NL*

                Just fyi, Alison has said she doesn’t read everything in the open threads anymore so the best way to ask her something is to email it.

    3. Artemesia*

      I wouldn’t say this publicly — but I would say it privately. There is nothing unprofessional about asking someone to stop interjecting himself into your conversations. Adding that it is offputting to most people would be a kindness but not necessary. Protect yourself here. Do it privately and kindly, but do it firmly.

      1. BigSigh*

        That’s the trouble with our office layout–there’s nothing but public, except for with his boss who has an office with a door. It’s an open floor plan and we’re all on top of each other. I considered pulling him into a separate conference room, but that’s almost more of an announcement in this office because the two of us have no overlap. Also, he has issues not respecting personal space, so I don’t like to put myself in situations where he can get too close.

        Ugh to open floor plans!

        1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          But remember that it’s normal and common for people to have private conversations in public places. If it weren’t, all the buildings in NYC would collapse from the silence.

          But if you’re worried about embarrassing him, could you talk to him on a coffee run, or on the way into work in the hallway, or almost anywhere that’s public but less public than the office?

          1. BigSigh*

            I just … don’t like him enough to put that kind of effort into correcting something that seems so obvious. I guess I’d rather default to what I’m doing now with ignoring him instead of that route, if both are ok responses.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      While I do think his boss is handling this badly, I also think there may be ways to have it be more likely she’ll address the situation. Is there a way to bring up your concerns (and for your co-workers to bring up their concerns) in such a way that it can’t possibly be dismissed as a matter of personality? In other words, it isn’t about whether you like the guy or not—it’s about him making it more difficult for you all to get your jobs done effectively or it’s about the work environment he’s creating.

      1. BigSigh*

        No, sadly, even then those issues have been dismissed as “not necessary to like all your coworkers.” His boss has completely disengaged about his professional issues. He cuts her out of client meetings, insists he hasn’t been trained on something he’ll have been trained on 3 times, and has the most unprofessional tone and word choice when speaking to clients.

        At this point, I’ve accepted that nothing I say will impact his behavior, so at most I have to make sure I stay professional as possible.

      2. Kowalski! Options!*

        There’s also the issue, too, of whether the person is open enough to receiving the feedback, and if they’ll realize how they’re coming across — or if being told how they come across only serves to raise their hackles more. In our case, Aging Ingenue has been coached, spoken to gently, yelled at, and given side-eye in the year I’ve been here, but nothing seems to have registered. Instead, people who try to coach her are given a litany of all her personal troubles, starting from a dysfunctional childhood right up to senior management being jealous of her.

        1. BigSigh*

          Wow, that’s a lot of handle. I’m continuously surprised at people’s ability to refuse to understand body language/social signals.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          I think the best you can hope for is a dial-back. One thing I have said is, “I am very sorry to hear that. But right now we are focused on task A and I was wondering if you had that prep work done because I am ready to run A.”

          You might be able to work into conversation, “I have always considered work time to be a time out, a moment’s rest, from “life stuff”. Maybe that would be helpful for you, too.”

          If pushed you can go with, “I am so under-qualified to talk about this stuff with you. I just don’t think that it’s fair to you for us to be discussing it.”

      3. Mephyle*

        Is there any point in bringing up the concern “It isn’t about liking or not liking my coworkers [even perhaps fibbing and saying ‘I like him just fine’], it’s that my ability to do my work properly is being interfered with and if [he acted differently] that would stop.”?

    5. Jessesgirl72*

      You can’t ask him to not interject into “the conversations of others” but you can absolutely ask him to not interject into *your* conversations.

      And when he does it again, that gives you the ammo to say “Fergus, we talked about this. Please stop interjecting into my conversations”

    6. Celeste*

      It’s a management fail. This person probably needs to be put on a PIP so they can get him out of there. I wonder why your manager won’t undertake that so as to get someone in there who does better for the org and isn’t a thorn in everyone’s side? It would be interesting to know how many people are looking for a new job just to get away from him and your hands-off supervisor. It all affects the bottom line.

      I see nothing wrong with publicly asking your colleague to behave according to normal standards. I don’t know if he never learned them, or if he has a condition that’s the root of it, or if he will listen to you. But none of that is on you.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Yeah, there’s not much you can do if his boss won’t put him on a PIP and then fire him. Good people will certainly end up leaving…

    7. HannahS*

      I think for the shouting, you can turn around and look really taken aback, and say, “John, please don’t shout at me.” in a shocked “oh my goodness” tone. Or, turn and say in a level tone, “Oh, John, I’m talking to Blagatha right now. I’ll be with you in minute.” As if you thought that what he wanted was to have a NEW conversation. Then, finish your convo, turn to him and ask if there’s something he wanted to talk to you about. It might feel more comfortable for you, because then you’re not just ignoring him, but you’re not letting him interrupt you and giving him the kind of attention he wants. But you’re still showing yourself to be blandly polite.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Depending on many factors, I might seriously consider just saying out loud, “why are you yelling?” or “you are yelling again”.

      Your boss sucks. At some point you may get it across to her that this has nothing to do with liking him. And if he does not rope in the behaviors somehow, employees are going to start saying more and more to him. It’s creating an angry work environment that is counter-productive to getting work done.

      You may have to explain that you like people well enough for work purposes, you don’t expect to take coworkers home to live with you as extended family. Right now I think you best angle of what you have written here is that you have to put off phone calls until he is done with his rants. If you can come up with more examples of how he is impacting your work, that would strengthen your argument.

  32. Venus Supreme*

    I just learned that a coworker of mine was on a very popular reality TV show (think TLC/HGTV) back in the early 2000’s and that bit of information made my whole week because it was a favorite show of mine. We got to talking because I was on a kid’s game show in the ’90s and that was a Big Deal for my elementary school friends. Does anyone else have any coworkers who had a brush of fame?

    1. Manders*

      My grandboss regularly gets to hang out with the Seahawks because she’s involved in a lot of charitable programs. I’m super jealous (but also proud of her for being so generous).

      I know someone who accidentally held Jeff Bezos’s hand once during a fire drill. It was a very awkward moment for both of them.

      1. hermit crab*

        I know someone who accidentally held Jeff Bezos’s hand once during a fire drill. It was a very awkward moment for both of them.

        Is there more to this story? Why were people holding hands during a fire drill? Why does Jeff Bezos participate in fire drills when all the managers at my (much, much smaller than Amazon) company ignore them? I have so many questions!

      2. Windchime*

        My coworker has the guy who is the Center for the Seahawks as his next-door neighbor. I just think that’s so cool.

      1. Venus Supreme*

        JERSEY SHORE STILL IS MY FAVORITE TV SHOW EVER. I actually live in that area and I bumped into the cast on a couple occasions, but without the cameras around. What season were you on?!

        1. Temperance*

          I was on an ep in 2010. I’m just in the background because I was drinking at a bar with the cast, lol. I can’t remember the name of the bar now, but they made it look like a club on the show. We had to pay $20 to get in, and the entry fee bought us like 5 drinks. I was so impressed that I was like the same size as all the men on the show, because I am not a tall lady.

          I love the shore and am so jealous of you for getting to live in the area!

      2. fposte*

        If I had to put together an AAM regular and a reality show, I would definitely not put together you and Jersey Shore :-).

    3. Nic*

      When I was a kid I was on a science show that was intended to replace traditional science class. It was space based, and had an experiment a few times a week. I was on the “crew” that introduced the experiments and did random other demonstrations.

      It was sold around the world, and I was recognized a few times as a kid, and once or twice as a young adult. Apparently it appeared on Public Broadcasting around midnight in my home town. I found it hilarious when people recognized me.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I used to work for a large entertainment company (in a really corporate capacity), so I’ve brushed WITH fame. In my hobby, I’ve done the same. I get asked a lot of really strange questions sometimes, but I do have some interesting stories. (T.I. touched me once. Not in any kind of rude or lascivious way, and it was pretty funny, but I do like telling that one.) I no longer live in NYC, so these stories are much more exciting than they used to be.

    5. Kowalski! Options!*

      Years ago (mid 1990s), one of my co-workers was on a 1980s Canadian Broadcasting Corporation show called Street Cents (IIRC) – money smarts for kids. She was only about 24-26 when she came to work at that company, and there was no mistaking who she was – she didn’t seem to have aged a bit from her time on air. The funnier part of that story is that she co-hosted the show with a guy who has had a recurring role on “Trailer Park Boys”.

      1. Al Lo*

        I loved that show! (Geeky Canadian kid in the early ’90s who didn’t watch a ton of other TV here…)

        They would look at different items, kind of like a kids’ consumer report, and then determine whether something was worth buying or a waste of money. If it was a waste, they would drop it into a steaming manhole in their set with the catchphrase, “This [insert object here] is fit….. for the pit!” I specifically remember an episode comparing a couple of brands of curling irons.

    6. ArtK*

      One of my co-workers is a celebrity chef. He’s been on Top Chef, Cutthroat Kitchen and Man v. Child: Chef Showdown. He was also very involved in the short film Well Done. He catered a couple of our company parties and boy were they good!

    7. NYSee*

      I was on a Food Network competition show and two of my coworkers have been on Jeopardy! (both lost)

      1. Venus Supreme*

        Haha, my 7th grade teacher kept trying to be on the show! Unfortunately she’s never gotten on. That’s so funny. Did you win the Food Network competition?

        1. NYSee*

          I did not. There were three of us, and I tied for second place with one of the other people. But the prize was a year’s supply of a particular junk food, so it’s probably for the best that I did not win.

      2. Dr. KMnO4*

        I also had a coworker on Jeopardy! I don’t think he won, but his episode aired before I knew him so I’m not sure.

      3. A la peanut butter sandwiches*

        That reminds me that I also had a coworker that was on Jeopardy. I worked someplace with an IMAX theatre and when the episodes aired we watched them on the IMAX screen.

    8. Viola Dace*

      I’ve had two colleagues who were formerly Playboy Bunnies. One of them once tried to teach all the women in our office how to do the “Bunny Dip”. AWKWARD.

      2. Rebecca in Dallas*

        As a big fan of the Girls Next Door, I have to say I’m pretty jealous!

        And no, the “bunny dip” is not anything like the bend & snap, it’s how the bunnies were supposed to set down a drink at the Playboy Club. You don’t bend over from the waist, you just kind of bend your knees and set it down from the side. I kind of hate that I know that.

    9. AndersonDarling*

      I had a boss whose sister was on Jerry Springer. Boss said that they were coached beforehand- told what to say to get the crowd mad. She told me so I wouldn’t think her relatives actually behaved that way, it was just a show.

    11. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

      I worked for Tribune Company when they also owned the Cubs, does that count? ; ) The players and coaches were all listed in the company’s online employee directory, and for the first year that I was there, several players had their personal cell phone numbers listed in the directory for any other Tribune employee to see! I never called any of them, but maybe some others did: at the beginning of the next season, the cell numbers were gone. (The only contact number was that of the main Cubs switchboard.)

    13. cookie monster*

      I worked with someone whose sister was on the biggest loser, and she flew out to be on one episode while we worked together…and was then recognized when she went to get lunch the next week.
      I was on a episode of “Wild On Boston” in my younger, crazier (embarrassing) days. A co worked when to high school with the producer and got us all VIP passes to the club it was being filmed in.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        On the young/crazy/embarrassing front, a woman who works at my dentist’s office was on Bad Girls Club! (She seems lovely.)

      2. Ann O.*

        I am told that I was on a Wild On… show, but I’ve never managed to see the episode. I was not doing anything embarrassing or crazy, though. I was doing a run-of-the-mill touristy thing in a non-English speaking country whie standing in a group that apparently looked very American. The crew approached us with the line “Do you speak Engli–of course you do.” They also didn’t identify themselves honestly, although we all knew who they were once they pulled out the branded interview mike.

    14. MsMaryMary*

      I used to work with a guy who had been on one of those cheesy blind date reality shows in the early 00s. Someone found a youtube clip of it and pretty much the entire office got to watch his blind date.

      I also worked for a professional sports team when I was a teenager. One of our managers went to a game on his night off, and he was shown on TV and the jumbotron doing a very silly dance with his girlfriend. We all saw it since we had TVs with the game on in our store.

      Personally, I appeared on a local high school quiz show back in the day. To my knowledge, the footage of that appearance does not survive. THANK GOD.

    15. Jillociraptor*

      I have a Jeopardy coworker here too. He did great!

      And a handful of college classmates who have had various levels of brushes with fame: one of the winners of a recent season of Amazing Race, a TV modeling competition participant (can’t remember which one…), two of the founders of the organization Indivisible, and an expert on despotism and authoritarianism who’s now in the news a bunch. I have to say, it’s super weird to be listening to a podcast and suddenly hear a friend’s voice, or scroll through Twitter and suddenly see a friend being retweeted by all kinds of political luminaries…

    16. fposte*

      We’ve had a few Jeopardy contestants (that’s academics for you) and currently have one of the leading wheelchair racers in the world.

    17. JustaTech*

      My husband’s coworker’s fiancee was on What Not To Wear. That was fun because my husband knew all the bits of the show because I watched it. We didn’t end up going to the reveal party because it was really late at a bar with no A/C on a super hot summer day.
      Her episode ended up being one of the kind of awkward ones and I felt bad for her.

      1. Venus Supreme*

        My sister was on Ambush Makeover in 2003 (similar to What Not to Wear, but they… ambush you out of nowhere). They confronted my sister while she was on vacation and the makeover took half a day. She hated her reveal so much & she cried when she got home. I would too! We’re both natural redheads and they dyed her hair blonde.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I told my sister and mum if they tried to get me on any of those shows I would never speak to them again. You’ll take away my nerd t-shirts over my cold, dead body.

    18. Menacia*

      I learned recently a coworker of mine was on the Gong Show. Wish I could find a YouTube of her on the show!

    19. Elizabeth West*

      A coworker had a local friend who was on Fear Factor. She told me about it and when the episode would air and asked me to watch it in support of her friend. It was the first and last time I’ve ever seen that show. The friend had to eat live snails, shells and all. I got up and went in the kitchen to do the dishes during that segment because it made me want to gag.

      She ended up winning, by the way!

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Oh, and this is Brad Pitt’s hometown; I’ve met his brother a couple of times, once when he had a computer store and I bought a machine there and another time when he came into OldExjob to see my boss. The brother is very nice. Haven’t run into Brad. I’m sure I probably know someone who went to high school with him here, though no one has mentioned it.

        1. Venus Supreme*

          What a small world!! A coworker here has family friends who live in Brad Pitt’s hometown. They’re best friends with his parents. My coworker and I got to hear Brad’s POV regarding the whole Angelina divorce.

          Also unrelated, but have you ever seen Killer Karaoke? It reminds me of Fear Factor a little bit (without the whole eating-snails-alive thing) but the contestants have to belt out their favorite tune while completing tasks. I think it’s the funniest thing ever.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            No, I don’t watch reality TV except for Judge Judy.

            Ha, that’s funny. I don’t know the rest of the family; I didn’t grow up here. I’ve only met his brother. Whenever Brad and Angelina and the kids came to visit, it always made the paper. See how lame this place is? :P

    20. Hey Anonny, nonny*

      I was in the film Lolita when they made it with Jeremy Irons (such a nice person) and Melanie Griffith (no comment).
      Also I’ve performed in Carnegie Hall, don’t know if that counts.

    21. Jen in Oregon*

      I was on an episode of Food Paradise several years ago. Seeing myself on television was the wake-up call that inspired me to make lifestyle changes that led to a not insignificant weight loss, so while it was embarrassing in the short run, it was good in the long run.

    22. HannahS*

      Not a coworker, but I knew a couple who were on Property Brothers. Seeing as they were an Orthodox Jewish couple, the producers made them dance a hora around the dining room table with the two guys. It was cringey-funny. The house is great though!

      1. Venus Supreme*

        I’m such a fan of the brothers!! I hope they’re as nice in person as they are on camera.

        1. HannahS*

          lol I felt SO betrayed when I learned that they were actors and not actually a contractor and a realtor.

          1. Fact & Fiction*

            What?!?!?!

            My brushes with “fame”:

            Meeting the new generation of Osmonds in the 80s when we were super young and they performed st the St. Louis VP Fair, then eating them again as a college freshman at a dance because my friend went to their temple in Branson where they performed st the Odmond’s theater there. I got to dance with one (of course my 18-year-old self thought he was adorable) and we all went out to Denny’s afterward.

            I worked with anon-law of Captain Kangaroo (may he Rest In Peace).

            A friend of my sister’s was on My 600-pound Life.

            That’s all I can think of unless you are a book and/or Science fiction/fantasy geek and count rubbing elbows with some of my fave authors at writing/Reader/SF conventions. Both Nora Roberts and Jayne Ann Krentz/AManda Quick congratulated me on making my first sale when I popped by a party put pub three at RWA National, which made my trip! I’ve met several others of my writing idols (like Jim Butcher, Kelley Armstrong, and Richelle Mead) but those ladies are probably the most “famous” for general audiences.

            1. Fact & Fiction*

              Um I’m typing on my phone – obviously I didn’t “eat” them… that was supposed to say “meeting”.

    24. JanetM*

      I work in academia, so I know many people who have, for example, published books or been on impressive advisory councils. I worked for someone who’d been asked by one of his professional associations to write a book summarizing his life’s research (I typed up all his handwritten notes, tables, and figures into camera-ready copy). I have been on television or in the newspaper several times in my role as a union activist, as have many of my coworkers.

      And I have a friend who recently won two games of _Jeopardy!_.

    25. SaraV*

      I went to school with Paula Faris, who’s on The View and on weekend GMA. She was a year ahead of me. Really nice person.

    26. Woman of a Certain Age*

      About twenty years ago I lived in the L.A. area and registered as for a clerical temp position. A few days later I was surprised to get a call from the agency to be an extra on the old TV show, “Unsolved Mysteries,” so of course I said, “yes.” I, and a bunch of other people, showed up at a tv/film studio production office. On the TV show, after running a film clip of a reenactment of the crime or situation surrounding the mystery, Robert Stack (who was narrating the program) would ask for help from the general public and a phone number would flash on the TV screen. Robert Stack would appear standing in front of the “call center.” There really was a call center someplace, but it was not the one that was shown on TV with Robert Stack standing in front of it.

      The call center on TV was used as an office 4 days a week, and then as a TV set for the call center on Friday. Also, Robert Stack was only filmed from his knees up and below the trench coat he was wearing running shoes. (They looked like New Balance.) We were told not to speak to Robert Stack, so we didn’t and it was all pretty professional. As an extra I sat behind him on the set and pretended to be answering the phone and typing information into a turned-off computer terminal. I had dressed up for the show, in a suit with a jacket (with big puffy power sleeves) , so I was chosen to be a “supervisor” which meant that in some scenes I was shown walking around the call center carrying a clipboard and “advising” other people who were sitting at the computer terminals pretending to answer phones.

      We had a lunch break, but as extras we didn’t get a catered lunch and had to leave the studio and most of us went to fast food restaurants a few blocks away, then came back. It wasn’t too demanding and kind of fun. We made a little bit more than minimum wage. I saw myself on TV a couple of months later. Also, Robert Stack had his son there with him who was very handsome and who looked like a younger version of Robert.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Ha, fun! I actually met one of the criminals who was on that show, before they caught him. He came into the restaurant where I worked and I waited on him. Didn’t realize it until about a week later, when they re-aired the segment. Boy, you should have seen me fly to a phone!

      2. ancolie*

        AAAHHHHH I loved Unsolved Mysteries! Do you mind saying what episode(s) you were in, if you remember?

        1. Woman of a Certain Age*

          All I really remember about the show was that in the episode I appeared in there was a segment about a mystery called “The Lady of the Lake,” which recounted a tale of a woman who supposedly drowned under mysterious circumstances in a lake near her summer home and that her ghost haunted the house, the lake and the land around the lake. I believe this happened in the 1920s or in about that time period.

    27. Oscar Madisoy*

      I’m one of the “faces in the crowd” on the back cover of Bruce Springsteen’s “Live In New York City” album.

    28. Windchime*

      I used to work with a lady who had been a contestant on The Dating Game back in the 70’s.

  33. Anon for this*

    How long after starting a new job do you wait before suggesting changes? As a rule of thumb, I usually don’t until 3 weeks or so in, mainly just to make sure that there isn’t a reason things are done that way that I would feel stupid for not knowing.

    We recently had someone start who is switching industries from teapot production to rice sculpture design. Very shortly after starting (think hours) she told supervisors in my department that we would no longer use rice for our sculptures as wheat was way better, and the rice suppliers would of course source the wheat for us. The supervisors are uneasy as this would result in no more job for them. I’m delicately trying to explain that perhaps it would make sense to continue with rice and maybe don’t scare my people into looking for new jobs. Aarrgh.

    1. Allypopx*

      That’s super obnoxious. Can you address just the last part of that? Is there any kind of dynamic where you can point out she shouldn’t be talking to your department directly and that kind of news should come through you? Either way that sounds like a rough adjustment.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      For me, it depends on how drastic the suggestion is. If it’s a minor tweak, I will usually start suggesting changes two months in. If it’s a major overhaul, I’ll wait a year before making the suggestion. Even though I always think my suggestions are great and will make things more efficient, there are sometimes I don’t have the full story on why the organization has always done things a certain way.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      Hours after starting and she made suggestions?! Totally inappropriate and out of line. You wouldn’t be amiss to say something like “Jane, I appreciate that you’re trying to help, but we use rice in our sculptures. This is our job. Let’s focus on getting you up to speed.”

      Personally, I waited six months before I began making suggestions about processes at my current job. Still, I am very cautious to be confident in my idea, have supporting information to back myself up, etc.

      Your new employee is showing a big red flag. Be careful!

    4. Natalie*

      What level is this new person at? Since the supervisors are uneasy and you are trying to be delicate it sounds like they might be upper management?

      1. Tuckerman*

        If the person is an upper management role, she may have brought in TO make changes that are best for the organization but not necessarily popular for the group (i.e. because it would lead to lay-offs).

      2. Anon for this*

        She’s the head of her department, but not part of the leadership team. I’m certain she was brought in to make some changes, but I think some of the initial things she was mandating for us have nothing to do with the changes she’s been told to work on…and she’s not part of our department and definitely should not be ordering changes for us. My boss is new also and I’ve already pushed back on several things and I think irritated her in the process, so I don’t want to waste a lot of capital on someone who seems like she might be set to annoy people even above my boss.

        I do think leadership may have already stepped in to tone her down. I hope it sticks.

        1. Natalie*

          Yeah, so if she’s above you there isn’t anything here for you to do. It sounds like she might be a bit artless, but this isn’t your problem to solve.

            1. Natalie*

              Ah. Well in that case I’m not sure you need to be super delicate. Are these supervisors who are getting uneasy your employees? Because that’s a fantastic reason to address it directly with her.

    5. Ramona Flowers*

      Whaaat? That’s not what she was hired for!

      In answer to your question, I think 3 weeks is still too early. A couple of months maybe. But it depends on the job.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yep, I’d wait a bit. At Exjob, one of my first responsibilities was to redesign the department template. I got a lot of pushback in that first meeting, but my boss backed me up; that’s why she hired me. Anything more than that waited until I’d been there a while, since I needed to understand more about my department before I could suggest anything.

    6. Newsie*

      New Boss just did that. Said that all rice sculptors would have to change their in time drastically, about 3 weeks after she started. Of the 10 or so sculptors on staff, 5 are now looking for new jobs. I tried to do the same by explaining our concerns, but New Boss’s response essentially just sounded like “I hear you, those are valid concerns, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.”

      Good luck! I hope your supervisor listens better than mine does…

  34. Manders*

    I’m so, SO thankful for the thread on gut feelings this week. I was offered a job that looked great on paper, but I couldn’t shake the nagging feeling that something was off. HR had a weird hiring process and didn’t seem respectful of my time, the very old company in a conservative industry was in the middle of a messy transition to a startup-y office environment for no clear reason, and I just couldn’t click with the person who would be my boss. Plus, the role seemed poorly defined and every single person on my 8-person, 4-hour panel interview had their own idea of where it should go.

    It looked SO great on paper! But I listened to my gut and turned it down.

    1. Venus Supreme*

      I’m glad you listened to your gut! Based on your description I would’ve told you to run too. They sound way too chaotic.

  35. Fronzel Neekburm*

    I have a question for the commenters..

    So, I have had a rough go the past couple of years. I had a full time job that was wildly out of my future plans and I was there for about 7 years. I found a job that matched up with what I wanted to do for the future (not perfectly, but stepping stone.) but the person who claimed to be my supervisor ended up being wildly abusive – texting me at home on the weekends abusive. (And note i said “claimed to be”. I found out later that she was the supervisor of the previous person in my position, drove her out for being wildly abusive, then put my position under someone else and let her stay because she was otherwise good at her job.) I left after a year, and actually ended up back at my long-term job, contracted out for a year of work while i finished up school.

    I finished school, but it took me another few years. After that year, I ended up working a series of part time jobs. (some of which aligned with my goals.) After three years, i got a full time job, again – stepping stone (ish) to what I want to do. I’ve been at this job for about 9 months now.

    Well, after all this time, a job that is 100% what I want to do has opened up.

    My dilemma: If you look at my history, it appears I’m a job hopper – I’m not, I’m intensely loyal. I hit a good run of bad luck. I’m wondering if I should stick this one out (it’s still stepping stoneish) or if I should apply, and risk having another new job.

    Thoughts?

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I would apply and see where it goes. Yes, it looks job-hopperish, slightly, but I personally view that very differently when it’s someone who obviously finished school and went through the usual struggle to get their career on track than when it’s someone who’s been in the professional world for a decade and hops around for no reason. And if you emphasize that they were part-time jobs, that picture gets even clearer. You could even mention that in your cover letter – “I’m thrilled to be applying for this position, as I’ve been striving for a career in [field] ever since I graduated in [year], through a series of positions that gave me experience but didn’t fully align with my goals.”

      Worst case scenario is, you stay at a stepping stone job, best case, you get to yank the golden ring!

    2. fposte*

      I don’t think it’s quite as hoppy as you think, especially if you present it appropriately. You have work history before school, which is mostly at the 7 year place, and then you have part-time work, which is work that comes and goes by nature. Now you’ve been tempted by a really perfect opportunity.

      School really is a big reset, so when hiring I wouldn’t care much about your year with the hated job; I would worry more about whether you were fired from/voluntarily walking away from the part time jobs for reasons that matter to me now. If you left because you were Christmas help, the grant money ran out, the office moved too far to commute to, etc., I wouldn’t care.

    3. Celeste*

      If you aren’t happy where you are and know you won’t stay, I think it makes sense to apply where you think you’ll be happier and finally want to stay. At least check it out.

    5. Chaordic One*

      Definitely apply! Please!

      You don’t think you’re a job hopper. I (and most of the other commenters) don’t think you are a job hopper. It’s very likely that the people at 100% job will NOT think you are a job hopper. You don’t have anything to lose and an awful lot to gain by applying.

      Do some research about the employer and review the cover letter, resume and interview tips Allison has here at AAM. Have some good questions to ask when you a get an interview. Look at the interview as a “learning experience” to find out more about the employer and the position. Even if you don’t get an offer, it is still excellent experience. Good luck!

    6. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      I think you should apply. You never know what will happen, and you have nothing to lose.

      It’s also ok to exclude some of the shorter-term gigs if you don’t feel like they advance your resume (it sounds like they’re broadly in your field and help explain what would otherwise be gaps, so this advice may not be helpful). Your pre-school work experience, and the fact that it’s super normal for a person to jump around a lot while in school, means that your resume is less job hopper-ish than I think you think it is.

    7. msmorlowe*

      If these part-time jobs were fixed contract, you’re not going to look like a job-hopper if you make that clear on your resume/CV. Something like “November 2016 – February 2017, TopClothes, Sales Assistant (seasonal position)” or “Feb 2016 – Aug 2016, Smith & Smith, Receptionist (temp position)” will look absolutely fine. Good luck!

    8. theletter*

      Apply!!!!

      Early in my career, I had an opportunity to apply to a dream job. I didn’t take it because I was 5 months into an OK job and I didn’t want to seem like a job hopper. Six months later I was desperately searching for a new job – the OK job had turned into a torture factory, and that dream job opportunity was all all filled up.

  36. yarr pirate*

    So, our head boss sent an email to our department stating that our assistants should “Manage Up” and that the morale and financial standing of the entire company was depending on them (and the teapot makers they report to). Does this strike anyone else as really terrible? One of the head teapot makers was quietly demoted recently but there’s been a long history of the assistants having to pick up way more slack than usual in our industry.

    1. Manders*

      That’s gross. Good assistants do often have to manage up, but there’s a difference between someone finding an efficient way to do things on their own and being blamed for a morale problem and company-wide problems.

      1. Artemesia*

        Perhaps management should be managing i.e. ‘managing down’ so that minions would not have to be ‘managing up’ a bunch of difficult incompetent supervisors. Just an idea.

    2. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      That strikes me as unbelievably noxious, irritating, and demeaning.

    3. Ann Furthermore*

      It is gross. In my experience “managing up” is code for “ass-kissing.” The CFO at my old company would do this with the higher-ups at the parent company. We were all buried under work, unable to keep up, and he refused to hire any more people, or even backfill positions when people left. He wanted to be seen as the guy with the awesome team of 20 rock stars who could do the work of 50 people and never make a mistake. Guess what? It didn’t work out that way. Ugh. It was so frustrating.

      1. Manders*

        For me, “manage up” means something more along the lines of “figure out why your boss is letting stuff fall through the cracks and find a way to make that not happen.” I think it *can* happen in a healthy workplace, but being ordered to do it is a sign that something is wrong with the organization.

        1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

          Yeah, in this case, I suspect it’s code for “So, unfortunately, the men we pay six figures to run things here are incompetent goofballs who let more slip through the cracks than actually gets done, so all you competent women who we only pay $60k a year need to scurry around in the background to make them look good enough that their failures are only visible internally. Hop to it.”

      2. Chaordic One*

        Yes, I was going to say, “kiss up,” as in “kiss up, kick down.” (It only works for middle management, not assistants, and not for very long at that.)

    4. Actuarial Octagon*

      During my recent job search, I was at an interview where they spent a good portion of the time talking about how a person in the position would be required to “manage up” and “read the minds” of their managers. I gracefully declined.

    5. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      This is a bullshit thing for your head boss to send, and it’s really demeaning and somewhat cruel. It’s also just flat out ludicrous to suggest that “the morale and financial standing of the entire company” depends on assistants’ ability to “manage up.” I don’t think he knows what any of those words mean.

  37. Lucy*

    I have a diagnosed mental health issue I am working really hard to treat. That could be considered a disability under the equality act (am in UK). When I first started here it was great but it has gone downhill and is really effecting my mental health (plus the state of the world). Our team of 8 has been 4 people since december. Our manager went on maternity leave and the temp replacement ended up being an alcoholic who made racist and sexist remarks and was manipulative and borderline verbally abusive at times. In the last year I have had 20 days of sickness absence, 5 for a preplanned surgery that I had to list as sick time so it would get paid. I have missed 3 days for a bad cold. 7 of the other 11 days were related to my mental health. I am trying to get a new stable role because they have announced plans to move the office 3 hours away. My boss has mentioned that HR will disclose my sickness to any new role. I have interviews for 2 places next week. Do you think I should bring it up first? Should I request to HR that they not disclose my disability related days? My past roles before that will show a much better attendance level than this. What if anything should I do?

    1. Junior Dev*

      What does she mean by “disclose my sickness?” The fact that you have a mental illness? That you took sick days?

      2. Lucy*

        The sick days. She means she will have to tell them as she thinks its too many days (15 in a year doesnt seem terrible to me after you remove the surgery). She said she was just trying to make me aware so I am mindful of not being out. Which made it sound like she doesnt believe I actually needed to be out which is a total different issue. But it sounded like a threat that about losing future jobs with the pretense of helping.

        1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          The fact that she would threaten you in this way makes me really angry. She’s not obligated to tell them anything, let alone spew her her ableist biases about whether it’s ok for you to use sick days to which you are entitled because they’re part of your compensation. Is this the abusive temp, or is this your boss who was out on parental leave?

          Do you have a functional HR department? I don’t know anything about UK disability law (which may apply), but her threats sound like she’s retaliating against you on the basis of your disability. And assuming your sick days were within the days you receive as part of your job, she really shouldn’t have any say whatsoever in whether you used “too many” of them, regardless whether you have a disability or not. It’s not like you were malingering.

          She sounds horrid, and I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for a transfer, stability, and some reprieve.

    2. Caro in the UK*

      I wasn’t sure if this is legal or not in the UK so I did a bit of Google-fu.

      It seems that The Equality Act 2010 prevents employers from asking job applicants about disabilities, health or sickness absence prior to being offered a job. BUT, they can ask your references about it.

      However, you could be protected if your mental health issue can be classed as a disability, because if the reason for his sickness absence is caused by or is related to a disability, employers cannot discriminate (and the Equality Act 2010 applies to job applicants as well as employees).

      So your boss /HR could tell and potential employer about your sickness absence, but if a job offer were pulled because of it, you could be protected under the Act. In light of this I’d ask prospective employers not to contact your current employer for references until you have an offer, that should hopefully protect you.

      2. Ramona Flowers*

        Your Google-fu isn’t quite correct.

        They can ask you about disability as an applicant – because they can ask whether you require any reasonable adjustments (akin to ADA adjustments) to attend the interview. It’s good practice for this to be kept separate from the information the hiring panel sees.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      I just want to suggest you maybe contact the Remploy/Access to Work scheme for mental health. They can support you for six months in a new job (help advise on accommodations, regular contact for support) and it can be kept confidential from your employer if you do choose.

      Also, you can get free advice from Mind, ACAS and the Equality Advisory Service.

        1. Lucy*

          Thanks I will contact them. I have a feeling the next job shod be okay since my previous jobs were okay and this one was until it became toxic.

          I just dont want to lose a potential job over this.

    4. Chaordic One*

      It does not sound you’ve used your sick days excessively. If asked about such things (and you probably won’t be) I might say something along the lines of:

      “In the recent past I have had some health issues, which I have taken care of, which are now in the past and which I do not expect to recur in the foreseeable future.”

  38. Ennigaldi*

    I work in a cubicle complex and am getting a new neighbor today. Problem is, she and my current neighbor bicker constantly – when they assigned these desks two years ago, they specifically moved them far apart. But now there’s new management and they want everyone in close quarters…so what are some scripts I can use for “please knock off the passive-aggressive jabs, I do need to concentrate today”? (I’ve been here three months, they have both been here multiple years through multiple department upheavals, they are not leaving)

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      How about asking them to please take their conversation out in the hall, as it’s breaking your concentration/audible to clients on the phone? They won’t, of course, because that would take all the passiveness out of their little passive-aggressive war, but it’s an eminently reasonable request that they will have trouble pushing back on.

    2. LCL*

      What’s wrong with “please knock off the passive-aggressive jabs, I do need to concentrate today”?

      1. Mephyle*

        They will deny, deny. “What do you mean, passive-agressive, not me, no sir.”
        But they can’t deny that they’re having a conversation.

  39. Confused*

    So at work, we’re spinning off a shelter we used to run into its own agency–it’ll be it’s own 501c(3), own CEO, own board of directors, etc. It used to be part of my departments functions but it’s just grown too much to not be it’s own thing. I haven’t been involved in the daily functions of it for some time but I used to be, and I’m not as swamped as the employees that are currently running it (since they’re ass deep in alligators working with clients and the move to being their own thing).

    So I’ve been going through and going through old client records and trying to determine who gets which records and what data (and they’re migrating to a whole different software to better work with HMIS too). Going through all the old records of clients that have died is getting me into a really deep funk. My normal self care isn’t really helping either. I’d lost track of the sheer number over the years. I can’t take any PTO right now–it’ll probably be a month before the situation’s calmed down enough for me to take a couple days. Not sure how I’m going to get through this. I’ve got another 2-3 years of records left to go through, then I’ve got to start working with IT to look at disentangling all our computer equipment and we’ll have to figure out who gets what (shard printers, network drives, etc) and how we’ll have to move them/replace them, all the little details. Maybe I won’t go crazy?

    1. TJ*

      Is there someone you can split the work with so you don’t have to look through all the records yourself? Even if you have to take on some of their tasks instead, at least you won’t have to be doing this incredibly emotionally draining thing all day. If not, do you have an EAP? Definitely worth using in this kind of situation.

      Either way, this sounds really hard.

      1. TCO*

        Really good suggestions. Also, if you have a good relationship with your boss, bring this to her. Many organizations would want to know when an employee is struggling emotionally with their work and at risk of burnout. Maybe she could find a way to get you even a partial day off or otherwise lighten the emotional load. And if you have some trusted colleagues, debrief with them, too. I’ve worked the housing/homelessness field and I know that some days it’s just really heavy, hard stuff. There’s no way to avoid that. Is your data work also showing you any hopeful stories of clients who have been successful in improving their health or housing situation? Is there a way to post a few reminders of those at your desk–maybe even a story or photo from an recent newsletter or something like that?

        1. Confused*

          My boss is on medical leave, which is kind of compounding things. I don’t know when they’ll be back. We found out from our CEO one morning last week, and they’ve been out since then. I know they’ve had some health problems because I can hear them throw up in their office sometimes and they’ve been looking like hell for at least a month.

          We don’t have an EAP at all, unfortunately. I’ll try to find happy stories in client records though. Maybe that’ll help. Remind myself that sometimes we win.

          1. Celeste*

            Reframing is smart. So is finding someone to talk to so you aren’t psychically “carrying” this around all the time.

            My only other rec is to divide the tasks up and work on one thing at a time so you can see the list getting shorter. The hardest thing for me is to doing a little bit of everything all the time, and never feel like I’m seeing progress toward the finish line. Getting to 50% and 75% works magic for me.

            Finally, if you can work yourself any kind of little reward, that’s helpful too. I don’t know what your currency is, but you do, and if ever a stick needed a carrot, this is the time! Wishing you all the luck with this hard time.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Is there any way that you can read less of the records? Can you scan for certain information? Can you make yourself stop reading once you have enough inputs to know your decision on the file?
      Can you pace out the work so that you turn and look at other things during the day? I know for me, at Old Job, I did the hard stuff in the morning and the more mundane tasks in the afternoon when I was more apt to be tired.

      What do you do at night to empty out your brain? At one point I was sorting records that were horrible, absolutely awful. I bought brain candy books to read at night, feel good stuff like Chicken Soup books.
      You may like to consider a drink with electrolytes in it. This type of heavy stuff pulls vitamins and minerals out of us thought our upset/concern , so replenishing some may help.

  40. SMT*

    Has anyone set up ‘corporate sponsorships’ with charities before? My boss decided that he wants to have a couple of campaigns in the next year where we donate a portion of our profits to charities (and he let us choose the charities, which is cool), but in trying to start setting this up, I’m realizing that we need to submit applications to be able to say that we are donating to them. Any advice?

    1. Temperance*

      It’s a large part of what I do!

      Honestly, the easiest way to get the ball rolling is to reach out to someone in Development at the charity to ask for help. It’s their job to help you, and I’m a huge believer in passing the buck whenever possible.

    2. Manders*

      My advice:

      1) Try to find contact information for the person who handles charitable giving so you can work with them directly. Smaller charities may have one person handling this. Larger ones may have someone handling a branch or a region.

      2) Make sure your marketing team is in the loop. They will be the ones promoting your connection to the charity. They may also have some requests you aren’t aware of (for instance: this kind of sponsorship is a really great SEO opportunity, but the charity’s site has to link to your site in a particular way). They’ll need to know details like whether they’re allowed to use the charity’s logo in a blog post, whether they can talk about donations to the charity on social media, whether the charity would also like help promoting some of their programs, etc.

      3) Do some research into prospective charities and make sure you’re not stepping on any political landmines (unless your boss is ok with making a political statement with this program). For instance: the Boy Scouts seem like a pretty tame organization, but some people believe their leadership is distasteful. Some (but not all!) of the big awareness-type organizations also have a complicated reputation.

    3. Grits McGee*

      If visibility is a component of this, you might want to focus on smaller organizations with a local mission area. $10,000 is chump change to a huge organization like the United Way, but that amount could have a huge impact for a small local organization.

    4. Professional Cat Lady*

      I work at a small non-profit (not directly in the development office, but I have enough contact with them). I agree with everyone else in the thread – talk to Development. We have a standard third party fundraiser agreement that we ask anyone throwing a benefit on our behalf to sign – it helps us manage who is doing it (we want to make sure the orgs and people we’re working with align with our mission and our donors). If the benefit is expected to raise over a certain dollar amount, we’ll open up to using our own social media/advertising time to help promote it. (reasoning being, we don’t want to crowd people’s timeline with things, we’re a popular local org.)

      The development offices will be thrilled to help you out with something like this, and they likely have procedures set up to help you with branded materials and anything else you might need.

    5. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      Like everyone else, I would recommend just going to the Development Department and letting them know your plans and they’ll help walk you through the process as we each have our procedure. Something that is helpful for me when corporate groups approach us is when they know if there are certain things that they are looking for with their donation. That might be being able to use our logo on your site, attendance at events, volunteer events for your employees, any social media or marketing recognition. Your CEO may not have even thought of this or care but it’s something that is really helpful to be aware of so that everyone on your team feels like they’re getting what they want from the donation.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Look at the goals of the organization in relationship to your company. There are some sponsorships that just do not make sense, in the best case scenario, and in worst case scenario would not be beneficial to your company nor the org. Be prepared that some organizations may say that right out loud.

      It’s a good idea to review your company mission statement and company goals and consider how your company impacts the community that houses it. This does not have to be a belabored thing but a review would put this info at the forefront of your thinking which will be handy as you go along.

  41. Am I overreacting?*

    A friend/coworker has been having some attendance/performance problems. The weird thing is that our supervisor is complaining to everyone about their problems. He complained to me that someone missed a deadline (and then told me which project it was, which tells me it was my friend). He’s loudly made sarcastic comments about friend’s attendance in the middle of the cubefarm (she was getting a cup of coffee from the breakroom 5 minutes before a meeting, and he assumed that she skipped work that day and missed the meeting).

    It just seems really unprofessional to me. When he complained directly to me I went back to him a day or two later and told him that he shouldn’t complain to me about stuff like that so that I can tell who it is, and he apologized, but he’s still pretty vocal about his frustration with her performance.

    1. Ann Furthermore*

      That is uncool and unprofessional. He should be addressing his concerns directly with your co-worker, and not broadcasting his problems with her to everyone else.

    2. Jan Levinson*

      Yes, that is definitely inappropriate.

      Do you know if he’s approached the issues with your friend/coworker? Either way, he should not be discussing this with you! I think you did the right thing by pushing back and telling him not to complain about your coworker to you.

      1. Am I overreacting?*

        He has addressed the issue with her (she’s working on it, but it’s health related so taking a long time to sort out).

    3. KL*

      Nope, that’s pretty unprofessional. He needs to either speak directly with your friend or your friend’s supervisor (depending on how your company does that).

    4. EddieSherbert*

      I’d just keep restating stuff along that line…

      “I’m not sure that I’m the one you should be talking to about this.”
      “I don’t really know anything about X, maybe you should ask Friend.”
      “Sorry, but I’m not sure why you’re telling me this. Do you want me to cover X?” (I’m not sure of a polite way to ask if he wants you to do something about it, but I feel like if you force him into a couple “no, I’m just venting…” responses, that might be enough to make him stop).

      Or even just “I actually I need to get back to work/back to this email/whatever.”

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      Totally unprofessional. When my coworker’s absences negatively impact me, I speak with her about them, or go to our boss. I DO NOT discuss the problems openly.

    6. Camellia*

      My supervisor tells everything to everyone. And complains all the time. But if you directly ask her something, she will lie.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      There’s lots of bosses out there like this.

      Each and every time, I think I would say something like, “Did you talk with her?”

      He is basically saying. “I don’t know how to manage people.” A good and skilled boss does not handle problems this way.

    8. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      There are bosses who do this—one of my favorite bosses did this—and I still think it’s inappropriate and unprofessional. I would actually be even more stark with him. It’s not a problem that he complained to you about stuff in a way that allowed you to identify who he was complaining about. The problem is he’s complaining to you, his direct report, about his frustrations with your friend, another of his direct reports (and I assume your peer).

      He needs to rein it in. He doesn’t get to be frustrated and to complain to the employees he supervises, particularly not if your friend’s performance is tied to a health issue (which I presume might qualify for legal protection, depending on what’s going on with her).

      So I would draw a line/boundary with him, saying something like, “I don’t know how to respond when you complain about my peers, and it makes me uncomfortable, puts all of us in a difficult position and brings down morale.” etc., etc. And if it continues and you have a decent HR department, I would consider escalating to HR. Not as a formal “complaint,” but more as a “I’m having this problem, can you help me figure out how to fix it?” thing.

  42. Junior Dev*

    I’m one of three people in my team designing a particular feature for the new website (we are software developers). My two co-workers, A and B, have been working on related but different logic and data models for it. I took co-worker A’s ideas, adapted them somewhat, and created a sample user interface. Our boss and co-worker B seemed to like what I did.

    Now I’m concerned because B said some stuff about “A and I should work on combining our data models” but 1) I have changed them 2) I want to be included in those conversations. The three of us sit in the same corner of the cubicle, but I wear headphones because otherwise I can’t concentrate. I’m pretty sure A and B are having a lot of verbal conversations about it. They are fairly good friends it seems like (I’ve only been here a few months).

    I’m also concerned there’s this weird fallacy going on that data models are somehow pure and separate from user interface (A even got annoyed when I first announced I wanted to build an interface) when in my view, the interface should be what drives the data model.

    Any advice to make sure I don’t get left out (but also can get other work done)? It feels like a lot of design decisions are being made informally and I’d really like to have better conversations about them, but it’s hard because those conversations tend to devolve into people adamantly defending very vague ideas.

    1. Judy (since 2010)*

      Well, at least in my world, the data models should make sense with expected interfaces, but they shouldn’t drive them.

      For example, we track temperature. We’ve standardized on a certain scaling of temperature. It doesn’t matter if a particular project wants degrees F, degrees C, ranges (hot, OK, cold), etc. That’s just the interface. The data is the same for all of the projects.

      I’ve always worked on embedded systems, so the user interfaces were just informational, while the system algorithms were what needed consistent data modeling.

    2. RG*

      Have you said anything to them? Like hey guys, when you have discussions about site architecture, can you let me know so I can at least listen? Maybe it’s worth seeing if you can grab a conference room to discuss these things.

      Also, as far as making changes to the data models based on the interfaces, that’s normal. Code is like a plan, it always changes after the first contact.

    3. LS*

      I’ve had similar experiences. What worked for me was to raise this in a non-confrontational, information-seeking way in a status meeting, standup, or whatever your regular catch up sessions are. So for example you can mention that you are not sure that you are in the loop about xyz, and can someone please update you. Or that you need to update the UI to reflect the latest version of the data model.

      As to whether the data model drives the UI or the other way around, that depends. A new product which doesn’t reflect an existing reality (e.g. a game) vs providing an interface to an existing system (e.g. banking or travel) vs creating something that reflects an aspect of The Real World TM such as a recipe site or a book cataloging tool – these would all require different approaches – but you are correct that the interface should always have some influence over the data model.

  43. MuseumChick*

    What would you do in this situation. You are new to a company (less than one year in), your boss generally let’s you do your own thing but every now and then pops up with a somewhat unreasonable demanded that you usually find a way to make work. There has been an ongoing project (since before you started with the company) that has been continuously held up for various reason. The CFO of your company is the point person on this project. You boss has been tasked with organizing/clearing out an area of the building and is getting pressure to make that happening very quickly. The CFO’s project is hindering that. You boss comes to you and tells you to basically find a way to circumvent the CFO and get the project done. What do you do?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      This is a bit tricky, and a lot of how you should handle this depends on the relationships you have. What’s your relationship like with the CFO? I would probably try to get my boss to communicate with the CFO about things. If I didn’t think that would happen, I’d communicate with the CFO directly and say “My boss has asked me to do this.” If your boss then yells at you for telling the CFO you’re circumventing her and getting the project done, then your boss is a jerk, and there isn’t a real solution apart from looking for another job.

    2. Celeste*

      Sounds like the powers that be want this thing done. Is it something you can handle, or is the CFO the main part of the problem? Do you think you can get the CFO on your side to help you get it done?

      1. MuseumChick*

        I don’t think there is anyway to get it done that won’t offend the CFO. Luckily I spoke with him today and casually brought up the project. I got a completely different story from him than what my boss implied. So now I really don’t know what to do.

        1. Celeste*

          I am so sorry you have been put in the middle of this, MuseumChick. It sounds like the project isn’t the half of it.

          1. MuseumChick*

            Well, it’s finally kind of worked out. I will be taking over the project but I got my boss to actually talk to the CFO (without me in the room) instead of just doing it behind his back. I’m coming off two 6 months jobs (an internship and part-time job that I had while looking for full time work) so I want to try and stay here at least 2 -3 years. But this whole thing has made me really nervous.

  44. gwal*

    I used the wrong approach to informational interviewing as a job-seeker a few years ago when I was on the job market, and this site has particularly helped me to understand where I went wrong. Now that I am more settled, and in a position that would still be well-suited to network with a particular individual I met in those days, is there any way I can (in a big city where taking time to do a coffee-chat can be inconvenient) atone for my mistake or otherwise patch up the connection with that individual?

    1. gwal*

      (wrong as in, requested and got some time with a person at an org where I was applying for a job. didn’t get that job, did get one that’s relevant, and am not looking to leave my org at present–just want to try maintaining an OK relationship with this person!)

      1. Natalie*

        This doesn’t sound terribly egregious, actually, so it’s not clear to me that there’s any patching up that needs doing. Do you have some specific reason to think that the relationship was damaged?

        1. gwal*

          I was brand new to the city, to post-grad school work, and to the field. I’ve never crossed paths with her again and just want to make it clear that I’d like to be in touch with her, no job-hunting strings attached! There’s not a clear “in” to the conversation and I’m worried I made a bad impression :(

          1. Natalie*

            I’m not 100% sure I’m understanding the situation here, so I might be missing some detail. But it sounds like you believe you must have done something wrong because there was no further contact after the informational interview. But that’s really, really normal. There’s no reason to think you made a bad impression simply because you didn’t hear further from this person.

            If you have some plausible work reason to reach out to her again, do so. If you don’t, just wait and see if you run across each other at industry functions. Either way, you don’t need to think about this slightly awkward informational interview you did at the beginning of your career. Just set those bags down.

            1. gwal*

              Thanks! I am a constitutional worrier and one great thing about these open threads is the ability to get input from someone outside the situation. I’ll hope I run into her again, and not make the same mistake in the future!

              1. Lily Rowan*

                If you want to maintain light contact, the classic advice is to email a relevant article with a quick note like, “Saw this and thought of your work!” You could add something like, “Thanks again for speaking with me before — I’m now working at X, and it’s great.”

  45. Going Anon For This Jewel*

    I did something pretty awesome this week, and I’m going anon so I don’t accidentally out where I work.

    Part of my job is working with new graduate programs, like new majors, extending programs to other campuses, etc. Recently, we got a request and proposal to start offering an master’s in Financial Planning on another campus. My boss came by, sat down in my office, and asked for an update on new programs for us and the committee to review. Lord have mercy, why did I say that we had a proposal for a new program in Family Planning?

    We all had a good laugh about it. But my face was as red a a tomato for a little bit there.

    5. hermit crab*

      I love this! As the child of an OB/GYN with an I’m-so-excited-you-should-be-excited-too kind of personality, I know perhaps a little too much about family planning — but definitely not enough about financial planning. So, please do let me know if you ever offer a combination program, I can both learn and contribute. :)

  46. Nervous Accountant*

    No question or advice needed but TAX SEASON IS OVER YAYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I left work at midnight on Tuesday; this is the first season where I feel like I got all my stuff together–all my clients were taken care of. My boss praised me a lot and that felt super nice.

    Our tax season party was at a karaoke bar last night. Fun stuff!

    2. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      My husband spent the last 10 years in an accounting firm. Tax season is THE WORST. This was the first year he didn’t have to work tax season and it was such a huge difference. I’m so glad you survived both tax season and the party. I was always the designated driver for that event and spent allllllllll night chauffeuring.

  47. Office Mercenary*

    How much does a company’s reputation stick with you throughout your career? I have a second interview next week with the consulting division of a security contractor whose other divisions have done some seriously unethical and illegal things. If you Google the company’s name, the first few hits are news articles about past wrongdoing. However, this sort of behavior is pretty typical for that industry and they’re far from the worst offenders. If I get and accept the job, I wouldn’t be in the same country as the shady folks, and I wouldn’t be in a position that would compromise me ethically or legally. I’m still a little uneasy, though. I don’t know if it would hurt my professional reputation in the future, for example if people associate me with that sort of conduct.

    1. MuseumChick*

      I think this would really depend on your position within the company. If you were of a level where you knew (or should have known) what was going on and didn’t do anything to try and stop it, yeah, that’s going to stick with your through your career I would think.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Seconding this. Were you responsible for the wrong that happened? For example, if the executives were embezzling money, but you were the receptionist or salesperson there, I wouldn’t think you’re necessarily implicated.

      2. Lemon Zinger*

        Definitely this!

        I work in higher ed and sometimes we have staff hired from for-profit universities. If they’re faculty, well… their credentials speak for themselves. But I am extremely wary of admissions staff from for-profits, because their jobs were extremely predatory.

      3. Office Mercenary*

        I don’t think I’d be responsible for anything directly related to the shady folks, but I’d be the research analyst responsible for studying the country in which they’re stationed. More of an outside observer than a participant, really. I’d share information with them and occasionally visit in person, though.

    2. Wheezy Weasel*

      It may well depend on the level of professionalism of the resume screener. In my own experience, for every scandal there’s what is reported and what’s actually true. You also mentioned things that are ‘par for the course’ and common yet damaging, which is a bit of a mitigating factor. Admissions staff in for-profit schools and sales managers in banks with ongoing fake account scandals…I’d steer if that was quite opposite from what I’d ask them to do in my company, but those people might also bring enough experience that I’d be better off hiring them vs. training someone fresh.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Having worked for a corrupt company, I would not consider this job. Granted there could be other factors that you can’t mention here. But I learned the hard way that corruption does not just occur “over there somewhere”.

      It’s not your reputation that is the real issue. The real issue is when we hang out with turkeys we become a turkey. In other words, corruption does not happen in a vacuum. It takes many other people to either cooperate or to turn a blind eye. I know first hand how easy it is to get caught up in helping to cover for people, learning to ignore red flags and so on. I thought I could stay out of it, but I got dragged into some of it.

      This happens for the same reason we read news stories of one person falling into the lake, three others jumping into save the first person and finally rescue people need to come and rescue all four people. Only with corruption, they don’t send EMTs.

      Sorry, that’s a hard stance on my part. But I cannot give you a tamer bit of advice and feel that it’s fair to you.

  48. Fabulous*

    I guess I don’t really have a question, but just looking for some advice on how to handle my situation in general. If I could be doing anything different, or whatnot.

    I’m currently working under 3 different departments and technically two companies (that are owned by the same parent company – the one dept provides shared services). My manager used to be the person in the Shared Services dept, but I’ve been moved over to the finance team temporarily because I am covering for a maternity leave. Meanwhile I’m still doing the shared services work, as well as am acting admin for another department whose assistant was dismissed last fall (I originally came on board as her fill-in she was out for maternity, moved to shared services when she returned, and then had her duties transitioned back to me when she left for good).

    If this sounds confusing, it’s because it is. My old (real?) manager (who is remote, which further complicates matters) is being told now to not include me in team meetings, and I’m guessing she’s been told to stop giving me assignments. But they’re all things that need done, and now I’m probably going to hear about everything now second-hand. My current (temporary) manager has only given me part of the work I probably should be doing for him, but the part I’m doing is the only portion I was trained on for this girl’s leave. Additionally, it’s annual review time and I need to do that soon – with the new manager instead of my old one, who knows my work. The new guy, while he’s been around, I’ve only been working under for the last month.

    It’s just getting really frustrating. Because on top of that management fiasco, I also have these other (3-4) managers coming at me to give me things for that third dept. On a good note, my days are full most of the time, but it’s hard to prioritize and keep everything straight. On another good note, at least everyone recognizes that I’m stretched between the different departments/managers/companies so they compliment me weekly on my ability to handle it all. And I’m directing a play on top of that right now too. I think I just need a break, LOL!!

  49. mehkitty84*

    Looking for advice from any HR pros that have transitioned from HR to employment law. I am toying with getting a law degree or paralegal. I have been an HR Generalist for about 4 years and really love the employment law side. Thanks and TGIF!

    1. Pwyll*

      I kinda sorta did that. I still love employment law, but I absolutely hated law firm life. My best recommendation is to go meet with lawyers in this type of practice to pick their brains, perhaps attempt some kind of internship or shadowing experience if possible, etc. Law school is extremely difficult because of the way it is set up (insanely stressful, crazy expensive). I don’t regret going, though I know people who do. What’s most important is that you’re going for the right reasons: you like the work (not the subject-matter of the work) and need the license to do the work.

      If what you really enjoyed is the policy, procedure or human aspect of HR, you may be better off getting a Master’s or joining an HR consulting firm that is more about counseling the business as to HR best practices. One of the more difficult things I experienced at my very, very conservative law firm was that there were “best practices” that my firm simply would not communicate because it wasn’t legal advice. My partners were very concerned about mixing business and legal advice for liability reasons, and so even if we saw a bad business practice we generally did not opine on it if it was legal. I found this incredibly frustrating.

      1. Pwyll*

        That ended up way more negative than I intended. My main point is: make sure you’re interested in the WORK and not the SUBJECT, because I think a lot of people confuse the two when it comes to law school.

        1. mehkitty84*

          Thanks! I think that is just it. I have my master’s degree and am finding that the generalist route has me dealing with every day stuff ie temp staffing and employee relations where people are immature. I think a consulting route would be better. I probably just need to be a generalist awhile to get more experience for consulting. Thanks again!

          1. Pwyll*

            In that vein, you may want to consider larger corporations’ HR departments after you have a few years as a generalist. If you’re interested in broader scope, HR Business Partner positions in bigger companies might be a next step (advising mid-to-senior managers as to HR practices), or joining a “center of excellence” within a massive company that works on higher-end policy development.

    2. ThatGirl*

      Anecdata from a friend – she went to law school specifically for employment law, because she wanted to work in a higher-up HR capacity.

      She did not need to go to law school. She could have avoided quite a lot of debt that way. She did practice employment law for about 6 years but the whole time wished she was working in an HR role instead and found it difficult to break in.

      That said, if you are interested in actually practicing employment law, that’s a different story. Her general advice to people is not to go to law school unless you truly want to practice law.

      1. FiveWheels*

        I don’t really understand why anyone would go to law school unless they want to practice law. Why become professionally trained in something you don’t want to actually do?

        1. ThatGirl*

          She wanted to become well-trained in employment law. She thought/was told that it would be useful.

          While I understand and generally agree with what you’re saying, a surprising number of people are encouraged to go to law school in order to help them get some unrelated job. People think it’s like getting your MBA.

  50. Yas Queen*

    Any advice on compartmentalizing so personal life doesn’t interfere with your work? For once, I have some very positive and exciting things going on in my personal life, and I’m finding it hard to be productive at my job.

    1. TJ*

      You might not be able to! Happy, exciting things can affect your productivity just like difficult things can, and if you have a good relationship with your manager it might help to explain what’s going on. But one way to stay productive might be to have really firm boundaries between personal and work life. Like, as soon as you get to work, you’re in work mode. No texting or facebook or anything that might get you even more distracted by the exciting things.

      And congrats on whatever those positive things are!

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think you have to have a completely impenetrable dividing line between your personal and work life. Even when I’ve felt most competent in compartmentalizing, people will still ask how my weekend was or whatnot. When my cat died, believe me that everyone in the office knew about or saw me crying. Just try your best to stay professional. You can still be beaming about the exciting things in your life while staying professional.

    3. Pwyll*

      In some ways, I feel like positive personal issues can be more difficult to ignore than negative ones (because in some sense you WANT to focus on them). One thing I’ve done is to set specific goals for myself for each day, and mentally work to ensure that if I’m not doing those goals that it’s because they’ve been replaced by something else that came up. So, for example, I will tell myself in the morning: You will do the TPS report, and call Joe, and pull together the spreadsheet today. Near the end of the day, I will evaluate: I didn’t call Joe because Martha asked me to do x instead, which I did and was more important. And I’m not allowed to leave until I put the spreadsheet together.

      Now, this is obviously more difficult if you don’t have a job with those types of tasks, or if you’re non-exempt and have a set schedule (such that you can’t stay until the spreadsheet is done because you were distracted earlier). But so long as the “today” list is reasonable, setting the goals can make it easier to ensure you do what needs to be done (so you can leave on time and go enjoy what’s otherwise distracting you!)

    4. Casuan*

      Do you want to compartmentalise only because these changes interfere with your work? In general, are you social with your colleagues [eg: do you chat about that new restaurant or hobbies]?
      If either answer is yes, then you don’t really want to compartmentalise, which isn’t a bad thing. You just need help in focussing.

      If you’re just concerned about needing to focus & avoiding distractions at work, here are a few suggestions.
      -Before doing a task, think about the reason why you’re doing it & what resources you’ll need.
      -Divide the work into segments & focus on each segment. Between segments, take a small break & think about your exciting personal life.
      -Think of the personal accomplishments as incentives or a type of superpower.
      eg: “I just won the gold medal for my sport! Certainly I can slay this boring work thing I must do!”

      If you really want do compartmentalise your work from personal life- that takes a different approach. There’s a difference between applied focus & true compartmentalisation. Both skills take practise, so be patient with the learning curve.

      Congrats on the positive & exciting things!!

  51. Collie*

    A supervisor at one of my jobs said if I got an interview for a full-time job there, tell her and she’d fight to get on the panel and then fight to get me hired because it’s “ridiculous” that I haven’t been able to get something full time there already. I’m so, so grateful and really hoping this will be the one. The job closed yesterday, so now it’s just a wait-and-check-every-hour (exaggeration, but…) game. They expect to respond within 4-6 weeks according to the auto we-received-your-application response, but I suspect it’ll be faster given the circumstances around the job.

    I dreamed last night I got the job, but I’ve had similar dreams about other jobs before. Despite being a believer in “signs,” I’m inclined to believe this one means nothing. Or so I tell myself, for the sake of my own sanity.

    Cross your fingers for me.

  52. Alice*

    Front-line staff interacting with customers and chewing gum – what’s your take?
    I came across a DMV clerk chewing gum this week and thought they looked like a cow chewing cud.
    But to be fair, I was quite grumpy because of the wait (btw, don’t say on your website that the current wait time is 3 minutes when it’s actually two hours), which is not the fault of this clerk and also wasn’t connected to the chewing!
    Do you think it’s ok for staff to chew gum while interacting with clients?

    2. Collie*

      I can understand why others would be bothered by it (especially in food service). I’m not especially bothered by it and I wish others weren’t either (because I’m in a customer-interaction role and sometimes worry about my breath during those interactions and just like to chew on things throughout the day), but I do get it.

      1. Alice*

        I hadn’t thought of that reason, good point. Although the breath mint solution KR mentioned works too.

        1. Collie*

          Maybe, though I’d say for not as long, depending on the type of gum or mint. Plus gum has the added benefit of possibly removing things stuck in your teeth. I still wouldn’t chew gum in these circumstances because I know it bothers other people, but I’ve always had problems with bad breath, so it’s also been something I wish could be different.

        2. FiveWheels*

          I’m in a tiny minority but as I’m allergic to mint, chewing gum is a great way to make me back off!

          1. Another one?*

            My goodness, you’re the only other person I’ve ever found who was allergic to mint. I thought I was the only one!

    3. Shamy*

      It doesn’t bug me so long as they are discreet and not chomping super loud or blowing bubbles.

    4. KR*

      Nope, no gum. It’s rude of her. When I needed to freshen my breath in a customer facing role I had sugar free mints. I don’t think it’s very polite to say she looked like a cow chewing cud though.

      1. N.J.*

        It’s not like she said it to her face though. It sounds like a very accurate description of someone who, literally, chews like an animal. I had someone behind me at an ice cream shop yesterday who smacked so much she sounded like a dog licking its b**lls. It’s not typically rude to accurately describe someone’s noxious manners, as long as you don’t call them out on it with that imagery.

    5. Master Bean Counter*

      Slightly better than the the time I had to wait for a DMV clerk to literally scratch his butt before he’d let me up to the counter to be helped.
      I do miss the clerks in the small town I used to live in. They were friendly, nice, and very efficient. If they could be cloned and put in every office across the country we’d all be happier people.

      1. Alice*

        Now I am counting my blessings! And I bet he didn’t wash his hands before handing back your paperwork either….

    6. Rebecca in Dallas*

      Gum is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. I personally don’t think gum should be allowed for people working directly with customers, but that may be my own bias. I cannot stand the sound of chewing and if someone is talking to me with gum in their mouth, all I can hear is their gum. SO GROSS!

      1. WellRed*

        Me too, but it’s my boss who chews (snaps, cracks and pops it). She’s so professional otherwise. If she accidentally cracks a big one, she apologizes cause she knows I hate it, but I want her to stop!!!

    7. Ihmmy*

      Meh, non issue. Often gendered I find. I mean, a piece or two is reasonable, if they’ve opted to have so much that they have to chew open-mouthed that’s unpleasant.

      But also it’s the DMV. From what I’ve seen it sounds like one of those things that customers are just at the mercy of (non US resident here)

  53. ThatGirl*

    Job searching is sloooooooow. But I do have a few leads. Including a part-time work-at-home thing that I’m trying to negotiate a higher rate on but could start next week. That would make me feel a little better about the career-track stuff taking longer.

    Meanwhile I’ve decided that Right Management (and probably similar outplacement-style firms) is like 40% decent advice, 15% gimmicks and 45% pep talks so career software engineers and the like don’t go jumping off bridges when they get laid off. (There are a lot of project managers and software developers/engineers in my group there.)

  54. MMMMMmmmmK*

    Funny story!

    So our office air conditioner was turned off Monday for the holiday. More expensive to run on a holiday and we’re cheap.

    By 10am, the temperature had risen QUITE quickly, so I turned on a fan at my desk. The office manager, who sits behind me, hates my fan because it’s loud. Honestly, it is loud, and I’ve used it for noise cancelling once or twice in the past. He’s always threatened to rip it out of the wall and hide it in one of the closets I don’t have a key for, so I usually only have it on when he’s in a meeting somewhere else and turn it off as soon as he speaks up.

    Well, Monday, he asked for it to be turned off, I explained that I was too hot to turn it off, but it’s was on its lowest, quietest setting. He didn’t say anything more.

    Fast forward a couple hours and the temp reached 86 degrees inside. We realize none of the windows can be opened, so we check a few corners for extra fans. We find 2, but one is the same loud model as mine, so he puts it back in the corner, still off, and turns on the other so that it oscillates in a high-traffic area.

    Few more hours later. I can leave earlier than some others in the office, as I get in much earlier. I’ve reached my tolerance and needed to gtfo. I start packing up and turn off my fan. Office manager behind me figuratively hits the roof. Throws himself out of his chair and begins berating me for being inconsiderate enough to turn off the fan. He goes in my area and starts pulling at cords to adjust the fan and turn it back on.

    Ok, my own mistake here, but as I watch him, I make a side comment to someone watching him. “It’s funny how he goes from threatening to rip it out of the wall because it’s on to saying I’m terrible for turning it off.”

    OMG, tantrum the likes I’ve never seen in a 50 year old man. He started hollering that I was selfish and didn’t have any care for my coworkers. Then literally rips the fan out of the wall, as he threatened, in order to move it next to the other fan he’s set up earlier in the day. All the while shouting that I was selfish and how dare I turn if off when it’s so hot inside.

    I look at the fan, of the same model, that he’s ignored all day, and carry it over to my desk. I think I said something like, “If one desk fan makes that big of a difference, why didn’t you turn this on all day?”

    He just kept hollering that I was selfish and didn’t make sense, so eventually I just shook my head and left.

    Wow.

    1. EddieSherbert*

      Oh my gosh. He sounds… difficult. I hope he’s not that difficult about everything (or anything!!) else.

      1. MMMMMmmmmK*

        He is! But I mostly know how to handle him. If you avoid him or express any kind of upset at his behavior, he’ll rotate through the office telling everyone what a child you are. SOO I came in the next morning sunny and cheery and acted like nothing had happened and spoke to him as usual.

        He sulked and didn’t really talk for 3 days, but now he’s back to his “usual” chatty, mildly complaining self.

        2. LQ*

          Wow, I was going to say, maybe the heat really got to him, but if he’s normally like that…yikes!

    2. Manders*

      Wowwwwwww. I wonder sometimes how people like this get and keep jobs when they’re this blatantly unprofessional. It seems obvious to me that there are people out there who can manage an office without having a screaming meltdown about a fan?

      1. MMMMMmmmmK*

        The CEO of the company, his boss, made the excuse that he was “just hot” and lost his head for a second. Wellll, there’s a dozen other people in the office just as hot who didn’t act like that, so what point is the CEO trying to make? lol.

        In his eyes, it’s always someone else acting like a child, not him. Always. I once asked him to stop calling me names (including the b-word!). When he tried the “oh, I’m just kidding,” but I wouldn’t back down and held firm that I didn’t want to be called names, he had a temper tantrum that I was acting like a child. He didn’t speak to me for a year, which was honestly a relief. Of course, I was also a lot lower in the organization at the time, so that didn’t impact me at all. Now though, now that would seriously effect my job….

      2. paul*

        I would be written up so fast for that…I cant’ believe that the employer’s not dealing with the guy if crap like this is semi-regular

    3. Master Bean Counter*

      You made a side comment that wasn’t very nice at a point where people were literally boiling. He may have over reacted, but you did poke the bear. Next time pretend he’s rational and just ask if he’d like you to leave the fan on if it’s over 80 degrees in the office. Also the make fans which are almost silent now. I’d look into buying one, for your own future sanity.

  55. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

    I volunteered, perhaps unwisely, to grill hot dogs and hamburgers for 120 people over the course of three hours at our annual neighborhood picnic. The company that makes my grill is small, American, and has an intensely loyal but small group of customers. I will probably need a few pieces of accessory equipment to grill that much food efficiently.

    Is there a good way to approach them to ask if they’d be willing to donate or discount that equipment in exchange for some pretty high visibility at a big event in a market they’re not well represented in? Is just asking a Thing That Is Done, or what?

    1. Manders*

      I don’t think you’re likely to get that equipment as a donation unless you’re working in a field where people would notice and want to know more about the grill. I’ve gone to dozens of cookouts and I can’t recall anything about the companies that make my friends’ grills.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        I think it’s possible that, in this case, the grill is distinctive enough in appearance that dudes will be interested in knowing what the heck it is. They’re popular in the South but not so much in Colorado, where I am. It might be worth it from a marketing perspective?

        1. Not a Real Giraffe*

          I guess it can’t hurt to ask, but if I’m understanding correctly, there will only be about 120 people at this event which I doubt the grill company will see as a large enough crowd to justify the cost of donating the equipment.

        2. Manders*

          Is it one of those Big Green Egg grills? They seem like an unconventional enough company that they might do something like send you some loaner equipment or give you a discount if you promise to spread the word about their product.

          (I remember the Big Green Egg because my friends were talking about it and when I looked it up on Amazon, one of the first results was a sex toy. So I think they might be slightly more eager than your average company to build brand awareness.)

          1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

            No, it’s a company called PK Grills. You can Google for it if you’re interested – it’s kind of a combo grill and smoker, and made out of cast aluminum. What I’d need would probably total less than $80 if I just bought it retail, so they might find it worth it.

            1. Manders*

              That’s a small enough purchase that I personally would feel weird asking for it for free from a company that’s struggling to find its market. I might feel differently if, say, this cookout was feeding the homeless and you would publically thank PK Grills on the company’s social media page.

              But you have to choose for yourself what you’re comfortable with asking for. I think this is one of those ask culture v. guess culture things; I fall on the side of guessing that the request won’t be filled, but if you’re ok with asking and hearing a firm no, then go ahead.

    2. Grits McGee*

      I think Manders is probably right about the likelihood of getting anything for free, but there’s really not any negative consequences to asking. Is there any charitable component to the event that you could try to hook them with?

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        It’s put on by a nonprofit volunteer group, so maybe!

        1. PollyQ*

          Since you’re affiliated with a NPO, you might want to check with them before you solicit anything on their behalf.

    3. Chaordic One*

      I think I’d ask friends and relatives if I could borrow their grills for the picnic. Maybe they’d be up to volunteering to help.

  56. Anonymostest for this post-est*

    Regular commenter going anon for this… I posted in the March 31 open thread saying that I’d been in the running for several positions, and I was getting positive feedback but no offers. I asked if I should set my sights lower, since I’m trying to move to a new area of my field.

    Shortly after that, I saw an opening for a lower-level professional position in the field I want to transfer to. I applied, had a great interview, and was offered the job a few days later! The pay is only a small cut from my current role (with better benefits), and the new job has a real emphasis on training and what seems like a great office culture. I accepted and I’m over the moon about it. Thank you everyone for your comments and support!

  57. Allison*

    I had an awful evening yesterday. We’d been talking about a big project at work, but I was under the impression it wasn’t time to fire on all cylinders because we didn’t have enough information, and I only needed to work on one part of it, because we thought we were aligned on the expectations. We were not. I was going to leave at 4, as I had an obligation that evening I was really looking forward to, and the higher-ups knew that, but at 3:30 we had to huddle in an office and suddenly the expectations were super clear, and I had a huge project on my hands due at noon today. AAAAH!

    It went without saying I had to cancel my booking, which I felt really bad bailing on, but there was no way I could leave at 4. Or 5, or even 6 and get everything done by this morning. I was in the office until 9.

    On the one hand, I feel like I failed. I should have asked more questions to clarify the expectations, urgency, and deadline. I should have assumed it was urgent, I should have put everything on the backburner, I should have aimed to exceed expectations rather than merely meet them. If I had done better, worked harder, asked more questions, taken more notes, we wouldn’t have needed to have that emergency meeting and I could have left to do my thing.

    On the other hand, I’m frustrated because people expected me to “just know” certain aspects of what they wanted, rather than tell me. I need people to tell me what they want, because I am not a mind reader and I stink at reading between the lines. But I wonder if that’s a contradiction . . . I also hate it when people talk down to me, and treat me like a little girl who just started working in this industry. I wonder if I can have both – clearly defined expectations, while also being spoken to like a reasonably intelligent adult with at least a baseline level of industry knowledge. Or do I have to accept that as long as I require clarity, there’s going to be some condescension?

    1. Fabulous*

      This is a sucky place to be in. Something that’s helped me is if I’m waiting on information, or would like clarification on items to make sure they don’t want changes, I’ll send them something like, “I need the following information to proceed with this project:” and then write up a bullet point list with the items I need. That way they can’t say you had all the information you needed when you clearly didn’t.

      It’s not your fault people didn’t clearly define their expectations, but you also need to be accountable for tracking down the information you need. Don’t assume people will get it to you – follow up, sometimes multiple times, until everything is crystal clear.

    2. N.J.*

      I empathize. My current role is in an industry I know nothing about at all. I’ve got bitten in the ass a few times now over reading a situation or set of project needs one way, when everyone else, including my bosses, view it a completely different way. Everyone really does sometimes expect you to read their minds and it is incredibly frustrating and counter productive. I’ve just made peace with the fact that I will have to deal with blame, irritation or incredulity when I am not aware of a need or procedure and am swallowing a lot of my…pride for lack of a better word and asking SO MANY QUESTIONS, even though I get the same attitude you are getting sometimes from those providing info .i.e. Talked to like I am a moron. Not sure how to fix that but just to let you know you are not alone in this sort of situation. I think sometimes my situation is compounded by my demeanor (I read as younger than I am and try to maintain a “nice”/positive interaction style and that seems to be interpreted as “dumbass whippersnapper” or something). I also run into the issue that people get irritated with me following up with so many questions or requests so that is something to balance against the need for info.

    3. JustaTech*

      What I see is a major communication failure on the part of your manager. Big projects always need to have a really specific conversation “Project X is due on Y date”. If no one in your group communicated that to you (or didn’t even decide until right then) that is not your fault.
      The only thing I could see for you to change in the future is to ask straight out “when is this project due?” at the end of a project meeting (unless it’s already been stated).

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yep. Not that it’s your fault but somehow it becomes your responsibility of asking for information that should be freely communicated. Just resolve not to let that one skate by you again. And I would mention it to the boss, also, that deadlines need to be nailed down. Perhaps email confirmations so that everyone is on the same page? Or perhaps you could suggest to the boss that you do weekly check ins to make sure deadlines have not changed.

        This is kind of subtle, but the way to get your point across that this is a bfd is to insist on making a plan so that it does not happen again. And do this each time you hit a pitfall like this one. Insist that a plan be made so that the problem does not happen again. Be nice/sincere but be firm.

  58. TeriJ*

    Tips for someone starting an assistant professor position? (clinical, non-TT but with the option to move to TT if I choose)

    1. Dr. KMnO4*

      -Ask your coworkers for their syllabus and model yours after it. Make sure you include info about academic honesty, and make sure the consequences align with the school’s policies.
      -Prep more than you think you need to prep. Prep early, prep often.
      -Use formative assessment in your classroom where possible. I like daily quizzes over what was covered in the previous class. It allows you to track class progress and encourages students to study as they go, not just at the end.
      -Remind students of your office hours. Strongly encourage them to come to your office hours. I have candy in my office that I offer to students when they come to office hours.
      -Incentivize students to fill out your teaching evaluations. I gave my students +2 points on their final (less than 1% of the max final exam score) if 95% of the class filled out the evals before the final. I gave them time in class to do the evals as well.
      -Try to mix up your teaching style where you can. This is heavily dependent on your subject matter, though the fact you mention that you’re “clinical” hints at STEM or STEM-adjacent to me. Clickers are helpful, especially with large classes. Predict, Observe, Explain and Think, Pair, Share are great ways to get students involved. Even though they’re in college, students still don’t have the attention span to sit through 50+ minutes of straight lecture.
      -Unless electronic devices become a HUGE problem/distraction to others, my philosophy is to not make a big deal of devices in class. If students don’t want to pay attention they are the ones who will face the music. They need to learn for themselves that choices have consequences.
      -Stay on top of grading.
      -Use the college’s course management software (Moodle, Blackboard, etc.) and keep it updated. Post your syllabus there. If it has a gradebook component, use it. Students like being able to keep track of their grades.
      -Don’t feel bad about being strict when you need to be strict, and lenient when you need to be lenient. I had a student just now try to turn in a report 2+ weeks late, and after the final exam. I said no. But there are situations (deaths in the family, illness) where flexibility is greatly appreciated by students. I tend to trust students until they demonstrate that they are untrustworthy.
      -Academic honesty should be a big deal. Do not let students perpetually slide on plagiarism or things like that. You are doing them a favor by addressing it in college where the consequences are likely less severe than in the real world.
      -Don’t let work be all-consuming. Take care of your physical and mental health.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      Talk to the library about resources before you plan your assignments. Get their support and they can be a great resource for you. Many University libraries are eager to work with new professors to make sure they have the resources and can create a positive experience for your students.

    3. NoMoreMrFixit*

      Lots of schools will offer workshops on using the course management system. You can also find workshops or longer courses on adult education. All highly recommended. There’s usually a teaching support centre or something similar. They’ll offer all sorts of support, both group activities like training and one on one help. Some institutions have smart classrooms with all sorts of built in audio/visual resources.

      Get to know the clinic/lab staff. A good working relationship with the local techies can be a Godsend. Having worked as a computer lab tech I can tell you we do go out of our way to help out the profs who treat us like humans!

      1. Wheezy Weasel*

        Many course/learning management systems have 24 hour support via chat and phone, so even if the staff at the University/College isn’t free, you can still get assistance. I handle faculty support for these resources during the day but we have hundreds of calls to the corporate support line during evening hours too.

    4. Miss Anne Thrope*

      Keep up on your research. Write daily, even if it’s only 30 minutes each day – protect your writing /research time

  59. Anonnosaurus*

    I’m wondering about the reality of sexism in the workplace. I keep seeing all the articles saying the majority of women experience sexism in the workplace – some placing that number as high as 90% which is mildly terrifying. I’m sure sexism does exist, but is it really that prevalent? I’ve worked since I was 16 and I can’t remember ever having an issue. Do I just exist in a bubble? Am I naive or are the articles based more in fear-mongering than in reality?

    1. EA*

      I think either you have gotten lucky, or maybe you don’t see the sort of unconscious bias sexism that exist. Two examples.

      1. I life guarded in high school. Was asked by a 40 year old man to “jump in and save him” (who was not drowning, he wanted mouth to mouth sandlot style. Clearly pretty overt
      2. I was a paralegal at a big firm. I was involved in hiring. They only wanted woman who were like bro-ey and sarcastic, who they thought wouldn’t complain about their great frat boy culture. I think this is still sexist, just in a more subtle way.

    2. Anon for This*

      I found out this morning that a colleague’s boss regularly makes comments to her about “deciding to be a big girl” when she comes in dressed particularly nice or something.

      That’s apparently been going on for months and I’m just now hearing about it. So yeah. I know that’s anecdotal but just because it’s not happening to us doesn’t mean it’s not happening around us.

      My boss regularly tells me he sees me like a daughter which has a whole lot of ageist sexist weirdness in it.

        1. Anon for This*

          Agreed. She’s cripplingly nonconfrontational and doesn’t want it addressed. She’s job hunting.

        2. M*

          How would you suggest someone shut that down, since it’s coming from their boss? I get the feeling that someone who would make that comment in the first place might not react well to being called out on it.

          1. EddieSherbert*

            True, but he also might be perfectly nice, doing it without thinking, and would be horrified to hear it creeps her out.

            I think it should be fine to simply say something (in the moment or privately later) along the lines of “Just a heads up I have a thing about being called a ‘big girl.’ I know it’s friendly teasing but it actually makes me really uncomfortable and I’d like you to stop saying it.”

            And if they get defensive or annoyed or weird, just stress the “No matter how you meant it, it makes me uncomfortable, and I’d like you to stop.”

            It’s hard to justify why they’d need to keep saying it!

            1. EddieSherbert*

              Though I’d personally be tempted to make comments about “how he’s such a big boy in his tie today” or something!

              (I do some IT tech support and have a couple older guys that call me “honey” and “sweetie”… while I’m fixing their computers for them… and I’m ALWAYS dying to call them “champ” or “sonny” or something!)

      2. sniffles*

        Depends on how it is delivered…
        We often talk about “pulling up our big girl panties & getting it done” over a big project or something we don’t want to do or “dressing like a grown-up” when we are expecting/visiting big donors.
        i dont’ see anything sexist about that.

    3. Leatherwings*

      I live in a super liberal area in a super liberal field and definitely still see and experience it. Not daily, but enough to notice. I don’t think they’re fearmongering at all.

      1. hermit crab*

        Me too, unfortunately. I work in a division that is majority-women (except in upper management, natch) in a company in a liberal city, in a liberal field. The casual/occasional sexism — in terms of comments, expectations, and pay/opportunity disparities — astounds me whenever I stop to think about it. And this is the job/company I specifically chose so that I didn’t have to continue in the academic track of the male-dominated field I studied in college.

    4. Manders*

      I think it’s more subtle than it used to be, but still very real. For instance, my old boss used to call me “the front desk girl” and once said I was a “wilting flower” when he screamed at me and I looked shocked and upset. In my current job, most of my coworkers are female, but I do suspect some of them think I’m odd because I don’t always present as extremely femme and I didn’t perform femininity in the right way when I got married (not changing my name, not making a big deal of announcing every detail to the office, not having answered to every question about color schemes and flowers when questioned, etc).

      I live in a city with a massive gender pay gap and a huge gender imbalance caused by young single men moving here to work in tech. That’s not random chance, it’s a symptom of some huge issues in our society.

    5. Squeeble*

      A lot of it is much more subtle than you might be imagining. There’s a lot of subtle, ingrained sexism that I didn’t pick up on myself before reading and learning more about the way it manifests.

      1. Squeeble*

        Just to follow up with an example: my boss at my last job once told me “You’ll make a great mom one day” because I remembered some colleagues’ birthdays. This was before I rediscovered feminism and I took it as a compliment at the time. It wasn’t until a few years later that it dawned on me how reductive and insulting it was.

    6. Collie*

      I’m in a women-dominated field and men-people are still more regularly promoted in it according to various studies.

      2. AnotherLibrarian*

        Me too! Librarianship in majority female, but men receive higher pay and more promotions statistically.

      3. LQ*

        Where I am the entry level staff are primarily women, the specialty level staff are primarily women, the few “top tier” specialty level staff are nearly exclusively men, the supervisors are primarily women but all but one manager and director are men.

        1. hermit crab*

          Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It’s the same where I work. The (male) VP gets to be all proud of how many “technical experts” in his division are women but… none of the VP’s are women.

    7. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I’ve become more and more aware of it the older I’ve gotten. The big shift came when I started law school. Even law firms with reputations as being family-friendly and good to women can be appalling. Just as a particularly absurd (but comparably innocuous) example – a female friend of mine who is an associate at a large firm was told by an older male partner at a company retreat that he didn’t like to work with female attorneys because you can’t trust anything that bleeds for a month and doesn’t die.

      In terms of representation and pay equity, it gets worse the higher up you get. So law schools are fairly egalitarian and women generally have good luck getting hired as associates (but see crap above), it gets harder when/if you want to start a family, and by the time you get to the highest levels of practice – equity partnership in most firms – you’ll be in a distinct minority.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        “was told by an older male partner at a company retreat that he didn’t like to work with female attorneys because you can’t trust anything that bleeds for a month and doesn’t die”

        What. The. Actual. F&@&^#.

      2. Kalamet*

        That “bleeds for a month” comment is from South Park. As a fan of the show, it appalls me how many times I’ve seen this particular line quoted seriously by real people.

        1. MegaMoose, Esq*

          They didn’t write it – I’m sure they heard it from genius 8-year-olds when they were that age the same as I did a decade or so later. Thanks a lot for bringing it back to prominence, though.

      3. DrPeteLoomis*

        God, I so wish she had responded with a hyper-specific explanation of menstruation, starting with “Well, technically, it’s not bleeding; it’s shedding of the blood-rich endometrial cells that line the uterine wall…”

    8. Writer*

      I’ve never had a job where I didn’t experience sexism. It sounds like you’ve been lucky.

      1. Artemesia*

        This. It is baked into our business culture and academic culture at every level. I began my career when it was perfectly legal and common to discriminate against women in employment. When the civil rights act finally started to impact sex discrimination in the 70s all the same things continued, just more subtly.

      2. Anonymous Educator*

        Well, if the OP’s 90% statistic is true, I guess it’d make sense she could be part of the 10%. I’m shocked there’d be even as high as 10% who have never experienced sexism at work, though.

    9. Jan Levinson*

      I’ve never experienced it either, and actually don’t know anyone personally that’s experienced it. I think it probably depends a lot on the area that you live in.

    10. Anon for This*

      I don’t know.

      I know that I’m more privileged than most (white, white-collar/professional work, upper middle class, female-dominated industry), so I suspect I experience less of it than many people.

      But still, I have:

      – Been in meetings where I was literally not looked at (and my male colleagues were).
      – A (male) boss who, while clear failing at key aspects of his job, received a salary and title increase over the other (female) people at his level (his work didn’t change, nor did theirs, but he got the salary and title bump and they did not).
      – Cleaned up after meetings, because the men (at my level or below) left the room without considering who was going to throw away the leftover napkins/erase the white board/etc.
      – Observed the (female) CEO of my company doing dishes, after dozens of (both male and female) employees ignored the growing piles.
      – Observed my (female) grandboss get coffee for a meeting that included a mix of internal and external colleagues, all of whom were male and all of whom she outranked (the admin who would normally handle this was out sick)
      – Listened to stories from male colleagues about the porn they watched
      – Had no short-term disability provided by work, which means that giving birth requires weeks off with no pay

      … etc.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        Yeah, it’s just subtle, unconscious stuff that people do because they’re pretty sure they’re not sexist.

      2. Undercover for this*

        Yeah, we had desserts the other day in a conference room. Our team is about 50-50, but we do have a few more men thane women. One of the women who had coordinated the dessert event had a meeting immediately following, so she asked me and another coworker (both women) if we wouldn’t mind cleaning up the conference room? Before I thought, I said, “Just Sue and I? Only the women? How about Fred?” She was kind of taken aback. I’m happy to help out, but it sure felt like sexism to me. To Fred’s credit, he jumped up to help as well.

    11. Anon Anon*

      I guess I would ask how many of your senior leadership team are women?

      I think there is far less overt sexism than there used to be. I don’t get called honey or girl by anyone in a professional setting. However, there is other forms of sexism. For example, where I work only 15% of leadership team is women, in management with reports only 20% of us are women. But, when you go to our non-management non-clerical staff, about 70% are women, and when you get to our clerical staff they are 100% women.

      I know my boss who is part of the leadership team is often shut out or not invited to things, because it’s still kind of an old boys club. The men on the leadership team (including our CEO) often go golfing together, go drinking together, etc., and the women are frequently left out. And to me that is just as sexist as inappropriate language choices or assuming a woman can’t accomplish much because she’s a mother.

      1. Amber Rose*

        That comes in other forms too: despite the legality of it, I know my manager at my last clerical job said she preferred not to hire men because they didn’t do it properly compared to women.

      2. Anonymous Educator*

        This is a good point. Even if it’s not sexism you feel directly, it certainly can be observed structurally. If even you have one token female CEO but the rest of leadership is male and almost all the board members are male, that’s a heavy imbalance of power.

    12. FDCA In Canada*

      It certainly does exist. I’ve worked in suburban and rural areas since I was about fifteen, and certainly seen a lot of not-overt-but-still-irritating sexism. At my old job, there were three women in the sales office and a female administrator, and my boss regularly referred to us as “salesgirls” and the admin as “the admin girl.” We were all between our late 20s and early 50s. My current job is female-dominated, but there’s a lot of sexism coming from the other women–lots of sniping about who’s “taking care of her family” and who “wears the pants” in their family, or “who does she think she is?” when someone is more dressed up than usual. That type of thing.

      Sexism isn’t just the creepy much-older boss leaning over the desk to ask for a….favour, if you know what I mean, hint hint, for that promotion. It’s deeply ingrained in the way people hire women, talk to women, treat them in the workplace, denigrate their efforts, or don’t pay attention to their achievements.

    13. Amber Rose*

      It kinda depends on where you live and what your work is. I saw it a LOT in my last job working with construction companies, and a fair bit with my current job in manufacturing. I didn’t really see it working in a government office or as data entry.

      You could also be missing it, because it sometimes shows up in subtle ways that aren’t upsetting as such, just indicators of a larger disregard towards women. Like the dude in my leadership course who told me I look like a popular actress, and then later stole my idea during a presentation (which was hilariously awkward for everyone in the room.)

    14. Grits McGee*

      Sexism is a broad spectrum of behaviors and environments, some of which is only really identifiable as part of a broader pattern. (Like how 90% of the museums I’ve worked at in the past 10 years have been run by an older (often out of his depth) man, and entirely staffed by younger women.) In my career it’s run from the egregious (like the lab tech that greeted me by walking up behind me while I was on the computer and stroking his hands down the side of my ribcage) to the maddening (oh, how funny that only women get volun-told to run the Christmas party!) to the annoying but innocuous (being asked multiple times if I really need help pushing heavy carts of boxes).

    15. LCL*

      Sexism is a really broad catch-all term. The old school way of thinking is, sexism is a deliberate action or deliberate talk, such as saying ‘I refuse to have a woman on my crew.’ Then stealing their tools, or not helping them on jobs that normally take more than one person. This kind of sexism ranges from the very mild-a stupid remark about how it is nice to see a pretty face in the office instead of these old dogs, to the most extreme physical violence including murder.

      Another kind of behavior that is technically sexism is the employee who is always talking about how great Cersei is as an employee, but never talks about the other men in the org. Watch this type, these people fall in 2 categories. First is reformed sexist who is trying to make up for his past bad ideas, second type really hates Cersei and is trying to deflect any suspicion of sexism. First type is OK and can make great allies, though you may have to tell them to stop talking sometimes.

      To me, the worst kind of sexism is the white collar type where you aren’t considered for a job even though you have been doing the work. This hurts you economically, which can effect your entire life.

      The most annoying kind is when in a roomful of male coworkers, one guy will ask another guy a question about something that you know more about than any one else in the room, and the asker knows it.

      We all put people in neat classifications, that is how our brains work. We are the patternmakers. Part of learning to behave in a civilized manner is realizing this and fighting against it. I would say 100% of workers of all gender and race/ethnic/national origin makeup have experienced stereotyped thinking from another person. Pick your battles, some of the questions I see posted in all of the modern behavior websites I would answer by ‘stop being so f—in sensitive.’ Other, more enlightened people would tell you to confront and correct everytime you are presented with sexist behavior. YMMV

    16. anna green*

      I’ve worked in a male dominated field for almost 15 years and I experience sexism all the time too. Some is more blatant than others. Sexist jokes that are obviously geared to make me uncomfortable and/or gauge my reaction, to specific comments about what I’m wearing, or assuming I can’t lift something or perform some task because I’m a woman. Then there’s just the people who feel the need to constantly mention that I’m the only woman in the room, which is always just annoying and unnecessary, why does it matter? It also tends to put me at a disadvantage during casual conversation. Often the men in the group will just be chatting about work or lunch or whatever, but when I join in, its like they don’t know how to just keep doing that, and they need to start asking me about my kids, and the whole dynamic changes because they don’t think of me the same way. It’s like they feel like they need to switch over to a female approved topic. And they are not trying to be sexist, its just so ingrained in society that they think they are being polite. But it just means that I am treated like an outsider who just doesn’t fit.

      1. MegaMoose, Esq*

        That reminds me of another fun story from the world of private practice: a female classmate was second chairing a trial (basically you don’t do the arguing but you do take notes and hand documents to the first chair). On the way out for the day, she was pulling a cart with a couple of boxes of legal documents. While waiting for the elevator, a partner for the opposing side said that at his firm, they treat women like ladies and don’t make them carry boxes. My classmate didn’t know what to say to that, but the (male) partner waiting with her responded “at my firm, we treat associates like associates.”

    17. Emily*

      While I’m sure that there are still some ragingly sexist people and workplaces out there, I think that a lot of modern-day sexism is more subtle than that – things like offhand sexist comments (which may be mostly innocuous but still presumptive or diminishing), subtly women-unfriendly workplace culture or workplace benefits, women being more likely to assume certain office responsibilities (like cleanup or social coordination) even when those responsibilities are not a part of their job description.

      1. INFJ*

        So true. My work environment is generally great; however, one of the male directors told me to smile once (he’s a generally nice person, but kind of clueless) and I almost lost it. The nicest response I could come up with was “Why should I?”

    18. AndersonDarling*

      I’ve experienced it in past jobs, but I haven’t since I went into the techie field which is odd because that is where loads sexism is supposed to be.
      I think it all depends on where you work and who is running the company. If the Big Boss is sexist, then everyone underneath will be sexist. I’ve had the worst experiences when working for a male run family business and for a giant company whose main division was run by a “men’s club” hierarchy.

    19. FN2187*

      I experience sexism often in my work. The most frequent thing I encounter is being told to “smile, beautiful.” I nipped that in the bud by putting on my best confused look and asking, “why?” Other men in my organization call me “sunshine” or “beautiful.” It’s super annoying and, frankly, degrading. Would they speak to a male colleague like that? Absolutely not. My name is FN2187 — not “gorgeous.”

    20. Dr. KMnO4*

      Sexism in the workplace is still a thing. Very much still a thing.

      At PreviousWorkplace, I and several other female employees were sexually harassed by a male employee. His problematic behaviors included staring at women’s chests, unwanted hugging, and inappropriate comments (“you can sit on my lap”). When the harassment was reported to his manager all manager did was make excuses for his behavior. Even after the complaints were escalated there were minimal consequences and the manager continued to make excuses and minimize the harassment. Male employee was also not good at his job, but continually kept around despite ample reason to let him go for both performance reasons and, you know, sexually harassing other employees. Female employees who had fewer or no performance problems were pushed out of the organization, and the reasons given were nonsensical or outright lies.

    21. Princess Carolyn*

      Like others, I suspect you’ve experienced more subtle forms of sexism without identifying it as such, but who knows. I will say that I don’t recall experiencing these things as a teenager working in fast food-type jobs. It seems those are fairly egalitarian environments, assuming there’s no overt creepiness going on (and, tbf, that’s kind of a big assumption).

      It was when I entered “career” type jobs that I ran into stuff like being expected to clean up after meetings, take notes, and do other things that were not really my job but were things people assumed I’d be “better” at because I was female.

      1. gwal*

        and girls are praised for “pretty handwriting” as kids, so “could you take notes, you have the nicest handwriting” provides a convenient rationale in case of pushback (not that I think this is premeditated, but the instinctive “of course I’m not sexist, I’m just RATIONAL” response to pushback or critique is very pervasive)

        1. TL -*

          YES. My brothers all have worse handwriting than I do, but I was the one who always got called out for having messy handwriting (I mean, it was written on my assignments – my A+ assignments – and brought up in parent-teacher meetings) on having messy handwriting.
          And we had the exact same teachers!

          I always thought, “well, you could read it well enough to give me an A, so it’s clearly not that bad…” although I did occasionally get docked a few points for bad handwriting. So annoying.

    22. Kaybee*

      At my first job post-grad school, I was routinely assigned “caretaker” duties, such as cleaning up after an event, while my male peer (exactly my peer: hired on the same date, same title, same level of education, same number of years of prior work experience at equivalent organizations) would be invited out with our higher-ups to celebrate the event or to strategy meetings, etc. I had numerous double standards to navigate. For example, I was expected to be “hospitable” to visiting stakeholders, but while my male peer could just take them to happy hour after work, I was chastised for “sending the wrong message” by inviting them to drinks. Instead, I was expected to make homemade meals or take them sightseeing, things that took up so much more of my time and energy than my peer had to do. I could go on about that job, which, btw, was in a liberal major metropolitan area and nearly everyone self-identified as progressive and was well-educated.

      The interesting thing is how much of the sexism was perpetuated by women. When assigning me to take notes or clean up or whatever, oftentimes it was another woman who would tell me, “oh we girls [gag] are just so much better at that sort of thing.”

      I’ve moved on and experience and see sexism is less blatant ways, but it’s still there. One of the executives in my chain of command was promoted to a higher position that had previously been held by a man. She will do and say the exact same things as her predecessor, and whereas her superiors would respond to her predecessor with comments like “oh that’s a good point; I hadn’t thought of that,” they will tell her, “don’t get defensive” and “you’re being argumentative” when her wording is exactly the same as her predecessor, It drives me crazy.

      Not so much at this job, but in general – in previous jobs, in school, in life – I can’t even count how many times I’ve been automatically assumed to be the note taker, or the PowerPoint creator, or the person who will combine everyone’s contributions into one document because I’m a woman.

      If you really want to have fun, get into a discussion with your friends about how they feel about working for a woman. I am astonished at how many people, including those who are well-educated, and younger, and happen to be women themselves, will freely declare that they prefer working for men. Because female executives “often have a chip on their shoulder” or PMS or “are emotional” or any number of things. I vacillate between getting really angry and profoundly sad when I have these conversations.

      1. TL -*

        I once had a coworker tell me that “we just don’t really have a problem with racism here.” In Boston. Where I have literally thought, “Oh, the racial makeup of this train is way off; I must be on the wrong line,” AND BEEN CORRECT.

        1. Bostonian*

          LOL. I’ve been on the commuter rail and overheard a group of white frat-boy types saying, “I try to avoid the Orange Line whenever possible. It makes me… uncomfortable.” There really is little integration here.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          And when, oh when, will it just STOP.

          I remember working in the nursery biz decades ago. It was normal for people to ask for a man. The men were pretty cool about it. The customer would wait sometimes as long as 45 minutes to talk to a man. And after waiting 45 minutes for a man to become available, the men would say to the customer, “Oh,you’ll have to ask one of the women over there, they know more about it than I do.” BURN.

          I remember one of the most obnoxious customers was a woman. She told me that I did not know any thing about plants because it was biologically impossible for me to learn about such things. As a woman my brain was not developed enough for the subject.

          I let her go look for a man to talk with and the men handled it in their usual manner. I have many more stories of women behaving poorly. I developed a theory that women should be held responsible for perpetuating the problems, also.

          Today I see less blatant stuff but there is still plenty of it going on.

          1. Tomato Frog*

            I developed a theory that women should be held responsible for perpetuating the problems, also.

            Anyone who says otherwise is a dope. It’s not like women are raised in a parallel dimension where there’s perfect gender equality. We all got the same messages about what women and men are and should be, regardless of our gender. Why would women magically be less sexist than men when reaised in the same circumstances? At best, we just have more immediate and obvious incentive to examine and overcome our sexist beliefs.

    23. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Keep in mind that sexism goes both ways. Interrupting a man to get him to carry something to another room or the car. Asking a man to reach for something up higher or climb a ladder. I admit that I catch myself thinking of the “grumpy old man” trope or the “benevolent grandfather” type and then not paying as much attention or valuing their input as a human.

      Societal, unconscious sexism is rampant and I think people are really starting to notice those stereotypes now.

      1. INFJ*

        I generally agree but have a quibble with the height thing. I’m 5 foot 1 so everybody is taller than me. However, generally speaking, men are taller than women. I don’t think it’s sexist for a human in need to ask another human for help if that taller person happens to usually be male. It’s only when you ask BECAUSE they’re male that it’s an issue. (Which is hard to determine from behavior alone; you never really know intent.)

        Similar example: If a guy holds the door open for me because he’s a generally nice person and would hold the door open if I were a man, that’s OK. But if he holds the door open for me because I’m a woman, less OK. Again, hard to judge without knowing intent.

        1. LQ*

          This is one I weirdly and frequently call out. The tall thing. I’m taller than most men, even in the land of generally taller men. Occasionally I’ve had a people ask a shorter male coworker to get something, often things I am near, and either just given them the Are You Kidding look and reached up to grab it while male coworker was stretching. And once with someone I knew well I just straight out asked if they needed Male to get it with his pen.. because I was like 6 inches taller than Male. So weird. It happened a lot more when I was younger, people are now much happier to take advantage of my height. And yes, to all the short old ladies in the grocery store, I’m happy to get something off the top shelf for you. Even when you tell me that means I’ll make a great wife.

          1. Undercover for this*

            Yep, I’m really tall, too, and am frequently asked by shorter, older ladies if I can reach things for them at the grocery store.

      2. Anonymous Educator*

        The only time this has bothered me is when it’s simply because they’re men and not because they’re actually stronger (to carry something) or taller (to reach something up high).

        If the dude is a body builder in his spare time or just a big guy in general, there’s nothing wrong with asking him to help you carry something, so long as you would ask a strong woman the same thing.

        Likewise, if you ask both tall men and tall women to reach things for you (assuming you’re shorter), no issue there.

        I have, however, seen situations in which women have asked scrawny small guys to carry things… uh, why?

    24. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Also, fresh out of high school I worked for a local small eatery. The owner was the father of a classmate. Several of my friends all worked at this restaurant. Until one day when the owner made a comment about being able to “smell” us at our time of the month and how he intentionally reduced our hours then. We all left within a month.

    25. MsMaryMary*

      I think there’s less blatant sexual harrassment than there used to be (not that harrassment has disappeared: see Fox News), but there’s still a lot of subtle or behind closed doors sexism. A colleague told me earlier this week that when she hired a new assistant her male coworkers asked what color the new hire’s hair is. Apparently they were hoping for a blond.

      A new C suite exec came into my company and chose two women to lead a new sales initiative. He got pushback from other leaders because “they’re mothers, they can’t sell.”

      A VP Was angry that the same new exec and another manager met with his assistant (who is really supposed to be the department admin, not his assistant) without asking him for permission. He was venting to me and told me the exec was “pissing on his territory.” So his assisant is his territory and something men should pee on to mark.

      I could go on, but I’m depressing myself.

    26. Anonnosaurus*

      Thank you all so much for your comments. This has been a very eye-opening thread for me. I’ve be rethinking basically my entire life and while I’ve definitely experienced sexism outside the workplace, I think I’ve somehow found myself lucky enough to be in the 10% who have managed to avoid it in the workplace. Is there anything those of us in the 10% can do to help or support the other 90%? What kinds of things would you like to see someone in my position do?

      1. MegaMoose, Esq*

        I find it deeply frustrating when people who haven’t experienced X behavior use that personal experience to push back on the validity of other people’s experiences (i.e. it hasn’t happened to me, so it must not happen as often/as bad as you say it does). I know that not doing something isn’t as exciting as doing something, it does help not to be That Person.

        1. Anonnosaurus*

          I hope I didn’t give the impression I don’t believe women don’t experience sexism just because I’ve been lucky enough not to. I absolutely realize that this is a reality for many women, but the 90% statistic just sounded so outrageously high! Knowing what a depressingly realistic figure it is will hopefully help me be a better ally.
          I know that hulk smash the patriarchy isn’t realistic advice, but that is more the kind of response I was hoping for…

          1. MegaMoose, Esq*

            Oh no, not at all! I meant that in response to your question of what you can do to help/support. Your question was perfectly well phrased.

      2. Ashley*

        Push back when you hear the boss say things like “the girls” in the office. Or if you see someone asking a guy to carry something offer yourself if you are able. Fight the stereotypes.

        1. 2e*

          Yes! I think it can be a lot easier and more effective for an observer, rather than the subject or target of a comment, to push back. It doesn’t have to be verbal – actions are helpful too. For example, one time a coworker deliberately slowed the pace he was walking because he saw that I was struggling to keep up during a surprise walk to court over treacherous un-repaired sidewalks. We weren’t in a hurry, or anything – it just didn’t occur to my male colleagues that a shorter stride, heels, and a relatively heavier file bag would slow me down. Once two of us were falling behind, though, they noticed and slowed their pace. It’s often the little things that wear on me on a day-to-day basis, so small improvements like this help a lot.

      3. LadyKelvin*

        Also, sexism huts men in ways we don’t think about. If you are in a position to push for policy changes that make it more easy for men to be family friendly (paternity leave!) I’d recommend that as a good start. Changing our world view that being a women means more time off to have babies by allowing men equal time off to be home with their babies I think is a good start to really eliminating the baby penalty that women experience.

      4. ByLetters*

        When you see it happen, speak up! That’s what often gets to me — if people say nothing, that’s condoning the behavior. Not just in the workplace, but in general; if we allow it to continue to take place in our society, it will take place in all aspects of our society.

      5. Ann O.*

        So I am also in the if not in the 10%, in whatever lucky percentage has only a few anecdotes of obvious harassment (although I wouldn’t be shocked to learn of salary discrepancies). But I’ve read a bunch about this and experienced some positive support.

        I don’t know what type of role you’re in, but if you are in any type of role where there are meetings to suggest ideas, intentionally-but-not-explicitly support your female co-workers. Echo and acknowledge their contributions (i.e. “Yes, [co-worker name] that’s a really great idea to [summary]”). In statistical aggregate, women’s contributions tend to get either unrecognized at all or attributed to male co-workers (this IS one of my experiences of sexism–I’ve had work that I did be assumed to be my male co-workers. He, being a decent human, immediately clarified that it was mine. But an ambitious a-hole wouldn’t correct that.) Help them get credit.

        If you are in supervisory role, encourage your deserving female reports to think about raises or promotions. Don’t wait for them to come to you because men are more likely to self-promote than women (as, in statistical aggregate, men get rewarded for it and women risk being punished for it). Also, do not volunteer women to be on social planning committees.

      6. New Bee*

        You might look around your workplace and see if you observe sexism intersecting with other identity markers. For example, are women of color, or with lower-class markers, or who are overweight treated differently? Like folks say below, you (if you have the opposite privilege markers) might be well-positioned to advocate on their behalf.

    27. FiveWheels*

      I’ve observed it in one way or another at every job, but never personally suffered from it. It’s possible the 10% fall into that group.

    28. Jenny*

      I am lucky but I heard my female boss say “I have to stop hiring women in their 30s” after three colleagues all went on material its leave at the same time. She also told me I wasn’t allowed to get pregnant for at least a year.

      1. Jenny*

        I also held a sound tech job in college and had one gig where the contact kept referring all questions to my male colleague instead of me. I was training him, he had no sound experience, I was the senior student on staff.

    29. Turbovicki*

      I work in a heavily male-dominated field, and oh boy howdy, sexism is incredibly real. In my first job in the industry, my male boss sexually harassed me so much I was afraid he was going to attack me. I gathered conversations, and brought them to HR, who told me they would handle things. The next day, low and behold, I had a private meeting scheduled, just the two of us! In a room alone! For an hour! Ahahaha, no thank you, actually. I resigned and had a new job with a 25k payraise two weeks later…which is how I learned connections are important! It was an awful thing to go through but I learned that I’m a lot stronger than others may think, and there is no way in hell I’m going through that again.

    30. LadyKelvin*

      I’m in science and I routinely meet with an international panel of scientists. I’m also usually the only women and the youngest by 10-20 years. I will make a statement and no one will respond. Someone else will repeat what I said verbatim, and everyone will declare that’s the best idea they’ve heard. It has happened often enough that it wasn’t just a fluke.

      Also, yesterday I was standing in our kitchen making tea and a guy came up to me and told me that I should take my tea bag out of my cup after letting it brew for a couple of minutes because it tastes better that way and that’s what the string on the bag is for. Unfortunately I was too shocked to respond in anyway except “Yeah, I know” and walk away. I’d be willing to guess (like everyone else) that you haven’t “experienced” sexism in the workplace because it is so pervasive that it feels normal and you don’t realize it was sexist.

      1. MegaMoose, Esq*

        What? I thought that string was so you had something to twirl around your fingers while gazing idly out the window and planning what to cook Dear Hubby for dinner! Who knew?

      2. Kaybee*

        I commend you for not forcefully jerking your tea bag out of your cup in a way that would have splattered him with tea. Though he would have deserved it.

        I was at a conference once where you picked up your nametag in its plastic holder then grabbed a lanyard from a bin and clipped the lanyard to the nametag holder. Not too complicated. This was also breakfast time, and I was much more concerned with getting my desired flavor of muffin and my caffeine fix than I was with assembling my nametag. So I was sitting at a table by the time I got around to connecting my lanyard to the nametag holder. No sooner had I picked up the two pieces then the man sitting next to me reaches over, grabs both pieces, and connects them. He then hands it back to me, saying cheerfully, “there you go!” At no point did he ask me if I wanted his assistance or even inform me of his intentions. He just grabbed and assembled. And the worst part was, you could see that he thought he had done a really nice thing. I was dumbfounded. As much as I wish I had come back with a scathing retort, I remember just sitting there for ages with my mouth in a perfect “o.” And little things like this happen all the time. You’re right that it just starts to feel normal after a while.

      3. INFJ*

        I think “Yeah, I know” and walking away is the perfect response! Extra points if you say it in a tone that expresses, “Duh! Of course I know that”

      4. FiveWheels*

        Err, if a woman says she hasn’t experienced sexism, why is another woman trying to deny that?

    31. Spoonie*

      There was a rumor circulating that I only got my job because I was dating my friend/coworker and my dept manager hired me as a favor, not based on my merits as a potential employee. In the experience of my dept manager telling me about this rumor, he only spoke with me to confirm/deny said relationship (uh no), not said friend/coworker.

      My current department is heavily skewed male. I’m an avid fan of a particular sport. Any time I attempt to contribute to the conversation about said sport, I get a look like “oh, she speaks…” and then get roundly ignored.

      I was once in a meeting where one woman was trying to state her opinion but kept getting interrupted. Another woman (!!!) would then start with “What I think Jane is trying to say…”

      Those are only the highlights from the past 6 months at one job.

    32. JanetM*

      Things have changed over time — I’m old enough to remember that the classified ads were separated into “Help Wanted — Men” and “Help Wanted — Women.”

      I remember my mother, who was an office manager at a large law firm, saying once that she preferred to hire single mothers for secretarial positions because they couldn’t afford to quit. (At the time — I was a preteen — I thought it was ingenious; now I find it horrifying.)

      As recently as 10 years ago, the restrooms in one of the older buildings on campus were still labeled “Men – Faculty,” “Men – Students,” “Women – Staff,” and “Women – Students.” Those were finally updated when the building was completely renovated and now simply say “Men” and “Women.”

      Within the last seven years, a salary study commissioned by our Faculty Senate found that even after correcting for field, education, and seniority, women faculty are paid less on average than men faculty at all ranks.

    33. meat lord*

      While I haven’t ever gotten hit with any blatant sexism from coworkers (and am also not a woman despite looking like one), I’ve heard disgustingly sexist comments from customers, and dealt with subtler misogyny from coworkers.

      I think the most overt example was when I was working at a grocery store and a man asked why they were “letting a woman lift things,” while I put a case of water bottles in his cart for him.

    34. FlyingFergus*

      I made a case to the CEO at my last place that I was doing the equivalent, if not better, job as a male who had been hired a year or two after me. He was getting paid over 20k more than me. Both of my supervisors backed me up, and the CEO didn’t dispute that I was doing the same job. But he said he couldn’t give me a raise because I had to work on being flexible and pitching in to help, and you know, he wanted to hire an assistant also, but didn’t have the money to do so.

      Immediately, I thought, “would he have suggested to a male employee that he should be flexible and take a lower salary out of consideration for the company? Hell, no!”

      Second thought was, “that stinks you can’t hire for a position. But that has nothing to do with the work I’m doing.”

      What I said out loud, “well, no. Because I’ll quit.”

      He ended up giving me the raise when he realized I was serious about quitting. I quit later anyway because it turns out that the company as a whole is not only sexist, but also racist.

      It was a nonprofit, and I found out later they had about 9 million in reserve.

    35. AJaya*

      I was just listening to an interesting podcast where a trans man described the changes in his experience in the workforce first as a woman, then as an openly transgender person, and finally at his new company as a perceived cisgender man. One difference he noted was that as his new company people view him as more knowledgeable, experienced, and as an authority figure despite it being in an entry-level position in a new field. They also value his opinion more.

    36. Woman of a Certain Age*

      I’ve really notice it a lot in how women are judged by how they dress. Men don’t have as many options in terms of style and (I think) they get off pretty easy in general.

      OTOH, women are judged more harshly on their makeup (too much or not enough), or by how formally or casually they dress. Still, even I am, not so much shocked, but sort of disappointed when I see how (not casual, but sloppy) some of the younger people in our office dress.

      1. Lissa*

        Yes, I would say the place where I have most experienced sexism is to do with appearance. I have never been harassed and have worked mostly in female-dominated workplaces. My “look” is less put together than most women and I have heard comments about needing to wear makeup to be more professional and I stress *far more* about something that isn’t an aspect of my job than a man would — making sure I look OK, etc.

        I’ve had sexist coworkers over the years but I’m lucky in that it’s never been a situation where I have felt unsafe or like I’m losing out on opportunity due to being female. However, I have a tough time negotiating for pay raises and tend to feel like I don’t deserve what I make, and I suspect a lot of that comes from female socialization at least in part.

    37. Kerr*

      For what it’s worth, I’m an admin, and haven’t been high-ranking enough to experience some of the issues that others have with regard to promotions or projects. I’ve been fortunate that my experience with really egregious workplace sexism has been minimal. I’ve also worked longest in female-majority workplaces, which might have something to do with it.

      In my experience, most things have been subtle. Except for weird CEO dude who said “milady”…

      – Women being the only ones to set up or clean up food/event stuff. I’ve certainly had men help out, but usually the guys just cruise away and the (typically older) women help clean up.
      – Higher-ranking women have made “You know how women are!” comments about women being more catty/emotional/dramatic at work. (Uh, no. And please don’t judge my work output with that filter!)
      – Sexist turns of phrase that aren’t directed at anyone and aren’t horrific or harassment, but they’re insensitive and demeaning to women in general. I’m sure most of the men making these comments would be surprised to hear this, because they aren’t targeting anyone in particular, but they’re cringey.
      – In customer-facing jobs, of course there are comments from customers and vendors, but I put those in a separate category.
      – The situations where nothing is “wrong” per se, but you wonder whether a man in the same situation would be doing the same amount of admin tasks as a woman, or (the flip side) if a woman could get away with not learning XYZ and foisting it off on an admin.
      – And of course, people assuming that you just want to do support work forever, plus the typical admin pay rates! That’s more of a pink-collar issue than a specific workplace issue, though.

    38. Nic*

      I grew up in a very conservative small town in a Southern state, and I felt that way, too, until I moved to the “big city” and started reading more blogs like this one. There were behaviors that I wasn’t even recognizing as sexist that were going on constantly. They were so much a part of my life that they didn’t register until I saw other people reacting to them in shock.

  60. LizB*

    I’m hiring for the first time, and I’m actually finding it super fun! I love looking over resumes, doing phone screens, and hearing about people’s cool work and interesting backgrounds. The hardest part is going to be narrowing down the pool of who I’m going to bring in for in-person interviews… but in the meantime, I’m really enjoying myself!

      1. LizB*

        Most of my folks have been interesting in good ways… although there was the one who chose to use the Cover Letter section of the application to cuss the organization out over our failure to tell him he had been rejected for another position. Yeah, he’s not getting a job here anytime soon.

    3. INFJ*

      My company allows members of the department to participate in hiring interviews, and I also LOVE reading over resumes, learning about candidates, and trying to come up with tailored questions to get to the heart of whether they really want/can do the position.

      Glad to hear you’re enjoying it!

      1. LizB*

        Ha, I’ve been thinking that it does feel really nosy judging people’s experience and poking holes in their work history, but it’s authorized and purposeful nosiness so I don’t even feel bad about it. :D

  61. TuxMax*

    I had an interview with a Fortune 500 company with three different individuals on 3/30 and I thought it went great! I heard back from HR on 4/7 and they informed me that they liked me however were thinking of hiring me on as a level lower than what was applied for and then train me to get to the position applied for (does that make sense? Still a senior position) and I said of course! She informed me that she would try to get back to me end of next week (4/14) and also gave me all her information to follow up and now nothing. I emailed 4/14 just after 5pm and then left a voicemail 4/19 in the morning. I received no out of office. I did not get the impression that she would blow me off or never get back to me. I left my last job on 3/31 after being there 11 years. I’m eager to get back to work and a temp agency approached me with a three month contract – I explained to them my situation and they said I should wait a little longer. My question is should I hold out or start taking temp work – I would hate to be in a situation where I get trained and then just get up and leave especially a three month contract.

    1. Anon Anon*

      I think at this point I might email and briefly explain your situation. That you are very interested in the position, but that you have been offered a long-term contract, and that you need to let the recruiter of the long-term contract know by “X” date.

      There are many places where I’ve interviewed that gave me the impression that they would contact me either way about an outcome, and some even say that they do, but they didn’t. Things change all the time. So i think at this point letting the company you interviewed with know that you have an other opportunity is a good move.

  62. Bossy Magoo*

    Just wanted to share this story.

    My teenage son has had a job at a local restaurant for almost 2 years. He’s learned a lot there and even wrote his college application essay about life-lessons from his experience (and was accepted into a bunch of great schools! Freshman this fall). Some of those lessons are about dealing with difficult people. Like his manager who I suspect might be a functioning alcoholic based on some of the stories he’s told us.

    In any event, she has a history of erratic and/or childish behavior such as making an employee stand in the corner as “time-out” when she threw away excess cheese that looked to be slimy; or holding grudges against employees who give their resignation notice. As a result there are a lot of people who just stop showing up for work because to give a 2 weeks notice means having to endure her wrath during those 2 weeks.

    My son is a typical teenager and therefore certainly not a perfect employee, but in general has a history of being conscientious and reliable. He works weekends only. A few weeks ago he told her he would not be able to work the following weekend because we were going out of town for “accepted students” day at the school he will be attending in the fall. She was a little miffed, but said okay. The next day at work he was scheduled to work until 6:00, but she called that morning to see if he could come in an hour early because someone had done a no-call, no-show. He went in and then she put him on the worst, dirtiest job in the restaurant and then kind of rode his butt all day, yelling at him at every turn. At 4:15 she yelled at him in front of customers to clock out. It was a couple of hours earlier than he expected, but he figured it was because he came in early, and was glad to go. Then as he was walking out the front door she yelled across the restaurant, “YOU’RE SCHEDULED UNTIL 6:00, WHERE ARE YOU GOING???” and he said, “you told me to clock out” and she yelled “FINNNNNE! LEAVE!” so he did.

    The next weekend we were away. Then the weekend after that (this past weekend) he wasn’t on the schedule at all. In anticipation of this upcoming weekend I told him to call and see if he’s scheduled, and if he’s not he needs to ask her why. He called last night and he was not on the schedule. When he asked why she said, “I put you on a leave of absence” and then hung up on him. We’re assuming this means he’s been fired. #LifeLessons

    1. Leatherwings*

      The boss sounds completely unhinged! I’m so sorry for your son, but he sounds very mature. I hope he has a great experience at college!

    2. Collie*

      Yikes. Sounds like he’s got a pretty good head on his shoulders and good parent to guide him when his head’s not so good. Wishing him luck at school!

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Yep. My husband worked in restaurants for 15 years and he still surprises me with unbelievable stories. But they aren’t unbelievable stories to him, they are just regular everyday stories of restaurant life!

        1. paul*

          There was a restaurant at the bottom of the mountain I grew up on; we were a hill or two off the interstate corridor and I guess they were trying for tourist traffic or something, but anyway I got a job there under the table at 14 because it was the only place in walking distance.

          It closed down when the cook tried to choke one of the waitstaff, and then hit a cop with a skillet when the county cops showed up. During all the fallout from that the owners decided they were done and closed it down.

          That was my introduction to restaurants. I’ve never wanted to work in one again.

            1. SeekingBetter*

              Yup, I agree with not missing anything. I used to work at a food service place where I can never take time off and worked around 65-70 hours every week. A complete soul-sucking job.

  63. Anon Anon*

    I had an interview today. It’s the only interview that will be conducted (although I’ve already met the CEO elsewhere). The interview itself went pretty well, and they did bring what I though were the right people. However, it’s yet another interview I’ve gone on that I don’t know a thing about salary, benefits, etc. It drives me nuts. I am employed in a job I like with good benefits. And yet, i have no idea if I’ve just wasted everyone’s time because I know nothing about the organization I interviewed with benefits.

    For example, I won’t accept a job that doesn’t provide the salary I want (or close to it), plus the ability to work from home at least one day a week (or more if the commute isn’t great), excellent PTO, and a solid retirement package. Some organizations in my field offer these things, and some organizations offer horrible salaries and crappy benefits. I hate the fact that I don’t know which one it is in this case unless I get a job offer.

    1. SeekingBetter*

      Maybe there’s a way to research their base benefits on the web? Try to ask during a final interview so as to not wait until a job offer is extended? Good luck!

    2. Tomato Frog*

      Ugh, yeah, I’ve been thinking about this lately. I’m in a situation where I’m in a good-pay low-stress job. On one hand it’s really nice to job search without desperation, but on the other hand it means I’m pickier than when I was just starting out. I’m interested in more challenging jobs, but only if they pay a decent chunk more than I make now. Going home at five and not thinking about work after that is worth something, damn it.

      Plus, I’ve been interviewing at universities and while I’m not faculty, the hiring process sort of mirrors that for faculty so it’s at least a full-day interview plus travel plus a presentation to prepare. That’s a lot of work for both me and them, only to potentially find out they couldn’t pay the minimum I would accept, anyway. Just post a range in the job ad, people.

    3. Construction Safety*

      Them: “Do you have any questions for us?”
      You: Any questions you do have and then, “Can you give me a sense of what your benefits are like?”

      A company with decent/good benefits will tell you, otherwise……

  64. Shamy*

    I have a health insurance/work related question, and would love to know if anyone has ever been in this situation. I am a contractor with minimal benefits, no leave, no paid holidays, etc. However, if I work at least half time, I am eligible for a subsidy on my health insurance. I recently learned my subsidy was discontinued due to not enough hours, and they want me to pay my full premium for the next 2 months. However, the months they looked at, I was hospitalized for a week with an infection so severe, I had to have a PICC line inserted for another 2 weeks post hospital stay just to go home. My doctor did not want me to return to work until the PICC line was removed and I was more stable.

    They looked at a full year, however, I didn’t have health insurance through them except the last 3 months they looked at, and the hospital stay was towards the end. In the months since then I have worked more than half time hours aside from closings and holidays. Obviously, since I don’t have leave, I couldn’t put in hours. Do I have any sort of recourse or does anyone have suggestions? It is a state government agency if it matters.

    1. ..Kat..*

      I am so sorry. This is a sucky situation. I am assuming you are in the US of A. I am a nurse, and the social worker for my unit helps patients with their insurance needs (how to best access their insurance, do they qualify for Medicaid/ Medicare, how to deal with denial of coverage, etc). Can you contact the hospital to talk with such a person? The ins and outs of insurance are complicated and maybe such a person can make sure you are getting the insurance you are entitled to. I have had insurance companies tell me I did not qualify for something when I in fact did. Someone like my unit social worker is someone I would trust more. Good luck.

      Can you do some sort of go-fund-me? Through your work? Many work places have charity drives. No reason why you should not be a recipient.

  65. KR*

    Hello all! I’m happy to announce I’ll be starting work on Monday by going on my very first overnight business trip for training. I have a lot of questions though.
    The guidelines I’ve been given for work travel is that I should record all the time I spend travelling minus my commute to work (as I’m an hourly employee). The reasoning is very clear but it’s still strange to me that they would be paying me for sitting in the airport, driving to the airport (it’s about an hour farther away from my house than work is), sitting on a plane, ect. I’ve also been told that I should expense all of my meals but I feel so uncomfortable with that seeing as I would be paying for food at home – why not on a business trip!? I guess I’m looking for a) tips on feeling more comfortable expense-ing things during travel, b) general business travel tips for a female, and/or c)first business travel experiences as a brand new employee (my first day will be on a plane).

    Another question that’s kind of work related: Does anyone have any experience with the Military Spouse Residency Relief Act? It allows military spouses that are in a state for the express purpose of living with their husband stationed there to pay their home state’s income taxes opposed to the state they live in. My home state has no income tax and I live in a heavily California, so heavily taxed. Currently my work paperwork is set up to withhold California income taxes. My HR is in a different state so I can’t just sit down with them and ask, I filled out my W4 on an online form by myself and not in paper form, and pretty much my worst fear is doing my taxes and finding out I owe like a billion dollars in unpaid taxes. Has anyone done this before or have any advice getting it set up??

    Thank you!!

    2. TCO*

      Your company’s guidelines about payment are entirely reasonable and very common for business travel. I look at it this way: any business trip (even those I enjoy) is taking me away from my home life. I don’t get say in what I do that day, I don’t get to sleep where I want to, I miss out on time for my personal life (whether that be fun stuff or responsibilities). It’s a mild inconvenience at best, even when it’s fun. That’s why your company is paying for your travel time, meals, and lodging–because they’re dictating how and where you’re spending your time that day.

      Have a great trip!

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Remember that you would not be doing any of these things (sitting in an airport, buying coffee from a coffee shop in the airport or the city you’re visiting, buying food in the city you’re visiting, etc.) if you weren’t working. Expense everything– if something isn’t covered, they’ll tell you. Just keep things reasonable. For instance, if they don’t give you price guidelines, don’t get $100 worth of sushi, but you can probably order a $20 pasta dish at dinner. My old company wouldn’t blink an eye at an expensed glass of wine, but for your first trip, I would buy the wine yourself.

      Re: your first trip, my advice is the same as it would be for any other first day. Pay attention, ask questions at appropriate intervals, follow your boss’s lead. Have fun!

      2. Wheezy Weasel*

        I agree. If you don’t know the company food/drink culture for expenses yet, I usually keep my budget at Olive Garden and Outback Steakhouse prices for entrees and if a senior person mentions we can spend more, I’m all for it. You can get some great guidelines on Meals and Incidental Expenses on the GSA.gov website as an example of what’s common for government and state employees. I can’t imagine you’d get pinged for spending that amount in a private company, but my time reading AAM has proven me wrong countless times before.

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      The thought behind allowing you to expense things like meals while traveling is that eating out is often far more expensive than cooking food for yourself at home or eating leftovers or whatnot. You are required to be out of town for a business purpose, so the hassle of eating at a restaurant for every meal is compensated.

      Same with paying you for your travel time, minus your commute. You are only at the airport because of business. Otherwise, that would be time you’d spend at home or doing whatever else it is that you do in your personal time. So you get compensated for the hassle and for technically performing a business function.

      You’ll get used to it! If you’re nervous about the costs, there are typically guidelines for how much you should spend on each meal. Follow those to ease your mind.

    5. CAA*

      In California, your company is legally required to pay you for travel time in excess of your commute. Do not feel bad about it, they are just following the law. It is also totally normal for them to pay for all your meals as well as the hotel room, taxi or parking at the airport, etc. Please do it, even if you are uncomfortable. If you don’t, then either your manager or accounting may very well come and ask you to redo the expense report properly (I have done that when it looks like people forgot to account for something). It’s really better for everyone if you do it right the first time, especially when this is one of the first tasks you’re doing at a brand new job.

      Get a receipt for everything and save them all in one place. I have a zipper pocket in my purse where I put all that stuff. Don’t forget to write down the amount that you tip on the meal receipts.

      When you get back from your trip, call your HR people and explain that you need to submit a DE-4 (CA equivalent of the W-4) because of your state tax situation. On the DE-4, just check the box on line 3 next to the statement that says “I certify under penalty of perjury that I am not subject to California withholding. I meet the conditions set forth under the Service Member Civil Relief Act, as amended by the Military Spouses Residency Relief Act.”

      1. KR*

        Thank you for the information about the DE-4. I’ve been doing research and saw that term floating around but it’s all so confusing. I’m so glad they have a box for it. The first time I filled out the W-4, I did it by myself and it was with a computer program so I was scared I would do it wrong if I tried to do the exemption bit. I’m very excited about skipping the California withholding though!

        1. Natalie*

          Just to ease your mind for future W4s – a W4 is just an informational document to assist your company in withholding the correct amount of tax. It isn’t filed with the IRS. If you fill it out incorrectly, you’ll either have a large refund or a large bill come tax time (which you can get on a payment plan for). You won’t be fined or anything. :)

          And you can update a W4 at any time if something changes, or if you become aware that you filled it out incorrectly.

          1. KR*

            This is so good to read. I guess if I can’t work it out with my company I’ll see it come next tax season. :)

    6. Karen K*

      I’ll address the meals issue only. When you’re away from home, you are probably eating all, or most, of your meals in restaurants, so your food costs are much higher than when you’re at home.

  66. Seren*

    I’m looking for internal transfer jobs, and my manager already knows and is supportive. When should I tell my supervisor that I’m looking? Key point – Super walked into a meeting of me and my manager while we were on a conference call talking about my job search. Super may not have heard anything, but I’m not positive.

    1. KR*

      I think you should. If your manager is on board, then hopefully your supervisor will be too. Your manager might know if your supervisor will be cool about it.

  67. Bigglesworth*

    Hey everyone!

    Just wanted to let you all know that I am officially going to be attending George Mason University this fall for law school (looking at getting my JD/MPP)! I’ve talked about this for years (literally) and it’s really exciting to finally be able to pursue a goal I set for myself 9 years ago. Plus, GMU came back with more scholarship money than I was expecting ($32,000 out of $40,000 tuition) with the opportunity for a free ride after the first year. I’ve also been talking with the As. Dean of Career Services and there’s a good chance I can be hired on as a research assistant for one of the professors who teaches what I want to practice (international social justice/human rights law).

    All that said, does anyone have any advice for grad and/or law school? I would love to hear how others have gone through school, especially those who have left a career to go back to school full-time. Anything would be appreciated!

    1. Andraste*

      Be very career-focused while in law school. You’re going for a purpose–to get a job. Network, set up internships at places where you are likely to get a job, do everything you can to get your name out to companies that would be in a position to hire you. Not focusing on the job-searching aspects as much as I should have was my biggest mistake while in law school (although I did manage to land on my feet eventually!).

      1. Bigglesworth*

        That’s good to know! I remember when I initially interviewed with the school, I told them I was going back to school to get a job. Do you have any suggestions on how to network? Would attending to events, being involved in clinics, and doing internships count, or are you thinking about something different?

        1. Andraste*

          I thought my clinic experience was very valuable, and it has helped me find paying work post-graduation. Another option would be an externship–I know lots of classmates who turned an externship into a job. I would definitely recommend you do one or the other. Put a lot of effort into finding an internship your 1L summer and ESPECIALLY your 2L summer. Many firms and legal employers have 2L internships specifically to identify potential hires, so take that seriously.

    2. Temperance*

      I wouldn’t call secretarial work a career (for me), but I quit my craptastic admin job for law school back in 2010. It was the right move for me. I was feeling like garbage every day because my job was unchallenging and I frankly hated every minute of secretarial work. My dream was to go into publishing, but I had no connections to get my foot in the door.

      First of all, congrats! Second of all, my advice to you is this: you now have 2 full-time jobs. Classwork is #1, and Networking/Clubs/Volunteering/Interning is #2. I had plenty of classmates who were good students but never stepped out at all, and I think it hurt them, career-wise. I didn’t have the best GPA, and I have a job that is very sought after (large firm pro bono). I still belong to networking groups who were impressed with my leadership when I was a student.

      1. Bigglesworth*

        I’ve been in food service, retail, and am now an admin in higher education, so I can relate to wanting to leave an admin role. I have a good team, but this kind of work is now my cup of tea.

        One of the reasons I chose GMU is because of the clinics. What all did you do in law school that you think helped set you up for success? What sorts of networking groups did you belong to or is that something the Career Services staff might be able to help me with? Would you say your GPA is really important when looking for a job?

        1. Temperance*

          Clinics are awesome! What kinds are you interested in?

          I have a really niche job – I’m the pro bono coordinator at a law firm. I did a lot of pro bono/nonprofit work while in law school, but I really like working at a firm. I did a ton of pro bono in law school, which I think really helped me gain legal skills and showed me what kinds of work I seriously hate. I also was involved in the Student Bar Association, was on the exec board of our student Irish American legal org, and was on the board of a few other orgs.

          I belong to a networking group for Irish Americans, and I have an unofficial Lean In Circle with some friends. I also make myself go to Philly Bar Association meetings, and recently, I’ve been to a bunch of fundraisers that my work paid for and I’ve met some awesome people that way.

          GPA is super important for high prestige jobs, and it’s always helpful to have a good GPA, but mine was average and I’m okay.

          1. Bigglesworth*

            There are several that I’m interested in. There’s an Administrative Law Clinic and one of the things that it focuses on is monitoring agencies to make sure that they are in legal compliance. There’s also a Mental Health Clinic. Mental health issues run on my spouse’s side of the family and I want to know how to be the best attorney possible when my future clients have mental health issues. There’s an Art & Entertainment Advocacy clinic, which I’m interested in solely because my spouse is working towards being an entertainment electrician/technician. And finally, there is the Supreme Court Clinic, which sounds fascinating! You work in the Supreme Court and help attornies write briefs that help decide what cases go before the Supreme Court. I don’t know if I can do all of them, but those are the four I’m interested in.

            And thanks for all of the ideas on how to network! I’ll definitely look into the different organizations at the school and see what’s available in the DC area once we get there. I really appreciate the advice!

            1. Temperance*

              WHOA. I would totally go for appellate and Supreme Court, if you can’t do all 4. Especially Supreme Court – that’s a huge, and amazing, opportunity! (I can’t say much about Arts Law, since I don’t really know much about it, and Mental Health law is interesting but I’m burned out on working with the mentally ill, so YMMV, obvs).

              This is so, so cool. I’m so happy for you!

              1. Bigglesworth*

                Thanks! The Supreme Court Clinic was one of the major draws to this school for me. I’m really hoping that I’ll be able to get in!

    3. Leena Wants Cake*

      Yes yes yes to all the above comments. When you graduate make sure you have not only a degree, but actual experience working in your intended field. Figure out what skills (soft and technical) someone in your intended career needs and use the grad school years to get that hands-on experience, even if it’s only in a volunteer role or occasional work. I know too many people who graduated and couldn’t land a job (particularly in law) because they spent all their time being a good law/grad student.

      1. Bigglesworth*

        I have a friend that graduated with a Master in International Studies, no relevant job experience, and now works in insurance because he can’t find a job in his field of study. I want to really avoid that. I am going to law school to be an attorney and want to keep that as my focus. Would you say that getting experience is better than maintaining a high GPA?

        1. Turanga Leela*

          My answer would be to do both. Do your reading, study, and get the best grades you can… but then also get some pro bono experience and spend time networking.

          If it comes down to it, I would say it’s more important to get work experience than to spend every waking hour doing your homework. People spend an enormous amount of time reading the assigned cases, briefing every case, and buying all the supplemental materials that their friends recommend. You can drive yourself crazy doing that. Do the reading, make a real effort to understand it (which sometimes means reading a hornbook, but not always), and then stop.

        2. Andraste*

          I would also say I think the experience is ultimately more valuable. I graduated with a pretty low GPA due to a bad mental health spell 1L year. Experience helped show I could do the work, though. Ideally, its best if you can have both a good GPA and experience, but I think experience is more important. If your GPA is low but you still pass the bar, you’re a lawyer just as much as anyone else.

          1. Bigglesworth*

            I’ve heard a similar statement about doctors – You know what they call a medical student who graduates last in med school? Doctor.

            And good to know. What did you do to gain the experience? I’ve heard so much depends on your grades, but I already have work experience and plan on doing the clinics and externships while in school.

            1. Andraste*

              My 3L year I did a clinic where we represented minors in juvenile court. We handled our own cases start to finish so I did manage to graduate with some actual court room experience. My first paying legal job after passing the bar was working as a court appointed attorney in a youth court, and I don’t think I would have gotten the appointment without the clinical experience.

    4. LadyKelvin*

      Congrats! Fairfax is a really nice part of DC, I think you’ll like it there. My advice will be to treat grad school like a job. I “worked” (attended classes, homework, research, etc) from 9-6 most days and then went home and made dinner and lived my life. That meant I had time to decompress, and time for things like networking and volunteering. Of course, there were times were I worked all day and night and all weekend, but I tried to make them the exception and not the rule. I think that really saved my mental health and actually allowed me to finish much earlier than my peers, since during my work time I was only working and during my play time I was only playing. It forced me to be more productive in the long term. Good luck (and awesome about the scholarships!)

      1. Bigglesworth*

        Thank you! I’m really nervous about finding a place to live there from a distance, but I’ve heard nice things about Fairfax. The law campus is in Arlington, but my spouse’s school is in Dulles, so Fairfax seems to be a good middle spot for us. And the scholarships really sealed the deal for me! :)

        Did you work before you went to school? I’m currently in a 9-6 job and I’ve heard the idea from several people that treating school as work is the way to go. Are mental health issues really common in grad/law school? My spouse deals with anxiety and depression, so it’s definitely something that I’m aware of. Part of what I try to do is keep my own mental health…well… healthy, in order to help my spouse when he needs it. Does that make sense?

        1. LadyKelvin*

          I used to live in Ballston (neighborhood of Arlington) its a really nice area. I didn’t work before I got my master’s but I did work post-master’s pre-phd, so I was in the mindset of working when I went back to school. Unfortunately mental health issues are really prevalent in grad school (not sure about law school but I’d be willing to bet they are prevalent there too). The biggest thing I think is that there is a stigma to not working all the time and pushing yourself past your breaking point. Somehow having a nervous breakdown during you degree is a badge of honor. There is also a lot of pressure to be the best, put in the most hours, study the longest, etc and once I decided that it was ok if I wasn’t the top of my class or had the best PhD I allowed myself to take breaks and not put myself in that competition. I knows job prospects depend upon rank in law school but I think you should make sure you know what you want when you get done, and then plan to achieve that. If you want a position at a major law firm, you probably need to be at the top of your class. If you want a job that is not so competitive, then maybe being in the top half or third of your class is ok too, and you don’t kill yourself trying to be the top. The biggest thing I think is to recognize your limits and take breaks when you need them.

          1. Bigglesworth*

            That’s really good advice. I’ll try to take care of myself so that I don’t have a nervous breakdown. My brother-in-law has OCD, anxiety, and depression (all diagnosed) and I’ve seen how bad a nervous breakdown can be. I would love to be at the top of my class, but I realistically know that would be incredibly difficult and I’m not willing to sacrifice my mental health so I can get one or two more spots ahead in the class rankings. I really appreciate the heads up! Thank you!!!

      2. Turanga Leela*

        This is smart. My rule of thumb was that once I got home, I could do the reading for one class. That was about all I could handle, so I tried to get the rest of my reading done ahead of time. I usually had Fridays off, so I would try to use Fridays and the weekend to get a jump on the week’s reading.

    5. Turanga Leela*

      Congrats! I agree with everyone who said to spend time networking—which doesn’t just mean going to networking events. Get to know people in your class, join a student organization or two, join or organize study groups, and make friends. Get to know professors too. I knew someone who literally approached law school like a reality show and said, “I’m not here to make friends. I’m here to be the best.” That’s stupid; don’t do that. (And also, she was not the best. People who say that kind of thing rarely are.)

      Get some pro bono experience early on that you can talk about in interviews. Being a research assistant will also be good if it’s substantive work, but try to do something where you get to meet a client as well.

      Do your reading and try to get good grades. It’s not the end of the world if you don’t, but grades can open doors for you. There are a lot of resources available on how to think about law school exams, and it’s not worth going into this early. But early on, as you read cases, try to think about why each case is assigned. Can you explain in a sentence what a case said? Can you explain when it applies, when it doesn’t, and where the gray areas would be? What questions would you ask to figure out if a case applied to a given situation? I found that it didn’t help me to “brief” cases—which takes forever—but it was useful to think about the questions I just listed.

      If you want to work in international human rights law, get to know the professors who work in that area. Try to meet practitioners (like people who come to campus to give talks) to find out how they got their jobs. If you have a career office, talk to them and try to meet alumni who have the jobs you’d be interested in. International human rights can be a hard area to break into, so it’s worth it to make connections and figure out what your path might look like.

      1. Bigglesworth*

        Thank you for the advice! How would I go about doing pro bono work? Were you able to do it through your school or did you do it outside of what your school offered? I’m looking at the Supreme Court Clinic, Administrative Law Clinic, and the Mental Health Clinic at GMU. I don’t know if I’ll be able to do all of them, but I know the Mental Health Clinic would have me working directly with clients.

        I’m already talking to the career services office and they are putting me in touch with some of the law professors who teach international human rights, international law, and general human rights law in case any of them have a research assistant position open. I also think that living in DC will be helpful trying to break into this field. Several of the international human rights organizations I support have their hq based in the DC area. I’m hopeful that I’ll be able to get an internship or externship at one of them.

        I already have some international experience (lived in Europe for a short time and visited Brazil for six weeks to help local non-profit organizations working with children). Most of my family is scattered around the world and I’m the first generation to be born in the USA on one side of the family.

        1. Turanga Leela*

          I started out doing pro bono work by going through established school projects, but I did an internship/pro bono thing later just by contacting an organization, saying how interested I was in their work, and offering to come in and help out on Fridays. That won’t work everywhere, but this was kind of an offbeat agency without an established volunteer program, and they interviewed me and then took me on.

  68. wearing too many hats*

    I am so grateful for this AAM community! The combination of the questions posed, Alison’s answers, and the feedback in the Comments creates this truly dynamic, supportive, and interesting resource and I’ve learned so much from reading it every day. I can unequivocally say that I am a better manager from having been exposed to the insights and information on AAM (not to mention how entertaining it can be!). The Comments are generally so helpful, supportive, and insightful and are an amazing supplement to Alison’s fantastic advice. I am very grateful for all of you and the time you take to share your insights and experiences to help one another!

    1. KR*

      Back when I managed people, I too found that AAM made me a better manager. It also taught me so much about workplace norms, how I may be coming across to different people I worked with, and how different workplaces and industries operate (coming from a municipal government environment, these insights were very useful)! I agree with you and I’M GRATEFUL FOR YOU TOO!(:

    2. ..Kat..*

      I am not a manager, but I am a better coworker/person because of AAM. I am learning how to deal with conflict in a constructive way that improves relationships. Grew up in a family that took the fun out of dysfunctional, so I did not get these skills growing up.

  69. Amber Rose*

    I’m in this weird situation where my coworkers are pretty vocal about liking me and appreciating my work, and my managers think I’m a slacker who does nothing all day or bothers them about stuff or doesn’t show. So I’m hoping my good reputation with my coworkers will at least mean management doesn’t get rid of me. Especially since I’ve burned through all of my sick days already and I’m trying ANOTHER new medication soon that will probably make me just as ill as the others. If it does fail, then I get signed up for medical trials, and I see that turning into a giant trash fire. *sigh*

    I really, really don’t want to talk to my boss about this stuff. There is SO MUCH stigma around this kind of thing, and my illness has no symptoms only the medications do, so once that’s sorted out everything will be normal again. Isn’t it enough that my work gets done. :(

    1. KR*

      I’m sorry, that must be so difficult. Can you talk to your boss and be very vague? “I’m dealing with a tricky medical situation that I really don’t want to talk about, but I want you to know I’m very cognizant of how much work I’ve had to miss. I’m trying some different medications to deal with this, but should be back on track soon. I really appreciate your patience and support.” You could send it in a note or email so it doesn’t open up an awkward gateway to conversation.

    2. Emily*

      Yuck, that sounds like a seriously crappy situation. :( Hopefully you’ll find a working medication sooner rather than later.

      I don’t know if this would work for you or your situation, but if you do end up deciding that you should talk to your boss, maybe you could frame it as a temporary medical issue without being too specific about the details.

      1. Amber Rose*

        I’m hesitant to frame it as temporary since it’s been an issue on and off for about two years now. Basically I cycle through: I’ll give it another try -> this sucks -> I give up I don’t care how sick I get. A couple months of nothing, then my doctor and my husband start putting the pressure back on, loop back to start.

        If it was something straight forward, it would be easy to clear up. But it’s not straight forward. Each drug has had completely different but equally horrifying side effects.

        1. Chriama*

          Have you looked into FMLA protection? That would at least preserve your job and hopefully once you open up the conversation with your bosses and show the effort you’re putting in to being good at your job some of it will become more visible to them.

  70. Emily*

    I posted a couple of times recently (under a different handle) about how I was frustrated in my PhD program – felt like work was being piled on from too many different directions, didn’t feel like I was accomplishing anything of value, was dreading the upcoming field season, etc.

    Well, I talked to my advisor about my frustrations and the kind of work I’d like to be doing, and long story short, I’m switching projects and advisors to something that I hope will be a better fit in the long run.

    Part of me feels a little bad (maybe if I had worked harder/smarter/applied myself differently, I could have made my first lab work for me), and part of me feels nervous (what if the situation I’m jumping into isn’t actually better?), but most of me feels relieved and hopeful – maybe with a more experienced advisor and a project that lets me do more of the types of work that I like, the second half of my PhD will be better than the first!

    1. PoniezRUs*

      Don’t feel bad. You did not do anything wrong. Hopefully the second half is better! Sometimes you can put in your all and still not be satisfied. That is when you have to switch. Good Luck!

    2. Chaordic One*

      This sounds like you are experiencing The Sunk Cost Fallacy.

      The Misconception: You make rational decisions based on the future value of objects, investments and experiences. The Truth: Your decisions are tainted by the emotional investments you accumulate, and the more you invest in something the harder it becomes to abandon it.

      Perhaps you’ll be able to salvage and reuse some of the information you’ve previously gathered (or perhaps not), but you’re moving onto something better and more do-able.

  71. Karyn*

    Has anyone ever applied for a job that you are mostly qualified for, but you’re afraid of what will happen if you actually get the job?

    I just applied for a position with a major law firm here in my city, and I fit most of the requirements, but it would be my first time managing others in a legitimate way (other than training or delegating some work here and there). I’m afraid I’m not capable of doing it! The recruiter I’m working with is confident, and the firm seems very interested in me, but I’m worried that if I am offered and take the position that I won’t be able to actually do it, even if I’m mostly qualified on paper.

    Any advice for getting over this would be appreciated!

    1. Collie*

      Sure have! I decide it’s up to the people hiring to determine whether or not I’m qualified. The job description can often be a pretty poor representation of the actual job. If it really doesn’t work out, then you’ve learned something if nothing else.

    2. KR*

      You can do it! I don’t have a lot of first hand advice but if you’ve read Sheryl Sandberg’s Lean In, she talks about how women often go for jobs they KNOW they can do and that they may be a little overqualified for, whereas men tend to go for more reach jobs that offer more challenges or new types of work. Both end up succeeding! You have to break into management somehow and no one becomes a manager knowing completely what they’re doing at first, but you’ll learn along the way.

    3. TCO*

      This happens to me all the time! Don’t let it stop you from reaching. (If you’re not familiar with the concept of imposter syndrome, look it up–these doubts are common for even highly-talented people.)

    4. Jan Levinson*

      I just got a promotion into a position I will start in a couple of weeks.

      I’m very qualified, and my boss seems to think I will do a great job, but I’m still worried that I won’t succeed. For me, this comes from a place at being with an extremely toxic company for a year where I constantly felt like I wasn’t enough, and had no one to lean on for support. My best advice is to think about the fact that you wouldn’t have been offered the job unless a collective group of people felt like you would be successful in the role.

    5. KatiePie*

      Yes! My current job! When I got it 4 years ago it was a stretch, so I was both elated and terrified to start. I feel like I had to “fake it ’til you make it” for six months. But I must have been doing something right because they kept me around. I think the key is, have faith in yourself. You may not know everything, but you know enough/are capable enough to have been hired (kind of like Collie is saying), so the rest will come. Good luck!

    6. Not So NewReader*

      You read AAM. You will be fine.

      Nobody is great at anything their first day/week/year. You seem willing to learn and that is the number one thing you need to have.

      The last job I applied for/got and was afraid of, years later New Me said to Old Me, “WHY was I so afraid?” I worked into it and so will you. The first year FLEW by, there was so much new stuff. They kept saying I was doing great so I kept showing up.

      The way to deal with fear is to make a firm commitment to constantly learning. Decide you will learn the job and decide you will never become complacent, you will constantly strive to learn new things.

    7. Chaordic One*

      This is one of those situations where, if you get the job, you get to stretch, grow and learn new skills. It isn’t going to be smooth sailing at first and you’ll fall overboard a few times. But, you get to show that you’re smart enough to learn new things and to teach and delegate to others. Go for it!

  72. PoniezRUs*

    My boss was working from home all week during a busy time for us. He was unable to provide clear direction for certain time sensitive deliverable, things were rushed, bad communication…and I messed up.My peer checked my work and I checked his before we submitted our final product and there were still errors. He was not happy about that. I am not happy about it either and have requested we meet about it next week because I do not like to mess up.

    Part of me is angry because a lot of this could have been prevented with clearer communication from his part. He is not good at keeping up with phone and email and takes long to respond. This means a lot of what we do is with little guidance and on the fly. I like this challenge but the communication problem is driving me nuts. Aside from this week, I have struggled to get his attention. When we meet to talk about progress on projects, he does not provide much feedback which I have pointed out. Instead he holds back because he does not want to sound harsh. He takes this time to praise another guy on our team who is an all around star (go him) and his favorite. A few months ago I was not allowed to go on a department meeting hours away. It was someone above my boss’s decision to leave me out of it. That sucked. There have been a few times where my boss invites my two co workers to lunch but not me. That also sucks.

    He gives me positive feedback but this week makes me think I am missing something. Can you guys give me some guidance on how to approach this meeting next week? I want to be clear that I take full ownership of the errors I submitted. I also want to tell him how much his communication style is affecting me. Frankly, his favorites game is affecting me too. It makes me resentful and I fear being stuck here will lead me to nowhere as I try to move up in my career.

    1. LaterKate*

      So, for the meeting next week, I think you’re on the right track as far as taking ownership of your errors. Part of that is articulating how you will prevent future errors. There may be things that you can do independently to mitigate those errors, but it sounds to me like you need husband input as well. Do you need his input because its a job requirement (meaning, does everyone doing your job need his input on these things or only he hasn’t access to information that is needed) or because you aren’t up to speed/aren’t experienced enough to finish the work without his input? Either way, part of what you can say would be something like “I’m sorry for the errors in X. The reason they happened is *reasons*. My plan for preventing this nect time is Y. Also, I have been having a difficult time obtaining Z info (from you) in a timely manner. Is there a different way I should be requesting that info, or a way for me to access it without bothering you?” This approach shows that you take responsibility but also hopefully helps solve the problem of how to get his input.

      1. MommaTRex*

        LaterKate – can you explain what you mean by “husband input”? That isn’t a term I’m familiar with.
        (or maybe it was a typo?)

      2. Not So NewReader*

        OP checked the coworker’s work also. How is that husband input? It’s two coworkers checking over each other’s work. Sounds pretty normal to me. My boss checks my work and she has me check her work. It’s how we help each other.

        Additionally, OP can’t get the boss’ inputs in a timely manner, so OP check with her/his coworker.

  73. Rebecca*

    I am so grateful for my coworkers and managers this week. My Dad passed away early Sunday morning, and I was able to take 3 bereavement days and 2 PTO days so I could have the week off to help my Mom make arrangements, get things together for the viewing and funeral, meet with people, make phone calls, cancel appointments, etc etc etc. Everyone pitched in to cover my work, so I won’t have a mess when I return on Monday <3. I cannot tell you how much this means to me and my family at this time.

    I just wanted to get that out there – we still have lots to do in the coming weeks, but having this week off was just invaluable and helped to alleviate a lot of stress in a very stressful situation. THANK YOU!!

    1. Blackout*

      I’m very sorry for your loss, but I’m happy that you have such a great support system at work!

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I am so glad to hear that you were able to get support from your colleagues.

      Don’t forget to take care of yourself during this difficult time.

    3. Kristinemc*

      So sorry for your loss. And glad you have great coworkers and managers – that can really make a difference!

    4. Rebecca in Dallas*

      I’m so sorry for your loss! It is such a nice feeling when people pitch in and make sure you don’t have to worry about work in a situation like that. I’m glad you have such nice coworkers!

    5. Ramona Flowers*

      I’m so glad you’ve had support from work during such a difficult time. And I’m really sorry for your loss.

  74. BlueWolf*

    One of my coworkers told me the other day that our manager is going to discuss with her manager (our grandboss) sometime in the near future about promoting me. Our annual reviews are coming up in a couple of months, so I was hoping for a raise and/or promotion then, but the fact that my coworker told me now seems to imply it could happen even before then. I’ve only been here about six months, but everyone has been really pleased with my work. I don’t want to jump the gun and get my hopes up too much, but I can’t help thinking about it and wondering if/when it’s going to happen and how to handle it if it does happen. I’ve never worked in a large/corporate work environment before, and I don’t really know how promotions work in this company. Maybe promotions take a while to push through and my manager is just getting the ball rolling in advance of our reviews? Also, if you are offered a promotion, is there usually a salary negotiation involved?

    1. MommaTRex*

      I think promotions are handled a million different ways. It just depends on the company.

      If a promotion is involved, I think you should definitely at least ASK about salary. At my current workplace, you at least get bumped up to the bottom of the next salary band or 5% minimum. But that’s just one place! I’ll bet there’s a million different ways for handling the salary, too.

      Good luck!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I hope if you are going to be taking on more responsibility you would get recognition in your pay check for that. It could be me, but if I had only been at a company for 6 months and got a promotion, I don’t think I would try to negotiate unless the pay was totally out of whack.

  75. Leafy Greens*

    Someone in my organization posted a scathing review on Glassdoor recently (I agreed with the majority of the comments/criticisms). It was up for a few weeks then just disappeared. I heard that upper management suspected that a particular employee had written it and had her supervisor confront her about it. Unfortunately, the person confessed to having written the review and obviously ended up in very hot water. I found it appalling that the leadership of this company would waste time conducting such a witch hunt and that the person’s supervisor would agree to participate in this. Reviews are anonymous (for good reason) and employers can respond to reviews if they so choose. To me, this draconian and paranoid behavior just reflected extremely poorly on management.

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I would write a review that there was a witch hunt to bully someone into taking down a bad review, at least once that you know of personally. (There were probably more, I’m guessing.) And if you can dig up that person’s old review (maybe on archive.org), I’d quote the whole thing there. Unless you think she could get in trouble for it, despite it obviously not being her, in which case leave the quote out.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Exactly what I was thinking. That must have been some witch hunt to actually locate the reviewer. It’s actually very scary that management put that much effort in the investigation.

      2. T3k*

        Agreed, if you can get away with it, mention on that Glassdoor about the witch hunt, but try not to say anything too personal that could identify you.

  76. Andraste*

    Wanted to get some input on how I handled this and see if commenters had any recommendations. I have pre-menstrual dysphoric disorder, which is a mood disorder related to menstruation that can causes extreme mental health disruptions during parts of the menstrual cycle. I manage well with treatment and medication. Next month, I am switching medications. I last switched medications three years ago and had a few days in between as I adjusted to the medication where I was very erratic. I experience PMDD symptoms as severe depression and was pretty non-funcitonal for a few days. I may need time off as I adjust. I am an attorney in a small law firm and cannot be effective at my job if I can’t think clearly.

    This is the email I sent to my boss. Thoughts? Too much info? Not enough? I’m young and fairly new to the working world, but this illness is chronic so I need to get good at handling disclosure appropriately.

    “A few years ago I was diagnosed with a hormone disorder. I have good treatment and typically manage the disorder with medication. I have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for May 3, and at that appointment I will be switching to a different medication. Transitioning between the medications can cause some adverse side-effects. If it’s ok with you, I may need to take a few days off or have some work from home days during the transitional period depending on the severity of the side effects. I can let you know if I need time off as the need arises. Let me know if you have any questions or need more information. Thanks!”

    1. WG*

      A couple of thoughts. First, I would leave out the specifics of the condition (hormone disorder) and replace it with “chronic condition” or “health matter.” The actual condition isn’t important, the fact that you’re switching medications and may have a few days of transition that leave you unable to perform your work functions is what’s relevant.

      And do you really need to provide advance notice? It’s possible there will be no side effects and you don’t need time off. Could this be handled as taking a few days off should it become necessary, such as with the flu? We don’t always or usually have advance warning of many illnesses that prevent attendance at work. If it’s a matter of being able to line up necessary coverage should you need to be out for a few days and advance notice is beneficial, then it would be considerate to alert your boss.

      2. Andraste*

        Thanks for your comment! Point definitely noted about how to refer to the disorder. I have read on this site and others that when you have a chronic condition that can effect your work, you should disclose so that your boss can work out what kind of accommodation you need. That was my intent with the message. Because we are a law firm we work with a lot of deadlines, so my thinking was I may be out for a few days around the transition, so lets keep that in mind when we are looking at what our response dates are on particular motions and make sure everything is getting done ahead of time if possible, and that I might not be around for emergencies or any short term things that come up. We are a VERY small office (3 attorneys including me). I’m the most junior so I get hit with a lot of the last minute grunt work.

      3. Damn it, Hardison!*

        Agree with WG. I had a similar situation last fall. I told my manager that I was changing medications for a chronic condition and that I might experience some initial side effects which would require me to stay home for a couple of days. I think I told her the Thursday before I began taking the medication, which I had timed for a 3 day weekend. I was fortunate in that the start was flexible and that the side effects both came on and stopped quickly so I only missed a day in the office.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I know you already sent the email, but in your place, I probably would have discussed this face to face. It allows the boss to express sympathy and ask questions. There may not be a need for formality, and you can talk to the boss about how to handle any necessary days off. I don’t think email is bad– especially for attorneys, get it all in writing!– but a conversation might have benefited you both.

  77. Namelesscommentator*

    After nearly ten months of on and off job searching for entry level (ish) positions clear across the country, this week I got two offers!

    Many thanks to the advice received here in both the letters and comment section!

  78. Death Rides a Pale Volvo*

    I’m moving to Oregon, y’all! I got a new job!

    I’m really excited about the new possibilities for my career–I’m going to be the Director of Media Relations at a larger college than I am now. The team is pretty great, I dig my new boss, and the faculty are really impressive! WHOOOO!

    Next up: getting the husband a job. He’s currently working as the Director of Technology at the same small college in VT. He wants to work at a nonprofit or a school–any leads?

    I’m happy & thrilled & nervous & in packing hell.

    2. SQL Coder Cat*

      Congrats! Where in Oregon are you moving to? I work for a medium sized university in Portland, and I love it here!

      1. Death Rides a Pale Volvo*

        I am going to be working in McMinnville and living in Salem! We’re at a disadvantage in that we have no idea where Husband will be working, and also trying to find a place from so far away, but I’ve been told that Salem is very nice. I’m so excited!

    3. Stelmselms*

      I’ve been in Oregon for 18 years and I love it!. I think it depends on which town you’ll be in as they vary wildly by population, number of employers, etc. If your husband wants to stay at a university, definitely check the job listings on their web sites – all open positions are always listed there and are pretty transparent about salary ranges. Besides the major universities, there are several smaller (some private) colleges around Salem and Portland. If you end up in the Portland area, working for a non-profit should pay well, but I don’t know of any non-profits in my town (where one of the major universities is located) that are big enough to have a Director of Technology on their staff.

    4. Die Forelle*

      For school jobs, independent schools in the PNW post listings on the website of the Northwest Association of Independent schools at nwais dot org. There’s a job-seekers link at the top of the homepage.

  79. The Tin Man*

    Good news!

    The past two Fridays I asked questions about my temp-to-perm job…I got a permanent offer this week! At a 42% raise in salary PLUS good benefits (6% match on 6% 401k contribution? Yes, please)! They are honoring my start date as a temp too and not prorating my vacation for this year so I get 3 weeks to use through the end of this year!

    The only thing that I feel knotted about is that I didn’t even try to negotiate on salary. The offer was a full 15% higher than what I was expecting/hoping for. It seemed fair but I still have the nagging feeling that I left something on the table. I like and respect HR and my boss though and really, the number seems fair. I’ll just have to continue to kill it, demonstrate my value, and get a great raise!

    1. Natalie*

      You’re fine, stop worrying about it! It sounds like it was a very good offer, who cares if it’s 99 compared to a hypothetical 100?

    2. Kvothe*

      No need to negotiate when they come in higher than what you asked for! They clearly already value you and are showing it in terms of pay and benefits!

    3. CAA*

      Wow, that is awesome! I’m so glad you got more than you expected (I was the one who responded that a raise was not a given). If you feel the offer was fair, then don’t feel bad about not negotiating. You can always negotiate your next raise.

  80. Stephern*

    How do you feel when a coworker comments on your appearance? I’m referring to clothes/hair/etc and not about the person’s body.

    Personally, even if it’s positive, I don’t want the attention. I hate it when someone says something (nice shoes) and literally everybody in the vicinity also looks over at what they’re talking about. There have been several occasions when someone will say they like the color that I’m wearing or my blouse; thing is, they’ve said the same thing the last 3 times I’ve worn it. I’m not upset or offended or anything, but the more I think about it, the more I realize I would prefer to do without these comments.

    1. Leatherwings*

      Eh, it doesn’t bother me and it’s so normal that I think you’re not going to get anywhere but frustrated if you let it get to you.

    2. Jan Levinson*

      I’m not a huge fan of it, either.

      In particular, we have a customer who comes in periodically, and always comments on my appearance. It’s really the way he says it, though, that bothers me. Instead of saying “I like your blouse”, he will say “that blouse looks good on you”, which I find to be super creepy.

    3. Rincat*

      I feel the same way, I don’t typically like comments on my appearance but especially not at work. The only time I’m okay with them are if I solicit the comments – like asking a close coworker if my outfit is okay for a presentation or something. My former boss would make a point to compliment people – men and women – on random things and it was SO AWKWARD. I think he thought he was being kind and encouraging but it was really weird and not welcome. His comments were mostly harmless but sometimes bordered on inappropriate (like telling me when I was hugely pregnant how good I was looking for being so hugely pregnant – he realized that was going over the line and backpedaled and just made it worse). Other comments like “Oh you look so professional today!” just made me feel infantilized. He would also suck up to the big bosses with compliments and that was really awkward as well.

    4. Manders*

      I give and receive this kind of compliment regularly. I only comment on things that the person has obviously chosen for themselves, like a new hairstyle or a nice dress. It’s pretty standard small talk in an office where we’ve exhausted all possible conversations about the weather.

      I do like receiving these kinds of comments. The problem for me is when people don’t quite get the social convention and start commenting on things I didn’t choose, like “You’ve got great skin” or “I wish I had your hair.”

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Yes, it’s really a kind of small talk. “Hey, those are really great shoes!” is a good way to get to know your co-workers better. They can take the comment as-is, or they can talk about where they got the shoes, why they like them, how important comfort is to them…it’s a little comment that can be a gateway into a friendly conversation.

    5. MMMMMmmmmK*

      I’m very much into fashion, so I notice when someone in my small office is wearing something new. I regularly say something like, “Oh new dress? What a great color,” and if they seem interested in talking about it, I’ll ask where they got it and say I want to get a similar style. If they don’t seem interested, I switch to a work convo.

      My main thing is to be clear if you don’t like someone commenting. It’s likley impossible in a large office to prevent it entirely, but if you have a small office or a big office with one particular person who makes those comments, I supposed I’d specifically say to them that you’re not overly interested in talking about clothes or shoes or hair.

    6. FN2187*

      I do not mind comments like, “I love that dress!” or “nice shoes!”

      However.

      I have very curly hair. When people say things like, “ohmygosh your hair is amazing and I love it and I want it it’s so great SQUEE” I get rather uncomfortable. I tend to just shut down that sort of talk with a neural look, and a redirection to the topic at hand. One morning, a client walked in and started blathering on for a long, long time about my hair while I was trying to gather documents for her. Then, she reached out and tried to pet my hair. I don’t even remember what I said, I was so aghast and surprised. Just…don’t pet other people. I feel like that is a fairly basic thing.

      1. MommaTRex*

        I have recently heard about people who want to touch someone else’s hair. My jaw dropped. How do people NOT know that this is crossing the line? So weird.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        Oh no. No touching. That’s beyond rude.

        There’s a worker at my local grocery who has Merida hair–it’s thick, long, bright red, and curly, absolutely some of the most beautiful hair I’ve ever seen. She even looks like the girl who plays Merida in Once Upon a Time. I said ONE TIME that I liked her hair, and then not again after that. And no way would I ever try to touch it.

      3. Student*

        Had a co-worker in grad school who would do this, both at work and in class. I had to eventually scream at him in public to get him to stop touching me. He did hair petting along with other not-welcome-but-not-recognized-harassment touches, like the arm grab, the “friendly arm punch”, the shoulder lean. I am sure the other people who saw me scream at him for a casual but unwelcome touch thought I was nuts, but the other women he’d done this to thought I was great. Another colleague described to me him petting some other woman’s hair in class while sitting behind her, and the woman trying to quietly resolve it by scooting further and further forward in her chair away from him, to no avail.

        Only reason I didn’t try to get him fired is because right after he tried to pet me for the first time at work, and before I could bring it to the boss, my boss gave us all this long lecture about how we need to be more tolerant of each other’s quirks – by going into a story about how Boss had once worked with somebody who would follow him into the bathroom and bother him about work stuff while he was peeing and go through his work mail, and how he put up with that for the sake of getting work done, so we should expect to make similar sacrifices. After that team-building speech, I put in for a transfer instead to get away from hair-petter, boundriless boss, and all the other wonderful “quirks” of that team.

    7. Alex*

      I tend to think it is fine, even though I sometimes get comments like “Wow, you look nice today!” with the tone of “Usually, you look like crap!” Lol.

      Someone even once said to me, “Your outfit is so nice I didn’t realize it was you from the back.”

      ……ok

      Sometimes I do get lazy with my fashion statements and go for loose-fitting jeans and an old sweater. Other days I have time to/feel like sprucing up a bit. So I guess the range of my fashion makes people notice. There is no dress code in my office and most people dress very casually, but some people always look put together.

    8. INFJ*

      I couldn’t agree more. I don’t compliment coworkers on their clothes because I feel like (we’re mostly women) we shouldn’t be calling attention to each others’ appearance. We’re not there to be fashionable. We’re not there to be beautiful. We’re there do to Jobs.

      That being said, I don’t think anyone is “wrong” for doing this, and I understand it can be a way to make polite conversation, but it’s just not for me.

      As for what you can do, just say “thank you” and change the subject, and move on.

    9. Lemon Zinger*

      One-off comments are flattering. Excessive comments about the same pieces of clothing are weird. One of my colleagues continually talked about what I was wearing so I stopped responding, or started saying things like “oh I’ve worn this plenty of times before.” She stopped!

    10. FiveWheels*

      Doesn’t bother me at all. I wear a well-tailored suit to look good (ie professional, not “pretty”) so it’s fine by me if someone notices.

    11. LaterKate*

      I am fine with compliments on clothings, shoes, makeup, and the like. But I Hate! Hate! Hate! body-based compliments. I have recently lost a great deal of weight, and it gets commented on all the time. I am mostly ok with comments like “oh, you look great!” or people who want to know what over done to lose the weight (spoiler alert: eat right, cut calories, exercise) but I often get people inquiring about how much weight I’ve lost. “How much weight have you lost?” “Oh, ha ha (awkward laugh) just focusing on being healthy.” “But how many pounds? It must be a lot. 50? More?” And on and on it goes. I try to quickly change the subject because I find it so uncomfortable.

      1. LaterKate*

        That was supposed to say “what I’ve done to lose the weight”. And the spoiler alert part was just what I have specifically done to lose weight. Upon rereading, it kinda sounded like I was implying that losing weight is easy and that if you just do those things it will happen. I know that it’s not that simple for everyone, and of course those things aren’t easy to do either.

        1. esra (also a Canadian)*

          I had a big bout of weight loss after a Crohn’s flare. Those who wouldn’t let it drop got a graphic description of the process.

          Of course, there are the people who just never get it and sigh and wistfully say: “Wow. I wish I had Crohn’s.”

    12. SQL Coder Cat*

      It really depends on the context. I dye my hair wild colors (currently I’ve got black/turquoise/Barbie box pink) and change it up every month or two. I work somewhere this is completely okay but still unusual, so I get a lot of compliments whenever I change the colors up. (“Love the pink and turquoise, Cat!”) That’s a major (and obviously voluntary) change, so it doesn’t bother me at all. If people were regularly commenting on my clothes or shoes, that would get to me. It sounds like you might be in an open office (“everybody in the vicinity also looks over”)? That can lead to a lot of additional frustration- sure, each coworker only makes one comment a month, but with everyone included it’s happening several times a week, and involving other people every time. If that’s the case, I might try telling the worst offenders something along the lines of “I don’t know if you realize it, but when you compliment my outfit it really leads to a lot of distractions in the office with everyone looking over. Can you please stop?” Others can probably improve my wording. Good luck!

    13. Nic*

      I tend to give this type of compliment somewhat often, though I do pay attention to not comment on the same thing multiple times and to compliment the item, not say “it looks good on you” because that can be creepy. I appreciate you posting this, because in general I’ve only had positive or neutral responses. It’s good to know that some of those neutrals may have been hidden negatives.

      I started doing compliments as a way to try to raise myself out of depression. I’d focus on two things: giving a genuine compliment and a genuine thank you daily. It helped me to get out of my funk, start talking to people, and try to raise the happiness of those around me.

  81. Anons*

    Not looking for advice, just a vent. I’ve been in my current job for about a year. Things have been great until recently. This week, demoralizing management by mass email. Staff apparently not trusted to manage their time. I am disappoint.

  82. Ryan Porter*

    In a cover letter I recently sent off, I mentioned two people at the company. One was a person I met at a networking event who told me about the position and the other was the CEO who I saw give a recent presentation. I realized 5 minutes after I sent off the cover letter that I wrote the CEO’s name wrong. I gave him the same last name as the contact! I pounded my head with my fists and figured I wouldn’t get a call because it was pretty careless mistake. But I did get a call for a phone interview after all, which will happen this Monday.

    Should I somehow acknowledge my mistake or pretend it didn’t happen? If I do mention it, what’s the best way to do it?

    1. Collie*

      I don’t know that you need to straight-out acknowledge it. If it comes up naturally, you can just say, “I really enjoyed Holly Cochran’s presentation on brown rice sculptures.” This shows you know the correct name without overly highlighting your mistake.

    2. Jan Levinson*

      I wouldn’t bring it up unless specifically asked about it.

      They didn’t care enough about the error to not give you an interview, so I don’t think it’s worth bringing up. Heck, they may have not even noticed the error. Also, the person(s) interviewing you may not even be people that read your cover letter, and therefore not even know about the mistake.

  83. Anon42*

    Been waiting for this! This is mainly venting but this week it was my job to collect money from the big bosses for a wedding gift for a colleague. One of them couldn’t get here in time so I just put in for her (she’ll pay me back). Another one told me he couldn’t afford it ($10) because his payday was still two days away and he needed someone to loan it to him. Then he went on to complain that he’s not paid enough not often enough.
    Seriously!!!

  84. Anon here*

    My boss won’t come right out and discuss things with me- instead she’ll be on the phone or talk to someone and loudly talk about the issue. If she’s upset, I get to hear her bashing me to others. It’s very junior high. I’ve been ignoring it, but it’s really upsetting. How do I address this professionally?

    1. Anon Anon*

      I’m interested in this answer as well. I have worked for a very passive aggressive boss in the past, and I was never sure how to handle that situation. I asked for that person to be direct with me, but they never were.

    2. Amber Rose*

      I don’t know that there is one. You can call it out in the moment once the phone call ends, “Hi, I happened to hear some things just now that suggest you aren’t happy with my work, can we talk about what I could be doing differently?” And see what happens.

      But my experience with managers like that is they just cry or shrug you off or play innocent or get mad and nothing changes. Not that you shouldn’t try, but when you have a boss stuck in high school, it’s tough to get them unstuck.

    3. Squeeble*

      Wow, that’s awful. I have often found that being polite but direct with someone who’s passive aggressive is really effective. The important thing is to remain as professional as possible–frame it as you couldn’t help but overhear her comments, and you’re eager to do better at your work and would appreciate feedback. Avoid seeming accusatory or like you want to escalate the situation.

      If nothing else, she may at least stop doing this in earshot of you.

    4. Hunger Games Summer*

      You can also try the opposite and pretend you are not hearing anything, make them tell you stuff directly with the follow up question asking what they mean by something.

    5. Pwyll*

      This is one thing that I think you can address head on. I would setup a time to speak with her privately and say, “I don’t know if you’re aware, but sometimes we can hear you through the walls when you’re on the phone. Yesterday I happened to overhear you discussing my project, and I was surprised to hear you were unhappy with xyz, as we hadn’t discussed that previously. Can we discuss your expectations on this project? I certainly want to make sure I’m on track with the deliverables.” And if she says something like ‘no, everything is fine’, you can follow up with “I just want to make sure we have open communication, because I can’t correct errors or change aspects of the project if I’m not aware of the issues. Can you please keep me in the loop?”

      Throughout, you want to sound tone-neutral: you’re not there to talk about her bashing you to others, you’re there to ensure your projects are being completed correctly. Addressing it in this way may be enough to correct her behavior. If not, it tells you enough about your manager to know it’s time to start looking once you’ve been there long enough.

  85. ann perkins*

    Any advice for dealing with a coworker who is a meeting hog? We have a bi-weekly meeting where we can submit topics to discuss. The meetings are scheduled for one hour. He typically takes 40+ minutes of the hour and no one will shut him down. He could easily reign it in, but he goes into such detail that doesn’t matter and we’re all stuck then rushing through our topics once he is finally done. This past week I was so close to interrupting him and saying something like, “we still have other topics to get to, can you please wrap up?” I don’t want to come across as rude but he is also being disrespectful of 1) our time and 2) others who also have topics.

    1. TCO*

      Who sets up the agenda? Could you put his topics at the end? Otherwise, maybe get your team on board about having a big-picture conversation about how you run meetings (preferably outside of this standing meeting). Set some ground rules about time limits for discussion topics, order of discussion, running over time, etc. and then engage the group in enforcing them together.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      When it’s time to submit topics, ask if you can discuss how time is allotted so that everyone can have a chance to speak. Take an hour divide it into how many people attend and say for each person to speak, no one can go over x minutes or someone else will have to forgo their turn.

    3. OhBehave*

      Meetings are annoying enough without those who commandeer the majority of the time allotted.

      I agree with TCO. If you can, suggest that each person gets 15 minutes (if there are 4 topics to discuss), and make it clear that this is a firm time. When the meeting starts, remind everyone of the time allotted to them. He should be scheduled last.

      If this is a meeting of peers, you certainly have the right to speak up and ask him to keep his comments brief. The first time you address this with him, it should be done privately, after the meeting though. Don’t call him out in front of others. Of course, if he keeps up with his lectures, certainly remind him of the time constraints at that moment. “Bob, we have other topics to address and we only have x minutes left. Please wrap it up. If there is information you think we need to know, please address that in an email to all concerned.”

      If there is a manager present, I am really surprised they haven’t nipped this in the bud. I have often had to suggest that if someone has questions not directly related to the subject at hand, that they be addressed one on one later. If it doesn’t concern the whole group, meet separately.

  86. Tau*

    I had a second Skype interview this week for a job, and it sounds fantastic! SUPER cool project, best practice methodology which is the #1 thing I want right now, I liked both the people I talked with, and the bottom of their posted salary range is the top of mine! They seemed pretty impressed by me as well, and I have some experience in the field that sounds like it’d be a definite plus, so fingers crossed…

    My main worry right now is work-life balance. It is really really really important to me to have overtime be a rare thing, and I’m worried they might be expecting long hours. I’m worried that with the amount of things that look amazing about this job I’ll convince myself to go for it anyway if there are warning signs on that front, which wouldn’t be good. Also, I don’t have “acceptable” reasons like kids for wanting to stick to a 40-hour week (well, part of it is due to a disability, but I’m not planning to disclose) so I’m already wracking my brains for a diplomatic, not-sounding-like-I’m-lazy way of asking about that in the first place. Tips, anyone?

    1. Anon Anon*

      I think you can just say that work life balance is really important to you (the reasons why are not relevant to them), and so you want to be sure that you understand the work load expectations. A lot of people don’t want their job to be their life, and I think a lot of employers are recognizing it’s not good for them if their employees don’t have a life outside of their work.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yes. please do not help them to believe that people with kids value time off more than people without kids. No one has to have kids in order to value their time away from work. I totally agree, do not state your reason for wanting a work/life balance. You want it and that is enough right there.

  87. a Rock & a Hard Place*

    I’m the Exec Sec at a small business. The industry is incredibly stressful and I also have two alcoholic bosses. (They are partners, 50/50 and I report to both of them.) Between the two of them, they may only get 4 hours of work done each day sober. I try to help as best as I can, especially with things that have deadlines: i.e. invoices, vendor bills. I also try my very best to act as a buffer between them and the employees (there are 25 of us total) and listen to complaints and employee personal issues (I handle payroll and deal with a lot of hiring/ HR stuff too).

    While I really don’t love dealing with their alcoholism, I am not here to judge. I’m here to do a job. The problem (and why I’m reaching out on here) is that lately, I’m getting slaughtered by them when they are drunk. I basically act as the emotional punching bag for them. Any issues they have, insecurities they are dealing with, and the stress they handle per the industry gets thrown at me. I go home in tears a lot because it messes with my head and I feel like maybe they’re right… like maybe I’m the problem. Yet, when they’re sober they give me praises and tell me I’m invaluable.

    What should I do? I hate confrontation. I also haven’t dealt with many alcoholics in my personal life so I’m not sure how to deal with their behaviors. I get paid very well and also don’t necessarily want to look for another job. Help?

    1. paul*

      They won’t change unless they sober up. And you can’t make them do that. It’s a brutal answer but a true one.

    2. TCO*

      I wonder if Al-Anon or other resources for friends/family of alcoholics might help you. I’m sorry you’re experiencing this, but your bosses aren’t likely to change.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        They might change, but nothing you can say to them will do it. Maybe their spouses leaving them or children breaking ties or the business failing might do it, but Rock doesn’t have the leverage. And addressing it as a personal issue won’t help, because they fully mean their sober praise for her. But they turn into different people when they’re drunk, and the cruelty is compulsive.

        1. OhBehave*

          I don’t think TCO is expecting Rock to counsel them or try to get them to meetings. Rather, learn more about the disease and how best to cope with this kind of behavior is a good suggestion.

    3. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      Honestly, there’s really nothing you can do. I grew up with an alcoholic in the house. Like the people you’re describing, he was a functional alcoholic whose drinking affected his personal relationships more than his ability to run a business successfully, so it took a while for him to realize enough consequences to realize he needed to get sober. And he did, and it stuck, and he’s still doing really well and saved his marriage and his relationship with his son.

      What you do have to realize, though, is that you’re not – NOT – the problem. My dad once started a raging, screaming fight with my mom over which bowls we’d be using for chili. It’s bonkers. Drunks want to find the thing that’ll cut deep, and then they hack and slash with it to find your weak point, because fundamentally they’re miserable and they can’t handle their emotions and they want you to feel their pain too.

      I don’t know what to tell you to do. My strategy was to remove myself from the situation, so is there a way you can just peace out in the middle of a tantrum?

    4. Natalie*

      I’m really sorry, but you have to leave. It’s foolish to count on this getting better, and no matter how much you think you can handle it their behavior *will* have negative affects on you.

      1. Natalie*

        ETA: it’s already having negative affects on you: “I go home in tears a lot because it messes with my head and I feel like maybe they’re right… like maybe I’m the problem.”

        Get out, as quickly as you can. And in the meantime get some support from Al-Anon or a therapist or something else.

    5. Panda Bandit*

      You have to get out of there. They are the problem and they are not going to change. There is nothing you can say or do to make this better.

      This workplace is toxic and it’s affecting you in a very negative way. I recommend talking to a therapist, because what your bosses are doing sounds like emotional abuse or close enough to it. Don’t let the terrible ideas from your terrible bosses take root inside your head.

      1. RVA Cat*

        Seconded. I would also say try to remove yourself from their abuse as much as possible. This probably means you need to stop shielding the other employees from their behavior. If say you walk away from a tantrum, that might mean they follow you through the office screaming and making a scene. Sorry but if I was one of your co-workers, I would want to know how bad things are, so I can plan an exit strategy accordingly.

        Remember that YOU are not the problem – their addiction is.

    6. PollyQ*

      I basically act as the emotional punching bag for them. Any issues they have, insecurities they are dealing with, and the stress they handle per the industry gets thrown at me. I go home in tears a lot because it messes with my head and I feel like maybe they’re right… like maybe I’m the problem. Yet, when they’re sober they give me praises and tell me I’m invaluable.

      This sounds more like an abusive relationship than a job. Nobody likes to job-hunt, but if you’re in the US, the unemployment rate is a its lowest point in years, and I guarantee you can find something better. Leave as soon as you can, before the abuse wrecks your self-esteem.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      I, too, grew up in an alcoholic home. There is only one response to this and that is to leave.

      If you genuinely cannot figure out how this is NOT your fault, please seek help from somewhere.

    8. ..Kat..*

      I recommend you start looking for a new job. In the meantime, tell your bosses both what is unacceptable and what behaviors you expect going forward. When they deviate from acceptable behavior, hold up your hand in a stop sign and say “this behavior is not tolerated. I will not interact with you until you exhibit X acceptable behavior.” If they want to be drunks, okay. But they have to exhibit Y acceptable behavior. Even drunks tend to know when they have crossed the line. They just don’t want to accept it. If you push back, hopefully your job will get better. You might even be able to get a raise. Definitely lay out what is acceptable and what is not. The drunks I have worked with just want to maintain the status quo. They don’t want to get rid of anyone who can help them maintain it.

    9. OhBehave*

      What …Kat said!

      Know that you can’t change them. You can change your circumstances though.

      During one of those times that they are praising you, let them know how it makes you feel when they are abusive to you. Try this:
      “Thanks for the compliment. But, Joe, yesterday when you screamed at me about xyz, it made me feel completely disrespected and abused. Please stop doing that to me.” The next time they scream at you; turn around and walk off. You do not deserve to be subjected to that kind of abuse.

      There is absolutely no reason you should act as a buffer between the two drunks and the other employees. Unless you were hired to specifically act as gate-keeper.

      You state that you hate confrontation. This is the problem. You are allowing others to treat you in such a way that’s impacting your personal life. This includes the employees who come to you complaining about xyz. I do realize that the roles you play make this seem like acceptable behavior, but there is a limit. You can kindly say that you are sorry to hear of their troubles and return to your work. If these are legitimate work issues, that’s a different story.

      A major concern I have is… are these guys driving drunk? Are they driving back to work from a liquid lunch or driving home blotto? This is a major issue. They absolutely should not be driving drunk. If you know they are driving drunk, call the police.

      No one deserves this kind of treatment. That includes you!

  88. Bork*

    Have you ever seen a “blacklisted” coworker ever get themselves off the list? How many years passed to get to that point? (Luckily this isn’t about me!) On a damage scale of 1-10, I’d say this team of people created a level 6 of a mess.

    Background if you want:
    At the Dept of Teapots there are auditors, analysts, and educators. Sally and I were both educators for several years. The majority of people move to an auditor position if it becomes available, which is what Sally did. I moved to the analyst department.

    Long story short, Sally’s team of auditors (including her manager Bob) got a in a huge clusterf almost 2 years ago. There was so much fighting and jealously amongst her team and to make matters worse Bob didn’t handle the situation.

    Earlier this week Sally told me that Bob wanted to relieve himself of manager duties and just have another position created for him that had XYZ. The DoT told him sure…and created a position that did XABC. Bob refused. Bob was also not selected as Head Auditor either (all senior auditors apply, so competition was stiff anyway). Sally told me that she heard that Bob will never be promoted again. Sally then asked me if I knew what the DoT thought of her team (“Don’t worry, I won’t be offended or hurt”). So…silly me…I told her what I knew. Basically: Audit Team A is a bunch of whiny, trouble making, poor workers. Currently, there is a position open with Team B and Mary (also from team A) wants to transfer. Team B is all buddy buddy with Mary, but they don’t want to work with her professionally. The position will likely go to an educator or an outside source.

    Sally got mad and demanded to know who told me this multiple times. I avoided the question every time, but after we talked I thought about Team A’s future with DoT. Sally complained that there wasn’t much room for growth as an auditor and then I got irritated and wanted to tell her that her team should have acted like adults in the first place. You all did irreparable damage to yourselves. I think 5…10…15 years down the line and I still can’t imagine Team A people recovering.

    1. MuseumChick*

      In my experience, once you have gotten to the point of being blacklisted…there is really no coming back.

      1. Aveline*

        My father used to say that a positive impression is fragile, but a negative one is impenetrable.

        1. MuseumChick*

          It’s really true. Once you have a bad rep, it’s nearly impossible to come back from. I’ve seen it first hand.

          OP, I think Sally’s reaction says it all. She’s not looking for ways to improve. She is just defensive.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Yeah, DoT is done here.

      It’s never good to hear that an opening has been decided on before it’s offered internally. I had that all the time at a company I worked for. Matter of fact people would laugh at people who applied, “How come you don’t know that job is going to Sue (or only for outsiders/etc)?” The inference being that you did not have the inside scoop so you were a jerk.

      Start stepping back from this. Team A enjoys fighting with each other. Sally is used to an argumentative environment, don’t get drawn in. If you can’t stay off the topic, then maybe spend less time talking to Sally. Think of it like stepping in quicksand and step back from all this.

  89. Master Bean Counter*

    I have an interesting situation. I’m at a company that has grown by leaps and bounds over the last few years. Growth has greatly outpaced policy and procedures. We’ve had two key people leave in my department. Two people that have managed to keep things running, but not in the best way. How do I know this? I keep looking and analyzing what they’ve done, so I can carry on with it into the future.

    But I keep mentally going, WTF? and just banging my head against my desk. Everything I’ve touched as been illogical and outdated. I get into figuring out the how and why we do things and find they may have worked 3 years ago, but they aren’t working now. I’ve changed every process I’ve touched. While this looks good for me I can’t help be feel bad for the departed coworkers. It starting to look really bad on one of them. And this coworker is still on contract helping out. I feel guilty.
    Should I feel guilty? The guy worked hard and put in 60+ hours a week when he was here. He helped me out when I first started.

    1. CM*

      No need to feel guilty, but I do think you need to be careful never to badmouth the departed coworkers. If you say things like, “We’ve grown since this process was put in place, so New Process makes more sense now,” it will be obvious to anyone paying attention that Old Process never made sense. Those who know it was the responsibility of the departed coworkers may take note of that, but that’s not on you.

      1. Master Bean Counter*

        That is exactly the way I’ve been doing it. This process made sense X years ago, but this new way makes more sense going forward.

        1. RVA Cat*

          It sounds like he was working so hard because his method was inefficient. That’s easy to do when you’re just too busy to step back and change.

    2. LCL*

      I was just talking about an aspect of this with someone. Basically, if someone has been with our company for a long time, they were self taught on how to use computer systems, starting from the days of wordperfect and visual basic. They changed their processes as software changed, to whatever kept things running. I think the key word in your post is outdated. And then once you learn the old way, there is never time to learn the new way.

  90. Ann O'Nemity*

    I’m a busy manager and I was recently offered a part-time administration assistant. This sounds great but I’m struggling to think of ways to utilize it. I’ve never had an assistant before so it’s hard to imagine what this person would really be doing. I’ve read several online articles about delegating to an assistant but none seem to apply very well. I don’t need copies or transcription. I guess I could delegate email or calendaring (but this seems weird to me as I’ve always done my own). What else?

    2. Manders*

      In my experience, just having a layer of contact between a busy manager and everyone who calls or walks in the door is useful. Would it be helpful if you could ask people to go through your administrative assistant instead of wandering into your office with questions? Are there any tasks that require a lot of time on your end, but no higher-level decision-making? If you’re busy enough, just having someone who can keep your to-do list in order and screen your calls might be a big help.

    3. Squeeble*

      If you have a company credit card, maybe they could manage your expense reports? Or maintain files, help with event planning logistics…etc.

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Scheduling meetings (especially if there are multiple people involved), booking travel, organizing and submitting your expense reports, invoice reconciliation — those are the first things that pop in my mind.

    5. Jillociraptor*

      I’ve been an admin in the past (and do a little of that work now). One of the most useful ways my bosses have utilized me is to do the “start up” stuff that made their work time-consuming. So, I might take a first stab at writing correspondence or a meeting agenda, or pull together all of the data points for a memo or report. All that stuff that you’d really only use about 15 minutes of time to figure out, but that’s so much easier once they’re something started.

      It can also be helpful to delegate being in charge of knowing certain things. Birthdays was a big one for one of my bosses, but any policies, practices, or facts can be useful. Similar to that, I’m often asked to remember to re-surface certain things. I’m not project managing the task or anything, it’s just my job to remind my boss in two weeks to follow up on this or that, or to ping her a certain number of days before a meeting she owns to remind her to start the agenda (and probably remind her of the things she mentioned offhandledly since the last meeting to put on the agenda!)

      If there are systems you’ve always wanted to put in place or pain points that keep resurfacing but you don’t know the answer to them, that’s a great thing to have an admin do. We had a problem where we couldn’t quickly get items up the chain of command to review because the meeting schedule was inconsistent. So, I made a calendar of all upcoming meetings so I could help manage up recommendations for the review schedule (i.e. alerting her that if we wanted to meet X deadline, we probably needed a draft by Y date to get through the various meetings for review).

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        This is so helpful! And these are the kinds of things I would find useful. I’m not always great at remembering or keeping track of details, yet I’m involved a lot of different projects and initiatives at the same time.

        I was struggling to figure out how the traditional role of the admin assistant would be helpful. We’re so paperless these days (so no copying, filing, or transcribing needed) and I’m not really flooded with calls or visitors.

        1. Jillociraptor*

          Oh good! I’m really glad it was helpful. In my admin work, doing the copying, filing, scheduling, was not super fulfilling, but when I had the opportunity to feel like an extension of my boss’s brain, it really made me feel like I was an important part of the work, so I suspect that if you’re able to make use of some of these skills, your admin will enjoy it a lot too. Hope it goes well!

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Technically, my job is not admin but I do assist my boss in numerous ways. Line up several things that you know you want your admin to help with. Then ask for her inputs. Her job will grow as you go along. I have done all kinds of stuff for my boss that is not in the job description, but I just went day by day observing what types of needs came up.

        For the moment you could say that part of her job is helping you figure out what you can pass on to her to handle for you. I now have more work than I will ever finish.

  91. Aveline*

    Sharing an story that popped into my head because of the first letter writer in the post (drunk boss winning epileptic employee to drive):

    My father told me when he was a kid there was a local farmer who would ride his horse in to town to the tavern nightly. The farmer would get totally blackout drunk. Everyone, including the county sheriff, just helped put the farmer back on the horse. The horse knew the routine. He would take the farmer home and dump him in the hay in the barn then go over to his own stall and wait for someone to take care of him the next morning.

    My father always used to say that that was a horse that was better to his owner than the owner deserved.

  92. INFJ*

    Any advice on how to avoid gut-reaction anger when asked to do admin-like duties when I’m not an admin?

    Some background: I am a “teapot inspector” (skilled position) in a department of mostly “teapot makers” (higher skilled position), but also in the department are a few other inspectors (like me), a coordinator, and department management.

    Situation 1: The entire department is in a meeting together celebrating a major event for one of our members with cake and the head of the department says, “INFJ, or Jane (other teapot inspector), will one of you cut the cake?” And what went through my brain was, “hell no! Why does a teapot inspector have to cut the cake? Are the teapot makers too good for that?” Luckily, Jane jumped right up and offered to do it. I believe I kept a neutral look on my face, but I felt SO offended in the moment and was really surprised by the strength of my reaction.

    Situation 2: I have been helping a teapot maker put together a large, high-profile teapot. She set up a meeting with contributing members in other departments, which I was invited to. We’re all in the conference room waiting for the meeting to start when she walks in late and asks, “INFJ, will you call in to the meeting and set up the screen sharing?” Now, the logical person in me knows she was probably asking because I was sitting closest to the dialpad, but my first gut-reaction was to be offended that she was treating me like an admin. My brain went, “it’s YOUR meeting, YOU do it!” Like, she wouldn’t have asked one of the teapot engineers to do that! Naturally, I politely agreed to call in and just did it, but inside I was fuming!

    I don’t know where these reactions are coming from! I do genuinely feel that I, and other inspectors, are generally well-treated and respected in my department. Any recommendations for re-framing my thoughts to prevent these reactions in the future?

    1. Temperance*

      I honestly don’t know that you have to reframe your thoughts, because you aren’t an admin and you shouldn’t be tasked with admin duties.

      Here’s a question for you: does she ask the other inspectors to do secretarial work? Are you the only woman?

      1. Emily*

        Yes, that was going to be my question as well. I know that if I were in this situation and perceived it to be an issue of gendered treatment, I would be peeved.

    2. Ann O'Nemity*

      I realize this isn’t a popular opinion, but I think in the absence of a proper admin it makes sense for admin-level work to go to the people lowest on the totem pole. Your time *is* worth less than the higher level positions. If there’s not a designated admin position, you’ll end up doing some of those things even if you’re in a “skilled position.”

      Re: the cake thing, I’d be annoyed if I was asked to do something like that because I was a woman. But it wouldn’t bug me as much if it was because I was the least senior-person there.

      1. Temperance*

        I agree with this in theory, so long as the other people at her level are also being asked to do admin tasks.

        1. OhBehave*

          Absolutely agree with Ann.

          Going forward, don’t sit near the dialpad or cake!

          If you think this work is beneath you, it’s just your dues to pay as a junior. Would you call in an admin to cut the cake during a meeting or to set up calls? Typically it’s the person sitting nearest the ‘need’ in my meetings.

    3. Anon Anon*

      Are you more junior than the teapot makers? I’ve had many experiences where the most junior staff person does the admin tasks, whether they are an admin or not.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      I wouldn’t have classed those as admin tasks. But then when we do call-ins it’s my manager who does it.

  93. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    My cold is finally better! In time to be more productive at work and celebrate my birthday early this weekend (the actual birthday is Wednesday but I don’t have a lot of time on weekdays). I also had the awesome idea of renting a Northwoods cabin for Memorial Day weekend. There weren’t any one bedrooms, so I got a 2br for $175/night and might split cost with a friend. I just feel like I want to go out to the woods/country, especially because work is so boring and traffic is bad lately.

  94. Heck and High Water*

    Not quite sure how to open this, but here goes.

    I’m a non-union trade apprentice and have been with my company for almost a year. The company is great for the most part but my supervisor/trainer is less so. The best way I have to describe him is that he is a confidence man. He is your best friend up until the point you aren’t around to hear him. He doesn’t leave any proof of his double-talk, continually asks for ‘small’ favors, engages in passive-aggressive retaliation if you stand up to him, and attempts to mollify you by buying you a drink or gifting you some old tool he has lying around (that probably was stolen in the first place). He is good enough at this behavior that I am even now questioning if he premeditates his actions or if he’s just hardwired this way from his personality and upbringing.

    Things were fine until I discovered my time cards were being edited behind my back with small increments of time being removed to match his reported time. We are non-exempt private sector workers who are not eligible for comp time, yet he was saving any overages in his personal “time bank” for use later. Regardless, that issue was solved with office involvement, but it brought up a slew of trouble as I refused to simply lie down and let him walk all over me.

    Despite having his own supplies and tools on the job, he found it much easier to simply borrow my personal tools whenever he needed something. I wasn’t happy about it, but I decided it wasn’t a battle worth having up until he lost one of my tools and then refused to replace it. During the ensuing conflict where I demanded he return all of my personal tools and start carrying his own, he threatened to deny me use of the company supplied tools (many of which are specialized items that cost a lot of money and are rather essential to our job). Since then he has allowed me use (although very grudgingly) of some of these specialty tools save for one. Months later, he now claims that I cannot handle the tool safely and that is why I am prevented from using it, however, he is willing to train me on its proper use. A week later I am still waiting.

    The most recent issue, however, is the one that has now forced my hand. A few weeks ago my supervisor borrowed one of my personal tools (a rather common and unassuming one) without asking yet again. I confronted him at the end of the day and requested its return. As he was handing it back to me, he paused and held the tool just out of reach and said, “You know, I’m pretty sure I had a teapot tuner like this once. I even had my name written on it…” He turned it over and over in his hand before giving a resigned ‘huh’ and finally returning it.

    I made a special trip to the office that afternoon to engrave every single one of my tools. And that is when I discovered that my supervisor had indeed marked his name on my tool in a concealed location. The ink was so fresh it partially rubbed off on my thumb. I engraved this tool in an angry rage and vowed that I would not give him the satisfaction of a confrontation. Then yesterday he swiped this tool yet again. After a brief inspection of its surface he casually mentioned how he found it “interesting” that his name had been removed and that I had replaced it with mine. I played dumb and asked what the heck he was talking about, that it was my tool and his name had been nowhere on it. He then claimed that he had known his name was on the teapot tuner before handing it back to me and that he hadn’t been willing to fight over such a cheap tool; that we had probably mixed up our tools at one point and mine had gotten lost.

    I don’t know what his game is or what he is planning, but I have a feeling that he is getting ready to drop the hammer on me. I’ve been more resistant than ever to his manipulative tactics and he has grown visibly irritated by it. What I don’t know is, how do I go to our mutual boss and report this behavior when it sounds so extreme and my supervisor is so good at covering his tracks? I’ve asked to be reassigned before with no results and my confrontation over the time card fraud hurt my reputation more than his. I’m not sure our mutual boss will believe me and I’m very reluctant to go over his head. There are several other apprentices working at my company with similar stories from their time under this man and talking with the director of my independent training program has resulted in some support from the sideline. But I’m the first of my peers to put my foot down and stand up to this man.

    I should also mention that I am about two months out from moving to a new state and new job and that the original goal was to simply endure until I could escape. And yes, I have been documenting almost everything.

    Any help or advice would be appreciated.

    1. Natalie*

      I know you said your non-union, but is there any kind of organization that manages your apprenticeship?

      1. Heck and High Water*

        Yes, there is an independent training program that I am a part of which provides classroom training to supplement on-the-job training. I talked to the director of the program and he said he would think over the problem and get back to me on Monday. I don’t know how much influence they will actually have and/or if it will cost me my job in the end. Since I am moving in a few months it might be hard for my training program to find a company that will hire me on short-term.

        1. Natalie*

          Ugh. I’m sympathetic; my husband is in the trades and has had some effed up bosses like this, and little support from upper management to do anything about it.

          As far as going to the big boss, do you think the supervisor’s goal is to get you fired? If that’s the case, I’d approach your mutual boss now and try and get in front of the situation. You’re trying to keep your job for 2 more months so you can finish this damn program and leave. You’re more likely to do that if you’ve come to Big Boss first. You probably know this, but stay calm and just stick to the facts of the situation.

          If you think supervisor is “just” looking for a little ritual humiliation or similar, can you stand to play along? Just to keep him off your ass until you can get out?

          1. Heck and High Water*

            If I had to guess, I’d say that I suspect my supervisor is attempting to put me in my place. His more recent actions seem to also suggest that he is padding his excuses in preparation for a fight in the office. I don’t know if he means to strike first or if he is trying to deter me from going to the office by having an alibi for his actions on-hand.

            I’ve not be shy about going to the office in the past (admittedly for small things) and he took issue with that, telling me that I needed to “keep it in the field” because I was only making our jobs harder. So I played along and kept our disagreements among ourselves.

            Of course I was just told by another apprentice yesterday that my supervisor has been poisoning our mutual boss against me from the beginning. Something about how I was looking for a reason to get hurt on the job and claim worker’s comp. Which was and is a bunch of bull hockey. So with that knowledge, I have no reason to honor his request to “keep it in the field” as he clearly isn’t abiding by his own principles.

            The issue is I am not willing to play along. I’ve got no problem with ‘paying my dues’ as an apprentice. But I will not stand for someone trying to harm my income or my livelihood. And if it’s humiliation he’s looking for, he’s got another thing coming.

            My spouse can attest that I’m part mule. The harder you push me the more stubborn I become. Push me enough, and I start kicking.

            1. Natalie*

              The issue is I am not willing to play along. I’ve got no problem with ‘paying my dues’ as an apprentice. But I will not stand for someone trying to harm my income or my livelihood. And if it’s humiliation he’s looking for, he’s got another thing coming.

              My spouse can attest that I’m part mule. The harder you push me the more stubborn I become. Push me enough, and I start kicking.

              It’s not clear to me what the fall out will be from this – if you are fired, does that set you back in the apprenticeship, or make it difficult to get another one? If that’s the case, is your pride or stubbornness or whatever worth it? It wouldn’t be for me. And if I was your spouse I’d tell you the same thing – keep your head down and your mouth shut for 8 weeks so you don’t have ot deal with this crap again. The guy sounds like a complete and total ass, but why sacrifice a lot to prove that to him? Do you think he’s actually going to care one bit?

              Honestly, it sounds like you’re already geared up for a fight, so I’m not really sure what help you were looking for. It’s not going to be pretty, necessarily, and you’re probably going to lose, and then you’re moving. So enjoy it, I guess.

              1. Heck and High Water*

                I don’t really stand to be set back in the training program. It’s mostly financial concern at this point.

                I was primarily hoping for advice on what to say to the big boss/how to approach the meeting to achieve a more favorable outcome. But I suppose your earlier advice of “stay calm and just stick to the facts of the situation” is the most sound.

                With the most recent actions by my supervisor, I feel as if I’m being backed into a corner. So I suppose you are right. I’m gearing up for a fight. Is it partially out of pride? Yes, I will admit it is. But I’m also not willing to let my supervisor set the timing in his favor for whatever conflict might come.

                1. Natalie*

                  I think if you approach Big Boss first you have a better chance, for sure.

                  I get the pride thing and the desire to not let someone force your hand, I have some of that, too. A re-framing that’s helped me (YMMV) is reminding myself that I can also decide I won’t let someone pull me into a fight that isn’t to my advantage. If I was outnumbered at a bar, I wouldn’t let someone goad me into fighting all the regulars, right?

                  One last thought – there are more ways to fight than head on. My dad did aikido for a long time. It’s a defensive style of martial arts that is oriented around redirecting your attacker’s momentum, and then terminating the attack.

            2. Mainly lurking*

              He’s telling people you’re “looking for a reason to get hurt on the job”? Reading that gave me a chill down my spine. Given what else you have said about this guy’s willingness to sabotage you, I am genuinely concerned for your safety. Please be on your guard, and double check any safety equipment/procedures yourself for the duration of your time there.

              1. Bigglesworth*

                Hey Mainly Lurking – I’m Heck’s spouse and I just wanted to say I really appreciate you mentioning that. We’ve been brainstorming on what could potentially happen if his boss decides that he doesn’t want Heck around anymore. I didn’t even think about the physical danger. Thank you for mentioning it so he can keep himself safe.

              2. Not So NewReader*

                Brilliant, ML.

                Combined with Natalie’s last paragraph regarding more ways to fight than head on, OP, you may consider opening the conversation with the Big Boss by saying, “I am not sure but I think I have received a physical threat from Supervisor. This is probably due to some issues we have been trying to work through. Then explain the nature of the threat. “I have strong reason to believe he is telling people that I am trying toget hurt on the job. Since I know this is not the truth, because injuring myself would be of NO benefit to me, I have to wonder if the stage is being set such that I will experience an accident not of my making.” As the conversation progresses, tell the boss the particulars, that Supervisor is taking your tools and not returning them. More importantly he is denying you access to tools at work, which really renders your internship useless (or however you wish to say that, don’t exaggerate). Be sure to say that other people are seeing the same thing. Annnnd be sure to mention that you have told your school about it. (Companies do not like outsiders knowing about problems like this.)

                Tell him that you would like to safely follow your internship to it’s concussion and ask what suggestions he has to accomplish this.

                Worst case scenario: He poo-poos what you are saying and starts to indicate you should leave his office. IF this happens then say, “Okay, that is fine, I will leave. However, I wanted you to know that this conversation is on the record. I am presenting you with a formal complaint. If something does happen to me, you and I had this discussion before it happened.”

                I have used the words “formal complaint” and found those words tend to make people stop and THINK about what they are saying and how they are reacting.

                1. Heck and High Water*

                  I would say that this sounds like overkill and that I have trouble seeing him intentionally setting me up for an injury, yet I also said the same thing about him stealing from me. Others warned me of his penchant for swiping tools and I didn’t take them seriously.

                  Just this past week we were working on a platform over 10 feet high where we were supposed to be harnessed and tied off. Except we weren’t. Or rather, I wasn’t. He had us arriving earlier than the safety enforcers so they wouldn’t catch us breaking regulations. Only now in hindsight… I realize that 90% of that time it was only me taking that risk while he was on the ground handing me supplies and playing lookout. If we had been caught, he could have easily let me take the fall for breaking safety regulations and pretended he didn’t know I wasn’t harnessed up.

  95. Blue birds fly*

    I am escaping my toxic work site by retiring in a couple of months! I’m only in my mid-50s and plan to work part time. My retirement benefits are pretty good, and include my health insurance until I’m 65. I will be contracting about 15-20 hours a week with 1 company doing the same thing I do now. I’m also going to teach some profession-related classes at the local community college.
    I currently work for a government agency that ensures teapots are safe for the public. Some of the places I inspect are owned by one person. Although the owner is considered hard to get along with, we hit it off. He likes to question every decision, and will go off on tangential “what if” situations. My brother and I used to have these type of conversations, and I realized the owner wasn’t necessarily challenging me, but wants to understand, and just enjoys debating.

    He and his family are big fish in my little community. I want to approach him to suggest that he needs (me as) a quality assurance manager and trainer. I ran into him yesterday while working at a different location, and we’re going to talk next week.

    I can’t believe I asked for a meeting because I’m generally timid when discussing myself (although a great advocate for others). I’ve never done anything like this before, and I’m excited about the possibility, and scared to death of … rejection I guess. His businesses are varied and growing, and he doesn’t seem to have the time to ensure his standards are consistently met. Please help me figure out what I can say to him.

    1. CM*

      My suggestion is to see this less as a scenario where you’re asking for something and he can reject you, and more as presenting him with an opportunity that he might welcome. I’d tell him that you will be contracting part-time after retirement from government work, and identify how you can help him (for example, you’ve observed that he doesn’t have standard processes in place for handling inspections, or he currently has his people do training offsite and you can do it onsite). Also, I like to play out conversations like this in my head before they happen, and think about possible questions they could ask — for you, try imagining him saying, “Yes, that’s exactly what I need!”

    2. Bigglesworth*

      Good luck! This sounds like it could be an amazing opportunity for you! What I always tell myself when I’m nervous about self-advocating is, “What’s the worst that could happen if they say no?” Usually, it’s just that I’m disappointed, not any real negative outcomes. Keep us posted!

      1. Blue Birds Fly*

        I will. My confidence has been impacted by my supervisor. I’d been feeling that he stole my future in the profession I love after making my life hell for the past 5 years. But I’m finally realizing I have options that I’m looking forward to exploring!

  96. jamlady*

    I had to take a drug test on Wednesday, after I’ve already given notice at my current job, and while everything should be fine (I’ve never done drugs in my life but I do take a ton of medication, none of which the tech seemed interested in hearing about), HR has gone radio silent. I was supposed to receive some paperwork before COB Tuesday and she told me to reach out if I didn’t see it, so I did but there was no response. I reached out again yesterday morning but haven’t heard back. I’m kind of starting to freak out. It could be that they’re waiting for the drug test to clear before sending over the paperwork (she called me a second time Monday about the drug test, after the paperwork call, because she didn’t realize I hadn’t done that yet), but it’s weird to get no response. Maybe she had an emergency and has been out all week since we spoke. Or maybe there’s an issue with the drug test and they haven’t received the results yet because the lab is going to call me to get more info (it was a rapid urine test panel, so they should have had the results within 15 min to an hour on Wednesday). I’m not sure how these drug tests generally go and I’m not sure if I should try reaching out again today before the weekend. Grrrr

  97. Gratiana*

    I was calling around to check a new office manager’s references yesterday when I encountered something I’ve never seen before: one of the references was a social-programs coordinator for a religious organization, but as soon as I got her on the phone she said, “Oh, well, of course I can’t give you a formal reference, but…” [and then she provided the info I was looking for]. I was a bit taken aback, and said, “I’m sorry, I wouldn’t have called if I’d known you couldn’t serve as a reference—was there some reason for that?” to which she replied vaguely, “Oh, well, you know, this new litigious society we live in…”

    I’m assuming my candidate must have included her as a “former supervisor” reference without asking her, which is weird in itself, but the really bizarre thing was how she phrased it, as if the organization had a policy forbidding its staff to offer references at all. If all she was allowed to do was confirm employment, fine, but why not say so? Has anybody ever heard of a firm forbidding all references?

    1. Here we go again*

      This is unbelievably common. The other day I posted about the irony of employers requiring references as a part of the employment process but having policies that forbid them from giving them out….

    2. AMPG*

      Absolutely, and it’s usually mostly a CYA for the company – generally people give references anyway, but can hide behind “policy” if they don’t want to give them for any reason.

    3. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      It’s ridiculous, as the others said. My former employer had the policy of never, ever rehiring an employee who left. No matter the reason, former employees are not eligible. And she refused to give a reference, only confirm employment. It was frustrating when people would call to confirm employment and ask if we would rehire the person only for her to adamantly refuse, often without explaining the policy. It’s the reason why I hid my job search from her when it was time for me to move on.

    4. Sunshine Brite*

      Yep, most of my previous positions in social services. It’s frustrating to say the least.

  98. CompSci Grad*

    Ok, so I’ve been searching for a job for a few months now with no luck. I know it hapoens but it’s discouraging–1 hit in 20 to 25 applications. I’m targeting my resume and writing cover letters. I think it’s a matter of no practical paid experience that’s causing issues.

    I’ve been thinking–should I make a website with some of my code/app examples? I’d add the link to my resume and cover letter as a “look at my portfolio” thing.

    Any other advice?

  99. Your Weird Uncle*

    What can you do about a colleague who seems to have it out for you and other colleagues?

    I’ve been at my role for about a year and a half, and this has just manifested itself recently. We’re going through some internal upheaval (more turnover than usual), but there’s nothing really that I can see that will impact our own roles in any measurable way. However, one colleague recently seems to be going out of her way to cause issues and find mistakes made by us. Sometimes these are genuine mistakes, which we all make from time to time, but she is going out of her way to make sure *everyone* knows they have been made. These are always small mistakes, and could be managed by a quick, ‘Hey, just so you know this happened, would you have a look?’ And sometimes nothing has actually happened, but she will say (darkly), ‘You’d better check up on Fergus, you know he probably didn’t do it right!’

    I try to keep my head down, do my work (and do it well) but I have to admit I’m starting to feel like there’s a witch hunt going on and I’m slowly being dragged into it. Any suggestions for pushing back, or just…not getting involved, even if it’s my own good name she’s dragging through the mud on any given day?

    1. Imaginary Number*

      I always like how Alison often recommends to point out the oddity of what they’re doing and forcing them to confront their behavior (without actually accusing them of anything.)

      “What a strange thing to say about a coworker. Do you have a problem with Fergus?”

      Or, if she’s telling everyone about a mistake someone made.

      “Why are you telling us this? Sally fixed that issue two days ago.”

      1. Your Weird Uncle*

        Thanks – that is a great suggestion and hopefully the next time it comes up I will remember to say this to her! Normally I am either taken aback or only realize what happened five minutes after she leaves my office.

        I chatted to some other colleagues who have noticed this too, and they are urging me to go to our boss as they think I’m specifically being bullied by her. I have to admit I’m usually too lax when it comes to this, and I struggle bringing things up to a boss because I’m not getting along with a coworker.

        1. OhBehave*

          This is more than not getting along with a coworker. This is someone trying to sabotage others.
          I wonder if she’s trying to leverage herself as the good employee? “See! I caught the mistake Fergus made. Aren’t you glad I’m around?”
          Office upheaval tends to make some nervous about their own jobs.

  100. JoAnna*

    I was laid off from my job at eight years on Wednesday. I had no clue it was coming so I’m still feeling pretty blindsided. I was working from home, and called in for what I thought was the regular weekly one-on-one with my manager. But there was an HR rep on the phone with him and I was informed that my position was being eliminated and I was laid off effective immediately. They gave me two weeks pay in lieu of notice and I get eight weeks of severance as well, so I’m thankful for that. One other person from my team was let go as well.

    I’ve already updated my resume and even sent in an application for a job yesterday. I’d forgotten how annoying job hunting could be. Why do I have to copy and paste my job history into a hundred form fields when I’ve already uploaded my resume??

    I’m giving some serious thought to just trying to find a part time, work from home independent contractor type job, though. I’m tired of paying more than my mortgage in daycare every month.

  101. In pain*

    Semi regular poster asking for advice. I work i a specialized call center. I am a specialist, alond with about 6 others with a team of about 8 admins. Boss and grandboss are female, head admin is male, all other admins are female, as are the specialists except for one recent hire who is a man.
    I have been there for 3 years. I am a high performer and recently received a small pay and title bump. Unfortunately, due to a previous work injury, I suffer chronic pain and migraines. Mostly I manage this by toughing it out and (inadequately) self medicating with legal otc medications. This is far from ideal but mostly works. My immediate manager is someone I like as a person but think sucks as a manager. She lets bullies and slackers of the hook but hammers her rock stars when they are pushed beyond and also says she gave instruments which she didn’t, changes assignments mid stream ( time and information sensitive ) and lies outright about what she says happened. She also yells and humiliates adults in front of their peers. Unless they are male, then she speaks to them in a conciliatory and collaborative way. I am looking for opportunities to leave but my health is starting to suffer. Migraines are becoming more frequent and severe. Any advice will be gratefully received. I am a shift worker and might not be able to in on the discussion much. Thank you.

    1. NaoNao*

      Honestly….I think it’s time for a new job.
      Call centers, even specialized ones, can be very notorious for these types of practices. Because of the pace of the work and volume of work, it’s hard for the upper levels of management to get a handle on what’s really going on day to day, so they miss a lot of the frustrations that make life very difficult for the “front line” employees.

      First, I’d separate, if possible, the migraines out as their own issue. You need professional, consistent treatment asap. Go to a doctor and get a prescription for handling migraines and a pain management plan. Another thing you might do is keep a diary and find out what triggers them: is it certain types of lighting, certain foods, hunger, etc. Part of the management plan is going to be preventing them, or nipping them in the bud. I understand this may be pricey, but you are already spending money on OTC meds and other remedies, and possibly losing out on work pay by missing work, or losing out on bonuses, etc by having to work at less than 100%. Think of it as an investment in your future.

      Secondly, work with someone you trust to pull out your accomplishments (such as meeting or exceeding stats, promotions, bonuses achieved, etc) about your work, and brush up your resume. Spend a few hours every week job searching, including networking.

      Thirdly, this will seem like odd advice, but if you can, let the management complaints go. As long as it’s not affecting you directly, try to just ignore them, or not react. If she changes assignments, okay, that’s the new assignment now–head down, start working on it. If she yells at you, just give her a professional, stone-faced “I apologize, it won’t happen again”. If she lets bullies off the hook—well, that’s annoying, but unless they are bullying you directly, let the bullied person worry about that.

      In short: unless something directly affects you day to day (ie, more than once) let go of it. It’s not in the employer’s best interest to let this woman go right now, so they’re not going to.

      The *most* valuable thing I learned from a very stressful call center job was to keep my head down and do my work. There were *so* many unfair and honestly, downright illegal, things happening. Not my problem. My problem is to get my paycheck, bonus, and avoid being fired until I can find a better job. If you refocus on that, you may find the stress goes down.

      1. Spoonie*

        Definitely all of this.

        I’m just going to address the migraine piece because…I can. There’s an app called Migraine Buddy that helps you document the onset and cessation of your migraines, along with barometric pressure, foods, location, etc. of your migraine. Stress is a big factor, but allergies can be, so can bad posture and diet, caffeine, alcohol, aged cheese. If you have a regular doctor, ask for a recommendation for a headache specialist. If you don’t, find one. You definitely want to see someone who specializes in migraine treatment. Not all neurologists do.

        In the meantime, definitely dust off the resume. Your situation is untenable. Job searching with migraines sucks. Interviewing with migraines really sucks. But you’ll get through it because staying where you are is just going to make things worse.

        1. In pain*

          Thank you NaoNao and Spoonie for your kind and considered advice, both for the migraines and the job situation. I will try your advice and update in a few weeks.

  102. JustaTech*

    This is a totally silly office pet peeve, but I’d really like someone else to tell me it’s silly so I can let it go:
    I work in a very eco-friendly city. In our food areas we have 3 bins; trash, recycle and compost. Recently a lot of people from my company moved in from another building. Correlated with the move I’ve found all kinds of trash in the compost (like soda bottles and plastic wrap and other stuff that’s clearly not compost). I thought that it might be that people were confused about the bins since since the words “Recycle” and “Compost” are hidden. So I labeled the bins on my floor. But stuff is still going in the wrong bins.
    I should just give up, right? Not my problem? I tried to help and it didn’t work, so let go?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      No, that’s really annoying. I would probably message about it instead of just putting on big labels. Some people may not even know what composting is (seriously). Can you send a mass email about it?

    2. AMPG*

      This is something an office manager or someone in a similar role should handle. Bring it up to them and let them deal with it in their own way. It might not get much (or any) better, but going on a crusade about it won’t make you look good. And I say this as someone who would totally develop an eye twitch over something like this.

    3. Nynaeve*

      The only other thing I could suggest is something I saw when I went to a conference at Stanford. Over each of the bins, they had posters with examples of what could go on the bin pasted on (so water bottles on the recycle bin, compostable trays on the compost bin, etc.). It was helpful to me because I wasn’t familiar with composting at all. So the most you could do would be to post pictures. (People will still get it wrong, probably, but maybe less so.)

      Unless you want to be the trash police forever, I’d let it go.

    4. JustaTech*

      OK, you all are right. We don’t have an office manager, and a mass email seems weird so I’ll let it go. The reason it got to me is that in this city everyone has to recycle and compost at home too (compost as in sort your compostables into a separate bin the city picks up with the trash and recycle), so there’s not much excuse beyond “didn’t even look”.

  103. Katie the Fed*

    Is anyone else trying to pursue financial independence/early retirement? My husband and I have been talking about it, and we really want the option to retire early. Right now I think we’re on track to punch out at 57, and I really want to make that happen. Or at least have the option. It’s going to involve some significant lifestyle choices but I really think I can do it.

    I’d love to go earlier but it would have a lot of negative impacts on my pension, benefits, etc.

    1. Manders*

      I don’t want to retire early, but I am trying to put myself in a position where I can freelance and take bigger financial risks. I took a huge step this week: I put in an offer on a condo in a building with no rental cap, so I can build some equity without actually paying more per month than I currently pay in rent, and I can eventually rent the place out for a bit of extra income.

      I don’t think I’ll ever truly retire in the sense that I’ll always want to keep writing and trying to sell that writing, but my goal is to be able to work from home and have a flexible schedule without living close to the bone like my friends who became starving artists in their 20s.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Yes, sort of. I am not a Mr. Money Moustache disciple or anything, but we had the benefit of starting adulthood young. I’m 39, and my oldest son is in college, and my youngest is wrapping up 7th grade. He should be finished with college (or otherwise on his own) and our house will be paid for before I hit 50.

      Right now, we’re trying to get into rental properties so that we can go that route for income before we get into my 401k. I don’t really want to retire- retire because I like being productive, but I want to be able to stop doing this.

    3. Master Bean Counter*

      I’ve thought about it. In fact that’s why I opted go to Roth on my 401K at my current job. Having that non-income pool of money to pull from while I’m still on my own for health care is going to be a huge benefit. Well at least if the income based subsidies continue…

    4. Grabapple McGee*

      YES. And we’ll be ready for retirement before we get financial independence so…. yeah. :/

      I just turned 50, hubby is 51. I started following a few blogs about purging and minimizing your lifestyle, which I really love. We are downsizing and looking at ways to make it possible for us to at least semi-retire in the next 5 to 7 years. We would love to travel the country and work part-time here and there, or work remote (we both are in industries which would support that).

      I personally love the idea of a small, simple life and I can say that since I’ve started to purge and make changes (I quit working full time earlier this year – hubby still does but works from home 90% of the time) our stress levels are way down and we don’t feel like we are rats running in a wheel anymore!

    5. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

      I am! I’m single and would love to bow out early so I could do…other things (travel abroad and volunteer, etc.). I don’t know if I’m quite on track to go in my 50s, but it’s pretty close to that, and that’s my goal. I’ve always been a saver, and an investor, and still have some work to do on investing some of my savings so it actually does something (or hopefully). Keep on plugging away!

    6. Tris Prior*

      Working toward it, but I don’t know how feasible it is. I read Mr. Money Mustache and am working hard on saving more and being frugal, but with the future of health care so up in the air, early retirement doesn’t really feel safe to me right now. If they do away with the pre-existing condition protections I am screwed.

      Anyway, I’m 45 and didn’t save much when I was younger since my salary was so low for many years…. so the early-retirement ship has probably sailed regardless. FU money is more likely than permanent retirement, I think.

    7. Cambridge Comma*

      Yes, we are aiming for 40, 45ish, so in the next ten years. We’ve been saving 85% of our income for a while so it’s been going quite well. We are not from the States though, so probably not having to pay health insurance and medical expenses helps with that.

  104. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Tangential-to-work question: if your coworkers are close, is it weird to ask about spending a small vacation together? My wife and I want to rent a cabin for Memorial Day weekend, but could not find any one-bedroom ones. It’s not necessary, but to share costs and maybe make a friend (my wife is outgoing and friendly and has many work friends), she was thinking of asking a coworker she is friends with, if they want to come and split costs. Separate bedroom, shared bath.

    1. Imaginary Number*

      I don’t think it’s weird if they’re pretty close. If she’s worried about sounding too forward with someone she’s not that close to yet, she could bring it up tangentially in a conversation. She could talk about the planned trip and mention as an aside that you’re looking to invite another couple or two. If the coworker is interested, they would speak up.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq*

      If that would be the first time your wife and that particular coworker would be spending time together socially outside of work, it might be a little weird to jump right to vacationing together (although different people have different comfort levels, I’m sure). But if there’s an established friendship, I wouldn’t think twice about it.

    3. ..Kat..*

      Just make sure that it is explicitly understood how costs are being shared. For example, will every thing be split 3 ways, since there will be three people? Or do you expect the third person to pay half, since she would get her own bedroom? What about food? Everyone buys their own? Split the cost evenly? What if one of you has expensive tastes? What about booze? I have seen a lot of hard feelings when these things are assumed. That said, hope you have fun!

  105. Imaginary Number*

    I was recently assigned a “coach” in my company. This isn’t an individual thing: everyone in my program was assigned one. They’ve explained that this is not the same thing as a mentor, but is supposed to be someone you can go to for general career or work advice (kind of what people do here, I guess.) My coach is not only not in the same area of the business as me (I’m in teapot design and she’s in coffee pot advertising) but not even the same country, although it’s an English speaking country. This means that all of my meetings with my assigned coach must be over the phone or telepresence.

    I actually think my coach and I have a lot in common and she’s probably a good fit for me, but the significant distance (and time zone) is making it very awkward. The relationship feels very formal where we have to plan in advance when times to meet over the phone and because of that, the topics feel very forced. It seems like this sort of relationship would work much better in a setting where we could go grab coffee or something and the conversation would be very casual. I just can’t get comfortable talking about more personal work-related things with her.

    Do you have any suggestions to make this coaching relationship less forced despite the distance? I can imagine that it probably feels awkward for her too.

  106. FiveWheels*

    So, central heating wars!

    One person on my floor (about 20 people total) is colder than everyone else, and even when it’s so hot I feel physically sick she will go round closing doors and windows because she is cold, while everyone else is perfectly comfortable.

    It’s so extreme that people with private offices find it uncomfortable even to walk through the open plan area. Those of us in the open plan area are going quietly mad.

    The cold person wears very light, thin, floaty clothes. It’s a very formal office and all the male professional staff, half the female professional staff, and a chunk of the support staff wear suits and shirts and cannot opt for floaty clothes. (Nor would I want to, as I’d be uncomfortably cold on my commute.)

    I feel that Thermostat Wars should keep the office on the colder end of the scale, because cold people can put on a jumper/sweater but hot people can’t strip off. Am I totally off base? And does anyone have any scripts to get this point across?

    I’ve literally said that it’s unbearably hot and working naked isn’t an option. This gets a laugh… And then she closes the windows.

    Help!

    1. TGIF*

      Given that it’s only one person in the office who is oddly cold, I think it would be fair to tell them to get some heavier clothes because we’re turning the heat down. I think it would have to come from the top person in the department though. So maybe get everyone together to tell the Head Boss that you’re all in unbearable conditions because of one person.

    2. DivineMissL*

      Sorry, I’m on the opposite side. While it’s impossible to find the right temperature to make everyone happy, I don’t understand why my employer wastes energy to keep the building at freezing temperatures when a more moderate setting would save energy and make us more comfortable. I admit it’s mostly the women who are cold (the men never seem to comment), but we sit here running space heaters, drinking hot coffee and wearing thick sweaters three seasons of the year (and part of the fourth) – why not kick the thermostat up 3 or 4 degrees?

      1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

        But there are multiple people in your office with that preference. In FiveWheels’ office, there’s just one person who is excessively cold.

      2. FiveWheels*

        Wasting energy to keep the building cold confused me there. Here in the glorious UK the energy is to warm things up!

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Someone needs to tell her to keep a sweater in the office or wear layers. When you’re the only one uncomfortable with the temperature, you need to figure out a way to work around it.

      I’m someone who tends to run warm and I keep a fan on my desk as well as dressing in layers. I very rarely wear long sleeves.

    4. Emily*

      I’m not sure how to best confront the issue, but I agree with you that it’s unreasonable for one person to dictate the office temperature when it makes most of the other workers uncomfortable.

      I don’t agree with you that the office thermostat should be kept cold all the time – I think that people should try to find a middle temperature. But I don’t think you’re off base in this instance.

    5. Master Bean Counter*

      The perfect temperature for an office is when half of the people are hot and half are cold. I’d give her a sweater and some finger-less gloves and open the window.
      What gives the one person the power to decide the temperature for the entire office? Especially if others are getting sick? Can you round the troops and find her an office in the hottest part of the building so she can bake in peace and the rest of you can survive?

    6. T3k*

      Question about your dress code: are you (or rather the cold coworker) allowed to walk around the office in say, a large winter coat that’s more appropriate for skiing? If so, then I’d say lower the temps and let her do that. There are also times when it’s too cold that one’s finger tips go numb (and no, typing with gloves does not work, tried that several times and failed spectacularly).

      However, as I’m that very cold-natured person as well, I have my reasons for not wearing others things. For example, I never wear long sleeves (sweaters, hoodies, etc.) because while I get cold easily, long sleeves get me too hot too quickly indoors, so what happens is 10 mins. wearing one, I have to take it off, 5 mins. later I’m now freezing so I pull it back on, 10 more mins. hot again take off, etc. BUT as I was allowed to wear my large winter coat in the office, and I mostly sat, I’d have it draped around me (not have my arms in the sleeves) and work like that and most times I was fine.

      Also, I’m assuming she doesn’t have her own office. One place I worked, I had my own closet/office, so I was allowed to use a space heater. Made my boss grumpy every time they walked in to talk and the room was 75+ but outside where she usually was, it was 65, so eh. Though, even if she doesn’t have her own office, maybe see if she can use a space heater just for her little area.

    7. mreasy*

      That person should get a space heater. However, in general, I believe temps should be kept on the warmer side 74 rather than 70, e.g.), because it’s easy to say “just wear a sweater” when your fingers aren’t turning blue.

      1. FiveWheels*

        Yeah, fingers can’t be warmed up like the rest of the body, but it’s not that level of cold she dislikes. This person is also in charge of the thermostat and even the big bosses have decided it’s not a bill they want to die on.

        Sigh. I fear the options are either succumb to heatstroke or make it my hill. Or just strip off.

      2. FiveWheels*

        Also… 74 Fahrenheit? Eek, that’s hotter than shorts and ice cream on the beach weather! I understand that “ideal” UK room temperature is meant to be around 18-20 degrees, which is 64 to 68 Fahrenheit.

        80% plus humidity is pretty normal here. Sweat a little carrying a heavy box and you’ll be damp for a long time.

        1. esra (also a Canadian)*

          Ugh yea, I’ve had a few people say 24 degrees is room temperature and I’m firmly convinced it’s 20.

    8. ..Kat..*

      Well, she’s not even trying. She should be wearing a sweater or blazer before she starts dictating the office temperature.

      The other workers as a group (or a manager!) should tell her to knock it off.

  107. Collarbone High*

    Any tax professionals out there who can give me a definitive answer on this?

    I’m a W-2, salaried, full-time employee of a corporation headquartered in the US. I work 100% remotely, as my company has no offices in my state.

    I pay monthly membership fees out of pocket to belong to a local co-working space, that provides desk space and (most importantly for me) enterprise-level WiFi. I’m allowed to work anywhere I have a reliable internet connection, and while most of our remote employees work from home, our VPN is incredibly slow on my home WiFi, so I prefer to work at the co-working space. The company will not pay for co-working.

    My question is, are the fees tax deductible as an unreimbursed employee expense? I can’t find a good answer that applies to remote employees rather than 1099 freelancers.

    1. De Minimis*

      I think that they would be, though you may not meet the 2% AGI threshold [which is often the case with un-reimbursed employee expenses.]

  108. Anonanon*

    Inspired by a comment a while back that 90% of the problems people write in about could be solved by better communication. Miscommunications or misunderstandings that have hurt your career, and solutions if you think of any. Go.

    1. JustaTech*

      Well, I spent a week working on a presentation only to discover other people were doing it and my role was going to be totally different. I didn’t have anything else to do, so it wasn’t totally wasted, and I learned a bunch of stuff, but it would have been nice to know what was going on.

  109. DivineMissL*

    Hi All! I’m looking for opinions here.
    My son is turning 14 (minimum age in our state for working) and I would like him to get a job, 10-15 hours/week, for the summer. I think teens benefit in many ways from working, and I want him to do something productive instead of lying around for three months. When I was a kid growing up in a beach resort town, everybody started working at 14 and jobs were plentiful. Now it seems much harder; most employers seem to want ages 16 or 18 (fewer restrictions), but it’s not impossible.

    The problem is, my son doesn’t have any desire to work and has no interest in his own disposable income. Since he has no motivation to actually find a job or to make an effort to impress a potential employer if he actually gets an interview, I’d be stuck with pushing and coaching him (with him resisting the whole time). On the one hand, I think he’d be proud to get a paycheck and he would learn a lot; on the other hand, it would create more work for me.

    So, commenters, here’s where you come in – should I bite the bullet and nag him into finding a job for his own good; or let it ride until he’s 15 or 16, when the job hunt would be easier and save myself the aggravation? Thanks!

    1. iseeshiny*

      I would let him choose not to get a job, but if he doesn’t I’d make him do something else productive – an academic program, maybe classes to learn a skill, or volunteering at a charitable organization, maybe just a big project around the house like painting or gardening. Something with the same kind of time commitment. If he’s not interested in money maybe he’s interested in something else.

      2. Spoonie*

        At his age, I was volunteering at a hospital — that was (I think anyway, memory’s fuzzy) the minimum age to do that. Jobs were scarce for that age range until 16-18, so I wanted to learn something, and I was curious about maybe going into physical therapy as an occupation — I later decided waaaay differently (not because of the experience, volunteering was fabulous).

    2. Katie the Fed*

      I’m not a parent, but I would say you might want to tell him he has to do SOMETHING with his summer. Volunteering, taking a class, completing some creative project, etc. Either that or get a job.

    3. T3k*

      Oh dear, this brings back bad memories. Real quick, I wouldn’t say nag them to death, or rather, what my dad did, which was practically yell at me to get a job that left me crying, sometimes in public, on more than one occasion, but anywho, assuming you don’t mean that method, I’d say try to push them into getting a job in a hobby they enjoy. Does he have any interests, like video games, animals, crafts, etc? If so, I’d try to be like “hey, you really like doing this, why not see about getting a summer job doing that?” Maybe try to use examples even of turning that hobby into a future career (I know if my dad had come at an angle of “I noticed you like video games, have you thought about video game design as a career?” would have made things go a lot smoother than going “get a job!”) If anything, try to get him to volunteer during the summer.

      Also, how will he get to the job/what days of the week will it be is a factor. The main reason the only job I had during the summer was working at a stables (and only on the weekends during school) was because I didn’t even have a rust bucket to get me there, so I had to rely on my parents to drop me off. This is also the reason I was hesitant getting another job during the school year, because I knew it’d mean my mom would have to pull all the weight getting me there and back.

    4. Temperance*

      It’s almost impossible for 14-year-olds in a lot of areas to get a job. It’s unfortunately not as easy now.

      FWIW, while I think it would be great for him to work if he can, can he do something to build his resume/college applications? I’m thinking summer classes, volunteer work, etc. A friend of mine has a 15-year-old, and he’s going to be attending a special program at a college to help boost his application/scholarship potential. Another friend’s kid is working very part-time at the local library.

      1. FiveWheels*

        I understand that extracurriculars can make the difference, but is it really enjoyable for a teenager to pursue a hobby *to boost their college application* rather than because they enjoy it?

        My non academics were mainly sport related, but I can’t imagine loving my sport if I was playing it with an end goal of getting a better job in ten years, as opposed to enjoying the sport for itself.

        1. Temperance*

          I grew up poor, so, FWIW, I would have killed for the opportunity to help get more money for college. I wasn’t having fun anyway, because I grew up poor in a rough family situation, so resume building would have been great.

          I also am thinking maybe that having fun isn’t the most important thing? I’m biased, though, as a former poor kid who just had to work for money.

    5. AnotherAlison*

      My boys are 19 and 12. Like you said, it was hard for the oldest one to get a job due to lack of openings for 14 year olds. He did work fast food when he was 16, but he was kind of like your son as far as motivation. He has done lawn mowing on his own the past couple summers because of traveling baseball, and he doesn’t work at all now because as a college athlete he has no free time. He’s working for my husband this summer and playing in a collegiate baseball league, so he’ll be busy.

      I personally would not worry about him getting a real job this year, but if he could do lawn stuff for neighbors, or volunteer to coach, or get an umpiring job or similar, I would recommend that. It’s good for kids to get out and interact with other generations, but I don’t think an unmotivated 14 year old will necessarily lead to an unemployed 44 year old in your basement.

    6. Grabapple McGee*

      I was content to let my sons not work during the summers if they didn’t want to. My thinking was (and still is) they are going to give up summer vacation soon enough, why not let them enjoy being kids a little while longer?

      That said, it did mean that there were things they would not get to do, or get to buy, because they were not necessities or because we could not afford them (or just refused to buy for them). It also meant that if they were going to be at home all day doing nothing while we both worked, they would be given chores to do.

      They were both alright with the arrangement until they reached driving age. Then they both wanted their own money to spend, plus they had cars (we did buy them each a cheap, used car when they turned 16).

      Is there anything that he is interested in where he could volunteer? Animal shelter? Summer youth program? Church group? Maybe that’s an option that lands in between “work” and “nothing.”

      It is aggravating to be working hard to make a living and your teenager spends the summer sleeping ’til noon and playing video games. :) :) And it will drive you crazy to keep nagging and pushing him. But there’s a happy medium there somewhere!

    7. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

      It is really hard to get a formal job at 14; but, could your son volunteer? When I was that age, 16 for a formal job was a requirement due to rules about how late those under 16 could work; and you want a person to be able to do any shifts. However, I volunteered at the library with kids’ summer events, the annual book sale, and such. Maybe 5 hours a week. Then I also helped with an afternoon weekly group at church for kids 8-12 (3-4 hours a week, and any field trips). The church also had summer youth group one night a week, combined with two other churches to make up the lower summer attendance. We also had a field trip, and did highway cleanup and packing at the food pantry for a few hours some weeks. My mom was also abroad for nearly a month that summer, so while she was out and my dad was working, her dog was entirely my responsibility and I had to do all of mom’s chores except cooking, lawn care, and laundry (vacuum, clean my room and the upstairs bathroom I used, sweep the porch, set and clear and do dishes for meals, and water the garden). When she got back, I still did all vacuuming and dishes, and walked her dog once a day. It seemed like a lot at a time I just wanted to spend time with my first real friend from school, but mostly, I still had time for that, and she would even help me when we wanted to hang out but I had to also take on mom’s chores. And we’d walk the dog together. Your son can certainly be expected to do chores, and also exercise in some way, even if you don’t have a pet to walk.

      And if you can afford it, have you thought of academic and/or foreign language immersion summer camps? I went to German-language camp until I was 15, and it definitely helped me gain new skills and independence and be academically stronger.

      1. DivineMissL*

        Thanks to all of you who responded! Last summer I had him do projects around the house to keep busy (cleaning out the basement, weeding the garden, etc.) to earn his privilege to lay about. This summer I was thinking jobs within walking/biking distance of our home, although I’m supportive about providing rides if needed.

        Many of you suggested volunteering, which I think is a great idea – our library and our senior center are each less than a mile away. I’ll see if they are receptive to a reluctant teen volunteer! :)

        1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

          That sounds great! I also volunteered at the senior center twice a month or so; they had “bingo night” and my youth church group sat with seniors who couldn’t hear or see as well and helped them with their cards.

        2. Natalie*

          If you can find a place where other teens volunteer, he might enjoy that a bit more. When I was around his age I did a summer volunteer program at the zoo, where we took care of the plants around the park and raised our own vegetables to feed to the animals. (I threw a cucumber to a gorilla, which was neat.) The program was all my same age cohort and we worked in groups, so I was much less cranky about it.

        3. Temperance*

          Speaking as a former teen, he’d probably have way more fun at the library than the senior center. I always hated volunteering with seniors when I was a kid. Obviously, YMMV. ;)

        4. Grabapple McGee*

          Keep in mind you’ll have to lay down the ground rules with him, and be really clear! Otherwise your “reluctant” volunteer will be so horrible, they won’t want him around and you’ll be embarrassed. (been there… done that… ahem)

    8. Anon Anon*

      How about requiring him to volunteer if you don’t want him sitting around. You could give him a month to find either a paid or volunteer gig of his choosing, and if not you will sign him up for a volunteer position of your choosing.

      Although I do think 14 might be a little on the young side for a summer job. I remember it being tough more than 25 years ago trying to find a job when I was 16/17, and I think it’s even more challenging these days.

    9. HannahS*

      The rule in my family was “You have to do SOMETHING in the summer.” My older brother worked. The summer before high school, I still went to summer camp (just local day ones) and did some volunteering. After that, I generally one month in summer school (fast-tracking courses) and the other month resting. Plus some volunteering, because my province it’s mandatory to graduate.

    10. Nanc*

      Any day camp programs in your area that have junior counselors? If you’re in a big urban area parks and rec probably has them, and may have interest-specific ones for things like computers, drama, sports, etc. I worked in parks and rec and later in continuing education and it was great to see campers become junior counselors and later come back as regular employees.

    11. Pixel*

      I am not a llama, but I happen to have a kiddo who is the same age and also not the most motivated worker, to put it mildly. I capitalized on their love of all things cat, and when friends ask to cat-sit it wasn’t perceived as a job but as yay, kitties!

      Maybe your son can be asked by friends/neighbours with summer travel plans to house/pet/plant sit, which would exempt him from actively looking and will not feel like a “real” job?

    12. FiveWheels*

      When I was that age, summer was heaven because for weeks and weeks and weeks I could keep my own schedule, be happy, relax, breathe. That might mean learning rock climbing or it might mean staying awake for three days straight to write a novel (somehow, that didn’t work!), but either way I was free to be a kid.

      My father believed pretty passionately that children should be allowed to be children, and your “job” at that age was learning. That ranged from school to browsing encyclopaedias to hanging out with friends, which is (among other things) learning social skills and learning about yourself.

      I don’t think paid employment is of itself a good thing.

    13. KAZ2Y5*

      I’m with you on teens doing something productive during the summer, although I don’t think it always has to be a job. I gave my son the option of working or volunteering during the summer. He volunteered (mainly at our church) every year until the summer between high school and college, and had a job then.
      For me, as long as it was ok budget-wise, I would give him the option of either a paying job or volunteering/working at home (maybe you have some labor-intensive jobs at home that need to be done?) and let him pick.

    14. Genevieve Shockley*

      At his age, he doesn’t compute that who he works for (or volunteers for) today, will be the people that he should try to use as a reference when he is older.

      May I suggest, have him make a list of who he would use as references if he had to get a job to support himself today. Then ask him to go talk to those he would use as references and ask them what they would need to know about him, to get a good reference and what advice they would give him about work ethic, and getting and keeping a job.

      The above effort during the summer, even resulting in no income, might just give him the kick he needs to understand the step stones in the working life.

      (For what it is worth, my parents were against me having a job after school ..in 1870..and without a car I wasn’t able to travel the 18 miles to the next small city to get a job during the summer. When I got my first job after Freshman year of college, I used my parents friends Bridge friends as references and didn’t realize until much later that all they could really say was that they had known me for X years and that I had never gotten in any legal trouble. There was nothing they could say about any work ethic or ability.)

  110. T3k*

    So, this is just a small issue, and I wanted to make sure it was ok. I have 2 friends from high school (now in our late 20s) that work for the same company (one just started a month ago, the other has been there for several years). Since I’m desperate for any job atm to help pay the bills, and the other friend that’s been there for several years has some pull with interviews and mentioned to me a few times they were hiring for their call center, I told them this week to put my name/resume in.

    Here’s the problem: the place requires a type of clearance that takes a month to get and costs the company about a thousand or so to do for each new employee. I did check with the one that works in the call center about turnover (some do leave after a few months while some stay for years). My problem is this: while it’s highly unlikely I’ll get a better paying job within the time it takes to start working at this place, I don’t want it to reflect badly on my friend who recommended me if it does happen. So, would the company be ok if I left after just a few months, or would it put a dent in my friend’s reputation there?

  112. Not Today Satan*

    I became a manager a month ago and I already have the supervisee from hell. She managed a single program for 3 months last year while her then manager was on maternity leave, and she now believes that anything below the level of project management is beneath her. (Literally uses the words “embarrassed” and “I’ve never done anything at this low a level”, which is just straight up untrue.) Not to mention, the job she has is the one I did until a month ago, yet she somehow doesn’t see how insulting it is to talk that away about her job.

    The kicker is, she’s leaving in a month anyway, yet is somehow hopeful that I will move hell and high water to make her job more interesting.

    I’ve already had a frank talk with her, but I just wanted to complain.

    1. paul*

      I’m petty and cranky today, so I want to imagine you going full on in an effort to make it “interesting”: give her fires to put out, messes to clean up, catastrophes to fix until she’s pulling her hair out. and counting down the hours.

    2. Imaginary Number*

      Ugh, yes. “You’re getting paid the same salary regardless of whether I ask you to lead the project, take notes, or clean the toilets. Be happy it’s not the latter.”

      Okay … maybe don’t say that. :)

    3. Mike C.*

      Well it’s springtime for most of the world, and that means it’s time for a nice car wash. Not just a wash though, I mean full clay and polishing treatment as well.

      Make sure your supervisee understand that the job isn’t done until she can clearly see her reflection in your vehicle.

  113. MsMaryMary*

    How do you feel about people including a picture of themselves in their email signature? I’m torn. It can be nice to know what someone looks like, especially if you work together frequently but are unlikely to meet face to face. On the other hand, some of the pictures I’ve seen lean more towards headshots or even glamour shots than a professional picture. Not a huge fan of those. And, of course, some people aren’t comfortable sharing pictures, which makes it awkward if everyone else in your organization does.

    What do you all think?

    2. Imaginary Number*

      At my work you see peoples’ pictures when you pull up their outlook profile. I find that useful because, in a large company, sometimes you don’t realize the person you’re emailing is someone you already met face-to-face. It helps put a face to a name. So I don’t see anything wrong with putting a picture in your email signature. That being said, you’re absolutely right that they should be professional pictures that make it easy to identify the person vs. black and white glamour shots zoomed in on someone’s face with their head tilted to the side looking thoughtful.

      1. Sadsack*

        Some people here have pics of their grandchildren and pets. I find this really dumb. A coworker emailed me a screenshot of something that took up most of the screen, but for some reason her ID photo of her grandchildren was connected to it side by side, the same size. She said she does not know why that happens. So I wondered to myself why the heck a person would continue to have an ID photo if this is the result. As cute as those kids are, I thought it looked unprofessional and made her appear a little inept.

    4. De Minimis*

      Some people do it here as part of their Outlook/Gmail profile, but not everyone does. I choose not to do it.
      The pics are not that professional, though I guess that is seen as fitting with the funky educational non-profit vibe.

    5. a girl has no name*

      IT just made it mandatory to have a photo on our email. Apparently it’s for security issues. I hate it more than you can possibly imagine. (I know it’s not the same as a signature, but this struck a chord.)

    6. Emilia Bedelia*

      I really like it when people have pictures in Outlook. In a company of thousands of people, where I often don’t know the person I’m working with, it is helpful to know who I’m looking for when I have a meeting with them (or even just to know “oh yeah, it’s the lady I see all the time at the coffee station”). With people who work at different offices, it’s nice to put a face to the name, even if I will never meet them in person.
      Most people in my company have actual company headshots they use, but some have other professional-looking pictures- mine is just a nice picture of my face from another event. Some people don’t use pictures, and that’s fine too! But I do like seeing people’s pictures, and I like that my company lets me use my own photo (my official ID photo is pretty terrible)

        1. AnotherAlison*

          My picture is literally 10 years old, so people might think it’s not me! They took it here at work years ago, and it recently mysteriously reappeared on all my stuff (HRIS profile, Outlook, etc). We were supposed to have professional ones taken about 4 years ago, but I skipped it and am now stuck with this dumb picture.

  114. WhirlwindMonk*

    Does anyone have any experience with quitting a job on good terms and offering to do contract work for that company?

    My wife and I are expecting our first child this summer, and one option we are considering is that after she finishes maternity leave, I’ll leave my full-time job to be a stay-at-home dad, and seek part-time or contract work that’ll fill 10-20 hours a week that I can do during naps, in the evening, on weekends, etc. One of the options I’ve considered is offering part-time contract work to my current company as right now I provide the company with set of skills outside the core functions of my position that no one else in the company has and that they are making good use of in addition to my core responsibilities. If anyone has successfully (or unsuccessfully!) done this and has any advice, I’d appreciate it!

    1. babblemouth*

      I’ve seen it done quite a lot, and it usually went in a bit of a roundabout way. When you leave and people inevitably ask what you’re up to next, explain you’re starting freelancing, and that you’ll be looking for contracts. Then market yourself on LinkedIn regularly.
      If you’re leaving on good terms, you can count on your name coming up whenever there is a need, but you need to be sure to regularly remind people (in a non-pushy way) that you’re available.

  115. dear liza dear liza*

    Is it possible to train your eye to be better at graphics? About half a dozen times a year I have to create a flyer, brochure, or PowerPoint that is graphic-heavy, and I just don’t have an eye for making things look pretty. I rely heavily on templates, but what often happens is that I’ll share my version with a colleague, who will make it look much more attractive with just a few modifications. I can certainly *appreciate* when things look nice, but I don’t know how to train myself to create attractive items. I used to simply say, “Eh, I wasn’t born with that talent” but 1) I have to do it often enough that it would be a useful skill and 2) I’m trying to model a growth mindset. If you’re not born with the aptitude, develop it.

    1. UK designer*

      There are some sound design principles on typography, colour and shape that anyone can read about and learn in order to adapt their designs… But if it was easy for everyone then us designers wouldn’t have jobs, so don’t beat yourself up too much :)
      Protip: never use Comic Sans. Ever.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        +1 to never Comic Sans

        I was on a volunteer board with someone who used it exclusively in her emails and even formal reports. One of the comments when she resigned was that we wouldn’t have to deal with Comic Sans ever again.

        I still get the occasional email from her, and now she’s switched to one of those impossible to read cursive scripts.

        Also never a good idea. EVER.

        1. JustaTech*

          I once watched a respected professor with tons of big-deal grants give a research presentation in Comic Sans. At a professional conference. I was mortified.

      2. dear liza dear liza*

        Sometimes the obvious has to be pointed out to me! I have been trying to learn the tools, but I was skipping over the foundations.

        And I only use Comic Sans to prank people.

      3. De Minimis*

        Our admin uses Comic Sans in her signature! It drives me insane.

        I’ve heard pushback about how people should be more open to using it [there was some article that claimed it was more inclusive], but I just can’t do it.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          How can a font be more inclusive or exclusive? I realize the people who do use it are probably trying to be casual and friendly, but I can’t get on board with more people using it. Unless they use rainbow colors, too.

          1. De Minimis*

            I don’t remember the gist of it…something about how it was easier to read for people with learning disabilities or dyslexia…something along those lines. It portrayed Comic Sans naysayers as exclusionary meanies.

              1. JustaTech*

                There are other, specially made fonts for people with dyslexia that don’t carry the same baggage. And those fonts are scientifically designed so the letters are “weighted” so your brain is less likely to flip them around. I

    2. paul*

      Maybe try reading up on the basics of the principals of graphics design? I’ve been debating doing this myself, in an attempt to make some of our reports more interesting. I’m good in Excel, and I can get numbers, but we all seem to uniformly suck at making them leap out and be interesting.

    3. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

      Most fun job you might like to do, go!

      I would like to be a camp counselor in summers at the camp I went to as a kid; Concordia Language Villages’ German immersion. I mean, tons of nature, a break from tech, using language skills, and tons of activities with fun, smart, geeky kids. It’s basically posh nature camp; completely in German. With high school and college credit options.

      Honestly, part of the whole reason I want to have kids is so I can take them there for “family camp” weekends and send them off on their own too. I’d give my literal arm, leg, and firstborn to be a kid and experience it again.

      All other considerations aside, what would be your best/ideal/most fun job?

      1. vpc*

        I did Concordia in Chinese when I was a teenager! The flight from Milwaukee to Bemidji was the first time I flew by myself and the first time I was on a plane that small.

        I didn’t go back as a camp counselor there, but I did it at the Girl Scout camp I went to. It was a sleep-away camp and there was a new group of campers every week for eight weeks, although some campers came for more than one week. I was a counselor for the summer after my sophomore year of college. Honestly… the hours were terrible, the pay was worse, and I quickly established a reputation as one of the “responsible” ones, which meant I got assigned to either the kids who were 14-16 (so three whole years younger than me, who I just wasn’t ready to handle as an authority figure) or to 15 younger kids (preferred ratio was 6 campers per counselor, but I think up to 20 was legal). Despite that, I loved the job and the summer and was proud to give back to the institution that had given me so much as a child.

        Do it! Do it!

    4. Orange*

      Learning some design theory is always useful! I don’t know how much you already know, but even just the basics of composition and color theory will take you miles. There are lots of free tutorials online!
      If you already know the basics, I personally find it really useful to look at examples of design you like and pull it apart. What’s so good about the design? The colors, the symmetry, the negative space? How you can integrate/mirror that into your own stuff? And then also study what kind of edits your colleagues make to your stuff for a pattern. Do they always change the colors, or the fonts? Etc. That’d give you something specific you can focus on improving, if there’s a pattern. Learning the design theory so you have a vocabulary to articulate what all the changes are & to what can be eye-opening, imo.
      If they’re only every making very minor edits, then I’d say you’re already pretty good at design! Every designer needs someone to look at their stuff with fresh eyes, even seasoned ones. If the minor edits your colleagues make lead to “Oh, duh! Of course that should have been changed; why didn’t I see it?” moments from you, my advice is to just give your eyes a rest from time to time. :-) Put away something for a few days or even a few minutes always helps me reevaluate for anything I may have missed before.
      This is coming from a young design person with no formal training in design, so it’s just my method. I’d love to hear what others have to say! :-)

    5. LadyKelvin*

      Consider taking a beginner photography class. A lot of community colleges offer 1 night classes or short run evening classes that basically teach you how to take a photo. It might sound weird, but I took one in college that taught me how to create (or capture) an image that would draw your eye. Things like how lines take you through the image, how colors interact, how to set up an image to be pleasing to someone’s perception. And while it was focused on photography, those skills are completely applicable to designing eye-catching graphics. Its really about understand how to put together an image and how people react to different kinds of images. Plus the community college classes are often inexpensive or even free.

  116. Voluntold Volunteer*

    Has anyone here successfully transitioned out full-time retail work into another field?

    My husband has worked in retail store management for the last several years (basically since graduating college a decade ago). He is great at sales, but is tired of living by commission. He is really unsure of what kind of jobs to be looking for. He has a bachelors degree in business and is very good with math/numbers, but he’s not terribly great with computers other than basic stuff. Any thoughts?

    1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      A good friend started working in a small retail location, became manager, then regional manager. She parlayed that over to a financial institute working with the business accounts. It can be done! In addition, my sister worked at a cell phone store in college and ran that straight up to a National Sales Account position where she was working with major, brand name sponsors and such. She’s moved to various start-ups as a consultant over the last few years in helping establish business and sales practices.

      There are lots of options depending on what part of the job he likes best. He has tremendous business skills if he is successfully managing retail and sales work.

    2. Retail Escapee*

      Yep! I was a store manager for almost a decade before switching careers. First I switched to managing a staff for a front-facing non-profit, then got promoted to an exec position on the team. It can be done, you just have to be careful to highlight the overlapping skills on your resume.

    3. NaoNao*

      Yes!
      I worked in retail while going to school for almost a decade.
      I transitioned to customer-facing call center work to polish my office skills and get a “desk job” and then parlayed that into a specific job that played to my strengths (call center work, ESL work, customer service knowledge). I then parlayed *that* into training and training design, where I am now.
      Things that helped:
      I usually worked two or more jobs at once, one of which was more professional or office/desk based, such as tutoring or working as a page at the library.
      When applying for jobs, I looked at my skill set and told a story about how those skills and accomplishments could apply to other, non-retail, non-call-center jobs.
      I applied pretty broadly to jobs that I thought were a good match, but I kept it to jobs that were a strong match that I’d like—no admin stuff, no business lead generation, etc.

    4. Natalie*

      There are plenty of sales jobs that pay a salary and commissions are more like a bonus for exceeding certain metrics. Would he consider staying in sales?

  117. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    People, just a reminder to please be careful what you put in work email!

    I am currently reviewing the content of an email server for a lawsuit, and all us legal beagles are laughing now since I found several emails of two people from the rival companies…flirting. Using their work accounts.

    If you’re going to put private stuff in email at work…don’t. Or at least make it funny. Because we do laugh at you.

    1. Manders*

      That would be a GREAT modern-day Romeo and Juliet story.

      Two companies, both alike in market share,
      In fair Wall Street, where we lay our scene,
      From ancient grudge break to new crudity,
      Where naughty texts make email threads unclean.

        1. CM*

          ‘Tis the 43rd floor of the Citicorp headquarters, and the Lead Financial Analyst is the sun.

          (Manders, I’m very impressed by your iambic pentameter.)

          1. Manders*

            Meeting adjourned! Parting is such sweet sorrow,
            That I shall have an agile stand-up chat tomorrow.

            (Iambic pentameter is getting away from me…)

            1. Ramona Flowers*

              “Or else, if you won’t change your firm, just swear you love me and I’ll set fire to my cubicle.”

              “Should I listen for more, or get on Slack now?”

              “It’s only your firm that’s my enemy.”

      2. Not a Real Giraffe*

        THANK YOU for this, this made my whole day (and I’m already having a pretty good day).

    2. The IT Manager*

      Not quite the same thing (in fact a lot creepier), but Attachments by Rainbow Rowell.

    3. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Our VP once addressed a large group of staff and reminded us that we are subject to FOIA, that our University has had them, she is one of just a few people authorized to pull that information, and depending on the keywords requested, she sees ALL YOUR PRIVATE BUSINESS. So yes, she does, in fact, know exactly what you think of her AND the dude who works at that one office in the specific building.

    4. JustaTech*

      Dance like no one is watching, e-mail like it will be read in open court.
      Or printed on the front page of the local paper.

  118. Milton*

    I’ve wanted to post this since January but it escapes me every week:

    The UoP commercial about the young farm worker becoming the Director of Nursing makes me well up with tears every time!!! Minus points for being from the University of Phoenix, but it is such a great commercial. My path was simple and straightforward. Every time I see this commercial I think of all the kids who were dealt difficult hands and still you soar. I’m tearing up right now! Hugs for everyone.

    Shout out to all of you who have overcome great challenges!!!

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      The SNHU commercial where they drive around in a bus and deliver diplomas gets me every time. As a higher ed person who has worked at a mostly online state school, it was genius and I wish I’d thought of it.

      1. DivineMissL*

        Yes! Especially the guy who chokes up a little bit when they give it to him, and then kisses his son and says, “I did this for you, buddy.” *sniff*

    2. Hunger Games Summer*

      I feel the same way when I see those commercials

      My education/career path was very winding and will without a doubt reduce my growth potential by 10ish years long term, but I still got through (albeit with some rough detours) and I am happy to see media showing what can happen when you take the slower path

  119. Michelle*

    I had a coworker be very rude to me today when I asked if she had gotten an urgent note from one the people we advertise with. This particular employee is a director but she is out almost every Monday and will get in a pattern where she is out multiple days a week, then she’ll come on time for about 2 weeks, then right back to her pattern.

    When one of the agencies call they usually have already tried to reach here via text, email and voicemail and had gotten no response. They are upset and need things ASAP because they have deadlines. This doesn’t affect my work personally, except that I am the person who gets the brunt of their anger because she will not return their calls or emails and if I ask if she can talk to person X she is usually rude about it.

    The organization tried to give her a little flexibility to work from home, but she can’t because she doesn’t have an internet connection at home. I’m worried that if this is allowed to continue, it will damage our organization’s reputation.

    I am going to try to talk to my boss either today or Monday because although I understand that people can struggle with chronic illness, that really doesn’t seem to be her case. She has a part-time employee but instead of letting this person actually help, she sticks her with clerical and data entry work that a volunteer could do. (We have volunteers who ask to do that type of work and they system they would use would not access sensitive info and of course our MIS department would only give them necessary access).

    What kind of wording should I use? I don’t want to come across as nosy but I don’t want to be spoken to rudely by her because she can’t be bothered to come to work on a consistent basis and respond to requests in a reasonable amount of time.

    1. fposte*

      This sounds to me like two problems: your co-worker was rude to you, and your co-worker is dropping the ball on contact with outside partners and stakeholders. I’m not seeing specifics on the rudeness so I can’t really offer guidance, but I usually wouldn’t complain to my boss about a one-off rudeness from somebody at my level or higher.

      Dropping the ball, however, is a reportable issue. I would bring that to my boss and ask that the contact person become [staffer who could do it but is being underused] because right now your org is burning goodwill with its communication problems. This doesn’t have to be a discussion about Jane and chronic illness and patterns of being out blah blah blah; it’s that Jane’s reachability just isn’t compatible with the needs of being contact person, so let’s make somebody else contact person before everybody hates us, okay?

  120. Clashing Pants*

    I’ve spent the past 3 years being fairly career dedicated. I’ve progressed a lot in my position. I say “yes” whenever the boss needs someone to pinch hit on something. I volunteered to help establish and lead an employee resource group. Last year, I threw myself into a year-long project, and let myself go, and have been very cautious about that this year, but I still find myself bumped up against the 10-week limit to accrue vacation and doing other job-over-life behaviors.

    Then, last week I lost out on a promotion that would have taken me from being “she’s one of our strong players” to being the person who says things like that about other people. IT WAS A HUGE RELIEF. I realized I’ve been chasing accomplishments that I don’t really want. I’m just not that person. You’ll have to trust me that this isn’t just sour grapes–I’ve been conflicted about my career choices most of my adult life, but a few years ago, I decided to put my energy into my career and see how it would go. Now I know!

    What I’m not sure about is stepping back. I don’t want to do all the things I’ve been raising my hand for, but I don’t know how to start saying no. I really can’t change to a lower responsibility position, but there are plenty of people in my role who just do less. Any advice would be appreciated!

    1. LaterKate*

      Are you interested in dropping the things you are currently doing, or just not wanting to pick up more? I think it will be easier to decline more work being added by declining in the moment, citing all the other commitments you have on your plate. If you’re looking to move currently stuff off your plate, I guess it would depend on the reason. Have you gotten too far away from the original job duties? Are you overloaded and working 60 hour weeks in a job that usually requires 40? Are some of your job duties being neglected because of all the extra work youve taken on? Any of these could be a jumping off point for the conversation.

      1. Anna Held*

        This is good advice. Also, make a schedule of all that you do and time spent. I think it’ll help you, plus you’ll have ammunition if you need to show your boss that you’re overbooked. Come up with a plan for phasing out old work, finding others to whom you could hand it off, ending the project naturally, etc. Having something concrete to wards can help.

    2. Anna Held*

      Practice what you’ll say so it’ll roll of the tongue naturally. Role play if necessary. “I can’t, I already have X to do.” “I’m sorry, I can’t take on more responsibilities just now.” “No, that won’t fit into my schedule.”

      Most of this is mental, really — reminding yourself that this isn’t what you want, that there are other things to spend your time on. You need to stop yourself from volunteering all the time. And do little things to stop yourself, like wait a couple days before replying to that email asking for help, or having a mantra of “It’s someone else’s turn, It’s ok to have free time.” Even little things like not making eye contact in a meeting when they’re asking if anyone’s interested in this role will help.

      One thing: someone else might be grateful for the advancement opportunity. This isn’t just something you need to do for yourself, it’ll give others the chance to shine. And if you’re a happy, healthy employee who does their core work very well, you’re far more likely to stay and be of greater value to your company. You owe them no more than that. Just keep practicing “I’m sorry, I can’t”!

      Good luck!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      It’s one thing to decide to stop doing something.

      The other half of that decision is to decide what you WILL do. It’s much easier to say, “Nope, I can’t do X because now I am focused on Y.”

      It’s a basic human need to have goals. Short term/long term, does not matter, goals are very important for many reasons including good health. It’s fine to stop doing something because it’s not working out, the problem comes in when we don’t decide where we will go next. It sounds like you want to stay put where you are. So perhaps your goal is to be the best teapot maker in the company. Goals do not have to be hard or be elaborate, but it’s important to nail down what your new goal is. Once you have the clarity of being the best teapot maker in the company it becomes more apparent that you do not need to volunteer your time/energy for raising money to Rehome Unwanted Teapots. And then you can simply say, “no, thanks” when asked to volunteer.

  121. Orange*

    I sent AAM an email with a question a while ago, and she answered my overly-detailed letter privately, but I just want to update/gush about good news!
    I broke my leg a month ago – my first broken bone, then my first ever surgery. I’m an undergrad at an unpaid internship this semester with a big non-profit, and I discussed with my supervisor having a 1.5 wks off at home to recover post-surgery. I thought it would be long enough, but I was soooo wrong. Lots of complications, lots of pain, lots of exhaustion. I ended up staying home for almost 4 wks, and during that time my anxiety coupled with post-surgical depression (which is a real thing!) led me to not communicating as well as I should have when I realized 1.5 wks wasn’t going to be enough. Like, “emailing at 3am the day before I was supposed to return that I wouldn’t be in”-level of poor communication. I was terrified of making them angry or upset with me, so I put off communicating, which I knew only made things worse, but y’all know how the cycle of anxiety goes.
    They always gushed about my work in the beginning, but I was afraid I ruined my chance of a good relationship with the company because of this flakiness.
    I asked Alison how I should offer to make up for this absence & how to apologize, etc. I offered to stay on longer past the original end date so I wouldn’t leave work unfinished and made sure to tell my supervisor that I was sorry and I realized I dropped the ball. So far I’ve been back 3 days and all my coworkers have been so, so understanding and kind. No one’s been angry or upset, or at least they haven’t seemed like it. My supervisor is away for a conference, so I don’t know what she’ll say when she gets back, but I’ve been so relieved that I’m not in hot water like I thought.
    I’m just so grateful of my workplace’s understanding, which is lightyears more accepting and patient than any professor I’ve ever had. I don’t intend on ever repeating this experience, but I’m just so happy and touched it turned out okay.
    To everyone with coworkers/employees who are ill or injured – patience with them goes a long way!

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      To be fair I’m betting they all knew you wouldn’t be back in 1.5 weeks. The only person you were fooling was yourself.

    2. Kbug*

      I’m so glad it is going well and that you’re feeling better! This is part of an internship, too, learning how to cope in professional situations with unexpected issues- you just happened to get a super intense crash course in it! Especially if the org has had undergrad interns in the past, they know this is part of the deal, and they’re probably just super impressed with how you came back, apologized, and have offered a plan to complete your work- it shows a real maturity and understanding.

  122. Margot Terror of the Schoolbus*

    You guys! I submitted an application to what I thought was a pie-in-the-sky job posting– focused on my favorite parts of my role, making a jump to the kind of org I want to be working in (and a very highly regarded org at that), in the city where I want to be. Being a long-distance applicant with a ridiculously under-baked title (responsibilities: Teapot Data and Reporting Specialist; title: Teapot Associate) I figured I would never hear from them but should take a shot anyway. Three days after I applied they called to set up a phone screening! I have been super worried about my current title torpedoing my job search, so even if this job doesn’t pan out it’s at least encouraging to hear back about a role that isn’t Associate or Coordinator.

  123. guilty anon*

    The past three weeks, I’ve been covering for my boss while they are dealing with a personal crisis. I have been complimented by my boss, their relatives, and several other higher ups in our org on how well I’m handling things and I appreciate that my work is being acknowledged, but part of me wants to say “great, I’m glad you appreciate me, how about you show me your appreciation in my paycheck?”

    And then I feel guilty.

  124. Detective Rosa Diaz*

    The job I have now was misrepresented to me (was told I could work remote, I cannot. Told hours were flexible, they are not. And now I am non-exempt so they definitely are not.) This is all annoying and there are lots of other annoying things, but the one that I wondered about was cell phones.

    Nothing was said to me before I started but my boss wanted me to put my cell phone number on my business cards. I said “Why, no one would be calling me there?” She said “Everyone uses their cell phones.” and referenced people needing to call me on the weekend (this was before I was non exempt). I pushed back and it was a really awkward conversation.

    The thing is they don’t pay cell phone bills. Am I crazy to think that’s an annoying request. 1. I feel like it should be clear in the interview stages if everyone has to use their cell for business purposes. 2. I feel if you have to, I guess they can require it but I do think they should pay for it.

    Thoughts?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      If you are expected to use a cell phone for business purposes on a regular basis then they need to either provide you with a company issued phone or give you a stipend towards paying your bill.

      So, no, I don’t think you’re crazy.

    2. Incognito*

      RUN!!!!

      That’s awful for you, and I don’t think you are being unreasonable at all. If a business expects employees to use cell phones for business, it ought to provide them with one, and provide one separate from her own personal number if the employee so desires. I personally do not give my cell out except to my immediate office collegues who might need to reach me when I am working remotely. I do not put it on my business card or any other business correspondence. I do not give it to people outside of my immediate team. If I had a work cell, I would do that, but not my personal cell that I pay for out of my own pocket. No way.

      1. Detective Rosa Diaz*

        THANK YOU. They wanted me to do this at a trade show where I would be handing my card out willy-nilly and I was not down with that AT ALL. Even after I said that I had had issues in the past with people having my number that I did not want, they still pushed. I thought it was so strange and gross. I mean, the issues were just creeps but nothing serious but what if I had a stalker? Would they still have made me?

        ALSO my boss has access to everyone’s email in the office (she is not the head boss) and just reads all of it. I don’t really care if she reads my work emails and there might be reason for her to read mine but she like reads the accountant’s emails. GET A HOBBY. It is very weird.

        2. Michelle*

          Sounds like a micromanaging boss with no boundaries and too much time on their hands. I would not put my cell number on card and the fact that they have time to actually read everyone’s email??

          1. Detective Rosa Diaz*

            YEP and she asked me if could copy her and then every email she sent me back a slight “correction” – I have been here 6 months! Everyone loves me.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      UGH, ad agencies love to do this. I’ve always pushed back on including my cell in my email sig or business cards, and I usually get away with it because I’m a copywriter, but account executives never do. And then the freaking client has your cell forever! (Some account people consider this a plus, because then they can maintain the relationship even if they move on to other agencies, but I have no interest.)

      Anyway, it doesn’t seem abnormal to me in my industry, but it sure is annoying.

  125. Kbug*

    Hey, I’m soliciting opinions here. I’m in graduate school going for a PhD. And everyone drinks alcohol, all the time. Socializing, department events, conferences, and the other day there was a seminar style discussion digression about drinking alcohol to write papers, with several people stating they “write drunk and edit sober.” Someone mentioned adding liquor to coffee in an attempt to balance the effects, etc.

    Is this normal or typical or okay? I’m like wow you need to talk to somebody, while everyone else is like haha no problem.

    I don’t drink alcohol, except for some wine on Shabbat every so often. I have tons of alcoholics and addicts in my family, and I’ve made a conscious choice to NOT engage in socializing around alcohol because of this. This means I’m missing out on some social opportunities, which I feel like might reflect negatively…but I also don’t want to stand in a bar surrounded by my coworkers and even a few professors drinking 3-7 drinks per event and getting all sloppy and icky (I went to a few events to try it out, I’m not just assuming).

    1. Manders*

      Okay? Nope. Normal and typical? Sadly, yes. I spent my early 20s dating someone in a PhD program and I was friends with a lot of his peers. There was an intense stigma in the department against people who admitted that they were struggling with mental health problems, financial problems, or social issues caused by the demands of grad school. A lot of people were self-medicating with alcohol and it was very unhealthy.

      Plus, the dominant culture in the country my partner was studying relies heavily on binge drinking for social bonding. There were some times when he was studying abroad that he did get extra opportunities to connect with people because he was able to drink large amounts of alcohol. It was a weird time.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      Well, I would say it is, regrettably, normal/typical.

      I’m with you on the not really okay part.

      And unfortunately, it doesn’t necessarily get any better as you get older. I see some posts on Facebook from friends or relatives who are 40+ and *I* think the “wow, you really should talk to somebody” and “Yeah, joking about your obvious alcoholism isn’t funny” And I hold this opinion as someone who did drink copious amounts of alcohol in my 20’s.

      So you’re not alone, but you’re going to have to learn to occasionally show up for 30 minutes or so (hopefully early on, before the sloppiness sets in!) every now and then. Dogs- real or imaginary- are a good excuse for why you have to hurry on home.

    3. animaniactoo*

      My experience is that it’s rampant but it’s also not the only “normal”, and basically as long as you refrain from judging them for it, and simply do the “not my thing” it won’t be too much of an issue. You will have to work harder to be social to make up for the lack of bonding on their clearly preferred terms, but it’s usually possible to do. Just don’t go overboard on that direction either. You’re looking for a nice comfy middle where you bring in a treat now and then, available for chit-chat about stuff including what happened last night on Survivor, but not mowing anyone down to talk about it.

    4. MegaMoose, Esq*

      This might be grad school generally or your field in specific. Some fields (like law) are pretty boozy – it might be good, bad, or neutral depending on the person, but it’s good to know if you’re in one of those fields and figure out your coping strategies. To be clear, this only applies if you see a personal or professional benefit to fitting in – if you don’t, that’s your prerogative. I think the main thing to keep in mind is that, in my experience, being a light drinker for whatever reason isn’t generally seen as a big deal, but being known a teetotaler can cause problems (I’m not saying that’s RIGHT, just that it happens – some people will view you as weird and/or judgmental even if you’re not). I know people who go to these kind of events, walk around with a drink in hand, and dump it after an hour or two and leave before things get super boozy.

      1. MegaMoose, Esq*

        I missed that you said you actively choose not to socialize around alcohol, so disregard that back half of my comment. Sorry!

    5. Temperance*

      I went to law school, and I’m a practicing attorney. Drinking is pretty common in my industry, and was even more common during law school.

      I don’t think that drinking often makes you an alcoholic, FWIW, but I understand that if you grew up around alcoholics, you would want to avoid it. I’m wondering if you might be able to check out these social opportunities and then gracefully bow out early, once everyone has had 2 drinks or so? Not drinking isn’t a bit deal, but temperance (lol) can be.

      1. FiveWheels*

        Yep, my experience of law is very boozy, but very few actual alcoholics. And unless anyone is driving drunk, which is pariah-making behaviour, I don’t see anything wrong with it.

        “3 – 7 drinks” wouldn’t even be considered proper drinking, that would just be a sociable level.

        1. Kbug*

          I’m curious because I obviously view that as excessive- what do you consider to be “proper drinking?” Since I grew up with no healthy understanding of alcohol consumption, I utilize the CDC and NIH definitions (also my academic tendencies…) which puts this amount at a concerning, level- moderate drinking is one drink per day for women, four or more over about two hours for women is binge drinking, heavy drinking is 8 or more drinks per week for women.

          Since there’s usually multiple events per week, plus people talking about how they drink daily for paper writing and to sleep (which I’m hoping is an exaggeration or a trying to be cool issue to some degree, like another poster suggested) it seems concerning to me. But, I’m totally open to the idea that perhaps research and the standard culture aren’t matching up here, and is making it seem more concerning to me.

          1. FiveWheels*

            Where I am in the UK, drinking culture is a thing in which one of the main points of going out is to get drunk. As in – stoners can smoke pot because they enjoy the taste of smoke or socialising, but for the most part they probably find the effects of pot itself to be pleasant.

            If I was meeting a friend for dinner, I’d think three cocktails each would probably be about right and wouldn’t really be drunk.

            If I was having dinner in with one person, and we were drinking, at least a bottle of wine would be gone at the end.

            Thinking to the last two times I went out mainly to go “proper drinking” from about 5pm to 2am I had, hmm,….

            25 units and a horrific hangover
            15 units and zero hangover

            If you’re vomiting, starting fights, being argumentative, incoherent, offensive, chatting up people who clearly have no interest in you etc…. Too drunk, get out.

            If you drink the same amount but are entertaining, yay, stay at the party.

            If you wake up feeling terrible, learn your lesson. If you wake up feeling okay, with no blackouts or truly terrible decisions to deal with, there’s no problem.

            The UK has no fall concept of “legally drunk”, either. You can be over the limit for driving a car but that’s it. And “drunk and disorderly” isn’t so much criminalising public drunkenness, as it is a way to let the cops arrest obnoxious drunks before they got out of hand.

            Years ago the prime minister’s underage son was found, drunk, in a gutter. Nobody was shocked that a teenager was that drunk, nobody was shocked that the PM couldn’t stop his son drinking, but everyone was HORRIFIED that the kid’s friends left him. I guess that sums up British drinking culture quite well. It’s not a moral issue to drink, but don’t leave your friend in the damn gutter.

        2. Temperance*

          Yep. My classmate who brought minibar bottles in her purse, and drank all day? She was an alcoholic. The rest of us drank a lot, but didn’t need to day drink before classes.

    6. CS*

      It’s normal enough. I live in a college town, and while I’m not a student, there is a lot of drinking amongst PhD students and (I’d assume) beyond to some extent. Whether or not it’s okay is… well, lots of people get by with heavy drinking, I suppose it’s an opinion where you draw the line. That’s really not too important for how you act, I think. From a professional standpoint, it’s probably best to not actually tell people you think they have a problem, unless they are close friends. The chances of offending them and burning bridges isn’t worth it, especially since alcoholics don’t stop drinking just because someone calls them out on it.

      You might be missing out on some socializing benefits (people go more out of their way to help friends), but it sounds like you’re not comfortable going, so that’s just how it goes.

      You can also keep in mind that this is the sort of environment you would want to avoid in the future, and try and have your next job be somewhere a little less alcohol-fueled. It sounds worse there than it is here, so I do think that’s an option for you.

    7. LadyKelvin*

      Honestly, there are probably a few people who are alcoholics, but many of the people who say things like “write drunk edit sober” are majorly exaggerating and unless you witness them drinking all the time, they probably aren’t. I know we all made jokes like that, and I might have drank a glass of wine while still at my computer in the evenings writing, but mostly of us were joking as we felt the only way to “survive” grad school was by drinking. Our social lives did revolve around drinking (there was a bar on campus ) but our work was mostly alcohol free.

    8. Bye Academia*

      Echoing the others to say that, while I agree it’s not great, it’s really normal. The people in my grad program drank like freshmen in college discovering alcohol for the first time. There were frequent happy hours, and most people who attended went to get wasted. Grad school is rough and people do not always deal with it well.

      I do like to drink, but not that often and only a moderate amount. On days I didn’t want to drink, I’d usually go to happy hour for the first hour or two and quietly duck out when people started to get sloppy. That way I’d get the benefits of the social opportunities without being too uncomfortable.

    9. Emily*

      In my grad program, there are plenty of events that have alcohol (happy hours, conferences, etc.), but people’s actual drinking habits vary pretty drastically. There are a few teetotalers, some light/occasional drinkers, some people who are into beer/other types of alcohol but still consume within healthy limits, and a few people who probably do have a drinking problem.

      As a light drinker, I’m honestly kind of fascinated by all of these comments about how 3-7 drinks is normal. Two is enough to get me pretty buzzed (sometimes just one if I’m hungry or dehydrated or drink it quickly).

  126. animaniactoo*

    I’m apparently graduating in responsibilities and tied between appreciation for the recognition and some nerves over what comes next.

    I’ve always graduated to a level of importance based on competence and skill in my previous roles (here and elsewhere), but I’ve also only ever had a tacit level of authority and some of that is shifting now to official authority.

    I believe in people being important but not necessary to a company, in part because it just places too much responsibility on the employee in a way that they’re almost never being appropriately compensated for. So I’ve been a necessity at points and within my department I’ve worked hard to make myself less a necessity alongside our efforts to create more organization and standard handling procedure kind of stuff.

    One of the things I’ve managed to pull off is the first set of actual working templates for all of our packaging and product “core” items and new development. At first my attitude was that anybody could update these, I was only getting it set up to begin with, but we’ve gotten to the point that these are being so relied on and they’re so specific and accurate to each that we need to know who is making any changes to them. Despite my saying that others can update them, I’m the only one who ever really has, so that responsibility will become formalized now.

    Based on that, I’m now picking up the temporary responsibility for final approval on all packaging that goes out of my division until the person who is normally in charge of it comes back. She’s had a serious family emergency and we’re not sure how long she’ll be out of the office, and I was called into a meeting yesterday to be part of who is handling her stuff while she is. I get why it’s me – it’s completely logical in terms of my attention to detail and familiarity with what is supposed to be on the packaging based on working on the templates and continually working with her for each round of changes in response to regulations being passed, etc.

    I feel confident that I’ll be able to do it just fine. I guess what I’m struggling with is that I’ve been *that* important to a company before and it was not a good situation. In my head I’m struggling with separating having that kind of authority within the company (temporary or otherwise) and the idea that if I have it means things are so out of control that I have more responsibility than I should.

  127. Incognito*

    No change in my work environment situation, except that my manager has been very nice and outwardly agreeable lately. That doesn’t really cut it anymore, but at least it’s tolerable, and I can get my work done. So I’ll take it! Unfortunately, I’ve just been made aware of a new steaming pile of turds available for the next available fan. :( I’m having good conversations with recruiters and am confident I will come out of this okay, no matter how hard the next rounds of poop hit the fan.

  128. Confused*

    I have a really weird, pressing issue that I’m not sure how to deal with.

    My direct manager is going to be out for the next 8 weeks at least due to emergency surgery. We’re a marketing department of two, so this means that I’m having to take on all of her work, in addition to my own, during potentially the busiest and most high-profile time in our company’s history. I didn’t ask for more money, but my GM offered me more compensation for the next 8 weeks because I’m taking on more work. She also mentioned a potential pay raise at the end of this busy time, which coincides with my 1 year work anniversary for the company. However, she came back to me the next week and said that they would prefer for the compensation to come in the form of paying off an expense for me (she suggested my phone bill, which is actually only about $50/month). She said that they don’t want to do the additional paperwork and have the “headache” of formalizing it and putting it in my contract.

    I feel really weird about this. I took a huge pay cut to come work here (15k), so I’m working below what is considered a “living” wage in my city. I’m doing some specialized work that wasn’t in my initial contract, like graphic design, so I feel like my compensation is already too low. An additional $50/month doesn’t really cover the huge amount of work that I’m going to be taking on for the next 8 weeks. Also, I find it really strange that this would come in the form of paying an expense instead of doing it properly through my paycheque. Is this a normal practice? I honestly feel a bit insulted by the proposal. I didn’t ask for more compensation, but if that’s what they want to do, I feel like it should be formalized properly. Does anyone have any advice?

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      No, not normal, and Imma gonna guess the change in tune has something to do with benefits/taxes.

      1. Tau*

        This was my first thought – I am not an accountant nor a lawyer, but that sounds shady in the tax dodging sense.

        Honestly, I’d consider going “I’m sorry, I can’t accept that arrangement” (hopefully someone else will have scripts?) Of course, you’ll have to deal with the fact that that might very well mean you don’t get any extra money at all.

        1. Anna Held*

          This. My non-profit is happily paying me for extra hours I’m working temporarily. If their small HR dept can handle it, so can yours. I’d get in writing what work you’ll prioritize, how much you’ll get, hours involved, everything. And demand help! This is unreasonable.

    2. animaniactoo*

      In addition to what Jesse said, you really REALLY do not want to let them have responsibility for your phone bill and then some future argument about who the phone belongs to.

      2. Confused*

        I purchased my phone outright several years ago and it’s not tied to my plan, so I don’t know how they could claim it as theirs… There are more pressing things that they could (and should) be paying for in terms of expenses. I use my personal computer for all of my work and have to pay for my own design software.

        However, paying for expenses isn’t the same to me as giving me a pay raise. I’d rather have that documented in the correct way. Honestly, I never asked for an increase and now the burden has been placed on me to come up with a solution for them. I don’t even know what they’re looking at numbers-wise in terms of compensation, but $50 for doing the work of Marketing Coordinator, Marketing Manager, and Graphic Designer doesn’t really seem reasonable.

        1. animaniactoo*

          No, it’s really not reasonable at all. Among other things, that workload will be unmanageable. Like 60-70 hour weeks unmanageable if they’re expecting even just the highest priority work to get done.

          I would push back on this very hard. At a minimum, if you’re taking over her work, they should hire somebody (part time might work) to do some of your role as the junior for the short term.

          And you should absolutely have them pay for the design software. If you’re using a cloud suite, that’s not a minor expense if you have to pay for it yourself.

    3. Mike C.*

      Yeah, that’s really weird.

      We certainly have temporary upgrades (temp managers and whatnot) where pay is increased, but it’s through your paycheck because why would you do it any other way. The whole thing seems sketchy.

      You know, unless you can get them to pay your rent/mortgage/car/student loans or something. Then it might be worth it to deal with the weirdness. There are still tax implications though.

    4. AdAgencyChick*

      Did you and the GM discuss how *much* she was going to offer you to take on this extra work? If you did, and the amount was considerably more than $100, I’d politely thank her for that offer, but two months of phone bill adds up to $100, and we talked about $1000 or whatever that is.

      I totally get why your GM doesn’t want to do the paperwork of upping your rate for an 8-week period. But she needs to either suck it up and do the paperwork, or find another way to pay you the extra. Ad agencies often give spot bonuses in the form of Amex gift cards, so that they’re off the books, so maybe that’s something you could ask for?

        1. Natalie*

          They do. Any cash or cash equivalent is taxable income regardless of amount, as are gifts if they are worth more than a “de minimis” amount (generally considered $20-25).

  129. idek*

    How long is it reasonable to wait for a meeting with the Big Boss before sending a follow-up email?

    I work part-time, remotely, for an organization. I had a chat with my boss on March 31 about maybe going full-time, and she was supportive & said she’d schedule a meeting with the Big Boss. (Who is in charge of hiring.) My boss touched base on April 11 and apologized for the delay and said she’d try to get a Skype on the books. I haven’t heard anything further. (Though I work twenty hours a week for them, I hear from my boss at most once a week; usually once every two-three weeks.)

    When is it appropriate for me to ask (politely!) about the status of the meeting? (Does the delay mean the answer is no?)

    1. animaniactoo*

      No, it means there’s no firm answer yet, whether that’s because your boss hasn’t followed up or because they’re still debating it. I would give it another week and then ask “Hi, I just wanted to check in on whether there was any progress about the possibility of me becoming full-time?” A casual check-in because 3 weeks to a month really isn’t an overly long timeline for figuring out whether that kind of switch is feasible.

  130. Ramona Flowers*

    This morning’s letter about routine thank-yous reminded me of something I’d been thinking of posting about anyway.

    I’m not going to do anything about this, I’m just interested in your opinions.

    I’m in a fairly new job. We use freelancers here and there including Wakeen, who edits a quarterly publication for us. (I was going to fictionalise with teapot designs, but I think this is field-specific.)

    I worked in media and communications for years before gradually making a career change to something in the non-profit world. I have lots of experience of working on (and in some cases competitively pitching for and launching) contract publications e.g. customer magazines, membership magazines, alumni magazines, etc both in an agency and as a freelancer working for agencies and also directly for clients.

    So I understand what sort of client expectations are and are not realistic and reasonable. (I have Stories. One involves a client wanting a junior account exec to procure cocaine for them.) On the other hand, I also understand that client relationships matter and being responsive and courteous, within reason, is an established norm.

    Nobody else in my team has worked freelance or in an agency – we’re not a comms team, although my grandboss happens to have lots of in-house comms experience.

    A couple of months after I joined, my manager went on holiday and forwarded me some content to check, amend and approve for Wakeen in her absence. This was my first time on the client side in this situation. A few very straightforward amends were needed. I sent them with a brief, polite email where I introduced myself and said it was fine to go ahead once those changes were made. I didn’t say: “Please let me know you received this,” as doing that is a basic norm.

    Wakeen evidently got my email as the changes were done, but he never replied. I mentioned this in passing to my manager and she said Wakeen was probably busy getting the project finished.

    I would NEVER have ignored an intro like that from a contact on the client side, and my agency clients would have been very unhappy if I’d done that to their end clients. Maybe he just forgot, but you need to be careful not to do that in this type of work. So, from my experience in that field and of that kind of relationship, I found this rude. Personally I really appreciated, and nurtured, reasonable and pleasant clients. I assumed all competent freelancers did.

    I also don’t trust people who completely ignore emails about things like sign-offs, as in my experience they often turn out to be people who don’t read instructions properly or miss important things. And having been pleasant and polite, I guess I just expected basic courtesy in return.

    However my manager, who only has experience from the client side, didn’t seem to see this as a big deal when I mentioned it, perhaps because she’s not approaching it as a vendor-client relationship. So maybe she doesn’t realise what’s normal to expect. Or maybe I’m actually wrong to think it matters?

    This isn’t an ego thing – it’s not about Being Unacknowledged As A Person. I just think it’s unprofessional, and also that client sign-offs should categorically be acknowledged. I appreciate I only have this first impression to go on, but this is kind of why first impressions matter.

    Wakeen does a good job on the actual work so I’m not going to bring this up again. But I’d be interested to know what you think. (And I’m fully prepared for that to be: get over yourself.) I’m not really interested in speculating about the many potential reasons for why he didn’t reply as that bit is outside my control. Just wondering if it seems unprofessional to anyone else.

    It is at least nice to realise my manager is a super laidback client. I’d be mortified if she was a nightmare one!

    1. NW Mossy*

      In my experience, how people handle email is very much a style thing and not a situation where it pays to read a particular intent into into what people do/don’t do.

      Personally, I’m the sort of person who doesn’t expect an acknowledgement, and I only send them if the sender specifically requested one or I want to set an expectation (“Great! I’ll have X to you by Tuesday.”). My basic line of thinking is “I’m busy, you’re busy, we can both assume this is handled satisfactorily unless one of us pipes up to indicate otherwise.” It happens because I use email at least in part as a task list – stuff that’s in my inbox is there because it’s a to-do. Emails that don’t require action on my part simply become part of this wash of communications that I have to wade through to find the action items.

      You’ll notice that in that whole big long explanation, there’s nothing in there about the person on the other side of these interactions. This, I think, is typical – we tend to assume that others are like us until they behave in a way we wouldn’t. I, as an “email is for tasks, not relationships” sort of person assumes that others are that way too. Someone like you, who seems to be a “email is for relationships” sort, would view me as a total jerk if email was the only way we communicated. Neither’s wrong; it’s just style.

      And for the future, give Wakeen a call. You might find he’s a very different guy on the phone.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Actually, there was lots about the person on the other side because I explained at some length about how I’d been on his side which informed my expectations. I don’t assume others are like me. I sort of feel like you didn’t quite understand the scenario.

        1. NW Mossy*

          For clarity’s sake, I meant my big long explanation, not yours. Should have indicated that, and illustrative about how my myopia (“Ramona knows what I’m talking about, surely! I need clarify nothing, la la la!”) in writing might not have landed the same way had we been chatting face to face.

          I should further clarify that I don’t think you’re using email just for relationship-building, but rather that it’s a piece of how you use it in that you’re seeking to show your correspondent who you are as a person in what you choose to talk about (shared experience) and what you hope to receive back (acknowledgment of commonality).

    2. AMPG*

      I think your point about a reply being an important part of contractor-client communications is a good one, but I don’t think it follows that, because he didn’t do that, he was automatically rude or unprofessional. There’s quite a bit of leeway in accepted email etiquette, and while it might be smarter for his career development to do what you were expecting, it doesn’t make him rude to make a different choice.

  131. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Most fun job you might like to do, go!

    I would like to be a camp counselor in summers at the camp I went to as a kid; Concordia Language Villages’ German immersion. I mean, tons of nature, a break from tech, using language skills, and tons of activities with fun, smart, geeky kids. It’s basically posh nature camp; completely in German. With high school and college credit options.

    Honestly, part of the whole reason I want to have kids is so I can take them there for “family camp” weekends and send them off on their own too. I’d give my literal arm, leg, and firstborn to be a kid and experience it again.

    All other considerations aside, what would be your best/ideal/most fun job?

    2. Andraste*

      I would loooove to work at some sort of animal rehab/rescue/sanctuary. I worked at a zoo in high school so I know it’s not all glamour and playing with animals… you clean up a lot of poop and you will get bit/scratched/etc. But it would do that in a heartbeat!

      I also think I’d really enjoy being a personal chef. Not a restaurant chef, too fast-paced for me, but as a personal chef there could be a lot of variety to your cooking and it would more at a more reasonable, relaxed pace.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        I know several people who do this. My buddy cooks for a few insanely wealthy families in Aspen who live there only part-time. He works about 9 months out of the year, makes thoroughly decent money, and skis about 60 days a year.

      2. T3k*

        By far, still my most favorite job was my first job, working at a horse stables. It was no picnic (cleaning horse crap, stepping in horse crap, carrying several gallon buckets everyday, having my toes stepped on by a horse, working in 100+ heat index in jeans) but I loved working with the horses and getting to ride whenever I wanted to.

    3. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

      I would love to be a cat-socializer.
      Basically, play with cats and kittens all day to keep them used to human company and just giving the TLC.
      (Admittedly, I’d like to forgo the cleaning duties with that >.>)

    4. TCO*

      I’d love to be a wilderness travel guide. I know that the sacrifices the job requires are not truly a fit for me, but if I could do it part-time or something… I do some as a volunteer and that scratches the itch a little bit.

    5. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I could do a lot of stuff, all other considerations aside, and at various times I’ve dabbled in all of these activities: wilderness guide, taco truck operator, travel photographer, environmental journalist, cookbook author, food writer, science educator, climatologist.

    6. Manders*

      I have this fantasy about working on a film crew. In reality I would hate the long hours and the high-strung personalities, but something appeals to me about having the technical skills to help people create art.

      I’ve also tabled at science fiction conventions as a favor to friends and I admit that I’ve dreamed about making that a full-time gig as a self-published author. But I also love my health insurance, weekends off, steady paycheck, and healthy distance from con crud.

    7. animaniactoo*

      Mini golf course cashier. All the free rounds I want. People generally relaxed/laid back/happy.

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        I played mini golf as a kid, and on one hole, there was a big rock in the middle of the green, that you had to hit around. It was mostly-round, but one bottom edge of it didn’t quite touch the ground.

        I hit ball ——> can’t find it ——> look —–> nothing ——–> look more ——> nothing ——-> look EVERYWHERE——> where the hell is my ball? ———> look at tiny gap under rock just large enough to fit ball ——-> ball is stuck ——–> REALLY stuck ———-> laugh so hard I fall over, choking.

    8. justsomeone*

      Dream career is food critic or someone just pays me to read. Not review, just read. I’d love to get paid to just sit around and read.

    9. LadyKelvin*

      Wildlife photographer. I am one in hobby form, but to get paid to take amazing photographs and see amazing animals that would be awesome. I’m a marine biologist so I get to do that somewhat, but the photography is right now for my own benefit. And its not what I do 100% of the time.

      Also, I was just telling my colleagues yesterday that I’d love to go to culinary school. I don’t want to be a chef but I love cooking and baking and I want to desperately learn how to do it like a professional. I’m self taught so I know I don’t do everything correctly, even though it usually tastes good. My colleagues helpfully suggested that I use them as guinea pigs and they’ll happily eat anything I want to make them.

    11. Jillociraptor*

      I always wished I had gone to Concordia Language Villages! It sounded SO FUN.

      I would love to be an architect. I stopped taking math before really getting into calculus, so there’s no future there for me, but I think I’d love that kind of problem solving and design. I also think I’d enjoy being a school principal or the president of a small college. The combination of managing adults but impacting students really appeals, and I actually enjoy working in politically complex environments.

      1. Dr. KMnO4*

        Thank goodness there are all kinds of people in this world, because school principal/college president is my nightmare job!

        1. Jillociraptor*

          Ha! I’m assisting with the search committee for a job that there is no quantity of money that a person could pay me to do, and it’s kind of fun to be immersed in the experiences and expertise of people who proactively want it!

          1. Dr. KMnO4*

            That does sound like fun. I would be fascinated by their answers about why they wanted the job.

    12. Dr. KMnO4*

      Knitting pattern tester. I’m a process knitter* and I’d love a gig where someone gave me the yarn, needles, and pattern and told me to try it out.
      *I generally care more about doing the knitting than the result of the knitting.

      1. Emily*

        Ooh, that’s a good one! I really like crafting (felt softies, bracelets made from embroidery floss, etc.), but once I’ve finished making a lot of my things, I’m at a loss for what to do with them.

        1. So Very Anonymous*

          OMG this looks awesome for someone like me who enjoys knitting but doesn’t really understand the whole “gauge” thing and so just wants to knit oblong things that don’t have to be measured perfectly (and I live in the South so don’t need THAT many scarves…). I made a blanket for a friend’s new baby that I’d love to make again. Thank you!

    13. SQL Coder Cat*

      My husband and I joke about starting a non-profit promoting the use of comic books for encouraging young readers. It would be glorious.

    15. Celeste*

      I’d like to run a retreat house for quilters. I might also open it to people who are traveling in for a family wedding and want gathering space. Sort of a specialized innkeeper, I guess.

      1. Hrovitnir*

        That is kind of adorable. I hope that doesn’t sound patronising, that’s just an excellent mental image – I like how you think.

    17. Hrovitnir*

      This is a pretty boring response, but like, biomedical research (ie: what I’m working on getting into) but with job security. Heh, I guess that’s a made up job. If you could get paid to do good research just for the sake of it (in magical never-gonna-happen land), I would be ecstatic.

      Wildlife photographer, as LadyKelvin said, is pretty awesome. Still inconvenient with the travelling and requires a lot of patience and expensive gear, but being able to make a living off studying and photographing wild animals would be amazing.

    19. ..Kat..*

      I would love to work on an ODOT (Oregon Department of Transportation) response truck. They respond to non-emergency traffic problems. For example, I slid on ice on the highway and got my car embedded in a snow bank and could not get my car out. No injuries, just stuck. I was going to become a traffic impediment as rush hour started. Also, I might cause more accidents as people tried to get around me. Neither police nor EMS was needed. The ODOT response truck pulled up, towed me out of the snow bank, and I was good to go. The driver told me he loved his job. Less paperwork and mess (think blood, vomit, drunk people, etc) than police, fire, and EMS. And people were happy to see him. And he drove a really cool truck!

  132. jamlady*

    Looks like my comment from a while ago got lost in the interweb ether. Summary:

    – Gave notice on Monday after signing an offer and going through a background check, only to be told Monday afternoon I need to do a drug test. Fine, did it on Wed, never done drugs in my life but I take a lot of medication – how long does it take for the results of a rapid urine test to get to the company?
    – HR told me I’d be receiving paperwork by Tue at the latest and to reach out if I don’t get it. Didn’t get it, have since reached out twice and no response. She told me this before realizing I needed a drug test – could be they’re waiting on that before sending me documents?
    – HR has gone totally radio silent and I have already given notice and turned down another position. I’m really starting to freak out.

    1. KiteFlier*

      Routine pre-employment drug tests do not typically screen for anything except illegal drugs. Turnaround time is based on the lab and how busy they are. It could be a day, it could be a week. They are likely waiting for those results for the paperwork to be sent – what paperwork, though? I hope you signed your offer letter before giving notice.

      HR is 99% likely to be waiting on your drug test results. I know it’s hard to wait when you’re excited to start a new job and aren’t hearing back, but they probably have a lot of things on their plate and will reach out soon. Good luck!

      1. Mike C.*

        There are plenty of medications that look like (or are) controlled substances. Adderall-type drugs always make you look like a meth head to the lab.

        jamlady, if you take meds like that, it takes a few days and someone will call you asking about the results. Just have your doctor’s name, contact information and DEA number available (should be printed on the bottle) and there won’t be any problems.

        1. jamlady*

          Good advice – I’m getting all prepped juuuuust in case.

          Side vent – Drug tests are stressful and invasive and the worst.

      2. jamlady*

        Yeah I was given a conditional offer a few weeks ago, went through a background check, and negotiated/signed an official written offer last week. I verified with HR on Friday that I was through everything and could give notice on Monday and was given the green light. They somehow forgot I still had to do the drug test lol

    2. Chaordic One*

      These are always nerve wracking. I had to take a drug test several years ago when I briefly worked at a supermarket. Although I passed, I always worry about getting a false positive from eating something with poppy seeds or from OTC allergy medicine or something like that.

  133. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

    Anybody have any suggestions for how to decide on a second career when you aren’t sure where you want to go?

    I currently work in a pathology laboratory (8yrs in June), but don’t have any any official credentials for the actual lab w0rk that I’ve done (I did a little of everything until the laws/regulations changed the requirements of who was allowed to do what work).
    My primary job is materials (ordering supplies for lab, office, and clients), client service lead, procedure writing/editing (technical writing), and basically every other hat that might fall under Admin or Operations with a higher level of responsibility and management trust. If there’s a project that the Director needs completed but isn’t sure where to send it, it generally comes to me because I rarely have to say no and can manage multiple projects at once despite being short-handed in my department(s).

    I want very much to be done with client service, having done that most of my life so far, from retail and food service, to current. I love working in Excel and editing existing materials, but don’t feel great at writing up original content on my own (if someone else gives me the framework, I can write it up no problem). I’m a super-user for basic computer stuff and get tapped as basic IT for various things (if I can Google it, I can probably do it), but I’m not formally trained at all in any aspect of actual IT work.

    I’m not against going back to school (I have a BA in English with a concentration in both creative and technical writing), though ideally I wouldn’t have to get a whole new BA/BS and then more education just to get a new job. I like doing behind-the-scenes support work too, but I need to be paid a comfortable wage (not even super high! Between $45 and $60K would be fine).

    TL;DR – How do I figure out where to direct my energies in deciding how to move on to a new career? Are there counselors/services that look at your credentials and abilities and help narrow things down? Do I base my decision on what jobs look to be available where I’m moving in a few years? (to be closer to family after many years far away)

    If anybody has some advice, I’d dearly love it.

    1. Celeste*

      One of my friends does technical writing of IT manuals and works from home, so location isn’t an issue. She makes the kind of money you’re looking for. I wonder if this would be enough of a change for you?

  134. Jenrenee536*

    Open Office Woes! We have a contract employee that comes in intermittently, but when he is in the office, he constantly clears his throat. Like at least once every 2 minutes. For some reason it is like finger nails on a chalkboard to me and I’m working on ways to ignore it. I can’t constantly have headphones on in our enviroment.

    Anecdotally –
    We had one awkward interaction where he was walking behind me and cleared his throat. Of course, I thought it was someone getting my attention and I instinctively turned around. Several seconds later he clears his throat again and as I turned around he let me know that he wasn’t trying to get my attention, so he’s aware of his constant throat clearing.

    1. Sadsack*

      He’s aware, but that does not mean he can do anything about it. He may have a medical issue or allergy that medications or therapy just aren’t completely fixing. I am currently going through this. Some people suffer for years with allergy symptoms. So, I beg you to try and ignore it for his sake.

  135. Amber Rose*

    Feces flow downstream, yes?

    A coworker hurt themselves in January. I followed up with them a week later and was told all was well. Now three months later, I’m hearing that actually there’s a serious problem with that person’s shoulder and they need X-rays and ultrasounds and probably need to go through WCB and stuff.

    Even though I did my job properly, my boss is pissed at me. Because I can’t read minds. And also when I pointed out I have no training in dealing with WCB stuff and have literally no idea what to do, also isn’t this an HR thing, he basically shrugged me off and told me to figure it out.

    So yeah, my problems with this company in a single, representative scenario. FML.

    1. Effie*

      Ugh, that sucks. I don’t have any advice, just sympathy.

      Maybe contact HR and ask them for help/to take over?

      1. Amber Rose*

        HR is technically just our accountant. She’s helping as much as she can, but my boss was clear that he wants me to do the work, for some stupid reason.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      WC should be able to guide you through the process. Call them and ask for help.

    3. KiteFlier*

      If you don’t have HR, do you use an outsourced company for things like payroll, HR systems, etc? If so, your WC is probably through them.

      1. Amber Rose*

        No. We have one lady who is our accountant/payroll/HR/admin. She’s nice, but usually very busy.

        1. Construction Safety*

          Late, but: Find out who your WC insurance carrier is. They can handle it. (They’re going to be slightly miffed that they are getting it 3 months post-injury, but that’s not your problem.)

  136. Gala apple*

    Looking for suggestions on where to find your guide – type jobs. Is there a museum or historic site job board? Thanks!

    1. Leena Wants Cake*

      You mean jobs for being a tour guide at historic sites/museum? There are lots of good places to find these. Try idealist.org, but I’ve also found many of them on craigslist too. If you have specific historic sites or museums in mind, visit their “about” or “get involved” pages to see if they hire guides/docents (or if they have volunteers perform these role). Monitor the social media feeds and “employment” pages of museums that regularly hire guides.

    2. MuseumChick*

      There are a bunch a museum job boards. A few: The American Alliance of Museum, The American Association of State and Location History, The Association for Living History, Farm and Agricultural Museums, and nearly every state has a museum association with a job boards so if you google “(State) Museum Association” you state’s should come up.

      Disclaimer to all this: Most museums are only interesting in hiring people who already have some experience. If you don’t look into volunteering first.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        This. You listed the ones I know of. I’d also check out the websites of any local state parks or national parks in the area.

  137. Zathras*

    I’m curious to get other people’s take on this – in your opinion, are activities related to trainings/tutorials/documentation one of those things that women often end up doing more of than their male counterparts?

    I am a Teapot Engineer in a technical role who works primarily with systems that provide teapots to the people who need them. I am one of 2 people working in that specific area and the only female Teapot Engineer on our wider team of 8 full time staff, although my boss is also a woman and we have had female interns come and go. Our team occasionally gets tapped to give hands-on beginner workshops on how to interact with our systems in order to acquire and use the teapots. Officially we share this duty, but in practice 100% of the training materials were developed by me, and I have led all of the tutorials (which are typically 2-3 hours long). I have also written all of our beginner documentation.

    The thing is, I *hate* doing all this. I hate public speaking, I am not great at classroom management, I find it difficult to explain things to people who do not think like me, and to top it off I have hearing issues that make leading from the front of a classroom difficult. These are all skills I have worked on and improved a good deal (well, except the hearing) but it doesn’t really change the fact that standing in front of classroom is incredibly stressful and not at all related to what I was hired to do. I don’t really mind writing documentation but I object to writing other people’s documentation for them.

    This plays into a larger pattern where I feel as if I get stuck with a lot of the crappy tasks just because I am conscientious and when my boss asks me directly to do X, I don’t whine about it, I just suck it up and do X. I did once bring up the fact that I hate public speaking and would prefer not to be the only one doing these and my boss acted like I had asked for something totally unreasonable and obstinately refused to understand what the problem was. If she had said “I get that you hate it but I have decided you are the person whose time we can most afford to spend on this” I would understand that, but she insisted that developing the training materials and preparing for a 2-3 hour interactive classroom session was not a big time commitment and refused to hear otherwise.

    Anyway that was kind of a rant, but I’m wondering if this is one of those things women get stuck with more often in general, and if so might that be a good way to frame it to my boss? Either way, I’d love suggestions for good scripts to bring this up again more effectively – I have led 3 of these trainings since the last time I pushed back, and everyone else has done zero, so I think it’s time.

    1. DivineMissL*

      Yes, I think that women in general get stuck with this type of thing, because women will be obliging and men will say it’s not part of their jobs/they have more important things to do.

      But in talking to the boss, I wouldn’t frame it as a “not fair women have to do this” thing, but more as a “I’ve done my share, it’s time to spread the fun out more evenly” among all qualified employees.

      1. Zathras*

        I think you’re right, maybe the gender element isn’t related to the actual work, but to how likely I am to push back and how that is received. When the guys complain about and/or ignore the tasks they don’t want to do, the boss just rolls her eyes at them – and then when the deadline is tomorrow and it’s still not done, she freaks out and gives the task to someone else. But I can’t do that, when I occasionally let something slide (either intentionally or not) I get called out publicly for it.

        That’s what’s really frustrating – I’ve always been a step-up-and-help-out type person, but somehow here that has gotten me stuck in the role of the person who isn’t allowed to say no. When I tried to say no in a way that would not leave things silently undone, I was ignored.

        The overall situation here is “your boss sucks and isn’t going to change” (she has many other issue besides this one) and I’m looking at getting out. But that is going to take a while, for various reasons. So I’m hoping to find ways to make things suck less in the meantime.

    2. Ann Furthermore*

      That hasn’t been my experience personally, but of course I can’t speak for anyone else. At my last job my boss did tell everyone to start using my format for documentation. It was an Excel version of an ERP configuration document that I’d gotten a copy of while working with some consultants on another project. Normally those are all done in Word. I liked it SO much better — it was much easier to work with and manage. So I started using it for all of my configuration documentation. But everyone did their own.

      As far as pushing back on your boss, frame it so it’s beneficial to her. Tell her that it’s not a good idea to have only one person know how to do the training for all the usual reasons: illness, hit by a bus, and so on.

  138. Viridian*

    I have a question about when your health is affecting your job search/prospects. I’ve been dealing with mental health issues for the past couple of years. My last 3 contract jobs (basically been trying to get what I can) have been a bit stressful especially the last one since I didn’t have a supervisor who didn’t treat me or some of my co-workers very well. Most of my experience is in customer service and I’d really like to move away from that area as I have some experience in clerical work and marketing. The problem is most of the FT jobs in those areas I find require 3+ experience or to be a student/recent grad (I’m neither of those). I’m thinking of taking a survival job but honestly, the last 2 jobs I’ve had were exactly that and were 70-90 minutes one way via public transit and paid minimum wage. I know I may sound ungrateful but I really want a job where I’m not dealing with customers all the time. In recent years, it’s made my mental health problems worse so much I struggled through the day to not cry at work and end up crying as soon as I get home, feel numb and get irritable with family/friends. FTR, I’ve been seeing a counsellor for the past couple of months (and will have to stop soon as it’s on a short term basis) and after something that happened last month, my mom is trying to help so I try to stop worrying about things less. I don’t know what to do at this point and I’m wondering if looking for jobs that involve less stress than customer service is hurting my job search. Any advice/suggestions would be helpful. Sorry for the essay!

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      Just because you are not a “recent grad” doesn’t mean you can’t apply for entry level. “Recent grad” is often code for “we aren’t paying a lot, because this is entry level”. It is a way of avoiding dealing with people who are over qualified from applying.

      I would focus on writing a cover letter where you really sell why you want to move in this direction and what strengths you bring. I’d think about what these contract jobs have given you that you can move in that direction.

      I’d also look for a longer term help with your help. Sometimes mental health can sabotage a job search. Good luck!

    2. Detective Rosa Diaz*

      I switched career paths from marketing to more customer service/admin type roles, kind of the opposite of you ha. I have a master’s degree in Integrated Marketing but still apply and receive calls for entry-level jobs. (I am looking for entry level things for a variety of reasons).

      It is totally normal. Just have to put the right spin on it. For me, I say how I discovered I love admin roles. I also recently changed cities so I am looking to get involved in a company with lots of opportunities, but flexibility.

      In your case, I think you could very easily say something like “Well I was doing contract work and at the time it was perfect, but now I’m looking for something with more stability.” Just do a little research and name a couple reasons why their company interested you specifically and they will love you! For example “Well, I was so impressed that your company has grown 10% every year since you started, and also that you offer time off for charity. It sounded like an amazing cultural fit.”

      People only really care if you expect non-entry level pay for entry-level work. They will probably ask you, and given your situation you could VERY easily say “Well yes I was making a bit more doing contract work, but I think the trade-off of a steady paycheck, regular schedule and health benefits is a very good tradeoff.”

    1. Fabulous*

      I dread getting assignments to talk about myself or tell about my experiences. Can’t I just do a research project instead??

    2. babblemouth*

      I hate them with such a passion. I think the only valuable information a manager can get out of them is whether or not their reports are humble or vain.
      If there is a system with useful questions, I have yet to see it.

    5. Kerr*

      Loathe them. My job doesn’t lend itself to grand achievements that can be called out at the end of the year, either.

      This year, I’m trying to do better about keeping a file of accomplishments, even the small ones.

  141. New Bee*

    Two things:

    My husband and I disagree: Should you connect with your spouse/relatives on LinkedIn? My answer is no, especially since we’re not in the same field.

    Also, his coworker showed him and another coworker her underwear in the middle of the office! They complimented her on her outfit (like, “Nice shirt.”) and she…pulled down her pants. He came home and told me this story the same day as the “changing in the office” post, and I couldn’t stop laughing. I guess this is a thing now…

    1. DrPeteLoomis*

      I agree that you should not connect with relative on LinkedIn, unless you are in the same field and have a true work connection.

      Also, please, I must have more details about why this coworker thought it was appropriate to show her underwear in the office??!!! Was it like “OH, I never could have pulled off this outfit without this amazing new underwear!” *drops trou* Not saying that makes it ok, but that’s literally the only scenario I can think of.

      1. CM*

        “You think the shirt is good, wait until you see THIS!”
        I am so curious about this too. Sounds like something my 6-year old would do.

      2. New Bee*

        That’s exactly what she did, except the underwear didn’t match! Not that it would make things better, but it was like, checkered shirt and hot pink boy shorts. One of the higher-ups walked by right as she did it too–my husband doesn’t have an office; she was standing between two cubicles.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’m connected with relatives and non-work friends on Linked In. You never know who might be a useful contact.

    3. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I don’t really think it matters if you’re friends with your spouse/relatives on LinkedIn. I don’t seek out my relatives since we’re not in the same field (or state) but I am friends with one of my uncles because he added me and I couldn’t see any particular downside to it. I guess they could endorse you in a bunch of stupid things, but I think most endorsements are stupid anyhow.

    4. Emilia Bedelia*

      I do connect with relatives/friends in unrelated fields. Many of my contacts share really interesting/useful resources on LinkedIn, and also updates from the companies they work at, so it’s an easy way to keep up with what everyone is up to.
      I have a job and I’m not looking for one, so I use LinkedIn mainly as a social network with a professional focus (as opposed to an actual job hunting/networking tool).

    5. Epsilon Delta*

      I really cannot think of a reason not to connect with a spouse or relative. I mean, worst case scenario…. they can’t introduce you to a useful contact? They don’t understand the article you shared? I’m just not seeing the downside.

    6. PollyQ*

      his coworker showed him and another coworker her underwear in the middle of the office!

      Monica Lewinsky did this and it really did not work out well for her.

      Re: Linked In, I link to friends and family, even if I’ve never worked with them, mostly because it doesn’t matter much.

  142. justsomeone*

    I need a new to-do app for my side-gig. I’ve been using Wunderlist, but that’s going to be retired soon in favor of Microsoft To Do (which based on the description, I already hate). I need something that’s not calendar based, but more just a place I can keep lots of separate to-do lists, some shared and some private. Can anyone recommend an Android app that has a widget and a computer interface?
    (Evernote did not work for me.)

      1. justsomeone*

        Does that have a widget? I’ve played with the desktop setting, but haven’t found a widget. The widget aspect is really important. (I like being able to check off things from my phone screen without having to open the app.)

        1. PollyQ*

          It has an iPhone app, and I would certainly assume it has an Android one as well. With Windows and Google Chrome, you can also sort of make a desktop widget, if desired.

    2. LadyKelvin*

      Or Microsoft Onenote. it is similar to Evernote (I’m not sure why it didn’t work for you) but it has many more of the options that Evernote makes you pay for. And Onenote’s app is pretty easy to use.

    3. Jillociraptor*

      Check out Asana or Trello. Both let you make different to-do lists and I think you can share at the list level with others!

    4. Manders*

      I use Trello for this, although I’m not sure about the quality of their Android widgets.

      I also use Habitica for side gig reminders and general life tasks. Some people are turned off by the gamification and the cutesy graphics, but it’s worked wondered for me. My biggest issue is that it’s a very simple program and it doesn’t have many ways to sort and prioritize tasks.

  143. StartupLifeLisa*

    I spend 2 hours with my somewhat socially inept boss yesterday trying to “manage up” and help him repair some very damaged relationships in the office. He asked for the help, seemed very open to feedback and listened actively, which is new for him. I was SO PROUD of him!

    One of his damaged relationships is with our HR manager, who reports to Grandboss at Parent Company. It’s caused a problem that he can’t mend fences with HR, because she relays all her complaints to Grandboss, who is based on another continent and doesn’t have too many chances to test whether or not HR’s reports are accurate. Grandboss’s opinion of Boss is declining.

    Boss has not been helping the situation by constantly complaining about HR to others, which makes him look like a gossip with no real power. Even though HR doesn’t report to him, Boss is the head of our organization and people lose respect for him when he gossips, because it shows he’s powerless to stop the behavior he’s gossiping and complaining about.

    I advised: “HR is complaining that you’re defensive and hostile to feedback, so it would be smart to take some time to listen to her and make her feel heard. You could tell her that you want to clear the air directly between the two of you, and apologize that your complaints about her to third parties got back to her. Once you hear each other out, you could try asking if she’s willing to commit that you’ll both give feedback for each other directly to each other, rather than talking to third parties.”

    He listened intently and agreed this might be the right approach.

    Then, he immediately went to HR Manager and said, “Lisa says you think I’m mad at you. Please stop spreading rumors.”

    #$(%!@&$^(%@#&^!!!!!!

    Guess that’s a message from the universe to mind my business, but this toxic dynamic is affecting everyone. They actively glare at each other in all-hands meetings. Ugh!

    1. animaniactoo*

      “Hey boss, I’m not sure if you recognize this, but what you said to HR is not what we had discussed happening. Were you aware of that?”

      Meaning, this guy might have needed actual scripts and may not recognize that the words that came out of his mouth were hostile and blame-shifting. Which, oh so not your problem to solve, but might be useful in pointing out to him and that he might benefit from some social interaction classes or something because you think this might be above your pay grade in being able to help him with given how badly it went.

  144. D.A.R.N.*

    As a temp who’s expected to be hired full-time by the company I’m temping for atm (as in, my manager has said “yes, you will be hired, I just don’t know the timeline for it”, do you think it’d be appropriate to ask about things like salary and benefits right now? I’ve been here for 7 months, and my manager came on from temping, and she’d taken a year of temp salary before being pulled in full-time.

    1. tw*

      I would wait until you actually have an offer.
      You know your situation better than me, but if you’re looking for a higher salary/benefits, I continue searching elsewhere as well. Not knowing a timeline isn’t promising enough to count on just that job

  145. I Want to Be Anonymous for This Question*

    I am wondering if anyone might have any wisdom or advice to offer in regards to a work/going back to school decision making process that I am in the midst of. I currently work full time in a management position at a small company. I have never particularly loved my job, but it is stable and it pays well. Last fall, I started serving as a “vacation” pastor within my faith community, which basically means that I would preach if the regular pastor was off or was on vacation. That role has expanded over time, and I am now serving as a part-time regular pastor at 2 different places. I am finding that this is what I truly love to do, and I would like to eventually transition into becoming a full-time pastor. But….that would require me to go to seminary school and get a master’s degree. Because of the nature of many seminary programs, I would be unable to continue to work full-time while taking classes. I would also be taking on more student debt, which my husband and I don’t really need, especially since most clergy folks in my faith community make peanuts. While this is something that I really want to do, I can’t help but think that I would be a fool a to give up a good-paying job so that I could get a degree in a field in which I won’t make any money. The risk that is associated here is making me very nervous. Have any of you wise folks gone back to school so that you could transition into a lower paying field? Do you have any wisdom or advice that you would like to share? Do you regret making the switch and taking on additional debt to do so?

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      My dad was in a similar situation. The main differences is that he was nearing retirement age and although it depleted my parents’ savings, when it didn’t work out as he’d planned (and he didn’t) he has a pension and social security to live on.

      But.. a calling can’t always be ignored. I guess I’m just saying is, do you have a Plan B if things don’t work out. Not everyone makes it even through the many screenings of Seminary. And if your denomination requires Seminary, they probably have a discernment process- I’d say go through that, and then decide from there. :)

    2. MegaMoose, Esq*

      The best advice I can give you is to talk to a bunch of people who’ve done what you’re thinking about doing, especially within the last 5-15 years. Don’t take any one experience as gospel (no pun intended), but they’re going to be the ones to really give you the information you need to make an informed decision. I left a full-time job to go back to school and have hugely struggled with finding work. I absolutely love being a lawyer, but the debt is not a joke. And yes, sometimes I do regret it.

    3. Epsilon Delta*

      Perhaps you can save money from your current job to pay for the seminary school. Set aside the difference between your current pay and what you would be making as a pastor, until you have the full amount saved up.

      1. Chriama*

        I like this. Alternatively, use that money to pay off your current debt in order to free up income to cash flow seminary school.

        1. Anna Held*

          All of this. Plus, talk to people in the profession — if you’re temporary, you might not be doing some of the counseling or budgeting and management or other work that is stressful. Pastors tend to work long hours. You might not like the job as much as you think, plus you wouldn’t be earning as much. Money woes on top of it won’t help.

          I’d talk to your husband about what you can and can’t do, , where you see yourselves in 10 or 20 years, etc., too. This will effect him as well.

          Finally, will you have to move to find a job? Will you have much choice in where you can live? Not trying to be a naysayer, but if you have a list of all the challenges and work through them with specific solutions with your husband, you’ll feel much better about your choice.

    4. ..Kat..*

      I was a computer programmer. I went back to school to be a nurse (earned my Masters of Science in Nursing). I had saved up enough to not need to work while in school. (I had been very frugal with my lovely computer programming salary. And, just lucky.) When I got my first nursing job, I was earning only 20% of my previous salary. But, I really like what I do now. It was very scary to make the leap – I wondered if I was making a huge mistake; would I regret it later. I was so scared that I even had a few panic attacks!

      I recommend finding out what you would make after the career change and make a budget for that salary. Could you realistically live on that? Also, you have a husband to consider. What are his thoughts on what your career change would mean for your family unit? Would you have to put off having children for example? What would this do to your retirement savings/plans?

      If you don’t hate what you do for a living, could you keep your current job and become assistant clergy (say a deacon)?

  146. AnonAnonAnonA BATMAN!*

    I’m overhearing the adjustment of our pay scale and it sounds like for this upcoming year’s contracts, some people are going to receive raises of $5 an hour, but it also sounds like someone (maybe one person, but possibly multiple) will be offered less than their current rate simply because of how the scale is being restructured (they were possibly hired at a higher level than they should have been).

    I don’t know WTF my boss is doing, but this is crazy.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      Any boss worth anything would NOT lower someone’s rate- they would just freeze it and let everyone else catch up.

    2. PollyQ*

      I hope your boss is comfortable with those folks leaving as soon as possible, because they will.

  147. MissGirl*

    I’m helping my friend with her resume and have some questions on how to treat some experience. Including the full story because it’s so crazy.

    Jane worked at an incredibly dysfunctional company (Teapots LTD). Her boss has company ADD. He constantly starts new companies under the Teapot parent company, hires a bunch of people, gets bored or doesn’t make money, and lays everyone off, only for the cycle to begin again. Jane has managed to stay employed because she builds websites and handles the IT for all these little companies.

    A few years ago, she was put on a team with two others, and they started their own company under the parent (Teacups LTD). It actually makes money unlike most everything else but because it wasn’t Boss’s idea, he never liked it. Last week Boss laid her and her team off, thinking they could outsource their work for cheaper. Boss told them they could stay on until May 1 to wrap things up. Jane was promised severance but nobody could tell her how much. Boss says the three of them can keep Teacups LTD and he’ll transfer ownership over to them.

    A week after laying everyone off, Boss assigns her team a huge website to build and wants it done before they leave. Jane’s manager, who was laid off, announces he’s leaving that day because he’s done with all the chaos. Boss brings Jane into a meeting where he tells her he wants her to build the site and do all this other work on a division they just shut down the week before, because they laid the entire team off. She tells him this isn’t possible in a week. Boss is angry at them for not being able to do what he wants. He realizes maybe he does need Jane after all and will keep her on as a contract worker. Jane is fed up and makes that day her last day as well.

    Here’s the questions. How should Jane place Teacups LTD on her resume. Should it be its own work entry even though dates would overlap with old company? Should it be a subset of Teapots? Should she show she’s still working at Teacups, even though it’s going to be more like a freelance job with a few clients? In interviews, if they ask why she left her previous job, is it enough to say they closed her division and laid her off?

    1. animaniactoo*

      She can list each, but list “Teacups LTD (formerly a division of Teapots LTD, separated in 2017).” which will explain the overlap concisely.

  148. Silly Silsy*

    I have a newish asst. manager who like to cc our boss and our boss’s boss on many of her emails. At first, it seemed like she was just documenting every little thing she did and ccing the bosses to try to show how much she was doing. However, lately she seems to be actively searching out people’s mistakes so that she can be the one to point them out (via email with ccs, naturally). This past week she emailed and cced about a list of publications missing from a coworker and me – except that they aren’t actually due for two weeks (and one she claimed was missing was actually there and SHE had missed it). Arghhhh! I’m getting really fed up and would like some advice on what to say to her before I really lose it and start reply to all of her emails with “WTF are you doing?”.

  149. katamia*

    Looking for snack ideas for breaks for my new job. I’ll be eating around the merchandise and also just really hate messy food, so no sandwiches or frozen burritos or anything. A cup of yogurt would be ideal…if I didn’t hate yogurt. :P Also, I’m not diabetic but it runs on both sides of my family, so something that doesn’t have much sugar/starch would be good but not absolutely necessary. Thanks!

    1. Squeeble*

      Along the yogurt cup idea, there are those snack-size containers of cottage cheese. Maybe those would work?

    2. Manders*

      My friend taught me how to make an awesome mix with plantain chips, toasted coconut bits, and nuts. You get a little boost without the sugar rush. Be careful not to chow down on too much at once, though, because there’s a huge amount of fiber in it.

    3. Leatherwings*

      I make a chia seed banana pudding thing that’s pretty good. Almond milk, banana and a little honey blended with chia seeds stirred in into a little plastic container. Magic. You can add lots of different things like oats, peanut butter, chocolate, dates etc.

      1. Manders*

        Yes to chia seeds for making snacks that won’t screw with your blood sugar. I’m drinking them straight out of a cup with hot water in it right now, but you can add them to all sorts of drinks and puddings if you don’t like the texture as much as I do.

    4. Natalie*

      A nut mix would be good – you could either buy a pre-packaged one or mix your own. I’m also a big fan of the Blue Diamond flavored almonds, although they can be kind of messy because they leave flavor dust on your fingers a la cheetos.

    5. Celeste*

      Individually wrapped cheese pieces. There is a lot more available now than just mozzarella string cheese!
      Jerky.
      Little containers for grape tomatoes, blueberries, and cut up strawberries.
      Lunch size packs of cottage cheese.
      Almonds, plain.

    6. ..Kat..*

      -Wholly Guacamole minis. Single servings of guacamole in the refrigerated section of the grocery store.
      – Truitt hummus minis. Just what it sounds like. I buy it by the case from Amazon. No refrigeration needed.
      – single serving Jif peanut butter packs.

      You can eat these by themselves, or bring some kind of veggie for dipping (celery, cucumber slices, etc). I like to sprinkle hemp seed hearts on thes snacks – good amount of fiber, protein, healthy omega oils, minerals.

  150. CM*

    Do you have a side gig in addition to your day job? Why do you do it and how much time does it take?

    1. Jillociraptor*

      Mine is a passion project that lets me do something I really care about, and build skills I don’t get in my day job. I spend about 20 hours a week on top of my day job on the side hustle (plus travel 6-8 times a year or so).

    2. animaniactoo*

      I am my godmother’s computer tutor/handler of all things complex that require reading & patience/diplomacy.

      It was an accident. Originally she was hiring me for awhile to be her computer tutor, and I got her successfully up and running on the computer, and then she was hiring me to teach her Illustrator (which I use professionally), but she kept finding more and more things that she could use help with and the Illustrator got sidelined in favor of things like reading the e-mail that came from the APA and figuring out what she needs to do about anything. She’s severely dyslexic so that’s a large chunk of why it’s worth her while to pay me (her insistence on that front although I do give “breaks” on it sometimes when she’s looking and sometimes when she isn’t) to read it and figure it out for her, and do things like researching and booking flights for her. On average it’s about 2-3 hours worth of work/research at home a week, and 5 hours actively working with her every other weekend.

    3. Effie*

      I’ve always had a fitness/dance side gig. Definitely doing it out of love because it doesn’t pay much (luckily I consistently get job satisfaction there!). I’m at a place now where my clients need me more than I need them so I can arrange hours to my schedule. It fluctuates and for the last year I’ve cut down to 5-10 hours/week. Definitely couldn’t handle more than that right now.

    4. katamia*

      I freelance and also now am working retail part-time. I don’t know which one would technically count as the side gig, but I do it both for financial reasons (neither one pays very much) and because I’m applying to grad school for fall 2018 and my reference options are extremely doubleplusungood, so I want a good reference from one of my retail bosses (the store is related to what I want to go to grad school for, so this isn’t as odd as it might seem). The retail is about 16-18 hours a week, and the freelancing varies a lot more, though I’m trying to cut back some on that now that I have other income too.

    5. justsomeone*

      I do marketing and social media support for a small craft business that someone else owns. I do about 5 hours a week. More if there’s a product launch. I love it – I get paid in product, which ends up being more than I’d be able to purchase on my own.

    6. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I grade bar exams, because I enjoy doing it and see it as something of a service to my professional community. The exam is administered twice a year and grading takes at most ten hours a week for six weeks, so it’s definitely on the light end of things for a side gig. I’m also in the process of hopefully escaping my day job, and grading has turned out to be a fun talking point on my resume, plus even if it doesn’t pay much, it pays better than volunteer work.

    7. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

      I used to be a pharmacy tech part-time (fulltime was auditing). I got into it because I knew everyone there (small town) and I needed the money.

      I liked learning how different medications work and the problem-solving aspect of billing, and it was just plain fun for me to just count pills (lame, I know).
      I only quit because I got pregnant after I’d been there about 9 months and it was my 2nd job, and grad school was like a 3rd job, and I stayed sick the entire first trimester and couldn’t hang on any longer.
      I think in another life, I’d have gone to pharmacy school and been a PharmD.

  151. Andy*

    I pack a handful of almonds into tiny snack ziplocks ahead of time and keep some in my bag to pull out and have in a pocket for snackin’. no sugar, high protein, lots of crunch.

  152. Turkletina*

    Is there anyone here who works as a business analyst and would be willing to share (a) what kinds of questions they work on and (b) what kinds of statistics/analyses they use? I’ve got an interview coming up for a position I applied for on a “I’d like to work with numbers again” whim, and I’m not totally sure what exactly they expect me to be able to do. Thanks!

    2. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

      Not sure if it helps, but I just left a state government job for a job as a budget analyst for a local hospital. I’ve been in the new position about a month now.

      The position is very analysis-heavy, and focuses less on the numbers (at least for now). I’m responsible for collecting and tracking biweekly and monthly statistics from various departments – for example, we have departments that are revenue-driven by admissions, total visits, procedures performed, square footage, etc. I’m also responsible for running reports on labor distribution and overtime, which requires some reconciliation of payroll through our timekeeping system.

      I’ve completed one project for my supervisor to present to our CFO so far, which was an analysis of expenses being charged to our travel GL account. I have a project in process doing an analysis of prepaid expenses for use in forecasting for our FY2018 budget, and another to analyze various expenses for forecasting as well.

      My previous jobs have all been numbers heavy. The last one in particular saw me reviewing financial statements, working trial balances, and depreciation schedules.

      I’d say if it’s an analyst position, be prepared to be analyzing and not exactly crunching numbers. It’s been a not-unpleasant adjustment, but it’s definitely more analysis-heavy than I expected. Of course, this is just my experience alone so YMMV.

      Hope this helps!

      1. Turkletina*

        This is really helpful, thank you! I’ve been a bit worried because I’m pretty good at the synthesis-and-explanation side of things and less confident in my actual data manipulation skills, but this sounds like the sort of thing I could do (and I’m also interviewing with a hospital).

  153. Super Anon For This*

    Has anyone been employed somewhere for an extended period of time (say a decade or more), wanted to leave, but when they received an offer became completely panicked?

    While I’m not crazy about my current job (I like the work, the politics annoy me), I know I have plenty of job security and I make a good salary. I terrified about jumping ship and then having it not work out and then being unemployed potentially for a year or more (as it would probably take me that long to find another job with any sort of comparable pay), especially as I have limited savings.

    How do you get over the paralyzing fear?

    1. babblemouth*

      I know the feeling. It’s kind of like the first time you do parachuting (not that I’ve ever been parachuting). It’s terrorising, but the most you’ve stepped off the plane, all you have is the feeling of freedome, no fear left.

      See your new job offer as a way to learn something new. Even if the job is very similar, being exposed to a new workplace with different processes and habits will make you better at what you do.

      Good luck!

    2. Rincat*

      I was in my previous position for 7 years before getting a transfer/promotion to a different department at my university. I exactly what you’re feeling! I think what helped me was moving internally in my organization. It wasn’t as scary as a completely new company (also I just wasn’t getting any offers with external companies, though I had some interviews). So even though I’m new to this division, I still understand the larger culture here and how the university works.

      My first week I did panic a little and felt horribly imposter-ish, but that subsided. I think what also helped me get over my fears was reminding myself how unhappy I had been in my last job. I liked the work, but I hated the politics, and I hated how disorganized and “everything is an emergency” the culture was. I was just really burned out. I didn’t care about doing a good job, or doing anything – I spent most of my time on the internet. Because my former dept was so disorganized it never really mattered that most of my work didn’t get done, as long as I kept a bandaid on things. Long term projects that would have solved a lot of issues just never happened.

      So anyway – go for it! If you don’t see any real red flags about the new company, then I wouldn’t worry about just being kicked to the curb if it doesn’t work out. They will give you a chance. And they will give you a chance to learn – I was worried if I wasn’t an expert after 2 weeks they’d fire me, which was just my anxiety talking. I’m so much happier in my new dept – much more organized, great bosses and leadership, we’re actually doing things the right way so we’ll have lasting success.

      The scariest thing is just the change itself. Good luck!

  154. Anonymous in Higher Ed*

    The university I work at has been in the news this week for rescheduling the appearance of a prominent and provocative conservative speaker due to safety concerns. Actually, we’ve been in the news all spring due to a variety of major dust ups regarding prominent and provocative conservative speakers. Probably the university you are thinking of.

    It’s so interesting to work here, at this place that’s more symbolic than real for lots of people, and so interesting to see friends, family members, acquaintances, and various armchair analysts with Very Strong Opinions about what we should have done (not to mention immutable beliefs about what actually happened, which are not always accurate).

    I’d love to hear your stories and experiences dealing with this. Anyone been in a situation like this, struggling with your organization being in the news (or, more struggling with other people with Very Strong and Uninformed Opinions about your organization being in the news?) Did you engage with them and try to share more nuance about the situation? Keep your head down? Shout “WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF.” into the void?

    1. ZSD*

      Well, I think we can figure out where you work. :) I don’t have any advice, but I can second that yes, it’s definitely a symbol more than a real, live university for a lot of us. And I say that as someone who used to work elsewhere in the same system!

    2. babblemouth*

      I used to work for an organisation that caused a lot of people to have Very Strong feelings about the stuff we worked on. We attracted a LOT of trolls, and I know some people in my family felt quite a bit ambiguous about them.
      To deal with these I made sure to keep in mind what our mission was, and keep focus on how much I cared about it. What I didn’t do, but recommend you try, is take regular breaks from the onslaught of news and social media by giving yourself entire days where you don’t listen to any news and make use of media. Go take a hike, or spend a day with a book, or binge-watch a series. just get your mind out of it.

    3. Also Anon in Higher Ed.*

      Unfortunately, yes, at another university that was in the news a lot a few years ago. Academic corruption, sexual assaults covered up by the administration, problems with our athletics, nearly losing our accreditation…

      You might know the place. We were mentioned in every major news source in the country.

      I kept my head down and focused on my job. Fortunately, none of the scandal touched me directly, so this was easier than it might have been. I’m not a super active social media user, so I just stayed away and kept my opinions to myself whenever possible.

      Of course, it isn’t always possible. My personal policy was: be honest, but don’t volunteer more information than is strictly necessary. (And obviously, don’t violate confidentiality.) If someone is insisting on something that isn’t true, maybe you can say, “Actually, I was there when that happened, and …” Just because someone is uninformed doesn’t mean they want to stay that way. In fact, sometimes people will be happy to get the “insider information.”

      On the other hand, some people do want to stay uninformed, and they will try to fight with you. In my experience, you can try to correct them once. If they keep telling you you’re wrong, or get angry or argumentative, just let it go. You’re not going to make headway with them. Don’t agree with them, obviously. If at all possible, steer the conversation to cute puppies and kittens.

      I am really sorry that you’re having to go through this. Just know you’re not alone.

      1. Anonymous in Higher Ed*

        Thanks for the solidarity. I will say, working here has really improved my empathy and curiosity. I’m now very slow to render judgments on others after seeing my organization’s work misrepresented so egregiously.

        I like your policy. Luckily, my spouse is affiliated with the university too so we get our few minutes every night of CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS MESS venting so I can be a bit more controlled and patient when the issue pops up elsewhere. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hope you are in a better situation now!

  155. babblemouth*

    I got SO angry today at one of my colleagues, but managed to not blow up and stuck to seething in silence.
    He basically hijacked a group presentation we were giving to our leadership team, about a project we worked on for days. We decided as a group to not go all-in with his idea, and instead make it part of a bigger plan. He got SO petulant about it, and didn’t accept that we didn’t think his idea was the awesomest thing ever. For days he’s been basically working only on his favourite part of the project, and today he interrupted the presentation we were giving to highlight his part of the concept only.
    The rest of us had no choice but to play along , as otherwise we’d have looked very disfunctional as a gorup. Overall, it made the presentation worse, and I think it cost us buy-in.
    I’m beyond furious at him, but there was really nothing to do about it. We had one chance and it’s been blow, and next week I don’t ahve to work with him, so I didn’t bother reading him the riot act.
    What I’m wondering is if I should flag this to anyone, and if so, how. This was a one-off project, we’re not going to work together again, and we don’t have the same manager. What would you do?

    1. Whats In A Name*

      If this was a one-time thing and you don’t have the same manager I would let it go. However, if you have to work with him again or this project parlays into something bigger I would talk with him first, see how he reacts and then plan from there. If you don’t have to work together again I don’t know that there is anything that can be done at this point. I have been there, and been the one who tells as well as the one that looks bad. Because what he did sucked to you and the rest of the group but it sounds like there is no longer-term effect/consequence.

      I work with someone like this, too. Only I present with her all the time. And I hate her and get mad every single time we have to do a project together. The last time I mentioned it to the person I report to she told me I was coming across as petty.

      1. babblemouth*

        Thanks for answering. Coming across as petty is one of the things what I’m worried about. I am 100% sure my anger is justified, but I have no indication anyone else saw the group dynamic the same way as me, so I feel like I would be just seen as starting drama.
        If I’m a group with him again, I’ll certainly be watching my back.

  156. Ca*

    I was waiting for this thread all week! Need some input on my situation.

    I am a temp/contract worker who is technically employed until the end of the month. However, I’m supposed to be tied to a project that ends in January next year, and my supervisors have expressed interest in keeping me (I honestly don’t think my supervisors remember that I’m technically contracted until April; they’ve both been talking to me about my workload in May).

    How this arose was that I initially was supposed to be contracted until the end of the project, but they have not had their budget approved yet and so kept me on a monthly ‘probationary period’ for the past two months (also worth noting: this is a government agency that takes forever to actually get anything approved, so I do understand their position). The probationary period is an hourly rate of $13/hr, or ~$2080 a month. My initial asking price was $2500, and they said they would re-evaluate at the end of he 2nd month.

    There are three groups of people I’m in contact with about my contract situation. 1. The contact at the recruitment agency. 2. My supervisors. And 3. The project manager (not my supervisor, but she handles all aspects of the project and keeps it on track, like logistics and other areas. She does not outrank my supervisors, who are specialists in what they do).

    Like I mentioned, no one has talked to me about an extension yet, and there’s only one more week to go. So, who should I bring up this situation with. Further complicating matters is the fact that I want to renegotiate to a higher salary. As far as I can see, the recruitment agent is technically working for the company and have their best interests at heart not mine; my supervisors have seen my work the most, but don’t really deal with the budget although they’re aware of it; and the Princeton manager does know the Budget, but I’m lucky to speak to her once a weeek. So who would you go to about this?

    Also any tips on how to negotiate my salary while I’m already in the company would be useful.

    1. Ca*

      Also I should mention – the recruitment agency’s contract is expiring in May, as the government have a rebidding system to make sure they’re getting the best offer on the market. Which complicated things with the agency a little further.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Send an email to all of them reminding them that your current contract expires on 4/30 and asking what their plans are.

  157. Jbelly*

    Anyone ever get hung out to dry by a boss who wanted to cover their own butt? “I only skimmed the report and found errors, so I sent it back. The report should be along shortly.” When what actually happened is the boss didn’t want to admit to having in-depth discussions about the report and requesting changes and because of the additional time it took to make these changes, had to make an excuse as to why the report was delayed to one of the customers. So I get hung out to dry – and my reputation is questioned – because one formatting error is present in the appendix.

    That’s the federal government for you.

    1. animaniactoo*

      Yup. And she did not appreciate my actions in return.

      She gave me fairly thorough directions about how she wanted assets used to create some designs for a major retail client. I was not supposed to be in the meeting, but ended up being called in (and my *desktop* computer being placed on a cart and brought in!) to try and help save the project when it turned out that what I’d done was specifically explicitly what they didn’t want and we needed to play with some on-the-spot revisions to keep them on-board with us.

      That went well – and the next morning the owner of the company (who I had a longer-standing relationship with than she did and was the one to call me into the meeting), e-mailed both of us to ask how that had gone so wrong, forwarding us the original e-mail request that clearly laid out that what I did was a direction they hadn’t wanted. She e-mailed back to say that she thought that unfortunately I had misunderstood her instructions, and she didn’t have enough time to make changes after I showed them to her that morning. Note, this was a last minute rush job that I actually worked on at home over the weekend because otherwise we couldn’t have turned it in time so she was correct that there were minimal changes that could have been made prior to the meeting – and she did make some but she was happy with what I had done until the client wasn’t.

      I picked up the folder full of instructions and suggestions she had given me (and hadn’t handed back yet because it was still an active project), walked into his office and showed it to him with a “Just to be clear, this is what I was given”. Point for point, everything I did was exactly what she’d directed me to do.

      She told me she didn’t appreciate my having done that and didn’t think it was appropriate and I told her I was just crawling out from under the bus and I didn’t appreciate her having thrown me there and that I would ALWAYS defend myself when it came to a question of my work product.

        1. animaniactoo*

          She was a tad chilly for a few days but she got over it and life went back to normal. I had some standing in that a) I had a good relationship with the owner of the company and I wasn’t in his office playing on it every other week, and b) I was the best in the department at interpreting and carrying through her instructions so she actually had a good amount of respect for me and actively needed me.

  158. Effie*

    When should I start looking for a new job for a transcontinental move?

    I’m originally from the West Coast and moved to the East Coast about two and a half years ago. I’m planning to move back in the beginning of October when my lease is up. My family has already said that I can move back in with them until I find my own place so thankfully housing is settled enough that I can seriously plan a move without worrying about it.

    I’m in my 20’s and my post-college job history looks very job-hoppy (due to a combination of circumstances including moving, accepting underemployment to avoid homelessness, etc.*), plus all my full-time positions have been entry-level. I’m supposed to get a promotion this summer at my current position so I’m thinking about holding off applying until I have SOMETHING on my resume that isn’t an entry-level position. I’m planning to apply for entry-level-ish positions (ie coordinator) so I know that it’s not like a company will offer to fly me out for an interview.

    Would really appreciate any insight or advice, thanks!

    *Long explanation: did a 10-month internship in the Midwest after college, did not stay on with the company after and moved back to the West Coast. Could not find a job for 6 months and accepted a retail position. Was there for a year and a half, could not get promoted due to lack of sales; lack of sales happened because I was training all the new employees that the manager couldn’t train. Escaped into an admin position, left after a year to move to East Coast. On East Coast, could not find a job outside of retail. After 6 months (refused promotion again), escaped into a cx support position in a toxic startup. Escaped after a year into current position where I am content (was planning to stay for a couple years at least) but for my health I really need to move back to the West Coast. Throughout I’ve always had some kind of dance/fitness side gig, including managing a dance studio, but other than the 6-month management position everything’s stayed entry-level.

    1. fposte*

      I don’t think that applying in advance of the move is going to get you much for early career jobs in your situation; it’s a bumpy enough resume that a transcontinental address/unavailability for interview could really be a problem. I’d just move and network like crazy to get over the bumpy resume.

  159. AlaskaKT*

    For those who work in self employment: How do you pay yourself?

    I’m working on turning my homestead into a actual farm but I’m not sure how to count my hours since I don’t work for 8 hours then go home. I live here, I make animal rounds as soon as I wake up, before I go to bed and a dozen times in between. It doesn’t help that some animals are for personal use and some are for commercial use! I’m pretty good at purchasing things for farm only vs personal only, but paying myself feels like stealing money that I want to go back into the farm. How do I get over this?

    1. Natalie*

      An owner-operator of a business wouldn’t typically pay themselves on an hourly basis – they’d take some portion of the profits. The exact portion is going to depend on how much you’re making and how much you need.

      If you don’t need that much, would it help mentally if you kept some of that profit aside as a reserve? (I would probably put it in a comparatively safe investment vehicle, but that’s me.) That can be the bulk of your “payment”, but if worse comes to worse you can liquidate it for the farm.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Yeah, you don’t need to track your hours! That’s part of the benefit of working for yourself!

        Personally, I “pay” myself by taking all the money.

          1. Natalie*

            I have a lot of small business ownership in my family, but no farms, which I imagine are their own sort of beast. Are there any Farmer Organizations near you, or online, where you could check in with more experienced farmers? Or, if you have a little cash to spend, any accountants/business consultants who might have some advice worth paying for?

  160. AMPG*

    Looks like my earlier post got lost in the void because I included the YouTube link – I just wanted to talk about the new Rachel Bloom song, “#LadyBoss,” which I thought was hilarious. Anyone else seen it yet?

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I was prepared to hate this because I HATE that word and find it so sexist and patronizing (and am outraged that there’s now a Netflix show based on the book of that name), but that was really funny.

      1. Dienna Howard*

        I almost didn’t watch “Crazy Ex-Girlfriend” for the same reason, thinking it was going to be sexist and reductive because of its title, but it’s a smart and hilarious show.

  161. Oh Well*

    I had one very positive interview with an employer, and another one with a different employer that led to a verbal job offer, and now both have gone silent on me. I’ve sent a few polite emails, but they weren’t answered and it’s been over a month. I suspect things won’t work out, and though it’s frustrating to never hear anything after such positive experiences, there’s really nothing else I can do.

    On that note, any advice for skills I could pick up in my free time that would make me awesomely employable? I’ve pondered stats, programming, GIS, etc, would love opinions on these and any other ideas!

  162. Roeslein*

    I sent this question to Alison and she suggested posting it here as she doesn’t have government experience.

    Back in January, I was approached and invited to interview for a government job. It sounded interesting (think teapot design applied to policy when I have a PhD in teapot engineering) so I flew in, did a panel interview for only 30 minutes and a few tests, and was verbally offered the position a few weeks later. At the time, I was 95% certain I would take the job and started planning my relocation.

    Since then, though, my experience with the whole recruitment process has been horrible. For instance, HR won’t tell me how much I would be paid because salary is calculated based on experience, and so can only be determined once I have a formal start date. (It would almost certainly be a pay cut – the question is by how much.) So I had to spend days finding all the documents to prove everything I have done in the past 10 years, and going through a very intrusive medical check-up – all without a formal job offer. It has been over two months since the verbal offer. In that time, the team I would be joining has shown no interest whatsoever in answering my questions. When I told my would-be boss and another team member that I would be flying in for the medical check-up and implied I would be able to talk, no one offered to meet to discuss the position. A former colleague of mine from my PhD days works in that team, but when I tried to contact her earlier in the process she refused to speak to me as the selection process was still ongoing; she has not reached out since. The strangest thing thing is that everyone seems to take it completely for granted that I will be joining, even though I haven’t even received an offer, never mind accepted one. I suppose they find it inconceivable that someone would actually turn down a job offer from their prestigious organisation.

    Now, outside of academia I’ve only had experience in the private sector (mostly management consulting). This whole situation is very unusual for me, and I feel completely “taken for granted” – not just by highly bureaucratic HR (who just quote regulations back at me whenever I ask a question), but also by the team itself, and I haven’t even accepted the job yet! I am employed, and while it is quite stressful with long hours, I am not desperate to change right now. I am starting to seriously consider turning down the offer because of this attitude. Thanks to this process I’ve come to suspect I’d quickly get frustrated with the bureaucracy and the slow pace.

    Is this kind of attitude considered normal for government jobs, or is this organisation particularly dysfunctional?

    Thank you very much in advance for your help!

    1. gwal*

      Can you use publicly-available pay schedules and years-in-service requirements to identify the most likely one or two rates for your position and location? With a PhD and multiple years of experience, and likely a pay grade or career ladder mentioned in the job description, you’ll probably get an offer within a well-defined window.

      As for “taken for granted” by the team…maybe you feel that way, but you also have stated that the team didn’t pick up on your implications of being available, nor have they reached out to you since your interview and verbal offer. I would recommend reaching out with specific questions, especially now that the “no comment due to ongoing process” rationale should be moot, and seeing how they respond. That way you’ll get more insight into the work itself and your potential colleagues’ communication style, rather than (as it currently sounds) their ability to perceive what you want without you telling them.

      “Taken for granted” by HR? Could be! They’re probably not tied too tightly to the actual team you’d be joining. It’s certainly nothing personal, and doesn’t sound particularly dysfunctional for govt.

    2. OtterB*

      My husband took a job with the government a couple of years ago, and his hiring process looked a lot like this too. He had an interview in December and a verbal offer in early January but didn’t start work until March while things worked their way through the system. Since then his team has lost out on several people they would have liked to hire because it took so long to get a formal offer to them. It may be that the team is not so much taking you for granted, as trusting that as long as you haven’t said “I’ve accepted a job elsewhere, take me off your list,” that you’re still coming.

      Once he was on the job there are some annoying bureaucratic aspects but the hiring process wasn’t indicative of the general team vibe.

    3. jamlady*

      Unfortunately this sounds about right for the hiring process. I was just offered 2 government jobs – I pulled out of one because the process was exactly like yours and the other offer was better (but they’re driving me crazy too). I have worked for multiple agencies as a contractor and I still see aspects of that madness in their work life, but it’s not nearly as bad as it is during the hiring process.

    4. PollyQ*

      HR won’t tell me how much I would be paid because salary is calculated based on experience, and so can only be determined once I have a formal start date

      I am dismayed to hear that this is “normal,” because I’d be greatly inclined to respond with “LOLNOPE #byefelicia” to that. Does your hiring manager know that you haven’t been told a salary, or even a range?

      1. gwal*

        If this is US government (federal or most states), the range is publicly available and the job itself is associated with a fixed set of salary values. It’s a standardized pay band system.

    5. Tabby Baltimore*

      I’m assuming here that you mean a federal government job, but I have to wonder, are you absolutely sure it’s really with a federal agency, and not a quasi-governmental agency, or even a think tank that does a lot of contract work with the federal government? I only ask because, even though it’s been the typical drawn-out process I have heard about/am familiar with, HR’s comment about your salary level is not, in my experience, normal at all. It’s been my experience and the experience of others I know that HR, from the get-go, is always pretty clear about what the salary parameters of a job are, and is willing to communicate that. If you have a Ph.D., my *guess* is that you will be offered a GS-11, step 1 salary. (I say this based only on what I have seen over time, but YMMV.) You should be able to find the federal salary table for 2017 on the Internet fairly easily to confirm what this figure is (be sure to get a table that includes the locality pay for the region you’ll be working in), and if you can live within it. You have my sympathy; getting a job with the federal government is a truly excruciating process.

      1. gwal*

        I know current feds who were hired into GS-12 with a recent PhD (I think this is now the standard entry point for PhD holders), and this person sounds like they have more experience. It seems like they haven’t yet determined what step at which to hire the person, which would be HR’s realm and sticking point. But they’ll just be counting years in jobs where the keywords match the keywords of the job for which the person is being considered, so this person can probably figure out one or two likely steps that they’ll probably be offered.

  163. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    It’s less than 2 hours left in the office, but I have pollen allergies making me miserable (dark circles around eyes) and this is even after taking meds X/ It’s never been this bad (to the point of nosebleeds), etc.
    I need to get rid of these dark circles and feel/look less miserable right now….X(((((

    1. Renee*

      Are you actually in SoCal? If so, solidarity fistbump. We’re all miserable at my office. I’m running on caffeine, Allegra, and Sudafed.

  164. Cheesecake 2.0*

    Late to the party but hopefully can get some advice. Sorry for length!
    I have a question about how to talk to a new employee who is treating the job more like a creative internship rather than a regular job. I (a programmer manager) hired a new person two months ago into a staff job at the big research university I work at. This position was supposed to be 50% light technical work (web content management, database updating/searching) and 50% administrative work. The employee just graduated college in Dec 2016, so this is his first big job. For the technical work, he reports to one of the professors I work with. She has recently gave him some simple technical work and a time allotment of 7 full working days to complete it. At the end, he hadn’t done it, and when we asked why, it turned out he was spending time reading about programming languages instead. He admitted that he hadn’t tried very hard and work it shouldn’t have been too difficult, and said he’d been studying instead as he thought it might be applicable to work he could do in the future for us. He then asked if he could help with more project management type tasks instead, so I had him take the university’s Event Planning training and gave him a list of tasks to do to help with an event I’m planning for one of our grants. He did a few items and then came to my office and asked if he could work with a different professor instead because he had been reading her research and thought it was neat. I told him he needed to do the event-related tasks for now and he was disappointed. Basically, since he was hired, he has been spending a lot of time reading and learning about things he finds interesting instead of producing concrete work (these are only the most recent examples), and doesn’t seem to understand that it’s a problem. We have tried to be somewhat flexible with giving him a bit of choice in his duties but need some language on how to make it absolutely clear that he has to finish tasks and meet deadlines and can’t just study javascript all day. He’s really not producing much but we decided to make one last direct attempt to get him to understand before letting him go. I am brand new to managing and haven’t dealt with this kind of behavior before, and the professor is not often around and so can’t really provide much direct oversight. Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I think you need to sit him down and explain what priorities come first and what are nice-to-haves.

      And stop being flexible. He’s running too far with it. Try being more firm for a while?

    3. LCL*

      You have been giving him a choice in his duties, and he is choosing. Just not the choices you want. Spend a few minutes on your own deciding his priorities and duties, write them down, then meet with him and tell him what his duties are and give him the list.

    4. Camellia*

      And of course, warn him that failure to comply and meet these requirements will result in him losing his job. Be very clear on this, don’t try to soften it or sugar coat it.

    5. Amber Rose*

      Time for unambiguous, inflexible language, and a clear set of consequences. “When we assign you tasks, we need you to do them in the timeframe we give you. It is not acceptable to not complete your work, unless you have spoken to us ahead of time about any delays. If you can’t complete your work, we will have to let you go.”

      It sounds like your attempts to get him to understand have been way, way too vague, especially since you keep caving in to his requests when he hasn’t proven he deserves it. Instead of consequences, you’re rewarding his behavior.

    6. animaniactoo*

      “It’s great that you want to get into other things and those absolutely may be useful in the future. However, right now we need the things that you are assigned to get done, and those things are what we are paying you to do. When you don’t do them it creates significant workflow and timeline issues for us, and that is a major problem. Sometimes the things we need to have happen will be boring. When we can we’ll work with you on having you do projects that you find more interesting, but first and foremost, we need you to complete anything that you have already been assigned or agreed to work on by their due-dates. Do you think that will be a problem?”

    7. Nanc*

      Well first of all, stop letting him pick and choose what he wants to do in terms of his job duties. Sorry if that sounds harsh but he’s in a real job so he needs to do all the parts of it, whether he likes them or finds them interesting or not.

      That said, if he’s been there for just a few months now is a great time to sit down for a check-in/probationary review. Go over his job description and review what tasks he’s doing well and where he needs to step it up. Part of getting the opportunity to work with more interesting stuff, etc., is proving yourself in your current position.

      As for language. Be direct. He’s not getting paid to study java script. If he wants to do it on his own time, great, but he’s getting paid to do specific tasks.

      This is going to sound really harsh but stop worrying about hurting his feelings. He’s disappointed because he doesn’t like doing certain tasks? We’ve all been there, and yet we’ve all done the task because hey, it’s our job.

      It sounds like you’ve just being hinting/suggesting that he needs to follow throught (sorry if that’s not the truth, but that’s my interpretation of the post). Give him structure, deadlines and if he doesn’t complete tasks, you need to know why. If he’s missing deadlines because he’s waiting on stuff from someone else, train him on how to deal with this; send a reminder, ask you for feedback, etc. If he’s not completing because he isn’t interested in the task, set consequences up to and including hey, he could be fired for not performing his job.

    8. fposte*

      Oh, holy cow, no. (And I wouldn’t wait around for a professor; they’re generally not all that management-savvy.) Basically, you’re going to make up a PIP for him. In so many words, “Your job is in danger. We will have to let you go if you don’t complete the assigned tasks. Here are the marks I’ll need you to meet while we’re considering this: xx hours a day on y reported to me, xxx done by end of week reported to me,” etc., whatever, for a month. Then do it.

      But also be willing to have the conversation with him about this being a situation that he might want to move on from; it’s usually better to have an amicable parting than a firing. “If you don’t think you can do that, let’s talk now about how we might manage your moving on from this job. We can’t give a positive reference, but we’d be willing to stick to confirming the dates of your employ here” (presuming you are, of course). I also think it would be worth saying, just in case it makes a difference, that you don’t think he’s going to be able to find a job where he just gets to pursue what interests him, and that the way you find a job that comes close to that is by meeting expectations on the stuff people are relying on you to do even if that stuff isn’t very exciting to you.

    9. Temperance*

      Oh heck no. Nip this in the bud. He’s trying to weasel out of admin work, and that is straight up Not Okay.

    10. AdAgencyChick*

      Do you think part of the problem is that he doesn’t know how to manage his time, thinks that he can accomplish the “boring” part of his work (that IS his actual work) quickly, leaves it until the last minute, and then doesn’t do it?

      If you think that’s the case, and IF you want to give him another chance (because frankly, his asking to do the things he thinks are cool rather than being mortified that he missed a deadline, would not make me want to do that), then I would couple your statement of expectations to him with more frequent check-ins. Make it clear to him that eventually he’s going to need to be able to manage his time well on his own, but for now, you’re going to ask for frequent updates. By X date he needs to have done Y part of the project, two days later he needs to have Z done, and four days later it all needs to be done. And you check in and ask about these mini-updates, rather than just asking about the entire project on its due date.

      Personally, I’d do this only for someone who I think has a good attitude but is very inexperienced and simply doesn’t know how long it takes to do things and how to manage his time on a project that’s more than a couple of days in length.

    11. PollyQ*

      I’m sure it seems odd to have to do this, but apparently you’re going to have to sit him down and explicitly tell him, “When I tell you to do Thing X, you need to do Thing X, because I told you to do it, because that is your job, doing Thing X. If you are having trouble doing Thing X, come talk to me, and we will see how to move forward, but do not just go off and do Thing Y.”

    12. Daria Grace*

      Perhaps he needs a firm explanation of the ways work is different to university. Some very smart students are able to go through university turning in decent assignments/exams with very little effort and spending the rest of their time on personal projects or unofficial research interests. He perhaps doesn’t realise how different things are in the workforce, something working at a university might make worse.

  165. BronzeKat*

    Hi! With so many experts on this site, I figured I’d ask & see if any one could direct me to some rock-solid resources.

    There’s an event that had been volunteer-lead, within the structure of a university, but now professionals are the primary audience. Where would one go to learn how to run a conference as a business? Google has been giving me a lot of unrelated sites, so my research-fu is obviously not up to snuff. Also, is it possible to make it so companies can sponsor an event like this & receive a tax deduction, or is that for non-profits only?

  166. Anon16*

    I just don’t feel like working today. A full week of allergies and having trouble sleeping has culminated in an especially cranky Friday. I just wanted to vent.

  167. Crylo Ren*

    When my manager meets with anyone under her level (senior manager) in the org hierarchy, she seems to have no qualms about just breezing out of the meeting (after it has already started) to use the bathroom, grab something from the kitchen, or answer a non-urgent personal call from her husband. Often I or another coworker will be mid-sentence when she’ll just push away from the table and leave without a word, and return 10-15 minutes later, similarly without explanation. This happens in almost every meeting we’ve had regardless of time of day or meeting length.

    At first I just thought, “well, when nature calls” but I’ve noticed that she seems to be able to hold her urges without any problems if anyone higher-level is in the room. She’s sat through 90 minute meetings without problems. After noticing this, her behavior now seems incredibly disrespectful.

    I know her schedule and it’s not like she’s constantly in and out of meetings with no breaks; there’s ample time in between to do whatever biological things you need to do, and the fact that she doesn’t do these things if an exec is in the room just seems to make more obvious the fact that she doesn’t care how she comes off to people “below” her.

    Am I just being oversensitive? Should I say something to her? It’s at the point where some of my peers will give me significant glances when she leaves, and I feel really embarrassed, even though it’s not me who’s doing these things!

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      That sounds obnoxious so I don’t think you’re being oversensitive, but I have a hard time thinking that saying anything to her would be a good idea. It sounds like she knows what she’s doing and other people have picked up on it. I have huge issues with vicarious embarrassment, especially when I see someone doing something rude, but try and remember that this is on her, not on you!

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      You’re not oversensitive at all! She’s being terribly rude and unprofessional. Maybe you should say something to her before sitting down for a meeting. “Jane, I notice that you often leave abruptly during our meetings. We really want to discuss XXX, so would you mind giving us a heads-up if you need to leave, so we can plan accordingly?”

    3. ..Kat..*

      What would happen if you and your colleagues left after a few minutes? I mean she says nothing and just walks out! If she asks you later, “oh, I thought we were done.”

  168. animaniactoo*

    Now I’m just laughing at oddity. I’m temporarily in charge of all final approvals for our packaging, and I had a piece outstanding myself. So I was curious as to whether I could tag myself for approval in our project management software. I can. So I have now approved my own document and me has sent me an e-mail stating that I have approved my document. I’m seriously amused by this.

    1. The Rat-Catcher*

      I am our training admin and whenever I register for training, I get an email telling me to contact me if I have any questions. It makes me chuckle.

  169. Stephern*

    How long is the signature for your work email? What information do you include in yours?

    1. Camellia*

      Name Title
      Company Name
      Office Phone
      Email address (yes, I know I’m putting my email address in an email but reasons)

      1. ByLetters*

        Name
        Title
        Company Name
        Office Phone
        Office Email
        Office Address (Not for everyone, but the name of my workplace is one small word off from the name of a very similar office, so I like to clarify.)
        Company Logo
        Company Privacy Statement (I have an image of it in mouseprint.)

    4. Caledonia*

      mine is set as follows (landscape rather than portrait)

      Title, dept, address (it’s a long address, I work in higher ed), phone, email.

    5. Nan*

      Name Title
      Company name
      Phone Fax
      Full address of the location I work at
      email company website

      We have a set template to follow

    6. WG*

      I keep my relatively short – my name, title, department name, mailing address, office phone number, office fax number, and then the company logo. I don’t have an employer-issued cell phone; if I did I’d include that.

      Things that annoy me in a business email signature (and I’ve seen): photos, emoticons, and inspirational quotes.

    7. The Rat-Catcher*

      Name
      Title
      Org, Region
      Address
      Phone
      Fax
      Tiny-print confidentiality statement, because we have to

    8. animaniactoo*

      Name • Title
      Company • Direct Number

      formatted neatly so that both lines are equal length, but the top one is a larger typesize than the bottom.

    9. Epsilon Delta*

      Name
      Title
      Department
      Office Phone
      Cell Phone
      Email
      Company Name, Company Tagline, Facebook link, twitter link, linkedin link
      Mandatory JPEG celebrating our company’s ranking in some magazine

      Yes it’s absurd. Especially because we cannot even follow the social media links on our work computers!

    10. babblemouth*

      Main signature:
      Name
      Title
      Mobile phone
      Company name
      Company address
      Logo

      Signature just for replies:
      Name
      Title
      Mobile phone

    11. LCL*

      No canned sig. 99% of my contacts are internal. People in my group get my first name, lowercase. People outside the group that I talk to all the time get my full name. People outside the group and external customers get my full name and phone numbers. Our company maintains an excellent internal directory.

    12. meat lord*

      I’ve got my name, my title, my company, our main office phone number, and my direct line.

    13. Sparkly Librarian*

      Full Name
      Function, Office Location
      Name of Agency

      [sometimes, a 3-word phrase with a hyperlink to my personal-but-job-related website] OR [phone number to my office’s main desk if I’ve asked someone to call me or think they need it]

      My colleagues with atypical schedules will often include “I work Wednesday, Thursday, Friday”, which is a good clue as to when you’ll get a response.

    14. Hazel Asperg*

      Name
      Job Title
      Address, Telephone number

      I can’t imagine that anyone would need anything else due to the work that I do, but in previous roles I’ve added company logo, company website, FB and Twitter links too.

    15. Mrs. Fenris*

      I don’t send a ton of external emails. The ones I send to referral practices and so forth get: Mrs. Fenris, DVM, X Animal Hospital. The ones to pet owners say “Dr. Fenris :-)”

    16. Totes Anon*

      Default signature:
      Name
      Title
      Company
      Full mailing address
      Phone
      Fax
      Email

      Reply/short signature:
      Name
      Title
      Company
      Phone
      Email

  170. A*

    I posted about this in the “following your gut feeling” thread from earlier this week, regarding the bad feeling I got recently when I interviewed for a startup. Everything about the job seems perfect for me on paper, but something just seems off and I can’t put my finger on it. I think I may just be feeling imposter syndrome, since I’m coming from a large company with many people in my role to being the sole subject matter expert at the startup. Unfortunately they conducted the interview so poorly that I dont think they could possibly know if I am a good fit or not.

    The onsite interview I had was 4 hours and I met with 8 people in 30-minute slots. It was the most inefficient and disorganized interview I have ever had. They didn’t seem to know who was supposed to interview in which slot. Each interviewer asked the same “so tell me about yourself” question, which with followup questions took up most of the 30 minutes. Its a technical role, but not a single technical question was asked in a field where solving problems on a whiteboard is almost a given in interviews. I was supposed to hear back today about an offer, but instead they asked me for another 2 hour onsite. I’m having trouble at this point justifying why I should give them another 2 hours of my time when they will probably just waste it by continuing to ask about my work history and background. Or maybe they all met together to discuss and realized they didn’t actually know anything about my skills since they had all asked the same questions. I’ll probably just take the 2nd interview and see if they got their act together, but still its super frustrating.

    1. animaniactoo*

      You could reach back and ask what the purpose of the interview is and how it will be structured, and if you think it would be a waste of time, suggest something that you think will be more constructive and ask if that works for them.

      If you don’t get much mileage out of that (or doing the 2nd interview), since they’re a startup, would you feel comfortable saying something along the lines of “May I be candid? This interview process varies widely from what’s standard for my type of role, and it doesn’t seem to be very constructive in getting you the information you need about your candidates. Would you be open to some suggestions?”. Recognizing that you’re probably burning the bridge, but if they’re that disorganized you probably don’t want to work for them anyway and maybe you’ll help them/the rest of their candidate pool?

      1. Stella's Mom*

        This is a great reply – agree it may burn a bridge but it may also help them to become better at interviews and managing time, and organising themselves.

      2. A*

        Thank you, this is a good idea. I will definitely ask what the purpose of the 2nd interview is before I set anything up.

    2. A*

      I actually realized the other day that I didn’t even know who the hiring manager was. I was under the assumption that it was the first person I met with, but later realized that throughout the entire process nobody actually introduced themselves as the manager. I asked the recruiter via email and she said the manager I would report to just so happens to be the interviewer I disliked the most out of 8 interviewers. :(

  171. Adlib*

    Okay so, it’s my birthday, and I’ve had a relatively good day. That is, until one of our horrifying marketing directors asked me to do an SF330 PtII (for those of you who don’t know – an incredibly complicated gov’t form for proposals). I have to get data from finance and HR. It’s 2 hours until I leave for the day, and they apparently need it for an office in California TODAY. Also, our data is a mess so it takes forever to get this stuff together. There have been ongoing arguments about who should own this project.

    I’m not sure if I’ll be able to get it done today. Ideas for responses that they’re out of luck? Boss said to do my best, and I will, but I have serious doubts. At this point, I’m just waiting for the data to come back so I can START filling out the form.

    My boss wants to have a meeting on Monday about this. I can’t wait.

    1. Nan*

      “Well, people in hell want ice water” is one of my faves, but not work appropriate, unless you are very, very, very,very sure of your audience.

    2. Spoonie*

      Happy birthday! I have no experience what that form, but is it possible to at least fill in the pieces you can and have some gaps on the other parts until you get the data from other sources?

      1. Adlib*

        Thanks!!

        Actually, I did something similar. I passed it to the admin who is in the office that needs it and thus, on the same time zone. I gave her the data I have so far to fill in, and hope the rest comes in very soon! *fingers crossed*

    3. Adlib*

      I got the info, but then I was told we need even more detailed info. Oh well, I’m out! Go with what ya got!

    4. Adlib*

      I know this is “old” now, but this has completely blown up. The person submitting this proposal doesn’t “believe” the information on the form, and now the marketing “director” is emailing everybody in the company this morning (well, okay, 16 different managers or so) trying to figure out how to “fix” all of this by Noon eastern. I guess they got an extension. She has emailed people who 1) have no involvement in this from a legal company division standpoint 2) don’t care or 3) aren’t even in the office yet for the day.

      Honestly, I’m just hoping her spamming of people who aren’t involved or responsible for fixing this gets her a major hand slap. Sometimes people just need to be told to use the information they’re given and we’ll look into how to do better next time.

  172. Ada Lovelace*

    There is not a hole big enough to swallow me up. The top two buttons of my button down popped open. There was a substantial amount of cleavage showing (no bra luckily) but I spent an hour at a meeting with my boss and went to the cafeteria for lunch. I just noticed it as I went to put my headphones on back at my desk. How long was I flashing the world?!

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Oh no! That blows. Did you see the wardrobe malfunction post from earlier in the week? It may help to remember that many, many of us have been there! Also, it’s a hilarious thread.

    2. The Rat-Catcher*

      I am so sorry! This is my nightmare.
      If it helps, any decent boss or any boss that has had halfway decent harassment training is never going to bring that up, ever.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I was just standing having a dress pinned at a tailor for about 20 minutes and then discovered afterwards that I had been exposing far more of myself than intended the entire time. Solidarity!

  173. MegaMoose, Esq*

    I am now approaching two months since I embarked on my current networking journey by impulsively asking on Facebook if any of my contacts practiced rice sculpture law. I have met with four former law school classmates (two currently representing rice sculpture plaintiffs) and two previously unknown-to-me rice sculpture attorneys recommended by one of my classmates. The first three meetings, all with former classmates I was friends or friendly with, went pretty smoothly. However, the two meetings after that were kind of shaky. The first was a government defense attorney, while the second was a solo plaintiff attorney. By the end of last week I was feeling pretty discouraged and felt like I really needed to do some thinking before continuing.

    That said, momentum is kind of everything here, so on Monday I decided to contact another law school classmate, basically one of the nicest people I know. Instead of focusing on the area of law she practiced, I flat out said I’d been having trouble finding work and asked if she had any advice for entering private practice. We met for lunch yesterday, and it was hands down exactly what I needed. She was really encouraging, pointing out ways I could use my experience over the last couple of years to sell myself to employers, giving really on-the-nose tips on interviewing and networking, and suggesting a couple of areas of law I might want to consider. It’s not rice sculpture law, but I think I’ve got a good idea of where to go from here. I wish I’d recorded the entire conversation so I could listen to it when I get discouraged and because I’m sure I’m not remembering everything she said.

    I’m going to spend the weekend brainstorming again, but I did reach out to a recruiter yesterday afternoon and we’ve got a phone call planned for next week. I’m feeling pretty energized and hoping to keep this going. So my networking for introverts tip of the week – don’t feel bad to fall back on “easy” contacts. Worst case scenario, you have lunch/coffee with a pleasant individual. Best case scenario, they give you just the (gentle) kick in the pants you were needing.

  174. Lizabeth*

    Send good thoughts my way next week – we’re moving the office. Between all the crap we have to get rid of and the PTB putting their collective heads in the sand and going lalalalalllalallalal about the move, I’m more than ready to open a bottle of wine and get my hair colored – new grey showing daily. Plus we’re in a position with the building that the super has his greedy hand out for cash every time the freight elevator is used (head hitting keyboard)

    The only good thing is that the people taking away the discard furniture and electronics and the movers will be able to work at the same time so that will save us some cash!

    1. The Rat-Catcher*

      I boxed up the majority of our files for our big office move a couple of years ago. It’s horrid! I wore shorts to work one day even though we Don’t Do That, because it was July and the file room was stuffy and hot, and someone complained and I was livid. Luckily my supervisor shut the complainer down.

      1. Lizabeth*

        Fortunately the weather is in the low 50’s and th.e AC is running, plus the PTB aren’t on site. Soooooo….

  175. Can I just Say.....*

    …that ALL fundraising should be banned from the work place. Yeah I know there are some worthwhile causes out there but I think banning all fundraising is the only fair thing to do.
    I work for a large hospital system. Annual fundraiser for the specific disease my department treats is coming up, and we are being “encouraged” to sign-up and participate in the big annual fundraiser as a team from our department. This would not be a big deal to me except that we have also done mini fundraisers to be donated towards said fund-drive through out the year (we made and sold valentines candy bouquets, bake sale at the annual drug turn in day, Christmas baskets, etc.) I devote 40-60 hours a week to treating this disease. There are other things I want to do with my spare time and money but one of our directors is trying to guilt us into participating in the big fundraiser. And now we’re getting emails from corporate about making a donation to the charity they have decided to partner with. Will it never end? There are causes I want to donate to but I’m sick of being guilt-ed into donating to someone else’s pet charity when only certain “approved” charities/fundraisers can be advertised at work and the company will only match donation to those approved charities.
    Rant over

    1. The Rat-Catcher*

      That sounds horrible! We have lots of people fundraising at work, selling Girl Scout cookies, candy bars, or the like, but it’s always just an email. “Hey, my kid is selling X for Y, there’s a sign-up sheet at my cube” and that’s the end of it. This sounds way over the line.

    2. neverjaunty*

      Hand the tickets to the guilt trip right back. Why should you feel guilty? Instead of thinking “oh geez, this is a good charity and this person really just wants a few bucks” or whatever else is leading you to give in, remind yourself what you just said here: it is your money, and you are making appropriate choices already about charitable donations.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I used to say, “I work like I am three people. That is my donation. It’s up to you to figure out how to get maximum value out of my donation.”
      I am sorry you are dealing with this. It pretty much taxes my patience also. Maybe if they did less fundraisers more actual work would get done and there would be less need for fundraisers.

  176. CubeKitteh*

    I thought my current situation might amuse some of the readers here so I thought I would share. I’m already job searching, so this is more of a sharing of the train wreck. I work for a fairly large company that has just acquired several additional companies. As a result, our HR department decided to “streamline” everyone’s roles into a new structure with new titles. Think “people leaders” instead of managers. I work in a compliance role with counterparts in another state. When the restructure was rolled out, I and two fellow compliance team members were effectively given a demotion while our counterparts remained analysts. (My new title is Associate.) I raised the issue with my manager and was advised that he would be pushing back but couldn’t make any promises. So cue the job search.

    Last week, our company distributed an updated compliance policy detailing how one of my specific job functions should be handled. Specifically, it stated that our job functions should only be handled by a “compliance analyst.” You can image our shock when we found that we were in violation of our company’s compliance policy after the HR restructure because we were misclassified. It’s been nearly three weeks and no updates have been given regarding our situation, and I am continuing to job hunt. But I had to share. At this point, I can’t even be angry anymore. It’s just so ridiculous!

  177. marmaladechainsaw*

    I’m kind of late to this thread, but I always get excellent advice from this blog so I thought I’d give it a shot!

    My partner works at a job three hours away from where we live, and obviously we aren’t happy about the arrangement. Since he loves his job and I’m ready for a change, I’m the one trying to find a new job in the new city. We would both prefer if I could find a new one before we move, which is proving challenging (I had no delusions that it wouldn’t be!).

    My issue is that very recently I was off on an extended leave for 2 major surgeries (I just came back to work around 3 weeks ago) and my company policy is to use up all our sick/vacation time before FMLA kicks in. Meaning, I have no time off right now! So, even if I get a call for an interview, I would have a difficult time going (since I would have to take off an entire day so I could drive three hours to get there).

    My question: is it unheard of to ask for an interview on the weekend? The type of job I’m looking for is at a business that is definitely open to the public on the weekends, but I’m not sure if it would be too much to ask. My only other option would be to just call off work that day and take it without pay (which I’m totally prepared to do if I have to)!

    Besides that, does anyone have any tips/tricks to getting a call for an interview when you don’t live locally but are relocating there soon? I’ve only applied to a few places and haven’t heard back–obviously it could be for any number of reasons but I have a feeling not being local might be part of it.

    Thanks to anyone who reads/responds! I always appreciate any advice!! (=

      1. marmaladechainsaw*

        He actually rents out an apartment there during the work week, so yes, I could probably swing that!

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Unless you are an industry with very different norms, I’m afraid asking to interview on the weekend is going to come across as very unusual. As a hiring manager, I can’t really imagine agreeing to this (unless you were a standout, heads-and-shoulders-above-the-others candidate, and you were apologetic but clear that you simply couldn’t interview during the week).

      1. marmaladechainsaw*

        Gotcha! Yeah that’s kind of what I figured but thought I’d ask. Thanks for your input!

  178. millennial falcon*

    I’ve gone to two sessions with a career counselor (my parents are paying) and am not sure whether I should continue. Admittedly, I am kind of in a rough place mental health-wise, which mutually reinforces the job difficulties, and got teary during both sessions.

    The counselor- let’s call her “Margaret”- has very different ideas about business from AAM. Now, I know AAM’s word isn’t law, but I think the approach might not be one that works for me.

    -Margaret conducted the first session in a lounge area at her (VERY fancy) apartment building. My mom was weirded out by that, saying it was insufficiently private for personal discussions. Other people were in the room but not next to us.

    -Margaret suggests adding a section about my interests to my resume and including things like music and theater. (Not applying for performing arts jobs at the moment.) She suggested I could add “cultural diversity” or “international travel” to my interests because I studied abroad (the study abroad program is already on my resume.) I told her that felt like weird, contrived phrasing. I question whether non-business interests belong there at all.

    -I mentioned at the second session that I was talking to some contacts about computer science, which I’m not very knowledgeable about but am curious. She said “I don’t think you want to be a computer scientist.” She did encourage me to explore CS if I was interested, but it weirded me out a little that that was her initial response.
    -she suggested adding “Microsoft Office” as a skill on my resume when I don’t have any more than basic Word formatting and the barest minimum of Excel data entry- I can’t do pivot tables or anything. I have been assuming my level of Office is just baseline skill for a 21st century applicant. Is that true?

    On the other hand, she genuinely seems to believe I can succeed and praises my skills. She suggested applying for a particular internship as a way to boost my confidence, which I think is good. I just feel horribly lost and adrift right now and am not sure whether Margaret’s approach is making me feel any less so. The most productive things I have done lately- reaching out to contacts and starting a programming tutorial- I figured out on my own. I was deciding between her and another counselor, but the other one is even pricier. Thoughts?

    1. Dienna Howard*

      If Margaret’s giving bad and misguided advice, in a semi-public place at that, then it’s a waste of money to continue seeing her. At the same time, your parents shouldn’t pay for another career counselor who’s more expensive.

      It seems that you’re taking the steps you need to on your own and using resources such as this site. Do you feel it’s necessary to have a career counselor? Discuss this with your parents.

      1. millennial falcon*

        Thanks for the reality check! I will elaborate further on my situation in a comment below.

      1. millennial falcon*

        Honestly, that’s the thing I feel most lost about. I don’t really know.

        I’m trying to find a way out of my mildly-specialty-retail job, which pays poorly and is unfulfilling, even if I do like the products. I’ve applied for customer service jobs at companies and organizations in the science industry, which ties in with my college major. (I tried bench lab work and found it really wasn’t for me.) I should probably continue with that approach. I would be interested in some sort of research work, but don’t have any experience working with stats, which is usually what you need to be in research without being at the bench.
        Essentially, I’ll take what I can get so long as it’s better-paid and/or more fulfilling than where I am now.

    3. MegaMoose, Esq*

      If you don’t feel comfortable with this counselor and your parents are willing to pay, I think you should give the other counselor a shot. Having a point of comparison can’t hurt, right? And it’s probably a better use of money than a third session with someone that doesn’t seem to be helping. And definitely keep up with reaching out to contacts and doing tutorials.

      I guess I can’t speak to the value of her advice without having a better idea of what you’re applying for, although it doesn’t necessarily sound egregious on its own – I know that during law school when (most) people don’t have much in the way of relevant experience, we are encouraged to include an interests section to help flesh things out, and international travel doesn’t strike me as an awful thing to list (cultural diversity sounds kind of silly). I wouldn’t add MS Office if you’re just at basic formatting level either, but again, in my field that level of computer fluency is assumed. But again, if you’ve gone twice and feel weird about it, trust yourself and give the other person a try.

      1. millennial falcon*

        I’m absolutely going to keep up with reaching out to contacts and doing tutorials! See my reply to Temperance above with what I’m looking for in terms of a job.

        I’m not sure about going to the other counselor, honestly. I may just want to try it on my own for a while. But thank you for the reality check!

    4. Rincat*

      I don’t think Margeret is really necessary, or even another counselor. It sounds like you are doing some good things.

      Microsoft Office – yeah, that’s kind of assumed you have basic competence and doesn’t belong on a resume. It’s not anything really special. I wouldn’t list it in your skills section, and the only place I would add it is if you were getting some kind of job that specifically mentioned high proficiency in Excel (like BI analyst or something) – and then I’d just work that into the job duties areas.

      Also I think it’s weird that she said “don’t be a computer scientist.” Computer science encompasses a HUGE range of things and it’s not just computer science = scientist. CS can be extremely helpful for many different fields. Definitely learn some programming – those are good skills to have, and programming courses are small, tangible goals that will help you feel more focused and accomplished.

      Interests section – eh no. I don’t think anything non-work related belongs on a resume. The study abroad program is plenty.

      Good luck and I wish you the best!

      1. millennial falcon*

        Thank you! I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who finds her advice weird.

    5. Ask a Manager* Post author

      What are Margaret’s qualifications? Because right now she sounds … not good. If the only good thing you’re getting from her is that she seems to believe you can succeed and praises your skills — well, you’re probably going to get that from any career counselor. She needs to bring something to the table stronger than that.

      1. millennial falcon*

        Hello Alison! Thanks for the reply and for sharing your thoughts!

        Margaret’s bio states that she has an MA in counseling and has been a counselor at some pretty prestigious academic institutions. I wonder how things worked out for the students there. To be fair, she did give me a “personal values inventory” exercise that I found to be helpful, and gave me the StrengthsFinder assessment to take. I thought the StrengthsFinder insight report included a lot of qualifying language which made it sound a bit like cold reading, but that might be neither here nor there.

        I’m not sure what I’ll do from now on, but I may try to go it alone without a counselor. This blog is such a valuable resource, and I’m grateful to you for providing it!

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Ah, so those aren’t really credentials for advising you on your resume — you want someone who’s done a significant amount of hiring. She doesn’t have any firsthand experience to draw on. The fact that she feels competent to advise you (badly) on your resume and doesn’t realize why she’s not makes me worry the rest of her advice is suspect too. I would not go back!

        2. Little Missy*

          I am a career counselor at a university and I agree with Alison. You need someone who knows what real employers want and how to edit your resume so that what you have done will reflect that. What Margaret has done for you is certainly valuable for self-knowledge and what you might bring to the table in a team setting. But if that’s all she did at her prestigious positions for her students, then they succeeded in landing jobs without her. In fact, she may have worked at places where the students would have been fine either way (coming in with a built-in network from their parents or other alumni they knew, plus the school’s reputation).

    6. babblemouth*

      You sound like you know how to write your CV, and have ideas for which directions you want to explore, so a career counselor sounds a bit redundant. You mention you are in a rough place mental-health wise. Would it be worth asking your parents if the money going to the career counselor could be redirected to mental-health guidance (assuming you’re not already getting help there)?

      1. millennial falcon*

        I am already going to a psychologist! It feels like two steps forward and one step back, partly because I think that’s the natural course of mental health a lot of the time, but at least my psychologist is competent and understanding and respects my decisions.

        It’s the exploring different directions thing I worry about. Computer science isn’t something I know a lot about, so I don’t want to throw myself behind it only to find out that (like being a bench researcher) it isn’t for me.

    7. Imaginary Number*

      I wonder how your parents found Margaret. I wonder if it was just a “friend of a friend” sort of thing. Meeting someone in a public are of her apartment? That’s just unprofessional. I could understand someone working out of a home office, but just using public space of said apartment building? She sounds like one of those people who have no idea what to do with their lives themselves and decide to become a “life coach.” (Yes, I know there are some really good legitimate ones out there, but most I’ve come across meet that description.)

      “Cultural diversity” as a hobby/interest is totally contrived phrasing and would be icky-sounding to most people. International travel a little less so. If you’re going to put down outside interests it’s not a terrible one, especially if the job requires a lot of travel. Kind of signals that you’re more than willing to put up with it.

      And I think you’re absolutely right in that “Microsoft Office” is not a skill in itself in today’s day and age.

      If you’re interested in computer science, getting good at excel isn’t a terrible place to start. Excel has a built-in macro language called “Visual Basic for Applications”. It’s a very easy language to start with and useful in a lot of workplaces because you can create simple tools in excel for other people to use. Microsoft Access and SQL are another useful tool that goes beyond basic “MS Office” knowledge.

      1. Anna Held*

        See, I’m disagreeing about leaving Microsoft Office on your resume because SO MANY job ads specifically ask for it. If you need to brush up on certain aspects, spend some time on that on your own so you’re more confident about it, but if you’re seeing the sorts of job descriptions I’m seeing, I vote you leave it on there.

      2. millennial falcon*

        My parents didn’t actually find Margaret at all! They suggested that I see a career counselor and told me they’d pay, and I found Margaret on the Internet. See my reply to Alison above- she actually does have credentials.

        Don’t worry, I’m not going to put unrelated interests on my resume! I think listing the name of my study abroad program and its host university, plus the language major I was applying those classes toward, is more than enough to tell people about that part of my life.

        As for computer science, right now I’m starting with a Python tutorial. I’m enjoying it so far!

    8. meat lord*

      Oh, wow. Margaret does not sound like a competent counselor, career or no. If you’re not already seeing a regular counselor, you might get more out of straight-up mental health care, since you’re going through a rough patch.

    9. Daria Grace*

      You are right about the Office thing. Basic office skills are assumed. You’d only usually list quite advanced office skills.

      I would not put much weight on the fact that she genuinely seems to believe I you succeed and praises your skills. While you don’t want a coach who hates you, it’s in her best interests to make you feel good so you’ll keep paying her money for more appointments.

      Would you perhaps be better off spending the money on a more generally focused counselor/psychologist who can held you with motivation, routine development and coping strategies you can then use in service of job hunting tactics you already know to be sound?

    10. Daria Grace*

      And please don’t put cultural diversity as an interest on your resume. It sounds contrived and pretentious. I’ve published in an academic journal on the topic of cultural diversity and I wouldn’t do it. As for international travel, there’s a risk of that reading to employers as this person may want regular extended leave to travel.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        +1. Yikes. I actually think these things would just sound snowflakey.

        Keep talking to the CS contacts!

      2. millennial falcon*

        Don’t worry, I won’t do that! And yes, I’m already seeing a psychologist. I just need to re-commit to both job searching and using techniques my psychologist recommends.

  179. I am not Kimmy Gibler*

    I’m beginning to think there’s something wrong with me. I’ve been working a long time and in the last 12 years or so, I’ve had four jobs. I’ve left 3 of them on not great terms, though I’m not sure why. (Still in job #4). In all the jobs except for 1, all was well until suddenly it wasn’t. Sorry, this is a little long, but I’m trying to provide some context.

    Job #1, I gave notice. Boss was gracious. Then suddenly a project I was working on hit the fan (even though I had given my boss ample warning multiple times – verbally and in writing – that I was having difficulty with the vendor, they did nothing and I had no authority to resolve the problem.) Since I gave notice, they basically threw me under the boss and my 2 week notice was shortened to end of the week.

    Job #2 – Totally my bad. Didn’t get along with my boss. Was the type of employee who constantly tried to fix things. Whole thing blew up in my face.

    Job #3 – Worked there for 3 years with perfectly good reviews – no warnings, discussions, sit downs… when I got passed over for promotion. Boss gave me vague reason as to why. When I asked for examples, I was told that she didn’t want to violate confidences. Things got worse. I was put on a PIP. Found a new job and left before they could fire me. (FYI – this situation also happened to two other colleagues around the same time)

    Job #4 – Have been here also for 3 years. All good. Got promoted quickly. Great reviews, told I’m awesome. New position is created and given to colleage (no application process). I’m the most senior in the department and once again I feel like I was passed over. Again no constructive feedback despite asking what skills I should improve/work on.

    I know the saying. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. But what happens when I’m being fooled on a regular basis?

    1. KiteFlier*

      I don’t think you’re being fooled .. these four situations are not the same at all.
      Job#1 – You resigned amicably, it blew up after your resignation – the blow up was not the reason you left.
      Job #2 – Okay, you didn’t get along in your boss, but in what way? Did you take what you learned from the situation at this job and use it to better your professional relationships after this? You don’t mention if you were fired or left on your own. Little information here.
      Job #3 – It sounds like you did what you could after not being promoted. There are a lot of reasons why one person might be chosen over another for a position, and seniority is a small piece of it. Yes, they should have given you better feedback when asked. Just because you weren’t promoted doesn’t mean you weren’t performing well, but it looks like that’s how you took it.
      Job #4 – I see no problems other than that you didn’t get a promotion. Yes, you asked for feedback again and as you’ve seen, some people are just bad at giving it. Not getting a promotion does not mean you are underperforming or about to be fired. It sounds like things are going well otherwise.

      I’m not sure I see an actual question in your comment. I would ask yourself why you take not getting a promotion so seriously that it seems to effect your work negatively. Yes, it can be a demoralizing, but it can also be a great chance to prove yourself and work hard for the next promotion. You have to ask to move up, it’s not always as simple as a position above you opening and they shuffle you in.

    2. The Rat-Catcher*

      The only commonality I really see here is between 3 and 4. I can’t tell from these examples if you have talked with your managers about your promotion goals. If you have not, it’s great that you’re asking about skills to improve and they absolutely should be providing that feedback, but they may not be equating that conversation with “I want to move up.”
      It’s worth saying “The next time X position or one like it opens up, I’d love to be considered,” and then asking your question about what to work on.
      If you’ve made your ambitions clear, I don’t have any further advice for you, but I do have good wishes!

      1. I am not Kimmy Gibler*

        Thank you both for your comments! Reading over what I wrote, I think the issue I’m having is the lack of feedback I’m receiving from my bosses. For the most part I take responsibility for the lack of feedback I received in my older jobs as it may have appeared I wasn’t open to receiving it (and I may not have been) OR I should have asked in a more direct fashion. But the last two times, I did specifically and respectfully ask for feedback that would improve my chances of being considered for promotional opportunities in the future. And in both cases, the feedback was either extremely vague: In Job #3, I was told I did my job, but didn’t go beyond my job. When I asked for examples, my boss refused to give any. She was worried about the “confidentiality” of those who might have provided examples of this. In Job #4, I was told that I was doing everything right.

        So I guess my question (which may not be answerable) is what what can I do to get more actionable feedback to grow in my job? Although, I’m a relatively reserved person, I don’t think that I’m not communicating this need. I’ve had several conversations with my current boss about the work I’m doing. (At one point I was even told she was trying to get me a promotion, which never materialized) Maybe I’m taking things at face value too seriously or there could be subtleties that I’m just not getting. (I’m not good with subtlety.)

        I don’t know. I’m not sure it’s answerable without having a full on conversation about each of my situations, which isn’t really possible here. But I appreciate you both listening to what might be just a long vent session!

        1. Anna Held*

          This could just be bad luck. It seems that you’ve identified communication as an issue, though (being not good with subtlety is part of this) so I’d work on that. Try to do concrete things like meet with your manager often to discuss the progress of your work and your own development. You can always do this by email and meet less frequently if she doesn’t have time. Document your own achievements and bring them up at appropriate times. Ask for feedback on specific aspects of your job, i.e. proactively identify a problem and solicit advice or get approval. I’m a big fan of sending periodic updates of what I’ve been working on and how I’ve been doing. I suspect they’re only skimmed, but that’s ok — my boss has been warned about possible complications, I get to tout achievements and give a nice gloss, but I strive for honest, informative, and not too wordy. My boss is offsite, so ymmv. Too much of this stuff and you come off as needy, not proactive.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      It could be just me, but from what I have seen myself and in others around me, these experiences seem pretty normal to me.
      I have often thought the longer we stay with a job the harder it gets. Lots of reasons for this.

      Every job offers opportunities that no other job offers. Look around for those opportunities. Take what you CAN get. I know that sounds trite but it has value in saying because it’s easy to forget. It’s easy to see the hole in the middle and not notice the donut. Build up as many random skills as you can. Grab any special projects within your reach. These things are just a feather in your cap because you have grown yourself and your resume.
      Carry the same attitude at home, build up your personal life as well. Yeah, it’s important because it reduces the sting of these situations some what. If you know you have grown your professional self, or developed your personal life in some way there can be a lesser sense of loss. I had one crappy job that I lasted over a decade at. One of the reasons I lasted was because I had a list of personal goals. I hit everything on my list before I left that job. My goals carried me through a lot.

      I never saw myself doing what my parents did, which is get a job stay at it for decades and then retire. It helped to admit that to myself.

  180. Eternal Nap*

    What do you do when you’re so fatigued and stressed from your job that your bones hurt? I’m in my mid-ish 20s and I’ve never felt so much Actual Bodily Pain just from being stressed and tired in my life (and I suffer from depression, I feel like that’s kind of saying something). But I can’t take a vacation, or really even a long weekend or a day off at any point because there’s not really anyone reliable covering my workload (and a host of other shenanigans that it’d take me all day to talk about). I work full time with weekends off, but even my weekends have been hectic and frustrating for various reasons. I feel like I can’t get a second to take a deep breath!

    How do you de-stress when you can’t get 5 seconds to de-stress? Help me, I’m losing my mind.

    1. WG*

      The best answer is – take time off. If your employer has chosen not to provide coverage for vacations, that’s their issue, not yours. I was you when I was younger – conscientious and dedicated to my own detriment. It has taken me several decades to finally realize that killing myself for the job isn’t worth it.

      I’m not perfect and I still overwork – but not to the point that my health suffers.

    2. Amber Rose*

      You take it anyway. Whether anyone can reliably cover you or not is NOT YOUR PROBLEM. I mean, if you quit tomorrow, they’d still have to cover that stuff, and they would find a way to do it.

      As for shenanigans, pretend they don’t exist. Decide on some time you want to not be working, and tell your boss or whoever that you can’t be working at that time and ask them how you can make that happen.

    3. babblemouth*

      Take the time. If you quit tomorrow, or disappeared for a week with appendicitis, or decided to leave the civilised world and be a hermit hearding goats, your employer would find a way to cover for you, somehow. They will find a way if you take a few days.
      If anyone makes you feel guilty for taking the holidays you’re legally entitled to have, consider looking for a new job.

    4. Daria Grace*

      If you are legitimately sick (which sounds like the case) then you have the right to take sick days. Your company’s disorganisation and stinginess doesn’t cancel that out.

      If you’re able to, please go to your doctor for a thorough checkup and round of blood tests. Being that tired and in pain might just be stress, but there could also be an underlying condition that’s triggering it.

    5. PollyQ*

      I STRONGLY recommend you see a doctor for a physical. Maybe the Actual Bodily Pain is due to stress, but it also might be some other physical problem. (I say this from experience–I though I was problems catching my breath and sleeping due to being out of shape and having allergies, but it turned out to be an issue with my heart.)

    6. neverjaunty*

      Your vacation is just like your paycheck – it’s something your employer gives you in return for your work. Take the time!

      Having been there and done that, if you find yourself in a job where incompetence and shenanigans mean you never get to take vacation, it’s time to get out. A well-run workplace does not collapse into chaos when someone takes a week or two off.

    7. Anna Held*

      Job search. It’ll probably add to your stress level, but start anyway. It sounds like you positively need to get out of there for the sake of your health. You can get a new job, but you can’t get a new body. Take a couple days off to destress, then a couple more to start on your job search.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Your job is making you sick and you need to leave.

      Check your basics:
      Drink PLENTY of water. Water is very helpful in reducing pain.
      Get a drink with electrolytes in it. Minerals help the brain to function.
      I have had good luck with eating chicken or salmon. I noticed that I felt more put together the next day.
      Load up on salads, raw veggies can be very supportive. Eating simpler foods also helps with mental clarity.
      How’s your vitamin D doing?
      Practice slow deep breaths, this is nice when you first get into bed, it will probably help you sleep a little better.

      Figure out if a task is necessary or if you are just doing it for nonsensical reasons. This goes for at home also.

      My life spun out of control in my 30s. Unfortunately, I was the only one who could bring it back under control. Start by looking at the parts of your life and your work that you are willing and able to work on TODAY, And each day, tweak something that you are doing, make small changes but keep making them.

  181. Elizasaurus*

    Ugh, weird intersection between work life and personal life ahoy.

    I work at an org that has volunteers; they don’t directly report to me, but I can give them projects. I had noticed lately that one of our volunteers, who is my age, had been acting a little too friendly – I got the impression that he liked me, and so while I was still cordial I started pulling back a little in my interactions with him, which seemed to help.

    Come to find out yesterday that he has found my dating profile (I found this out through a junior coworker he talks with, not through him contacting me).

    My initial reaction is to just nuclear option my online dating life! We are in a comparatively small town and I work a lot so online dating is really one of my few options for meeting people, but at the same time I don’t want this to ever happen again. Something about this just skeeves me out, but friends are saying I prioritize work too much anyway and should keep it since he didn’t actually contact me.

    I will note – the volunteer is very nice and not creepy in any way, I just feel weird about it!

    (Also, thank you to everyone who encouraged me last week – I’m still stressed but I’m feeling miles better!)

    1. jamlady*

      If you want to keep it, keep it! It’s just a profile like any other, and I wouldn’t worry about it unless he contacts you. Then you can just handle it from there. Since he sounds like a nice guy, he might be planning on sticking with the professional boundary. I wouldn’t worry!

    2. Zathras*

      I think it’s not actually unusual to occasionally spot people you know on dating websites. My roommate once had someone we both know come up in his, and we live in a largish city with lots of young people. I wouldn’t torch your profile, especially since he didn’t contact you or bring it up to you directly.

      Think of it like this – suppose you ran into him at the store because you both were buying condoms or something else normal but private, and happened to end up in that aisle at the same time. Awkward, right? But the appropriate reaction in that situation is to just move along and pretend it didn’t happen. If he does bring it up inappropriately, that’s when you address that and shut it down (or get your boss to shut it down for you if he doesn’t stop).

      Also, if junior coworker brought it up in a gossipy way, don’t feed that puppy.

    3. Anna Held*

      I’d try to identify why this skeeves you out. Is it him? Is it that you were already a bit conflicted about online dating? Is it the lack of privacy with so much being online, especially if you’re in a small town? I hate to tell you to ignore your feelings — I’m a big believer in go with your gut — but if he’s genuinely nice and non-creepy, you’re probably ok. But let me ask you this: if you want to date, he’s nice, and he’s only a volunteer, why not date him? Is your answer “It’s not professional” or is it “Ew, no”?

  182. Tired*

    Just sad, frustrated and venting… There’s all sorts of drama going on in my org right now. My department is breaking down. Applied for another internal position, and boss who used to *love* me and gave me stellar reviews is now giving me the silent treatment. But then shortly after, found out that upper management is having all sorts of restructuring chaos, too, so now I’m not even sure who’s reviewing my internal application or if it was even looked at.

    Not sure what to do :/ just venting and hoping I still have a viable career in a few months. The AAM community is one of the only things keeping me sane right now!

  183. Dienna Howard*

    Craigslist is one of the many sites I use to look for jobs (along with Idealist, Indeed, USAJobs…). Though I feel job listings there are hit or miss I continue to use it, because after separating the wheat from the chaff (and there’s a lot of chaff) I can find one or two legitimate listings.

    Has anyone here found a job on there?

    1. De Minimis*

      It’s how I found my current job [non-profit in the Bay Area.] We post there and on Idealist usually, but I’d say almost all of our activity is from Craigslist. I think it varies on where a person lives as far as the usefulness of Craiglist.

      Speaking of USAJobs, I am not the biggest fan of their latest site overhaul.

    2. Pwyll*

      I found a job I was happy in for 6 years on Craigslist that had surprisingly scant details (because it was a small business and they were letting go of their only admin, so they refused to put any identifying details). But it’s certainly time consuming to sift though.

    3. Not Karen*

      Yes, but it was at an obscure local two-man business in a niche market. They didn’t even have a website. It was fine for the six months I needed a job before grad school, but being so small there was no long-term potential or anything like that.

    5. New Bee*

      I also found a nonprofit job in the Bay Area on there, though this was about 6 years ago.

  184. Lazy Admin*

    I’ve been asked to create a detailed set of instructions on a software program, so that my coworkers can reference it when they start using the program. The software manufacturer has a quick reference guide that’s pretty comprehensive, but it lacks pictures. If I retype the relevant sections of that, and add in my own screenshots of each step, is that plagiarism or just working smarter? (I haaaaaaaaaaaaate writing, to the point of heavy anxiety/avoidance, so coming up with all original wording would take me forever and I’d cry tears of blood the whole way.)

      1. Lazy Admin*

        By “reference” do you mean “copy?” because that’s probably what I’m going to do.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Is this for internal use only? If so, I don’t see why you couldn’t use the existing reference guide, clearly label it as such, and insert your own images.

      1. Lazy Admin*

        I can’t insert pictures into their guide, it’s a PDF document. Oh hey, Word can import and convert a PDF…. If I leave their cover sheet on, that makes it clear enough that I cribbed it, right?

    3. MegaMoose, Esq*

      If it’s not being released to the public, I say do it, just stick a link or citation at the bottom referencing the manufacturer’s guide.

  185. Jordyne Jastram*

    Hello, So i have an employee who refuses to follow our no mustache policy. He has 3 write up sfor this, but my boss wont let me fire him. Is it legal to take him off the schedule until he follows that policy? I work in California. We do not want to pay unemployment..

    1. Andraste*

      What’s the purpose of the policy? If breaking the policy isn’t a fireable offense, is there any value in keeping the policy in the first place?

      1. Imaginary Number*

        Was the no mustache policy in place when the person was hired? Making someone change their facial hair after they already started is a little ridiculous.

        This may or may not be relevant but I think it’s interesting. Facial hair policies can be very tricky if you run into a situation where you have female employees who get a bit of growth (which I think is totally fine!) Many people are going to be uncomfortable/unwilling telling a female employee that she needs to start shaving, but then you run into a situation where you’re enforcing different standards in male and female employees.

    3. De Minimis*

      I would guess that it is legal, even in California, unless there’s some legitimate religious practice involving having a mustache that I’m not aware of [I know that beards sometimes need to be allowed as part of religious accommodation but haven’t heard anything about mustaches.]

      1. MegaMoose, Esq*

        Shaving policies have also run into problems with racial discrimination – there have been successful cases by African-American men who are apparently more prone to skin disorders that makes shaving painful.

    4. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Oh man, California state law is really complicated. I mean, if you’re legally allowed to fire him then presumably you’re legally allowed to take him off the schedule, but depending on California unemployment law, that might make him eligible for benefits. In my state you can claim unemployment for a reduction in hours so long as the reduction was not due to misconduct. Violating company rules probably counts as misconduct, but states vary and I would definitely not hazard a guess as to how California would address it.

    5. neverjaunty*

      Your company should be asking this of a California employment lawyer. Employment law is complicated, California employment law more so.

    6. dawbs*

      This isn’t the question you asked…
      But is this policy worth the bad-will and infantilizing morale issues it’s likely to cause employees when they think their facial hair is somehow being seen as more important than their other attributes?

      Because I have to say, as a person w/ no facial hair, it’d bum me the heck out if I thought hair, facial or otherwise, was getting people hired or fired at my employer.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      It looks like your hands are tied here.
      I’d ask the boss what he expects you to do. Basically you are in a position where you probably will end up ignoring the mustache.

  186. blorf*

    Y’all, I would love your advice. I just got an offer I was really excited about–pay increase, flexible schedule, convenient location, great Glassdoor reviews. But I looked up the person I would be reporting to and saw that they got in trouble for sexual harassment sometime ago. It WAS a long time ago, and people seem to really enjoy working for the company. How worried would you be? This is really throwing me for a loop.

    1. Imaginary Number*

      If you didn’t interview with your new manager, can you ask to meet with him/her before accepting the offer? I would be worried, but meeting with the person would at least give you the peace of mind knowing whether or not they’re a total and obvious creeper.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I’d be quite worried. A lot of sexual harassment goes unreported. The fact that this actually led to the person getting in trouble is a big deal. I don’t believe people can’t change, but I also don’t think people who have sexually harassed in the past should get the benefit of the doubt. The onus is really on them to prove themselves really changed.

      1. blorf*

        yeah, that’s how I’m feeling too. It’s so gross! And it was multiple women who reported him. Aaaaargh. Darn :(

    3. meat lord*

      Yeesh. I’d be worried. Personally, I wouldn’t take the job if I knew I would be reporting to someone who had officially gotten in trouble for sexual assault. I don’t trust creeper-types, and I don’t trust them to change their ways.

  187. pope suburban*

    Just a minor etiquette question. I applied for a job with a local government organization, and made it to the skills-testing phase. They use a local branch of a big staffing agency to do their testing (Those computerized Office/Excel tests), and when someone from the agency called me to schedule my test (There was some other weirdness there; they forgot to call some of the candidates, so I reached out to the gov’t HR person, who cleared it up), they started asking me questions about where I worked now and why I wanted to leave. They were trying to get me into their candidate pool while I was scheduling a test through the organization I’d applied for. I thought it was pretty pushy and weird, but was it really? And if it is weird and pushy, is this the kind of thing the HR person would like to know? It smacks of the staffing agency trying to poach the government org’s clients, but I’d like a perspective check in case it’s just my natural aversion to sales behaviors talking.

    1. Totes Anon*

      That seems weird and pushy to me, but I’ve never applied to a government org so I don’t know if it’s something that’s rude but commonplace, or something completely weird that the govt org would like to know about.

      Presumably the staffing agency is thinking that if the test candidates they deal with don’t get the govt job they might sign up with the agency, and they’re not actively trying to remove candidates from the govt org’s pool, so it’s not so much swiping candidates as it is taking advantage of knowing who’s looking – but that’s still weird and doesn’t speak highly to their professionalism IMO.

      I don’t think I would say anything to the govt org’s HR unless the pushiness continued while I was trying to take the test, but I would definitely steer clear of this staffing agency in future.

  188. Me*

    I went to Temp Agency That Begins With K this week to see if they could find something for me. Last time I was unemployed and tried them, they were very unfriendly and treated me like garbage. The other two temp agencies never had anything for me so I didn’t bother; one of them I worked with for a whole year before OldExJob hired me, but in 2012, they had nothing.

    This time, I guess my application was more impressive, plus I aced the Word and typing tests. They’re in a different location, so maybe these are different people? I don’t know. I had an interview with them on Thursday and it went very well and they had something to suggest right off–but when she emailed me the link to the job, it wasn’t in the company’s listings. At all. I searched every way I could think of and it’s just not there. I emailed back thinking the company might have pulled it, and they said they’d check and get back to me. So today, the receptionist called me, started to tell me what was going on, got interrupted and flustered by something else, told me she would call me back. And never did.

    *sigh* I knew it was a waste of time. I guess I’ll call on Monday and ask for the other person and see what’s going on.

    Also, I got a Google Voice number to put on the resume I send to blind ads and if I’m not sure of the company. I think I’ll put it on my business card too. Just for giggles, I chose a Los Angeles number (wishful thinking? Heh heh). Let places in California figure THAT one out. Maybe they’ll see the city I live in and the number and think I’m from there. I’ve been very explicit about the fact I want to move. I should probably put it on all my resumes, if I’m uploading them through job boards.

    1. sometimeswhy*

      I did scientific temping in three states over several years for a while including through a company that starts with a K and has other specialty arms: each office was different. VASTLY different. Even six months later a previous office I’d had issues with would be fine.

      Also, a lot of the positions never went up on the company job boards. Some will do that to keep people from applying directly.

      Good luck!

      1. Me*

        *facepalm*
        Yeah, I think we have one of the bad ones. I got an email from K person about that job, and not only was the original req still on it (and still wrong), but she put in the job title, which was Logistics Coordinator. She said this was an administrative position.

        It wasn’t even close. It required (that’s the word they used) three to five years of freight management experience, some kind of certificate I have never heard of let alone have, and the listing said advanced math skills. WTF lady, we sat right there and discussed my dyscalculia, IN DETAIL, for twenty minutes. Weren’t you listening? I am in no way qualified for this position. I bet she didn’t even read the resume I left with her.

        Dear Universe,
        Help.

  189. Trix*

    I got a job!!!!

    I work for a 70K person company, in a division where careers go to die. This is in a totally separate division, and I’ll finally get to use all the skills I’ve been building the past few years. Plus, it comes with a 23% raise!

    I was really excited about this position right away, but I thought the experience requirements might be a little too much of a stretch, but I know the recruiter and she encouraged me to apply anyway. I applied last Friday, had an interview scheduled by the end of the day, interviewed on Wednesday, and got the call with the verbal offer today. I sign paperwork on Monday, and start two weeks from then. That is literally unheard of in company, hiring usually takes forrreeevvvvvvvvveeerrrrr.

    I wish I could start sooner! I’m so nervous, and so excited, it’s in the fancier corporate building a block from where I currently am (although I will lose my sweet view of the Sound, but that’s a price I will happily pay), and I’ve been in this division for nearly four years (different roles, but I’ve worked with the same basic group of people the whole time), so this basically feels like starting at a different company.

    I have a fair amount of stuff at my desk (nothing crazy, but two drawers full, plus some stuff on my desk). Obviously I’m not going to show up on my first day with a box full like I’m moving in, but what can I bring my first day? Notebook and pens, of course. Anything else, or should I only bring what will fit in my purse?

    1. CAA*

      Congrats on the new job! For the first day, I just bring a notebook, pen and coffee mug. For other personal belongings, wait and see what your new workspace is like and what other people have in their space. You don’t need to bring any generic office supplies from your current desk.. I’m assuming that’s mostly what the two drawers are full of. The new building should have all that stuff.

      If this is the same company (sounds like it is), and you have anything that was purchased especially for you that relates to a physical condition or disability, such as an ergonomic mouse, anti-glare screen, wrist rest, etc, ask your current manager if you can bring those items so the new building doesn’t have to repurchase them for you.

      1. Trix*

        It is the same company, and yes you’re right about the random office supplies taking up a fair amount of my drawer space. Plus just … stuff. I’m definitely realizing that I’ve become a bit of a pack rat here, it won’t hurt to start fresh somewhere else. And thanks for the congratulations!

    2. MommaTRex*

      Notebook and pens? Don’t they provide those?

      Otherwise, I would only bring what could fit in my purse on the first day. Then you can trickle in with a few more items as the week progresses.

      1. Trix*

        I’m certain that they have a notebook and pens that they can provide, but I’d feel a little awkward assuming that and asking for something right away. Plus I’m rather picky about my notebook and pens, so even if they hand something to me the second I walk in, I’ll likely still use my own.

        Good idea about trickling in a few things as the week goes by.

  190. Recruiters Confuse Me*

    Help please – anyone know anything about dealing with recruiters? I have never dealt with one before and I am not sure of proper protocol.

    So the other day I got contacted by a recruiter saying hey do you know anyone who would be interested in x position.
    Only gave me the job title, wasn’t really clear what it was so I searched on the recruiter’s site and found it.
    And yes, I do – ME. Like the job is so perfect for me and I want it.
    So I responded saying yes actually I would be, and haven’t heard anything back (admittedly it’s only been a day). Meanwhile, since I searched it, I have the actual posting and the email to apply on my own.

    But is it rude to apply on my own vs. via the recruiter? Do they get commissions or something and am I burning a potential bridge if I do? Or is there a ‘give him x days and then you’re safe’?
    (I don’t know if the ‘do you know anyone who would be interested’ thing is a polite smokescreen to find applicants or not and whether that impacts …)

    1. CAA*

      OK, the “do you know anyone…” thing is just a way of starting a conversation with you. Many recruiters do this. It’s actually pretty annoying if you’re not looking or if the job is not that relevant.

      When you say you searched, do you mean you found the hiring company’s website and could apply directly to them? Or you found the external recruiter’s website and could apply there? If you found it on the recruiter’s website definitely apply through whatever process they’ve defined. Your app will get back to the guy who reached out to you.

      If you found it on the hiring company’s website, I’d say to apply if you hadn’t already responded to the recruiter. Since you did respond, you should give him at least 4 or 5 business days to get back to you before applying directly. This is tricky because external recruiters do make money by having the candidates they submit hired. Also, if he does submit your resume, then he “owns” your candidacy and if you apply directly in addition, you’re likely to have both applications thrown out due to the conflict. If you end up applying to the hiring company and then the recruiter gets back to you, then do not send him your resume. You must be up front with him and tell him that you’ve already applied so you aren’t wasting his time or jeopardizing your candidacy.

      1. Recruiters Confuse Me*

        Thank you. The ‘do you know’ thing was one of those moments of ‘ok I think that’s just a sneaky way of asking ‘and is it you’ but seriously, 99% of the time recruiters contact me for the job I used to do (which is popular but not what I want to do going forward) so I usually am saying ‘go away’ vs. ‘wait what?’ :)

        It is the latter, and I wouldn’t have found it without him (it’s not on ANY of the job boards externally so I guess they just use recruiters vs. job boards but post it on their site as a standard thing) so I’ll give him the 4 or 5 days now that I’ve confirmed he does get something from it. It’s not like they’ll close the job in less than a week so I shouldn’t be paranoid that if I don’t go instantly I’ve no chance.

        Thank you again for helping (& helping reassure me). It’s been a long time since I’ve been in the job market and I’m so rusty.

  191. Mimmy*

    *Conflicting visions about an employee’s role*

    How do you respond when you find out that the director and your direct supervisor have conflicting visions of your position? It seems the the director of the center I work at has a more ambitious vision about my role than what my direct supervisor envisions.

    Director told me in the interview that the position would be as a “floater”, helping in the different instructional areas. That is what sold me on the job because I thought it’d give me the experience I was looking for to use down the road. I think this is how he presented the position to HR (which is in a different location). However, so far I’ve only been working in one particular area, plus some recurring non-contact duties. There is also a 2-week program for high school students this summer that I’ll be involved with.

    I will concede that Supervisor’s vision is more realistic. I’m just not sure I would’ve accepted the job had I known this would be the scenario because it doesn’t quite fit with what I’d hoped to focus on in the long term. Also, the instructor I work with said that they had a second person lined up for the position who was scared away by the conflicting descriptions of the job (though it could be a rumor – Supervisor hinted today that rumors are common and to talk to her if I get confused about something).

    Thoughts??

    2. fposte*

      First, unless you’re that second person, don’t worry about what that second person did or didn’t do.

      I can’t tell if you explicitly said to your supervisor “Hey, the job was presented to me as being a floater, and I’d really like to be an aide in Jane’s or Lucinda’s classroom sometime too–can we make that happen?” If you haven’t, that’s the thing to do. If you do, and she says “No can do, we need you with Caitlin every time,” then you know. And then you have to decide whether it’s worth sticking with anyway or whether it would make sense to walk.

      However, IIRC it’s a temporary job, and you are trying to build up your job history. I therefore would recommend against leaving unless you’re doing so to take a decently hefty job elsewhere; I think at this point there’s significant value in the existence of a recent job on your resume and sticking it out until the temporary term expires even if it isn’t quite what you’d planned.

  192. An Ominous*

    Question about resigning:
    When one is at a non-profit, is it standard to cc a letter of resignation to the board? Or does it tend to vary by organization?

    2. Not Karen*

      When you have the resignation talk with your manager, they will tell you who to address/send the letter of resignation to for documentation.

      1. An Ominous*

        I’ve been wavering in concern about documentation and whether I should open a door for conversation about staff turnover due to my manager (in an 8-person org, I’m #11 to leave in just over three years) hence the question. With the clarification here, and another meditation on the depths of the meaning “Not my circus, not my monkeys,” this has been helpful.

  193. i like clothes*

    Dress code inquiry: Does anyone else get comments from cowrokers when wearing colored pants? I like to wear fun colored pants at my business-casual office, think dark pink or mustard yellow. Everytime I wear these colors, people think I am not wearing pants. Today I am wearing my mustard -colored pants, but I’ve gotten so many adverse reactions that I am ready to throw these pants in the trash when I get home! Is my office weird?

    1. Daria Grace*

      It’s not a situation I’ve encountered as people in my office tend to go for dark coloured jeans/pants. I think avoiding items of clothing that make people do a double take about whether you’re actually wearing clothes or are otherwise distracting are probably best avoided at work

    2. MommaTRex*

      I think that is weird. Today I am wearing some purple jeans. The only comments I have received are compliments from people admiring the color.

      If they don’t think you are wearing pants, what do they think you are wearing?

      1. i like clothes*

        MommaTRex, they think that I’m not wearing any bottoms at all- like this mustard yellow color is my skin or something. I had to adjust the waistband earlier (these pants are kind of baggy so I had to hitch them up) and one co-worker looked away real quick, thinking she was going to see my underwear! We had a good laugh about it, but this is distracting, Daria, you’re right, I won’twear them to work anymore.

    3. Jennifer Walters*

      I have a pair of bright blue pants and a pair of bright green pants that I like to wear in my business casual office. However, I’m an attorney (and a young one at that, think 25 looking like 19) and I realized that when rando clients show up, I needed to look like an attorney, so I moved my bright colored pants to Fridays only. Maybe relegate the mustard to Friday?

      (Though, it could be the mustard color. I went to a nail salon and always choose a weird color for my toes, so I picked out a bright yellow. Everyone, from my pedicurist to the woman next tome, commented on the mustard color I chose. It was insane!)

      But, above all, if you want to wear colored pants and the higher-ups don’t say anything, keep doing you.

    4. Kerr*

      Not “seeing” mustard yellow as mustard yellow is weird! Maybe there’s an undertone that plays off the undertone in your skin? I’ve definitely seen people wearing pants that made me do a double-take, because they were THIS close enough to skin-color that it looked like they weren’t wearing pants. Even if the color itself didn’t match, something about the value & undertone did.

        1. Hrovitnir*

          I have a friend who wears mustard yellow pants a lot and out of the corner of my eye it often looks like he’s not wearing anything, which can be amusing. I don’t think it’s actually that unusual or that it really looks like you’re wearing no pants though. O_o

  194. Cruciatus*

    I’m freeeeeeeeee! Well, ish. My (former–as of today!!!) supervisor seems to think I’ll be readily accessible for any questions since I’m only going a short walk away. While I will help, I’m gonna need it to be occasionally so I can continue to be freeeeeee! No fanfare as I left today, or at any point. I got a card from my supervisor wishing me luck but that was it. I wasn’t expecting a parade but maybe having a cupcake with the other 4 people in the office. But on the other hand, I now have what I want and have wanted for a while now. I am interested to see what my new schedule is like in my new position. Now to catch up on 1300 comments. Yikes!

  195. other non*

    Any thoughts on thank you notes when you meet with a whole series of people as part of an interview? Over the course of a full day interview, I met with about a dozen people on the team that I’m applying for and spent time talking with each. I was considering sending an oth comma would that be overkill? Is there a way to avoid being too repetitive in each note if I do? Or just send a note to my point person?

    1. vpc*

      Just the point person, and include a line about “please express my thanks to the other members of the team who took the time to meet with me” or something similar.

  196. Getting Ready to Graduate*

    Which is better for interviews- wearing a full suit with the jacket too big and risking sweating through your shirt (we’re in Vegas) or wearing a nice dress shirt, tie, and dress pants? I know there’s been lots of discussion about the correct wardrobe for interviews for women, but is it a suit or nothing (figuratively) for men?
    Also, can any engineers shed any light on the benefits of taking the FE exam versus not? Are employers ever willing to hire someone who has the test planned, but haven’t taken it yet, or willing to pay for the employee to take the exam?

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I would carry a jacket over my arm and put it on at the last second. Once you get inside in the air conditioning it should be OK to put on a jacket. If you’re like me and you sweat for a while after exertion or heat, just make sure to get there early so you can cool down in the lobby.

      Or, if it’s not the kind of business that would be in an office building or for some other reason wouldn’t have a lobby, scout out Starbucks/Dunkin Donuts/etc. on the same block to cool down in first, maybe with an iced coffee or tea. (Been there, done that in NYC in the dog days of summer, when I had to take the train and walk quite a few blocks because I didn’t have a car and didn’t want to spend the money on a cab.)

  197. Newsie*

    A great big shoutout to Alison. She reviewed my resume in one of the open seasons, I read her advice about cover letters and used it to personalize my letter, and I got an interview. I asked her question at all 4 of my interviews and referred to their answers in the thank you emails. And because of all of that (plus my writing test, which I aced) I got a new job just as the old workplace looks to be imploding. Plus I negotiated – sort of – with Alison’s help. (I brought up how I got a little extra because my shift was partially late. They brought the offer up 5k. Before, I would have been too scared to even bring that up.)

    Now I just need to decide if I want it or not! Alison – you took my meh job-hunting skills to so much better and let me sell the skills I have. Thank you!

  198. Hey Nonnie*

    Just out of curiosity:

    Is there any actual recourse if an employer reneges on some aspect of their offer?

    Over the course of my career I’ve had at LEAST four different employers bait and switch me on the job description, which unsurprisingly led to my being laid off when it turned out I was bad at things I had no experience or training (or aptitude, or interest) in, never claimed I could do, and certainly would have said “no, that’s not in my wheelhouse” if they’d asked. I also had one who lured me into accepting an insultingly low salary because they also offered to pay for professional training, which was something I DID want and I was figuring would have a reasonably high dollar value. Naturally all of my suggestions for actual professional training programs, at real schools, were dismissed, and I got a “trainer consultant” who knew less about javascript than I did. (Every single question I asked was met with a lot of umming while he flipped through his homemade “textbook” for the answer, which he may or may not have eventually found. I can read a book by myself, I was looking for actual TRAINING.)

    My guess is the answer is probably no, the employer/worker power imbalance being what it is; and you just better hope they’re not lying in their offer. But I’d love to know if there is an avenue that I don’t know about, for the next time this happens.

    1. Natalie*

      Not in the US, assuming you don’t have an employment contract (which you likely don’t). In some states, if the job is different enough you might be able to get unemployment even if you quit, and almost certainly if you are let go, even if it’s described as a firing.

    2. Jade*

      Ugh I’ve been in your shoes too many times now with employers who say one thing during the interview, and then the job ends up being a different ballgame. The best advice I can give is to ask VERY thorough questions about these things during your interviews. Stuff like “Do you anticipate the job description changing any time soon?” “If the company decides to add duties later on that require me to obtain new skills, will the company provide and pay for training for me?”

      Also, are you working with larger companies, or much smaller ones? I’ve found a lot more inconsistencies when dealing with small businesses. In my opinion, the lack of bureaucratic structure lends to a lot of make-it-up-as-we-go policies and decisions.

      1. Hey Nonnie*

        They’ve run the entire gamut: small 6-person companies, companies that employ 200 people, large corporations that employ thousands.

  199. emma2*

    I just started a new job and survived my first two weeks! I could use some tips/advice on how to make friends at work in a way that is appropriate (not that I would do something creepy) Most of the people are in my age range and are nice and friendly.

    1. Daria Grace*

      Start with simple things like asking how their weekend was on Monday mornings or offering to get the people sitting near you a coffee while you get yours

    2. Dienna Howard*

      Connect with them during downtime in the office (water/coffee breaks, lunch) and talk to them. You said they’re in your age range and friendly, so I’m sure you’ll be able to connect with them in no time.

    3. emma2*

      Follow up question: What is the line between being casual/friendly with your work peers without being unprofessional? I feel like I know the obvious answers to this, but I am really chatty and can see myself getting lured into thinking they are like my everyday peers – not to the point of talking about my sex life or something but are there major no-no’s to avoid?

      1. Anna Held*

        Sex, politics, religion. Medical problems. Any drama — roommate drama, best friend drama, family drama. They shouldn’t feel like they know your SO before they’ve met them. You’ve probably got this stuff, but it’s always a good idea to listen more than you talk when you’re learning the norms and personalities of a new group.

        1. vpc*

          And office drama! Don’t risk becoming perceived as the office gossip. But it’s fine to ask about office history – “you’ve been here for five years, how has the office changed in that time?” kind of stuff.

  200. Theresa*

    I think I need some encouragement. I’m currently about to make a career shift, in the fall I’ll be working part-time in my current role and going to grad school. I really like my current position, but to advance any further with these skills I need to get my masters.

    Now, here’s where I am getting anxious: When I graduated with my undergraduate degree almost 7 years ago now (yikes) I had such a rough time finding a job, I did retail and volunteered for 3/4 years until I found my current position. I didn’t really know what I wanted in undergrad and just took courses that interested me. I also didn’t work during university, which was a dumb choice. Anyway, I still feel SO BAD about those “wasted years” right after undergrad. I felt like a complete moron and like I had failed, because I saw people who did the smart thing by studying something practical like accounting… get actual jobs and end up in careers. And even to this DAY these people are further ahead in their careers.

    I am so afraid that when I finish with this program, I will never find a job or my job search will be painful (like it was all those years ago). I know that I’ll be in a completely different position than I was back then – I’ll have relevant work experience, I have actual career goals this time, etc., but nonetheless I am so afraid that I will end up exactly where I was when I finished my undergrad. I know this isn’t realistic, but how do I get over these fears?!

    1. Totes Anon*

      I don’t know if there’s a surefire way to get over those fears, but it might help to think about the ways this situation will be different. You mentioned that you plan to continue working part-time while going to grad school, so you won’t have a multi-year gap and a need to “start fresh” once you’re done with school – you’ll have a solid work history in your field *as well as* your shiny new qualification, and you’ll still have a part-time job that you can leverage into a full-time job (either with the same company increasing your hours, or through recommendations/networking to find a new job).

  201. Scarlett P.*

    To all the managers out there- I just received a very hearfelt “thank you for your excellent work this week, Scarlett P.” from my boss and it made me SO INCREDIBLY HAPPY!!!

    It was a tough week with multiple project deadlines and moving balls, with substantial overtime. That thank you really made me feel validated and appreciated! It was the perfect way to end a Friday.

    If you don’t have a budget to show your appreciation in gifts, a meaningful thank you is just as good (if not better!!).

  202. Aninnymouse*

    Is this place just messing with me? There a jewelry store that tried to go to an interview with them almost exactly 2 months ago. I could not work out the interview time with them twice. I don’t hear anything back. I figure they have moved on. On April 8 they I get 2 emails from this place within 5 days of each other asking if I’m still interested in the position. I’m told to take an online test test (those what would you do if you see an employee stealing questions one). Apparently I filled it out wrong because a week later after taking it I get an email berating me for answering one of the questions wrong. The hiring manger takes a long time to get back to me.

    1. Panda Bandit*

      It sounds like they’re poorly run and not a great place to work. If they’re concerned about any of your answers being wrong they should be explaining the correct answer in a professional manner.

  203. Jade*

    No question here, just wanted to commiserate with the community. I had a job interview today after looking since October. It was the most interesting job I’ve found so far, with a good company and decent pay and benefits, but the interview kinda turned me off to it. I got a bad vibe from the manager about work-life balance there, attitude toward employees, and the schedule isn’t great. I’m proud of myself though for asking very thorough questions to learn this stuff now rather than being surprised by it later. That’s something I’ve messed up on too many times in the past.

    Still a bummer though.

    1. Gilmore67*

      Well, you asked the right questions and now will know even better what and how to ask that stuff on other interviews.

      Good for you for making sure you didn’t end up in a job/company you would not be comfortable in.

    2. Totes Anon*

      Better to find out now than on the job, right? You did yourself a huge service asking all the questions in advance – it may seem like the interview was a waste of time now, but you didn’t know any of that going into it.

      Hopefully you’ll get another interview soon for a company that doesn’t have those flags!

  204. Anon for this Q*

    Another pregnant while job searching question.

    Two postings ago I was in very early pregnancy; I was offered for the position and mentioned that I was pregnant then, but ultimately declined the offer. My most recent interview I still was not showing and was planning to do the same (they’re being slow to hire so I have neither even rejected nor asked to go to second round, but my contacts have told me it hasn’t been filled yet).

    I have an interview next week and I’ll be 26 weeks pregnant and this is my 2nd pregnancy, so I’m obviously pregnant. There is no reason to treat this process any differently from the others, correct? Like I said, I’m comfortable not addressing it, just want to make sure I’m not missing anything.

    2. Totes Anon*

      I don’t see any reason to treat it differently just because you’re obviously pregnant – I’d just make sure that you bring it up at the offer stage, like you did before, if your pregnancy hasn’t been acknowledged in talks before then. You’ll also want to negotiate some kind of maternity leave at the offer stage, since you won’t qualify for FMLA, and check the waiting period for any benefits, but that’s the same stuff you presumably would have done if you’d decided to accept the first offer.

  205. Rio C*

    I’m probably really late but how long should you hold out on an internal opportunity possibly coming into fruition?

    I’ve been in talks with my company for about 6 months about moving from teapot technician to teapot development which has involves some interviews and growth opportunities via a few projects they’ve given me to handle. My manager has also trusted me with higher-level work compared to our other teapot technicians where I’m essentially the teapot database administrator of our office’s main group of projects; not exactly what I want to be doing but it’s allowing me to develop my skillset and it’s work that’s keep me happy.

    I receive nothing but praise for the high quality/efficiency of my work and the managers within my office say they constantly vouch for me and that the process to get me in the career path I want is moving along, that the CEO is impressed with my work, that they’re figuring out what sort of training I need, that the VP wants me out in the main HQ right away, that the details are being worked on, etc. so I was a bit taken aback when my title at a recent salary review only got bumped up from Tech 2 to Tech 3 and not even two days later, I got put back to doing lower level tech stuff because there wasn’t any database work available for me to do at the moment. The past few months have seen me doing tech stuff only once a month to help a struggling project keep up and I’m projecting this time, it’ll last at least 2 weeks.

    Perhaps irrationally, I took all of the info I was given to mean that the move to teapot development was guaranteed as it’s only ever been presented to me in this manner. Someone noticed that I’ve seemed gloomy over the past few days and brought this attention to my manager. He got me in a meeting with another high-level manager (first time I’ve ever talked with him) and the gist of the conversation was that promotions can be very much a matter of being in the right place at the right time. He promised to get me an answer by next week about if there was any sort of definite timeline for my progression and that a plan for me would be more laid out then.

    It’s a great work environment overall, but this entire process has really started to cloud my judgment and is making me really consider mentally moving on from my current job in order to focus on opportunities elsewhere. I’m probably taking this really personally/looking very entitled but even though everyone I’ve talked with seemed genuine about helping me advance, I just feel like I’ve been strung along with false promises, especially after hearing the “right place at the right time” comment which while realistic, just leaves me feeling sour because I’ve heard only the opposite.

    My plan at the moment is to wait on the discussion next week but if the conversation ends up being anything less than “You’ll be a teapot developer in X months once we finalize everything” or “After you do Y and Z, we’ll get the ball rolling”, I’m going to seriously consider if I want to stay or not.

      1. Book Lover*

        Oh, sorry, not six months at the job, but six months in talks. Why don’t you start seeing what is out there, at least? No harm if you get your promotion soon, but if you find a great job outside the company, why not?

        1. Rio C*

          Right. I’ve already started looking but don’t really intend to apply until at least after next week’s response. I know hiring processes can take awhile but I’ve been blindsided by a few interview requests only days after applying when I’d hoped to let them sit a while and don’t really need the added stress.

          Really, there’s too many elements at play here but it’s just really hard to deal with what I consider an almost 180 degree turn around of what I’ve been told for half a year vs. what’s materialized in just one week.

    2. LQ*

      I think that at least the getting asked to help with a struggling project to help it keep up/get caught up is really common when waiting, especially when there isn’t any of the work you’ve been doing (dba stuff). I’m pretty sure if my boss felt like he could be of any actual use he’d be in here helping me today.

      Is your place a company that moves fast in general? I work for government and nearly all of my promotions have taken way longer than 6 months to come to fruition.

      Would you be happy being in this same job in 6 more months? If not then maybe it is time to start looking. You don’t have to take an offer, you might still get the promotion. But often taking action that you can control is a good way to feel less frustrated with something you don’t have control over. You don’t have control over if they give you a promotion. You do have control over you looking for a new job.

      1. Rio C*

        I’ve worked at the company for just over 2 years and it’s my first job out of college. For what it’s worth, I’ve at least seen what slow growth and ‘growing too fast we’re literally setting up work stations in the supply closet’ growth look like. Current company outlook is looking more like a balanced, gradual growth. Surprisingly, there isn’t a lot of turnover despite the below-market pay but those that do leave typically end up in a different field because Teapot Field is rather notorious for being a career dead-end if you get too content with being a teapot technician.

        At this point, I can maybe work another 2-3 months with my current duties before deciding I’m over with being told every 2 weeks that “it could happen next week, also “, but I’m hoping that a proposed plan next week will at least give me a more solid timeline of what to expect in the coming months. In hindsight, I’m still quite young (plenty of time to growth and develop) and probably being bitter for no real reason as they are taking action, but it’s frustrating that I needed to call out their cavalier handling of my growth to get any concrete action taken beyond a bandaid title.

        1. Rio C*

          “it could happen next week, also (insert empty praise here).”

          Didn’t show up the first time.

        2. LQ*

          They are just people and they forget, they don’t know, they overlook things. Chances are extremely good you’ll always have to be the biggest advocate for your own career and your own growth. Never expect anyone else to champion it. (I say as I fully hope for my bosses to do it! It’s harder to do than say that’s for sure.)

          But really if you’re unhappy with it (and you sound like you really are) you might be a lot better off looking for a new job now rather than stewing for a few more months. If they get it for you on Monday and you’re still unhappy about their handling of it you’re going to have to let that go to be happy in your new position.

  206. PricklyPear*

    Today my boss referred to liberal-minded people as “snowflakes who are scared of everything.” He said in conversation when telling a “pro-Trump joke” to two known liberals in the office. He also asked if I thought a tall, confidant older woman could possibly have been transgender (used an offensive term) and kept harping on it.

    It was gross. I wish I would have spoke out about it and i’m regretting it.

  207. Dienna Howard*

    I found this 60 Minutes clip on YouTube from 2012 about the long term unemployed and this program called Platform to Employment. The participants were in their 40s and 50s and their unemployment benefits were exhausted. In the video it said that 53 of 100 participants found jobs after they completed the program. From looking at the site, the program’s in Connecticut, Rhode Island, a few counties in Pennsylvania, and Las Vegas. The program provided people with skills and encouragement and had such a positive impact on those who enrolled in it. Something like this is needed universally and I’m surprised it isn’t.

  208. Cute Li'l UFO*

    I’m “meeting with” the Accounts team of a design agency Monday!

    I already interviewed with the Creative Directors last Monday after having a great phone screen at the end of March with operations.

    I’m really excited but also have no clear idea what meeting with the accounts team. I’ll be reading up on the two people in the meantime and getting my materials back together.

    I hope something comes through. I’ve been interviewing and applying since January. It is such a long process.

  209. Zane*

    After a lifetime of being an awkward and terrible interviewer I’ve had two great interviews in the past week, and I’m willing to bet everyone here had a part in that (since I’ve been devouring articles like crazy since a friend sent me the link a couple weeks ago). Which is great! I have a good feeling, but I’m trying not to get my hopes up.

    I am a little… concerned about leaving my current job. I don’t like change, and I’m comfortable at my current position, but it’s draining, the pay is bad, and I’ve disliked the work pretty much the entire time I’ve been there. I’ve been wanting to leave for ages, and I was job hunting over the summer but I put it on hold because a wave of resignations hit and I had the bright idea to attempt classes towards a career change (which ended up being short-lived). I would feel guilty about leaving my manager, since the rest of my team has been with the firm less than a year combined, but I really feel like it’s time to move on. Gah.

    Anyway. Trying to focus on actually landing a new job first, before panicking about everything that comes after that. Especially since the finding-a-new-job process takes forever.

    1. Schmitt*

      I sympathize. I also hate change and stayed in a not-so-great job for nine years. I switched jobs last year and I’m so happy I did. I always thought “What if it’s worse?” but never managed to jump to “What if it’s better?”

      You’re job hunting from a position of strength while still employed – which is so nice as you can really evaluate the positions you apply for and look for a good cultural fit. I asked some behavioral questions (like “How would you handle an underperformer?”) where the answers solidified my feel that the company was sane (“Check if they had something going on in their personal life first, then see if the job itself was a bad fit” followed by an actual example of someone who they’d offered a department change to). I was also pretty open about why I was asking them but your mileage may vary there.

    2. Wrench Turner*

      “Draining, pay is bad, disliked work pretty much the entire time” does not sound at all comfortable to me. Get out of there! Take your skills someplace you’ll be compensated and appreciated for them. Do not feel guilty for a second about leaving. If your manager has high turn over, that’s their job to fix, not yours. I was in that exact trap last year and only stayed just long enough to leverage that role into where I am now. Unless you’ve got that goal in mind, get out. You don’t owe anyone anything.

      Yes, change is scary. Big job changes even more so. Been there. YOU’RE in charge of that change though! Sometimes it’s really, really worth it. Being able to interview while still employed is great because you’ve got nothing to lose. Go get ’em! :D

  210. SadConsultant*

    I had a job interview yesterday during which I was asked very specific questions (“you are going to a client who has this and that problem, his turnover is this and that, he produces this and that, … what do you do?”). I answered it quite well I would think, although obviously only generally – without knowing the details and the client’s wishes no clear solution is possible – I said something like “What I would do first is … and then it’s important to … Depending on the client’s preferences I would suggest … or …, although of course more data is needed”. I didn’t receive the case studies in writing and didn’t have any time to prepare, they just asked it as a question and requested an immediate answer – these were examples of cases they faced in their work, so they knew them well. After my replies they told me to be more specific.

    I deal with such cases in my current job and get excellent reviews! But of course you always have time to get to know the company and prepare for the conversation with the client, clients’ problems are just too specific to offer solutions straight away. I want to find a new job to deal with more complex ones. However, yesterday I was told the guy didn’t think he could send me to clients directly and that I lacked experience. I am sent to clients directly at my current position and I’m doing just great!

    Also they knew what my experience was before inviting me. And as I say, I am doing great at my current position at a much larger company, which does much larger projects than the one I interviewed with.

    I feel very strange now. I traveled across the country to the interview and I’m so tired. Add to that the fact that the company doesn’t seem to employ women – from what I learnt just about 2% of all consultants are women and all of them at the most junior positions. And no, it’s definitely not because no women with the required education and experience are available. I’m both angry and tired.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      How annoying that they asked you to be specific – I’d have thought the whole point was to identify the potential questions and steps in the process of working out what to do.

    2. Wrench Turner*

      Yeah, that’s a crap place to put you. Without seeing the specifics of their files, how would you be able to give specific answers for them? Maybe they have some internal policy that has specifics built in which could be applied to anyone – but how would you know that without being there already?
      Sorry you had a bad experience but maybe you dodged a bad place to be.

  211. Ramona Flowers*

    Not sure anyone is still reading but I’ve noticed a few times that my line manager is a bit insecure about admitting when she doesn’t know things. There have been times when things would have worked out better if she’d run them by me or my colleague (she’s more senior, but we have more specialist subject matter knowledge and could help her more if she asked). She’s temp cover so it’s not like this is going to continue being an issue, but it’s a bit frustrating at the moment.

    In contrast, grandboss has no problem asking about things he’s unsure of. Like yesterday when he asked me to talk him through something I’d have expected him to know more about than me. And of course I didn’t laugh and say: wtf, don’t you know? I said: sure – now you’ll probably know most of this but let’s walk through it in order…

    And the thing is: guess who I respect more and think is more competent? The person who’s afraid to admit they don’t know, or the person who identifies the gaps in their knowledge and goes to the people who can help – who feel valued, not contemptuous, when asked to do so? SMH.

  212. Heaven*

    I’m probably a bit late to this week’s open thread but I had to share. A couple of weeks ago I posted seeking reassurance for applying to an internal role just as we’d hired someone new to bring my current team back up to capacity.

    I just spoke to my manager about applying for the head office role and, as everyone predicted, she was fine about it. She told me to definitely go for it if it’s something I want to pursue and that she’d never hold anyone back from developing themselves.

    Honestly, she was so happy for me that I feel kind of embarrassed for getting so worked up, but at least it’s all worked out well. Plus, she said the kind of position I am going for usually goes to internal candidates, so fingers crossed!

    Now I need to dust off my CV when I get home from work.

  213. Wrench Turner*

    Annoyed at the boss. Six months ago I took a pay cut to transfer to this service division, and was promised a raise not only to where I was paid, but beyond, with each certification I acquired in my field. Fast forward to last week when I passed the company training at HQ far out of state (where his boss gave me a raise that put me back where I was) but I also earned two certifications and am working on a third. When I came home and asked the boss about a raise for these, he said no, and we have to do it incrementally but promised me (again) a raise later. As if I couldn’t get too many raises too fast, even though it’s what he promised at hiring.

    Anyone run in to something like this? Promised a raise for a goal, achieved the goal, and then was put off? He’s also now hesitant about me getting a third certification, which he was all about when I was just a trainee – which would of course mean a 3rd pay increase.

    1. SadConsultant*

      Just search for a new job, now you know you can’t count on your boss. Your description sounds as something that would happen in my company and at my company nobody takes the promises seriously. Sorry that it happened to you though.

      1. Wrench Turner*

        I’m pretty disappointed. He’s buddy-buddy with everyone and very lax but I was hoping he’d come through with this. I’ve been busting my tail for months at this lower rate. The next round of testing that comes through, I’m going to insist on getting the 3rd certification even if I have to pay the $200 myself for it. I’ll then be certified in all 3 major system types and a quick hire for anyone else who might appreciate me more.

    2. Chaordic One*

      Been there. Done that.

      In my case, supposedly my bosses advocated for me, but were shot down by HR which claimed other people in other departments were doing similar work to mine at the same rate of pay. (If true, H.R. didn’t know what they were talking about, because no one else had the volume of work I did.) Shortly after this, my immediate supervisor was demoted and her immediate supervisor transferred to a different department. It didn’t work out well for me.

      I hope you’ll get that 3rd certification and make yourself more attractive to both your current bosses and to more enlightened employers. Even if you have to pay for the certification yourself, it will be a good investment in yourself and your future.

    3. Blue birds fly*

      I had something similar happen to me, and my company has never fixed it. I’m 2010, I saw a merit raise reflected in the next fiscal year budget. I deserved it because of taking on and excelling at more than one large project, while keeping up with my regular work. Suddenly, it was no longer in the proposed budget. It turns out that our department loses merit raises if too many people quit. Even though they weren’t in my division, I lost my raise. They strung me along for the next year, promising that i would get the raise. That was in 2010, and they have never fixed it. So glad I have reached my 30 years and can leave in a couple of months! Good luck to you, I hope yours turns out better!

    4. Totes Anon*

      That is a really sucky, bait-and-switch thing they have going on there.

      Was your boss the one who promised the multiple raises when you got your certifications? If so, can you try reminding him that he promised you this when you took the transfer? If his boss was the one involved in the transfer promises, could you try talking to *him* instead, since he’s already given you one raise?

      If you’ve already tried these and no dice, or you don’t think boss/grandboss would be amenable to being reminded of their promises, I think you need to dust off your resume and take your shiny new certifications to a company that will pay you what you’re worth.

  214. neverjaunty*

    Yep. This is not uncommon. You now know that you have a boss who will not give you a pay raise, even one tied to a concrete milestone, and you will have to go over his head. He is unlikely to change.

  215. Tomato Frog*

    I have a video interview this week. What do I do about sound? When I’m talking to family on Skype, I wear earbuds to prevent weird feedback. If there wasn’t video I’d just wear my full (not at all subtle) headset. What should I do for a video interview? I feel like when I talk to someone wearing headphones, it gives a vibe that they’re not really listening to you, even if you know better. I looked at AAM video interview tips but I’m not seeing anything really decisive about how to deal with this aspect.

    Aside: why on earth would they “prefer” a video interview? This is the first interview — not a stand-in in place of the in-person. Monsters.

    1. he he hello*

      I’ve been on the hiring end of a bunch of video interviews and headsets have never been a big deal. The most important thing is that the panel can actually hear you clearly and that you can hear what’s being said. Earbuds are also fine.

  216. he he hello*

    On the off chance that people are still reading and responding to this open thread:
    Is being a union shop steward at my work location something that I should put on a resume? I get the feeling that it makes most managers uncomfortable. My manager was pretty excited that we were getting more involved with the union and making things happen, but other managers I’ve spoken with tend to speak pretty poorly of unions and union members. In my field, people in my position are almost always unionized.

    1. Wrench Turner*

      Yes. I would put that on there. It’s a lot of responsibility. Poor opinions of unions tend to be at the upper management level, not with us wrench turners.

    2. Chaordic One*

      You should probably do some research into the places where you are applying. In union shops it should be an asset and you should certainly list it when applying for jobs there. OTOH, if you are applying to a non-union shop, then leave it off.

  217. Totes Anon*

    So a few weeks ago my boss and I had an informal conversation about my performance (we have a formal performance review process, but we haven’t completed my review yet) and she told me that I would be getting a higher than normal raise this year, in recognition of me 1) kicking ass at the promotion I got last year, and 2) taking on a very heavy project this year that is outside of my usual wheelhouse. No numbers were named, but she was very clear.

    Fast forward to the present day and the annual raises are being issued; mine is 3%. Which is the ‘basic’ rate, not at all higher than normal like I was told, and I am very disappointed. My boss is currently on vacation so I couldn’t have a conversation with her right away when I found out, which means I’ve spent the last week stewing about this – I very much want to say something about it, because I am excellent at my job and at making my boss look good, and if I continue to be shortchanged on promises I will start resenting it. But I’m at the point where I’m second-guessing every decision I come to about what to say, because I’m not sure how to approach it.

    Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I remind her of our previous conversation and that 3% is not a high increase? Should I treat it more like a conversation asking for a raise, reminding her of the awesome stuff I have done in the past year? Both? Suck it up and live with 3%?

    1. Wrench Turner*

      When Boss gets back, bring it up as an oversight. You were promised ‘more’ -whatever that means- and what you got was the pretty basic rate. Maybe she just forgot to put down a larger number, but should be able to fix that. If she can’t change payroll for whatever reason, see if you can get an additional day off or some other non-monetary benefit. If that was all just talk, I’d dust off your resume and start seeing who will appreciate your hard work. 3% is just barely over inflation; not really a raise at all.

      1. Totes Anon*

        Thanks, I think “of course it’s an oversight” is probably the best tack to try.

    2. LQ*

      Any chance that your company would require the formal performance review to be done before giving an above normal raise? I agree with Wrench that bringing it up as an oversight or something you want to let your boss know about so that she can resolve it is the way to go. But I wanted to mention that formal review piece since I know that’s required here.

      1. Totes Anon*

        Sadly, the performance review is not tied to the annual raise – I would totally understand it if that was the case! The review deadline is a few months later than annual raise time (which makes little sense to me, but I’m not the one in charge of this). The review is more of a “nice to have” than a requirement, there’s no chasing down managers who don’t complete them and so some departments don’t do a single one.

        I think you and Wrench have the right idea, to address it as if “of course it’s an oversight” and see what happens there.

  218. kracken*

    I’m coming into this way late, but may as well give it a shot.

    I work at a law firm as an entry level legal assistant, and I’m the highest performer on my team. My coworker, who was hired at the same time as me, was a close second. She just quit, and now my boss is afraid I’ll quit too, and that she will have to redistribute a lot more work to some much lower performers.

    I don’t plan on quitting any time soon. I actually like this job and consider this a career path, and I see opportunities at this firm. My only issues right now are that I’m a little bored, and would like to be paid more.

    I have my annual review coming up and what I want to say to my boss is, as long as you give me more interesting stuff to work on and raise my pay accordingly, you don’t have to worry about me leaving for at least a few years. We have already discussed having me take on higher level work, and I’ve already taken on some extra stuff. What we haven’t discussed is a higher wage. My firm is notoriously stingy, but I think the fear of losing her two best employees might influence my boss to give me a bigger raise than she would otherwise, if I navigate this right. Any advice on how to proceed?

    1. LQ*

      Think of the extra higher level work as the reason for the bigger raise. Don’t focus on the fear of losing you as a tool. The tool for you to talk to her (and maybe for her to talk to others) is that you are doing higher level work (and doing it in a very high performance way).

      I’m excited to be taking on more interesting work and would like to talk about a pay increase to go with it.

      (If she is worried about losing you that will lurk in the back of her mind, you don’t need to bring it up explicitly. And you want to make a positive case for you.)

    2. Totes Anon*

      When you say you want more interesting stuff to do, is there anything in particular you have in mind – either tasks/projects, or a particular kind of work? Being able to give your boss concrete examples of things you want to learn/do will be more helpful to your goals than wanting ‘something more’ but leaving it up to your boss to a) remember, and b) figure out what’s interesting to you – I found that being able to give specifics worked well with getting my boss to give me new things to do, and is what led to me being brought into the project that I’m currently working on. If you don’t have any ideas, try to think about it before your review.

  219. Anon for current purposes*

    This is the tail end of Saturday on the East Coast, but here goes:

    I’ve often heard tell that one can be employable in programming/software design/anything today involving coding without having formal training in computer science, by just learning the necessary languages/algorithms/techniques and sticking one’s nose to the grindstone.

    I’m more than a little skeptical of this, since it feels like there has to be a degree for everything nowadays. I do have a quantitative science background (M.Sc.), where I learned a lot of abstract math and got exposed enough to coding to know that I find it incredibly rewarding. The thing is, seeing that there are barriers of entry erected around everything, spelled “RELEVANT DEGREE,” I’m having a hard time convincing myself I could switch fields from a STEM but non-CS track, without taking on another degree.

    Could any tech peeps out there help clarify whether I can, in fact, do coding *and* make decent money without further formal training? If so, what’s the best way to do this? And most importantly, what are the odds?

    1. Totes Anon*

      I’m tech-adjacent, but my partner is in tech and from what zie says, the idea that you can be employable in tech without any formal training has a grain of truth in it but is not as simple as people make it sound. Having A Computer Science Degree is less important for some companies than relevant experience, but you often still need to have some sort of qualification (certification, diploma, etc) that shows you learned the language/skills, as well as having that experience. Other companies might be strict about the degree requirement, and yet others might be willing to give a chance with a decent portfolio (web design portfolio, Stack Overflow projects, volunteering online or in person, whatever’s relevant to your stream of choice).

      My current company hires paid interns from a couple of local colleges’ computer science certificate programs, some of which become permanent employees, so that might be something to look into.

      1. Anon for current purposes*

        Thanks!

        One thing I’ve been meaning to do, once I’m finished with my current (non-CS) Master’s, is to start putting up projects on GitHub and other places of that nature.

        I’m just curious, what sorts of volunteering opportunities are there? I haven’t heard about volunteering in the context of coding.

        Also, by “computer science certificate,” are you referring to a standard CS degree, or to something else?

        1. Totes Anon*

          There are open source projects online that rely on volunteers, both large (Mozilla, Apache Software Foundation, Ubuntu) and smaller (look at GitHub, OpenHatch, Stack, etc). Volunteer opportunities in person might be a bit trickier to find unless your network can help. Since you’re still in grad school, you could also try seeing if there’s any student-led projects going on at your institution that you can get involved in.

          For certifications, I wasn’t meaning degree specifically. You could look at things like:
          -Microsoft’s MCSE certifications (self-taught learning, and you pay to take the exam – there’s multiple modules, so if any were relevant you could take just that certification)
          -programming courses that leave you with a certificate or diploma (through continuing ed (check your current school!) or through specialist institutions)
          -bootcamps (pick your language(s), and look for recommended bootcamps that focus on that – some bootcamps are in-person and you’d have to dedicate multiple weeks on-site, but some have remote options)
          -well-known free online courses (Odin Project, Hack Reactor, etc)

  220. Mel*

    What is the protocol for asking questions after your interview? I had an in-person interview this week, and after digesting the information given to me at the time, I came up with some more questions. They’re mostly logistical things, like questions about schedules and PTO. Should I email the person who interviewed me back to ask them now, or hold off and ask them if they offer me the job? Or should I email HR to ask some of the more policy-related questions?

    1. Totes Anon*

      For logistical questions, I would hold off until either the offer stage or the second interview (whichever happens first). If you have any questions about the role itself, I would email the interviewer if you’ve been in contact with them before through email (if you haven’t been in email contact directly, you could ask HR instead, or ask them to put you in touch with someone who can answer your questions).

  221. yay nepotism*

    It’s barely still Saturday but if anyone’s still around:

    I was interviewing for a job this week. I work in the legal field, as do both of my parents, and it’s a fairly small community. My interviewer, while describing the firm and what he liked about it, brought up his past employment at a large firm. He asked if I was familiar with it, and I said yes, and as he continued to compare what it was like at that firm vs. the small firm I was interviewing for, I said, actually, my dad works there (thinking it would be weird to let this go on and pretend I didn’t have a connection). He started to ask me who my dad was, but remembered exactly after a brief glance at my resume (same unusual last name–enough that he very well may have recognized it on his own).

    I keep going over this in my head and can’t figure out if this hurts my chances, helps my chances, or neither. I didn’t even really want to bring it up, and didn’t suggest at all that he should hire me because I’m the daughter of a guy he used to work with, but I wonder if it might come across that way or be an uncomfortable side note. Or if I’m just being paranoid and self-conscious about not wanting to come across as a name-dropper or ‘that girl whose daddy…’ because possible sexist undertones.

    1. Jade*

      Doesn’t sound weird at all. Your interviewer was going on about the larger firm and asking what you knew about it, so saying your dad works there is a pretty natural response. Definitely not some ham-fisted name-drop like “Did I mention I’m so-and-so’s daughter?” And for what it’s worth, connections are a major way people land jobs, so if him knowing your dad helps you in any way, it’s nothing to be ashamed of.

    2. Blue eagle*

      On the other hand if the interviewer did not get along with your father, it may hurt your chances. It is one thing to acknowledge your father if the interviewer brings up his name, it is another thing for you to volunteer that he worked there. It is not weird to refrain from mentioning a family member who works at a particular place.

      One other thing to consider is that the interviewer may be wondering why you would prefer to work at a smaller firm if your father works at the larger firm and maybe you are just using this interview as a practice.

      1. yay nepotism*

        The interviewer seemed to have a positive response, and when I mentioned him to my dad later he also responded fairly positively–and anyway they worked together over a decade ago, so even if they didn’t get along (which is possible; my dad can be a bit weird and lacks some social graces) I’d hope it wouldn’t matter anymore. Although now I’m concerned about that…

        My dad’s firm has a policy; I couldn’t work there even if I wanted to. And in the whole ‘does the size of our firm feel like the right fit’ discussion I expressed that I preferred smaller offices. (This firm is actually a pretty major one, but their main office is in another city. The office in my city is much much smaller, which I like.)

      2. Observer*

        ne other thing to consider is that the interviewer may be wondering why you would prefer to work at a smaller firm if your father works at the larger firm and maybe you are just using this interview as a practice.
        =============================================================
        Why? I can’t see the logic in assuming that just because someone works in one type of firm, their child is automatically going to want to work in the same type of firm. It could actually even go in the other direction – that based on her father’s experience at that type of firm, she specifically does NOT want to work in that type of place.

        I’m not saying that that’s what is happening here, but from the point of view of an interviewer, it’s just too possible that that’s that case, or that it simply doesn’t have that much weight for her, to make your conclusion reasonable.

  222. CC*

    What kind of network-building things, other than golfing and going out for drinks after work, are considered not unusual? I don’t like the taste of alcohol (at company events with a bar, I will quietly discuss non-alcoholic drinks with the bartender so I have something to hold) and I’m both terrible at, and not interested in, golfing.

    I can easily see why golfing is a network building activity; the majority of the time is spent in a conversation-sized group ambling along the course with short intervals of taking turns doing an activity and scoring. I have a similar hobby wherein a conversation-sized group ambles along a course with short intervals of activity and scoring, but it involves arrows and thus requires a safety course before participating.

    Going out for drinks though – what other “going out for [social thing with conversation] after work” could I suggest?

    1. vpc*

      Depending on the size of your town, tapas / appetizers at a trendy restaurant (that’s not too loud, and near-ish the office) would work. Some people might drink, others might not, but framing it as “nibbles” instead of “drinks” leaves the option open to not focus on the alcohol. Maybe bowling, which doesn’t involve pointy things being shot at targets? And I’ve seen some success with volunteering as a team – in our town a lot of community organizations allow volunteers to sign up as a group for the same time slot, i.e. saturday afternoon at the food bank is always a boy scout troop and the first Tuesday evening every month is a group from a specific company.

      1. CC*

        Thanks, some things to add to possibilities. There’s also lunches, which aren’t after work, but are (hopefully) less likely to include alcohol.

  223. Jay*

    I am currently working as temp in a company. I will be moving elsewhere for a permanent role. Is it okay if I buy some chocolates as a simple farewell gift for my colleagues?

    1. Wrench Turner*

      It wouldn’t hurt but isn’t necessary. If you made some real office friends, just a card is okay too.

  224. T.T. Pot*

    Does a company have to post a job opening on its web site, or publicly? We’ve got a weird situation going on at my company. I overheard that in order to get a less-than-stellar employee out of our department (he can’t be fired as he’s the kid of a higher-up), they’re creating a brand new position just for him. There’s been a lot of closed door meetings, hush-hush conversations, etc., but nothing is being posted.
    If they just want to transfer this dude, why don’t they just do it? Is there a law stating your must post the position.
    I’m in Pa., if it helps.

  226. technicals*

    I use a wide-mouth canning funnel for bag-transference, but an ice cube tray would be a great solution for when I just want a soupy snack!

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