open thread – April 28-29, 2017

by Alison Green on April 28, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. Lillie Lane*

    If your company ever suddenly fired or laid off a coworker (and you weren’t able to say goodbye), did you reach out to them later? Why or why not?

    1. the gold digger*

      Oh yes. I worked with one woman for a while and she just – disappeared. I liked her and thought she did good work, so I wrote her a note and asked HR to write her address on it an mail it. (They would not give me her home address – and this was before LinkedIn.)

      Unless I knew someone were fired for something really bad (as in, keeping in touch with the person would hurt my reputation), why wouldn’t I keep in touch?

    2. Jennifer*

      No, because having been there myself, I know it’s painful to hear from people who still work there when you don’t. Doesn’t mean we don’t like each other, but it’s painful and awkward.

      1. esra*

        See, I actually liked when people sent notes after my team got laid off. It depends on the person.

        1. LizzE*

          Another one who appreciates it when ex-colleagues reach out to me. It might be painful to talk the day of or the days after, but in the long run I appreciate people making the effort do so. For my personal well-being, I like knowing these people socially. For my professional well-being, I need to network with these people.

      2. kac*

        Submitted as evidence that everyone is so different:

        When I was let go, I really appreciated that a few people reached out to say that they wished me well, etc.

        1. Anna*

          Same. I still talk to most of the people I worked with and those I don’t, it’s just because we lost touch.

        2. Annie Moose*

          I was laid off as part of a large layoff last year, and I was really disappointed that even though I gave people my personal email, not one of them even sent me a “oh that’s too bad, hope things go well for you” note. Not a single one. :(

          1. Engineer Woman*

            Ooh, I feel for you. I was once part of large layoff as well, but almost everyone I came across (it wasn’t same day departure for me, but I “got to” stay another month to transition my work! Yay! -*sarcasm) wished me well. I appreciated their well wishes.

            I still keep in touch with a few folks. But I haven’t much kept in touch with other colleagues that had left earlier and sometimes I wish I did.

      3. Mallory Janis Ian*

        I appreciated being contacted, too; that way, I didn’t feel like I had the lay-off cooties.

      4. Antilles*

        This probably varies from person to person and based on the situation. When I was laid off, I got several voice mails and text messages from ex co-workers mentioning how disappointed and angry they were about it. And I absolutely *loved* hearing that – after hearing the company say “nope, we just can’t afford you” (which hurts even though it’s nothing against me), it’s great to have other people tell you that “dude, you rock”.

      5. Sam*

        Yes but it’s worse to know people you worked with for years sometimes don’t even care. And let them know that they should keep the channels open, (if you feel that way), for a reference or for opportunities you may come to know of.

    3. NoMoreMrFixit*

      Opposite thing happened to me. My previous position was eliminated due to a reorg and I sent out an email to say goodbye to some of my coworkers. 3 of us were let go at once so the office never organized a farewell for any of us. Then again it was a strange place to work at the best of times. But saying goodbye on my terms did give me a sense of closure.

    4. Gaia*

      Yes. I felt horrible for her because of how my normally great OldJob really screwed up a delicate situation. We hired her, sponsored her visa, moved her here and 3 days into her job we made her position redundant. She had left family behind and now found herself in an unstable immigration situation in a foreign country with little support. She ended up doing really great and found another job here quickly and is happy and adjusting well (it seems) and we keep in touch and occasionally get coffee.

      1. Artemesia*

        I will never understand this kind of cruelty. I know people who were heavily recruited, left good jobs and then immediately laid off due to reorganization. IN each case they were not there long enough for them to have been fired or found wanting. One gave up a very nice tenured position and was out of a job in two weeks. To hire someone internationally and leave them high and dry is unconscionable. Somebody knew what was in the offing and that somebody should have stopped hiring.

        2. Sualah*

          That sort of situation happened to me, but the good thing was that I work for a big financial institution and it was just one department to another. So they recruited me to the other department and then on my second day, I found out I’d have to go back to my old department in two months. And since I’d have to go back, they wouldn’t give me much work to do. I call that my “quick and pointless career cul-de-sac.”

          1. Artemesia*

            When my husband followed me in my major career move, leaving a great job where he was very successful he unexpectedly found it difficult to get a new job in his field. Sort of a brother in law town and he was too senior to be hired ahead of new junior associates at the firm but not senior enough or connected enough to be a rain maker. After a year he landed two offers, he took the one that paid slightly less but that was more interesting to him. The job he didn’t take was given to another guy — and within two months the job was eliminated in a re-org. I can’t tell you how grateful I was that that wasn’t us. After a year of having screwed up my husband’s career, I don’t think I could have survived that happening to us. My husband handled it all much more gracefully than I could have. Forever grateful.

      2. Ruffingit*

        OH MY GOD. No. That is just so incredibly wrong. You just don’t bring someone over from a foreign country and then dump them three days later. WHAT??? I can’t. That is just horrifying.

    5. Amadeo*

      I’ve been on the other side of that, fired suddenly (12 years ago) and a couple of friends I’d made at work did absolutely keep in touch with me and we did a few things together still.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        This happened after I got laid off at OldExJob, because it was so sudden. Most of those people I’ve lost touch with now, but my old supervisor and I are still in touch, and the cool facilities guy. And the cool marketing guy who got laid off the same day. We’re all mostly Facebook friends, though Former Supervisor and I go to lunch occasionally. Marketing Guy has a band that I’m a fan of and I finally went to see it (I hate going to bars alone so I just….didn’t. But I’m glad I finally did.).

    6. Windchime*

      I wasn’t fired, but I gave notice and then the following day was called into HR and told not to come back. They paid me for my notice period but didn’t let me work it. Fortunately I had sent an email to my entire team when I gave notice, but to everyone else it probably looked like I was fired. I’ve stayed in touch with people I was friends with before, but it was still a crappy way for management to handle it.

      1. ChrysantheMumsTheWord*

        I had a fired coworker call me and felt the opposite – I was not glad they called. It wasn’t my business why they were fired but they felt they had to make their case known to someone that was still there and wanted me to spread the word to other staff, I guess.

        Ex-coworker told me where they had hid documents that explained that their side of everything. I found the documents, shredded them without reading them and didn’t tell anyone else about the call. Wasn’t my business, nor anyone else’s.

        And yes, this coworker’s termination was likely justified based on behavior I had experienced first hand..but again – not my place either way.

        1. Anon today...and tomorrow*

          Yeah – I’ve had people reach out to me that I wasn’t happy to hear from. In my case it was because they wanted to complain and get me to take their side and it felt toxic.

      2. Lissa*

        I had this happen too, and I was glad she let me know. That place was a shitshow though so I wasn’t surprised at the entire chain of events, sadly.

    8. Jesmlet*

      No, I feel like the ball’s in their court as to whether or not they feel comfortable reaching out and letting me know what happened. If we’re close enough that I’d want to say goodbye, it probably isn’t goodbye, it’s see you later…

      1. Confused Teapot Maker*

        From experience, agreed.

        We had somebody who was let go suddenly – like, got called into the boss’ office one afternoon and was just gone after that. I felt bad for her but, to be honest, we weren’t that close at work. HOWEVER, I did always assume it was the company who had behaved really badly as, from where I was sat, it looked like they had decided to tweak her role and then fired her two weeks later when she couldn’t adapt quick enough.

        Actually, somebody from the office did stay in touch with her – turns out her performance had been a problem for about the last six months, she was on multiple warnings and the job tweaks were more of a last straw move to get her to do what she’d actually been hired for rather than what she’d been doing. Basically, she knew she was about to get fired so I imagine I might have rubbed salt in the wound if I’d come along and been like, “I can’t believe they did that to you, the jerks!”

        1. ST*

          “they had decided to tweak her role and then fired her two weeks later when she couldn’t adapt quick enough”

          That’s essentially what is happening to me.
          I’ve been moved into reporting to a department head of a department that really has only a tenuous relationship to what I’ve been doing for 20 years. It’s a bit of a culture clash.

    9. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

      I’ve been hesitant to do it, just because I don’t know if the person would want to hear from someone at the former company right away. I’m not sure if it would be too upsetting, especially if the person left the company on bad terms.

      And here I contradict myself by saying I’ve had former coworkers reach out to me via LinkedIn or Facebook after I was let go, and I appreciated it. It was actually kind of a comfort.

    10. SophieChotek*

      Yes this happened to me last year. I work for a small division and 2 co-workers were laid off the first week in January 2016. I know none of us saw this coming — except for the VP and Operations Manager. But the person to whom I was closer, was laid off on a Monday; just the Thursday before we had been having a strategy meeting planning for projects for the next month or so.

      I waited a month or so then just texted or emailed her and said I hoped we could remain in contact. We still do sporadically email or text.

    11. Emmie*

      As someone who was laid off before, I really appreciated those who reached out to me. It felt awkward talking to others about my layoff. I still remember those who asked me out to lunch, still spoke to me, and / or proactively shared very kind words to me. Like “we couldn’t believe it was you they laid off / they’re not smart for that / you’re a great employee, you’ll land in a better place.” So many people say nothing, and it was like loosing part of my life.

    12. Kate*

      I have with colleagues who were laid off, several times. It seems like laid off folks often feel shocked, embarrassed and isolated. I hope that reaching out helps with those feelings. I also want to keep in touch with these people, and can’t imagine doing that without acknowledging their situation during a tough transition period.

      I keep it simple– just a short email saying something like, “Hey, I heard your position was eliminated. I’m so sorry. I always enjoyed working with you. If there’s anything I can do to assist with your job search*, please let me know. Take care, Kate”

      *I’m a recruiter, so that can be a helpful offer. I’ve only received positive responses back.

      1. Artemesia*

        I was on the wrong side of a merger and it makes you feel like a pariah when people don’t reach out and acknowledge the misery of it.

    13. animaniactoo*

      Only if I was already pretty friendly with them, and either talked to them outside of work or had a long working history with them.

    14. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I had a lot of people reach out to me when I was terminated. I appreciated it, but also didn’t particularly want to talk to them in detail about what happened.

    15. DD*

      Yes, but it would depend on the person and the circumstances.

      I have been on the wrong end of this and it was nice to hear from friendly co-workers who were genuinely sympathetic/outraged on my behalf, but maddening to hear from a senior manager who I know probably had a day in the decision to eliminate my team and not funds place for me.

    16. Quinalla*

      Yes, usually I’ve done it with a request to connect on linked-in (as I’m bad about connecting with coworkers) with a quick “I really enjoyed working with you, please keep in touch!”, more personal if I knew them well. Then leave it at that unless they respond so that if they don’t want to talk now or ever, that is left up to them. A few have never responded beyond connecting on linked-in, most respond in some fashion and some I still regularly talk to. I never pry for details, but have listened to their side if they wanted to tell me, but that only happened once so far.

    18. Anon today*

      I’m going through this right now. I was laid off the end of March and am currently out of town visiting my family. today is my former supervisor’s last day, as he gave notice shortly after I left. I’m grateful that we are now connected on LinkedIn but sad I’m not there for his going away lunch.
      It’s hard to say goodbye to a wonderful friendship.

    19. LiveAndLetDie*

      Yes! We recently had layoffs and I’ve kept in touch with a handful of folks that were let go. One of them was a direct report of mine, so I wanted to assure her that I valued her work and offer to be a reference. The others were just folks I’d befriended over the course of our time here together and I wanted to say I’m happy to keep in touch and I wish them well.

    20. Charlottemousse*

      I did once, as we were work-friendly at the office, and I wanted to wish him well. I had been wavering since I wasn’t quite sure whether reaching out would be welcome or not, but ultimately, I thought it was the right thing to do. I considered his positive personality and that we were friendly at the office in figuring out what to do. He responded well, and we kept in touch for several months thereafter during his job search until he moved across the country.

    21. CaliforniaGurl*

      I wish… I was fired about a month ago, a day before my vacation. I shared an office with two coworkers I considered friends, we were friendly after work, befriended each other on social media and so on. Apparently they both knew I am about to be sacked because they both left work unusually early, I guess to avoid any possible drama and awkwardness of me packing my things. Anyways not one of them reached out to me afterwards via text message, email or social media. After I came back from my vacation I deleted them off my Facebook, but I must admit it hurts that I considered them friends and they didn’t even have the decency to say goodbye. I guess we were not friends after all…

    22. legalchef*

      Yes, and no. Someone with whom I worked directly at my old job was fired suddenly (not suddenly to him, but seemed sudden to everyone else). I didn’t reach out, mostly because he was a jerk who deserved to get fired (given the messes of his I had to clean up afterwards).

    23. mew*

      Yes, I was laid off after 22 years with my company, and I was on short term disability as well. So I pushed the STD as far as I could, since they had to wait til I came back from that to make it official. I got an extra 3 months of pay, part of the bonus for the year, and my severance. I only talk to one or two people since I’ve been gone. I still haven’t found another job, and it’s been a year.

    24. Phantom*

      Once, a coworker was fired rather abruptly for something that was not entirely within his control. We worked for a small company with a CEO who never hesitated to fire people who weren’t living up to expectations, which meant we didn’t have to deal with deadweight for long, but we lost some good people we probably shouldn’t have. In my book, the ex-coworker was in the latter category. When he was fired, I emailed him to let him know I was sorry to see him go, and he shared his side of the story with me and told me he had some other opportunities lined up. But, continuing any sort of communication with a guy who felt wronged by a company that I still felt was a pretty great place to work felt awkward.

      Several years later, when I was at a different company, I noticed his resume left in a conference room. I was able to find our old email exchange, which refreshed my memory on what had happened, and I reached out again to see if he wanted me to put in a good word for him. A few weeks later, we were coworkers again.

    25. OldJules*

      If we are close enough to talk about personal things, yes. We remained friends henceforth too. A couple of them were and are still friends with me.

    26. Life is Good*

      No. Because the person who was fired was so toxic that many of us avoided her for many months beforehand. There was a collective sigh of relief after she was gone.

    27. Manders*

      I didn’t, and I regret it. My current office just disappears people with no announcement, and she’d been out sick on and off for a few months before she was fired, so it took me a little while to notice she was even gone for good. She also unfriended some other people in the office that she had been connected to on Facebook, so I assumed that she didn’t want to hear anything from me. But she was a nice person caught in a rough situation and I should have reached out and offered to be her reference.

    28. Liz*

      Yes. I worked very closely with someone who was laid off who I had really enjoyed working with and who was a great asset to the team at the time (unfortunately the position itself just didn’t make sense anymore). I emailed them privately a two weeks later, after I heard through the grapevine they had a promising offer from a competitor, just to say how much I admired their skill and liked working with them, and to provide my personal email should they ever want to reach out. I got back a pretty positive response so I think it was taken well.

      I would not have reached out if I didn’t work closely with him, if I wasn’t sincerely very bummed he was let go, or if I knew he was struggling to get another job and it could rub salt in the wound.

    29. katamia*

      If we were very close, yeah, after a week or two to give them time to process things. But not if we were just friendly coworkers.

    30. Snow*

      This happened very recently. I did reach out, even though I worried it might be awkward or painful, because the person had been a friend as well as a co-worker. I was not consulted about the decision to let this person go, and I did not agree with it. I wanted to help them as they looked for a new job, as best as I can, and I wanted to remain friends if they wanted to. I was relieved when they were happy to hear from me rather than hurt. (Though of course, if they had not wanted to respond, I’d have backed off.)

    31. Connie-Lynne*

      Two places I’ve worked have “alumni” FB groups. They’re wonderful ways to keep in touch.

    32. copy run start*

      Not for a firing. The one person who was fired was basically asking for it with their behavior, and I 100% agreed with the firing. I felt it would be embarrassing since we weren’t close, and I basically detested them, so I didn’t want to stay in touch.

      Never been through a lay off, but I would probably do so after a couple of days, unless we were very close. Then it would probably be more immediate.

    33. Emelle*

      I did one time, because I thought my former coworker got screwed. I knew he had been put on performance, but I also knew that his manager was not being totally forthcoming with the performance issues. Basically he would request a project over email, make significant changes to the project verbally, and when the project didn’t meet the email specs, he nailed him on that. He also would pull very rough drafts off the shared drive and present that as a final draft to the board- but none of us could prove it was happening (HR included). Anyway, I kept in touch- even recommended him for a couple of temp jobs with a close friend’s organization. He got the exact same job with a different org about 12 years ago and that org has had wonderful things to say about him.
      (The jerk manager left the first org and it took them almost 2 years to fully recover from the stuff he hid.)

    34. Janey*

      I did reach out to another manager after he was let go suddenly. We had worked at the same company for 5+ years and I felt the reasons for his being let go were at least partially out of his control. I offered to be a professional reference for him in his job search going forward because it’s hard after that many years.

      On the other hand, I had a manager freak out and ‘rage quit’ at work because of some office reorganization that was happening. She called back the next day to try and salvage the situation, but no go. I did not reach out to her because I didn’t feel comfortable with how everything went down.

    35. Bea W*

      It’s happened a several times on my own team. In all cases they were let go for cause. I didn’t contact them later. Mostly I had no contact info and would have had to look them up, but it just felt awkward and I wasn’t close to any of them.

  2. Questioner*

    I’m starting a new job next week after being at my current (toxic and dysfunctional) company for 6 years. I’m excited but also nervous because I have picked up some bad work habits over the last several years. For example: procrastinating, not meeting all the minor deadlines (though I always met the major deadlines), browsing the internet on my computer and phone, “bitching” about the management, coming in late (910-920 instead of 9, but I always stayed roughly 8 hours).

    I want to unlearn the bad habits and re-learn how to be excellent. The other thing is: after being in a toxic work environment for so long, my professional confidence is not what it used to be. I want to get it back.

    Have you ever been in a similar situation? What worked/what didn’t? Any suggestions for how I can do this?

    1. Tempest*

      I can’t offer much advice but I start my new job in three long weeks after a similar sort of toxic environment/slide into coasting so I’ll be eagerly following the replies along with you! I already intend to show up early. I know I have loads of enthusiasm so I’ll be certain to show up with a good attitude and let that show, but beyond that I’ll wait for other people’s advice with interest.

    2. kavm*

      Oh man… I’m in a similar situation, but without the new job… Still stuck at a place that has ingrained very similar bad habits in me. I hate it but I feel so frustrated and don’t know how to break the cycle.

      I would just really focus on being optimistic and happy at leaving behind an awful workplace, and make a real effort to counteract those bad habits – at least you recognize them, so you can be proactive! Aim to show up 5 minutes early, maybe set reminders and follow-ups for any deadlines, even minor ones. Good luck!

    3. strawberries and raspberries*

      I think the best thing you can do when you’re adjusting to a new job is to (as best as you can) stop thinking about your old job. Every time you’re tempting to say, “At my old job we used to…” just stop talking. Take a lot of notes. Ask your supervisor during your onboarding time how they best like to communicate, and how they’d like to you to track all of your major and minor deadlines and projects (if there’s not something set up already). Making the effort to learn the new process, rather than unlearn the old habits, will keep you occupied enough that you can figure out new ways to be excellent.

      Also, the work culture could be wildly different, such that something that would have been a bad habit at another job could be less pressing. Obviously things like bitching about management and coming in late aren’t okay, but (for instance) if you leave an environment where you’re overloaded with projects that all have the same level of urgency and then suddenly in your new job you’re only responsible for three key deliverables, it may get easier to prioritize those and you may find that you actually do have more free time. Which doesn’t mean you’re slacking or procrastinating, it means you’re more efficient.

      1. Jaydee*

        Even the arriving late may not end up being a big deal. Obviously don’t start moseying in 15 minutes late right away. But you may find your new employer is flexible about start times as long as the work gets done or you may find that you want to get there early to have some quiet time to get settled or focus on projects before the day really starts.

    4. Anon-Mouse*

      Are you me? Because I’m in the same boat! Leaving terrible work place for a much better one but I don’t want to bring my bad habits with me. I plan to embrace the new job with all the enthusiasm I have, learn their ways and their expectations, and basically do everything that my old boss would have labeled as an over-achiever and my old coworkers probably would have told me to slow down because I’m making them look bad.

      Good luck to you, fellow new worker, and congrats on getting out of the toxic place!

    5. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      I had that problem when I switched to my current job as I was feeling so burned out from my previous job and I brought a lot of stress and bad habits with me. To try and fix it/get out of those habits, I become more organized with creating to-do lists/schedules, making sure I was 5 minutes early, putting a time blocker on certain websites that distract me and keeping conversations light about work. Now that I’ve been here for almost two years, I’ve had to keep up with them as much but every once in awhile when I feel myself starting to put things off or not be as efficient, I’ll go back to those systems as they really helped me start my job off on the right foot.

    6. The Other Dawn*

      I do all of those except bitch about management. I started these habits at OldJob that I’d been at for over a decade and had a certain comfort level. It’s just carried over into this job and I don’t know how to change it. I’m actually very happy here, so I really have no reason to do these things other than I have a very laid-back, hands-off manager; he’s very engaged, but he expects that we’re all adults and only cares about the work getting done, rather than HOW it’s done and how long my butt was in my seat. That’s probably why I haven’t felt compelled to change.

      Sorry, no advice. Just wanted to commiserate.

    7. Blue eagle*

      One thing that is always appreciated by everyone is if you are on time. For everything. So to start your re-learning good habits, I would make it a point to be at work 10 minutes before the starting time. The reason is that if there is something that causes you to be 10 minutes late (you forgot to put something in the car that you need and you need to go back in the house, traffic tie-up, etc) you will still be on time.

      Next thing is to figure out a way that works best for you to manage unlimited non-work browsing. If going cold turkey doesn’t work for you, how can you limit yourself. Say, maybe hold off any morning browsing till 10 and afternoon browsing till 3 and only allow yourself one opportunity to browse each morning and afternoon. Or whatever limit you figure out for yourself that would work for you.

      1. ali*

        I really need to do this regarding browsing. Unfortunately, my job occasionally requires Facebook and Twitter use, so I can’t just block them entirely. But I really like this suggestion.

    8. Windchime*

      I just decide that I was going to change. My old workplace was horrifically toxic; little groups of people bitching to each other, stress, unreasonable deadlines, etc. I was at BEC stage with a lot of employees and when I came to my new job, I decided I wasn’t going to be that person any longer.

      Examples of what I changed: People who just stand around and yak all day bug the heck out of me. In Oldjob, I would have complained to a coworker or my manager. Now I put on my headphones and just keep working. Not my business to complain about or bitch about someone who isn’t on my team.

      Another example: A coworker recently tried to pull me into a bitch session about our boss. He made a comment on Skype about how he feels she is a micro-manager. I just replied, “That hasn’t been my experience.” And then I STOPPED participating.

      It really is that easy in most cases. Turn your phone ringer off and put it in a drawer. I turn my ringer off and turn it upside-down unless I am actively expecting an important call. Make a to-do list every morning and hold yourself accountable to check off as many tasks as you can.

      You can do it! I know you can!

      1. Life is Good*

        Windchime is right on! The more I read AAM, the more I am convinced that there are many, many crappy workplaces out there. I have been at my new workplace (after having been in a really awful office environment for more than a decade) for a year. I have applied many of Windchime’s principles and they work. Don’t let stuff that is above your pay grade to worry about get to you. I am now working for a well managed company that is filled with hard working, competent people. I got lucky!

    9. Parenthetically*

      Yep, absolutely have been there.

      Two things: 1) a daily schedule/agenda, just for you, with work tasks you want to accomplish on it; and 2) a checklist or (silly as it sounds) affirmations list of positive traits or actions you want to aim for or want to be known for, maybe with some drilled-down action points. So based on your comment, your checklist could look like:

      Timeliness and promptness: I value my coworkers’ time and seek to use my time well for both work and rest.
      – (details about morning schedule)
      – (details about using time well at work)
      – (details about using breaks for rest/unplugging)
      – (details about using downtime/slow time well)
      – (details about using electronics on work time)
      Respect and professionalism: I speak and comport myself professionally and seek to build my reputation among my peers and bosses.
      – (details about managing complaints/concerns)
      – (details about how you speak to/about coworkers)
      – (details about how you speak to/about managers/bosses)
      – (details about how you collaborate with coworkers)
      Etc. Etc. for as many goals as you have.

      For me, having an overarching “this is who I want to be and how I want to be perceived” combined with specific ways I can work toward that on a daily basis really helps me keep one eye on the big picture and one eye on the steps to get there. I deal with anxiety, so the big picture is calming to me because I have something to aim for, and the details help me focus and take action.

    10. Lauren*

      I’m in the EXACT same boat. I’ve realized that my behavior is better when I am receiving positive feedback. I work faster, I don’t avoid the projects I don’t care about. And just in general stay focused enough to get my stuff done on time. I still ‘bitch’ about management and come into work late, but I’m having trouble conjuring up the good feedback part.

      My last company was toxic too, but the way I stayed engaged was because I had 12 clients who would give me positive feedback on an ongoing basis. It kept me going. But here, I only have 2 clients and I just don’t get enough positive interactions. I now look to impress, one boss – its not enough, but all I have.

      As for your new gig, determine what ways you can elicit positive feedback by doing good work – from clients, from a boss, from diff teams / co-workers. Find a buddy – someone that makes you feel happy to talk to as well. It helps. All my buddies quit, so I don’t even have an outlet to be completely honest on stuff.

    11. Artemesia*

      I was twice; once a new position and once switched to a different department in the same large organization. I think it is critical to be strategic about impression management for the first three months.

      e.g. in the new position, after losing my job in a merger and taking a part time job, I took on a seemingly minor task and really threw myself into it doing a bang up job. Unknown to me, what looked like a sort of minor task (it involved pulling together a team of people across the organization to work on a new project) was something the organization had struggled with and so when I put 26 people around a table it was like magic to them. This little overachievement led to a great permanent job that played out in long term career advancement.

      In the department transfer, I organized myself to be seen visibly doing a difficult task that most of the team didn’t want to do; I cemented my reputation as the person who had that under control and it served me well as I made progress in that department.

      Pick some tasks you are assigned to do and commit to making them heroic projects, be well organized using lists and avoiding procrastination one task at a time, show up early and leave late — i.e. establish your reputation in those early weeks and the rest will be easier.

    12. designbot*

      I was in this situation coming into the job I’m at now. The hardest thing for me is to stop being so defensive! I’ve noticed I go into CYA mode too quickly, so it takes conscious efforts to view peers and higher-ups as partners with the same goal as me, instead of as enemies whose goal is to bring me down. When something makes me tense up with that dread like I’m about to find myself under a bus, I take a few deep breaths and try to remind myself, “people here don’t do that. What do you actually want to come out of this besides people not to see you at fault?” And I write down bullet points of what I think the ideal resolution to a situation is before I talk to anyone about it–do I want additional staff to help me with something? Do I need a principal to make a call and remind someone of what is and isn’t in our contract? This gets me out of fearful flurry mode and into something more productive.

      1. Your Weird Uncle*

        That’s so helpful, thanks! I’ve been in a few toxic work environments and notice that I do this, too. (Is there anything worse than hearing, ‘Can you come into my office?’ followed by ‘Close the door’? I’m breaking out into a cold sweat just thinking about it….) I’m going to try your suggestions starting today.

        This is why I love this blog!

    13. BeenThere*

      I’ve been there before. I found that a combination of tools such as OneNote and “chunking” (calendar blocks with tasks to complete) was extremely helpful. As you update your OneNote, constantly ask why, which helps to keep you engaged and learning new things.

    14. dr_silverware*

      I think part of it is, you’ve got to understand why you were procrastinating and coming in late. Part of resolving it may be just resetting your habits, but also part of your procrastination may have been anxiety and fear. So for that issue, you’ve also got to make sure you don’t start falling down an anxiety hole. From the start, make sure you are confidently asking the questions you have, keeping your new boss honestly up to date on how you’re doing, and noticing if you start to feel stressed & bad as the same way as before so you can catch it early.

      For my credentials, I was really not doing good work at my old crummy job, in large part because it was stressful and made me feel powerless and incompetent. Now, I do excellent work at my new good job, because it’s not so stressful and I feel competent again.

    15. Jane Gloriana Villanueva*

      Congrats on the new position and good luck, Questioner!

      I’m wondering if your username is simply because you are asking a question or because you follow Gretchen Rubin and Questioner is your Tendency, but regardless, as GR says, and evidently there is some research to back this up, starting a new routine is actually a great time to learn new habits. You have a tabula rasa. For me, when I quit my job 9 years ago to go to grad school full time and find a part-time job in my new field, I was excited until I hit the wall of FREAKING OUT. Thankfully, one of my best friends pointed out that nobody knew me and what a benefit that could be. Yes, you want people to know you’re awesome, but you also don’t have the baggage of being the person who rolls in late, etc. etc. You want your first several impressions to be positive, and that in itself can be extremely motivating.

      However, motivation can falter. For me, I vowed my Facebook and Twitter feeds would never show up on my government computer systems, so for 7.5 years in multiple jobs, I have never logged into either of these networks on a system that has my credentials. When you have a streak going, you can be loathe to break it. Also, I iron a lot, even though I don’t like it, but I thankfully don’t have too many dry-clean clothes and so I end up having to pay with my time. But when I started ironing on Sundays and vowed to do all my outfits for the week, not only did I know what I was wearing most days in advance (room to switch out and change my mind – know yourself :) ), but then it led to me prepping more things in advance. Chopping up fruit and putting it in containers. Making sure my keys, badge and glasses are all in the pocketbook I want to use the next day.

      I am hardly perfect at this, but I have noticed that feeling more in control of one section of life leads to improved confidence in another. I falter all the time, because I don’t get enough sleep and eat too much sugar. So, this professional change is all-around beneficial. Figure out the 3-5 top priorities for NewJob Questioner, and sally forth!

    16. Anon the twenty third*

      Also can’t offer much advice, but I’m about to jump into a similar situation. My work is so toxic right now that my grand boss was literally bullying someone who is under me (an admin, being bullied on freaking administrative professional’s day!), so bad HR is likely to get involved, but the truth is we don’t have the power to change much. They’re the ones who bring in money, we’re just the ones who do the work once they bring it in.

    18. Anna*

      One of the things I had to do was not create scenarios in my mind for why my boss would want to talk to me. I had to start keeping an open mind. I would get nervous and upset about a meeting with my boss and then we’d talk and it was about some normal work thing and I would be relieved, but I didn’t like going into those meetings feeling dread. It is not easy to get rid of the paranoia. In fact, I am right now trying not to read too much into the fact that my boss called to see if we could meet today. On a Friday. At the end of the day. In reality, it’s going to be about some press release or letter I need to send out or some event she’s thinking of doing and that is all.

      1. Drago cucina*

        The first thing I try to say to staff after, ‘I need to talk to you’ is ‘It’s not bad.’ I freak out too when someone says, Uber Boss is on the phone.

    19. In-house accountant for an accounting firm*

      Not much advice to offer, just commiseration. I’m much like you in regards to procrastination and coming in late. Things vastly changed at my work last year when two people left my four person department. Suddenly, I went from little work to do, to being overwhelmed with work. I still haven’t really caught up. I tend to let the things I don’t want to do slide until I can’t procrastinate any longer. I try to stay organized, but find it difficult to keep up with it most of the time.

      If I was starting over, I’d plan for organization right away. That’s my advice to you. From the start, organize your time, organize your space. I know there have been past threads asking for recommendations for how to organize tasks. I use OneNote at work and it mostly works for me, but I know there are better applications out there.

    20. StayPuff Marshmellow*

      I have experienced this exact thing except it all happened within the same office/position. For the first 5 years of my previous job we had a revolving door of toxic co-workers. We were a small clinic, so think 8-10 people excluding interns. Those first 5 years I definitely acquired a horrible and embarrassing work ethic, exactly as you describe: late all the time, playing online, bad attitude, etc. Then finally one day the last toxic co-worker was gone and the newest hires were two amazing co-workers that changed the entire environment. I actually loved coming into work, we all got along, we helped each other, inside jokes were shared amongst the entire office, there was catty gossiping. All those years of bad habits quickly changed for me. I was 10-15-20 minutes early everyday, I didn’t care if we had to stay late b/c someone still had a client to finish up with. Overall it was a very positive work environment and I realized I was also the happiest I ‘d ever been outside of working hours.

      I think I changed/improved personally because I really liked my coworkers and didn’t want to disappoint them.

      I guess I share this because, even though you will likely need to be very conscious of your behaviors initially, you may find if your new position/company is an overall better place that you will quickly adapt to practicing better habits all around.

    21. Kindling*

      I wasn’t at my old dysfunctional job quite long enough to pick up many bad habits, but one thing that I think helped me let go of it mentally was to make other lifestyle changes in addition to the new job. I started to make an effort to lose weight a few months into the new job and weirdly, I think it helped. I also got my first pet. I think it made me feel less like “I have a new job” and more like “I have a new life”. It made me feel almost like a different person who had that job, and helped me let go of the couple of bad habits I did develop.

    22. JulieBulie*

      Same thing happened to me about four years. I was surprised to discover that once I was in a healthy working environment again, a lot of my bad habits went away because they were not being triggered anymore.

      For sure you’ll want to tread lightly at first. But try to leave the toxic baggage behind and give yourself a chance to do a good job. You’ll be surprised at how much easier it is to do your work when you’re not surrounded by crazy-making behavior.

      Good luck!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This, this, this.
        Those things you call habits might actually be protective moves you were using. When you do not need to protect yourself, you simply will stop doing them.

        1. JulieBulie*

          Yes! Protection of my professional reputation, my personal dignity, and even my sanity. I never thought of it that way; I just thought everybody’s negativity was rubbing off on me. Thanks for the insight!

    23. MissDisplaced*

      You have to decide to change. And it also helps if your new boss is great.
      I’ve had that happen. I left a very toxic place where the owner berated us and you felt you couldn’t do anything right. But I had a terrific new manager, and soon didn’t feel bad or feel the need to hide things.

    24. BF50*

      I was in a similar situation at my last job. Super toxic, and I hated it so I wasn’t productive. At my new job, I’m a superstar.

      My manager was all over me for showing up 2 to 5 minutes late, so when I started my current job, I managed to get here a solid 15 minutes early for a month, but no one cares. Really, they do not care. twice I’ve put in my self review that I need to improve at being on time to work, and twice my current manager has laughed and rolled his eyes. At my last job, my start time was 8 and I was consistently there at 8:05. Here I set my own start time of 7:30. My actual arrival time has slowly moved from 7:15 to 7:45. I still try to get here at 7:30, but I have two very small children who slow down my attempts to get out the door. My manager strolls in anywhere from before me until 8:30. As long as my work is done, he does not care.

      As far as the rest, not bitching is much easier when you aren’t in a toxic environment. I didn’t even have to try to stop that. It just stopped because there was nothing to bitch about.

      Not being in a toxic environment makes me more motivated, so it’s easier to prioritize and hit deadlines. Also starting with an empty mail box made it easier to get/stay organized.

      The messing around on the internet and phone is something I could still work on. But I’m getting my work done and I think it’s just more acceptable here since I am getting my work done. I’m not browsing the web when I’m about to miss a deadline.

      I love my new job. It’s a much better cultural fit and also, people don’t suck.

      I still have weird reactions to things. This morning my whole team ended up in a meeting I wasn’t invited to and I freaked out, even though I’m up for a promotion and jsut got a stellar review. Turns out, I wasn’t invited because they were helping another department replicate a project they did before I was hired. My contributions would have been minimal. Totally innocent and not about me.

    25. Orlando*

      Kudos to you for recognising this as a potential problem, and working on it!

      The thing I would immediately focus on is “bitching about management”. The other stuff are important too, but they seem like bad work habits that you can train yourself out of, with practice and patience. But the bitching thing reflects on your interpersonal skills, and it’s more about maturity and professionalism. So that’s what I’d focus on first. (Not that I’d ignore the other things, but the bitching is a huge Do Not Do.)

      Also, re the confidence thing- for me, the two issues seem to be connected. What I mean is, confidence is related to accomplishment. We get boosts in our self-esteem by doing a good job on things. I kind of don’t want to tell you “hang in there and do the best you can and it’ll get better eventually”, because that’s obvious and probably what you were planning to do anyway… but, yeah, that’s what I’d do. And kudos again for being proactive about this.

    26. Bess*

      Congrats on moving on to better places!

      I’ve experienced moving from a destructive, gossipy/complainy environment to a no-gossip one. I’d consider just having a no-gossip rule yourself. I get the function of gossip, but found when I engaged in it myself it only made bad things worse, or even skewed neutral or good things bad. Sometimes it’s nice to reality check with your peers to make sure you’re not the only one who thinks something’s off, but beyond that, it wasn’t typically productive for me or the environment.

      Out of work, consider seriously limiting venting to other people–this really helped me–or don’t make it the first thing you do when you get home or go out with friends–unless you’re just blowing off steam for a few minutes or truly figuring out how to problem-solve (which for me often means realizing what is or isn’t my problem to solve in the first place).

    27. Not So NewReader*

      Don’t throw a shoe at me: Confidence comes in part from carrying ourselves like a professional. You want to feel like a professional so do as a professional does, be on time, turn the internet off, quit beefing to others. Unfairly, the two go hand-in-hand when we act less than professional our confidence melts slowly away. Confidence comes from knowing we will make good choices for ourselves. Decide right here and right now, “I am go to be at my professional best.” Commit to this.

      You can do this, it will be okay. You will be in a new place where everything is new, you will have constant reminders that you want to turn over a new leaf.

      You know, it’s funny/odd, we get around people who are behaving professionally and we just automatically beef up what we are doing. It’s so much easier when you know that others are pulling their own weight, too. If you are like most people all it takes is basic respect, when you start seeing people give you basic respect everything will fall in to place for you.

      Watch your self-care, so you can stay on the ball/sharp. Eat healthy meals, hydrate and get rest. You can do that now because work is not an anchor around your neck anymore. I used to stay up late watching tv because it was the only decent thing that happened all day. When I changed jobs I made rest my priority so I could be on top of the things at work. What I learned was when I am tired it is sooo much easier to procrastinate. When I feel more rested, I can just jump into what needs to be done.

      Bitchin’ to others. I do have one small observation on this. I have a finite amount of energy. I can either expend that energy griping to someone OR I can put that energy into figuring out how to talk it over directly with the person involved. I cannot do both as I get to fn tired. To help myself along on this plan, I made a rule that I cannot say something to other people IF I have NOT already said something to the person directly. This rule works most of the time for me. Yes, I fail, then I brush myself off and get back on track.

      I worked with Jane for about three years. One day Jane commented to me, “You never say anything bad about your boss.” Well, for one thing I have a terrific boss and Jane agreed about that. But the other half of the story is I tell my boss to her face about what worries me. My boss isn’t guessing or hearing it from others. If we think about what we want to say we can usually find a way to say it. (Assuming we have a professional for a boss, of course.)

      1. Orlando*

        Yes! That’s a more fluent/elaborate version of what I was trying to say above, regarding the confidence thing. It stems from our choices and accomplishments. Dysfunctional workplaces limit your choices, and offer no opportunities for accomplishments, or don’t reward them. But you’re in a much better position now, OP. It will just take a little time.

    28. Ramona Flowers*

      Some great advice already and you might not see this but in case you do…

      As others have said, these were coping mechanisms and/or reactions to stress, so try to be kind to yourself – you’ve been doing the best you can.

      I got so burned out in my freelance business that I couldn’t do anything without panicking, procrastinating and staying up all night to try to get things done (often fruitlessly). I could barely handle opening my email inbox. And I’d had some really toxic jobs and managers before.

      Some things that helped me ditch bad habits and stress reactions in awesomenewjob:

      I bought some new stuff, e.g. a new bag and wallet. Partly as a ‘yay new job’ gift to myself but also because I wanted to feel different and changing key things, like the bag I took with me to work, seemed to help with that.

      In my view any organisational system has to be something you’ll actually use, and it should make life easier, not take up an excessive amount of your time once it’s set up. There is no point setting up something electronic if you’re happier with paper, or using a wall planner if you won’t look at it. Which is why I write my tasks on unicorn sticky notes.

      Pick at least one person you’d like to emulate in your job (could be a colleague, a TV character, anything) and get in the habit of asking yourself: what would x do in this situation?

      Make a list of what signs might indicate the beginnings of stress or anxiety for you and what it looks like when things are going well. A few times a day, check in with yourself. How are you feeling? You might find you automatically slip into old habits if you start to feel stressed. I found it helped to try to check in with myself – and to be kind to myself.

      Honestly, changing the environment, people and tasks did most of the work. It might also help to remember this is not who you are. It is simply what you did in an old job where you coped the best you could. It doesn’t mean things will always be that way.

      Good luck and enjoy your new job!

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Also, those ‘bad habits’ are actually classic signs of burnout: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/learnvest/2013/04/01/10-signs-youre-burning-out-and-what-to-do-about-it/amp/

        I wonder if Alison would consider an ask the readers post about burnout? It took me ridiculously long to acknowledge it even the second time around, when I’d previously had a minor stress-related breakdown and theoretically knew all the signs in myself. I thought I was just a ridiculous, awful person – who on earth would have panic attacks just over trying to open their inbox?

        I have basically treated newjob like a wonderful retreat where I’ve come to recover.

    29. Introvert*

      I’m applying for new jobs and feel EXACTLY the same way, thank you for posting this.

  3. any update?*

    Has there been an update from the letter writer who accidentally called her boss’s daughter a whore? I have had so many foot-in-mouth moments and I felt so bad for her when I read her letter because I know how it feels.

    Or from the letter writer who had a report that was accused of racism during the hiring process for discriminating against a black candidate? I think of that letter often too.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Alison said that she had one from the LW who called her boss’s daughter a whore. I’m hoping it gets posted today.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        brb, going to refresh the main page every hour on the hour

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Right??? I’ve been anxiously waiting for it all week! I think she mentioned it in last Friday’s open thread.

          2. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

            Alison, I’m pretty sure that on that day, the ad revenue from my clicks alone will buy you a coffee.

          3. PizzaDog*

            This is a hell of a way to get me excited for the weekend to be over before it’s even started!

    2. the other Emily*

      +1 to the letter about the allegedly racist employee. The OP was really engaging in the comments and I hope there was a good outcome.

      1. Observer*

        I also wouldn’t be surprised if the OP hesitates to come back with anything though. That was a worse pile on than most – and also more unfair than typical.

        1. any update?*

          Yeah it was rough. I hope he does though, and that whether he updates or not things turned out well.

        2. Amadeo*

          Yeeeeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t come back either. That was just a disaster.

        3. Wendy Darling*

          I feel bad for him. :/ People had a point that some of the terms he used are sometimes used as a more socially acceptable facade for being racist, but it sounds like that wasn’t what happened there at all (dude was just unprofessional in an interview for a job where speaking professionally is a top priority — whoops) and people would just not let it go.

          You can make a larger theoretical argument about whether privileging one kind of language as “professional” over others is okay, but the fact of the matter is that in the world we actually live in some kinds of speech are considered more socially appropriate in particular contexts and that matters to people.

          2. Amadeo*

            I was pretty horrified the way some people kept going on at him after he explained (over and over and over again) more in depth.

    3. Amy the Rev*

      could someone post a link to that letter? I’m having trouble finding it via the search function.

  4. ms42*

    Anyone have any advice for employer-run job fairs? My local school system has one tomorrow, and I’d like to get a teaching job with them. I’ve never been to a job fair, and don’t really know what to expect (and the archives here are thin on the topic). Do I print out and take resumes? Prepare for interviews? I’m really nervous because this has been a dream of mine for a long time.

    Thanks so much for any advice!

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I used to plan college career fairs, so I can’t give you specifics on employer-run events, but maybe I can be helpful:

      Yes, print out resumes. Dress professionally. You will likely have a few minutes to speak to the recruiter at each station/booth — use that time to learn about what positions are open, express your interest in the roles or organization (if you’re genuinely interested), and give a very quick overview of your qualifications. Be conscientious of the other job-seekers around you and don’t overstay your welcome at each booth. If the booth is empty, feel free to continue the conversation. If there’s a crowd forming, give a few minutes of your time, share your resume, and move on to the next booth. The recruiter likely has a system where s/he makes notes about you on your resume to know whether or not to follow up with you after the job fair. Ask for a business card so that you can follow up with the recruiter on anything that you’re particularly interested in.

      Good luck!

      1. Kate*

        I was going to reply (I’ve planned employer-run job fairs), but Not a Real Giraffe nailed it. Just do all of this.

        If you’re not sure how to introduce yourself succinctly, a good template is, “Hi, I’m __. I have a background in ___, and I’m looking for a position in ___.”

    3. N.J.*

      It’s been awhile since I’ve been to a job fair, much less an employer sponsored one, but I would definitely suggest bringing printed resumes. How many will depend on how many folks you are talking to. Dress in interview or dressy business casual depending on the industry. Though I be never had a full blown interview st a job fair, I would suggest being prepared to describe yourself in a sort of elevator pitch but more along the lines of how you would answer why you would be good for the job and background etc. Look through the positions listed for the fair or on the company’s career site before the fair to have some idea of what you are looking for there.

    4. Judy (since 2010)*

      I represented my company at a community job fair last fall. We took paper resumes that matched our needs (engineering and AP/AR). We were also sent afterwards all of the resumes in electronic format. You may want to bring a thumb drive with your resume just in case.

      One job fair locally that was run by 3 companies actually did 15 minute interviews with the attendees. They had small cubbies for the interviewers to use.

      Along with what Not a Real Giraffe says, prepare a 30 second summary speech and practice it. (That old “elevator speech” thing.)

    6. Antilles*

      The best advice I can give you is that most job fairs are 98% “do they like you” and “can you make a good personal connection”. Some companies actually do formal, detailed resume reviews and interview scheduling on the spot, but that’s fairly uncommon. Instead, most employers will take your resume and quick-skim it (to make sure you’re somewhere in the ballpark), but they’ll really focus on chatting with prospective employees much more than any sort of formal review…and then when they get back to the office, they have dozens (hundreds?) of resumes to sort through. So your goal here is to be remembered as the likable professional you are.
      One specific tip that I like to use is to write down something I discussed with each company so the follow-up can be something more than a generic “good to meet you John, would love to talk more about Mega Corp”. If you can reference something in particular you discussed, this (a) makes you seem interested and (b) brings you back to the front of their mind.

    7. Pineapple Incident*

      A friend of mine is a 3rd year teacher starting this fall as a 5th grade teacher- he got his job in February at one of these job fairs. He’d been talking to the principal of the school he was interested in prior to the event, but he was interviewed there and offered a job on the spot. I’m not sure how your system’s fair is set up (whether there are interview slots or not) but I’d definitely come prepared to talk about yourself, dress as if you were showing up for an interview, and definitely bring resumes.

      Good luck! I hope it works out for you!

    8. Betty Darling*

      The school district where I live has these once a year, and they do a fair amount of interviewing and hiring on the spot, as well as resume collecting for future interviews. I would be prepared for an interview, bring copies of your resume, and think about a few high-quality, succinct ways to indicate your skills and qualities as an employee. Good luck!

    9. blackcat*

      I have done the teacher cattle call job fair thing before. Here’s my advice.

      1) Yes, print resumes, also photo copies college transcripts and your teaching credential. Paperclip it all together in packets, with your resume on top. A post-it with “[Name], [subject/grade level]” on it isn’t a bad idea and it’s easy for them to rip off if they don’t want it.

      2) Yes, be prepared for an on the spot interview, though it is unlikely.

      3) Wear a suit.

      4) Wear sensible, comfy shoes. You will be standing a lot.

      5) Bring a snack & water. You don’t want to be thirsty or hangry doing an on the spot interview.

      1. Nallomy*

        I second all of this advice, having been to a couple of teaching job fairs in the past few years.

    10. New Bee*

      Do you have a credential, or would you be doing a program? If you know what grades/subjects you’ll be eligible to teach, check the district website for a list of schools so you can aim to hit those tables. Speaking from experience in an urban district, there may be mini-interviews where they ask you about prior experiences working in urban settings, your philosophy about teaching and learning (in general), etc. You probably won’t spend more than 5-10 minutes at a table, depending on the crowd.

      A job fair was where I got my first teaching job–good luck and let us know how it goes!

    11. Debbie Downer*

      My two big pet peeves with job fairs are:

      1. When you go to all the trouble of dressing up and bringing resumes and then there a couple of people sitting at a table and they refer you to their company website and won’t even take a copy of your resume and they really don’t even know anything about current openings at their own company and couldn’t even provide you with any worthwhile job information. I don’t know why they even bother showing up at a job fair.

      2. When you go to a job fair and instead find booths or tables manned by colleges or other job-training institutions. I find this offensive, inappropriate and kind of like deceptive. If I want to get more education I certain wouldn’t be looking for it at a job fair.

      I’ve just about given up all hope of finding anything worthwhile at a job fair.

    12. School Admin*

      Yes. I hire for a school system and occasionally attend these job hiring events. Definitely bring copies of your resume. In my area there will be 20 schools at the event. You may have access to information about what schools are hiring for your position.

      Dress formally (suit) and neatly. I will occasionally have a brief interview with a candidate, but it depends upon the set up of the event, how many positions I’m hiring for, whether I have a coworker with me and how rare qualified candidates are for the specific position.

    13. ms42*

      Thank you SO MUCH, everyone! This information was enormously helpful, and I feel much more optimistic about the possibility of changing careers. Most of the principals to whom I spoke said they weren’t doing teacher interviews at the fair so they could have a team do the interview (thereby increasing the likelihood of a good fit), and one went as far as to check into my availability to be interviewed. AAM and the commenters here have been a great help.

      (In a moment of sheer WOW, I ran into a teacher who remembered me. From 1992.)

  5. Helen*

    I just want to send Alison some love. Thanks for all the work you put into Ask A Manager (the work on the bird phobia update yesterday as an example).

    2. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      I second this! You have so many readers and people who comment it must be hard to monitor!

    4. SophieChotek*

      Yes thank you! I’ve learned so much from your letters and insight, as well as the collective wisdom, experience, and insights of the commenters here.

    5. dear liza dear liza*

      Moderating all those comments must’ve been so time-consuming (and probably a bit soul sucking, when handling negative comments). You are greatly appreciated, Alison.

    6. Parenthetically*

      Happy to join the love-fest. Alison, you are SO appreciated. This is easily the best advice site on the internet, and one of the best comments sections I’ve ever participated in (RIP The Toast — I’m sure there are other refugee Toasties about the place).

      1. Lily Rowan*

        Agreed! (Although I was always more of an old-school Hairpin loyalist than a true Toastie.)

    7. Ask a Manager* Post author

      It’s been a dreadful week, so this is much appreciated! I have two more weeks of horror, and then I’m going to take such a long nap at the end of it.

        1. Bibliovore*

          Wishing you calm moments and serenity as you face two more weeks of horror. Its been quite a bear lately. Helpful to me. I can do anything for twelve hours that would appall me if I had to do it for a lifetime. And then start again the next day.

      2. Susie*

        I hope you get to rest and relax soon. Know how much we appreciate you. Without your advice and this site I would not be where I am now.

        1. Windchime*

          Me, either. I used all the good advice I’ve gotten from here over the years plus Alison’s book to find myself a new job in a matter of a couple of months. I’m very, very grateful.

      5. MillersSpring*

        I used your advice about workplace giving to comment today on an FB post by NBC News. Apparently the Tate Modern leadership asked its employees to donate to a fund to give a small boat to their retiring director.

      7. Sarah*

        This is my first comment on your site, but I thought I’d tell you how much I love your book. I checked it out from the library, and then bought it, so I can highlight sections. I am confident that your tips on interviewing are a big part of why our last hire is turning out so well

    9. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

      Absolutely appreciated! Thank you so much, Alison, for making this place as amazing as it is!

    10. Athena X*

      I have learned so much for this site as I re-entered the workforce after being a SAHM. Thank you, Allison, for all you do to create this excellent resource.

      1. Anon for Today*

        Mostly commenting here, because, username! Tamora Pierce! Tortall! Beloved books and characters.

        1. Keladry of Mindelan*

          Thank you! It’s my most beloved series. Always happy to find another fan <3

    12. Observer*

      Yes. For all the issues, this is still one of my favorite places to visit. That’s a huge credit to Alison.

    13. Jane Gloriana Villanueva*

      Hear, hear! Thank you, Alison. You’ll never know just how much you’ve helped me. The comments on the site lately have been astronomical, and I can’t imagine you’re not pulling 20-hour days to manage it. Best wishes.

    14. Birdbrain*

      I was going to come out of lurkdom to say just this, but you beat me to it! I have learned so much from this site (both the original AAM answers and the comments) and really appreciate it. I know there have been frustrations with the comments lately, but even with that AAM seems to be one of the most civilized places on the Internet. I expect that’s largely due to Alison’s dedication!

    15. Spelliste*

      Yes!! This site not only makes my work life saner, it improves the lives of everyone around me who gets secondhand AAM advice. :)

    16. Tedious Cat*

      Yes, thank you! This site is a treasure and I can only imagine how much work it takes to keep it that way.

    17. Office Mercenary*

      YES. This site isn’t just a learning resource; it’s a community. Alison’s excellent advice and incredible work managing the comments section keep it going! I really, really appreciate your dedication to civility and dialogue. The past few weeks must have been exhausting on so many levels, and I’m sorry for that, but thank you for everything you do!

    18. the other Emily*

      Yes! Ask A Manager has helped me so much in my working life. I can’t even put into words how much so. Thanks for everything you do Alison :)

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Jaydee! I keep meaning to tell you: For some reason all your comments the past few weeks are ending up in my comment spam folder. I keep releasing them and trying to whitelist you and I haven’t figured out yet what’s happening. I’m aware of it and working on it though!

    20. Antilles*

      Cheers. I have friends who are looking for new jobs or who’ve had work issues and I point them all here because the advice is *significantly* better and more practical than most other sources.

    21. I'm Not Phyllis*

      YES! This is easily one of the most useful websites on the innerwebs and I so appreciate everything that Alison does, and everything the community brings to it.

    22. N.J.*

      Alison and thus sure are amazing. Just wanted to chime in, as it is so rare to find this level of courtesy and engagement, even on some of the rougher posts.

    23. Jules the First*

      Oh yes, Alison – you changed my life and my team’s lives (along with your awesome commentariat). Having never had a manger, I had no idea how to be one (let alone a good one); you’ve taught me everything I know.

      Part of me wants to recommend this site to my current nightmare of a manager…except that then I’d have to stop venting about her here.

    24. Ramona Flowers*

      Yes! You helped me get my dream job while also teaching me there was no such thing :D

    26. LizB*

      + a million! AAM has been an invaluable source of advice for me as a new grad, a job seeker, an individual contributor, and now as a manager. Your personal advice and the culture in the comments section that you work so hard to moderate are so wonderful.

    27. Djuna*

      Yes! A thousand thank yous, Alison.
      I know the moderation lately must have been like a third job for you, so extra special thanks for that. And may your well-overdue and hard-earned nap be blissfull!

    28. New Window*

      Piling on for the well-deserved love fest! Alison, this website is amazing. It has kept me (and hundreds, thousands?) of people sane in difficult work and job search situations, is the single most educational work resource I’ve yet to see, and has one of the best commentariats I’ve seen in a very. very. long time–and we know that that’s because of the work you put into it. Thank you!

    29. Gov Mgr*

      Seriously. I parrot Alison verbatim sometimes, especially when faced with difficult managerial situations, and it has only worked out well each time. I sent relevant questions to the managers below me fairly regularly and this site is always my first go-to when I need a fresh perspective on a challenge.

    31. AnonAl*

      I just wanted to reply to this as well – I’ve been lurking on this site for a long time and it’s been so helpful! All the advice here helped me approach my boss about developing my role – and I’m now getting a promotion into a new position I’m helping to create, doing all the most interesting stuff in my current job plus a bit more :) Thanks so much for all the advice you give!

      1. Anna Held*

        I was desperate for a job, had one interview, and all the questions were….the ones in your interview booklet. The exact ones. The ones for which you had said to have prepared answers written out and rehearsed. I am now happily employed. You’re doing so much to make people’s lives better, you’re basically doing all the work of a non-profit singlehandedly. I mean that very seriously — there are lots of non-profits out there to help people get jobs or job skills, and you’re doing that at an international level.

  6. Tuckerman*

    Has anyone attended a fantastic workplace diversity/inclusion training? If so, what made it great?

    1. GalFriday*

      We had a great microagressions training here a few months ago. I think what made it great were a few different factors:
      – hiring a consultant who does this work full time
      – having people in the room who took it seriously and were self-reflective without being judgmental of others
      – a strong mix of individual reflection, group activities, and discussion (one of the group activities made us think about the assumptions we make about people based on a few descriptive factors)

    2. PB*

      I’ve been to good ones and bad ones. Some things that make good training:

      *If at all possible, have the training be lead by an actual diversity expert. This might involve bringing someone from outside the company, but it makes all the different. Nothing is worse than having a white person whitesplain racism, for example.
      * Make sure that people know why it’s important. Too many diversity efforts come across as “We’re doing this because we have to.” Tell people the goals you’re hoping to achieve.
      * Encourage attendance from everyone in the company. Part of me wants to say to make it mandatory, but that can backfire. On the other hand, with diversity training, there’s a common problem of having the same people attend every one, while everyone else stays at their desk. That core group that’s attending is often already involved and concerned. This leads to having a small group of very informed employees, and a much larger group of less informed employees. Whatever you can do to encourage a large attendance will be well worth it.
      * Leave lots of time for Q&A, but avoid role playing. Everyone hates role playing.

      2. Juli G.*

        I don’t know about your example. A diversity expert, yes. But diversity encompasses a lot and I don’t think that only an older, queer, disabled Muslim woman of color can speak about diversity.

        1. Juli G.*

          You know what? I don’t like how snarky my comment was. I guess my better point was that true diversity training is not just about race and that’s important to remember for a company training

          1. Been There, Done That*

            I didn’t read your comment as snarky so much as refreshingly straightforward (although it might have had a sharper edge than you meant). I’m fed up with one-sided “diversity training” with an undertone of “this one group is bad because they discriminate against everybody else.” Diversity reminds me of the set theory we learned in elementary school math–there are many many sets, and one individual can belong to more than one of them.

            1. BadMovieLover*

              I”m with you, and I say that as a person from a minority demographic. I think it’s fantastic that companies are taking inclusion and diversity seriously, but I would seriously question any effort that undermined any demographic as incapable of teaching or fully participating in such endeavor.

              At the same time, I sympathize with the uncomfortable feeling of being patronized by supposed “allies” who turn on you when your opinions as a minority person may differ from the overall narrative.

        2. TL -*

          I think she was trying to say, “don’t have a high ranking employee/rando from HR scramble around on the internet and give you their perspective on racism” which could often end up in whitesplaining/mansplaining/ect… Rather, hire someone who is an expert, regardless of how they fall on the diversity spectrum.

          I know my college had an able-bodied person come in and do a training where everyone picked a disability and the group took 10 minute walk across campus, thinking how “their” disability would affect this really short stroll. The facilitator pointed out a lot of issues we wouldn’t have noticed – cobblestones and mobility aids, for example – and asked how we would deal and then gave whatever the standard workaround was for a disabled person.
          She didn’t need to be disabled to do that well, but she did need to have an intimate understanding of what environmental factors could limit someone’s mobility.
          It was much more impactful than if someone had just talked about the fact that the campus is set up to be walked and the elevator in the chemistry building was unreliable, which I’m guessing is what a non-expert would have gone to.

      3. CM*

        The most effective training I ever attended focused on scenarios that were very true to life, detailed, and specific to my industry and work environment. Also, the scenarios were not black and white; there was a lot of disagreement in the room about how to handle them. For example, one of the scenarios involved a mid-level associate (this was at a large law firm) deciding when to announce her pregnancy, and the partner’s decision about whether to assign her to a big case. This hit home for many of us in the room, and it was helpful to be able to talk about it and bring it out into the open.

        I agree with the “no role-playing” advice. Not only does it put people on the spot and produce unpredictable results, but also, being able to objectively discuss fictional people allowed us to have a less defensive discussion.

        To PB’s point, this was a mandatory training; I doubt anybody would have attended if it was not mandatory. And as GalFriday said above, this was conducted by a professional consultant who came in from outside the company.

        1. Tuckerman*

          I think that allowing disagreement and choosing relevant scenarios is key. My issue with my experience of diversity training is being told there is a set way to handle things and there is no room for discussion or advocating for a different position.

          1. Office Mercenary*

            I once attended a training that wasn’t perfect (it was part of intake for new hires and included diversity and sexual harassment together, which are such broad topics I think they deserve their own discussions, but there were time constraints and I understand why they chose to combine them) but I really appreciated the theme that reasonable people acting in good faith can disagree about boundaries. There were examples that started with scenarios that were obviously inappropriate for the workplace, but then moved on to trickier things where it was easy to see different points of view.

            Example: Hanging a picture of a pinup model in a bikini in one’s cubicle is not okay. However, what about vacation photos? Let’s say Jane just got back from vacation, had a wonderful time, and wants to savor the memory by putting a photo of her and her family on the beach in her cube. They are all wearing swimsuits in the photo. She absolutely is not trying to make anyone uncomfortable, but someone else in the office might be uncomfortable seeing a photo of a coworker less than fully dressed. Or they might come from a culture where people don’t show that much skin in public and partial nudity more generally makes them uncomfortable. Our discussion concluded that it would be best for Jane to proactively avoid putting the photos somewhere they would be very visible, but she’s not a terrible person if it doesn’t occur to her. The other person should assume good faith and talk to her directly before escalating the situation.

            I also liked that that employers mainstreamed diversity into other trainings. This was in part because of our city’s demographics but because it ended up being relevant to a lot of other themes. For example, my department often provided food for the public on short notice, but we often didn’t know the dietary needs of the people we were serving until we got there. We had to have on call vendors and emergency rations for several different religious groups, and be ready in the event that a community has extra-strict rules (e.g. kosher vs glatt kosher). We tried to use neighborhood vendors whenever possible, partially to support the local economy but also to find culturally-appropriate and familiar foods. We’d sometimes get donations from local restaurants and had to navigate issues like impartiality by getting enough donations for everyone to share equally. For example, one emergency shelter had Korean, Hasidic, and West Indian clients. We provided kosher food, bought West Indian food from across the street, and a Korean restaurant offered to donate food for the Korean clients. We had to explain that we can’t offer Korean food only to the Korean clients without providing it to the other clients as well, so the restaurant generously provided enough for everyone, and there was a fun buffet with different cuisines that evening. I appreciate that they had come up with a policy beforehand, and it avoided issues that would have come from giving one group cold sandwiches while someone else gets hot bulgogi.

      4. Tuckerman*

        Agree with your last point! I’ve been in trainings where role playing or partner exercises almost seem like they’re being used purely to make us uncomfortable. We had an exercise where we had to be rude/indifferent to a partner (the partner didn’t know we had been instructed to be rude). So many people got uncomfortable, and some refused to do it.
        To your first point, do you think being white precludes someone from being a diversity and inclusion expert? Or were you just making a point about how some white diversity and inclusion instructors are not competent and that does more harm?

        1. PB*

          My first point was poorly expressed. I advocate having training sessions led by experts, regardless of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or other status. Being white does not preclude a person from being a diversity or inclusion expert. One of the best training sessions I’ve attended was on racial diversity, and was led by a team of instructors: two white, and two people of color.

          On the flip side, I have seen non-experts spend 10 minutes Googling and try to offer a session on diversity. That does more harm than good, regardless of intent. I may have been projecting, since I’ve only seen white diversity and inclusion instructors do this.

      5. Ramona Flowers*

        Ours is mandatory. Which is helpful if and only if it’s part of a bigger picture. So at my employer there’s a criteria relating to diversity written into everyone’s job description, along the lines of how we try to make our workplace and services as welcoming and accessible as we can and staff are expected to contribute to this aim.

        Our job adverts are also pretty good – we don’t ask for anything unnecessary e.g. no asking for a degree if it’s enough for someone to show they have certain skills, it’s made clear that you can use examples from inside and outside work in your application as transferable skills are taken into account, we advertise in an interesting range of places e.g. community centres, not just online job boards, and so on and so on.

    3. Alice*

      One recently was pretty good (despite a bad start when the trainer got the day wrong and didn’t show up) — it approached the material from many perspectives and different modalities (small group discussions, audio-visual, reading, lecture, for different segments). It also helped that it was opt-in, so in all the discussions and other interactions, you knew that other participants were genuinely interested in learning and growing on the topic.

      I’m dreading an upcoming one because of the heavy-handedness with which it’s being rolled out. People in my department don’t think that lack of respect is a problem in our workplace (I know from public surveys, not just my personal opinion), so messaging about “learning how to handle disrespectful behavior” makes me think, “Hey, why do I have to spend 2.5 hours on this?” But it wouldn’t get my back up if the message were “learning additional ways to demonstrate respect.” I guess it’s the difference between assuming that people are unprofessional and need remedial help and assuming that people are professional but can still benefit from new perspectives.

    4. Anna*

      Great question! I have a related one. For those fantastic trainings, how did you find the person to do it? I’m looking at planning a gathering for people in our field and this would be the subject of the training (with a bent toward culture sensitivity and awareness in education) and I have no idea where to start.

    5. Jillociraptor*

      Following this with interest. Thanks for the question.

      I would argue that a training is only as useful as the company values that precipitated it AND the commitments made following it to continue to emphasize the responsibility of everyone in the company to hold themselves accountable for learning and growing in their commitment to diversity. People in the majority or who benefit from systems of oppression don’t have to spend a lot of time thinking about the systems that advantage them and disadvantage others, so while one training, even if really good, can plant a good seed, I don’t think it can fully set someone up to go down a different path.

      1. Beckie*

        I agree with this completely. My organization had a diversity/inclusion “training” session about a year ago, run by an external consultant who is experienced in providing this sort of training to our industry. But I think one of the reasons that people really opened up during it is that our organization does value diversity, and has demonstrated a commitment to diversity at all staff levels, including senior management. If you’re not starting from a hostile baseline it’s easier to move forward.

    6. Darth Brooks*

      We had a good one that involved training on generational differences. Identifying stereotypes and how to avoid bias.

    7. Bess*

      I work with tech, so I’m thinking less about group trainings and more about doing things like asking people go to without using a mouse for a day (using only a keyboard), or blocking their screen and learning how to navigate the computer with a screen reader. For the majority of internet and tools it’s awful. Helps people “get” why we really do need to make sure captions are on everything, etc.

    8. Charlotte Collins*

      Not exactly, but I’ve started working for a state government, and they do training on Trauma-Informed Care. It really opens your eyes to why people might behave certain ways. (Since members of different groups are more likely to have had adverse experiences – or experienced trauma – I think it counts as diversity.) It really shows how things that seem little can affect people for longer than you’d think. And the training included language for addressing behaviors that could be related to trauma.

    9. A. Schuyler*

      I’ve attended diversity and inclusion training for LGBTI and cultural diversity, and really enjoyed both. I think some of things we do well are:
      – The sessions are run by staff volunteers who are part of the communities in question, and they come from all over the organisation. One of the guys in my team even facilitated a session during his first six months as a new grad.
      – The focus isn’t “you’re all insensitive jerks, stop calling people mean names” but more “this is what people face, here are some facts you might not know, maybe try making less assumptions about people”. It makes it a really nice and respectful experience.
      – It’s a huge initiative for the organisation. Lots of senior leadership teams have gone through the training and it’s seen as a part of basic training (in our area, at least).
      – It’s not just training. There are volunteer employee groups for the LGBTI community, cultural diversity, age diversity and disability as well as lots of women’s groups. All of the groups hold regular events with pretty high-profile speakers (internal and external) and they’re all well respected within the organisation.

    10. Ramona Flowers*

      I went on one I thought would be cringey and awful but it really wasn’t. It helped that we had a proper expert do it as others have mentioned, and he told us there were no stupid questions and it was okay to ask absolutely anything at all. The most helpful part for me was explaining the difference between positive action and positive discrimination, and how you actually go about positive action.

  7. Zee*

    How far in advance in the job interview process should you disclose start date limitations? Due to the nature of my graduate program and assistantship, I could only start a new job after the end of a semester. Should I wait until I get an offer to negotiate start date? Or should I tell them upfront, maybe during the phone screen, that I won’t be able to start until August 1st (or whatever the date is)?

      1. Kindling*

        Because it might make them not consider your application because they’re thinking they want someone to start in May. So they discount you. Then the hiring process ends up getting delayed and drawn out and by the time they’re actually really to hire someone, it’s suddenly July, and actually, they could have considered you, but by then you’re already long forgotten.

        I say this as someone who probably would just put it in the cover letter to save everyone some time if it isn’t going to work, but I understand the hesitance to do it. I think phone screen isn’t a bad idea.

    2. Trout 'Waver*

      It really depends on your industry norms. Generally though, the higher up and more education you have, the further out you look for jobs. Absent a posted start date or an industry convention, you should assume that they’re looking to hire within a month. The phone screen is a good time to bring it up if you make it to that stage.

      1. Zee*

        Thanks! If it’s of any relevance, I am a PhD student and the industry is a staff role in higher education. These jobs prefer candidates with Master’s degrees (which I have) and a certain skillset (which I mostly have).

        1. dear liza dear liza*

          Are you talking about the spring semester? Like, mid-May? I guarantee no one in higher ed would expect you to start before the end of this semester. (And it will be a minor miracle if they finish interviewing by then.)

          1. Zee*

            Agreed! But I am talking about the summer semester, which ends in July. If that doesn’t work out, then I would have to wait until the end of the fall semester.

        2. TL -*

          In higher education, it’s not a big deal (especially if you’re still in school and that’s apparent on your resume.)

          Also agreeing, it’s a minor miracle if they get it done before the end of the semester.

    3. SaviourSelf*

      When I’m interviewing people, I will often ask when they would be available to start if they were offered a position. This would be when I would expect you to tell me of your restrictions. Depending on the position, it may or may not matter. For positions where I’m hiring someone straight out of school, I would not be surprised with an answer about starting after the end of the semester and the semester ending around DATE X

      1. Zee*

        Thanks for the insight! Yes, I would definitely disclose if asked about it at any point. If it’s relevant, I won’t quite be hired “straight out of school” because I would continue my program part-time. I have that flexibility as a PhD student who is done with courses.

    4. LadyKelvin*

      I wouldn’t worry too much about it since you are presumably telling your potential employers that you are currently a grad student, so they won’t expect you to start right away. I interviewed for the job I have now in September but they couldn’t make me an offer until I had officially finished my PhD, so in December I got the offer and February I started working. (The delay between the offer and the start date was because I had to move from east coast to HI, not exactly something I could pull off in a few days, even then my stuff and husband didn’t come till several months later.)

    5. MT*

      Personally, I’ve started my cover letter with something along the lines of “… upon the completion of my graduate program this August.” I’ve still successfully landed interviews, and the subject of my timeline was already on the table, so we all started on the same page.

  8. Anxious newbie*

    I start a new job in a few weeks and I am a giant bundle of nerves right now. I feel excited and anxious and hopeful and nervous and so much more. Does anyone else get new job jitters?

    There are a few things that genuinely make me nervous (leaving a really bad job right now and nervous that this one will be just as bad, moving into a new field and anxious it will be a bad choice) but I feel like I get all these crazy feelings right before a new job (or a new internship or class even). Does anyone else feel that way and how do you combat it?

    2. Amadeo*

      All. The. Time. Even if I’m leaving a horrible place and it’ll be a relief to be gone I’m always on the verge of terrified when making a job transition.

      I don’t know that I’ve ever combated it very well to be honest. I just kind of sheepishly muddle along until I’ve gotten to know my new supervisor and coworkers and the work flow. It usually lasts a week or so, but I got such a huge raise in switching jobs last year that I also suffered a serious case of impostor syndrome too, I was not just nervous about the change, I was also nervous that I’d sit down to work and they’d discover I knew nothing, Jon Snow, and fire me immediately. Fortunately I caught on just as fast here as I tend to do everywhere else and things are going well now, but I totally get where you’re coming from!

    3. Parenthetically*

      Yes! I’m just finishing up my 9th year teaching and I still even get new school year jitters! I basically cope by making to-do lists and goal lists and lists of my lists (only a mild exaggeration) to get my entire brain down on paper. But it’s SO normal!

    4. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

      Yes. Definitely been there. Just remind yourself that They chose you out of other candidates. Don’t compare NewJob to OldJob. You are starting on a clean slate. Give yourself time to learn the particulars of your new job and to learn about your new co-workers. For me, after the first two weeks, the nervousness subsides. You’ll be fine and CONGRATS on your new job.

      1. KR*

        This, and I like to remind myself that they’re not expecting me to learn everything right away. I’ll just take it one day at a time and do the work as they put it in front of me. I just started a new job, so I can commiserate.

      2. Windchime*

        Yes….they WANT you. They want it to work out. Be patient with yourself and give yourself a little time to adjust to your new routine and new coworkers. I started a new job 6 months ago and yes, it felt strange at first but everyone has been exceedingly friendly and now I’m settled into a new routine with new work friends and a kick-ass boss. You will do great!

    5. Bossy Magoo*

      Whenever I’m anxious/nervous about something I disassociate myself from the situation (I’ve been told that serial killers do this to reconcile their terrible actions with themselves, but I promise I only use it for good). I just remove myself from the situation and observe it as an outsider, like I’m watching a TV show or a movie. Sometimes I force myself to think to myself, “This is a compelling episode! I wonder what’s going to happen!” just to drive the point home. I’ve used this before interviews, before races, when I have to enter a social situation where I don’t know anyone, before presentations, before getting on a scary roller coaster…it sounds silly but it’s been an extremely successful coping strategy for me.

      1. Cedrus Libani*

        I do that too. If something is freaking me out, I will straight-up LARP as a calm, confident professional. This isn’t an interview, it’s an improv scene – here’s my character, who is awesome and has no impostor syndrome whatsoever. It sounds pants-on-head crazy, but it works.

      2. Ramona Flowers*

        I sometimes have an internal voice over which helps in the same kind of way. I feel slightly less mad now…

  9. Tempest*

    Anyone have any tips to stay sane while you work your notice but are at bec stage with the place and your immediate colleague?

    Also, they sent a survey type exit review and I was honest about why I’m leaving, IE that colleague is never at his desk and always on his phone (and doing things on the phone he shouldn’t be as he’s very shifty about hiding his screen.) Would you have been honest or just quietly escaped? I’m second guessing myself!

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      Presumably if the company was capable of responding well to feedback, you would have shared the issue and had it fixed before you got to BEC status. There’s not much upside to sharing and only potential downsides.

    2. MWKate*

      I think if you can be honest without sounding petty (which is what I always worry about when I’m at the BEC stage) and frame it as real workplace issues, you should. Whether or not they address it is up to them.

    3. PB*

      I had a similar experience with my last job. I was honest in my exit survey; I didn’t name my colleague directly, but the people reading it were going to know it was her.

      As for staying sane, just keep reminding yourself that in X days, you’ll never have to see this person again. You’re going to your fabulous new job, and they’re going to be stuck there. My former colleagues were awful to me during my (6 week!) notice period. This strategy worked beautifully.

      1. Tempest*

        I only have the one, so yeah, no doubts. It asked how they lost me so I told them honestly. Colleague is never there/always on cell phone, they takes pictures of their screen and snap chat them out of the business with some redacted details and the fact I’m pretty sure they’ve taken my picture/is often talking about me due to how they fidget and hide their screen which has made me very uncomfortable over the last several months. I mean, I told boss all this stuff and boss chose not to tackle it. It’s not news to boss at least.

        I guess I just reflected on what the customers are losing now that I’m going and it’s the person who knows them, cares about the job and goes above and beyond. They lost me because boss wouldn’t manage a slacker. I guess they could have an ongoing issue filling the chair if colleague is the same going forward.

        I shall keep reminding myself not long now until I never have to see colleague again. I get a nice week off in between jobs – new job is going to require some heavy duty travel for the first few weeks so I want to get my house sorted out – and what happens here after I go won’t be my problem.

    4. Paxton*

      Have you mentioned it before your exit interview? My past 2 employers were shocked by my reasons for leaving (both various forms of workplace bullying) and told me that I should have said something sooner. I pointed out that I had multiple times and their offer to fix it now couldn’t be trusted just to keep me around.

    5. MicroManagered*

      I recently left a job with a totally toxic, insane micromanager and I’d been BEC with her for like a year. I started writing out letters to AAM during my notice period. The first one was a real one I was going to send in, but I found that, by the time I was done writing it out, I had answered my own question. So I started doing it more often. Something about just putting my boss’s actions into words was itself therapeutic, but also targeting my thoughts toward a specific person/community, whose advice I value and whose thinking I’m familiar with enough to anticipate, was very very helpful during my notice period!! Try it!

      1. Thlayli*

        I often find that writing down an issue and/or thinking about how I would give advice to someone else with the same problem helps me see the obvious solution.

        Sometimes my own advice turns out not to be the best advice tho lol. So getting a second opinion is valuable to.

      2. Tempest*

        The hard part of it all for me is I LOVE my manager. I think my manager is one of the nicest people I’ve ever met and on a personal level we’re good. But my manager freely admits that managing people is not a strong suit. Manager is conflict avoidant (me too but I just force myself to tackle things because they need to be done and I refuse to allow a low bar to be set), doesn’t like hard conversations, and is really poor at just setting high standards and holding people to them because sometimes that means hard conversations.

        Manager kind of lucked out with me as my anxiety makes me really detail driven with really high standards, ultimately to avoid making a mistake and triggering my anxiety, but I guess at least I channel it to a useful area? I don’t need her to hold me to high standards because my own are so impossibly high, I need to be held down a bit and reminded not everyone sees the need for a bar that high because my bar is unreasonable, thank you anxiety.

        I think I just need to keep saying only three weeks to go, and then two and then one to myself to remind me that I’ve taken initiative and found a new role. It was a hard old slog and it was hard to get the courage to push out of this comfort zone. Yes, I’m not happy here, but I am comfortable. I know everyone here, I know the customers and the commute and it’s all easy. I will admit I’m petty enough to occasionally rub it in to everyone that my new job pays better, has better hours, better benefits and is a better commute for me, giving me back even more time. I shall just try to take comfort from the fact good things are coming to she who waited :)

    6. Been There, Done That*

      An attorney once advised me not to fill out exit interviews/questionnaires because they can come back to bite you. I haven’t done one since.

      1. Tempest*

        I’m in the UK and have a union behind me, though I’m not in a unionized role, I’ve kept paying my dues from a previous role. Legal action doesn’t scare me and as long as I get a good reference out of current manager now, I hope to not need to move on again anytime in the near future.

  10. Networking Woes*

    Riddle me this, AAM community, about getting jobs through personal connections. In all my job searching, I was told numerous times that it’s more often who you know that trumps and gives you an edge into a job. Well now it’s happened and I have very mixed feelings about it.

    Next week I start a job where a connection of mine had a connection inside the company. My connection talked to their connection and helped me get in for an interview. After typical background checks and follow up questions, I was offered a job and I accepted. I know full well my connection’s connection likely tipped the scales in my favor. As a long time reader of AAM, I have read the stories of nepotism that have crippled the workplace (in fact, I’m leaving a job full of it, with lots of people skating by because they’re BFFs with the boss). I don’t plan to do that at all; I want to work hard, prove myself, and advance on my own. So why do I feel like this is a failure?

    I searched for a new job for a long time with no bites. I know the odds are against me, as I’m in a field with lots of people searching for the same things as me and I have little experience to my name. I know it’s an uphill battle that all are facing and any advantage in your favor is good. But I still feel bad that I didn’t get this job entirely on my own. And I fear being hated by my new coworkers for it, that I’ll be viewed as someone who got through simply because of their connections. My connection doesn’t see it as a problem. He told me he’s done the same thing dozens of times for friends and relatives, hired a connection’s connection to help them out. He said this kind of networking is very common. But I’m still uncertain. I’m so anxious that I’m comforting myself with contingency plans if I need to leave new job in a hurry. It’s not the mindset I want to have going into this new job but I can’t deny its there. I fear the other kind of stories I’ve read on AAM; of people working their buns off but their connections make them hated by coworkers, that it will happen to me and I’ll have to leave.

    TL:DR – Why is networking/connections considered a common practice but causes the new hires to be looked down on? And should I be feeling bad that I didn’t get the job on my own?

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      Connections are a two-way street. The employer benefits from having an already vetted candidate as much as the candidate benefits from getting fast-tracked.

      When done well, connections only matter to getting your foot in the door. You then either succeed or fail on your own merit. When done poorly, you get the horror stories.

      Also, don’t feel bad. Most jobs are filled through connections.

      2. Erin*

        So true they may help get you an interview. But the connection alone won’t get you a job.

    2. MWKate*

      Are you qualified for the job? When I’ve run into issues of people being disliked for nepotism it’s because they were in jobs they were not qualified for, couldn’t do well, etc. Also, finding a job through someone you know is very different than getting hired by your dad/aunt/godmother/etc for a position you don’t have the background for.

      It sounds like you have every intention of being a conscientious and hard working employee. I would not worry too much about this.

      1. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

        This. You weren’t hired sight unseen just on a connection’s say-so. You were interviewed and went through what I’m guessing is the normal hiring process.
        Your connection helped bring your resume to the hiring manager’s attention when it might have been lost in a flood of applications. Totally normal, and a good thing. I promise nobody will think less of you for this.

        Also, keep in mind that many companies will pay a referral bonus to current employees who recommend new employees.

      2. CatCat*

        I totally agree with you. If you’re qualified for the job then what happened here is totally normal. I think any reasonable colleague wouldn’t look down on you because someone put in a good word.

    3. Robin B*

      No matter how you get the job, you are the one who has to do it once you start. Nothing wrong with getting a bit of help to get your foot in the door…. just do a good job… that’s all on you.

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      My team recently hired someone who got an interview through nepotism. She came across very well in the interview, and we wouldn’t have hired her if we didn’t think she was capable of excelling in the role and excited about the role. (Turns out she put on a pretty good performance at the interview because she’s not been a very good hire. It’s not the nepotism that bothers me; it’s that this person clearly doesn’t care about her job or doing well.)

      Your connection might have gotten your foot in the door, but your skills and experience got you the job. So long as you work hard and plan to do your very best in the role, your professional reputation will outweigh any feelings about nepotism your coworkers may have.

      1. Lilo*

        Alternately, I had a friend interview at my job, he bombed did not get the job. A foot in the door should be just that and as long as there is not a toxic culture, I think you are fine.

    5. Someone*

      There are different levels of connections. There are connections that get your resume a closer look, or maybe get it past the recruiter and into the hiring manager’s hands, but after that, you are judged pretty objectively on your own merits. For that type of connection, when you get there, your connection no longer has any effect or pull, it’s sink or swim, just like any other job. No one hates people with those connections (or rarely anyway). The attitude is it’s mutually beneficial — you get a job and they get someone who’s pre-vetted.

      Then there’s people in come in with close ties to people with a lot of power in the company. It’s worse if they are hired above their level, or are perceived to have short-circuited the interview process. The problem there is those people are perceived as “protected” by the higher ups, and the assumption is they will be given more opportunities than their coworkers, and not held accountable for their mistakes. People resent that (even if it turns out to be false.)

      It’s sounds like you’re in the first bucket, so don’t worry.

    6. S.*

      There is a big difference between networking and nepotism.
      Using your network to get a job works because you are more of a known quantity – someone they trust can vouch for the quality of your work. You still had to go through interviews and convince them of your qualifications, the networking connection was just a little boost. Your connection just increased their confidence that you will benefit the company.
      In contrast, nepotism is when someone gets a job despite not being qualified enough (or at all), through a non-professional contact whose interest in hiring them has more to do with the benefit to the person being hired than to the company.

      1. fposte*

        Yes. And technically nepotism is about family members–“anti-nepotism” policies are about relatives, and the etymology of “nepotism” is related to “nephew.” I hadn’t even realized people were using the term about non-family hiring.

        1. Triangle Pose*

          Agreed. I think the appropriate term is probably”cronyism” if you just hire personal friends. I think people use nepotism to mean both without knowing that nepotism is about family.

    7. ruff orpington*

      I got my current job through a similar form of networking. I felt bad about it at first, being frustrated that I wasn’t selected solely through my own merits. But… my contact reached out and helped me get the job because he knew I was reliable, smart, and capable, which ~are~ my own merits. I was qualified for the job, and did well, and we both benefited: me, by getting a great job, and him, by having a good coworker and helping out the company. Now that I’ve been here for a while, I’ve seen so many people that got their jobs through similar ways. We do work that is slightly unusual– there are a lot of people out there who have tangential experience, but will have to shift over and learn a new style. Having just one extra connection to know that the candidate is able to make that transition (being a ‘known’ quantity) is so beneficial.

      If you work hard and do a good job, you’ll have no problems. No one should begrudge someone a pre-existing connection. The situations where there is resentment is when this leads to someone getting the job without being qualified, or when the pre-existing connection leads to favoritism or cliques

    8. LKW*

      You did get the job on your own. You got an interview through your connections. There is no shame in that. Talent brings talent – anytime someone really talented leaves my organization, we know that in the next couple of years they’re going to poach a few people. It can be a little frustrating, but people leave to go to clients so we’re likely going to work with them again so it helps to keep the parting and poaching amicable unless egregious.

      It’s frustrating when the person hired is incompetent, abuses the relationship (barely makes it into work or doesn’t actually work) or gets special treatment (two sets of rules, one for everyone else and one for nepotism hire).

    9. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Maybe it’s just because the legal field is super into networking, but getting a job through a connection is really not looked down on at all, and is definitely not the same thing as nepotism. The concern with nepotism is that certain relationships are viewed (rightly or wrongly) as creating inherent bias – your love for that person may make it hard for you to evaluate their negative traits, and you may personally benefit from any money they make. This is not the case for a friend or professional acquaintance. It is in the best interest of the employee and the company to hire people who will do good work and get along with their coworkers. Absent a dysfunctional situation, this means that the opinion of an employee may be given a lot of weight. The only obligation you have here is to be a good employee, but you’d want to do that anyhow, right?

    10. Hellanon*

      I have gotten all my jobs beyond the first one or two through personal connections. Trust me when I say that your connections will not put you forward unless they’ve got some sense that you’ll do them proud – nobody wants to burn capital for someone they suspect can’t do the work. Done well, it’s a win all the way around. Just return the favor when you have the opportunity to do so, and give someone else the opportunity to be considered for a job they can do well at.

    11. Shark Whisperer*

      You shouldn’t feel bad! One of my part-time staff really needed a full time job and I recommended her for a position at OldJob. We have a tough industry and it can be hard to break into, especially hard getting a full time permanent job. I didn’t recommend her as a favor. I genuinely thought she did great work at would excel at this other position. I wrote to the hiring manager and just said why I thought Jane would be a good fit and to expect her resume and cover letter. My recommendation helped because hiring manager knew she could trust my opinion, but it wasn’t the only thing that got Jane the job. Her hard work, her resume, her kick-ass cover letter, and nailing the interview got her the job. I just provided a trusted reference at the beginning of the search instead of the end. No one hates Jane because “I got her the job,” they all love her because she’s awesome and she deserves it.

      You got yourself the job. Your connection just made sure the company really saw you. No one will look down on you for that.

    12. icecreamroll*

      You got the interview because of your connection.

      You got the job because of your qualifications.

      All your connection got you was a timeslot on the interview schedule.

      Not one of your coworkers will know, or care about how your interview was scheduled. They will judge you on your work and your personality – if you act guilty or undeserving you will undermine yourself.
      Look everyone in the eye, look pleased to meet people and keep your head up!

    13. Marisol*

      I am not aware of people looking down on new hires who have connections. This only bothers people in egregious cases, such as someone who is totally unqualified getting placed in a high-ranking position, who then goes on to do a bad job; i.e. a CEO’s twenty year old nephew is hired as a vice president and then makes disastrous strategic decisions while verbally abusing the staff. In that type of situation, you get resentment. In what you are describing, I would be very surprised to hear that anyone gave a flying fig about your connection.

      If you got a job based on a connection you had, then it is reasonable to say that you still got the job on your own merits, because you were the one who nurtured the connection. Maintaining business relationships is an important professional skill, and you did it. No one did that on your behalf. Moreover, if everyone leverages their contacts to their own advantage (and everyone does) then if you do it, you’re not taking an unfair advantage, you’re simply playing by the same rules as everyone else, which is perfectly fair.

      While I don’t know the particulars of your situation, I think it’s safe to say that your fear of “being hated” by your coworkers is…neurotic. Seriously, this is a misapprehension. You have imposter syndrome. When these worries come up, recognize them as neurotic fears, shift into your adult thinking and say, “hmmm, there’s that misapprehension I have, and I realize that it is wrong” and then think about something else. Don’t give this idea more power by ruminating on it or arguing with it. It is incorrect thinking. That is all.

    14. Antilles*

      Why is networking/connections considered a common practice but causes the new hires to be looked down on?
      Assuming you’re qualified for the job, people don’t really look down on new hires for this. In fact, to the extent people care how you got the job, it actually goes the opposite way – we expect more from new hires with a strong recommendation from an existing connection because we know he’s good and trust his judgment.

    15. Tedious Cat*

      So much good advice here. A connection, especially one that doesn’t work at the company that hired you, can only do so much — and don’t forget that your connection is also helping his connection there by facilitating a solid hire.

      I can empathize, because I know full well (because I applied last year) that I wouldn’t have gotten an interview at my new job without a good word from a friend. When I got the call for the interview, my immediate reaction was “Oh lord, I’m not qualified, this is only because of Friend” — and then I reminded myself that these people trusted his opinion for a reason, and he’s not going to risk that reputation on recommending someone who isn’t qualified. So I took confidence from that and went in and knocked that interview out of the park. Friend got me the interview, but I got myself the job.

      Think of it as matchmaking. Just because you met through a friend instead of Match.com doesn’t mean they like you any less. This is a situation where everyone benefits.

    16. imakethings*

      In some industries, networking is simply required to get your foot in the door. I ran into this issue last year after a move to a new state/city while simultaneously trying to break into a niche role. I failed because I simply knew no one. Now, after a year of boosting my resume and networking, my current job hunt is going much, much better. I’m still competing with the same types of people for these jobs, but at least recruiters are looking past my resume (and lack of experience) and into my portfolio and I’m landing interviews because of it. It’s sort of sad to think you wouldn’t have made it as far just on your own merit, but you just need to be grateful for what your connections have done for you and honestly proud of yourself for working a very challenging system (job acquisition).

    17. kms1025*

      Oh my gosh…do not feel bad :)
      Speaking as an employer, we prefer to hire people that come with a little extra cred. to their name.
      Doesn’t mean we don’t hire complete strangers, we do…but if someone is recommended as a friend of a friend, it just gives them a little bump up.
      If you get the job offer because of who you know, you still need to excel at it and prosper in it on your own merits.
      Congratulations!!!

    18. Tedious Cat*

      Oh, and congratulations — both on the new job and being someone people want to recommend!

      1. On Fire*

        Good advice all through here.

        I mentioned on another thread (regarding references) that I’ve gotten every job I ever had through networking and connections. The second part of that is that I always worked *very* hard to make sure they never regretted hiring me.

        In some fields, that is how hiring/interview decisions are made. You *have* to know someone. But when you land the job, just work to make sure you make them proud/content with that decision.

        Many of your co-workers may have gotten their jobs the same way (mine did!). Regardless, if you’re actually doing the job every day, rather than playing on Facebook/chatting on personal calls/otherwise displaying annoying habits or bad work ethics, you’ll be fine.

        Congrats and good luck!

    19. Falling Diphthong*

      You’re conflating two things–a personal connection that got an unknown’s foot in the door vs a personal connection that kept a known incompetent’s ass in a chair. How much people resent their coworkers for nepotism is almost wholly the latter.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This. Please let yourself up for air on this one, OP. You’re being pretty hard on yourself. Allow yourself to enjoy the fact that you got a job.
        People resent people who cannot do the job, it does not matter if they were recommended, or not. People want to work with others who have a good work ethic.

        You have really been overthinking this and I hope you do not allow it to cut into the joy of a new job or your ability to do the job. Your focus should be on organizing yourself for your new place. You ability to keep the job is because of your actual skills. Please focus on best foot forward and not on the stuff you have written here.

    20. Nic*

      I feel like your connection is correct. It’s often more who you know than what, and having a connection or connections’ connection is pretty common.

      I don’t think there’s anything wrong with getting your foot in the door because you know someone. The issue is, in my opinion, when you don’t move forward with the job the same way you would otherwise because you know someone.

      So long as you show that you understand the job and are a hard and competent worker the folks who questioned at first (if there were any) will back off.

  11. Katie ElderBerry*

    Almost everyone in my company was let go today, there’s only a couple of us left in finance and some execs. We were not paid today, they said probably next week, and no answer on payment for this week’s work. Also health insurance coverage expires Monday and Cobra will not be available. Damn it.

    2. Electric Hedgehog*

      Wow, that sucks. Your company is clearly circling the drain – I hope your job search is quick, easy and triumphant

    4. Jessesgirl72*

      They haven’t paid you, can’t say when they will pay you for this week, and still expect anyone at all to be working?

      And no Cobra?

      Umm, I know they are about to close their doors, but I’d still report them to the State Labor Board.

      And I chime in that I also hope you’ve been job searching.

      1. Lilo*

        Yeah at this point, Katie, no job may be better than one that takes your time and offers nothing in return. If they are never going to pay you and you get no benefits, what exactly are you getting for your labor. It may be hard to walk away but, frankly, you have to do what is best for you and leaving now may be it. The time you spend working may be better spent on literally anything else.

      2. Beachlover*

        That happens when a company goes BK, they do not have to offer cobra. Chances are they can’t meet payroll and that gets rolled into their bankruptcy too.

      3. Falling Diphthong*

        When my husband’s job was wobbling from week to week with the financing, they were blazingly clear that you could not ask people to work unless you were paying them. It can be hard to see in the forest of red flags, but the order in which management is doing this–not “pay everyone for work to date, then lay off everyone they can’t afford to keep” but “don’t pay anyone, lay off a bunch of people, express vague timeline about how if you cling on you will be paid later” is really bad. Suggests magical thinking in lieu of money–and no investor is putting in money at this stage.

        OP, I really think you need to consider walking out unless they hand you your wages to date right now.

        1. Falling Diphthong*

          Oh, and so sorry that this is happening to you. It’s scary and it sucks. But nothing in your description makes me think “well at least they have a viable plan to pay all the remaining people.”

          Instead it makes me think of the company for which I was freelancing who kept saying they would pay me “later” and then as soon as the project wrapped they went bankrupt. With all their employees owed hundreds of dollars in back pay–just like you, they’d been told how they would be paid ‘later’–and they just became very low ranking creditors with little hope of ever seeing that money.

    6. Lilo*

      Um… yeah. Lawyer/labor board now. The first priority should be paying people for work done, a company cannot take out financial troubles on employees. I am sure you are job searching, but if there is any way to up it at all, do so. Run.

      1. neverjaunty*

        This very much. Not paying employees is a very big deal no matter what state the company is in

        1. Jerry Vandesic*

          In my state the company directors are personally liable for any unpaid wages, as well as accrued vacation. The state labor department takes this very seriously.

          So seriously that one former employer, who was teetering on insolvency, paid out everyone’s vacation and wages, and then started paying wages every Friday (before that we were paid monthly). They did not want the company directors on the hook for any wages.

      1. Katie ElderBerry*

        My lease is up at the end of May so I have been applying all over the country for the last two weeks, had a few phone interviews but nothing serious yet.

    9. Parenthetically*

      Stopgap for health coverage while you talk to a lawyer/labor board: medical sharing plans. Liberty is one that accepts people of all or no religious beliefs, and it’s cheap.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        There is normally a law saying you need to be paid in X days, but if they have filed for bankruptcy…

        The no Cobra thing is what flags it as more illegal to me, unless they think that because they now are under X employees, they don’t have to offer it?

        1. Lilo*

          But to still have them working with no promise of pay ever? I would have to research the relevant jurisdiction and there may be facts we don’t have but it stinks to high heaven. A bankrupt company doesn’t mean they can just exploit free labor indefinitely.

          1. Jessesgirl72*

            They haven’t said they wouldn’t pay them, just left it ambiguous.

            And I’ve definitely known of companies that went bankrupt, and the employees still owed money had to get in line with the rest of the creditors. They were at the head of the line, but they still had to wait out the court proceedings. :P My dad got stuck in one of those.

        2. Jessie the First (or second)*

          Cobra isn’t required if there is not a medical plan for current employees – there has to be an active plan to enroll in. So a company that is this far behind is probably terminating all its medical plans – that’s why coverage ends on Monday, I assume – and so there does not have to be Cobra (and *can’t* be, because there is no plan).

          But the payment of wages – there are laws about that. In a company in such bad shape, though, it’s likely not recoverable. I’d leave.

        4. Grassmower*

          If there is no on-going plan for active employees, then there is no COBRA offered to terminating employees. It is the way the law works, unfortunately.

    12. LCL*

      Have you looked into unemployment? If you haven’t you should check.
      I hope you find another job soon.

      1. Joshua*

        This.

        Even if they didn’t lay you off I would consult with an attorney or your state labor board on constructive discharge. To me, not getting paid counts as working conditions that were so intolerable that you would be compelled to resign. I’d much rather be paid unemployment than not being paid anything and working to save a sinking ship.

    13. Lauren Who Reads A Lot*

      Call your state Department of Labor office. It is absolutely illegal for them not to pay you and to not know when they are going to.

    14. Belle*

      I also agree to file for unemployment right now and alert the State that you did not get paid (especially since some states have more rigid timing requirements).

      For health insurance, you would most likely be a qualifying event — so a partner or even the open market should be an option (though I know that can be expensive)

      Regarding Cobra:
      Their jobs will be terminated, which is a qualifying event, so they are eligible for 18 months of COBRA. B. No. If a company closes its doors, the health plan ceases to exist. If the health plan ceases to exist, no COBRA is available to the laid off workers.

    15. Confused Teapot Maker*

      I don’t think I have anything constructive to add but just wanted to say I’m really sorry to hear this!

    16. Been There, Done That*

      I’m so sorry to hear that. Best thoughts and wishes for a good next chapter.

  12. Sunflower*

    My boss gave her notice this week and I’ve gone into a bit of crisis mode as I’ve been lucky to not have this happen to me yet. So many things will change depending on who they hire and it will really affect how long I want to stay here and probably my future career path. Just a really rough week all around…

    I have a lot of mixed feelings that I haven’t had time to process yet because holy ish I’m going to be so busy. Our work flows in through my boss and I and we distribute down to our assistant(who I think is lazy but grandboss adores for some reason) and intern(who I have another post coming about bc she is struggling hard) I’ve already been working crazy hours for the past month and it’s only going to get worse until mid-June. Grandboss is overseas this week so we won’t get to talk until next week what this means. She’s pretty hands off and doesn’t really know how to do ‘events’. We have an overseas manager who will be able to minimally step in but I’m the only one left who really *knows* our events. Oh and there are oh so many things my boss has never taught me that…I guess I’ll have to learn in the next 3 weeks?

    What kinds of things should I be doing to make this as easy for me as I can? As I’m working, I’m writing down things I need her to teach me , items that need to be put into my name that she handles, things I need to talk to grandboss about….other stuff?

    1. Rosamond*

      I’m in a similar position – my boss is leaving soon and I’m going to end up taking on a lot of his role. The grandboss has been crystal clear that he’ll talk to me maybe once a month and expects I’ll rarely have anything to escalate to him. It’s not at all plausible for me to do 100% of boss’s job and 100% of my job, so we’re prioritizing what I’ll take on, what from both jobs gets delegated, and what from both jobs gets dropped.

    2. DevManager*

      See if you can get her to document as much as she can as well – usual processes for your events, things she only handles, anything that only comes up on a set schedule (once a quarter, once a year – you don’t want to get to September and find out there’s something she usually did that didn’t get done). Talk to IT about getting access to her emails or having incoming emails forwarded to you.

      Good luck. My second favorite boss ever quit while I was on maternity leave. We had eight months of uncertainty (and I did most of his duties during that time) and the dude they hired and I never quite clicked. I got out soon after he came on board. It’s worked out for the best, though – at the next job I met the guy who got me my current job which then evolved into a management job (which is what I wanted, but YMMV). (And then my favorite boss was pushed out almost a year ago – I’ve stayed and thrived, but I’m still weighing options.)

  13. Christy*

    When you have a massive project, how do you plan for it? How do you track all of the things that will need to be done and when they get done? More importantly, how do you figure out all of the things that will need to be done, particularly when it isn’t something you or your coworkers have done before?

    I’d appreciate any advice you have on this. I’m on this massive project (I’m not the PM but I’m ending up doing PM work anyway) and it’s scary because it’s new and hard, and I’d like to impose some more structure so we know how much work we have left.

    1. writelhd*

      spreadsheets, and there are even probably some good “project management” templates out there on the internet. Also perhaps freeware, try out something called Project Pier. I have found with this kind of thing it is super important and not overkill at all to stay massively structured and organized.

      1. Christy*

        I guess my question then sort of becomes, how do you figure out what goes into the spreadsheet? I’d welcome any resources you have. (And thanks for what you said so far–I’ll check them out.)

        1. Not a Real Giraffe*

          It sounds kinda silly but I sometimes Google “best practices + [type of project you’re working on]” and see what other people have already decided works well!

            1. ByLetters*

              I’ll third this one — plus, don’t feel like you are tied to the templates! I found a weekly checklist template at one of my jobs three jobs ago, and I have actually carried it with me to every posting since, adjusting the daily, weekly, and monthly tasks as the position requires. The nature of my work often changes, so my checklist is also constantly evolving as the needs demand.

              If your project can be broken down into specific timelines, sit down and do that. What needs to be done on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly basis? Are there repeated tasks, or is there some other way you can break up the work? What deadlines does it have? Once you’ve broken it down, find some way to simplify this into a checklist or chart that you can cross things off on — and keep it on your desk, pinned to your wall, or wherever you can see it every day and constantly refer to it. I find both deliberate planning in this way as well as having an easy reference helps me a lot with the really complex, long-range stuff.

          2. Paxton*

            I second this one. Also, if it is an event or a meeting – I will close my eyes and visualize walking through it. This helps me set in my head what ideally would happen to ensure that I am thinking through everything from the front door signage to the thank you presents for speakers.

        2. Witty Nickname*

          As a project manager, I put EVERYTHING onto my project spread sheet. I have 5 major deliverables? Every single step of every one of those goes onto my spread sheet (I used Smartsheet, which is a nice online version – it is easy to use, especially if you ever use Excel, and because it’s online, you can share it with your entire project team).

          Anyway, say one of my deliverables is sales training (that’s a real world example of something that would be included in one of my projects). I’d break it down in my spreadsheet like this (smartsheet allows you to nest items, so imagine each * as a nested level):
          Sales Training
          *Training content
          **Draft training content
          **Review with stakeholders
          **Review with Legal
          **Finalize content
          **Hand off to training team for module creation
          *Training Modules
          **Draft training modules
          **Review with product marketing lead
          **Review with stakeholders
          **Review with legal
          **Finalize modules
          **Assign modules to sales reps
          **Monitor completion

          When I’m planning something I’m not an expert in, or don’t really know everything that needs to happen, I like to use PMI’s program definition template. It’s a little hard to describe (I did a quick search online, but you might have more luck finding examples than I did), but works REALLY well in this type of situation (I introduced it to the teams I program and project manage for last year, and some of them have adopted it for their planning as well). I have modified it a bit to fit how my company works, but here’s what I do:

          Create a table in word (or excel or power point or whatever you are comfortable with). You’ll have 4-5 columns. Your rows will just depend on how much you end up with. In the far left column, you’ll put your project’s strategic objective (what is the big thing you are trying to achieve with this project). In the next column, you’ll have at least 2 rows. This column is your key deliverables that will help you meet your objective. Each deliverable will have at least 2 rows in the next column over (the rule of thumb is each column must have at least two rows branching off it in the column to the right of it). Here’s where you start to get more tactical – what are the things you need to do to meet those deliverables? Once you’ve gotten 2-3 columns of tactics, you should be able to identify your key project workstreams, and you can start to build out your full plan from there.

          One of the biggest things that helps with this framework is keeping in mind “how” and “why” – as you move to the right on the table, you are answering the question “how?” As you move back to the left, you are answering the question “why?”

          For example, let’s say the strategic objective is to increase chocolate teapot sales in the vanilla tea drinkers community. How are you going to do that? You decide a key deliverable is to execute a marketing campaign that shows how vanilla tea is better in chocolate teapots. How do you do that? You create a commercial that features people enjoying their vanilla tea in your company’s chocolate tea pots. And the further to the right side of the table you go, the more tactical you get. Now moving back to the left, you can check to make sure you are actually on the right track by asking “why?”

          Why do you create a commercial that features people enjoying their vanilla tea? To execute a marketing campaign that shows how vanilla tea is better in chocolate pots. Why do you want to execute that marketing campaign? To increase chocolate teapot sales in the vanilla tea drinkers’ community.

          1. Witty Nickname*

            Also, while I use project management software for the overall management of the project, I also find it really helpful to set up a kanban board for myself for the things I need to accomplish for my projects. I keep a running list on my board (I use small post it notes on my whiteboard and create a column for each project) – I also put a “To do on (day)” section on my board and move over the post its for the items I need to accomplish that day. When I’m managing multiple projects/programs at the same time, or when I’m working on a massive project, this really helps me keep on track.

    2. Kowalski! Options!*

      Talk to people who have been there before (to get advice, hints and tips), and identify your key stakeholders early. And get your key stakeholders to identify people who might also be affected by what’s going on. Keep the communication going with everyone. Not everyone needs to know about everything, but don’t rule someone out because you think they’re not important, or don’t have a dog in the race.

      1. Witty Nickname*

        I’d add identify which stakeholders need to approve which parts of the project (the plan, any deliverables, etc). You need to manage that, or you could easily end up with a case of too many cooks. Who are the decision makers? If you make a change to your plan, who needs to sign off on that (and make sure you identify any impacts that change has to other parts of the plan)?

        Keep a list of risks too – I don’t work with teams that are very data-oriented, so I keep the risk analysis simple for them. We talk about the risks, what is the likelihood that it will happen (high, medium, low), and what is the impact if it does happen (high, medium, low). This helps us identify what we should really spend our time on and what we might just wait and see on.

    3. Ann Furthermore*

      Yeah, I use Microsoft Projects (a very little bit), and also Excel. I’m sure you could use Google to find templates you like to use for project plans. Also, start a RIO log (Risks, Issues, Opportunities) to track those things, and also start an Action Item log that details what needs to happen and who it’s assigned to. When things like that start falling through the cracks, things can snowball very quickly.

    4. Parenthetically*

      Asana? I’ve used it to plan projects and it’s pretty intuitive. It might not be what you’re looking for, but there’s plenty out there that’s designed to help centralize communication on collaborative projects.

    5. LKW*

      Project plan with all tasks, effort, duration and OWNER. Who is responsible.
      Document every deliverable and the owner and those responsible for reviewing and approving. Make sure those are in your project plan.
      Document decisions and assumptions. Communicate these broadly.
      Make the information easily accessible. Don’t keep the project plan on one person’s PC – use collaborative software if possible but a network drive is fine too.
      Have weekly meetings in which people are accountable for reporting status and outlining if any delays will impact other parts of the project. Is one team held up because of another team’s delays?
      Understand the impact of delays – how will that affect resources later in the project – are those resources aware of the change and can they accommodate it?
      Talk to people who have done projects of this size in your organization. Get their insights and lessons learned – did one service provider (like infrastructure or finance or HR take longer to do their work than estimated? )

      2. Alice*

        The owner really is important. And lots of other comments have good advice. I’d only add that it’s ok if the project plan changes — maybe resources or goals change, maybe key people leave or arrive — it can be a living document. But it’s important to acknowledge, discuss, and agree on the changes.

    6. Purplesaurus*

      I use Podio but there’s other cloud-based project management tools, and I have found them helpful. You can check off tasks and use progress trackers for individual deliverables and/or on the overall project.

    7. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      If you have a final deadline for your project start to calendar it out working backwards to set smaller deadlines to keep you on track — i.e. big project deadline Dec 1.; then final approval must come no later than Nov. 15 to allow time for XYZ; then final project deliverable must be submitted for approval no later than Nov 1… all the way back to the beginning…first team meeting May 1. You may need to revise the calendar along the way and always pad in a bit more time than you actually think you’ll need. If you think it’ll take a day for the approval process, plan for three just in case the primary person goes out sick — that sort of stuff.

    8. justsomeone*

      To this part of your question: how do you figure out all of the things that will need to be done, particularly when it isn’t something you or your coworkers have done before?

      Work backward. What is the goal? What steps do you know come before the goal? Start by outlining the Big Stuff that needs to happen and then filling in the little things that need to be done to make it work.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I have never got my head around PRINCE2. I can’t work out what’s actual method and what’s just jargon.

        We use the =MC systems model.

    10. YouHaveBeenWarned*

      I tend to reply to AAM comments and browse Amazon until I notice the time, panic, and flail.

      Speaking of which: oh my god it’s already 12:30 and this paper is due at 5!

    11. Biff*

      I like to sit down, think it through, and break it up like this:

      1. What is my absolute goal. (E.g. Develop a new teapot line to market specifically to Sci-fi fans.)
      2. What about this goal will cause my team to stretch/develop new competencies (E.g. This will be our first attempt at novelty shapes such as a ferengi head.)
      3. What process or plan do I already have that is most similar to this new project? What is it missing?

      The next step is to very carefully define the new steps that have not been done before and introduce them to the most similar “tried-and-true” plan that exists. When I say carefully define, I mean in EXCRUCIATING detail. This level of detail isn’t necessary for processes you know well and can estimate easily, but anything new should be detailed, right down to the needed tools and raw materials (even if those tools are electronic and materials are living in someone’s head.) This will help you find out that “crap, we have no one on the team with skills remotely close to ABC” or “We need a highly-specialized thingamajiggy that takes 3 mos. to build and ship from Elbonia.”

      Good luck!

    12. Girasol*

      On finding out all the tasks: I found it handy to get the experts in a room, say, “So what do we do first? And then what?” Flow chart it on the board (powerpoint, whatever.) Inevitably someone says, “Then you do X” and there’s a “No, wait, X has to be done before Y, so put it over there!” And then there’s “Install the server” and “Wait, do we have a server? You gotta buy the server and allow six weeks for delivery” … “And then you gotta set it up, and then we can take the next step.” When you come to a spot where someone says, “but we won’t know if it turns out A way or B way until we get to that point, so how are we supposed to plan steps for a situation we don’t even know??” then call that fork in the road the “phase 1 completion,” and plan phase 2 details afterward when the unknown becomes known. If leadership is saying “So phase 1 takes until March. So what? What I want to know is, when is it all done?” you can do some handwavy what-if scenario planning to get a rough estimate. But don’t make it aggressive and make sure they know why it’s not accurate or final. That’s the best way I’ve found for walking that fine line of planning exactly how a project will go when you’ve never done such a thing before.

    13. LOVE organizing*

      I’ve been on a wild organizing kick! Recently completed a gantt chart for all the tasks we have due over the year. Big projects get broken down by task (make the tasks small) and we ensure that a staff member is assigned for each task, with a lead for bigger ones. That way nothing slips.

    14. only acting normal*

      If there is a PM don’t do their job for them – I once naively filled in where the PM was slacking, vastly increasing my workload, but once I cottoned on and refused to do it anymore they simply stepped up and acknowledged they been taking advantage. You can, and should, only control what it is your job to control.

      Clarify the overall aim / big question to answer with the customer and stakeholders (right at the outset preferably!), bearing in mind that what they say they want might not be what they actually want or need – ask “why?” a lot. Then if you get bogged down in details later step back and remind yourself what it is you’re aiming for.

      As for planning – find out the deadline and work backwards from it in big handfuls (Z needs to happen by then, so Y and X have to deliver so many weeks before to be combined, so W is needed then, V so many days before etc).
      Build in slack for everything if possible, but plenty of slack for the real uncertainties.
      Preferably have a decent scoping phase at the start, before jumping into the work, to investigate how to do the things that are new to everyone – e.g. by finding out how similar or analogous projects and sub-projects succeeded or failed and why.
      Be prepared to change the plan as the goal or circumstances change (this is inevitable and not an innate failure).

      I believe the relevant terms are “prior planning prevents p**s poor performance”, “keep it simple, stupid” (KISS), and a healthy dose of “no plan survives first exposure to the enemy”. ;)

      NB – If you have subordinates doing work for you – assuming you trust their output and they deliver on time – don’t micromanage their process in pursuit of structure. Give them their deadline and their sub-goal, but don’t demand they do the work *your* way – their way may be very different but just good at reaching the goal.

      Good luck!

  14. writelhd*

    Did I just uncover some kind of low-level resume identify theft?

    For my job, I was searching for the contact information for a consultant, so I could talk to her get a quote for her services. The who referred me to her gave me only her LinkedIn page, not an email, phone # or company name. It felt a little unusual for me to ask somebody to give me a quote for their consulting services by contacting them on LinkedIn when it’s far more normal to just call or email somebody, and her LinkedIn Profile listed a company name, so I googled her company name plus my city to see if I could find her actual company website that might have a phone # I could use. (OK, I just now discovered the “website” section on the right side of one’s LinkedIn profile. Doh. But anyway…)

    Well, in that goodle search, a URL beginning with “resumes.livecareer.com” came up that included her company name, the type of consultant she is, and our city and zip code in the search description. Curious, I clicked on it, and found a resume (with her name and contact info redacted), being displayed as an “example resume for My Industry Consultant, My City” in what looks like is a database one can search for with “1000s of resume examples!” The thing is, it looks like it is HER ACTUAL resume, just with her name and contact info redacted. It lists a very detailed career and education history that matches her LinkedIn profile, including real company and school names, and listing her accomplishments on projects she’s completed that matches stuff she brags about on her website (now that I found it.)

    So…are people out there agreeing to do this with their real resumes? Or is this some kind of minor identity theft to have to be aware of if you’re posting your resume to big recruiting websites like Monster? Or is it just a stipulation of using one of those sites to “build your resume for free” that they then make it public as a sample? Just kinda weird to me. I personally would not be OK with discovering my own resume appearing like that!

    1. CAA*

      Yes, they almost certainly did steal it from Indeed or Monster or somewhere like that. However, it’s not identity theft (they’re not using her personal information to make financial transactions in her name or impersonate her in any way); it’s more like plagiarism.

      1. writelhd*

        Yeah, I was struggling for the right words, I knew those weren’t really it, just had a nice-Friday-afternoon-me-stuck-in-windowless-office word fail. Plagiarism! That’s a better label.

    3. CM*

      You should tell her. She probably didn’t agree to that. I agree with CAA, it’s not really identity theft, but it is copyright violation, and just plain intrusive and wrong.

    4. The Tin Man*

      It looks like your thought is this website took her resume and posted it as an example.

      My first thought is that the consultant’s info is fake and taken from the livecareer website. Is that definitely not the case?

      1. writelhd*

        It could be, but the example resume is very specific to our industry, and the kind of thing you probably couldn’t make up passably if you didn’t understand our industry really well which would be hard to do if you hadn’t actually worked in it. And she was referred to me by a very trusted colleague who’s got decades of experience on me, so that colleague being duped would be pretty surprising.

  15. Myrin*

    Katie the Fed, if you’re reading – you talked about your new hire who is very casual in many little things two days ago and I’d love to hear more about that situation if you’re at all up for it? I only ever run into people like that in my personal life (so, not in a professional capacity) but I’d still love to find out how others are handling it.

  16. Electric Hedgehog*

    I just want to say that I really appreciate the general kindness and wisdom from everyone on this blog – especially Alison.

    I’m wrapping up event prep for an out of state training next week for my entire group of about forty folks. So glad it’s over.

  17. Alex*

    Has anyone with a non-HR background ever transitioned into an HR-type role? Any thoughts on how to make this happen, particularly if your current position is not at all related to HR? Thanks.

    1. Bigglesworth*

      I’m not in HR, but my former HR director transitioned from the a career services type role to HR director and he’s now the HR director at a local non-profit. One of the other people in HR that he hired transitioned from an outside daycare role to HR assistant.

      This is at a small, religious university, but it shows it can be done!

    2. HMM*

      Yes, though I switched early in my career (had about 2 years of work under my belt). I had previous admin experience and a tiny bit of benefits/payroll admin experience and spun that into a HR Coordinator role (where I still am). I had no previous education in HR otherwise. I think what got me the job is that I spent a long time already thinking about HR type things – reading AAM, Evil HR lady, etc. – so I could show that I had the instinct for thinking about HR in the way that they needed. We’re interviewing an intern who was a late-career changer, and he got his masters in HR administration to get his foot in the door, so that’s another possibility.

      I found HR to be a relatively low barrier to entry since the basic skills needed – customer service, attention to detail, administrative expertise – can easily be transferred from other industries. Good luck!

    3. periwinkle*

      I used to be in IT tech support. After my employer suddenly folded, I found myself temping in admin roles because I couldn’t land an IT role (post-9/11 recession). One clerical role turned into a long-term assignment as an HR coordinator (proving why you should always strive to impress, even as a short-term temp!). I had no HR background so I joined SHRM and read HR blogs. I took SHRM’s “Essentials of HR Management” course, now offered both in person and online, which is a crash course in the HR competencies.

      Fifteen years later, I’m a HR development practitioner at a Fortune 50 company working on my second relevant graduate degree with an eye on moving into HR analytics. So yes, you can make the initial shift into HR without the HR background!

      1. imakethings*

        What kind of masters programs are you doing? My BFF is trying to transition into HR development practitioner (she’s currently a recruiter) and isn’t sure how to get there.

        1. Perri Kennedy*

          My first master’s was in instructional design. If your BFF is interested in the training side of training & development, that’s the way to go. Lots of excellent programs out there, many of which are available online (I earned mine through a state university). My second grad degree is purely HR; you won’t get more than a class or two about the T&D side of the field but is definitely better if your interest is employee development, leadership development, and so forth (the strategic side of T&D) because you’ll have a more solid understanding of the business side of HR.

    4. lionelrichiesclayhead*

      Yes, I worked in finance for 10 years and about a year ago transitioned into an HR technology business analyst. I manage projects related to our HR systems so it’s not a traditional HR role but it’s HR based. My jobs in finance were completely unrelated to HR but a lot of it was project based. So even though I had zero HR experience coming in the door, my experience with projects allowed me to make that transition without “starting over”. I’m not sure if you are looking to transition into a traditional HR role like a generalist or talent acquisition but I would focus on what your old jobs did prepare you for, even if they are not HR focused skills. In my opinion, like with any other industry, you can learn HR along with the job. HR requires many skills that aren’t necessarily HR specific.

    5. Tedious Cat*

      I know a police detective who recently transitioned to corporate HR. I’m not sure how she made the transition, but she says it uses very similar skills.

    6. lfi*

      yep.. i did. i started as an admin (majoring in english language literature) and grew from there. i became full time hr 5 years ago (whew man.. time flies). not sure where you are, but i did take some HR courses and then sat for the PHR. now i’m going down the benefits road (which i don’t mind.. i love the personal aspect of it), and have a great team and manager who are invested in my growth.

      i’d say it also depends on the position that you are currently in – if it’s easier, more than happy to send you my personal email if you’d like to chat!

    7. NoMoreMrFixit*

      Glad you asked this as I am currently trying to do this myself. Going from IT to HR and hoping to get into HRIS. I redid my resume as a functional version that emphasizes transferable skills and now that school is done I am applying for jobs. No bites yet but it’s only been a couple of weeks.

    8. Jadelyn*

      I…honestly kinda fell face-first into my HR career, to tell the truth. I was temping to get by, just doing general admin and tech support, and got sent to a gig for part-time filing and data entry helping out with post-open-enrollment craziness for the HR dept at a mid-sized nonprofit. Well, I’m blazingly fast at data entry and pretty quick at filing, so anytime I finished something I would go to my coworkers and ask if there was anything they’d like help with. The generalist started showing me how to do job postings and prepare for onboardings; the payroll coordinator showed me how to do the first simple steps of the biweekly 401k reconciliation; the VP realized I was good with Excel and asked me to build reports and do data-wrangling for him.

      I got offered full-time, kept asking how I could help, kept being shown things, ended up going back to school for HR and wound up unofficial HRIS Admin because of my tech skills during a really rough system implementation process. The VP is working on reclassifying me as either HRIS Administrator or HRIS Analyst right now, since he and other HR leadership agree that it’s not fair to have me still classified as an Assistant given all the specialist stuff I’m doing for them with the HRIS. So…I wish I had more useful advice, but I’d see if there’s any HR-adjacent work you can do to start getting experience in that area, since it is definitely my experience that having HR-related experience is more important than having HR-related credentials, at least for “breaking in”. A lot of companies would rather hire a former Office Manager who did HR for their previous small company, than a brand-new grad with a degree in HR and no relevant experience, simply because HR is so nuanced and situational that it’s hard to translate from classroom to usable job skills.

    9. krysb*

      I’m graduating in August with concentrations in HR/OrgM and OpsM, so this question is very timely for me!

    10. Thinking Outside the Boss*

      My sister did this and she made the switch from insurance claims to HR but did it at the same company she was working for, particularly since it is a great company to work for. Since she was a known commodity, her employer was willing to let her switch roles without the experience they would normally look for. Now that she’s been doing her HR duties for longer than she ever did claims, if she needed to leave, she’d have a great HR resume.

      Of course, this option doesn’t work if your current job is a miserable place to be!

    11. Bess*

      About 10 years ago I did this by getting a temp job that became temp-to-perm when I’d proved myself a little.

      Most people I worked with in HR had found there way there through other disciplines.

  18. Sunflower*

    My team had an intern start 3 weeks ago. She has asked to leave early 10 times already. She is in a program where she works here full time and is not taking classes. This is her first office job. Half the time, it was 30 mins-1 hour early, the other half 5-10 mins. I told her that she needs to check with our boss and give her as much advance notice as possible. Twice she has defied this and asked someone else on the team first.

    Now that my boss is leaving, I will probably be the new person to say ‘yes’ or ‘no’. Frankly I want to tell her that it looks bad to leave early this many times EVER but especially when you’re first starting. Before this became an issue, I told her that it’s fine if she needs to leave early(as long as boss oks it). I didn’t realize she took that to mean she can do it all the time! She seems to think if shes done her deadline driven work she doesn’t ‘need’ to stay to work on the non-deadline driven work.

    Maybe this is wrong but when you’re entry level sometimes your job is to sit at your desk until 5pm! Heck I’n not entry level and some days I have to sit here until 5pm with not a ton to do and I would love to be elsewhere.

    I’ve never managed someone so I’m not sure how explain why it’s okay for boss to have a ‘flex’ schedule but not her?

    1. Electric Hedgehog*

      Oh, please do! As a new intern, she has no idea what’s normal and what’s not, and it will help her so much for this to be laid out for her explicitly but kindly.

    2. Jen*

      I would just say exactly what you said “It’s fine if you need to leave early but you can not do this all the time.” – If you can breakdown the differences between how hourly and salary employees are paid – a salary employee (like the boss) is essentially expected to be on call all the time. But an hourly employee is expected to work a certain amount of hours and be paid for those specific hours. Position it also as earning a reputation and earning respect. The boss has been there long enough that he has earned the respect of his position and has earned a reputation as someone who is able to get work done. A new employee does not have that yet. One of the ways you earn that is through being dependable, being professional and being seen. Working your full shift is the first step.

    3. kavm*

      even though you told her it’s okay to leave early as long as it’s approved, you can still let her know that she’s abusing that policy! 10 days out of 15 is ridiculous… She’s new to the workforce, so just say something like, “I know I told you previously that it’s ok to leave early as long as the boss oks it, but that’s really supposed to be very seldom. It expected for you to be in the office for the full 8 hours.”

      If she asks about the flex schedule you could say something about training or seniority… As an intern you’re supposed to be learning, and you can’t really do that on a flex schedule.

    4. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      I think this is something really important to learn early on so if you can help her better understand it before she gets her first job, it will help a lot. When I’ve had this conversation in the past with people, usually I explain that there are some perks of being more senior like having a more flexible schedule but it comes with a different level of expectation from your bosses as well. For me, I’ve often had to work later hours or weekends or can be on call and so it all balances out in the end. For my first job, I never had to worry about a weekend call like my boss would. Now when I work on a weekend, I change up my schedule so I’m not working 6 or 7 days a week if it’s not a busy season at my job.

    5. paul*

      Explain that to her. What she’s doing isn’t OK but if she’s new to the working world it’ll be a useful wake up. Be blunt but not rude; something like “Once in a while is fine but you’ve left early way more days then you’ve stayed until quitting time. That isn’t OK and it isn’t in keeping with office norms.”? I don’t know, I’m not always great with phrasing but definitely address it

    6. Amtelope*

      I think she probably got the wrong impression when you told her that it’s fine if she needs to leave early. Because she’s an intern, I’d set some clear expectations. Possible script: “I just want to clarify the expectations for when you need to be in the office. We need you in the office until 5:00. If you’ve met your deadlines on X, you should keep working on Y and Z until 5:00, or ask for more work if you run out of things to do. While it’s OK to occasionally leave earlier if you have an appointment, leaving early multiple times a week is too often.”

      And, if she follows up with “but boss leaves early!”: “Boss has a different job with a different kind of schedule. This internship isn’t a role with a flexible schedule. We need you to work your scheduled hours.”

      1. Thlayli*

        This is exactly what I’m thinking. I’m imagining her going home that night and thinking “how awesome is this, if I finish my work I can leave! What a great job.”

        I think it’s poor communication – you said something meaning in that specific case it was fine to leave early, she heard in general it’s fine to leave early.

        Solution: better communication. “Jane, I may have given you the wrong impression when I said it’s ok to leave early. I meant that if you have a specific reason and you get permission in advance, then it is fine to leave early once in a while. But it’s not fine to do it every other day. In fact it will probably get you a bad reputation. In general it’s not a good idea to request to leave early even if you’ve finished your work unless you need to leave for an appointment or something”

        Also you might consider asking her if there’s a transport reason for her requests. If she leaves 10 mins early every day it might be because she can get an early bus and save herself an hours commute. If that is the case and she would actually be just sitting at her desk doing nothing for the last 10 minutes then perhaps done accommodation could be reached e.g. Knock 10 mins off her lunch break and give her an official early finish. Company culture permitting.

    7. MuseumChick*

      Oh please do talk to her about it. Maybe something like, “When we talked about this last time I don’t think I was clear. It is OK to ask to leave early very occasionally. That means you should really only ask to leave early X times in Y time period. Of course of there is some kind of emergency exceptions can be made. I’m telling you this because work norms are not always intuitive. As you gain more work experience and move into higher position this kind of thing becomes more flexible but early in your career before you’ve build up years of credit it’s something to be really aware of.”

      2. Parenthetically*

        Yeah, this is good phrasing. Explicitly framing it as, “This is something you might not pick up on your own, so I wanted to make it clear,” can help fend off any potential defensiveness and embarrassment as well.

        1. MuseumChick*

          I “stole” this phrasing from one of Alison’s answer to a letter. I don’t even remember which one but the phase about “this isn’t intuitive so I’m tell you” has always stuck with me.

    8. Blue eagle*

      And it would be a kindness to him to spell out what “need” means when you said it was OK if he needed to leave early (i.e. OK if you have a specific reason like a doctor’s appt, not OK just because you would like to go) and how often is generally acceptable (i.e. we would prefer that you don’t leave early more than once a month – or whatever your preference is). Sometimes interns are clueless – and I say this as a former clueless intern.

    9. ruff orpington*

      It also might be good to give her some suggestions on what to do when she’s done with her work and it’s before end of day. This might be the switch from task oriented (college term papers, lab assignments) vs. longer term jobs. Suggesting some things for long term projects, office organization, training programs, etc… might be a good idea

      1. Whats In A Name*

        This is a great idea, too. Or give her some books related to the field, leadership development, etc. that aren’t required but that she can read when she finished her tasks and has down time.

        I’m just threading this question here since it’s open thread and I am sure it will be seen: Is she leaving early because she is down with work or because she’s made plans – as in she knew in advance that she would need to leave early because she told friends she’d meet up with them at 5:15 but the destination is 20 minutes away? That could also be a coaching moment here.

        i agree with others that it’s a growing/coaching/learning opportunity since she is an intern and might not be aware of professional norms just yet. You can help her transition and succeed in her first “real” job by doing this.

    10. Emmie*

      Yes, say something! : ) Maybe “when I talked to you before about leaving early, I should have mentioned the office norms here and in most places for an intern / entry-level / employee without significant experience. Leaving early is normal one to two times per year [or whatever is okay with you] and those requests must be made only to me, your manager. You’re expected to be here 8 am – 5 pm daily. Excuse me for not telling you this sooner. I assumed that you knew this norm, and I should not have made that assumption. You’ll often see people at much higher levels leaving and arriving at different times. They typically put in extra hours at home, or have off-site meetings.” (It’s a little wordy, but hope it helps.) If she continues to ask others after the conversation, I’d treat it like a normal disciplinary issue to the intern and (perhaps) the person giving permission.

      1. Parenthetically*

        I like this too. I’m all for one last, “Let’s break this down in a super-kind, extremely clear way” before making it a disciplinary issue.

    11. LKW*

      I would also ask why she needs to leave early. Is there nothing she can do in that last half hour/ hour of time? Surely there is some project that could be parsed out to fill in those dead hours. File management, document shredding, inventory, something that is on a longer timeline and any help would be beneficial.

      The fact that she’s not finding those tasks and offering them up – or not suggesting things makes me think this is for the resume line, not the actual experience.

      How is her work otherwise?

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        I was going to say to find out why she’s asking to leave early too.

        I had a coworker at OldJob who, if she left 5 minutes early, could catch Bus A, but if she stayed until end time, she had to wait almost an hour for Bus B. Our manager was willing to shift her hours a little so that wouldn’t happen.

        1. Ama*

          It could also be a workflow issue — she’s finishing her day’s tasks and the people who should be assigning more tell her they don’t have anything after 4 pm, or something.

          When I was supervising student workers the two things even my best workers needed guidance on were keeping me in the loop about their time off needs and learning how to be proactive about finding new tasks when they finished their current ones (whether that was remembering to do the list of tasks they were supposed to do regularly or just coming to me to ask for more work).

        2. CheeryO*

          This is exactly what I was thinking. I want to believe that I would have been self-aware enough even as a brand-new intern to explain the situation and ask if I could make up the time somewhere else, but I’m not totally sure that I would have been.

      2. Lily in NYC*

        We had an intern forced on us a couple of years ago – his dad is a big cheese who has done a lot of pro bono work for us. The kid was in HS (we usually have college juniors or seniors) and demanded that he wouldn’t work Fridays because he wanted to beat the crowds to get to the Hamptons. And my boss agreed!
        And he would roll his eyes every time anyone asked him to do anything. All he did all day was play on FB and look at photos of himself on Patrick McMullan’s website of “society” people. I am usually really nice to our interns, but when this jerkwad had the balls to ask me to switch cubicles with him (I sat by a window in a big cube and he had a crappy intern cube), it was pretty satisfying to say no to him (and I wasn’t very nice about it).

        1. KarenT*

          Omg that does take nerve! Not nearly as bad, but I did have a very entry level employee ask me if she could be next in line for an office. She seemed taken aback when I explained at our company offices were given by role, if you’re a manager or very senior individual contributor you get an office. She really thought she could just call dibs on next, like we’d just overlook all her much more senior colleagues.

          2. Engineer Woman*

            No, I think the intern wanting to switch desks to be by the window is worse. He’s an intern (temporary) and wants to switch cubes?!
            Whereas entry level permanent employee simply doesn’t know yet that offices as usually assigned by role seniority, not by calling dibs.

    12. neverjaunty*

      Going to someone else when she doesn’t like the (correct) answer you give her is completely out of line, on top of leaving early.

    13. imakethings*

      It sounds like she just doesn’t know. One thought I had, is that maybe she looks at her parents’ work schedules and thinks that entry level positions work the same way. For example, I grew up thinking all offices were flexible about in/out times because my mom’s job was. She left work early all the time. Granted, she constantly worked from home but just wanted to relocate to her couch some afternoons. I still hate zero flexibility in work scheduling, but as an adult I can look back and realize that it’s because it was a taught mindset. Also because some days I just miss my damn train and I know that nothing will *actually* happen if I show up at 8:04, but my employer doesn’t agree.

    14. Nacho*

      I remember my first job, thinking I could skip both my breaks and leave a half an hour early instead. You’re doing her a great service by explaining to her how things work

    15. Been There, Done That*

      This is one of the things someone learns on an internship–that they’re required to be on the job during their job hours, and that the boss can do things that line staff can’t BECAUSE they are the boss. Some kinds of jobs allow more flexible schedules if the work is done, but not every place is like that. Intern also needs to understand that it’s not her call to set her hours, it’s her boss’s.

  19. Spoonie*

    My company has scheduled new(ish) hires for headshots. The company as a whole is spread out nationally, so plenty of meetings take place via Skype. Being the anonymous grey face has been my favorite since I’m a younger employee who is making lots of big decisions for a rather larger company. In a lot of cases, I’m telling them that they need to make lots of changes, which can be uncomfortable since I tend to be in meetings with people several levels above me.

    Does anyone have any tips on what to wear to photograph well and in a way to be professional/be taken seriously? We’ve been given a dress code (black or navy blazer, solid color blouse, no chunky jewelry). I somehow don’t own either of those blazer colors, so I’ll be shopping. Any suggestions on places with reasonably priced blazers? My store of choice has gone out of business.

    1. Katie ElderBerry*

      For me it’s Target, they actually have some nice work wear and it’s cheap enough that I can afford to have it tailored.

      1. Tedious Cat*

        I really love Target’s work slacks, but I need to get them hemmed. Also, sizing varies a lot depending on the style (I wear a size smaller in the modern than the classic).

    2. Kowalski! Options!*

      Our local secondhand/Sally Ann shops are an absolute treasure trove of discarded designer duds. I’ve picked up some absolutely gorgeous work wear, especially blazers, for a song.

      1. Putting Out Fires, Esq*

        A lawyer with some fairly flexible court dress code agrees with this! People seem to buy blazers all the time and then never wear them. I get them new with tags all the time.

    3. Jen*

      My favorite store of choice has also gone out of business (The Limited! I miss you!). I recommend J Crew Factory for blazers. Banana Republic Factory is also good. Both have online ordering available if you don’t have one in your town. Otherwise, Loft is pretty good too.

      Try on a few different necklines for blouses and take a cell phone pic to see what works best. Bring a friend along who can be honest with what works best for you. A lot of people tend to go for button downs but those can look bulky. Sometimes just a nice buttonless shell works.

      1. Annie Moose*

        Banana Banana Banana. 90% of my closet is from there.

        However, I actually was just in a Banana Republic Factory store this past weekend, and you might have a tough time finding a navy or black blazer–it was all spring stuff, so it was mostly lighter colors! They do usually have good blouses, though.

    4. k*

      I think the dress code they’ve listed is a perfect outfit to wear. A dark neutral blazer is a classic, just make sure it fits well, and for the blouse choose a color that compliments your skin tone. If you happen to know where the photo will be taken, think about that when choosing a color, so that you can avoid matching the background if possible.

      I would check Kohls. They usually have a decent selection of basic business clothes year round. My other choices are Target and Old Navy for price, but their selection varies more by season.

    5. Ann Furthermore*

      Yes, try Target. Also try TJ Maxx, Marshall’s, or Ross. Lots of junk to pick through at those places, but I get lucky and find something nice often enough for me to keep going there. Just make sure you have enough time to spend.

      Also, if you have a fair complexion, stay away from lighter colored blouses. They will make you look really pale and washed out. In my last head-shot I wore a dark brown shell top, with a matching dark brown jacket/cardigan type thing in a stretchy, acetate type fabric, and I really liked how it came out.

      2. Parenthetically*

        Yep, TJ Maxx is my go-to for nicer pieces on a budget. Their clearance is great, and this time of year they’ll be likely to have loads of wintery colors and blazers on clearance.

        And great advice about colors! I think with a dark-colored blazer especially, a saturated (not necessarily bright, but rich) color is going to photograph better.

        1. Ann Furthermore*

          It took me so long to figure that out. I’m pretty fair, but not ghostly or anything, and I can’t tell you how many pictures I have where I look pasty and sickly. I don’t know what it is….maybe the reflection or lighting caused the flash? I have no idea.

    6. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      If you have any consignment shops in your area, check them out. I found a very nice Calvin Klein blazer at one near me that I’m sure was originally very costly, and I paid $30 for it. It was in great condition.

      1. Parenthetically*

        Another good suggestion! We have loads of “fine consignment” shops around town that only take designer brands, and a person can easily pick up very gently used high end professional clothing for 10-20% of what it would have originally cost.

    7. Here we go again*

      Clearance section at Macy’s… Seriously, they have some really good deals on decent quality stuff if you are willing to browse.

    8. Badmin*

      TjMaxx, Marshalls, Loft (Outlet), Banana Republic (Outlet), will have what you’re looking for at a great quality.

    9. Spoonie*

      Y’all are glorious people. I think a lot of my panic is heavily introvert induced with a side of “but I like my anonymity”. There’s also a dash of knowing that my boss and I are working on projects that people are going to balk at (again), and I’m going to have to explain how teapot design works in the modern era.

      1. Whats In A Name*

        Since you can’t wear chunky jewelry and I am not sure what you hair looks like I would suggest neutral makeup, stud earring if you wear earrings and wearing your hair in a simple style but down if you have longer hair, not pulled back. If you have a set of pearls that lie close to your neck that might be a good touch; I also agree with the person who said not to wear light colors, dark or dark jewel tones (not obnoxious but a dark teal or dark purple) can look nice under a navy suit jacket.

        I 2nd those saying upscale consignment or Banana Republic. Right now Banana is having a 40% off sale for merchandise in the regular stores and their blazers will last you a lifetime. Are they aren’t trendy.

    10. Marisol*

      My suggestion is unethical, but if it’s just for one photo, you can always buy a nice blazer, keep the tags on while taking the picture, and return it. No, I don’t do this personally. But I wouldn’t judge someone else for doing it if they felt it necessary under the circumstances.

    11. JustaTech*

      Target has surprisingly good work wear (but make sure it fits!), and I’ve been very pleased with H&M, of all places, for plain button-downs. If you’ve got time and energy Nordstrom Rack can have really high quality stuff too.

      1. CheeryO*

        I can vouch for H&M’s blazers too. They’re pretty nice quality for the price. They do tend to run small, though, so it’s best to be able to try them on in-store.

        1. Marisol*

          Especially if it’s just for a photo. No one will be able to see the stitching or how it drapes.

    12. ByLetters*

      If you’re worried about looking young (you kind of mentioned your age in passing, so not sure if you are), buy or borrow a pair of glasses to wear just for the picture. People unconsciously take this to mean you are older — I had a manager who used his insurance to pick up a nice pair of frames that he only ever wore to interviews & important meeting because he had something of a baby face.

      1. zora*

        Glasses, yes. And normally I hate the “makeup is more professional” bull$&#t, but in this case, makeup will be key. Honestly, if I was you, I would go find a good department store makeup person now, and get a consultation and a trial, and then make an appt with that person the day of the headshots. You want someone who can do very natural, professional looking makeup, but who has experience with photo shoots. There is very specific makeup that photographs well, but it will make your face stand out more, and you will look older and more mature if you have good makeup on.

        And definitely find out if the headshots will be color or black and white first to tell your makeup person, that makes a huge difference. I personally would try a Laura Mercier counter, or Bobby Brown, or maybe L’Oreal (not MAC, they are more about flashy and color). It will be a bit pricey, but this would be 100% worth it for me if I was worried about looking too young in professional headshots, and you will be using this headshot for at least a few years.

        1. Nic*

          I was coming to mention the makeup thing too, especially if you normally look washed out in dark colors.

          Additionally, ahead of the day (and possibly when/if you do the makeup consultation/trial) decided what to do with your hair. In my experience, straight down often comes across as young, while things like a pony tail or bun can be unflattering depending on face shape. Pick something that looks professional, clean, and flattering.

    13. Government Worker*

      I’ve recently ended up with several blazers from H&M, of all places, and they’re pretty cheap (like $30-60) and have worked out well for me. Worth checking out if you’re on a budget.

    14. Ama*

      I got a nice black blazer from JCPenney’s for a pretty reasonable price. It’s not quite as comfortable for all day events as the blazers I spent a little more on, but it looks just fine.

    16. BuildMeUp*

      I would go with a navy blazer over black because black can wash you out in photos, depending on your skin tone. Wear a blouse in a color that brings out your eyes.

      I would also look at the headshots of the people you’re usually in meetings with (the ones several levels above you) and try to make your headshot look similar. Take a look at what they’re wearing (colors, style, amount of jewelry), their expression (straight-faced, smiling, smiling without teeth, head tilted or straight to camera), etc.

    17. Anon Lawyer*

      I’ve long been concerned about looking younger than I am (and still am told I look ten years younger than I do). The biggest suggestion I have is to make sure that the clothes you are wearing are well-tailored and have a conservative (not too trendy) look. Clothes that are even a little oversized make you look much younger. Also, I wear glasses all the time, and they don’t make me look older. If you do get glasses just for the look, make sure they are not oversized and that they have an “older,” non-subglasses vibe.

      I need to wear suits on a regular basis and am now choosing quality over price, so most of my wardrobe is Nordstroms, Brooks Brothers and MM Lafleur. I highly recommend the Brooks Brothers outlet if you want conservative wear for a good price, men or women. (But all of my casual wear is from Target and Kohl’s.)

  20. Ella P.*

    I am working in a company where I’m very unhappy but the benefits are good. With lack of many other options I am trying to adapt my attitude to stay for now because I’m not in a position to leave. I can look for other jobs of course but my question is this, have anyone been able to make the most of a bad situation? Have any tips?

    I’m overqualified for my role, the non-exempt staff is treated very poorly in comparison to management here and I largely feel useless in this environment. I’ve talked to my manager who doesn’t seem to get it really and is unable/unwilling to help me and it’s the whole situation is wearing on me. People don’t leave given the benefits and so getting things done is an every day challenge (like getting someone’s new title updated in the Outlook system takes months). People are here for years and there’s no real accountability and they are completely ok with that. I start most days positive, determined to make the best of it and every day on the drive home, I’m angry and miserable and feel like i’m just wasting my life at this place. Any tips on how to hang in for now without losing my mind? I may take advantage of the their Tuition Assistance to try and make it more palatable but that will also tie me in some and I already feel trapped. Thanks.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      I’m sorry. Benefits aside, this doesn’t really sound doable long-term.

      I hate to say it, but when I encountered a situation kind of like this, I coped by just doing what was necessary and stopped caring about anything I wasn’t directly responsible for. Example: at OldExjob, I had to send out these product literature things and they were supposed to have samples in them. Well, later management and purchasing couldn’t seem to get their shit together to keep them in stock, or find any alternatives, and I wasn’t supposed to send them out without the samples.

      It really bugged me–I felt like I couldn’t get what I needed to do my job and we had sales people asking all the time for this stuff. But I couldn’t get anyone to help me. So I just gave up and put the packets together EXCEPT for the samples, so when we did get some, I could slap them in and send the packets. If the sales folks or customers wanted other literature, I’d send that and tell them we were waiting on samples. Sometimes I was able to cobble a few sets together and send just a few instead of the amount they wanted.

      It was hella annoying, because up until then, I had prided myself on excelling at this part of my job. I had to disengage from what other people were (not) doing and just do what I could. Their failure wasn’t my failure. Doing this kept me from getting upset about the situation. In the meantime, I was job hunting.

      1. Ella P.*

        Thanks. I have a friend who has suggested I “just do the job you are paid to do” which is very different than what I am used to… I enjoy doing more and having more responsibility, taking on projects – there is none of that here and when I attempt to do more it’s awkward, like I’m reaching above my station… it’s clear that that isn’t expected of me and people even find it odd even though I was told and it was posted that this job was for a senior and skilled admin coordinator… I’ve now been here 18 months and nothing is changing… people are very comfortable at a turtle’s pace and being indifferent… i guess I need to gear up for the job search… thanks again!

        2. Wheezy Weasel*

          I’ve done several stints in places like this…everyone moves slowly and accountability nowhere to be found. One thing that kept me going was taking pride in the fact that I could do things faster, more accurately, and with better customer service than anyone else, even if it was evident only to me. Once I moved on to a job where this type of effort was valued (and in fact, normal) I was able to adapt quickly to the faster workload. In one role, I did stay about 2 years too long and got a bit complacent, so the next time I found myself there, I made a conscious effort to get out within 2 years.

          1. Ella*

            That is a concern of mine. Besides the soft skills I’m not even using a lot of the advanced skills I have in a number of programs and I worry that when I move on my qualifications could be outdated. I do attempt to just follow my own values and service level but it is challenging in an environment that doesn’t support or mirror that. Thanks for your feedback!

    2. Lily in NYC*

      I am going through this right now – my job has turned into much lower-level work lately because of the needs of my department. I am doing the same kind of work I did early in my career when I was paying my dues. I just keep reminding myself about the good things here – like I can dress pretty casually, I get a decent salary for what i do, the grass isn’t always greener elsewhere…it’s kind of like a mantra I keep saying to myself. But it doesn’t really help when I’m stuck in subway delays for the third time in a row.

      1. Ella P.*

        I hear you Lily. I do the same, the pay isn’t bad, I work from home one day a week (which is two hours I don’t drive a week)… but it’s not helping as much as I’d like it to. Good luck – at least you’re in “the city”, I’m in Philly and it doesn’t compare! :)

    3. Not So NewReader*

      It’s odd how we can get locked onto on thing and keep ourselves in a crappy job for that reason.

      You say you MAY take advantage. Either do it or get out. Why torture yourself with years of this nonsense? Your medical costs will far exceed the cost of your tuition. And your medical costs will not be covered the way you think they should be covered.
      Meanwhile years of your life are flying by and you are learning how to limp from one day to the next. It would be much better to go out there and learn to soar like an eagle.

      And really this is not terrible hard, when you are looking for a new job you can say, “My current place offers tuition assistance do you do anything here in this regard?”

      In short when we allow ourselves to stagnate for tuition or whatever reason, it can be mind-bending. Do what you need to do so you do not think you are stagnating.

      1. Ella*

        Learning how to limp… great way to put it. This is the conclusion I’m coming to, that I HAVE TO leave to keep my health and sanity. But having been without work and also knowing my husband’s company offers poorer benefits at 3 times the price I try to take everything into account. Thanks for your comment.

    4. Rocketship*

      I empathize so hard on the feeling trapped bit. I’m in a somewhat similar position – in that my ability to do my job depends on some highly undependable people, support from management is… lukewarm, and there are lots of angry/miserable days. However, there are some serious tangible and non-tangible benefits (flexible schedule, recent promotion & raise, a not-insignificant percentage of really awesome coworkers, etc) that make me loath to leave. This is in addition to the fact that my partner is very slowly working toward quitting their dysfunctional miserable job, and I have pledged my utmost support emotionally and financially while that happens.

      I’ve found a few coping mechanisms:

      – Forgive yourself on the days you don’t do your best. Some folks upthread have mentioned this sort of “stay in your lane” mentality, and I fully agree. Think of it less as giving oneself permission to be lazy… and more as giving oneself permission not to single-handedly save the company. All you can do is the best you can do, and some days the best you can do is the bare minimum. Don’t beat yourself up for it – clearly, others in your organization aren’t.

      – Set boundaries. At least in my organization, there’s a lot of expectation that certain employees (usually lower on the totem pole and almost always female) take on a the lion’s share of the responsibilities. This in turn leads to what I’ve termed the “If You Give A Mouse A Cookie” effect – i.e. if you go out of your way to be helpful even once, that then becomes your new norm and the next time you will be asked for that PLUS something else, and get attitude for saying no, and so on forever and ever amen. I’ve found that setting clear boundaries like “Rocketship is never available on weekends, ever” or “Rocketship will not file those TPS reports on behalf of the person responsible for them, unless specifically asked to and for good reason.”

      – Search for other jobs. No, seriously. You don’t have to accept any of them – you don’t even need to apply. But remind yourself that you have options. Remind yourself that there is a big wide world of Other Jobs out there, filled with Other People who would want to hire you and that could potentially be your people and not suck. And who knows? You just might stumble across something that makes it worth leaving your excellent benefits and shitty workplace behind.

      Best of luck, I hope you find ways to make it more bearable. We’re all rooting for you.

      1. Ella*

        Thanks so much. Great tips and I agree with you, just exploring options does seem to make things feel better… best of luck to you with your situation as well! My husband has a real tyrant for a boss so I can understand your support of your partner – I know I don’t want to burden mine who is dealing with his own challenges. Wouldn’t it be great if this time last year we were all in a better place? :)

    5. Been There, Done That*

      Gee, do we work together?

      Re nonexempt employees, my boss acts like lunch is a perk and unpaid overtime is the way to prove you’re a team player.

      I understand about being angry and miserable all the time. Try to have a life and some fun outside of the office. My job takes so much out of me that I’m exhausted on much of my off time, so it’s really really hard. I should take my own advice.

      1. Ella*

        I’ve heard we give the advice we most need to take :) Like you I am completely exhausted at the end of the day, it’s a real struggle to just get errands and chores done much less have fun (what is that?)… thanks for your comment! good luck!

    6. Thlayli*

      I vaguely recall a letter on AAM asking something similar and one part of the advice was essentially to look outside of work for things to fulfill your drive and ambition. Write a book, take up a craft etc.

      I don’t remember enough details to search for it however.

  21. Audiophile*

    I think I’m leading a project. I say I think because I’m still a little unsure if it qualifies as a project.

    Either way, it’s exciting.

    Basically, I work in development and suggested that we start grouping our lapsed donors accordingly, and give them their own GL. Since, I made this suggestion, I was told to take the lead.

    I’ve never done anything like this before and I’m a bit terrified.

    Project people, how’d you handle your first project? How did it go? What did you learn?

    1. Mongoose*

      I’m a project manager for a development office. Here’s some general advice:
      Start any project by stating your project goal, what you hope to accomplish, and how you’re going to determine success (short/long term). Then map out what you need to do (scope), figure out who you need help from to accomplish it (resources/stakeholder), and how long you think you’ll need to do it (timeline). Set up a schedule that you think is realistic (tasks/milestones) and assign it out to your resources.
      The most important things I learned early in my career were: take the time to set up the project up properly; make sure you’re talking to the people who you’ll need help in advance for their feedback/thoughts; don’t hesitate to stop check in frequently with your project team to make sure you’re still on the right track; and definitely, definitely, give yourself a deadline and a reason for having that deadline. Projects without deadlines (or arbitrary deadlines) are rarely successful in my experience. Good luck!!!

    2. SL #2*

      I’m going through my first project at this job too. I took the reins from an associate who’d gotten some initial research together but then quit, and now my boss is giving me the green light to move ahead with a project plan, recommendations, implementation, etc., but I am also lucky to work with some really talented project managers, so I’m picking up a lot just through osmosis. For example: oh, Jane created this project plan for Project A and it’s very useful, let me see if I can draw up something similar for my project, even if nothing is the same other than formatting.

  22. Mongoose*

    Looking for some advice for helping my 23-year old cousin in his career: He’s an ivy league grad from the DC area, who majored in environmental science. He’s not had any luck finding a permanent job on the west coast or his hometown, and is living at home trying to figure out what to do next. I live in Chicago and have offered him a place to stay if he wants to explore options in Chicago. My request is two fold:
    1. For anyone who works in environmental sciences or energy industries in the midwest–do you have recommendations for industry networking groups/professional groups he should look into?
    2. Any recent grads willing to share things that have made you feel supported or things you’d wish friends/family would/would not say to you about job searching/employment? We’re a decade apart in age, and my post-college experience has proven to be very different than his. I want to help him as much as I can, but saying, “here’s what I did!” doesn’t seem very realistic given the differences in the job market and economy.

    1. Not a Cat Lady*

      2. Don’t give industry-specific advice. That’s always very very annoying. If he ASKS you for advice, fine — you know, you can say, read AAM blog, get mentors, learn about the industry, tailor your resume. But I can’t stand it when people are in some other field and they lecture me about what they would imagine would be the thing to do because they watched a movie about it this one time, or whatever. Also, you sound like you have your head on straight, but it always irked me when people were surprised I got a job. Or a good job. Or a job quickly. Or a real job with a real title. Like just because you watched someone grow up doesn’t mean they’re still 10.

      1. Mongoose*

        Thanks, Not a Cat Lady. That’s a very helpful perspective. I was his babysitter for most of his life, but I have always been so impressed with him as a person, I cringe to think me celebrating his success could come off as surprise/relief/not believing he was capable. I will definitely consider how I express this moving forward.
        If you’re willing to share some more advice, is there anything on a personal level that anyone has said to you (not along the lines of industry specific advice) that has felt supportive or encouraging? I don’t want to say, “don’t worry–it will work out; I didn’t get a job immediately and look, I turned out fine!” That sort of stuff feels dismissive and and super jerky to me, not to mention my definition of success may be extremely different than his.

        1. Not a Cat Lady*

          Yeah, well, I think reading him helps. If you don’t know how to respond, you can ask! “Are you excited about the job!?” “How do you think it’s going?” You can turn gently turn questions around on him. I think generally when people are in a tough situation they want to feel supported. That means being open to talking to him, not necessarily giving advice. Or you could always say, “How do you want me to respond? Are you looking for advice or someone to celebrate with?” etc.

          For me personally, it didn’t mean very much coming from someone outside of the field. Because if someone random is like, “Try harder,” it’s like, what do you know. If someone in the field is like, “Try harder,” it’s like, you’re capable and able to do more, and it becomes exciting instead. You might be most supportive by not doing that much and showing him you trust him to make good choices and work through his own mistakes.

    2. Anxa*

      FWIW I know at least a handful of 33 year olds (I’m a little younger) that are still looking for full-time, regular jobs in environmental science. Most of them had been the first to be laid off in 2010 (last in, first out) and are still trying to get a real toe-hold.

      One of my closer friends in this position has lamented that his family just doesn’t seem to understand that of COURSE he’s worried about his financial future, and knows he probably won’t be able to have children or ever have a house, but that he’s still wildly successful in many other ways. Sure moving around is expensive, but he still sees it an an adventure. To get any job, permanent or not, is a real feat! And while the work can be physically unpleasant at some times, he’s also happy to get to be outside a lot and work on a variety of projects and avoid a desk job.

      Basically, he’s worried, but wishes his family understood how normal it is to work seasonal contracts and jump around a lot in that line of work.

      1. Mongoose*

        Thanks!! That is very helpful to know–I wonder if he knows it? I am sure his parents don’t. I’ve been trying hard not to come at this from that mindset–my definition of success may not be the same as his and I would hate to evaluate him that way.

      2. katamia*

        Yeah, one of my coworkers at the part-time (retail, but not soul-sucking) job was an environmental science major, and she’s talked about how hard it is to get a start in it, although I think she’s a pretty new grad (within the last 2-3 years if not newer than that) unlike the people you know.

    3. DiscoTechie*

      Mr. DiscoTechie is in the environmental/science field over here in West Michigan. I’d recommend Air and Waste Management as a great professional group to look into. It seems to be a good mix of public, consulting, and industry folks.

      2. PAH*

        There are several professional groups out there, and they tend to fall along media lines (air, water, waste). I will second AWMA for air quality. Others include Central States Water Environment Association (CSWEA), Solid Waste Association of North America (SWANA), the Auditing Roundtable (environmental auditing), Alliance for Hazardous Material Professionals (for CHMM certification holders), and I’m sure there are others. What I’ve seen is that participation seems to vary quite a bit locally, so he should figure out what group is most active in his area.

        One other suggestion: Does he have his 40-hour HAZWOPER certification? There are certain jobs that require it, but even for those where it’s not mandatory, it’s looked on as a positive in the environmental world. A lot of places offer the training, but if he’s a recent grad, he might be able to find a course where he qualifies for a student rate, rather than full price. It might give him a little bit of an edge in his job search.

    4. Writelhd*

      While not a full time job, the student conservation association http://www.thesca.org works with federal and state agencies to do environmental internships. Many are at parks and provide housing and a small stipend, and can be various lengths in nature. Many environmental jobs are fiercely competed for and are often at federal or state agencies which are hard to get into before we even talk about budget cuts. Some agencies use SCAs as training pools for future hires. SCA internships are often at new college grad level, not undergrad level. I know several people working for state forest service who did multiple SCAs first. I did one and did not ultimately go straight environmental science with my career but do not at all regret having done it while I was young and had few expenses.

        1. Mongoose*

          Thank you so much for the recommendation; he’s just finished his undergrad, but I will send it his way. Being from DC I know he thought he’d easily get a job at a government agency, but the last 12month have proved to be pretty demoralizing.

          1. writelhd*

            It is nearly impossible to get a government agency job in many environmental fields without prior agency experience. For instance to get a job with the National Park Service you basically have to have previous NPS experience or your application doesn’t even register in their computer system. And SCA is especially for people who just finished college and are trying to get experience with environmental organizations.

    5. Rainy, PI*

      Well, if he went to an Ivy, one of the first things he can do is see what his university does for alums in terms of helping out with internship and job opportunities. He should be able to access some real help via their Career Services office.

      Also, if he’s in envsci, he could do worse than start looking hard at Colorado. We have a LOT of environmental science opportunities, from USGS/NOAA/NREL campuses through industry that uses environmental science grads and even recreational companies and startups that employ envsci grads. Something to keep in mind (for when the fed hiring freeze lifts) is the Pathways Program, which tends to be an easier route into federal agencies than the normal competitive process.

      I don’t know if this is helpful or not, but I hope so.

      1. Lemon Zinger*

        Seconding this. I was friends with a lot of environmental science/studies majors in college, and many of them have moved to Colorado! Several also did the Peace Corps, focusing on environmental issues, or went to graduate school.

      2. Mongoose*

        Thank you! It IS helpful–all of this is helpful. He’s mostly stuck to the west coast and east coast because that’s where our family is located, but I am hoping having him visit me in Chicago will open him up to seeing that there are things going on in the rest of the county :)

    6. Clever Name*

      I’m an environmental scientist. I’m not a recent grad, and I’ve been in my current job 6 years, so not terribly recent job searching experience. Here’s a list of industry groups he could look into. I tried to list the national ones. I’m in Denver, and there are many local/regional groups that don’t necessarily have a national presence.

      Society of American Military Engineers
      National Association of Environmental Professionals
      American Council of Engineering Companies
      Air and Waste Management Association
      American Wind Energy Association
      American Water Resources Association
      Interstate Technology and Regulatory Council

      Generally, it’s totally cool to introduce yourself as a new grad looking for a job. I would say that there’s usually at least one person at every meeting I attend who is looking for work, and I found my last job by saying just that in a meeting.

      If your cousin is open to relocating, the Denver area seems to have a ton of environmental jobs. EPA HQ for the Region is in Denver, Fort Collins has USGS, and Denver is a hub for engineering and environmental consulting firms.

      1. Mongoose*

        Wow–thank you for such a comprehensive list! A few people in this thread have mentioned Colorado; he’s never really lived anywhere other than the east or west coast, but I’ve been encouraging him to try traveling a bit more this year and trying out new places (like visiting me in the midwest).

        1. Clever Name*

          Colorado is pretty similar to the west coast in terms of being laid back, but it’s more libertarian/conservative than CA. More ranching than farming. Energy jobs, both renewable and fossil fuel. I really love it here.

    7. Jersey's Mom*

      Ecologist in WI here. If he’s more ecological type, I suggest he look for seasonal work (April-Oct) with state agencies (DNR, DOT) such as an LTE position. Also seasonal work with environmental consulting firms. Sure, it’s not permanent, but provides a paycheck for part of the year, and more importantly gets you on-the-ground experience (you do learn a lot with these jobs) and gives you a foot in the door for future permanent positions that may open up.

      1. Mongoose*

        Thank you! I think that sounds ideal. I know most of his internships have been more about policy (because that’s what his Ivy-league connections seemed to push him toward?) but he’s expressed frustration at not knowing how to go about getting an actual first job doing anything vs. mid-level policy maker at a government agency.

        1. Bex*

          If he’s in DC, has he considered looking into environmental NGOs? They all have big offices there, and many of them are currently staffing up their policy departments. My recommendation would be to look at any and all assistant level positions and consider them a foot in the door. When he finds one that looks interesting, then he needs to work the crap out his alumni association. I get emails at least once a month from new grads interested in my company. I’m always happy to talk to them about the company, my career path, etc and if they seem competent and qualified then I’ll give them a referral… it doesn’t guarantee them an in-person interview but it almost always gets them a phone screening. After that it’s on them.

        2. Jersey's mom*

          Most state and all federal agencies have websites where you can sign up to get emails about job postings. This also goes for some larger municipalities. Sign up for the email lists immediately, and be very liberal about the type of jobs you’re interested in — at least then he knows some of the jobs in his area/state that are available. Also shop the web for consulting firms that seem to be doing work that are somewhat related to his degree AND the things he likes to do. For example, I’ve seen a lot of wetland biologists go into the Forest Service. Didn’t seem too intuitive, but there are jobs there that work for them. The thing is now is to cast that net wide! Look at agencies and jobs that may seem only tangentially related to the degree. In my area of Environmental, it’s pretty standard to assume that the first years post-college will be temporary/short term jobs – which eventually lead to permanent positions after the person has a few years of actual work (and field work) under their belt.

          But, of course, you’re not the job hunter — maybe you can just print this thread of ideas and hand it to him. My suggestion to you is to not ask questions, but only suggest that you’d be willing to listen if he wanted to vent and that you’d help with any questions he might have. When you’re looking for a job and it’s not going well/fast, sometimes every question can seem like an accusation.

        3. Jersey's mom*

          And, I’m an ecologist that works for a large corporation in the energy industry. I’d say pretty much every large energy corporation (think Excel, Southern Company, Con Ed, Peoples Gas, etc) has a large and vigorous environmental department and most of them follow state and federal policy/law and proposals.

          Start following some of the webgroups of collaborators — like Bat and Wind Energy Collaboration, Avian PowerLine Interaction Committee, (or whatever energy environmental issue is of interest) and energy industry groups like EPRI and EEI.

      2. Clever Name*

        Yes. He can’t be afraid of having a seasonal job or two under his belt. He’ll likely start out doing fairly crappy fieldwork, at least in consulting. But doing the fieldwork is the necessary foundation for doing the higher level technical and project management work.

    8. CheeryO*

      Have him look into state environmental agencies, preferably in blue states that will be more likely to move money around to make up for funds that may or may not be lost from EPA in the next four years. We are still hiring in my state (mid-Atlantic), and an environmental science degree qualifies you for a ton of different job titles. The process is long and needlessly complicated (at least in my state), but it couldn’t hurt to go through it for any state that he’d be willing to live in.

      I would also agree that it’s a good idea to become a member of one or more professional groups. I have some experience with our local AWMA chapter, and they send out resumes of qualified candidates to the entire list-serv.

      Having job searched myself a few years ago, I loved when my older cousins just offered commiseration – I didn’t want advice, to be honest, but having them say, “It’s hard, right?” was really comforting.

      1. Mongoose*

        Thank you! I am definitely more of a “let’s just admit this sucks and have a nice meal/beer together” type of cousin to him these days, so it’s reassuring to hear that may just be all he needs from me right now :)

    9. Thinking Outside the Boss*

      The California Department of Water Resources is hiring for environmental scientists up through May 8th. As a state employee, I can tell you the pay isn’t great, but the benefits and weather are awesome! Just have him go to their Web site.

    10. Rogue*

      If he doesn’t mind traveling, he could look into being an environmental inspector for midstream projects. Tell him to check out ERM dot com.

  23. Construction Safety*

    Friday funny, posted here today because it has both HR and a relevant punchline:

    An HR manager was knocked down (tragically) by a bus and was killed. Her soul arrived at the Pearly Gates, where St.Peter welcomed her. “Before you get settled in” he said, “We have a little problem…you see, we’ve never had a HR manager make it this far before and we’re not really sure what to do with you.”

    “Oh, I see,” said the woman, “can’t you just let me in?”

    “Well, I’d like to,” said St Peter, “But I have higher orders. We’re instructed to let you have a day in hell and a day in heaven, and then you are to choose where you’d like to go for all eternity.”

    “Actually, I think I’d prefer heaven”, said the woman. “Sorry, we have rules…” at which St. Peter put the HR manager into the downward bound elevator.

    As the doors opened in Hell she stepped out onto a beautiful golf course. In the distance was a country club; around her were many friends, past fellow executives, all smartly dressed, happy, and cheering for her. They ran up and kissed her on both cheeks, and they talked about old times.

    They played a perfect round of golf and afterwards went to the country club where she enjoyed a superb steak and lobster dinner. She met the Devil (who was actually rather nice) and she had a wonderful night telling jokes and dancing.

    Before she knew it, it was time to leave. Everyone shook her hand and waved goodbye as she stepped into the elevator. The elevator went back up to heaven where St. Peter was waiting for her. “Now it’s time to spend a day in heaven,” he said.

    So she spent the next 24 hours lounging around on clouds, playing the harp and singing; which was almost as enjoyable as her day in Hell. At the day’s end St. Peter returned. “So,” he said, “You’ve spent a day in hell and you’ve spent a day in heaven”. “You must choose between the two.”

    The woman thought for a second and replied: “Well, heaven is certainly lovely, but I actually had a better time in hell. I choose Hell.”

    Accordingly, St. Peter took her to the elevator again and she went back down to hell. When the doors of the elevator opened she found herself standing in a desolate wasteland covered in garbage and filth. She saw her friends dressed in rags, picking up rubbish and putting it in old sacks. The Devil approached and put his arm around her.

    “I don’t understand,” stuttered the HR manager, “The other day I was here, and there was a golf course, and a country club. We ate lobster, and we danced and had a wonderful happy time. Now all there is, is just dirty wasteland of garbage and all my friends look miserable.”

    The Devil simply looked at her and smiled, “Yesterday we were recruiting you, today you’re staff.”

    4. Juli G.*

      The one thing I always find unbelievable about this joke is that executives would ever be happy to see the HR manager they previously worked with.

  24. BRR*

    Any tips on writing down a large amount of policy? I’m the first person to do what I do at my organization which has involved a lot of process creation. I’m now facing the huge task of creating the formal documentation for everything. I barely have time to work on this and it’s proven to be very labor intensive.

    I’m currently trying to complete it in small chunks but in the meantime I keep getting (valid) questions about things because there’s nothing to direct them to. Unfortunately I cannot delegate this or other parts of my workload.

    1. Sibley*

      Step 1: data dump. Write it all down, format, spelling, whatever doesn’t matter. If there’s a template you’re supposed to use, try to get it into that. It’ll be messy, that’s ok.
      Step 2: clean it up. One process at a time. Bonus points if it’s the process that’s generating a lot of questions, so you can point people to that rather than take the time yourself.
      Step 3: review/revise for clarity after you’ve gotten some feedback or just let it sit for a while.
      Step 4: periodically review/revise for process updates.

    2. OtterB*

      If it’s feasible to make the process documentation available as a work in progress, you could create an outline for it and fill in the chunks as people ask about them so you’re doing the most-needed parts first. That will give you something to point people to in the meantime.

      Won’t work if the document will have to be reviewed by someone (then you can’t have it keep changing), but if it’s just a matter of transferring the knowledge out of your head into a document, it might help.

      1. Parenthetically*

        Yes, an outline! Outlines are the only way I can survive writing multi-page anything.

      2. Amy*

        This is how I ended up doing something similar. I used the styles function in word to do the outline. I just started really high level. When I was working on one section and it made me think of something that needed to be added somewhere else, I would just jump up or down and add it to the outline. When I was done with the outline I just started writing it out section by section. It went pretty fast because I was just taking my blurbs and converting them into paragraphs instead of working from scratch.

    3. Professional Cat Lady*

      We hired a contractor to do this for us last fall. I’d suggest finding a template that’s as close as possible to what you’re trying to document policy-wise. Then you can comb through and change it accordingly. Your insurance company would be my first stop for something like that.

    5. Borgette*

      Start by documenting the things you get asked about the most. You’re already taking time to think through the answers, just start putting all of those explanatory emails into a folder. Later you can compile them into an informal FAQ-type document that can be publicly available until the formal documentation is ready. Looking at what gets asked will also help you setup the documentation with an outsider-friendly approach.

      After that it’s really important to have a big picture outline including all the major steps. i.e. – (receive custom teapot design, confirm order, 3D print custom teapot, quality test, redesign/reprint if needed, paint teapot, quality check, repaint if needed, notify customer, ship teapot) Seriously – give yourself a do-not-disturb day and get this done! Don’t get into how the steps work, or who is involved, or how long it takes – just focus on capturing the major step in the process. Do it however works for you – an outline, a flowchart, a process map – as long as you capture the full process. Your goal here is to avoid missing any critical steps in the process.

      Once you have your process laid out, chunk it out. Figure out which sections need which documents, how many files you’ll need to create, and how much work this documentation will take. Pay attention to how the files will need to interconnect, and how to efficiently organize the documentation. Setup the folders/document/trello board/process management tool that your documentation will be kept. Then, set a realistic pace for yourself. Maybe you can do the documentation for one section each week. Maybe it’s more like one document each week. As long as you keep moving forward, you’re making progress!

    6. Jesmlet*

      This is me right now because the external person they hired to do it did a crappy job. Actually twice me, once for an external license application, and now for an internal version. I outlined, decided how I wanted to format, then just tackled a little bit of a different section at a time. We have an external drive with a bunch of documents saved and I’ve saved everything there with the disclaimer that it’s a work in progress. It’s saved in sections right now but will eventually get pulled together in one big document.

    7. Ama*

      Oh, I’ve done this a bunch — either because I originated my role or I end up helping to redevelop processes and then have to update the old documents. What I try to do is write my first draft while I’m actually going through the steps myself — a lot of the policies I’m working on involve spreadsheets or particular software so writing things down as I’m going through the steps makes sure I describe screens and fields accurately and don’t forget things that I would think are obvious but which a new user would be confused by.

      But, yeah, you kind of just have to do things in small bits at a time when you have time. I’ve been lucky so far because I’ve been writing my current job’s processes down without anyone really needing it — but I’m hiring an admin in the next couple months so I’m just crossing my fingers I have enough of the standard processes finished to bring them up to speed.

    8. Sabine the Very Mean*

      As far as managing the workload, check out the pomodoro technique for productivity. I love it.

  25. EA*

    I would like to take a minute to bitch about admin professional day.

    I seriously dislike it, for all the reasons Alison has written about in the past. I told everyone in my office to please not do anything, because I don’t like being singled out. They pressed on why I would turn down presents, and I went on to explain how I find it condescending, and if they want to do something, work on giving everyone respect all year long. They begrudgingly agreed, so I considered it a success.

    Then a woman from my boss’ new department got me chocolate (I thought this was a nice, reaching out gesture, there has been a lot of tension with his new department); so my boss felt bad because she gave me something and he didn’t (he knew I didn’t want anything, this was about him) and forced someone else to buy me flowers, and then brought in bagels. It was just another of the many events which end up all about him, and his image.

    I guess it wasn’t the worst result, but like ugh, I tried to communicate and the day ended up being a show of how much you appreciate me for other people, when I asked you not to.

    What was everyone elses day like?

    1. Emily S.*

      I’m also an admin. I work for a small family-owned company (my office has ~30 people, mostly men). Here, nobody ever does anything for the day, or even acknowledges it, and that’s fine with me.

      Like you, I hate being singled out. I’m glad no one got me candy, because I’m trying to watch my weight.

    2. Bigglesworth*

      I don’t like Admin’s Day either, but I think my department handled it well this year. There wasn’t a card on my desk and I had honestly completely forgotten about it, but when I opened my email, I saw I had a digital $35 Amazon gift card. I don’t know if or what any other admin got, but I appreciated how low-key it was this year.

    3. EA 2*

      I almost want to schedule off for this every year. I come in to cards (with glitter- I hate glitter), the EDU department usually pool money and buy us something (me + one other EA) and then sing (yes, sing ) when they present it and then our bosses make a big production out of wanting to take us out to eat (so awkward every year), but it always is scheduled for another day because we have a lecture on the last Wednesday of every month.

    4. EA, Too*

      I am tempted to take this day off every year. Every year the EDU dept. pools money and buys me & the other EA a gift and they sing (yes, sing) when they present it. Our bosses make a big show out of scheduling to take us to lunch (we don’t go on the actual day because we always have a lecture on the last Wed. of the month) and this year I was given a card with tons of glitter ( I hate glitter- it gets on everything).

      I would be perfectly happy if they just did nothing.

      2. zora*

        Wow, I’m feeling even more grateful for my company’s approach after seeing some of these, yikes! My sympathies!

    5. Anxa*

      One of the things I don’t like about Administrative Assistants day is that it seems to be an appreciation day divorced from the actual job duties. Lots of professions have appreciation days, but they seem to focus more on appreciating the role, the profession, the skills, the benefits it brings society, etc.

      Admin Day seems more like a holiday that doesn’t acknowledge the actual work and skills, but is acknowledging an under-appreciation. It’s like it’s built on the underappreciation. Which in some places is true, which means you probably should be having a holiday, but rather giving people professional development opportunities, raises, etc. And in companies where the administrative assistants already out earn a lot of their coworkers, seem appreciated as they are offered full-time jobs and benefits, it seems kind of weird to single them out instead of others.

      1. zora*

        ” It’s like it’s built on the underappreciation. ”

        Exactly! That is so annoying. It feels a bit patronizing, no matter how much people try to be nice about it.

    6. Elizabeth West*

      Since I don’t have a job, it’s just like any other day. :P

      I never minded it at Exjob, because they already paid us well and we got a $50 gift card. I wasn’t about to complain about that. But I don’t want flowers, or chocolate, or bagels, or some tacky little thing. Just pay me well and don’t treat me like an indentured servant.

    7. look_a_squirrel!*

      I give my admins a nice certificate expressing appreciation and granting a few hours of additional PTO time. No big fanfare, just a simple acknowledgment in a currency that they love to receive.

    8. Awkward Interviewee*

      At OldJob we had an admin for several years who was terrible – both because he was terrible at his job, and also a passive aggressive obnoxious person. When admin professionals day rolled around the first year, we didn’t even realize it was that day, and so didn’t do anything. He then passive aggressively announced to us that it was admin professionals day. (I guess to make us feel bad or to fish for compliments?) So then the next day a coworker had to bring in treats and a card for us to give to him. It was so bad and awkward.

    9. Marisol*

      We got our usual bouquet of flowers, and this year had a lunch catered in with just the admin in attendance, and got a $75 Amazon gift card. Not sure why it wasn’t for $100–that’s what I’ve gotten at other firms. I can see why someone would be uncomfortable with individuals in the company giving gifts, but I’ve never found the day condescending. Forced and Hallmark-y, yes. A couple people asked me why I got flowers and I laughed and said something like, “because it’s my special day and I’m so wonderful! Didn’t you get me a present?” and that’s generally my attitude. But I might not like to receive little gifties from random people I support, as though I were an elementary school teacher.

      1. Marisol*

        Ha ha what I meant about my attitude was that my attitude toward admin professional’s day was irreverent, so I make jokes about it. Not that my attitude toward my coworkers was that I am wonderful and deserve presents.

        Although, I am, and I do…

      2. zora*

        Your lunch reminded me that what my sister always said she hated most about Admin Day at her former company, is that they threw a whole Admin Day Lunch event.. and made the admins do all the work to organize and set up the party… and clean it up… Excuse me while I do a huge Liz Lemon eyeroll.

        Again, I’m super grateful my current job didn’t pull that nonsense.

        1. Marisol*

          Ha ha ha I did notice our receptionist start to pack away the leftovers and I told her to stop and tell the interns/day porters to handle it, which she did.

          That is so…vulgar though. But not surprising.

    10. Anon today...and tomorrow*

      I’m not an admin but there was an email sent to the staff reminding us of the day and that we should send the admin in our office a gift or a card. She’s a very nice woman… but only to certain staff. To others (myself included) she’s rude and dismissive and goes out of her way to avoid interaction with them. The person who sent the email reminder gets the nice side of our admin. Blech!

    11. Lily in NYC*

      I find it so demeaning! Our HR makes everyone in our dept. sign a card for us and then attaches it to a gift. I asked her to skip giving my dept. the card this year and she was SO offended. I explained to her that it makes me uncomfortable to have my coworkers write platitudes to me and that I don’t celebrate my birthday for similar reasons, but she took it very personally. She bitched to my boss but my boss understood once I explained the reasons many admins don’t appreciate this fake holiday. My sister just tells her EA to take off a day of her choosing and her EA loves it.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        And I’ve written this here before – but one year they took up a collection for a gift and I was mortified that people who make much less money than I do were expected to chip in for a starbucks gift card (which is a completely useless gift for me – I gave it away).

        1. EA*

          HAHAHAH

          The other issue is people not getting that high level admin jobs can be lucrative. I just hate the fake appreciation. If your boss genuinely appreciates you, that is great, but traditionally admins are under appreciated. I don’t think making up some platitudes and giving you trinkets is going to solve the root of the problem.

          1. Lily in NYC*

            Yes yes yes!! And don’t you hate it when you get this “compliment”: “Oh, we know you are really the one who runs this place and that nothing would get done without you”. It’s just so fake and is usually from someone trying to flatter me into doing a favor. I always reply that it’s simply not true and that I would be fired within 2 hours if I tried to do the type of work my boss and teammates do (I have no idea how to do financial modeling or create crazy complicated excel sheets full of formulas and pivot tables).

            1. EA, Too / EA 2*

              Yes, I hate that compliment. It might take a few weeks to get the new “trained” (haha) but I have no illusions about being irreplaceable.

        2. Marisol*

          Chip in for a Starbuck’s card? I’ve only ever gotten a Starbucks card in a token amount. How much was it for, if you don’t mind me asking? Anything over twenty bucks seems like a waste to me–I’d rather have a giftcard to Amazon or Amex.

            1. Marisol*

              Dang. That’s a high-roller Starbuck’s card. And I would hate to think of someone who made less than me coughing up cash for it.

              1. Lily in NYC*

                It was a pretty large division – so it was probably 50 people giving money (and a few of the bigger bosses probably gave $20…).

        3. CheeryO*

          Yeah, I’m on the other side of this dynamic, and it’s a sore spot for me. No one’s taking up a collection for me for Christmas, my birthday, and a special holiday, and I make less than our admin does. Our newer staff make significantly less. On top of that, our admin is straight-up bad at her job (not for lack of skill but for lack of trying) and is not a particularly nice person.

          1. Lily in NYC*

            This is such a huge part of why I don’t like this stupid “holiday”.

    12. LizB*

      I’m not an admin, but at our department’s all-hands meeting (which fell a couple of days before AP Day) we made sure that someone gave our admin a shout-out during our normal shout-out time for her great work… and then a half-dozen other people also chimed in to give her shout-outs because our admin is just that awesome. I hope it didn’t make her feel too singled out, since they were all sincere compliments/expressions of gratitude, and she does regularly get shout-outs and informal thank-yous at other times of the year.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        I think it really just depends on the person. It would absolutely mortify me – and the worst part is that I wouldn’t feel comfortable letting you know that it embarrassed me because I wouldn’t want to seem ungracious.

      2. TL -*

        our admin-type person (she just got a promotion) is amazing and I tell her so pretty frequently (and with lots of embellishment, but we’re very jokey and similar age/levels). But that’s because she takes away all the work I don’t want to do which usually involves nasty paperwork and talking to people, so it’s me popping in to say, “oh this! I don’t know how to this! Do you know who to talk to?” and then she tells me not to worry about it and then three days later she emails me to tell me it got taken care of.

        Magic. Pure, blissful, magic.

    13. Morning Glory*

      My HR department throws an all-day event with a “professional development workshop” at the end. I went last year and it was basically about how to self-care so you don’t burn out in your lifetime of serving others. That seemed like basically an extension of the spirit for the entire day.

      It was so different from what I had expected I ended up leaving early and crying in the bathroom. I suggested to HR we do a professional development workshop similar to events every year for interns and for female managers on women’s day – with advice on how to get promoted, what skills/training/projects etc. are most important but they never responded, and kept the same “professional development” speaker this year.

      This year I skipped the events. However, my immediate supervisor got me a bouquet of flowers with a nice note, which touched me more than I expected. Even though I’m not a fan of the day, I thought it was sweet of her.

      1. Been There, Done That*

        I hear you. My job is six-of-one, half-dozen-of-another, and because of the “admin” aspect my manger treats me as if (a) advancement isn’t part of the picture and (b) even if it were I wouldn’t think of advancement. The not-admin part demands brains, education, knowledge, planning, and thinking ahead, all of which my boss ignores. This is at a company that treats “the admin” like a separate species from “the team.” I’ve been sent out of a required training because the real admin went to get lunch and somebody had to answer the phones. Being a hybrid is very very uncomfortable at times.

    14. zora*

      I find it so eyerolly, but this was my first one at this job. The corporate office sent everyone a card signed by the BigBoss and an internal gift certificate for $25. So, we’re allowed to spend it on anything we want, food, a gift, put it toward something else. And then we attach the certificate with our expense report and get reimbursed the $25.

      Like you, not the worst result, but meh. I am glad they didn’t make a big deal about it, and it’s nice to have the choice to spend it on whatever I want.

      But OTOH: I would have rather had that $8000/year back (I took a paycut when I was hired on permanently last year).. (or better health insurance, or 5 million other things) … and the fact that I have to send in an expense report to get the $ is actually adding another 30-45 minutes of work to my plate, when I already have to do multiple expense reports for other people as part of my job. And $25 is only a little less than my hourly rate…..

      So, yeah… Trying to fake enthusiasm about it wasn’t easy.. but now I’m trying to just Let It Goooo and just appreciate that at least I got something and not get too annoyed about it.

    15. Spice for this*

      Admin professional day – I don’t care for it. It’s like any other day to me. I am working a temp admin job and my supervisor gave me a nice card. I do appreciate it since she notices my hard work.
      Years ago while I worked at a large company, the HR manager took all the admin out to lunch at a nice restaurant. I did have a nice time and appreciated it.

    16. New Bee*

      My husband is not an admin, but his company bought him gifts anyway and he got two gift cards! Meanwhile, only thing I’ve ever gotten from my job is a birthday card meant for someone else…

    17. Been There, Done That*

      My firm has an online career development site. It has a separate “admin” tab. For administrative people who want to stay right where they are doing the same thing forever, it’s ideal.

  26. S.*

    I have a final interview for a job I’m excited about at the university where I work. When I applied, there was a spot on the application for salary requirements. I remember filling it out with something at least $5k higher than what I make now, but I have completely forgotten what I put there. If I’m offered the job, how do I go about negotiating salary when I don’t remember what I put there?

    1. KiteFlier*

      Did you apply using an online system? If so, you can most likely log in and view your application to see what it was.

    2. Beezus*

      You’ve presumably learned a lot more about the job than you knew when you applied, so it doesn’t really matter. Give your range based on what you know about the job now. If you ask for $44K and they counter with saying “You put $42K on your application!”, your response is that you’ve learned a lot more about the role since you applied and you’ve done some additional research on the market rate, and $44K makes sense.

  27. Anna*

    Does anyone have any advice about how to present yourself as a strong candidate when you’re more a middle of the pack candidate? I’m trying to help my sister apply for internships this summer. I work in a creative field where projects were more important than grades, and she’s in a scientific field where grades count a lot. Her grades aren’t awful, but their not amazing either and I’m not sure how to advise her. I think she has a stronger resume than she thinks she does, but she’s definitely getting discouraged when she’s just shy of the GPA requiremtn and is disqualified from the application process. Her school also only caters to students with stellar GPA’s. Any advice about how to apply or where to look when you’re an average applicant would be most appreciated.

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      Any relevant experience is good; you don’t have to aim for top tier internships. If she’s at a large public university, she can talk to her professors and find one who will take her as a summer lab assistant. The pay’s usually pretty decent for a summer job. Her academic advisor probably has a list of professors willing to take on students that he could share. Even with less than stellar grades, there should still be opportunities. If she had a course that was particularly interesting, or that she did well in, she could also approach that professor directly and ask. Professors LOVE it when students take an interest in their work.

      If she’s at a small or private college, ask about exchange programs. Some smaller colleges have programs that facilitate their students working at larger universities over the summer. If no such program exists, she could contact and advisor or student coordinator in the department she’s interested in directly and ask politely if any faculty members are looking for undergraduate summer assistants.

      I know we all cringe at the ‘gumption’ described in some of the letters here. But getting a summer lab assistant job at a research university is one specific area where it is still rewarded. Make sure she does her research and is actually interested in the work of the professors, though.

    2. Anxa*

      She may not be able to get an internship at all. I had a poor GPA and I didn’t qualify for some of them, and I couldn’t compete for those I did qualify for. I’ve since worked out some health issues, but GPA is forever and you really only get one chance at it.

      What is her work experience like? It can be hard to find student friendly jobs getting science experience, so see if she could qualify for any student jobs TA-ing lab course or preferably working as a student lab tech. Check to see if any local high schools have employers looking to start STEM pipelines there, they may consider her for a similar job. The narrative is that the country is desperate for scientists when you’re K12 and in undergrad, and then post-grad life is dominated by how competitive it is, so see if there are any programs or jobs on the feeding the pipeline side.

      Keep in mind she may be competing with PhD’s and MS holders for lab assistant jobs, so it’s best for her to get some sort of experience while she’s still a student.

      1. katamia*

        Yeah, I know there are certain grad schools I’ll never get into solely because of my GPA (thanks, college depression). However, there may also be more flexibility at some places regarding GPA than it looks like, similar to how some jobs say they want X years of experience but actually they’re open to people with less if the candidate is otherwise strong. Anna, I don’t know how long each application takes, but if they’re relatively short, I’d recommend applying for at least some of the ones (that she really wants) that claim to have a minimum GPA requirement that she may not meet and then writing a killer cover letter (and having killer recommendations if these internships want recomnendations). Sometimes the rules are actual rules, and other times they’re suggestions and guidelines.

        1. Anxa*

          Yes! She absolutely shouldn’t give up, but I think it’s important to try to capitalize on the student status now and not depend on going through the usual channels, which may be gated.

          Yeah, I really wish I had applied to more of the ones where I was on the borderline.

          Even now I have a hard time assessing when to ignore the ‘minimum requirements’ on job applications.

    3. Juli G.*

      What’s on her resume? When I did HR for STEM fields, lots of managers preferred a candidate that was at 3.25 GPA but also was on the football team or softball team or president of the sorority/fraternity/professional organization or worked 20 hours a week at the Dairy Queen during the school year to the 3.95 candidate who just did school. They were looking for well-rounded people that multi-tasked.

    4. TL -*

      Does she have good relationships with any of her professors? I didn’t apply for my internships – one, I just asked a new professor if he was taking any new students (he was); the other, a professor at my school told me to pick a professor from her grad school that I was interested in and she’d put us in contact.

      The most important thing is that she’s interested in the science and she can talk intelligently about what she’s interested in and why. She should try and build relationships with her professors and apply for any internship she’s qualified for.

      1. idek*

        This one. I graduated with a 2.9 in my STEM field, but with six internships (… health issues happened so undergrad took A While; also hence the 2.9) and got into a top-15 STEM PhD program straight out of undergrad. I’ve also interned multiple places with a 3.0 cutoff, because I knew people there.

        (For instance, a national laboratory couldn’t hire me because they had a very strict 3.0 cutoff, so my adviser covered my accommodations & travel & paid me & I was technically a “guest” at the lab.)

  28. Definitely NOT a T-Rex*

    Hey folks!
    Long story short: I’m trying to transition into a very closely related field and start a new career within that field. I’m applying to positions out-of-state in areas that I’d always wanted to live, but I’m applying to in-state jobs as well. I’m encountering some of the usual challenges so far (in that I’m assuming local candidates will be favored over me for the out-of-state jobs). Nothing I can do about that but persist.
    However, on a local in-state level, I’ve recently started worrying about a different challenge. The problem is that my current town (and general geographic region within the state) has….a not so positive reputation. Stereotypes about the people who live here are strong, negative, and—most of the time, I’ve found—are unfortunately accurate. I’ve never lived here before I started my current job, and now I’m concerned about being stereotyped as an applicant as well.
    The things I have going for me are that my resume makes it clear that I’ve never lived her before and that I don’t have some of the stereotypical qualities of local residents (for example, I am highly educated whereas the local population tends to be barely educated). However, I am still fearing that the moment in-state hiring managers see my location, they may have a negative gut reaction that clouds my candidacy. (I can’t emphasize the negative reputation of my town’s residents enough, especially politically.)
    Has anyone been through something like this before, or is this not really a “thing”? Any tips for navigating this tricky issue?

    1. Fabulous*

      Is there a metro area near your location where you can say you’re from? For example, you could put “Detroit Metro Area” if you’re in a not-so-great neighborhood within a certain radius from the city. Or just say “Chicago” instead of a certain neighborhood within the city. Or if you’re in a little podunk town near to a larger, more well-known/well-regarded town, use that one.

      1. Definitely NOT a T-Rex*

        That’s an interesting suggestion I had not considered.

        Hmm. The closest metro is ~2h45m away, and the towns close to mine tend to carry the same reputations (as a regional generalization, I think). I’ll have to think more about where the fine line is between minimizing stereotypes and blatant lying on my application.

        1. Fabulous*

          Has including your location/city/region on your resume garnered negative results? If so, maybe it would be better to just leave off your location altogether. Especially if you plan on relocating, you can perhaps address your location situation in your cover letter.

          1. Definitely NOT a T-Rex*

            So, within the past year alone, I’ve had to make several work-related trips to the two largest metro areas in my state (including the one closest to me). In both places, the subject of where I’m from somehow came up–and both times, my response elicited disgust from the people I was speaking with. I didn’t think anything of it at the time, but as I’ve had to start anticipating employers’ perspectives while preparing my application materials, that concern has increasingly grown.

            I’m still pretty early in my job search and have yet to be invited for an interview with anyone, so I don’t know how this is actually coming across. I do think that taking my current location off of my resume is probably an excellent option to consider at this point. If there’s going to be some prejudice, I suppose it can wait so that they can consider it within the context of my actual interviewing skills and interpersonal vibe.

            Thanks for the advice!

            1. Rainy, PI*

              When people ask where I’m from, I tend to say “most recently X” (being the large and amazing and wonderful city I lived in for 6 years before I moved here) and at that point if they press I say “originally [terrible armpit where I was born and raised]”. You could just reverse it. “Oh, I’m originally from X”. It might not fly in a place that isn’t widely known to attract residents from all over the country, but worth a try in conversation at least?

              1. Definitely NOT a T-Rex*

                Hmm, that’s another good strategy that I’ll have to keep in my back pocket. Thanks!

            2. Thlayli*

              If someone asks me where I’m from I would usually reply where I grew up and then say where I live now. E.g. “I’m from Mercury but I’ve been living in Saturn for the last 2 years.”

    2. Ripley*

      As someone who hires in practically every corner of the country at a company based in a highly educated/progressive metro area, we wouldn’t discount someone specifically for being from a specific geographic location. Your education level and experience listed on your resume would most likely be enough to separate you from the reputation you are looking to avoid.

      Quality candidates and employees are not region specific, and good hiring managers and HR departments realize that and won’t make those generalizations.

  29. Windchime*

    So my old boss at exjob has been a terrible bully for a couple of years. I finally left because he was gathering ammunition to fire me (as he had done to several others). Apparently there has been some kind of investigation and……nothing. It looks like he is going to get to keep his job as far as any of us (current and former employees) can tell.

    Depressing as hell.

      1. Windchime*

        It worked, Elizabeth. She was fired today. (I changed the pronouns in my original post to make the situation less identifiable, but now there is no need because she is GONE. So whatever you did, worked!

        1. Anony Oz*

          Wow – I feel for her, but actions have consequences. Reckon she’ll learn? Or be bitter?

        2. Elizabeth West*

          WOO HOO!!!
          *turns on karma machine again; sets to Good; aims at self* Hey, worth a shot! ;)

          I don’t want to be mean to people but bullies sometimes need a big wake-up call.

    3. LKW*

      Oh been there. Eventually one of two things will happen: Person will retire or someone comes in who doesn’t allow that kind of nonsense in the workplace.

      A ex-boss of mine who was a terrible bully is moving from job to job because of her attitude and her flexible ethics. I hate to admit it but it’s nice to see her struggle.

  30. JobSeeker017*

    Supporting and competing with a friend for job interviews

    A former co-worker turned very good friend and I are both actively searching for jobs.

    I am eight years older and have a high-level position on my resume with quantifiable accomplishments. She is younger with a series of steady government positions. We’re both in the same field but with different specializations.

    We meet up at least twice a month to talk job searching, interview prep, and gripe about life and bills. On Tuesday, we each brought our laptops and conducted a side-by-side search. I’m focused on private businesses, while she wants to apply to municipalities, universities, and hospitals.

    Sometimes we apply for the same position, usually unknown to us until one is invited to an interview and mentions it to the other. I often feel badly when I’m contacted and she isn’t.

    My questions are: What should I do to alleviate my guilt? Should we compare resumes and cover letters? Is this situation so common that it’s understood that occasional competition will arise, and it’s best to limit discussion to avoid upsetting our friendship?

    Please share your thoughts and experiences, AAM commentators.

    1. Shamy*

      I guess the thing I tell myself is jobs are not boyfriends. It isn’t a zero sum game. You being contacted isn’t causing them to not contact her. I had a situation where my job was hiring on a lucrative contract. There were 3 of us they wanted to hire, but we had to go through the hiring process like everyone else. Would I have been bummed if I wasn’t hired? Absolutely. But I would also have been thrilled for my other 2 coworkers. Just remember neither one of you is “stealing” the job from the other.

    2. Shiara*

      Applying to the same positions as friends in the same field, and some people getting responses and other people not happens. You’ve been in the workforce longer, you and she have different specialisations, and different focuses. There’s no need to feel badly when you’re contacted and she isn’t, just be sympathetic about the vagaries of jobseeking.

      I really don’t think you should try to compare resumes and cover letters to “alleviate your guilt.” It risks making a bigger deal out of the competition than it needs to be, and could come across as seriously condescending. And even if you do that, you may still apply to the same place, and you get a call back and she doesn’t, so it’s not like it’ll really make the guilt go away.

      Not to mention that you’re both looking for slightly different things, with slightly different backgrounds, so it’s really not alarming that you’re getting different results. If she asked you for feedback at some point, you could agree to look over her resume and cover letter to see if there’s anything she could do to position herself more strongly, but as it sounds, I don’t think you need to proactively do anything. I don’t even think you need to limit discussion, unless you’ve noticed that it seems to make her more upset, in which case steering the conversation away from jobhunting might be a kindness. But overall, I think your feelings of guilt are yours to manage, and her feelings of disappointment (if she has any) are hers.

      1. JobSeeker017*

        Shiara:

        Thanks for your comments.

        Up until now, I have refrained from discussing any overlapping job interests we’ve had. We’ve run into two awkward situations, when we’ve both applied, at least one of use has been contacted, and then interviewed. One position saw both of us interviewed. I found the municipality underfunded and unprofessional, while she saw it as her “perfect” next step. She came in second place in the hiring process and is still a bit touchy about it.

        She has significantly less interview experience than I do and believes every job to which she applies could be a “dream job.” I am much more skeptical and take Alison’s view that interviews are two-way streets seriously.

        Right now, she’s applying to one to three positions a month, whereas I am applying on average to five to eight job openings each week. We have different strategies, but I still wonder if I can do anything to help her more.

        Your last line summarizes ideally how things should be handled, but I don’t know if two anxious job seekers with limited funds who are growing increasingly frustrated will be able to adhere to it. I hope so, for the sake of our friendship.

        1. Shiara*

          That sounds pretty stressful, and you definitely have my sympathies. I do think avoiding job-search discussions would be the best bet, the most help I think you can offer is mentioning how helpful you find AAM advice, and linking an article, unless she outright asks for feedback on something specific.

          Good luck, with both the job search and the friendship.

        2. Thlayli*

          It sounds like it might be good for your friendship to stop the job search meet ups. She may be starting to interpret them as nagging. Though I may be basing this on an experience I had when I thought I was helping a family member with his job search and he thought I was nagging him and pushing him to do stuff he didn’t want to do.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Do you think she should feel guilty if she gets a call or only that you should? I’m willing to bet you’re being way harder on yourself!

    4. Chaordic One*

      When I’ve been in this position I’ve never felt guilty about it and I hope my friends never felt guilty either. I don’t think they did. I’ve always felt that the potential employer would, hopefully, select the best candidate for the job.

      Usually, I find that when I’m applying for the same job as friend, that we can compare notes. Once, a friend of mine who interviewed for a particular position, gave me a heads up about a test using a specialized software. Although I had never before used that exact software, I had used similar ones and I “googled” how to use the software for the particular task. I aced the test and was offered the position, but turned it down because the job would have been a step down in pay for me.

    5. Thlayli*

      I think what’s uncommon here is the level of support you are giving each other.

      Your guilt is irrational. I say this not to insult you but in hopes that you will actually take a step back and look st it and realise it is irrational. You have more experience than her, of course you will be considered a better hire than her sir positions that need experience. Guilt Is irrational
      In that situation.

      I also think it would be a very bad idea to e.g. Help her with cover letters if that is what you are considering. The reason you are getting more calls is because you have more experience not because your cover letter is better. At best helping her will he ineffective and at worst it will be noticed and comsidered possible plagiarism by hiring managers.

      I think you are doing everything you reasonably can. The best thing you can do is figure out why you feel guilty and try to solve that. recognising it is irrational is only the first step.

  31. ruff orpington*

    Might be a silly question… but how do you end a meeting when no one is physically leaving the space?

    I’m currently doing a bit of freelance work, and often find myself working out of places like coffee shops (free wifi and convenient space to meet clients). I’ve had a couple of meetings set up that were productive, efficient meetings… but then there was an awkwardness in leaving, as both people planned on staying at the coffee shop to do their own work. Any recommended norms here? Do just plan on going to a different place after a meeting? Do you shift to a separate table?

    1. Ann Furthermore*

      It would be sort of weird and off-putting for both people to stay at the same table and work, plus it would probably be kind of crowded too. At least it would be for me; I like to have a little space. I don’t think it needs to be awkward. When you’re done, you can say, “OK, I think we’ve gotten through everything we needed to discuss,” (or whatever). “Thanks so much for meeting with me. I see an empty table over there, so I’m going to go claim it so I can finish up some other stuff I’ve been working on.” Or, if it’s crowded, ask the person if they mind if you share their table until another one opens up, or if it was “your” table to begin with, offer them the same thing.

    2. Iris Carpenter*

      After re-iterating normal business: Decisions, action assignments & next meeting date, I simple say “Meeting Closed”. If people want to hang about or not, that’s fine but the meeting business has concluded.

    3. theletter*

      “It looks like that was all we needed to discuss today – I’m going to stick around and work on stuff and things.”
      “Sounds great, me too.”

      And now you have someone to watch your stuff when you go to the bathroom.

  32. Pup Seal*

    Have two interviews today. Woo! One of them I actually didn’t apply for. I applied for another place and was ultimately rejected because I was too qualified for the job, but the hiring manager still had my resume on file. Her husband needs to hire a replacement at his company (the employee is moving away), and she dug through the resumes she had and gave him mine.

    It’s at a financial firm, so my question is, is there a way during the interview to see if the firm follows ethical practices with their clients? I know people who have worked at financial firms but quit because their employers were terrible to their clients. I don’t want to get hired at a place that is unethical, so I’m wondering if there are warning signs during the interview to look for.

    2. fposte*

      That’s going to depend on what you consider unethical, in the financial services world; there’s a whole lot of stuff that is, IMHO, unethical that is also SOP in a lot of finance when it comes to fees, priorities, and clarity. As a customer, I’d want to know if they follow the fiduciary standard even if they’re not legally bound to it–if they don’t have to choose what’s best for the client’s money, that to me is unethical. If they handle investments, do they put people in load funds, take commissions, and also charge a high AUM fee (I think you can be ethical and charge an AUM fee, but all three, no)? Do they push annuities and insurance products, with high surrender fees and high commissions and complicated rules that their customers don’t understand?

  33. T3k*

    Not much of an update, but I have a phone interview next week. I just have to figure out which job they wanted to talk to me about because I applied to 2 different jobs with them in the past and they didn’t say which one in the interview request.

  34. Anooooooooooon*

    I just need to grumble. They’re hiring for a new position that is going to be an EA who will also organize the meetings we have on a regular basis. They’re not just in-office meetings, they’re like mini conferences with our management team. Right now I organize these events and it’s a big part of my job and a bit part of what I like about my job. So this new person will be taking over pretty much what I love best about my job – and management doesn’t know what tasks I’ll get to replace this significant part of my workload.

    I met with my manager yesterday for my annual review and while (yay!) she gave me the steps I need to take to get a promotion (which is exactly what I asked for) I think the steps are indications that along with losing the event planning piece, that it is time for me to move on. She wants me to take more of a lead on two parts of my job that I don’t hate, but don’t feel any kind of excitement about.

    Another step was “wear more makeup” basically. I swing between wearing nothing or almost nothing most days to occasionally wearing a bit more or a full face for fancy meeting days. I just need to whine that I really hate that “wearing more makeup” is tied into my ability to get a promotion. The patriarchy sucks.

    1. JobSeeker017*

      Anooooooooooon:

      I’m sorry to learn that the more enjoyable parts of your job are being removed and that your boss is critiquing your make-up preferences.

      How a person chooses to adorn his/her/their face should have no effect on their qualifications for a promotion.

      For your upcoming job search, I would recommend you read some of Alison’s wonderful older posts about specific job boards and personalizing your cover letter. I have found those posts, especially the cover letter examples, incredibly beneficial.

      Again, my sympathies.

    2. Sadsack*

      What is the point of wearing more makeup? Do you look sleepy without it? Does she want her team to appear more polished? I would hate this and ask exactly why it matters.

      1. Anooooooooooon*

        She wants me to look “more consistent” but in the context of the comment, it means to swing toward wearing more makeup, which is hilarious seeing as she herself only ever wears mascara at best.

        1. Anooooooooooon*

          And what makes it even more confusing is that I’m planning to get a sideshave done on my hair next week, and I ran it past her to make sure it’d be okay and she was like “Totally fine, go you!”

      2. SCAnonibrarian*

        I would push back on the makeup thing too. ‘What specifically are you wanting to achieve with my appearance that is currently unprofessional?’ Because unless they put makeup on the dress code or needs improvement lists for men and women, it shouldn’t be a requirement for anyone.

        1. Anooooooooooon*

          I did try and her comment was just “consistency” which is still pretty frustrating.

          I’ve accepted that this is not a battle I’m going to win, nor is it really the hill I want to die on, but I’m just so over the patriarchy. I own makeup and love wearing it – sometimes. I hate having to get up in the morning to put it on every.single.day. I look fine without it.

          1. GG*

            That’s where I’d be very tempted to be *consistent* about not wearing any makeup at all. But if you haven’t yet decided that it is time to move on, and while you’re there you do want to follow their steps to promotion, I would totally understand not wanting to take that stance.

            1. Parcae*

              I actually think– in this case, anyway– that no makeup ever could work. I never wear makeup, not even for board meetings, and no one at work has ever said a thing to me about it. But for the women who DO wear makeup regularly? Don’t you dare skip a day unless you want to field constant inquiries about your health, stress level, or sleep patterns.

              Since Anoooon says she loves wearing makeup on occasion, that solution would be a real bummer. But it’s possible that the boss’s line about consistency is genuine.

              1. Thlayli*

                Yeah it sounds like you are assuming you know what she means rather than listening to what she actually said.

                It wouldn’t bother me personally but I can see someone being slightly taken aback if someone wore no or little makeup some days and then came in in full “going out” makeup other days.

                I never wear makeup to work. In oldjob I used to wear makeup to fancy meetings only but that was it.

                Rather than assume she means makeup every day you could try asking her straight out will never wearing makeup help with the consistency thing.

          2. AMPG*

            This sucks a lot, but I would try to find a look that’s easy but clearly shows some effort. I do some concealer under the eyes, eyeliner, and a swipe of lipstick. It takes two minutes in the parking lot every morning, but makes a huge difference in how polished I look. I think something like that would be great as a baseline and stop the complaints.

    3. No Make Up Any Day*

      I wish men had to wear make-up for an entire summer. Especially those that think make-up is a requirement in order to get promoted. The lack of make-up does not hinder my ability to do my job. However if I did wear make-up, I would be spending a lot more time checking to mirror to make sure I did not have smears or if lipstick was on my teeth. Lucky for me, my supervisor thinks enough of my skills and worth ethic that nothing has ever been said about my not wearing make-up. I have super sensitive skin so if had to wear make-up in order to get promoted, I would never get promoted.

      1. kitkat*

        I’ve cut back on makeup as the weather heats up for that reason. No matter how “waterproof” or “long-lasting” eye makeup claims to be, if I go too long without a mirror check I can start resembling Alice Cooper on a humid day. I’d say that’s a heck of a lot less professional than skipping eyeliner and mascara.

      2. Rocketship*

        I haven’t worn makeup for…. hmm, years. And when I started CurrentJob, I was kinda prepared to be talked to about it (based on previous experiences). I spent my first several months rehearsing various conversations about it in my head, settling on roughly the following:

        Male Manager: “Why don’t you wear makeup, Rocketship?”
        Me: “Why don’t YOU wear makeup, Male Manager?”
        MM: “Well, because I’m a man…”
        Me: “Uh-huh. I see. So you’re saying job expectations are different for me specifically because I’m a woman?”
        *raised eyebrow*
        *significant stare*
        *awkward silence*
        *trophy for Feministing So Good*
        *Wikipedia entry for Rocketship: Fighting The Good Fight*
        *confetti, parades, adoring throng carries Rocketship out on shoulders, exit left pursued by bear, etc*

        Of course, I live in a notoriously liberal area, so it has never once come up. Probably for the best. There have been plenty of other opportunities to feminist at people in my office.

        Anyhow, Anooooooooooon: I agree with the other commenters here that if ‘consistency’ is the issue, the ideal response (in my mind) is ‘consistently’ minimal effort in the makeup department. Which sucks if you enjoy occasionally going all-out…. but maybe that just means you get to save your A-Game makeup for going out on the town where it will be appreciated, and not evaluated for ‘consistency’ (seriously wtf).

        2. nonegiven*

          Well, one day I looked in a mirror and saw a nearly dime sized bead of foundation covered sweat rolling down my cheek. I went home and threw it all out.

      3. Chaordic One*

        My GBF tells me that he wears makeup, although it is not obvious. His big thing is wearing concealer under his eyes and then some kind of lotion that keeps him from having a shiny nose.

    4. Tempest*

      Wow, I never wear any so I’d be so screwed at your company. I’m so sorry that you have to deal with that :( I support women who feel their best in makeup and who feel they don’t want or need it equally. Because it’s their decision and about them feeling confident and at their best. Not about anyone else! What you do with your face is your business unless you’re constantly scratching your nose with your middle finger or joining the eye-rolling Olympic games. Unless she’d tell a man to Botox his crow’s feet or something it also seems really sexist.

  35. Fabulous*

    I just finished a day-and-a-half training on giving New Employee Orientation training. We did teach-backs yesterday and I supposedly knocked it out of the park. While I have done training in the past, I am not a trainer in my role, yet I performed WAY better than the actual trainers in the class. The person leading the class barely had any feedback for me other than to say she lost track of time because I was so engaging. Not sure what it means for me, but I’m at least now “qualified” to be the backup trainer… :)

  36. LBK*

    Settle a debate: when should you tell your current manager about applying for an internal position? My boyfriend says pretty much as soon as you apply if not as soon as you decide to apply before you even do it, but I think it’s fine to wait at least up until the interview (in-person, not including the phone screen).

    1. Tuckerman*

      For an internal position, right away. The hiring committee will almost certainly approach your manager at some point.
      Also, your manager might be willing to advocate for you proactively. Which would increase the likelihood of you getting an interview.

      1. Thinking Outside the Boss*

        +1!

        As a manager, if one of my direct reports is good and wants to move internally, I will always advocate on his or her behalf well before the interviews. I’m always happy to help good people!

    2. the gold digger*

      Everywhere I have worked, you have had to tell your boss before you could even talk to the department, but if that is not a requirement where you are, I would wait until at least the interview. Why alert your boss to your job hunting any earlier than necessary?

      1. LBK*

        Our policy just says you have to tell once you make it to the interview stage. If you don’t even make it that far you never have to tell them. So this is more about professional courtesy, I suppose.

        1. the gold digger*

          I can see that. It would totally depend on my relationship with my boss. Previous boss – no way would I have told him if I didn’t have to. Current boss – I for sure would tell him and I know he would not hold it against me in any way. (Which is why I wouldn’t even be looking – a good boss has a price far above rubies.)

    3. sheepla*

      Rule at my former very large company was you had to tell your manager when you were granted on interview.

    4. Sadsack*

      My company has rules about this and yours might, too. We must tell our manager before applying for another internal position. You should check your employee manual or ask someone in HR before you submit any applications.

      2. LBK*

        I should’ve specified – I did check already and our company policy just says you have to tell them if you get an interview, not before you apply.

    5. Mongoose*

      Rule at my company is that for a position in your own department but with a different supervisor, you should tell your boss if you are granted an interview. For a position that is with a different department, you need to tell them if you are a finalist (so after the first interview). FWIW, if you have a good relationship with your manager, I recommend telling them as soon as your see the post and are interested in applying. They may be able to find out more information for you than you can on your own or champion your candidacy in ways that you can’t.

      1. LBK*

        I’m torn because I do have a good relationship with my manager, but it’s been a pretty recent development that I decided to leave – I submitted an application for this role a week and a half ago on the day I officially decided to start looking and I got the interview request today, so I haven’t really had time to build up to telling him I wanted to move on.

        In my last role my manager had known for months that I was looking for a job so it barely even registered when I told him I’d gotten an interview, but I’m not totally sure how to handle this one other than to just rip the band-aid off.

        As far as having connections, I’d actually be going back to a department where I already worked for 3 years, so I have much stronger ties there than anyone I currently work with (I don’t know the manager since she came on after I left, but I know the guy who would be my coworker on the 2-person team and already met with him to talk about it). But it would definitely still be helpful to have my manager vouch for the experience I’ve built in the time I’ve worked for him.

    6. ExceptionToTheRule*

      Your company likely has a preferred process for how they want it handled. Personally – before you apply. I had a situation a couple of weeks ago when referring one of my employees for an internal position and then getting asked about this other person who had applied without letting me know. That second candidate didn’t look real great to either of us in the moment.

    7. Jesmlet*

      Do it before or right after. Your manager will most likely hear about it before you hear about an interview so it’s just a courtesy/transparency thing. With that said, if the boss is an unreasonable/vindictive person, I’d wait and follow your company’s guidelines.

      1. LBK*

        I have kind of the inverse problem – my manager is actually so great that I feel guilty telling him I want to leave!

        1. Jesmlet*

          I think better to hear from you with that compliment and an explanation on why than to hear it from the hiring manager for the other role…

    8. MicroManagered*

      Depends on the place. I’ve worked for companies where your immediate manager had to give permission before you could even apply for internal positions and I’ve worked for companies where different divisions were treated almost as separate entities and it was treated exactly the same as external interviewing.

      From your other comment, your company policy is to tell the manager once you’ve been asked to interview, so I’d probably just stick to that. It gives you the advantage of not tipping your hand if nothing comes of applying for this position, while also giving you the out of “I was following company policy” if your manager takes issue with how you timed telling him/her.

    9. anony mouse*

      I applied for an internal posting without having any conversations with my manager. 24 hours later, got a meeting invite for a check-in to discuss it. He expressed that he’d wished I talked it over first. I know I probably *should* have, but I didn’t for Various Reasons.

      Then we had a nice awkward chat about “are you happy here” and “what can we do to make things better” and all that. If I still had an engaged, present manager who I’d had more than 3 conversations with, I would’ve felt a lot more comfortable to start the conversation about options and goals before applying. (I actually did talk about this with my old manager, though it never got to the point of “I am now looking to move teams” since I didn’t yet have the tenure.)

      So, at least the conversation has been had, even if I triggered it in an inopportune manner :)

      (and frankly, if this choice ends up being a Horrible Move for my tenure at this team/company, that’s not the end of the world for me, given that I was looking to leave anyway!)

    10. copy run start*

      I have always informed my current manager before applying. (For me this is usually when I am about to submit my application.) It’s a professional courtesy — you don’t want them to find out from HR/other manager. This also gives them the opportunity to put in a good word for you, give you advice, make plans for your eventual departure if it seems likely, etc.

    11. Tempest*

      From an inside perspective if you’re still reading – we have an internal position and it’s ultimately to fill my job as I’m leaving. We have a couple of internal candidates who’ve applied. Neither talked it over with their manager first, just submitted internal job applications and both are now in the bad books for blindsiding their managers with their desire to leave their current roles. I would firmly advocate a conversation with your current manager before you apply. It’s just a bit of respect really. Internal moves are going to involve a convo with your current boss and it’s going to feel even more disrespectful to them if the first they know about your desire to move on is when antoher manager contacts them for a conversation about your application and the standard of your work. I’d say it’s ok if you have your application with you when you talk to your boss, but I’d say it really needs to be a conversation you have when you decide to do it, not when you’ve already got an interview scheduled. I would also say doing it this way will likely sour your relationship with your current manager. This feels a bit underhanded and secretive to me, and I’d say that most managers will then have it in the back of their mind that if you don’t get this role, you’ll still be looking for another one as you’re clearly unhappy in your role now. If you have the convo up front, you get the chance to spin your reasons for applying for this role however you want, and then you get to spin why you’d be happy to stop with current boss if your application doesn’t work out.

  37. Anony1*

    My company is moving to a new office space in our building. We’re excited about the move for the most part because for the majority of us, it means more (much needed space).
    However, one new caveat to the move has been announced and I’m sorry to say it has been incredibly demoralized, to the point I think I might consider finding another job.

    We will NOT be allowed to EAT at our desks in the new office.

    I am devastated because typically I don’t have time for breakfast at home, and run errands during lunch, so the only time I have to eat is at my desk and I enjoy/LOVE my routine. No one in our office is customer facing so I guess cleanliness of the office is the only reason for this rule, however none has been made explicit.

    If in fact this rule is held fast and doesn’t go by the wayside like many of our other office rules within a few weeks, would it be crazy to leave a job I like over this? I am otherwise happy enough with my work, coworkers, boss, compensation and commute. This is such a big deal to me that in the past, when interviewing at other companies I have left interviews when told the company doesn’t allow eating at desks (I luckily had several irons in the fire and chose this job partly because it was free of that authoritarianism).

    If I do leave over it, what do I say in interviews to ensure I don’t sound like I’m leaving over a slight inconvenience and therefore am a flight risk; while also sussing out whether this is a rule for the interviewer company too?

    1. Fabulous*

      That’s just a dumb rule. Can you push back against it at all? And maybe get some like-minded coworkers to do the same? If enough people push back, maybe they’ll consider a reassessment if the rule is really necessary.

    2. misspiggy*

      Are they providing you with a convenient and appropriate space to eat in, that will accommodate enough people at lunchtime? If not it sounds like staff need to get together and complain.

      If there is an eating space, I’d take portable work in with my lunch – reading, writing notes and so on.

    3. kitkat*

      I’m sure this sounds like a trivial point to some, but I get it. I’m a person who prefers small snacks though the day to one big meal, which you can’t really do if you have to leave your desk to eat.

      Prior to this change, had you thought about staying at this job long term or where you planning on moving on within the relatively near future? Because if it makes sense for you to move on career-wise, I see no reason why this can’t be the catalyst to get that going a bit sooner than planned. If you search through the archives there are some good tips here on how to explain why your looking for a new job (variants on the “time for a new challenge” idea). When interviewing, you can ask about the company culture to try and get clues about their lunch rules.

    4. CAA*

      You’re not crazy to leave over this if it’s a deal-breaker for you, and it sounds like it is. Everyone has different needs, and you just happen to need a job where you can eat while you work. There’s no reason to compromise on that preference as long as you can find employers who will accommodate it.

      If you leave, the reason you give both your old and new employer is that you’re looking for one of these: new challenges, career growth, more stability, better pay, more flexible hours, work from home, etc. It can be perfectly true that you’re leaving because they won’t let you eat at your desk and also to improve your job or life in some other way at the same time. There’s no need to mention that eating was the primary driver, focus on the lesser one in this case, because it might come across as a fairly trivial thing to some people.

      When you’re interviewing, somewhere near the end of the process you can ask about this. Say that you’ve always liked to work out or do errands at lunch, so you typically eat at your desk and ask if that is something others do or if there would be any problem with it; emphasizing that of course you’re working while you eat. I don’t think I would find that question strange at all. I’d just answer that lots of people eat at their desks in our office, and if you’re non-exempt you are required to take a 30 minute unpaid break away from your work area, but we don’t care if you eat during that break or at your desk after you’re back.

    5. Marisol*

      Do other people feel strongly about this new rule? Can you push back as a group?

      Or, is it possible that this rule will just be ignored once you guys move into the new space? If eating at the desk is a common practice for lots of people, they may continue to do what they want, especially the high-ranking people.

    6. JustaTech*

      At a previous job we had a legitimate safety reason for not being allowed to eat at our desks (our desks were physically part of the lab benches where we used chemicals and biological stuff). But unless you have something like that I think it will probably be reasonable to push back, or at least ask for explanations as a group.

      For starters, what does “no food” mean? No lunches? No snacks? No coffee? No water? Is the company prepared to accept the lost productivity when people have to go somewhere else to eat or drink?
      Ask as a group and *before* the move.

    8. RabbitRabbit*

      We were told that for my new office as well. Not only that, we also lost our kitchen table and chairs, so we were told we’d have to go downstairs to the little break area to eat, or to one of the cafeterias in the complex.

      It didn’t last. Soon after move-in, our big boss said basically ‘never mind, we’ll see how it goes – just be neat about it.’ It’s only been a few months but we’re still eating at our desks if we like.

    9. Handy nickname*

      My workplace implemented a “No food or drinks outside of the break room” rule a few months ago (including water!), and people were furious. I heard that a couple people contacted HR and possibly OSHA and I would have quit over it had it been enforced. Thankfully, my boss and grand-boss thought it was about as ridiculous as I did, and within a few weeks we were all hauling drinks back to our desks regularly. There’s still one person in the office who might care (and the big bosses, who work in another office and only come in occasionally), so we currently have strategically placed boxes on desks to hide our drinks under when hot-desking.

    10. Chaordic One*

      At bad old ex-job there was a particular employee who would never clean up after herself. Her desk was a disgusting pile of rancid stinking old fast food wrappers, many of them still containing rotten leftover uneaten food. It attracted insects. Apparently she would do this because it annoyed the coworker in the cubicle next to hers. (I was NOT the annoyed coworker in this story, thank goodness.)

      The department head, who was frequently out-of-the-office, told the employees to work it out between themselves and so what usually happened was that the annoyed coworker would clean the slob’s desk a couple of times a week.

      However, that was an extreme situation and I have no reason to believe that you’re slob. Most of the time rules like this don’t make sense.

    11. Been There, Done That*

      Is it absolutely no eating of any kind, or is it snack with coffee okay, full meal not okay?

  38. Anon for this*

    Any advice on how to push a promotion conversation along?

    My spouse’s boss has said she intends to move to a different area of the company some time this year. She hasn’t come out and said she wants to promote my spouse, but she has hinted at it.

    The thing is, if my spouse gets the promotion, it would probably entail an out-of-country move. My spouse and I have talked about it and I’m open to the idea, but I would need to find another job too (not impossible, but would take a bit of legwork). Not to mention that until we know whether or not we have to move, we’re not comfortable doing anything like buying a home or even signing a new lease where we are now (we’re renting, and our lease is up in a couple of months).

    I just really wish we knew what my spouse’s boss is thinking. My spouse doesn’t want to push for the information, and if the promotion just involved more money and staying in the same place, I would be totally down with that. But I’m really not loving the uncertainty where a potential trans-oceanic move is involved.

    WWYD? (and yes, I am deliberately avoiding using pronouns to anonymize us a little more!)

    1. Thlayli*

      I personally would be open and upfront in asking boss about it. However it says in your letter that spouse themselves doesn’t want to do that so it’s really spouse you need to convince.

      I would suggest you have a discussion with your spouse where you point out all the reasons there are for getting clarity (main one being lease is up and u need to plan your next move) and ask spouse why they don’t want to find out more. They may have a good reason and they may have a reason you can help solve e.g. They don’t know what to say.

      At a minimum I would say to spouse “lease is up in x days. We need to decide by y date whether we are extending lease, renting or looking to buy here, or moving. Will you be able yo get more clarity from your boss by then? If you haven’t got more clarity by then we will have to decide whether to look for temporary e.g. 6 month leases, annual leases, or assume we are staying and buy a house”

  39. Aldyn*

    I spent most of my 20s traveling and working as a freelance writer. I didn’t start college until I was 26, and 5 years later, I’ll be graduating with my master’s degree in computer science in December. When I look at my contemporaries, most (not all) are 5+ years into a career field, and I’ll essentially be starting from the bottom rung. Is this something employers will hold against me?

    1. Dang*

      I really doubt it, unless you are applying for roles that are clearly above your amount of experience. People go to school/back to school all the time! Congrats on your upcoming graduation!

    2. OtterB*

      I don’t think they’ll hold it against you – in fact, there may be some benefit in terms of standing out from the crowd of other new graduates – but in case people worry about whether you will get bored settling into a “regular” job it would probably be to your benefit more than most applicants to have ready an answer for why you chose computer science and a positive spin on the change.

    3. kitkat*

      Remember that your resume will show your graduation date, not your age. They’ll see that someone has graduated recently and is looking for a position appropriate for someone who recently obtained that degree. Nothing strange there at all!

      1. gwal*

        I’m relatively new to the professional workforce and have already had at least half-a-dozen moments where I’ve found out someone’s age incidentally through conversation or references to life milestones and been dumbfounded at how wrong my initial estimate of their age had been. Once you’re outside of structures with really strong age norms like college, I think you won’t feel unusual at all.

    4. Rainy, PI*

      I dropped out of an undergrad program I hated at 18, went back to school to finish my BA at 26. In the intervening 8 years I worked a variety of jobs and got a lot of valuable experience. I left academia one defense short of my PhD in my late 30s. I’m now in my 40s. No one has ever held it against me–in fact, my variety of experiences have very much worked in my favour. I also have a lot of great stories for coworker happy hours.

    5. Shamy*

      I just want to say that I fiind it so impressive you started back to college at 26 and now have your master’s 5 years later! That is commendable. I too went to college later in life, got my bachelors at 30, but have not yet obtained my master’s. I definitely get where you are coming from. I havent found it to be an issue with job searching. Now getting through my own mental stigma of where I should be is a whole other issue, but I find people are fascinated by my history and I bet they will be by yours as well.

    6. Thlayli*

      Have you any tips on how to give up work and become a travelling freelance writer? That sounds amazingly awesome.

    7. nonegiven*

      My son flunked out of a highly regarded tech school, went back and finished his non-cs hard science bachelor’s degree at 33.

      He had over 15 years open source coding experience and a good reputation among the server admins and the other coders on a shareware project. He also did a grant funded project for the school’s cs lab where his work was highly regarded by the manager.

      His first job out of school, he was hired as a software engineer at above entry level, because someone on the team knew his open source work personally and the language they were using was the same one he had taught himself for his cs lab job. The technical interview involved 2 people on the phone and Google docs throwing problems at him at the same time. Over about 8 months, he was flown out for in person interviews at 4 different companies and got 2 offers.

      If you can show you can deliver good code, I don’t think your age will be a problem.

  40. Grr*

    Is it weird for a company to post an old picture, which includes you on their ‘about us’ thumbnail, when they forced you out, unexpectedly, and then hired someone afterwards with the same first name as you…

    1. Sualah*

      Yeah, I’d say that’s weird.

      Not the same thing but I live in the midwest in a state with a very low minority population. My husband is Latino and when he worked for a small family-owned business, they put his picture alllllll over their website in all sort of background pictures. Now that he’s left (been gone 2 years now), they haven’t bothered to update. We go to the website every once in while to check (and laugh).

      1. Thlayli*

        My old school had me listed as a “success story” on their website even though I left before exams and I would never have got those results if I’d stayed at that school.

        I emailed them and they took it down.

    2. CAA*

      Is it a photo that was just you? If it is, then you can email them and ask them if they would remove it. They don’t have to, they have every right to use photos of their employees in their facilities, even if the employees don’t work there any more.

      If it’s just a group photo that includes you, then no, it’s not weird for them to use it. The site designer was probably looking for photos that had a certain number of people, the right brightness and background colors, etc. The person who did that page might not even know you or might have forgotten why you left.

      1. Marisol*

        You could always ask them to remove the photo even if it is a group shot. They’re not obligated to do that, but they might. Heck, I suppose you could have a lawyer send a “cease and desist” letter if you’re looking for a fight.

        But I agree with CAA that it’s not necessarily weird.

      2. OB*

        Yeah, we need more context about what kind of photo. If it’s a group photo that was professionally taken, and it’s not a small close-knit company or a photo of a specific higher-level department or something like that, it would be a hassle (and potentially expensive!) to re-do because of staff turnover. I can see how it’s awkward for you, and I sympathize because I think I’d feel really weird about that too, but absent any more context this seems totally normal.

    3. fposte*

      In a group photo? No, it’s not weird. Most places aren’t going to purge group photos every time there’s a staff change. I can see why this one is particularly galling, though.

      1. Grr*

        Group photo, a very small company – around 6-8 employees- so I’m very visibile – not to the extent of Sualah’s husband. I know I can’t ask them to remove it, I don’t want to speak to them. Just frustrating thing to stumble across, and sort of a weird thing to vent about to people.
        It was weird enough that their new hire has my name, and we only used first names in email addresses, signatures etc, so they could easily act like nothing had happened.

        1. Thlayli*

          They just gave new hire your old email address! I guess that makes sense but it feels weird!

  41. memoryisram*

    I am the volunteer managing director of a non-profit. It’s a lot of work, and our busy season is quickly approaching. For better or for worse, I do the lion’s share of the work and everyone is pretty much aware of that.

    Lately, I’ve been running into an issue where I schedule something or ask someone to bring something to an event and they ask me to remind them.

    Maybe I’m being ridiculous but this is really 1. annoying and 2. rude. I have enough on my plate (I have a full-time job, too) without needing to ask Siri to remind me to remind them.

    People dropping the ball is an ongoing issue so I know that is the root problem, but is it okay to respond “I’ll try, but if you could put this in your calendar, I would really appreciate it!”

    1. Sadsack*

      This is so annoying! I think your suggested response is fine. People shouldn’t have to ask you to remind them when they probably have multiple means of creating reminders for themselves. Also though, maybe you could add the request to the meeting notice, then there’s a built-in reminder for all.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’d be more direct than that. “I’m juggling a lot of things for this event, so please don’t count on me — set up a reminder in your calendar!”

      2. CM*

        Or even more direct, since some people may interpret that as a “maybe.” “Sorry, I can’t — sending reminders to everyone is a lot of work, and I can’t do that and also plan the event. It would be a huge help if I could count on you to remember.”

    3. LBK*

      Do you actually have managerial authority over these people, or are they colleagues? If it’s the former, I think setting the expectation that they need to manage their own calendar should do the trick. I don’t what kind of accountability you can enforce but reliability is a pretty standard metric for an employee, and keeping track of your own schedule is part of that.

    4. Judy (since 2010)*

      If you are not giving them anything electronically or in writing, I’d do that at least once per request. It can be hard for me if, say, someone stops me in the hall at church and asks me to bring X on Y date to Z place. That one follow up helps so much.

      At every job I’ve had, after any meeting someone writes up the action item assignments. I even send an email after my co-leaders and I discuss our future plans. Jane will check to see if the campground is open this weekend. Mary will call the nature center to see if they have any community service projects for our age group.

      1. Judy (since 2010)*

        I guess what I’m saying is if these are verbal requests, it is certainly helpful to have a written one, especially if it comes in email so that I can just make a calendar entry right then.

        1. Marisol*

          Actually, although I just wrote about how much I hate being someone’s reminder below, I do agree that a one-time written request is a good practice.

    5. BeenThereDoneThat*

      A common problem with volunteer work is that too many volunteers are only volunteering to do what they feel like doing. That means that the few whose priority is doing what needs to be done carry the load. After AaM’s “more direct” response, you might follow that with “I am counting on you to handle this for .” It might be good to add something about the importance of the task, however small, and the consequences of it not getting done.

    6. Marisol*

      In my opinion, asking for a reminder is rarely appropriate, and usually childish. I don’t do other people’s adulting for them. I agree with Alison.

    7. HisGirlFriday*

      I had people do that to me (I coordinate meetings), and I have found sending appointments in Outlook has been wonderful. People can accept/decline, it shows up on my/their calendar, if there are any changes to time/location/etc, I can update the event and send them all a reminder e-mail.

      No one else in my office does this, for reasons that baffle me, and then complain that they have poor meeting attendance.

    8. Leena Wants Cake*

      It’s very annoying, but I think that volunteers especially (it reads to me that these are mostly volunteers asking for reminders) have a tendency to assume that those in charge are going to do the heavy thinking and remind them about what they’ve promised to do. However, volunteers dropping the ball sounds like an even bigger problem. Would it be possible to post your master-list of who is responsible for what at a given event in some accessible place (google doc comes to mind)? Then instead of reminding half a dozen people that they have obligations, you can just send out a “make sure that you know what items on the list you are covering!” to the whole group. If we are talking about paid staff needing reminders–no: they should be able to figure that out themselves.

    9. memoryisram*

      THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP

      All of these requests are for sure in writing, not verbal – but the person(s) in question are VERY low tech. It’s frustrating.

      I think Alison is on the nose with being direct. At the next board meeting, I think I’ll be bringing up accountability and tell people that I’m not going to remind them to do their jobs.

      1. zora*

        I like how CM phrased it above, doing the math for them about how if you had to do that for every request you would have no time to actually plan the event. That makes it more impersonal and about the issue kind of in the 3rd person rather than making it sound like you’re saying “You are not doing your job” … but definitely be clear about it, that is unreasonable!

    10. Fafaflunkie*

      I’ve had to endure this as well. So guess what I did?

      I picked up my phone and said “OK Google,” waited for the blonk, then said “Remind me to remind [co-worker] that she has to [do this] at [this time.]” Once the phone said “Ok, setting alarm,” I asked coworker, who has an iPhone “can’t Siri do this for you?” Evil grin came from my mouth as I asked.

  42. The Moving Finger*

    Well, since I last updated:
    (a) After coworker started screaming at me in public a few weeks ago, I finally reported on her for all the bullying and explosions she’s done on me. Both of us were written up (though they won’t confirm it with me, that’s…pretty likely for her). I also got told that she complains about me “throwing my headphones across the room” every time I answer the phone. I wasn’t written up for THAT, at least, but clearly if I exist at all, it makes her crazy.
    (b) About a week and a half after that, she started making mean comments about me while I was on the phone, saying I am rude and accusing me of refusing to do my job when she was hearing me tell someone I wasn’t allowed to do what he wanted me to. I reported her again. I got confirmation from two supervisors that yes, I wasn’t doing anything wrong by telling the guy I wasn’t permitted to do that, so I didn’t get written up for that one. Since she did this on the day she was supposed to meet with my boss…presumably this got added to her writeup.
    (c) Since then she either hasn’t spoken to me at all or on a few days when she was in a good mood, talked to the whole group. I am still waiting for her next explosion and always will be whether she does anything or not, but she managed not to lose it on me this week when our supervisor and his supervisor were out, so that’s impressive. I figured she would have by now. The other officemates are still her buddies and ignoring the whole thing, but I consider myself fortunate they aren’t joining in.
    (d) In the meantime, I am feeling very paranoid about the various other ways she could probably try to get me fired or just annoy me. I had a whopping project this week that I was “supposed” to ask for help with, but I didn’t ask any of them, and since my supervisor wasn’t there to push the point, I got away with it. I can easily see her just “oops” not fixing any mistakes and leaving them for me to get in trouble for. Or worse. I’m afraid someday she’ll figure out how easy it would be for her to grab someone’s credit card number (people send them via US mail and the people checking mail chuck them in my box willy-nilly) and get me fired that way, instantly. So that’s a fun level of paranoia to live with. I’ve asked about getting everyone cross-trained in the past, but I think I need to come up with some politic way to renege on this if it ever comes up again.

    But she’s on vacation today and Monday, so there’s two days off! Huzzah!

    2. Perse's Mom*

      In re: “how easy it would be for her to grab someone’s credit card number (people send them via US mail and the people checking mail chuck them in my box willy-nilly)”

      Would it be possible to address this with the people who do the mail? Ask them to group all those together and you (and only you) will check in once per day/week to pick them up, for the sake of security?

  43. anon for this one*

    I am super close friends with a coworker who has the same position on me on another team. She was told awhile back that there were no openings for promotions, but my boss has insinuated to me that I should expect a promotion soon.

    Friend and I have always been honest with each other about our experiences at this company. Except I found out that I received a bonus that was much higher than hers, and I felt so awkward about it that I was really vague when we discussed it.

    I will feel really guilty if I get promoted after she asked and was denied.

    Does anyone have advice?

    1. memoryisram*

      You don’t need to feel guilty! If she seems down, just tell her every team is different and that perhaps she should use this as an opportunity to discuss with her boss goals and things?

    2. Ama*

      It sounds like her boss isn’t as good as your boss, which sucks, but isn’t your fault at all. We had an issue right after I first got to my current employer where a department head left and it was discovered, when her one direct report was rolled into another department, that she had been telling direct report that there was no money for raises or promotions — which was a total lie. (My employer has actually since altered the performance review and raise allocation process so that the C-levels can more easily spot if something like this is happening, and made sure direct report immediately got a promotion and a generous raise because her performance had been excellent.)

      It’s also possible that for whatever reason, promotions *are* available for your team but not hers, or something about your work/tenure makes you a more likely candidate than she currently is.

    3. Anon attorney*

      I’ve been there. We agreed not to discuss compensation at all. Still good friends although she no longer works here (sob)

  44. Karanda Baywood*

    I got the job offer I was hoping for! Yay!

    The internal recruiter was very helpful, giving me tips on the folks I met, what to emphasize, and sharing feedback and impressions.

    I’m so excited!

    2. The Other Dawn*

      It’s a tie between two things.

      Not being the person who has been here the longest. Although I’ve been here a couple years, I just don’t have the comfort level I had at my old job. As a result, it sometimes causes me to back down too quickly or not raise things that probably should be raised.

      Also, it’s tough knowing that my senior person was offered my job prior to me coming here, which she turned down. That’s not the tough part. What’s tough for me is that she mentioned to me several months into my job that it was a spur of the moment decision on her part, which gave me the impression that she regrets not taking it. She made it seem like the only reason she didn’t take it was because things had been really chaotic in the department for a long time and she was influenced by that. I get the vibe sometimes that she thinks she could have done a better job. She’s respectful and goes along, but I just get the feeling that she’s not 100% on board sometimes. I don’t know how to describe it.

    3. the.kat*

      Many hats. All the hats.

      I’m currently the last fundraiser standing at my job. While we hire to replace people, I’m handling EVERYTHING. This is not my happy place right now.

    6. not using my name for this post*

      I work in a morgue. Dealing with death is always hard but you get used to it or you find a different job. It sounds awful but it’s true.

      What I find hard is when people are identified (John or Jane Does) or when people are not claimed by anyone. In those cases the government pays for them to be buried. Where I am there is a cemetery for that. We also have a room where the bones of unidentified people are stored.

      I know they are dead but I hate that these people have no one. I bring flowers to the cemetery sometimes for the graves. I always bring a candle or flowers to the grave if the date of birth is known on their birthdays. I give names to the John and Jane Does. Sometimes I go to the bone room or cemetery and pray or give blessings. All different ones, Christian, Jewish, Muslim and other religions. Just in case someone was religious. Sometimes I don’t pray at all and I just have silence for those who were. It helps me to feel better.

      2. Marisol*

        Wow. You are in a situation most people couldn’t fathom. I agree with Gold Digger, this is lovely.

      6. CatCat*

        Thank you for this. I have a relative and no one in the family knows where he is (or if he is still alive). He has serious chronic mental health issues that have led to chronic homelessness and being in and out of jails and mental health facilities. It’s incredibly sad and distressing. I like to think that someone would notice if he died :-(

      8. not using my name for this post*

        Thank you so much everyone. You have no idea how much your kind words mean. I was worried about seeming stupid or weird. It means so much to hear kindness instead.

        1. Ann O.*

          It’s lovely. This is the kind of compassion we need more of in the world. I’m actually a bit teary eyed, knowing that you’re doing this for the dead.

        2. nonegiven*

          I just think if you feel moved to do something like that, doing is better than not doing and then having the thought weighing you down.

      10. Mallows*

        I am child-free, have no siblings, have no intention of marrying and am the youngest one in my very small family. Someday I may well be one of those people. I hope the person who deals with my remains is as kind as you are.

        1. Sas*

          You don’t have to marry. Find a close friend. Relationships don’t have to be like they are in the movies. You can make your own. But, don’t settle for sh–!

    7. Ama*

      Current job: My department has a very different focus and set of tasks than any of the other departments here and I am also essentially heading my department while not being senior staff (I suspect that may change soon but it’s been this way for awhile). This means that my department gets forgotten a LOT when decisions are made that effect the entire office, and because I am not in senior staff meetings I don’t get a chance to weigh in and point out that they have just loaded April up with mandatory meetings and training classes while I have the deadlines for three separate projects, or that they’ve just restricted access to a resource I use every day because it didn’t occur to them that I was using it. (I have had two separate encounters with this exact issue today –can you tell?)

      2. Em Too*

        Yep. We are a small part of a large company with very specific needs, and I feel your pain – even though we do have senior staff. Imagine McDonalds developing a lovely new IT system to support its restaurants, and rolling it out to the whole company, and its tiny logistics department quietly crying in a corner as they try to explain they do need the much faster computers with the very niche software and really none of the options on offer in the ordering system help even a little bit. (We usually get a grudging acceptance in the end that we can be an exception but if anything goes wrong with any of our IT we can just sort it out ourselves.)

    8. Anon attorney*

      When the judge doesn’t do what my client wants (especially if the reason is ridiculous or incomprehensible, as it sometimes is).

      Actually, the quality of the bench in my jurisdiction, and of the clerking service, really worries me if I think about it too much…

      1. Not So NewReader*

        There a massive amount of reasons for that.
        In my state lower level judges do not have to have a law degree. Clerks may or may not get training depending on the finances of the municipality. Judges here get called out all hours of the day and night, they easily can work 60 plus hours a week. Many of them make less than $1000 per month, some in the range of $500.

        The state financial department sets up one set of rules and the judicial department sets up another set of rules. The rules often conflict and the judges end up caught in the middle. Instead of doing judge work, they are on the phone trying to get these two entities to agree on something/anything.

        I could go on and on and on…
        You should worry. We have major problems in our court systems. Government officials keep implementing/demanding more and more paperwork. There is no money to pay the employees for their time in processing this paperwork. And additionally courts are not allowed to keep the fines they collect, it has to go upward somewhere. It’s about 66% of what they collect they must give to the state.

        I will say some judges need to have it laid out for them in spoon size bites if they should be doing something out of the ordinary. I believe in some instances you do have recourse with a higher court or you may persuade the DA to reopen.

        Because of the restrictions a judge works under, the judge is less apt to take risks. The scrutiny is a killer. The job is a pressure cooker, for example if the books don’t balance out, the judge has to pay the difference out of pocket. Remember that 500-1000 per month? Yeah, that pocket. This is just one little thing. There are hundreds more.

        Then there are threats against judges and so on. I won’t say here, but you can goggle for some home grown terrorist groups that target judges/police.
        The way things are going, I think that in the future we will see that very few people want to become judges. I agree on so many levels. We have a problem.

    9. katamia*

      Currently, for the freelancing: not knowing how long anything will take. I don’t have much control over whether I’m sent easy teapots or difficult teapots, so some weeks I have days where I have basically nothing to do and other weeks I’m working much longer than I really should. I’m investigating options to give myself more control (working for a different company or, more likely, starting my own), but that’s not going to happen right away.

      For the retail: getting up early. I really need quiet for my freelance work and am a night person anyway, so I work best really late at night. But at least once a week I have to get up early for the retail (8:30, which I know isn’t early for most people here, but it is when you’re used to/prefer working until 4:00 or 5:00 a.m.). I haven’t overslept or anything, but it’s been rough, and I’ve been drinking more Mountain Dew than I really want to to make sure I’m awake enough to work.

      1. nonegiven*

        My sister and I both are more alert after 10pm than at any other time of the day. If I’ve been running on a sub optimal amount of sleep and fighting to stay awake all day, I can count on either being suddenly wide awake at 10 or falling into bed and waking up at 11pm and staying awake until at least 3am.

        My sister did the thing where you stay up later and later every night until you are on a ‘normal’ sleep schedule. I assume it didn’t work because I’m getting emails written at 2 am.

    10. Lemon Zinger*

      While it’s one of the best things about my job, it also sucks.

      My boss works at another site and we rarely interact. It’s usually via email and we have scheduled weekly phone calls, but those don’t happen reliably because she’s always busy. If she worked in my office, she’d know that I have a great reputation and work my butt off. But unfortunately she has to hear that from other people, and I doubt I’m a major topic of discussion at meetings!

    11. Gov Mgr*

      Managing problem employees in a government agency. I know we all poo poo on the idea that it’s impossible to fire someone, but to do so here, even for pretty egregious misconduct, you have to devote upwards of a year (in some cases, several) and put up with a rash of grievances. I think it’s important to do it anyway, as that’s why we are paid, but man. I defend so much of the value the government brings to its citizens, but I can’t defend this. It’s a real morale-buster for the vast majority of employees who bring value added to their day to day.

    12. Chaordic One*

      1. Having to remind other people in other departments and branches to get their paperwork turned in on time so they can get paid and we won’t get fined.
      2. The ahead of schedule requests for information from the branch offices that happen because they made a decision to move things up without ever telling me until the last minute and so, of course, I don’t have it ready for them when the want it.
      3. Constantly reminding people that they should NOT email paperwork containing personal information (social security numbers, dates of birth, passport numbers, drivers’ license numbers, bank account and credit card numbers) because email can be easily hacked and peoples’ identities stolen.
      4. Having to constantly train new employees in office procedures because we have an unusually high rate of turnover. (All things considered, maybe it isn’t that unusual.)
      5. Trying to be professional, and have a good attitude when you’re told that the raise you’ve been promised wasn’t going to happen.

    13. Nic*

      TeachingJob: Having all of the other teachers ignore me in meetings unless I put my hand up and was called upon to speak. I was 24, and while young and inexperienced, I also had completed a Masters in Teaching.

      LastJob: Being surprised being assigned by literally three times the workload of any of my peers by my grandboss without my managers’ knowledge and grandboss’ blocking every plan to get me help because “he knows I can handle the workload.”

      CurrentJob: Boredom. If all goes as it should there are about three hours of work in a 10 hour shift. We have the ability to surf the web to sites like this one, or news, and there are elearnings we can take, but anything gets monotonous after so long.

  46. the gold digger*

    I work in R&D for an engineering and manufacturing company. We have a North America documentation team and an EU documentation team. We have an NA documentation portal and an EU documentation portal.

    All products are sold worldwide. It would be nice to have a single point of entry for all documentation.

    I can’t fight the political fight (my boss is doing that), but does anyone have any recommendations about best practices for global technical/product/marketing/training internal documentation organization? Both of the current document intranet portals are homegrown Sharepoint (can I tell you guys how much I hate Sharepoint?) sites. Are there any nice software packages for portal design out there?

        1. Chaordic One*

          We do more than spit on Sharepoint.

          (But this is a reasonably professional open thread and we don’t speak of such things here.)

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Yeah… Sharepoint here too. Though I don’t totally hate it.
      As for NA and EU, it depends. There might be a very good reason for it, such as different regulations and/or steps in the process, different workflows, etc.? I would try to suss that out before you go making changes.

      Something better than Sharepoint? Good luck! Seriously, I guess it comes with the Windoze package (it’s there, might as well use it, right). But a portal can be made with Liferay, Drupal, or more specialized software such as IntranetDashboard, MyHub, Desk, and I’m sure many others.

    3. FluffyToodie*

      I love MindTouch. We use it for our doc set. It’s probably more power than we really need at this point, but I love it and think it might work well for your teams to use together.

    4. The Grammarian*

      If you are going to continue to use SharePoint, I suggest that whoever is in charge come up with a plan about how the files will be organized and about who has permission to update particular files.

    6. Ann O.*

      Do you know how your documentation teams author/edit their documentation? That can make a difference for what products are available for document portals. Does the documentation portal need to be on the same platform as other teams’ output (i.e. marketing, training, operations) or can it be documentation-specific as long as it integrates seamlessly to the end user?

      Also, are you working with your documentation team about this? There are a ton of best practices that I would expect them to be aware of, and they probably hate using Sharepoint as much as you do. (FWIW, I do not hate Sharepoint. I think it’s like any other jack-of-all-trades tools–not as nice as specialist tools but okay as long as you have someone who actually knows how to configure it for your needs rather than leaving you trapped with the out-of-the-box set up)

  47. Sara*

    I’m beginning to feel very demoralized in my job search – feels like hoping from one dead end role to similar roles. I was thinking of looking at other avenues but it makes me really nervous. Has anyone had success with changing their career path without taking too much of a pay cut? I have a mortgage and can’t really afford to be totally entry level at this point.

    1. Not a Cat Lady*

      Yup! It starts with wanting it — if you know what you want it’s easier to convince someone else to give it to you bc you can tailor your resume to fit the things they’re looking for. I went from finance administrator to marketing content strategist to operations manager to sales director. :-)

      1. nhb*

        I second this; I’ve gone from customer service to time analyst to working in operations to buyer. My moves were primarily accomplished because I asked to learn about things as I went about the previous job(s): i.e. in my customer service job, I also would ask questions about the company’s operations, and in my operations job, I learned about how we purchased the things we were shipping out, which is how I’m a buyer now.

        Learn everything you can about the path you want to take, be confident with your knowledge, and be honest about what you don’t know. Good experience with people and jobs in general (not being the office “Fergus”) counted for a lot with the places I’ve been. Also, if you haven’t, I’d also recommend mentioning that you’re looking for a place to stay for a while, potentially a place that you can grow with. How you phrase that can be tricky, depending on the audience (don’t want to sound like you already have a foot out the door!), but this has worked for me in the past, simply because I have explicitly told them that I don’t want to job hop.

        Good luck!

  48. Antti*

    If you knew you were more than likely going to move away in a little more than a year’s time, would you attempt to change departments within your current company so you could get even a little experience in the part of your field you’re trying to move into?

    There’s nothing currently open in that department but jobs do frequently get posted for more junior roles there, and that junior role would still be a step up from where I currently am. I’m just concerned that it wouldn’t necessarily be a great boon to have a short stay in a new department, even if it makes the difference between having experience and not having it. And also, even though all I know now is that it’s only super likely that I will move, it would still feel a little like I’m operating in bad faith if I try to do that.

    1. Joshua*

      I think if it’s going to be for at least a year before you move away it wouldn’t necessarily be bad faith to move to a higher position within your workplace. Things could definitely change in a year; you never know if you’ll still be leaving at that time. Even if you were 100% absolutely certain you were leaving, your resume will show essentially a promotion at the same workplace. Junior roles expect less time in the role before you move on anyways, perhaps that’s a reason why you’re seeing so many job postings. Maybe it would help you feel better about it if you could find out how long an average person in those roles stay. If it’s normally 1-3 years, you won’t feel like you’re operating in bad faith. However, if the normal person in the role stays for 5 years and it takes them a whole year to get through training and beginner’s mistakes, then that could be a different scenario.

      1. Confused Teapot Maker*

        Agreed. The (slightly gloomy!) way I think about it is that they could decide they’re not that into you/you could decide the move was a bad idea and leave within the first few weeks anyway – there’s no guarantee that might not happen and, assuming you’ll be on one, it’s kind of what probation periods are for anyway! So with that in mind I would say, no, you’re not operating in bad faith if you’re also thinking about moving away a year from now.

    2. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

      Life is uncertain and the future path is unknown. Do what’s best for you today–your plans for a year from now may change.

  49. Emi.*

    I have a question about site ads. The ad reporting page says that “the ad directly above the comments section may play sound as your cursor moves over it. It should stop when your cursor moves away. That one is allowed!” However, I’m also seeing an ad all the way across the bottom of the window (not attached to a particular part of the page, so it doesn’t move with scrolling), which also plays sound when my cursor is over it. Is that allowed too, or should I report it?

    Thanks!

    2. AnnoyingAd*

      I keep getting an ad that, without any additional clicks (just by appearing on the AAM site), hijacks my web browser and takes me to another website that claims I have a virus on my computer. This happens about once per day, across multiple devices and I’m not sure exactly which ad as it hijacks me instantly once the ad appears. This does not happen on any other website currently, and I visit a bunch. I practice safe internet so I know my computer isn’t actually infected and therefore don’t fall for the trick, but it’s awfully annoying to have to close out the browser through Task Manager and navigate back to AAM. I’m reporting it too, but was wondering if it was happening to others and if so, if they knew which ad it is.

      2. Luisa in Dallas*

        The same thing happens to me, but not as often (maybe once a week). Like you, I have not been able to identify which ad triggers this sudden (and very noisy) “virus warning.” Man, I hate that thing. I hope someone knows how we can stop it.

    3. Lily in NYC*

      I get so many more ads on the bottom of the page now – it’s like they are layered or something. It takes me four clicks to get out and then it’s starts again on every single page. It’s really annoying.

  50. whichsister*

    I had a phone interview this a.m. and am SO PROUD of how I handled the salary question. She asked what salary I was looking for and I responded with “well currently I work for a small business with minimal benefits sod it is really not just salary but benefits I am factoring in. What is the range you are looking to hire at?”

    She then gave me the low number which solidly in my green light range and I calmly told her that was a perfectly acceptable range. She also said she would send me the benefits information as well.

    Normally I get flustered when I get that question but reading this blog really helped me! Thanks all!

    5. Snazzy Hat*

      Ahhhh that’s a great point! I posted below about my phone interview today, and realized NOW that I’m paid hourly $X super-part-time with no benefits; if I get this job, I’d be paid $Y (considerably less than X but still good) but with benefits out the wazoo! How did that slip my mind?! Ahhhhhhhhh!

    7. Thlayli*

      I am so using that next time!

      I really hate it when companies don’t tell you the range in a job description.

  51. Karanda Baywood*

    I got the job offer I was hoping for! Yay!

    The internal recruiter was very helpful, giving me tips on the folks I met, what to emphasize, and sharing feedback and impressions.

    I’m so excited!

      1. Karanda Baywood*

        They really were. I’ve never been lucky enough to have someone so completely on my side — and they are in-house!

  52. AnnaleighUK*

    Toxic job begone! New beginnings start on Tuesday – I got the prerequisite insincere card and totally useless present from my coworkers. Also my mug that I’d not seen in six months randomly was returned to me so, okay then! My housemate also had her last day at her job today so tonight is Dominos Pizza, Ben & Jerrys and an X Men marathon!

      1. AnnaleighUK*

        We are having such fun. I’m baffled by Luna’s ability to do a creditable Magneto impression when she has the smallest, girlie voice! At least it is a long weekend! I feel so free, knowing I’ve left Horrible Exploding Boss behind is a fantastic feeling and I can’t wait to start the Dream Job on Tuesday. I’m a building inspector, if anyone was wondering!

    2. Snazzy Hat*

      I love this post so much. The “prerequisite insincere card and totally useless present” made me laugh out loud, plus you got a stolen mug returned. By “randomly”, I hope it wasn’t there during part of the day, and when you returned from the restroom it was there, meaning someone was watching and waiting for you to leave your desk.

      1. AnnaleighUK*

        Muggate Scandal started in October last year. I’m a huge Disney nerd and my niece bought me a Frozen mug for work – on the logic that nobody would steal it. She’s eight, so this logic was quite sound. Anyway, the Frozen mug goes in the cupboard and mysteriously vanishes overnight. Bear in mind I was usually one of the first in the office in the mornings, so the cupboard tended to be mug-filled when I got in for my daily cup of black gold. I did the hunt round the office and the obligatory ‘where’s my mug, guys, come on, it’s a darn Disney mug, really?’ email. To no avail, so I assumed it was gone forever. Yesterday I went out to my car to put a box of my belongings in the boot, came back to my desk and there was the mug, spotlessly clean, sitting on my matching Disney coaster as if it had never gone missing. I was totally mystified. Happy it was back, as my niece was upset it had been lost, but still… very peculiar! It’s coming to New Job with me, New Manager is as much of a Disnerd as me, which I really like! Yes, we discussed it in the interview. I’d like to think it didn’t affect the hiring decision!

        1. Thlayli*

          I can’t believe no more Hugh Jackman wolvy movies. Gutted.

          [note this is not a spoiler since he announced before the movie that he wouldn’t do any more]

  53. Office Mercenary*

    On Monday got an offer for a job that would require immediate international relocation, and today is the deadline to accept or reject. I still have no idea what to do and I’m freaking out.

    During my second phone interview, the director asked me what my least favorite race is. As in, what groups of people do I dislike. I was stunned and asked what was the goal of the question. He said they have a “non-politically correct” office culture and he wanted to make sure I can laugh at their jokes. As an example, he said he doesn’t like Scots or Australians. I said something vague about boundaries in humor being relative. We had a reasonably good rapport until then. A former classmate of mine works there and is the one who told me about the opening. When I asked her about the director’s comment, she brushed it off as just British humor, and said Americans get offended so easily. I know British humor, and that’s not just British humor.

    If I accept the offer, I’ll work closely with the two of them in a small office (12 people total) in a small-ish company in a country where I don’t know anyone. It may all work out for the best, but now I’m wondering how they’ll perceive my own racial/ethnic background. I also wonder if the company would have my back in, say, a sexual harassment situation, or if they would tell me to just loosen up and take a joke. When I mentioned this concern to my classmate, she said sexual harassment won’t happen because the office has only Western employees. (!)

    It also has me questioning the office culture as a whole; another division of the company has done unethical and illegal things that are sadly typical of that industry. I’ve reassured myself that I’ll have nothing to do with that side of the company and all my work will be legitimate, but now I’m wondering about their overall management.

    However, the job itself would be really fascinating work and it would get me a work visa to the region I’ve been studying for years. Overseas experience would be great for my career right now, if not mandatory. I’d have significant responsibility, more so than I would have at a larger company, and wouldn’t have to pay taxes. I’m their top choice candidate and they already increased the salary before I even started negotiating.

    I wish I’d had a chance to interview in person, meet everyone, and get a feel for the office. Maybe I just need to pay my dues and work with a few jerks for a year or two. What should I do? I’m debating asking for another phone call with the director to talk things over but I don’t even know what good that could do.

    1. Myrin*

      I don’t mean to bum you out but quite frankly, that sounds like a disaster in the making, if you ask me.

    3. the gold digger*

      During my second phone interview, the director asked me what my least favorite race is. As in, what groups of people do I dislike.

      Whoa. This is, in theory, the director on his best behavior.

    4. Tau*

      Agreed with everyone else – do not accept. Apart from all the other ways this could go disastrously wrong, do you really want your professional reputation entangled with that guy?

      It’s not like your only option for overseas experience and extra responsibility is this job. The fact that you’ve been offered this job clearly means you’re qualified – why not apply to similar ones where you wouldn’t be dealing with a racist boss?

    5. Sadsack*

      I am sorry to say that this employer sounds like a problem in the making and you friend gets low marks as well.

    6. SCAnonibrarian*

      Nope. Soooooo much Nope. Your friend is working VERY hard to spin this, but there shouldn’t BE anything in a solid job offer that you have to spin to make it acceptable. No way nuh-uh not ever. They are essentially TELLING you straight up that they engage in racist behavior on a regular basis. Believe people when they tell you unpleasant things about themselves.

    7. Emilia Bedelia*

      Nooooo! That’s a horribly bad sign. Especially if you didn’t even get a chance to interview in person.

      Another, better job will come along. Don’t settle for something just to “pay your dues”.

    9. kitkat*

      Nope nope nope. Run away, quickly.

      They basically told you, “By the way, we’re super racists. You cool with that?” And what you’re friend seemed to say was, “These are the type of people that don’t think sexual harassment is a real thing!”

      And given how open they are about this, I have serious doubts to this companies reputation. Having that company on your resume could do more harm than good.

    10. Snazzy Hat*

      “Sack race. I can never time the jumps correctly and always end up falling over on my face.”

      I agree with Tau; you’re clearly qualified for that kind of work, so keep applying. I also agree with Emilia; you do not have to “pay your dues”, and I’ll add you don’t have to do that at all ever for a job. Holy cow, don’t take this job. Don’t contact the director to talk things over. If you’re going to call anyone, it should be whatever newspaper is in the company’s area.

    11. Alice*

      If you can get this offer for fascinating work in the region you want, you’ll be able to get another one.

      He was screening for people who will be happy working with a racist jerk (and probably, in an environment where the racist jerks can reach management levels because that’s seen as normal). Can you be happy, productive, and professional in that environment?

      My take is that it’s better to let this one go and keep looking for the right opportunity.

      If you do take it, good luck! Lots of people have succeeded in challenging environments.

    12. Joshua*

      Don’t do it.

      I don’t know how the work visas for this particular company/country work, but it is not a stretch of the imagination that you’ll feel pressured to put up with a lot more crap from this company since they’re your visa sponsor and they’re your only support in a foreign country. And being told Americans get offended too easily by your friend at the company means they’re not going to take your complaints seriously.

    13. New Window*

      I think the warning signs are really clear, so it comes down to, what will you be able to tolerate in order to get what you want out of the experience?
      – How likely is it that you’ll get another job offer in the same region?
      – How much of a positive impact would this job have on your overall career path?
      – What kind of support network would you be able to create and rely on? What practices have you developed to keep you mentally healthy when things get crappy?
      – Are you going with yourself, with a partner, or with family? Will you partner be able to work? Can your relationship handle the stress of new environment, extra job stress, and their potential unemployment?
      – How long would you be there? How easy would it be to leave?
      – Have you or people you know been in a crappy job situation before, and how did you/they cope?

      I am seeing this through the lens of my experience. I very very very much understand wanting to take a job in a place overseas you’ve been wanting to go. I did that, in fact. But I had a good set of co-workers, and, even if I was still the fur’ner, there was still a fundamental level of respect.

      Part of my job was helping other foreigners in workplace conflict. I had friends and colleagues who witnessed sexual harassment or were occasionally targets themselves, who were asked insensitive things about their nationality or ethnicity, who saw staff and clients treated horribly or dismissively. For some of them, the stress of it meant they left after only one or two years–much sooner than they had anticipated. For others, they were able to cope with it by creating their own space in the organization (if their supervisors let them) and having a really supportive network outside of the office.

    14. The OG Anonsie*

      Great googly moogly no. Nooooooooooooooo.

      This is one of many times here I’ve wished I could make my comment just play Gnarls Barkley. RUN. RUN AWAY. RUN CHILDREN. RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIFE

      Maybe if your classmate was like “Oh yeah, that Wakeen, he’s a real turd. We deal with it by ____” but no, she clearly thinks this is Totally Fine and then went on with her other comments about only non-western, non-white people being predatory… Oh my god. That whole place has got to be a shit show.

    15. LCL*

      Future director asked you a race-baiting question? The director?! The director sets the tone for the rest of the office. He’s shown this is an issue with him. And I am thinking you may be of a different race/ethnic background then him because of what you said. He asked you to see how much crap you will put up with, I think.
      This sounds like a horrible place for anyone. And it sounds like you would be isolated and maybe harassed based on your ethnic origin.

    18. Anon attorney*

      Jesus, no. I’m a Brit and this wouldn’t be acceptable in the UK. In fact it would be illegal. You’re not being oversensitive. Run!!!!!!!!

      1. Thlayli*

        Agreed. This is definitely not “just British humour”.

        I’ll admit that I sometimes find Americans to be a little over the top in the quest to make sure no-one could ever be offended by anything ever and simultaneously find things to be offended by, but this is just plain racism and most definitely is illegal. Honestly I would consider reporting them.

    19. Rocketship*

      “When I mentioned this concern to my classmate, she said sexual harassment won’t happen because the office has only Western employees.”

      WHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT

      WAIT

      WWWWWWWWHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT

      BUT SERIOUSLY WHAT THO

      Sounds like that office’s super-racist culture has been super absorbed by your classmate. Nthing the advice to run far, far away. Run like your hair is on fire. Saddle up the nopetopus and hit the open road.

    20. Working Rachel*

      No no no no no! Do not relocate internationally for a job that appears to be populated by racists and that is also involved in unethical and illegal things!

    21. Office Mercenary*

      I think you’ll all be glad to know I turned the job down! I’d already been leaning that way but was feeling a little greedy for the opportunity. Seriously, at any other company this would have been my dream job. After I decided against it, I felt this weight lift. The money would have been good, and I’m still unemployed ($36 in my checking account!) but the crippling anxiety is gone now. Hooray!

  54. Amaryllis*

    A few of us are planning a work bridal shower for a coworker. The Bride-To-Be would like to invite 10 coworkers (us included) out of ~20, primarily her work friends and people in her work unit. There are 4 coworkers the BTB would definitely NOT want at the shower (past personality conflicts, bad blood, etc). Then there are about 6 coworkers who she doesn’t dislike but she didn’t include because she wants to invite women only and because they are more friendly with the 4 coworkers mentioned above.

    I definitely understand why BTB doesn’t want the 4 there (and most of the people to be invited will not want the 4 there either). Generally speaking, I don’t think you should have to invite everyone to a social event (this is not elementary school), but I can understand why there most likely will be hurt feelings. It’s public knowledge BTB is getting married. We have not had any bridal showers at work for past BTBs.

    Holding the event after hours or on the weekend is out due to people’s schedules. I’m trying to at least convince the other organizers that we should NOT hold this event in one of the conference rooms.

    Is this a bad idea?

    1. Beloved*

      Having a shower at work during work hours and not inviting everyone is, IMO, a terrible idea. If your office was larger, I could see inviting select people, but I would never explicitly exclude people. The “Mean Girls” vibe is strong on this one.

    2. Karanda Baywood*

      Short answer? Yes.

      If it were me, I’d ask those interested to pitch in for a gift, and bring a cake for EVERYONE to enjoy.

    3. enough*

      If all are not included do not have it at work. Any events held at work must be inclusive with the only restriction being related to geography and organizational chart. Have the event out of the office at a local restaurant.

      1. Thlayli*

        Agreed. If it absolutely must be done in office hours then it has to be outside of work location. You simply can’t have a social function in an office and not invite everyone.

    4. Amy*

      Work bridal showers clearly aren’t the norm at your organization, it’s not a work event, and it’s not open to the whole team. I think you’re right that this shouldn’t be held at work. Could you propose an alternate plan like taking her out to dinner?

    5. Blue eagle*

      Oh man, it is a really bad idea to hold the event on company property and exclude co-workers. If you need to hold the event during work time, please, please, please, investigate the places offsite where it could be held.

    6. the gold digger*

      I would be thrilled to be excluded from a work event that

      1. requires a present
      2. requires me to bring food
      3. happens during lunch, which is when I want to go to the gym

      BTW, we had a baby shower at work on Wednesday. All the women in the office were invited and a few men who know the pregnant woman. Most of this office of 250 persons was excluded. I don’t think anyone cared.

    7. Shamy*

      I really can see this going badly in so many ways. It seems very exclusionary and mean. My department does bridal and baby showers and literally everyone in the department is included, men and women. If this is going to be a work thing. I really think everyone needs to be invited. Otherwise, it needs to be a private thing. I know this isn’t the answer you wanted, but it is the only professional way to handle these things.

    9. Lily Rowan*

      Yeah, that sounds like a terrible idea, sorry. It’s not elementary school, but you should still invite people based on category in a situation like this. And not divide based on gender! So I would say it’s fine to do something with just her work unit, or with everyone, but not a work-place event with a restricted guest list of just her friends. Maybe you could go out to lunch? That might (MIGHT) be slightly less awkward, depending on the office culture.

    10. Lily in NYC*

      We always just invite people the guest of honor is friendly with to our work baby showers (we never have wedding showers thank god). It’s not kindergarten; I think people should not have to have someone they don’t like at their party. But if I am reading it correctly that you are a 20-person office, that might not be the way to go. We have 600 people so no one cares and most people are happy not to be invited to a party for someone they barely know or don’t like.

    11. HisGirlFriday*

      This is not a bad idea. This is a Very, Very, Very Bad Idea.

      The BTB is mixing up two social conventions: One, the truly social bridal shower, which is populated by her friends, her relatives, and the relatives of the person she is marrying, whom she is inviting because they’re related to her beloved; and Two, the office social event, in which is is mandatory to invite broadly enough that people are not excluded. Inviting 50% of an office when the total office size is 20 is going to look bad. (Inviting 50% of the office when the office size is 250 and not everyone knows BTB is forgivable.)

      If you legitimately cannot have this outside of work hours, then you need to invite everyone or not have it at all. But inviting only some people (and having them be seen to get ‘time off’ to party when other people have to work) is going to further escalate bad blood and hurt feelings.

    12. fposte*

      You can have it at work for anybody who can come, or you can have it outside of work and be selective on the guest list. You can’t do both.

    13. The OG Anonsie*

      It’s fine to pick out just your work friends when it’s a social event outside of work, but once you’re having it in the office during work hours this then becomes a Workplace Event and follows different rules. It’s no longer a personal social event in that case.

      Can this group just go out to lunch together somewhere off-site?

    14. WellRed*

      I threw my boss a baby shower and invited all the women. The three guys on staff couldn’t have cared less about attending a shower. I will say it was an offsite lunch.
      The folks the bride really doesn’t get along with might decline to attend even if invited, but you’ll have done your part.

    15. Amaryllis*

      Thanks for everyone’s responses – pretty much confirmed my suspicions (that it is a terrible idea!). I’ll have to talk to the other organizers. Hope they will understand and be able to convince the BTB.

      The event was to be held during our lunch hour so technically no work time would be used (of course, parties never end on time). There are a few restaurants around our workplace that might work but there’s a chance we’ll run into one of the uninvited on the way there or at the restaurant.

      Can I just remove myself from the shower planning committee? :)

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Just ask them if they can do this for everyone. I am getting a headache just sorting who can and cannot come to this shower, if there was another shower I would need score cards to keep track of the in people and the out people.

  55. Moving without a job! Ack!*

    Does anyone have advice on finding a good temp or recruiting firm? I’m going to be moving to the LA area (or possibly inland empire) and have no idea where to start.

    What are red flags or things to look for? I’ve previously worked in business analyst roles in two different industries (neither of which has a big presence in LA) if that makes a difference.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Temp agencies and recruiters should never charge you for their services. If they try, that should be a huge red flag.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      Good temp agencies are SOOOOO rare. The only suggestion I have is to find one that has been in business for at least a few years and under the same name. In my area, a temp company will pop up, scam a bunch of people, then change it’s name.
      You could also call a good company and ask what temp/staffing company they use.

    3. Beancounter Eric*

      Time in business is a big thing. Also, look for a firm with a strong recruiting practice in your field.

      1. Moving without a job! Ack!*

        Thanks for the replies so far! How do I find a firm with “a strong recruiting practice in your field”? I’ve worked similar roles in two very different companies/industries and am still only ~5 years into​ my career. I found my past roles through internal recruiters (which I’ll still plan on doing in addition to looking for temp/outside firms). I’m not sure which recruiting companies my current field uses as I’ve never been involved with any hiring.

        1. Marisol*

          I think you have to research the firm online or ask the rep when you speak to them. Some recruiters specialize in entertainment, some legal, etc. so if that’s the case you can easily determine that. That said, if a recruiter says they don’t specialize in your field but that they occasionally get jobs in, I don’t see anything wrong with meeting with them.

    4. Snazzy Hat*

      How to find a good firm: Job fairs job fairs job fairs, and be candid and honest.

      My personal recommendation: Robert Half, and there’s a location in LA. I admit my experience with Robert Half is from the other side of the country, but it was excellent, thorough, quick, and practically customized. They’re also fabulous with follow-up. This past December, I got a visit at work from one of the agents; she gave me a company travel mug filled with mini chocolates.

    5. Karanda Baywood*

      I don’t use LinkedIn much, but I know that it’s filled with job postings and recruiters. Maybe poke around and see what you can find…

    6. Karanda Baywood*

      Are their placement agencies that focus on that type of work? Check out their websites.

    7. Marisol*

      I have had great success with Career Group and Blaine and Associates, both in Century City, and the Referral Group, which I think is in Pasadena. I think Legal Option Group is good for many people too, although they kind of burned me once a long time ago, so it’s not an unqualified reco. I can’t think of any red flags unique to temp agencies. I personally stick with agencies that I know have high-end clients such as law and private equity firms, and don’t bother with the ones with a lower end clientele, because the jobs won’t pay as much and may have unsavory aspects that you wouldn’t deal with working for a higher caliber professional firm.

      1. Marisol*

        Also you want to remember that the temp agency, and not the client you are contracted to work for, is your boss, so never make the mistake of treating them like they work for you. If you look at yelp reviews, there are a lot of disgruntled people who are upset that Career Group didn’t give them a job they deserved. But it doesn’t work like that (and you can tell those disgruntled people suck anyway). You have to nurture the relationship in the same way you would with any business relationship.

  56. Stage Name*

    This might be a bit of a stretch for this blog but…

    Is anyone here a professional musician with a stage name, or no someone who is? When you’re at networking events, is it better to introduce yourself by your real name or your stage name?

    1. Aveline*

      I had a friend who is a professional musician who will get his name and then say his stage name.

      “Hi I’m Joe Smith, but you may know me by my stage name Studmuffin

    3. Precisely*

      It depends on what the purpose of the networking event is. If the musician is at an event where they do NOT want to be associated with their music they will use their real name (or whatever incognito name they may have). If they do want to be associated with their music they would introduce themselves with the name they go by professionally, especially if they want people to be able to look them/their band up afterwards.

      Basically introduce yourself with whatever name will produce the Google results you want those you introduce yourself to get.

    4. Ann O.*

      I am not a professional musician, but I am a semi-professional variety performer with a stage name. At networking events, I use my stage name as does everyone else. That is our norm. I don’t know if it’s the same for musicians, but I would imagine that if you have any kind of Google/social media presence that it is.

  57. Tris Prior*

    One question and a rant today.

    My company’s having layoffs so I’m redoing my resume in case it’s me. I’m frustrated because I’ve been here about a year and have been given hardly any work to do despite me asking frequently for more work and trying to take initiative in what limited ways I can (we are very hierarchical and there’s a culture of not stepping on people’s toes and jumping in on work that technically “belongs” to someone else). Therefore, I’ve no idea what to put down for my accomplishments at this job. I’ve done way less here than I’ve done at all my other jobs, and not by choice. How have others handled this?

    The rant: Boyfriend’s co-worker told him to F off yesterday, after he asked her a work-related question. She wasn’t joking, and she used those words. It’s not a culture where people just go around saying that to each other (my friend in construction didn’t see why this would be a big deal, but this is a corporate office). He told his supervisor, as this is part of a pattern that’s been going on with his team for some time, but knows that his supervisor will not manage this person and is worried he’s getting a reputation for tattling. It is just so toxic in that place; they have a real Mean Girls culture – lots of backstabbing and whispering amongst themselves – and he is the only guy. He needs to get out of there.

    1. Alice*

      Maybe your “accomplishments” can be about being responsive? That is, instead of emphasizing how much work you did, emphasize how quickly you responded to (the rare) requests or how well aligned your work was with your boss’s vision?
      Good luck with the layoffs.
      I hope you can stay (if you want to) at your job and your boyfriend can get a new one soon.

  58. Myrin*

    It’s been a month since I was told I’d find out whether I got a job I applied and interviewed for “in two to three weeks at most”. I know that I definitely will hear from them no matter what, so I’m not worried I’m out of the running or anything but man, the suspense! I can understand it; there are three or four parties involved in the hiring, everyone of whom gets a say in the candidate (and one of them is the state) and we had three holidays and a semester start in the meantime but aaaah, I thought for sure I’d be coming home from hospital with a message by them and now I’ve been home a whole week already. I just want to knoooow!

  59. Anxa*

    I got to cover a shift this week!

    I must say, though, that as giddy as I was that I’d have an opportunity to pick up a shift (predictable hours, guaranteed to be paid for my time at work), part of me was actually kind of bummed because in my head I had my day planned differently.

    It got me thinking just how much I hate not being able to have a routine. Now, theoretically, I could get up, commute to work, and be on call every day. And in a way, I might be happier. But I worry I don’t lack the self-discipline for that because:
    -If I’m at my work site between shifts or wondering if I’ll get an appointment, I feel like I can’t concentrate on my personal work. I don’t really work well in short segments and need longer chunks of time to break through my brain sludge.
    -I’m not really supposed to do too much personal stuff using my workplace’s resources.
    -But I can’t do too much work-work because I’m not really at work unless I am on my scheduled shifts or have a client with me.
    -If I get bored or restless I get very tired or hungry. I’ve actually cracked twice and splurged on overpriced cookies twice because I hadn’t packed proper snacks the day before. This happens mostly on days I wasn’t planning to go in initially.
    -I worry about wasting commuting costs.
    -On the days where I don’t get many or any hours, I feel guilty for having wasted the day at work instead of taking care of things that have been on my to-do list that need to be done at home.
    -I can’t usually fall asleep before 23o am, often later, and then I succumb to the sleep dragon in the morning. It’s almost like an addiction. It’s very hard to get up in the morning if I don’t HAVE to. I’d rather get a consistent 5 hours of sleep a night than the roller coaster of 3 hours one night, 9 hours another, and so on. I think this is why I did so much better in K12 than college, and why I did better in my 9-4 postbac program. I know logically that this is all the more reason to build my OWN regular schedule, but I don’t think I can sustain it when I know there’s no real fear of external consequences. And, again, I feel weird planning to use work’s resources for my own use. I feel less weird when I’m just using it during the down time between work sessions, because frankly I think it’s ridiculous to expect me to just sit on my hands for up to 7 hours straight.

    So this isn’t really so much a question asking for advice on how to stick to a regular schedule, but rather a question on if anyone else finds that they are way more productive and happy when they have predictable hours and know where and when they have* to be at work the next morning. I feel like most nights I just fritter away the last few hours of the day wondering what time I need to get up, which bus I should take, if it’s better to get a ride, etc.

    *well I don’t HAVE to be work at any certain time, but if I don’t do my best to make myself available, I lose chances for hours.

    1. Jules the First*

      Can’t help you with the accountability, but for sleep I use the Sleep Cycle app…you give it a half hour window to wake you up in and then it tracks your sleep depth all night and wakes you up when you were close to surfacing anyway. It doesn’t make me feel any better about getting up, but at least it means I’m alert and un-snoozed when I do.

    2. Cedrus Libani*

      I used to have a very hard time getting to sleep on time. To the point where, as a college student, I arranged my schedule so I could sleep every other day (~13 hour sleep per two-day cycle). Blue-light blocking glasses literally changed my life. They’re ~$10, might be worth a try.

  60. Emily, admin extraordinaire*

    Question for folks in HR.

    Eight years ago, I worked as an HR Admin Assistant for 9 months, then as a Training Coordinator for 3, before being laid off on my one-year anniversary with the company. During that time I handled all employee benefits (including open enrollment) and gradually added more responsibilities like onboarding, teaching new employee orientation, and conducting training checks in our locations (it was for an independent movie theater chain). I wanted to stay in HR after getting laid off but couldn’t find a position during the recession. Since then I’ve worked as a high-level admin assistant for my state government.

    I still want to go back to HR, but with only a year of experience I’m having a hard time breaking back in to the industry. I’m considering getting a second bachelor’s degree (I already have one in English, as well as a Masters in English) in Human Resources from Western Governor’s University to try to make myself more marketable. It would probably take me a year/year and a half to complete the degree.

    Would it be worth it? Would people hiring entry-level HR folks give me a second look (which I know they’re not doing now, as I haven’t gotten any interviews for HR positions in years)? I’d like to eventually get a PHR or CP certification, but those require experience which I don’t currently have and can’t seem to get. I don’t want to add yet another degree that won’t help me get a job, so I’m looking for feedback from those in the industry (including my former boss, who loved me).

    Thoughts?

    1. EA*

      Do you have anything currently in your role that can be spun as HR experience? Do you schedule interviews, screen candidates, help train other admins in your department, help your department on-board people, help write training guides for new hires? I think if you do that stuff, or could reasonably ask to do that stuff, then you could have a more coherent HR background.

      Then I would go on that, and your previous HR experience. How much have you been applying, and what have you heard thus far? I would say maybe try for coordinator roles, or even HR admin. Also, come up with a really compelling case as to why you want to do HR for the interview. I think that combined with some relevant experience can make a transition easier.

      1. Emily, admin extraordinaire*

        The only thing I do now that is remotely HR-related is training new hires in the specific areas I have jurisdiction over (mostly using a couple of websites I do tech support for). Unfortunately, all HR processes here at the state are handled by the state department of HR.

        HR Admin roles are good for my experience level, but unfortunately most of the ones I’m seeing around here would be too much of a paycut (I make $18/hr and most are at $12/hr). While I’m willing to take a paycut to break back in, I can’t take quite that much. Coordinator roles want either a degree or 2-3 years experience (or both). I haven’t gotten any feedback from my applications that’s useful, as I usually don’t even make it to the interview stage. In my cover letters I emphasize how quickly I’ve been able to learn new things and take on new responsibilities (for instance, being promoted after 9 months to training coordinator) and how my current roles have had a strong component of working with people to solve problems. But I think my lack of relevant training has been holding me back.

    2. KiteFlier*

      I think it depends on the position. There are a lot out there that are 50% admin and 50% HR assistant/coordinator – if you’re not already, maybe prioritize these kinds of roles in your applications. It also depends on the other applicants. They are probably getting a ton of applicants with much more recent relevant experience. Personally, I value experience over education – unless you’re positive HR is the direction you want to go in (which, it might not be with the limited experience you’ve had in it almost 10 years ago), an additional degree is probably not worth the time and expense m- but that’s a personal decision.

      Is there any volunteer work available in your area that is somewhat HR-related? VolunteerSqaure and other websites have a ton of listings and will notify you when they get a match to your interests. I’ve also noticed some virtual and in-person volunteer HR opportunities on LinkedIn.

      1. Emily, admin extraordinaire*

        I haven’t looked much into volunteer roles, mostly because I don’t think I’d get them (my state has one of the highest volunteer rates per capita in the nation), but that’s a good thought.

    3. AndersonDarling*

      I can’t talk to the HR experience, but I wanted to mention that I got my degree from WGU and I’ve become much more marketable. It may or may not be the right decision to go back to school, but if you do, I can vouch for WGU.

      1. Emily, admin extraordinaire*

        Oh, I know all about WGU– I actually worked for them between graduating with my bachelors and starting my masters (in the assessment development department)! I’m in the application process with them right now and am awaiting my transcript evaluation to see how much my previous degrees will count for. My brother is also doing a MS in Cyber Security starting in May.

        Thanks for the recommendation, though– it’s nice to know that a WGU degree is helpful.

        1. krysb*

          Also, take DSST exams – they offer Human Resources Management and Organizational Behavior. Most schools accept DSST, so this will help you knock out a couple of classes for about $100 each.

    4. periwinkle*

      Just a note on certification: HRCI recently added an entry-level certification. If you’re not yet eligible for the PHR, you can earn the aPHR (Associate Professional in HR). It’s purely a knowledge exam and you do not need HR experience or degree.
      https://www.hrci.org/our-programs/our-certifications/aphr

      Getting the aPHR is no guarantee, but I think it might give you the edge for entry-level because it shows you have the knowledge groundwork even if you don’t yet have the experience.

      FYI, the PHR requires two years of exempt-level HR experience (one year if you have an HR grad degree) but since you’ve already got a non-HR Master’s degree, you’ll only need one year of HR experience (non-exempt or exempt) to qualify for the SHRM-CP.

      1. Emily, admin extraordinaire*

        That is good to know about the aPHR. I’m not planning on starting the BS until the fall if I do it, so it might be a good idea to try for the aPHR over the summer and see if that helps before starting the degree. Or maybe do them both?

        For the SHRM-CP, would my one year of experience 8 years ago qualify me to take that exam, or does the experience need to be more recent?

        For what it’s worth, the HR degree through WGU is aligned with the HRCI and SHRM recommendations for degrees.

    5. Lily in NYC*

      What about starting as an EA in an HR department? For my company, it’s the only EA role that is a stepping-stone to a promotion; every single assistant they’ve had has been promoted to HR rep after a year or so. Even the temps!

    6. lfi*

      if you are in the US – have you thought about taking the PHR/SHRM-CP? I know here (at least in the bay area) so many jobs post that it’s either a requirement or extremely preferred to have that. alternatively, you can also look at your local SHRM chapter for meetups, networking events, and courses.

    7. SaviourSelf*

      I don’t see another degree making you more marketable for HR. Many HR people do not have a degree in HR.

      I agree with others though on looking at either hybrid positions (admin/hr) which you’ll usually find at small companies or administrative positions within an HR department. That will be your proverbial foot in the door and you can move up from there.

      And as Periwinkle mentioned, the aPHR may help as well, but that largely depends on your location and the size of the employer to which you’re applying.

  61. Cruciatus*

    Today is day 5 of my new job at my same employer. I’m still probably not at my forever job, but I am still so much happier here. I have an office (mostly out of necessity for the position), and while I’m shipping books out to other libraries I can just listen to some tunes. I was one of the crew immediately. Everyone has been so helpful. Other people have even commented how much happier I seem. They were so welcoming to me right away and while I still have loads to learn and know it won’t always be perfect, I am not dreading going in to work. I’m not worried about what my supervisor’s mood will be that day. And I’m coming from a much more demanding office so it’s very amusing when they talk about interruptions here. They are maybe, like, once an hour. Old office was pretty much any time. I don’t have a lot of down time, but I had no idea how used to being interrupted I was constantly until I wasn’t interrupted constantly. Whoa! I can keep thoughts in my head. It’s so weird but my other job already feels so long ago (I didn’t take a break between jobs. Last Friday was my last day)! I haven’t wanted to go in yet even though it’s just down the hallway. I need some time away before I can go back in, I think. Fortunately no one has yet asked for help with much from there (at least that I needed to go into the office for). This is probably the best work move I’ve made yet (though it’s a limited selection, but still)! And I almost didn’t apply! D’oh!

  62. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    What’s the kindest small thing a boss ever did for you?

    I had a sort of informal job in college- I got a huge room for about half market rent at a campus ministry building for liberal Protestants. Didn’t have to convert people, just shovel the walk, clean a bit, rake leaves, not drink in the house, and either cook or clean up after the weekly meal event. And my boss was the pastor/owner.

    I mentioned that I was turning 21 on one of the days that there was the weekly lunch, and that my friend was 22 two days later. So the pastor bought takeout so I didn’t have the usual chores that day, plus a cake that had “happy birthday [name] and [name] on it!” I wasn’t getting on very well with my family at the time, because I had just come out to them, so it meant a lot to be remembered.

    1. Kowalski! Options!*

      It only lasted about 10 seconds or so, but I still remember it like it was yesterday: I had a temp job at a real estate agent’s office when I was younger, and one day, a guy got on the phone and started yelling and being super-abusive. My boss, who was a total East End Londoner, raised his eyebrows, signaled for me to give him the receiver, and once he had it, hollered down the line, “DON’T YOU DARE TALK TO MY ADMIN THAT WAY!!!”, and slammed the phone down. Then he made me a cup of tea.
      I’ve had supportive bosses since then, but never one who was that, er, assertive about it. Still makes me smile.

      2. Shamy*

        This is so great. My boss has done a lot of nice little things for me as well as big things. Random muffins, get well cards and sympathy cards for people, going the extra mile to be kind and helpful. When the interns were hired on as more permanent employees, she didn’t allow the permanent staff to continue treating us as interns.
        One of the nicest things she did was come to my mother’s viewing when she passed away. She had met my parents several times as my mom would bring my kids by on occasion and they got along famously. Meant a lot to me that she came.

        1. Kowalski! Options!*

          Ha! He was basically Kenneth Branagh, with a wider paunch. Until he opened his mouth and roared, anyway. :D

    2. Bigglesworth*

      As an admin, I don’t usually get work from home status since a lot of my job entails answering the phones and such. However, on the day of my great-uncle’s funeral, my boss let me know that I could work on our new resources website from home if I didn’t feel like I could come in. I really appreciated that. Even though it was my grandma’s brother that passed away, I knew him better than some of my actual aunts and uncles and loved him dearly. This was last October and I honestly was able to get more done on the website when I was at home than if I had been at work.

      1. WellRed*

        But, wouldn’t it have been preferable to have the day off? With pay? Rather then being told you could work from home? Maybe I am misreading…

        1. Bigglesworth*

          It would have cost one of my few PTO days that I had already scheduled off for a different event in the future. This way, I didn’t have to spend that day and I was honestly ok with it because I could focus on something else after the funeral service.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      It wasn’t directly for me, but a few years ago, my former roommate lost everything in a house fire. I was pretty upset and mentioned it to my manager. That Friday, I came in to work and found a $50 Kohl’s gift card on my desk to send to her.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        Wow, that was just above and beyond! What a kind thing to do for someone s/he probably never even met.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Not only did he never meet her, but she lived in a different state. He was a really good guy to work for.

    4. Lily in NYC*

      My boss heard someone ask me to go clean the microwave (that i never used), ran out of his office holding a pile of napkins he grabbed off his desk, and told the guy to clean it himself and to never ask me again. And then he sent an email to the entire dept. telling them that he was the only person allowed to delegate work to me and that cleaning up after people was not my job. He was my favorite boss ever and we still keep in very close touch.

    5. Ramona Flowers*

      Told me to take as much time as I needed after a terrible break-up (fiancé left me and I had nowhere to live, is the short version). And paid me for it.

    6. Borgette*

      I started my current role as contract-to-hire. The department Christmas party was in the middle of the day, and contractors were expressly forbidden from attending. My boss pushed pretty hard to get her contractors invited, and when administration didn’t budge, told us that we could ‘work from home’ that day.

    7. NaoNao*

      My boss from the collections call center let me write up my own “proof of compensation” letter and he signed it (it was all true, but since it was a very heavily commissions based job, we spun it so that the job I was applying for would see I “could” make “up to” 38,000 a year, instead of the 9$ and change I was really making). This helped me go from “rears in seats” shift work to a professional job and I’m very grateful.

    8. Anon for this*

      My last boss was a great boss to work for. He advocated for me in the company around budget season, stood behind me when things hit the fan, looked for training opportunities and interesting projects for me to gain experience, and got to know me on a personal level. When I graduated college he got me a bonsai, a card, and a balloon in a really low key way (left it on my desk when he was out of the office) and when I moved jobs he bought me a DNA test for my dog since we were both animal fans. A great boss.

  63. EddieSherbert*

    Had a company meeting to let us know layoffs are coming… I’m almost positive my department and my job are safe, but can’t help getting anxious about it all.

    I was looking at buying a house – Should I hold off the house hunt? Should I start polishing the resume just in case?

    How do people handle this kind of thing? Where you’re pretty close to positive your job is safe, but you can’t help getting worried?

    1. Graciosa*

      If they gave you notice that these were coming, I wouldn’t take on any extra expenses until after the layoffs have passed. These things are really not as predictable as people would like, and if you can imagine how you would feel with a new mortgage and no job, you’ll see why this is probably not a risk you want to take.

      There will still be real estate available in the market after the layoffs are over.

      If you’re paying cash (no mortgage) and are in a financial position to absorb the job loss with your cash tied up in a house, it may be sensible to go ahead anyway, but that would be my test.

      Good luck –

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Absolutely agree. I don’t want to make you paranoid, but no department is really safe. I’ve seen whole divisions outsourced and the employees laid off. HR, accounting, even those really specialized departments that you think no one else does the same work…they find a contractor that does it.
        I’ll keep my fingers crossed that you’re job is OK, but it doesn’t hurt to wait a month or two just to be sure.

        1. EddieSherbert*

          Don’t worry about it; I’m a worrier so I’m already there. Honestly, it’s kind of just validation that I’m not overreacting :)

          1. Anna Held*

            It’s a good idea to brush up your resume anyway. One of the best pieces of advice I got was to update it every year before you’ve had a chance to forget about accomplishments, trainings, etc. That way it’s always more-or-less ready when you need it.

    2. Dzhymm, BfD*

      Foreknowledge of layoffs is a luxury that few employees enjoy these days. Most of the time workers don’t know layoffs are coming until one day the axe falls. In a case such as yours I would definitely hold off on major financial decisions, polish up my resume, and maybe casually shop it around to get an idea of my employability.

      1. T3k*

        This this this. I wish I’d been told at my first job they were going to lay off someone as I could have planned out my finances, job searching, better. It was a very big shock too because I had always gotten excellent reviews then suddenly got the “we’re letting you go” deal.

    3. Tris Prior*

      I am in this situation right now. I’m shoving as much money as possible into easily accessible savings – cut back on my 401k contributions, which were high, so that I could put more into accounts that I can actually withdraw from. I’m putting off major purchases that I’d planned, updating my resume, starting to look around, just in case. Even though they don’t think our team is going to be hit, you never know, and better to be prepared.

      It sucks to have to put life on hold until they finish cutting whoever they’re going to cut, but it’s better than getting caught with higher expenses than normal and suddenly no income.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        Oh, the 401(k) bit is a good idea. I mean, it stinks to feel like that’s what you need to do, but it is a good idea!
        My SO went back to school this past year – which we as a couple decided was a good move – but I’m the only income. So definitely focused on our savings right now…

    4. Sualah*

      You wouldn’t want to drain your savings for the house right now, but if you were looking at only doing a small down payment anyway and if the mortgage payment (total payment – principal, interest, property taxes, insurance, and any HOA and utilities) is about equal to your current housing payment, it might not be that bad.

      Very, very, very worst case scenario and you have no job and no money for housing: foreclosing on your house is harder to do than eviction.

      Also, it’s very rare that you find a house you love right away. So it might be worth to start looking at places, even just checking out Zillow and open houses and such.

      I’d definitely start working on the resume while you still have access to all your current job description information and emails with special projects, kudos, etc.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        Yeah, we’ve been looking for awhile and we haven’t loved anything yet anyways. So it certainly won’t hurt to hold off. It’s just disappointing!

    5. Thlayli*

      Personally I would plan for all options but not make any final decisions. Look at houses to narrow down your search and see if you can find out the final prices but don’t make any actual offers. Look for jobs and get an idea what is out there, and apply to any really good ones but don’t go into full-on “I’ll take anything I can get” panic.

    6. Vpc*

      And keep in mind that the house is not just the down payment, either – moving expenses, utility hookup fees, the stuff you never needed before but need to buy now like a lawnmower. In my state there were pre-purchase add-ons too, like getting the plot surveyed and the house appraised. All together it cost me about $10k over the down payment in the first six months. To be fair that did include some stuff like a roof leak and fixing the heater, and I paid a lower purchase price knowing those issues were on the table.

      So yeah, look but don’t plan to buy until you know the outcome of the layoffs.

  64. Josephine*

    I’m currently looking for a new job, and I hope to have an interview with one company soon. One of the (many) reasons I’m looking is because I’ve only received two raises in over 5 years at my current company – 5% one year after I started, and a 3% raise two years after that. This is despite my responsibilities growing and consistently delivering and performing well. There is no system in place for yearly raises here, and I’ve avoided asking because it always seems like money is tight. Then last month, I was given a pay cut because the company hit a very rocky point (I know other employees got pay cuts, but I’m not sure if all did – and a big chunk of the company was laid off) and now I make less than when I started. I was toughing it out before because I liked my job and where I work and was planning to continue after the pay cut for 6 months and hope for a return to my previous salary – mostly because I was afraid of getting a new job and hating it – and if there was no change I was going to start looking. Plus my commute is very short. But a lot of things have changed with my role and responsibilities since the layoffs/pay cuts and I’m getting very burned out, and I’m ready to move on now.

    With that being said, when I have interviews and ask questions can I ask what the raise system is like? I’m afraid that will come across entitled, but I don’t want to end up in another job where raises don’t happen. What’s the best way to phrase a question about this?

    1. Lily in NYC*

      I just want to be sure you are managing your expectations with this – it is very, very common not to get a raise every year (depending on the industry I guess). I understand wanting to leave, but I don’t think you should ask that question in an interview. It should not be discussed until you get an offer. Good luck – I hope you find something that pays you what you deserve!

  65. Kowalski! Options!*

    This is only marginally related to work, I guess, but…Bike to Work Week starts in Teapotopolis next week. It’s coinciding with a week of decent weather, which has me excited.
    Are there many folks on here who bike to work? Does your company provide specific facilities (locked storage areas, showers, etc.) that can be used by people who bike to work?

    1. Tau*

      I cycle to work. For me, it’s more habit than anything else – my family are all cyclists and I started cycling to school when I was twelve, so it’s my default mode of transport over distances around 1-10km. Honestly, my current route to work is not great and I wouldn’t recommend to anyone who isn’t a habitual cyclist anyway. I’m job-searching and am hoping the next job will have better cycle access.

      There’s roofed cycle racks, which are handy. Other than that, I… am honestly going to admit that I’ve never quite understood the necessity of cyclist lockers/showers/etc.. It’s not like I treat the commute to work like a race – I ride at an easy pace, and although there’s a few hills they’re perfectly manageable. So I don’t see the point of changing clothes specifically for the ride, or taking a shower when I literally had one an hour ago. I just cycle in my regular clothes, and don’t feel the need for any special facilities beyond “safe place to lock my bike where it won’t get rained on”.

      1. Kowalski! Options!*

        Yeah, I’m with you about the showers, though I can see why they’d be useful for people who also run or do boot camp at lunch time (it gets stinkin’ humid here during the summer). We also have an employee-run fitness centre in the complex, but I don’t know if they have their own change rooms and shower there, or if they use the showers by the bike storage area.

    2. Here we go again*

      I bike to work a few days a week. Our office has a separate storage facility for bikes. There is a gym with showers on site, but my commute is only about 20 minutes so I don’t use it and I don’t think many bikers do either – just people working out on the treadmill or elliptical.

    3. CatCat*

      My plan was to start cycling to work in May, but the park I would need to cycle through has been flooded for three months (it is an overflow area for a nearby river). This effectively cuts off pedestrian and cyclists from going from one part of town to the other unless they take the major highway. It is permitted to take the highway for this purpose, but I am not brave enough to pedal along that little shoulder with cars zooming by at 65-80 miles per hour. I’m planning to contact my elected representatives about it, but any fix would be years and years away.

      Once the park drains, I will be starting a cycling plan. I have it all mapped out and attended an urban cycling class a couple weeks ago. I feel ready!

    4. Thinking Outside the Boss*

      We have both a bike room and a shower facility for our building. The shower facility is nice because we have a 32-mile bike trail that connects to downtown, so we have quite a few people who do a spring/summer/fall bike commute of 15-20 miles every day. It’s nice to have a shower for that type of ride. I should take advantage of it, but once I got free parking with my promotion, I’ve turned into a slug.

    5. AnonAcademic*

      I do a combination of biking and taking the train to work. It’s a popular commute option where I work (an academic campus) so there is plenty of bike parking, courtesy stations where you can fill tires with air or do basic repairs, as well as a bike shop. Regarding showers, the most I ride in a day is around 15 miles and even in the summer, it’s not anything some strategic fabric layering and baby wipes can’t take care of. I build in 5 minutes to get presentable if I’m biking to a meeting or something but that’s about it. It really becomes a habit more than anything after a while rather than a whole big “thing.”

    6. Overeducated*

      I do sometimes (around twice a week). My ride is about 35 minutes and I change my clothes because I feel like the seat area gets sweaty and can smell, so it’s just enough bother to not do daily.

      We’re getting into the hot half of the year and due to an office move we’re about to lose our one (cold water only) shower, which I am very unhappy about. I live in a hot, humid area and I am not sure I will be able to keep cycling through the summer with no way to rinse off.

    7. Cassandra*

      I live a bit over a mile from work, so I’m a three-season bicycle commuter. (When the streets get icy I walk.) We have a few bike lockers, but I take my chances with the bike racks, combined with a good lock and a city-issued sticker.

      For such a short distance, I don’t need shower facilities.

    8. Thlayli*

      I wouldn’t cycle to work unless there was a shower available. That would lead to stickiness and stinkiness.

  67. JustaTech*

    Update from last week’s question “should I ignore people who can’t recycle”: It turns out that 1) other people were more annoyed than me about the non-recyclers and non-composters and 2) we have a sustainability officer! (She just got that title, which is why I didn’t know.)

    So now I have found the appropriate person to address our composting and recycling issues without me having to do anything but agree with someone else in a meeting! And it is needful; I watched a coworker put a banana peel in the recycling bin. (I fished it out. And in his defense the labels on the bins weren’t visible.)

    Very pleased!

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Good for you! I am known as the “green freak” in my office because I’m very careful about recycling, turning off lights, compiling materials instead of constantly ordering more, etc.

    2. ..Kat..*

      Bin labels need to be clearly visible and understood as to what they mean! How can people get it right if they have to guess?

      1. JustaTech*

        They’re color-coded to the industry standard (blue = recycle, green = compost) and have small labels. I just made bigger labels.

  68. Rye-Ann*

    I am not a manager, but I would be interested in hearing managers’ perspectives on this question (or even just people with more experience than me, I’ve only been out of school for about 2 years). Let’s say you have an employee who is struggling in their role. How do you tell whether this is due to them being new, or if they’re just not cut out for it?

    1. Lilo*

      So I specifically have been working as a trainer for new people at my job.

      The issue is time and direction. I wouldn’t freak out over a couple weeks of bad performance, but a couple months is a big deal. You also look at whether this is a task that they have done before. If this is someone’s first or second time doing a task, not a big deal. But fifth? Then you worry (depending of couse in diificulty).

      I think there is also a combination of quality and speed. Someone going too fast and messing up is different for someone taking a long time and still messing up.

      You also look at progress. Some backtracking is expected but you want to see an overall improvement trend. Also, if you have provided clear guidance and feedback and issues continue, that is more worrying.

      I have found a clear “this needs to change” really works. I have had people I worried about, I was frank on their exact problems, and they almost always managed to turn it around. If ypu have expressed clearly and made eat it was serious and you don’t get a turnaround, then you worry.

      I think it is important never to jump too quickly. For someone time and support and feedback.

    2. Rosamond*

      If it’s a role I’ve hired and trained people for before, I have a good sense of how long it takes a competent person to get up to speed on the basics. If they’re falling behind that, I know it’s not just because they’re new.

      Also, most employees I’ve had who struggled beyond what’s expected of a new hire would tell me as much. Not that they’d deliberately tell me “I’m struggling,” but rather: If I said, “This is falling by the wayside and I need you to focus and make sure it gets done,” rather than responding positively and discussing a plan for improving, they’d tell me that what I was asking was impossible, or not important, or that they were already handling it just fine.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Depends on what they are struggling with and whether they’re things that someone can learn to do better.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Usually it takes time to figure it out. And there are many clues, it’s not just one thing. Generally if it’s one thing, a boss can help with that or find work-arounds. There are exceptions of course, so this is just general.

      I have found that with some tasks people who are going to eventually catch on are doing things to help themselves to catch on quicker. Whether it’s quicker or not is moot, they are understanding that they need to take extra steps to get up to speed. (One time I went to an informal mentor for help. I pulled out a legal tablet to write on and my pen. With that, she said, “you are going to get through the learning curve.” It’s a visual cue, people take steps so they remember what is needed, they eventually get into the swing of it.)

      Sometimes you can see by the questions they ask. If I am explaining something to a person and they are following along, there is a progression to their questions. The questions get harder or they get more detailed, sometimes the person will want to talk about real life examples of things they have already encountered. You can see the light bulb light right up.

      A drowning person lets you know. Things overwhelm them. A good warning sign is when things overwhelm them that shouldn’t. I had to turn on a cohort’s computer everyday. After about the third day, I said no. It was painful to watch what happened next. Then she had to type up a document. That went about the same as turning on the computer.

      OTH, I worked with a person who was not technology savvy, but this person has spent her entire life being very clever. Since this was her life habit, I only had to show her something once and the next day she took what I did, brought it one step further and taught me something. While this person was not aware of some features, I could ask questions and she had an answer. “Would you like me to assign that symbol to a short cut key for you?”
      Without missing a beat she gave a firm YES. These are examples of willingness to follow along in unfamiliar territory. Being unfamiliar is not a problem, being UNwilling is a huge problem.

      One place I worked a person was afraid to run a certain machine. My issue was not that she was afraid of it, I was, too, at first. My issue was that she did not tell me she had concerns. I can’t help with problems that I don’t know about. That situation got really big and it just did not have to get that big.

      Which brings me to what a person does with their mistakes. Pretty much by the time I start training people at a place, I can fix most mistakes. I cannot fix a person who refuses to tell me they made a mistake. Some people will not stop when they see they have a mistake or a problem, they keep going. In some cases this means the problem gets bigger and bigger. What I could have fixed in five minutes, grows into something that takes me an hour or two to fix. The person’s inability to say they are having difficulty is at the core of this problem. It’s not the mistake that gets them in trouble, it’s refusing to ask for help.

  69. Ang the SA*

    So this is kinda work related. I love flowers and love getting flowers. My husband usually gets me flowers for Valentines day, my birthday, and our Anniversary and normally sends them to my work. It just so happens that all of these dates are a couple months apart so sometimes I can get flowers every 2 months. I love it but am starting to feel a bit self conscious since none of the other women in my office get flowers this much. (a few get them on Valentine’s Day but most get none at all. I don’t want anyone to think I am trying to show off. Should I maybe ask him to send them to the house?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Personally, I think that if you like to receive flowers, you should receive them at the place you’re going to be spending that day. If those three events all fall on a work day, I see no reason why you shouldn’t be able to enjoy your flowers for 8 hours of your day. Anyone who thinks you are showing off is coming from a place of jealousy, and that is a Them problem, not a You problem.

    2. Anxa*

      I’m a woman and my boyfriend bought me flowers exactly once, while waiting to pick me up at an airport when we were long distance.

      We’ve been together a long time and while I absolutely love flowers, I would rather he spend his money on other things.

      I would hate to think that another woman felt self-conscious about conspicuous flower enjoyment just because I am frugal.

      I would worry more about potential allergies, fragrance sensitivities, and if handling the flowers gets in the way of anybody else.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I never get flowers but I enjoy other people’s. So if you didn’t mind me cruising by and smelling them now and then (if they smell good), then we’re okay. :)

      1. Thlayli*

        I also am not a flower at work receiver, and I also love it when other people get them.

        If anyone gets upset at this then that says more about them than you.

    4. Ang the SA*

      Thanks everyone for the responses. I normally get flowers that are not so fragrant because they make me sneeze. They just sit in my cube and I take them home sometime within a couple of days. People are more than welcome to come by and smell them ooo and aaahh at them.

      After typing and submitted I felt really silly being so self conscious. So again thanks everyone for confirming that.

  70. Critter*

    Has anyone ever worked with an employment lawyer before? How did you find them? What was the experience like?

    1. AndersonDarling*

      I googled “employment attorney” + location. I had to root through a lot of listing because some attorneys have “employment law” tucked away on a long list of other subjects they specialize in. I quickly found out that if employment law is on a list, it means the attorney doesn’t do employment law.
      You need to find an attorney that just does employment law.
      If they are good, they get lots of calls and requests. In my case, I had to fill out some paperwork about my situation, and then I got a call to set up an appointment. I guess if I didn’t really have a case, I wouldn’t have gotten a call.
      My attorney worked on a Contingency Fee of 33%. So I didn’t owe anything until I received my settlement…a year later.
      You can also look up articles about lawsuits in your local Business Journal. If there is a big lawsuit against a company, they will list the attorney. The big time attorneys need to take on little cases while they are tackling the big ones. It never hurts to give them a call.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Oh, and one of the attorneys I called represented employers instead of employees. But they told me the attorney they hate to be up against. That was how I ended up with my employment attorney. So if you end up talking to someone who represents businesses, you can ask if they know of a good attorney to represent employees. As long as they don’t represent the company you want to sue, they will tell you who to call.

        1. Naruto*

          You can also try searching for one who represents plaintiffs or employees. Usually employment attorneys will be on one side or the other for all of their cases.

  71. Amber Rose*

    What’s the rule on dealing with awful/inappropriate staff at a restaurant during a work lunch?

    Husband was out with boss and coworkers for lunch when the waitress commented about needing to lose weight for a wedding, then leaned over and scratched his stomach, which basically pissed him off but he didn’t feel like he could say or do anything because his boss was there.

    Personally, I don’t feel that there’s ever a time when you should have to accept being touched creepily by a stranger or have your weight insulted, but I know that punching her in the face (I might have) or yelling at her would have been a bad idea.

    This is kind of like a follow up from the hugging conversation I know, but in this case it wasn’t even intended to be friendly. Also [insert lengthy, profanity strewn rant here about touching people without permission and fat shaming] I’m still upset and wondering how the hell these people get jobs.

    1. Sadsack*

      I would also have been upset over this. I’d probably wait until after the lunch, then call the restaurant manager to complain. I hate to see anyone lose a job, but come on, how rude and insulting can you expect to be to your customers?

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Oh hell no. I would have spoken up and said “Please don’t touch me” immediately. If there wasn’t an apology, I would have gone and spoken with the manager on my way out.

    3. Marisol*

      With boss and coworkers, I think you’d want to respond by setting a firm boundary, exactly as you would in any other situation. The only reason I can think of for not setting a boundary is if you were entertaining clients and didn’t want there to be any friction or discomfort. In that case, you might laugh it off. But in the presence of a boss, you want to demonstrate a healthy sense of self worth. So I think it might have been better to speak up, and simply say something like, “excuse me. That was totally inappropriate” and wait for an apology.

    4. Lightly-chewed Jimmy*

      Honestly, if anyone else saw it I’ll bet they’re baffled & creeped-out too.
      I’d contact the restaurant and make a complaint now, even if it’s a few days later, because that was so completely inappropriate and creepy it’s giving secondhand squick.

    5. Thlayli*

      Wtaf? She’s gonna do that to the wrong person some day and get a broken arm! Who does that!

      I honestly would have been too shocked to say anything if it happened to me so I don’t think it will be considered weird that he didn’t say anything. Totally appropriate to complain though even if boss is there.

    6. Mrs. Fenris*

      A surprising number of people think that men aren’t sensitive about their weight. My husband is overweight and I don’t even want to think about how he would have reacted to this.

  72. Anons*

    For an IT job fair, what should a man wear? A family member working on getting into IT plans to go to one, but it’s been well 15 years since either of us have attended any sort of job fair. Should it be suit and tie? Or more business casual (like a blazer and button down, but no tie)?

    2. CAA*

      Khakis and a polo and some kind of non-athletic shoes. If he’s in DC, then he could go as formal as a slacks and a blazer, but anywhere else I’ve been that would be way too dressed up.

  73. Dzhymm, BfD*

    This is another one of those “should-I-reapply-and-when” type questions:

    About four months ago I was in job-hunting mode and I was talking to two companies. Company A was really REALLY eager to hire me, but I was leaning towards Company B. Company B has a very deliberate hiring process and told me they were not likely to move fast, wherease Company A had extended me an offer that was expiring soon.

    The position I was applying for at Company B was a senior software developer position. I had passed the initial phone screen, so they then sent me a programming problem to solve (“Here is the problem, you have one hour to email us a solution”). I was not in my best form that day and the solution I had at the one-hour mark did not work completely. Later that day I submitted another solution that did work (a few hours later I had one of those head-slapping moments where the elegant solution I *should* have used popped into my head.. duh!)

    The next day I received the usual polite brush-off “We have decided not to move forward with your candidacy at this time”. I dont know if the reason for this was the less-than-stellar performance on the coding test, or the fact that I told them I was on a tight deadline with my other offer, or some other factor.

    In the meantime I’m not having a good time of it at Company A and would like to give Company B another shot. In this circumstance, would four months be too soon to reapply? Should I come right out and ask them “Should I consider reapplying, or was my coding test so bad that I should not bother?” Thoughts?

    1. Reba*

      No reason not to reach out to the recruiter you worked with, although they may be unwilling or unable to be frank with you. “I’m still interested in joining Company B. My performance in the previous interview process did not reflect my abilities, and I’d like to have a chance to show Company B what I can do. I’d be grateful to have your honest opinion on my chances for any positions open now/do you think it makes sense for me to apply?”

    2. Thlayli*

      It sounds like you applied for a specific job at company B. You can’t really apply for the same job twice that quickly. But if they have a different job posted definitely apply for that particularly if it’s a lower level one.

  74. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    How much fidgeting/stretching in an open office is annoying to others? I am a kind of anxious person and have a lot of energy, so sitting at the same desk all day is hard for me. I often jiggle my foot or quietly tap my fingers, and stretch my arms or back out every half hour or so.

    1. Rebecca*

      I don’t think that’s excessive at all, and it’s good to get up and walk around to avoid stiffness, blood clots, etc. At my job, I have 2 15 minute paid breaks, and an unpaid lunch break, and I take full advantage of them to get up and walk outside. It helps so much. In between times, if I print things, I may take a few extra steps just to stretch my legs.

      I do try not to jiggle my foot, though, but it’s so hard!! I earned the nickname “thumper” when I occupied an office above someone and didn’t realize how much I was doing it :)

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        I had a Newfoundland/Lab mix as a little kid (so basically, long-coated black thing with the smaller Lab frame), and she was “Thumper,” because she would always thump up the stairs to sleep in the hall; her tail and back feet were always slipping and thumping on them.

    2. CAA*

      Ask your neighbors to please tell you if you’re bothering them.

      The number one most annoying thing you can do if you’re near me is move in a way that causes our shared furniture to jiggle or vibrate rhythmically. I know people don’t realize that when they’re just bouncing their leg that it’s hitting their desk and that the desk on the other side of the partition is moving as a result. I hate that!

    3. EddieSherbert*

      I only fill my water up about halfway; so I usually get up about once an hour to go over and refill it. That helps me out a lot!

      I do a lot of the stretching too.

    4. Louise*

      crazy aaron’s thinking putty literally saves my life. so fun to fidget and play with, especially when I’m having a tough time thinking through something. it’s totally quiet and you’d be surprised how many other people are similarly fidgety and want to play with it too!

    5. Marisol*

      I have adhd, which means that not only am I fidgety, but I am annoyed by other people’s fidgets! It’s a win-win situation!

      Seriously, the main thing that bugs me is sounds. So the finger tapping would be a no-no for me, as well as expressive exhalations or any sort of sound effect. Stretching or moving around wouldn’t have any effect. If someone is loitering however, that drives me crazy–so like if you took a stroll away from your desk and just started to hover somewhere within my line of sight, that would be unnerving. Don’t know if those things are universal, or just my quirks.

  75. a girl has no name*

    I don’t know if I should be bothered by this or not.

    I am young (late-20s) and early in my career. In the past two weeks I have been called kiddo and our little helper. This is not the first time these types of comments have come my way. I work for an organization that no one ever leaves. There are people who have been here for 30+ years (longer than I have been alive). They comment on how new I am (I have been here for 4 years) and regularly say I am such a baby.

    I am trying to make a name for myself. I work hard, and I am privy to a lot of confidential information. I really need people to have faith that I know what I am doing, and I can do it well. I feel like all of these comments are taking away from that. Should I somehow try to put a stop to it or just accept that it’s not malicious, and it’s a weird company culture thing?

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      No, it’s belittling and insulting. I think you’re 100% in the clear to push back against it. I advocate the “…kiddo? What an odd thing to call me.” “New? What an odd thing to say, I’ve been here for four years” approach. Return awkwardness to sender.

    2. animaniactoo*

      In the moment: “Please don’t call me that”

      and “Hmmm… I’d say I was more of a young adult.” with a calm smile.

      See if that gets you anywhere. If you get pushback, simply say you’ve graduated college, you’ve been there for 4 years, and you recognize that they’ve been there at lot longer, but you’re not a newby or a mascot, and you’d appreciate it if they’d recognize that in their terminology.

    3. Cookie*

      No advice, just empathy. I get called a “young pup,” and it definitely feels like I’m being dismissed and devalued. But most of our staff are in their 60s and this has been their one and only job for 30+ years. I’m looking for a new job and would steer clear of any place where employees stay more than a few years and/or I don’t see any young faces when I visit the office.

    4. CM*

      I would be bothered but I don’t know if I would do anything about it, other than trying to amp up your professionalism and avoid discussions about your age. In an organization like this, I think it would come across as adversarial or even naive/silly to push back against these comments.

    5. Snazzy Hat*

      I’m in my early thirties and constantly worry I come across as considerably younger; it doesn’t help that I’ve barely changed in appearance since high school. I’ve heard “kiddo” from a few co-workers over the years. One was a motherly figure — not the “office mom” — and I still felt respected by her, joining her at lunch on multiple occasions. The other was earlier this week, a very friendly and dynamic older gentleman who hadn’t met me before this week, so I brushed it off and thought “if you call me that again, I’ll laugh and inform you I’m older than my supervisor”.

      You seem to be in a good pushback situation since you’ve been there for years & know what you’re doing. Definitely go with the “what an odd thing to say” option our scientist friend suggested.

      If you want to be particularly weird, you’re welcome to give them the horrible truth that you only look young and you’re actually a vampire.

    6. Marisol*

      Kiddo wouldn’t bother me because, although informal and not the best language to use, it references age only and not ability or job function. If a guy in his 60’s calls me, a woman in her 40’s, “kiddo” I would see it as a reflection of a simple fact. Not defending the use of the word, just my personal reaction to it.

      “Our little helper” might not bother me if I were in a helping role, although I might not like it. If a peer called me that, however, I’d probably be livid because I would see it as a way to frame the power dynamic where I was subordinate to him. So that would get called out immediately. “No, I’m not your helper. I’m your peer. So we help each other. I don’t like being called your little helper.”

      I don’t have enough info to say whether or not this is a malicious thing. If you are otherwise generally treated well, if you have enough responsibility within the company and are not being held back, then I’d say it’s probably not malicious. It’s probably fine to speak up if the language bothers you, something like, “hey, the kiddo thing makes me uncomfortable. I’m a professional just like you and I’d rather you call me by my name, ok?” But whether or not that is the best strategy would depend on the personalities of the individuals calling you kiddo.

      That’s not very conclusive, sorry.

    7. Merci Dee*

      Maybe it’s just my contrarian nature, but I would be sorely tempted to reply back with some similar comments. When someone called me a baby, I’d want to laugh and respond with, “Okay, grandpa/grandma, I’ll be happy to help you cross the street tonight when you’re walking to your car.” Or something along those lines. Chances are good that these kinds of comments would die down.

      My other choice of a response would be nothing but a bland look with a head tilt. Say nothing, but just continue to make eye contact until the offender is visibly discomfited.

      1. Thlayli*

        This seems like the best option to me. When they say “kiddo” or similar you reply by calling them “old man” or something every time. Tone of voice is the important thing so try to match them. If they are saying it in a friendly way you say it friendly and if they say it in a condesending way you say it condescendingly. That way no one can say you are overreacting because you are doing exactly the same as them.

    8. KR*

      I think in these circumstances you have full permission to give then a LOOK in the moment. My favorite is a puzzled, “Excuse me?” with the kind of look that says, “Did you just say that?” Something else you can say is, “You know, I hear that a lot and it does get old.” Honestly, you can get away with “Please don’t say that. I know I’m a lot younger than a lot of people here but it gets demeaning.” You have my sympathy. I’m just starting a new job and so far I haven’t seen that kind of thing but it happened all the time at my old job.

    9. Lison*

      For me it depends on intent of the person, someone calls me something I don’t like seldom and I hear them use the same with others who are on their level and they generally show respect I let it go. If it does annoy me I say “please don’t call me that” their reaction to the request tells me a lot about them. It has so far worked and they stopped. Apart from ‘manager the worst’ who I asked to stop calling me “young lady” he was my age or younger and displayed a general disrespect to all women. Next tIme he called me young lady I said “I’ve asked you not to call me that” he replied “No offence, it’s what I call my daughter” (not sure how in his mind that made it better!!) and I replied “It is offensive you need to stop” He stopped, probably helps that where I am this reasonable request would count against him if there was any issue about me being let go.

    10. a girl has no name*

      Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Super helpful! This community has been such a great resource for me. I appreciate it.

  76. Gene*

    We are finally doing hiring interviews to replace the employee who died. It’s been a long, difficult couple of years and we’ve shed a lot of things we used to do. Some aren’t done anymore and some are now done by other work groups. I’m comfortable that we have three strong candidates, and I’ve given my feedback to my boss and his boss, who are doing the final interviews. We could be at full strength next month!

    Then my boss will retire, and these monkeys will probably be mine, in my circus. And I’ll get to do the whole hiring thing again…

    1. fposte*

      It’s over a year, right? I think of this when people complain about moving slow around my office.

      1. Gene*

        A bit over two years now. But, due to other stuff going on, we didn’t start the first round of recruiting until about a year ago. That’s all been resolved, we’ve reorganized how we are going to do things going forward, gotten rid of things that we had just started doing because no one else was doing them, and are set up for a leaner group going forward.

        When I started here 26 years ago, we had 3 inspectors, 2 techs, an admin person, a rotating operator position, and a supervisor. Going forward we will have 2 inspectors, 1 inspector/tech flexible position, and a supervisor. We won’t be able to do all the ‘nice to do’ things, but will be able to do the things that are required by Federal law. It’s been a bit tough, the other inspector still here was really invested in one of those ‘nice to do’ things; but it isn’t core to our mission. If the other work group who really wants us to do it want it done, they can staff it and do it. I even separated that part out of our main ordinance and wrote a whole new ordinance to address it.

        Back to writing permits…

    2. Gene*

      Report from boss:

      He and his boss rated the three pretty much the same way I did, two of them essentially equal in skills and probable fit, the third a bit less so. One of the first two will probably get an offer next week.

      I’ve let my preference between the two be known, boss agrees with me. His boss apparently leans to the other one. Looking good!

  77. CB*

    Non-local job searching:
    I know this has been covered before, but I’m still going back and forth on this.
    I moved from very big city to very small city 18 months ago and have decided I want to move back. For a number of reasons, I haven’t found full-time work here although I have done some freelance and part-time work (the p/t work is not on my resume). There is a tenant in my VBC apartment, so I can’t get back in there until end of summer, but I could certainly sublet or stay with family if I did find a new job before then.
    The question is whether I need to mention in my cover letters that I’m not currently located in VBC. There is nothing on my resume that references my current location (about 250 miles away) and I would not ask for relocation.
    Thoughts? I’m solidly mid-career if that makes a difference.
    Thanks!

    1. Anna Held*

      I wouldn’t. You won’t even get looked at some places, especially if you’re not a perfect fit. If it comes up, explain, but otherwise I wouldn’t worry. Just make sure you really can move in a week or two if they want a short start date.

  78. AnonyMeow*

    Has anyone dealt with ZipRecruiter’s request for providing references to “enhance” a job seeker’s profile?

    A former colleague of mine asked me to provide references (which I’m more than happy to do). I received an email from a “Charlie” from ZipRecruiter to fill out a reference form. The form asks for my name, email address, title, company name, etc., along with what I’d say about my former colleague.

    I’m kinda uncomfortable providing personal information to a job board without knowing how it’ll be used, so I emailed back to ask how my information will be used (shown publicly for any employers to see, used to send marketing emails to me, etc.). “Charlie” sent an auto-response saying I should contact support, which makes me wonder if this “Charlie” is even a real person (supposedly a career advisor). Maybe I’m too paranoid, but I’m just not getting a good vibe from all this.

    If anyone has experience doing this, I’d love to hear how that went.

  79. Charlie*

    So I got in trouble this morning at work. Apparently we have a no firearms policy I wasn’t aware of, and I brought my Desert Eagle .50 to work.

    My boss came up to me and demanded to know what was going on, and why the hell I was carrying an enormous pistol.

    “Well, boss, it’s in case the Decepticons have infiltrated, and I want to be ready to fight them off.”

    My boss laughed. I laughed. The printer laughed. I shot the printer.

    HR changed the policy.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        It went right over my head but I’m going to assume it’s a movie reference (because I never get movie references unless it’s Monty Python or Caddyshack).

        1. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

          I’ve seen similar jokes with a sword/axe and a laughing treasure chest. :)

  80. Purple Snowdrop*

    I was talking to a colleague from my team when they suddenly started making horrible comments about a minority group. Their explanation for the comments kind of made sense (in a really disturbing​ ‘please stop telling that horrible story’ kind of way) but in a ‘yeah but you’re still advocating violence wtf?!’ kind of way. It was really horrible. I don’t think they were literally meaning that people should be violent against them but that was the words used.

    Colleague picked up that i was uncomfortable and said something like i hope i didn’t upset you but i was shocked, horrified and upset, and didn’t even feel able to say that thing that gets suggested here of ‘i hope you’re not saying that because you think i agree’. I think if I’d engaged in the topic the only thing that would have come out of my mouth would be HOLY CRAP DID YOU REALLY JUST SAY THAT?!

    If i told anyone in work he’d be in serious trouble.
    A) is there anything else gentle i could have said?
    B) should i say anything else now… either to him or to anyone else?

    (Regular using a different name)

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      Why bother with gentle? “Dude, that’s a horrible thing to say. I’m kind of horrified you’re actually referencing ethnic violence. Please never say anything like that to me again, ever.”

      Your “HOLY CRAP DID YOU ACTUALLY JUST SAY THAT” would have been fine too.

      Getting uncomfortable but conciliatory just continues to carve out the safe space that casual bigotry occupies. He said it to you because he was pretty sure you’d agree. This stuff has to carry social consequences.

      1. Purple Snowdrop*

        You’re right.
        He was just so normal about it! Like it wasn’t a weird thing to say!
        Your reply is really reassuring. I might practise saying this stuff out loud so I’m more likely to be able to say it next time.
        Thank you.

        1. Reba*

          I think practicing is a great idea! Also remembering that feeling uncomfortable in these situations is A) normal, it *is* uncomfortable and for good reason and B) not your fault, the other party is the one blasting through the rules of appropriate behavior.

          I also encourage you to bring it up to your coworker, just to make clear that their statements were Not Cool in the extreme. I’m sure others will have good suggested scripts. I’d say something like, “I wanted to respond to your comments the other day about X. At the time I was so shocked by what you were saying that I couldn’t come up with a reply. But I want to let you know that I strongly disagree and I find what you said promoting violence to be really beyond the pale. I don’t think you should say things like that and definitely not at work, and I’m asking you never to say that stuff around me again.” If you know your workplace has policy relevant to this you could bring that up too.

          They might get touchy but again, that’s not on you. Depending on how they respond you could decide whether to take it higher or let it lie.

          1. Snazzy Hat*

            At the time I was so shocked by what you were saying that I couldn’t come up with a reply.

            Italicizing that because it carries so much weight. The whole script is perfect, and this line is a polite version of “Since then I’ve been thinking about what you said and I’ve finally been able to organize my thoughts in a way that isn’t simply yelling and swearing at you.”

          2. Purple Snowdrop*

            Thanks Reba that’s really helpful.

            Honestly I’m still upset about it and still kind of want to cry. Partly because earlier that day he’d been voicing really progressive views.

            The most obvious person to talk to about it would be my own line manager but they are extremely conflict-averse :(

        2. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

          Yeah, I’ve actually practiced stuff like that. It’s so bizarre, because the person is so far off the reservation you can’t think of what to do at the time. It’s just like you freeze and you’re like, oh god, please send your angels to rescue me in my time of awkwardness

  81. Manders*

    I’ve been doing some spring cleaning in my overstuffed closet, and I realized something weird: I’ve chosen most of my work clothes to hide who I am outside the office. In my personal life, I’m a big old nerd and I love brightly colored vintage outfits and showcasing my fandoms through what I wear. In the office, everything’s one color (usually black, grey, or dark blue) with no patterns and no accessories besides my wedding ring. I work in a pretty conservative office for my area, but still, my work style is *boring.*

    How do you choose work clothes that show a little personality? Any leads on SFF-referencing jewelry that still looks office-appropriate? Maybe it’s just the gloomy weather, but I’m thiiiiiiis close to flouting the rules about natural hair dyes just to get some color in my style.

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I think that’s a feature, not a bug. You could pick a few more accessories and colors, as you naturally pick up new stuff, but I really don’t look at work as an opportunity to express my personality. It’s not hiding who you are, it’s presenting the facet of yourself that’s appropriate for work. I think you could include some scarves and accessories and a few interesting colors – I’m wearing a white shirt with black and purple windowpane check today – but I think the fandom and retro stuff occupies the same place in your life that climbing shorts and flip-flops do for me.

      1. Marisol*

        Seconded. I was going to commend Manders for not falling into the trap that women fall into, namely, of thinking their work clothes should express their personality rather than convey professionalism.

        Manders, you could look at Christiane LaGuarde’s wardrobe. She typically wears solid colors and simple silhouettes and then adds a big colorful (and expensive) scarf. And her jewelry is often just a touch blingy.

        You could probably get away with shoes and glasses (if you wear them) that are a touch funky too, provided that the rest of your outfit is sedate.

        1. The OG Anonsie*

          I mean, your professional wardrobe does express your personality no matter what. And it should be, really, communicating your role and how you want people to deal with you. That’s personality but it can always be done in a way that’s professionally acceptable, even in very conservative environments.

          For me, my very plain work uniform is a big indicator of my personality. It’s kind of androgynous and neutral but with an occasional unusual looking accessory that’s low-key enough to go largely unnoticed unless someone was trying to size me up.

          1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

            And you can communicate aspects of yourself in very subtle ways. I’m a climber/hiker/camper/outdoors guy. I dress business casual….but I wear chukka boots, fairly rugged leather belts, an aviator watch, and my pants tend to be shades of olive, gray, and coyote brown. The expression is there, just low key.

          2. Marisol*

            That’s true; I guess I have the kind of personality that is professional in the workplace.

            1. Lily in NYC*

              My sister is a big cheese at a pretty conservative agency and has to wear suits every day. She lets herself have some individuality by wearing fun shoes.

    2. Shiara*

      Do you have pierced ears? I was gifted some really cute R2D2 earrings from Her Universe by a friend, and they’re pretty fun to wear, since from a distance it’s not obvious they’re a star wars reference. I’ve been sideyeing thinkgeek’s solar orbit necklace as a present for one of my friends lately, and they have some other neat pieces as well.

      Overall, I like using earrings to add some personality to an outfit, although most of them have been gifts so I don’t have a good single source.

      1. Manders*

        Ooh, that necklace is really cute. I have tons of black shirts and dresses that would look great with that. Thank you!

        I don’t have pierced ears, so earrings are out. I’ve seen a lot of styles that would be cute as a necklace but are only available as earrings.

        1. Marisol*

          Well, if you’re seeking novelty, what about getting your ears pierced? Then six weeks, you’d have another avenue for creativity.

          1. Manders*

            I practice a sport where I’d have to take them out frequently during the healing period, plus I have a tendency to faint around needles. I’m a big fan of hair accessories like bows and headbands near the ears, but again, it’s hard to tell where to draw the line with those in the office.

            1. Marisol*

              I gave up on the idea of wearing barrettes, even ones with simple shapes, because it just looked too juvenile on me. I could see a headband being fine in the office, but probably not a bow.

            2. EG*

              Try etsy for earrings that don’t require piercing. I’ve seen some very cute ones that clip around the edge of the ear and look elven made. Something like this is on my wish list, because I don’t have pierced ears or want needles anywhere near them.

    3. Lily Rowan*

      I guess it depends on how much you want to get into it and with who, you know? I’ve worn a Captain America shield necklace to work and only one or two people commented on it anyway. I got it at the local ComicCon.

      1. Manders*

        I think most of my coworkers would just assume I was wearing abstract designs? I’d be happy if someone did notice, but I think most of the other people in the office don’t consume much fiction in any format.

        1. Lily Rowan*

          Then totally go for it! (I mean, assuming you want to draw out the fellow fans in the office.)

          If you wear pants, socks would be the other place I’d start with being a little wacky.

    4. periwinkle*

      ThinkGeek has a variety of wearable accessories, subtle and otherwise, referencing fandoms and science/geek culture. They have this lovely, delicate necklace with what looks like a silvery sphere until you look closer and see it’s the Death Star (there are matching earrings, too). I love scarves and plan to pick up the one with the Fibonacci pattern. Alas, they no longer offer the t-shirt I gave my husband: “I void warranties.”

    5. princess direly*

      Etsy is a great resource, or go to any artist’s booth at a con. I’ve seen neat Tardis necklaces, but I bet there’s abstract art out there too. (I have a snitch necklace and a time turner from HP and an evenstar necklace from LOTR). Maybe patterned tights, geeky socks, or Star Wars tie-in makeup?

    6. The OG Anonsie*

      Personally, I have two personalities. My work personality is different than my outside-work personality, and I like it that way.

    7. Miranda*

      I second the ThinkGeek and Etsy notions, some of their stuff is pretty obvious but they’ve got plenty of subtle geeky stuff too. There’s also an interesting concept I’ve seen called “Disneybounding” where you wear an outfit that simply suggests a character, because adults aren’t allowed to be in costume at Disney (there are all sorts of ideas available if you just google the concept. I’d think there were plenty of ways to adapt that to work appropriate wear of any character, not just Disney.

    9. Vpc*

      Shop at cons!

      I wear jewelry from half a dozen fandoms. I tend to go for small pendants and earrings, mostly silver, and fairly obscure designs. It spices things up a little and is a nod to others who are in your fandoms. I’ve made at least two good friends when they noticed my bat’leth earrings, and I’m slightly surprised that no one has asked whether my Supernatural anti-demon-tattoo pendant means I’m Wiccan.

  82. Elle*

    Has anyone else done a formal mentorship program at their workplace? Can you share a little bit about what it’s like? We have one at my workplace but it seems to be more about reading books that are of interest to whatever higher-up we’re assigned to (stuff like How To Win Friends And Influence People and a book on behavioral economics and statistics or business articles).

    1. Thlayli*

      I met with someone every few months and he gave me specific advice on what I specifically should do.

    2. PseudoMona*

      I participated in my company’s formal mentoring program, and I was matched with a mentor in another department who was in a senior leadership position (I was entry level). My mentor and I met in person once a month for 6 months. When I initially signed up for the program I didn’t have any concrete mentoring goals, but by the time the program started I was wrestling with a Big Career Decision so that’s what my mentor and I focused on discussing. And it really was a discussion, not him just telling me what to do. After the end of the formal mentoring relationship I’ve made a effort to keep in touch (an email or in person visit once every 6 months or so).

  83. Anon for Rant!*

    Semi-regular commenter going anon for this, just in case!

    Just a bit of a rant about my (soon to be ex) employer, with a key bit of information that I’m based in the UK where sick leave can be pretty much indefinite if you’re willing to go unpaid.

    I’ve been working in my current job for two years. It’s a team of four… our manager, Tyrion, me and two coworkers, Sansa and Jon. Sansa has been here for at least 15 years, and Jon about 18 months.

    Unfortunately Sansa has chronic health issues which mean that she’s not able to do her job, and hasn’t been for at least the past four years (according to Tyrion). Since I started here two years ago, she’s been on sick leave for at least 60-70% of the time. Since January of this year, she’s worked two weeks in total. On top of this, our job can be quite physical (not all the time, but a key aspect does include heavy lifting and being on our feet for hours at a time). Sansa can’t do this even when she is in work.

    All of this means that almost all of Sansa’s workload has been split between Jon and me (and Jon’s predecessor) as long as I’ve been working here, and I’ve reached breaking point. Tyrion’s been begging senior management to do something about the Sansa issue for years, but they refuse to deal with it. The won’t let Sansa go, they won’t move her to another role which would be better suited to her abilities, they won’t hire extra staff to cover her absences, and they won’t reduce our workload.

    The entire time I’ve worked here they’ve been “working on a plan” to sort it out, but nothing ever happens and I’ve finally got to the point where I can’t do it any more. I’m exhausted, stressed and ill all of the time. I’ve called in when I’ve been really sick and been begged to come in, because there was no one else to cover the work. I’ve worked 15 hour days for weeks on end. It just sucks. So I handed in my notice a few weeks ago. I actually gave three month’s notice (my contractual notice period is a month) because I didn’t want to screw Tyrion and Jon over, and wanted to give as much time as possible for them to find my replacement. But it turns out they’re not going to replace me, because there’s a hiring freeze. Even though we’re the only department that does this particular type of work in our 1,000s+ strong organisation (which is why they refused to reduce our workload).

    Well I found out today that they’re about to reap the reward of working their staff into the ground, because Jon told me that he’s going to give his notice next week. And he’s only giving the contractually obliged month, so we’ll actually leave within a week of each other. He said he could see his workload increasing exponentially once I leave and he just doesn’t want to do it.

    So soon, the only employee in our entire organisation doing our job will be Sansa. Who is currently on sick leave with no fixed return date. I feel bad for Tyrion, but I’m not sad to see the organization have to deal with a mess of it’s own creation.

    Ugh. It feels so good to get all of that out!

    3. Mazzy*

      I love this. I’m understaffed to for no reason because we make so much money I wish I could do what you did

    5. Thlayli*

      They brought this on themselves. If Tyrion has really been trying to sort it out I feel bad for him but this should give him ammunition to finally get something done.

  84. Seal*

    Last fall, I had a job interview, but never heard back from the organization. As this was a fairly high profile position in a small niche in my profession, I knew months ago that they had hired someone else. Then earlier this month, I received an email from the organization with the subject line “Not Selected” and a brief boilerplate rejection message. I just had to laugh!

  85. iseeshiny*

    Yesterday the marketing director in our small office gave me a thank you note thanking me for all my help showing her how to use things around the office (which was sweet of her), and a small pink soft covered photo album with headshots of the big bosses and marketing photos she’s taken the last few months. For Administrative Professionals day. 1) she’s not my boss 2) i’m not an admin 3) she just started in January. I know this is because she’s new, not used to how we do things here, and was genuinely trying to be nice, but I still feel kind of this mix between hilarity and affront.

      1. fposte*

        With headshots of the big bosses, too. I like to think they’re glamorous and soft focus.

        2. Spoonie*

          I was thinking glamour photo style as well! For some reason I had visions of ’80s hair…

        3. Thlayli*

          Lol. Does “glamour shot” mean the same thing in America? Over here it means soft porn.

  86. Temperance*

    I have a group of high school students shadowing me for career day. One of them showed up 45 minutes early. I was highly annoyed (because I came in early to get some work done). Here’s my question: is it worth mentioning that being extremely early is rude, or do I let it go, because this is a kid and presumably her parents dropped her off?

    1. animaniactoo*

      Depends. Did she expect to sit in the lobby and be fine with that? Was there somewhere near by she could have gone to pass the time? Did she expect you to deal with her right away anyway?

      If the first situation, I’d say leave it alone if the answer to the second question is no. If the answer to the second question was yes, and for the last situation, I’d say you should pass that back as valuable info about how to deal with it. Particularly because sometimes it takes you *less* time to get somewhere than you planned and you need to understand the dynamics of it and know how to compensate if you end up in that situation too.

      1. HisGirlFriday*

        I’d assume it’s because the parents had to drop her off early, but I’d still say to her, ‘Hey, if you ever end up having to be more than 10-15 minutes early for something for reasons you can’t control, you should bring a book/magazine along to read so you can be out of the way and people can go on with their plans.’

      2. Confused Teapot Maker*

        Belated +1 to this

        I think you should feed it back if she turned up 45 minutes early AND expected to be seen to immediately. I think people, especially when they’re at school, have it ingrained into them that turned up late is rude and therefore you should aim to turn up as early as possible – and just don’t realise that, actually, it can be just as bad.

  87. phedre*

    I posted a few weeks ago asking for advice about feedback my boss gave. She told me I need to work on interrupting – I get excited and can’t stop myself from jumping in. So a commenter mentioned I sounded like she did pre-ADHD diagnosis, so I got a screening. Sure enough, I have ADHD. I’m starting meds this week and hope to see a quick improvement.

    So thank you to all of the commenters, especially the one who suggested ADHD. So many things about my life make sense now!

    1. KiteFlier*

      That was me! Yay, I’m so glad I could help via internet comments. I also feel like my entire life has been a lie – think of the grades I could have gotten! :)

      1. phedre*

        Thank you again! I never knew some of my behaviors were ADHD symptoms. A lot of things make so much sense now.

        Have you found that medication really helps you? I know I’m not magically going to be a different person, but I’m hoping to not procrastinate as much and be more organized.

        1. SarahTheEntwife*

          Not KiteFlyer, but medication was completely life-changing for me! And while I did get lucky in finding the right type and dose right away, one advantage to stimulant-class drugs is that it’s usually really obvious right away if they work or not. It’s not like most psych meds where you have to wait 6-8 weeks and then maybe they work or maybe you were just having a string of good days that week.

          1. mreasy*

            Same here. I am no longer on ADHD meds due to another condition that presented later, but the meds were a massive help. I was having panic attacks that resulted in major emotional meltdowns, all triggered by my inability to engage in linear thinking, and the meds (early 20s diagnosis, here) were an incredible help for several years. Like a comment below, I was able to adjust my behavior & create strategies once I had to go off the mess, to help mitigate the downside of that.

    2. Judy (since 2010)*

      Not trying to be a downer, but with my son, it took 4 meds before we found one that worked with side effects he could live with. (That first one still gives me nightmares, he started major tics within 30 minutes of taking it.) And now 4 years later at 13, he’s decided that he’d rather work on the issues rather than medicate. (His was mild to moderate, and he’s doing OK with grades and teacher reports, so go him.)

      1. Marisol*

        Well as you know, everyone is different. I have adhd and didn’t know until I was 40. I don’t rely on meds for attention, just for sleeping (as an aside, everyone in this thread might want to research periodic limb movement disorder, which is a sleep disorder most people with adhd have but that fact is not widely known). I have tried attention meds here and there and so far haven’t found them worth it, but to me that’s a secondary issue–it’s having the adhd diagnosis itself that’s important because it has given me a new level of self-awareness.

        1. Judy (since 2010)*

          I was generally replying to the “I’m starting meds this week and hope to see a quick improvement.” comment. I wish phedre well on their treatment.

          I’ve yet to hear a parent of a young ADHD patient say that they had an acceptable medication regimen on the first try. Between the tics (and the doctor saying “so the tics did go away? most of the tics caused by medicine go away after you stop taking them” scary), the sleeping and eating disruption and the issues with feeling “not yourself” on some of them (there’s one that really seemed to be a zombie maker), it can be pretty rough.

          My son is lucky his is mild enough that much of the effects can be mitigated by strategies and awareness.

          1. Marisol*

            Ah I did miss that “quick improvement” part. Yes, it’s a process, like everything else in life. You are right to point out that there may not be a quick fix.

          2. Merci Dee*

            I am the parent of a child who was diagnosed with ADHD, and the first medication that she took was like magic. The first day that she took the new medication, her teacher sent home a note saying that the difference in her attention was amazing (she’d never had problems with fidgeting/moving too much in class, so that was never at issue). The meds did an amazing job for about 2 years, and then the efficacy started to decrease. My daughter had a couple of issues at school, so I made an appointment for her to see a local psychiatrist who focused on work with children, and that’s when the doc confirmed for me that she had a pretty severe case of OCD. He switched her to a different medication (liquid instead of a pill), and this medication is doing a fabulous job of helping her control both of the conditions instead of focusing on just one.

            I know it’s totally rare for medications to work so quickly and so thoroughly for kids in her situation, but we were lucky with both of the meds that had been recommended for her.

          3. Anatexis*

            Could you tell me what strategies and awareness have worked for you? I am in the early stages of seeking a diagnosis for my 12 year old. He is just fine in a lot of areas so I’m not sure if medication will be the right route but I’d love to hear from a parent what has worked in your situation.

            1. Judy (since 2010)*

              Quite late to this, but in our case, some things that have worked:

              * Pre-emptive discussions with teachers (really important now that he’s in Jr High and has lots of teachers) so that they can pay attention to keep him on task.
              * He’s allowed to be tested in small group settings per his 504 plan. He also has wording to allow him to have a good seat for him. (Usually to the side near the front)
              * Lots of little strategies like “Read the questions before reading the essay so you know what to look for”, “Always remember to recheck your math”
              * I check his grades on the online portal much more than I check his sister’s. That way I’m more engaged in when his tests, projects and assignments are. (They put upcoming items in there also.) I don’t take “I have no homework” at face value.

              At least some of it for him was lack of maturity (for want of a better word). He seems to have better self control these days.

      2. Case of the Mondays*

        Half the battle is knowing your issues. I had side effects from the meds too (very high heart rate among other things.) I took them for a couple of years to get everything back into control. Then, when I went off of them, it was easier to police myself because I now knew what was acceptable behavior and what wasn’t and I could recognize when my ADD was kicking in.

        1. Marisol*

          Mine’s kicking in right this very minute as I can’t seem to tear myself away from this blog and do some work…

  88. Tomato Frog*

    Video interview complaint! I know the advice, here and elsewhere — and also just based on my own experience — is to look at the camera rather than at the image on the screen. I completely understand why this advice exists, but in practice doesn’t it defeat the entire purpose of having a video interview? If you’re not actually using the visual cues provided by video (watching the other people’s reactions, being able to tell when someone’s done talking, etc.), why be on video at all? In the end, looking at the camera is really just a psychological gimmick. “I felt like Tomato Frog was really attentive and a good listener!” they’ll say, because I looked directly into the camera, even though I have no idea what they’re faces look like or whether they smiled at my jokes.

    If I had to do it over again, I think I would just keep my eyes on the video of my interviewers, even if it would have a negative impact on their impression of me. I really hated not catching my interviewers’ reactions.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      You should look at the camera while you’re speaking. It’s okay to look at the video after, and glance at it a couple of times during your turn. But from the other end, if you look at the screen the whole time, it seems like you’re talking to the keyboard. It makes you seem disinterested, the way talking to a person but never making eye contact the entire time would.

      Unless you’re discussing something really crazy or controversial–which I wouldn’t expect you to do in an interview!–you’re not going to miss a whole gamut of reactions. That’s why just glancing at the screen occasionally would be okay. When actors or speakers onstage address an audience directly, a trick they sometimes use is to focus right over their heads–it LOOKS like they’re looking right at the people, but they’re really not. Try talking to a small sticky note posted right above the camera hole. If this is awkward for you, try Skyping with a friend for practice and ask them for feedback.

      Also, wear pants! In case you have to get up during the video interview! :)

      1. Tomato Frog*

        I already did the interview, and I followed all these tips. Like I said, I understand why it’s done. What I’m saying is, it’s silly that you have to do something for the appearance of looking at them directly, when in fact what it means is you are not looking at them directly, and in theory everyone knows that!

        And I disagree that you don’t miss out on much by not watching their faces. It took me halfway through the conversation to realize they were actually smiling at some things I was saying!

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I hear you, though that’s why I mentioned glancing at the screen now and then. It’s just something I noticed when Skyping a lot with a long-distance bf; he didn’t look at the camera often, and while I knew he was listening to me, from my end, it seemed like he was very disengaged. I was surprised to see that and then I wondered if it would be the case in other Skype situations.

          I’m glad you wore pants! ;) Good luck!

  89. Rosamond*

    Yeeesh. A colleague flipped out on me yesterday (via email) over something that I have zero control over. There were threats and ultimatums. I understand why he was upset, but not why he assumed it was my doing. I referred him to the person with authority over the matter (which I had already done about half a dozen times in the past few months). It’s so rare that I get emotionally charged email of any kind. It was so weird and out of left field that it wasn’t even upsetting. I just stared at it and thought, “What the hell is wrong with this person?”

    1. OhBehave*

      Did you clear the air and make it understood that you had nothing to do with whatever set him off? I can understand becoming upset about something but to take it out on someone else who is innocent is unacceptable. Not to mention unprofessional whether you were involved or not.

      You could respond to the email again by calmly stating that you had nothing to do with the issue and that you were taken aback by the tone and threats in the email. You have already referred him to the person with authority over the matter many times, remind him of that. Maybe the frustration has to do with this person not responding to him. Who knows?

  90. I know what Alison would say*

    So, I’ve been doing some temporary HR cover and I think I’m going to make a decsion that leads to someone getting fired. She’s a single mother of a youngish child (9 or 10), and I was one of those once, and I’m empathising far too much. I don’t think she’ll cope very well with unemployment, for reasons not unrelated to the causes of her firing, and really I’m just feeling bad about it all.

    I’ll do the right thing, but it’s rather painful.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      Yeah, those sucks.

      I had to do a personality test a few months ago, and one of the questions I objected to was related to this kind of scenario, and would I find it very difficult.

      Well, I think most people would find it incredibly difficult. But that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t fire the person anyway.

      And sometimes, it can be the best thing for them- it could be a wake up call to the woman that she needs to make some changes to get her ish together- or find a job where it won’t impact the company if she doesn’t.

    2. Jules the First*

      I can highly recommend the podcast Radical Candor – there’s an early episode (5 or 6, I think) which is about coping with firing someone when you feel guilty about their personal situation.

  91. Bad Candidate*

    Updating LinkedIn question… My husband’s company declared bankruptcy a few weeks ago. It was touch and go for awhile, but another company bought some of his company, including his area. Anyway, should that be listed as a new job on LinkedIn or should we just update his current company to the new one? I’m likely overthinking this. New company takes over as of Monday. Thanks!

    1. Sparkly Librarian*

      I haven’t been in the situation myself, but I think I would keep the current job listing with the same dates, change the employer name on it to the new company’s name, and somewhere in the body of the listing include “(originally hired by OldCompanyName, which was acquired by NewCompanyName MM/YYYY)”.

  92. Jessesgirl72*

    I have a question for Alison- if it’s more fitting for the weekend thread, delete and I’ll ask tomorrow.

    I was reading the Bird Phobia update yesterday, and had commented that I hoped Liz or a friend of hers is an AAM reader, and that perhaps reading that the company was strongly advised to offer her a settlement, if she sued, would make Liz reconsider her decision to not sue. The details of the incident were pretty specific and memorable, so if anyone at all had heard about it and knew Liz or Jack, they would be bound to identify the people. I know that you ask us not to make guesses, but do you ever change some of those specific details to try to give the OPs more anonymity? For instance, I know that when Emily Yoffe did Dear Prudence, she talked about how she’d change genders or ages of the people being talked about, in order to protect the OPs from being detected. Have you ever changed details like that, or do you think that because so much of your advice is so very dependent on specific regions/industries/cultures, that doing so would make the advice useless or at least cloudy?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I’m interested in hearing Alison’s response on this, but I know that as a letter-writer myself, I did all the anonymization myself when I submitted the letter. I had already swapped names/genders/titles/whatever so that it would be very difficult for someone I worked with to guess it was about our workplace. I just assumed that whatever level of anonymous-ness I wanted to convey would be up to me.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        And that is a reasonable thing to say, but I never count on others to necessarily do what they need to do to protect themselves. :) So I wondered what she thought about it.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I don’t — I leave it to people to do that themselves if they want to. I answer as it’s written, and I’m clear with people that answers will be published. That said, 99% of situations in letters here aren’t so one-in-a-million that they’re likely to be recognizable. It’s really the rare ones (liver boss, Jack/Liz, etc.) that are.

      I do sometimes have people submit letters where they say “please change details if you publish this,” but I don’t want to be responsible for deciding what will make them feel safely anonymous so I either don’t answer those or — if I really want to answer — I write back and ask them to do it.

  93. No hugs here please*

    Going anon for this.
    Last week i had a situation of leaving a meeting with some people i don’t normally work with. We’d had a good meeting and I’d talked to them more than normal.

    We were talking outside our meeting room. One person went almost immediately and hugged us all. I don’t usually do workplace hugs but ok, fine.

    The other three and i chatted then we were going back to our relevant offices (we all work in different locations) and they all then hugged each other… and me.

    My team aren’t huggers. I’m very ok with that. I don’t mind workplace hugs occasionally but more of the issue here is that while i didn’t mind hugging three of them, i REALLY didn’t want to hug the fourth.

    But there’s no good way to get out of hugging one colleague when you just hugs three others, right?

    Note to self, don’t hug anyone in future. It’s easier that way.

    1. EddieSherbert*

      I personally would not mind if they hugged everyone else in the room and not me. In fact, there’s a really good chance I’d awkwardly be like “oh no thanks!” or something.

      I’m sensitive to people touching me (handshakes are fine, I just don’t like them by my face at all).

    2. Handy nickname*

      Eh, I’d say that if you know the other three better and hug them and then go for a handshake with the fourth one it would be okay. I’ve done that in social situations after far too many times of hugging the one person I didn’t know as well because it felt awkward not to, only to realize that it was actually MORE awkward to hug them.

      But if you didn’t want to hug the fourth person as more of a personal discomfort thing than there’s probably not a good way to avoid it.

      I sympathize though. I’m a very selective hugger- generally not much of a physical affection person, even with people I’m closest to like my family, but there’s a handful of people I’m perfectly happy to hug occasionally, including some coworkers. Others though- ick no. :/

    3. No hugs here please*

      I didn’t initiate any of the hugs. The person I didn’t want to hug went to hug me. So, yeah, I think just avoid any hugs in future is the way forward.

  94. Should I negotiate?*

    Just for the sake of asking?

    So I just received an offer for a job I REALLY want. It’s a good fit for what i want to be doing, has alot of room for growth, I connected well with the team, they seem to have a really positive office culture……and it’s a chance to get out of high-stress, poorly-managed CurrentJob. I’m in a niche field, so there also really aren’t other options in my geographic area right now.

    During the whole process, I was actually never even asked my current salary or what range I was looking for. Salary wasnt even discussed until I got the offer. I’ve done my research and the offer is right around what’s average for this position in this region and with my years of experience. It’s in the top half of the range I would have asked, and is about a 10k increase over my current job (which was paying pretty poorly). I wouldn’t have a problem just taking it. Should I still be trying to negotiate? Would it look bad if I didn’t?

    1. Fabulous*

      If you’re happy with the salary offered, why would you try to negotiate higher? Accept and be happy you don’t HAVE to negotiate :)

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      The idea that you look bad for not trying to get more is nonsense- especially if the offer is fair.

      Do you want to ask for more, is the only thing you really need to determine. There is good argument for asking now, as it’s the place where you are most likely to get the increase, that (likely) sets you up for your future earnings at the company. But if you are satisfied and want to just accept it? That’s okay too!

    3. CM*

      I’m in favor of always asking for more! I’d say, “I’m very excited about the job. I was wondering if there is any flexibility on salary. Would you consider [Salary + $5K]?” If they say no, then just accept at the original rate and reassure them that you’re still happy to accept. I do think, depending on what you do and how much business/negotiation is part of your job, it can look bad not to negotiate at all. (But if your job is to carve teapot handles or whatever, I don’t think it looks bad.)

    4. neverjaunty*

      It won’t look bad if you refrain, but there is very little downside to politely seeing if they will negotiate.

    5. Antilles*

      It won’t look bad not to, but there’s no real downside. Experienced managers usually do expect you to ask, so this is an all-upside play:
      1.) They give you more money – obvious win
      2.) They keep the salary the same, but promise to review things in 6/12 months – potentially a future win
      3.) They don’t change anything and stick with their original offer – this is exactly where you are right now
      So worst case, you end up exactly where you are today; every other scenario you end up ahead. As long as you do it politely and professionally, no reasonable person is going to be offended by you asking (once!) for a little more.

    6. Marisol*

      Personally, I would never, ever pass up the chance to ask for more money from an employer. Like neverjaunty, I see no downside.

    7. MicroManagered*

      I’ve accepted offers without negotiating, but mentioned about the fact that the offer is in line with your research for this type of position. One thing you might want to ask about is what the company’s annual review process looks like, and if you will be eligible to participate in that process, based on when you’re starting. I’ve seen people accept a good offer, only to find out their first chance for a pay increase is a year and a half off, based on when they’re starting. In THAT case, I might try to negotiate a slightly higher offer, even if the initial offer is in line with what I was hoping for.

    8. RR*

      ehhh, I’m going to have to disagree slightly with some of the other replies here as to there never being any chance of a downside. I am generally a big proponent of negotiating on salaries. If you are going to negotiate simply for the sake of negotiating, however, it can sometimes backfire. I am not talking about unreasonable employers who object to anyone negotiating at all, but if you are given a good offer (per your explanation that you’ve done your research and the offer is both reasonable and in the upper half of what you were expecting), it can sometimes make you look a little off. My organization tries very hard to make our best offer from the beginning, and tends not to negotiate much at all. We are also very concerned about internal equity. My organization would never rescind an offer for someone asking for more simply to ask for more, but it might well be noted and not in a good way. It should be noted that 1) we are a nonprofit, and 2) our salaries are benchmarked for our industry and they are indeed generally quite good (I’ve worked for a number of other organizations in our field where this is not the case).

  95. And Peggy*

    Has anyone ever gotten a positive response/call-back from an interview they didn’t feel went great?
    I had my first job interview in three years yesterday and I can’t stop obsessing about how my answers could have been better. I did well in the phone interview and practice assignment stage, and there would be one more interview after this, but still.

    3. Jules the First*

      I got offered the job, having come out of the interview thinking I was there just to make up the numbers as their “diversity” candidate. I turned them down on the grounds that if I was their best option and I didn’t think we’d clicked, they were better off without me.

    4. First Time Poster*

      I cried on the way home from my last interview because I thought it went so poorly. My primary concern was that I didn’t realize a writing test was timed, and I went way over the time allotted. I still got the offer, but ended up turning it down. Good luck!

    5. SarahTheEntwife*

      Yes! I interviewed for my current job on a really hot day. I had to walk an unexpected distance to get to the interview building and was feeling kind of woozy and incoherent, and figured I’d totally blown the interview. But no, apparently I’m *scintillating* when dizzy from the heat and my soon-to-be manager thought it went beautifully. :-b

    6. jamlady*

      Yup, and I just turned down the offer (it was awkward all around, and I was surprised they were so positive about me – I definitely didn’t feel the same about them).

    7. PseudoMona*

      I had 3 interviews during my very first job search. I thought I aced the first two interviews and bombed the third. As it tured out, the only job offer I recieved was from the “bombed” interview.

    8. mreasy*

      I’ve never felt an interview has gone great, and I have gotten every job I’ve interviewed for except one! So – yes! You’re thinking about what went “wrong” and focusing on that, but the interviewers are looking at the entire experience. Also, I find that to me, something feels like it’s gone “wrong” even if it’s just gone differently than expected – not necessarily an actual flub or blatantly incorrect/badly received answer. Take heart!!

  96. Rookie Manager*

    Microsoft Outlook:
    Can anyone tell me the settings required so that person A can put appointments in person B’s calendar without it also appearing in person A’s calendar? This is slowly driving me and my team mad; please help!

    2. Morning Glory*

      In outlook I have edit permissions for two people I support: I can add things to their calendars without adding them to my own.

      However, those individuals needed to grant me access – if I did not regularly schedule things for them, they would not.

      Alternatively, you can send an invite, then mark it as ‘free’ on your own calendar. It will still show up on yours, but other people won’t think you are in a meeting.

      1. Rookie Manager*

        Its for admin team to book appointments for staff with clients so giving them access would be ok. I’ll delegate access first thing Tuesday. Thank you!

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      Why don’t you make a separate calendar for appointments of x type, and forward those appointments to people’s individual calendars?

      We do this with shift cover and it works really well.

      1. Rookie Manager*

        Previously there was a (very crowded) team calendar which held everyones appointment for everything. I’m trying to step away from that for a varity of reasons but I’m getting pushback on it. Otherwise this would’ve been a good option. Thank you.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          Ah, that makes sense. This works for us because it’s for one thing that one person covers at a time – if it was for more it would be a car crash.

  97. Rebecca*

    I have a small rant about rude, uncouth people.

    One of my teammates resigned. Our manager called an impromptu meeting to make the announcement, but I was on the phone and missed it. I stopped by my teammate’s office to tell her I was sad she was leaving, that I had really liked working with her, and that I was going to miss her, and before she could respond, rude coworker just walked in and said “oh, you b***h! You’re gettin’ outta here!” This person could clearly see we were talking, and I just looked at her and said “Really? Not having any of this right now, why would you say that?” I was so flabbergasted! Teammate just stared at her. “Oh, she knows I was just kidding”. I said “Seriously, stop it.” I told my teammate that I’d catch up with her later, and I walked away.

    I know this person is rude on a regular basis, but that just really pressed my buttons. What is wrong with people?

    1. Sadsack*

      Eh, it was crass, but I don’t think it would bother me. I wouldn’t have taken that use of the word bitch seriously in that context. If it wasn’t said directly to you, I think you should put it out of your mind.

      1. Sadsack*

        Sorry– if it is the part where you were interrupted that is most bothersome, yes that is very rude!

        1. Rebecca*

          It’s the interruption, as well as her general lack of manners. Many of us would like to just hose her down with the fire hose rather than interact with her. Ugh.

    2. Die Forelle*

      Hah! I work in a school office and I just admonished a 10-year-old student who opened the office door and loudly asked for a band-aid (no “please” in his request, either) before greeting me or looking to see if I was busy or on the phone. It’s one thing when a kid interrupts and you just coach them on some manners, another when an adult at work does it. I’d be majorly annoyed, too.

    3. Chaordic One*

      There actually are people who think this is funny, or a term of endearment, or empowering.

      (Obviously, we’re not those people.)

  98. Herdwickian*

    Looking for some advice on avoiding giving out your salary history at an interview.

    I have a second interview with a company soon and HR have sent me an application form to fill out and bring along to the interview. They already have my resume, cover letter, salary expectations and the online application I competed when I initially applied, so most of this new form is just repeating and expanding on that information, but they now want my salary history.

    My problem is that my most recent job (not in the US) really lowballed me (probably 25-30% less than market rate). It was also in a different sector (academia), different country/currency and a city with a vastly cheaper cost of living than where I am now. In short, I really don’t think it’s reflective of what I’m worth here and would rather not give the company my salary history.

    The rest of my history is pretty much degrees and internships which I got a stipend for, so I’m fine with justifying withholding details of my stipend. My problem is how to avoid talking about my last salary.

    I’m new to the US and have zero experience with salary negotiation (almost everything I’ve learnt so far has been from this site!), so any advice on scripts etc would be appreciated. Thanks!

    1. Chaordic One*

      When you know the market range for others with similar education and background are paid, you say that you are looking for something “in the range of $X to $Y” and in your situation you can certainly say that as student in an internship, your previous stipend was not comparable.

      Stick to telling potential employers the salary range you are looking for. You might have to start at the lower end of that range if you get desperate, but stick to it.

    2. mreasy*

      I was being paid well under market for my prior job. When my current employer asked what I had been making, I said, “well, that’s not really relevant here as they were drastically underpaying me. The salary I’m looking for is X.” I didn’t quite get X, but I got X-$10k with a $5k signing bonus and much better benefits than the previous job that had been paying me X-$30k!

  99. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Not so related to MY work, but someone’s:

    A pastor I knew in college is a Methodist, and is having her friends who are also clergy cut her off/out and facing problems from the higher ups in the denomination- because she supports LGBT rights and has carried signs to that effect in recent local protests- this amidst huge denominational controversy over ordaining and accepting gay pastors.

    She hasn’t done anything officially wrong and so can’t be defrocked but I still feel bad for her.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      That’s sometimes the cost of doing the right thing- which your friend should know, because it’s in the Bible. (in more words)

      And maybe they can’t take away her right to be a Pastor, but is she the Pastor of a church? How does her congregation feel about it? How does her Bishop feel about it? Methodist church assignments are made by the Bishop, so if she’s running afoul of her Bishop or making a lot of waves there… well, she might want to consider becoming an Episcopalian. ;)

    2. Manders*

      Whoa, I thought Methodists were on the liberal side as a denomination, but I looked it up and I was wrong. I’m so used to the majority of churches in my area hanging their in rainbow flags up in June.

      Good on your friend for having the courage of her convictions.

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        Well, on a church level they are great- but the leadership is still stuck. Still, they only defrock if one performs a same sex marriage; as long as she doesn’t do THAT, other people can be as annoyed with her as they want.

        1. Jessesgirl72*

          But being annoyed with her means they can assign her to a church in BFE, and she HAS TO GO. Or then they can defrock her! So it’s not just “they are annoyed, so what” She has no control over where she works or even if she works- that is all on the Bishop.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Can she change denominations? I have no clue how this works. I think that there are Presbyterian denominations who are very supportive.

    4. ..Kat..*

      Tell her why you think she is a good pastor. Tell her you support her and why.

      When a person goes out on a limb and no one says “hey person, I support you,” life can be hard and lonely. Person can be left wondering if they are all alone.

  100. TotesMaGoats*

    I just want to share that NewJob continues to be just awesome. I’ve come down with bronchitis and wouldn’t be in except I’ve got a pre-planned vacation next week. Everyone is being so nice asking how I’m feeling and telling me to go home. They care. It’s so…refreshing?

    Also, work BFF from OldJob is ending week 2 at new job and called this morning (to check on me) and shared that it’s also been a good experience and people aren’t crazy there. So, yay for landing at a good place. Our only sadface was that we aren’t working together.

  101. Dannah*

    How many interviews are too many interviews?

    I have been interviewing to work for an individual for about a month now. I’ve met with 8 different members of the team over the course of four in-person interviews. I also submitted an academic writing sample and my college transcripts as required in the initial stages of this process (I’m 31, and long out of college).

    Through all of this recruiting has been considerate and grateful for my time, and relatively communicative. I’ve been told that there are likely three final individuals to meet, but after that, I am not sure what the next steps are. Recruiting has assured me that all of these interviews are positive, and indicative of their interest in my candidacy, and in the effort of full disclosure, I was warned at the outset that they “interview people to death.”

    I guess I’m just wondering if my experience is relatively common. I am interviewing to work for an extremely wealthy individual who has the luxury of being ultra-fastidious so I cannot fault them for putting me through the paces in this fashion. But — when is enough enough? Would most people have thrown in the towel by now?

  102. Mrs. Badcrumble*

    I work for a big global company and just got put on a workgroup where we have members in Western Europe, the East and West Coast in the US, and in Japan. We were trying to schedule the next meetings at a times that are good for all of us, which is obviously pretty difficult with all the time zones. The solution thus far is just to accept that not everyone can attend or that some people will be attending outside of normal work hours, and of course we have minute and a Sharepoint site for materials. That said, has anyone else encountered this situation and developed a really workable innovative solution for meeting across multiple time zines that doesn’t put people out?

    1. Mrs. Badcrumble*

      *we keep minutes of the meeting, not ‘we have minute’. Thank goodness proofreading isn’t my field.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      The only working solution I’ve found is rotate the times of the meetings so that it’s not always the team in Japan who has to choose between getting up in the middle of the night or missing the meeting- make sure that everyone is getting to some of the meetings.

      1. Lindsey*

        Same deal. We also use dateandtime.com or something like that, which automatically generates the best time for the meetings.

        Also, assuming that you’re on video conference, we record all the meetings. That makes it feel much more interactive.

      2. KimmieSue*

        Agree with Jessesgirl.
        This is super important. Calendar them so that the team who is on during a painful (off) hour rotates! I’d recommend that the first rotation with the suffering team be the corporate headquarters. Shows great support and precedence that each team will have to be on an off hour.

  103. Mazzy*

    Omg I can’t take any more of the click bait articles out there about someone from Google or Amazon sharing the one sentence that changed their life or the one line email that got them the job or the one lesson that utterly and completely changed their life

    They are all so mundane and common sense. Or you google the persons name and they have a life coaching website!

    1. Elizabeth West*

      Well if it’s that easy I should set up a bullcrap site like that and rake in the bux. :P

      I said the other day I should buy some cheap jeans, put them on, and roll around in the mud here (it will NOT stop raining) and sell them like Norstrom’s pre-stained jeans.

    2. Antilles*

      “Mundane and common sense”? Hah! I’ve found it’s much more common that The One Magic Trick is actually actively harmful to your career / interviewing candidacy / whatever.

  104. shep*

    I know Alison has promoted using first names in correspondence, especially if that’s your office culture. My office uses first names, from receptionist to legal counsel to director.

    I found myself in an odd position the other day. I’m coordinating an event with another organization. My contact set me up with another person, and introduced her as “Mrs. Romilda Vane” in the email. I thought this was oddly formal, but since we’re collaborating on this event and I wanted to cultivate a friendly, casual correspondence, I addressed my email to her with “Hi Romilda,” as I would with anyone. She insists on responding with “Hello Ms. Granger,” and I can’t for the life of me figure out if she’s trying to indicate that she thinks it’s a serious faux pas that I’m calling her by her first name, or if it’s just ingrained in her to respond like that.

    Her email signature is the full “Mrs. Romilda Vane,” which I also think is odd. Since “Mrs.” is there, I assume she prefers to be called “Mrs. Vane,” but I definitely prefer to be called “Shep.”

    Am I wrong to keep using her first name when she hasn’t outright corrected me? She is perfectly nice and friendly in the actual body of the email, but I don’t want to offend her. But on the other hand, I’m a bit miffed by the idea that her preference for “Mrs.” might take precedence over my preference for “Shep.”

    What do y’all think?

    1. Amber Rose*

      Could it be a language thing? One of my bosses frequently introduces me as Ms. Amber Rose so that the other person will know I’m female, as it can be hard to pick out the gender of a name, and then I get emails calling me Ms. Amber, even though I continue to use first names only.

      Alternatively, could that be the rule in her office, that she address people by Ms/Mr [lastname]? As we’ve seen on AAM a lot, some bosses are particular about that kind of thing.

      I think it’s probably ok to either go on as you have, or maybe just ask directly. If you suddenly switch, you might cause one of those odd internet misunderstandings and leave her feeling slighted.

    2. Jax*

      I correspond with people from foreign universities and this happens a lot. I use their first name, they respond with Mr. Beach Life (even though I am a woman, my real life name looks like it could be a man’s name) and they sign it Mrs. Foreign Librarian. After that I address all my emails to Mrs. Foreign Librarian, but only use my first name. These are people I will never meet in real life and correspond with about twice a quarter.

      How often to you correspond with her? Will you ever meet her in person? If she is using “Mrs” referring to herself, then that’s how I would address my emails. And then I would sign them how I want to be addressed and not worry about it.

    3. Sadsack*

      I wouldn’t continue to use her first name, but you can continue to use yours. Isn’t Mrs. meant to mean “the wife of”? It seems to me that she is using it wrong, but if that’s how she wants it, then so be it.

      1. Thlayli*

        i don’t think Mrs means the wife of. Never heard that. Just means “married woman” with surname x. If you kept your original name after marriage you could still use Mrs with your original surname if you wanted.

        Personally I’m a fan of ms but if people want to say Mrs they are perfectly entitled to do so without being criticised.

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Where I live, there is a cultural thing in the black community. I’ve had friends introduce me to their children as Ms. Amy and we all referred to an older colleague as Ms. Jane. Which is a little different from the situation you’re describing, but it might be a similar thing.

      Honestly, if it’s just email communication, I’d keep signing your things Shep, but probably switch to addressing her as the name she uses to sign things.

      1. shep*

        I think this might be the case. I’d just feel so awkward switching at this point. I address her supervisor by her first name and she addresses me by my first name as well. And at this point, Romilda and I have gone back and forth quite a few times. Would you bring it up or just switch?

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          I’d probably just switch and not make it a big deal.

          If you ever meet her in person, I’d suggest saying “Hi, I’m Shep Lastname, please call me Shep. What would you like me to call you?”

        2. Sadsack*

          I’d just switch. What would be the point in bringing it up? I don’t think you need to apologize or explain anything, if that’s what you are thinking. Just address her as she clearly prefers and move on.

    5. Marisol*

      I think she is really weird, but I would use the title with her, since that’s what she seems to want. When she calls you Ms. Granger, you can say, “call me Shep!” and then she should respect that and NOT use your title. This might cause her to make the same offer to switch to first names, but if not, I think you have to keep using the title until you officially say “do you mind if I call you Romilda?” and get her ok. Blecch.

  105. Burned out Bernadette*

    I think I’ve achieved maximum burnout. I’m making small, but poignant mistakes; have no enthusiasm for any projects I’m working on; I’m procrastinating on everything. I’m getting stuff done, but not at the level I used to. And no doubt it will be called to my attention soon. The truth is that after being at my company for 7 years, I was recently passed over for a promotion – again. This is despite having an honest conversation the last time about how to better-position myself. Following the previous experience, I received good feedback and all seemed to be going well. But then my colleague was promoted to manage all of us and I’m still where I was.

    I don’t begrudge my colleague her promotion. But I think my reputation at this company is one of reliable workhorse, not rockstar. These days I feel more like the strainer you find in a kitchen sink. I grab all the crap that shouldn’t go down the drain. Sure, that’s an important job, but no one notices it unless it doesn’t work. The sad part is that I can’t leave. The company is paying for my Masters degree and I’m obligated to stay for 2 years. I’m looking into transfer opportunities, but that might take awhile. In the meantime, I am depressed, anxious, and need a break. And I’m just sad.

    Any advice for how to pick myself off the ground? I’m not a fan of the view from down here!

    1. SCAnonibrarian*

      A good long totally-disconnected-from-work vacation? Talk to a doctor and take a literal mental health break using sick leave? Find something outside work to be passionate about, and take time off to invest in that thing? Find out how much money you’d have to pay back if you left work before your two years are up, pick up a no-interest credit card to pay it with, accept the financial hit and polish your resume anyway?

    2. Beancounter Eric*

      You’ve been there seven years, have been passed over for promotion at least twice, and, as you put it, are the reliable workhorse. It looks to me like your employer sees that as your permanent role there, and the only way to move up is to go elsewhere. And you are burned out…..and it won’t get better on it’s own.

      Frankly, it’s time to leave. And yes, I saw the mention of your tuition reimbursement situation. Do you have a written agreement relating to your tuition reimbursement and does it make mention of a buy-out clause? If so, I would be looking at how to exercise said clause.

      Assuming you absolutely have to stay, try to take some leave – vacation, a couple of days off if nothing else. Take up a hobby, time permitting. If you can, perhaps take a break from your Masters program.

      Also, as for promotions, be careful what you ask for…..you just may get it.

      1. Mazzy*

        Omg my department is turning into you, it is pathetic. Multiple people feel this way and I’m having no luck changing it. I’d stay to stay for he reimbursement but do less. Let them lose some money. Let someone higher up notice and ask what is happening. Then show them all the other areas you saved money and what the average output of other roles is and how you still do more than them (which I’m assuming you are if you ever had he rep of being a workhorse)

    3. Burned out Bernadette*

      I know people always say in these situations that they can’t take time off. We literally just had a department meeting talking about how crazy busy everyone is and all the projects coming up. So I’m going to have to wait a couple of weeks at least to grab some time off. I’m one class away from getting my degree, so taking a break seems counterproductive at this point and the it is a written agreement regarding the tuition reimbursement, but I will take a look at the buyout clause. (I would have gone back to school anyway with or without the tuition reimbursement, though it was a nice perk)

      Plus, my current plan of action is to try and transfer into a department using my new masters degree (an internal career change, so to speak). It sounds good on paper and is certainly a possibility, but I know its going to take awhile and that sometimes depresses me even more given that I’m anxious to get off the rollercoaster.

      The truth is I know I’m a bit depressed. The issue of getting the promotion or not isn’t what depresses me, it’s more the perception of who I am and what I do. I don’t feel devalued per se, but I also don’t feel like a positive, productive member of my workplace society and that was kind of validated when my boss promoted my peer and gave me a tap dance about how great I am.

  106. HisGirlFriday*

    I am, currently, the most recent hire in my job +/- 4 years. One of our part-time people announced today she is leaving.

    My boss called me into her office and said, ‘Jane has quit….uhm…resigned, effective next Friday.’ We talked a bit about what that means for me (basically nothing; she supports another role entirely separate from mine).

    HOWEVER — said co-worker is in charge of three very large events coming up in the next five weeks. She left with only one week’s notice, not the standard two, and she isn’t leaving to go anywhere. She has simply reached the BEC stage with the FT person she supports and she and her husband can financially afford for her to be out of work for a while.

    She is now making noises about her ‘going away party,’ which no one especially wants to organize (next week was busy enough without this happening) and the people she is screwing over (actually, everyone else in my office) aren’t feeling terribly charitable toward her because of this.

    Since I have been here, only one person left, and that was by firing, so I don’t have a metric for what it looks like when someone voluntarily leaves.

    Any advice on how to navigate this? I don’t mind being part of a going-away party, but I don’t want to organize it in the face of serious anger from the people I’ll still be working with.

      1. HisGirlFriday*

        No; she is always in charge of these three events and they always happen at the same time (roughly) every year. They’re HUGE — we’re talking hundreds of people needing to be scheduled and arranged and taken care of, and she is the point person for all of them.

        Can the rest of us pick up the slack? Sure, but it’s a busy time for all of us, so it’ll mean a lot of juggling.

        1. animaniactoo*

          I wouldn’t organize it then. People are not thinking fondly of her right now, and even if going away parties are standard for your org, she needs to recognize that.

          If she’d like a going away party, she can organize it herself. Everybody else is busy now.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      Nobody is entitled to a going-away party. If you’ve been a pleasure to work with and you leave on good terms, someone usually thinks of it without any prodding from the departing employee. It doesn’t sound like this is the case here.

      I wouldn’t organize a party unless you are genuinely sad to see her go and WANT to do it.

      1. Manders*

        Yeah, I’ve never had a going-away party when I left a job. It’s weird to expect one, especially when you’re leaving on unusually short notice during a time you know is busy.

    3. Sadsack*

      I would just ignore those remarks. If someone else puts a party together and invites you, fine, but you shouldn’t worry that anyone expects you to organize a party.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Yup! If someone else wants to take on the task, fine, but since she’s leaving (a) with only one week notice and (b) in the midst of a very busy period, I think it’s kind of outrageous that she thinks she should be getting a party.

    4. nonegiven*

      Tell her you’re too damn busy picking up the slack to organize a party for a part timer and if she wants a going away party she can organize it herself.

  107. Need a New Name*

    I’m re-applying for a job I interviewed for last year but didn’t get (totally justified as I bombed the practical exercise part of it and I knew it). But my feedback was good, someone I know who is still there says they had fewer than expected applicants, and I have a decent chance of being interviewed again.

    I just cannot seem to get myself to finish with the application! I am submitting a very similar one to what I sent in last year, as the job requirements are exactly the same. Honestly I have not had a good time since then, between a bout of depression, travel, and a lack of jobs that I was able to take. So I haven’t done anything much to improve my skills since last year, which is making me feel unenthusiastic, I guess.

    This is also having an effect on another job application I’m working on. It’s in a totally different field so trying to change directions in my head to work on that has been hard. I’m totally distracted by other things, too, so I’m getting nothing done at all!

    Thanks for listening to me rant. I haven’t been around on the site for ages, but I wanted to see what was happening.

  108. Odd Lady Out*

    My department is doing performance reviews for the first time (in at least twenty years). There are two other people in the same position/level as me, the salary for which is below market in our industry. I happen to know that both of my colleagues will be asking for significant raises. We work in higher ed where raises of more than a few %s are unusual. Should I ask for a raise as well?

    I have taken on several new responsibilities/projects over the past year so I have a good argument for a raise. However, I have a workload where I could easily work 50+ hours a week, but because of the relatively low salary I cut myself off at 40 (which is also my preferred work/life balance).

    1. kac*

      What’s the worst thing that happens if you ask for a raise? No reason that making slightly more $$, means you have to work extra hours!

  109. Searcher*

    I am a searcher no longer! I was hired as a floating substitute teacher until the end of the year. Then this morning I was invited to apply for a summer position with them as well, so they seem to like me! I’m very excited after five months of unemployment, even if the opportunity will not be long.

  110. kac*

    My company was recently bought out, and I’m really not in love with the changes. It’s very corporate and bureaucratic now, affirming my preference for smaller companies. I was offered a retention bonus, so I’m going to give it some times, but I’ll likely be looking for a new role in 2018.

    Here’s my question: How do I search specifically for other WFH positions? I currently work from home, and I would like to continue to do so in a new role (especially now that I have a baby; I love seeing his cute face for lunch). Job boards seem to have geographic locations tied to all their positions, and I haven’t found a good way to filter for other WFH roles. Any advice?

  111. DD*

    Welp, they’ve announced massive reductions at my employer–close to 15% of staff over time. I am hopeful that I will survive–they are making the cuts in order to invest in areas including the one in which I work–but I am not assuming anything. LinkedIn and resume have been updated. I am still getting. Dry positive feedback from my managers but the mood around here is pretty gloomy.

  112. Spek*

    My company is in a slow period, and has cut my staff of 4 to just me. Business is expected to pick up in the fall, and I am not expecting to be let go. My department workload is not based on company performance – we have basically the same job if we are going all out, or there is no work at all. The latest is that they cut my hours to 4 days per week. One of the reasons I was able to keep the department afloat so far is that I am salary and was putting in 50 hour weeks to cover the laid off staff. Am I wrong for not being willing to work 50 hours when they cut me to a 32 hour week? In addition, I am in regulatory compliance, and there is no way I can keep the company fulfilling its legal requirements on 32 hours per week. I am thinking about writing a formal letter to the CEO – who is Legally Responsible for compliance and informing him that I can’t keep the company out of trouble on 32 hours per week. Is this a good idea?

    1. neverjaunty*

      You shouldn’t be doing 50 hours of work in 32 hours! This definitely warrants a meeting with higher ups.

    2. Mazzy*

      You have much more to gain than to lose so go for it. Just give specifics besides “too much work”

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      I think you need to look for a whistleblowing policy before you do anything, and then follow it. Because this sounds like a situation where you’re effectively having to whistleblow or might do – so you need to find the policy to check what you have to do to be as protected as possible.

  113. Snazzy Hat*

    I just had a phone interview with a recruiter for one of the best companies in my area. They’re highly successful, have been around for over a century, and they’re major philanthropists in the community (to the tune of “this production or season is sponsored by”).

    Holy crap I was rambling a lot, and at least twice I said I was nervous. But I think I answered the most important questions correctly! There was one serious moment of almost-awkward when she asked about my current pay rate. I recently got a huge pay increase from temp to full (the job is still part time, hence why I’m looking for something more stable), so I told her I’m making $X per hour. She asked what I was expecting to earn, and I replied a range of X-4 to X. She said, “oh, because this pays only $Y per hour”, and I truthfully assured her, “well I was making Y at my last job, so it’s not a problem.” I admit to y’all at AAM that I didn’t do my research for pay rates, but I also was willing to go as low as Y. $Y per hour was comfortable. $X is awesome, but I work less than 20 hours a week, and usually less than ten.

    I was so glad she asked me why my last four jobs have been temp jobs. In my explanation, I made it very clear that I want a job that I’ll keep for decades. She seemed to appreciate that.

    Now we play The Waiting Game…

  114. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

    PTO Etiquette:

    When they go out on PTO, it is the habit of many people in my organization send an email with instructions on who to contact about their projects (to a wide circle of people they work with; not just their boss and assistant, but not the whole company/division — maybe around 20 people?). They do this even for absences of one or two days — any time they will be out and truly unreachable.

    This seems unhelpful to me. If you’re gone for just a couple of days, almost everything can wait a day or two (and if it can’t, there are plenty of resources for me to figure out who to work with — i.e., I can go to the absent person’s boss). I’m not going to make note on my calendar of everyone’s various absences, nor am I going to memorize it from an email. So I just don’t see the point.

    But it’s the habit here, and I’m about to go away for two days. I started to write my “I’m going to be out!” email, but it just feels so silly. What do you think?

    (btw, I’m very sure my boss doesn’t care. I, of course, make sure that he knows that I’ll be gone, and check in about anything that’s going to be moving while I’m away.)

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        Yes! I forgot to say that. Isn’t that the point of an out of office message? 1) I won’t respond for a few days, and 2) If you need a response sooner than that, here’s what to do.

      2. Sadsack*

        Me, too. Even to be out longer, I would tell only the people who I work with directly and regularly, such as my boss and admin, and expect everyone else to see it in my out of office response. Why bother people with this info until they need it? Since it is the culture there, you might want to run this by your manager first.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      I wonder whether this custom grew out of self-protection at some point — someone got called on her day off and decided to try to prevent that in the future, and everyone followed suit.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Anyway, I think it can’t hurt, especially at companies where people are in the habit of defaulting to “their person” with questions instead of considering that “their person” might need a true off day to recharge.

    3. CM*

      If your boss doesn’t care and nobody in a position of influence over you would care, I would put the boss and assistant as the “contact in case of emergency” for short absences of a day or two, and save the longer list for longer absences.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      This is a know your office thing.

      In ours you email to say you’re out. It’s irritating when people don’t, as you can’t tell if they’re on leave or just WFH without having to faff around looking in their calendars.

    5. Ramona Flowers*

      And you don’t need to memorise, it’s just the info is there if you need it.

      I thought it was stupid and pointless until we got a new team member who never emails when she’s going to be out and I found it annoying as she sometimes WFH so her not being at work doesn’t tell me if she’s working or not.

  115. FN2187*

    My dog has to have surgery, so I am in the hunt for a side hustle. I immediately received a phone call for a part-time position after submitting my resume. Thank you so much for your resume tips, Allison — they truly do work. I am a bit worried because the part-time hustle seems to want evening availability, which I cannot provide. How can I frame my week-end only availability as a positive thing? I have lots of experience in this industry, so I will be easy to train. My interview is tomorrow afternoon.

    It’s been a stressful week — I would appreciate any advice you can offer.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      Hmm, maybe something like, “Unfortunately, evenings are out for me, but I know a lot of times it’s difficult to cover weekend shifts, especially during this time of year, with vacation season coming up. You could definitely count on me to work weekends.”

      1. FN2187*

        I like that! A friend works at the same place and mentioned that they have a lot of people planning to go out of town.

  116. NJ Anon*

    So I have decided to quit my job with no other job lined up. I just can’t take it any more-the commute, the dysfunction, etc. I have a couple of things in the pipeline and have a skill (accounting) that easily translates to temp/contracting/consulting work.

    My question is about my 401k-should I take it and stick it into an IRA? Leave it until I, hopefully, enroll in another one? Anyone have experience with this?
    Thanks!

    1. Burned out Bernadette*

      Put it in an IRA… leaving it where it is means that your former company manages it, which isn’t in and of itself a terrible thing, but why add to their portfolio or have to deal with them if something comes up? I rolled mine over into an IRA invested in some stocks and bonds and it’s been fine. These days it’s probably even easier to roll things over online.

      1. NACSACJACK*

        I heard that 401K can be used by the company as cash reserves, that they can be liquidated like pensions were in the 80s.

      2. Jerry Vandesic*

        “Put it in an IRA … leaving it where it is means that your former company manages it”

        Not necessarily. The 401k funds are managed by an investment firm (e.g., Fidelity, Merrill Lynch) and not the company. There are some benefits to sticking with a 401k. With an IRA you can’t take tax-free withdrawals until you are 59 1/2, compared with 55 for a 401k. Depending on the size of the company, the fees might be better with a 401k compared to an IRA. On the other side, if you are an active investor you might appreciate that IRA’s typically have more investment options.

        There was a recent article in the WSJ that covered some of these issues:
        https://blogs.wsj.com/experts/2017/03/19/before-you-roll-over-your-401k-read-this/

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I’d put in it in my IRA. I designated it as a rollover so there was no tax questions involved.

  117. Rikki Tikki Tarantula*

    Freelance editor working on a novel manuscript. The protagonist is such a Mary Sue that every few pages I find myself rolling my eyes so hard that I bump my brain. Good times!

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      Well, a couple of the biggest selling franchises in recent history have Mary Sues that bad, so the author might have a best seller on her hands!

    2. Gandalf the Nude*

      I can forgive a lot of Mary Sue-ism as long as the plot and supporting characters are solid.

      1. Rikki Tikki Tarantula*

        They’re not.

        I’ve edited worse books (much worse) but this is the most eye-rolly one I’ve had in a long while.

      1. Rikki Tikki Tarantula*

        Just a copy edit, and second round at that. Heaven only knows what the first round was like (it was assigned to a different editor).

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Hmm, maybe not then. Probably wouldn’t do any good then.

          I’m gnashing my teeth that something like a facepalm-worthy Mary Sue doesn’t keep people off bestseller lists. I keep thinking of that guy who wrote the bogus science paper and got it published; maybe I should just write something enormously over-the-top stupid, put it on Amazon under another pen name, and see if it will sell. :P

          2. Ann O.*

            Bestseller lists can be gamed, so it doesn’t always mean anything. But also, sometimes people want the fantasy of a Mary Sue/Gary Sue character… that’s why the Mary Sue exists in the first place! Plot, concept, and strong writing can compensate for bland characters.

          3. Thlayli*

            Honestly I don’t get why it bothers people. I realise that in this case the characters and plot are bad, but if the character and plot are good why do you care what it’s based on.

            2. Elizabeth West*

              Well, if you’ve been busting your butt to turn out good work and it gets ignored, and something incredibly shitty gets lauded like the Second Coming, it’s frustrating. I know art is subjective, but DAMN.

    4. Death Rides a Pale Volvo*

      I once edited a novel where I swear to G-d I was shouting at every other page, “OH COME ON.”

      1. Rikki Tikki Tarantula*

        I once edited a nonfiction/memoir that had me taking breaks to bang my head on the desk every so often. Still the worst book I ever edited.

  118. CatCat*

    In the past week, I’ve had two connections reach out to me about opportunities where they work. I’m not looking right now (though one, I did look up and pause to consider), but I was flattered. It’s the first time in my current profession that I have been sought out for potential jobs.

  119. Anon Anon*

    Background checks. Has anyone ever had a background check for a job, where the company doing the background check requested your tax documents from a specific employer?

    Secondly, has any successfully negotiated for more vacation time? If so what were your successful strategies?

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      I just did it (vacation time). This was in the context of being recruited from a job I was happy at. I had told everyone that in the hiring process, so they knew that I wasn’t going to move without really, really excellent reasons.

      When the offer came it was the higher salary I’d asked for, but only the standard vacation offer, which was less vacation than I had where I was working at the time. (Plus, I had worked for the offering company for a multi-year period before, so it’s not like I was coming in with zero history of service.) I mentioned both of these things to the recruiter and just asked whether I could get another week. They gave it to me without issue. If they hadn’t, there’s an excellent chance I would have rejected the offer (and I think they knew that).

      So, it wasn’t a hard negotiation, but I think context matters. They really wanted me back, but I was happy where I was so they needed to sweeten the pot a lot to get me to move.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        LOL And funny that the circumstances where you got it was similar to the circumstances where my husband didn’t get it!

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      Not for a background check, but for a real credit check- I think as a way to verify your identity vs another Anon Anon.

      And my husband negotiated for more vacation time. He strategy was simply to say he couldn’t accept less because he had enough seniority at his current job for a week more than new hires are offered there. But it was so commonplace where he works that the possibility of the exception is written into the employee handbook (mentioning that he is then frozen at that level until he reaches the next level through seniority there, where new hires go up after 3 years, he doesn’t until the next threshold)

      He also was unsuccessful in the job before that. He had moved to another company and then gone back to his OldJob- at their request, and his boss and grandboss tried to get back the vacation he “lost” and were eventually told that allegedly, even if he were being hired as a VP, he’d only have gotten the 2 weeks given to all new hires. They gave him back everything else he “lost” from the 18 months at the other company, though, so there is no real reason to doubt that.

      So I guess I’m saying it never hurts to ask, but if you don’t succeed, don’t blame that necessarily on your method.

      1. Anon Anon*

        Thanks. This job is one where the salary is at the bottom of my range, and the vacation time is far less than what I receive now, and you have to there for 10 years to get an extra week. I could deal with the vacation allotment that employees get at the 10 year mark, but I’m not willing to wait 10 years to get what I consider to be an adequate but not great amount of vacation. I’m not unhappy enough at my current job for that.

  120. Coco*

    I’ve put together a staff karaoke night and I’m wondering what the standard should be about songs with bad words or obscene lyrics. I want to sing “Bitch,” but my sister says that’s not work appropriate, but I say there will be alcohol there and there should be some expectation of profanity since so many songs are like that. I also talked with a few of my coworkers and they agreed that kind of thing should be expected and is no big deal since this event is optional. Generally my workplace is relaxed, but one time a director (who won’t be at the event) called me a potty mouth for saying “what the crap,” so now I’m paranoid.
    What do y’all think the standard should be?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I think it really depends on your workplace culture. I’ve definitely worked places where “Bitch” would have been appropriate… and other places where people would have been aghast.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      Well, it’s really dependent on the culture.

      The DJ’s at my wedding (also my cousin and his husband- so more leeway than a strict professional hiring) nixed Bitch for fear of offending the grandparents! I love that song so much!

    3. neverjaunty*

      Adding alcohol does not make work-inappropriate things work-appropriate.

      And really take a hard look at whether “but I wanna” is skewing your reading of how this would go over with your bosses.

    4. Marisol*

      What’s the song? It’s called “Bitch”? Is it that song from 15 years ago that goes, “I’m a bitch, I’m a mother, I’m a child, I’m a lover, I’m a sinner, I’m a saint–I do not feel ashamed”?

      I wouldn’t worry about a one-time use of the word, or of any mild profanity, but if the word is emphasized I wouldn’t include it. So if it’s that song I’m thinking of I would pass. If you’re feeling doubtful, it means there is something in the back of your brain telling you to exercise caution. And why take chances anyway, when the risk/reward ratio so low–your professional reputation vs. singing a cool song at karaoke.

    5. Temperance*

      I would probably pick a different song, but that’s just me. My karaoke go-to is “Afternoon Delight”, though, and I wouldn’t sing that at a work event. (Or ever, ever, ever, go to karaoke as a work event.) That’s just me, though.

  121. Librarian Ish*

    Gah, so I may be elected executive director of a volunteer board I’ve been working with. I feel like a kid playing house, but this group has a pretty large following and a great mission, and I really think with work, it could go places. Trouble is I have no real idea what I’m doing. Do folks have resources they recommend for nonprofit management?

    1. Matilda Jefferies (formerly JMegan)*

      Charity Village is a good one. It’s Canadian, so some of the specifics may not be useful to you, but the general “how to manage a nonprofit” stuff is excellent. Congratulations, and good luck!

    2. Working Mom*

      Before you go down the “I don’t know what I’m doing path” sit down and consider all of your current skills. Which of those skills can translate to this particular non-profit? A LOT of directorship work really boils down to leadership, delegating, and managing people. If you can bring in good people, know when to release the low-performers (or detrimental employees), can lead, and know when to ask for help from the experts on your team – you are far more qualified than you realize!

  122. WhirlwindMonk*

    Received a nice response last week (thanks babblemouth!), but reposting to see if I can get some further opinions and more insight.

    Does anyone have any experience with quitting a job on good terms and offering to do contract work for that company?

    My wife and I are expecting our first child this summer, and one option we are considering is that after she finishes maternity leave, I’ll leave my full-time job to be a stay-at-home dad, and seek part-time or contract work that’ll fill 10-20 hours a week that I can do during naps, in the evening, on weekends, etc. One of the options I’ve considered is offering part-time contract work to my current company as right now I provide the company with set of skills outside the core functions of my position that no one else in the company has and that they are making good use of in addition to my core responsibilities. If anyone has successfully (or unsuccessfully!) done this and has any advice, I’d appreciate it!

    1. Althea*

      I haven’t done this myself, but my organization contracts quite a lot with former employees. I can think of 4 just utilized by our unit alone. The biggest thing IMO is to make sure the people who actually need your services are aware of your availability – so, not just an upper-level manager or HR. So if you are the only Teapot Handle Decorator, make sure all the Teapot Handle Shapers know about you. That way, when they have a need, they will go to their manager and say, “I know Whirlwind Monk said she was available to help, and we need help.” That puts the connections in the right places.

    2. Judy (since 2010)*

      Several companies I’ve worked at had rules about not hiring former employees as contract workers for 6 months or a year after their employment ended. Make sure that’s not an issue.

  123. Working Mom*

    I am a manager, and I have a new manager to oversee me. New manager is great, but not extremely experienced in our tiny niche of teapot design. He knows teapots in general, but not our specialty. There is some level of micromanaging going on, which I suspect will ease up after a while. I also suspect, based on a few comments he has made, that he does not have any management experience himself. I’m trying to “teach” him to let me handle my team – so he can worry about the big stuff.

    Help! Anyone want to help me come up with various professional versions of “if you step back, I can handle it, and make you look good – and then you can focus on big-picture teapot stuff?”

    1. Not So NewReader*

      “Let me do that for you, that’s my job.”
      “I am here to handle that stuff for you!” said with a soft smile.

  124. Matilda Jefferies (formerly JMegan)*

    Speaking of dress codes, I had an interesting conversation with my manager yesterday. I have two small tattoos and one fairly large one – all more or less visible, and after 2 1/2 years on the job I figured I should actually ask someone if they were okay. :)

    The distinction we came up with was that they’re generally fine, except in really formal situations. So if I had a meeting scheduled with the CEO, I would cover them up; but if I bumped into him in the elevator they wouldn’t be anything to worry about. I thought that was a really interesting way of drawing the line, as it makes it clear what the level of acceptability is for something like that.

    1. Rincat*

      I’m curious about this too, though I think my workplace would follow the same guidelines. I have a large-ish tattoo on my upper arm that’s covered most of the time (because it’s FREEZING in here and I always have on a cardigan or something), but it peeks out with shorter sleeved shirts. I plan on getting one that starts on the outside of my elbow and wraps up, so obviously visible in shorter sleeves.

      1. Matilda Jefferies (formerly JMegan)*

        My office is freezing too! To the point that my manager actually laughed at me when I asked about short sleeves, and pointed out my cardigan, chattering teeth, and blue lips, and suggested that it may not be something that would come up very often. :)

  125. LaurenB*

    For single people out there, how do you discuss dating at work? I know the immediate response is “you don’t!” but I work in a fairly friendly, close-knit environment and we all chat about our weekend plans, etc. I hang out with co-workers outside of work from time to time, but none of them are close friends of mine. I’ve been dating someone for a few months and I find I have to be a bit cagey to not mention him at all. I know there’s a line between not mentioning a spouse and talking about your one-night stands, but where is it?

    (I’m also in a small city where everyone knows everyone, so they are not satisfied with descriptions like “His name is Jim and he’s a bookkeeper.” They need to know who people are, their families, and their mutual acquaintances. I’m from a big city and this lack of anonymity scares me a bit!)

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      If it’s coming up in conversation naturally, I don’t see anything concerning about mentioning that you and your boyfriend are going to a tea pot exhibition this weekend or whatever. I wouldn’t regale people with my OKCupid adventures, but I wouldn’t avoid mentioning someone I’d been dating a few months, either.

      1. LaurenB*

        Thanks, that’s good to know. I was feeling like maybe mentioning it before it was a “family status” update was inappropriate, but almost everyone I work with is married so they have no changes in status.

        The problem is that in my workplace, they’ll go NUTS if I tell them. I told one person (because she wanted to set me up with her friend) and she practically shrieked when she figured out what my awkward pause meant. I don’t mean to make it sound like I work with teenagers, but I’ve been single since I relocated for the job and I think they’d be thrilled for me, but that leads back to small town, awkward questions, etc.

        1. MegaMoose, Esq*

          Yeah, my husband’s last assistant was always on him about his dating life back before we met – some people do seem to get invested in that kind of thing for whatever reason. I grew up in a small town and do not miss everyone knowing (or trying to know) everyone’s business. Assuming you’re tired of the awkward pauses, though, the only thing to do is to get the excitement out of the way.

        2. Elizabeth West*

          It think “His name is Jim and he’s a bookkeeper” is enough. If they start asking for his pedigree, just laugh and say, “Oh we’ve only been seeing each other a short while; I don’t want to jinx anything! You understand.” Then smile and walk away. They’re not entitled to your private information just because it’s a small town or because you work together.

    2. Marisol*

      I don’t think the relationship status is the issue; but rather the activities you discuss. So if you have dinner and see a movie with someone, that is fine to discuss whether it’s your husband of 20 years or a guy you met recently. “Yeah, this guy I’ve been seeing lately took me to sushi, then we watched Lost City of Z. It was a great weekend.” But you wouldn’t discuss any intimate details like sex or private emotional issues, regardless of the commitment level of your relationship.

      If someone presses you for details, you’ll either know the answer or you won’t. And you can also pretend not to know. If someone asks about the family members of your date you can always say, “I don’t know much about his family yet. We’re just getting to know each other.”

      Honestly, that sounds nosy and it would be tedious for me to deal with. Since you’re not a small town person, I don’t see why you have to bend over backwards to be different than who you are. If people are pressing you for details, just say you don’t know or change the subject or push back however you want, i.e., “I really don’t know. Why do you care?”

      I’m not sure that is helpful as I don’t quite get where you’re coming from. So maybe I misunderstand your question.

      1. LaurenB*

        No, thank you, that is helpful – at least in clarifying how weird my workplace/small town is, because those options are 100% not possible here! Admitting to going to a movie with “a guy I’m seeing” would make it around the office as THE piece of news within ten minutes. And if I claimed not to know much about his family, my co-workers would tell me all about them, based on just the last name and a location. Sigh…

    3. Thlayli*

      talking about dates are fine. “We went here, we saw this movie”. Talking about sex is out e.g. “we did it in x place in this position”. Talking about he person themselves is tricky – best to assume that someone might know them and speak accordingly- it could happen!

  126. London Engineer*

    Given how… ‘heated’ the comments sections have gotten lately I was wondering if it might be worth talking over any ideas people had for how to make them more manageable/civil. Particularly the bird-phobia and bullying posts got unpleasant to read very quickly and the comments are such an important part of the site. Also, as Alison has repeatedly mentioned, people are going to be much less likely to write in if they feel like they might get a reaction like that. I don’t know if it’s inevitable but it seems to have followed the site’s recent boost in popularity (which is a good thing!). Only older posts I can remember getting anywhere near as hostile were the woman who tried to harass her husband’s ex after he sold her the superbowl squares and the boss who wouldn’t let an amazing employee attend here own graduation.

    Having said that I have never run a website or comments section, so all these ideas may be as useless as cv/interview tips from someone who has never done any hiring. I also have no real way pof judging how much work it would take – Alison can of course feel free to delete this if it feels like stepping on her toes.

    1. Require registration. I like that people can comment casually but actually asking for an email address might cut down on some of the volume, and on some of the more heated impulsive comments.
    2. Just capping comments after a certain number. Sometimes the long threads are interesting but after it hits 1000 posts it feels like the last few hundred always seems to be people saying “I haven’t read all the comments but has anyone said….[thing people have said multiple times and there is already a 100+ thread on]”
    3. A system which allows for upvotes (and maybe downvotes as well) The Toast had one of my favourite comment sections on the internet before it shut down and the voting allowed people to highlight good posts fairly simply. Other sites like Arstechnica have downvotes as well and although political articles are still a bit of a mess they are reasonably effective at hiding the trollier people and those who didn’t bother reading past the headlines.
    4. Adding more moderators – I can’t imagine how stressful this all can be to manage and I think even if they didn’t have banning/deleting power a couple of other sets of eyes who could flag comments or step in with a highlighted post to remind people to calm down might be helpful.

    In general I just want to thank Alison for all the work she puts into keeping this place one of the more civil places to have a discussion on the internet.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      If you’re curious about some of the discussion that’s already happened, last week’s open thread had a pretty extensive discussion started by Alison that discussed a lot of those options.

      1. MegaMoose, Esq*

        Woops, I was off a week. It’s interesting looking back at that conversation after the last couple of weeks. Have any of your positions changed since then?

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Nope, I’m still pretty much there — basically, that it’s a human problem rather than one that can be solved by technology, and that I have to moderate more aggressively. I’ve been doing that and I feel pretty self-conscious/heavy-handed about it, but I think it’s either do that or watch the comment section really devolve. So I’m doing it.

          But I’ve also asked my tech person to prioritize figuring out if she can create a way to collapse comments on subthreads since everyone seemed to really want that.

          1. CAA*

            If it helps with the self-consciousness, I suspect all but the most frequent commenters have not even noticed that you’re doing more moderation.

            One other technology thingy I saw recently on another site that may help would be a little message that says “2 other people are typing” or “1 new comment”. It appears right at the spot in the thread where the response(s) will appear if you refresh the screen. It really helps to prevent people from repeating an answer that was already posted. I’m not sure if there’s a WordPress plugin that can do this, but it might be worth looking into.

          2. Christy*

            You are doing such a great job with the heavier moderation! I’ve definitely noticed and appreciated it. (I was going to comment earlier in the week about it but figured I’d save for this thread….and then I forgot until now.) Seriously, I’ve noticed a marked improvement.

            1. Ramona Flowers*

              Yep.

              Though I still can’t believe how many more comments there were about how the LW with epilepsy ‘needed’ emergency driving skills even after people were told to stop.

              1. Ramona Flowers*

                Which is why I think removing whole sub threads and saying “I deleted a conversation about x” works really well – seems to stop things more effectively than letting some comments stay.

            2. hermit crab*

              I completely agree! I don’t comment very much but I read daily, and I just wanted to add my appreciation.

      2. London Engineer*

        Ah sorry, I missed this! Is it weir that I feel vaguely pleased that a bunch of my ideas were the same so I’m not completely nuts?

        Even with the more intense discussions this is still a great comments section – so whatever solution end up stressing you out the least is probably best

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      I recently looked up some very early AAM posts and the comments seemed much worse!

      Upvotes really aren’t my thing. But ymmv.

    4. Jaguar*

      Maybe this is repulsively narcissistic, but would you mind speaking to my commenting in the bird thread (or in general, if you recognize my username), Alison? Even going so far to use me as an avatar to speak to “this sort of thing Jaguar does is exactly what I’m trying cut down on” if you find that useful – I’m not concerned about being singled out like that.

      I ask because, with the increased moderation and the regular discussion about “what’s to be done?” with what are nebulously-defined problems (i.e., heated comments, flouting the rules, and so forth), I don’t know if I’m an offender. I disagree frequently with the stuff people say on here and that often runs down to core moral ideas (as it was doing in the bird thread), which tends to spiral into deeply threaded reply chains as well as creating a lot of emotional responses. I love engaging in these discussions and getting the opportunity for people who think differently than I do to express objection to my beliefs – I really appreciate this platform for that reason. But I’m not clear on if the direction you talking about wanting to go is away from this sort of behaviour, so I’m often wondering when I get into a discussion here if I’m one of the culprits.

      (I’ve also added an e-mail address if you want to more directly address anything. Probably means my Gravitar will pop up, too)

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I am 99.9% sure that I’ve never found your comments anything but thoughtful and interesting, but I will look! Original post or the update?

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Ah, okay, just looked at both. Looks like you only commented on the update.

          So there was that thing about whether it’s admirable for people to choose not to pursue restitution. I do think it ended up becoming a thread that took us off-topic from the post, but it didn’t start that way — you said something perfectly on-topic but then people asked you about it and you responded, and it was the totality of it all that ended up starting to derail.

          That’s tricky, because of course anyone wants to respond to questions people are asking them, and how do you recognize when it’s time to say “okay, we’re pretty significantly off-topic at this point”? I think ultimately it’s okay for me to be the person responsible for making that call, and I don’t take any issue with how that thread went down, as long as you and others understand that I might end up stepping in at some point, as I did there.

          1. Jaguar*

            So then, when you’re talking about headed or emotional comments, as one or two popped up there, should we just step away from the discussion at that point? (I hope you say no, for the record, but I’ll abide by what you want out the contributors)

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              I get pretty irked when people get heated toward someone else — like getting snippy or snarky toward another commenter. But a little heatedness about a topic is fine with me, as long as people remain civil with one another. (There would be no site if I didn’t get heated about these topics!)

              1. Jaguar*

                No, what I mean is that if a User A is expressing an opinion or idea and others users – but maybe not all of them – respond with heated or emotional outbursts, should User A step away from the conversation? Because I’ve gone into discussions knowing there’s a real chance of people lashing out or responding emotionally and while, obviously, I can’t be held responsible for the way someone else acts, that sort of literalist approach doesn’t have a pragmatic solution: I know I’m fanning the flames, even if that’s not my intent, so I have some practical moral blame for the fire, I would say.

                1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  Oh, I see what you’re asking. I think if it’s already getting pretty off-topic and you’re seeing responses like that, I’d be grateful if the person who began it said something like, “I disagree but I think this will start derailing so I won’t pursue it” (or “I’ll save it for the open thread” if you want). But it’s such a judgment call as to when to do that, so I think there’s wiggle room there. (And sorry — I know that’s not a very black and white answer, and it might be easier if I gave one. I just want to leave some room for individual judgment, and it’s okay if mine ultimately is different. I think that’s the price of having interesting discussions, to some extent.)

          2. Thlayli*

            I have no idea if you even want my opinion since I’m a relatively new commenter and I’m definitely guilty of getting entrenched in debates that get more and more off-topic. Which I am trying to rein in. I have no solutions but I have some observations.

            I’ve noticed that both I and others seem to get “triggered” by specific language / flat statements blaming one person / particular words. In the bird phobia case I think one reason it went so crazy is because the very very first comment was a flat-out criticism of Liz. Many people (myself included) thought Liz was a totally innocent victim and she had every right to choose not to work with a man who pushed her in front of a car, regardless of why he pushed her. So people were in full-on “how can you say that!” Mode from comment number 1 .I think if the first comment had been a bit less one-sided the comment section may have looked a lot different. Or maybe not.

            I noticed a LOT of people reacted to the word “bully”. Even before OP came on and explained what actually happened people were telling their horrific stories of bullying. However, the LW didn’t actually say “bully”, that was in the headline. (IMO the situation she described was bullying, but that wasn’t totally clear just from the letter So I think people were reacting to the word bully more than the actual letter). I was able to be a bit detached from that one because I wasn’t ever bullied badly but it was clear a lot of people just wanted to share their stories and didn’t really try to tie it in to the actual letter in any way.

            I personally got really caught up by the guy with the more casual boundaries than his new office. I eventually figured out that the reason I was so het up is because the headline referred to his behaviour as “weird” and I have done all of those things and I didn’t like my behaviour being called weird. So I was definitely “triggered” by that word. If it has been called “new guy is used to more casual offices” then I probably wouldn’t have even bothered commenting at all, but calling that behaviour weird made me feel like I had to defend myself. Which makes zero sense I know since but it’s an emotional reaction not a logical one.

            I don’t want to get sucked in to these things and one of the reason I come here is because this comment section is a lot nicer than most.

            so I want to try to help fix it. I also want to fix my own behaviour – I actually really dislike getting into online arguments but I find it really hard not to respond to a question or a disagreement and I don’t really understand why, since it’s so easy not to respond when someone agrees.

            Tl:dr no solutions just observations

            1. Not So NewReader*

              One thing that struck me is that people were working off of different definitions of what bullying looks like. From what I have read on the topic the definition of bullying activities and behaviors has grown quite sophisticated. In way, I am glad because I grew up in a very different era.

              And I noticed that some people can let a lot roll off their backs, while I envy that and try to let stuff roll, I also understand people who can’t. Confusingly, there are times where they shouldn’t let it roll off their backs.

              While a discussion of school bullies does not fit a workplace forum, I think that it might be beneficial to talk about what workplace bullying looks like. When does a behavior cross over into being workplace bullying?

      3. fposte*

        While we’re at it, I suspect I’m like many others here when I say I’m fine with any of my posts being deleted when I’ve gone a digressive or difficult direction. I think of us as a shrub that’s being healthily pruned.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            I hope you find several ways of looking at it so you have more tools to draw on. I’d hate to think that this is wearing you down.

            One thought I had is you are STILL a boss. But you have how many volunteer commenters? Mind boggling. So you are the manager of the discussions. Not much different than a panel discussion moderator who has to keep the discussion on course for the sake of the audience who came to talk about Topic. Only this is on a huge scale.
            Which brings me to my next point, you may want to consider hiring another moderator. Granted they will not moderate in the exact same manner but as time goes on they will grow to think more and more inline with your thoughts.

            I took a small business course one time. One of the common pitfalls small businesses hit is that they do not have a plan for extraordinary growth OR they do not really think about how much their work has grown in relationship to their available resources. This so resonated with me for many reasons. I was very impressed with the observation.

            Have you done any rough projections? If your readership continues to grow as it has been what will that number look like in two years, three years, five years?
            Probably you could do estimates that are ranges, two years could be A to B growth, three years could be B to D growth and so on.

            I hope I sound encouraging, you have a very important message to get out to people and developing a plan for further growth would help to ensure that you can continue getting your messages out there. You have helped so many people, your efforts are so very needed in this world.

    5. Mazzy*

      Sorry I don’t these these are good for this site! First off as per capping the number of comments, there is no guarantee that the first comments will be the most interesting. And you might even end up blocking an OP!

      As per upvotes the culture hear just needs to change. A lot of the +1 comments still happen even though I know that’s been discussed. And I especially don’t get why there are always a bunch of “thank you” type comments every time a disclaimer is put up top. Or to something pretty obvious.

      To keep the amount of comments down I think the culture needs to change. I hate here or elsewhere the “I’m not a lawyer but” comments. Especially yesterday when an actual lawyer already commented! In other words, people need to think if there comment is actually necessary or not.

      Moderation when there is disagreement so often on what is acceptable or not seems like too slipppery a slope.

      And I don’t think things really ever get contentious enough to warrant it.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Plus as a LW I’d have missed out if comments had been capped. Mine were helpful though (Belinda the office dementor).

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Yeah, capping comments would mean that people in other time zones would often be cut out entirely. And letter writers often don’t weigh in until really late in the day and I wouldn’t want to block that.

          It’s a lot of comments though. If you had told me five years ago that one day that would be a problem, I would have been baffled.

      2. Ramona Flowers*

        +1 comments help differentiate between outlier opinions and things others agree with. They’re different to upvotes because upvotes rearrange the comments, or turn into popularity contests, or can be manipulated through brigading or personal vendettas. I used to be a mod on a sub on Reddit.com and sometimes you’d have a situation where someone took issue with another poster and systematically downvoted all their comments.

    7. Lissa*

      The main thing that personally drives me away is, well, repeated hostility to anybody, even if they aren’t the OP (but sometimes it is to the O). I feel like once 10 people have explained in detail why they feel someone behaved egregiously, do people *really* need to continue to go on about how horrible somebody was? It’s the “points for participation” thing and sometimes it can feel like it’s almost like, people see others reacting badly to a situation and then want to one-up the outrage. Or something strikes a personal note and everyone gets in on it, and I understand but do we really need 50 stories about people’s awful high school bullies, with some people seeming to take it for granted that that LW was as horrible as their own personal experiences despite no evidence either way? After a certain point it just feels gratuitous and when it’s to an OP it’s even worse

      But I don’t really think there’s a way to stop this other than what Alison has been doing. Some people have a button pushed by certain topics and regardless of rules or how many other people have said the same thing or what percentage of commenters agree they need to share their own experiences. I’ve seen this in real life too.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        The amount of repetition is amazing. I think that it’s a good idea to read more before commenting sot see if a point has already been made.

    8. Kiwi*

      Alison, a couple of thoughts I’ve had:

      There’s text above the comment box that says “Please follow the site’s commenting rules”. I wonder if you could make that an on-the-spot summary of the rules, something like “Be kind, stay on topic and please follow the full commenting rules.” You could even make that text coloured so it stood out more.

      And there’s a link for reporting tech issues, but none for warning you about problematic comments or threads. If you added a link for that, that might help people get a warning to you quicker when hings start to spiral out of control. Community moderation without being community moderation ;-)

  127. Gandalf the Nude*

    I’m like 99% sure I’m in the ethical clear on this, but… taking a tuition reimbursement while job searching: fine as long as I’m eyes wide open about paying it back if I move on before the X month “commitment” period ends, right? We always say around here to plan as if you’re staying until you know for sure that you’re not, and I don’t know how long this job search will take. And I’m setting half of the reimbursement aside, just in case, and also hoping to negotiate for the new job to cover repayment.

    The only other thing squicking me out about it is that when Boss and I have previously talked about me eventually moving on (there’s no room for growth here), I told him I’d tell him when I started searching. I don’t like going back on my word on that, but he’s done a lot to lose my trust since then, and I think he’d try to get out of the reimbursement if he knew there was a good chance I wouldn’t stay the whole X months, even though I’m entitled to it under the policy as presented.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I don’t think it’s unethical either to take the reimbursement or not to let your boss know about your search right away. The only thing I’d worry about would be losing a reference if he finds out. Good luck!

    2. AndersonDarling*

      I’m in the same boat. I was considering starting school again, and I was prepared to pay back any reimbursement I used, but in the end I figured it would be better if I just got a new job, established myself, and started school with their tuition reimbursement.
      I also told my boss I would keep him in the loop if I started job searching, which I did. But the idea was that he would go to bat and try to get my the raise I deserved. When the raise didn’t come through, I keep looking and I’m not giving the updates anymore.

      1. Gandalf the Nude*

        I might have waited to use another job’s plan, but A) this program is going to make me a lot more marketable in this job search, and B) I didn’t want to risk having to put it off for a year or more if there’s a waiting period.

    3. Alex*

      You’re entitled to that reimbursement until you don’t work there anymore. So until you don’t work there anymore, you should feel free to take advantage of all your benefits. They are part of your compensation package, and since you’re still working there, you should still be compensated fully!

  128. Antinous*

    Does anyone have any advice on how to tell your boss you need better directions/instructions than they give? I moved into a new role which I have a little background in but not a ton of background and my boss is also particular. I’m a very literal person unless I’ve done the task before and already know the expectations I will take the task I’m asked to do at face value. I need at least the “this is the final product I expect” sentence thrown in there and I can work my way to that with out much instruction. It’s just a little frustrating to do X when someone else said do “X” but they meant “XYZ” and have them come back and have to walk you through what they actually wanted when I could have done it right the first time. I’m also afraid it might make me look incompetent or lazy like I wasn’t willing to do Y and Z when I really just didn’t know because I hadn’t done that task before or I didn’t realize task X is the same thing as task B from two months ago it just sounds different. I don’t want to sound demanding of my boss’ time but I do just need a little more explanation of tasks if I haven’t done them before otherwise it’s frustrating for the both of us. Any suggestions?

    1. CM*

      Ask more questions! When I had a job like this, I would have a list of questions including things like, what is the deadline, in what form would you like the final product, should I check in with anyone else about this, how often would you like me to check with you about this along the way. Then I would summarize, “OK, so you want me to do X by Deadline and you’d like an email with bullet points explaining what I did. Did I miss anything?”

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Yes, this. It also doesn’t hurt to end a meeting in which you’re given an assignment by repeating back your understanding of what the assignment is. “I just want to confirm you’re asking for X, Y, and Z…”

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Okay, so after you get the task, can you think through what you think the process should be and then ask them if you’ve got the right steps?

    3. Thlayli*

      There’s a technique where you summarise the conversation afterwards in 2 sentences either verbally or by email. So you say to your boss something like. Right, so I will produce x by (date) and it’s (describe your understanding of x and its limits).

      That way if there’s any misunderstanding you make it obvious from the start and don’t waste your time.

  129. Gimpy*

    cranky… office moved into a new building last week and it’s not a good choice. Old closed up space that needs the carpeting replaced & should have at least been steam cleaned, cubicles that should have been steam cleaned, asbestos notice outside the building, ceiling tiles missing in bathroom over accessible toilet, weird odors all over the place, no automatic/ADA door on the building (I’m a gimp with a cane), elevator always smells of cigarette smoke, first 4 days of move in we had no air conditioning & windows don’t open so we were soaked through by 11 am…..
    And today, they are doing repairs up in the ceiling, literally above my head. Like, shaking the light fixtures, screwing things in, sawing things off, terrified the ceiling is going to fall in on top of me. Had to toss my coffee because dust from the ceiling fell into it, light above my head rattled and shook so much I dropped my ice tea across my shirt (it had a closed top that came off). Every now & then small pieces of “stuff” and white powder drifts down in various places all over the office. I have a massive headache and terrified of what I am breathing today but I also have a massive deadline that I HAVE to meet before leaving today. Boss is on vacation.. no on is happy.

    Just needed to vent, trying to avoid a massive meltdown, and yes, I need a better job.

    1. Matilda Jefferies (formerly JMegan)*

      Good grief, that sounds awful. Best of luck to you in getting out of there.

    2. Bluebell*

      Wow. Can HR help you at all? The ADA door issue needs to be fixed for you, first of all. And when does boss get back? If you had a good relationship with grandboss and you were able to, I’d say you should work from home at least until dust wasn’t falling from your ceiling.

  130. Anne*

    WELP I cried in my supervisor’s office this morning for the first time in my career (I’m 29).

    My work is good but I’ve been coming in late more and more and later and later, and she’s told me before that this is an issue.

    Here is why: this job is ruining my mental health. It’s stressful, more than it should be, and there’s never enough time to do anything, and I keep getting more responsibilities put on me, which only results in me feeling (and sometimes looking) like a failure for not being able to handle it all. I’ve been given a level of responsibility and autonomy that frankly I don’t feel I’m suited to. The management here doesn’t help – the head of the org line-edits every piece of work product that anyone turns out, so things often sit with her till the last minute. And the hours are awful. Sometimes I have to stay up past 1 or 2am to finish a project or skype with someone abroad – this is happening more and more frequently now, multiple times a month.

    And I haven’t been handling it well. At all. I am still producing good work, but I’m getting it in closer and closer to the deadlines – and much worse, I have found myself staying up far too late because I can’t bear to go to bed, because once I got to bed I’ll wake up and have to go to work. And then I’ll wake up and lay in bed way too late, for the same reason.

    This morning I woke up at 8:30 and didn’t get out of bed for two hours. I couldn’t take a personal day or anything because there’s a big deadline, of course. I KNOW this isn’t acceptable. But I knew that the second I got out of bed until possibly the second I went back to bed tonight would be awful and I just couldn’t bring myself to do it.

    So I wound up crying in my supervisor’s office and telling her a lot of this, and she was sympathetic but said that what we need to do is figure out a way to better schedule all the things I have to do, not change any of my work responsibilities. I knew that wouldn’t happen – we are severely understaffed and that isn’t going to change. She also said that stress is just a part of working life and that I needed to figure out how to manage my stress better but that she would help me out with that.

    I have to get out of here. I haven’t been trying hard enough because whenever I’m not so busy at work I feel like I have to catch up on taking care of myself and my apartment and see all the friends I’ve been neglecting, but this time I really have to actually try to get another job.

    But I’m also scared that I really am just an unprofessional person who can’t handle any stress or responsibility, and that maybe this job isn’t worse than any other job. I’m scared that the fact that I keep showing up so late outweighs all the other stuff and that I really am to blame for how poorly I’m handling this. How can I know? I’ve only worked in one other office job and that was right out of college for like a year and a half.

    1. Hect*

      Hi! I’m around your age and was in the same situation for two years up until this January. I also didn’t job search though I know I needed to because I didn’t have time, also felt terrible all the time, my mental health was in shreds, I was exhausted, had no time for life outside work and when I did I felt like I had so many chores and friends and family to see I felt incredibly stressed out doing that. One week before I finally put my foot down and said screw this I spent crying and crying having toddler like break downs multiple times a day either outside work (in the mornings, in my car on the way home, etc) or in a bathroom at work. I don’t know you but I promise promise it’s not because you’re just inherently unprofessional or unable to handle stress. I had myself convinced of the same thing. I promise promise promise you if you get out into a job that better suites your personality (I’m good with a lot of responsibility but not the kind they were giving me I was awful at the tasks they were asking me to do outside my regular job description and they kept piling them on) you will feel better. You boss is right stress is a part of work life but not like you’re describing at all and do not believe her telling you feeling like your describing is normal. It’s not. Block out times to job search, be selfish, maybe find a friend or professional therapist you can talk to and just unload. Once you are out of these you won’t feel perfect right away, your self esteem will still be delicate, but overall it will be so much better. I wish you so much good luck!

    2. Michelle*

      So sorry you are going through this. Having a job that makes you not want to sleep because waking up means going in sounds very…stressful. Hoping you find something better soon.

      1. Anne*

        I didn’t even put that part together until recently, since I’ve always been a night owl. But in talking it over with my shrink I realized that I was totally doing it on purpose.

        In retrospect this isn’t the first time I’ve dealt with stressful stuff by, essentially, coming up with a plan and not telling myself about it! See also: cultivating an intense crush on a gay guy in high school for two years because it kept me from ‘having to’ date!

    3. The Other Dawn*

      I think you’re right to want to get out of there. And it sounds like you’re manager isn’t so great.

      This happened to me at my old job, which I’d been at for many years. I was early in my career and thought it was a moral failing that I couldn’t do All the Things. I pushed myself way beyond the point I should have, because I’d been told by my direct boss that nothing would change, nothing would be taken away, more would be added, and I had to learn how to get everything done. So, I figured that’s life and just did it. But then I basically had a serious meltdown in front of my indirect boss/mentor when he asked me how I was doing. Simple question, right? Well, the dam broke and I just lost it. Completely. He was quite shocked, to say the least, and was aghast that my direct boss’s attitude. Things changed after that. We hired someone to assist me in the department–I was a department of one, wearing MANY hats, in a tiny startup company–and I slowly started to recover from the burnout. It took a very long time, but I recovered. And I never forgot how my direct boss handled it; his name lives in infamy in my circle of former coworkers…

      I would normally say that you should speak to your manager about prioritizing, maybe delegating some things to other employees or departments, but it seems like you may have already done that. If you haven’t, then you should. Although based on your manager’s reaction thus far, I’m not hopeful.

      I hope things start looking up for you.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        I would add that at the very least you need to address the lateness. Right away. I totally get how hard it is to get yourself out of bed and into work when you dread it, but think of it this way: you have a job and going to it is inevitable if you want to earn money to have a roof over your head, eat, etc. You just have to get up and go. I find that thinking about certain things as required and inevitable helps me get through it. Might as well just get it over with so it can be done with.

        1. Anne*

          I definitely agree. I really do feel awful about it and I don’t want to be a bad employee at all. But clearly I need to come up with something other than just knowing I need to do it, because that hasn’t been working…

        2. nonegiven*

          Don’t stay late. Go in on time so you can put in a full day, go home and leave it all behind.

          1 am Skype calls and expected to be in on time the next day?

      2. Anne*

        Problem is there’s no one to delegate to – there’s the ED, three program staff, two finance staff, the office manager/HR/general everything person, and me (I do grant management and comms). My supervisor is actually the office manager because the ED and program staff are out of the country so often that it’s impossible for them to actually provide supervision – the ED was my supervisor when I stared (and had 1.5 years of experience) but I asked for more direct supervision and she wasn’t able to provide it.

        Did I mention that this staff of 8 manages a nonprofit that provides direct services in like 15 offices in 4 countries? (We have a lot of on-the-ground staff of course but they’re the ones providing the services.)

        1. misspiggy*

          Grant management and comms for 4 countries is not only two people’s jobs, it’s usually two departments’ jobs. Get out get out, the people who run this place are a disgrace. Your manager should have had the guts to go through your role, cut things out, and tell upper management that certain things would no longer be done until a new person was recruited.

          Let righteous anger be your guide, and stop giving any proverbials. Work your contracted hours or other reasonable schedule. If work is not done, it is not your problem, it is the problem of the people who run the organisation so incompetently.

          If you get pulled up on anything, ask which things are top priorities and politely explain that everything else is not going to get done. If they won’t give you priorities, draw up a list and say you’re suggesting to work to the following priorities going forward, do let me know if you’d like me to replace anything. After a week or two of using your increased free time to relax, get onto job searching.

    4. Amber Rose*

      You need to get out, obviously. For now though, what you can do:

      – Find out if you have access to a workplace EAP or any kind of stress counseling. Book yourself in.
      – Go to work on time, and leave on time.
      – Accept that the thing will be hell, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do it. “Work will suck. Oh well, better get moving.”
      – Document what you need to do and what you have done.
      – Email your boss with a daily update based on that document. “Here’s what I did. Here’s what I’m working on now. I don’t think I’ll be able to get to X, Y and Z until [date/time].”
      – Be super nice to yourself. You’re in a bad situation with unreasonable people. You are doing just fine despite that. So eat meals full of good food, get enough sleep, get a little exercise or stretch or something.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      Work can be stressful, but not every minute of every day. I get stressed out a few times a year, and it’s not even big stress.
      I’d find a new job. It sounds like your boss is sympathetic, but not really supportive if she isn’t going to help with the core problem. There are much better places to work where you can be happy with your job and happy with your life.

    6. CM*

      Cried in your boss’ office for the first time at 29? I think my first time was in my early 20s and the most recent time was in my 30s so you’re doing fine! Kidding aside, I think if you are miserable about getting up in the morning, it’s definitely time to job search, but please don’t blame yourself too much for having difficulty handling this. It is so common to be in a tough situation and wonder if something is wrong with you, but once you have some distance, I guarantee things will not look so bleak. I’m sure that you will come up with lessons that you can learn from this, but for now I hope you can cut yourself some slack and try to dismiss those thoughts about how you are just an unprofessional person. Put those thoughts on a shelf and re-examine them in six months. Meanwhile, it sounds you could use an ego boost from family, friends, or a trusted coworker who can remind you about all the positives that you are overlooking right now. You’ll need that for your job search.

    7. em2mb*

      Because I think it sometimes helps to hear it: your work environment is not normal, and it doesn’t have to be that way. I feel like a lot of places like this – with incredibly unreasonable expectations/demands on your time – will make you feel like this is just typical of the industry. Of course, that’s sometimes true, but there are good companies out there to work for. I’m also 29, and after working for four years at two hellish places that didn’t allow me to have any kind of life outside the office, I’m three years into a job that cares about me both as an employee and as a person. You aren’t unprofessional at all. It’s this job that isn’t professional.

    8. afiendishthingy*

      Hi! I’m a few years older than you and I don’t know how many times I’ve cried at work. It’s a lot. Most recent was the day before yesterday.

      I’m just back from taking a month of mental health leave and honestly I probably came back too soon, but people kept sending me meeting requests and they’re MY CLIENTS and there’s DEADLINES and we’re already super understaffed! so I just came back. My priority right now is taking care of myself. Hard to keep that priority when my stressed out coworkers, as sympathetic as they all are, still need me to complete certain tasks so they can get their own work taken care of. Meeting with Sympathetic Boss this afternoon to try and get some things taken off my plate at least temporarily (or until I find a new less burnout-provoking job, shhhh). (The meeting with Sympathetic Boss AND Unsympathetic Boss earlier this week didn’t go great.) My makeup looks awesome today so it sucks that there’s like a 90% chance of it getting smeared all over my face in this meeting.

      um back to you. Talk to your doctors, therapists, psychologists if you have them. You and your mental health really are more important than the company’s needs. Really really. This was hard for me to get but it is true. You need the time off. I did a cognitive behavior therapy partial hospital program, which sounds kinda scary? But was great, just a day program for 6 days to learn and practice new coping andn thinkingn skills.

      Because this week was hard, but I have a lot more clarity than I did before I took the time off. Take care of yourself.

    9. Marisol*

      Regardless of whether or not you are in the “right” or your employer is “in the right,” I think what you are experiencing is bigger than what can be addressed on a blog and that you need to find a life coach or therapist to help you suss this out. I’m inclined to think that it’s not you, it’s that the job situation is rotten. However, the fact that you have reached a point where you are both confused and immobilized makes me think you need a more in-depth analysis to help you out. Lots of people are miserable about their life circumstances, but oriented enough to have a plan to get through it. Others are confused about what they should be doing, but generally positive in their outlook. You sound unhappy and confused, and you’ve reached a point where you are almost unable to take action. I think that is serious, and deserves serious attention. You’re sort of in a state of helplessness and I am concerned that things will worsen without some sort of intervention. There’s nothing wrong with you; I’m not saying you are crazy, or a wierdo, or anything like that. But I think you need, at the very least, an in-person sounding board.

      1. Anne*

        I do have a therapist and am being treated for depression and anxiety – but I’ve had both of those all my life and am usually more functional than this, I can tell the job is making it worse. Therapist has been helpful in realizing that this place isn’t just ‘business as usual’ and has been encouraging me to apply for other stuff, but honestly I think I might ask him to push me harder on that (since he leans toward the ‘gentle support’ end whereas sometimes I kinda need a kick in the ass).

        For, geez, a couple of years, I’ve been in the mindset of “I will figure out what I want my next career to be and figure out what I need to do to make that happen and then go do that.” But now I think I really need to just jump ship for the exact same thing I’m already qualified for and the figure out all the crap about new industries and networking and retraining etc etc once I can breathe again.

        1. Marisol*

          Oh good. I am glad to hear that. The part about you not getting out of bed had me concerned. You could always keep your current therapist and find a life coach to specifically target the job/career situation. I follow some famous life coaches who have life coach training programs and referral websites–Michael Neill, Alan Cohen, Cheryl Richardson, Robert Holden, Steve Chandler are all great.

        2. afiendishthingy*

          seriously though, see if he can write you out of work for awhile – have you been there long enough to get fmla? take some time to take care of yourself, because your job is aggravating your depression and anxiety enough that it’s going to be really hard to get better AND look for a new job AND try to be functional at your current job all at the same time. That’s too much. Your health is most important.

        3. mreasy*

          As a person with serious mental health issues who had a similar situation with a job: your impulse to go somewhere similar for now is a good one. At this point, you don’t have the headspace or emotional strength to apply for new types of positions or stretch. But looking for something you’re qualified for, that’s a lateral move, somewhere you have good intel is NOT a nightmare like your current workplace, will give you space to consider your next step for the next year or two.

    10. S.*

      I’ve been in a really similar situation in my current job. I dread going to work, so I’ve been coming in later and later. In my case, part of the dread is that I’m really isolated, which means no one hold me accountable for being on time, but I still feel awful about it. I’ve been seeing a therapist and talking through this with her has REALLY helped, so I highly recommend that. Not only did she validate that my job is not the right job for me, and it’s not my fault, she also helped me manage some of my guilt about being late and figure out how to work on it. I’m not totally recovered, but I’ve been at work before 9:30 4 out of 5 days this week, which is huge for me. See a therapist if you’re able!

    11. Not So NewReader*

      I can’t prove my theory, but I tend to believe that younger people get roped into doing huge piles of work because the bosses know they have no reference points to know the workload is ridiculous. If you are female the problem gets bigger.

      Your workload sounds ridiculous.
      No job is worth ruining your health over. If you must quit then give your notice and leave. Then go home and start right away regrouping your life.

      Your boss does not have the skills in place to be a good boss. Just my opinion based on what you wrote here.
      FWIW, you are tougher than you think. I cried at work many times before I hit 29. I remember one job I had, I was about 22, I cried all the way to work and all the way home. Every. single. day. I did this for a year then they laid me off. It’s the job I compare all other jobs to, “Is this as bad as Old Job?” I suspect you might do a similar thing at subsequent jobs and you will find that your coping skills are actually pretty high.

  131. stress!*

    How do you concentrate on work when you’re experiencing an emotional upheaval?

    (Especially when deadlines loom and you can’t afford to take time out to recalibrate your emotions?)

    1. Shamy*

      This happened to me last year when my mother and dog passed away within a month of each other and I was a single mom to 2 children, one with special needs. I tried to just compartmentalize and do what I needed to, but if I was having a hard day, I would give myself a few minutes break and go outside, look at puppy pictures, anything. Even 5 minutes made a difference. So, while you may not have an hour to carve out and recalibrate, I think you will be surprised what just a few minutes will do.

    2. Ayup*

      I’ve recently been through a separation/divorce while working. I have a cubicle, not an office, so it’s not like I can just shut the door and let my guard down when I need to. It was SO tempting to write long emails to confidants, look up “advice” on the internet, go down the rabbit hole. And I did, plenty, but it would turn me into a directionless wreck at work.
      Ultimately I found that boxing up that hard stuff and not opening it during the work day helped. It even became a nice little “retreat” where I didn’t have to deal with that stuff while I was at work (and really, what would be gained by doing that anyways?).
      I’m sure that wouldn’t work for everyone, and I hope you discover something that helps you. Best of luck to you!

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      I have self-care stuff in my desk drawer. Things like nice hot chocolate and a book of mindfulness exercises.

  132. Melody Pond*

    I’ve been taking “vacation” time off from work, to recovery from a minor surgery, and I’m supposed to go back on Monday. I’m a little worried, though, that I’m not improving fast enough from my surgery, and that I may need to take another couple days off (like Monday or Tuesday).

    How would you guys handle the communication here, if you were in this position? Should I reach out today to the relevant people at work and mention this, that my recovery doesn’t seem to be progressing quite fast enough, and that I may not be back on Monday? Or should I just wait until Monday and see how I feel, and “call in sick” for that day (and then call in sick on Tuesday if I need that day, as well)?

    1. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      I would contact them today, this happened to me and they appreciated the heads up.

      1. Ayup*

        Yup, no harm in contacting them today. If you end up feeling well enough to show up on Monday you get brownie points! Right!?

      2. Elizabeth West*

        Definitely. Don’t wait until Monday. If you can make it in then, you might be able to show up a little later in the morning, but it won’t be a surprise to them if they’re expecting you back and you can’t manage it.

  133. ellis55*

    I realize that this probably does not crack the top-ten list of many peoples’ issues at work, but I am oddly not busy. Here’s the issue: everyone around me is constantly bleeding stress, staying at the office late, coming in on weekends, going on and on and on about how crushingly busy they are. I’m just, frankly, not. There are the rare times when I work overtime to complete something pressing, but even then it just doesn’t seem to be that crazy. I put in the time and keep it moving.

    I’ve done a lot of thinking around this, and I’m puzzled. I’ve always gotten good feedback on my work, pace, etc. so I’m fairly confident I’m not just putting in poor quality work. I’ve also never turned down an assignment or missed a deadline. I think maybe I’m just efficient, but even then it seems hugely taboo to ever admit that you had time to eat lunch or were planning something before 8pm. I eat lunch every day and while I don’t go out of my way to share what I do outside of work, some of my coworkers see on my social media that I occasionally can be found not working a 12 hour day.

    No one has ever said anything, but I’m worried I look lazy if I don’t play the game and at least pretend to be swamped, stressed, and spending every waking second on work. I am a definite outlier, and I’m worried I might be passed over for promotions, etc. if I seem calm. Another part of me thinks it’s ridiculous to play-act emotions I’m not feeling just for the benefit of others. What should I do?

    1. Rebecca*

      Some people just thrive on complaining, and I’m also running into people who follow procedures that are convoluted, to say the least, with no apparent business reason for it. One of my coworkers does things as if it’s common core math, instead of just doing the simple 47-19 = 28, she goes around the barn 12 times to get to the answer. Drives me batty. I just do my work in the most efficient way possible, offer to show easier/better/more streamlined ways, and just leave it alone when refused.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Yep. I have co-workers who make extra work for themselves and I think it is just so they can have the rush of appearing busy. We had to investigate why a process was taking 3 hours longer than expected, and it was because they had a drawer full of spreadsheets they had created. We.Were.Horrified. They had lists, and lists, and lists where they would document irrelevant information. No one could justify why they did it. But they sure loved complaining about how busy they were.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      It’s funny, my views on “being swamped with work” have changes aver the years. I used to think that crazy busy people were important, but I have since realized that they are usually disorganized or that they just love the appearance of being busy. (Of course, some people really are buried with work.) I have more respect for people who manage their time well, manage their workload, know when to push back, and know when to delegate.
      So I don’t think you need to worry. If you were in my office, you’d be the one I would trust with Big Project.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Totally agree. I used to think that working late=working harder. Nope. Not usually true (in my experience). Once I got that out of my mind, I realized that the people who have a great work/life balance are the ones who are usually the best at what they do and are the most effective in their jobs.

    3. Aims*

      Having ‘slow’ days too often is very draining and can be a struggle. I’ve been there as well and hated it. I pursued additional work and took initiative on any projects I could. This not only filled my time, but reflected well and gained me favour with my Senior Manager.

      Biggest piece of advice…if you truly are completing all required work to an excellent standard and have a lot of time left in your day on a regular basis, bring it to your manager. Lay out what you are doing daily, compare it to your original job description to ensure you aren’t missing anything you should be responsible for, and see if there are more things you can take on or become involved in. A good manager will recognize a strong and efficient employee and take advantage of your skills and time.

      Other semi-productive things you can do in the meantime:
      – streamline your digital filing system
      – organize your desk/file space
      – watch web tutorials on relevant training topics (I believe Udemy has many free options)
      – read the news
      – read relevant publications for your industry
      – put on your headphones and an enjoyable podcast while pretending to work (lol, kind of kidding)

    4. Ann Furthermore*

      I give people who are constantly busy and stressed out the side-eye, because in my experience, it’s usually a situation of their own making — at least in part. I worked for a woman years ago who would come into the office each day by 8 or 9, spend the entire day flitting around socializing and talking with people, and then at about 4:00 she’d go into her office and start working and put in 9 or 10 hours. Then people would tell her, “Oh you poor thing, I saw an email from you last night at 2AM!” And she would bask in the attention, and also loved to talk about the long hours she worked and how much she had to do.

      Then at my last company I worked on a project with a bunch of people who wore the number of hours they worked like a badge of honor. I’ve never seen people so adept at creating extra work for themselves. It was astounding. Then on top of that, they would talk about how they worked until 2 or 3 in the morning, expecting people to be awestruck and impressed with their dedication. They especially loved to do this on conference calls, saying that this or that deadline had not been met because, “We all worked until 2AM this morning. We’re exhausted.” And the PM would fawn all over them, expressing all kinds of sympathy.

      Then after I spent a month-end with these idiots, I had to set the PM straight and tell her to quit taking any pity on them, because I’d seen for myself what “working until 2AM” really entailed. Yes, they would work until 2 in the morning, but because it was so late, no one would show up at the office the next day until at least 11. Which was pretty close to lunch time, so they’d waste a bunch of time figuring out where to order lunch from, and then waste at least another hour eating lunch when it was delivered. So no one started doing any actual work until about 1 in the afternoon. Then starting at about 6 or 7, someone would start circulating a menu for dinner, and it would be the same thing all over again. So by the time it was all said and done and everyone went home, it was still no more than your standard workday getting in 7 or 8 hours worth of work.

      Now of course there are times when you’re swamped, and busy, and things are crazy, but by and large, people who operate like this all the time, and spend a lot of time talking about it, are just creating drama for themselves, and doing it for the attention.

      1. Mazzy*

        I have a different experience I myself am someone who is good at finding and making work. Other people look at our products and contracts and invoices and accounting and think everything is great and then I walk in and see a hundred problems. Usually those problems then become mine because usually no one else understands the problem. So even when I delegate I still have to check the persons solution or train them in it all together. Hence I tend to be busier than other folks, sans martyr complex!

    5. Hnl123*

      You could be me! I’m always ‘comfortably busy” or “comfortably non-buys” depending how you look at it, while my coworkers are totally frazzled. One of my coworkers was constantly staying VERY late at work, constantly complaining about the workload, constantly busy…. until she left, and the work was able to be handed off to a MUCH junior person who still finishes at 5pm everyday.
      I think some people might not be quite as efficient, may over-complicate otherwise simple processes, like to appear important, etc. Of course, I’m not trying to say all people are like this.
      I wouldn’t worry about looking lazy. I don’t proclaim how bored I am or anything, but I’ve made it a point NOT to say “I’m so busy” either. I say something like, “It’s all under control”

  134. The Other Dawn*

    This is just venting.

    So, I’m supposed to be working on a project…and I just don’t want to do it.

    I’m in banking, which is highly regulated. Certain things have to be done whether we think they have any value or not. The examiners have made a recommendation two years in a row to do this tedious thing that will yield no meaningful return for so much work, so I’m trying to slog through it as best I can. (And it’s taking a really long time because I.don’t.want.to.do.it.) What’s making it harder is certain team members are complaining about it. Fine. I don’t want to do it either, think it’s almost pointless, and is a waste of time. We all do. But certain people keep complaining about it and it’s driving me batty. The other day I finally said, “Yes, this absolutely sucks, but we have to do it. It is what it is, and I don’t know what else I can possibly say about it. We just need to get it done and over with.” This was after explaining why we need to do it, the fact that if we don’t the next exam may not go as well (repeat recommendations and findings are not good!), among other things.

    Just frustrated. I used to love research and writing, and I just don’t anymore. So time-consuming. I’m much more task-oriented these days. But it’s part of my job, which I enjoy overall.

    1. Emily*

      That sounds so frustrating – I feel where you’re coming from. Maybe some people are good at slogging through unpleasant tasks, but I’m not, and it doesn’t sound like you are, either.

      Good luck with finishing! Hopefully after you do, you’ll get to work on something you like.

    2. JustaTech*

      Yup, been there. There’s the right way, the wrong way and the GMP way (in my field).

      Maybe next time your coworkers whine about it, you could say “we do it, and we do it this way, or we go to jail.” (If that’s true. Substitute whatever the actual legal penalty is.)

      As for the mindset to get through it, that’s harder. A tiny treat for every little section you finish?

  135. Spacecadet51*

    I currently live in Los Angeles area and looking to move back to bay area. I apply for jobs there, but not getting may replies. I am concerned that its due to my location. On my cover letter, I let them know that I am willing to travel at my own expense, but not sure that’s enough.

    Has anyone here secured a job from another city? Did it work out and just overall looking for advice.

    Thanks

    1. Elizabeth West*

      That’s weird, because you’re not THAT far away. Not in another state or anything.

      I’m having trouble because I’m in a different state and nobody seems to want to give me the time of day. So I’m going to watch your question to see what people say.

      1. Spacecadet51*

        Exactly Elizabeth! I was just up there this weekend for a workshop. Getting there for an interview isn’t a major issue.

    2. SL #2*

      I moved from SF back to LA two years ago for this job with 1 phone interview and 1 Skype interview. It’s doable, I promise! Make sure you practice your long-distance interview skills as well (phone, Skype, Google Hangouts).

      In general, it helps if you have local ties to the region. In my interview I was explicitly asked “why LA, why now, when you went to school in the Bay Area and all your job experience has been there or in DC?” and I was able to say that I have family in LA, this is where my roots are, and this is where I want to make impact. It was a compelling enough answer that they made the offer to me and not to any other local candidates.

      1. Spacecadet51*

        Thank you SL #2! Your reply is encouraging. Now I am originally from SF and my reason for going are opportunities. The stuff I look at here doesn’t move me or excite me. But when I look there, I see many things I am interested in. Plus I’ve been wanting to go back.

        1. SL #2*

          It’s sooo much easier long-distance job-searching when you can say in your cover letter that you have very specific reasons to want to move and work in that region. Good luck!

          2. Elizabeth West*

            Oooh something to think about, thanks. I lived in CA before, though not in L.A., so I’ll have to think something up. I don’t know if “better opportunities for growth than in my area” would be enough, even though it’s true.

    3. Lurky McLurkerson*

      I think its different for everyone but I managed to obtain a job in Tennessee while I was living in Florida. Besides being qualified for the niche testing they do at my lab I also mentioned my extreme flexibility with my start date in my cover letter. Basically I was able to move at the end of my two weeks notice because I didn’t have a lease/mortgage to worry about and I live a very minimalist lifestyle so everything I owned fit in a middle size u-haul trailer. I secured an apartment a week after I received my official offer letter and started exactly when anyone living locally might’ve.

      But like I said starting so fast when you have to move from a distance may not be feasible for everyone.

  136. MegaMoose, Esq*

    It is astonishing to me how many people manage to graduate from law school and maintain a license without being able to read. Oh, who am I kidding – of course they can read, they just chose to ignore my incredibly clear emails and BRIGHT RED whiteboard instructions.

    Ug.

    1. Jules the First*

      Oh they can read…you just work with a bunch of Rebels (Gretchen Rubin!).

      I’m so sorry that they will never appreciate the genius that is your red lettered whiteboard. (Not sure how to convey that this is not sarcastic…I’m genuinely bummed and there’s nothing you can do…)

    2. Sparkly Librarian*

      I empathize. There is a considerable overlap with those individuals who appear to have typical hearing and yet can hear me say something two or three times in the space of a minute before then asking me a question I’ve just answered — as if it were the first occasion the topic had come up!

  137. Aims*

    How do you deal with a lot of negativity at work? I manage communications and public engagement for a medium sized city (150,000), and not only is my work generally based around negative issues brought up by the public (mostly false assumptions) which is expected, but my coworkers are very negative.

    I expect my work to lean this way, but having such negative people around me is draining and stressing me out. In my own life I am a positive person with a good perspective on how good we have it in life (not a happy-go-lucky sunshine and roses optimist, but generally positive person).

    How do you each deal with coworkers who are always on the negative side of things, whether that is complaining about things in their daily life, assuming the worst in situations, always pointing out the issues without sharing solution, or generally talk with a negative slant? It seems like when I try to counter them with something positive too frequently it feels like I’m disagreeing and correcting them which does not help build the relationships.

    1. Spacecadet51*

      My manager tends to be quite negative about a lot of things – work and personal. It can be like a black storm cloud because she never brings anything positive to the table. She drives many in the office crazy and they try to not deal with her when the don’t have to.

      As for my interactions, I limit them. When we have to work together and she starts up, I change the subject. And there’s been a couple times I’ve offered to complete a task alone. Sometimes, that will get her attention but she is just really not self-aware and not understanding why folks don’t like being around her. She’s my lead and there are times she isn’t getting things done. I go around her without it being obvious or offensive. But all interactions are limited with boundaries set.

    2. Thlayli*

      The best thing I ever did was take up martial arts. There’s something about being punched in the face and punching other people in the face to make the rest of your life seem like less of a big deal.

  138. A plea to managers*

    I’ve been a legal assistant for five years. The 4:30pm fire drill is part of the job, I know.

    But… listen. If you’re lucky enough to have an assistant, afford them the time to do their job well. When an attorney asks me to do something in 30 minutes that, done correctly, would take 1-2 hours, I’ll get it done if I can, but it’s going to be slapdash, I’m not going to be proud of my work product, and I’m going to remember that you’re the king of last minute work.

    When attorneys assume my job doesn’t take as long as it does, it tells me they don’t respect or value the work I do. You might be pleasantly surprised at your assistant’s work product if you just give them the time to do it right.

    1. Forrest Rhodes*

      On the wall of my dad’s business was a sign that said:
      ‘You can have it FAST
      You can have it CHEAP
      You can have it GOOD.
      Pick two.”

      This probably wouldn’t extrapolate to an office-type position, but I still have that sign over my own desk.

      3. Thlayli*

        I’ve seen signs in offices saying “you can have it done fast or you can have it done well”.

    2. T3k*

      Sounds like my last boss. She wanted a full time teapot designer, so I was hired. Problem was, most of the work could easily be done in the first half of the day, and I spent the better part of one season web surfing because there wasn’t much to do. Then, out of the blue, I’m given a project that needs to be done by the next day and it’s not a simple one day project. The kicker? She had forward’ed me the email of all the stuff and what was needed and I saw the date on it: she had known about it for a month but never mentioned it to me until right before the deadline. The really sad part is she was also the type to order things at the very last minute (like, a day or two before she needed it), then complain to the vendor because it hadn’t arrived on time. *sigh*

      1. A plea to managers*

        EXACTLY. This week I made a nicely organized, tabbed, indexed binder of 50 documents early in the day. At 4:30 I was directed to make two more. They’d received the documents four days earlier. There was just no good reason for it to be a last minute job.

    1. Michelle*

      “The idea for Nicholas Serota’s leaving gift came from the staff themselves who wanted to mark his 26 years of service to Tate,” it said
      Which members of the staff came up the idea? Other members of management? According the article many of the non-management workers can barely afford to pay their bills, so I seriously doubt they wanted to give this man a boat.

      2. Jules the First*

        Erm. It was most likely a group of people who don’t actually need the salaries they draw who thought that would be a good leaving gift. You know, the kind of people who ask casually if you’d like the LVMH carry on they got as the giftbag at their last party because they can’t bring themselves to use something that covered in logos.

        It just never occurred to the people who suggested it that £241,000 was a lot of money. They weren’t trying to be gauche; they’re just clueless. (*disclaimer…fairly sure I know a few of the indiviuals involved personally, though we do our best not to talk shop when we do go out so I can’t ask)

        1. Thlayli*

          I don’t think employers should be asked to donate to managers in general, and this was a ridiculous request … but:
          1 his salary was 214k, not the boat
          2 the boat was described as a “dinghy” which apparently you can buy a decent one for only about 2k; in a company of hundreds of staff they were probably thinking if people gave a pound or two each it would all add up
          3 it was absolutely voluntary and no one was forced to hand over money

          Now I agree it was totally tasteless and for someone on a zero hour contract (which should be utterly illegal) then a pound or two can be an awful lot. And they are very divorced from their workers lives if they don’t realise that.

          But let’s not make it sound worse than it is.

  140. Just passing by*

    I just returned from a short maternity leave this week (had been working full-time for a few weeks, but 2 days in the office and 3 days home). There is so much to catch up on – it’s like nothing got done while I was out, so it’s a lot of putting out fires, picking up pieces, and running. The job was already all about running before I went on leave because we’re a 2-person marketing department for a million dollar company!

    I’ve decided I want to move on. Recruiters contact me all the time, and I took a couple up on their offers. I then slung out some resumes — literally just resumes, I didn’t bother with cover letters — figuring that I could put myself out there and the right places would see my experience and decide whether to talk to me there, and got a bunch of callbacks. I’ve juggled 2 in-person interviews, have 2 phone screens today, and am in touch over email with yet another. This is in addition to another one that didn’t make it past phone screen, and another that didn’t pan out after in-person because they reorganized the department and eliminated the position I was up for.

    I am so overwhelmed. On top of all of this, I have a 3-month-old baby at home! This is an absolute embarrassment of riches, so I’m feeling guilty about feeling so stressed. But I really desperately want to make a change. The next phone screen I have today is for my absolute top choice, and it would involve relocating to another state (which they would cover). For the first time in, oh, 10 years? I’ve got crazy nerves. Trying to calm myself down AND get stuff done but it’s so hard! It’s like I thrive on stress.

    1. Manders*

      Good for you! That’s a lot to take on all at once. Fingers crossed that you’ll end up in a better place soon.

  141. Anon here*

    Has anyone ever had a supervisor that never spoke to them? I was his assistant and he wanted nothing to do with me. He only spoke to me when he had to/would email me everything. He was dismissive, condescending, and a bully. He was only out for himself. I tried to make conversation,but he wouldn’t have it. He didn’t hire me directly, so he was stuck with me and took it out on me. Yet he would get mad at me for being quiet, the sound of my voice, the way I dressed/styled my hair…. it was awful.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Yes and it was awful. He did happily get fired in the end… but not before a bunch of us quit from the stress.

  142. Beltane*

    Gosh, my coworker is loud and obnoxious and I have to share an office with him. From the moment he walks in he’s slamming things on the desk, grunting, snorting, belching, talking about the most mindless stuff, loudly listening to videos on his phone, asking me questions he knows the answers to but just wants to talk….i’m going crazy. I’ve been wearing bit noise-canceling headphones to send the signal of “do not bother” and I’ve told him to cut the talking but he still yaks away. It’s becoming a job-deal-breaker for me. I think the belching is the worst because he apologizes behind it in a cutesy “ex-cuuuuse me!” but they’re so loud and disgusting.

    1. Hazel Asperg*

      Oh goodness, this sounds horrible. Thinking about what Alison might say, I think a more direct conversation with him is going to have to happen. I’m not great at those scripts, but I’m sure others can weigh in.

  143. TheLazyB*

    What’s the best away day you ever had? What made it good?
    My team had​ a really good one this week.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I’ve never been on one and I’m dying to!

      What was great about yours? Don’t leave us hanging!

      1. TheLazyB*

        Haha sorry!

        It had good discussions that were relevant to our work and our team. It was in a location that worked for everyone. It had a quiz that was work related but that also had some humorous questions. The sessions were fairly short and well structured, good actions resulted, there were regular breaks, time to chat over lunch, neither too long nor too short.

        And pastries in the morning. And muffins. And plenty of good tea and coffee :D

    2. SL #2*

      Hmm, “away day” as in a scheduled, structured retreat? Or just “away day” as in, you’re not in the office but you might be off-site doing other work?

      We have both regularly and our retreats are always full of strong, smart ideas, but us being off-site (usually because we’re running a program) really brings out the best in my team, I think.

      1. TheLazyB*

        Usually going away from the office as a team/directorate to discuss work but also as a kind of team building exercise. And to find out more about what other parts of your extended team do. I’m in the UK.

    3. Sparkly Librarian*

      I’ve got one scheduled next month, and when the planning team solicited our opinions about what absolutely should or should not be included, I referred to the previous year’s retreat and asked that some downtime be built in to the schedule. Last year there was a bit of time midmorning and midafternoon set aside with no requirements made of us; I found it immensely helpful to mentally rest and gather my thoughts without having to be “on” and socializing. No working lunch either — yeah, it helps us stick by union/labor rules, but it also creates a break in a long day in which to process. There was outdoor space. We were all stuck in the same place all day, but we were fed (didn’t have to plan those logistics) and didn’t have to talk to each other unless we really wanted to — and when you saw someone sitting alone during that time, there was no obligation to engage them in conversation. I know my boss did that intentionally, and I know she’s aware she works with a lot of introverts (and perhaps also identifies that way). It was deeply appreciated.

  144. Flailing Fish*

    This is more of an excited comment than anything. I’m graduating next month from my undergraduate university and I’ve been sending out applications since February and I’m finally starting to hear back. I had a sorta interview today (with a recruiting agency) and they are gonna send me up for the actual interview with the law firm, and I have a phone interview next week for another position. I’m just excited that I’m finally starting to hear back. This blog has been great helping with applications (:

  145. Rat Racer*

    I am finding myself back in the awful and familiar spot of walking eggshells around my boss, second guessing every email I send, lamenting every word that comes out of my mouth (why oh why did I THAT?). I hate being in this space, and hate the cringey little creature I become when I think I’ve fallen out of favor with management. Now that I have my own team of direct reports, I know from experience that you can get frustrated from time to time when an employee makes a mistake, and that doesn’t mean you write them off completely. I’m trying to keep that in mind…

    1. Biff*

      That sounds like it might be a toxic workplace. Or you might just have a dip in ye ol’ self esteem tank. Something I like to do when I am fighting with the feeling of being a crap employee is freshening up my resume or linked in. It reminds me of all the skills I have, and what I truly bring to the table. And also what they stand to lose!

    2. TheLazyB*

      My anxiety is bad enough that this week our team’s senior manager asked for a catch up with my line manager and I immediately spiralled into panic that it was somehow about me.

      I need to deal with my bad-job-PTSD. It was over 15 years ago ffs!!!

  146. Biff*

    We were talking earlier this week about jobs that play coy with salaries and how much we hope that trend is dying.

    It seems to be moving instead of dying. I am seeing a ton of ads for apartments that don’t list how much it is per month! It’s crazy. Same types of phrases to cover up the fact that they won’t tell you the cost, even if you directly ask for it. I can only hope it moves along back to luxury stores, which are the only place playing coy with the price seems fair.

    1. Manders*

      Oh my god, I hate this trend so much. I’ve been trying to find a new place to practice martial arts, and half the dojos in my area refuse to list prices on their websites. My automatic assumption when someone’s hiding information about money is that they’re asking for something ridiculous.

      I’m still seeing a ton of companies in my area playing coy about salaries, alas. “Market rate” and “depends on experience” mean nothing when you’re also mischaracterizing jobs as entry-level or using the market rate from 10 years ago.

      1. Biff*

        I’m curious, have you had this experience too; getting sucked into interviewing for a position that looks like it’s a mid-level, or even senior role, only to find out that they are looking for someone to do entry-level work (that is usually pure drudgery or endless Project Tedious?) I’ve applied for a couple of jobs now where the position is described as requiring 3-5 years experience, and the pay is the low end of the range, but when I get to the interview they want me to do stuff I was doing ten years ago.

        1. Biff*

          the reason I ask is because it seems to be somehow part of the whole ‘let’s be coy’ paradigm in the job postings there days.

        2. Manders*

          I haven’t had that experience because I haven’t been out of college for 10 years and I’m not applying for senior level roles, but I’ve noticed that a lot of companies are giving me tests before a phone interview and those tests are on very basic stuff. Sometimes it turns out that they’re actually hiring for an entry-level position and not being up-front about it, sometimes they really are looking for someone with an appropriate level of experience.

          I’m in a field where you can’t really become an expert past a certain point–there’s a base level of knowledge that you need, but to succeed you have to be willing to experiment and you’ve got to keep up with changing trends. It makes it hard to figure out what to expect from those mid-level positions when you have enough experience to hit the ground running but you haven’t managed anyone or overseen a big-budget campaign.

  147. Jan Levinson*

    I don’t have a question today, but…I just wanted to share how excited I am to leave for vacation tomorrow, and have all of next week off of work! Going to Destin, FL. :)

    Happy Friday, everyone!

    1. Matilda Jefferies (formerly JMegan)*

      Nice! My vacation starts three weeks from tomorrow, not that I’m counting. Have a good time!

  148. MegaMoose, Esq*

    It’s been a bit of a slow week in the great networking project, but I did have a phone call with a recruiter this week, so we’ll see if that goes anywhere. He mentioned that I might be interested in looking into compliance jobs. I don’t suppose anyone here works in compliance, either as an attorney or otherwise? I’ve had people tell me to look into it before (as I joked to the recruiter, it seems to be on account of my having good attention to detail, enjoying statutory interpretation, and having a high tolerance for things other people find boring) but I don’t have a sense of what sort of jobs exist and what kind of background you’d need. I know, I know… time for more networking. Sigh.

  149. JC Denton*

    Have you ever left a professional job before the year mark was up?

    I had been in negotiations with a new company before they got hit with a hiring freeze almost a year ago. I’ve been at my current employer several years and recently totally changed teams because the old team’s culture was acidic enough to eat through solid concrete. When the new company entered their indefinite hiring freeze, I pulled the trigger on the team change to save myself from the old team and to stop denying myself opportunities hoping that the hiring freeze would end. Now that the new company is back and has made an offer I like, I’m torn because I’ve never resigned from a job before spending a year+ there.

    I feel like this can be my “just one time” <1 year resignation and caveat it with the other job having been frozen in ice for a long, long time – potentially forever – and most importantly, before I even considered transferring. Anyone else ever do something like this? If so, how did you feel about it?

    Side question: What are your thoughts on salary negotiations when a figure is stated by the employer, pulled back during a hiring freeze and replaced with a lower number when the offer is made? Only when the candidate is about to walk on the offer do they recant and fix things. To me that's operating in extremely bad faith, but knowing the employer, it could also be bureaucracy and ineptitude. Would you ever trust them again regarding benefits? I take some solace in that it's HR doing the salary negotiating and not the actual department and management itself.

    1. Biff*

      Mmmm, I don’t think this even counts as your one cut-and-run because you’ve been with the company for years. You might have only been in the role for less than a year, but you’ve been on the job for years. I think you don’t need to worry about this.

      As for your second question… that’s pretty awkward and may indicate a company that isn’t doing too well. I’d ask myself if the new team is a healthy place? How does the other company stack up to your CURRENT position, not your previous one? I know I have a problem with sticking things on pedestals, and it might be that if you think this through again, the new company might not offer that much above your current position.

      It’s also possible that the lesser salary is more in line with real wages in your area. The company might hav3e been too generous in the past, which led to their solvency issues. So do ask yourself if the salary being offered now is in line with your area/level of expertise. If it is, then that may not be a bad sign.

    2. KiteFlier*

      I haven’t been in your specific position, but I think this is less of a big deal than if it were less than one year at a separate company. If you’ve been with the same company for several years, I think people won’t blink if you’ve been in a different role for less than a year.

  150. super anon*

    I had an interview this week, and they sent me a request for references today.

    However, it’s for a Project Manager position, except you won’t be managing a project team. Your team is you, and one part-time admin that doesn’t report to you. You also have to do development to get the funding each year to pay for the project. The pay is really, really low (50k) and considering I’ll have my PMP by the time the position starts I feel like I could get significantly more as a PM. It would be a downgrade from my current role in everything except title as well.

    also, biggest red flag – I was told that the number one thing they screened applicants for was the ability to do “heart work”, explained that you would burn out and not be able to do the work if you didn’t really care for what you were doing. aka: we will pay you little, and work you a lot, and use “but the cause” as a reason to work you so hard.

    so, pretty much a bust, but it was exciting to get an interview for a pm position and has given me the confidence to keep applying to roles!

  151. Prof Plum*

    I’ve developed a bad professional reputation by association and circumstance.

    I lost a job of 4 years in brand management to nepotism about 2.5 years ago. Luckily, I found what seemed to be a great sales job less than a month later. But it wasn’t: the owner enticed me with some flat out lies about a few crucial operational details, and soon after I came on board he was hit with 2 lawsuits. I was let go after 15 months.

    Then the GM of my earlier job hooked me up (I guess out of guilt) with another sales job, not at his company. I took the role to make ends meet, as I was looking for a management role again, and the gig fit in well as I was going back to school for an AAS degree (it helps me understand my industry much better, but it isn’t directly related to sales or brand management.) I’m still in the role, 10 months now, with the degree, but this company is flimsy – the owner doesn’t pay her vendors, and so she (the owner) has a lousy reputation that I wasn’t aware of.

    I should add that I was hired in these two roles for my knowledge, but not experience. Both owners are based out of state, and don’t take into my account that I know the lay of the land. This adds to my frustration.

    So I am currently going on interviews, but I’m always questioned about why I was let go twice in the span of two years (no fault of my own), and why I haven’t progressed professionally in the last 3 years. Ultimately I’m not selected.

    How can I recover from this? I’m in a niche and dare I say it a “sexy” industry (it wasn’t when I started 20 years ago, it was still geeky). And as I’m over 50 years old, I don’t want to be perceived as washed up. I’m really not a “sales guy”, and I do try to dress and act the older, more accomplished part, but I do own my role. Unfortunately, companies see my history and pass on me. My confidence is wearing thin.

    Long rant over, any words of wisdom available?

    1. JustaTech*

      It sounds like the second job you lost was plain bad luck and you bounced back promptly, if not in the way you wanted. I’m less sure how you’d spin the nepotism thing, but the second job was plain bad luck and the reason you haven’t progressed professionally was that you had a string of bad luck that kept you moving laterally rather than vertically. And you have progressed professionally, because you got a new, industry relevant degree.
      I might try and spin the lateral moves as how you’ve gotten breadth of experience in the field.

      Good luck!

    2. Chaordic One*

      I’m aware that this will sound a bit corny, but do take good care of yourself. You know, the usual things. Get some exercise and enough sleep. Stay hydrated. Even though you’re a man, consider using a facial moisturizer. You can find some good ones in the men’s section of just about any supermarket or drug store or Wal-Mart-like store. When you feel good, you’ll interview good.

  152. A non*

    Question re time off:

    So I’m relatively new to my small dept within a large organization. I took about 4 days of vacation a couple weeks ago – something I already felt slightly guilty about since I had only been at the company for ~7 months (this is my second job out of college, and at my last job they had fairly strict PTO policies; if it were up to the CEO, employees wouldn’t be allowed to take vacation until they completed 1 year of employment). Then, this week, I had jury duty. I told my employer and everything was fine – I ended up being out for only a day. BUT THEN on Thursday my elderly cat got sick. I took her to the vet after work and they ended up putting her down. Needless to say, I was (am) devastated and heartbroken. My fiance suggested I take a personal or sick day today, but given how much time I’ve already been out this month, I felt like this might be improper?

    Maybe I’m just unnecessarily strict with myself and old-fashioned about “face time” at work? I certainly recognize that I’m entitled to vacation, and that the last two were unforeseen events beyond my control. But, somehow, having all of them happen within a 3-week span seemed like it would have been…I dunno, too much?

    FWIW: My employer hasn’t given me any indication that I’ve been out too much. And we have an insanely generous vacation bank and even more generous sick bank.

    1. Ayup*

      Sorry about your cat. :-( It sounds like your new employer has so far been reasonable and not somehow blaming you for jury duty (which would be bonkers).

      Taking time off because of your cat might be ok, assuming your work load is under control and no one is falling behind or picking up your slack. But keep in mind that not everyone has such a soft spot for their pets and so they may not ‘get’ your grief. Also… today is a Friday and any unplanned days off that bump up against weekends are going to be under the microscope more than a Tues/Wed/Thu, unfortunately.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      I am so sorry about your cat! :(

      I struggle with this too, to an extent, but I absolutely wouldn’t include the vacation days in the mix.

      In the past month, the older dog got sick- requiring a day off, and 2 part days, my husband’s grandfather died (and we both used the full 3 day bereavement- we only used one day in October when his grandmother died) , then the other dog got sick and needed a leave early to get her to the Vet , and then a bout of insomnia made a sick day required (well, half a sick day. WFH afternoon). So I start to get uncomfortable about taking so many not vacation days, when the sick/personal time is not even regulated as long as you aren’t being a problem. It feels like I’m trying to take advantage, but then I tell myself sometimes it just ends up that way…

      But like I said, I wouldn’t even consider vacation days part of that. And it’s not like jury duty was even a choice!

      So relax. It’s not too much.

  153. Death Rides a Pale Volvo*

    Somewhat silly question, but what the hell:
    I’m working on a transition file, as my last day is next week. I created a spreadsheet, listing each of my duties, linking to Google Drive folders and files, explaining what actions need to be taken or who will be taking projects over going forward.
    A colleague, who will have some duties transferred to a future direct report of hers, doesn’t want it to be formatted like this. She wants separate Google docs for each task and laid out in a format she deems useful. All the info she wants is in my spreadsheet, and is easy to find. I don’t have a lot of time left here and I’m trying to finish everything: am I right in saying [not like this, obvs] “Here’s all the info you want, if you’d like it organized differently, that’s on you” ?

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      That’s what I would do.

      “So sorry, I don’t have time to reformat it for you. But everything you need is there!”

    4. animaniactoo*

      “You’re free to re-organize it however you want, but for my handoff I need to keep this consistent with what I’m doing for everyone else to minimize the chances that I make mistakes or forget to include things.”

      You’re not wrong at all.

    5. Damn it, Hardison!*

      It’s like she doesn’t understand how lucky she is that she’s getting that much documentation! She should be gracious about it and reformat it to her heart’s desire once you leave.

    6. Ramona Flowers*

      Reasonable. I mean, I’m a spreadsheet hater and I’d be wishing it was in another format, but that would be my problem.

    7. Death Rides a Pale Volvo*

      This colleague of mine is very controlling…not the main reason why I’m leaving, but it doesn’t hurt, either. I once said of her, “She’ll not only tell you how to do your own job, she’ll tell you exactly how you are to do it, when you can take bathroom breaks doing it, and how to wipe yourself when you’re in the bathroom.” Fun times!

  154. Conflicted....*

    I started working at a coffee chain a couple weeks ago and just received my first paycheck and with it a dilemma. I’m being paid a dollar per hour more than I remember us agreeing to when I started (I don’t have a copy of the paperwork.)

    On one hand they’re a national chain so an extra dollar per hour isn’t going to get them and whoever keyed that into the system thought it was an appropriate salary. On the other hand, bringing it up would show that I’m an ethical employee, and as I’m a high school student I don’t need to pay rent or buy groceries.

    Thoughts?

    1. Gandalf the Nude*

      Bring it up. If they catch it later, they’ll want that money back, and you don’t want it to happen in a big lump sum. Also, you don’t just want to show that you’re an ethical employee, you want to actually be an ethical employee. Sure, if they never catch the mistake, they’ll never know that you got a bunch of money you weren’t supposed to, but that won’t change that you knew and didn’t say anything.

      Also, regarding the keying: even we in HR make typos.

    2. Thlayli*

      Personally I would keep it but put the extra aside in case you end up having to pay it back. You can always say you didn’t notice.

  155. smokey*

    Is it legal to work during FMLA leave? Nevermind if it’s moral or if your employer should ask you to.

    2. nonegiven*

      You can do intermittent fmla, like if you have a lot of medical appointments but you can still work half days or you need a week for treatments every few weeks.

  156. Pharmgirl*

    What’s the best way to indicate an acquisition on a resume when the new company only acquired one particular department from the old company?

    I was thinking:

    Cvs/health (December 2015-present)
    (Via acquisition of Target’s pharmacies)
    -pharmacy manager
    -staff pharmacist

    Target (August 2012-December 2015)
    (Pharmacy acquired by Cvs in 2015)
    -staff pharmacist
    -float pharmacist

    Not sure if that’s too cluttered/if I need to indicate the acquisition under both companies? Everyone in the industry knows of buyout, but I also want to indicate that I was part of the acquisition vs. just moving on from one company to the other.

    1. Biff*

      I might do it this way:

      CVS/Health (2012 – Present)
      (Previously Target Pharmacies before acquisition in 2015)

    2. CAA*

      If you became a pharmacy manager as a direct result of the acquisition and shortly afterwards, and if the duties of the pharmacy manager are substantially different than staff pharmacist, then I’d separate them. In that case, there’s no need to list the staff pharmacist position under CVS, just the manager. I have a similar situation on my resume, and that’s what I do. I put “(acquired company xxx in month/year)” under the newer company’s name, but I don’t have a similar note on the older company. I was asked about it only once, and the interviewer quickly understood that I didn’t actually leave older company.

      If you’re cramped for space, or if you were a staff pharmacist for most of your tenure at both companies and had the same duties, then I think combining them into a single listing as Biff suggests is better.

  157. wantthosecoins*

    Last year, in tandem with a stellar performance review, I asked for a raise. I was denied — my company doesn’t give them out very often, and I was told it had nothing to do with my performance. I was also told we could revisit it in a year, which is now.

    HOWEVER, in the interim, another department has undergone significant turmoil. What was once a financial leader in the company is now struggling, and it may not make it through the next couple years.

    My department, however, is excelling. I’ve been accruing more duties and have always had excellent reviews of my work

    I’m in a tough spot: I haven’t gotten a raise in 2 years. I’m underpaid for my market. Should I bring this up again, knowing they’re likely to say no? Will it gall them that I brought it up during such a financially stressful time?

    1. Gandalf the Nude*

      It’s been a year. I think that’s objectively an acceptable length of time to ask again.

  158. imakethings*

    Not a real question, but just a quick note about my current job situation. I’m job hunting and interviewed at a job that I believe would be a really amazing fit . I’m trying to transition into a pretty competitive role and this place is looking for juniors to mentor and train. Plus, there is schedule flexibility with set work from home days. The interview went very well from my point of view and I think I really connected with the team. They expected a quick turnaround and I received an update a week after the interview stating they were in HR wait and I should hear back shortly. I just found out the hiring manager’s wife just had their first child and he is presumably out of the office helping out at home, so I’m now laying in wait. Frustrating, but understandable. I wanna know! But dang it if he isn’t a good guy to stay at home and help… making me want him as my boss/mentor even more

    *grumble grumble*

    1. imakethings*

      Also, huge thank you to AAM and Alison for all the amazing advice that surely helped me land and then prepare for that interview. I would not have gotten there without this website’s invaluable advice.

    2. imakethings*

      The point of this is to reaffirm Allison’s reminders that things happen in the hiring process that are outside of our control and not indicative of the interviewee’s candidacy! I only found out the hiring manager is out of the office because of some anxious internet sleuthing, and would have otherwise pestered him and felt left hanging. While it’s so difficult, we must be patient.

  159. RunningOutofIdeas*

    Looking for some advice on how to deal with two employees that sometimes cross boundaries on behaviors. Not only am I a new manager, but I’m a woman who looks relatively young for their age, so I think this has something to do with how these two are communicating with me. Both employees have been employed by our company for sometime and both are older than me. On separate occasions both have questioned in front of other team members decisions that I’ve made by saying things, like, “That’s not how you do it,” and “You don’t know this stuff.” Which is very annoying has I’ve worked in this field for over 10 years and know my stuff or wouldn’t have been given the job. I feel on the defensive with these two whenever I have to direct them to do things. I want to stop feeling the need to defend my decisions. I feel like sometimes my authority on things are continuously being questioned and I’m ready to give up and start looking for another job.

    1. Biff*

      I would pull them into separate private conferences. But don’t just lay down the law, set up a way for them to funnel concerns to you. Like this:

      “Peter, you said today in our SCRUM meeting that how I asked you to make teapot handle molds isn’t how we do it. I understand you have some concerns, but I need you to not say that in public as it might appear as you are undermining our team. What I’d like for you to do is take any concerns up in private. I’m not opposed to changing course if you have a really compelling concern, but they need to be brought to my attention properly. Please do balah blah blah in the future. I may not always agree with you but I value your input.”

    2. Grey*

      Immediately respond with “that’s not your call to make” or something similar and remind them who’s in charge. They’re the ones who should be worried about job searching, not you.

    3. Jessesgirl72*

      It would make more sense to “give up” and fire them. :P

      I mean, obviously not immediately and without warning, etc. But you are well within your rights to have private conversations with them (separately) where you point out that they are questioning and belittling your authority and knowledge, and in front of others, and that this has to stop. If they want more of an explanation or have concrete concerns, they can respectfully raise them with you, but that what they’ve been doing will no longer be tolerated. And that in some cases, being the manager, you might have information that they aren’t privy to, so that unless they can convince you of a problem they are trying to avoid, they need to follow the directives you give to them. And then point it out again when it happens again, and if it doesn’t stop after a couple of those conversations about the specific things you want changed, start the process of PIP or whatever is necessary to get fire them.

      Name the behavior, and tell them it has to stop.

    4. mreasy*

      I’m sorry that you’re dealing with this. I’m a woman in a position of authority in a progressive industry, but sexist & conservative values die hard, even there. Please don’t let this drive you from a job you excel in and enjoy! I hope you’ll name the behavior and correct it, as suggested below. They’re trying to assert power over a new manager, and a young woman at that (!), and if you call them out privately so you let them know that this won’t be tolerated, the hope is that this will deflate their attempts to assert – because it has backfired. This happens to me regularly (I also have a classic “California girl” speaking voice, despite professionally vocabulary), and it’s all about retraining people. Or, as suggested by another commenter – kicking them to the curb if they won’t shape up. This is horribly common and I hope you can help change it in your workplace!

  160. Cassandra*

    I wanted to share a good outcome from the bullying post earlier in the week — it would probably have been a derailment in the comments there, but should I hope be okay here.

    As an early teenager, I went through a period of suicidal depression when taken on a six-month trip out of the country due to a parent’s grant research. I wrote at length to classmates at home, but as an unpopular and often bullied child, I got nearly no responses…

    … save for one person who kindly took the time to send me school news and gossip. Just an ordinary chatty letter, but it kept me alive until I could go home and get stable.

    The bullying post spurred me to search for her online. I found her and she’s doing great, which I was so happy to see! And she’s a 90-minute drive down the road, which is remarkable because we’re about a quarter of the country away from where we both grew up.

    Karma isn’t just negative.

    2. Emily*

      I’m glad that someone was able to help you in your time of need, and that she’s doing well now!

  161. Freelance Oversharer*

    Regular commenter going anon for this…

    In my line of work I am a mandatory reporter, and I tend to work with multiple children from the same families. We along with my department supervisors and supervisors from other departments recently sat down with a representative from CPS to talk about a family that we’ve had some concerns about for a while, but only recently have some concrete evidence to build a case. Most of the concerns were neglect-based, but the child that I work with most closely has shown signs of physical abuse. For some reason, I thought that the rep was not taking my concerns seriously, and I blurted out that I was a victim of physical abuse as a child (true) and that I was severely concerned about this child’s well-being, due to seeing behaviors in him that I saw in myself (shame, secrecy, hiding bruises, frequent cancellations of appointments or absences, etc.).

    Now I’m not really sure if I need to save face due to sharing some intensely personal stuff in the midst of several higher-ups. I am working on realizing that my being a victim as a child/teen is not something to be ashamed about, but I still am afraid that I really crossed some professional norms. Any advice on how I could bring this up with my boss, or if I should just let it go? My idea of a script was, “Hey [boss], I realized that I may have violated some boundaries in our meeting about [family] the other day. I don’t know what came over me, but it came from a place of concern about [children] and their well-being.”

    1. Reba*

      I don’t think you need to frame it apologetically off the bat: “I’d like your feedback about our meeting the other day. As you know, I don’t typically talk about my personal history here, but I think because of my concern with the rep [whatever they did/said], I brought it up to underscore the seriousness of what I’ve seen. I actually surprised myself a bit. Was that appropriate?”
      And see what she says.
      FWIW you sound like a great employee and compassionate person. Good luck with the conversation!

      1. Freelance Oversharer*

        You are so kind. I like your wording better than mine! I have been agonizing over this for a week so I really appreciate your help. :)

        1. Electric Hedgehog*

          In my experience, when sharing my own history of abuse, I have found that a huge percentage of those who I talk to have experienced similar abuse and are willing to share their stories with me. I estimate that the actual percentage of abuse survivors is much higher.

          Point is, I suspect that there’s a good chance that they have their own stories and aren’t judging you for sharing yours, but are impressed with your willingness to share something so deeply personal and hard to discuss.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      It’s entirely possible they actually just felt empathy for you. Sharing something that personal can make you feel very, very vulnerable.

  162. ern*

    So it’s my last day in my crazy toxic job. After 6 long months of constant stress, fielding angry clients who have been oversold by our unmanaged salesmen, and having our benefits cut, workloads increased because of layoffs, and a completely unsustainable workload, I left without another job lined up. I have enough to survive for a few months and I’ve got a coding class lined up to take which will hopefully be productive for my job hunt. I also have a few contacts from other colleagues who have left the org for the same reasons so I’m not overly worried. Obviously, it’s a risky choice but I have absolutely no regrets given just how miserable I’ve been (working 12-14 hour days for no money, expected to be constantly oncall and my company refuses to fire clients meaning that the same nasty clients come back each year because we do whatever they want and don’t “fire” them when they handle frustration by cursing us out :) ). this is more of a rant than anything else. but anyone who has advice for recovering from a toxic job and for interviewing when I’m unemployed, that’d be awesome!

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Search AAM for workplace ptsd and you’ll find some good advice. It sounds like this is an essential move for your health and sanity – enjoy the coding class!

  163. FD*

    First experience hiring people, and our job post is getting some responses, which is exciting. And not guaranteed, because we have a market with many more jobs than applicants.

    That said, it’s so odd to me that when one goes out of the way to put in the posting “Applications without a cover letter will be disqualified”, you still get 85% of respondents that don’t include a cover letter.

  164. Detective Rosa Diaz*

    I had an amazing interview with this start up on Tuesday – it was supposed to be one hour, it was 3, they introduced me to everyone there and were like “you might even hear from us TONIGHT.”

    It was like, whoa.

    Last couple minutes someone dropped by the office and was singing (IDK startups are weird) and the CEO was like you can stay if you want but 1. I had to PEE and 2. Might’ve gotten a ticket so I was like, I gotta go and left.

    NOW I have heard NOTHING. I sent a thank you email and nothing.

    Just so weird. I don’t really expect to hear anything but I’m more just frustrated. Anyone had similar experiences and WHY do companies do this?

    2. ..Kat..*

      Although it is too late now, I recommend honesty in future interactions like this. “I would love to stay, but I need to visit the ladies’ room and I am worried about my parking running out.”

  165. Incognito*

    No change at my current job, just more of the same…and more…and more. It seemed to settle for a couple weeks, but it seems like new things are constantly coming to light. :( There has been zero progress on discussed improvements. All talk, no walk. Things that are vital to my work are still being back-burnered.

    I am able to lull myself into a sense of okayness as long as I don’t come across an old email or something doesn’t otherwise happen beyond being able to just bury my head in work, but then something inevitably comes up, and I go back to quietly spitting nails.

    The good news is I have a phone screen set up for next week for a job that really excites me and sounds right up my alley. I have spoken extensively with the recruiter, but next week will be my first contact with the company and the hiring manager.

  166. Matilda Jefferies (formerly JMegan)*

    Thoughts on emailing for more information before applying for a job? In this case, I’d want to ask about a salary range and travel requirements, both of which would be dealbreakers for me if they were out of my range. I have often seen advice here to not contact the organization before applying, because they have already given out all the information they want applicants to have ahead of time.

    But in a case like this, where I have two very specific questions that would impact whether or not I put several hours of my time into applying for a position, would it be reasonable to contact their info@ address (which is given in the ad) and ask?

    3. Collie*

      I wouldn’t strictly advise against it, but unless you’re really short on PTO for the purposes of interviews or there’s some other reason going for an interview would be really inconvenient, I’d wait until after applying and at the interview to ask these questions. If nothing else, you get interview practice out of it. My guess is, especially for pay, they didn’t include it on the description for a reason (we all know the reason *side eye at the org*) so it will probably be under what you’re looking for anyway. However, on the off chance it’s not and it works out, I’d worry about asking for more info as coming off as presumptuous. (And, not that it should, but it could.)

  167. Dorcas*

    I think our department head is trying to get my supervisor to quit. One tactic he uses is to ask me to write a sales report for him, a board meeting, etc. without showing it to my supervisor. Today when he did this I went and told my supervisor (who is extremely paranoid and tends to blame and indirectly punish me when the department head comes directly to me or I have to do things “in secret”) that I had been asked to work on a report and also asked not to share it with him or anyone else. I think this is going to smooth my way in my daily work interactions and make my supervisor less hostile toward me, but I don’t like putting myself in between my supervisor and the department head or ratcheting up tension in that area. Any advice on how to handle this?

    1. Reba*

      That sounds tough! Is there a way you could gently push back with the higher up? “It will be difficult/I would be uncomfortable keeping this a secret from Supervisor. Can you tell me what the purpose of that is?”

  168. KM*

    Is there anyone else on here who graduated during the recession and still struggling career wise because of it? I wasn’t able to find a job until 2 years after graduation although I had several internships in my field (marketing) during that time to continue working on my skill set. Even though another 5 years have passed and I have gained work experience in said field, now that I am interviewing again, people seem to keep harping on the fact I didn’t have a FT job after graduation although it wasn’t by choice and I feel like I am being judged harshly for it.

    Any recommendations on combating this or how to spin it?

    1. Biff*

      I didn’t graduate directly into the recession, but I did get hit with it soon after and stayed in a bad job for 4 years because of it, so what I have to say may not be perfectly on point.

      1. Someone who is chewing on you for not having a full-time job 5 years ago is being an ass…
      2. … unless they are really not harping, but trying to understand a string of part-time work. If you do only have a string of part-time positions or contract positions, you may need to update your resume to, one, not indicate whether or not a position was part time. With the exception of a very part time job of less than 15 hours a week, you don’t owe someone that info. Also, if it was a contract position, to say that. Like this:

      Beatrude Teapots (May 2012 to August 2012)
      Contracted for Summer Trade Show Season

      3. If you were volunteering or focusing on a hobby intensely while looking for full time work, and that experience is relevant, make sure it’s included in the interview. “While I was looking for a full-time, permanent position, I volunteered at my local museum to make sure I was gaining skills for future positions.”

    2. katamia*

      Yep. I graduated in 2007 and have not recovered. The recession isn’t the only reason I’m not doing well, obviously, but it definitely hurt me–I wasn’t equipped to deal with it (but then how many brand-new college grads were?), and almost all of my jobs have been part time because I’ve been able to find very little that was full time. When I’m applying for jobs, I apply for a lot of places that want more experience than I have and sometimes get called back, but I don’t get those jobs. I’ve mostly given up, honestly. I’m looking into starting my own business for what I’ve been doing as freelance (not 100% sure I’m going to do it, but I don’t see many other options for the near future) and am hoping that I can get into grad school despite my unimpressive resume.

      I don’t have a whole lot of suggestions on how to spin it, obviously, but I definitely agree with Biff that you should stop saying on your resume that most of your jobs were part time. I don’t say it on mine, and I’ve never had an interview where I was criticized for only having part-time work. If they asked me directly (which they never did) I would have said they were part time, but other than that, don’t volunteer that kind of information in most situations.

  169. JuniperJones*

    For anyone who has left a job on difficult terms or been railroaded out as a scapegoat for something you can prove you didn’t do – how long did you keep the proof that would clear your name?

    I doubt my company would ever go legal (they know they wouldn’t win) but nevertheless I have boxes of emails etc. proving I had raised issues around governance and practice. Ultimately I resigned voluntarily after being harassed by the Board and my life at work made exceptionally difficult. I want to move on and away from any memory of the nightmare role, but have no clue whether the shred the proof I wasn’t involved or not…

    4. Turtlewings*

      Safety deposit box at a bank? Out of sight, out of mind, very secure, and not very expensive — Google’s giving it as $15-25 a year.

    5. ..Kat..*

      Although it is too late now, I recommend honesty in future interactions like this. “I would love to stay, but I need to visit the ladies’ room and I am worried about my parking running out.”

      1. ..Kat..*

        Okay, this comment was meant for an above question. Anyway, I recommend keeping this documentation for a long time. Like decades. I had a problem where I only kept the documentation for ten years. Guess what I needed as soon as I got rid of it?

        I recommend keeping this documentation in both digital form and printed form.

  170. whichsister*

    This job is chipping away at my soul. I have had a few promising interviews, including one this morning, but no offers.

    This week has been especially trying,

    Just to sum up some previous issues
    My boss said I could roll over my remaining PTO day last year, than changed him mind.

    I need to burn PTO when I am sick or out, BUT I am still expected to be on call and was reprimanded for not answering phone when I was home sick. This was after I asked for PTO hours back from a previous day when I was on Dr ordered bed rest but spent two hours on the phone and computer troubleshooting stuff in which I was not the only person who could do it. Boss said he would look into it, never got back to me. (by the way Boss is one of 3 onsite owners of company. Basically he can do or authorize whatever he wants. He just doesn’t want to.)

    My performance review was 4 months late, not only was there no raise, but he put me on a 90 day performance plan.

    One day this week, my boss was the last one to leave the office but forgot to check the doors before he set the alarms. I was called (and texted) with the logic being since I used one of the doors, I needed to go back to the office and make sure the doors were locked. I AM NOT KIDDING YOU. My solution to this in the future is start drinking as soon as I get home that way I can’t drive And by the way the door was locked.

    Then today, I asked our accounts payable person if we were getting mileage checks today (they are done last full week of month and all the owners are gone next week.) She looked at me funny and said they were done but she didn’t get one for me. Yeah, I sent my stuff to my boss 7 days ago and he did not submit it . He is not back in the office till late next week. And even if he digitally sent the approval today, the person who signs the checks will probably not be in today and also won’t be back till next week.

    So glad I rebelled, knowing my boss wasn’t here today, and am wearing jeans. (I am not allowed to wear jeans. Yet everyone else in the office, including him, does. In fact, he ONLY wears jeans to work.) The thing is, when I give notice, i KNOW KNOW KNOW they will call me into the conference room and beg me to stay (which is what they do every time a salary person quits. they will ante up money, days off, special schedules, the works.)

    1. CatCat*

      “The thing is, when I give notice, i KNOW KNOW KNOW they will call me into the conference room and beg me to stay”

      It’s going to be sooooooo satisfying to turn them down. “No thank you. My decision is final.” Rinse. Repeat.

    2. LCL*

      Stop answering your phone for him after hours. What does he want you to ‘improve’ on your performance plan?

    3. Analysis Paralysis*

      Wow… just wow. On top of all the other crap, he made *YOU* go back to the office to check the doors?? Nope nope nope. This guy has serious boundary issues. Whichsister, time to salute and exit stage left!

      Sounds like you’re already job searching. I hope you find something soon. When you give notice & they beg beg beg you to stay, stick to your guns. Stay professional, don’t let your frustrations slip out (your boss sounds like enough of a jackwagon that he’d likely see any negative feedback from you as retroactive justification for how he treated you in the past). Personally I wouldn’t engage with him — don’t provide reasons for leaving beyond “I received an offer I just couldn’t refuse!”, and don’t provide ANY details about new job — inevitably he will ask what company, role, salary etc. Respond: “Since I only have xx days/weeks left, let’s focus on my transition plan. I’ve started a document that includes….”. Every time he brings NewJob up, reply as if he asked you for a status update on your transition plan, even if it seems conversationally awkward to reply that way — you don’t need him making drama for you at NewJob.

      In the mean time, slap some teflon on your back and let this guy slide right off. Do your job, do it well, but nothing more. Any other after-hours requests need to be met with radio silence (don’t answer your phone!). Remain unfailingly professional — it will drive him nuts that he can’t violate your boundaries. Good luck!!

      ~~~internet good vibes being sent your way~~~

  171. Forever Anon*

    I work in a satellite office at my company and I’m the only permanent staff member. Consultants flow in and out of the city and I assist them when they’re in office (as well as remotely as needed). My boss (who works in the main office) several states away has gotten upset the last few times I’ve either taken a sick day or used my vacation days. I’m getting the sense from our phone and email conversations that she doesn’t like the workflow disruption. I can’t predict when I’m going to be too sick to come in, but I give as much notice as I can when I plan to use vacation time and schedule it around an upper level manager’s schedule (whom I assist during his frequent visits). I’m not sure what else to do on my end and was hoping a manager may be able to weigh in.

  172. afiendishthingy*

    I made it through my first week back to work after taking a month of medical leave for anxiety and depression. It was a tough week. It’s time to start working on my exit strategy, while still putting self-care first and (secondarily) performing at work to the best of my current ability.

    Phew.

  173. Turtlewings*

    Guysss, I’m supposed to move up into my immediate supervisor’s (reorganized) role when she retires this summer. And this morning, the manager over both of us took me aside and told me to fight for more money because I’m being taken advantage of. (I’d been told there was no money for a raise.) I’ve never negotiated salary or asked for a raise or anything like this, but I’m trying to marshall my arguments and prepare to talk to the director next week. [breaks out in a nervous sweat]

  174. Peacock*

    We have a 2 day event every June. People sign up to be vendors/dealers. We stress that it is a 2 day event and you need to be here both days. We got everything set and ready to go early, and I just got an email from a dealer saying he doesn’t want to participate on Saturday (the opening day!) due to religious beliefs. He did not mention that last year and he did not mention it in February when we were taking registration for this year.

    Is there a tactful way to say no, you have to be here while still respecting his beliefs? If he doesn’t come on Saturday, it really will be his loss, as Saturday is the busiest day, with the heaviest visitation.

    1. Leatherwings*

      Because it’s a religious thing, I think that you probably need to make some sort of accommodation for him. It’s just the right thing to do. He absolutely should’ve mentioned that when signing up, but it’s too late for that discussion at this point.

    2. SophieChotek*

      Plus it sounds like it will hurt him/his company more than anyone else? I suppose you could frame it that way and ask if he has someone he could hire (even for 1 day?) to watch his booth. So he could still follow his religious observations. (Did he come both days last year?)

      1. Peacock*

        He did participate both days last year, although he was 2 hours late on Saturday. I have replied to him asking if he could have someone attend his booth Saturday and also offering a full refund if he cannot participate.

    3. Parenthetically*

      The fact that he didn’t mention it last year isn’t relevant — people change religions and degrees of participation in their religious practices all the time. The fact that he didn’t mention it when signing up is potentially an issue, but I assume he’s already paid for the spot, so other than the fact that he’s going to lose money by not being on the busiest day, what are you going to stand to lose?

      I don’t frankly think there’s any way, tactful or not, to say, “You have to come in violation of your religious beliefs” while also respecting his religious beliefs.

      1. Peacock*

        The hard part for us is that we stress in the contract that you need participate both days or you do not get invited back. We absolutely do not want him to violate his religious beliefs. I have emailed him to ask if he can someone else attend his booth on Saturday and if not, we are offering a full refund of his rental fee ($100).

        We really won’t lose anything. I have a couple of people on a waiting list that want to come, but I really hope we can work something out with this dealer. He has great, quality items at reasonable prices and he is a very friendly and nice person. I don’t get to make the final decision, thought, so I don’t know what will happen.

        1. Parenthetically*

          Yeah, I think that’s about the only thing you can do! I almost suggested offering to refund the fee if he can’t find someone to work the booth for him. (I did just ask the internet, though, and apparently there are some observant Jews who believe that if a Jewish person cannot do the work on the Sabbath, it is wrong to ask a Gentile to do the work for him. Not that I know for sure that this person is Jewish, but just that there may be an issue even with asking someone to work on his behalf. )

          1. Ann O.*

            Once Shabbat starts, an observant Jew cannot make a direct request of a non-Jewish person to do prohibited work. But they can make arrangements prior to the start of Shabbos, and this is in fact, very common. It is possible there are exceptions among the ultra-Orthodox who like to make their lives harder than necessary, but I think it is unlikely that this person would be ultra-Orthodox given the provided information.

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Is there a representative from his company that could come in his place on Saturday?

  175. New Window*

    Fun times at work this week.

    My boss has been in the workforce and using computers for many years. This week, I showed him how to:
    1. Calculate a percentage
    2. Save a password in his browser
    3. Create and use bookmarks in said browser.

    I am capable of no further comment.

      1. New Window*

        Oh, I’m metaphorically eating popcorn. More productive than (again metaphorically) throwing it against the wall. 8-)

      1. New Window*

        I do try to keep this in mind! I will give him passes on a lot of things. Other times, it gets disrupting to have to stop my work to do this kind of not-even-tech support. At least I have clear example of what my baseline proficiency should exceed thirty or forty years from now.

      2. Theo*

        There are plenty of folks who grew up without technology who are able to work easily with it! My grandparents, for instance; they both grew up before WWII and yet they somehow manage to use their problem-solving abilities on their technology. Computers didn’t really exist for my parents either, and both of them do just fine. While learning curves can be steep, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to expect that someone who uses computers on a daily basis for work be able to google “how do I calculate a percentage?”

        I suspect the problem here is actually “learned helplessness” rather than “didn’t grow up with tech”.

    3. Dang*

      The other day I introduced a coworker to the bookmarks bar on Chrome. Her mind was BLOWN. It was adorable!

    4. CAA*

      Don’t worry, there’s a high probability that you’ll get to show him all these things again, so more fun times ahead. :-)

    5. Detective Amy Santiago*

      My boss is less than a decade older than me and just today needed to ask me how to use the Track Changes feature in Word.

    6. JustaTech*

      About 10 years ago I taught my FIL how to use ctrl-c and ctrl-v to copy and paste. He had no idea.
      I learned those from my mom, about 10 years before that.

      Though I did recently learn the shortcut to fill a whole bunch of Excel cells with the same text (highlight and ctrl-d) and was *thrilled*.

  176. Wren*

    Well, once again I didn’t get a job I applied for at my current gig. I need to move on, but losing cheap health insurance and 6 weeks of PTO is going to suck. And I have one of those jobs that doesn’t really exist at other employers, so I don’t even know what to search for. I’m so depressed over this. I really just want to go home and eat ice cream and cry. Again.

    1. Collie*

      I’m not sure I understand; are you planning on quitting without something lined up? You never know what’s out there. Go eat your ice cream, cry a bit (but don’t make your ice cream salty!), then take some deep breaths. Then go to your mirror and, in the wise, wise words of Cool Runnings repeat: “I see pride, I see power, I see a bad-ass mother who don’t take no crap off of nobody.”

      You’ve got this.

      2. Wren*

        Thank you. The urge to just walk out is strong, but I am too much of a coward to ever do that.

    2. imakethings*

      Job hunting is the woooooooooooooooooorst. It is so demoralizing. You can do it!

      Although, 6 week PTO wiggity whaaat?

  177. Oh Well*

    Why would someone say they’ll get a job offer to you by tonight then ignore you for 3 weeks? Has this ever happened to anyone else?

    1. Sugar of lead*

      It literally just happened to me. They said they’d get back to me by the end of the day, and they finally called about a month later, maybe more. I think it points to disorganization and lack of respect for their job candidates. Don’t get your hopes up and try to move on is my advice.

      1. Oh Well*

        Yeah, I’ve quit hoping, and now I’m just disappointed. I’m living with my partner in a small city while he finishes school, so the job market is blah.

        Are you going to take the job, or did you decide they weren’t worth it because of it?

        1. Sugar of lead*

          Most def take the job. They have a contract to repair teapots instead of just handling and transporting them, and usually you need a very hard-to-get municipal job for that. That’s worth putting up with flaky management.

          1. Oh Well*

            Alright, that makes me feel better! Part of me wonders if it’s worth risking flaky management, but it’s an opportunity for me, too. Assuming the job offer ever actually arrives!

    2. Colette*

      – someone who needs to sign off on the formal offer left early/ is out of the office
      – there are discussions about a reorg happening
      – someone internal expressed interest and there is a good reason to consider them
      – the hiring manager just resigned
      – They had one more person to interview and she blew them away
      – a crisis happened and it was all hands on deck

  178. Elizabeth*

    I’m an intern at a small non-profit. I was told to text my supervisor (the executive director) and let her know if I’d be arriving late. A few weeks ago, we had a massive storm in the area and my roommate asked if I would drive her to work so she wouldn’t have to bike in the rain. There was also a tornado warning.

    I agreed and sent a text to my boss saying basically that: “I’m going to be late, my roommate needs a ride to work.” I didn’t get a response, but that is not unusual.

    When my supervisor got to work later that day, she came into my office and told me that what I had done was super unprofessional (telling her why I was going to be late?) and that doing that would get me into trouble at another organization (but not this one!) (except she was obviously upset with me).

    Was I unprofessional? She can be kind of unreasonable and she framed it in a “I’m just trying to help you” way, but I’m kind of confused.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Well, the reason you gave is one that a lot of bosses would take issue with because it sounds like you’re prioritizing your roommate’s job (and her desire not to find another way to work) over your own job. It could be taken as a little cavalier.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      If your boss is a stickler for timeliness, then I bet she thinks taking your roommate to work isn’t a good enough reason to make yourself late.

      Next time, I’d reserve being late for truly unavoidable situations (like your own car breaking down), or important appointments on your end. At least, if you decide to be late for some less pressing reason, invent a more-pressing reason for your boss.

      (Not saying your boss is right to be pissy — if you are an otherwise stellar employee, I think she’s being unreasonable. But if your work product is just okay, or if you haven’t been working there long enough to have built up a bank of goodwill with your boss, I can see why she’s reading this as you not understanding the importance of being at work on time.)

    3. misspiggy*

      You need to text your boss if you’re unavoidably going to be late through no fault of your own. Otherwise, you need to be on time. To use the storm example, if you had got outside to go to work at your normal time, found a tree had fallen on your car, and you then had to find a bus, that would have been OK.

      Driving your friend to work was optional. You could have just not done it, or you could have done it early, so that you weren’t late to work. You put your work second to other priorities. That’s the unprofessional bit.

    4. CAA*

      I think what she was trying to say is that your roommate needing a ride to work is not really a good excuse for you to be late. When she told you to text her if you would be late, it was for unavoidable things like “my car broke down” or “there’s a major accident on the freeway and I’ll be stuck in traffic for a while” or “I’m too sick to come in to work today”.

      What came across as unprofessional is that you made a choice to give your roommate a ride to her work instead of fulfilling the obligation you have to your employer, and then you told your employer that you considered your roommate’s job to be a higher priority than your own. I know that’s not what you meant at the time, but that’s how it looks from the manager’s side of the desk. Next time your roommate needs a ride, leave early enough that you can drop her off and still get to your job on time.

    5. LBK*

      I’ve pondered this a little and I actually think the crux of it is because it was for your roommate, which is someone that most people don’t see as an obligatory receiver of favors. I’m trying to picture how I’d react if it had been your spouse instead, and I think most managers wouldn’t have taken as much umbrage to that, because there’s a societal understanding that you help your spouse when they need it, and that falls under the “life stuff” that sometimes takes precedence over work. By contrast, choosing to help your feels like something you could’ve said no to more easily, and that work should’ve been prioritized.

      Although even so, it would still be a little terse to just state it (I’ll be late because I’m driving my SO to work) vs asking (Can I come in a little late today? Need to drive my SO into work because of the storm).

      2. fposte*

        Even an SO, honestly, would be an eyebrow raiser for me from an intern; I would probably have had a similar conversation over it.

        1. LBK*

          Good point – I was starting from the mentality that this is someone whose schedule allows for some flexibility and who has a strong relationship with their manager, but those may not be givens with an intern (our co-ops more or less get treated as regular employees, but I know there’s more of a mentoring dynamic with interns that implores them to always exhibit exemplary behavior).

    6. NCIS Crazy Town*

      I think your supervisor had a problem with the reason for your lateness. In my first month of work, I got a flat tire and was two-three hours late to work. I texted my boss and arrived full of apologies but she said it was no big deal, thanked me for letting her know, and to stay late to make up the hours (since I didn’t have any leave yet). That’s understandable because it’s unavoidable that I got a flat halfway to work.

      Giving a ride to a roommate is easily avoidable because why couldn’t she take public transportation, or a taxi, or an Uber? There are ways around it. If you had to take her to the hospital for a medical emergency, that’s an acceptable excuse. But to give her a lift for foul weather? Not as acceptable.

    7. Grabapple McGee*

      And in the future avoid this entirely by texting, “I’m going to be late due to a personal matter.”

      You don’t owe your boss an explanation past that. Really.

    8. Student*

      The proper way to handle the social/work dilemma, if you wanted to give your room mate a ride in bad weather, would be to leave extra early so you can drop your room mate off and then get to work on time yourself.

      If the room mate asked when it was too late to do that, you say, “Sorry, I can’t, I’d be late to work!” and maybe drop her off somewhere easier (nearby bus stop? subway station? part-way?) that’s on your normal way to work to be helpful without impacting your job. Figuring out a way to get to a job when the weather is bad is a pretty normal thing. Have you thought longer-term here? Are you going to be giving your room mate rides whenever it snows? Every time it rains? When it is windy or too cold or too hot? Room mate has to figure that out.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Good point. The boss may be wondering, “So if the roommate has a doctor’s appointment, is Elizabeth going to bail out of work to get her there?”

  179. Thomas E*

    I’m currently suspended from work with pay. I’ve got an investigation hearing on Monday. The problem relates to a medical problem I’ve got (depression). Basically I lost it with a colleague ( a verbal argument without threats or violence but with swearing and a lot of anger). I’ve been going to a doctor for some time about the problem, tried therapy, been put on a different antidepressant since the incident.

    The thing is… I’m kind of messed up. I can’t say this won’t happen again, and I feel very low about things. Plus, because I’ve had to change pills I’m effectively off the pills until the new lot kicks in… So I feel worse than ever.

    Honestly, I just want to leave the job without bothering to go through the procedural hassle but it’s based on emotions I can’t trust at the moment.

    2. Reba*

      I know that getting out of a low point of depression can be a long hard road. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this and I hope the new drugs help.

      Maybe try going into the hearing and future meetings with an open mind. You can be honest with your workplace to a degree (I hope) without being totally negative about yourself!

      What other options besides just ghosting could work for you? FMLA? Leaving with a severance or extension of insurance benefits? Good luck.

    3. Shamy*

      I’m so sorry you are going through this. A lot of people don’t realize that depression can manifest in a myriad of ways, not just sadness, but anger and irritability are so common. And I feel you on the adjustment phase of new meds. I think if you can just sort of take a break and focus on yourself, that would be good. Do you think going to the hearing will exacerbate your current state? Or would it be more beneficial to do as you are saying and leave? If the hearing won’t exacerbate things, then maybe going would be good until you are a bit more stable and can trust yourself to make a more confident decision. I wish I could offer better suggestions, but I am rooting for you.

      1. Thomas E*

        Hi all, thanks for the support…

        Reba: Money wise I’m fine. I’ve a lot of money saved up because, ironically, part of the anxiety that comes with the depression has made me want to have a lot of security. I’ve also been sending out CV’s for the last week and got three interviews….

        I’m probably going to go to the interview. I don’t have that much to lose. They’ve referred me to occupational health and there might be things they can do for me.

  180. Dazed and Confused*

    I need advice on how to deal with a coworker. I work at a nonprofit which does events for the local community. Jasmine was our children’s event coordinator but is rather terrible at her job. We’ve gotten many complaints about her being in appropriate with children (hugging when she shouldn’t), her cleanliness, and the staleness and ineffectiveness of her events. However due to many issues she is unfireable and will not be leaving anytime soon. My colleague, Pocahontas was an adult events coordinator but has since taken over the children events position while trying to manage Jasmine. Since we cannot fire Jasmine we do not have the money to hire a replacement for her and keep her hired.

    I am an adult event coordinator on the same level as Pocahontas except I’m PT and she’s FT. However I have many years experience with children’s events and she does not. She is not my supervisor. Pocahontas’s father Powhatan is the director of the nonprofit. Summer is our busiest time of the year of our children’s events since children are out of school. . Pocahontas has decided to not conduct any children’s events in May in preparation for the summer events. However, the public complained and so Powhatan told Pocahontas she had to do at least two events in May. She asked me to do one event during my regularly scheduled hours and to do the publications necessary for it. I did, gave her a sample, asked if she wanted anything changed, she said no and she raved about how much she liked my work. I was told later that same day by another coworker that Pocahontas had asked her to redo my publication because it was ugly and horrible. Had Pocahontas told me when I asked her about it that she didn’t like it I wouldn’t have cared, but she lied right to my face and involved another coworker who is already buried in work.
    The excuse she gave my coworker is she didn’t want to hurt my feelings by telling me she didn’t like my work. I’m a laid back person and am comfortable taking constructive criticism so I don’t think the problem would have been my reaction but rather that Pocahontas is not comfortable with direct conflict.

    I noticed we did not have a particularly popular summer children’s event that many similar organizations usually do this summer and I offered to fit it into my already packed schedule along with a few additional low cost ones that I thought would be fun. I emailed Pocahontas a proposal and she again seemed thrilled with it. However, later that day she sent me a long email about how I should put the dates on the calendar yet and she needed to get approval from Powhatan. However, I already spoke to Powhatan and got his OK so that was a lie. The phrasing of the email sounded like a supervisor talking to an employee they’re exasperated with, not a colleague talking to another colleague whose input they respect. She also repeatedly uses phrases like “you’ll be my backup at these events” like I’m her assistant. I had to go through the same educational process she did to become qualified for the particular niche position and I don’t appreciate being treated like a paraprofessional. I’m also not Jasmine nor am I anything like Jasmine and I don’t appreciate being treated as incompetent. I’m good at my job and love it. My coworker suggested ignoring Pocahontas entirely and going right to Powhatan to get approval for events. However, I don’t want to step on toes and I like to settle issues one on one as much as possible. How can deal with Pocahontas in the future?

    1. Amtelope*

      You’re not a children’s event coordinator, right? My suggestion would be to stop volunteering to do children’s events, and only help if Pocahontas directly asks you to. It makes sense to me that she’d say you’re her backup at children’s events, because the children’s events are her responsibility, not yours. Going around her to get approval from Powhatan to do a children’s event was pretty uncool, in my book — whether to ask him for approval for the event you suggested should have been her call.

      Basically, I think backing off as much as possible from the children’s programming will make your life easier and make Pocahontas less stressed that you’re trying to use your experience with children’s events to take over her job. If she asks you for help, help her if you have time, and try not to emotionally invest in whether she makes changes to your work. Otherwise, work on adult events and let her deal with Jasmine and the children’s programming on her own.

    2. fposte*

      By finding a new place to work. This is a place where an incompetent employee sucks away money and the org is more interested in retaining her than in serving their mission, and where a daughter (presuming that was a true parallel) is reporting to her dad. This is Bad Idea Org.

      I wouldn’t worry about whether Pocahontas gave you feedback to your face in the meantime–though I’d side-eye the co-worker who so kindly passed on that your work was “ugly and horrible”–because it’s not necessarily her job to give you feedback, and I wouldn’t get indignant about being “lied to” just because somebody was bad at feedback. I would let go of the resentment about the way you feel you should be addressed vs. the way she addresses you. However, if you weren’t told by your boss you need to run scheduling past his daughter, then that could be changeable; I’d at least allude to the change (“I was realizing it might be easier to send this directly to you–let me know if you think I should do it differently”) so it doesn’t look like a stealthy end-run around your colleague.

      But mostly it sounds like there are bad patterns there and they’re not bringing out the best in you. I’d really look elsewhere.

    3. Marisol*

      I heartily agree with Amtelope and fposte, and will add that since Pocahontas is full time while you are part time, she does have, de facto, a higher rank than you do on the org chart, and that, coupled with the fact that she’s the daughter of the director, means she could abuse her power if she wanted to. If you decide to keep working here, you should take care not to do anything that steps on Pocahontas’s toes. I wouldn’t get pouty about her treating you like an assistant. If you are helping out temporarily with something you aren’t normally responsible for, then you *are* assisting her in a way, and the phrase “you’ll be my backup” does not sound off to me in the slightest. It’s her area. I have to wonder if you’re not just getting your ego bruised, so you might want to check that. On the other hand, even if she is in the wrong to speak to you/treat you this way, she still has more political capital than you, so there’s not much you can do about it. If you assert yourself and make waves, will that help you? Is Powhatan going to side with you instead of her? I bet that’s unlikely. It seems to me that all you can do is keep your work as separate from hers as possible, and ignore any perceived insults unless they truly threaten your position in the organization. If she’s re-doing brochures on a project that she is managing, then that’s her prerogative. It’s not really inappropriate action to take, and you have no standing to take her to task for that, since it’s her project. If she speaks dismissively of you, eh, let it go. If, however, she does something that has a real impact, for example, if she were to re-do your brochure for *your* event, then that’s a genuine threat that should be addressed. Only something like that is worth spending capital on. You have to be clear on what’s important, and what is just ego stuff. If it’s not important, let it slide, and as much as you possibly can, try to suck up to Pocahontas.

      It’s super -rambly, sorry. I stayed up late last night watching dumb youtube videos.

  181. Incognito Teapot*

    So after writing the whole saga and adding a tl;dr I decided post the summary and reply with the novel about a small situation.

    A coworker sent me an insulting email and CC’d our manager. I spoke with our manager and let him know (in more professional wording) that it was not ok for a coworker to speak to me like that and he ended up giving feedback to that employee. I’m not sure if I should have replied to the person directly.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Well, she did loop the manager in on it. If it was just between the two of you, I would have gone to her directly, but since your manager saw it (and presumably, you were ticked about it), I think going to the manager in this case was okay.

      1. Incognito Teapot*

        Thanks! And thanks to LBK too. After having our manager copied I felt like I had to make sure he didn’t have any concerns about the request and the conservation easily flowed into the email.

    3. Incognito Teapot*

      I had a situation at work this week and I’m not sure if I handled it the right way. I work in a 12-person teapot department as part of a 100-person home good manufacturer. I provide data to a couple of teapot makers to help them make specific teapots. Myself and the teapot makers used to report to the head of teapot making but he recently left for a new position so right now we all temporarily report to the VP of teapots (former manager’s boss).

      One of the newer teapot makers recently sent me a one-sentence email that our CEO wanted me to look into a potential teapot making material and I replied that I’ll add it to my to my list. I am sent this type of request very often and they are almost always not urgent. Because of my workload (I’m a one-person team doing the work of 2-3 people), it’s typical for me to have to sit on requests for a couple of weeks unless something is needed sooner. A couple of days later I received a follow up saying a report was needed within 48 hours (the original message had 0 details about background or timing). I sometimes have to push back due to my high workload and replied that it wouldn’t be a problem but I would have to do a slightly more limited report but would still get all the information needed to the CEO.

      I received a confirmation from the teapot maker saying that works and then 20 min later they sent a second flaming email saying how I needed to prioritize any requests from the CEO (which I do and have never missed a deadline), didn’t know what else I could possibly be working on, that the request was given to me several days ago and it would be hard to explain to the CEO why I couldn’t complete it in time, and copied our temporary manager “in case he can help me prioritize.”

      I’m still fuming after being told how I should be doing my job, saying he might have to explain to our CEO how I couldn’t do my job, and copying our VP. I am mid-level in seniority (the teapot maker is slightly higher but has 0 supervisory responsibilities) and am fully trusted to handle the data program. Because our VP was sent that email I went to speak with him briefly to let him know that this request will be completed by the deadline and that I was surprised (extremely angered) by the tone of the teapot maker’s email. Because the other person is a little senior to me I asked if they would like me to handle the response (because that’s the VP’s’ working style for things). VP said he would send an email saying how the email was inappropriate and I received a half-assed apology later that day.

      I know Alison usually recommends approaching someone directly and I usually do that but I’m not if that was right in this scenario. I was concerned about escalating anything at the time but I’m now worried it looks like I was asking for someone to hold my hand.

    4. Marisol*

      Uh, they fired the first shot–he brought the boss in. You just defended yourself. It sounds like you handled it cleanly to me. You handled it like a champ in fact. Now you have to go on as though nothing ever happened, without being weird or awkward or holding a grudge.

  182. Ash (the other one)*

    I’m super late to the game today but hopefully folks are still around for some advice. My boss recently asked me to take on supervising a colleague. This particular colleague has been at my organization for many more years than I have, is about 30 years my senior, and has essentially the same title as I do (and makes more money…but that’s not the point). She apparently is a bit of a problem child that no one wants to manage and does not manage her projects well. Since I’ve done very well at making sure my projects are completed on budget, etc., my boss wants me to work to bring this colleague in line. But, I’m struggling with how to approach this situation. The colleague I think knows she’s on thin ice so has been respectful of me and my authority thus far, but the whole situation is just a bit… weird and stressful. Has anyone had to deal with something similar? Any advice?

    1. misspiggy*

      I hope your boss has offered you an incentive for taking on this challenging and awkward responsibility…

      1. Ash (the other one)*

        Eh, not really. I still have a ton of impostor syndrome in my current role and it didn’t feel like something I could say no to. But it’s just super awkward.

    2. Manders*

      By supervising, do you mean that you’ll actually have the authority to discipline and fire this person? Or is your boss just expecting you to sort things out while also being her peer?

      1. Ash (the other one)*

        I sign her timesheets and am her named supervisor, but I don’t think I would be able to fire her…

        1. Sweater weather*

          Ugh, no. The old “you have all the responsibility and none of the authority” gig. It would be highly unusual for that to work out well. Your boss is trying to dump a problem on you, without giving you any tools to actually fix it.

          I would ask the boss what carrots or sticks you are authorized to use. If he says he just wants you to help her get better, then suggest you don’t need to be her manager to do that.

          You should also push for a raise.

  183. Anonymousaurus Rex*

    How do you handle working at a company that has lots of internal politics? I’m somehow terrible at negotiating this kind of thing and always end up on the wrong side of something/someone. It’s the kind of place where a decision gets made at the top, but there’s terrible communication and multiple breakdowns because of different power centers all along the chain of command, and by the time something gets to me it’s unclear what the direction is–but questions for clarification are also not welcome. (Like literally I’ve asked my boss for clarification and she tells me she doesn’t know but can’t ask because she’ll get in trouble for asking/be seen as pushing back). I keep being told we need to be transparent…and then get in trouble for making things *too* transparent. It’s a minefield! How does anyone get anything done in this kind of environment?!

  184. Dang*

    Happy Friday!

    I’ve been putting off completing my self-evaluation and I NEED to do it this afternoon. Hate these things sooo much!!

  185. Dienna Howard*

    I mentioned this in the comments of another thread the other day but it’s more appropriate for the open thread.

    The person who wrote in about a friend interrupting an interview at a coffee shop stated that s/he was being interviewed by a man in scrubs. When I had an interview this past summer, I wore a suit while the women who interviewed me wore tees, jeans, and sandals. It was a casual environment that dealt with animals, so I figured that was why.

    But I’ve interviewed at places that didn’t involve messy work or animals. I interviewed at a few temp agencies where I’m wearing my suit but the people interviewing me were wearing jeans (one said, “It’s our casual Friday!”) and others are wearing casual tunics and leggings. And at the one job interview I had earlier this month I’m wearing a suit while the woman interviewing me is wearing a dressy blouse and jeans (not casual Friday).

    This is new to me. At my last permanent full-time job, which was business professional (though people dressed in business casual) and had jean day Fridays, whenever people came in for interviews, those interviewing them would eschew the business casual and would dress up in suits, dresses, heels, ties, etc. Those who were assigned to interact with the public that day had to dress professionally.

    I will continue to wear suits on interviews but I’m getting over the culture shock that interviewers dressing down has appeared to be the new normal for me.

    1. imakethings*

      Yup! At my last interview I was in business casual with people in leggings or jeans. I’m a creative, so I wasn’t shocked, but it does feel a little strange to sit down looking so much more formal than others in the room.

      At my last job, we were told our interviews were casual so to dress accordingly. I wish more companies did that.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      For the interviewers it’s just a normal day at work, right? I would never dress up to interview someone.

      Fortunately in my industry you dress up for clients and that’s IT. Even interviewees often show up in jeans. As long as they’re neat with no holes in them, I have no problem with this, especially since in our casually-dressed industry, wearing a suit to work would be a flashing neon sign that says “Hey boss! I’m interviewing!”

  186. Sugar of lead*

    I got a job! I start orientation on Monday, and frankly I’m terrified. I’d given up on getting a job in my industry and was looking into restaurants and putting down roots elsewhere when I got the call to come in and talk to the hiring manager. I’m sort of hoping that this is the kind of thing that’s scariest before it happens.

  187. Is it Friday Yet?*

    Just have to rant. Over the past year, my company has had probably a dozen meetings (including one last week) about the Warbleworth Reconciliation Method, and my boss has shot it down EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. He’s on an international business trip, and I get an email.

    “I keep hearing people talk about the Warbleworth Reconciliation Method. Not sure what this even is. Let’s set up a meeting next week to discuss.”

    Does anyone else have a boss with severe memory issues that results in multiple redundant meetings? UGH

    1. Sugar of lead*

      He sounds like something out of Douglas Adams. You have my condolences. I was skimming the archives recently and Alison says that you can pretend you’re in a Jane Austen novel or a sitcom to help you deal with those people.

      1. Is it Friday Yet?*

        That’s great advice. Some days my office really does feel like The Office. He once held an all office meeting because we had an offer out to a Muslim woman and wanted to make sure the men knew they couldn’t touch her.

  188. Anonner Moose*

    I have a dilemma. I have two contacts who want to hire me, and I don’t know which route I want to go. They’re different career trajectories and work environments. I’ve been contracting for one and the other now has a permanent position open immediately, and I’m afraid of burning bridges if I go through that process and end up not accepting or do accept and then leave my contract early.

    Both are people who are senior to me and are interested in helping me develop my career, so they’re both putting in significant effort for me. I know they will understand if I go with the other option, but they will also be put out a lot of work (or have more work created, in the case of replacing me) so they won’t be thrilled if I pass.

    I’m not sure which option is best for me overall. One choice is to go into an established but niche field and be trained and mentored into it, and the other is to stay where I am in a very large company with a sort of battle royale going on for acclaim. Honestly, I’m hard-edged and it suits my temperament. On the other hand, there’s a lot of luck involved in your success. Buuuut it’s still worthwhile in that it could lead to other work, and the field is large enough I could find work anywhere. The more supportive niche field is small and finding work is notoriously difficult and could limit where I can live.

    Basically I have two very good but very different choices and I don’t know what path to take my life down or how to deal with the people offering to help me so they feel appreciated and not like they wasted time on me.

    1. Jules the First*

      In these situations, I flip a coin. If I’m happy with the outcome, then I go with what the coin said. If I’m bummed out by the outcome, then that tells me something about the choice I would actually prefer. It sounds reckless but it does actually make tight decisions easier.

    3. Reba*

      It sounds like more information is needed! Remember that starting on an interview process is not a commitment to take the job if offered — it is a two-way street, you are there to learn about them as much as them about you. Not taking a position shouldn’t burn any bridges, and if it does the employer is being unreasonable. Same with leaving a job, that is a normal thing that is part of doing business. I think you can be appreciative of the people reaching out to you but try not to let your personal feelings of obligation cloud your analyses of the jobs’ pros and cons. Good luck!

  189. Calypso*

    Are fidget cubes unprofessional?

    I have pretty bad ADHD and I am on medication for it, but I am still a very restless person. With the medication, I have the focus, but I still struggle keeping my hands still.

    I used to mindlessly doodle (eyes off the page, drawing spirals and things) during meetings, as in taking notes and paying attention but also keeping a scribble page when I wasn’t writing, but my boss asked me to stop doing that. I completely understand. However, I spent a lot of a meeting yesterday picking off my nail polish under the table which made me really evaluate the way I sit when I’m not actively doing something.

    Do you think that having a sort of clicky (but silent!) toy in my hand under the table would be a bad thing? I used to click pens constantly and I like that repetitive feeling but know that constant noise is annoying.

    1. Sugar of lead*

      As long as no one notices and you can slip it into your pocket if you feel someone looking at you it should be fine. Hell, if anything it will make you look more professional by helping you sit still.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Could you argue that this is a reasonable accommodation?

        I think it’s fine even if someone does notice but I guess this is a know your workplace thing.

    2. animaniactoo*

      I’ve used a bendy infinity loop (doesn’t make any noise, but can be retwisted indefinitely). Fortunately I work in an office where having a toy on my desk is potentially a work item.

      Also possible – stress ball? They’re kind of out of vogue, but it might look more “normal” as a fidget item.

    3. Newby*

      It should be fine if it is completely silent. A friend of mine has a fidget cube and some sides of it are completely appropriate for a meeting while others do make sound. Most of the clicky options make some noise, but the wheels do not.

    4. Sadsack*

      I know someone​ who always plays with a rubber band, especially on the phone. Not sure if you can pull that off in a meeting. He doesn’t snap it, he just rolls it around in between his fingers. I am aware becsuse he is my boss and we work closely, otherwise I don’t know if I’d notice.

    5. Anon today...and tomorrow*

      My kids have fidget cubes. They’re AWESOME! There are noisy, clicky parts as well as silent, moveable parts that are great for meetings. I’m actually picking up one for me this weekend. :)

    6. Matilda Jefferies (formerly JMegan)*

      You can also get fidget jewellery, if you would like that kind of thing – there’s a ton of it on Etsy. I don’t know if it would satisfy the specific urge to “click,” if that’s what’s important to you, but there are lots of options available. I’m a fidgeter myself, so some of these things are a godsend.

      Also, boo to your boss for asking you to stop doodling!

    7. Beancounter Eric*

      Get a fidget spinner – quiet, inobtrusive, and if you look a bit, cheap.

      And no, I don’t see a problem with a cube, spinner, etc.

    8. LizB*

      I cut little strips of paper (think the size of a paper clip) and roll them between my fingers when I really need my fidgeting to be silent.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Linking paper clips in a chain can be good too.

        Unless you need to be able to use them.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      I agree with the outrage in some tweets about it being carrot cake. As far as cakes go, carrot cake is pretty polarizing. Plus, cream cheese frosting, or no?

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        Also, oh God, please don’t hire this goofball.

  191. Collie*

    Update from last week!

    (Crossing my fingers the html there is accepted.)

    Anyway. I found out through the application management system that I was referred for an interview so I got in touch with said supervisor ASAP. We talked Wednesday evening and it seems like she changed her mind about trying to get on the panel (or never meant it for real — either way, it didn’t sound like she was aiming for that). However she did say she’d give the hiring manager a call and ask another manager in the org with whom I’ve worked to also give hiring manager a call on my behalf. I’m in the process of setting up the interview with admin today for next week. I’m trying to keep myself from assuming this means I’m in, but Supervisor seems to have a lot of pull in the org…

    Someone help talk me down from being convinced this is mine already? (It’s not, it’s not, it’s not.)

  192. Kay*

    I just found out that I blew out the transmission on my pickup truck while hauling for work this past Tuesday.

    I work at a museum, and was hauling a piece of public art about 75 miles. The transmission started slipping in the last 5 miles or so but I got it there safe & sound. It’s an older truck, but I’ve hauled many things with it for many years, and had also hauled this piece before without incident – so I have experience in hauling and the load was not unreasonable. It was just dumb bad luck.

    I adore this truck but I also work at a museum; my budget is tight at the best of times, and it makes me queasy to think about putting an additional $1,700 on my credit card.

    Is there any argument that I can bring to my supervisor (the director) for work to pick up part of the cost, or is this a case where I knew the risks and it’s on my head?

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      Even you know the transmission blow out wasn’t caused by the work trip. As you said, it was dumb bad luck. I think it would be a bit much to ask- it is an older truck, and those transmissions eventually go.

      We got rid of our truck in December because of the cost of transmissions! It started to refuse to change gears if 4WD was turned on, but 2 separate trips to the dealership and they said there was nothing wrong! So with the dealership’s assurance that nothing was wrong, we traded that baby in before the transmission died in a way that was more obvious. :P

    2. animaniactoo*

      If you regularly haul for work, it’s reasonable to ask for it as part of using your personal vehicle for company work and increased wear/tear on it. If they turn you down, fine. But you’re okay to ask.

    3. Marcy Marketer*

      This is a tough one! My instinct says that you can’t ask for reimbursement on this, but you can negotiate to have mileage and wear and tear reimbursed. If you had been getting paid for that as you used your truck for work, you would have had some money for the repairs. You can ask for back payment of that, but I think it would be unusual.

    4. Beancounter Eric*

      Was work reimbursing you for mileage?

      If so, I don’t think you have much of an argument. If not, a) why not?, and b) you have a much better case for asking for at least partial reimbursement.

    5. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I don’t think you really have much of a case for reimbursement, honestly – it was dumb luck that this happened when you happened to be doing something for work, and an old truck can dump a transmission just about anytime it feels like.

  193. Marcy Marketer*

    Here’s a new one! I recently attended a work function, and I noticed the “young females” all naturally seemed to congregate together, while the older, more advanced people congregated together. I’m 7 years out of college and I look young, and I have a natural discomfort with people who I perceive as “more important” than me (this usually goes away after I get to know them). I am I believe higher grade than a lot of the younger folks, though not as high as the directors and VPs. I think it sends a visual message that I’m young to hang out with the younger folks, but I’m also nervous to socialize with the directors. Does anyone have any tips on how to talk to people higher up in the organization, a few years older than you?

    1. Collie*

      This probably isn’t the “right” answer, but latch on to one (either outside of these events or just as it’s starting) and let them bring you into the higher circles. I’m super awkward, though, so I have a hard time imagining that strategy going well for me.

    2. Student*

      Ask them to talk about themselves in a way that conveys you find them impressive/interesting. If you know a topic they care about, ask about that – “How’s your big Teapot Spout Initiative going? What’s it like to roll something that big out?” If you don’t know them enough to ask something like that, you can try generalized or specific Career Wisdom questions, like asking them how they’d handle something you’ve encountered that they probably have expertise in, or how they recommend networking in the company effectively.

    3. Spoonie*

      I usually scope it out and look for someone I actually know or recognize in some way. Have you seen someone in the break room a lot? In a meeting? I try to pick someone that looks nice, engaging, and just…take a deep breath and go for it. As you go to more functions, the circle grows.

  194. PM-NYC*

    Question about listing hard to quantify accomplishments on a resume.

    As a Project Manager, I feel like my main goals are to complete projects that are 1) high-quality and 2) on time. I work in a creative field that has a lot of design changes to project scope & a high amount of design changes/back and forth throughout the project. I feel like #1 is hard to quantify on a resume and #2 usually doesn’t happen due to factors that are largely out of my control. Any advice on ways to list accomplishments on my resume?

    I feel like I mostly focus on using phrases that show I’m used to working on a variety of projects at the same time, many of which are complex and change frequently, but not sure if there’s a better way to go about this.

    1. Working Mom*

      Can you focus on the outcome of the project – and use soft savings when needed? I am in a similar role and often have to get creative with a financial analyst to quantify hours saved, rework reduced or eliminated, etc.

      1. PM-NYC*

        Ooo, that’s a good call about hours/money saved. I don’t formally track that now, but it would probably be good to start.

  195. Dinosaur*

    Does anyone have any advice about logistical concerns regarding internships? Next year I’ll be completing and internship for my last term of my degree in a practice profession. I’d like to do my internship on the East Coast. What are the best options for housing? Any good websites to find cheap rooms for rent outside of Craigslist? Any transportation hacks? If you completed an internship, what are some things you wish you had known beforehand? I’m married and my spouse won’t be coming with me, so if anyone has tips for managing one’s relationship and household during an absence I’d love to hear them, too.

    1. LadyKelvin*

      All of your questions about housing, and transportation are really really location dependent, so I can’t really help you unless I know what city you will be in. I did however, live long distance from my spouse for 3 years of our marriage and we found that finding something to do routinely really helped us survive the periods of separation. For example, we lived in the same time zone so we would make the same dinner together every evening over skype and eat together and we would always call to say goodnight before we went to bed.

      1. Dinosaur*

        Whoops, should have added location info! I’m looking at the DC/Maryland/Virginia area, preferably close to a metro line, or NYC or upstate New York. Also, my internship will last 10-12 weeks if that changes things for anyone reading this. My main question is how to even find a place to stay for that period of time. I’ve only ever had year-long leases so I’m out of my depth.

        Three years, wow! I love your cooking together idea! We love cooking together and I was worried about missing that routine, so thank you. We’ll be in different time zones but we’ll make it work.

        1. Louise*

          For NYC – the gypsy housing group on facebook is a great resource if you’re on the artsier side!

        2. Dienna Howard*

          The forums at City-Data.com can be good for more information about a location, though some of those forums have trolls. Though you said you wanted other sources than Craigslist, it is a good one to use for finding places to stay.

          The DMV area can be expensive, especially close to a Metro line. Some suburban areas are cheaper than DC proper. WMATA (the DC area’s transit) is slated to have a fare increase in July. Other than staying near a Metro line, the areas with the more reliable bus lines that run frequently (like those bus lines listed here) are another option to consider.

          Best of luck to you in finding an internship and a place!

        3. gwal*

          Your school might have an alumni mailing list or facebook group where you can find sublet information. Also just as a warning because I’m familiar with both places DC is VERY expensive in most places “close to a metro line” and Upstate NY will likely be shockingly cheap in comparison (like, rent a place alone on a month-to-month lease or sign up for a year then break the lease when you leave and even with the attendant fees/higher rates you’ll spend less than you would on a shared-apartment sublet in the DC/MD/VA tristate area).

  196. Me*

    UPDATE:
    Zip, zilch, and zero on the job front. No response from most; a couple of no’s (including a book rejection–phooey).

    I need to manage my time better, so I’m sharing my plan so I have some accountability. Y’all poke me if you catch me on AAM when I’m supposed to be doing something else! ;)

    1. Get the hell out of bed earlier. Left to my own devices, I go to bed at midnight and get up at 7 or 7:30. A good sleep schedule for me when working is 11-6. Starting this coming week, that’s my schedule. If I get a job quickly, I need to be able to get up!

    2. Morning is for going through job listings while I have breakfast. I tend to find more newly posted jobs earlier in the week and earlier in the day.

    3. Late morning, assuming it’s not raining (Gah! Send an ark; this is getting ridiculous!), I will take my walk. Once I get a job, walk will happen after work or if I don’t have far to commute, first thing in the morning (ugh). After I shower, I WILL NOT PUT MY PAJAMAS BACK ON. I can read AAM while I eat lunch, like I did at Exjob before they started taking my tasks away.

    4. Afternoon–WRITE. I have a new idea, and I want to work on it and see if it is worth a damn. Probably not, but hey.

    5. Late afternoon/evening, eat dinner and watch a little TV. After that, studying the HTML stuff. When the neighborhood quiets down, meditation.

    6. NO JOB HUNTING STUFF AFTER FIVE O’ CLOCK. OR ON WEEKENDS. If I’m busy on the weekend, it’s usually on Saturday, and Sunday I almost always clean the house. If I’m not busy on Saturday, then I can spend more time writing. There is no point even talking about it then; I need a break, and you can’t do anything about it then anyway.

    I have to do something. It’s 1 pm and I am still in my pjs. :P

      1. Me*

        Well, slightly more organized, anyway!

        As soon as this weather lets up, I’m also planning to have a big-ass garage sale. If I am lucky enough to find a job out of state, I want to be able to get out of here faster. Ugh, soooooo much stuff. I’ve been in this house since 2002 and even with frequent purges, I have Too. Much. Stuff. Chances are I’d end up in a very small apartment with no storage, and I don’t want to haul it anywhere and then purge.

    2. the.kat*

      I like your plan. I need you to write one for me. :)

      Seriously though, I feel like you’ve taken a good sampling of your strengths and are working with them. Good luck!

    3. Jennifer Finds Job-Hunting Very Tiring*

      Didn’t know you were hunting too. And here’s something you probably didn’t know: I followed you here from Evil HR Lady. Yes, true, I always liked your comments there. I’d heard of AAM, probably from Evil herself, possily from Captain Awkward, but I’d never checked it out myself and I’m awfully glad I finally did. I’ve been reading here for at least 9 months I think.

      Limiting your job-hunt times is really good. You just can’t do it 24/7, so giving yourself a cut-off time is wise. I’m tending to do mine starting around 9, then I take the early afternoon off to spend time with my big-time-night-owl wife who works hard to get up by noon, then I wander back to the computer in mid-afternoon to deal with anything that’s happened since I got up. Plus of course monitoring my email throughout and answering the phone whenever it rings. (Curse you card services!)

      (And when I can’t find job-hunt work to do, I’m revising a writing sample whose format I always disliked, and reading my “API’s for Dummies” book.)

      Another thing I find really useful is to GET DRESSED pretty early. Not gonna lie, sometimes that means changing from my nightgown to my lounging-pajamas, but it still works for me. Putting on shoes helps me feel even more in get-stuff-done mode but I just hate wearing shoes in the house. I prefer barefoot or slippers.

      1. Me*

        Hah, you did? Aww!

        WELL HERE IT IS MONDAY MORNING AND I ALREADY BLEW IT LOL. I got a second wind last night and went to bed too late. :P

    5. Colette*

      I’m a big fan of having a schedule when unemployed. I hope this works well for you.

      (I do think you can cut yourself some slack on wjphen you get up – you will adjust when you get a job.)

  197. Kirstin*

    I have at least four different versions of my name that my coworkers know me by, and I’m not sure how to undo that.

    Basically, I started out with current company as a temp – when I was shy and this was my first office job – so when coworkers introduced me to others, I didn’t speak up to correct them when they called me Christina/Kristin/Keirsten. I also tend to be averse to correcting people at all, because it feels disrespectful, but I’m working on that. (And I’ve had a couple knee-jerk reactions from the few times I did correct someone on my name, and those didn’t go well. Like, the individual didn’t appreciate me correcting them because I was junior and younger, and also presumably because they didn’t like feeling embarrassed about something they just declared as fact to a group of people. Their ish, not mine, but it left an impression with me I’m still getting over.)

    Anyways. Fast-forward almost two years, and I’ve got four names in my office. It hasn’t affected my work or how people contact me, except for email addresses no one proofreads (>:C), but it’s begun to bother me a bit that 1. my name is constantly being mangled, and 2. I’ve basically let people I respect and enjoy working with think they’re addressing me with my preferred name. Any ideas/scripts for fixing that? It’s my fault, I know, but it’s something that only comes up if someone says good morning or something, and it’s also been two. dang. years. I done goofed.

    I’m also still not sure how to correct higher-ups/bosses without seeming presumptuous? I’ve been going with, “Oh, actually, it’s Kirstin, nice to meet you blah blah blah,” but is that appropriate? What if the boss doesn’t register that and still calls me Kristin? How do y’all with bajillion-iteration names deal? Because I obviously can’t. :|

    1. mf*

      Could you do this in writing? Maybe send out an email:

      “Recently I’ve realized that I have at least four different names that my coworkers and managers know me by: [insert names here]. I’m concerned that this may cause some confusion, so I thought you all should know that my legal name is actually X. I don’t mind it when I’m called by a nickname or a mispronunciation of my name, so please know that if you use the wrong name, I won’t be offended!”

      (You could probably use this same script in person. The reason why I suggest email is that it allows the higher ups to save face. They can start calling you by the right name and pretend that they never used the wrong one.)

    2. Dienna Howard*

      When people butcher my name, which I am used to at this point, I correct them. Fictional example:

      Woman: “This is Diana.”
      Me: “Dienna. Nice to meet you.”
      Woman: “Anyway, Diana will you…”
      Me: “Dienna.”

      I correct them, plain and simple. Some will get it, some won’t. It doesn’t have to be a big production, just correct them in the moment. Trust me, it’s frustrating, like in this actual scenario in a call I received a few days ago:

      Woman: “This is Ms. [Jones] calling from [organization]. May I speak to Die-ee-na or Diana…?”
      Me: “It’s Dienna.”
      Woman: “Oh. Anyway, this is Ms. Jones calling from…”

      …but people’s rudeness about jacking up your name is a reflection on them, not on you. Hard as it is, don’t take it personally.

    3. CM*

      I think “Oh, actually, it’s Kirstin, nice to meet you blah blah blah,” is perfect for people who you wouldn’t expect to remember your name. For people you have been working with for a long time, I think you should explain — maybe something like, “Since I’ve been working here, I’ve been answering to lots of variations of my name, but I’d like people to start calling me by my actual name, Kirstin.” If it’s a friendly coworker, you could add, “Do you think you could help me with that? If you hear somebody calling me by the wrong name, it would be great if you could tell them it’s Kirstin.” (Sending out an email seems weird to me, like you’re making a big deal out of this, but then I am in a work culture where people generally don’t send group emails about personal things.)

    4. Thlayli*

      I have an unusual name too. Your script is fine for new people but not sure how to correct people you’ve know for ages.

      Personally I amn’t bothered by incorrect names at all. A good few times people will see my name written down and say things like “oh I always thought you were kiersten but it’s actually kirstin” or whatever. I have a stock response that “it’s actually kirstin but I’m used to people getting it wrong and it doesn’t bother me. At this stage I’ll pretty much answer to anything starting with a K”. Most people laugh and then ask how to address me correctly.

      But if it actually does bother you I’m not sure how to go about fixing it. You could either try the one-off email or correct people individually as needed e.g. “My email address is actually kirstin.smith”

  198. AnonForThis*

    So my resume is largely supervisory, as I kind of found my way into a people-managing role over years of promotions and so on. But I am increasingly unhappy managing people, even though I excel at it and I’ve been commended for it. When looking for a new job is there a way to say “I’d rather not be in charge of other people” without coming across as negative? How can I break out of this role especially when my resume basically says “I’m a great manager”?

    1. Student*

      I think mainly you just have to ask about job duties. You may need to progress out of it gradually rather than all at once, and maybe just reducing the people-managing will ease your discontent with it. There’s a big difference between managing a department of 2, a department of 15, and a department of 40, etc.

  199. Anon today...and tomorrow*

    I’d be interested in learning some of your strategies in how to balance work / life when you’re life is kind of exploding everywhere…at all hours.
    A little background: I’m a mom to a 5th and 6th grader. My 5th grader has had some on-going behavior issues that have steadily worsened over the last year. He’s seeing a therapist, has an official diagnosis (anxiety and intermittent rage disorder) and we’re working with the school as well to help him. This month has been hellish. It feels like the school has given up on him and the progress he’s making and they’re resorting to extreme measures for every outburst he has at school (loud, disruptive, profanity laden but never physically violent to himself or others). Two weeks ago, the school insisted he be evaluated by emergency psychiatric services (to which the PES official said that she felt there was a gross overreaction on the part of the school) and this week they suspended him (after he was physically assaulted by another child who was not suspended as well).
    I’m at my wits end. This is my son…he’s little, he’s not getting the support he needs when he needs it, and my worries for him are coloring all aspects of my day…including the time I spend at work. I really love my job. My boss has been fairly understanding but she’s tied by the rules of the company. I have productivity goals that I need to hit and this month they’ve taken a HUGE hit. I feel pulled in several directions during the day. I’m trying to get paperwork in order for him, schedule appts with specialists, get my work done here in the office, meet goals, etc. I don’t want a PIP or worse.
    Any advice on how you balance work/life while your life is handling a crisis? Please?

    1. TL -*

      Can you take some time off if needed? Sometimes the only way out is through, though.
      But it sounds like your son should have an IEP (I think that’s what they’re called, but a specialized education plan) which should include discipline methods.

    2. LizB*

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this right now. It’s so frustrating when schools aren’t doing what they need to do to meet kids’ needs. If you haven’t already started talking IEP or 504 accommodations, please consider it – there are absolutely things the school can and should do to help your kiddo be able to learn while he works on his behavior. Google the PACER Center for great info. Also, remember that the school year is almost over, so in ~6 weeks you’ll have a little more breathing room on this since he won’t be getting suspended all the time. (*takes off youth worker hat*)

      Do you have a co-parent who can take on some of the paperwork, appointments, and other work on this issue? If so, talk to them about re-balancing the responsibilities. Google Docs are great for creating shared to-do lists so you can stay on the same page and no one person has to manage the whole thing by themselves.

      Take advantage of your EAP or any free counseling resources in your area – specifically ask them for help with stress and worry for yourself, not your son. There are things you can do to take your mind out of crisis mode during the work day: worry journals, containment visualizations, etc. – but you should learn them from a professional.

      Be meticulous about your to-do lists at work, and ruthless about prioritizing. Anything that can go on the back burner does. Anything that is urgent is broken down into easily doable steps. Spend a little time getting yourself ultra-organized so even when you’re being pulled in a bunch of directions emotionally, you know what you need to do next.

      Show your boss all the work you’re doing to plan and prioritize, and have her double-check that your priorities are correct and you’re not back-burnering things you really need to get done. Also, make sure you’re framing this as a situation of a family member having an ongoing health issue (which it is). People get weird about behavioral issues in kids, but ultimately it comes down to having a sick kid. The framing won’t change your expectations, but it could help your boss understand what’s going on.

    3. Mandy Nae*

      I have gone through personal crises that definitely impacted my work life. And it’s hard because I tend to be an overachiever and I like to do well at work. But sometimes your’e just at your wit’s end and have nothing else to give to anyone. I get it. Really.

      If your son is having these issues, you can likely apply for FMLA to help care for him. It sounds like there will be a couple of appointments a month that he needs to be taken to. At least then you do have some protection if you are off to care for him.

      And hang in there.

    4. LCL*

      If you’re in the US you should apply for FML, if you qualify. Get it for intermittent leave.

    5. mf*

      Really good advice from the commenters here. It sounds like FMLA is really a must for you. One more thing: if you can throw money at any of your problems, do it! Eat out more or do a meal ordering service. Hire a cleaning person. Do a delivery service for your groceries. Basically, if you have the money (and I understand that you might not), then pay for services that will clear some of those routine errands and chores off your plate. It will help you feel a little less stressed and give you more time to deal with work and your son’s needs.

  200. Emily*

    I’m sure this has come up before, but how do people feel about armpit hair (especially on women) in the workplace? Totally inappropriate? Frowned upon, but hard to enforce? Mostly okay, as long as you’re willing to endure the inevitable judgment from people who don’t like it?

    (As a cis woman who doesn’t usually shave, and who currently works very casual environment, I’m wondering if I’ll have to adjust if I work somewhere else. I’m assuming yes – that I’ll either have to shave, or avoid wearing anything that shows my underarms – but I’m curious to hear what other people think.)

      1. Anon today...and tomorrow*

        I agree with you.
        I have a shirt that has these sleeves that flutter back if I raise my arm above my head. I like the shirt, totally appropriate for work, but when I wear it, I am so aware of my armpits that I don’t lift my arms beyond desk height unless absolutely necessary. :)

      2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        What does this mean, though? Do you just mean you shouldn’t wear sleeveless tops/dresses? Is it the armpit “crease” that’s a problem, or just the actual pits (i.e., if you have an office job where you don’t raise your arms, sleeveless shirts are ok)?

        I’m not trying to argue with your position, I just am having a hard time visualizing what you mean.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          I would love to see an end to sleeveless tops/dresses at work, but I know that’s not going to happen. (But it’s weird how we’d consider it so unprofessional on a man but not on women.) But mainly I just don’t want to see pits — so yeah, if you’re wearing that and never raising your arms (is that possible?) then sure.

      3. Student*

        As a short person who is eye-level with a normal adult’s armpits, I agree. No armpits at work, regardless of gender, please! I’ll exempt jobs where there’s a Good Reason (TM) for armpit-exposing apparel, like working out in the sun all day, but whhyyyyyyyy in the office?

        Maybe the thermostat could be deployed as a secret weapon in the war against visible armpits – can’t imagine people wearing sleeveless tops in my cold office.

      4. TheLazyB*

        I usually wear fairly thin (but not sheer!) sleeveless tops to work, and even then I’m quite often too hot in the office.

        I would abide by this if I did without melting!

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m a feminist, so I think the pressure on women to shave their armpits is ridiculous, but I also know different workplaces will have different norms…

      1. Anon today...and tomorrow*

        Not sure what being a feminist has to do with armpit hair. I’m a feminist too…I don’t like armpit hair. Do or don’t shave them…they’re your armpits, just don’t flash them at work. LOL!

          1. Anonymous Educator*

            Well, I don’t want to see anyone’s armpits either, but armpit hair is certainly a gendered issue, because women face far more pressure to remove armpit hair than men do.

            2. paul*

              But if your armpits aren’t visible at work how is it a work issue? I’m struggling to think of an office environment where it’s normal to see pits…

              1. The OG Anonsie*

                Plenty of people don’t work in offices, but also there are lots of offices that are super casual. It’s not the standard but it’d hardly unheard of.

        2. Vin Packer*

          Come now. Anonymous Educator did not say “feminists must all personally love armpit hair for themselves.” I think AE’s implication was clear that they just aren’t here for being overly controlling and male gaze-y about what women should or shouldn’t have to do.

          1. Lissa*

            +1 I’m a feminist and not OK with the idea that women are “gross” if they don’t shave but it’s fine if men do. Which has nothing to do with whether I personally shave. Actually I am super here for “no exposed armpits at work regardless of gender” though. And really wish all standards were gender equal which I realize hahahaha not going to happen, but still.

    3. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I do not shave but I also am in the “try not to show your armpits at work” camp.

    4. TL -*

      I dislike all armpit hair, male or female, (it’s part of why I won’t watch basketball!) and I would be weirded out to see an unshaven armpit at work.

      But if it was a really casual environment, I think I’d attribute that to my own issues; in a more formal one, I’d think it was inappropriate.

    5. Louise*

      I work at a start up-y non prof in the bay area, and I’ve got brown-rose ombre and unshaved pits. It’s a jeans&tshirt kind of office and no one cares here! I’m of the mindset that if a company has a problem with unshaved armpits on women, it’s probably not a company I want to work for.

      1. CM*

        At first I read this as brown-rose ombre armpit hair… which, I guess if that’s what you meant, you do you!
        I think if sleeveless tops for women are acceptable in the office, it’s nobody’s business whether your pits are shaved. Unfortunately, if you choose not to shave, I think you need to prepare for some judgment and commentary, just like if you choose not to wear makeup to an office where most women do.

        1. Louise*

          HAHAHAHA that’s not what I meant but what a great idea!!! I think you’re right with the judgement thing – the punk rock teenager in me never died, so I still take a little pride in making uptight folks mildly uncomfortable (and am very lucky to be working at an org where our CTO where’s burrito-themed shirts).

          1. mreasy*

            So many of my friends in college matched their armpit hair to their dye job. Electric blue on both was one of my faves!

        2. TL -*

          That’s exactly how I read it! Which, after my initial horror, can only be responded to with, “find your own bliss.”

    6. LizB*

      I think you’re going to get a lot of pushback in a lot of workplaces. Sadly, I don’t think armpit hair is an acceptable part of a business casual look in our society right now, so you might get dinged for not complying with a dress code. I don’t personally wear armpit-baring clothes at work at all for reasons not related to shaving, but if I want to wear something borderline (cap sleeves, etc.) I make sure to only wear it when I’ve had the time and inclination to shave that day or the day before.

    7. CatCat*

      Well, in a workplace where armpits would be expected to be seen (water-based activities come to mind like life guarding or swim instruction), I’d think it would be nobody’s beeswax.

    8. Stop That Goat*

      I can’t think of a reason that armpits should be generally viewable at work honestly. That seems like an area that should be covered by most professional dress.

      1. MWKate*

        Agreed – in most workplaces I think they should be covered. I don’t particularly like dress codes that apply vastly different standards for men and women, and sleeveless shirts definitely fit into this category.

    10. The Other Dawn*

      Regardless of whether armpits are shaved or not, that’s not something I want to see in the office. I MAY be able to deal with it if they’re shaved. But unshaved? No way. Never. Male or female.

    11. Elizabeth West*

      I don’t care if you don’t shave. It doesn’t bother me too much if someone wears a sleeveless shirt, but I’m more concerned about SMELLING your pits rather than seeing them. So everybody, shaven or not, take a shower and wear some deodorant!

      I’m guessing, however, that you will have to avoid showing them, as office dress codes often include a prohibition against shirts with no sleeves, for both sexes. They usually say no tank tops or the like, but some don’t even want women to wear shell tops without sleeves unless they have a jacket or cardigan on.

    12. Nan*

      Hairy armpits on men or women kinda weird me out. Even if you are wearing a sleeveless shirt, I shouldn’t really see your pits unless you’re walking around waving your hands in the air.

    13. imakethings*

      I am personally for permitting my armpits their right to breathe, but I also function best is casual work environments where I can flash my pits, tats, and facial piercing with abandon. I’m in a corporate environment now and am constantly confused about what people get away with and self conscious when I try it myself. I think a lot of it comes down to how certain bodies look in certain clothing. I’m tall and very thin with broad shoulders (I’m an athlete), so most sleeved blouses simply do not fit me. I have to wear cardigans in order to keep my armpits to myself. Same goes for skirts. If a normal person wore the skirts of my waist size, they’d reach their knees. On me, my butt is far closer to the hemline. I’m forced to wear tights year round as a result. I’m always worried I’m offending someone with my pits/knees/wild hair, but honestly I have no idea how these people perceive me. I’m probably fine(ish).

      1. Jan Levinson*

        I have the same issue with skirts! Business casual skirts that would like appropriate on most others, look border line night club-esque on me.

    14. Sasquatch*

      Well I’m mostly in the no-pits-at-work camp BUT since that isn’t a widespread view for casual workplaces in the US and since I don’t shave my legs I promise not to judge you if we work together, you have good hygiene, and we’re not working with food. :-)

    15. Emily*

      After reading all your responses, I feel the need to clarify that I wouldn’t bare my pits at work, shaved or unshaved, until after I had a good feel for the office culture. :)

      I was thinking that at some workplaces, sleeveless or cap-sleeve blouses and dresses might be okay for women to wear (and I agree that it’s a weird double standard that women can sometimes wear sleeveless items and men generally can’t), but it sounds like that’s not the case everywhere – good to know!

  201. LizB*

    A thought I would like to send out to all job-seekers out there in the world (or at least the US): if your resume does not list experience relevant to the position I’m hiring for, for goodness sake write a cover letter that explains why you want to do the job for which you’re applying instead of the types of jobs you have on your resume. If you don’t, your application is going straight into the round file, because I have plenty of people who either have relevant experience or who explained why they want to move into my field in their cover letters. I will interview them instead.

    1. hbc*

      This so, so much. Maybe it’s obvious to the applicant that there’s transferable skills, but people hiring for a specific position may have zero knowledge of how relevant those other positions are. Just, give me *something* to indicate you didn’t blindly submit your resume to every Indeed listing in your zip code that had the keyword “manager”.

    2. Chaordic One*

      Transferable skills, yeah. I think that a lot of job-seekers think along the lines of, “Well, I’ve made chocolate teapots, I can certainly learn to make chocolate coffeepots.”

  202. Louise*

    How do folks feel about sharing feedback for a really horrendous off-boarding experience if it’s for a place you really care about?

    I did some bookkeeping work for a theatre for a few months, and let’s just say the transition out has not been smooth. I keep getting emails from my replacement (who has, quite literally, decades more experience than I do) and every time I tell her I can’t call her because I’m at work or on a business trip, I just don’t get a response. (I always make an effort to point her to resources or tell her who to talk to, but most of the emails are basically “can you check my work.”) I also was included on an email from the managing director that started, “I don’t know who processed this week’s payroll, but what’s up with these incorrect checks?” It’s literally part of her job to physically sign off on payroll before it’s processed, and I got this email a good two weeks after I stopped working there (but was still doing some training.) I still haven’t gotten a “thanks for your help training, we’re all set!” despite the fact that I’ve gone in multiple times after my full time job to help with the transition, which has left me feeling pretty sour.

    TL;DR I left a great theatre with talented, well intentioned people who have absolutely zero management skills and did a piss poor job helping with a transition. I don’t want them to lose talented people because they don’t know how to manage or communicate. Is it worth sending an email?

    1. CM*

      Could you set up an in-person meeting, maybe over coffee, with the managing director and talk to her about this? But I would only do it if you have concrete suggestions for things they can do to improve.

    2. LCL*

      How do you think an email will help them? The kind of problem you described won’t be fixed by one email.
      I would send them an email telling them you are done helping and must use all your professional efforts to keep your new job.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Maybe try a bit of wilful misunderstanding. “It’s all going well thanks, I hope you get it sorted.” Do NOT help.

    4. AdAgencyChick*

      Not your circus, not your monkeys any more.

      You tell your replacement — once — that you need to focus on your new job/the rest of your life/whatever, and you’re no longer available to answer questions.

      Any further emails get “sorry, I can’t help you, check the documentation.”

  203. Sam W*

    My workplace in a retail store has run out of overtime and as two colleagues have left I asked my boss if I could have more scheduled hours (so a change to my contract). They know my financial situation is terrible and is causing me depression and reducing my work output, however my manager’s response was that the way they schedule the system is fine and if there is overtime he will call me on short notice to come work when other colleagues decline the overtime.

    I’ve been struggling to find new work and I’ve started to feel overly stressed, dizzy and experiencing moodswings while on the shop floor. Do you have any advice that could help me convince my boss that this approach doesn’t help me, and just makes my anxiety worse, or should I just suck it up?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I’m sorry things are so rough, but it sounds like they don’t actually have any more hours to assign you?

    2. Trout 'Waver*

      I’m sorry you’re struggling. But you aren’t aware of your coworkers’ struggles. They may need the hours just as much as you.

    3. Colette*

      I completely understand why you’d prefer more hours, but it doesn’t sound like it makes sense for the business. Do they often call you for overtime? If so, you could maybe ask them to reconsider, but if they only need overtime when someone is sick or away, there are no additional hours to give. And, as Trout ‘Waver pointed out, others may also want more hours.

      Ultimately, your anxiety, depression, and finances are yours to deal with. I’d suggest focusing on being professional when you’re there (don’t let your mood swings show) and picking up new work, even if it’s ad hoc work (tutoring, mowing lawns, house sitting, etc.). Since finances are a stressor for you, you may also want to sit down and make a budget based on the hours you’re getting and see if there’s anything you can change there.

  204. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    If you were attempting a lateral move in the same company, and the folks liked your credentials but didn’t make you an offer, but now are swamped and begging you for help, what would you do? Help or admire the schadenfreude from a distance?

    1. Stop That Goat*

      If there’s a chance that you might want to try again for the position in the future, this would be the opportunity to show off your skills.

      1. JulieBulie*

        Yes, refer them to the supervisor. A sharp reminder of the fact that they could have been your supervisor instead!

  205. iced tea please*

    I was wondering if folks who manage/hire could give me some insight on a question I was asked recently in an interview. (I didn’t get the job.) This was for a manager in a customer service position.

    The question: An employee tells you another employee is using their cell phone at the public service point, which is against policy. What do you do? What do you do if you never witness the behavior, but only have the other employee’s word?

    I realize this is actually a two parter- how do you handle inappropriate behavior that you never see as a manager, and what to do about the tattle-telling other employee. My gut reaction is that I can’t address behavior I haven’t witnessed in person, and to ignore the tattle-tale, but I realize that may not be the right thing to do (or the answer they were looking for). Having never been in a situation where I had to manage behavior like this, I would like to know: what is actually a good way to handle this situation?

    1. Nan*

      I think you can address the employee who is using (supposedly) using their cell. You can do something like “Hey, Bob, I’ve heard, but not seen that you have been using your cell. You know you can’t use your cell on the public floor. If you have been, please do not.”

      Or, you can address the entire staff “hey, guys, remember, no cells on the floor.”

      I’m not big on tattle tales, but if there was a larger problem (say harassment) you’d want that brought to you, so you don’t want to discourage all tattling. Maybe go with “thanks for bringing it to my attention, I’ll keep an eye out”

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        This is the likely scenario that prompts 90% of “rule reminder” memos and speeches. ;)

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      I think you try to observe the behavior yourself before proceeding (unless multiple trusted sources are reporting it).

  206. BeetleBug*

    Here’s the short version. I recently applied for, and was hired, into a job in another department, which another employee was temporarily filling. I know this person (not well) and we have always gotten along, but the interaction has not been extensive. In addition to what I am sure must be hurt feelings about not getting the job, I’m discovering that this person has some pretty intense control issues. I’m changing things, for a number of reasons, partly because of my own style and partly because one of my charges is to change very specific things. The rest of the staff seems to be on board. I’m trying to be as sensitive as possible, but there is an underlying tension, and I’m not sure how much is real and how much is in my head. There has also been some reluctance to let go, and it recently caused a problem when this person made a decision that should have been referred to me. I generally don’t like to dictate who can talk to whom, and like my groups to work as teams. In the past, somehow, I’ve never had a problem with people knowing boundaries, but obviously, this is a unique situation. And maybe I’ve been lucky in the past. Any tips on how to address this?

    1. LCL*

      When someone jumps over you to make a decision, you have to tell the person who jumped over you and the person who made the decision that in the future you will be making the decision. And be willing to listen to the person who jumped over you. This happens commonly with shift workers; you might have to clarify who can decide things when mgmt. isn’t around. Sometimes there is a very good reason to skip the approved chain and ask the closest person; sometimes it’s just the ‘if mom says no ask dad’ phenomenon.

  207. Anonymous for this*

    My husband and I are strongly considering moving to his home country so our kids can grow up there. He currently works for a tech company as an engineer. Options for jobs in his country are available, but more limited than where we live now. We want to find out if his company would allow him to continue working for it outside the US. He knows that there is another employee who was allowed to do this. When do you think would be the best time to bring this up? He doesn’t want to do it prematurely and make them think he needs to be replaced if they say no, but at the same time we would only leave if he had a job secured from them or another company.

    1. CAA*

      One thing to know is that just because they have somebody working overseas in country X doesn’t mean they can or will let your husband work in country Y. He first needs to find out if they already have facilities or people working in his country. If not, then he needs to do some research to find out the financial consequences to the company for having an employee there. The company’s finance department will have to figure out how to withhold and remit the appropriate country and locality taxes for whatever jurisdiction the employee will live in, and they also have to comply with whatever labor laws exist there and possibly even pay corporate taxes in his country. Just figuring that stuff out and then deciding whether they’re willing to spend the time and money to do it can be a huge hurdle.

      Some companies turn a blind eye and just kind of pretend they don’t actually know where the remote employee is, but that has risks. If his country’s government finds out he’s working remotely for a U.S. company and starts imposing legal requirements, it’ll be a lot easier for them to let him go than start complying.

      Another option is to use a staffing firm that handles international project teams. He could become an employee of the staffing firm and then they are responsible for all the legal requirements in country, billing the U.S. employer an hourly rate. They’re not likely to agree to this unless he’s a superstar employee they really cannot afford to lose.

      As for when to bring it up, I think he could mention the idea to his manager now as a possibility he’s thinking about and see what reaction he gets.

      1. Anonymous for this*

        Thanks for your input. The company does have a presence in his country, so presumably there is a knowledge of employment practices and financial and tax implications. It is however in a different department (sales vs. engineering). The regional headquarters is in yet another country. Given that, I suspect the hurdle would be the difference in time zone (+9h) and how to convince the company that this is not a huge inconvenience/mess (which sounds like a hard sell).

        1. CAA*

          Well, I’d say you’re about 10 steps ahead just because they have sales people already there. That’s actually very encouraging and makes it much more likely that they would be able to say yes.

          I have had software engineers working away from their teams at -9h and +11h. The one who is at +11h has been doing it successfully for over 3 years now, and she is in a country that has a Sunday to Thursday work week. This works because she’s extremely reliable and productive, and she’s also very committed to this job. She attends a lot of meetings that are in the middle of the night for her, and I know that she misses some family events because of work. For our part, we make every effort to end meetings earlier than midnight her time and we never schedule anything with her on a Friday as that’s her weekend. I also try to give her projects she can do on her own, but that’s not always possible.

          I think if your husband can commit to working hours that overlap at least half of his U.S. colleagues’ day and if he attends and participates in meetings regularly during those times, then this would probably work. It’s going to be a question of whether or not his manager and team are willing to deal with the inconvenience.

  208. Aurion*

    For various reasons, I’m trying to curb my habit of cursing a blue streak. I work in a rather casual environment where f-bombs and other curses are dropped with impunity so long as we don’t swear at other people (“f-this” is fine, “f-you” is not). If you were trying to become more, for lack of a better word, professional in your demeanor even when a more casual demeanor is totally accepted, how did you go about it? Did you up your polish in all aspects (clothes, makeup, language, body language, etc), or just choose one to work on? How did you resist falling back to old habits?

    1. Biff*

      I find that making sure I’m reading CLEAN books, watching clean films (the BBC is usually good) and avoiding hanging out with Blue Streak Benny, as well as rereading all my online posts and removing swear words helps a LOT.

    2. whichsister*

      I went from working in a manufacturing environment to working in a College of Business. In manufacturing, I could count on some one getting cussed out in a meeting daily. I have picked up some colorful expressions. At my going away party one guy said he would never forget the time I called our project manager a bastard in staff meeting. (I was the only female on the management team….)

      Then I switched to clean living… so to speak. Fortunately, most situations were meetings were I had a few minutes to think before speaking, although when I was lecturing in class, I had to be more careful.

      I hadn’t thought about how clothing would make a difference, but it is possible. I went from wearing jeans, work boots and t-shirts, to dressy slacks, pumps, and makeup. So maybe it did help from the outside in.

      1. Aurion*

        Ooh, I should clarify: I’m working on curbing swearing in all aspects of my life, though since my coworkers are the curse-ers I meet most frequently they’re the worst influence on my trying to kick this habit. I have enough presence of mind to not swear in a meeting or when talking to my boss, because the pace of those meetings are much slower, but it’s such an ingrained habit now that I’m having a hard time to not just drop off a “oh, f-” at random off-the-cuff moments in my personal and professional life when I’m not “on”, in front of important people, or otherwise have a few seconds to measure out responses.

    3. Louise*

      Habits take three weeks to build and three days to break! I’d start with one and reward yourself. If you make it through a day/week without swearing, buy yourself that brownie kind of thing. You could also do a self-managed swear jar ($1 to charity every time you swear or something like that). Trying to do everything at once can be super overwhelming and make it more likely that you’ll quit. Good luck!

    4. AdAgencyChick*

      The most important thing I learned from reading “The Power of Habit” is that it’s FAR easier to replace a bad habit with a different habit than it is to simply stop doing the bad habit.

      This worked really well for me when I decided I needed to stop saying the word “retarded.” A coworker of mine — nicest human being on the planet — had a baby with Down’s, and I realized that I could never, never use that word as a pejorative ever again. He was out on paternity leave for a couple of weeks, so I used those two weeks to train myself to say the word “asinine” every time I wanted to say “retarded.”

      It worked — probably the best luck I’ve ever had changing a bad habit, actually. I still ALWAYS say “asinine” and the baby is now a nine-year-old (god, that makes me feel old). Granted, I wasn’t trying to stop saying ALL curse words, but I bet you’d have success either replacing one curse at a time, or trying to replace multiple curse words with the same inoffensive but fun-to-say word.

  209. PersistentCat*

    Hi!
    I’m interested in hearing any advice anyone cares to offer…
    I started my job a year ago, and I was very excited because I could finally lead continuous improvement projects, which was a major career goal I had (have). However, once I started, I found that there was a toxic individual, with far-reaching influence and responsibilities, with whom I have had several run-ins with, leading to being isolated from projects I should be leading, if not a general support for said project. In addition, instead of standardizing and improving processes, I have been set to firefighting the results of these inefficient processes, which is incredibly time consuming. Business needs are such that there really doesn’t seem to be much time to pause and reconsider before leaping into the fray. There is a general disorganization and constant changing of priorities that makes it incredibly hard to predict a schedule for the day, forget the week or a month.
    Overall, I find myself demoralized and burnt out, and it’s only been a year. My supervisor is in the same situation, and he’s been coping by working 70+ hours a week, and living a generally unhealthy/unbalanced life. I don’t have 70, or even 60, hours to give to this job. I can barely do 50 and meet my other commitments.
    Basically, does anyone have any advice for dealing with this kind of a cluster-f###? I’m sure it’s not unique, but this is really the first time I’ve been in a work place like this, and I want to stay, despite some of the issues. The owner is paying my tuition at 100%, and that plus the salary are a huge incentive to me to figure out how to make this work. Time-management advice, or how to maintain focus, or really anything?
    Thank you in advance!

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      I lead some continuous improvement projects as one of my roles. You probably know this already, but you gotta dive into the muck and play politics as well. It can take years, but keep at it. Expand your influence by helping others solve their problems. One day, there’s a going to be a crisis and the higher-ups (if they’re competent) will realize that when they give it to Toxic McToxicface, the crisis is perpetual but if they give it to PersistentCat, the crisis get addressed.

      If the higher-ups aren’t competent, start looking for a new job.

  210. Anonyforthis*

    I finally spoke up about my coworker who has a specific task assigned to him whenever a new person joins the company, which he *NEVER* does. I approached my boss to say that perhaps we need to go over the process with the group because this task just never seems to get done (trying to be diplomatic, but not really). I do hope, once she checks all the tasks that he closed (and essentially lied about) she sees him a bit more clearly. He basically sucks and should not be working here. He lives like a hermit in his cubicle, and does not want to be bothered…so just leave!

  211. Jennifer's Thneed Needs a Job*

    Wow, it’s only noon and over 1000 comments? There must be a really lively sub-thread somewhere that I’ll be reading over lunch…

    Anyway, last week I asked people about resumes and Monster’s stupit “resume review service” that was about as useful as when Rachel from Card Services calls. And y’all were so helpful! Now I’m here to ask questions about cover letters.

    I should say going into this that I’m a well-seasoned employee and have written cover letters before, but now that I’m modifying one I’ve used before it seems awfully long and wall-o-texty. Five-six paragraphs aside from the opening and closing paras, and 6 bullet points. I’m thinking it’s excessive and I’m going to condense it some.

    (I was looking at a large agency’s site yesterday and they recommend to avoid cover letters. Yeah, right. No. I agree with Alison here, although I plan never to be a hiring manager. I can only customize my resume so much. I’m a tech writer. I do tech writer stuff. But with the cover letter I can refer to stuff in the job posting.)

    So. Having now written you 4 paragraphs (and this is the 5th) on the topic, I’m again going to put more specifics in a reply-to-self (heck, I’m going to share some or all of the letter) but I won’t mind a bit if anyone weighs in on this topic before I finish drafting anything.

    1. Jennifer's Thneed Needs a Job*

      Here’s my new opening paragraph, distilled down from I think 3 paras:

      Dear Hiring Manager,
      I’m an expert at gathering information from existing documents and Subject Matter Experts. Then I turn that information into the kind of documents you need. I’m a technical generalist, which lets me translate easily between tech-speak and business-speak. My aim is accurate, simple, clear writing.

      (the bullet points will come after this)

    2. Jennifer Needs a Thneed-Hunting Job*

      In previous positions, I have:
      • Written how-to documents and made videos aimed at both shop and management personnel.
      • Created and documented standard procedures to follow in case of laptop theft or loss.
      • Wrote a 13-chapter User Guide in 12 weeks.
      • Learned operational workflows and created accurate diagrams with Visio.

      (I’m brainstorming a better word than “Created” in that 2nd line, fwiw.)

      (Final paras to follow)

          1. Jennifer Thneed*

            Totally agree. I had just changed up this list and missed that word. Thankyou.

    3. Jennifer Hates Job-Hunting*

      And here’s my closing paras:

      I am able to tackle a steep learning curve successfully. I am an expert user of Word, Visio, SnagIt, MediaWiki and other software. Unfamiliar software just doesn’t slow me down.

      I look forward to hearing from you soon. My resume is attached and I have writing samples available. My contact information is below.

      (name, title, phone, email, LI, Indeed, all on separate lines)

    4. Jennifer Finds Job-Hunting Very Tiring*

      Oh, happily I just followed the “if you’re not getting interviews, read this” link and there’s a bunch of cover-letter-advice posts, which I’ll be reading today and this weekend. But I’m still up for any of y’all’s thoughts.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Okay, so you have some cool skills. But what you haven’t mentioned is:

        Why you want this job
        Why it’s a good fit for you/you’re a good fit for them
        How those skills relate to the role you’re applying for

        This is a great start but now you need to tell the employer why this means they should hire you.

        1. Jennifer Thneed*

          And this is where it gets tricky, because I’m usually replying to a very abbreviated job posting from a recruiting agency, for a project-based contract, and I don’t know who their client is. There’s often not much detail, just a list of desired skills … and often enough those are very soft skills, like the ability to get along with busy developers, or interact with multiple departments.

          Ramona, thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me. I hope you see this reply. Today I’ll spend time reading that AAM posting I mentioned above. The tab is still open. I’m discouraged but I think eating breakfast will help with mood stuff.

  212. animaniactoo*

    GRRR. Last minute “Can you help with language for assembly instructions” is just a tad annoying when I discover that um… it’s so far off, and I’m trying to leave 15 minutes early due to scheduling conflicts at home.

    (Breathe. Breathe.)

    Trying to make myself remember that this part of covering for a high volume co-worker who is out and would have gotten this to me earlier. The problem is that it came from her boss who might not have gotten it to her any earlier and I might have ended up here anyway. Breathing. Off to make understandable instructions…

  213. Lefty*

    This may be an odd place to ask, but I can’t ask anyone “in real life” without declaring my job search… is anyone else having issues with USAjobs? It seems to have deleted all of my saved searches and I cannot use the “Contact Us” feature to ask them directly. I know the site has been plagued with problems in the past, but they usually put out an announcement.

    1. Jennifer's Helpful Thneed*

      I don’t know about that job board, but DICE has been having problems this week too. :(

      1. Lefty*

        So frustrating! I hope they get them both sorted out…

        I did find some social media posts about my problem, for anyone else in the same boat- look into “un-archiving” your searches. Even if you JUST made the search, it will now be an archived search.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      Thanks for passing this on. I’m a federal employee, have been doing some half-baked searches for several years, but am now thinking of really getting down to business, and have been considering renewing my account (it expired years ago). Since the feds stopped paying Monster to run it, I don’t think it’s been any easier to operate than it was before.

  214. Ramona Flowers*

    Please reassure me that it’s okay to have a bit of an off week when you usually rock at your job and are known for being awesomely productive. And you just had a bereavement.

    My work history was a mix of toxic jobs and freelancing until I landed at currentjob, which is awesome and a perfect fit. I have generally been a rock star. I took Monday off for a funeral, then went back as work is a positive distraction overall. I fortunately found myself between major projects so I’ve spent this week coasting a bit, making lots of lists, tidying out my desk drawers and faffing around a bit. I’m pretty sure it’s normal to have weeks like this even without the extenuating circumstances but I have some residual workplace ptsd and fear being Found Out. Nobody really knows I’ve been coasting as I manage my own time, I’m not behind on anything now (though I did miss one deadline by half a day the week of the death) and I can ‘get away with it’ but I’m having a hard time letting myself off the hook. Please talk some sense into me?

    1. Grabapple McGee*

      It happens.

      I find myself having a horrible day today. Due to a personal matter, I am distracted, sad, angry and I have a gazillion things I need to be doing to take care of it. But I am at work, at least for a little while longer (I’ll be off soon).

      I made an “absolustely must do!” list earlier this morning and made sure I handled each of those things. Payroll is important! People will be very angry with me if I don’t print their paychecks. :)

      Past that, anything that is not an “absolute must do” is getting pushed to next week and I am okay with that. By Monday I’ll be back on track, I’m sure.

      Everyone has times when they are off kilter. If you are an awesome employee, your company will understand. And that is IF it is brought up at all. You’ll likely find that nobody ever noticed.

    2. Michele*

      It happens to everyone. We all have events in our lives that throw us off kilter. Not only does it happen to everyone, it is OK to go to your boss and explain if you are dealing with a death or illness that you might need to shift some projects temporarily.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Thank you. I actually don’t even need to shift anything as the timing has worked out – which means I feel I’m covertly slacking as I haven’t actually needed to ask anyone.

        Might have to let myself just appreciate it. Thankfully we now have a bank holiday weekend in any case.

    3. JulieBulie*

      It’s cool, Ramona. It happens to everyone, it’s only temporary, the slower pace is recharging your batteries, and you’ll be your old self again next week.

  215. I want to break free*

    I am in the process of leaving my current job. I am actually thrilled about this, as there have been so many changes here over the past few years that it is no longer the job it was when I started. I haven’t put in my notice yet because I need to finalize some personal things before I can actually move on, but I feel like I have a horrible case of “senior-itis”.

    I’m still doing my job, and doing it well, but I do find myself daydreaming about life without this toxic relationship. I’m afraid that the longer I have to delay giving my notice, the less productive I will become. Does anyone have any ideas on how to keep that from happening? I basically have no oversight where I am, so it’s all up to me to keep myself motivated.

    You might wonder WHY I want to stay productive? Well, it is still my job, and I am being paid to do it — for now. Yes, first world problems, I know. Thank you for any suggestions!!

    1. New Window*

      I’m having very similar struggles. Mine is more of the “burned out to a crisp” type, but it still means it’s hard to get things done.

      1. Decide what you want your last day to be, if you haven’t already.
      2. Decide what day you will give your notice, if you haven’t already
      –>Also helpful: tell other people in non-work life these dates so that you say these dates aloud and an expectation is created. This can help s(tuff) get real.
      3. Think of it in terms of how not doing work will affect the people you do like.

      Embarrassment/Shame should be used as motivators only in a last ditch effort. But “What will people think of me if I don’t have XYZ clearly documented for them? If I leave this unfinished and they don’t know what to do?” can sometimes dig up those last few reserves of motivation.

  216. Jenna Crom*

    I work as an “Independent contractor” for a company that rents out large homes in a seasonal, touristy small town in Northern WI.
    Originally, my salary was based on 30-35 hours a week. According to my boss, we have no contract signed. However, 6 years ago when I started, I had to have a signed letter stating my pay and hours for my state health insurance. I have not gotten a raise since starting. When I asked about it last year, I was told it wasn’t in the budget. They company has since purchased/built 2 homes. This brings the property total to 18 properties I am managing. It was 4 when I started.
    My issue is that last summer I worked 3 months straight with no days off, and often 50 hours a week. I told my supervisor that I was not working that many hours again this summer. (My average in winter is 30 hours) She agreed to talk to our boss. The boss has decided no extra help is needed, and told her that we should expect to work the same sort of hours as last summer because that is the nature of the business. Further, he said if we want time off, we have to find someone to cover for us AND pay them out of our own pay. I told my supervisor that if that is true, I will be quitting. I have put a call into my boss, and am currently filling out applications.
    Thoughts?

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      You need a new job 5 years ago. Salary and ‘independent contractor’ don’t go together.

    3. fposte*

      Run like hell, and maybe look to the DOL, because it sounds like they were calling you an independent contractor when you legally were an employee. IC means they haven’t been paying into social security or unemployment for you, so it saves them money–possibly illegally.

        2. Beancounter Eric*

          Department of Labor.

          And yeah, they probably have been violating contractor/employee regulations.

    4. Jessesgirl72*

      I am pretty sure there is always a need for property managers with experience in that area. Lots and lots of fishing and hunting rentals that need managed. Good luck on your job search!

    5. imakethings*

      This sounds illegal. If you’re hourly nonexempt, which part of me kind of thinks you are based on the 30 hr rule, you should be paid hourly + overtime, yes? Although, I’m unsure from your post whether you’re being paid a standard amount each week or an hourly and you just want an hourly increase. Additionally, paying out of your own pocket is not acceptable. Push back. Hard.

    6. JulieBulie*

      Filling out applications is a good idea. Get out of there as soon as possible. They are taking advantage of you. Take the valuable experience you’ve gained by working there, and bring it to a new employer who will really value you.

    7. JulieBulie*

      sorry for the extra comment – i forgot to click the “notify me of follow up” box.

    8. Ann O.*

      You’re not an independent contractor, first of all. There are clear standards that they in no way meet.

      So yes, find a new job. Then the other question is whether you want to talk to an employment lawyer or other relevant party to sue for the benefits they should have been paying you or report them for labor violations. That is a decision that only you can make.

  217. Kinsley M.*

    I have a question about what to say/how to cover up that you’re going to interviews. My husband is in a field that moving up usually means moving to a new city. While the first couple rounds of interviews were phone and/or Skype, he’s now a finalist for three positions all in different states. The first one is next week over a Wednesday/Thursday. The other two haven’t been specifically scheduled yet, but they are in the upcoming week or two. He said a family issue for next weeks interview, but what can he say for future ones that don’t immediately tip off someone? For what it’s worth, he’s going to attempt to schedule the other two on a Monday or Friday where he could possibly just say long weekend, but otherwise what can he say?

    1. Grabapple McGee*

      Doctor appointments… dentist appointments…. vision check…. “Well I decided to take care of all these health checks I’ve been putting off so….”

      Then I guess there’s always waiting until the morning of, calling in and claiming food poisoning….

      1. Kinsley M.*

        He can’t really claim appointments to take off a full day or two days though. Like his one next week, he’ll be 1000 miles away for two days. The usual excuses don’t really work for this.

    2. Not Karen*

      Why does he have to say anything? Why can’t he just say “I’d like to take Thursday off”? I never tell my manager what I’m doing on my days off.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        This. As long as you don’t have to get PTO approved far in advance, just take a vacation day, no explanation.

      2. MWKate*

        Good managers don’t ask. Sadly, there are lots of them that feel they need information on why exactly someone is not going to be at work. (My boss asks specifically what is wrong when you call in sick “Is it like a head cold or a stomach bug?”)

        If you do want to give an excuse – doctor’s appointment, friend/family coming to town, need to take your mom/grandma/child/great aunt Ester to the Dr.

        Good luck to your husband!

    3. Daria Grace*

      I think being vague as possible is best. If you get into specifics (like the kind of medical appointment you claim you’re going to) there’s a risk of getting specific followup questions about how your health is doing or later accidentally contradicting yourself

  218. commenting from work*

    Hi everyone. Frequent commenter, not wanting to use my usual handle here.

    I’m having some trouble focusing in my workspace. I recently moved just across the room to a different desk which is a lot more open. My previous desk had a wall separating it from another one in back, and a chest-height bookshelf separating it from the walkway on the left. My current desk has nothing separating it from the walkway on the right, or people coming up from behind, and people also wait and chat in the space right behind or in front of me frequently because the head of our division’s office is right in front of me. I’m ten feet away but feel much more exposed and less able to put my head down and work on a project that requires concentration. I’ve been switching tasks a lot and being sort of inefficient lately, and I was only able to get some writing done today because the office is so empty and quiet Fridays.

    This is having a real effect on my ability to get work done. Telework is allowed in my office, but it’s supposedly for “situational” reasons (e.g. midday appointments, weather, transportation issues), not routine getting work done. Some supervisors use it frequently and routinely but mine really wants to play by the rules. This means I can’t just say “can I work from home tomorrow to get some writing done?” even though I’d like to.

    Has anyone else dealt with the switch from a more protected to more open and bustling workspace? How did you get your focus back?

    1. JulieBulie*

      I didn’t get my focus back, really. I felt nervous and exposed and constantly distracted. I spoke to my boss about my issues and asked if, just once in a blue moon, I could work from home if there was a special deadline or something. And I was careful not to abuse it.

      On occasion I would even take my laptop into the break room, because outside of lunch time it was quieter in there than it was near my desk!

      Over time, we started getting cubicles… one person at a time (don’t ask), and because my boss knew of my problem, I got the first one.

      But I also searched for a new job, and eventually got a better one. (There were a lot of other issues there besides the seating arrangements.)

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Would a privacy screen help? Headphones? Can you use anything to separate on the right or is there not space?

      I feel your pain. I sit close to a wall but like you I’m near a senior person’s office – except theirs is behind me. Do you absolutely have to stay there?

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      I’m about to move into a more-exposed cubicle myself, and I had a chance to go look at it this week, and I really hate it, but there’s nothing I can do about it for the moment (the cube is right next to a walkway, and I’ve been assigned a space across from the office motormouth who comes with her own professionally-related high-volume foot traffic). I’m in a “pod” with 3 other employees, and we’re all facing outward, so to speak, away from each other, and toward each corner of the pod, but IMO the cube walls on one side just don’t extend far enough past the desk edge to prevent me from being distracted by my vocal neighbor. So, in addition to headphones, I’m going to try doing two things to create a “wall” effect anyway. 1. On one side of me, there’s a set of built-in cabinets/drawers. I’m going to start opening the cabinet “door” and just hang my coat/jacket from the top of the door rather than stuff it inside (no one cares what I do with my coat). Doing this should “extend” the width of the door outward so I don’t see the employee on my left should I turn. 2. On the other side, I have a 3-month-at-a-glance cardboard wall calendar I’m taping to outer edge of *that* cube wall to extend that side. I’m pretty sure no one will care how that looks, either. Good luck.

    4. Kerr*

      If you find a solution, please share! I will be moving to a more exposed desk soon, and I’m worried about my ability to concentrate. Nothing like feeling like a goldfish in a high-traffic area, right?

      Solutions I plan to try are privacy “shields” (screen? plant? giant statuette?) to create a visual and psychological barrier. Could you get a tall indoor plant to put next to one of the open sides?

  219. Rachel Y.*

    I need to vent here so please near with me. The owner of my company tore his knee up playing sports ago and had surgery last week. Because he is confined to his home, I was asked to go out there with my boss to discuss covering for him a an event. I was looking forward to this because I like the man, and I was anxious to see his great big 20 or so room house.

    So we show up and are greeted at the door by his wife. The living room seemed a little cluttered but not too awful, but when she directs us to a room towards the back I realize the place is a frigging pig sty. I mean take boxes that looked like they had been there for a month, dirty drapes, dust on every shelf, stains on the furniture and the filthiest carpet ever. Because it was raining when we got there we both took our shoes off at the door. My socks were filthy within minutes. When it was time to leave, I didn’t even want to put them back in my boots. I walked out shoeless and when I got to my car I removed them before I put my boots on. I am not even going to bother trying to launder them. The owner didn’t seem to care how gross his place was. he made some joke about the “maids day off” as we were clearing room on the couch to sit down and that was that. I am more mad at my direct boss, who told me she had been there once before he was injured and knew it was a filthy mess back then. I asked her why she didn’t tell me this, so I could at least wear old clothes and she said I had to see it myself to believe it. Even though I won’t probably ever go back there; I am still cringing. My boss should be back working in the office in 2 or 3 weeks and I am wondering just how to deal with it. Any thoughts and comments.

    1. fposte*

      Gross, but I don’t see that you need to deal with it. Pretend you never saw it and move on.

    2. Camellia*

      You ignore it. It’s their business. If you have to go back, wear old clothes and leave your shoes on, or else have a really good excuse why you can’t go and so Direct Boss will just have to fill you in/get you up to speed.

    3. Jessesgirl72*

      You don’t live there, so what is to deal with?

      I’m not even sure why you are mad. The place was dirty. You won’t probably ever have to go there again.

      1. Rachel Y*

        I still can’t totally put my finger on why this makes me so mad except it was so gross. I want to be fair but it seems that it was very disrespectful. He is not totally immobile and he could have done all of this in the living room which was not quite so filthy. Also he draws a 200K salary and his wife is also on the payroll even though as far as I know she has never spent one hour conducting company business. he drives a Range Rover and a BMW 7 series convertible and vacationed in Antigua last month so he would have no problem paying a cleaning lady.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          Sounds like it could be hoarding disorder. I’m not saying it’s not gross, but it would be pointless to see it as a personal slight that he didn’t clean up.

        2. The OG Anonsie*

          I mean, people have different tolerances for cleanliness. My dad is one of these types and has no issue living like that, it drives me nuts to be in his place but he doesn’t even notice it. It’s not disrespectful for someone to not overhaul clean their house while injured (or hire out a cleaning lady, no matter what their income) just for you to come by for a meeting. For one, they probably don’t see it as being particularly messy and don’t see it as something that would make you uncomfortable, and second you were only there for a really brief period of time. If you were a guest staying there or something, maybe. But visiting for a meeting, you’re just gonna have to let it go.

        3. Jessesgirl72*

          I’m not sure what his salary has to do with anything, or his wife’s.

          He doesn’t mind living in what you consider filth. He wasn’t obligated to clean up for you or for anyone, assuming he even notices it much.

          You liked him before, and you liked working for him. But you aren’t owed anything special here, and if you can’t just forget about it, I guess the only thing you can “do” is to start looking for another job. But you were only exposed to something distasteful- and only very briefly- not dangerous or abusive or even disrespectful.

        4. Wendy Darling*

          I think you just do the “I never have to go there again” dance and burn your socks and then let it go.

        5. fposte*

          I don’t see it as disrespectful. It’s disrespectful if he kept *your* house that way, but this is his house.

          There are things you don’t like so much about your boss. There are things *all* of us don’t like so much about our bosses. Not all of us are lucky enough that those things happen at the boss’s house where we almost never have to deal with them. You don’t have to hang out with the guy, but I’m not seeing this as the moral thing it seems like you were.

    4. Dienna Howard*

      I feel that you’re having an issue separating how you see the company owner as a person compared with the condition of his house. I realize that it’ll be hard to see him the same way again now that you’ve seen how he lives, but he is not his house. Put the thought of his house out of sight, out of mind.

    5. Mary Lynn From Maryland*

      You had me when you had to take your shoes off. I cringe at the thought of my co-workers and bosses seeing me in socked feet. Yecch.

  220. Junior Dev*

    What are your thoughts on impostor syndrome and the discourse around it?

    I saw a great article by Anil Dash responding to an article by Gina Trapani, both had interesting things to say on the topic, and I see them as complementary rather than opposed. (Link in following comment)

    Basically, Gina said “instead of repsonding to impostor syndrome with a declaration of how awesome you are, it’s important to realize that everyone feels like a fraud sometimes, and that means you’re doing it right.” And Anil responded with some comments on how hard it is for women and people of color in tech to have out value recognized at work, and we should keep trying to believe in our own awesomeness.

    I liked the original article, because I often feel like the discourse around women in tech is that we have to respond to our feelings of self doubt and marginalization with extreme self-confidence, and that doesn’t feel authentic to my experience. I’m relatively new at programming, I’m socially anxious, and the type of “lean in” mentality that I have to be perfectly assertive at all times doesn’t match my experience, personality, or work culture.

    What do you think?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Hmm. Everyone feels like a fraud sometimes but to different extents and for different reasons that need different solutions. If it gets homogenised into one thing, that can get lost, I think.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Also, I prefer a different solution to either declaring your awesomeness or this alternative. Which is to ask: whose voice is that? And why is it saying that?

        Which is how I discovered that the feelings I thought I had about my career were actually how my estranged father felt about his career.

    2. Wrench Turner*

      It’s hard. Sometimes with my day job, I feel I have no business being here among these geniuses that can show up and seemingly magically make things work. I’ve told a few I wish I could just download their brains. Be humble, open to failure, and always trying to be better. I’m certified in my field now, less experienced, but proven to be as qualified as anyone. That said, I tell them (and myself in the mirror) I’m not trying to be better than you, just better than me, yesterday.

      With my night job, art, sometimes people have really emotional responses to my work – “wow, that’s really great, I love this,’ etc. It’s hard to feel worthy of the praise they give it, even though that’s exactly what I hoped someone would see or feel in what I make – especially if I didn’t make it for them. If I just made something for me and someone else responds so strongly to it (positively, anyway) it’s hard to feel worthy of that. So I thank them, try to enjoy the contribution I made to their life (and my wallet) and make the next thing live up to that.

      You’re not an imposter. You’re here for a reason. Make me proud.

    3. OldJules*

      I think what is important is to be the authentic you. What is important to you? Where do you want to go with this?

      We all feel like an impostor some time or the other. But what is important is to see your contribution to the overall objective. There will always be someone smarter, better and faster than us. The key is to accept who we are and be deliberate about who we want to be. Sometimes, we are so busy going at it a million mile a minute that we forget the big picture.

    1. writelhd*

      I feel like I *used* to end up bouncing between the two extremes sometimes–either feeling imposter syndrome, or, feeling super cocky–and not much time in the middle. But experience has tempered that a great deal.

      Moving from “employee” to “manager” also helped me get over a lot of that–suddenly I’m delegating tasks and instruction other people, which takes time and focus, so I don’t have time to indulge in the delusions about myself that both self-doubt and overconfidence provide, I have to just assume I have a basic level of knowing how to do things so I can instruct and mange others, and incorporate feedback as I receive it.

      Framing things as “growth” vs “fixed” mindset was a powerful tool my boss dropped on the managers that also helped me look my imposter syndrome in a new way. Often buried in self-doubt is a fixed mindset: a belief that a person’s ability is inborn and unchanging, so failure or mistakes are indicative of a fundamental deficit in ability, a frightening “truth” which must be avoided at all costs. That’s now how learning works, though. Shifting instead to a growth mindset: the understanding that success is the result of hard work, planning, and experience, not inherent ability, and that failure and mistakes offer learning opportunity that can add to a person’s knowledge and lead to future success that could never have been achieved otherwise.

  222. Crystal Lake*

    Why do job candidates from out of state not include in their cover letters why they wish to relocate? Or are they advised not to? I’m reading these applications wondering if they realize they applied for a job across the country.

    1. Michele*

      Is it a position that people would typically relocate for? In my field, above a certain level (and a lower level than you might think) it is common for people to relocate and for the company to pay for it. I see out of state resumes all the time, but it is rare for someone to say why they want to relocate. It is (in this field anyway) frowned upon because that makes the cover letter about what the company will do for them instead of what they will do for the company.

    2. Student*

      Just ask them. And/or clarify your job add: “No relocation costs will be provided.” or some such.

      This varies by job industry – in my industry, it’s assumed the company will likely pay to relocate you; nearly all hires are non-locals. I know that’s not the case in most other industries. There’s also the rise of telecommuting – some people expect that to be an option for some office-based jobs, especially for programming. Other people are just assuming that they’ll have to cover the cost themselves and are prepared to do that for a job.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Agree. In their shoes I wouldn’t put it in the cover letter for the reasons Michele states above.

        If they’re strong candidates on paper, you can ask, and if you get an answer that indicates they haven’t thought it through, you end the process there.

    3. paul*

      We wish to relocated because employment matters and we need a job.

      I mean, for most of us that’s the breaks.

    4. anonamasaurus*

      I’m currently looking to leave one of a very few jobs in my niche skill area within commuting distance, so I need to be looking nationwide. For me its less about where I would end up (although that matters some) and more about a job that is the right fit for my skills/level.

      Its common in my field to move, but more 1-level up than I am or would likely get. Sometimes I reference a connection to the place if I have one, but more often I reference that I’m excited about the opportunity (and why I’m a good fit) and able to relocate with minimal fuss. Perhaps unsurprisingly its been a slow process with few interviews.

    5. The OG Anonsie*

      If I’m relocating regardless of the job, I’ll say that. If I’m applying to jobs all over and will relocate based on where I’m hired, there’s really nothing to explain. Clearly, if someone is applying to the position, they are willing or planning to go to where the position is located. Screen them the same way you would any candidate.

    6. MWKate*

      I think sometimes people are just looking for a job, and where it is doesn’t really matter to them.

      Also, I think by putting something down you run the risk of the hiring manager not seeing it as a good enough reason.

    8. Junior Dev*

      It could be a personal reason that’s not something they want to share. “I want to be closer to my mentally ill sibling in case there’s a crisis.” “My grandparent is dying of cancer and I’m trying to spend as much time as possible with them.” “I’m trying to get as far as possible from my ex.”

    9. Buu*

      Might be a personal reason and they don’t want to bring it up in a letter. I’d just make sure it says in the job ad your relocation policy then if anyone is promising and you’re still not sure…ask?

  223. Michele*

    I am training someone who has been in our department for a couple of years and is trying to learn new skills so he can get promoted. I have never seen anyone work so hard or learn so fast. Anytime I tell him how well he is doing, he gets embarrassed and literally blushes. He just came into my office to tell me he is going to work on the project this weekend, and I had to tell him that it wasn’t necessary because we are almost done and it isn’t due for a month. Where can I get 10 more like him?

  224. Jules the First*

    I had an unexpectedly good day at work today. I think there were two precipitating factors – one, I woke up yesterday thinking that was the day and I was going to get fired, only to realize that I was excited rather then upset (I didn’t get fired) and two, I had a lovely follow up with the recruiter who sent me on a horrendous interview last night where she admitted that while they don’t want to hire me (yay, because I don’t want that job!), she was looking forward to my input on what kind of person she should send them in future because apparently everyone keeps telling her I know the industry better than anyone else.

    And everyone keeps telling me I should talk to HR about my nightmare boss, but I haven’t because I don’t know where to start, and lo the universe is looking out for me – the lovely lady hot desking next to me today turned out to be from HR and asked some probing questions after my boss left for the day, so now I know a) HR isn’t oblivious to the problem and b) who to talk to.

    Even better? It’s a long weekend here, and I’ve booked Tuesday off as well. I’ll be meeting a friend for coffee, then heading to an interview I’m rather excited about, then off to the stables to play with my pony for a few hours, followed by dinner with friends. It’s going to be an awesome weekend!

    1. Alice*

      I love that playing with your pony is part of your to-do list. Have fun and enjoy all these things going well!

  225. Fire*

    Today in OH MY GOD WHAT???????

    I work for a small restaurant in the Midwest, usually delivery but today I was in shop/phones, and there was a call from a cell phone with an Alabama area code, a bunch of young sounding people chatting in the background, asking if we sold n-words. Like, as slaves. WHAT???????????

    I hung up without saying anything but in hindsight I should’ve sworn at them. I definitely wouldn’t have gotten in trouble but I was At Work so my brain was in Don’t You Dare Swear At A Customer No Matter What They Do mode –
    cause customers do do a lot of things to us that would warrant swearing at them, but nothing THAT bad. That’s waaaaaay over the line.

    1. Fire*

      I’d also like to add we have an amusing name and sell t-shirts with our phone number on it that sells very well with tourists/out of towners so it’s not weird that someone out of state would call. I’ve definitely gotten phone calls from people like OH MY GOD I CAN’T BELIEVE THIS IS A REAL RESTAURANT when they saw the tshirt on the street.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      !!!!!

      I wouldn’t waste another second thinking about these creatures. It’s highly unlikely anything you said to them over the phone would make them rethink themselves.

    3. Wendy Darling*

      I actually think hanging up silently was PERFECT. Like, clearly their goal was to offend and get a rise out of you, so just *click* was probably deeply unsatisfying for them.

  226. Amber Rose*

    So I guess for everyone hating their job/having a bad day today, it could be worse, you could be at the Fyre Festival.

    Reality is so strange. Do I even need fiction anymore.

  227. fishy*

    Could I get some advice on a coworker situation?

    A new coworker of mine constantly watches cartoons. Like, literally all day she has cartoons playing on her computer. She wears headphones, so it doesn’t disturb anyone else, but I can’t understand how she can concentrate like that. I guess she could be one of those people who concentrates better with something going on in the background… but I swear every time I look over at her, she’s sitting there staring at her cartoons, doing nothing.

    It’s true that we haven’t had as much work this week, so this is maybe more understandable than it would be at other times, but there are still always things we could be doing. For example, today I was done with my tasks for the week, so I spent the day familiarizing myself with our new client’s procedures.

    Should I say something to her about it? To our manager? Or should I just let her do what she does and only address it if it turns out to definitely cause a problem in her productivity?

    1. JulieBulie*

      “Let her” … are you her supervisor? If not, then it’s not a matter of allowing her. It’s just minding your own business.

      There might be better ways to develop rapport with this new employee, rather than judging her.

      If you are in a position to assign work to her, then do that because it sounds like she needs more – but otherwise, let this play out on its own. If there is a problem with her work, your manager will know and you can decide at that time if you want to be an informer.

      1. fishy*

        Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that I had any authority to stop her from doing things. I tend to have a lead role on the projects we share, but I’m not her supervisor.

        I guess I just worry that she won’t get her work done – even when she has work assigned, she doesn’t seem to be very thorough and seems to spend more time doing non-work-related things. She, I, and one other person are pretty much the entire team for the projects we work on and I want to make sure the work is done well… I thought maybe since she was new she might not be aware that this isn’t how we tend to do things in our office – once we’re done with our defined tasks there are always lower-priority ongoing things we can do as well. But I guess I should mind my own business.

        1. Colette*

          I started with the thought that her performance is hers to own (and your manager’s to manage), but since she’s new, I think you can give your manager a discreet heads up, if you have good rapport with her. “I know this isn’t mine to manage, but I worry that coworker might be distracted by the cartoons she watches”.

          But on,y if you have a good rapport with your manager.

        2. JulieBulie*

          I should not have been so snarky to you. It’s legitimate to worry about her effect on the team. I have worked with some real deadbeats, and the lucky thing is that in a healthy working environment, they aren’t kept around for very long.

          Depending on the kind of rapport you might have with her, if it were me, I might be tempted to suggest to your coworker directly that she needs to spend more time on her work and less time with the cartoons.

          Or engage her in additional work if that’s an option, or let her know if things that she’s “completed” need more attention from her to be done properly. But I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell your manager. At least not yet.

          Unless your manager asks. Then you can say that you’re not sure that she spends all of her office time on work-related tasks. Do not cover for her.

          On the other hand (I feel like I’m babbling), if you’re a project lead and the quality of the work is unacceptable, you can show it to your manager and say that you are concerned. Years ago, I told my boss that I was having to redo someone else’s work so that we could make our deadline. My boss investigated on his own and fired that guy. At first I felt terrible. Then I realized how much worse it would have been to continue working with him.

          I would leave the cartoons out of it, though, when talking to your manager. If it wasn’t cartoons, it would be something else, and that isn’t the point. The point is that she isn’t doing her work properly.

          Odds are that someone else will catch her watching the cartoons and complain to a manager. It’s probably better if that person isn’t you.

          Sorry again, fishy. It’s a legitimate concern. I don’t know why I was such a grouch to you.

          1. Anonymous Educator*

            I would leave the cartoons out of it, though, when talking to your manager. If it wasn’t cartoons, it would be something else, and that isn’t the point. The point is that she isn’t doing her work properly.

            I feel this has been a recurring theme on AaM. You’re absolutely right, though—it’s ultimately about whether she does the work or not. The cartoons aren’t the relevant matter. If someone wants to goof off, she’ll goof off.

          2. fishy*

            Thank you! Maybe I can say something to her… she seems to like me well enough, since she talks and jokes around with me a lot. (Actually too much, to the point where it’s pretty distracting. Which is maybe a bigger problem than watching non-work-related things at work, come to think of it… pretty sure I’m not the only one who’s distracted, either.) But I’m not sure if she’d take me seriously, since she also says I have no sense of humor. Hm.

            Well, probably I’ll just keep an eye on her work to make sure she’s doing okay and (gently) point out to her if she overlooks anything. You’re right, I don’t think this is to the point where I need to bring my manager into it.

            And I probably shouldn’t have emphasized the cartoons so much. It would be just as much (or as little) of a problem if she was reading news articles all day or whatever. And I actually like watching cartoons myself, just not at work :)

        3. The OG Anonsie*

          I would say MYOB until you’re on a project where you rely on her to do on time, thorough work. Then just check in with her really carefully and keep an eye on what’s happening so you can keep her on track if she gets off it. It may be you’ve been unlucky enough to happen to catch her on odd breaks every time so your perspective is off– especially if she’s someone who doesn’t take breaks away from her desk while most people do, so she’s the only one you typically see not working. Maybe she takes fewer breaks for longer times but is still getting things done throughout the day. And maybe she’s a procrastinator in a bad way and will donk up your projects as you fear!

          Essentially, keep an eye open for problems in case they arise, but don’t proactively complain unless you see her actually causing a problem. Because if she’s not creating issues (still getting things done when she needs to and to expected quality) then there isn’t anything for you to worry about regardless of how she’s using her time.

    2. Daria Grace*

      As annoying as it is, if it’s not impacting your ability to do your job, I’d probably leave it alone. If it is having a big impact on her productivity, that will probably become obvious to her manager soon enough and have consequences for her performance review/ongoing employment soon enough

  228. Wrench Turner*

    I wish my boss was a more proactive manager, actively assigning jobs instead of just letting us pick and follow up whenever. I don’t want to accidentally steal someone’s work – especially if it’s close to their home, which I’ve done, and was apologetic. I never know if I’m doing too much, or not enough, or doing it the correct way. I guess sometimes bosses really can be too casual, huh?
    Once again: Leadership & Management are not the same thing.

  229. Dissed by a reference*

    Not all that long ago I was applying for a post-advanced degree instructor position at the university I graduated from last year. Before I submitted my application, I checked in with all of the people I wanted to use as references and they all agreed to be a reference.

    I recently got a letter saying I didn’t get the position, which prompted me to inquire as to how I might improve my applications for future similar positions. I was told that I should check in with my references to learn more. Now I’ve written that kind of polite let down as part of my job for many years, and I think I can read through the lines to see that one or more of my references didn’t give me a good reference. I’m disinclined to check in again with these references for more feedback, I know I should, but I’m very uncomfortable about it.

    I’m flummoxed as to why people who agreed to give references would give a poor reference. That seems kind of like a sh*t move.

    1. Wrench Turner*

      Too many questions. I’ve never heard of an “ask your references” response like that. So ask! What bananas stuff did that potential employer ask them. I wouldn’t say they gave a shite reference without knowing first.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      Well, it may be that, or it may be that one of the interviewers latched onto something one of your references said and interpreted it as a statement of weakness, even though your reference didn’t mean it that way. Something like that happened to me a few years ago, and I didn’t get the job as a result–even though I was the unanimous choice of the hiring committee, they were overruled by a senior executive. I found all this out by talking to the hiring manager privately a couple months later. After that, whenever I asked people to be a reference, I made it clear I needed them to be on “Team Tabby” and if they couldn’t, in good conscience, give me a glowing reference, it was fine by me if they wanted to pass. It might be a good idea to review whether any of your references had ever served as a reference before this point. If they hadn’t (and I suspect this was true in my case), you may want to take this into account, and seek out references in future who HAVE had experience dealing with those reference check phone calls. I haven’t updated my references in a while, but when I do, I am going to try to pick people who know how to navigate that conversation to put me in the best light. I’m sorry this happened to you. I can totally understand your desire to find out who the “culprit” is, but yet not want to have that conversation, b/c it would certainly be awkward. The only way I could see doing this would be to call or see each person individually and ask him/her to run your through the reference call, the questions asked, and how the reference answered them. The hardest part for you will be trying to stay in neutral mode as you hear them go through their answers, b/c that is the only way you will get the full truth. When you’re done, you’ll have to thank them for being helpful, even though, at that point, you may want to yell “HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT?!?” I’m sorry this happened to you.

  230. Cute Li'l UFO*

    Well, the interview went fine after it was all said and done. One of the interviewers had a very strange habit of rolling her eyes while she was thinking–so of course I was terrified that she was rolling her eyes at me but I realized that it wasn’t just me. Still, just a very odd thing. I had a moment or two myself explaining that while [college] had fashion in the name they specialized in other areas as well and that my move from retail was not a whim but something I moved through with the ultimate goal to move into my field. I was also unseated by one of the portfolio pieces they really liked that I worked on in response to my own experiences in LGBT spaces. Something deep inside me snapped and I felt this feeling of “now you’ve done it, now you’ve given them reason to pry and deny your identity!”

    Of course, that didn’t happen but it put me in a funk for a little bit. The Accounts Team really did like my work and sense of style. They asked a lot of questions pertaining to my process in design and how I work. After taking some steps back I really feel much better.

    Now I just keep my fingers crossed for what I hope will be an offer! It’s agonizing but especially so since I got a wicked spider bite last night :(

  231. Ramona Flowers*

    Your career in AAM-style headlines?

    Might repost next week as I’ve left this a bit late, but: if you had to describe your work and/or school history as a series of funny, ridiculous or horrifying AAM-style post titles, what would some of them be?

    Here are some of mine:
    -My office hasn’t been cleaned in at least three years and it smells bad, but I’m the only female and I don’t want to make this my job
    -University friend namedropped me without asking and won’t stop daily calls to my boss
    -My new manager started two weeks ago and still hasn’t said a word to anyone in the team he’s meant to be managing
    -Coworkers who leave trash in your desk drawers, office dog keeps eating our resources, and more
    -Grandboss is making me send secret reports about my boss
    -Should I have warned my replacement about my toxic boss, new hire badmouths colleagues on his blog, and more

    1. JulieBulie*

      – My female boss is envious of my nipples
      – My coworkers are actively sabotaging the project
      – My boss is pretending not to know that our client is a drug smuggler
      – My boss calls me during my bereavement leave to ask if I really need the time off
      – We’re asked to promote the company on our personal Facebook pages that we’re not allowed to access on company time
      – Our boss sends us a memo (this was 1988) to chastise us for unprofessional behavior, while paying us minimum wage to put his magazine together for him, and we all quit within a month, and yes it is awesome
      – We are told that 9/11 has increased our business (it’s 2002), then three months later there is a massive layoff which they blame on the business impact of 9/11

      All true stories.

        1. JulieBulie*

          She remarked to me that “some of the men” had “complained” to her about my appearance when… ahem… it was cold in the office. (So turn up the heat! LOL) I think she thought I would be mortified about this. I suggested that “some of the men” should wear undershirts for a similar reason. Since I dressed modestly/frumpily and rarely left my desk, it’s likely that SHE was the one with a complaint.

          She specifically mentioned a problem when I had worn a blue sweater. Guess what… I didn’t even own a blue sweater.

          TBH I can’t swear it was nipple envy. I don’t know what the hell that was, besides weird.

          It was the kind of company that if I had sued them they would have just shut the business down and declared bankruptcy, which they did a few months later anyway.

    2. JulieBulie*

      wait… office dog? That’s so cool. (Except for him eating your “resources.” I hope they weren’t human resources.)

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        The dog thing was actually awesome. We worked with kids and teenagers at risk of exclusion or involvement in crime and they all loved the dog, who belonged to one of the managers – but she was super naughty when he wasn’t around and needed to be better trained!

    3. Dienna Howard*

      From a temp job I held 15 years ago:

      “Woman smells like cat pee and thinks it’s perfume, while co-workers make fun of her”

      I did not like working there. Yes, the woman smelled like cat pee and was in denial of it (she kept referring to it as her perfume), but the way the others treated her was rotten. That may have been my last day there.

    4. Jules the First*

      – My coworker won’t make eye contact and shakes….is it me?
      – Dealing with a boss who insults staff on television (and throws things)
      – I left my job six months ago and now they want me back
      – My coworker is a crazy cat lady (literally), my boss surprised me with a new hire, and more
      – I loved my job…and then my boss died
      – What do I do about a manager who will make small talk but won’t discuss my work?

      1. JulieBulie*

        Jules – does your coworker shake all the time, or just around you? I ask because I have a tremor, and people are always asking if I’m cold or frightened. I barely notice it, myself, so it upsets others more than it upsets me. But maybe I should give more consideration to the impression it gives to others.

        1. Jules the First*

          It turned out it was me. My boss and I were in a meeting with this guy (let’s call him Hans) and when we came out boss commented on Hans’ weird behaviour and someone else laughed and said “Oh yeah. Hans always does that when Jules is around.”

          It took about a year for Hans to relax around me enough to stop, but it was kind of awkward. (And yes, with hindsight I recognise that I really was terrifying at 23….)

          In your situation, it might be worth mentioning that you have a tremor if you’re going into a difficult conversation where people might otherwise assume you’re upset, but it sounds like you’re handling it just fine.

    5. EvilQueenRegina*

      Let me see:

      Coworker has been missing presumed drunk for six months
      Coworker blamed me for the fact SHE failed to ask our boss for a day off for a medical appointment and boss thought she no-showed
      Job on my team has Defence Against the Dark Arts-level turnover and manager won’t admit her role in that
      Handyman is pretending to be sick and doing his own jobs cash in hand on the side
      Handymen built coworker a conservatory using work materials on work time (okay, so that one happened before I started that job, but it was one I knew about and couldn’t resist using it)
      Leaving lunch arrangements ended up in 90 messages of arguing on Facebook
      I’m being line managed by the female version of Cornelius Fudge
      Coworker won’t stop talking about her ex….from 20 years ago

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I initially imagined the conservatory was randomly added onto your office one day.

        Then it dawned on me that it was probably actually at their house….

        1. EvilQueenRegina*

          Yeah, it was at her house. The handymen who built it on work time got fired, the manager got fired for turning a blind eye, the woman with the conservatory quit before they could fire her, the admin quit because they had all gone.

    6. katamia*

      -My students refuse to do their homework but I’m still expected to assign it (and now they’re all failing my class)
      -I accidentally swore in front of my students
      -A building my employer built almost killed someone
      -The company I freelance for is sending me more work than we agreed on
      -The guy in the cubicle next to me constantly licks his fingers and rubs his nose on his shirt, and I can’t deal with it
      -A new coworker is trying to bond with me over the fact that we went to the same school, but I loathe my alma mater

    7. j-me*

      Ooh, fun.

      – My boss asked me to tie him up and leave him in a closet because his wife doesn’t do bondage (where was AAM 15 years ago?!)
      -My boss is a micromanager who looks like the “I am very, very alone” video date guy from Singles
      -Cutthroat megacompany is really a 30-year art project to restage Battle Royale in an office setting
      -I’m working for the city, and I’m seeing how the corrupt sausage is made
      -New job is the mental equivalient of wading through the Swamp of Sadness

      1. Hibiscus*

        –I think we hired The Talented Mr. Ripley
        –How can I manage my reaction to this gaslighting and get what I need?
        –My coworker types like she’s Rackmanov (sic)
        –I have to keep retraining my coworker because she goes on months of intermittent leave
        –Everyone keeps getting new jobs and leaving our team. Is this a warning sign?

        1. Wendy Darling*

          Re: typing like Rachmaninoff, one of the occasional problems at tech companies is “My coworker got a mechanical keyboard, will a jury convict me if I beat him with it?”

            1. dawbs*

              I’m with you.
              And I”m sorry people of the world. It’s just…I learned on (sometimes manual) typewriters (I can’t believe I”m typing that sentence. I”m really not that old, it’s just our technology was that bad), I can’t undo the muscle memory of “HIT THE KEYS HARD ENOUGH”

    8. Ask a Manager* Post author

      OMG. There are multiple letters in each person’s list here that I want to receive.

      I now hate you all for not sending me letters about these.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        I would actually love to know what the heck I’m supposed to do about a boss who orders food for literally every human being in the office except me, even though I quit that job. It was baffling. My response was to be super confused, feel hurt, and then passive-aggressively go get myself something way better for lunch than what they were having.

        1. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

          I’m a week late to this, but we had a GM that once took all of the support staff out to dinner but me. I was literally the only person not invited and then they posted pictures of “the team!” on facebook. I was just so hurt. My actual manager lived out of state and worked remotely and the GM would constantly leave me out of stuff like this because my reporting chain wasn’t a direct link to her. However, there were others that were invited with the same thing (remote manager/didn’t directly report up to GM), so it was just BS. I never knew why she didn’t like me.

      2. EvilQueenRegina*

        The backstory behind any of mine is available on request!

        I know that some of mine come from before I knew about this site.

      3. Daria Grace*

        Can we please have a special post just for these questions that are entertaining but people don’t really still need answers for?

    9. Daria Grace*

      – Is being tricked into attending spy agency recruitment meetings normal?
      – How many local newspapers should I have to read each morning to find out if our business is in another scandal?
      – My managers are into their 7th week of trying to find out who was mean on an anonymous survey. How should I respond?
      – My manager is threatening to not give a co-worker leave for her own wedding if other people don’t change their leave plans.
      – We’re now having up to 15 meetings a week with the entire team to discuss how much work we’re getting done. How do I convince my manager that this is a bad idea?

      2. Annie Moose*

        You can tell us, we won’t spill the beans–was it you who was mean in the survey?

    10. Wendy Darling*

      – My friend, who I have never worked with, listed me as a job reference without telling me
      – Per my NDA I am not allowed to tell my partner my work location or what I work on. What do I do???
      – Help, my coworker just took sole credit for a project six people worked on!
      – How do you handle being locked in a room with a drunk/high client?
      – Interviewee jokes about stabbing people, phone system fails, and more
      – My coworker told me I did a great job and then told my boss I did a terrible job
      – My boss keeps ordering lunch for everyone in the office except me.

    11. Daria Grace*

      I think I worked with your trash in desk drawer co-worker. When they resigned without warning they left their desk drawers locked and took the key with them. A month later someone really needed to use them so somehow managed to break in. Their were lifeforms probably unknown to science growing in there feeding off food scraps and used tissues.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Ewww.

        Mine moved department. I took over her desk and some of her duties. She’d always been territorial, unpleasant and hard to work with. She packed all her stuff into crates to be taken to another department but left some rubbish in a few of the drawers. Food wrappers etc. She knew I was moving to that desk. I’d previously complained to our boss about her behaviour towards me and things had improved until then.

        At least five people urged me to put it in the crates. I thought my options were to do that, throw it out myself, complain to my boss and seem petty, or ask her to come do it. I didn’t know what to do.

        I put it in the crates. I’m not proud. But I don’t exactly regret it, even though it’s not how I’d handle the same situation now.

    12. CAA*

      Here are some of mine:
      – my employees founded a new company while still working for us and tried to buy the rights to the product we pay them to develop, then they were suprised when they got fired
      – my employee’s wife called and asked why he hadn’t come home from his overseas business trip, but he told me he was working from home this week
      – my boss is mad at me because I was away on a business trip and my employee came to work while obviously high
      – the receptionist keeps posting passive aggressive signs in the kitchen, even though kitchen cleanup is in her job description
      – the admin assistant bought an expensive present for her VP and is trying to get me and my employees to chip in even though we don’t report to him

      1. Wendy Darling*

        Where was your business trip/working from home employee???

        One time one of my coworkers bought a $600 present for our boss and then Paypal invoiced everyone on the team for their share. She uh. Ended up paying a lot of money because after the first person said “I didn’t agree to pay this much, I am comfortable contributing $30, I will leave cash at your desk,” everyone else ended up basically doing the same thing.

        1. CAA*

          The business trip/working from home employee was in Spain with another woman with whom he was having an affair! I was completely boggled when the wife called because he had told me that he needed to work from home because she was having surgery. He really did work while he was out, so I had no way to know he wasn’t where he said he was. Turns out his flight was cancelled and that’s why he got home a day late, otherwise he probably would have gotten away with it. HR wouldn’t let me fire him though. I had to put him on a PIP for lying. Then I ended up leaving before the PIP ended.

    13. Anonycat&mouse*

      I love this. Regular-ish commenter gone anonymous

      -An employee of the other company in my office made racist comments (that, unbeknownst to her, are about my family)
      -Update: my boss talked to her but she hasn’t apologized

      -My boss is sending my friend’s tax return to her parents across the country and not to her

      -I’m dating my boss but I’m young and this isn’t my career. Oops, we live together now
      -Update: we broke up and I quit
      -Update: we un-broke up but I’m not coming back to work

    14. Imaginary Number*

      All from jobs past, but here are the best I can think of:

      – I think my boss has undiagnosed tourettes and everyone makes fun of him for it behind his back
      – My manager has girls’ weekends with all of the other women in the department except me
      – My employee’s baby was stillborn and I’m worried everyone will ask about her new baby when she comes back if I don’t tell them first

    15. EvilQueenRegina*

      Forgot:

      Manager asked the team to organise her a big Mardi Gras party for her 60th, while there’s mass layoffs going on
      Coworker is sneaking her boyfriend into the office whenever she’s the only one in there

    16. Canadian Natasha*

      -The person who just hired me was fired in a huge scandal and now my job is cancelled: Is this legal?
      -My coworkers are making fun of me for keeping my work station too clean (fast food kitchen work. Not joking)
      -My workplace has no bathroom, my boss got in a screaming fight with another company owner, and more.
      -Oops, I killed all the office plants
      -My coworkers are feuding over scent sensitivities and deliberately wear perfume. What should I do?
      -I found a butcher knife hidden at work (in a public library)
      -Neglected children try to hang out with me while I’m working
      -How to get my too-nice very busy boss to evaluate my performance
      -My bosses just gave themselves a large raise last year and now they’re demanding we take a large pay cut

      1. Canadian Natasha*

        Ooh, I almost forgot:
        -Help! I’m being mistaken for an elementary school student at my workplace (and I’m legal age)

      2. Canadian Natasha*

        And:
        -I found out my former boss assaulted a police officer but he called me the best employee he ever had: Should I still use him as a reference?

        Our lives are gong shows! Lol

      3. Canadian Natasha*

        Just one more:
        -We can’t have hot lunches because cafeteria owner throws crying fit if we get a microwave at work.
        And the update:
        -Is it weird to ask about kitchen facilities in an interview?

        1. Canadian Natasha*

          It was terrible because the scent sensitive person would have severe reactions with their throat closing up and eyes getting almost swollen shut and then have to take several days sick leave to recover but I think the scent-wearing coworkers convinced themselves it was psychosomatic (they already disliked the person for whatever reason). Management was no help and I was a young adult with no idea how to deal. :(

          1. copy run start*

            None of our scent-sensitive coworkers had that strong a reaction physically that I know of (it was a company-wide change, not spurred by anyone in my office), but there were definitely factions developing with vocal people on both sides. After management went through people’s desk drawers and threw out scented personal items with no warning staff united again against management; many felt that crossed a line. Things started to calm down from there. What they did to your coworker was horrible.

            I felt torn because I had reduced most scents in my life because my allergist thought it might help me, but don’t have strong physical reactions like your coworker. I was really young too and tried to stay neutral… but failed miserably.

    17. copy run start*

      -I heard a rumor my employer put his business for sale on eBay, I really hate working in a coffee shop, I’m not being paid for training, and more
      -can I quit my internship if the office manager had a breakdown and ran away, one of my coworkers passed away in the office, and more
      -my manager said she thought I had autism, what to do when you have less than an hour of work every day and your manager is reducing your duties further, and more
      -there’s no documentation at my new job, customer went to the bathroom while on the phone with me, and more
      -I moved to a new department and no one set me up with the new printer so I haven’t printed in 5 months, what do I do

      1. copy run start*

        More:

        -our boss just named and badmouthed two internal candidates in front of the entire office
        -update: internal candidate who was badmouthed by my boss is applying for transfer again, should I tell him what happened
        -manager refuses to damage out a pair of shrunken washed-and-worn jeans so my coworker shredded them with a knife, will we get in trouble
        -my coworkers called 911 over sewer gas and shut down the office
        -customer is threatening to sue me for causing him distress and I think he might be following me
        -my pad leaked on my first day and ruined my pants

      2. Canadian Natasha*

        “customer went to the bathroom while on the phone with me”
        Eeuuuugh! Can I at least hope it was just #1? (You don’t have to clarify)

        1. copy run start*

          Yeah, it was a #1. But I really would’ve been fine calling them back, or waiting on a table somewhere…. unfortunately by the time it was mentioned the act was already in progress. I think my ear needs therapy.

    18. Tris Prior*

      Oh, how fun! These are all true things that happened at places I worked, though not all of them happened directly to me:

      – My grandboss doesn’t wash his hands after he uses the men’s room, then sticks his hands in the communal candy dish.
      – A customer offered to give me her used underwear.
      – I got reprimanded for not being cheerful enough at work after I returned from bereavement when my father died.
      -My boss told me to design campaign posters for his son’s run at the senior class presidency.
      -My freelancer keeps coming to work reeking of weed and makes a lot of mistakes, but we can’t fire him because his partner is some Grand High Lama at our main client’s office.
      – My building’s front desk attendant calls me out every morning for having RBF

      1. Canadian Natasha*

        There is a reason why I never eat from communal candy dishes (and why I have a buffet phobia) and your grandboss sums it up! *Shudder*

      2. Ramona Flowers*

        I can’t believe I forgot this one:

        -Guy on the front desk keeps asking me about Germany and Nazis because of my German-sounding surname. Should I tell him I’m Jewish?

        So I was freelancing at a marketing agency in a business centre and the guy was obsessed with the fact that I had a German-sounding surname. He kept asking if I spoke German, if I had relatives in Germany, stuff like that.

        It was actually a Jewish name that could be German or Scandinavian. I had a weird relationship with my name anyway due to lots of family of origin stuff, and I just didn’t know how to handle it. Things came to a head when he started insisting I could have relatives who were Nazis and how could I be sure I didn’t?

        What I did at the time: tell him that was unlikely given it was a Jewish name, and blank him from then on. I didn’t want to reveal anything personal, or feel like that was a great way to handle it, but I didn’t know what else to do.

        What I’d do now:
        -Say “These questions aren’t appropriate and I’m not going to answer them.”
        -Make a complaint. Because harassing someone over the assumed origin of their surname is not okay.

        Looking back, I can’t believe I didn’t tell anyone, complain, anything.

    19. Snaggletoothed Tiger*

      -Watching my boss chew tobacco and use his spit cup during meetings makes me nauseous, the freezer smells like death (because it’s full of dead mice), are shirts with cartoon depictions of suicide proper business attire, and more.

    20. fposte*

      Oh, these are brilliant! I don’t think mine will be quite as good.

      -How can I make people kill their own bugs?
      -I’m in trouble for leaving our basement office when the sewage backed up all over the floor
      -Do good company-themed puns grant more latitude on in-office costumes?
      -I’m the only employee of a boss who doesn’t know what she wants me to do [this was actually an awesome job, though]
      -If an office branch is being closed, who gets the office supplies?
      -Seriously, just look at this microwave.

      1. Canadian Natasha*

        Hey, at least you got a microwave! ;)
        And the sewage one: I’d have run screaming! (Both when it happened and when I realized they were seriously trying to punish me for leaving!)

    21. fishy*

      – less-experienced coworker keeps mansplaining my own job to me
      – my supervisor texts while driving… and I have to ride with him to our work sites
      – my job coach wants to “follow up” with companies on my behalf
      – my company keeps quietly firing people without telling anyone and now I don’t know who works here anymore
      – coworker who I’ve known for two weeks is pressuring me to live with him
      – help, everyone wants to talk to me all the time when I just want to work

    22. Suzy Sunshine*

      From various jobs…
      -My boss cancelled my health insurance without telling me, and even continued to accept COBRA payments from me after I left the job.
      -My boss made me go into the flooded basement to do the monthly fire extinguisher check.
      -I was put on a PIP for keeping a pair of shoes under my desk.
      -Our security guard kept leaving her purse on my desk with her gun sticking out of a secret hole in the bottom of her purse.

      1. Canadian Natasha*

        Did you work with fposte’s sewage boss? There can’t be that many ridiculous basement leak bosses, right? Right…? (Sadly I think I know the answer to that)

    23. New Bee*

      –My boss stole a coworker’s tv in the middle of the night
      –The boss alternates bringing his two girlfriends (who don’t know about each other) to work events
      –The summer intern gave his free room/board to a lover who refuses to leave

        1. New Bee*

          Ha, she also stole plates, cups, and silverware like a literal thief in the night. Spoiler alert: she still works here.

    24. H.C.*

      Some of these were mentioned in previous threads

      – the boss who slapped my butt as a greeting, and did it again when I told him to stop because he thought I was joking
      – the receptionist who puts on false fangs when greeting office visitors
      – who VP who felt threatened that I was going to take his job during the interview (for a stipend internship)
      – the colleague who rattled off the various common spaces around the office where she and her b/f had sex after hours
      – the co-worker who brewed kopi luwak in our office coffeemaker X_x

        1. Canadian Natasha*

          Lol, it does sound like a sitcom plot point! Nobody watching would believe it’s a true story.
          Now I want an office sitcom made from the most ridiculous bosses/scenarios in AAM letters and comments. Somebody make this happen!

    25. No hugs here please*

      Best subthread ever. We should do this every week.

      – my boss makes me smoke and I want to stop!
      -my boss sent me an email calling me unprofessional and bcc’d it to our entire team!
      -I accidentally sent a ranting email to my friend who owes me money to my boss!
      This is fun! :)

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Thanks for this, it’s been a rough week so coming back to find people liked this idea has been really lovely.

        1. Cruciatus*

          Yes, please please do it next week! My jobs seem boring now as I think back on them, but I know crazy stuff happened so I’ll be ready with headlines next week!

        2. No hugs here please*

          I’m sorry you’ve had a bad week :( I saw you’ve had a bereavement too, I’m so sorry to hear that x

    26. Tabby Baltimore*

      -Tired of kicking pedophiles out of the public library’s kids’ bathroom, handling patrons’ threats to harm/kill me, and more
      -How to get over workplace apathy in the face of getting a national professional award
      -What to say when a patron admits to having committed a crime?

    27. Need a New Name*

      – My co-workers were arrested in an immigration raid
      – My colleague had an affair with the singer Michael Douglas and mentions it every single day
      – My boss yelled at staff from a partner company and called them unprofessional
      – My company doesn’t pay its bills and now the doctors we work with won’t see our patients
      – I threw a chair across the hall at work
      – My colleague has nothing but feminine supplies in her desk and keeps stealing my pens
      – I was on local TV at a protest and I got fired for it
      – Co-worker literally does no work and leaves hours early every day but the company won’t fire him
      – I got in trouble for wearing a sleeveless dress, but my slovenly colleague met the dress code (I was wearing a suit and had taken the jacket off at my desk while my co-worker was wearing a badly stained threadbare sweatshirt with a childish print tucked into a prairie skirt and white athletic socks worn with sandals)
      – The cooks at my restaurant smoke pot on their breaks. Is that legal?
      – My colleagues like to dress up as fantasy characters and then beat each other up
      – I keep finding dead bodies at work (OK, that’s because I’m an archaeologist.)

      1. Canadian Natasha*

        Oh now you’re reminding of another (sad) one:
        -My new coworker talks incessantly about her affair with our (married) city mayor but I think she’s mentally ill and imagining it
        (There were other reasons why this was a reasonable suspicion, not just armchair diagnosing. It was a sad situation)

    28. Raven*

      This is a really clever prompt! I’m surprised I haven’t seen it sooner.

      • Boss and coworkers told me being sober would make me a bad culture fit for my field
      • Update: After being told sobriety would make me a bad culture fit, I started making friends with the local religious young adults group –– and things have gotten so much better
      • Coworker put pushpin in other coworker’s chair and never got disciplined
      • I never heard back about this job — then found three months later my friend got it
      • Can I name-drop celebrities I’ve worked with on my resume?
      • I’m constantly told thousands of people would do anything to have this job, but it’s killing me
      • It’s been 6 months, and I still haven’t gotten my freelance check

    29. Hazel Asperg*

      – My boss told me I would be fired if I took time off for a friend’s funeral
      – My employer says I’m bullying her because I asked for a day’s holiday
      – I keep having to teach my coworker how to use the tills. (We started the job at the same time…)
      – I’ve been told I’m responsible for my boss’s work output
      – My manager listens to drum and bass, loudly, all day
      – My supervisor asked me if I really need my disability aid

    30. Shouldn't use my regular name for this one*

      -My boss is always out and I can’t figure out how much I should cover for him.
      -I’m pretty sure the only person in our office right now is a student on his summer job, so how much remote work should I be doing from my dying mother’s bedside?
      -My boss sent an email to the entire office from a NSFW address.
      -Help! My boss said he had a computer virus so I googled it and found his porn twitter account.
      -I finally got access to my missing boss’ voice mail and his sister left a pleading message asking him to get in touch. When should I call the cops?
      -My grandboss rolled his eyes at me and told me I don’t know what I’m talking about when I’ve been running the department on my own for months.
      -So, my interviewer breastfed her infant while continuing to ask me really hard questions. How should I have handled it?
      -When can I safely assume grandboss has received my resignation? He refuses to meet with me.
      -My new boss (in a different city) watches our every move on the security cameras and just texted me about putting more ice in the mixed drinks.
      -My boss insisted my colleague revoke a hire because they wear a religious head covering.
      -I was misled about the compensation scheme and now my employer owes me $15,000
      -How should I phrase “I faked an entire Q&A when we didn’t sell any tickets to the event” on my resume?

  232. A*

    My work friend from a former job just posted on Facebook in celebration of a job offer she just got. At first I was super excited for her, but then I read the comments and realized that was the same job I applied for (and had 3 onsite interviews for)… and sure enough 5 minutes later I got the rejection call. She’s a good work friend from my former position, and I’m trying to be happy for her, but it really hurts. Actually, this makes the 4th time I have lost out on a job I really wanted to someone I worked closely with– once was an internal position and strangely 3 jobs were at other companies. Its a fairly small field, but its not *that* small. I asked for feedback and was told that it was nothing specific, that I was a finalist but the other candidate was just stronger. But in this case I actually know the other candidate, and I have several more years of experience working directly with this company’s product, whereas she has only worked briefly on a slightly related product. But the most frustrating thing is that I have been job searching for just over 3 years with no luck, and she only just started her job search 2 months ago. I’m seriously ready to just give up on this job search. I don’t know what I can do next, but clearly it isn’t what I’m doing now.

    2. Jules the First*

      It’s not a question of experience – your former colleague was probably a better fit culturally. If you are getting to interviews, your application materials are solid; if you are missing out after interview stage, then it could be something you’re doing in interviews (can you ask a friend to do a mock with you and give you some feedback?), it could be one of your references, or it could just be that you’re in a headspace right now where you end up not quite fitting in with the places where you’re getting interview.

      By all means take a break from your job search and regroup – the right job is out there and you will find it! We’re rooting for you!

      1. A*

        I guess I just don’t understand what people mean when they say a candidate isn’t a good cultural fit. What might that look like in your opinion? Maybe thats something I would understand better if I had some experience on the other side of hiring.

        They never asked for references, which in this case is unfortunate because I think that would have actually helped me more. I have done mock interviews with several higher-ups in my last company when I was applying internally. They all said my interviews were solid and gave some great advice. I ended up losing that position due to favoritism, where the other coworker’s manager pulled a bunch of strings to get him first dibs on interviews. But that certainly doesn’t rule out the possibility of some issue, so I’ll try to get some second opinions. Thanks :)

        1. Jules the First*

          I agree cultural fit is tough. I guess the best question is to ask whether you enjoy the conversation when you go on interviews? Do you have any kind of personal chat with the interviewers, or do they stick to formal questions (or worse, try to launch a chat about your hobbies and get short, dull answers from you)?

          With the best will in the world, interviewers hire people that they click with, even if there is another candidate who is more qualified. That doesn’t mean you’re doomed to never be employed unless your competition is cardboard, but it does mean putting some effort into being charming and putting your interviewer at ease. Does that help?

          1. A*

            Yes, this is very helpful. Thank you. :)
            In this case I thought I had a pretty good rapport with everyone, but looking back on it I had some trouble connecting with the hiring manager. We were both kind of shy awkward, and the conversation struggled at times. My friend is one of the most likeable, outgoing people around and everyone just loves her, so it’s no surprise that she was able to win everyone over.

    3. JulieBulie*

      Something like that happened to me once, but it ended up being a blessing in disguise. The job fizzled out in three months, and she ended up in a serious of terrible companies for the next five years till she moved out of state.

      I found my new job a month after she got that one, and it was great.

      I don’t know what they chose her at that first place, but I ended up feeling sorrier for her than I did for myself.

      Keep looking, and you will find a place where they like you and you like them. But also consider revising your resume to freshen it up and see if that helps.

      1. JulieBulie*

        Oh – Jules is right. If you’re getting interviews, you don’t need to overhaul your resume, but some practice interviews might help.

  233. LadyKelvin*

    I had to take a sexual harassment training this morning, and one of the first things the trainer said was: “well you don’t really hear about this stuff in science, it must not be that prevalent. You guys are very lucky.” I was shocked into silence. The reason you don’t hear much about sexual harassment in science? Your career would be tanked if you tried to push back on it. Our field especially is international and very small. You could never get a job again.

    1. Whats In A Name*

      Wait, what?!? They said you don’t hear about sexual harassment in science or was there a statistic they were referencing that wasn’t subject to scientific testing?

    3. ArtsNerd*

      Aside from the general “wtf” wrongness of that comment, I’m not even remotely working in science and I’m aware of multiple major sexual harassment scandals that are clearly part of a much larger problem across those fields.

  234. August*

    Any advice for an awkward internship situation?

    I’ve been interning at my university since August, and I’m graduating this weekend. On Monday, I followed up on a quick “thanks for telling me but I’m probably going to forget that” conversation I had with my supervisor. In this follow-up email, I mentioned that 1) I wasn’t going to be able to make it in for my shifts this week because of final exams, and 2) since my graduation ceremony immediately followed finals week, my internship was technically over (it was intended only for the fall and spring semesters). I wrote that, while I completely understood if an extension wouldn’t work, if it would be possible for me to continue my internship into the summer.

    I haven’t heard back since then, and it’s driving me CRAZY. Was this a completely inappropriate thing to suggest? Should I send a follow up email? Should I stop by the office and have a conversation with my supervisor? This is all completely new territory for me, so I would really appreciate any advice

    1. CAA*

      The suggestion of an extension was not inappropriate, but the timing is a little off. If your internship ended last Friday, you should have let them know by April 7. It’s more professional to give 2 weeks notice, even if you think this should be obvious because they ought to know when finals and graduation are, and even if it’s just an internship. If you did have the conversation back then and the supervisor asked for an email, then the email should have followed pretty much immediately rather than waiting until this week after your official end date.

      At this point, yes, I’d stop by and have a conversation with the supervisor to ask about the extension. There could be a budget issue that prevents them from paying you through the summer, or they may be limited to only taking on current students.

      1. MicroManagered*

        Disagree. Standards for students are very different at universities. It’s kind of understood that the students’ work schedules are subject (and secondary to) the academic schedule.

      2. August*

        I did mention my week off and the possibility of extending my internship to my supervisor several weeks beforehand, but our department is small (<5 people) and she's both very busy and a little scatterbrained, so I actually only sent the email because I assumed she had forgotten, and I didn't want her to get any bad impressions when I simply didn't show up for my shift.

        But thank you for your advice! My biggest worry here is whether stopping by with no mention beforehand is inappropriate, so it's good to hear that an in-person meeting is fine.

      3. Whats In A Name*

        I disagree with he 2 weeks part for the notice, because its the nature of academia that students basically quit work for the semester when finals start and we usually would know those dates or at least the timeframe a year in advance and its the same year after year after year. (12 yrs in academia here, left 3 years ago but can’t imagine much has changed)

        HOWEVER, I do think that a stop by could be warranted and that asking about the extensions 2 weeks prior might have been a good idea. OP, I say that because as CAA mentioned budget can be a factor but since you are a small department there may be several levels of approval to add a position and your supervisor could be waiting to hear from someone else and that someone else might have had to check with someone else, or they might be on vacation, etc.

        Since you say below that she is sometimes scatterbrained I do think a quick in person visit would be appropriate. Things are generally pretty laid back in HE and just see if she has had time to make a decision/thinks it a possibility, where it stands etc. I’d just tell her that if it’s a no that is fine but you didn’t want to make assumptions either way.

        Side note: based on my experience, the most scatterbrained always seemed to get the best promotions/jobs!

    2. MicroManagered*

      Work at a university with student employees. We’re screwed when students graduate sometimes! I’d go ahead and follow up with your boss in person to “finalize your last day.” Boss might totally oblivious and say “oh I thought you were working through August” or at the very worst (which isn’t that bad) it’s time to collect valuable reference info. Grab reference info from the other staff in your office if you can as well!

  235. Wendy Darling*

    Can we commiserate for a moment about terrible applicant tracker systems that make you do a ton of work? Why did I spend all that time constructing a well-formatted easily-readable resume if you’re just going to make me fill all the info in by hand in too-small web form text boxes?

    I actually just decided not to apply for a job because their ATS wanted me, for every job on my resume, to fill out separate boxes for each of the following (and all of them were required):

    Starting year
    Starting month
    Ending year
    Ending month
    Company name
    Company country
    Company state
    Company city
    Job title
    Job category
    Base salary
    Bonus/commission/other
    Reason for leaving
    Supervisor’s name
    Supervisor’s title
    Supervisor’s phone number

    I looked at their glassdoor and they had horrible reviews, so… never mind, not worth it.

    1. Franzia Spritzer*

      I feel you. I clicked through a good looking job posting to find a similar ATS which required applicants to provide information for every job you’ve ever had, ever. I’m 48, I started working when I was 14 (in the family shop), yeah, not happening.

    2. Daria Grace*

      I’ve had seasonal jobs where my immediate manager was also a temp so I don’t remember the name and it’s unlikely the company does either.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        I was in graduate school for a long time so I had 1-3 different academic jobs a year every year for multiple years (RA for various grants, TA for a different class every quarter, etc). I normally don’t put them on my resume because at this point they’re not super relevant, but if they want me to list them it gets REALLY tedious.

  236. OlympiasEpiriot*

    It is almost 7:30 pm. I am making myself lunch to take when I leave for a night shift. I am covering for Resident Engineer on one of my own jobs. (ProjMgr) because I have had 4 RE’s in 3 weeks and can’t brief Yet Another One, plus so many things haven’t been going right, I feel like I should be there. Night work requires the RE to have paid close attention to the briefing, take seriously the need to properly switch your schedule around, and take damn ownership of the job and be somewhat autonomous. Well, I’ve not been pleased w/ 3 of the 4.

    So, I slept in slightly this morning, but still worked a full day, am home packing “lunch” and about to go to sleep and set my alarm for 2.5 hours from now.

    Happy, happy, joy, joy.

  237. Beem*

    I keep making the same mistake at work when I’m scheduling payments.

    The majority of clients have their payments withdrawn on the 1st of the month. There are a few clients who want their payments withdrawn on the 15th or the last day of the month.

    The problem is that I get into the groove of clicking submit, next, submit, next. When I come across one of the oddball clients, I forget to change the date and continue clicking submit, next.

    How do I get out of the groove?

    1. Dienna Howard*

      Slowing down when inputting could help. Also, is there a way to sort the clients by those who pay on the 1st and those who pay on the 15th? That could make it easier when inputting them.

    2. CAA*

      Can you sort the payments by date before processing? If the info is on paper, then paper-clip the ones that go on the different dates together so when you come to the clipped pages it reminds you to treat these differently. If it’s a list on paper or an Excel sheet, try highlighting the oddballs first so when you get to them you see that they’re different.

    3. copy run start*

      Can you do the oddball clients first, then go back and cycle through everyone else? That way you can take advantage of your groove and ensure you get it right.

  238. Anonanon*

    Just found out that in 4 to 6 weeks my position will be cut to half time. I’m not super worried about being unemployed because it just so happens a position is opening up at a different site and my boss wants me to apply, but I love what I do and was looking to move into a more specialized part of this field. Now I’m looking at staying with the organization rather than staying with my career goals and I’m not sure how to feel. Yay, full time employment. Boo, taking a sidestep in my career.

  239. Colleen*

    It is late, but I needed to share what a great work week I have had. I work in a required, but undervalued area of our company. I have worked in this area, in various permutations, for 14 years. About 8 years ago, the senior leader in charge of our group (and many others) was openly disdainful of our group and the work we did (saw no value in it). He left the company about 2 years ago and I have developed a good professional relationship with his replacement who greatly values our group. With his encouragement, I have met all the company’s senior leaders (including our president and CEO and have demonstrated our group’s worth.

    This week, it paid off. At a quarterly meeting of the bigwigs from across the company, they had a presentation on the work we do (a first!). In the president’s closing comments, he mentioned now vitally important our work is. This is great for us because people really take notice of what he chooses to mention in his closing comments. Well, this brought on a flurry of offers to participate in our work by VPs from across the company. Additionally, we have gotten the okay to add a new person to cover our European operations — the first step in a long-awaited expansion of our work. Finally, we have been starved of travel money for years, but today the heavens opened and every request we made was granted.

    So happy. One of the best weeks I’ve had at work in years.

    TL;DR: After almost a decade of crap at work, our hard work is starting to pay off and this was a BIG week for that.

    1. Whats In A Name*

      Congrats – sorry it took so long but happy to hear you & your team got the recognition you deserved! Great Friday!

  240. Sarah*

    I have two job interviews this week! Following all of Alison’s advice, including reading her guides. However, do you have any advice?
    One is a 2nd interview and I’m not really sure what they’ll want to talk about. The secretary told me to expect to be there for about an hour.
    These are teaching jobs. I’m leaving my current school for a full-time position (if one is offered to me)

  241. Nacho*

    I just got promoted last week, and my schedule’s changing from 8:00-4:30 to 2:30-11:00. Now I’m tired all the time and it’s starting to impact my work. Any tips on working a late shift like this?

    1. Whats In A Name*

      This never happened to me, but it did my step-dad (his promotion got him reversed from you…3-11 for 15 years then all of a sudden 7-3. It took his body about 3 weeks to adjust and he had to be super strict about his schedule until his body adjust.

      I think the most important thing is going to be going to bed at the same time and waking up at the same time for awhile. Even if you don’t want to or aren’t tired. That is a big shift so you are going to have to basically flip flop your routine, errands before work, appointments before work, etc. After a few weeks it will (hopefully) get better.

      But congrats on the promotion!

    2. Cruciatus*

      I also did it in the reverse–2:30-11:00 to 8:00-4:30. I was sick to my stomach for a good 1.5 weeks because I was used to waking up at 9ish and now felt sick and was not hungry and at 7am when I now ate, but also knew I needed to eat something before work. And it was a good month before the new sleeping schedule officially kicked in and felt normal. Give it time. The only tips I can recommend meanwhile are to try and keep a routine. You go to bed at this time, you wake up at this time. Eat when you should eat with the new schedule. Try not to shake up your routine much on the weekend either, at least for a while. It’ll likely suck for another week before you start feeling more yourself again. If you’re tired at work, if you’re able, get up and walk. Even if it’s just during your break. The walking will power you through a little bit. But if you can, get up at least once an hour and just move around, even if for 2 minutes. Or if you can’t leave the desk, do some squats or light stretches. Just something that pumps you up a little. Hope you’re feeling like yourself again soon!

  242. PhillyRedhead*

    I was laid off a month ago. I was offered a job yesterday. Not exactly in line with the work I’ve been doing the past 10 years (I’m a graphic designer, this is corporate real estate broker admin support). The salary is about 15% lower than my salary at my previous job. Benefits are more expensive. It’s much less flexible than my past job (I used to be able work from home as much as I wanted, now I’d have to be in the office 5 days a week), which means more money for gas. It also means more money for childcare, as the required hours mean I’d have to pay extra for early-care.

    I really don’t want this job. The online job description seemed to lean “graphic design with a bit of admin” but my interviews made it sound like “admin with a touch of graphic design.” We’d barely break even on income vs. expenses each month. It’s not in line with my career goals. But many people close to me are saying I should take it (my husband, on the other hand, thinks I should pass). I don’t know what to do.

    1. Lizabeth*

      Pass, if you’re a graphic designer this will make you miserable. Plus the $ isn’t there. If your hubby supports you if you decline, keep looking and sign up with someone to do temp graphic jobs or freelance.

      1. PhillyRedhead*

        Thanks for your comment. Everybody else is pushing me to take this job, I felt like I was missing some beneficial aspect! Thank you for the temp idea, I know there are a few in my area that specialize in creative jobs.

    2. Blue eagle*

      Just curious – who are these “many people” who think you should take the job and why are you asking them/telling them about your job search which ends up with them giving you their 2 cents worth? It doesn’t matter what they think, or what we AAM readers think, the main thing that matters is what YOU think and what your HUSBAND thinks (because the financial/other aspects of the job affect him as well). Go with that – and consider being more private and not telling the “many people” all the nitty-gritty details of your job search.

      1. PhillyRedhead*

        They are friends that I trust and I asked for their thoughts. I was really surprised that they all seemed to think I should take the job. They don’t know the nitty-gritty of my job search. I’ve been applying and interviewing for the month, and this is the only thing I’ve discussed with them.

    3. Whats In A Name*

      I agree w/ @Blue eagle. If you don’t think you’ll like the job and the money isn’t there the only person’s opinion that matters is your husbands. I know that is easier said than put into practice in many cases but this is truly a case where outside parties should not have a say or even be privy to conversations/decision making.

    4. OldJules*

      Pass for sure. It’s worth to wait for a decent job which doesn’t have that many negatives going for you.

    5. gwal*

      Is it possible there’s room for growth? Also as AAM often says “it’s easier to get a job when you have a job”. You’ll reduce the size of a resume gap if you take it, put yourself in a position to do good work and get promoted/increase your flexibility, and maintain a work life such that the momentum of “PhillyRedhead will take care of all the home-related things, of course” will not get too strong. The balance may not seem right at this moment, but think about it from the perspective of your future self, perhaps…

  243. The Cosmic Avenger*

    I know this is late, but I just heard about this from someone very close to me, who I’ll call OP for simplicity.

    One of the OP’s direct reports, Sansa, told her that a high-level manager, Cersei, asked her if she had any Percocet she could give her. (Sansa is level-headed and totally believable.) Sansa had the presence of mind to state that that is illegal, and Cersei said that maybe she should ask Arya [lower-level employee that OP and I are very close to]!

    Should OP go to Cersei’s manager, her own manager, or HR?

    OP is on the same level as Cersei, if it matters.

    My first thought was for the OP to go to her manager, and they could figure out if they should go to HR or to Cersei’s manager.

    1. fposte*

      I think OP should go to either her own manager or HR; if you’re not sure, her own manager is a fine place to start.

      I confess that I wouldn’t worry a lot about certain kinds of medication-swapping–a friend and I were on the same prescription painkiller once and I would have given her one of mine. But randomly asking a lower-level employee for a controlled substance that I’m guessing neither of them has a prescription for–that’s a yikes.

      1. The Cosmic Avenger*

        From what I understand, Cersei has/had a prescription, but it seems this is not the first time she has claimed she has somehow “run out” before she can renew, or maybe renewals have been denied.

        Anyway, you made me feel much better, fposte, I recommended the OP talk to her own manager and say that she wanted to go to HR with this, unless her manager wanted to take care of it herself instead.

        Oh, to make it more complicated, I found out that Sansa and Anya actually report to Cersei in the org chart, but regularly perform tasks for the OP, so she’s something of a manager to them also.

    2. fposte*

      Ha–I have a longer reply in moderation and I bet I know what got it there.

      Short version: her manager is a fine place to start.

      1. The Cosmic Avenger*

        I’m guessing it was the four capitalized letters in the word “painKILLer”….so let’s see if this goes in moderation, too! (Sorry for the extra work if it does, Alison!)

          1. The Cosmic Avenger*

            The word prescription? But that can be used metaphorically….which in general is probably why many people scratch their heads about posts going to moderation, using words that have very different meanings in certain contexts.

            1. The Cosmic Avenger*

              Nope, neither painkiller nor prescription did it. Unless it’s “prescription painkillers”, maybe triggers a pharma spam filter?

              I should probably stop now, otherwise we might be helping the spammers figure out the filters! O.O

    3. Rebecca*

      I agree with fposte – that OP approach her manager. Cersei should not be asking anyone for controlled substances in the workplace.

    4. LCL*

      Depends on what the business is. Anything that involves danger to self or others-machinery, warehouse, construction, medicine, etc go to her own manager. If it isn’t that kind of job, nobody is endangered but Cersei and your friend shouldn’t say a word to anyone. Cersei will crash and burn on her own soon enough.

  244. CCM*

    I started a new job (admin) last month where my schedule requires me to work weekends. I have worked M-F for the past 4 years since graduating college and I agreed to take a job with this schedule since I desperately needed an income. Now I’m realizing this really doesn’t work for me. Any ideas about talking to my supervisor about changing to M-F in the future? I’m currently working on a project that ends in June which is why I work on the weekends. Is June at the end of the project too soon to be trying to change my schedule?

    1. fposte*

      I think you can raise it in June, but with an understanding that they may have hired you to work weekends because they want you to work on the weekends, so keeping the job may depend on your working weekends; it would be good for you to know what you want to do if that proves to be the case.

    2. KTMGee*

      It doesn’t hurt to see if you could switch to a traditional schedule once this project is over, but if the job requires you to work weekends, and you’ve only been in the role for a few months wanting to switch, I could see them being pretty annoyed that you want to get off of weekends that quickly.

  245. Crazy Cat Lady*

    Event planners – do you know anything about American Meetings Inc? I have an interview on a Saturday because the company said they can’t wait until Monday. Seems like a red flag to me.

  246. Schnapps*

    So I’ve been getting up super early over the last 10 months to go to crossfit, but I was really sore yesterday so I thought I’d take a day off. I got up at my usual time of half before dawn and then some, finished off a cover letter, revamped my resume and sent it off at 6:34 am, for an application that was due at noon.

    At about 2pm they called me and scheduled an interview for May 8.

    1. Whats In A Name*

      Your body was telling you to take some time and shift your focus! And listening to your body paid off! Congrats and good luck!

  248. Sparkly Librarian*

    No advice needed, just spreading the word of good managers. We hear so much about the bad ones.

    The person who will be my boss after I transfer in about a month must have some spidey senses (or, more likely, is good at her job of juggling many teapots). I had been fretting earlier this week about what my next steps would be for training, but in my email accepting/confirming the transfer I’d also said that I would wait for next steps from her, so I didn’t want to reach out again (3 weeks and a bit later). The same day I’d mentally considered/dismissed the idea of calling or emailing to get an idea about what’s going on, I got two lengthy emails from New Boss detailing a plan for transition and training. The details had involved New Boss consulting/scheduling with at least 7 people, and so of course they’d been in the works for some time. And they contained such lovely managerial sentiments as “We won’t expect you to do anything until you’ve been trained to do it” and “If it’s difficult to make time for [a meeting] right now, it can wait until after you’ve moved to [new location].” I am reassured — both that the new department knows what they’re doing and also that New Boss cares about stuff like that.

  249. EmKresge*

    I was hired for a new position starting 5/8 and they invited me to attend a meeting on 5/1, should I attend? They made it clear that it wasn’t mandatory, but that they would like me to come if possible. For context, it’s the division’s only full group meeting and it happens monthly, they had originally wanted me to start 5/1 but their HR process dragged on too long for bureaucratic reasons, the position is an academic staff position, and I am taking the whole week off as a break between my old position and this one.

    1. fposte*

      If you can, I think it would get you off to a good start. If it’s academic staff, they may not even have meetings over the summer, so this could be a chance to see the day to day flow without being responsible for it yet. Just make sure nobody assigns you anything to accomplish before you start.

      1. EmKresge*

        Thanks! I can go and my inclination was to, but I wasn’t sure if it was weird to be asked to start attending meetings before officially being hired.

  250. Raven*

    Recently, I got a really cool job at a summer camp that I’m very excited about and 100% qualified for, but I’ve started to become kind of nervous about it: I found out that the last person who held the position held it for five years in a row. I even found an article in the local newspaper for that area about her and about how she was a fixture at the camp and beloved by everyone, etc.

    Although I have full faith in my abilities to do the job itself, I’m suddenly nervous that everyone will be judging me relative to her and/or that I won’t live up to her legacy. Help?

    1. dawbs*

      Just..try to be you, not her. And if she left on good terms, people often miss coworkers but are happy for them at the same time.

      And sometimes, an acknowledgement (“yeah, I heard Jan did a great job at this. Big shoes to fill!”) can go a long way, as can just being rather blunt about the differences. “Jan did keep all the campers in order by last names alphabetically, but for my system, it helps me to keep the cabins in order alphabetically. I understand it’ll be a bit of an adjustment, but this is what works for me. THanks for understanding.”

  251. A plea to managers*

    My position is so notoriously stressful that someone at my organization *who works in the HR department* told me about an opening at another organization. “We would hate to lose you but I just can’t imagine the stress of your position.” Fortunately for me, I’m giving notice on Friday. Huzzah!

Comments are closed.