open thread – April 7-8, 2017

by Alison Green on April 7, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. AnotherAnon*

    Any gift ideas for a work contact who’s gone above and beyond? This contact is in a separate department dedicated to providing support for one of my major projects (so most of our contact is via email), and over the last few years this person has been absolutely fantastic in anticipating needs, proactively getting the proper clearances, and being a wonderful resource for all questions and concerns. I’m leaving the organization in the next few months and wanted to give this person a token of appreciation, but I’m pretty clueless when it comes to gift-giving. Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

    1. Rincat*

      A card with a written message about how awesome they are. To me that’s the best kind of work gift.

      2. Jadelyn*

        I helped a manager get hired – we’d connected previously but hadn’t had any openings at his level, then a perfect opening came up and I reached out to see if he was still interested, and encouraged the hiring committee to interview him right away. He wound up getting the job and has been amazing at it, and about a week after he started I received a lovely thank-you card in the mail. I keep it pinned to the wall beside my desk still. There’s just something about a physical card with a handwritten message that conveys wonderful sincerity and appreciation!

        If you wanted to include a gift as well it’s hard to go wrong with a gift card – my work uses $5 or $10 Starbucks cards as currency for recognition and it always goes over well.

      3. Artemesia*

        I agree this is the thing that makes the heart sing. Same for teachers; the note is more valuable than another coffee mug. If you want to give a gift, I would make it an actual thing and not a gift card — they seem like ‘tips’ to me. And I would make it something that goes away i.e. edible. A nice box of designer cookies or chocolates if you know the person eats sweets or send a case of H&D pears to his or her home.

        1. Parenthetically*

          Oh my lands, Harry and David pears. That would be the actual best thank you gift.

        2. Gadfly*

          Biggest problem with edibles is dietary issues. The diabetic will have issues with lots of things, the vegan or gluten free person or person with allergies will have other issues, etc.

          And if none of that is an issue, there still is the issue that tastes are just so different. And if you are buying nice edibles you may have just spent a lot on something that grosses them out. Even the pears (blasphemy, I know!)

          Everyone says edibles, but they always IMO, seem appreciated more for the gesture and not for the actual edible. And a lot of the “nice” basket ones are hardly better than store brand equivalents that you pay a quarter or less the price for.

          1. Nic*

            As a texture-picky eater, I second the point about maybe not edibles. I think out of the several times clients have sent gifts to the office that were shared, there was once or twice I was able to find anything in which I could partake.

            Amusingly enough, the a pear was usually the successful option.

          2. hermit crab*

            The thing with food is that it’s easy to share, though. If I get a gifty food item I don’t particularly want, I bring it to the office or to my volunteer job or to a friend’s house the next time I go over for dinner, and there’s bound to be someone who will enjoy it! It’s not like it’s going to sit in a box in my closet, which is likely to happen with a non-edible thing. :)

            1. Nic*

              While I agree that certainly is a benefit, as a person who often has experienced edible gifts that I have to give away it is really disappointing.

              If you have the opportunity to give something like a gift card or card to the person and a note of praise to the manager, that may be a better option than something that could be disappointing.

        3. Thlayli*

          Depends on the person. My sisters are all teachers and while one of them genuinely seems to love the homemade kids made stuff the other two are like “no way do I want that crap. Cash and wine.” But of course they wouldn’t say that to parents lol.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      Personally, I think that’s a lovely idea. If you know the person is a coffee or tea person, I’d go with a gift basket of that sort. I called colleagues as my OldOldJob the other day to ask if I could get what amounts to proprietary code so my NewJob could do a better job of coding something. Since we are in the same state system, there isn’t a reason for them not to give it but they certainly didn’t have to. So, imagine my surprise when I was told immediately that the code would be packaged and sent. Once I get it, I’m sending them a basket of cookies. The decorated kind that say thank you.

    3. animaniactoo*

      Do you know any of their interests or hobbies?

      One thing that is beyond value and costs you nothing to do would be to write to their boss and talk about how awesome person has been to work with. But I’m assuming that you would want to give them a gift on top of that?

    4. chocolate lover*

      Edible arrangements or some other kind of food delivery? my former office had lots of company partners that would send food-related gifts. It showed appreciation, without being overly personal. They were sending to the whole office, not necessarily a specific person, but I still think it’s a nice idea.
      Or, if you know of a nearby coffee shop or restaurant this person frequents (maybe you could ask someone else in that location?), maybe go with that.

    5. Mongoose*

      Some suggestions other than an actual gift:
      1. Check if you have a peer recognition at your office. Ours is simply that you send a note to our internal communications office about your peer, and after being vetted by the peer you are recommending, it is featured in our weekly internal news letter and on the the lobby screens in our elevator bays (rotating with other announcements). The VP reads this and usually sends a follow-up thank you to the person as well.
      2. I send an email to the person thanking them for their help (always include some specifics) and include their boss.
      3. Send an email to my boss or boss’s boss, letting them know how helpful the person has been (including some specifics). My boss or boss’s boss forwards it on to the person and their boss thanking them as well for their work. It helps that my boss and boss’s boss are very senior at the organization so it’s just a nice extra layer of thanks.

    6. TheX*

      IMO a card would be great, but I’d be careful not to slip the word “resource” in it accidentally.

      1. Jill of All Trades*

        Honestly, if I got a card saying that I was a great resource and had helped another team significantly, I’d take that just as well as if they said it in another way. I’m not sure that word needs to be avoided.

        1. TheX*

          My point (which I failed to elaborate on) was that the use of this word seems highly controversial these days (as opposed to even 5 years ago). I was recently surprised to come across a couple of posts where quite a few people expressed hatred towards being referred to as “resource”. Their common explanation was that their time is a resource while they themselves are NOT, or something along those lines.

    7. Bagpuss*

      I think a card or letter is the best thing. A letter to the person’s manager would also be a nice gesture, depending on your organisation it might well help her at her next performance review.

      In terms of gifts, do double check first whether your organisation has any rules about gifts, but assuming that there is no bar, I’d suggest flowers, or chocolates, or a fruit basket – stuff which can be enjoyed (and if she happens to have food restrictions, shred or regifted to friend or family)

      If you know her well enough to know her interest then you could give something related to that but for someone you only know through work I would go for a letter or card and a fairly generic gift.

    8. Zip Silver*

      It depends on how well you know them and what they like. Consumables are always great (like a good thing of coffee/chocolate/whatever they like).

      I once bought a carton of cigarettes and did a handwritten note for a colleague after she really came through for me on a big project, and she greatly appreciated it.

    9. The Final Pam*

      A card as other suggested is great, but I know in my office no gift goes over better than a gift card to either Starbucks or a local coffee place. Even if said contact doesn’t drink coffee/caffeine, that’s usually flexible enough that they can get something there.

    10. Kopper*

      The standard in my workplace is a note of thanks with a gift card to a coffee shop (usually Tim Hortons since I’m in Canada), but agree with others that often a handwritten note and a mention to their boss is also good!

      1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        Totally agree with the others: A handwritten note or card, a gift card to a coffee shop, and of course, a note to that person’s Supervisor.

    11. AndersonDarling*

      I found my new favorite office gift on Amazon. It’s a desktop Himalayan salt lamp from Levoit. It plugs into a usb and it comes boxed ready for gift giving. …if they’re into that sort of thing.

    12. Maggie*

      I once gave a gift card for a fancy tea company I particularly like (after asking if the giftee was a tea person or a coffee person). I also included a note thanking them for their incredibly above and beyond behavior.

      1. LavaLamp*

        I got lucky with some very generous coworkers who’ve gifted me some really cool things over the years.
        A really neat ceramic coffee cup with my first initial and in colors I like
        A really beautiful fairy card and assembled Tinkerbell 3d puzzle/statue
        Plus countless little things like themed post its, bubbles and that sort.
        For recognition, the VP actually hand wrote and mailed me a card when I did something super well, as well as other high level people. That sort of thing makes me feel really happy.

    15. Rabbit*

      I’m + whatever number we’re on-ing to the idea of an actual physical card sent through the mail and an note sent to their supervisor/boss letting them know what a stellar help this person has been to you.

      I also feel rather strongly that there’s nothing quite like getting flowers delivered to you while at work! The times it’s happened for me I felt so incredibly special the entire time they lasted on my desk. I’d personally rather get flowers than consumables, by a huge margin, but I do agree that it’s hard to go wrong with a card and something nice to munch on or drink.

    16. AnotherAnon*

      Thank you so much for all your excellent suggestions! I’ll definitely be doing the handwritten card and emailing this person’s supervisor, and I’ll try to do some sleuthing in the next few weeks about this person’s food/drink preferences to see if a small related gift would go over well.

  2. Friday Anon*

    I’m going to be really blunt here. It may make me seem like a terrible person but it’s the truth. I’m very much in the minority of my office. In terms of race, age, marital/offspring status, and the like, I don’t fit in with my coworkers. Even in terms of my background: all my coworkers grew up locally in the city with fairly poor families, I grew up an hour away in a smaller country town with a well-off family (not gold spoon rich, but well enough that we never had to worry about paying for what we needed).

    As a result, I’m very much an outsider with my coworkers. They’re all nice to me, no one is outright mean about my difference, but they all flock together. Even when I do join them for lunch, they’re talking about subjects that I generally can’t contribute to. They’re all friends outside the office too so they’re often talking about their weekend plans together while I just sit quietly. They’re nice but they’re definitely a tight group; I’ve worked here for years but they’re all far closer with the various temps we’ve had for only a few months at a time because the temps match my coworkers in ways I don’t.

    So it’s a bad culture fit. There are other problems contributing to me now job searching but the culture fit is definitely a big one. And looking, I’m trying to figure out how to avoid being in this bad fit again. This especially makes me feel terrible because I feel like I’m stereotyping. I have an interview coming up that I’m very excited about but then I looked at pictures of the staff that are on the website and seeing much of the same crowd I’m currently working with. How can I go about finding a good culture fit and how do I do it without making me feel like a terrible racist/ageist/cultural-resistant person?

    1. Sunflower*

      Two things.

      How big is your office? If it’s small, I think even just moving to a larger office would help tremendously.

      Is the area you’re working in economically depressed? I interned once in a very depressed area and I was the outcast. I grew up upper middle class but was the poorest of my friends. These people thought I was incredibly rich and I was immediately labeled a snob. It didn’t feel good. Keep in mind that your office employs people from the area so expect it to be filled with the people that surround that area. If you are looking for somewhere more diverse, it might be worth considering moving if that’s an option for you.

      1. anon for today*

        It wasn’t nice of them to label you a snob, but to be fair, upper middle class is incredibly rich to someone who grew up with nothing. They probably didn’t feel that great either.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          But that’s not her fault, assuming Sunflower didn’t walk in and say, “Heeeey, how are you? I grew up with money!”

          1. TL -*

            I don’t know about Sunflower, but I had more than a few friends who were completely clueless about how much they actually had – they’d go on vacations I’d never consider financially, or have really nice stuff I couldn’t afford – and then would spend time downplaying it in a way I think they meant kindly but came off as incredibly blind to the way most people lived.

            1. AvonLady Barksdale*

              I don’t argue with or disagree with that– I’ve experienced it myself– but I think it’s completely unfair to anyone, regardless of socioeconomic status, to immediately label someone a snob because of life circumstances. The impression I get is that the label was imposed on Sunflower right away, not after conversations about vacations or where she went to school or the brand of her handbag (which are not, I should note, automatic reasons to label anyone a “snob”). I know a lot of snobs, and they’re all assholes, but they had to prove themselves to me first before they got that label.

              1. TL -*

                Eh. I’ve had people unknowingly code themselves into clueless upper middle class within a few minutes of meeting them, and they weren’t being snobs, they just had no clue – some of them are my good friends but I can totally understand not wanting to deal with it on a daily basis. And often, if I was with a group of upper middle class people, it was only me and a few friends from lower classes who would notice.

                1. Annie Moose*

                  hahaha oh man

                  For my current job I moved to a MUCH more well-off part of my state, and the people I work with have absolutely no idea how much money they have, comparatively speaking. When people found out what town I moved to, there were comments about how it wasn’t very nice, etc. etc. and I’m just like… dude, this “poor” town is significantly wealthier than the town I grew up in.

                  They really, really don’t mean it, and I try to keep that in mind, but it’s a good reminder to me that I’m probably the same way to people who grew up in lower economic statuses.

                2. TL -*

                  One of my college friends was telling me about her high school graduation present – a trip to Ireland with her family. I responded “Wow! That’s a really nice gift!” and she started telling me about how it wasn’t that expensive, they used frequent flyer miles for the plane, they ate at small local restaurants, ect.., ect..,

                  Meanwhile, the only vacation that wasn’t “drive to relative’s house and stay there” that my family had taken was a weeklong trip to DC, which it took us 7 years to save up for, and we stayed in a hotel room with a kitchenette and cooked, and went to all the free things – Smithsonian, national monuments. I think the only thing we paid for admissions-wise was an outdoor skating rink.

                  It would have been a lot more tolerable if she had just said, “Yeah, I’m really lucky to have had such a nice trip!” rather than trying to pretend it was a cheap gift that anyone could have afforded.

                3. Parenthetically*

                  I totally agree with you about this, TL. I don’t resent people for their wealth, but I sure do resent people trying to downplay the expensiveness or luxury of two weeks at a private resort on some island or whatever. It always reads to me like, “Well, surely you could afford this too, if you just used frequent flier miles (which everyone has, right?) and went during shoulder season (which everyone can totally do, right?) and knew the resort owner (like everyone does, right?) like me,” i.e., totally clueless about how less-wealthy people live, or about the value of money generally.

                4. BF50*

                  @TL

                  I don’t think I would interpret it as pretending it was a cheap gift that anyone could afford, so much as a clumsy attempt to explain that this trip wasn’t par for the course and wasn’t top of the line. They were only able to do it because they has airline miles and when they went they chose cheaper options.

                  It’s of course, still super tone deaf, but I think the intended message might have been “we aren’t THAT rich” instead of “it’s not THAT expensive.”

                5. Pixel*

                  My pet peeve, especially now that I’m up to my eyeballs in work (accountant, tax season, yada yada yada), is hearing all about people’s fabulous spring break escapades. The cruises! The scenic drives! The food, the wine, the freedom! These are women who don’t work, due to their husbands making twice what me and my husband make, combined (and we’re both professionals). They can basically go anywhere, any time they feel like it, because they’re not tied up in work commitments, don’t need to save up vacation days, and don’t have to coordinate their holidays with their co-workers, and have the $$$ to do whatever. They just happily post pictures of their lovely holidays while I sit at my desk on a Friday afternoon, before coming in again on Saturday and probably Sunday. A particularly clueless one posts pictures of the view from her vacation home titled “my happy place”. Apparently, her happy place is where she escapes to from the tremendous pressure of being a stay-at-home wealthy suburban mom. I, too, would love a happy place! Right now it’s a toss-up between my desk at work and a sink full of dirty dishes at home. Oh well, back to my desk now.

                6. TL -*

                  @BF50 – yes, it was a clumsy attempt to say “We aren’t THAT rich” except to me (and many non-upper-middle-class people) she was that rich and it would’ve been better if she could just acknowledged it.
                  She’s a good friend of mine and I don’t hold it against her, but my college was full of experiences like that and they do get really frustrating to deal with.

              2. Mimi*

                I have to second this; I grew up in a very small town with a distinct class split. People who worked on or for the naval base tended to be middle class (with some exceptions of successful business owners running monopolies on the town!) and everyone else was of lower socioeconomic status. The middle class got automatically labeled as snobs by the lower classes and everyone knew who was who because it was such a small town and by other cues.

                I was solidly in the middle class; it wasn’t upper middle class either, it was the middle of the middlest of middle classes. Which was to say we never had to worry about food, could take decent family vacations occasionally (never anything extravagant, always budget options and within the same state), and I only managed to pay off my college student loans relatively quickly due to intelligent budgeting. My parents are Vietnamese refugees and they both came from upper class backgrounds; my father’s family had more status than actual financial backing but he still went to a very prestigious boys’ school up until he fled to the USA and my mother lived in a mansion, had a nanny, her older sisters were all debutantes (she barely missed hers)…the whole nine yards. While my father more or less rolled with the cards life dealt him and made himself a good living in America, my mother often bemoans her lost status so I grew up VERY AWARE of what the upper class had, what the middle class had, and what “everyone else” had.

                The first major incident I had that really emphasized class differences to me was in 4th grade. I had a new jacket from Ross (Dress for Less!); it was probably less than $10 because I was a pretty cheap kid who liked saving my allowance for video games. I wore it to school with lots of compliments and “Oooo where did you get it?” (note: the town only had Walmart, Kmart, and a Mervyn’s for clothing options. I got my jacket while visiting my grandmother who lived 4 hours away.) Of course, I said I bought it at Ross because why wouldn’t I?

                A classmate, who I knew lived in the “town trailer park”, slapped me across the face during recess then proceeded to burst into tears while screaming at me. She said “YOU ARE SUCH A SNOB!!! YOU KEEP PARADING AROUND THINKING YOU’RE BETTER THAN EVERYONE BECAUSE YOU HAVE DESIGNER CLOTHING FROM ROSS!!!”

                Even at the age of 9, I was stunned. I realized that to someone of lower socioeconomic status than me, it was very possible to buy into Ross’ “designer brands for less!” angle that their commercials had. It was also the realization that this girl absolutely had no idea how the actual upper class actually lived and that everyone else who was “not her” was upper class, probably had maids and butlers, drank champagne, and drove big shiny cars.

                For a 9 year old, that was a pretty big realization.

                Ironically, I became friends with a lot of upper middle to upper class people during college. We just happened to have common interests and friendship happened. Some of them are genuinely have no clue how the lower classes live while others grew up in households that insisted upon thriftiness, self-dependence (“Clean your own bathroom, I don’t care if we have a housekeeper for everything else. It builds character.”), and responsibility.

                There’s something about the difference in classes that is readable. While it’s definitely possible for people to transfer between classes in social context, there’s a certain way people carry themselves, talk, and act that are cues to the class background they grew up with. Some people react very negatively to others of a different class background and it’s a really difficult prejudice to get around because humans are such group oriented creatures.

                1. aebhel*

                  So much about social class isn’t just money, either. I grew up in a trailer where the pipes froze in the winter and we’d take baths in an aluminum tub in the living room (in like… the 90’s), getting free lunch at school and wearing clothes from the salvation army, and I was still considered one of the middle-class kids because my parents are both educated and that showed in how I spoke and carried myself. My husband actually grew up with a lot more money than we did (although still solidly middle-class), and he got read as working class because his parents both had blue-collar jobs.

                2. Casuan*

                  With me, it was my reply to the daily question “We had this for dinner last night, what did you have?”
                  I always thought it was a stupid question, although at 7yo I couldn’t have ever said that aloud. So I answered.
                  It took me a few weeks to decipher why kids were thinking I was being a show-off: my answers always had a form of meat.* My dad was a rancher so for me it was perfectly normal even though I don’t think we were in a different socioeconomic class; it never occurred to me that beef or pork wasn’t on everyone’s dinner menu.
                  If anything, I felt I was lower because I lived in the country!
                  Once I realised my replies were causing problems I stopped answering & my classmates stopped asking me.

                  *except on Sundays; our traditional dinner was popcorn & homemade ice-cream!!
                  Every so often now, I’ll do the same, although it isn’t always on a Sunday & the ice-cream isn’t so much “homemade” as store bought “home style” or whatever I fancy

            2. Jamie*

              Maybe they weren’t downplaying it but it really just wasn’t a big deal to them. After all not everyone has the same standards for what is considered expensive or luxurious. Reading about class differences I tend to think back to my own childhood compared to my current lifestyle. I grew up in a fairly poor family (the kind where McDonalds $ menu is considered ‘fine dining’) but now I’m solidly middle class so I’ve had a few interactions with my family where it seemed like I was ‘downplaying’ or being ‘tone deaf’ even .

              The most striking was about a year ago when I was talking to my mom about visiting her and she mentioned she’d really like to out to eat at this new ‘super fancy restaurant’ (her words) that opened in town but she didn’t think she’d be able to save enough to afford it by the time I visited since entrees were $10 each with a few being even more ($12ish). To me that’s barely a drop in the bucket so I told her I’d pay and she was borderline shocked I could afford such extravagance and insisted I don’t need to do that because she didn’t want me to ‘be on hard times’.

              Some other times were when I took out a couple $20 bills from my billfold in front of my aunt and she nearly passed out in shock, the time I mentioned my car was under 15 years old and my sister burst into tears, the time my grandma asked me what I did and my cousin called me a ‘pretentious b****’ because my job requires a college education. The list goes on.

              Overall I think it’s a balancing act. On one hand a person doesn’t want to seem insensitive. On the other hand constantly having to act like you have literally nothing so you don’t hurt others feelings, never feeling comfortable talking about good things in your life with family/friends(vacation plans, something fun you bought, paying something off, etc.), and always being treated like you’re some pretentious big spender because you can afford to fill up your gas tank more than once a month gets very tiresome very quickly and starts to erode any sympathy towards those less fortunate.

              For me, it’s gotten to a point where I just avoid family interactions with anyone but my younger sister who’s also considered well-educated and middle-class. Otherwise I have to deal with family members who get upset at the thought of me being able to pay my bills without resorting to selling my organs.

              1. TL -*

                It wasn’t a big deal to my friend and I didn’t begrudge her the trip. It was the attitude in response to my reaction – obviously “wow, that’s a big trip,” from me means such a trip would be a big deal to me. And I’ve had friends ranging from middle class to very rich respond with, “oh yeah, I’m really lucky,” or, “my family tries to do a big trip every other year – it’s really fun!” and that has never bothered me because there’s an acknowledgement of “my life affords me different opportunities,” rather than, “this is no big deal, everyone gets these opportunities.”

                1. Jamie*

                  You made an exclamation of surprise and she responded that the trip wasn’t as expensive as it first sounds and gave examples of how they saved money. Sounds like a reasonable response to your statement to me.

                2. TL -*

                  It’s really not a reasonable response, given my background – even had my family had access to her family’s savings, it wouldn’t have been affordable.
                  And again, that kind of minimizing response (unless it was a trip they won or something), comes off as “everyone has these kinds of opportunities and it’s not a big deal,” which can make you feel very ostracized if you don’t have those kinds of opportunities and you don’t think you’ll be able to get them without a lot of hard work. That is the problem with those kinds of attitudes – it implies that their background is the right and normal background; if anyone says they couldn’t afford what the upper middle class affords, there’s an instant minimizing. And that minimizing implies “Oh, well you could have afforded it too, if only you knew how to save/budget/whatever.” That wasn’t the reality for my family and it’s not the reality for most families.

        2. TL -*

          Indeed, upper middle class can feel incredibly rich to the right background. And, in my experience, upper middle class tends to be the most likely to have no clue of how much they have but very aware that they are not rich, so it can be frustrating.

          1. medium of ballpoint*

            Seconded. People may be working off interactions they’ve had with other people of Sunflower’s background and now Sunflower her/himself.

            For now, I’d also think about taking small talk in a direction where you ask about/listen to your coworkers. We generally feel more positive about people who allow us to talk about ourselves and if you can show genuine interest, people are more likely to reconsider their incorrect impressions of you.

            In future interviews, maybe you could ask about the office culture. I usually ask about open/closed door policies, how much socializing/interacting staff members do, and how varied their interests/interactions are so I have a good idea about whether I’d fit in. Good luck!

          2. Ann Furthermore*

            It’s true, upper middle class can appear to be very rich to others. Money is such a tricky subject. It just is, even though in the perfect world it wouldn’t be.

            A few years ago we took a vacation to the Outer Banks, and rented a house. We had talked about renting a place with some friends of ours. Our kids are all friends, so it would have been really fun for them to have the week together at the beach. They turned out not being able to swing it due to some pretty big medical bills for their son they had to pay off, which we understood. The house we rented wasn’t a mansion, but it was big enough for our family (4 people) and there would have been room for them too, it just would have been a little cozier. At the time, I wished that we could have offered to have them share the house with us and just worry about airfare, maybe buy a couple loads of groceries and/or dinner a couple times and call it even. We were going to be paying for the house regardless of how many people were going to be staying there, so it wasn’t like we’d be spending more than we’d planned. I knew that would have made things weird between us though, so I didn’t say anything.

          3. Anonymouse*

            This is so true of my family. I was lucky to make friends in college that came from a fairly broad range of backgrounds, and learned pretty quickly that I could awfully be tone deaf (I still cringe at a few things I said, but I genuinely appreciate the friends who called me on it). I hope I’ve at least improved – I’m a lot more aware of the privilege I came from and I do try to be conscientious about it – but sometimes I listen to my family talk and I just think ‘you have absolutely no clue how well off we actually are, do you?’

          4. Loose Seal*

            I know I’m late to this, TL, but you might be interested in a comment thread over at Jezebel a couple of weeks ago. The question was prompted by an article about whether Blue Ivy knows she’s rich and so the question was, “when you were a child, were you aware if your family had money/didn’t have money?” What you are talking about here — upper middle class having no clue — is reflected there too. I was completely baffled to read that people would say they grew up with only an outdoor pool, not an indoor one, so they couldn’t possibly be considered rich while I knew I wasn’t eating lunch if school was canceled for snow.

            There really is a divide. And I think the OP for this question nailed it. When you grow up desperately poor, you are poor in the same way all poor people are. When you’re middle class, you have room to choose your path. And so your family prioritizes vacations, say. But 15 years later, you are arguing on a website that you weren’t rich because you didn’t have a pool but you forget about all those vacations that you took and you think anyone should be able to take because, in your definition, you weren’t rich.

            1. an anon*

              I’m quite late too but wanted to add–I grew up lower-middle class but went to a church firmly seated in the wealthiest neighborhood of my city. I’ll never forget a youth group classmate, whose parents had just bought her a brand new BMW for her birthday, telling me that her family wasn’t “that rich” because unlike some of her friends’ houses, her house didn’t have an elevator in it.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Well, it’s not awful of you to feel like you don’t fit in. Shared background brings people together, and if you’re an outlier in a lot of ways, it makes sense that you don’t feel like you can really talk to people. I guess I would try and figure out *how* this culture mismatch happened. Was it just weird luck that you ended up the outlier, or was it something about your profession, where the job is located, how the office markets itself, etc. If you’re seeing a similar demographic marketed to on the website of the place you’re interviewing, this might be difficult to avoid in your niche/region/whatever and you might need to look at making a change, either to your niche/region/whatever, or to what you expect in a “culture fit.”

    3. TL -*

      It’s probably not actually their background but the particular dynamics of this group. You don’t have to share a similar background with someone to have friendly chit-chat with them or take an interest in their lives – I am the only person with my background in my department but everyone still manages to find things to talk about.
      I would look for a workplace where people aren’t spending lots of time hanging out outside of work; that’ll help. And maybe work on your small talk skills? If they’re friendly, they probably just don’t know what to talk to you about, so try to take an interest in their lives (start one on one).

      2. Tuckerman*

        I agree. There’s usually a shared interest hidden somewhere that can be used for chit chat. Recipe swapping, what they did with their grandkids over the weekend, the football team you both hate, book recommendations. Sometimes a kind gesture can get the ball rolling. A co-worker with whom I admittedly thought I had nothing in common brought in donuts for my birthday one year. Getting to know her, I found we both like Scotch and that we’ve modified our grandmas’ traditional recipes because they used too much salt in their dishes. We can have friendly conversation now.

        1. Casuan*

          Often, a random act of kindness helps to break the ice.
          “Here’s some donuts for your birthday!”
          “I see you’re out of coffee. I’m going that way. I’d be glad to bring you another one if you want.”

          Once in my laundry area, an aloof neighbour was waiting for me to finish up with the washer. When I finished & we crossed paths I told her I left some quarters in the machine for her. We’re good friends now :-)
          [she was always polite, just a bit aloof & she wasn’t at all being rude about the machine; it’s a small complex with one washer & one dryer]

    4. Bagpuss*

      How long have you been there? I think even if you do have a similar background, it takes a while to fit in, and in a small office, and/or one where there is low turnover of staff so people have been there a long time, it is difficult to ‘break in’ to established friendships.

      I do wonder whether you perhaps come across as a bit reserved – for instance, you mention your coworkers talking about plans together – have you ever invited them to anything? Or suggested meeting up at a public event outside of work?

      I think looking for jobs in larger organisations might suit you better, that way there are likely to be people who have something in common with you, even if they don’t ‘match’ in every way.

    5. Chickaletta*

      Culture fit is important, and economic background can influence how one values education, their view on relationships, long-term goal-setting, financial management, and more. My husband and I come from different economic and ethnic backgrounds and I’ve had to come to accept that we place a different value on some of these things.

      As for your job search, I would look for companies and industries that value the types of things you value, and you will be more likely to work with people who value those things too. And when you get to the interview, ask questions like, -What kind of person will fit in here? What do you look for in an employee?

    6. PoniezRUs*

      You will need to work at a larger, possible multi national company in a large city to get less of this. I too am a minority and have felt some of the same resentment you feel. Larger companies help to dilute those nuances and also provide more opportunities for growth (usually) .
      In regards to the socio economic backgrounds, I grew up extremely poor and it made me feel like an outsider when my coworkers with your background talked about things they did that I could not connect with. They also talked about how unsafe they felt driving through areas I grew up in and that made me angry. I have faced this at every company I have been at. I just take it as an opportunity to understand their mentality and kindly explain how out of touch their comments are. With that being said, just look for culture fit in the mission of the company, values, and career progression.

      1. TL -*

        The neighborhood thing is the worst! Though for me, it’s usually a neighborhood that looks like my hometown. I’ve just started responding, “well a lot of people live there just fine, so it’s clearly doable.”

        1. Lil Lamb*

          Definitely. Once, people kept warning me about that a part of town I was staying (three month study abroad) was “rough.” The area just looked like suburbia to me, and I found it so strange.

          1. TL -*

            I live in Boston and while it used to be a much rougher city where this wasn’t true, every time I hear “rough neighborhood” to describe a current neighborhood, it shockingly also coincides to “not white.”

            My neighborhood has a bad rap, but it’s actually much nicer than a student-populated suburb with a much better reputation. But my neighborhood is a former rough side of town that turned into immigrant town, so…

            1. Lily Evans*

              There’s a bus route I now take regularly in Boston that I avoided for the longest time because a coworker (who turns out to be a super hyperbolic person, but I fidn’t know it at te time) told me it wasn’t safe. Turns out I’ve never felt unsafe on that bus even at night, but there have been a bunch of times I was the only white person or close to it. It didn’t take me too long to connect those dots…

    7. Freya UK*

      I don’t think you’re a terrible person – I’m in a similar boat, and I’ve been in boats like this too often (school, work, socially…). I’m also job-hunting again and the whole trying to find the right culture (in all the ways) thing has got me anxious and sad also.

      It’s hard – I have strived to overcome my own biases time & time again, only to get ostracised regardless because often others don’t feel they have to address theirs about someone who fits my various ‘catagories’… especially if they have the safety of a peergroup around them. I try to stay open-minded, but you get tired of defending yourself when you’ve done nothing wrong.

      I’m afraid I don’t have any good advice for you just yet, but you’re not alone!

    8. Elizabeth West*

      I felt this way at Exjob–the people I worked with were really intelligent and many of them made more money than I did, but the sports/Duck Dynasty/camo culture was a total mismatch. That is literally all anyone talked about when they weren’t talking about work.

      I would have probably been better off if I worked with the geekier folks, but most of them were in IT (not my area) and my entire team and the team surrounding me were the other group. In fact, every company I’ve worked for here has been like that–it’s the entire city, really. It took years before I even found a nerdy group to hang with outside work. I wondered where they were all hiding!

      I’m not sure if where you live has the same issue, or it’s your company or industry. The solution for me is to accept that I am probably not going to be close friends with my coworkers (that’s fine) and to leave as soon as I can.

      1. Nerd*

        I joined my current company last fall, which is when they got a contract from a network to produce a product for a Very Popular TV Show. I’m a huge fan of said TV show as was big chunk of my old company. New company? Not so much! They announced it like, “maybe you know someone who has seen X show, you may want to tell them that we are making Y widget for it…” (subtext: we’re not assuming any of our staff actually geeks out on this odd show)

        So I’m tamping down my nerdness quite a bit to fit in, where in the old company I was known for having the best plot theories.

      2. Gadfly*

        Part of what helped push me out of my last job was that one of the two coworkers I had to work most closely with was offended that I used (real quote) “big words he didn’t understand”. And he held a grudge and was allowed to get away with a lot of mean teasing of everyone I felt crossed serious boundaries (but that’s just Fergus, he doesn’t mean anything by it.) So I got labeled a snob because I like books more than the Raiders. And he hit it off well with the other one of the two and they became a clique. From everything I know, he came from the better socioeconomic background. I could work with not being friends, but they actually made it much more difficult to do my job (which is a management fail too, where the manager kept assuming I just was having problems feeling left out when I was having problems with them not keeping me looped in or processing things correctly in the system so I didn’t need to be looped in, and because of it ads running incorrectly.)

        1. Freya UK*

          I’ve discovered that someone didn’t like me “because [you] use big words” on numerous occasions, it’s extra annoying when it’s a colleague (or a clique of them)…

        2. Marvel*

          Ugh. I’ve gotten that too–not at work, but friends of friends used to tell me “wow, you use a lot of big words” in way that sounded like it could pass as a compliment, but really, really wasn’t. I get the distinct impression that people assume that I’m doing it on purpose to “sound smart,” which I’m not, or that I think I’m smarter than they are, which I don’t–there are different kind of intelligence, and vocabulary just happens to be part of mine. I wish there was some polite way to say, “Look, this is just how I talk. I’m not using these words AT you, they are just the first words that come to mind. I don’t have a problem with how you speak, and I don’t have a problem if you need to ask me what a word means. Sometimes people use words I don’t understand, too.”

    9. Jessie the First (or second)*

      “then I looked at pictures of the staff that are on the website and seeing much of the same crowd I’m currently working with”

      What can you tell from a picture? Just age and race and gender (that last depending, remembering yesterday’s thread), right?

      You can’t tell marital status, economic status, level of education, disability status, friendliness, intelligence, politics, warmth…. And on and on and on.

      So my advice to is when you start saying to yourself “these people are just like the group I have at work now and I hate it” – stop yourself, and remember you see age and race and (perceived) gender. That tells you just about nothing about these people. Remember that, and repeat that to yourself when you start worrying.

      It’s not their age or race or gender that make you feel excluded – it’s other things. And you can’t tell those other things from the picture.

      1. General Ginger*

        Seconded. The only common trend you could definitively pick up from our office photos is that our photographer was really bad at setting up lighting!

        1. SometimesALurker*

          Thirded. If it is their age or race or gender that’s causing you to feel excluded… the problem might be on both sides, and something you can take steps to work on in your own reactions as well as in looking for a new job. If it’s not those things, then you can’t tell from the picture, and you should lean on the excellent advice of the commenters above me.

      2. AshK434*

        Definitely agree. This OP is definitely developing (or already has) some biases that as a black person I fight everyday. You can’t judge a book by a cover!!

        Also, everyone’s being really kind but I think the OP is a big part of the problem. She has this them-vs-me mentality which people can probably sense which is probably why no one really talks to her.

        1. Freya UK*

          Speaking as someone who identifies with the OP, the Us Vs. Them mentality is often created by (or at the very least supported by) the majority group in the situation, who have lead you to feel ostracised in the first place. That’s not to say there are no assumptions on my part either, but I know I’ve always tried to get on with whoever I’m working with, but I’ve found that – like someone mentioned above – there are just things about me that set me apart as being from a certain background, which some people won’t try to get over to get to know me as an individual.

          1. TL -*

            So if – as you said above – numerous people have said you use big words and they don’t like it, what they’re really saying is you’re communicating in a way they don’t understand and you’re making them feel excluded (and probably dumb to boot).
            Language is great but its primary means is to communicate with others and if you can’t do that effectively, that is a legit reason for people not to want to be around you. Ideally, one adjusts one’s vocabulary to the audience, not vice versa.

            1. TL -*

              Which is to say, while some people are just jerks, if it’s multiple people, I don’t think it’s an inherent part of you – I think it’s probably that you’re not adjusting the way you present yourself to the audience and there’s probably an underlying assumption that the way you present yourself is “right” so other people should adjust to that, rather than you adjusting to your audience.

            2. Been There, Done That*

              I go along with TL up to a point, and after that point I wonder if the math whiz would be expected to deliberately make mistakes so the more innumerate coworkers wouldn’t feel so bad.

    10. Merida May*

      When you picture an ideal office culture at your new job, what does that look like? Do you just generally meld into the office better than you do currently? Or are you interested in making friends at work that you can also hang out with on your free time?

    11. em2mb*

      In my early 20s, I worked in a very cliquish office where we all shared similar demographic characteristics (down to having gone to the same big college two states away) that made us fast friends. It was very tough to transition to my next workplace, which was much bigger and where people did not socialize as much outside of work, or if they did, it was because they were parents of young kids or some other trait I did not share.

      One of the things that made me feel better about not having those work friendships anymore was joining a couple of professional networking groups. I got to meet a lot of people that were doing similar work as me for other organizations, and though I’m now very content where I’m at, I have many friends who’ve landed their next job because of connections within the group. This might give you an insider track for new opportunities, as well as an early look at what the culture of a particular office might be.

    12. Voluntold Volunteer*

      When I started my career a decade ago, I went through this at my first workplace. I had just moved to this city in the South, and it was a medium-sized workplace with lots of people under the age of 30. When I was hired, I was the only woman in my age range (22-35) that didn’t have a steady boyfriend/fiancé/husband. Slowly, all of the women in my age range started getting married and having kids – and it’s all they could talk about. I just couldn’t relate, even though I tried for a very long time. It didn’t help that when I did talk to them, they would always make remarks like, “why can’t you find a man? What’s your problem?”

      I finally just gave up and realized that I probably wasn’t going to have many close friends at this particular office. It kind of changed my whole outlook on the company, because for the most part, I loved the company and loved my job. After a few years, I ended up moving on to another workplace (much bigger) but where I was (yet again) the only single person in my department. It wasn’t quite as bad as Company #1, but it still came up sometimes.

      As far as trying to prevent this from happening again, my best advice would be to ask specific questions about the team’s or company’s culture – “does the current team seem to be a tight knit group?” “How often does the team work late or on weekends?”, “How long has this group worked together?”, and so on. If you have the chance to interview with potential co-workers, you can probably dive into this aspect of the job/company a little further. For example, in my old department, the manager and one of her direct reports were BFFs and it caused all kinds of problems (i.e. obvious preferential treatment, letting the direct report get away with doing no work for weeks on end while others on the team were working a ton, etc.). I didn’t have the chance to interview with this particular team member or manager otherwise I would have been able to tell that they had a close relationship and it probably would have deterred me from taking the job.

    13. NoMoreMrFixit*

      In my experiences you can’t. I come from the opposite side of the tracks but similar results. Plus older than most of my coworkers. Add in living in the Toronto area which is the most ethnically diverse region in Canada. I had to learn to adapt to their varied interests and get used to being excluded from a lot of social events. Not fun but sometimes there is just too big a gulf. Doesn’t mean we don’t try.

    14. Cookie*

      I could’ve written this post. Except I’m working (and commuting) to a mid-sized depressed city an hour outside of the larger (and more competitive) city where I grew up/still live. I’m not seriously considering any positions in this mid-sized city because I know the culture is vastly different here and that’s not going to be a great fit. I’m also sure to ask about tenure in interviews – I’m not interested in places where people stay for 30 years because then you end up 1) with coworkers at one extreme of the age spectrum and 2) who have their own groups from having worked with each other for a lifetime. I had an interview recently where they said that most their employees stay between 2-6 years and that really seemed perfect for me. Lots of fresh blood where people will have more diverse viewpoints because they’ve worked in other orgs before and plan to transition again soon.

    15. NoMoreFirstTimeCommenter*

      I once worked briefly in an office where I had a similar problem. I had a higher education (though hadn’t been able to find a job in the field), middle-class family background, stable relationship, and hobbies/interests other than getting drunk with cheap beverages. The others were from “lower” class backgrounds, had lower education, job history in things like retail or bars, complicated family/relationship status, etc. Also most of them were recruited via networks and relationships and/or had been there a long time and had a tight knit community. I was the first person ever they recruited via an online ad. I didn’t have much in common with the other employees and we didn’t talk much about non work related stuff, except for one who was old enough to be my mother and had a very different background from me. But she was a nice person who was interested in my life. That’s not a question of class or age and also difficult to know beforehand but it makes a big difference.

    16. Not So NewReader*

      I think part of your solution might be to promise yourself you won’t stay in a place that you feel discomfort this strongly. Ask questions about culture, ask about employee turnover. Do the best you can sorting this out. If you still end up in a place that is a bad fit, then move on.

      Another thing that I have used and found very helpful, when I start a new job I tell myself “It’s all about them.” This works out quite well because they can’t wait to show me some new things or tell me the silly thing their dog did last night or whatever. Try to remember what they tell you and pick up on that in conversation again later. “Hey thanks for the tip about the copier, that was helpful.” Or “How’s that little rascal of a dog doing now?”
      Basically here you are hunting to find shared topics of interest and you hunt for those topics by focusing on them and what they are talking about.

      One place I worked there was a woman who I had to talk with daily for this or that reason. She didn’t seem happy and she was not very communicative. But at least she answered me when I spoke, so I just hung in there. After about a year we discovered that we had subject X in common, we were both highly interested in that subject. The doors flew open, we chatted often and even cracked jokes together.

      With this suggestion here the overall idea is to change your mindset. I know I like to have work friends who know a little about me and ask me “Hey, how’s the dog?” etc. I’d recommend putting that on the back burner, and instead learn about them and what they are doing. Ask questions. Sincere questions are fine, it shows interest/concern.

      I’ve worked with a lot of different types of people. As a newbie, I tend think that I have to “go where they are” in conversations. I think it helps to use this approach starting on day one, if I wait even a few months to implement this plan, it’s too late.

      1. Casuan*

        All of this!

        Friday Anon, you’re not at all a terrible person.

        You say that you feel that you’re stereotyping, which means that you’re probably doing just that. That’s okay, because really we all stereotype- it’s just how we process- even if just for an instant until our logic can take over. Sometimes that’s not as natural an occurence as we’d like, however being aware of the tendency can help us get beyond the stereotypes.

        re the photo you saw: You definitely stereotyped that one & if the individuals resemble your current colleagues, that’s understandable.
        However, if you do interview try to see past the stereotypes.

        Earlier suggestions are good [oh, for a like/not like button for comments!!]: that you might do well in a larger office & your not being assimilated now could be due more to the strong cliques than a culture/class thing. When you interview, if you can try to get a feel of the office vibe.

        side query: During an interview, Is it appropriate to ask for a quick tour?

        Please try not to feel bad about not being friends outside of work. Even though the cliques are close-knit now, eventually things unravel because Fergus didn’t pay his part of the tab or Jane thinks Tarzan looked longingly at the new intern & Jane is upset even though Tarzan has no idea Jane likes him & this all occurred at that new club they were raving about in the break-room the other day…

        Be courteous, use names, tell someone to enjoy their weekend, ask some work questions [“Jane, do you know where the extra toner is?”], ask about the photo on the desk [“Oh, those eyes!”]… usually that will prompt a reply that can give you a follow-up [“Your niece! I haven’t a niece although I do have a nephew & I don’t see him as often as I’d like. Thanks for the report, I’d better get to work on it”]

        Above all, be professional & be yourself!!
        Success!!

    17. Chaordic One*

      I can totally relate. In many of the jobs I’ve had, I feel like “Diane Chambers” on Cheers. It’s not like I consider myself a great intellectual or anything, but I do get annoyed with my coworkers when they don’t know basic information, like who their congressperson is, or that you can google how to do something in Word or Excel.

      1. Freya UK*

        Yes it’s that “common sense isn’t that common” thing isn’t it! My fiancé’s last workplace praised him for Googling things – they were so used to people who never considered that option… most concerning.

        I think that’s one thing that will forever out me as the ‘different’ one in workplaces – my reality of what is basic knowledge often does not align with other people’s reality of what is basic knowledge…

    18. Stella'sMom*

      Hi…. I am sorry you feel like an outsider and have felt left out in many ways. Here is my input, based on what I have seen working internationally for a while now. I have had colleagues and interns who came from very poor families and countries – and others from well-off situations. One of the job duties of management, and all colleagues, I feel, is to contribute to an inclusive culture at work for all. Not necessarily over-friendly but at the least, inclusive and minimising the differences that contribute to power imbalances or resentment etc. Maybe I am wrong, but I do think culture of an org should be set and demonstrated to be inclusive, discreet about pay differences, etc to make it a good place to work for the org’s goals.

      An example of where this was not the case: I worked in a place once where the very obvious wealth of the HR person (she and hubby flaunted it a lot – from cars to fancy bags, etc – he came from a well-known wealthy family) and big boss too…the flaunting made working with them very difficult… for 3 reasons. 1, because the org pay scales were transparent and they paid all of us workers very low salaries but management a lot more, the flaunting of wealth by these two created a culture of resentment; 2, because the HR person would show off things, like a new couture bag and tell us prices of these things, knowing full well that said bag cost the equivalent of several months’ rent for most of us; and 3, when the org could not pay employees on time, workers were much more affected than these two, both of whom were not bothered to miss a month’s pay due to their situations… so again leading a lot of us to leave over a period of a couple of years because of the inequity and callousness of the attitudes. Discreet and gentle did not describe either the boss or the HR person, and it came thru in the lack of awareness in my examples. (And on the inability to pay people on time… in some countries, this happens, even tho it is not legal where I live, a lot of small orgs have cash flow issues due to all sorts of factors.)

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This sounds oh-so-familiar. It does work into self-defeating, for example, I knew of a rich exec who complained that she could not afford vitamins and other natural remedies that would probably help her. If she gave up one new $500 suit for a month she could have gotten the help she wanted for many months. Very rarely did this woman wear the same outfit twice.
        I hear you, though, it’s tough watching most of one’s coworkers on food stamps and then seeing the spendy clothes, jewelry and cars of the higher ups. We did not feel they earned that pay because they failed to provide us with even the basics we needed to do our jobs.

        1. Stella's Mom*

          Completely agree. There is a human rights and worker’s rights aspects at work here too (I know, not all work or life situations are fair, but consider the rights side of it). I am sorry you’ve seen this too.

  3. G.R.R.M.*

    Out of all the letters Alison has published in the past, which one(s) are you most hoping for an update on?

    Mine was the one posted yesterday, because I worked with a Sarah before and that person made everyone miserable. I was so glad to get out of there when I found another job. I could relate to that letter so much.

    1. my name is Rory*

      For me it is the manager who was jealous of one her reports so much that was causing problems in the workplace. I thought she was brave to come forward and ask for help.

      1. Susie*

        +1 to that letter.

        Also the letter from the person whose entire department got fired when it came out that their boss lied about having a degree. I’m so curious as to what happened to the fired workers.

    2. Venus Supreme*

      I really want to know what happened to the employee who found a bullet at her desk. Was there ever an update?

        1. Venus Supreme*

          Man, that leaves me with more questions than in the original letter. I hope that the letter writer is doing well.

    3. MeridaAnn*

      Not an update exactly, since it was the manager who sent the initial letter, but I wish there was a way to get a follow-up on the woman who quit her job to be able to attend her graduation. I hope that she was able to get an amazing job with her new degree and that things are going well for her.

      2. k*

        I would want to hear from that manager. Did they ever come around and see that they were being unreasonable? Maybe reach out to the employee to apologize? Still think there are in the right and that everyone on AAM are a bunch of morons?

      3. em2mb*

        I secretly hope that the woman who quit will someday stumble across Ask A Manager, recognize her situation in the archives and write to Allison to say she’s doing great in a new job that’s aligned with her new degree.

      4. Casuan*

        Yes. I’d love to know how both the manager & the new graduate are doing!! Let’s hope the graduate does find this site!!

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’d like to hear from the manager who wrote about being embarrassed that their employee paid with cash at a business lunch. Mostly because I’m curious as to why they found it embarrassing.

      Also, the employer who had an employee refusing to travel because her husband said she couldn’t.

      3. Sylvia*

        I want to know about the cash vs. card issue, too. It’s a cultural thing I had never heard of before and I’m still really curious!

    5. MoinMoin*

      I want the manager who thinks paying with cash instead of a card is uncouth to come back and give some additional context.
      Generally I want an update on all the LWs who were roundly disagreed with in the comment section to see if they give more details that justify their original opinion or realize they made a mistake or whatever.

      1. Lance*

        Very much agreed on that last point; a bit more context on a lot of them, or for them to see how their actions were perceived by others, outside their own headspaces, as it were.

    6. ZSD*

      I’d still like to hear back from the employee whose boss was making everyone be tested to see if they could donate part of their liver to his brother.

        1. Ann O'Nemity*

          I want another update! Has the OP seen additional signs of duck club activity? Are people still quacking at each other?

          1. ByLetters*

            They certainly are all over the internet .. I’ve seen references to that letter on Reddit and FB!

    8. Temperance*

      I really want to hear about the woman whose husband made all her choices. I also sometimes hope to hear back from the nurse whose husband quit the job for her.

      1. Frozen Ginger*

        Did you read the nurse’s comments in her post? Because I didn’t the first time I saw it and hoo boy adding on to the rollercoaster.

            1. LauraG*

              Sorry for double post, also the link to the original thread with OP comments is at the top of that link.

    9. Freya UK*

      The guy who hates all work, because I can identify and I would like to know he’s become self-employed and is blissfully happy.

    10. FishcakesHurrah!*

      I want to know if the woman whose boss interrupted her chemotherapy sessions is doing OK

    11. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

      The one from last week (I think it was last week) who wanted to quit after a terrible first day on the job. I would love to know if the manager who was absent helped the Letter writer get settled and if the co-workers were more welcoming.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Aww, it sounds like she’s feeling like just another cog in the machine. I give her credit for hanging in there.

    12. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I really want to hear from the woman who got fired because she went behind her manager’s back and “took initiative”.

    13. Antilles*

      I’d kind of like an update on the teacher who forged vaccination paperwork. Because it could go so many ways – forging government paperwork is a major, fire-on-spot level offense, but vaccination is a hot enough topic among certain people that doing so might have touched off a firestorm…plus you can toss in the usual bureaucracies involved with a school district.

    14. Bow Ties Are Cool*

      The letter from the manager of the woman refusing to travel because her husband says she can’t (after she got promoted and did some travel).

      The boss who keeps referring to the (female) LW’s girlfriend as her “roommate”

      The St. Patrick’s day pinching debacle (would love to hear from both the LW/manager and the not-LW employee who quit)

      The LW sharing a 3-person desk pod with an engaged couple

      1. ReneeB*

        Oooooo, the woman refusing to travel just tingled all my spidey senses. I accept it’s impossible to diagnose via internet with a few sentences of data provided by strangers, but dear god, the red flags. All the red flags. Forests full of trees of red flags with red flags hanging from them.

        I just…I hope that employee is okay.

    15. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

      Besides those mentioned above, I’d love updates from the person whose boss is insisting they get their tonsils out and the person who was the only one not allowed to go on the office’s weight loss reward cruise.

      1. Lance*

        Oh lord, the weight loss reward cruise. There were so many things wrong with that one, as commenters were plenty eager to point out.

    16. Cambridge Comma*

      All of them! I really love every update; it’s one of the best things about this blog.

    17. anon for this one*

      As someone who is in recovery from an eating disorder, I have wondered about the letter writer who had a past eating disorder and was jealous of one of the people she managed. I think about her often since her letter was posted and I really hope she is doing okay.

    18. Frozen Ginger*

      I’d love to hear back from the recent LW who was using the agender pronouns for everybody in the office.

    19. General Ginger*

      The card vs cash boss, for sure. Also the teacher who forged vaccination paperwork.

      1. Kristin*

        I’d love an update from the manager who had the employee with the bird phobia who injured his co-worker.

        1. Sylvia*

          I’ll shamefully admit I want that one to go full Jerry Springer with updates from Jack and Liz.

          1. ByLetters*

            No joke. Reading that one was honestly like watching a train wreck in slow motion. I honestly don’t know where I fall on that — on the one hand, with a spouse with a chronic mental disorder, I’m honestly sympathetic to the fact that we are so cavalier about mental issues. On the other hand … shoving her SO HARD that she is hurt that badly? I can’t help but think that if it were me I would be just as furious.

            What if, like me, the poor lady’s phobia was hospitals? Where would the company be then?

        2. Rookie Manager*

          Yesterday on my way to lunch I walked past half a dozen pigeons. They all flew up and one brushed past my head. I have no bird phobia but in that instant it took everything not to freak out! My empathy for the phobic guy went up 10 fold.

    20. MuseumChick*

      Hands down, the recent letter where the man with a bird phobia shoved his female co-worker into a the path of a moving car to get away from a bird. I really want to know how that one ends up playing out.

    21. Office Mercenary*

      I’d love to hear from the LW who was considering bringing her abusive, recently reconciled ex to work functions. I often wonder how she’s doing.

    22. ReneeB*

      The manager who felt like her employee was committing an egregious faux pas by paying in (gasp!) cash for lunch and then tipping in cash (fainting dead away). Then had the temerity to dress her employee down for it.

      That letter was just…bizarre.

      I seriously doubt we’ll ever hear from such an strange manager ever again. But I would LOVVVVVE to hear from the criticized employee.

    23. Chaordic One*

      I still wonder about the letter from someone who worked in a branch office that had been neglected by the headquarters. As I recall, there hadn’t been raises for several years and not much interest in the branch by the people in H.Q. Anyway, all at once almost everyone at the branch resigned.

      I wonder if they kept the branch open and restaffed it, or if it was shut down. I wonder what the people at H.Q. thought about it.

    24. ginger ale for all*

      The life coach one from April 2013 is linked to a recent blog post and I think it would be nice to hear how that turned out.

    25. Miss Mac*

      I’ve been checking daily for an update on the manager who’s employee died and now her team is forcing out any new hires for that position. People cope differently, but at this point it’s been about a year and some months.

    26. C*

      I want to know about the employee that applied for a job outside the company, then turned it down in order to strong-arm her boss into promoting her.

    27. Lady Shalott*

      I would love to hear about the LW whose direct report managed a team that could not handle the horrific death of their coworker and subsequently drove out three different people from that job. They had essentially made the job and the desk a shrine to the coworker and no one wanted an internal move to that position because they had heard how toxic the team and situation was. It was just so bizarre.

  4. my name is Rory*

    How do you get over job interview jitters? I have an interview next week and I am so nervous. I have never had a real job interview before. My job in high school was babysitting and there wasn’t any formal interviews for that. In college I had a few internships but those were always done as placements through the school and were set up by them. I’m working my first job after college now, but I didn’t have an interview because it was one of the companies I interned at and they just rolled me over to a full time paying position once I had finished school. I feel a bit like a moron for being almost 25 and having no experience with this. I have no clue what happens in an interview beyond what people have told me or what I have read about here. I have gone through the archives here to find out as much as I can about interviews but if anyone has any advice of their own I would really appreciate hearing it. Thank you so much (and thank you Alison for posting so much advice to help others)

    1. Elle*

      See if you can find a friend or family member who has experience interviewing people to role play one with you. I do this with my kids and their friends all the time. They’ve all said it helped tremendously!

    2. CM*

      I like to start my job search with a few interviews that are pretty low-stakes so I can warm up before I get to the “dream job,” but that’s not always possible.

      I think the best thing to do is to be as prepared as you can. Get a friend to do a mock interview if you think it would help. Download Alison’s free e-book and do everything it says about researching the company, preparing a list of questions to ask, and having behavioral interviewing examples at the ready (so when you’re asked about a time when you faced a difficult situation, you can launch right into your story). I also like to google the people who will be interviewing me so I get a sense of what their background is, if I know in advance who they are.

      Good luck!

      1. Christian Troy*

        Yeah, it is really weird but I found that having a bunch of junk interviews was helpful. Not that I wouldn’t have taken the jobs, but I think having a bunch of interviews schedule helped me desensitize to nerves and get practice in answering questions, pausing before I answer so I didn’t interrupt etc.

        1. NoMoreFirstTimeCommenter*

          If the “junk interviews” are real interviews then just do it. In my experience for jobs that most people don’t want, like telemarketing, the interview doesn’t always include many questions and can be more like marketing the job so that the candidate would accept it. This doesn’t really gice you interview experience.

    3. Merida May*

      I used to get super nervous before an interview largely in part because I wasn’t sure what I was going to say. It was helpful for me to search around for really common interview questions (e.g. “Tell me about yourself?”, “What experience do you have with X?”, “Tell me about a time when…”, etc.) and actually write out answers to them. I then practiced them until I had the major talking points down. It was helpful for me because I felt like I had a good foundation of how I was going to present myself. Maybe that would be helpful to you? Best of luck!

      1. Is it Friday Yet?*

        This really helped me. Do not read your answers from a paper because you don’t want to sound too rehearsed. Try to relax and really think about your answer as you’re speaking.

        1. Is it Friday Yet?*

          Oh! Also, remember to think of questions that you want to ask them. This is almost always asked at the end of the interview, and I think you appear more interested when you’ve done your research and you actually have questions for them.

          1. Wendy Darling*

            I have a notebook I bring to all my interviews so I can write down anything I want to remember or in case I want to follow up about something later. The first page is a list of questions, mostly from here, to ask interviewers.

            It’s soooo helpful, especially because I’m in tech and six-hour multi-round interviews are normal, and there is seriously no way to have intelligent questions to ask your seventh interviewer in six hours unless you have a list.

      2. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        This. I actually have a long Word document that I update (occasionally) with common interview questions and my stock answers in STAR format. That way I can:

        a) Remember exactly what I did in the past
        b) Add and change as needed
        c) Don’t have to go through the chore of writing them all out again the next time I interview.

        I then practice on my own remembering my key points and formulating responses. If I am going through rounds of interviews, I will add new questions/answers based on new questions I’ve heard or suspect they will ask given the position/industry.

        To get over nerves…. this may not be helpful but I have always figured it takes a few interviews to get to the one you were “meant to have”. It doesn’t mean taking junk interviews but it may mean talking to plenty of people where you have at least a 60% interest in the job and/or recruiters (if you have that situation – these are great to “talk about yourself”). Its like I need to work through the first 5 or so to get back into the groove and figure out how to sell myself again. Practice makes perfect!

    4. LQ*

      I’ve tried a few things with varying levels of success.
      Going in thinking I don’t care I don’t really want the job, or I know I won’t get it.
      Going in thinking I’m skeptical of the company and really want to make sure it is a fit (this seems to be best for me).
      Getting sick. (Weird…not recommending, but feeling slightly under the weather tends to get me an eh why bother which takes away the stress a little.)

      1. anna green*

        Ha. One time I was job searching while pregnant in my first trimester and had horrible morning sickness. Spent the entire interview just trying not to vomit. I guess it worked, because I got the job :)

          1. LabTech*

            “Did you see how intensely she was focused on the questions? She must be a good listener!”
            “When we described the role, she literally turned green with envy! She must be very enthusiastic about this position!”

        2. LQ*

          It’s so weird, like both job interviews I’ve had while sick I’ve been offered the job for. So yeah.

      2. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        +100. I went to an interview with the attitude of ” I don’t need this job” and it was the BEST interview I ever had. They called me back, but I turned down a second interview (because I really did not want the job and I didn’t think it was fair of me to waste their time). But my point is, go in with an attitude of “THEY need Me, I don’t need THEM”

        1. LQ*

          Yes. And this is sort of what the skeptical thing is. Maybe not they need me, but they need someone and I fit what they think they are looking for because they called and asked me to come in.

    5. anna green*

      I just had my first interview last week after a long time of not interviewing, and I was really nervous too! Definitely download Alison’s interview guide if you haven’t already, it helped me a lot. Also, practice practice practice! I had my husband ask me interview questions and I couldn’t believe how much I fumbled the simplest questions the first time through, but after practicing for a while, I felt much more confident. Most (normal) interviewers are nice and friendly, so just try to relax and be yourself. But definitely preparing is the best way I’ve found to not be quite as nervous).

    6. cookie monster*

      I haven’t had a ton of experience either-I was at the same job for 15 years after college and didn’t have to interview to get it. The job I have now is technically only mu 2nd job even though I’ve been working for 20 years. What I found when I was interviewing was that I wrote out as many anticipated questions and answers ahead of time and studied them. Basically this helped me to have situations ready when someone asked “how did you handle a boss making a decision you didn’t like and you had to enforce it with your staff?” “how did you deal with a coworker you didn’t like?”
      I felt mush more confident at interviews because I knew I was capable of the work, the thing that caused me stress was not answering questions well. Having some notes to remind me of situations to pull out when asked specific things helped me to not have that feeling of madly searching my head for an answer and then later realizing the much better answer I could have given but didn’t think of at the time. The notes I brought to interviews were not detailed like my study notes, they were more like: Difficult employee: Mandy, combative resistant to authority, put my foot down and said X
      Basically enough information to remind me what I already knew, and often a catch phrase or work I knew I would not be able to pull out in the heat of the moment.
      Also, I schooled myself for ages in saying : “I feel like that wasn’t very articulate” for the situations where I couldn’t pull the correct word out at the correct time (this is a big problem with me-I can be very well spoken but also forget everything I want to say so a conversation with me can easily end up peppered with “doohickey” and Thing-a-majig” type language)

    7. Sunflower*

      Remember that you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you.

      There are lots of good suggestions here but I’d make a running document of interview questions- I have one that is like 20 pages long and includes basically every question I could possibly come up with. You shouldn’t memorize nor repeat these verbatim and they shouldn’t sound rehearsed but know enough that you have a general idea of what you want to say when asked. Keep updating this list as you go on more interviews and find which questions are more frequent. At this point, I get maybe a 1-2 questions that I wasn’t prepared for.

      I’ve also walked into a good amount of interviews where they have asked me maybe a few questions but they want to spend the majority of the interview answering MY questions. So make sure you have good ones(Allison has great ones on the site)

    8. Tuckerman*

      I don’t know that anyone really gets over the pre-interview jitters. But with more experience, I’ve developed a “this too shall pass” mentality. I know that I’m going to be nervous in the days leading up to the interview, in the waiting room, and at the beginning of the interview. But then I usually start to relax throughout the interview, because really you’re just having a conversation. Which to me feels natural.

      1. PhillyPretzel*

        Seconding this. I’m someone with a lot of social anxiety, and any time I have to go to an interview or do something else (like public speaking) that puts the spotlight on me, I get super nervous — despite the fact that I have quite a lot of experience with both of these activities. Even though I’m always well prepared and have practiced responses to likely questions, I still don’t feel less nervous — the physiological response for me is the same.

        So I think the best thing for me has been to accept that I’m probably always going to react this way, but to also realize that being super nervous does not mean that I will perform poorly. For me, the two things aren’t related and knowing that makes it easier to get through the process.

    9. Finn*

      Seconding all the advice about practice interviews, interviews for jobs you don’t care about, et cetera. Just practicing saying the words aloud is so helpful. Also Alison’s interview guide is great, highly recommend. Revamping my resume and following her interview tips got me my current (much better) job.

      Another thing I’d try is doing a mock interview and filming yourself. It sounds horrifying, and it totally is, but I did it once in college for a post-college life prep class, and it was so helpful. I was sitting in a chair that spun, and I was moving back and forth the entire time– and I had NO idea until I watched the video. Now I am very conscious of how I sit!

    10. oranges & lemons*

      See if your college’s career centre will let you come in for a mock interview. I think it was the most helpful thing that I did to prepare for interviews. My university would let alumni do it, and they also were pretty knowledgeable about the hiring norms for a broad range of industries, so they could offer industry-specific advice. I think my university’s career centre was better than average, though, so it probably varies.

    11. Hillary*

      When I was in business school, we practiced behavioral interview questions with each other at the bar. It helped more than you’d expect.

      More seriously, what everyone says about practice interviews is spot on. If you have friends are hiring managers (or friends of friends) ask them to do a practice interview and critique you. Video yourself doing it.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Sometimes it’s easy to feel powerless. Keep in mind that you are not powerless here. You CAN say no yourself, it does not mean that they are saying no to you. Both of you have to agree and it could be that you decline.

      I like to tell myself that if I were shopping for a car, I would not beg the sales person to sell me a car. I’d look it over very carefully. I might ask for time to think about it, so I could go home and talk to a trusted friend or family member.

      I have found it helpful to have a basic idea of what I want from a job. Do you know what the pay range is you want? How about other benefits? What about hours per week, do they let you go home, EVER? Just like car shopping you can make a list of “must haves” and a list of “nice to haves”. This will help to shift your mind away from nervousness and help you to start to think about the nuts and bolts of this job and this company.

    13. Evie*

      I had an issue for a while thinking it was an them vs me thing. Now I just remember they want to hire me. This is for both of us. Good luck!

  5. At Wit's End*

    (Quick recap: I have been dealing with a terrible job that uses me as the office scapegoat, has piled the work of three people on me, holds me accountable for things that are not my responsibility, and generally makes my life miserable to the point of panic attacks and mental breakdowns. I was taking the steps to leave my job even without another lined up but was waiting for a medical matter to be settled because I needed my work’s insurance. My last post is linked in my name if you want to read it.)

    My medical matter has been settled and I have decided that I’m going to give my notice next week! And it couldn’t come soon enough after the week I just had.

    Head Boss pulled my team into a meeting to inform us that we’re doing so well without filling in the missing spaces on our team (meaning me because that’s where the majority of the work has been shoved) that he’s not going to hire anyone to fill those spaces and we’ll continue on without them. After the meeting, I was taken aside to ask if I could take on additional work to help a coworker who is falling behind in her workload (one who ducks calls from her angry clients and is never here for a full work day). I tried to push back with Head Boss and Supervisor, saying that I already was at my limit with the workload I’d received from our missing spots. They both said they were sure I’d do a great job because I’m so reliable and if it’s that bad after six months, we can discuss changing it.

    So once again they gave me more work, even when I pushed back, while I’m still at the entry salary and title when I arrived here two and a half years ago. But I smiled as I left the meeting knowing that I had already decided that my two week notice will be in their hands next week. I’ll be honest that I’m still a little nervous to be making this jump without a new job on standby but it’s time. My job has made it clear how things stand and so it’s time to bow out. And I have had a few interviews that I’m still hoping will become a job offer but even if not, I’m ready to part with Toxic Job.

    Thank you again for all the support on here, I truly appreciate it more than I can properly convey. I’ll keep you all up to date about how my final two weeks go. By the end of April, I shall be free!

    1. RachelR*

      Oh, giving your two week notice is going to so satisfying after that meeting. Good luck!

    2. anon anon anon*

      I wish you were able to give them notice right then and there. Talk about satisfying. (Not the best professional advice but sometimes I have spiteful daydreams…)

    3. animaniactoo*

      “It’s that bad for me right now. The only reason I’m even getting it done is because I’m driving myself nuts to do it. If I take on any more I’ll go stark raving mad long before the 6 months is up.”

      But yeah, it’s going to feel sweet to put that notice in.

      1. RVA Cat*

        Plus the fact that when they have to pick up that workload they’ll realize it was too much for one person….

        1. Jadelyn*

          I’ll admit there’s a spiteful little part of me cackling with anticipatory glee and rubbing her hands together in the back of my head. Just wait until they lose their draft-horse employee they’ve been happily abusing and suddenly have to actually cope with that workload!

          1. JGray*

            I had your same thoughts! It’s going to be awesome when the Big Boss and Supervisor realize how much one person was actually doing.

    4. Anon for Today*

      Please update us on what happens when you do hand it in! Perhaps I’m spiteful, but I’m curious to see what happens when you do. I’d just be careful and clear out the computer before you send the notice in!

    5. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      Good luck, you will feel an enormous weight being lifted from your shoulders!

    6. Falling Diphthong*

      Good for you! (From afar I always appreciate the dynamic “We will never change the things that are driving you crazy.” “Okay, bye.” “INCONCEIVABLE! No one could have predicted such an outcome!”)

      The second letter linked up there is about an employee who was very knowledgeable and also horrible to work with–and may have been driven that way by the terribly mismanaged company. Rather than say “this sucks and I’ll be job-hunting immediately” (as his former supervisor, the OP, did) he seemed to view such a move as weakness and he sure as hell wasn’t the one doing something wrong, so he wasn’t going to just give up and quit. That dynamic–I hate this situation, and I will absolutely never leave it because that would mean I blinked first, I’m just quadrupling down some more until the bitterness is detectable by satellite–plays out an astonishing amount.

    7. LawCat*

      Good for you!

      “But I smiled as I left the meeting knowing that I had already decided that my two week notice will be in their hands next week.” When I had a ToxicJob, knowing when I was putting in my notice soon just let me sail through the drama care free. It’s a great feeling.

      Getting out of that environment will be great for your health and well-being!

    10. Trillian*

      Good for you, and good luck on the job hunt. Sometimes you just have to take that leap.

    11. hbc*

      I would put money down that they assume the resignation is just about this latest thing. Usually, I’d guess they’d try to talk you out of it by retracting that little bit of recent work and maybe offer a (piddly) raise. But based on your description, it’s more likely that they’ll just try to convince you that it won’t be so bad, and that you owe them another 3 months to see how it goes, and then whine about how you never really told them how you feel.

    12. Aphrodite*

      Please come back with updates for us! I am so happy for you, and am sure this will be a memorable weekend with lots of anticipation. There is little doubt in my mind that you are making a space for something good to happen.

    13. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Good for you on pushing back, even though it fell on deaf ears. Please update us after you give them your notice!

    14. SupportiveFriend*

      Please think carefully. I quit a job without a job lined up and people thought I was fired. I wasn’t fired.
      You need to think how you are going to handle this in upcoming interviews.
      Even when they hire you they will always bring it up thinking you were fired when you weren’t.
      I am currently in the same boat working at a sweatshop with verbally abusive boss and coworkers and I am trying my best to hold on. I was shocked to find out after I got in.
      I don’t want to repeat this nightmare. Plus it can be awhile before finding the “right” next job and there will be an employment gap. I just want to tell you this so you avoid more problems and hurt down the road. And avoid the troubles I faced. I wish you luck and hope the previous interviews turns into multiple offers soon.

      1. Cookie*

        I think that’s a fair comment, however, she could very easily say that several members of her team left and were not replaced, which meant that the workload was no longer manageable. Or more simply, that the position had changed since she began. There’s no imperative to provide a reference from every employer. Working to the point of total burnout would get her fired anyway or cause a serious emotional/physical illness. It’s best that’s she leaves now.

      2. Detective Amy Santiago*

        I was fired because I was put in a very similar situation to At Wit’s End and I spoke honestly about it when I was interviewing, explaining that I went from processing 150 teapot production orders every six weeks to processing 700 teapot production orders every six weeks in addition to managing a staff of 50 freelance teapot inspectors and being responsible for 100+ independent teapot painting instructors and I got zero support despite repeatedly asking for assistance and warning my supervisor that things were going to fall through the cracks.

        Guess why I got fired? The fact that they had to replace me with two people was also pretty telling.

        Basically, if At Wit’s End can speak to a qualitative, measurable increase in workload, I don’t think leaving without having someone lined up with be hugely detrimental.

        1. Chaordic One*

          Me, too! And I was so very burnt out.

          While they did not replace me with two people (though they could have), the next three people hired to replace me all quit within the next seven months, the first one after only a week. The job description ended up being thoroughly rewritten and a significant number of the duties were reassigned to other people.

    15. lowercase holly*

      good luck with your search! they sound awful! yes, make sure you already have copies of everything you want and your belongings safely at home before giving the notice!

    16. Wendy Darling*

      I also quit a toxic job with nothing else lined up, and even though I am still struggling to find another gig I do not regret it because I was losing my mind.

      Also going home on my last day and blasting Don’t Stop Me Now was sooooooo satisfying.

    17. JGray*

      Best of luck and a better job will come your way. It sucks that you have pushed back and they haven’t listened. Sometimes it takes drastic measures to get them to realize your value.

    18. Pineapple Incident*

      You sound really clear-headed about this, despite all that has rained on you during this hard time. Kudos to you for making the decision to walk away, because sometimes that’s the best thing you can possibly do for yourself (and ooooooooh I’d LOVE to be a fly on the wall when you deliver your notice, once they realize what’s going to happen with the 3+ people’s workload you’re leaving behind!).

      Good luck and I wish you a happy return to the workforce when it’s time/the right opportunity presents itself!

    19. Not So NewReader*

      Good for you, OP. They are paying you for your time, NOT for your mind and your health. Out there some where is a company who is going to think you are the best person they have met in ages and all you have to do is go find them.

    20. Nic*

      I got out of a similar situation in October. Not only were they piling on the work, the director level was actively preventing my manager from giving me any slack or assistance. He then offered me something the company couldn’t or wouldn’t back as an attempt to retain me.

      All that to say CONGRATS!!!! That feeling of incredible relief when you know you don’t have to worry anymore about the panic attacks from stress load. It’s so nice sometimes to go from The Person Everyone Depends On to Just Some Newbie. I’m doing a happy dance for you remembering my bliss upon leaving.

    21. Chaordic One*

      Good for you! There really isn’t anything you can say to your supervisors, that you haven’t already said.

      It’s time for you to move on and find new adventures. You’ve learned everything you can at this position and with all of the resignations and the failures to replace those people, it might well be that your company is having financial problems. The workplace just seems to be unstable.

    23. Cheese Sticks and Pretzels*

      So glad to hear you are giving notice! Nothing says “We truly don’t value you” more than giving you more work after you push back and no money.

      Please give updates as I am in a similar boat and shall live vicariously through you. :)

    24. Jenny Next*

      Your managers are truly terrible.

      I quit a very long-standing job (>20 years) a couple of years ago due to burnout. Much later, I discovered that it might have been possible to go out on medical stress leave. Is your company large enough for that to be feasible?

  6. Admin-Develop Jump*

    I am interested in pursuing a job in the development/fundraising field. I have several years of administrative experience, processing and tracking invoices and corresponding with payees, that seem like they would translate well to working with donors and their contributions. So I don’t have experience directly in that field but close; I still qualify under most posting qualifications. But I haven’t had any luck breaking into the field yet.

    Any guidance on what I can do to make the transfer into this field? Will this require classes or a degree/certification, or can I make myself more appealing as an applicant in another way, volunteering or something else?

    1. Mongoose*

      Ideally you’ll want to outline how you work well with people, are a proponent for their ideas and interests, and now how to connect them to the organization and make them loyal donors.
      Also look in your area to see if there are any networking groups for development fields–a lot of larger cities have non-profit networking groups and a lot of the attendees are frequently development/fundraising folks.
      Volunteer work may help, especially if it is for a fundraising office in a similar industry field. Example, you want to work for museums so look for volunteer work at a museum, historical society, zoo, library, etc.
      There are some places that offer degrees or certifications, but I don’t think they are necessary and I’ve never really paid attention to them when hiring.

      1. Lillian Styx*

        Adding onto all these great suggestions… when we hire in the development dept in my org we look for people with strong writing skills and also some background in communications. Also it helps to be the kind of person who isn’t afraid to ask for money!

    2. bibliovore*

      Development and fundraising is about relationships. Are you part of a community organization that you have helped raise funds.? A non-profit that you are passionate about? Do you know people at foundations? Have you written any grants. Do you like working with all kinds of people? There are degrees in non profit administration.

    3. The Final Pam*

      I don’t work in development but my mom works in it! She actually works on the development database and has done well for herself (in that non-profits actively pursue her as an employee). Getting training or experience with Raiser’s Edge could possibly help.

      Additionally, check with volunteering – a lot of non-profits look for volunteers to process donations, work with donations, etc. I know I’ve also volunteered for soliciting donations, so some organizations near you may want that.

      Good luck!

      1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        I, too, am looking to get a position as an Editorial Assistant. I have a strong administrative background. In the job posts for an editorial assistant, it seems like 80 + % of the job is administrative and most of the duties listed, I know I can handle. Any ideas on how to break into this field? Thanks.

      2. Zaza*

        Good Advice! We were trying to hire someone with Raiser’s Edge experience and it took a long time!

    4. NC*

      Agreed with all the other responses; you should also be willing to do the grunt work for a while – most entry-level development gigs (at least at smaller nonprofits) are data entry and tracking, rather than front-line relationship-building, but a good supervisor will give you guidance and opportunities for writing proposals, making asks, and contributing to strategy. Focus less on tasks and more on who will be mentoring you (again, emphasizing my experience is mostly in small nonprofits – larger associations & the like will have different structures).

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        ^^ I think it’s important to consider what level roles you are applying to. If it’s beyond these entry level roles, then your administrative experience may not serve you as well as you’re hoping. Fundraising and development roles are essentially relationship-building and sales positions.

      2. BRR*

        This is what I was coming to say. It’s less likely to move to a position with a lot of donor work. I would suggest a coordinator role for an annual or major gift program.

    5. em2mb*

      I don’t work in development, but in a field that relies on a wonderful development team to fund raise for our nonprofit. I’ve had the opportunity to be on hiring committees for members of our development team, and while technical skills are important, I think most of our hires bring solid connections to the table. So if you’re not already volunteering regularly around town, networking with other professionals who do development work and building that web of connections, it’s time to start. (And don’t be discouraged. It sucks to be told, “It’s who you know,” but that at least in my city, the people you need to know are friendly and want to get to know you as well!)

      1. Stay At Home Cat*

        I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but I’ve been in development for a long time, and organizations hiring development folks based on their connections (to donors and foundations, specifically) is usually a huge red flag in terms of the professionalism of the department. However, volunteering and getting to know people is still a great way to get a job!

    6. TheAssistant*

      I definitely think volunteering is the best way to add experience to your resume and decide what kind of fundraising you want to pursue. I was in fundraising operations for 6 years before switching to a data analyst role.

      You’ll want to think about the following things:
      –how many hats do you want to wear in a new role? I was at two nonprofits – one $15M/year and one $500M/year in fundraising revenues. Obviously very different experiences! At the smaller one (still a large nonprofit), we had a staff of 20 and some did individual giving with donor portfolios, some worked in planned giving, some did foundation work, others were researchers, some did the business/database end, and some were event planners. I was their catch-all assistant and got to dabble in all aspects, and at times people needed to pitch in to other departments (like an annual fund guy planning events and working on a specific restricted-giving project, for instance). But at a $500M per year nonprofit, we were all Highly Specialized in our roles (I was on a planned giving team of 50, and I only managed real estate and other complex asset gifts from the Western US). So try to figure out how much juggling you like and narrow your search to the right-size non-profit.
      –You should have an interest in the type of work your nonprofit does. It doesn’t have to be your be-all, end-all passion, but you need to like it.
      –If you want to work with individual donors, you need to be not only comfortable with asking for money, but in cultivating a lasting relationship before and after you ask. That takes skill.
      –Many larger nonprofits have membership departments, which are sometimes under the Development umbrella, but also sometimes under Marketing. That could be an interesting role for you, since a lot of it is processing member payments and gifts and whatnot (transferrable skills!), but also working with members one-on-one and often crafting messages to “uplevel” the membership. And I’ve known folks who have successfully floated from Membership to a front-line fundraising role on the Development team.
      –When I got my entry-level job in fundraising, I had about a year of college experience calling alumni for donations. But I also played up my Admissions background and writing skills to show how those would translate. This is probably a bit more difficult with non-entry-level roles, but use the cover letter to your advantage when talking about your previous experience and also your personal interest in the organization’s mission.

    7. It's all fun and dev*

      I work in development, and I was brought into my org by a contact I met through volunteering. My advice is to try to find a volunteer position that offers some experience in soliciting donations (even just asking grocery stores to donate food for an event), written and spoken communication, and any sort of outreach. Development teams want to know you’re not afraid to talk to people, as the end goal of fundraising is to personally ask people for money. Play up any transferable skills you have. When I applied for my job, I talked about how my previous admin position required calling people every day to ask them about their service, cold calling for volunteers for our nonprofit, and event support. I’m currently looking for my next career opportunity and I’ve noticed that (in higher ed development, at least) you have to really look closely at the job description to find out what the job is like, as titles are pretty much meaningless. I’d recommend looking to larger orgs/schools, as they’re more likely to be hiring for “development assistant” or “coordinator” roles, which would allow you to use your admin experience while also preparing you to move up in the org. I’d also suggest trying for informational interviews, to help you figure out if this is really the right field for you. Not everyone loves the pressure and “salesy” techniques, and it’s hard and tiring work. I love it and maybe you will too, but it’s definitely not for everyone.

    8. Vieve*

      I work in development, and was hired right out of college with no prior devo experience (although I did have some sales experience). Getting my job was, I think, a combination of applying through a general professional education program, and coming into an organization that was looking to gut and rebuild its development operation. I think you could potentially build experience by volunteering with a nonprofit, or moonlighting at a small non-profit that might have a looser structure and perhaps can’t afford to hire someone with a full development skill set but that would work with someone with a potentially adaptable skill set.

      Maybe a certification or professional edu program would be helpful, but I suspect only if you’re sure an organization you’re interested in hires from such a pool … and most fundraisers have fallen into that profession by accident anyway.

  7. Adam*

    No question this week; just a tale of workplace hilarity. Yesterday the women’s bathroom had a toilet get stuck on auto-flush. That bathroom is about 100 feet from my cubicle and water surged through the hall in a matter of minutes. It even seeped through walls into meeting rooms.

    Such fun moments include:
    – Employees racing to move furniture and boxes out of the rushing water’s path.
    – Paper towels flying every which way in an attempt to make a barricade.
    – A department manager warning people away from the site only to find the water had rushed around her leaving her stranded on one tiny dry island.
    – A man who is employed part-time by the organization as a psychologist rushed into the woman’s bathroom and found a way to stop the water flow, but was hesitant to do so until a woman agreed to go with him since it was the women’s restroom.
    – Water rushing down both the fire stairwell and seeping straight through the floor into the organization’s front lobby below.
    – One of my co-workers venting her frustrations that she believes she knows exactly what caused it (people using toilets to dispose of feminine sanitary products despite signs posted everywhere asking people not to do that along with installing trash bins specifically for that purpose).
    – All of which went on during the monthly gathering to celebrate employee birthdays for the month, so at least there was cake afterward.

    So after the building maintenance shopvacced the water up and tested it, confirming that it was clean water so there’s no health concern, I get to sit at my cube with a half-dozen dehumidifiers going full blast for the whole day. I was given the option to move for the day but it actually doesn’t bother me.

    Here’s to happy (hopefully) Fridays, made all the better by the fact I get to go home and finally play the new Legend of Zelda.

    Cheers!

    2. Former Diet Coke Addict*

      That reminds me of one time at my old job when I walked in to hear my very pregnant coworker calling “Help! Help!” from my cubicle. She was fine, but the ceiling over my cubicle (and mine only) had suffered a catastrophic roof leak, soaking everything. Computer, papers, floor, you name it. I spent the next two days working from a laptop in the production area while it dried out. Horrible.

      1. KarenT*

        Ha, I too have been singled out by a disaster. My office had an electrical fire due to some faulty wiring. They contaimed the fire to one office. Mine.

    3. Pup Seal*

      Haha, that reminds me of the time pipes erupted last year. It was a super cold January, and I work in a building that has multiple tenants. The first incident, a pipe burst in an office of one company. The building managers weren’t there, and the poor student worker had to figure out a way to stop the water (luckily my supervisor helped her). Four offices were flooded, and two labs were affected. There was also no maintenance person that day, and we had to wait 45 minutes for him to come down.

      A week later, it was MLK Day, and the building staff had the day off. Only tenants were present. When I walked into my office that morning, it was 55 degrees (40 degrees in the bathrooms!). The heat was broken, and everyone on my side of the building was shivering. Luckily my former co-worker had a space heater. When we finished our lunch, we shut off the space heater to give it a break, and we heard this loud rushing sound. We went out into the hallway and saw black water pouring out of the loading dock, which is two offices away from my office. The pipe that broke was a sprinkling pipe, so it triggered the fire alarm, and as the water came down to our office, my coworker and I scrambled to get as much off the floor as we could. Our offices and labs got affected, and one of the tenants affected by the first pipe incident had another lab affected. Luckily the fire department came in since they got a warning since our alarms went off.

      Two weeks later, a toilet in the guys’ bathroom burst, and water got everywhere again. At least the water didn’t get into the labs and offices.

          1. fposte*

            I was going to say a state-owned building in a state with no infrastructure money, because this sounds like my work experience.

            1. Pup Seal*

              This building is owned by a private company, but they rent it out to the university, who then rents out space to tenants.

              1. fposte*

                Hah, I get that. I’m at a state university. I’ve lived through three floods and various animal invasions.

                1. fposte*

                  Aaaand I’ve jinxed myself–guess who has a leaking ceiling pipe this afternoon? Squelch.

      2. Ann O'Nemity*

        Oh my, that sounds so terrible all you can do is laugh. Indeed, at least there was cake.

        Zelda is fun! I have the Wii U version since we don’t have a Switch. It can be addictive.

      3. Liane*

        A couple years ago, when I worked at (in)Famous Retailer, an employee using one of the forklifts that goes really high, moved it without lowering the business end–and hit at least 1 sprinkler head in the stockroom!!
        What a flood, & I know we lost well over $10k in damages and ruined stock.
        The woman driving it got fired at District Asset Protection’s insistence, although Store Manager didn’t want to. I thought it was a bit harsh. Sure it was a stupid mistake, but it was a mistake & it wasn’t a major part of her duties. My husband, who worked the overnight inventory shift at the time & so heard more details, told me later that Employee’s annual forklift training had expired a while before and that on top of the losses was probably why she was let go. If that is true I hope management got in trouble, too; because even the decent ones were bad about not making giving people the time to do their mandated training.

    4. Lee*

      Ugh, I’ve heard the Nintendo Switch was a bust.
      Shame they’ll probably halt making more 3Ds games…

      1. Adam*

        Sales-wise it’s actually doing pretty well from what I hear. Took me a month to find one.

    6. SanguineAspect*

      YES! Thank you for sharing your workplace hilarity (I actually just did the same lower down in the thread). I’m having a great mental image of a constantly-flushing toilet going in the background, flooded hallways, and paper towels flying haphazardly through the air, while you’re sitting in your office, calmly observing the chaos ensuing.

    7. Robin B*

      We had that happen…but it started on a Friday night and water surged through all weekend. Literally lost my entire office (and the offices of 3 co workers.) Clean water here too… but it ruined everything. True story.

    8. Beachlover*

      Well at least it was clean water. I worked at mfg facility, and one weekend the city sewer backed up thru the toilets and into the plant. When we came in on Monday, we walked into 3 inches of sewage covering the mfg floor, and it has seeped into the offices. We were all sent home for a couple of days, so they could fix the problem and clean everything. Come in the following monday, and guess what?? yup it happened again. Best thing about it was getting the days off with pay, plus they gave everyone $100 to cover any damage to their footware, and advised us to throw them out. Since I walked into it both times – I got $200.00 to replace my $20 payless shoes!!

    10. Celeste*

      We had a clean water pipe burst, but we ended up getting mold growth in the building. It took a long time to get that remediated, and there’s still a little odor. Mold works fast.

    12. Tau*

      Oh my god!

      We had water issues at my workplace this week as well, but nothing THAT dramatic. I’m now reassured that things could be worse, if also more hilarious. (Maintenance came and moved one of the ceiling tiles, at which point water gushed out. All of us are of the opinion that water should NOT be in the ceiling and have been casting suspicious upwards glances, but no one’s gotten an unexpected shower yet.)

    13. Solidus Pilcrow*

      Former workplace had an onsite cafeteria, one day they cleaned out the grease traps… it was NAUSEATING. All 3 floors stank like an open sewer for hours. People were getting sick, yet management said people should stay and work. Ugh. Of course they did this in February in Wisconsin, so it was either open the doors and freeze or keep the doors closed and puke. Fresh air won that day.

      Found out on Bar Rescue (my guilty pleasure reality show) that such foul odor means the traps have not been cleaned as often as they should. Makes me glad I never ate any of the cafeteria food.

      1. JanetM*

        One of the restaurants near my office replaced their grease trap last year. You could smell it a block away! One of the guys at a different place described it as “fermented camel dung”; I forbore to ask him how he knew that.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Yeah, those traps were not cleaned in a very, very long time. Possibly years. It’s everything you have described here and then some. I bet the traps get cleaned regularly now.

      3. Paige Turner*

        If it’s any consolation, I used to work at a retail place with a cafe, and they cleaned the grease traps first thing every Wednesday, and it was 11/10 disgusting every time. I used to try to avoid being scheduled for Wednesday opening shifts just for that reason.

  8. Sunflower*

    Working in events, my team has to travel quite a lot – primarily to NYC which is only 1.5 hours away for me but closer to 3 hours(or more) for my boss who already works long hours. My boss and our team assistant dislike traveling for work/staying overnight in hotels. I don’t. In fact, I find it kind of refreshing and a nice way to break up my usual work week. It actually seems to slightly rejuvenate me as oppose to exhaust me.

    I get the impression my boss thinks I always say yes to traveling because I’m being a team player and not because I like it. We have a series of events coming up that would require a 3-4 day stay for someone and I already told my boss I could do it, no problem. The next day she told me she might try to rearrange her schedule (and make more work for her) so I don’t have to be stuck there that long. The events that week happen to require very minimal event management- I’m talking like helping someone put together gift bags so I know it’s not because she doesn’t think I can handle it.

    I know my boss is worried about me burning out or overworking myself. When she does ask me to travel, she does it sheepishly as if she’s asking a huge favor of me. I think that’s why she always offers but like I mentioned above, this stuff doesn’t exhaust me as much as it seems to other people and I actually like doing it. When asked about the long amounts of time, I usually tell my boss that I really don’t mind but I’m wondering if I should say something a little more direct-ish. Thoughts?

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      Be more direct. It’s not going to hurt and if she thought you were just taking one for the team, she can readjust her plan. Might mean more growth opportunities for you too.

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Be direct! “I enjoy the travel aspect of the job, and would actually like to take on more, if possible.”

      I had to do this recently with my boss (I’m also an event planner) when she was bemoaning an upcoming trip. I offered to go in her stead and she said, “Oh no, I wouldn’t force this upon you,” to which I replied, “No, I would actually welcome the travel – I enjoy it a lot.” So I got the luxury of going, and she got the luxury of not!

    4. animaniactoo*

      Sure, but it can just be a quick response when she mentions being stuck with it or sheepishly asking – instead of saying “I don’t mind”, you could go with “It’s okay. I actually enjoy doing it. It makes a nice break from the office routine.”

      1. Trout 'Waver*

        Just make sure you don’t say it in a way that makes it sound like you’re ducking your primary responsibilities. In some office cultures saying it like that might not go over so well.

    5. On Fire*

      I think direct is good. I travel a lot for my job, and I definitely emphasized during my interview and at points since then that I enjoy the travel. We’ve had times when Multiple Events were happening at scattered locations, so someone else *had* to travel – at those times, I volunteered to take the event that required the most travel/longest hotel stay. I just phrased it as, “I know travel can be a hassle for Fred and Helen, so I can do Event in Faraway Place – it’s easy for me!”

      You might say something similar. You could even approach it that the travel is a gift to you. “[Boss], I want to let you know how much I appreciate the travel component of my job. I always come back feeling rejuvenated – it’s like a mini-vacation (if saying this won’t be abused), and I enjoy it. I know it’s more difficult for some of the others, so I’m always glad to travel.”

    6. Falling Diphthong*

      I think you should try being a little more direct, that you would like to take this one on rather than it’s no problem.

      This is an interesting dynamic. On the one hand, it’s good to recognize that you can enjoy X and barely tolerate Y and a coworker might have the opposite preferences, and you adjust the workload to reflect that. On the other hand, people can get really frustrated that they volunteer to helpfully handle more X and then all of the X is poured on them nonstop, so it’s good of your manager to be aware and avoiding that.

    7. only acting normal*

      Echoing the other replys: Be direct, say you actively like it rather than “don’t mind”.

      I find it refreshing that your boss is assuming (wrongly) that it’s a hassle. My work hard-sells it as a perk of the job. Some people do like it, but there is a growing contingent of us that challenge that “perk” status, especially as work trips are mostly death-by-powerpoint in a windowless room.
      I once had a grandboss send me on a 2 week work trip (because he didn’t want to go), then proceed to repeatedly call it my “holiday”. I’d actually cancelled a long weekend with my husband for it. Grandboss only got mild stink-eye (because he held the keys to promotion), but I was *this* close to snapping doing/saying something unfortunate.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      It’s fine that your boss thinks your a team player. Tell her that you don’t mind and this can be your unique contribution to the team. Explain that you live a lot closer, you like the travel and it helps everyone that you do this.
      I don’t see anything wrong with adding a little more explanation here to persuade her. You might even go as far as saying, “I am not saying this just to be nice, I really mean it.”

      I had people who would take on stuff that others did not like to do, so what I did was pass different work to the other people. After a bit, it settled into people volunteering to take up work that others did not want. (Because a person would say, “Well if Jane is going to do X for us, then I will take on Y for us.”) I think it kind of evened out in the end.

    9. ..Kat..*

      Above advice is good, but please make sure you are being adequately compensated for your time and expenses. Just because you don’t mind does not mean you should not be paid for what is an inconvenience to most.

  9. harp+dash*

    Has anyone here started a small (or not small!) non-profit? I’m in the early stage but trying to move forward with a non-profit that will provide a specific item for families with children who have special needs. My main challenge so far is… how do people get started without any funding at all? Do you personally just eat the cost of the filing fees, etc? I can’t really do any fundraisers without having my 501c3 status, but I need money to get my 501c3 status…
    Also, any other feedback for starting an agency would be very much appreciated! I’ve worked in social services for about 10 years but this is a new endeavor for me.

    1. Bethlam*

      I would also love to hear about this. I actually have some funding already, but don’t have a clue how to get started. And harp+dash says, “I need money to get my 501c3 status.” What costs are involved in getting a 501c3 status?

      1. harp+dash*

        It’s really not a lot, just filing fees ($25 here, $25 there…) and I could certainly come out of pocket if needed, I was just hoping to set up more of a corporate divide immediately if possible.

      2. harp+dash*

        Actually, with a little more research (I’m drowning in research and paperwork over here!) it should be around $450 in my state.

        1. Anonanonanon*

          Out of the people I know who’ve started non-profits, most did some kind of fundraising so they could file. Think GoFundMe, finding a lawyer who will work pro bono because they have a personal connection to the cause, things like that. There are types of fundraising you can do legally before becoming a 501c3.

    2. Venus Supreme*

      I’ve never started my own non-profit, but I’m a non-profit fundraiser and I think one strategy to get your organization off the ground is to curate a strong, dedicated board of trustees. It’s through them that you’ll get the connections to major donors, foundations, and services that would otherwise be difficult to obtain. How to get strong board members? I’m not 100% sure, but I think it involves a hella ton of networking. I hope this helps!

      1. Lore*

        I agree with the idea to start with the board. In terms of early fundraising, I recommend looking into fiscal sponsorship. I’ve done it in an arts context only so the specific sponsor organizations I know would not be appropriate, but I’m sure there are others. Basically the fiscal sponsor operates as an umbrella organization for non-501c3 organizations that need to do to fundraising (and often have other services like access to accountants, or legal services, or ticketing services; whatever meets the needs of their population). They keep a percentage of your donations but it’s a great way to get started while your 501c3 is pending or while you’re building up the infrastructure that you need to qualify for a 501c3 in the first place.

        1. peachie*

          Yes, this is what I would suggest. (Like you, I’ve worked with it in an arts organization context, so I’m not sure if an organization like that exists for your purposes–but if it does, it’s a great resource to have while you’re working toward 501(c)3 status since you can basically operate like one.)

    3. Lily Rowan*

      You can ask friends to contribute without it being tax-deductible. Also, you’re going to need a board of directors and those people should also be contributing to the start-up costs, which are going to include running the organization for a while, because it will take a while to build a donor base, I’m sure.

      Good luck!

    4. Pup Seal*

      As someone who works at a dysfunctional non-profit:

      -Get a strong board of directors
      -Budget, budget, budget! I can’t emphasize how important it is to know your budget so you can plan ahead.
      -Build your network and build support
      -Figure out your short AND long term goals
      -Cherish each donation, even the small ones.
      -Try small fundraisers like trivial night or selling candy bars. You can do a google search for fundraiser ideas, and you’ll find a lot of small fundraiser ideas. You may not get much, but it’s a start and will help get your name out.
      -Once you start accomplishing your goals and in your case, helping special need children, thank your donors and tell them how your donation has helped these children. As your non-profit grows, your best donors will be your past donors.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      Does your mission relate to another non-profit? You could approach them to see if you could make a partnership.
      You can also look for grants. You really have to be good about writing grants and documenting everything if you receive one- we actually took a grant back from an organization that didn’t use the funds how they were supposed to.

      1. Becca*

        Yes to all of this!

        I’m on the board of a small nonprofit (link on my name if you’re interested!) that runs a week-long summer program for teens with Turner syndrome. We have a tax ID partnership with a national TS society, which has helped us get the word out for finding staff, board members, and participants. We have also benefited from personal donations (via check or online fundraising sites) and grants from medical companies. Hopefully this year we’ll get some from nonprofit giving foundations as well.

        If you live near an urban center, you should be able to find grant-writing workshops, but I would focus on getting a tax-exempt ID first so that you and your private donors don’t need to worry about taxes and so you can be eligible for grants specifically for nonprofits.

        Connect with the community as much as you can, since the people in that community (not just the parents, but with adults with those needs as well) will be the most interested in being a part of your effort. Plus, grant-giving foundations (who use sites like Guidestar) like to see that your board is comprised of people in the community you hope to serve.

        Good luck!

        1. harp+dash*

          What a great organization! I worked with a few girls with Turner syndrome at my previous job.

    6. Bree*

      It’s hard to know without more details, but I’m going to recommend you consider *not* starting your own non-profit. As someone who works in non-profit, quite frankly, there are too many of them. So many small non-profits just aren’t sustainable given all that competition for donors and grants, and aren’t able to survive or have a meaningful impact. Plus, the more distinct organizations there are, the more money goes to admin instead of the mission. For these reasons, there’s a significant trend towards amalgamation in the sector.

      Is there an existing organization you could partner with who does similar work or serves a similar population, and could add this specific item to their programs or services? You could work or volunteer with them. This would save you a lot of the set-up work and back office costs.

      1. harp+dash*

        I’ve definitely noticed more agencies merging in the last few years. This will be a small agency with minimal overhead (probably no employees for at least the forseeable future). There is one national group doing something similar, but I’m looking to go in a different direction and stay local. I haven’t been able to think of a local organization that I could partner with, although I’m certainly open to that option. There is one group that is already a non-profit, but for a variety of reasons, I don’t think it’s a good match to partner with.

        1. Bree*

          Maybe you’ve already done this, but I wonder about doing a bit of an audit of the needs of community you would serve, and asking about other groups they receive supports from as part of that process. This research might help you identify another group you could partner with – formally and informally – but even if it doesn’t, the data you gather will help you when you’re looking for funding/supporters/in-kind donations, etc.

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Totally agree with this, unless you have a concrete, well-tested plan for where your funding will come from (and in the long-term, not just for start-up costs).

    7. NJ Anon*

      I did it two years ago. I used my own funds to get up and running and then reimbursed myself later on.

    8. Ann O'Nemity*

      There are some great books and websites on this topic. I few pieces of advice to consider:

      (1) Find partners with money. Specifically, think of ways that your service or products fit into the goals and mission of other local nonprofits. Partner together on specific initiatives that could direct funding your way. They can pay you, and if they have 501(c)3 status they can write you in as a contractor or subaward on grants.
      (2) Find local foundations or venture capitalist firms that can provide start-up funds. Some of these do not require you to have your non-profit status immediately. Use your social services network to find someone who can open these doors for you – I bet one of your contacts knows someone.
      (3) Form a board for your nonprofit. Fill it with stakeholders from government, related nonprofits, community groups, and business. Make sure at least 50-75% of your board members have access to funding for donations, or the influence needed to get funding.

    9. Jillociraptor*

      One thing you might consider is getting fiscal sponsorship. That basically entails a 501(c)(3) being the umbrella organization for your project or fund. They extend their nonprofit status to you, and usually manage some of your infrastructure, for a percentage of your budget. (Sponsors vary in how they do this — mine is extremely generous and takes about 1%, I would say 4-5% is more typical.) Fiscal sponsors vary in what they do for you, but this eliminates the need to do all the 501(c)(3) paperwork, the annual 990, manage an independent board, all of that. The consultant that we worked with in launching our organization recommended that we start here, and we’re reconsidering whether we ever want to be an independent organization; it’s much more lean and efficient this way.

      That doesn’t fix your cash flow issue, though. I’ll second what others have shared about getting a great board of directors and leaning on them for fundraising. Just to be totally blunt, you need rich people who know rich people. You can get the true believers who aren’t going to give you tons of money or connect you to people with tons of money to be on your advisory board or to plan an event.

    10. JustaTech*

      I know this will sound like a joke but it’s not: have you read “Nonprofits for Dummies”? I don’t normally put much faith in that series, but I had to read it for a grad school class and it seemed like a good starting point on how to get started right as far as all the laws go. There’s also “Social Media for Social Good” on how to use social media for non-profits.
      Good luck!

      1. harp+dash*

        I will check that out, thank you! I’ve been working on the Nolo book for starting a non-profit.

  10. DD*

    The ongoing changes at work continue apace. A snail’s pace, anyway. After my grand-boss was let go, a few of us figured that it was only a matter of time before our immediate manager left, too. That came to pass this week. So right now there are vacancies the next three levels above me (currently filled by various interim people). I’ve also heard rumblings about “leaner times ahead” around things like conference funding and whatnot.

    Anyway, in the meantime, one of my peers is taking on some duties of my former manager; I suppose if they don’t eliminate or massively change the structure of our whole team, he’d be promoted to our manager. He’s a great guy and we work well together, but I have to admit it will be strange to report to him. We’ve been equals here since I started 6 months ago, as well as at a shared previous employer before that. But he’s been at this org a lot longer, so it makes sense.

    As for me, I don’t know what’s in store. The interim grand-boss sent me a note the other day asking for a quick chat. It turns out he may reassign me to a bigger project because he wants to showcase my skills. To whom, and to what end, I don’t know yet. All in all, though, the uncertainty’s nearly unbearable. My employer’s a big one in our town, and I’ve had friends tell me they’ve been hearing from other people they know that things are “miserable” at my org. I’m not quite miserable but I hate not knowing what’s going to happen. I wish they could pull off the band-aid. They announced that changes were afoot back in November and the slow roll is brutal.

    1. Rat Racer*

      I work in an organization that sheds org structures like feathers – so I know the feeling. There are lots of people who have left because they hate the “change is the only constant” mentality – and I can’t say I blame them.

      Is your main concern that you’re going to be laid off, or just not knowing whom you will report to? If it’s the latter, I’d say that if you enjoy your job and like your co-workers, it’s ok to surrender to the chaos for a while and let the chips fall. Especially since you’ve been there for less than a year, it seems like there’s little you can or should do to proactively engineer the outcome. I know how hard it is to wait for dust to settle though!

      1. DD*

        More fear of getting laid off. I was laid off last year and was unemployed for about 6 months before getting this job. I know that a lot of people where I am now really love my work and have been told that I have been identified as having leadership potential, blah blah blah, but at my last gig I could have said the same and it didn’t matter much because the decision to eliminate my whole team came from far enough up the chain that it didn’t matter.

        So when they talk about “showcasing” my skills, I don’t know if that’s because they want to expose me to the people who will be making these decisions as a kind of defensive gesture, or because they want to tap me for some larger role that will come out of this whole thing. Or maybe nothing.

    2. RVA Cat*

      Well, with the local grapevine saying things are “miserable” at your org, it should surprise no one if you started looking. Yes it’s only been 6 months, but I doubt you look like a job-hopper when there’s a major restructuring going on – esp. if you stayed a few years at your previous employers.

      1. DD*

        Unfortunately, I was at my previous employer for just a little less than a year before I got “restructured” out of the job. Then a little over a year at the place before that, and less than two years at the place before that.

        Plus, my experience after getting laid off the last time suggested that while employers find my skill set attractive, there aren’t many who are hiring for it–it’s something that’s a level of maturity above the smaller/mid-sized orgs, and the bigger ones that do have these kinds of roles are obviously fewer and farther between. I turned down a job offered by the other logical large employer when I was offered this one. (Got both offers in a span of a few days, and made a difficult decision.)

        I’m generally a worrier, though. I’m not miserable with my work–I actually enjoy what I do and the people I work with—I just find the uncertainty to be frustrating to deal with every day.

    3. JustaTech*

      Ugh, that sucks. I’ve been through it (twice at the same company!) and seen other people go through it.
      I would offer the usual advice about networking, resume freshening etc etc.
      Also, remember that future employers will not hold being laid off against you (unless you personally and alone caused the layoff by, I can’t even imagine how that would happen).
      Don’t be afraid to admit that the uncertainty sucks! Lack of control over big parts of your life is known to be hard on your health, so don’t ignore it or blame yourself.

  11. MegaMoose, Esq*

    Networking for Introverts Update!

    This was definitely a week where the *for introverts* part made my big networking push a real drag. My last three coffees have been with former classmates, so it had a “catching up” quality that made things easier. This last meeting was just me, hat in hand, asking for job advice or “making a connection” or whatever the heck I’m supposed to be doing, and it was pretty awkward. The person I met with is in the area of law I’m hoping to move into, but has the kind of public job I’ve been unsuccessfully trying to get for the past five years. It seemed to turn into a lot of commiserating over how hard it is to get those public jobs but how great they are once you get them, which did not feel like it was advancing my goal of broadening my horizons. And it turns out I was getting sick on top of everything, so I went home and got into a stupid fight with my partner. Fun!

    I think part of what makes networking so unappealing for me is both the exhausting nature of interacting with people and the discomfort of not really knowing what my role is in these interactions. I *get* that meeting people is a big part of being a lawyer, and I *get* that most people are happy to help up-and-comers, and I *get* that most people are happy to talk about themselves and their work. But no matter how much I tell myself that, I still run into the little monster voice that says that I am wasting their time, that they will see though me and realize how awkward and unsuited I am for this. And then I’m not just making a bad impression, I’m also draining my precious energy for nothing.

    I’ve been told over and over that this is the way to find work in private practice so I’m going to keep at it, but that doesn’t make it any easier. So this afternoon I’ve got my second meeting with a “new” contact – a solo practitioner who office-shares with the classmate I met back at the beginning of this big push. I’m trying not to let myself get too psyched out. I’m pretty sure my monster brain is lying to me, and this is something I can do. I don’t have anything else lined up for now, so I’ll try and take the weekend to recharge and then come at this again fresh next week.

    1. chocolate lover*

      I really liked Devora Zack’s book “Networking for People Who Hate Networking: A Field Guide for Introverts, the Overwhelmed, and the Underconnected.” It helped me think of things that may be more comfortable for me, and to teach my introverted students.

    2. JustaTech*

      Hey Moose, just remember that some times brains are jerks and you have to tell them to just shut up. (How successful that is varies.)
      But you have really inspired me to actually reach out to a high school alum (we didn’t overlap, but we have mutual friends) and ask her for coffee and how she got her previous job at the place I want to work.
      And I’m going to come up with 3 really specific questions too! How did you get in, how long did the process take, how easy is it to transfer among departments.
      And now that I’ve said it here I have to do it.

      1. MegaMoose, Esq*

        Thanks – the jerkbrain can be a jerk, for sure. I’ve set a rule that I need to do at least one thing a week that an objective outsider would classify as networking (so game night doesn’t count) and so far I’ve stuck to it for two months. If it gets easier it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m pretty sure the jerk is lying about it being a counterproductive waste of time.

    3. LawCat*

      Rooting for you MegaMoose!

      If this isn’t too nosy a question, what area of public law are you trying to get into? (Not sure if I might have any insight, but I have spent my legal career in gov’t service.)

      1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

        I’ve been trying for internal advisory jobs primarily, so my state’s nonpartisan legislative offices have been my main target – I’ve also interviewed a couple of times for the (federal) house office of legislative counsel and senate parliamentarian. Staff attorney positions for various agencies, occasionally I’ve gotten interviews for city or county attorney offices.

        I’m trying to branch my search out into civil rights law, but I’ve been so focused on public jobs I’m kind of lost at sea for how one gets hired in the private sector. Thus my networking journey.

            1. LawCat*

              You might like drafting regulations. Agencies involved with highly regulated industries are typically involved in writing regulations. Things that spring to mind: health care, insurance, anything involved with producing hazardous material.

              Also, is there a particular entity responsible for writing rules of court where you are? I am sure this is highly state specific, but my experience is that drafting such rules involves a very legislative-like process so that might be something worth looking into as well.

              1. MegaMoose, Esq*

                I’ve been keeping an eye out for regulatory jobs, but haven’t had an enormous amount of luck finding them, and the ones I have found around here have generally asked for experience in the specific field – I’ve tried for a few and struck out even getting my foot in the door. I’m actually not sure about rules of court, I should check that out. I *think* they’re done by special committees, but I’m not positive.

  12. Rat Racer*

    I have a colleague, Mike, who is more or less a peer – perhaps slightly junior to me – who sends the most maddeningly condescending emails, and my blood is boiling. The issue is a data discrepancy: his numbers say “X” mine say “X-2%.” Here’s what he wrote to me this morning, after I had clearly documented the methodology I used to get to X-2%:

    “Not sure what edits you made to the data, but want to make sure that we’re VERY clear about whatever edits are. VP’s email is consistent with the numbers I’ve seen from [Direct Report], so I am assuming you made some other adjustments that we need to know about.” (emphasis mine, capital letters are his)

    Maybe this doesn’t seem like blood boiling material – it’s in the context of a long stream condescending emails that never fail to convey that he thinks I’ve screwed something up. Do you think it’s a good idea to let Mike know how his emails are coming across to me? Or should I just continue my current MO:
    1) receive email
    2) seethe
    3) write several drafts of response until I can scrub out any traces of passive aggression
    4) wash/rinse/repeat

    1. Lizzle*

      Hoping others will weigh in, because I’m not sure my response is the best, but I would probably get really direct about what he’s saying without addressing how it makes you feel.

      “Hi, Mike. I sent you my calculations earlier; did you see those? I think it’s quite clear if you look at [Y, Z factors] how I got to X-2%. What is it about how I got to those numbers that you’re missing?”

      Additionally, do you understand where he’s getting his numbers? If you can see where the discrepancy is occurring, addressing what the different assumptions/methods/etc. are that lead to the different results might be useful.

      1. TL -*

        Yeah I would do this – just politely point out he already has the needed information.
        Or better yet, just forward the original email or link and put, “see below. I think it’s fairly clear/simple, but let me know what confused you.”

        1. Jadelyn*

          I LOVE this one – the “let me know what confused you” kind of shoves some of that condescension back at him by implying he clearly just doesn’t understand what you’ve already explained.

        2. LKW*

          That was going to be my suggestion. If you’ve provided the information and he still doesn’t get it – then very politely call that out.

          “I outlined the adjustments in my earlier email. Please see where I’ve bolded/highlighted the information. If you are still having difficulties understanding the discrepancy, do not hesitate to reach out to me.”

          Translation: The info is there you idiot. But if you can’t understand it, I can explain it like you were five. No prob.

      2. Bagpuss*

        I like Lizzle’s suggestion.
        You could even go with:

        “Hi Mike,
        I agree that it is important to be clear about edits. I sent you a detailed breakdown of my methodology with my e-mailed dated /timed XX . I think if you look through that you should find it answers your questions, but if you are still unclear, let me know which part of that breakdown isn’t clear, and ‘ll be happy to go over it with you.
        Alternatively, if you want to suggest an alternative method, or to include any additional aactors, let me know what they are and i can review”

        Has he given you a breakdown of his method? if he hasn’t, perhaps you can add “in any event, please let me have a breakdown of the methodology and figures you used, as I will then be able to see why we are reaching slightly different outcomes, and we can review whether any changes are required”

        That way, it is friendly and helpful but also makes clear that you have already shown him how the figures are reached, and puts the ball back in his court to identify what, specifically, he has an issue with .

        I think you could also (separately) consider having a conversation with him where you actually say “I am sure you don’t intend it that way, but some of the e-mails you send come across as quite rude and condescending. I’m happy to answer questions if you don’t understand why I have done things in a particular way, or to provide information to make sure that we are working on the same assumptions and data, but it would generally come across better if you simply asked for further information or advice when you need it, rather than assuming that something has been overlooked or deliberately withheld from you. ” (I’;m sure you could adjust the wording for the specifics of how your office works, and the type of things he is commenting on. )

    2. Mongoose*

      Any chance you can follow-up in person? I find that people who write these sorts of emails are often hiding behind them and an in-person follow-up, being as polite and friendly as can be, gets the problem solved and establishes that there is no malice in your changes/edits.
      If that doesn’t work, keep following your current MO, keep a trail of these emails, and if the trend continues flag your boss.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This, this. If they know you are going to darken their doorway every time they send one of these emails they start to think twice. I blame it on email itself- “oh you know how much can get lost in writing in email, it’s just faster and more accurate to speak in person.”

      2. Clever Name*

        This! One of my email rules is when I’m struggling to formulate an email, that’s a sign I just need to talk to them. Another is anything contentious or emotional should be discussed in person. It’s harder in the moment but makes things easier overall.

      3. Paxton Sparrow*

        I typically find that this is the best way to go about it. I had a collegue who would always knee jerk respond to my emailed analysis with “this can’t be correct” whenever her numbers looked bad. I would reply all to the email saying I would set a meeting and anyone else who would like to join was welcome. After the meeting I would reply all with the resolution – typically that we came to an agreement that my analysis was correct or there was a tagging issue from her team but if I was incorrect I admitted it.

        This made her become the girl who cried wolf while enhancing my reputation for analysis, dealing with difficult people, and clear communication.

    3. paperfiend*

      I’d address it. Fairly directly, too. (Seething isn’t useful for anyone).

      “I included my methodology in my email from the morning of the 5th. Since that was in the middle of our ongoing email conversation, here’s a recap: I am working with assumptions X and Y, and making Z correction. The numbers [direct report] has provided use assumptions B and C, which results in the different number.”

      1. Casuan*

        Rat Racer, what you’re doing isn’t working then change what you’re doing. People like Mike drive me bonkers & often such challenges are to try to make themselves look competent &or important.

        I like Lizzle’s & paperfiends’ replies. If you think Mike would respond better if you asked him in person then do that.
        If he is cc’ing these challenges to others, consider cc’ing them in your reply. Or better yet wait until the matter is resolved then send something like “To keep you in the loop, I was asked to qualify my data & this was resolved. The data set in my calculations was correct.”

        I don’t think you should say “I think what I wrote is clear” because that sounds a bit defensive & it really might not be clear to him. Just ask what he doesn’t understand & offer to walk him through it.

        Personally I think the less words you use with him the better. Anything else will probably get translated like you’re a Charlie Brown schoolteacher “Wah wah wah…”].

        At some point, you might want to ask if you can pop in his office or ring him when he has a few minutes to clarify a few things. Tell him you’d like to know why he continually challenges your data &or methodology so you can clarify your sources, et cetera.

        Glad things are resolved now!!
        Hopefully you can change your MO!!

        re your current MO:
        Lol!!
        I can relate :-)

    5. Rat Racer*

      Well the data issue just resolved – Mike was using (what I would argue) is an inappropriate calculation to get to his numbers. I think he was using this questionable methodology because he team screwed something up this year, and the bigger X is, the better it is for them. Now it’s up to the VPs to battle it out. Bottom line:

      a) it wasn’t a data discrepancy
      b) if Mike had actually read my email, he would have known as much
      c) I don’t care who’s right or wrong, I’m just sick of being talked down to by a business partner

      @Mongoose: Mike is totally fine in person, it’s just his emails that get my back up. Which is why I’m debating saying something to him vs. working on myself. As in “I can’t control the tone of Mike’s emails, I can only control how I respond to the tone of Mike’s emails…” But perhaps the next time Mike sends an email presuming error on my part, I’ll gently remind him of the outcome the last time he presumed blame.

      1. CAA*

        Does he cc anyone else on these emails that are so condescending? If he does, I’d say that it’s worth bringing up to him because he’s smearing your reputation with others. Even if it’s unintentional on his part, it’s probably damaging enough to say something like “I don’t know if you realize how you come across in emails like this one…”

        If nobody else sees these emails, then I would grit my teeth and respond politely.

      2. The Rat-Catcher*

        Some people come across completely differently in person and in email. I try to read the email in the person’s usual tone/manner of speaking in such cases and I find that it helps.
        But I agree with CAA – that’s just if it’s between the two of you. If he is CCing others and trying to make you look incompetent, then you have every right to set the record straight with them included – it’s not as if you invited them to watch him be wrong.

      3. EngineerInNL*

        OMG there’s a Michael that I have to deal with on a pretty regular basis that is also rude and condescending in emails (maybe it’s like the Sarah thing except this is a Mike/Michael?). This guy is also perfectly nice and polite in person which I have to constantly remind myself while reading emails from him, I think some people just don’t quite grasp how they can come across in email form.

  13. Audiophile*

    Happy Friday!

    I have no major issues, though the temp I work near was giving a “note” by a temp from another department. It basically thanked her for being beautiful and nice, and left a phone number. It’s not my issue to solve, so I’m staying out of it. It definitely would have made me uncomfortable.

      1. Audiophile*

        Aforementioned temp spent a lot of time looking for other temp, joked that he must have scared her off (he isn’t aware that I know about the note). It came out from someone else in my cube section that temp commmented on their appearance.

  14. Should I stay or should I go?*

    How do you tell it is time to move on from your job when you have the best manager ever?

    I’m not very happy at work – my job has changed a lot since I started ~ 3 years ago, my position is unique, so I don’t have anywhere to go in my company and the pay hasn’t kept up with the crazy COL increases where I live. I absolutely love my manager though. I come from a long line of really bad bosses and I know how hard a good boss is to find. I am scared to move onto a bad situation with another bad boss because ultimately they can make or break your career…

    Am I just afraid of change? Recovering from old-job-PTSD? How can I objectively determine what I should do next?

    1. Squeeble*

      Would you be able to talk to your manager about it? If you have a strong relationship, they may be able to help you navigate this. Even if they can’t do much about the pay or the work you’re doing, maybe they can give you some guidance on what to do next or put you in contact with someone in their network. Of course, this all depends on how honest you want to be with your manager.

    2. K.*

      Can you talk to your manager about opportunities for advancement, new duties, increased responsibility, etc.?

    3. Amber Rose*

      I’d say you’re being a little over cautious. If you don’t like your job as such but you’re happy with your manager and not actively suffering, you’re in a pretty advantageous situation. You can job hunt and be really picky, get all the info, really make sure you’re excited about new opportunities and a new boss before moving on. Just because you look for a new job doesn’t mean you have to move fast on it after all.

      The reasons you listed for not liking your job much are excellent reasons to me for moving on. Don’t let the one good thing about it convince you to settle for something less than you feel like you can do.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        Yeah, starting to look does not equal quitting immediately! See what’s out there!

        1. Casuan*

          Agree!!

          Also hermit crab makes an excellent point in that your amazing boss probably won’t be there forever.

    4. only acting normal*

      Could you frame it to yourself more like: A) you have survived X bad bosses, B) best manager ever is evidence that there are good bosses out there. So if you ever end up with another bad boss 1) you know you will survive [exhibit A], 2) you know you can go on to find another good boss [exhibit B].

      I’ve survived bad bosses (just!), it does take time to recover from the experience, but at you also probably learned some warning signs to look out for in future.

      1. Should I stay or should I go?*

        I like this approach a lot! I will definitely try to frame it this way.

    5. hermit crab*

      Another thing to factor in is that your amazing boss might not be there forever either. People leave jobs! Jobs aren’t forever! I had, hands-down, the best manager ever (sorry, everyone else who thinks they had the best manager ever, because mine was better!) and she left me. I mean, she left the job. I’m not still taking it personally, not at all. :)

  15. Crankypants*

    Ok. I may be wildly out of touch about this, I am an admin and sit in a reception like area in academic setting. I don’t get much traffic from outsiders/studnents but I’m getting to the point where constant interruptions from my coworkers are starting to impact my job satisfaction and day to day moods. I work with a staff of about 23, all very nice people and well meaning but feel the need to say something/wave to me almost every time they walk into the office space (where I sit). This morning has been 7 times already (all small talk, non work related). I also sit near the kitchen so every time something new is brought in I get at least 10 questions about it. Or if someone is waiting for their water to boil, they will come chat with me. I started keeping an interruption log yesterday and am logging every time my concentration is broken and whether or not it relates to my job. I work a lot with numbers and spreadsheets and am getting frustrated when I am clearly concentrating but someone still asks me a question like how was your weekend? what are you doing this weekend? (small talk/not to do with work). I’m interested to see if I am over exaggerating and just have to suck it up, which I have been doing. If the results are really surpising like 5/hour this morning and it’s not just me being cranky, should I bring this to my boss, how would I frame this? I don’t know the resolution and I wouldn’t want people to be afraid to talk to me or overly cautious. I would just like a fewer interruptions so I can concentrate. I do wear headphones, sometimes with no music playing but I still want to maintain some level of approachability.

    1. animaniactoo*

      I can make you a sign for your desk/outside your office/cubicle?

      “Concentrating in Progress:
      Please interrupt ONLY for work-related questions”

      After that, I would be really clear to take your breaks and be available to chat *in the kitchen* when you’re on a break, so that there’s sort of a delineating line between “available to be social” and “available to facilitate work”.

      You may come off as a bit of a curmudgeon, but it’s pretty easy to explain to people that due to your location, many people stop by and it’s the flow you can’t deal with vs them personally. Most of them should understand that and take it well.

      1. Crankypants*

        I really can’t tell if this is just Part Of The Job or something I/we can do something about. I like the sign suggestion, sometimes it’s just outbursts of Happy Friday! or OOOH what’s in the kitchen! without looking in my direction but close enough to still distract. But anything that curbs it even a little will make me happier.

        1. AdminWithPotential*

          I am trying to master this always concentrated serious don’t eff with me demeanor that hasn’t been off putting (yet).

          Its just the weird world of sitting in a “Front Desk” position that people don’t think you have like actual work and you are there to be their 15 minute break.

          1. Crankypants*

            lol same! one time I was really under a deadline and quite stressed about it (probably the #1 time I’ve been most stressed at work) and one of my coworkers said, “you look stressed” and tried lingered to chat about it? like thanks! but yes I am let me get back to what I’m doing!

            Still working on that face.

            I think now lately, even high skilled admins are just absorbing reception duties/position. My position requires a lot of budgeting, reporting, and at times confidential information but they need someone to sit out here in case we get a visitor (doesn’t happen often).

    3. Grits McGee*

      Our amazing department admin from my graduate program actually put up a sign that said she was concentrating, please don’t distract her unless it’s an emergency. (It was more friendly than that, but it definitely got the point across.)

    4. Karenina*

      I don’t think you should suck it up. At my last job I was in a similar position for a long time, sitting up at the front desk but also handling a lot of other tasks beyond basic reception duties. It took some coaching for me to start responding to people’s (very friendly!) chatter by simply saying: “I don’t mean to be rude, I’m just very focused right now. Can we chat later?”

      And, no exaggeration, absolutely no one reacted to this by thinking I was unapproachable or inappropriate. Most of them were apologetic that they’d interrupted me (because most people know what it feels like to be interrupted when they’re trying to focus), and certainly weren’t going to push and insist that I listen to non-work-related stories and chitchat if I didn’t have the time to spare from my duties.

      As for all the questions about something new in the kitchen, you could try sending an email to the staff about things like that when they come in (I’m not sure what you’re referring to, so not sure if that would be helpful). Then when you get interrupted, you can really breezily say: “Oh, I talked about that in the email I sent this morning! If you have any questions, could you reply to that email?”

      It may seem a little off-putting to some when you start drawing some gentle boundaries, because it isn’t what they’re used to from you. But I would not bring this to your boss if you have not tried just telling people you need to work, and I would stop writing an interruption log. That is going to seem a lot stranger and more aggressive than I think you realize.

    5. Newton Geizler*

      Have you been telling your coworkers to stop in the moment? If not, I would try that before going to your boss. For all the small talk interruptions, you can gently rebuff people with ‘Sorry, I need to focus right now’ or ‘Ask me on my lunch break! I need to concentrate on this’ or some other variation that you’re comfortable with. Over time you might be able to train them to stop interrupting you.

    6. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      I sympathize, I get this too. And when there’s a weather event happening, especially major ones that might be coming, I get no less than 15 people that want to discuss it. I did tell one person to go to accuweather.com if she need further info. You could try the sign suggestion that animaniactoo suggested, but I tried it and it didn’t work, not even a little bit. You could talk to your manager, maybe he/she could either make suggestions or perhaps send an e-mail on your behalf regarding the interruptions.

      1. animaniactoo*

        The thing about the sign is that you have to reinforce it with additional words and actions. “Pardon me, I can’t chat right now, I really need to concentrate on this. That’s why I put up the sign!” in a decently cheerful tone (at least the first few times that particular person ignores the sign).

    7. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      I’m in a similar position. I spoke with the Dept Chair and asked her for suggestions. She took the initiative to have cubicle panels brought in around my area. It’s about 5 feet tall around my desk except for a “window” area that is 36 inches. She also brought it up at a department faculty meeting, pointing out rightfully that if all 15 of my faculty stopped for a 5 minute chat every morning, that’s 75 minutes of chatting and not working I’m doing, even if you don’t factor in the transition time in between.

      While I waited for the panels to be delivered and setup, my chair suggested I wear headphones at key times. We noticed arrivals around 8:30-9 am and snacks around 2pm were the worst interruptions, so I would put headphones on during that time to discourage interruptions.

      1. Celeste*

        I like this suggestion a lot. If anyone says something about it, you can say how happy you are having some privacy, because you really couldn’t get your work done easily in the fishbowl. I think the words privacy and fishbowl will resonate with people and they’ll grasp that you had a problem that needed a solution. Good luck!

      2. CrazyEngineerGirl*

        I like this a lot too. And if you’re already keeping an interruption log of sorts for yourself, consider writing down the exact times if you’re not already doing so. This could help you identify similar problem times.

    8. Ann O'Nemity*

      I bet most people think they’re being polite. And there’s using you for a little social interaction. They probably haven’t considered that you’re getting that multiple times a day from 23 people. I agree with the sign suggested above. And you may want to have a direct conversation with some of the worst offenders – “Hi Bob. You know, I like catching up with you but I’m finding that I’m getting interrupted by staff members over 100 times a day and it’s interfering with my ability to concentrate and get my work done. Of course I’ll stop what I’m doing if anyone has a work-related issue, but otherwise I need to focus on my own work. Thanks for understanding.”

    9. Rocky*

      Don’t know if it’s an option for you, but one of our admins got permission to block out time to work in a more hidden cubicle because of stuff like this.

    10. Lily Rowan*

      I’m just glad to read this, because I worry our receptionist thinks I’m rude because I DON’T say something every time I walk by!

    11. Franzia Spritzer*

      I have worked in two offices where I had a similar problem, in both cases the same solution worked for me. I had a red flag and a green flag (little pennant shaped guys), that I put out to indicate “do not disturb”, and “cool to approach”, respectively. In another office, where I was deep in cubicle land I put a tiara on to indicate that I was a special thinky princess and to not interrupt my concentration, which worked great! (I was writing code in all cases.) A sign was too many words! The flags were immediate and easy codes to read from afar.

    12. Champage_Dreams*

      I was in this exact same position and I kept that exact same log. I presented it to my boss along with the research that each interruption sets a person’s productivity back by 15 minutes, meaning I was literally going backwards. Within a month we had a new receptionist to sit up front and I had my own office.

  16. Negotiating Pay Raise for Promotion*

    Two weeks ago I was offered a promotion. I would be going from analyst/direct service to managing a program and the 5 employees in that department. When my boss offered me the job, she said that she did not know the exact salary raise but that it would be “quite a bump”. Without knowing the salary, I of course did not officially accept but I said I was interested.

    Well, this week she told me that I get paid more than she thought that I did, and that this would be a “lateral move” with a maybe $2000 raise. (exact salary offer STILL pending, btw, which is annoying in its own right.) It’s true that I get paid more than average for my current position, but that is because I have valuable skills and have always done more than the official job description.

    I am obviously very disappointed and expressed that to the manager. She asked if I could commit to the job and I said absolutely not without knowing the salary. Basically I don’t know how hard to go if they really offer a mere $2000 over what I currently make. The fact is, she does need me (I actually designed the whole program I’ll be managing, and she recently got assigned to it). But I also don’t want to essentially get demoted by letting someone else take over the project I created.

    Fwiw, this is a nonprofit, but one with a decent budget.

    1. Learning Grasshopper*

      Figure out 2 things
      1. What is your bottom line to take the job
      2. How would you fell if you DIDN’T take the job and someone else moved into that position?

      good luck, tough call

    2. Dogwood*

      Only $2000? “Maybe”?

      I work at a non-profit and got around $4k-$5k more when I went to managing a program and one employee. I’d definitely let others weigh in, too, but $2k for five people and managing a program seems really insufficient, if only because managing people can be so so so so many more headaches.

      If I were in a position like this, and basing this off of my own experience, I would rather let someone take over a project I created than risking becoming manager for 5 people and all the issues that come along with them (even if they’re good people, there will be issues–that’s just how humans are) for only $2000 before taxes.

    3. Juli G.*

      This is my biggest pet peeve as an HR manager.

      DO NOT TALK SALARY INCREASE IF YOU DON’T KNOW THEIR SALARY!

      I’m not saying that you would be okay with 2K but maybe you would have been if your expectation had been set there instead of at 10k. So demoralizing.

    4. AndersonDarling*

      If they had to hire someone from the outside, would a reasonable salary be your salary+$2,000? If someone from the outside would get more, then I wouldn’t take the added responsibility and let the employer cheap-out. Let them hire someone else.
      But if that would be a reasonable salary, then I would consider taking the promotion. If your current salary is a bit inflated, then I can understand why they can’t offer more. And if you take the promotion, it could be a stepping stone for more opportunities, and … as a manager you could be eligible for more benefits like bonuses.

    5. Bruce H.*

      Five direct reports is pretty much a full time job, unless the team is already functioning at a very high level. Would you be happy giving up a large part of your creative/technical work to spend time managing people?

      For most of my career, I would not have done my boss’s jobs for less than three times what they were paid.

    6. Clever Name*

      Wow, that’s a measly pay bump. I got a $3000 raise this year and it wasn’t attached to a promotion, just an “atta-girl” raise.

  17. Lizzle*

    I’m about to start looking for a new job. I am open to taking a pay cut for a better fit and better work/life balance, but I am not open to taking too much of a cut to my (fairly generous) vacation time.

    How negotiable is vacation time when starting a new job? One of the places I’m most interested in applying is a state university, so I would be a government employee. Does that take this kind of negotiation off the table? And does anyone have any tips for starting that conversation once I have an offer? Would I need to choose between negotiating pay and negotiating time off, should I do both separately, or should I roll them into a comprehensive conversation somehow?

    Having limited experience in job-hopping, it looks to me as if people are generally expected to rise in salary across organizations but start at square one on vacation time every time they change jobs. Any thoughts on this?

    1. Alex*

      I can’t speak for all state universities, but at mine, employees earn a set number of vacation hours based on their length of service. If you are just starting out, you would earn the minimum amount. So it’s not really negotiable. That information should be available on the university’s HR website. You also get federal holidays and any school closings like over winter break. In addition to sick leave, my university also provides leave for military service, volunteering, and a few other categories that don’t necessarily apply to everyone, but it’s nice to know they are available.

      1. Aphrodite*

        I agree. It doesn’t matter if you are management or classified (union); the benefits are set. You get so many vacation hours per year and at least for classified they go up based on your length of service. There is no negotiating on anyone’s part.

        1. Aphrodite*

          But I also want to add that at the community college I work at we have very generous leave: 16 holidays per year plus a starting minimum of eight sick days per year (one per month can be accumulated to an unlimited number) plus the vacation days beginning at a minimum of eight hours per month and increasing over time to 24 days per year).

      2. PB*

        I agree. I have worked for three state universities now, and this has been the case at all of them. You can negotiate other aspects (pay, of course, and sometimes professional development travel), but PTO is set in stone.

    2. Justme*

      Agree with Alex. Sick, vacation, and salary are basically non-negotiable when working for a state entity.

    3. Bye Academia*

      I work in an academic-adjacent job at a public university, and vacation/benefits are not negotiable at all here. They’re determined by the union contract. However, because the union is very good, I get more vacation time than I would have thought to ask for.

      I’m sure the situation varies at different universities, but at least at mine, it would have been out of touch to try to negotiate vacation or benefits right off the bat. If you get to the offer stage, I would start by gathering information. Ask how much PTO you will get if the offer doesn’t specify. Then ask whether the salary/PTO is negotiable. You may be told they have salary bands, etc. and that there is no wiggle room, but if they respond favorably then you could suggest changes.

      In my case, the contract is freely available on the union’s website. You could try googling to see if there is something similar for the university you’re applying to. Either way, might as well apply. You never know how it will go!

      1. Alex*

        I forget that unions are thing for some people. They pretty much don’t exist in my neck of the woods. At what point does the union become involved in the hiring process or how does that work?

        1. Amber Rose*

          Unions aren’t normally involved in the hiring process directly. It’s just that union agreements lay out things like wages, raises, vacation time, etc. for all employees, and since those agreements are basically binding contracts there isn’t a ton of flexibility in them one way or another.

        2. Bye Academia*

          The union isn’t involved in our hiring process at all. That’s all done through HR and the relevant department. The only way it came into play for me was that my salary negotiations had to end up in the relevant salary band in the union contract.

        3. Creag an Tuire*

          Assuming you’re in the US, the union [i]cannot[/i] be “involved” in the hiring process, at least in the sense of determining if you get the job — that would be a “closed shop” which is illegal under Taft-Hartley. (You’d likely be entering a “union shop” where all employees in the bargaining unit must pay dues to cover union costs, but where the union in turn must represent anyone the employer hires into the unit.)

          As others have said, you will not be able to bargain salary or benefits individually on hire, because these are bargained collectively. The only [i]possible[/i] wiggle room would be if the contract allows starting salary to vary based on years of experience and if there is potential ambiguity over what management could count as “experience” for purposes of salary placement (this is also about the only situation where I could see the union getting involved pre-hire, though that’s extremely rare).

          Of course, if you’re keen to bargain your raise down the road, join the union as a member (unless you’re in a “Right-To-Work” state you’re paying the dues anyway) and try to get on the next bargaining team. In my experience with unions, there won’t be people lining up to do the job and the local president will probably be grateful for somebody stepping up. :)

        4. helper*

          generally, the union specifies certain parameters for each grade — and each open position is assigned a grade (like a catagory the job fits into). Like, “teapot maker grade d, teapot designer, grade b” and so on. Each one of those will have a set starting salary with a set increase for length of service. benefits are generally set as well. The union is involved in negotiating what the standards are for each grade, so they don’t need to get involved in the individual hiring — it’s already known up front exactly what the parameters are based on the grade.

          1. Alex*

            So if you apply for a job at a university that has some kind of union presence, do you have to join the union when you get an offer or do you just benefit from the fact that the union did all the work for you?

            1. Creag an Tuire*

              You do not have to technically “join” the union but you would pay dues to cover the cost of bargaining, representation, etc. (Some unions will lump in these “feepayers” into their membership count.) Unless you are in a “Right-To-Work” state, in which case it is your solemn right to benefit from their work for free.

              1. Gadfly*

                For now, depending on a few court cases… Although the SCOTUS does not appear poised to go down a union friendly route…

      2. Lizzle*

        The starting leave benefits are pretty clear, but it was my impression that most jobs have a standard that can then be deviated from (by, for instance, putting someone in at a higher seniority level). The starting leave is not very good (less than 2 weeks), but it goes up steeply in year 3. I unfortunately have just given 3 years to another organization where the leave allowance also goes up at year 3–and am really giving the side-eye to the idea of starting over.

        1. Bye Academia*

          I think that will depend. At my university, everyone who is hired starts with the same amount of leave. It increases with years of service at the university, not seniority. But that may not be the case everywhere. Never know until you ask.

    4. Bethlam*

      I can’t speak to what goes on in a state university and YMMV, but . . . my company is closing the location where I work in July and we started furloughing employees last September. Everyone who wanted another job has secured one (some opted for early retirement), with varying success in driving distance, salary, and benefits. But everyone lost vacation. That’s partly because we have a very generous vacation policy; a few people have only 3 weeks; almost everyone has 4-6 weeks.

      Two employees, who each had 6 weeks, negotiated with their new companies and managed to negotiate 3 weeks of vacation – so, by negotiating, they only lost 3 weeks. But almost everyone else got really hosed. Another employee, who also had 6 weeks, went to a company where they don’t give you any until after you’ve been there a year. He negotiated very hard and they finally conceded to give him 1 week to start, but other employees weren’t able to negotiate anything beyond what the company’s policy was for any starting employee, many of which is no vacation until after your first year and then you get one week.

      While we’re all unhappy about losing our jobs for a lot of obvious reasons, we all know that none of us will find new employers who will match what we’ve got vacation-wise; we just hope we can do as well as those who managed to negotiate for 3 weeks.

    5. MsEsq*

      As a former state university employer (and still working in higher ed) I think you will find when you look at the vacation offered you likely won’t have to negotiate. This is what I got and is similar to what I have at a private school:

      all state/national holidays off with pay (10 a year) + 25 days vacation + 10 days sick time + university closure at Christmas (paid between the 24-1, no need to take vacation)

      In fact, as someone who didn’t really have money to travel/visit others, I almost struggled to take all my vacation time!

      1. Lizzle*

        Wow! Their website says 7 days vacation (plus federal holidays), and both my husband and I have out-of-state family so that was feeling a bit tight to me. But it could be they are not accounting for university closures.

        1. MsEsq*

          That sounds a bit tight to me as well, based on where I’ve worked and interviewed… especially for a state school! You should try and find out about closure, though, since that is a time when you’re pretty much guaranteed to have to use vacation.

    6. Rocky*

      Just chiming in to say that in state employment I’m familiar with, vacation time is not negotiable for all the reasons already mentioned, but ***unpaid leave*** can be negotiated. I’ve seen many instances of that.

    7. JGray*

      Usually in the public sector vacation or sick leave isn’t negotiable. But most places I have worked in the public sector (or non-profit) actually have better benefits than the private sector. That is part of the reason that I left my private sector job for my public sector job. I actually did the math and the wage in private sector was a little higher but when I factored in vacation/sick leave/what I paid for my benefits I actually made less money in the private sector than what I make now.

    8. Cordelia Naismith*

      I work for a state university, and negotiation, either for pay or benefits, isn’t really a thing. I mean, it doesn’t hurt to try — some jobs on campus are more open to negotiation than others — but I wouldn’t really expect to be able to. Pay and vacation are tied directly to your job title. For instance, all Teapot Maker I employees have the same pay/benefts. We do get annual COLA raises now – although those were frozen for many years — but the only way to get a promotion is to move from one job to another job on campus. You can’t stay in the same job and be promoted from Teapot Maker I to Teapot Maker II if the job duties haven’t changed.

      Also, university staff are notoriously underpaid. It’s particularly bad at my university; we are underpaid even when compared with comparable state universities, not just when compared with private sector jobs.

      I love my job and my office, but I’m thinking about applying for a Teapot Maker II job that just opened up in a different office across campus purely for the promotion.

      1. Cordelia Naismith*

        Oh, I want to clarify — when I said you might be able to negotiate, I meant the pay. Vacation time isn’t negotiable. But it’s plentiful, so that’s okay with me. I accrue 8 hours of sick leave per month and 10 hours of annual leave per month. Also, the university is closed for 14 days every year (New Year’s Day, MLK Day, Memorial Day, the 4th of July, the Thursday and Friday of Thanksgiving, and for about a week at Christmas, starting with Christmas Day [we do have to work on Christmas Eve]), and you don’t have to use vacation time for those days. Staff doesn’t get all the same holidays the students and faculty get, though (like spring break). We still have to work on those days.

    9. Windchime*

      I work for a state university, too, and I was unable to negotiate vacation time. But we have 10 or so paid holidays and very generous sick leave of 12 days per year. The sick leave made the difference for me, because at Old Job all of our days off (sick and vacation) came out of one bucket. So I feel like I’m actually coming out ahead on days off.

  18. Amber Rose*

    I need some clarity on something that happened this week. I’m still not sure if it was good or bad, or neither, or if I’m just overreacting.

    So, I’ve complained a few times about how I hate doing the accounts receivables and I suck at it, but I was under the impression that it was just something I had to keep working on. Well, my supervisor sat down with me and basically said wow, this is really bad, this is not getting done at all. And I said, I know, I’m trying my best but it makes me anxious and is something that’s very hard for me to do. Anyways, the end result is that I don’t have to do it anymore. She and the accountant are going to work on it together and I’m free. On the one hand, HELL YEAH. But on the other hand, responsibility has been taken away from me because I failed terribly. Is this really bad for my work reputation?

    I sort of asked if I was in trouble, and she said she was very frustrated but part of that is because I wasn’t doing it the way she would, and that she sometimes forgets people can’t read her mind. She also said she has no idea what I do in a day, which is in my mind the biggest ongoing problem I have in this company. NOBODY knows what I do in a day. I’m like the Futurama definition of God: when I do my job right, nobody’s sure if I did anything at all.

    Sigh.

    1. animaniactoo*

      Did you respond by clearly outlining what you DO do in a day?

      Also – had you been clear to her before about struggling with the accounts receivables?

      1. Amber Rose*

        We did agree that I’d start sending her emails every day or couple of days just letting her know what I’m working on.

        And yes, I had. She knew it and when I mentioned it in this meeting she acknowledged that she knew about it. It had been my understanding that it was too bad, I’d just have to cope. I think is this only turned out the way it did because upper management started to complain about how bad it was going, and she’s the middleman for every problem. So part of her frustration is having to deal with this at all on top of everything else, which I get and I feel bad about, but I really tried to be better and I just couldn’t.

        1. animaniactoo*

          I would say that as long as the rest of your job provides real substantive value to the company, then everything here was handled correctly and you’re probably fine.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      Bender: You know, I was God once.
      Galactic Entity: Yes, I saw. You were doing well until everyone died.

    3. Creag an Tuire*

      Oooof. This is bringing back flashbacks of my final year at OldJob — I’d be concerned that they think they need someone stronger in the role you’re filling. (That’s not a personal slam — it may well be that their expectations for your role are unrealistic — IMO that was the case with OldJob though obviously they’d disagree.)

      I’d take the opportunity they’ve given you with the email updates to document as best you can what you’re working on, how long it takes, and the value it provides to the company — basically demonstrate both that you are doing solid work and imply (without making it an explicit production) that it would be unrealistic for a normal qualified person to do this job well on top of the accounts receivable.

      Sorry to be so alarmist, this just sounds a lot like the early flags I missed. Godspeed.

      1. Amber Rose*

        I have that concern. For the time being, I am comforted a bit in that only I have my certifications, and that it was a year long and multi-thousand dollar project to get me to this point so it’s probably more hassle to replace me than it’s worth. I’ve also started doing quarterly emails to upper management on what my department has been doing, although your guess is as good as mine on whether anyone’s reading them.

        Part of the recent trouble is that I was more or less inaccessible for two weeks doing work for another company. I was working somewhere else on things that have no impact on this company, and I was still being paid by this company, and since nobody understands that system… yeah.

        I probably need a new job.

        1. Creag an Tuire*

          So they spent months and money training you as a Teapot Amortizer (implying both a recognized need for the role and a difficulty in finding certified Teapot Amortizers in the wild) and are now all “yeah, but let’s make you do this completely different task as well.” That is a solid level of Not Smart there.

          I’m sorry, and I hope they do see sense.

          1. Amber Rose*

            More or less, if you add a few completely different tasks in there. I do stuff ranging from marketing to programming also.

            Which is mostly OK, if it’s something where I sit and try to figure things out I often can and I like learning. But A/R requires dealing with other people in a confrontational situation. I have anxiety triggers around being yelled at. And I don’t think Canada has the same sorts of rules around accommodating illness as the US.

    4. Rocky*

      I think you handled this specific situation just fine, but overall this doesn’t sound good for you. It’s never good when your supervisor tells you they don’t know what you’re doing, and taking away responsibilities from you in that light is not a favor. Keep documenting and communicating what you’re working on, but if your gut instinct is that you need a new job, I’d say heed it.

    5. BlueWolf*

      I feel you on the accounts receivable part. Asking people for money is the worst. :/ I had to do that in my old job and I hated it, but in my new job I am only responsible for preparing the bills and there’s a whole different department for accounts receivable.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Is this a workload problem? I mean if you had a comfortable time frame would you have been okay with the AR?
      Going in the opposite way, is there enough AR work to keep one person employed full time?

      I think that writing out a list of what you are doing would be helpful, I mean a list that you keep for yourself. It sounds like you have to email the boss now, which is okay, too. She should be more aware than what she is.
      It’s not really bad for your work rep if she does not mention it to anyone, or if she explains that she did not realize how much you had on your plate already. I think you will survive this one, you’ll be okay. It sounds like your boss is a thinking person and that is always a good thing.

      I think at some point I would go back in on this discussion under the larger heading of “NOBODY knows what I do in a day”. I have seen this type of complaint come up when a person has too many bosses and each boss does not know what the other bosses have asked of this person. Your solution might be that any new work for you has to be cleared through your supervisor first.

      Digging out of this one will be a bit of effort, but it might be worthwhile. You could have an opportunity here to shape/define your job, if you keep this as an ongoing conversation.

      One thing I would do is ask the boss, “How do I let you know when something is too much and I am running into trouble?” Then explain that the situation went on for too long so the problem got bigger, if the problem could be caught sooner then it would be less of an issue.

      Honestly, it seems like you would benefit from having a few other things taken off your plate also.

    7. Casuan*

      :::this got much longer than I planned because I was trying to connect the dots from the other posts & their good suggestions; hence: TL; R [Too Long: Redundancies]:::

      Amber Rose, from your original post & your comments, whilst this is weighing you down now, I think you can turn it around! At least, there are several things you can try.

      You were doing your best with little management. The fact that you’re the Futurama definition of God is probably a good sign, albeit it’s always good to be acknowledged for one’s work & to have the feedback that one is on the right track.

      Your specific question was if complaining about doing A/R & then having the task taken from you will hurt your reputation.
      I don’t think the damage is as bad as you think. We’ve all been there, and the thing to do is to acknowledge the snafu then to reframe it as best you can & move on from there. You’re doing just that! & you’re not the only one who handled this wrong. The management has created a culture that made you think you had to suck it up & do the work assigned to you, no matter what. Your manager reinforced this when you told her you were having trouble with the project.

      to rephrase: We all get thrown to the mat. It’s what we do after we’re down that matters.

      You’ve “complained a few times about how” you hate doing A/R.
      This is where you went off-track, I think.
      Were your complaints “I really don’t like doing A/R although I’ll do it because you tasked it to me even though I’m bad at it”?
      If so, probably all your manager heard was that you don’t like to do A/R. She said she sometimes forgets that others can’t read her mind. Employees need to remember that managers can’t always read between the lines.

      Telling a manager that you hate something & suck at it won’t always click that your real message is “Please help because I don’t like this task & my skills are elsewhere, so I really don’t know what I’m doing & I’m probably going to get things wrong & it will then cause more problems for our already-overworked department.”

      What will click is if you can state the problem [& why it’s a problem] & recommend a solution, even if the solution is “I’ve thought about it although I’m really drawing a blank” [this particular solution should be rare as usually it’s better to at least suggest something].

      You could have have told your manager the specific problems you were having, what you couldn’t resolve [& the steps you tried to take] & asked her for guidance, as well as to ask for status meetings during the project. These meetings could be as simple as 5 minutes a day or 5 minutes a week, in person or via telephone… by email… whatever would help keep you on track for the project at hand.
      You could have asked for help with specific parts of the project you were having trouble with, such as the calls that gave you anxiety. Also you could have pointed out how A/R affected your other work & asked for help to prioritise your projects.

      What caught my attention was that the manager & the accountant were going to work on A/R together. To me this seems like they realised without a dedicated A/R person the job is too much for just one person with other responsibilities. If so, this is in your favour.

      bonus non-click: The phrase “One day I’d like to be in management” [especially when said during lunch or a more casual conversation] will not prompt that manager to put the employee on the advancement list.

      As for your manager, she seems aware that things aren’t as streamlined as they should be. She also seems willing to talk & listen to her staff. Unfortunately, she’s too busy being the middleman for other things that she is forgetting that managing is more than what she’s currently doing &or her own managers aren’t giving her the time or freedom to do her own job. She is currently Not Managing, at least not very well. From the little you told us, your manager probably would be good at, ummm… managing.

      Help her with this & help your own career by taking charge of your job!!
      It’s good that you’ll be sending status emails, however I don’t see the point if neither of you are clear & in agreement about your role [ie: job description] & her expectations. Ideally this discussion also would include how this fits into your career path.
      Once you discuss this, status emails will actually have a purpose.

      If your manager doesn’t see the point in such a meeting, then, yeah… you probably should move on.
      However, it seems that she’ll be willing to do this very routine part of managing. In this meeting, discuss: your job requirements, how you can use your skills to their advantage, your manager’s expectations & how she wants you to handle any conflicts. Tell her you’re mortified [or whatever the best adjective] that you didn’t do well with the A/R & your understanding was that you needed to do it without complaint. A good manager will want to know that. Also tell her what you learned from the experience & the steps you can take in the future to avoid the scenario from recurring [with any project, not just A/R].

      Not So NewReader is spot on about steps you should take & what to discuss. Especially “NOBODY knows what I do in a day”… not even your manager knows!! Your manager should be able to tell someone what her individual staff are doing. Because she doesn’t know, then you should help to clarify this.
      How does your department fit into the needs & goals of the company? What is your manager’s vision & plan for this? What does she want from you to meet departmental goals?

      The goal is for you to have an idea of the bigger picture & how you can be a part of that; you don’t need all of the details for that. You do need the details for your function!

      Take a week or two to think things through before you meet with your manager.
      What is the job for which you were hired?
      Start there & make a list of the job requirements. Then list everything you actually are doing.
      What are your qualifications & skills? How do they fit in with your work?

      As Creag an Tuire suggested, log your achievements. I’d suggest to keep an informal log of your projects on your personal device, both rote & challenging & how you resolved the challenging projects. Especially note the outcome in terms of how your company benefitted from you doing your job.
      This will help because:
      …you can see all you accomplish.
      …such a list will help you negotiate raises & promotions.
      …this will help when you update your CV.

      *You owe it to yourself & your career to be honest with what you want.
      these queries are rhetorical so you needn’t answer here

      I probably need a new job.
      Do you truly believe this isn’t the right job/fit for you? Was this statement more from frustration & feeling overwhelmed? Or are you just thinking you want to start somewhere new for a fresh start because of the A/R situation?
      If the last question is yes, then I think you’re better served to do what you can at your current job to work on any damage to your reputation, even if for just several months. You don’t want your current employer to think you left just because a project you were bad at was taken away. You do want your employer to know you left because you found a job that will netter suit your skills. And when NewCompany calls CurrentCompany for a reference, you want CC to reiterate your good qualities.

      There are a lot of variables to answer questions like these & I assume there are more factors at play then what you’ve shared here. So the follow-up questions:

      All things considered, do you like this job?
      to be more precise: If things ran more smoothly & you had better feedback & appreciation, would you want to stay?

      Do you like the work in general? Are the salary & benefits good? Is there room for advancement? Do you respect your colleagues & the work culture?
      If the last answer is no, is this something that could improve with time?

      Please let us know how you’re doing!!
      Good luck!!

  19. CrazyEngineerGirl*

    This week, a coworker I seriously can’t stand turned in their notice! I am unreasonably happy!

    I can’t help but feel that this is going to majorly improve my job satisfaction. It’s not so much that I have direct problems with this person exactly. They are terrible at their job, never take responsibility, lay blame on others, lie, etc. But the real horrible part and the part that makes me fume on the inside constantly is the treatment they get here. Talked to about their behavior and issues but no consequences. Bad at their job but promoted, given a raise, and what basically amounts to being given an assistant (which was done, as far as I can tell, because they can’t do their job.) Big boss has refused to fire them (they had a ‘thing’ early on) and this has led to coworker basically being coddled constantly.

    But now they’ve turned in their notice and in 2 weeks I won’t have to deal with the insanity that surrounds them anymore! Woo-hoo!!

    1. PoniezRUs*

      Yay! I felt so much of the same relief you feel when I was in the same situation. I hope it improves your morale like it did for me!

    2. Sunflower*

      OMG I feel the same way about our team assistant. It’e something I’m struggling with a lot at my job and I totally think your satisfaction will go up. Hoping I get similar news to you soon.

    3. hermit crab*

      I’ve outlasted several coworkers (cube neighbors, office-mates, etc.) who had annoying habits I couldn’t stand and/or I just irrationally disliked them. It was so, so, so satisfying when they left! It must feel even better if the person is actively bad at their job/doing bad things. Congratulations!

    4. Debbie Downer*

      On the other hand, they probably got a big raise compared to what they had at your company.

    5. Clever Name*

      Ha. I remember when a coworker who threw me under the bus resigned. My mentor, who had backed me, asked how I felt about him resigning, and I said, “I’m trying not to be openly gleeful”. :)

  20. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Relating to the bird phobia letter earlier: what are you all afraid of, and how do you deal with it at work?

    I am TERRIFIED of a certain, disgusting, bug (I can’t even type it out without shuddering), but fortunately have never been in any office where they are an issue.

    I also experience nausea, panic, and “freeze” when I smell rubbing alcohol or strong alcohol-based antiseptics. So I know I could never work in any medical field! With the proliferation of hand sanitizer, I usually move, hold my nose, or try to smell something else if I am within a few feet of the person using it. Of all the things to be afraid of…

    1. Rincat*

      I’m afraid of talking to my director, who has been nothing but nice and helpful to me since I started. He is just very quiet and has sort of a mean looking resting face, and has a zillion years experience in our tech field and is extremely smart. If I have to talk to him about something, I have to psych myself up with pep talks (like “You are a competent, intelligent adult”) and rehearse what I’m going to say in my head. I have Imposter Syndrome to the max degree and just started working in a new department with lots of smart, experienced IT people so I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed.

      On a lighter note I am also terrified of dolls. Luckily dolls aren’t usually found in IT but every now and then I run across someone’s office who has some collectible dolls on their shelves and my blood pressure goes up, so I just hover at the exit and try not to look at them. (Figures are okay, I’m talking like porcelain dolls, American Girl dolls, etc.)

      1. dappertea*

        I’m the same way! I have this irrational fear of dolls, especially porcelain ones. Some of my coworkers find it funny, and one of them left an Elf on the Shelf on my desk once.

    2. Rebecca*

      Clowns. Thankfully there are no clowns at work, in the traditional sense anyway, so that’s a plus. I avoid store grand reopenings in my area like the plague, because for some reason, they think it’s a good idea to have clowns on hand. Thankfully my phobia is easy to deal with.

      1. Lucky*

        You must not work in the White House then (rimshot. I’ll be here all week, tip your waitress.)

    3. Murphy*

      I have a one specific bug phobia, but they’re not one that tend to make it indoors, so I haven’t had to worry about it professionally.

    4. Amber Rose*

      Moths. *sigh*
      They are the most harmless creepy crawly in the universe and I totally lock up when I see one. Fortunately my desk is only surrounded by spiders, so it’s not come up very much. Good thing I’m not arachnophobic!

      Also pretty much every bug that comes into this office dies quickly, likely because of the ambient deadly gases. But when it has come up, another coworker just shoos it away for me without fanfare. I’m also not as phobic as bird guy, I won’t run screaming for the hills unless one lands on me.

      1. Solidus Pilcrow*

        …likely because of the ambient deadly gases…

        Yikes! If it’s killing the bugs, what’s it doing to you?

        1. Casuan*

          Love your name!!
          I knew “Solidus” but not “Pilcrow.”
          Wo. I’ve always thought I had excellent vocabulary, although the AAM site has quite humbled me!

    5. AnonEMoose*

      I don’t do well with spiders. I don’t know if I’d classify it as an actual phobia – if it is, it’s a fairly mild one. I don’t scream or run or shut down when I see one. But I really don’t want them near me and especially not on me! What tends to happen is that I have to force myself to stay calm, and my “lizard brain” is screaming “KILL IT! KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!”

      I can look at pictures of them (although I don’t like to), but watching video or dealing with the real thing is pushing it. (I can handle the Shelob sequence in the “Lord of the Rings” movies – but the sequence in Mirkwood in the “Hobbit” movies is a stretch, and the Aragog sequence in the 2nd “Harry Potter” movie is a flat-out NOPE.)

      Fortunately, I work in an office building and don’t see them at work much. And at home, my DH mostly deals with them. I might have more of a problem if I lived somewhere with more of the larger types of spider, and/or poisonous ones were more common.

        1. AnonEMoose*

          My very understanding husband let me hide my face in his shoulder during that scene, and let me know when it was ok to look.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        My friend set a wasp hive on fire. It burned for a half hour. The larvae did not die.
        My suggestion is death by drowning.

    6. animaniactoo*

      Okay, honestly – Alzheimer’s. Because I have long relied on my memory, my memory is an important asset of institutional knowledge at my company*, and my grandmother and great-uncle both had it.

      So far, I cope by building in habits of checking things against the day when I may start to slip. And it was part of my push for getting our program management software used, so that I am not relying on my memory as much.

      I have no idea what I’ll do if it does start to become an issue (other than my current quiet panic and frustration when I can’t find a word or name in my brain, and I can’t decide if it’s normal aging *for me*, or the beginnings of a real problem).

      I haven’t discussed it in my office at all. I’ve barely been clear with my husband and godmother about how terrified I am of losing my memory.

      * although I am also the person who harps on about everything being organized and keeping up on our
      file/folder organizational structure on the server and webapps, etc., so if I’m gone it IS findable – it’s just not nearly as easy as asking me to find it because I have an idea of what license we did some particular teapot in for instance.

      1. MommaCat*

        I know how you feel: my mom and grandfather have Alzheimer’s, too. It’s a lot like staring down the barrel of a rifle, isn’t it? Except instead of terrified, I feel more resigned to it, and hoping like hell they come up with a cure by the time I might get it. I’m just trying to live as hard as possible before then. Solidarity fist-bump, animaniactoo.

      2. Paxton Sparrow*

        I have had family members die from many forms of cancer – breast, brain, blood – diabetic complications, and surgical complications but alzhiemers is the worst. You lose yourself first and live in a state of confusion. None of the other people lost themselves even in the deepest part of their illness.

    7. K.*

      Snakes. “Someone said she saw a snake in here” = panic. I can’t even see them on screens. It hasn’t come up at work but if it did I truly think I’d have to go home.

    8. bluesboy*

      I have kosmemophobia, which is just a long way to say that I’m basically frightened of jewellery.

      Yeah, I know, weird, right? Any dangly metal jewellery freaks me out. Frightened is maybe pushing it, I wouldn’t run away, but I feel really uncomfortable, desperately want to wash my hands if I touch it, and find it really difficult to trust people who wear large amounts of jewellery.

      Shaking hands with people with bracelets can also be an issue.

      How do I deal with it? It’s (very) gradually getting better. A few years after shaking hands with someone with lots of bracelets I would automatically rub my hand on my trouser leg to ‘clean’ it, but now I can hold on for much longer and even focus on work until I get a chance to go and wash my hands. The trust issue is more problematic, but easier now that I don’t participate in recruiting any more. It was really tough to interview someone and offer them the job knowing that they were the right person, but also that I would find them difficult to work with. One person even found out about it, and would deliberately wear more jewellery on days she was annoyed with me!

      To be honest it’s been more of a problem in my private life. You get a new girlfriend who isn’t wearing jewellery when you meet her, or on the first couple of dates. Then the next time you see her you find out that actually she ALWAYS wears jewellery, it was just hidden before under her clothes…and you have to end it!

    9. cercis*

      I have no real phobias, but I have a really strong startle reflex. Thankfully I’ve only “hit” a coworker once (recounted in the original thread – a bird literally flew up into my face and I ducked/dodged and knocked into a coworker), but apparently I provide great amusement to coworkers who like to make sudden loud noises just to see me jump and spill tea everywhere.

      1. animaniactoo*

        I have scared the shit out of co-workers who walked up behind my open cubicle and knocked on the wall when I had no clue that they were there and promptly jumped about two feet out of my seat (no, not figuratively). Fortunately for me, we all laughed about it and they have gone to great lengths to try not to startle me again.

      2. MegaMoose, Esq*

        Yeah, me too. When I used to work in a cube I would either try and move so I was facing the entrance, or set up a mirror so I could see anyone coming.

      3. Elizabeth West*

        I nearly beaned a coworker who scared me once when I was wearing headphones. She really hit my startle button. After that, I added “And knock if I’m wearing headphones” to my Gates of Moria cube sign that also said “Speak friend and enter” (which nobody on my team got because I was the only nerd).

      4. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        Yesterday I almost fell out of my chair in a meeting because my coworker shifted in his chair next to me and it made a loud creaking sound I wasn’t expecting and well, my mind must have drifted!

    10. Periwinkle*

      Dogs. I’ve gotten better over time to the point where I can be around most dogs but I’m still terribly uncomfortable if they might touch me or I’m in a room with them without someone who can handle them. Whenever I see an article about dog-friendly offices I shudder at the idea of having to work around people’s dogs all day.

    11. Squeeble*

      While it doesn’t quite rise to the level of a phobia, I utterly loathe bananas, to the point where I can’t look at someone eating one until they’re done and they’ve thrown away the peel. If I can, I’ll leave the room entirely. It is a bit of a pain because bananas are cheap and plentiful, so they’re everywhere. Just thinking about it makes me squirm!

      1. stk*

        Me TOO. To me, they are not food, they are disgusting and wrong. People eating them is bad enough, but leaving peels around or something… EUUUGHHH. *shudder*

      2. Oh Fed*

        I had a coworker once who felt the same–she did not appreciate banana peels in the open trash cans.

    12. Case of the Mondays*

      Mice and centipedes. Both have caused me to scream in my office, with zero filter. My assistant’s cube was being moved and when they took it apart, a mouse ran out!!! AHHH. They are so freaking cute but I have a complete and total irrational fear. When they were in my basement there were tears, lots of them.

    13. Aphrodite*

      I have a phobia about being trapped underground. I was actually on Leave of Absence from my job for about 18 months for this when the department I was in closed and they moved me into a lateral position. The new department was in temporary offices where it had been for the previous two years but was moving back into renovated offices after the holidays. I was taken on a tour of the new offices and my office was going to be underground. The office itself had a shorter ceiling and was made up of these giant cement blocks that formed every part of it but the door. It looked out onto a narrow hallway also made of these same blocks. I cannot tell you how awful it was. I ended up in meetings with HR, had to get a doctor’s note, and it was a long time until another job came along.

      The funny thing is I adore reading books about things like deep caving, diving in deep caves or sunken ships or submarines. I love the descriptions of the places that make my hair stand on end, the misery, the deaths, and so on. But I read them in my sunny living room surrounded by windows and the outside. Don’t even think about asking me to go caving, though.

    14. AndersonDarling*

      I had an issue with pipes, like big industrial pipes that look like they are under lots of pressure. I’m afraid they will blow up. It was a bad issue for a while and my office had a drain pipe in the stairwell so I had to take the elevator all the time. But it got better over time and I just think they are creepy instead of terrifying. As long as I don’t have anymore nightmares about scary pipes, I can cope.

    15. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

      I hate having attention put on me (my face gets bright red if I have to speak up in front of people) so public speaking has always been a fear of mine.

    16. JeanB*

      Fortunately my one real phobia doesn’t come up at work – I’m really afraid of caves. Especially the ones where you have to crawl through a small passage to get through. I was reading a book the other day where the characters were squeezing through a tube and getting stuck, and I just all of a sudden said “I am not doing that!” out loud.

      But I am also freaked out completely by bugs and spiders.

    17. Elizabeth West*

      Aren’t phobias weird? How do we even get them? It’s so strange.

      I’m afraid of heights. I avoid going up on ladders, etc. Fortunately it’s not usually something I have to deal with at work, since I’m not in facilities management or a firefighter or anything like that. I have no idea why this is the case–as kids, we used to jump out the loft window of the barn on our property and I spent half my childhood in trees!

      1. Jaydee*

        I’m afraid of falling more than I’m afraid of heights. So I have no issue being on the top floor of a tall building taking in the view of the city. I would probably have an issue climbing a wobbly ladder, even if it’s just to change a lightbulb or reach something on a high shelf. I also pretty much lived in trees as a child and loved climbing and swinging and all sorts of similar activities. I really don’t know where it all comes from.

        1. Anne of Green Tables*

          Me too! As a kid I loved climbing tall trees, particularly barefoot, and get the bird’s eye view of the neighborhood. My front yard had three trees close to each other and I would walk far out on a branch and jump to the next tree 20 feet up. As an adult, no problems eating lunch with my feet dangling over a 4-story parking garage. But on a ladder 3 feet up and it wiggles? Nearly wet myself.

        2. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

          +1 I can be high up as long as I am not the one controlling my safety! So…bungee jumping, high dives, sky diving are all out for me. Tall buildings, bridges, etc. are fine.

    18. Dr. KMnO4*

      I have a fairly severe phobia of bees (and wasps and hornets and yellow jackets and carpenter bees…). Can barely look at pictures of them, can’t be around them. I’m also afraid of most other insects and arachnids, though the level of fear varies by species.

      At work my phobias prevent me from going into the biology labs where one of the faculty works with insects. Actually, I don’t like going into her office at all because she has dead insects on the walls. My bee phobia especially makes me nervous about being outside in the summer, since I tend to panic when I’m around them, and I don’t control my reaction. I’m afraid of looking like an idiot in front of my colleagues for sure. Thankfully it seldom comes up.

      1. Birdbrain*

        Hello phobia twin! Bees and their ilk are my kryptonite. Oddly, it’s not about getting stung: I’ve actually been stung before and it’s not nearly as bad as the psychological effects of the bee COMING AFTER ME.

        For me, the “pointier” they are, the likelier I am to panic. So bumblebees are mostly okay as long as they aren’t close and aren’t coming towards me. Wasps and hornets? NOPENOPENOPE. The buzzing sound is awful, too. The lack of bees is one of the few things I like about winter.

        Thankfully I work in a bee-free office. I have had issues when my team has gone out for lunch and sat on the patio. I have so far avoided a complete flailing panic in front of coworkers, but I definitely had a “I need to get away from here NOW” moment involving a rapid retreat and a nervous wait at a safe distance until the wasp was gone. And then I spent the rest of the meal looking around anxiously…

      2. Lissa*

        Same here. Flying insects are bad in general — I have vision issues, and having bugs flying in my face can send me into near-tears no matter the situation. It doesn’t come up a lot at work but sometimes something has gotten in the window, and if I’m right in the middle of what I’m doing, I can’t really get up and stop! Nightmares!

    19. Iris Carpenter*

      Heights. And some of our production facilities are tall, and may have things I need to deal with at the top. Fortunately it has never happened yet, but open grid style walkways that you can see right though are bad enough.

    20. Jadelyn*

      My phobia is a weird one – I’ve actually never been able to find a word for it, even on those huge exhaustive phobias lists. I’m terrified of power lines and electrical towers, I always feel like they’re going to fall on me. Secondarily, I’m scared of large machinery – basically anything with moving parts that are bigger than I am. I’m okay if I’m in a car near them, since I’m grounded/protected – I mean, I still side-eye them and am really tense, but I can cope – but outside walking around? Hell no. I have been able to force myself to walk under power lines a handful of times, but I have to do it by keeping my head down, staring fixedly at the ground, and walking as fast as I can. There’s a big set of lines that runs right through a major retail area in my town, with the result that there’s a bunch of stores I literally can’t go to because I can’t make myself walk from car to building under those damn power lines.

      Luckily this hasn’t been an issue at work, since I work in an office with no aboveground lines anywhere nearby. And thankfully, if we were doing something offsite and there were electrical towers nearby, my team is really understanding of anxiety and phobias, since several of us have unusual ones, so I’d just let my team know and they’d try to help work around it.

      1. Bethlam*

        My biking partner has the phobia of power lines & electrical towers. When we were on one of our D.C. to Pittsburgh bike trips, there’s a section with some beautiful pink bushes on a hillside that we stopped to look at/photograph. She was visibly trembling and I asked what was wrong. She pointed overhead to the large electrical lines. I had barely noticed them, nor the humming and crackling coming from them, but she was totally weirded out.

        1. Jadelyn*

          That sound is the worst! I commend your biking partner on being able to stand still under them, I don’t think I’d be able to stay still like that.

    21. PB*

      Roaches. I hate them. I shriek when I see them. And sadly, I’ve worked in places where they sometimes emerge. I wish I could say I’ve developed a brilliant coping strategy, but I haven’t. If I scream and startle someone, I explain and apologize. Fortunately, since pretty much everyone hates roaches, this has never been a problem.

    22. AliceBD*

      I am terrified of mummies. They give me nightmares, and when we learned about Ancient Egypt in elementary school I had to leave the room crying. I can know they are somewhere and be ok, but I cannot (truely cannot) deal with images of them (one came up in my Tumblr dash one evening and I violently shoved my computer away and started crying and was upset for the rest of the evening) or knowing too much about them. I don’t have a problem with fake mummies like people wrapped in toilet paper for Halloween, and I can read books like the Amelia Peobody books where they are always excavating pyramids as long as I skip over any descriptions and don’t think too hard about it.

      Luckily this is not a thing that comes up really at work. I work in marketing so I could see it being an issue if I worked at a history or art museum, but in general it doesn’t come up and if it does I can leave the conversation.

    23. Shamy*

      This doesn’t rise to the level of phobia, but I am terrified of fish. The seafood section of the grocery store freaks me out and I definitely cant walk down those aisles in the pet stores with the aquariums. If it is a whole fish dish, they have to remove the head for me. Oddly enough, if I saw one flopping around out of water, I wouldnt’t have the heart to let it die, so despite being utterly panicked, I would put it back in the water.

      1. Mononymous*

        SAME OMG. Gross. I once went to the aquarium on Key West and was looking at the critters in an open tank up the middle of the room, then turned around to see a freaking THREE FOOT angelfish in the wall tank right behind me, staring at me with its giant beady eye. I almost fell backward into the open tank onto the horseshoe crabs!

    24. Mononymous*

      Holes in things, especially if there’s something in the holes. It’s called trypophobia. DO NOT GOOGLE if you think you also have this! Those lotus pod dried flower things are the stuff of nightmares, ugh.

      Also, tripping and falling down stairs. I will often have pretty vivid mental images of myself falling down the stairs as I’m actually walking up or down them… Falling backwards if I’m going up, tripping and going headfirst if I’m walking down, etc. It’s not bad enough to stop me from using the stairs, but I do need to be able to hold the handrail 100% of the time. This applies at home and elsewhere, too.

      1. LawPancake*

        Ugh, those frogs that have babies pop out of their backs make me physically retch. Awful. Thankfully, I don’t deal with frogs at work.

    25. Anon4this*

      I actually acquired a phobia because of a job I held as a teenager. I am afraid of roller-coasters. When I was in high school I worked at an amusement park during the summers, 2 people died on one of our roller-coasters in a very unfortunate accident, which I was present for and saw while working (but wasn’t working that ride). To this day I practically hyperventilate just thinking about it.

      1. Gadfly*

        I’ve a friend who has a phobia of carnival rides/amusement part rides from being in line as a teenager, in the next group to board, and it just broke in a horrific way I’ve never been heartless enough to ask him to detail. I just know a lot of people were hurt and several dies.

        I wouldn’t say I have a phobia from his story, exactly, but combined with my car crash issues it is just a non-starter for me to even think of getting on one.

    26. Sylvia*

      I’m emetophobic – clinical phobia of vomiting.

      A long time ago, one of my coworkers became suddenly, violently ill while sitting at his desk. Someone sitting closer to him rushed to the rescue and helped him get ready to go home. I asked if they needed any help. Thank God, they didn’t. I acted calm until I got home but THAT WAS NOT A GOOD DAY.

      1. Courageous cat*

        I’m super super emetophobic too and honestly, despite what a lot of comments here have said, I never feel particularly bad for/feel like running to the rescue of someone who’s vomiting. Like, it’s a perfectly natural response and generally doesn’t mean they’re hurt or dying or something. And they’re adults, they can handle it (which is why I honestly think most adults should be able to make it to the bathroom first, but that’s neither here nor there…)

        So basically if someone ever vomits near me I just get the hell out of there as fast as I possibly can. I can almost guarantee it’s more traumatizing for me than it is for them.

    27. NewBoss2016*

      I am absolutely terrified of grasshoppers. Even seeing pictures of them makes me nauseated. If one lands on me, I have to cover my mouth with my hands (so it won’t fly inside?) and tear up and panic until someone rescues me. I am not afraid of any other bugs, not even crickets. I have no idea why I have this fear, but it has been life-long. The only time this has surfaced at work was when we had a plague of grasshoppers one year. They would layer the ground outside the front door to the office, so I would have to sneak around them to the side entrance while trying to not vomit all over myself.
      I am also extremely scared of any bodies of water that are even somewhat murky. I can scuba dive to 100 feet in the ocean where the water is clear, but just being near local lakes and ponds freak me out so badly. This actually has a basis though, considering I was in a bad boating accident in a nasty lake and was trapped underwater briefly on an submerged barbed-wire fence.

    28. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      It doesn’t come up at work, but my big one is injections. Not needles in general — I’ve donated blood with no issue, I’ve got a total of six piercings, and had two in my eyebrow back in college, but specifically having something injected into me wigs me right the heck out.

      And, delightfully, my religious background means I had no idea about this until a few years ago when I had to have a surprise root canal. Three shots of novocaine and a panic attack in the chair. That was a fun Halloween.

    29. JanetM*

      Bugs. I like butterflies and moths, and when I was a kid I used to play with the little teeny desert beetles, but gnats, flies, anything that stings, junebugs, and palmetto bugs just freak me the heck out. Flies and gnats I can swat at, but stinging bugs and junebugs? I freeze in place and whimper until it goes away. The one time I was dive bombed by a palmetto bug, I literally locked myself in the bathroom until morning, when I could get a neighbor to capture and remove it.

      Gratings in the ground (rainwater grates in the road and ventilation grates over below-ground equipment). I walk around them, but if I have to cross over one, there’s always an underlying fear that they will collapse and I will fall into the hole.

      Falling. I have what the psych folks refer to as “persistent intrusive thoughts” about tripping, not being able to break my fall, smashing my face into the ground, and breaking my front teeth. Yes, it’s that specific. Although, come to think of it, I haven’t had that one for a while, which I don’t mind a bit.

      Visual depictions of car accidents, and squealing brake noises (both actual and, for example, in a radio ad for a brake shop). These are probably the most “legitimate,” because I have, through no fault of my own, been in far too many accidents.

      1. Gadfly*

        Yes–brake noises and that specific crunching sound you get.

        I have only ever been in 3 accidents, but two were once in a lifetime extreme ones and made (pun not intended, but unsure how to reword) a serious impact on me.

    31. Not So NewReader*

      Panel boxes. Why am I always the one who has to go throw the breaker. I don’t understand. One place I worked at there was difficulty with the breakers. They called electricians. The electricians related a story about throwing a breaker and getting thrown through a concrete wall into the parking lot. Fast forward several jobs later here I am again throwing the breakers. But this one breaker works really hard. I have to use to hands to push it. I said to the boss, I think that breaker needs fixing.

      And then nothing happened.

      This was the start of my quest for a new job.

    32. regina phalange*

      Elevators…like a crippling fear. Luckily I’m on the second floor of a building with an open stairwell but when the stairs were recently closed I froze and was so anxiety ridden I forgot about the back entrance. For jobs in building without that option I have to suck it up, but it is very difficult.

    33. Gadfly*

      The sound of metal crunching into metal when cars collide (throw in a tire squeal and you’ll have me near puking). I think it was Allstate who had those commercials for a while that got me every single time. At work, mostly not a problem, although accidents near the building or just sometimes random noises have been close enough. I freeze up, breathe deeply (unless there is an emergency, in which case something else kicks in, I put out all the fires and then go cry in a corner.)

    34. Zathras*

      I have an intense fear of being stuck in a narrow space unable to move my arms. Not really phobia-level, but I can get a little panicky if I have to crawl into small spaces even if they are definitely large enough. For example when I was a teenager I once locked myself out of the house and was able to crawl in through our dog flap, but it took me a while to talk myself into trying it, even though it would have been actually kind of hard to get stuck. I don’t have nightmares often but they often involve getting stuck like that when I do.

      I’m not otherwise particularly claustrophobic, I can go into tight spaces/closets/whatever fine as long as there is room to move my arms.

      It also makes me uncomfortable when people in movies have to crawl through narrow pipes or ventilation ducts. Once I saw a TV documentary about spelunking and while it was fascinating, I sat through it thinking OH HELL NO.

      I’m really glad I don’t have any worse phobia – a close family member has clown phobia to the point of getting the freak-out flight response if startled by one. Thankfully clowns are rarer in the wild than birds, and this person can control it (but is still really uncomfortable) if they have some advance warning.

  21. Mary (in PA)*

    This is kind of odd in that it has to do with both work and life issues, but I’m pretty excited for the new season of Deadliest Catch, which is starting up next week. Yes, it’s a reality show, and yes, it has manufactured storylines and drama; but I realized a few seasons ago that what I like most about it is that it shows a LOT of personnel management in action! I find it fascinating to watch issues of morale, motivation, and leadership taking place in an area that I wouldn’t necessarily expect. Does anyone else watch this show, and if so, have you noticed the same things that I have?

    1. Lo*

      I have an acquaintance from high school who’s on the show. He’s Sunshine – not sure if he’s on there anymore, actually, but he had a rocky start and it was honestly hilarious.
      It’s a great show, I agree, and the personnel management in such a unique field is very interesting. I actually really love the interpersonal situations in general. It’s a neat thing to watch – especially because without the show (and the acquaintance), there’s 0 chance I’d have known anything detailed about this type of work!

    2. KarenK*

      I haven’t watched the show in a few years, but I know what you mean. I saw two different instances captains firing one of the crew. In both cases, the employee was not performing.

      Captain Keith (is he still on?) was awful about it. He asked the guy to come up to the wheelhouse and said, “That’s the last time you’ll be in my wheelhouse.” Made the guy feel like crap. What a jerk.

      I can’t remember who the other captain was, but it was a greenhorn that he was letting go. He basically said, “You gave it a really good effort, but this job is not for everybody. I’m going to have to let you go.” The captain gave the greenhorn a hug, and the greenhorn thanked him for the opportunity.

      So, same result, but one felt horrible and one felt kinda proud.

      1. Mary (in PA)*

        Captain Keith is still on the show. He’s had some personal issues that he seems to have reasonably under control, so he’s been a lot less of a jerk lately.

        It’s so interesting to see how the captains’ different management styles play out. I’m sure they aren’t thinking of it like that, but it’s neat to see what works and what doesn’t work. The Northwestern is definitely my favorite boat because, while the whole crew may have their issues with one another, they know what the job is and how to get it done safely and efficiently. And they (generally) respect the captain’s authority.

        1. Windchime*

          Fun fact: My cousin works for a marine fueling company and sells fuel to Sig and Edgar for the Northwestern. The boat actually pulls up to her place of business.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I used to watch it but I don’t have cable anymore. I always liked waiting to see if the crab pot was full when they brought it up. That seemed so thrilling to me, and I was always disappointed when only a few crabs appeared.

      It’s a really difficult job–I don’t think I could do it, and forget about running the boat.

    4. Not Australian*

      I don’t watch Deadliest Catch but there’s a lot of good management advice in most of these reality shows. Things like ‘Hotel Hell’, ‘Kitchen Nightmares’, ‘Hotel Inspector’ and even ‘Judge Judy’ are great when it comes to practical guidance for business situations … you couldn’t watch them without learning, for example, the importance of a good cleaning routine, or how necessary it is to get everything in writing even when you’re dealing with a ‘friend’. For many of us these are things we take for granted anyway, but what can happen when you miss out one of these important precautions can be pretty eye-opening – and personally I’d rather watch other people making mistakes and learning from them than make too many of my own!

      2. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        Add Bar Rescue to that list!

        But yeah, Kitchen Nightmares its amazing and at some point you can’t fault Gordon for going off full blast. I tend to think that a) a lot of that is for show and b) he does care a lot about quality and the job and it must kill him to see folks who just don’t have the same passion. But when he finds someone with just a bit of it, he tries to help them along.

    5. Casuan*

      It never fails to surprise me that I get inspiration, life advice & sound business principles from the oddest sources.
      I’ve never seen “Deadliest Catch”; I’ll try to watch an episode or two. Hopefully I won’t get hooked, I don’t have cable either.

  22. MuseumChick*

    I suspect the answer is to just keep doing what I’m doing but I’m curious how others would handle this. I am an atheist who doesn’t advertised that fact. My close friends know, and I’m pretty sure my family knows though I have never directly told them.

    Three is a woman at my work who is a Christian and very….emotive about that. I want to be clear I do not have a problem with her being Christian, honestly, I don’t really care what anyone’s religion is. My problem is she has started to try and draw me into conversations about religion. For example, she mentioned she was going to see a movie and being friendly and polite I asked her which one. I forget the title but it’s based on a book written by someone who used to be an atheist and then “researched it” and ended up “proving” Christianity. After she told me this I got the sense she wanted me to say something but I just smiled and kept my mouth shut. She also wanted advice about getting in museum work and wanted to get a “biblical archaeology degree” again, I got the sense she wanted me to offer some kind praise/positive response. I side stepped the question and just gave her advice for entering the museum field.

    What is the best day to handle this? I tend not to tell people I’m an atheist since it can lead to all kinds of discrimination so I don’t want to even off offhandedly mention it to her. Though she and I work in completely different areas and don’t actually interact that much. But every time we do somehow the conversation turns to something to do with her faith.

    NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT DEBATE RELIGION IN YOUR RESPONSE. Please be respectful!

    2. ThatGirl*

      Just say, kindly but firmly, “I don’t really want to talk about religion at work”.

      1. Karenina*

        +1

        There really should be no pushback on this, though I’ve seen it happen. It’s inappropriate for her to do this, and it sounds like it’s making you already feel discriminated against (though not intentionally).

        1. MuseumChick*

          I won’t say I feel discriminated against, just a bit uncomfortable. I heard second hand (so grain of salt) that she told someone else that there are “studies” that show homosexuals people live 30 years less than normal or something like that. And since I have LGBT people in my life I deeply care about I dread her saying something like that to me.

          1. Jadelyn*

            …I’m not sure I’d be able to stop myself from saying “Yes, because straight people keep murdering us!” if someone said that to me. Probably accompanied by the Death Stare and heavy-handed implication that I’m classing said coworker in with those who commit homophobic hate-crimes. That’s…just awful.

            3. MuseumChick*

              Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaah. I think if she did go so far as to say that to me, I would escalate it. I’m a straight cis-gender woman but I’m not going to put up with what amounts to hate speech. It would take all my will power to not say something that would get in trouble directly to her.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Eh, I think you can find a study that shows just about anything now. I see people talking about studies show this or that and I chuckle. Probably they have not read the study itself. They have read a headline about the study. Often times when I read the study itself it does not say what the article insists it says. I don’t know why this happens but it happens often.

            Hang on to this one: “And Jesus said, ‘ABOVE ALL ELSE, love each other.’ ” That should probably be a fitting reply to just about anything she comes up with.

            Let her know that you don’t talk about religion/politics/whatever else at work. Tell her before it goes on too much longer, or else it will look kind of weird to have waited and it won’t get easier to tell her the longer you wait.

            1. Zathras*

              You mean all those studies proving that chocolate, coffee, and wine are health food aren’t real?! Darn.

              1. Not So NewReader*

                It’s always interesting to track down the study and read the gooblygook first hand.

                1. Anonanonanon*

                  Yeah, it usually shows a correlation between a molecular component of said food and something like slightly lower blood pressure.

                  When I interned in a research lab, I was shocked to see that they aren’t as strictly regulated as I had thought. Given that and the fact that there are often multiple student interns involved, there is a lot of room for error. And there’s the fact that scientists are human beings and some are more honest and unbiased than others. That’s why research findings aren’t taken that seriously until they’ve been replicated under different settings and by multiple unrelated teams.

                2. Anonanonanon*

                  Oh! And I meant to add, wine and coffee are things that people drink socially. They’re both probably positively correlated with having a social life, which really has been shown to have health benefits.

    3. Squeeble*

      I think you’re handling this just right and would keep doing it the same way. If she ever gets more explicit, you can probably get away with politely saying “Sorry, I’d rather not discuss religion at work” (or whatever seems right in the moment) and change the subject.

    4. Observer*

      As long as she doesn’t openly say anything, just play dumb and don’t take the bait. If she does explicitly try to talk religion, tell her you have a policy of not discussing religion at work. It’s a common enough thing that it shouldn’t raise any eyebrows.

      2. Parenthetically*

        Yeah I’d say always use the “policy” language. It just reads less negotiable to me.

        Combine that with what Princess Carolyn says below about treating it like it’s just an incidentally-religious enthusiasm like any other enthusiasm and I think you’ve got a great strategy.

    5. Princess Carolyn*

      It’s hard to tell from these examples if she’s really trying to draw you into discussing religion or if she’s just blabbing about her own interests, which happen to be very religiously focused.

      You could essentially continue what you’re doing, smile and nod, maybe answer with a simple “Cool! Have fun with that!” This is the best option if she’s not really bothering you with these discussions, and your only concern is how to appropriately respond. You have the option of treating it about any other uninteresting topic that co-workers might chat about.

      But, if she’s starting to ask you personal questions or if you’re just not comfortable with these discussions, go with something like: “I’d rather not discuss religion at work, but…” and then a nice change of subject. Ideally, say it with a smile so it’s clear you’re rejecting the topic, not her as a person.

      Either way, there’s no need to reveal that you don’t share her views if you don’t want to.

      1. Emi.*

        I think this is your best bet. As far as possible, treat her as your Coworker Who Always Wants You To Discuss And Validate Her Interests–this works if she’s being passive-aggressive about religion as such, and if she’s just kind of dorky about what she’s into.

      2. Birdbrain*

        Yeah, I agree with that approach. I’m religious myself and a lot of my hobbies/social activities involve my church or the local Catholic young adults community. I don’t generally discuss those hobbies with coworkers, partly because we don’t talk too much about our personal lives in my office and partly (mostly) because I don’t want to make people uncomfortable. But I know plenty of people who bring their religious beliefs into everything without even thinking about it. This coworker could be trying to bring up religion, or she could just be the religious version of “that coworker who won’t stop talking about his fitness regimen.”

        But even if she’s just over-sharing about her interests, it’s totally fine to say you’d rather not talk about it, and then turn to another topic. It sounds like you’re handling it diplomatically.

        1. JanetM*

          @Birdbrain — For what it’s worth (I’m Pagan, grew up Jewish), I don’t mind at all if people talk about religion *for themselves*. I get a mite cranky when people try to push religion on me.

          Examples of Religious Stuff That Doesn’t Bother Me a Bit:
          “I’m going camping with my church youth group this weekend.”
          “I’m so grateful to my church family for all their help when my mom was in the hospital.”
          “I don’t eat pork because I’m Muslim. Could you include one non-meat pizza in the order?”
          “I’ll be out for Good Friday. Fergus will be taking any questions related to $PROJECT.”
          “The Sunday school class I teach came up with some really great questions and thoughts about $SOCIAL_ISSUE.”
          Seeing Sikhs wearing turbans.
          Seeing Christians wearing crosses.
          Someone saying, “Bless you!” when I sneeze.

          Examples of Religious Stuff That Annoys Me:
          “Where do you go to church?”
          “I like you, so I don’t want you to go to hell” (said to me by a colleague in my former professional association).
          “We have a single mother at our church, but it’s not her fault, she’s a widow, so we pray for her that she will find a good man to bring her back to God’s path” (overheard at a coffee shop).
          Seeing Christians wearing (literally) six-inch-high crucifixes. Although I suspect that it wouldn’t bother me if they were nuns wearing something that was clearly a habit.
          Random customer service people telling me to “Have a blessed day!”
          “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance. I skip those two words when I say the Pledge.

      3. Casuan*

        MuseumChick, Princess Carolyn has a good paradigm & response. From what you wrote, it doesn’t seem your colleague is so much pushing religion on you as she is expressing her interests & wanting to share them.

        If your colleague is simply being focussed on her own interests then “I prefer not to discuss religion at work” might be a bit of an overreaction. If the colleague does continue then you should certainly use the no-religion-at-work card, although I’d save it until you really need it.
        If she gives you an invite, simply thank her for the thought. If needed you could always say that you heard it was a good movie although it doesn’t hold much interest to you. You needn’t say why; not all Christians like those types of movies.

        The x-factor is that your colleague always morphs conversations to her faith & you’re the only judge if she is crossing boundaries vs expressing her interests, which in this case are religion-based.
        People often morph topics into gushing about their significant other, kids, pets, themselves… & sometimes one needs to say “I don’t know if you realise you do this, although it makes me uncomfortable so please knock it off.”
        er, perhaps those last three words should be changed..
        If she doesn’t stop, then definitely tell her you don’t discuss religion at work.

        [Insert story how I finally told work acquaintances that I’m glad to hear about the child’s cuteness & achievements, although if they wanted to talk potty training I told them I could set them up with others who would be glad to have this convo with them. At the most, they could tell me the when training started & ended; anything more than that was way TMI & out of my comfort zone. All complied, with the bonus they stopped with a lot of the other stories, too.]

    6. Sadsack*

      My answer is keep on keeping on. It sounds like you are handling these comments respectfully and responding appropriately. I don’t think you need to tell anyone you own religious beliefs just because they are sharing theirs.

    7. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

      Your current tactics seem to be working well, but if she pushes any further when you don’t respond you could simply say “I’m uncomfortable discussing religion at work” and go back to whatever you were doing.

    8. Elizabeth West*

      It sounds like you handled it pretty well. If she becomes more direct, I would say to her, “Hey Jane, I’m really uncomfortable talking about religion at work, so let’s keep our focus on job stuff. Thanks.”

    9. AnonEMoose*

      It seems to me that you’re handling it well so far. I think a minimal response plus a subject change or ending the conversation when she turns it to religion is the way to go, at least for now.

      If she starts asking you about your own beliefs or practices, if you don’t want to go straight to “I don’t want to discuss religion at work,” you can start with “I’m not a churchgoer,” or similar. If you do with “I don’t want to/like to discuss religion at work,” be prepared for her to possibly ask “why” or invite you to her church/bible study/over for coffee. If she does, you can be reasonably certain she’s looking for an opening to witness to you.

      If that happens, you can try something like “I’m happy and comfortable with my current beliefs, and don’t want to discuss them at work/with coworkers.” That’s polite, but firm, I think, and doesn’t give her specifics or anything to argue with. Or something like “It’s a topic that is deeply personal for many people and can quickly get uncomfortable, so I prefer to avoid that at work/with coworkers.”

      It’s not certain that this is where she’s trying to go – it may be that it’s a huge part of her life, so it’s what she naturally goes to. But it is possible that she’s trying to suss out whether you’d be open to her witnessing to you, and it’s not a terrible idea to have a couple of responses in mind if she tries to follow up on “I’d prefer not to discuss religion at work/with coworkers.”

      1. LaterKate*

        I actually think saying “I’m not a churchgoer” is more likely to make her want to invite you to church, talk about being saved, etc than if you just say “I don’t want to discuss religion at work.”

    10. LKW*

      She may pepper all conversations with religion, so although you may feel targeted or like you’re walking into a trap, you may not be the focus. I think you’re doing everything right but if you continue to feel uncomfortable you can either say “I find it best to keep discussions about religion out of the workplace.” then change to another topic.

      If she becomes aggressive or tries to ask about your religion (or lack thereof), then it’s time to state very clearly: You regularly bring up religion and that makes me very uncomfortable. I am not going to share my beliefs with you and I am not comfortable discussing this at work. If you continue to pester me about religion, I will need to discuss this with HR.”
      Then go discuss this immediately with HR to let them know that you’ve put the stake in the ground. You do not need to tell them you are an atheist or anything other than “This makes me uncomfortable, I’ve requested it stop. I’m letting you know, I don’t need you to take any other action than getting this on record.”

    11. light internet troll*

      What is the best day to handle this?
      I’ve always thought that Tuesdays were a good day to handle troubles. You’re not piling onto a Monday (which is a bad day anyways), and you’re far enough from the weekend that you won’t risk messing it up.

      On a serious note, I tend to just go with the standard response as though there was no mention of religion at all. If you’re thinking about going back for a degree do a bunch of research, or have fun at the movie, hope you enjoy it.

    12. Casuan*

      MuseumChick, I don’t understand why your colleague mentioning an interest in biblical archaeology would make you so uncomfortable?
      …unless she was going on about God &or faith when she asked about it? That I can understand.

      Whether God exists or not, many locations in the Bible are literal locations on earth, thus “biblical” archaeology, is this correct? This doesn’t seem too out of line with the context of your work [context = what I’ve inferred from your user name & post].

      What am I missing?
      my query is from true curiosity, not intended as debate :-)

  23. Not Ginny*

    Hey guys, I have a bit of a problem. My boss keeps calling me the wrong name. My name is Jennifer, but I go by Jen. I have a coworker named Virginia who goes by Ginny. For whatever reason, my boss keeps calling my Jenny or Ginny even though I’ve repeatedly corrected him and asked him to either call me Jen or Jennifer. It’s gotten to the point that other coworkers call me Ginny and Ginny’s calls get transferred to me. What can I do?

    1. MuseumChick*

      Have you tried not responding when he says that? Like he’s calling for you “Ginny! Hey Ginny” wait for him to actually walk up to you and then say “Oh! I thought you were saying Ginny not Jen.” Or if it’s a direct conversation and he calls you the wrong name you could give him a puzzled looked and say “Who? My name is Jen.” In an amused tone.

    2. k*

      I don’t know how to handle your boss, but I would continue to correct coworkers. Like when the calls get transferred to you, don’t just transfer them to Ginny, tell them “I think you dialed the wrong extension, this is Jen.” Or if they cold transfer, shoot them an email or mention in passing “By the way, I got your call transferred to me today but I think you were looking for Ginny. She handles XYZ.” And correct them when they say it to your face. Perhaps if your boss notices everyone else calling you Jen they’ll eventually get the idea.

    3. Sugar of lead*

      I also go by a short name, but my default response to people getting it wrong is “Don’t call me Lead (II) acetate!” which is hostile and inappropriate for the workplace.

      I don’t know what you can do about your boss, but correct your coworkers every time until they start getting it right, and resist the feeling that it’s annoying for them. It’s not; it’s annoying for you. You deserve to be called by your preferred name.

    4. AliceBD*

      I have a similar situation although since my equivalent to Ginny has left the company a few weeks ago it is better. My nickname is a common nickname for a fairly formal/traditional woman’s first name. My nickname is also the first part of a newer, more common woman’s name. You wouldn’t think my full name is unusual, but you almost certainly can name more people with the similar first name, especially among my demographic.

      1. If possible, I don’t respond to the wrong name. I wait until they call me my nickname or my full name.
      2. I correct them, and tell them my full name. “My name is Jen, short for Jennifer.” For me this helps since they are calling me a different first name.
      3. And actually, I started going by my first name more. I chose my nickname in elementary school and made everyone call me it, and then that was how I was introduced at summer camp/middle school/high school/college and it was never an issue and everyone called me by my nickname. But when I started working people mess up and call me the wrong first name ALL THE TIME. My first job out of college involved a lot of phone work and leaving voicemails, and using my full name had a better chance of being called the appropriate name than my nickname. So I’ve basically switched to being Jen in my personal life and Jennifer professionally (to use your name) in order to be called the correct thing. This is not an option for everyone, but it was right for me.

    5. amysee*

      Because the confusion has trickled down to the rest of the office it seems like there is a business case for your boss getting your name right. “Boss, my name is Jen. You often refer to me as Ginny or Jenny, which is not my name. Because my coworkers take your lead, many now think I am actually Ginny and her calls get transferred to me. This is making it harder for both of us to do our work, resulting in [insert business detail]. Could you please make an effort to call me by my correct name, which is Jen?”

      We all sometimes get into mental ruts like this but really, bosses should make an effort to call their employees by the correct name. Sheesh.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I had a problem here where a person could not actually say my cohort’s name correctly. My name is one letter off from cohort’s name. We both watched him try to pronounce her name and it came out as my name each time, every time. We gave up trying to fix this.

      You will have to tell him that it’s causing mix ups (explain what is happening here) and he really needs to call you Jen or Jennifer. If this longer explanation does not work, then I would start asking cohorts to say to him “do you mean Jennifer or Virginia?”

  24. PoniezRUs*

    My coworker does not like me. It’s weird, at first she was so welcoming and friendly with me when I started my job 9 months ago. We are in different groups but sit next to each other in cubes. She stopped liking me when I was joking with the new higher up who really likes to tell puns and corny jokes and has a dark sense of humor. She felt it was inappropriate and expressed I did not have the pay grade to talk to someone like that. Since then she has been icy hot with me. One minute she is super friendly and the next she avoids eye contact with me. At first it hurt. I am new to this city and she helped me get involved in some hobbies I enjoy which helped me become comfortable in my new home.
    I generally avoid her. I do not want to confront her about it but I cannot help feeling sad. She is very sarcastic and cynical and often says things to me I find ridiculous. I had a cold last week and stayed home a couple days to recover. Upon my return she told me to stop sniffling so much and blow my nose. The first time this happened, I asked her if it was bothering her and she said no, it was just surprising how my cold was still lingering. The second time, I felt frustrated because I can’t do anything about it. My nose is running and it is a temporary inconvenience so I just responded with, “fine”. She does this within ear shot of everyone.

    Sometimes I want to talk to her because when I started it was nice to connect with someone with similar hobbies but I just hold back and focus on my work. I avoid her in the hallways and kitchen. I stopped saying good morning once she stopped. She is smart and talented at her job. She is just a difficult person. How do I reconcile my feelings? I did not mean to offend anyone when I was joking with the higher up. It was a bunch of puns and mild jabs at his home state since we are from the same region and rival in some ways (athletics, schools, etc). He initiated the conversations and we get along quite well and he comes to me when he needs someone from my team to help his team out.

    I have not felt this way before. I will just keep maintaining my distance with her. I am on good terms with everyone else and am getting good feedback from my boss. I do well at my job. I don’t know exactly what I am asking but it is something about reconciling my feelings about this woman.

    Thanks

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      You don’t have to like her and she doesn’t have to like you. Just be yourself and ignore the haters.

    2. WellRed*

      You don’t have the pay grade to talk with the higher up? Or joke with the higher up? Either way, the higher up has no problem with you and she sounds ridiculous. Sorry, no advice just … you did nothing wrong.

      1. Liane*

        If she’s roughly the same level as you, what makes her think HER paygrade is high enough to dictate whom the higher-ups are allowed to talk/joke with?

    3. CDN HR*

      I’ve had similar experiences and you just need to learn to laugh at it. She is the one in the wrong not you. All you did was be friendly to the new boss which I am sure he appreciated. She might be jealous that you have become the go to person for the new boss instead of her especially since it sounds like she has been there longer than you and probably had a big role in your training.

      If you can learn to chuckle at people when they make bizarre requests/complaints your quality of life will only increase. Additionally, I have someone at work that hates me for unknown reasons and I always say an upbeat hello. I feel like that ensures that we’re not in a situation where everyone wants to say something but is too scared to do so plus ensures that I treat everyone equally.

    4. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

      It sounds like she’s jealous, but doesn’t know how to handle those feelings so she’s lashing out at you. It’s difficult to not let it bother you, but try to be as pleasant as possible to not announce the fact that she’s getting to you.

    5. LKW*

      Sounds like she was fine as long as you were on her level or below. When you developed a relationship with the higher ups, she didn’t like it. She’s jealous, petty and it will bite her in the ass in the future.

      Keep your chin up, do your work, keep making strides with your co-workers and don’t talk about her to anyone in the office. Vent here as needed.

    6. The Rat-Catcher*

      Co-worker is out of line here, not you. Both the “pay grade” comment and asking you to “stop sniffling so much and blow [your] nose” (twice, no less) are just way too invasive and inappropriate to justify as her trying to “help” you with anything. That said, it’s okay to be sad that you thought you made a friend who now isn’t really acting like a friend any more.

      1. JanetM*

        I will offer tissues to someone who is sniffing a lot. But only once; if they decline, I drop it.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Agreeing with everyone else who said this is the green eyed monster.

      Going forward, spread yourself around, talk with more people and be seen talking with more people.

      You’ve got all your eggs in one basket here, that is what is wrong. Gather up some more friendly people and this will sting less.

      Sometimes people turn out to be LESS than what they seem at first. Happily, sometimes people turn out to be MORE than what they seem at first. If we don’t put ourselves out there, be open to friendships, we don’t ever learn which is which.

      BTW, if this is typical of her rules, “don’t talk to the big boss” she’s not a person who is going to help you that much anyway. She’s got a strange sense of what “the rules are”.

      1. Casuan*

        Agree.

        Sometimes people turn out to be LESS than what they seem at first. Happily, sometimes people turn out to be MORE than what they seem at first. If we don’t put ourselves out there, be open to friendships, we don’t ever learn which is which.

        Love this!!
        Sometimes I meet someone who insists they have excellent judgments based on first impressions. I’ve never understood why this is brag-worthy. To me, I think it makes one less tolerant & less open to another’s true behaviour. Also, almost always this self-assessment is wrong.

  25. AnotherAlison*

    I’ve been involved in my department interviews recently, which is the first time I’ve been an interviewer in about 10 years. It’s given me a better appreciation for my job and a sense of how hard getting a job, and especially changing fields (even a minor tweak to your field) really is.

    I’m interviewing people with good qualifications, just not quite right qualifications. Three candidates had about 20 years experience in the industry, so you’ve got to think they think they have a good chance, but no. Two candidates were flown in and still got almost unanimous no’s from the panel. One candidate was more of a maybe, but he was younger, and we have two internal team members who are ready to be promoted soon, so we didn’t have the need at that level.

    I got into my position without the experience we’re looking for now, so I probably wouldn’t have made the cut now, either. (I do have that experience now.)

    1. medium of ballpoint*

      It was a bit surprising to me how arbitrary decisions can seem. We had a wonderful former colleague interview for a job, who would’ve been a slam dunk in any another applicant pool. Unfortunately, there happened to be one of the most stellar interviewees we’ve ever had in that pool, and our former colleague didn’t get the job. We’ve also hired applicants who are the best out of a generally poor pool, but wouldn’t have been competitive in a more typical pool. So much comes down to the applicant pool, and that’s certainly helped me feel better about my own interview experiences.

    2. Mazzy*

      I’ve had issues with candidates having experience but not being willing to do certain parts of the work anymore. I get that everyone wants to move up but it can be hard to find someone with know how in certain areas who still wants to do it after x years. So sometimes I have to start from scratch with a newbie, and this miss out on whatever the other candidate might have brought.

    3. hermit crab*

      Oh yeah, helping with hiring (when that’s not your usual job) is seriously mind-blowing. In my opinion, the #1 thing that it makes you feel is: there’s no way you would’ve gotten your own job if you’d been hired now. I was hired as an entry level candidate almost 10 years ago, and I know for a fact that I was the top choice among applicants at that time (during the height of the recession!). But the entry-level person I hired to work on my own team last year (at the same company) is, like, light-years ahead of where I was at that stage.

  26. Let me finish*

    Twice this week I had men interrupt me in meetings – once when a coworker and his supervisor were meeting with me to get my advice on his project (he interrupted my advice to state the advice he thought I was going to give) and once when one coworker interrupted my answer to his question, to explain to the other what he thought my answer would be, with the other responding what he though my answer would be and the two of them then interrupting each other to say what they thought I was going to say.

    It’s disrespectful and infuriating.

    1. Former Computer Professional*

      I was just reading an article about a study that showed that women are more likely to be interrupted than men. While it’s always been anecdotally held true, this is the first I’ve read of an actual study done.

      They studied the Supreme Court. Even the Notorious RBG gets regularly interrupted!

      1. Let me finish*

        Yes, and interrupted *by the attorneys* during their arguments. That’s like lawyering 101 – don’t interrupt the judge.

    2. MuseumChick*

      Ugh that’s really irritating. Depending on the situation I would just keep taking (and raise my voice slightly to talk over their interruptions) or wait for them to finish, make eye contact for long enough that it is uncomfortable, and then calmly say, “Ok, before I was interrupted what I was going to say is…” Then if you have repeat offenders speak with them “Hey, you probably don’t realize this but you tend to interrupt me before I’ve finished talking.”

    3. Snargulfuss*

      So frustrating! I highly recommend the book Talking from 9-5 by Deborah Tannen. She’s an academic who explores different speech and communication patterns of men and women in the workplace. It was a really eye-opening read for me.

    4. Damn it, Hardison!*

      That is super irritating. I had a manager who interrupted me constantly. I would stop talking every time she interrupted me, wait for her to finish, and then (usually) say, No, that’s not the point I was going to make. What I was saying is…..(or some variation). I wish I could say it helped but she seemed not to notice/care. I even brought it up with her separately one-on-one and asked her to stop interrupting me but she basically said that’s how is she and I just needed to deal with it. I do not miss her.

    5. Jillociraptor*

      This is absolutely infuriating. I read an article not all that long ago that women in the Obama White House had kind of a pact where if one of them was interrupted, another would jump in and get back to her point. I’ve been trying to do that a little bit in meetings.

      There’s also this passive aggressive approach, which I use when I’m not in a position to do a corrective interruption: http://arementalkingtoomuch.com/

      1. only acting normal*

        That link is brilliant! :D
        I am so forwarding that to some of my colleagues!

    6. rubyrose*

      I think I would consider walking out of the room, coming back in 3 minutes and asking them if they are ready to listen to you. Don’t know if I would do it, but I would consider it.

    7. LKW*

      I loved the article about the Obama staff and how that had a cumulative effect over the years. If you are peer level and you’ve done the “Well, as I was saying before I was interrupted” and the “before you continue, I’d like to finish what I was saying” then you can always use the “I’m sorry was I talking while you were interrupting me?” but that’s a bit bitchy (and I’m using that word deliberately).

      I’ve found success with “Please, I’d like to finish what I was saying.” or “I’ll let you interrupt me later, but for now, I’d like to finish what I was saying.” and then I just keep talking as if they weren’t talking.

      1. Franzia Spritzer*

        I’ve tried, and persist with “Please, I’d like to finish what I was saying.” which is almost always countered with “I get to talk too.” I’ve tried to counter with, “When I’ve finished my sentence/point, you’ll have the talking stick, please let me finish.” and then the whole effing conversation has been totally derailed. It happens so often and makes me so frustrated I just shut down. Like, eff it, you clearly don’t want to hear anything I have to say, you’ll get all communication from me in a text format.

        FWIW I grew up with an older brother who talked over me at my every utterance, I pretty much stopped talking unless directly addressed until I was 25. I don’t have any issues, no I don’t.

    8. BadPlanning*

      Argh.

      A couple months ago, I was telling my department about the plans for an upcoming office move. Someone made a joke about something and then two of them starting debating something about the workspace. I had the answer to the debate (there was an answer — arguing about it was pointless) and tried to interrupt to tell them and they keep debating back and form. Frustrated, I said in a loud voice, “If you’d stop talking and listen to me, I can tell you the answer.” My manager then jumped in (I can’t remember what he said), but it was along the lines of “let’s calm down and let BadPlanning finish.”

  27. Changeling*

    A few weeks ago I was standing next to a coworker when his cell phone went off, his ring tone was a duck quack. I tried not to giggle.
    Yesterday I was walking past a different coworker and his phone also quackery.
    I think we have also duck club

    1. Sugar of lead*

      I remember that post! My first thought upon seeing the title was, Did I read that right?

      Quackquack!

    3. AnonMurphy*

      It does make me wonder if enough people reading about the suspected Duck Club have actually SPREAD the Duck Club.

    4. Sled dog mama*

      Several years ago I set my (technologically impaired) husband’s phone to quack when I text him. After reading that story I sometimes text him from across the house to tell him …certain things. Then I fall over laughing.

    5. Gadfly*

      I live next to a park full of geese and ducks, and it does sound like a pretty constant waterfowl orgy going on, 365 days a year. I end up thinking about Duck Club a lot, only making it a bit more literal.

  28. LBK*

    If this is the third week in a row where I’ve pretty much sat at my desk thinking “I hate this job” all day every day, is that my sign that it’s time to leave?

    I think being on vacation for a week at the beginning of March and seeing how the department basically fell to pieces without me was a wake-up call that I’m always going to get heavily leaned on to do the most complex, most bizarre, most frustrating work, and I don’t like that outlook long-term. I enjoy problem solving, but I don’t enjoy having a new urgent mess dumped on me every week, nor do I enjoy coworkers who have been here long enough to make their own judgment calls still relying on me for simple questions.

    It’s partially my fault – as much as I’ve tried to cross-train people, I’ve also fallen into a bad rut of enabling them by just doing the work for them when they come to me with issues rather than leading them to the answer themselves, and I don’t know if I can stick around for the 6+ months it would probably take me to retrain my coworkers (and managers, sometimes!) to problem solve. I feel like the only way it’s ever going to happen is if I pull the plug and leave.

    I’ve also come to terms with the fact that I’m always going to be putting out fires and that no matter how well I put them out, our clients are always going to light more. It’s actually put me in a weirdly zen mood because I’ve realized there’s nothing I can do to make them trust me. No matter how many times they freak out, accuse me of screwing something up and are ultimately proven wrong, they’ll always start from the assumption that if something doesn’t look the way they expected it to, that means it’s wrong. So why bother stressing over it? The outcome is the same either way. But that’s not really a good way to do my job because it kills my sense of urgency, so I think I have to get out before I start getting lazy.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I agree. I had that zen moment at OldExjob, when I realized that no amount of caring and working on my part was going to solve a supply problem, or make my coworkers more likely to take their calls, etc. I had been fighting so hard to get what I needed that I ended up in trouble. At that point, I realized well, I could keep fighting and make it worse, or I could stop caring and at least get through the day. When you don’t care about your job anymore, even a little bit, then it probably doesn’t hurt to start looking.

        1. LBK*

          Yeah…frankly, I’ve been dragging my feet about it because I think it’s time to leave my company completely (I’ve just been moving around internally here for the last 5 years) and hunting for a job at a totally new employer feels like looking for a house in a foreign country. I don’t even know if I’m going to like the country, never mind the house! At least here there’s some level of familiarity even between divisions, so I’ve only been putting myself out there a little bit by looking for internal jobs.

          It’s tough because the company has been good to me, but so far it’s the only non-retail company on my resume, and it feels like it’s time to expand that, both just so I don’t have too long of a stint at one place and for the purpose of becoming a more well-rounded employee by experiencing a different company’s culture.

    2. Anonyforthis*

      Oh, how I can relate! I’m in the same boat, and I’ve long given up on cross-training anyone because no one, besides me, wants to own anything. I am the only one voluntold for major projects and when I go to status meetings, I come out with another huge list of items that may or may not be related to said project. I am also interrupted multiple times a day. My dream is to start over somewhere else and *not* put myself into the same predicament. I fantasize about giving my notice, two weeks only!, and just forgetting about this place altogether. If anyone has successfully moved out of the “Go To” person role, I would love to hear how you did it!

      1. LBK*

        Yeah, that’s my exact sentiment: next time, remember to not make yourself the go-to person, at least not for literally everything. It’s nice at first to feel so indispensable but eventually it makes it impossible to get anything done, and trying to take time off is barely worth it since you just come back to mess.

      2. Chaordic One*

        I gave up on cross-training anyone because we had so many seasonal employees who would work there for 3 to 6 months and then leave and never come back, a high rate of turnover among even so-called “permanent” employees, and the fact that the policy or procedure would probably change in a month or so anyway, so it didn’t seem worth the time and energy that it took.

    3. Delyssia*

      Oh, I empathize so hard with sitting there thinking how much you hate the job all the time. I have a song version. Its only words are “I hate my job” repeating over and over. Just, you know, set to music.

    4. Intrepid*

      I think the last paragraph is your sign to go– especially this bit:

      “No matter how many times they freak out, accuse me of screwing something up and are ultimately proven wrong, they’ll always start from the assumption that if something doesn’t look the way they expected it to, that means it’s wrong.”

      Go somewhere you can win some trust.

      1. LBK*

        That’s definitely the part that’s making me look for the door the most. I can deal with a lot of bad behavior (I know it’s partly just the nature of working in sales support) but I don’t have an ounce of patience for digs at my professional integrity.

  29. bibliovore*

    I said I would check in from my Bologna business trip. It was amazing and well worth going to the Fair. AAM has been a great respite when I couldn’t sleep

    1. Rocky*

      Wow, Bologna is one of my favorite places and I’d jump on pretty much any excuse to go there!

  30. ThatGirl*

    I know that there are a million billion reasons why resumes don’t get through ATS or if they do, why people don’t get called for followup, and it’s not personal.

    But man, 10 years ago when I was job searching I got a lot of interviews, fairly quickly. And I was young and dumb and inexperienced and didn’t interview well, but at least I *got* interviews.

    Now, I’ve got a great resume, a ton more experience, I’m better prepared for interviews and everything else … and after a month I have yet to get an interview, and I’ve only gotten two follow-up calls.

    It’s just kind of discouraging.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Not according to the numbers… in late 2007/early 2008 (when I was actually searching) the recession was just about to start; right now the unemployment rate is 4.5%.

        1. Jadelyn*

          Well, that depends on the area and the industry, too. Some areas are feeling a “talent crunch” that makes it a job-seeker’s market, while others are still an employer’s market. Overall unemployment being down doesn’t necessarily mean anything about the outlook for your region and industry.

        2. Gadfly*

          Wasn’t most of the growth concentrated in lower end jobs (ie, the sort you are now overqualified for)?

    2. FishcakesHurrah!*

      Yes, things are very different now. I wonder if companies are suffering as a result of the software screening, too. It cuts down on time spent sorting resumes, but there is a risk that good candidates are getting sorted out for trivial reasons or mistakes.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      I posted this above, but I’ve been interviewing experienced candidates when I haven’t really interviewed people in 10 years, and back then, most of them were 1.) entry level, or 2.) had decades of experience in one narrow field.

      Even though you get more experience the longer you work, I think it makes job hunting harder. From the outside looking in, I always thought 20 years in “handle management” would show you could quickly pick up “teapot assembly management”, but I was very wrong. The “handle” people do not interview well and really don’t seem to understand the “teapot assembly” job needs. May not apply to you, but it’s difficult to move laterally to different kind of work in my industry, and the opportunities at the other three companies with “teapot assembly” work are limited by cultural fit later in your career.

      1. ThatGirl*

        It is probably true that 4 years of experience, which made me closer to entry level at a lot of jobs, made me a little more marketable because I wasn’t expecting as much.

        I think there are a lot of jobs out there I could do well but my experience has been broad and I can certainly explain in person how my skills would transfer, but it’s possible the ATS or reviewers aren’t seeing that.

    4. LBK*

      As you get higher up and have more qualifications, you’re probably also applying for jobs that have more scrutiny in the hiring process – consider that the bar is usually lower for an entry level employee, since you don’t expect them to have much tailored experience and are often just looking for a bachelor’s degree and some kind of job history that shows you have professionalism and a work ethic. If you’re looking for a senior employee, you’re probably going to be more particular about what qualifications you want.

      As a result, I think the higher up you get, the hiring processes shifts from “rapidly interview anyone who seems relatively qualified, hire the best one” to “leave the position open as long as necessary, only interviewing people who you’re already pretty confident you would hire”. The latter is how it worked for the manager position we just filled; we left it open for about 9 months and only interviewed 3 people in that time.

        1. LBK*

          On the flipside, once you eventually do get a new job, it’ll be encouraging to know you could meet that high bar! But yeah, definitely frustrating in the interim.

    5. Trout 'Waver*

      ATSs are so incredibly demoralizing to job seekers.

      Bad experiences with some ATSs have lead me to not even bother applying at certain places anymore.

    6. ginger ale for all*

      This is just my opinion but I think the managers of jobs on the lower rungs of the ladder grant more people interviews than if they were hiring for a higher level of job. It might be a result of where you are in your career.

    8. SOMA*

      The automatic systems really suck. I’d applied a few times over the years to a big name place but never got an interview. I now have a contact in HR who said she’d take a look at my application. She said I haven’t gotten any further in the application process because I selected ‘Intermediate’ in my skills with Microsoft software and the system only advances those who select ‘Expert’. That seems like such a stupid thing to get booted out of the system for, just because I didn’t want to over-exaggerate my skills but she told me to always pick ‘Expert’ from now on, because it’s not was their hiring people are actually looking for but it’s the way the automatic system weeds out applications.

      1. Intrepid*

        I’ve gotten this advice a lot, about various systems, and my but it seems to defeat the purpose.

      2. Gadfly*

        Let me guess–for a position that barely uses the software? My supervisor once had to have a showdown with HR over having a high type speed cutoff just because, when the job she was hiring for barely required typing. We couldn’t get people with the skills actually needed though the pipeline because of it.

  31. Sadie Doyle*

    I think I’ve finally gotten my kick in the ass to start job hunting. This week I found out that I’m losing my awesome boss. My new boss is okay, but the levels above him are just a big flashing “RUN AWAY” sign.

    I am terrified of job hunting. I haven’t done it in years. I want to get back into my original field and am worried that even with transferable skills, no one will want me. But I won’t know if I don’t try, so try I must :)

    1. k*

      Getting back out there is tough, but at least you’ve discovered AAM as a resource! I know there are some good ones in the archives with tips for changing fields or re-entering fields. Best of luck to you!

    2. hermit crab*

      Losing your awesome boss is HARD. (After I lost mine, I decided to try to fill her shoes, instead of leaving too. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done!)

      However — now you know what an awesome boss is like, so you can keep your eye out for people who seem to fit the bill. Good luck!

  32. Venus Supreme*

    A wonderful senior-level employee is leaving our organization after his contract ended. It’s a mutually agreeable split and there are no hard feelings. Our organization got a poster for him for everyone to sign, and I found a typo in my message after I wrote on it. In Sharpie marker. I am mortified. I’m the frickin’ grant writer here. As soon as I caught it I wanted to melt all my skin off and dissolve into a brick wall.

  33. Giles*

    I just have a tiny rant today:

    People who forward me emails asking me to reply back to someone to tell them we’re not interested in whatever fake award is being offered to us (replying to the person directly would be so much faster than forwarding it to me, seriously, and it’s directed at the original person..)

    Also, the oh-so-wonderful reply-all, where I get eight emails in a row all saying “congratulations!” when someone announces they won a contract. STOOOOP.

    1. Jadelyn*

      Our IT had to put a message that pops up in Outlook when you try to send an email to the all-staff distribution list that says “Please use BCC to avoid unnecessary reply chains”, because people would send all-staff announcements and then people would hit “reply all” and suddenly you’d have 50 emails of “congratulations!” for something you didn’t care about in the first place. I feel your pain!

      1. Natalie*

        The “Ignore” button is gold in those situation – sends all subsequent replies to either your archive or the trash.

        1. Jadelyn*

          HOW DID I NEVER KNOW THAT EXISTED OH MY GOD THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING

          *ahem* Thank you!

  34. Kit M. Harding*

    Kit’s mother’s absurd job hunting advice, part two: She thinks I should get my hair Professionally Styled and this will help me get jobs– employers are seeing that my hair is frizzy and I’m using a leaf-shaped hair-chopsick thing to hold it in a bun and not hiring me based on that. I just keep looking at her going “People who are job hunting can’t afford to get their hair professionally styled before every interview. And who has time?”

    1. Rincat*

      Before EVERY interview??? That’s too much. Also your style that you described sounds perfectly normal and wouldn’t get a second glance from most people (if they noticed it at all). I got my most recent job with some really awful hair – I had bleached it all out (and did a crappy home bleach job) in the prior months because I was dying it fashion colors, so I had this weird brassy/green tint bleached hair with dark brown roots, in a grown-out undercut bob. It looked terrible. I just got a great job with it. My mom was also worried and kept insisting I should do something about it but my days of hair color experimentation are not over yet!

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      What does your mother do for a living and when was the last time she looked for– and got– a new job?

      1. Kit M. Harding*

        Helping profession, and she’s been working where she is for most of my life, but she has some involvement in that place’s hiring. (I don’t know exactly what, but she talks about being on search committees sometimes.)

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          If she would automatically reject someone who had frizzy hair and used an accessory, then she has some really antiquated and problematic hiring practices. You tell her that I have frizzy hair and am gainfully employed. No one has ever rejected me based on my hair. Or my legs, including the time I hobbled into an interview in a walking cast.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      I think appearance matters, but your hair sounds fine. As a bad-type-of-wavy-haired person who wears her hair down and unprofessionally straighten it daily, I really fret about humidity and July interviews.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      The only thing I care about regarding someone else’s hair is if it’s clean and doesn’t have any critters living in it. And it’s not in my food.

    5. SansaStark*

      Do we share a mother? My mother’s piece of job-seeking advice when I was freshly out of college was to cut my hair because my shoulder-length hair was “too long” to be taken seriously. The last time my mom looked for a job was in the early 80s, so maybe things were different then? Idk.

    6. NaoNao*

      My mom is the same way “how will you get hired with unnatural hair color?”

      I interviewed for my now-job with dark brown hair that was dark purple/brown at the ends (I swirled it into a bun, so it was less noticeable) and now that I’ve been here two years I have 100% bright purple/pink hair and other than the occasional compliment, no one has said anything!

      I would say that there is a slight bias against curly hair in very professional or conservative industries, and you *may* want to consider perhaps washing the hair and leaving it slightly damp, pulled up in a bun with an elastic and then slicked with a bit of hair oil (or some similar solution that works for you), that way you can be “chic” without the “pro” part. :)

    7. Not So NewReader*

      “Uh, mom… I don’t think you mean that the way it sounds… there is more to me than my hair. I think you know that. So I don’t think you mean that people look at my hair above all my other capabilities. And to be quite honest, mom, I don’t want to work for an employer who just sees me as having their idea of nice hair.”

  35. squids*

    Last week I was in a meeting with all male colleagues. I was getting talked over and shut out, over and over again. This happens a fair bit when I’m in those sorts of committees — I tend to be quiet, and there are some big personalities and loud voices among the people I work with.

    So this was happening, and midway through one of my colleagues turned to me and said he’d noticed that I kept getting cut off. I said it sucked but I was also sort of used to it. And from that point he started subtly but actively moderating the meeting so everyone had a chance to speak.

    It was ~exactly~ what someone ought to do in that position and I appreciated it so much.

    2. nbbuyer*

      Just wanted to say how great of a post this is. It’s so nice to hear something positive and appreciated!

      1. Notthemomma*

        THIS is what gave me my ‘there is hope for humanity’ smile for today. Thanks- I needed to hear this

    3. hermit crab*

      This is fabulous! Props to your colleague. Doing that sort of thing (“subtly but actively moderating”) takes skill in addition to awareness/perception. It’s so great to hear about things like this!

  36. Not as Young as I Used to Be*

    Any advice on how to end a mentoring relationship at work? Over the past few years I’ve set up an (unofficial) mentoring relationship with a senior member of the agency. He’s been a great sounding board, source of information/perspective on issues, etc. However, our most recent contacts have become uncomfortable; he has started offering advice/instruction on things that are increasingly personal. Nothing sexual; for example, I ran a scenario by him last week, and this week he appeared at my desk with some information on a character flaw he thinks I possess, and that it needs to be fixed. I’m all about self-improvement, uncomfortable truths, and so on – but this last one was so far off base I was actually stunned. I probably dedicated an hour trying to figure out how we got from A to B here, and I still can’t come up with it. I think that some of the generational differences are coming into play more as I advance…there’s about a 20-year difference in our ages, different genders, ideas on work/life boundaries, etc. I don’t have any ill will; I just think that maybe I’ve…outgrown it? Is that a thing?

    Should I just let it taper off into nothing…gently ghost him…what do you think? I am appreciative of his past assistance, and I’m not looking to burn any bridges. Thanks!

    1. Periwinkle*

      I think people can outgrow mentoring relationships. Your idea about letting it taper off is a good one. I’d avoid taking things to him as often but don’t just cut it off abruptly.

      1. ..Kat..*

        Maybe send him a nice note about how you appreciate his mentoring in the past (with a lovely couple of examples). And then say that you don’t want to take up any more of his time since you are now more experienced? (Maybe someone has a smoother way of saying this.). Because it sounds like he has done you some good in the past and it would be nice to acknowledge that.

  37. Rocky*

    Random question: I was asked this in an interview for a food service job when I was a teenager, and I’m now a middle manager in my 40s, I still don’t know why they asked the question or what answer they wanted.

    “Say you were working a shift with a co-worker who you noticed seemed a little down or sad, and it was out of character for her. What would you do?”

    What do you think the interviewer wanted to hear? Or was this just a bad question that doesn’t tell you anything about the candidate?

    (Oh, I didn’t get the job, I’m sure because I was not suitably bubbly as a teenager)

    1. Grits McGee*

      Oh eugh, that question makes me so uncomfortable that my shoulders have physically separated from my body and are slowly floating away like a weather balloon.

    2. k*

      I’ve never been asked that in a interview, but I’ve seen similar questions come up on pre-screening tests for retail type jobs. Those are always multiple choice, and the options are usually “A. Ask them if something is wrong B. Treat them normally and continue working”, and then two obviously wrong answers like “Report them to a manager” or “Tell them to stop acting weird and get back to work”.

      If I had to answer that in an interview, I’d say that I’d ask them if something was wrong, but not push the topic if they said no or didn’t want to talk about it. I think that shows that you aren’t some unfeeling robot, but also won’t push into people’s personal life and stir up workplace drama. I think that’s what they’re looking to know.

      1. Rocky*

        k, that must have been it. It was one of those mass interviews where they have everyone who applies show up at a conference center at one time. From what little I remember, the rest of the questions were of the “screen out social misfits” variety, such as, “Tell me about a book or movie you really like.” No wonder they didn’t hire me.

    3. only acting normal*

      I had a very similar question once. I answered something like “ask them if they’re ok, see if I can help or advise, blah blah”. The HR member of the panel kept making these little head bobs of encouragement ‘go on, not quite there yet’, so I kept expanding. Eventually I said “I’d tell them to talk to their boss”. That was apparently the right answer for them.
      Still a weird question.

      1. Lance*

        I’m really curious what the HR would expect them to talk about with the manager, or why they’d even need to, unless it was affecting their work.

    4. The Rat-Catcher*

      I agree that it’s probably a generic people-skills gauge, and not a great one at that.

    5. Chaordic One*

      I was asked a similar question once when I applied for a fairly low-level job at a library, only it was a customer who was sad and they were checking out a bunch of books about suicide. I answered that I wouldn’t really do anything, except be polite because I don’t know what they person was thinking. I think that was the “right” answer, but I don’t really know.

      I didn’t say that I don’t think libraries need to be the mental health police. Anyway, I didn’t get that job, either.

      1. JanetM*

        Oh dear. Yes. That person might be contemplating suicide, or might be trying to come to grips with the loss of someone who succumbed to suicide, or might be a writer trying to develop a character who was going to suicide, or, or, or….

        1. Lance*

          And never minding that, two likely outcomes of pressing them: making them more upset, or getting yourself in over your head.

          1. Chaordic One*

            I didn’t say so at the time, but I wish I had said something about there being all sorts of different reasons why someone might be both sad and interested in the subject (as JanetM suggested). I also think that it is important to respect the person’s privacy and not jump to conclusions. I might go home after work and pray for the person, but I don’t think I should have interfered in any way.

  38. E-Comm Guy*

    Happy Friday! Here’s one for you….

    This past Monday I had by far the WEIRDEST interview I’ve ever had. Let me explain.

    First, the back story. About a month ago, Fergus, a local recruiter, called me to see if I would be interested in a Teapot E-commerce Manager position he was trying to fill. I looked into the job, thought my skills & background would be a perfect fit, so I told Fergus that yeah – I’d love to talk to them about it. Fergus was thrilled, and said he’d be in touch soon with interview times.

    Fast-forward to last Thursday. My father in-law passed away suddenly, and I knew that I’d have to go out of state for the funeral. So on Friday I reached out to Fergus to let him know what was up, and that I’d be out of town for a few. I didn’t have anything scheduled with them at the time, but it was a “just in case” scenario. Fergus says no problem, sorry for your loss, all that.

    A couple of hours later he calls me, apologizes, and says that Teapot Co. “really, really” wants to have a phone interview with me on Monday – it was imperative that I do this on Monday. I reminded him again that I was going to be out of state – AT A FREAKING FUNERAL – and he was sincerely apologetic and said that he tried to explain that to Teapot Co., but they were “really, really hopeful” that I could accommodate them for about 30 minutes.

    Well, it worked out okay because the memorial service wouldn’t be until Tuesday, so I’d have some quiet time available on Monday afternoon to talk for a few minutes. Fergus and I agreed a time. I would find a quiet place, away from the hordes of family & friends & mourners, and talk to them about this job.

    Monday comes – I’ve got my quiet spot, and I spent the morning researching the snot out of the company. History, sales, taxonomy, SEO, you name it. I’m ready to talk it up.

    At 1:00 PM straight up the interviewer (Jane) called me. The first thing she asks me is, “Do you have any questions for me?” As this is typically a question that comes up at the end of an interview, I said “Not at this time”, figuring I’d circle back around to it.

    Then she says the interview will consist of 3 questions.

    Question #1: “Tell me 10 things you are good at, with examples.”

    Well, this wasn’t what I was expecting at all, so I changed strategies and stumbled my way through as many things as I could think of. Writing, editing, website management, leadership, project management…. In between each one she’d mumble “uh huh” or “okay”, and then she’d say “Next?” I think I managed to come up with 7 or 8 total – it was such an out of left field question that I really had to scramble to come up with something that didn’t sound completely stupid.

    We then came to question 2.

    Question #2: Tell me 10 things you’re NOT good at, and why not.”

    WTF? I’m supposed to come up with things that I can’t do, in order to look like a fool? I’m there to sell myself lady, not put myself down. So I was really dumbfounded by this one.

    I stalled for a minute while I tried to come up with something – she finally said, “Well, I can put down that you’re perfect, but I don’t think that would look very good.”

    Once again – WTF?

    I finally came up with one – “I can be impatient.” I explained that I like to stay on schedule, and if I have to rely on others to complete their portion of a project on time but they fail to do so without a good reason, I tend to become impatient at the delay.

    Her reply? “Well, that doesn’t sound like a bad thing. Can you come up with something else?”

    By this point, I was getting sick of this nonsense. I just said, “No, I cannot. But as you’ll see, my resume closely aligns with the job description, and I’m sure that if we could talk more about that, I could give you a clearer idea of how I can best help you achieve the company’s goals.”

    Instead, she went on to question 3 from her little checklist.

    Question #3: – “I need the names and titles of your last 4 or 5 supervisors, and for when I contact them, I want you to tell me what they will say about you – what your weaknesses are, and how they would rate you on a scale of 1 – 10.”

    Okay. This is it. Last straw. I don’t need this nutball calling anyone and asking them about my flaws. I tried to explain that most of my former supervisors have since moved on to other companies (which is very true), but came up with 3 names from the past. Fortunately she didn’t ask for phone numbers, because I have zero idea how to contact most of them.

    We then came to the bonus round.

    Bonus Round Question #1: “Can you do presentations?” Why, yes. Yes I can. It’s noted as such on my resume. Twice.

    Bonus Round Question #2: “Can you read and write English?” Um, hello?

    Bonus Round Question #3: “Are you comfortable working online?” WHAT THE HELL, LADY!? Didn’t you even look at my resume?

    And then it dawned on me. Jane hadn’t read my resume. She knew nothing about the company, knows nothing about the job, and knows absolutely zero about me or my background. She’s just a talking head, reading her script and couldn’t care if I was an experienced e-commerce guy or a walrus sitting on an iceberg in the middle of the Arctic sea.

    That concluded our interview. The strangest 22 minute conversation I’ve ever had.

    I honestly don’t know if I’m still in the running for the job or not; I haven’t heard anything back since then. In my 30 years of being a working stiff, I figure I’ve been on close to 200, maybe 250 interviews. This was by far the dumbest.

    So that’s my story – I’m sticking to it. I’ll let you know if I ever do hear from anyone again.

    2. SanguineAspect*

      Ugh, gross. After that, I have to assume you’d tell the company to pound sand if they wanted to move forward? Forcing a call with you while you were out of town for a FUNERAL, as if it were imperative, then pulling this nonsense?

    4. Manders*

      Um, what the actual hell?

      Does Jane work with Fergus? Is it possible to tell Fergus that your experience with Jane was extremely weird and you don’t understand what she was trying to do? It sounds like you’re a reasonably hot commodity if recruiters are calling you, so I do think you have some power to set limits on the kinds of hoops you’re willing to jump through.

        1. E-Comm Guy*

          Oh, believe me — I called Fergus the recruiter right afterwards. He was just as blown away as I was. I’m not sure what (if anything) will happen next, but trust me that I’m going to go into anything else with them with a cautious eye.

    5. k*

      That’s baffling. All of those questions are bad. Asking for your last 4 or 5 supervisors? If you’ve been at any of your jobs for more than a year or two you may have to go back pretty far for that many names. Heck, for me that would go back to the retail gig I had in high school.

      I would tell Fergus about this. If he doesn’t know that this is how they operate, he may not want to be sending candidates to them anymore.

    6. Hrovitnir*

      Wooow. Could you and would you be inclined to give feedback about that? Because that would be a bizarre and IMO disrespectful way to conduct an interview at the best of times, but in this context is incredibly inappropriate (insisting on this time for an interview that’s totally cookie cutter and doesn’t even require someone difficult to pin down like a CEO.)

      Just… wut.

    7. Not Australian*

      I’m not trying to diminish the crappy nature of your experience, but I have to tell you this …

      The line about the walrus is just brilliant!

    8. ..Kat..*

      Ten things I am bad at
      – I can’t fly a helicopter
      – I don’t know how to field dress a deer
      – I only know three phrases in Farsi and my pronunciation is terrible
      – I can’t bench press my weight
      – my hearing isn’t as good as it used to be
      – I don’t like doing yard work
      – cute kittens make me itchy (all cats, sadly)
      – I don’t care if my car has not been washed in a year
      – I have never Zumba’ed
      – I have a very low tolerance for stupid interview questions

      1. Hrovitnir*

        It would be amazing if someone could both think of those things on the spot and be game to say them. :D Though they lose their impact if they’re going through a 3rd party to the people actually making decisions.

    9. Been There, Done That*

      After reading your whole experience, I’m just sitting here silent, with my mouth hanging open and an astounded look on my face.

  39. FishcakesHurrah!*

    I’ve been advised by trusted friends that I should stop behaving like an admin assistant at work. (I’ve transitioned out of an admin-assistant role and I want to keep my career going in this direction.) What would that look like? I’ve been working on dressing even more professionally and have been re-directing admin-type requests from colleagues. What else should I be doing?

    1. Rocky*

      Some common things to stop doing: party planning and social committees; scheduling, taking minutes, or cleaning up after meetings. If you’re volunteering to do this stuff, pull back. If you’re being voluntold, gracefully decline.

        1. Rocky*

          I can’t take credit – I think I first saw it on this blog!

          I have a report in a customer outreach/service role who gets voluntold (by colleagues, not me) for social and admin tasks a lot, because of her demographic and personality. I’ve made a lot of comments like, “Virginia is really busy with a high-maintenance customer and probably won’t be able to help with the holiday party this year,” and encouraged her to say no if she doesn’t want to do it. She’s getting good at it!

        2. Liane*

          “Voluntold” is common in Boy Scouts/Venturing, at least in our state. It is a very useful term.

    2. k*

      Due to my desk’s location, some people assume I’m an admin for a higher up at our company. People will often come by and ask where they are, what time they’ll be back, etc. In our office everyone has access to everyone else’s calendar, so this is something I could easily check, but it gives that admin vibe. I had to teach myself not to make it clear that I wasn’t an admin by saying “I don’t know” or “I don’t know, does their calendar say?”. I like being helpful and friendly so this feels blunt to me, but it helps.

    3. SansaStark*

      I’d recommend learning as much about your job’s industry as you can. Read industry blogs, magazines, LinkedIn groups, etc. Just having the knowledge may help you feel more “at home” and help you project the confidence that you belong in this industry. I also second Rocky’s suggestion about not taking minutes, party planning, etc.

      1. caligirl*

        Congratulations! I did the same transition myself 3 years ago and something that really helped me was to ignore the basic instinct to do things like refill the copier with paper, fix a jam in the printer, flip the calendar to the new month in a boss’ office when it was a week in, etc. I also stopped making extra copies of whatever was needed for meetings “just in case”; I learned to bring what I needed and let everyone else take care of their own stuff.

        Little things like that helped to change my mind set.

        Admittedly, sometimes the 15 years EA experience still wants to override the three years of analyst. Yesterday, I overheard two people wondering how to do something in Word that I know how to do but no one asked me and I didn’t volunteer the answer!

  40. Anon for this*

    This week we were informed that sick time must be preapproved and isn’t intended for “unplanned absences”…. Wtf.

    1. peachie*

      UGH, that is ridiculous! It really irks me when management is so petty and clueless about sick leave.

    3. Leatherwings*

      Just let them know ahead of time when you’re planning on puking your guts out or laying in agony all day with a migraine. Easy.
      /s

      1. Annie Moose*

        Ha! Earlier this week I actually ended up throwing up at work (luckily it was preceded by about twenty minutes of feeling like I was going to die, so I was already in the bathroom), and believe me, if I’d known it was happening ahead of time, I wouldn’t have been anywhere near my workplace that day!

        I don’t know that there’s any actually comfortable places to throw up, but I can tell you that “in the bathroom at work, while wearing a suit” is not one of them.

    4. Rebecca*

      If you figure out how to figure out when you are going to get sick suddenly, please let us know. That would be a handy skill to have.

      As an aside, I know people who work for a local company who still assesses “attendance points” for unplanned absences. If you get 12 in a rolling calendar year, you will be fired. One person incurred 5 in one week. Why? She developed a systemic blood infection and was hospitalized and nearly died.

      1. Liane*

        WTH, They didn’t count it as all 1 Occurrence? Even (in)Famous Retailer did that, if you called out at least 3 consecutive days/shifts for the same thing.*
        The most notice I think I gave for illness was 10 minutes at a seasonal job last fall. I went home for lunch (< 1 mile away) after telling my coworkers I was going to take headache meds on my break & hope they work. I get in the door, migraine hits hard. Son, who also worked there but different hours, called for me.

        *2 days = 2 Occurrences, which I *know* led a lot of the, ah, less-stellar employees to call out for at least 3 days when they were fine after 1-2 days.

    5. Teapot Librarian*

      Dear boss,
      I am going to have a migraine next Thursday. Please approve my sick leave request.
      Love,
      Teapot Librarian

      1. Teapot Librarian*

        (Sorry, I hit submit on my reply before I remembered that I hadn’t refreshed the page in a while so I’d likely be repeating someone else.)

      2. Sugar of lead*

        Dear boss,
        I am planning on eating food containing norovirus Tuesday after next and will probably be throwing up for the rest of the week. Please approve my sick leave request.
        Love,
        Sugar of lead.

    7. Mephyle*

      Ask them what kind of leave should be used if you suddenly and unexpectedly become ill or injured. Explain the concept to them if they don’t know what you’re talking about.
      Please find out and report back to us, because we are wondering.

  41. Mine Own Telemachus*

    I just want to share my success story and thank Alison for her advice and books! In February, my contractor position told me they would be ending my contract four months early. I’d just moved to a new (expensive) city and adopted a new pet and was depending on that money to pull me through. I started job hunting right away, and within weeks, had a new position lined up, thanks in large part to Alison’s great advice about cover letters, applications, and interviews. I’m now in a great position with a great non profit, getting paid a wage that suits the costs of living in my area with some room to spare, and all my coworkers are really great (and the vast majority of us are single millennials, which makes me feel much more included than in past jobs!).

    So, yay!

  42. UrbanAchiever*

    This week I had two interviews with the same place. After the first one they asked for a writing sample which I sent and then called my references so I’m feeling pretty optimistic. I would like to ask for something closer to the higher end of their posted salary range. I know I should say given that I bring x value I was hoping for $xx,xxx. It’s just that I haven’t had tons of experience in the field so I’m trying to figure out how to best express my value. I have a lot of education, but not as much experience so I’m not sure how to frame it. For example there is a lot of relationship management and I have a background in mediation and a degree in conflict resolution so that is something important I can point to when or if I need to negotiate. Some aspects of my current job translate well but there is some parts of the new job I don’t have experience with and while I’m confident I could do those things I don’t have proof. It’s nonprofit so I want to start at the higher range since it seems unlikely raises will be significant. Any suggestions?

    1. nbbuyer*

      I’m a government employee (so I’m with you on the unlikely raises), so if I were you, I’d lay out the value that you bring to them, and just state exactly what you did “I was hoping for [something like] $X”. If you have an explanation as to why you feel confident about the parts of the job you don’t have experience with, and haven’t already explained that in the interviews, give them that information. So long as you’re polite and friendly about it, I doubt they’d pull the offer just because you said you were hoping for more.

    2. SansaStark*

      As a fellow non-profit worker, I agree that it’s smart to at least shoot for the higher end of their range. In my years of negotiating salary, I’ve never had to really “justify” the number I start with. Usually the offer letter comes with a salary and then I counter with the number I have based off of market research and softer things like the commute, etc. I agree that if it comes down to playing hardball, it would be difficult to demonstrate your value if you don’t have any proof of bringing that value to another employer. I think it would be smart to reiterate the conflict resolution degree because those are skills that are difficult to teach, so you’d be in a good position to hit the ground running. Typically the nonprofits I’ve worked at needed that new person NOW, so it’s always good when we can hire someone who can start at least some aspect of the job with minimal training. Good luck!

      1. UrbanAchiever*

        That is good to know, that you didn’t have to justify your starting number. They do seem to be in a hurry to hire. I had the email to set up the second interview within five minutes of leaving their office. Thanks!

  43. Manders*

    So I had a chat with some other members of the support staff and found out that they’ve *all* been told that they would get a performance review soon, and that the manager who told them has blown every deadline she set for when they would be happening. She’s also been giving people contradicting information (like telling one person that reviews were being done on a rolling basis, the next that they were being done at the end of the year, etc). Performance reviews are the only time that raises can happen.

    My direct boss asked me to come to him if I have any suggestions for improving employee morale. The problem is, I already have talked to him about this, and he said that the “wheels were turning” on performance reviews. Now he’s out for paternity leave and the person who’s supposed to be doing them is clearly not on top of it.

    My problem: I’ve got one foot out the door right now, in large part because of this. The office is in the downtown area of one of the most expensive cities and rapidly growing cities in the world. Keeping up with the cost of living is a huge, HUGE deal to the staff. I would consider staying if I got a raise, but I’m getting sick of having that carrot dangled in front of me.

    If you were me, what would you do? Job search and say nothing? Try to bring it up again? Bring it up, implying that I might be job searching soon if I hear nothing about it? It would be difficult for my boss and my grandboss if I left right now, but I feel like I’ve given them plenty of chances to keep me.

    1. Adam*

      Just start searching without telling them. It’s business, and they’ve had plenty of chances to keep yours.

      1. Baby Grand*

        Is there a history of this kind of thing? or is it just a one-off because your boss is on leave? If there’s a history, I would say start searching. As someone who lives in NYC, I get the issues of living in an expensive city and while a 2-4% cost of living increase won’t make a dent in the larger scheme of things, loosening the belt a notch is still a relief.

        1. Manders*

          Yep, there’s definitely a history of it since it’s happening to everyone. You’re right–I should start sidling toward the exit.

          I’m in Seattle and currently in the process of buying a condo. I’ve been living in an underpriced apartment with someone I can split the rent with while I saved up enough to purchase a place. The home buying process has brought a lot of feelings about income and living expenses to the surface.

  44. Red Reader*

    Found out this morning I got the max on our annual raise range :-D effective the day I go on my next vacation to boot!

  45. Fortitude Jones*

    I had an exciting week on the job search front! I applied for a risk, legal, and insurance coordinator position at a smallish company on Sunday, and on Wednesday they contacted me to ask if I was available for a phone interview today. Well, I should have read the Glassdoor reviews before applying because even though they have a pretty good rating (3.5), there was a pattern of cons in almost every review that gave me pause. The biggest thing is the company isn’t very diverse – they flat out state there are no minorities in management positions and almost none in mid-tier or lower-level positions. As a black woman, that’s very concerning to me. I don’t want to work for a company that whitebread. The reviews also said the company has a flat hierarchy where promotions are few and far between, and the ones that are given are based on who’s buddy-buddy with upper management, not on merit. And the biggest problem I saw mentioned in the reviews were that their raises and bonuses were drastically cut because their industry is currently struggling. The main reason I’m trying to leave my current company instead of transferring internally is because of their BS “merit increases” that are actually just cost of living increases. Even if I managed to secure the position and could negotiate a decent salary, I’d wind up back in the position I’m in now.

    So I passed on this opportunity, but the reason I’m excited is because I’ve never gotten a response that quickly after putting in a resume (I didn’t even submit a cover letter for the job, my skills were so closely matched to the job posting that I don’t think they cared). It was only the sixth application I’ve completed this go around, and I only started seriously applying to external positions two weeks ago – I want to believe this means I’m on the right track with the types of jobs I’m applying for. I’m praying that I didn’t make a mistake by passing on this one though. There’s a little voice in my head saying, “What if this was it? What if no one else responds to you and this was your one chance to get out?” I really hope that’s not the case and that this job search doesn’t take as long as the one I did prior to coming to this company – that one took a year and seven months, and it was brutal on my self-esteem.

    1. The Rat-Catcher*

      That voice is almost never right. I think you’re right that it’s promising that you got an interview so quickly! Congrats!

  46. anon for this~~~*

    I’m feeling weird about something that happened at work this week, and hoping some of y’all can weigh in. A close family friend passed away last week from breast cancer, and I took a day off to attend the funeral. I cleared this with Supervisor A, who actually manages my work, gives me projects and feedback, and to whom I report directly. I mentioned the day off to Supervisor B, who manages my group of junior-level employees in a more HR-like sense (we clock in and out with her, etc.; she does not give us projects or generally know what we are working on).

    Supervisor B says that’s fine but asks me to stop by her office. I do and she opens with “Who died?” I’m caught off guard but I answer. B asks me a bunch more questions such as “Was she in hospice care? What medications was she on? How long was she sick? Was her family there when she died? How did the disease progress/spread?” And a few others. I was really caught off guard and kind of upset after. It just felt really personal, prying, and intrusive, and I didn’t want to discuss it, but because she’s a supervisor, I did.

    For the record. Supervisor A just said I’m sorry for your loss, of course you can take the day off, without any questions. Am I right to feel weird about what happened with B? Thanks in advance for any input.

    1. peachie*

      Oof, yeah, I’d feel weird. I’m not sure there’s anything you can do/say, but yeah, that seems (at the very least) incredibly rude. Could you mention it to Supervisor A?

    2. Manders*

      Yeah, that’s super weird and intrusive. I really don’t understand what Supervisor B expected to get out of that line of questioning.

    3. Murphy*

      Yeah, that’s very weird. Sounds like she was quizzing you to make sure you were telling the truth? (Though I don’t know why you’d have that level of information.)

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      That is super awkward, so yes, you are right to feel weird about it.

      My first thought was that someone close to her has been recently diagnosed and she was trying to get more information? That might be too charitable though and she may just be incredibly nosy. In the future, even though she’s a supervisor, I think it’s perfectly reasonable for you to say “I’m sorry, but I’m not comfortable discussing those details.”

      And I’m sorry for your loss.

      1. Teapot Librarian*

        This was how I read the line of questioning as well, though definitely I wouldn’t have heard it that way in the moment.

      2. Elizabeth H.*

        I agree – it sounds to me a lot like she had some personal connection with it and she was going through her own feelings/fears/questions about it without realizing how it comes off or even being aware of the situation she was asking these in.

    5. SarahKay*

      I think that’s weird. The first question, maybe, is not horribly odd, although still not good, but the rest is definitely just prying. Or trying to check up on you / catch you out, which is so not acceptable. You’ve suffered a loss and she’s making a tough situation worse.

    6. SeptemberGrrl*

      I’m sure it was tough to think in the moment because the question were so off-putting, but for anyone else who runs into a similar situation, just keep in mind you can say No without being a jerk if someone is being intrusive. when my mom died, I really did not want to talk about it at work in any detail. The couple of people who did try to get into detail beyond “Sorry for your loss” — and I’m sure they were doing it out of kindness/interest — I said “I appreciate your good wishes, I’m not really comfortable talking about it right now”. There was one person who pressed me still after that and I repeated it, looking her right in the eye. And she stopped. My guess is your supervisor knows someone dealing with the same issue and was curious, and didn’t realize it was coming across as intrusive.

    7. NoMoreMrFixit*

      Supervisor or not, I would have responded that it’s none of her business and complained to her boss. This is horribly intrusive. Plus it sounds like she didn’t believe you were going to a funeral and wanted to trick you into exposing that. Definitely mention this to your regular supervisor. Nobody deserves that type of abuse.

    8. Anon for this*

      This is super weird and none of her business! The question of who is was would be relevant if you have a bereavement policy that gives more or fewer days off depending on the relationship you have with the person, but if you just took a vacation day, then it’s not her business at all. And it’s more concerning that she has an HR-type of role. Could you talk to her about it later, and let her know that her comments were inappropriate (if you feel comfortable)? Or maybe mention it to Supervisor A and ask for advice on dealing with it? She’ll probably do this to other people in the future, so best to try to stop it now.

    9. Annie Moose*

      Oh wow! That is REALLY out of line!

      I can maybe see, like… “oh, that’s terrible that you’re going to a funeral, who died? Oh, what did they die from?” but anything beyond that is absolutely not her business!

    10. Celeste*

      That’s just so awful. If you have the time, you should be able to take it with a simple explanation. Even if she is facing similar in her own life, she did not have grounds to grill you like that. Google and support groups exist.

    11. The Rat-Catcher*

      You are absolutely right. Weird, weird, weird.

      On the generous end of the scale, maybe supervisor B was just trying to take a personal interest in you (albeit in a weird and intrusive way). On the extremely ungenerous end, I could also see judgment for taking time off for a non-family death (which is just horrid).

      I don’t think it would be out of line to say something like “It’s difficult for me to discuss this right now/I’d like to keep my composure at work.” or something like that.

    12. Not Alison*

      After reading the comments on this letter, I agree that B grilling you was weird (and probably bad form), but I would not run to A and tattle-tale on B. At least not without going back to B and in a nonconfrontational manner saying that you were taken aback by her questioning and wondered why she was asking you for all of that detail information. Once you have that information you will be in a better position of determining if there is a reason to say anything to A.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Agreed. B could have thought she was just showing concern and caring and not thinking beyond that.
        It’s fine to feel weird, but for your own peace of mind try to hold it in a neutral or positive light.
        Going forward, you could say, “I’m sorry I’m really not up for talking about it.”

  47. peachie*

    Does anyone who’s a woman and/or feminine-presenting have visible, unshaven legs, and have you ever run into problems with people being rude or it affecting how you’re seen? It’s bananas to me that this should be such a big deal–I don’t care about it in any other situation, but I’m worried that being pegged as ‘that weird lady’ at work might not be worth it. (I’ve always shaved in the past but stopped over the winter due to bad-quality water really drying out my skin. I can now shave again, but I haven’t, mostly because it seems like a lot of work and I truly don’t care–but it feels weird that I feel like I have to go back to it to seem work-appropriate. I wouldn’t get in trouble for it and I doubt anyone would say anything, but it might come across as odd in my off as odd in my [non-client facing] office environment.)

    1. Rincat*

      The only time I’ve ever noticed visible leg hair on a woman was during a dance rehearsal where I was eye level with the woman’s legs on stage, and she was wearing dance hot pants. I am a woman who tends to notice a lot of these types of details because I like fashion and shoes and I’m constantly looking at people’s shoes. That being said, I don’t think I’ve ever noticed the hair on someone’s legs at work, because 99% of the time they are wearing pants (even cropped or ankle pants), or a knee-length or longer skirt or dress, and it’s just too hard to tell. While I like looking at shoes I try not to stare, so I don’t really get a long look, and people are moving around, or have their legs under tables for meetings, etc. So I think unless you are wearing a really short skirt or hot pants, it shouldn’t be an issue. I myself often wear ankle pants to work with hairy ankles, and that’s the hairiest part of my leg.

    2. Lillian Styx*

      I think it’s becoming more and more common and thus acceptable but ultimately it’s really going to depend on the culture in your office. The most I do is buzz it off with an electric trimmer when the hair starts getting smushed the wrong way. It’s quick and there’s no painful regrowth and I don’t wear skirts or shorts anyway so the most people see are furry ankles here and there.

      I happen to like furry legs on women, aesthetically speaking! It’s natural and such a #look :)

      1. peachie*

        I do too! (My personal reasons are less aesthetic, though, and more “UGH, why aren’t men expected to do this??”)

      1. LKW*

        Haven’t shaved, might wax every few months but I don’t wear skirts. Still, if anyone has issue with my hairy ankles, that’s on them. I don’t care.

    4. Sugar of lead*

      It’s such a small detail that I doubt anyone will even notice. If they do, well, it’s not so unusual anymore. There’s a fair amount of pushback against conventional beauty standards, especially for women. I wouldn’t worry about it.

      1. Rookie Manager*

        I think the noticing depends a lot on you skin tone contrasting with your hair colour. My skin is very pale and hair very dark so any leg hair is very obvious. A blonde with olive skin tones or dark skin/dark hair wouldn’t have that issue.

        That said, if you don’t want to shave, don’t. Unless you are a professional swimmer or cyclist it won’t affect how good you are at your job!

    5. Rat in the Sugar*

      I don’t let my fuzzy legs out at work, but I have definitely walked around town with booty-shorts and hairy legs. Honestly I’m pretty positive that no one even noticed; I went out like that with my sister and she didn’t mention it. In the past she has teasingly pointed out when I missed a spot shaving, so either she doesn’t notice when my entire legs are unshaven (as opposed to a random hairy patch on the back of my ankle, ugh) or she assumes I must be doing it on purpose and has chosen not to comment. Either way, I don’t think that it’s that big of a deal.

      1. peachie*

        Yeah–that’s my thought too. I wouldn’t ever think to say anything even if I did notice!

    6. Celeste*

      Hopefully no one is looking that closely. I don’t know how often you wear skirts and dresses, but if they don’t have to be formal and you can get away with tights or opaque stockings, I would do that.

      1. peachie*

        I hope so, too! And, fortunately, my work is very much business casual; I could certainly wear tights or stockings, as I do the rest of the year, but oof, WAY too hot in the summer. The thing is, I could just shave my legs like normal–and I probably will; it’s annoying and I hate the expense, but ultimately not a hill I feel the need to die on. But at the same time, I’m mentally really pushing back on this idea that I have to either do something that takes time/money/energy or cover myself so no one will be subjected to something pretty benign–and that that’s solely based on my gender. Y’know? Again, I’ll probably let this one die, it’s just really been irking me lately.

        1. Someone*

          While can understand that shaving takes some time, I’m honestly amazed to see it mentioned as expensive.
          I use cheap lady’s razors and shave in the shower using leftover shampoo from my hair. It works fro me and takes maybe 3 minutes. And I might well use the same razor for months – they dull a bit, but with a bit determination they still do their job. I only recently got a new package and I can’t remember when I bought the one before that. Certainly more than half a year ago. Which means that my shaving expenses are something like 1-2€ per 6 months. And a slightly higher water bill for rinsing the shampoo off my legs.
          I can live with that.

    7. Student*

      I’m a woman. I don’t shave my legs. I always wear pants.

      On the rare occasion somebody notices my legs are unshaven, odds are pretty good I’ll get an unkind comment, but it’s more tempered criticism because I’m wearing pants so I’m clearly not “displaying” my legs; people are more understanding about it if hairy women legs are covered.

      I expect I would get a lot of unkind comments and be viewed negatively by many of my colleagues if I wandered around in shorts or a skirt with my unshaven legs. I work with a conservative and heavily male-dominated group of people – though I suspect the younger crowd (both men and women) would be the most openly unkind, while the older crowd would be silently judgemental. I don’t personally like skirts, and I’m not particularly attached to shorts, so I am pretty happy with the wear-pants-and-never-shave solution. If that’s an option you’d enjoy, embrace it! Pants come in many styles.

      If you want to go out with your legs both uncovered and also unshaven, then I expect you will get (entirely sexist, inappropriate, but also deeply entrenched and likely impossible-to-effectively-counter) criticism, that people will consider you “that weird lady”, or “unclean”, or similar. There will be a couple people like me who don’t give it a second thought and agree that shaving legs is silly, but as far as I can tell we are vastly outnumbered.

      1. peachie*

        Yep, your last paragraph is basically where I’m at (though I don’t think anyone would actually say anything to my face). I’m probably going to cave for exactly those reasons, but, ugh! It somehow feels like I’m the one making a huge deal by not wanting to do it, when really, it’s bizarre how totally compulsory it is.

        1. Zathras*

          It really is bizarre. What’s most obnoxious to me is the people who act like you are somehow ‘gross’ or ‘dirty’ for not shaving, but they don’t think men’s legs are gross or dirty.

          I want to shake those people and say, look, we can have a conversation about whether or not it’s part of being well groomed in situations where that’s expected, but there is no place for complaining that I’m gross because I went running in shorts with obvious leg hair. I once had a job that involved working outdoors and living in a tent without any running water etc. for weeks at a time; we had to carry in everything we had, so I left my razor at home. One of the guys – who actually reported to me – told me I was gross for not shaving my legs. I ripped him a new one but he just shrugged and said “well X does it.” X being the only other woman working with us at the time.

          It drives me nuts that society expects women to look perfectly groomed at all times. A guy can run out to the store in old stained sweatpants with 3 days beard stubble and nobody thinks anything of it.

    8. Sasquatch*

      Female, stopped shaving a couple of years ago due to skin condition. I usually wear trousers to work because it is cold in my work space but in the summer I do wear capris and ankle length skirts. I have a spring/fall weight shin length skirt. My workplace is casual, I’m not public-facing and nobody has ever said a word. Now, keeping that in mind I am fair skinned with light-medium sparse leg hair, so in warmer months I bleach it blond (it’s a Brazilian thing, Google it). I did feel weird for the first couple of months when I stopped shaving but now I don’t give a rat’s arse. Only person who notices is spouse to which I reply by making Bigfoot noises & ignoring them.

    9. LawPancake*

      Eh, unless your leg hair is super dark and visible I don’t think most people will notice. I half heartedly shave maybe every other week, which keeps the ingrown hairs at bay, and wear skirts probably 2-3x a week. My leg hair is pretty light colored but definitely not invisible so if anyone has noticed they haven’t said anything.

  48. SanguineAspect*

    I just need to vent about my office space for a second–don’t really need advice, but always happy to have commiseration, especially if you’ve got a similar Tale of Woe!

    Our office is in an older office building (formerly a warehouse space) and there is NO sound-proofing in the ceilings/floors, so we can hear people upstairs from us fairly well. The folks upstairs are a non-profit focused on education and they have a lot of events during the week. Tons of people come to their office for events on Thursdays and Fridays and it sounds like most of the time, they’re running some sort of team building sessions.

    Sometimes, those sessions involve loud music (one day, they played “Hotline Bling” on repeat for a full hour). Sometimes, the sessions involve large groups of people chanting or reciting things in unison. Often, they’re stomping or jumping on the floor hard enough that all of our desks have little bits of paint from the ceiling fall onto our desks.

    This week, the noise has been particularly eyebrow-raising:

    – Yesterday, they were doing something where they made up new lyrics (about their mission) to the Backstreet Boys’ song “Everybody” and then had everyone sing it loudly while stomping their feet (I have to imagine they were doing some sort of synchronized dance?). This went on for probably 30 minutes while those of us in my office looked up at the ceiling with a mix of bemusement and frustration.

    – Today, they were singing “I’m Gonna Be” loudly while marching during the “I will walk 500 miles…” chorus. That song is now stuck in my head and I can’t decide if I find it hilarious or insanely obnoxious.

    1. Alton*

      I’m sorry you have to put up with that (it sounds really distracting), but I’m laughing at the thought of all the synchronized dancing and stomping. That’s annoying and hilarious.

      How much song and dance-based team building do they need?!

      1. SanguineAspect*

        I have no idea. I guess they believe that there is NO SUCH A THING a too much song and dance-based team building.

    2. SarahKay*

      Wow, that would drive me up the wall. I used to work in a shop so can ignore a reasonable level of noise, but endless songs on loud repeat – yikes! Sending you lots of sympathy, and virtual ear plugs.

      And…I know you said you don’t need advice, so feel free to ignore the next bit, but do they also have upstairs neighbours? Is it possible they don’t realise how much the sound travels down. I daresay they can’t stop the singing, etc, but if they swapped the stomping for clapping, would that help at all? Even if only to keep the paint on your ceilings rather than your desks!

      1. SanguineAspect*

        Unfortunately, this Non-Profit has two floors of this building. The one upstairs from the loud floor is where I think most of their administrative offices are (as the signs posted in the elevator for their various events never direct people to the 5th floor, only the 4th). If the loudness is annoying their upper-management, they’re not doing anything about it. I am grateful that I can wear my headphones and drown it out most of the time, but it makes finding a quiet place to take conference calls challenging sometimes!

    3. Lillian Styx*

      Yeah I’ve been dealing with construction noises in my building almost constantly over the last two years. Maybe even longer?? How soon before utter insanity becomes the new normal…?

    4. Hrovitnir*

      Oh my god. I really can’t tell how much that would do my head in, but second-hand that is hilarious. I think hilarious and incredibly obnoxious can be experienced together. :D

    5. General Ginger*

      Oh, I feel your pain, so much! I work in exactly the kind of building you’re describing, right underneath a dance and zumba studio. I have no advice, because unfortunately, this isn’t really the kind of noise we can just tune out with headphones, and nothing fixes the bits of paint and building dust falling from the ceiling issue. But I sympathize a lot.

    6. Not Alison*

      At a time when it is really loud, can you ask someone from their office to come down and hear how loud it is? Maybe this would help them understand the problem and do something to rectify it themselves. This might work better if you can touch base with someone from upstairs ahead of time and alert them to the issue and that you (or the appropriate person from your office) will invite them to your office to check it out when it is so loud. Just an idea.

    7. Chaordic One*

      When I volunteer at the Library Used Book Store it is in a room in a daylight basement beneath a part of the library that has been converted into a performance space. Sometimes while the used book store is open there are live simulcasts of the New York Metropolitan Opera going on upstairs above us, sometimes old movies being played, but the noisiest are when a local Shakespeare troop rehearses up there and there’s a whole lot of jumping around and hollering.

      We used to play music in the Book Store, but were told to stop because they could hear it upstairs during the operas.

  49. theater volunteer*

    I’m in charge of marketing/PR for a community theater group and finally got the budget approved for an intern this summer! Yay! But I’m in need of some advice on how to help manage an intern for a partially remote position – we have rehearsal space but not offices, so a lot of our business and computer work is done from home/coffee shops/etc. What are your tips/tricks/best practices for working with a new remote worker and keeping communication lines open and managing expectations and deadlines?

    1. SarahKay*

      For me Lync/Skype is invaluable for this sort of thing. A number of local tasks for my site got passed over to a team in a different country, and while I wasn’t the direct manager of the remote team, I was responsible for the completed work being what it needed to be.

      When we started we had daily meetings by Lync every morning – just 15 minutes, highlights of what was needed that day, any priorities or questions. After about a month we switched to weekly meetings, but with the understanding that I was just there, on the other end of the phone (well, the other end of the Lync call, but you get my meaning) and that I’d much rather be asked a question on how to do something, than on how to fix something that they didn’t like to bother me with asking how to do something.

      It helped that the team I had were good at using initiative, making good notes on what I’d shown them, etc, so I didn’t become ‘mommy’, and seen as a replacement for them thinking for themselves.

    2. Rookie Biz Chick*

      I’ve had a great experience at a local coworking business. Mine has a basic memberships for $100 per month and conference space available and other amenities for a fee. If this is a consideration and in the budget, y’all could plan to have overlapping ‘office hours’ together a few times per week. And if not in the budget, meeting at the coffee shop would serve similar purpose.

      We also have a couple of calls and a Skype appointment each week with my remote intern. At the beginning it felt like I was micromanaging a bit by just giving small tasks one at a time, discussing it on the phone|Skype|webinar, then checking on progress a few days later, but it’s worked well in allowing him to ask questions often without feeling like he’s ‘bugging me’ and build slowly into more autonomous work. We also use Basecamp for project management (task items rather than financial) which is interactive enough and a great way to stay organized.

      For me, being super-patient and ruthlessly keeping to those calls and check-ins has typically kept us on track. Being upfront and continuing to communicate that asking {what he may perceive to be} a ‘dumb’ question or clarification is waaaaay better than having to redo work a week or so later.

      Congrats on your new intern!

    3. SophieChotek*

      I’ll be your intern…=) I love theater…

      I think making expectation and guidelines clear – and probably making deadlines firm.
      And if its an intern – probably expect some correction/coaching, as you figure out how to work with someone (less experienced?)…

      Even just setting up best modes of communication, how soon they can expect a reply, how much agency they have (versus they have to run everything by you), should this all be done during a “normal” workday, or do you expect this to be in evenings or weekends…?

      1. Gadfly*

        I am only rather fond of theater, but I’m interested if you decide to recruit here. And I am just finishing a marketing management BS ( and have 7 years experience in print advertising….)

        Skype or phone calls and google docs (or similar) with clear deadlines and lots of progress reports/monitoring. Make clear from moment one that “do it all the night before I need it at 8 am” is NOT okay.

  50. CherryScary*

    Mentorship/being a mentor!

    We’re hiring some new people in our office, and we have a semi-formal mentorship environment. All new hires get a mentor within their department who can help guide them through team processes and general office norms. Most of our new hires are straight out of college. In conversations with my boss, I am on the short list to mentor one of our new teammates.

    I’m already planning on doing weekly/biweekly meetings for the first few months as they get their footing, and will probably taper off to monthly meetings. We have an onsite cafe, so I don’t mind making these meetings walk/talk and grabbing midafternoon snacks. Any other ideas on how to be a good mentor to a new grad? I’m a few years out of college, so the first professional job stuff is fairly recent.

    1. Insert Nickname Here*

      Along with the professional, job-based mentoring, offer to help with any culture questions they have and make them feel safe to open up to you. Sometimes those are the scariest things to ask; “Are these shoes appropriate for work?” “Can I wear headphones?” all of that stuff that often is asked on here. I wish someone had done that for me!

    2. katamia*

      I don’t know what your job duties are or what the new employees will be doing, but one thing that really helped me when I was mentored at one of my past jobs (which didn’t work out for unrelated reasons) was that my mentor was really great about being available for short questions by email. We had weekly meetings that were about the big picture of how I was doing/how I was feeling, but if I needed to know something Right Now, I could email him and he would respond very quickly.

    3. Lizard*

      I would stick to scheduled check ins every other week even after they have their feet under them–these can be 15 minutes but carves out the time and space for them to ask you for help and get formal feedback. You should be very direct in your feedback, including providing actions for what needs to change. Also make sure to provide positive feedback on things they’re doing well so they know to keep doing it!

  51. Karenina*

    Ack. I just got into the office at 9:15 (my usual time) because I completely forgot that the department-wide monthly meeting (led by the CFO) was this morning at 9.

    Since I think it’s better to be absent than disruptive, I decided against going into the meeting late (and calling attention to being late, to boot).

    However, my manager is out of the office until Tuesday. Should I write her a note in email to let her know that I missed it and won’t let it happen again, or am I making too big a deal out of this?

    1. Karenina*

      Heh, nevermind. My coworkers came out of the meeting (which apparently started at 8:30, not 9) and apparently the CFO was really pissed off in the meeting today. At first I thought they were teasing me, but no: the room was a lot emptier than he is used to, so he apparently yelled at the room of people who WERE there.

      This is very unlike him. He’s a fairly calm person. Even my coworkers who have been here longer were taken aback at how he lost it. Granted, the two people who made sure to tell me how upset he was are also the two coworkers who are always stirring up as much drama as they can, but even our group head (slightly above my manager) seemed unnerved and told me (somewhat anxiously) to make sure not to miss any others.

      Now I’m just going to keep my head down and get through the rest of the day. I can’t really manage the CFO’s tantrum or take sole responsibility for it. Several people are on PTO, and the culture of this office means that lots of people work from home on Fridays. Personally, I think losing his temper as it was described to me is wholly inappropriate and not the right way to address the problem if you think people are skipping your meetings.

      In any case: I went through the meetings as they’re scheduled for the next few months and made sure to put 18-hour reminders on the calendar events so that I get a pop-up the day before. I certainly don’t want my coworkers or bosses yelled at again for no good reason.

      1. Isben Takes Tea*

        I would still give your manager a heads-up, so you’re showing proactive responsibility-taking. That’s better than her hearing it directly from the CFO and coming to you about it.

        1. AnonEMoose*

          I agree with this. This situation reminds me of something I ran into a number of years ago (different role, different boss, same company). There was a person who wasn’t a direct boss to me, but higher in the organization. Nice enough, but VERY conflict-averse.

          Anyway, I skipped a company meeting because I had a lot of work to do, and was going to be out later than week due to a personal commitment. Perfectly rational thing to do, right? And approved by my direct supervisor. But for several days after that, I had to listen to non-direct boss go on about how “motivating” the meeting was.

          Never said anything to me directly, or asked me why I hadn’t gone…just talked about how motivating it was, and so on. Never mind that, given a choice between attending one of those meetings and a root canal, I’d think something like “at least they give you drugs for a root canal….”. I never told him that, but I was tempted. And I was annoyed because the whole reason I didn’t suck it up and go was because I was trying to get somewhat time-sensitive work done. Plus I hate that kind of passive-aggressive crap; if you want to know why I didn’t go – try asking me!

    2. Violette*

      I’d only say something if you think she’ll find out anyways. If it’s a big enough deal for someone else to mention it to her, then you could preempt that with your own email. If it’s not an important enough meeting for people to notice or care that you were gone, then I probably wouldn’t bother!

      1. Violette*

        Whoops, commented before the page refreshed with your response. That sounds really inappropriate of the CFO!

        1. Karenina*

          I agree! I’m sure something else is going on that made him so reactive and aggressive, but hoo boy. Get a massage, don’t yell at your employees.

  52. Heaven*

    Can I get some reassurance that I’m not being inconsiderate and am in fact doing something totally normal?

    I’m a recent grad who works at a big brand UK fashion retailer as a sales assistant. Initially this was because I was desperate for work and positions related to my degree (Law) were nonexistent in my tiny, poor, northern hometown and I couldn’t afford to move.

    Turns out I love fashion! I love the company, and I can see myself being happy building a career with them. To the point I have my eye on a position at head office as a merchandiser admin assistant aimed at grads. I feel like my chances should I apply are good and I am now able to afford the move it would require.

    However… One of my co-workers recently transferred to a position with better hours in another location and my manager just hired her replacement and expressed palpable relief to have a full roster of staff again. So now I feel guilty about bringing this up because I feel like I’m abandoning her. Even though the closing date for applications isn’t even until the end of July.

    I need to talk to my manager before applying because there’s a different application route for internal candidates and also I want to let her know that I’m not actively jobseeking, but this position popped up on my radar and it would be too good an opportunity to pass up.

    Additionally, I’m engaged to a fantastic American woman and we’ve been struggling with the question of which of us is going to move. Pre-Trump I was very positive I wanted to go to the US. Now… I would feel a lot more comfortable with her coming here, but UK law states I would have to be earning over £18,600 per year for her to come here on a fiancee visa. There’s no chance of me earning anything like that now, but this position would see me just over the threshold.

    I just need to stop feeling guilty, because my manager is a decent and reasonable person and there’s no reason to think she’d take offense to this.

    1. SarahKay*

      You’re not being inconsiderate, and you are doing something totally normal. I’ve been in your manager’s position, and yes, it’s frustrating to lose someone, especially a good someone, but I’ve always, always wished them well. People leave, it’s the way it goes. Please, please, apply for the new position and build your career. And good luck!

      1. Lily Rowan*

        Yeah, that! It is totally normal, and decent managers are happy for their good employees’ progress.

        1. Heaven*

          Thank you, everyone, the encouragement means a lot! I’m going to talk to my manager when I’m next able and cross my fingers my application goes well!

    2. k*

      You are doing a totally normal, 100% okay thing. People change jobs, and the timing is never perfect. That’s just part of doing business and any reasonable manager will understand that it’s not personal.

      And good luck with to new position and congrats on you’re engagement! It sounds like you’re in a really good place in you’re life and I’m happy for you! Don’t let worry about this get you down :)

      1. Heaven*

        Thank you! And it’s true, I am in a really good place. It’s been easy to get bogged down in stress over the past couple of years, but I have a solid partnership and I’ve found a job sector I really love, so the positives outweigh any negatives right now. :)

    3. Hrovitnir*

      Oh man, there is nothing to feel bad about. You’re going to, but a good manager won’t hold it against you even if she is sad! That’s exciting on multiple fronts, good luck!

      1. Heaven*

        Thanks for the encouragement! I’m going to talk to my manager when I next get chance.

  53. FN2187*

    Going to my first networking event tonight! There will be leaders and other very important people in my future industry there, and I’m a nervous wreck. What if I spill my cocktail all over a judge or something? Does anyone have any experience with making events like these successful? Better yet, does anyone have any disaster stories?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Well I super hate these events and avoid them like the plague, but the closest to a disaster story (which was really more funny than disaster) was the time a very gregarious supreme court justice I’d taken a class with grasped my hand with both of his and didn’t let go through our entire five minute “and what are you up to these days” conversation. And then he swung me around so we could get our picture taken without actually letting go of my hands. That was fun. A good friend of mine had a different supreme court justice make some deeply awkward comments about her weight, and then unsuccessfully try and dig himself out of the hole when he realized she was pregnant. Judges: they’re awkward people too!

      Just don’t drink more than one or two (or less if you don’t drink much), stay away from dips and sauces, and nod and smile a lot.

  54. Anon Anon for this*

    “Thanks for your work on this. As for next steps, we’ve asked T* to look into a few things. T will contact all the people you’ve already been in touch with, will bring up the topic at the next cross-organizational meeting** to solicit more info from people (who haven’t researched it), and in that way you can learn more. This is such a leadership opportunity for you! ***”

    * T is a person outside our organisation who has basic knowledge of this project, from whom I received the first few steps which led to months of research.

    ** At the last cross-organizational meeting, I briefed everyone on what I’d discovered on this topic as it relates to our industry. People asked lots of questions, which I was able to answer confidently. I’ve had people since then reach out for more info as it relates to their organisation.

    *** I’m having a hard time seeing this as a leadership opportunity. It feels like my work is being dismissed and questioned. “Hey everybody across the region who attends these meetings! We’ve asked T to redo Anon Anon’s work & research in order to either confirm or refute what Anon Anon told you last time. Does anybody have anything else to add (pile on)?”

    I’m open to other ways of looking at this – especially how it could be “a great leadership opportunity.” Thoughts?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Well, in my experience, bosses don’t call things “leadership opportunities” if they really mean “your work sucks and you wasted our money because now we have to redo it.” I’m not entirely sure I follow, but it kind of sounds like they’re asking T to do some in-depth, maybe below your paygrade follow-up on the work you started. That doesn’t seem like a big deal? Can you ask for clarification on what they mean by “leadership” – ie. what is your role in relation to T?

      1. Anon Anon for this*

        T is in a similar role to me at another organization. (I’m trying to think of an analogy in order to not be too specific. Imagine if several organizations in the teapot industry were part of the Teapot Guild. T’s organization could be considered the hub of the guild. It’s not her job to do this for us, but it’s also not unreasonable for our organization to ask her to.)

        They’ve said this isn’t a reflection of my work. They’ve asked T to investigate how her organization deals with one aspect of this topic, which I agree would be useful for us to know. What I find unusual, though, is that they’ve also asked her to redo my work – specifically giving her the names of the people I had contacted at other organizations so she can confirm what they told me, and asking her to present this topic at the next meeting (both of which are clearly just redoing my work).

        I’d recently applied for a promotion which I didn’t get. While disappointing, I think I’ve handled it well and professionally. When I’d asked for feedback following the rejection, I’d expressed interest in leadership opportunities so I’d be better placed for future growth. I think that’s why they’re using this term. But I was imagining “leadership opportunities” as training or taking on new tasks. Not having someone redo my work and publicly share that with the whole region.

        1. MegaMoose, Esq*

          Yeah, that whole anonymous thing is tricky. I guess I could see how this might reflect poorly on your and how it might not. Maybe they’re just not being very efficient in the way they go about getting more data, or think a second set of eyes would be useful? I’m still wondering what they’re expecting you to do that involved “leadership” here. It sounds like you maybe think they’re placating you for not getting the promotion?

  55. Will a title change help*

    I’m debating about going to my boss to ask for a title change, primarily because I think it will force my colleagues to treat me with more respect. I was hired as an office manager for a small organization but my roll has expanded in a short amount of time to include graphic design, communications, payroll oversight, human resources and much more. Despite these advanced and time consuming responsibilities I am still being asked to complete tasks that range from arranging/shopping/cooking for our whole team while we are on retreat, to cleaning up our office etc. While I have attempted to set boundaries with the worst offenders, I am at a loss and don’t feel respected by my colleagues, am burning out, am underpaid, and think that they are using me as both an administrative assistant and an operations manager. Since previous attempts to offset those duties has failed, I think that a title change that puts me outside of the realm of the “admin” field might help people finally realize my position in the organization. Anyone going through something similar, or have any advice?

    1. Manders*

      At this point, I think a title change is just going to be a band-aid over the fact that you’re underpaid and burning out. How long have you been at this organization? Is moving on to a new one a possibility?

      1. Will a title change help*

        I’ve been with this organization for 1.5 years, but part of me feels like I should feel lucky to be in this job since ones that even pay this amount are hard to find in the area.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I agree with Manders that this is a band-aid. Those worst offenders won’t care what your title is, they’ll just know you as “the person who has always done these things.”

      I think the title change would need to come with an announcement of what your job duties entail, and what your job duties no longer entail, as well as a person to point the “worst offenders” to (or even an announcement that individuals will now be responsible for their own cooking/shopping/cleaning), along with the support of your boss for you to push back and firmly shut down these requests.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Ditto. We had a manager promoted all the way to Senior VP and she was always treated the same. She wasn’t really a great manager to start with, but she repeatedly demanded promotions to gain the respect of her colleges. No one ever saw her differently.

        1. Will a title change help*

          I could see this 100% happening at my company. Thanks for the advice everyone, I think your responses are making me realize that as the office doormat I might just need to accept the fact that this job might never truly make me happy and that it might be in my best interest to start looking elsewhere.

    3. CAA*

      A title change will only help if there’s another person who is supposed to take over the office manager responsibilities of arranging for food, hiring cleaners, etc. If there is, then you just tell people that X handles that now, so please go work with him on it.

      If the solution is that there is no longer an office manager who will be doing these typical office management tasks, then your boss needs to needs to make a formal announcement to the rest of the staff so they are aware of the change. In this case, a title change will help, but only after someone else actually tells people how to get their office management needs met (i.e. they are now required to do it themselves.)

  56. Alton*

    Maybe I’m over-thinking this, but does anyone have advice for how to broach questions about being on or off the clock for workday functions? I’m the only person in my department who is non-exempt and who has a somewhat rigid schedule, and our policy is that non-exempt employees need to submit timesheets and account for 40 hours (either working or a combination of work and PTO). For me, that generally works out to getting an hour break. My manager occasionally hosts informal team things during work hours, like farewell lunches for people who are retiring and employee retreats, and encourages me to attend.

    I’m happy to be included, but I get nervous because I don’t always know how my boss wants me to report this time. My boss seems to pretty much trust me on reporting my time, and I haven’t gotten the sense that timekeeping is something that he devotes much attention to. Thus far, I’ve only been invited to join in on things that lasted an hour or less or that took place outside of business hours, so it wasn’t really an issue. But with something longer, I would need guidance on how to manage that time. I’m not sure how to broach that. I don’t want to sound like I’m complaining, and I tend to get overly anxious about details that aren’t a huge deal.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I have generally taken the approach that shorter social events during business hours at the place of business (ie. birthday cake in the break room!) are on the clock, while longer *optional* social events away from the place of business are off the clock (ie. happy hour or welcome lunches), but really, I’d just figure out a couple of examples that would cover most of the questionable events and ask your boss how he’d like you to handle them. You’re not complaining so don’t think about it that way – you’re just asking for clarification. I totally hear you on bosses who don’t think about it much, though – when I worked for the state my supervisors DNGAF so long as the work got done, and then HR would give us these fear-of-god speeches about the need to be accurate with our hours. It was a pain.

    2. Princess Carolyn*

      If you’re at work and you’re not free to walk out the door, you should be getting paid. That includes office social events, working lunches, any kind of work, really. That’s not really about your company’s policies; it’s how the law works for non-exempt employees. You’re paid for your time.

    3. Periwinkle*

      When I was in non-exempt positions, anything that was during the work day was generally on the clock. If it was an optional event after-hours, off the clock. If you’re not sure, just ask your boss like MegaMoose, Esq said. Farewell lunches (if optional) are probably off the clock, employee retreats are probably on the clock.

    4. Caroline*

      I think usually things like work events, even if they are pleasurable and have cake involved, are considered time worked.

    5. Sibley*

      You’re really overthinking this. Ask! “Hey boss, how should I handle my time entry for x event?”

      1. Alton*

        I’m definitely prone to over-thinking stuff like this!

        I appreciate everyone’s input. I think what throws me off is that some of these events aren’t mandatory by any means but are formally organized enough that I feel it’s most appropriate for me to try to attend unless there’s a major conflict.

        1. Naruto*

          That is work time. They need to pay you. And you’re right, you should attend unless you can’t for some reason.

    6. The Rat-Catcher*

      I definitely understand feeling like you are nickel-and-diming when you are the only non-exempt employee! I’m in a similar position in my role and had to ask this type of question a lot at first. I might phrase it like “Am I supposed to enter time for this/count this as work hours/whatever phrasing is used at your company?” The word “supposed,” I think, indicates that you want to know the correct way to handle this, not that you are eager to count everything as time worked.

      1. Gadfly*

        And at the same time–hold on to that nickle and diming awareness or it quickly becomes dollars in the wrong hands. Exempt people tend to forget that they might be able to do X,Y &Z by staying late but other people can’t without being cleared for overtime.

  57. Tiffany*

    I day-job at a nonprofit but spend every pretty much all my time outside of that being heavily involved in the local music scene as a talent buyer/promoter/festival director/band manager/etc. I’m in the process of forming my own non-profit that will focus on all of that – working on a macro level with the city and various organizations/businesses to support and grow the scene, but also working on a micro level with local bands and musicians to help with things like marketing and networking.

    I’m also a 20-something female that would like to have some sort of social life on occasion. Because of the nature of how I spend my time, I pretty much only hang out with musicians. All of which I am already working with in some capacity, or certainly have the potential to do so, as my organization (which I’ll be board president for until funding for an Executive Director position is a thing).

    My question is – when does that become a conflict of interest? If I’m dating a musician, is it too much for my org to work with them? Am I over-thinking it? My background is in nonprofit, it’s what I went to school for, it’s what I do for a living, and most of what I know I learned from working with a incredibly functionable org…so maybe I’m just being a little more strict on it than I really need to be? The dating alternatives are slim…I literally spend all my free time at shows, mostly in my town, and would like to continue to do so. It’s hard to find guys that are also want to do that that aren’t musicians.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      My personal sense is that it’s best to avoid working with/for people you date or people whose friendship it would really hurt you to lose. It sounds like there’s a lot of wiggle-room for you, but if they’re giving you money, or you’re giving them money, that’s probably a business relationship and you should leave it that way. If you’re just in the same field and have more tangential business contacts, then it’s probably not a big deal.

    2. Insert Nickname Here*

      I volunteer hardcore for a very similar nonprofit that works with a LOT of musicians. In that type of nonprofit there’s going to be a lot of crossover and personal/professional boundaries are going to be blurred, that’s just how it is. It can get sort of dysfunctional but nothing completely awful has ever happened to us in the decade+ we’ve been around.

      If you’re dating someone it would be a little bit more difficult to be objective about it, but no, you should be dating whoever you want to date. I think the org could work with the band of someone you’re involved with as long as you are fair and keep that part of the relationship professional, especially if you’re just offering marketing and networking like you mentioned above.

      However, MegaMoose has a point. If one aspect of relationship goes awry, the other aspect is going to be affected. If professionally, you have to ‘cut off’ your musician SO, they may get mad personally, and vice versa. We just lost a staff member of our NP who has a LOT of industry connections and I wonder if it’s going to affect us going forward this year, because the member is close friends with a lot of bands; it’s already caused an outrage with a few.

      Long story short, just be careful not to burn your bridges and you should be fine!

  58. Caroline*

    I’m in a bit of a situation and I wonder if anyone has thoughts on this. My manager has started routinely asking my team (there are five of us) to critique him, as a manager. As in, we are required once a month to come up with one thing he has done well and one thing he can do better. These have to be SPECIFIC things.

    The first time, he became defensive over my “thing you could do better.” I didn’t think it was that controversial or personal, just something I felt he could support me better on. But the defense mechanisms came out in full force and made the whole experience really uncomfortable.

    Now, my teammates and I really struggle each month to come up with answers to these questions. We are each sat down one-on-one to discuss these items. We stress over this in the week leading up to this event, and it really distracts us from our actual work because we spend so much time trying to come up with the exact right things to say. It’s draining.

    Anyone have any advice on how to handle this? We all really want to say “the thing you could do better is not make us engage in this exercise,” but we don’t think that would be taken very well. I think our boss means well and thinks this will make him a better manager, but really, this is the worst part of his management at this point! The rest of our jobs are fairly smooth.

    1. Gene*

      “The biggest thing you could do better is to not get defensive when we tell you something that we think you could do better.”

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I really think you could say that! You could word it as, “Honestly, I think things are going really smoothly, and if I were going to change one thing, it would actually be this exercise! I think it’s great that you want feedback but I struggle to come up with things for it, and I’ve felt like you’ve been a little defensive about the input I gave as part of this exercise in the past. It seems like we’re digging for problems, but really things are going smoothly and this is probably my biggest source of stress. Would you be open to skipping it?”

    3. SophieChotek*

      Do you know if he was defense about every suggestion? If he’s defense about every suggestion…including yours (sorry you had to go through that), then really there is no point to this exercise. Boss probably read it in some manager-improvement blog or heard it in some leadership seminar…but has no idea how to implement it or take criticism/suggestions!

      1. Caroline*

        I know for a fact that he heard it at a “leadership seminar.” I am not sure about the extent of defensiveness to every suggestion, but I do know that it is universally dreaded among my coworkers.

        I like Alison’s suggesting of the wording “Digging for problems.” That is exactly what this feels like.

        Thanks!

    4. Bruce H.*

      I recommend total, shameless, butt licking, North Korean style sycophancy, if you can do it with a straight face. Tell him he’s the best manager you’ve ever had or ever hope to have. Tell him you collect all his wisdom into a little red notebook and refer to it whenever you have a problem you don’t know how to solve. Tell him your productivity has increased 67% and your job satisfaction 119% since you started working for him. Even your sex life is better because you strive to emulate his personality in your social life.

    5. Working Rachel*

      This is something I would love to do as a manager, but it COMPLETELY fails if he gets defensive. So, yeah, say that. He shot himself in the foot on a good idea by getting defensive the first time you guys tried it.

    6. nonegiven*

      Definitely ‘he became defensive over my “thing you could do better.” ‘ would go #1 on my list of things he could do better on. Every time until it stops.

  59. the.kat*

    We are interviewing someone this morning and she sounds brilliant. I think that’s great. I’d love to not have to be the only one on the team who is good at computers and technology, but in my weasely little heart, I’m fond of being the brilliant one. I haven’t even met this woman and I’m feeling threatened. Any tips for how I can manage this little jealous beast I’m feeling? Also, has anyone else been in this position? How did it work out?

    1. Rincat*

      Oh yeah, I’ve been there. It helps to remind myself that she’s an individual, I don’t know her whole story (maybe she’s good with computers but bad at other things?), and it’s not a contest – we’re all working towards a mutual goal. Be sure to ask some good, probing questions and make sure that brilliance is real. If you do end up hiring her, see what you can learn from her, and vice versa. She may end up being a great coworker!

    2. S-Mart*

      I handle it by reminding myself I can learn the most from the other brilliant ones, and then when I eventually move on to other areas I will be even more brilliant for having met this ‘competitor’.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      I was you about nine months ago when we hired my teammate. She was VERY impressive in the interview. As I’d just been figuring out how to do the job well, I worried that she’d seamlessly slide in and be the “favorite” on my team.

      Well… she’s turned out to be good at most aspects of our work, but terrible at others. Her personality, which I seem to have overlooked in the interview, is terrible.

      Sometimes these things work out! But regardless, you have zero control over what happens. Just be gracious and professional.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      And she hasn’t even met you and she’s concerned. “Will kat share the workload with me? Will she play a straight game or is this going to be difficult? What if I mess something up, will kat feel like I messed up “her” stuff?”

      It’s a two way street, man, this stuff goes both ways.

      You will always be the one who has been there longer.
      This means not only have you seen more but also your cohorts know you. You are anchored in and she is new.
      It’s fine to feel a bit jealous, the problem comes in when we act on it. Aim to be professional at all times. If this is your habit then IF a problem comes up you will find it easier to move to the high road quickly. The high road will serve you well.

      Just in general, I think new employees can give everyone a bit of a wake up call. The newbie comes in, eager to learn, wants to do things right and so on. In your case, the newbie is reminding you about a part of your job you liked, being the go-to, and you now have to let go of this part. This would be a good time to start to think about how you would like to grow some more yourself. Use that jealous pang to remind yourself not to get complacent and keep reaching and growing yourself professionally.

  60. Dawn*

    Happy Friday news: I sent off a signed offer letter this morning for a FANTASTIC job at a FANTASTIC company with a FANTASTIC starting salary! I finally get to leave this weird family-esque dysfunctional workplace! Now to just sit and wait for the background check to come back so I can turn in my resignation :)

    Here’s spreading the good job juju around to everyone else, because my dream finally came true!!!

    9. Frustrated Optimist*

      Sorry I didn’t see this earlier — but is this the job interview you posted about in the March 17 open thread? I’ve been thinking about you and looking forward to the update! Congratulations on the offer and may all of us job-seekers bask vicariously a little in your glory!

  61. Anon for this*

    The greatest thing ever happened yesterday. Several members of my team received a confidential 360 evaluation for our pretty terrible boss. We’ve had a lot of issues with him in many areas, but until now, we have had no recourse. We’re not quite sure if the 360 review is new for all employees at his level (none of us has ever been asked to do one), or if there’s a specific issue that has come up where they’re asking for feedback specifically on him due to concerns about his performance. Either way, we will be professional but TOTALLY honest. So excited!

    1. Anon for this*

      I should mention that it’s annual review time, so this is probably just a new procedure, but we are thrilled for the opportunity nonetheless.

  62. SarahKay*

    I’m in the UK, and I have a direct manager, ‘Arthur’, who is offsite, and is an American, although currently living in Europe. I also have a ‘matrix’ manager, ‘Merlin’, who is the site leader for my site. I was in a meeting recently with both managers and during the conversation Arthur told Merlin to stop “whinging”. In the UK this is a really non-professional thing to do – you would typically accuse a small child of whinging. Even if you might describe a colleague as a whinger, it would be as part of gossip, not in a formal meeting. Merlin is, as a result, very cross indeed at Arthur saying this to him. I was then in a later meeting with Arthur and a couple of others of his team and he made some joke to me about Merlin whinging, which I just let drop without commenting. I’m feeling very stuck in the middle here.

    So, my question is – is “to whinge / whinging / a whinger” a term that gets used in the US? I’m wondering if it’s a UK-specific term that Arthur has heard used, but not quite picked up on the context. If this was so, and I can tell Merlin that, that would definitely help smooth things over. (Incidentally, if it’s not a US word, then whinger is pronounced to rhyme with ginger.)

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      This is not an American word, though my understanding is that it’s akin to “whining,” which is also something you would accuse a small child of doing.

    2. SanguineAspect*

      It is definitely a UK-ism that is not used commonly in the US. He’s probably picked it up from context in interacting with folks from the UK, from UK TV/Film, or UK books (which is how I’m familiar with it, personally).

      Having understood the meaning of the word any of those contexts, it’s possible he may not realize the faux pas of using the term in a work environment. However, the US equivalentof “whinge” is “whine” and you wouldn’t want to accuse someone of “whining” in a work environment either, as that isn’t really a professional way to talk about a coworker’s complaint.

      I guess I’d figure out if Arthur is a jerk in general (and then maybe assume he meant to be a dick). If he’s not normally a jerk, it could be an honest mistake or something he meant as gentle ribbing, but not as an insult.

    3. FN2187*

      American here! we would use the word “whine”, which would rhyme with “wine.” It’s quite unprofessional, in my opinion, to tell a colleague to quit whining in the middle of a meeting. It is needlessly abrasive and confrontational.

    4. cercis*

      Ooh, thanks for the pronunciation, I’d always wondered how it was pronounced. I’m in the US and I’ve never heard whinging used, only seen it online and in books set in the UK, so I’d say it’s something he’s picked up without fully picking up the context. However, I think the US words “whine” “whining” “whiner” are pretty much the same and none of those are professional either. So, it could just be that he’s an ass and was intending to be condescending.

    5. Elizabeth West*

      I use it, but I’m a Harry Potter nerd and an Anglophile. And I find it hilarious that J.K. Rowling called the town in Surrey where the Dursleys lived Little Whinging. :)

      But yeah, I’m with everybody else. It’s not okay to speak down to a colleague that way.

    6. kb*

      It’s not really an American phrase, so I’m guessing you’re right that Arthur just picked it up recently and didn’t realize it’s actually condescending.
      It could also be that Arthur misjudged his relationship with Merlin and was trying to be playful? It’s still not a professional thing to say. Accusing someone of whining wouldn’t go over well in the US unless you had a very specific sort of rapport and it was said in jest (probably about something trivial).

    7. LKW*

      Whinge is not a common word at all. However, American style is significantly more laid back than UK. I once had the audacity to bring up issues to a UK manager in front of more junior team members (who were also expressing the same concerns) and he was so aghast at my approach that he tried to ruin my career. I wish I were exaggerating. Guy never even mentioned the issue – just tried to give me a terrible review which I refused and made the case that he was an ass and that I should no longer report to him which the higher ups accepted.

    8. PB*

      I’m going to disagree with the other Americans. I’m a native American, and I will use the word “whinge” from time to time, although not commonly. However, I don’t think it has as strong a connotation here as it does in the UK.

      If Arthur uses the word the way I do, then it might not strike him as particularly awful. If it were me, I would appreciate the correction.

    9. SarahKay*

      Thanks, everyone, for the confirmation that it’s not a word commonly used in the US. Hopefully this bit of information can calm things down – although he’s not been my manager for very long I’ve mostly heard good things about Arthur so given what you’ve all said I suspect it’s a genuine misunderstanding of appropriate context for using whinge, rather than him being an ass.

    10. Gadfly*

      Not common, but not unheard of. My understanding is that we often use whining for a much broader range of things (from complaining to snot-nosed tantrums) and that whinging is similar really for the only the upper end of that?

      1. SarahKay*

        Gadfly, personally I would say that whinging and whining are pretty much entirely interchangeable. Certainly I would use either in pretty much any of the situations you’ve described. But, of course, English (UK or US version) is a changeable beast, and I’m sure there are other native UK speakers that would disagree….

    11. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      I have to say that your Arthur/Merlin comparison names and the situation are hewing juuussssttt a bit too close to a work situation I was just in. Down to the first name of the former/citizenship/situation. Wouldn’t that be funny if it were the same two people because I could totally see this happening! (its not one of the largest employers in the UK is it?)

      American in the UK here – whinging is not a US term, and “my Arthur” was the kind to pick up British terms and then use them right away (surprisingly this guy had never heard of the term “fag” for cigarette before either. God that was a day… and then he started using it left right and center because “my Merlin” always “popped out for a fag” before coming back to complain about everything under the sun).

      Folks who do that don’t have context, especially the subtleties of this word in the work place. I would speak with both and explain the context to Merlin and tell Arthur when it is appropriate to use the word.

      1. SarahKay*

        Hi Sprechen Sie Talk?, I don’t *think* it’s the same two people… I renamed both of them, and picked Arthur and Merlin because I’d just been watching an old episode of the BBC ‘Merlin’ TV series. I guess it’s just one of those things that are likely to happen with UK English and US English :)

    1. Incognito*

      Finding out why they are on BEC mode is probably the first step. That will drive the possible plans of action, but my general coping mechanism is laying low and staying focused on my work, engaging only when necessary.

      1. Arduino*

        Due to our boss not clearly setting or defining roles. He has since changed course and admitted poor start bit there was a lot of cw expecting me to work on domething, me expecting them to work on it, poor communication and toe stepping all around.

    2. Grits McGee*

      Limit person-to-person contact as much as possible in favor of email and keep interactions short, to-the-point and cordial (but not friendly).* Do not directly engage on BEC behavior unless you absolutely have to (ie, you cannot do your work) and do not bring feelings into it.

      *Caveat- all of my BEC feelings have been directed toward coworkers that have wanted much more involved relationships with me than I have with them. Your mileage may vary.

    3. Sugar of lead*

      Do you mean bitch-eating-crackers?

      Probably just stay away from them as much as possible until it wears off. Familiarity breeds contempt; make them less familiar with you. You could try addressing it head-on, but if they get annoyed at you for eating crackers, it might just make things worse.

      1. SophieChotek*

        glad you interpreted…I was trying to figure out how battery-eliminiator-circuit fit in this discussion…

    4. kb*

      Make any sort of correction you can if there was a trigger for the BEC. Then kill with kindness. Be so nice and wonderful (without crossing the line into too much) that their disdain for you comes across as completely irrational. They may realize they’re being irrational and shape up, but even if they don’t you’ll win in the court of public opinion.

  64. AnonAnonAnon*

    Peeve Rant
    Etiquette: If you call someone on speakerphone, please tell them who is with you in the room on speakerphone.
    Sheesh.
    Rude!

    1. SeptemberGrrl*

      did you say something untoward about someone who was listening in? I ask because I was on a conference call once, there were about 10 people in a conference room in one location and then several (including me) calling in individually. As we were waiting for everyone to get on, the people in the conference room were talking among themselves and one of them said something nasty about me. One of the other people in the conference room said “uh…….I think Susie is on the call…Susie are on on?”. Me: “Yes”. SO AWKWARD.

      1. AnonAnonAnon*

        Fortunately, no, but I hate the ‘art of surprise’ that someone unknown is listening. It has happened before with a friend. We work in similar roles so she called me on speaker to ask a professional question. She had just gotten a new job so I was all congratulating her, then she said her boss is on the call with her. HELLO, say it FIRST! Dang!

        1. Not Karen*

          Yeah, I find it kind of creepy… We’ve had a couple meetings lately that went like this:

          A: We’d like an update on Project X, but no one on it is on the line.
          B: I’m on the line.
          A: Oh. Have you been on the whole time?
          B: Yes.

          …But B never announced that he had called in.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Not your awkwardness to wear though, I hope you thought about that in the moment. We have to try not to carry people’s emotions for them. I am sorry that happened to you. I hope they learned their lesson.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Oh God speakerphone etiquette.

      As a receptionist for many years, I would say PLEASE DO NOT CALL PEOPLE ON SPEAKERPHONE. Wait until your call is connected and then ask them if you can put them on speaker. If you’re dialing into a conference, assume you’ll be on speaker but god, please wait until you’re patched in. And say something when you do get on. “Hi, it’s Bob; I’m here!” WebEx software will announce you, but not everybody has that.

      It’s really hard to hear people sometimes when they’re on speaker. And when I would ask them to repeat what they said, they would then pick up the handset and it would go *CLUNK* really loudly in my ear. >_<

      And yes, by all means tell them who is in the room! And close your office door if you're having a loud speaker conversation with someone!

  65. MBA Candidate - Go Cougs!*

    On Wednesday April 5th there was a LW who became quickly bored with jobs. The LW worked in finance after completing an MBA but hated the culture and claimed it “was great for aggressive white males but not so good for others.” I’m finishing up my MBA at Carson College of Business and I’m planning on going into finance after I graduate and hoping to have great success in that industry. I’m not white or male, but I am ambitious. My question is; what advantages do white males have in the finance industry that the rest of us don’t?

    1. Manders*

      I’ve never worked in finance personally, but the sexism is pretty well documented: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/10/opinion/sunday/how-wall-street-bro-talk-keeps-women-down.html?_r=0

      From what I’ve heard, the problem with office cultures like this is that you’ll be held back in ways that are subtle and often subconscious on the part of the person who’s discriminating against you. I’m not saying you can’t succeed, but you’re very likely to be facing challenges that your white male colleagues don’t understand or don’t even realize they’re causing.

    2. medium of ballpoint*

      For one, pipelines. There are some elite schools that are direct pipelines to the major firms, and connections like fraternities can help people land interviews and positions. For two, culture. There seems to be a fair bit of bonding/networking that occurs in spaces where women wouldn’t feel welcome or comfortable. For three, comfort with affluence. There also seems to be a lot of status marking that people who aren’t very affluent may not be familiar with.

      Caveat: I’ve worked with a fair number of people new to the industry, so I can’t speak to what it may look like further up the ladder.

      1. MBA Candidate - Go Cougs!*

        Thanks for the response. Nothing I can do about the elite school pipeline at this point. But I’ve had many great networking opportunities. As far as affluence, I’m middle class but I have some very wealthy friends and we seem to get along fine.

        What do you mean by spaces where I wouldn’t feel comfortable? The only places I can think of would be a strip club or a men’s restroom? I can’t image any professional meetings being held in those places, but I could be wrong.

        1. Zahra*

          Meetings have been held in strip clubs. Although it’s now more of a “Let’s go to the strip club after work” and then socialization happens and gets you a foot in the door for promotions and raises.

          Also, team activities that are more male-coded: paintball, karting, etc. Not to say that women don’t practice these activities and that all men like them, but they’re definitely more popular among men.

          2. MBA Candidate - Go Cougs!*

            Thanks for the responses. I guess if you look hard enough for sexism, you’ll find it. Let’s hope my future work place doesn’t have these issues and my career is more inline with AliceW’s 20 year career instead of what’s in the headlines. Let’s face it, most news articles are going to focus on the extremes in our society instead of the norms or they wouldn’t be news. Obviously, sexism and racism still exist, so I’ll keep an eye out for it, but for the most part I think I’ll focus on being the best I can in any future position and hope I get recognized for the quality of my work.

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              Ooof, I have to jump in here. This isn’t “if you look hard enough for sexism, you’ll find it” — and characterizing it that way is awfully dismissive, given how very well documented this has been in this industry. You don’t have to look hard to find it there at all. That’s the point.

              1. MBA Candidate - Go Cougs!*

                Oh boy, as a long time reader, I know that “tone” and I apologize for my dismissive attitude. That wasn’t my intention. Maybe it’s the data analytics course I recently completed (advanced managerial statistics), but there was a section about how people have a tendency to refer to articles/studies/research that support their forgone conclusions instead of remaining objective about a given topic. The majority of women in finance to whom I’ve reached out, have said they haven’t experienced blatant or easy to observe sexism in their work places, although a few women have relayed some awful stories. Based on my own research, I’m simply not convinced that this is as large-scale a problem as many people make it out to be, despite it being well documented. Plane crashes are also well documented and I’m sure I could find hundreds of articles to support the conclusion that planes are unsafe and the whole airline industry is corrupt, but I don’t know how useful that would be. In closing, I’d like to say that I very much appreciate your response Alison, even if we don’t exactly see eye to eye.

                1. Zahra*

                  I agree that blatant or easy to observe sexism has gone way down in the last decades. However, sometimes, it’s a matter of analyzing trends. Such as the words used in evaluations for women vs men. Or the fact that some types of people climb the ladder more easily than others, the types not being inherently more qualified than other types of the same nature.

                  Some companies have actually used their own data analysts to check their compensation. And they discovered that, although they thought they were being unbiased, the data told another story

                  Salesforce is the company that comes to mind: http://fortune.com/2015/11/07/salesforce-3-million-close-pay-gap/

                  My links come from the “Women in STEM” perspective, so there’s nothing about the finance industry, but I’m sure that the analysis Salesforce did would be useful to any company with a lot of employees.

    3. AliceW*

      I have worked in finance for 20 years and I personally have never experienced any widespread “white male aggression”. I’m sure it exists in some shops, maybe more likely in investment banking or at some brokerage firms. I am not white or male. Because there are so few minorities and women I have personally found that there are lots of opportunities. I was always able to easily find jobs and/or was recruited for jobs and have had no trouble moving “up the ladder”. And while I don’t love the work, it’s okay and a career in finance pays very well. White males from ivy league schools do tend to excel in finance but I don’t think white males in general have any more advantages than anyone else. It probably just helps them networking-wise because they may tend to have the same interests as other white males in higher level positions. Finance has been very good to me so I wouldn’t go into anything thinking you are somehow at a disadvantage. Good luck!

      1. Zahra*

        “It probably just helps them networking-wise because they may tend to have the same interests as other white males in higher level positions.”

        … That’s the definition of advantage and one of the ways systemic sexism (including pay gap and glass ceiling) continues to exist.

  66. Spoonie*

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to ask my manager for permission to work from home for a short period of time? My parental is having surgery, so I’d like to be able to stay but not kill all of my (tiny) pool of accrued PTO. I am the only member of my team not remote, so it’s absolutely not unheard of, but I’ve only been in my position for 6 months. However, my manager is extremely reasonable and personable. I do have a solid track record, I’m just…nervous.

    I was thinking I’d broach it from a “I don’t expect an answer this instant, but this is my reason and…” I also don’t know whether to ask via email or face to face. Thoughts?

    1. animaniactoo*

      I would ask face to face, and I’d say something along the lines of “Hi, this is a two-part thing. First, I wanted to let you know that my parent has an upcoming surgery and I need to be available to help them for a short period afterwards, so I’ll need to take some PTO for that. Secondly, I wanted to ask if you would consider letting me do WFH for a short period of time so that I can continue to work as much as I can. I’d really like to be able to do that if you think we could make it work. Can I check in with you in a couple of days and go over details and see if we can find a way to make that work?”

      So you’re being clear that one way or the other you’re going to be out of the office, which you did need to let them know about anyway, and you’re placing the request there for consideration with a request to follow up about it in a few days and taking any pressure for an immediate definitive response off the table.

    2. Violette*

      I’m not sure if this is the case, but if you’ll be caring for your parent at all, it might be good to explain up front that it won’t interfere with your work. I could imagine a boss wondering whether you’ll be able to do the same amount of work with the same focus if you’re juggling caretaking responsibilities during the day. But it seems like a reasonable request, especially since others already work remotely. Good luck!

      1. Rookie Biz Chick*

        This, especially if you’ve not worked from home before or for any length of time, consider how you’ll get access to the files you need (if you need them, or maybe this is a great time to finally review that huge paper report), and the hours you’ll be available by email and phone. For example, if you feel the need to be more forthcoming about expectations, say something like, “Mom has a routine outpatient thing on Tuesday, so Wednesday and Thursday she’ll be mostly snoozing during the day and I’ll plan on finishing the teapot spout trajectory analysis by Friday. I can get with IT to make sure VPN works fine before I go.”

    3. Rocky*

      All of the above, plus – I had to do this for a short time recently, and phrased it as, “I don’t need to take care of them all day, I just need to be close by if something goes wrong.” That made it clear that I was actually going to be able to get work done and wasn’t just trying to save my PTO.

    4. Spoonie*

      Thanks for all of your suggestions! I’ll definitely be combining everything into a super script for when we meet tomorrow. Said parent reacts really well to pain meds/anesthesia, so sleep is going to be the main thing happening. Just shuffling from recliner/couch/bed. I just want to ensure that while driving is not allowed that I can handle the prescription, grocery store, dog care aspects of life. It’s definitely more for my peace of mind. And working remotely is so I don’t reorganize the pantry and bookshelves and in general go crazy…

  67. Jess*

    I’d love to see an update from the guy about a month ago who had to quit suddenly because his number came up on the random drug test at work. I’ve really been hoping that he landed on his feet somehow!

    1. MissMaple*

      Yes, me too. I occasionally search for his username because I really hope things turned out okay!

  68. YRH*

    Applied for a job at a company. My cousin works there (in a different department) and a person I know through networking works there (in the same department as the opening). I email my cousin that I applied and draft an email to the other person but don’t send it (I wanted to think about the wording more). My cousin emails me back and offers to pass on my resume to the hiring manager. I take her up on this and after she’s done it tells me that the other person is the hiring manager (she didn’t know we knew each other). I look at other person’s LinkedIn profile and realize he’s been promoted, hence being the hiring manager. It now feels inappropriate to email him but awkward not to. Any thoughts?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I don’t think it’s inappropriate. I might amend the wording to acknowledge that this person is the hiring manager, but I would still send it.

  69. Murphy*

    My desk (open office area) is very near the reception area for our office. Whenever our administrative assistant isn’t at the reception desk (helping someone, at lunch, at a meeting, out of the office) people just come in and ask me questions. I am not an administrative assistant and while I know the people in our office by face I don’t a) know all their names, b) know where they sit, or c) know their schedule. I don’t mind signing for packages, directing people to conference rooms, or answering questions where I can, but probably more than half of the time I cannot help them. (There was one guy the other day who got very pushy with me for not knowing where Bob was, when I don’t even work with Bob. “Where is he? When will he back? Don’t you have access to his calendar?” NO. I DO NOT.)

    I’m not sure if this is something I should bring up, or even who I should bring it up to.

    1. animaniactoo*

      What I would bring up is that the lack of cover for the admin desk when the admin is unavailable is creating constant disruption to your work and that most of the time you can’t actually help the people who are coming to you for help when it’s not staffed.

      In the meantime, I would be more specific to the people coming to you with questions “I’m sorry, I don’t have anything to do with admin/reception. Please leave a note on the admin desk and they’ll get back to you as soon as possible about this.”

      1. Murphy*

        It’s usually more immediate needs like someone here to see Wakeen, and I don’t know Wakeen. Or yesterday someone was here watering/trimming the plants, told me that the listed contact was Jane Warbleworth, was that correct, and was this her phone number. I had no idea. And I couldn’t even tell her where Jane’s desk was, since she recently changed departments.

        1. animaniactoo*

          Okay, then I would definitely press the point that there is nobody available to fulfill the immediate needs, and that’s a business problem not even just a you problem.

          Raise it with your boss and ask them who to talk to about it.

    2. Lillian Styx*

      “You know, I’m not sure about that, but if you’d like to wait over there the receptionist should be back at her desk shortly.”

        1. Lillian Styx*

          Yeah, then you need to raise it with someone in charge. That’s pretty annoying, sorry you have to deal with it!

    3. Delyssia*

      This kind of thing is why my office has 100% coverage for the front desk from 8-5. The receptionist has set break times (15 minutes morning and afternoon and an hour at lunch), and the other admin staff are on rotation (by week) to cover the front desk during those breaks.

    4. Student*

      Figure out who the receptionist’s manager is. This should be a simple non-confrontational conversation, “Hi Receptionist, I need a point of contact to direct people to when you’re out of office. They keep coming up to my desk because I am nearby, and I’m a poor substitute for your customer service. I don’t know how you keep up with all that information; I can’t answer a thing they ask! Could I get your manager’s name and number so I can point them at her when you’re unavailable?”

      Then, direct all of these to the receptionist’s manager (or whatever POC she gives you), every single time they happen, even if they are things you don’t mind like signing for packages. You could very reasonably ask that they put up a sign in reception with some contact info “Out of office: please contact 555-5555 for reception support”. Then the receptionist’s manager can decide what kind of business impact it has and whether an additional receptionist is needed.

      1. Rache*

        Agree with all of this. Those signs are fantastic – and you have something to direct people back to when they bypass that and try and ask you.

  70. Incognito*

    I wish I had something positive to report from last week. I was a good worker bee and honored the request for more process improvement suggestions. I spent a lot of time on it, time that could have been spent doing my own job. Time I feel like I wasted, because the reality is the manager on the other team calls the shots, and that just is what it is. The best I could hope for is our mutual manager having my back in regards to providing adequate support and effectively managing priorities across the entire department.

    My take away from the conversation was that this is just not going to happen, and in reality process improvements are not even a priority. People are “too busy” to attend to even the most basic of basic infrastructure maintenance to enable good teapot quality compliance or just plain keep operations running smoothly. So instead of making things like documentation of procedures, let’s just keep reinventing the wheel each and every time. Let’s ignore basic operational necessities and changes we know are coming down the pipe until it becomes a crisis and we have to drop everything to attend to it in a half-arsed way.

    So here’s my dilemma now. I’m asking myself is anything about my job worth:
    chronically functioning in crisis mode?
    having the expertise and experience of multiple people dismissed or willfully ignored leading to poor teapot design and quality outcomes?
    not being able to truly do my job which is delivering high quality usable teapot parts to our other stakeholders? (This really bothers me on a personal level. It is soul killing. Maybe it shouldn’t be?)
    the stress of general office drama

    I work in a heavily regulated sector of the chocolate teapot industry, accountable to US and international teapot authorities. We are also, informally accountable to the chocolate teapot community at large, since the parts we design and the information we publish about chocolate teapot design drives decision making in a many chocolate teapot businesses.

    I do love the work itself, and the people I work with. The benefits are good. The commute is good, and remote work is very flexible. Love my other co-workers. Change is hard. I worry about what will happen to the quality and usability of the teapot parts if I leave, because they are very specialized parts that are important to the people who need them.

    I am putting feelers out for other opportunities, and even applied to a couple jobs after that meeting. I am out of ideas on how to salvage this. I don’t feel so strongly about it to be comfortable engaging the Grandboss or other people I work with who have more weight to toss around, and I think if I did that it would just make my boss and the other team’s manager super resentful.

    I feel like I should maybe be open with my boss about not planning on sticking around and why that is so I’m not dropping a bomb on everyone else when some other company makes me an offer I can’t refuse. On the other hand, I also feel like the only reason for doing that is to hang on to some hope management will come to Jesus before that happens, and that will likely only be a band-aid.

    Advice about any of the above questions to help get my thoughts in order welcome.

    1. Whsssssshhhht*

      You seem like – as Alison would say – a conscientious employee. But I wouldn’t let that conscientiousness dictate your efforts to leave if that’s what you want. In other words, if things should fall apart after you leave, that shouldn’t make you feel bad. Strong efforts to salvage things can only do so much if they’re not implemented by others. It may be that the only way they will learn that lesson is if you aren’t there to save them. And while saving might be part of your job description now (whether in fact or in practice), once you leave it becomes their responsibility.

      That said, you sound as though you’re unsure you want to leave. Frustration can motivate someone to leave an otherwise good job and there’s the thought that if you stick it out things could get better. But I wouldn’t use that to evaluate whether you want to leave. The real question it seems is whether the actions or no actions of those around you are tolerable to you. They may all be lovely people and the job itself perfectly good, but if you spend half your day cleaning up messes or … perhaps more to the point… if you spend half your time frustrated by the mess others leave behind then you’re taking time away from your actual work and that’s not productive or fulfilling for you. Are you able to move past it? If not, I would recommend putting the feelers out there.

    2. Gadfly*

      I feel for you. Oldjob (the wonderful and dysfunctional in so very many ways job) had me feeling like Cassandra most of the time

      Me: That seems likely to lead to XYZ result–shouldn’t we take that into consideration?
      Them: No, everything will be fine, stop being a worry wort. Anyway, we don’t have time or money for anything not urgent problem Q.
      Time passes….
      Them: Why did NO ONE notice that XYZ could happen? We could have avoided so much pain had ANYONE had the foresight to realize XYZ was a possibility! It would have been so easy and now it is a huge mess! You were working with it, why didn’t YOU catch it?
      Me: counts to a million in head to stave off homicidal impulses…

      Bottom line is it sounds like it is a culture dominated by people who just are short term thinkers who respond most to pain. You aren’t going to change that with logic. The only way to change that is by making it more painful (in the short run) to continue this than change, and it doesn’t sound like you are in a position to do that.

      1. nonegiven*

        This is when you start putting all this stuff into emails and cc’d to whoever else it needs to be to cya.

        “As we discussed, it would be a really good idea to xyz because abc.” If this happens, lmno and may cost as much as $xxxxx to fix later.”

          1. Incognito*

            BTDT. Typically the people who are the root cause of the creation of a cya folder in my Outlook don’t care. When I can start counting up the number of times I held in an “I told you so”, that’s usually a good sign to start checking out other options. The moments I see coming down the pipe a year or so from now are the stuff of my nightmares.

            Just reading the replies inspired me to go back apply for another job I originally had back-burnered due to it being a lateral move at best, because thinking about that, I can’t even. I may totally be worth having to go lateral and build up my reputation in a new environment where I would have some room for growth.

  71. J*

    How do I transition into Instructional Design if I don’t want another degree and I have K – 12 teaching experience?

    1. edj3*

      I recently answered this question for an acquaintance. I work in learning & development, and manage a large team of instructional designers. Here’s what I told her:

      There are two general approaches to training development: hire subject matter experts (SMEs) and teach them adult learning principles and instructional design or hire instructional designers and have them work with SMEs. Where I work today, we use the first approach. In fact, I can’t consider hiring anyone who doesn’t have a lot of expertise in Federal and/or state tax. Ideally, candidates are credentialed with the IRS (CPA, JD or what’s called an Enrolled Agent). At another company, we used the second approach and had the instructional designers work with the SMEs (like network engineers or solutions architects in IT or the marketing team if the training was around the products we were selling). While there, I worked with two women who’d left careers as high school teachers and were hired to write training. One was a high school math teacher, don’t recall what the other one taught.

      Another route to consider if you truly do want to break into training in corporate America–look for training delivery jobs. Sometimes that can be the best way to get your foot in the door both with a company and in the training development/delivery space. Companies with call centers are always training their new employees (turn over in call centers is very high), so you might look for opportunities there.

  72. Observer*

    Was any one as taken aback as I was by the company with the employee who has a bird phobia?

    There was a lot of debate about Jake and Liz. But as I read and responded what really started getting to me was how the OP’s company seems to have handled the whole thing.

    I get sense of lack of empathy (not for Liz and not for Jake, either), a very CYA culture – but without the effort to do it right (Why didn’t they ask their legal counsel for guidance on the mental health issue?) and no sense of the humanity of and responsibility to their staff. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but the way everything was described was just off-putting.

    1. Amber Rose*

      I get that, but I try to keep in mind when I read these things that the LW’s are something of an unreliable narrator. Not in that they’re lying or misleading anyone on purpose but that they may not have the whole story, may not know how to communicate the story properly, or may have misunderstood some of what happened.

      So I try to read these things and give people the benefit of the doubt.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Honestly, people were making a lot inferences and suppositions about what the company did or did not do. The LW communicated what they felt were the most salient points and most likely left out a lot. We really can’t judge based on an absence of information.

      1. Observer*

        Well, that’s actually part of what is bothering me. The fact that none of these things were communicated – were apparently seen as not relevant, is troubling. In fact, many of the things people were speculating about were highly relevant, yet there was no mention of them.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          But a LW can’t include every relevant detail. Some are confidential and shouldn’t be shared even in this mostly-anonymous context; some are too complicated to explain concisely; and some get cut just because LW’s have to make judgment calls about what information is useful, and won’t always get it right.

  73. anon for now*

    Yesterday’s post about salaries got me thinking: When you give a prospective employer the salary range you want, how big should that range be? And if it’s a fairly lateral move (think same title but at a larger company) how much of an increase can you ask for?

    Through a lot of research, including the very helpful “how much money do you make” posts here on AAM, I believe the going rate for my position in my area to be $30K-45K. I often see examples where people give a 10K range as what they’re looking for, but I would feel odd saying my range is $35-45. I make 32 now, and based on my research and years of experience feel that $35 is a very reasonable amount to ask, but 45 is pretty high, especially given the jump that’s be from my current salary. Am I crazy and is that actually a normal range to give, or should I go smaller? I don’t want to give the impression that I have unreasonable expectations, but also don’t want to shoot myself in the foot if they have a higher amount in mind.

    1. Incognito*

      Great question! I was just thinking about this as I was applying to jobs, and does the jump from your current/previous salary matter in this at all?

      1. anon for now*

        My only consideration of my current salary is that I’m in the non-profit world where financials are publicly available. My position’s salary isn’t listed anywhere publicly, but with things being so open and transparent, I don’t think I’d have much of a leg to stand on if an interviewer asked my current salary and I said I didn’t want to share. And since I’m applying to similar positions, I’m afraid they’d scoff at asking for such an increase.

        If anyone can’t tell, I tend to really overthink things.

        1. Incognito*

          In my field, salary varies a lot between certain types of employers. So it’s not weird at all if you apply for a position at Company Type B and ask for a much higher salary than you have at Company Type A, as long as what you’re asking Company Type B is in line with the market rate for Company Type B.

    2. Periwinkle*

      If the going rate is 30-45K and you think your experience should probably land you at $35K, why not make your range $35-40K? I don’t think it would necessarily hurt anything to say $35-45K though.

    3. S-Mart*

      My range listed to employers has generally been minimum to minimum +20%, rounded to 5k increments. Started at $35K-$40K. Now it’s $90K-$110K (probably slightly higher next time I go looking).

    5. Delyssia*

      Have you looked at what it would take in terms of pay to make the move worth it if the benefits are nowhere near as good?$45k might be reasonable for someplace with lousy benefits, in which case I’d list that as the top of your range.

    6. nonegiven*

      Depends, the possible range of insurance cost to you, their 401k match, PTO, etc. What are those things worth to you? If the benefits are really crappy, how much would make you take the job any way, could be the top of the range. The bottom of the range is what you would take the job for if the benefits are incredible.

  74. Periwinkle*

    Several of my coworkers are frustrated because the salary range for new hires for our position has increased, but now this means that new hires with no experience in the job are making almost as much as people with 2-5 plus years experience, plus more education. I truly sympathize because for a long time I was stuck in the same situation as they are except it was the round of salary range increase prior to this one. I had to leave and come back to get up to the new market rate salary range. I don’t mind letting them vent, but all I can tell them is that the promises management is making them now about how current employee compensation is going to be re-evaluated and corrected in the next few years is exactly what I was told and it never happened back then either. We all have access to the compensation information and they know what happened with me.

    I wish I could come up with something optimistic to tell them. Selfishly I’d rather not have them leave because then we’ll have to train up new people and we’ll be severely shorthanded, but I know the only way they’ll get what they are worth is to leave. I don’t even know if I have a question in all this or just need someone to make sympathetic noises in my direction.

    1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      I had something similar. I am lucky in that I am part of a bargaining unit and the unit reps went to bat for those who would be paid less than starters. That might be an argument for those affected coworkers to have: before instituting this salary range increase for new hires, they need to bump up current employees.

  75. Chickaletta*

    Got a second interview yesterday at a company I really want to work for and it went well! Expect to hear back today one way or another.

    Here’s my issue: Since I have been a freelancer for the past six years, and I’m also making a career change, I am starting at entry level to get my foot in the door. There will be opportunities to move up eventually. But, the job I’m applying for, because it’s entry-level, is going to feel like I’m taking a step down at first. I did some job shadowing yesterday and I was reminded in a very real way that I’ll be sitting in a cubicle doing mundane, repetitive work. I relate a lot to this letter-writer https://www.askamanager.org/2017/04/i-get-bored-with-all-my-jobs-after-six-months.html and I know that at some point I’m going to get depressed and bored at this particular job. I’m trying to view it as a foot in the door though. I just need to get past the beginning and look at it as a job and not my life.

    I guess I don’t have much of a question, but if anyone has been in a similar situation before where you took the job and it worked out well for you, I’d love to hear about it!

    1. Elizabeth West*

      That’s okay–if it’s a career change and the work is new to you, think of it as learning the basics. Like learning a new language. You’ve got the bare minimum, the alphabet, so now you have to learn some vocabulary. And then build into grammar, etc. from there. It can be tedious, but you’re building new knowledge, not doing grunt work. :)

  76. What To Do*

    I was recently hired as a director for a small organization, with some background in a supervisor role. Almost immediately after being hired, I needed to hire a new associate for the organization and worked alongside with my board to select the right candidate. Though the candidate the board liked seems fine on paper, there were some red flags in her interview, like “offering her two cents” on everything as a strength.

    I’ve worked with her for a month now and find I am constantly correcting work or encouraging more productivity. It finally got to the point where I had a sit-down conversation with her in regards to correct some errors (she had be trained on these tasks) and the lack of work getting done. She became abrasive in her response and told me she didn’t see how it was her fault and she really doesn’t feel like there is anything else she could be doing.

    I feel like this in an inappropriate response in the first place, and I have a feeling this is not going to turn out well. Am I being over zealous as a new manager? Is this okay behavior from my associate? Should I have trusted my instinct in regards to this employee and pushed to interview other options?

    1. Gandalf the Nude*

      Without being a fly on the wall, it sounds like her response was inappropriate. Whether she thinks she’s to blame for the errors or not, that’s just not a good stance to take so early on when you don’t have a good grasp of expectations and workload. It’s early enough that letting her go right away wouldn’t be indefensible, but if you think the hard skills might be there and she could be a good employee with coaching, well, you still might consider letting her go since you’re still new too and don’t necessarily have the time for that kind of hands on management.

      But if you wanted to take that on, I’d bring her back in, remind her that as the manager it’s your job to give her feedback on her work so that she can meet expectations and develop as an employee. Tell her she needs to take that feedback reasonably gracefully (better word escaping me) and understand that, while you welcome constructive dialogue and always want to be reasonable in your decision-making, ultimately it’s your call whether her work is acceptable. Offer her some more training, lay out expectations for X improvement in Y time (both on the errors/productivity and how she communicates with you), and ask if she thinks she can meet those goals or if she thinks this job might not be the right fit after all. Let her know that if you don’t see the needed improvements by Y, then you’ll need to let her go.

      And next time, don’t let the board overrule your judgment. You’re the one who will work with and manage your employees, so give your opinion more weight.

  77. Double Jeopardy*

    I applied for a job on a company’s website. I’ve also been submitting my resumes to recruiters. I was contacted by the company and I scheduled an interview with them. I also got a call from a recruiter who scheduled a meeting with me today. The recruiter talked to me about a job that I am 99.9% sure is the same job at the company I applied/scheduled an interview with. What’s better: working directly with the company, or working through a recruiter?

    1. Incognito*

      Once you have submitted your resume directly to the company for a job, the recruiter is no longer able to do so. In some cases, a recruiter might be able to submit your resume to another job with the same company, but it really depends on company policy. Some companies will disqualify recruiters from submitting your resume at all once you have already submitted it yourself. My experience as been in these cases, if you’ve submitted your resume within the last 6 mo – 1 year the recruiter might be out of luck. Again, totally depends on the rules at each individual employer.

      The recruiters I’ve worked with generally ask you about what jobs you have already applied for and what companies over what time frame before submitting you as a candidate, because they know they won’t get paid for the referral. So it is really important to be honest when s/he asks you if you are looking and if you have applied to any jobs and where.

      1. Zahra*

        It happened to me and I directly asked the recruiter: “Hey, this sounds familiar. Do you mind sharing which company it is for?” If they demur: “Is it for X company?”

        In both cases, I add “I would not want to waste both of our time if I already applied there.”

      2. Is it Friday Yet?*

        This. And in my experience with recruiters, I was asked frequently about where I was applying or if I was actively interviewing at other companies. More than once, I had submitted my resume for a job that the recruiter also wanted to submit me for. It happens, but once you’ve done it, the recruiter cannot submit your information to the same company.

    2. Natalie*

      You definitely want to tell them, and not just for the recruiter’s sake. Some companies will take you out of the running completely if you’ve been submitted through two recruiters, or one recruiter and applied direct, to avoid any possible issues with the recruiter’s’ commission.

  78. AnnaleighUK*

    So I mentioned last week about a potential explosion from Boss when I resigned – it happened. But fortunately, loudly enough for HR to hear so Boss got a Talking To and has been assigned to our Edinburgh office until I have worked out my notice! Turns out Boss’s explosions had happened with clients when they refused a tender brief and he was under investigation anyway! The rest of my team are sad I’m going but happy for me so it all worked out okay!

      1. AnnaleighUK*

        It was so hard to keep a straight face when Scary HR Lady walked in without knocking. She’s quite authoritative and stern-looking (imagine Professor McGonagall in a business suit) and Boss kind of just… crumbled as soon as the door opened. I was pretty much cowering before she came in but the relief when she did was huge. I still can’t believe she sent Boss to Scotland for the rest of the month (we’re based in a town called Guildford, which is south of London) and she told me that Nice Boss Lady would be in charge until my notice was up. I’m so happy, I don’t have to work looking over my shoulder for the rest of the month and I can hand stuff over to my team in relative peace and quiet. There will still be emails from Boss but he can’t actually physically come up to me and give me grief. Bliss!

        1. Hrovitnir*

          Wow, that is so satisfying (and the HR Lady sure does sound scary! Or intimidating, at least.)

  79. Turtlewings*

    I work as assistant to the Interlibrary Loan Coordinator at an academic library. She’s retiring this summer and I’m really, really hoping to move up into her spot. If I do, I’d like to make some attempt to negotiate my pay, which I’ve never done in my life. Thing is, I have no idea what to ask for. Poking around online for what others make in the position hasn’t been helpful, as it seems to vary wildly, the job considered entry-level at some institutions and requiring a master’s degree at others. (Fwiw, I don’t have a master’s, and I’m pretty sure my boss doesn’t either.) I don’t expect to make whatever my boss is currently making — she has many decades more experience — so even if I felt comfortable asking her about it, I’m not sure it would help. In addition, the higher-ups say they’re restructuring the role before filling it, partially due to budget cuts, so that complicates matters. Any advice?

    1. GigglyPuff*

      I would think you really can’t find anything out until they post the actual job, especially since you said they’re restructuring the role. Unfortunately when that happened here, some of the jobs went from no masters to masters required. My guess because they know they can get people with them in such a bad market. But anyway, most universities/colleges have salary bands they post online, so you should be able to look at that.
      I’d also talk to your boss about it. They might be able to give you more info, like what the restructuring is, whether you would have a shot, maybe even recommend you to HR.

  80. ann perkins*

    Was waiting for the open thread this week because I didn’t want to get too far off topic on the thread about the bird phobia/injury/I won’t come back unless you fire this person situation. But, I’m totally of that mindset, even though the situation is less extreme.

    A couple weeks ago, my Problem Child coworker massively screwed something up. Not only did she not hold herself accountable, but she lied to her boss, in front of me, about what caused the situation. She has been in her role for seven years and cannot even do the basics of her job. But because she hasn’t been managed properly, HR wouldn’t let us put her on a PIP. (I say us because even though I don’t manage her, I work closely with the person who does, and we both thought she needed to be on one). I told my therapist if they didn’t put her on a PIP I would quit (only if I had another job lined up, though). I already knew she was bad at her job, but this was the final straw for me. And I know I can’t say, “she goes or I go,” and I never would, but I’ve decided she is not someone I want on the same team as me, and if she is not going to be properly managed into a PIP or even out of the org, it is time for me to move on.

    1. Baby Grand*

      Hi Ann – I posted right below you, so I thought I’d send you a note. Problem coworkers do suck! Are you forced to pick up the slack for your bad coworker? You don’t mention, so I wasn’t sure. But, I was wondering whether you have more of an issue about how the company is treating the situation, rather than with your coworker specifically? I’ve had coworkers I didn’t like or who were bad at their job/inept/just mean. But none so bad that I would threaten to quit if the person didn’t leave. I would however, take issue with any boss, management, or company that didn’t address issues that needed resolution.

      1. RKM1725*

        I think this is a great question. I previously worked at another place where some coworkers were rude, dishonest, and hard to work with, but the bigger problem at hand was that this management did nothing about it. If the problem is really the management, that’s an issue that probably won’t change no matter who gets hired or fired.

      2. ann perkins*

        Baby Grand – Thanks for responding! Yes, I have to pick up her slack, as do others. Your other question is a great one. Before the latest incident, my problem was more with the way the company was handling the situation (as in, they weren’t), but when we caught her in an outright lie and she didn’t hold herself accountable, that lack of integrity really rubbed me the wrong way. As I mentioned, I never would threaten to quit if they didn’t discipline her, which is why I am starting to quietly look elsewhere.

        1. SophieChotek*

          So even though you’ve brought up that you and other co-workers have to pick up her slack, they refuse to put her on PIP because she wasn’t managed properly? (So they refuse to take their own failure into account?) I don’t suppose you could let her slack just fall back on her…so it’s clear why this is an issue. I hope her lies did not affect anyone else (i.e. them getting blamed).

          Hope you find something soon. Its always frustrating when other coworkers seem to get away with things (intentionally or not) due ot poor management.

        2. Is it Friday Yet?*

          Do you know for sure that they won’t/aren’t doing anything? I think it would be odd for that to be discussed with you since you don’t manage her…

          1. ann perkins*

            I’m the team lead so I’ve been a part of discussions. They want to do something but HR needs more documentation so it is going to be awhile before (if) anything happens.

    2. MsEsq*

      I just left a position with a co-worker who was very similar – screwing up, lying in a bald-faced way about it, and HR wouldn’t let our manager do anything about the situation. I think if you have got to the point where you are so bothered/annoyed/whatever word you would ascribe to the situation to be thinking like this, it is best to leave when your organization is unwilling to deal with Problem Child. I feel like it’s a way to show organizations that their priorities are misguided – if they’re so willing to keep on/protect a co-worker who is driving good performers bonkers, then the only way you can really hold them accountable is to find somewhere better.

    3. StopThatGoat*

      I’m kind of surprised that her manager spoke to you about the PIP deal if you are a team mate to the problem child.

      1. ann perkins*

        I am actually the team lead, so the problem child coworker is not technically my peer (org chart wise), but I’m not her manager. However, since I work so closely with her boss and grand boss, they wanted me involved since I’ve had to deal with her general lack of production for the better part of three years.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      At some point it stops being a problem with an employee and starts being a problem in the management level. Seven years is an awful long time for a company to put up with this behavior.

  81. Baby Grand*

    I’m having trust issues with my boss, which is unfortunate – because aside from the fact that I take everything she says with a grain of salt, we have a pretty good relationship. As a person, I generally like her. But as a boss, I feel like she’s giving me the runaround. She is consistently telling me verbally when I ask for constructive feedback and in performance reviews that I’m doing a great job, but her actions don’t back that up. She’s frequently told me that she’s trying to get me a raise or a better title (without me asking) only to have it never happen. In fact the opposite has happened on occasion. She has frequently assigned me to projects that she knows are “not glamorous,” promising me that others have noticed my good work – yet when the time came for promotion, it was given to a peer, so obviously my non-glamorous projects are not overly helpful. And there are other instances when she’s told me I would or would not have to work on something only to turn around a few days later and tell me the opposite. To be fair to her, in the past there have been good things, I was promoted 6 months after I started and given a bonus after a particularly onerous project, both of which I think she spearheaded. The thing is, I don’t mind being a worker bee and getting **** done. But, I’m starting to feel like I’m being lied to (or if not lied to, then at the very least, she’s not communicating well) and that’s something that I have a hard time with. After thinking about it, I think she wants her team to like her and we all do. But, as much as I respect her for the work she does and what I’ve learned from her, I feel like I’m getting a little bit of emotional whiplash from her not being honest with me.

    I’ve worked with much worse bosses in much more toxic environments, so I know that I have a relatively good thing going here and feel a little guilty for feeling this way. But honesty is a huge deal for me. If I feel like someone is lying or isn’t being straightforward, I can’t trust them. Literally cannot. I can’t overlook it, ignore it, salvage it. My brain won’t let me.

    1. Manders*

      Oh hey, I posted about a similar issue upthread. It’s good to know I’m not the only person dealing with this.

      To be honest, I’m eyeing the exits right now. Like you, I’ve worked in more toxic environments and it’s hard to figure out where “generally a nice place to work, but underpays and overpromises” fits on the good job scale when there’s no screaming and minimal nepotism and the benefits are okay.

      My advice: send out a few resumes. I was pleasantly surprised to find that I’m worth somewhere between 10 to 20k more than what I’m getting.

      1. Baby Grand*

        I’ll read your post!! Unfortunately, I can’t leave the company. (I’m under contract) I am looking into whether a transfer might be possible. But, it’s good to know there are others in the same boat!

        1. Gadfly*

          On that note, I’m even still personal friends with an ex-boss kind of like that (mostly deep company Stockholm Syndrome rather than conscious lying) and I’m really worried about what she’ll say in a reference but don’t feel like I’d get a real answer out of her if I asked.

          So if I’m not in the same boat, I’m at least in the flotilla.

    2. Incognito*

      This could be my boss. After 2 years of broken promises and the promotion of a less experienced co-worker, I had an honest and serious sit down with her. She acknowledged the problem, and made good on the promises. What I really wanted was just plain honesty. I can work with honesty even if I don’t like what I’m hearing or don’t agree with it. If there was a “business decision” that had to be made (budget issues, office politics, resourcing issues, etc) that caused her to break repeated promises, I am totally okay with hearing that.

      In some offices promotions and assignment decisions are more political than operational. It may not be your boss is lying about your ability and performance at all, but it’s totally possible she is over promising in the same way my boss was over promising. A calm and frank discussion (bring the promises to her attention, but don’t be accusatory, focus on your accomplishments and setting goals for your own career path) can clear that up.

      I can tell you when the promotion of a co-worker thing happened I was absolutely livid. I have never been so silently enraged at work, and I have also worked in some really toxic environments. I totally get where your brain is at!

      1. Baby Grand*

        The promotion of the coworker thing happened 2 months ago and I was pretty blindsided by it. And yes, absolutely livid. Actually, still pretty livid. And even more livid that I had to put on a good front for my coworker/now team lead and be “professional” and nice/supportive/team player-y. I was actually wondering the other day whether I get any brownie points for being so f****ing professional during this. (I’m thinking not) I do think there are political aspects at play here. And to be fair, I am not a politics person – DC politics or business politics. The truth is that if politics are needed to move ahead here, then this is not the place for me.

        And thank you for helping me figure out my own issue. (I can stick it out until it is time to move on)

        1. Incognito*

          I was seething for weeks. I didn’t even trust she was going to be able to make good, because I had to wait for the next review cycle, which was 6 months down the road. She told me the Grandboss and HR approved of the plan to promote me, and she got me a sizable raise in the meantime. I considered that a good faith attempt to right a wrong and stuck it out. I got my promotion as promised. She stopped making promises about my career she could not keep.

          I suck at office politics, like right now. I am totally sucking at it. The issue I’m dealing with now (not a promotion issue) is all about office politics. There are absolutely no brownie points for sucking it up and being the better person, but hopefully you can cash in later with some good references when you move on to something better.

          The promotion issue I had with my boss a couple years ago was less political and more logistical/stupid HR policies. I can’t even explain what happened in a way that makes any sense, because it’s stupid AF. I figured that much out before even talking to her, because I knew how my employer operated, but that didn’t change how absolutely seething angry I was at her for the 2 years of BS. Don’t keep making promises you can’t keep! It also meant going any further with that company would be nothing but battles. :(

          Good luck to you!

    3. Confused Again*

      Ooof! Yeah, this isn’t good, although it sounds like your boss just sucks at giving critical feedback rather than trying to do anything malicious, but, in the long run, it’s obviously unhelpful for you.

      Is there anybody else on her level or above her you think you could get a more honest appraisal of your work on? Or might it be worth approaching her directly about being passed over – not as in “Hey, why did Jane get that job and not me?”, but more “I really like the way Jane’s career path at the company is going. If I wanted to get promoted into a role like Jane’s next time it was available, what would I need to do/are there any skills I need that I don’t have now?”. It’s trickier to answer that one without giving some sort of constructive feedback.

      FWIW – I’ve also been in a similar situation. Been told I was doing a great job and not given any/only the most minor pieces of feedback when I asked for constructive criticism, and then been passed over for promotion. It sucks but I think it’s quite common as a lot of people are not great at giving feedback – even a “You’re great but Jane’s just better at X and has more experience at Y” would have helped but nope.

      1. Baby Grand*

        There’s no one really above my boss who works with me closely enough to give me constructive feedback. And unfortunately, I don’t have a mentor or someone similar who I can go to and ask these kinds of questions. I did ask what skills I should work on to be considered for this kind of position in the future. She said, “nothing.” Literally. Nothing, you do a great job. Which although sounds lovely, is also kind of a blow. I think she meant that in reviewing the personal strengths of both of us, she felt that my coworker would be better. And that professionally, there was nothing I needed to improve or change. But, while I can assume a whole bunch of reasons for a whole bunch of things, I am very tired of a) taking her word for it only to be disappointed or frustrated when events don’t match what she’s saying and b) trying to figure out the truth behind what she’s saying or doing so I don’t get blindsided by things. That said, I think I just need to suck it up and stick it out until my contract is over – try to get the most out of the situation, the company, the salary – and try to position myself for a better opportunity down the road. :(

        1. Anony Oz*

          I dealt with similar feelings the past year, a tried to tell myself the same thing – that surely there were more toxic environments out there and that I should be grateful. It’s only looking back a few weeks after moving on that I now have a different theory. I feel like given my personality and values, and maybe even past experiences, that THAT situation was actually extremely toxic for me. Even if it’s not for others with different ideals.

          I had a manager who started out as my friend, built trust with me by confiding about a lot of confidential matters, made me her support pillar and shoulder to cry on, then after 6mths, cut me off without explanation – both as a friend and managerially (would cancel meetings, actively avoid talking to me, she pulled back a project we were working on, basically gave me copy/paste jobs to do and don’t include me on big team projects, and ended any constructive initiatives I put forward to improve some of our systems.) When I was sure this was a pattern I approached her to try and resolve everything (even apologised profusely for whatever thing I must have done to make her change toward me, even though I’d done nothing but be the most loyal employee and friend to her – at least that I knew of!). — Well, she completely denied anything was happening or even that anything was different in our relationship, when it so clearly was. (Cowardice/covering her own back IMO). Of course, I walked away feeling stupid and telling myself to get on with work and that my own logic must be whacked because surely she wouldn’t be that bad a manager to lie to my face (I betrayed my instincts basically). Anyway, for me, the behaviour just continued and got worse. On the few occasions I tried to bring the matter up again I got completely shut down and basically told she didn’t have time to talk about it, like I was some annoying juvenile (I’m a fairly high performing dedicated employee, had a good rapport with our staff and had always been thought of highly in our team).
          There were plenty of times she’d say one thing and do another, with others too, even her boss. Sometimes basically telling outright lies. But at times she would then hate on everyone else in the office like you were her confidant again. It was very confusing. I also couldn’t get clarity on my role, or my colleagues’. Huge functions in our dept we’re just kind of being left to whoever might pick it up. I couldn’t get feedback on my performance, and she refused to have any kind of discussion about career progression saying she didn’t know. That kind of behaviour just eats away at your trust until you’re clutching at any ray of hope things will get back to normal. For me they didn’t and I started to suffer emotionally as well. I was stressed, couldn’t sleep or relax or think about anything except the situation and how I could fix it. By the end of it I wasn’t even the same person. Pretty sure I was depressed and didn’t even know it. Luckily my family and friends were there to say – ‘this definitely isn’t you.’ And be my wake up call. In good news, I decided to start listening to myself, acknowledging that I was a valid person with a right to fair treatment, and a right to the truth if I’d done something, and a right to a decent manager and basic facts about my role. That’s when I realised there was something wrong I couldn’t figure out or fix and that I couldn’t change her behaviour. I got a new job – nothing amazing – but slightly better pay in a functioning professional environment – and two weeks later I feel so much better – a little damaged, but fine to move on. Any longer though, that previous role would have eaten my soul. Mistrust is such a misunderstood issue. I didn’t even really understand it myself until I read up on it.

          The point of my story is not really to blame unsuspecting managers, but in cases where there’s a pattern of behaviour that breeds mistrust, and you know you’re sensitive to that, don’t try and pretend to yourself it’s OK – listen to your reasoning if it’s been reliable in the past – because if you’re anything like me you’ll end up betraying your own wellbeing if you don’t.

          Disclaimer: I don’t think managers are always to blame for trust issues, different sensitivities abound. But I’ve learnt a good manager should be approachable, somewhat understanding of your differences and needs, and willing to adapt their behaviour a little to help you thrive – that’s their job – managing people. Feelings, personalities and all. I’d still be at my other job if my manager had done that.

          1. Baby Grand*

            Thank you for sharing your story. There are definitely avenues you’ve outlined here that I’ve travelled down. For the first few years I was her confidant about coworkers, her boss, the company. Constantly being told I was her number 2. I think it was her way of keeping me on board. But in reality, it was her way of getting me to do the stuff she didn’t want to do. (One assignment comes to mind when she prefaced asking me by telling me I was her favorite person in the world, to which I replied “uh oh.”)

            The past two years my star has dwindled. I’m not praised quite so much. My meetings or conversations with her are short, because she frequently seems preoccupied, busy, irritated. I no longer try to engage her in longer discussions or opportunities to chat because she seems uninterested. Though, there are moments still where we’ll have a moment that reminds me why I stay. The truth is that while I can’t leave, I think I have to stop trying to get back to those earlier days. It’s not possible, because I don’t trust her as I did then. And it’s sad that they’re gone. And it’s sadder still that I feel like I have to just put my head down and not engage as I once did. I’m a conscientious employee – so I can’t revert to a place where I work 9-5 and don’t do more than I need to do. I’m too paranoid it will work against me in the end.

            Overall, it’s just unfortunate that I’ve found myself in this space, when it seemed to be so promising. I was telling a family member the other day that if this was a relationship, I would have broken up with her the day I got passed over promotion. Packed up my things and moved out. But, that’s not an option. So instead we’ll have to keep living in the same house, keeping a respectful distance until either I’m able to move on or she kicks me out. I just hope I’ve given her enough good will, so I can stick around until the contract is up, get a good reference and I can move on.

  82. Anonybus*

    Does anyone have suggestions or tips on how to tell your boss you are requesting an internal transfer?

    1. Thlayli*

      Ask them if you can set up a private meeting which should be less than half an hour and then set it up and hen just tell them face to face.

    2. Paquita*

      I am currently looking to transfer out of my department. We have to fill out a form and have our supervisor add their comments to it. No way to apply internally without them knowing about it. :( They only good thing is that once HR has the form on file you can request to have it sent to other hiring managers for up to a year.

  83. Karyn*

    I have a question for anyone who has worked as a recruiter or as a temp.

    In February, I was laid off from my full-time legal assistant position of four years. They’re having financial difficulties, and had to do layoffs, and I was an easy choice because I am taking the bar exam in July (God willing). Thankfully, I’d seen the layoff coming a mile away (seriously, law firm overlords, don’t have closed door meetings with HR for a month when you’ve lost 8 partners in the span of 2 years – we all know what that means) so I signed up with a temp agency a month prior. Because of this, the next day, I had a job offer.

    The company I’m working for is a multinational corporation. They are moving this office location to their US Headquarters several states away, and I was hired as a “legal temp” to help with the cleanup. The assignment is obviously very temporary, no room for advancement to perm, and is scheduled to end sometime in October or November, which is around the time I should find out the results of the exam. For those who aren’t familiar, it’s been my understanding that most people, when they take the bar exam, start looking for attorney positions shortly after the exam, in anticipation of being licensed. So here is my issue.

    A couple attorney positions at legal aid in my city recently opened up – paid positions, which are extremely rare – and they are taking applications from lawyers and those taking the next bar exam. I’ve ALWAYS wanted to do public service, and legal aid is something I’m really interested in – and I think I’d be good at it, too. But this job assignment isn’t scheduled to end until sometime in late fall/early winter, and I feel like it would be terrible to apply for other jobs (and possibly get hired) and leave early. Especially since they’ve spent time training me and may not be able to train someone else before they have to leave. I should note that a lot of the permanent employees of the company have either found other jobs or are moving with the company to their HQ state – so the office is very barren at this point.

    Does anyone have any advice? If I took a permanent job, would I be burning the bridge with the staffing agency? Is it a terrible thing for me to do? There is no firm end date for the assignment, so if I start interviewing too late, I could be unemployed by the time the assignment ends. But if I get an interview and offer quickly – two, three, or four months before the company moves – I feel like I’ll be leaving them high and dry. There is no employment contract other than the standard handbook, which states that the Employer (the temp agency) and Employee (me) may terminate the employment relationship at any time for any reason, but I still feel guilty.

    And for any attorneys out there, do you have any advice on how to handle this transition in my own career?

    1. Chickaletta*

      I’ve been a temp in the past and it was easy to resign, even before they stopped needing someone to fill the role. It’s not like employment where there will be weeks of searching for the right candidate to fill your space, rather, there’s a good chance that the staffing agency will have someone to replace you the day after you leave. Their job, after all, is to provide labor for their clients. And don’t feel guilty by the training they provided you, they went into knowing that they were training a temp. They will train the next person too. It would be considerate to give them notice, of course, but quitting in the middle of a project is a very normal thing to do in temp world and they won’t blame you one bit for accepting a full-time offer. It happens all the time.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      If you give adequate notice to your staffing agency, it shouldn’t burn any bridges. People leave jobs all the time. Give them time to work on finding someone to replace you.

    3. LawCat*

      Definitely apply for permanent jobs. If you land something, provide the standard two weeks notice to the temp position and move on. Leaving jobs is a normal thing to do regardless of whether it is temporary or permanent. You don’t owe the temp employer anything special.

    4. Jennifer Walters*

      As someone who took the California Bar Exam in July 2016 and passed (thank God), getting results in November, I recommend you apply for ALL permanent positions, whether or not you’re in a temp position. I moved to the LA area in May, studied for the bar until July, then started my job search and it was slow moving. I got a law clerk position at a firm in September and then just now ended up at a firm I truly love this past month (Thanks to AAM!). There are A LOT of legal temp programs, so if one gets snitty because you found a permanent position, there’s always another. But in my experience, the majority of legal temp programs are aware that the “temporary” of the position goes both ways, because a lot of lawyers temp (and do Document Review) while waiting for bar results or transitioning legal niches. Hope this helps!

  84. Tempest*

    Anyone who read my request for advice which new job to take, I ultimately picked the cool one rather than the one where I really clicked with the manager. When I interviewed for the cool job they were all just really cool for lack of a better way to put it.

    Their product is on par with the one I know here. The other job would have meant a lot of high stress targets I’m not used to where as this one is purely about excellent customer service.

    The pay would have been slightly better at the other job but also commission sales based where as I’m on a rate I’m quite happy with at the cool job and it’s all basic salary. It’s also Monday to Friday only and I’ve been working Monday to Friday plus every second Saturday for so long I won’t know what to do with myself with the whole weekend off every week. The slightly shorter commute to a slightly better neighbourhood also didn’t hurt.

    The cool company actively encourages growth, they’re in a huge growth phase and it’s highly likely that there will be a role for me to grow into in the very near future. They also actively hire for rockstars so I’m unlikely to end up with a cell phone addict who hides in the bathroom doing nothing all day for a colleague like I have here, nor with a manager who is totally disinterested in managing. High pressure in customer service is where I excel and what’s ruining this current job for me is a colleague who goes out of their way to avoid doing the job all day and a manager who will not deal with it, so that sounds unlikely to reoccur there, plus I get my whole weekends back to destress.

    Thanks to all those who took time to comment though, the place to vent about it all when no one really gets how mentally exhausting it is to have a rubbish colleague combined with a rubbish manager is very helpful even if you discount the excellent sounding board :).

    2. Hrovitnir*

      I didn’t see the original post, but good luck! It sounds like there were a lot of points in favour of the job you ultimately chose. It’s a good problem to have, but pretty excruciating to choose.

  85. Mimi*

    Any tips on how to get support for career advancement if your managers change often? I am on my 4th manager in 10 months and now she is leaving.

    Its super frustrating as I dont have enough of the right experience to apply for her role but without some stable its difficult to get any support for training courses, cross training or trying to get more experience in the areas I want career wise.

    For the record I work in information management – FOI and data protection stuff.

    Anyone have any suggestions for getting help when new managers never stay?

    1. Jillociraptor*

      Can you explain more of what you mean by “getting support for training courses”? Do these need managerial approval at your company? Or are they limited enrollment or something like that? What I’m asking is whether you actually need a manager to access any of these opportunities. That’s just dissimilar to my environment so I wasn’t clear.

      I’ve been in my current job for about two years, and in that time, my manager was on maternity leave for three months, and then left in January, so I’ve spent a solid chunk of my time here without a permanent manager. I’ve been able to get opportunities for professional development by building relationships with other managers and volunteering for projects and committees that sound interesting. I’d say of the half-dozen or so bullets for this job on my resume, probably two thirds of them are projects that I volunteered for and aren’t really in my job description. Plus, I have a great network of senior people in my organization who have worked directly with me and have a high opinion of my work, which is great for my ongoing development here.

      I think the upshot here is that you have to assume that you’re not likely to get a manager who’s going to foster your professional growth in the way you’re looking for, so you need to take the initiative to seek out those opportunities for yourself.

  86. Annie Moose*

    Call for stories! (because I’m bored and I want some neat stuff to read :))

    I’m just wondering if anybody wants to share times they used Alison’s advice, even if they hadn’t sent in a letter. I’ll share a recent one from me to start:

    I have this one kinda weird coworker. I don’t like describing people as “weird”, but he just… has a lot of qualities that can get annoying. I can give as good as I can get, so I mostly get along fine with him. But a while back, he started making random comments on my food. (I’m a fairly thin woman who’s a few years younger than him, for context.) Instantly, all I could think about was the “food police” letter from December! So rather than just sit quietly or get defensive or whatever, I decided to try out Alison’s usual advice when coworkers are getting weirdly nosy… that is, to flat-out say “That’s a weird thing to say to a coworker.”

    And you know what? It worked beautifully! Nipped it in the bud and he hasn’t mentioned it since. I think he genuinely didn’t realize how odd/personal it was for him to be commenting on what I was eating, so specifically calling it out as “weird” made him take a step back and rethink it.

    1. Lillian Styx*

      I don’t know if this counts as a story, but AAM’s advice has made me a lot more conscientious about acting on my emotions at work and I’ve been working at controlling myself better when I get mad or frustrated. Since I made this resolution there have been a few incidents where I really wanted to blow up but was able to keep control pretty well… at least a lot better than I would have a couple years ago. Recently I met up with a buddy who I used to supervise and told him about this and he was like “Yeah, I remember how you were…” So it was pretty validating getting that candid feedback from my former victim too!

    2. Mimi*

      Not a story or interestig but I do often find myself thinking what would AAM say? Often the answer is “your manager sucks” and that I should file this away as something to know about my manager and decide if knowing this I still want to work there (I don’t).

    3. Delta Delta*

      This isn’t specific, but I had been reading AAM pretty consistently for about a year when some things started to go wrong at my former job. I felt like I had some perspective, based on the letters and answers, and it made me realize the things going on were Not Normal. And when I realized it was time for me to leave and I didn’t have another job set up, I took the advice of others and made sure to save up and make other preparations for when I was ready to go. When I gave my notice I was clear and firm, and communicated exactly what needed to be said in terms of end date, compensation, etc., and that was all aided by various AAM letters over time. Overall – very helpful!

    5. Nerd*

      I used the “What’s going on?” behavior query with my cranky five-year-old the other day. :-) Turns out she had something on her mind and was redirecting her anger about that onto what I made her for dinner.

    6. nbbuyer*

      I work with someone who is rather on the lazy side and does the absolute bare minimum possible (if that). I have wholeheartedly taken the advice found here about looking for the hilarity in situations, and I have to say, it’s worked out quite well for me. “Oh, what’s that? You were assigned a space that we actually already gave to someone else? Oh, Coworker must have forgotten that we had to give that space up to get these two new spaces! Let me see what else we can figure out for you in the meantime.” And, in the process, other people at work are becoming much less annoyed by Coworker’s behavior as well!

    7. Gadfly*

      It has been helping me process OldJob. Old Job was a mix of great and dysfunctional and it was killing me even as I stuck to it. And so lots of things apply to pieces of it. Good and bad. And it is helping me (I hope) to shed some of my dysfunction, both what I was trained into and that I developed from growing bitter.

  87. Violette*

    So I’m having a weird interaction with one of my coworkers and would love any thoughts or perspective anyone can offer. I’m one of the newer people in my department and this coworker has been here for decades. She’s… kind of a female mansplainer? And she can be really condescending when talking to people. It honestly doesn’t bother me that much – I don’t work with her very often and when I do, I recognize that those are her issues, not mine. But recently, she’s been doing this thing where she’ll snap at people and be kind of nasty about some minor issue, and then come by their office an hour or two later to make a loud, insincere-seeming over-the-top apology. It’s happened to me a couple of times and I just told her not to worry about it, but she seemed to want some elaborate show of forgiveness. It’s super weird and seems to be a new thing.

    She was passed over in the latest round of promotions in favor of some less-experienced people (because of her interpersonal style, I think) and she seems unhappy about it – maybe that’s related? And the issues seem to be mostly things that were done differently in the past and she thinks that way was better. So I get why she’s touchy about the specific issues, although of course that doesn’t justify being rude to people.

    I’ll probably keep doing the same thing if it happens again (i.e. not doing the big show of forgiveness), but I’m so confused about the motivation for the behavior. It just seems like such a weird thing to do – why would you want to call attention to the fact that you’ve been a jerk? If it was a sincere apology that would be one thing, but it’s done so loudly and theatrically that it seems to be for the benefit of people in neighboring offices.

    Anyways, any thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks!

    1. Frozen Ginger*

      She’s probably doing the loud, theatrical apology because she assumes everyone else has heard about whatever incident through the grapevine.

    2. Mimi*

      Well if your hunch that she got passed over for promotion because of her interpersonal skills is true then she might be doing this as a weird misguided attempt at showing “good” communication.

      If someone has drawn her attention to her snappy behaviour this might be her way of trying to say “hey I am working on this…” by making a show of the apology to ensure people see it.

      Thats the only thing I can think of to explain it.

    3. FishcakesHurrah!*

      Maybe the loud apologies are meant to demonstrate to her superiors that she’s capable of repenting and is actually a nice person? Or maybe she’s expressing her anger by being aggravating.

    4. Violette*

      Thanks all – that’s a good point and you’re probably right. She’ll be retiring in a few years and I’d be surprised if an opportunity for promotion came up in that time, but it could happen and maybe she’s still hoping for it. If it is an attempt to showcase “new and improved” interpersonal skills, it’s definitely not working, but it does make a little more sense. Thanks, I appreciate it!

    5. Rat in the Sugar*

      It’s possible that the angry blow-ups are to call attention to her own unhappiness, and the apology theater is just more of the same. She probably doesn’t feel that she’s been a jerk; I would guess she feels justified in her grumpiness and thinks it is natural to lash out when she feels that way. She wants everyone to know how upset she is.

      “I’m so sorry that I was rude to you, it’s just that I’ve been so upset lately at everything that’s happened to me, it’s just so hard to keep it together when I’m so stressed at this poor treatment, but I never should have taken out my totally-justified-and-not-my-fault frustration on you! It’s everyone else who’s been a terrible jerk to me! Please forgive me!”

      Sincerely, someone who used to do the same thing but grew out of it around age 15

    6. LCL*

      Her actions make perfect sense to me. She was told she lost out on the promotion because of her interpersonal skills but hasn’t received any coaching on how to fix that. So she realizes when she snaps at people she is wrong, and is apologizing in the only way she knows how.

    7. Celeste*

      I agree with all of the others on why she is behaving like this. I would guess that she feels like she should be in authority, and that the condescension etc. is how authoritative people behave. It’s really pretty sad; I wonder if she has undermined her personal relationships with this behavior. I feel like putting up with the obviously insincere apologies is only an extra burden to the people who have to be around her.

    8. LCL*

      …and, in interactions with coworkers, it’s best not to analyze them for sincerity. It’s hard enough to behave professionally all the time, if sincerity is part of our job expectations I think most of us would be unemployed.

    9. Not Alison*

      In your shoes what I would really like to say to her is – you have apologized for this same thing to me in the past. if you mean your apology sincerely, then why not take a minute before you do it the next time and stop yourself from doing it. rather than having to forgive you, i would rather you not do it in the first place.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      I have a family member who does this. She will pull an embarrassing stunt (can’t tell if it’s deliberate or accidental) and then when she finally apologizes for it, it is some long theatrical apology involving a loud voice and how I was in an-oh-so-awkward-spot because of something she did and it must have been soo very embarrassing for me… blah, blah, blah.

      Shut this crap down. Seriously. Whatever issues she has those are hers not everyone else’s.

      Here’s is what I would do the next time it happens, because this is just going to keep happening: “Jane, this has happened a few times now. And each time you have apologized loudly enough for the governors in states adjacent to ours to be able to hear you. Just stop doing it. Period. Stop doing it and then you won’t have to apologize.”

      Please. Please. Stop telling her it’s alright. Stop. It’s not alright, it’s not acceptable. Do not give her any idea that in any way is this behavior acceptable to you. There are times where we cannot tell people something is alright. And this is one of those times. That phrase falls out of our mouths automatically almost. So it feels weird not to say it. Plan out what you will say and have it ready so you don’t go to the default sentence “It’s alright.”

  88. Anne*

    I find myself in the position of managing/leading an international team, but without actually being their manager or otherwise having a managerial position. I’m the person in our small central office who is responsible for our grant reporting, and there are people in several offices who send in information or draft reports to the central office for these reports. Since we don’t have any other development staff, I’ve wound up being responsible for assigning them work, tracking their deadlines, assessing their work and meeting with them to discuss how to improve it, raising any concerns with the actual management, etc. None of this was part of my job when I was hired a few years ago – it’s developed over time without any specific instructions from management that I do this stuff, just because if I don’t do these things, I don’t get the information I need to do my part of the job. I still have a very junior title (think ‘associate’ or similar).

    For the past few years I’ve been thinking of these guys as my colleagues. But recently I decided I needed to train them all on something, and it turned out that they had essentially been thinking of me as their manager the whole time, and had been wishing I would give them more intensive training this whole time!

    Now I’m feeling a combination of guilty that I’ve essentially left them in the lurch for a long time, unprepared/stressed by finding myself in a pseudo-management position when I don’t have any management experience and not much professional work experience in general, unsure of how much actual authority over them (and responsibility for their performance) I have, and irritated that my job has changed so radically without a title change since I started here (I asked for one at my last review, though not something so high as management, and it was shrugged off).

    I guess I don’t have a more specific question than – what should I think about this? What should I do? I feel completely at sea here.

    1. Hrovitnir*

      I have nothing helpful to say, and I bet there will be some knowledgeable people to chime in. But I wanted to send you a kind of sympathy/congratulations mix. It is nice to be respected, but that is stressful, and my big concern on your behalf is responsibility + no apparent interest in even a title change, never mind a pay rise.

      I tend to be pessimistic about your ability to leverage this if you’ve already been left without a lot of support and handwaved when you asked about a title change. On the positive side you could get some good people management skills?

      Anyway, you’re allowed to feel however you like, even if those feelings are directly contradictory to one another!

      1. Anne*

        Part of what I’m concerned about is, if I apply for a job that seems like a big leap in responsibility based on my title, I’m not sure how I can explain it without sounding like I’m saying something negative about my employer!

        1. Hrovitnir*

          Yeah, that I have no idea. The closest to a real professional interview I had was an interview I volunteered for at the council for a psychology study. I got good feedback but learning how to actually dissect interviewing techniques is something I’m still able to avoid (and am dreading).

          Alison has offered scripts for a lot of “how do I say this without sounding unprofessional” queries you could probably modify if you can dig them out of the open threads. I’m pretty sure you could mention your responsibilities without explicitly saying “my ex-job refused to give me the title or pay commensurate with my level of responsibility”. :P

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Just use statements of facts: My job title was X. I did A through M activities/tasks.

            A good hiring manager will see right through that one and you will have explained your capabilities in the same stroke.

    2. Gadfly*

      I’ve nothing helpful to say other than that sounds like really poor management by those who should be doing the managing to let the situation develop like this in the first place.

      Maybe see if you can ask for a “clarification” of your duties? Write up a comparison of what your role supposedly is and what it actually has required (including why that started to be you) and ask questions about authority and responsibility regarding the others? Perhaps that will clarify that they need someone doing a more managerial type position. Even if it is only a team lead sort of position with a manager you can go to for larger issues?

  89. This Isn't YouTube*

    I’m not even sure anything can be done here.

    My work involves running a bunch of websites. Against my advice, my boss decided they needed a comment section. As you might have guessed, they’ve quickly turned to a place for bigotry and outright offensive comments.

    I pointed some of the worst out to my boss. I mentioned that allowing this reflects on the company. My boss, as well as most of my coworkers, works for an organization that, well, let’s just say they’re into putting a rah-rah positive spin on everything. So I was told that “It’s ok because the other commenters call out the bad ones” and “As long as what we put on the website is positive and supporting diversity, it doesn’t matter what the comments say.” I was also told that there’s no budget for someone to actively police the comments, but all I’ve asked is for the ones pointed out to be removed.

    I’m angry. I’m really bothered by this. I’m not into making threats (of the “Do this or I quit” type) but I’m trying to figure out if this means starting to job hunt. I love my job otherwise.

    1. Manders*

      How much power do you have over moderating the comments? Can you block certain IPs, words, etc.?

      I’m actually a fan of well-managed comment sections (if I weren’t, I wouldn’t be writing this) but you’re right, an unmanaged section can turn into a dumpster fire within hours.

      1. This Isn't YouTube*

        I have no power at all over the comments. I have no authorization or ability to touch them. That’s why I asked if someone was going to deal with it. I was told “it’s not a problem.”

        I would scream but it’d just be noise.

    2. Mimi*

      Allowing a comment section without policing it is horribly stupid. What happens if one person comments and the bigots direct their hatred in a bullying or threatening manner towards that poster? If nobody is monitoring it to remove such comments then your companys silence will look like approval.

      If you open a comment section you need to have clear rules or T&Cs for posting comments and moderators for removing comments against those rules. Doing otherwise is a dangerous gamble that could open them up to lawsuits, negative press and a loss of business at the very least. I wouldnt work with/provide business to an organisation that had hate comments on its site and didnt remove it.

      1. This Isn't YouTube*

        I used your (almost) exact wording — by refusing to remove bigoted and abusive comments, we are silently condoning these comments and behaviour.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Try telling them again, in different words and suggest they ask the company attorney before making a final decision. I would say something like “I will wait to hear back from you on what the attorney has said.” This means you feel the conversation is still open because the matter is that serious.

          I have done this to bosses, “No boss,you’re not getting this, this is pretty serious. And you pay me to warn you about serious stuff. I am warning you.”

          1. This Isn't YouTube*

            Thank you for your thoughts. Unfortunately, they don’t pay me to do warn about the serious stuff which is, I think, why they’re casually dismissing me. Even though I am not the most recent hire, I am the low person in the ranks. I perform a service that, I guess, nobody else will do, as they had 4 other people in the position (in 2 years!) who all walked away. (It’s not bad work; it’s just very basic work.)

            Also, the company is very small and I’d be surprised if they consult with a lawyer.

    3. Chickaletta*

      Agree that you might look into placing controls on comments.

      The other thing to do, which will take a longer time and be more difficult, but probably really effective, is to provide data that shows a link between adding the comment section to a decrease in revenue, less web traffic, or some other measurable metric that’s actually important to the company. Think in terms of money because that’s what usually gets management’s attention.

      1. This Isn't YouTube*

        I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. I have no ability to place controls on the comments and my boss insists it is not necessary.

        I also do not have access to the ad data.

        Part of the problem, I think, is that there are people who “bring the popcorn” — they love the drama caused by trolls and jerks and visit the site to see them cause problems. That drives up traffic, which my boss seems to mistake for things going well.

  90. Definitely not a coordinator*

    Longtime reader, first time commenter stepping up to the mic:
    I am in the enviable position of liking my job a lot and being extremely valued by higher-ups. I don’t have a degree that’s usually required to advance in the field, but they don’t really care! The only thing it affects is my job title, and that’s what my question is about: what is a job title that would work for the next time they promote me (which I have been informed is only a matter of time)?

    Current titles w/in my department from lowest to highest:

    Analyst
    Senior Analyst
    Specialist
    Senior Specialist
    Attorney
    Senior Attorney

    Anything above senior analyst requires the degree I don’t have. All titles do more or less the same thing, and I actually do WAY more than some of the specialists. Senior Analyst is recognized within the field to mean doing these things at a slightly lower level than where I am. Should I just stick with it? Any other title I can think of starts to be things like “coordinator”, which I am definitely not.

    1. Emilia Bedelia*

      My job has a similar structure of titles, with “Staff” or “Principal” being above “Senior”.The “Principal” generally also has some leadership of either projects or a team. Perhaps something like that (or “Lead”, maybe) would work for you?

  91. MsEsq*

    I am having trouble getting over my last, toxic job even though I am in a new, fantastic job. I left just a month and a half ago, but sometimes I still catch myself – particularly at night, when I try to sleep – getting really angry at how I and my department were treated. I worked as an administrator in higher education a law school in a very large state university, for context. The list of the nonsense that went on is so long, so here are some highlights:

    -the Dean always sided with students over staff and prided himself on being “accessible and responsive.” Once, a student e-mailed one of us and, because we had our weekly meeting, did not get a response immediately. He called the Dean 15 minutes after sending the e-mail demanding to know why no one was around to answer his URGENT question (it wasn’t). The Dean chewed us out about not answering and being responsive.

    -inability to fire a 100% toxic coworker who managed to be both completely lazy/incapable (he didn’t even know how to use Microsoft Word or anything on a computer beyond e-mail) and completely convinced of his own competence and brilliance. Constantly tried to get me to do his work, massively screwed up several important tasks that almost resulted in us getting kicked out of a National Consortium, and thought no one noticed he spent the majority of his work day conducting appointments for his paying clients from his independent consulting business providing the services we offered students. He got the same raise I did.

    -inept male co-worker who started 2 weeks before me got promoted out of office – when I asked manager why I had not been considered for position that was promotion/raise she said it was because co-worker “Was not a good fit” (and he wasn’t, he was sloppy and more interested in being a buddy/bro/friend) and I was. Within a year, and with 3 years work experience and 1 year experience in higher ed, he was ASSISTANT DEAN.

    In fact, nearly everyone there got a promotion, at least in title, while I was there – I did not, despite asking and manager advocating for it. My blood is boiling from just typing this letter. I want to stop dwelling on it, but I am not sure how. Suggestions?

    1. Clinical Social Worker*

      I honestly suggest therapy to process some of these feelings. Toxic jobs can really do a number on your mental health. It’s also difficult to say what at your new job will trigger thoughts of your old job.

      I’ve been at a FANTASTIC job for a year and the annual review triggered a BUNCH of memories and anxiety from my last job, even though the entire year had gone well at this new job.

      1. MsEsq*

        I think this might be a good idea – I tossed it back and forth but then felt like I was being a little silly thinking I needed therapy for it when I imagined explaining the situation to someone. So thanks for the positive affirmation!

        1. Clinical Social Worker*

          Speaking as a therapist: I would not find this silly at all. There’s a wide range of folks who come to therapy, from the seriously mentally ill to those who got stuck on a situational problem and need help moving on. I’m usually happy to help with folks anywhere on that spectrum.

          Hopefully you find someone who works well for you!

      2. Hrovitnir*

        Oh, definitely MsEsq! I wish we could convince the general population/social consciousness of therapy or outside help being good for milder problems.

        Also, it will probably take a while. It took years after we left for every conversation I had with my friend from work to stop turning into the worst things that happened there. Because there were so many. It still happens sometimes but it’s not so raw.

    2. Manders*

      Oof, I’ve been there. For me, meditation helped–not “clear your mind” style meditation, but a visualization exercise where I picture my anger as a physical thing, remove it from my body, and return it to the person it came from. It sounds goofy, but it works for me. And I usually fall asleep right after if I’ve been stewing on something.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      For the immediate, you can take walks at night. This will help you to clear your head up so you can sleep a little better and it will also help you to process what happened. As you walk you can remind yourself, “It’s over now. It’s over now.” I know that sounds too simplistic to work, and it may only take the edge off, but sometimes we have to remind ourselves that stories are no longer happening and the stories have become vivid memories.

      I am sorry this crap happened to you. I hope your new place gives you many happy years.

  92. Butch Cassidy*

    So I’m technically a customer service associate, but for several months now I’ve been “on loan” in quality auditing with three other people. We were brought on to help with a particular project which is now over, but our supervisor loves having us and wants to hire us permanently. She can’t even create job openings, though, until she gets the headcount approved, and she’s having a helluva time making that happen. There’s a chance that I’ll be back on the floor making calls by next month.

    I really don’t want this. When I first got the job it was a temp-to-hire deal, and the group of us who were hired all took the job because we were told that phone calls would be minimal to none. The job has changed dramatically and now we’re expected to make a lot more calls on a regular basis, and before I came to QA my supervisor gave me a heads up that we might move to taking inbound calls in the future and being more like a typical call center. I hate hate haaaate phone calls, and people being angry with me gives me a lot of anxiety. If I’m sent back to Ops, I will absolutely look for another job within my company. I’m a permanent employee now, and my company is absolutely massive with lots of opportunities to move around. Frequent team changes are common here.

    Short of preemptively applying for jobs before I even know if I’ll be leaving QA (which I love and ideally would stay in), what could I do to prepare for this move, should it happen? Should I just start applying anyway?

    Side question: I’m a level 3 getting paid on the lower end of that wage range, and I’ve been doing level 4 work since early November. That’s a big pay difference that I’m not getting. If I get hired to QA permanently, would I have any leverage to ask for some kind of back-compensation?

    1. Mimi*

      I would be speaking with your QA manager and previous manager about your strong desire to stay in QA. Beyond that since you cant guarantee a role in QA its wise to be applying to other internal roles that suit you.

      As far as back compensation you could inquire about it with your manager after you get a permanent role but its unlikely. An increase in wages seems like something you would have needed to agree before you took on the additional work but thats not something I am strongly knowledgable about.

  93. Confused Publisher*

    This is the end of Week 3 at an amazing new job after several years at a job that started out well but then turned into … something else entirely. Alison has lots of advice about combating impostor syndrome and adjusting to a new environment, but I’d love some tips from the commenters on things that are do-s and don’t-s for you when you start at a new place. I’m not a natural job-hopper, and the two offices are universes apart in culture, and so, I’m constantly worrying about whether my enthusiasm may be coming across as me thinking I know it all, or whether I’m doing something terrible without realising.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I don’t know how helpful this is but I use my commute time into work to roughly plan out what I will do today. Then on the way home, I do an autopsy of my day. What did I do well, what did I flub up? I find one or two things to correct then I STOP thinking about it. But I do this each day, so it adds up over time.

      I also keep a start up list of tasks on my desk, so that I know where to start in the morning.

      Down time, that time out, is just as important as the time IN. If you think you are just too energetic maybe taking a walk before work would be a good thing.

      1. Confused Publisher*

        Thank you: that’s amazingly helpful! (And I’m not surprised at all, given it’s you.)

  94. AMG*

    I am just going to vent for a second. My manager criticizes everything I do, and we have a meeting today to review how a recently closed project went. I am the most senior person on the team, next to our manager. I made a point of telling everyone what a great job they did completing the project on time and under budget, and of course he had a problem with it. He not only criticized the last project I ran for not being as good as this one, but also for saying positive things when he wants to hear all of the things that we need to do better (because God forbid he ever thanks anyone).
    I am trying to ignore him, but I am starting to feel henpecked when it’s every. single. thing. that comes out of his mouth. Everyone hates him but he is totally oblivious. I keep reminding myself that I may not be perfect, but I do a great job, and everyone knows it. I will keep telling my team when they do a good job–everyone deserves to be thanked!

    1. SophieChotek*

      Good for telling you team they did a good job. I think some managers are the type that will only talk about what needs to be improved, not what is good. They just seem to think “that is what managing is about” — finding every flaw and pointing it out.

    2. Hrovitnir*

      >:( If it helps, I think it’s wonderful you are still being a supportive manager despite not getting supportive management yourself and actively being hindered in your management.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Tell him that you mention things to people in the moment, as there does not seem any point to telling them after the project is over.

      I do agree that things can be done to streamline, take out hours of work and so on. But I think that should be done on a continuous basis. My crew developed a way to reduce an 8 person job down to a 2 person job. They did not make a big deal out of it, they just did it. Then they came and got me to show me and get my stamp of approval. (I said YESSS! and threw my hat in the air, of course.) The point is that improvements can be made as people are working along.

      I did have bosses who were shocked to learn that angry people do not work harder. You may have to have this convo with your boss at some point.

  95. Clinical Social Worker*

    I just received a second raise and I think I should thank my boss?

    I was contractually supposed to receive a $2,000 pay bump when I received a certain certification. I received that in February. I had my annual review in March and just received notice that I will get another $1,200. For being here only a year a $3,200 total pay bump is pretty nice!

    Would it be weird to write a handwritten thank you note? Or Should I email? I get that I’m probably over thinking this.

    Any and all feedback would be appreciated.

    1. Sparkly Librarian*

      (I haven’t refreshed, so I may be restating…)

      No, you don’t need to send a thank-you note to your boss. It wasn’t a personal favor to increase your pay. They’re rewarding you for your professional efforts with a raise (or keeping you in line with market norms). It’s a lot closer to them thanking YOU, and you wouldn’t send a thank-you for a thank-you.

      [Don Draper] That’s what the money is for! [/Don Draper]

      1. Clinical Social Worker*

        I love Madmen!

        Thanks. This is part of why I hesitated. I was not expecting a second pay bump so shortly after the first but your right, this is business as usual. The first was contractual and the second was slight (1.2%, it ain’t nothing and I’m grateful but it’s not huge by any means).

        Thanks for the perspective! Overthinking it was driving me bonkers.

  96. Anon and on and on*

    Need to rant/some positive words on grinning and bearing it.

    I have never got along great with Jane, one of my managers. I find her incredibly disorganized and a poor communicator. By disorganised, I mean in the sense that I have to tell her things (e.g where certain files are stored, what status work is at) several times before they sink in – it’s problematic to the point that I’ve had calls on my day’s off when she hasn’t been able to find a file that I have explicitly told her where it is twice. On one occasion, I also had to rush a big project for her because, despite agreeing with her and the big boss the deadline should be for a fortnight away, Jane forgot and then started telling me about how I was an awful let down because it wouldn’t be ready by the end of the week (the tanturm throwing was so bad, she almost had me convinced I had messed this up – until I checked my notes from the meeting and discovered that, no, I was right, I still had plenty of time before deadline).

    She’s also not the greatest communicator. She doesn’t explain what she wants clearly or, if she doesn’t understand something that’s being explained to her, she doesn’ explain what part she’s misunderstood. Instead, she plays the tactic of just repeating what she last said, but huffier, like the problem is that you don’t understand this is serious to her rather than you just don’t plain understand. I used to think the problem was me but I’ve noticed her do this to other people as well. I remeber at one point I was trying to explain an important technical point in the report but she sat there huffing and tutting and sighing so much I ended up having the wrap it up quick than I would have liked. Jane was later given a telling off by big boss for not bringing it to his attention – to which she blamed me for not explaining to her properly.

    Jane is also just downright rude at times. I think she sees herself as giving harsh criticism and therefore it’s ok, but the tone and phrasing she uses are often jarring. She treats one colleague like this so much it’s become an ‘inside joke’ among our group. She also once told a senior manager from our sales team that the idea they were working on was flawed and would never get sign off – because a similar idea hadn’t worked at her old company five years back. It was painful to sit through because our department has nothing to do with sales and Jane doesn’t really have any authority over this person.

    To be honest, I’ve decided to leave the company for other Jane-unreleated reasons so I hopefully won’t be hanging around much longer. I’ve thought about perhaps approaching her constructively (like “Hey Jane, when you don’t understand A, it would really help me if you told me what exactly you don’t understand about A. I’d be more than happy to clarify it but I need to know what you’re not getting”) but she’s very defensive and has been known to throw the type of tanturm usually reserved for toddlers so I’m not particularly keen on that. I’m more looking for kind words/advice on toughing it out until I can say goodbye.

    2. Gadfly*

      Try imagining her huffing through your resignation? It then makes it a little bit of an anticipatory joy? Like every time a villain in a novel sets themselves up for poetic justice and you just KNOW how it is going to bite them in the end?

  97. Alice*

    Looking for a voice of reason :)
    I heard from a mentor outside my current company that some of my colleagues had meet with her this week, and knowing I’m at the same firm she praised me effusively to them and said they should try to bring me in on some of their projects. Which is great!
    But in fact I’m already collaborating with them and I’m a little peeved that they didn’t mention that in the conversation. One of these folks and I just delivered a medium-size project together this week! Wouldn’t you say, yes, “I do know her and in fact we’re collaborating”?

    2. Mimi*

      Not necessaily.

      They might not have realised this person was someone you consider a mentor. The person knew where you worked but didnt seem to know about projects you were working on or that you were already collaborating with them.

      If I was in a situation like that with no knowledge of your relationship to this person I would thank them for the information and agree to look you up, etc. And then change the subject. Without your permission I wouldnt be discussing you with outsiders, maybe you have a restraining order against this person?

      Your colleagues may have been prioritising your privacy over disclosure. Just my 2p.

    3. kb*

      Maybe your mentor started praising you before the colleagues had an opportunity to mention that they have been working with you, then by the time they had an opening it would have felt awkward to mention that they did know you and work with you closely. I wasn’t there, but as a person who often accidentally awkwards-up conversations, I will tell you it is a thing that happens :)

      1. Alice*

        Thanks for these perspectives. I can see a pretty big difference between responding to “You should work with your colleague X” with “yes, we just finished a project together” and “yes, here’s her home address” but I’m sure there are people who request and need that level of privacy.
        I suspect it was more a matter of awkwardness or just not paying attention to every detail of a long conversation. I’m just feeling a bit un-appreciated by these colleagues so I’m primed to suspect the worst. But of course there are more likely and more constructive explanations. Thanks for helping me reframe this in my mind.

  98. Just Another Anon*

    I’m hoping someone can give me advice regarding how to handle a tricky situation with my former employer.

    While I was finishing college, I worked in a small doctor’s office for 3 years. The practice consisted of the doctor I worked for, myself, and 9 other employees. Because our boss was a doctor, he encouraged his staff to be patients when needed as an added bonus of employment. I saw him once or twice when I was sick during my three years there, but never planned on continuing to see him as a patient should I ever stop working there.

    Well, I graduated a few months ago, and was fortunate enough to receive an offer in my field, which was not at all related to the position I had in this doctor’s office. I gave my two weeks notice and left on very good terms. When I left, my boss told me he hoped I continued to be his patient. I did not comment.

    However, since then, I have received calls from the office staff, even the doctor himself, encouraging me to make an appointment. They have reminded me that I’m due for my annual visits, and questioned me why I haven’t made my appointment yet. I really don’t want to be a patient; I want to move on, but don’t want to burn any bridges or hurt any feelings, as I am still friends with half of the people I worked with. Anyone have any advice for how to handle this situation? I’m afraid the office will take this personally. I tried bringing it up to one of my former coworkers recently and it became very awkward.

    1. Clinical Social Worker*

      How did you bring it up with them?

      You can simply say “Oh I’ve taken care of my annuals elsewhere” and then quickly change the subject.

      1. Just Another Anon*

        I haven’t really brought it up to them. I just continue to dodge and tell them I have to check my schedule and call back.

        I did attempt to bring it up to one of the former coworkers when we got together for coffee last month. It became awkward because he didn’t seem to understand why I wouldn’t want to come in. I just don’t want to ruin the friendships, but I also don’t want the friendships to be contingent upon my being a patient.

        1. Thlayli*

          If you keep saying you will call him back then you are actually telling him that you do want to stay on as a patient.

          Just tell him you got a new doctor.

    2. Lillian Styx*

      It’s weird that they would pressure you into making an appointment if you don’t need to see a doctor?? Unless this is a routine kinda thing that everyone needs?? I know some areas like chiro can be pushy like this but if you don’t need it, you don’t need it!

      Can you say you don’t need the checkup? Began seeing someone closer to home? Have a family doctor you are more familiar with? Prefer the doc-in-a-box when you get sick?

        1. nonegiven*

          I think I’d start saying, “You know, the way I’m being pressured over this is really making me uncomfortable.”

    4. Cath in Canada*

      This is tough. In my last job, I worked with pretty much all the breast cancer doctors in town. After one meeting in which they were all driving me batty I got home from work and told my husband “if I ever get breast cancer, we have to move” – it would just be too weird. (My sister has it worse – she works with most of the gynecologists in London). I’ve always just assumed that the doctors would also find it weird and am a bit disturbed to find out that this isn’t universal!

    5. JustaTech*

      “Sorry, you’re not included under my insurance.” Needs to be true or true-ish, but is one they really can’t argue with.

      1. Just Another Anon*

        Except that they are on my insurance and they know it. The staff even joked the last time they called that they knew I still needed my annual visit because they looked at my insurance and saw that it wasn’t billed elsewhere. They are correct because I haven’t gone anywhere else [yet].

  99. Fresh Faced*

    Slow wait/ ghosting job rejections have been replaced with some rapid fire rejections this week -_-

    1. Delta Delta*

      I’m sorry you had that week. I had that week last week and it’s no fun. I even got 2 rejections while I was in the E.R. with an unsettling medical emergency. All I could do was laugh because I was pretty sure I had wronged the universe somehow.

    4. Fresh Faced*

      Thanks for the support =), super annoying because I was really on top of my applications this week and thought I had a good chance with the positions. Guess not =/

  100. Office Mercenary*

    Does anyone have experience or opinions about self-taught technical skills, especially through MOOCs and similar resources? I’m about to start a distance learning program through MIT and I’m interested in some of their MOOCs through EdX, which provide a certificate of completion if you finish a series of related courses. Microsoft also makes a series of data science MOOCs with their own certificate. Would it look amateurish to put these on a resume? How do hiring managers view these sorts of certificates?

    1. Jillociraptor*

      I don’t think self-taught is the issue, it’s whether you can prove that you’ve successfully implemented what you learned in a professional setting. We recently had a candidate with pages of MOOCs, classes, and seminars, but no evidence that he had ever actually used any of those skills professionally. In that case, it did look really amateur (especially because he had taken several courses in business writing and his cover letter was…not good). If you are able to show that you are effective at using the skills you learned, I don’t think most hiring managers would think twice about where you acquired them.

      Just to caveat, though, I don’t work in a field with technical skills like the ones you’re describing. Norms could be different for things like data science.

      1. Office Mercenary*

        What a fun username! :)

        I suppose this is where I’m stuck. I’m never really sure how to get out of the need-experience-to-get-experience cycle, especially if it’s not part of a current job. I’m trying to brainstorm projects I could do on my own but so far I’m coming up empty-handed.

        1. Jillociraptor*

          Is there anyone at your current job who does something similar to what you want to transition to? It might be worth seeing if you could contribute to a project in their area at some point soon.

          1. Office Mercenary*

            Unfortunately, I’m job hunting at the moment. These technical skills would be more of a long-term plan to get away from admin work and into something more analytical. A couple friends of mine do open source intelligence and invited me to write something for their magazine, and I could possibly apply a little of the data science/analytics there. As for the accredited MIT certificate in monitoring and evaluation, I’m still trying to brainstorm ways to practice those skills. Maybe doing M and E for smaller non profits?

  101. Voluntold Volunteer*

    Is it ever normal to not give a notice when you’re leaving a job? Are there industries where it’s done more than others?

    My friend has been in a pretty bad job situation for the past six months. She was in a sales role with the Old Company for 15 years and then moved to New Company six months ago because NC promised more money. She gets into her new role and two months in, the role she was hired for “disappeared.” She’s barely making enough money to pay her bills at this point. They’ve also failed to follow through on things they promised her when she was hired, so there’s that.

    She starts job searching and this week, is offered another sales job at Next Company. They want her to start on Monday. She asked my opinion. I said that typically a two week notice is the standard in my field, because it gives you time to wrap up any existing work within that time frame. However, given that she’s only been in her role for six months, she doesn’t have a ton of stuff to wrap up. Apparently, Next Company is pushing her to start on Monday and I said in my opinion, that would be a red flag from me.

    But is this normal for sales roles? I’ve never been in a sales role (other than a part-time retail gig) so I don’t know how normal is it.

    1. AnonforToday*

      If it’s an issue of not getting the new job and getting out, I think it should be okay. 6 months is a bit long to leave off a resume but if she doesn’t need them for a reference and never ever wants to go back to that employer, and can do well at her next place, the damage should be minimal. There’s a decent chance if she gives notice, they will walk her anyway. However, I do agree the immediate start push is a red flag. If there are any others I would push back for safety and reference preservation.

  102. Beezus*

    My other half had some weird developments at work this week!

    He supervises 4 hourly workers on a client’s site. He had a new person who started Monday to replace someone who left.

    On her first day, he learned that:

    His new hire is the stepsister of an old ex of his from 26 years ago. She was 10 or 11 when he was dating the ex, so he didn’t recognize her, although he remembers meeting a kid sister way back when. The new hire does not speak to her stepsister, and their parents are no longer married to each other.

    Also, his ex has a daughter that the ex claims is his. He doubts he is the father, but isn’t positive. He doesn’t want to know, at this point…it’s been 26 years. (I, on the other hand, am dying of curiosity!) The new hire apparently didn’t give him a lot of detail.

    His ex told her family years ago that he started working as a truck driver (?) and subsequently died in an accident. (She and the truth are strangers, that also had to do with why they broke up.)

    Nothing about his ex has come up since the new hire’s first day, and she’s a decent worker. He decided not to mention anything about it to his boss unless a problem develops – not sure that’s the choice I would have made, but he’s pretty firm about it. He would not have recommended her for hire if he realized their shared past when she interviewed, but since the hiring has already been done, he’s trying to make the best of it. Hopefully it all works out!

    1. Manders*

      WOW. Thank you for that story.

      It sounds like the new hire doesn’t have anything to do with the ex anymore, so I doubt this is ever going to affect their working relationship. And I doubt he actually has a secret daughter, since he isn’t also a dead truck driver.

      There was a thread a few weeks ago about compulsive liars. I’ve known a few and it can be weird and uncomfortable to know that someone’s concocting elaborate lies about you, but the best thing to do is stay far away and not engage with them at all.

      1. Gandalf the Nude*

        And maybe laugh privately because, wow, what a whackadoo! The Who’s afraid of Virginia Woolf? jokes are ripe and ready for picking!

  103. Margie*

    I work in a mostly male work place and my co-workers constantly bash former employees. Most of the people they bash are women, but it’s awkward because I’m new so I haven’t met any of these people. Plus, their comments have nothing to do with the former person’s work- it was the way the person looked, acted, etc. It makes me feel uncomfortable and I’m not sure what to say. How do I deal with this? Have I landed in a toxic work place?

    1. Clinical Social Worker*

      This sounds toxic and also maybe sounds like a hostile work environment. If they are constantly bashing women for their appearance, even if they don’t work there anymore, then I would think that would be an issue. This is definitely not normal. Maybe others can chime in as to whether this is really a hostile work environment, legally speaking.

    2. Hrovitnir*

      Ew. Even if not toxic (probably), that’s not… great. I don’t know how you deal with it, but my sympathies for hearing a continuous stream of negativity about people you don’t know that basically makes it sound like you’re continuously judged for how you look and act.

      I hope that doesn’t make you feel worse or more conspicuous, but that’s how I would take it.

    3. Gadfly*

      That would make me feel like they are mostly trying to indirectly put me on notice that this is what is expected of women at this business and that they are in a position to act like this toward women.

    4. Chaordic One*

      I think this is definitely a sign of a toxic work environment. When I was in a similar situation I kept my mouth shut and didn’t say anything. I just went about my business and tried to do my job as well as I could, pretending that I was oblivious to what was going on around me. I sometimes wish I had spoke up and said something like, “Oh, that isn’t very nice to say,” or something innocuous like that.

      Whatever you do, please don’t pile on. Don’t say anything negative about former employees, even if you can think of something witty and clever that might get a quick laugh or a chuckle. Even though it might be tempting to do so, it really isn’t worth it.

  104. Adelyade83*

    I work in business development in a rural Midwestern community and am planning an event for small business owners. The focus of the event will be on how to grow your small business. This is the first time I’ve hosted this type of event and one problem I am anticipating is the subject of prayer coming up. Religion is a large part of life for many people here. I am anticipating that someone, who is one of our more religiously outspoken business owners, will want to start the event in prayer. The organization I work for is in no way religiously affiliated and I do not want to bring religion into this event. Does anyone have advice on the best way to politely but firmly shut this business owner down if the topic comes up?

    1. Emi.*

      Have something else to start the event, and frame it so that you’re controlling all the starting activities. If it’s a sort of free-form “Okay, guys, let’s get it together,” it’s easier for someone to jump in with a prayer than if you get up and say “Everyone listen up; I’m about to go through the agenda” or whatever.

      2. justsomeone*

        Yeah, you could also have a welcoming activity that people are doing while they wait for the event to begin. “Hi welcome, here’s your name tag and ice breaker sheet. You’re supposed to talk to 10 people and ask about their business.” So that as people trickle in they’re already “busy” and then when the event actually starts you can just go “Okay, thanks for coming, it’s time to start the presentation….”

        1. ByLetters*

          If it does come up despite your best efforts — and the suggestions here are good ones! — just say “I’m reserving time for a moment of silent reflection at the end of the event instead, since I’d like to jump right in and start the program now!”

          And then have so much to discuss that you forget to do it. :)

    2. Thlayli*

      I think there’s two separate issues really – firstly some people may want to have a moment of prayer before they start a task, and secondly they want to do I think in such a way that other people feel obligated to participate in it. The first is totally fine, the second not so much.

      I once went to a (non-work) event where they held a moment of reflection and made totally clear that this was optional and anyone was free to choose not to be involved, and no specific religion was mentioned but I assume most religious people would have used the time to pray. If that is an option that might work. not sure how you would go about it at the start of a meeting though.

  105. JoAnna*

    I’m currently updating my resume. I’ve been at the same job for eight years but have had three different employers. I started with Crazy Teapots, Inc., and a few years later the product that I worked on was acquired by one of our clients, Cozy Teapots, Inc., and I was offered a job there as part of the acquisition (all my service hours for benefits purposes came with me). A few years after that, Cozy Teapots divested the division I worked in, which was purchased by a private equity firm and incorporated as a new company, Cheesy Teapots, Inc. (service hours also transferred).

    Throughout the changes my position and responsibilities have remained largely the same. Is there an easy/efficient way to reflect this on my resume other than having three different entries?

    1. Doe-Eyed*

      I have a similar situation, and on my resume I listed the job title on the leftmost side and then on the righthand side:

      Business 1 (2001-2005)
      Business 2 (2005-2007)
      Business 3 (2007-2009)

      And listed one of my skills as adapting to change, haha.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Could you do something like:

      Job Title
      2009-Present
      Current Company Name (fka Old Company 1; Old Company 2)

    3. Gadfly*

      Ugh–that reminds that I need to do that for OldJob. I never changed companies, but Teapots United became United Teapots and then United Teapots of State (because a Canadian company had United Teapots) And then changed to State Teapots United.

      Where it all was the same legal entity, I wonder if I could get away with just the starting and ending names?

  106. SnapCracklePop*

    Does anyone have general experience with unemployment? Long story short, the BF got fired from his old job. Boss said it wasn’t a good fit, wasn’t working out. It was out of nowhere, and he’d just gotten a pretty substantial raise. So of course, he filed for unemployment, drew for a few weeks, found a new job and kept trucking.

    Oldboss, however, noticed that his FB password got saved in the work computer like 2 months later. (He managed their admin page, and on Facebook there’s not a business sign in, you sign in with your personal account and access the business, etc, etc). So she signed into his acct, read back through weeks of personal messages to the day he got fired and was venting to friends about the company, got her feelings hurt, and then filed to contest the unemployment based on his negative attitude and “multiple” writeups.

    In it, she detailed several things that he’d been corrected on as part of day-to-day stuff (like oh, don’t send x form out, send y form out) as things he’d been disciplined for, and then claimed that these ALL had written warnings and that the reason she didn’t have them was that he somehow knew to steal the personnel file with all his stuff in it before she fired him with no notice?

    Like, I know these kind of hearings aren’t actual court, but do they have the discretion to be like “wow, you are so clearly crazypants” and deny the appeal?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      It varies by state, but in my state, that kind of appeal is decided by an employee of the unemployment office acting as an administrative judge, basically, and they are subject to review by the state judicial branch so must adhere to basic court-like rules, just more casually. Both sides would have a chance to put in documentation, your boyfriend would be able to tell his side of things, the employer would tell their side, and the judge would decide who is more credible. If they think the employer is lying about the actual reason for the layoff, they could absolutely deny the appeal.

      The details may vary state-by-state, but you have a right to due process when it comes to government benefits, so the basics are going to be more or less the same – right to submit evidence, right to testify, right to a neutral arbiter, and right to appeal to the judicial branch.

      1. MegaMoose, Esq*

        Also, it’s not up to the employer whether or not someone is eligible for benefits or not, it’s entirely whether they meet the eligibility definition in the statute. Since your boyfriend already got benefits, someone already decided that his account of what happened meant he was eligible. The internal appeal will just be reviewing that decision in light of the new “evidence” from the employer that your boyfriend’s initial application was incomplete or untrue.

    2. E*

      If she doesn’t have the written warnings available to present as her evidence, that makes her case pretty weak, if the hearing folks are competent at all. Possibly he can get her to verify that he was fired with no notice, then if she tries to say he stole his personnel file, it’d show her craziness.

      1. E*

        I didn’t realize that he’d already been awarded unemployment. It definitely looks bad on her that she didnt dispute his claim originally.

      2. SnapCracklePop*

        Yeah he was awarded unemployment and she contested it several weeks later after going through his personal messages, many of which she submitted as “evidence”… after texting up a storm to him and posting all over Facebook about it. Because she’s so upset about the messages, she wrote a very long letter (that we were sent a copy of) saying that he knew all along he was going to be fired because she wrote him up all the time for these various infractions, but he stole the personnel file so that he could file for unemployment.

        1. SnapCracklePop*

          Yes! He immediately changed his password and made it sign him out of everything. It was a very creepy feeling to know our personal stuff had been gone through. :\

          1. nonegiven*

            I hope he has a record of:

            >after texting up a storm to him and posting all over Facebook about it

    4. LQ*

      They actually can do to actual court depending on the state, but that’s usually several steps down the line.

      He got unemployment, and boss didn’t appeal then? There are limits on how long they have to appeal (this varies from state to state too). So they contested it and let’s assume it wasn’t late (they are technically hearings in my state but the judge is like, were you physically stopped from appealing by us? if not tough). It will usually go before someone either an in person or phone hearing. Your BF will have the chance to detail his case and so will the boss. Your BF should bring information, like “I never recieved a verbal warning or written warning.” “I just got a raise, here’s my pay stubs.” (that would be a good one if possible) The employer will (or won’t) bring information.

      The judge will absolutely be able to go WHOAH that’s…appeal denied. Mostly just appeal denied. (This depends GREATLY on your state, on where the burden is placed, and many other things.) The best thing for your BF to do is be calm, cool, factual, and give detailed answers to all the questions asked. Don’t hold back but don’t go into things like “Old boss got her feelings hurt”.

      Good luck!

  107. Resentful of lazy leaders*

    A few months ago, I changed roles within my very large organization (>75,000 employees) and am in a different office and business unit / function. While I really enjoy my new role, I cannot shake the resentment I have for my previous manager (and frankly, her manager for not addressing the issues). I still chat with my former co-workers on a friendly basis, as well as supporting on transitional client work. (The latter was initially required by my former grand-boss, but I continue because I want my former clients’ projects to be successful.)

    My old boss was toxic. Oblivious to how we work (though on projects, we had the same role and did the same job), hypocritical (and also hypercritical!), and all around ineffective. Clients have asked for her to be removed from projects, senior staff won’t work with her, junior colleagues hate working with and for her. While I’m told her manager is aware of the issues, nothing is done.

    I cannot let it go. I am so glad to be away from her, but frankly, I would have stayed on my previous team, in a role I really excelled in and was valued, if it weren’t for her. I resent that I felt I had to change because of lazy leadership and am afraid she’s going to continue to drive away good talent. Any tips how I can let this go?

    1. JustDoingIt*

      Ugh, don’t you hate that people like this somehow manage to stay on and even thrive in certain organizations? Well, many organizations, judging by what I hear from friends, acquaintances and strangers. Ha. I think it’s simple—put your mind on other things. If you find yourself feeling frustrated by some component of your new team/role, or missing something from your previous one, change your focus. I’m a meditator, so that’s my best advice. :) It sounds like your overall circumstances are good and you will likely excel on your new team as well! So let it go for your own good. Is it really that important?

    2. Garland not Andews*

      If you need that extra bit of help letting this go, check out your company’s Employee Assistance Program (EAP). Sometimes we need help from someone with better tools and strategies and that is what an EAP is designed for.

    3. Anon for this*

      I am in a similar situation. Although I wanted to leave for many reasons, I too had a manager like that. Everyone there could see she was a problem except the owners. This woman was just plain rude and passed work off to others on a regular basis. I had reached BEC stage with her and could barely look her in the face during my last few months there. I quit 2 weeks ago, have a better job, but I still am harboring bitterness over it, but I think in time this will fade. Poor managenent is what allows these people to destroy morale and forces good workers to leave. I miss my coworkers too but at the end of the day I know nothing I could have done would have changed the way that place was run. The owners did not seem to value me or my work but they were like that with most everyone, except rude manager of course. They can have her. In time our anger will fade. I just feel bad for my former coworkers who have to deal with her.

    4. Resentful of lazy leadership*

      Thanks everyone. It really bugs me that they lose good people because they’re afraid to do something about her. Grr

      Thanks for the advice!

  108. Currently a hiring manager*

    I just received a thank you note from a candidate that I recently interviewed, and one of the things they said is rubbing me the wrong way. They closed out their note with a comment that essentially said “after everything I’ve learned about your team during our interview, I think this position is a good fit for me”. I’m somewhat irritated by this comment because shouldn’t the trying to reinforce the message that THEY are the good fit for the job, not the other way around? Am I being weird here?

    1. Fronzel Neekburm*

      Part of the reason they are interviewing is to see if they’ll be a good fit for the culture there. It’s two ways. This is one of the things that has always bothered me about hiring managers, thinking that it’s a power dynamic where the hiring authority deems someone “worthy” of being hired. (not saying this is you, but your comment are part of that issue.)

      A good interview is a conversation: Are we getting along, can this person contribute, can we contribute to their growth? They may have gotten there, seem people in tuxedos, and realized they wouldn’t be a good fit because they like jeans. It’s a two way street.

    2. Gandalf the Nude*

      I think that’s a bit of a nitpick and maybe a teeeeensy bit entitled. As much as you want someone who’s a good fit on your end, you also want someone who sees your company and team as a good fit, who’s going to be excited to work with you. Basically, it’s their way of saying they’re very interested in the job. I wouldn’t write them off just because they’re not making it all about you.

      1. Currently a hiring manager*

        I totally agree that an interview process is a two-way street and that a candidate is evaluating the company as much as we are evaluating them. I think my reaction stems from my personal experiences as an interviewee, where it was drummed into me that a thank-you note is another opportunity to explain why you’d be a good fit for the job. It just felt like this was a tool not well-utilized. But I would never write off a strong candidate (and this person is a strong candidate) over how he worded his thank you note.

        1. Gandalf the Nude*

          Yeah, I think that’s a pretty narrow view on thank-you notes that you should try shaking. Thinking of the note as an opportunity to push your candidacy feels too similar to the other bad, sales-y advice you see about job searches. Sometimes it will make sense to do that, but it’s certainly not a hard and fast rule. All that should really matter with a thank-you note is if it was thoughtful, expressed interest, and didn’t raise any red flags. Unless there was something else before that closer that gave you pause, it’s probably a point in his pro column.

        2. Naruto*

          Well, they want to convey interest. But I also think you may be nitpicking the language a little too closely here, and I’m just not sure there’s really much difference between “I’m a good fit for the job” and “the job is a good fit for me,” particularly in an informal document like a follow-up note.

    3. CDN HR*

      you’re being a little weird. the hiring process should be two way street and this is a really small detail to get hung up on, they probably just had a weird way of wording it or you’re stressed out. Take a break, talk to other hiring managers, grab a coffee.

    4. Sadsack*

      Shouldn’t it be both? When you are the interviewee, aren’t you evaluating your potential manager, coworkers, and their work culture? If not, you should be.

    5. CG*

      Yes. I think it’s just another way of saying, “the information I received at the interview enhanced my enthusiasm for this role.”

    6. emma2*

      You are getting too hung up on language. When a job candidate says “this position is a good fit for me”, they ARE trying to communicate that they are mutually a good fit for the position, too. I used to use the two phrases synonymously (basically, if the job is a good fit for me, it automatically means I’m a good fit for the job.)

      Also, from the perspective of the interviewee, another reason they probably chose the wording they did is because they think it’s their role to determine if they want the job, and YOUR role to determine if they are a good fit for the job (does that make sense?) I used to think it would sound presumptuous to say “I’m a good fit for the role” because it would sound too aggressive like “You should hire me because I’m the best!” (I realize I am wrong but that was my initial instinct when I started job hunting.) In the end of the day, it’s up to the HM to decide if I’m the best fit for the job.
      Besides, don’t you want an employee who actually WANTS the job?

  109. anoncmntr*

    Hi everyone! I have a generic question, something that my husband and I don’t have much experience with (we’re both on our first jobs out of graduate school). He’s looking for a new position and I’m just wondering if we should expect that he’ll take a pay cut if we move away from the mid-sized coastal city we live in now to a smaller midwestern city, etc. Basically, if the cost of living is cheaper in the new town/city, should we expect that he’ll have to accept a lower salary? (Just FYI, I work from home, so my pay wouldn’t change).

    Generally, what would you look at (besides the merits of the job, company, location, etc., themselves) when it comes to compensation and benefits to know if the move is worth it?

    1. Fronzel Neekburm*

      Look for location, whether you’ll be happy in the area (are you happy in a small town? Do you want to live in a big down). Happiness is underrated when accepting a job.

      Look at cost of living and be REALISTIC about cost of living. If you get a lower offer to move to somewhere with a lower cost of living, what hidden costs are there? Is it a town so small you have to drive all 50 miles to go to the movies or leave the house? Thing as much through as possible.

      Also: Happiness doesn’t always equal money.

      1. anoncmntr*

        Thanks, your second paragraph is sort of what I was looking for. I’m really curious about how other folks do the math of comparing cost of living, paycheck, benefits, etc., across different geographic areas. Your questions in the second paragraph are what I’m trying to pose myself and then answer — I wanted some input on what to consider.

        We’re not looking at jobs in places we wouldn’t want to live or for jobs that he’s not interested in, we’re looking for a new place to be happy in and we know happiness doesn’t equal money.

      2. Manders*

        This is great advice. Also: now may be a good time to have a serious conversation about things you want in life 5/10/15 years down the road so you can start pricing those things out now. For instance: if you want kids, what does childcare cost in that area, and are you happy with the school system? If you want to travel, are you near a major airport, or will there always be extra logistical difficulty getting to the plane? If you want to buy a house, what do those cost in the new area, what square footage can you expect, and what condition are those houses in? What are your transit options? How far will your commute be and do you want your neighborhood to be walkable?

    2. Graciosa*

      The problem is that this isn’t a generic question. The real question should be “What is the market range for X job in [other location]?”

      I’ve run into situations where there are notable differences in salary for the same markets (beyond what could be explained solely by cost of living differentials), where there are only cost of living differentials, and where there are no real differentials at all (at least within CONUS). I can’t tell which of these will be these will be the case for your husband, but if you search on Alison’s guidance for researching market values for different positions, that may help you find the information you need.

      Best wishes.

    3. MegaMoose, Esq*

      In answer to your question, probably? It’s fair to say that jobs in the Midwest pay less than jobs on the coast, but not always and it depends on the city and the field and so on. Sometimes you get paid more to live in less desirable places if they’re desperate to get someone to fill the job. If it were me, I would take my budget and do some research on how it would translate. If I currently pay $500 in rent, what would I pay for an equivalent apartment there? How do gas/utilities/food prices line up? How much does it cost to go out to dinner? Cost of living is important, and even a pay-cut can might turn into a lifestyle raise when you figure out what percentage of your income is going towards necessities.

  110. M*

    So I’m a senior expecting to get my BA in June. My GPA is *just* below a 3.0, but I made the Dean’s List last quarter and have a general upward trend. (I had a really terrible freshman year). If I have a good spring quarter I may be able to push it past the 3.0.

    Is it worth it to put one quarter of being on the Dean’s list on my resume as a fresh graduate? Especially since I don’t have my GPA on my resume?

    1. CDN HR*

      Most people won’t really care either way unless you specifically know you should for the industry you’re applying to.

    2. Emi.*

      I think it probably won’t make a big difference. Is your major GPA higher than your overall GPA, though? You could put that on if you’re concerned.

    3. Rookie Biz Chick*

      I used to put my GPA for all major classes for a while, then omitted it completely after a year or so. I enjoyed more of the social rather than the academic aspects of my freshman year and graduated with a 2.8 ish overall, but 3.8 ish in major and minor classes. I recall being so worried about submitting transcripts with those first couple of job applications, but as CDN HR says, literally no one cared.

    4. SophieChotek*

      I don’t think the GPA matters on a resume. Every once in awhile I find it on a job application, and I find it quite odd.

      Admittedly, the idea seems to be == hard worker will get good grades, poor grades must mean slacker, but that so fails to take into account so many other factors, etc.

      I would leave it off personally. When you interview you’ll be showing what you can bring to a job.

      1. Bea W*

        I got horrible grades and dropped out of high school. I did get my GED and an undergrad degree, but school is not my thing. Working, on the other hand, I’m very good at that! The entire time I was failing miserably at high school, I was was working independently (literally alone, unsupervised by a real adult) in a small store. I was 16.

        1. SophieChotek*

          And that is why I think that is a dumb reason to ask for grades on applications/resumes. I think it prevents people (potentially) from getting a look if managers get too hung up on 4.0 — I know lots of people who are great workers but academic learning (especially the way it is taught in the US) just isn’t for them.

    5. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Leave it off; listing a Dean’s List commendation for one quarter would frankly make me wonder about why you didn’t make the list the rest of your career. (I wouldn’t even think about it if you didn’t include it. It’s not that it’s a problem that you weren’t a perfect student every term, it’s just that introducing one piece of information makes me curious about the rest of your grades/success.)

      For the same reason, I’d recommend against listing your major GPA, even if it’s really high. No GPA listed? I wouldn’t blink an eye. Major GPA only? I’d wonder why you included that, but not your full GPA.

      1. M*

        Thanks for the advice – I suspected as much. It’s still a little disappointing that I put the work in to make it from academic probation to such a good past quarter, and I can’t even show it on my resume, but what you said makes a lot of sense.

  111. Elli in Cali*

    Recently I told a coworker I couldn’t swap shifts with her because I had plans. She is dealing with an illness in the family that impacts her childcare situation. The truth is that I really dislike working with one of our coworkers on that shift, someone who has been hostile to me in the past and continues to be a jerk. On that shift it would be just me and this person. Is this a little white lie or should I have told her the truth? I’m feeling a little guilt about not being totally honest about why I wouldn’t swap.

    2. Gandalf the Nude*

      You did have plans: plans not to work with the hostile coworker. It’s kind of you to want to help the nice coworker, but you’re not obligated to do so when it would be a burden on you, even if your burden is comparatively lighter (though, honestly, this isn’t the misfortune olympics; you’re allowed to just not want to deal with a bully).

      1. SophieChotek*

        +1. You “can’t” is honest and truthful. Too often we feel we need to come up with a good reason (and I am as guilty of this trap as anyone.)

    3. Mimi*

      This is a healthy white lie.

      Yes does it suck your colleague nerds to change childcare due to illness (which could be serious or just be someone with a cold). But your health and wellbeing is important to. Explaining the truth is likely to cause more issues for you and drama if it gets back to your bully colleague. And frankly your colleague would probably prefer the white lie instead of potential work drama on top of childcare issues.

  112. RussianTea14*

    I decided to apply for an internal role last week. It would be a step up for me. Per our company policy, I had to share this with my manager. She was surprised but supportive.

    Fast forward to this week. She talked to her boss and they want to change my title to the same title I applied. This title comes with a pretty significant bump in pay. I told her I was very appreciative but that I wanted to keep all of my options open and learn more about the role I applied to. I have an interview next week.

    Any tips for navigating this smoothly?

    1. Mimi*

      Sounds like you are doing great already.

      Do your best in the interview but be sure to get a really clear idea of what the other role entails. Try to meet the person who might be your new line manager if you havent already as that is another part of it.

      Then decide which you want. If you go with the other role just tell your manager “I really appreciate your offer to increase my title to x but I want to go with this new position. I enjoy this role but am excited for an opportunity with more of x, y and z.”

  113. Treecat*

    I have a huge upcoming job interview–it’s an all-day thing (literally 8 am to 4:30 pm), including a presentation. I’m an internal candidate, and I just learned that there are four candidates for this position in total via an internal all-staff work email. I’m kind of freaking out. I really, REALLY want this job, and I’m very qualified for it, but of course all the other candidates surely are, as well! Sadly, this is also not the type of position where openings are often found. The last person in this position just retired, which is of course why it opened, and was there for over 30 years. I expect the new hire to be in the position for the majority, if not the rest, of their career as well.

    Anyone have any tips on dealing with nerves like this? I’m really not likely to have another opportunity for this type of job, at least not within another decade. It’s making it hard for me to prepare effectively, because of the stress, and that’s entirely counter productive.

    1. Caro in the UK*

      I wish I could offer constructive help, but I really just wanted to say good luck!

      I work in an industry where opportunities also often come only years, if not decades apart, so I really feel you and hope you get it :)

      The only advice I have is general nerves / anxiety advice, and that is just to accept that you’re nervous, it’s not going to go away, and you try not spend energy worrying about being worried!

  114. Amber T*

    I may have gotten someone in our vendor company fired/transferred/something, and it may not have been her fault.

    I think a lot of it centers around the fact that we don’t know who our correct contact in the company is, and we may have reached out to the wrong one during the stressful, time-crunch time. We have a “corporate contact” Jane who we’ve worked with for a while, but we had been introduced to Fergus who would help set us up for a specific new-to-us service. The service involves submitting information to the government, so due dates are very specific.

    So here’s the timeline. We began this process with Fergus in December, when it was a difficult time because I was out for surgery for two weeks, then it was the holidays, and my boss had some timing issues as well. We sent back what we thought was the necessary information in the beginning of December, he followed up and requested more we sent, and then we heard nothing during/immediately after the holidays, so we figured it was finalized. In the beginning of Feb, he emails us regarding information we had already sent, so we send again. We hear nothing.

    Two weeks later, he sends an email that he will be out of the office for a few weeks to deal with a personal matter (death in the family), so Sally will take over. Sally follows up requesting the same information we had already sent in twice. So we send again, a bit annoyed but given the circumstances, we’re understanding. I follow up with Sally with a question regarding the service but never hear back. Boss says it’s no big deal, so we proceed.

    So we have specific stuff that’s due 3/1 (Wednesday). The Friday before, we send an email to Sally, cc’ing Fergus, asking if we’re set to go for Wednesday. We don’t hear anything. On Tuesday, we start scrambling because WE forgot something (totally our fault), and Sally is great at assisting during the day until 5pm, when we get an automatic email saying she has left the office for the day – I don’t fault her for leaving after her hours end, but it really threw us off and we would have appreciated a note a bit earlier saying “just a heads up, I will be leaving at 5pm.” The things we had been working on Tuesday end up being filed on time, and all is well, or so we think.

    A few days letter, we get a notice saying that we’re not in good standing on certain forms regarding the stuff we sent in December-February. We’re floored because we had provided that information weeks ago. We reach out to Fergus (who had returned) and Sally the day of, don’t hear anything. My boss follows up two days later, we hear nothing. I follow up with an email and a call to Sally, we hear nothing. We have no way of checking, but my boss assumes it was taken care of (really, other stuff of super importance came up and this got pushed to the backburner).

    Earlier in the week, Fergus emails us and requests a call with my boss and me, including Sally and Jane. We respond with a couple of questions, including the status of the above, and Fergus pushes back saying “we’ll discuss live on our call, Sally and I can answer all of your questions.” So we schedule the call for the next day. About an hour before the call, Fergus emails us and says Sally stepped out to deal with a personal matter and will not be participating in the call.

    So the call proceeds and we find out our information had not been filed because we had not activated the service, because we had not asked to activate the service. We’re floored, because between the dozens of emails before the stuff is supposed to be filed confirming that they’ll handle it (which, we realized to late, we never got the confirmation from them) and the many attempts at a follow up, we have no idea why they think we didn’t ask. Jane swoops in and promises to handle everything quickly (she does!), but Fergus is full of roundabout talk and sidestepping questions – he repeats “I have no idea why Sally didn’t respond” and the like, when he was cc’ed on all the emails as well and could have responded. He promises to check with Sally as to why things didn’t happen. We get an email the next day saying that “Sally is no longer on Fergus’s team” and we won’t have to work with her any longer.

    I’m not saying Sally is perfectly in the clear (and to that point, neither are my boss or I), but I’m thinking the blame lies mostly with Fergus. I don’t fault Fergus for having to leave during his time of need, but it sounds like he dropped the ball on his return and threw Sally under the bus. I have no idea what Sally’s status is with the company. In hindsight, Jane should have been looped in on everything (no idea why she wasn’t, and I have no idea why Fergus didn’t point us in her direction with our millions of questions).

    Basically my question is – what can I do, if anything? I hate that we have to work with Fergus… unfortunately, I am the point person BUT I get no say in that. Based on his actions, it sounds like Fergus is the sales guy and isn’t the one who implements things (which is fine, but this was NOT clear from the beginning). My plan is just to cc Jane on everything going forward, because it sounds like she had no idea what was happening with Fergus/Sally. Comments? Ideas?

    1. Temperance*

      Wow. I personally would want Fergus fired, not Sally! It totally sounds like he threw her under the bus to cover his own ass. I wouldn’t trust him at all, since he clearly scrwed the pooch.

      Do you have any ability to discuss the truth of the matter with Jane? I would want to.

      1. Amber T*

        In our call (before we were notified that Sally was no longer around), my boss had requested that they figure out with Sally what exactly had happened, and that he didn’t necessarily need to be informed as to what happened, but that he wanted to ensure this situation wouldn’t happen again. I think my boss is less concerned with whose fault it is and took what Fergus said at face value, and just want to make sure the vendor does what it says it will (for what it’s worth, any late fees/penalties we were charged, they said they will absorb – something we’ll need to double check on our invoices when we receive).

        I want to follow up with Jane separately and basically figure out what responsibilities belong to whom, but this is a new responsibility on my end, so while I’m handling most of it, my boss wants to be cc’ed on everything as well. I think there was a huge communication problem on their side and between us and them, but I think there are also communication issues between myself and my boss (which is a whole ‘nother story…).

    2. Observer*

      You didn’t get anyone fired. If Sally was fired, it wasn’t your doing in the least bit.

      But, I would never trust Fergus on anything. Keep looping Jane into stuff, and any time you need a response from Fergus, set up a calendar reminder to check back with him. And never assume that something was taken care of. ALWAYS get a confirmation from him. Same trick with the calendar reminder.

      1. Amber T*

        “You didn’t get anyone fired. If Sally was fired, it wasn’t your doing in the least bit.”

        It’s one of those things that I KNOW, but I still feel guilty over. I think everyone screwed up at least a little bit in this situation. It’s hard not knowing what happened, even if it is technically none of my business.

        Jane is going to be cc’ed on everything going forward. I’m hoping to set up a call/meeting with her, I just have to check with my boss first.

        1. Gadfly*

          Are you sure Sally was fired? At OldJob sometimes assistants would just be swapped around so someone could be thrown under the bus in sacrifice to the angry customer god.

    3. Rat in the Sugar*

      It sounds like Sally didn’t do that great of a job herself, but either way I wouldn’t worry about her employment status–you have no way of knowing, and even if you could find out you wouldn’t have any idea if any discipline she experienced was just because of this or due to a larger pattern in her work.

      Also, I would definitely ask to be assigned to somebody else. I had to do that with one of our vendors that we do a great deal of work with; my POC was absolutely dreadful and non-responsive. After asking for a new one, we now have a friendly and helpful support person who answers emails in the same day and actually listens to us when we talk. Maybe you can ask to communicate just with Jane from now on?

      If you don’t have a way to request a new person, then I would go with your plan of just CC’ing Jane every time. They’ve clearly got communication issues there, so I would just put her on absolutely everything from now on just to be sure.

      1. Amber T*

        This is where we get confused, because we have no idea who is supposed to do what on their end.

        For background – we had been working with the company (Jane specifically) to help us prepare forms that we would file ourselves. The new service (where Fergus comes in) is that not only will they prepare the forms, they’ll file on our behalf (then charge us later). I was brought into this project later, and Fergus was the only one we were (originally) working with. This is where there might be some bad communication between myself and my boss – I don’t know if Fergus ever explained his role to my boss, but it was certainly never explained to me.

        I’d love to request working with a new person, but unfortunately it’s out of my power. Boss says to just keep working with Fergus until it’s fixed and complete, so that’s what I’ll do (begrudgingly).

        1. Rat in the Sugar*

          Uuuugh. I’d definitely CC Jane on everything. Personally, I’d start CC’ing your boss on everything too–if she sees what a damn hassle Fergus is, with the way he asks for info multiple times and never passes on information, she may relent and request a new person.

        2. nonegiven*

          I’d forward Jane every previous email to Fergus or Sally, especially the ones containing information that was asked for more than once. Then ask for Jane to personally handle everything from now on.

    4. Thlayli*

      If it just said “sally is no longer on fergus’s team” then to me that sounds like she was transferred not fired.

      1. Gadfly*

        Just what I was thinking–OldJob would rearrange assistants so as to make a token showing of someone getting in trouble for it and to save face for the Sales Reps.

  115. SingPlayLive*

    Anyone in a public institution (e.g. public library, parks & rec, etc.) have experience with male customers ogling staff? There is no HR department, so department heads are on their own to deal with this stuff. If sexual language were the problem, we could document it, tell the person to stop, then ban them of they don’t, but how do you prove someone is looking at another in a sexual way? It seems like we could follow the same process as verbal inappropriateness, but then again, it doesn’t.

    1. Sugar of lead*

      Try calling them out on it in the moment if it’s something obvious–eg. MY EYES ARE UP HERE, only with more tact–and see how they react.

    2. Gandalf the Nude*

      I’m not in any of those, but going by some previous letters, I’d say don’t make it sexual. Focus on the staring itself. Tell the customers that the staring is making staff uncomfortable and to please knock it off. If it continues, ask them to leave.

    3. animaniactoo*

      Eh. It doesn’t even have to be in a sexual way to be an issue. “Sir, please don’t stare at the staff, they/we/I find it very uncomfortable. When interacting with the staff, please make sure to focus on their face.”

      Beyond that, everybody in a customer facing position has to deal with people who give them the creeps. It unfortunately comes with the territory. You can’t ask more than that they don’t stare when not interacting and that they look at someone’s face when they are (if they’re looking at them – there are some people who are uncomfortable with eye contact, but they’re generally not looking at other body parts, so I would be clear about that distinction in terms of “look at their face”).

    4. kb*

      This was retail instead of a public institution, so that probably changes some stuff, but a manager of mine in college was really good about handling it. I think the most important thing she did (from my perspective as the person being ogled) was being really quick to notice it happening and take over what I was doing so I could head to the back or somewhere out of the customer’s sight. She had this insane ability, though, to just look at someone in a specific, knowing way and make them die inside. There weren’t any repeat oglers with her there.

  116. Sibley*

    I keep running into office politics this week. I hate politics. I’m not good at politics. Where I work, there’s a ton, and I know it, but if they want me to do this one piece of my job, then for heaven’s sake, get out of the way and let me do it. I’m seriously considering asking to stop doing this stuff because of it. Which is huge, because I’m really good at it, and I like it. But I’m getting so tired of the politics.

  117. Sparkly Librarian*

    Eeeeeeeeee! I got the transfer! I’m going to be a Chocolate Teapot Wrangler sometime before the school year ends. After being notified of that, I disclosed my waiting-for-adoption status to the new manager and got a very professional and supportive response, so I’m feeling good about that.

    I am super excited and looking forward to it, but I am not unaware of the challenges this new position will bring. It’s a smaller location, for example, and I will be in charge of all the onsite Chocolate Services, without the level of day-to-day support I’ve enjoyed as a Caramel Teapot Wrangler at a larger office. Time to step it up! Also there is little to no privacy, which does not gel with my working style (although it’s pretty typical for most locations). I jokingly said that I might have to hide in the supply closet a couple times a day to get a breather and work on off-desk stuff… but that honestly isn’t sounding like a terrible idea. Anyone have tips on carving out head-down work time without a dedicated desk/computer or a door to close? I still have to be responsive to the public most of the time, so most of the solutions from the manager-with-many-emails post earlier this week are out.

    1. Nethwen*

      If your job is anything like a librarian whose only “office” is the public desk and whose boss objects to scheduling and enforcing off-desk time, I sympathize. Things I did when in that position were to ask someone to cover the desk so I could work on a project for an hour and then take a laptop into the public meeting room to work (the only somewhat private place), to ask for a schedule where I worked a few hours each week when the library was closed, and to leave the building/sit in my car during my breaks. Sometimes I would even go shelve for a while, just to get some down time. Planning pathfinders/displays/reading lists is also a good way to be able to wander the stacks and clear your head while also doing legitimate work.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      See if there is a conference room you can work in. Take a lap top, schedule an hour and close the door. Depending on the culture, you can probably ask someone else to take point. My boss does this with me erratically. She’ll tell me to run interference, so that she’s not bothered for an hour or two.

      Alternatively, see if someone will help you get some down time. I work 75% at a public facing desk, but 10 hours a week a colleague comes in and takes point so I can slip into a quiet space and work on projects that I need quiet space to work on.

  118. Dr. Bom*

    So I’ve had a frustrating week. My manager is leaving, and as a result, he’s been out basically all week. There has been very little messaging from the higher-ups as to what’s going to happen with my department. He’s in this afternoon, and I’ve heard rumours and unofficial information about who my new manager is going to be, but the lack of guidance has been incredibly frustrating. Do I talk to HR? Do I talk to my outgoing manager? Do I talk to the person who I think is going to be my new manager?

    I’m at a loss

    1. animaniactoo*

      If your manager is in, talk to him and ask if they know if anything’s been confirmed about what’s happening with the department.

      Otherwise, there’s rumors, but the company is probably still figuring it out. Head down and wait it out is your best option unless it goes on for longer than another week – at which point, you could ask boss’ boss if they have any information they can share.

  119. Lizabeth*

    Send good thoughts out to the universe for me…just applied for two positions close to home. One is 2 miles away which makes it a walk or bike on nice days. The other is 8 miles away which translates into a 20 minute drive. Either is much better than an hour bus ride one way :)))))) Now to find my portfolio…

    Just applying has improved my mood…WOOT!

    1. Amber T*

      Yaaaay good luck!!! Commuting (or really, not commuting) is such a big deal for me. I currently live ~3miles from work (I really should bike or walk, I’m lazy). But it’s so nice leaving work and being *home* right away. Hardly ever traffic to deal with, no trains or buses. I leave work, and then I’m home. It’s a wonderful thing :) Sending good thoughts your way!

  120. Bad Candidate*

    I had an interview yesterday that I think went really well. I’d like to send the hiring manager a thank you. The problem? Well she never actually introduced herself to me. I knew I’d be meeting with the HR person, but I didn’t know about the hiring manager until the HR person asked me if I had time to meet with her. I said sure and she went to go get the manager. She never said “BC, this is Kate” nor did this person say “Hi, I’m Kate” nothing like that. I was able to find the manager on LinkedIn so I know her name, but she has it listed on LI as Katherine. I don’t know if she goes by Katherine or if she goes by Kate. I found her Facebook profile thinking maybe it would be different or someone would call her by Kate or something that would tip me off but that was a bust. I emailed the HR person a thank you and asked how the manager prefers to be addressed, but haven’t gotten a response yet. I do have a friend that works at the company and asked him, but he doesn’t work with her and doesn’t know either way. Her email address is in the format of kjones@company.com so that’s no help either. What do you all think I should do?

    1. Gandalf the Nude*

      Just open with good morning/afternoon/evening. She probably won’t even notice. Make a point, though, to include other details in the note that make it clear you’ve not just sent a completely generic thank you note and you do know you’re talking to K. Jones at Teapots, Inc.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Katherine. That’s what’s listed on her LinkedIn. Don’t assume a nickname– you’re much better off assuming the full name!

    3. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Would Ms. Jones look super out of place? It’s a little more formal than usual, but I can’t see it being held against you.

      1. Bad Candidate*

        I think it would, this is a really laid back, relaxed type place. It’s a dot com, though well established, no longer a startup.

        1. MegaMoose, Esq*

          Fair enough. I’d go with Gandalf’s advice then, or skip the salutation entirely. I feel like salutations in emails are inherently kind of formal.

    4. KAG*

      Katherine. It’s how she introduces herself (LinkedIn is an introduction, in my opinion), and suggests that this is the name she expects to be addressed by.

      This is a personal pet peeve of mine: I’ve been nicknamed without my consent in the past (think Kathy, not Kate; I find the latter even more disrespectful because of the diminutive) and have enjoyed them flinch when I respond “Pleasure to meet you too, Johnny.”

      1. Bad Candidate*

        Yep, this is exactly what I was thinking. I have a friend named Donna-Marie. You can call her that or DM but call her Donna and you will piss her off. :)

    5. Amber T*

      Yep, go by Katherine for the time being. If/when you start working there and she tells you “Oh, I go by Kate!” or another nickname, then switch it up. But if she has on LinkedIn “Katherine,” that’s what I’d go with (I wouldn’t bother with what it says on Facebook or other social media – she might go by her full name professionally and a nickname socially).

  121. Velociraptor Kitten*

    After reading today’s update about the employee who was bright and talented, but overly pushy (and got fired for going too far), I thought I’d ask the commentors here for advice because I know that I can be kind of a “Sarah”. I’m nowhere near as over-the-top as she is (I’d never send an email asking my boss’s boss to fire my boss!) but I work in a similar organization to the LW, and the post felt like an eerie echo of feedback I’ve gotten. Basically, a lot of my evals have been “you’re unusually bright and talented for a Junior Teapot Specialist, but need to focus on being less aggressive in meetings, learning professional norms for interacting with teammates and supervisors, and being able to back down when you disagree with others in our office”.

    I know on my end this is because I’m extremely impatient and can be judgmental regarding people I perceive as less intelligent than I am. I get frustrated when people can’t clearly explain their justification for doing something, and my worries about giving incomplete or even wrong advice to clients make me quick to shut others down if I fear they’re going down that path. These things are all totally on me, especially my really prejudiced notions about intelligence. But I also find them much harder to work on than any other feedback I’ve gotten. Has anyone been me and managed to turn this around? What helped for you? (I have started taking yoga classes to work on mindfulness! But I feel like there’s also office-specific stuff I can do.)

    Oh, and also yes, I am female, although I identify as nonbinary. I know this type of feedback is often applied in a sexist way, but I am fairly convinced this is about me and not my gender (or how others perceive my gender) for a variety of reasons. So I would really appreciate if you could assume that there’s truth to the feedback I’ve gotten, and it’s not about sexism. Thank you!

    1. animaniactoo*

      The thing is that you can’t just “quit” that energy and impatience, so what you need to do is channel it somewhere and work to change some of your perceptions.

      Channeling: Instead of knocking ideas down, work *with* the idea – even if you think it’s leading down a bad path. Here’s why you want to do that:

      • There may be factors you haven’t considered that might be unearthed through further discussion.
      • By supporting it with a “Are you concerned about X factor”, “Do you think Y would be a problem with that?” or “How could we address Z which may be a problem if…” you are contributing to the team brainstorming and pushing other people to have better critical thinking skills/take note and internalize things that you happen to see much more quickly. In this way, it helps create a better middle ground between you guys, in a way that helps all of you improve – especially because there are likely to be times that YOU are the one who has failed to consider something, so creating that space/process benefits you as well.
      • You change your aspect from “abrasive” and “downer” to “troubleshooter”.

      Yes, it may take longer to get there this way – but that will happen *sometimes*, not all the time. So take particular note of the times when it worked out better than you expected. Doing that is part of changing your perception, which is the biggest key to all of this. You want to fight against your own confirmation bias.

      As part of that on the perception front:

      • Remind yourself that your co-workers have value or they would not be there.
      • Therefore, it is up to you to find the value in them, what are their strengths? Some people are book-smart and some people are people-smart or street-smart. So their plans and evaluations likely are incorporating those skills. Your goal is to see where they are bringing that to the table because you are lacking some of that in what you’re bringing to the table. So you look for it so that you can appreciate it. Slow yourself down to look for it.

      The more value you see in your colleagues, the easier it is to respect them and have more patience and work with them when they’re doing things like having problems explaining their justifications.

      1. Velociraptor Kitten*

        Thank you, this is super helpful! I really like the suggestions about how to word things in a more constructive way. I bet I’ll get more useful information and learn more, too.

      2. Gadfly*

        Going down that road, however, be careful to not to then become the person who has the reputation of “taking over”

        I don’t know how much is me and how much was OldJob dysfunction, but I never quite figured out how to do that. Hopefully others here have some suggestions?

    2. Temperance*

      This is something I struggle with, too, FWIW. If you’ve read Divergent, I’m an Erudite. I’m a total Sarah, too, although maybe not quite as bold.

      What helped me change my ways was realizing that being right is great, and being smart is great, and being both right and smart are great things, but realistically, someone who is nice and also wrong is probably going to advance faster and be seen in a more positive light. I personally saw this firsthand where my horrible boss favored my coworker who sucked at our job over me, even though he couldn’t retain information and had to constantly be retrained on basic things, she openly preferred him and gave him plum opportunities.

      I also look at it this way: if someone is going to get assy about getting feedback or is willing to give bad information to clients, I will let them fail unless I know they want me to help. It’s not helping my career to stick my neck out and be known as the office weirdo.

    3. Jules*

      I’d encourage you to read : How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie. I borrowed the original audio book from the library and it was really an eye opener. I think we all have a little of Sarah in all of us. But how we convey the information makes the difference between getting things done or getting it shut down. I have a very direct personality and has some abrasiveness that needs polishing in the current environment I am in. In order to influence senior management, I find Carnegie’s method very useful.

      1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        Me too – been working on that in my current job. Its been very helpful to have a manager who more or less is a huge advocate of “did you talk to them?” because in the past no one ever pushed me to confront face to face with people! So its actually driven me to cool my jets and soften things up – to take a step back and see the whole picture before I go off half-cocked (because ultimately if I have a problem and bring it to her its going to be the “did you talk to them” and well, its easier to try and head it off at the pass). Its made a huge difference in both my stress levels and in winning a very difficult project director over.

        I do have that book, but its in a box in another location :(

    4. Bye Academia*

      I struggle with this too. I can’t say I’m perfect now, but I have improved significantly.

      What has helped me is to force myself to think of other reasons something isn’t getting done or done right. Fergus filled out the report wrong? Maybe he was swamped with other emergencies that day and did it in a rush. Maybe I didn’t communicate how I needed it done clearly enough. Maybe he’s going through a tough time right now and he’s distracted. Basically just giving people the benefit of the doubt. It has also helped to keep in mind that I have made plenty of work mistakes in my life and fixed or learned from them. Being intelligent doesn’t prevent you from doing things wrong from time to time.

      As for disagreements, I have made a conscious effort to listen more before I speak. Growing up I always wanted to be seen as “the smart one” and would try to jump in with an answer or quip. But when I saw other people do it, I realized how annoying that is. It doesn’t make me look like I’m smart, just like I’m a pain. Plus, if I wait to jump in, it’s possible that the person who is speaking will point out something I haven’t thought of. If I still think they’re wrong when they’re done, giving myself a little time can help me word my alternate opinion or ask follow up questions more calmly.

      All this is easier said than done, and takes both time and practice. I still find myself rolling my eyes internally, and some people are just less effective at their job than others. But interactions with colleagues go much more smoothly if you approach them from a place of kindness. Even if you can’t turn off your underlying thoughts, you can work towards getting yourself a better result. Good luck!

    5. J-me*

      >>I’m extremely impatient and can be judgmental regarding people I perceive as less intelligent than I am.

      I’m wondering whether it might help to think about this differently. Not to be rude, but when you have a feeling that you’re more intelligent that someone, are you sure you’re right? The thing is, people are intelligent in different ways.

      I once worked for a musical theatre company, and I remember hearing a staff member denounce our head sound person (behind her back) as “granola.” (The H of S wasn’t as much of a gearhead as some sound technicians, and was known for describing and doing things in more esoteric ways.) However, some time later, the local paper wrote an article about oour head soundperson, and about how she has Synesthesia (when she hears music, she sees colors), and how she uses that in her work. As it turned out, many people thought she was an excellent soundperson with a unique gift and approach.

      Perhaps it would help to question that judgement of intelligence when it bubbles up? Also, keep in mind that someone just as intelligent as you, or even more intelligent, might not be as articulate. And some people just take longer to process new information.

      1. Velociraptor Kitten*

        Oh, yes, totally agreed! I am sorry if that was unclear. That’s what I meant when I talked about my “prejudiced notions about intelligence”. I DEFINITELY don’t really think I’m more intelligent than other people, but I think I’ve been somewhat conditioned to feel that way. I guess I’m just trying to figure out how to constructively respond to that knee-jerk reaction I have, especially when I NEED to respond to something in the moment.

        2. Rocky*

          If the problem is really that you’re trying to control a knee-jerk reaction in the moment, what works for me is to recognize that I’m having a knee-jerk reaction, but then ask person a leading question like, “Oh, I hadn’t thought of that. Can you tell me more about what you’re thinking?” Their response gives me enough time to listen, collect my thoughts, and respond more appropriately when they’re done.

    6. CM*

      I think an in-person training program on emotional intelligence, effective communication, or a similar topic that involves relationships with coworkers could really help you. The programs that I have seen are typically 1-2 full days. They typically involve not just somebody talking at you, but also role-plays and other types of exercises that make the concepts hit home a lot more effectively. Since you have gotten formal feedback about this, I would ask your boss if they would support you going to a program like this and if they know of anything relevant.

    7. Thlayli*

      I read a great book called “emotional intelligence” by Daniel Goleman which really helped me see why people behave in certain ways. If made me a lot more forgiving of some things I had previously seen as just people being idiots. I now realise they’re not being idiots they are just being people. So that is another good book to look at.

      When people are saying things and you just want to jump in and move things along (WHY do people insist on talking so slowly!) then a great thing to do is to literally bite your tongue. Or count to ten (or 60). I also find writing down what they are saying is really helpful because it stops me from interrupting and also gives me notes to come back to afterwards.

  122. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    For Harry Potter readers–remember how Harry became Quidditch team seeker initially by getting in trouble for flying his broomstick unattended, his skills were marveled at and McGonagall set him on the path for sports success?

    Something similar happened to me this week (made an honest mistake that attracted the teapot leadership dept’s attention, then “wow you have skills.” Anyone with a similar “weird way I got promoted/found my job/luck story”? It’s not a conventional “I applied.” Does anyone have words of wisdom? Thanks <:)

    1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      At my old job, my office was down the hall from a specialty program at this university. My boss used to work with the specialty program, retired, then got bored and hired on to my old job. My boss retired for real one summer and two weeks later I saw a job posting for the coordinator position of the special program. I went down to see the coordinator to find out why her job was listed and received a rousing chorus of “Oh, thank God you came down here!” from several people. Turns out my recently retired boss had suggested me for the job without mentioning it and the director wanted to ask me to apply but didn’t feel it was appropriate to email me using campus servers or interrupt me while I was working in the other department.

      Basically, my nosiness into why the coordinator was leaving her job after 15 years was what got me her job. LOL

    2. Red Reader*

      I’ve told this story here before, but I got cold-called (totally out of the blue, I never even set foot in the temp agency for an interview or anything) to work as a temp at the Biggest Teapot Factory In The State doing basic teapot handle gluing, despite being a certified teapot designer for six years with a degree in teapotology. I was supposed to be there for 3-4 months initially, but the Glue Manager adored me and kept me even after the person who’s maternity leave I was covering came back. Finally, I got tired of gluing, did a couple of interviews, and got an offer for a temp-to-hire painting position at another teapot factory that would use my education and certification, so I girded my proverbial loins and went in to tell the Glue Manager that I would be giving the temp agency my two weeks’ notice, but that I wanted to tell her myself rather than have her get it from them. I expected her to tell me good for me, have a nice life.

      My brain literally made the record scratch noise when instead, her response was “I would hate to lose you. Can I try sending your resume to the Painting Team at Biggest Teapot Factory In The State (That Is Also Nationally Acclaimed) to see if we can beat the other offer with a direct hire position instead?” I was standing under the monorail station in front of the Magic Kingdom when I got the offer, which blew the other offer out of the water, and I’ve been promoted at Biggest Teapot Factory in the State twice now and am in early stages of management.

      1. Red Reader*

        And I first got into Teapot Designing by accident too — I was hired as a temp for a short-term project cataloging painted teapots, the guy who had the Teapot Organizing job quit at the end of my first week, and I ended up Teapot Organizer, but the Teapot Department was intended for five Designers and they only had two, so I picked up a lot of Design work over time and finally the other Designers told our manager to just send me for my Design Certification because clearly I had a head for Teapot Design.

    3. Hellanon*

      The role I’m in now just sort fell into my lap – it started with an email asking me to do some editing/technical writing, which grew into a larger role, and when my boss decided to retire she asked me if I’d like to move into her position full time. I will take credit for having taken all the steps that led to a) getting asked to do the initial project and b) being a pretty quick study, but really, it was serendipitous in a way I couldn’t have predicted or made happen on my own.

  123. Arts Manager*

    Wish me luck! I have an interview this afternoon to replace my recently departed boss. I know everyone on the interview committee and It’s become quite clear that she wasn’t really honest about the state of things – budget/program numbers/overall department health. Any tips to address this if it comes up? This person is seemingly well liked. I’m interviewing with people that know her (and me). I don’t plan to open that door – but a big part of my current job dissatisfaction was/is her inability to have a difficult conversation, and the complete lack of vision for the past two years. I’m in a weird academic/non-profit hybrid sort of a role.

    2. CM*

      Good luck! I think you can say you’re concerned about the health of the department, explain why using objective facts (e.g., teapot production has dropped by 12% over the past year), and talk about your vision and your plans for improving things. Just focus on what you will do, and avoid talking about her at all.

  124. nom*

    I’m looking for advice on how to answer the “why are you leaving your current job?” question when it comes up in interviews and/or networking. Especially in the context of moving to a new place.

    My current job is great: interesting work, excellent coworkers and environment, and nice opportunities for professional development. I don’t know that I’d want to stay here forever, since opportunities for advancement are somewhat limited. However, if it were just me I’d probably be planning on staying at least another year or two before looking around even causally.

    But my partner is miserable living in this town (we moved here when I got this job about a year and a half ago), and it’s also a poor fit for him career-wise: no opportunities in the field that his past 10 years of experience (and masters degree) are in, so he’s ended up doing contract work in an adjacent field, but he hates it and the pay is crummy. I’m not a huge fan of our current town, but having a good job here makes it a lot more tolerable. If I were in his shoes, I’d be itching to move on too.

    So now I’m looking at jobs in other places that would be a better fit for us — all of which are out of state. We’re not looking to go back to where we lived before moving (other side of the country). I feel like if we were move back there, it’d be easy to say something like “oh, it was nice living here before and I’m excited to move back, and this looks like such a great opportunity…” and then I could just talk about particular elements of the job itself that are appealing to me. But since we’re trying to move somewhere new, I’m struggling with how to phrase things.

    Basically, when your most honest answer to “What could your current employer do to keep you?” is “Invent a teleporter, so that I can live somewhere else,” what should you say instead?

    1. Bad Candidate*

      I would just say that you moved for your partner’s career, and leave it at that. It’s a fairly common reason to move/leave a job. They don’t have to know that your partner doesn’t have a new job lined up (assuming that’s so), it’s still true since you’re moving due to career opportunities for them.

    2. Biff*

      It is tougher since you aren’t moving back to someplace you’ve been, but that also gives you the ‘new and exciting’ angle. There are some other options too, though. Some possibilities that come to my mind:

      “When I moved to Pleasant Dell, we’d anticipated staying there for a long time, but we found we really missed having access to the lake/real barbecue/cow tipping/fresh sushi. We felt the opportunities here in YourTown are very similar to what we enjoyed in FarOffCity and we think this would be a great change of pace for us since we’d like to stay in GeneralRegion.”

      or the more ‘power’ language some expect:

      “We’ve seen a lot more career opportunities for both of us in YourTown and feel a bold move is the right strategy for us.”

    3. animaniactoo*

      I think it’s fine to be honest “The area that I’m currently living in is great for my career, but not for my husband’s. It’s been worse than we thought it would be when we moved there, so we’re being careful about our search to make sure we’ll enjoy the location and there will be solid opportunities for both of us. [This location] has a lot of opportunities in both our fields, like this position with you that…”

    4. ByLetters*

      Keep it simple — when I moved states, I literally just said that I was moving to be with my spouse. They don’t need to know the gory details of why your spouse wants to move! People accepted that perfectly well for me.

    5. Thlayli*

      I think it’s perfectly acceptable to say you want to relocate for family reasons. I think that’s probably one of the better reasons for leaving a job actually.

      1. Thlayli*

        I wouldn’t get into too much detail unless they ask though. And if they do just be honest. Don’t know why they would want extra detail though.

  125. Elizasaurus*

    Anyone have any tips for dealing with imposter syndrome a few years into your job?

    For context: I’m almost 2 years into a job I’ve by all accounts kicked ass at. My boss has explicitly said I will always have a job as long as he’s around. There have been some not so subtle poaching attempts by other people in our industry. I recently got a raise and a title change and generally everything points to me being a valued employee.

    I think it’s because I’m in a stressful part of the year (planning two events in less than a month and a half, along with having a whole new aspect of my job dumped in my lap) but lately I’ve been second guessing every decision I’ve made for the past several weeks and worried myself into knots over everything. I keep thinking I’m going to get fired, even over stuff that is out of my control, or really minor stuff. When our numbers our down, no matter the outside factors, I assume it’s my fault. And I’m being really well supported by management – this is a me thing. All I can think about is how I’m a fraud who’s about to get found out.

    It’s becoming noticeable – boss definitely had to give me a pep talk a few days ago.

    Last year I instituted a lot of new initiatives, but this year feels like treading water, which isn’t entirely surprising considering how much I’m trying to do with limited time and resources. I’m definitely a “live to work” type of person and I’m beginning to think I’m at risk for burn out.

    Any tips for dealing with this would be great for my astronomically high stress levels!

    1. Mimi*

      Take a deep breath. If you have any positive feedback in writing. Print it off and post it somewhere you will see regularly. If you drive put it inside the flip down visor bit. Or keep it in your desk. Or both. Read it often and remind yourself you have this and thats its just nerves. You have a proven track record. Trust your boss that they will tell you if you have made an error.

      Also go book time off for after stressful time events end for some rest and relaxation.

    2. Madeleine Matilda*

      Four years ago I wrapped up a major project that received a lot of press and international exposure. It had consumed over 2 years of my life. At my annual review, my boss said to me not to expect projects like that all the time and that it was okay to have some down time (aka returning to only my regular duties). Sure enough the next year was calmer and the following year another large, although not as large, project came along. If you can, cut yourself some slack. Not every year has to be filled with new initiatives. Do the best you can with the upcoming events and make sure you take time to take care of yourself.

  126. Jen RO*

    I posted a couple of weeks about one of my reports crying when I gave her negative feedback. I am happy to report that her performance has improved! She is not a top performer by any means, but one of her biggest issues was rushing to finish and not paying enough attention. She seems to re-read her writing now and the progress was visible from the first text she wrote after our discussion. Fingers crossed for the future!

    1. AnonforToday*

      I had a trainee cry in my office and I just felt like Liz Lemon in that “It okay! Don’t be cry” bit. She also improved. I hit the constant drumbeat of “everyone has setbacks”. I think she (wrongly) thought her small back slide (which was normal) meant her job was in danger.

    2. Jules*

      Thank you for giving an honest feedback.

      Not letting their direct report know what is lacking in their performance is not kind on the long run. It’s terrible when 7 years in they are still in the same job wondering why they can’t progress in their career. I get frustrated in career discussion (I am HR) when I realize that their managers aren’t letting them know why they are passed by for a promotion/position.

    3. CM*

      That’s good news! As much as crying makes people uncomfortable, at least you know your report is listening to the negative feedback.

  127. Jennafibber*

    I’m a regular here, but I’m using a different account on the fact that I’m not comfortable linking this question with my usual account.

    My partner and I recently moved to a new location after a period of unemployment, as they had found a job. (I’m starting my search over in the new city.) We thought that the salary was very good. When we got here, however, we were surprised with required union fees and a very aggressive retirement fund commitment that is not optional. This eats up about 20% of the take home pay we had anticipated. This has destroyed our housing budget. We have a very kind family friend allowing us to stay in their home while they are traveling, but it’s no permanent solution. If things don’t solidify for me very soon, or we luck into some cheap housing, I don’t think this move is going to work out.

    If we do have to restart the job search, what would be an appropriate way of explaining away a job search a few months into a new job (especially one that is a really good fit/team/environment) would it be okay to say that “the job was as described but the compensation was not as advertised?”

    1. CM*

      Yes, I think that’s fine to say. I guess somebody hearing that might wonder if you have unrealistic expectations, but I would interpret that as saying that they didn’t pay you what they said they would. If pressed, you could mention that this company has some unusual required fees and payroll deductions that you didn’t learn about until after you started the job.

    2. Naruto*

      I like it. “The compensation wasn’t what I expected” is good because it is a very understandable reason for you to leave your job, and it avoids explicitly badmouthing the employer or getting into unnecessary detail.

  128. NW Mossy*

    So I’m moving into a new role very soon, and the search is on for my replacement in my current role. One of the candidates (internal) reached out to me to set up time to talk about the role and seek my advice on the interviews. She’s not my subordinate, and we basically have a nodding acquaintanceship at the moment.

    I’ve agreed to chat with her about the role, but feeling a bit leery about the request to coach her. It feels weird to me, and not something I’ve ever asked when interviewing for internal roles. Am I just being bonkers, or is it normal to ask the current holder of your desired role for help in interviewing?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I guess I could see a line between seeking advice and coaching. She’s not necessarily asking you to be her cheerleader, but I could see asking about the interview format and what they look for in the role as being advice rather than coaching. I’m not sure there’s enough here to judge if it’s weird or not.

    2. CM*

      I think chatting about the role isn’t weird, but asking for your advice on interviews seems unfair to other candidates. I would probably give her a rundown of your current responsibilities and challenges, but not coach her on interviewing.

  129. Bad Candidate*

    I have another question that’s sort of been addressed by Alison before, but I have another twist. I worked for a company, Teapot Associates, for 10 years. I left a few years ago to relocate and a couple of years later they were bought out by a competitor, Coffee Inc. and their specific business unit changed to the name CoffeeTeapot. So on my resume it listed my employer as “CoffeeTeapot (Formerly Teapot Associates).” I’ve learned recently (as I have a lot of contacts and friends that still work there) that Coffee Inc. is selling them off to a private equity firm as of June 1. The new name, is as yet unknown. It’s possible they could go back to Teapot Associates, but I’m certain they will drop the Coffee part. So, how does that get listed on my resume? NewCo Inc. formerly CoffeeTeapot, formerly Teapot Associates? Or something else?

    1. Gandalf the Nude*

      I’m not sure how Alison recommends it, but I’d probably list it as Teapot Associates (now Current owner/name). I don’t think your resume needs a running history of the company’s movements.

    2. Biff*

      Ooof. What a pain. I THINK I’d list it as “Teapot Associates” (Now “Teapot Inc”)

    5. Thlayli*

      I actually just have the name when I worked there on my resume. I only explain the name change when it comes to time to give permission to contact references, then I say “the company is now called x and I’m not sure if y is still the correct contact detail for my old boss. If you have trouble contacting him then get back to me and I will check with ex colleagues for the new info.”

      1. Thlayli*

        Actually I just remembered in my interview I said “the company got bought and is now called… I forget. some three letter acronym that I can never remember”. The interviewer laughed.

        I still got the job.

    6. Gadfly*

      So–if the company changed names a few times while you worked there would you all use starting name? Ending name? Both?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I like to throw myself into mundane work, like data entry where all my concentration is going to be eaten up by a spreadsheet. This means that my mind is too busy to drift off into my sadness, and also usually prevents me from having to interact with other people (which means I don’t accidentally start crying in front of a coworker).

      Sending you virtual hugs! Sorry about your breakup.

  131. Arduino*

    Thanks for everyone who answered my question about EQ last week. The comment to look at the comments section of the “face blind” manager was particularly useful.

  132. junica*

    Sup y’all! I’m a college senior and I have a summer job lined up (swim coach). However, I absolutely hate it, and it is not in my desired field of study (psychology). I’m brushing up on my resume now and intend to send it out to employers within the next week or so, but what is the etiquette about declining a job you’ve already accepted? The swim season starts in June, and I would want to give my supervisor enough time to find a replacement. However, I’m not sure how hard finding a replacement swim coach is right now, and I wouldn’t want to leave them a coach down this close to the swim season.

    Should I email my supervisor now and tell her I’m resigning without having a job lined up? Or should I wait until I have an offer letter (possibly in the next few weeks or month, who knows?), and leave them scrambling to fill the open position a month before the season starts?

    1. Biff*

      I’d wait until you get the better oppurtunity before you quit. If you feel you like your boss and she won’t punish you, you might tell her that you are looking for an internship over the summer that’s more strongly related to your field, but you aren’t sure if you’ll find anything, or if you do, if it will impact your hours as a swim coach. For all you know, you might find a very part-time internship that pays nothing, but is really great experience, and will work with your coach schedule so you can make some moolah and get some good experience.

    2. SophieChotek*

      If you don’t get a job, do you still want the swim coach job? If not, then I’d just resign now – – because you’re right, she needs time to find a replacement.

      If you will take the swim coach job if you don’t find something else…that’s trickier…because you’re right – that could leave them scrambling at the last minute.

    3. Thlayli*

      I found it very hard to get summer jobs in my field until I was almost finished my qualification.

      Unless you have lots of spare cash I wouldn’t turn down a definite job in the hope you can get a job in a field you haven’t finished qualifying in.

      1. Kj*

        In psych there are often jobs in group homes, psych hospitals and the like that hire young staff without degrees. It is how I got into the field.

  133. katamia*

    I got a new job! I’ve been volunteering someplace for awhile, and when a job opened up, they hired me. It’s part time, which is good because I don’t want to stop freelancing right now.

    1. Fortitude Jones*

      Congrats katamia! I know you’ve been looking for something for a while, so I’m glad this opportunity opened up for you :)

  134. Work Relationship*

    One of the directors at the investment institution I work for has been flirting outrageously with me for months – I have been reciprocating, I am an analyst (and 5 grades below him). It was flattering, and made my mundane job a little more fun.

    On Tuesday we crossed into a physical relationship and now I wish I could take it back. No one knows about us but I am terrified it will get out and taint what people think of my work. What makes it worse is I’m completely lovesick about the guy, I can’t concentrate. He is the same about me.

    Just needed to get that off my chest.

    1. Hrovitnir*

      Oh noo. I have terrible self control when it comes to these things so I can 100% imagine being in your shoes. Good luck with dealing with that, however it turns out.

  135. katamia*

    And also a HIPAA question. I don’t normally deal with HIPAA, but one of the main companies I contract with just got a huge client who wants everyone to sign a HIPAA agreement. Obviously I’m not going to be posting what I learn on social media or anything, but is there anything else I need to do? I work from home on my own personal device.

    1. Manders*

      If you’re working from home on a personal device, you need to talk to someone who knows a lot about HIPAA and IT. There’s a lot of weird things that can trip you up that you’d never guess (for instance: you can’t use certain file sharing/cloud storage programs even if they seem safe, because stuff on the back end like how file names are encrypted can violate HIPAA).

      The truth is that it’s very unlikely that you’d ever be caught for that kind of unintentional violation, but the consequences of getting dinged are massive enough that you don’t want to take any risks.

      1. katamia*

        Oof. I’m glad I don’t use cloud storage for work, then. I delete the files pretty quickly after I’m done with them, maybe once a week or once every two weeks, to save space on my hard drive, so maybe I’ll try to shoot for “as soon as I turn something in, I delete it” instead.

        And, yeah, HIPAA just seems so arcane. I understand that they want to address everything to ensure privacy, but once you get beyond the “common sense” stuff, it’s so hard to figure out if you’re being compliant or not.

    2. Red Reader*

      If it’s an option, I’d be tempted to get a separate PC for work, one that you do absolutely nothing BUT work on. I work from home with medical records 100% of the time, but my employer provides me a dedicated work computer with appropriate levels of security, encryption etc, and a VPN connection.

      I have a cheap Windows laptop that I bought for school (I’m a Mac user at home, and there was Windows-only software, feh) that I’m pretty sure has about the same specs as my work laptop – I got it refurbished on Newegg for under $200.

      1. katamia*

        Yeah, I thought of that, but I do so much typing, both for work and for non-work reasons, that I’m really picky about my keyboard. I don’t think I could find a computer I could afford that has a decent keyboard.

        1. Red Reader*

          I hear you, I’m super picky about my keyboards. (And my favorite one was discontinued. I think I still have two that I haven’t opened yet stashed in the closet, so I should be okay for a couple years yet!) Plug in an external?

  136. Iain "Get off my lawn!" Clarke*

    (This is about work posts, so I think acceptable)

    Dear Ask a Manager commentators,

    This is going to be a rant about poor quality commentators on posts in the last year or so – be warned!

    I read the majority of posts on the Naples v Naples post earlier this week, and could almost feel my blood pressure rise. Luckily, I realised after not too long that it was an optional activity, and I should just stop. I am still annoyed though.

    1) How many people had to make the same points? There was a lot of “I would never do this!”, and a corresponding “I’ve known people who gly on autopilot”. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

    2) “But you’d need a passport to get to Italy, dumbass!” Well, there’s a sizable amount of people who need a passport to get to Florida too! Canada is not the 51st State. Read the post again!

    3) “This letter is fake! No way could this exact scenario have played out!” Hmm, do you also believe that only people called Lucinda or Fergus can do bad things in a work place? Or that the Chocolate Teapot industry, a) exists, and b) has disproportionately bad management? Perhaps letter writers sometimes change details on a story, but the essence is still valid… Hmm…

    This posting’s comments were particularly bad, but there seems to a great increase of not-reading-the-post-itis, and making-the-same-points-syndrome.

    Am I getting grumpier?

    Is the site just getting more popular, and so a dilution of the quality commenters is inevitable?

    I read a recent piece on Norwegian Radio’s attempt to keep quality up, and a quick search found a nice link which I will shortly put in a reply.

    ps, This was written before the commentpocalypse that was the Bird Phobic Shover post. (I still think the names should have been Jack and Diane.)

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’ve been mulling similar/related questions. Part of it is that there are more commenters here than there used to be. But I also think another part of it is the letters I’m choosing. I have a real enjoyment of weirdness, and so when I get weird/unusual letters, I’m more likely to print them. As the site’s visibility grows, the number of letters I receive goes up — and so the number of weird letters goes up too.

      I think that’s leading to some of the “this must be fake!” stuff and some of the more inflammatory commenting trends. It really might just be that I need to rein that in and post more stuff like yesterday’s “what do application deadlines mean?” type posts. I don’t know that I want or plan to do that — because I really do enjoy the weird ones — but it’s occurred to me that if I did, it would probably take care of a lot of this.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        The other thing I’m mulling is whether we’re reaching the point where requiring registration to comment would be beneficial enough to outweigh the downsides.

        1. Meredith Blixt*

          I also really love the weird ones but get frustrated at the repetitiveness. Are there any better ways to thread responses or add tags to them so that we can see ‘clusters’ more easily? I’m often reading on mobile and I’m down the rabbit hole before I know it, even with comments collapsed by default.

          I would register if need be.

          1. Mimi*

            This is all true. Its very difficult to keep comments clear on mobile because they just explode everywhere. I also agree. Several times I have come to see someone else posted the point I would have made and refrained from commenting. It didnt need to be said again.

            I wonder if there is a way to separate the comments so one main one is for post 1. Another for post 2. Another for post 3. And then people have to post in just that bit. Actually I am not sure that would solve it. Hmmm.

            I would register if required. Though I tend to change my username often now. I have a fear of colleagues tracking it and realising all these “how do I make my good job in a shit place more tolerable/can you believe this rants?” Are from me.

        2. Grits McGee*

          It does seem like a lot of the repetitious comments on the Naples v Naples post were from names that seemed new.

        3. fposte*

          I would be game to register. It’s cool that it’s so big but I do feel like it’s losing some value as a result. I still love the old TWOP requirement that you read all the comments (or at least the last fifteen pages, since it wasn’t threaded) before commenting; I think that’s hard to enforce and it’s not everybody’s thing, but it really weeds out the drivebys.

          1. Fortitude Jones*

            Yup – same. I barely read here these days because of all the repetition. If I can’t get in early enough to comment, I just keep scrolling.

            1. fposte*

              Moderation. TWOP was really heavily moderated, especially in its later eras. Mostly it was people who said “I haven’t read the other comments, but…” that got moderated.

              1. Natalie*

                Even putting variations on that phrase into the spam filter could help. Of course, you’d have to be willing to delete the comments that were just rehashing the same stuff.

              2. Mrs. Fenris*

                Boy, was it ever. I got spoken to once for not bracketing a quote the way they preferred. It formatted just fine, they just didn’t like the way it looked.

              3. Al Lo*

                The TWoP commenting rules have so heavily influenced the way I converse online. I rarely comment before at least skimming the entire thread, and usually try to make a note of comments that I want to reply to. In my opinion, it fosters more ongoing conversation, rather than starting 10 conversations with the same line.

                It was also pretty heavily publicized on TWoP — if I recall, it was part of the spiel above the comment box. Wasn’t it 15 days or 15 pages back, which ever was longer? So, if a thread was a really popular one and moving quickly, it could be dozens of pages to glance through before posting. If it was a slow thread, your 15 pages might have taken you back 6 months.

                The only place I don’t think it was really enforced was in the Meet Markets, but even there, I had a friend get flagged for boards-on-boards.

        4. KAG*

          I would, actually, prefer to register, if it would mean that I don’t have to go through the Captcha if I use Orfox (my preferred mobile browser).

          Another suggestion would be to add a “like” or “recommend” button to comments, to remove all the “+10000” posts. Which I’ve not yet been guilty of, but have come close.

          1. Thlayli*

            If you put a “like” option then consider a “disagree” button too. There’s plenty of discussion out there about how the like button leads to more arguments not less – because if you agree you just click like but if you disagree you have to actually write a comment to say that, so just having a like button means people are more likely to argue.

        5. Autumn*

          Could you make registering optional? While I would register for this website, on many sites I’m just a fair-weather fan. I’m sure many posters would much rather throw up a comment and be done with it.

          1. Natalie*

            If you make it optional it won’t really do anything about the drive-bys, though.

            If you were willing to do a lot more moderation, you could send all unregistered comments to auto-moderation and allow registered users to bypass that. But I suspect that would take a ton of time.

            1. Oscar Madisoy*

              “If you make it optional it won’t really do anything about the drive-bys, though.”

              One way to counter that would be to add a small “Registered User” next to the user’s name.

              Even if the ability to change the username is still there, you’d know that Alison has a record of that person, so presumably more credibility would be given to the comments from a registered user than a drive-by.

              Of course, the smart reader will evaluate each drive-by’s comments on their own merits, because while there will be some drive-by’s that post “Baba Booey Baba Booey Baba Booey,” there will be others that will post intelligent thoughts.

              1. fposte*

                I think she’s also concerned about the OPs, though; it doesn’t necessarily matter to them that the people slagging them off aren’t regular users.

      2. AnotherAlison*

        1. I think there are only so many “what do application deadlines mean” posts you can do. Sure, if you were selling job-hunting consulting, you could probably rehash those posts for years, but I appreciate that you don’t.

        2. When comments get too redundant, rude, or ridiculous, I just stop reading that post’s comments. If all the posts were about resume formatting or how to ask your manager for time off, I probably wouldn’t be here.

      3. edj3*

        I realize I am probably in the minority, but I don’t enjoy the Jerry Springer-esque turn that posts have taken in the last year. When I see a truly bizarre headline for a daily post, I close the tab.

      4. AvonLady Barksdale*

        I love the weirdness too, so for my sake, don’t stop posting unusual letters! Because, you know, All About Me. I do think there is a large portion of the population that doesn’t understand that all life is not like theirs, many workplaces are different from the ones they’re used to, a lot of things vary by region/culture, etc.

      5. animaniactoo*

        I find the weird stuff fascinating too – particularly because I want to try and figure out what’s behind that, what might be effective at addressing it, etc. I think it’s possible that you need to work a little more methodically to mix the run-of-the-mill questions in with days when there’s a really unusual situation, because I’ve noticed there are days when it’s all rather humdrum (useful humdrum, but still humdrum) and then days where there are multiple hotly debated posts.

        Perhaps add the word “fake” to the moderation trigger words?

        I think I also suggested this before, but adding a report option that would report a comment as being against the commenting rules would bring it to your attention more quickly, and you could remove it or explain why you don’t think it is against your rules even though you got multiple complaints about it (if you did). Because there are so many more commenters now, I think you have to think in terms of how to “train” the new influx, and having existing commenters who are familiar with the rules and tone be able to help do that in a way that still leaves you in control of the final decision about what comments are a big enough issue to do something about.

        1. fposte*

          Cosmic Avenger came up with an easy way to report posts in the meantime–just post a followup comment that starts with a bogus URL and then ID the problem. The URL will send it to moderation.

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          I’ve been hesitant to add the flagging option, because I don’t want to get sucked into having to explain why I’m not removing/addressing something that’s been flagged (because sometimes people are bugged by things that I’m okay with), but the benefits might outweigh that.

          1. animaniactoo*

            I think that you’re right that you’ll get dragged in a lot in the near future, but I think that it will then die down until the next influx of new commenters. Really, it’s about training us as commenters about what you’re okay with and why, so that we have better tools to evaluate our own comments and others to be in keeping for what you want for your site. As the commenting body grows, I think it’s impossible to ignore that occasional wade-ins are not going to be sufficient anymore.

            Anything you do is going to involve more moderation of some sort, the key is how to best make that need something that you can work with and what’s going to have the longest term payoff while retaining some of the key aspects that you want to keep here.

          2. justsomeone*

            As someone who runs a multitude of active facebook groups/forums, I’m observing that you’re reaching the critical mass of commenters and content where bringing on a moderator would make sense. I don’t know if it would make sense for your financial model, but even a part-time mod to help might make the commentariat more manageable on your end.

            1. MuseumChick*

              I like the idea of a moderator more than the other options that have been discussed.

            2. Ask a Manager* Post author

              I think the problem is less “someone needs to be around all the time to remove problematic comments” and more “stuff that isn’t a big deal when it’s 3 of 80 comments becomes a big deal when it’s 50 of 400 comments.” I don’t think a moderator could solve that (at least not without being a lot more heavy-handed than I’d want), which is why I’m thinking a registration system could help. It would probably cut down on the overall number of comments, which would help.

              I’m totally open to hearing that I’m looking at this wrong, though.

              And I appreciate you all bearing with my musing out loud over this stuff in the last few months.

              1. katamia*

                A moderator could step in to remind someone who goes off topic or who breaks a rule before the problem comment gets 50 responses, though. When someone posts something against the rules, sometimes 5 or 10 people comment to say that it’s against the rules. Having a moderator or two who checks the comments during peak hours and officially cuts that off could help to control some of that.

              2. animaniactoo*

                Could you do a mixed registration system? So that you could have registered users are able to post without comments being prescreened (unless they trip a trigger) and unregistered users comments would go through moderation before being posted? And possibly turning off the barrier for posts like this or the salary one?

                What I’m looking at is the times when people who are regulars do not want to comment under their regular name, and being able to preserve their ability to make comments about their situations without outing themselves because somebody can probably tell where they work from several comments they’ve made, the situation is too identifiable, etc.

              3. nonegiven*

                I’ve seen a voting system where if it has more than a certain number of down votes you can’t see the comment without clicking on it. “Voters agree this comment doesn’t add to the discussion.” But if you really want to see it anyway you can click, then you learn they are right about it so often that you quit looking.

      6. Anonymousaurus Rex*

        I’ve been wondering this as well! There’s a definite shift in the quality/tenor of the comments, but also just an avalanche of comments in general. I really like the weird letters though–that’s part of what makes this site so much fun. It’s a balance of practical advice and interesting/oddball letters. I personally would not be opposed to registering to be able to comment.

      7. Grits McGee*

        I also am a big fan of the weird ones. And honestly, if I had a weird/extreme work situation, I’d send it here because there are so few advice columns that exclusively cover work issues. (And even fewer that cover them competently.) As much as I love Mallory Ortberg, if my job is on the line I’d want advice from AAM and a community with lots of business expertise.

        Alison, would you be open to posting questions without the option to comment? (Or closing comments earlier?) Captain Awkward has done this in the past and it works for that blog and commenting community; goodness knows, I love the comments here but if another Henry situation can be averted, I think it would be worth the price of lost conversation.

          1. Anonymousaurus Rex*

            I’d be bummed if comments closed earlier, because sometimes I really do want to comment or have something to add to the conversation–but I can’t always read and comment in real time. It’s already hard when there are a zillion comments to make sure that I’m not saying the same thing, but when I do think I’m adding something, it’s nice to be able to chime in a little later.

          2. dear liza dear liza*

            Yeah, I feel like those of us on the West Coast are already behind. Comments tend to die off within a day, so it’s not like the comment period is very lengthy anyway.

            1. Me2*

              Agreed with the West Coast thing, sometimes by the time I see a post, there are already 400 plus comments.

            2. Audiophile*

              Look at the salary question from a few months ago or the one this week, they both grew to over 2000 within a day. And were still going relatively strong for a few days after that.

          3. katamia*

            Maybe you could try grouping the “basic” questions (application deadline-type stuff, basic resume-type stuff, basic getting along with coworker-type stuff) into one or two posts and closing comments on those posts. I missed the Henry issue Grits McGee alluded to, but I’m assuming that wouldn’t solve all the issues, but it would also cut down on some of the comment. I really like seeing the alternative perspectives that the comments offer for the most unusual and complicated questions. I feel like I’ve learned a lot from them, and I’d be very sorry to see this blog go totally comment-free.

            I’m also really averse to the idea of registering because I don’t want to be tracked, personally. Not that the blog would fall apart if I stopped commenting (especially since I haven’t had much time to comment recently), but I’m not sure I would make a Disqus account (and I would DEFINITELY not use Facebook to comment here).

          4. LCL*

            Oh God, don’t do it the way Captain Awkward does. Her blog voice as regards comments comes off as really bitchy and snarky. And she will tell commenters in advance not to make certain arguments. And if she brings up a political subject and you disagree with her she won’t allow the post.
            What was the Henry deal? My Google fu failed.

            1. Apollo Warbucks*

              Henry was a letter writer not to long ago who wrote in about an employee of his being suspend following an accusation of racism by someone his employee interviewed and didn’t hire because “he wasn’t well spoken”

              2. LCL*

                Oh thanks. I remember that now and thought everyone missed the point-The evil was in suspending someone without pay during an investigation. No pay during an investigation mostly encourages false reports and cutthroat behavior.

          5. Al Lo*

            My other favorite commenting place on the internet is Go Fug Yourself, and their comment journey has also evolved. I started reading them around 2008, and at that time, their comments were always closed — when they grew, they found that people were getting too mean (body-shaming, bitchiness, devolving comment threads), so they just shut it down. Then, in about 2009 or so, they started opening comments on select posts, and not long after that, they opened comments on everything.

            Now, their comment threads aren’t nearly as large as AAM’s, but they’ve also achieved that tone of respectful, engaging, educational discussion, and they have a commentariat that hold others to that standard. I don’t know what, specifically, it was about closing down comments for a while and then re-opening them, but the effect seems to have mostly carried over 8+ years later.

        2. Grits McGee*

          This is pretty late so no one may see it, but I wanted to clarify– by closing comments, I didn’t mean arbitrarily closing them at x hours after posting. I meant that if it’s clear that most of the comments are going to be unproductive, closing comments early before there are 500 posts debating whether it’s psychologically possible for someone to fly to the wrong country without noticing.

      8. Detective Amy Santiago*

        I think incorporating a “like” button for comments would help prevent a lot of the repetition. I know you’ve talked about this before and I am definitely against the idea of a Reddit style “upvote” thing, but something like FB where you can just like or plus one would be an easy way for people to agree with something that’s already been said.

      9. Iain "Get off my lawn!" Clarke*

        Thanks for not calling me on being a grump. I did write this post a couple of days ago, and tweak it a bit. I wanted to be a mild rant, not a foaming at the mouth one.

        I do think the off the wall stuff is fun, and I enjoy reading it. It would be a shame for that to go. I appreciate that all the “so, are cover letters a good thing” letters have been comprehensively covered, and people writing to you can probably be replied to with “See post in October 2003”.

        It’s a really hard one to solve. I’ve thought of a few ideas, and rejected them as being worse than the problems they’d be solving.

        Registration? There’s been a couple of blogs I’ve enjoyed, but not gone near the comments, as they’ve been disqus, and I am partially tin foil hatted, and partially annoyed at yet another log in. (I do actually use me real name though, just not with a url so spiders can link all the stuff together). Now I have lingered here for a while, I would be willing to register. But how many fresh voices would it deter?

        Volunteer moderators? Probably would help splat repetition. “Post removed as this has been said 99x already”, but there’s a big risk of the comments turning into an echo chamber. And quis custodies etc.

        Maybe the “new comment” button should be randomly hidden in the comments? Trivially searchable though…

        It’s a difficult problem, caused by more and more people enjoying Alison’s work, and that’s a /good/ thing. I just feel a bit sad that this amazing place has been demoted to 80% amazing.

        About the only tech solution I can think of is being able to collapse sub threads. But that’s been mentioned before as a hard problem, so I won’t flog that horse, just mention it.

        It’s late here, so I won’t see followups until tomorrow. I’ll just close by thanking Alison for her tremendous site, and I hope she enjoys doing it for many more years. (OK, I’ll actually close by wishing for more Jamie too! When will there be an Alison and Jamie solve your problems podcast?)

        1. Overeducated*

          I would never comment again if it were Disqus (or Facebook or Google). I created my Disqus account for a couple of religious blogs and once it took over the Internet, I felt like I couldn’t comment on other sites because I didn’t want my comments on faith to be linked to my comments on totally unrelated topics. It’s one less layer of anonymity. I feel the same way about WordPress. Comment registrations that are one per email and linked across sites are not cool.

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            I’ll never, ever do Facebook comments, because it would prevent people from having anonymity, which I think is really important on this kind of site. And I used Disqus for about a week many years ago, and vowed never again to that because it caused too many issues (when Disqus goes down, your comments disappear … and apparently a lot of workplaces block Disqus entirely). So neither of those!

            It’s too bad because Disqus is the closest to the features I want, but it has too many disadvantages.

    3. Hrovitnir*

      Heh, you are not alone. I like a big comments section, but where it’s piles of the same comments each with its own very similar subthread it gets frustrating.

      I also love “absence of proof is not proof of absence” and fail sometimes at not having a go at people coming to make comments like FAKE! It’s. So. Annoying.

      I’m not certain comment registration will fix it, but it will probably alleviate it, and I’m pretty sure the regulars won’t have a problem with it.

    4. dear liza dear liza*

      One reason I enjoy this blog is because of the stable commentariat. A lot of posters are regulars, and there’s a real sense of community. But this can lead to the commentary becoming more of a conversation among community members. It’s less “here’s helpful advice for the LW” and more “hey, that reminds me of X”, and then “oh, if X, then what about y?” discussions among commenters. While I enjoy this conversational framework, I can understand others’ frustration.
      OTOH, I’m totally on board with ‘read all the comments before posting’-type rules

    5. Stop That Goat*

      Folks inevitably want to express their opinions. As commenters grow, there’s going to be some repetition in that. It could always be policed more tightly but then I’d worry about only the same group of people (the ones who catch the posts first) being the only ones who get to say something.

    6. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I’m on Team Get Off My Lawn too.

      I’ve noticed that forum/comment/whatever communities tend to evolve through several common phases, and each has their own trouble spots. This group is small enough to feel like it’s a coherent community, but large enough to attract people for whom the community and conversation among commenters itself (rather than the actual content of the posts) is the main draw. People feel ownership, which is great, except when that translates into self-righteousness.

      I’m not sure what can be done about it, other than steps you can take to make the comment community smaller (requiring registration, ramping up moderation which will make some people frustrated and self-select out, etc.).

    7. Gadfly*

      I think a huge part of the problem is that 16 people on a hot topic will say the same thing in 5 different places in the time it takes to make one reply. And if you don’t reply to things as you come to them it is difficult to then find them again (meaning if you read through before replying) and even then, you’ll still have a few hundred comments made before you reply that you never saw.

      How do you avoid saying the same thing as people whose comments didn’t exist for you until after you posted?

  137. JustDoingIt*

    Unemployed, first-time poster here.

    I jumped into the deep end recently by selling all my stuff and moving abroad, to a city where I have a love interest, just enough contacts to start a community, and plenty of job opportunities in my industry.

    Since arriving, I have applied for maybe 14-15 positions and interviewed for around 10, often advancing through multiple rounds. I have been to the final round at two different companies I love, and as of this week, put on hold at both because it is simply not the perfect fit right *now.* But maybe for openings on the horizon in the next few weeks or months. Visa issues are a bit of an impediment. I want a company to sponsor me, and when I find the right fit, this will be no problem.

    The thing is, I’m also transitioning into a role I’ve never officially held before. I have the right transferable skills and relevant experiences to make a case for myself, and I’ve refined my resume and overall approach to within an inch of perfection. I’m very clear with employers about needing a culture that values potential and personality. If only the visa weren’t an issue, I could jump in and do trial periods at these companies where I haven’t been quite perfect. Both are still keeping communication open with me.

    I’ve certainly given myself a challenge, and after this recent disappointment, I’m tempted to fall into a pit of despair—but then I look at my track record and decide there’s no point in being anything but optimistic. I’m not going to give up. And I’m excited to stand on the other side of unemployment and think, “Wow, I can’t believe I made it through all that.” Can I get an amen!?

    1. Manders*

      That’s actually a great track record! I think you’ve got a good shot at finding something soon.

      2. CM*

        Absolutely — my usual hit rate is more like getting interviews for 1/3 of the jobs I apply to, and I think that’s pretty good. Clearly you have valuable skills and employers like you if you are having multiple rounds of interviews. I have also fallen into the pit of despair when getting a rejection, but remember that feeling is temporary. You’re going to land something great.

        1. JustDoingIt*

          Thank you CM! I really appreciate it. My new market has opportunity and is a bit less competitive than my last, so I’m thankful for that. :)

  138. AnonforToday*

    So I have been on a temporary assignment where I basically have been on loan to a division to do some teapot design training for new hires. I applied for this assignment and it was totally voluntary. Training is not normally part of my job. I have been asked to stay on through the end of the year (it would have required applying again). However, I am totally burned out, as is the other person from my division on this project, to the point that our normal division manager expressed concern and wants us back designing teapots instead of training. This assignment has been and overwhelming amount of work and a lot of personal interaction (I am not a clear introvert or extrovert but all day questions can be very tough). However, loan division is now upset I am declining to continue and keeps asking if I am sure. To be clear, this assignment is great if I want to go into management, but that’s not necessarily what I want because it has a lot of the same stressors as this assignment and I wouldn’t really be using my degree anymore. I know another few months isn’t much but I am so tired. Just trying to work through the guilt of leaving a project and my trainees. I have always had trouble saying no to things.

  139. Madeleine Matilda*

    I work at a government agency. We have a cafeteria that is managed by a private company with whom we contract. The cafeteria employees are great, friendly, and provide good food. Every year around the December holidays they put out a tip jar by the register for several weeks asking for tips. It always strikes me as odd to see the tip jar. I wonder why are we tipping people who are contractors (my parent agency has 16,000 contractors, most of whom aren’t tipped)? And if we do tip, how much? Do you tip for every meal you buy in December or just once? Fellow commenters, what do you think and what would you do?

    1. Bad Candidate*

      On one hand I think it’s weird, on the other, these are very likely low paying jobs with no bonus opportunities to speak of. Maybe someone wanted a way to thank the cafe employees and this was what they came up with? If I really liked them I might put in a couple of $20s just once.

    2. Thlayli*

      I don’t get why it’s relevant that they are contractors. Plenty of companies that have government contracts pay the lowest and have the worst benefits they can get away with. Tip jars are common for cafeterias; I’m surprised it’s just in December. Unless all the other contractors you mention are also cafeteria workers, the fact that they don’t get tipped is irrelevant.

      Ive always just put spare change in tip jars, except if it was a particular occasion or a particular employee I wanted to give more money to.

      1. Madeleine Matilda*

        It’s relevant that they are contractors because employees can’t accept gifts and the tip would be considered as a gift by our ethics official. Interesting that you’ve seen tip jars in other cafeterias. I’ve never seen it in another government building cafeteria. There are multiple cafeterias at my parent agency, in different buildings, ours is the only one with the tip jar.

    3. vpc*

      I also work at a government agency; I have never seen a tip jar at the ten or so cafeterias on our headquarters campus. I think we’d consider it a bit odd if we did.

  140. D.A.R.N.*

    Anybody have any tips for a temp worker without health insurance (for now) on dealing with a chronic illness(es?) while trying to do well at the job?

    I’m on the 6th month and am still ‘trying out’ for the perm position, so I’m very wary of doing anything wrong, but I also haven’t had a day off except for when my car was broken into and when I had jury duty, so I’m burning out, and have had a lot of health stuff happen just as I lost medicaid but want to make sure it doesn’t affect me being hired for this job.

    1. Chaordic One*

      If you live in the U.S., then you might be able to get insurance under the Affordable Care Act (ACA). I’ve been very lucky in that I qualified for it. It was difficult paying for the deductibles (I was able to negotiate some price reductions with my doctor and hospital if I paid upfront) and making sure that the doctors I saw were in the insurance network, but it has worked well so far.

      There are restrictions on when you can enroll and it might be too late for this year, but you should check because there are a host of legitimate reasons that will let you enroll late, like if you had health insurance through an employer and then lost it, or if you couldn’t afford COBRA.

      Start at their website: healthcare.gov

      1. D.A.R.N.*

        Ah, I’ve already been through there. I haven’t found anything affordable enough that covers mental health. :(

  141. JC Denton*

    I’ve looked at changing companies for awhile now. I put in an application with a company I really liked near the end of 2015. I interviewed and was given an offer a few months later. Before I got a start date, the company had to put their hiring on hold but promised to stay in touch. Now almost a year later, they’re back and are asking about a start date with the same original offer.

    In that time, I’ve changed jobs at my current company, received a raise, and am on the fast track to a promotion. I sent the potential-new company an updated resume and they said they’d consider negotiating the original salary offer but made no promises. Am I crazy to think there shouldn’t be some kind of “inflation” for the time they left the offer on the back burner? Their recruiter seems to think time stood still for everyone, but that’s obviously not the case…

    1. JustDoingIt*

      Nope, I stand with you and I think they might even be crazy. Inflation, sure, but how about your improved skills, accomplishments, and additional value you bring as a result of the past year’s experience? Plus the earnings/growth sacrificed with your potential promotion at a company where you are in good standing. You have the right to re-negotiate, no doubt, and I wouldn’t want to work for a company that boomerangs a year later suggesting that the original offer is the best they can do!

    2. fposte*

      It may be somewhat industry-dependent, but overall, no, I don’t think you’re crazy. They may just have gone with the path of least resistance (“Hey, you still want this?”) rather than thinking through the over-a-year difference aspect; good for you for raising the issue to them.

    3. AnonforToday*

      No, that was over a year ago and circumstances have changed. I’d be a little suspicious of the company if they treat you as unreasonable for asking for this.

    4. legalchef*

      If your job situation at your current company hadn’t changed, then no, I don’t think their offer necessarily needed to change much (maybe a little, to merely compensate for your increased experience doing whatever it is you do).

      But, I think it’s totally reasonable for you to say “given X, Y, and Z factors, it no longer makes sense for me to leave unless A, B, and C happens.” A reasonable company would understand that you would be potentially giving up a promotion (and, presumably, another raise) at your current job if you left. This especially holds true if the salary you were originally offered is less (or even the same) as what you are now currently making.

    5. msroboto*

      They are taking almost a year to finalize an offer that they took off the table. This sounds really really bad to me.
      What if they get a huge job or something and need to staff up? It doesn’t seem to me like that would be forthcoming. This could lead to crazy work conditions for you and crazy hours etc.
      I might be off track here but I would say no thanks even if they come back with a change in the offer.

  142. Megan*

    How do you handle references when your only potential references are from your current job, and you don’t want to tip them off that you’re looking? I’ve been here 5 years, and it was my first permanent job after college. Any former-job references would be from quite a long time ago and when I was just an intern. How do I handle job applications that require references? I’m looking at a number of government job applications where that info is required.

    1. legalchef*

      Is there anyone who left your current job with whom you worked closely? Maybe you can use them. When I was job searching, it was hard for me to find people who could speak about my work for the same reason, and the company to which I was applying (and where I am now working) understood that I couldn’t give them supervisor references who could speak to my work currently, because I didn’t want them to know I was looking.

  143. Amber Rose*

    Here’s a Friday story for you:

    A customer ordered 100 of a thing at a fairly steep price then called upset about the many thousands of dollars invoice. Turns out he only wanted 5, but didn’t bother to check either his own PO, or the order confirmation we emailed before shipping.

    So he’s returning 95 of them.

    You’d think someone would’ve noticed.

    1. Did our new employee up and quit?*

      Haha, things like this happen at my work ALL THE TIME. When we put in orders, order confirmations are automatically emailed to the customer.

      But, many of them don’t even bother looking at it, then get upset when the order is “wrong” (even though it matched their PO!)

    2. Nan*

      Ha! I texted my husband a link to a spice rack on Amazon the other day. I got home yesterday and he had an Amazon box. I asked what was in the box, and he said it was the spice rack. He had accidentally clicked the one click order button, and didn’t realize until it was too late to cancel.

      Next time, I’ll send a link to something better than a spice rack. :)

    3. JustaTech*

      You would think, but I’ve had people order 400 of a thing and then not open it until after the return period passed and only then find out that they had ordered square pegs for round holes, so everyone had to stop everything and go make the holes square.

  144. Did our new employee up and quit?*

    Drama going on at the workplace!

    We had a new employee start Wednesday, whom I am training (I recently got a promotion, and she is taking my old position). Yesterday, she was sitting at my computer as I was training her, when she suddenly got up (at 10:30 AM), and went into my supervisor’s office, without saying a word to me. Moments later, she walked out of my supervisor’s office, jacket on, purse on shoulder, and told me “I have a doctor’s appointment, I’ll be back later!” Prior to this, she didn’t once mention having to leave for any reason.

    Well, she never came back yesterday. I figured she would never come back at all honestly, LOL. So, imagine my surprise when my supervisor told me this morning that “New Girl will be gone today, she had a procedure done Monday and got a terrible infection from it.”

    The thing is, yesterday (before she up and left), New Girl told me that she is doing a 40 mile bike ride in another state tomorrow, and that she has been training for it for months. So immediately when my supervisor told me she was “out sick”, I didn’t really believe it. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but the girl has been at work not even a day and a half out of the 3 days she’s been employed here (well, actually she’s through a staffing agency!) When I told my supervisor about New Girl’s bike ride plans this weekend, she didn’t seem to think anything was fishy. Instead, she said “bless her heart, that’s too bad that she’ll have to miss her bike race.” We’ve had so many people NOT work out through this staffing agency, that I think my supervisor is blind to the fact that she may be another no-go.

    I’m anxious to see if she’ll be back next week, but my gut instinct is that she won’t be! If she isn’t coming back though – I wish she would have just been honest instead of making up excuses!

    1. Madeleine Matilda*

      If you really want to dig into this, when she is back on Monday, assuming she is, you can simply ask “How was the race?” then when she says how it was, say something along the lines of “I’m glad you got over your illness so you could still participate.” Of course there could be reasons she was out and still raced. Perhaps she went to see her dr who told her to rest for one day and take antibiotics and she could race. Or she could be so determined that she would even race while ill.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      That is so odd! However… because I am a benefit-of-the-doubt type person, the abrupt leaving and giving the details only to your supervisor makes me think it might be legit– especially if you’re a guy and your supervisor is a woman. Note that this is COMPLETELY colored by my own experience with a procedure going not quite as planned and having a sudden onset of some rather embarrassing issues.

      On the other hand, your read is probably the correct one. If she does come up, first question has to be, “How was your bike ride?”

      1. Did our new employee up and quit?*

        FWIW, I’m actually a 24-year-old female, and she is a female in her early 40’s, I would guess!

    3. Bad Candidate*

      Zoloft. I started taking it a few weeks ago and it has made a MASSIVE difference in my life. I feel so much better. I’ve been on other antidepressants before that worked to some degree, but this one has made a huge difference. Obviously we’re all different and I’m not saying this or any drug is right for you, but that’s what has helped me out.

        1. CM*

          I spent a moment wondering if you were suggesting antidepressants for the new employee before realizing this was the wrong comment.

          This makes me wonder what would happen if we randomly mixed up questions and answers in the comments. I think it would be good.

    4. not so super-visor*

      I would hold off on judgement — I’ve had both happen (the abrupt quit & the medical emergency a few days after starting.). We also use a lot of temps from a staffing agency. I’d be more suspicious of the abrupt quit if she hadn’t said anything to your supervisor. In a lot of those cases, they just don’t come back from lunch or come back the next day.

    5. Dienna Howard*

      That is bizarre. In the temp jobs I’ve worked at the agency usually wants to know my availability in advance so it won’t come off as a surprise to anyone at my temp job. That she just upped and left like that is odd.

      1. Did our new employee up and quit?*

        That was my take, as well. If she would have mentioned beforehand at any point that she had an appointment, I wouldn’t have thought that it was so bizarre.

  145. Anon for current purposes*

    How does one handle crippling depression at work?

    I’m finishing up my Master’s project, and for the last two days I’ve just had the energy knocked out of my by some pretty nasty melancholy-ness. In large part because there’s a lot of anneversaries of horrible shit from this past year coming up in a few months, in part because I’m seriously doubting my own competence as I finish the project.

    This isn’t the first time I’ve just been thrown into a black mood. Two years ago, at the start of summer, I could barely do anything at all except read and lie in bed.

    Do any of you who’ve been through this, or known those who’ve been through this, have any tips for fighting off the nasties?

    Thanks!

    1. Madeleine Matilda*

      If you feel you are suffering from depression, please consider seeing your doctor who may be able to help with medication and a referral to a therapist. Treat it as you would any other illness.

    2. Grits McGee*

      I find it helpful to break up what I need to take care of into tiny, do-able pieces, write them all down, and then cross them off as I take care of each little chunk of responsibility. Also, it helps to tailor what I’m working on to how I’m feeling in the moment. I’d warm up with checking (but not responding to) email, do hard task X for the 30 minutes I had the brain- and will power to do so, then easy task Y for an hour and a half to get myself through the morning, then answer emails when I was bored with task Y, etc. Not being able to get things done has always made me feel worse when I’m already low, so having a plan of “Well, if I don’t have the energy to do X, then I’ll do Y. And if I can’t get Y done, then I’ll break it down into A and B, etc” to get over the hill.

      1. em2mb*

        Yes, this! I, too, am finishing my thesis, and I’m only starting to come out of a nasty depression. I found if I wrote down everything I needed to do on a post-it and stuck it to my computer each day, it helped me stay on task, and I wasn’t dwelling as much because I had a visual reminder of what I needed to get down. It also was really, really satisfying to cross each task out!

        I also hope you are able to take Madeleine Matilda’s advice and see a therapist or psychiatrist. I was really reluctant to go, but I’m so glad I did. I feel like myself again!

        (And self-care is important. It’s totally fine – and in fact I’d encourage you – to put things on your list that will improve your mood. Sometimes you need to be reminded to take a break, stretch, walk around the block, listen to a podcast, whatever you need to do to get away from it for a minute or two.)

    3. Dr. KMnO4*

      Store up your energy for work. I find when I’m depressed that I have only enough energy to do one important thing, be it work, cooking, anything beyond surface-level cleaning, or socializing. So if you just need to power through and finish the project then focus only on that. I’ve been there, at the end of my PhD (and after). Sometimes you just have to eat out and ignore your laundry in the interests of getting the project done. I find that sunshine helps, which I know is largely out of your control. Take one day at a time, and do what you can with a minimum of judgement. It’s easy to get overwhelmed if you expect yourself to do everything. Celebrate the small victories of getting anything done.

      Hang in there. And I realize that the words of a random internet commenter might not help, but I think that if you’ve made it this far you are no impostor. You are competent and capable. Keep at it.

    4. Accidental Analyst*

      If you’re able to talk to a professional do. If not these are some times I’m working on at the moment.

      Try to notice any time you feel competent even if it’s for something really small/insignificant. Try to hold that thought for 5-30 seconds without dismissing it or downplaying your competence. Also start to notice when you achieve anything and give yourself some credit for it. You got out of bed, that’s credit. You fed yourself, that’s credit. Basically the idea is to start getting smaller more consistent positive thoughts regarding what you’ve done. This can build over time to help improve your mood.

      Another thing that I’m just starting to do is to try to catch when I’m thinking depressive thoughts and label them as “not helpful”. The idea is to be aware of them and by relabelling them it helps to reduce their power and also puts a little break which may stop the downward spiral of self recrimination/loathing.

    6. Chaordic One*

      Well, of course, the advice about getting some counseling is sound. If an antidepressant is suggested, that might be a very good thing and certainly worth trying. Meanwhile, keep up the effort to do good self-care, things like eating regularly and eating healthy food, staying hydrated, getting some exercise and getting enough sleep and at regular hours.

      One little head trip that I play with myself is that sometimes I will pretend that I’m someone other than myself. I call this other person “Baeordic.” When I’m Baeordic, my job is to take care of Chaordic and help her as much as I can. (I know, I’m a bit odd, but it works for me.)

  146. CollegeAdmin*

    As I’ve mentioned a couple times on here, I’m dating a coworker. He’s in HR and I’m in IT; our work has never overlapped in the 2+ years we’ve known each other, let alone the 9 months we’ve been dating. But that’s about to change – we might be assigned a project together (just the two of us).

    His supervisors know we’re together, as does the head of HR (Becky). Becky asked him if he’s okay with us working together, and he said yes.

    My former supervisor knows we’re together, but I’m not sure the head of IT (Ron) knows. And as of a few weeks ago, I got moved up the reporting chain to report directly to Ron. There is a solid chance that when Becky talks to Ron about this project, she’ll mention that we’re together. Should I tell Ron that we’re together before this? What if the project didn’t exist – should I still say something?

    1. em2mb*

      I’d tell your supervisor, Ron, as matter-of-factly as possible: “Ron, normally we prefer to keep our relationship discreet, but as it looks like we’re about to be assigned a project together, I wanted to let you know I’m dating (boyfriend’s name).”

      It sounds like Becky asked your boyfriend if he was willing to work together and he said yes, but do you feel the same way? Because if not, it’s time to speak up! It’s OK to not want to work together, even if your boyfriend doesn’t think he’ll mind.

      1. CM*

        Agreed. Better that Ron hears it from you. If it weren’t for this project, I would say it’s unnecessary to tell Ron.

  147. Junior Dev*

    My coworker, who is also team lead, put up a ticket in GitLab asking us all to take an online MBPI test. I was pretty irritated by it, both because the Meyers Briggs is useless and because I’m struggling with a lot of mental health stuff right now, and taking the test felt way too personal. I took it and got a score that had a “confidence vs turbulence” rating and I was 90% “turbulent.” I shared my concerns about the test itself​ (but not about my mental health) with the team lead and he added some notes onto the ticket about how “this is just a conversation starter!”

    I took the test again and picked blander versions of the same answers so it wouldn’t be so obvious I have low self-esteem and impostor syndrome.

    I’m also irritated because I’m the only woman on the team and the results I got the second time (which I did post, and which included a picture of a woman in a dress skipping around surrounded by butterflies, no joke) line up pretty well with stereotypes of women being irrational and emotional, etc. And because I’ve heard sooooo much stuff about how it’s my personal responsibility to end sexism by power posing/asking for more salary/not saying “sorry” or “just”/whatever the trend is this week.

    As if that weren’t enough: I’ve taken a lot of aptitude and personality tests, not online for fun, but in a clinical setting. I have a very complicated set of experiences with mental health treatment and psychology. So it’s pretty hard for me to send a test like that as “fun.” I took it so I wouldn’t be labeled”not a team player.” But I am not happy about it.

    1. Autumn*

      I don’t know if you meant the “MBTI,” but many people appreciate knowing their personality type. In fact, learning what I was, and that it is one of the most rare personality types, was a defining moment in my life. I only wish that I figured it out earlier. Now I embrace my type. (I want to put mine on my license plate. :)) And when I’m having trouble communicating with someone, I often resort to tips and tricks I’ve learned regarding certain personality types that I’ve studied.

      I’ve also taken many personality and aptitude tests, but I’ve used the results to tweak my game and adjust my communicating style. There’s a lot to be said for knowing what you’re working with.

      1. Junior Dev*

        It has no scientific basis. You might as well take one of those “what flavor of cupcake are you?” quizzes on BuzzFeed. I’m glad you enjoy it but many people do not and I dislike having it imposed on me.

    2. Hrovitnir*

      I would also be deeply displeased for very similar reasons. It also always gets my back up how it’s not acknowledged that even with legit tests they have to be administered VERY carefully by a professional to be worth bugger all. People will protest they know that but given how these things can be used in the workplace I say bah humbug to that.

      To be fair, I do find totally-not-legit personality tests fun (so long as it’s not blindingly obvious what answers will lead to what result). But I would be side-eyeing the hell out of it at work and would worry for people for whom it’s the opposite of fun.

    3. CM*

      Ugh. I agree with you. But next time just lie. You don’t have to answer the questions honestly.

    4. Kerr*

      Ugh. I feel your pain. It’s “just a conversation starter,” but what if I don’t want our conversation built on that specific framework?
      I successfully pushed back on this when my supervisor wanted our team to take what sounds like the same test. (Ha, the butterflies! I may have had this as *one* of my results…) It made me nervous – I didn’t want to be “not a team player” and all that jazz, but personality tests on the job are a big fat NOPE for me. Especially the “confident/turbulent” score, which has no place at work and could be difficult (and variable!) for someone with mental health issues.
      And yeah, that particular test seems to veer in the direction of sexist. Not to mention being of dubious accuracy. If we’re looking at the same type(s) here, nope, I don’t want my employer assuming that I will work for a lower salary for warm feelings, or that facts are supposedly less important for me (?!), or that I don’t do “practical” stuff well (double ?!).
      Even in MBTI, it’s not supposed to be static and permanent for the remainder of your lifetime, so why the boxes, people?

  148. Naomi*

    I’m interviewing potential summer interns next week! Most of the candidates have experience with what we do, but often in an academic or amateur environment rather than a professional one. Any recommendations for good interview questions?

    1. PseudoMona*

      For intern candidates with even a small amount of related experience, I ask them to explain their project/experience: what is the background, what did they do, what approach did they take, why did they take that approach, what did they learn, what skills did they use, what was the outcome. I start off the interview by going over the internship program details, and I leave time at the end of the interview for the intern candidate to ask questions.

    2. Ob*

      Yes! I did a lot of these at my last job. PseudoMona has some great advice. A lot of it is like a regular interview—identifying the skills they need to succeed at the position (attention to detail, good writing, etc.) and asking why they believe they are a good fit. I also always asked what they were hoping to get out of the internship, and what their longer-term professional goals are. I was very upfront about the more menial tasks (like filing) and why they were a necessary part of the job (in entry level jobs in the actual teapot industry, you do a lot of filing).

      I also tried to give them as much context and helpful knowledge as possible for any task, as well as some monthly ‘lessons’ on specific aspects of the industry as they pertained to their position (for example, the different elements of a standard teapot design proposal), since they’re not just there to work for you but to learn! And have fun :)

  149. anon31*

    I’ve been at my current job for 2.5 years and I recently started considering moving to another city. I had a Facebook post about starting to consider moving a few weeks ago, which i thought was safe since I’m only FB friends with one trusted coworker, but I guess that was my mistake and the post somehow made its way to my boss. She confronted me, and I responded with the truth which is that I’m considering moving, but don’t have a timeline and would make sure to give plenty of notice if it becomes definite, but that it’s still a long ways off. Of course, I’m now worried about being forced out sooner. Has this happened to anyone, and what can I do to avoid being jobless before I’m ready to move?

    1. jm*

      I’m sorry this happened…I’ve been in a similar situation and now only post 100% squeaky clean positive stuff on FB. I don’t know if this would have worked (depends on the content of your FB post), but I totally would have fibbed and said I was considering moving to a different apartment or house….but in the same city. Also, I would immediately unfriend that coworker and be the ice queen to him/her for the remainder of your time at that company.
      In the meantime, hopefully doing an excellent job and making no waves will help keep you in your current job. If it’s any consolation, most managers I’ve known really hate to lose good workers, and also hate to go through the hiring process unnecessarily. Here’s hoping they will keep you on until you decide to leave.

  150. KR*

    Dear AAM, today is the day after I was supposed to hear about my background check clearing for my job after it was delayed…. For the third time. It was delayed so long that next Thursday will be a month since my original start date. My new manager was messaging me last night so I know he still wants to proceed with hiring me. I just have to wait and adjust my budget anxiously for each week I’m not working.

    On the plus side, I joined Rev.com as a transcriptionist, got promoted out of the “Rookie” stage early, and made over $40 this week! It’s slow work, especially when I’m not very good at it yet so I’m not very fast, but it’s easy work and I can do it from home while my husband’s away.

    Thank you for the past reassurance and company and for this forum for keeping me in the work mind set during this unemployment.

    1. Sugar of lead*

      Tell me about being a transcriptionist. How’d you get started? Do you recommend it?

      1. Spoonie*

        I concur — I’ve been trying to figure out a way to add a second stream of income without overwhelming primary job.

      2. KR*

        I signed up on Rev.com! They have you take a basic grammar test and try a test job to make sure you can read and write well. Then you hear back in less than 3 days about if you’re “hired” or not. It’s contract work so you don’t pay taxes up front, so you have to deal with that. They pay through PayPal mainly. When you first start out you are a “Rookie”. There’s less work available to you and none of the work you do goes directly out to the client without being checked and graded by other more experienced transcriptionists. You have to have certain quality and commitment metrics (commitment being if you finish the job or not. They do give you close to an hour to choose to drop the project with no penalty) and have transcribed 100 minutes, before you can be promoted to the point where you aren’t being checked after every project. I like the feedback I’ve been given so far because it’s very specific. After you’re a “Revver” and not a “Rookie” they only check it periodically or if you get a complaint. The software is easy to use. There definitely is more work available during the day and some times the work gets snapped up quickly on slow days but you can claim projects during the day and finish them at night as long as you can get it done by the due date and you’re sure you can do the project and won’t have to drop it. I’m still new but so far it gives me something to do that results in money, so I’m happy.

        1. Dienna Howard*

          I’m on Rev too. To piggyback off of what KR said I got to Revver Plus, but when I worked full-time temp jobs I let Rev fall by the wayside and my metrics dropped back to Revver. Revver Plus transcriptionists get a longer lead on new projects (I believe about 90 minutes) before regular Revver transcriptionists get access to those projects. Now that I’m unemployed again (let go from my temp job) I tried going back to Rev to find some means of income, but because my metrics dropped drastically I have very few projects to choose from.

          Rev is something that is good for extra pocket money, but definitely not something to live off unless you’re highly committed to logging onto it daily and consistently.

  151. Minhag*

    What do you guys think about negotiating salary as an intern? I’m in an MBA program and have been applying and networking and hustling for a summer internship but have gotten no offers so far. I’m pretty desperate and would take anything at this point. Normally, I wouldn’t dream of negotiating, especially coming from a desperate place. But! From what I’ve gathered, the MBA world is a little different from other industries I’ve been in and interned in before. Here, there’s more of an idea that interns should be paid “appropriately” and what you make an as intern can be a reflection of what you’d make as a full-time hire, so if you’re offered $30/hr as an intern, you mentally translate that to $60,000 for a full-time offer at that firm. I’m going to hear back from two places next week and I would absolutely accept either offer but should I try to hide my relief and negotiate salary, just a little? Would it seem ridiculous or professional? Additional context: I’m female and coming from non-profits so negotiating is a strange and scary proposition for me.

    1. MissGirl*

      Just finished my MBA. I interned last summer and did not negotiate as it was obviously a take it or leave it situation. Negotiating is less common in internships versus job offer. It really depends on industry and position and the actual offer. My cohorts who did negotiate was because the offers were fairly low and they had better ones. Most of us took what we given then negotiated at the job stage.

  152. The Tin Man*

    A vent with two questions at the end…

    The background/vent:

    I am six months into a temp-to-perm position and the company I work for has been very positive about my work and stated they would like to bring me on as a permanent employee. This has been the refrain for months. Two months ago I saw HR when my boss left for another position and she said not to worry about my job. I have followed up with her every 2-3 weeks since with a very brief e-mail (e.g. “Just checking in, any update on my employment status?) to keep me in her mind as she the one HR person for several hundred employees. For reference, the person in this role previously was brought on as a permanent employee after 3 months.

    I am comfortable assuming HR’s workload plus the bureaucracy of a very large company combined with them making a new position for me are why it has been delayed. I don’t think they are intentionally stringing me along.

    The Questions:
    1. Is asking for an update every 2-3 weeks too much? I don’t want to annoy her but so little happens in this company without prodding people.

    2. What is good phrasing to ask what is holding things up? I was thinking something along the lines of “Is there something in particular holding things up? Is there anything you need from me to move the process along?” What makes me unsure of this is that I don’t want her to just say “No, I don’t need anything from you.” I want to know why it is taking so long instead of assuming red tape/being short-staffed but don’t want the tone of annoyance that would come with “What is taking so long?”

    1. fposte*

      2-3 weeks probably is too often, unless there’s a deadline approaching soon that they’ve promised to get stuff done by; I would also encourage you to let go of the urge to know exactly what’s blocking it, because if it’s not something she needs from you there’s nothing you can do about it and it does end up being a question that suggests she needs to account for her time. Most likely what’s blocking it is that it’s not a priority for anybody but you–they already have your work, they’re okay with paying the temp agency, your new manager has other stuff to worry about or isn’t behind it in the same way.

      In most companies, the place for you to go with this is your new manager. “Hey, Jane set stuff into motion for my position to move to permanent; I wanted to make sure that was still on the docket and see if there’s a likely timeframe.” Hopefully that’ll give the process a little more juice.

    2. LawCat*

      I’d just ask the HR person about the timeline then check in if they don’t meet it or won’t provide it. “I’m enjoying working here and everyone has been very positive about my work. X months ago, So-and-So said the company would like to bring me on as a full-time employee. Can you give me a sense of the timeline for that transition?”

      In the meantime, since you don’t really know what’s going on in the background that is holding this up and since they’ve been making statements on temp-to-perm for months without delivering (they are stringing you along even if not intentionally), certainly keep your eyes open for other permanent employment opportunities and pursue them.

  153. AK*

    My husband is coworkers with a friend from grad school. They are ski buddies and the three of us have spent lots of time together over the last six years, since we first met, playing board games and hanging out. We are good friends. The Friend just got promoted to fill Husband’s old boss’ vacant position and Friend is now Husband’s direct supervisor.

    Everything I’ve ever read on AAM says this is the end of their friendship, and by extension, I’m guessing it’s also the end of my friendship with Friend as well. Is this true?

    How should we navigate this change?

    1. Schmitt*

      I was promoted over a good friend at my last job. We sat down and had a conversation about it — “I’d hate to lose the friendship, how can we navigate this?”

      It went OK; I was careful to rein back talking about work stuff outside of work, and I’ve always been a hardass at work so that wasn’t much different for him. (Cough.) We also didn’t talk about our friendship at work.

      The ending was hard. Our company lost a big client and my friend was scheduled for a layoff. I knew about it a month in advance and keeping that information confidential – while going to his birthday party etc – was stressful.

  154. Cadbury Cream Egg*

    Hi! I don’t know how many of you are familiar with the Gallup Survey but my organization scored awesome on some parts and poorly on others. One of the things we did poorly on and so want to focus on is recognition (of each other and our employees). Personally I’m one of those people that is okay with an ‘atta boy’ pat on the back and moving on to the next goal but I get that others need more. We’ve just started to look into this further and I’m looking for possibly a managerial/professional development book that focuses on this topic. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks!

    1. not so super-visor*

      Have you read 12: The Elements of Great Managing? It’s the book that actually goes along with the 12 questions from the Gallup survey.

  155. La Revancha del Tango*

    Any readers know good companies to work for that let you work 100% remote (anywhere in the world)? In a couple of years I’m looking to transfer into a remote position so I can live abroad (hoping for Costa Rica). Most of the companies I’ve found have a lot of tech positions and unfortunately that type of work isn’t in my skill-set. Currently, I’m in the commercial real estate field and have general administrative, legal, and marketing experience. I’m also open to US commercial real estate firms with a presence in Central and South America.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      A friend of mine works for Airbnb and seems to enjoy it. She travels for work all the time, but otherwise she works from home and I don’t think they care where home is.

    2. katamia*

      Look up resources for digital nomads. I don’t have any of the links saved, unfortunately, since I already freelance remotely, but I know I’ve seen job search engines recommended on digital nomad sites that focus specifically on remote work.

      You could also look into becoming a virtual assistant. There are some companies out there (off the top of my head Fancy Hands is the only name I remember, though), although IIRC those are US-based, and I’m not sure how open they are to people living in other countries.

      1. La Revancha del Tango*

        Thank you! Also a great idea. I’ve looked into being a virtual assistant before but haven’t checked out Fancy Hands.

    3. JustDoingIt*

      weworkremotely.com might have options for you in other industries—there’s project management, sales… you don’t have to be a developer. :) That sounds amazing, good luck!

    4. Gadfly*

      It is a pay site, but Flexjobs.com curates and verifies (reduce the fraud problem) all sorts of jobs and lets you search for that sort of thing.

  156. Not Rebee*

    I’ve got an interview Monday that appears to be solely for culture fit. It will be with the company executives, in an industry I’m not familiar with, and none of these executives will directly oversee the position I’m going for (or are in positions that are even related). How would you prepare for this kind of interview?

    I’ve already done the “do we think you can do this job” interview with the hiring manager, this one is all about culture fit.

    1. La Revancha del Tango*

      Just be yourself! If you’re generally good with people I think this will go smoothly. Be charming! Talk about your hobbies, what you like to do outside of work, try to relate to them (maybe read up on their bios or LinkedIn and try to find a common interest). Be prepared to answer questions about your style of work and how you work with others. I’ve had a few “culture-fit” interviews and one guy asked what quality would a coworker say is my worst quality. I was thinking um wtf no clue but I just made up something about being a project hoarder (which is true… ha ha).

    2. Rincat*

      I just had one of those with the CIO of my university before being hired into the IT department. We talked a little bit about my work history and my overall career goals, but a lot of time was spent talking about the culture of the IT department, it’s history, what the CIO is hoping to achieve, etc. We also talked about some non-work stuff, like dogs, driving trucks (he saw me getting out of my truck in the parking lot…which also means he saw me lint rolling off all the dog hair on my suit UGH), and just other random stuff. So to prepare, I would put together a brief overview of your work history and goals, maybe even more brief than what you would normally say in an interview. Try to think up some questions about the overall company culture and direction. I tried to ask broader stuff in this interview – I had asked similar things in my first interview, but I wanted to get the bigger picture when talking with the CIO.

    3. CM*

      I would be up on current events and industry news, and would google the execs to see if you can learn anything about them and their interests.

  157. SophieChotek*

    I know I’ve vented a bit before about some similar issues, and I need to get myself out of this rut. [Months ago some commenters were very nice and wrote about earned media, paid media, etc.]

    TL: DR – got not-undserved feedback, stuck in job til I find new one, not quite sure how improve my work until I find new job…

    I just got some feedback from my bosses about needing to bring more “value” to my company — which I admit, I don’t feel like I have brought as much “value” as I would like to. (Like I know i don’t deserve a raise, so I don’t gripe that I don’t get one. I think they get their money’s worth, but nothing beyond.)

    I feel like I certainly try my best (about 90% of the time) but I also feel like…part of the reason I don’t is I am not the right person for the job/their expectations.

    For example: My company wants me to land tons of PR and media, etc. for them…and until I started this job I knew nothing about marketing. And literally the only instructions I got were “well just contact the media and do your best.” (The product is supposed to sell itself to the media?) So I’ve been reading tons of blogs, etc., about PR, media, etc., etc. but almost everything I’ve learned is self-taught. So I wouldn’t be surprised if I sort of suck at PR and media. I would love to have some coaching, etc., but company isn’t doing well so they don’t want to spend money on paying a PR company (ideally to help and coach me) or pay for paid media. (Because that is what I am supposed to be doing–getting them product placement).

    There are a lot of similar related expectations (stepping into corporate training roles, arranging displays)…some of which I could meet a portion of…I mean, I also think their expectations are unrealistic, but I also know I am working for a paycheck (and not because I love the job or even particularly believe in the product).

    I was reading Gini Dietrich’s Spin Sucks blog and she talked about how PR people sometimes think “my company is boring” so they end up with mediocre content…I feel like that is what I am doing. And I have no idea how to make it interesting. How much can I say about Luxury Chocolate Teapots?

    Just floundering today…thanks…

    1. Hrovitnir*

      Oh man: people get education in the likes of PR for a reason! This whole set up sounds ridiculous and I don’t see how you’re supposed to learn an entire field without any support or direction.

      I dunno, maybe just keep doing what you’re doing? Learn as much as you can, apply as much as you can, don’t have too high an expectation of yourself. You could try and push for more direction but it doesn’t sound like they have any idea what they want – other than “make us money, somehow” *handwave*.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Yes “make us money, get us in [appropriate luxury/industry publication” —
        What do you mean no one is interested? Didn’t you tell them how awesome we are? Didn’t you send them awesome photos of our products? You know someone once gave our Luxury Chocolate Teapot to Lord Stark — everyone should be so impressed and want one now…
        That is kind of how I feel…
        Thanks for sympathy. =)

    2. blatantlybianca*

      My initial thoughts based on your comment is that you don’t have a strategy that you’re executing against – meaning a PR plan that maps back to overall business objectives/goals. If you haven’t created this plan, I strongly suggest you start there to center yourself. Tenets of this would include:

      1. Research: what are others in your space doing and where are they sharing their value? Are they using certain tactics like concentrating on specific social media channels or investing in SEO optimization to get their brand message across? What are prospects and customers saying about the industry your business is in? What business problems are they trying to solve?
      2. Personas: who are you trying to reach and why? What problems/pain points do they have that your brand can solve? In short, what’s the WIFFM (what’s in it for me”) factor? How are current customers using the product? This is a really good step to establish a partnership with your Customer Success/Support team and find out who the typical users are, what do they love, what would they add and how do they see the product evolving?
      3. Positioning: what are the key messages you’re trying to convey for your brand? One way to get clear about what you want to communicate is to create a story platform and narratives. For example, let’s say you wanted to talk about teapot design. The narratives could be what goes into teapot design, the actual production of the design and how customers use it. You could also search for brand narratives and storytelling examples for inspiration.
      4. Objectives: how you’re going to measure your success is a good way to start thinking about this. For example, placement in 5 digital magazines or working with 3 local influencers to highlight your product.
      5. Strategy & Tactics: how are you going to achieve the objectives you’ve defined? For example, participate in Twitter Chats to increase awareness, contribute to industry blogs, bump up social media presence, etc.
      6. Reporting: what metrics will you use to report results? How often (monthly/quarterly) and who will be reviewing these results?

      It’s ok to flounder, but the great news is that there are a ton of resources if you search online. I really think having a plan to map back to will greatly increase your confidence! Don’t count yourself out bc others will see that and count you out too.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Thank you so much! I appreciate the time you’ve taken to give me some suggestions. I’ve (tried, half-heartedly, I admit) to try to implement some of these things, but even though I am apparently the US PR person, I’ve had trouble getting anything but general answers to some of these questions — maybe part of the reason I am floundering is because others are floundering too – like the only thing we know is we are supposed to sell…But I am totally copying this down to mediate on this coming week, so thank you!

        1. blatantlybianca*

          You’re very welcome! Another content idea generator is Reddit believe it or not, I voraciously read through many of their marketing communities and often get campaign ideas from there. I hope you hang in there – inspiration is often hard to come by and I know how important it is to feel like you’re contributing something somewhere.

    3. Gadfly*

      As an advertising person (7 years with the advertising arm of two large newspapers and a handful of other products), first I have to point out that far, far more product placement than most people realize (even when it is clearly labeled as such) is paid advertising or connected to it in some way. As someone finishing a marketing degree, and who sat in on a lot of work lectures on the subject, choosing to cut your marketing budget because sales are down is like choosing to double down on killing your market presence.

      You have to spark interest to get interest. And then you have to follow up on that interest and maintain it. There are ways to be creative with a small budget, but even (especially?) Luxury Chocolate Teapots have to be supported with the sort of name recognition that usually requires being ubiquitous, which usually requires paid advertising.

      If you had called any of my papers they would have directed you to advertising, unless you had some great and unique human interest piece and it was a slow news week. They just don’t need the filler.

      If ads are too crass (I’ve been told that), they can do other things to get their names out there (donations and such) but that still takes money and you have to be careful with the market you end up targeting.

      This just is like telling the teapot makers to just go make teapots without giving them money to buy chocolate.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Gadfly – I completely agree with you. (And I have done exactly that — emailed editors, etc., and gotten directed to head of advertising, or sent media kit and spec sheets for ad placements).

        Not to complain (okay, I am). However, my hands are tied — I have been given (surprise) no budget. Every dollar I spend most be approved by my corporate office. They really do expect me to come up with earned media for free — essentially as far as I can tell, the corporate believes their luxury chocolate teapots are just so amazing that everyone really ought to be some bowled over that as soon as a pitch for their filler (think editor’s picks for “gifts for the hard to buy at Xmas” type of thing), our amazing, wonderful, awesome, incredible, stunning, beautiful, unique chocolate luxury teapots should obviously, of course, without doubt, no question be an editors pick every time.

        We finally got a minuscule budget for Facebook ads but that’s about it.

        Honestly, I think influencers would be our best bet…but even those tend to want some money to promote and my company thinks that influencers that will promote our product will love it so much they should do it for free…which I suppose, if they really really really did they would…

        Sorry…venting agan…

        1. Gadfly*

          I am furious on your behalf because that is just so out of touch with reality… Even to get “free influencer” promotions, best case scenarios are A) they stumble across it and fall in love (nothing you can do about that) or B) you keep giving them free product until they decide they love something. NOTHING you can control happens for free, anything you can do will require a budget.

          1. SophieChotek*

            Thanks for your sympathy/understanding (and indignation)! =)
            Glad to know that not everyone things I am nuts for thinking I have been given an almost impossible task. I think my bosses think I am “just not trying hard enough”…

  158. Applesauced*

    I’m getting married!
    It’s very exciting, and I’m thrilled… and I don’t know how (or if?) to tell people at work.
    My coworkers are all nice, but there’s no one I see outside the office, (and no one from work will be invited to our small wedding). Right after we got engaged, it came up (sort of in a “what did you do this weekend?” way) and people were happy for me and said congrats, but since then… if it doesn’t come up, it doesn’t come up? Making an announcement seems over the top and awkward, and I can’t count on people noticing the ring for a while since it’s still at the jeweler’s….
    Did you tell people at work when you got engaged? How?

    1. La Revancha del Tango*

      First of all – Congrats! Very exciting stuff :) I agree that an announcement would be over the top. Of course you’re excited and want to share but if a coworker that I didn’t know well announced in a meeting that she (or he) got engaged this past weekend I would think its a bit off. But if people see the ring and ask then of course it’s okay to share :)

    2. Emi.*

      Congratulations/best wishes! If you’ve already told a couple people in the context of weekend plans, then I’d say just let it filter out from there, or nudge it along by answering future instances of “What did you do this weekend” with “I went to the science museum with my fiance” or “I had dinner at my fiance’s house” or whatever you did.

    4. Kj*

      I told my boss in a one on one meeting and asked for time off for the wedding then. She announced it to the team, but then she is both kind and loves personal news announcements.

  160. Adlib*

    I’ve been working with a vendor to set up their product in my company. I’ve worked closely with them for a while now (almost a year), and I was recently able to have one of their reps on the call while I demo’ed their product to another area of my company. I noticed a month ago they had a position posted for something I could easily fit into and would love to work for them. However, since we are in the middle of things at my current company, should I could contact them about it after-hours? I don’t know if the position is still available, but if they are expanding, I’d like to be in the running if it comes up again. Since we are their biggest client so far, they may not feel comfortable initiating contact with me themselves. Basically, I just want them to know I’m interested if they are still in need of a person. I have good relationships so far with everyone at this vendor. Am I just crazy in even thinking about doing this?

    1. Rincat*

      I don’t think you’re crazy at all, most of the vendors I have worked with seem to hire from their client pool, typically in the account manager or “solutions engineer” positions, things like that. I say if you’re interested, reach out!

  161. Candy*

    My boss drives me crazy with her micro-managing. I work at a university library and am in charge of printing out the signs with the library’s hours when they change. I have worked here for ten years — I know when the library’s hours change. I am aware of holidays and reading break and exam period and semester break… all of it. I know it. I have a calendar. It’s not difficult and I am not stupid. AND YET my manager consistently sends me emails not only to remind me to change the signs but TO ALSO LET HER SEE A DRAFT. Besides the fact that in ten years I have NEVER made a mistake to the date or the hours, this is such a simple, recurring task I sincerely wonder if I can just ask her, how stupid do you think I am if you feel you have to remind me to do this every month? I legitimately feel like her asking to see drafts of a set template that I simply change the dates and times to insults my intelligence.

    1. RVA Cat*

      This is her crazy, not yours. Maybe she screwed up something like this herself at OldJob and is still neurotic about it?

      1. Candy*

        Maybe! The guy who worked here before me was a bit of a flake so maybe she had to remind him? But ten years is a long time to hold on to one bad experience!

    2. Zahra*

      Maybe send her the whole set at the beginning of the school year so she can check them all?

        1. Zahra*

          That won’t solve the emails to remind you to change the signs, though. May I suggest to setup “meetings” in Outlook (or whatever you use for email/calendar) on the dates when you should post them? That could reassure her that you won’t forget about them. You could even invite her if she’d rather.

  162. Antti*

    So this is really done and over with and I’m OK with the result, but I’m curious what y’all think about this.

    Next week is Holy Week, the week before Easter Sunday, and my church has two services on Maundy Thursday and Good Friday. Normally I’d be going to the evening service on both those days, but this year I ended up with an orchestra gig for the local ballet (I’m also a freelance musician), and the tech week rehearsals rolled right over those evening services. It’s really important to me that I attend, so my only other option was to work out how to go to the midday services instead.

    I brought this up to my boss as a possible two-day schedule adjustment to lengthen my lunch and I would come in early and stay late. We found out that there might be some special time reserved for this though and my boss asked HR about it. Apparently, there is such time available, but to be approved for it there either has to be only one service available (during the workday) or all available services must be during my normal workday. So even though the whole reason I was looking for this accommodation was because I simply cannot do the evening service, I wouldn’t have been approved for that time.

    Like I said, it worked out because we were able to just adjust my schedule like I’d originally planned on, but I find that policy to be rather…rigid. I don’t know, does that sound normal to y’all, or does it sound like it’s on the less reasonable side of things?

    1. Longtime Lurker*

      You are unable to attend the evening service because you made a commitment Job B, not because your commitment to Job A prevented you from doing so. Job A’s response was reasonable in this circumstance.

      1. Antti*

        Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I got stuck on the thought that “well, this is all work, is it not?” and didn’t look at it from that perspective.

    2. INeedANap*

      I don’t know, it sounds pretty reasonable to me. Your job offers special time to attend religious services when there is an irreconcilable conflict between your work hours and the services. To a businesses’ mind, if there are evening services available, it is your choice whether to do your freelance work or attend services.

      I mean, I sympathize in that I’m sure it’s not as easy as it sounds – there are professional and financial stakes in freelance work just as in “normal” day work – but when looked at from a business perspective, as long as there are religious services available during the times you’re not obligated to be at work, I don’t see why they would offer special time.

      1. Antti*

        That makes sense now that I see it. I think I was getting stuck in the idea that it was all work that was getting in the way here. And for sure, they’re being otherwise quite reasonable by adjusting my schedule so that I’m still working the same amount of hours that day and not forced to dip into PTO and such.

        This is why I like asking other people this kind of stuff; I’m usually pretty good about considering multiple perspectives on stuff, but when I went into this already annoyed that I was going to have to try making these adjustments, I just did not get my mind far enough over into my employer’s viewpoint.

    3. Princess Carolyn*

      I guess it depends on the type of work you do. In most of my jobs, this kind of response would be unnecessarily rigid; many white collar/professional jobs are able to shuffle something like this around without trouble. It would be similar for things like taking your car to the shop, occasional trouble with daycare, a sick pet, etc. Heck, I’ve had bosses give me flexibility like this to watch a basketball game I really cared about.

      But, in many positions and situations, the other responses’ logic would hold up. Particularly in situations where coverage is really important, it would make sense that they’re only willing/able to be flexible when you truly can’t find another time to worship.

      1. Antti*

        Yeah, this is definitely a job where coverage is important. That does make sense, like I said in my other responses. I’m just glad that there’s enough flexibility that they could just adjust my schedule for those two days.

  163. Sparkly Librarian*

    I encountered a famous person at work this week and didn’t embarrass myself. (This is definitely due to me being in work persona and not my awkward off-the-clock self.)

    They’re kind of internet-famous-in-certain-circles, but mostly for writing, so I didn’t recognize them by sight. When I started opening the account and asked for ID, and saw their name, it clicked. I did NOT clue them in that I knew kind of a lot about them/their personal life, or that I had been reading their work for years and was kind of a big fan, or anything silly like that. Because how weird and uncomfortable it must be to receive greetings like that when out of context of your arena of fame. #professionalethics

    1. Jillociraptor*

      Being foolish in front of a famous person I admire is one of my biggest fears, so way to go on keeping your cool! Also, exciting to meet someone slightly famous!

      Our campus has a self-described “conservative provocateur” speaking in the coming weeks, who has been calling our office (which is really not responsible for this event itself, just for the response when it inevitably becomes a protest) repeatedly with various concerns and demands about the event. So. My famous person encounters for the week have been decidedly less fun!

      1. RVA Cat*

        If it’s who I think it is, I am completely unsurprised by him being a d-bag in his personal life….

    2. Lillian Styx*

      I like to think the lesser-known notables actually enjoy being recognized. I used to work summers at a concert venue backstage and I saw SO many hugely famous people (Jennifer Aniston once looked at me IN MY EYES) but, like you, I was able to act professionally.

      Except with the baseball players… I couldn’t help it. Dudes from one of the local MLB teams kept showing up backstage and I couldn’t not say hi to them. They were all SO nice. Ah, I miss that job.

  164. Mina*

    I’ve been very curious about this : was the thread about the bird vs. Jack the most commented on to date?

    1. Emi.*

      At 2,222, it’s beaten out the Great Norovirus Debate (1,458), which is the only thing that comes to my mind as a good contender.

  165. AnonMurphy*

    (note – I accidentally posted this as a reply on another thread when I meant to make it its own thing. Sorry for the double post.)

    Did I do the right thing?

    I took a leave from work to get my depression and attendant meds wrangled back under control. It had been probably a year-and-a-half since I really felt like myself, dealing with lots of chronic fatigue and pain, and most of it stemmed from bad meds. The GOOD news is that I’m back to work and feeling SO. MUCH. BETTER.

    In the interim, my boss took another position and I now report to a new boss. I don’t know New Boss very well, but I had always been open with Old Boss about how things were with my medical condition. So in our first meeting, I talked to New Boss about the leave I had taken and explained that yes, I’m being treated for depression, and my meds had been bad and my other numbers (like blood pressure) went crazy in response. I stressed that I LOVE my current role, which I’ve been in for 6 months, and that the problems were not work-based, I don’t need any accommodations, and everything is now under control. But I told New Boss that I’d rather my situation was clear to him, especially if I have a bad day or week in the future. As part of the same discussion we talked about allowing time to build up trust (which I don’t think will be an issue as we’ve been sort-of colleagues for the past year).

    Obviously I know I’m under zero obligation to disclose stuff like this. I feel much better that he knows the score and I don’t need to dodge or obfuscate what happened with him. I know it may color how he sees me, but does anyone see this as an automatic bad thing? If your employee came to you with this, is it just a good-to-know if you know that person is a hard worker with lots of accountability? Or did I burden New Boss by sharing this?

    1. Blue Anne*

      I don’t think that’s an automatic bad thing. I’ve done similar with my anxiety in the past. It’s useful for managers to know and if you’re in a workplace where you’re confident enough to mention it, I think that’s a good indicator that you won’t be penalized for it in that workplace.

      Being open with my managers about my anxiety has really paid off in the past.

    2. Jillociraptor*

      It sounds like you handled this really well! Some people are weird about knowing information like this, but if I were your boss, I would really appreciate understanding this about my employee.

  166. Office Mercenary*

    It might be too late for this question, but here goes:

    My work history is extremely spotty because I had a lot of health problems during my 20s. I got healthy, went to grad school, and did really well. Now I’ve graduated and I’m putting all my energy into getting my career back on track, first and foremost by trying to accumulate experience with something other than academia (even though academia is what I’m good at). I’m applying to entry-level positions but find it hard to explain what I’ve been doing with my time all these years. More specifically, I did a lot of admin work through temp agencies, which isn’t always relevant to positions that I’m applying for. If I leave them on my resume, it makes my resume way too long, but if I leave them off, then there are huge gaps in my history. Anyone have any advice? How should I address this in my cover letter?

    1. fposte*

      My first thought is that you’re making it really hard for yourself by applying out of academia, if you’re good at academia and you have a recent grad school degree hot in your hand that means more to academics than outside of it. Is that worth reconsidering? You can move out of academia later, too.

      In the meantime, I’d consider a roundup for the temping time; if you were over a year at any one temp agency or location I might break it out separately. If this is pretty much it for your skills portion, I’d give a really solid overview of your skills and achievements in that era within the roundup.

      1. Office Mercenary*

        I’m considering PhD programs, especially since I love doing research. (I’m not too excited about teaching, but I’d do my best.) I don’t want to stay in academia forever so I’m trying to identify programs that produce a lot of practitioners and/or policy makers, or at least programs that have strong field work components and quantitative training, which would be more transferable. My ideal career path would be a few years of practice, then a PhD or mid-career Master’s, followed by policy or advocacy. Of course, life isn’t always ideal, so I’m trying to keep my options open.

    2. Thlayli*

      I’m pretty sure I saw something in the archives for this so you should search. if it’s a lot of similar work then you could group them together like:

      “Temporary office administrator, various organisations, 2011 – 2015”

      You can add more info with the info about your duties e.g. If you have bullet points for the duties then add an extra bullet point explaining in more detail if you think it’s needed e.g:
      – a number of temporary roles lasting between 2 weeks and 6 months, total experience 2 years

  167. Former Cemetery Admin Clerk*

    I have been putting in a lot of applications and occasionally they reply back that they want to interview me through Google Hangout. I have never heard of this until now.

    Is this legit? Has anyone ever gotten a job this way? Or is this a scam?

    1. AnonMurphy*

      I’d be pretty leery of this, most especially if they’re local (i.e., not you’re on one coast and they’re on the other). If it’s actually, like, Google or Apple or something, maybe. Typically a phone screen is the first step in my company.

    2. katamia*

      If they’re local, it’s a little weird IMO, and also a little weird that you seem to be getting different companies who all want to interview you through Google Hangouts. The only interview like that I’ve had (through Skype, not Google Hangouts) was because the company was in a different company and it wasn’t realistic for me to go there just for an interview.

    3. Alex*

      I’ve had on camera Skype interviews for jobs outside of my region. These were for jobs at universities, so I knew they were legit. It’s essentially just a phone interview, but you can see each other. I actually preferred it to a phone interview where it can be hard to tell who is talking and if they’re looking bored or you see their reactions to your answers. Interviews in general make me nervous, but it’s not anything out of the ordinary, in my line of work anyway.

    4. CAA*

      Google Hangouts is a legit piece of web conferencing software that’s created by Google. It’s getting more popular with businesses. Skype is owned by Microsoft, so if you’re getting people who want to interview you via Hangouts, I’d just take that as an indication that the company is probably using the Google ecosystem — Gmail / Calendar / Google Docs / etc — and may not be using MS Office applications.

      Hangouts itself is not a scam, but I guess someone could use it to “interview” you for something like an MLM pyramid scheme that’s not a real job. The same thing could happen with Skype or an in-person interview though, so the fact that it’s via Hangouts is not any more of a red flag than any other interview type.

      1. Ob*

        Yeah, my last company was very into google hangouts. We only conducted interviews over it for out-of-area candidates though

  168. Cruciatus*

    I have an Excel question. I have this nearly constant problem where when I click a cell it acts like I’m clicking way more cells than I am. It’s absolutely infuriating and doesn’t happen every single time (but right now it won’t quit.) I’ve closed/opened again. Saved. Clicked away from where I want to click. I have looked it up online and I found something about it being an extended selection but it’s not that. I’ve updated it to a compatible version of Excel. I know it may just be a known problem with no solution since that’s what the internet seems to be implying regarding this. But maybe one of you know an answer. I would be grateful as almost everything I need to do requires one cell at a time and it is taking forever to get simple things done!

    Two more weeks in this position! News went out to everyone today that I’m leaving (to another department). So far everyone is making me feel like I really did well in the position, so that is nice.

    1. Rebecca*

      You may have tried this, so I’m sorry if it’s repetitive. A while back, I had weird mouse problems, not only in Excel but in my Outlook program as well, things double clicking instead of just a single click, that type of thing. It was so frustrating. I switched mouses (mice?), got a new one from supply, and the problem went away. I never really thought an optical mouse could go bad, but apparently it did.

      1. fposte*

        Alternatively, I run into stuff like that on my laptop, and it seems to be because there’s some pressure on the front of the trackpad from my pants waist or my abdomen. So check that.

        1. AnonMurphy*

          That too. I’ve disabled my trackpad on my home laptop because I have a wireless mouse and otherwise I flight the cursor all over the place when typing.

    2. AnonMurphy*

      I did some quick googling – things to try:
      – is your Shift key sticky? (this was my first thought)
      – Change zoom level of your document up or down (this was mentioned as a temporary fix for bugs involving Extended Selection).
      – Change page layout between Normal, Page Layout, and Page Break Preview (the 3 boxes at the bottom right hand corner of excel spreadsheet) then back to Normal.
      – What worked was – continuously hit Shift key; when asked to enable Sticky Keys – hit cancel
      – Excel options>Advanced. Under Lotus Compatibility, make sure the Transition Navigation Keys checkbox is not checked

      I have accidentally turned sticky keys on by mistake.

      1. Zahra*

        BTW: Sticky keys control is in the Control Panel/Ease of Access.
        If you don’t have access to that section, you can also google “regedit sticky keys” to know how to change the registry and disable the sticky keys. Always backup the registry before making any changes.

    3. PseudoMona*

      This happens to me too. Zooming in on the page is the only fix that works for me.

    4. Cruciatus*

      Thank you everyone! I will keep a link to this to keep trying new solutions. Zooming did seem to help, but it still gave me the extra cells on occasion, but if I zoomed in then out again I got a lot more time to actually click one single cell (and I couldn’t keep zooming in or else I couldn’t see what I was doing, even on my widest monitor.) I did wonder about my mouse as it sometimes acts up and maybe next week I will find an extra one to see if that helps at all (and will look into all the other suggestions). Thank you again!

  169. Anna*

    Does anyone have any advice for finding a skilled volunteer position? I’m trying to volunteer more, but I’m having a hard time finding openings. I’ve found a few that want shifts during normal work hours, so it’s not possible to do that with my current job. I’ve also found several organizations that want volunteers for circulating petitions and phone banking, which I wouldn’t mind doing for a little while, but I’m very much a behind the scenes person and not well suited for that type of work. I have marketable skills that I think these organizations would find useful, but I don’t want to come off as presumptuous, or undermine anyone on their payroll. Any advice is much appreciated!

    3. Chaordic One*

      I volunteer for the local Friends of the Library group. Most of the work is done after 5:00 pm and Saturday. There’s a lot of behind the scenes work, stuff like managing the friends membership database, updating the social media and websites, helping to craft letters and emails to the members and to potential members and donors. When I first started I kind of came in low-key and then as time went by and things came up I would step up and say something like, “Oh, I can update the database” or “I’ll be happy to write an email or form letter to send out to the membership.” Of course, I had other members check anything I wrote for spelling, grammar and tone before I sent it out.

  170. Corky's wife Bonnie*

    Has anyone with a full time desk job ever had rotator cuff issues? This is a first for me, and what’s happening right now is I’m getting physical therapy and the doctor will see me in four weeks. I had my first session last night and my shoulder is totally throbbing today. What did you do to make yourself more comfortable? Pillow, special equipment, etc? I just can’t seem to get in the right position, and so far all I can figure out is keeping my arm tucked into my side and navigating the mouse and keyboard as best as I can. Of course, it’s my right shoulder and I’m right handed, this is frustrating.

    1. Liz*

      I rest my elbow on the arm of my chair and it’s in just the right spot that I can keep my arm near my side and use the keyboard and mouse fine. Would a wireless mouse allow you to find a more comfortable position?
      Not to give medical advice, but I’ve found foam rolling to work wonderfully in loosening up my shoulder.

    2. Aurion*

      Before pillows and special equipment, I’d make sure your desk setup is as ergonomic as possible. That means proper keyboard height (keyboard below your wrists), good keyboard placement (your elbows are close by your ribs, not reaching forward to type), monitor at a good height, seat at a good height, feet flat on floor/stable surface, etc. It won’t fix any rotator cuff issues, but man, lousy ergonomics when your shoulder is already in a bad place sucks extra. I can’t even last a day without decent ergonomics at my desk anymore.

      I’d also suggest trying to train yourself into mousing left-handed; I did when I injured my (right) rotator cuff. If your keyboard has a number pad that means you have to reach further to mouse with your right hand; the left hand has no such issue. It took me maybe a week or two to adapt to mousing with my left hand, and now I prefer it unless I really need extra fine detail work.

      1. Corkey's wife Bonnie*

        Thanks, I’ll try mousing on the left hand. For the most part my work station is pretty good ergonomically, but it’s kind of old and the shape can’t be re-worked.

        1. Anony Oz*

          Have you got a shortened keyboard (no num pad) so you can mouse closer to your centre line? You might benefit from an ergonomic mouse. These things fixed my probs almost immediately.

  171. oranges & lemons*

    Does anyone have tips on how to get better at schmoozing? I don’t mean in the obnoxious, pushy way, but more just about how to make a quicker connection with strangers and project more confidence. As some background, I’m a fairly socially anxious person, although I’ve gotten better and generally have pretty warm, friendly work relationships. I’m not bad at making chit-chat when the stakes are low, but when I know I’m supposed to impress someone (a client, say), I just freeze up. Has anyone learned to overcome this? How do you do it??? It doesn’t help that it’s pretty rare that I have to do this, so I don’t have a lot of opportunities to practice.

    1. Jillociraptor*

      First, I think pretty much everyone is at least a little flattered by being asked about themselves. Questions like, “Oh, that sounds interesting! How did you end up in that career?” “I don’t know a lot about that! What are some of the biggest challenges in that field?” If you’re thinking about clients, you probably know a little bit about their business, so you might think of a few recent developments in their field to ask them about. When I’m meeting someone with somewhat high stakes (like a funder or potential partner organization), I literally sit down and brainstorm things to talk to them about because I am a weirdo extemporaneously.

      Second, I have been working really hard on my ability to schmooze, and one thing I try to do is make small talk everywhere it’s appropriate. Uber drivers are great for this. If they seem to be interested in a conversation, I will chat to them about anything. I love asking them about their longest or weirdest rides, but I’ve also had some pretty poignant conversations with drivers, and some just weird and hilarious.

      Finally, I think the best thing you can do to make good conversation is to be interesting. Read stuff, notice stuff, have a few neutral but entertaining stories at the ready, and a couple of recent news stories or facts you learned ready to share. I read Harvard Business Review a few times a week and there’s always SOMETHING in there that I can draw on when I’m meeting with someone.

      1. Thlayli*

        Second this! Most people LOVE to talk about themselves. just keep it light and try not to ask about anything that could be considered offensive, Which these days can be pretty difficult.

        “Doing anything nice for the weekend” is a good starter. if they look happy about their plans then ask more about that. “Oh spending time with the kids, that’s great. How old are they?” “Oh wow a gig, have you seen them before?” Etc. If they look unhappy about their plans then sympathise. “Oh I hear you! Spring cleaning is such a drag. Hope you get through it alright.”

        If you’re not sure if they are happy or sad about their plans then change the subject. This is where the beauty of the “anything for the weekend” question really comes into play. If the topic is one you are not comfortable discussing or you’re not sure where to go next you can quickly change the subject by talking about your own plans and it is just a perfectly natural fit in the conversation. And then you can use your plans to invite a second response from them.

        “I’ll be spending most of the weekend watching Netflix. Have you got Netflix?”

        If they don’t give a response conducive to conversation the second time then just leave it. Not everyone feels like chatting every day.

        “Ok well I better get back to work. See you later”

        1. Thlayli*

          Oh the other really good thing about this is that you then have a ready made conversation starter next time.

          “How was the gig/kids/spring cleaning?”

          Then they love you because you remember them and their thing.

    2. Temperance*

      I think what makes it easier is doing it more often, on a lower-stakes scale. Some people recommend Toastmasters, but that doesn’t interest me, so I join local clubs of interest and meet people that way. I am strange and socially awkward by nature.

      What I do is act like I think a confident person would act. Totally hokey, but it works for me.

  172. Autumn*

    Hi everyone:
    Another heart-breaking week–second interview and nothing. Over the last year, after sending in about 65 applications, I’ve had 15 interviews and only one second interview. Once people meet me, something goes wrong.

    Anyways, I came across a job posting for an amazing non-profit with fantastic benefits. Normally, a position like this on Indeed would have over 100 applicants after a month. This one has 30. I tried applying to it twice and for several reasons, didn’t bother finishing it. (I’m applying for a job, not a security clearance.) Would it be worth contacting their HR department and asking them if I could bypass the obnoxious application and just send in my regular materials? I realize it’s a long shot. As a creative, I’m constantly amazed at how many recruiters don’t realize the importance of a portfolio.

  173. Chameleon*

    Fellow teachers–I have a bit of a tricky situation:

    I am a fairly recent PhD, and I’ve been teaching at a community college for the past six months (which is what I want to do with my degree). I am one of only two faculty in the Biology department. This quarter, I took on a section of a class that is normally only taught by the other Biology teacher, and she helpfully provided me with all of her materials so the different sections would be on track with each other and so I didn’t have to do too much work crafting the course.

    Here’s my problem: I have caught, so far, two major factual errors in her lecture slides. This is not just stuff that is kind of misinterpreted, it is just simply and completely WRONG. (For fellow bio majors: she called DNA a protein and the bases amino acids; and she said that during transcription one strand of DNA was used for an mRNA template but the other strand was replicated into new DNA, and that the mRNA template strand was then degraded.) I corrected it in my own lectures, and taught the students the actual facts, but I’m not sure what to do now.

    This class is for non-majors, and most of these students will probably never need to know any of this info once they finish the course, but still. She should not be teaching wrong information! Here’s the tricky part–she’s been teaching a lot longer than me (and overall I think is a better teacher). I also don’t think she’d take my corrections all that well, and since she’s the only other person in my department, she’s also literally the only coworker I see on any regular basis, so I really don’t want to turn the relationship toxic. Still, I feel like I have some responsibility. Should I tell my dean? Or should I just let it go?

    3. More Anonty*

      I tutor biology at community college. You cannot BELIEVE the things I see on instructors’ materials.

      Worst part for me isn’t worrying about the professional relationships, but rather knowing that it could take up to 2 hours to explain an edit like the one you just described. I’ve been feeling really torn lately about my value and what’s feasible lately, as so many of my students are so grossly underprepared. There’s a lot of pressure to work miracles and be more passionate and that failure is always the fault of an educator giving up on a student, but there’s a base level of fundamental skills and understand of the way the world works that just needs to be there. So sometimes I feel tempted to just get them through.

      If, though, I felt like the student could handle the correction, I would go for it.

      In my last job, I probably torched my work relationships. The non-faculty staff don’t really value the education portion enough to overlook that I spoke up and risked alienating my coworkers. The faculty felt a bit stuck in their situation and probably resented a peon invading their meeting to call attention to something. But we had an ongoing problem with misinformation on chemistry slides int he biology lectures (for the Chapter 2 lectures. It’s always Chapter 2). I was struggling so badly at work trying to clean up the mess, but worried that I’d be making things worse that I went and asked how can we make sure we are being more clear and consistent. I don’t know that it went anyway, but I felt better after. I didn’t have a lot to lose, though.

      1. Chameleon*

        Heh. I just taught the Chemistry chapter–in both books I use it was…Chapter 2.

    4. Spoonie*

      If you need the course materials again, just keep your corrected slides. Otherwise…let it go. Use any political capital you have on something else.

    5. More Anonty*

      Also, I think the sad thing is that nothing good will come to you if you mention it. The only other people that care about the biology are well, noone? If it’s just you two.

      And in higher ed, people will probably think you’re being overly critical and have no idea just how massively incorrect this is. To which I say, why even require the class if you’re going to make stuff up? Students would literally be better off not taking her class.

      I think this may be just one thing you have to learn to deal with. Incompetency isn’t really something higher ed cares much about.

    6. Lizard*

      As a student I would be so pissed to be learning wrong information. Is there a tactful way you can bring it up?Instead of phrasing it as a correction, phrase it like you’re asking her advice to help you become a better teacher. Ask her why she teaches x way when you were taught to teach y way, has her experience shown this to be a better method? You don’t have to push the issue, but at least you’ll have brought it to her attention.

    7. Dr. KMnO4*

      Fellow academic. Let it go.

      Yeah, she shouldn’t be teaching incorrect info. But you might jeopardize your relationship/standing/position if you bring it up. If the information is non-critical to the students you are teaching then it’s best to not risk turning her against you.

    8. animaniactoo*

      If she’s been teaching a lot longer than you have, it’s also likely that some of her info is out of date.

      I would approach this not from an “I’m right stance”, but rather a “Hey Jane, I noticed that you have this way on your slide about DNA/RNA. I was taught Y, and have checked that against [reputed publication a] and [reputed publication b] which seem to agree with me. Is there some disagreement about which is correct that you know about? Would you mind looking into this further with me?”

      1. Chameleon*

        No, this is stuff that has been known for 50-100 years. But it looks like I’ll just be pulling an Elsa on this one. I can teach my own students the correct info, and not worry about hers.

      2. More Anonty*

        I kind of like this tactic, but I think it would have to be amended. Some of the incorrect information is on something just so absolutely fundamental to general biology, that I don’t think you could get away with it being outdated information. I mean, I’m sure within a decade we’ll learn that we were wrong about the way things work, but this instructor is just so, so wrong that it’s not about new discoveries or wrong theories or misunderstanding. It’s a mislabeling of the building blocks–both the literal building blocks of biologically significant macromolecules and and the figurative building blocks to understanding. I mean, we’re learning new things and caveats to the central dogma* of DNA ->RNA -> Protein seemingly every month, but this instructor doesn’t know what DNA, RNA, and protein ARE. Or for some reason isn’t letting students know what they are.

        Maybe there is something to the non-correcting type of correction, though. I do wonder if it’s too transparent, though. I think the other instructor may catch on, too easily. I’m wondering if maybe the OP can, if they choose to talk to the new instructor about the mistake, mention that they only brought it up because they found this subject was common source of confusion in students? I mean, there ARE a good chuck of people who confuse amino acids with nucleic acids, and I think it’s because they are the nitrogenous macromolecules discussed. Maybe that could be some sort of entry point? I know I’ve had more success with this topic when I remind students that nucleic acids are also ‘polynucleotides’ and then emphasize the monomer, dimer, polymer progression.

        This is breaking my heart because I really think this new instructor has a lot more to lose than gain professionally by bringing it up, and it’s not in their self-interest to do so. But then that’s one the major problems in higher ed: treating it as an employment center rather than a learning center. That new instructors’ employment may be so tenuous that they can’t advocate for students or the mission of the college.

    9. Hrovitnir*

      Oh my god, I couldn’t even finish reading the replies. That is… off the planet awful. I believe the people with experience saying let it go (and honestly my first thought as I started reading this was “I see where this is going and I can’t see any way this could go well”), but calling DNA protein?? That shit could confuse people forever or give them the impression they can’t trust any of their teachers if and when they discover there’s stuff that wrong in their education. *twitch*

      Now I’m really depressed.

    10. More Anonty*

      I’m still really thinking about this thread.

      You mentioned that you’re one of two faculty members in biology. Is that total? Or are there a fleet of adjuncts/part-time instructors. Are there any other instructional support staff (tutors, SI instructors, lab instructors, etc.)?

      You mention that it’s a non-majors course, but could this instructor be passing this information along in other courses? Could they be passing it along to health science majors? I know that nursing and health science students aren’t majoring in science and often just want to get the part about patient care, but I can’t help be feel like there is a responsibility here that the school has not to misinform potential nurses and healthcare workers about the most basic tenets of life.

      I wouldn’t say I’m encouraging you to go to a dean, and I do hope you find a good way to just write this off as a feature of higher ed, but if you DO decide to approach your coworker or otherwise not drop it, I think you could cite that you weren’t just being critical or petty and that you were worried about the college’s responsibility to the community.

      Also, this instructor is at least kind enough to share materials, but what else does she do? If you’re at a comm college, isn’t the emphasize of the job on course instruction and education? Are there too many research or outreach or administrative responsibilities to keep up with lesson planning? Is the workload too high? Are there not textbooks? Because I really don’t understand how this instructor can be using a book and not notice that every year each edition contradicts her. Are students left without a book, and just these shoddy slides? Or are they paying for a book and then being tested on contradictory material? If there are other class resources, the fact that no students have caught on is a testament to the fact that overall this is inconsequential and they aren’t really learning anything anyway.

      2. Chameleon*

        It’s really just me and her. I *am* the part-time adjunct. It’s actually a technical college, so it’s focused a lot more on job training than education for education’s sake. There are a lot of nursing/medical assistant/pharmacy tech faculty but while they are in the same building they are in a completely different division. Incorrect Faculty teaches the basic Bio course, this basic human bio course where I found the errors, Microbiology, and a high school bio class. I pretty much only teach A&P.

        This class is a requirement for programs like esthetician and cosmetology, so students aren’t generally terribly interested in the details of science. The textbook of course contradicts the slides, but I would guess that the students either think they misunderstand and are too intimidated to speak up; or (more likely) they don’t really care.

    11. Chameleon*

      Thanks for the input everyone. I am going to let it go for now–my students will get the correct info, at least. As I continue using the materials, I’m going to have a sharp eye out for further issues, though…if there are bigger errors in here I may change my mind. The students may not care, but I sure as heck care if people are getting a botched scientific education. Science is in enough trouble in this country right now as it is.

  174. Can't Sit Still*

    I feel like I’ve been bombarded by people who are “networking” since I started working at NewJob. Former co-workers, perfect strangers, people I haven’t seen or heard from in years, they all want me to help them get a job here. I can’t help feeling resentful – I haven’t heard from you in years! Or we’ve never even met! You never contacted me before, not to ask how I was doing or to catch up or to meet for lunch or coffee or anything. But now I work for a cool company, and you want my help? Can’t you at least pretend to be interested in me and not my job? Sheesh.

    At least try to be subtle – Hey, congrats on the new job! How do you like working there? We should have lunch soon!

    The cherry on top was the former co-worker who quit OldJob in a huff several months ago, didn’t say goodbye, didn’t leave any contact information, didn’t have anything lined up, and, completely out of the blue this week, wants me to help her get a job here. That’s the extent of her message. We used to have lunch together often, so that would be a natural invitation, but nope. Gimme a job.

    I’ve never worked at a hot company before, only staid, established organizations. People who have found themselves working at THE place to work – how do you cope? Does it die down eventually? Do you have to be suspicious of every single person who wants to “network”? Does it eventually stop being annoying and start being a fact of life?

    1. Former Journalist*

      I used to be a journalist and had a lot of these. Yes, I wrote for some really cool outlets (such as a British paper beginning with G) but I worked really hard to get that work. I mostly researched and pitched ideas; it took years for outlets like that to come directly to me with things they wanted. It wasn’t so much freelancers I knew well as a lot of them wrote for the same titles as me and it was also considered rude and vulture-ish to instantly ask for the editor’s details when someone just had a piece published.

      So it tended to be people I knew less well. People I was at school with and hadn’t seen in years. The ex-boyfriend of someone I was at school with Facebook messaged asking for advice about freelancing, then sent me to BEC stage by saying he was “very up for teaming up on anything cool you have on the shelf”. Right, because if I actually need to outsource or collaborate on work I won’t go to someone with experience who I trust and can rely on, I’ll just ask someone I haven’t seen for 12 years.

      It’s okay to completely ignore these. Or to just tell them to check the jobs page, if you have one. Or to answer like it’s a social email and ignore what they asked.

    2. Gadfly*

      I don’t know what to advise you, but as a random job seeker who sometimes comments on the same blog and who has no idea what you do, would you help me get a job there?

      ;)

      I would expect it will die down just because you’ll run through the old contacts crass enough to that and the perfect strangers and new contacts will be a smaller group and easier to write off?

    3. Oscar Madisoy*

      “You never contacted me before, not to ask how I was doing or to catch up or to meet for lunch or coffee or anything. But now I work for a cool company, and you want my help?”

      Just throwing this out… I’ve fantasized giving a similar response if I won the lottery and all of a sudden everybody wanted to be my friend, but it’s also applicable in this situation. Just ask them why they never tried to get in touch with you before you got the gig at HotJob.

      “The cherry on top was the former co-worker who quit OldJob in a huff several months ago, didn’t say goodbye, didn’t leave any contact information, didn’t have anything lined up, and, completely out of the blue this week, wants me to help her get a job here.”

      How arrogant. How f*****g arrogant. It would probably result in more trouble that it’s worth, but it would be so cool to write back: “Why?”

  175. Bree*

    Does anyone have an annual performance evaluation tool they actually like? My small non-profit currently has this really long, onerous form that really doesn’t make sense for a team of 8 people! Can anyone recommend/tell me about a simple approach/tool that ensures people are meeting their goals and setting new ones, but isn’t time-consuming or stressful to fill out?

  176. NJ Anon*

    Having the most bizarro work search scenerio. Back story-I worked at a nonprofit for 11 years. ED left, new ED came in and forced all management out (myself included). I jumped from the fire into the fire. My own fault. Have been here for 2.5 years and have been looking to get out. Have sent many cover letters and resumes, have had some interviews and then hit the skids. I was burnt out from my job, burnt out from job hunting, etc, etc. Just when I was in the depths of despair, I was asked by a recruiter to interview for a similar position: Nonprofit, same pay, same insanity, closer commute. I probably wouldn’t take if if offered. Sent my resume in for a remote staff accountant position. Less pay, work from home, no commute, great bennies, opportunities for advancement, etc. etc. Just got an email from a different recruiter for a different type of nonprofit position (private school vs social services). $20k more thank I make now, shorter commute but would most likely have to dress up more for work and also shorter commute than now. Feast or famine!

  177. Anxa*

    I am having some serious issues lately at controlling my class envy of people at work. I work part-time at a decent hourly wage, but between the lack of benefits and nickel-and-diming on getting paid, I don’t make much. I’m lucky to break 5 figures some years.

    The work I do at my organization is, IMO, mission-critical. I’m an institutional tutor so I don’t expect to be comfortable, but I’m still getting resentful. I think the part that gets to me most is that while I know my job isn’t skilled labor, I’m being out-earned by many other workers who don’t really seem to have many more special skills than I do. And it’s not just the money. In fact, it’s hardly the money. It’s mostly the lack of benefits, lack of an office space, getting side-eyed for using employee resources as a lowly temp worker who works the same job some students do, condescending remarks, etc.

    So many people have full-time jobs with benefits at this place, and I really can’t imagine that I couldn’t handle the same work if given the opportunity. I want to sell out and go to the dark side! I just can’t seem to make the transition.

    I think my resentment issues flew out of control this week because there’s been a big push to do professional development workshops, but people were very unwelcoming of me once they knew what I did. Plus, I don’t get paid for just being at work, so I feel like an hour spent on applications elsewhere may be better. And it’s hard for me to block out hours just in case I have a chance at getting paid for the hour. For example, I may have paid work from 9-11am, then a gap of unpaid time from 11 to 1. I could get a last minute call and snag an hour. So it’s actually a pretty big deal for me to register and commit to these things. So I feel pretty dejected when I feel like I’m being judged as naive or clueless for thinking I’m part of the staff. There’s also going to be an appreciation initiative for my category of workers and it’s making me ill. It’s actually painful to see these superficial appreciation events. There’s just so much cheerleading in this environment, but no actual support or respect.

    I’ve been very down about my career prospects the past few months, wondering if I’ll EVER find a toehold, and I’m worried I’m not being my best self at work as it is. I don’t really have a lot of face time with supervisors and only really work with one coworker to any significant degree, but I still worry.

    One silver lining:
    I was wondering if I was kind of imagining some of the attitude I’ve been getting from the higher-ed careers type people that work in the building I do. Nope. My boyfriend came inside with me to get my stuff out of the fridge later in the day (this wouldn’t be weird at all in my work environment), and witnessed me getting the 3rd degree from 2 elite employees when I entered the staff break room. He commented on how utterly awkward it seemed.

    1. Thlayli*

      That sounds like a horrible work environment. Poor you.

      I think you need to get clarity on whether you are actually an employee or not and what rights you have at work. There are a few things that jump out that make it seem to me that you are more of an independent contractor or something. The fact that you get paid for specific jobs, not hourly work, the fact that people thought you shouldn’t be at employee workshops or in employee break room. It really sounds like there is a perception that you are not actually an employee. Perhaps you are actually breaking rules by attending the workshops/entering the staff room. You should clarify that.

      Another thing to consider is that just because someone’s job looks easy from the outside doesn’t make it easy. I have seen plenty of employees complaining about how they could do a much better job than more senior employees. But its really obvious a lot of the time that they don’t actually understand what said senior employee actually does in their job. So you may not actually be the right fit for those jobs you are looking at yet.

      your job sucks and is not paying you enough. You need to look for another job. You already know all this. But I think where you are getting confused is that you seem to think getting another job in this organisation is the best route to focus on. It doesn’t sound like getting another job in this organisation is a realistic prospect right now.

      I think you should focus your job seeking efforts elsewhere. Good luck.

      Plus your coworkers are being rude even if you are unknowingly breaking rules – they don’t have to be such douches about letting you know you are in the wrong place.

      1. Anxa*

        The door says “Employees only.” It’s in the wing of the building where my department’s office is, which is not where I actually work (I have two modes of work, most of the time I have no reserved work space). The majority of those in the room are friendly and many helped me into the room since I didn’t have the code. I wonder if others think I’m a student? A student worker? Maybe they are annoyed at sharing space with student workers (in fact, I think there was a post here a while about about students in break rooms). I am not a student, but a lot of those that do my job are.

        I’m not a contractor. I’ll get a W2, filled out a W4, and have pretty normal payroll tax deductions. I’m a temporary part-time employee with no benefits, although the temporary part is a little dubious. It’s one of those positions where unless you get fired, you’ll be rehired, but under a new session every year. It’s exploitative, but pretty normal for my position. I am, in practice, a bit like a freelancer. I am assigned clients, tmy cell phone number (yea, I wasn’t thrilled about that part, but I needed a job) and I arrange the times I meet. I have to meet at the campus, but there’s not a specific place I have to be.

        I should probably clarify that they didn’t seem like I shouldn’t be at the workshops, but that they were surprised I was there? Some seemed pleasantly surprised, but it felt kind of patronizing? Like, there was a “well good for you!” element to it. Others were more condescending. It was pretty discouraging. I was mad, too, because our students beg me to do that service for them and I have to tell them it’s not my job, but I can see how badly they are served by the well-meaning specialists. I try to, without undermining other departments, give them tips to help them self-advocate and what topics to make sure are addressed.

        I understand that it’s easy to underestimate a lot about certain jobs. That’s probably the bitterness talking. And I guess I’m being condescending in a way, too. But I really don’t think it isn’t something I couldn’t do. I do probably want to work elsewhere, but I’m pretty sure that most of my resentment just comes from being in the wrong class of worker, not the wrong place. My last place of employment was better, but the real issue is that I don’t have a professional class job. I am trying to make a career out of something most people do to make extra cash while in school, it’s just that every time I try to start another career, I don’t have enough experience for it. This is the only thing I have significant experience in. And I don’t have any valuable skills.

        I think I’m going to have to try harder to make sure I’m seen. I guess I’m too introverted. When I’m not working, I’d rather be working on personal things or doing the administrative tasks for my work-work. I should probably invest some time in the break room more (I don’t actually take my breaks there, just use it for storing my food).

        I’m still looking elsewhere, but it’s not as bad here as it sounds. I’m just…really burned out of having no where to move up where I am, and no route to move out. And I’m tired of not fitting in here in higher ed, because I’ve been doing work in higher ed for 7 years (although mostly as a student), and it’s all I really know, but I don’t really belong. I’m not support staff, not professional staff, not technical staff and not faculty.

    2. Overeducated*

      In my experience, when you start to feel that resentment…you just have to focus on your exit strategy because you need to move on. It’s rational and structural, not psychological on your end, so it’s not going to get much better. I know that sounds harsh, but it seems like you had almost no employment gap after your move, so I think a better paid, more stable position is not a crazy or unattainable thing. Keep at it!

      1. Anxa*

        Well, I do have a huge gap of underemployment with lots of unemployment. Before I moved, I had my first solid chunk of employment for two years. I have a pretty spotty record overall. It’s been pretty unattainable so far.

        I have been looking every day since I started, but I have almost no network in this new city. I feel like I need to volunteer more and get out and about, but it’s so expensive and has always been a dead end before.

  178. Jen*

    I have been at my job for almost 18 months and…. I think I hate it. I started as a senior level teapot designer/project manager and I’ve been promoted to supervising a small group of specialized purple teapot designers. I’m doing business development and am on the team looking at employee utilization, hiring staff, financial performance, etc. I can’t tell if its impostor syndrome but this feels like too much of a stretch role. I agreed to it without really understanding what it meant. I don’t think I can do what is expected of me. I feel like I’m being rewarded for things my boss expects me to do but that I haven’t done yet. I don’t have the knowledge, industry connections, or experience to make it happen. And to top it off, it’s scary for me to be working on things that aren’t billable on projects and bringing in money directly.
    I accepted this job because I was looking for something less demanding. I wanted to have another baby, do my 45 hours, and go home. I let myself get swept up in the excitement of building a sub-group to specialize in purple teapots.
    My boss has acknowledged that this is a huge leap in professional development for me, that it is a big role, and that he expects me to succeed. I got a good annual review but I feel like that’s based on my being personable and willing to work more than the results I’ve had – which are basically nonexistent to date. Has anyone else been here? I feel like I want to quit, let the bridge burn, and find something that is less of a stretch.

    1. Thlayli*

      The thing that really jumps out at me is the baby thing. I’m not sure if you have a baby at home, are pregnant, or want to become pregnant, but whichever it is it seems like you think this job is not suited to your desired work/life balance at the moment. You also dislike the job and you aren’t sure you’re good at it.

      So you have 3 reasons you want to quit the job. There are also reasons to stick with it: to not let your boss down and to not adversely affect your career.

      I’m not sure what would be the effect on your career or your relationship with your boss if you quit. In an ideal world that is what you could do, while still retaining the option to move up again in the future. However the world is not ideal and I think it depends very much on your company and your boss whether it would affect you badly now or in the future.

      In my old job, there were a number of people who were promoted to management, and either they or their managers realised they sucked at it, and they were moved into other roles that better suited their skills. Two of them told me this had happened and I got the impression it was all completely out in the open and not done behind their back at all, and I think one of them instigated it himself – literally “this role isn’t working out, can I go back to doing x”. And both were highly respected experts within the company by the time I knew them (but not managing staff).

      So it is possible, if your company culture allows people to be open about their limitations. You could say “I don’t think I’m ready for this role yet. Can I step down and maybe appply again in a few years?”

      If you don’t think the culture /boss will accept that then the baby thing might be your best bet for a change. If you are pregnant or have baby or young child at home then you can say something like:

      “I didn’t really realise how much extra time/stress this new role would have. It’s preventing me from seeing my baby at all during the week and I don’t think I can continue to do this role unless the hours were reduced. I don’t think that would really be possible so it might be better if I stepped down and went back to working as a team member for a few years until baby is older”.

      If you’re not pregnant/baby momma and your other child is a lot older then I’m not sure how to approach it.

      Good luck whatever happens.

      1. Thlayli*

        I may have misunderstood your letter – I thought you were asking about quitting the role but staying with the company. However on a second read it seems like you haven’t considered that as an option. So I guess the first thing you need to do is figure out if that is in any way an option in your organisation.

  179. Bend & Snap*

    I’m seeing some job ads pop up that are blowing my mind.

    Real example: Corporate Communications Manager
    Job description: Stuff that takes YEARS to learn and perfect, including building a roadmap, managing an agency, writing 17 different types of copy, and hardcore video editing

    Requirements:
    BA, specific software skills, strategic planning experience, “no ego” and broad understanding of B2B marketing and PR.

    Cool right? Sounds like a high-level job.

    Experience:
    3-5 years

    I’m sorry but nobody knows their ass from their elbow in all of these different areas with that experience level. You can get inexperienced cheap help or experienced less cheap help but you cannot have someone with 5 years or less of job experience doing all of the stuff with any expertise, and people with more experience aren’t going to take a near-entry-level salary.

    I’m seeing a lot of this lately and it’s driving me crazy.

    “You need to bring us the moon on a silver platter and we will pay you 50 cents.”

    1. Anon for current purposes*

      Sounds like things have swung form one absurd extreme (need a bunch of experience for an entry level job) to another…

    2. Spoonie*

      Yep, you got the salary part right. Ask for the moon, get Cracker Jacks.

      And that’s why I’ve sort of taken a hard right out of marcomm. Use the exact same skills, get paid much better money.

      1. Bend & Snap*

        I’m actually really well paid in my current role but running into a golden handcuff situation because of stuff like this.

        Also I have almost 2 decades in PR. I’ve created storlines for and managed execution of video projects. Do I know how to shoot and edit video? No. It’s not the same skill set.

        I mean really.

        1. justsomeone*

          I’ve got a case of the Golden Handcuffs in my marcomm job too, and I’m only 5 years in!

    3. FishcakesHurrah!*

      I am still bemused by an ad I saw for an EA. Candidates had to have a PhD in project management.

    4. what can it hurt?*

      I had a boss who believed in ‘aspirational job ads.’ Ask for everything possible, and then see what applicants can actually do, and adjust accordingly. He was constantly confused as to why we had so few applicants…

    5. Crafty*

      I see this a lot in the design field (and high COL city) — it drives me nuts! Required: BFA in design, 5+ years experience, complete program/web/user experience/e-comm experience…..$12/hr…

      UGH.

    6. Former Journalist*

      WTF. I switched field last year after a decade in the media and didn’t even look at corp comms manager jobs as I don’t feel I have anywhere near enough experience for that. (I did get an interview for a job that would have essentially been second in command to that role, but cancelled it and went to work at a non-profit instead.)

  180. Parenthetically*

    Resume help for a bit of a unique situation!

    My (Australian) husband worked in a specialized and fairly high-demand field before he married me. We’ve been in the green card process for what seems like an eternity, and of course he has been unable to get paid work during that time, so he has been volunteering as a tutor at my school (not his field, but something he is nonetheless very good at) to fill his days. He’s now allowed to seek paid work.

    How should he deal with this on his resume when he starts applying for jobs in his field? He has been working 8-3:30, M-F, just not for pay. I’m concerned about the length of the gap if he leaves it out, but also concerned that it might look strange to suddenly have “tutor” stuck in there for a year. Any thoughts?

    1. Persephone Mulberry*

      I’d either explain it in the cover letter, assuming he’s not in one of those niche industries that shuns cover letters, and/or put it on his resume separately from his relevant work experience (under Community Involvement or some such heading).

    2. Thlayli*

      Personally I would include it so no gap but put an extra sentence in explaining it. Depending on the format of his resume it might look like:

      “Tutor, school, dates
      – volunteer work while obtaining green card
      – the usual info you would have about duties of the role”

  181. Squeegee Beckenheim*

    I have a Friday hypothetical for y’all.

    What would you do if you wrote a work of fiction based on your work experience and it were going to be published or produced or whatnot? Would you use a pen name? Would you warn your boss? Would you just hope nobody read or saw it? If it were successful enough, maybe you’d quit your job, but if not, would you look for a new job?

    (This is inspired by the fact that some stuff my weird coworker is doing made my imagination run wild and now I kind of want to write a screenplay about it.)

    1. ByLetters*

      If I really liked people I’d warn them. If I didn’t, I’d change names and deny everything if ever called on it.

      I .. might .. use a pen name if I wrote, depending on what it was that I wrote. Partly because I’m kind of a private person in general, partly because I’ve heard a lot about how having a specific format of name helps sell books.

  182. LizB*

    Man, I had been doing so well on not tearing up at work (last time was mid-November, when there were Other Things happening in the world that were impacting my stress levels), and now I totally blew it and cried in front of my manager and his manager in the midst of a discussion about an obstacle we’ve been trying to figure out for literally months and never seem to make any progress on. I was able to continue the conversation through the tears, but ugh, embarrassing. Fortunately my manager’s manager is wonderful, and said without prompting “I’ve cried to my manager a bunch, so don’t worry that I’m going to take you less seriously because of this, I know how you feel and this is not going to impact my opinion of you.” But it’s still frustrating.

  183. Rache*

    I’m an Executive Assistant for a C-level as well as for an SVP that is a direct report for them. We just had our review period, and having been at our company for several years (almost 15, but only 3 in this role) I’m used to the way they do things. Review grades are ‘assigned’ based on availability. Grades are 2-4, 4 being exceptional – and the majority of the company will receive a 3 (which also translates to their raise %). Anything above or below the 3 will need justification and approval from a committee.

    My role is one that is based entirely on where my boss is, what she needs and when. I could go from being so idle that I’m reading AAM all day to never once even opening an internet browser because I’m so busy. I love my job, I love working for someone that is considerate. I know I’m extremely lucky and completely understand that and will just enjoy it while it lasts.

    So… I received a 4 – exceeds expectations!! I’m so excited that my boss feels that I perform at this level, let alone knowing that she needs to actually justify her thoughts on it to others to make it happen. :)

  184. ByLetters*

    Crap crap crap.

    Just got an offer for an interview at 4pm next week. It’s the only slot they offered, in terms of “the team has an opening for an interview at this time. does that work for you?” .. but it’s probably the worst time they could have chosen.

    It’s 4pm, on Passover, when I’ll be hosting a seder at my house (and supposedly be doing all the cooking) .. on top of which, it’s an hour away from my home, and I live in a city that has recently made the news for — okay, I don’t have a way to put this vaguely, nor see any reason to hide it: I live in Atlanta, where a major bridge collapse has turned traffic into a horrific nightmare. Ordinarily the trip would take an hour. Realistically it would take longer, which puts me at risk of being late to a dinner I am hosting, not to mention eliminates my ability to prep food.

    Theoretically, I could take the day off work to prep for the dinner, but that still leaves me as possibly late for my own seder.

    I do not want to hurt my own chances at this job — I desperately want it! It’s a big pay bump, the hours are fantastic, and it would SERIOUSLY advance my career. But holy crap, I would rather a 2am interview than this logistical nightmare ..

    Hiring managers, would it be unreasonable for me to request a different time? Am I panicking too much? Worse yet, it’s a panel interview, meaning that it’s complicated on their side to get everyone together.

    1. LizB*

      I mean, they asked if it worked for you. It doesn’t. At my organization, we would have no problem with “I’m so sorry, that time doesn’t work for me, can we do sometime on X Day or Y Day instead?”

      But mostly I wanted to commiserate about Passover panicking. I have a big, we-stay-until-it’s-done task to do on Monday… and also am hosting a Seder. So I’m gonna have to really just bust my butt to be productive on Monday, but I’m not gonna lie, it’s freaking me out a little.

      1. animaniactoo*

        My company will close early on Monday but hasn’t told us how early yet, and I had to e-mail a new business contact who is coming in for a meeting to say “Hey, what time do you want to meet because oh btw it should be earlier than later”.

      2. ByLetters*

        Yeah, no joke, I am going to be cooking/cleaning everything I can on Sunday as it is! I love love love Passover, but during-the-work-week holidays are brutal!

        1. LizB*

          They so are! I would say we should discuss and commiserate more on the weekend open thread, but between grocery shopping, cooking ahead of time, tracking down more folding chairs, and three other events I have (seriously, shul, why do we have religious school on the Sunday before Pesach?!) I won’t have any time for AAMing until the seder is done. :)

    2. Creag an Tuire*

      You can’t make the timeslot because you’re an observant Jew and it’s Passover. This (non-Jewish) poster would never hold that against you and I feel like anyone who would is probably not someone you want to work for…

    3. animaniactoo*

      If accommodating a religious need is going to be a problem, this is the time to find out.

      It’s not unreasonable to request a different day or time, the only thing I would question is whether there is a large enough Jewish community in Atlanta that they are likely to understand “This is not a weekly thing, you picked one of the 5 days of the year that’s a major holiday/conflict” without further info. But only in terms of whether you say “no unfortunately that day doesn’t work for me” (because hey, they did ask and didn’t just say “please confirm your appointment”!) or “Unfortunately that’s the first night of Passover and I am hosting our seder, so I’d like to find a different day/time that we could meet please.”

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      First, it’s very normal for candidates to respond, “That slot won’t work on my end, but I could do X, Y, or X.” They offered you a slot; they didn’t say it’s the only time they’re willing to do it.

      Second, if you explain it conflicts with a religious obligation, they’re pretty much going to have to accommodate you. Just say, “Unfortunately that’s the start of Passover and so I’m not available then. But I’m very flexible the rest of the week. Is there another slot that would work on your end?”

      1. ByLetters*

        /BREATHES

        Okay. Thank you everyone — I think I just got so freaked out about the interview to offer (it’d been two weeks since they said they were going to follow up, and I’d mentally crossed the possibility off in my head) that I kind of panicked!

        I definitely needed to hear all of this, thank you thank you!

        (There is enough of a Jewish community in the city itself that people know we exist, but I’m generally the only Jew at most of my workplaces. For the most part, when it’s come up at all, people are delighted because now they finally have someone to cover some of the Christian holidays!)

        1. ByLetters*

          ^offer to interview. Sigh. I am definitely going to walk around the office and calm down before I email this guy back since apparently I can’t type!

          1. SophieChotek*

            Hope it works out — the timing does sound really unfortunate and it can all work out so that they can give you another time and you don’t have to be late or forced to choose which one…

  185. Me*

    These last two weeks have been BRUTAL in the job hunt.

    No replies, not even from the crap jobs. I struggled to fulfill the three required contacts for the week for UI. I run out of UI in a few weeks. I have no idea what to do. All the listings have morphed into warehouse work, I-need-a-nanny ads, and stuff that’s way over my head. Nobody in California will reply to me. I searched tech editing/writing jobs in Missouri and there is quite literally NOTHING. There is one job I could potentially do, but it’s in another city, with a boldly Christian company that publishes for a specific church and I’m sorry if it makes me sound intolerant, but I cannot work for a church. I just can’t. An admin job here sounded okay (if absurdly low-paid), but when I checked on Glassdoor, the replies from the company to employee reviews were so snarky I was completely put off.

    Last night, after I got back on Twitter and discovered we’re madly bombing with kissy face going on between the two worst presidents on earth, I absolutely lost it. I called my mother and just unloaded. She did tell me something interesting; two people she knows IRL sold their houses to that WeBuyUglyHouses house flipper company, and they were able to get enough to pay off their mortgages and get a little extra. She said they told her that if the profit they made off the sale was NOT over the initial purchase price of the home, they didn’t have to count it as income. I asked my ex, who used to work for the IRS, and he said “normally the rule is that as long as you don’t sell it for more than you bought it for, and it’s your primary residence, then you don’t pay any taxes on it. But there are always exceptions and caveats for special situations.”

    I thought that thing was a scam, but apparently it’s a legit company? Also, that can’t be real–it seems too good to be true. But if it is, that means I could sell this place fast and get out without taking a hit to my credit. If I had anywhere to go, that is.

    As of now, I have just barely enough money put aside to move into a cheap place, but I can only move ONCE. So it has to be right, when it happens. I don’t want to waste that money moving for a crappy admin job. What worries me is this: if I get a crappy admin job here, then I’m right back to crappy admin jobs on my resume and it pushes me further away from what I was doing and what I want to do. I don’t want to be an admin any more!

    Also, why am I having so much trouble scrolling on this site in Chrome? It’s not my mouse. Arggh!

    1. fposte*

      Aw, I’m sorry, Me. But in fact, even if you *gain* money on the house sale it’s usually tax free. It’s a homeowner’s exemption to the capital gains tax. The exemption has to meet a few qualifications–it has to be your primary residence, you have to have lived there at least two of the last five years, it has a ceiling of $250k of profit–but most of us are going to qualify just fine.

      It looks like it’s not a scam, but that it is suggested that people might do better with a realtor sale if they have the time. I would check with a realtor to see what they said before committing.

      And I hope luck turns your way soon.

    2. EA*

      UH, I am so sorry.

      I am probably very not qualified to give you advice, I am trying to transition out of admin (and that is not easy).

      I would try and focus on one thing at a time, either moving or a job. Maybe get a crappy admin job where you are, and then save so you can have more of a cushion when you move. That way you won’t need to worry about having to only move once. Have you had any luck with admin jobs that have a writing/editing component? When I was a legal assistant I did admin but also a lot of editing.

      1. Me*

        That’s what I was doing–it was more editing/writing than admin. I have skills, I just can’t get anybody to look at me, and those jobs here are few and far between. I also do NOT want to move somewhere I don’t want to be and get stuck AGAIN.

        I’m trying to find a crappy admin job even but they barely pay enough to pay bills, let alone save anything. >:(

        1. Chaordic One*

          Maybe you could do rev.com? After reading about it several posts up, I’m thinking of looking into it.

    3. Periwinkle*

      They’re a legit company (I looked at selling my old house to them but went with a realtor instead) but they are going to low-ball you. If you’re looking for quick and not having to fix up cosmetic issues, it may be worth it.

      1. Me*

        That’s probably what will happen. I don’t want to have to fix anything; I just want OUT. If I still had a decent job, I’d do what I should have done before and fix stuff in a basic way (it’s not worth a huge renovation, at least not to me) and then sell it the regular way.

        1. Gadfly*

          Also went with a realtor after considering one of those, and ended up doing some fixes just to get it sold (FHA loan–weird stupid requirements for a fixer.) So we got more money in the end, but we did have to come up with a bit ahead of time to make it work.

    4. SophieChotek*

      I hope you can get out and find a job — I know you’ve really been looking and not had much success. Wishing you much success!

  186. Not my boss' mother*

    The thread on Wednesday that EA started about just doing your job for the job’s sake/income and not having to love it always was very reassuring to me. Thank you EA! I’m 43 and just now figuring out that I don’t have to be super fulfilled by every job. I am a very conscientious worker, I am detailed in my work, and I try to go above and beyond whenever I can, but I’m not sure it’s enough for my current boss. He’s a workaholic micro manager (can’t say no, meetings from 7 am. straight through to 5 p.m. or later, everything is a 10 on level of importance), who does not have the right people on his leadership team (also so noted by the grand boss – I heard the conversation). Deadlines are not met, projects fall through the cracks, etc. It’s making him look bad around the organization and his reputation is suffering (but he doesn’t know it). I’m concerned my reputation is also suffering by default despite my best efforts. I try to help keep him on track as much as I can, but he is not mentally tracking very well right now. For example, he went to a meeting in a different building and forgot his binder of information I spent and hour compiling. He texted his previous assistant instead of me to ask if “I” could bring it to him. Luckily she and I know each other, so she just forwarded his text to me and I took care of it. I often find myself repeating information, reprinting documents, etc. that I have already provided. I have always felt like I am more of a “managing mother” than an “executive assistant”. He also has some major stress in his personal life, but that has only amplified what has already been going on. One of his direct reports and I had a conversation about the need for an intervention to get him to let us help him. Not sure he would be receptive to it. His previous assistant told me he was the best boss she has ever had and it was a step up for me which is why I took the job.

    Just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to keep moving forward since this clearly isn’t my “joy” job right now. Side question, is it normal to work as an EA for someone for 15 months and they have no idea what my kids’ names are, or am I being too sensitive? Hopefully I’m not sounding to whiny!

    1. EA*

      Thank you! The thread was so cathartic for me. I wish things like this were talked about more.

      I think what is going on with your boss is about him, and not you. You could try and be like “Is there anything I can do to keep you on track more” You can also talk to his old assistant to see if it was like this when she was with him. You can only do so much with someone who doesn’t want help. I strongly suspect he is have Issues right now, and it isn’t you, and it was different when his old EA was there. Also FWIW, I think to a lot of people EA means “managing mother”. Everyone wants to be a business partner with their boss, but it is difficult to get there. A lot of people do not know how to effectively use an executive assistant. You can try and push him in that direction, but you can’t make him do something he does not want to do. Don’t take it personally, try to get him to improve a little bit, and remember that his personal crisis won’t last forever. If things are still like this in 6 months to a year, then maybe look for new jobs if this is a dealbreaker for you.

      I would personally not care if my boss took no interest in my personal life, but others might think it is rude. I think its up to you what you want in a boss, but you are not too sensitive. I think it is probably him, though. If he can’t keep track of his projects he sure as hell isn’t going to remember your kids name.

      1. Not my boss' mother*

        EA – I laughed out loud when I read your comment about not remembering his projects/my kids’ names. Thanks for the straightforward advice and input!

  187. Dienna Howard*

    I watched an episode of 20/20 that I found on YouTube called “Do Your F***ing Job,” about people who were lazy or incompetent while on the job (falling asleep in front facing or customer service jobs, 911 responders who say they don’t care enough to help the callers, an ambulance driver clowning and dancing while listening to a Rihanna song with his hands off the steering wheel at times) and a few that ended up fatal (the director/producer of an independent movie on Gregg Allman’s life tried to do a shoot on active railroad tracks without permission to and a camera assistant was killed, and a story from the DC area here that I remember about a man who died because firefighters at a station across the street refused to come across the street to help him).

    It’s frustrating because while I am struggling to find a job, it seems that people who don’t seem to care about their jobs seem to get them easily.

    1. NaoNao*

      I relate, in a way because people on this board are struggling to find work, and it seems like terrible bosses and coworkers are everywhere!
      But…
      Those videos and stories are usually a few seconds or minutes in someone’s life. They may have been ill, or just have lost someone and stayed up all night. They may be struggling with problems to the point where they’ve reached burnout (911 operators). Customer facing jobs and emergency responder jobs are *incredibly* draining and hard. I’ve been there. It’s easy to judge, hard to extend compassion and understanding.
      It’s easy for someone sitting at a desk in an office, in charge of their own time, to say things like “do your job”, but what’s the other side of the story? What about the person with 3 part time jobs who barely has enough money to live and who let their eyes close for a few seconds while at job #2? What about the end of the 12 hour shift ambulance driver who’s letting off steam by singing along to a song?
      We don’t know the context. We don’t know the whole story.
      Also, as my mother would say when I felt that other people were making a muck of something I would sail through “But do you want their life? Do you want what they have?”
      Do you want to work at a drive through? A sales job? A call center? As a 911 operator?
      I get it, believe me. But the people I’m really angry with is the C-suite tyrants we hear about here and the crazed small business owners who act like Caligula. Not the lowest guy on the totem pole getting 8.00 a hour.

  188. Teacher's Mom*

    My daughter needs some advice. She is a high school teacher. She has developed a close friendship with another teacher in her department. This other teacher is a man. My daughter is happily married and a new mom. Her husband has no problem with the friendship, however, the school administration and some of the other teachers do. There is no policy at the school that prohibits dating, much less friendships, between teachers, so she is confused about where this frowning is coming from.

    Today, she was told that the other teacher will not be allowed to chaperone on an upcoming out-of-town field trip. The chaperoning was approved back in September. My daughter is pretty sure that her teacher-friend’s roommate has been reporting to the principal when they spend time together outside of school (which is pretty much daily). The thing is, it is NONE of the school’s business who she spends her time off with. They are doing nothing inappropriate. It seems to come down to this weird belief that men and women cannot be friends.

    What can she do? There is no union representation, so she has no rep to go to. It also appears they are only coming down on my daughter, not teacher-friend. My daughter has addressed it head-on more than once now with reassurances of “No, Fergus and I are not sleeping together” and “My husband spends time with us, so obviously he doesn’t have a problem; why do you?” It’s getting to the point where she’s looking for another school.

    She would love some advice about how to shut this down once and for all. I’m not sure if that is possible. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    1. Manders*

      Uh, wtf? My husband is a high school teacher and I would consider it really weird if he was expected to stay away from female friendships at work. Just this week, he recommended a single female friend of his from grad school for an open position at his school. And he goes to happy hours and plays board games with lots of other teachers at the school–single, married, male, female, queer, and straight.

      The fact that the school administration’s in on this makes me think that she’s right to move on. Because teachers socialize with each other all the time, and it’s super creepy that the administration is trying to read an illicit affair into that. And the roommate going to the principal about it? BEYOND WEIRD.

      1. Teacher's Mom*

        The roommate ia also a woman and a teacher at the same school. I agree it’s beyond weird.

    2. Zahra*

      If they are only coming down on her, they could be discriminating (in the legal sense) against her. Not just by coming down on her, but also by expecting her to exhibit specific, stereotypical “female” behaviors. Such as: socializing only with women and being unable to be friends with a man without sexual attraction coming into play.

      1. Teacher's Mom*

        That seems to be exactly what is happening. It is enough to make heads explode!!

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I wonder if she could make it a formal complaint to the superintendent, using the words discrimination? Because that’s just ridiculous.

          If not, I wish her luck in finding a school that isn’t full of gossipy old poo-heads.

    3. Hrovitnir*

      If it’s already this completely bizarre I don’t think it is possible to shut it down. But I can certainly agree that it’s completely gross and not even “yeah, people suck” gross – more “what planet are you from?”

    4. LCL*

      You can’t shut all this stuff down, but you can fight it. The way to fight it to go straight to the source. Who decided male teacher is disinvited? Ask that person to explain the reason. And ask they, whoever they are, to clearly explain their standards and expectations re gender based friendships.

      And, tell her to stop immediately any reassurance about who she is or isn’t sleeping with. Asking the question is good old fashioned slut shaming. Don’t indulge those people, one is never pure enough for them. If it were me, I’d answer those questions with the sarcasm they deserved. Something like “my dance card is full, I don’t have time for any more lovers.” Probably better to say excuse me, you think what? Or just laugh loudly.

    5. emma2*

      What on earth. Maybe I watch too much TV, but is it possible someone in the administration has the hots for the guy teacher-friend, and is feeling threatened? Otherwise, this behavior doesn’t make sense.

  189. Dienna Howard*

    The interview I had Monday did not go well. The interviewer yawned at least three times during it and people came into the room during the time I was being interviewed (one to return a projector and another to tell my interviewer that a person who cancelled his interview showed up anyway, and my interviewer had to leave the room to handle that). And the questions: “Tell me about yourself” (not even a question), “On a scale from 1-10, how are you with Word/Excel?” I feel that this should’ve been a phone screening instead of an in-person interview. I was skeptical when I sent my resume last Wednesday and got a response to come in for an interview the next day. It seemed too rushed and disorganized. Disappointing.

    I did use Alison’s question of “What makes a great candidate stand out from a good candidate?”, which caught the interviewer off guard but in a pleasant way. It’s a question that caused her to think.

    1. Chaordic One*

      At my last interview, one of the interviewers rolled his eyes at one of my answers and I knew right then that I didn’t have a chance at the job. I don’t know why he rolled his eyes, I thought it was an honest answer, maybe not brilliant but passable. Sure enough I got the a rejection letter today.

      1. Dienna Howard*

        I got my rejection to the job today. I wasn’t surprised and was honestly relieved.

        Interviews go two ways: they’re interviewing us while we’re interviewing them.

  190. Anxa*

    This may be too field specific, but has anyone ever quit a specialized volunteering gig prematurely?

    I’m looking to volunteer, but I really need to work. I do work now, but it’s part-time. I would love to volunteer for a solid year on a research project (life sciences), but I am 30+ years old with no paid experience in the fields I studied for (and the field I work in has minimal growth opportunity without graduate school) and if I got a job, even a crummy one with no growth opportunity in a toxic environment, I’m not in the position to turn it down.

    My worry is that I don’t want to pay $10+ a day in commuting costs, reserve a day of the week (maybe 2) without being available to work, to do something that really won’t impress anyone. I have no urge to volunteer to be a good person this point. Been there, did that. I am just looking to build a network because I have no faith in applying to jobs out the blue through an online application and having that work out. I’m not a superstar or competitive applicant, anyway.

    So, do you think it’s weird to actively seek out labs to volunteer in, but mentioning up front that I’m job searching? Or am I just going to torpedo my chances of being considered immediately if I do that? My thing is, I don’t want to go through training and slow the lab down, and then not stick around long enough to contribute. I don’t want to leave them in the lurch. Really, they are better off accepting undergrads who know they will be around for the full year/semester than someone like me.

    How can I balance getting real valuable experience (not just dish washing) with also knowing that I can’t commit if something better does come along? For years, I never would have jumped ship. But I just can’t turn down paid work to volunteer at this point.

    1. Leena Wants Cake*

      Would it be possible for you to find a volunteer gig in your desired field that offered more schedule flexibility(evenings, work remotely, weekends, etc.) meaning that you could still be involved on some (reduced) level even after accepting a full time position? As someone who works heavily with skilled volunteers who perform complex tasks, I’d certainly prefer to know about any relevant job searching up front, but I’d also be wary of taking on someone who knew they’d be out the door as soon as they found paid work. I’d be much more willing to take on someone who said, “Right now I am able to give you X hours per week. If I found full time employment, I’d probably need to go down to Y hours, but I’d still be committed to assisting with this project.” This means you are a) managing expectations upfront, b) showing yourself to be thoughtful and respectful of the time they are going to take to train you, c) going to be building additional professional contacts and references that you can use on the off-chance that the paid job turns out to be a bust. Just something to consider.

      1. Anxa*

        Oh yeah, I’d only be out the door due to the scheduling issues, not because I wouldn’t want to follow through. I would imagine dialing back for 2 weeks to transition, then resume progress until a natural starting point. Thanks for reminding me to make that clear!

        The thing is, I just don’t know what I’m going to do if my job gets out at 5pm and is a 40 min drive away. Even if I can get the use of a care, that’s just kind of impossible.

        I’m thinking of looking into opportunities where I can work from home if I have to, maybe doing comm for outreach? Doing my data analysis? Reading papers? That sort of thing.

    2. SeekingBetter*

      I’m volunteering in my field and due to the nature of my work, I’m able to work 100% remote. If you can find a volunteer opportunity that allows you to this, you will save money on commute and other costs. All you need is a trusty computer and a reliable phone line.

      1. Anxa*

        I’m actually thinking about abandoning one skillset I’ve been working on (only internship/classroom experience so far) to more computer-based work, focusing on data analysis, since I can do it from home. It may also be easier to keep up with later on down the road if I took time off.

        I just don’t know if I know what I’m doing if I branch out into that.

  191. Random IT Worker*

    Every so often I hear about people (usually mothers), who get on the ‘mommy track’ – part time work so they can raise their kids. The last time I was job hunting (about 6 months ago) I tried to do this, and I could not find one person open to a part time hire. Everyone claims they need full time. One one employer would even entertain the idea because they were desperate (they’d been trying to find someone with my skillset for about a year). How on earth do people do this? I’ve had a job alert set on dice.com (its like monster for IT jobs) for part time jobs with no hits in the last 6 months. I don’t actually want to work full time – I’d much rather work part time and be able to be there for my kids or other things, and since my spouse works I can afford it. (Also I don’t really like IT that much, I’m just good at it and it pays). I know this is an unusual question because most of the time when I see questions about this it’s the other way around – people on part time or contract work trying to get hired full time. How do people do it?

    1. ProfessorPlum*

      Someone recently told me about flexjobs dot com for remote and part time job listings. I’ve looked at it but haven’t signed up yet.

    2. not so super-visor*

      most of the ladies that I know who have done this have found a full-time job before starting their family, gotten really good at their job and become very valuable to the company, and then pitched the part-time gig after getting pregnant (or while planning their maternity leave).

      1. Thlayli*

        This. Everyone I know who successfully transitioned to part time stayed with their company and used their track record there to negotiate part time hours.

    3. katamia*

      Usually those jobs seem to be either part-time admin jobs (I see a lot of part-time admin jobs advertised where I am, although that might vary by region) or some retail positions, presumably smaller stores rather than huge corporations where you basically have to be permanently available.

      You could also try contacting temp agencies to see if they fill part-time jobs.

    4. Anxa*

      I’m one of the ones on the other side. Can’t find FT work. And actually one of the reasons I’m most stressed about it is that if I ever do want to go part-time for family reasons, I want to work FT NOW. I always thought pre-family, being youngish was going to be the time I worked the most.

      I have a job that doesn’t pay well, but you’re almost guaranteed to find just PT work: Tutoring at comm college. I’m not sure how much they’ll need for computer science or IT, but you can probably branch out. I’m sure this isn’t what you’re looking for, though.

    5. Umvue*

      If you’re near a university, sometimes you can find part-time jobs there. My local uni hires on a percentage basis; an 80% hire might work 4 days a week, or 3 days and 2 half-days, depending on program need. I had a post at this uni once that was technically in the IT track (I’m a data person; we can wind up all over the place), and I was hired half-time.

    6. copy run start*

      I think IT is one of the harder careers to find this since you’re usually working more than 40 hours a week. (Exception might be Geek Squad or other retail tech support? But that may not be what you’re looking for.) I have seen my local university post less than 1 FTE positions, but not often. I think most businesses just contract out their IT support until it becomes more cost-effective to establish an in house team, so you might have some luck checking with any smaller MSP’s in your area who don’t need all full-time employees. Dice.com is a wasteland for my region yet we have plenty of IT jobs, so I’d broaden your search unless you’re somewhere like Portland or SoCal. You might have to make your own job and consult.

      The folks I know on the ‘mommy-track’ work for small non-profits or call centers or childcare centers where part-time work is what is typically offered. Childcare centers are popular since they usually let you bring your own kid for free/less. Call centers less so because of the hours and ever-shifting schedule.

  192. anonymousasker*

    Hi! I have a pretty easy question that I think I know the answer to but wanted to hear your thoughts.

    My SO does some freelance work for us at my company. Everyone on my team has been incredibly happy with it, and he’s truly talented. I mentioned in passing to my big boss (C-level) that my SO was job searching. Big boss has a lot of contacts in the industries my SO is interested in and offered to meet my SO for lunch and discuss some ideas. Great – I had my SO send my Big Boss all of his stuff. Big boss hasn’t gotten back to him and it’s been a little over 2 weeks now.

    Should I mention something to Big Boss or let it go? Obviously he’s incredibly busy and I don’t want to come off pushy, and my SO doesn’t want to come off as “asking for a handout.” I’m leaning toward letting it go, but wanted to know if anyone’s been in a similar situation.

  193. Anxious asthmatic*

    I have a conference roomate. This is the norm for my profession. We have been rooming together for over twenty years . She is aware that I have life threatening asthma. I have been hospitalized while traveling. She is very aware and often pointing out if I hadn’t that someone is smoking nearby. No perfumes , hairspray etc. avoiding smokers, yet ten minutes ago, I had an asthma attack in our hotel room in a country where our native language is not spoken. It is fairly under control now, still wheezing. She says oh do you think it was the hairspray that I just used? I am livid. I don’t think I can room with her again. This will be a hardship for her. I don’t think I am overreacting. We leave tomorrow. Your thoughts?

    1. animaniactoo*

      I think that sounds like she is normally very careful about it, she forgot this trigger/had a brainfart, and I would not jump to can’t room with her again vs “It sounds like we need to cover the list of things that will trigger me again. Maybe we should make it a point to review every few months to be on the safe side?”

      1. animaniactoo*

        With the caveat that if she had another lapse then I think you would be in better standing to say “for my health, I can’t take that risk again”. And by better standing I don’t mean “Don’t have the right until then”, I mean more “the risk would outweigh the benefit you currently receive from this arrangement, which must be something for it to be a 20-year arrangement”.

        fwiw, I made that same call about going to my sister’s house when what she was doing to prep for me being there wasn’t enough.

    2. LQ*

      Is this the first time something like this happened? If she’s never done something like this I think that you can talk to her and even ask what happened. Especially if it’s very out of character (20 years and this is the first time? That’s super out of character to me). I’d definitely talk to her.

    3. Longtime Lurker*

      As soon as you have completely recovered, calmly tell her that you perceived her actions and reactions as insensitive (since you have determined that it was her use of the hairspray which called the asthma attack), you are livid, and that you do not wish to room with her again as a result. Really listen to and take in her response as well. She may be truly sorry – or not. I hope you are 100% well soon and wish you and your roommate a safe return home.

      1. Anxious asthmatic*

        Thank you for your comments. I appreciate the language. As I am still wheezing , I am not speaking. You are right, I will wait until I can listen, before I say anything. I can still smell the hairspray in the room and there s nothing I can do about it. It’s the middle of the night here. We move to another hotel tomorrow. I will speak to her in the morning.

        1. animaniactoo*

          Fwiw, I would not use the language in the post you’ve replied to here. I understand the panic of trying to take a breath and knowing that your body just *will not work* for you, the automatic function of your lungs is not happening and you might die (or be permanently injured/scarring). But unless this has happened before, what your words would be doing is attacking somebody who has been extremely conscientious about accommodating you and looking out for you, did not dodge the possibility that it was their action, brought it forward before you could be driven mad thinking there’s something new you might be reacting to, and made a human error.

          If you feel that strongly about not rooming with her again once you’re out of this “moment”, I would frame it as “that really upset me and I’m frightened to risk having that happen again”.

          1. Anxious asthmatic*

            Okay. It is morning. I will ask her to be aware and list triggers and not blame. I think I was just shocked by her blasé comment. It could have been a pile up of triggers as it was a very long day with other potential risks and this was the straw.

            1. Anxious asthmatic*

              So I said very simply please do not use hairspray or scents because it triggers my asthma. She said that she was feeling stuffy this morning and there must be something in the air. I just said thank you for understanding. I can get through the next 24 hours.

  194. JustaTech*

    OMG, you guys! I just got the promotion I asked for a few months ago! Thank you all so much for giving me the gumption to ask!
    EEEeeeee!
    *tiny chair happy dance*

  195. Sylvia*

    I’m applying for new jobs and, with any luck, I’ll be invited to interview sometime in the next few weeks.

    Unfortunately, I hurt my leg a while ago. This has happened before and I usually recover very quickly, but for now, it’s a pretty ugly brace/bruises/limping situation. I know how to dress around it professionally. I know a hiring manager won’t care. But I’m feeling nervous and self-conscious about it. Any advice on keeping my confidence up?

  196. kiwifruit*

    Do you think I should take off that I was a founder or co-founder of any of the companies on my resume? Does it make me look bad like I’m going to leave an start my own company? Or non-legit?

    One was a part-time business I worked on when I had my first job that ended up on the first page of Google’s search results, and the second we ended up raising several hundred thousand dollars and went to Techstars. What do you think? Right now I have my title and then “(founder)” in parenthesis. Do you think I should take the “founder” part out? I REALLY want to get out of startups and into a larger company.

    1. Manders*

      I think it’s ok to keep them, but I’d take out the “first page of Google’s search results” language and put in a different quantitative accomplishment or clarify what you meant by that. Every indexed site on the internet is technically on the first page of Google’s search results if you use a precise enough keyword.

      1. kiwifruit*

        It was for “songwriting lessons” with NYC or New York.

        Are you someone who reviews resumes, or do you know anyone who does?

        1. Manders*

          I don’t review resumes, but I do work in SEO. That “first page of Google’s search results” phrase is often a red flag that someone is trying to pitch a company something shady or useless in the SEO field. I see it in spam emails every single day. I’d also be careful about making that claim unless you’ve used keyword tracking tools or checked in incognito mode, because Google’s search results change based on your past behavior and that can make your site look like it’s ranking higher than it actually is.

          Which doesn’t mean you can’t talk about SEO if that’s something you’re proud of–but focus on results like how much you increased organic traffic, your conversion rate, reviews, etc. If you do want to talk about ranking highly for a valuable keyword, talk about where you started and what you did to increase that ranking.

          1. kiwifruit*

            Thanks, that helps. I wrote around 200 blog posts and all of my conversions came from the website. I’ll focus on that instead then.

    2. CAA*

      My rule of thumb: if you started a company that had at least two simultaneous full-time employees who were not also co-founders, then you can keep “founder” on your resume. You do not want to end up with something like “Bob’s Network Tech Support — CEO, owner and founder” which really means that Bob has a one-man side business in his spare time where he helps people with computer problems. It’s overly aggrandizing to list it that way.

      I also agree that landing on the first page of Google search results is not actually an accomplishment that goes on your resume. You can put it in your cover letter if it’s relevant to the current jobs you’re applying for.

      1. kiwifruit*

        Thanks. Do you think there’s an exception for a Techstars company, since less than 1% are accepted, and it’s for founders, or no?

        1. CAA*

          It depends what you’re trying to achieve with this resume. Techstars doesn’t mean anything to people outside the venture capital/startup environment, so if you’re trying to get out of that arena and into a more established company, putting Techstars on your resume is not going to impress anyone unless you take some space to at least explain what it is.

          Then you also have to consider what it says about you to the people who are reading your resume. To be honest, if I see something like that, it’s more negative than positive. Sometimes people with a lot of entrepreneurial spirit and past successes don’t work well in a more structured corporate environment. It wouldn’t prevent me from interviewing you if your other qualifications seem like a good match, but I’d have to ask a lot of questions to make sure you’re not going to be more of a maverick than we can take on.

          1. kiwifruit*

            Ok, so you are saying… it’s better to take off anything that makes me sound entrepreneurial because it might make me seem like I don’t like structure? Is that right?

            Structure is one of the top things I am DYING for right now, so that’s good to know.

            Is there anything else in general that you think would sway me to look more “corporate” vs “entrepreneurial”?

            Thanks again!

            (Also… do you happen to be someone who reviews resumes or do you know anyone who does?)

            1. CAA*

              I’m not saying you should remove everything that makes you sound entrepreneurial, just that you should think about what traits the hiring managers would be looking for in the places where you want to work and how the accomplishments and achievements that you list on your resume showcase those traits. Similarly, how can you minimize traits that hiring managers might find less appealing? Your resume is a marketing document where you are selling yourself and your skills, so it’s just like any other sales job where you need to present a product in the best light by talking up its advantages and minimizing its disadvantages.

              It’s hard to gain enough distance to do this about yourself, so I think your idea of having your resume reviewed by a neutral party is a good one. I sometimes give advice to friends, because I have read a lot of resumes as a hiring manager and know what works for me. It’s not something I do as a business though. Do you have anyone in your network who hires people into the type of company you’re looking at? You could you ask them to take a look and give you some honest feedback over coffee. (Do make it clear you’re not looking for a job at their company though.)

              On whether to mention the companies you founded, I know you see going to Techstars and getting funding as a huge success, but as a reader I’d be wondering what happened to the company. Is it out of business now? If so, did the investors make money? If not, is that really a successful business? Or is this company something you’re still working at that will distract you from giving your full attention to the career job I’m hiring you into at a very good salary? (No need to answer these questions, I’m just sharing the thoughts that go through my mind when I see this kind of thing on a resume.) I’ve been bitten before by people who put too much time and effort into their second job and not enough into the one I was paying them to do; so at least if I were interviewing you, that’s the hurdle you’d have to get over.

  197. Last Week's Project Failure*

    Last week I posted about how the project I reluctantly took on over the past year was going to fail. Good news: We may have been able to rescue it!

    But that’s not the most exciting part. What I left out last week was that I was promised a promotion and a 30% raise for taking over the project, but that never materialized. Because of that, and because I wanted to get back to the work I had been doing previously, I asked last month to be transferred back to my original team in the new fiscal year. This week I found out that 1) I’m getting my transfer! 2) I’m getting a bonus to (somewhat) compensate for the back pay of the promotion that I should have had over the past year! and 3) I may still be able to get the promotion, even though it was originally connected to the work I’m no longer going to be doing. Wahoo!!

  198. Resume Redesing*

    I work in an artistic field, so a well designed resume is a must. In a recent Adobe newsletter, they sent out a new resume template that is almost identical to mine. I’m worried this makes me look like I didn’t put any effort into my design (I did) and like I just copied an easy available template design. On the other hand, maybe my design skills are so good that Adobe is advertising them as a good example. Do I need to change my resume? Am I overthinking this?

    1. Crafty*

      I can’t say definitively but here’s one perspective: I’m a graphic designer/teach Adobe programs at the college level, and I work with many other designers and design educators….not one of us would care if it was a similar template as long as it looks good. To be honest I don’t usually even look at the sample assets they push. The person looking at your resume is much more likely to be repelled by one of those ultra-trendy, too heavily designed resume styles. I vote overthinking/no need to change.

    2. Graphic Designer*

      Overthinking it. Tweak it so it’s just enough different – either with the font or the layout. Good design will be good design no matter who does it. Everyone that designs for a living has a swipe file that they refer to now and then. I don’t get the Adobe newsletter, but I did borrow a layout from a forum member and tweaked it to my needs with their blessing.

  199. Liane*

    Anyone had experience with Universal Class dot com courses?
    It is free online courses, with certificates, that our local library system just started partnering with. Courses range from typical leisure things (dog training, flower arranging) to general education type courses (algebra, history) to things that sound useful for careers (software, business ethics). They offer Word and Excel and I am thinking about taking them, since I know nothing about the last few versions of Excel, and use Open Office’s word processor more than I do Word. (I do have access to MS Office.)

    1. modestmagenta*

      I don’t. However, I’m a huge fan of Lynda.com which looks very similar to this. Since my job ended I’ve lamented the loss of access to Lynda. But your post inspired me to check my own library to see if there was anything similar. And they have Lynda!! I was so excited. Sure I lost all my progress and my playlists but I have access again. So, thanks for inspiring me to check.

  200. Not a Millennial*

    I had an odd exchange with my boss this week, and I’m not sure whether there’s anything I should do about it.

    Background: I was hired two years ago, and in the past year was moved onto a project managed by my original boss’s boss. This is relevant because my current boss (former “grandboss”) didn’t hire me and therefore might not know my background/have ever seen my resume.

    In a conversation about which staff people to assign to a project, I recommended that it would be a good stretch project for a mid-level staff person. My boss (former grandboss) asked for further explanation of what I meant by “mid-level” (we were discussing skill level, not a formal hierarchy). I used myself as an example, saying “I don’t have the experience of Senior Leader A, but I’m not in my 20s.” My boss responded with “You’re not?!” After a few back-and-forth exchanges — I’m 38, and would have said that I look it, and I couldn’t tell if she was joking, or trying to compliment me by pretending I look younger than I do — I realized that she actually thought that I was a decade younger than I was. She played it off as a compliment — “I would never have guessed!” — but I’m troubled that she thinks of me as way less experienced than I am.

    She explained that because I was hired at the same time as several other staff who are a decade younger than me, she had assumed I was that age as well. And there is good reason for confusion: I intentionally took a job a level or two below where my experience would put me (I deliberately took a step back after spending years in a high-pressure job, which my former boss who hired me knew). I’m the clear top performer at my level, as I should be, so I’m not worried that I’m underperforming or otherwise doing anything to give an impression that I am less skilled than I am. I’m just troubled that she has been underestimating me or something.

    I thought I might share my resume with her casually, saying something like: “When we talked last week, I realized that because you weren’t involved in my hiring process you might not have a sense of my background. I’d love to talk through my experience and how it informs the work I do here sometime.” Is that weird? Should I just let this go?

    2. ByLetters*

      Holy crap, this seems brilliant. I’m not a manager, but I *am* someone who’s also a lot older than I look (yesterday someone assumed I was 19 or 20 — I’m 31). Hopefully you don’t mind if I write this down and possibly use a variation of it in the future, because it just seems awesome. Not only do I look a lot younger than I am, but I’ve made it a specialty to excel in “in between” roles where not everyone actually KNOWS what my job description is or what I do on a day to day basis. There’ve been times when I have absolutely had to pull people aside (in a friendly way!) and said “Hey, so something you said yesterday made me realize that you may not understand my role — I wanted to just kind of give you a rundown of my purpose here. I apologize for not explaining this sooner/more clearly, I know that sometimes support roles are hard to define and I hadn’t realized until then that you didn’t know.”

      Those talks have gone really, REALLY well for me; at one place I even requested (and was granted permission) to crash a department meeting so that I could introduce myself to the entire department and explain who I was, what I did, and how I supported them. Coworkers went from resentful that I had a “cushy” job to admiring how much work I put in, and were afterward eager to assist. Hopefully this similar-but-different discussion will work for you!

      Please keep us updated on whether or not you do this and how it goes!

  201. Dienna Howard*

    I signed up for coding classes through Hear Me Code: https://hearmecode.com/ It’s for women and female-identified in the DC area and is free. My first lesson is tomorrow. I did it because I’m trying to expand my skills. I’m nervous because I have never coded before but I’m sure things will be okay. It says that 85% of the attendees have never coded before, so that alleviates my nerves a little.

    1. peachie*

      Oh wow, this is awesome–thanks for sharing! I’m a DC lady trying to learn to code, too. :)

      1. Dienna Howard*

        You’re welcome! A relative mentioned looking into coding classes and I took her advice. I found out about this specific group from a Google search. Anything to expand my skill set and spread the word to let other women/female-identified know about it as well!

      2. modestmagenta*

        I’m in the DC area too. I just looked into this. I wish I would have seen it sooner. I’ve tried to teach myself coding but it hurts my brain. I think guidance is what i need.
        My new obsession (well…for like three years now) is databases.
        Anyways, even if I someone managed an RSVP for tomorrow, my son’s baseball game is tomorrow and I can’t miss it!

          1. modestmagenta*

            I think I saw the next class is May 13.
            So does the following month not add to the previous lesson? Is each month a stand alone?

            1. Dienna Howard*

              Tomorrow will be my first time attending, but from browsing the Google Group it appears that people from different levels attend on the same day.

    2. katamia*

      Ooh, I might have to check this out when Life calms down a bit in a month or two. Thanks for linking to it!

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I’d like to learn a little of this (what I can, before my dyscalculia jerks a knot in my tail). I wonder if there’s anything like that around here (probably not free) or online.

      1. Dienna Howard*

        I’d suggest Googling it and seeing if you can find free classes in your location. I Googled “free coding classes” and that’s how I found my results.

    4. Tabby Baltimore*

      Please, please, please send us an update on how it went, and whether you thought you learned anything useful.

      1. Dienna Howard*

        I thought it went great! I felt it was very informative. Granted, because it was taught in a large group setting with not many teaching assistants signed up to help out things got lost along the way (I followed 90% of the class), but they were patient. The things I managed to learn came to me quickly. They also were very pro “help your neighbor,” i.e. they would help someone out individually and ask that person to share what they learned with their neighbor. Some of the things I struggled with in the large class I figured out easily on my own at home and I’ve been fiddling around with the homework/playtime assignment given at the end of the class: creating code that says whether or not one has enough materials for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, how many can I make, how many more materials I need if I don’t have enough, etc.

        I signed up for Lesson 2 for next month. Sign up became live during the class. I managed to get a spot but it quickly became waitlisted! (For those who wondered above: Different levels/lessons are taught in the same space at the same time but in separate rooms.)

  202. Equal pay please?*

    I need a little advice this week. I work for a very liberal corporation that likes to brag about the steps it is taking to ensure equal pay in the workplace. Last month we were given out merit raises and I was very disappointed, I haven’t received such a small raise since college. I accepted it and was pretty quit in my company you can not ask for more. I was told I had done a great job and that my manager wishes she could have given me more.
    I did not act emotionally or act out but my disapointment must have shown on my face because I was called into a surprise meeting with my manager at the time and my new manager. Yhey wanted to talk about my raise and if I had any co concerns, I let them know that while I was disappointed that I understood. They started lecturing me about how I should be grateful and how my raise was larger then most. They kept pressuring me for my responses not to be PC that exact wording over and over. They also encouraged me to do project for work off the clock even though I am not salary.
    I let it go and started looking for a new job, but this is really one of the better companies in my area.
    My main issue is that I am friends with my male counterpart and I found out His raise is more than twice of what I received. Even though we have the same title and started the same day. He received a promotion after his raise as well.
    I may be up for a promotion in the next few months they are a awarded you do not apply for them here. Should I address the pay issue now or wait until my possible promotion? And how should I address this with management?

    I apologize for putting this on the wrong comment line earlier. I was in a rush and thought I clicked this one.

    1. RVA Cat*

      They’re being weird about wanting you to perform being grateful, but my main concern would be pressure to *illegally* work off the clock. Don’t do it. Is there some kind of compliance line you could call about that?

    2. H.C.*

      Yeah, the working off the clock is what jumped out at me too. Don’t.

      Regarding the pay discrepancy, I would talk an attorney specializing in sex discrimination – who can tell if you if you have a case to pursue against your employer (if you want to go that route).

      1. Equal pay please?*

        I have held firm with them about not doing projects off the clock, and my co-worker has always been willing to though. Unfortunately for a company our size, they don’t have nay great way to address issues like this. We work in a different building then hr and there are no documents about it on our internal site. I don’t want to sue, just address the issue with them.

  203. anon for this*

    I started a new job in January and I’m pretty unhappy in it and I’m not sure what to do.

    My previous job was outreach and development for a very small nonprofit (4 staff). The new job is event coordination, online communications and donor acknowledgements and whatnot at a larger nonprofit (like three times as big). I’m working under a Development Director, as opposed to just under the Executive Director–which is what I wanted, because the nonprofit I worked for before was very scrappy and I didn’t have a ton of experience but figured it out as I went, and I thought I could learn a lot by working under someone with a lot of experience in development.

    I’m just trying to figure out how rational the things that make me unhappy are, I guess? Like no job is going to be perfect and I might just be a whiner. A large part of it is just going from big fish in a small pond to small fish in a big pond, and maybe my ego is just too wrapped up into it.

    First of all, I didn’t realize how much data entry and producing donor acknowledgements there would be. I hate data entry (I have ADHD, which doesn’t help). If I was actually keeping up with the data entry, I would probably be spending one full day a week, but I’ve been so busy (just did a huge event) that I’m about two months behind at this point.

    There’s a lot more supervision than I’m used to, which is probably silly to be bothered by because it’s kind of what I’ve wanted? But I’ve been in charge of recruiting, interviewing and managing interns for years and now it’s something I have to do with my boss, for example.

    And then the parts of my field that I find the most interesting it turns out are not part of my position. I really like writing fundraising appeals. I absolutely love managing interns. I like working on the actual concepts of events. But these fall under my boss’s job.

    And, the workload seems unrealistic (I feel like I am just constantly falling behind), and the turnover is really high.

    I realize I am probably a typical entitled millennial here, where I want to do the fun things and not the boring things and want to be in charge when I’m only 30 with four-ish years of full-time nonprofit experience (also had part time jobs and internships and stuff), but I’m just really struggling with whether I need to suck it up and do this for a year (the last job on my resume was for three years) or if there are jobs that would be a better fit for me at this point in my career (and maybe they are not even fundraising jobs or nonprofit jobs, I have no idea). I am kind of missing my old job, but it paid very very badly, and at least I am making in the mid-30s now.

  204. modestmagenta*

    I recently ended a four year stint as a receptionist. The job was a lot more than greeting people and answering phones. I took the job out of need but it was way below my skill level. I had worked from home for 7 years previously managing customer accounts and scheduling appointments. At the receptionist job there was a lot of down time and I used it to teach myself access database and build databases for the company. I implemented small changes throughout the office to overall improve the daily grind for my coworkers. I helped edit our printed materials.
    On top of that I own and run an antiques booth. Before that I had a tiny business making and selling greeting cards. I also currently edit novels that have gone on to be published. I have a ton of skills and motivation and I want to find a job that uses my skills and challenges me in unique ways. That job is NOT as a receptionist. How do I go about finding a job appropriate to my skill level and then selling myself to the hiring manager as the person for the job?

      1. modestmagenta*

        I’ve been looking for Administrative Assistant…which is okay but still not exactly what I’d like to do. I’m interested in creating databases. So maybe entry level at a tech company. Even as admin assist at a tech co. and move up as I learn more. Anything in publishing. An editor, a reader…
        I realize this lacks focus but I have a broad set of skills that I can narrow down when I find the right fit.

        1. Dienna Howard*

          “So maybe entry level at a tech company.”

          That sounds like a good idea. I feel that being an admin assistant is a great idea for getting a foot in the door. I’d emphasize more of those transferable skills (managing accounts and scheduling, improving office procedures, editing) and less on those that focus on receptionist duties.

    2. MissGirl*

      You can totally look for database entry jobs. There’s also classes on sites like Lynda and Pluralsite where you could train on any skills these types of jobs are asking for that you don’t already have. It might be monotonous for a bit but at the right company, you could work your way up.

      I just completely changed my career from publishing to a data analyst role at twice my old salary, but I did have to go back to school for it. My university and others offer masters programs at night for information systems and data careers. It takes just over a year.

  205. AnonForThis*

    Rant. tldr: Coworker 1 builds smelly table, brings it to work, then goes on vacation. Coworker 2 doesn’t take the table that isn’t his home.

    My department is split between floors. One coworker built a side table (Tyrion) and brought it into the office earlier this week (then went on vacation). I assumed it was for another coworker (Jaime). Jaime was working from home most of this week, but finally came in today. Oh good. You can take home the side table that didn’t get aired out properly after being shellacked/varnished/glossed/etc. Seriously, the amount of high polish shine on this thing is stunning. Said table has been sitting in the cube next to mine for roughly 3 days. Stenching the place up nicely.

    Jaime comes in today. Admires the table. Then asks “does it have a smell?” YES. YES IT DOES.

    Jaime just left to go home. Without the table. Guess it wasn’t his table. Said table is going back down to Tyrion’s cube to stink up that floor for the weekend.

  206. Umvue*

    I’ve commented here a couple of times in the past about a job where I was feeling bored and lonely. Well, I started a new job this week, working with a lot of former coworkers from a previous job (they recruited me!), and I haven’t been this happy in ages and ages. People have been extremely welcoming, there’s plenty of interesting work to do, and I even have a window with an absurdly pretty view. I know the honeymoon is bound to end eventually, but wow, such a change.

    1. modestmagenta*

      *Like*
      I’m so happy to hear you’ve found a job you like with good people. Even if its the honeymoon phase doesn’t mean it’ll be terrible when it ends.

  207. whichsister*

    I had phone interview last week that I felt went well. It was set up by a recruiter who is actually a friend of a friend so the recruiter and I had been going back and forth about this position for a few months while the department the position was in was doing some restructioning. I felt good But I also know not to get emotionally attached. It was last Tuesday. So by this Tuesday , I had heard nothing and felt ghosted. The recruiter called late yesterday while I was in a meeting, and left a message. Calling him back became like Schrodinger’s recruiter. As long as I didn’t call back, the job was either still on or not. Well I returned his call this morning and left a message. I am not sure if I will hear from him or not.

    This job is a perfect fit. Pay wise it would put me back into market rate too. With my oldest starting college in the fall, that increase would be nice.

    My current work place culture is killing me. My performance review is 4 months late. I got reprimanded for not answering my phone when I was home sick. Two of the owners are married and squabble constantly. The insurance/benefits suck. We have a sh!t storm brewing at one of our sites that will cause us to lose one of our best people if they don’t address it, and as of today, they are allowing the status quo because they prefer to manage by hindsight.

    1. Gadfly*

      I’ve never understood why managing by hindsight seems to include never actually learning from the past.

  208. Accidental Analyst*

    I’m going to pat myself on the back for a couple of things this week:

    1. A recruiter reached out about an interview. Didn’t work out due to my notice period
    2. Applied for a job that asked for expected salary. The range wasn’t advertised but could be worked out by sliding the scale. I put a figure $20k above this. My interview is on Monday. I may not get what I ask for but it may help to negotiate other things like leave or professional development
    3. A recruiter downloaded my resume
    4. I’m very conflict adverse. Had a phone conference with two other parties which I thought went well. After debriefing with both parties it turned out there was a lot of conflict that I hadn’t picked up on. Both of them thanked me for my help in clarifying the respective positions
    5. Finished something I’d be struggling with for weeks. I gave myself person to get it finished without being perfect

    These may not seem like much but for me they’re big deals. I have low self esteem regarding my work so it’s nice to get some external validation. Also this is the first proper interview I’ve gotten by myself.

    2. SophieChotek*

      I think they are very big deals! You got some great stuff! Congrats…hope your interview goes well.

  209. Winchester*

    Can I create a position for myself and then pitch it to my manager in lieu of upward movement in my current role?

    Some background: I’m currently lead over a small team and have been at my company for almost 3 years (will be exactly 3 in August). I like this company (flexible hours, decent benefits) and would consider staying longer, but I don’t enjoy a lot of aspects of my current role. I’ve never directly managed people before, and I’m finding that I really don’t like being responsible for other people getting their work done. I also don’t think there’s much more upward movement where I’m at.

    I think I’ve identified an area of need for my department. We (individuals, teams) are responsible for creating a lot of original written email content, process documents, SOPs, templates, etc. Each team is in charge of creating and updating all of these documents for themselves, which we currently don’t have a lot of time to do. So, documents become out of date very quickly and we then scramble to make updates if a client needs to see them. The position I’m envisioning for myself would be something like a content manager. I would be responsible for the upkeep and creation of all this written content, thus ensuring everything is up-to-date and freeing up time for everyone else to work on more important/pressing tasks. This kind of work appeals to me and plays more to my strengths.

    Has anyone else ever done this? Thoughts?

    1. Accidental Analyst*

      I’ve sort of created positions for myself twice. My biggest piece of advice is don’t become so concerned (either at the start or during the role) with justifying your role that you take on duties you don’t like.

      For the type of role you’re looking at you’ll want to give your boss some current stats. How many docs there currently are. How many are out of date. What’s the impact of them being out of date. How long it generally takes to do them. Also look at the benefits from standardising the formats, freeing up the teams to work on x, helping with inboarding new employees etc. You may also want to show samples of how you’d do the docs.

      One thing to be aware of, this can be a crucial role but it can also be seen as a luxury when budgets get tight. If you’ve developed a reputation for really knowing the contents of the docs not just writing them it increases the chance you’ll get moved to another role budget cuts happen.

  210. Alex*

    I need some advice from more experienced workers on how to get the most out of team meetings. I just started my first professional job about a month ago, and mostly I think I’m fitting in quite well. I’m coming in as an analyst on a team of a little over a dozen and it’s going okay. I’m friendly with my team, have picked up most of the input editing for our specific system and am just starting to learn our output editing programmes and standards in time for the first big quarterly release.

    The one thing I’m having most trouble with are the frequent meetings. They make sense when they’re for a specific purpose, like for the three groups within/outside our team to talk about what our different datasets look like this quarter and whether that is trending roughly similarly. But we also have morning stand-ups from 9:30 to 10:00, when everyone lists their tasks for the day, weekly team meetings of an hour, where our manager updates us on what he’s been up to and everyone summarises where they’re at, and fortnightly one-on-ones with our manager where we just kind of check in. Our group is very small and specialised – right now, it’s me, a processor, and another analyst who’s there on a temporary basis (so doesn’t actually come to team meetings or stand ups) to help train me and act as primary analyst while I catch up – so there’s only so much to contribute. The biggest group within our team is 9 people, and it makes sense to me that they need to talk to one another and help divide tasks, especially since we’re hot-desking on a big floor. But our little group isn’t even all at these meetings and if we were, could more easily discuss things in our little cluster. The guy who’s literally his own group comes to all the meetings too, lists his daily/weekly schedule and doesn’t speak otherwise and it all just feels like we’re unnecessary.

    I don’t know. I do like the social aspect, and I was able to volunteer to help out the big group with an external request a few weeks back when I had a relatively empty day and they were all flat out, but I don’t know that once a month of usefulness feels like an appropriate tradeoff for ~4 hours a week of listening to other people talk about the emails they had to send and the data they had to check. What am I missing?

    1. Dizzy Steinway*

      That’s quite a lot of meetings! We do weekly team catch-ups and monthly 121s. Any more and it would interfere with getting work done. Also, updating on emails sent and such sounds a bit pointless. We just discuss: what we are working on when (eg I’ll be working on the purple teapots on Friday so need any design updates by then, I’m working on the blue ones next week but can move things round if you still need help mixing glazes), days we are on leave or out of the office, and anything really important. We are quite dispersed and do lots of solo work so it’s nice to catch up but only with people who need to know this stuff. Detailed project updates don’t belong there, only the top line.

      However some workplaces like having pointless catch-up meetings. You don’t have to listen to everything if you know that’s the case – you could just think about your own work…

  211. Amaryllis*

    We’ve discussed before on AAM about how for some (most?) office jobs, it may be okay for employees to be a few minutes late every now and then (except if you’re the receptionist or you have to open up, etc). So do these places do away with the notion of tardiness or is that still something that bosses track?

    1. Daria Grace*

      It really depends on the individual manager. My manager doesn’t seem to care but the manager of the other team that sits near me does seem to care, especially when it involves people with poor performance.

    2. Thlayli*

      Depends on the job. My last company didn’t care what time I came in or went home, or even if I worked from home or in the office, so long as the work was done and I submitted a time sheet with a minimum of 39 hours.

      My current job has a time clock so I have to clock in and out. No one cares when I clock in and out so long as I put in the correct number of hours.

    3. Lemon Zinger*

      Depends on the boss. I try to stick to 8-5 as closely as possible. If I wind up coming in 20 minutes late (pretty much the latest I ever am), I just make myself available during some of my lunch break to compensate. I am salaried.

    4. copy run start*

      Hmm. In my job, it’s not an issue. We usually average over 40 hours and are exempt. We do network maintenances and customer service cutovers after hours often enough that I just expect I might not see Bob until 10 a.m. if I know he had a late night/early morning.

      I’m supposed to be at work at 8 a.m. I guess if I was always showing up at 8:30 with no explanation and not working additional hours it might be a problem. We have keycards and camaras that would catch when we enter/leave the building, but no timeclock. Not sure how long it would take for someone to notice though.

    5. fposte*

      For the positions I supervise that don’t have an on-time component, I don’t track time, period. That is the gift of flexibility to me as a manager–I just pay attention to whether stuff gets done.

    6. Mud*

      This is something that companies really should do away with if dealing with staff that are not critical customer facing employees. An employee should be measured on their ability to complete their work on time and with quality. If someone comes in 10-15 minutes late and gets right to work, spends little to no time frolicking around the office, or chatting or gossiping with other coworkers, they should not be reprimanded (sometimes publicly made an example of) or considered disrespectful for not following rules. I often view that as a manager who is having a struggle with power and control.

      There are some people who go to work on time, or even early, that spend so much time away from their desk or chatting, that they may get a fraction of the work done as the person who arrives late.

      That’s not to say that there aren’t times where arriving late isn’t inappropriate (having a scheduled meeting, interview, etc), but in reality even in those cases, sometimes life happens and it’s out of their control. There are many reasons why people are late, but they often aren’t explained because they’re immediately viewed as excuses by the by-the-clock managers or maybe there are personal reasons they don’t want to get into.

      Overall, being allowable should really be based on the function of that person’s job and their ability to manage their time spent actually working compared to the average. It’s also important to realize that if you manage several departments, if someone in a time sensitive role complains that someone in a different type of role has different rules, it’s ok to explain that it is because they have a different job. So long as everyone in the same job role gets the same allowance, and the expectations are reasonable.

      Micromanaging can be the difference in an employee that works persistently above expectations and feels confident about their job, and one that gets dragged down by constant nitpicking procedures, lowering their ability to provide their best work to their company.

    7. BBBizAnalyst*

      I’m salaried. My boss and sr. Boss don’t track time at all. Our earliest team member gets in at 7:30 and our latest team member arrives at 10. They’re both great at their jobs and respected in the office. I get in around 9/9:15 most days.

      As long as the job is getting done, we are free to come and go as we please. I think that flexibility is a major deal breaker for me. I couldn’t go back to working in an environment that tracked my time.

  212. Daria Grace*

    Anyone got advice on dealing with with a manager who makes a lot of the sub-optimal things that happen in the office all about their feelings, pride and reputation? I’m not talking about staff creating PR crisises that will haunt the manager for years. It’s things like rants about how they’re so embarrassed to have to explain to more senior management that our team missed target for the last week that they’re loosing sleep and their wellbeing is suffering. Or it’s things like making it all about how their feelings were hurt when staff indicate on feedback surveys that their manager doesn’t treat them well. Knowing that it all could be derailed into a guilt-laden discussion about how it impacts the manager makes me very hesitant to raise problems or push back on questionable plans for the department.

    1. Colette*

      I assume you report to that manager?

      If so, there’s not much you can do except stop feeding that behaviour – she moans about how hard it is, you blankly wait for it to stop, and then you pick up with a calm statement unrelated to her feelings.

      Unless, of course, you have a good relationship with her manager and trust her to handle it well.

        1. Gadfly*

          I think you are stuck (short of going nuclear by talking to her manager). Colette’s option works unless she’s the type who will take offense at that. Is she the type to be mollified by sympathetic noises while you mostly ignore her and get your work done?

  213. Overeducated*

    Today I got rejected for a job I applied for at least a year ago. (It felt kind of like a second rejection sent long after I wrote off the job just to tickle my sense of inferiority.)

    1. SophieChotek*

      Ugh I am sorry. Yeah…that must have been one long job process.

      Once I got rejected 2x for the same job. I checked my records to ensure I hadn’t applied 2x (like they posted job, took down, and reposted slightly revised). Nope I had only applied once, but they felt the need to tell me 2x I wasn’t qualified.

      Hang in there!

  214. jamlady*

    Juggling 2 offers (potential – I’m in the conditional phase for both as they’re both government) – I know I should be thankful, but it’s actually really stressful!

    1. SeekingBetter*

      Try taking in some deep breaths to relieve the stress. Hope you will be happy choosing which offer to accept :)

  215. Jessen*

    Is there any good way to get around online application forms that you think you might be screened out of on grounds that aren’t fair?

    Like, I had an application I’m pretty sure I got screened out of for having too many jobs in the last 10 years. Thing is, as a fresh graduate, most of those were summer or otherwise short-term jobs. I wasn’t a job hopper, I just had a lot of temporary jobs.

    Or a problem a family member had was that he had 30 years experience in a field that he has no degree in. A lot of jobs would explicitly ask “do you have a degree in X” and automatically screen out anyone who didn’t have a degree.

    1. CAA*

      I’m not aware of any ATS that screens resumes based on the number of jobs held. It’s really unlikely that if you’re applying for entry-level jobs that someone would setup a screener that filters out new graduates. It’s normal and expected that students hold short-term jobs. It’s a lot more likely that the employer got 100+ resumes from new grads and yours just wasn’t in the top 10 that they setup phone interviews with.

      That said, you usually don’t have to put everything you’ve ever done on an application form, unless it’s one of those government jobs where the application clearly says to list every position you’ve ever held. Just put the ones that are relevant to the particular job you’re applying for.

      1. Jessen*

        This one that I was thinking of specifically asked “how many jobs have you held in the last 10 years.” And it was one of those minimum-wage jobs where they’re perpetually hiring and never have enough people to fill the positions.

        1. CAA*

          I guess it’s possible that they’re screening based on the number of jobs held, since they ask it as a separate question. I still think it’s unlikely though. If it’s a minimum wage job and they never have enough people to fill the positions, it’s pretty silly for them to screen out the type of people who they would actually be able to hire at minimum wage.

          Without being inside the process, there’s no way that you or I could know the exact reason they decided not to interview you. If it’s really because you held too many jobs in the past 10 years, then it’s their choice to have stupid hiring practices that will keep them in the situation of not having enough people to fill their open positions and there’s really no way for you to get around it.

    2. SophieChotek*

      I am not sure I would recommend this – but once I actually got the HR office when my resume got screened out because I didn’t have a degree….that was not a requirement for the job.

      (I think I got an auto-email that said “thanks for submitting, but we cannot accept your application at this time due to not having degree X.) But I had degree Y which was equivalent; and in fact the job requirement said Degree Y and Z and made no mention of degree X at all!

      I called or emailed the HR office and asked them about this and they manually accepted/overrode the system. I never got an interview or anything, but at least I felt like I got a fair chance.

      – regarding your situation – depending on how the question is: do you actually have to put all those short-time summer jobs/temp jobs/job during school? Is it asking for all work history (no matter what?) or relevant work? Not sure if that would cut down at all.

      1. CAA*

        That’s a little different. You know for sure that the reason you were screened out was due to an error in the screening criteria, so informing them of the error was a kind thing to do. I’m sorry you didn’t get interviewed though.

  216. RunnerGirl*

    Hi There!

    I’m a little late to the Friday party, but I’m hoping I could get some advice on a work situation.

    I’ve been in my current role for 4-1/2 years. I’ve been doing this type for work for about 10 years. To help make the volume of work that comes in manageable, there is a team of 4 that need to work together. We have cubicles and a high partition in the middle of our desks. There are two people on each side.

    One of my team members is very difficult to work with. They consistently bypass me and go talk to the other team members about matters that affect me and my work. I have made several efforts to communicate with them and ask them to include me in communications, but nothing changes. I have even brought it up with my direct supervisor, and nothing gets said.

    I’m in the middle of moving and have made a couple of personal calls at my desk. Other people make and take personal calls throughout the day at their desks. Someone complained about me and now I am the only one who has to go to a separate room to make any calls that aren’t work related.

    Afterwards, I decided I would wear headphones and listen to my music while I work. For the past two weeks I’ve been very productive and responding to requests even faster than I had previously.

    Now, I’m getting grief from my direct supervisor. I ask a question and she takes tone with me.

    I feel like I can’t get a break here.

    I’m doing courses so I can get a job in another field. The position I have is a dead end job and there’s no way I can move up from it.

    I would really appreciate any suggestions on what else I can be doing.

    Thanks all!

    1. Colette*

      I’m concerned about your relationship with your supervisor. Did you mention you were going to start wearing headphones? How will that help you communicate with your coworkers, since that’s a key part of your job?

      Since you think she has a tone with you, have you asked for feedback on what she’d like you to do differently?

      Have you asked for advice on working with your difficult coworker?

      You supervisor doesn’t sound great, but there are ways you can help yourself here.

      1. RunnerGirl*

        I have asked my direct supervisor on more than one occasion and her only reply has been it’s ok as long as we are quiet and can hear our phones when they ring.

        I’m just so sick of listening to my difficult team member get in a huff about anything and everything. They help me to block that out so I can get my work done.

        I have mentioned my attempts to work with the other team members and how they don’t communicate in response. She said she’d address it at a team meeting, but that was a few weeks ago. No meeting has been scheduled. And she hasn’t done any performance reviews either.

        1. Gadfly*

          I don’t know what to say. That is part of what pushed me out of my last job–I was part of a sub team of 3 where the other two took a liking to each other and disliked me. And even though it was impacting my ability to do my job that they didn’t communicate, my supervisor kept hearing my problem as whining about them not being buddies with me. I get that they don’t have to want to chat with me and be social! I get that not everyone is going to like each other! I ONLY want them to tell me when they go outside and around the system to do things to my projects so that I know about it instead of discovering that they built a new ad for client X that only exists in their files when client X is pissed that ad wasn’t what ran because the rep said to use what we’ve got meaning the one I don’t know about.

          And as the squeaky wheel, I was the problem. After all, they didn’t have this problem with each other or with me doing this to them. Without me objecting, the manager could ignore the problem for a while. So I became the bigger problem in her eyes, is all I can figure.

          1. RunnerGirl*

            Thanks for the reply.

            I’m in the middle of moving right now, but once I’m settled my #1 priority is to find another job.

            I’m at a loss as to what else I can do. I really don’t think there’s anything. Other than go in, do my work, keep communications to e-mail and cc my boss on everything and go home at the end of the day.

            My sanity is worth more than any paycheck. If the difficult whiner wants to get wound up and defensive all the time, that’s her choice. I just choose to wear headphones so I don’t have to listen to it anymore.

  217. Heynonnynon*

    Since it hasn’t been announced at the office yet but I’m going to burst if I don’t say… I got promoted!!

    Equally excited and terrified. What’s your advice for new managers?

  218. Anon A Mousse*

    So any resource suggestions? I’m going to start job hunting soon and when I think about it I’m all but in tears. I’m confident about my abilities and being a great asset, but not about getting past the first interview where they see me. A majority of managers surveyed in repeated surveys over multiple years always clearly state that they think it is fine to pay people who look like me less, not hire them, not promote them, etc (it isn’t illegal except in a very few places, so they have no reason to hide it.) And I’ve been to those interviews where they loved me until they saw me, and their faces go from welcoming to stiff or disgusted. And that does trigger all the verbal and physical bullying I’ve received over the years, and I simply don’t show my best when part of my lizard brain is screaming “danger!”

    Mantras are lovely for changing beliefs, but not so great at grappling with cold, hard facts. A lot of well meaning people have tried telling me the problem is my expectations and to a point I accept that–but my expectations are backed by a lot of objective information that says I am more likely do be dismissed entirely than I am even to have a chance at fighting the biases involved.

    Any suggestions of things like books or websites on how to prepare for interviews when the deck is heavily stacked against you in this way? (And please don’t tell me that means I don’t want to work there–I have to work somewhere, and it isn’t at all comforting to be told that I missed out on living with discrimination and a paycheck and get to just live with discrimination instead.)

    1. Dienna Howard*

      “Mantras are lovely for changing beliefs, but not so great at grappling with cold, hard facts. A lot of well meaning people have tried telling me the problem is my expectations and to a point I accept that–but my expectations are backed by a lot of objective information that says I am more likely do be dismissed entirely than I am even to have a chance at fighting the biases involved.”

      Ah, The Secret thinking. “If you think positively then positive things will happen for you!” I’ve read that book and watched its documentary, but I’m torn on how to feel about it. Yes, I do believe that it’s better to have a positive mindset, but simply thinking positively doesn’t help one get a job or pay the bills. I go through anxiety and depression and try as I might to do otherwise I tend to see the worst in things, which is being exacerbated since I’m currently unemployed and struggling to get back on my feet. No advice since I’m going through the same thing myself, but I do hear you.

      1. Anon A Mousse*

        And part of the skill set I offer is being able to take facts and work with them. I am excellent at putting out fires or whipping them up, and that takes knowing reality. To misquote Terry Prattchett (because I can’t find the exact quote) if you want to build castles in the clouds, you best be standing on bedrock.

        1. Anon A Mousse*

          Found it!
          “A philosopher might have deplored this lack of mental ambition, but only if he was really certain about where his next meal was coming from.
          In fact Lancre’s position and climate bred a hard-headed and straightforward people who often excelled in the world down below. it had supplied the planins with many of their greatest wizards and witches and, once again, the philospher might have marveled that such a four-square people could give the world so many successful magical practitioners, being quite unaware that only those with their feet on rock can build castles in the air.”
          ― Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum

    2. Trillian*

      All I can suggest is that you focus on companies that have made diversity and tolerance part of policy, and then use social media to try and get a reading as to how well they walk the walk. Inclusivity in one respect doesn’t guarantee exclusivity in others, but I’d say it increases the likelihood. Look at the company website and social media, LinkedIn, and the public presences of employees. Look at what they sponsor and the causes they promote. Look at the make-up and affiliations of their board. How much does management skew older, majority race/ethnicity, male-presenting? How much variety is there in dress and gender presentation? Do they look like a group of people you could be comfortable with?

  219. Say My Name*

    My new boss is … flaky. He forgets everything,d oesn’t read email, and loses print items. I realized that after working daily with him for about 7 months, he did not know my name. As in, he called me different co-workers’ names, or referenced a conversation he’d had with someone else as a convo with me, and gave credit to other people for work I clearly and publicly did. I must have mentioned this to the wrong person, because he is now aggressively cheerful and weirdly greeting me several times a day…with variations of my name that I don’t use. Like, if I went by Elizabeth, several times a day he walks by and chirps, “Beth!” “Heeeey Lizzie,” and “Howzitgoing Ellie.” No level of ” managing up” exists for this.

    1. SeekingBetter*

      Wow! this is really bad, and I’m sorry to hear about it. Is there a way that you can address this with him during a scheduled meeting and let him know about all of this? It wouldn’t be good to just put up with this behavior for any longer. I hope you’re job searching if you aren’t planning to stay. Good luck!

  220. Number 6*

    I just finished my first week at a new job. I really like it and think it’s a great fit!

    However, I’ve realized that in past jobs and again here, as the new person I try to do my best (especially for the first few weeks) to be available at my desk whenever the people training me have a new task to show or assign me, etc. The problem is, I’ve noticed this sometimes leads me to procrastinate when I feel the signals for basic, reasonable self-care things like walking down the hall for a moment to stretch my legs, staying hydrated, etc. I know that’s something I’m putting on myself, not what the employer expects of me. Does anyone else struggle with this pressure to be a little overly attentive when you’re new at a job, and if so, how do you handle it?

    1. SophieChotek*

      No I hear you. You want to make a good impression and don’t want to look like you are slacking off and have nothing to do. I think it is a perfectly normal response to have!

    2. Thlayli*

      Not specifically when I’m new but I do put off taking breaks e.g. Won’t eat till I’m starving, won’t go to the loo till I’m bursting etc.

      I find setting a timer helps. E.g. It is reasonable to take a 5 min break every hour so set a phone timer (on buzz only) for 50-55 mins every time you sit down to work and then take a break.

  221. Newly Promoted In Secret*

    Three weeks ago, my supervisor ‘Cassandra’ was offered a director position at another company, and gave our department director ‘Michael’ three weeks notice. Cassandra has been with our company for 17 years, Michael has been there longer, and Cassandra was always kept a title or two below where she should have been. By the end, Cassandra was basically doing much of Michael’s job, but being paid a little over half as much as him. She had been voicing her concerns to a member of the C-suite for about a year, and over the last couple months had mentioned to them (and me) that she if the right opportunity came along she would take it unless she got a promotion, and they did nothing.

    After Cassandra announced she was leaving, our company made an incredible counter-offer, and Cassandra declined saying she didn’t want move up this way – she should have been acknowledged rather than having to threaten. Even though Michael told her not to tell anyone, Cassandra kept me informed throughout this saga so that I would know that she was about to leave and that they could certainly find the funds give me a raise after she left.

    The following Monday, Michael told me and others in the department that Cassandra was leaving. Michael and HR invited me to talk on Tuesday, and on Wednesday I was offered (and accepted) a promotion and ~40% raise.

    This new position puts me one title below where Cassandra was when she left and at about the same salary as she had when she left. I have been at the company for 3 years, was hired in a role below my skill level, had already received 3 promotions in those 3 years, and was underpaid the whole time. This is an extremely fast move up the chain, yet it also puts me at a level and salary that are justified based on my skills and experience.

    Michael has told me that I cannot tell Cassandra. Everyone else in the department knows about the promotion, and was also told not to tell Cassandra. Today was her last day, and still I’m not supposed to tell her, and haven’t been told when I can. This upcoming Monday my promotion will be announced at work , I’ll change my email signature, and my title will change on the website, so it’s not going to be a secret and Cassandra will easily see it if I email her a question.

    I know that the news will be bittersweet. She fought hard for every single promotion I got, said she hopes they ‘learn their lesson’ and give me a raise, and that if I’m not promoted by the end of the year I should leave. She felt very underappreciated, and so it will also hurt that I was able to make it to this level and salary so much quicker than she did. But at least she can take pride in knowing that we’re both moving up thanks to her decision. However if she finds out the “wrong” way, I think the news will be far more bitter than sweet, and I risk losing a good mentor and friend.

    Do I keep quiet to obey a direct order from Michael? Do I honor my relationship with Cassandra and ask her to keep it quiet? Do I push back more with Michael to see if he will let me tell her as soon as its made public? Are there any other options?

    1. Librariana*

      I think you contact her as soon as the promotion is made public. The company has learned from her departure and she will likely be pleased for you.

      1. Chaordic One*

        Personally, I think I might talk to Cassandra after work on Friday or on Saturday or Sunday if you have a personal phone number for her.

        It would also be considerate to thank Cassandra for the help she’s given you as a mentor and as a friend. I might even send her a bouquet on her first day at her new job, wishing her well.

          1. Newly Promoted In Secret*

            Only time will tell if they learned, but I am somewhat optimistic in part because I will begin having regular check-ins with HR and with Michael’s boss so that I have more support and guidance outside of the department. It’s also promising that none of the other departments have had the same problems with promotions and salaries, so I think that was mostly due to Michael being the director and senior leadership giving him autonomy over his team.

    2. Anon A Mousse*

      Would it make sense for you to ask her to call you or know that you’ll call her Monday ? Or meet you somewhere Monday? So she knows you are thinking of her, and that you have something you just can’t tell her before then? So if it comes out wrong, before you talk she’ll have an idea that you are going to talk to her but had a gag order?

  222. Kerr*

    Ugh. I feel your pain. It’s “just a conversation starter,” but what if I don’t want our conversation built on that specific framework?
    I successfully pushed back on this when my supervisor wanted our team to take what sounds like the same test. (Ha, the butterflies! I may have had this as *one* of my results…) It made me nervous – I didn’t want to be “not a team player” and all that jazz, but personality tests on the job are a big fat NOPE for me. Especially the “confident/turbulent” score, which has no place at work and could be difficult (and variable!) for someone with mental health issues.
    And yeah, that particular test seems to veer in the direction of sexist. Not to mention being of dubious accuracy. If we’re looking at the same type(s) here, nope, I don’t want my employer assuming that I will work for a lower salary for warm feelings, or that facts are supposedly less important for me (?!), or that I don’t do “practical” stuff well (double ?!).
    Even in MBTI, it’s not supposed to be static and permanent for the remainder of your lifetime, so why the boxes, people?

  223. Dizzy Steinway*

    Yesterday’s post about the social media guidelines (question 2 over on Inc) was very timely as I’ve experienced this from the other side this week and I’m having a hard time not showing how BEC I’m feeling.

    We need input from another team on one piece of information about, let’s say, heart surgery (I can’t make this work with teapots). We need them to tell us what colour gloves the surgeon is meant to wear. They are questioning the type of operation being done (not their job to query or understand), copy pasting irrelevant guidelines and asking increasingly ridiculous questions like “is this actually a type of bone?” It is not their place to query or expect us to spend time justifying the type of surgery. (It’s not actually surgery but works as a metaphor). We have people with extensive expertise and training making these decisions. They just need to tell us about glove colours for this type of operation and are way overstepping. It might have been legit to ask once, but they asked in a really tone-deaf way and now just will not let it go.

    I don’t have to do anything as senior colleague is handling the interaction with them but they keep cc’ing me and I’m getting increasingly annoyed and just needed to vent. I would dearly love to tell them: go train as a surgeon, then you can have an opinion on this.

  224. @non*

    Does anyone have any advice for conquering jealousy that a colleague might be better at the job than you are? Has anyone else been in a similar scenario?

    To make matters worse, this person is an intern who has previous experience in our field. He is a know it all and a mansplainer which is making me dislike him.

    Other colleagues are making comments such as, “Where would we be without you?” when he completes a simple task. I don’t make these comments because I think his ego is overinflated already. There are things I do that he either can’t do or can’t do as well, but it’s all still getting to me.

    Please be kind if responding. It’s taken a lot for me to admit this to myself and also to mention it here.

    1. Stella's Mom*

      I would say, that like you noted, you could try to find ways to boost your sense of self by taking on things you are good at, and feeling good about those tasks once done. I sometimes get the same sense of annoyance too, when a person with a lot of ego gets praised and then goes on to have an even bigger ego.

      Can you share if you are in direct competition with him for things like bonuses or other rewards – is there a chance that he could come on full time after his internship as a colleague and put your role in jeopardy? Or is it internal-feelings only? Are the people praising him his supervisors? Are there other things in your life that may also be making you feel “less than” and contributing to this irritation? (I ask, as I had to figure this out for myself recently, my work life and stress in personal life were getting to me a lot.) Maybe one thing you can do is try to make him an ally, go to lunch with him to get to know him better, and see if that helps?

  225. Subject of Gossiping*

    Hi all, I need some advice. Does anyone here have recommendations on how to deal with a well-educated, late 40’s woman colleague who is often slagging off other colleagues (younger men especially in a male-dominated field), talking about how she’d be a better manager than Junior Developer Guy, gossiping about others’ dating lives (she has been single as long as I have known her, 5 years), and who is a hyper-competitive person and very sarcastic to everyone all the time? She and I used to be friends but that stopped because…

    This woman introduced me to my most recent boyfriend, her colleague. He and I dated for the past 2.5 years. He is on her larger project team, and she has known him for 15 years and helped him (encouraged him to apply, and supported him in interviews) to get the job he is in now. She pushes him around a lot (others notice this too, in our larger circle of overlapping colleagues-friends) and he is an introvert who does not like conflict at all, and sees her as a close friend whose “trusted guidance” because “they’ve been thru a lot” means a lot to him.

    We split up recently (his decision as he wanted to be single and I am “complicated” per his assessment)and while I don’t work on their team, we have about ten friends in common. She is gossiping about our breakup and it is really difficult for me to deal with on top of the emotional stuff of the breakup. I heard from 4 of our mutual friends about her telling them he and I had split up and how happy she is, since she does not like me at all. On top of this, my ex refuses to believe that she gossips, even tho others have mentioned it to him, and refuses to see her in any sort of realistic way.

    I am seeing a therapist, and dealing with my stuff, and I know I need to just let it all go and hope that, especially if we are to continue to have overlapping friends, that I can deal with my feelings in a healthy, mature manner. If you have any advice on how to manage this, I would appreciate it. And yes, I admit I am a bit jealous of her, and I am thinking having pretty much no contact with this entire group of people for a while so I can manage my emotions better.

    1. Subject of Gossiping*

      Also this may be better for the non-work open thread, but since it involved colleagues-friends I wanted to ask here. Happy to move it or if needed, it can be deleted.

    2. MuseumChick*

      Would you feel comfortable speaking to her directly, “Jane, I’ve heard from several people that you’ve been discussion Jack and I’s recent break up. I really prefer for my personal life to stay out of work so I’m going to ask you to please stop.” No doubt she will want to know who you heard this from or brush it off as “not a big deal” all you have to say is “It doesn’t matter. I’m asking you to please not discuss my personal life.”

      1. Subject of Gossiping*

        Not particularly, but it may be a good idea. It would mean having to go to another part of campus, very out of my way and I may run into my ex as well, which at this point I am not sure I can do. But it would be a good idea to nip it in the bud. I will ask my therapist on ways to mitigate my stress to be able to do this. She can be aggressive, and has yelled loudly at me in the past in front of people (just as he and I began to date, her yelling was about the dating and she did not approve.)

    3. Trillian*

      You could also say to your friends that if they could see their way to shutting her down if she does gossip, you would appreciate it, and in any case, you do not want to hear what she is saying. It doesn’t reflect on them well at all, the combination of letting it go on, and then carrying tales. What do they expect you to do about it? (You could also ask them that.)

      Put up your shields, be amiable to your ex, civil to the gossips, and deflect all probes as to the state of your heart with the blandest superficialities. And, where appropriate, back up the colleagues she is trying to undermine. Build your own alliances. She sounds toxic, both in her work and personal life, which means she’s one strong manager away from an unpleasant reckoning.

      1. Subject of Gossiping*

        This is good advice, on the shields. As a Star Trek fan, I love this. She is quite toxic, but also very, very smart and her work is good even if she is abrasive. In a way I wish her manager would deal with her – she’s run off at least one good, younger male developer on the project she works on. (In the end he got a much better job so it was ok, if unpleasant for him.)

  226. Annie Admin*

    I couldn’t make it yesterday but I’m hoping someone can give me some insight. I’m an admin who finally has convinced my boss that I have too much on my plate and that resulted in getting a temp to ease some of the burden during our busy season. I wear many hats and do a lot of different tasks daily. Our health and safety manager (who is over our site but lives and works from another state) was in the office this week. He asked for my cell number for a backup contact. I went ahead and gave it to him not really thinking about it. A few minutes after he left to travel back home, I get an email from a company we are using to handle our local safety and emergency plan with a draft of our new policy asking to verify if the numbers were correct. In bright red letters there is my name listed as the emergency corrdinator and my personal cell number. I immediately responded that that was my personal number and I would not like to have that as a main point of contact. The woman apologized and had no idea. I’m wondering if I’m overreacting. I don’t mind using my personal phone to answer quick questions after hours like telling someone where a document is or the like but having my personal number as my main point of contact feels out of bounds.

    1. Annie Admin*

      Oops hit submit too fast. I’m also peeved because I just got some help to get a few things off my plate and it feels like he is taking that as a sign I can take on more. I haven’t talked to my boss about it yet so how should I bring it up. I know it wouldn’t be a whole lot of extra work but I can’t have my work calling me at all hours on my cell for emergencies. If they were to give me a work cell it wouldn’t be a problem but I also live 45 minutes away. It really grinds my gears when yet another responsibility is thrown at me with no instruction. What does an emergency corridinator do anyway??? Ugh sorry for the rant!

    2. SophieChotek*

      I don’t (personally) think you are over-reacting. (I know I would not want my personal number given out to be called at all hours). I guess the question I have is: does “backup emergency contact” even fall within your purview? What would you be expected to do? Are those expectations reasonable? Are you equipped to do them? (Do you get paid for being a back-up contact, or is everything salaried?)

    3. Observer*

      Absolutely out of bounds. For a safety manager to put someone’s number down for the primary emergency contact without verifying that explicitly first is also a jaw droppingly bad idea. I cant imagine what he was thinking.

  227. SeekingBetter*

    I know I haven’t been posting anything much lately because I’ve been busy! But I just wanted to let everyone know that I’ve been working a full-time position as a Teapot Designer for the past 1.5 months now!! This isn’t a permanent position since the employer has budgeted for up to two years for my position, but at least it’s something for now.

    Happy Saturday!

    1. Emily*

      Congratulations on your current position, and here’s to hoping you also find something more permanent!

  228. Less-frustrated grad student (but still looking for advice)*

    I’m probably too late for this week’s open thread and will try to get here earlier next week, but in case anyone is still hanging around:

    A few weeks ago, I posted about some of my struggles with my PhD. Things like being pulled in too many directions at once, dreading our group’s long, multiple-trip/multiple-experiment summer field season, having too many long meetings, and struggling to prioritize my own research needs over the demands of the lab.

    Since I posted, I had a talk with my advisor about the kinds of things I do and don’t like working on, what I want my dissertation research and post-graduation job to look like, and some of my current frustrations with the workload (mostly about how when I have too many disparate tasks to juggle – as is common in our lab – I can’t work effectively on any of them). He seemed sympathetic to my concerns, although he doesn’t necessarily think that the demands of our lab will let up anytime soon.

    Here’s the thing, though: he let me know that another professor in our department has funding for a project that might (?) be an okay fit for me (more data analysis/computational modeling, less instrumentation/field work, and still within my general interest area). The thing is, I’d actually have to switch advisors and shift my research focus in order to do it! Which could be okay (I’m not very far into my own research yet), but sounds a little drastic. My advisor seems like he would be 100% on board with my decision either way – he’d be okay with me leaving if I think it would be better for me in the long run, but he isn’t trying to push me out of the group.

    I’ll probably be meeting with the other professor next week to find out the specifics of the project, but after that I’ll need to decide pretty quickly. It feels like a big decision – does anyone have any advice for me (things to ask the other professor about his project/his advising style, things for me to consider about staying in my current group vs. making the switch, etc.)?

    1. SophieChotek*

      I guess my question is (since your field is too different from mine) is: do you want to switch your research focus? Is that trade-off worth the other benefits?

      a lot of times people plan to work on their pet project for their dissertation — and while sometimes they do go on to become experts in that area and get tons of research articles/their first book out of that dissertation, I also know several people who wrote dissertation in topic X but later became experts/specialists in something completely different in topic Y. (I don’t know if their advisor made them write topic X, but they really wanted to do topic Y all along, or if they later became more interested in Y.)

      Also — when you think ahead to being on the market/your job search — will broadening your knowledge with the shift if focus be helpful? Make you more rounded? Give you new insight into your original research direction?

      Sorry if I am not very helpful; my experiences and fields of study are probably too disparate from yours for me to write with any insight!

  229. DesertCactus*

    I’m in a pickle. I’ve had a vacation scheduled with my family for almost a year – hotels purchased, arrangements made to watch the house, vacation time taken off. The venue is sold out for months. I’ve been looking forward to this vacation even more that work has been the busiest and most stressful that it’s ever been. It’s been so busy that I haven’t been able to take a vacation day for a year so this was like my reward. It’s finally here next week.

    My co-worker called today to let me know that his dad had passed away. His dad was diagnosed with cancer last month and it progressed very quickly. He is still under probation but was able to take off a few days last week to fly to another state see him and didn’t think he would pass so soon. He is requesting that I cancel my vacation so he can fly out attend the funeral. We’re a 2-person department and one of us has to be in the office.

    After writing this the obvious answer is to cancel my vacation and let him go. I’d feel absolutely awful preventing someone from attending the funeral of their family member no matter how their relationship played out (according to co-worker they didn’t have a great relationship). I also have inside information that co-worker is going to be put on a PIP next week but I can’t imagine that our boss will let a PIP stop co-worker from attending the funeral.

    Do I suck it up, take the financial loss, and let co-worker go?

    1. Temperance*

      I actually don’t think that you should cancel your vacation and take the financial hit. I think coworker and you should talk to the boss.

    2. MissGirl*

      Yes, your boss should be making this work for the both of you. How many days would the department really be out? If you can stand the risk, I would say both of you explain the situation to your boss and that you’re are both going and you trust your company to make it work under less than ideal circumstances.

      PS: If they can’t respect this, start job hunting.

      1. SophieChotek*

        I agree. I mean unexpected circumstances come up — we all get this — but you would be taking a huge financial hit. Honestly, I think your company either need stop somehow compensate you financially if you stay…(?). If I was your co-workers I would feel bad if I couldn’t go to my parent’s funeral (and I wanted to go), but I would also feel bad if my going prevented you from going on your long-planned vacation.

        I really hope you get to work something out!

    4. Dizzy Steinway*

      Also with only two people surely there will be some times when circumstances mean neither of you can be there. Can you get a temp in?

    5. Imaginary Number*

      Your coworker should not be asking you this, in my opinion. All of this should be going through your boss. And if your boss is any sort of reasonable person, he/she should find a way to deal with both of you being gone at the same time.

      I can understanding requiring that two people balance their planned time off so that neither is out at the same time, but your boss needs to be able to deal with a situation like this. What if you were on vacation and your coworker broke his leg? There has to be a way for them to deal with this. That may mean asking one or both of you to take a laptop with you and answer emails once a day.

    6. Imaginary Number*

      I would also like to emphasize that, if you choose not to cancel your vacation and your boss doesn’t allow your coworker to go: that is in NO WAY your fault and you should not feel guilty about it. That’s your boss/company being ridiculously unreasonable.

    7. Beezus*

      I’m chiming in to say that you should talk to your boss, too. Any half-decently run business should have a way to scramble coverage for whatever you’re covering for a couple of days in an emergency, and this is an emergency. Let your boss figure it out. Don’t offer to cancel your vacation. Stop considering that as an option. You’ve had this scheduled for a year and you’ve paid for it. You haven’t had any time off for a year. It’s your coworker’s parent. Both of you need to be off and your boss needs to figure out a way to make that happen.

  230. Mimmy*

    TL;DR –
    a) How does one define “long-term position”?
    b) How do you stay patient when you know you don’t want to stay in a particular position for very long?

    So I’ve been in my new job for 3 weeks now. I’m finally getting used to it but I’m honestly not “feeling it” as much as I thought I would when I was first offered the position. I keep telling myself that it’s just a stepping stone. However, I can’t help but think back to when, during the interview, I was asked “do you see this as a long-term position?” I said yes. My answer was truthful but I was seeing this position more as a bridge to what I really hope to do.

    Now, three weeks in, I’m feeling a bit antsy already. I’m trying to tell myself to be patient and that things will happen and to just give it time. This is my first job in several years, so I really need to find a way to be patient and stick with it. What’s making it worse is that I’m already approaching my mid-40s, so I don’t have as long or exciting a road ahead as a younger person might. I let time get away from me, and I really regret that.

    1. MissGirl*

      Three weeks is no time at all. It’s the most boring time of the job as you’re getting set up, meeting people, learning the ropes. It will take time to start getting more ownership of projects, more of the big picture and less of the nuts and bolts. The first 90 days are about earning trust, learning ropes, and building a long-term foundation. At my last job, it took three weeks to just get my own computer.

    2. MillersSpring*

      Depending on the work, I’d say “long-term” is a minimum of two years in the role, but four years is getting closer to “long-term.”

  231. Amber*

    I’m located in the US, I have an upcoming job interview for a possible position overseas, it looks like the position would either be located in Prague or Cyprus and the job would require a lot of travel around Europe. Other than being stationed in Korea for a year when I was in the army, I’ve never really lived overseas or had a job that requires (possibly up to 50%) travel. If I move, it would be just me and my cat.

    What sort of questions should I ask during the interviews about living in those countries or a job with lots of travel? Or if any of you have lived there or can offer any advice in general about this situation it would be appreciated. Thanks!

    1. Imaginary Number*

      I would definitely ask if they give any sort of assistance locating housing. Renting in Europe can be very different from the U.S. When I lived in Germany (hello fellow Army person traveling OCONUS with a cat) there was usually a specific list of landlords who were used to renting to Americans because most landlords there were used to five-year leases or more.

      Sorry I don’t have much more advice than that. Driving in Prague was scary the first time I did it. Not used to driving in the same lane as streetcars.

  232. Exhausted*

    So it’s Saturday but I worked from morning til late last night and would love some help in navigating yet another job hunt. In my first position out of school, I was a very high performer. I left because my boss really wanted to promote me but wasn’t able to. Since then I’ve had two jobs. The first, I dealt with a micromanager who shattered my confidence (I write an email to a colleague and she send me a follow-up correcting everything I’d written.) The company didn’t have a great reputation and people often left quickly after getting burned out. I got a new job after 8 months and moved to a new city. My new company is a startup that really pushed that the salary was lower but they compensated with great benefits. They were expanding and growing. I’ve been here for five months. It started out okay but one of my colleagues left and added to my workload, including cleaning up after her. Two more of my colleagues have left, they’ve shut down an office, just announced that they’re cutting our benefits, and the expectation is that I work as much as is needed to get things done so I’ve been working nearly round the clock to make sure no clients feel ignored (I’m promised as their dedicated manager–and in reality, I’m juggling about 15 clients). They also constantly oversell the product and so I deal with clients that have been sold something that’s not actually possible and I have to give them the reality. Which puts me in the role of constantly saying “no” to increasingly irritated clients. And now, with cutting benefits, adding workload from colleagues who have left, they’re saying we all need to tighten our belts to get through this. When I joined I wasn’t offered stock options and while I like the mission behind the organization, I’m not paid enough to afford a lifestyle where all I do is work. All that said, I’d really like to leave. But I’m nervous about explaining an 8 month job and then a 5 month job. Particularly because my 8 month job didn’t leave me with options for great references. There’s a part of me that fears it’s me but when I write everything out, it doesn’t sound like it is. I’m just so exhausted of feeling overwhelmed with work. I did raise the workload concern to my boss, who told me that if I was doing everything right, this wouldn’t be a problem. My issue with that response is that there’s no max number of clients which means that I have to handle as many clients as they bring in. How do I explain why I’m leaving in interviews that won’t make it sound like I’m lazy or the problem.

    1. SophieChotek*

      You have my sympathy in this situation. I know you shouldn’t bash your former employer, etc., but is there anyway to talk about not being given the resources you needed to adequately perform your job or something like that? (That way it’s not like “they gave me too much to do” and the potential employer thinks “lazy!”)…

  233. A Question*

    I have a job as helping the company paid its bills. Recently I help made payments to a vendor and the documents have unit head approvals and all. But lately while thinking back, I have a little feeling that the documents are a bit less organized than the bills I normally get. I kind of think I need to ask my manager about these bills. But I have already made a few payments to it already. Thus, I feel a bit anxious. I am not really sure how to approach this. Maybe I can ask if it is normal for these bills to be organized thsi way?

    1. SophieChotek*

      I am not sure I understand your question.

      Are you feelling like the vendor is submitting bills for work/products they did not deliver? Are you suspecting they are padding the bills or something like that?

      Or do you mean the vendor(s) is/are just disorganized in their own paperwork and submitting their bills and you wish they would be more with it?

      1. A Question*

        I am wondering if the slight disorgnaization of the documents might be a sign that that unit head is not too careful with evaluating whehter they should pay the vendor or not. We noramlly have no problem with the unit head and I do not have strong proof that he might not be careful. Just after paying the vendor a few times, did I have this little feeling.

  234. Imaginary Number*

    I’m a veteran and my company is very big on hiring vets and vet outreach. I was contacted third-hand (by why of a public affairs person at my company who deals with veteran outreach) for an “informational interview” by someone going through a VA job skills program and has a lot of interest in the area I’m currently working in. The original response from the public affairs guy was similar to what I’ve seen AAM say about informational interviews: “Send us your specific questions and I’ll help track down the answers from the right person.” However, the VA is apparently requiring that these vets conduct two, thirty-minute “informational interviews” with a company in order to graduate the program. That’s how it ended up getting passed off to me. I don’t mind taking 30 minutes to help out a vet. My issue is with the VA requiring these guys to force the whole “informational interview” thing down company’s throats. I feel like they’re doing them a disservice. Any thoughts?

  235. Mimmy*

    What the…

    I just got my first pay check in the mail, and if my calculations are right, I think I got royally short-changed! My offer letter says “I am pleased to make you a formal offer of employment with the Commission for Teapot Users as a temporary aide, and have requested your hourly salary be set at $xx.xx…”. However, I think they are paying me at roughly 60% of what the letter says.

    Am I right to be upset? The wording on the letter is weird and I probably should’ve questioned it. However, I also figured that if there was going to be much difference in the stated rate, that I would be notified.

    I am absolutely going to mention this to my supervisor on Monday, although she’ll probably refer me to HR, which is at a different site than where I work.

    Advice on this is greatly appreciated.

      1. Mimmy*

        Yes I am.

        I’m basing all of my calculations on gross pay, and there’s a big discrepancy even with that. I haven’t figured out yet what my take home should be based on taxes and other deductions, but I think it’s still a difference of several hundred dollars.

        1. fposte*

          Ouch. Pay period is the only other thing I can think of, then. Does your stub or equivalent state number of hours worked?

          1. Mimmy*

            Does your stub or equivalent state number of hours worked?

            Yes it does. The way it works is that you fill out and submit an electronic timesheet, which auto-calculates the number of hours you worked. This is submitted every two weeks. The hours calculated matches what is on my pay stub, so I’m confident that the pay reflects two weeks.

              1. Mimmy*

                Thanks. Something tells me that either I miscalculated something, or this is something I should’ve noticed much sooner.

                Alison: I know the Open Threads cover Friday and Saturday – is it okay to add an update to this thread on Monday?

            2. Connie-Lynne*

              Does your stub note your hourly rate, and your base calculation, and then deductions? It should be noting all of that so you can tell immediately whether you’re being paid the correct base rate.

              Definitely when I was hourly, and even in some salaried roles, my stub showed my base hourly rate (when I was salaried it would just always show 40 hours).

    2. fposte*

      Echoing Alison. Do you remember what you put down for withholding, and do you have a physical or virtual paycheck that itemizes the deductions for you? If the pre-tax number is still off (and make sure you understand what work period is covered, because that can throw you off too), then it’s worth checking with your work.

  236. Student*

    There is a particularly interesting article on a study of the effectiveness of interviewing people in the New York Times today: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/08/opinion/sunday/the-utter-uselessness-of-job-interviews.html?ref=opinion&_r=0.

    In a nutshell, in this study, people don’t usually get anything good out of interviews, and sometimes come to worse conclusions than if they didn’t interview at all. Also, it shows that lying in interviews is very effective. Also, it shows that people are confident they can get useful info from conducting an interview even when presented with evidence to the contrary.

    1. fposte*

      I don’t think what he’s saying extrapolates that broadly, though. I didn’t find it surprising that the 50 students nearest to admissions fared equally well when admitted, for instance, and I also don’t know if that’s a finding that will always translate to a job interview.

      I am willing to believe there could be a study that proves job interviewing is pointless and that people who believe they’re the exceptions are deluding themselves–it really isn’t scientific, that’s for sure–but this wasn’t it.

    2. CAA*

      There’s a total failure of headline writing on that article. The headline refers to job interviews, but the article is about school admissions and students guessing other student’s GPAs. I am not convinced that the fact that college students with no training or practice in interviewing are unable to predict another student’s GPA somehow automatically implies that a professional with many years of experience at interviewing and hiring other professionals will fail at the same rate.

  237. cc*

    I am always the first person in my office every day and several people in my office regularly stroll in 2.5-3 hours after me and then end up leaving at the same time as me. This probably happens 3/5 days a week.

    I hear them complaining about how it was so hard to wake up. They all live 5-15 minutes from work. I spend 3-4 hours a day in total commuting to work and wake up probably 4 hours before they do. Every morning when I see them come in I get annoyed and am put in a bad mood.

    Should I just start coming in late too? Say something? There is a lot of favoritism in the office and this group of people are the “favorites”. We are all peers and all exempt so it is not like I have to be in at a specified time and log my hours. We do have a general rule about being here during core hours and that we can adjust our hours around that. They definitely don’t follow it.

    1. Dienna Howard*

      Keep going to work on time, cc. I realize it’s easy to get annoyed at others getting away with breaking the rules, but don’t stoop to their level.

  238. Connie-Lynne*

    I start my new job on Monday. It’ll be the first time in 18 years that I’ve started a new role without my husband there to support me, and of course I’m still grieving his sudden death. It’s also the first time I’ve had the “Director” title.

    My new boss, and many of my colleagues, know what I’m going through. My mom’s coming up to help me get through the first few days.

    Still, I think this is going to be really very hard.

    1. Borne*

      I’m sorry to hear about your terrible loss.
      Pray that Monday will be a great start of your new job.

    2. fposte*

      I think you’re right, Connie-Lynne, and it’s not fair. I hope the job goes splendidly and gives you some joy.

  239. Bored Fed*

    Tips for transitioning from Federal HR to private sector –

    Have been working in Federal HR for several years now, primarily in Management-Employee Relations (discipline/performance management). I would be interested in gaining knowledge/skills to be able to pursue private sector positions, more of a generalist nature. Any tips for going about this?

    I have an MA in management already, but have looked into a couple programs, such as eCornell’s HR Management and SFUs HR Management certificates, which would at least give some knowledge in the various areas, but don’t know whether they would actually be worthwhile.

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