open thread – May 12-13, 2017

by Alison Green on May 12, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. GigglyPuff*

    Been waiting all week for this!
    Questions, advice, tips are sought.
    I made it to the second round of interviews for a position at a university (yay!). My problem is, none of my previous jobs have required second interviews (I know). So I’m not really sure what to expect. More of the same regular interview questions, more in-depth, learning more about my job position expertise, etc?

    It’s also one of those dinner the night before, and all day interviews, meet everyone. Any advice on how to handle that is greatly appreciated. Also I am not a suit person, would high end professional shirt/sweater be okay for the dinner?

    Lastly it also includes a presentation I have to give on a project or program I’ve contributed to. I have a project selected, one I’m actually currently working on (no issues with my current job sharing it). Are there specific things they’re usually looking for in presentations? Obviously that I know the subject matter and can speak clearly on it, but beyond that…??

    So any help, advice, or tips on how to navigate this would be awesome. And after this is over I’ll go gladly curl into a ball under the covers from all the forced interaction.

    1. Lucy Richardson*

      What sort of position? The answers will be very different for a faculty job vs non-faculty, and then business school vs liberal arts or budget office vs housing department.

      1. Doink*

        Agreed- a lot will also depend a lot on the culture of the specific department or school you’re joining (for example, the business school is going to be much more professional and conservative expectations than say, the physics department).

        That said, as a librarian at a university I’ve had to go through the day-long interview + presentation + dinner deal. I’ve had interviews were dinner was the day before, as well as same day. For dinner before I’d dress one or two steps down from interview but still nicer than the average day at work; instead of a suit, I’d wear nice slacks/skirt and a dressy top + cardigan or casual blazer, for instance. (I’m not quite sure of the equivalent for male fashion, though). Same day I’d just leave on my interview attire.

        For the presentation, I’d suggest finding some way to tie in the job you’re interviewing for. How could you use the project to demonstrate that you’re a good fit for the position? Did you learn or improve skills that would be of benefit for the duties you’d be responsible for? Is there a similar or related project/program/initiative/committee that you’d be interested in helping with? It doesn’t (and probably shouldn’t) be the main message, but show that you at least considered how this applies to them. At least in libraries, a lot of people not involved in the hiring committee or conducting interviews will attend and they will be asked for feedback to help with the decision.

        Make use of any breaks you’re given, but don’t be afraid to ask for more, either. Take one or two extra minutes in the bathroom if you need time to de-stress/recharge, explore campus or the buildings you’ll work in if you have time, and bring snacks and water! If you have the chance to talk with random students, faculty, or staff, take it! Do everything you can to sample campus culture.

        1. GigglyPuff*

          Thanks! I didn’t want to give too much away, but it is a library staff position. Unfortunately the one project I’ve worked on that would probably relate best to their holdings, is one of the most boring. There’s no way I could fill enough time and it was a few years ago, so I don’t have access to any procedure info either. So I’m trying to pick one that deals with setting up workflows and procedures from scratch (which was implied what would be needed in the position), and subtly tie it to that. It is also a project, while different, is something most institutions have in their holdings, so it’s not too obscure to not be relatable. (Sorry I’m just really try not to give too many details, I’d love to tell y’all exactly what it is, I’d love specific advice. My manager said we could talk about it, but it’s been extremely busy this week and they can’t talk until next week, and I really need to do the bulk of the presentation this weekend to start practicing. I just hope I’m picking wisely!)

          1. Doink*

            Yay for libraries! I suspected that might be the case since there’s so many of us here. :)
            It’s obvious that you’ve put thought into choosing your topic to be sure it’s relevant, so sounds like you’re in a good position. Best of luck!

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      If you are doing the all day interview/dinner combo, I would strongly suggest a suit or something that looks suit-ish. You don’t usually do that interview schedule for lower level positions, so I’d expect formal business attire. Look for pieces instead of a suit, that way if you get hot or the weather change you could switch from a shell to a blouse for dinner and have something to put on.

      I’d imagine in your all day you’ll be meeting colleagues, direct reports, etc. They’ll probably ask their own questions about collaboration, management style, etc.

      Include lessons learned on your presentation. We should have considered X or included stakeholder Y and what you learned from that.

      2. GigglyPuff*

        Thanks, I just wasn’t sure if the dinner before would be considered pulling out the full interview clothes or just really professional.
        Ugh, I am really not looking forward to going through my closet this weekend trying to find stuff. No idea if my suit jacket even fits right anymore.
        Thank you for the advice. The project I did pick to discuss, while still current did get to a standardized point and that took a few turns, so that’s why I picked it, because it lets me discuss our procedures, policies, and collaboration with another department. Which I figured would help fill up my presentation time at least. ;)

        1. DaLizzy*

          Maybe just buy new stuff to make sure you’re comfortable and can be your best without fussing with ill fitting clothes…

        2. College Career Counselor*

          The dinner is definitely part of the interview, and if my past interview experience is any indication, you will get a mix of conversation and questions, regardless of what they say about the purpose of the dinner. “Relax, we just want to talk to you and have a nice meal!”

          Sure, but they’re also still interviewing/evaluating you. I’d consider it a business dinner and dress formally, as you would for an interview.

          1. akshay*

            When the matter comes to an interview I become nervous and my confidence level does not stand up to the mark. Any advice?

        3. kbeers0su*

          As someone who has done a lot of hiring at a university on the non-academic side of the house, if that’s where your position is, I would NOT wear a suit/business dress for dinner. Even for Director-level candidates, we typically expect nice slacks and a button-down as the dressiest thing we would see. Maybe a sport coat/blazer if it’s cooler weather. I’ve had plenty of professional candidates (non-Director level) wear jeans, nice shoes, and a nice button-down/top and be totally ok.

          Dinner is not part of the formal interview and is a great time to get to know more about the culture of the department/school/area (if you’re relocating). It’s also how we tend to learn more about a candidate’s personality. I would not try to ask any interview/job questions that night. But your conversation may raise some questions to follow up on the next day, especially if you don’t get those answers during the course of the interview.

          As for what to expect on the day of the interview, it will likely be different cross-sections of folks you’d work with. Again, if this is on the non-academic side of the house, you can expect students if you have a role that will interact with that population (likely student leaders or student employees), a group of your peers/colleagues from within the same department, a group of your peers/colleagues from other departments whom you will work with in this role, some time with your supervisor, some time with anyone you may supervise (which may be the same as another group listed), and then depending on the nature of your role, perhaps higher-ups (dean/AVP).

          1. Bibliovore*

            Depends on where. For most academic appointments, women can where a dress or trousers, a shell and an unstructured jacket or structured sweater. Where comfortable shoes. Study their website. Read the school newspaper (sometimes it is available on line) How does the library communicate with students? Is there Facebook or twitter account? Are there local issues that can be brought up in your talk? Don’t get sucked into controversy. Practice your talk. Bring a granola bar or something to keep your blood sugar even. Remember, every minute of this experience is part of the interview. If you are packing light- dark trousers or dress or skirt and top, one jacket, and a colorful scarf if the dinner is the night before.

    3. Jan Levinson*

      Do you have a suit that you *could* wear, even if you’re “not a suit person”? (to be clear, I understand, as I’d also always rather dress in something comfortable!) However, based on the background information you’ve given (formal dinner, giving a presentation) I would recommend wearing a suit!

    4. Pwyll*

      University hiring is so quirky, and I don’t have much experience there, but if it’s helpful here are some thoughts from a corporate perspective:

      Second interviews I participate in are usually either 1) a chance to really dig into your expertise, interests and goals for this position and/or 2) a chance for people who were not involved in the first interview to have a say. Because team dynamics are important to me, I usually use second interviews to have peers (of the candidate) interview to ensure they’d mesh with team culture. So, it’d be pretty much like your first round of interviews with a new person. If you’re having a second interview with someone you have already interviewed with, however, I would expect a more in-depth line of questioning as to your skills and previous project experience.

      Unless you receive specific guidance otherwise, I would wear to the dinner an outfit you would wear to an interview, but not the same outfit you’ll be wearing the next day. I’m no expert on women’s clothing, but I wouldn’t raise eyebrows at the same blazer with different blouse/sweater combinations, but I wouldn’t dress down for the dinner unless they’ve told you it’s less formal. Good luck!

      1. Karen D*

        I would not dress down either. I’m assuming like other posters, GigglyPuff, that you’re a woman; apologies if you are not.

        Women have an advantage in that lots of business-friendly attire is really very comfortable. (Ponte knit is one of my favorites – it can look very structured and polished.) And you don’t have to spend a ton; one of my go-to professional dresses came from Target!

        But I would stick to professional business attire for any activity that’s part of the interview, unless specifically told otherwise (and in that case, follow what they tell you as closely as possible). The most casual I would go would be maybe a twinset, but not a twinset in a light/clingy material.

    5. MissDisplaced*

      It’s a bit different for university positions, so I’m mainly giving my experience from public sector jobs.
      In my experience, second rounds generally mean you are a STRONG candidate, but the person hiring wants to introduce you to THEIR manager + others on the team who may not have been involved in the interview process previously (and that could be low to high and everything in-between). Often at this stage, they might be trying to make up their minds between 2-3 candidates, and it sounds like the presentation is a big part of that here. You will have to be your most polished and engaging for that, and expect questions. My guess is they want to see your thought process as well as your presentation/public speaking skills.
      I would wear a suit, but as others said, you could probably switch jacket for a softer sweater or something for dinner.
      Sounds like a long day! Best of luck!

    6. DaLizzy*

      How exciting! Can I just send you good vibes and wish you best of luck – I don’t have any experience to share here but that would be a bit much for me :)

      Well have fun with it and remember you and interviewing them too!

    7. Honeybee*

      My current job was also one of those “dinner the night before then all day interviews” positions. Here is my advice:

      -At my work, we tell interviewees that the dinner is just a chance to get to know them better, put them at ease and let them know a familiar face for the next day, as well as to answer any questions they may have about the process. I would say that’s generally true – but I would also say it’s totally a part of the evaluation process even if they say it isn’t. Humans aren’t able to shake memories very well, so if you put them off at the dinner even if you are perfectly polished the next day they’re going to be put off. (Not that you would!)
      -The questions are generally more in-depth, and in some cases each interviewer has a specific task or skill they want to ask you about. At my job, for example, the first interview might be about analysis skills; the second one about communication and dealing with tough situations; the third about domain knowledge; etc. Academic interviews aren’t always so well-coordinated, so sometimes each person just asks you what they want and you might get a lot of repetition.
      -Whenever offered a bathroom break, take it. If you need a breather, ask to go to the bathroom. That’ll give you at least 5-10 minutes to breathe and relax yourself. I think I took a little break every other interview.
      -I know I get migraines during long interviews so I took a pre-emptive Excedrin. Bring any kind of meds you may need, including a little thing of Advil. Also bring a water bottle – they may give you water but they’ll often forget to replenish it for you.

      When interviewers offered me the opportunity to ask questions, I asked most of the questions to multiple interviewers. I felt like that gave me different perspectives on the same question, and I wanted to see where people converged and where they differed.

    8. gladfe*

      It depends on what the position is, but most jobs at a university involve talking to a lot of different audiences. These interview presentations are often open to the public. It’s pretty common for the audience to include the hiring committee; a couple other people who are experts at what you’re doing; a few people from the same department who are interested in who gets hired but don’t know anything about the details of the job; a couple mildly interested students, who were often bribed with food to be there; and a few other people who don’t care about this position at all but are interested in a similar career track for themselves and wanting to see what an interview presentation is like. I’ve never been on the hiring committee for any non-entry-level role, but what I’ve heard is that they’re as much interested in how well you can communicate with all those groups as they are in the content of your presentation.
      For the social part, a lot of the people you’re dealing will be almost as uncomfortable with the forced interaction as you. Be on your best interview behavior, but don’t stress out that any awkwardness from other people is part of some tricky interview strategy. Interview mind games are super rare, and weird academics are super common, so it doesn’t make sense to overthink that stuff.

      1. gladfe*

        Wait, there’s an exception to what I just said: breakfast! I don’t know if it counts as a deliberate mind game, but I’ve heard stories of candidates who tanked their interviews by being rude to a secretary first thing in the morning. If you need caffeine to function, get up early and have it before you meet anybody, even if they’re taking you to get coffee anyway. And always treat all support staff (at least) as well as you’d treat any interviewer. Their feedback is taken very, very seriously by every department I’ve been a part of.

        1. Ghost Town*

          The support staff piece – cannot state this strongly enough. Their feedback is incredibly important and should you get the job, you’ll be working with them on countless things and in countless ways. No need to start off on their bad side.

    9. VelociraptorAttack*

      With your presentation I would very highly recommend doing a but of research on the university and tying that in. Obviously this could vary depending on the position and school but for instance, I work at a university and attended a presentation from a candidate where they mentioned greek life as a group to reach out to… my institution does not have greek life so it kind of hit a disconnect for a lot of us.

    11. Product person*

      Oh! I think I have advice that applies across the board (regardless of the position you’re taking) about one thing you asked:

      “Lastly it also includes a presentation I have to give on a project or program I’ve contributed to. I have a project selected, one I’m actually currently working on (no issues with my current job sharing it). Are there specific things they’re usually looking for in presentations? Obviously that I know the subject matter and can speak clearly on it, but beyond that…??”

      Make sure during the presentation that, in addition to describing the project or program’s overall objectives and results, you make it clear what was your individual contribution to the project. I’ve seen a lot of candidates with potential get “blackballed” by people who watched their presentations because it was very unclear (even when directly asked) what was their specific individual contribution to the project. It’s perfectly fine to indicate that you worked on X and Y under the supervision of someone else, only did ABC on your own, and never touched Z. That goes much better than trying to conceal the reality or make it look like you did most of the work (people can see through that, and being honest ends up counting on your favor, as it shows you have confidence in your skills and aren’t afraid to acknowledge the limitations of your knowledge and/or involvement in certain aspects of the work).

      Good luck!

      1. Wheezy Weasel*

        +1 on this. You could make a graphic in the presentation that represents the different stakeholders in the project and highlight yourself with color or indicators, plus have a few bullets about the project manager, subject matter experts roles, and other stakeholders. I’ve contributed to a lot of projects as a subject matter expert but felt comfortable explaining the high level project objectives in a presentation. As Product Person said, as long as you indicate how you participated.

        I also really like to hear about ways a project could have been improved or gone a different direction. For instance, in closing you could say ‘If funding materialized, we could expand this to Y and Z departments’. It demonstrates that you’re able to have a higher level vision for the project outcomes.

        1. Product person*

          Good point, Wheezy Weasel, about adding suggestions about how the project could have been improved! Definitely shows initiative and can make you stand out from the pack.

        2. GigglyPuff*

          Good points y’all. I think if I had a little less experience this would’ve been invaluable advice and made me feel way more comfortable, but luckily the project I selected, I’m the point person for my department.
          There is one part of the project I’m trying to figure out how to phrase: steps I wrote up, followed our policies, would’ve made everything more uniform, but they were shot down by the other dept in the fear that they’d have taken too long. So I’m trying to find the nice balance of, there are compromises for quicker results vs. the other dept was wrong and had no idea what I was talking about no matter how many times it was explained and was probably scared of change.

    12. dear liza dear liza*

      For dinner and any other social times during the interview, get ready to make small talk. Ask people questions. As an interviewer, one of my least favorite things is having to introduce all topics and ask all the questions, while the candidate does not reciprocate. Stay away from things like politics, religion, and kids; ask people about their pets and upcoming or past vacations, get ready to talk a bit about your favorite hobbies. For library positions, you can’t go wrong asking people if they’ve read any good books lately, and be ready to talk about some you’ve read. Good luck!

      1. Sutemi*

        Assuming you are interviewing from out of town, questions about activities in the community and neighborhoods to live in may also be good topics to show interest in their lives as well as moving.

    13. Casuan*

      this is a bit off from the usual interview advice…
      During any given meal, each person- regardless of position or class- will, at least once, do something they wish no one else has seen.

      Knowing this has helped me through many meals & for me, “at least once” is usually an understatement.

      GigglyPuff, congratulations & good luck!!

    14. AnotherLibrarian*

      Day long interviews are probably the most exhausting thing ever. Eat a good breakfast and wear comfortable shoes. You will be walking around A LOT.

      For the presentation, I would assume no one actually read the prompt even if it was sent out and be prepared to repeat it as needed. Remember that there will be librarians and non-librarians in the audience. We once had a canidate who did a whole presentation on the idea of “flipping the classroom” and never actually defined what a that term meant.

      Ask questions. Please please ask questions. Your questions are going to show if you are engaged or not and when I hear a good question, I always think, “Dang, that was a good question.”

      Treat everyone you interact with as though they could make or break your chances. Remember, secretaries, student assistants and non-library folks have a huge impact on your chances. They will be asked and they will be honest.

      Oh, and I wouldn’t wear a suit to the dinner. I would wear something a step up from your normal work clothes, but a step down from a suit. I think when I did one, I wore a cardigan over a blouse and a skirt with tights and boots. It was the midwest in the dead of winter, so I was trying to be warm.

      Also, never insult the state you are in. We had a canidate complain a lot about the state our school is in and we were all offended. Just a warning of what not to do.

    15. GigglyPuff*

      Thank you everyone for the advice! It’s really helped and made me feel better about the whole thing, still probably going to be a giant nervous wreck, but now that I know it’s probably what I thought it would be like, will help me calm down.
      I just really want this job (at this point). It’s been a long time since I’d seen a job description at my level that I really felt confident saying “I could totally do that”. That would be a good challenge, but not an out and out reach of “I’ve never even been exposed to those job responsibilities before, eek”. So I’m really excited, but also trying to calm myself and I think going in with some idea of what to expect is really helping. So thank you!!!

  2. AMD*

    TLDR first: My friend recommended I interview for what sounds like a scammy company who now wants me to invest time in an in-person interview. Should I tell the friend how scammy it is, tell him I just can’t make it work, or just ghost on any communication related to this?

    Long version: I graduated college with a friend who graduated at 18, who was always super intelligent but a little socially out of sync. We’ve remained in touch since and have a fairly good relationship.

    He went to law school following college, and he’s now doing a lot of part time/freelance legal work for several different companies, trying to build a network and hopefully land a permanent position. On a phone conversation where I was updating him about my life (baby on the way! dropping from full time to super-part time after baby arrives!) he said “Hey, I am actually working with a company that is recruiting in your area for part time online work! My contact is always looking for good people, and it would give you an additional revenue stream in preparing for the baby!” I asked what the work was and he gave a vague answer – helping major companies like Home Depot, and Nike with increasing online revenue and customer communication.

    (I’m a pharmacist. I have no experience in online marketing and communications – but I’m fairly computer- and internet-savvy so I thought I’d just talk and see what the position was and be able to have no investment if it wasn’t a good fit.)

    We set up a phone interview with his connection, “Ramón.”

    Ramón began the interview with a pitch for the company (The DTS Group? But he didn’t mention the company name on the phone, I had to ask my friend for it later.) Ramón said that his company helps improve revenue streams (this phrase came up a lot) for lots of companies in 101 countries, including Nike, Home and Office Depot, Apple, Microsoft, Under Armor, and more, and they operate in all 50 states but are recruiting for team members in my area now.

    He asked me:
    “[Friend] mentioned you’re expecting, when are you due? Are you planning on continuing to work full time at your regular job or be a stay-at-home mom?”
    “AMD, do you and your husband have any major financial goals right now?”
    “A lot of our team members make $60-70k in addition to their regular jobs, does that sound like something you’d like to do, AMD?”
    “Does your husband support you in your adding revenue streams? Would he be able to come to your in-person interview so that we can explain our process to both of you together?

    And then tried to close the conversation with, “Great, when are you available to meet in-person?”

    I was trying to behave myself because my friend had recommended me and I don’t want to make him look bad, but I ended up having to talk over Ramón to ask, “What exactly would this position entail? What kind of job is it?”

    “Oh, AMD, what you have to understand is, we aren’t hiring for a job, we are hiring for candidates for our team. We have lots of different kinds of people on our teams, including pharmacists like yourself – one pharmacist even was able to leave her full-time pharmacy job and entirely replace that revenue stream by working with us.”

    “OK,” I said, “so the pharmacists on your team, what do they do? What does a workday look like for them?”

    “Well, it varies widely from person to person, our team does a lot of different things, like I’m sure the pharmacist I mentioned was communicating with clients, helping them improve revenue streams, maybe doing some training – but I really can’t tell you any more over the phone because our processes are proprietary. I can only talk to you about our proprietary process in person, which is why I want to set up an in-person interview.”

    I let him end the conversation at that point with a promise to contact me to try to set up an in-person meeting.

    Obviously, I’m not going to do this meeting. I don’t have a finger on what exactly kind of scam this is, but I am sure that no legitimate company would have so many red flags.

    But now I have my friend who personally recommended me to Ramón and is apparently doing some kind of actual paying work for him. I don’t want to hurt his reputation. But I’m also fairly offended by the questions that Ramón asked, and a little concerned that my friend doesn’t recognize that this is some kind of scheme and not a valid company. I’m wondering if my friend is going to get in trouble through involvement with them, or continue recommending people he cares about to interview with them.

    Should I:

    1) Call/text friend: “Hey, this interview was really offensive and concerning to me because of XYZ and it sounds like a MLM/pyramid scam. I don’t want to hurt your reputation as you’re trying to network, but I’m going to drop out of the process. Be careful when dealing with Ramón, because this sounds like a bad company to be involved with…”
    2) Call/text friend: “Hey, on more consideration I don’t think I’m going to continue in this process, but thanks for the recommendation! Good luck!”
    3) Do not contact friend about this “interview” etc., and just be unfortunately unavailable to ever, ever meet with Ramón if they contact me again.
    4) Arrange the interview, spend the hour commute each way into the city and listen to the sales pitch, and laugh in Ramón’s face at the end.
    5) Something else?

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Do not pass go, do not collect $200. This is 100% a scam.

      From your options listed, I’d go with #2 initially, but if your friend probes would I suggest bringing up the stuff in #1.

      2. Honeybee*

        This is my answer as well! You don’t need to go into detail, but if your friend asks for it might as well give them the truth.

    2. NoMoreMrFixit*

      Go with option 1. Run away and make sure your friend knows why. This smells worse than a dead fish. Anybody that evasive has to be doing something questionable if not illegal.

    4. Amy*

      If this is a close friend and you think he sincerely might not know what’s going on, go with option #1. If you’re not that close, or you think he probably knows what’s up and is doing it anyways, then use option #3. I don’t think you need to somehow notify your friend that you won’t be pursuing this, unless he asks, at which point #2 is always available.

    5. Nea*

      I’d go for the direct approach, preferably by voice. “Friend? So I got called by Ramone and there enough red flags here for a parade. What EXACTLY are you doing for them? More than that – have they paid you yet? Because this sounds so much like a scam that I wouldn’t be surprised that they ghost on you on payday.”

      1. Blue*

        There’s no payday. This group wants “entrepreneurs” to pay them for their system and support (a pyramid or MLM scheme) — and it won’t be a small chunk of change.

        1. Anna*

          I think the assumption is that AMD’s friend, who does freelance legal work, is doing freelance legal work for whatever this “company” is and so AMD would be approaching it from that perspective rather than the more worrisome perspective of AMD’s friend being taken by the pyramid scheme and already paying into the BS and then trying to get AMD on board with it, too.

    6. Lucy Richardson*

      I’d go with some version of 1 & 2, stating the weirdness without drawing any conclusions. “He wouldn’t tell me what the job duties are, which is very strange. And, they wanted me to bring Husband to the interview; that’s bizarre. I don’t know what’s going on with this company, but that phone interview really turned me off, so I won’t be pursuing employment with them further.”

      1. Annie Moose*

        I like this approach. Talk about what the red flags were, without being like “IT’S A SCAM! IT’S A SCAM!” If your friend has invested time/money/whatever already in this company, they might respond better to this approach.

    7. Alice*

      I’d vote for option 1 — if something that straightforward hurts the friendship (and I’d be surprised if it did), then it wasn’t a good friendship to begin with.

    8. Rowan*

      From the questions asked, this sounds waaaay more like multi-level marketing (think: Amway) than an actual job. Why else talk about a “revenue stream” than a salary? Or ask if the husband would be on board?

    9. LCL*

      ‘Improve revenue streams’ is code for selling something.
      I vote for option 1 EXCEPT leave out the word offensive. Offensive is nonspecific and could apply to anything. And really, why should your friend care if the interview was offensive? The problem is all the scam techniques being used by the interviewer. Not giving you a straight answer on what the job involves is reason enough to say no.

      1. Other Duties as Assigned*

        Also watch out for another code phrase: “You have the ability to manage your own income!”

      2. Honeybee*

        If I had recommended a friend to a job, connected her with a contact, and she told me that the interview ended up being “offensive,” I would absolutely care. The scam techniques are the main problem but the weird invasive nature of the interviewer is a (related) problem as well.

        1. LCL*

          I wouldn’t care about the offensive aspect because it is enough of a challenge managing my own interactions with people. And once you get one step removed, people may irritate and offend and you won’t really know the true reason. If someone told me someone I referred them to is offensive that is mildly interesting, but I would see it as mostly irrelevant. If I was good friends with them, I might ask them what the other person did wrong.

    10. kittymommy*

      Yeah, I would do something between 1 & 2. Maybe more like 2 in the beginning and sprinkle it with vague reference to your concerns. If he seems receptive go ahead with the more concrete problems with the company.

    12. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’m wondering why you’re thinking of treating your friend so delicately! Why not just tell him the truth? (And frankly, given the wording your friend used with you, he’s fully bought into the MLM shadiness that’s going on, and it would be good to be direct with him.)

      1. Gandalf the Nude*

        Actually, my understanding is that kind of bluntness doesn’t usually work on folks who’ve bought into MLMs. It tends to cause them to double-down. That’s fine if OP just doesn’t want to be bothered by the MLM, but if she wants to help her friend, it usually takes a more nuanced approach.

          1. WhirlwindMonk*

            What purpose does “calling out the BS” serve if it doesn’t help the friend? If you don’t care about helping the friend, just bow out without explanation. If you care about helping the friend, seek the appropriate approach, whatever that is.

              1. Anna*

                I agree. There’s no reason to be so cautious with the friend, especially since bowing out and giving no explanation could lead to offense. Just be honest about it.

              2. Ask a Manager* Post author

                I don’t mean that last sentence in a snotty way, by the way! (I realized too late that it might sound that way.) I genuinely place a high premium on that, probably more than is normal.)

                1. Gandalf the Nude*

                  I’ve been accused of standing on principle to my own detriment, so I’m with you there. It’s just, for me, acting on principle necessarily means trying to help the other person. That goes double for someone who’s close enough to warrant a catch-up phone call, though that’s my own personal threshold.

      2. Thinking Outside the Boss*

        I was going to say #1 with more bite: “Hey, WTF!! You tried to set me up with a company scamming people and you gave them personal information about me. What’s up with that?!?”

    13. General Ginger*

      I vote 1. If your friend doesn’t know that this is a scam, he should. If he knows and willingly recommended it to you anyway, that’s a red flag in and of itself.

    14. Honeybee*

      I gave my answer above – #2 with a dash of #1 – but furthermore…why would your friend reveal that you were pregnant to her “manager”? That seems weirdly insensitive of her…I know, she’s not good with social cues, but still.

      None of this makes any sense. Most companies with the most sensitive of data will still tell you the general job duties over the phone; “generating revenue streams” doesn’t mean anything (so you help other companies make money? HOW?), and “we aren’t hiring for a job, we are hiring for candidates for our team” is so nonsensical I’m baffled that someone could say that with a straight face.

      1. azvlr*

        And if the friend is not good with social cues, perhaps they were duped as well. I’m not sure how much time has passed since graduating at age 18, but he may not have the life experience to recognize this for what it is. If that may be the case, you’d be doing him a favor by being up front about it.

    15. Arjay*

      How much marketing support does a company like Nike need from random people Ramon is “hiring”? Scam.

      1. Honeybee*

        Yeah, all of those companies have large in-house marketing arms. Not that they never contract third-party marketing services/firms, but those places would simply tell you they do marketing or market research, not “generating revenue streams.”

    16. Cheese Sticks and Pretzels*

      I agree, run away and run away fast. Of course they want you to come in for a face to face because they know it is harder for people to say no when they have them trapped in a room. I got suckered into sitting through an Amway presentation of all things a few weeks ago ugh.

      I did say NO :)

    17. Thinking out loud*

      I’m wondering if you would be creating (fake) reviews for products on Amazon and similar websites?

    18. Elizabeth West*

      $60-70K for a part-time online job? That right there should tell you it’s a huge scam. There are no jobs where you can do this.

      Run, run like the wind. If you feel like you have to tell your friend anything, just say you thought it over and it’s not for you.

    19. MindOverMoneyChick*

      I actually like Option 2 with maybe a little bit of option 1 thrown in. Once people are really invested in MLM it’s really hard to make them believe it’s not a scam (my clients come to my for money advice and trust me, but I still have a hard time getting them to believe me about MLMs). So while I get that it seems like it should be unnecessary to be so careful with a friend, I kind of think once MLMs involved all bets are off. Also FWIW most of my clients fade away on MLMs over time when they don’t see the results. Mind you, I’ve never had one Telly me they now thought it was a scam. They just became less involved over time.

    20. Anon Accountant*

      Option 1 please. Your friend genuinely may not know and appreciate the heads up in how Ramon is acting.

    22. Lily in NYC*

      I think your friend is well aware that this is some type of MLM and was trying to recruit you for commission. You don’t owe him anything other than “hey, thanks for the referral but the interviewer was pushy and asked shady questions and refused to tell me anything about the work so I’m not going to continue with the process”. And it’s almost impossible to talk sense into someone when they are in the MLM get-rich-quick fog. He’ll have to figure it out by failing. Congrats on your upcoming baby!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This.

        Tell your friend what you want so he will better match you up, if he is going to help in your job search. Here’s what I would say:

        1) The employer has to identify themselves. I have to know the name of the company I am applying to, or it’s no go for me.
        2)The employer has to tell me some of the skills necessary to do the job. If they cannot list off skills, I have no way to know if it makes sense to keep talking.
        3) I am not interested in running my own business or investing my money in someone else’s business.

        Honestly, if your friend did this to you, he has probably done it to others and he is used to hearing the word NO.

    23. Casuan*

      Thank your friend for thinking of you & then tell your friend that you have no interest in the company because you don’t agree with the business model, part of which is not to give basic information over the phone & to be concerned only with how much money everyone could make. Don’t explain much more than that because your friend will have only heard “I don’t want to make qazillions of dollars” & he will be aghast at the thought that no one would want to make big money by working at home. If your friend broaches the concept again, be a broken record.
      caveat: This isn’t meant as rudeness to your friend. If you think your friend would be receptive to your reasons, then please do tell him!

      Tell Ramón that you aren’t interested & good-bye. When he presses or otherwise tries to ask you questions, refuse to engage. At all.
      “I’ve made my decision Have a good day, I’m hanging up now. Good-bye.”
      Ramón will probably forget your existence within 5 minutes, max. He wouldn’t give you the courtesy of giving context over the phone & he was willing to waste your time by not giving more specific answers to your very reasonable questions & by insisting you meet.
      Even clandestine services can give a relatively accurate description of a published job without divulging proprietary information.

      After you talk with both of these guys, vow to teach your child all that is good & how to deal with the bad. :)
      Congratulations!!

    24. AMD*

      So, I went with #1, and sent a brief text saying “Hey, I don’t know if you stayed on the call for all of that, but that was a strange interview with a lot of red flags for a pyramid scheme kind of enterprise. Thanks for recommending me, but I don’t want to be involved any further.”

      He replied that he had been on the call for the entire interview, that Ramon was a good friend and trusted professional, that as a business lawyer my friend had done months of due diligence on the company before joining the team, that Ramon was testing my openness and teachablility, and that he didn’t understand how I could drop out with no information. I replied that there were a lot of red flags but I hope he is right and wished him the best.

      I think it won’t be an issue between us as friends if neither of us pushes it further, but now I find it equally plausible that he isn’t really just very naive about this, or that he has bought into whatever this company’s mission is and is knowingly recruiting for the scheme.

      Thank you guys for the advice!!!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        So your friend KNEW Ramon did not tell you anything of substance. How else would he know that you had no information.

        Eh, tell him you don’t like guessing games and you usually do not play.

      2. The Expendable Redshirt*

        (jaw drop of amazement)

        ……….

        I….phhfft……What?

        You’ve handled this with extreme professionalism and kindness. That is all

      3. AcademiaNut*

        “didn’t understand how I could drop out with no information”

        Because you asked for information several times, and they refused to give it to you.

        I’d guess that it’s actually a combination of the two. People who are naive but regard themselves as extremely smart can be particularly vulnerable to scams like this. And because he regards himself as so smart, it’s next thing to impossible to convince him that he might be wrong, even if he’s left broke and friendless as a direct consequence.

        And he was listening in on the conversation without telling you? That’s just plain rude.

        1. Lance*

          Yeah, this is very much the sound of someone who’s been sucked into this company(?)’s scheme. Shame that you couldn’t rely on him for a job lead, but good luck with any search, and especially with the coming child!

      4. ancolie*

        and that he didn’t understand how I could drop out with no information.

        Jesus. It’s like, “uh, the fact he refused to GIVE me information is the exact reason WHY I dropped out.”

        Duh?

  3. Queen B*

    How do I get my supervisor to go on medical leave, or some sort of personal leave?

    I have an interesting situation at work, and I’m not quite sure how to handle. My supervisor (let’s call her Barb), has been ill, and had several personal family issues going on for about a month now. She has had mono for almost 3 weeks now, and comes in to work tired and groggy each morning. She usually ends up leaving anywhere from 1-3 hours early each day, or taking a 3 hour lunch break to sleep in her car because she is so tired. Her productivity has significantly decreased because of this. On top of the mono, Barb found out a month ago that she has partial kidney failure, and her kidneys are only working at 35% capacity. She has missed 5 or 6 full days of work over the past month to attend doctor’s appointments for both her mono, and her kidney issues. She has also left unexpectedly many days to go home and rest, because she feels so awful. In addition to her illnesses, she also has a lot going on at home. She is in her upper 50’s, and has two adopted toddler girls, who she took on due to her nephew (who is the biological father of the girls) having serious drug problems. A few years back, Barb’s friend agreed to help raise the girls with Barb and moved in with her, but has recently backed out, leaving Barb on her own to raise two young children. It is clear that Barb is way over her head with her declining health, and rocky situation at home.

    I work in a small office, and my coworker and I both have work that depends on Barb getting things done first. We are having trouble keeping things rolling in a timely fashion for customers, due to Barb’s absences causing her to get behind on her work. My coworker has approached Barb multiple times to suggest that she take some time off work. It is clear that she is under major stress that is causing her work performance to severely decrease, affecting our company as a whole. However, Barb refuses. She claims that there is too much work to be done, and that she cannot bear to take extended time off. From my point of view, she has already taken so much unexpected time off, and when she is here, her performance has suffered, that I would rather have her take a formal leave at this point. That way, we can formally discuss reassigning her work between my coworker and I. To be clear, it wouldn’t even be a huge burden to reassign her work – my coworker and I are both familiar enough with the work she does, and would not be overly stressed out to take on her work in her absence. The problem is that since Barb is still coming into work and trying to complete all of her tasks, my coworker and I never know when we can expect things to get done so that we can do our part, or if there will be errors that we have to fix (there have been many as of late), before we continue our work. When we offer to help Barb, she refuses, and says she is there to work. Based on her situation, I think everyone would be better off if she took some sort of leave. Would it be out line for my coworker and I to go to Big Boss and suggest that she take some time off? To give you an idea of the power dynamics, our office is so small that everyone has a close working relationship, so Big Boss is someone that we interact with every day.

    1. Katie the Fed*

      I think you can talk to Big Boss, you but you need to frame it less about Barb’s health and more on the work processes. Focus on how you’re having trouble keeping things rolling in a timely fashion for customers. Maybe suggest that it might be a good to bring on an extra person to help with things (because ultimately if Barb did take extended leave, you’d still be stuck with that work so you do need help).

      1. Queen B*

        I probably should have included this in my letter, but we actually recently added an additional team member, who will be doing a lot of the same work and my coworker and I. He just started on Monday, so he still has a lot to learn, but having him aboard should relieve some of the stresses once he gets acclimated with our system.

        1. LCL*

          Big Boss already knows. Otherwise the new person wouldn’t have been added. You can ask big boss for help with work flow, but you can’t make Barb take leave. The most you can do is let big boss know you are willing to work extra to help, for awhile.

          FWIW, I have seen employees do this when their personal life is imploding. They use the routine of work to help keep them sane. It falls to management to decide if the employee should take leave, and force them to if it is possible.

    2. A la peanut butter sandwiches*

      Yes, it would be out of line to go to Big Boss and suggest she take some time off. (And it’s kinda out of line to suggest to Barb that she needs to take some time off.) However, it’s not out of line to discuss how you are not able to complete your work in a timely manner due to delays in you getting the information you need. At that point it’s up to TPTB to determine how the workflow issue should be resolved.

    3. fposte*

      I wouldn’t. You guys are leapfrogging to what somebody should do rather than raising the problem, and that would be compounded by going over Barb’s head. She doesn’t have to take leave just because it would be easier for her co-workers. (It’s also not clear if Barb’s job would be legally protected during any leave, and she’s highly unlikely to get paid.)

      What you can do is go back to Barb and say hey, we’ve had some problems with inconsistency with workloads–is there a way we can regularize the workflow in areas A, B, and C? And we need more time with X, Y, and Z to get them proofed by the deadline.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        With two illnesses and twin toddlers she’s solely responsible for, I was thinking that Barb can’t afford to take leave!

    4. Luce21*

      Don’t go to your boss and suggest how Barb should change what she is doing. Instead, go to your boss and present the facts of the problem and ask how he would like you to handle it. Ex: With Barb coming and going due to her health issues, we never quite know when we need to step in and finish X, Y, and Z. We have the time to help cover her responsibilities while she is going through this tough time, but we need a more efficient way to delegate them in a timely manner. What do you suggest we do?

    5. MissDisplaced*

      I get what you’re saying in that it would be almost better if Barb took off 2-3 months and just got well.
      In many cases, this is a better overall situation to for a business and coworkers to cover than many constant half-days and unexpected health dramas. However, it’s really not your place to suggest or demand it, and frankly I am shocked that Big Boss has not brought up the issue with Barb by now as it sounds like she would qualify for FMLA if she truly needed it.
      But I agree that at this point all you can really do is talk to Big Boss about how he wants you to handle it when X, Y, Z needs to get done.

      1. Ashley*

        I would not go to anyone to suggest someone else take leave. As someone who worked with mono years ago, coming in late, long lunch naps, and going home early was the norm for about two months. Having kids at home and other health issues it might take longer.
        I would phrase the conversation with Barb about how you can help given all she has happening. Are there some projects you can do and she can review? Can you reasonably ask for more responsibility?
        While leave might be nice, the finicalial hit makes it often unrealistic, plus she may know she may need to down the road if the kidney issues get worse.

        1. AD*

          I would phrase the conversation with Barb about how you can help given all she has happening

          A lot of people are saying this, but from what Queen B said Barb is either not seeing the effect her performance is having on them or refuses to acknowledge it when Queen B has raised it (which she says she has several times).
          Just saying “talk to Barb” clearly isn’t enough. I agree that going straight to Big Boss may not be warranted yet, but Queen B you need to get a LOT more direct with Barb.

          1. fposte*

            If all that’s happening is people telling Barb that she needs to take leave, though, that’s not a discussion, and it’s not a good opener for one. I would try a discussion about the workload rather than a leave directive before I decided Barb wasn’t open to conversation.

    6. Jordan*

      If you and your co-worker can pick up the slack if Barb was not around, why not pick up the slack despite her being partially around? Explain that you know she is concerned about all the work that needs to be done, so you and co-worker would like to help share the burden. Barb can keep her pride about coming to work or her paycheck or whatever it is that she is getting out of coming into the office, and you and your co-worker can obtain authority to work around Barb’s issues.

      1. azvlr*

        If the work is coming to Barb’s inbox, they may not have access to it. If they work were reassigned, they would be able to take action.

    7. Old Lady*

      If she’s in her upper fifties she knows that anything that jeopardizes her employment could mean she would be out of the full time workforce for the rest of her life. Taking leave (without pay I presume?) would be a financial hardship. And to her, the odds of actually returning may seem very slim. You don’t know what it’s like for older workers.

      1. JulieBulie*

        I agree… Barb is probably afraid to go on leave. I am younger than Barb, but I’d be afraid too.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      If you guys already know how to do Barb’s job, why not have one or both of you assigned as her formal backup? If she fails to show for work, then you just do the parts that are needed today to keep the business running.

      The idea that work is held for “just in case” she is there to do it, boggles my brain. Route the work in such a manner that if she is there, she does it, otherwise someone else does it.

      My thinking is that if you present this to the boss as a work flow problem, you are waiting for her work, then you are saying what needs to be said without suggesting someone go without a paycheck. It’s up to the boss to figure out how long she is willing to roll with this situation. I have seen bosses roll for a long time. It depends on the employee sometimes.

      1. MissDisplaced*

        It seemed as though this is really the outcome what the office wanted… but Barb seemed to be rather clueless to it? Either she didn’t want to delegate or didn’t realize the impact her (unexpected) absences was having on the workflow. I got the sense the irritation was more around Barb being a bottleneck in the workflow because of the “unexpected” time off more so than Barb actually taking the time off? I also read this as though some sort of sick leave and/or vacation was available… but Barb didn’t want to take?

        There are those types of people who insist they are “fine” and will try to keep working until they drop and end up in the ER. Either this is truly through fear of taking time off (if the company culture is like that or it’s not available) or a misplaced sense the company cannot function without them for a few weeks (those types tend to never use up their paid vacation either).

        Either way, as Barb is the supervisor, it sounds like some poor planning for just such emergencies.
        Where I work we’ve had 2 people go out for chemo, one emergency and one planned. In both cases, their workload coverage was thought out and planned for, so there was little interruption and drama about how work was to proceed while they were out. They did come back, and a transition back in was also planned via them working at home for a few weeks. It can be done, but the parties have to be willing to work it out (assuming of course some type of leave is actually available).

    9. Thlayli*

      I am guessing most people will disagree, but if I was in your situation here’s what I would do.
      1 tell her that you have her back and you know she is going through a tough time. Tell her that you have no intention of trying to get her fired or forced to take unpaid leave and you just want to do everything you can to keep the work going without putting undue pressure on her.
      2 tell barb that you are going to start taking doing her work on the days she is off or goes home early, and that You will hand over to her each day she comes in and she should hand over back to you when she leaves in case she is not in the next day. If she protests again tell her that the work is not being done and it has to be done, and if she refuses to let you take it over then you will have no choice but to go to your manager

      It seems like your priority is to keep the work going and it doesn’t really affect you massively whether barb is in or out so long as the work is getting done.

      Mono has about a 3 month period as i recall. I had it in college and I used to come in about noon, go home at 4 and sleep through till the next morning. It really is that tiring, but it will go away. Toddlers also learn to sleep through the night eventually so that aspect of the tiredness will go away too. So I would see this as helping out someone in need for a few months until they are able to take on more of the load.

      If she by some miracle could get fully paid time off for 3 months then by all means tell her to take sick leave and to keep the childcare and sleep during the day. But if she would have to take unpaid leave then she will be penniless with no childcare and stick at home trying to look after 2 toddlers with severe illnesses. I don’t think anyone would cope with that very well so you will not be doing her any favours by suggesting that to her.

    10. This Daydreamer*

      How close are you? It sounds like someone needs to sit down with her and ask her if her job is worth dying for. Since she’s your supervisor, that may have to be a conversation she has with her doctor.

      If you and your coworker can start taking over her job when she’s not there, that might make her feel less like she HAS to work.

  4. WellRed*

    Related to yesterday’s letter, what do folks think about companies booking Air BnBs rather than hotel rooms? I’d prefer not to have to share living space with coworkers and there’s always the risk you find yourself sleeping in an open loft or what have you.

    1. Leatherwings*

      As long as there are private spaces for everyone, I don’t mind. I’ve booked Air BnB for my boss before traveling by himself.

    2. Nonnonnon*

      My company booked us in resort houses (not AirBnB but similar) and I was supposed to sleep in a twin trundle bed. I was kind of peeved. Ended up getting laid off immediately before the trip.

      1. ali*

        Oh, I wonder if we worked for the same company, as the exact same thing happened to me about 4 years ago.

    3. Annie Moose*

      Depends, I guess. Some coworkers got an AirBnB for a conference last month, but they were able to see pictures of the rooms before they got there, so there weren’t any surprises. As long as everybody knows what they’re getting into, I don’t see an issue.

    4. DCGirl*

      I think it’s just too easy for things to go wrong with them, whether it’s everyone sleeping in an open loft or the owner flaking out and leaving you stranded. With a hotel, you know exactly what you’re going to get and there’s recourse if something goes wrong (a hotel will walk you to another property, for example, if it’s overbooked).

      1. But you don't have an accent*

        For these reasons, my company actually put a blanket ban on AirBNB and other such housing options for business travel. There’s just too much that could go wrong, and they’d rather pay to have us in a hotel, which is a “known” quantity.

        That being said, my company also has some strict hotel requirements for employee safety, so I think there were a lot of factors that went into the decision.

    5. The OG Anonsie*

      I’m fine with it. In some cities you can get a studio apartment for cheaper than a hotel room in a central location, no sharing required.

    6. Lemon Zinger*

      If I was expected to do an extended stay somewhere (i.e. longer than a few days), I would love an AirBnB. But only if there were private rooms for each person. That said, I would still prefer a hotel suite (with a small functioning kitchen).

    7. k*

      If it’s for a single person I think it’s great, but I don’t like it for groups. Even if you can confirm that everyone will have a private room, more than likely there will be shared bathrooms. I can see people being pressured (whether overtly or implied) into saying they’re okay with that while really they’re not comfortable with it.

      Now, if budget is super tight and they only options are shared hotel rooms or Air BnB with private rooms and shared common spaces, then I’d vote for the AirBnb.

    9. LCL*

      Never. There aren’t enough ways to say no in the only language I speak to say no to this!

    10. AdAgencyChick*

      Mine won’t do it because they’re nonrefundable (right?). Clients can and do cancel travel at the last minute.

      1. zora*

        It depends, the hosts can determine their cancellation policy. I have booked rooms before that I was able to cancel the day before, but as it’s becoming more popular, I think less and less hosts are allowing cancellations.

      2. Natalie*

        Whether they’re refundable depends on the host’s policies, but there is some specific fee that’s always non-refundable.

    11. General Ginger*

      I guess it depends on the length of the trip. If it’s a longer stay, Air BnB would make sense, because of the “living in a furnished home with appliances” angle. For short trips, I’d rather a hotel.

    12. zora*

      I’m not totally against it, but would be really cautious about it.

      I used AirBnBs when traveling for just myself, in the city I was going to there were very few hotels within walking distance of where i was going for work every day, and I was able to get AirBNBs that was within a few blocks of the location, and had my own private room in an occupied apartment, for less than the cost of a hotel. Rather than a hotel several subway stops away that would have made my long days much longer and more stressful. Plus, my work at the time didn’t cover food expenses when traveling, so having access to a kitchen saved me tons of money by going to a grocery store and having breakfasts and dinners for the week.

      I think in some places they can be geographically more desirable depending on where you are going for work, so if I had an employer offer it to me as an option, I’d be interested in looking into it. I am fine sharing a living space as long as I have my own bedroom with a door. But if it was for a group from work all staying together, I would be way more cautious about the details than I would with a hotel. Making triple-sure that everyone had a private sleeping space, enough bathrooms to not cause a bottleneck, it was not too cramped for the number of people, etc.

    13. Antilles*

      I think it’s pretty ridiculous. Just strikes me as running some big potential risks for little to no benefit.
      On the downside, you’ve got all the potential issues DC Girl mentioned (flaky owners, bad sleeping arrangements, etc). Also, hotels are much more consistent; you basically know what to expect from a Holiday Inn anywhere from Alabama to Wyoming whereas an AirBnB you don’t *really* know what you’re getting yourself into until you show up on the day of.
      Then on the plus side of the ledger, I don’t see what exactly the benefit is. It might be a bit cheaper, but the cost savings from hotel to AirBnB is going to be negligible compared with the costs of everything else that goes into business travel (flight, per diem, lost productivity on the day of travel, etc). If your budget is so strained that the extra $50 a night for a decent hotel instead of AirBnB is going to make or break things, you should probably rethink the entire trip and figure if you can send fewer people / Skype it / make it fewer days / etc.

      1. CM*

        +1. As a lawyer, no way would I recommend my company use AirBnB and I would be concerned if I heard about us using it. Hotels operate legally, and have insurance and standard policies for dealing with issues. AirBnB, who knows what the hell is going on there. The owner could be renting it illegally, have hidden cameras installed, random people may have the keys, and so many other potential issues.

        1. Wheezy Weasel*

          Legal and insurance issues are my concern as well: I’m on company time but on a private person’s property. What if I get injured? The company will have to wrangle their own worker’s comp company, the homeowner’s insurance company (if it even covers commercial activity like AirBnB, which many don’t) and I’m likely going to use my own health insurance if these initial claims are denied by worker’s comp. Would your worker’s comp insurance try to deny the claim since it was an AirBnB?

          1. A Plain-Dealing Villain*

            Work comp doesn’t usually cover you while lodging. Home away from home principle means coverage stops the moment you step on the hotel property.

    14. Ann O. Nymous*

      I think if cost isn’t a factor, hotel rooms for business travel are the way to go. While I often find Airbnbs to be way cheaper than hotels, there’s a much higher risk of curve balls, like arriving and discovering you’re expected to bring your own TP (which has happened to me), the WiFi not working, the bathroom being grosser-looking that the pictures, etc. And speaking of bathrooms, in hotel rooms you get your own bathroom (unless your company makes you share, which always sucks), but in Airbnbs that’s definitely not a given.

      So unless you’re booking for a single person or you have a really tight academic/nonprofit budget, I would say Airbnb is a bad idea.

    15. Kaybee*

      Have done Air BnB in the past (same gender to a house), and will always choose hotel rooms if given a choice. There were three big issues: shared bathrooms, different temperature preferences and thin walls.

      The shared bathrooms SUCKED. We were four people to a bathroom. I have some health issues, and basically starved myself so that I wouldn’t need to urgently need the bathroom when it wasn’t available and so I wouldn’t stink it up when it was. So I was physically miserable the entire trip. No one explicitly planned this this, but showers order worked out to be hierarchical order because the lower-ranking folks felt uncomfortable saying “I should go first” when we were discussing who should get first dibs at the bathroom. This meant there was no hot water left for the most junior person, and at least one of the top folks wasn’t too great about cleaning her hair out of the drain. That’s just not something you need to know about your bosses.

      Temperature preference went the same way. The senior-ranking person basically decided what temperature we would keep the house at, which was way not comfortable for me.

      Adjoining bedrooms have thinner walls than (most) adjoining hotel rooms, which meant that we were exposed to each other’s snoring, bodily noises, “private” phone conversations, TV choices, etc.

      Never again, unless there really aren’t any other choices.

    16. writelhd*

      Based on the number of posts we get about this I suspect I’m in the minority here, or am just lucky enough to feel comfortable with all the coworkers I’d ever end up having to travel with like this, but I’m personally not bothered by sharing space. I’d share a hotel room with most of my same-gender coworkers and not be too bothered by it. (Sharing a room with someone of the opposite gender, would obviously be un-okay. ) I don’t think ending up an open loft kind of situation would be ideal, but honestly even if that happened to me I probably wouldn’t think too much about it. So, I don’t mind AirBNB over hotel. In general it can add more charm and give you options like a definite fridge to store your leftovers in that a hotel doesn’t always.

  5. Sunflower*

    I posted last week about my company hiring for my boss’s job in a new city I wanted to move to and how I would talk to my director about it. Well today is my bosses last day and I found out that my director is most likely leaving in the next few months. She told my team assistant, who she is very close with, and she accidentally spat it out to me so not even her boss knows yet. This could end up not happening but…… Hopefully this gives me more leverage to negotiate my move? Talking to the director today(and keeping my mouth shut about this info)- wish me luck!

  6. BRR*

    My employer usually does raises/promotions once a year at the beginning of the year (with some exceptions). My manager mentioned a couple of times she was working on getting me a raise and promotion because of my performance and how my role sharply expanded right after I started. I didn’t receive one though and the only reason I got was that my manager said she can only make suggestions about raises, not decide them. She left for another position shortly after.

    Last week I asked my temporary manager who is the director of our department (and was my boss’ boss) for a raise. The response was basically, “I want to. You deserve it. You’ll definitely get one next year. I’ll need a little time to see what I can do and will provides updates (and he has).” I did make sure to ask if there were any steps I should take to make sure I got one next year and was told to just keep doing what I’ve been doing (which I’ve been doing for over a year already).

    If I’m told I won’t get one until next year my two questions are 1) Can I ask why I didn’t receive one earlier this year? 2) How do you handle being told you should be paid more for what you do and you need to keep doing it for a while before we can recognize it? I’ve been keeping an eye out for new jobs but it might take a long time to find one.

    1. The Rat-Catcher*

      1) Personally, I wouldn’t. If he’s keeping you updated and giving you a timeline, I’m not sure what going over the history would do to help.
      2) This sounds a lot like what I’m currently going through, but I work in government and my boss has been pretty transparent that the hold-up is pure bureaucracy. It’s extremely frustrating, but she is basically creating an upward career path for me where one did not previously exist (I’m an admin), and I’m moving up far more quickly than anyone I know of in this role, so I am trying to focus on that and be grateful. That may not apply to you at all, but it’s how I deal with my laughably low pay. I will probably follow up in a few months if things have not progressed, though. I have a reminder set in my calendar for three months from the date of the last conversation to follow up, and am giving myself permission to put it out of my mind until then.

    2. lemonjelly*

      1 – I understand the desire to know that information, but in most situations I probably wouldn’t ask unless you have a particularly good/candid relationship with your temporary manager/director.
      2 – My last two jobs both ended up being situations where I was performing above my title/pay. In the first case, I had an amazing manager who very much recognized that, told me he knew and was fighting to get me the promotion and related raise I deserved, but was never able to get through the bureaucracy to actually get it accomplished. In that case I do truly believe my manager was doing everything he could for me, we had a great working relationship but overall the culture there was very dysfunctional and there were multiple contributing problems. I ended up leaving for another company when I got to the point where I honestly didn’t believe it would ever happen for me at that job. Another coworker and I, who both reported to the same awesome manager, ended up leaving right at the same time for similar reasons (and actually to go to the same new company… small IT world sometimes). We were both pretty candid with our manager about why we were leaving and did keep in touch afterwards, and he said that because of why we left he was able to finally get promotions for a couple other people on the team who also desperately deserved it. It was really awesome to know that our leaving did still have a positive impact!
      My last job before this one was a situation where I knew I was performing above my “level”, my coworkers and team lead all knew it too, but we had a ridiculous manager. We had discussed pay between ourselves when we suspected that new hires external hires were being treated much better than internal promotions (which, yep, ended up being very true across the board, to the tune of an average difference of about $20k), so unless my coworkers were lying I know I was underpaid for what I was doing. I ended up leaving there too after deciding that while my coworkers were awesome I couldn’t deal with terrible manager anymore. When I called to tell him I was putting in my two weeks notice (after he failed to show up in the office for a couple weeks, preventing me from being able to give notice in person), he asked why I was leaving. I didn’t want to completely burn bridges, so didn’t tell him directly that it was because I couldn’t stand working with him any longer, but I did mention that being so underpaid was a pretty serious problem for me. This should not have been news to him, I had multiple conversations with him about what it would take to get promoted, etc, and he would agree I was already “checking all the boxes” but would never give any specific timelines or commit to anything in particular. But his reaction to me bringing it up when putting my notice? First he denied that I was underpaid, and then said “but you don’t even have it that bad, there are people on the team who make less than you!” So… yeah. Because I wasn’t getting THE MOST shafted I shouldn’t complain. Doh. There is a happy ending, the job I left for is the job I’m still in now, and I love the work and my coworkers and the pay and basically everything about it, even after over a year here.
      All that was basically a novel just to say that the way I handled it was to find a new job. I don’t know how helpful that is in the short term if you think a job search will end up taking a long time, but both times I’ve been in similar situations ended with me leaving. The first job I lasted a little over 3 years in that position (but 8 years with the company total), the second was just under 2 years. So I like to think I was reasonably patient, but finally just hit my limits.

      1. BRR*

        Thanks for your response! Especially with number 1. I guess I was on the fence if it was like asking for feedback and it’s clear now that it’s not. That sucks about the second job (and really both). I don’t plan on being here past when I vest in my retirement contributions anyways so at least I don’t feel tied to my position.

        1. John B Public*

          I might suggest doing the math on that- how much would you lose if you’re not fully vested, and factor that into how much additional you’d need to make in the remaining time to recoup that loss? If it’ll take a year, and vesting only nets you $5000, then as long as you’d get a pay bump of >$5000 you should look for and accept a different position.

    3. Analysis Paralysis*

      Q1) I wouldn’t ask this (at least not in this way). If warranted, you can ask “are there specific areas that I can improve, or any areas where I need a little more polish to make me stand out more as promotion material?”. This question goes beyond asking about steps you should take to get promoted; it allows your manager a forum to address any minor things that may be holding you back. (Not saying that there are any… it’s just one way to ask about lack of promotion, without actually asking).
      Also it’s possible that people can only be promoted if there is an existing, vacant higher position. Many companies structure each department’s composition based on business need — if the structure is 10 Peons & 2 Leads, then you may have to wait for 1 of the Lead roles to open up, or look for a vacant Lead role in another department.

      Q2) Lack of transparency can be hard to deal with, and probably why you want to ask Q1. Perhaps your company is having financial issues, doesn’t have budget for raises (uhg!), doesn’t have a process for giving raises (or it’s a crappy process), or other things that your manager can’t/won’t disclose. Who knows.

      In terms of how to handle… keep the communication lines open with your manager. If you don’t already have a regularly scheduled 1:1 with your boss, then schedule it. NOTE: talk to your boss first about why* you are scheduling a reoccurring meeting and agree to frequency of meetings. * It’s important to use 1:1’s to discuss more than just self-development items such as updates on progress towards raise/promotion, coaching you on what you did well / what you can do differently. 1:1’s are a time & place to show that you want to add value / contribute to / help the company such as: identify new things would you like to try your hand at / take on, ask what new initiatives that are coming up that you may be able to lead or assist with, etc.

      Basically, be a RockStar regardless of raises/promotions. Oh, and the current situation with raises/promotions/feedback might be a Yellow Flag, so you should continue to apply / interview for other jobs. You never know what other positions may be a good/bad fit until you go through the process. Worst-case scenario is you turn down offer(s) because you determine that the Grass Isn’t Greener, and you keep sticking things out / being a RockStar where you are right now (and you can still continue to look for other opportunities).

      Good luck!

    4. Security SemiPro*

      How do I handle being told I should be paid more and I need to just keep doing it?

      So far, I do that, and keep an eye on my fair market rate and keep weighing the pros and cons of this job vs. whats available in the rest of my industry. For me, its worked out to I like my management, they’ve given me every non money perk they could think of or I could ask for (I have a very flexible work schedule, all the work I want and none that I don’t, etc.) and so I’m staying put for the time being. I highly value flexibility and being able to choose my work, and don’t value money as much – I make enough to live on comfortably and beyond that… I’d rather have the choice assignments and control over my schedule.

      It wouldn’t be impossible to hire me away, but I’m very comfortable here.

      Can your manager offer you additional flexibility or perks that would help keep you comfortable, or are you really motivated strongly only by money?

      1. Wheezy Weasel*

        Sounds like you have a really good perspective on the ‘monetization’ of that flexibility and assignment choice, and that’s something that took me 5-10 years to understand! When evaluating a new job offer, most of that flexibility is either hidden or is only verbally promised. You could take a new job with promises of working remotely and choosing your projects only to have it yanked away.

        I’ve found it helpful to remind myself if this flexibility when I’m using it…if I’m at a coffee shop at 2:30 in the afternoon on my laptop, saying ‘my employer values me enough to give me this freedom’ in my head. Or when I get to solve someone’s problem on my own authority without having to ask for 3 boss’ permission, etc.

    5. Bess*

      About #2–this happened to me once, and it really was about processes/bureaucracy/job titles/budget and there wasn’t too much anyone could do about it–I had strong advocates as supervisors and it just wasn’t in the cards. It was tough, but I loved the job enough that I stuck it out for another year or two. I don’t think I could have done it forever, but it did pay off down the line in a much better role with a decent salary.

      But it was the best job I’d ever had, so I had a lot to keep me there in spite of knowing I was grossly underpaid. I think if it had continued 3 or more years it would have been time to move on, because I really wasn’t making enough to live on, and my morale would have really kept tanking. And it can be tough to have trust when you’re told they’d promote you if they could…sometimes it’s genuine, sometimes it’s hot air.

  7. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

    Good morning all,

    I debated posting this all week, and finally figured what the heck. Alison – if it’s not work enough, I can certainly repost tomorrow.

    So, my husband has had some drama at work recently related to a workplace bully who has created a hostile working environment, and my husband had a severe panic attack Saturday night (he was supposed to go on duty Sunday morning) and asked me to take him to the hospital to receive psychiatric care.

    I can go into more detail tomorrow if anyone cares to hear about the horrible experience we had, but here’s the very, very short version… We got to the ER around 11PM Saturday, and they informed us the on-call psychiatrist wouldn’t be in until Sunday morning. That’s fine. Well when he does show up, he tells us my husband does not meet the criteria for in-patient admission, but doesn’t discharge him yet. Hours and hours go by, and then the nurse tells us that the doctor does want him to be admitted. So we go round and round with the nurse and never did see that doctor again or speak to him ourselves. Ultimately, they let us sign an AMA waiver and we left.

    Here’s where the situation gets tricky. The most accessible hospital to our home is the one at which I currently work. I just started my job here 6 weeks ago. I feel very strongly that the actions of the psychiatrist had the potential to cause more harm to my husband than any harm he would have inflicted on himself or anyone else at the time we were discharged. Not only that, there were several policy violations on the part of the staff and they really failed to provide basic patient care, and as a whole, we (as in the hospital) missed several opportunities for excellent patient care that could have turned the whole experience around. At no time did I tell the nurses that I work here, because I wanted to see what our experience would be like without any preferential staff treatment.

    Now… finally to my question… I work in the same office as our CEO. I am normally the first person in our office every morning, and he’s the second to arrive. There are a multitude of ways that I tell him about our experience (email, note, in-person, etc.), but should I? My husband really wants someone at the hospital to address the poor experience with us.

    The CEO is an interim CEO for now, and we expect to hire a new one in 4-6 months. This guy is really committed to improving patient outcomes and satisfaction, improving our reputation in the community, and improving staff morale. He is very explicit about his open-door policy so I have no doubt that he’d be receptive to a conversation. I just worry that nobody will take me or my husband seriously because my husband is “the crazy one”, even though our concerns are legitimate, and I worry that it could somehow backfire on me and I’ll get in trouble, even though I have literally done nothing wrong.

    Any thoughts anyone?

    1. NoMoreMrFixit*

      Go through whatever formal process exists for filing a complaint first. Going straight to the CEO does sometimes work but as a last resort rather than the opening move.

      1. Red Reader*

        As someone who also works in a hospital, yes. Go through the standard complaint process. (Among other things, you may find that the doc in question isn’t actually an employee of your hospital, and the formal complaint process will get you in touch with the appropriate hierarchy who can work on his boss’s end.)

        1. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

          I’ll eventually follow up to everyone’s comments but this is a quick nugget for thought… I know for a fact that the psych is a contractor, not an employee. He runs his own practice here in the same town as the hospital.

          1. Observer*

            Fundamentally, it doesn’t matter. Sure, it’s going to make a difference in how the hospital handles it internally. But, either way, it’s on the hospital to make sure that patients get treated appropriately. Besides, it’s not just the doctor who was at fault here, if I’m reading you correctly.

          2. Red Reader*

            Blerg. Either way, if they’re going to terminate their contract with him or otherwise reprimand him, they still have to have formal complaints filed through the standard process for documentation purposes.

      2. Alice*

        I really like this idea. You can plan to follow up with the CEO at the end of the process even if it does work — as in, you should know that the ombudsman did a great job when ….
        And if the process doesn’t work, that’s the time to bring in the CEO to make things right.
        Hope your husband is doing better

      3. k*

        I might give your direct boss (not sure if that’s the CEO or someone else) a heads up that you’re going through the formal process. They might appreciate just being aware of it in case someone brings it up to them, to avoid having a deer in the headlights moment.

    2. HisGirlFriday*

      I think you should. This is valuable information for him to have and he’s in the position to act on it.

      Nothing will change if nothing is ever said, and the CEO should be able to address the situation without mentioning you specifically.

      1. TL -*

        I would file a formal complaint and discuss it lightly with CEO – mention the trip, that you’ve filed a complaint, and answer any questions he has. I’d be willing to bet he’s very interested in this as a case study for patient care.

    3. Hlyssande*

      I would say to start with the regular formal complaint process that everyone has access to. But if they stonewall you there, brush you off, etc – then bring it up to the CEO, because failures in the complaint process are also failures in patient satisfaction.

      1. Newby*

        I agree. It provides more information about how deep the problem goes. It’s bad if patients are ignored in the ER. It’s worse if bringing that to the hospitals attention doesn’t do anything.

    4. Kimberly R*

      As someone who has worked in hospitals before, go through the formal complaint process. Send an email to the manager of the ER, fill out the patient satisfaction survey honestly, etc. There’s a huge emphasis on patient satisfaction these days because it ties in directly to reimbursement. They will want to know immediately and will take steps to address it with the staff. If you feel like you are getting the run around or that they aren’t taking it seriously, I do think you can go to your boss (don’t know if thats the CEO or not) and let them know about the whole thing.

      I don’t think anything will blow back on you, although anything is possible. I worked in the ER and we’ve had staff bring in family members for psychiatric reasons. No one ever thought less of the staff member (or the family member.)

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Patient satisfaction is tied to reimbursement? Can you expand on that? Does reimbursement mean insurance? government funding? something else?
        Is this based on averaging out the answers on a survey or do they consider each person individually?

        1. This Daydreamer*

          If one hospital has consistently bad outcomes the insurance companies can send their customers elsewhere.

    5. Observer*

      If your hospital really looks at psychiatric patients that way, then the place is never going to be able to provide proper care. And, unless someone is messing with the records, the key items are going to be documented – ie your husband came in at 11:00 pm, there was no one on call to see him till the next morning (If he wasn’t available, then he wasn’t on call no matter what the label said), then he was seen by the doctor who neither admitted him nor discharged him, and you finally left several hours later AMA because you couldn’t get any resolution.

      Beyond that, YOU are not a psychiatric patient – you are the patient advocate that witnessed all of the problems. How does that impugn your credibility.

      As for getting into trouble – if that’s a legitimate concern, you need to start looking for a new job and report your org. That would be problematic on SOOOOO many fronts. But, is it really a problem or is this an expression of your issues around your husbands problem or something else entirely?

      1. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

        I think I might just be caught up in my head in terms of thinking it will blow back on me. At my previous job, my boss knew about my husband’s mental health issues and alcoholism, but I’m not yet at a point where I’m prepared to share that where I am now, not because I’m ashamed or anything, but it’s just really personal. I’m struggling a lot with the be discreet/oversharing boundary, so the fact that this incident was in my workplace is just messing with my head.

        My new boss has actually been pretty great so far. We had a joint appointment with his psychologist yesterday and I didn’t tell her it was with the psychologist, just that he had a doctor appointment and I needed to be there and she checked in with me this morning to make sure everything was okay, so that was nice.

    6. Chriama*

      I would say file a formal complaint and also tell your CEO. This would be a problem no matter who had experienced it. What if the next person is someone more vulnerable and real harm is done? The fact that you have an ear to the CEO means you have *more* responsibility, rather than less, to raise issues. Raise it via the official way so it can be addressed officially, and so it sticks for future non-employee patients. But also let him know you raised it, and why, so that he can look into it and also ensure that the formal complaint process is working as it should.

      1. Zathras*

        This – you don’t want the complaint to get escalated to him with your name on it and have that be the first time he’s heard about it. So file the complaint in the official way and just say “FYI this happened, I’m definitely not asking you to bypass the official process in any way, I just wanted to make you aware of it so it isn’t a surprise if it does eventually land on your desk.”

    7. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

      Thanks for the comments everyone! It seems silly now to even question my own judgment because I am probably the most reserved person when it comes to self-advocacy. I tend to give people far more chances to make things right than they probably deserve.

      SO… the survey has not even come in yet. I think what I’ll do, based on the feedback that I’ve gotten, is wait a few more days to see if it comes, and if it hasn’t come by May 22, perhaps, which is 2 weeks since the visit, I’ll go ahead and request to meet with the CEO or even just send him a letter via snail mail from my husband.

      Thanks everyone!

      PS – Hubby was fine once he recovered from the panic attack. :-)

      1. JulieBulie*

        Glad hubby is fine!
        My instinct says that if you have a good relationship with the CEO, talk to him now and tell him what you’re going to put on the survey and why.

      2. Tatiana (RN)*

        Psych patients are excluded from HCAHPS surveys, so you probably won’t get one. I would suggest you go through the regular complaints procedure, and do it right away.

    8. ..Kat..*

      Ask to speak to the Patient Advocate for the hospital. Please give specific examples. Best of luck!

  8. LiteralGirl*

    I have a resume question.

    I stayed at home with my kids for ten years, and have been back working for 6 ½ years for the same large organization I had left. When I left I was in an analyst type position and when I returned I ended up taking an administrative assistant position to get my foot back in to the organization. I’ve since moved up and at my current boss’s request am applying to a senior analyst position on the same team. My question is this: at what point should I remove the job I left 16 years ago from my resume? I only have 6+ years back in the work force and I’m concerned that it looks strange to only have that experience on there; on the other hand, it looks wonky to have such old work experience included.

    Anyone have any advice regarding this? Thanks!

    1. Aunt Margie at Work*

      If you include the job from 16 years ago, there will be a gap.
      If you don’t include, your work history begins less than 7 years ago.
      In both cases you will be asked why you chose to get at job at that point.
      When you begin to explain that you had worked but left for your family, you will say that you were at the same company and were happy to be able to step back in. I think this makes it worthwhile to include it because it makes a good story.

    2. Pwyll*

      As an internal hire, I would absolutely include it. The bulk of your content should be focused on your most recent work experience, and the bullets under your older position should really be focused on relevant skills and top-line key successes, accomplishments, lessons learned, etc.

      As an external hire, this would depend on the job you’re applying for. Resumes don’t need to be a comprehensive listing of all of your positions, but you would definitely want to highlight the relevant skills you learned as an analyst in your previous position. The point is to make sure the focus is on the skills you learned there and still have, and not on the tasks you performed so long ago.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think it looks strange to have the gap in there. I would leave in the first stint there and just explain in your cover letter what your situation was. It is not uncommon for people to stay home with their kids and then try (and, in your case, succeed) to get back into the workforce.

    4. Emily*

      A very large portion of people have gaps in their resumes of one kind or another. As long as you can explain it – and do this in a very confident way – you should be fine.

      Just remember all Alison’s tips about interviewing. Also, remember how important eye contact and good posture are. Body language speaks volumes.

      For more info on body language, check out Amy Cuddy’s TED talk from several years back. Great information and it’s only 20 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks-_Mh1QhMc&t=17s

  9. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

    Does anyone have good advice for changing how you sound over the phone? Listening to recordings of myself, my default “customer service voice” comes across very young-sounding, and when I’m talking to older, wealthy clients about their investments, that’s a decided disadvantage for me. Trying to pitch my voice lower leaves me with a sore throat well before the end of the day. Are there any other ways you’ve had success with to sound more mature without taking on a lot of extra vocal strain?

    1. Parenthetically*

      I think vowel placement is just as important as pitch. A higher-pitched voice that’s nasally or in the back of the throat sounds really babyish, but a voice at the same pitch where the vowels are mid-mouth or toward the front of the mouth sounds less young. I’m sitting here practicing at my desk and I can consciously “move” the sound around my head — I do have a few years of vocal training under my belt, though.

      If that makes sense to you, or you can look up videos and mimic some stuff, I think that can make a difference. It might be worth a short consult with a voice teacher who can help with vowel placement.

      Oh, vocal fry too! If you’re dropping your pitch and adding a bunch of fry, your voice is going to be SOOOORE in an hour. A voice teacher can teach you how to sit in your “chest voice” without straining your throat.

      1. epilo*

        Another suggestion might be to check if your health insurance would cover meeting with a voice therapist. I found out mine did and decided to do some preventative work (I’m a singer, and was afraid of the possibility that I had been doing low-key damage to my vocal cords over the years). The therapist I worked with gave me a ton of tips to ease wear on my vocal cords and help increase my vocal endurance, and taught me exercises to practice at home to help as well.

      2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        I took voice lessons so I know I’m not using vocal fry, but I’m a natural soprano so going low is still tiring. My vowels are also pretty far forward, but I think it’s contributing to me sounding a bit squeaky with the phone’s interference.

        1. Hellanon*

          I also (consciously) drop into a more formal register when it’s a professional conversation – careful enunciation, punctuation, using constructions that are more “written English” than spoken English. I’m also conscious of over-hedging my speech – I’m polite, but try try to be fairly straightforward rather than using the “I wonder if I could ask you to do me a favor if it’s not too much trouble” thing that some folks do and that minimizes the impact of one’s words/puts one into a subordinate position. (My voice on the phone tends toward the smoky, late-night female DJ/phone sex professional, so I also have to be careful!)

      3. College Career Counselor*

        Or a speech-language pathologist who specializes in articulation/pitch, etc.!

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      I get asked all the time to “speak with your parents”. I know I sound young. Try talking slower. That might help.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think your voice has to sound lower to sound serious or older. Physically there will be limitations to how low your voice can go. But you could try other tricks like speaking more slowly, changing your diction, making sure not to engage in too much uptalk.

      1. TL -*

        Yeah for my professional voice, I only drop a quarter of an octave or so, but I level out my voice a *lot* – not monotone, but everything is in a very close range. I also keep the volume low but even, speak slowly and measured, and pause thoughtfully to give me time to compose my thoughts.
        “Oh, yeah, that’s a super important factor!” would turn to “hmm….. yes, that’s a really important consideration.”

    4. Pwyll*

      I also sound very young on the phone. One thing that helped me that I learned a billion years ago from call center work: try to match the tempo and tenor of the person you’re talking to, without changing the pitch of your voice. Slower talkers tend to feel more comfortable with people who also speak slowly, and vice-versa with fast talkers. The comfort level tends to make people more receptive to what they’re hearing for some reason, and can make you sound more knowledgeable because you’re more relatable.

      Old political boss used to do fundraising calls where she would radically change her demeanor based on the caller. It always surprised me how a complete shift in the speed of the conversation made people relax, and donate.

      1. Merci Dee*

        Heh heh heh . . . funny you should mention the difference between people who speak quickly and those who speak slowly.

        I live in the deep south, and as you might expect, we’re of the slow-talking variety around here. So I was thrown for a bit when the large, centralized customer support centers first started to rear their heads. It always seemed that I was connected in with a call center somewhere up north, or in the mid-west, where the CSRs appeared to be in a constant speed-talking contest with each other. Conversations with the reps typically sounded like this to me:

        “And how . . . eraldjf ei woierh ambi aiwe . . . account . . . alidh aih hiw akjaihg . . . additional charges . . . ahiweh alkdlkajd . . . anything else I can help you with today?”

        Blink . . . blink, blink. Pardon?

        I finally got on a service call with one guy who was super sweet, but I couldn’t understand the first word coming out of his mouth because it was just so fast. I apologized profusely for breaking into his spiel, but I told him that I just couldn’t keep up with him. He laughed when I told him that I’m from a place where we listen a lot slower than he was talking. He was great — made a point of slowing down for me, took care of everything I needed, and followed up with me in a few days to make sure all my issues had been resolved.

        So, yeah. I’ve definitely experienced this in the past. But people have always been receptive to making an effort to slow down a bit when I’ve asked for it (politely, of course, because my mama would ring my southern bell if I were ever rude to anyone. :) )

        1. Sylvia*

          I’ve been there, too. :) I had a series of calls with someone in NYC. She slowed down while I sped up and enjoyed the lack of small talk.

    5. Jessesgirl72*

      I’m a natural soprano too, but my speaking voice is medium.

      To me, the difference in my Professional Phone Voice is more about depth and tone, than pitch. Like if you were singing- round vowels, breath support and sound from your diaphragm- not through your nose (since you think you “squeak”) and yes, slow down.

    6. Be the Change*

      Nothing useful to add, but my phone voice accent is really different from my in person voice. In person my accent is NPR Reporter. On the phone, it’s Blue Ridge Honey! Apparently people loooove this.

      1. PattS*

        NPR Reporter accent! Love it! I’ve been asked if I’ve done any “professional” phone work….guess I have the smoky, late-night female DJ/phone sex professional accent.

    7. Clinical Social Worker*

      Teddy Roosevelt had a high pitched voice. He’s a “man’s man” kind of badass dude. I think focusing on diction will help but I also think that a tone and attitude will matter the most.

    8. Ashie*

      I’d worry more about making sure your language and tone are polished and professional. I think what you say and how you say it is more important than the actual sound your voice makes.

    9. FD*

      I have a lot of experience with this!

      First of all, there’s a technique to speaking with a lower voice without vocal strain. It’s sort of hard to explain how to do it, but you want to speak from the diaphragm, rather than up in the top of your chest. Try forcing yourself to sit up straight, and think “Calm.” Those tend to help you speak in a lower pitch without strain, and also helps you slow down a bit.

      Second, try to avoid ending on a rising inflection. Women are especially prone to this (it’s a socialized behavior, I think), and it makes you sound uncertain. If you don’t know what I mean by rising infliction, say these out loud:

      The table is set.
      The table is set?

      You should hear how your pitch rises at the end of the second one. It’s commonly used to indicate a question, but when you use it at the end of statements, it makes you sound both younger and more uncertain.

      Third, make a conscious effort to slow down. Leave a brief pause between sentences, sort of like a beat or two. It lets what you’ve said sink in, and makes you sound more certain. For an easy example of this, watch how Obama delivers a speech. (Most high ranking politicians do this, but he’s a good example of it.)

      It will take practice and feel unnatural at first, but in time, it’ll really make you sound more confident and mature on the phone.

    10. Zathras*

      It’s funny, I’m definitely not a natural soprano, more of a very low mezzo (though I’m not a singer except in the shower, so who knows what untrained heights and depths there are). I realized a while back that my customer service/professional voice is MUCH higher pitched than my normal speaking voice, which is kind of a problem in a male-dominated industry.

      It doesn’t help that I have hearing issues that dramatically increase the gap between how my voice sounds to me and how it sounds to everyone else.

      A side question – do singing/voice lessons help with that sort of thing? I’ve kind of secretly always wanted to learn how to sing properly.

      1. theletter*

        “A side question – do singing/voice lessons help with that sort of thing? I’ve kind of secretly always wanted to learn how to sing properly.”

        Absolutely – call your local university or music school for quality private lessons or even group lessons. I believe that everyone can sing, they just need to find the right teacher to free their voice. Plus, your heart will thank you when you’re 80 for the breathing exercises.

        1. Zathras*

          Thanks! I agree with you that everyone (or at least, most people) could learn to sing – I’m guessing like any instrument 90% is just being willing to try, and if it sounds awful try something different, until you hit on something that works.

          I live in a place where you can throw a rock in any direction and hit a university, so I’ll have to check out my options. The professionally useful side effect would be getting more control over my speaking voice. Practicing speaking on its own has zero appeal to me but practicing singing sounds fun.

      2. JanetM*

        In fact, if you don’t mind working with someone who might be quite a bit younger than you, often students will be available to give lessons. I learned this when a friend took a music pedagogy class and asked if I wanted to be one of her practicum students.

    11. theletter*

      I would listen to broadcast reporters from serious news organizations (such as NPR or PBS). I’ve noticed that even the young ones usually add a bit of a continuing song to their sentences to make them sound informed, and it helps them create a story out of a set of facts. Compare that to early Mark Zuckerberg interviews where he hits the same note at the end of almost every sentence (it’s called a verbal uptick, and often vocal fry is often a symptom of the effort to avoid it.)

      Voice lessons, yoga with a lot of breathing exercises, or a good workout can also help you gain more resonance in your voice. Remember that for most people, the longer the day and the more stress involved, the higher their voice gets.

      You might also try developing a voice that is a separate character from you ‘customer service’ voice (your ‘sound financial investment advisor voice?) For many people, when they are attempting to offer service or help over the phone, their voice gets higher and softer by default. Remember that you’re not walking them through setting up their wireless router, you’re reporting back to them on research you are doing because they paid you to do it. You get to be the knowledgeable one who steers them away from the next big ponzi scheme.

    12. Merci Dee*

      My voice also comes across as sounding younger on the phone, and it used to bother me, too. Easiest thing that I found to counteract that was to know my subject matter.

      I think that hesitancy was the thing that caused the most problems with my higher tones — that the combination of a higher voice and nervousness about making the call in the first place made me sound less knowledgeable and authoritative. So I started reviewing notes, documents, cases, etc., before I would make my phone calls. And, yes, I even drew up a small list of topics that I needed to cover in the conversation. So when I’d get on the phone with a vendor or whoever, I’d be prepared for what I needed to say. The nervousness would go away, and I could focus on the message that I needed to deliver. At that point, the pitch of my voice really didn’t matter. The vendors that I talked with were confident that I knew what I was talking about, and they were more inclined to deal with me in a more straight-forward manner.

      Once you move past worrying about your pitch, then (as Tess says in “Working Girl”) “you hit ’em with your smarts.”

    13. Anxa*

      You probably already know this trick if you’ve done voice training, but for anyone following: I have some success with dropping my shoulders down. Also, I make sure to warm my voice up with a few phrases.

    14. This Daydreamer*

      Have you gotten bad feedback from your clients or boss? I hear recordings of my voice and I sound like a robot impersonating a six-year-old, but I have been told many times that I have a fantastic phone presence. I think just about everyone hates the way they sound in a recording.

  10. Forrest*

    I was contacted by a recruiter for a position that I’m interested in exploring more. I am happy where I am but we lost a large grant so every day is pressure to raise money. At times, I feel like I’m not ready for this pressure or that it’s worth it. Again, I love what I do, I love my org’s mission, it’s an opportunity for growth but sometimes it doesn’t feel right to me. So I’m interested in the position form that stand point. It’s also for an org that focuses on a cause that is very personal to me. I don’t believe the position would be a step down because I’ll be reporting to the National Director. So I’ll be running my area and supervising people but still have someone who really knows what they’re doing guiding me. I’m not actively looking because it’s not at that point yet but I think this position is worth a conversation.

    However, can I ask about the salary range before proceeding further? I think there was a post on here that said I can since they reached out to me but I couldn’t find it.

    FYI I’ve been at my current position for 8 months but it’s my only short term stay in my almost 10 year career. I’m currently the director of my department but it’s a very small nonprofit and this new one is huge and has experienced major growth in the last year or so. I don’t think this position would be a step down though the title would imply it is. (Assistant Director opposed to my current title of Director.) The grant was lost before I came on board.

    1. Chriama*

      Anytime someone contacts you, you have the standing to ask for salary. They initiated the contact, why should you invest any time in it just to find that you’re wildly apart? Be polite but say something like “I wasn’t currently looking but the position you mentioned does interest me. Before we invest too much time in this process, can you let me know the salary for this position so I can see if we’re in the same ballpark?”

      1. Chriama*

        Ooh, thought of this as I was hitting reply – you might get some pushback from the recruiter. Just be firm “I don’t expect to commit you to a single number here and now. But I am happily employed, and I can’t spare the time to go through this process just to find out the salary is untenable.”

    2. Exec Recruiter*

      You can and should ask the salary range. If possible, do some research first on Glassdoor or through the org’s 990s to give yourself a ballpark sense of what the range might be before that conversation. It’s possible that the recruiter will try to get you to say a number first. DO NOT share what you currently make (in some places it’s now illegal to ask this!). If pressed, you can say that to make this move you’d be looking for something around $X, but of course you’d have to see the full package with benefits and so on before really making up your mind about any offer.

      1. 90% Snark by Weight*

        +100 on not saying a number first. I typically say something like:

        “My current compensation is based on my current responsibilities. Given that a new position would have different responsibilities I feel like we’d be comparing Apples to Oranges if we used my current salary as a data point.”

        Or “I don’t want to waste your time if we’re not in the same salary ballpark, so what range are we talking about.”

  11. Rapunzel*

    Has anyone had lecturers/professors who were just…clearly not interested in their students or teaching in general?

    I’m in a postgrad program at the moment at a fairly prestigious institution (not Ivy, but pretty well-known because for some reason it’s popular with TV writers), and there’s a really strong vibe of that with some of my current professors. They’re very well-respected in their fields, but give off this vibe like we as students should just be grateful to be taught by someone of their brilliance (regardless of the fact that people who make excellent researchers aren’t necessarily the best teachers).

    A lot of the time it’s like teaching is just an afterthought (the lecture notes/slides are atrocious, full of spelling errors, one of which even had the name of the subject wrong!) to their academic pursuits. The impatience they display when people ask for clarification – sure, this is probably basic knowledge to you by now, and you’ve forgotten how confusing it was the first time you had to learn it (or maybe you were so brilliant even then you didn’t feel it was difficult at all), but when a majority of the class are confused, that’s indication you’re not doing a good job!

    To a certain extent, I get it. I enjoy research but one reason I’m hesitant to get into that field is that I’m not keen on teaching. So yeah, it’s probably the least favourite part of their job. But still, it /is/ a part of their job! One that affects a lot of people and probably causes a lot of stress!

    Anyway, just needed to rant a little bit. I doubt they’re going to change the way they do things given how ingrained it seems to be.

    1. gwal*

      yup. academia’s incentives, especially for those who work w/ grad students, are completely ridiculous. teaching becomes a distant last priority…you are not alone!

    2. NoMoreMrFixit*

      Yes, seen that more than a few times. Especially with long-serving profs teaching intro level classes. A given prof may be a brilliant researcher but that does not automatically translate into being a competent or even willing teacher. Sadly there are egos as large and flammable as the Hindenburg in academia and there are definitely profs who see students as far beneath them. Goes with the territory.

      On the flip side I’ve had profs who were amazing teachers and I could sit there and listen to them recite the alphabet and still learn something new!

      Disclosure – I worked in post secondary institutions for 20+ years in IT. Taught part time myself and took literally dozens of courses.

    3. Rebecca*

      Academia is the worst! Sorry you’re being neglected. I decided not to pursue a PhD in large part because I was super neglected in my master’s program.

    4. Uncivil Engineer*

      I, unfortunately, have had this experience with professors who were probably brilliant but could not get their point across to the class. One had handouts he’d clearly been using for decades (they were handwritten in cursive, copied slightly askew so some words were cut off, and had the lavender color of an old copy machine) and another would mumble and face the white board for most of the class. I did not learn much from them.

    5. Aunt Margie at Work*

      It’s not unique to academia. You will find that in all professions. It’s hard when the person is in a supervisory/leadership role. My best suggestion is to use this experience as an object lesson. Imagine if you were in a workplace (even as a professor or instructor yourself) and your boss had professional ennui. How would you work with it? How would you work around it. Where would it hurt your career? How could it help you?

    6. Tuxedo Cat*

      It’s common enough. Most faculty are not trained to teach. If they are tenured, they can’t really lose their jobs either.

      Part of the issue is that tenure-track jobs are seen as the ultimate prize, so many people go after them without thinking about alternative jobs that still involve research.

    7. Alice*

      There are lots of faculty like that. You can’t get them out or get them to improve. What you can do is look for the invested teachers — ask other students, maybe ask the institution’s teaching and learning center if any of the faculty in your department work with them — and try to develop 1:1 mentoring relationships with the bad teachers, instead of teacher-student relationships that they obviously don’t value. Good luck….

    8. Red Reader*

      oh, god yes. I had two ostensibly graduate-level health finance and economics classes, both taught by the same instructor, where the grade for the course was based on 10 25-question multiple choice quizzes, each with five opportunities to retake, but each retake was the same questions in the same order, and while the correct answers were not provided after each take, the wrong ones were indicated – and each question only had four answer choices. So someone who really wanted to could, without even opening the textbook, complete the entire class with 100% scores.

      AND he opened all ten quizzes on day 1. I had A’s in both courses (I limited myself to only one retake per quiz without looking at the identified outcome answers :P But I read the chapters and I’ve worked in healthcare finance for over ten years ) by the end of the first day of the respective semesters.

    9. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      The issue with a lot of academics is that teaching is a) required, but not particularly helpful to actually retaining their job or building their careers, b) something they’re expected to do with absolutely zero training on pedagogy or even best practices, and c) difficult for them because academia attracts a lot of people who are very comfortable with research and scholarship but are very bad at normal workplace interactions, politics, and dealing productively with other people.

      2. AnotherLibrarian*

        This is all SO true -especially, the lack of any sort of pedagogical education for faculty.

        I’d also add that, you are at a large institution. They are called research colleges for a reason. They empathize faculty research over teaching. Teaching colleges tend to use teaching reviews as part of the tenure process, though still want research.

    10. Trout 'Waver*

      These days, professors’ primary job is writing grants to get get money to fund their research. Everything else is an afterthought.

    11. Emily*

      Yes. When I was an undergrad I saw this a lot, particularly with TAs and younger teachers. It was so frustrating, because I really was engaged and wanted to get as much as I could from each class. (College is so expensive, for crying out loud.)

    12. Anon for current purposes*

      Or when they leave HW grading to grad TAs with “use your judgment” interpretations and no strict rubric, and the TA grades you differently on HW than the prof does on tests…

      Nope, you’re not alone, which is why I’m grateful I went to a “teaching university” for grad school. Even though there weren’t any research jobs to supplement income… :(

      Oh well. Tradeoffs.

      But yeah, it really sucks when you run into a professor like that. Some of my friends had a math prof who wrote a few things n the board and didn’t say anything for long stretches of time, because it wasn’t his area of research, he wasn’t interested, and this was something he had to do that wasn’t research and took away from research.

      And you’re right. They probably won’t change. Coming from an academic family, I think part of the reason is that efforts to reform academia are seen as (and by and large, are) efforts by deep pockets to turn universities into a Dilbertian hellhole. Which isn’t to say that universities shouldn’t prepare students for real-world career paths – they oughta, and if they aren’t then they’re really zarked in the head. But there’s a better way to do it than bringing in a bunch of guys in suits to spew the latest buzzwords and make you follow insane business plans dreamt up by a Windows XP-executed simulation of Catbert.

      Sorry that this turned into a long rant; my family history compels me to write about academia in an academic manner.

      1. Anon for current purposes*

        Which is not to say that there are no good professors. I’ve had some, and the really good ones are *really good.* The problem, as someone pointed out above, is that teaching is not their primary job.

        I’m sure OP is aware of the following, but I wanted to mention this for those outside academia:

        I had to watch my Dad spend about 2-3 months straight working on funding applications, because otherwise there wouldn’t be enough money to pay his grad students a living wage. And this was on top of running daily experiments, fixing equipment when shit happened, and teaching. And the acceptance rate for funding requests is really low. In fact, the month before he died, he found out that he got *zero* funding for the following year. That’s even with leveraging connections in his network.

        IIRC Germany has universities for teaching (and some research) and institutes (purely for research). I think a system like this would be really good system, at least for STEM. I don’t know how to fix things outside STEM, and that depends on just what we want the humanities to do, among other things.

        1. SQL Coder Cat*

          I just want to say that your Dad sounds like an awesome professor (living wage for grad students). When I went to graduate school (way back in 1995 for comparison purposes) I got a monthly stipend of $425. $390 of that went to renting a one bedroom apartment (with electric included, thankfully).

          It’s been a while, but ramen still tastes like poverty to me.

          1. Anon for current purposes*

            Thanks. He was a real mensch. He couldn’t pay the highest wages (and a few of his students worked as tutors on the side at one point to make ends meet), and he was restricted by university policy, but he did what he could.

            BTW cool username!

      2. Honeybee*

        Mmpf, I don’t know. I think a lot of academics have a very wary stance towards corporate business practices, but not every highly successful business person is a stuffed suit spewing meaningless buzzwords. Sometimes business plans work, and sometimes planning for impact or a slightly faster speed are good things. I think some of the resistance honestly comes from ignorance – most academics have never really worked outside of academia – and from an unwillingness to change a system that, by definition, has mostly worked for them.

    13. Curious Anon*

      Not really, but I went to a college rather than a university. I would recommend it for undergrad for most people. The focus tends to be on teaching over research, so you have much more approachable and engaged faculty.

    14. Ash (the other one)*

      This is exactly why I am not a professor and instead just do research. I know I would be a horrible teacher….

    15. Jessesgirl72*

      Teaching is a real gift/skill. Some people can be the most brilliant and talented in their field, and still be a lousy teacher.

      Plus all the focus/prestige comes from research and publications- the teaching has come a distant last in priorities for decades.

    16. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Uf, I had that for undergrad. One of my professors “taught” by spending ~20min showing us picture-heavy powerpoint slides and just reading the captions on them, then sending us off. The classes were supposed to be 75min long. This was a religion class! Then she expected us to write long essays for our midterms and finals, based on the crappy powerpoints and a 100+ item vocab list that was the “study guide.”

    17. strawberries and raspberries*

      I feel your pain. I have to write a final paper that I’ve been putting off tonight, due tomorrow, for a professor who refused to give us an outline because “in year two of social work school you should already know how to write a paper” and, when we asked for clarification about how she would be evaluating the papers, blamed “[her] own transference” but still didn’t give us any hints.

    18. Pescadero*

      “A lot of the time it’s like teaching is just an afterthought”

      At a research university – it is.

      Faculty get ahead by publishing and bringing in grants, not by being good teachers. Being a good teacher is often antithetical to those things.

      Generally, being a really good teacher is a way to stagnate your career and limit advancement at research universities.

    19. Anxa*

      To be fair to your instructors, teaching IS probably an afterthought. Whether it’s because there aren’t enough research positions outside of academia for those that don’t care about teaching or because teaching doesn’t pay their bills, so to speak (sure, the school gets money from tuition, but professor’s can’t teach their way into job security).

      Every hour spent prepping a lecture is an hour not spent on grant writing, publishing, and keeping a lab running. And it’s not just their job on the line: if the lab goes under, a whole lot of people lose their jobs and stipends. Some tenured faculty members are kind of jerky and have earned the stereotypes, but a lot of them (and the TT and non TT faculty) are just pulled in all sorts of directions and are working 70+ hours a week.

      Community colleges have instructors that focus more on teaching, but very few of them of them have institutional support they need to thrive (80% at my school are adjuncts, and I highly doubt that all of them wish to be).

      The lack of respect higher ed has for teaching, whether it’s community colleges fighting unions for adjuncts while paying administrative staff benefits with full-time wages or research universities using grad programs as cash cows for research is pretty messed up. It’s so bad that my SO, an aspiring researcher (who looves research and teaching and isn’t quite a superstar but pretty great at both) is worried that picking up a side gig teaching may dilute his application for academic positions after his postdoc. Even if his research doesn’t take a hit, it may make him look less serious as a scientist.

      The best thing I could suggest is that when you DO get an instructor that is putting in a lot of effort or has a natural talent, let them know! Ask if student evaluations are helpful. You’re not an undergraduate, but maybe you could do your part to subtly change the culture of academia. They are marketing to students and their perception is that students don’t care as much about whether their faculty makes a living wage/have offices/can focus on their students than about living amenities on campus. Flashy research projects and big-name journal publications and celebrity researchers may garner more graduate student interest than mentorship and institutional support (which, to be fair to grad students, can be hard to judge until you’re there). Websites are being redesigned as recruitment tools first, navigable information centers second.

    20. Bess*

      It’s the academic machine (particularly the university one) that creates these situations. The prof may be particularly bad, but as others have mentioned, academics are expected to put in 70+ hour work weeks researching, writing, PUBLISHING everything they can, going to conferences, possibly applying for their own funding, advising & mentoring students, taking a turn chairing the department, reviewing graduate applications, participating in search committees, …and then oh yeah, teach this large lecture class of 120 btw.

      And at prestigious places or in particular disciplines some tenured profs are making bank, but the majority are underpaid for the amount of specialized & demanding work they’re expected to do, particularly as fewer and fewer tenured positions are available and the bulk of teachers are hired as lecturers, instructors and adjuncts. My aunt has worked for over a decade as an associate professor, teaching 4-5 classes per semester, and lives in a low cost area and can barely afford to heat her house in the winter–and she’s a very frugal woman.

      And it’s typical for there to be no coherent pedagogical perspective and limited training in teaching for grad assistants, instructors, adjuncts, or tenured professors. So you get a subject matter expert who is very brilliant and skilled at research and analytical writing and one discipline or craft, but often very little formal training in teaching, AND who may have 45 minutes to throw slides together for lecture in the morning because they had to edit that peer-reviewed essay by 11pm that night and then answer 8 emails from students who missed class asking when that project is due again and the department meeting is the next morning…oh and their kid just threw up.

      None of which is to exactly excuse laziness on the part of a prof, or to justify a lack of skill or commitment. When I was teaching at the college level I really tried to prioritize my students and I invested a ton of time into each class…but I also had little training and little advice, and tended to teach to my own type a lot…and I was going a little nuts trying to keep up with the monstrous workload. Also…teaching kids who are fresh out of high school can be pretty rough in terms of classroom dynamics. One problem student can make a whole semester really suck.

    21. Honeybee*

      Absolutely. I went to graduate school at an Ivy and the professors there were mostly like that. Many of them acted as if we students should be grateful that they were gracing us with their presence but also felt like their job was to simply show up and lecture the material at us and it was OUR jobs to try to understand it, no matter how poorly they delivered the information. I knew plenty of professors who refused to have office hours by anything other than “by appointment” or who only had one or two regular office hours a week. Teaching was definitely an afterthought, and there was definitely impatience with students they felt asked too many questions (or the “wrong” questions).

      To be somewhat fair, the professors at my institution were on “soft” money and they had to raise 80% of their own salaries through grants. They were also straight-up told by the administration that they would be rewarded for their research only, not their teaching skills or prowess. There was the idea that if you were a good teacher – god forbid an award-winning teacher – that you were spending too much time developing your teaching skills and should be spending more on research. I remember my PI warning me about that when I was taking on TA assignments; I like teaching and I’m good at it but my advisor told me that there was a ‘danger’ in spending too much time on teaching.

  12. MissMaple*

    Question for the others who are government contractors! I started my first government contract job at the beginning of January, having joined for a very specific project that was a great match to my skills. The project was cancelled at the end of April with closeout money through the end of June. Last week, I found out the company I actually work for also lost the contract to support the office I work in. We’re being given reassurances that the new contract company will likely pick up everyone, but I’m particularly nervous since the work I’m doing now, while key to the office I work in, is not an area I’m particularly skilled or experienced in. What has been everyone’s experience with being picked up by new contractors? Should I be polishing my resume?

    A bit more info if relevant, I’m good at what I do, but it’s fairly specific and can take a while to find a position that is a good match (took about a year to find this one). Since the project was eliminated, the work in my office will be related and pretty interesting, but different than what I like best and am experienced in. Basically, I can do the job that asked of me now, but I wouldn’t have taken this job as it is.

    1. GeorgiaB*

      I’ve been in government contracting for 7 years now. Badge flipping is really common, to the point that we actually use it as a selling point in our proposals (we’ll bring on the staff you’re already used to from the company we’re trying to unseat). However, since you’re not tied to a specific project at this point, I would recommend polishing your resume and seeing what else is out there. Also, my personal experience is that if you’re planning to be in government contracting long-term, there will be a lot of times where you may end up on a project that doesn’t align with your expertise or interests. It’s rare to be on the same project for more than a few years (and sometimes even significantly less than that) and if you don’t jump contractors everytime they change, you will end up on a lot of projects that you wouldn’t have normally chosen.

      1. MissMaple*

        Thank you so much! This is just the type of information I was looking for. I was have a hard time finding someone to ask my questions to who both had experience and was removed enough from the situation to be neutral.

    2. IT_Guy*

      As a former government contractor, I can tell you that a lot of contracts have specific verbiage of the amount of people who will be ‘flipped’ over to the new contract. This is a very standard practice and while I was contracting, I was with 2 different companies and they kept the same pay and benefits.

    3. caligirl*

      Current contractor here. Badge flipping is indeed very common but I personally wouldn’t rely on it. What about your current employer – are they letting you go due to lack of work or are they trying to place you in another position with another customer? Whether your company is or is not trying to place you in another position, be very proactive with reaching out to everyone you possibly can, make sure your resume is up the minute current and keep doing excellent work. Oh, and be prepared to interview at all times (keep an interview outfit in the car, that type of thing). I have been on both the management side of placing and laying off people and it really depends on so many factors there isn’t a ‘typical’ answer, I’m sorry to say! Prep as best you can and good luck!! Let us know what happens.

      1. MissMaple*

        Thanks for the tips! My current employer gave us a feel-good type speech when they found out they didn’t get the renewal. They said they do have other contracts and some openings, but were also pretty clear that they expected the new contractor to take a good number of folks. The manager in charge of my contract just keeps coming by and telling me not to panic and to keep my head down :) Unfortunately, since I haven’t been here very long I’m not sure who/how to reach out in a productive way, especially since a lot of us are in the same boat.

  13. Batshua*

    I had the WORST performance review of my LIFE. It basically boiled down to “You’re not fired or on progressive discipline, but you suck at your job and I want you to suck less but I don’t know how to help you suck less so please tell me how to help you suck less”. I got a written summary and I looked at the feedback. There was zero positive feedback and none of the feedback was SMART. Very little of it was specific or achievable, even. There was a union rep with me and he basically said that if I came in early for two weeks, probably everything would blow over.

    It’s good to know that I’m not alone on Planet Ridiculous. Having the rep tell me that there was nothing to worry about was really comforting, because dangit, I am GOOD at my job. I might not be a perfect employee, but I take my job seriously and I give a d*mn. I’ve been doing a LOT better with timeliness, but I honestly don’t know if it’s going to stick. I just have to keep trying, you know?

    1. Hlyssande*

      Wow, that’s terrible. I’m so sorry you had to sit through that. Even though you know it’s BS, that would be absolutely devastating to me. :(

      Glad the rep was able to give you a reality check about how ridiculous it was. Your boss sucks for giving you such vague, unhelpful feedback.

    2. Paperback Writer*

      I’m sorry, that’s a super frustrating situation. I’ve been on the wrong end of a vengeful boss and a horrible review. I was told I was unsatisfactory in every aspect. Though perhaps not surprisingly, no one actually ever said I was so terrible until the review. So for a year they just kept their mouths shut while I was such an awful employee. (Interesting management style). Anyway. Similar to your case, the feedback I received was so vague and non-measurable that it was almost impossible to figure out what I could do to improve. So, what I did was use the categories and tried to build off of those. I got a F in communication, so I offered to take a writing class on clear communications and a toastmaster’s class for speaking. I got an F in decision making, so I “started” sending emails with suggestions or recommendations for handling (I already did this, but I made the suggestions more apparent).

      I can’t say whether any of this would have helped. In the end, they stalled my offers to take classes and I ended up leaving about 3 months later for a better job. My takeaway is that sometimes things don’t fit no matter how hard you try and if this manager isn’t able to tell you how you can improve then they’re not a very good manager and I’m not sure it’s worthwhile to stay somewhere / with someone who can’t help you improve/grow.

    4. Emily*

      I’m sorry too. I do think you should take the rep’s advice, and trying coming in ~30 minutes early for a couple weeks.

      I come to my job early every day because it’s really nice having a quiet, calm office to start the day in.

      1. Batshua*

        Allegedly, if I’m there early, they will make me work, unpaid. Yes, I know this is illegal. Yes, I have told the union. So far no response.

        I might come in early and just NOT go to my workstation until it’s time to actually start my shift.

        1. The Other Dawn*

          If you come in early for two weeks it will blow over? Did I miss something? How does coming in early for two weeks fix everything? I’m genuinely curious. Did your review say you’re late quite often?

          1. BRR*

            I was wondering the same thing. In addition to Dawn’s thoughts, does your union rep think it will show you’re putting in effort with more time in the office?

    5. The Rat-Catcher*

      It sounds from your post like maybe you have a problem being on time for work? (No judgment here – I do too.) So, my theory (which makes a lot of assumptions, like that you’re not in a customer-facing coverage role or don’t have meetings that start at the beginning of your workday, so if I’m wrong, let me know) is that your supervisor and/or company are sticklers for being on time, but they can’t figure out WHY your being late is exactly a problem because you’re still performing well. Thus the non-specific feedback and the lack of disciplinary action.

    6. Taylor Swift*

      It’s great that you’re doing a lot better with timeliness, but does that mean you’re on time or just less late? It sucks that they’re sticklers about this one issue if you’re otherwise doing great work, but it sounds like there is an actionable step you can take here.

  14. Hlyssande*

    So glad it’s Friday. It’s been a week since I strained my SI joint (again) and I definitely came back to the office too early (Tuesday), but I was going absolutely stir-crazy at home. Part of coming back too early meant that I’ve gotten a ridiculous amount of questions about the cane I’m having to walk with for balance and pain relief. I was so embarrassed the first day and pretty much tried to hide (walked the back way to my desk, even), but despite the questions my colleagues have all been very sympathetic.

    I was honestly surprised at the positive reaction. As one of the younger people in the office, I expected some kind of grumbling about being too young to need a cane. Even the normally-uptight great grandboss was super nice about it when he noticed the cane leaning against my desk.

    So despite being in some pretty wicked pain I’ve had a fairly good week. Ready to be done with it, though.

    Happy Friday!

    1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

      I also have trouble with my SI joint. Not enough to need a cane but I have to be really careful about how and where I sit. All I can say is good luck with it.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Yay for good week, boo for pain! I hope it’s better soon.

      Don’t be embarrassed about the cane–it’s meant to help you right now. I used the scooter at Walmart and also my granddad’s cane when I had a DVT. I got some funny looks with the scooter (I was early 30s and not obese, so I didn’t look like I needed it), but I didn’t care–I wasn’t supposed to be on my feet and it was none of their business. Your coworkers sound nice and understanding.

      1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        Man, people will give you the stink-eye if you are obese and using a scooter, though. I needed one of those for basically every shopping trip for ~3 years because of a foot injury, and the looks of disgust people would give me were horrible. Folks, it’s not my weight, I fell down the frickin’ stairs!

    3. KR*

      I get what you mean about questions. I have a bit of tendinitis in both wrists, so at ExJob (which was at a grocery store, so a lot of lifting, handling, and working with your hands) I would wear a brace on whichever wrist hurt more. The amount of questions I got was ridiculous – we work at a grocery store! Half of the people who are here more than 20 hours a week have tendinitis and have to wear a brace of some kind! Come on!

  15. Discordia Angel Jones*

    AAM readership please help me with a dilemma!

    As you may have gathered from my previous comments this week, I am looking for a new job.

    I have an interview (my first one!) on Thursday next week. I’ll need to leave work at 3 to get there on time.

    My current employers don’t *technically* know I am looking, but I have had a conversation with my boss about salary and how unsustainable it is for me to have the same salary. His response was “well we would pay you more but we literally can’t right now. I understand if you need to look around.”

    What do I say when I ask to leave early on Thursday? In the past when I’ve had Dr appointments etc I haven’t been able to say “I need to leave work early as I have an appointment” I have had to specify what appointment it is.

    I was planning to ask on Monday when the appointment has been confirmed, and I was thinking of just saying I have an appointment on Thursday and will need to leave work at 3pm to get there. If pressed, what should I say to them about what appointment I am going to?

    1. Leatherwings*

      I’d just say you have an eye doctor appointment if you have to specify, honestly. Or something else specific.

    2. Namast'ay In Bed*

      Could you say something along the lines of “it’s a personal matter and I’d rather not discuss”?

    3. Ayla K*

      Dentist is my go-to. It won’t be weird if it’s a one-time thing, but dental work can often require follow-up appointments, so it won’t be strange if you have to take more time off later for other interviews. (Start complaining about a weird feeling in your teeth today!)

    4. Aunt Margie at Work*

      I don’t think you should, simply because you have an appointment and they should respect that.

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      They should not press you for information. If they do, they suck.

      Just say you have to go to the eye doctor or something. It’s really none of their business.

    6. MissDisplaced*

      Dentist is a good go-to. But if you can pre-schedule, I often take vacation day.

    7. Discordia Angel Jones*

      Thanks for your responses!

      I should clarify that my bosses are not reasonable people, and like to throw objects when they get angry and/or scream and shout (see yesterday’s thread about overreactions!), so it’s safe to assume that they don’t do simple things like respect employees’ appointments or even respond to vacation requests without taking either three weeks to do so or coming and screaming at you about how dare you take vacation before begrudgingly allowing it.

      Dentist or doctor are possibilities, and at least so far they haven’t requested proof of them! Mind you, I do *actually* have to go to the doctor within the next few weeks, so maybe dentist is a better idea for this!

      1. costume teapot*

        Dentist. I’m sure my job thought I was interviewing when I had ten dental appointments last year, but literally they were actual dental appointments! (I had 10 cavities filled and 4 teeth pulled so….it was a rough year.)

    8. Construction Safety*

      Tell em you’re having an anal polyp removed & ask if they want to see a picture.
      OK, not really, just firmly/politely say that it’s personal.

    9. Ashley*

      I have to have some tests done. Allude to female issues if dealing with males as that usually makes them squirm and be quite. (And it makes me giggle watching some insert their foot in their mouth.)

    10. Natalie*

      Eye doctor or dentist work well, as others have said, or tests, follow up, meeting a contractor at your home, or driving your spouse home from a procedure where they get anesthesia. These are all actual things I’ve been out of work for the last month or two.

      Good luck GTFOing out of that place. It sounds terrible!

    11. kittymommy*

      This probably won’t help you but I had a job once that a (male) co worker kept asking me this and he wouldn’t let it go. I finally said loudly and in front of others that since he was so eager to know that I had to go get my annual pap smear, and was that okay with him. I doubt think he looked at new the next few days. He damn sure never asked again.

  16. DropTheDatabase*

    I had an awesome 3 month review at my new job, and my boss is really supportive of my desire to become a database administrator! He said he is going to work to get me moved into an actual DBA position. We also talked about doing courses and certifications. I decided to start with SQL Server since I am most familiar with that. So lovely commentors…what courses and/or certs do you recommend for a SQL Server DBA? I’m guessing just go to Microsoft’s website and pick out whatever they have there? Is there a better method? Thanks!

    1. Annie Moose*

      Do you have Pluralsight access? I’ve never done their database courses, but they have some great courses in other areas, so I imagine their SQL stuff would be good as well.

    2. Melody Pond*

      Oo – I’m interested to see what responses you get to this. I’m also really interested in database administration.

    3. RT*

      Gratz! My friend wants to do something similar and his boss suggested https://www.cbtnuggets.com/ which has been amazing for my friend. The courses are short and easy to digest and my friend does them towards the end of his workday so it’s not inconvenient. Good luck!

    4. dba*

      Combo Oracle + SQL DBA here – I’ve been in the business for ten years. What I’ve found is certifications really mean nothing. It’s nice to have them on your resume, but experience is what we look for when hiring. If your company is going to pay for them – great! But I think your best bet is to get your hands dirty – install database software on your laptop, get experience installing, querying, backing up and restoring, looking at performance and doing basic tasks. There are a ton of places that offer various levels of training – if your company will pay for them, search the microsoft site for ones near you (there is a way to do this, I don’t recall off hand). When I was starting out with Oracle, I read the documentation (seriously). It’s incredibly valuable to know what processes do what, what memory structures do what, and how the database interacts with the OS.

      The best advice I can give is to know what you’re getting into and what has worked for me is a willingness to learn, flexibility, and where to find information on my own when I don’t have what I need. I have not balked from learning new technologies and it has greatly helped me be not only a better DBA but a valuable resource. Also be aware that being a DBA is stressful at times, and your job will follow you home. You will have nights working at 3AM for patching/upgrades/etc. Make sure you find a company that respects your time, has a solid on call rotation, flexible working arrangements (meaning you can work from home or the office), and provides comp time for the nights when you do work.

      Hope that helps!

      1. DropTheDatabase*

        Thank you! I think a combo DBA is where I’m ultimately headed, as we mainly take care of Oracle, SQL Server, and MySQL here. I expressed an interest in all + everything and we have need for that, so my boss is thrilled that I want to take on a lot of that work. And I’m thrilled that I will actually get that hands-on experience as well – I agree with you that it the hands-on experience will be the most valuable. I’ll take certs if they’re offered but my last job offered certs but no real experience, so it got me nowhere.

        I’ve been doing a lot of shadowing with our lead Oracle DBA so I think I know what I’m getting into. :)

        1. dba*

          It has served me very well over the years :) It looks better on your resume (I think anyways) and a lot of companies have multiple technologies nowadays anyway. I would also get used to using linux + command line and maybe dabbling in oracle OEM if you’ll be supporting oracle. Shell scripting is a plus too. If your company could spare you a playground linux vm server that would definitely help in getting your feet wet and I wouldn’t hesitate to request that. Most do so it really shouldn’t be a big deal. It’s nice to have a place you can run whatever you want with no consequences :)

          Oh and ALWAYS check what database you’re in BEFORE you run any sort of damaging code ;)

    5. Max*

      The MSFT site is the place to start. The 70-461 is probably the place you want to start and work towards the MCSA from there. For what its worth, in my part of the tech industry experience is worth much more than any certification. None of the SQL Devs I work with have any sort of certification.

      1. DropTheDatabase*

        Thank you! Yeah I’m not too concerned about certs other than if my dept wants to pay for them (which they will), then I’ll take it, but otherwise I want to get hands-on experience. And I am now in a job that will actually let me do that.

  17. Pregnant and Panicking*

    I’m newly pregnant and it’s ruining my working life.

    Okay, that may be a bit of an exaggeration, but sometimes it certainly feels like the truth. I’ve been suffering awful, round-the-clock morning sickness, and it’s starting to interfere with my work (I’m having trouble focusing in meetings, I had to take a sick day during an important event, I have less patience for interruptions than I used to, etc.). My role is the most client-facing in the whole organization, so I can’t even hibernate in my office.

    So far, I’ve been able to control my (inevitably bad) attitude, but it’s getting harder and harder. I’ve also only used one sick day so far, and I’m nine weeks along. A few key people in my office know–my manager (who’s also the Big Boss for the whole org) and the HR manager–and they have been unbelievably supportive and have told me they are glad to provide any accommodations that I need. However, I don’t want to share the news with anyone else for an admittedly vain reason–I’m about to receive the first ever promotion in the history of the organization. It’s been a long time coming, and I’d like to have FIFTEEN SECONDS in the spotlight for something I actually have accomplished (getting a major promotion) before people start focusing on something that took absolutely no work on my part whatsoever (getting pregnant).

    I guess what I’m really looking for is a way to realign my attitude. I just feel this whole situation is…unfair? I don’t like that something totally out of my control is affecting my work, and I hate that my colleagues may think I’ve suddenly become lazy/frazzled/incompetent for no reason. On the other hand, I don’t want to receive special treatment just because I’m the pregnant person…ugh.

    Who has a useful mantra/a good way to frame this to get me through this upsetting time?? (Also, if anyone’s got good tips for coping with morning sickness at the office, lay ’em on me!)

    1. Katie the Fed*

      I’m doing well with Preggie Pop Drops for the morning sickness, but you might want to ask your doc for recommendations.

      Your moods should settle down soon. And your colleagues might very well have an idea what’s going on, even if you hadn’t told them (I’m in my late 30s – I can’t suffer any ailment without people assuming I’m pregnant)

      1. the_scientist*

        Perhaps this is creepy from an internet stranger, but I’ve seen your comments mentioning wanting to start a family soon, so I’m thrilled (as thrilled as an internet stranger can be anyway) to hear this! Congratulations and best wishes for a healthy pregnancy and eventual tiny human :)

      2. Busytrap*

        Agreed on going to your doc — there are meds for morning sickness. They make you tired, but they were an lifesaver for me (multiple episodes of vomiting a day, just felt like I had the constant flu — totally get the awful beginning symptoms! Multiple times a day I was stopping mid-sentence because I couldn’t keep my train of thought. I felt like a space cadet.). Took them until I was 16 weeks, and then finally (!) the all-day sickness went away, and now I can manage with crackers and Preppie Pops like a normal person.

      3. ElaineCorbenic*

        I second the preggie pop drops! They are really, really, really helpful! Also keeping a small snack at your desk if you can. I always have a small bag of cheerios or goldfish to help combat the sickness. Unfortunately, I’m still super sick at 28 weeks… so it doesn’t always go away but your doctor/midwife can help with good solutions. Zofran is a lifesaver for me.

        I’ve started writing everything down and not leaving anything up to my usually excellent memory. That helped me with the frazzled feeling.

    2. Cambridge Comma*

      Congratulations on your promotion!
      If you’re finding yourself more irritable, that could be the hormones too.
      Just a couple more weeks to week 12, and things should get a lot better.
      Can you invent a minor vague illness that you can tell people about to give a reason for changes in your performance?

      1. OldMom*

        Seconding this. It always helps me to think of temporary health issues as finite. You can tough it out another three weeks… perhaps plan to take the twelfth week off to give yourself a break to look forward to. (You could also think of it as sleep deprivation which it may be…at that stage I was sleeping 12-14 hours a day.) If you really want to find a silver lining, think of it as emotional communication practice for parenting e.g. Counting to ten before you say things when you’re exhausted and irritable.

    3. Sled dog mama*

      Congratulation on your promotion!

      I found real ginger candy and motion sickness bands to be a huge help with the morning sickness. Also a dietitian I work with suggested a minor increase in sodium in the diet (we’re talking an extra pinch a day) on the theory that your body is expanding your blood volume and needs the sodium for the extra plasma which help tremendously.

        1. Honeybee*

          Real ginger ale – Hansen’s brand, specifically – is my go-to when I’m sick. So much sugar, but it’s kind of worth it.

    4. Aunt Margie at Work*

      Your self-awareness will be your savior. You know it’s the physical, the vomiting, the hormones that are affecting you, so you don’t have to let it beat you down.
      and you know what? “this whole situation seems…unfair.”
      It is. It is unfair. It’s not immature, petty, bitter, or wrong to feel that way. You can be mad and frustrated at the situation.
      As for the mantra, I googled a story my dad told me in junior high and found this on Wikipedia. Use it in good health – and in bad:
      “It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence, to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words: “And this, too, shall pass away.”

      1. Pregnant and Panicking*

        I love this! And thank you also for the affirmation that it’s okay to find this totally unfair. I think something that’s compounding my frustration is that my husband also will get a super cute baby at the end of this process, but somehow HE GETS TO GO TO WORK FOR THE NEXT SEVEN MONTHS AND PERFORM AT HIS NORMAL EXCELLENT LEVEL and for some reason I am getting punished just because I happen to be the one with ovaries. Of course I know that, duh, obviously this is the traditional way of things, but I just don’t like it! *foot stomp foot stomp, mild temper tantrum* So I appreciate the permission to feel this way, honestly.

        1. Katie the Fed*

          Oh, I am totally there with you. We get to deal with all of this, and the men just get to show up for the making and the aftermath of having a cute baby. All that AND the patriarchy. Nahhh

        2. Parenthetically*

          Have the tantrum! I find it so helpful just to give myself an hour or an afternoon to throw my hissy fit, so I can move on!

        3. Aunt Margie at Work*

          I wasn’t sure if you’d hit on that yet, so I didn’t want to bring it up, but yeah, he’s going to get the same “congratulations.” He’s a great guy. He did everything you needed. He supported you every step of the way…but he didn’t puke for weeks at time. And it’s just not fair. But there it is.

    5. Anonymoosetracks*

      Just got back from maternity leave, after having been where you are about a year ago. Talk very seriously with your OB/midwife about options for treating the morning sickness. Diclegis was a lifesaver for me. (A couple of thoughts, sorry if you know all this already: there’s no generic so it can be very expensive depending on your prescription drug coverage; you can make your own out of Unisom and Vitamin B6 pills but that didn’t work for me because it wasn’t slow-release; it doesn’t work for everyone and Zofran is a decent back-up option but has more side effects. Diclegis is Category A for pregnancy- the safest class of medication there is- better tested than many foodstuffs!) My first trimester involved a 2-week federal trial (I am an attorney) and successfully interviewing for a new and awesome job. It also involved a couple of weeks where I could eat nothing but nachos without gagging. For me, at least, the only way to feel better emotionally was to feel better physically, and it took medication to do that. I did not disclose my pregnancy to anyone at work due to the aforementioned job application, and despite the crushing morning sickness no one really guessed, except maybe the folks I was eating lunch with every day who might have started to think my nacho thing was weird, but if they did they were polite and never said anything.

      Congratulations! This whole pregnancy and parenting thing is an amazingly cool journey despite the crappy parts- I am still in awe most of the time.

      1. Pregnant and Panicking*

        I am ALL OVER that Unisom and B6 and it…might be helping? Believe me, I am super pro-anything that will help me drag my lifeless body into work.

        Your story is giving me major hope, though. If you can manage a federal trial (!!!) and job interviews, surely I can hang on to the status quo here for another few weeks!

        1. Anonymoosetracks*

          Oh, so, if you want to try the actual Diclegis rather than the homemade version, your OB may have samples they can give you- I got about a week’s supply free in sample packs from mine. Magic. Good luck!

        2. Episkey*

          Made same comment below, pretty much. I do have great medical insurance through my husband and my Rx co-pay for the Diclegis is $35. Totally worth it.

      2. Busytrap*

        Ah – thank you! This is what I took: Diclegis.

        [[sorry, I’m all over this thread. I clearly have opinions.]]

    6. Aunt Vixen*

      I got a pound bag of ginger drops from Amazon when my morning sickness hit and they did seem to help. Looking back at my past orders I appear to have paid about $15 for them, which in retrospect seems like kind of a lot. (But I have quite a lot left over, so if you’re interested and Alison can find a way to hook us up, I’d be happy to send you some.)

      Congratulations on your promotion! And good luck with the baby.

    7. Sames*

      It’s totally the hormones… I’m 5 weeks in and it’s like a roller coaster some days. I’m trying to work slower and more carefully and doing all I can to get good rest at night (still a crapshoot) and/or stealing naptime at lunch or in the early evening. It makes a huge difference in my mood the next day when I’m rested. I haven’t had much nausea yet (that’s more a 6w-11w thing for me) but low sodium V8 juice has been great in the mornings to gently balance my blood sugar and provide electrolytes and energy.

      As far as how to deal with coworker attention on your pregnancy, basically the vast majority of them will probably take their cues from you, once you announce it. If you want to chat about your baby all the time, then you’ll find coworkers who love to do so with you. If you’d rather not get into symptoms, details about the nursery, etc. then just politely halt those lines of conversation when eager coworkers go there. You may have to do that multiple times for some people, but all but the truly dense will eventually get it.

      Many congratulations to you on your upcoming promotion btw! And best of luck in the rest of your pregnancy.

    8. Shamy*

      I’m a dietitian as well as a mom. I second ginger candy/capsules. Real ginger ale is good to sip on as well, the kind made from fresh ginger. Peppermint can be soothing as well either in tea form or in aromatic oils. I’m not sure if it still exists, but when pregnant with my first son, I was a dance instructor and used something called a morning sickness stick which was basically a blend of essential oils that I would smell and it sometimes helped (this may work better for people not spinning and whhirling around).

      Depending on your condition, eating several smaller snacks a day, making sure to get enough protein. Adequate protein can improve sickness symptoms. Maybe keep peanut butter and saltines around as a snack. Last but not least, don’t shy away from asking for medication if you are really miserable. So many women suffer needlessly.

      I’m betting you are doing a better job than you think in terms of your interactions, but if anyone has noticed, they likely won’t say anything and will understand once you announce. Congrats on your promotion. Wishing you a healthy pregnancy and continued success at work.

    9. Anon today...and tomorrow*

      Congrats on the promotion!!!

      At a previous job a woman I worked with used to take her lunch in her car and get a nap in. She said it was important for her because she felt awful and it was the only way she felt human again. She did it for months before she announced her pregnancy and nobody even noticed.

    10. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      Oh wow. Flashbacks to 14 years ago. Eat often, seems counter intuitive, but I had to eat tiny amounts way more often and high protein seemed to be better than not. Your doc can you a prescription for anti-nausea meds, but I’d only go that route if it becomes unbearable. They made me so tired that it no longer mattered that I wasn’t throwing up but you may not react that way. Morning sickness never went away for me, it did let up in the second trimester, so just a few more weeks and you’ll (hopefully) get some relief.

      I remember being SO mad that I wasn’t my usual reliable self. Just so, so upset. I kept wanting to scream “I’m not really like this!” Also, later on, I had a tough time dealing with the extra time off that you naturally need when you have a kid. I love my kids and of course I want to be there to take care of them, but having no control over being able to go in to work when they are sick just drives me crazy. I only mention this now to let you know your not alone if you find yourself feeling the same way.

      I just remind myself that none of these stages last for long. It will seem like years sometimes when you are going through it, but everything really only lasts a few weeks or months. It’s a good reminder for all things having to do with parenting.

      1. Pregnant and Panicking*

        This is me all over. My reputation is for being hyper-reliable, and so every little detail I miss while I concentrate on not barfing on clients’ shoes seems to be thrown into major focus…although I’m really probably the only one who notices. But like you say, I want to carry a sign that says, “Please forgive any temporary lapses in capability, it is not me but rather this tiny, adorable parasite.”

    11. Ciscononymous*

      For the work side of things, writing things down helped for me. Things that I used to keep track of in my head with no trouble, I suddenly found escaping me. Writing helped me to pick up trains of thought that had derailed due to sickness/hormones/whatever. A lot of my “cheat sheets” for my job were developed during my pregnancy and are still helpful now, 10 months post-partum.
      The loss of patience hit me too. I got up and left one particularly bad meeting, but I don’t recommend that! Don’t feel like you have to respond to everything in the moment. Give yourself as much time as you need to calm down and re-frame the current situation in your mind.

    12. krysb*

      We had a woman react to pregnancy so bad she had to leave the company (voluntarily) until after she had her kid. Everyone who worked here are the time still shudders when they recall her pregnancy and are glad she decided to stop after that one child.

    13. Security SemiPro*

      It is unfair. Your feelings are valid and real.

      I ended up having to tell my manager waaaaay sooner than I wanted to because by 5 weeks in my “morning sickness” was a freaking demon and my doctor wanted me to work from home for 4 days a week. Even with only coming in 1 day a week I managed to throw up in what feels like every bathroom in the building and several of the exterior trash cans. I had weeks where my goal was to avoid getting hospitalized for dehydration. That said, I didn’t tell my colleagues for a long time after that – just I was dealing with a medical issue that was under a doctor’s care and I hoped would resolve soon.

      Get your promotion, celebrate it, if you need some accommodation, take it without specifying that its for pregnancy. Handle the effects of your current stress like you would any other outside of work thing that impacts your work – apologize to the people it hits worst, explain that you’re dealing with a medical thing and could they please handle this client meeting/not wear that perfume/understand if you step out for a moment. Do the prep work so that if you are unexpectedly away, someone can step in for you/reschedule for you easily. Do the prep work so that your thoughts and strategies are written down where you will be when you need them, so that if you’re tired/flaky/pissed you can still carry on without missing a beat.

      My doc wouldn’t give me drugs before 12 weeks, but after I could take anti emetics, the world got a little more stable. I could go into the office more, I stopped losing weight, etc. I had bad morning sickness the whole way through, but the drugs helped. Talk to your doc and see what they suggest.

      You can do this. And its temporary.

    14. Anonorama*

      I’m 13 weeks pregnant so I can sympathize. Talk to your dr about your morning sickness. I got a scrip for mine and it was literally life changing. My first 8 weeks were a lot like yours and my work life has been so much better since I medicated away the constant nausea. Also, are you eating enough? Even with the drugs, if I’m not eating every 3 hours, I feel like dying.

    15. Episkey*

      Ask for a Diclegis Rx. It’s a medication that was developed specifically for morning sickness and my doctor reassured me it is 100% safe and literally said, “Don’t be a hero. Just take it.”

      It has so-so efficacy for really severe morning sickness, but I do think it helped me and took some of the edge off. I still take it at night because it also helps you sleep and I’m 14 weeks along.

  18. Bork*

    I received an email (and a few more replies) in “Yoda” this morning from a complete stranger while we worked on a coding issue. I was not amused. It isn’t even May 4th!

    At least this is better than the time I had a real jerk of a guy respond to my colleagues and I in binary, bahaha.

  19. Federal hiring question*

    Federal hiring question, sorry if this is long! Last fall I exchanged a few emails with a federal hiring manager regarding my application for a job that HR had said I was unqualified. Long story short, after an email to HR that he was cc’d on, the reason was basically that I didn’t use the buzzwords in my application. The hiring manager said I’d make the referral list on a previous job in his office, so clearly I was qualified according to a different HR person (but not selected for the position). And he encouraged me to apply to a future position, and told me to contact him if I didn’t see the posting, or if I had questions, but then the hiring freeze came along.

    Anyway, the position was just posted, and I’ve tailored my USAJobs resume to the application (read: added buzzwords everywhere. It looks stupid to me, but whatever it takes to get past HR).

    My question is whether to contact him or not and let him know that I’m applying for this position? Normally I would not think to contact him, but he did seem encouraging to me to apply again to his office, and my thinking is that it might remind him about me. Does it matter, since it appears that the hiring managers only see the applications that are referred by HR? Or should I just put the application in and do nothing, which is what I would normally do.

    2. gwal*

      contact the hiring manager. it’s true, the buzzwords will likely help and your resume will only get through if you’re deemed adequately qualified on the application-specific terms/KSAs, but it could be useful to maintain that connection in the future.

      1. Federal hiring question*

        Yes, the HR determination was pretty annoying. The announcement asked for “hot herbal beverage container management” experience, and I have 14 years of “teapot management” experience. I just didn’t use the words “hot beverage.” It amazes me that anyone gets through HR.

    3. Grits McGee*

      Yes, let him know you applied. That way if there are issues with the cert (ie, you’re not on it and you should be), he can address them with HR before the cert closes and everyone’s hands are tied. Good luck!

    4. Former Retail Manager*

      Let him know that you applied. Although I am not a manager, it is my understanding (as a Federal employee) that if a manager has a specific name of a candidate, they can go through channels to find out what is going on with your application. Doesn’t seem to really be any downside to reaching out. Best of luck!

    5. Federal hiring question*

      Thanks for the answers everyone! I’ll definitely email him now. I still will put this job out of my mind after that, because even though I think I fit this position well with my qualifications, and my experience is exactly what they want (just in a different government system), I know there will be tons of candidates. I don’t have any problem with HR or the hiring manager saying there were more qualified candidates, I’ll just be annoyed if HR says again that I’m not qualified at all!

  20. MuseumChick*

    So, I’ve been at my job for just over six months now. There are a lot of things I like about but I’m noticing something I’m not sure how to push back on.

    Twice now my manager has asked me to take over projects from people with a lot more seniority/higher rank than me. The first time after a lot of back and forth I managed to push back enough where he went to the person and take the project from them to hand over to me. The second time happened just this week and I was unsuccessful in pushing back.

    Call me crazy but I feel like these people’s managers should be the ones removing the projects, handing them to my manager, who then hands it to me. So how can I push back? What scripts should I use?

    1. Bex*

      From the way you’re talking, if sounds like these projects might be actual physical things so I don’t know if my experience is relevant. But when I take over a project, I usually work directly with the other person on the handover. That allows me to get details and ask questions that their manager likely wouldn’t know. Honestly I don’t see any reason the managers would need to be involved in the handover, they only really need to agree on who should be doing the work.

      1. MuseumChick*

        No they are not physical things. My thing is basically my boss wants me to be the one going to people who far outrank me (think the CFO) and getting a project away from them.

    2. Aunt Margie at Work*

      I’m reading it with a perspective I’ve learned from reading AAM. Your manager is unhappy with the way current, senior employees are progressing and he wants you to do the work instead. He does not want to tell the employees they are doing a bad job or that he is unhappy with their work. He is letting you manage the situation.
      If he were content with their work, but thought it was something your could or should do, he wouldn’t be hiding behind you.
      I’m not going to presume to be Alison and tell you what to do, but I am going to suggest you view it this way as one possibility and determine what kind of conversation you can have with your boss about why he’s asking you to essentially reassign (not just take over) projects.

      1. Ashley*

        My fallback on this is when I go to the other person is, Boss asked me to do X. And then if they give push back suggest they talk directly to Boss and give Boss a heads up of the conversation.

      2. Taylor Swift*

        I disagree and I think you’re reading too much into it. I don’t think we know why the manager wants the projects reassigned and it’s a stretch to say he’s trying to avoid managing poor performance by getting MuseumChick to do it instead.

    3. Purplesaurus*

      It feels bad to have a project taken away, and that’s probably what they’re responding to more than you personally. It might help if you approach it one of two (or both!) ways: you are doing them a favor by taking on the work and/or you need experiencing dealing with whatever the project is. I suck at scripts, but that’s the direction I would take.

      1. Rosamond*

        I think this would work fine: “Hey, boss asked me to take over Project XYZ. Did he talk to you about that yet?….No? Do you want to talk to him about it first?”

        1. KR*

          This – this isn’t you saying, “Senior Person, I need to take over this project from you.”. You’re saying, “Senior Person, Boss asked me to take over this project from you. If you have any questions about it, he should be able to provide you with more information. What’s the current status and can you forward me any important emails?”

    4. Taylor Swift*

      I don’t think you should push back. That’s obviously not the way your manager wants it handled. For whatever reason, it sounds like that’s not the kind of thing he wants or needs to be spending his time doing. I think you should be working on how to politely and assertively tell the people who are senior to you that Manager says you’re to be taking care of X project now.

    5. Thlayli*

      I may be misunderstanding here but it sounds like you’re saying:
      1 in the past your manager asked you to take over a project and go to the person managing it, and do the handover directly with them. You refused and the manager did a handover from them and then a handover to you.
      2 your manager has again asked you to take over a project and asked you to go do a handover with the person managing it and you refused and this time the manager has refused to do a double handover and insists you do i yourself.
      3 it’s not clear whether the original managers were informed in advance that you were being assigned their projects. It’s not clear how they feel about it.

      If I have misunderstood please correct me and ignore the advice below. If I have understood correctly then the advice I have would be:
      1 it is totally normal to do a direct handover from project manager to project manager. It is literally part of your job to get the relevant info from the original project manager. Having your manager as a go-between is extremely inefficient so your manager is absolutely correct that you should be getting the info directly from them.
      2 it is unusual but not unheard of for you to be the one to inform the previous manager that you are taking over their project. in most cases they would be told in advance so they have time to prepare a handover. It is unusual enough that it makes me wonder if there is some misunderstanding. Have you assumed that the other person doesn’t know in advance you will be taking over their project? Do you know for a fact that is the case?

      Even if it is the case then informing the other person of the handover is a job that the manager can delegate to you.

      It also seems like you may be worried they won’t want to give you their project or something? I think that’s unlikely, most likely they will be over the moon to have it off their desk.

      What I would do is split it into two separate tasks. 1 inform the previous manager that you have been assignend to take over their project, and deal with any misunderstandings about that. 2 do the actual project handover only after everyone is on the same page.

      The actual handover itself shouldn’t be too difficult once everyone is in agreement about what is happening. It’s just the “inform someone higher up that I am taking their work from them” but that is daunting.

      What I would do is email the old manager and cc your boss and say
      “Hi, Boss has asked me to take over your teapot crack repair project. When would be a good time for you to meet up to do tha handover?”

      If they were completely unaware of this then they will most likely pick up the phone and ring boss straight away to ask about it.

      If an email just gets ignored then after a day or two pick up the phone or go to their office and knock on the door and repeat the same thing. If they push back make it clear that you are just doing what boss is asking and if they have any issues with it then they need to take hat up with boss. But put it more politely than that.

      Once all that is all sorted out then the old manager will be aware they have to hand over to you and they should do so in a professional way even if they aren’t happy about it.

      However, I think it’s most likely their response will be “oh thank heavens! I’ve had no time to do anything on that, it’s great boss has found someone to do it for me”.

      Good luck.

  21. Gandalf the Nude*

    I hope this isn’t terribly off-topic for this thread, but I just started playing Dungeons and Dragons and learning about the deities in its pantheons. I’m pretty sure there are other D&D players in this community, and I want to know why not a one of you has mentioned the Merchant’s Friend, the goddess of commerce and the accumulation of wealth through free and fair trade.

    Her name is Waukeen.

    2. Aunt Margie at Work*

      LOL.
      on the other hand, the goddess of altruism and acts of charity is named JoAHquin

    3. EvilQueenRegina*

      On the show Riverdale, Kevin was dating a guy named Joaquin. Every time that character appeared on screen I kept thinking Wakeen.

    4. Red Reader*

      One of the side-story bad guys in Sense8 is Joaquin, and I grin like a madwoman every time he gets cursed out or beat up. “Take that, Wakeen!”

    5. katamia*

      LOL. I grew up playing Baldur’s Gate and similar games, and before I knew the Wakeen/Joaquin story, I just assumed it was a D&D reference.

      1. Gandalf the Nude*

        This is amazing. When I read about her yesterday, I briefly wondered if she was a recent addition by one of our commentors.

        1. katamia*

          Well, it makes sense–commerce and employment aren’t the exact same thing, but there’s a lot of overlap there. :)

          1. Gandalf the Nude*

            That’s entirely why I thought that, haha. It just lined up too perfectly.

    6. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Look, I’m a cleric of Pelor, I’m not about to go talking up a competitor, yanno?

    7. Lightly-chewed Jimmy*

      I started in Basic D&D, then went on to the DM’s homebrew 2nd ed – no Waukeen :)

  22. Rebecca*

    Do you have baby showers in your office? For everyone, or just moms? I hate workplace milestone celebrations, but I think it’s weird that we only celebrate these for women, and not men. My coworker is pregnant, and my boss suggested having a baby shower for her with everyone all together, then for the men to leave after a little bit. This is Not Okay, right?

    1. Cambridge Comma*

      I’m boycotting these kinds of celebrations until we have them for expectant fathers/grooms too.

      1. AwkwardKaterpillar*

        We actually do at my office. I think it’s the only semi progressive thing we do in the whole organization.

        1. Anon today...and tomorrow*

          I had a baby shower thrown for me by my co-workers when I was pregnant with my first born. It was coordinated by a man. He was a new dad and was so excited to share his new dad experience and cool gadget recommendations. I got the best diaper bag that I never would have picked for myself. It was ugly but dang, that thing was like the MacGyver of diaper bags.

    2. Namast'ay In Bed*

      I think having a (small) baby shower at work is fine, but the whole “men need to leave” part is suuuper weird.

      1. Annie Moose*

        I agree, that’s so weird. We had baby showers at OldJob too, but both men and women were invited (and stayed the whole time).

        1. Rebecca*

          As a queer woman with a nonbinary partner, I sometimes I wonder if my reactions to these things are too far out of the zeitgeist. I suppose not!

    4. fposte*

      I’m keen to know what the women will be doing that the men can’t stay for. Is it a coven?

    5. Emi.*

      That’s weird. The only reason I can think of for having the men leave is so you can play weird games like “guess how fat she is in squares of toilet paper,” which you really shouldn’t do at work.

      My office had a joint shower for the man and the woman who were having babies, and it was fun! Literally just cake, presents, and “How are you/your wife feeling? What does the nursery look like? Do you have names picked out?”

      1. Parenthetically*

        Coed showers are way more fun IMO than those 60s Betty Draper throwback women-only showers. Like, I’m not having an enema and scopolamine and forceps, so can I also skip the pink frills and the cutesy games and the ladies sitting around sipping punch?

        1. Electric Hedgehog*

          So, I was just skimming the comments and read this one without context. It was horrifying… like why would it be ok to use all those things with all the ladies in a locker room type ladies shower? Thank you.

    6. Michelle*

      IMO, no it’s not okay to ask the men to leave. We have had quite a few baby showers at work and the men seem to enjoy them as much as the women. If the woman chooses to open presents during the shower, the men usually grab another plate of munchies to eat and make appropriate “cute” noises like everyone else. Suggesting the menfolk leave is…sexist.

      1. paul*

        that’s how we do it the rare times it happened. Hell I had a baby shower at my work with our first –got some diapers and we had brownies and chips. 10/10, would do again if one of my coworkers was pregnant/had pregnant wife

      2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        Agreed — in fact, when we had one for my boss at OldJob, I think some of the men who were fathers had more fun than the women who weren’t — and gave more useful/better gifts!

      3. Anxa*

        I would also argue that if things are going to get just that … feminine where the men may feel uncomfortable or out of their element, there’s a good chance the women will, too.

        I’m boy no means a tomboy and I deeply value female-only/female-dominant spaces and rituals, but it can very easily go into overkill and forced femininity really easily. Triply so in a work environment.

    7. Delta Delta*

      I have only ever attended 2 workplace showers. One for a man, and one for a woman. The one for a man was in my first job out of college and I remember thinking, “what a great idea! the baby is his baby too!” That thought quickly shifted to, “cake!” Long story short: celebrate both parents, and yum – cake.

      Why would the men leave after a while? That’s a puzzler.

    8. Aunt Margie at Work*

      I missed the word baby in your first sentence, so I’m still kind of freaked out.
      But no, single gender is BS. We had baby showers for two of the men in my department. We invited there wives. It was fun. Also, I call BS on men being automatically OFF the list and women automatically on. Like Alison says, opt in versus opt out of these things.

    9. Unlucky Bear*

      My work threw me a baby shower last year and our lone male colleague definitely was invited.

      Conversely, my husband’s office threw him a surprise baby shower. The theme was “A Jedi is Born.” He was delighted.

    10. kavm*

      We do have (small) showers in our office, and we absolutely have them for the fathers. In fact, since I’ve been here there have been 3 men who’ve had kids, and no women. And we’ve done showers for all 3 of them.

      It’s definitely Not Okay to kick out the men. What a stupid suggestion!

    11. AwkwardKaterpillar*

      Yeah not okay. First, separating activity by genders is no good. Second – why would your boss assume the women were more interested than the men? I have negative interest in baby showers and babies in general, and there are men that are the opposite. Push back.

      1. Sami*

        Agree. I’m a woman and definitely not a fan of showers (baby or bridal). I’d go to say “Hi. Congratulations!” And grab some food (cake!) and leave as soon as humanly possible.

    12. General Ginger*

      Unfortunately that’s how it’s done at my office. I think it’s gross, but I’m the only one here that does.

    13. Can't Sit Still*

      Baby showers for every baby at my job! If it’s the employee’s spouse who is pregnant, we arrange it so they can attend, too. It’s cake and presents, why do the men need to leave? What on earth is your boss planning?

    14. ByLetters*

      So far I’ve only seen them held for females at my office place, which I don’t like — to be honest I feel a little bit awkward about celebrating them in the office in general (the one currently being planned is for a manager above me, and that brings in the whole ‘buying gifts for managers’ awkwardness).

      But now that I think about it, I REALLY don’t like that it’s only for the females — and even here, I think expecting the men to leave the “party” would be considered horrifying. Even “showers” are literally just an excuse to bring in treats with a slight suggestion of gifts. No games, no jokes, not even decorations.

    15. Lauren*

      We used to do one for everyone, and even made the first time fathers do a quiz on disney characters! We usually collected money, then designated a shopper to buy stuff, gift wrappers, couple bakers who wanted to make food, and then a decorating team. We are all super involved and just sent an email around with the roles needed, including the distraction person. We once made the owner take a guy out for his annual review at the restaurant downstairs so we could set up as he almost never left the office. We’ve invited the mom-to-be as well too, in one case she was a distraction with lunch out and they came back to the shower. It makes the guys feel like they won’t be looked down upon for needing a flex schedule too if you make it just like any shower for a mom-to-be. Not just a awkward, hey here is a gift card, but cake, presents, games, decorations, and elaborate distractions to keep it a surprise.

    16. Purplesaurus*

      I’d likely approach this in a panicked state, saying, “If we’re doing something the men need to leave the room for then I’m not likely going to be comfortable staying either. Maybe whatever it is shouldn’t be happening at all if that’s the case!”

    17. AliceBD*

      We do baby showers for anyone who is expecting a baby, regardless of gender. And everyone who works with the expectant parent is invited to attend and stay the entire time. I think our way is he reasonable way to handle it in an office.

    18. Lucy Richardson*

      Everywhere I’ve worked we’ve done both baby and wedding showers for everyone, with everyone who works with the guest of honor invited, and consisting entirely of cake and presents – no games.

    19. Rosamond*

      I’m glad to say everywhere I’ve worked has done baby showers for every parent who wanted one, and everyone was invited, regardless of gender. The suggestion of segregating them by gender would not have been received well, at all.

    20. RabbitRabbit*

      We have wedding/baby showers for anyone in my department, and they’re co-ed as well. Kicking the men out is uncool.

    21. Shelly*

      We have them for both genders at our office, but only with permission of the future parent. But we also celebrate weddings and such. I think it might be because we’re a religious college, so we tend to be pretty family oriented.

      Also, asking the men to leave is very much NOT OKAY.

    22. Nervous Accountant*

      Kicking the men out is SOOOO WEIRD!

      I’ve been here for a few years now and so far, the shower was only thrown for 2 women who were expecting at the same time. My current manager had a baby last year, so we all pitched in and bought him some gifts and a card but it wasn’t a shower per se. I don’t know what will happen when (IF, hopefully WHEN) it’s my turn but I cannot fathom ANYONE here saying only women or something (plus it’s majority guys here so that’s super weird to exclude them)

    23. Cassie*

      We’ve had baby showers a few times at my workplace – twice was for the new mom (it was the same person, for her first and second kid) and once was for the new dad. I only attended once so I’m not entirely sure how it was handled but everyone was invited to attend. There were some games but not gendered at all – like baby-themed bingo.

      I definitely don’t think the men should be excluded (either entirely or partially). There have been questions before about work social events (like showers) – if it’s at work, it’s not a traditional shower where only women are invited or only close friends are invited. It’s more like a work party with a specific theme (e.g. a soon-to-be born baby).

  23. Disappointed*

    In a bit of a pickle. I accepted a counter offer from my company to move into a new role. My acceptance was conditional based on improved salary and performance review after a specified period of time. I found out almost immediately HR could not offer quite as high salary as I wanted, but was willing to compromise. In the last few days, I found out they were also unwilling to put language about the performance review into my contract either. We’re currently negotiating.

    Looked at objectively, my career has improved leaps and bounds at this company. Personally, though, it’s been a lot of confusion and frustration and my trust has been eroded. When I found out about this, my immediate reaction was maybe I can call the other company and see if they’d still have me.

    I don’t think this happened due to any malice on the company’s part and the hiring manager is doing his best to make me feel comfortable, however my excitement has vanished.

    What are other people’s thoughts reading this?

    1. fposte*

      That this is one of the many downsides of counteroffers. Once you’re disenchanted enough with a place to consider leaving, it’s hard for them to truly win your heart back once you get past the thrill of realizing it’s worth it to them to fight for you. (I’m not familiar with negotiating for a performance review–is that a common thing, and how does that work?)

      1. H.C.*

        I think the performance review part is for another pay bump, contingent on satisfactory (or better) performance X months into the job (thus the review), but it’s more typical for new hire situations than for counteroffers.

      2. Disappointed*

        That sums it up well. Having the feeling that they would fight to keep me made me feel much better about the situation and now it feels more like they tricked me into staying, though I’m sure it wasn’t the intent.

        The reason I negotiated a performance review within a specific period was they told me they were sure they could bump me up a pay grade in a short amount of time depending on performance, so I asked for that in writing. Definitely non-standard, considering the fuss they’re putting up.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      If I’m reading this correctly, I think you did everything right except maybe not waiting for it to be in writing before you turned down the other job.

      In other words, is this what happened?
      1. You got an offer from another company.
      2. Your current company counter-offered.
      3. You said “I’ll take the counter offer under these conditions.”
      4. They said “Sure” but didn’t put the conditions in writing.
      5. You had already turned down the offer from the other company.

      If that’s the case, it’s going to be tough to salvage at this point. You could try to reach out to the other company to see if they’ll still take you, but I think it’s going to make you look wishy-washy to both companies. In the future (I don’t know if you’ll ever run into this situation again), I would just not take the counter offer, but if you did, the best thing to do would be to say “That sounds good. If you can get that to me in writing by tomorrow, I can let the other company know I won’t be accepting their offer.” Too late for that probably, though.

      1. Disappointed*

        I actually got it in writing – just not in my official contract. That’s what makes this whole thing doubly unfair.

        Agree with all other assessments! I wish I had taken the other offer, but I was concerned about relocating.

          2. Disappointed*

            Thanks for responding Alison.

            That might be the case. I suppose what I’m struggling with is whether to try and make the most of it and stay or just cut my losses.

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              I’d try to figure out what’s behind their resistance. Is it just “our contracts are standardized and altering yours to include this would be a huge logistical nightmare”? Or are you sensing that they’re not so committed to the promises they made? If it’s the first and you have it in writing anyway, that would concern me less than the second.

  24. Bad Candidate*

    We moved into a new building this week and I have new neighbors. I’ve discovered that one of my neighbors, Catelyn, shakes her leg up and down for most of the day. It’s causing vibrations to the point that my monitor is shaking and the feel of it through the floor is making me nauseous. I know it’s her because she’s out today and there’s no shaking. Another coworker went into Catelyn’s cube, sat down and shook her leg, and sure enough, same outcome. So… what do I do? I like Catelyn, she’s nice, but this shaking thing is driving me nuts. I’m sure she doesn’t know she’s doing it and can’t likely control it. I don’t think they can move me and anyone else that moves here would have the same problem.

    1. Leatherwings*

      This drives me nuts too. In my last workplace my neighbor did it allll day. I think you have to be straightforward with her though “Catelyn, I’m sure you don’t know this but when you shake your leg it makes a lot of noise and causes vibrations all the way through my space. Can you cut down on that please?”

    2. MissMaple*

      I think the best path forward is just to let her know. My husband does this sort of thing, but he’ll definitely stop if someone points it out, particularly if it’s causing serious issues like making things wobble. She just might switch to something like pen-clicking or gum snapping which are my husband’s other go-tos though, which he’ll also stop if brought to his attention.

      1. Liane*

        My husband does it too. In HIS case, there a reason in his medical history, but he can stop if you ask. (Although it will happen again.) So even if you know/think this might be behind it, try just talking to her as if it were anything else.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Yeah, my husband did this, too. It was a heart issue. And yes, he stopped if you asked.

    3. JLK in the ATX*

      Hi! I’m a leg shaker, too. It’s a completely absent-minded thing to do and we don’t often know that we do it. It’s part of our thinking process, nerves or what not. Please tell us that we do it. We don’t want to be annoying or disruptive. However, we should be more cognizant of our annoying habit and take strides to avoid contact with shared spaces or find althernatives to our fidgeting.

      Nip it in the bud. Just say, “Hi. You might not know that your shaking leg habit sends waves into my office (you can’t speak about others unless you survey them). It’s hard for me to concentrate when you do it. Can you please stop.’ No fancy words, attempts at humor or appeasement. It would be the same for gum smackers, snorters, loud laughers, perfumer wearers and farters. We all share spaces and we all have to figure out how to make them work for us.

      1. Bagworm*

        As another leg shaker, totally agreed! Please just ask. We often don’t know if/how much it shakes others’ area and/or don’t even realize we’re doing it.

    4. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      She can control it. Ask her to. This is one of those things like humming or whistling (my habit) or whispering to oneself that people have to learn to control when they’re in the office.

      1. Undine*

        I have a condition where I sometimes shake quite violently (Like, it would be impossible for me to work and shake at the same time). And yes, I can control it — for a little while. But controlling it is exhausting and makes it worse when it breaks through and starts up again. There are physical conditions that cause different levels of movement or tremors. It doesn’t sound like this is the problem with this coworker, but talk to the person, don’t make assumptions like “she can control it.”

      2. curmudgeon*

        um.. she might not be able to control it.
        I can’t. I have to keep moving or my legs seize up and I can’t get up. I’m constantly shifting around, shaking legs, whatever. I’m sorry if it bothers you but I really like to be able to get up without falling down.

    5. Lauren*

      I have restless leg syndrome, and I shake my legs without thinking about it. My cube mate just tells me and I can stop it, but its an ongoing process. You prob can’t get her to change the behavior if it is a physical need to move her legs like with RLS.

      Ask to move.

    6. Kama'aina Kitty*

      Try using shock absorbing materials under her foot/chair, under your monitor, anywhere that’s shaking. Something like a yoga mat or an anti-fatigue floor mat or the rubbery kind of shelf liner.

    7. Cassie*

      Ask her if she can stop. Even if she can’t stop completely (e.g. medical condition), maybe she can reduce the impact or frequency?

      I say this like it’s the easiest thing to ask. I wouldn’t have the guts to ask and would just seethe in my cubicle til the end of time. But really, it shouldn’t be that difficult. When I was in the 8th grade, the kid in front of me turned around and asked if I could stop kicking his chair. I knew I had been swinging my legs back and forth, but didn’t realize I was making contact.

      If an 8th grader can ask, we all should be able to :)

  25. Ayla K*

    I was looking through the archives and couldn’t find the right answer. My office seems to be VERY focused on dieting and weight. It took me 11 years but I’m really happy with the way I look and feel – I’m not at my skinniest, but I am for sure at my healthiest. But people love to talk about the latest crash diet they’re on and bemoan how they have to deny themselves certain foods or whatever, and that’s a lifestyle that doesn’t speak to me at all. I eat what I want within reason and I don’t brag about it, but I don’t want to hear about the guilty feelings, the so-called “bad foods” tempting them around the office, and how tired and fatigued they are from skipping meals.

    How can I nicely say, “please don’t talk to me about your diet”? This is usually with supervisors and managers above me.

    1. NaoNao*

      Maybe make it super boring to talk to you about dieting, etc?
      Like “mmm…” and then politely drift off and go back to your desk?
      Or you could perhaps just change the subject—latest movie and tv shows, a fun trip you had, etc. So “Oh, hmm. Sounds rough. Speaking of food, I went to a food truck bonanza this weekend and saw a great band. Do you like live music?”
      As a last resort, you could spearhead a “healthy bodies” type campaign where it’s more about focus on healthy choices than dieting and all that.

      1. Anonymous for this Post*

        Seconded to make it super boring. Don’t really comment on the diet, just make noises like “mmm” and change the subject. If they are even slightly aware, they’ll realize you don’t want to talk about their diet.

        A few years back, I did a mean thing regarding food. Quite a few of the people in my cubeland were on a diet that involved eating a lot of broccoli and they talked about it constantly. If you weren’t on the broccoli diet, they would stare at your food and ask questions about it, how it was prepared, what was the calorie count, etc. I was so sick of it. So one Friday I went to the bakery super early and got two of the nicest cakes they had- a three layer red velvet cake and a three layer chocolate ganache cake. I hid them in my cube and right before the broccoli crowd went to lunch started I went in and put them out with a sign that said “please help yourself”. I heated my lunch, cut a slice of each cake and sat down to enjoy myself. I watched as they came in, saw the cakes and froze for a second. As the prepared their broccoli they just keep staring at the cakes. As I started to eat my slices, they stared at me. I finally said “Why don’t you just have a slice? Moderation is the key”. I finished and left. By the end of the lunches (around 1:30), both of the cakes were gone. Broccoli crowd quit talking about diets around me after that.

        I am slightly ashamed of doing that, but only slightly. I know dieting and getting healthy can be hard, but if I had to listen to another few days of broccoli talk, I would have lost my mind.

      2. k*

        I think the avoid and deflect path is your best option. If you don’t engage in the conversation eventually they might get the hit and stop talking about it.

        If you want to be more direct, you can try something like, “Sounds rough. Diets aren’t really my thing, so I can’t relate. But if it works for you that’s cool.” And then change the subject or walk away.

      3. Beatrice*

        Oh man, excessive diet talk is prevalent in my family and it’s the worst. It’s also something that I feel like we should actively discourage in the workplace because a lot of people find even casual diet talk really upsetting, and I feel like diet talk is almost always directed at women. But I also think it’s something that people talk about because they’re looking for reassurance and social connection, and that’s understandable. What works for me typically is a subtle subject change like NaoNao suggested. Maybe they say “I can’t have any more muffins, I need to be good”, and you could respond with something like, “Oh, my dad made great muffins for my kid’s birthday party the other day. I can’t believe she’s already seven!”.

    3. Jaydee*

      If you’re specifically dealing with people trying to talk to you about their diets, I think you can just be polite but straightforward and try to redirect back to work topics. “Oh, I’m actually not that interested in dieting and weight loss. But I did have a question about the new teapot thickness guidelines….” I think it can be harder if they aren’t talking *to* you about their diets are but talking *near* you or just infusing the office culture with diet and weight loss talk. But even then you can gently call them out on it and redirect back to work. And if you find you need an excuse, the (maybe imaginary) cousin/college roommate/friend recovering from an eating disorder might provide that. “Actually, I have a cousin who struggled for years with an eating disorder, so I really try to stay away from discussions of diet and weight loss since you just never know if others are in that same boat.”

    4. Observer*

      Blame your doctor ;)

      “My doctor thinks I’m at a healthy weight and thinks I’m better off not discussing dieting.”

    5. Borgette*

      I’m in the same boat! I work for a hospital system. As a perk they offer a weight reduction/management program which leads to a lot of diet/body talk in the workplace.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      “Weight and diet are only two aspects of good health. There are many other aspects. I use a broad picture focus myself.”

  26. Stranger than fiction*

    Happy Friday everyone,
    Would you interview with this company again if you were in this situation?
    My SO is miserable at the small software company he works at, is surrounded by inexperienced people and is underpaid.
    About four years ago, he interviewed with a large multinational corporation in an industry he has tons experience in and the posted salary range was inline with what he should be making. He got all the way through the process and on the last interview, the hiring manager made him a verbal offer and said so and so in HR would be getting in touch with the details. They never did. He waited a few weeks and emailed the HR lady and she never replied. He moved on to current job.
    Two years ago, same company contacted him again and he had a phone interview with one of the same women he interviewed with in person the last time. She was loudly eating and slurping her food and barely paying attention the entire call, and it didn’t go any further.
    Yesterday, a recruiter with this same company contacted him again! I said he should be candid with this recruiter about what happened before.
    What do y’all think? Is it worth it to give them a third chance?

    1. fposte*

      I don’t think the second one matters that much–he didn’t make it past a phone screen, and that happens. The first, however, is a concern to me; while I don’t swim in the corporate and recruiting world, I think it’s worth raising the point that as far as he knows he’s still waiting to onboard for the job they offered him in 2012.

      1. Stranger than fiction*

        Ha! Now that would certainly bring a bit of levity to the conversation.

    2. katamia*

      I wouldn’t, but due to the first incident. The second one doesn’t reflect well, either, but it’s personal rather than indicative of possible disorganization within the company.

    4. Thinking out loud*

      Is it the same recruiter? If not, I’d politely decline. If so, I’d move forward without mentioning what happened with the previous recruiter. If you happen to get the job, I’d wait six months or so and then mention it to a manager in HR, but you are unlikely to get anywhere by mentioning to a new recruiter that you had a bad experience with a previous recruiter. (Background: I worked at a multinational company for ~12 years.)

      1. Thinking out loud*

        Dang it, I said it backwards. If it’s the same recruiter, I would decline the interview. If it’s a different recruiter, I’d move forward. Sorry!

        1. Stranger than fiction*

          Different recruiter and he did end up mentioning politely what happened before. The guy apologized and asked for their names, which he has at home and will give over the weekend. He thinks the original hiring manager guy is gone, but is worried chewy lady may have been promoted to that guy’s role. Should be interesting!

  27. NaoNao*

    The two year itch:
    Throughout my professional career (I’m a late bloomer, retail until about age 30, so my career is only 8 years old at this point) I’ve had a pattern: get a good job, do great, challenging work, get kudos and have fun, then slowly get “itchy feet”, and wind up looking for something new at the 2 year mark.
    I’m in the best paying job of my career so far, and I have a ton of creative control, which is very important to me. I’m able to build lots of key skills for my field, and I love my coworkers and boss.
    But…my GrandBoss and a coworker have left recently, and their empty desks/offices are kind of getting to me!
    I’m in a huge, multi-national corp that has a rep for keeping its people for-ever (a coworker recently celebrated 40 years!!) and I’m in a bit of a “golden handcuffs” position–the perks are great.
    Anyone have advice for this two year itch? Anyone experience this as well?

    1. Jaydee*

      Can you satisfy the itch at your current workplace or in a way that isn’t work-related? For example, is there a project you could take on at work or an opportunity to learn a new skill or work with a different team on something? Is there a big change you could make in another area of your life (redecorate your home, take up a new hobby, adopt a dog, learn a language, plan a big trip, etc.?)

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Sounds like me! I love my new jobs for about the first 1-2 years BUT THEN SOMETHING CHANGES.
      This time, it was both a corporate sale and several new bosses (5 in 3 years) + a office relocation. I really like my job (salary-work-people) and don’t really want to leave… but I HATE the new office location & new office layout (open office and I’m stuck right in the middle out in the open). I. Just. Can’t.

      I think you have to ask yourself what you actually dislike and is it a deal-breaker? Is it just the uncertainty of not having a GrandBoss? That doesn’t seem like a huge issue to me, unless you get a BAD new GrandBoss.
      Are you just bored? Why not apply for a higher up position within the company?

      I get it, being a grass-is-greener person myself, but unless you truly have a specific and actionable reason (money, commute, bad boss, etc.) that makes current work situation untenable I think I would sick it out.

    3. Qestia*

      I’m the same way and I hate that about me. I’m in a great job- I like the people and the work I do, the pay and benefits are the best ever. But it’s in a business area I haven’t worked in before and I’m not sure I’m interested in our business. But I like what I do for the business so why can’t I just deal?

    4. writelhd*

      I think I know certain people who are more naturally inclined to “the itch” than others, and it can come out in many ways. At it’s heart, is it about the fact that, no matter what you’re doing, it always means there’ something ELSE you AREN’T doing, and that causes feelings of regret? I’m a little like this but I have some friends who are worse, though for us the regret is about having a “real” job that pays bills for adult things like permanence vs traveling around the world working minimum wage jobs just to be somewhere cool and adventure in the spare time. I’ve done both, and miss one when I’m doing the other, but, am kinda stuck in the “real job” path now and am learning to find ways to satisfy the travel itch with spending money on travel, and hobbies etc. Some friends still can’t seem to decide which one they want, so do a lot of switching, and also spend a lot of time unhappy.

      I guess if this feels like you then realize that to some degree one will always feel this way, because it’s a natural bias to make what you don’t have seem more important than what you do. Even in the day to day grind you have to feel all the emotions every single time, no shortcuts. Some things–like people you like to work with leaving–are sad and can make the regret stuff come up again mores trongly, but ultimately is more likely to be a temporary sadness.

    5. AnotherLibrarian*

      I’ve had the same problem. What got me through it was finding a new challenge at my current job. Maybe there’s something you can take on that’ll be new and different?

    6. Security SemiPro*

      I used to be you!

      And in some ways still am, but my current company has room for me to take on a new big challenge whenever I’m ready/antsy, so I’ve been here for ages longer than I’d expected, and I’m starting to plan to stay here for …ever, maybe?

      You like the perks, you like the company, yes? What usually happens to me, about every 12-20 months, is that I either finish something big or I feel like I’ve finally gotten on top of a big project/workflow/theme to the point where I’m efficient at the work – still learning new things, still have full days, but I’m on top of things and don’t have space to do much more. What my current job/management/company does that previous places have not is that they work to pull things I’m done with off my plate so that I can put something else new and big on it. Sometimes its an entirely new role. Sometimes its a large new responsibility. Sometimes its a problem that needs to be solved. Its always something that adds chaos and challenge and feels overwhelming at first .

      I will say that if you can stick through the 2 year hump and find your next big challenge after “learn the job and make it yours”, really cool things start happening. I’m finding that “learn the company and make it yours” and “learn the industry and make it yours” are exhilarating in ways that I never would have guess when I was taking on a new job in a new company every couple of years.

    7. Anxa*

      If you want to stay, can you find something outside of work to satisfy the itch? Something relevant to your field? Is there a way you can volunteer your time or skills that would would scratch it?

    8. Bess*

      Might be worth it to challenge yourself to stay in spite of the itch for a given amount of time, just to see what happens. I hugely sympathize with this and think it can sometimes be important to stay put a little longer, just to get yourself past it and figure out what’s driving it. I like a lot of variety and enjoy change (to a degree), and in the past have also had not-so-great jobs that had some big deal-breakers–so I’d jump into change after about 1.5-2 years of the same thing.

      It didn’t always dawn on me how much I was draining my energy by changing jobs, until I finally happened to stay at the same company for 4 years (different roles, though, so might not quite count). And I’m starting to see how much knowledge you can accumulate simply by being in the same company for a while…you learn people, you learn politics, you build a ton of context, you build a reputation, all of which becomes a huge asset.

      Might be interesting to make it a thing to NOT move, just as an experiment.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      I had a similar pattern.

      Several things to consider, because usually with stuff like this it is happening for more than one reason, that is why you can’t just shake it off.

      1) How are your personal life goals? Do you have some? Are they written down? Have you outlined the steps to get there? Life is the point and job is just a means of transportation through life. If we make our jobs our top focus we can become restless and dissatisfied in very short order. Because all of life is not answered in the work place. Look at your life. What changes do you want in place five years from now? Or any time period from now? I stayed at a job for over ten years because of personal goals that took a lot of time to finish. It also “helped” that the economy tanked in the middle of all that, it encouraged me to keep going at my job.

      2) Conflating learning a new job with learning new things. Maybe your actual need is to learn new things on the personal side of your life. How about doing a college course or something else? Here they offer pottery classes and blacksmithing classes. Sounds interesting to me.

      3) Aiming too low. Maybe you just need a job that offers more diversity or taps your skills harder than this one. Maybe you are taking jobs that you privately know fall short of your best abilities.

      4) Wrong type of job. Maybe you have been sitting a desk for eight years and where you really need to be is out in the forest as a forest ranger. I had a physical restlessness about me. If I had to sit at a desk, I would die. Finally I aged enough and exhausted myself enough so that I can sit at a desk. But that took almost 30 years.

      5) Change in expectations. I have come to think of work as a discipline. It takes self-discipline to keep showing up, knowing full well what I am showing up FOR. This is a form of strength. Just like building strong muscles it takes effort/determination to keep showing up for the same old thing everyday. Life goals can come in handy, “Three more paychecks and I can get a new car! Then I can pick my next life goal and start that!” Looking at work in things from a fresh perspective helps. I challenged myself to find ways to make the same old dull routine more interesting. In the process of doing that, I found liked troubleshooting. Give me a difficult problem, I can amuse myself for a few hours by trying to figure it out. Other times I challenged myself to find ways to streamline work or to help a coworker have a better day, I made up random challenges like this just to keep my mind from growing dull.

      Bottomline: I’d like to encourage you that this is happening for more than one reason. If you were truly dissatisfied with the job, then changing jobs could have resolved that dissatisfaction. However, since it did not it could be that your job changing is actually a costume/disguise for something else which is the real cause of your restlessness. And it COULD be that real cause has nothing to do with employment.

    10. Honeybee*

      I get the two-year itch pretty much everywhere I am. I’m a sensation-seeker; I love the shiny and new, and the two year mark is just about the time the newness fully wears off and I become part of the establishment. I’m actually almost there with my current job and I’m actually the most content I’ve ever been at this point in, but I can feel myself being – not bored, but not nearly as excited as I was when I started.

      For me it’s reinventing myself and trying to push myself to take on new projects and new roles. With my current job, that’s relatively easy, and I can challenge myself with the way I choose to execute a project or by taking on side projects that will help the business in some way. I’ve also had to talk myself into recognizing that re-organizations and some churn with coworkers is normal. (Something that bummed me out is our team lost a lot of great people not long after I was here. Many of them stayed within the company, but they moved to different teams within the company.)

  28. Trying (and failing) to have it all*

    I’m feeling rather overwhelmed. I’m a new mother — my daughter just turned 4 months this week — and a marketing manager for a small company with outsized goals. I took 6 weeks of disability, 4 weeks of part-time work from home, 4 weeks of full-time (2 days in office, 3 days home split with the husband who did 2 days home and 3 days at his office), and have been back full-time in the office for a couple weeks. I’m grateful my company was flexible but I feel way too integral to this machine, and I shouldn’t be. I like that I’m needed, but marketing functions nearly STOPPED while I was out, so I *had* to come back at 6 weeks or else risk my job not existing anymore. It meant I had to sign up for a ridiculous expensive daycare because they were the only ones with openings on such short notice. I love the daycare, but the financial aspect is putting real pressure on me as breadwinner to bring in more.

    I’ve been interviewing for other jobs. It’s been challenging. I’m the type of person people make exceptions for, and I always have been. I’ve had jobs offered to me on the spot. I’ve had jobs created for me, when I interviewed for an internship. I’m not saying this to brag, but saying this to set up how devastating this normal round of job searching has been for me: 2 companies have said no after an in-person, 1 company said no after a phone screen, 2 have left me hanging after a phone screen, and one is trying to schedule me for an in-person but is apparently fine with taking 1-2 weeks to do so despite knowing I’m talking to other people.

    I’m not expecting to be handed a job, I’m just struggling with this rejection rate (which at my level feels very personal, and it is: I have a proven record of getting it done and done well, so it’s down to personality fit) and finding identity as a working mother and trying so hard to keep it together in my current dysfunctional role.

    I guess what I’m asking is…

    Anyone have any advice for a new working mother on how to balance home, work, and career?

    1. Moira*

      I think it takes time! You haven’t been back that long and you’re adjusting to a huge life change. I wonder if that makes the job search success feel more fraught for you since there’s so much new stuff in your life? The first couple months after I returned to work, everything was sort of nuts as I worked out the new normal. Workwise, are you set on leaving, or is it possible to make yourself less integral/delegate some responsibilities? Practically re: balance — this is when we started getting groceries delivered. Having fewer chores like that to do was a huge help.

      1. Trying (and failing) to have it all*

        You’re right, I think, that since everything is changing and I have so little control over so much of it, it feels like the one thing I *should* have control over — namely, my job — being out of control is just too much. I only realized in hindsight how out of it I was for the first few weeks after it had been a month or two longer, so I can imagine with no real difficulty that I’ll be looking back on this period and wondering if I was insane.

        I am pretty set on leaving. This company has a definite, short runway and its current product will not, I believe, meet the performance demands the business needs of it. That would mean I’ll be out of a job regardless of how I feel about it by end of this year, early next. Regardless, there’s not much I can do to lessen my role as there are no peers or near-peers who can handle it. Part is just the consequence of being a small company with outsized goals, in that everyone is stretched. The second part is that the company undervalues marketing until it doesn’t have it (see: maternity leave, where I had to cut it short because they needed a certain number of new users and nothing they were doing was bringing any in) and there’s only me and one very junior associate handling all of it. We can and we have handled it, but it’s disgruntling to be so important and so undervalued at the same time.

        Good tip on the grocery delivery! I forget the perks of living in a major metro sometime.

    2. DuendeReal*

      Have you considered delaying job-searching a little while, or taking something else off your plate? Job-searching is nearly a full-time job in and of itself, and although I’m not a parent, I found it really challenging to juggle my current job with my job search last year. Can’t imagine how stressful it would be to be working, have a new baby, *and* be intensively job-searching. Also, don’t beat yourself up for not getting any offers yet…it’s normal for the process to take months, sometimes years. Be kind to yourself — this would be a tough situation for anyone, and you’re doing the best you can.

      1. Trying (and failing) to have it all*

        I went into this a little in my reply to Moira above, but the job situation needs resolving sooner rather than later. You aren’t kidding about it being a full-time job itself, though. I was really stressing out the week I had multiple phone screens, an in person, and a phone interview on TOP of being back at work full-time again!

        Thank you for the reminder about accepting that I’m human. :) If you can’t tell, I’ve been high achieving my whole life and it’s killing me that I’m hitting a wall where my “enough” isn’t “good enough” anymore.

    3. animaniactoo*

      Right now it sounds like you might need to consider options it doesn’t sound like you are. You put the daycare in place because it was all that was available, and while you love it/them, is it possible to continue to look for less expensive but still good and reliable childcare?

      Is it possible to change up your job so that you can do one day less of day care and would that make a difference in the day care cost? What about husband’s options on that front?

      1. Trying (and failing) to have it all*

        The trouble with the expensive daycare is it’s run like a private school. As such, we’re on the hook for a year of tuition which we pay on a monthly basis. Were we to pull out, we’d have to pay a portion of the remaining balance we owe. We do actually have a back up option that has an opening, but the opening isn’t until the end of August, our break fee with our current school would be close to $7k, and it would take until early 2018 for the savings to balance out the costs of moving.

        Unfortunately the part-time options for care aren’t appreciably cheaper. We have discussed husband becoming house husband but, ultimately, his sanity (and mine) depend on him working. I’m also the one bringing home 70% of our income so I definitely can’t leave work.

        In case it helps shape the picture, we’re in the SF Bay Area. Rents are high, daycare costs are high AND care is hard to secure, jobs are plentiful and pay well but also extremely demanding, etc.

        1. animaniactoo*

          I would take a harder look at moving to the other day care IF you feel that it really would suit your needs. 6-7 months break even on something that you’re probably going to be using for at least 3 years is a decent setup.

          And if it really made sense, it would lessen a lot of the stress on you in your job search not just to find another job, but to find another job with a particular price tag attached.

    4. Another Mom*

      I think your name says it all – sometimes it feels like we’re set up to fail when we try to have it all! I also just came back (to a disaster) after maternity leave, have my baby in daycare that is too expensive and am overworked and underappreciated in a career I loved previously. The only thing that’s helped me (while I search for new jobs …) is to focus 100% on being at work when I’m at work and focus 100% on being at home when I’m at home. I don’t check email outside of my work hours, but I’m also not constantly calling the daycare to check up on the baby while I’m at work. Before I made that commitment to myself, I felt like I was never doing my best at work or at home, which made me feel even worse! So I’d suggest drawing that boundary between “work” and “home” with a super thick black Sharpie. Good luck to you!!

      1. Trying (and failing) to have it all*

        That’s really good advice, and I think I need to take a hard look at it because the first thing that came to mind was “I would, but.” I had to stop myself there and recognize that’s not healthy – as you say, splitting energy like that makes everything less effective.

        Thank you – and good luck to you, too!

    5. SemiRetired*

      it sounds like your job search is more in the normal range this time and it stresses you out because you haven’t experienced it before. It may help to frame it in your head as normal, similar to AAM advice to let it go after the interview rather than perseverate on the possibilities. Have you ever really looked for a job before or have they mostly found you? It may be that a majority of rejections is standard when you are actively looking.

      1. Trying (and failing) to have it all*

        You’re right, it’s definitely stressful because it’s new to me. It’s a control thing, mostly, I imagine: I’ve gotten where I am because I am VERY good at taking control, and I really hate it when I’m not in control, and so much is out of my hands at this stage. The job search should have been and historically was something I had a great deal of control over, and that’s been wrested away from me at this critical point as well.

        I do regularly get contacted by recruiters rather than doing blind applications, and I have a mix of those this time around. Nothing in particular about this round has changed except that 1) I am in a more senior role, which comes down to whiffy subjective stuff over job ability; 2) I have this new kidthing and I’m sure my sleep deprivation is not doing my interview skills any favors.

        Thank you for the perspective check!

    6. Thinking out loud*

      This might be a long reply – I have lots of thoughts on this topic. My background, for what it’s worth: I have a four year old son. When he was born, I took five months off, and then we got a nanny. When he was about a year old, the nanny moved to another state and my husband chose to stay home with our son. I’m 25 weeks pregnant with a new baby, and I expect that my husband will continue to stay home with her. I did make more than my husband when he quit his job, but I would guess that it was more like a 55/45 or 60/40 split.

      My first thought is that entry-level jobs tend to be easier to get, where mid-level career jobs tend to be more difficult. So my guess is that you’re still awesome but you’re seeing a higher rejection rate that’s totally normal at this point in your career and feeling like it reflects on you – my guess is that it doesn’t. So please be patient if you’re really attached to getting a new job.

      Do you have the money to make the expensive child care work until you can transfer to something cheaper? (I think you said above that you have another option coming available in August, which really isn’t that long from now.) If your husband actively wants to stay home and that seems like an option that would help (or at least not hurt) from a financial standpoint, I’d recommend that you consider it – there are tons of great things about having a parent at home. But it’s REALLY HARD to be the stay at home parent, too, and if he doesn’t want to, I’d strongly encourage against having him do it. My guess is he’d end up miserable.

      Next – it feels like you don’t really want a new job at all. It sounds to me as if you are concerned about being able to afford the expensive day care because you had to go back to your job sooner than you were planning. Can you talk with your boss and see if working from home 3 or 4 days a week would be acceptable until August?

      In general, you will find that it’s REALLY HARD to compare yourself to the worker you were pre-mom and also compare yourself to the other moms you meet, many of whom (in my experience) are stay at home moms. You WILL believe that you’re bad at BOTH jobs (and maybe as a wife sometimes, too). Try not to let this stuff get to you – when you were splitting your time between two things (being a wife and a worker), you were good at both. Now you’re purposefully trying to do more – be kind to yourself. I try really hard to schedule my day and then focus on one thing – I get up early and go to work and try to focus on work while I’m there. When I’m hanging out with my son, I try to focus on him without checking work e-mails or reading the news on my phone (physically putting the phone somewhere else in the house helps with this), and after my son is in bed, I try to do chores and hang out with my husband.

    7. Emmie*

      Your bar for job changing is very high. I mean this very very kindly…. its – as you probably know – not realistic to find a job that meets your needs so quickly, and I am sorry. You’re at a place in your life where personality fit and other benefits are far more important than when you were earlier in your career. And it takes time to find the right fit. If your search has gone on some time without hits, it may make sense to revisit your resume. It might also help if you set a goal for yourself like “I’m going to apply for the four most interesting jobs I see this week and that’s it. I’ll knock my resume and cover letter out of the park the best I can.” At this point in your career, it sounds like you value more than a paycheck. It will come.
      I won’t pretend to know what it’s like to have a new baby and to be the breadwinner. It sounds like you have a few things with maximum stress and changes happening now. Whenever I go through those periods, it helps to have a few things on auto pilot like go-to work outfits, similar dinners. Maybe too revist all of your responsibilities with your husband. Figure out what a realistic division of responsibilities are. I’m a high achiever and tend to take on a lot of responsibilities. You might have those tendencies too. What can he do more of? If this applies to you: you probably do a lot of things very well …. accept that some things might be average. That’s totally fine. I’m still working on this. I call myself an average cook. It helps me lower my standards for cooking. I’m really rooting for you though all of this change / life evolution. You seem accepting about your job, and that’s super special.

  29. Excel Geek*

    I am hiring an entry level financial analyst and I need them to come in at a minimum excel skill level. Non-negotiable is being able to do vlookups and pivot tables as it is impossible to function without them in my department.
    I have devised a very simple test for candidates to take which involves both and should take under 5 minutes if you know what you’re doing.
    Is there anything I need to be concerned about with administering this as the last part of their interview? From a legal perspective or something else I may be missing? I have a slew of candidates coming in next week.

    1. Emily*

      There’s a company called IBM Kenexa that creates an Excel test for job candidates. I’ve taken it in the past for a temp position. Looking at that might help ensure that your test includes all the categories/areas of Excel you want the person to understand.

      You can Google their test and watch a sample on YouTube, it’s called Kenexa Prove It Tutorial.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5B_m4gNTVs

      1. tiny temping teapot*

        The downside to Kenexa is that every temp agency I’ve applied to and a few of the jobs use it. I’ve taken it enough times it’s not so much a great gauge of my Excel skills but how well I know Kenexa. Some of your applicants might be the same.

        Also, if I recall the test correctly, there’s only one vlookup question, so your test might be better. (I do great on Kenexa, vlookup is my huge weakness on excel.)

        1. Excel Geek*

          So googling Kenexa Prove It Test Excel brought up a bunch of people providing answers to the test- and interestingly can’t find a site where I could actually buy (I assume I have to buy) the test. That said, I have no budget for buying a test anyway.
          I am pretty confident the test I made up will show me if my candidate has the excel skills I need, but do I open myself up to any liability using it?

        2. AMT*

          My wife took one of those while applying to a job and it scored her wrong because she used keyboard shortcuts (or didn’t use them? I remember it being something ridiculous). This was during an easy task she obviously knew how to do. I’ve seen similar stories on the internet. If OP can do it in person with a real Excel spreadsheet, that would probably be best.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’ll second the recommendation for Prove It testing. The full Excel test includes vlookups and pivot tables.

    3. Ciscononymous*

      I think legally the only thing you might want to do is let candidates know that the test is coming in advance and to let you know if they need accommodations in order to take it.

      1. Excel Geek*

        Thanks! The recruiter let them know the test was coming, but good call about the accommodations!

    4. finman*

      I did one that included a handful of tasks that measured their level of excel competence for my financial analyst. It sealed the deal on one of the employees (every single thing I asked them to do was in their google search history). The person I hired was able to get through 85% of what I had asked.

  30. Kiki*

    People with multiple jobs– how do you balance the workload while still getting enough sleep?

    Due to a medical issue, my husband has had to stop working for the time being. My full time job’s income is not enough to provide for us both during this time, so I took on two part time positions. One I can do from home and just have to submit the work by the deadline, but the other is specific shifts on nights and weekends. I’ve been working these jobs for 3 months and I can tell my lack of sleep is impacting my work at my full time job. I’m groggy all the time and it’s hard to focus.

    Any advice on how to not let my quality of work suffer during this time?

    1. animaniactoo*

      What can you let slide in your personal life? Particularly something that feels more like a chore than a joy? Is there a balance where your husband can pick up more home life stuff for now?

      Currently my husband can’t work (really more like looking for work is an issue in his current condition) due to medical issues, and I haven’t done laundry or dishes in months. It helps a lot.

    2. Trying (and failing) to have it all*

      I find it helpful to be very, very clear about tasks and priorities. In that way, I’m able to identify areas that aren’t mission critical and, in times of stress, let those pass in favor of performing well on the items that ARE mission critical.

      I’m currently in the gauntlet for testing this (see my comment in this thread about it, but new mom, full-time job, job searching all at once) but it has helped me remove the emotion from being exhausted in the past.

    3. krysb*

      When I worked a heavy workload with multiple jobs, I worked at my job Monday – Friday, 4pm – midnight, in retail Wednesday – Friday, 8am – 2pm and Saturday & Sunday 3pm – midnight, and a third job Monday & Tuesday 9am – 2pm. Added to this was a long commute. I slept from around 2am until 7am.

      When my workload was lighter with multiple jobs, I worked my job Monday – Friday 8am to 4pm, in retail during weekdays from 6pm to 11pm and random hours on weekends. I was usually in bed around midnight-ish and woke up at around 5am because of the commutes.

      This is why I alarms do not wake me up anymore.

    4. Candy*

      I work two jobs (one fulltime 8 hrs/day 5 days/week and one on-call) and the best way to keep my sanity is that I only accept 4-hour shifts from my on-call work. Working that sixth or seventh day in a row is much easier if it’s just a quick 10-2pm shift and I still have the rest of my day to relax, see friends, do errands, etc. If the hours of your work-from-home job are flexible, maybe try working at it for just four hours at a time before taking a break for the day so you’re not doing a full 8 hours every day?

  31. BadPlanning*

    Last year, my job implemented a new review/goal system. I was reviewing my goals with my manager and there were a couple points where he commented, “Make this thing look more like teapots” when I previously had it looking like teapots and had changed it on previous comments to look like saucers.

    Fortunately, he’s the type of manager where I can just say, “Oh, I changed it based on your previous comments. I thought this is what you wanted” and he’s a good sport about it. Like, “Oh, well, I guess I meant teapots with some saucers, but not only saucers.”

    1. JulieBulie*

      I HATE that!!!!!

      “This should be red”
      “Make this blue”
      “Why is this blue? It should be red”

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I repeat back to them what they are saying. “So you are saying make this look like saucers, right?”
      Then when they tell me to make it look like teapots, I say, “I even double checked when you said saucers. Remember, I repeated it back to you so I could be sure to have it right. Now I am worried that I have accidentally wasted the company’s time on saucers.”

      I find it very discouraging to work this way. It makes me feel like my effort was a waste.

  32. Roseberriesmaybe*

    I asked a friend of mine, “Esme”, from my old job (retail) to informally recommend/ put in a good word for my partner at the job. My partner is currently working in retail and the hours/pay at my old job are better than what he’s getting now, so that’s why I asked Esme. I think Esme is offended?? I said she didn’t have to do it if she was uncomfortable with it, but she hasn’t texted me back to say yes or no. She hasn’t met my partner before (because of the sh1tty hours I mentioned…) but she knows of him, we’re in frequent contact anyway, and this is the first favour I’ve asked of her. What should I say to her? I didn’t mean to offend her if that is indeed what I did

    1. Sadsack*

      How can she put in a good word for someone she doesn’t know and has never worked with? What exactly would she say about him? She is probably wondering this herself. I’d just let this go. I wouldn’t be too worried about if she is offended or not. I wouldn’t be offended, just confused as to what I might be expected to say. Don’t ask again and don’t apologize, just let it go.

    2. fposte*

      Well, you don’t know if she’s offended or not, but I don’t think it’s fair to ask somebody to recommend a person they’ve never met; that would be her putting her professional reputation on the line for him, so she’s not likely to want to risk that with an unknown quantity. I would send her a text saying “Sorry, I realize I put you in a bad position there since you don’t know Bob. Please forget I asked.”

      And even if she feels like she could say no, it can be uncomfortable just to be asked. I wouldn’t do it unless I was pretty sure the person would be comfortable with it–which pretty much means people your partner knows well enough to ask himself.

    3. roseberriesmaybe*

      I should clarify that it is a thing that frequently happened in my old job when they are looking for temporary staff for the summer months, people mentioning that their sister/friend/friend’s mother’s niece was applying. If I thought it was going to jeopardise Esme’s position or standing in any way, I would not have asked her! I do see how the question might have made it uncomfortable for her to refuse to me though

      1. Honeybee*

        I don’t think it matters. I mean, it depends on the job, but if I said to my manager or a team member hiring someone “Hey, my friend’s husband is applying to the Teapot Maker position,” their next question is going to be “Oh, what do you know about them? Experience, credentials, are they a good fit for the job?” If my response is “Oh, I don’t know them at all, I just wanted to mention it,” my teammate is at best going to think I’m kind of strange. Connections and networking really only works if you personally know/have met the person.

        I have even mentioned people I didn’t know all that well but who I have met and at least talked to in person – from the standpoint of “I don’t know this person’s work style or ethic, but their qualifications seem to match the role we’re looking for and they seemed to be a normal/lovely human being.” But I can’t imagine simply mentioning someone I had never even met and that carrying any sort of weight in the process.

    4. Ciscononymous*

      I agree that the discomfort probably stems from not having met him. She can’t speak to his work ethic, reliability or really anything else that a manager would want to know, and so she might be worried about getting asked these follow-up questions and having to say, “Oh, I don’t actually know Mr. Roseberries…”
      I mentioned at my first job that my sister was going to apply there and the first thing they asked was “Does she work as well as you do?” Definitely put me on the spot.

  33. Raise Reservations*

    I have a performance review next week which I am both excited an nervous about. I’ve taken on a lot of new projects, and excelled so I am expecting it to go well. Since my role has expanded so rapidly over the past year, I’m planning on asking for a pretty substantial raise, about 20%. I’ve done research into similar jobs and what they pay and this is actually the lower end of the market rate, and even though I know I deserve this salary range I still feel a little crazy for asking. Am I crazy? I’ve read a lot of the articles here about negotiating salary, and I know I have the results to back it up, but I’m a little worried about looking out of touch. Does anyone have any advice, or success stories to share in negotiating large raises?

    1. IT_Guy*

      The amount that you are wanting is more in the line of what _could_ be offered in a promotion. Most companies don’t do that large of raises.

      Good luck though!

    2. Rosamond*

      If your job has really changed so much that it’s a different and more senior role, I’d say you could try, but know that 20% is the high end of what’s likely. If your performance is great and you’ve taken on additional responsibilities, but you’re still doing essentially the same job, then 20% is probably out of the range – 10% would be high.

    3. Workitywork*

      I successfully negotiated a 20% raise. It was after covering for my boss for a month and going over the tasks I had accomplished. She was like, is there anything else? I said, yeah I’m being paid incredibly undermarket. I asked for a 30% raise. She said she’d see what she could do, but that she had never seen raises that high although I deserved it. It took months of research and rewriting my job description to match what I actually do. I had been a high performer for a year and a half before that.

  34. costume teapot*

    How long is too long to work in a tangentially related field? (As in, what I’m doing now is fully a part of my intended career path in which I have a degree and license, but my career path is not fully what I am doing now.)

  35. JustaTech*

    How many times can you reach out to a potential networking contact? Someone you don’t know directly but you’ve been connected to by a mutual acquaintance? Is it only once, or if they don’t get back to you can you give it a month or two and try again?

    1. costume teapot*

      I’d follow up once if they don’t answer and then drop it. Sometimes emails get hectic and it’s OK to reach out and say “Hey, wanted to make sure this didn’t slip by you but if you’re too busy I understand.”

  36. Anon, obvs.*

    How do you screw your attention to the sticking place, and keep doing good, conscientious, detail-oriented work when your heart’s not in it, but you’re too close to burn-out to have the energy for a job search?

    1. Emi.*

      I find it helpful to schedule breaks into my day, and get tea and do something else for a bit. Maybe breathing exercises? I’m sorry, that sucks.

    2. animaniactoo*

      Figure out how you can reward yourself for powering through. Is it a dedicated block of guilty-pleasure tv watching this weekend? Is it making plans to meet up with someone? Is it an extra cookie? What can you give yourself in return?

      Also, examine your work process – is there a way that you can change it up to build in some breather breaks as small rewards and then being able to pick back up with renewed focus? Is it worthwhile to tackle a harder task first while you’re fresh, and then it won’t feel so onerous to go ahead and complete an easier task after?

      1. Anon, obvs.*

        I’m probably taking too many breaks. I’ll admit it’s hard to tear myself away from the news feed these days. I’m definitely distracted, and that’s contributing to small, stupid errors. But when I shut down the distractions, I’m left with… THIS is what I’m doing with my life!? On the other hand, we have damned fine health insurance, so…

        1. animaniactoo*

          Tell me if this sounds crazy: You pick up a cause or goal outside of work and start to actively work on that a half hour a day/one day a week/whatever works. And can then see the job and the mundane work as the thing that funds your ability to do the other?

          1. Anon, obvs.*

            Great suggestion. It’s true, when I’ve had a big creative project going outside of work, it’s been easier to roll with the punches. Time to dust off the old novel?

            1. SwitchyWitchy*

              I now picture you as that guy from Rick and Morty, the guy in the lighthouse in the Purge episode.

              “as long as you listen to my tale.”

    3. NaoNao*

      Any way to focus on the people you’ll be helping with your work, even if it’s just colleagues?
      Another tip I find helpful is to make to-do lists, even very small ones. Checking off lists feels great.
      If you can listen to music, save new/favorite playlists for the work or the hardest tasks.
      Give yourself rewards—small food treats, browsing a fave site, a quick walk outdoors in the sun, a chat with a fave colleague.

      1. Anon, obvs.*

        Yeah, when I’m helping a colleague, I’m THERE. Right now my manager is someone who… leaves me to come up with my own motivations. But (as is her right) points out any errors.

    4. OtterB*

      I’ve been having ongoing problems with focus/procastination issues.The Pomodoro technique seems to be working well for me. You set a timer and work intensively for some amount of time (the classic is 20 minutes – I find that’s too short for me but 30 to 40 is usually about right) and then take a short break. (I use that to stretch, maybe go get a glass of water, check personal email or something else online.) Then start in on the next work/break cycle. There’s something about knowing that I’m working for a set, not too long, amount of time that focuses me on getting as much done in that time as I can.

    5. Beancounter Eric*

      A good cup of tea to start.

      Do you have some leave available? Take a break, get away from work, and don’t even think about the place, finding new job, etc. Get out of town if the situation permits.

      I also second the other comments.

      1. Anon, obvs.*

        I’ve been joking that I need 2 months in a monastery. Yesterday, actually, I took a first step and did a 4 hour “silent retreat.” It was WONDERFUL. More more more.

    6. writelhd*

      Sometimes it’s just time to cash in the vacation hours and go somewhere fun and cool. That dosen’t solve the long term but it can really help.

    7. curmudgeon*

      me too.
      I start a task, get a phone call and have to do something else. On my way to do that, something else is thrown my way that I have to deal with that moment, and then the phone rings again and I have to take care of that (my job involves answering the phones so I can’t ignore it). Then as I’m starting to do the thing I started doing at the beginning of my day, something else has to be dealt with and I still can’t get back to the one thing I needed to do today.
      Then in my review I get blasted for time management failure & lack of efficiency & failure to get projects to other departments in a timely manner. At one point I was assigned to do 3 different things in literally 3 different places all at the same time. Any time I’ve pointed out this problem, I’m told that I need to get it done.

      No wonder I’m contemplating a nervous breakdown…..

  37. MLiz*

    I would like to have some input/opinions on job hopping.

    My situation is thus, I’ve been freelancing all through university and have been keeping it up until now; it’s very low key, but it keeps me in contact with people and it keeps up a skillset that’s useful (my CV reflects over a decade of this). I also had a contract when and where I got my PhD, it is however very obvious that the PhD is connected to the position, and also super common in my field (almost 4 years).

    I was recently laid off due to extreme downsizing, and I was in that position (my first after grad school) less than a year. My CV reflects that it was a layoff.

    While I can afford to be unemployed (in my field) for a little while, I’d rather keep the time to a minimum, maybe a month or two. The problem is that the market isn’t really offering what I want right now, and even though I’m working with a recruiter, the offers are, especially location and money wise, not what I want. Fall/winter is a better time to look for a job in what I do because of budgetary reasons.

    Now my question, would it look very bad, in a job-hoppy sort of sense, to take a position relatively quickly but keep looking for something in a location and salary bracket that is better for me? I don’t want to scare any potential employers off by such short stays in positions, but I also don’t want to be stuck where I’m unhappy. Or should I bite the bullet and take a position for 2 years and bide my time? I already turned down one place for a second interview because the first round was 2 h of stress questions (ONLY stress questions, starting with tearing apart my CV from the time I was in secondary school!) and the first thing out of anyone’s mouth about the position was “we work a lot”; I made it through a very rough PhD that gave me anxiety and PTSD-like symptoms, and while I’m aware that every job on that level has a stressful component, I don’t need to go into this wide-eyed stupid.

    (Every job I take includes a move, since I don’t want to move house completely due to expenses so often, I’d probably try to find something furnished and sublet my current apartment.)

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      You mentioned that you were freelancing you got laid off at some point, but it’s a bit unclear to me what your job history looks like right now. There’s nothing wrong with job-hopping if you do it once.

      In other words, does it look like this?
      4 years doing some contract work related to PhD
      1 year at whatever job you’re about to get that you’ll leave for something better

      If so, I wouldn’t stress about it, as long as the job you leave the 1-year job for you end up staying at for at least 3 years.

      1. MLiz*

        Work history looks like this:

        10 years freelancing
        4 years PhD contract work
        <1 year Job (laid off)

        searching now (still doing freelancing to be able to pay what doesn't come from the emergency fund, but rent+food is no issue for a little while) and this is the one I'd leave for something better. My worry is the <1 year and then whatever job I'll get.

        Thanks for your input :)

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Honestly, that doesn’t look bad at all. You get one free pass (the <1 year job you got laid off from) on your résumé, so as long as you stay at your next job for 3+ years, you should be good going forward.

          1. Natalie*

            IMO they’ve used zero of their free passes. “Job hopping” isn’t any short tenure regardless of context – it’s a pattern of voluntarily leaving long term gigs after a short period of time. Leaving through no fault of one’s own (layoff, company closed) and jobs that were meant to be short term don’t count.

            1. Anonymous Educator*

              Whether something “counts” or not is up to the hiring manager, not necessarily logic. Many hiring managers bring their own unconscious biases and prejudices into play in selecting résumés, whether what their judgments make sense or not.

              Leaving through no fault of your own shouldn’t be any reflection on you as a candidate, but it often can be.

              And, yes, it’s a free pass if it’s only once and not a pattern—that was my point. If you have three consecutive jobs that were all one-year stints, many employers aren’t going to care whether those were layoffs or voluntary departures.

              1. MLiz*

                Hm yes, I do see your point.

                I will take it into account for sure, I’ll need to see what I can do. Very common is also to be the maternity replacement (usually 1 year here), but they can’t always keep you on. Of course it would be weird to have a string of this with different companies in different locations, especially since it usually takes a good while to get a good overview.

                This layoff is so annoying.

              2. Natalie*

                I don’t think it’s common to hold layoffs against people, even if you do have several in a row. That said, this may be field dependent – I know a lot of people in fields where layoffs are routine, so it would be literally impossible to hold it against a candidate.

                Regardless, even if it’s possible that a hiring manager will hold a layoff against a person, I don’t think it’s a useful thing to worry about since it’s 100% out of the employee’s control.

                1. MLiz*

                  It’s not necessarily routine in my field, but IF it happens, then it happens big and there’s absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. It’s uncommon enough that I will be asked about it in interviews for sure, but I’m not in a position to know what was the reason and who did what wrong to cause this or what have you.

    2. Natalie*

      I think it depends on whether or not the immediate position is in your field or not.

      If you take an out-of-field job (retail, warehouse, temping, whatever), you probably don’t need to explain why you are still looking for something in your field. Most people will understand you took WhateverJob to pay the bills. (Even if you don’t strictly need it to pay the bills, they’ll just assume that’s why.)

      It’s far less understandable if you’re thinking of taking the first Teapots job you get offered and then continuing to look for a better Teapots job. “This job is fine but kind of blah so I’m not giving it a chance” it not a very compelling reason to keep your job search active and will make you look flighty and not terribly reliable to the next employer. Usually when people look immediately or soon after taking a job, it’s becaue of something a bit more extreme than “I can do better”.

      1. MLiz*

        Yes, this is precisely what I’m a bit worried about. The point is, I don’t want to (semi-)permanently move to the other end of the country for family reasons, and at a way below market salary to boot – which is basically the only stuff on the market now in regards to Teapot jobs.

        Thanks for your input, I will definitely take it into consideration before deciding anything.

        1. Natalie*

          In your original question you said “I also don’t want to be stuck where I’m unhappy.” Can you elaborate a little more on where you’d be stuck? I can’t tell if you’re worried about having a job you don’t like, living in a location you don’t like, or having an undermarket salary – or some combination of the above.

          1. MLiz*

            Mostly some combination of the above, but I’m mostly concerned about location to be honest. (The relative job-I-might-hate thing is a holdover from PhD times, which was a world of misery.)

            Location is a huge thing for me though, as I have an ageing parent and a partner I don’t live with, and honestly don’t want to be stuck 5 h or more away for the week, only to have to travel until late Friday night and then leave at some point Sunday afternoon, especially not for several years. I can’t uproot either of them right now for various health and work reasons. Also I was miserable in the city LayoffJob was in, and there I could shuffle my hours so I could be home twice a week (and the weekend), so I know location is a huge factor for me.

            Salary is a concern but a lesser one, since I live very small and can afford to be paid under market for a couple more years if I have to. Sure, getting market value would be nice, but it is a lesser requirement.

  38. LadyofShalott*

    I am 24 weeks pregnant and starting to get serious about whether or not I’ll return to work after my baby is born. The company I work for offers six weeks of paid leave which is standard for our industry. My husband will get 12 weeks paid leave from his company because they rock. Lol.

    My issue is this: my manager has been subtly trying to find out if I am coming back to work after having the baby. I’m honestly not sure what I’m going to do but have been leaning towards coming back because I like my job. However, my company has a new owner and his changes will very negatively change my work life balance. I’m now leaning towards not coming back but haven’t made up my mind.

    My parents have said that I need to tell my manager that I’m changing my mind about coming back to work. My partner and I don’t think that is a good idea but they have been so vehement that I’m starting to doubt myself.

    1. animaniactoo*

      You don’t say a word until you have a definitive answer to the question. If they tell you they have a deadline by which they need an answer, then your time for figuring out the answer is over and you have to pick a side.

      But otherwise – no. Not a word. The strong likelihood is that decisions will be made that will cut off options for you that you are still trying to leave open for yourself while you figure it out. You don’t want to start that process until you know for sure what you want to do.

      1. animaniactoo*

        However, you CAN raise concerns now about how the new owner’s changes will affect the work/life balance and the difficulties that you might have dealing with them and seeing if there are accommodations that could be made, if not permanently then for some period after you return to work, to see if staying is feasible, etc.

        So you’d be broaching it as a conversation about your issues with their changes rather than the change in your life.

    2. Trying (and failing) to have it all*

      No.

      Do not count yourself out before you’re out. You are not ready to commit to a change, so don’t commit to a change. I would consider this exactly the same as a job search: you don’t know if you’re going to get that job (stay at home mom), so your office really doesn’t need to know about it before you decide.

    3. Alice*

      Congratulations! I’d tell the truth as it is now —
      Q Are you going to come back?
      A I am planning to come back.
      If your plans change later, they change. Right now, you are planning to come back.

      1. k*

        This this and this. If you change your mind later and they accuse you of lying or ask why you said you were coming back: “At the time I was planning on returning. Since then circumstances have changed and I’ve decided that I will not be returning following my maternity leave. I’ll be available until X date. Here are my ideas on a transition plan…”

    4. Biff*

      I think your parents are wrong. I think it’s perfectly normal to say “well, right now, I think the default plan is to return to work after maternity leave.” Because it is your default plan. Plans can change.

    5. Liane*

      Congratulations on the baby!
      I recall reading a question like that a few weeks ago, for a woman close to her due date, but not sure if it was a recent one or something I ma across in the archives. Either way, try the site search.
      As best I remember, her advice included not saying anything until you were absolutely sure you wouldn’t return, no matter what.
      She also suggested not doing so before the delivery. Certainly not if your insurance is tied to your job and you couldn’t afford COBRA or get on your husband’s coverage. (Not in insurance or benefits, so no idea if spouse voluntarily leaving a job is one of those circumstances where you can change coverage outside of open enrollment.)
      But there’s another important reason. People change their minds about lots of Big Things. There are women who have been **certain** all through pregnancy, maybe even their entire adult life, that they wouldn’t return to work after having a baby–but find within months/weeks that it doesn’t work for them for whatever reason. Conversely, some women realize after the birth that they want/need to stay home. So wait and see how it goes after you have the baby, and not *right* after. Give it time.

      1. Natalie*

        A spouse losing coverage eligibility for any reason is a qualifying event, even if it’s voluntarily leaving a job.

      2. Colette*

        Totally agree. I have a friend who was going to stay home and homeschool her kids – until her first one was born. She found it really tough and went back to work as soon as she could.

    6. HisGirlFriday*

      As Alison has said here previously, parents are banned from giving job advice.

      You do not need to tell your manager anything until you are ready. You may change your mind between now and then. You may change your mind several times between now and then.

      When I was pregnant (last year), I started out convinced I wasn’t coming back to work, then I was sure I was going to want to come back. I went out on maternity leave, had my daughter, and was convinced I could never go back to work EVER because OMG BABY BABY BABY. After a few weeks, I was ready to go back to work because I missed what I do. Toward the end of my maternity leave, I wasn’t ready to go back (but I did), and I’m glad I did.

      When you know for 100% certain what you’re doing, THAT’S when you tell your boss. Not before.

  39. The Sports Reporters*

    TL;DR – How would you deal with possible sexism from people outside your industry?

    Background: My husband works full-time at a radio station as the sports director while I work there part time as a sports producer. (Fancy term of me being the one back at the studio operating the broadcast board while he’s out in the field doing play-by-play for HS sports) In the past year and a half, I’ve been going out either more with him to help cover larger events, such as state meets, or out by myself to cover something because “things” are happening at the same time at several different sites.

    Two things have happened in the past three months, one last night, that now makes me question whether I’m dealing with some sexism. I was along for the state wrestling meet a couple of months ago, and was taking pictures matside to post on the station’s website and use in social media. I’m only using my phone (no budget for a fancy camera) but I have a credential around my neck, and I’m knelt down by the mat farthest from the media entrance. In the middle of the match, an official pokes me in the shoulder, hard, just about where you would perform the Vulcan neck pinch/grip. I look up and start hearing him ask if I had a credential. Slightly incredulous, I held up my badge, and he replies “Oh, sorry. Didn’t see it.”

    Now, just last night, both the husband and I were at a state qualifying track meet. A new twist this year is now the radio station has sponsors for a daily video package showing area competitors at the state track meet. I’ll be the one shooting video, but it’s been a few years, so I was out practicing with the camera. No credentials, the ticket takers just waved us through for this meet. I’m on the infield, standing next to the husband, camera in hand, and once again I’m approached by a school official, asking if I’m a mom. (As in, mom of competitor) *sigh* No, I’m media. This actually upset my husband. “Did he ask the guy with the [Insert local HS] t-shirt on if he was a dad?” (Said t-shirt guy had a long-lensed camera, so he probably looked more official)

    So if something like this happens again, and my brain actually registers it as slightly sexist, do I say something in the moment to that person? Let an official know? Roll my eyes once again to people not understanding I’m a female that not only “gets” sports, but also “gets” sports broadcasting?

    1. Alice*

      It sounds frustrating. But it sounds like the assumption might be “this person without professional camera equipment is probably not a journalist” (instead of “this person who is a woman is probably not a journalist”).

      Now, the official poking you — I’d have a big problem with that. Whether someone’s a journalist or not, there’s no reason to poke people!

      1. Chaordic One*

        It’s the Vulcan neck grip in the first scenario that I think is sexist. I can’t believe he’d grab a man like that.

    2. Emi.*

      I don’t think you really have anything reportable-as-sexism, unless the same official questions you repeatedly and not any of the men. But you could go to a higher-up official and say that their people keep treating you like a parent when you’re media, so they should implement some kind of “don’t Vulcan-neck-poke the photographer” training. (Actually, they shouldn’t Vulcan-neck-poke the mothers, either, so you should probably point that out too.)

      If you want to be left alone, could you get t-shirts that say “WTPT Teapots Broadcasting” in big letters, or something?

      1. The Sports Reporters*

        I do have a polo, but only one. (Didn’t wear it last night because of being at other part time job earlier that day. Plus, at the time, I was wearing a jacket)

        Pokey guy got me day 2 of the wrestling meet, and I believe I wore the polo day 1. (The meet is held far enough out of town that we stay in a hotel, so no laundry) I’m wary to ask for another/more because we’re looking to change jobs very soon.

        I know the official last night was trying to do his job, and I’m sure they’ve had their fair share of parents try to get where they shouldn’t be…believe me. Probably the combination of me just wanting to roll my eyes, plus my husband’s reaction tainted my view.

        1. Wheezy Weasel*

          Armband credential holders might be useful. I see these on airport baggage handlers and photogs at major sporting events, and they should be visible without the security team having to visually search around people’s front/waist area. As someone that had that job in the past, it’s difficult to do this discreetly and even more difficult to challenge people to visually display their credentials when their outfit might be obscuring it, or they have camera gear on their neck that interferes with the creds.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Meh… No, not specifically I don’t think. Regarding the camera/mom thing, I’d have to think this actually happens all the time and they’re used to having to remove parents from the field (plus as you said other guy had professional camera). Poking official, no, that is not cool to poke people, but I don’t really read it as being overly sexist.
      I think what might help you is to keep your press pass highly visible somewhere like a hat, lanyard, etc. and yes, perhaps have a more professional equipment setup other than a phone. Even a normal camera with a tripod carries more weight because you will then generally be questioned BEFORE you enter. Also, I think as you do this more, the officials might get to know who you are and you will be questioned less often.

    4. Ashley*

      I find company branded clothing / jackets help. When you do have credentials you could have them on your back when you are going in for photos maybe to be overly obvious.

    6. Princess Carolyn*

      I’ve worked a bit in sports journalism and my call is this: You’re probably dealing with inadvertent sexism. These folks have a preconceived notion about what a sports journalist looks like, and you don’t match it. But if they’re not giving you any guff when they realize you are media, you probably need to let it go. Your feelings are still valid, but I don’t think the situation is actionable until you’ve had trouble with the same person more than once, or until you get some blowback even after making it apparent that you’re media.

      I suspect you’re not the only journalist using an iPhone these days, but there really isn’t much to distinguish you from a parent when you don’t have fancy equipment (though I swear some parents have nicer cameras than media now!).

      I also take issue with the poking, though. wtf

    7. Student*

      What different outcome do you want from these encounters?

      If you are looking to counter the sexism, explaining calmly that you are a member of the media is the best thing you can do. It’s a polite but very clear message; it avoids setting them up to be defensive (so they might accept the new information instead of rejecting it) and allows you to do your job effectively.

      If you want to vent by telling them they are jerks and you resent the sexist assumptions baked into their questions, that’s your right, but I personally doubt that will (1) make the questioners re-evaluate their outlook (2) actually make you feel better to get off your chest. I think you’re probably better off grumbling about it to your husband and other colleagues and friends to vent effectively, or tell it as a funny story to others later if it makes good material. You are risking blow-back for very little gain by being more confrontational when the incident isn’t actually impeding your job; you can’t control or predict how the other person is going to respond and I think most responses you get will not make you feel better. By all means, get louder and meaner if someone undermines you or actually tries to remove you, though, where there is a clear reward for the risks of unpredictable public responses.

    8. KR*

      I’ve often found that women in low-budget media are treated like this. I used to oversee public access and government TV channels. Often I was asked if this were a school project, if I was doing this for fun, if I was an employee or if this was a club, ect – with a camera crew reporting to me, uniforms, reasonably expensive camcorders, tripods, and various audio equipment that the average Jane wouldn’t have hanging around her house. People wouldn’t treat me with the same level of professionalism and courtesy that they would treat me boss. It was frustrating. I would keep it polite and breezy -“No, I’m a member of the media.” “Actually, I’m here with [Radio Station] covering the match.” but ice them out a little – don’t answer a lot of questions, don’t feel obligated to prove that you’re a member of the media, don’t say “It’s okay.” if they apologize, and quickly return back to what you’re doing when they bother you. That usually worked for me to convey that they kind of p!ssed me off without being rude or confrontational.

    9. Thlayli*

      honestly i think it’s “fancy camera-ism” rather than sexism. If I saw someone taking photos with a phone I would assume they were a spectator /parent not a reporter. And if I saw someone taking photos with a fancy camera right up close to the ring I would assume they were a reporter. Gender wouldn’t come into it at all.

      The badge probably wasn’t visible in the angle you were at beside the ring so you probably did just look like a spectator out of bounds. That doesn’t excuse the guy being violent to you without even asking you if you had permission, but I don’t see any reason to assume he would have been less violent to someone who looked like a male spectator who was out of bounds.

      Exact same thing on the infield – the official was assuming you were a spectator out of bounds and assuming the guy with the professional camera was a professional.

      If you are looking for scripts to use I would tend towards “my company is too cheap to pay for a professional camera so I just look like an over eager spectator but what can you do *roll eyes*”, rather than bringing sexism into it.

      1. Thlayli*

        And I second the idea of getting a cheap over vest with company name emblazoned on it.

  40. not really a lurker anymore*

    My spouse resigned on Monday. The big boss and the grandboss were talking so he walked in, closed the door and resigned. 2+ hours later, he left the room agreeing to stay. The first 30 minutes or so, my spouse was steadfast in “My last day will be X” and they switched gears. Started talking about problems, concerns, issues, etc. After 90 minutes of that, they reached a deal where my spouse is staying. New job title, big salary boost and a bigger retention bonus.

    My spouse is convinced that the company will not eliminate him, fire him or replace him. I’m not so sure myself.

    What signs should we be watching for/may be apparent about this relationship going south?

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I think it’s hard to say given what information we have. What happened in those 90 minutes? What was the agreement?

      That said, in general, Alison advises (and I and many others agree with her) that it’s generally not a good idea to accept a counter-offer, precisely because of the concerns you brought up. Even if they fight to keep him now, they may not fight to keep him if they’re looking to do layoffs at some point or if someone else comes up who may be a good candidate for the position, because they knew at some point he was willing to leave. That may not seem fair, but that’s likely the truth.

      1. not really a lurker anymore*

        It’s a smallish company, under 100 people. He’s the only person currently employed there capable of doing what he does. Replacing him would not be easy, cheap or something they would be able to do quietly/without him being aware. He’s also a long term employee; due to a variety of circumstances, him resigning (or being fired/laid off) would probably start a quiet job search/exodus.

        The conversation covered a LOT. From what he told me, they discussed and resolved a lot of his concerns and problems. The agreement was in writing. The big boss took notes and circled back to review some of the topics they covered. He feels heard and valued. And yeah, the question of “why didn’t you do this before we got to this point?” came up and was addressed to his satisfaction.

        He’s positive the company will not show him the door. I think he’s safe for a minimum of 18 months, due to the current projects he’s working on now and a few in the pipeline.

    3. Cookie*

      If you felt ready to move on, that means you should listen to your intuition and move on. Moreover, all those things they gave him (title, raise, etc.), why didn’t they give those prior to threatening to quit? Is this the only way they’ll ever fix problems, if someone threatens to quit. It’s time for him to move on.

    4. Book Lover*

      Was he resigning because he had accepted another job offer? Did he blow up his reputation with another company?

      I guess the question is whether this is a company where promotions always come through threatening to leave and it has worked out fine for others, or whether they are using this as a temporizing measure while they look for someone to replace him. He’d be the best person to know the answer to that, I think?

      Also, if he really wants to leave, he can just email them and say that he felt uncomfortable with the pressure in person, but on consideration, he is leaving and his last day is –.

  41. Your Weird Uncle*

    I have a coworker who is constantly trying to take over my job. She inherited the title ‘teapot manager’ when our predecessor left, as she (the predecessor) was doing both teapot design and teapot sales. So when I came on board, I was specifically hired for the sales portion while the coworker trying to take over my job, who was an internal hire, retained the ‘teapot manager’ title, but strictly took over the teapot design portion. So, we are both doing equal and mostly separate jobs, but she retained the (informal) manager title. She doesn’t manage people, she manages the process of teapot design.

    I find myself pushing back on her about once a month, asking her directly to stop doing my work. I’ve worked with our manager, who has spoken to her about it. When this happens, she holds back for a while and then something else comes up and I find myself having to have this conversation with her all over again. To make matters worse, she’s been in various roles around the department and people will email or call her directly (I think they think she’s the go-to as her title has the word ‘manager’ in it), and instead of diverting people to me she will either answer questions which relate directly to my job or just pass the information along to me. I’ve asked her MULTIPLE times to direct people to me, and the next time it comes up, it happens again. I’m at my wit’s end! It’s getting to the BEC stage and I’m finding it more difficult to control my temper every time it happens. I want to be a team player and work together, but it’s really difficult when I feel like I’m constantly being undermined. Any advice?

      1. Your Weird Uncle*

        Yes! Although that was when I started, which was about a year and a half ago. I think my folks forget or can’t be bothered to get it right, and her not redirecting them to me only just muddles things. We are very slow to change.

        External folks don’t help either. For instance, she was contacted by an external vendor who has worked with me many, many times in the past. I am pretty sure he looked up our directory and saw, ‘Oh, Teapot Manager, yes, I’ll go with her’. I saw absolute red when she passed his message along to me (both because he should have known to contact me, and also because I suspect she relishes being the one to ‘pass along’ work and advice about how to do my own job). I did ask him to contact me for all teapot sales issues in future, but I simply can’t proactively reach out to every single person who might get in touch with her instead, unfortunately. :(

        I am going to speak to our departmental manager to ask about a title change – I don’t want to downgrade her title, but I’d like us both to have titles that speak more clearly to what roles we each have. I’m not sure how well that’s going to go over.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      One thing I have found helpful is to say, “We have talked about X. You said no more X. And now X is happening again. Why.”

      Sometimes people respond to this conversation, where they would not respond to anything else.

  42. Orange*

    Should I take 2 demanding jobs over the summer for the experience?

    I’m in the summer between my junior and senior year of undergrad. Just finished up my first (unpaid) internship, and they’ve offered to hire me as an independent contractor if the budget allows for it. I’ve also been offered an on-campus summer job. I’m wondering if I should take both, if possible?

    The contracting with my internship company will allow me to work on highly publicly visible projects and expand on the work I’ve already done, which I think I’ll enjoy. It’ll also make for an impressive resume piece, to say that my unpaid internship ended so well they decided to pay me to keep working. I think it also shows initiative, because it requires real investment in the work I’ve done to keep going.

    The on-campus job is just for the summer, but they said they’d keep me longer if they like me. It would pay a third of what the contracting job would, but I’d have the opportunity to network with an entirely new group of people and get experience in a new office. The work would be good technical experience, but would also be repetitive and less creative.

    Assuming internship people have it in the budget to contract me, I wouldn’t start for at least a month, so if I took both jobs, they’d overlap for only about 2 months, because summer campus job starts immediately. Pros: I’d get lots of experience & money. Cons: I would be working 50+ hours a week, have no true summer vacation, and be absolutely exhausted, just like I was this past semester between school and interning.

    Thoughts? I told the summer campus job people I’d get back to them by Tuesday, which is when I think I’ll know for sure if there’s enough money to contract me at my internship.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I wouldn’t. I would take one of the jobs, but not both. Your semester was exhausting and stressful, and who’s to say your next semester won’t be as well? Give yourself a little break over the summer so that you can come back to your studies with energy and focus.

    2. EmilyG*

      I find that periods of exhausting effort usually have big payoffs, but I know that’s not for everyone.

      Do these jobs have schedules that overlap at all? Would the bosses reasonably assume that you only have the job at their organization? You don’t want to accept both and then find that you’re making excuses about your availability and inconveniencing either employer in a way they didn’t expect.

    3. Lissa*

      I would personally do it, but I think this is about your tolerance for 50+ hour workweeks especially during what you thought would be a summer vacation. You know yourself best and if you think your work would suffer at either/both jobs, then it’s probably not a good idea. But for a short term thing there are some major pros, so I would go for it.

    4. 1 Year Out*

      Don’t do both, especially right before your senior year. Senior year is so stressful and important, you don’t want to go into it already burned out. I would stick with the job at your internship for the reasons you listed above, it will look great on your resume and produce a great reference when you go job searching.
      I can speak from experience this will burn you out. In the summer between my freshman and sophomore years i worked as a waitress, and a early morning stock person at a big box store in addition to taking 2 classes at my community college. I was constantly exhausted from the crazy schedule and had a hard time at the start of my sophomore year. If you can get by on the money from the internship job, stick with it. Good luck!

    5. CrazyEngineerGirl*

      I probably wouldn’t do it. But I’d likely want to do the internship and not the campus job because it sounds like more relevant work, but since you don’t know if they have money to hire you yet that may not be feasible.

      Tbh, the BIGGEST reason I wouldn’t do it? This is your last summer vacation. Seriously. Once you’re done with school and are working full time, that’s it. You’ll never get a summer vacation like a school summer vacation ever again. I miss them so very, very much.

    6. justsomeone*

      Take the paid, off campus contract. Don’t do both. I worked crazy hours my final summer before graduation and I regret it immensely. It’s your last opportunity to enjoy a semi-open summer before you jump headlong into the working world where (unless you work somewhere INCREDIBLY flexible) you’ll never get summers off again. (It doesn’t sound like you’re going to be a teacher.)

      Enjoy that freedom and flexibility while you have it. There are plenty of years ahead of you for 50+hr weeks.

    8. Soon-to-be former student*

      First off, congratulations on impressing both of these opportunities–it sounds like you really have it together. I hope that maybe I can contribute because I was recently in somewhat of a similar situation throughout undergrad (I’m now about to graduate and go to a full-time job, which is hopefully where you’ll be in a year. With what you’ve said here, it sounds like you’re doing exactly what you need to do for that!).

      When I was trying to balance stuff like this, I tried to consider:
      (1) Can I fit both of these on my resume? If I take one off, which would it be?
      (2) How could I sell each of these in an interview?

      With your situation specifically, how helpful do you think the on-campus networking would be? Can you use some of the projects at the internship for a portfolio? From what you’ve said here, the internship sounds more valuable both in the short-term (money, interesting work) and the long-term.

      The time consideration is big too. I had some weeks where I did nothing but school, work, and sleep–and they were exhausting and unsustainable. If you’re having misgivings about doing both, you might want to listen to your gut. You know your boundaries. And like a lot of others are saying, this is your last break! It sounds like you’re exhausted already, so it might be a good idea to give yourself some time to heal. It’s great that you’re investing in your future, but it’s good to invest in your health too.

      I bowed out of additional commitments that I was reasonably sure wouldn’t add a whole lot to my resume or that I realized likely would’ve been bumped off the resume anyway. It sounds like you’ll still have plenty to talk about in interviews without having to do both opportunities.

  43. Miss Mack*

    I have 2 issues here.
    First, there’s a huge noise issue I need help with. I’m a marketing writer and would prefer quiet but know that’s not likely to happen in office. I have headphones but my surrounding cube-mates are LOUD! I’m talking noise cancelling headphones, I still hear them clearly. When it’s just social talking, I have no problem asking them to keep it down. However, they’re all sales aka need to be talking on the phone for their jobs. How can I ask them to keep a quieter tone when it’s work related?
    Second, there’s a woman trying to be my work mother. I know Allison’s written about this but there are a lot of younger women in my office who have accepted and validated this woman as such, making it uncomfortable when I tell her that behavior is weird. I have a mother and I love her dearly; I don’t need a mom at work. How can I tell her to cut it out without her “daughters” retaliating? Unrelated, the whole dynamic of it just creeps me out! Are you not adult enough to take care of yourself at work?!

    1. Allison*

      As much as I agree that office mothering is weird and crosses most people’s boundaries, in this case enough young women appreciate it, vocally criticizing it isn’t a good move. Instead, make it clear that you don’t like it and would like her to stop doing it to you. I’m not sure what exactly she’s doing, but something like “I appreciate the concern, but I’m all set, thanks” might work, or “why would you say/do that? we’re both adults here” might be needed.

      1. Miss Mack*

        She is very interested in my personal life, like why aren’t I dating? My lunch doesn’t look healthy today, and odd things like that. I know for a fact she has a biological daughter at home so maybe it’s just a hard habit to kick. I guess my problem is more with her “daughters” than her. I will say I’m fine, don’t worry about me thanks though, etc. But then one of the “daughters” will will make a comment how I’m always rude to this woman. The rest of the day will then have passive-aggressive sighs or comments. I’m a private person, I just don’t want to share that at work

        1. fposte*

          “I like Jane just fine. I’m sure if she has a concern she’ll raise it with me directly; I trust her to be honest, and I hope you do too.”

        2. Allison*

          Ah, that’s rough! I hate the idea that being “polite” so super maternal women means letting them mother all over us even if we really don’t want or like it at all.

          Honestly, I might quit, that sounds like a sucky environment.

        3. Liane*

          I’d be very tempted to just call out the “daughters” on a few things. “Malificent, why are you giving me those unprofessional tween-girl sighs and snarks? We’re professionals, after all. Did you not receive my TPS reports or do you need something else for Project Cersei? Or is something I am doing keeping you from completing your work?”

          1. Miss Mack*

            That is really helpful! Thanks. I don’t want to ruffle feathers but it’s getting to be too much. I’m here to work, not be mothered.

    2. zora*

      For the noise, I don’t think you can ask them to be quieter, sorry :o\ But a couple of thoughts:

      – Can you ask about moving/reconfiguring? If there’s a way to reorganize so that you are on the end, or the farthest corner, just to get some space rather than being completely surrounded, that would help a little.

      – I’ve been looking into headphones and noise-cancelling headphones aren’t actually designed to deal with voices, just constant sounds like airplane engine noise. Try looking for “noise-isolating” headphones, which have sound baffling in them to block out more noise. And then try white noise or other similar sound in the headphones. I have much better sound blocking when I’m listening to “meditation music” which is slow, calming music with white noise included, usually waves or rain.

      – an actual white noise machine? Can you ask for one? If you move a little farther away into a corner and have a white noise machine behind you, that might take the edge off the voices.

      – sound baffling? I’m in a totally open office but we have these small, 5 foot tall dividers that we got super cheap from an office furniture warehouse. I can picture 5-6 foot dividers with sound baffling on both sides, and arranging them around your desk/behind you, so that you have an extra layer between you and their voices.

      That’s all I got, except lots of sympathy and commiseration because I sit right behind my boss and she is on the phone all the time and I can’t ask her to be quiet. So, I’m just maxing out every tactic I can think of.

  44. JustaTech*

    I’ve got a semi-spontaneous networking event tonight and I’d like the commentariat’s opinion on business cards:
    What’s better: my work business cards that have an old title and defunct mailing address, or nothing?
    Would home-printed cards have been better?
    (Obviously professionally printed cards would be best.)

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Why have a mailing address at all? And an old title? Don’t use those.

      Get some cards with your personal email address and phone number, and just your name.

  45. Jessen*

    Would there be any chanc of getting a mobile site sometime? I like to check askamanager at work, but it’s blocked on our work network. And a lot of the ads on the desktop site really don’t work on mobile – they take forever to load, and the one at the bottom of the page basically takes up the whole screen and is difficult to close without clicking on it by accident.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      There is a mobile site! You should be seeing ads in a different place (throughout the posts rather than in a right-hand sidebar) and a vertical menu at the top.

    2. paul*

      Alison; I have a windows phone and it emphatically doesn’t work right on edge. It does on my android tablet at home though.

      2. Honeybee*

        To be fair, that could be Edge’s fault on the Windows phone and not the website’s. Or some combination of both the site and Edge. I work in a position that requires me to do user testing with Edge quite frequently and it doesn’t work with a lot of sites.

  46. Allison*

    I sit near a chronic complainer, and she’s driving me nuts. Every day she whines, out loud to no one in particular, about how cold she is, how tired she is, how hungry she is, how much work she has to do, how many meetings she has, how difficult people are being, how she’s just gotta get through the day, it’s so quiet in here, and did she mention she was tired? She’s so tired! Any time it’s raining, she has to complain about that too, of course.

    Look, I get that work isn’t all sunshine and rainbows – we’re all tired, and many of us ladies are getting cold as we get closer to summer and the A/C keeps getting turned up. I get that her job can be stressful, people really can be difficult, and she does get overwhelmed, so the occasional complaint isn’t exactly a sin, but I don’t think anyone wants to hear the steady stream of negativity coming from her cube all day.

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Are you me? Because I sit next to a chronic complainer too!

      Don’t give her any attention. I do not respond to my coworker’s random complaints. If she does complain directly to me (i.e. “I’m so thirsty!” when we are offsite), I say “You need to be prepared when you leave the office. Get a reusable water bottle.”

      Treat her like a child. If her negativity impacts your ability to do your work or starts affecting your other coworkers, say something to your boss. I lasted three months with my chronic complainer before I HAD to email my boss about it. The entire office atmosphere was brought down because of her negativity.

    2. Rebecca*

      I share an office with complainers. It doesn’t matter what it is, they complain. Earbuds and podcasts. That’s all I have. Perhaps go to your manager, and tell him or her that the next time seats are going to be rearranged, you’d like a fresh space? That’s what I’m going to do.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      An old colleague of mine once shut one of these up with: “Oh dear. It really happens to you, doesn’t it.”

  47. Paperback Writer*

    So… recently one of my colleagues was promoted and is now managing our department (new boss) while our former manager became director with more responsibilities (grand boss). Technically, we all report to the new boss with a dotted line to the grand boss. I get assignments from both and there have been times when one doesn’t know what the other has tasked me with. I’m not worried about getting overloaded, I’m comfortable with telling them what’s on my plate… but I’m having trouble figuring out whether I need to notify one when the other is working with me on something or whether it’s the responsibility of the two of them to discuss what’s going on in the department. I’ll give an example. I’m working on a project with the grand boss and recently a report surfaced that was related to it. Grand boss sent it to me and we were working on responding to it. Then a few hours later New boss received the report and forwarded it to me, asking me if I knew about it. I let her know that the Grand boss had sent it to me and that we were working on it and what the latest update was. But my question is should I have forwarded this information to my new boss sooner? I’m just a touch uncomfortable with this new dynamic and worry that there’s going to come a time when I get stuck in the middle for failing to notify one about something the other had me do.

    1. OtterB*

      I’d ask boss and grandboss directly about this one. It sounds like it’s not an entrenched dysfunction, just a loose ends with a new working relationship. Say you don’t want to waste their time with unnecessary emails but you also don’t want confusion, and how do they think the 3-way communication ought to work?

      1. JulieBulie*

        This is a good idea. I had a similar (not identical) situation for a while, and it was turning into a goat rodeo. In a moment of frustration, I wrote an email explaining that I just couldn’t continue with things in that manner. (I am not recommending this desperate-sounding wording!) To my surprise, they both agreed, realizing that they were also frustrating themselves. The grandboss agreed to communicate better with the boss, and let the boss do the majority of the bossing. And not boss his grandreports unless there was some special case.

  48. kavm*

    I am currently searching for a new job, I’ve been in my current position for almost 3 years and it is my first real job. So what do I do about references? I wouldn’t want to list my current supervisor (he’s great, but I don’t want to deal with any awkwardness) but I don’t really have anyone else to provide a reference except for jobs that I feel are unrelated (summer retail) or too far in the past (I could list my supervisor from an internship but that was 4 years ago – is that too long ago?). I haven’t been called for interviews yet so this may be premature but I want to be prepared if/when I need to provide references.

    1. Lillian Styx*

      I have this same problem. I am using people who have since left the company as references. None of them were direct managers, but I was subordinate enough to them that I’m hoping it’s good enough for now.

    2. Bagworm*

      I don’t think four years ago is too old at all. I also think that it’s ok to use supervisors from unrelated fields. They can still speak to a lot about the type of employee you are.

  49. Sandy*

    SO I mentioned this situation in this morning’s comments, but I am thinking now that I could use some advice.

    I changed jobs last year, and it has been wonderful. The work is pretty good, but the boss and my colleagues were GREAT. Everybody got along very well, there’s a real diversity of perspectives and healthy debate, a really respectful and professional atmosphere.

    …and then my boss left. It was kind of unexpected- they have a background in a niche field, and jobs don’t come up at that level very often- but kind of not, since they had been around for quite a while.

    The new boss is… not great. Some part of that may just be the growing pains associated with settling into a new position in a new organization, some part of it (if I am being honest) is probably just a lack of personality “gel”.

    If it were just the boss, I think I could easily suck it up and just accept the change. But the new boss has brought in a contingent of his own staff from outside the organization. They make up 50% of the team now, and it has done some really weird things to the group dynamic.

    For example, they all come from the same academic background (same program, same university, and everything) and are openly critical of anyone who doesn’t (in one case, one of them openly questioned why two of the other colleagues were “ever hired in the first place” since they don’t share that background). Even though they have each been on the job less than a month, meetings get taken over by their comments (not usually questions) from their previous position with the new boss. And they go and hang out in the new boss’ office, doors closed, while the “old” team is left outside, wondering what theya re missing out on.

    It has really messed the office dynamic, and several of the “old” etam have been wondering whether the writing is on the wall and they should start trying to move on. Has anybody ever seen a dynamic like this work itself out *without* a mass exodus? Is it worth sticking around to see if it will pass, or should I also start looking to jump?

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Sorry to say that the last time I was in this situation, the boss clearly was looking to replace as many of the old team as possible. She didn’t actually fire anyone, but she made us all feel REALLY uncomfortable, trashed our performance, and we all felt that the axe would drop at any minute. Six of her staff of eight (including me) quit within six months.

      I’d at least start looking for new options. Perhaps start by calling up your old boss, since she was awesome?

    2. JulieBulie*

      True story:

      A company I worked for 20 years ago demoted our director and brought in someone new. (This company had bought us a few years prior and had no previous experience in software development, but they had a lot of opinions as to how we should be doing it.) They told this woman that we were a problem team and her job was to turn us around.

      This woman brought in a bunch of contract programmers that she had known from elsewhere. She treated us, the longtime employees, like a bunch of delinquents. She delivered many speeches about how we should stop being so complacent and yadda yadda yadda.

      The project wasn’t going well. Her consultant friends didn’t know anything about our industry, our users, or our products. Over time, this new director finally came to understand that we actually hadn’t been doing anything wrong, and the company’s expectations weren’t realistic.

      But that realization came too late. She was fired, and her contractors were let go as well. A lot of the employees, including me, quit in frustration because we couldn’t stand it any more.

      The project eventually got done, under the leadership of our original director.

      This won’t necessarily happen to you… but you never know.

      1. JulieBulie*

        Oh but to answer your question – yeah, there was a mass exodus. None of us regretted leaving. My new job was better, and when our old director was put back in charge, she paid me a king’s ransom to work on the manuals as a side-job.

        Incidentally, she got tired of dealing with executive managers and eventually moved on as well.

    3. Chaordic One*

      Yeah, it’s time to move on. In my experience they brought in a new boss from a different department that was tangentially related to what we did, but she really didn’t have an idea of what we did. We spent a lot of time educating her and explaining why we did things a certain way. And explaining and explaining. She was not a quick study and was determined to reinvent the wheel. Things did not end well.

      Jump from the sinking ship while you have the chance and before they throw you overboard without a life preserver.

  50. Trixie*

    AAM collective, any favorite activities from department or team retreat? Planning on department retreat for 30 at a lovely vineyard with a catered lunch. Would like to have some ideas for activities after lunch keeping in mind some folks are more sedentary than others. Lots of flexibility otherwise. (Yoga, cornhole, board games, etc.) Suggestions?

    1. KatieKate*

      If you have the facilities, I always lean towards something cool that makes everyone look a little goofy.

      One of the best activities I did with a team was archery! One of our older woman VPs was surprising AMAZING at it and we all had a blast cheering her on

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Cornhole is super fun! Almost anyone can do it and it’s fun to form teams. If you have enough people, you can even make a bracket!

    3. Parenthetically*

      Do you mean an activity for the whole group? If so… just piping up to say that I’m very introverted in large groups and I detest group activities. I would love to WATCH people do archery, as in KatieKate’s example, but being forced to participate (or chivvied or cheered into participating) would ruin my day. Having options is awesome — I love the activities you listed! — but oh gracious, I find nothing more mortifying and anxiety-inducing than stuff like this.

      1. Trixie*

        I’m with you on this. Some folks love the idea of a zumba or yoga class while others are terrified or no interest in sharing with coworkers. We specifically want to allow space for the people watchers who aren’t “participants” as a rule.

        1. JulieBulie*

          Trixie, you are awesome. Thank you for making things easier for people like me!

    4. Trix*

      Giant jenga is surprisingly as fun for observers as it is for participants.

      Also, love the board games idea. Settlers of Catan, Apples to Apples, etc.

      1. Jessica*

        I love boardgames, but am aware that some people inexplicably hate them or find them intimidating. And if you go toward more “party game” boardgames, watch out for stuff that’s offensive or just intrusive and overly personal for work.

        I agree that whatever you do, you need to let people opt out. But also think about those who opt in. There are activities I would feel comfortable doing with everyone who was also doing them, but would not be comfortable doing while being observed by nonparticipants.

    5. Honeybee*

      I love yoga. I would not love to do yoga with my teammates.

      Board games and cornhole are cool.

      1. Lucy Richardson*

        I love yoga. I would do yoga with most teammates. Non participants watching from the sidelines, however, would be super creepy.

  51. Amelia Earhart, Fearless Flyer*

    How do I navigate trying to teach college interns professional norms when I work with their parents, who outrank me? It’s nothing big, just small things like, “I need you, not your dad, to negotiate your schedule with me,” and “you can’t tell me three days after you start that you’re going to be gone next week for vacation.” They’re not bad kids, they do the (often boring) work that I give them without complaint, but the close proximity of their parents makes it awkward.

    1. fposte*

      Make it policy, not personal. “It’s internship policy that all communications with supervisors have to come from the interns themselves, not friends or family.” “It’s internship policy that vacation of more than a day has to be requested at the beginning of the semester.”

      And then keep a manual that includes those policies, and share it with new interns.

      1. Parenthetically*

        Yes. I so wish I had done this from the beginning, teaching my boss’s and coworkers’ kids.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Do the parents just outrank you, or do you actually report to them?

      If their parents are your supervisors or your supervisor’s supervisor, that gets really tricky.

      But if you’re assistant directory of X, and they’re director of Y (different department), I don’t think you should feel any hesitation in telling the parent to back off (nicely) and negotiate the schedule directly with the kid.

      That said, you can do only what you can do. And if they decide to have that enablement dynamic, they’ll ultimately suffer for it.

    3. OtterB*

      Depending on how you think it would be received, you might tell the parents directly that interns get the most benefit from the experience when they learn to do professional workplace things (e.g. communicate with a supervisor about schedule) without having a parent directly involved. It can’t hurt to add that they’re good kids, just new to the workplace.

      1. Ashie*

        Meh I think that undermines the message. Talk to the interns directly and let them know that you won’t be dealing with their parents.

        1. OtterB*

          Definitely tell the interns first and foremost. I was thinking about the dynamic of the OP/intern supervisor being junior to the parents who are initiating communication. Couching a refusal to respond to the parent in terms of what’s best for the intern would make it clearer to the parent why the policy is this way without making the OP seem rude or indifferent.

  52. Ostara*

    I share an office with a 40-something man who came from a bro-culture startup. He’s been here almost 6 months and for the past 5 weeks or so he’s started audibly belching and rippint farts. We work in the public sector but not customer facing. The office is small and he will occasionally apologize but it’s done in a cutesy way like “excuuuse a-me!”. His belch rings down the hallway and we’re right next to management but nobody has said anything. It’s rude and gross and stinks up the office. I’ve brought it up with him (“Wow, that’s gross. Did you really need to do that?” but he won’t respond. They don’t seem to be medically related though i’m not sure – it sounds like he forces them out of his body and tries to make it go on as long as possible.

    Is this something to bring to management? I’ve brought up his sexism and perverseness and they took it seriously but this seems like non-supervisor talk despite it making me dread coming to work. I have noise canceling headphones and they work to deter him from chatting to me all day but not the biological noises. Plus I have to listen for phones so my volume is kept low.

    1. Temperance*

      I would absolutely talk to your boss about this. I mean, that’s really disgusting. There was a letter here some time ago about a woman who quit her job because her disgusting officemate was purposely farting and making her ill.

    2. Emi.*

      If all you’ve said is “Wow, that’s gross. Did you really need to do that?” you could start by saying something more forceful, like “Fergus, that’s really distracting, and frankly it grosses me out. Would you please cut it out?”

      But you can also go straight to his supervisor, IMO. This is very nasty and ridiculous, and you absolutely have standing to loop bosses in.

    3. fposte*

      Tell him not just you find it gross but what you want him to do. “Fergus, that’s disruptive to my work; can you belch with your mouth closed in future? Thanks.” “Can you do that in the bathroom in future, please?”

      It does sound a little IBS-y, but you can still close your mouth.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Am chuckling, I remember my parents teaching me as a kid, “If you feel gassy then you need to start heading toward the bathroom.’

        If he keeps doing it after you say something, I might be tempted to say, “Have you seen a doctor about that?”

    4. Sadsack*

      You mentioned that he has been talked to about sexism and perverseness. Is it possible that his recent disgusting antics are retaliation? I would definitely go to my manager about this. I cannot imagine having to work with someone who does this.

      1. Lissa*

        I was thinking that too. Yes, it could be a health/medical thing but the timing is..Suspect.

    5. Parenthetically*

      “Fergus, please stop belching and passing gas audibly in front of everyone. It’s disruptive, and rude, and stinks. If you need to make bodily noises, you can go to the bathroom like the rest of us do.”

    6. Casuan*

      Gross.
      That said, don’t assume it’s a bro-culture thing. It can also be from a medical concern [fposte mentioned “ibs-y”], so perhaps you’ll have better luck with that paradigm.

      And that said… If I wasn’t so detached* from this then I’d probably be too put off from this & his other behaviours to even think of another cause that isn’t just rude & gross.

      Definitely tell Fergus this behaviour in public is not acceptable & that he must make every effort to not do this in public. If he doesn’t improve then upscale your concern.

      *detached = sitting in a comfy chair being glad that I’m not in your office

      And really?!?
      Who intentionally does that in a professional environment?!?
      besides Fergus, I mean…
      yeah, I know… there are people…
      Gross

      ps: If you manager doesn’t think this is a big deal or otherwise fails to understand the problem, perhaps a strategically placed fan might change their thinking…
      Actually, if this is medical & Fergus really can’t be more discreet, perhaps a fan might help?

  53. AdAgencyChick*

    WWYD if you have a new employee who talks to you about upcoming PTO that she should have mentioned during the offer process? If she had mentioned it to me then, I would have known, hey, I need to plan a workaround, but I really want this person to work for me so I’ll approve the days.

    Now, she’s here, and she’s telling me she needs a couple of days off that unfortunately coincide with me being out of the office for a business trip. The two of us should not both be out on the same day. I don’t want to be an ogre, but I can’t move the trip (it’s for a conference), and I will be the one who takes the heat if someone needs support in the office that day and there’s no one there.

    WWYD?

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        A visit from an out-of-town family member.

        If it makes a difference, I think this is my employee’s second post-college job. She may not have known that PTO can be negotiated at the offer stage, which is part of why I feel bad about saying no.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Oh… a visit from out-of-town? I don’t think you should approve that.

          Then again, it really depends on how much of a pain it would be for you to arrange coverage for her. Would it be worth some kind of compromise? In other words, let’s say she’s asking for Thursday and Friday, and it would be difficult for you to cover both days. Could you approve her for just Friday, so she gets some time to spend with the family member but not approve her for Thursday, so there are fewer workarounds you need to arrange?

        3. Natalie*

          From your username I’m assuming they’re not a trauma surgeon or a firefighter or something where “working” means spending every waking minute at work. They can visit with their family member after work just fine.

      2. Anonymous Educator*

        Yeah, I think this is key, especially if it involves having to rearrange things and plan a workaround.

        Is she having emergency surgery for breast cancer? Or is it a last-minute vacation she’s planned?

        I think that makes a huge difference. Generally speaking, I don’t think it’s a manager’s business what an employee uses paid time off for, but in this case, the approval (or not) has major ramifications, and it’s on her for not asking earlier.

      3. Friday*

        Right – for stuff like this, before saying a hard NO you do need to find out if it’s pre-scheduled surgery, sibling’s wedding, etc. etc. basically something paramount in her life that she can’t reschedule. Tell her that because of your company’s policy and your pre-scheduled conference, it’s currently a No on her PTO but if she has a pressing circumstance that she’d be willing to share with you, then you can discuss with your boss how to work around her need.

        FWIW if you hadn’t hired her before your conference, then would you still be planning to go to the conference, or would you have planned to miss it to provide office coverage?

        1. AdAgencyChick*

          I’d go to the conference, but if we didn’t have someone in the slot, everyone would know not to expect coverage in the office. I’d probably also be expected to respond to certain requests while in my hotel room instead of chilling out after a long day. I could still do that, but a) I don’t want to, and b) other team members know that I have a direct report and will wonder why I allowed a situation with no one in the office.

          If she’d let me know ahead of time, I likely would have used some combo of working through it at the conference and giving the rest of the team plenty of advance notice to please minimize requests during the period with no coverage.

          1. zora*

            “, I likely would have used some combo of working through it at the conference and giving the rest of the team plenty of advance notice to please minimize requests during the period with no coverage.”

            Tell her this. And don’t approve her taking the days off.

            When I was younger and in entry level jobs and had friends/family come to town to visit, I just had to do my work hours and spend time with my family after work or on the weekends. That is perfectly reasonable, and she should be able to deal.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Don’t approve her PTO. She should have disclosed it when you made her an offer. She didn’t, and this is an impossible situation for you, so she needs to go to work.

    3. Caledonia*

      Wow, I think some of this is harsh. I would sit her down and say that PTO can be negotiated at offer stage, if she is only on her second job out of college, give her some slack. I would approve some of the leave – maybe a half day. Explain that in future cover is always needed or whatever in the office so you would prefer it if one of you were in the office at any given point.

      This way you’re saying it’s not ok, explaining job norms and approving some leave so she isn’t resentful of not spending time with a family member. This reason isn’t also necessarily “weak” either – they could be ill, old, haven’t seen each other in many years, only available for this one time…who knows?

      And put on your out of offices so people know you’re unlikely to respond to emails immediately – goes for your direct report too.

      Lastly, who cares what the other people in your office think of this?

      2. zora*

        I really like a lot of your suggestions and framing and I think they are good.

        But there is a valid reason to care what other people in your office think. It often is important for people to be able to get what they need from other departments, and that they are handling their workload appropriately, because it can affect everything from other people’s jobs to the profitability of the company and/or the mission. Especially if other departments are internal clients.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Why not tell her asap, maybe her visitor can reschedule to a time where she can get PTO.

  54. Tempest*

    Tomorrow represents the last Saturday I should ever have to work (unless new job changes their hours but the said during interviews they don’t ever see a reason why they would.)

    I have a week left at oldjob and it will be the longest week of my life. I need out of here so fricking bad.

    New job has ordered my work wear (I get to wear jeans and their t shirts to work at newjob instead of business formal suits etc!) laptop and phone. They’ve booked my hotel accommodation for my first week of training at a truly nice hotel (oldjob would be in the cheapest they could find.) When I get to the local airport (I’m on the train but apparently it’s easiest for me to get a bus from train station to airport and they’ll pick me up from there) my new interim manager will come collect me. Two of my new colleagues are also training in the same remote location with me so I can’t wait to meet them.

    I keep waiting for someone to deliver the punchline. Like ‘haha, you knew no job in your industry could be this good, we were just kidding!’

    Lazy colleague has dropped a real clanger as well, so sitting here pretending to commiserate while internalizing my laughter has helped my mood today as well. It’s a pretty public one, and it looks like my replacement will be the one option he was dreading as well, so here’s to the fact if it wasn’t for you being a rubbish colleague I wouldn’t have been looking in the first place. Colleague was essentially hoping manager would hire someone brand spanking new who could be bossed around and used to make sure colleague got to do even less under the premise of training the newb. They’re now getting an internal transfer with more seniority than them, almost as much as I have. I’m literally crying at the irony.

  55. Excitable Sim*

    I’m going camping this weekend with some coworkers I’m casually acquainted with. We’re already above the 49th parallel and we’ll be driving an additional five hours north to the campsite immediately after work. It will be cold, I’m sharing a tent with two other women I don’t know well, and it will be outdoors. I’m not sure why I agreed to go.

    This is either going to be awesomely fun or the worst idea ever. At least I bought wine.

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      That sounds super fun, but I love my coworkers, so I could see how it would not be fun for someone who doesn’t! Let us know how it goes!

    4. krysb*

      I traveled through 14 states over 8 days with my boss on vacation. Luckily we’re pretty compatible and had a great time.

  56. Jen RO*

    Performance review time is coming in my company… and I’m not sure how to handle things with a couple of my reports. For background, our main activity is writing and the team is made out of people who hadn’t written before, but showed potential and looked “trainable”.

    No. 1 is hard-working, but doesn’t pay enough attention and doesn’t have enough product knowledge. The product knowledge is understandable – he’s been here for less than a year and it’s a complex product. The attention to detail on the other hand… that is a very important component of this job. Some examples: he skims through emails/IM conversations and misses the point, so he needs clarifications for things that were already clear; he writes notes for himself and still sends incorrect emails; he writes texts with formatting mistakes.

    No. 2 has learned slowly so far, is very visibly not a good writer, and doesn’t seem to be very motivated to, you know, work. She has improved in some respects (after several conversations), but it’s pretty clear to me that she’s not made out for this job. I’ve seen people without writing skills succeed, but they worked at it very hard, something she doesn’t seem interested in doing.

    I am getting very tired of hand-holding and I snap more often than I’d like… and I don’t think that’s fair for anyone involved.

    So… if you were the employee in this situation, what would you like me to tell you in the performance review discussion? They both are good (or at least decent) at some tasks, but overall they are both below average. How negative should I be? No. 1 at least tries, but No. 2 doesn’t really. “Start busting your ass or go looking for another job” is a bit too much, right?…

    To add to the problem, writing is hard to teach! I’ve documented our standards for structure and formatting, I’ve done trainings, I’ve painstakingly corrected their work for almost a year (with comments) and sometimes it feels like I’m talking to a wall. I’ve trained most of the 30 or so people who’ve been in the department through the years, with seemingly good results, but maybe I’m doing something wrong now?!

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Hopefully you’ve been saying something about these issues as they happen, and I think #1 is more correctable than #2. If you’ve been saying things like, “Fergus, I’m going to need you to redo that report because of these mistakes” and “You shouldn’t be asking me that question because it was already answered in the email thread,” then what you do in the review is to bring up the *pattern*. “Fergus, we’ve had a lot of conversations about mistakes in your work and having to explain things that you could have learned from reading the documentation. To be successful at this job, I need you to pay more attention to details like that,” and then you tell him some concrete ways to do that (double-checking all work, thoroughly reading email chains before asking a question, checking your emails against your notes).

      And then you tell him you think he can do it, because he has learned X, Y, and Z and has shown that he’s capable of working hard, so that he walks out believing, “I need to work on this, but I CAN do it.”

      With someone who’s not really motivated, though, I don’t think there’s much you can say beyond telling her that her skills are not up to a level to continue in the job, then ask her whether she’s willing to put in the time and effort to get where she needs to be. If she says yes, then maybe put her on a PIP with clear steps to follow to pull herself up to the level she needs to be; if she says, “actually, I don’t think this is really for me” or gets combative, then you talk to her about steps to transition her out.

      1. Jen RO*

        Yes, I’ve addressed these all these things with them (repeatedly), but I haven’t pointed out the pattern. Maybe that’s what’s missing here. For No.2, a similar conversation did work – she admitted she was not re-reading her texts and the difference was noticeable when she started doing it.

        Thanks for the scripts! Now I have to practice saying them in a not-BEC way… (No. 2 cried last time we had a serious talk. Fun times.)

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Yes — the next step here is to (a) point out the pattern and (b) tell them how serious it is (which means saying that it could impact their ability to stay in the job, presumably). Managers often think employees will figure out both of those on their own, but very often they don’t. Your job is to spell it out and be as clear as possible.

          Also, will you fire one or both of them if things don’t improve? How long are you willing to give them? That’s info they should have now.

      2. Melody Pond*

        And then you tell him you think he can do it, because he has learned X, Y, and Z and has shown that he’s capable of working hard, so that he walks out believing, “I need to work on this, but I CAN do it.”

        I’m really glad you pointed this piece of it out, because it makes me realize that that’s something I really need to hear, whenever I’m getting critical feedback. I often really struggle to process negative feedback in a productive way, mainly due to low social skills and low social confidence (thanks, Mom, for being a hermit with us when we were homeschooled!).

        Unless I feel very, VERY comfortable on a social/almost-personal-friendship level with the manager in question, I typically walk out of performance reviews feeling completely despondent and dejected, and ironically less able to work on the improvements that are needed. This is especially true if the feedback given is phrased in “you” phrases like, “you need to do X, you’re not strong enough in Y,” as opposed to “I” statements, like, “I really need more of X in order to get everything I need for my role/my projects/our team.”

        But I think ending the feedback on as uplifting of a note as possible would be immensely beneficial for me, as the employee. If possible, if it’s at least reasonably true, hearing “I believe you can do this, I have confidence in you,” would be really helpful.

        1. Jen RO*

          I am usually super patient and cut everyone a lot of slack, so I feel like they won’t take me seriously when I give them negative feedback unless I am *really* negative. On the other hand, I am like you, and hearing “you suck” (even in an implied way) would motivate me faster than anything else.

    2. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      #1 sounds like he might improve with a PIP, a little, but attention to detail is one of those things that really can’t be taught and is pretty fundamental to how a person thinks and approaches their jobs. I’ve had folks on my team who were bad with details, and they’d do fine for three months after the Big PIP Talk and during the PIP, but then they slowly reverted to their old habits.

      For #2….I mean, honestly? “Start busting your ass or go looking for another job” is a bit too much, but “The quality of your writing is not at the level I need, I don’t see the quality of your writing improving with time, and up to now I haven’t seen the dedication and energy that improvement would require. I am really questioning whether it makes sense to move forward with you in this position,” is pretty defensible. Honestly, I wouldn’t pursue a PIP with this person. I’d probably just let them go.

      1. Jen RO*

        “Just letting them go” is not possible (the law in my country is pretty protective of the employees) and a PIP would be a huge pain in the ass, extended over 6 months (per guidance from HR). Most managers simply hope that the fact of being put on a PIP will make people quit…

      2. Jen RO*

        Also, thank you! I will write that second paragraph down because I think that’s a great way to say what I mean.

    3. Gloucesterina*

      One of my jobs is teaching writing to first-year college students–echoing that writing is hard to teach! So I appreciate hearing a perspective on this from another professional field.

      It’s hard for me to imagine answering the question about what I would want to hear as the employee in this situation. I don’t think that writing is a skill that one has or doesn’t have (talent is another thing), but I do think a person can choose to cultivate a skill or not choose to cultivate a skill, and it sounds like these particular trainees are choosing not to cultivate their skill. I talk with my students a lot about the importance of sitting with discomfort, whether it’s the discomfort of trying to answering a challenging question in a piece of writing or the discomfort of receiving feedback that asks you to dramatically change your approach to something you’ve already spent a lot of time on. (Or the discomfort of hearing and understanding that your work isn’t suitable for the position you were hired for.) Do you think starting a conversation about something like this would be productive for these employees?

      1. Jen RO*

        I have talked about writing to them in the past, and I have admitted that I am probably not the best teacher. I do think that writing (or rather, editing) can be something you just “have”, because that’s the way I am – I’ve been unconsciously editing my whole life, before I even had a word for it. Things just sound right to me.

        However, when I recommended some useful books to the team (and even brought my personal copies to work), the only ones who took advantage were the team members who were already strong. I am still debating whether I should raise this point with No. 1 and No. 2…

    4. WellRed*

      There’s only so much teaching you can do with writing, in my opinion. Some people simply can’t write. I feel like No. 2 has to feel miserable at the job.

      2. Jen RO*

        Yeah, she doesn’t seem too happy. Actually, she seems to be swinging between patting herself on the back for any perceived minor success (usually not really that successful) and whining. Last week she was trying to do something and she literally said “I feel like crying now, I can’t do this”. She was trying to insert a photo in a page… I really don’t know why she doesn’t just leave.

        1. Caledonia*

          Because….it’s sometimes not as easy as “just leave”. Like, I have been in a job that made me miserable and it spread into my entire life. Inertia. Perhaps the best thing is just to try and get the issue out into the open and support her in looking for a new job, time off and being a good reference for her.

    5. Security SemiPro*

      For both of them, coach and correct in the moment whenever possible, this feedback shouldn’t be new information! Be clear with yourself and your staff what acceptable (i.e. non PIP/non firing) performance looks like and what good performance looks like. How can you tell? (reports that don’t have to be reworked after you review them vs. reports that you don’t have to closely review because the staff writing them is so reliable is one example. Developing a checklist for themselves and following it, publishing it so others can use it, other staff adopting and preferring the checklist over previous tools is another spectrum of acceptable/good/awesome performance.)

      If you don’t know what is not good enough, good enough, or great, how can your staff? If you know but haven’t told them, how can you expect them to do it?

      For #1 – yes, point out the pattern! I disagree that paying attention to detail is an unlearnable trait. I’m a big picture thinker and I’m happier when the details sort themselves – but they very rarely do, so when the details matter I have to slow down or double check or get a second opinion or follow a checklist, or a combination of the above.

      #2 sounds like the bane of my personal existence, and I’d probably just start slogging through the PIP. It might take 6 months to fire them, but at least at the end of it you might be able to hire someone else. If you’re not super cynical, you can also sit down with them and ask them what they think of their own performance. See if they can see where they are struggling and if they have any ideas on what is causing their lack of quality out put. Do they need training? Example templates to follow? More opportunities to practice?

      You see them struggling. Do they see themselves as struggling? Do they see how far away they are from good performance? (Not exactly motivational, but step one if defining the problem, and they may think that they are just making a few mistakes here and there and so don’t really need to work that much harder to hit rockstar level.) Do they want to be good at this job? (What do you want? is a valid question to ask. Do they want to not be fired and leave on time every day? Is this a job that can do that for them?)

      1. Jen RO*

        A self-assessment is part of the company’s process, so I am definitely interested in seeing what they say! No.1 is pretty self-aware and realizes he’s struggling… No.2 seems to have an attitude of “I need to sing my own praises because no one else will” and I don’t know if that’s an honest opinion or just a means of “self-defense”. I’ll report back after I meet with them.

    6. Honeybee*

      If I was Number 2, I would absolutely want to be told that I needed to start busting my ass or I’d lose my job. Obviously in different words, but if the perception was out there that I wasn’t working hard enough and that it appeared from the outside that I was not motivated to do my job – and that it was potentially threatening my position – I’d want to know so I could fix it (or, were I actually lazy, know so that I could find a position where I wouldn’t have to work too hard). We had someone on our staff who was recently told this and he actually shaped up quickly.

      With number 1, I think you can tell him that attention to detail is very important in this job and you notice that he hasn’t been attending to reading or writing communications very well. Reading well is the foundation of writing well. Tell him you need him to read and not skim his emails, and you need him to be able to grasp clearly communicated information without having to remind him or explain to him every time. You also need his text communication to be as flawless as possible, which may mean he needs to take additional time to proofread and edit. Giving him concrete outcomes that you expect will probably be the most helpful – or at least, I know that’s what would help me. Whenever my manager gives me some feedback about an area in which I can improve I always ask her if she’s got suggestions for how I can get there.

      Also, I teach writing to high schoolers and have taught writing in some capacity for several years now. YES, IT IS HARD. And I hate to say this, but in my experience, everyone has their ceiling based on the skills they come in with. Some people have natural writing skills, and they need some polish or education but they can generally get better with time and practice. (When I say “natural,” I don’t mean it’s an innate or inherited trait, but somewhere along the way they were good readers and paid attention to conventions and picked up enough that their early style is good.) And unfortunately some people have poor writing skills and with some effort and time can come up to mediocre/at least grammatically correct but won’t ever really be good writers. In many of those cases, even basic structure and formatting and grammar is really difficult for them to get right because they don’t have an eye for it – they haven’t ever learned how to pay attention to these things in the stuff they read, or maybe they don’t read that often, and so they didn’t develop a sense for how sentences go together. It’s a time-intensive thing to turnaround, and in the future you may decide that you need people who already write at a certain level and seem more teachable/able to improve than others.

  57. Stephern*

    How would you feel in this situation I encountered a few years ago? Ren started a new job the same time I did. While we were on the same team, Ren was training to take over the job done by Mace. Mace was well-liked and did a great job. Ren took over the position in about a month and Mace moved on (to a different company).

    Fast forward about 6 months, Ren leaves unexpectedly and I take over that position. As time goes on, I hear people talking about how Mace hates his new job and wants to come back. I also get a proposition from my manager to join another team that they oversee. I think it over and agree to it – see a different part of the company and learn something new. Why not?

    Turns out they let Mace rejoin the company and he took over my position (which had been his originally). I couldn’t help but feel a little hurt at that, like they only wanted me to move so they could invite this person back to the company. Of course, I didn’t let it affect my actions/interactions, etc. And I’m no longer at the company, so it’s not really relevant any more. Still, I can’t help but think that they wanted me to move just so Mace could come back.

      1. Stephern*

        Not necessarily a problem, more like I felt I was offered the job under false pretenses: “we want you to move here because you’re great!” versus “we want to you move b/c coworker wants to return”. Didn’t help that I ended up hating the new job (no training, crazy stress, etc). Just ruminating on the situation.

        1. Not Who I Think I Am*

          Reframe it like this: Mace was a valuable employee, and they wanted him back. So were you, so they came up with a plan to “have their cake and eat it too.” If they were unhappy, they could have canned you to make room for Mace. They made it work for all parties.

        2. Honeybee*

          They’re not really mutually exclusive. The timing could’ve been serendipitous, with a great employee (you) being poised to move to a different team at the same time Mace wanted to return.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Okay, let’s go with this. Let’s suppose they moved you so they could bring Mace back.

      This is pretty normal in companies. And yeah, they will tell you that you are great so that you do not think you are being punished for some unknown reason. They felt you would adapt to the new job that is part of what made your great.

      If you left the company and later wanted to come back, perhaps they would accommodate you in a similar manner.

      They kept you in the company. Think. They kept you in the company. Maybe that was the only job Mace could do well, but you could do other jobs well.

      I remember I lost time from work because of injuries. When I returned they gave me a job that was easier, far easier actually, than what I was doing before I left. I was upset. Additionally, I was upset because of being upset. I did not even want the old job and here I am almost in tears over this loss. My husband said to me, “What did they pay you to do OldJob? I said X. “What do they pay you to do new easier job?” The same pay, X.
      “Then what are you worried about?” he said.

      I forced myself to let it go. Years went by, what would have been my old job dissolved and went away. I did great with NewJob, I knocked it out of the park. Honestly, I forgot about the upset over OldJob.
      I think your best take away here, is that the company did something to try to retain you as an employee. Actions speak as loud as words. Just based on what you say here, they sound happy with your work. It’s fine to be upset over losing a position that you like. It’s fine to be angry with the company over it. But that upset/anger can erode our willingness to keep the new job. I realized if I did not let go, I would not keep the job that I did have.

      I worked one place where they would move you every few months. One day you are building widgets and the next day you are building gadgets. With some companies being moved around is just part of how they operate.

  58. paul*

    Yesterday afternoon and this morning have been spent bouncing between our local police department and CPS because someone decided to *leave their child* in our office building yesterday. when we realized the kids parent wasn’t someone that worked anywhere in the building, or a client using the building, we called the police. Kid didn’t know where they were either, or didn’t want to say. The parent came back a little after close and when I left they were arguing with the cop.

    We did get out of her they’re staying at the shelter I used to work at, so we’re trying to reach to her caseworker there too. Not sure how the police situation resolved itself yesterday.

    Fun fun times at work!

      1. paul*

        my coworker handled the police call yesterday; I’m (still) on hold with CPS, having gotten the kid’s name and age; I’d wager dollars to donuts the parents have a CPS case already so hopefully that’ll be enough for them to connect this to an ongoing case.

    2. Emi.*

      Oh goodness, that poor child! Kudos to you for helping them out. I hope things turn out all right.

    4. Former Retail Manager*

      When I worked retail, I worked at a store located in a part of town with various shelters and outreach centers nearby. We had a lady who brought her kids (between 6 & 10 years old) in during the summer and droped them off for 4-6 hours at a time….3-4 days per week. Turns out she was staying in one of the nearby shelters and looking for work and had nowhere else to take them. We had the means to entertain them because of the type of store that we were, so we told her we’d let her do it for 2 weeks, but that was it. In hindsight, not the best solution from a legal standpoint, but at least they were in the A/C and safe.

      1. WellRed*

        That was nice of your store. at our bookstore, we had a sign in the children’s dept: Any children left unsupervised will be given sugar and a puppy.

    5. Honeybee*

      See, this is my nightmare. I work in a role that requires more than occasionally working with children, although not as a guardian or any kind of supervisory capacity. My job recently changed some policies; originally, anyone under the age of 18 who came on-site had to have a parent with them at all times, but the new policy states that children over the age of 12 can stay here without a parent supervising them, and I feel icky about it.

      Ironically I feel icky because I USED to work with children in various caretaking roles and I know about allllllll the weird legal and liability issues that can come up with parents and children – parents leaving their kids behind, parents being ridiculously late to pick up their children because they think they’ve gotten free babysitting, children getting injured (minor or major) on-site and parents wanting to sue, or – my favorite nightmare – the child vanishing on the way to the bathroom or something. I also work in a building with hundreds of other people during the day, so I can imagine all sorts of other unsavory situations as well. Added to this, I am especially concerned because I am a mandatory reporter in my state, because of my weekend volunteer work.

      I brought up my concerns to my manager and the leadership had not thought through ANY of this. I brought up even the most common and low-level of potential incidents (kid stapling their finger, or kid slipping and falling, or cutting themselves on a soda can, or parent being an hour or more late for picking their kid up with no emergency contact) and it was clear from her reaction that no one on my team had really entertained this idea. They just assumed that all parents would act in a neat and orderly fashion 100% of the time. HA!

  59. JLK in the ATX*

    The only job offer I’ve received since re-starting my search in February could not tell me the work schedule, days/times or when I would be working. They were indignant that I would need to know this before accepting the office. The schedule would be 10 hours for the first 5-mos, 20 hours the next 2-mos and then full time for 1.5 months. This is the 2nd time this organization has treated me as if I had no work (or volunteer) investment with them.

    I’ve worked with this organziation, in another department, for four years, part-time/seasonal. I was internally referred and thought it was a great opportunity.

    In other news, my husband was laid off this week – and his professional network rallied around him. He already has 4 interviews and a contract. So we have that going for us.

  60. JustaTech*

    And a wee bit of venting. I applied for a job last night at a giant organization where not only was I required to provide 3 references as part of the application (I did) but they also asked for 5 YEARS of salary history.

    Thanks to everyone here I did not, and instead left a note saying that the salary should be based on the position, not my past pay.
    Good grief, why would they need 5 years of salary?

    1. JLK in the ATX*

      Because they’re evil and ignorant. Say no to salary history’s!

      I usually do a salary reviews on myself, in the position I’m applying for, and say – “based on my skills and experiences, I would command (or something in that avenue) a pay scale of this to that. “

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Good on you for not disclosing.

      That said, I get why they ask for 5 years… if they’re trying to lowball you. For example, let’s say this is what your 5-year history looks like:

      40K
      40.5K
      41K
      42K
      42.5K

      They see what measly “increases” you got, and then they’d feel confident they could lowball you with only 45K (let’s say the position should reasonably be 50-60K) knowing not only that that would be an increase from what you had before but a bigger increase than you’d ever gotten year to year.

    3. Chaordic One*

      They don’t need your 5 year history of past salaries and they probably are attempting to low-ball you. They’re (probably) a bit lazy. They are also not as professional as they should be.

  61. MsMarvel8591*

    Happy Friday everyone!

    I have worked in the customer service industry for about seven years and I am ready to break into a new field. I am currently a Human Resources Management major with a 4.0 and I would like to work in human resources if possible. Is there any way to make this career change? I am hoping to be able to have enough money to get the aPHR certification later this year, but I cannot do it right now . I also have been looking for HR internships but I am not having a lot of luck in that area either since I live on my own and would need to be paid enough to pay my bills.

    Any suggestions on how I can get my foot in the door?

    1. Wren*

      Bigger companies sometimes have an HR HelpDesk type position that will take you on with no industry experience, especially if you have customer service skills.

    2. Carefree Buttercup*

      If you have not already, hook up with your local SHRM chapter and the state chapter. This will help you network and get the word out. Also, look for any benefits brokers, HR temp agencies and go to all the free seminars you can. They all hold them often. You may/may not see a lot of the same people but keep putting your name and face out there. HR internships are scarce. I would say look for an admin type of job in a company that has HR. Then, you have a job and if you are not too busy, you can volunteer to help the HR department. Anywhere you can get in and volunteer to help HR is a bonus. I wish I had someone like that here. As the HR department of 1 for over 200 employees, it is very busy.

      1. MsMarvel8591*

        I will definitely look into some adminstrator type jobs and also check out the SHRM chapter as you have suggested. The company I am at has an HR department of only two people but I am really not interested in staying at my current company since the culture and leadership style doesn’t really gel with me.

        Thank you for the advise!

    3. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

      Look for HR Assistant or HR Associate positions – these are usually the entry-level positions that really only need good attention to detail and basic office skills. You can also try temp agencies, and be firm that you are looking specifically for HR Assistant positions. This is how I got my first HR gig, and they liked me so much I was converted at the end of my 6-month contract.

      Good luck!

      1. zora*

        Definitely check out some temp agencies! I had several long-term temp positions in HR departments in college/just after. And they would have been a great position to start from if I had wanted to stay in the field.

        1. zora*

          Also, about temp agencies. Most will have you come in and do a sit-down and do paperwork with them first. Either then or over the phone on your first call, you can tell them that this is what you are looking for! That you are trying to get into the HR field, and are looking for short term or long term positions in HR as a way to build some experience, and ask if they tend to get HR assignments and what they think your chances are.

          Some agencies will be upfront with you that they tend to focus on financial positions, or creative, or whatever, and give you an idea of the kinds of assigments you might get from them. So, don’t feel like you have to just throw the dice, agencies want to set up good fits for both the company and the employee, so you can totally talk to them about these things before registering.

          And, you also always get a chance to say no if they offer you gigs that aren’t a good fit for you for whatever reason. If you do that for every assignment for months, they will probably stop calling you, but you have a lot more control over what you do as a temp than I think most people assume.

  62. Audiophile*

    Happy Friday! Happy payday for those of us getting paid today!

    It feels like it’s been an excruciatingly long week.

    I think my project is kind of up in the air. I assume it will progress eventually, but other issues have come up that are more pressing.

    I was thinking the other day about how functional this organization is. While they have their problems, I’ve been seriously impressed with how well it’s run despite that. I’ve had an opportunity to feel like I’m making a difference pretty early on. With this project, as well as supervising volunteers/interns, I’m excited about the opportunities I’ve had so far to grow professionally. I’m hoping it continues over the next few months.

  63. ChronicIllnessHelp*

    Regular reader, but using an anonymous name for this. If this is more a personal than a professional thing, I can post in the weekend thread, instead (it sort of straddles both).

    I have a number of chronic illnesses and they’ve gotten especially bad in the past year. I work full time and struggle so much. Basically, all I do is work and then my parents and fiancee take care of me (my mom cooks and drives me to specialist appointments out of town, my fiancee does most of the cleaning and shopping (though I help if I feel up to it). I’ve done research into jobs that are chronic-illness-friendly and basically the job I’m already doing is about as easy as it gets, so I can’t just transition to a less taxing or better fit of a job (or if there is a job I haven’t heard of it).

    I have no idea what my options even are. I’ve always wanted to work full time and have been doing so most of the time since I graduated college, but I feel like if I worked part time, I could regain some of my life and be less exhausted all the time. Loss of benefits, impact to my retirement, and reduction in income are problems, though. Various specialists have talked about work in passing (one thought I might not be able to work, others are just surprised I’m still working).

    At first when I got sick and was exhausted and in pain, I thought I could push through until things got better. It’s gone on long enough, though, that I’m starting to realize that how I handle it isn’t sustainable long term.

    TL;DR: I feel like I’m too sick to work full time, but too poor to work part time. I have short and long term disability insurance through work, but I can’t imagine not working. I don’t even know how to wrap my head around this or where to start. I hope this makes sense. I just feel so lost and would love some help getting going in the right direction.

    1. LCL*

      See a counselor to help you work through your decisions. I’m sorry you are in this position. From what you write, you are stuck on seeing yourself as doing fulltime work or nothing. Someone impartial can help you get through this process. And if you haven’t already, get as much advice from knowledgeable people about the likely course of your conditions.

      1. ChronicIllnessHelp*

        Should I try to find a counselor who specializes in a certain area? I tried finding one before who works with people with chronic illnesses, but couldn’t find anyone within a reasonable distance. I think the most helpful thing would be to have information about options and logistical things so I have a good understanding of what is available to me so I can pick the best thing.

    2. Security SemiPro*

      I wish I had more for you. I’m not far off of your boat – chronic illness that is currently stable through the virtue of extremely flexible work schedule and my very will, or so it seems somethimes. A lot of my life is body maintenance that wouldn’t be possible without my salary and benefits. I don’t know how to be a poor sick person, and I can not really fathom how to be any sicker than I am and work full time. The doctor’s visits alone would be crushing. (I know a lot of people are and holy crap that is distressing. I’m very lucky.)

      I will say that my illness stabilized when I was able to take a few months off. I was able to focus on finding the precise right therapy and life balance that keeps my body together. And I’ve gone from having non functional due to pain days 1/wk to 2-3 a year. After that, I went back to work full time and I just do the maintenance that I know I need, rather than having to do round after round of life upheaval to try to fit in something that might help around work, and then try to see if it is helping while I was exhausted and in pain. If you think it could help to really tinker with how you live your life, you might find taking short term disability can get you someplace stable. Or it could really show you that no, your body cannot handle working full time, you need more care than that allows. But you’d at least know?

      While my job was tolerant of frequent pain days, I know I really love months of being basically pain free, or at least being able to walk reliably. Its super great and I wouldn’t have found how to get here without taking a significant break from full time work.

      Good luck.

      1. The OG Anonsie*

        Oh yeah, I saw a massive improvement when I took several months off between jobs. Partially this is because I was also changing from a very stressful job to a much calmer one, too, but I think if I had jumped straight it wouldn’t have been the same. Taking a vacation (even a physically exhausting one) periodically also makes a big difference for me because stress is massively exhausting all by itself, and since I’m not dealing with a huge amount of energy in the first place the drain is seriously limiting.

        The problem is that hopping off working full time for several months is not an easy thing to do, and taking a vacation is also not simple to just run off and do, so while it’s good advice it’s also kind of bad advice.

    3. Gov Worker*

      Work at home as a reasonable accommodation. Did wonders for me in managing the fatigue and low energy resulting from two chronic conditions.

      1. ChronicIllnessHelp*

        I would love to do this, but they will not consider this accommodation reasonable. I am split between offices and they wouldn’t even let me work the whole day from one of the offices (one of my myriad conditions is asthma and one office caused no problems while the other meant I was exposed to multiple things that triggered it). I’m glad it worked for you! I would love to be able to do that.

    4. The OG Anonsie*

      I feel you. Early on in my illness I had this same conflict, and I’ve thought a lot about what I will do when it advances in the future as well. Now I can comfortably work full time and I even go to the gym after work, do stuff on weekends… I don’t keep a clean house on my own and I still put off errands (and get as much stuff delivered as I can) which is what my boyfriend helps with the most.

      One thing is determining what your limits are and balancing them out. It took me a long time to figure out how to know what I could to in a given week, how to space it, and what to do the rest of the time to keep from getting fatigued. This is a trial and error process and what works will change sometimes to boot. I can tell you that pushing through it is very unlikely to ever be a good idea, though. I can also tell you that the higher stress your job, the more it’s going to drain you in the same number of hours.

      The terrible and unhelpful piece of advice I have is that you also have to find the treatment (whatever that may be for your condition) and lifestyle balance that keeps you in the best possible shape. This is also a long process and sometimes “best shape” is still not good shape at all, and if I heard a totally able-bodied person giving this advice I would tell them to stuff it. But I urge you to keep trying different things even if they seem stupid and pressing your doctors for help. Some specialists will sort of brush you off with an attitude of “yeah you’re sick, of course you feel bad, we can’t change it” which is crap. Even if you’ve reached the limits of what they can do for you, a good managing physician will be sympathetic and try to help you find ways to cope with and find accommodation for your issues. A shitty one will act like you’re being whiny and shoo you away.

      1. ChronicIllnessHelp*

        Thank you very much. I’ve definitely made progress in this area, but I obviously have a ways to go. I’ve scaled back commitments outside of work and in (asked for reasonable accommodations, didn’t renew a voluntary set of responsibilites that I had taken on), but I’m still exhausted all the time. I took two sick days recently (so I had four days off in a row) because my fiancee had been ill and it looked like I was coming down with what he had. I didn’t want to spread it to others, so I took it easy and rested for two days and, while I didn’t feel great, I felt better than usual. I feel like I’m working with less and less energy as time goes on even though I am doing less and less. I’m physically drained and I struggle to understand information and to talk coherently with other people, which was not at all the case before I became ill.

        I am glad you are in a place where your illness is mostly manageable. I hope I can find the right combination of factors to get me as well as I can be.

        If you don’t mind me asking, do you have any resources you would recommend on life with chronic illnesses?

        1. The OG Anonsie*

          Yeah, the biggest problem for me is that it becomes difficult to concentrate and understand things when things are acting up, which makes actually working a pretty tall order. Often when I’m feeling crappy, if I can just save the energy of getting going and just work from home I can actually produce relatively normally. You said your employer doesn’t see that as a reasonable accommodation, on which I have two comments: One is that they’re full of shit, and the other is that if you work somewhere that says “that’s not reasonable because we don’t like it and boo to you” then I can tell you right now that job is a big part of your problem. Having an unsympathetic workplace is draining and trying to keep up appearances for their persnickety little problems is a massive energy drainer that’s gonna screw it all up for you. So my top advice is now even worse than before, which is to strongly reconsider your current job and see where else you might be able to go.

          The other thing is that healthy people deal with illness differently than folks who are used to being chronically ill, and it sounds to me like you’re still framing it mentally the way a healthy person would frame a random contagious bug they caught here or there. It doesn’t work that way: there is a long game with a chronic illness, which is to stay functional for as many days at a time as possible even if that means moving things around or resting long before you are out of energy or feeling unwell. Able bodied folks take a weirdly proactive mentality towards healing, which I’ve always found super weird– they’ll start feeling unwell and they’ll attack it like it’s a job task. They’ll aggressively pump whatever meds and foods they consider healing into themselves and create a battle plan of all the ways in which they’ll refuse to let themselves actually be sick and keep on track. That doesn’t work for chronic illnesses where you’re dealing with fatigue, but it’s why a lot of regular folks look at us trying to keep it together so we can live our lives and don’t see us aggressively attacking our illness publicly and go ugh, they’re not even DOING anything to make it better, if they just took care of themselves they would be fine, they’re just making excuses.. Similarly, it’s part of why a lot of people who are new to being chronically ill flounder a lot at first trying to fight it. You don’t fight it, you work around it.

          Unfortunately I don’t have any resources I’ve found that are really great. But You Don’t Look Sick can be great for solidarity but not so much for gathering information that might be helpful. I worked in medical research for a long time and had access to resources (and an educational background) that most people didn’t, which was immensely helpful but not something I can refer people to. The other most useful sources of information for me have been a great rheumatologist I had who was very active in clinical research and always at the forefront of Things To Try and lifestyle modification, as well as others with similar health problems telling me what they do personally. A good managing physician is worth their weight in gold, let me tell you. They can also advocate for you with your job, and again, a doctor who is both willing to go to bat for you and experienced in applying pressure in the most effective but gentle way is extremely valuable.

          Try keeping a journal of how you feel and see if you can find patterns. I used an app called Pacifica for a long time, which is supposed to be for people with anxiety and other mental health struggles but is also perfect for this use. The free version has more than enough functionality to do this, though you could also just use a paper diary or a notepad or whatever, I found the app to be amazingly helpful at pulling out patterns that I would have otherwise overlooked. There’s a “thoughts” feature where you write in how you’re feeling and can tag out keywords, then have it map those out against your reported overall feeling over time. You can also track habits to make sure you’re staying on top of the things you know you need to do (or avoid), which again you can have it map out against how you feel. That way you can look at actual graphs and go, hey, when X thing comes up, my wellness drops off considerably, or doing Y boosts it a lot so I should prioritize that. It also has some guided relaxation and meditation things, thought trap exercises, etc which you might make use of.

    5. a person*

      I have no experience in this type of area, but I’ve heard that some disability insurance policies allow for part-time work or pay for special accommodations needed so the insured can work (everything from renovating the work space to paying for home health care). Is there an organization dedicated to helping people with your type of chronic illness? Even if it is national, they may have some guidance. Or maybe a social worker would be able to help you figure this out?

      Since there are no counselors specializing in helping those with chronic illnesses in your area, is video chat an option?

      Wishing you the best.

      1. ChronicIllnessHelp*

        I hadn’t heard of this, but I will look into it! I would LOVE to work part time, but I barely make enough money full time as it is. I also don’t want to just find a part time position and lose my disability insurance benefits in case my conditions worsen (and any one of them could). Thank you so much.

        1. Disability benefits*

          Usually with the disability benefits for working part-time, you still end up getting the disability rate of pay between your part-time work & the policy…not what you are currently making. Some will allow you to work & receive 100% of your salary between the policy benefits & the part-time job but the 100% is usually only for 12-24 months. Then you go back to the 60 or 66% limit (or whatever % your policy pays if you were not working).

          Definitely get a copy of your policy & read it before deciding to work part-time.

  64. Woosicle*

    Looking for some input regarding a situation at work that I may be overreacting about…

    I work in a small office of about a dozen employees. I am in a department of three which consists of my boss, one other co-worker who is senior to me and myself. My boss and co-worker have both been with the organization since they were in their early 20’s and are now in their mid 30’s. I have been here for the past two years and am in my late 20’s.

    My boss and my co-worker are very close. I’m not sure if they are truly best friends, but they are very good friends at the very least. I believe my boss is godmother to one of my co-worker’s daughters. They spend a lot of time in each other’s offices and go to lunch together almost daily. When it’s slower sometimes these lunches will last 2+ hours. They will usually offer to grab me something while they go out to eat but I’m never invited to join them. I have on occasion been invited to social events outside of work (like birthday parties) but I mostly see them in the office.

    This might sound petty, but the relationship between my boss and my co-worker sometimes makes me feel a little left out. I have felt like the third wheel for the past two years now and am starting to grow resentful. Is this just something I need to get over and deal with? Is it even worth mentioning my feelings to my boss? Overall I enjoy my job and the laid back atmosphere within my office, but I often find myself wishing we were a department of four instead of three so that I wouldn’t feel like the odd one out all the time.

    1. Tempest*

      My instinct is that you’ll have to learn to deal with not being part of this inner circle or move on.

      Effectively they’re good friends if one stood up for the other’s child. They leave you to cover the office while they take two hour lunches. Maybe in years and years you might start to become a friend not just a colleague but it sounds like their relationship already bugs you. It would bug me too but it also is what it is and it’s unlikely to change.

      I personally think talking to your boss about how you feel about it is going to make things weird. She’s not suddenly going to decide to stop being your colleague’s friend as well as boss, and she’s not suddenly going to decide her relationship with you is just as close as she has with this other person she’s known for years longer.

      Again, personally, I think I’d be job searching just because I would struggle being the third wheel on a small team of three as well, but I think your options are make peace with it or move on. I don’t think one where you insert yourself into their friendship exists and I can’t see what else you’re hoping to achieve by talking to your boss about it given the circumstances. Is there any scope for you to collaborate or spend time with some of the people not on your team? That might help.

      1. Woosicle*

        Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I don’t necessarily feel like I need to become great friends with them, I have my own close group of friends outside of work – but you’re right, I wouldn’t accomplish much by talking to my boss about their friendship. It’s not really fair of me to expect them tone things down for my sake and I expect if they were aware of how I was feeling they may feel uncomfortable and start walking on eggshells around me.

        I have been trying to forge friendships outside of my department, and while I am friendly with other co-workers a lot of them are already paired off within their own respective departments. We have graduate interns who rotate through on a yearly basis, and I end up working with the interns more closely than anyone else. Because of this I usually become pretty close with our interns, but whenever they graduate and move on I’m back to square one. It’s possible our staff may expand this summer so my situation may change, but only time will tell. If this starts to bother me enough I may start a job search, but for now I will do my best to deal with it and not dwell on it too much.

    2. paul*

      I don’t think you’re going to change this dynamic; Tempest is right.

      I’d be pretty irked too fwiw; if they’re taking 2+ hour lunches and leaving you alone, and you don’t get to reciprocate, that’s crappy.

      1. Woosicle*

        Thanks, honestly it does help a little to know my feelings aren’t completely unjustified. I can be a little on the sensitive side so wasn’t really sure if this was just me being hyper sensitive or if others would feel the same if they were in my position.

        1. Tempest*

          Gosh, this would be sending my anxiety through the roof to be honest! Like logically I’d know all the things I said above about the years they’ve known each other and their dynamic being slightly toward an unhealthy level of friendship for a manager/managee situation in an office and nothing to do with me, but the voice in my head would be telling me all the things I might have done to cause them not to like me as much as they like each other. I would personally be in second guessing myself hell. So I really don’t think the things you feel aren’t totally natural.

          I do think taking a two hour long lunch knowing they’re leaving you to fend for yourself is totally out of order but if it’s been going on for over a decade I also think it’s going to be the status quo and it’s unlikely to change.

          I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you that your team grows by one or two and you get someone you click with :)

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Yeah.
            Your boss is not a very good boss. She manages one person and lets you flounder. Not professional.

  65. Anon for current purposes*

    I have a follow-up question re: a couple weeks back when I asked about learning programming myself.

    I’m currently in the Northeast, a few miles north of NYC, and plan to look for programming work either there, the capital region, or somewhere in-between.

    Being still semi-new to the area, I’m not sure what exactly is out there in terms of in-demand skills. Having a bunch of friends out on the West Coast, I have an idea of what Google or Microsoft want, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that differed from the skills demand in my area.

    What specific skills are employers looking for here? What particular subfields of programming and software development are in this geographic area and offer significant employment prospects (adjusting for my M.S. Electrical Engineering, non-CS background and what is likely to be several months to a year of difficult, stubborn self-directed training and getting relevant certificates, if I’m being optimistic)?

    Thanks!

    (I understand that there might be “hotter” areas farther away, but I’m not in a position where I can afford relocation expense without a sold job offer waiting for me on the other side. My strategy is to build up initial resume experience by working local to the area, to avoid relocation expense, and then, after getting some names on my resume, to possibly relocate if that’s something I decide that’s what I want to do. This is not to knock on hot tech development areas; rather, to recognize that in my current situation, I am a beggar and not a chooser.)

    1. LegacyDev*

      What’s hot in silicon valley is also hot in silicon alley. We might have a disproportionate amount of advertising and marketing companies, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Lots of financial tech due to location, that’s probably a real difference. But regardless, there’s everything from javascript frontend to functional programming backend to system administration to teaching. We have gamedev companies and google offices. So basically, worry more about being good than about what specific thing to be good at.

      1. Anon for current purposes*

        Do you have general recommendations as to languages/programming paradigms? I’ve heard conflicting opinions re:whether object oriented is still a thing, with both yes and no coming from experienced industry hands that I trust.

    2. Security SemiPro*

      In case its useful, electrical engineering/systems analysis stuff maps really well for a bunch of network/computer security stuff.

      A bunch of my staff has a CompSci background, but a solid half of my group, including myself, comes from math, statistics, or various flavors of engineering backgrounds. Chemical and Electrical engineering seem to fit really well with the kinds of system safety analysis that is high level/wide scale security work in tech.

      Its a field with functionally negative unemployment. Simple scripting, a willingness to learn, and some basic security principles on top of almost any rigorous math based background are enough for a lot of things. (there are pros and cons to that truth for the industry, but its still pretty easy to get into.)

      1. Anon for current purposes*

        Security and cryptography are things I’ve been interested in, due to the math I’ve seen in textbooks I’ve found.

        What would you suggest studying if I wanted to break into one/both of these areas? I have a few books on elliptical functions and coding theory that I’ve taken a look through, but that I would need to study in more detail before I’m fluent.

    3. Anon for current purposes*

      Hey, thanks for the help guys! And for putting up with my chronic questions!

      I’ve got a real love of math, logic, and abstraction, and feel like software development is a really good match for my skills based on my reading so far. Thanks for helping out!

    4. Honeybee*

      If relocation is an option for you, do note that most of the biggest tech companies offer generous relocation packages.

      Also, I’m not a software developer but in my experience the big companies hire lots of electrical engineers into development roles. A lot of the interns and brand new grads (college hires) I’ve met were EE majors in undergrad. So I wouldn’t underestimate that degree!

  66. Jbelly*

    Any advice for handling a supervisor who is much more junior than you, only approves timesheets/vacation requests, and doesn’t do or understand the type of work you do? I’m a senior-level consultant. She is an administrative assistant. The contract firm needs an onsite contract supervisor. I also work on sensitive tasks, which I allude to in my performance review – and would feel uncomfortable mentioning these in my performance review if I knew the onsite person would then have access to that information, however generalized. The previous supervisor, also an admin assistant, liked to micromanage my vacation days and pretend she knew more than she did. It was always awkward dealing with her.

  67. AnotherAnonPerson*

    If this is too much of a stretch for a work thread, please delete.

    I have an old friend who is in bad financial shape. The tl;dr version is that she’s about 40 and her husband is about 50, and they have two kids and have been scraping by off his social work salary and handouts from family for the last 15 years. She is now heavily pushing her GoFundMe campaign to get their car A/C fixed.

    I’m honestly dumbfounded. My friend used to be an LPN, but hasn’t worked since her kids were born. The youngest kid is 10. I know it’s not always easy to get a job, and LPN work isn’t the best, but it’s something, and I have to think sometime in the past 5 years, a job could have been obtained. Am I being an uncompassionate jerk? I feel like if they had had some really bad luck, or they were both working 2 jobs, I might want to help, but this is just ongoing life stuff. I want to tell her I can help her with job resources but not money. . .but I will just stay silent.

    1. ann perkins*

      I used to have similar frustrations with a coworker whose wife insisted on staying home with the kids and as a result they were barely scraping by. He talked about money problems at work a lot, which I do not think is appropriate (and btw, would still buy lunch every day). It’s hard to be sympathetic sometimes.

    2. Biff*

      It may depend on state-to-state, but I know that in Washington, you must continue training to remain an LPN. So she may very well NOT be an LPN now. In regards to getting a job, in Idaho, LPNs are being phased out everywhere expect nursing homes. I think in Washington they still used them in more settings, but that’s partly because in Washington the standards for being an LPN are higher.

    3. paul*

      I get where you’re coming from.

      I’m a parent, and my wife and I both work. I get why someone might decide to have a person stay home with the kid(s) but that comes with trade-offs you know? It’s one thing to ask for your support network to help out some, particularly with things like emergency child care say…but when you’re relying on them for ongoing, day to day expenses like car maintenance or rent, you need to start looking at having both parents work, or your budget or both…

    4. Former Retail Manager*

      You are not being an uncompassionate jerk. If your friends wish to live their life that way, then they can deal with the consequences of their own decisions. I had a friend like this as well. I eventually cut her out of my life because she failed to see the connection between her own poor choices and the outcomes of those choices and expected everyone to help her out. And people that didn’t help “weren’t real friends/were mean/self-absorbed, etc.” As for the GoFundMe….if I could donate $.01, I would. (not sure what the minimum amount is, as I refuse to contribute to anyone’s GoFundMe. Fund your damn self.

    5. Anxa*

      Perhaps should couldn’t afford to keep her license up? Whether the fees or not being able to attend the classes? Does someone have a medical need for car A/C?

      Also, it can be frustrating to witness that, but I had applied to a slew of jobs that people think you can just walk into (general labor, landscape, retail, food service) with absolutely no luck for years.

      1. Chaordic One*

        You really are correct, Anxa, about how hard it can be to get hired for even a seemingly entry-level job such as the ones you’ve mentioned.

    6. Chaordic One*

      Yes, these people really are kind of a PITA, and have made some poor decisions. I have some friends in a similar situation, husband works for peanuts at a religious organization well known for its charitable work while the wife is a stay-at-home wife. They have a grown special needs child living with them and are heavily dependent on financial aid from the wife’s elderly mother. I don’t know what they’ll do when the elderly mother passes away.

    7. Lady Bug*

      A go fund me for car a/c? Unless someone in the family has a medical need or you live somewhere that is regularly over 100 degrees, that’s an unnecessary expense and you are not an uncompassionate jerk. If she chooses not to work, that’s her choice and there is nothing wrong with that, but you do not have to fund their luxuries.

  68. imakethings*

    My company lays people off at the end of pay periods. That day is today. I caught my boss having a secret interview outside of our building last week and am paranoid they’re replacing me under the pretense of saving money. I’m really okay with it (more amused than anything), but waiting around to see if it’ll happen is annoying. I’ve been job hunting and wouldn’t mind a little time off to relax and wrap up other projects.

    Anyway, I drove in (I usually use transit) in case I had to lug some stuff home. Life is weird. Happy Friday!

  69. Anonner Moose*

    So I have a professional contact who has been heavily recruiting me to come to her company, which does work that is it totally dissimilar to mine (and people with my background often go into it) but dissimilar enough that it’s not a stretch to say I have no experience in it directly. They told me a long time ago to try to get a portfolio of anything I could possibly get my hands on that I had worked on, which I took a bit of a whack at but I have not really done anything a person would put in a portfolio and most of my work is no longer available to me (since I don’t work at those place anymore). For reference, their field uses portfolios as a standard and mine does not ever. Suddenly a job opened up and they/HR contacted me to apply. It had been long enough that this wasn’t on my radar anymore so it was a surprise.

    It’s been almost two weeks since they sent me the listing. The application system asks a lot of questions including a request for a link to an online portfolio. I don’t know what to do about this and the fact that I’ve taken so long on it so far (HR followed up now and said they’re looking to start interview soon to make sure I was still planning to apply) is stressing me out to no end. I have had a heinously busy couple of weeks and the timing couldn’t be worse, I have such little time and energy to spend on this and it’s such a project *yanks hair*

    Can anyone in a portfolio-using industry please tell me what the heck people who are transitioning in are expected to have? What are people expecting you to do to host an online portfolio? I do own a domain (with nothing in it) and was tempted to just make a document of the few piddling things I have, host it there, and link them to the download but I think that’s not what they want to see. For reference I’m not a designer or anything, most of my relevant work has involved making plain text documents for the public– of which I only have a couple that I can still access.

    1. Fictional Butt*

      Have you asked your contact about this? She might have some insight into how people in your situation create portfolios. And if she is “heavily recruiting” you, that might mean your portfolio won’t matter that much.

    2. JulieBulie*

      If the application system doesn’t require a link, then skip it.

      But if it does, do exactly what you said, even though you know it is not what they want to see. Maybe somewhere at that link you can say “I know this isn’t a real portfolio! I don’t have one, but the application system required a link.”

  70. Revolver Rani*

    Sooooo after being a team lead for about a year and a half yesterday I got promoted to actual manager (of the team I was leading). I’m scared out of my wits, and very glad I’ve been read AAM for as long as I have.

    In the short term not a lot will change in the day-to-day, they tell me. I still report to the same person I reported to before, and I’ll just keep doing all the things I’ve been doing as team lead, with her for backup when I’m not sure how to make a decision. It feels really different, though, and over time she will start stepping back and leaving things more to me.

  71. Critter*

    I wonder if this is a common thing, or we have particularly odd staff. We’ve got our summer daycare program coming up, and lots of our staff want to work it. They are only contracted to work through the end of the school year, though, which does not include summer, so the supervisor can assign staff at their discretion, and no one is guaranteed to be offered work. We do have one person who has been out for the better part of a month with an injury, and will be starting physical therapy soon. The summer program starts in two weeks, and none of us really expect her to be well enough to come back to work, but because her contract is ending, she will not be able to be paid sick leave, and will have no source of income. I get that. But I do wonder why she’d tell us that and expect us to fix that for her. We’re not required to offer her work, it’s really not best for her health-wise, and summer is a demanding schedule (child care itself being a demanding job, period). If I had a nickel for every time I heard “what am I supposed to do?”, I’d be so rich, guys. This a common thing, too. This time it’s her, but it does happen fairly frequently. One of our staff actually yelled at our supervisor over the phone, demanding work. It’s baffling. Do I just work with some really odd people?

    1. Princess Carolyn*

      Well, you work in a field that grossly underpays its employees. And, apparently, your company does school year contracts but doesn’t prorate the pay to give employees a steady income for 12 months. Neither of those things is your fault, but it kind of guarantees you’ll continue dealing with employees who react strongly to any interruption in their income.

      Is there any way to make it more clear early on that there’s no guarantee of summer work? Can you provide more transparency about how you pick who gets summer work and who doesn’t?

      1. Critter*

        They get their letters from HR every year that assures them of their job start when the school year begins, with pretty clear wording that they can’t guarantee summer work. Most people in our department have been working in their positions for several decades, so many of them are used to the cyclical nature of the work. I’m not sure how else to communicate it.

    2. Anxa*

      I understand your frustration with this, but I think some would argue that it’s not really up to you to determine what’s best for her health-wise.

      Especially if she’s cash strapped. People with access to healthcare or financial security are usually the most likely to assume they know better than others without those things, but even if she’s wrong.. you really should be careful about assuming you know what’s best for her. A little extra stress and exhaustion to keep yourself insured or fed? No contest (if that’s the case).

      1. Critter*

        I guess my boss is wary of assigning someone she knows is having physical therapy for her injury, since she may have restrictions. Summer’s tough; it’s hot, the kids can be restless, bus field trips and walking field trips are hard. She might also be thinking of the possibility of another onsite injury.

        1. Anxa*

          I don’t really know what IS appropriate, I’ve mostly had informal jobs and never really qualified for things like FMLA or worker’s comp, so if it’s that kind of job there can be a whole other element to it. I think there may be a way to be pragmatic about the physical requirements of the job without being paternalistic about it.

    3. zora*

      Because they are scared and don’t know who else to talk to or what to do, so it comes out as anger and they take it out on you. Logically, it’s clear that that isn’t going to help them get work or money, but they are in a scary place and not thinking logically. I feel for you that it’s not really fair that you have to be the one dealing with it, but I feel for them, too, because in our society they are powerless and voiceless and have very precarious lives.

      It might help to think about that when they are saying things, or yelling, and try to remember that it’s not really directed at you? I’m sorry, it’s not a great answer, but I don’t think it’s going to stop anytime soon.

  72. Brogrammer*

    I was recently approached by a recruiter from a local company for a job similar to what I’m doing at my current company, and I’m mildly interested because Potential New Company offers a better vacation package and 401k matching. A few months ago I would have jumped at the opportunity but I’m less eager now because I have a new boss who I like a lot and overall company culture is improving.

    PNC has a pretty good overall rating on GlassDoor but there are a few recent negative reviews that give me pause (and the most recent review is a positive one that basically says “the only con is there are no cons,” so I’m a little suspicious). It’s a pretty big company though, so is it feasible to think that there could be some solid departments and some dysfunctional ones? Is this a case where it’s a good idea to look on LinkedIn for someone at PNC with the job title I’d be applying for and asking them to lunch or drinks to chat about how they like their job?

    1. JulieBulie*

      I work for a large company that has a lot of conflicting reviews on Glassdoor. I’ve noticed that the positive ones are usually very brief and they all tend to look alike.

      However, it’s very likely that some parts of the company are great and some are horrid. Not so much because of the job title, but because of the culture within the specific department. Often you can tell as soon as you walk through the door for your interview with little cues such as: is anybody smiling, is it deathly quiet (don’t get me wrong, I like quiet, but it’s abnormal for a cubicle farm to be THAT quiet), etc.

      But yeah, definitely see if you can talk to someone at PNC and get some insight. Make it clear that you just want to get some idea of the culture. But also take whatever they say with a grain of salt; one person’s perception is only that.

  73. You mean I'm worth money??*

    My former bosses have asked for my help as a consultant with buying and setting up a new computer. They’re nice people and I’m happy to help out, but I don’t know what to charge for my time. How do I know what a fair rate is? Should I charge by the hour, or a flat rate for the job? I know money was tight while I was working there (I was massively underpaid) and probably still is; should I take that into account when I quote a rate, or let them counter-offer if they think it’s too high? For what it’s worth, I have a regular weekday job so this would be extra money, and I estimate (knock on wood!!) that the actual set-up will only take a couple hours. I’m really bad at correctly valuing my time and skills, so any help would be greatly appreciated!

    1. paul*

      set up a personal computer or a work one? What all is involved? Any specialized software? Is it going on a network and will it need access to networked resources?

      1. You mean I'm worth money??*

        Set up a new accounting computer. They need help picking out the right machine, then the accounting software and database will need to be transferred from the old computer to the new one, and the old computer turned into an appropriate workstation for a different user. The new computer is connecting to a workgroup network and will only need access to one shared folder and will not be sharing any folders on the network. Last time I moved the accounting software (when I worked there) it was an utter trainwreck, and old!boss is worried that their new IT kid doesn’t have the specific experience to handle it. However, part of the trainwreck was because the version we had been using was so ancient, and I think – I HOPE! – the process will go much more smoothly this time. But there’s always that chance that something will come up that I didn’t expect….

        1. KR*

          I did similar work and I was paid 22/hr. I think that’s a fair rate but your experience may vary. Make sure you let them know that since the software is finicky, it may not be instantaneous and you will not know how long exactly it will take. You should be paid for all your time spent sitting around waiting for the PC to load (this sounds like an ancient system). I would lay out a scope of work that they want done, so you can check it off and everyone is on the same page about what the finished product will look like. You may also want to include in that list creating documentation about the new system, how it’s set up (in case their new IT kid needs to work on it some day) and how-tos if they’re going over to a new operating system.

    2. Beancounter Eric*

      Why not just say “Make me an offer”? They throw out a number, you either take it or counter.

      Consider this, though:It’s a couple of hours of after-work moonlighting, you used to work for the people and they are nice people, and money is tight in their business. Perhaps do it out of the goodness of your heart – you never know what dividends that may pay.

      1. You mean I'm worth money??*

        They said we “could discuss compensation” during our phone call today, so they might make an offer. But more likely they will ask me for a figure; they both self-admit to being “clueless about this stuff” and wouldn’t know what an appropriate sum is.

        I like these folks but the goodness of my heart doesn’t pay credit card bills. They already think I’m the bees’ knees – I don’t need to work for free to impress them.

        2. Silver Radicand*

          Usual guide for contractor work is twice what you get as an employee to account for taxes and also some for benefits. So if you used to make $15/hr and this seems on that level of difficulty, $30/hr as a contractor would be fair.
          On that note, especially given that upgrading computers can involve encountering unknown errors, I’d give an time estimate that is twice what you think it should take to account for snags.

    3. Melody Pond*

      What would they have paid you to do that same work, as an employee?

      Just to use some random numbers – for me, if they would’ve paid me $15/hour as an employee while I was there, then I would’ve netted a little less than that in actual income, after taxes. Let’s say I want to actually net $15/hour (after taxes) for the work they want me to do – it’s comparable to what I would’ve gotten as an employee.

      So I would just do a little math. Some quick research tells me that the 2017 self-employment taxes are 15.3% on the first $127,200 (which it sounds like you probably will not exceed, in self-employed earnings). Then, for me, I normally earn around $50K per year, so that puts me in a marginal tax bracket of 25%.

      15.3% + 25% = 40.3%
      $15/(1-0.403) = approx. $25.13/hour

      So… if I want to net out about $15/hour from the work I do for them, I would probably charge them about $25/hour.

      Side note – I believe you only have to pay self-employment taxes on self-employment earnings when they exceed $400, for Federal tax purposes. So if you don’t think this would exceed that, then you could leave self-employment taxes out of your calculations.

  74. Amber Rose*

    I have to send two guys to this 2 day leadership class next week and oh gosh, they have not stopped pestering me about what it will be like and complaining about how long it is. I took it last year and thought it was pretty interesting. I gave them my notes and had a strong nostalgic sense of being in high school again.

    Is it that weird that I enjoy these little courses? It’s a break from work that you get paid for and all you have to do is hang out with some old guys (sadly, the leadership course is almost always ALL dudes) and talk about stuff.

    Anyways I’m on vacation officially as of 4:30pm today and I have zero motivation to work on ANYTHING. What should I do to kill time?

    3. JulieBulie*

      It’s not weird that you like these things. And mine was a Women in Leadership course, so there were no old guys. (Not that I mind old guys. But this was specifically to discuss things from a female perspective.)

      1. Amber Rose*

        I wish there was a women’s course, but this is a generic leadership in safety course, and it was apparently weird enough to have me there that it actually threw off the teacher a bit.

  75. Rebecca*

    Wish me luck. I’m going to ask my manager to move to another office with other people, or for my own office (we have a few empty offices in my building).

    Long story short, when I returned to this job, I was assigned to share an office with 2 coworkers. It’s not working for me. I’m constantly distracted, it’s too hot (they have heaters and it’s often over 80 degrees in here because they are always cold/I’m cooking to death), and our work ethics are very different. There is a lot of swearing (F word many times per day), complaining, texting, that type of thing, and I’m finding I’m having more and more trouble concentrating. I’m also getting some new responsibilities, and when I’m on conference calls, people just burst in and start talking loudly about pictures on Facebook, asking me questions, etc. and don’t take the the time to find out if I’m on the phone or working on something.

    Ugh. I don’t want to complain, I’m glad to be back, but I need a new office environment soon.

      1. Clever Name*

        My thoughts exactly. My former officemate insisted on not wearing socks and wearing a tshirt when it was below freezing and then cranking the heater up to 80+ (this was my personal heater purchased with my money). I’d walk in wearing a sweater and boots and instantly start sweating. I’m not sorry at all he moved offices. While being cold sucks, I think being hot is worse.

  76. Danae*

    Job search fun times:

    I had three interviews this week. One of them had changed the job requirements, and fortunately the interviewer was up front about the rate, so we mutually agreed not to move forward. 10/10 would apply again, though. I’ll be keeping my eyes open for more jobs from this agency.

    The second interview: I would have been fantastic at the job–probably too fantastic, to be honest. During the interview, the interviewer asked me what I was looking to make, I responded with a range slightly below my usual range (because it was a nonprofit and the job was less technical than I usually do). The interviewer spluttered a bit and asked me just how flexible I was. When I tried to find out how much they wanted to pay for this position, she said (and this is a direct quote), “That’s confidential, I’m sure you understand.” I won’t be applying for any other jobs with them.

    Third interview: went well, I thought, and the position would be a great fit for me and something of a stretch for my skills. However, after two weeks of talking to these folks, I still have no idea what the salary range for this position is! I’ve been asked for my range a couple of times (and now I regret dropping my range even a little, because after talking to the manager I realized that the position is actually more senior than the job ad made it sound), and I get the impression I’m probably asking for more than they want to pay, but I have no idea what the difference is between what I want and what they’re offering. Overall, so not impressed with this recruiting process–but they’re the largest employer in the area for what I do, so I’m going to stick with the process and see what falls out.

    1. JLK in the ATX*

      Boo to that non-profit who thought their salary range was confidential. I’ve been in non-profit for 17 years and I’ve never heard of that. The only reason I think they thought it was confidential is because they don’t want the public to know what they pay people, thus give some insight of their ‘overhead’ which is a sensitive topic for non-profits. The community thinks most non-profits should be run by volunteers (sigh) and are befuddled when we pay good people good salaries.

      1. Danae*

        I’m more amused than anything else, mostly because the nonprofit interview happened after another interview where the interviewer was cagey about what the position pays. I’d looked them up on GuideStar before the interview, so I had an idea of their financials and the fact that they’re doing well enough that they could pay competitive salaries if they wanted to.

        1. JLK in the ATX*

          I’ve worked with very few non-profits who didn’t pay well, or attempt to pay as well as possible and added in a lot of time off and flexibility (which for me is valuaable). I’d like to think that the non-profit sector is doing better in communicating that paying people is the only path to high dollar productivity. I had one that didn’t want to pay the lower level staff well simply because ‘we’re a non-profit, we don’t have to’ despite having 6-figures in the bank.

  78. Anon for this*

    Has anyone here taken a course through General Assembly? I’m looking to get out of publishing and am thinking about taking their digital marketing course in San Francisco. It’s a big commitment (money and time wise) so I will probably dip my toe in first with a one-day workshop or some free/low-cost online courses, but I’m really drawn to the idea of the longer course and am curious about others’ experiences. Maybe I’m just drawn to making a dramatic gesture since I really want to make a change… Anyway, any thoughts appreciated!

  79. sorbus*

    A little over a year ago, the company I worked for was a client for a consultancy. I made a lot of friends in the consultancy who all agreed that I would be a shoe-in if I applied there. I took a job on the other side of the country in another industry, but I still miss the city I used to live in, and applied for a job at the consultancy there. A few weeks ago, I interviewed, and I thought I did pretty well, but got rejected (with the explanation that they were looking for someone with more experience). They did refer me to a local office, and I had my interview yesterday. I thought it went well, but at the end of the interview, one of my interviewers let slip that although many people have applied, it’s been over a year since they hired a single person at this office. In addition to being rather annoyed that they wasted everyone’s time with the interview in the first place (although the interview was enjoyable and I learned some new skills), I’m also wondering how much longer I should press on in applying there. They are a really cool company and I’d be ecstatic to work there, but I suspect it will be a long time before I’ll get that opportunity.

  80. NylaW*

    Our office is going through some remodeling to make the data center larger, which means 4 people currently in cubicles have to relocate. After all the office/space shuffling, I’m going to end up in a small cubby-hole like space that’s part of a hallway walk-through area that connects one part of our department with another. My boss has said they’ll put up a wall to make it an “office” but there’s an awkward jog on one wall, the walls don’t line up with the doorways at either end of the hall, and with a wall it’s going to feel small and almost claustrophobic by the time you put my L shaped desk in there. I’m also going to have to share this space with the new hire I am mentoring. I’ve been at the company the longest out of anyone else in my department, except my boss, I’ve been in my position for longer than anyone else in my department, and I have a title that places me hire than everyone else. But I feel like I’m getting the shaft here.

    Is it just me, or am I getting the short end? I feel like it’s so petty to complain about this but I really hate sharing office space. I’m a huge introvert and it takes a lot of energy out of me to be social able and be around people at work. I love the space I’m in now, and my cubicle setup makes it feel private and office-like but with the openness of not having a door. But other staff are going to be moved there so I “have to go somewhere.” I don’t know how to bring this up to my boss without sounding whiny and petty, but it really bugs me.

    1. Security SemiPro*

      Is it a permanent or a temporary move? Can your job be done a day or two from home, or is there another piece of flexibility that would help and you’d want?

      I think you could at least explain that sharing a closed in space like that would be really distracting and you’re concerned that your work would suffer. If its temporary and you can do some working from home for days you need to focus, your boss might be willing to ‘budget’ for the productivity loss.

      If this is the new space though – ugh. Mention your concern, try to sound willing to give it a shot and then ask for the ability to take the next office space/decent cube that opens up, as a perk for taking the crappy hole in the wall space for now.

      I think you can bring it to your boss as a concern, along with a handful of solutions you’d be happy to try. Just whining about seniority and perks would turn me off as a manager, but bringing a thoughtful plan to try to help the team through a rough spot would be much more appreciated.

  81. Jan Levinson*

    This is still a ways in the future for me, but I’d love to hear all your thoughts.

    My husband will be graduating grad school in less than a year. He will be getting into a hugely growing job field, and will likely start off at a very high salary. We would like to start trying for children soon after he graduates. From your experience as a new mother or father, was it ever more optimal for you to stay home with your baby while your spouse worked full time, than for both you and your spouse to work, and pay for full-time day care? My supervisor once told me what she pays weekly for her toddlers to go to day care full time, and I about fell out of my chair. Another coworker told me her day care was more expensive than the mortgage on her house. Please share your experiences!

    1. Jan Levinson*

      For some background, I currently make $43k/year, and he will be making around $100k/year. We live in the midwest, in an area with very low cost of living.

    2. gwal*

      also interested in this information. oh how I wish US policies to address this kind of issue were dominating the news cycle… (too political? sorry!)

    3. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      It costs us about $800/mo for one child in full-time daycare, so yes, with two kids it’d be significantly more expensive than my mortgage – and that’s a killer deal on daycare. However, we still come out with a significant net gain with my wife working full time, and our finances are significantly healthier than they were when she was not working.

    4. paul*

      Our kids are in day care 3 days a week and cost us as much as our damn mortgage–and it’s a cheap day care!

      If our income/insurance situation wasn’t what it is, one of us would probably stay home, but I make better (but still blah) money than she does, but her insurance is *hugely* better than mine; it’s cheaper for the whole family to be on hers than it would be for me to sign up for what we have.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        Yeah, we saved like $600 a month on insurance through my wife’s work. That’s as good as salary, right there.

      2. Bea W*

        I remember the day a co-worker’s child aged out of day care. She called it a $1200/month pay raise.

    5. fposte*

      Remember not just to factor the cost of daycare vs. the cost of your income. There’s also your affected career trajectory, lost space in IRAs and other retirement accounts, loss of quarters contributing to Social Security, etc. While I don’t think “What if there’s a catastrophe?” should be a deciding factor, it’s worth thinking about where you and the kid(s) would be if your husband was killed in a freak Yeti-discovery accident.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        All of this. Plus, there’s a certain type of Facebook mama who will judge another mother very hard over this, but my wife likes being a professional, likes her profession, and likes contributing to our family and her individual finances. And, frankly, she doesn’t like being a toddler’s live-in butler, maid, outsourced emotional coping mechanism, playmate, and outsourced impulse control 24/7.

        1. Gloucesterina*

          Chiming in with The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist–know thyself. I know I’m not called to childcare as my vocation, because if if I were, I’d be working in childcare!

        2. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

          I would have been childfree by choice if being a stay at home mom was the only option. I nearly lost my mind during my 6-week maternity leave as it was. I am not in the least wired to be a full-time caregiver, but that doesn’t mean I’m not still a good mom.

      2. anonymouse*

        Please do not discount the loss of career trajectory! If you opt of working, you’ll be losing years’ worth of raises, promotions and career advancement opportunities, not just salary.

      3. AnotherAlison*

        I was going to add the same thing. We actually had our oldest kid in daycare so that I could be a F/T student and finish undergrad “on time.” Our second was also in daycare full time, and at that time, my husband was starting a business and not making any money at all. Now, with the youngest at age 12, we are both in really good places with our careers and income.

        If it’s really important to stay home for other reasons, by all means, do it, but if it’s a math-based decision, the long-term situation probably does not benefit by you staying home.

      4. neverjaunty*

        YES. You see so many of those fake-math articles that say you* should stay home because salary minus daycare equals working for free. The opportunity cost of leaving the workforce is not to be sneezed at.

        Of course, that doesn’t mean you must rush back to paid work if that isn’t what’s best for your family and your preferred choice. Just that the cost of daycare is far from the only trade-off.

        *funnily enough, “you” is never “dad”

    6. Temperance*

      I think it’s important to not just think about it in terms of your salary – daycare = not worth working, but thinking about the permanent impact on your career if you step out of the workforce.

    7. Gloucesterina*

      Nice question! Like your husband, I’m a grad student and university instructor; my partner works for a non-profit and is a practicing artist, and our child is in full-time daycare. We’re in the midwest; our families are on the west and east coasts. We factor in a lot of things–my grad student pay is obviously very low, but the medical benefits are excellent, since many graduate student workers at my institution opt for union membership. We also chose a daycare that is walkable–2 blocks from my apartment–and my partner also works from home, so commuting time, costs, and overall headaches are minimal.

      I can assure you that this arrangement is not leading us to become independently wealthy–and my degree, when I finish it, isn’t the kind that immediate positions one for a well-paying job–but for now, the balance of paid work/intellectual and artistic work/support with childcare is working for us. I don’t have a crystal ball to see into the future, so I imagine a lot could happen to change any of the above decisions, but for now, I’m happy with them (and with my kid! I had to go back to teaching 8 weeks after he was born, but things worked out.) Wishing you well–

    8. Anxa*

      I am not a parent and have been too poor to have kids, but I cannot tell you have much I lament that I spent a good chunk of me mid 20s without any income or career to step away from and how I wish I was in a position to take advantage of that. Very frustrating wasting those years neither making money, building skills, or raising children.

      Siiiiigh.

    9. Miranda*

      In my personal case, with daycare being expensive, my job as a contractor (for the same company my husband works for directly) was worth giving up. Daycare around here is expensive, my son came insanely early so it wouldn’t have been advisable to have him in daycare until much later, and we don’t have any local family to help with pick ups, drop offs and sickness. Also, I liked my job well enough, but was kind of interested in transitioning to something else anyway. I am still a stay at home right now with number 2 on the way, and this is working for us for now, when number 2 hits school age (or sooner depending) I’ll probably see what I can hunt up work wise to get me out of the house. Do your best to see how things work for your family logistics wise, and take into account that while some love staying at home, some need the time away from home working for their own sanity and whichever option works for your family is the right one. You can wait until the baby has arrived and you’ve been on maternity leave for a bit to decide what that is if you need to do.

    10. Anonorama*

      The thing to remember about daycare costs vs. take home pay is that your job also includes things like retirement benefits, social security taxes, life insurance, etc. Not to mention opportunity costs of being out of the workforce. If it makes better financial sense for you to stay home make sure you’re looking at the complete picture.

      1. Observer*

        Not necessarily. Sure, if you get those things, you should factor them in. But not everyone gets insurance, etc.

    11. Book Lover*

      Hmm…. I pay about 40K per year in childcare costs. That’s a nanny to come in the morning, take the kids to daycare and school, daycare for the toddler, camp for my son (spring, summer, winter) and nanny to pick them up after school and take care of them until 6pm. I pay the nanny for hours worked, not full time. I pay nanny taxes, unemployment tax, worker’s comp, and I haven’t factored that in….

      That said, my salary is a lot more than that. And even if it weren’t, at some point my kids won’t need me at home and I will still need something to do and retirement and social security, etc. The cost of staying home is more than just not getting paid.

      And then I usually add that staying home would drive me insane, but I don’t think that’s really true. I put together leave, vacation, etc and was home with my daughter for almost 8 months and it was amazing. But I think her daycare is wonderful and her nanny does different things with her than I would. And I would let my son watch too much tv and etc. etc.

      I’m not sure how helpful that was, other than to be scary about costs! But child care isn’t something to skimp on, and not working isn’t cheap either.

    12. KR*

      I think you have to think not only of the price you’re paying for daycare but of the money you might be giving up by falling out of your career until kiddo is at school. You would lose your place in advancing your pay, experience, and position at work. I think it makes sense, if you can afford it, to work even if you aren’t bringing in a whole lot more money than if you were at home with kiddo. That way when kiddo is in school you haven’t lost out in your career.

    13. kzkz*

      One additional helpful thought experiment (for me at least) is to compare the two “jobs” that you would have, rather than thinking of it as “working” vs “not working”.

      So, imagine that you make $30K after taxes (including benefits or 401K and whatever) in your current job and daycare would cost you $25K. Rather than say “oh my gosh, I’d be working my current job for a net $5K a year, why would I do that!”, say “I could make $30K a year in my current job or $25K a year providing childcare for my kids, which do I want to do?”. For some people, that’s still a no-brainer– they’d much rather be home taking care of their kids than doing their current job, so the $5K pay cut is like, still, hell yeah, this is great! For other people, the idea of getting paid less than they do now for something they would find really stressful/unenjoyable is like, no way, I love my kids but being with them all day long for that little “salary” would be really hard and would choose the other path.

      I think some people know for sure which camp they are in and some don’t. (And some think they know but change their minds.) I think if you’re not sure there’s no harm in planning on continuing to work– you can always quit! (Full disclosure, I have my kids in full-time care and work, but I love my job and it pays pretty well. I still think it’s a lot easier to go that direction–quitting a job if you decide to stay home–than the other–trying to get your job back with a six month old.)

    14. Observer*

      Financially, if you just break even with the lower income, you’ll still be better off in the long term if you both continue to work. If you can’t cover the costs of the lower paid job, that becomes more tricky.

  82. T3k*

    Would it be weird to put down under volunteer experience that one is an admin for a fandom wikia? For context, I do a mixture of things from community management to image organization to content editing, and it is all voluntary.

    1. Amber Rose*

      I think it would be outside the norm enough to come across as strange and somewhat inappropriate. Particularly since I assume you weren’t screened or hired for this position, you just kind of took it on yourself, so there’s nobody to account for the quality of your work.

      1. T3k*

        Yeah, it’s iffy how one becomes an admin. Basically, there’s bureaucrats (the heads of that particular wikia) and then they appoint admins (everyone has their own idea for who qualifies: in my case it was because I had made over 2k edits deemed helpful). The only upside is if the potential employer wanted to see examples, they could go to it and see everything I’ve done.

    2. katamia*

      I think it depends on the fandom and the kind of jobs you’re applying to. If they use similar skills as the jobs you’d be applying for and it’s a well-known fandom (like Star Wars), then that might be okay. But if you’re an accountant and it’s a weirder or less well known fandom (like Axis Powers Hetalia) or one where the fandom has lots of stereotypes (like My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic), it might hurt more than it helps.

      1. T3k*

        That’s a good point. The one I admin for is a fairly popular video game, though not nearly as big as Star Wars, and some jobs I’ve applied to in the past have been within the game industry, so it might help there.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I have been trying for a couple of years how to spin my moderating of an online roleplaying community has relevant experiences that would be useful for work. So far, no dice.

      But I’ve created tracking spreadsheets, done some basic HTML coding, and mediated disputes between players.

      1. Red Reader*

        The number of times I have joked that I would put “5-year administrator of a 50+ player LARP” on my resume if only anyone knew what an accomplishment that actually was….

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Also, wow, I just realized that I missed quite a few words in that comment. Geeeez. Friday cannot be over soon enough.

    4. Temperance*

      It really depends on the industry. I would leave it off unless it was something pretty mainstream, BUT I am in a conservative industry. I’m a huge open nerd at work, but I’m not exactly adding a Star Trek insignia to my resume.

    5. JulieBulie*

      Why not say that you are the unpaid administrator of a special-interest wikia with #### registered users? And then explain about the community management, editing, etc. You don’t have to say it’s for a fandom specifically. You *might* be asked, but at that point you will probably be at an interview and you’ll know just how nerdy you can afford to be with these people.

  83. MissGirl*

    I start my new job on Monday. What’s everyone’s first day/week tips and advice?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Take good care of yourself this weekend! Get done anything you’ve been putting off, like chores or errands. Exercise, eat well, and get a lot of sleep. Pick out your outfit for Monday this weekend so you don’t stress about it on the day of. On Monday morning, try to eat a real breakfast before you head in to work.

      Carry a notebook and pen with you everywhere your first week, to take notes. You never know when you’ll meet someone with an interesting job that you’d like to meet with later down the line. Write that stuff down! Your brain will be overloaded with new information so you need some way to store it on paper.

    2. imakethings*

      You’re going to be exhausted next week. Get everything in order over the weekend so you’re not stressed trying to play catch up all week. Good luck!

    3. Princess Carolyn*

      Consider asking about the microwave/fridge situation ahead of time, so you’ll know if you can bring a cold lunch or not. For whatever reason, my company tends to do the whole “take the new kid to lunch” on day 2 or 3, which leads to a lot of new folks not knowing quite what to do on Day 1.

      Or, if you’re cool with it, just plan on grabbing something from a nearby restaurant on Day 1.

    4. Tabby Baltimore*

      Don’t laugh, but be sure to find out where the bathrooms are. Sometimes people forget, or are too bashful to point them out.

  84. Oceans*

    I accepted an amazing offer a few weeks ago that is contingent on passing a background check. I’m not worried—I’ve never gotten so much as a speeding ticket and the last time I had a background check it cleared in a couple days.

    It has been OVER THREE WEEKS. I am losing my mind. The company I’m supposed to work for seems a little nervous. I need to give notice, otherwise I’m committing myself to so much more time at my current position! This has been stressing me out for weeks now.
    Has anyone been in the same boat before that can give some words of advice or consolation that everything will be okay, and I just need to be patient?

    1. tiny temping teapot*

      I wrote down my zip code wrong on one of the places I’d lived in over the last ten years – the background check company was nice enough to just call me and get a correction, otherwise it would have held things up. Maybe it’s something as tiny as that and the background people aren’t as nice as mine?

    2. Elizabeth West*

      It could be a backlog at the background company. Has your new company checked in with them? Maybe you can ask them if there is anything else they need to move the process forward.

      1. Oceans*

        I followed up with everyone today, except the new company (couldn’t reach the hiring manager). Apparently the background check company sent the completed background check to them on Wednesday!

        Now I’m freaking out. Two days ago! They’ve been moving really quickly…two days of no answer when they’ve had the background check feels very off to me.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Well somebody may be out of the office, or they got busy with something, since you couldn’t reach them. Try not to dwell on it too much this weekend.

        2. OtterB*

          Ugh. Maybe it’s as simple as the hiring manager being out for a couple of days. Hope so!

    3. Melody Pond*

      Ugh, my sympathies! Mr. Pond is going through this right now, except he’s been waiting on a formal offer letter for about the same amount of time – a few weeks or so.

      It’s really frustrating when hiring employer time doesn’t even remotely match up with candidate time. :-/

    4. KR*

      I was just in this same boat. I did not have as sparkly as a record so I was very nervous. It took over a month. I was supposed to start in early April and I started the last week of March.
      In fact, it took so long that I had to retake my drug test because it had been 30 days since my last one. Keep hope. I know one thing that stood in my way was that some states don’t have a centralized system for backgorund checks so they take a long time because they have to go through each county.

  85. katamia*

    I had a lot of Life Stuff going on during the normal grad school application season last year, so I decided to put off applying for library school until this year (to start fall 2018). However, I’d been eyeing a program in the UK for awhile now and realized that its deadline for fall 2017 hasn’t passed yet, so I’m going to apply this year for that one program (I really didn’t want to wait another year to begin with, just couldn’t get everything together in time to do it this year).

    Does anyone have good UK-specific resources for applying to grad/library school, especially about the personal statement? Will having my personal statement be in US English rather than UK English reflect badly on me, or should I take the time to UK-ize it? And is there a general accepted length for the personal statement (I’m thinking no more than 2 pages double- or 1.5-spaced), and if it varies by school, will it reflect badly on me to ask (like it would reflect badly to ask a hiring manager how long your resume would be)?

    1. Caledonia*

      I don’t deal with post grad but undergrad. Americans and those who go through the US education system or similar use US spellings. Personally, I wouldn’t make it British if you’re not.

      Also, depending on which universities you’re applying to – they should have information on how to apply and what’s expected of your application. My uni for instance asks for your personal statement to be around 500 words and it’s submitted online – so research what is needed for the programme you’re interested in and if there isn’t anything (there really should be!) email/phone the admissions team/whoever runs it (again, this info should be easily found).

      1. katamia*

        Thanks! They do have some information about what the personal statement should cover, but it doesn’t give any kind of word count limit/formatting information, and I wasn’t sure if they weren’t giving it more because it didn’t matter *that* much (I mean, obviously I’m not going to write something that’s 85 pages long or anything) or because they were thinking that it was blatantly obvious that everyone knew it should be exactly X pages/words/whatevers long.

        It’s really good to know that it’s okay to email them, too. Guess I’ll type up an email sometime within the next day or so asking them about formatting/length requirements. :)

      1. katamia*

        Ooh, thanks! I’d been to CILIP looking for university options (since the ALA has a reciprocity agreement with them) but hadn’t thought to look at other parts of the site, oops.

      2. Caledonia*

        I would *really* take that forum with a pinch of salt. I work in Higher Ed and many of the posts are completely incorrect with “facts”.

        Trust me, whoever is running the programme will be used to enquiries. We get all sorts of questions (some are quite bizarre).

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Oh and no, it shouldn’t reflect badly on you at all to ask questions about something like this – it’s understandable you want to check. I’d have a look and see if they specifically have an international office in admissions, or just ask the department admin.

      2. Caledonia*

        Where I work, the international office will pass an admissions q to admissions….but they may be able to answer some questions (obviously, I don’t know what because I don’t work in one, we just see what they refer to us).

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      Bare in mind that one of the most powerful things you do in library school is build up a network of contacts for jobs after you graduate. Unless you plan to continuing living in the UK, this is one of the big challenges of finding a job with a UK degree after you graduate, even though the accreditation works across the ocean.

      1. katamia*

        I’m open to working in many different countries (including the UK) and actively not interested in working in the US. I do plan to apply to some (online) US schools for fall 2018 if I don’t get into this program, but ideally, whether or not I stay in the UK, I won’t be coming back to the US after library school anyway.

  86. Jessica*

    Last week, I was applying for an adjunct teaching position that required me to upload two letters of recommendation from people familiar with my teaching. I asked one professor who had offered to write me a letter in the past, and one who had recently written me a letter (but in that case, had sent it directly to the hiring committee). I asked them on a Thursday and they both sent me the letters by the next Tuesday (I did have to send a follow-up email to the one who had already written a letter — she didn’t reply at all to my first email and my university had recently switched servers, so I was honestly wondering if she had gotten the message). I started filling out the online application, but saved it on Wednesday night planning on giving it one final review before submitting it…and of course the application period closed without notice sometime that night and they are no longer accepting applications. It was a very formal process (no hiring committee named, everything was being funneled through the city-wide hiring system for multiple colleges) so there wasn’t any way of trying to work around the system to submit my materials.
    Do I need to let my recommenders know that I wasn’t able to apply for the job? And if so, how do I phrase the message in a way that makes them still want to recommend me (and not be wary that their next effort on my behalf will turn out to be pointless as well)?

    1. fposte*

      I don’t generally expect to hear the outcome on every application for people I recommend, so I wouldn’t notify them. Just let them know if they ask that that one didn’t work out.

    2. deesse877*

      Tangential: look into interfolio.com. They manage and deliver academic job application materials, which can be extensive. You upload files–native or scan–and then send them from the site. It can archive and send out any other application materials too, including your own cover letter, and sometimes it even links up with online application systems directly. There’s both a yearly fee and a per-item fee, but they’re not super-high last time I checked.

      Adjunct opportunities can open and close inside of a single week, so it’s good to have it all cued up. More importantly, it means less worrying/shame about nagging recommenders–you just make sure to update letters yearly or biannually.

  87. Lemon Zinger*

    For me, the stress of being too busy to take care of basic household tasks (cleaning, cooking, laundry, errands) has gotten to me. I had nothing scheduled for today, so I called out and am taking a mental health day. It’s still early and I have already gotten a load of laundry done, eaten a real breakfast, and walked the dog. I’ll probably spend the rest of the day running errands and cleaning the house.

    What do you do when you take a day off for your mental health?

    1. Kathleen Adams*

      Sleep in. Take a long walk. Cook something nice for dinner. Clean. Maybe go to a movie in the middle of the day when there are absolutely no crowds. Wander through an antique mall all by myself.

      Dang it, now *I* want to take a mental health day, and I’m not going to be able to for a while! Enjoy yours, though.

    2. Amber Rose*

      I sleep in, to start with. Not forever, but since I’m usually up at 6, I’ll sleep until 8 or 9. Then I make some breakfast and clean the kitchen/put away the dishes. Do some laundry if I need to. Plan out dinner. Get groceries if I need to. Take the longest, hottest shower I can stand.

      I try to get this all done before one, when my energy levels zero out. After that happens, I spend the rest of my afternoon relaxing by binge watching videos or playing a game or reading.

    3. paul*

      go to the shooting range, read a book, go hiking, play a computer game. get caught up on projects if I need to

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I did this yesterday and it was the best decision of my life. I slept in an additional hour or so, made breakfast, finished the last few chapters of a book I’d been reading, went to a spin class, and ran a bunch of errands that I would have otherwise had to try to cram into the weekend. It made me wish I had a day off midweek every week!

    5. imakethings*

      Sleep in, big breakfast, slowly clean my apartment, go for a bike ride, drink too much coffee, Netflix in bed, art supply store. Gah I want it.

    6. AvonLady Barksdale*

      It’s not a day off, per se, but today is really light so I think I’m going to pack up my laptop, head home, and bake a loaf of bread. When I was un/underemployed, baking was what I did to adjust my focus. I still bake on weekends, and I cook almost every night, but it’s a rare treat to have all day– on a weekday!– to devote to my projects.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Will you be around tomorrow? I need advice on bread baking. My last attempt at buns went… poorly. D:

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          I will, but my baking skills are really, really meh. (I am much better at pickling!) I will do my best to help! And probably direct you to the King Arthur Flour blog. :)

    7. Parenthetically*

      Sleeping in. A proper breakfast. All the music for cleaning. A perpetually-refilled cup of tea. A little to-do list. A couple episodes of something fun during lunch. Takeout for dinner.

    8. AndersonDarling*

      My best random day off was painting a room. I had all the supplies ready to go when I got up, and by the end of the day I had a new room!

    9. Anxa*

      Even though I don’t work full-time, I’m usually away from the house for full-time hours (schedule wonkiness, commuting issues).

      I’ve been tempted to do this, but nothing boosts the mental health like getting the day’s paycheck. That said, I once turned down a shift that I could have actually done and it was too late to pick up a new one.

      So I ended up being really productive that day as misplaced frustration in losing out on the chance to make money, so I figured I would do at least $60 worth of work at home. I did stuff that makes it easier to get through the rest of the week:
      -reset my closets, dressers, make-up stand, etc. so it’s easier to get dressed in the morning
      -deep clean the tub, oven, counters, and any other chore that takes part of the home out of commission for a while
      -inventory the pantry and fridge and psych myself up for meal planning or prepping
      -try to declutter a little bit

    10. KR*

      I spend a lot of time with my dog. We will do walks or field trips or car rides. I try to cuddle with my cat in the morning when I wake up but after she has had food since she really likes that quiet time. Clean a little, organize. Cook something yummy.

    11. Girasol*

      Same as you: get enough sleep, have a decent breakfast, and dive into all the chores that are staring me in the face and making me feel like my whole life is out of control. It feels so refreshing to have them done!

    12. Clever Name*

      I basically lay around in my underwear and watch tv all day. Husband and son normally monopolize the tv so I spend the day watching nature shows and British tv.

  88. tiny temping teapot*

    2 things: a) every two weeks I see a therapist for my mental health issues, thankfully my city gives me sick leave and I have that hour every week. But. I’m not going to disclose my nuttiness to anyone here at the office, ever, (I posted before that one of my coworkers said she thought a hated boss “chose” to be mentally ill) and I’m not sure how to describe the appointment as medical without saying therapy. The way this comes up is when I submit my timesheet for the company (as it says above, I am a temp so I also do a timesheet for my agency where I just check sick time) and my supervisor asked why I had 7 hours on one day this week and not 8. I said every other week appointment for my health but is there another phrasing?

    b) I was put in charge of winnowing 174 resumes for internship down to 9. It was depressing that the general quality of how the resumes were put together was better than the resumes I winnowed down for a full time position. Though I really super do not get why literal rocket scientists (in training) and engineers and app developers were applying for an internship in financial services.

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      When I was seeing a therapist, I said “I have a regular medical appointment every two weeks. It’s nothing serious but it does need to be taken care of.”

      1. paul*

        Exactly how I’ve done it.

        Did the same thing when doing physical therapy too. They can ask for some documentation and there’s nothing to stop a jerk boss from googling around and researching whatever clinic you get the statement from,but they do get to ask that you show that there, in fact, appointments even though they can’t (IIRC) ask for details.

        1. tiny temping teapot*

          Thank you both! Luckily my boss is the farthest thing from a jerk, I just don’t feel comfortable with anyone I work with knowing because of the stigma and maybe someday a permanent position here might happen, someday, so I’d rather not have that in the back of their heads. (Let’s hire the temp with anxiety and depression, said no one ever.)

    2. Chaordic One*

      Lemon Zinger’s advice is good. I used to have to take an hour off at least once every week (using my PTO) for my regular allergy desensitization shots over a period of four years. (They were very prompt about giving me the shot, but then I had to hang around for half an hour afterwards just in case I had a bad reaction to the shot.)

      When I worked in HR, I would occasionally find out that certain employees were taking time off for counseling or for other regular medical issues and it wasn’t a big deal for us. It might be a bigger deal with your department because you’re not there, though. If it is, maybe you could have your hours adjusted, like come in an hour early or stay an hour late to make up the time if you don’t use PTO.

  89. Chameleon*

    Job interview Monday! Would be moving from an Adjunct to a Full-Time Faculty at a community college (Biology). Trying to come up with good questions for the “do you have any questions for us” part. Any suggestions?

    2. Chameleon*

      I’m pretty new to this field, so I don’t really know what I want to know! I can get the demographics, etc. from the website. I guess I would like to figure out how much support new teachers get, and how much time I should plan on spending on non-teaching activities–but I’m a little worried about how that question will come off.

      (I also am really curious about whether it’s a mandatory 4-quarter position or if I can voluntarily take summer quarter off…I know that’s common in some places and not so much elsewhere. It would really affect how I feel about the job but I’m *really* worried it will come off as me seeming unserious.)

      1. Dr. Doll*

        You might couch those questions in terms of what really successful faculty’s strategies have been in terms of balancing different areas of responsibility.

      2. AnotherLibrarian*

        I’ve never moved from Adjunct to fulltime, but I have been on committees hiring non-library faculty (I’m a librarian, as you might have guessed from my user name) some of the best questions I have heard include:
        1. What structure does the school year generally take for full-time faculty? (This is answer your question about summers, hopefully. And follow up if they don’t give you a clear answer. )
        2. What sort of professional development/conference support is there? (A lot of people assume that everyone get paid to go to the conferences they present at, but at my school that isn’t guaranteed.)
        3. Is there a mentoring program? What sort of pedalogical support or programs are there? (New teacher support info.)
        4. How is someone in this position evaluated? What would you like to see this person achieve in the first year? (This is a pretty revealing question.)
        5. How do peoples day usually end up working out? What does a “normal” day look like? (This can help you see what the non-teaching structure might be.)

        Best of luck.

      3. Anxa*

        I’m not sure if or how to bring this up in an interview, but maybe you could find out a little bit more about the organization of the instruction support staff (that’s me!).

        Are there professional tutors? Peer tutors? Supplemental instruction leaders? Part-time faculty working in learning labs in addition/instead of office hours? Lab technicians? Lab assistants? Do they teach lab? Set up lab? Supervise an open learning lab? Are these positions grant-funded or is more institutional? Are supporting staff coordinating through the academic department? A tutoring office? The library?

        Also, what kind of role would you have in advising? Are there career academic advisors, faculty advisors, or a mix? How do their jobs overlap? What role does the college see you having in retention? Engagement?

        Also, are there any STEM initiatives? You will have already researched the demographics, programs, and enrollment, but it may help to get a better idea of who your students will be. Those satisfying gen eds? Allied health and nursing students? Prospective health and nursing students? Transfers? Is there are significant pipeline of 2+2 or other transfer students that go into biology and other science bachelor’s? Back to the STEM initiatives, are there any opportunities for undergrad research (usually rare, but some schools have grants for this!)? What kind of community or industry partnerships make those possible or could be tapped into? I wouldn’t ask all of this, but in general maybe you could get a better idea of what role the biology department has in the college and community.

        I really, really don’t know how to ask about these issues because I share your concerns about it coming off the wrong way or defensive or suspicious or even naive, but I think it would be really valuable to know this sort of stuff. Maybe thinking about it will spark some eloquent questions.

        1. Anxa*

          Oh, also check to see if the curriculum is standardized! Are lectures centralized across the board or will you be responsible for course content?

      4. blackcat*

        “non-teaching activities”

        Ask generally about what types of service new faculty typically engage in. Call it service, and make yourself sound genuinely curious. You should get a reasonable answer.

    3. Student*

      “Can you go over the differences in your performance expectations for a full-time faculty as opposed to an adjunct?”

    4. deesse877*

      Even if you’ve worked at the same institution for some time, ask them to characterize their student population, the biggest challenges of working with those students, and the biggest reward. You will BOTH get actionable information, AND validate the hiring committee as teachers and professionals.

  90. Anonycat*

    Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who gave me advice re: suit jackets last week! It turned out the first phase was a “one-way video interview” so I was able to wear an old suit jacket that doesn’t quite fit (but looks fine from mid-chest up). I’m going to keep exploring my options in the hope I get an in-person interview.

  91. KatieKate*

    My boss keeps giving me cheap gifts

    I got a cute dollar store mug for Christmas, a gel pen set (that doesn’t work) for Valentines Day, and all sorts of little trinkets when he travels that he clearly gets at the airport. While I appreciate the effort, this stuff is cluttering my desk and I hate putting on a fake face when he asks how I like it. I don’t want to take anything home, and nothing is nice enough to be regiftable.

    Is there any way to say “thanks but no thanks” without hurting his feeling?

    1. Amber Rose*

      Next time, “I’m grateful but you know, you don’t have to buy me anything. I only have so much desk space!” in a jokey tone of voice.

      If he doesn’t get the hint, then you can try a more direct, “I’d rather you not buy me anything else. I appreciate the thought but it’s really not necessary.”

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I think relying on hints isn’t going to work here and you’ll have to be pretty direct. Can you tell him that you’re trying to be more minimalist/have less stuff and that while you’re grateful that he always thinks of you, you’re on a “don’t acquire more stuff” kick?

      1. KatieKate*

        The problem is that they’re all small and cheap. If he wanted to do one nicer “appreciation” gift for the holidays, I wouldn’t be opposed. I don’t want to steer him away entirely from gifts! XD

        But yes, I know I’ll have to come up with something more direct.

      1. KatieKate*

        I have “lost” one or two of them, but I hate the waste. I’m sure I’ll have to be more direct.

    5. AMT*

      Can you take them home when you get them and then dispose of them? If he asks about them, you can say stuff like, “I thought the vase with the clown motif would look good on my dresser,” or “I gave my niece the gel pen set and she loved it.” It’s totally normal not to always keep office gifts in the office.

  92. NPO Queen*

    A few Fridays ago (4/21) I posted asking for help with a PowerPoint presentation I needed to do for an interview. Happy to say I got the job! Thanks to everyone who commented, especially Nic, who laid out bullet points for me. It was a very weird interview, but it’s with highly respected organization and pays 20% more than I’m making now, so off to a new adventure!

  93. Legalchef*

    So how’s this for crazy: one of my supervisees met with my boss to complain about me (we still aren’t quite sure what her complaints actually were), and this is someone who has had some performance issues to the point that on the recommendation/instructions of my boss I gave her a specific assignment on what to do with every task she was given. However, she’s never done it. When my boss brought up to her that she’s never done it, she said that she thought it was arbitrary and just busy work, and X other colleague didn’t have to do it, so she just… didn’t do it. She never thought to say “hey, can we discuss why you think this is necessary” or anything like that (in fact she never responded to the email setting out the plan in any way). She just decided not to do it. Because apparently that’s a thing. And then had a meeting to complain about me, which I’m guessing was unsatisfying to her when it became more about how it’s not up to her to just ignore specific instructions that I give her. Whoops.

      1. Legalchef*

        I agree – it was bad enough when she just wasn’t doing it, but to hear her rational? I had a hard time not laughing out loud. But, alas, not my decision to make…

          1. Legalchef*

            I have, but…

            I’m going on leave soon and I think the intention is to try to use the summer as kind of a reset. I don’t really know/understand though.

      2. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        Insubordinate, performance issues, oversteps professional norms, second-guesses work assignments, goes over your head? YUUUUP.

        1. Legalchef*

          I don’t have a problem w questioning work assignments, if they are actually questioned! I would have been happy to have a conversation w her about it. And I don’t even mind her going over my head to complain about me (particularly since she doesn’t really have a leg to stand on). It’s the ignoring I don’t like/understand!

        2. Anon for whining*

          I have an ex-employee that I’d like you to explain this to.

          They still think I’m a demon who brainwashed my boss into approving the PIP and eventual separation. I wonder what on earth they think a job is if they never did anything their boss assigns?

          Legalchef,

          Write down what acceptable and high performance looks like in this role. Write down how StafferA is doing against that rubric. Be scrupulously honest. “Does not complete assigned tasks A, C and F. Completes task B and D in 3x the time it takes other staff at same level, at a lesser quality. Completes task E quickly and generally well. Is always on time.” If the minimum is completes A-F on time and to a set quality standard and is on time, they are still not doing the job acceptably. If the minimum is completes some half of A-F, they may be acceptable, though irritatingly poor.

          Ship the package to your boss. Ask them to track deliverables while you’re out, and ask them to start a PIP or fire staffer while you’re gone if those standards aren’t met – or to tell you what your standards should be.

          1. Department manager*

            All of this. I had a direct report who was on a PIP, was union, and filed numerous complaints against me for my “aggressive behavior” (unsubstantiated but a time-suck) I documented and documented and documented. I just couldn’t take it anymore and got the okay for her to spend the mornings being supervised by another department head. We sat down together to go over her assignments, due dates, and productivity expectations. Two weeks into this new arrangement, other Department Head emails me. PIP employee does not arrive on-time (anywhere from twenty minutes late to hours with no notice) employee is not doing the assignments as directed nor are the tasks completed in an accurate or timely manner. Employee ignores all feedback from the morning manager.
            We have a meeting at the end of the second week with new supervisor in attendance.
            I go over the assigned tasks with employee noting issues. I say Department Head has met with you about these issues. Why is it you are not doing these tasks as she has asked?
            Employee says- she is not my manager so I don’t have to do what she says.
            That sound you heard was our jaws dropping to the floor.

  94. Anony Mouse*

    Based on my resume, I look like a job hopper. My original aim was for an academic career, though I wanted to travel and gain some experience before grad school. I taught ESL overseas for a year, did a master’s program in the UK, taught ESL in the States for about a year, then took a nine-month internship with a nonprofit. I then returned to the UK to start a PhD program, which I left after a year due for personal reasons. At that point, I took a staff position at my undergraduate alma mater and stayed for three years. During that time, I got married and relocated to a city 60 miles away, and spent the next 9 months commuting, which was unsustainable in the long term. After over a year of searching, I found another university staff job in the city where I live. I’d really hoped to stay in this position and build my career here, but realized almost immediately that the work environment is toxic and unlikely to improve. I started looking for a new job about six months ago, have had a couple of interviews and one offer, which I turned down after much consideration because it was really a step backward, career-wise.
    I’m not looking for a “dream job.” I have a good idea of what my skills are and know of a number of different careers that would fit. More than anything, I want stability. Job searching wears me out. But I’m afraid that a lot of hiring managers are choosing not to pursue me as a candidate because I look like a job hopper. Is there anything I can do to downplay this?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Unfortunately, I don’t know that there’s a lot you can do to downplay it.

      If I’m reading your paragraph correctly, it looks like this:
      1 year
      ? years (master’s program)
      1 year
      9 months
      1 year (PhD program)
      3 years
      6 months

      The 3 years looks good, but everything else looks super job-hoppy.

      I knew someone who had a job-hoppy résumé and had a hard time finding a job to stick at, and ultimately it just took persistence and finding a place to take a chance on her. You will get a lot of people writing you off before they even interview you. It’s going to be frustrating. There isn’t a way around that. But you may get that person who takes a chance on you.

      1. Anony Mouse*

        Yes, the timeline is right, except that I’ve been in my current job a year now. Master’s program was a calendar year, which is common in the UK.

    2. fposte*

      I don’t know that it’s so much a job hopper thing as the problem people face when they’ve been short-timers repeatedly even not by choice–that it’s harder for your history to show a clear growth trajectory. But it also sounds like you’re not doing badly in the job hunt, so I don’t think you’re getting tossed aside that much; it’s just that it might take time for you to find a place that wants you that you also want.

      1. Anony Mouse*

        Thanks. I’m hoping part of it is that it’s a bad time to be job-hunting in my state, especially in education and nonprofits. Severe budget cuts for the second year in a row.

    3. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      Depends on who you interview with, but when I see a Masters’ and PhD program on a resume, I personally view that a lot differently. You don’t look like you hop jobs because you get bored easily and/or are a goofball, you look like your career has been sharing life space with pursuing education and multiple international moves.

      1. Anony Mouse*

        I don’t list the PhD anymore because I didn’t complete the program. (It was in the humanities, and, as I’m sure you know, TT jobs are vanishing.) I once was in a second interview with a company, and the manager told me point blank that she had decided not to hire me because I “shouldn’t brag about things I didn’t finish.”

    4. Triceratops*

      Hmm, I think people often expect overseas teaching to be a temporary thing (IME), and an internship being short definitely does not count against you! Plus leaving the US ESL job for a PhD is super understandable.

      And after you left the PhD, you had a 3-year stay. I don’t think this looks as bad as you think!

    5. Gloucesterina*

      Do you have a mentor or mentors, or even a trusted peer or two, who could help you review your resume and talk through different ways of telling the story of your work and education history? I know AAM talks a lot about not over-thinking possible perceptions of job-hopping.

  95. De Minimis*

    So I’ve applied for two federal jobs with my old employer, at our regional office [people know me there but I worked in one of the other facilities] and it looks like I’ve been referred to the selecting official for both of them! Which means we will probably be moving cross country again soon if I get one of the positions. I hate that prospect, but am willing to go through with it.

    If that happens, this puts my current employer in a bind, but this is a better opportunity for me, and I should be able to give them sufficient notice. Just tired of the hectic life out here [Bay Area] and though we’re doing okay financially it takes a big toll on our health and wellbeing. We also are basically “doing okay” in the sense that we can pay our bills and set some money aside, but we will never be at a point where we could buy a house for example.

    Current employer will not be happy. My boss has invested a lot of time in transitioning a lot of functions over to me, and he will need to start all over again with someone else. I don’t see a way to overcome that though. I am not very happy with my job, and feel like I need to leave if I’m going to be serious about professional development. I also have nearly 10 years invested in the federal retirement system and think it would make the most sense to try and return to that.

    Both jobs pay the same, one is in a more specialized department and might be somewhat isolated from the rest of the organization [it’s a supply center where they provide drugs and medical supplies to all the other facilities nationwide and also to some of the other agencies.] The other position might provide more opportunity for growth, but it involves working with at least one difficult person who might end up being my direct supervisor. I guess we’ll see. It’s not the worst problem in the world to have. The pay would be close or not the same as I’m making now, but in an area with much lower cost of living. It’s a promotion from my last federal job. I’m inclined to prefer the one in the more specialized area just because I think it would be lower stress.

    Who knows, I might not get either of them. The funny thing is it’s the same HR person for both postings, so I don’t know how that might work on their end if I did end up being considered for both.

    1. De Minimis*

      I meant “close or about the same as I’m making now.” I may be in a position to negotiate starting step…

    2. Government Mule*

      It would not be uncommon IME for the same HR person to work multiple postings. It sounds like the selecting officials are different though? Good luck!

  96. Fictional Butt*

    I’ll be leaving my job soon, and my boss wants me to help interview my replacement, since he doesn’t know much about the technical aspects of my job. I have some general ideas about what kind of questions I should ask (how much experience they have with the software I use, what kind of projects they’ve worked on, etc). But I’m wondering if anyone has any other ideas that I might be forgetting? What kind of questions would you ask as an interviewer and what information would you as a candidate want to receive about the job?

    (Sorry if this question is too general, I had to keep it pretty vague!)

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      You want to learn about how they think. So don’t ask questions with simple answers. Ask stuff like “tell me about a time you encountered X with a project and how you approached it” … and then ask follow-up questions about their answer — “that sounds challenging — how did you handle Y?” … “what made you approach it that way?” … “what happened?” … “would you do anything differently now?” … etc.

      You’ll get far more info about how they actually operate.

      1. Fictional Butt*

        Thanks, this is great advice! For my role, my company has previously only hired people who didn’t have any experience with the software and just learned on-the-job, so a lot of our products are, um… I think the term programmers use is “spaghetti code.” I was worried about how I would figure out if the candidate could handle that, and those questions sound great.

    2. T3k*

      On the candidate side, I’d want to know if there’s any side duties I’d be expected to do and how much that’d make up the job (I may still be annoyed at last job where originally it was 25% answering the phones to almost 50% of the time within a few months).

  97. inkstainedpages*

    Just need to rant, mostly.

    My husband works in customer service at a big chain store. He has worked there for more than 2 years and is one of the most tenured people on the customer service team.

    Over the last year or so, his manager has been grooming him to replace her. As soon as the person above her in the chain moved up to a different job (which he was expected to do soon), she would move up, and then my husband would move into her job.

    Well, the person above her did move up about a month ago, and she got his job as was expected. My husband applied for her job. Yesterday, he received a standard form rejection email.

    I am just so annoyed that they strung him along all this time, grooming him for this new job, and then not even offering an interview. I understand that the job was never his for sure, that someone with more experience could have applied or this could have fallen through in some other way. But the fact that he was sent a form letter rejection, and no one at the store has even talked to him in person about his application being rejected makes me so mad.

    He’s looking for another job now, but it’s too bad, because he really loves his work and his coworkers. Without being in a management position, the pay is just not working for our family anymore.

  98. Factory Girl*

    I work at a factory of 200+ people. We just lost our only female manager (got a much better job offer). Now we have no women managers or supervisors in our facility. Her replacement is going to be a man. My question is, is this unusual? Is it legal? We have many women in support and engineering roles, and a small, but significant amount on the actual factory floor.

    1. fposte*

      It’s not technically illegal, since there’s no required quota or anything, but it’s damn dubious.

      1. De Minimis*

        At the very least, it’s a series of data points that may be significant later.

    2. Former Retail Manager*

      It really depends upon the type of factory work you’re doing. Do you work in a steel mill or do you package small widgets in a climate controlled facility for shipping elsewhere? Light industrial and manufacturing tends to have more female supervisors whereas heavy industrial doesn’t. I suppose I’d look at the percentage of female employees to the percentage of female supervisors. If it is grossly out of whack, then there may be an issue, but if one female supervisor was in line with the percentage of female employees, then I’d look at why a male got the position. Is he the only one that applied, only one qualified, etc.? Also, in some more gendered jobs, females may only do it for a short time , for whatever reason, and may not view it as a long term career option, whereas males may plan to stay long-term.

      Many jobs are gendered, rightly or wrongly, it is what it is. Most elementary teachers are female, heavy equipment operators are male, and many factory workers are male. For what’s its worth, kudos to you for working in a male dominated industry and one that is typically very hard work. Perhaps it’s time to express your interest in moving into management in the future and become the next female manager when a spot opens!

  99. DMD*

    Has anyone tried the Cubii under desk elliptical and liked it? Thinking about it for the office, but it’s pricey and work won’t cover it, of course.

    1. Allison*

      Just looked it up, and oooooh, it’s so neat, now I want one!

      My question is, for those who’ve tried it, have there been any reactions from desk/cube neighbors? Were they positive/supportive or annoyed by the extra noise and movement? Last thing I need is to give my cube neighbor something else to complain about.

      1. tiny temping teapot*

        The previous temp left hers at my desk. The noise made both my cubicle mates request I not use it when they were there so now I don’t use it. :)

  100. A Nonny Mouse*

    So, I have a unique situation here, and maybe some of the lawyers can give me some advice (not legal advice, lol!). This is kind of long, so bear with me.

    A few years ago, I did some things I’m very Not Proud Of. Nothing illegal, no one died, no drugs, no criminal conviction, but some Very Not Okay Things with regard to an ex-employer (reporting him to a state agency for kind of a BS reason after he fired my mom). I was also a bar applicant at the time, so obviously that didn’t go well – I had untreated bipolar disorder at the time (was put on anti-depressants alone, which is a great way to make someone with bipolar go off the handle with mania), and used that as an explanation of sorts, but it fell on deaf ears – it was a poor excuse, and I wasn’t taking responsibility for my actions at the time. Ultimately, the state board of bar examiners decided I couldn’t take the exam until July 2016, assuming I’d cleaned up my act by then.

    I worked very hard to fix my problems. I got treatment for my illness, entered into therapy, held down a steady job at a law firm for those three and a half years (I was recently laid off, but that was just downsizing). I voluntarily enrolled in the Lawyer’s Assistance Program for mental health support (fulfilled my contract with them successfully in June 2016), and finally, made amends to that former employer, who graciously accepted my apology. I also started doing lectures to law students about the importance of mental health, in conjunction with the Lawyers Assistance Program that helped me so much during my time of recovery. I talk about my story, and try to impart that it’s important to get treatment – the RIGHT treatment – early, so that you don’t screw things up to the point where you’re giving explanations for bad things rather than showing you’ve handled your business preemptively.

    I’m applying to take the July 2017 bar exam now. I got through the first approval process with the local bar association, and now I’m waiting on my final approval from the state board, which won’t come until 2-3 weeks before the exam – which is GREAT to worry about while trying to study, especially when the final approval process is where I got held back last time).

    All this to say, I’ve been applying to lawyer jobs now, or at least law clerk positions, pending my successful passage of the exam. But now, I’m wondering how to approach this in interviews. It didn’t come up in the interview process at my old job – no one asked me why I hadn’t taken the bar, and it was a legal assistant job (my attorney advised me I had no duty of disclosure for that kind of position). I ended up telling a few of the partners after asking for reference letters, and they were all understanding and said they actually knew about it already – the report from the state board comes up when you Google my name + my city – but appreciated my telling them prior to asking for references.

    I’m expecting that some of these jobs will ask, why did you graduate in 2012 but are only just taking the bar now? I was thinking I might say that I had some personal issues to deal with, and have decided I’m ready to take the exam (which is true, and I waited an extra year past when they said I could take it because I wanted to be absolutely sure I was ready). But the report, as I said, is available if you Google me the right way, and it includes information about my medical condition, which, unfortunately, is stigmatized in a way that depression isn’t. I can’t have the report removed (already tried), so I have to deal with it. How would you guys suggest I handle it if it comes up, if not the way I’m thinking? Or should I just be honest about it upfront, even if they don’t ask? If that’s the case, I could use my speeches with the LAP as a way to show that I’ve learned from the experience, and that I’m trying to make some good come of it, but I don’t know. This is all a confusing thing to navigate.

    Basically, I want to handle this ethically, but also not blackball myself out of a job. Everyone deserves a second chance, but I was a hot mess, and I will spend the rest of my life regretting it, because of the damage I caused to myself and others.

    Any advice would be appreciated!!

    1. Temperance*

      I think it might be best for you to chat with someone at Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers about this. I don’t recommend disclosing substance abuse or mental health issues to prospective employers, but they’ll have attorneys who have been through it already and can talk to you about it.

      1. A Nonny Mouse*

        I think the equivalent of that in my state is our Lawyers Assistance Program (I Googled and couldn’t find a branch here) but my old sponsor didn’t really give me any helpful advice. Legally, I don’t have to disclose anything, but it’s public record, so it’s kind of a sticky wicket. If I don’t disclose it, I might look like I’m hiding something, but if I do, they’ll go looking for things they may not have otherwise looked for.

        I got myself into this situation, and it’s frustrating me now. This is why I tell kids in my lectures to deal with it early, because it can derail your career for years.

    2. KatieKate*

      If you’re not required so say anything or don’t want to say anything, “taking care of family” is always a great filler. Or just a general “I took some time to take care of my heath.”

      1. A Nonny Mouse*

        I actually was thinking of, “health issues” as a possible explanation. Because it’s definitely true.

    3. neverjaunty*

      Hey, so first, incredible respect to you for dragging yourself into a better place. That’s amazing!

      First, it isn’t horribly unusual for there to be a gap between graduation and bar exam, especially if you are a little older than the average grad.

      That aside, health issues are a good (and, truly, an honest) catch-all. You don’t need to, and shouldn’t, go into details. “I was managing some serious health issues that are, happily, fully resolved now.”

      Do not try to use them, as the interview stage, as a way to show a learning experience.

  101. Squeeble*

    One of my responsibilities is covering for a coworker of mine when she’s away. Recently, she told me she’d be on leave for three weeks, so I’d be taking on more than I usually do. It’s been a lot, but I think I’m handling it well (and occasionally my regular job can get slow so I appreciate how full my days are now–the time passes so quickly!).

    I’m supposed to be doing this for two more weeks, but I just found out that she’s going to be returning early and doing half-days for a while. I’m a little bit relieved but, surprisingly to myself, I’m more disappointed than anything. I was enjoying the extra responsibilities more than I realized, I guess.

    Not sure I need any advice, but it’s helpful info for me to know about myself as I eventually move along in my career.

    1. JulieBulie*

      Tell your supervisor. Make it clear that you’re not gunning for the coworker’s job, but you’d like a little more to do.

  102. Me*

    I had an interview yesterday for a job that I wasn’t sure about–it sounded good, but there were some things I wasn’t sure about. The HR person called Wednesday and wanted me to come in at damn o’clock the next morning, or later that day (no way) and we agreed on the next morning. So I had little time to prepare for this interview. I kept thinking about people here saying they didn’t care about the interview and so did better than if they were all het up about it.

    There were four people, including the hiring manager. It was very loosey-goosey and I nearly blew it in the middle when they said the position sat at the front desk. My disappointment at hearing that must have shown on my face–they all went, “Oh no, she’s turned off! No no no no you just sit there, we have almost no traffic, etc.” We had begun talking about longevity/internal hiring right before this, and so I recovered by saying most of my previous positions in reception had no chance for advancement so I had to leave if I wanted to learn anything new. They started talking like crazy about how the company hires from within, and the hiring manager said everybody was cross-trained so if someone had to be gone “if they were sick or on vacation,” she said, they could cover (!!!). The more they talked about it, the better I felt. People move around IN the company (the person I would be replacing is doing exactly that), they stay in the company for a long time, and the product (it’s a food group) is something I actually consume.

    I was extremely honest about the dyscalculia (“What’s that?” “It’s like dyslexia, only with math.” “OH OKAY we got it,” tons of nods, etc.) because there was some mention of paying invoices and pulling Kronos reports. It’s all stuff I could do using procedures and is not accounting. When I explained how I follow procedures for tasks of that nature, I felt like they actually understood what I was talking about. They seemed interested in my interest in documentation, too. Not only would I learn about quality control and exporting, but they have facilities all over the place, including California (the exporting stuff could get me to a port city please please please).

    I let them know I was very interested when we finished up and that I was really hoping to find a company I could stay with long-term. They said it would be a couple of weeks and were vague on whether there would be a second interview–it seemed like they weren’t sure of the exact procedure (or maybe they just think I’m a dork and already decided not to hire me :P). I meant to ask about the pay range–the HR person tried to get a figure out of me but I was reluctant, though I did put what I was earning at Exjob in the extended application (I felt like wth, they could see what I was worth). But I forgot. If the pay is decent, I would take it if they offer it.

    I could use some good vibes. I need a damn job and it needs to be something decent.

    4. Me*

      I looked and their facility in SoCal is in Corona. Ugh. Inland.

      Thanks…like an hour after typing out that post, I changed my f*cking mind. I guess that’s not normal. But whatev. I’ll still take it if they offer because what choice do I have.

      What frustrates me about this is that it’s not even remotely the way I want to go. I can’t seem to find anything around here that will add skills I want/need, and I am SICK UNTO DEATH of administrative assistant jobs. I feel like I’m never going to get out of them no matter what anyone says. I don’t want to answer the phone; I don’t want to receive packages; I don’t want to help plan your team-building events or take minutes (that was one thing I forgot to mention, that I really don’t want to do.) I was all hyped up about this yesterday, but today I just want out of here. It feels like no matter what I want, I always get blocked and sent in another, completely non-productive direction. I cannot stay here another year or two or three; I need to get OUT or I’m going to lose my ever-loving mind.

      Okay, rant over.

      1. Caledonia*

        Well…I had a horrible year last year and I thought that the job I currently have wasn’t what I wanted and would be rubbish. It’s actually not. I’m learning so much and this will only help me (this and that I will have a degree shortly) in the future.
        So….maybe this job is like mine? It will be a springboard to something else?

          1. Life is Good*

            I’m wishing you luck, too, in getting a damn job you can live with. I always love reading your posts.

      2. jamlady*

        Rancho Cucamonga is super nice if you get stuck in Corona. Plus the commute is down the 15 rather than the evil 91 lol

        Or Temecula! There’s definitely okay options Inland (though yeah not my favorite, but it gets you back to CA!)

    7. Jean (just Jean)*

      May you get this job or something even better–soon!
      Hugs (if you want them) and good vibes. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    8. ..Kat..*

      But, this job could get you to California. Which is closer to your dream!

      Good thoughts for things to work out for the best for you.

  103. Buffy*

    I just enrolled in my first graduate class to earn my masters!  When is it appropriate to put “anticipated degrees” on your resume? It’s too soon for me not only because I haven’t officially started yet, but also because I am taking classes part-time to accommodate my full-time job, so I probably won’t even graduate until 2021. (That bums me out so hard writing that…) Any guidance? I’m not looking for a job anytime soon, just wondering!

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I think once you attend your first class, it’s fine to include it on your resume — or, that’s what I did anyway :)

  104. Red*

    So I have a coworker in my overall department (think Teapot Dept) who is a bully to everyone in our smaller department (for example, Spout Dept). She refuses to do her job for our clients, called another Spout Rep a jerk, told me I can’t have any of the shared for for the Teapot Dept because Spout Reps weren’t included in the headcount (yes we were, and anyway there was enough food people took leftovers at the end of the day). I kinda want to quit over this and other things. Two questions – am I being unreasonable in thinking a manager should stop this, and should I tell my boss that I really will die on this hill? I’m not concerned about job security, we’re unionized so it takes really egregious behavior to get fired.

    1. fposte*

      A manager should stop this, but if there’s a union factor that’s keeping people from being fired, it’ll take a while and you won’t necessarily know about it while it’s happening.

      It’s up to you whether you want to quit over this or not. I could probably roll with the jerk-calling and the food policing; if you don’t have to do any of the work she doesn’t do, I’d probably just be really disappointed in the business, but if it’s expected that you pick up her slack, that’s a big problem.

      1. Red*

        We are expected to do the work she won’t! That’s the bit that bothers me; I told my manager about her refusal and she was just like “yeah, that’s a thing, I’ll have someone show you how to do it yourself”

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, I’d go back to her. “Boss, I do my own work well; I’m really not happy that the solution to Jane’s not doing hers is asking me to do one-third of her job. Can we talk about finding another way to handle that, or at least arranging appropriate compensation for the additional work you’re asking me to do? This is important to me.”

          1. Red*

            Oh, that’s actually a major sore point with this job right now. Because of our union, she apparently has no control over compensation. This has all the problems you’d expect it to and then some lol.

            1. fposte*

              Can you talk to your union rep? While sometimes unions do limit what managers can do in firing and in raises, sometimes managers use unions as an excuse not to do the work they should. You might want to dig a little deeper and find out which it is here.

              1. Red*

                That’s a good idea! I’ll send him an email on Monday. This is my first union job (it’s not a super common thing in my field) and it’s… interesting

  105. CatCat*

    I bicycled to work today for the first time. It took longer than I would have liked, but it was scenic. I probably won’t do it again because parts of the ride go through a park with a lot of homeless camps and there aren’t enough other cyclists for me to feel safe, especially since a cyclist was badly injured last week after being attacked by two dogs coming from one of the camps (one of the dogs bit down to the bone in one of the cyclist’s legs). If I bike again, I’ll take the bus part of the way since it will cut down on time and I will not have to go through the park.

  106. Making myself nuts...*

    How important is school name recognition to hiring managers?

    I have narrowed down to three equivalent masters programs and been invited to apply to all three.

    Now let’s pretend I am accepted at all three. What would you choose?

    Based on published graduate school rankings:
    -Top 20, East Coast, (MA) ($$$$); never heard of it (ashamed, it is less than 100 miles away); Recent grads here at work and my father (?) say, “Go there!”
    -Top 50, Midwest, (MS) ($$$); heard of it and reputation; traditional family says, “Wow! You are aiming high! Go there!”
    -Top 110, West, (MS) ($$); never heard of it, football fans know it but no knowledge of academics

    It’s not supposed to matter, but I am a 44 year old female and 5-6 years older than the average student in each program.

    1. fposte*

      Depends on the field and what area of the country you want to be in afterwards (and also the monetary value of each $). A big part of many master’s programs is the network, so really consider whether that network will be a good one for you; a Northwestern will still have a decent East Coast network, for instance, but a University of Oklahoma might not. (I’m randomly guessing Tufts for the top 20.) And if you’re talking an on-campus program, look at the length of the master’s and what your life would be like; those years count too, and you don’t want to be miserable.

    2. katamia*

      I’m not a hiring manager and can’t speak specifically to school recognition, but if this is a “professional” masters, you might want to consider where you want to work after you graduate. I did my BA at a well respected/pretty highly ranked public university in US Region A after having grown up in US Region B. I hated A and moved back to B after I graduated, and I feel like I missed out on a lot of networking/connection opportunities because the people I know from college mostly stayed in A, which I have no intention of ever working in. So while I do have that piece of paper, I think my lack of connections has really hurt me in my job search (although the Recession did that nicely, too).

      This applies less if it’s a more academic masters/if you want to go into academia since my understanding is you need to be willing to move to where you can get a job to a certain extent.

      1. Making myself nuts...*

        I will stay physically on the East Coast, but am pretty open to contract or remote positions involving some travel-my current company is international and I would love to work at different facilities (pie in sky dream that is).
        Because these are online programs, my contact people for each program have been pretty excited to discuss opportunities to connect with folks all over the US and internationally.

    3. Fictional Butt*

      I just made a similar choice, and I chose one of the more expensive schools, which I’m still a little freaked about. But I think it was the right choice!

      I would say, focus less on the “name recognition” and more on your actual goals. Are there specific companies you’d be interested in working for? Can you find out where their employees went? Where do students at the schools intern (if internships are a thing in your field)? Does the curriculum include practical work with companies/clients– if so, who are they? Where do students work after graduation (what companies and where, geographically)?

      Also, will you be able to visit the schools? Talking to professors and current students was a big help to me in deciding what school to choose.

    4. H.C.*

      I think you need to do a deeper dive into each program – since rankings only give a very general idea, and depending on the program & your career path focus, you could very do better at a lower ranked (but still reputable) school. Generally after you’re accepted, each school will try to convince you to join their program – which is a good opportunity for you to do some more probing, such as:

      What are its course offerings? What is the general teaching style?
      What do students/alumni say about their classes/instructors, and what made them choose grad school X?
      What resources are offered to grad students?
      What financial aid/scholarship do they offer to help offset tuition costs?
      Where have graduates gone to after completing their masters?
      How is the alumni network? Is there a mentor/mentee program?
      What are non-academic pros/cons to that school? (e.g. located near a lot of potential employers, or even agreeable weather year-round)

      These are just some of the questions that come to top of my mind, but I’m sure there are plenty more. And after acceptance, I would take advantage of admission office’s offers to connect you with faculty/alumni/student. Yes, they’re trying to sell you their program, but like job interviews – they’re also trying to find the right fit of prospective students who would do well in their program (it certainly won’t help their case if a lot of students are dropping out / not graduating), so do take the time to ask those deeper questions about the program, the coursework & the resources before making a decision. Good luck!

      1. Making myself nuts...*

        My gut is saying the second school for the reasons listed by FB and HC above.
        Thanks everyone!

  107. Sour Grapes*

    What is the AAM community’s thoughts behind working for very small businesses? I currently work for a very small family owned and run business – I’m the only salaried, non-family member – and I’m struggling to see any perk for working for a company that’s so small. Despite being salaried, I have no benefits, no holidays off, and only have two weeks of vacation a year. And because we’re under the number of employees, we’re exempt from all major worker protections (FMLA, OSHA, etc). The work I do is fairly labor intensive so I’m at risk for a variety of workplace injuries, plus I’m most likely going to be starting a family in the next few years, and so these protections are becoming more and more important to me.

    I’m looking to leave my position for a variety of other reasons (including those listed above), and so just wondered what other people liked about working for super small companies? Between my own experiences (and many, many of the letters written in!) it seems like the bad outweighs the good. I’d love to have some good perks of working for small companies so I can reframe my way of looking at my work so I don’t go crazy here while I look for something else!

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Honestly, I’m at the point where I think it’s pretty reasonable to say that in general, working for small organizations is a bad idea unless you’re comfortable with a high likelihood of serious dysfunction.

      1. Beyond ANON for this*

        Can I just second this comment?

        I work for a small business. 2 owners are silent. 3 are on site. 2 of which are married to each other. They squabble constantly. the other day the wife called the husband an asshole. Another time he threw something in her office while they were fighting. They do not have a healthy relationship outside of work.

        The 3 owner is passive aggressive to a fault. The three of them don’t communicate. The 3rd owner is my direct boss and I will ask him stuff and he will say that he has to ask the other 2, and then he never will.

        The insurance SUCKS. The AP person and I are to our absolute limit with it. The lengths we have to drive to see a dr is ridiculous for our area. But they went cheap. And of course, they all have private insurance and don’t use what they offer their employees so they don’t understand why we need to take “SO MUCH TIME OFF” to go see a dr. BECAUSE I HAVE TO DRIVE 60 miles !

        And they are stingy with benefits and considering the size EXTREMELY unflexible. Like I couldn’t roll over a day from last year even though I would use it in the next week…. because….. just because….. We have like 6 different dress codes in the office…. which since there are only 8 of us based out of the office, 3 who basically just print and go, is ridiculous. I have to be in full uniform every day (n0 jeans) owners wear jeans, sweats, flip flops, etc. even on site.

        They manage by hindsight and you would not believe the verbal maneuvers they do to justify things…

        FYI I was the one who got in trouble for not answering my phone when I was sick. But there have been at least two saturdays since February where I was told I needed to work the day before and had to cancel plans. Not to mention, my boss scheduled me to do something on a Sunday then called me on a friday afternoon while i Was in the middle of a medical crisis with my daughter to tell me.

        Don’t get me started on the wiggly wobbily when it comes to FLSA, hiring practices, etc….

        I had never worked for a small org before and I NEVER EVER WILL again. (well I did work for a small church once, and it was small, even smaller, but as I like to say God was a decent boss and let me leave early on Fridays, and wear jeans) I am desperately looking to go back to a larger organization where laws and culture matter.

        1. T3k*

          Third this. I quit my last job because it was incredibly dysfunctional and I realized it wasn’t going to change until the owner had a wake-up call and decided they’d rather make it profitable than give jobs to family members. I’m talking about yelling at each other (sometimes within earshot of customers) thinking benefits is giving me the holidays off, and not letting me know when they’re not going to be in the office (I just loved telling people on the phones asking for my boss “I don’t know if they’re coming in today”). Oh, and if a relative is 3 hours late getting in, that’s no big deal despite them living just 5 mins. down the road, but if I’m even 15 mins. late my phone is ringing off the hook (and I lived 40 mins. away).

      2. JulieBulie*

        A very small company tends to be a hotbed of crazy. The interpersonal relationships (family or whatever) are more likely to be intense, and by joining them you will either feel like an outsider, or you will get sucked into their vortex.

        There is no HR department, and the people running the company may be totally unaware of legal/OSHA/EEOC requirements as well as basic corporate and professional niceties.

        Small companies sometimes look great on your resume if you’re given a lot of duties. That was the one plus for me. I’m grateful that I was able to leverage that experience into a much better job with a larger, more law-abiding employer.

    2. Antilles*

      I think there’s a limit where if you’re smaller than a given size (maybe 4-6 people total?), it’s just hugely problematic. When you’re that small, it’s legitimately feasible for the owner to basically handle everything business-related personally so suddenly everything about the business is based exclusively on how good the owner is.
      Whereas once you get even a little bigger (like 10-15 people), it’s suddenly no longer realistic for a single person to handle everything, so there has to be at least a couple Trusted People who aren’t the owner/family of owner to help manage stuff. And these Trusted People can provide a nice stabilizing effect to hold down the crazy.

    3. Triangle Pose*

      Same as AAM. Honestly, I hear a lot of gripes about “corporate america” and “big companies” but I’ve had my best experiences with function, results, complying with employment law, etc. at F50 companies. The small time dysfunction I read about here and anecdotally from folks I know totally boggles my mind.

    4. Sour Grapes*

      Thanks all – it does make me feel better to seem more justified in my decision to leave/never work for such a small company again! I left a large corporation for my current position and thought the first year was just the growing pains from that transition – as I work in the wine industry, most workplaces have their own little “quirks”. But after almost a second full year I know it’s more than that. Definitely a learning experience, I’m now applying to anything I can to get out and get back to some sort of semblance of normal workplace!

    5. Grabapple McGee*

      I love working for small businesses. I grew to absolutely HATE my former job, which was still a small biz but the largest I had worked for thus far. Before that, I generally worked for places where I was the only employee, or one of 2 or 3.

      Of course, it depends on how dysfunctional things are and what your tolerance level for that is. Also, you must factor in the importance of benefits, holidays, etc., which it sounds as tho you are.

      What I love about working small is (for me) the flexibility and autonomy. I have nobody looking over my shoulder. I am not micromanaged at all. In my current position, I have tons of flexibility to prioritize my work and, to and extent, my schedule. I am the only employee who does what I do, so my expertise is appreciated and my ideas are usually accepted.

      I do not get paid holidays or vacation time. It isn’t a problem for me; I live in a dual income household that makes up for that. No benefits either, which is a bit of a bummer, but again, something I can work around. I knew going in that it would be this way and I was willing to do it to escape the hell I was in at the time.

      I’ll never go back! I love being the only, or one of a very few!

    6. Anon for this*

      It really really depends on management. Really. I’ve worked for 4 small organizations (50/50 for-profit/non-profit), and two have been dysfunctional, one has been ok, and one has been great. It all comes down to whether the owner is professional/functional/rational/etc. So screen really carefully for that!

      I love working at my current org (10 employees) because we’re really tight-knit, there’s an opportunity to work far above what my ‘pay grade’ would be at a bigger organization in terms of org strategy, and we have next-to-know bureaucracy. We constantly reevaluate how we do things and are nimble in terms of how we can change based on that evaluation. We also have awesome benefits. I’ve actually found that the strength/professionalism of the benefits package in small companies is a really good indicator of how much they prioritize employees and have professionalized their administration. Not a perfect proxy, but a decent one.

      2. Sour Grapes*

        That’s a really interesting point about the benefits being generally indicative of the professionalism of the business! I bet you’re spot on with that.

  108. Former Invoice Girl*

    There was a letter recently about someone who applied for a writing job despite not having any relevant experience or a portfolio (I’ll post the link in a comment replying to this one for those who haven’t seen it), and I’ve been thinking about writing in to ask — how does one go about having a portfolio?

    I keep hearing “start a blog” and “see if you can write filler material for a local magazine” a lot, but other than that, what do you do? Say that you don’t have enough experience or courage to write for a smaller magazine yet, and want to try your hands just by yourself at first.

    I guess what I am asking is, those who already write in any capacity (I’m thinking more technical writing type of stuff than fiction), how did you start out? Do you, for example, start writing manuals for things in your home or about things you learn for your personal projects (I’ve started learning Excel a bit more seriously recently and been trying to write how-tos just for myself, for example)?

    I’m sorry if this sounds naive — I don’t have any experience writing anything professionally, and have no idea where to start. Thanks in advance to everyone – happy Friday!

    2. StartupLifeLisa*

      Try Medium! On Medium you can both publish on your own and submit to a variety of publications that have their own URLs, so if you get published in a few of those you can have a portfolio with bylines on 5 or 6 different URLs while only using one platform. Great way to start out.

      1. Former Invoice Girl*

        Thanks! I’d try this, but to be honest, my English isn’t what it used to be, and I’m not sure I can compete with native speakers. Thanks for the rec, anyway! It may come in handy at a later time.

    3. WellRed*

      It really needs to be published writing. I’ve gotten essays, poetry, term papers, etc. I don’t want that stuff. I want to see what you were able to get published. That includes college newspaper, local weeklies or mags, etc., or something on a website to name a few. I’m an editor for a business magazine.

      1. Former Invoice Girl*

        What you are saying makes sense — thanks for your input! I’ll keep this in mind.

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      When I got my first writing job, I used some letters to the editor I’d had published and an article I’d had published in a newspaper. But that was pre-internet. These days, it’s actually a lot easier because you can write for a whole variety of smaller websites that weren’t around before. If I were starting out today, that’s what I’d do.

      1. Former Invoice Girl*

        Thank you, Alison! It’s true — there are a whole lot more possibilities now. Now to get the courage to try…!

    5. Chaordic One*

      I would try to find something to do that is related to what you already do. Although I’m not actively looking for a writing job, I’ve recently written several articles for my volunteer Friends of the Library group newsletter, as well as letters asking for donations for our major fundraising project.

    6. Felicia*

      I got my portfolio started by writing for my college newspaper, and volunteering . There are so many small non profits looking for people to write content for their website, way more than I thought. And it was easier for me than other volunteering because I could do it on my own time as long as I submitted by the deadline.

      It really has to be published somewhere for a portfolio piece

    7. Ann O.*

      When I switched from academia to technical writing, I used a grammar handout that I’d written for a writing center that I worked at. I’m not sure what I would have done without that.

      Technical writing is its own genre, so I would look for opportunities to do documentation-based writing. My suggestion would be to poke around the open source community… it seems like there are always people who need volunteer documentation. I don’t think your writing needs to be professionally published for a technical writing sample, but I don’t hire so I could be wrong. Usually, technical writing jobs will have writing tests in addition to a writing sample. (I’ve also always been asked for a sample rather than a portfolio.)

  109. Victoria, Please*

    I have a wonderful student assistant who’s been with me for two years and is now graduating (sob! but so glad for her!). She has been amazing, a true little right hand, and I’ve written her many letters and suchlike, given raises, etc.

    I’d like to give her a graduation gift. Would it be way too much to give her a gift certificate to buy a nice professional bag (~$150)? I know it would be awesome from an aunt, but I’m wondering if it would be over-the-top and inappropriate from a boss.

    1. StartupLifeLisa*

      I think that would be a lovely gift since she’s graduating and starting a career!

    2. Jabes*

      I’ll be the curmudgeon and say that $150 seems like quite a lot – you have a great relationship but it is a professional relationship at its core, so the gifts you get should be professional (as in, would your other student workers resent not getting $150? Should they expect to?)

      I will also say that an actual bag valued at $150 feels more palatable than a gift certificate for that much. Probably more meaningful too.

      1. Victoria, Please*

        See, this is why I’m asking — this feels both okay or inappropriate, depending. A bag is indeed personal and I would hesitate to pick one out for someone unless I knew them very well indeed, so a gift certificate feels a bit more arms-length. But it’s a lot. Because a nice bag costs a lot. But it’s a lot, and that feels inappropriate, but she really HAS been SO AWESOME; like, it’s a good day when she’s here kind of awesome.

        I don’t have any other student workers who work directly with me; the department has several and they are great but they don’t report to me. I contribute to the small gifts that the department gives them when they leave.

        1. Not a Real Giraffe*

          You could always buy them a bag you think they will like but be sure to give them a gift receipt in case they want to exchange it, no hard feelings.

    3. CM*

      I think it’s very generous, but since you’ve been so close with her, not over the top.

    4. KatieKate*

      A little over the top. A really nice bottle of wine, a nice dinner out, or a nice portfolio (less expensive than a bag) could be good options!

    5. Anxa*

      I’m kind of torn on this because it does seem over the top.

      That said, I haven’t really been able to comfortable afford a nice, professional bag. The closest thing was a cleaned up one from a thrift store, so this could have been fantastic. Maybe something similar, like a portfolio, would be great. I think other things that would help, like a manicure or haircut, are just too personal.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      As a job seeker or as an organization looking to hire someone? What’s the context?

  111. anon for this*

    I’m a recruiter and one of the questions I ask during interviews is “have you ever been convicted of a crime”. Because that sometimes matters for job placement so I need to know.

    I’ve worked with people who have all sorts of backgrounds and it typically doesn’t phase me. Today though, I had a guy disclose that he was incarcerated for possession of child pornography. *shudders* Give me all the drug dealers and burglars any day.

    3. Security SemiPro*

      I am so, so glad that my job no longer requires me to be in the loop for dealing with child pornography. I never had to look at it (Do. Not. Do. That. Ever.) but handling the clean up of tainted systems stressed me out so badly, just by association. Its the only part of a job I’ve ever asked to be taken from me because I couldn’t hack it.

      I commiserate. That’s hard.

  112. HireFreeze*

    Hello! I’m in a dilemma and would love thoughts here for those who have been through this (thanks in advance!).

    I accepted an offer recently and now realize it was a mistake! I’m 2 weeks in, but the company is not doing well (significant miss on sales/profit, merger with another company). Also, the role wasn’t what I expected at all. Would it be fair to continue interviewing? I realize it’s a tough situation to place the company in, but I also understand I need to look out for myself.

    Thanks in advance!

    1. Grabapple McGee*

      You should ALWAYS look out for yourself. Nobody else is! Who cares if it is “fair” to keep looking…. you do what you have to do to keep a roof over your head and groceries on the table. Why would you even consider staying on a sinking ship?

    2. marmaladechainsaw*

      I’ve been in this situation before…but I stayed. I realized about a month in that I didn’t like my new job but here I sit, two years later (I’m trying to get out–luckily had a few interviews lately and am hoping I get a new job soon!!).

      Anyways, I’d say to definitely continue interviewing if you have that gut feeling that it isn’t a good fit for you, especially if the company is failing because most likely things won’t get better. I probably wouldn’t quit until you had something else, but definitely start looking and applying elsewhere. Yes, it might put them in a tough situation, but you definitely wouldn’t be the first person to leave a job after just a short amount of time–it happens! And at the end of the day, you DO definitely have to look out for yourself–don’t ever sacrifice your happiness/quality of life/etc. just so you don’t inconvenience a company. That’s what I keep reminding myself whenever I start feeling guilty about trying to leave my under-staffed and horribly dysfunctional workplace.

      Good luck!

    3. JulieBulie*

      Continue to apply and interview for other jobs. My very first job out of college, I knew before lunchtime that I had walked into a bad situation. Since I had accepted the job just three days previous, I hadn’t even officially stopped my job search. So I continued it.

      Three months later, they let me go. The next day, I followed up on some of the ads I had responded to. (This was in 1989, when you looked for jobs in the newspaper.) And two weeks after that, I got my very first GOOD job out of college!

      Don’t feel bad about this. The company was already in a tough situation, and the next corner they cut might be you.

  113. French Toast Friday*

    My boss keeps asking me if I’m happy here but I’m miserable so I keep deflecting. I know I should just lie and say “yes” but I just will not let those words come out of my mouth.

    I hate the culture here. It’s supposed to be a “non-c0porate” “fun” place but it’s ridiculous and everything AAM hates. Open work space (so loud every day because the culture is to interact and they basically chat and giggle like children ALL DAY. They just sit around and chit chat! Each little cube group does their own thing like put out a big spread of food which invites a lot of attention; there is a cube group that works out-pushups and sit ups and stuff…

    There are SO MANY planned events, happy hours every week-in AND out of the office, scavenger hunt, picnic, parties, charity events, birthdays, contests, cook-off, challenges, team building, ice cream, dress up, cube decoration, kids day…and I’ve only been here 3 months!

    I have a higher level, newly created position than everyone else and I can’t concentrate with all the “fun.” They are all BEST FRIENDS in and out of the office and there’s about 50 of them. CHEERFUL MONSTERS! But seriously I am not an old stick in the mud or anything. I was involved in some very heavy happy hour shenanigans at my last job but something is just different here, they are all so immature but it’s not an age thing, the biggest offender is 46! She’s one of these that cannot shut up and if no one is there to listen, she talks to herself.

    I am terrified to walk to the kitchen because it is like walking through a playground where all the kids have been let loose and they are running and screaming and laughing.

    I like the job and I love my boss but I am so PHYSICALLY UNCOMFORTABLE. He has let me work from home a bit and they moved the 46 yr old talker, but guess what, her voice carries. We’re expanding and I will have a private office but maybe not for 6 months and I don’t know if I can survive. And that won’t end the “fun” events.

    He keeps asking me if I’m happy and if I’m going to last the 6 months and I’m like “ummmm well you know it’s been a culture shock for me here…” And I think he is getting worried that I will leave and I am certainly worried that I won’t be able to last.

    I know people are saying I keep to myself and I’m not getting involved with all the events, so I’m getting that reputation but they’re preventing me from getting my work done, so I don’t look at them as people I want to spend more time with. I’m getting paid double and triple what they are and have a bonus depending on revenue goals. I’m bitter that they could be a roadblock to my income. I also dress professionally to work even through the dress code is “just rolled out of bed style” (I meet with clients) and they constantly shame me, “I don’t know how you wear heels every day.”

    I don’t know what to do. Nothing will change, this culture is my boss’ (and his partners’) PRIDE AND JOY. They love the laid back comfortable thing they have going on here. And I respect that, I imagine it’s great place to work if you like this sort of thing. If you want to wear your pajamas and sit around and eat and chit chat and play all day. BTW it’s mostly a call center environment so they answer a couple client calls and since they are so happy and stress-free, customer service ratings are off the charts. My role is in another new division and requires concentration.

    I don’t even know where I am going with this post. I read AAM everyday as a manager and for an escape and I’ve been thinking of writing this rant for awhile. Thanks for reading.

    1. StartupLifeLisa*

      I don’t think you should lie if your boss is directly asking unless you think your boss is the kind of malicious jerk who would ask that kind of question just to root out whoever doesn’t like the laid-back culture and fire them… he’s probably asking because it’s obvious from your body language and demeanor that you’re miserable!

      As you can probably tell from my username I work in one of those “laid back wear your pajamas to work chat in the kitchen all day” cultures and as much as I enjoy the flexibility, there’s a definite downside. We’ve lost a few people who are more like you who ended up leaving because they wanted to get more done but didn’t want to be a huge buzzkill by calling out the culture as unproductive and causing people to lose privileges.

      Maybe you could tell your boss something like you said here? “To be honest, no, I’m not happy, but I don’t expect you to change anything to accommodate me, because I know that you love the culture exactly the way it is and I’m decidedly in the minority here. I find it frustrating to meet with clients and try to appear professional when everyone else is chatting in the kitchen in their pajamas. I consider this my own burden to bear and I know that I’m compensated for my trouble, as I’m making much more money than the folks who are more engaged with the chatter in the break room and the constant social events, but since you asked, I would be happier working in a culture more focused on work.”

    2. Jabes*

      I think you have a good perspective on your own situation – on the office culture being a bad fit. I would love an office like that but I certainly wouldn’t resent someone who didn’t.

      You said “my boss keeps asking me if I’m happy here,” and intentionally trying to assume the best in everyone, I would think that’s good. He seems invested in you as an employee and if he’s a reasonable and effective manager, he may try to accommodate your complaint that you don’t do well with such a casual office environment. Maybe suggest one or two concrete things that would make it possible for you to stay, and if he’s a great boss, he’ll make an effort to keep you around.

    3. CM*

      If I were you, I would try to leave, and unless you’re very worried about being let go, I’d be more open with my manager about how you feel like your work habits are incompatible with the company’s culture. He might be able to brainstorm with you about ideas for either improving things or creating a transition plan for you.

    4. WellRed*

      I fell like if your boss is constantly asking if you’re happy, he knows that you are not. It sounds hideous, but would it be markedly better once you get an office? Also, I don’t think it would hurt to use startuplisa’s suggestion of expressing frustration with something egregious (pajamas!) but that you understand it’s the culture.

    5. JulieBulie*

      If he senses you’re unhappy (and it sounds like he does), I don’t think it would hurt to say that the energy level is a bit taxing, and you thrive in a more low-key environment, especially for the kind of work you need to do.

      Or, it might hurt very much. It depends on what kind of person your boss is, and how much he values you. But it sounds like he really does want to know, and it might do him some good to hear it.

    6. Girasol*

      Is it the cheer that’s bothering you or the noise level? The second might have an easier solution.

  114. Death Rides a Pale Volvo*

    Hello from the midst of my cross-country move! I have a question about someone at OldJob. It concerns religion and work wear, so if you hate these topics, now you know.

    OldJob has no dress code. It is a very small, private, secular college. They recently hired a new CFO who keeps wearing a big ol’ belt buckle that says “JESUS SAVES.”

    The Dean of Students is offended and said something to the President, who professes to see nothing wrong with it. The Dean asked my opinion, as someone with no investment in the disagreement.

    My opinion is it crosses the line from religious necessity (being required to wear a cross or a hijab, for example) to proseltyzing (spelling?). It’s not a subtle belt buckle–it’s friggin’ huge. But again, I could be wrong and this isn’t my area of expertise. Thoughts? Is my opinion completely out of whack? I am completely open to that possibility.

    1. Temperance*

      I totally agree with you on this. I consider that belt buckle to be a form of proselytizing, and wouldn’t want to work with that guy. However, people who do things like wear tacky belt buckles, in my experience, also tend to be litigious. He’s wearing it because he wants to talk about his faith. It’s not equivalent to hijab, or wearing a cross or Star of David necklace.

    2. Antilles*

      With the caveat that I don’t know every single one of America’s 400,000-ish congregations, I can confidently say that no church I have ever attended or even heard of considers belt buckles are part of the worship. So no, you aren’t out of whack here, there’s no “religious necessity” involved here.
      More importantly, it’s not subtle. You don’t wear that kind of belt buckle unless you *want* people to notice it, realize it and ask about it. Whereas if he just wanted something to remind himself of his faith, there are so many other ways to do it without being so showy about it.

      1. Temperance*

        I’m wondering if he’s one of the evangelicals who believes that if you ask about his beliefs, he MUST witness to you, which is why he’s wearing a giant tacky-ass belt buckle.

    3. katamia*

      I agree that it’s proselytizing, and if the CFO were my coworker/boss, I’d be uncomfortable with it too. The president’s reaction would have me looking for a new job, honestly.

    4. CM*

      I would say that if it’s a student, they can express themselves however they want. But I agree that for the CFO, part of having a professional image is not being perceived as proselytizing, and he’s already offended somebody.

    5. JulieBulie*

      It’s tacky and it’s intended to be provocative. It’s working. This is what happens when there is NO dress code.

      I once worked at a place that required, among other things, that clothing not have any words, clothing, or logos on it unless it was clothing from the company (Pour It On With Teapots Inc.!). This struck me as brilliant. Now clearly some troublemaker could have found a way to push the boundaries, but no one ever did.

      So your opinion is not out of whack. I would certainly be willing to give this guy a chance to prove that he’s not as unprofessional as he seems, but just ONE chance.

    6. Thlayli*

      I’m not American so maybe I amn’t getting the legal issues here, but I don’t really see why it’s a problem. If there’s no dress code who cares what he wears. Sure it makes him look like a bit of an idiot and unprofessional, and and will probably make some coworkers want to avoid him. But that’s his problem and a result of the choice he made so nothing you need to get involved in.

      he’s not hurting anyone. It’s not interfering with anyone else’s work. The message on the buckle is not insulting to any person or group. So why is it a problem?

      1. Undine*

        He’s in a very high position. It’s hard for people who report to him or who are lower ranking in general.

        1. Thlayli*

          Why is it hard though, that’s what I’m not getting. If he was wearing a buckle that insulted buddhists for example, I can see that would be hard for any buddhists reporting to him. But wearing a buckle about his OWN religion not mentioning anyone else’s? I don’t get why that’s difficult for other people.

          1. Jessica*

            Thlayli, I think you definitely don’t get it because you’re not American. Because of the political dominance of the majority religion, and the fact that a substantial minority of the followers of the majority religion believe that it should shape our national politics and our country should basically be a theocracy, wearing this sort of emblem is not just a religious statement. It’s something that, in the American context, is pretty recognizably a political statement.

            Bear in mind also that this isn’t something required by his religion, and it isn’t just a religious symbol. It’s a statement in words of a religious doctrine. How would you feel about an employee who wore a “Jews will burn in hell” T-shirt to work? This is a little subtler, but the meaning is similar.

            There’s also positive correlation between Christians who are more likely to wear proselytizing garb and those who are more likely to be hostile/hateful toward other groups in society. Other Americans recognize that, and that’s why we are having negative reactions.

            1. Thlayli*

              Well I guess you know your country and I don’t. So I’ll just chalk this up to “American” and move on.
              But just FYI everything you said is not an explanation. It boils down to “other people I’ve met who wear things like this is bad, therefore everyone who wears things like this are bad.” And it’s awfully close to “all Christians of this particular denomination are bad”.

  115. Lillian Styx*

    Does anyone have any resources or ideas on how to arrange people in an existing floor plan? I’m looking for general advice–I know needs vary wildly based on type of office and workflow. We’re dealing with an issue where we just kind of plunk a new person in whichever office was most recently vacated with no real thought given to experience, seniority, etc. So the long-timers are staying where they are in shared offices while newbies are getting their own office right off the bat in some cases. I’ve sat staring at the floor plan for an hour and I got nothing! Thanks!

    1. Networking newbie*

      I’m a graduate student. Bench space and office space are always at a premium here. Office space is given based on seniority once one is vacated. We have had an empty office twice (due to someone taking another job or retiring). The first time it was empty it was given to the most senior person without an office. The next time, they were in the process of hiring someone for a senior position and let everyone know that the office was earmarked for that person. It doesn’t seem too hard to offer the office to someone with seniority to see if they are interested in moving.

      1. KR*

        I definitely agree with having specific spots /offices for a specific position rather than whoever is next on the list. That way when the HR admin leaves a sales person won’t accidentally be slotted into her desk.

    2. Colette*

      First, I’d identify jobs that need special offices – managers and HR need more privacy, for example. Slot them into the appropriate spaces.

      Next, look at who works together – you don’t want one finance person working in the middle of sales, or marketing mixed in with software support if you can avoid it. Try to keep teams together.

      Finally, make general categories of space. These 6 are shared, these 5 are normal, these 3 have windows. Allocate people to categories based on seniority. So if someone with a window seat leaves and the next most senior person is in a normal space, move them to the window if they want it. (If they don’t, ask the next most senior person.)

  116. Allergic to Chocolate Teapots*

    So last week I had posted (under Anon for This) about applying for a Chocolate Teapots position at another company when I’ve been telling my boss I have no interest in Chocolate Teapots because I wanted to avoid a toxic colleague. In the intervening week, another colleague who handles Hazelnut and Caramel Teapots announced she was leaving the company, and my boss told me I would be handling all my current workload in addition to Hazelnut and Caramel (this situation is not as delicious as it is sounding btw). That, along with some bad health news about my mother made me almost burst into tears when I heard this, but I managed to keep it together and voice my objections. My boss’s reply was “Well yes, it’s definitely going to be tight for a while but eventually we’ll hire and train someone in about a year or so.”

    So I’ve been applying everywhere. I really hope Chocolate Teapots works out, but anywhere will do. Wish me luck, AAM readers.

    1. Namast'ay In Bed*

      You have my deepest sympathies. This sucks sooo much, especially when someone claims to understand the awfulness of a situation but then tells you they have an active plan to do nothing.

      I know exactly how you feel. At OldJob I was part of a three-person team supporting about 11 separate divisions and we were positively drowning. We talked to the Big Boss about how we needed more people to support the increasing demands of the company and we were told “Hey I know you guys are pretty busy, and if/when we end up acquiring these extra divisions [and DOUBLE in size] in the next couple years we can probably look at hiring another person.”

      I can’t even. I’m so glad I don’t work there any more, and I’m sending good vibes your way that you’ll find a new and better job soon.

    2. CM*

      Good for you for keeping it together and standing up for yourself… even if your boss didn’t listen. Good luck moving somewhere better.

    5. No Name Yet*

      YIKES. Sending good non-crazy chocolate teapot thoughts! (Also good thoughts to your mother, sorry about the bad news.)

  117. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

    I returned to work on Weds after a 1.5 week vacation and I am definitely having motivation problems getting back in the swing. The good news is, it’s actually been relatively quiet here (and was while I was out – miracle!), but that’s part of why I haven’t been able to kickstart my motivation! I thrive on the chaos, a little bit …

  118. Rosamond*

    Ideas on how to have a come-to-Jesus conversation with a report who constantly, chronically complains about being overwhelmed and stressed, but balks at having anything taken off their plate? I need outside perspective on this, because it’s such a pet peeve area for me, and my natural inclination is to dismiss the person as a martyr who wants recognition for their suffering. Unfortunately, ignoring or dismissing the behavior makes the complaints grow louder and more inappropriate.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Do you agree that her workload is too high? If so, then stop negotiating with her and just tell her you’re taking some things off her plate. Ask if she wants input into what those are, but just move to do it.

      If you don’t agree she should be this overwhelmed, that’s a different conversation: “You’ve mentioned a lot how stressed and overwhelmed you feel. I hear you that there are a lot of moving pieces to juggle, but this is the role. If you have specific suggestions on what might make things more manageable, let’s talk about those. Or if you don’t think it’s the right match for you, let’s talk about that. But I want to keep this constructive and focused on what to do.”

      1. Rosamond*

        Yes, it is a little too high, though that’s a temporary condition. And it probably is to the point where we need to stop having conversations about priorities and what can be dropped (because her answer is: Nothing, it’s all high-priority and required) and tell her that I can make the decision either with or without her input.

        1. Mandy*

          The problem is what is the manager’s definition of “temporary” versus the employee’ definition? I’ve just gone through this where I was to be “temporarily” overallocated. That’s been going on for 6 months and I don’t consider it to be temporary.

    2. StartupLifeLisa*

      I’ve been that person, and direct confrontation works best to snap me out of that mode. My boss will say something like “Lisa, you’re doing too much and all of your work is suffering as a result. I need you to focus exclusively on X and Y and deliver those at the highest level you possibly can. To that end, I’m taking A, B, and C off your plate because I expect exceptional work from you on X and Y. This isn’t a punishment, this is me helping you.”

      1. Rosamond*

        Thanks – The first part has happened: We’ve talked about how her workload is too high, she can’t do it all and maintain her performance and sanity levels, and the top priorities are X and Y. I think the second part, where I more assertively take things off her plate, is what I need to do now.

        1. Allypopx*

          I wish someone had done that for me when I was in her place. I was so terrified of failing or being seen as weak I couldn’t voluntarily give something up, and I was so overwhelmed that I couldn’t even figure out what would be the best thing for me to drop. I think you might have to proactively manager her workload, even though that’s less than ideal.

  119. Jodi*

    Hopefully I’m not too buried to get some advice…I have an adjustable desk in my cubicle that my monitor and laptop attach to. We’ve had some pretty major construction happening across the street from our office for a few months now, and it’s constantly shaking my screens. Like little vibrations throughout the entire day. I’ve been getting more migraines recently and trying to figure out why, and I’m pretty sure it’s the constant shaking of my screens causing it. How can I bring this up with my manager? I need advice for a firm yet reasonable way to say “This construction is causing me migraines and I can’t continue to work like this for the next 18 months.” (The project is expected to be done around fall 2018).

    It’s really really frustrating to have to deal with weekly midday migraines – I asked him to go home early once when it was especially bad, which he agreed to, but I can only do that so many times. My office doesn’t currently have a work from home policy, and they blame that on general HR politics. They are exploring ways to be more accommodating and flexible because they realize that that’s where the workforce is going, but we just aren’t there yet. Do I need to get a doctor’s note? I’ve gone through the whole process before for my standing desk so I don’t mind doing it again, but I’m just not sure if this would fall under the “ADA compliance” umbrella.

    1. LizB*

      Well, the construction isn’t causing the migraines, the shaking screens are, and it might be possible to mitigate that problem without working from home. Is it possible to use your standing desk less so your screens can sit on a more stable surface? (Sounds like the desk was an ADA accommodation to begin with, so I realize that might not be possible.) Can you switch desks temporarily so you’re further away from the construction? If you’re reading a lot on your screens, can you print materials so you don’t have to watch the shaking? Can you build in a routine of taking more eye breaks during the day?

      If working from home really is the only solution, I think you can just ask about it before going through the trouble to get a doctor’s note. “Hey manager, as you know I’ve been getting really bad migraines lately. I’ve figured out that it’s due to my monitors shaking all day from the construction. Continuing to get migraines is really going to impact my productivity and health. Can we talk about a work-from-home arrangement?”

      1. Jodi*

        Yes, the desk is an ADA accommodation. Unfortunately there’s no way to get away from the construction within my own office, I would need to move to the other side of the building (if it’s even better over there) or another building entirely. Printing stuff out could be a solution – the irony there is that I have a running joke with my manager about how many trees he wastes by printing anything and everything – but that could definitely help mitigate the issue (and maybe help him realize how serious I am since he knows I hate printing things unnecessarily). The solution may be as simple as eye breaks.

    2. Beancounter Eric*

      You might talk to your IT and whomever deals with office furniture at your workplace.

      Depending on how your monitors are mounted, they might be moved to a more-firm structure, vibration absorbing pads, or some other solution to minimize their vibrating.

  120. Fiona The Baby Hippo*

    TL;DR: What are your tips for keeping yourself motivated at work when you feel like your bare minimum is usually OK?

    I’ve drafted a long letter to Alison about how I’ve been having a hard time staying motivated at work but am not quite ready to go on the job market again quite yet for a variety of reasons, but get too nervous to pull the trigger, probably irrationally, that someone could figure out it was me who wrote the letter.

    Basically, I’ve been in my job for a while and while I one hoped it would be a place I could be for 5-10 years, it’s starting to feel more and more like a 2-3 year gig. Before I start aggressively looking again, I really want to make sure I set myself up for the best new position possible and can make a salary leap into a better company. That means having more impressive stuff to add to my resume, something that would be largely self-directed. I need to take on new projects, find time to work with people in other departments, etc. The issue isn’t really time, I’m so disillusioned I spend a lot of the day killing time organizing my inbox and taking lunch, etc. It’s just hard to stay motivated when I feel so undervalued and underpaid, and knowing that if I do the basic minimum of my job it will keep my boss happy. This is compounded by the fact that my best friend at work is equally disillusioned, and a lot of what we talk about is how/why/where we will work next.

    So what tricks do you, the commenters, have to give yourself a kick in the butt to stay motivated when it’s all about accountability to yourself and not someone else? (This is been an ongoing problem for me, and probably why I make a lot better employee than I did student – I didn’t mind getting C’s since it just affected me, but I do want to do well when other people/a larger cause is at stake).

    1. Rosamond*

      Are you in the kind of profession where you can work on projects with people outside your immediate department or company? That was something that helped me when I felt unmotivated and unappreciated. I worked on some professional development and independent projects with colleagues who I felt really valued me. That was also great for networking and resume-building.

  121. StartupLifeLisa*

    What productivity/organizational tools are we using these days? Especially those of us who work, freelance, study, and have a busy private life too?

    I need to get myself more organized… I have SO MUCH going on and the result is a ton of email anxiety & storing project deadlines + moving parts in my head rather than somewhere they’re harder to forget. I’ve tried Evernote, Trello, Asana, and bullet journaling by hand, and they’ve all proved hard to work into my daily routine – one problem is protecting enough of my time to actually update any of these things, but I also just haven’t found the tool that I love using enough to look forward to putting my projects into it and updating it at the end of each day.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      First off, you should use organisational tools that actually work for you and match how you think about things. Secondly, I’m curious about why you’re inputting updates at the end of the day – have you tried doing it at the beginning and prioritising things for the day?

      The only thing that works for me is a word document with a bunch of bulleted lists e.g. priorities for the week, current projects, things to do for project x. Like a bullet journal in one document. In the morning I look at that and use it to plan my day – and then write my tasks on cute sticky notes I can throw out when I’m done. This works for me. Nothing else does.

      In my private life I use Remember The Milk for date-based reminders and Ikiru for making lists. I do not like to do any of these things in any other way. I have come to realise that my ideal solution can involve more than one method/app/whatever. Putting them all in one isn’t better as then I’m not happy. Now I get everything the way I want.

      1. StartupLifeLisa*

        I’ve been trying to do the BuJo technique where you make a daily goal list (e.g. did I get to inbox zero today, did I drink water today, did I meditate today, did I finish my one most important task of the day today…) and give yourself a check in the column for each daily goal you complete, so that you can watch your graph change over time if you start meeting your daily goals more often. Writing is easier for me at night in general, so I’ve been trying to update from the day that just ended & organize task lists for the upcoming day each night before bed. Unfortunately that often doesn’t actually happen, whether because I can’t find the journal & pens I need, I’m just too tired by bedtime, etc, etc…

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          Right, so that technique doesn’t work for you, so there’s no point forcing it!

    2. Rosamond*

      At work I use a combination of Outlook tools and paper notes. At the beginning of the month I set monthly goals, then break those into weekly and daily tasks as needed. I don’t update at the end of the day. I prioritize at the beginning and check things off as I do them.

      My husband and I have a shared Google calendar that we each keep updated with travel plans, appointments, child care stuff, etc. We also have a whiteboard at home just as a catch-all for “don’t forget this” messages.

      For personal things, like shopping lists and whatnot, I just use notes on my phone.

    3. Security SemiPro*

      Omnifocus – I think its mac only. I love that it has Contexts, as well as tasks/notes and I have it set up with hotkeys from my mail program. Emails that need larger attention just pop on over. I use the contexts primarily for people – things I need to discuss with individuals or in certain meetings – but also for equipment/location/brain space. (I have a list of things to do on badly focused/bad pain days. Simple things that don’t need much thought, not time sensitive, but that still set me up for better productivity after I do them.)

      The hot keys and contexts mean that I can easily note something for a different context and never have to really have it in my mind at all. Then, the next time I see Joan, up pops the list and I ask her about Cecil’s spout design question, Maggie’s budget request for extra dark chocolate, and the longer discussion on the VP’s rice sculpture we noted in the summer strategy meeting, but said would have to wait.

      I use Zero Inbox strategies, while not actually maintaining an empty inbox. Do the things you can quickly, sort the things you can’t do quickly into times you can do them.

      For daily tasks I use google keep or a literal sticky note on my monitor. If the list is more than 3 things on a meeting heavy day, I need to rethink my strategy. Its an ephemeral list, but making it first thing in the morning is pretty helpful in keeping myself honest about my goals and on track.

      For my personal life, I use google everything – I have my family’s google calendars synced to my work calendar so I can compare and contrast everything at once when I need to. (When can MiniPro go to the dentist? Who can take them?) I block out errands as well as appointments. I have house cleaning time on my calendar. This helps me see when I’ve made internal plans that would have to be re made if I accept another appointment. (When will clean clothes happen if I accept a volunteer commitment over laundry time?) It feels ridiculous, but I don’t wear swim suits to work, and I still recognize my husband so its working out okay.

      My job is fast paced people communication, lots of context switching (between people, between projects) with few breaks to gather thoughts or refocus. I have to set aside specific time for longer strategic thinking/deeper individual work, and that’s about once a week for a couple of hours/half a day at a time. I need that time for things other than getting myself reorganized, so all of my systems have to run at full rate all the time, they can’t take set up time or large chunks of maintenance time.

      1. StartupLifeLisa*

        Ooh, I’ve never tried omnifocus, but the Contexts sounds like how I’ve been trying to set up my bullet journal – that’s definitely how my mind works naturally, I forget whole chunks of information in between being in the correct context and then suddenly discover it’s all retained when I’m in the context again. (For example, if I know you I probably have no idea what your spouse’s name is unless I’m looking at you, but if I’m looking at you I remember your whole family history.)

        Thanks, gonna give this one a try!

    4. KR*

      I’ve recently started using Outlook tasks and I’m in love. Before I would make a daily list of what I wanted to get done every day and set Calendar reminders/work blocks

    5. CatCat*

      Using a Kanban board at work has helped me so much that I am going to start using one at home. I use the board to sort things I need to do, things that are in progress, things I am waiting to hear from someone on, and things I am working on today.

      For things I am working on today, I just make a checklist of any specific tasks associated with the things for use on that day. Next day is a new list.

      Super low tech, but has really helped me keep on top of things.

    6. OtterB*

      I like Workflowy. It’s essentially a way to create nested bulleted lists and extremely flexible. You can use hashtags and @mentions and then search on those things.

  122. Sugar of lead*

    There’s something that happened at work I’d like to run by you guys.

    Background: First, I recently started a new job. At this job, we spend most of our shift in vehicles, two to a truck, and go where TPTB send us. Second, I don’t want to say I’m autistic, because I’ve never been diagnosed and I don’t feel comfortable self-dxing, but I do have a number of autistic traits, including sensory issues, especially with noise. This usually isn’t a problem. I can deal with the noise and chaos during assignments, as long as I have relative quiet the rest of the time.

    Yesterday, however, my partner played the radio all the time AND made personal calls pretty much non-stop, AND the dispatch radio kept screaming static, and when I finally got the guts to ask him to turn the radio off while we drove back at the end of the day, he listened to music on his headphones AND SANG ALONG OUT LOUD. Cue the worst sensory overload since high school. I felt like banging my head against the dashboard just to shut out all the noise. I told him it was a migraine to explain the odd behavior and aversion to sound, but he still probably thinks I’m a head case, which I am.

    Hopefully I’m not going to have to work with him again, but I’m worried I’ll get someone like him. I don’t like standing up for myself because most people will get defensive and it will just end badly for me, and I’m not sure I want management knowing I have these issues.

    Should I just find another job where I can work alone? Talk to my partners at the beginning of the shift? Has anyone else had an experience like that? Sorry for the wallotextmess; I’m still a little messed up.

    1. fposte*

      I think this is a tough one; if you’re really in a truck all shift, a lot of people will like music, and headphones is probably the best you can ask for. If you have any control over who you’re assigned with, it might be useful to find people who prefer things a little quieter and then ask to be scheduled with them.

    2. Veronica*

      Oh my goodness, I think that would drive someone without sensory issues batty — it would me! I really think this particular person’s behavior was wildly out of step with most norms. You don’t listen to the radio loudly when you’re in the car with another person unless you both agree to it, and if the person asks you politely to turn it down, you certainly don’t sing along. I really feel like this person was an outlier, Sugar of lead, but if you have to work with him again and he won’t cut it out, I’d talk to a supervisor.

    3. LizB*

      I vote for talking to your partners at the beginning of the shift. “Good morning! Just so you know, I get really bad headaches when there are too many sources of noise going on all day, so I need X. Can we do that?”

      X might be:
      – no music in the vehicle, but you’re fine if partner uses headphones so you can’t hear it
      – if you’re going to make a call or have a conversation, please turn off the radio
      – to be left totally alone during your break (and get a pair of ear defenders/use a white noise app with headphones, or whatever else helps you reset)
      – no radio or talking when you’re the one driving
      – to wear earplugs/ear defenders when partner is driving (since it’s probably not safe to do so when you’re driving)
      – whatever else will work. I don’t think you’ll get a lot of traction with “please don’t talk to me at all OR listen to music while we drive around all day,” so you need to figure out what will be enough to get you through a shift

      I guess it’s possible that your partners will still get defensive, but if you frame it as, “Hey, here’s a thing about me, can we deal with it this way?” instead of “You are loud and obnoxious,” people will probably be fine with it. And FWIW, your partner yesterday does sound totally obnoxious.

    4. Parenthetically*

      Holy crap, I am physically recoiling.

      A) I don’t think you’re a head case. I think you’re a person with a high-end-of-normal-range aversion to ridiculous amounts of sound.

      B) I vote bringing it up right away. “Hey, FYI, I get a migraine (or whatever other reason you feel comfortable with) when there are too many competing noises happening, so I’d really appreciate if we could keep the music/talking to a low volume. It helps me hear the dispatch radio when I need to as well. Does that all sound good? Great!” Body language helps here, as well as brevity. Smile, nod, keep it short.

  123. ThatGirl*

    First off, disappointment: was a finalist for a great-sounding job at a great-sounding company with a shorter commute and good company culture and….didn’t get it.

    Minor argh, really?!? this week was connecting with a former co-worker who is now a project manager, thought extremely highly of me and told me she’s been trying to get me back since I was laid off. Only I signed an agreement in order to get severance that means I can’t work there again. Ever. Even as a freelancer. Unless some executive signs off. Even though I don’t reaaallly want to work there again, being able to freelance for awhile would’ve been nice…

      1. ThatGirl*

        To me it reads ambiguously; the exact language is “Employee promises not to reapply or otherwise seek re-employment with the Company. Any limited exceptions … must be authorized in writing by the Chief Executive Officer and must receive appropriate concurrent approvals.”

        So, I didn’t reapply or seek employment; she reached out to me. But she said she was told “nope, can’t remploy her.” And I kind of doubt the CEO (5,000+ employees, though I did work at HQ) is going to be bothered to sign off on some random former employee coming back to write as a freelancer.

        1. Triangle Pose*

          Might be a routine sign off though. My SO just signed a non-compete like agreement that says he will have 6 month paid cooling off period before begining work for a competitor of his new employers. SO was concerned that if he got a new job with competitor he wouldn’t be able to start for 6 months and even though it’s paid it might be a dealbreaker for hypothetical future employer. This clause is usually for sales reps but when he pushed back he was told that for non-sales reps this has been waived 100% of the time but there is no getting it taken out of the agreement.

          Worth inquiring to find out if this company routinely signs off on re-hires (esp if the agreement was condition of severance).

          1. ThatGirl*

            I’m just not even sure who I would push back with; if the project manager was already told “nope” then there’s probably nothing else I can do. And when I was going over the agreement with HR, she did highlight that and confirm that it meant never.

            It’s not really worth fighting to me, I just find it a little frustrating.

  124. Outta Here*

    I’ve got an interview with a good lead to a job lined up! Whoo hoo!

    In other news, my department people are dropping like flies. 50% turnover after 0% for years. It’s kind of sad how badly it’s all shaking out.

    Management said get with it or get out–they aren’t interested in listening so people are getting out.

  125. allthatremains*

    I recently accepted a mid-level position with small non-profit. I’ll be getting interns to help with my programs over the summer and during school year. This is really the first time where I’ve been on the other side of the interview, and wondering if folks have good suggestions for what to be asking potential interns (esp. those who have experience interviewing interns!) Part of the issue is I’m still becoming familiar with the organization and my responsibilities, though there are some projects I know I need assistance with right away. Any tips for good questions to ask or how to spot red flags would be greatly appreciated!

    2. Veronica*

      One of the questions I like to ask interns is what they want to get out of the internship so I’m sure what’s on offer is a good fit with their expectations. I need interns who have enough background that they can complete the first 60 percent of the work independently, then we have a strong feedback/revision structure to help massage projects to completion. So it’s a great fit for interns that want to refine their craft, but not a great fit for interns who’re more interested in job shadowing as opposed to content creation.

      I will say this — having to teach interns how to do my job has made me so much better at it! I’ve had to think through my processes and made some changes to my flow based on watching other people adapt to it. Good luck!

    3. H.C.*

      Interviewed my fair share of intern candidates at nonprofit OldJob – one area worth asking about candidate’s interest in your nonprofit employer; it’s a good way to gauge their knowledge of your employer’s mission, and as well as their enthusiasm with your employer (vs. just wanting any work experience to put in their resume).

      Another is asking what they hope to take away from the experience, which gives you an idea of their expectations & goals – and, if you hire them, how you can best help them develop those skills to make the internship a rewarding experience.

    4. De Minimis*

      It can be tough with students.
      We do always ask about their goals in working for us, and we usually ask something about “What would you do during a slow period when you’ve ran out of work to do?” The only red flag would just be really terrible answers, maybe answers that make it seem like they might be difficult to work with or not responsive to training. I’ve never really had a red flag during a student interview, though I’ve had at least one student that was not a good hire to where I had to let them go.

      I’ve found that students tend to succeed more when they’ve worked in the past, but at the same time you don’t want to lock out people with limited work history. One big quality overall is interest in learning new things.

    5. Tuckerman*

      I just did several intern interviews yesterday. Make sure to include logistics questions (I see you’re currently working at Teapots Inc. Will you be able to schedule 20 hrs per week with us, sometime between 7am-7pm M-F?)
      I also ask what areas they think they may need training in, and what are their interests and strengths.
      With internships, you’re not expecting they come in with a real specific and refined skill set. In my opinion, it’s more important to find someone who seems willing to learn, pleasant to be around, and easy to supervise.

      1. De Minimis*

        Definitely check their availability. I had to pass on one candidate because we operate regular Mon-Fri 8-5 hours and he just didn’t have enough time available during the week. He had thought he could work for us on evenings/weekends, but we don’t do that.

    6. allthatremains*

      Thanks to everyone who shared suggestions here; I used some of them in my last interview for prospective summer interns. On to the next challenge, as this will be my first time formally supervising anyone!

  126. Liane*

    just a rant/gripe alert:
    I have been applying to Big Hospital in our city for a number of jobs in a couple areas. (This is fine at BH, they usually have multiple openings of the same thing in different departments & most hiring managers I have talked with there encourage you to apply again in their department if they don’t hire you for their current opening/s.)
    My Woe: up until a month ago, they had an ATS that was made in Heaven, at least for applicants. The *only* downside to it was the dreaded manadatory Salary At This Job boxes. Otherwise, amazing!
    -You could not only upload a resume but were encouraged to have a cover letter as first page. (When I added a [vague by AAM standards] letter, I really started getting interviews.)
    -It saved all your profile info. Some jobs would have additional questions but that’s all you’d have to redo.
    -There was a Job Cart (like on shopping websites) so you could apply to multiple jobs at once. (I only did it for same/similar titles)
    -There were filters for cities–BH is all over our state–parttime, PRN, and types of jobs so you could find what you wanted fast.
    ***
    The new ATS? All the things that this community hates about them. Well, the alerts are still timely and useful. Plus there’s other things I have never seen a complaint about on AAM:
    -ATS auto-populates many employment history fields–WRONGLY. Current Job would have dates from 2 jobs previous. Duties from Last Job would be located in the box for some other job in my resume. Most of the errors seemed to be that ATS cannot handle Resume Things that Alison says are standard. Like how you indicate 2 different positions at the same company. So it not only doesn’t save me time; it takes more time because I have to make sure I didn’t miss an auto-populate glitch as well as C&P from my resume.
    -My phone numbers in my profile somehow turned into strings of random numbers–and I only found out because I went in to update my email when Husband told me BH notifications were going to his email, which I never use. I fixed it fast enough I didn’t lose a call/interview. (I suppose I can’t blame BH’s ATS for a Chrome autofill glitch I missed.)
    -You can’t apply for several jobs at once, you must do them one by one.
    -Now many parts of the application profile have to be filled out every time, even if you just applied for another job 5 minutes ago. These are NOT the position-specific things like particular certifications or how many years experience with TPS reporting. It’s things like veteran status, if you or a relative hold state jobs/elective offices, etc. Nope, I didn’t become Lt. Governor in the last few minutes and yes, my husband is still a veteran.

    Why, why, WHY did they have to mess with near-perfection? Whine…
    No, it’s not stopping me from applying. After all, New ATS isn’t Taleo. That’s a positive, right?

    1. JulieBulie*

      I’d say that not being Taleo was a positive, except that it sounds just like Taleo!

  127. Katie Elderberry*

    Well, I lost my job about two weeks ago, the company closed and I haven’t received any pay for the last two weeks I worked. I also lost my health insurance as of May 1st. I applied for unemployment and food assistance from the state but haven’t received anything yet and it’s getting pretty tight. The really bad part is now my husband and I can’t afford our meds and we’re really feeling it. I’m bipolar and the swings are making the job hunt and interview process incredibly stressful. I’ve got some good leads but nothing’s going to happen overnight. Sorry for the complaints, I just really needed to vent. Thanks.

    1. fposte*

      Whoa, Katie, I’m sorry. Do notify your state’s DOL about the lack of pay, at least.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      See if your county has any sort of mental health resources. When I was out of work, I was able to reach out to an organization that provides meds. It was an odd experience for me because I was being proactive about making sure I didn’t have to stop taking them and they were used to working with people who were in acute distress. It confused them a fair amount, but they ultimately were able to help me.

    3. Beancounter Eric*

      Re. Meds….some of the pharma companies have assistance programs which might be helpful in your current situation.

    4. Amber Rose*

      I’m sorry. Try to take it easy on yourself, that’s a crappy situation. I hope it improves soon.

    5. Emily*

      About your medication, definitely look on the internet for your drug’s manufacturer. Most companies have “indigent programs” for people without insurance (I used one for years in my twenties).

      It usually just involves a form that your doctor has to help with, and it might ask for proof of low income/etc. They will typically give you a three-month supply and mail it to your doctor’s office for you to pick up.

      Good luck!

    6. Pwyll*

      I’m so sorry, Katie. Definitely contact your state Department of Labor, in some states there are specific ways in which business closures must be performed, and if not followed the state can hold the owners personally responsible to pay you.

    7. marmaladechainsaw*

      Wow, I’m sorry to hear that! It’s a tough situation.

      Before I got my current job and was out of work for 6 months, I had no insurance but had to keep taking my anti-depressants, and luckily I was able to go to a free local mental health clinic. They offered both therapists and psychiatrists that provided all appointments and medicine free of charge. I would definitely look into a similar place wherever you live. Hang in there!

    8. Tabby Baltimore*

      You might also consider Googling “prescription drug assistance for uninsured” + your state name to see if you qualify to get your meds at a steep discount. Also, I think Partnership for Prescription Assistance (pparx.org) is a legit outfit, and might also be able to help you out on the prescription front.

  128. Veronica*

    I work in the public sector — low salaries but great benefits, including lots of time off, which is great because I love to travel. I don’t have children and try to live frugally so I can spend my discretionary income on vacations. I took a cruise earlier this year, and I’m planning to take off four weeks later this year to rent a house on the beach. Other people in my office have taken sabbaticals, long leaves over summer vacation to spend time with their kids, etc. I cleared the time off with my boss and her supervisor a year in advance, and I was very intentional when planning my trip so it wouldn’t coincide with school vacations or the holidays, when everyone requests time off.

    But now that my time off is on the office calendar, my coworkers are making lots of snide remarks about my month-long vacation. I don’t talk about what I’m doing with my time off unless I’m asked, but apparently word has gotten around that I’m renting a house on the beach. Everyone wants to know how I can afford it, and all the “must be nice” comments are starting to irritate me. It’s not like I make more money than my coworkers. I just spend it differently! Now one coworker is demanding she be able to take off a month this summer, even though it’s my understanding she does not have enough PTO saved to do so. She’s complaining to anyone who will listen, “But management is letting Veronica do it!” So far I’ve been able to hold my tongue, but there’s a little part of me that wants to say, “Yes, and if you start planning now, maybe management will let you take off a month in summer 2018.” How can I deflect this unwanted attention?

    1. fposte*

      I think, assuming she’s saying this to you directly, you can actually nicely say your last comment. “If you’re interested, I’d be happy to show you how I budgeted through the year and how long it took me to save up the PTO; then you can do it in the future.”

      It sounds like the commentary might be making you feel a little defensive; I’d try to drop that. What you’re doing sounds really nice, it’s absolutely your right, and it’s also understandable that other people would like to do it. The answer to “Must be nice” is a sincere “It really is. I’m so glad that all that saving paid off and I’m healthy enough to enjoy things like this. I hope you enjoy your summer with Janette and Boblet, too.”

      1. Veronica*

        Good point, fposte. I’ll be the first to admit I’m feeling a bit defensive — a lot of folks here seem to think I pulled a fast one on management getting them to sign off on this, or I must have some unconventional arrangement to take off unpaid time. Nope. I’m not even blowing my PTO bank doing this — I’ll still have about 75 hours left when I get back from my vacation to use at the start of 2018.

        It probably doesn’t help that the coworker who wants to take off a month is also the one who also asks me about my sack lunch during our weekly meeting — “Doesn’t it get boring to eat the same food every day?” Not when I’m saving for a month of fabulous dinners out it doesn’t!

        1. Sadsack*

          Your last paragraph is exactly what you should say next time this coworker btungsbip your vacation or your lunch.

          1. Veronica*

            It’s so funny to me how some coworkers are genuinely impressed by my meal prep (it’s not the same meal every day, it’s actually the same five meals every other week — and I’m happy to share my recipes!) and how others will give me a laundry list of reasons why what I do would never work for them. Of course not. We’re all different!

            1. D.A.R.N.*

              Oh my gosh, your plan sounds fantastic to me and I’d be one of those coworkers asking for details. I love eating out for lunch, since it’s the only chance I get, but recent car trouble has made that unfeasible, at least for the next few months.

        2. CM*

          I think you could say that too! “Doesn’t it get boring?” “I think it’s worth it to save money on lunches so I can afford to take vacations.”

          1. Veronica*

            I sometimes feel bad, though, because that’s of course only part of the equation. The other part is I don’t have 1) kids or 2) student debt. I’m 31, and I’m reaping the benefit now of extreme frugality, but realistically it’s taken the 10 years since college to get to where I am.

            1. CM*

              I guess the real answer is that if your coworkers are the type who will comment on your life choices, you can use various strategies to respond, but all of them require some degree of suffering on your part.

    2. Tea*

      Your snarky mental response is actually pretty spot on– if you can polish off the sarcasm and make it sound upbeat and friendly, you could actually use it. Ex. “Don’t worry– if you start planning for 2018, I’m sure you could take a month off too.” People just want to complain; they don’t want to put in the work. If you focus on the work that needs to be done for you to enjoy the vacation on the sunny beaches, they invariably want to change topics. My go-to response for all “must be nice” snide comments, whether or not it’s actually true, is something like this:

      “Oh yes, I love to [travel, see the ocean, go skydiving, buy fifteen thousand dollar handbags in France]!” Said with a smile, and a sigh. “I’m so excited, I’ve spent the last year planning and saving for it!”

      Pepper any follow up comments with heavy emphasis on “planning” and “working so hard to save” and people will either genuinely want to know how you did it, or want to stop talking about it real quick.

      1. Veronica*

        In the beginning, I’d offer to share my menu planning tips or say something about how I’ve been able to save hours by offering to work holidays, but usually they wanted to tell me why that wouldn’t work for them. My standard response as of late has been to smile and say, “Yes, I’m very fortunate.”

        I’m just tired of the break room getting quiet when I walk in to heat up my lunch.

        1. D.A.R.N.*

          I sympathize! People want reasons to complain, then make excuses when they’re called on them rather than admit they shouldn’t be complaining!

    3. AndersonDarling*

      I’d be really casual about it, “I’ve been saving for a long, long time and I’ve been waiting years to take a vacation like this!”
      Frankly, I wouldn’t bat an eye about someone renting a place at the beach for a month. There are some really good deals, especially in the off season. I get pissed when executives flaunt their private boat vacations in the Caribbean that end at private islands.

    4. Uncivil Engineer*

      I’m in the same boat (gov work = lots of vacation in exchange for being paid well below market value) and I, too, find it irritating when my coworkers make snide comments as if they don’t have the same opportunities but make different choices.

      When I announced my second 1 week vacation in a three month period to my staff, one did scoff: “That must be nice!” While I wanted to remind him that I had been at work every single day for the 6 months prior to the first vacation, I just responded, “Yes, it is.” I wonder what he’ll say when I head to Europe for 3 weeks in September.

  129. SmartyBee*

    I’ve got a question that I emailed to Alison a few months ago, and since she hasn’t had the chance to get back to me on this, I figured I’d ask you all! (Plus, the situation has changed a little bit since I sent that email.)

    I have a co-worker (we’ll call her Sansa) who I’ve been pretty good work friends with for a few years now. We originally started out roughly on the same level, organization wise – I was part time staff, and she was full-time staff, but we did most of the same type of work, served on a lot of project committees together, and ended up becoming pretty good friends at the office. We’d take time each morning to chat about life and work before going on about our day – and while we didn’t hang out outside of work (she’s got young kids that take up most of her time), I still considered her a friend.

    Last summer, Sansa got promoted to assistant manager of our group – but we still interacted on the same level, despite her now being my direct supervisor. I ended up eventually dialing down the non-professional interactions a little because I wasn’t sure if it was appropriate to be friends with your direct supervisor. (That’s what I initially emailed Alison about.) She’s been increasingly busy since taking on the assistant manager role, so we interacted less at work, but were still pretty friendly. We’d still engage in silly banter occasionally, and we’d interact with each other on a less formal level for the most part than either of us did with our previous assistant manager.

    Due to reorganization in the overall company we work for, Sansa’s now the manager of our group. Our group’s numbers have shrunk to about a third of what they were before the reorganization – we’re now down to four full time staff members, and will probably be a rather close-knit group, given that the four of us have been working together for years.

    Here’s my question: Is it appropriate to keep up the same level of friendliness with Sansa, now that she’s the manager, or should I calm down on the typical silly banter and informality we usually have? As I mentioned, we’re likely to become more close-knit due to our smaller numbers, but I’m still not sure I should keep up being super-friendly with someone who’s now very much my boss, and not just a supervisor.

    1. Sadsack*

      I’d follow Sansa’s lead. I think it’s fine to have friendly banter with your boss, I do. But we don’t go off to lunch together or hang together outside the office. If you two are just occassionally having social conversations in passing in the office, there’s no problem.

      1. Emily*

        I agree with that. Personally I don’t see anything wrong with occasional silly banter. I think you can be friendly (to an extent) with a boss and still get your work done effectively.

  130. Grr*

    I’m really frustrated in my job, I work in the education sector, in logistics/events. I’m better than those in charge in seeing the big picture, the road ahead and what we need to do to plan for these things. I don’t have their educational expertise or seniority. Often my warnings are ignored and rather than brought to the table to discuss things, I’m told to do things, usually at the last minute, with no clear reason why I’d be doing them. Think putting on an event with no market idea of why we’d be putting on that event in a certain city, because they think that’s a good idea. (No analysis/no clear reasoning – just it needs doing – do it.)
    I’m really fed up of this, and bored rigid. On the other side our team is reliant on marketing who need someone – they’re not allowed to hire anybody new. I’m considering asking for a secondment in their department to help out and learn more. Anyone know how to approach?
    I would look/apply for other jobs but currently my on-paper experience is events and administration, both of which I don’t actively love right now.

  131. Career Stuck?*

    I finish the coursework for my BSBA with a double-concentration in August. I have been with my company for 5 years (6 if you count the first time I worked here), and I’ve been in my supervisory role for over 4 years. I’m trying to figure out how to advance, especially into one of the fields for my degree. I’m afraid to push for it, but not pushing for it can, of course, be debilitating to my career (and I have to wonder if this is why women can have difficulties advancing). I don’t necessarily want to leave my job; I like my coworkers and love certain perks, such as unlimited vacation. I’m also afraid that, in order to go to another company and enter this field (even though I do have related experience), I will be forced to take a step backwards, before moving up again. Any tips for pushing for more career opportunities?

    1. Undine*

      Have you talked to your boss about this at all? “I’ll be finishing my degree in August & I’d love to move into a role (or take on a project) that takes advantage of that. Do you know how that would work?”

  132. Super Duper Anon for This*

    I might be getting engaged soon, and then married in a quick ceremony for just me and my fiance. For tax and just general life purposes (wearing a ring, etc.) it seems unlikely and a little silly to hide it from my coworkers, but I’m sort of dreading questions about our upcoming marriage and post-marriage plans, because I’m a woman and my soon-to-be fiance is also a woman, and there’s a lot of complicated family background and we’re both bracing for Massive Family Drama + possible disinheritance as a result.

    I also work in a conservative industry with a lot of conservative clients, and I don’t know if I ought to just say it outright if people ask, “Oh yes, me and my wife got married three months ago,” or be evasive, or lie about my “husband” or what.

    Tempting as it is for me to respond to a semi disapproving, “well, what does your family think?” with “Well, it’s a fifty fifty change whether I get disowned, but for my fiance it’s almost a definite yes, so we’ll figure out our family life after all that happens :),” it isn’t exactly an appropriate response either.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I definitely wouldn’t outright lie.

      But if you can play the pronoun game. “My spouse and I did X. They are really interested in Y. ” It might make things a little easier with your conservative folks even if they figure out what you’re doing.

      1. Super Duper*

        I’m thinking I might go with that– I already mostly talk to people about their “spouses” rather than husbands and wives, so it won’t be that big of a change. I don’t know if this is something I should discuss with my boss or let him dictate to me how I should respond… but since it might impact the firm (offended clients, possible complaints), maybe I ought to.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          I’ve never been in a position where I couldn’t be open at work, but I feel like if you try to talk to your boss about it, you may end up making it a bigger deal than it needs to be. Honestly, I think if you just play it low key, it shouldn’t be an issue.

          Good luck and congrats, btw!

    2. ByLetters*

      As a woman married to another woman (high five!), I’ve always been kind of — quiet, I guess? I never bring it up on my own, and I’m very very low key about it, and private about most of my life in general. Usually, if it comes up and people ask about my husband, I just start off my response with “Oh, my wife .. etc.” For me, I just make it sound so normal that if they react badly it looks weird on their part.

      I would never never bring up family drama issues — to me personally that would not ever be something I’d want to share with clients or coworkers, whether it had anything to do with me being a lesbian or not! Fortunately I’ve never been asked that particular question (not that I haven’t been asked gross questions), but I’d probably respond along the lines of, “Oh, we’re pretty low key people! Our ceremony’s just going to be the two of us. Certainly makes it easy to keep track of the guest list!” Like their question had been about something else entirely.

      As someone who lives in the bible belt, I’ve actually been really surprised at the majority of the responses I’ve gotten, even from unlikely sources. Before when people knew I was dating another woman, one out of every ten questions would be REALLY inappropriate (how can you have sex if you’re both women, is your girlfriend attractive, etc) — even in a business environment. When we became engaged and then married, it’s like a switch had been flipped. Suddenly I was FASCINATING to everyone, especially older folk. Not in a malicious way, either! People wanted to know what we wore (2 dresses? 2 tuxes? 1 dress and 1 tux?), how the ceremony went, where it was held, did we have religious aspects to it, WHY did we have a ceremony, how does the law work now, etc.

      I think part of it is that due to where I live, I am often the very first married lesbian that a lot of these folk have ever met, and I’m what some of my friends jokingly refer to as a “stealth gay” — I’m pretty femme, and I don’t set off anyone’s radar off the bat. Which I guess also makes me not very threatening. So I kind of become representative of this thing that they don’t know anything about.

      So I guess in short my advice is don’t worry too much, you don’t have to share what you don’t want to share. If you want to keep things gender neutral in your language, I would do that over referring to your “husband,” and if you DO want to mention that you have a wife, do it as casually as possible, with no blame whatsoever when you correct them. Then if they ask something you don’t want to answer, respond with variations of changing the subject and “Wow, that’s really rude. If this is making you uncomfortable, can we talk about something else?”

      AND CONGRATS!! :) It’s a wonderful feeling. I was so, so terrified of getting married (not of BEING married — I had being the center of attention, so the ceremony was scary for me) but it was totally worth it.

      1. Super Duper*

        Thank you, ByLetters! I’m also kind of terrified of getting married, but also excited!! It’s reassuring hearing about how you handled it– and about how people, for the most part, don’t act weird and gross about it, and you don’t let them act weird and gross about it. I live in a fairly liberal area, but of course, there’s no accounting for individuals.

  133. Dot*

    Does anyone have advice with dealing with customers who just hate your organisation?

    I work in a government agency (outside of the US) that provides a specific type of financial aid and there are a lot of rules, hoops, etc. for the people who want it. My job is mostly to process applications (making decisions etc.) but a good chunk of it (up to 25% of my time during some times of the year) is in customer service. MOST people are pleasant and happy with my help but 10% are Very Not and there are a lot of negative attitudes to the whole org throughout the country.

    The number of issues I have with this job is growing but this feels like one of the few I can do something about myself. I have a hard time letting go of these unpleasant calls (I’m currently wanting to throw things, flip tables etc…) and they just push my most sensitive buttons (I’m highly competent and skilled in the areas I work on but there are a TONNE of areas I don’t work on, and can only give vague answers about — but it’s not uncommon for people to be all “every single person at your org is incompetent and you’ve actively built a system that is as hard as possible for people to deal with” when … no, truly, we do EVERYTHING to make it easier, but we can’t change the damn law. Also it’s impossible for any one person to know ALL THE THINGS because it’s an incredibly complex system, which is why we have specialists).

    So does anyone else work in an unpopular organisation/position and have to deal with people spewing their hate and frustration at you? How do you move on and keep it from affecting the next call/the rest of your work/your whole attitude to work?

    I’m starting to look for other jobs but this is my first job, I’ve only been here for a year and I feel very strongly about what we do (we truly do a lot of good) so I’d much rather get to a point where I can just deal. :/

    1. Pwyll*

      Not sure how it works where you are, but when I worked in government during a truly painful legal change, when people complained about the law we actually directed them to call their legislator. And if they had a particularized problem, we also directed them to the Governor’s constituent services line. “I understand your frustration and I’m trying my best to assist you, but the law requires us to operate this way. I can give you the phone number for the legislature, however, as this type of information may be helpful to them as they evaluate the law.”

      But sometimes it’s just a matter of reminding yourself that people can have valid frustrations even when you’re excelling at your job, and it’s nothing personal.

    2. New Guy*

      Try to truly listen to each complaint and see if you can help. Often if you just say “yes, it is a lot of paperwork, and I realize it seems redundant …” or “I know you need this to happen immediately, and we’ll do everything we can to streamline the process but it does take time,” they will realize you are trying to help and cut down on the negativity.

      Not that there won’t be a few who just complain no matter what, but maybe you can get that 10% down to a more manageable number.

  134. MichaelIL*

    Due to some family issues, I am looking to find a new job back where I grew up in the next month or two. I’m trying to figure out the best way to frame this, since I am sure (and with good reason) most employers are going to look to hire locally first. It’s a driveable distance (less than 3 hours) so getting back and forth for interviews isn’t an issue, but I would need a little planning. A friend suggested I use her local address when applying, but for some reason this feels dishonest to me. How have other people normally approached something like this?

    1. Pwyll*

      Why not use your parent’s address? In interviews it’s not all that strange to say, “I’m moving back to the area to be closer to family.”

  135. LizB*

    Minor sadness: I got promoted to a manager role a few months ago, and my team (who used to be my peers) met up for coffee yesterday without me. Which is totally 100% normal, it’s just the first time I’ve been aware of it happening, and I’m honestly a little sad that I can’t be work friends with them anymore. They’re awesome people.

    2. H.C.*

      I empathize with your sadness for losing your former peers/work friends, hopefully there’s a new crowd at the manager-level that’s just as friendly.

    3. Security SemiPro*

      Ooooh… I’ve done this.

      1) Having an awesome team is really, really great. I did a phone screen today where the candidate commented “you seem really proud of your team” and I am! There’s loads of joy there! You can’t be friends with your staff, but you can advocate for them and enjoy their work and that part is really great.

      2) Find some manager buddies right now. Go for coffee with them. They will keep you sane. And you will need them for advice and moral support when you can’t turn to your staff. If there isn’t a current coffee group, pick 2-3 managers near you and start handing out the invites.

  136. Roger*

    The meeting planner in our office is technologically challenged, and while I don’t report to her or work in the same department, I am responsible for providing some services and materials for the meetings she plans. I have suggested that when she needs something, she should either a) send me an email describing what she needs, the date she needs it, and the date of the meeting, or b) “invite” me to the meeting when she puts it on her Outlook calendar so I have a heads-up right away that she is going to need something. She says she is too busy to do either of these things, and instead she expects me to go through her files on the shared drive, find a Word document that uses to track her meetings and needs for the next six months to a year, and review it on a daily or twice-daily basis to see if anything has changed or if new needs have come up. Her manager is backing her up on this. Any suggestions?

    1. blatantlybianca*

      Such laziness, I’m rolling my eyes on your behalf. Her ask is unreasonable and time consuming and the fact that her manager is backing her up is crazy. Can you implement an online ticket system for her? Something super basic that funnels her requests to your email. I know companies like Zendesk and osTicket have email ticketing systems, maybe a good place to start is with IT to see how they manage tickets and see if its something you can repurpose?

    2. LizB*

      What does your manager say? Her expectation is a total waste of your time, and her manager backing her up is ridiculous.

      Some things you could suggest:
      She’s already taking the time to put her needs into a word doc. Why not do it in an email thread instead to kill two birds with one stone?
      She can set aside time once a week to send you an email with her needs.
      You can set aside time once a week (not daily or twice-daily, omg!) to look at her file on the shared drive, but you need a direct link to the file/a shortcut on your desktop, and if she needs things in a shorter timeframe she has to email you or not have those things.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        At a minimum, why not email you the word doc with anything new/changed highlighted in yellow?

        This system is nonsense, and you have my sympathies!

    3. Security SemiPro*

      This ‘system’ is bananas. Your managers are bonkers.

      If you have to live with it, is there any way to set up an alert for changes on the doc so it can tell you what gets added/changed rather than you having to go in and look all the time?

  137. Zaralynda*

    A coworker has been wearing sleigh bells into work (open cube farm). Just…. WHY?????

  138. HeyNonnyNonny*

    Just a quick PSA for managers and HR: If you request a self evaluation from your employees, please take the time to explain what that actually means/what it should include/if it’s a form/who they need to submit it to.

  139. AnonForThis*

    Hi all, I’m interviewing with an innovative company within the financial payments space. The role is really exciting and capitalizes on all my strengths (customer service, operations, marketing) and this is a company I could see myself staying with for a long time. I’ve been asked to prepare a presentation on an industry topic that includes a strategic roadmap for how to sell this to their customers. I’ve got an outline and starting to plug info into the presentation – curious to hear from the hive your experiences with presentation interviews and any recommendations/tips?

  140. Incognito*

    Really struggling with work stress and the drama. My manager is paranoid people are gunning for her job, and when she starts thinking that way she ratchets up the crazy and starts taking over everyone else’s tasks. She’s just started inviting herself to meetings attended or lead by her reports and just takes over so her own people can’t get a word in edgewise. She doesn’t normally go to these meetings and isn’t even on the invite lists.

    This happens pretty much like clockwork every spring, but she’s taken it to a new level of crazy. She trapped a couple of us in her office for 2.5 hours while she edited a document she doesn’t own and asking questions about things she should already know or used to know very well. It was surreal.

    She’s refused to give me resources to assist me with the things I have been asking assistance with for months. Instead she picks out the couple things that can’t be delegated and asks if someone can help, and I explain again no there isn’t anyone who can do that, but if I can get some help with these other things, I can finish the task that can’t really be delegated.

    I have repeatedly told her I can make my timelines only if new things aren’t piled on top of them. She keeps finding new assignments and booking multiple meetings about non-urgent sometimes ill defined things. I can’t tell if she’s 100% insane or there’s a more deliberate attempt to undermine me and set me up for failure.

    Time to ratchet the job search up about 5 notches. I am burnt out on the drama, and there are just several other reasons unrelated to my manager that already made leaving an appealing option. I am done. I really just want to give notice now, but obviously not a smart move.

  141. Workplace Worrier*

    Would it be very unprofessional to quit a job because it starts at 8am? I am not a morning person and my last job was a weird flexible situation where I was spoiled with coming in at 10:30. So I used to wake up at 8am. Now I need to leave my house by 7:40 and it’s not happening. The best I can do is leave at 8 so I have been late to work everyday. No one seems to know or care or has said anything to me (maybe because I stay late and have never taken lunch). I’m so tired and hate the schedule and I’ve already asked around and have been told they do not adjust the hours for anyone. So asking for a 9am start in not an option. It’s basically the only Con about this job but it’s been brutal and I have not adjusted after 5 months. I’m embarrassed to tell them this is the only reason I’m leaving. I’m embarrassed by all of this but I can’t seem to change my internal clock.

    1. ByLetters*

      It depends on your industry, but most of the places I’ve worked would have been a bit taken aback by that, yeah.

    2. T3k*

      I’m actually kind of curious why nobody has said anything about you being 20-30 mins. late (assuming) each day, but when asked, they say the hours are inflexible. Perhaps go to your manager about this, saying something about how you really love the job but your internal clock has refused to budge, making you late everyday (but nobody has reprimanded you for) and if there’s something that can be done. But of course, be prepared for the worse that you may have to leave this job.

      1. Workplace Worrier*

        He knows I stay late and I have never taken the hour lunch, I don’t even mean I eat at my desk, I just work straight through 8:20ish-5:30ish. So they’re getting more from me than the 8-5 with an hour lunch bunch. But I’m also the only exempt person so the lunch is required for everyone else.

    3. Bea W*

      I have this issue with my internal clock. I’d probably have to look for another job. It’s really a health issue and not a matter of professionalism or will power or just trying to adjust your internal clock. Many people can adjust, but some really just can’t. Their bodies don’t work that way.

      Have you talked to your manager at all yet or just to other people?

      1. Workplace Worrier*

        I’ve only joked around about it. He’s accommodated me in other ways and I’ve joked “now what can we do about this 8am nonsense?!” He looked like he thought for a minute but ultimately didn’t say anything so I never brought it up again.

        1. Colette*

          I’d seriously bring it up. You’re thinking about leaving over it, when he might actually be able to make an exception for you.

          1. Bea W*

            The worst he can say is “no”, but then you’ll have the answer you need to make a decision going forward.

    4. Zathras*

      I think it would be weird if you suddenly stood up from your desk, shouted “I QUIT, 8am is too f***ing early,” and stormed out. I don’t think it would be weird to start looking for a new job with more start time flexibility if this is not something you can change about your job or yourself AND it’s a big deal.

      I think it’s unfortunate that we have this cultural idea that getting up early is somehow morally superior, when really it’s all about how you’re wired and it would be better for everyone to just wake up when their body was ready to wake up.

      It depends on your boss, but getting everything out in the open might be a good idea, especially if your asking around about the start time didn’t include your boss. “Boss, to be honest I’m really struggling with the 8am start time. Many days I don’t quite make it, although I always make sure to put in at least a full work day. So far it it doesn’t seemed to have caused any issues as long as I’m here by X time, but since no one has said anything I don’t have a good sense of how big a deal this is. What are your thoughts?”

      Maybe the fact that you are always late is not ideal, but is a minor flaw your boss can live with because you otherwise do great work.

      1. Workplace Worrier*

        Thank you, I expected Suck It up Buttercup replies but I appreciate the understanding.

    5. Anxa*

      If you’re in the US I understand now might be a scary time to look into any medical issues, but there are people with ADA accommodations for DSPS.

      I wouldn’t pursue any healthcare for sleep related issues myself (too much risk, too little reward), but if you’re considering quitting a job that start at 8am, it may be worth looking into your long-term job search and health strategies.

    6. Melody Pond*

      I know you didn’t ask for advice on changing your internal clock, but this is SO similar to me and my experience with early morning work, that I had to chime in. If the issue is more that you don’t want to change your internal clock, I can completely understand that. But if that’s not the case…

      I’m the same way with my internal clock – to the point that I eventually saw a sleep doctor about it, and they gave me the following routine to shift my internal clock and correct my “delayed sleep phase disorder”:
      – No screens (phones, laptops, tablets, TVs) for at least 1 hour before bed
      – Ideally, spend that 1 hour before bed in the lowest, most “red” or “yellow” light you can manage
      – Wake up at the same time every day, even on the weekends, and first thing when you get out of bed, sit next to one of those crazy bright “happy” lights for 15 minutes – I think it needs to be at least 15,000 lumens?
      – Only use your bed for sleeping; don’t be on any electronic devices in bed, and don’t “hang out” on your bed, in any way, while awake
      – Avoid sugar and alcohol within 4 hours of bed time (I know, this one’s terrible… I don’t always stick to it)
      – If you can’t fall asleep after 30 minutes, get up and read something boring (like a textbook) in the lowest, yellow-ish light possible until you get sleepy again
      – If you can’t fall asleep early enough, still get up on time and use the bright light

      After over a year of sticking to these points pretty rigidly, I’m now able to fall asleep on time and generally I can wake up in time for a 7:30 or 8 AM start time for work. I’ve been able to relax on some of them, as I’ve figured out which ones were the most important for my body to get into the right routine.

      1. Bea W*

        These are all things I’ve done and some I still do to keep my bedtime closer to midnight than say 2 AM, but I’ve found it doesn’t matter what time I get to bed, I feel like sluggish crap even physically ill getting up too early. It’s worst when it’s still dark. I sit under SAD lights in those instances but ugh. The earlier I have to be functional the more time I need to get out of bed and ready to go. 7-8 AM wake up time seems to be the line between feeling ill and not feeling ill. I also find the older I get the harder it is, and any shift of a day with an earlier wake time than usual disrupts my sleep for several days to a week. I really struggle with that when I have meetings that start at 7 or 8 am when my work day normally starts at 9 or 9:30. Waking up earlier has this odd effect of making it more difficult to go to bed earlier, and the end result is sleep deprivation the next day.

        When I do fall asleep before 11 pm I wake up a couple hours later and continue that pattern all night. If I go to bed after 11 pm I’m much more likely to sleep through the night and feel more rested. Vigorous physical exercise also helps, but I am not consistent about it.

        My siblings are also night owls despite years if early rising for family and work. We all have been naturally like this since we were kids. I’m convinced it’s genetic! I envy people who can shift their clocks much more easily and to confirm with the “early to rise” convention.

    7. JulieBulie*

      My internal clock turned out NOT to be changeable. I found a place where people come in any time from 6 am to 10 am.

      You don’t have to tell them that this is why you’re leaving if you don’t want to. But don’t stay there if it’s killing you.

    8. Chaordic One*

      I think it would be perfectly reasonable and acceptable to resign and to say something along the lines of that while you find the work interesting and your coworkers are fine, it just isn’t a good match for you. You don’t have to go into details.

  142. Kate*

    So I commented on an open thread a few weeks ago (late, so I doubt many people saw it) with concerns about interviewing with a manager who knew my dad (and being the one to bring it up).

    Last week I had a second interview with the full team, and I got an offer on Monday! I start the new job on the 24th and am super excited. Thanks to Alison & everyone who comments here; the resume/interview advice gave me the tips and confidence I needed to finally get out of my current job!

    Anyway, now I’m combating the grown-up-work version of senioritis. :)

  143. Cath in Canada*

    I had my annual performance evaluation a couple of weeks ago, and my boss mentioned that he really appreciates how I set up new processes and workflows and then follow them very consistently for long periods of time. He emphasized consistency as something that doesn’t usually get noticed, and said he really wanted to make a point of including it in my written evaluation. He mentioned the agendas I send him ahead of our weekly meetings as something that’s particularly useful (thank you Alison – that was straight from one of your posts!)

    So, what do I do the day before our very next meeting?

    You’ve guessed it, I forget to send the agenda for the first time in two years!

    Luckily, he knows I’ve been somewhat distracted by grant deadlines and getting ready to sell my house, and also thought it was pretty funny!

  144. anon24*

    Update to last week’s question. (For those of you who didn’t see it, it was about my husband who was offered a job by his old boss but is also trying to join the Coast Guard). Thank you to everyone who responded. You brought up such helpful points!

    My husband ended up doing what we were thinking about and told his old boss “jane” that he wanted the job but… etc. Jane’s response was pretty much “ok so when can you start?”. (YAY!!!) He gave his two weeks notice yesterday. His boss, “wakeen” threw a fit. After my husband went back to work Wakeen called him back into the office and demanded to know what his new salary would be. My husband refused to tell him. He then offered him a raise (that actually would have been higher than his new salary). The last employee that tried to quit was also offered a raise and a promotion. After he burned his bridge with his new job and agreed to stay, Wakeen refused to give him either. Knowing this, my husband told Wakeen thanks but no, I’m still leaving because it’s best for me. Later in the day he was in the middle of a project and Wakeen called him into the office again. He asked if he wouldn’t reconsider the offer to stay. My husband again told him no. Wakeen then told my husband to get out and that he was no longer needed. Apparently it was very upsetting to the other employees because my husband was escorted out and Wakeen refused to let anyone talk to him. Wakeen ordered one of my husband’s direct reports to finish my husband’s project and the direct report freaked out and wanted to know what was happening but he was told to shut up and go back to work.

    My husband was very upset to leave this way but I pointed out that it just shows how toxic the company is and at least he is out of there. He was told that it was nothing personal but it was better for the company this way. He thinks Wakeen just shot himself in the foot because the other employees are close to my husband and now know they may not be treated so well when they quit too. He also made sure that his termination notice states that he put his two weeks notice in, and the company will report his end date as 2 weeks from now so it will be clear in the future that he was not fired.

    Oh and he starts his new job Monday instead of in two weeks :) So no money lost for us :)

    1. Construction Safety*

      Awesome!

      And when the next employee to quit doesn’t give any notice, Wakeen will still be just as clueless.

  145. Construction Safety*

    Just a vent.

    Current company goes on site to repair tea pots, urns, grinders, kettles, etc. during annual shutdowns. It is blow-and-go / git-r-done work.

    I’m one year new to the company. I was hired becacuase I have a very particular set of skills. Skills which, while they apply to the company’s historical business model, are better suited for the next step our parent company has visioned for us. Our parent wants us to triple our volume in the next three years. We can’t do it by tripling our repair oriented work but we can get there by installing new pots, grinders, etc..

    One issue: the person (wearer of many, many hats) who previously covered my duties, only did the bare minimum to cover the regulatory requirements. A lot of procedures, forms, training, records and manuals had not been updated in years. It has been a very busy year, which seems to be transparent to my co- workers & superiors.

    Another issue is that management seems to treat the new work like a bigger version of the repair work. Things which are acceptable & work very well on a quick 7 day shut down, work against us on a 7 month project. I know this as most of my experience is in the longer duration work. They. Aren’t. Listening. To. Me. Things, ugly things, which I told them a month ago if we didn’t change our ways, are happening almost exactly as predicted.

    My partner asked me last night if I was ready to look for a new job. Probably.

  146. Voluntold Volunteer*

    How do you feel with a demotion of sorts when applying for new jobs?

    My husband works in retail. He’s been a store manager for the last several years and he is trying to get out of the industry (looking for a more 9 to 5 gig). His boss found out that he is job hunting through a co-worker who shared that info (my husband told this co-worker something in confidence and the co-worker told the boss). As a result, my husband’s boss decided to demote him to assistant manager. My husband’s metrics were great, has never been written up or disciplined – it really was a result of knowing that my husband wants to get out of retail.

    So my question is – on his current resume, it says he is a store manager. Obviously, he can change it assistant manager. Is it going to look bad that he was demoted? He doesn’t want to be dishonest (especially if a company does a reference check).

    1. KR*

      I think he could spin it as, “Until April, I was the store manager of Teapots Plus. My supervisor moved me to an assistant manager role when he learned I was job searching so he could more smoothly transition the new manager.” People step down from roles a lot. He might have been looking for less responsibility or relocated, ect.
      And then on the resume…
      Teapots Plus
      Asst. Store Manager April 2017 – present
      Store Manager Dec 2010- April 2017

      Also I think he should talk to his boss and be candid about the fact that he’s disappointed he was demoted for job searching, that this is motivating him to find a new job even more whereas before he would not have quit if he didn’t find a new job (assuming that’s the case) and if boss would serve as a reference now that he’s cemented the urgency of his job search (assuming he’s making less money). As a manager level person I feel like he might have more clout to speak candidly like this to his boss, but I’m not sure.

      1. Voluntold Volunteer*

        Thank you! The wording you used sounds perfect.

        About the money – the weird thing, he’s making almost exactly the same amount of money. He has less responsibility, but he’s a lot less stressed and seems a lot happier. And coincidentally, I got a pretty significant raise in my job this year, so it really hasn’t impacted our financial situation too much thankfully.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      If I was reading a resume, I wouldn’t automatically assume it was a disciplinary reason that caused the demotion. I would consider that there was a life change that caused the employee to scale back responsibilities, or that there was a shake up in corporate and a fancy pants store manager was brought in…
      I wouldn’t throw the resume out. I would still do a phone screen if everything else looked good and I would ask about it.

      1. Voluntold Volunteer*

        Thank you for saying this. This makes me (and him) feel more at ease.

  147. Agatha*

    I have no concrete evidence of this, but I’m relatively sure that my personality is impeding my career. I have been diagnosed with persistent depression disorder (basically low-grade, chronic depression) and generalized anxiety disorder. I’m in my late 30s and have developed coping mechanisms to function day-to-day. I’m currently in therapy and have been off and on for the past 15 years. My interactions with people at work tend to be relatively superficial and work related and while initially I think most people find me friendly, at some point they start to drift away. (This isn’t unique to my work situation, but I find I’m more sensitive to it at work) I’m relatively sure it’s either because I’m not opening up to others or giving them opportunities to open up to me or that there’s something in my demeanor that ends up turning them off.

    Either way, what typically happens is that all goes well for a couple of years at my job when I notice a turning away by colleagues, supervisors despite the fact that I haven’t changed my interactions with them. (This morning a colleague was getting off the elevator as I was getting on… I said hello. She looked at me and walked off the elevator without even a nod of her head – I have not had an argument with this person, in fact we don’t even have much overlap with our jobs). Such responses typically stir up my anxiety and then of course I get into a bit of a spiral until I catch myself or kick my own butt to stop obsessing over it.

    Either way, I’ve been at my job for 5 years with the same title and have been at the same title for over 10 years. This is a little abnormal. It’s not as though opportunities for promotion in my industry isn’t possible. But everytime an opportunity presents itself, it suddenly evades me. I’ve tried to ask supervisors for feedback on things I could do better, but haven’t received constructive feedback. I’m either doing fine or overreacting.

    It affects my self esteem to the point where I don’t pursue opportunities anymore and I’m just trying to get my job done on a day-to-day basis. I’m not sure I have a question here, except I’m not sure how to fix this! My therapist and I are working on my trust issues. It’s a tricky one and I’m not being particularly good at being proactive about stepping outside the door. Especially at work where the risks are greater. I guess I just need some help, advice, sympathy. Thanks for listening.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Man, this sounds like my deepest, darkest fear. Aside from working with your therapist to keep working on how you can improve your interactions with others, I honestly don’t know what you can do. I’m on a long-term job search myself and have similar fears that something subtle about my personality has been nuking my chances at the interview stage. I try and remind myself that all sorts of people – mentally ill or not – get jobs and promotions and basically succeed in life.

    3. Fleeb*

      I think some of this could be the way you’re interpreting interactions. When I’m really depressed (I suffer from it to and take medication), I see the world as a very hostile place. Could that be part of what’s happening?

      I also think that depression doesn’t allow you to see certain opportunities or makes you feel like you don’t deserve them, which can lead to self-sabotage. I’m glad you’re in therapy, because working through those issues is really going to help you.

      1. Mandy*

        Agree with this. I would also say that in my case, therapy helps some, it a little medicine goes a loooonnnnggggg way.

    4. EA*

      I don’t have much help either, but I did have a thought. Unless you have more than one example, I wouldn’t assume people are drifting away. Most people are INCREDIBLY self-absorbed, I have GAD, and it has been shocking how much the average person doesn’t think about how things affect others. You think about things alot, as a function of anxiety, most people do not.

      I would assume not moving up is more of a function of not pursuing opportunities than it is related to your personality. I also think that trying to take 10 minutes a day to talk to coworkers and build relationships could help, ask people about themselves. Again, you probably don’t want to talk about yourself, but most others do.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      This could be way far away from your situation, but we are currently working on my husband’s interactions at work. He has anxiety issues and when he gets frustrated, he gets FRUSTRATED. It makes him sound mad at everyone and everything and it is a major turn off to co-workers. He starts a job and then everything goes sour after a few months, he gets more anxious which causes more frustrations…

    6. Agatha*

      Thank you everyone for your support! I’m working with my therapist on changing my perspective, there’s definitely truth to the idea that I put too much stock in the worst outcomes or possibilities, rather than focusing on the actuality. There’s also the issue that I seek out validation from others because I suffer from a chronic case of Imposter syndrome. (Though I’ve had a few hideous jobs that made me feel like I wasn’t an imposter and I just suck). Anyway, I have done medication in the past. I’ve never gotten the relief that others have felt, sadly… at best just a slight lightening of the load. I’ve tried a few in the past, but maybe I’m due for another round.

      I really appreciated the suggestion of taking 10 minutes to ask folks about how they are/what they’re doing. Because I’m such an anxious person, I do tend to focus on myself too much. (How I can impress people, make them laugh, make them think I’m smart)… so this exercise might help me stop being so darn self-absorbed.

      Many thanks to you all!

  148. Fleeb*

    Hi everyone! Has anyone successfully extricated themselves from a toxic work environment? If so, what did you say during interviews?

    My dilemma is that I’m looking after being in my current role for 6 months, so potential employers are going to want to know why I’m jumping ship so quickly. I’ve had two interviews and have attempted the “it’s not a good cultural fit,” but I get the sense that people aren’t buying it. I have also tried, “I want to be somewhere where I can work and grow long-term, and I can’t do that at my current company,” but that prompted many follow up questions.

    If I had to be honest, I would tell them that my boss (the CEO) slams things around, curses at people, name calls and threatens to fire people whenever he’s angry, but that’s not really something I want to get into during an interview, and being tactful and discreet are qualities that I’d like to demonstrate to a potential employer. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    1. AndersonDarling*

      Actually, that is exactly what I told prospective employers when I was job searching. I started off trying to do the “cultural fit” or some other vague excuse, but I think they knew I was hiding something. Then I told an interviewer the truth. “I have a boss that is volatile. He has a terrible temper to the point that he will throw objects at his staff and berate them until they cry. I want to be honest about the reason I am leaving because I don’t want to end up in the same kind of environment again.”
      I know people say that you shouldn’t say bad things about your employer, but the first time I was honest, I got an interview and I eventually got the job. I think the difference is that I was using exact examples instead of “My boss is a big jery McJerkface and I hate him.”

    2. JulieBulie*

      “I don’t see much of a future there for me. There doesn’t seem to be any opportunity for getting new experience or developing myself professionally.”

  149. KR*

    429 emails in my inbox, 32 unread the rest I need to sort and determine importance. Office gods, save me.

    Also, at the end of my first real week in the office I feel not so overwhelmed. I have a ton of questions and I would feel super self conscious about it if everyone hadn’t been telling me to ask lots of questions and don’t hesitate.

  150. RPhillip*

    My company just came out today with the summer dress code which extends casual Fridays to casual every day through Labor Day. This included a reminder that tee shirts and flip flops are not allowed on casual days. We’re in Florida, so we always end up with heated discussions about flip flops vs. sandals, etc. And tees have mostly been ok as long as they aren’t obviously logo/advertising/profane. We allow, or pretend not to notice, sports team tees and stuff like that.
    Today I happen to be wearing a navy blue tee shirt with flip flops and stars as part of the tee’s design. I keep begging management to send me home. They just laugh and tell me to go do some work.
    :)

  151. MegaMoose, Esq.*

    Not much progress on the networking campaign this week, but I have applied for a couple of jobs this week: one at a boutique and the other a specialist role at a big law firm. Which raises a twist question on etiquette I haven’t been able to google very well: say I have a law school classmate or former co-clerk who works at a firm I’ve applied to. Should I contact her while the application is pending? If so, what’s my ask? Alternatively, say my spouse has a contact (who I don’t know) at one of these firms. Should he reach out, and again, what’s the ask here? It’s unlikely but not impossible that either of them are involved in the hiring.

    1. Pwyll*

      I think the ask is to “pick their brain” about the company. What’s it like to work here, can you tell me about the environment, what do you like the most and what challenges you? By making it more about your evaluating whether the firm is the right fit for you, it’s a lot more comfortable of a conversation for folks. It also takes the pressure off for those people to recommend you if you’re only asking for information to evaluate your own choices, and still leaves open the doorway for them to say, “Oh let me put a word in with the hiring manager” if they’re comfortable doing so, without it sounding like you’re pressuring them.

      1. CM*

        Yes, I’d reach out to your own contacts to explain that you applied and ask for background information about the firm. (I would only do this after getting an interview, otherwise you may be wasting their time.) I wouldn’t reach out to your spouse’s contact unless it’s a friend who he thinks would be happy to talk to you.

        1. CM*

          Also, if you talk to them after you have an interview, you can ask them about the people and group you talked to and get their impressions. You can get a lot of insight that way into how the group really operates.

      2. CatCat*

        A+

        I’ve had people contact me in this manner (people I don’t even know, but who know someone who knows me and that person makes the intro) and I was always happy to provide some insight.

  152. I'm Not Phyllis*

    I’m expecting a job offer next week (yay!) for a position that’s almost identical but pays quite a bit more (double yay!), so I’m not quite sure why I’m not excited. I wasn’t looking for anything new but this one sort of fell in my lap. I love my current job and I have the greatest boss, but to be blunt, I need to make more money. I’m barely making ends meet and turning this job down (assuming I get the offer I’m expecting) isn’t an option for that reason. But I love my job and I literally couldn’t leave at a worse time of year. What advice do you have for resigning under circumstances like these?

    1. Menacia*

      Could you possibly use it to leverage a higher salary where you are now, especially if you really don’t want to leave? If you get the job you could be honest with your boss that you’d like to stay but you can’t due to your salary being what it is.

      1. CM*

        Agreed. I think you can be open with your boss that you love your job but you just can’t make the salary work any longer and are prepared to take another offer.

    1. Camellia*

      Try some meditation. Just sit back and close your eyes and picture a forest with tall trees and sunshine beaming down into a lovely meadow that has a charming stream meandering through it. Imagine going over to the stream and looking down into it. Imagine how cool and refreshing it feels as you dip your hands into it, and how nice it is to look down into your manager’s face as you hold her under the water…

    2. Effie*

      I hated my last boss too and had no respect for her either. I’m sorry that’s happening to you.

    3. Anonymous for this*

      I don’t hate my boss, but I don’t have any respect for her either.

      The poor woman is dumber than a box of rocks and the only reason she was promoted to a supervisory position was because she had been at the company for 40 years. (I can’t believe that they didn’t let her go at some point in time before she actually became a supervisor.)

  154. Lissa*

    Has anyone ever been in such a toxic/weird work culture they found themselves doing really bizarre things themselves that seemed normal at the time? I was recently thinking about my old long-running job in a chain restaurant that was the most bad drama I’ve ever been around, and despite trying to stay out of it, hoo boy. One of the worst bits was that there was a supervisor “Hannah” who never did any work (also liked to scream at people among other delightful things), which meant the rest of us had to scramble all shift – however, her mother was the manager and she was doing drugs with the owner (..yeah) so she was basically untouchable, until the other owner got involved and tried to figure out a way to fire her. This ended up with me secretly tracking Hannah’s minutes worked, so like “start shift at 11 AM, arrived on the floor at 11:25, took break at 12:15, came back at 12:50, worked til 1:20, claimed emergency with dogs so left until 2”, stuff like that. At the time this seemed totally reasonable, but now I’m like…. that was messed up . . . (sadly this was just the tip of the iceberg of insanity at that place).

    1. Sadsack*

      I had a similar scenario years ago when I secretly tracked my manager’s time, then I and a couple of other coworkers would angrily discuss it amongst ourselves. Wow was that a bad time in my career. I hated this person so much, and I think I envisioned a day when I would march into the big boss’s office to show him how much time the manager was wasting. Of course, I knew I would never do it and it would not have been well-received if I had done it. It was just a fantasy. I stopped tracking after a while because I think it made me feel worse once I actually quantified her wasted time instead of just guessing.

    2. Beyond ANON for this*

      I was moved to a new site specifically to coach the plant manager. Who was my boss. So I reported to the plant manager on all things related to the plant. BUT I reported to the plant manager’s boss on all things related to the plant manager. SO he kept holding secret meetings and stuff so he could do the stuff I was supposed to be coaching him not to do. But I would find out. I walked into a meeting I wasn’t supposed to know about and he looked at me and went pasty white. He then said I called this meeting to tell you I will be talking to you one on one. Meeting adjourned.

  155. Sail On, Sailor*

    Just need to vent about my boss. I’ll blow up if I don’t post this somewhere: For God’s sake, don’t lecture me about why I’m doing something when the only reason I even have to do it is because of YOUR planning! I mean, seriously?!

    Now I’ll count to ten, take deep breaths, and reply to her email.

    1. Zathras*

      Amen. I write so many of those emails which are polite versions of BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME TO DO IT THAT WAY EVEN THOUGH I SAID IT WAS A BAD IDEA. You are not alone.

  156. AnonMarketer*

    This is going to veer in a bit uncomfortable territory, but here we go:

    I suffer from very crippling chronic depression (recently starting to lean into very vivid suicidal thoughts—I AM getting help for this, but it is an uphill struggle every day). Once something triggers it, I have a hard time getting out. Recently, my company did a reorg and my new supervisor began taking issue with my very blunt personality in giving people feedback (and then, in a roundabout way, called me a jerk and said no one wants to work with me). A lot of my arguments are made because I feel a lot of our project quality has degraded because my company has become seduced by profits and is happy simply meeting the status quo. I see our company and people capable of doing so much more than what we’re doing.

    Anyways, this has led to a lot of criticism of me, in general, and leaves me between a rock and a hard place because now I feel on the verge of losing my job. I just bought a house, so I need to keep this job until I can move into something else. For now, I’ve been trying to keep my head down and just do whatever anyone asks of me without much debate while actively looking for something new, but with my depression levels at an all-time high, I’ve been having a hard time keeping it together at work. Every time I go to the bathroom on break or get in the car to go home, I just burst into tears. This has come to a head and has made me start sobbing openly on the work room floor. I feel it’s not really conducive of me to go to my boss or HR and say “I’m struggling because I feel very beaten down and under appreciated and it feels like you don’t want me here any longer,” but I also can’t just go to work in tears more days than not. What’s the best way to handle this situation and keep myself composed?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Oof, that sounds rough. So ignore me if this is off-base, but it sounds like your supervisor might have been onto something, even if it sounds like it may have been delivered in a rough sort of way (or it wasn’t and that’s your depression brain filtering things). You seem to have a deep, philosophical issue with how your company is operating and, I assume, are not in the position to do anything about it. So is it possible to adjust your goals? Stop making arguments about things you can’t change, and focus on what you can? I know one of the more helpful pieces of advice I got early in my career is, whenever possible, to avoid offering criticism without also offering a solution, and if you can’t do the latter, consider if there’s any benefit to the criticism at all. In any case, this might all be off base, but good luck either way.

      1. AnonMarketer*

        No, you’re absolutely correct. My goal here was originally to move into a higher role, and while I have discussed this with my boss and HR and they gave me some goal points, they kind of forget outside of me saying I want to get people to work with me, I do want to develop my skills and move up. I’ve brought up concerns my company is good with planning internal strategies, but terrible at implementing them. I haven’t seen much improvement. So my goal at this point is to just lay low and keep my nose clean and not push back as much, but it makes me very, very upset and unhappy because I know we can be doing so much better and being so much more innovative.

    2. 574Girl*

      I am so sorry you are going through this. You say you are getting help, so I’ll do you the graciousness of assuming you are, but if you haven’t mentioned the suicidal thoughts to your therapist, please take care of yourself.

      I would speak to your doctor about medication. I know it gets a bad rap sometimes, but getting myself on anti-depressants was one of the smartest thing I could have done. I don’t know how I would have gotten through work without them. Once I felt capable of coping, I went off the meds and have managed to stay off for over a year, but for the year when I was at my lowest, those medications really really helped.

      I also am wondering, does your boss know you have depression? Once I told my supervisor what was going on, he went from perplexed to really happy to help me. He just hadn’t known what I was dealing with. I don’t remember the exact language I used, but it was not about my feelings. Work does not care about your feelings.

      I would use something like, “I’m going through some medical stuff right now and I am working on it as best as I can, but I just wanted to give you a heads up so you know that these crying jags aren’t normal for me and I am proactively trying to fix it.”

      After that, I think all you can do is work as hard as you can on yourself and on your work. Good luck! It does get better.

    3. Junior Dev*

      Are you seeing a therapist? Can that person give you strategies to communicate more effectively at work?

      I struggle with depression and anxiety and those things can leave me without the energy to communicate, so I sympathize. The number one thing that helps me is getting regular aerobic exercise. May or may not help for you, and it won’t “fix” your depression, but it often gives me the energy and clarity to pretend to be a functional member of society for the next couple days.

    4. Spoonie*

      You’re in a pretty tough position, and please continue getting help.

      I’m curious if your supervisor is the only one having problems with how you give feedback and is making suppositions for others or if she is taking comments from others and speaking on their behalf. I think a conversation might be beneficial — I’m not sure how your HR department is a good place to start or not though (my HR lady is super sweet and great at the advice; maybe your’s is similar?). Approaching your supervisor from the standpoint that you are trying your best to keep project quality at a particular metric might be the best route. If she has feedback on how you should deliver your changes, could she provide that in an actionable manner? What you’ve been given is basically just…not helpful.

      I know self care gets talked about a lot, but I think you definitely need to make some time for that. At work, I look at pictures of puppies/dogs from a local rescue for that quick 2 minute break so I don’t lose my sanity and rage-reply to an email. I’ll sometimes also message someone with a “today is bananas” type message. There are varying degrees of commiseration. Take the long way to the restroom instead of the direct route.

      1. AnonMarketer*

        Holy wow, I’m getting a lot of replies, so I’m going to try to reply where I can provide more context.
        These comments come from other people, and she’s speaking on their behalf. This is something that’s just come to light now after being at my job for over a year, so it’s a shock because no one informed of this in all my months working here.
        The way my company culture operates is a very touchy-feely place where everyone has to feel they are friends with every one else. It’s expected you’ll fit in a certain mold. My position straddles multiple departments, so I feel I don’t fit this mold at all. The way I give feedback is usually I’m given feedback, I push back on the feedback saying “I strongly disagree with this feedback because X,Y,Z,” and the response I’m given is “but the client wants it.” Which is very upsetting because sometimes what the client wants and what’s appropriate for the project is for two separate things.
        1:1’s started happening with my manager after it was brought to light that I was extremely bored and frustrated with my job, and while I was getting all my work done in the same amount of time as usual, my workload and essentially doubled + I had taken on new skills than when I had started. This opened up to conversations about how I’d like a higher pay grade to compensate for this, or some kind of career growth, which somehow turned into a conversation about my attitude (to be fair, I mentioned I realized I had an abrasive way of giving feedback and took four weeks to remove overly-negative words from my vocabulary [“I hate this”, etc.].–apparently feedback was I was still a jerk). HR sits on these meetings because my boss is not a good communicator either and they can become extremely combative between the two of us.
        When I brought up my concerns with the company, I was met with a couple of responses:
        a) “Your job is here whether you’re here or not.”, b) “No one has a set career path here,” c) “I don’t understand why you’re bored, you’re always busy; I can’t make new projects for you,” d) “You don’t have the time to pursue your goals, and e) “Would you rather a team player or put out work you’re proud of.”
        Since my last meeting, I’ve just stopped fighting at all, but I feel like it’s taking its toll on me. MegaMoose is correct that I have deep, philosophical issues with how my company operates now and I’m not in a position to do anything about it (I did speak with our COO, who understands my concerns, and we seem to be on a fairly even page), but it just feels like I’m digging a hole into “we’ll just be good enough” and “I’ll be stuck with this position forever.”

    5. Princess Carolyn*

      Is it possible to take some time off? That would be my first recommendation, but since you didn’t mention it I’m worried that you may already know that’s not an option.

      Beyond that, I think you need to work on reframing things in your head. When someone says something you interpret as critical, mentally disregard the personal part and dig through it and figure out what they’re actually asking of you. It may take some mental gymnastics, especially if someone really is being a jerk. The goal here is to build some space between your work and your feelings. You’ll have to be proactive about telling your brain what to do, if that makes any sense.

      And please continue to get treatment! This won’t last forever.

    6. CM*

      It seems like you’re really invested in making changes at work that nobody else wants to make, and that is negatively affecting how people see you. Could you focus on trying to treat your depression and try to care less about the company and the direction it’s taking? I don’t know if you’re more of a “live-to-work” person but maybe for a while you could be a “work-to-live” person — show up, do what they ask of you, try to have positive interactions with people, go home and don’t think about it.

      1. AnonMarketer*

        I like this idea, painful because I do love my company, but this seems realistic and probably closer to the self-care I’ll need to take care of myself. Thank you.

    7. JulieBulie*

      A few years ago, I worked in a place that was so dysfunctional, I nearly had a nervous breakdown. I have some mental health issues, but unfortunately they don’t yet make a pill that makes OTHER people stop acting crazy.

      I wish I could remember how or even when I got this particular epiphany, but it was:

      Don’t care more about things than the people who are being paid to care about them.

      I repeated this to myself multiple times every day, every time I needed to. Eventually, it stuck. And it helped a lot! It didn’t solve all of my problems, but it did take a lot of the weight off of my shoulders. I might sometimes bring a serious problem to the attention of someone who was supposed to be aware of it, but that was where my involvement ended unless I was invited to help solve the problem (a purely theoretical scenario which never actually happened).

      I don’t know if it will work for you. It’s very easy to tell someone to stop caring about something. But the reminder that it was someone else’s responsibility made it much easier to let it go.

      1. JulieBulie*

        And for what it’s worth, your criticisms of the company’s direction sound valid to me. Many companies operate the same way, with a short-term focus that will burn them out in the long term. However, the people who are responsible for running the company are doing it that way on purpose.

        If you want to be responsible for running a company a different way, you’ll need to start your own business. Better yet, I hope you find a company that values people who think the way you do, and then you won’t have to worry about the short-sighted way it’s run.

    8. Mandy*

      If FMLA is an option, take time off, get yourself healthy, and then go back. It really can change your perspective.

  157. Networking newbie*

    I am a graduate student and expect to defend in late summer/early fall. I have recently decided that my eventual career goal would be to work in a clinical diagnostic lab, which is not the typical goal for graduates from my program. I need to figure out my next career step ASAP so that I can apply. Is there a good way to reach out to the companies that do this type of work to ask what they would want to see on a resume for the type of job that I eventually hope to apply for? I don’t think that they would have any jobs that I could apply to now (although that would be fantastic). Rather, I want to find out what I can do now to be a good candidate two to five years down the road.

      1. Networking newbie*

        My current plan is to apply to a Laboratory Genetics and Genomics program, but I need to do a postdoc first to be competitive. I mainly want to know what type of skills I should be trying to gain through the postdoc position and also if there are other paths to my eventual goal.

        1. gwal*

          interesting question! I spent some time interested in the potential career path of diagnostic micro, and worked with the director of the university medical center lab to set up a month-long “internship” where I spent time volunteering in the lab and contributing to their QC. it improved my networking relationship with the director (who had previously known me only as a student from his class) and got me more familiar with the lab procedures of a diagnostic–rather than research–lab. I ended up changing my career trajectory pretty substantially a few months later due to unrelated factors, but had a great experience. are you perhaps in a position to try setting up a volunteer situation like that?

  158. Casuan*

    Yesterday I bought two items with a credit card & the receipt is literally 17 inches long:
    detailed transaction section: 6 inches
    Return/Exchange Policy: 5,5 inches
    “Tell us about your experience & enter for a chance to win” section: 5,5 inches.

    Whilst it can be handy to have the return policy readily available, usually I can pull it up online in the time it would take to pull the receipt. Arguably, if I used electronic receipts that might even be faster, although [for me personally] I don’t think e-receipts would save that much time.

    Do many people provide feedback, take these surveys &or “enter to win”?

    The question that justifies at least to me] this comment being in the Open Thread is this:
    Does anyone have direct knowledge of if these long receipts benefit the company in question? I assume that consumer responses actually do offset the expense for paper & ink; is this accurate?

    signed,
    She Who Has Too Many Unnecessarily Long Receipts
    [aka She Who Is Thankful That If This Is Her Most Frustrating Thing Just Now Then Her Day Really Isn’t That Bad]

    1. VroomVroom*

      Never. In fact I usually just ball up the receipt immediately, or tell them I don’t need it.

      I wonder what the odds are for winning those things? Like, do most people throw away so your odds are SUPER high of winning if you do fill it out?

    2. k*

      I do tend to fill them out, but nothing has ever come from them.

      My reasoning is that having worked in retail and customer service, I know that they tend to only get negative feedback and hear from the angry customers. I figure this is a way to throw some positive feedback out there. If by any chance the survey results get back to the local store management, it might brighten their day to know that a customer appreciated their work.

  159. Who is Fergus*

    I’m still pretty new to AAM and I have a meta-question: Who is Fergus?
    I noticed that a lot of times the questions to AAM are anonymised in some way, often with Game of Thrones characters like Sansa and Cersei, sometimes Jane and John Doe show up, but there also is a lot of Fergus and I think I’m missing a pop culture reference there. Can anyone enlighten me?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I may be wrong but I think it’s just a name Alison likes to use.

      You may also want to search the site for ‘the Wakeen story’ as that will come up!

    2. Antilles*

      >Fergus is just a random name AAM came up with. No reference there as far as I know.
      >Question askers anonymize their names with whatever they like. Game of Thrones and Friends seem to be the most common (presumably because they’re both so beloved), but people have used names from basically anything you can think of – video game characters, literature, movies, etc. I would assume if a question asker used names that were so ridiculous to be distracting (my colleague Batman was arguing with the big boss Mr. Freeze and our client Dr. Doom…), that Alison would change them, but idk.

      1. VroomVroom*

        Does Alison read Outlander books? Bc Fergus is a character in those books (the little french boy who begins in season/book 2) and I’ve always associated her use of Fergus with Outlander.

        1. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

          I think I have seen Alison mention the Outlander books before.

  160. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    I had an in-person interview scheduled Monday. Then a day later (after receiving the invite), the recruiter emailed me to say they filled Plum Position internally, so sorry, bye. UGH. Got my hopes up for nothing. It’s a super famous place, even if I’d take a 10% pay cut.
    I guess I don’t have to worry about that any more :S

    Also, around 2 pm today at my desk I started getting unusually sleepy, like want to sleep soundly, like. I’m awake and had coffee but nothing’s working. Any tips? Healthy snacks?

    1. Beyond ANON for this*

      Walk around in the sunshine for a few minutes? (provided you have some)

  161. Offer etiquette*

    I’ve been offered a new job, which is great, but I’m going to turn it down because I don’t think it’s the ideal fit for me and I can be a little choosy. (Also, the salary in the offer letter was 10% lower than what the hiring manager told me.)
    What’s the etiquette here on declining? Can I email HR and the hiring manager back by replying to HR’s email with the offer letter? Do I need to call them – and if so, which one? How much do I need to explain about why I’m declining, given that I think they’re expecting I’ll accept and I don’t want to burn bridges?

      1. JLK in the ATX*

        I decline a job this week, via email because I want there to be a paper trail for their records. I declined because they couldnt tell me what the work schedule would be, after emphasizing how important it was to me and my family so we could plan around it.

        My repsonse was, ‘Thank you very much for accommodating my questions and requests for clarification regarding the details of the position. I’m declining the offer. My decision is based on insufficient information regarding the work schedule, both in the days of the week and hours of work. I’ve enjoyed working with this company in the past, admire the mission, and look forward to future opportunities.’

        Always leave it on a positive note.

      2. Offer etiquette*

        It might be, but it’s ultimately not going to affect my decision either way. Sorry I wasn’t clearer on that – does knowing that change your advice?

        1. Offer etiquette*

          I asked. It’s not a mistake – it’s the bottom end of the range as opposed to the top.

  162. Junior Dev*

    Rant thread! What’s annoying you at work?

    I have to write code on the Crappy Legacy Site today. I don’t wanna.

    At least it’s almost the weekend.

    1. Pwyll*

      Work just cancelled our major project 2 days before its due date, tossing 100+ people’s last 6 months of work in the trash can. It’s pretty demoralizing, even though after receiving the rationale it actually was the right decision. Sigh.

    2. Allypopx*

      My boss is going back and forth on the type of relationship he wants me to have with his boss – from “no interaction unless I’m there” to “Here represent me at this really important meeting I can’t make it to with just you and Grandboss” to “You guys have worked together for awhile you can manage your own relationship” to “You guys communicating directly on this email thread I’ve been thoughtfully cc’d on makes me really uncomfortable”

      Grandboss was recently promoted from Boss’s level and we have worked together for a long time, fairly well. I also had a good relationship with OldGrandboss, but there were some clear boundaries. New Grandboss is much more free and open. I’m riding the waves of my boss’s preferences but it can make certain things very difficult to navigate. I stared at an email for 10 minutes today trying to decide if I should cc Grandboss on it because Boss wasn’t around for me to gauge his mood on the subject.

      1. CM*

        Inconsistent bosses are so hard to deal with! Especially when they don’t acknowledge their own inconsistency.

        I was proud of myself recently: when told I should do something differently, I typed an email saying, “But you just told me last week to do it this way!” and then deleted that and sent an email saying, “Thanks, I’ll do that.”

        1. Allypopx*

          I don’t know if it’s better or worse, but my boss is pretty aware he’s inconsistent. He just still really wants me to predict his needs and preferences. And he knows that’s unreasonable – but do your best anyway. Gah.

          I’ve gotten REAL GOOD at the gentle “Oh, I’m sorry, I thought this is what we discussed before, did I get my wires crossed somewhere?” that occasionally escalates to “You’re inconsistency is making it really difficult for me to get x done, I’m gonna do this, can we both be on board with that?” which typically is less gentle.

    3. Arts Manager*

      I’m currently waiting for another employee to show up that is 40 minutes late and “on her way.”

    4. animaniactoo*

      Struggling to keep myself out of BEC mode with a co-worker when there are significant issues with them and another co-worker who is all too willing to trash the other one and it becomes so easy to start venting, but continually pulling back because other co-worker gets into name-calling and the continued venting is not helping the situation.

      I made some steps in that direction a couple of days ago, but it’s active work because honestly… my boss is enabling the situation and I can’t say what I want to say to co-worker and am stuck at encouragement to address the situation more directly and explicitly with my boss. Before it blows up in all of our faces. Or bumbles along like this with repeated hamster wheel cycles for another 2 years.

    5. Sibley*

      A lot?

      1. Mgr is overwhelmed, and unable to provide necessary attention on a project I’m leading. It’s starting to make me look bad, because mgr isn’t available (I have a very good reputation here, so I’m ok). I understand WHY mgr is overwhelmed (serious family illness), I sympathize, but for god’s sake put another mgr on this project. You’re practically interchangeable anyway!
      2. For project in #1, I need to book travel. Need mgr’s input in order to do so – dates, people, etc. It’s been pushed back, again. See #1.
      3. I’ve got nothing else to work on, except planning for another project that will start soon, but it’s the SAME mgr. I hate this.
      4. Life in general is crazy right now. After today, I’m working 6 more days this month because of everything (sister’s graduation, buying house, moving, college reunion). My patience is worn thin, so little things are bugging me.

    6. D.A.R.N.*

      Rants! Yes!
      It’s really slow here at work, and while I’m happy for SOME downtime, this is way too much. I’m a receptionist, but half of the time, I get maybe one call a day. It’s way too slow, but I can’t do anything like play solitaire or read because (according to my manager) one of the higher-ups is a go-getter who doesn’t like it when people aren’t busy at work all the time… even though this is out of my hands. :T Bleh!

    7. Ramona Flowers*

      The aircon broke.

      I don’t mind the temperature. I mind everyone going on about it.

    8. Mike C.*

      I had to completely rebuild a project because someone gave me the wrong specs. >.<

    9. Not a Real Giraffe*

      1) Junior colleague made a big error that affected TPTB, but does not seem to care about either originally making the error or about taking any steps to urgently correct this error.

      2) Email threads where it takes upwards of fifteen back-and-forth exchanges to get a simple answer because someone is not actually reading the email.

    10. LCL*

      The simple spread sheet that is waiting for my data entry that was due on the 5th. Legacy program originally written in visual basic, big bucks paid to a software company to have it talk to another program, numbers available by direct electronic download from equipment without the intervention of my fat fingers, yet we continue doing this. I’ve pushed this to director level to get rid of this report and yet here I am. The function it is used for is extremely important, the source of the data is inefficient.

    11. Effie*

      I found out this week that while I am expected to cover for my higher-level coworker’s maternity leave, I will not be compensated accordingly*, nor will I get a change in title*. They say it will be a probation period for a possible promotion, but I am already doing the higher-level work. I’m doing it this week for a different coworker who decided to take the week off on Monday. I’ve been the default coverage person for all the higher-level coworkers in my department for the last year. Working on an exit plan now.

      *not even temporarily; I’d understand if when she came back from maternity leave they’d want me back in my old position. They also expected that I’d be glad to cover her leave instead of asking if I wanted to (I don’t, I agreed to because I thought I’d get compensated for it) and did not give me any info about compensation/etc for the last two months until I asked this week.

    12. anon24*

      My company keeps “updating” policies that mean everyone with my job title has significantly more work. I’ve been here a little more than a year and my workload has doubled but we still keep making the same low pay. And the company created software we work with also keeps getting company updated and every update causes more problems. It’s almost unusable. And my boss likes to yell at me for everything!

  163. Smiling*

    My company generally has a policy that any time off by salaried persons (even down to to the hour) has to compensated for by using vacation, unless there is an executively-approved reason for staying late and making up time. There essentially is a no-flex time, no make-up time policy.

    Of late, they are trying to be a bit more flexible and not docking salaried employees for time off because they realize that some of their days do go beyond 8 hours (although from experience this is rare with most people).

    We have three employees who are always the last ones in (they will sit in their vehicles outside of the office until 1 minute before opening time) and are always the first out the door (my window faces the street and I usually see them pulling out of the parking lot at 1 minute after closing). Asking them to stay even five minutes past closing time is always tough. Any last minute work from them is rushed and often inaccurate. In fact, they avoid doing any last minute work and find excuses to look busy about half hour before closing time. I am the office manager, not their direct manager, so performance issues are not mine to deal with, but I have been made aware of them.

    About a month ago, there was a major accident with a fatality that made all of them late for work. We did not deduct from their vacation and paid them regular salary. 3 1/2 weeks later, there was another accident that made all three late again, and automatically they were looking for the company to comp their time, which was denied.

    I don’t make the rules, just enforce them, but am in a position to make recommendations to the higher-ups. What is fair in these situations?

    1. Sibley*

      If I’m late to work due to traffic, I need to either use PTO or make the time up.

      More broadly: your policy of of no-flex time and no make-up time is, to me, draconian and smacks of lazy management. Life happens, and good employees will appreciate and deserve flexibility. If there are specific employees who abuse those policies, then management needs to address those issues on a one-on-one basis. It sounds like you have 3 people who have performance and attitude problems, and those issues are not being addressed. Do not punish everyone else because of a few bad apples. You’ll just drive the good people away.

      1. Smiling*

        For employees who go over and above, they have always been very flexible. For everyone else, the company is slowly becoming more flexible.

        I often argued against “you work overtime when we tell you to, but can only get comp time at our discretion” type of policy.

        My question was more about how to treat the the three when they are late due to circumstances beyond their control. It may also be worth noting that these three live the farthest from the office and have a commute of 30 minutes plus. Everyone else lives within 10-15 minutes of the office with no interstate or highway driving required.

    2. fposte*

      While I’m with Sibley in that it sounds like there’s an issue with these employees that needs to be addressed more directly, I also think this is reaping what you sow with a policy like this with exempt employees. If you dock them any time flexibility works to their advantage, why should they offer the company any after-5 flexibility? So I can’t really offer a “what is fair?” argument that isn’t “push back on this whole policy or else treat them as non-exempt.”

    3. writelhd*

      I agree that the policy of not allowing flexible timing down to the hour is going to cause this clock-watching behavior in some people who otherwise wouldn’t behave this way, because they’ve got no incentive not to. It sucks that you’ve advocated for this and got nowhere and now are stuck managing the people whose behavior results from a policy that encourages it.

      I suppose honesty? That you do see the unfairness and have worked to advocate for better flexibility, that there is some improvement afoot in this but right now these are the rules and you need them to be followed?

  164. Sarum*

    My boss is kind of a “have your cake and eat it” guy – doesn’t deal well with competing priorities. In the past I’ve tried being blunt and saying, “I won’t have time to do both A and B before the deadline, which one should I concentrate on?”, and he will answer that A is more important, but afterwards still expect B to be done as well. He is also not a great listener – will sit and listen to me talk, and then respond to what he thought I was going to say, rather than what I actually said – and his view of how things should be done seems to be based largely on his own instinct.

    But he means well, and I’d like to try to push him to address some of my work frustrations (though TBH I am job hunting). I have a meeting with him coming up – any suggestions on how to communicate more effectively with him and get some traction on my issues?

    1. Camellia*

      Hmm, not a great listener. How is he at email? I know I retain stuff better when I’ve read it rather than heard it. If you think that might work with him I would try that, keeping it to one subject at a time, short and sweet. And always respond to his response with a restatement so that is very clear, like this:

      You: Hi, Boss. I can’t do both A and B. Which do you prefer I work on?
      Boss: Work on A.
      You: Okay, I will work on A and will NOT work on B.

      1. Tabby Baltimore*

        And then, Sarum, you can follow up afterward by summarizing the conversation you just had with the boss, in an email, and sending it to him. With a read receipt, if necessary.

  165. D.A.R.N.*

    Does anyone here know of any stories of someone who got hired at a low position like a receptionist and then moved up in the rankings afterwards? Currently, I’m a temp receptionist on track to be hired, and I’d be happy to be in this position for a while, but I wonder if it’s a dead-end I’ll be forced to leave if/when I need to buy something big like a house.

    1. Allypopx*

      Our curator started as a receptionist.

      I think it depends on your organization and your skill set, and also timing to some extent. But apply for internal openings when they pop up!

    2. Sibley*

      A decent chunk of my company has done this. However, people have been here for decades, and the culture has been to promote & transfer from within when possible. You really need to get a sense of what the culture is where you’re working.

    3. VroomVroom*

      ME! I got hired as a marketing admin at a company (so a lot of receptionist type duties, but also marketing duties for the dept). Was doing way more than just an admin and hated my boss (was only female in department and he just did not know how to manage me, but bro’d out with my colleagues).
      I put in to transfer to another dept after 6 months, got accepted to do it, and then CEO took me aside and said he needed me to stay – my boss was being pushed out and he was hiring someone new and wanted me in the department because I was the best. I said not if I was an admin so – I got a promotion, raise, and even a direct report (bc we still needed an admin).

    4. H.C.*

      Agree with Allypopx that it depends on the org and apply for relevant interning openings as they get posted, but a common pathway from receptionist is admin assistant/coordinator, then possibly executive assistant or office/administrative manager after.

      Of course, that’s not to say you’ll be stuck on the admin track by working as a receptionist, but if you know for sure you don’t want to be an admin in the long run, definitely look for opportunities outside those roles.

    5. Mike C.*

      A great deal of our middle and upper management (even to the point of being CEO) started out as mechanics or engineers on the floor. But that sort of thing is really, really rare.

    6. TotesMaGoats*

      I was hired right out of college as an administrative assistant. Worked for 2 years and helped write the grant that got me my next role. 2 more years and moved to a new university at director level. Almost 10 years later, I’m an assistant dean.

    7. KatieKate*

      I have a coworker who moved from “admin” to “professional staff”. It depends on the company, but totally possible. Though I think she sometimes finds it odd to straddle both worlds, so that’s one thing to look at

    9. Rosamond*

      Where I work in higher ed, admin assistants can move directly into the upper echelons of administration (executive assistant, department administrator, etc.), and there are also lots of positions here that are a combination of admin work with stuff like outreach, communications, and development. I hired someone for an entry-level professional role who was a temp admin assistant. I also know someone who just moved from accounting for our foundation, to being a development officer.

      My dad was hired as an entry-level clerical worker by a huge transportation company, and retired as Director of Operations. But I think that extreme trajectory is less common these days (especially for someone who, like my dad, didn’t go to college).

    10. Elizabeth West*

      Definitely the culture, what the company does, and maybe the size of the company. In smaller companies, opportunities to move up may be limited even if they like to hire from within.

    11. Movement*

      I know someone who was hired by a retail store as a seasonal cart attendant (lowest grade position). By the time I met him, he had multiple promotions & become a store manager (& this was for a store with 6-8 assistant managers – so not a small store). He was likely going to be promoted to regional management as well.

    12. Susan*

      I work with a lead in our operations team who started at the company as a receptionist. I was actually watching a speech recently from someone who used to work at our company and she used him (not by name, but by description I knew it was him) as an example of finding talent where you might not expect it. She actually called him “the best networking engineer she’s ever worked with” and “a god”

  166. marmaladechainsaw*

    Not sure if anyone will reply to this, but ~~!

    I’ve had two interviews with a company (the second one being last Wednesday) and am waiting to hear back. They said they would let me know within 1-2 weeks, as they’re growing at a fast rate and want to hire ASAP. They said the next step was checking references (which I had already sent them).

    The thing is, none of my references have mentioned receiving a call yet (and one of them is my current co-worker who I talk to every day) so I’m starting to get a little worried, especially since it’s already been over a week. Do jobs sometimes not call references even if they say they’re going to? Does it mean they’re not interested in me? They did mention that they’re interviewing quite a few people (there are multiple positions open) so could it be they’re just running behind? I was feeling really good about how the interviews went, but now I’m not so sure I did as well as I thought! I’ve been feeling really bummed about it because this job is PERFECT and also I’m pretty miserable at my current job so I’m trying so hard to get out : /

    Opinions always appreciated (= Thanks everyone!

    1. k*

      I’d say don’t loose hope yet. I see there are a few things that could be going on:

      1. They haven’t gotten to it yet. It’s not uncommon for hiring time frames to change due to other things coming up. Unless they’re absolutely desperate to hire someone, calling references isn’t going to be their highest priority on the to-do list. Even if they are sticking to the time frame, we’re only just over 1 week out and they said 1-2 weeks. Maybe they’ll make the calls next week.
      2. They don’t really check references. Most of the jobs I’ve gotten never actually checked my references despite asking for them. It’s not a particularly smart move on their part, but it’s hardly unheard of.
      3. They decided to focus on other candidates and you’re out of the running. This option sucks, but it happens to everyone.

      I wouldn’t spend too much time worrying about it. If you weren’t so close to one of your references you may never know whether or not they’d been called. Wait until the two weeks has passed, and if you haven’t heard anything give them a quick follow up. I know that isn’t much comfort; waiting on things that are out of your hands is the worst part of job hunting. Best of luck!

      1. Anna Held*

        My job didn’t check any of my professional references listed on my resume, they checked with my personal references only. That was a surprise.

        And for those out there worrying, my boss was laid off from my previous job at the same time as I was, so I couldn’t reach him anymore. I would have had trouble getting any reference from that job — no one was left. I heard a couple times “no problem, we see that all the time”.

  167. Ramona Flowers*

    Oh my gosh, the mundane office changes thread has gone over 2,000 comments!

  168. Unemployed and (very) Pregnant*

    I’m 37 weeks pregnant with my second child and was just invited to an on-site interview (no phone screen). I believe I’m a strong candidate for this position based on my past positions and results. I’ve been rejected for a few jobs recently after the on-site and it’s hard to not think that my pregnancy had something to do with it.
    Has anyone interviewed visibly pregnant? Did you address it in the interview? If so, what did you say?

    1. VroomVroom*

      Also visibly pregnant but not unemployed – I think just address the elephant (haha pun not intended but if you’re anything like me you probably FEEL like the literal elephant in the room…) in the room by saying when you’d be available to begin work right off the bat.

      If an employer is hiring for something that they absolutely need someone in place by June 15th for a huge event or something (say the position is event coordinator for an event on June 15th) it wouldn’t be discrimination to not select you based on the fact that they might assume you’d be unavailable at that time.

      If you don’t intend to take a lot of time off after baby – in order to get as best of a job as possible – just say I’d be able to start by X date (maybe, 4 weeks after your due date at the earliest? So that if you go late…) but possibly earlier and I can let you know if it’s earlier.

  169. Vicky*

    at soon to be ex-job they just hired the first person they interviewed to replace me haha

  170. Allypopx*

    Apparently I’m an anomaly in that I worked retail or customer service in some form or another for most of my career and I don’t remember anyone ever saying any variation of “if it doesn’t scan it must be free” to me. I was just informed that’s very strange.

    That is all.

    1. Amber Rose*

      That is rare! But I think it depends on where you work. When I worked in Big Name Store that does not sell walls, I heard it every friggin day. When I worked at the hardware store, I don’t remember ever hearing it.

      But at the hardware store, my till would every so often throw up a “you have too much cash” error, so what I usually heard was “hurr hurr, I guess you’re the one we should rob,” which was actually less funny given that store also sells guns. :/

      1. Allypopx*

        THAT’S AWFUL.

        I’ve worked at one big specialty store and in customer service or visitor service positions at smaller organizations. Largely in tourism hubs with…eclectic, clientele. I saw my share of meme fodder at the big place, but not a lot of typical retail issues at the smaller places (coupons, promotions, returns, etc.).

        But that…is not funny.

        1. Amber Rose*

          I hated that message. The cash supervisor would take FOREVER to show up and remove the cash, so it would be throwing that message out every time I pushed a button for dozens of customers to see.

          It happened all the time too, because of people paying off their credit cards.

    2. Effie*

      I am also very lucky that I don’t remember getting the “it must be free” joke. I do remember once though during Christmas rush that my coworker asked me to look up the sku for an item that didn’t have a barcode and I told her she had to us the style # to do so and she couldn’t find the style # inside the item but I had a customer waiting on me so I couldn’t show her exactly how to do it either and her customers (an older man and a middle-aged women) were very belligerently announcing “Then it’s free!” with very straight faces. They straight up thought they were entitled to walk out with the shirt for free because there was a delay in finding the barcode/sku/price.

  171. VroomVroom*

    My maternity leave starts next week (in non work related, holy crap I have to give birth next week!) and I’m absolutely terrified that my boss will not miss me while I’m gone and maybe even wonder why he employs me.

    Though… My OOO has him as the first contact for general questions, and then has 10 topics below and contacts for if you have questions about those specific topics…. so it’s a lot all rolled into one job.

    But I’m just worried my boss won’t notice a real interruption in his day to day… Not that I want him to have a tough time, but I DO want him to miss me!

    1. Rincat*

      I had that same feeling when I went on mat leave, and left some very thorough documentation and did cross-training with a couple of people. And they missed me terribly! He will miss you in ways you can’t predict, it’s little stuff that you do that happens naturally during the course of a work day but then when it’s gone, it leaves a big hole.

      Also congrats on giving birth and you’ll do great! It’s weird and exhausting and wonderful!

  172. Amber Rose*

    Oh, the annoying argument has started again with the warm weather.

    My cube contains a door to the outside. It is right beside my desk. Our building is crappy and has terrible airflow, so it gets pretty hot even with the AC. Therefore, all doors are usually propped open. My desk is COVERED in papers. I do not want to open my door. There are a billion bees and flies in the bushes right outside. I am afraid of bees. Even more so, I don’t want to open my door. My last cube was by a door too but it was on the other side of the cube wall at least, so the wind wasn’t so bad, but the bees were hell for me.

    So far everyone is being passive aggressive about it (oh Amber aren’t you hot, don’t you want to open the door) so it’s easy to deflect (nope, I like being warm), but once we hit June I’m anticipating a battle.

    1. Allypopx*

      Could a screen door be installed to help with that? I can’t imagine anyone wants their space invaded by bees.

    2. Networking newbie*

      Can you offer to switch spaces with the loud complainers? You get to avoid the breeze and they get airflow. If they are unwilling to deal with it themselves, it deflates their argument a bit.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Our jobs aren’t portable enough for that. I had to take over this cube when I took over the job because there was just no practical way to move all the stuff in it, and I had to swap the computers because of all my special software.

  173. TheLazyB*

    I am so, so, so sick of the UK government’s 1% pay cap. It’s been in force since 2010 and doesn’t appear likely to go anytime soon. I have changed jobs once since it started and although I went from half time to full my hourly rate dropped.

    Hey ho.

    1. Caledonia*

      Yeah it sucks. I wouldn’t put a bet on for it to get any better either, sadly.
      I work in Higher Ed and we at least have the annual “let’s fight about getting a COL raise for several months and it turns out to be 1% and backdated from whenever they started negotiating said COL raise”. Every year!!

      1. TheLazyB*

        Ha. Yeah. Everywhere! Honestly just give the damn 1%. It sucks but at least it’s better than 0%.

        1. Ange*

          I really liked it last year when it was a 1% raise, AND a 1.4% increase in National Insurance payments, so despite getting a raise I was actually taking home less money.

  174. DressLikeAPro*

    I only wear knee-length skirts and dresses, and I was wondering if a dress like the comment below would be appropriate for a job interview with a blazer or suit jacket. It’s cotton so I’m wondering if it’s nice enough. I’ve read some past interview dress posts but hadn’t found my answer in those. Thanks for your input!

    2. fposte*

      While we wait for the link to come out of moderation–what field, what region of the country, and what level of employment? Those can all matter.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        Without knowing the answers to fposte above, this is a tough question to answer. I think it could be fine, but it also could be too casual. It’s just a matter of where you work and what field.

    3. Rincat*

      Full disclosure: I dress pretty minimally/androgynously so I don’t really like more feminine-leaning outfits for myself, though I can appreciate them on others

      I like the cut of that dress but I don’t like the big, bold stripes, they feel a bit too bold for an interview. Also I’m not sure a blazer or jacket would work well with the fullness of the skirt – it might be too much fabric/fullness and you’d get kind of lost in all that fabric. It is a nice dress that I think would be just fine for wearing to work, but it just feels a little too “party” for me for an interview.

    4. fposte*

      Oh, that is a cute dress! I’m with Rincat in thinking that a fuller skirt automatically makes a dress or skirt less formal and more social, even if you wear a blazer with it; I also think if you’re keeping it below the knee, that’s a tough length to wear a separate blazer with. So I think that’s more an after-you’ve-got-the-job dress.

      1. DressLikeAPro*

        I agree with you, mostly because you’re fposte, I’ve been reading your comments for a year and they’re always on point, and I’ll be darned if you’re not the VP to Alison’s CEO if not a full on moderator. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen a sheath dress that is below the knee? But I shouldn’t be wearing fuller skirts cuz they’re too much party and fabric so… what do I do?

        Also, does hosiery change the situation? I’m definitely cool with wearing tights and whatnot.

        1. fposte*

          I appreciate the kind words but if you saw how I dressed, you’d understand you should take my comments with a grain of salt :-). While you haven’t said in so many words, it sounds like you’re not comfortable with above-the-knee hemlines? If so then the length with a blazer is less of an issue, since you’d be wearing a jacket with something below the knee in any case, not just with this dress. I’d lean toward a blazer on the shorter side (not cropped, just not like boyfriend length); the skirt’s still a little fuller than I’d like, but if you’re keeping the neckline boatneck the stripe breaks up the black usefully as an alternative. I don’t know enough about what data analysts wear, but the Midwest gives you more wiggle room.

          In addition to Nordstrom (and Nordstrom Rack) and Ann Taylor, I would have a look at Amazon, especially if you’re a hard to find size in brick and mortar.

          In addition tl

          1. DressLikeAPro*

            Definitely not comfortable with above knee hemlines. I’d be fine with the neckline and sleeve length of this dress if I were just wearing it out anywhere, but as an interview piece I feel like it needs a blazer. Any of my outfit choices listed below in another comment would probably get the blazer just because it’s for an interview setting.

    5. Melody Pond*

      I actually think I might disagree with the replies above that I’ve read so far – I’m in the Pacific Northwest (specifically, Portland, OR) and our area tends towards more casual, in general. So, I would totally wear a dress like that to an interview, but definitely with a blazer, and maybe conservative black, low heels?

      1. Melody Pond*

        And actually, to be on the safe side, I might look for an actual suit jacket made out of more “suit-y” fabrics. Rather than a more casual looking, casual fabric blazer.

        1. DressLikeAPro*

          Where should I look for more suit-y fabrics? I feel like I have definitely outgrown my beloved Uniqlo $20 blazers but was worried about mismatching the skirt and whatnot.

          1. Melody Pond*

            I just meant go find an actual suit jacket, like that has pants or a skirt to go with it (but maybe the other pieces could be purchased separately). I don’t do a lot of shopping for new clothes lately, but I guess I’d start with… Nordstrom? Ann Taylor? And bring the dress with me when looking for a suit jacket. I know Nordstrom for-sure tends to sell their suit items as separates, so that, for example, if you wear a size 10 in jackets, you can still buy a size 8 in pants.

    6. DressLikeAPro*

      I’m going for a data analyst job in the Midwest in a giant company, trying to jump out of entry level. However, I’m having a networking meeting with people 3 rungs up the ladder from me but under VP level.

      I was thinking the white block lines took it out of LBD category and showed style/color similar to a man’s tie. Otherwise I’ve got a gray pinstriped pencil skirt or a full black and tan skirt with white collared shirt and black blazer, or a full length black concert dress. When I look for suit skirts at Loft or Ann Taylor websites the skirts are too short for me. And I just don’t want to feel underdressed for this, I’m nervous enough just thinking about how far down the ladder I am from those people!

    7. vpc*

      I’d wear it, especially if you’re willing to dress it up with hose and heels, and maybe pick a contrasting blazer – grey for ultra-conservative, teal or royal blue or something if not.

      Disclosure: I’m not in your field or in your region. I’m in government in the southeast, and I’d totally wear that dress with a bright blazer (and without hose, in the summer!) for an interview.

  175. TheLazyB*

    Your work week in AAM headlines​?
    Thanks again Ramona for starting this :)

    – I’m drowning in email!
    -too much work, not enough time: how to fit everything in
    -can I make a work friend into a friend-friend?

    1. Caledonia*

      – Help! My co-worker might now be toxic and I don’t want to get dragged into that
      – Last ever uni assignment due soon!

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Ah, thanks for bringing it back! Here goes…

      – Impossible sounding project has turned out to be kind of possible
      – It’s too hot, it’s too cold, it’s too hot, now it’s cold again and other temperature updates I don’t care about
      – Update: it’s too cold
      – Update: I still don’t care

    3. Rincat*

      – my former boss keeps asking me to do work even though I don’t report to him
      – oh look, another request from former boss
      – seriously dude, I don’t work for you

    5. Emi.*

      How to stop agonizing about emails, is it better to take notes on paper or on a computer, what to do while you’re waiting for performance reviews, and more

    6. H.C.*

      – Workweek has been great since micromanaging colleague went on vacation; how do we keep it that way when they return?

    7. LadyKelvin*

      -I need to finish writing up this paper to submit Wednesday and I JUST DON’T WANT TO
      – Holy handgrenade, working 40 hours a weeks is mentally draining me.
      -Subtitle: I’m slightly embarrassed at how little I did work during my PhD and how the heck did I finish so quickly?

    8. Rosamond*

      – My boss and my grandboss are giving me conflicting directives
      – Why can’t my co-workers leave their feelings at home?
      – Reply all rides again
      – My employee needs to learn the difference between wry humor and tiresome negativity

    9. tiny temping teapot*

      -how do i stop being bothered that everyone around me is incredibly unprofessional on a regular basis?

    10. Teapot Librarian*

      My boss is mad at me but I don’t think I did anything wrong; How do I get people to read their emails?

    12. vpc*

      – I’m BORED. How do I get my boss to understand I need more challenges to keep my day interesting?
      Update: I met with my boss and it went great! He’ll be adding some new projects to my portfolio in the next week or two.
      – Coworker just isn’t understanding the potential risks of a project he’s pushing heavily, involving changes to a legislation-mandated procedure. How can I convince him that we should check on whether it’s a) legal, b) desired by our stakeholders, and c) feasible, before wasting time on execution?
      – We had a guest speaker this week who was clearly a mismatch with the audience, but the boss wants to invite her back. How do I convince him we need to tread carefully?
      – When I’m bored at work I sit through professional development webinars. Anyone got good sources to recommend?

  176. Justme*

    I applied for the open job in my department, the one with a 30% pay raise over my current job.

  177. TheLazyB*

    This week I had a catch up meeting with a colleague and our great-great-great-grand-boss. Which got me thinking: what’s the highest family level from whether you are where someone would know who you are and what you do?

    I think my great-great-great-great-grand-boss would recognise me currently because he recently had an open door session in our office and I was the only one there for the first ten minutes(!). I hadn’t met him before that though. The level above that though is the chief exec and he doesn’t know me :)

    1. Rincat*

      My great grand boss knows me, but my team is not as layered as others in my division…I’m in IT, and my grand boss/director reports directly to the CIO, whereas most of the other teams have at least 3-4 layers between.

      1. KR*

        This happened at my last job, essentially. The nature of my job meant I worked with important higher-ups but I was much lower level in pay and responsibilities. Now, I have met and had lunch with my grand boss and met my great grand boss once. I’m in a satellite office, so it’s harder to get to know people past emails.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Mine is my great-great-grandboss, who is the CEO. We’re on smile and say hi terms. I sit near my great-grandboss’s office and know her pretty well.

    3. Teapot Librarian*

      Wow, have never worked somewhere with that many levels!! Our chief executive is my grandboss.

      1. TheLazyB*

        Amazingly there are two grades below me and others skipped between me and this guy. In my last job my grand boss was the CEO so this still feels weird!

    4. Red Reader*

      My great-grand-boss recognizes me as “the team lead who has awesome peacock hair.” On the one hand, she’s said it was awesome. On the other hand, it technically violates our dress code, so I’m not entirely positive that’s a good thing, hah. The only two times I’ve met her, one was a casual Friday and the other time I had my hair up because I was on an interview panel for our new training class.

    5. Honeybee*

      I work on two separate teams – one is my reporting structure and one is the division whose products I actually work on. In my own reporting structure I think I can go three levels up for solid knowledge of what I actually do. Four levels – my boss’s boss’s boss’s boss (so great-great-grand boss?) – would recognize me as a team member and maybe even who’s team I was on, but would not be able to describe what projects I worked on.

      In my division, it actually goes up pretty high because I’ve had the good fortune to work on some high-profile projects in the near past – so quite a few of the senior leadership are pretty familiar with my work. And I know that the head of the entire division (so…would be like 6 or 7 levels up at least) knows who I am, but that’s because he’s a nice guy who works in the same building and we’ve met several times. I’m also really easily recognizable – I’m a black woman with a very distinctive hair style in an industry in which black women are severely underrepresented.

  178. Solidus Pilcrow*

    Resume question : How do you list your past experience when the company changed around you? You know those deals where the company merges, gets bought out, spins off, what have you, and the name changes but you’re still at the same desk, with the same team, doing the same job. In particular, if you leave the new company less than a year after it changed names, how do you keep from looking like a job-hopper?

    This is what I could think of. What do you think?
    Do I need to mention when the name change happened?

    New Company Name (formerly Old Company Name) – Jan 2010 – Jun 2017
    * Accomplishments 2010 – 2017

    And related, if you know a past employer changed names after you left, do you keep it under the old name (because that’s what it was when you worked there) or list it with the new name and a “formerly Old Name” like above?

    This has probably been asked before, but my search-fu is weak :(

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I do the ‘formerly old name’ thing whether it happened at the time or later. I figure if it’s changed since, it’s a good idea to let them know the correct name so it checks out.

  179. Anonyforthis*

    Boss just said in a matter of fact kind of way if I wanted to attend a conference next week. Okay, this conference has been well known for months, and I would have to get registered, get a plane ticket, book a hotel, all so I could fly out on Sunday and be gone all next week..? Um, not. I’m looking forward to a boss free (actually two bosses!) week next week…tyvm!

  180. Fictional Butt*

    GUYS. My boss just handed me a cover letter to review and the applicant has this shaded block across the top of the page with her name in bold and our company name below it. My initial response was “wait, does she already work here?”

    Do not do this.

    1. H.C.*

      Wait, so does she already work there and is applying for internal promotion/transfer? or is it an aspiration thing (like the outdated “Objective” section of a resume)?

  181. Rincat*

    Petty revenge: I started a new job in a different division of my university 3 months ago, after spending 7 years in another department with the same boss. OldBoss is basically Michael Scott – desperate to be loved, says lots of awkward things, can’t/won’t manage – he was a major reason I left that job. He loves social media and brags about his Klout score and his blogs. He did respect the Facebook boundary and did not send any friend requests to me while I worked for him, but the first thing he said when I resigned was, “Oh good, I can friend you on Facebook now!”

    Fast forward to now and I got that Facebook request….and deleted it. It felt so good.

  182. Anon for this*

    We got a large payout (c. half a million dollars) for a case we’ve been working on for 5 years. My boss asked what I thought a fair distribution would be. I don’t know how to answer this question. Advice?

      1. Anon for this*

        My boss who owns the practice, me (an associate attorney), and our paralegal (boss’ daughter). Our paralegal did minimal work on this, and my boss billed about 100 hours more than me, but his rate is double mine.

        1. animaniactoo*

          Is 100 hours a pidly amount more or a lot more hours than you billed?

          Personally, I’d say that it sounds like you could make an argument here for 25 to 33 percent to yourself and 5 percent or so to the para, but more if the boss feels like she deserves more.

          1. Anon for this*

            My boss billed 673 hours, I billed 559, so a difference but not huge. We also haven’t gotten raises in 3 years waiting for this case to pay out, so I have to figure that in too.

            1. animaniactoo*

              It sounds to me like something in the 30% range makes sense, OR in the 25% range but with a raise that the rest helps to fund (and continues after the payout is spent)?

        2. Idea*

          50/45/10 Boss/you/paralegal the 50/40 may change depending on the total hours because 100 more than 100 means a lot more than 100 more than 500.

  183. Fishcakes*

    I have two questions!

    1) My boss has been asking me to secretly check and sometimes redo other people’s work. These colleagues all outrank me and eventually one is going to notice. What should I do? I told her I was uncomfortable with the secrecy and she told me not to worry about it. I trust her, but it still feels weird.

    2) Has anyone here made a jump into a programming career in mid-life? I’m learning Python and it’s pretty fun, but I don’t really know what opportunities are out there for people like me. All the programmers I know are young and have CS degrees.

    1. BadPlanning*

      Unfortunately, the trend has gone back to wanting regular CS type degrees. Pre-2000 bubble, companies were happy to hire smart people with a degree and train them for coding/etc.

      I have heard about some coding “boot camp” sort of classes. Where you dive into just coding and skip over some of the theory and computer architecture that you get in a regular CS type degree. I don’t know how well those are playing to businesses. I don’t personally know someone who has transitioned that way, but might be something to ponder.

  184. Tech Challenged*

    For meeting invites in Microsoft Outlook (2016, if it matters), I usually click accept –> do not send a response. This means I have accepted the meeting invite, but the organizer will not receive an email.. is this correct? The meeting organizer can pull up the meeting and see me as ‘accepted’..?

    I feel dumb asking this.

    1. Rincat*

      Correct, they will see you as accepted regardless of sending an email or not. I prefer it that way since I don’t like sending unnecessary emails.

      1. Tech Challenged*

        Yes! I accept without a response for things like town halls or all-employee meetings, which get sent to hundreds of people.

    3. animaniactoo*

      That’s exactly how it works.

      You’re not dumb for asking. Sometimes, the obvious and logical way that things should work has been hijacked by somebody who thought that it would be a cool benefit if it worked this other way instead…

      1. Tech Challenged*

        Thanks for the reassurance! I’m questioning myself because someone recently told me I hadn’t accepted a meeting invite.

        1. animaniactoo*

          Look on your calendar in Outlook – if you’ve accepted, it will show the time blocked out with the name of the event (you can double click it and it will bring up all the info).

          1. Tech Challenged*

            All meetings that I’ve been invited to will show up on my calendar regardless of whether I’ve accepted. They’re only removed when I decline.

    5. WG*

      If the organizer has access to your calendar, they will see the status of “busy” there, but if through their own calendar they use the tracking feature to see the status of all meeting invitees, your status will appear that you have not responded.

  185. Hillia*

    I work for a very large company. My department has been in a state of constant upheaval for the past year or two, with something like 3 reorgs in the last 2 years. I was operating as the only business/technical hybrid person on a technical team, so I was doing some low level project management along with report development and data analysis. My supervisor and all but one other person (who was also doing primarily report development) were recently moved to another, more technical team; I was left behind to report directly to my former grandboss. I’ve had two meetings with her now, and it’s clear that this recent move was dictated by the higher ups with very little consultation with my (new) boss and grandboss, so they have no idea what I’m supposed to be doing, what tasks are still relevant to our team, etc. It does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling, so I am frantically looking for another position.

    I live in a very rural area, and there is not much work, certainly not at the salary level I’m at, so realistically I need to stay with the same employer. This shouldn’t be too hard: It’s a very large company, so there are usually 100 or so telecommuting positions at any time that are generally suitable, with a few that I’m both qualified for and interested in.

    I currently have active applications for 2 positions open. Should I stop applying until those applications resolve one way or another, or should I continue to apply? The positions I’m looking at are all in the same general field but in different areas of the company, so it’s not as though I’m simultaneously applying for (say) accounting and lab techs. I was looking at a position today and considering it, but it’s being handled by the same recruiter that is handling one of my currently active applications, and I’m afraid I’ll look desperate (which, of course, I am). I’m kind of going around and around and afraid I’m not thinking clearly.

    1. Colette*

      As long as you’re reasonable qualified for those positions, I don’t see a reason to limit yourself. It doesn’t read desperate to me, just like you’re job hunting (which you are).

  186. Anxa*

    I have a job interview Monday!

    But, I’m not all that excited about it. In theory it’s a great opportunity because, well, it’s a job and I need more money. Also, it’s related to public health and there are about 10 possible pathways I can think of where this would be valuable, relevant experience.

    Buuuuuut.

    It’s seasonal. And it’s hiring at a much quicker cycle than literally every other job that hasn’t flat out rejected it that I’d much rather have. I have so much I want to review before this interview (most of my relevant training is almost 7 years old so I have a lot of memory jogging), but at the end of the day, I worry that I’m not a good candidate because:
    -I don’t have a smartphone and there will be a lot of driving around. I am worried there won’t be a chance to review the driving directions ahead of time (I like to review new routes before I drive. I got my license later in life).
    -I might have to drive a truck. I am not the most confident driver. No tickets or accidents, but again, I don’t really love driving and I’m kind of uptight about it.
    -I worry that the PPE won’t fit well or I’ll have to wear it over bare skin. That’s a no-go for me.
    -I think it’s one of those jobs with unpredictable hours, and I do really, really poorly in life when I have no control over my routine.
    -I think it’s one of those jobs that’s part-time but wants you to be available full-time, which is of course all too common and not that rare, but still annoying.
    -I’m out of shape.
    -There could be very early mornings. I’m not a morning person, but more importantly buses don’t run that early and I car share.
    -I’ll need to invest in some field clothes.
    -It’s seasonal, but doesn’t run the same seasons as semesters. So I won’t be able to resume my job search for a full-time job until Octoberish? Meanwhile, I’m not sure I’ll have time to volunteer somewhere this semester with two other part-time jobs as a bus commuter (closest university is over an hour away by transit, more local facility has fewer opportunities)

    So, I guess I’m just sort of worried that all the research and preparation won’t make up for not being a good fit anyway. I’m way overqualified in terms of experience and education, but not sure I have the proper skills or life situation for it. I’m worried that I’m taking the interview way too seriously or earnestly when what I really should be doing is modeling mock schedules or maps that would make my life work if this happens.

    1. gwal*

      hopefully they’ll have someone work with you to be sure the PPE fits properly and is comfortable! and good luck, hope it all works out :)

      1. Fictional Butt*

        Ooh, yes! I can’t believe I missed that part, because it’s my job to tell people this: if PPE doesn’t fit properly, it doesn’t work properly!

      2. Anxa*

        Yes! That part is so important!

        I’m not a particularly small woman, but I’m 5’5″ and under <130 lbs. I'm a bit fanatical about PPE, but even places that ostensibly care very much about it often don't have a lot of options for smaller sized people. Again, I'm not exactly short or skinny but I'm just small enough that I always feel like an imposition. I know, I KNOW that I shouldn't. But I still do. Like I'm a more expensive employee just because of my size which correlates with my gender and this will be a male-dominated position.

        I'm more worried about them only paying attention to chemical safety issues and standards with it, and I'm struggling with how to frame questions about what I can wear underneath without getting too personal (I've had several skin infections and I'm borderline germaphobic about this stuff. Also, I prefer natural fabrics whenever possible, even when most like synthetics, due to those sensitivities, and I don't want to sound like a princess or prima donna). I'm practicing my phrasing over this. Mostly, I just have all of these little things that I think makes me a difficult employee that it probably doesn't matter how much I know about the science and policy as a front-line worker.

    2. Fictional Butt*

      It sounds like you have a lot of uncertainties about what the job will entail, so maybe you should be making a list of questions to make sure you get all the information you need in the interview.

  187. beanie beans*

    I applied for a part time, lower-level job this week that I’m overqualified for. I wouldn’t mind the step down or even-the part-timeness since the company is more aligned with what I’m interested in compared to what I’m in now, which I tried to describe in my cover letter and I’m sure I’d need to further elaborate on. But it’s got me thinking.

    Do companies ever look at an overqualified candidate and say “Wow, this person is awesome, let’s slip them into a better position!”? My guess is that it’s unlikely, but just curious if it’s even a possibility.

    1. Rincat*

      I think they do! I have no idea of the frequency of that happening but it does happen. They will typically encourage you to apply for a higher level position that is open though…I think it’s more rare that they will just create a position.

      1. beanie beans*

        I’m feeling like I maybe should have been more patient and waited for a better opening, but that gives me hope that maybe I didn’t totally shoot myself in the foot… Thanks!

    2. Kiwi*

      Yeah, I’ve done that. An applicant wasn’t quite what I was looking for but looked like a great match for another department, so I passed his details onto them. They took him on and he’s been great.

  188. Ramona Flowers*

    Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to do one of the following:

    – Create quick steps in outlook using a key combination other than control+shift+number
    OR
    – Assign a custom shortcut so I can archive emails in Outlook 2013 using my own choice of two (not three) keys without installing anything extra

    I suspect the answer is no. I wonder if IT will let me install something like autohotkey.

  189. OneonOne*

    Does anyone have advice on how to have a difficult conversation with their boss?

    I have a one on one on Monday morning. My boss has not been pleased with my work lately and has asked if there is anything wrong. I have been going through some personal issues and struggles with depression and have shared this, but it was honestly a shock to me that it has affected my work to the point that it is noticeable (missed deadlines, lack of communication, etc.).

    Part of what makes this conversation difficult is that I am not sure I am in the right role. My position was a newly created one last July; I’ve been doing it almost a year now, but I do not enjoy it and I do not think I am cut out for it, in all honesty. It’s not difficult or taxing, but just free-form, lots of ambiguity, and no defined procedures or workflows. I feel I would be happier in a more conventional role at my company, which is large, and has identical roles across teams, enabling people to share best practices and get training in groups.

    In all honesty, I am worried that I might be asked to resign or to go on a PIP, but I am not sure how to deal with this in being honest about my doubts about my abilities to fulfill this role while also dealing with my own personal mental health. How honest should I be with my boss? I worry if I just come out and say “I don’t think this is the right position for me” then I will be dismissed. If I am tasked with choosing to resign vs. being fired, I would essentially be forgoing any unemployment benefits. For financial reasons, the loss of income would be devastating since I am trying to afford my rent and my therapy. However, I don’t see how I can respond if I am asked about what I think of my position, other than to say that I’m ill suited to it.

    1. animaniactoo*

      Can you talk about your struggles with certain aspects of the position and whether it would make more sense for you to move to a more conventional role within the company?

      Can you talk about your struggles with the lack of defined procedures and workflows and whether there’s a way to create some of that for yourself to give you a structure that you need to accomplish the job well in your opinion?

    2. Mandy*

      Is FMLA an option for you? You may still get the PIP, but if you take time to deal with your depression, you may find that you are better able to do the job. I speak from experience here.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Did you do something before this role and can you go back to your old role?

      Granted you may run the risk of losing this job, but I can’t see how this job is helping your personal life issues. I suspect it is making those issues worse in some ways.

      Is your boss a reasonable person? Maybe she can help you find a new path with a different position. I think what is good here is that you have identified the core issue, the lack of structure. Knowing this is a huge asset. If your boss seems fair minded, give her a chance to help you through this.

  190. animaniactoo*

    o m g – there is some serious hilarity scheduled for next week and I just got a preview. Don’t work with a bunch of creative people if you’re not prepared for ridiculous presentation boards and a rickroll featuring your co-workers’ faces pasted on top of the dancers’ in the video for your b’day.

  191. Parallelogram*

    My company and I are parting ways. Boss has offered a letter of recommendation but I would need to write it. Unusual, but that’s because it’s a very small co. which is part of the reason I’m going. What would you want to see in a letter of recommendation? FWIW, I’m the program manager and sole full-time employee.

    Thanks!

    1. animaniactoo*

      What your strengths are and what makes you a valuable employee – dependability? Ability to remain calm/lighten a mood in tough situations? Strategic thinking when faced with an issue? What outside your general job duties make you a welcome addition to a company?

  192. MsChanandlerBong*

    I posted last week or the week before about my fellow volunteer showing up late/not showing up, which was making it difficult for me to plan my schedule. The way the program works, if my replacement doesn’t show up, I can’t just pack up and leave. I have to wait until the people currently using the space are finished, or I have to call the main office and have one of the paid staff members come in and cover. Well, it won’t be a problem going forward. I got a message from the program manager today telling me that the volunteer will no longer be volunteering with us, effective immediately. Now when I work my regular shift, I can tell people that they can’t start X, Y, or Z after 1:30 because I leave at 3:00 and no one will be there any later. Easy solution!

  193. yikes*

    If I’m headed back to interview for the fifth time can I finally wear the suit I wore the first time around again? Or do I need an entirely new outfit? At this point these people have seen basically all of my work wear.

    1. Uncivil Engineer*

      If your suit is all black or all gray and has no distinguishing features, then I doubt anyone would notice if you wore the same suit they saw you in four interviews ago. Just wear a different shirt underneath.

      1. yikes*

        Ugh, thank god. I have two interviews next week, and only one suit. Which my husband bullied the dry cleaner into having ready by Sunday at 5.

    2. neverjaunty*

      Mix it up with some different jewelry, or a shell, or shoes. If the suit is a basic color like navy or black nobody will be thinking “ugh, it’s the same suit again”.

  194. Not a Cat Lady*

    I knew from day one it wasn’t a right fit at my job. The advice everyone gave was to stick it out because it takes a few months to assimilate. A few months passed and I got fired. It wasn’t a surprise though. The job wasn’t what I was expecting or how it was sold to me. It was sales and I thought it’d be 95% interacting with people. Instead it was 95% computer work, fixing spreadsheets, etc. I was very bad, and very slow. And I knew it! I’m very bad and slow a that kind of work. The official reason I was given in my letter was not meeting my sales quota, which I knew I didn’t, so not a surprise.

    Well… I signed up for unemployment benefits, and the govt rep said my employer claimed I had been fired for misconduct! They said I was late to work a lot a lot and would call out sick. Which is basically the most hilarious thing I’ve ever heard. Because not only did I not have set working hours — I didn’t have to be in the office!!! The office was literally the production facility and I worked from home! The only time I’d go in is the once a month or so I’d have meetings scheduled with my boss (who was in the office even less than me because he had another job!), or just for a change of scenery. Sometimes I’d work from home and then go in during my lunch hour to work there the other half of the day. I think it’s the funniest thing I’ve ever heard!

    My guess is that their lawyer told them to say misconduct so their rates they’d have to pay for unemployment benefits wouldn’t increase? It’s the silliest thing ever! At least the govt rep was nice. She said they claimed I would refuse to do work, which is also silly — I did do it, but I was just horrible at it because, again, not what I had signed up for. So my boss would end up redoing it himself and telling me not to do it anymore.

    Also what’s really funny about this whole “misconduct” thing is my boss said he’d write me a letter of recommendation if I wanted! Hahaha.

      1. Not a Cat Lady*

        I did! The department lady was like, “Were you fired for misconduct?”
        “No.”
        Long pause.
        “No?!”
        And I told her all that I said here. I didn’t hear back so I think it’s all good. She said they’d have to provide proof of misconduct, which they can’t possibly have…

        1. neverjaunty*

          It’s pretty common for some toxic companies to routinely fight unemployment with a script about how the employee was terrible. After all, some people don’t fight it and then they make money, so why not take a shot, is their thinking.

    2. The Rat-Catcher*

      But they put in writing to you that the reason you were fired was not meeting quotas?
      Um…okay. Good luck with that, crappy employer.

  195. Volunteer*

    Has anyone here ever been on strike? What support from your friends/family or community did you appreciate during your time on the picket line?

    Workers at an organization where I volunteer went on strike this week. I’d like to support them if I can. Any suggestions on the best ways to do that? Deliver coffee/food/other? Write to management? Something else I’m not thinking of? What would be the most helpful to them?

    1. Humble Schoolmarm*

      I was in a (very short) strike recently and all of the things you’ve listed were very appreciated. A sympathetic discussion of the strike issues, company on the picket line and organizing some sort of large-scale letter writing campaign or boycott if that’s possible are also great.

  196. ConfusedYoungster*

    Hello all! I am in a bit of a dilemma… but before I explain what’s going on, a bit of background information:

    I am a recent college graduate that works at a part time job completely irrelevant to the degree I have earned. The only reason why I am staying here is because I sincerely love the people I work with and my manager is one of my closest friends. This past December, I hurt my back while playing sports, and it was only until Feb. I really started paying attention to it. In March, I finally asked my manager if I could take a leave from work to recover from my injury and undergo 12 weeks of therapy, and she graciously allowed me to do so (and am still on leave to this day for recovering.) She didn’t even want a doctor’s note or anything and said I could come back when I’m ready.

    This break has caused me to do a lot of thinking, especially for what’s next in my future. For my career, I will need to be attending a graduate program, and for the applications regardless of what schools I apply to, they all want experience that is related to the field. With that being said, I really want to leave my current part-time job and find a job that is related to my field.

    The problem is… how to quit? I can’t give the official two-weeks notice since I’m out with injury. And I don’t really want to talk about this matter at work since at work, one doesn’t know when would be the best time to approach her since she’s doing multiple different things in such a fast-paced environment, so I don’t want to add to what she’s already dealing with at work (and she deals with quite a lot.) Also, I guess I’m just overall scared of what will come out of this conversation. My manager has been a big sister figure to me (she’s only about 4 years older than I am), and if I talk about leaving, I’m afraid of our relationship changing. How would one approach this whole situation? Please and thank you everyone!

    1. ConfusedYoungster*

      Also to add to this: I’ve been with this company for two years, and before that, been with a similar company for two years (also irrelevant to my degree), and let’s just say I need a new calling on life.

    2. all good*

      I’m going to assume you work in food service or retail, correct me if I’m wrong. But: you can absolutely give notice while on leave. They are already staffing around your absence, and are more likely to be prepared now than after you return and are reintegrated into the schedule. In taking 12 weeks of leave you are essentially going to be re-hired when you return anyway. I highly doubt you are considered essential personnel, so they are basically holding your job for you as a favor right now.

      Let your friend know that you’ve had a lot of time to consider and while you appreciat the work you were doing, and getting to work with her and your colleagues, it feels like time to start looking for a position related to your field, and you will not be returning after your leave. You can always stop by in person and speak with her, or ask her to coffee, etc. This isn’t awkward or weird, or even bad, and the more time you give them the better. IE: don’t quit the day you come back.

    3. H.C.*

      It depends if you want to quit before you get new job offer; if not, I would say wait until you have an offer (& accepted it) before giving notice to your current manager. If you do want to quit now regardless of having a new job lined up, I would have that conversation once you return to work – so you and your manager and determine the best way to transition out.

      I wouldn’t worry about adding to what she’s already dealing with at work, handling new & outgoing team members is a part of her job as a manager – there’s never a perfect time for one of her direct reports to quit, but she has to be flexible with that and do her best to transition & replace you.

      And RE: relationship changes, if anything, I think the friendship has potential to improve after your leaving, since there’s no longer the power dynamic of her being your manager (and letting business matters slide into personal lives or vice versa), especially if you give reasonable notice and offer to help make the transition as smooth as possible.

  197. Free Meerkats (formerly Gene)*

    Work conference in San Antonio all next week! Travelling Monday, training Tuesday, conference Wednesday-Friday noon, travel home Friday afternoon.

    You all have fun, I may have time to pop on, but won’t be around as much as usual.

  198. Louise*

    I work as an EA in an academic department, and I’m currently on FMLA maternity leave – just had my first baby, yay! My boss and I have a great relationship, such that I felt able to tell her before my leave that I wasn’t sure whether I would want to return to work part-time or to stay home. I’m a little over a month into my twelve-week leave, and I’m feeling the need to follow up now and let her know that I am still interested in a part-time position, and to ask whether they may be able to offer me one (because we are a state university, creating or changing an existing position isn’t a 100% certainty). However! My director has transitioned into another role, leading a branch off of our department. The new director, and the person I would be EA for, is a professor who’s been with our department for three years, and with whom I work well. I don’t know how to best pick up the conversation with the new director to express my interest in a part-time role for me, should one exist. Has anyone navigated anything like this before? I have been silently reading AAM and the comment threads for month, and I feel sure that this is the place to look for insightful advice. Thank you!

  199. Captain Lavender*

    So, I applied yesterday for a job that would be a definite career change, using things I’ve learned from AAM & How to Get a Job to write a cover letter that outlines exactly how I think my skills are transferable. I”m not actively looking for other work, but it seemed like it could be very interesting…aside from the one giant red flag in the job posting:

    “Superior customer service skills with the ability to work in a very busy environment that has complex, sensitive, and sometimes hostile situations and is able to maintain strict confidentiality with tact and diplomacy”.

    If I score an interview, I will definitely be asking about the sometimes “hostile” situations! Glass half full – at least they are up front about it!

    Before you all think I’m some kind of masochist, it does seem to be interesting work, has great benefits, a pension plan, and opportunities for growth. Not to mention, at a minimum a 20% pay bump. And the opportunity to get out of a field that I fell into 25 years ago. Wish me luck, I think?

    1. H.C.*

      Is it in the medical/health industry? Picking up cues from the combination of hostile situations & strict confidentiality.

      If so, I presume those situations would include people having grievances about their care, or people (family, friends, partners, media, etc.) being adamant about getting access to patients’ medical information that they have no right to see.

      But yeah, definitely ask for examples of difficult situations this role would be involved in (while keeping in mind of ways you can calmly de-escalate those situations, in case the interviewers flip it back to you with a “how would you respond?”)

    2. Colette*

      That doesn’t actulayy seem outrageous to me – customers can be awful. I’d be concerned about how awful as well as what the policy is for dealing with them. If the customer is threatening and you hang up/deny service, will management support you? What kind of power do you have to fix the problem?

  200. Project Manager*

    Last year there was a change in management and my snarky, annoying co-worker was promoted to my manager. She made some ageist, discriminatory remarks on two separate occasions and I complained to HR. My goal in complaining was to see if I could be transferred to another department. I was informed HR didn’t do that.

    The HR team was going to conduct a confidential investigation. A few weeks later my manager sent me an email calling me out for filing a complaint with HR. She retaliated against me and gave me a bad performance evaluation and placed me on a PIP. She also harassed me for several months. The HR investigation was “inconclusive” and closed. I asked for the investigation to be re-opened and HR refused.

    A few ago I asked my boss’s boss who was also a project sponsor a few questions about a project I was asked to review all of the documents and make a recommendation on. My asking questions apparently set the grand boss off and I was given a choice to quit or be fired. I quit. My question is; what do I say in interviews about why I quit without saying anything negative about my former boss and employer?

    1. The Rat-Catcher*

      From reading this, I’m not 100% clear on why you were let go, so it’s hard to say. For…asking questions? Or is that just a sham for retaliation about the complaints?

      1. Project Manager*

        I wasn’t let go, I was told to quit or be fired. My boss was basically retaliating and harassing me for filing a complaint with HR over her ageist, discriminatory remarks. I’m just wondering what to say in interviews as to why I left this job, without saying anything that can seem negative about the former boss and organization?

  201. Mandy*

    I’ve got a doozy…

    I’m a Project Manager for a busy company. I’ve been where I am for almost 8 years, and have moved up the ranks during that time. We’ve had 7 directors of teapot operations during my tenure there. I’ve had 8 line managers in 14 months. Morale is at an all time low and people are resigning like nobody’s business. I was managing 6 projects. On 5/1, the director came to me and a said that due to recent resignations, they needed me to take on 2 additional projects. I said there was no way I could do that, as I have been working 50-56 hours per week since November. She insisted. After going home, looking at my finances, talking to my family, I decided to resign. I cannot work in that environment. I am actively looking for a job and tentatively have secured a 3 month contract.

    Fast forward one week later – we find out that I’m pregnant, at age 42. So now, I’m basically pregnant and unemployed. I’m not sure if I should continue to interview, take the contract and hope it stretches to 6 months, or what. To say this week has been incredibly stressful is an understatement. I am only about 6 weeks along and would not disclose to an employer at this stage, as my age and a thyroid condition means I am at an increased chance of miscarriage. We don’t plan to tell even our families until past the 1st trimester mark.

    What to do? Ugh

    1. UnderpaidinSeattle*

      That is a doozy! I’m the same age and similar news would definitely throw me for a loop. I wish you well!

      How’s the job market where you are? In my experience, a solid, experienced project director is always highly in demand so there isn’t a huge downside either way. Coming out of a long-term dysfunctional work situation, a short-term contract could be great to decompress and try something new with less pressure and when it ends you will still be early enough that job searching won’t be super awkward.

      But if the job search itself is really stressful for you, it might make sense to hold out for a longer term contract or permanent position. That this one came along so quickly bodes well for a search overall.

    2. Book Lover*

      Congratulations! I hope you have a healthy and happy pregnancy :)

      I think I would interview…. You didn’t mention health insurance. You wouldn’t qualify for fmla, but a lot of decent companies would still provide leave for a new baby, and you’d have insurance.

      On the other hand, if you have health insurance through a partner and the financial situation doesn’t look so rocky, then maybe just rest for now, as you are likely tired, and work on the short term contract while seeing whether networking leads you somewhere…?

  202. Snazzy Hat*

    Kind of a rant, I guess. In regard to where I am in the interview stage, I’ve crossed the threshold from “optimistic with a bit of confidence” to “totally panicking quietly and assuming I won’t get the job”. Phone interview went well, in-person interview went very well, no major reasons to think I completely flubbed a question. But I’ve had such crappy or complicated luck with jobs since I entered the workforce eleven years ago. To keep things short, I’ll summarize.

    I’m currently an independent contractor working one or two days a week. My past employment falls into one of two categories: retail or temp work (I was a temp when I started my current job). I am more than eager to have a job that doesn’t come with a side of job searching or a dark rain cloud. I feel stupid for thinking I “deserve” a real job that I’ll want to stay in and also be allowed to stay in. And here I am, waiting for a callback with one of the best companies in my region for a job I would love (based on duties, requirements, hours, pay, benefits, commute, and a few other things). I’m so close to being free from job searching, but there’s gotta be something that will get me rejected, which would mean I’ll need to continue looking for a full-time job.

    And it gets scarier. I applied for three very similar positions with the company. The timeline went: 1) phone interview for Alpha; 2) rejection letter for Beta; 3) in-person interview for Alpha with the managers for Alpha, Beta, and Gamma; 4) notice of cancellation of the Gamma position. So I went from three open positions to one.

    Sigh. I know to not put so much at stake in an application, but I feel like I couldn’t help it. This is such an awesome place to work with such a wonderful culture, and suddenly there’s all this dread filling my mind and it’s hard to not think about how devastated I’ll be when (because I can’t even think “if”) they reject me.

    Sorry for being a downer.

    1. Jean (just Jean)*

      I hear you on the “crappy or complicated luck with jobs” experience.
      Give yourself credit for having
      – gumption and follow-up to apply to _three_ jobs at this company
      – enough positive vibes in your self-presentation (cover letter & resume) to get three in-person interviews–that’s a one-to-one ratio of applications to interviews, which is great
      – finding the inner strength to get through all of the past difficult years
      Take a deep breath, take good care of yourself (sleep, nutrition, exercise, social contact to the extent that works for you, and positive ways to divert yourself from the gloomy thoughts), and keep on keeping on. It can take time to get out of a hole but it sounds to me like you are definitely on an upward spiral.

  203. Lloyd*

    A resume question: I have been avoiding listing graduate education in my resume as I didn’t write my thesis and therefore don’t have the degree. However, the only job I have held for more than 1 year is my graduate asstship, which I did for 2 years. Should I add those back into my resume, or should I leave it as 3×1 year jobs and a progression from intern to paid employee? Do the 2 years of asstship show me as low flight risk MORE than an unfinished degree says can’t commit to a long project to the end?

    Also how do you list a masters you haven’t earned yet, Thesis pending? I don’t have an expected grad date and the degree is not in the industry I’m in now.

  205. WG*

    For the past 7 months I’ve been attending a training program through the work. Today was the last training session and we all had to do a presentation. I really hate public speaking and was stressed about the presentation, but it went well! I didn’t do fabulously, but I also didn’t totally embarrass myself either.

  206. Girl, Wants Career.*

    So, I posted last week about supercreep; the next day, I told my manager. She was disbelieving, mentioned something about him “punching above his weight”, then told me that as “an attractive girl” it’s something I’ve just got to get used to. Which, one off comments, I’ll ignore. It’s the continual ones, but I digress. (She also told another coworker the same thing when he did it to her, so I was pretty on the money with the reaction.)

    Anyway, I took everyone’s advice and ignored him wherever physically possible. He’s lurked, but now I think he knows it won’t be happening and I won’t engage with him, he keeps his head down and peruses the store but leaves very quickly. I also make a point of engaging with other customers when he’s in the store, so he’s getting the message loud and clear.

    Thanks everyone! I’m glad there were people not thinking it was a normal, expected thing for work – and my other coworker and I have made sure to speak to our youngest coworker (first job, very shy) about avoiding him in particular as she’s now going to be working the shifts where he comes in (purely by chance, by the way; my studies have cropped up a bit more, so I’ve dropped back a few shifts).

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      then told me that as “an attractive girl” it’s something I’ve just got to get used to

      Please know this is complete crap. I’m sorry your manager hasn’t stepped up and banned him.

      1. Girl, Wants Career.*

        Oh yeah, I was mildly horrified that she even said that. Enough reading here has taught me this is DEFINITELY not what the appropriate response is! Argh.

  207. WriterLady*

    Alison, I think I emailed you about a million years ago regarding resume proofing, and I’ve completely lost the email (I’m clever like that). Do you still offer resume proofing services? I’ve found a job listing that seems awesome and I really want to get it right!

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’m not currently offering it. But if you bought one previously that you still haven’t used (not sure if that’s what you mean or not), it’s still good!

      1. WriterLady*

        Unfortunately I hadn’t bought one, but thanks for the reply! I’ll lurk in the resume/cover letter archives :D

  208. Trix*

    I know I’m super late today, but I just had to say I just finished my first week at my new job! It was wonderful and overwhelming and a little (okay, a lot) terrifying. Everyone has been so nice and welcoming, and I am feeling really confident that this was absolutely the right move me.

    Thanks to Alison and all of you wonderful people, hopefully I’ll be able to be a great coworker in a non-toxic work environment.

    Also, work plants. Thoughts? I have no direct (or even indirect, really) sunlight, so air plants are out, based on what the internet tells me, which was my first thought.

  209. Pathfinder Ryder*

    To my confusion, I seem to have gotten a 35c (not USD) raise this month! I’m confused because:
    – Usually raises achieved by the union are announced with a letter, but I haven’t received one, and these raises usually happen around July.
    – I wrote on a self assessment a month ago that one of my goals was a raise, because my manager’s given me additional duties from two other employees in different departments (I was underworked; they were overworked), but that I wasn’t planning on really discussing this until I really had those duties under control and then until my health’s under control (I’m on reduced hours this month for an illness that my doctors have been scratching their heads over).
    – I just hit my three year anniversary with the company but I don’t recall anniversary raises my last couple of years.

    Might bring this up with my manager next week (it’s Saturday here) but really, I’m not complaining, the extra $10 a fortnight is nice :)

  210. Please just reply to my emails*

    Long-time reader, first-time commenter. I could use some advice. One of the people on my team doesn’t respond to emails from me unless I copy our manager. Sometimes I’m copied on emails with her and other people and she seems to respond to them without problem – it’s just me she won’t respond to. We are at the same level. This is frustrating in general, but we recently got a new manager and I’m not sure how to handle things moving forwards. I never talked about it directly with my previous manager, but he seemed to understand. I feel like my new manager is going to get annoyed that I’m cc’ing him on all these emails, so I should explain why I do this. On the other hand, that seems awkward. Maybe it’s better to talk to my non-responding coworker first? What would I even say?

    1. Melody Pond*

      Ask the new manager what he would prefer?

      “Jane tends not to respond to my emails with things I need, unless I Cc our manager. When that was Bob, he was okay with me simply Cc’ing him on everything. Shall I continue to do that with you, or is there another way you’d like me to approach this?”

      New manager might ask you whether you’ve talked to your co-worker about it yet, though.

      Also, the Boomerang plugin for Outlook 2013 with Office 365, is super helpful for situations (i.e., co-workers) like these, if your employer happens to have an Office 365 subscription.

      1. Drew*

        I use Boomerang with Gmail and it is a lifesaver. The “bring this back and flag it if no one responds” feature is even better than the “take this out of my inbox for an hour and then bring it back with bells and whistles” feature that I use almost daily.

      1. Please just reply to my emails*

        I haven’t because I haven’t been able to figure out what to say so it doesn’t seem super confrontational. It seems really straightforward, since I see her respond to other people’s emails and she responds to mine immediately once I copy our manager. Any ideas?

        1. Tabby Baltimore*

          The only thing I can think of is to approach her as if she is unaware that she’s doing this. Before I approached, though, I’d make printouts of 2 or 3 email chains/threads that show you seeking a response from her and her non-responsiveness. These should be emails from the period right before you decided to start cc’ing your manager on everything. You’ll need these to show her you’re not making this up. A script might go something like this: “Jane, since we have a new manager now, I’ve been revisiting some of my email habits. While going through my inbox, I noticed a pattern, and I wanted to ask you about it. Are you aware that I receive responses from you only when I cc: our manager?” If she denies it, you have your proof handy. “I’m asking because I want to know if there’s a reason this is happening. I’d like to understand better why you’re not responding when it’s just me asking a question.” If she doesn’t seem inclined to acknowledge there’s a problem, *and you want to see if her behavior will change,* then you’ll have to bring out Alison’s standard response: “Going forward, when I send you emails with specific questions and deadlines, I’d like to receive a response from you within the suggested timeframe in the email. Can you commit to doing that?” If she says no, you can ask why (if you care about knowing); maybe it’s something you are willing to work on, maybe not. If she’s not willing to stop ignoring you, then you will know to go to your manager and use Melody Pond’s script, above.

          1. Jessica*

            I would NOT appreciate that script from someone who was not the boss of me. I know the OP here is just trying to get this maddening colleague to reply ever, but “within the suggested timeframe in the email” basically means I get to not only email and ask you for stuff, but tell you how fast you better do it (possibly at the expense of your other priorities). I would not recommend talking like that to someone who doesn’t report to you. But you could drop that part and just ask if she’ll reply to your email.
            Or you could sort of restart–wait for the next thing she doesn’t reply to, and go talk to her. It’ll be interesting to see what she says! She’s gotten off pretty easy with this behavior so far, since neither you nor your old manager directly engaged with her about it.

    3. neverjaunty*

      Do you have any idea why Jane isn’t responding to your emails unless your manager is cc’d? Is it just you who doesn’t get email responses? Unless you know (or strongly suspect) that Jane really hates you, why not talk to her?

  211. AJaya*

    I am looking for a job and am working with a recruitment agency for the first time. I’ve noticed that a lot of the positions listed through the agency have a salary range. From what I understand, placement agencies are usually paid a percentage of the applicant’s total salary, right? Wouldn’t they be incentivized to negotiate the highest salary possible for the applicant? What are some reasons why a recruiter wouldn’t try to advocate for the top of the salary range? Or are recruiters left out of the salary negotiation altogether?

    1. Undine*

      Recruiters would love to see everyone get the top of the range, but the employer decides based on the applicant. If the job wants 2-5 years experience and knowledge of chocolate teapots, the applicant with 5 years experience in milk, bitter, and white chocolate teapots will get a higher offer than the applicant with 2 years experience in milk chocolate teapot spouts. But the company might still decide they could make the second applicant work.

  212. Trixie*

    I’m looking at yoga teaching training in the fall if I can swing the tuition. It’s a ten month program meeting one weekend a month which I can handle around my 9-5 job. I’ve already contacted studio to start reading list so I’m less stressed when class starts. Looking forward to studying something new and a project I can wrap up in a year. Win, win!

  213. Salty*

    Help! I applied for two jobs in a nearby firm, with expertise in both. Within 24 hours of hitting submit, three references were contacted and I have a voicemail requesting interviews next week.
    I have not worn interview clothes in 10 years…and apparently I’m now plus sized. Where can I go tomorrow to find clothes? Not a suit, but one step down would be appropriate. Fun, not frumpy for this environment.
    Birkenstocks and leggings under a dress with a funky sweater are my current uniform, and will be appropriate if I’m hired.

    1. Book Lover*

      Macy’s? Or if you think you could do a dress with a suit jacket, maybe Dress Barn? The name is awful but they have cute things that would work.

    3. Snazzy Hat*

      JCPenney and Dress Barn. Good luck with the clothes and the interviews! {flings confetti}

  215. Landladylurker aka Bat Ears*

    So my boss has somehow come to the conclusion that I am capable of eavesdropping on his every conversation. I’m in a seperate room from him, down a hallway with thick walls and usually there is other people taking in our admittedly small building, or someone has music going.

    If I concentrate, I would be able to listen to him if his door was open and the building was relatively calm and I had no work to do. He has taken to just sneaking in requests to me in the middle of a conversation without raising his voice or changing his inflection. I’ll usually hear my name and tune in, but usually all I hear is my name and then something about reports, and will have to go over to his office and ask him to repeat what he said. My coworkers will be loudly called out to so they can call back out to him with their answers, but when I just hear my name and don’t know context I don’t wanna just yell out to him when he could just be mentioning me in passing. I’m trying to just ignore my name and stop rewarding that behaviour but it’s kinda counter intuitive at this point.

    He also thinks I can listen in when he has the door shut and there is a meeting in the room across from my office with the door open. He had to make a quick judgment call in that meeting with one of my sorta direct reports (I share custody of this report) who was new and made a few major mistakes in areas that he “didn’t” need training in. It was along the lines of crashing the company car cause he hasn’t drove in the 6-7 years since he got his license and didn’t know how to do it anymore. He has claimed to be a great driver and had lied about how the mistakes happened. Since he was still probationary, the boss decided to just cut him loose, which I agree with, but then he never came over to tell me what had happened so I had assumed they had come to an angreement.

    The next day I asked one of my thankfully least gossipy reports if the fired guy had called in sick and I’m so embarrassed how often I have to admit to people I’m lacking even the most basic information. Since this isn’t the first time I’ve been missing information I’m wondering if this is becoming a common thing now.

    1. Chaordic One*

      Um, trying to be positive about the situation, the only thing I can think of to say is be thankful you don’t have to work with your boss in an open office.

  216. Kat*

    I’ve spent the last two weeks interviewing and trying to find ANYONE to hire, and it’s been and endless nightmare. It’s an entry level basic retail job, I’m not looking for experience or extreme skills, and we pay well with a decent flexible schedule. AND YET.

    I’ve called at least three dozen people. Half of them either had down a wrong phone number, put down no phone number, or have a voicemail that is not set up so I can’t even leave a message. Of the ones I was able to leave a message for, only four called back. The rest that I managed to actually reach I’ve interviewed (except for the one that had ten different excuses for why no day of the week or time was available).

    I’ve never had so many awful interviews. People who can’t look at me, people who won’t stop talking about things not even related to what I asked, people who can’t tell me what they did at their last job or what they enjoyed about it, people who are unable to think of anything they would improve about themselves, people who didn’t like their last job because ‘everyone called my gf a ho so I got into a lot of fights’, people who tell me they always show up an hour early even after their manager told them not to (?!?), people who answer ‘tell me something you excel at’ with a sport that has nothing to do with the work (and don’t even manage to make a … team leader/self directed/whatever connection), people who tell me they can only work these three days during these six hours when the moon is aligned a certain way or something, people who tell me they are awesome at chatting with customers but can’t put together a full sentence in their interview, people whose emails show up as sent from ‘so and so has issues’ or ‘so and so’s lil bb mama!!’, people who can’t manage to answer a single question I ask, had ‘ethnic’ instead of ethic as the first (caps, bolded, 16 pt font) thing on their resume …

    Ugh. The worst part is that I am literally at the point of hiring a couple of these people because no one better has applied and I NEED someone before the rest of my team burns out trying to cover the increased summer schedule.

    1. Rebecca*

      Could you try using a temp agency? What about referrals from your existing staff? Are there upcoming job fairs in your area?

      1. Kat*

        Unfortunately, this is a very small, very rural area and there are no local temp agencies. My staff consists of three people at the moment and none of them have any referrals – the people they know are either already happily employed, not local, or good friends but not good workers. There are no job fairs that I am aware of, this area doesn’t really do those either.

    2. Jean (just Jean)*

      I’m not a manager but I know that many young people are seeking employment this time of year, especially soon-to-be high school graduates who need to earn money for college.
      Do you know any high school students, college students, people who have children or other relatives in either population…? Are there any youth mentoring or adults-in-transition programs in your community?
      Is there anyone in your extended network who is in transition (trailing spouses, new graduates…) or who wants a second gig and has a flexible schedule?
      Can you advertise via posting on local listservs (neighborhood, congregational, high school, college career center or specific college/university departments) and/or by old-fashioned flyers on bulletin boards in the hardware store / library / coffee shop …?
      Try not to hire any of these awful-sounding candidates. It will just compound your problems. Your current staff will get burned out trying to handle the increased summer schedule while working alongside someone ineffective. In addition, you’ll have to get rid of the new employee.

      1. Kat*

        Most of the high school grads in this area are either under 18, which we don’t hire, or are part of the group that only wants to work every third Wed every other month or such. I personally don’t know anyone – I’m very antisocial and while I can fake it at work, I only manage that by having zero people contact outside of work. So no extended network either. There is one organization of that sort in the area, but honestly they are terrible. We have posted flyers in many of those areas as well as online. I just feel so frustrated because I know hiring someone who is not great will be annoying and end poorly, but not hiring anyone at all will also end poorly. This is just such an awful area, everyone else is having the same problems with need to hiring and not having anyone good to hire.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Well at this level, I suppose it’s somewhat to be expected.
      Can you partner with a local school or college who are seeking to place interns or recent graduates? They also often have job boards, so you might get a better quality of applicant.
      Also, a temp agency, who does the pre-screening first?

      But where are you posting the job? Your responses indicate very broadly (like Craigslist) which won’t garner the best applicants.

      1. Kat*

        No local colleges (extremely rural area, pop under 3k) and the high school students are either too young or part of the group that wants to work specific schedules that I can’t work with. No temp agencies in the area. Right now we’ve posted on two local job sites, the state job site, and then monster and indeed. NOT craigslist, ever.

        1. Anna Held*

          Rural to me means the churches are a main social force. I’d call the church offices and ask if they have any volunteers who need the money, i.e. older women who are still active but not usually working. They can have trouble finding a job, but would be great for you. Some might think it’s crazy or just say “no, can’t think of anyone”, but who cares? You need one chatty type who knows her congregation to give you a good name or two. Maybe they’ll even put it in the church bulletin. If you’re in a rural area, there aren’t many jobs, so this can be a big help to the right person.. I’d outsource it to your most gregarious employee if you’re not comfortable with it.

          Also, what about school teachers? They don’t make a lot either.

          1. Kat*

            You have a good point about lots of churches as a social force. Tbh though, I just don’t like the thought of reaching out to them. This area is the sort of area that gives ‘christian’ a bad name, and my current group of employees (and myself) are all from various groups that have no fared well with local congregations. I would not feel at all comfortable working with someone who was deeply religious, and I suspect they would not enjoy working here either. I suppose you never know though. (I couldn’t outsource it, none of us go to church.)

            With school teachers I worry about the same scheduling issues.

  217. Johnny T.*

    I’m soon to be 36 years old and recently interviewed for a sales position I would have been perfect for. I know the company, know the products and have extensive experience selling similar products in the past. The thing Is, I not only didn’t get the position, but it (the position) was completely cancelled. The interview seemed to go incredibly well in spite of the interviewer seeming like he’d rather be elsewhere, he implied that I should be hearing back from them in a few days but I never did. I have applied to subsequent positions and don’t even get as far as an interview anymore even though I’m qualified. Thinking back on the day of the interview, I don’t recall seeing a single employee over the age of 25 and feel I may be getting discriminated against because of my age. How can I prove this and what can I do about it (if anything) and aren’t I a little young to be “too old” for certain positions?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      If the position got cancelled, there’s nothing to prove – it’s disappointing but it happens.

      1. Johnny T.*

        The reputation of this particular location has taken a nose dive in recent years. It used to have a positive reputation as a company people wanted to work for and customers-companies wanted to do business with. Now it seems there are a lot of negative reviews regarding rudeness and incompetence on the part of the staff, high turn over and workers being mistreated by management to an extent. I’m not sure why they wouldn’t want to hire more knowledgeable and experienced staff who can turn around the negatives and make the place something positive again.

        1. neverjaunty*

          You’re making a pretty big stretch here from not getting a position and the position being canceled, to “they wouldn’t want to hire more knowledgeable and experienced staff”.

          That you didn’t happen to notice anyone who (you thought to be) over 25 != age discrimination.

          1. Johnny T.*

            I kind of pieced a few of these things together after the position I interviewed for was cancelled. I thought back on the day of the interview and even though it was late in the day, I don’t recall seeing a single sales person over the age of 30. Many looked as though they just graduated high school or weren’t even out of it yet and the person who interviewed me appeared to be in his mid-late 20’s making him a decade or so younger than myself. Although, I likely didn’t encounter every single employee or travel every inch of the building you would expect from the jump to see age diversity walking into a place like this, but everyone seemed to belong to the same age group. The negative reviews about working there and negative customer experiences are obviously from other people and not from my own experience so this isn’t sour grapes over not being hired or even interviewed for subsequent positions that I applied to for which I met and even exceeded the criteria. True some of the negative comments could be from disgruntled former employees and irate customers but a few dozen posts saying similar if not the exact same things kind of makes you wonder.

            1. Johnny T.*

              They cancelled a few positions on me and others only to repost them either word for word or repackage a full time permanent position as a part time temporary position within a few days-weeks of the cancellation. Not really sure what the deal is with that it’s like they advertise positions, collect applications, interview people and then scrap the position and start the process over again.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      Age discrimination is only illegal if you are over 40 and/or if you’re applying to certain government contractors.

    3. MissGirl*

      Sounds like it’s less age discrimination and more they don’t want to pay good salaries for experienced people. Doesn’t sound like a place you want to work for anyhow.

  218. Deathstar*

    Hello, would appreciate any advice/encouragement anyone can give: after 4 years of being in a job i love (but have poor intellectual/creative fit with my boss), I think it’s time for me to go.

    I don’t actually think I am bad at my work, just that ideologically I am very different from my boss, and i am not quick enough to develop the critical creativity he wants from me. Also, I feel that there are too many projects at any one moment, and while i agree to some level of multitasking, I feel the workload is a bit too much for me to give it my best.

    So while the fit was never perfect, the fissures have opened. I feel my boss is losing patience, at times it feels he is on a canpaign for me to leave (although we did talk about this (i initiated the talk) in November and he said he didn’t have a problem then.)

    I am looking for a job now; but i feel the shadow of this experience when i start to write my professional profile: i question myself: Can i really say I am organised? Can i really claim to be able to handle multiple tasks at the same time? Can i really claim to have attention to detail?

    Thing is: i sew for a hobby: and i know from that, that I DO have attention to detail. At work, i DO map out my days, with prioritisation of tasks. I want to think: it is the work environment that is not conducive: but I am sure it’s entirely fair for people to say, the perfect environment doesn’t exist.

    So I’m not sure what claims i can make about my abilities in new job applications.

    i’d appreciate any perspective anyone can give on this. Thank you!

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      I’m sorry you’re in this situation.

      You shouldn’t be putting subjective qualities on your resume though! Anyone can say they are organised. Skip the descriptions and list things that show you have them. So, don’t say you’re organised – do give details of the kind of things you’re successfully organising.

      1. Deathstar*

        Thanks! That’s a really good point!

        I think on balance there are several things i can demonstrate having brought to completion successfully. I’ve been rattled that he’s highlighted some “failures” recently that hadn’t come up at appraisals for the past four years; so I’m kind of second guessing myself.

        But yes, once i look at specifics there are concrete things i can list. Thank you for this!

  219. holly*

    Has anyone here been through a union campaign? We’re on the precipice of going public at my non-profit. We’re pretty confident we’ll succeed in unionizing. The actual union is less than half of the total staff because of title issues – an enormous number of people at my workplace have the title “manager” even if they don’t manage anyone, and due to NLRB laws we can’t have them in the union.

    Anyway, lots of colleagues not eligible for union membership are supporters, including everyone on my team. I am the only person on my team who will be part of the union, and will be the only person wearing a button when we go public on my team. My boss, part of the exec team, does not know this is happening, obviously, and I am really nervous about how to navigate things when the time comes. Given the history of some very minor coordinated staff pushback on other issues, it is going to be a shit fight and our CEO and exec team will be furious. It’s not really a place where I can put on my professionalism hat and go about my day, the staff culture is very casual even with exec team, and I have the distinct sense that this will be seen or treated as a personal slight by many of the people above me. Our CEO is petty and vengeful, our president has an easily bruised ego, and other exec members pride themselves on closeness to staff (though they remain pretty clueless to our discontent). There’s a lot of gaslighting in our work place (i.e. HR telling staff they aren’t sympathetic to exec’s workloads when we push for change, we should be grateful for what we’ve got even though we’re gravely under-compensated, etc.).

    I would really appreciate any stories from folks who’ve gone through the process of going public and bargaining for a union contract, and any strategies for dealing with tension in an otherwise friendly, casual work environment.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I am afraid that I don’t have much positive to say. My husband’s degree was in labor relations and union arbitration. He never used the degree. It’s difficult, at best.

      My best advice is start looking for a new job. From what I have learned, people who are involved in bringing in a union many times end up fire themselves. Is this legal? no. But this is the way it goes.

      Google NCR and union, to learn about the court case there regarding fired employees.

      One the other side of the coin, I was in a union for a while. A well known union, at that. The union dues were one day’s pay each month. My coworkers were on food stamps because the pay was so low to begin with. Then the union would call up and tell people that they had to go walk a picket line somewhere. If you did not go you got a black mark next to your name. If you had a union issue later, they would count the black marks before deciding whether or not to help you. It said this right in their handouts that they gave us. I was called the night before to walk a picket line 50 miles away from me. I said no, so you know what happened to me. They did give us flyers, promising to teach us how to read, though. My head hurts thinking about this.

      The union was just as oppressive as the employer.

      At the core, a union will not turn bad bosses into good bosses. Your upper level people will not get a personality transplant, which is probably what is needed here. Expect tension, expect blow back. Think before you speak and stay sharp. It would be dishonest of me to tell you anything less. Read everything you can get your hands on.

  220. Anxa*

    Ugh! I have an interview on Monday and the hem to my good pants that I’ve had for years came unraveled! I don’t think a suit would be appropriate, and my suit pants are a size smaller and can be a bit tight.

    I think, though, that sitting down and learning to sew them back will help me kind of focus on mentally preparing.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Maybe you can find a video on YouTube? Good luck with the pants and the interview.

    2. Whats In A Name*

      Fixing a hem isn’t nearly as hard as it might seam….

      Seriously, thought, it’s quite easy. Find a tutorial on YouTube if you need to and go. The good news is if they are black pants with a black hem a out of place stitch won’t stand out.

      good luck tomorrow!!

  221. Tech Monster*

    So I live in NJ. Currently I work full time at a nonprofit in a job that required a master’s degree. I love what I do but there’s fairly limited growth in my field and the current political climate does boast well for our funding. While I think my job is secure in the immediate future, it’s left me feeling nervous. Aside from my current job, I don’t have any advanced certifications. I’m looked into getting them. I quite enjoyed the few accounting classes I took in college and I’ve decided to go for my CPA. I’m signing up for classes at the local community college and will have enough classes to sit for the CPA exam in December 2018. At that point I’ll focus on taking and passing the exam with the goal of passing by the end of 2019. I do however have a dilemma. My job at the nonprofit is my priority and to get my CPA license I need 1700 hours working under a licensed CPA. I work business hours (and some nights and weekends) at my current job. I don’t want to give up my current job voluntarily for an internship. I realize that it’s common for internships to be paid in the CPA world, but that’s normally under a full time basis or at least during normal business hours. That’s not the time frame I’d like to work. I don’t mind doing an unpaid internship in exchange for the CPA to allow me to get my hours under a flexible schedule for my licensing needs. Does anyone have any idea if there are any situations like this or is there an alternate solution I haven’t thought of? I think the right term for my reasons for seeking the CPA are “safety net” and “academic curiosity.”

    1. Tabby Baltimore*

      I’m not a CPA, so the only thing I can think of is to riff off a recent AAM posting about job boards: go on the Internet and look up the AICPA site and/or your state’s specific CPA society site to see if either of them have anything like a Q&A board to which you could post your question. Barring that, maybe there’s a phone number posted on one of the sites that you could try calling on Monday during lunch to ask for a referral to a knowledgeable CPA who could answer your question. If that doesn’t work, then the only other thing I can think of, with respect to finding someone who could tell you whether doing a flexible-hours internship is a possibility, is to call any of your local-area universities and contact either (1) the university’s internship coordinator (who might’ve run into this situation before with a student) or (2) the head of the accounting the department, who might not know the answer, but might be in a position to refer you to area companies he knows of who’ve been flexible in the past with meeting his students’ needs for flexible internship hours. It sounds like you’re taking a really smart approach here. Good luck!

  222. Anonsys*

    I know it’s late in the weekend for this but I hope someone is still reading. I’m struggling with an ethical dilemma: I teach English online, and when I started the company asked me to commit to 40 weeks (9 months) for each student and the class is the same time every week. I *really* don’t like the hours – I have 3 students and the schedule just ruins my weekend – 9:30-10pm friday, 6-7pm saturday, 8-9pm saturday and 9:30-10pm saturday. Saturday is especially brutal because I’m basically stuck from 6-10pm even though I’m only getting for half that time. I want to stick it out until September when all the classes end, but I’m just so tired. I’ve been been struggling with the idea of just resigning. I have a full time job totally unrelated to this and I won’t need a reference – plus they’re located in China so it’s not likely I’ll come across them again. But I made a commitment and now I’m backing out of it. Plus, I really like the kids I teach. But I’m exhausted. What would you do?

    1. Jessica*

      Is there any chance any of your students might be able to change their schedule, even slightly?

    2. CM*

      Just resign. Your company will be able to find a new teacher for your three students, and it doesn’t sound like it will have any negative effect on you. It’s not that much of an ethical dilemma — you feel guilty because you have a conscience and want to live up to your commitment, but people quit jobs.

  223. babblemouth*

    I hope there are still people reading this!

    I am getting very concerned about a colleague’s mental health. She has been unsatisfied with her job for a while, but in the past few weeks, comments that she made caused me great concern that she is on the verge of a burn-out/ getting depressed.
    I have been a sounding board for her, and tried to help her talk through her issues, but frankly this is getting beyond my skillset. Her boss is part of the problem, so hinting to him that he should be paying attention is a no-go.
    What could I do? Is there any way I am in a position to suggest to her talking to her doctor about this? Our company is big on mental health, and there would be no stigma attached to needing a break, but knowing her she wouldn’t be happy with this.
    I’m worried.

  224. Mr. Goldstein*

    Just out of curiosity has anyone ever received an angry e-mail from a rejected applicant telling them they were going to commit suicide as the result of that rejection and blaming the person who rejected them for their supposed upcoming suicide? I know things are bad for a lot of people out there, and many feel like they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel and coming up with nothing but seriously considering suicide because you couldn’t get a job at Walmart?

    1. Raven*

      What?!

      Please tell me that that’s a hypothetical and not something that’s actually happened/happening to you. If I were in that situation, I’d call the police and have them do a welfare check.

  225. Mr. Goldstein*

    I wish I could say it was hypothetical, but I have gotten actual e-mails and voicemails of an angry nature with people saying they were “going to kill themselves” and blaming me for it. It merely sounds like childish anger and frustration coming from people who are just now in their mid-late 30’s deciding to try and do something with their lives. They get tired of playing part time college student who can never seem to finish and get their degree, “homemaker” who sits home in an empty house doing nothing the majority of the time and “Internet Entrepreneur” where all that they do is join failed MLM after failed MLM and never achieve the level of success they were promised or envisioned themselves having when they signed up. One day shy of their 36th birthday, they decide it’s “time for a change” so they update their resume even though they haven’t actually worked in years and fill out a few applications. When the offers don’t come pouring in they get frustrated and angry and act like you and others who reject them are “vetoing their decision to do something positive with their life.” They don’t seem to understand that they are competing with people of various ages. Skill and experience levels who have actively been part of the workforce while they have been doing whatever else they’ve been doing and it’s hard to find work when you haven’t had an actual job since 1998. I get their frustration I really do, but you can’t expect people to roll out the red carpet for you and treat you like the “hottest free agent” when you have basically been sitting on the sidelines for years.

    1. Mr. Goldstein*

      I don’t take their threats seriously as not one has ever acted on them. They are just angry and/or want to make me feel guilty about not hiring them. In my experience, people who do commit suicide more often than not just go ahead and do it without threatening to do it or talking about it and more than half the time no one sees it coming. They may look back and notice signs that they missed previously, but most of the time it comes out of left field. These threats on the other hand have pretty much the same tone as when a child has a fight with their parents and threatens to harm or kill themselves. It’s usually just to guilt the parent and not really an indication that the child is actually going to act on their threats.

  226. Mr. Goldstein*

    Many of these people raise a lot of red flags with their lengthy absences from the traditional work force, shoddy work histories, unverifiable work experience and sudden desire to return to a field they’ve been absent from for years or enter another field where they have zero training, background or experience and act as though they are “owed” a position simply because they “want it.” It’s not that I don’t wish to help them, but many seem a bit flaky like after a while if they became bored with the job they’d likely quit without thinking anything of it.

    One woman screamed into my voicemail and blamed me personally for “impeding her planned triumphant return to the workforce.” As though me simply feeling she wasn’t right for a position requiring a fair bit more experience in a certain field as well as more training and certification than she appeared to have put the kibosh on her returning to the world of work.

  227. Jonathan T.*

    Someone who gives up so easily and allows one “no” to bring their job search to a screeching halt is likely not someone worth hiring anyway as it means any little thing could cause them to quit the job.

  228. Mr. Goldstein*

    Some of these people figuratively slit their own throats by not resisting the urge to tell me off. They applied for multiple positions but were rejected from only one. Perhaps they would have been better fits for one of the other positions they applied for had they simply held their tongues. I get the frustration, there were times when I wanted to tell people off or put my fist through a wall after being rejected from positions I felt I would be perfect for, but I didn’t. Instead, I went for a walk, took a couple of deep breaths cooled off and got on with my life. There was one occasion where a company rejected me for one position and then later called me about a new opening that they felt I would be a great fit for. I interviewed for it and got the job. I doubt that would have happened if I called the person who rejected me from the previous job and cursed them out.

  229. South Park*

    Do you have any idea why Jane isn’t responding to your emails unless your manager is cc’d?

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