open thread – May 19-20, 2017

by Alison Green on May 19, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

You may also like:
{ 1,623 comments }

{ 1,623 comments… read them below }

  1. MeoMeoMeo*

    Can anyone tell me how intermittent FMLA works? I submitted my claim this week for fibromyalgia and I am just wondering how it works if I am approved. Do I have to see my doctor every time I am out and have him approve when I go back? Or do I just notify my insurance company? I’m just curious about the logistics of it and don’t have anyone else to ask.

    1. Bad Candidate*

      You don’t need to see your doctor every time. Some people have intermittent FMLA for taking care of family members. You need to notify your boss you’re taking a FMLA day and however your company works as far as administering leave. For instance my company has a FMLA administrator and I call them. (Technically it’s “in house” but it happens to be a service my company offers) Once you get approved they should let you know the procedure.

      1. MeoMeoMeo*

        The doctor part was mostly what I was wondering about. My doctor is 2 hours away and I just couldnt imagine being able to see him every time I need an FMLA day.

    2. AlexandrinaVictoria*

      Your doctor will tell the insurance company how often you can be out of work – in my case, it’s two days per week. If I take a day off, I have to use PTO until that is used up, and then it is unpaid. I have to mark it on my timecard, even though I am exempt. My insurance company also has a website where I have to report time off, and they approve it. You don’t have to see the doctor every time you’re off. It’s usually good for a year, but my insurance company makes me “re-up” with my doctor at the 6 month mark.

      1. MeoMeoMeo*

        My doctor put 2 times a month for a duration of 2-3 days. In reality, I think I only need one time a month for 2-3 days, but he said he was over estimating on purpose. I don’t believe I have to use my PTO. We have unlimited vacation so I’m not sure what I would exhaust before FMLA kicked in under those circumstances. We also have paid FMLA so I don’t have to take my time unpaid regardless.

    3. Not my Circus, Not my Monkeys*

      Every company could have different procedures as some do it in house, others use a vendor. Make sure you read the paperwork they provide you. It should have the instructions to follow similar to what the other replies listed.

      1. MeoMeoMeo*

        They actually just sent me something a few minutes ago. I haven’t had a chance to read it yet.

    4. Fortitude Jones*

      I just put in for intermittent FMLA today (had a nervous breakdown at work yesterday after having my first counseling session with the EAP therapist Monday), and my supervisor, who also knew nothing about it, suggested I reach out to our HR department to ask about it. I did, and they said that I’d have to use PTO when I’m out and would have to let them know so they can input the time off on my timecard even though I’m exempt. Anyway, my supervisor thought the whole having to use PTO for doctors appointments was dumb because I usually schedule them towards the end of the day, so at most, I’m only gone for an hour and a half. She talked our HR department into letting me make up the time during the week (which she’s not going to monitor) instead. This is good because even though I have over two weeks of PTO accrued for the year, I’m going to ask my therapist about referrals for in-patient treatment, so I may need that whole two weeks to check in somewhere.

      My therapist has to fill out a form about my medical condition, how long my treatment is supposed to last, and things like that, and then fax it back to my HR department. Other than that, that’s all my company does for intermittent leave.

      1. MeoMeoMeo*

        Oh man. That sounds tough. I’m sorry you’re going through that. It sounds like you have a supportive manager which is great!

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          Thank you. I see you say you may not have to use PTO either during your time off, so that’ll be good if that turns out to be the case. I’m not familiar with how this works, I always thought my mom was just leaving when she took hers, but apparently it’s common to make people use PTO while on it. I just don’t see the point if it’s one or two days or even a couple hours a week.

          1. MeoMeoMeo*

            A lot of companies really like to nickel and dime their employees time. If it’s FMLA, I don’t see why you should have to use your PTO, but maybe there are logical reasons behind it that I’m missing. I’m lucky to work for such a good company. They really value their employees time. But even knowing that I am a little nervous about requesting time off in the future. We have unlimited vacation but I think I’m going to feel guilty requesting vacation time when I am also using FMLA time.

            My main reason for wanting the FMLA is that we get 8 sick days per year, which is generally pretty generous, but not quite enough for someone with fibromyalgia. I’m constantly depleting my sick days and I really stress whenever I have to call in sick. I just don’t want to feel stressed about it anymore.

            1. Hapless Bureaucrat*

              For our company, the policy is we use sick leave first, but it’s coded FMLA. Then we use unpaid time; our contracts don’t generally let us take any unpaid time unless we’ve used up our bank. They track FMLA sick time to differentiate our FMLA usage from “normal” sick time, both to see if we’re in line with the doctor’s estimates and so that the FMLA time doesn’t count against us for performance metrics or other performance management issues.
              I can understand where you want to save sick time for other illnesses; if HR hasn’t explained how they’d want you to handle it, they need to. The reality is you’d end up taking unpaid time if you go over 8 days whether it’s coded FMLA or not, right?

              1. MeoMeoMeo*

                Yeah, that totally makes sense to use your paid time first. I presume most people would want to do that anyway. I have never done this before so I wasn’t thinking of it that way.

            2. Fortitude Jones*

              My main reason for wanting the FMLA is that we get 8 sick days per year, which is generally pretty generous, but not quite enough for someone with fibromyalgia. I’m constantly depleting my sick days and I really stress whenever I have to call in sick. I just don’t want to feel stressed about it anymore.

              Yeah, that’s definitely not enough time for your condition and stressing certainly doesn’t help. We have a combined bank here – it’s times like these where I wish it was separate. 8 days would more than cover my time out without me having to “make up” time or use PTO.

              1. MeoMeoMeo*

                In the past I have always had jobs where vacation time and sick time were combined and found it pretty crummy. Especially once I had a child because it was a lot easier to use up those days. My current company is very generous. I can choose whether I use sick or vacation time for when my daughter is sick and the vacation bank basically up to the managers discretion, but I have never been told no. And we also get a few personal days as well.

                But my manager is very specific about how we log our time so even when use vacation for my daughters sick days I end up using all my actual sick days for myself.

            3. LCL*

              There isn’t any money associated with FMLA. it is a classification of your leave, to protect you. If you leave and your absence is part of approved FMLA, your company can’t fire you for it.
              Whether or not you get paid for FMLA time is completely up to your company. The act doesn’t require your company to pay you, only to not fire you for FMLA absence.
              I am hourly, and have used vacation, sick leave, personal holidays, and emergency day for FML so I would get paid. I could use comp, except I take my OT and never have comp on the books.

              1. MeoMeoMeo*

                Yeah, I realize FMLA is not typically paid but for some reason I wasn’t thinking about that. It makes a lot of sense to use your paid days first.

      3. MerciMe*

        That doesn’t sound right. I’m work week exempt and while they track my hours off against my Drs. note and total annual fmla accrual limit, my employer doesn’t charge the absence against my leave time. Seems like it kind of defeats the meaning of exempt if they don’t pay you the full day’s salary, so it might be worth a little research.

        1. Fortitude Jones*

          I would still get paid, but they’re saying it would have to come out of the PTO bucket.

    5. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      Where I last worked (I’m not familiar with the process at CurrentJob), your doctor filled out paperwork and it was submitted to HR. You didn’t have to do anything with insurance other than use it as you normally would when going to the doctor. To take a day off, you just notified your manager that you needed to use an “FMLA day” and the absence would be recorded. We did require that PTO be used until it was gone. Also, we would ask employees to re-certify (have their doctor confirm FMLA was still needed) every so often. I think 6 months, but it may have just been yearly. Also, FMLA covers 12 weeks or a total of 480 hours in a year, most likely your employer will track how much you use.

      1. MeoMeoMeo*

        From what I can tell, it looks like I log my time right in the system where I submitted my claim. They just don’t have any information in there about the rules and what determines whether its approved or not.

    6. fposte*

      The law limits how often the company can ask for the recertification, but it doesn’t require them to do so at all, so it’s mostly up to your company.

      The limits are, I believe, as follows: if the original certification is for over 30 days, they can’t require recertification until that time is up or 6 months, whichever comes earlier; if the original certification is for less than 30 days, the earliest they can ask for recertification is 30 days.

      1. MeoMeoMeo*

        Interesting. My doctor put the timeframe down as indeterminate. My company tries to make things as easy as possible on us so I am hoping itll be only once per year.

        1. HRChick*

          Ours only makes you renew once every rolling year. So, if you get approved in March, unless your doctor puts an end day, we’ll follow up with you next month.

          Make sure that’s how your HR department does it because some don’t use rolling years.

    7. Learning Grasshopper*

      I applied in December. I have always had migraines but they have increased significantly

      for my company, it is issued for 6 months, then you can request and file for extension.

      I have to use PTO UNLESS I have used what is allocated to date, then I can go unpaid.
      So if I get 21 days a year, and x days allocated per month, once I am in a negative, I can take as unpaid.
      Putting in for worst case scenario is smart. If you exceed what is agreed upon (submitted by your dr) you may have to get recertified

      We put in for 3 incidents per month, up to 3 days per incident. So I am basically covered for 9 days a month

      Being able to use I FMLA is a godsend! Not having the worry about getting fired removes so much pressure.

      Good luck!

      1. MeoMeoMeo*

        Exactly! I just want the pressure removed. I’m constantly worried about getting fired for being absent and I can’t help but feel like the stress only exacerbates a flare making me take even more time than I might need if I wasn’t stressed. I also have severe insomnia and some days I just don’t fall asleep until 3 or 4 am or at all. I really need to take a couple hours those mornings without losing a whole day.

    8. The OG Anonsie*

      How it works is that your doctor will have to do some paperwork (be aware that your insurance will likely not cover the visit to go through the paperwork, so often times rheum offices will have an NP or PA appointment type specifically for this that is a smaller charge) to say that, in their opinion, you need ___ amount of time away over ___ periods of time and also whether or not they believe you need to see them and get authorization to return to work for each of those absences. This can be for sick leave where you stay home or for time you need to go to appointments or receive treatments or whatever.

      When I had it, my doctor said I may need to be out of work as many as three days per month for issues related to my chronic illness. Typically I only needed one, but maybe once or twice a year I would have a really bad week and be out for several days. When I needed to take a sick day that was covered under this umbrella, I would just notify my manager that I was out on FMLA related leave and would mark it as such on my time sheet later as well. How your workplace wants this done by vary, but you don’t need to tell them why you need FMLA related leave when you take the days, and you do not need to notify anyone else including your doctor (unless your doctor made that part of the plan, but for fibro I doubt that would be the case).

      1. MeoMeoMeo*

        Thank you for all the details. I actually already had the form filled out by my doctor. They told me once they have that it only take 5 days to get a decision! I am really surprised. I thought it would be a longer process. I suppose they may deny it for some reason but it sounded like they just needed to see proof that I had a health condition that qualified for the intermittent leave. I guess I will just have to wait and see.

        My manager actually already knows about my fibromyalgia. I was missing too much work and I decided to tell her because the stress of wondering whether she thought I was just calling in for a sniffle was really getting to me. She has been good about it. She has not given me a hard time about taking a sick day once since I told her. But I am glad I don’t have to tell her the specific ailments I am experiencing when I take a day under FMLA. (Not that I had to before but sometimes I explain a bit because of the stress.)

  2. Commuter Blues*

    I’ve seen several posts on the site about job applications being rejected because of the employers worrying about long commutes. Well, on the opposite side of things, do you think it’s okay to leave a job mainly because the commute is too long?

    I recently got a new job with a longer commute than my previous one. Last job’s commute was about 20 minutes; new job’s is 35 min… but that’s without traffic. In the month I’ve been in this job, my hours put me right smack in the middle of rush hour and that commute is stretching to an hour and a half more often than not. I plan on asking my boss if I can change my hours. I think it’s likely she’ll say yes but I also want to prepare myself if she says no. I otherwise like my job but the commute is weighing on me way more than I thought it would. For financial reasons, I can’t move for the foreseeable future to be closer so that’s not an option.

    I feel like a commute should be a ‘turn on the radio and suck it up’ kind of thing but it’s driving me crazy to have lost half of my evening to being stuck in traffic. I eat dinner way later than I’d like and I don’t have time to do things I used to do in the evenings like exercise classes or volunteering; I just go home exhausted. Would I be crazy to give up a job for this one aspect of a job given how much it’s affecting me?

    1. Mobuy*

      Of course you can leave a job because of the commute! That’s totally normal (of course that’s why it’s not unheard of to reject a candidate because of where they live). It would be great to see if you can change your hours, though, if the driving time would be significantly different if you came in and left an hour earlier, say.

    2. OntheSpectrum*

      I’d say it depends on where you are. In Los Angeles, for example, where you drove and how long it took you get there is common small talk, and commutes are a huge part of people’s lives. So a manager in LA is likely to be understanding of wanting to change hours to avoid a worse commute. Elsewhere? I’m not sure.

      1. Natalie*

        I think pretty much anywhere is going to understand not wanting to drive 3 hours per day. With an 8-10 hours workday plus sleeping, you could be left with only 3 hours a day for literally everything else a person needs to do as part of life.

    3. Squeeble*

      Oh my gosh, it would be totally normal and understandable to have to quit because of the commute. I lived through five years of a nasty 90-minute commute each way, and when I got my new job that cut time in half, it really improved my overall quality of life.

      1. Whats In A Name*

        2nding this. I made the same switch (after only 3 years), from 90 minutes to 20. My 5:30 – 6:30 door-to-door turned into a 7:30 – 5:00 door to door. The impact it had on my overall happiness was mind-blowing – I was able to go back to the gym, join friends for weeknight dinners/happy hours and wasn’t chronically exhausted.
        .

    4. AnonEMoose*

      Just like, in an at will state, an employer can fire you for any reason (or no reason), provided it’s not discriminatory, you can also leave a job for any reason you want. And that you are, in essence, losing an extra 2 hours a day to traffic – I mean, I know a lot of people have it worse. But I don’t think it’s frivolous to decide that it’s a big deal to you. Different people have different views on this, and that’s completely ok.

      In the short term, would it help to do something like listen to a podcast or audio book during your commute? At least it might help you feel a bit less like that time is being totally wasted. But I hope your boss will be willing to work with you on this!

    5. starsaphire*

      It really is region-dependent, I think. In the Bay Area, honestly, if you mention a one-hour or so commute (each way), you’ll probably hear “Lucky!”

      You can ask, absolutely, for a schedule adjustment, but be prepared to hear no.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        An hour is normal for the Bay Area. The OP is doing 90 minutes. But that is also why flex hours are so normal in the Bay Area- so people who live in S San Jose can make it to Palo Alto in only 30 minutes, if they leave early/late enough, instead of 60-90 (120 in the rain…)

        1. Jadelyn*

          Yup – my mom works 7-4 so that she can get from Vallejo to Oakland without hitting too much rush hour traffic. My current job is the first time in my life that I’ve worked and lived in the same town – it still takes me about 15 minutes because I’m across town from my job, but it’s better than 45+ minutes each way!

        2. Mints*

          Huh, my friends in the bay who commute an hour tend to think that’s entirely too much, and are willing to change jobs / move to get that down. However I know tons of people buy houses in Morgan Hill / Gilroy and think that’s worth the three hours per day.

          Probably the #1 reason I was so miserable in my first job was the commute (90-120m). Anything else would have been easier to manage if I had had time to decompress in the evenings. So yeah, changing jobs because you’re miserable three hours a day is completely reasonable

          1. Jessesgirl72*

            You either need roommates or two really good incomes to be able to move closer to the jobs that are in Palo Alto/Mountain View. We could never afford to live closer than that 20-30 minutes that turned into an hour or more in rush hour. Some of that can be mitigated by very specific locations (live where you can take 280 instead of 101 from the north, 85 instead of 87 from the south, or best of all- Central Expressway- but most people have about an hour commute- the ones with families who want to live in Gilroy, more. We got a really good deal on a rental a block from the ocean in Pacifica, and took it because it was 45 minutes reverse commute, so it was ALWAYS only 45 minutes- and it was a cute house on the ocean for less than an apartment in Silicon Valley. And for a brief year, at the height of the dot bomb, apartment prices fell low enough that we could afford the edge of Sunnyvale that is almost Mountain View- a year only, because the owner decided rentals were too low and sold the townhouses as condos!

            Now we’re in Milwaukee and whine if we have to drive 20 minutes, when we used to routinely drive 30 just for dinner! LOL I still giggle because a “really bad traffic day” per the tv and radio announcers adds “as much as 15 extra minutes!” to a commute.

        3. Beckie*

          Yes, I know lots of people in the Bay Area who work 6-3 or 7-4 to avoid rush hour traffic. It can be the difference between 45 minutes one-way and 90 minutes one-way.

        4. Ama*

          I’m in NYC and half the people at my current employer work flex hours for commuting reasons here.

    6. Protein Muffin*

      Not crazy at all. I left a job in October for this reason. The job was right on the water and there was 1 main road so only 1 way in and 1 way out. Commute should have been no more than 35 minutes but same story as you…
      Also parking was an issue so I had to factor in long walks to and from my car.

      My time is really important to me and I’m now at a job with a parking lot and where the commute is very familiar and comfortable so I know there is rarely traffic and I know how quick I can get the heck home.

      It doesn’t bother some people, I know those that travel 1.5 hours each way daily! But it’s a waste of time for me and I try to only job search within a 20mile radius.

    7. anna green*

      It’s not crazy! Your commute is part of your work life, so it’s absolutely important to make sure it fits what you need. However, just be smart about it, just like any other job issue. If you are going to ask your boss to change your hours that’s a good first step. But don’t phrase it as, if you don’t agree I’ll quit, just see if its possible. If you want/need to leave, you need to think about how having such a short job would affect your resume, and if you find another job closer that you may like less is that a reasonable trade-off, etc. So treat it as any other work issue that is not great. But its totally a legitimate reason to not be happy at a job.

    8. MindoverMoneyChick*

      A commute is an absolutely valid reason to leave a job IMO. Happiness researchers have actually found that commutes are a negative experience we do NOT adapt to (most negative and positive things we do adapt to over a period of time.) It’s actually something human beings have a very hard time sucking up.

      I actually just finished doing a bunch of research for a seminar I was giving on how to use money to increase your happiness, and one of the weirdly specific things that came out of it was the using money to reduce your commute (getting a place close to work usually) resulted in a net increase in happiness. Seriously Google commutes and happiness, health, stress… anything like that and you’ll find a ton of info on this.

      1. MegaMoose, Esq*

        That is fascinating! I live in a metro area with pretty extensive suburbs but not insane housing prices either, and I am always curious about the choices people make in terms of where to live and where to work. My husband and I both adore our 20 minute commute and have postponed buying a house because I’m actively looking for work and we want to decide where to live based on where I end up working. On the other hand, I know people who pay less for a lot more out in the suburbs, but spend so much time driving that I feel like I would go mad. It sounds like the extra housing costs for shorter commute might translate to more happiness, in the grader scheme of things!

        1. Anon Anon*

          One of the reasons I stay at my current job is because of the 15-20 minute commute, and it’s why when I bought a new house last year, I made sure that I was still within a 15-20 minute commute. I’ve done 1 hour commutes each way, and I’d never do it again. It’s also why I stay in the city I live in versus moving to a city with more career opportunities.

        2. MindoverMoneyChick*

          The evidence seems to show the the bigger house/longer commute is a losing deal in terms of net happiness. Bigger houses are the types of things we adapt to emotionally and eventually take for granted while long commutes pretty much always annoy us. I’m in the DC area and we had to make the same decision. We went with a crappy house in need of all types of renovation to avoid the commute issue as much as possible. (I had a 20 minute reverse commute, which in this area is golden). My handy husband did the basics when we moved in and we saved for several years for a more substantial renovation. Totally worth it IMO, even though the house really was pretty crappy.

          Also I have good friends who has kept up apartment living well into their 40s so they can make sure to move for the husbands job when it changes (she works from home). They get lots of crap about how they should buy a house for financial security, which first of all, isn’t even necessary if you do the math and plan accordingly. But more importantly would have been a big drain on his time energy and mood over the years. Well worth it again IMO.

          1. MegaMoose, Esq*

            We are still renting in our mid-30s and I’m not remotely embarrassed about it (although our income and good luck in landlords does allow us to rent a small house rather than an apartment). I know more than one person around my age who lost a house or condo to foreclosure during the financial crisis, so I’m in no hurry to buy. Plus, I love that I don’t have to plan for emergencies – last year we had a couple of fairly expensive items needing to be repaired or replaced, and I’m quite happy to let the landlords cover it. And knowing we can easily move when I get a new job is a big thing I don’t have to worry about.

            1. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

              I’m in my 40s and renting, with no desire to buy a house. I’m not a DIYer, and I really like that if something major needs to be fixed or replaced, all I have to do is call maintenance and they take care of it. Case in point: On Monday morning this week, I woke up to find that our air conditioner (wall unit) was completely dead. I called maintenance to report it, and by the time I got home from work, they had installed a brand new (and much better) AC. To me, that’s worth more than any pride of homeownership.

              1. MindOverMoneyChick*

                Yay for renting in your 40s. I wish more people saw this as a viable option. Lots of my clients come to me all worried that they haven’t bought a house yet. But renting has so many benefits. I’m in a house and have mixed feeling about it. My husbands likes doing home maintenance stuff as a hobbie and likes owning so here we are. But whenever he grouses that I don’t help with yard work, I always say I voted for a condo. But we got the house, so you get the yard work ;).

                1. Bea W*

                  I live in the city. Half our housing stock is rentals. It’s a normal thing adults of all ages do.

                  I am glad I decided to buy though because rents are absolutely insane. My mortgage payment is a lot less than what I’d be paying in rent for also smaller place and also stable. I do live in a condo, but it’s only 3 units so it’s not hands off as much as a large complex with professional management and regular maintenance staff.

                2. AcademiaNut*

                  Also a mid-40s renter. Where we live, the housing prices are high enough, and so much higher than renting, that buying doesn’t make financial sense even if you have the money. And with two professional incomes, we couldn’t afford to live somewhere we’d like – we’d pay significantly more per month for a smaller apartment, have to buy a car for the commute, have to deal with all the maintenance issues, and would probably lose money on the deal when the market crashes.

                  And even buying, there are no single-family dwellings here at all, so we’d still be living in an apartment, but without the option of moving if we had obnoxious neighbours or major construction next door.

      2. JAM*

        Minus some major crisis happening in my life, my happiness is so much higher now that I live closer to my job. I commute about 10-15 minutes and can even go home over lunch if needed, which was a huge help for little things like a scheduled delivery or needing to throw food in the crock pot and was so incredibly needed during a time when my dog’s health was in decline. The extra hours at the beginning and end of each day make all the difference too. Even when I do nothing after work, it’s my choice to do nothing and that feeling of control is so worth it. I don’t know what I would do if I had to commute again.

        1. MechanicalPencil*

          This. The SO is looking to buy a place that would be a 40 train ride and probably an hour car ride from my job — one way. But it’s only 15-20 for him. I am not amused.

    9. Temperance*

      Last summer, SEPTA magically discovered cracks in a bunch of their trains and lost like 2/3 of their cars. Because of that, my commute literally tripled.

      I was miserable. I lost my entire summer to commuting. I spent 3 hrs/day, every day, getting to and from work.

      So, yeah, I don’t think changing jobs for a shorter commute is unreasonable at all.

      2. AP*

        It was truly miserable. I already commute one hour each way on regional rail, and the added stress of overcrowded, cancel trains and the general anxiety of it was just awful.

      3. Jules the First*

        Transport for London put the wrong wheels on a whole bunch of Piccadilly line trains (they spec’d indoor-only wheels, forgetting that a third of the line is above-ground) last year, so trains were running at 20-minute intervals instead of 2-minute intervals for four months while they replaced them all urgently…can we say oops!

    10. Amy*

      I don’t think it’s crazy to consider an hour and a half long commute to be a dealbreaker (and traffic at your commute time definitely counts as part of your commute!). That’s a lot of time to be spending in the car. If you and your manager can work it out, that would be great, but if not I’d probably start looking around for alternatives.

    11. Ang the SA*

      I would definitely ask if you can change your hours. My are 7:30 to 4:30 and it makes a world of difference. I leave my house at 6:30 and am at work by 7. There is barely any traffic and I usually bring book, call a friend or put in a podcast before going into work. I am not stressed about my commute because it is 30 minutes when it use to be almost 1 hour to 2 hours if traffic is bad.
      I don’t know if I would leave a job over it until I work out every single way to make it better. That said if you are dreading getting in your car and it is starting to effect your work, yes I would find another job. My health and well being isn’t worth being miserable.

    12. Millie*

      Commuting isn’t for everyone and it DOES affect your life and ability to get things done. I have had a varying commute over the past few years ranging between 3 hours to 6 hours all together daily. I get very little done at home and in a way it also ruins your weekends because you have a million chores to finish and all your friends and family who you want to give your attention to. I don’t think there’s any reason to think it’s a bad reason to quit. It’s a quality of life issue. But definitely ask about changing hours, and does your job have any possibility for telecommute? I am only allowed to telecommute about one day a month but honestly it does make a difference knowing you’ll get done at 5 and already home.

    13. NJ Anon*

      Part of the reason I am leaving my job is the looooong commute. I am able to adjust my hours somewhat but it’s still too long. But there are other issues as well, the commute just adds to it.

    14. Anxa*

      You can see in another post that I just gave up a full-time job in PART because a pretty reasonable commute. There were a lot of other factors, and for me the commute is less about “traffic sucks” and more about “how the eff can this carpool work” because I share a car. And it was a short-term job and I cannot risk a car loan for something like that.

    15. Not my Circus, Not my Monkeys*

      Definitely ask about the hours first, but could you change your workout location and volunteer activities to be closer to work so at least a few days a week you don’t have to fight as long of a battle? Visiting the gym and then taking the commute could put you past the worst of it. Would they let you work from home a day or two a week instead?

    16. Rachel in NYC*

      This is hard for me since as you can tell I live in NYC and an hour commute is pretty normal. But I understand your position- I love my job (I’ve been here close to 3 years) but its basically an hour each way by transit. My solution was this year I would look seriously at moving closer. I’m currently looking at an apartment that would only be a 45 minute walk from my office (less then 30 minutes by transit.) And it isn’t the first time I’ve moved to shorten my commute. When I worked in Boston, I initially lived in the suburbs but the commute drove me crazy and after about 6 months, I moved into the city.

      My suggestion would be if you enjoy your job, consider seriously whether moving is a possibility. It’s definitely a large expense but there’s a lifestyle that comes with a short commute.

      1. LadyKelvin*

        I also think commuting on transit is very different than commuting by car. I would have no problem with an hour metro/bus ride but I am not willing to drive more than 30 mins. Sitting in traffic and not being able to use that time productively is maddening. Thankfully now I have a 25 min no traffic commute. I’m at work before I even notice I’m driving.

        1. Tedious Cat*

          Oh, it really is different, assuming the transit is reliable. Technically my new commute is longer than my old one, but since it’s by train instead of car, I’m happier and calmer (I have issues with road rage).

    17. Princess Carolyn*

      I agree with everyone who says leaving a job because of the commute is reasonable, and I agree that changing your hours is a good place to start before you decide to quit.

      Another suggestion: Is it possible for you to do some of your post-work activities (working out, possibly volunteering or running errands) in the neighborhood around your office so that you can postpone your drive until after rush hour? It’s probably not a true solution, but it may make things more tolerable until you find a different job or adjust your hours or whatever.

      1. Cookie*

        While I can’t speak for the OP, I’m in a similar situation and I can’t do anything after work in the area because my work is located in a desolate wasteland (which is the reason I refuse to move out there). If it was possible to have a life in this area, I would’ve moved here already and wouldn’t have a commuting issue. Not that this is true for everyone, but I imagine isolated offices in horrible neighborhoods are a big part of why people commute.

      2. Commuter Blues*

        My job is out in the middle of nowhere. I have to drive 10 min to get food if I don’t bring lunch with me, so there’s defintely nothing to occupy my time before jumping into the drive home.

    18. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      Like some other people mentioned, in certain areas, people may be more willing to be flexible than others. I live outside DC so if it takes me less than an hour to get home, I’m jazzed. I’m sure if I lived somewhere where commutes were 15 minutes, I could better ask for this accommodation but around here, it’s not so unusual that people might not be as flexible. If you do decide to change your hours, you may want to try it out as sometimes if I have to get work early, the traffic is worse so you may never be able to find a good time unless your hours at like 3 pm to 11 pm instead of 9 to 5.

    19. Stephanie*

      Long commutes are one of those things you don’t realize are exhausting until you stop doing them. Totally valid.

      1. Audiophile*

        This is very true.

        While I used to commute 45-50 minutes by car, I found it really draining. My commute is now about 90 minutes, but I’m taking the train and then a subway, somehow it doesn’t feel as long. I don’t mind it at the moment, though I may feel differently come the winter time.

        1. Stephanie*

          I think my tolerance for a train commute is higher. What can be frustrating with train commutes is that if there’s a service interruption…suddenly your commute becomes three hours.

          1. Audiophile*

            The other day there was a disruption because someone hit a fence and killed the third rail at another station. We were single tracking for that station.

            I’m on a Metro North line that tends to not have a lot of disruptions, I think if I was on the LIRR,I’d feel differently.

            1. Lady Bug*

              As a former LIRRer I can confirm my hour to and a half drive is much calmer than my 2 years of constant delays and being stranded in the middle of nowhere by the LIRR

              1. Audiophile*

                I was in Penn last night with a friend who explained to me how she commutes regularly to Jamaica from the Oyster Bay line. It sounded horrible. She was trying to tell me I should move to Long Island, just not anywhere on the Oyster Bay line.

    20. Project Manager*

      I’m trying to convince my husband to look for a new job, and one of the reasons is that his commute is awful even for Houston. (My thirty-minute commute, plus a little extra time to drop the baby at daycare, is excellent around here.) It not only affects him but also the rest of us – the kids and I don’t get to see him, and I have to do all the dinner, bath, etc. evening work by myself, which makes me feel resentful even though it’s not his fault. Plus, neither of us can exercise (the baby hasn’t learned to stop climbing on the exercise equipment, so I can’t, and he is too exhausted when he gets home). I would say commute is absolutely a valid reason to change jobs.

      1. JuniorMinion*

        Funny. I’m in Houston and I commute 30-40 minutes to go 8 miles (through a really bad highway transition that I am sure you can guess:) and I constantly think of moving. My husband teases me sometimes and I’m just like “yeah this is a hill I die on.” Having worked crazy long hours before it can be amazing how much difference even an extra 30 minutes – 1 hour makes a day. I’m just straight up not doing those crazy suburb commutes that some folks do and I will live in a townhome / small house forever if it means I don’t have to do that.

    21. Anonymous Poster*

      This is a normal reason to transition out of a job. It’s easy enough to answer the question in an interview of, “Why are you leaving?” with “My commute was becoming too long and I’m looking for an opportunity where I can grow more professionally and have a shorter commute,” or however you’d want to massage that.

      I left a job because I was far away from family and wanted to move closer, and it was a pretty acceptable reason. Well, correction, of my 7 bosses (I was a government subcontractor), 5 of them understood the reason and said it made complete sense, and the other 2 thought I was giving up an opportunity of a lifetime. Yeah, I was paid below the 25th percentile for my engineering degree, the work was fun but I have student loans to repay.

    22. Gordon Greene*

      Think of it this way: If your commute is an extra hour each way, then in a given week, you are spending 10 extra hours just commuting. In a four-week month (and obviously, most months are longer), that’s an extra 40 hours per month. If you are working a 40 hour per week job, that’s like working an entire extra week per month. Now, obviously, you must have some commute, so I’m just talking about the incremental increase. This is a long way of saying yes, it can make sense to change jobs because of the commute, especially if the commute is taking you away from family or hobbies that you value. Of course, this all assumes that you have options that are closer to home.

    23. Manders*

      Totally normal to quit a job over a bad commute. I live in a city where some of the biggest employers run their own private bus systems because commutes can be so rough on their employees–it’s pretty much the expectation around here that people care a lot about the time of their commute and factor it into their job choices.

      It doesn’t hurt to ask for flexible hours, though, because you have a decent chance of getting them if rush hour is that rough in your area.

    24. CatCat*

      I’ve left a job over the commute. I couldn’t stand being in my car 45 mins – 1 hour each way. I wouldn’t mind a commute that long on a train or bus (reading time and meditation time!) or riding my bike (exercise!), but in a car… it just felt like my life was being sucked away.

    25. TotesMaGoats*

      One of the big reasons, not the biggest though, that I left OldJob was my commute. It was a solid hour and 15 on a good day. And it shouldn’t be. 40 minutes and I would’ve been fine. As it was, I was doing back roads and coming in early to leave at 4:30 bc later would’ve been even worse. NewJob is between 30-40 most days each way. And going from suburbs to city. Makes sense. I’ve gotten back so much time with my family. OlderJob was 20 max which spoiled me majorly.

    26. Drew*

      Four and a half years ago, I moved into a house that I was hoping to make a “rent to own.” I doubled my commute in the process, from 15 minutes to half an hour.

      Four and a half years later, I’ve just bought a house across town because the half-hour commute has turned into 45 minutes or more at rush hour, as everyone now uses the out-of-the-way freeway I was counting on as my secret commute weapon. Argh. My commute is now 20 minutes or less if I avoid rush hour, and usually no more than 30 minutes even with traffic and an accident or two. Plus, this house is WAY nicer.

      IMO, yes, it’s totally valid to decide a commute isn’t a cost you’re willing to pay to keep a job. But I echo several other people: talk to your bosses and see if you can flex your start/end times.

    27. SomeoneLikeAnon*

      My husband and I are moving completely to change our commute. Right now our commute is 45 minutes in the AM and anywhere from 65 -100 mins in the evening. While we though we were being smart by moving an extra 15 minutes out of the commute at the time (and saving a ton in rent/etc) after 3+ years of it, we’re done. We have nearly no social life and like others have mentioned our weekends are packed with chores we can’t get done on the weekdays. I don’t even have that bad of a commute compared to others, but it just isn’t working out anymore.

      I completely understand wanting to change jobs for the commute!!

    28. Anonymousaurus Rex*

      I left a job I absolutely LOVED over (mostly) a long commute. Commuting can be really draining and make you feel like you’re working extra long hours. My current commute is 2 miles by bike each way, and even though the job is much less fun, my quality of life is 1000x better.

      1. Commuter Blues*

        The job I left with a 20 min commute was miserable, completely terrible job and place and coworkers that was not worth the quick commute. So now I’m in a much better job but the longer commute is what’s dragging me down. I can’t seem to win!

    29. Becca*

      You are NOT crazy!!! Losing out on almost 13% of your day because of traffic is a perfectly good reason to be dissatisfied. Your life shouldn’t be all work and driving and sleeping— you need some you time!!

      My husband hates driving, and so he’s pretty much committed to living within a 20-minute drive of wherever he works. But he’s a high school teacher, so rush hour hardly impacts him. (Certainly not at 6:45 am…). For people dealing with rush hour, however… Well, I can’t imagine dealing with that for weeks and months on end. See if you can change your schedule, and if not, resume the hunt. Good luck!

    30. BF50*

      I work 7:45-4:45 just to drop my commute from 40 minutes to 25. It’s absolutely reasonable. You might also see if you could work remotely one day a week.

      I have turned a job down over a 45 minute commute which got me some judgement from the hiring manager, but there is a big difference between 45 and 90 minutes.

      The only thing is, some hiring managers may question you for not realizing the length of the commute before actually taking the job. I know generally how long it will take me to get to most parts of the metro area in rush hour, so commute would come up at the outset.

    31. Bea W*

      Commute can be a big deal. That’s 2-3 hours of your day just sitting in the car, mostly going nowhere fast. I used to have a 45-60 min commute in traffic. I sucked it up and accepted that as normal. It’s what everyone does. Then I moved and my commute was 30 minutes on accepted less awful route, and then I realized almost immediately how stressful the longer crappie commute was. I had just never known accepted another nylon different. Then I took a job that was easily accessible by subway. I didn’t have to drive at all. It was 45 min but I wasn’t sitting in traffic, and I wasn’t worried about repairs or gas or shoveling out a spot in the snow and potentially losing it later.

      It’s a quality of life issue for me. I did turn down a job that would have been a 90 minute commute in rush hour, and not accessible by any acceslternative method other than cab or rental if my car was in the shop. I tried to convince myself I should suck it up, but nope, not voluntarily doing that to myself if there alternative other options. Not worth any amount of money. That’s 3-4 hours of my day I can’t get back, and I’m not a morning person either. Having to leave around 7 AM was not going to work.

    32. Windchime*

      I changed jobs in October and went from a 20 minute commute (each way) to a 60-75 minute commute (again, each way). I drove to work on the 20 minute commute but I take the bus or train for my current job. The first couple of months were the absolute worst; like you, I was exhausted all the time and felt like I had no life. It takes awhile to get used to a longer commute. I have to say that it’s not as bad as I thought it would be; since I’m on the bus, I can nap or read my book or look at my phone. I’m in the Seattle area and there is no way I could drive from my house to work; it would take easily twice as long because I wouldn’t be able to take the carpool lane like the bus can.

      I would say, give it a little more time. Maybe look into a carpool if that’s an option? But if it just feels like it’s not going to work, then I think that a long commute is a perfectly fine reason to start looking for something closer to home.

  3. Cambridge Comma*

    Similar but very different story of a boss telling the whole team that they would be laid of: I used to work for an arts/culture non-profit at a regional centre. After I left, a colleague became the director when the old one retired. He was a devious so and so, but he inherited a bright and dedicated team. So a few months after he started, he told the whole team that they should start job hunting because their performance was so bad that the centre would be closed and they would lose their jobs. So, they all immediately started job searching. In the country where the centre is, you can only resign on the last working day of the month. So the final day of that month, all of them handed in their notice. They were all well qualified and talented and had been being paid below market rate. As there was 0% employment in the country at the time, they had all found better jobs. He was flabbergasted. He had invented the whole thing as a motivational tool. He thought they would suddenly work much harder, but was too stupid to see they were already giving 110%. None of them complained to the parent organization so he spun it that they were only interested in the money, they bought it apparently as he’s still there are retires soon.

      1. Sabine the Very Mean*

        hahah okay okay…that’s the first I’ve heard what the line in “Veep” was really supposed to be. “Hoisted by our own **tard”.

    4. justsomeone*

      What an idiot! Those poor people – I hope they all made a lot more money working elsewhere.

  4. Cordelia Chase*

    I have been at my first post grad job for over 2.5 years and it is a very small office (10 or less people). When I signed on I was trained by the person who I was replacing. He quit without a job lined up. He interviewed, helped hire, and trained me for 3 months. This is unfortunately the norm at this particular place.

    I was asked to and also am expected to do the same… or at least give them much more than 2 weeks notice. Ideally they said I would let them know when I start looking so I can help them get a replacement and train them.

    So my dilemma is… how should I go about leaving? They said that they would notice if I started taking time off for job interviews since the office is so small, so they would rather me be honest with them. Since the office is tiny and I wear a couple different hats, I really would be hurting them if I only gave them two weeks notice. I would also burn some serious (well connected) bridges that I would like to use in the future.

    I have about a years worth of savings saved up because I knew this time would come. I live with my SO who is willing to help, but can’t take on both of our expenses on their own for a long period of time. My plan is: start applying to places and when I get a few positive bites for interviews, break the news to Boss, help them get squared away, hopefully have a job by time I leave, or take a giant leap of faith and be unemployed. Is this insane? I feel stressed and stuck. I am pretty unhappy.

    1. Sadsack*

      I think it would be difficult to ask a new employer to let you push your start date out 3 months. I think I’d do as you suggested and start looking without telling them. Are they just going to fire you if they find out? Doesn’t sound like it as they would be left in a bad position if they tell you to leave immediately.

      1. Frozen Ginger*

        I’d say it depends on the employer/industry. In companies where they interview colleges hires in October for a June start-date, you might be able to swing it.

    2. Emmie*

      Their request is quite unrealistic. It is very unfair that they’re putting you in this predicament where it could jeopardize your connections and references. I would apply and interview for jobs now. When I received an offer, I’d negotiate a start date one month out to give me a month at my current job to train someone. You can also create process documents now for regular tasks to give to whomever takes over. (It’s also realistic to give a standard two week notice if that works for you. It is ridiculous to expect a person leaving to stay three months, and then job search while unemployed.)

      1. Rachel in NYC*

        I really like this as a solution. And you can prep in advance without it looking like your quitting (we’re in process of creating a true SOP at my job now not because either of us are planning to leave but because we’ve created or re-created so much and there was never an onboarding packet for someone new to this area of work).

        1. Emmie*

          I usually do this for every job that I’m in mostly because I wish someone had done it for me. A person can also do this under the guise of “if I got hit by a bus,” or my preference “if I somehow figure out how to grow money trees.”

          1. Jadelyn*

            Our usual phrase is “if we all won the lottery tomorrow”, but same deal. I just had to do some serious documentation for my job so that I could take a week off without it all going to shit, and now I’m thinking about setting us up with a team wiki so we can all do stuff like that.

    3. Longtime Lurker*

      It’s not insane but you are not working in your own best interests. Quitting a job and being unemployed because your boss wants more than the two weeks notice seems really off to me. Don’t do that. You don’t owe them that much. Do it the standard way: research, interview, get solid offer, resign. You may be able to negotiate with your new employer a start date which may allow you to stay at your other employer longer than the two weeks’ notice. Best of luck to you.

      1. Amber T*

        This. As Emmie said above, make various documents and training guides on everything you do (during work hours, not on your own free time). You know what would be best for your employer? That you never leave. But that’s not what’s best for you, and that’s not practical. Same with expecting 3 months notice. Not practical, and not best for you. Make the transition as smooth as possible, and like LL said above, try to negotiate with a new employer for a later start date (though I would not go beyond 4 weeks), but don’t become unemployed for the sake of your old company, because that’s what’s “best” for them.

    4. Amy*

      I definitely understand places wanting more than 2 weeks notice, and assuming they don’t have a history of screwing over their employees when they give notice, I think it’s good to give more notice than that. But asking for 3+ MONTHS notice is pretty out there for your employer to expect.

      Apply for jobs. Many will be fine with you setting a start date a month out from when you’re hired (they know you need to give notice, and it’s pretty common to want either a longer notice period or a couple weeks to recharge between jobs), so you’ll probably be able to wait until you’re negotiating an offer and give about a month’s notice then. I think that’s enough time to hand off most things–especially if you take the time now to note what you do and how you do it, so there’s easy reference material to hand off to someone else.

      And if their management is so bad that they really can’t handle someone leaving even with a month’s notice, that’s on them! They should have the ability to cover people leaving, whether it’s for a new job or a medical issue or whatever.

    5. Princess Carolyn*

      It is weird that they said they’d notice if you started taking time off for job interviews. Assuming this is at-will employment, you have no legal obligation to give notice at all, and no ethical/politeness obligation to give more than, like, four weeks’ notice. It’s unlikely that your new job would let you postpone your start date any longer than that, though of course it will depend on a number of factors.

      They wouldn’t give you three months’ notice if they were going to fire you or lay you off, would they? So you don’t really owe them the same courtesy. It’s an unreasonable request.

    6. Inspector Spacetime*

      Definitely don’t leave before you have another job lined up.

      If you think they can be trusted to not harass you and push you out if you tell them you’re looking before you actually get a job, then go for it. If you don’t, don’t tell them until you get a job. You can give the standard two weeks or longer depending on what your new job will allow. Definitely don’t go without work for an unknown amount of time just because you don’t want to inconvenience your current job! Having professional courtesy is one thing, but that is going way too far.

    7. fposte*

      A slightly different viewpoint: it’s pretty common in academics to give this kind of notice, and it works out okay. I think your plan seems like a reasonable way to approach it.

    8. Happy Lurker*

      Cordelia – I think your plan has merit. You work for a crazy place, but you want/need their reference. Do their dance, on your terms. Brush off your resume, chat with a headhunter. Roll it all around in your mind for a week or two. Maybe by then you will have a couple interviews lined up and then sit down with your boss.

      You don’t owe them any more than the two weeks, but they asked and you really don’t want to be unemployed (I don’t think from your letter). If they make your life hell after giving notice, then just leave. You then know you did what they asked and you tried your best.

      Good luck!

    9. Rachel in NYC*

      One idea if you trust your boss(es), is to say to them: Hey, as you know, I’ve been here for X long and I think its time for me to move on to my next opportunity. I know you guys really want me to what Jimbo did (interviewing/hiring/training) and I’m happy to do that, but for that to be a real option, I would need your guarantee that I would still have my job here until I find a new position while I’m available to your new hire. (And you can ever suggest perhaps a project that’s always on the back burner that you could work on during that period.)

    11. DecorativeCacti*

      I work 8-4:30 with a 30 minute lunch.

      I always thought the song “9-5” by Dolly Parton was completely ridiculous because she is complaining about having an eight hour shift but she’s not even working a full eight hours with lunch!

    12. Cordelia Chase*

      Thanks for the replies everyone, it helps put things in perspective. Preparing a packet of my duties is a great idea!

      I also want to add that when they said this to my face, that ideally I could let them know when I’m job hunting and could find/train my replacement, I said that I would do my best and try to give as much notice as I could. I also said that we could set up something on weekends if needed. They didn’t bat an eye at that so I am hoping they didn’t take that to mean I would go along with the plan, but more as an “I’ll try to help you out as much as I can within reason.”

      Also, they will not fire me if they find out I’m looking, but I am worried about burning bridges with them by giving only one months notice. Everyone’s advice was really helpful and has given me something to think about. Thanks all and happy Friday!

      1. Natalie*

        For whatever it’s worth, I discourage you from working at your old job on weekends after you get a new job. New jobs are hard and tiring, and assuming it’s full time you are going to need your weekends to recharge and handle other stuff in your life.

        This organization is going to be 0kay without you. If they tank your reference because you wouldn’t given three months notice or keep working there after you quit, they are effing bananas and you frankly couldn’t trust them to not renege on a good reference for some other dumb reason.

  5. NJ Anon*

    I am interviewing and dreading the “weakness” question. I am trying to frame it that at this point in my career I have identified my weaknesses and done things to improve on them and then explain those things. So far that seems to work.

    Also, I am looking for a job with less stress. How do I frame that in a cover letter/interview?

    Thanks! and Happy Friday!

    1. Hey Anonny*

      For asking about stress, I would ask in interview what kind of pace/hours are typically worked. If they say they stay late in the office every day to get things done, that would seem like a high stress environment to me.

      Then again it can vary depending on who you talk to. If you asked coworkers at my previous job, they’d say things were very low stress… But that’s because I was dumped with all the worst projects to work on so my job was super high stress! :P

      Good luck with the search!

      1. nonegiven*

        My mom went to a job that the other employees warned would be high stress. After she was working for a while she laughed, ‘high stress,’ this is nothing compared to [job she left.]

    2. Anon16*

      You can also ask about the expectations for employees and decide if that’s the type of thing that will cause you stress. Or deadlines or cultural fit (are employees expected to work beyond 40 hours a week?). What causes you stress at a job? Maybe if you’re able to determine what it is exactly, you can ask about that, rather than stress level.

    3. michelenyc*

      I used to dread the weakness question but have realized it’s not so bad. Mine is that I am very direct in all of my communication and if you don’t know me I come across as short and a little a snippy. What I have found is almost 90% of my most recent interviewers have said I have the same problem.

    4. Iris Eyes*

      For the weakness question in my most recent interview I said that I didn’t always listen to my own good advice. The interviewer liked the answer. I was quite impressed with it myself. YMMV

      As far as the stress, maybe stressing the health aspect, I’d read that as taking responsibility rather than looking for something easier/lazy.

    5. LSP*

      If you’re looking for less stress, I’d ask about work/life balance in the interview.

      I’m not sure I’d add it to a cover letter, though. It could too easily be taken as “doesn’t want to work hard,” when what you really mean is “I don’t want to kill myself with work.”

      1. NJ Anon*

        It’s really more about stepping away from some of the responsibilities of my current position which cause stress although it could just be this particular workplace.

    6. Ama*

      I have framed it before as “looking for a a position with an emphasis on proactive project management.” But my stress level was driven by a workplace that operated at crisis, last minute emergency levels 80% of the time. I have also used “looking for a job focused on [area]” when trying to get away from a catch all general admin job.

      In an interview, if asked about the proactive thing I would explain that my current job was largely based in reactive tasks and as someone who thrives on advance planning I was looking for something with a higher proportion of proactive projects. It worked extremely well in getting me my current position (which really does require an ability to plan a year or even 18 months in advance to really execute well).

      Basically decide what you want in your new position that would reduce your stress and figure out how to describe how that differs from your old position that at least sounds like “your job is a better environmental fit for me” and not “I need out of here because these people think dropping a $5,000 advance request on Friday afternoon for a trip they are leaving on Sunday morning is reasonable.”

  6. Hey Anonny*

    For those with a full-time hourly job, how does lunch factor into your hours? My last job was eight hours 8:30-4:30 but an hour lunch was included in that so it was seven working hours. Current job requires eight working hours and lunch is not included, so if you’re 8:30-4:30 and take half hour lunch, now you’re leaving at 5. How does it work with yours?

    1. Jan Levinson*

      I work 7:30-4:30 with an hour lunch. So, I’m technically only working (and getting paid) for 8 hours, even though I’m there for 9 hours.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        That’s how most of my office jobs have been. At Exjob, my boss let me squish my hours down to 8:30-4:30 and work through what would be my lunch hour (Missouri doesn’t require you to take a break, and I did eat) to avoid the worst of the rush hour traffic. I had to drive across town to get to work, and while it wasn’t a very long commute, it was a really aggravating one and was stressing me out.

        1. Jan Levinson*

          Oh, man. I live in Missouri, too, and didn’t even realize the state doesn’t require you to take a break.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            It’s at the employer’s discretion; I’ve never had one that didn’t give you at least a half hour for lunch, and usually two ten or fifteen-minute breaks.

    2. LizB*

      I work four 9-hour days and one 4-hour day each week. I take a half-hour unpaid lunch on the 9-hour days, so technically I’m at work 9.5 hours (e.g. 9-6:30, with half an hour clocked out for lunch whenever I have time/feel hungry). I don’t take a lunch on my 4-hour day.

    3. lcsa99*

      Mine works just like your last one. 8:30 to 4:30 an included lunch hour so only technically working 7 hours (though I usually come in around 8, since I have to keep track of the time everyone comes in and that just makes it easier).

      I don’t know what I am gonna do if I ever have to go back to actually working 8 hours cause this is great.

    4. Variations on a theme*

      I’m just… here… as long as necessary, and pretty “on” to notifications and emails while I’m home.

      That utter lack of work/life balance means I get in around 8am, leave at around 5pm, and take as long a lunch as I feel like (though it’s usually 45 minutes or so).

      1. Bilbiovore*

        oh, this is me. flexible hours and 176 hours of vacation and no work/life balance. On the other hand, I am one of the fortunate few that loves their work in a field that is highly competitive. Lunch- bring it. at my desk. reading AAM.

    5. YarnOwl*

      When I started the job I’m at now, I worked from 8:00 to 4:30 with an hour lunch, because they just required 7.5 hour work days (which is kind of weird and I don’t know how normal it is, but that’s what they do).
      When the new overtime law was going to go into effect, I was below the threshold for exempt employees and so I was switched to hourly. Now I work the same hours but take a half hour lunch break and get paid a bit more since my hourly rate was based on 7.5 hour work days and I work 8 hour days. I usually go to lunch with a friend at least once a week and take a longer break, and so on Fridays I usually just come in a bit early to make up the hours.

    6. straws*

      I work 8-4 with an included lunch. We typically say 30 minutes, but no one bats an eye if you bump up to an hour as long as work is done.

    7. Gaia*

      I am not hourly but my team is. Their schedule will be something like 8:30 – 5pm and half an hour of that is their lunch so they are paid for 8 hours a day.

    8. krysb*

      When I was FT hourly, I worked 8 – 5 with a lunch. At my current job, I let my employees take lunch on the clock, since hourly workers are such minority here.

    9. Bad Candidate*

      I work 7-3:30 with a 45 minute lunch. A half hour is unpaid and a 15 minute break, which I could take separately if I wanted to, is paid.

    10. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I work 8:30am-5:30pm and get an hour-long lunch (which is unpaid), so I’m still working a full eight hours.

    13. Mona Lisa*

      When I started I go to pick whether I wanted a 30 or 60 minute lunch, and my schedule was adjusted accordingly. I work 8-4:30 most days with a 30 minute lunch included in there. If I’d chosen to take the 60 minute lunch, I would be working until 5 instead.

    14. Susan*

      I get a 30-minute paid lunch, but the deal with the paid lunch is that we don’t have a set lunch time — we have to take our lunch break as time permits, and if something comes up in the middle of our lunch break, we have to go back to work and finish the lunch break later.

    15. Callalily*

      My job is a 9-5 job where it is optional to leave for lunch. I opt to stay at my desk and take 15 minutes to eat so that I get a full 8 hour paycheque – to my boss this is the same as taking a coffee break. If I leave for an hour I have to dock that from my timesheet but I can choose to stay late to get the hour back if I wanted.

    16. over educated*

      It is unclear and variable at my workplace. My boss says our half our lunch is unpaid, so I work 8.5 hours most days, but another supervisor at his level in our division says we are supposed to get a half hour unpaid lunch and 2 15-minute breaks, so she and all of her employees work 8 hours, combine the 2 “breaks” into a 30 minute paid lunch, and just don’t take the unpaid lunch. It definitely annoys me sometimes to work more than most of my colleagues, especially since the people working 9 hour days to get every other Friday off are only in the office half an hour longer than I am. But I don’t want to go to HR to clarify because I don’t want to ruin it for everyone else if the other supervisor is wrong.

    17. J*

      Lunch is not included in my working time. My general hours are 8:30-5:00 with a half hour lunch, but I have some flexibility. I usually come in 5-15 minutes early and used that banked time to leave between 4 and 4:30 on Fridays. If I wanted, I could work 8-5 or 8:30-5:30 with a longer lunch.

    18. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I am paid by the tenth of an hour and am required by state law to take a half hour unpaid break if I work 8 hours or more. I often work 7.9 hours (7 hours 54 minutes) so I can go home earlier, unless I know I can clock at least 8.5 or 9 hours, as otherwise it isn’t really worth it. I also get a paid 15 minute break for every four hours worked, so when I work 8 hours I usually tack one or both paid break onto lunch.

    19. Nan*

      I’m not hourly, but my staff is. They have 8 hours of working time (which includes 2 15 minute paid breaks) and a half hour unpaid lunch. So they are here 8.5 hours a day, with 7.5 hours of productive time. 8.5 hours here minus 2 breaks and lunch.

    20. Jadelyn*

      Ours is 8 working hours +lunch, and you can choose to do a half hour or full hour lunch, as you prefer. I do half an hour because I’d rather get to sleep a little later without having to stay late in the evening, so I work 8:30-5 with a half hour lunch.

    21. JAM*

      My government jobs were 8-5 with a 1 hour off the clock lunch planned for hourly employees (8 hour days). In the private sector I do 8:30 – 5 and still an hour for lunch (7.5 hour days).

    22. General Ginger*

      I work 8:30 to 4:30 with an included 15 minutes of paid break as long as said break is taken in the building and I can be tracked down and pulled back in to work if needed. If I want to take more than 15 minutes for lunch, or leave the building, then I need to punch out and it’s unpaid.

    23. EddieSherbert*

      My last job was hourly and I worked 7:00-4:30 with a 30 minute unpaid lunch (and two 15 minute paid breaks).

      Break times and lunch time was scheduled at specific times (breaks at 10 and 3, lunch at 12).

    24. Frozen Ginger*

      I work 9-hour days (9/80 schedule) and lunch is unpaid. We also have flex-time in my department, so people take however long they like for lunch, whether that’s 2 hours or 0.

    25. Salyan*

      8-4:30, with a 30 min unpaid lunch break and 2 15 minute paid breaks. Only no one here really takes coffee or smoke breaks, so we all end up book-ending our 15 minute breaks into lunch so we can take an hour. It works out to 8.5 hours at work, with 8 hours paid and a 1 hour lunch break. I like that math. :-)

    27. Tim*

      I work 11-7:30, so 8 hours + 30min unpaid lunch. When I think about it I actually find it really annoying that I’m required to be at work for an unpaid half hour.

    28. Ama*

      Every job I’ve ever had (I’ve been in academia and nonprofit) has been paid based on a 7 hour workday with the expectation that you would take an hour lunch. Now, whether that actually happens all the time is debatable — my last job in academia I was working 9-5:30 or even 6 some days with about 20 minutes for lunch because we were so understaffed. But at my current job except for a couple busy periods I can usually work 9:30-5:30 and take a full hour.

      1. Ama*

        Oh, and to add — my employer is cool with flex hours, so I think they’d be open to someone adjusting to a smaller lunch and leaving earlier/coming in later (as long as it met labor laws) but I personally find that hour break in the middle to be extremely important to being productive in the afternoon. Possibly because I know what it’s like when I don’t get it.

    29. copy run start*

      I’ve always had an unpaid lunch, so 8 hours was 8 – 5. I need an hour to eat and decompress/run errands, but some people like 1/5 hour lunches and will work 8 – 4:30 at the places I’ve worked. Maybe things were different many years ago?

      My mom had a job that paid the first half hour of lunch, but it was a unionized place. I’ve never encountered it here, even when I was unionized.

      1. Workaholic*

        My official shift is 6:30-3 and required by state law to an unpaid 30 min break if we work over 5 hours and 2 10- min paid breaks if working 8 hours. Though i typically arrive at 6:45, eat lunch at my desk, and just make sure I’ve got 8 hours in. If i need a longer lunch break i just have to let boss and co-workers know, assuming no conflicts, and work later to get the full 8 hours.

    30. Thlayli*

      Every job I’ve been in has paid for hours worked not for lunch, so it’s expected you work 8 hours and take a half hour or hour lunch so you are there for 8.5 or 9 hours. At the moment my hours are 8-16:30 with half hour lunch so paid for 8 hours. We get a paid 15 min break in the morn which was a nice surprise never got paid for my breaks before!

  7. Petri Dish of Shame*

    I will officially be getting my master’s degree in a couple of months. It is from a prestigious public university and it is a non-thesis degree (fine for what I do). Here’s the catch: my degree is in a science but since it isn’t a research masters it isn’t an MSc. It is an M with three more letters that unfortunately make the uninitiated think it might be for fine arts! I’m pretty sure I will never be able to use the abbreviation professionally for fear of people thinking I have an arts degree. Is there anything I can do besides writing out “Master of Science Stuff Not Art” (obviously not the real name of my degree)?

      1. Petri Dish of Shame*

        Yes, the S is the fourth letter because it is a Master of Thing and Certain Sciences

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I have an MSEd, which I find is easier to write out as “Master of Science in Education” and then add another line to clarify the subsection within education in which my master’s was focused.

      1. Hapless Bureaucrat*

        Yes that’s a good way to do it, especially for resumes or applications where you really need the hiring manager to understand.
        For a business card or byline or places where there’s not a lot of space, I’d just use the abbreviation and not worry too much.

    3. Gaia*

      I’m not sure you intended this but it comes off as if you view a Master of Fine Arts degree is somehow shameful. It certainly isn’t. Our culture relies on people with a deep understanding of the arts to maintain this aspect of our culture and history as part of our humanity.

      1. Petri Dish of Shame*

        No not at all, I could never pull off such a degree. It would just completely bizarre for somebody in my field to have an arts degree.

      2. Anon today...and tomorrow*

        Hmmm…that’s not how I read it at all. I got the impression that Petri Dish of Shame was more concerned that the work put into the science part of the degree would be overlooked since it’s not clear by the designation / title. I can understand that. Titles do matter. Years ago I had my title change at a position and though I was clearly advised that nothing about my position changed the title gave the impression that I had less responsibility than I did. I raised a stink about it and turns out they did it to all people in the company with a title similar to mine and we were all peeved.

      3. Petri Dish of Shame*

        Ohhh, do you mean the nom de plume? I think there is already a Petri Dish here, so it was of Shame (as in Cone of Shame from the movie Up) or of Doom. The name is not related to any opinion I have about art at all. This is the reason I hesitate to comment here. I won’t be doing it again any time soon.

        1. Lily Rowan*

          Please don’t let one (pretty gentle) question drive you away!

          Anyway, is the degree-granting institution relatively large and/or well-known where you are? I’m assuming there are bunches of other graduates around looking for the same kinds of jobs as you are, so that will help ensure that resume-readers are familiar with the degree.

          1. Arduino*

            It’s not just one though. People have been quick as of late to socially nit pick comments. It’s tiresome. Happened to me yesterday on the PTO post.

            1. Drew*

              Agree with Arduino. I’m seeing more comments that snipe from the sidelines without saying anything constructive here, and I’m certain that’s not the community Alison wants for her website. Can we as a group resolve to be less pointlessly critical in our responses, please?

              1. Elizabeth*

                I didn’t think it was pointlessly critical. I got a little bit of the same vibe although I realize it was likely unintentional or unconscious wording. I work at an art school and I do think that people undervalue academic study in the arts in some ways. It’s just incredibly different from other fields.

                2. Arduino*

                  My advice is to assume positive intent vs derailing an entire Convo based off of the vibe a comment most likely written quickly between work tasks gives off….

          2. PDoS*

            Yes, it is a big school and it is in the top tier for my particular profession, and yes there are a lot of us in this degree program (the reason it isn’t an MS is because it was designed for folks already in the general field who want to advance but who aren’t looking to be principle investigators/academic track, there are also a lot of veterinary and pre-veterinary students who get this degree to be more competitive getting into vet school or as continuing education).

            The problem is I am only in the 7th graduating cohort because it is a new degree.

            As for the above comment; it wasn’t necessarily worded rudely but it was certainly off topic and pretty defensive when there was nothing to defend. Asking me for clarification would have been preferable to launching an unrelated offensive. I’ve been reading comments here for years and this is getting to be an issue. I used to really admire how civil discussions were.

            1. Can't Sit Still*

              FWIW, my boss has a very unusual degree, so she writes it out on her CV, since it’s not clear what it is otherwise. I would write yours out for now, since it’s a relatively new degree.

        2. KellyK*

          For what it’s worth, I didn’t take your comment as critical of arts at all. Obviously, if you’re in a sciency field, an arts degree is going to be less relevant, and if the degree type isn’t one where the acronym is easily recognizable in your field (like an MBA would be in business or an MLIS for librarians), it’s going to confuse people.

          I’d write the full degree out on your resume if you think there’s the possibility of confusion.

          My master’s degree is a little weird too, in that it’s a Master’s of Science in English with a Concentration in Technical and Professional Communications. It’s wordy as all get-out, but as a tech writer, I always include the concentration, since it’s way more relevant to my field than an English degree with a focus on literature.

          Even weirder, the MS has nothing to do with the fact that it’s a tech writing degree. The school’s English program does MS degrees, with MAs requiring additional foreign language classes. There’s no part of that that makes any sense to me.

          1. LAI*

            Haha my degree is similar. The concentration is much more closely related to my field of study than the general degree field, so I always include the full name of the concentration, and abbreviate everything else!

        3. Not So NewReader*

          FWIW, I read your question as people would say why do you have X degree for Y field and it was unsettling for you that people may discard your app without even asking what those initials mean.

          Just my opinion, but there seem to be so many degrees out there it makes sense to not abbreviate the name of the degree. Hopefully the name fully stated will make more sense?

          Family member has a Ph-something-or-other and he has to explain what it is, all. the. time. I started thinking of it as our modern day normal. Making matters worse for Family Member, the university no longer offers that degree. I think we will see more and more of this in the future, and more people will be explaining their degree.

        4. Gaia*

          Hi Petri, no it wasn’t the name it was just the way it read. I didn’t think you meant it that way but it read a bit like it would be terrible for people to mistake your degree. Certainly no reason to not comment here.

          1. Amy*

            But…it would be terrible for most job hunters if the person reviewing their resume mistook their super-relevant degree for something completely irrelevant. That could be the difference between getting an interview and not getting it!

            Trying to read this as “Art degrees are inferior and not worth as much” seems like a real stretch to me. All this says to me about a fine arts degree is that it doesn’t give the right qualifications for a science-based job in OP’s field, which is true.

            1. PDoS*

              That’s pretty much it. I’m fairly sure folks with MFAs would not want professional contacts confusing their degree with a Master of Finite Asteroid Science, Master of Forestry and Agronomy, Master of Fistulas and Sepsis Sciences, Master of Fisures and Soil Sciences, Master of Fomites and Alkaline Soda, etc. (disclaimer: degrees I made up). But MFA is much better known in the general population than my degree.

      4. Anxa*

        I didn’t read at all, but that’s because I’m in the sciences. In a lot of schools, getting an arts degree in a science field means you focused on a lot of arts classes and probably skimped on supporting sciences or math credits, which really does matter.

        1. Drew*

          I got a BA in math because I was heading toward an education career and I didn’t see the point in taking a couple of high-powered classes the BS would have required. This came back to bite me when I started working on my MS…

    4. Ms. Meow*

      My bachelor’s is in Chemistry, but because I went to a liberal arts college, I have a BA. At my current job (I now have a PhD), one of the interviewers questioned it and I answered honestly. The interviewer commented how that was interesting and we moved on. It might not be that big of a deal if you can explain it.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        That’s weird–my English degree is a BS, not a BA. My criminal justice degree is an AS. I’ve never been asked about the actual letters, just about why I have two such disparate degrees.

        1. Nan*

          I have a BA in healthcare leadership, but am currently pursuing an MS in healthcare admin. Same flippin’ classes, just more in depth. I don’t know what really distinguishes the A from the S, unless you’re clearly in a science field (biology, chemistry, etc). I wonder if it’s up to the institution. If you think about it, a DDS and a DMD are the same degree, but different schools call it different things.

          Runs off to Google…..

          1. Jadelyn*

            Honestly if you get a good answer come back and share it with us please! I just got my B.S. in HR Management, and I’ve been wondering why that one is an S rather than an A…especially since when my grandboss shared the news with the whole dept most people assumed it was a B.A.

            1. gwal*

              at some schools you can get either BS or BA in the same subject, where the actual distinction has to do with number of research credits/completion of a thesis.

              not my school, as I have a BA in molecular biology :D

              1. General Ginger*

                Yeah, my school’s BS of Accounting required Quantitative Research Methods; the BA folks didn’t have to take that.

                1. Amy*

                  Mine was similar I have a BS Business, to get a BS at my school you had to have a specialization, mine is accounting, and had more core classes in you specializations and fewer general studies classes than people in the BA track.

              2. Jadelyn*

                Huh. My school didn’t have multiple HRM programs for me to choose from, they only offer it as a B.S. But that makes sense as a distinguishing factor for schools that do that!

          2. TL -*

            I know at my school a BA was assumed to be more theorectical and a BS was assumed to be more applied (you could actually track to a biology BA, though most got a BS, by changing classes, and because we didn’t offer any applied math classes, our math degree was only a BA.)

            1. Nan*

              So, it seems in a BA you’ll take a wider sweep of classes, learn more about more things, not just related to your field. In a BS, you are mostly in your field of study.
              http://www.bestvalueschools.com/faq/what-is-the-difference-between-a-b-a-and-a-b-s/

              Way back when, when I went to school the first time (I quit) I was pursing a BS in biology, but the school offered it as both a BS and BA, and I chose the BS, because the BA would have required a huge paper at the end. But that was 18 year old me thinking on that one.

              1. Anxa*

                Probably at some schools.

                At my school you could get a B.A. in my science subject with fewer math classes, fewer chem/physics classes, and fewer credits overall. I think some people in the BA track even maxed on on just 15 credits a semester as full-time. B.S. was more rigorous and more quantitative. A lot of BA students were double majors.

          3. Mephyle*

            In my day (1970s), my country (Canada), the degree was according to the faculty. So if you studied Biology in the Faculty of Arts, (an unusual thing which my undergrad university allowed), you could get a B.A. (Biology). But most of the biology students were taking their degree in the Faculty of Science, so they got a B.Sc.
            I also studied at a university that had a Faculty of Mathematics, which is an unusual thing, since most mathematics departments at other universities are organized within the Faculty of Science. So most math majors at other universities earn a B. Sc. (Mathematics) or a M.Sc. (Mathematics) but at this university, you earn a B.Math. or an M.Math.
            I can’t say if it’s the same in other places.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          At one school I went to the BS was if you did not take a foreign language. If you took another language you got a BA.

      2. General Ginger*

        I went to a liberal arts college, but have a BS in Accounting. The college offered a BA in Accounting, too. Both the BA and the BS students took mostly the same classes, except that those of us on the BS track had to take Forensic Accounting and Quantitative Research Methods. BA Accounting students didn’t have to take a research methods class, and I think the Forensic Accounting was optional.

    5. Aunt Vixen*

      I have (among other degrees) an MA in a social science. The fact that the A stands for arts hasn’t hurt me at all. The fact that you’re wishing you had an MSc (rather than wishing you had an MS) makes me think you might be in the UK? But I’m not sure I see why you can’t put on your CV “Mish, Extremely Scientific Subject” just as you’d do if you had a science degree in something artistic (“MSc, Ceramic Basket Weaving” or whatever).

      1. PDoS*

        Thanks for your feedback but I’m an American and the degree is in a “hard science”. I don’t wish I had an MSc, I wish the folks who designed my degree program thought about how the initials could be misleading. I will definitely be writing the whole thing out on my CV but on cards and stuff I’m afraid it will look very strange, or if I were to do adjunct teaching the letters would look really weird because I’d be teaching in the science department.

        1. MegaMoose, Esq*

          Yeah, there’s nothing at all wrong with wanting your degree to be interpreted correctly. I think you just need to spell it out – I don’t think anyone would think worse of you for doing so.

        2. TotesMaGoats*

          I wouldn’t worry about it if you are going into teaching in higher ed. We know there are all sorts of interesting ways of granting degrees.

        3. Ama*

          FWIW, I have an MFA in an arts subject and wound up working in an area adjacent to medical research academia (as an admin not a reasearcher), so I go to a lot of events where it’s expected that you will list your postgraduate degrees after your name. I was a little concerned also that people would see my degree and discount me because I’m not a scientist but really all I have gotten was the occasional interested “I saw on the directory you have an MFA? What in?” and sometimes a follow up “how did you wind up in [area] research?” but always just out of curiosity not in a condescending way. I’d imagine you might get a few more questions about what your degree subject area was than the average MSc but I don’t think most people will automatically think less of your educational background without asking.

          1. PDoS*

            Thanks for sharing that anecdote! Of course there is nothing wrong with an MFA, it’s just irrelevant to the sort of thing I do. It’s nice to have your the perspective from the other side. People who ask know you have an MFA right? They don’t assume you have a professional science degree with weird initials (like mine)?

    6. KL*

      No, I doubt anyone would look at it an think it’s not a science degree. A lot of schools (including the one I work for) have professional Master’s degrees in sciences, but they aren’t MSc degrees. I’d spell it out on your resume/CV if you’re worried about it, but I would imagine that if a hiring manager saw the degree and school, but didn’t recognize it, they’d look it up.

    7. Jules the Third*

      Go with the ‘MFAS (Masters of Flourine Activation and Science)’ format (degree abbreviation, then degree full name), and be prepared to discuss it briefly in the interview.

      I entered an ‘MBA for Geeks’ program that had an odd abbreviation (like, MSB, Masters of Science in Business, iirc). It turned into a fill MBA program by the time I graduated, but for intern interviews, I had to talk to it.

      Fortunately most job listings have ‘or equivalent’ for degree and experience requirements. The online applications I’ve seen get around the ‘worldwide variety of educational abbreviations’ by asking ‘level of educational attainment’ and having a pull-down with ‘Masters’ as one option, so *which* masters it is doesn’t matter.

      I would actually expect HR people or people in a smaller field to recognize the relevant Mxx varients, but maybe you could put ‘similar to an MSc’ in applications to smaller companies with no HR / web application.

    8. Bartlet for President*

      I have an MSSc, which no one has ever heard. I typically write “MSSc in Subject Area” or write out the actual degree type. Sometimes, I just write MSSc, and they ask me about it later. Honestly, they will recognize it as a masters, and unless you are looking at research positions, no one will care that much.

      If you’re concern is how to write your name (such as Josh Lyman, MSSc), I would just write John Lyman. Unless it’s a terminal degree it really should go to after your name.

    9. Pwyll*

      Are you asking how to write it on your resume, or as a post-nominal?

      I’ve long-since given up on abbreviating my degrees on my resume, as I’ve gone through so many quizzical looks with my BBA degree (which has previously included an argument with a recruiter that, no, it’s neither a Bachelor of Arts nor of Science, and is in fact a Bachelor’s in Business Administration directly. Yes, my school is weird. No, no amount of clarifying questions to the school is going to magically change it to a B.A. or B.S.)

      I also didn’t find it terribly helpful in my career to include M.S. behind my name because it gave people the wrong idea (it’s in crisis communications), and only use my Esq. when absolutely necessary. That said, if it’s normal in your industry to include post-nominals, can you swap around the letters a bit? For example, if it’s MFAS, perhaps FASM or MFASc?

      1. PDoS*

        Post nominal, like on the personnel listing at work and on business cards or bylines (I do a bit of technical writing). I like your suggestions for rearranging the initials. I don’t think I could do MFASc though, in my mind Sc is reserved for graduates who did a thesis. I am doing a technical paper, oral comps, and seminar/ defense, so it is a little more low key.

    10. Collie*

      I have an MLIS (Master of Library and Information Science), and while many people don’t know what it is by acronym, those who matter know (ie, employers). Unless you’re putting it on a printed business card, why not just try the acronym for a bit and see how it goes? You can always change it (your email signature, your resume, etc.) if you determine it’s not obvious enough. Good luck!

  8. Private Eyes Are Watching You*

    Oh the joys of a security camera!

    This is the first job I’ve had that requires I keep an eye on the security camera throughout the day and it has been interesting, to say the least. I am curious what crazy things others have seen.

    I have seen everything from people making out and practicing their golf swing, to using the time between all floors on the elevator to eat their lunch (pushing all the buttons). But the craziest happened last week. Our building is mostly secure, in that you have to buzz to get in and need a key fob to open any doors along the stairwell, but the lobby itself is unmanned, it just has the cameras. Well last week two women buzzed every floor to get in so I ignored them. Unfortunately someone on one of the other floors let them in and they immediately scoped out the area testing the door to the stairs which was locked. Then one of them stood in front of the front door obviously playing lookout while her friend proceeded to pull down her pants and squat in front of the elevator to relieve herself into a shopping bag, which she then moved out of sight under the radiator before the two of them left! She was semi concealed from the public view but…it is an elevator, so anyone could have stumbled upon them at any time. Oh and I forgot to mention, her friend took a break from her lookout duties long enough to take a picture of the squatter.

    I work in a big city, so there are public restrooms everywhere (including a Starbucks three doors down from us). Even if you don’t know the area, they obviously have phones so they could have looked at a map. Just makes no sense they would pick a secure building that they have to wait to even be let in. But they did!

    So what crazy things have the rest of you seen people do when they had no idea someone was watching?

    1. Rincat*

      That’s insane!! I mean, I have to pee all the time myself so I get feeling desperate when you have to go….but it seems like it would take much longer to wait for someone to buzz you in than find a gas station or Starbucks or whatever!

      The only funny thing I can think of – my husband works at a datacenter with security cameras everywhere. In the lobby, they have motion sensor lights. When he was on night shift, some of the guys would try to see how far across the lobby they could get before they tripped the motion sensors, so there’s a bunch of security footage of the techs moving in slow motion with goofy smiles across the lobby.

      1. Private Eyes Are Watching You*

        That’s hilarious. I can totally picture it. That’s definitely the kind of thing we’d end up replaying again and again.
        As for our visitors, I think the consensus is that they must have been stuck on a tour bus for that long. But even so if it was me, I would have looked for a restaurant or something similar.

    3. k*

      Well that is something you don’t expect.

      We have security cameras in my office. The monitors are always visible, but they’re really only closely watched when something suspicious has happened. Still, I always feel a bit self-conscious that see me walking around and wonder why I take so many bathroom breaks (I like to get up and stretch my legs).

    4. LKW*

      My office building installed those pre-select elevator things where you have to select the floor before you get on and they’ve removed the floor selection buttons from inside the elevator. No lunch break elevator rides there…

    5. CatCat*

      I didn’t see it, but I’m not surprised (as your tale shows, people are super bizarre): Someone took a sh*t in the hallway at OldJob. I wasn’t there anymore, but it’s become a running joke when I talk to my former colleagues. “How are things at NewJob?” “Great, no one’s taken a dump in the hallway here!”

      1. RVA Cat*

        Somebody took Like a Boss! a bit too literally (but it least it wasn’t on someone’s desk).

    6. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Man, that doesn’t sound like she needed to go… it sounds deliberate.

      1. Private Eyes Are Watching You*

        We figured if it was deliberate, she wouldn’t have used the bag.

    7. Smiling*

      Our building has a spot in the back that is not visible from the street, but is covered by security cameras. Once, a few months back, a couple (no one who works with us) pulled into the back of the building in their vehicle and proceeded to have sex in their vehicle. It was all caught on camera. This is despite the sign back there that says 24 hour surveillance.

      1. Lolli*

        We came into our offices one morning to find ceiling tile had fallen in various offices in our area. The police were called because one of the offices was used as a store to sell technical equipment. So people thought someone had tried to break in through the ceiling. That office had video surveillance and it showed a raccoon almost fell with the ceiling tile and managed to pull itself back up through the ceiling. An entertaining morning was had by all (except the poor raccoon).

    8. Triangle Pose*

      I just use it to spy on my dogs and see which one was misbehaving when I come home to shredded BBB coupons. (DON’T THEY KNOW THOSE COUPONS NEVER EXPIRE? Gahhh!)

    9. AlaskaKT*

      Whew stories about security cameras, I’ve got a few! I worked security for a bunch of different places over a 7 year span so with that in mind:

      There’s the time a homeless gentleman took a dump on some stairs behind the library, and managed to walk while doing so, leaving a line down 9 stairs. The most ridiculous thing is that those stairs were the only place at the library that had cameras because they led to the computer lab.

      There’s the time I watched playback on school cameras of a burglar leaving out one door right as I entered the other. Had I been a minute sooner my 5’2″ self would have bumped right into the 6ft tall guy stealing computers.

      There’s the time when a bunch of kids broke into a school and didn’t steal anything but smashed every window in the school, doing over a mil in damage. They broke in the front door, then covered their faces to smash cameras, after they were all already on cameras.

      And I saved the best for last. This requires some set up. I was working security for county PUD, and my station had a little screen that I could flip through 20 different cameras all over the county. I was also equipped with a joy stick system for rotating and zooming. Every security stand for the PUD had this system (about 5 or 6 of us), PLUS a big camera wall at the PUD building with a guy watching, PLUS a mini station at the county police station. Now about 3 of these cameras were at a substation near a park with a hug lake that people go swimming and boating at. Those cameras were consistanly moved away from the station to the park, and then zoomed in on women/girls wearing bikinis. And there was some serious zoom on these things too (I could read license plates on vehicles across a mile side river). Now the cool thing about this set up is that the station in the PUD building and the police station could ‘lock’ other users out, and I couldnt move those cameras. My boss ended up putting a camera in the PUD camera room and sure enough he caught one of our guys entertaining himself under the desk while zoomed in on teenage boobs… He was perp walked out, AND banned from all PUD properties and that park.

      I guess that was weird behind and in front if a camera.

  9. Cover Story*

    I was wondering if I can get feedback on a “cover story” for why I want to leave my current job of less than a year.

    The actual reason: the management and team simply don’t have their act together. My problems started my first week. The team got a grant to implement a teapot technology product a year ago despite them not being a teapot-focused department, never having planned or implemented a teapot project in their lives, or managed teapot staff. I was hired as a teapot specialist to bring the product to fruition.

    Because they severely underestimated budget and staffing needs, I had to advocate for a larger budget and commitment to staffing to get the project to a baseline of being viable. I had a tense first few months with my immediate supervisor who was often heavy handed and micromanaging but absolutely clueless. I spent the first couple of months on the job undoing his planning and setting up a new plan from scratch. I talked to the EAP service several times a week and ended up going to a psychologist for therapy to deal with all this in my first four months on the job.

    Eight months later, I am glad to have righted the ship. I am now in the middle of building the product with a vendor and slated to launch in a couple of months. My boss has eased on being heavy handed and now trusts I know what I am doing. My other colleagues are cooperating and are nice to me and respect my skills and experience.

    I could very well stay with this project until the grant runs out (in 18 months). But I’ve had enough of dealing with bosses and colleagues who simply don’t know what they are doing. I also find being the lone teapot person in a non-teapot focused department isolating and not where I want to be. My aim is to launch the teapot product but after that I am out.

    I have been getting asked why I am leaving in interviews. My cover story has been to say the project is financially insecure and dependent on grants to keep going, and that I am seeking a more secure situation. But I get the feeling those who I’ve talked to aren’t convinced this is a “good enough” reason. I hesitate to say the truth because that might give the impression I am badmouthing my current employers.

    I’ve also considered saying I want to be part, once again, of a teapot team or a teapot department rather than be the lone, in-house teapot person in a department and colleagues who are not teapot-focused. Or that being the lone in-house teapot specialist in a non-teapot department working with non-teapot colleagues is not my cup of tea (pun intended).

    Any advice on effective cover stories?

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      I think “I want to be part of a teapot team rather than be a lone, in-house teapot person,” is a perfectly valid reason to look for a new job. Obvious if I was hiring a lone, in-house teapot person I’d take a pass. But if I was hiring for a teapot team member, I’d consider it a positive that you know what kind of work you prefer.

    2. LizB*

      I think the “I don’t like being the only teapot expert” explanation is the best one, as long as you’re applying for jobs where you won’t also be in that situation. You can tie it into both working environment and professional goals – you prefer to have at least some peers with a similar background to bounce ideas off of, and it’s hard to grow professionally in the teapot field when the organization doesn’t have any focus on teapots other than your current role.

      1. k*

        This is spot on. As I was reading, this was the explanation that came to mind before you even said it. It works because it’s valid, easy to understand, and shows that you have career goals that are committed to that industry.

    4. fposte*

      Agreeing with everybody that the outlier explanation is fine; I think I’d probably pair it with an “I didn’t want to leave until I got the project off the ground, but now…” preface.

    5. S.*

      I’m also currently looking for a new job because being the lone teapot developer is too isolating for me. In my interviews, when I’ve brought that up I get good responses. It’s also a good opening to ask a lot of questions about their teapot team, the kind of interactions my role would have with other teapot developers, etc, because it’s really important to me to make sure I find the right fit this time.

    7. nonegiven*

      I’d go with
      > I want to be part, once again, of a teapot team or a teapot department rather than be the lone, in-house teapot person in a department and colleagues who are not teapot-focused.

  10. Susan*

    In my job, we work in pairs, and each pair can divide the workload as we see fit. Our main work area is in Building A, but first thing in the morning, we both have to attend a meeting in Building B, which is usually over around 8:45. Then, one of us has to attend another meeting in Building B at 9:15. There’s not enough time to go all the way to Building A, get any significant work done, and go back to Building B, so most people spend the time between meetings eating breakfast or surfing the web on their phones.

    My work partner, Jane, and I both dislike meetings, so for the sake of fairness, we alternate who attends the second meeting. When Jane attends the second meeting, I go straight to Building A and start working after the first meeting, while Jane eats breakfast and waits for the second meeting to start. When I attend the second meeting, however, Jane still eats breakfast right after the first meeting, and often stays in Building B surfing the web or taking a nap until I get out of the second meeting.

    Is it reasonable for me to ask Jane to attend the second meeting every day if she’s not going to do any work between the two meetings anyway? And what is a nice way of telling her that I want her to go to the second meeting every day since I know she’s not going to do any work until after the second meeting, anyway?

    1. Hermione*

      I think the real question is whether Jane is meeting all of her goals and/or keeping up her end of the workload? If she’s able to manage her workload and still take that time between the two meetings then I think maybe it’s not any of your business what she does with her time (because you’re not her manager; if you were her manager then you would definitely have the standing to be upset that she’s NAPPING or otherwise screwing around during work).

      If she’s having trouble meeting deadlines, then I think that’s something you can try to address with Jane (or maybe your manager, if framed in a ‘this is how Jane isn’t holding up her end and how it’s affecting my work’ sort of way).

      But I think either way it’s not really feasible for you to pawn off meetings that you simply don’t want to go to just because you think she should have to do something – the something that she should be doing is her work, not attending a meeting in your place.

      1. Susan*

        The thing is, Jane doesn’t have her own personal workload and deadlines. We work as a pair, so the workload and deadlines belong to Jane AND me. I always make sure we meet our goals, but I am doing roughly 2/3 of the workload, no matter which one of us attends the second meeting.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          Can you divide the work 50/50 and each decide how you use your time to do it?

        2. Hermione*

          Then that’s the thing to bring up to either Jane or your boss.

          Question: If she took over the second meeting, would it really make up for all the extra work you’re doing where she doesn’t pull her own weight? I’d wager that the real problem is that she’s not doing her share of the work, and that her taking over this second meeting, while it would be a temporary relief, wouldn’t actually solve the overall problem.

    2. LoFlo*

      Jane can nap at work? Is Jane’s napping and dawdling preventing work from getting done? Is attending the meeting a job requirement? I would just tell her that you think it would be better if she attended the meetings with you every day, and say that if she doesn’t want to go, she should get clarification from your manager if she needs to attend or not. I would be livid if my co-worker was sleeping on the job.

      1. Susan*

        It’s a requirement for one of us to attend the meeting, but management doesn’t care which one of us. The last person who was paired with me liked going to the meetings, and was more than happy to take a leisurely breakfast break and then sit in a meeting while I got started on the real work. Oh, and she has gotten in trouble before for napping on the job, but our managers aren’t around that often so she rarely gets caught in the act.

        1. LoFlo*

          Why do you think that her napping is and lack of equal contribution is OK? The napping thing alone, is time theft, just as if she left early and recorded it as work time. The equal contribution thing might not be something that you can do much about. However, Jane would be much more productive is she wasn’t sleeping at work. I get that you are a team, but Jane isn’t being much of a team player here.

          1. Susan*

            I agree completely, but unfortunately, there’s not much I can do about it. Our management knows that certain people do not pull their weight, but they basically refuse to do anything about it, other than pair each lazy person with a hard worker. I’ve always been paired with lazy people, but at least the other lazy people I’ve worked with have been willing to go to the second meeting so I can get more work done.

            1. LoFlo*

              You are a saint, and your management sucks at performance management. My guess is that they do the pairing thing as a way to avoid, you know, really managing performance. Please don’t burn yourself out trying to compensate for the Jane’s.

            2. Ann O.*

              Is there a way you can talk to management to get their support in making Jane go to the second meeting? It sounds like that would be ideal given the two of your work preferences. You don’t have the authority to force that change, but they do.

    3. Howdy Do*

      Is she not completing her work fast enough for you to work effectively together? Because even if she doesn’t start her work in that time you’re in the meeting and has gotten in the habit of eating breakfast then, if it doesn’t really affect her work output then I don’t see why it would be worth rocking the boat or even really a fair request. You both don’t like the meetings and I don’t think she’d be compelled by “I don’t like the way you spend your time when I’m in the meeting” since you’re not her boss (unless of course it does have a substantial impact on your workflow.)

      1. Susan*

        I don’t think her breakfast break affects her work output, but attending the meeting affects my work output — and therefore our overall work output. Let’s say we’re expected to make at least 25 teapots per shift (preferably more). She typically makes 10 teapots in a shift, whether she attends the second meeting or not, because she spends hours surfing the web every day instead of making teapots. If I start working after the first meeting, I can make 20 teapots in a shift, but if I have to go to the second meeting, I can only make 18 teapots in a shift. So if she goes to the meeting, the two of us make a combined 30 teapots in a shift, but if I go, we only make a combined 28 teapots in a shift.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Ugh, it’s hard when two people with different work ethics are paired up. So you are meeting goals but you think the two of you could do better?

          Can you say something like, “Jane, I am concerned because the goal is 25 teapots/day. Most of the time we make it but we each should be doing 12-13 teapots per person. What if I have a bad day or maybe I get sick/injured? Would you be able to get up to 12-13 teapots so we can meet our goal?”

          The point here is you are trying to get her up to carrying half the load. And you kind of put a scare into her by suggesting what if you don’t get enough teapots for the day, then what will the two of you do?

          I have tried this with a few people. I can’t repeat here what some of them said. But others did pick up their pacing. Differences in people. I think talk to her and if you do not see improvement as the boss what she thinks you should do next.

          1. zora*

            I like this idea best, framing it as your team reaching a goal together.

            I think you could either go with what NSNR said: ask her to up her output to help the team.

            OR, this is a little more of a selfish solution: asking her to go to the 2nd meeting as part of the goal. “It would be awesome if we could get up to 30 teapots per day, [insert consequences of this, we would get better reviews, perks, etc.] If you go to the 2nd meeting every day, I could get more teapots done, and we would hit that 30 teapot goal every day. Could we do that from now on?” If you think she’s brazen enough to say no to that, frame it as “could we try this for a month and see what our team results look like?”

    4. Master Bean Counter*

      “Hey Jane, since you’re here the entire time of the meeting anyway how about you be the one to attend while I go back to my desk to work on x?”

    5. k*

      Because you are peers and not in a position of authority, I think you’d have a hard time directly telling her that you’ve noticed she isn’t doing anything, so can she either go to the second meeting or get back to work. I would start with something more subtle. On the day you take the second meeting say “Jane, no need to stick around until I finish the meeting, I’ll just meet you back over in Building A.” I’m sure others can give you and option that is less passive aggressive, but if nothing else this makes her aware that you’ve noticed what she’s doing. Hopefully she’ll be a little embarrassed that her slacking has been noticed and will stop.

      1. Definitely Anon*

        Next time you could offer her a choice “Hey Jane, would you rather attend this meeting or do task X? We can meet up after the meeting to (insert thing that needs to be done after task X). I am fine doing either.” Then if she doesn’t want to do any work she has to explicitly state that, which most people won’t do. You could also try explicitly divvying up the tasks at the beginning of the week and saying something if you feel like to many of the tasks are being shifted to you.

        1. EddieSherbert*

          I think this is a great suggestion – it helps you address everything instead of just the meeting! Good luck!

        2. Rachel in NYC*

          I admit I prefer this as a solution. Or alternatively (or if it doesn’t work), you could try asking her if there’s a reason why she prefers to wait for you in Bldg B- not in a position of authority way but in a friendly, hey I was just wondering if there was a reason why you prefer to not head over to the office to get started on things while I’m in the meeting. She may have a reason that you’d accept or could find a work around with (maybe problems with someone who works in Bldg A at that time of day and she wants to avoid them- it’s unlikely but there are undoubtedly reasons that she may have that OP may find acceptable or that may allow them to find a middle ground)

          1. Susan*

            The reason she stays in Building B is because our break area is there, and we’re not allowed to have food in Building A.

            I know it would be more fair to offer her the option of doing Task X instead of going to the meeting, but I know her well enough to know that she would make up for it later by not doing Task Y (she would probably go back to Building B to eat breakfast after I get out of the meeting, or take a longer lunch break, or just spend more time surfing the web later).

  11. Always anon*

    How do I decide on a career? I’m doing a language degree and there are lots of options that I’m really interested in with quite different environments, but I don’t think I know enough about how I work to figure out what kind of environment I’d prefer. More details in comments.

    1. Always anon*

      So, details: I’m studying English and German. For a career, I’m considering TEFL, teaching German at secondary school, academia for linguistics, translating and interpreting. I’m equally interested in teaching German, academia and interpreting, and slightly less interested in TEFL and translating.
      I know that I work well with a routine, but I’m not sure how set in stone I’d want my daily routine to be. I like a fairly high amount of autonomy, but I wouldn’t want to work entirely alone (I could sit at a desk on my own all day, as long as I have a meeting every couple of weeks, for example). I definitely don’t want to work from home and I don’t want to freelance as a main job, though I wouldn’t mind doing *some* freelance on the side. I’ve read a lot about the realities of daily life in each career, and I still don’t know which I’d prefer.
      So, thoughts? Advice? Anything to share about how you decided on your career? Thanks in advance! :)

      1. Dinosaur*

        Which language is your B language/L2? If you think you’d like interpreting in part because you’d get to speak your L2, it’s more common for spoken language interpreting jobs to work into your first language most of the time. That depends on the region, obviously, but it’s something to know. This is a perfect situation for informational interviews. Good luck exploring!

        1. Always anon*

          L1 is English and L2 is German. Ideally, I’d like to bring in Danish as an L3, though only passively. I think I’d find out how viable it would be for me to use both as an active language when doing training for interpreting, right? If I try to freelance right after graduating (without doing a Master’s), I think I’d be too scared to try and interpret into German anyway! Thanks for your input! :)

      2. AP*

        I actually got my degree in German as well (graduated little over 5 years ago). I first worked in a semi-technical digital role that needed someone who could communicate with internal and external clients based in Germany and Austria. I then ended up going deeper into digital marketing, and that’s what I do now at a totally different company in an unrelated field. So my career path has essentially been stumbling from one thing to another, but it’s fun and satisfying and I think it’s given me the time I needed to figure out what I really wanted to do. The first job helped me get a taste of the industry and from there I ended up taking one path, but it probably could have gone a lot of different ways.

        1. Always anon*

          That’s interesting! I’m glad that you’ve found something that works for you. Thanks for adding that – it’s nice to see that there’s lots of options, if I end up going for something else. :)

    2. LizB*

      I also did a degree that could lead to tons of different environments and roles, and this is how I handled it:

      1. Informational interviews! See if some of your professors can connect you with folks in some of the different fields you might be interested in, and ask them a lot about how they got into their field, what the pros and cons are of this role versus other roles they’ve had, what kind of professional is a good fit for their work, and who else they would recommend talking to. It’s pretty likely that some of them were in the same position you are currently in, and will be able to tell you about how they figured out their own path.

      2. Trial and error, honestly. If you can do internships while in school, that can help you start figuring things out, but then it’s really just getting jobs that sound good and moving on (after a reasonable amount of time – a couple years is best) if it’s not what you really like. It helps if your first job or two involve skills that can translate easily into other careers. It’s not really necessary to Decide On A Career for sure right out of school unless all of your options have separate advanced degrees that you would need to get before taking any kind of job, which is pretty rare. It’s pretty common to move around in different aspects of a given field, or even move fields, over a number of years.

      1. Nemo*

        I second internships because I did not do them and honestly wish I had. I think it would have given me a much better idea in what I want from a job, whereas I’m now on a third post-college job and still feeling really unhappy (not even this isn’t a dream job but Im content enough, I mean really can’t stand it).

      2. Always anon*

        Thank you, this is really helpful! I’m definitely taking a note of the types of thing I should ask about. :)
        I think part of my problem is the more I learn about each field, the more interested I am in pursuing it! So I think trial and error especially will help me to figure things out properly. Thanks again! :)

    3. Beth*

      I got a language degree as well, so I’m familiar with this struggle. If you want to stay in your field, you have three main paths you can take: Teaching language, translation/intepreting, and academia.

      Translation, interpretation, and some forms of teaching (tutoring, mostly) are largely freelance careers. That’s not to say that you couldn’t find an established position, but the reality is that most professionals in those areas are freelancers for at least some portion of their career. If you don’t want to freelance, I’d recommend keeping them for on-the-side.

      Teaching language in a school setting is a more steady path, but often requires certifications and/or training beyond just a degree in your language. It also shares a lot in common with teaching in general–it may be worth talking to some actual secondary school teachers and seeing if the ways they describe their jobs sound like things you could handle.

      Academia is its own beast. Since you’re currently doing your degree, I strongly suggest setting up meetings with your professors to discuss their field and get their advice. They’re a great resource for learning about the day-to-day reality of a career in academia, and there’s no better time to access that than when you’re actually their student and have a relationship built up with them. (If you do decide to pursue this path, you’ll likely need to do additional schooling, and having them on board will also be good for getting letters of recommendation.)

      I think it’s also worth considering a career that’s maybe not 100% ABOUT your languages, but touches on them. A lot of people with language degrees go on to use those skills in other fields–a lot of companies do international business, for example, and really appreciate employees who have the ability to function in both their local language and their business partner’s (or international branch’s) language. If you’re not sure what to do next, doing something like this for a couple years can give you a chance to build up some savings while you’re figuring it out.

      1. Undine*

        I know someone who did translation (for a company) for a couple years & hated it. But she now is employed as a project manager for a tech company, coordinating translators, which she likes much more. She doesn’t use her language skills directly, but her past experience is really useful. So whatever choice you make, you can develop after that.

        1. Always anon*

          Thank you! I haven’t given management much thought, but maybe I should to try and keep my options open. :)

      2. Always anon*

        My impression for translating is that many people start either freelancing or inhouse, then career development is to either managing teams of translators or back to freelancing. For (conference) interpreting, my impression is that it’s common to start freelance, then go inhouse (such as for the EU, on the higher end of things). Would you say that’s a typical career path, or am I off base? I think I could deal with freelancing for some time, with the goal of eventually working inhouse.
        I’ll see if I can contact my old high school teachers and set something up with my professors. I’ll try to keep my options open to alternative careers, too. Thanks so much for your input! :)

        1. EU anon*

          Take this with a grain of salt, as I’m not employed in translation/interpreting, but as someone who worked for the EU institutions (and who has a degree in languages and considered translation as a career)… it’s not a career I would go down these days. Very, very difficult to get in, you’ll need a masters degree (unofficially, if not on paper), as well as excelling in a multi-stage job competition lasting almost a year (IIRC) with 50,000+ applicants who need to pass just to be allowed to apply for a job. And once you’re in, the prospects aren’t great – they’re relying heavily on contracted agency work these days, and many translators feel they’ll be lucky to get through to retirement without being replaced entirely by machines and proofreaders. Some of this is hearsay, so obviously do your own research, but it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.

          1. Always anon*

            Thanks for pointing that out – I knew about the Master’s, and I’m not particularly *surprised* that the process is so intensive, but… wow, that’s intensive. If I do go into translating or interpreting, I’ll keep that in mind and do extra research when it comes to it. Thanks again! :)

        2. Humble Schoolmarm*

          Secondary Language teacher here. Asking to talk to some of your old teachers is a good idea, as is making arrangements to go in and help or observe a class or two. One thing I would ask myself is whether your biggest love is using German or helping others use German. If you mostly love using the language, I would go for translation etc. Using a language at that level of fluency is a different skill set from teaching. For teaching, you have really enjoy teens and have a lot of patience with kids who are struggling to master concepts that you find easy because you’re much more fluent.

          1. Always anon*

            Thanks so much for pointing that out – I’ll need to think a lot about that! I think this is probably what it comes down to for me. Thanks again. :)

    4. Drew*

      This may be a minority view, but the way I chose a career was to have several very different jobs until I found one that “clicked” – and it has NOTHING to do with the degrees I got. My parents were appalled that I was “job hopping,” but my shortest stint at a professional job was a mite under three years, and that one ended when the business closed, not because I chose to leave. I think, find a job that you can see yourself doing for a few years, and if it turns into a career, great – and if not, it’s still valuable experience you can sock away while you look for something new to do.

      Best of luck!

      1. Always anon*

        That’s interesting! If you don’t mind answering, is there anything in particular that you took away from each job that helped you find the one that clicked? Like figuring out life/work balance, environment, amount of collaboration, day-to-day etc? Or just learning and growing? Thanks for your input! :)

  12. Collie*

    I’ve accepted an offer, been confirmed with drug/alcohol/background checks, and put in my resignation! It’s real!

      1. Collie*

        Tests are done and I passed (of course…there’s no reason why I wouldn’t).

        Thank you all! I’m thrilled!

    7. A paranoid drinker*

      Congratulations! Can I ask, what were the requirements for passing the alcohol checks? I’ve never heard of them being a requirement before.

      1. Collie*

        When I went to the drug testing lab (which required the usual pee-in-a-cup), I also had to take a breathalyzer test. I thought it was on the odd side — who shows up to a drug test drunk? — but I’ll be working with children and it was no skin off my nose, so *shrug*

  13. OntheSpectrum*

    Argh, I didn’t realize the formatting would eat up half my story. Let me try that again. Sorry!

    I’ll hopefully be starting a new job soon and I’m a woman on the autism spectrum. Should I tell HR?

    Background: I’m “high functioning” and have been in the workforce for over a decade now. I’ve gotten pretty good over the years at figuring out social cues, have algorithms for small talk, can convincingly fake eye contact, etc. Many people are surprised when they find out I’m on the spectrum.

    However, the longer I’m around someone the more likely it is they’ll pick up that there’s something “off” about me. Try as I might, I’ll completely misread a social situation, forget the social hierarchy and be too polite to the janitor and too casual with the CEO, say something sincere and have it read as sarcastic or vice versa, think it’s a good time for a joke when it isn’t, and so on. (Side note: when people tell you it’s okay to loosen up and make some mistakes, they definitely don’t mean socially!)

    I told my manager at my first job and at first she seemed understanding, but later on she’d say things like “You’ll need to take Jane with you to the meeting because you need an interpreter” and calling it “my condition.” If a social situation went badly, she immediately assumed it was my fault, even if I had multiple co-workers backing me up and saying no, Fergus really was just being a jerk.

    At my more recent job, I tried not telling anyone I was on the spectrum. Cut to a couple months later, and my manager does my initial review and goes down the checklist, noting that I’m great at absolutely everything my job entails – but a couple co-workers don’t like my jokes. (These jokes were silly puns and such, not anything offensive.) I’d mistaken their laughter at the first one for encouragement and didn’t notice they didn’t actually like me. *whoops* I told him I’m autistic and promised to fix it, and he said okay, that was fine.

    But then I had a few more problems, most appreciably trying to make friends with some of the HR women, since they’d been nice to me, only to get told blatantly that HR doesn’t make friends (which, ok, makes sense, but *whoops*) and openly calling out some white male privilege during a company-wide open discussion (the guys being privileged were upper managers *whoops*). Got let go without much ceremony after that last one, though they tried to soften it by telling me that “I was clearly under a lot of stress” and “maybe this wasn’t the right environment for me.”

    Additionally, everywhere I’ve worked I’ve inevitably had co-workers correct me on some social incident and then, after I’d said thank you, assume they could tell me how interact with people from then on. It’s incredibly aggravating, demoralizing, and patronizing, but I’ve yet to find a graceful way out of it, and some times it actually is a help.

    So should I tell HR and/or my manager at the new job? I’m honestly scared at this point of having more bad co-worker experiences, but freelancing isn’t paying the bills fast enough. (I’m a writer.) Any other advice would also be greatly appreciated!

    1. Triangle Pose*

      I would wait for a bit and see how the environment is.

      I want to note something for you – your comment indicates to me that you feel you were let go even though your manager said in your review that you’re great at absolutely everything your job entails and that the only reason you were let go without ceremony is because a few coworkers didn’t like your jokes. But part of you job does entail being pleasant and interacting with coworkers, bosses, everyone else in the building in a professional, appropriate and polite way. Part of that is reacting appropriately to social and professional cues and generally behaving in a way that aligns with professional norms. You might find it helpful to consider whether the jokes were just an example of behavior they wanted changed and not the sole reason they let you go (also may look back at this and consider if your jokes were inappropriate for the moment). I find that many people (Autism spectrum or not!) try to draw this bright line circle around their listed job responsibilities/tasks/deliverables and then put everything else outside that circle and decide they don’t have to care about it or throw their hands up and call it “office politics” without recognizing that this decision it to their own detriment. I’m not saying you’re definitely doing this but I’m getting a hint of it from your comment I find in general that outlook on the working world to be very unhelpful if your goal is to advance and be successful in a professional environment.

      I’m sorry your manager assumed all bad social interactions involving you were your faul. I’m not sure why it’s a problem that she’s acknowledging it as a condition? Is that terminology offensive to you or was she sharing it with others? I guess I’m having a hard with your position here – you want her to acknowledge that you’re ont he autism spectrum but just not call it a condition?

      As far as your coworkers, yes, if you tell them you find that sort of correction helpful, they are going to keep doing it when they notice you doing something they perceive as inappropriate or not responsive to social cues. If you find it demoralizing sometimes and helpful other times, you’ll have to properly tell them that. “Hey, I really appreciated you saying X last time but right now I’m having a hard time with the corrections now and I think I can handle it myself, can you step it back?” They aren’t going to know it’s no longer helpful if you don’t tell them.

      1. OntheSpectrum*

        Oh, it wasn’t just the jokes. I had a series of social missteps. The jokes were just the first indication I’d messed up at reading people (again).

        I’ve tried telling co-workers I don’t need their help, and it leads to them either a) being mad at me for being mean and/or b) pointing out with glee the next time I’ve messed up that I should have asked them. :(

        1. Poisson's Revenge*

          Just wanted to sympathize, bc I have trouble reading people myself. Mine is of the foot in mouth variety, but does cause me regular trouble. But everyone makes mistakes. The other day our CEO implied one of his department heads was fat in a badly-worded joke.

    2. Collie*

      Disclaimer: I am not on the spectrum.

      This sucks and I’m sorry. While I feel strongly that people should not have to hide or “misrepresent” parts of themselves to succeed, it often seems that is just the world we live in and in order to fight for visibility in the long run, we sometimes have to concede in the short-term. That said, is it possible to give them a vague “I have a history of having trouble in social situations (which is why I’m really excited about X-non-social-aspect-of-my-job). I hope you’ll let me know if you see me doing something faux pas. I’m really looking forward to this position and don’t want anything to jeopardize it.”

      I don’t know. That wording isn’t great and, frankly, it’s probably ableist and otherwise problematic — happy to take criticism on it; anyone else?

      1. Amy*

        If you don’t want to disclose, OP, I think this is the way to go. Acknowledge that this is an area where you sometimes struggle, and ask for specific feedback if something isn’t going well. (Plenty of people struggle with social stuff without any kind of diagnose-able thing behind it, so I don’t think this will out you or anything.) I’d leave off the part about not wanting to jeopardize the position–that sounds to me like you’re already expecting to do something firing-worthy, which isn’t the impression you want to give–but I like the first two sentences of Collie’s script.

        I do think it’s worth considering getting your diagnosis filed with HR as a thing needing accommodation, especially if you can think of specific accommodations that you could request. There are some protections that come with having an officially filed thing like that. But there are also downsides that come with disclosing (as you’ve experienced), so it’s up to you to decide if the protections are worth it.

    3. Claudia M.*

      I work as a middle manager for state government which employs about 3500 people on our main campus.

      I would not tell HR, but I would tell my immediate supervisor. They should be the buffer between you and upper management if any issues arise, and they are at a level they can directly assist with any problems. Arming your manager with that knowledge lets them fight for you; not against. (As long as your manager is not awful…)

      Additionally, because I recently faced this issue myself with employees, letting a manager know where your comfort zone is can be helpful.

      For example, if you were my employee and had disclosed all of the above information, I might try to assign you to projects more in your skill wheelhouse (specifically writing, based on the above). Not that you’re incapable of other tasks, just that playing to someone’s strength is always a better choice.

      I think not telling ANYONE would be risking the possibility of something unpleasant occurring, similar to previous events. I really hope you get a manager who’s competent and not patronizing, like some of your prior managers were…that really bothered me to read!

      1. OntheSpectrum*

        That sounds reasonable, thanks. I’ll probably go with that.

        I’ve had 50/50 luck with managers and, before that, teachers. Half of them love me, half of them hate me, and there’s genuinely no middle-ground. (Usually the difference is who is most likely to take advantage of the social contract, since I don’t know when I’m ignoring it, but that’s a whole *other* story…) You’ve made me realize I should prioritize talking to my potential new manager during the hiring process this time. And while I really do need a job right now, figure if I don’t get a good manager this time to do everything I can to get myself somewhere else where I do have a good one, whether at the same company or elsewhere.

      2. General Ginger*

        This sounds like a good option to me, though I would still wait and see how the environment felt, first.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      I second Triangle’s advice to suss out the environment a bit first.

      I was afraid to disclose my dyscalculia at Exjob, so I did not; I merely alluded to OldBoss that I had difficulty with math. In hindsight, I wish I had disclosed earlier; I think waiting until I was in trouble and NewBoss brought up the Excel work in my PIP left her with the impression I was faking to get out of doing something I didn’t like.

      Once I’d submitted documentation and she watched me struggle with a spreadsheet in a one-on-one, I think the impression of fakery was dispelled, but at that point, I was doomed anyway because the spreadsheet work was the main responsibility in the revamped position. But it did not help me in the least to hide it. Had I not done so, I could have met with her earlier and said, “This is documented; how are the changes going to affect me?” The entire no-information anxiety kerfuffle could have been avoided and I could have left the job on better terms.

      Ideally, you would have probed the culture a bit in the interview(s) if it were possible to do it without disclosing, but I know that’s not always the case. Hopefully this employer is very open and accommodating. Good luck!

    5. Godzilla*

      Wow! Until I got to the bit about the CEO I thought somebody had somehow stolen a letter I previously wrote to Alison. It is spooky how close your words are to mine. Alison very kindly gave me a reply and suggested that I ask my question here, which I declined to do for various reasons. I don’t have any really good advice for you since I’ve never actually gotten fired for that sort of stuff, but I imagine the reason for this is that I self-select out of jobs that require much interaction. Could you maybe try to find roles where you could be by yourself a lot? I’ve tried telling my coworkers a couple of times and they totally do not believe I am on the spectrum (I’m Aspy). My industry is full of militant individualists so I don’t stand out as much. I hope things work out for you!

    6. Brogrammer*

      How you’ll want to approach this depends on what sort of outcome you’re hoping to achieve. Are you hoping for formal accommodation? If so, what would that accommodation look like?

      If you do go the accommodation route, something I could see working is trying to get sort of a primer on the unwritten social rules of your new office. Some of the social heuristics you use will work as is, but each work environment is different so some will need to be recalibrated.

      1. OntheSpectrum*

        I don’t think I need formal accommodation. I’m a girl, so most of how to interact with people has been pounded into my brain by now by popular culture if nothing else. But a primer on the unwritten rules would be amazing if possible. But a lot of people like to pretend unwritten rules don’t exist…

        It’s really just going to come down to having an understanding boss who I can trust, I guess. Maybe third time’s the charm? ::fingers crossed:

        1. Amy*

          A lot of people don’t even realize the unwritten rules exist–they just do them without thinking about them, the same way we all just kind of know when to say ‘the apple’ vs ‘an apple’ (and to never say ‘a apple’). Unfortunately that makes it really hard to make a primer on them! If you don’t get it, usually people would never think to warn you until you’ve already broken it. :(

          I hope your next manager is understanding and gives you clear, constructive feedback you can follow!

    7. Making myself nuts...*

      I like Claudia M’s response. Keeps it on a need to know basis.

      P.S., One can never be too polite to the janitor.

      1. Lemon Zinger*

        My thoughts exactly. There is no reason to be anything but polite to EVERYONE you work with, from upper management to the people who clean the toilets.

        1. OntheSpectrum*

          Not if the top IT guy gets really offended you talk to him the same way you do the janitor, or if everyone else ignores the janitor so it stands out like a sore thumb that you chat with them, adding one more “weird” thing to the pile or making co-workers feel guilty because they don’t talk to him so they lash out at you…

          1. Natalie*

            Eh, in this case it sounds a bit like the IT guy is the one in the wrong.

            I’m sorry if this is totally presumptuous/incorrect, but do you think perhaps your ASD makes you second guess yourself more than needed when it comes to social situations? A lot of what you’ve described sounds quite normal, and where it’s abnormal it mostly sounds like your co-workers were the ones in the wrong. Is there someone you trust who is fairly socially savvy and could help you “reality check” interactions you’re unsure about? This is something I’ve had to do with my anxiety disorder and it can be very helpful.

            1. OntheSpectrum*

              I’m pretty sure he was, but he was also in a position of power above me and so it didn’t do me any good.

              Oh, it definitely makes me second-guess myself far, far more than I should! But more than once, I’ve thought to myself “Hey, normally I’d get freaked out about that, but I think that was actually okay there…” only to get called into HR for a lecture.

              I’ve tried for the reality check thing but it just doesn’t work if the “checker” don’t know everyone involved and see the situations as they come up.

              1. Natalie*

                Yeah, I definitely wasn’t think getting a second opinion will shield you from, say, a poorly run HR department. But maybe it would at least put your mind at ease that you’re not doing anything egregious?

                It does sound frustrating.

          2. LadyKelvin*

            I’m sorry you worked with jerks (and most places shouldn’t be like that, if you find yourself surrounded by people who judge based on jobs, then you should start looking for a new job. Because those people are jerks.) You should be polite and friendly with everyone you work with, not just people who are your “equals” or “superiors”. I’m not on the spectrum, but I know all the janitors and security guards by name, I know which ones are married and who has kids. We talk about weekend plans, etc whenever I see them. They are people so you should treat them like people. So my advice is that if people are angry that you are talking to people who are “below” you then you need to just keep repeating to yourself that they are jerks and you are not. And that’s ok.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              My grandfather had an Irish surname back when that was not a good thing in the eyes of society. He taught his daughters to speak to everyone in the same manner. Speak to the night watchman in the same manner as you speak to the CEO.
              Grandpa was never unemployed.
              And at his funeral the church was packed.

              What I am picking up on here is concern about what others think. And, you know what, OP? NONE of us will ever win that one. None of us will ever have everyone at work thinking positively of us at all times. It just won’t happen.
              The best we can do is be fair, be transparent and be sincere. Aim for these things rather than aiming for what other people may/may not think.

              1. only acting normal*

                My Grandpa was also very egalitarian like that, and his funeral was also packed. :)
                E.g. During WWII he was a Lance Corporal (one up from Private) stationed in Iraq; an officer was berating one of the local civilian staff for not stepping off a narrow path into mud to let him pass. Grandpa told the officer “don’t be ridiculous, it’s his country, you’re just a guest”. History does not record whether he was disciplined for that!

                I suspect he was on the spectrum as I’m fairly sure that’s the side of the family my autism comes from. I also have no time for treating different “ranks” differently: they’re all people, and therefore all get treated with the baseline level of respect.

                As for disclosure… Luckily I’m in an organisation where there are an unusually high proportion of spectrum dwellers, but disclosure can still be a minefield even here: from poor assumptions about what you can handle or not, to dismissing out-and-out asshattery as “probably on the spectrum” when most of the confirmed cases I know are perfectly lovely if occasionally awkward!

    8. Jbelly*

      Sometimes bad coworkers are bad coworkers. Or the environment is a bad fit. It doesn’t always mean it is about you – you’ve got enough on your plate to deal with, so no sense in adding that burden.

      That being said, I would wait to disclose this. Feel out the environment first. Maybe don’t disclose at all.

    9. Tau*

      Spectrum high five! I hear you on this front, even though I have apparently managed to stay under the radar socially so far, or at least no one’s said anything to me yet. (It probably helps that I’m in tech, which is often pretty accepting of social oddities.)

      Honestly, I’d try to avoid telling them, and don’t disclose myself. The downsides you describe are pretty significant, and the spectrum is present enough in popular culture and negatively stereotyped enough that I think you risk real splash damage. In fact, to some extent I worry that disclosing will cause the incidents you’re worried about: I myself am pretty certain that my veneer of neurotypical does not hold up to close inspection, and if I disclose that I’m on the spectrum I’m basically guaranteeing a close inspection. If an issue occurs in the new job, I’d think about bringing it up then, but not before.

      What I would suggest you also consider is thinkng what environments might work better for you than others when you search for jobs. Smaller, more casual companies with relatively flat hierarchies might help with the “too polite to the janitor/too rude to the CEO” problem, for instance. I’d almost certainly put my foot in it myself at a more rigidly hierarchical company.

      Finally, and I really hope this comes out right:

      I think that when you’re autistic it’s easy to end up under the impression that everyone around you is perfectly socially poised and you are the obvious exception who is blundering through like a bull in a china shop. But that’s just not the case. I promise you: there have been NT people who didn’t realise other people didn’t like their jokes before, there have been NT people who thought they could make friends with HR. It’s easy to make a thing like this into a huge deal in your head, or view it as proof that you’ll never manage to beat your autistic social difficulties… but it’s important to remember that other people aren’t necessarily viewing it that way. An occasional minor faux pas or social gaffe should not sink you, at least not in any environment worth working in.

      2. OntheSpectrum*

        High five! :D

        Hmm, more casual companies are usually smaller and don’t usually need writers so much, but maybe I can find something that works with my other skills. Certainly a good idea to consider. Agh, job searching is the figurative worst!

        May I ask, do you identify as male or female? I’ve noticed with my dad and brother (also on the spectrum), they get a pass on a lot more behaviors than I do. So I’m quite gloomy about the sexism thing. On the other hand, it would be nice to hear an encouraging story about an aspie woman in tech. :) I used to program, but gave it up when Impostor Syndrome hit me pretty badly.

          1. Tau*

            OK, that really sucks and the people who told you that were being asses. I know it’s not necessarily helpful to think that way when you’re stuck in the situation, but seriously. Not OK, and I hope you find an environment where people are better about this shit.

            Although now I’m curious as to whether you tried #9…

        2. Claudia M.*

          The gender thing is actually interesting, and something I’ve only started thinking about lately.

          In the govt. branch I work in, it is almost 80% women in management positions. Typically, it is looked upon as normal if someone is a little faux paus. But the men definitely get hit harder with consequences than the women.

          For example, a woman can run around ranting and raving and raising her voice (even threatening bodily violence) and only receives a warning, verbal or written, if anything. A man gets frustrated the same way (or even less visible to other coworkers) and gets a formal reprimand, and sent to various anger mgmt. trainings.

          This is an odd belief for me….when I just assume being horrible to each other should be something we avoid, and gender is irrelevant. Everyone needs to vent, but there should be a limit in the workplace.

          And our tech area is more like 95% female, entry level and management.

        3. Mints*

          Oh I just wanted to chime in that boys/men definitely get more leeway doing things that get scrutinized in girls/women. Women have a higher bar for being social, and we tend to get socialized to adapt better (harsher) in ways that men can let slide. Add that into it manifesting differently in boys than in girls, we’re probably vastly underdiagnosed

        4. Tau*

          I’m nonbinary but I pass as/am read as female in daily life and am fine with being counted as a woman for statistical purposes. ;) So I hear you about being given less leeway than the men, but it’s not the difference here. That said, the difference may really be tech – I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m still given more leeway than women in sales or female admins or, well, writers. And before I was a developer I was in maths, and mathematicians are also not generally expected to be the most socially competent. It may be that that camouflage is and was helping even more than I figure.

          Ugh, I’m sorry, Impostor Syndrome sucks! It’s part of what drove me out of maths, so I really sympathise. (Although the other big part was that it turns out academia and executive dysfunction really don’t mesh well.) If you enjoyed programming, I do encourage you to see if you can find your way back into it. Too many women get driven out one way or the other. And – between me and you – there are some truly appalling programmers out there who somehow manage to do it for a living anyway. (Guess who’s had to maintain their code…) Trust me, you’d have to be actively trying to be nearly as bad!

        5. Close Bracket*

          Sounds like going back into programming and working from home might be perfect for you. Do you know about this website?

          https://powertofly.com/

          Look for coping strategies for the impostor syndrome. I bet a CBT based approach would work well. No reason to pass on a career without other people bc of a cognitive distortion. :)

    10. kittymommy*

      I would get the lay of the land and then tell people as you feel comfortable. I also wouldn’t worry too much about the HR thing, it’s something a lot of people don’t know, including hr.

      And your manager who had someone babysit you and blamed “a condition” sucks.

    11. Mints*

      You’re still job hunting? I’d try to work a little into the interview process. I like Collie’s lines, but generally just being “I strongly prefer direct interaction, and tend to miss things if people rely on hints or implicit expectations. I work better when people tell me about potential problems early on.” (That might need softening so it doesn’t sound like you like to be yelled at?)

      I’m not diagnosed but I think I would have been with Aspergers as a kid if my teachers had been familiar with it. I tell close friends (and internet strangers) that “I have a lot of Aspie traits” even though it’s mostly not recognizable

      1. OntheSpectrum*

        That sounds like a good script! I could also tie into it if I get the “weakness” question mentioned above. And you know, if I phrase it like that I could probably avoid bringing it up. Just focus on the directness being part of my personality… Hmm, but probably still a good idea to tell my direct manager if they seem nice.

        I really appreciate all the solid advice from everyone, by the way. This has been worrying me for over a year now and with my get-a-real-job-or-move-back-in-with-the-folks deadline coming up I’ve been getting panicky.

        1. Mints*

          Yeah I’ll tell anybody “I like when people are direct with me” just like “I like working with Excel” but have only told a couple people about the Aspie stuff. I think looking for a manager who seems nice enough that you’ll feel comfortable disclosing is a good thing to screen for, even if you’re not planning to tell anyone else.

          Good vibes to you!

    12. Hazel Asperg*

      I’ve had really similar experiences: I can’t often ‘do’ the social things. People seem to think I’ll pick up on these things eventually, not realising that in some/most cases I just never will.

      In my current job I’ve gone with being open in order to temper people’s expectations of my social abilities. Luckily, social skills are not a part of my job (except in the vague sense that one is to be polite with one’s coworkers) so as far as I know, so far it hasn’t affected my job in a negative fashion.

      I wish you lots of luck. I’m also happy to talk more about this if you wish.

    13. D.A.R.N.*

      On the spectrum, haven’t read all comments under yours yet, buuut…
      I’ve been handling it by not mentioning it and going “Oh, sorry, I’m a little awkward”, or “Oh, I miss sarcasm a lot” and not mentioning autism AT ALL. I don’t trust the non-autistic people to treat me like a person if they know I’m autistic (if they even believe that I AM, and not assume I’m making shit up). What I focus on is naming the action and not the disorder.

      So for your joke issue? “Oh, sorry, I misunderstood the laughter. I’ll keep the jokes to a minimum now.” Reason for the jokes: Autism. Problem that needs fixing: the jokes, not the autism. So that’s how I’ve dealt with it.

      And for the record, the first situation is exactly why I don’t tell people. I completely sympathize with how aggravating it is to have everyone assume you’re the problem because you have a disorder even when it isn’t, assuming you’re less-capable because of it even though you’ve managed to survive up ’til now just fine, etc. All the offensive stereotypes balled up into a “but I’m helping!” insult. :T

      1. Wheezy Weasel*

        I like the ‘naming the action’ strategy. Unless you’re making 10+ corrections a day with a particular individual, I can’t see that this will stand out and affect your reputation in a new company. To me, it’s actually a sign of strength and introspectiveness that many people can’t access. My typical defense mechanism for criticism is to double down and deny the issue exists, but I’ve started to apologize quickly and then drop the subject, and it’s made a positive impression on my friends and work colleagues.

      2. OntheSpectrum*

        The more I think on it, the more this sounds like a good idea. I’ll have to practice not over-explaining a little bit, but with a script in mind I should be fine. :)

        1. Lab Monkey*

          I’m also nb-but-read-as-female and autistic, and this is my strategy. I’ve tried telling and not telling, and the only times telling helped were when I did shift work and needed a set pattern – and not even then. Focusing on what I’m doing wrong vs making my way of being wrong is really helpful for me.

      3. Mimmy*

        I too like the “name the action” strategy. Once you start putting a label on the issue, people can have misconceptions about you solely based on that label.

    14. Close Bracket*

      Hi OntheSpectrum,

      I have no good advice, but I have a ton of sympathy. I have never been diagnosed as on the spectrum, but I am also a woman, and I share a lot of behaviors and missteps with you. I fully understand the bind that you are in where other people are sometimes the problem, but they outrank you so you are stuck trying to figure out what they expect so you can pacify them.

      And you hit it on the nose about social mistakes. Women are supposed to be socially perfect, and the kinds of awkward or abrasive things that men can get away with are absolutely not ok when women do them.

      I’m sorry that society stinks, and I hope you are treated well in your next job.

  14. krysb*

    So, I’ve been given the opportunity to put together a plan for an employee training and development position and create a program around it. This is really exciting because it is right in line with my career trajectory. I’ll have to defend it before the Leadership Committee, but it appears that we have some buy-in he president. We have had continuous issues with utilization of our training program (which I also helped create) due to a company culture that focuses on billable work at the expense of long-term programs that yield positive results. Does anyone have any first hand experience with creating such a program? Success, failure, pitfalls?

    1. DecorativeCacti*

      My suggestion is to have a plan before you start and make sure you stick to the plan. If you’re relying on anyone else to create materials, really stay on top of them. We started a project to revamp our training materials at my office but the person in charge of the project wasn’t good at follow through and so it was never completed and hasn’t been touched in two years or more. It’s incredibly difficult because now everything is in this weird limbo.

    2. Jules the Third*

      Incentives matter. Use that perceived buy-in to make sure that company incentives are aligned with the overall program. For example, if billable hours are an important metric for bonuses, then make sure training hours are baked into the assessment criteria. Maybe the bonus criteria could be ‘billable + training’, for example. That lets you sell it to employees as ‘here’s a way to keep working towards your bonuses if customer work slows down’.

      Asking for that also lets you assess how much buy-in there is, and who is against it. Try to sell it to the biggest resister, tailoring examples of the benefits to her / his experience. If you can get them on board, they will pull along a lot of reluctant people.

    3. Anon attorney*

      I have done this in a pre-legal previous life. I think it’s essential to treat such a program as a change leadership/OD activity and not a training course. Everything else – senior sponsorship, buy in, evaluation – flows from a clear understanding of the cultural and organisational change you want to produce. Also to measure the relevant skills at baseline ie. before you do the training so you can demonstrate return on investment (also requires sensible KPIs, tricky when going for behavioral change, assuming this is the goal rather than hard skills development). And don’t get discouraged because it takes longer than you think to make progress. Hope this helps! You’re doing the good work :)

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Upper management across the board needs to buy into the importance of a training program. It is going to be a rough ride if people are not granted hours for training.

  15. Chriama*

    Question – how do you respond to a ‘keep in touch’ email after turning a position down? As in, I turned a position down and the HM said thanks and that he hopes to keep in touch. Do I respond to that?

    1. Protein Muffin*

      Have you already connected on LinkedIn? You could reply. “That would be great, I will you connect to you on LinkedIn. Thanks!”

      Or just, “Thanks for understanding, I look forward to connecting with you in the future.”

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      Synergy. I get eye twitchy at the word. One of my old bosses used it ALL THE TIME. Sadly, there was none…ever.

    3. Pwyll*

      I agree with Protein Muffin.

      There’s also really no reason to respond at all. I only use that phrase when hiring when I really did like the candidate and think they’d be a great fit in the company, but I’m not really expecting a response. I usually mean it to say, “We thought you were great and are sad you didn’t take this, so if anything changes in the future or a position comes available please feel free to contact us.”

  16. Emmie*

    What business jargon words would you ban? The thread earlier this week had me thinking.

    I’d ban Deck (= PowerPoint), hill to die on, optics, bio break, and political capital.

    1. Christy*

      Why do you hate optics and political capital? Or rather, what would you use to describe these phenomena?

      I too loathe bio break.

      1. Emmie*

        I don’t have a good reason, Christy! I would probably use “it looks bad,” or describe how it impacts what we’re talking about. Political capital was helpful term when it started being used, but it feels overused now.

        2. KellyK*

          Going to the bathroom, getting a drink, grabbing food. I think it’s more MMO gamer jargon than work jargon.

        3. LKW*

          Yes – it’s code for “we’ve been talking for two hours and everyone is squirming”

        4. Tedious Cat*

          Yep. I’ve most often heard it in the context of MMORPGs and have always considered it both too niche and too explicit for a work environment.

        5. General Ginger*

          Bio break makes me think back to my WoW days; it feels like a really weird phrase for an office.

        6. Merula*

          I had an old boss who would use “bio break” at work ALL THE TIME. Why do you have to say “bio”? Why can’t it just be “break”? Or “short break” if you don’t want it to be “step out into the hall to make 15-minute phone calls”?

          This boss was DEFINITELY NOT in the MMO gamer category.

      3. Zip Silver*

        I didn’t realize bio-break was a “businessy” term. I’ve always used it on MMO’s.

    2. Variations on a theme*

      I wouldn’t ban any specific terms. They can sometimes be helpful. (I also work in marketing so YMMV!)

      I WOULD ban specific people who use them inappropriately or in the place of actual sentences as an attempt to sound smart/put together/on top of things.

      Looking at you, former boss man. :|

    4. Teapot Queen*

      “your challenge” to me equals “a big pain in the arse for you.” I hate that expression.

    5. Anxa*

      A lot of words are really cringey to me, but “deck” is the worst for some reason. Does not compute.

      1. Natalie*

        It’s a shortening of “slide deck”, with deck meaning “set” as in a deck of cards.

      2. Emi.*

        In my office, people call powerpoint slides “charts.” I’m like, That is literally just a big rectangle that says “QUESTIONS?” on it. It is not a chart. But as long as it’s reasonably free of chartjunk, I’m happy.

    6. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I loathe “we can discuss this offline,” when currently talking in person.

      Also “efolder.” Guys, it’s 2017, you can call folders on our network shared drives just “folders,” we all know it’s on the computer.

    7. Alex*

      I would ban acronyms. Not everyone knows what they mean, or they could have different meanings for different people or groups. I like clarity.

      1. Queen of the File*

        I’m sort of with you, but I’d spend 40% more of my life typing if I had to spell out every abbreviation we use here. My solution is to keep the office glossary as up to date with them as possible, and spell out anything that’s potentially uncommon/confusing the first time I use it in a document.

      2. JulieBulie*

        I love acronyms… that is, I love making up alternatives for what they stand for.

    8. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      Ping and in the can are two words/phrases that drive me nuts. I know they are very normal words for some reason whenever they’re used around my office, I just try not to roll my eyes.

      1. Trix*

        We use ping at my office, always specifically referring to sending someone a message in Skype for Business (which most of us still call Lync, because that’s much less of a mouthful), but after reading the thread the other day, I got the impression that some people use it for in-person conversation? Like, “I’ll ping Bob to ask for those figures,” when they mean they’ll stop by Bob’s desk or call him or something.

        Is that a thing? Or did I misinterpret the thread? When talking about some kind of instant messenger, I have no problem with it, it’s a useful shorthand . But it would definitely bug me if someone meant it another way.

        1. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

          A lot of senior staff will say oh, ping Hermione for that or I need to ping Hermione for that info. But there is no context about what context that’s in. It’s never used for internal communication either which is odd.

      2. Mints*

        Ping annoys me too! It’s a computer science measurement, not an email/call/smoke signal

        “I’ll ask her” “I’ll check in” “I’ll call her” > “I’ll ping her”

        1. Emi.*

          I always assumed it was named after the “ping” sound of a chat notification, or a sonar ping.

        2. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

          I have a senior staff member who uses it all the time. I was in a meeting with her and she said it 9 times! Why?!?

        3. Tau*

          What do you mean, I definitely contact my colleagues by sending them multiple 32-byte packets of data and then counting the milliseconds to see how long it takes them to respond to each one. Doesn’t everyone?

      4. Nan*

        Ping drives me bonky. I actually asked CurrentBoss if she could not say ping, because OldBoss said ping all the time. He drove us both nuts. We have banned ping from our vocabulary.

    9. Clever Name*

      I’d ban “low-hanging fruit” because my last boss, who was a lazy asshole, used it all the time, and I will forever associate it with “not wanting to do actual work”.

    10. Not my Circus, Not my Monkeys*

      Not hill to die on! I just learned that one from AAM and love it!

      Mine would be “socialize” as in we have to socialize that solution for stakeholder input.

        1. Trying to Transition*

          +1
          “Going forward” is overly used in my office, and it drives me crazy.

          In Toastmasters they count the number of time the speaker uses filler words, I’ve started doing the same in meetings with this saying and “next steps”. UGH!

        2. apparently not the only fashion designer here*

          I’ve got one better for you: “go forward”. One of the ladies who used to work with me said it and somehow got almost everyone on our team to do it too. “So for go forward, we’ll do…” Please don’t. Ugh.

      2. General Custer*

        I used hill to die on once, and someone complained to my boss that it was unprofessional.

    11. Jan Levinson*

      I don’t think this is necessarily business jargon, but everyone at my company uses ‘thx’ for ‘thanks’ (even in email conversation with customers). I just think it looks unprofessional, and it literally takes half a second longer to type the whole word out!

      1. Emilia Bedelia*

        A significant number of people I work with (mostly international) use “best regards” as their email closing, and abbreviate it to “BR”. It drives me crazy- for some reason, I don’t believe these regards are really your “best” if you can’t be bothered to spell it out.

        2. nep*

          Ugh. BR. Cannot stand that.
          I can’t believe how many colleagues send out emails with punctuation faces — including my supervisor. How ridiculous.

        3. Not So NewReader*

          I feel that way about TY. Is it really that hard to type out thank you after a person has put in long hours on something? Apparently, the answer is yes, it is just way too hard.

          1. Laura*

            I’ll use that stuff in texting. Rarely.

            My emails are formal (prolly also longer than they should be, but- I use complete sentences like my life depends on it.)

            Abbreviations are iffy. Like if someone put “BR” on its own in a work email- I’d wonder where the rest of the item number was!!

            1. Not So NewReader*

              I can see it in texting.
              My person was leaving hand written notes with TY at the bottom. So sad.

    12. Triangle Pose*

      None of them? I really dont get the hate for many of the words or phrases from the other thread. They mean things. Yes, there are other words that mean the same thing. In almost all the cases from the other thread the person griping with the jargon knows exactly what the terms means and just takes issue the speak didn’t use some other work. Sometimes the new word is more nuanced, sometimes it’s broader, sometimes it connotes a different tone. I liked the commenter who said we’re not under an obligation as humans to use the lowest common denominator in language, especially in cases where absolutely no one is confused.

      1. Nan*

        For me, it’s not about the word, but associating the word with the person who uses it. Normally a person I don’t like, but have to be nice to anyway. Because professional.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Exactly. I had a person in my life who had a knack for saying DUH like she was stabbing you with a very long pointy object. Think skewered meat on a grill.

          I tried to tell myself I have having an overreaction. When in Rome, right? One day I used the term, after avoiding it for so long. This person almost fell over, the look of shock on her face was incredible. After that we heard DUH a lot less.

          Words can be like bullets… or long pointy objects depending on the voice inflection, the body posture and the personality involved.

    13. Havarti*

      Someone calls an electronic file a “softcopy” (as opposed to “hardcopy”) but I had never heard it so I was horribly confused when they asked me what they should do with the softcopy. I was like “The what now? o_O”

      1. Queen of the File*

        Hm. From now on I’ll be using the term “wetcopy” for a document that’s still floating around in my mind waiting to be made manifest. :)

      2. JulieBulie*

        I don’t know if this is news to anyone besides me, but apparently “hardcopy” can now refer to a file that’s on a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM as opposed to a file that either resides on your computer or is accessed remotely.

        Is this widespread? It’s very confusing.

        1. Havarti*

          That’s certainly news to me. “Hardcopy” is limited to the physical printout on paper for my workplace. Boss would not be happy if I tossed a CD on their desk lol!

    14. Claudia M.*

      Take this offline, table this for another time, circle the wagons, put that on deck.

      Seriously, just stop and use normal words. These things are often improperly used so I spend more time trying to figure out what they actually meant then listening to them continue to speak.

      And in a company with MANY different languages spoken and a culturally diverse populace, things like this can get even MORE confusing. Idioms don’t make sense for everyone.

    15. Mapp*

      Not exactly business jargon–just more of a cliche I keep seeing all over the place lately–but every time I hear “full-throated” I feel a little bit ill. I get it what it means, but ew.

    16. DecorativeCacti*

      I had a manager who CONSTANTLY used “FYI” and “effective immediately”. They aren’t necessarily jargon, but they were severely overused. I rewrite whole paragraphs now if I catch myself using either one. It’s really frustrating because sometimes I really need to say something is effective immediately!

    19. Collie*

      I don’t like “clients,” particularly when the “clients” are either internal or not paying for the service or both.

      1. Feo Takahari*

        “Clients” is the term the Red Cross uses as a way of avoiding the term “victims.” People feel better about being a client than a victim.

          1. Anna Held*

            Nah, your examples would bother me too. But in social services it has become common to say “clients” so you can avoid loaded terms like “victims”, “the indigent”, or “poor”. It’s a very neutral term, but like so many of these, industry-specific.

    20. Drew*

      This one hasn’t been used at my current workplace (yet), but I heard from a friend that his HR department sent around email saying “We regret to announce that Fergus McExworker has been outboarded. We wish him well.”

      He and I both thought it made Fergus sound like a boat motor.

      1. Nan*

        Ha! For a while, we didn’t fire people, we “de-hired” them. “I’ll be back in 10 minutes, I need to go de-hire Fergus.”

        And then there’d be the email that Fergus was no longer with us. I didn’t kill the man!! I just packed his box.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        LOL, what did they do throw him overboard? Can he swim? Outboarded seems a bit much.

    21. Beancounter Eric*

      BAN:

      Optics
      Reach Out
      Bio Break
      Ask (“Our ask is”)
      Leverage (outside the physics and financial uses)
      Circle Back
      Deep dive
      Thought leader
      Transformational Change

      3. I am here now*

        Reach out – gives me creepy image of gnarly hands coming slowly towards me to grab me. Also, I don’t like people to touch me and “reach out” sounds touchy.

    22. General Ginger*

      Me too with the cringing at Deck. For some reason, it always rubs me the wrong way.

    23. EA in Rainy Florida*

      As one of my friends has in his Lync status: “Ask is a verb. The word you are looking for is request”

    24. Lady Russell's Turban*

      We use “bio break” when hiking/backpacking. I have never heard it in a work context before.

    25. MsEsq*

      Deep dive. I am not sure why this one rankles me, but it started when I read it in a student cover letter I was editing – “I am known for my interest in taking deep dives…” I think I find it to be incredibly pretentious

    26. Lady Alys*

      Using “reach out” instead of “call” or “contact” ….. kill me now.

    27. Queen of the File*

      Nouns becoming verbs which become nouns again makes me want to walk out of a meeting and never come back:
      Day 1: “Let’s wait until our plans are more concrete.”
      Day 206: “Let’s concretize these plans first.”
      Day 393: “The concretization of our plans has not yet occurred.”
      *dies*

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Just goes to show, if you don’t know what word to use, just make one up. It’s fine.

    28. Pwyll*

      Cadence. We use cadence.

      As in, “We need to establish the proper cadence for these meetings” which really just means, “How often should we meet?”

    29. JulieBulie*

      I have a friend who says “ASAP” (pronounced as a word) frequently. I don’t think he knows that it means “as soon as possible.” I don’t know what he thinks it means. He uses it sort of like punctuation to be emphatic.

    30. Roly Poly Bat Faced Girl*

      Swirl. As in, “There’s a lot of swirl around this issue” meaning people are getting up in arms about something. I’ve been searching for another word to replace it, but haven’t found a suitable substitute yet.

    31. Candy*

      I hate “onboarding.” I’ve never actually heard it used IRL, just here, but for some reason it drives me crazy. You’re training someone, not loading them onto an airplane!

      1. Queen of the File*

        I can’t hear this term without mentally replacing it with “waterboarding”.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Could be me, but if they use the word “onboarding” it’s because they don’t train. But they’d like to train. Some day. Years from now.

    32. Elizabeth H.*

      Utilize! Utilize! Utilize! This is more general society than business jargon but obviously it is much more rampant in the business world. There is almost never an occasion where it’s actually most appropriate to say “utilize” instead of “use.” Yes there are some, but we as the human species wouldn’t suffer too much if utilize was always changed to use.

      Others: ask as noun, gift as verb, overuse of impact.

      I was intrigued that so many people hated “planful” and considered it business jargon. I’ve never heard it as business jargon. It seems like a normal, rarely used and kind of archaic or old-fashioned sounding word to me.

      1. Anxa*

        Utilize is really looked down upon in the science writing world (although still common in the science writing world), and I had always thought I was just hypersensitive to its overuse because of that.

    34. Not So NewReader*

      Signage.
      Why, why, why.
      We had a perfectly good word, signs. We could use that, but nooooo. Dunno why but I connect “signage” with “snow job” every time I see it.

      Plan-o-gram. I think this word was made up by the same person who invented “signage”. I had to control my laughter when I heard ADULTS saying “Let’s check the plan-o-gram.” I kept waiting for them to pull out an Etch-a-Sketch.

    35. Chaordic One*

      Some of the jargony terms that my former workplace used a lot and that bugged me included:

      “reach out,” “push back,” “buy in,” and “building community”

      A couple of other terms that bugged me were:

      “stewardship” and “servant leadership”

      I was mostly annoyed by those last two terms because my employer misused them.

    36. Bea W*

      Transversal, as in working tranversally. What in the actual heck?
      Restacking, usually done for “more effective adjacencies” FFS, just say you’re moving people around so they can sit next to people they work with.
      Doing more with less, “lean”
      Using “QC” as a verb

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        Stakeholder.

        No. A Stakeholder is a wooden spike wielding vampire hunter. Another pet hate is Client-Centricity. What’s wrong with client focus?

        A previous Director used to fill his meeting presentations with this drivel. I decided, that since I was writing the minutes, none of it would be included unless it was unavoidable.

    37. Sail On, Sailor*

      Drill down
      Ask (used as a noun)
      Onboarding
      And if I hear “reach out” (instead of contact) one more time, I may scream.

  17. WaitingforMacaroni*

    I’m wondering if that post where the person was concerned about exposed shoulder cut outs in women’s wear modified or clarified their dress code. Because this appears to be the fashion of the summer and I see it in all the stores…

    I would rather see that style of shirt than the see-through neon yellow shirt with the hot pink bra I saw in the office last summer.

    1. Clever Name*

      Swimsuits are in all the stores now, but that doesn’t make them work appropriate.

      1. Triangle Pose*

        I think WaitingforMacaroni means she’s seeing it in all of the stores that cater to office clothing. And she’s right. Ann Taylor and Loft and Banana all have cold shoulder tops right now in their workwear sections (not casualwear with all the sundresses and vacation clothing) – they are made of materials traditionally associate with officewear, are often styled for the office except for the glaring flaw of the cold shoulder cut-out or off the shoulder design.

        THIS BOTHERS ME TOO.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I hate trends like this. It becomes very difficult to find work-appropriate clothing without shopping at the same store my grandmother would have gone to. It seems like everything is either naked or Victorian; there’s no in-between.

          And why does ALL summer wear have to be sleeveless!? I have a big tattoo on my upper arm and don’t always want to wear a damn jacket or cardigan to cover it. Or show my upper arms or pits at all!

          1. k*

            I’m a fellow sleeveless-hater. And then half them time when there are sleeves, they’re those little cap sleeve that don’t even count. Is it so much to ask to want to keep my armpits to myself?

            1. zora*

              HAHA! I don’t know why, but I love the phrasing of keeping my armpits to myself.

              And also I 100% feel the same way about my armpits!!

          2. tiny temping teapot*

            I like a nice three quarters sleeve paper thin cardigan. (Well, not actually paper thin.) I have one from the Gap I’m wearing right now and you can’t see any of my tattoos are either arm, also not overheating in the office.

            1. Jadelyn*

              I’m a big fan of short-sleeve cardigans. I have a couple that are basically thin cotton t-shirt material, regular short-sleeves, open front and they work beautifully for summer. Plus I can strip it off the second I step out into the parking lot and be running around in a tank top the way I prefer (I live in California, don’t judge me).

          3. Jadelyn*

            Naked or Victorian, ugh, yes. Or covered in huge gaudy prints. My kingdom for a workwear store that carries plus sizes and long-length pants, and everything is moderately cut and in simple colors or subtle patterns.

              1. Jadelyn*

                I’ve actually bought work pants from Lands End before because they carry *long* pants – I need a 33″ inseam and you don’t find those everywhere – but I’ve never really shopped through them for anything else. Never heard of J Jill though, may have to check that out. Thanks!

            2. Bilbiovore*

              what you are asking for is my Eileen Fisher uniform. The material wears forever and there can be good deals on-line at the end of the season. Everything goes together like Garanimals for grownups. The pieces can dress up or down.

              1. Jadelyn*

                So I looked them up and was getting cautiously excited until I looked at the prices. Even their on-sale stuff is still $70! My budget doesn’t stretch that far, sadly. Thanks for the suggestion though!

                1. Bilbiovore*

                  oh, I KNOW! but seriously….I am not kidding when I say “wears forever” I buy one or two pieces a year from the site on big reduction. (so just ignore the regular prices as they will give you a heart attack) So if a sweater costs 138.00- my magic number, I hand wash it, and I wear it for 8 to 10 years, that is pretty amazing. Also, depending on where you live, I have had great success getting Eileen Fisher jackets and sweaters at resale shops.
                  And it is kind of a capsule wardrobe. Right now in rotation- two skirts- one A-line, one lantern, one pair of lantern pants, one cropped (I am really short so actually regular on me) two shells. A cardigan and a “boxy” sweater. One viscose dress. Bought this year- 2016/2017- the dress, one merino sweater, one cotton sweater. All of these in shades of grey and charcoal. For the most part cheaper foundation garments in black – leggings, shells and tanks and cotton stretch long sleeve shirts.

            3. Ally A*

              Oh my god, the ankle length pants. Everything is cropped at this weird length! It’s impossible to find full-length work pants these days. (Or full-length jeans, which for me, are work pants)

              1. Anxa*

                Cropped flares, too, don’t forget!

                No but seriously, I think that ankle pants look cute. But I cannot figure out how to pair them with full-coverage non-sneaker shoes. I have a crusade against ballet flats: I think they are cute, but I hate how I feel like women are being expected to wear heals or half-shoes.

                I’ve worked in labs and while ballet shoes and sandals are common, ostensibly you should be wearing socks and shoes. I don’t care what people say about flared pants and boot cuts, at least they didn’t showcase your shoes. I feel like skinny jeans and ankle cut pants drive the need for a more robust shoe collection. And I don’t think anyone should feel frumpy because they want shoes that cover their full feet.

                1. Jadelyn*

                  You can pry my bootcut full-length jeans from my cold, dead hands for this exact reason. I have like. 2 pairs of shoes that I wear regularly? Maybe? I have my summer work sandals and my winter work shoes, and in my off hours I’m either wearing the work shoes (in the cold) or just slippers (in summer). I don’t like having to coordinate shoes with outfits more than once in awhile, so black ankle boots/black sandals under boot-cut jeans is my go-to uniform, and I deeply resent trends that try to pull me away from that lol.

            4. Windchime*

              Yes: Because not all generously-proportioned women want to have a giant, colorful flowers or kittens emblazoned across our clothes.

              Another work trend that bugs me is cropped or “ankle” pants. I’m tall and already have trouble finding pants long enough; now I have to wear ankle pants?? On purpose??

          4. HR Bee*

            My new office at my new job is right in the center of the building, has little ventilation, and is always warm. I just purchased a very, very thin open cardigan with short (like, covers the deltoid but not the bicep short) sleeves. It’s not even June yet and this thing is already a lifesaver; I can wear it with sleeveless or cap-sleeve shirts and not have to worry about pits or feeling too naked. It’s lace-backed and so thin, it barely adds any weight/heat. I’m in a pretty casual environment, though, so YMMV.

          5. Havarti*

            And sometimes you just want to hide the fact you forgot to shave your armpits that day…

          6. Smiling*

            I’m in the Deep South where sleeveless to work in Summer is fairly common (especially when A/Cs are set at 80 degrees in the office).

            However, something about the cold should trend for work wear bothers me too.

          7. Anxa*

            There’s a real unmet need for summer work blouses with substantial sleeves that lay flat under a cardigan.

            I will never understand how there are thousands of fashion/manufacturing companies and still no solutions to common fashion problems.

            Also, slim fit undershirts for women. Not camis, but something that actually provides a barrier at the armpit, but doesn’t affect the silhouette much.

            1. Windchime*

              Yes! And is not skin-tight and hot because of all the spandex. I can barely find normal camisoles to wear under work tops; everything is tight and plastic-y feeling.

          8. Bea W*

            I don’t mind sleeveless on really hot days, except the office is generally to cold for it. The should cut outs…WTH? It just looks stupid. Either have a sleeve or not. What is this weird hole where they shoulder is? That may be fine for evening wear, but I think it looks totally weird in a casual or work context.

        2. WaitingforMacaroni*

          Yes, exactly.

          It doesn’t bother me as long as the top itself is still presentable, not see-through, or has plunging neckline, etc. I find its a fresh change from the usual summer wear.

          It’s still better than (in my opinion) hot pink bras, see-through leggings, short-shorts, yoga pants instead of slacks, etc. It all depends on where you work.

          1. KellyK*

            Yeah, I’m not bothered by shoulder cutouts either. I think they can make an outfit either more casual or the wrong kind of dressy for work (club or date dressy rather than office professional). But a lot of that depends on the overall style of the shirt, as well as the type of cutouts.

            Like, the first shirt here reads as more work appropriate than the second. (I think it’s kind of ugly, actually, but the collar and the pinstripes keep it more professional than the lacy one that looks like lingerie.)

            https://www.anntaylor.com/striped-cold-shoulder-flounce-shirt/441052?skuId=23273726&defaultColor=1002&colorExplode=false&catid=cata000010

            https://www.anntaylor.com/striped-lacy-cold-shoulder-blouse/430520?skuId=22962423&defaultColor=1716&colorExplode=false&catid=cata000010

            And then there’s this one (https://www.anntaylor.com/bare-shoulder-blouse/430156?skuId=22582935&defaultColor=9192&colorExplode=false&catid=cata000010). I’m not sure if it’s work appropriate or not. It’s definitely not casual, and the shoulder cutouts are much more “decorative embellishment” than “my clothes are falling apart in a terribly sexy manner.” I’d want a camisole under that deep a V-neck, I think.

        3. LKW*

          Bothers me so much. I hate the term. I hate the look. I hate that I will be seeing this in my client’s more casual work environment. The cold shoulder office shirt should be paired with a full shouldered jacket.

        4. Lady Russell's Turban*

          I really dislike them in a professional office context. I know it is just a shoulder but they just seem too flirty/sexual for the office.

          1. Anxa*

            To me they don’t seem flirty so much as they seem aggressively trendy. I feel like there’s no practical reason for the cut out for most people. I’m sure some people want something to cover a tattoo on their forearm that’s still breezy or whatever, but they are just so aggressively non-practical that it turns me off.

      2. fposte*

        Yeah, there was a funny digression yesterday about the stuff StitchFix is sending people for officewear that is utterly unsuitable for most offices.

      3. Rosamond*

        Yeah..I’m frustrated because I’m trying to upgrade my professional wardrobe, and most everything in stores right now is super-duper not appropriate for a business-casual boss lady.

    2. No, please*

      I kind of wonder if those tops will become more office appropriate as time goes on? Plenty of styles that started as casual are now okay for work.

      1. INFJ*

        I have a feeling that may happen. I’m hoping the trend is transitory, though; I’m not a big fan of it.

    3. Zule*

      I was thinking about that the other day too because I was in the bank and all three employees (manager and 2 tellers) had cold shoulder tops on. It was not casual Friday, although in my region of the country banks seem to be more casual than they are elsewhere.

    4. LizB*

      I like the satire article that’s been going around entitled something like “Do you love yourself enough to wear shirts with actual sleeves?” But mostly because cold-shoulder tops look ridiculous on me so I hate them.

      1. fposte*

        Funnily enough, big sleeves are apparently the big fashion trend on the catwalks this year.

    5. Tedious Cat*

      I would have assumed they were a hard no at NewJob once I was told jeans and sandals were out, but I see cold shoulders here, including on the HR person who told me no jeans or sandals. (I see jeans occasionally and sandals all the time. I’m confused but unwilling to test anything myself after only two months.)

      1. Jadelyn*

        “No sandals” might’ve meant “no flipflops or casual sandals” – we have that rule but we’re fine with more professional-looking sandals. We just don’t want you slap-slap-slap walking down the halls like you’re going to the beach.

        1. Tedious Cat*

          That would make sense, but she actually explicitly said no sandals or open-toed shoes. I haven’t followed up because I suspect it’s one of those on-the-books rules that’s quietly ignored and I have no desire to bring it to anyone’s attention, and also, I’d really need to keep up with the pedicures.

    6. Lily in NYC*

      I have such a visceral hatred for those shirts! They are all the rage with my mom’s friends in FL (a bunch of old ladies with bad taste in clothing).

    7. Tedious Cat*

      I don’t even object on the grounds of too sexy for the office. I just think they’re dumb. Oops, I left half my sleeves at home! But I also think leggings are not pants, and I’m pretty sure that war’s been lost in general, though not at the office.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      I went into a doctor’s office the other day and a woman was wearing a black shirt with cutouts all across the top of it and on the sleeves. It looked odd because no one else was dressed that way. And because the shirt did not move WITH her, it stayed behind or went in its own direction.

      I liked the shirt, I might wear it myself, but not to work in a medical office.

  18. So anon for this*

    My coworker and I both have spouses who work in the same industry in similar jobs. He mentioned that his spouse, Sansa, works at a pretty lousy company. As it happens, my spouse Jon’s workplace is hiring for a couple positions that’s would work closely with him (and so he has some say in the hiring process). They’ve been having a tough time finding quality candidates, and they’re getting pretty desperate. One of those positions is exactly what Sansa does, so I told my coworker about it, thinking it’d be a win-win for everyone: Jon would be able to help his company fill the position with someone qualified, and Sansa could get a new job at an awesome company. My coworker seemed to think Sansa would be super excited about it, and Jon was pretty pleased when I told him about Sansa, too.

    As hoped, Sansa sent Jon her resume…. but it was awful. I mean, it was really, really bad. It came off as completely tone-deaf to not just the norms of the industry, but to job applications in general.

    In order to avoid any potential awkwardness between me and my coworker, Jon had his coworker interview Sansa. That way, if it didn’t go well, it could be blamed on him rather than Jon.

    But I’m still pretty baffled at how off-base Sansa’s resume was. Perhaps more baffling is that my coworker and I work in a department that deals with tons of resumes and cover letters all the time. He should definitely know the standards regarding resumes, so I’m not sure how Sansa’s could be as off as it is.* I feel like someone has to tell Sansa that her resume is NOT what resumes should look like. Is there any way I can help Sansa that is polite and not disrespectful to her or my coworker, or should I just drop it and hope Sansa figures it out eventually?

    *Obviously, it’s possible that Sansa didn’t show my coworker her resume before sending it to Jon. But it was so against the norms, and she has a spouse who should really know this stuff, so I’m finding it hard to believe that she’s never asked him for advice or had him look it over ever.

    1. Sadsack*

      Some people just do not accept advise regarding their resumes. Maybe she is one of those people. I’d let her decide if she wants feedback from her interviewer and then she can ask him. You and your husband don’t need to get involved. If your coworker asks about it, it was up to your husband’s coworker. Hopefully, the person who interviewed her will give her feedback about her resume.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Adding: Some people decide to ignore their spouse’s advice. Anyone else could say the same thing and that person would be deemed as Einstein.

    2. Natalie*

      Oof, awkward.

      If you say something to her, obviously don’t say “this is absolutely terrible garbage”. I’d soften it a bit and also just lean into the awkwardness: “This is really awkward. I see a lot of resumes at work and people are generally doing A/B/C [the most important things you think she should change]. I think your resume could really benefit from an overhaul. You might check out [website] and [website].”

      But if you don’t think she will react well, don’t worry about it.

    3. Amy*

      It sounds like you and your husband don’t actually know Sansa personally. Given that, I wouldn’t reach out to give feedback. If Sansa or your coworker ask for feedback, you could certainly say something, but I’d wait for the request.

      1. Thlayli*

        Not only do you not know her personally, Jon shouldn’t have shown you her resume in the first place. That’s a violation of privacy and depending on where you are if may actually be illegal. So I really wouldn’t say anything.

        And you never know, maybe she will do a great interview.

  19. Discordia Angel Jones*

    Open thread readers!

    I have a story for you.

    I had an interview yesterday, and as I got off the train and into a taxi, my skirt ripped all the way up the front. Taxi driver was sympathetic and stopped at a chemist so I could pick up some safety pins, so I repaired my skirt in the toilets of a nearby store.

    I decided I needed to apologise for the safety pins which were visible because it’s impossible to repair something flawlessly with them, so it was one of the first things I said. The interviewer laughed and said the interview was off to a great start.

    I got a second interview! I think I was so worried about my skirt I forgot to be nervous!

          2. Thlayli*

            In almost every English-speaking part of the former British empire. I think it’s just North America that says pharmacy.

    8. nonegiven*

      Nancy Reagan told a story where she met with someone over lunch as part of being first lady. She always wore whatever the staff put her in and she stood up to shake the woman’s hand goodbye at the end and her skirt fell off.

  20. ann perkins*

    Have been patiently waiting for this open thread. So I have a job offer sitting in my email inbox. Since this is a company where I know people from industry events, the entire process from “hey I might be interested” to “here is your offer letter” took about eight business days. That being said, I am hesitating on pulling the trigger. Not because I don’t think I will like the job as it is very similar to what I do now. Here is the long story of the issue:

    Almost two years ago, I applied for an internal promotion to a Senior Manager of Teapot Designs. Really thought I had a great shot because I’d been given glowing performance reviews and was everyone’s go-to person on that team. Well, they ended up giving it to someone who doesn’t even know Photoshop. (this is not actually a design job but what I do is highly specific so I’m using it as an example and not sure if designers still use PS or not so my apologies if that is inaccurate). What was even worse was I had to train him and hold his hand. Almost two years later, nothing has changed. I pulled the Sr Mgr job description and realized I’m doing almost everything on it. I have since been promoted and continue to get glowing reviews and blah blah. However, I really want to move up and I feel I’ve hit a wall here. The job offer I have is for a Manager role (w/o the comma, so the title but not the people) and there is room for growth but it will take some time and I’m impatient. But it’s also a LOT more than I’m making now. While I have some normal new job reservations, and I am quite sure current job would try to keep me, I think I’m ultimately too bitter to stay here. But on the other hand, re-establishing yourself as a rock star is hard . So I don’t know what to do.

    1. Teapot Queen*

      Sounds tempting to me! Lots more money and the chance to move up? I’d go for it.

    2. Variations on a theme*

      Moving on is sometimes the only way to move up. Presuming you’ve put in your time at current job (which, since you mention spending 2 years helping the person who got promoted over you, it seems like you have), it’s plenty reasonable to look for new ways to grow and new places to do that at.

      You’re not going to be a rock star if you keep holding on to the bitterness that comes from the very reasonable resentment that you’re feeling where you are. So go on! Find a new pond and be the biggest fish!

      1. ann perkins*

        yes, I have been here for over three and a half years, almost two of which has been dealing w/this BS. thank you!!

      2. Is it Friday Yet?*

        Yep. In my industry, moving on is the best way to move up and make more money.

      1. Inspector Spacetime*

        Seconded! If you do great work at this job, you’ll do great work there too. Have faith in yourself and enjoy the higher salary. :)

    4. Jane Gloriana Villanueva*

      To steal a line from your BFF Leslie Knope, “Ann, you beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk ox!”

      Despite the current glowing reviews of your work, you sound frustrated and unchallenged. Enough so that you went for a new opportunity and rocked the whole process in two weeks. Don’t sabotage your current great performance with an increasingly bitter outlook.

      Go for it and take the new job! Change is hard anyways, and while you’re waiting to move up, you’ll learn a lot about the new place. Good luck!

    5. Muriel Heslop*

      Rock stars make lots of money – take the new job! Congratulations!

      Seriously, if nothing has changed at your current job, it’s time to move on.

    6. BBBizAnalyst*

      Take the new job. Your current company is never going to promote you.

      Sometimes employers don’t get it right and it sounds like the new opportunity will provide the growth you’re desiring.

      Take the job. Take the money and go prosper.

    7. LKW*

      Take the job. If you’re a rock star at work, responsible for the guitar solos and are thrilling the audience, then you should get the gold and glory that go with it.

    8. Anxa*

      If you expect that your current job would try to keep you, can you practice a few scripts for moving on if you want to take the new job.

      I can soooo see myself as being reluctant to move on. In fact, I think I’ve been in your shoes (just at a lower scale). If it helps, remember that your job had 2+ years to keep you and didn’t make an effort.

    9. CatCat*

      Employers that don’t treat their rock stars well in terms of pay and opportunity lose those rock stars. The new job sounds like it recognizes your abilities and is able to provide the pay an opportunities your current job lacks. Current job has had plenty of time to try to keep you, but has made you bitter and frustrated. If it were me, no last ditch effort to try to keep me after I gave notice would work (and it’s happened to me, but it was such a relief to mentally move on, it was basically “Thanks, but no thanks” on my part.) I’d make the leap and wouldn’t look back :-)

    10. JennyFair*

      If you’re a rock star, that’s about you, not about the job you’re currently doing. You’ll be a rock star wherever you go. And it sounds like waiting will only delay the inevitable. Happy new jobbing :)

    12. INFJ*

      I get it. When I moved into my current position, I was nervous about starting over. I was at my last job for 8 years and was knocking it out of the ballpark. But I needed to move on. And now I’m knocking it out of the park here, too.

      Go for it, you deserve to move on and up!

    13. Not So NewReader*

      Re-establishing yourself is going to be hard no matter where you go.
      If you wish to avoid re-establishing yourself then you must stay in this job for the rest of your days. (I think the answer here is a huge NO.)

      This means do you want the pain of re-establishing now or later? The meat and potatoes of things: Is this particular job worth all that effort to re-establish yourself? It could be that you want to move but there is not enough at this new place to motivate you to move. Take a closer look at the offer, go over it line by line, could you do better some place else?

  21. DevAssist*

    My work has free, extra access to Rosetta Stone for employees! (completely voluntary) Woohoo! I can’t wait to learn another language this summer.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      AWWGGG YOU LUCKY DUCK

      What language are you gonna do?? I would love to be able to afford that or classes–I’d probably learn Spanish and German.

      1. DevAssist*

        We had a ton of options, but I opted for (Latin America- specific) Spanish, since it would be the most helpful for my job!

      2. Drew*

        I am being very, very lazy about Duolingo and other programs. I want to learn Spanish (for geographic reasons), Portuguese and Italian (because they’re beautiful), Welsh (because I have Welsh friends and it would blow their freaking minds), and Russian (because it may come in handy if things continue to get worse). That’s probably too many languages all at once, though, so I’m trying to prioritize. And if I don’t quit being lazy, I won’t pick up any of them.

        1. Jadelyn*

          I snorted at the Russian bit, but I’m also trying to convince myself to get off my lazy butt and work on learning Spanish. My org works a TON with Latino communities and probably upwards of 2/3 of our employees speak Spanish, including two members of my immediate team who I know would be happy to help me practice. But I’ve just been…well…lazy about it, I guess, and shy. I don’t want to try to speak it and sound stupid, you know?

          Tell you what. I’ll get Duolingo reinstalled on my phone and let’s check back next open thread to see how many lessons we can each get through in the week? ;)

        2. H.C.*

          I got overly ambitious with Duolingo too and was doing Spanish, Italian and French concurrently, except now I’m constantly using the wrong words when practicing outside of the app – given that they are all Romantic languages with masculine/feminine nouns. Ha and UGH.

        3. Poisson's Revenge*

          I went through the full DuoLingo Spanish module. It was fun and helpful, but I didn’t retain I very well without speaking practice. I had also been using workbooks to supplement the study, and had a friend helping.
          My bf tried DuoLingo for Russian, and I was really surprised that they make you try to learn to read and write it at the same time. I tried to help as a native speaker, but he stopped it after a few weeks. The alphabet was too much.

      3. La Revancha del Tango*

        I love Italki. I take spanish lessons with a professional teacher and have conversational chats. it’s way cheaper than an in person tutor!

      4. Apollo Warbucks*

        I’ve been using a pod cast called coffee break Spanish to learn with and it’s really good. They have coffee break German too.

        There a nice format and easy to listen to.

    5. Emi.*

      Awesome! I will warn you that the speaking practice for tonal languages is RUBBISH, though.

  22. Ama*

    I asked this a couple weeks ago but I think I was too late because I only got a couple responses, so I’m trying again:
    I think I want to switch careers to management consulting. I know that my best bet is to get an MBA and go through on-campus recruiting. But I’ve also heard that it’s a very high burnout career. I’m concerned about dropping 100k on a degree +2 years of lost wages and leaving the job after just a couple years. Has anyone ever struggled with this? How do you decide if making a career switch is worth the risk?

    1. Tableau Wizard*

      I thought about going into management consulting, and every time I decide it’s not for me.

      Some of the factors that help me make that decision are:
      – I want to work no more than 45 hours in an average week (spending time at home with my family is a priority for me)
      – I don’t want to spend time traveling (see family time above)
      – I like to have more ownership over my work and be able to see the impacts of the improvements that I make – so working directly for a company in a similar capacity is a better fit
      – I don’t want to get an MBA and I hate the idea that I need it to check a box.
      – I don’t want to live a lifestyle where I make more money but don’t have the time to enjoy it.

      The other thing to consider would be which management consulting firms you’re looking at. There is wide variety in the industry and some have worse burnout than others.

      YMMV with ALL of the above.

    2. LCL*

      No canned sig. Most of my email contacts are internal, so I tailor it to the situation. People that I know very well and talk to all the time get my first name only, used to be lowercase but autocorrect changes it. People that I don’t normally work with get first and last and both phone numbers. External customers get first and last, phone numbers, title, and somewhere in the email an explanation of what I do. I may have the longest title in the company because of reclassifications, merely stating the title won’t give the reader any useful information.

    3. LKW*

      I work in mgt consulting. No MBA. Many of my colleagues have, more of them don’t. So do that only if you’re interested in very specific elements of management consulting, in particular projects focused on business strategy. Otherwise, your business skills may translate to a consulting opportunity. You may have to start at lower entry point, but if you do well, you’ll be on a faster promotion track.

      Burnout is possible. But I’ve been doing this almost 20 years and haven’t burned out yet. I travel 80% of the year and typically work 10 -12 hour days. In my company, I’m one of the lazier folks. I find my work is interesting and I get enough change that it keeps me engaged and if I don’t like the work or the client – I know that it’s got an end date.

    4. Lily in NYC*

      I work with a bunch of management consultants who burned out and now work for the government for less than half of what they used to make. But they get to work on interesting projects, there’s very little travel and they usually get to leave by 6:30. Here’s the thing – it’s very difficult to get hired at the big firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) unless you have a degree from a top school. You don’t necessarily need to have a grad degree if you are willing to start at the bottom. Lots of people work two years and then go get their grad degree. And urban planning or public policy degrees are also helpful – it doesn’t always have to be an MBA.
      Cons: Long, long hours, lots of travel (usually), difficult personality types – if you don’t enjoy working with dominant type-A competitive people, then you will not be happy in management consulting.
      Pros: decent money
      Caveat: I only know people from the big name firms – I can see it being different in niche consulting.

    5. MissGirl*

      There’s plenty of good MBA programs that don’t ask for $100000 but still get you kick-a jobs. Some consulting companies are getting better about work life balance. My colleagues are home but Thursday night and work from home Friday. Still a lot of traveling.

  23. Christy*

    What do y’all have as your email signatures? My office recently got a new sub-office (to justify having a front-line manager in addition to our director) so we have to change ours. My old signature was in italics (except the |) and in my standard font:

    First M. Last | Job Title | ABC Big Office – Office | 123-456-7890

    And because I’ve had to add the new sub office (boo!) I’ve changed it to a blurb with my name in a slightly larger font size and everything else the same as my email:

    First M. Last
    Job Title
    ABC Sub Office | Office | Big Office
    123-456-7890

    (The ABC is my organizational acronym, which happens to be the first part of the sub-office’s name. I wanted to include it but didn’t want it twice.)

    What do y’all have?

    1. Brogrammer*

      Firstname Lastname
      Title
      (little graphic of company logo) (little graphic of an award the company won)
      Company address
      Direct phone line | Company website

    2. Christy*

      Oh, and I’ll clarify that I always sign my emails with Christy–my nickname, but my email is first.m.last at abc.gov

    3. Jan Levinson*

      First Last
      Job Title
      Company Name
      Office | Office Phone #
      Email Address
      Company Website

    4. Zoe Karvounopsina*

      [First Name Last Name]
      [Job Title]
      [Company]
      [Larger organisation with address]
      [Phone Number]
      [Email Address] [website] [twitter]
      [details we have to include as a charity]

      [Quotes about whatever we’re trying to push)

    5. Bad Candidate*

      Ours are standardized. My name and title are bolded and the slogan is bolded and in one of the company’s colors.

      First Last
      Title, Team
      Department
      Company
      Street Address
      City, State ZIP
      Direct Line
      Fax Number
      Email address

      Company Slogan

      Insurance jargon no one ever reads

    6. Joie de Vivre*

      First Last
      Title, Department (in French)
      Title, Department (in English)

      Company Name
      Address
      Phone #
      Fax # (seriously?! who ever faxes anymore)
      Link to website

      Legal disclaimer and link to email policy (French)
      Legal disclaimer and link to email policy (English)

    7. tiny temping teapot*

      Mandated:
      First Last
      Job Title
      Company + name of department ( Super Pots Tea Pot Painting as an example)
      address line 1
      address line 2
      Direct line:
      Fax: (unlike many I don’t have my own fax so I use the office fax line)
      email address

    8. Arduino*

      First name last name in large blue text
      Title very small light grey text
      Return line
      Address phone # cell # on darker grey slightly bigger text with p and c do you know what it is.

      It’s standard and looks ok. I like | much better though but alas company policy.

    9. Drew*

      First Last
      Email
      Job Title
      Office Phone Number

      The phone number used to include my extension, but as I don’t have an extension (or an office, NOT THAT I AM BITTER), now people can just call the trunk line.

    10. Collie*

      For emails to folks external to the organization I have:

      Firstname Lastname
      Title
      ORGANIZATION
      Description of organization
      123 Street Avenue | City zipcode
      +1 555.555.5555 | flastname@organization | http://www.organization
      facebook.com/organization | twitter.com/organization

      For internal:

      Firstname Lastname
      Title
      Department (linked to internal webpage)
      (555) 555-5555
      ***
      (Paragraph about service or resource my department offers.)

    11. Ribbon*

      First Last (in larger size than the rest)
      Title
      Government Agency
      Direct: Direct phone number
      Main: Main office phone
      Agency Address
      Email

      Public records disclosure warning (in gray)

    12. Coalea*

      Name, Degree
      Title

      Company Name
      Company Address (even though I work remotely in a different state!)
      Phone (my direct line)
      Fax (located at the company HQ, I assume)
      Email
      Company website
      Company logo
      Blurb about privacy

      For some reason, our company has set up its email system so that messages show up in other people’s inboxes as being from “Last Name, First Name.” As a result, I often receive responses to my emails that begin “Dear Last Name.” I know it’s an honest mistake, but it drives me nuts.

    13. CatCat*

      Person’s name (in bold font), Title
      Office | Division
      Employer Name
      Physical address
      Phone | email address | employer web site

    14. Audiophile*

      This isn’t totally standardized:

      FirstName LastName
      Job Title, Department
      Org Name (this is optional, but I’ve added it)
      Pronouns
      Direct Line

    15. Pwyll*

      Copied from our e-mail policy:

      First M. Last[, designation from approved designation list(link to policy)]
      Vanity title, if any (e.g. Director of Marketing)
      Corporate title (e.g. Vice President), Functional team
      Division | Legal Entity | Office address
      Appropriate telephone numbers

      Information classification

      Disclaimer

    16. JulieBulie*

      I have my name, address, phone, email, title, three organizational levels, website, and a bunch of social media icons for the company

      And at the bottom, “Please consider the environment before printing this email.”

      It’s a large sig block and when there’s a long chain of emails in a thread, it takes forever to scroll through them all.

      One time, I really needed to print a conversation. It took up three sheets of paper. The first two sheets were printed on both sides. The fifth sheet had printing on one side only, and it was just the line, “Please consider the environment before printing this email.”

    17. Rachel in NYC*

      Ours are standardized more because everyone just sorta copied one person then any actual rule I believe (plus I admit to judging people who have crazy email signatures). Anyways:

      First Name Last Name
      Job Title
      Email
      Phone Number
      Fax Number
      Office Website
      Office Logo
      Hyperlink to subscribe to mailing list
      Links to office Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn pages

    18. KR*

      First Last | Position

      Office number
      Cell number
      Work email
      Office address | 2-word Company Slogan
      Small Company graphic

    20. Nallomy*

      Firstname Lastname
      Title
      Employer Name
      Employer Address
      Link to a relevant website (not my employer’s website though)

      We don’t have work phones, and I choose not to include my cell number. (Most of my coworkers do not include that.) Some people put their degrees after their name, but I don’t.

  24. Teapot Queen*

    After putting up with a sub-standard employee for the past several years, we are now in a position to replace this person. Yay! My boss asked me if I knew anyone who might be interested in the position. I do–Wakeen. Wakeen and his wife and I all worked at the same place about 17 years ago. He works in a public library; we are an academic library. I have already mentioned the job opening to Wakeen and he is very interested in the job. It’s got good benefits and a lot of other stuff going for it.
    However, my boss is a narcissist who spends literally hours monopolizing other people’s time. His particular victims are those he supervises, so we can’t use the “hey, this is great, but I have work to do” excuse. He goes on and on about his own interests, his political opinions, his opinions of TV programs–you name it. You literally cannot get away.
    He is also very lazy, and dumps just about everything on us to do, while he sits and does nothing on his computer all day long.
    Also, he’s been known to be capricious and back-biting.
    So….as a friend, do I tell Wakeen ANY of this? I want him to get the job, and I want him to WANT the job. But I’m wondering, how far do I go, if at all? I think I would have liked to have known some of this stuff before I started the job. Especially the talking thing. If I had known about the talking thing, I never would have let him start on personal subjects when I started working here. I’d have kept it strictly professional.
    What do you think?

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I would give Wakeen the heads up. If I were him and you told me all about the job and encouraged me to apply but didn’t warn me about the pitfalls, I would be so mad. Give him all the information and let him decide what to do with it.

    3. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      I think it’s important to share both good and bad if you have a personal connection with someone. At my last job, I had a temporary employee who I became really good friends and when I left, I asked her if she wanted me to suggest they reach out to her about the job. With this, I told her all of the things I liked and the challenges of the job as I didn’t want to her to get into it and be upset with me about some of the issues. The interesting thing is that we are very different personalities so some of the things that drove me nuts, don’t bother her at all and when she has a complaint about something I did well, I can provide some helpful feedback.

      1. Tuckerman*

        Good insight. Also, if you haven’t worked with Wakeen in 17 years, you might not know what management style he prefers now. What bothered him 17 years ago might not bother him now.

    4. BigSigh*

      Think of it this way. If you don’t tell him and he quits because he can’t stand it, you’re worse off than if he just hadn’t taken the job.

      Emphasize the good AND the bad. If you overshare the bad, you risk driving him away.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I agree, and you might share how you deal with it so he knows it’s possible to do so. Like, “Ray tends toward X behavior and it might be off-putting to some; we handle it by doing Y.”

      2. Teapot Queen*

        Thanks, everyone, for your help! I was a little afraid I was being non-professional by warning him, but you’re right–I’d want to know about the good and the bad.

    5. Parenthetically*

      Please tell Wakeen. My first nanny job was referred to me by the previous nanny. She did NOT tell me that the woman I’d be working for was arrogant and demanding, that she and her husband would be out of the house from 7am to 6pm every day, leaving behind kids who were thus desperate for attention and acting out all the time.

      I ended up being very frustrated and disillusioned with my friend for not telling me the situation. I might still have taken the job, but I would have gone into it with a different attitude!

  25. Junior Dev*

    Is there a specific accommodation you want? If not, I’m not sure that pre-emptively going to HR makes sense.

    For what it’s worth your old co-workers sound really rude. Correcting other people’s behavior is itself rude unless it’s really necessary to do so. Your co-workers aren’t your therapist or social coach and it’s not ok for them to presume they have that role.

  26. Tris Prior*

    Someone smeared poo on the stall wall in the ladies’ room this week. Whyyyyyyyyyy??

    I know from reading this site that this can be A Thing That Happens in offices, but it’s the first time I’ve encountered it personally (and I’ve had some AWFUL jobs with AWFUL people in my career.)

    1. Teapot Queen*

      So sorry you had to see that! If it makes you feel any better, during my first six weeks at my current job, I saw a turd on the floor in the ladies’ room.

    2. Shadow*

      People do this out of spite because they feel they e been wronged.

      I’ve seen people clog the toilets, drop loads on the floor of the exec bathroom, and smear poo. It always happens when somebody feels they’re not being listened to or that they’ve been treated unfairly.

      1. Tris Prior*

        Yeah, there is some sh!t going down (no pun intended) at my company right now. But, well, that’s been the case everywhere I’ve worked. I guess I should be surprised it’s taken me this long to encounter it. (We apparently had a booger-smearer in the men’s room a few jobs ago, but never poo.)

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I don’t understand this behavior. I get snippy when I feel I’m not being listened to, but I can’t even imagine smearing my poo on anything other than the toilet roll.

          1. Marvel*

            Full disclosure: I’ve keyed a car. (I was in college and the commuter parking lot was a warzone.) I still can’t image smearing feces on anything.

            1. Elizabeth West*

              Well I once dumped a big double handful of leaves into the open window of a car that belonged to a guy who pissed me off, but they were dry leaves. But poo! No!

      3. Natalie*

        When I was in commercial property management we could predict when a tenant was going out of business catastrophically because the bathrooms on their floor would start getting effed up. Within a month or two, they would have moved out in the middle of the night with no forwarding address.

        1. Queen of the File*

          From now on I’m going to make a point of checking out the washrooms every time I get a job interview!

      4. Tuckerman*

        And the person affected by the behavior isn’t the target. The custodial staff, not the boss, cleans it up.

        1. Tris Prior*

          Right?? I felt SO bad for the cleaning staff that day. And glad that it didn’t happen at my last job, where we had no cleaning staff and took turns scrubbing the toilets.

    3. Anon today...and tomorrow*

      There’s someone in my really small branch that never flushes the toilet. Never. It’s so nasty that I end up trying not to use the restroom at all if I can help it.

    4. Lily in NYC*

      I almost lost my mind when we had what we called “The Mad Pooper” at work. She would crap on the floor and then walk in it and leave a trail. One time I didn’t notice she smeared it near the bottom of the outside of the toilet bowl and it got on the calf of my pants. I was so angry that I had fantasies of making everyone give me a DNA sample so I could play detective. And the worst part is that I ran outside to buy new pants and my boss misunderstood what happened and thought I soiled myself.

      1. Tris Prior*

        Oh my god, I am so sorry. That is so much worse than seeing poo on the stall wall!

      2. OhBehave*

        What the *&^%? Did you know who this person was? Did anyone speak to her? YUCK!
        No Mr. Boss, TMP smeared it all over the toilet!

        1. Lily in NYC*

          No! This was about 6 years ago and I never found out who it was. She must have resigned because the incidents stopped relatively quickly.

    5. Say what, now?*

      When I worked as a Barista there was a “mad pooper” who would come in and take a poop in the corner across from the toilet in the men’s toilet probably once a week for several months. I kinda just figured it was a phobia situation where they were worried about the germ on the toilet seat? That kept me from screaming. It did not stop my male coworker from watching people going in and out of the toilet whenever we had downtime, but to be fair he was the one cleaning it up.

    6. Thlayli*

      Some days I feel like I just don’t understand how to navigate society and be a normal person. And then I read about people like this and I think “hey, I’m doing pretty well”

      So thanks for that!

      1. Say what, now?*

        Just don’t poop where you shouldn’t and you’ll be held in high esteem.

  27. catering anon*

    I had a goof-up at work this week. I was responsible for ordering catering for a half-day workshop. I spoke to my manager beforehand to clarify what she wanted; she said not to order lunch, but that we would pay for a coffee break. I clarified (does that mean just coffee or food?) and then went on my happy way to do the order for 10:30am.

    And then the day before the workshop… she asked me if I had ordered coffee for the morning. Uh. No? I said, “When we talked, you said just one coffee break so that’s all I ordered…” and she said “Did I really? Just one coffee break? Hmm. Mental note to you for the future…” and that’s all that was said, but now I feel silly for not having thought to ask if that was something she wanted. I don’t drink coffee or tea, so I don’t automatically think of that stuff first thing (even though this isn’t the first time I’ve done catering for a workshop, so I should’ve thought to ask).

    Just… ugh.

    1. Variations on a theme*

      Relatively minor mistake, and your manager seems like a good egg for positively identifying that she was also a source of the confusion, so, definitely handled well!

      Mistakes are how we grow. :)

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      Weird that she said “Mental note to YOU for the future”–I mean, if you went to her to clarify what she wanted, it’s up to her to be explicit. (Of course I also come at this from a non morning-hot-beverage standpoint, but really.)

    3. Squeeble*

      I know how you feel. This sounds relatively minor, but it’s so annoying when you follow directions and then they realize that’s not what they wanted after all.

  28. Delyssia*

    I’ve recently come to the realization that there are two types of people who do well in my role: people who bring order to chaos and people who thrive on chaos. I thrive on chaos. (Don’t get me wrong, there comes a point where it can be too much, but in general, I’m in my element when I’m juggling several things at once and things are a little hectic.) But I feel like most jobs are looking for the people who bring order to chaos. Are there other jobs out there where thriving on chaos is a good thing?

    1. Mazzy*

      Yes I manage analysts and I always need one or two who are legitimately frazzled because they’re finding a bunch of stuff that is going wrong. It does NOT put m mind to ease when someone has an “everything is fine” attitude

    2. Andraste*

      You might enjoy the chaos, but man the chaos can be rough on everyone else who works around you, ESPECIALLY people you might supervise. I used to work for a local affiliate of a women’s health nonprofit that was CONSTANT chaos. I could tell my managers liked it–I could tell they felt powerful and important when they were the ones putting out fires. But for me, it was awful. Couldn’t ever get any long term projects done because there was some new disaster. Couldn’t get direction on what our day to day was supposed to look like because “things are changing every day!” Because disaster could strike at any moment, we were micromanaged to hell and back, so things would get stalled waiting for approval but we’d get yelled at during our weekly check-ins for not accomplishing enough. Of the six people who started with me, only 3 lasted a whole year. That job was terrible. I know the chaos can seem fun, but I think it’s really bad and unsustainable in the long run, and prevents your business/organization from really thriving. My recommendation (and again, this is just me), would be to get that chaos under control.

    3. Jules the First*

      Oh yes…I’m definitely a ‘thrive on chaos’ sort.

      My last serious job claimed to be an ‘order out of chaos’ job, but the reality was that it was a three-person workload done by just one person, meaning there’s so much chaos that your options are to work a 100-hour week (and bring sort-of order to the chaos) or work a normal week by knowing the chaos inside out, upside down and backwards so that you can reach into it at any point and come up with the bit that is required Right Now….

    4. HR Pro*

      I find that journalism/news is a field where it can feel like chaos because you often have to turn on a dime when some unexpected news comes up. I think people in those fields like the adrenaline rush that comes from the “chaos.” And the nice thing is that it’s inherent in the job – it’s not just because there’s some terrible boss who doesn’t know how to plan. So you might look into journalism/news (even if you’re not a writer, there are other related jobs that publishing/news broadcasting places need to have filled).

      On the other hand, I worked in a place that was terrible at planning and so everyone was putting out fires all the time. Yes, it made people feel needed and important – it is a good feeling (for many people) to “save the day.” But eventually the CEO realized that long-term, strategic planning was really the best way to produce the best product and give the best service over the long haul. And even the employees who liked to save the day would realize that there really were good reasons to at least do SOME planning.

    6. all good*

      Have you ever done advance work for a political campaign? That’s basically the wildest, most chaotic thing a person can do while wearing a suit. And you have to keep your head about you at all costs.

    7. Incognito*

      Mine? I’ve been desparately trying to bring order to the chaos, but my boss just keeps it churning or manufacturing more of it. I’m actively looking, so a position should open up soon. ;)

      1. Workaholic*

        I complain about chaos, but work best with many things going at once. I also had a boss tell me once after a particularly crazy day that he could never tell if i was as calm and collected as i seemed, or if i was as stress as everyone else but able to hide it. Totally stressed internally.

        1. Incognito*

          I work best with a lot of things going on at once, and can even get excited about the occasional urgency. It gets the blood pumping. It’s the chronic needless chaos that is pushing me out the door, people sitting on things for months, even years until they become blazing dumpster fires. They do it even when you spoon feed them solutions and repeatedly remind them of the timelines. Then there’s my favorite, we make a decision about something critical; it’s forgotten, and it becomes a crisis all over again.

          When you’re working on a long term projects (spanning decades!), the basic day-today stuff should really stop being chaotic at some point. How many times do we have to go through regular annual reporting cycles before someone figures out they happen every year at the same time like clockwork? Why do people panic over things where decisions we made and tasks have been completed as if they were brought up before. Why do we keep reinventing the wheel? Why don’t we even have a simple standard electronic filing system so people can find things easily and file them easily? Why is filing a even crisis?! This should not be a thing!

    8. Nonz*

      Public safety dispatching. High-demand, very good pay and benefits depending on where you’re located geographically. High burnout & turnover also, though, and 24/7/365 shift work. If you’re in Colorado, we’re definitely hiring!

    9. GirlwithaPearl*

      Politics and advocacy, crisis communications, maybe some government agencies (ie a press secretary at the public health commission during an outbreak).

      I usually thrive on chaos and do indeed work in one of these listed fields ;)

  29. Audiophile*

    Happy Friday!

    I think my project is officially dead. Mid-week my co-workers suggested changing course, I don’t want to appear inflexible so I’m trying to remain relatively open-minded. This new idea though, I’m pretty sure, won’t work. Basically, rather than appropriately treat lapsed donors under a new GL, they suggested just added something to their bios. This won’t solve the original issue and the likelihood is high that no one will remember to add the lapsed descriptor to their bios.

    I was originally really excited to be trusted with a project and have something “large scale” to add to my resume. Once things got underway, it was a lot less exciting.

    I’m interested in handling projects in the future, I’m sure it will come up again. There’s definitely room for improvement in this department and I’d like to help.

    1. Drew*

      I had a major project killed over the Christmas break – and since I’d planned to spend the first half of this year on that project almost exclusively, this was a real kick in the goolies. I decided to be a good soldier about it and move on finding other work, and I think I’ve been exemplary about it, even telling other people who also thought it was stupid to cancel my project that it’s a done deal and I’m not dwelling on it.

      My boss is now pushing our owner to reconsider the decision and let me start the project after all. When he told me that, I told HIM not to tell me anything else about it unless he got a firm “Yes, this can happen” and had a start date for me. I can be a good soldier once, but twice will be pushing it.

      1. Audiophile*

        Yeah I don’t think I could do with it being killed twice. I’m alright with it being killed this time, since it largely depended on Finance and they weren’t moving along at a reasonable pace.

        I definitely don’t want to go through this again. There is a slight chance that it could turn around in the next week or so, for a roll out in June. I’m not very hopeful.

  30. Giles*

    Remember the post earlier this week about how marketing was resisting changing a person’s headshot? That very same day I got an email from a partner here who had just gotten a new, professional photo from us – it said: “I was hoping he could photoshop out some of my wrinkles. Don’t they normally do that ;)!” I told them that the photographer does some retouching, but I didn’t direct them as to what needed retouching where. Their reply: “Can you?? I am sensitive about my aging!” …. Moments later I got a phone call saying “I’m actually really serious about this; I’m very insecure about my aging and would like you to soften the wrinkles in my photo, if you can.” I had to spend almost an hour getting their photo reprocessed and re-touched up. Ugh. The timing made me laugh, though.

    1. YarnOwl*

      I work in a marketing department and we’re responsible for coordinating everyone’s headshots with the photographer we use, and it’s so funny to me to see what people are self conscious about! Not like I’m making fun of self conscious people (because heaven knows I am one), but just interesting to see that something you don’t even notice stands out to that person.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      When I had to get a headshot done for work, I made the photographer help me pick the photo (we had to sign off on which was used, which is smart imo). I literally hated all of them. I’d say I can’t wait to get it redone, but I can. Really.

    3. Chaordic One*

      At my former workplace we had a woman in a very public position who had to often deal with the media for our company. It was decided that she was one of the comparatively few people who would have her photo on the company website. Strangely enough, she insisted that on the company website we use 15-year-old photographs of her. I thought she was an attractive person in her early 50s. Her hair was identical to the 15-year-old photos, but she is obviously older and a bit heavier (not much) now and her insistence on using old photos seems odd to me.

  31. Gaia*

    I do not have advice but I want to give you some assurance: someone not liking your jokes does not mean they do not like *you.* For instance, I am really particular about humor and some types of jokes will irritate me but I still like the person, I just don’t share their humor.

    1. Sugar of lead*

      I know what you mean. My dad is a wonderful human being, but he is unilaterally banned from using “humor,” because he’s very dry and I can’t tell that he’s kidding and it’s very alarming to me.

  32. Anxa*

    This is long. This week has been a job-search roller coaster:

    So last week I had mentioned qualms about an interview. I had applied for a part-time job that could have been a really great summer job opportunity, but I really didn’t know what kind of schedule they were looking for (and I had let my bosses know that I was planning to stick around this semester). I had gotten an email that my application had been reviewed the morning after submission (a Friday), which I took to be a really good sign they were interested because state jobs rarely move that fast.

    The next week they called, but I couldn’t fully make out the details of the voicemail, which I thought I mentioned when I called them back, also leaving a VM. The next day we set up an interview.

    And then I realized I didn’t get any details about the interview, just a date and time. I’m really prone to second guessing myself and I was telling myself it was stress brain making me nervous, but I called to confirm the location and either I literally wasn’t listening well enough due to nerves or HR literally told me I had the right impression when I didn’t (I thought the interview would be at the department HQ listed in the job ad). Key point here: I was talking to HR, not the hiring person (this will be relevant later).

    My BF set up an urgent vet appointment for the same afternoon as my interview. Miraculously, we got my cat into his carrier at the absolute last minute and I ended up getting to the the building at the exact time of my appointment, only it didn’t really matter that I wasn’t responsibly early because I was in the wrong county! Yea, so HR and the satellite office were either not speaking the same language or I was a total space ball. Still, they told me to try to reschedule. At this point I was so embarrassed I wanted to just run away and never talk to them again and I felt like all my fears about how I’m too disorganized and unreliable to ever be a serious employee were founded.

    The next morning I call and make a same day appointment. I go to email my current boss to let them know I had pushed back my interview, and that I may have more info about my schedule later that afternoon. I was encouraged to get back to them at a time that was 1 hour after my interview started.

    The interview itself is fine, until I find out it’s a full-time job, not part-time. Which is the ultimate goal, but would mean leaving my current job after telling them I’d be there. The commute was reasonable but much worse than my current job and its tentative schedule. I can walk/take the bus to and from work <1 hr each way, and it's <20 mins by car. This New Job was in a city with bad traffic but nowhere near a bus stop. It started early enough that my BF would have to start work way earlier than usual if we car pooled, plus it would be hard to get to if he needed the car at odd times (he does field work in the summer), and meant dealing with Beltway traffic. It was further than expected based on the ad. I let them know that I had been under the impression it was a part-time job and that I had JUST told my job I would be there that summer.

    So, after the interview, I called my BF (no answer). I was kind of lost (I hadn't had time to write down reverse directions) and hot and cranky and pulled into a random development and called my boss right before my 'deadline' to tell them I won't be taking the New Job so my tentative hours are great. The new job literally calls during that call, which was awkward, but I took the call. The job offer was for only .15 cents an hour higher than the minimum (I have no direct experience, but a lot of relevant skills, education, and experience) and while I'm sure it was negotiable, I literally didn't have the time to. It was a 25% hourly pay cut. I declined the offer. It could have been a great segue into working for the state, but I had already given my boss the impression I'd be staying on for the summer. I had to choose between a full-time summer job or a part-time year round (but technically temp) job. I would make 80 a week more, but the commute would have been hellish (not the drive itself, but the car sharing: partner does field work and travels in the summer). Also, it's physically not a comfortable job, which I didn't mind, but did make my current job more attractive. Also, my gut said no.

    Everything was so drawn out, and then had to happen so fast.

    So the past few days I've been trying to accept my situation and look at the positives of staying in my current job. I'd get a set schedule (an upgrade!), can get there by public transit and there's showers on site (nice in the summer!), I'd have more time to focus on finding a new long-term job instead of adjusting to a new one while job searching, and I'd have a day off to pursue volunteering. Also, 3 day weekends so I could more easily visit family over the summer. I wouldn't need a car loan and I'd still get more hours than I have now. And I wouldn't have to fight my sleep tendencies.

    But I think I oversold my current job to myself, because yesterday another job from the state (same county, slightly closer, different department) calls me about another job. And like a fool, I tell them I am flattered but I had just confirmed my hours this week at current job and I felt with the semester starting on Monday, it wasn't a good time to leave. Before I could ask more about their interview schedule, the conversation ended. I hope they don't wonder why I bothered to apply, but had they contacted me last week I would have been much more interested in leaving my job for it. It was a similar situation to the other state job.

    AND soon after letting them know I had committed to a job for the summer, I look and see our hours are only good through the end of the fiscal year. I cannot seem to juggle this right at all. So I might have turned down a full-time job that could have been a step toward a permanent one for the sake of five weeks.

    So here comes the actionable part:

    How weird would it be to call New Job #2 back and ask them what the hours would be like, in case it's possible for me to go to ~.25 FTE at my current job, since that's what I might be at if our budget is cut, if they have weekdays off. Or to let them know that I'm still reluctant to leave my current job after having JUST affirmed my summer hours with the semester starting, but that if they are still interested in interviewing me I would still be considering it, depending on their timeline. Or asking if it would be appropriate for me to reach out to them next spring to ask how their hiring cycle is timed so we don't just miss each other by a matter of days again. That seems kind of brazen.

    Depending on where in the pay scale I would fall and how many hours I would work, I could make between $50 and $180 more per week at the summer job. It could be more if my hours are cut at the end of the fiscal year or if I'm forced into a vacation since I'm a temp employee technically. But, if that summer job precludes me from working in the fall, I could miss out on a job all fall long. And I'm very interested in, now having a semester under my belt, trying to focus on accomplishments to try to boost my resume. But I've been waiting for 7 years for an opportunity to break into this field, and I feel like an idiot for bumbling that phone call. And as wrong as it feels for me to burn a bridge or go back on my word, what will it matter? My current employer will never bump me up to a real job, and no other employer is going to be impressed by the fact that I put my team first.

    1. Anxa*

      Holy crap I didn’t realize HOW long that was:

      SHORTENED VERSION:

      I had very brief window at my current job where I could leave without causing a major disruption. Unfortunately, I hadn’t heard anything actionable from any jobs I had applied for before my summer schedule was “due.” The new semester starts on Monday.

      This past Monday I had an interview for a job that I hoped I could do alongside my current one, so I held my schedule for an extra day. Which became an extra two days as I had a scheduling fiasco and had to bump the interview a day back. Turns out, the job ad was all wrong and the job was full-time. I turned it out for logistics reasons, and also because I had already told my job I’d be there this summer. After that interview, I confirmed again that I would stay and my tentative schedule was cool.

      I then felt like such a fool and felt a sense of loss that I pumped up my actual current job for the rest of the week. Sold it myself so hard that I bumbled the chance to interview for ANOTHER full-time, summer only job, but one with a better schedule and commute.

      Now I’m wondering if it’s too late to call them back? If I should work two week and let them know I’ll be leaving, then hope I can get my job back next spring or fall (fall may not work since this summer job will likely go past the start of ‘fall’ semester). Contributing factor: the money gap may matter a lot more than I calculated, because come to find out our schedule is just for the fiscal year.

      What do I even say? Anyway I frame it to new job seems like I’m being really entitled or brazen. Would it be weird to ask for contact info so I can reach out to them next year? It’s a state job so that may not be allowed.

      1. over educated*

        This sounds so frustrating. I know money matters, but I think the only way you are going to move forward from your current job to something more stable and full time is by prioritizing your long-term goals rather than the immediate calculations of $50 per week or numbers of work weeks in the fall. I don’t know what the likelihood of the summer job with the state leading to something bigger is, but if you think it is a step toward a field you want to work in, you have nothing to lose from calling back. I wouldn’t ask a lot of clarifying schedule questions though, asking if they would still consider you for it is a big enough ask that you want to express your interest clearly if there is an option.

        Also, I wouldn’t worry too much about inconveniencing your current job. They know you’re part time and contingent, so if you say “hey I got a summer job with a lot of hours and have to reduce my hour commitment here, sorry that the timing didn’t come up last week, I would still like to work part time if possible and come back in the fall” they will probably understand and it is their job to deal with changing staff schedules.

        1. Anxa*

          You’re so right about long-term goals. I think the problem is, though, that every time I’ve buckled down, committed to something, and took the long-view it’s either blown up in my face or been a dead end. It feels like, even though SO is adamant that he doesn’t want me to feel pressured to bring more money in, I can’t subject us to more deprivation to support what may be a fantasy. It’s not just pessimism or a negative attitude talking there. There are literally thousands of people who spend their entire lives underemployed.

          Also confounding it is that $50 dollars a week is not worth disrupting our commute and changing course over, but $100 or $200 can make a huge difference. I could get my wisdom teeth out, replace my 9 year old computer, get a smartphone, glasses, a proper desk chair, or get a down payment for a car. Take licensing tests for potential fields. Things that may be just as important for my long-term job search.

          I can’t say I’m poor; I live too richly for that. But I’m only able to sustain such a pleasant lifestyle on my income because my SO subsidizes me. My actual income is under the FPL.

          You are right though that I need to come up with some scripts. The thing is, my supervisors know I’m looking and are supportive overall of us moving on and coming back if needed. I think you’ve helped me realize that that’s actually making me more reluctant to leave them in the lurch. I’m also in one of those jobs where not only are you expected to be fueled by selflessness and passion, but I personally feel a disproportionate amount of dedication to my clients (and even my employers, I could not get ANY job for years, despite having worked most of my adolescence without issue. i was in a really, really low place and have a misplaced sense of gratitude)

      2. Anxa*

        UPDATE:

        I called them back and asked about their timetable. Turns out they aren’t starting interviews for another two weeks. By that time I may have more info about the fiscal year situation at Current Job and have more time to think about it. I’ll also have time to prepare for the interview so I feel like I’m in a better position to negotiate a higher wage.

        On the downside, I can’t just put it behind me and move forward, but I don’t feel as crappy as I thought I would!

  33. the.kat*

    Office supplies! I know we’ve talked about pens before, but what preferences do you have with office supplies? What do you splurge on, what do you skimp on?

    I can’t stand metal paperclips that aren’t plastic/rubber coated. I don’t like cheap/give-away pens. If I’m writing and no one else will borrow my pen I’m going to reach for one of my Pilot Varsity pens and I have never found a highlighter I like enough to use.

    What about you all?

    1. NJ Anon*

      I work at a nonprofit. We don’t splurge on anything but I have to say post-it notes in all sizes and colors are my favorite office supply.

      1. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

        I once went to a meeting at a corporation and they had a whole room of really nice office supplies and I think my non-profit worker heart just broke as I was so jealous! My job will order nicer pens for me which is great but that’s about the extent of fancy office supples.

      2. k*

        Ditto to everything you just said. I love post-its so much.

        I also have a few, fun desk accessories. Their more fashion than function, but it makes my desk more pleasant to stare at all day.

        1. zora*

          Oh yeah, I found a really cute decorated ceramic desk set on Etsy, pencil cup and small tray, instead of the big black plastic monstrosity pen holders my company ordered. They make me so happy!

      3. Parenthetically*

        Also a post-it note addict here. I use them constantly and for so many things!

      4. HR Bee*

        I purchase the pretty colored, super-sticky dispenser Post-Its for myself because the company only buys the boring yellow ones that lose their stick after one re-position. It’s not that much, a package lasts a while, and they make me happy :)

    2. YarnOwl*

      I do a lot of copy editing and for some kinds of documents I print out hard copies and mark them up. I used to not really care what pens I used, but my office stocks these Paper Mate Flair felt tip pens and ever since I started using them I’m obsessed! I use one for my bullet journal and I use a red one for all of my copy editing and hate using anything different.

    3. Liz*

      I asked that when they order spiral-bound notebooks, they toss in a few graph paper ones for me to use. I’ve been using only graph paper for note-taking for like 15 years at this point, ever since high school! It’s a small office and pretty chill about those sorts of things, so luckily it was no problem to ask for that.

      1. DecorativeCacti*

        I love graph paper. I like tiny squares. Office Max used to have 10/1″. It’s just so easy to switch between writing and sketching if I need to. I am a quilter and a planner so all of my graph pads have various quilts and sketches of my house/yard/etc on them.

      3. CrazyEngineerGirl*

        I did the same thing at my job! I was just so used to graph paper I couldn’t stand using regular old lined notebooks. And then of course, other people started grabbing them from the supply room too (because graph paper is so awesome!)

    4. Jan Levinson*

      I don’t order the office supplies, but I so appreciate that my company purchases G2 pens. They’ve always been my favorite, the ink is just so nice!

      Whenever customers come in and need to sign something, I make sure to sit out a non-G2 pen, in fear that they’ll take it!

      2. Andraste*

        I have our office manager order me G2s special. I don’t use anything else, haha. It’s the one office supply I get snooty about.

    5. Lucky*

      I am in constant search for the perfect spiral notebook. Must be 9″x7″ or smaller, lined, and have a hard cover, preferably with no design and small or no branding. Apica Figurare, A5 in Orange is my jam, but very hard to find.

    6. Lily Rowan*

      I bring in my own notebooks so I can have just what I want, but otherwise I’m pretty open.

    7. Anonymosity*

      When I ordered supplies for a previous job, I got sick of yellow sticky notes so I would order myself a packet of colored ones, mostly blue and purple. They were the same price as the yellow if I got the generic ones. I rather spitefully packed them in my box of personal things when I got laid off; my supervisor didn’t notice. YES I TOOK THEM–FIGHT ME.

      I hate plastic-coated paper clips or the ones with texture on them. Smooth only, please. Also I really like stacked letter trays if I have a lot of paper to sort/deal with.

      1. DecorativeCacti*

        I had a manager who hated textured paperclips to the point that she told one of our employees to go around the entire building (two stories, at least five departments) and throw away all the textured ones. I’m pretty sure the employee just hid in the bathroom for an hour and said she did it.

    8. Undine*

      I care a lot about the paper in notebooks (texture, thickness, can you write on it with a non-ball-point and not have it bleed through).

      1. gwal*

        Yup! Love that the black-n-red notebooks have such good paper AND are often the default purchase in offices

    9. Parenthetically*

      I have very strong feelings about so many office supplies. Tiny binder clips > paper clips. Rich, dark-colored dry erase markers rather than black (but NOT BROWN). Spiral notebooks are swell, but only if they have sturdy, preferably plastic covers, and are college ruled or narrow ruled; wide ruled flimsy-covered notebooks are the handiwork of Satan. I also strongly prefer .7mm lead for mechanical pencils. And I like color-coded folders, and don’t understand the existence of file folders that are NOT hanging folders.

      I also need a range of pens in various colors (G2 preferred, never ever the cheap promo pens), a range of sizes and colors of post-its, and COLORED PENCILS for highlighting — you can also find “bible highlighters” from various online retailers that are about halfway between a good artist’s crayon and a colored pencil in texture, so they write VERY smoothly without any bleed-through, since they’re designed for super-thin paper.

      1. Natalie*

        Colored pencils for highlighting is such a good idea! I will have to try this.

        Binder clips 4EVA.

      2. Anxa*

        I’ve been a colored pencil highlighter, but it can be too time consuming. Looking into bible highlighters!

        I think for Christmas I want some of those pastel highlighters for my stocking. And all the fun colored dry erase markers.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          I have highlights shaped like cats and bears from Paperchase. Which is like the mothership.

    10. Susan*

      I actually like cheap pens, because I lose them/people steal them all the time. If I lose a pen, I don’t even bother looking for it; I just grab another one, because we have tons of them.

      I hate cheap staplers, though. I insist upon using a Swingline brand stapler. I also convinced our admin to get an electric stapler for the department, and I know that sounds lazy, but it is so nice when you’re stapling a bunch of things at once.

    11. krysb*

      I only use Bic Velocity 1.6 pens, and I supply them myself. Theft my pens is punishable by death.

    12. JAM*

      I have staplers I love and hate. My stapler used to get stolen all the time so I gave my crew the super awesome functional staplers, left an okay one in the workroom (and it never walks off now), and put my own Target gold swingline stapler at my desk. People love to use it when they grab things off the shared printer but they know it can never leave my desk.

      I also fell in love with the blue Pilot G2 05 pens. My company decided to downgrade blue pens the day after my satellite office got a 5 box order in. I now control the firm’s favorite pens and I have so much power with people. If I put it on a desk of someone office sharing, they get so excited. I should love the power and appreciation I get but I really just love the pens.

      1. Trix*

        I love the G2 05 pens! I don’t have nearly enough clout to request specific pens be ordered for my office, but we do get the 07s now and then, and while I do my best to not take boxes at a time, I make no promises.

        And I’m with you on the blue, the G2s are the only blue pens I like and I like them so much more than the black. They are for my own personal use, anyone else who needs a pen gets a standard Bic ballpoint or one of the many BRAND ones that a vendor used to give us in droves.

        1. Poisson's Revenge*

          So funny you mention this one, I never paid attention to pens until I picked one of these up.

    13. LKW*

      I buy these french notebooks (Clairefontaine) because the paper is wonderfully smooth. They’re a little pricey but so lovely in which to write my gibberish.

      1. Ktelzbeth*

        I was just trying to remember the brand name of those. Thank you! The paper is wonderful

    14. Natalie*

      I will cut someone for binder clips in all of the sizes, especially the really small ones. Paper clips suck; team binder clips forever.

      1. FinePrint*

        I’m with you: no paper clips! I get so many documents for BigBoss to sign; I take off the paper clips (yes, throw them away!), substitute a binder clip. You will thank me when I return your document perfectly contained.

    15. Shishimai*

      I have a whiteboard notebook, and it has changed my workflow. Instead of wading through pages of my notes to find the action item from a week ago, I can erase things as I work through them, which means my to-do list is always findable and I don’t have to transcribe it. I can doodle up a storm and easily remove it when I need to take notes in that space, and it has page protectors so that if I need to keep multiple diagrams separate, it’s easy to do.

      I did have to buy new markers recently and couldn’t find ones that would fit nicely in the pen loop, but carrying markers in my pocket is a risk I’m willing to take for the wonders of the reusable notebook.

    16. Ramona Flowers*

      Office supplies make me really happy. I work for a non-profit and they provide basic supplies but I prefer to buy my own notebooks, Pilot v-ball pens and cute sticky notes. I have more sticky notes than I can possibly actually use in one lifetime.

    17. Construction Safety*

      Nothing from Staples.

      Because when I go to the cabinet to get staples, all I can see are STAPLES!

      1. Susan*

        Haha, I have the same problem! My company gets all its office supplies from Staples, and it’s impossible to find the box of staples in a closet full of boxes labeled “STAPLES.” My trick for dealing with this is to print out a label in a distinctive color and font that says, “Staples for the stapler,” and stick it on the box of staples so that it stands out when I’m looking for actual staples.

    18. Anxa*

      My boyfriend bought me a gorgeous notebook (more of a journal). I’m in the process of using up all my crap and have been on a slow minimalism-esque journey and I smile every time I look at it, waiting in the wings. It was so expensive to me, but the perfect mix of pragmatic and romantic and I just love it!

      I have quite the pen collection.

      Anyone here every look at #studyblr and other stationary pxrn?

    19. HR Bee*

      I’m very seriously considering buying my own two-hole-punch and two-prong fasteners. At LastJob, I had created a very neat and clean filing system using two-prong fasteners to fasten files into sort of a book. They looked so nice, the files always stayed in chronological or alphabetical order, they were very easy to use. And punching the holes was very cathartic, because a two-hole punch has a longer lever arm than a standard three-hole punch and just feels good to use.

      I don’t actually have a REAL reason to take the time to reorganize all the files at NewJob the same way, but I miss using two-prong fasteners.

    20. JulieBulie*

      I can’t stand paper clips that ARE plastic/rubber coated!

      I like “ideal” clips (sometimes known as “butterfly clips”)

      I love fountain pens and little notebooks (but not Moleskines, grossly overrated IMO)

    21. voluptuousfire*

      Colored post its (never yellow!) and any color Sharpie marker that my heart desires. I <3 the latter part.

      I buy my own notebooks, Mead 5 Star single subject spiral notebooks. I get them on sale in August at my local supermarket for $2 a pop and I buy 5. That lasts me the year. I love them.

      Pens, as long as they write, I'm happy but I do love those Pilot InkJoy pens. I buy those for my house.

    22. Rachel in NYC*

      Currently, my wrist pillow. I hurt my wrist a while ago and recently stopped wearing a brace but being on a computer all day, it was suggested I get something for it. So I picked a little wrist pillow from the staples catalogue and it showed up the next day. It’s even better then my label maker…(though I don’t use that a ton)

    23. zora*

      I hate cheap pens and basically all ballpoints. I always buy my own Pilot gel pens bc my hands hurt if I have to use ballpoints too much. In one job we were required to use blue ink for certain things, so I brought in my own pens even though I was getting paid crap temp wages.

      I order office supplies here, and we have glass walls by our desks to be used as dry erase boards. I order the fun color combinations of dry erase markers, instead of just the boring primary colors.

    24. D.A.R.N.*

      CanNOT stand bic pens. Their rollerballs just don’t write for me. Give me a pentel V5 any day! At least then I won’t have hand cramps from trying to press so hard to get the lines legible. :)

    25. Ally A*

      I hate plastic/rubber coated paper clips. My old boss used to use them and when she’d give stuff to me with them on it I would change it for a metal one.
      I found really fine point dry erase markers – which I love. I have a huge chart on my whiteboard where I track email marketing rates and it’s so much easier with fine point markers.
      Also, I hate the plastic hanging file labels that you stick paper in. I use angled post-it brand flags.

    26. Chaordic One*

      Although my former workplace claimed that they were moving to a paperless office model, they still had tons of paper. One of the best investments that they could have made would have been to have had a good heavy-duty stapler to use on those stacks of paper that managed to be more than an eighth of an inch or so in thickness. It is worth splurging on.

      Other people in my office just went nuts for label printers and while I certainly do appreciate having them, I was never quite as an enthusiastic about them.

  34. starsaphire*

    Oh, this is such a tough situation!

    I have a very good friend in a similar situation — he’s high-functioning, incredibly smart, really good at his work… and yet he keeps having to change jobs because inevitably people start murmuring about how there’s just “something off” about him… whether he discloses in advance, or not.

    OP, I wish I had good advice for you, but honestly, it’s so hard to tell in advance whether a supervisor or HR would do better with all the information, or do better without their preconceived notions about the label.

    Best wishes, and best of luck.

  35. Susan*

    I have a coworker/friend who has been on paid suspension for a few weeks while she’s under investigation/review for some pretty serious misconduct. We’re not especially close, but we’ve hung out a few times outside of work, and she was extremely kind and welcoming to me when I started this job (which was also a long-distance move), so I’ll always be grateful for that.

    I’m pretty horrified by what she did, and I’m also annoyed that she’s getting a paid suspension (not even using her PTO) while the rest of us have to pick up her work. I don’t want to give anyone the impression that I condone what she did, but I feel like I should probably reach out to her just to say hi and ask how she’s doing. I’m not sure if I should call her, text her, send a message on Facebook, or what. Any advice on how to strike a balance between being disappointed in what she did but not wanting to completely shun her as a person or as a friend?

    1. NJ Anon*

      A “hi, how are you doing?” would be nice. I was in a similar situation and the person was so disappointed that no one reached out to see how she was holding up. Mistakes happen and they are still human.

    2. Sualah*

      I understand what you mean about her not having to use PTO, but all I can think is of the letter with the employee who framed the other employee because she was in an abusive relationship. I think a paid leave actually makes sense while something is being investigated.

    3. rubyrose*

      I would not call her, but contact her via some type of written communication that she can easily ignore if she wishes. She may be in a condition that she does not want to talk to anyone.

    4. Not my Circus, Not my Monkeys*

      IMHO, I’d stay away until the investigation is complete. You do not want to be in a position where she asks you what is going on or someone at the company thinks you are feeding her information about the investigation. Once the outcome is decided, you can reach out and send a friendly message thanking her for being so helpful when you started the job. But if the misconduct was bad enough for a multi-week investigation, I’d stay away from it until the dust settles. And then I would only reach out via personal systems, not the company’s.

      1. Susan*

        Yeah, I would definitely only contact her from home using my personal phone or e-mail… I really don’t know anything about the investigation, other than what the coworker in question told a mutual friend, because the company is being VERY secretive about it. I don’t think anyone would suspect I’m feeding her information, simply because I don’t have any information to feed her.

        1. Rachel in NYC*

          I might stay away from even that unless its known around the office that the two of you are office friends (go to lunch together, chat about your personal lives) as opposed to office acquaintances (you’ll chat if your near each other but that’s really it). This isn’t about judging her and you probably don’t know all of the specifics but its important that unless you contacting her would be seen as innocent if she comments about it to someone that you don’t.

    5. Observer*

      She’s getting paid suspension because it’s not definite that she did whatever it is that she is accused of.

      Suspending someone without pay is an awful thing to do to someone, unless it’s a last step before firing. It’s awful even if you have good reason to suspect something, because suspicion is not proof.

      If you want a good discussion of the matter go back to the discussion about the woman who faked fraud to get investigators into her office.

      Instead of being annoyed, be glad that you work for a company that apparently believes in threat their staff decently.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I would do zero contact. Any contact will muddy the waters.

      It could be that the investigation brings up nothing. When she returns you can say that you are so glad she is back.

      If the investigation turns up wrong doing, perhaps you can wait a bit and send her a card thanking her for being so welcoming when you started.

      I would expect no contact from coworkers if I was under investigation. Since you don’t know too much about what is going on, it is probably best that you maintain your distance. This is for your own protection.

      Look at it this way, she is not a close friend. If she were a closer friend you would already know by now what is going on and how she is doing. Sometimes it is best to take a step back and let things play out.

    7. Thlayli*

      If she is your friend and you don’t reach out to her during this time then you are basically choosing not to be her friend anymore.

      Definitely don’t give her any info at all about anything to do with work. If she asks just say you are contacting her as a friend and you can’t say anything about work at all. If she is a real friend she will understand.

      But if you want to remain friends with her you will have to at least send a text to say how are you?

      If you don’t do this then you are giving a pretty strong signal that her behaviour meant the end of your friendship.

      So it’s really up to you – if what she did was bad enough to end a friendship then don’t contact her. If it wasn’t that bad then contact her. If you don’t then there is about a 0% chance she will still consider you a friend afterwards.

    8. Bagpuss*

      I’d double check whether your office has any rules about contacting someone in this situation. Sometimes when someone is suspended / being investigated they may be told not to contact any of their colleagues and while it doesn’t sound as if you and other staff have not been told not to contact her, it might be sensible to be cautious.

      If you do reach out, use your personal, not work e-mail and keep away from the subject of the investigation. e.g. “I’ve been thinking of you, hope you are OK” or” Hope you’re OK – looking forward to meting up with you once this is all sorted”
      But also be honest with yourself. If the investigation determined that she had acted as alleged, and she is fired as a result, (or indeed if she decided to leave, whatever the outcome of the investigation) would you expect to stay friends with her, or is it just an in-work friendship? If it is, then it may be better to wait until the investigation is over, and then either send her a ‘welcome back’ message, or a ‘sorry to hear you’re leaving, wanted to thank you for how supportive and friendly you were when I joined’ one, as appropriate.

  36. Grey*

    Ok. It’s break time. One of my colleagues at another site just received an award. I know this because my company announced it via mass email.

    Now I’m going to relax, read AAM, sip coffee, and methodically delete the emails congratulating me, as they slowly come in, one by one, ding… ding…, because my colleagues can’t be arsed to type an email address instead of clicking “Reply All”.

    This will take a while. Bring it on. I’m ready.

    1. Amber Rose*

      At one point, I ended up on a customer’s mailing list who is also part of a large, nation wide animal rescue non-profit thing, and I kept getting included in her emails to everyone about this non-profit. I just ignored them because it was like, once every couple months and I like animals.

      Then one day, Amber N. who is part of the org got a promotion. And since everyone was just typing in amber and letting auto complete do the rest, I got like 50 congratulatory emails, some semi-personal.

      I felt really bad for the other Amber and tried to correct people but man, that was annoying.

    2. Blue eagle*

      Here’s an idea. Why not “reply” to everyone who uses “reply all” to hit your e-mail with the words “Thank You.” If they are forcing you to read and delete an e-mail from them, you are merely returning the favor. Who knows – maybe if enough people did this they would stop using “reply all”.

      1. Grey*

        That’s really tempting but seems to passive aggressive for my personality. I’d bet most of my coworkers are tired of this but no one wants to be the one to complain.

        I’d like to suggest that future memos have an added line for the lazy folks that says something like, “send your congratulations to fergus@example.com“.

    3. Natalie*

      If you use Outlook, I’d like to introduce you to the Ignore button, which will send all future emails in that thread to the destination of your choice, like the Trash folder.

      1. Grey*

        Yes. Outlook. Tell me more. I can’t seem to find this option.

        I just had a co-worker actually type the email address for the right person, but then CC everyone else. Why?!

        1. JulieBulie*

          “Home” tab, “Delete” group, “Ignore” icon is right next to the giant X icon for delete.

          I have never used it before. I never even noticed it before today. Thank you, Natalie!

        2. Natalie*

          Not sure if you’re using the same version as me, but if I open a message there is a little button to the left of the big Delete button. The mouse-over text says “Ignore Conversation”.

          1. JulieBulie*

            Oh – I was looking in the main window. I deal with most of my mail (especially the unwanted stuff) just by looking at it in the preview pane, without ever actually opening the message.

              1. Workaholic*

                OMG! Thank you for this tip! Somebody got promoted yesterday and a company wide email went out and next thing you know all the “reply all” emails started arriving. I can hardly wait to start using this!

        3. Grey*

          I found the Ignore button, but it’s greyed out. Maybe my employer has some way of disabling it?

  37. FDCA In Canada*

    Readers in client-centred nonprofits/social service arenas, a question. I work in a government-funded not-for-profit employment centre (mostly AAM-approved advice! No capes here!), and while we have our issues with management, mostly it’s fine. One of my coworkers is obsessed with seeing herself as a “nurturing, caring person,” and describes herself that way to everyone, implying that the rest of us are “cold, uncaring, and cruel” for setting appropriate boundaries with clients. (The quotes are more or less direct–she’s definitely said “I could never be so uncaring,” in reference to other coworkers saying that they were going to take a light touch with a client or that they were doing well and would be bumped down the priority list.) She’s close to my boss, who tells us all the time my coworker is “going through hard times,” but honestly we’re all tired of being treated as if we don’t care just because we aren’t going to make our clients the centre of our lives. We know we’re in the right, ethically, but the environment here is becoming mega frustrating. Is there a good way to approach my boss about this and ask if she can have our coworker rein in the judgment a little? Or a lot?

    1. fposte*

      Going to a boss seems like overkill, especially since you haven’t directly communicated anything to her about it. I think this could be made into a small deal and that that’s more effective than making it a big deal. I’d respond to stuff when it comes up. “That surprises me–you really think it’s more important to keep the functional person on the visit list at the expense of the person who’s just lost her house?” When she characterizes herself in a seemingly exclusive way as warm and caring, you just laugh and say “Because the rest of us are here for the high salaries?” It’s just her being her. It doesn’t mean anything about you, and she can think what she wants.

      1. FDCA In Canada*

        Part of the reason none of us want to approach her directly is her wild vindictiveness–if she’s upset, it means she’s going to be stomping around the office, slamming cabinets, complaining loudly to herself, generally behaving like she’s having an adult tantrum, and speaking with the boss rather than us other peons seems to mitigate that a bit.

        1. fposte*

          That’s a lot bigger problem than her self-congratulations, IMHO. Self-congratulations are “my co-worker doesn’t think of me the way I want”; that’s not a boss problem. Tantrums are “my coworker is unprofessional about daily life negotiation,” which can be a boss problem. But I would still go ahead with the direct pushback and let the chips fall where they may, and take it to the boss if the chips are particularly untenable.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Agreeing with fposte. I would report the temper tantrums first and foremost.

          You could say, “You know, it seems like you say that a lot. You do not have a corner on that market, we all care.”
          When it happens again, you can increase what you say, “Eh, we have talked about this before. You are not the only person here who cares and you need to stop saying that.”

    2. Rachel in NYC*

      I wouldn’t go to your boss about the bit about how your boss treats your co-worker (unless there becomes specific things you can point to showing that someone else is going through worse things and it doesn’t impact her or that co-worker is lying). But perhaps if several of you are willing to get together and go to your boss and ask her for your help- tell her that it seems that coworkers methods are preferred and you are looking for her advice as to how she would like you to prioritize clients. And give examples- typically I would move Amy down the appointment list she now gotten point X and should be able to handle 1,2 & 3 on her own, which will allow me to take on Waldo as a patient. However I know that coworker typically keeps clients until they get to point Z before moving them down the appointment list.

    3. Chaordic One*

      Just as an observation, maybe your coworker cares too much?

      I’m not sure that there is any help for that.

    4. Sunshine Brite*

      Sounds like she’s coming from a place of sympathy rather than empathy. That level of self -importance leads to inappropriate relationships with clients who will depend on her rather than their own skills

  38. LAI*

    Has anyone ever taken a job for the salary, and did you regret it? I know this is a really personal decision that will be different for everyone. I love the job I’m in but there are no opportunities for growth or a raise. I think I’m about to be offered a job that would be a significant pay increase but for work I’m less interested in doing. It’s still related to my field but doesn’t include the elements I enjoy most in my current role.

    1. YarnOwl*

      As someone who is very much a “work to live” person, I left my last job because they said I would get a raise and it never came. The company also had a reputation for promising people raises/commissions/bonuses and not delivering, so I knew I would never be paid what I was worth or what I was promised.

      That said, I also made sure to do my due diligence on the company and their culture. I got very lucky and moved into a job I love and to a company that treats me really well, but I would definitely be willing to move to a potentially less interesting job role if 1) the money was better and 2) the company culture was something I was comfortable with.

      I think you just have to balance everything out and decide what you’re okay with, but I don’t think taking a potentially less interesting job for more money/potential for growth is weird or bad at all.

    2. Shadow*

      Yes. They’re are trade offs as you probably imagine. Ultimately I took it to pay off debt and increase my savings. I started looking when I got into a better financial position.

    3. Jan Levinson*

      I recently accepted a promotion within my company for a pay bump. I really, really loved by previous job, so I’m fearful that I’ll regret changing jobs if I don’t like this one as much, or end up not being as successful at it. My husband is in graduate school, though, so being the only bread winner in the family, it was too tempting to pass up.

    4. KateS*

      I did that a few years ago and it was worth it. I’m not in that role any longer and I don’t miss it, but I learned a lot of skills while in it that I didn’t anticipate. When I returned to something closer to my previous role, I felt like I had leveled up in a lot of skills without even realizing it at the time and I definitely was ahead of my peers in pay scale.

    5. Jules the First*

      Yes and yes. Twice.

      Hopefully I have now learned my lesson for my latest job hunt…money is nice, but not hating yourself nine hours a day, five days a week is better.

      For you, it’s important to think about how important the extra cash is vs losing the parts of the work you enjoy most. If the extra cash makes big improvements to the rest of your life, then go for it, but if not, I’d think really really hard.

      1. LAI*

        It’s not so much that I need the extra cash – I’m getting along fine on what I make now. It’s more that I’m worried about career stagnation if I stay in the same position for a long time with no salary increases. I know that will hurt my earning potential over the long run. Plus, it’s partially just that I feel like I’m operating at a high level now in my current role, and that’s not being rewarded in any financial way. I make the same amount, or in some cases less, than coworkers who are significantly less productive than me.

    6. CrazyEngineerGirl*

      Is it just that the work doesn’t include the elements you enjoy most, or is it work you actively dislike? That would make a big difference to me. If it was work I had done before and KNEW I didn’t like doing, I don’t think I’d do it. But if it was work I just felt ho-hum about or work I hadn’t done before but didn’t think sounded as interesting as what I was currently doing (which could surprise you and being something you actually like) I’d seriously consider it. Companies that don’t follow through with raises/promotions never seem to change.

      1. LAI*

        It’s not work I dislike. It’s like I’m currently a teapot maker and the new role would be sort of like training other teapot makers. I’ve already mentioned in the interview that I’d love if some of my time could be still set aside for making my own teapots but it’ll definitely be a big decrease from what I currently do.

        And it’s not that my current company doesn’t follow through with promised raises – they’ve been very up-front with us that raises are really not likely to happen anytime soon.

    7. Bess*

      Early on in career I didn’t pursue some interesting options that would have paid pittance, for options that were more boring, but provided a steady paycheck (not amazing money but steady). TBH I don’t regret it, although I angsted at the time a bit. I was bored a LOT at these jobs, but also used the time to teach myself other stuff, and to have some brain space for the things I liked to do on the side. And I gained some really practical skills (and discovered some talents) that I never would have otherwise. So it wasn’t wasted, and it really helped me to better and better jobs down the line, PLUS I wasn’t constantly at the cusp of financial ruin.

      Kinda depends on the financial level you’re at now, too. Is it just okay, or are you making so little that you’re constantly stressed or putting important financial goals on hold? How long have you been at the current place, and are you stagnating to where it’d hurt your future prospects? Also, do you love this job PLUS fit PLUS environment PLUS coworkers PLUS boss, or just the job tasks?

      Also–are you pretty sure you’ll actually like this job less, or is it something you’ll dread doing? That’s a tough move to do just for the money, if you’re not in a critical financial position. Or is it just a type of job you’re not as familiar with? Could be a tradeoff. Just thoughts, not sure if any of it’s helpful :)

  39. The Real Odafin Tutola*

    I’m going anon in case anyone tracks me down!

    So we had an away day work thing the other week. It was team building, making your team work more effectively (allegedly). It was pretty awful in that the “coach” was quite abrupt and rude, pedantic with one of my colleagues (she wouldn’t let him explain generally but wanted him to explain specifically, even though the answers were the same) and she even was rude to our Big Boss Manager.

    It did not go down well.

    Not only that but the coach herself had private screensaver pictures that came on – we saw one of her grandchildren having a bath in the sink – and we know that she’d arranged a dental apt for the week after.

    The food was also v poor from our venue and we were all starving after!

    There will now hopefully be no more such things (last yrs one was also a disaster) and maybe we will do something fun like go to the zoo (another dept in our building went there).

    1. Elizabeth West*

      One of the tasks at the job I interviewed for last week was planning team-building events. I hate those with a passion, but if I were helping plan them, I could steer them away from crap, heh heh.

    2. Parenthetically*

      Uuuuugggggghhh. I don’t think I’ve ever had a good experience with “team building” activities led by outside sources. Did a ropes course once where the program runners were a bunch of surly college bros whose idea of motivation was, “Come ON! Just DO it! It’s not that HARD! Let’s GO!” and who treated those of us who noped out on the high stuff like we were a bunch of whiny babies.

    3. Anxa*

      My major gripe about team building is that I’d often much rather just have dedicated time to actually get to know my team. Not how well they climb a rope or what color their personality is, but what want out our job, what they think we could improve on, what brought them to the same position as me, what projects would be good for them. I’ve had some jobs where there aren’t a lot of meetings or cohesive teams, but every term there’s a team building exercise when if you just paid us to come to work a day early and set up some workshop groups for us to talk, we’d actually probably get a lot more out of it!

  40. Pam Beasley*

    I have a question about switching careers, and the education that would be required.

    I have a bachelor’s degree in business administration (major in finance). I’m really interested in teaching (think high school accounting, personal finances, etc.) In order to teach, would I be required to go back to school and get a degree in education in addition to my current degree? Or, are there teaching opportunities available for people who have degrees like mine, who want to teach the particular subject that said major is in?

    1. Variations on a theme*

      I’d take a look at the kind of places you want to teach and go from there.

      I’d say from my experience (in California, so it may be different for you!), a teaching credential is required for any teaching you do at the K-12 level at a public school. For community college/university, it’s often very specific training in your chosen field.

      Private schools, on the other hand, don’t always require teaching specific qualifications but rather rely on your knowledge and experience. Maybe see if there’s a private high school near you with roles you might be eligible for? Or, if you’re enterprising enough, maybe pitch a workshop series you host outside of school hours/as an “extracurricular” and do a sort of impromptu internship to get the experience?

    2. Turkletina*

      My understanding is that this really depends on the state! Here, you need to get a certification (I think this includes coursework and student teaching) in order to teach in public schools. Private schools may be different, too.

      1. Newby*

        It definitely varies by state. My mom became a teacher and was required to get a master’s in education, then moved to another state and the degree was no longer required.

    3. Liz*

      Some places allow “lateral entry,” or at least that’s what they called it in North Carolina – I had a teacher who did it that way. (Of course NC has like the lowest teacher pay in the whole country, so, be wary of that particular state…)

      1. Parenthetically*

        There was a similar program in CO when I was in high school. People with existing Masters-or-higher degrees could take a different track.

    4. Shadow*

      Before you go into teaching I would really recommend talking to people who taught at some point and currently teach. I have quite a few friends that had their hearts set on teaching and only a few of them are still doing it. The rest liked the concept of teaching but didn’t realize the crap that comes with being a teacher

      1. Muriel Heslop*

        Definitely this. If you have friends who are teachers, maybe you could visit their classes and check out the current school climate.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        This. I started grad school for an education degree, and nobody told me until I was halfway through that in my state, I needed the master’s degree to be in the subject, not the bachelor’s degree. Also, many of the other students were already teaching, mostly elementary education, and supplementing their educational training, and listening to them complain about it turned me off. And I didn’t want to get a doctorate, which I would have needed to teach at the college level. Total waste of money.

      3. Natalie*

        It also might be good to take some pedagogy courses even if your state doesn’t require any additional education. “Teaching” is its own skill independent of “finance” or “biology” or whatever.

      4. AGirlCalledFriday*

        This is fabulous advice. I’m completely burnt out after 7 years as a teacher, and it’s not the actual teaching that’s doing it – it’s the discipline issues, not being able to go to the bathroom when I need to, being so overloaded with work and so exhausted with needy students that I’m a lump at the end of the day, barely able to drag myself home just to fall asleep on the couch most nights, then wake up and do more work. For some people, at some schools, teaching can be great. For a lot of others…well, there’s a reason that fewer and fewer people are going into education.

        1. Anxa*

          Yeah, every time I look at my finances and my piddly paycheck and wish I were making a K12 teaching salary, I remind myself that I don’t have to do classroom management, wake up early, do all the paperwork, or deal with parents.

      5. Bess*

        yeeeeeeeesssssssssssss

        Please do this, OP. Maybe you have already, but it’s worth mentioning. Teaching is very rewarding but very taxing/costly in other ways.

      6. Thlayli*

        Definitely. And realise that teaching teenagers is a LOT different from teaching younger children. And the school / area makes a big difference too. In my country there are some schools in really disadvantaged areas where the teachers aim is to spend only 50% of their time keeping order and 50% teaching – as in if you manage to spend half of your time actually teaching that’s considered a good day! I definitely couldn’t teach 16 year olds.

    5. Kreacher the Teacher*

      At least in UT, there is something called the Alternate Route to Licensure or the Alternate Teaching Pathway (ARL or ATP), depending on what university you get your licensure through. Generally, you’ll apply for a job, get hired, then teach while doing part-time schooling in the teacher licensure program. Several teachers at the school I work at are doing so – actually, one has their degree in finance and spent several years in that world before coming back to teach! I imagine other states have similar programs. Try searching “your state name + alternate teaching license” and see what comes up! Additionally, there are several M.Ed. degree options for people who received a bachelor’s in a non-education program, that would boost your salary from the get-go if you wanted to wait a couple years.

      While private schools and charter schools do have more flexibility on the requirements for their teachers, they also tend to pay a much smaller salary than public schools. That may not be a concern for you, but I would research it first. It makes a big difference in UT where many of us are paid a pittance anyway. ;)

      Good luck – we need great teachers!

    6. Muriel Heslop*

      In Texas, where I teach, there are definitely alternate paths to certification that do not require much additional educations. Some paths are better than others, of course.

      I would also encourage you to substitute – at least a few times – to see what you might want to do and to get some good information from current teachers in your specific area. For example, the last high school in which I taught, we had two business ed teachers for 3400 students. Opening yourself up to teach an adjacent subject like math or even economics might help your search.

      Good luck!

    7. Lemon Zinger*

      It’s highly unlikely that you would have to get another degree. Your state probably requires certification of some kind, but pretty much anyone with a bachelor’s degree can get those. Look up the specifics for your state.

      Know that private schools may have relaxed rules about certification, so it might be easier for you to get in there.

      Sounds like you’d be a great business/accounting teacher! Good luck!

    8. English Teacher (2nd career)*

      A few years ago I went back to school for a teaching license. For the program I went into, you needed at least a Bachelor’s degree for. The types of programs you want to look into: Transition to Teaching, Change to Education. For Finance/Business, you would most likely go into a program that is for Secondary Education (middle and high school). These programs, depending on the school, can be anywhere from 1.5 years to 3 years. Mine was 1.5 years which included a semester of student teaching. They can be online, brick and mortar colleges, or a hybrid style.

      I have a few Theatre degrees and so I was able to go through this program and take the state licensing exams for both Theatre and English.

    10. Becca*

      As others have said— it really depends where you live and what kind of school you want to teach at. For a public high school teacher in Massachusetts, for example, you need a Master’s Degree— but you don’t in every state! Private schools and charter schools often have different requirements, too. I would recommend looking requirements in your area for public schools and, if you’re interested in teaching in private/charter schools, do a little research on those requirements as well.

      If you’re feeling particularly ambitious, you could also sign up for a site like SchoolSpring and look at job openings in your area for your preferred positions. Good luck!!

    11. ..Kat..*

      I would suggest that you talk with a lot of teachers, maybe volunteer as a classroom aide one day a week, or something to make sure you really want to do this. Teachers are great. The kindest and most influential people in my life when I was young were teachers. But, it is a difficult career. It is also a career that a high percentage of practitioners drop out of in a few years.

  41. Sugar of lead*

    I got a job at the end of last month and honestly I hate it. It’s not the work–I love the work, even though it can be dull at times. It’s just that we work in pairs, and I’ve had maybe two partners I’ve liked so far. The rest have made it very clear they don’t like working with me, and frankly, I don’t like working with them. On the one hand, I’m still new and maybe sooner or later I’ll get a steady partner who likes me, and that would be awesome. On the other hand, life is too short to spend around people who hate your guts, and I’m not sure how much more of this I can take. If I did leave, it wouldn’t be too much of a problem, since I’m a chronic job-hopper anyway and I usually apply for minimum-wage jobs that will hire anyone.

    So, what do you think: should I stay or cut my losses? If I do stay, does anyone have any strategies for getting through the day working with someone who hates you? I’ve been listening to headphones and stabbing my arm with a pen so far.

    1. NoMoreMrFixit*

      Cut your losses and find greener pastures. I made the mistake of staying in a very similar situation. If you can’t stand the people you work with eventually you will come to hate the work no matter how much you love it currently.

    2. Inspector Spacetime*

      I’d stay while job searching. If things haven’t improved by the time you find a new job, then you can leave your jerk coworkers in the dust.

    3. Jules the Third*

      You love the work and have been here 6 weeks? Stay. Put in the time, because not-job hopping can help you get to a place where you both love the work and don’t hate the coworkers.

      Ways to get through with people who hate you?
      – Kill them with kindness. If they’re confused, it’s fun, but it can actually lead to not hating.
      – Think of it as an acting role
      – Find a low-cost counselor / therapist to help you develop other personalized responses.

      Stabbing your arm with a pen is self-harm. It’s part of a bigger problem, and a counselor might help you with it. Sez the goth(ish) old woman who has had a lot of goth friends who sound just like this letter. All the survivors have all been a lot happier with a therapist in their Team Me.

      1. Say what, now?*

        Look into this. See if your company has an ESA to help you out. Often times they have some over the phone counseling that can at least help you feel heard. Also, as someone who can be distant, I can tell you that it’s entirely possible that they don’t hate your guts. Some people (myself included) just don’t want to make friends with their coworkers. That’s not to say they hate you, they just don’t want to be friends with you.

        I would also suggest that there are a lot of people who “hate” the new guys simply because he/she challenges their patience and slows them down with their lack of experience. You’re only 6 weeks in and probably not up to their level yet. It’s entirely possible that once you get there the animosity will evaporate. That’s not great for right now but it’s a bright spot to look forward to later.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      How can people hate your guts if they have only known you for six weeks?

      My answer is a difficult answer. To get through the day with someone who hates you, you need to stop hating them. Find reasons. They need to earn a living just like you. They are stuck with a random partner just like you. The two of you share a responsibility for particular tasks. Keep going you will think of other reasons.

      Chronic job hopping: If we look for reasons to leave a job we WILL find those reasons each and every time. The real strength is finding reasons to stay in spite of what is going wrong.

  42. Is it Friday Yet?*

    I saw this advice in the news this week and wanted to bring it up for discussion in the open thread. It recommends women who have gaps in their résumé due to having a child add “The Pregnancy Gap” as a company and job title as “Mom” during those periods. To quote the article, “In order to help moms who are trying to resume their careers after taking time off to have kids, Mother New York created The Pregnancy Pause. Now, women can fill the “gaps” in their résumé in a way that accurately reflects what they were doing: birthing and raising a human.” It even goes so far as to include a phone number that can be included for a reference.

    In my opinion, this is distracting and would stick out like a sore thumb and perhaps detract from more relevant experience. But I’m curious as to what other readers think.

    3. Variations on a theme*

      Noooooo!

      I can think of a few organizations that would appreciate this as an example of valuable experience for their work, but only a very few.

      Mentioning motherhood might fill in the “gaps” on your resume, but it’s going to be utterly irrelevant in describing “work experience” to a hiring manager. Like it or not, illegal or not, it’s also going to impact the way they see you and review your application. At worst, it will make an overly conscientious employer bring you in for an interview you have no hope of succeeding at just so they can prove to HR that they’ve covered the bases and definitely not discriminated against you based on a protected status.

      This is very much more a negative than a positive.

    6. Clever Name*

      Just no. I have a 2-year gap in my resume because I stayed home when my son was a baby, but it’s certainly not on my resume. When I first went back to work, I explained it in my cover letter. It seemed to work, as I got a job, and have been continuously been employed for 8 years after returning to work.

    7. Abax*

      Ugh, no. Comes across as either cutesy or self-inflated. Remember way back when some women re-entering the workforce were told to put Domestic Engineer as their previous position? Just, no.

    8. Katie the Fed*

      No no no no no.

      Being a mother is a wonderful, important thing! I’m really looking forward to it myself. But it’s completely irrelevant to the point of a resume which is to show WORK history.

      I would really side-eye someone who did this, and question their professional judgment.

    9. PB*

      Ick. I have no end of respect for mothers. Bringing life into the world and raising are child are both unbelievable sacrifices. They deserve to be honored and respected. But if I saw this on a resume, I would have serious reservations about the candidate. For one, it suggests that they have no idea what “relevant professional experience” means. For another, I would question their professionalism. I, for one, am not bothered by a gap of a few years on a resume. There are so many reasons it could be there, and none of them are my business. This would be far more troubling to me.

      1. Is it Friday Yet?*

        And if you’ve never heard of it, and the candidate uses a title besides “Mom,” it sounds like it could be an actual company. So when you find out it’s not, it’s a little bit like the candidate put fake information on her resume.

    10. Natalie*

      “I want to roll my eyes right now but the doctor said if I keep doing it, my ocular muscles might spasm and eject my eyeballs.”

      1. Knitchic*

        Thank god I wear glasses then if that happens to me that should keep mine from shooting across the room.

    14. Dienna Howard*

      I think about the episode of “The Simpsons” where Marge’s resume simply says “Homemaker” and Lisa pads the mess out of it to make Marge appear to have a lot more non-home work experience than she does. Lisa’s doctored resume makes Marge appear overqualified to work at Homer’s nuclear power plant, but oddly enough she may be more qualified than Homer to work there! HAHA

    15. Thlayli*

      That sounds idiotic!

      Maybe if you were applying for a job in which your mommy experience was actually relevant – like working in a creche or something. But for any other job this is going to make you look like an idiot.

  43. Turkletina*

    I applied for a job last month. Last Friday, I got an email asking me to come in for an interview, with a list of time slots to choose from. I chose a slot next Tuesday, which they confirmed with me on Monday. Tuesday afternoon (a week before the interview), I got a voicemail asking if I could come in on Wednesday (the next day) or Thursday instead, since they were trying to condense the interview process. I returned the call later Tuesday afternoon saying that I’d be happy to come in earlier than planned, but that the specific times they mentioned in the voicemail wouldn’t be possible because of my current work schedule and named some alternatives. When they didn’t return my call, I sent an email to the same effect Wednesday morning. Since then, I haven’t heard anything. Not even confirmation that I should come in on Tuesday as originally planned.

    This is weird, right? I’d expect to get some kind of communication indicating they understand that not everyone can change their plans for the following day but they’d still like to speak to me (Or even not speak to me! If they really need that level of flexibility, I’m fine not being interviewed.), but maybe my expectations are off.

    1. fposte*

      I think that falls into the category of “annoying but understandable.” You’ve probably got an admin running around trying to reschedule stuff, and who should contact you to respond but is still playing schedule-Tetris so hasn’t gotten there yet.

      1. HR Bee*

        Having been exactly this admin, I second this. You reached out, so the ball is in their court. I’d be patient. If you haven’t heard anything in a reasonable amount of time (a week?) check in once more.

        I would also like to point out that sometimes (many times) the person dictating the interview schedule and the person responsible for actually doing the scheduling are two different people. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had a hiring manager suddenly go “reschedule that interview, something’s come up” and leave me to handle that.

        (It’s also possible the company is disorganized or this particular admin is flaky, tho, so proceed with eyes open.)

        1. fposte*

          Well, she probably can’t wait a full week because she’s got an interview scheduled with them Tuesday :-). I’d reach out Monday to confirm that if there’s been no word.

  44. over educated*

    I just need to vent a little about the shoe dropping at work. As I’ve mentioned before, I’m on a two year grant, not an employee, in a new position my supervisor created. I took this position nine months ago, and moved a few hundred miles with my family, in the hope that it would help me move into a more permanent job with the employer afterward. (This is not unheard of for recipients of this grant, but it’s not universal either. It was a calculated risk that looked like the best option at the time.)

    At our staff meeting this week, our division’s management (1 & 2 levels up from my supervisor) announced that they hired an employee from a related division for a new position that overlaps significantly with my responsibilities. This was news to everyone else in the division, including my supervisor, even though it must have been in the works since around when I started. The new person starts at the end of May. I’m not sure what this means for how my position will change, because they made the public announcement but haven’t bothered to talk to my boss and me about the division of responsibilities. Great.

    I’m not actually losing my job because I am free labor to my employer, so why would they fire me, but this means there is no future for me here. They definitely won’t hire me on in this role since now they have an employee for it, and with a hiring freeze and large budget reductions expected, it seems doubtful that there will be any other roles for me to move into. My boss likes me and has said multiple times that he wishes he could keep me on, but even that phrasing shows that it’s pretty unlikely. So now I know for sure we’re going to have to uproot our lives again soon, and it makes me sad.

    Since I need to build my resume and portfolio more urgently now, my more immediate fear is that I don’t want my role to turn into an “assistant” or support person to the full employee. I’m in my 30s with a grad degree and a few years of experience, and I didn’t uproot my life, family, and spouse’s job to move backward in my career. I hope we can figure out a division of projects that will keep me lead on some. I also need to take networking and grant applications a lot more seriously now.

    TL;DR I am definitely out of a job in a little over a year and my job will be changing in unexpected ways very soon.
    Appreciate that I can talk about it in this space and community here.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      Ugh that sucks. This is exactly why I don’t want to move cross-country for a contract position. At least you have a heads-up; can you start looking for a permanent position where you are now? I’d also sit down with my boss and discuss the projects and responsibilities thing now rather than wait to see what you’re assigned, if you can.

      1. over educated*

        The problem is my boss won’t be the boss of the new hire, so he has to figure out that division with the department leadership. Maybe I should talk to him and try to let him know what would be best from my perspective beforehand, though.

        I guess moving cross-country for contract positions seemed…kind of inevitable to me. I’m married to an academic in the early career stage that involves moving around the country for one to three year gigs anyway, so I figured I should take the best opportunity I got rather than the most local since that’s what he has to do too. (The most local ones paid a lot less so they would’ve been hard to support the whole family on.) But I was still hoping to settle down around here.

          1. Overeducated*

            Spouse’s postdoc ends this summer and he is looking for work in this area. No offers yet, unfortunately, and the academic hiring cycle is basically over for 2017 so the odds of his getting a permanent job anywhere are low.

            I really thought that I would have more stability if I left academia…now I have less creative work, a more fixed schedule, and less time off compared to him, but still no stability.

    2. Jules the Third*

      Good luck, but don’t give up! The new hire may well not work out, or may want to move on to new fields quickly, which means there’s a position *already created* that does what you do. That makes it much easier to move over. Make sure you *and your manager* are talking to that position’s manager early and often, so that if things don’t work out with the new hire, they think of you immediately.

      1. over educated*

        The new hire is someone we all know, work with occasionally, and know the quality of their work and career path, so I’m pretty sure it will work out well. My boss’s boss (who might be that person’s new manager?) actually did say that if they hadn’t taken the job, they would encourage me to apply, but they did take it and that’s that. I think my best bet here would be if they needed to replace someone from another program area in my department, which means I need to talk to my boss about cross-training outside of my current job description. As a non-employee I couldn’t just be hired directly though, so I’d still be at a severe advantage compared to anyone with employee status.

        Thanks for the encouragement. I’m not rejecting it, just trying to think through what has to happen.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Stupid question. Can you apply for the new hire’s old job? It’s probably not as straight forward as this, but I wanted to throw it out there anyway.

          1. Overeducated*

            Due to the hiring freeze it probably won’t be filled for a while. (I have no idea what machinations our leadership went through to make this hire, as we are down two senior positions, one of which is mission critical, and they haven’t been able to fill those.) But I’m not sure if I’d be eligible – our division has two main areas, and my degree and position are area A, her old job was in area B, and her new job covers both.

  45. tiny temping teapot*

    Work advice? My phone conversations at work are generally receiving instructions from the two senior teapot makers I am a sort of executive assistant for (so I need to take notes) or relaying important information to them they have to get from me. But we have the low wall cubicles and there is so often so much conversation around me. The question is not about stopping those other conversations or moving, it’s literally, how do I train myself to tune out the white noise? Is there a way to do that?

    1. Amber Rose*

      My process:

      Step 1: crank the volume on your phone so you can hear them really, really loudly (within reason).
      Step 2: Stare at your notes. Don’t look up from them. Focus just on what’s in front of you. The more you develop tunnel vision, the easier it is to ignore everything outside your tunnel.
      Optional Step 3: Put a single earplug in your opposite ear, or otherwise cover it. I know this works for some people and distracts others.

        1. Rick Tq*

          See if you can get a binaural phone headset (covers both ears) at a minimum. If that isn’t enough other options are using an earplug phone headset under sound cancelling headphones or going all the way to blue-tooth connected sound cancelling pilot headsets for serious noise control (for serious dollars, of course).

          I have a Jabra UC Voice 550 that works very well for Skype calls.

  46. Amber Rose*

    Well. I messed up again, and had more tasks taken away from me. Which on the one hand, I like. I always hated doing these things, and just judging by the screw ups, I’m friggin’ awful at them. On the other hand, my confidence is utterly shot and I feel like shit.

    I won’t be fired. I asked (I am blunt like that, not sure if that’s a good thing). But I feel like my reputation is completely and utterly torched with this company now. I feel like a loser who couldn’t even do a simple task. I also feel angry and frustrated and a little harshly treated. Like I’ve been set up to fail.

    I’m basically at a point now where finding a job is my only option because I’m burned out and miserable every day. But unemployment is sitting at 10% and jobs are scarce. How do I stay sane? How do I not let this job wreck my health?

    1. Teapot Queen*

      Honestly? Start looking elsewhere. Your situation sounds like one I was in a few years ago. It didn’t end well. You sound angry and bitter and disillusioned. I was too. The more I screwed up, the more I kept screwing up because management started eroding my confidence. I was in counseling at the time, and I’d suggest you might try seeking someone to talk to who is objective. It might help before this becomes an explosive situation.

      In the meantime, try and build a wall between their actions and your emotions. Not easy to do, I realize. But no job is worth wrecking your mind/health/free time over.

    2. Shadow*

      you’ve got to decide what’s more important right now-a job you like or a paycheck. If you need a paycheck you don’t have to like what you’re doing you just have to do it a level that’s acceptable to your boss to stay employed. That means accepting that the work you’re doing right now won’t be fulfilling and will probably suck and is only a job to hold you over until you find more fulfilling work.

      1. Amber Rose*

        My work is pretty fulfilling actually. I’m good at the job I was hired to do, and an assortment of other jobs I picked up I’m more or less OK at. I failed at accounts receivables. Badly. But they were so angry about it that I’m at a point where I feel like my accomplishments elsewhere are now meaningless and that I’m worthless because I failed a job I never wanted to do or claimed I could do.

        I like so much of my job but it’s hard to care about doing it when I’m treated like crap because I can’t do everything.

        1. Shadow*

          If you’re being treated like crap it can’t be fulfilling and the only way to survive is to check out emotionally until you find a better environment. OTOH if your boss is just attempting to manage your shortcomings dont confuse that with treating you like crap. It’s transactional. She’s simply addressing the issues, not you as a person.

        2. Birdbrain*

          My two cents: this sounds like it’s at least partly a “management fail.” If you’re “treated like crap” because you can’t do everything, that’s not reasonable. Obviously I don’t know the whole story but it sounds like they are taking it out on you to reduce their own responsibility on the mistake. (Yes, you made a mistake. Yes, it is reasonable for them to point that out and take you off that task. But your bosses could have taken action earlier if it was clear you were struggling, or they could have chosen to reassign the work after the mistake without being horrible about it).

          If you like your job and are good at the projects that are still on your plate, I would bet you can come back from this. Wouldn’t hurt to put some feelers out, though — because this sounds like an unpleasant environment and it may keep eroding your confidence. Also, are there coworkers who can give you informal feedback on the other areas of your performance? That may give you a reality check when you’re feeling like your whole career is summed up by this one task.

        3. Rachel in NYC*

          Ask yourself (and your boss) whether this is something you can recover from at this employer. Do they acknowledge that your problem areas are in add-on tasks (outside what you were hired for)? Did they provide sufficient support for you to accomplish them successfully so that their expectations weren’t unreasonable?

          If you don’t end up with the right answers at the end of the day, I agree- start looking. I had a former co-worker who was kept for years until it got to the point where so many tasks had been taken from her that no one seemed clear what she did anymore, until she was finally let go.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      You stay sane by building a path out of this place. Work on doing something to get yourself to a better place daily if possible.

      And you protect your health by doing good self care. Situations like this can mean candy and other junk all the time. Try your best every day to eat healthy meals. This will also help brain function and help you keep your sanity.
      Hydration is super important, before people die of dehydration they lose their mental functions. Stay hydrated.
      Exercise. A ten minute walk every day can do wonders for clearing up brain clutter and wonders for your body.
      Self-talk. If you constantly remind yourself that unemployment is at 10% (or similar things) you are not helping you. The rule is if you can’t say it to a friend then you shouldn’t be saying it to yourself either. If you slip up, quickly tell yourself an affirmation. “Just because unemployment is at 10% does NOT automatically mean there is no new job out there for me. I can find a new job if I work at it.”

      It’s one thing if the boss hates us. If we hate ourselves that is a much bigger problem. Go easy on you and take good care of yourself.

  47. Mona Lisa*

    Looking for thoughts and opinions on: what is suitable to wear at your office when not on the clock, specifically in regards to commuting? (Non-drivers would be helpful here!)

    I walk the two miles each way to my office every day. I live in a southern-ish place where it gets very hot and humid during the summer. Last year I started bringing some old shorts and a tank top to work so that I could change before going home. I work on the academic side of a university hospital so I tried to find a bathroom off a lobby furthest from my office that was in the direction I’d be walking. It worked a couple of times, but it seems that the cleaning schedule for this restroom typically overlaps with my commute so at least 3/5 days a week I could not use that facility to change.

    I started changing at a restroom down the hall from my office instead, but I feel self-conscious about the faculty and students with whom I work seeing me in less-than-appropriate office attire. I sometimes run into them with my walking clothes on, and I’ve had a few comment on my appearance. Most people in this area drive and so do not understand why I would be dressed so casually. They seem to understand after I explain my situation (even if they’re a bit incredulous), but I can’t shake the feeling that maybe I’m doing something inappropriate. I could probably find another (not as conveniently located) place to change, but since this is a hospital complex, I don’t want to just go wandering around looking for restrooms. Also there’s a good chance I could run into these same people or others throughout most of the hospital since their work is spread across multiple buildings.

    Am I in good standing to keep changing at the restroom closest to my office, or should I try to find somewhere else in the hospital to do this to hopefully minimize the number of people who will see me in my old, grungy clothes?

    1. YarnOwl*

      I work in insurance (a very conservative industry and office) and lots of people change their clothes, myself included. At the very least, I change my shoes from sneakers to work shoes, but during the summer when it’s hot and I don’t want to get my clothes all sweaty and gross, I change from shorts and a t-shirt into work clothes when I get there.

      My instinct is to say that you’re probably fine and that people being weird about it are just weird, but maybe if it’s really a part of your office’s culture you could find something comfortable but less casual to walk to work in? Like a jersey-knit dress with bike shorts underneath or a pair of jeans and a linen button up?

      1. Lily Rowan*

        Yeah, it feels like this is going to be really specific to your office culture and your own comfort level. At my old job, several of the big bosses ran to work and showered there, so they were often traipsing around in running clothes, so that led to a bunch of people doing similarly (going to the gym mid-day and changing in the office, etc.) But if it seems like a lot of people think what you’re doing is weird, and you care about that, I agree with other folks’ suggestions about outfits that are kind of mid-way between work and workout.

      2. Emi.*

        If you just want cooler clothes, not specifically workout clothes, do you have dressier options like linen or seersucker (sun)dresses?

    2. Anxa*

      I’ve walked for my commute, too, in the South so I get it.

      Can you find athletic wear that would work? I wonder if it will look less likes you’re underdressed for work and more obvious that you are not working. Is there not a gym or a rehab locker room you could use?

      1. Howdy Do*

        That’s what I was thinking. I’m no fan of the atheleasure trend but since it’s such a thing for people to wear workout clothes to do all kinds of non-workout things, I think low key workout capris and top would draw less attention (and they have that kind of moisture wicking stuff so it might actually be useful!)

      2. No Name Yet*

        +1

        I think if your walking-in clothes are clearly designed for working out (though also not risqué), people will be more likely to categorize your outfit correctly in their minds – not overly casual work, but Something Else.

      3. Parenthetically*

        This was my first thought as well. A pair of running shorts and a baseball cap would go a long way to communicating “I am coming in to change post commute and physical exertion” rather than “I am inexplicably casually dressed.”

      4. Mona Lisa*

        There is a gym, but it’s not convenient to my office (probably 10 minute walk in the opposite direction). I was going with the casual clothes because the shorts are longer and cover more than my athletic clothes, but maybe I should try athletic clothing instead! I’m less inclined to wear capris because (as I’m sure you know) it is HOT down here. (This northern Midwestern lady is struggling!)

        Thank you!

        1. Rachel in NYC*

          I don’t know if this is still the case but I prefer capris for working out outside and I’ve found that old navy has a nice light weight material- they’re my go summer work out pants (and that’s true for many of their tops as well).

          And as a former-Floridian, while NYC isn’t quite that bad, it can get pretty hot in the summer and sometimes I like to walk more then just the 2 miles from my subway stop so the 5 plus miles from my office in my work out clothes is a nice change so I totally get it.

    3. Making myself nuts...*

      We have folks who change for lunch time work outs: one regular gym attire, another in running attire and 2 in biking gear and return red faced and sweaty. I also wear grungy clothes when I have to work in long term storage areas. No one ever comments on it. Except for the bike shorts. Those guys catch hell.

    4. NoNameYet*

      Midwestern university employee but it gets hot and humid here and this becomes an issue for me as well since I enjoy taking the (not air-conditioned) bus/walking home whenever possible. Honestly I haven’t cracked this code yet, either. I’m thinking about buying an outfit specifically for this issue– because I currently change into workout clothes– which are all brightly colored and rather loud. The only logical bathroom to use has me walking through a part of the building where I risk passing a boss or other higher-up every time I do it. Luckily in the summers I am normally in before everyone else and out after everyone else…

      … That having been said. I’m considering a loose dress (work-appropriate length) made from quick-drying athletic material and some comfortable slip-ons– all in a neutral, nondescript color. At this point I’m willing to spend a little money to avoid workout clothing embarrassment! For the bathroom situation, that’s so tricky and I’m curious if anyone else has better advice. I feel like I have such bad luck with running into people outside my building that I just can’t win– I change in the closest bathroom at the end of the day and say a quick prayer, ha!

      1. Mona Lisa*

        You’ve gotten my situation down perfectly! I do sometimes wear my lighter-weight dresses home if I’ve worn one to work. However, I try to get a couple of uses out of my clothes before I wash them, and they are definitely not re-wearable after walking home! Your idea of a quick-dry hiking one is a good idea though. Maybe two of them so one can be drying (if necessary) while you take the other to work?

    5. over educated*

      I have to wear workout clothes for my bike commute. It’s long enough, and I get sweaty enough, that changing is not optional. I work for an organization that has a relaxed business casual dress code and an outdoorsy culture, so I just don’t worry about walking in wearing shorts and a t-shirt, turning on my computer because it takes a while to get started, and then heading down the hall to a restroom to change. Sometimes I even get waylaid into giving someone updates before I have time to change, which makes me feel a little self-conscious, but nobody’s mentioned it as a problem (and they know they could just wait five minutes if it were an issue).

      So I think this is somewhat dependent on the culture of your workplace, and on wearing workout clothes that aren’t too revealing or ripped up, but it’s not inherently inappropriate at all.

    6. Bess*

      I’ve had to do the same with walking and/or cycling and some combo of public transit. In hot/humid summers, I’d wear breathable sleeveless shirts with skirts on the way and put on cardigan and tights at work–I rarely brought a whole separate outfit because I had to get through a giant corporate building lobby, through a security swipe, up an escalator and elevator, so there wasn’t an easy place to change early enough. If I was biking in the rain or something, though, I would wear a completely different outfit and just deal with the awkwardness. I still do the same with blazers, jewelry, etc.–off for the commute, on at work.

      If you do need a whole outfit change, I like the earlier suggestion, in your situation, of maybe wearing exercise clothes on the way in. It’s kinda weird to me that people are being so weird about it, but that might signal to people that you’re not coming in in your Saturday clothes, or whatever it is that they’re getting stuck on.

      1. Mona Lisa*

        I do exactly what you do in milder months. (When the high is below 80, I dress in layers and take the extras off for my commute.) However, when it gets past 80, that’s when I start to sweat. I prefer to wear my work clothes multiple times between washings to prolong their lifespan, which means that I need to change into a separate outfit for the commute.

        I have no idea what the professors’ hang ups are though! They see me throughout the day so they should notice that it’s a completely separate outfit after 5 and that I’m not working in shorts and tanks. It’s also the older, male professors who comment on this so maybe there’s something to ignoring their comments about my clothing/body.

    7. Bagpuss*

      I wonder if it is the fact that clothes are old and grungy, rather than that they are casual, which people are picking up on? It’s all relative, but I think if I saw someone leaving the building in (say) shorts, halter top and trainers I’s just assume they were taking some exercise. If they were wearing clothes tat were definitely past their best and a bit grungy, I might raise an eyebrow. (It wouldn’t affect my view of them professionally, but it would be more noticeable to me than if they were simply wearing a more casual style. )

      I don;t think you need to worry about changing in the restroom most convenient to your office.

      1. Mona Lisa*

        I suppose grungy was a bit of hyperbole. The clothes are not particularly destroyed, but they’re older jean shorts and tank tops (5-10 years old) so they’re maybe slightly faded/out of style. I always wear sneakers to walk in after I ruined a pair of my favorite flats on my commute. (I had never literally worn holes in the bottoms of my shoes from walking too much before!)

  48. Clever Name*

    My company finally fired my underperforming coworker. I’m having mixed feelings. One one hand, it was definitely the right thing to do for the company, but I still feel bad when anyone loses their job. Additionally, this coworker was not well-liked, which in some ways made it more difficult to fire him. He managed to last just over a year, and I think a large part of it was because since he basically alienated the entire team from his first day, when people complained about his work product, the manager chalked it up to interpersonal issues. The prevailing thought is he lied on his resume about his experience, and part of me wonders if he acted like a pretentious jerk on purpose to hide the fact that he didn’t actually have the skills to do the job. People were so distracted by thinking he was a jerk that they didn’t realize he couldn’t do his job. So weird. Now we have to figure out what we’re going to do about his replacement.

    1. YarnOwl*

      This same kind of thing happened with the person managing my team a few months ago. She was pretty incompetent and treated us, and everyone she worked with, badly. I felt bad that she got fired because that’s not fun for anyone, but she almost got out department shut down because people disliked working with us so much because of her. We had just gotten so good at covering for her that nobody realized the huge problems she was causing!

      I hope things get better with your team and the replacement!

  49. Bucky Badger*

    About three weeks ago, I applied for a different position through an internal job posting at my company. About a week and a half ago, I received an automated decline email, stating that other candidates had more experience that more closely met the requirements of the position. While I was initially disappointed, I moved on.

    I got an email this morning from the internal recruiter saying that in review of my application ,I have many of the skills they are looking for in a candidate, and would like to do a phone interview.

    I don’t apply for jobs very often, so I was really confused. Is this normal?

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      Well, one of the two emails was a mistake haha. Best to just reply and ask for clarification.

    2. tiny temping teapot*

      I’ve had that experience when there’s an automated form to fill out – I was told I was rejected 10 minutes before I walked into my second interview. The manager said she would fix it – the job application website threw out everyone lacking specific experience for a specific length of time, but the manager had wanted that to be negotiable.

      It sounds like the internal recruiter saw beyond the simple black and white boxes and knows you would be good in the position. Good luck!

    3. KarenK*

      Also, one or more of the “more qualified” candidates may have decided not to continue in the process, or someone decided they needed more applicants, so they expanded the pool.

  50. straws*

    We just had to let go an employee due to poor performance. Despite a lot of intervention and discussions, she never came around to believing that her work was poor quality. The issues weren’t subjective, so this was a difficult struggle for all. This person was an old friend of mine (we had grown apart, but still frequented the same circles) that applied based on my recommendation. She passed the interviews with flying colors and was great initially. I know through various channels that she’s partially blaming me, since I was included on audits of her work. She hasn’t reached out in any way since being let go, which I’m not too bothered by. But, now I’m concerned about our mutual friends. I really can’t talk about the specifics of her termination with them, but I know she’s not above trash-talking me to our mutual friends. I already know that I’ll likely have to excuse myself from some of the events our friend-group puts on, simply because she’s much closer with the people who coordinate them (grade school friends vs my college friendship). Is there anything I can say or do proactively to save my relationships with these friends, or do I have to just hope they see through her?

    1. tw*

      I’m guessing they will see through her. If there were objective issues with her work that she refused to recognize, my guess is that this quality has shown up in other parts of her life as well. Her friends are probably aware she’s not the best employee. I wouldn’t bring it up with the mutual friends unless they do, especially since what she’s said is pure speculation on your part.

    2. Colette*

      If they bring it up, there are some things you can say. “Yeah, I wish it hadn’t come to that”, “I know it wasn’t an easy decision” for example.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Time will be on your side, although for the short term it might be difficult.

      You could get surprises some mutual friends might say, “I am surprised she lasted this long.”

      Either way, stay on target for not talking about it. Over time your professionalism will win out. Keep telling yourself, it will be this way for a while and then things will settle.

    4. straws*

      Thank you. These responses all make me feel better. There are so many ways in which this is frustrating, it’s important to hear/see this advice to stay grounded.

  51. over educated*

    Second comment, different question. If you’re moving to a new city because your spouse has a job there, would it be good or bad to say “I will be moving to City X with my family in Month Y”? On the one hand, it implies you have personal reasons for making a definite move and aren’t just saying it. On the other hand, for women, mentioning “family” in job applications might set off unconscious biases that could hurt an employer’s impression of you. Thoughts?

    1. Mona Lisa*

      I would probably say that I was moving and leave my family completely out of it. In a cover letter, a line like “I will be relocating to Westeros in June of 2017 and was excited to learn that Khaleesi & Co. has a Dragon Trainer position open.” Or something like that.

    2. Lady By The Lake*

      Just say, “I will be moving to City X in Month Y” no need to explain why.

    3. Tableau Wizard*

      I guess I don’t know what the RIGHT answer is, but I’ve definitely said that I’m relocating to City X because of my husbands job before and it hasn’t been a problem. Granted it was once, and the people I worked for were great, so I’m sure YMMV.

    4. Inspector Spacetime*

      I think it’d be fine to say you’re moving because of your spouse’s job. It’s very normal. If for some bizarre reason they don’t want to hire you because you’re a woman with a family, then you don’t want to work for them anyway.

  52. shep*

    I’m feeling a little lost in my position. I do MANY things, some of which I’m really good at, and some of which are so rarely done that they tend to fall by the wayside. I’ve got some serious avoidance issues with certain tasks, which is incredibly embarrassing, and I also feel like I’ve let some things slide so long that it’s going to seriously ding my performance when I bring them to attention. I realize this is something I need to get over, and fast. I’m used to being a high performer in ALL areas, not just a few. The thought of really getting everything in order (it was a LONG training/learning process) is just utterly daunting.

    I suppose my question is mainly this: Has anyone ever been in a similar situation? Any advice? My plan is to just put my head down and start getting things DONE, and take responsibility as graciously as possible for any shortcomings. One thing at a time, I guess.

    1. Abax*

      BTDT! First make a list of the tasks you need to get done, a timeline for getting caught up, and then start knocking them out. If/when these issues are noticed by your boss, you can say that while you were busy with A, B, and C, Task D fell off your radar; when you realized it, you made a list to prioritize getting caught up, that you will be caught up on * date, and that you’re going to calendar Task D on regular intervals so you won’t get behind again. It’s so much better when they see you’ve self-corrected and have a plan so you won’t get behind again. And don’t let yourself procrastinate on those tasks any more – remind yourself how much better you feel when the backlog isn’t hanging over your head!

    2. Anxa*

      What is the source of your avoidance on certain tasks? Are they unpleasant? Are the results more public? Are they had to undo?

      I ask because if there are underlying imposter syndrome or perfectionism issues, it’s probably worth tackling those head on concurrently.

    3. HR Bee*

      I have a whiteboard in my office divided into 12 squares, one for each month. In them I have written, in different colors:
      ~the things i will need to do every year (audits, annual projects)
      ~small, one-time projects that will take less than a month to accomplish, and
      ~small, one- or two-month steps in my Very Huge Projects.

      Laying this all out visually has allowed me to balance out my tasks and really see how much I am capable of taking on. I add items as I think of them, usually by eyeballing for a month that isn’t as full as the others, I erase projects that get cancelled, and I cross off projects as I finish them.

      This has been really good for me getting through those hated tasks that I constantly avoid, because I can safely put them off until later in the year, but once I get to that month, there’s no more excuses, I just have to do it. I try to make sure I’m spreading those tasks out.

      The best part is looking up at the entire top row of boxes and seeing a crossed-out list of everything I’ve accomplished in the first four months of the year. Really helps when I need to give a progress report to the bosses, as well, because it’s so large and colorful and visible.

    4. HR Bee*

      As for things that have gone unaddressed for too long, in my experience your best bet is to just not draw attention to the fact that you knew you should have been doing them and weren’t, if that makes sense. In my experience, just saying, “It’s been quite a while since XYZ was done, so I will be tackling that this quarter,” is fine; you don’t have to be like “I’ve totally let XYZ slide for two straight years, sorry about that Boss!” Depending on your job and your boss, they’ll probably take it at face value.

      You’re not a superperson, and lots of jobs have more responsibilities than there is time/energy to complete them. Some stuff is just not going to be your priority. It happens; don’t beat yourself up over it!

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I do nasty task first when I come into work. Get it done and over.
      If it’s a big project, I will commit x time per day/week until done. Here again, I do it first before I have time to dwell on it.
      Most of my procrastination comes from forgetting. I have done tasks A through P and totally forgot, no brain cells left to remember, to task W. Make a list of what you keep forgetting. I like to do a short task first to give me that instant gratification of having done something. Then do a longer task.

      The other week, my boss asked me to x. She asked to do x the previous week also. And.. uh… the week before that. I remembered it instantly when she said it but I never remembered it once we stopped talking about it. Here my solution was to do it right when she mentioned it the third time, since it was a relatively quick task. Done, over. In this case I was able to set things up so I would not have to do this particular thing again for a couple years. So once I get to these forgotten tasks sometimes I can buy time in the future by setting it up efficiently.

    6. Ramona Flowers*

      Not sure if you’re still reading but, first off, we all have times when we aren’t at 100%. If sounds like you’ve had a lot to get your head around. Avoidance of some tasks doesn’t mean you’re a poor performer – it can be a sign of stress or overwhelm, or just of having lots to learn at once and being a human being and not a robot.

      First off, you’re going to need a system that works for you. I can’t use a whiteboard or planner on the wall as I won’t think to look at it, for example. I put meetings and recurring tasks in Outlook and otherwise I keep a to-do list in Word with everything I need to do and then every day I write the tasks I’m doing that day on post-its. Figure out something you will look at and use.

      Have you seen the important/urgent matrix? Here, urgent means something that demands immediate attention. It doesn’t mean you have to do it. Give it a Google, as there are better explanations out there, but basically you divide things into four sections:

      Important/urgent: can be foreseen (meeting deadlines, meetings you have to attend) or unforeseen (putting out fires)
      Important/not urgent: longer-term planning, projects that aren’t due for a while
      Not important/urgent: someone else’s deadline that isn’t a priority for you, emails people want replies to
      Not important/not urgent: distractions and timewasters

      I learned about this on a training course at work and it made me realise I was prioritising everything by time and so the not important/urgent things were getting prioritised over important/not urgent and I was putting out other people’s fires that I actually wasn’t expected to prioritise.

      The other thing I think is really important here is to have a kind-hearted look at whether this is actually you dropping balls or if the balls were too many and too heavy. While you need to take responsibility for getting things sorted out, I do wonder if the training and learning process was flawed – did you have to start doing everything at once? Because it doesn’t make you not-a-high-performer if that has been difficult. It’s really better if you can take on new duties gradually. So please try to give yourself a break and be kind to yourself – it will help your stress levels.

  53. HappyLemon*

    It’s exam season! And I’m so stressed! I’m nearing completion of my master’s course and I’m freaking out! It’s been years since the last time I took an exam, and it’s all so overwhelming! I’ve been working full-time for the last few years, and it’s just such a different pace. Sure there’s pressure there too but it’s so different!

    On the one hand I wish I’d studied more during the year (though that seems a common theme with students of any age), but then the stuff I /did/ study earlier on (like, nine months ago) I can barely remember, so I’m not even sure how much that would’ve helped.

    Sometimes I wonder about the benefits of the exam-type assessments, especially courses that put a huge weighing (even 100%) on that result as your final grade. A course I did in the past had a series of (small) assignments over the semester and your best 8 efforts (out of 10) counted towards half your final grade, and the final exam the rest. That might sound like a lot of work but it was really conducive to learning and getting feedback. It certainly made a lot of extra work for the lecturers and tutors, but it lead to much better results.

    Now, some of my courses have only one final, and it just seems like it puts too much on those few hours. Most people feel pressure before an exam, and as much as we’re discouraged from rote learning you still need to /remember/ what you’ve learned, and stress can interfere with that, but it feels like that shouldn’t matter so much in the grand scheme of things (especially if it’s something that can be easily looked up, and that even professionals don’t actually need to /remember/ but rather refer to guidelines/formulas etc. for).

    Sorry about the rambling, it’s partly nerves and partly being mystified at the whole structure.

    1. fposte*

      American programs are much less inclined to the final = whole grade thing, and I’m with you; I prefer the grade to be based on performance throughout the semester (let alone the whole year, which is a lot riding on the one exam).

    2. Not So NewReader*

      When I went back to school, I found that getting rest was just as important. I insisted on a bedtime of 11 pm and stuck to it. What happened next was amazing. My grades went up. I was not suddenly smarter and I did not learn the material any better. What happened was because of feeling rested I got MUCH better at guessing or deductively figuring out the answer. My thinking was much clearer. And yes, I could remember stuff from months ago, even though I had failed to review it when prepping for my final.

  54. Jen RO*

    Thank you to everyone who replied last week to my question about my underperforming employees!

    One of them (the one who was trying, but wasn’t hitting all the targets) resigned this week. I am not too sorry to see him go.
    The other one (the one who was making progress, but too slow) is interviewing – I found this out because a former coworker is hiring at her new company. I couldn’t in good faith give a good reference, but I am optimistic that this means my employee is searching in other places as well and she might be out of my hair soon!

    While in the short term the situation will not be great in terms of workload, I hope that the future hires will be at least as good as my top performers.

    And speaking of my top performers, I discussed with one of them as part of her performance review and my opinion of her went up even more – she is very self-aware, very willing to improve and learn… and best of all, she is happy here. I am giving her a raise soon and, while it won’t bring her to the market level, I hope she will appreciate it. (In the meantime, my boss and his boss are working on realigning the salaries… )

  55. Myrin*

    So I probably didn’t get the job I interviewed for six weeks ago.

    I say “probably” because I haven’t heard back from them yet. However, they said after the intervie that they’d let me know about their decision in three weeks. Since it’s already been six by now, I was resigend to it not having worked out anyway but there are some complicated circumstances around roles like this which wouldn’t make it super weird to take that long anyway despite their initial words. I have to say, the main reason I still held out hope was because the interviewer/person who would hire me was very responsive up to the interview, double-checked if I was okay with the drive I had to take there, answered very fast, he even told me about which train to take best once I was near their city. So I definitely got the feeling that this is someone who would write out an actual rejection email and not just let me float around in the winds of uncertainty.

    Well, I talked to my doctoral advisor yesterday, who has been in the field for more than 20 years and knows its norms, and he said that this long silence likely means I didn’t get it. He conceded that because of the aforementioned circumstances, it happens kinda regularly that this stuff gets much more drawn-out than initially anticipated but generally, he’d say that it didn’t work out. He says that if I haven’t heard of them in two weeks at the latest, then I can forget about it for certain.

    I’m not terribly sad about it, I have to say. I am bummed out a little since I actually got a good feeling during the interview and mostly because I would finally love some income stability thankyouverymuch but I’m actually much more seeing the positive sides: Since the interview, I’ve been thinking about it a lot, the questions they asked and the answers I gave, and I’ve come up with quite some stuff I could have anticipated or answered in a different way and I’m actually feeling much more confident now as a result of that! I also would’ve had to move to spend half my time in another part of the country and while I’m certain I wouldn’t have hated it, I’d actually prefer to stay here and work close to my home. So I’m thinking that if it didn’t work out – which is likely – I actually learned a lot from this and something that is a better fit will come along some time!

    1. JokersandRogues*

      I think that’s really the best attitude to have. Use it to improve or feel more confident and move on.

  56. TSG*

    I’m sorry to be “that guy” because I know it’s been discussed on this site before but I guess I just need more guidance/want confirmation to be sure I absolutely handle this right, re: talking to boss about work suffering because of personal problems –

    My LTR is realllly on the rocks right now. I’m at that “I know we’re going to/need to break up but there’s still enough of me kind of hoping I’m wrong and it’s going to work out so I’m not actually doing anything to finalize it yet” point. I’m very in love with my partner and we’ve been together for quite a few years, but we want different things for our futures and we’ve realized we can no longer ignore that, etc etc. Point is that I’m facing the end of an otherwise very good, fulfilling relationship and it’s making this feel especially painful right now.

    I’m really struggling at work as a result. I feel really devastated and can’t focus on anything. I’m in a new role that I really love and am good at, and I’m getting by, but I know this is a great opportunity for me to be going really above and beyond and make a case for a better title/salary than they initially wanted to do with the new position, but every single thing I do from getting dressed to writing reports to eating feels like a completely exhausting task right now, so I keep squeaking by with the bare minimum.

    I have an unrelated one-on-one meeting with my boss later today and I’m trying to figure out what/how to say anything to him. I know I’m not doing “bad” but I could definitely be doing better and I kind of want to address it –
    he knows me as a great worker with a lot of talent and drive and I don’t want him to think I’m not putting my all into this new role or that it isn’t a good match for my energy and skills. I think I want to say “hey, I know I’m doing what I’m supposed to do but I also know I could be doing more and I really want to, things are just rough right now for personal reasons” sort of message.

    Part of me doesn’t want to mention the relationship possibly ending because hey maybe it won’t! And then it’ll be fine and I don’t want it to be this weird thing where my boss knows my relationship *almost* ended. Plus I feel like saying “I may break up with my partner :/ ” doesn’t sound as real and serious as “i broke up with my partner” – but I’m definitely already emotionally mourning it as a break up because I know it’s coming.

    So I guess I just stick with “sorry, personal problems, I feel weird” but idk – I don’t want to be too vague and have it sound like a cop out for not pushing myself more. The timing just sucks with me being 1/5 months into this role and these problems in my personal life really sinking in 3 weeks ago and coming to a head right now.

    Boss and I have a great working relationship and often talk about our personal lives (in a very work-healthy way, just him saying nice things bout his wife and asking how my partner is, etc). I know he’d understand the severity of me saying my partner and I aren’t doing well, but it still feels weird to say or bring up in this way. And while I do believe he’d appreciate this for a real and painful thing and wouldn’t start to doubt my judgment or work ethic, I’m also mad at myself for not being able to separate this from my work more and just keep doing what I do. So I can’t imagine it not tainting his view of me at least somewhat. But I also think I’m going to do myself a disservice if I say nothing and let him just think this is me giving it my all. There’ve been no complaints about my work so I don’t see him questioning me and me needing to explain myself in a prompted way. I just need a week or two to be in a slump and be a little lazy and rest and process my life and then I know I’ll be back to giving 110%.

    I’m rambling so much, my apologies. I can’t get any of this organized or clear in my head. I hope I’m making sense haha.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      I’d definitely tell him that you’re aware you’re struggling and are working on it, but it’s okay to be vague about the reason why. I’d go with “personal reasons” and leave it at that. If your boss knows you to be a good worker, then he won’t jump to the conclusion that you’re lying or slacking off.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        I think the “working on it” part is important to include — I’m going through some stuff, but anticipate coming out the other side in a few weeks. I mean, even if you don’t know if it’s true or not, it sounds proactive and not like you’ve just randomly become a worse employee.

        Good luck to you.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      If you feel the need to say something, I would be suuuuper generic. “I’m sorry if I haven’t been performing as well lately, life has been a bit bumpy” or something like that. I wouldn’t say anything that might sound like it could double as a country song.

    3. JulieBulie*

      I think you could just say “relationship stuff,” which will speak volumes about your inner turmoil without getting into specifics of your actual relationship status. If you say something more vague, like “personal problems,” your boss could end up worrying that you’re fighting cancer, being pursued by gangsters, or who knows what.

    4. Hrovitnir*

      Oh hey, my sympathies for your position. I think you can judge it based on your relationship (with your boss) and how the conversation is going, but I would plan to go in there with the goal being “I know I’m not performing highly and I know I can do better/I’m sorry and working on it/I’m having some personal issues that are really affecting me at the moment.”

      I recently organised a meeting with my supervisor because I know I have been terribly under performing in the project I’m doing, because of mental health issues and personal ones. I turned over and over how to present it but felt like I needed to say “this is where we stand, I wish I could have done better, what shall we do with the remaining time”. However I am lucky, because I am a student and science is notoriously good at tripping you up so I pretty much got reassured that I’ve done plenty and totally bypassed anything personal. I just happen to know that I’m capable of so much more!

      I wish you luck with your job and however things work out with your relationship.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Definitely say something. If you want to say very little, that is fine, you can expand on it later if need be. Everyone needs to vent/release stuff. We can’t carry all of it inside.

      When my mother died, I said nothing at work. I mean nothing. It was a disaster. My insides felt like a pressure cooker ready to explode. I did horrible on the job and finally I just stopped caring.

      Ten years later, older and wiser, I am faced with my father’s final illness. I went in and told the boss. “My dad is really sick. I don’t think he will make it. I am the only family member in the area. Everything falls to me. So if I am off/weird it is because everything falls to me.”

      It was a totally different experience. While my brains did not fall out, like they did with the first parent, this time my health went in the latrine because I could not do the 20-22 hour days.
      I did not lose the job because the lines of communication were open. Granted not every conversation went well, but we kept talking. And this job I kept, unlike the previous story.

      Say something. Say things are a little rocky at the moment. Give some clue that is all is not peachy. People can help if they have some idea of what is going on. Let people help here and there. It’s too mind bending to have your life falling apart and go to work pretending nothing is wrong. Preserve yourself and say something.

  57. BigSigh*

    Just a funny work story to share. Funny shocking, not really funny haha.

    A few of my coworkers still live with their parents. It’s whatever, hello economy. They’re all in their 20s. One woman gets teased about it because she also acts fairly young. Treats her parents horribly, from what she admits to.

    Anyway, her mom makes her lunch every day. If I was in my late 20s and my mom was still willing, I can’t say I’d turn that down either. A couple coworkers would not let it go–men in their 30s-40s. Started joking that her mom should make them lunch too. AND SHE DID. My cowoker brought in lunch, made by her mother, for all three of them today.

    1. Biff*

      Sounds like Mom has a good sense of humor! Some folks have a pretty weird relationship with their parents and it looks antagonistic but everyone is happy. This sounds like that.

    3. TSG*

      My grandmother (in her 90s) recently moved in with my mom because it’s harder for her to live alone now. But she still has a very independent and firey spirit so she’s determined to pitch in and do things around the house, including making my mom’s lunch every day. She won’t take no for answer. And my mom wants her to feel good about being helpful, so she just rolls with it. So my 55 y/o mother, VP of her company, comes into work every day with a lunch box packed by her mom. Some of her friends tease her like “ohhh, what did mommy pack for you today?” And my mom just cheerfully tells them what she has for lunch.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I couldn’t live with my mother, but if I did, I probably wouldn’t give her any flack if she wanted to pack my lunch for me. Because my mum is a very good cook. :)

    4. shep*

      I just recently moved out of my parents’ house, and was living with them out of economic necessity. It’s not something I’d advertised at all, and as I got older, was a point of mild embarrassment for me. The whole situation with the coworker, down to her mother making her lunch, is just mind-boggling.

    5. AwkwardKaterpillar*

      I think that’s funny (haha funny) it seems like joking or teasing to me.

      Also – I would happily take a lunch anyone wanted to make for me.

    6. BigSigh*

      Ok, and I have now ended up with half a sandwich, as one of the guys wanted to go out for lunch. My coworkers’ mother buys nice deli meat…. It’s a good sandwich.

    7. Idea*

      My youngest is still in college and I sent food back to school with her for 2 of the teachers in her program. It was kind of a joke because she was feeding them all fall semester from snack type food she would get with her meal plan. She has a lot of extra meal swipes because she plays soccer and misses dinner a lot.

    9. Salty*

      I am 42 and live in the same town as my (retired) parents. My mom bakes for my co-workers a few times a year. She likes to bake, they like to eat, it all works out.

  58. Biff*

    I need some advice about following my gut feeling.

    I’m interviewing with a company that is dangling a VERY compelling compensation package for a role that would be a huge step up and potentially give me a ton of creative freedom. But the more I talk to them, the more my gut says “run like hell itself is after you.” I’ve tried to peg down why that might be, since no one has been rude (in fact, quite the opposite, they’ve been really complimentary and flattering.)

    First red flag: Each interview I’ve had with them has been weirdly short (no longer than 25 minutes) and has included more and more people each time. I expected a one-on-one with my manager.

    Second red flag: Their process, as they’ve described it to me, is very strange. There a ton of people involved with the process (let’s say the process is choosing and testing new chocolate for teapots) who really don’t have a stake in the process (the marketing photographer, the accounts recievable clerk and the warehouse manager all have a say, essentially.) Potentially related to this, they used a ton of unnecessary jargon and buzzwords in the interview, to the point that I had to ask them what stuff was because they had acronyms for in-house things that I couldn’t have possible come up with on my own.

    Third red flag: I know Glassdoor has to be taken with a grain of salt, but once I weeded out all the reviews that were for drastically different positions than the one I’m interviewing for, they have 70% negative reviews.

    Fourth red flag: They are moving really fast.

    Frankly, I’m worried that the pay is meant to razzle-dazzle me, and the short interviews, high-speed and flattery were meant to distract me from some very real problems in their organization. However, I also understand that there could be perfectly innocuous reasons for all these flags.

    1. Susan*

      RUN RUN RUN. Mostly the second red flag for me. Too many cooks may be a phrase, but it’s true. It feels like there might be too much decision by consensus, which can be very dragging.

    2. Natalie*

      Hey, it’s not a court of law. They don’t need to be proven dysfunctional beyond a shadow of a doubt for you to go with your concerned feeling.

      If they had innocuous reasons for these issues, ideally they would mention them proactively to you instead of pretending that this bananas process is totally normal.

      GTFO.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Frankly, I’m worried that the pay is meant to razzle-dazzle me, and the short interviews, high-speed and flattery were meant to distract me from some very real problems in their organization.

      I think you’ve answered your own question. Trust your gut here. Run like the wind!

    4. LKW*

      There was an Ask the Reader about going with your gut – I don’t think anyone calculated stats but most were pretty pleased they listened. I’d say your gut is telling you things are not quite right and that Glassdoor is telling you to listen to your gut.

    5. Biff*

      SAME DAY UPDATE:

      I called up my recruiter and told them to count me out for this one.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Wise move. I was concerned about the lack of info here and their push to hire you.

  59. Batshua*

    So y’all remember how I had a horrible performance evaluation.

    Yesterday my boss spoke to me on the phone for FORTY MINUTES. Apparently she thinks I’m perfect for a couple of special projects because I’m so detail oriented?! I mean, I am, but what happened to me sucking at everything forever? She said she knew she’d been hard on me, but it’s because she thinks I can do it?

    Whatever, a special project or two might really improve my internal resume and it would relieve a LOT of boredom. There’s so much time when there isn’t work, and then there’s time when we’re swamped. I wish our workload was more evenly balanced, but this might help fill in the gaps.

    1. Katie the Fed*

      I don’t remember the details of your bad performance evaluation, but it’s great that your boss recognizes your strengths in addition to your weaknesses. I have people like this – really bad at one thing, but REALLY good at another.

      1. Batshua*

        There weren’t any details. It was all vague, with no actionable feedback or measurable goals. It just “you’re doing badly, you need help, I don’t know how to help you, tell me how to help you” … which given that while I’m not perfect, I do a pretty dang good job of both being friendly and helpful as well as getting the paperwork side of things done, I was lost.

        1. LQ*

          It might be your boss isn’t great at articulating it. I have a coworker who is super detail oriented and focused on things that I miss, but honestly? She kind of sucks at catching on to the unwritten things our boss’s boss says. And most of the stuff he says is both fast and the important stuff is unspoken. He would be horrible at telling her what she isn’t getting or doing right. And he’s say something very similar to that. But he thinks this coworker is great because of the detail oriented and it was totally a matter of finding a spot where it worked well. So good at identifying positives, but bad at explaining negatives. Could your boss be better? YES! But I think grab the side projects and run with them. Good luck.

        2. Close Bracket*

          That was a poorly done review. Is it possible to schedule a one-on-one with her and say you would like to address the issues on your review and ask for specific times which made her feel you were doing poorly? If she can’t come up with anything, which is what I anticipate, ask her to talk to you when things come up in the future so they can be addressed immediately. You will then have to stay on top of it yourself. If you are not already having regular one-on-ones, start having them every week or every other week so you can ask how you are doing and whether there is anything to address. If scheduled meetings don’t make sense, you can try drop ins.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      That is true, I have pushed people when I knew they could do it. Part of being a boss is accurately estimating what your people can take on and learn.

      That said, her review was horrible. Nothing actionable? Tell her you need to have action items. You can’t develop what she said into actions. I doubt many people could.

  60. Tableau Wizard*

    Any OneNote users out there? I have a Surface Pro at my new job at I’m thinking about making OneNote my go-to note taking/list making tool. Any tips/tricks for a total newbie who is usually technically proficient?

    1. Anonymous Poster*

      I love it. You can use the onenote link in your meetings and take notes using it like a pen and paper. It doesn’t register if you’re resting your hand on the surface while writing, and its writing recognition is decent (I’d proof what it thinks you wrote though, if you convert to text). The search function is really nice too, because sometimes I can’t remember what meeting something was said in.

      I’d suggest using the syncing on your onedrive function in case the pro croaks on you. Mine died after 3 years, which isn’t bad but was very annoying.

      Personally I wouldn’t use it as a list making tool, because I need my to-do list right in front of me or else I’ll forget to look at it. It doesn’t have a notification function or anything.

      Tips:
      – Sort your notebooks. Like, standing meetings should probably be on their own.
      – Be careful about sharing access via the onedrive via a link. Some businesses are good about setting up a local environment that anyone can access, which is ideal. Others aren’t, so if you’d allow others access they could poke around in your onedrive.
      – The battery life is great, so you can probably last through a 2-3 hour meeting taking notes no problem.
      – Force yourself for a week or two to use it, and eventually you won’t be able to convert back.

      I used mine primarily for school note taking and meeting minutes. It’s been a great help. You can also email the meeting minutes out pretty easily at the top, which is also a great way to track actions.

    2. Alice*

      See if you like the mobile app too.
      Get good at including words or phrases that you might search by in the title of the note.
      I used to use the Outlook — Onenote integration features but gave up on it.
      You can add files to notes — very handy
      Surprising flaw: in the mobile app you can take a picture and add it to a note without leaving OneNote, but not in the desktop version (even if your laptop has a built-in camera).

  61. Not Another Username*

    My boss does not delegate well.

    It creates a bottleneck as there is certain information I need from him to do my job.

    I think he’s also overwhelmed with work etc.

    Is there a way to inspire him to delegate without just constantly bombarding him with requests or reminders?

    1. HR Bee*

      Do you have a close enough relationship to speak frankly (but kindly) about it?

      If not, is there a way you could simplify one or more of his tasks by offering to skip unnecessary steps or handle the red tape? For example, I was having trouble getting my boss to approve PTO requests for all his direct reports, so I offered to approve them all as a matter of course and send him head’s-up emails, which he would only need to respond to if there was an issue with that report taking that PTO. He loved the idea and it’s sped up the workflow considerably. Having no clue what your workflow is like, is there any process where you could do something similar?

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Go inch by inch? “If you give me information A, then I can do tasks B, C and D.”

      There are times where I have told my boss, “That is my job, let me do it, so you are freed up to do Boss-type-work.” She grins.

      There are times where I do something fast because I am so used to it. “Boss, I can get that done in 5-7 minutes for you, if you let me have it.”

      It may take months of this but you can wear them down. “Oh boss, you gave me that last week and I did it up for you. I can do that again this week, also!”

  62. caledonia*

    I am 1000 words (+ formatting/tidying up etc) away from my last assignment for my BA Hons degree! It’s been 7 long years (part time distance learning)

  63. Triangle Pose*

    I would wait for a bit and see how the environment is.

    I want to note something for you – your comment indicates to me that you feel you were let go even though your manager said in your review that you’re great at absolutely everything your job entails and that the only reason you were let go without ceremony is because a few coworkers didn’t like your jokes. But part of you job does entail being pleasant and interacting with coworkers, bosses, everyone else in the building in a professional, appropriate and polite way. Part of that is reacting appropriately to social and professional cues and generally behaving in a way that aligns with professional norms. You might find it helpful to consider whether the jokes were just an example of behavior they wanted changed and not the sole reason they let you go (also may look back at this and consider if your jokes were inappropriate for the moment). I find that many people (Autism spectrum or not!) try to draw this bright line circle around their listed job responsibilities/tasks/deliverables and then put everything else outside that circle and decide they don’t have to care about it or throw their hands up and call it “office politics” without recognizing that this decision it to their own detriment. I’m not saying you’re definitely doing this but I’m getting a hint of it from your comment I find in general that outlook on the working world to be very unhelpful if your goal is to advance and be successful in a professional environment.

    I’m sorry your manager assumed all bad social interactions involving you were your faul. I’m not sure why it’s a problem that she’s acknowledging it as a condition? Is that terminology offensive to you or was she sharing it with others? I guess I’m having a hard with your position here – you want her to acknowledge that you’re ont he autism spectrum but just not call it a condition?

    As far as your coworkers, yes, if you tell them you find that sort of correction helpful, they are going to keep doing it when they notice you doing something they perceive as inappropriate or not responsive to social cues. If you find it demoralizing sometimes and helpful other times, you’ll have to properly tell them that. “Hey, I really appreciated you saying X last time but right now I’m having a hard time with the corrections now and I think I can handle it myself, can you step it back?” They aren’t going to know it’s no longer helpful if you don’t tell them.

  64. Lolly*

    Any suggestions for office snacks between lunch and dinner, suitable for a completely silent environment that has no fridge?

    So basically, anything that doesn’t spoil, doesn’t crunch, doesn’t crinkle to open/access and doesn’t smell. So far I’ve got…nuts, which are great, but variety would be good.

      1. TCO*

        I think bananas can have a distinct smell! As long as they’re not crazy overripe and the peel is disposed of elsewhere (not in the trash can near anyone’s desk) they’re probably fine.

        What about hummus and pita bread? Wild Garden brand has single-serve hummus packets that don’t require refrigeration (I buy them in bulk on Amazon to keep at work, use while traveling, etc).

    4. Effie*

      Raisins/dried fruit? Pudding and applesauce snack cups that my mom always refrigerated and then I found out as an adult don’t need to be, and that’s why the grocery store doesn’t keep them in the refrigerated aisle? Those little individual cocktail fruit cups in plastic? Oh and if you can open them skillfully without juice squirting everywhere, Asian markets have those little individual jellies.

    5. Lily Rowan*

      I’m a huge fan of Kind bars (and similar), but not sure if you’d think they would be loud?

    6. Sadsack*

      Raisins! I am into raisins lately. They are good when I am craving something sweet. They’re good in their own and they pair well with nuts.

    7. Kowalski! Options!*

      Before I started losing weight, I’d bring a cup-sized Tupperware of cheese cubes and sliced cooked sausage with me to snack on in the afternoons. It’s high in fat, admittedly, but it kept me going until dinner and didn’t make too much noise or get too scent-y.

    8. Emilia Bedelia*

      -Chewy granola/protein bars (if the packaging is noisy, you could put it in a plastic bag or plastic wrap instead)
      -Sandwiches (PB+J, or Nutella and fruit, or veggie, or whatever kind of spread you’re willing to eat unrefrigerated)
      -Pears, peaches, plums, apricots, perhaps clementines
      -Cherry tomatoes, cucumbers/pickles (they are a little crunchy, I suppose, so ymmv)
      -Protein drinks/meal replacement shakes, if you’re willing to drink it lukewarm.

    9. Andraste*

      I do a graze subscription to keep things different. Seems like it would work in that situation and give you a little variety without having to think about it.

      1. HR Bee*

        I second the Graze box idea. The packages are not super loud to open, and you get ten of them every two weeks. There’s some really, really tasty stuff in there. http://www.graze.com

  65. No Name This Time*

    So I’m struggling with whether I am being unreasonable here. I work for a medium-sized nonprofit and we recently posted a job for a director level position. I have a good friend and neighbor who does a similar job for a for-profit company, and as far as I can tell, is experienced, ambitious, and competent. I recommended that she apply and passed on my recommendation to my boss, who is on the hiring committee. I always knew it was a possibility they wouldn’t hire her because there would be someone else qualified who had nonprofit communications experience, and I was fine with that. Instead, they’ve decided not to hire any of their finalist candidates (of which she was one) and repost the position. I’m feeling a little baffled, because I’m not sure what they think they will get in this next round, and a little resentful on my friend’s behalf because this seems much worse to me than losing to someone who is a better fit. There are good reasons to do this and bad reasons, and given our directors’ management skills, I suspect the decision was made for bad reasons. Is there any way I can ask what happened to try to see if there were in fact good reasons and I can feel less resentful? Or do I just need to drop it because this is a thing that happens and I should assume good faith?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      I’d let it drop. What “bad reasons” are you suspecting?

      Your friend might have great experience but be a terrible interviewer, or something else. You really don’t know. And you’re not an impartial observer either.

    2. SeptemberGrrl*

      This happens a lot, there really isn’t a difference between losing to another candidate and having the company decide that they haven’t gotten the right candidate yet and they are willing to wait, rather than hire the best of the current bunch.

  66. Cath in Canada*

    I take minutes in a lot of very fast-paced and technical meetings. This week I had two such meetings, and I had one colleague try to start a side conversation with me while I was frantically scribbling; another ask to borrow a spare pen (which was in my bag under the table); and someone else ask if I could forward them a copy of the slides right then and there. The first guy is a peer so I just tapped my ear and nodded towards the people having the main conversation to say “shush, I need to listen to them”, but the other two were very senior so I had to try to multitask while staying on top of the minutes situation. I just about pulled it off, but I think I gave the slides guy a bit of a dirty look.

    Don’t interrupt the minutes taker, people! Sheesh

    1. Hrovitnir*

      Oh man, that is so annoying, my sympathies. Also internet high fives for managing it.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Is there someone else in the meeting who can be in charge of answering these people?

  67. Variations on a theme*

    I’m being flown out to an in-person interview at a Fortune 100 company next Friday and I am incredibly nervous.

    This job would be amazing for me: it’s a big promotion, a big raise, a chance to add a very big company name to my resume, and the work itself is unique and exciting and so completely what I want to be doing. The only real downside is that I’d have to relocate for it — but that’s not all bad because the area I’m leaving is insane (SF Bay Area) and the area I’d be moving to is also near my family.

    The interview process has been bizarrely rigid and very drawn-out (first touch was April 24) and I’m kind of hoping to just get this thing done with so I can use my mental energy on something else. I’ve already shifted my brain space to treating this as a just for fun kind of thing, because my hopes would be too high otherwise, but it’s hard to keep that up for a month!

    Not really asking for advice so much as good vibes. :)

    2. Lady By The Lake*

      I’m sending you good vibes but also some unsolicited advice. For a Fortune 100 company, particularly a position that you would have to relocate for, a month would not be a “very drawn out” process — that would be a rocket ship. Last time I went to such a company the hiring process took from August until January; even though I was the only candidate. Be patient with the process.

      1. Variations on a theme*

        That’s fair – thanks for the realignment.

        I’m much more used to the whirlwind of still-big-but-not-THAT-big companies in the Bay Area: send your resume in/reply to the recruiter, set up a phone screen for the next day, phone interview with the hiring manager in the same week, in person by the following week, and offer or no thanks by the end of that week.

        I actually have gone through that cycle with 4 other companies already. I’m glad none of them got so far as an offer I strongly considered because I would have LONG passed the need to give them an answer!

  68. Jana*

    I’m excited to finally (!!!) be getting some interviews, but now I’m worried about references. I have a knack for picking tumultuous workplaces. I feel at a loss because two past jobs are problems (one supervisor embezzled money and alienated everyone, and another was known for routinely screaming at employees and threatening to fire everyone). Entire staffs and departments quit due to these management problems. Unfortunately I don’t have ties to former coworkers at either of those jobs. And my only real colleague at a more recent past position quit out of nowhere. So, right now I have two references for sure (one supervisory, one colleague) from current job and a past job, respectively. Another former supervisor would be a reference, but that job was over 10 years ago and isn’t on my resume. Is two references ever sufficient? Has anyone had tricky reference situations? How did you handle it?

  69. Amber Rose*

    Alison, this isn’t entirely work related and I don’t know if you’ll see this, but I found out why my phone wasn’t working on AAM.

    It’s the antivirus program I had installed on it. Diagnostics say it was crashing around 72 times per day(!). Now that it’s gone, it’s like I have a new phone, and I can freely post again.

    So it’s not the site, my bad.

  70. Katie the Fed*

    I told my two immediate bosses this morning that I’m pregnant. I was going to wait until the second trimester, but I’ve been kind of a hot mess with how sick I’ve been feeling, and I didn’t want them to start asking a lot of questions with me missing work for appointments or coming in to work late because the smell of coffee brewing made me violently ill this morning.

    They both were so happy for me and totally understanding, so that’s nice. I’ll start working with them to figure out coverage for my job when I’m out next year.

    7. Master Bean Counter*

      Congrats! We had an admin who had to out herself after she turned green and ran down the hall one morning. We were a bit worried she might be contagious before she announced her news.

      1. Katie the Fed*

        I actually did that this afternoon. Luckily it was just a couple of clueless men who I pushed through and they barely noticed :)

    8. Episkey*

      I told my boss at 8 weeks for similar reasons. Some mornings were really a struggle getting in.

  71. Bullwinkle*

    I’ve been at my job for about a year. I switched to a new manager a couple months ago, and my work completely changed, so I’ve been trying to get up to speed and learn my new tasks. My new manager is a bit difficult. On the whole I don’t think he’s a bad guy and he is good at the technical aspects of his job, but not so great at managing. He’s also very stressed right now because of his workload, and one of his reports is out on family leave.

    He’s not a great communicator- for example, I found out through the grapevine that he was annoyed that I wasn’t checking in with him enough so I’ve been stepping that up, but he’s never brought it up with me directly. I’ve also made some mistakes that would have been avoidable had I had more information, but he’s also snapped at me a couple times when I’ve tried to ask questions. It’s been very frustrating trying to find the balance. I’m not at a point that I want to try to find a new job (for a number of reasons), and I’m learning a lot, but I tend to take things personally, and I hate making avoidable mistakes (some perfectionist tendencies). Any advice for sticking it out with a difficult manager and not letting the frustration eat away at me?

    1. Jules the First*

      If you’re not already doing regular (ie, weekly) one on ones, you need to ask him if you can start – frame it as an opportunity to collect all your questions in one place to maximise efficiency. You could also try asking if he has a preferred way/time for you to communicate – does he like one daily email with all your updates? one update per email? one weekly? something in person or by phone instead of email?

      1. Bullwinkle*

        Yeah, I’ve tried to pin him down, no luck so far. It’s not really in the culture of the company to have weekly meetings like that. My current strategy is to write down all my questions as I go, and then try to catch him at a good time, which has been moderately successful. As someone who has generally done well and gotten along with managers at previous jobs, I guess I’m just kind of thin skinned, and it’s been taking a toll on me.

        2. Kama'aina Kitty*

          How about a written weekly status report that you email? That way he could read it at his leisure (or not) and you have at least tried to keep him in the loop.

    2. Stelmselms*

      Are you me? I hope I say this in a way that makes sense – things likely feel “off” and there aren’t necessarily huge, big red flags waving in the wind telling you to run! Get another job now! But there are definitely signs that it isn’t a fit and you can’t always put your finger on them and often think “it must be me”. But leaving right now isn’t an option either. So you just keep trying to do your best.

      Can you take on a project in support of the department, but independent of your boss? That might give you a chance to work with other folks. Can you volunteer for any committees or events in your office to break up your work tasks? Just know, when you do make mistakes, make sure to take stock to see if it’s really all on you, or like you said, you didn’t have the right information. That one helps me a lot. Can you email him the questions for information you need with a deadline? And then a reminder one when he doesn’t respond the first time?

      Good luck!

  72. Alice*

    I got a thank you note from a client today and it was really lovely to hear how much she values my work. So I resolved to pass it on and write thank yous for some colleagues and friends. Maybe you have someone who would be really pleased to get a note from you, too!

    1. Variations on a theme*

      Absolutely! I am so happy you got something like that.

      I work in marketing and I do a lot of community relations. I listen to a great deal of complaints (some constructive, some simply vitriolic) and the compliments are so, so few and far between. It is extremely tiring to handle all the hatred and every single, solitary note of appreciation or thanks shines like a beacon in the midst of all the muck.

      It’s very easy to forget that a kind word can have a huge impact. Be proactive: say thank you and mean it! Show appreciation when you feel moved to do so! I can’t imagine anyone who is going to be annoyed that you bothered to thank them, so the worst is that the person isn’t able to tell you how much they appreciate hearing something nice.

  73. Master Bean Counter*

    So here’s an interesting situation that I’d like to get comments/feedback on.

    My office is set up where I have three monitors, two are visible from the doorway one is not. I use the one that isn’t as my primary monitor, mostly because it’s the only one when I’m looking at it that doesn’t have my back to the door. I hate having my back to the door. I startle easy.
    My boss commented that I spend a lot of time concentrating on the monitor that can’t be seen. He also knows that some people are addicted to social media. But he didn’t out right accuse me of playing on facebook all day.
    I explained that I use that monitor for most of my work as it lets e sit in such a fashion that my back isn’t to the door. I then asked him if there was work he needed me to do that wasn’t getting done, or if there were other concerns about my work. He said no.
    In fact I’ve stepped up lately and reworked processes in the office that were out dated, and have made great strides to make the office more efficient. For which he has given me praise. It seems like every time I actually start to make progress around the office and get some notice and respect for my work he finds some non-issue to blow up and make into a big deal.
    I realize in the realm of crazy bosses he’s a fart in a hurricane. But his focus on appearances rather than results is driving me slowly up a wall.
    I also know he is not happy in his job and I’ve over heard two different conversations with recruiters. I also think he doesn’t like the new CEO either. I get along with the CEO wonderfully. So if I can outlast him here, my future looks good. But in the mean time I’m keeping my eyes open for a new job. But the opportunities in my market are few and far between. So how do I cope while I’m waiting for something to shake out? I mean other than the internal eye rolling and still knocking my work out of the park?

    1. Rebecca*

      Oh I feel your pain. My ex manager wouldn’t let me arrange my desk so I faced the door of my office, so I had my back to the door. I also startle easily. I tried to explain that to her, and asked if I could move my desk; answer was no. Then she used that knowledge to purposely startle me! I had to concentrate to do my work, there were many chatty Cathy’s in our office, and I’d put in earbuds or have the radio on, trying to work, and she’d walk right up behind me and just start bellowing about something. I’d jump, and she’d actually snicker at me. What an ass. I’m so glad she’s my ex manager and she’s still unemployed over 5 months after she was asked to leave.

      Anyway – could you put up a Word Doc and Excel Spreadsheet, with some other windows, or whatever you normally work on, showing on the monitors your boss sees, and then work on the 3rd one? It sounds like he’s just nitpicking to be a pain.

      1. Master Bean Counter*

        Oh, there is files and programs open on the other monitors, that I do use. And I do go between them when I have stuff that requires having 10 things open at once. I just favor the main monitor for my actual work and emails. The things that require concentration.

    2. Notthemomma*

      I have a mirror hanging on the back wall so I can see if someone comes by the doorway. Not 100% effective, but super helpful. Put up a procedure, spreadsheet, graph, or internal doc of some type on the other monitor/s. Doesn’t have to be one you use. Maybe a nice flowchart with lots of colors?

      1. Chaordic One*

        This is a good practical solution to the problem.

        But, as you note, not 100% effective. You never know who might be a vampire.

  74. Anon-y Non*

    Someone just found a bedbug in their cube (a few cubes down from me) and it’s been confirmed by a reliable source that’s what it is.

    Incredibly nervous right now. Survival stories of pests at work appreciated!

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      We routinely have one of those bedbug sniffer dogs come around the floor. All the cubes across the aisle from me were flagged, so everyone had to move their stuff to a quarantine and get them floors/cube walls/whatever shampooed and treated for bedbugs. Nobody ever heard of a bedbug again!

      Fret not.

    2. Anon-y Non*

      Thanks! I think we are on edge because our facilities guy is out today. I’d feel better knowing he was in the process of calling the exterminator. Thankfully it’s the weekend and so we won’t have to stay nervous after the next few hours!

    3. alex*

      Seeing 1 means there is likely an infestation– which is not a catastrophe but does mean they’re easy to take home. (and that also is not an immense deal but it is a pain. I’ve never had them but live in NYC and know many who have.)

      I would take off your clothes and put them in the dryer as soon as you get home (or in a sealed bag to take to the laundromat later). And if you drive, you may want to vacuum your car seat. TBH you may also want to test vulnerable spots in your house (there are DIY ways, like rubbing alcohol and eyeballing under your mattress for eggs), b/c as I said it’s like the old cockroach adage of if you see 1, there are probably a bunch more you’re not seeing, so it’s possible you’ve been exposed for a while.

      Bedbugs are totally manageable– and I’ve heard that fleas (like from a pet) are way worse– and once they’re all gone via treatment, it’s over. Nerves won’t help, but you can take precautions! And it’s also possible that the found guy just a rogue one-off who hitched a ride in today! Good luck!!

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        Seeing 1 means there is likely an infestation– which is not a catastrophe but does mean they’re easy to take home.

        To your point in your last paragraph, it can also mean that someone who has an infestation at home can sometimes take one to work. So it may just be this one-off bug from someone else’s home — so the threat of carrying it back to your own home is minimal.

    4. Natalie*

      Stay calm. People are very fond of their bed bug horror stories but they are actually not radioactive cancer plague bombs. They are generally treatable, especially when caught early. They do not carry disease.

      I don’t recommend looking for information online because it seems to be about 95% “I had to burn my house down to get rid of bed bugs” hysteria.

      1. Natalie*

        Forgot to mention – I have had a home infestation before. The pest control was a bit of a pain (moving our furniture away from the wall before the guy visited, etc) but the treatment worked like a dream.

      2. mreasy*

        They also don’t spread as quickly as other pests, usually. I had them in an old apartment for several months before we realized, because they were only biting my partner – who slept closer to the wall. So it may never become an issue for you if your office handles it swiftly. I had an office outbreak that never affected my side of the place.

  75. Tableau Wizard*

    Can anyone share with me their experiences about balancing the careers of both spouses?

    I just got a new job that I LOVE but it means we’re probably staying in the area for at least a few more years. My husband is unhappy with his job (fed gov’t) but is afraid to give up the stability and retirement benefits (which at least historically have been “sure things”). He could find some other work in our area, but there are a couple interesting opportunities that would require a big move. His job brought us here, but right now my job is keeping us here. We will probably revisit it in another 3 or so years if he doesn’t find something that makes him happy here, but I’d love to hear how others have done it.

    1. LadyKelvin*

      Honestly, in some ways you have to take turns. My husband and I are both PhDs but thankfully not academia track so we are basically taking turns for our careers. After he finished his degree he got a job in DC and I went and did mine in Miami. After that I moved to DC to be with him for a while and I just started a job in HI so we moved out here. His career is going on the backburner for a bit, he is still working for his old company remotely (but probably only till December, then they want to transition him off the contract). He’s also looking around here for something but it’ll likely be a step backwards so that I can stay at my job. If in a few years after I’m established, he finds something he can’t pass up, I’ll probably take a break and do something different for a while while he works at this new job. Will we ever find someplace where we both have great jobs? Maybe, hopefully, but probably not till we are advanced enough in our careers to really have a choice in what jobs we take.

      1. Overeducated*

        Same here. I worry a lot about being able to “catch up” career-wise after making moves for the other person’ turns, and things feel really unstable and frustrating as we move so much, but it’s the only fair compromise. The other option is to live apart and family is too important to me for that.

    2. Rosamond*

      What’s worked for us so far is thinking about our careers in the bigger picture of the goals we have together and what kind of life we want in the future. That seems to help us think more as a team, and less in terms of one person needing to give something up for the other one. It’s more like, how do we stage our careers to support what we want as a family?

  76. Myrin*

    On a positive note, I got admitted to a week-long summer course in my niche field in September! Unlike the people at the place I interviewed for, the guy responsible for this whole thing was incredibly transparent through the whole process (and, I mean, he really didn’t have to be – it’s just a course, after all, not a year-long commitment) but I had still kind of forgotten about it so I was very surprised when I got an official invitation to the course! I’m really happy about it – it’s a great opportunity, it will deal with some stuff I’ve been wanting to do for the past years, and it’s very satisfying that out of the more than 60 applicants I was one of the 20 chosen ones even though I have almost nothing to my name yet. I’m so excited!

    (I could also already use one of Alison’s excellent scripts about the sleeping situation – we’ll have to share with another person and I make horrible dying-whale noises at night that make everyone who is even remotely near me while I sleep hate me. I inquired if it would be possible to change some things around so that I could either be matched with an indifferent partner or get a single room and they were very responsive and kind about it!)

  77. Incognito*

    Anyone have any tips for handling multiple offers or if one company offers while you are waiting for another to send their offer?

    I have a string of in-person interviews for hard-to-fill positions at companies that are all looking to move quickly. There is a real possibility that could happen. ACK!

    Also, tips for keeping your hair from freaking out in the rain/humidity also appreciated, since one of my interview days is going to be a miserable wet mess, and my hair…oh god my hair!!!

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      When the first one extends the offer, ask for a few days to think about it. Then contact the other job and say that you’ve received another offer, but you’d really love to work here, and ask if there’s any chance that they could move up the timeline a little bit.

      No tips for the hair thing, unfortunately. Believe me, I know it’s terrible! I just put my hair back and try not to think about it.

    2. o.b.*

      For the hair thing, good god, do I get this. I’m not sure what kind of hair you have, but mine is thick and curly and I use product daily, extra when it rains. My suggestion is to bring a little bit of whatever kind of product you use (leave-in conditioner or gel or that kind of thing) in a travel size bottle and just pop into the bathroom to quickly reapply a small amount. Not a fix-all, but hopefully will take care of the worst of the frizz

      1. Incognito*

        Great tip! I hadn’t thought of carrying around emergency hair product. Could have used that countless times in the normal course of business.

  78. Foxtrot*

    What is business card etiquette? I’m in my first position where cards have been issued to me and I have no idea what I’m supposed to do with them. They just sit on my desk all the time even though I’m in meetings with new people quite a bit.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      Carry a few with you and give them to new people if you think they will need to contact you in the future.

    2. Variations on a theme*

      It sounds like it may not have come up for you, but generally when I meet new people I get into a business card exchange party. The new people extend business cards, I provide them mine, and voila!

      I also happen to work in marketing, however, and most of the people I meet with are either agency partners, press, or advertising professionals. This may not actually apply to you!

      In any case, I’d treat them as part of the introduction. “Hi, I’m Foxtrot. Great to meet you! Here’s my card so you have a way to reach me after the meeting.”

    3. BBBizAnalyst*

      I keep them at my desk and just pass them out when I’m in a client meeting. I don’t use them in my personal life at all.

    4. Rosamond*

      The only time I find them really useful is at conferences, or other places where you’re going to meet a bunch of different people that you might want to follow up with later. If I get someone’s card I’ll often write something like “Contact about teapot design consulting” on the card so I remember why I was supposed to follow up with them.

      When people within my organization give me their card, it just sits on my desk until I recycle it.

  79. Uh, non.*

    Wanted to give an update from a couple weeks ago:
    https://www.askamanager.org/2017/05/open-thread-may-5-6-2017.html#comment-1475864

    I confronted my manager again the following work day. I explained how important it was for me to be a part of this opportunity, and I was absolutely willing to compromise — I offered to work extra hours and even do a half day. They were firm on the no. They (boss and grand-boss) were firm that it would “look suspicious” if everyone was working that day and I was out, and they didn’t want to give me “special treatment.” I was floored because my manager has a history of favoring my colleague over me, of which I called her out on. I decided not to push it further.

    I was beyond upset, plus combined with my general depression and anxiety, this put me in a bad place. This other organization I volunteer with is important to me, and I see myself working with them well past this organization. My anxiety went up because I felt value-less here at work and I was worried my membership with this other place was in jeopardy. I poured my heart out in an e-mail to my contact person over there and explained the situation. Fingers crossed the situation lightens up!

    I also started getting help for my depression/anxiety after a Richter scale-10 breakdown last week. At work, no less…

    1. tiny temping teapot*

      Help can make such a huge difference with depression/anxiety and it’s so hard to ask. Good for you for doing so.

    2. ..Kat..*

      I’m so sorry. I reread your previous post – how you could make it up by working extra on other days that week. But they won’t budge. This sucks.

  80. SeptemberGrrl*

    Vent mode ON.

    If anyone in the hiring process every did what they said they were going to do, when they said they were going o do it, I’d die of shock. Luckily, there is no danger of that happening.

    In this week’s episode of “Don’t Believe A Word I Say”, I have an hour-long phone interview with the hiring manager on Tuesday morning. All goes well and she ends the call by saying she wants me to come in for an interview early next week and she’d check her schedule and email me that afternoon with date/time.

    And here we are on Friday nearly afternoon and I haven’t heard from her. I know that I likely never WILL hear from her, I’m used to it by now and am able to move on after having a good rant. That doesn’t make it OK; it’s a shitty way to treat people even though at this point in time, it’s SOP for most companies.

    Vent mode OFF.

  81. The Real Odafin Tutola*

    My dept has a pot of money to use up. We also have an Open Day (where people come who may be interested in applying) coming up (we’re part of a university).

    Can you think of anything that would be useful we can use the money for that isn’t a logo’d pen? Bonus cookies if it helps lower income people (we’re a Russell Group institution).

    Thanks in advance!

    2. TCO*

      Could you hire a trainer to present educational workshops during the day? Provide a catered lunch to help applicants network with your staff? Have a photographer on-site to provide professional headshots, or a career coach to provide resume reviews?

    3. Shadow*

      yes. Instead of spending it on open day do something nice for staff like coffee or lunch

    4. SAS*

      Can you cover some of the travel costs for potential applicants from lower-income backgrounds (maybe offer funding to target schools, if you have those)?

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          Thinking about it some more, travel costs would be great to cover and maybe overnight accommodation in some circumstances.

    5. LQ*

      Transportation? Maybe a shuttle to neighborhoods or communities you are trying to reach out to, or just from where the public transit is to the campus.
      Childcare. (Even if it is ok to bring kids, adding in child care will let parents who might not have a lot of options focus on the conversations they want to have an feel like the environment is inviting them in.)

    6. Thlayli*

      Possible options depending on what is relevant:
      1 advertising aimed at lower j come or disadvantaged groups (e.g. Focusing on childcare/accommodation available at the university to target single parents)
      2 actual helping people at the event directly e.g. childcare as others have suggested (there are organisations that are all police vetted that provide childcare for single day events – I had a creche at my wedding!)
      3 food. Low income people will appreciate it and everyone will remember it. A bag of giveaway treats with brochures etc in it used to be the norm at open days and I always appreciated the free food
      4 small useful items with logos that are more useful than a pen – umbrellas, phone holders for jogging, collapsible bags placemats etc you can get all sorts of things logo’d now
      5 kooky stuff – one of my favourite logo things I ever got was a phone deck chair holder it was /is awesome.
      6 free travel as others have suggested. Tho I think low income people might already have that in U.K.

      1. Thlayli*

        Little logo things that are relevant to what you are raising awareness of eg little puzzles for engineering or mini first aid kits for nursing or lab glasses for science or similar.

    7. Bagpuss*

      If you are allowed, then subsidising / reimbursing travel costs would probably be the biggest single thing – depending on which university you are and what transport is like, then a shuttle mini-bus from the station / bus station to campus might also be helpful.

      Free food during the open day

      Targeted publicity to schools in lower income areas / with lower university participation. Can you fund school visits ahead of the the open day, to encourage people to come?

      Brochures or leaflets which include information about financial and practical support available to students , as well as more general information about the university / course.

      Could you use the budget to pay exisiting students from low income backgrounds to assist at the open day, be available as guides etc? I would thin that those students may be less able to volunteer as they are more likely to be on tighter budgets themselves, and feel they can’t afford to turn down a shift at work to act as an unpaid volunteer, for instance. So actually paying them, and also providing them with food etc through the day (including any planning or training they attend) might be something to think about. you’d obviously need to think carefully about how you advertised but I would think it would be possible to put out a call which emphasised that you particularly want students willing to share experience of (say) being in the minority / the first / the only student from their school to come to university / first person in their family to have done so etc

  82. lb*

    I’ve just gotten a new job that I think will be fantastic — but, it requires working from home three days a week. I’ve never really had the opportunity to work at home before, and it’s been a couple of weeks now — and I’m struggling to keep myself on task and focused! Does anyone have any tips? I’m hoping to try out a bunch of things while I’m figuring out what routines work best for me.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      A schedule close to your in-office one will help. Also, try to have a dedicated space to work in that isn’t the sofa. You get up at the same time, get dressed (even if it’s only in old jeans and a t-shirt), and go to your office space. If you JUST work while you’re in that space, it will train your brain to associate it with your job.

      I had trouble with this because I am on the sofa at home for most everything, which made it hard to concentrate on work, which is why I said not the sofa, LOL. Plus, the TV is in the same room and when I had cable, it was too tempting to put on the TV for background noise and then get sucked into Gordon Ramsay’s latest foibles with recalcitrant restaurant owners. Put those together with a job where I spent a lot of time waiting for stuff to come to me, and you had a recipe for distraction!

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I tried not doing this, but it was so quiet (until everybody in the neighborhood decided to get a dog all at the same time, blargh) that I would get super sleepy if there wasn’t some kind of noise going on. If I kept the volume low, it was almost like tuning out coworkers talking.

      2. Ramona Flowers*

        What was harder, however, was persuading my cat that he didn’t need to sit on my keyboard…

        1. vpc*

          If you ever come up with a good solution to that one, please do share… My three take turns.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Routine. Including start and end of work day rituals. Have a set area for work; go there and leave when you finish. And arrange to get out and see people so you don’t turn into a hermit.

    3. LQ*

      In addition to everything everyone else said scheduled breaks. You know at work a coworker will stop by and talk to you and your brain will get a little break, or you’ll go ok now is the time to get coffee. I find myself pushing to either extreme getting up every 2 minutes to get a drink, go to the bathroom, change the laundry or not letting myself get up for 2 hours even though I really REALLY need to. The pomodoro or whatever works for you here is good.

      Leave the house. At least once on those days get out, go for a walk around the block when you would have been commuting and “shift” into work brain (even do it at the start and end of the day).

      Try different sounds. I’d lean away from something …too engaging. So there are ambient noise generators that will do things like coffee shop sounds in addition to the usual rain. But if you want you can check out gaming sound generators which are designed for playing in the background of tabletop rpgs and simulate environments based on different games. It’s like coffee shop, but from the future, or with magic. Also try silence and see how you do with that.

      I’d also make a requirement for yourself like try this new routine for a while (maybe a week if you are working from home 3 days) to really see if you like it.

    4. Thlayli*

      Schedule breaks for housework and STICK TO THEM. The amount of times I took 5 mins to put in a load of laundry then 45 mins later I find myself cleaning the kitchen and I’m like “ahh what happened” then you have to work late to catch up.

      It’s great to take 5 mins to get a few bits and pieces done but don’t let it run away with you!

  83. T swift*

    Outlook tips?

    I’ve never used it before (only gmail) and am working to adjust to it at my new jobs. What are your calendar/mail organization tips/tricks?
    Thanks in advance!

    1. Tableau Wizard*

      Following because I need the same help.

      A couple tips I can share is to save key emails into folders by project or topic or whatever makes sense for your role. Also, have a good understanding on when/if your emails get archived because you don’t want to be surprised by that.

    2. AwkwardKaterpillar*

      The following things have helped me:

      1. Folders and rules can be really useful organizing tools but don’t over use them. If you get emails every day that you truly don’t need to look at, sending them directly to a folder can work great. However, if you are doing that with 20 different folders each day things can easily slip through the cracks.

      I’ve had people new to Outlook put so many rules on their emails that they couldn’t find anything because it was automatically sorted to a gazillion different folders.

      2. If there are any emails/senders that you want to make sure to address immediately you can highlight the subject in a different color or font. This can be really helpful if you need to act on something right when it comes in.

      3. If you are using the outlook calendar – take advantage of the scheduling assistant. Even if you can’t see what people are doing, you can see blocked out times. It’s so much easier than getting an email asking when you are free.

      4. Don’t use the read receipt function unless you absolutely have to. They are really, really annoying.

      Just a few off the top of my head. Good luck!

    3. LQ*

      I actually love the outlook to do manager when used well. 98% of my to do things come through email so it makes this much easier to use. You can actually set up a view for things, flag them, set deadlines and then view them easily and quickly to handle what your outstanding “to do” emails are. I’ll often sit with that window open rather than the mail window open. When something comes in it pops up on my window and I can in 5 seconds or less and with just the info in front of me usually do a light triage, yes deal with now, deal with later, eh don’t really care. Deal now I open and handle. Deal later I flag and keep doing what I’m doing. Eh I just x out.

      1. HR Bee*

        This. If you’re not sure how to flag emails as to-dos: look in the Inbox window and find the little outline of a flag to the right of the email (in most versions of Outlook anyway.) Click it. Boom, this email is now on your to-do list. You can also right-click it and set a due date for later. It’s easy to add to-do items that are not email related as well.

        I also set outgoing email messages as flagged for a later date, as well. A good 50% of the time that I send an actionable email I never get a response; this reminds me to follow up on it if I don’t hear back. Makes me look super organized and on top of things.

        I use Outlook’s to-d0 list for EVERYTHING.

        1. HR Bee*

          I should add that the ability to set up recurring to-do items (once a week, once a month, annually, whatever) is an absolute lifesaver, as is the ability to add reminder notifications to items.

        2. LQ*

          Yes! I used the heck out of outgoing flags in my last project. The person I was emailing lost everything and I was easily able to say where are you at on these 5 things. Do you need the links again? Here.

    4. Natalie*

      I love folders but I agree with AwkwardKaterpillar – keep them simple. If you have lots of topics it’s too easy to have emails that could fit into three different categories and then you can’t remember where you put it. The exception would be if you have discrete projects (buildings, cases, events, etc). I have Action, Open Items (which is basically just a holding pen for a 5 or 6 emails I’ll need to reference frequently), Waiting For, and Archive. That’s it.

      I mentioned this upthread but every time it comes up it seems like no one knows about it – the “Ignore Conversation” button is super helpful if you ever end up on a giant reply-all chain. It sends all subsequent replies to the trash. (You can scan them quickly before deleting them.)

    5. LCL*

      Outlook is infinitely configurable. Starting with the default screen, start deleting every column you don’t use.
      Change the font type, size, and color so it is easily readable to you.
      Don’t use threaded conversations.
      You can turn the reading pane (through the view menu) off. I leave it off, it takes up way too much real estate.
      You can easily change the sort. I default to sort by date, then click all and sort by sender when looking for something specific. It’s also easy to delete if you sort by sender.
      For help, type the question into your browser. The internet is way easier to use than Microsoft help.

    6. Accidental Analyst*

      Tip for if you use folders and can’t remember what folder you put an email in. Go into the inbox and search. This actually searches everywhere

      Things that can also make searching easier:
      datesent:
      datereceived:
      When you do those it brings up a calendar and you can limit the search date range
      hasattachment:yes only shows things with attachments
      to: type name after to and it will limit to emails that were sent to that person
      from: type name after and it will limit to emails that were sent from that person

      Those search terms can be linked together. Eg to:bob has:attachment proposal. This will find all emails sent bob that have an attachment and have the word proposal.

    7. Ramona Flowers*

      I don’t use lots of folders. They helped me feel organised but actually ate my time. Now I have flagged emails in my inbox, folders for useful info and nice feedback, and everything else gets deleted or archived.

      I made a list of the shortcuts I found most helpful and also set up custom quick steps to add more shortcuts. It’s annoying that you can only use ctrl+shift+number and not any shortcut you like (unless you can install stuff or create scripts, which I can’t) but better than nothing if you like shortcuts (which I do).

      I colour code things in my calendar e.g. I have a colour for coverage I provide on certain things and a colour for deadlines. I like using the work week view and adding all-day tasks because they appear at the top of each day – I use them to list my top priorities.

  84. Anon16*

    Hi all, I’m looking for some advice about a potential career move. I currently work as a project manager at a small non-profit and have an additional year of marketing/sales experience at the same organization in a Northeastern city. I’m looking to move into another marketing role in corporate, and have gotten recently interested in market research, but I’m open to anything in the field to gain more experience.

    Ideally, I’d like (one day) to do international market research for companies that are looking to expand overseas. I’m still learning about the industry and am not sure whether those positions exist or what they look like.
    I’m 25 and graduated from college two years ago with a major in English literature and am looking to try to start thinking about a career. Does it make sense to go directly into an MBA at this point? I thought of trying to get an entry-level position in marketing to gain more experience before a masters but am worried about competing with those who have Bachelor’s degrees in a business-related field.

    Would it be better to begin taking coursework related to an MBA while doing my current position? Does anyone have any experience in this area and would know the best way to navigate this type of career at this point in time? Thanks so much in advance!

  85. AnonHere*

    Have you ever had an interview question that asked how you would contribute something along with other staff members? Example:

    How would you contribute to the staff newsletter?

    I almost want to answer by saying, “Well, if you hired me I could tell you!” but I know that isn’t the
    proper thing to say. Sometimes you need more info about the environment. (Unless I’m overthinking)

    1. Parenthetically*

      I wouldn’t begin to know how to answer that question. Maybe something like, “I enjoy/am good at copyediting and style, but my strengths are more in general writing improvement.”

      Ugh, it’s like you’re getting voluntold for a newsletter job before you’ve even been hired!

    2. ..Kat..*

      “I would avoid this as a dog with rabies avoids water ” would be my answer. Probably would not get me a job offer!

  86. Kit*

    HR works in a closed office in the corner of my open plan office. Picture a loft, with 4 desks against one wall and the remaining space carved into a triangular room. The 4 desks belong to 4 different departments, and are shared between department managers and deputies.

    My problem is whenever anyone comes up to talk to HR, they interrupt me to ask if a particular HR person is in. I am a department supervisor and don’t pay attention to the comings and goings of HR. My answer is always the same: “knock and find out”. Often they put their ear to the door to see if they’re interrupting or just leave! Should I say something to HR? I think they need a sign of some kind on their door.

    1. HR Bee*

      Say something to HR. Employees tend to see a closed door on an HR person’s office as a giant red flag stating SOMEONE IS GETTING FIRED IN HERE but honestly it’s usually just that the HR person needs to concentrate on writing a complicated policy or something. Assuming they are generally reasonable people, let them know that staff are walking away without talking to them because their door is closed. They probably don’t realize it’s happening.

      (I used to share a very small office with my boss, and people would do this to the manager who sat outside our door, too.)

  87. Notice period includes Memorial Day*

    Hello! I will be hearing back about a job I’ve extensively interviewed for by Monday. IF I get the offer (fingers crossed), how should I handle Memorial Day weekend being part of the notice period? I already have 2 vacation days scheduled (Friday before, Tuesday after) around Memorial Day, with a plane ticket booked. I’d of course like to give the standard 2 weeks notice. How would you go about this? Say I give notice on Monday, do I cancel my vacation? Extend 2 weeks to 2 weeks and 3 days? What would you do?

    1. Lily Rowan*

      If I were your boss, I’d prefer at least two full weeks of working, assuming you have a significant amount of stuff to wrap up/transition/etc., so could you give three weeks? If you have a job that someone else can just come in and do, I wouldn’t worry as much, and the two weeks including vacation would probably be fine.

    2. JulieBulie*

      I’d say two calendar weeks is fine if you’re really dying to get out of there. That gives them two weeks to prepare for your exit, whether you’re in the office during that time or not.

      2 weeks + 3 days would be much more considerate, but three weeks would be the simplest way to do it, if you can, and your employer would probably appreciate the extra time.

    3. NacSacJack*

      Find out when the new company wants you to start. Given the holiday, they may opt to start you three weeks into June. I’d base your notice period on the future start date, but I would give no less than two business weeks. I once received an offer on Monday and gave notice on Tuesday for a week from Friday, but I was in between projects.

  88. Anon Anon*

    I’ve been waiting for the open thread…for a question…

    If your organization provides tuition reimbursement what sort of reimbursement do they provide? Is it a certain number of hours per year or per semester? A flat dollar amount? A certain percentage of tuition?

    I am interested in pursuing a graduate degree that relates directly to my work, but my organization has no professional development/education reimbursement policy. The organization does reimburse for professional development programming and certifications, but they’ve never reimbursed any staff member for this sort of thing. I’ve drawn up a proposal, but I’ve been asked to indicate what sort of funding I think is reasonable. Our HR person is useless and has already told me that they don’t have time to develop a policy about this or do the research to find out what other companies offer. My google search has indicated policies that are are everything from $1000 a year in tuition reimbursement to unlimited reimbursement.

    1. Anonymous Poster*

      It really really varies. Typical in my engineering field is the IRS tax-free limit, which I believe is $5250 or something around there. Anything above that is taxable income. I’d make sure to outline if you go above the IRS limit how the taxable income part is going to be handled, because that can lead to a very nasty tax bill. I’ve seen company do payroll deductions over so many pay periods to try and avoid that situation, which might be helpful.

      1. Anon Anon*

        The variation is what is challenging, when you have an HR department that won’t do their job (well they will, but they’ve indicated it would take them at least 18 months to develop a policy). The tax limit is a good thing to keep in mind.

        1. Anonymous Poster*

          The key is that it’s very field specific from what I’ve seen. Bigger places post that sort of information online so it should be easy to dig up what your large competitors are doing.

          Clawbacks are typical for engineering. Though I’d be really careful with these. My last company boosted my work hours so that I couldn’t attend class when I was using their college benefits. When I quit and argued that they made it untenable for me to use this benefit as it was intended, they said they never promised I’d be able to complete my degree and slapped me with a 30k bill upon my leaving. I’ll be making payments for awhile, but at least I was able to complete my degree, and I think leaving ended up saving my marriage. I think I made the right choice.

      2. NacSacJack*

        My company also pays up to, but not beyond the IRS tax-free limit, plus they also ask for a commitment of some years, not sure if its 3 or 7 years with the percentage you have to reimburse the company going down as time goes by, but it was enough for me to not bother getting a graduate degree since I wouldnt get a promotion out of it.

    2. Kowalski! Options!*

      Officially, our personal learning plans have room for about $1,000 per year for external suppliers; with most internal training, we can take as much as we want, since there are no interdepartmental cross-charges. They’ll usually green-light anything under that amount, but you have to pay up front and only get reimbursed once you’ve successfully completed the entire program/course. If others don’t use their entire complement of a thousand bucks by halfway through the year, and you still have other external training you want to take, they’ll take it into consideration and try to get you in and pay for it.

    3. Emilia Bedelia*

      My company provides $15,000 per year in tuition reimbursement. You have to pay the money up front, and then they will reimburse based on your grade- I believe A,B grades get 100% reimbursed, C’s get 80%, Ds get 60%, failing grades don’t get reimbursed, but I am not sure about the numbers. It’s considered taxable income, which is made clear upfront. I don’t think we have a requirement to stay with the company after they’ve paid for the degree.

      1. Anon Anon*

        That’s good to know. My organization has requested that I indicate how long I’d be willing to commit to stay following the completion of this degree. To met his depends on the level of funding they provide. I am more than happy to have a look back period for significant support.

    4. LadyKelvin*

      I work for a university (non-academic) but we get 9 credits per year that we pay for up front and then can submit our grades for reimbursement. But it has to be towards a degree related to your job. And at our school, obviously.

    5. Elizabeth West*

      Ours was a set amount and it wasn’t enough for me to finish the program I started under Vocational Rehabilitation without borrowing more money. So I quit the program. I just couldn’t swallow the idea of taking our more loans when I already owed so much. Which is only getting worse with accrued interest, since I’m not working! >:(

    6. JayeRaye*

      My employer reimburses up to the tax limit of $5250 per calendar year, and they fund tutiion, fees, and books. I have to submit official grades in order to get reimbursed, and they do not reimburse for anything below a “C”. They also require 24 months of work after the reimbursement date – but they prorate if you leave early. So if you leave after 18 months you only need to pay back the company for 25% of the money paid out to you.

  89. Actuarial Octagon*

    I’m looking for advice dealing with my coworker who is really getting on my nerves and I’m too close to the situation to know if this is something I should address with her.

    Background: I’m senior to her in job title and tenure but am not her manager. I’m also a few years older and she is on a similar career path as the one I took so she looks to me for advice fairly often.

    The problem: she is crazy nosy! We’re an office of about 15 and anytime someone walks through our cubical area she asks them a question. What food are they eating, where did they go, on and on. Every. Single. Time.

    Should I talk to her about this? I think she’s just more chatty and outgoing than our very quiet introverted office. I also know it bothers other people because whenever she’s not here everyone makes comments about how nice and quiet it is.

    Help!

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      It sounds like she’s more extroverted than the rest of you. For you, she’s disrupting a quiet office – maybe she’s lonely and desperate for interaction? Is the problem the chatter or the nosiness?

  90. Nervously Waiting*

    Thanks to AAM, I applied for a position much better suited to me where I have a strong network of people I enjoy talking teapots with, and did the best possible cover letter, resume, and interview prep I could. I applied, had a phone interview within 3 days, final interview 2 days after that, and meeting with benefits person the following day (yesterday.) Total time from app to benefits review: one week. References have been called, my current supervisor told me when they talked to him, they mentioned wanting to move quickly. I’ve sent my perfect follow up emails. And now I wait, feeling the lining of my stomach destroyed by nervous anticipation.

    2. Nervously Waiting*

      Offered and accepted! Pay raise is enough to cover in-state college room and board. (I have 3 teenagers. This is huge.) Now, to resign gracefully from the place where I am an unappreciated rock star…

  91. Overit*

    I’ve been working within the same group for a few years and it seems as though lately things are changing for the worse. I don’t know what the point of this post is, I guess to vent and get some opinions about what we should suck up and what changes are ridiculous.

    The majority of the group are contractors, with the couple of managers at the top being employees. The contractors are further divided into contractors who are employees of the contracting company (salaried, get sick & vacations hours) and hourly employees of the contracting company (no benefits but eligible for ot). A lot of contractors are also here on visas so the managers have all the power because the contractors are afraid to speak up and the managers get mad when they’ve tried to in the past. The group is also divided into teams based on the different parts of the project. These teams tend to be made up of all employees other than my group.

    The first change came in when the flu was going around and a lot of people were working from home. We were told that if we were sick we needed to take the day off and rest instead of working from home. This sounds great except for the hourly contractors this meant taking unpaid days off and a meant a lot of people came in sick anyway and the cycle of people getting sick lingered longer than it should. I was actually sick twice during this period and except for one of the days where I was completely drained (and I took the day off before their announcement) I had no loss of productivity working from home. Although there is some benefit from being in the office to collaborate face to face, many of the employees have a schedule where they regularly work from home certain days so it’s not unusual for people to not be in the office. Additionally, there are often tasks that require no interaction at all so there is no difference in working from home or in the office unless you’re a micromanaging manager who likes to walk around to confirm everyone is working.

    Shortly after, an email came telling us that we were not to take any time off from that point until August when the current version of our project would be done. This was a problem for many people who hoped to take a few days to spend with their children over the summer break. The few that had to courage to speak up and point out that they already planned a vacation and gotten it approved were pulled into meetings and interrogated about where they were going and if they really needed to go. One conversation ended with the manager throwing a stack of papers at the employee, yelling “enjoy your vacation”, and storming out of the office.

    Most recently, we received an email telling us that we now have set hours we’re expected to be in the office. Apparently a few contractors were coming in late and leaving early so we’re all being punished by being expected to be in the office & leave at the highest traffic times. A lot of people have other obligations like picking up children so to just make a rule like this and then expect people to be able to change their hours the next day is crazy. It also doesn’t make sense in a lot of cases where the employees come in & leave early meaning we’re not there when they are in the morning and no one is left in the office the last couple of hours we’re expected to work (other than the micromanaging manager, this schedule fits perfectly with her hours).

    Basically it seems like something happens and instead of talking to the people who are being unproductive when working from home or not working enough hours, the whole group is punished. The power dynamic means that most people are afraid to speak up, morale just keeps getting worse, and slowly people are leaving. I love the team I work with but I don’t know how much longer I can put up with the group’s management.

    1. Thlayli*

      That sounds absolutely shitty. Sorry. Unfortunately I think the only option is to leave or else to look into labour laws and / or consider unionising if that is relevant where you are (it may not be relevant but in some countries permanent contractors have similar rights to employees and /or have rights to form a union),

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Upper management has basically stripped front line managers of much of their authority.

      Honestly, this sounds like a retail job. This is what happens in retail.

      Start looking. You have a company that does not trust its people to do what they are supposed to do. They have confused the word “company” with the word “kindergarten”. I think when they find that this does not work, they will just make tighter and tighter rules.

      If you have a decent boss you can try to get her thoughts on what is going on. If she indicates that she looks at the employment ads, that is your cue to definitely look.

  92. Huntington*

    I quite suddenly and unexpectedly have lost all enthusiasm and interest in my longtime employer. A few weeks ago I had the most amazing opening for taking my work for the company to a whole new level — and the company not only did nothing to promote this either externally or internally (in even the most standard, routine ways for our industry) but profoundly embarrassed me before the new client by treating the whole venture so poorly. Whereas I had thought this work was laying the groundwork for the rest of my career here, I now feel it’s the end of the road here. The depression is astonishing.

    1. Chaordic One*

      I’m so sorry you had to come to this realization in this way. It really sucks, it speaks poorly of your employer and it is understandable that you would feel this way.

      Although you are depressed, please don’t use the depression as an excuse not to start a discrete job search. Start looking for your next opportunity and the sooner you do, the sooner it will come about.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Agreed.

        Just because the company pulled the floor out from under your feet, do not do the same to your own self.

        It’s the choices we make when the chips are down that impact our quality of life.

        There are other opportunities to lay the groundwork for the rest of your career, start looking for those opportunities. Think. How long ago was it that you were wondering if you would ever have a solid opportunity? Okay, this ship sailed without you. But the next one won’t. Just have the audacity to keep going.

  93. CatCat*

    Thursday, I did a combo of bicycling and riding the bus. I learned how to load my bike on/off the bus bike rack (I waited until I could take it home on the route of the nice bus driver who I knew would show me how it worked because I’ve seen some of the drivers be real a-holes about it) and it’s pretty easy. A colleague met up with me downtown and we biked in together today. I mentioned last week the potential hazards in the park I have to go through if I bike the whole way without taking the bus, but I feel safe enough to bike that way when someone else is with me. So that was really nice! I brought in a small hair dryer and a couple minutes with that in the bathroom helped with the helmet hair situation. I’m going to leave it at the office. My colleague is leaving earlier than me today so I’ll do bike/bus this afternoon. Feeling a lot more confident navigating the streets too!

    I’d like to ramp up how often I bike.

    1. Kowalski! Options!*

      Hey, good for you! I wish I was being better about biking to work – it’s not far, it’s 98% bike paths, but I get hellacious headwinds on the way back home, which really puts me off the idea of biking to work because it’ll be all “Surrender, Dorothy” on the way back. (I could bus-rack it back, but somehow it feels like giving in!) And we have great biking infrastructure here – locked bike storage for 400 bikes (inside!), showers, and a lot of Lycra-clad senior managers who have running battles on Strava. Hopefully it’ll get more inspiring as the weather gets warmer.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I think they are still available- you can get an air horn for your bike.
      The “air tank” looks like a plastic water bottle and the darn thing is LOUD. (When you see it, you will understand, it does not look like it will work. But it works grrreat.)

      Not only does it wake up sleeping drivers, it gets rid of dogs that like to chase.
      These are not super expensive. You might be able to install it yourself, or have a bike shop do it for you.
      Let me tell you, as a safety device, they are worth. every. single. penny.
      If you get one, use it a couple times while you are standing still so you do not startle yourself when you actually use it.

  94. Sparkly Librarian*

    I am so geared up for this all-day planning retreat with the team I’m leaving. It’s crucial to passing on institutional knowledge before I transfer out in two weeks. There will be catered breakfast and lunch and we can focus on our collaborative work. I’ve been looking forward to it for weeks. It totally doesn’t matter that I was up half the night with food poisoning, and will be chugging Pedialyte the whole time, right? Right?

  95. Lalaith*

    Has anyone here worked in the fashion industry? How much do fashion companies care if their employees are into fashion (if that’s not part of their job)? I’m a web developer, and I’ve seen some job postings for fashion companies.
    I’m good at what I do, and if the job is good I’d be interested, but I have little to no interest in their products. My sense of style is essentially nonexistent :-P Is that a no-go?

    1. EmilyG*

      I don’t think it’s a no-go, but I’ve found that when it comes to working in “cool” industries, the employer expects the coolness to make up for other downsides, like terrible pay or hours–because they can always find people who are extra-interested in working there and rubbing elbows. I’d apply and then see if you notice any red flags if you interview.

      1. Lalaith*

        True enough. I was looking at one of the companies on Glassdoor, and one of the big perks was an employee discount. Not all that motivating for me. But I applied anyway – it doesn’t hurt to see!

    2. Rosamond*

      My husband works in a technical role for a “cool” lifestyle brand that everyone has heard of, and one thing I’ll say is that while he had little or no fashion sense before, he does now, just because of the environment.

      1. Rosamond*

        Meant to add – While it’s true that there’s a “glamour discount” in a lot of cool fields, his company actually offers awesome benefits and competitive salaries, so don’t let that keep you from looking into opportunities.

  96. Messy Toast*

    My supervisor thinks that the benefits that apply to all employees (comp time, flex time, etc.) don’t apply to his staff. We are constantly working extra hours and days with no extra compensation, while other staff have the luxury of taking additional time off. How do I address this?

    1. Mike C.*

      Talk to HR, or go above his head somehow. Some things like flextime might be at the discretion of the manager but the rest sounds sketchy.

    3. Chaordic One*

      When I brought this up with my supervisor, he looked at me with shock and disbelief. It did not end well.

    4. Thlayli*

      First step would be contacting your supervisor directly with the relevant info (e.g. Send her a copy of the policy or other evidence that you are entitled to it)

      If that doesn’t work try a face to face discussion

      After that it’s time to go to HR/your grand boss as appropriate

      Caveat: make 100% certain you actually are entitled to this first. Look out for wordinf like “by agreement” or “at supervisors discretion” in the policy

      Good luck

  97. Ssbb*

    So, I’m kind of having a crisis of faith about my job.

    I’m a copy editor / proofreader, and I’m starting to feel like my position is kind of useless. Finding misspellings and typos and such, sure, that’s great. But so much of grammar is subjective, and in working with clients who use different style guides, it’s starting to feel pretty pointless. Like, no one’s going to notice if you put spaces around you em dash on your one-pager but not on your website. As long as the meaning is clear, why sweat the small stuff?

    It’s been very de-motivating to me. If anyone has thoughts or suggestions (or even just wants to commiserate), that’d be swell.

    1. LQ*

      While the space on the em dash might not matter there are some things that totally matter. There are tons of things that I read that are unclear because of grammar and spelling. And sure, sometimes I can muscle my way through them by getting into the head of the writer. (Like you are no doubt doing here.) But even if what you are doing is “only” lightening the cognitive load on the reader that’s a really big deal.

      Trying to read through health care paperwork and feeling exhausted because of the content because it’s not my job to understand that and it’s all like running in molasses to understand it…making it so that I don’t ALSO have to struggle to know if they meant that it covers spouse AND children or spouse and spouse’s children? I don’t know? Now I have to go look that up and it’s because they needed a comma? Yes. Please! That’s huge. That’s making a big difference in the lives of things. But yes, it is about the meaning being clear, that’s what you’re doing so much of the time. So thank you!

    2. fposte*

      I think that every time I’m bogged down in proofing minutiae, but the fact is people do notice. It’s the difference between a garment with crooked hems, unfinished pockets, and the odd string hanging off and a really high-end construction.

    3. Jules the First*

      If it makes you feel better, *I* will notice that you’ve put spaces around your em dash on your one-pager but not on your website and it will ruin my day. So thank you for making sure all your clients have all their documents properly spaced and punctuated!

      (I hear you on the sense of futility though – I once had some colleagues send me a pitch that they were so very proud of, only for me to notice that they had spelled our company name wrong on every single page. In 34-point type. After they’d sent it to the client.)

    5. Ramona Flowers*

      I think it’s important to remember that people will notice these things, just often not consciously. (Although I would totally notice and appreciate your em dashes.)

      Because people notice, on some level, when something feels off or wrong or just not cohesive. As with branding, editorial style is there to be reliable and consistent and not confusing. It matters. It’s just often doing that invisibly.

    6. Chaordic One*

      Unfortunately, like so many other things in life, these are the kinds of things that people don’t notice when they’re done right, but are all too eager to point out when they are done wrong.

    7. Ann O.*

      If people are paying you money, it’s because they feel that this stuff matters. Many people in this day and age don’t make that choice. Trust the ones who are making it are making with with intention.

      But if you feel demotivated, could you also transition to substantive editing or developmental editing?

    8. Not So NewReader*

      I have a friend who does a lot of proofing/editing. She says that she is also a life coach, a psychologist, a Father Confessor and a number of other hats.

      It sounds to me like her work is the tip of the iceberg. The rest of the story is that she touches people lives, impacts their thinking and helps with their life choices. And all this starts with taking the time to read what someone else has written. It’s a chance to be in the mind of another person and sometimes get to see their hearts and souls too.

  98. Frustrated over lunch*

    I am the only woman on a team of six people. I’m fairly new to the team (only a couple months.) My sort-of-manager (I say sort-of because I’m in a very flat-structured group where about 60 of us technically fall directly under the same executive) frequently goes out to lunch with the five other people on the team (although the boundary definition of this team is fairly fluid.) He’s been very nice to me since I started, except that, with the exception of the very first week, I’m not invited out to lunch. I find myself getting more and more depressed every time this happens, especially when it’s obvious that he’s trying to be subtle when rounding up the rest of the team. I am also not the newest person.

    Lunch is not something I want to raise a stink about. I wish there was a way I could hint that this is really bothering to me without actually raising it as an issue. Because it’s more upsetting that he simply doesn’t want me at lunch vs. actually caring about the lunch itself.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      That really sucks. Unfortunately, you may just have to accept that these people are your coworkers, not your friends, and give up on outside-of-work interactions with them. I don’t mean it in a bad way, they’re being jerks, but I don’t really know how you can force social interaction with them if they don’t want to.

      If it’s any consolation, I’m the only women in a group with six guys and lunches are DEAD boring. If I have to hear about last night’s basketball game one more time…

    2. Shadow*

      can you make it small talk by saying to a co worker “I heard you all have a lunch club??? Oh that’s cool sounds like fun”

    3. Mints*

      You could try inviting yourself once and see how it goes? “Are you guys going to lunch later? Mind if I come – I didn’t bring lunch today?”
      It’s possible they’re all “Oh of course, we thought you were Paleo vegan whatever and didn’t want to!”
      Also possibly it’ll be awkward but at least you brought it up

      1. mreasy*

        If they’re going to Hooters or a strip club for lunches with their coworkers, they’re especially being jerks!

    5. Close Bracket*

      Oh dear. I have been there. I’m sorry.

      If there are co-workers you like, would a pre-emptive lunch invite to them go well? The problem with missing out on these things is you missing the interactions and shop talk that really make you a team.

      Little story for you:
      I once had a co-worker who would go around rounding people up for lunch, in a general, “Who’s up for lunch?” sort of way. One day, I accepted, to be team-ly. He gave me a shocked look, which should have been my clue, but I ignored it. Well, at lunch, with two other male colleagues, the talk was more or less all about women. Did I mention lunch guy was married? And well known for having every possible sort of affairs? Awkward. After that, he went around more quietly to round people up for lunch, but he didn’t need to. There was no chance I wanted to get lunch with that crew again.

  99. TwinCitiesHR*

    I am at wits end with my current boss who is the owner of the company. I have never been so micromanged or belittle or degraded in my life! And that’s says a lot for a former Hotel GM! She is so mean and nasty! Her emotions run the show here and the constant highs and lows everyday are draining on me so much. I literally cringe when I see coming to my office and think dear god what did I do now. And usually its something she wants to be angry about or show I did wrong but she didn’t look at the full picture or have the full story and when it comes out that I did in fact did ABC she get defense and claims she is just asking questions in a snotty, demeaning way. Her rules and how she wants something done changes based on her mood and the way the wind blows that day. I just can’t anymore. There are a tons of pros for this gig but dealing with her the last year has been draining and is affecting my mental health.

    Anyways I want to leave but will have only been here a year in early July. My last job I was at a year and half and I was underemployed (by choice after 10 years in the hospitality business and serious burnout.) and left because after having a baby we needed to be making more money and I need to professionally move on. Before that I spent 10 years at the same company.
    So my question is will it look bad to employers if I am job searching again after a year and with only a year and half at the other company? What do I tell them when they ask why I am leaving? Thanks!

    1. JulieBulie*

      I don’t think it will look bad. You can say, “I need to be in a place where I feel that I can grow professionally.”

  100. DaLizzy*

    Alison this question is actually for you :)

    I submitted a question to you recently and I was wondering – is there a period of time that I can figure it’s not one you’ll be answering and I can post it here for feedback? It’s about my employer wanting to use employee’s language skills and not sending everything to our translator service, even those that were not hired for language skills. They are planning on doing this soon, they plan on changing job descriptions but haven’t talked to the employees in question and I could use some direction.

    Thanks!

  101. Blabist*

    Can someone help me translate my project leadership successes into selling points for a management job?

    I think what I’m struggling with is knowing when to claim the team’s accomplishments as my own and when to credit the group. I also didn’t have 100% control/oversight, we had a project sponsor who had final say in certain decisions but I certainly lead, presented my strategy and offered alternatives/mitigations if the sponsor had valid concerns.

    I’m an individual contributor and am preparing for my first management interview and still trying to wrap my head around how the process differs between the two roles.

    1. JulieBulie*

      By all means, talk about your personal contributions to a project, but don’t lose sight of the fact that you did, in fact, lead the team. The things the team accomplished were done under your leadership. Think of specific ways that your leadership helped the team succeed.

    2. Close Bracket*

      Talk about the decisions you made in your leadership role. If those decisions went for sponsor approval, do mention that, but it doesn’t change the fact that you came up with a decision.

  102. Nervous Accountant*

    Hey all,

    I have a resume question–I’m not job searching or anything but I think it should be good to have my resume up to date and ready to go. I haven’t updated it since I started working at my current job, which was in 2014 (!).

    My main question is–I was a seasonal employee from Jan-April 2014. I came back in December of the same year and been here since. How should I list this on my resume? Can I get away with putting “Company January 2014-current”? I”m kind of hesitant to because I have a 8 month gap then..>I did work in those 8 months but it was a very very very toxic place which I left within 2 months.

    1. HisGirlFriday*

      I would put:
      Teapots of America
      Seasonal, January-April 2014
      Chocolate Spout Designer, December 2014-present

      I’d leave off the two-month stint because it raises more questions than it helps you. Also, if you have an otherwise solid work history, an eight-month gap isn’t going to matter. But if you present it that you worked there CONTINUOUSLY for that time, and a potential employer finds out you did not, that’s a red flag for them.

    2. Melody Pond*

      Hey, I’m in exactly the same boat!

      I worked for my current firm seasonally from February 2016 – April 2016, but I already had a full-time offer starting in November 2016. And I’ve been here ever since November 2016.

      I’ve also had one other job where I worked the same job over two different chunks of time, and I would handle both prior job and my current position in basically the same way:

      Company X – Position Y
      Feb 2016 – April 2016
      November 2016 – present

    3. krysb*

      I worked at my job for 6 months, left for 6 months, then came back (5 years and counting). Like HisGirlFriday, I list that original time separately, especially since my company considers my 2nd start date my legitimate start date.

  103. Noodle*

    I’m looking for advice on negotiating a promotion effectively. Here’s the context: my company went through a major re-org a couple months ago. I was offered a position that had a better title, but officially was a lateral move. Due to the huge workload of HR to execute on the re-org, anyone given a lateral move was not given any salary adjustment. I went from being an individual contributor to managing three people. Also, in the midst of the re-org after titles/levels had been set, some other changes took place in the organization that made my scope of work increase significantly. As in, people look at me wide-eyed when I tell them my scope of work. I now feel that my work merits being promoted to the next level, as I work with several people at that level and believe my work is equal to many of them and greater than some of them. That level also makes about $10k more than I make now, so it’s not an insignificant bump. My new direct boss (who is a few levels higher) told me that appropriate levels and compensation would be addressed once the re-org craziness settled down.

    In the next couple months, I would like to have a conversation with my boss to ensure this level/comp assessment happens for me and make the case to be moved up to the next level. My boss has implied, but not said outright, that she thinks my new role merits this. However, I realize it’s also not entirely in her control and she’ll need to go to bat for me. I also need to somehow make it known that if I’m not promoted, I will be seeking other opportunities at our company at the new level. The reality is that I took on a massive amount of work and stress in this role relative to my prior role, and while I’m understanding of the circumstances that led to me getting this work as a lateral move, I’m not willing to do it for the same pay in the long term. I don’t want it to sound like an ultimatum though. Does anyone have tips for navigating this conversation?

    1. Thlayli*

      It sounds like your first step might be an open conversation with your direct boss about this. Like you say she will be the one going to bat so be open and honest. After that reassess the situation.

  104. HRChick*

    I am in HR and one of my duties is related to recruiting. I don’t hire anyone – our managers do that – but I post positions, get the information out there, and then once the manager makes the selection, I onboard the new employee.

    If a hiring manager doesn’t put their phone number out there, the applicants will call me with questions. I have had one applicant who was not selected for a position he applied for. I know he was not selected because after he applied, he called me every.single.day asking if he got the job. I finally called the hiring manager and begged him to tell the applicant yay/nay so that he would leave me alone.

    Well, not the applicant calls me every.single.day asking if we “have anything else for” him. I tell him he has to apply to our open positions, that his application is on file for the position he applied for, and I can’t tell him anything else because we don’t create positions for people.

    He still calls every day. Now, I get sob stories about how he is going to lose his house.

    I feel bad for him, but this behavior is part of the reason he was not selected (he also could not perform the duty requirements of the job). His behaving like this is not going to get us to reconsider him. What would you say to him to get him to stop?

    2. HisGirlFriday*

      I would tell him one final time, ‘I cannot answer these questions or help you. You need to apply for other open positions AND you need stop calling every day. If you continue to call, I will have to escalate this.’

      Is there anyway you can have his calls screened and sent to voicemail?

      1. The Anon Librarian*

        I’d say this and then I would stop answering his calls. You have been way to nice here. You need to be blunt and then move on. I’m sorry for you, because this has to be very irritating.

      2. Melody Pond*

        Agreed. I’d also consider letting him know that this behavior really hurts him as a candidate – perhaps mention that this behavior has effectively blacklisted him from your current company? Or, hint that that may be the case, if you can’t say so, directly?

        And if he’s really calling every single day, still… there’s a certain point where that becomes harassment, right? Like, enough to get the police involved? Not that you necessarily have to actually call the police, but again – a firmly worded, “If you continue contacting me, I’m going to file a report with the police” maybe?

        1. Melody Pond*

          Ha, I just realized that like literally every single sentence in there, ended with a question mark. I was meaning to suggest ideas, but also make it clear that I’m totally spitballing here, and don’t actually have any expertise in this area. :-P

    3. BigSigh*

      Why do you keep answering his calls? I just ignore the people I’m not interested in speaking with…

      1. HRChick*

        I guess I need to write down his number and tape it to the phone to not answer. I don’t have his number memorized.

        I will make sure to jot it down next time he calls!

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      You’ll be doing him such a favor if you’re direct with him because he’s probably doing this to other employers and hurting his chances with them too. You could say something like, “I need to ask you to stop calling. We don’t have time to take calls of this sort, and it’s taking us away from other work.” If you’re comfortable with it, you could add, “Can I give you some feedback that might help? When you call companies so frequently like this, it will usually make them hesitant to hire you, because it’s considered outside of normal professional boundaries. I’m worried it may be hurting your chances with other companies and strongly suggest you not do it.”

    5. HR Bee*

      I am also in HR, and stuff like this is a major reason why I let voicemail screen my calls. Sheesh.

      I would ignore him. As in, don’t pick up or return his calls. It might take a few weeks but eventually he’ll get sick of it and stop (hopefully.)

    6. Raia*

      You can’t say something like after receiving so many calls from you, we will never be considering you for any positions now or in the future? I’m not in HR so I’m speculating, but at this point the candidate has proven that he’d would not fit the culture of sane employees. Because sane employees don’t do what he’s doing, even if they are desperate for an income.

  105. GoingDeaf*

    Office manager and an executive have been having a shouting match for almost an hour. They’re not even angry. They just aren’t capable of turning the volume down. Or closing the door. AHHHH!

    1. Elizabeth West*

      I would get up and close the door myself without a word, but I have no f*cks to give, LOL.*

      *It’s true; I took a Buzzfeed quiz and it said not one single f*ck.

  106. Anon and on and on*

    My manager and their manager were both been fired last week. The head of the division explained that it had to do with favoritism and retaliation. A chance had been given but no changes were made. The division head then apologized for not having seen it sooner and promised to not rush in finding replacements so that the company could ensure the right cultural mindset.

    I’m really excited to work for a company (for the first time!) that actually takes these reports seriously and will be appropriately transparent after the fact. The apology is the cherry on top!

    1. Argh!*

      Wow! My boss & her boss need to go but I’m not holding my breath. It’s good to hear that somewhere out there is someone who wants to do the right thing.

  107. Anon today...and tomorrow*

    So…my husband had an interview on May 9th. It was an internal position. His boss, grand boss and great grand boss all put in the good word for him. He interviewed and he says it went well. They told him that they wanted the position filled by the end of the month and would be doing second interviews in about 2 weeks. Two weeks is this coming Tuesday. He has not heard anything back from them. He also noticed this week that the position was posted on Indeed.
    I want him to get this job. It’s more money, less headache, more in line with his skills and what he wants to be doing.
    On top of this, his boss at the current position has just announced he’s taking a new position with the company himself. The staff at the location he works is freaking out about the replacement manager and have already started their job searches. If the staff leaves my husband would end up being left having to cover or finding coverage for the staff leaving.
    Am I reading too much into the fact that he hasn’t gotten a call yet, that the position is now posted on a job board? Or am I reading this accurately as “it’s not gonna happen”?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      No way to know.

      I think it’s almost human nature to assume the worst. I hold on to Alison’s advice, apply and forget. He can look at other opportunities out there and he can think about how he will prepare if the worst does happen at his current company.

  108. Not Karen*

    Getting really frustrated with a coworker. She’s technically “above” me (in technical skills, not managerial) but was hired more recently and isn’t full-time on this project (I am). Whenever she encounters a term with which she’s unfamiliar, instead of asking me or someone else who’s been involved with the project for longer what it means, she looks it up herself and presents what she’s found, and then is pretentiously defensive about it. Like, I appreciate the effort, but you don’t have to tell me what this word means, I already know, I’ve been using it for two years…

    1. HannahS*

      Oooh that’s annoying. It drives me up the wall when people do that for regular English too. But it’s so hard to address, because I never felt like I could say, “I ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE LONG WORDS MEAN” because apparently reads as immature. Anyway, I realized that giving a benevolent smile and saying, “Yes, that’s correct,” as if charmed by a precocious student very clearly says, “Yes, I know” without screaming it.

  109. Callalily*

    Can anyone give me some perspective on how it looks to have dropped out of university?

    I completed a 3 year advanced diploma at my local college in 2014 (sadly it doesn’t count as a 3 year degree!) and went straight into bookkeeping work. After a year I enrolled in distance classes with a good university to get a 4 year Bachelor of Business Administration. I don’t need a bachelors to find gainful employment in my hometown; I just wanted one for my own ego and future possibilities if I chose to move to a big city.

    The first year was fun and fueled by adrenaline; I completed a 60% course load (while working full time) with straight A’s. The second year was worse… I did 40% the first semester and got a D then 20% the second semester and flunked my only class.

    In my second year my father became very sick. He was hospitalized the day before I took my first exam in the first semester (hence the D, couldn’t focus) and he was hospitalized 3 times in my second semester (I skipped the final exam and took the F because he was again hospitalized just before the exam).

    I have determined that I cannot work full time and take evening university classes at this point in my life; I want to spend time with my father while he still has some left. I also want my evenings/weekends back so I can have a life and pursue my real passions; not study and do homework for a piece of paper I don’t need or want.

    I am also looking for a new job that would reduce my commute so I can get more time in my day… I currently have this degree listed on my resume with an ‘incomplete’ where the year should go and a note underneath stating ’93 of 120 credits earned’. Below this is my diploma.

    I feel that it looks bad to have an incomplete degree showing; especially if I reveal that I am not going to complete it. But then I also want some recognition for the credits I did earn above and beyond my college diploma. I’m just worried that it’ll raise a big red flag that I am a quitter or not intelligent enough – even if I explain the reasons in an interview most would assume that it is an excuse because everyone always has a story about a dying relative.

    Any advice?

    1. The Anon Librarian*

      I think you have to decide if you are at the point in your life where your work history is more crucial than your degrees. There is a point where a history of achievement matters more than if you completed college. Since I don’t know much about bookkeeping, I can’t speak to when that happens.

    2. Undine*

      You can certainly leave the degree off completely. As Alison says, your resume is a marketing document, not a complete life history. If you believe the courses you completed would help you, you could put them as “additional coursework in”.

      I almost wrote meerkatting document. Now that would be awesome!

    3. Thlayli*

      Honestly if you didn’t finish a course it shouldn’t be on your resume at all. Incomplete courses are irrelevant as they are neither qualification nor experience. It’s just a gap in your resume you need to explain. Your explanation is reasonable so just take it off the resume and explain the gap at interview or in cover letter as appropriate.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      It sounds like you got an associate’s degree? If so, then you can list that.

      In the long run, it’s really not that big a deal. I had a similar story. I put the associate’s on my resume and skipped the rest of the story. Finally I completed my bachelor’s and I was able to add that on.

      My big surprise when I returned to college was that I found there were many, many people who did not complete their degree. Decide not to let this worry get big on you, take what you have and use it to the max.

  110. Arnie*

    I left my last job a year and a half ago after 10 years. It was a mid-size nonprofit in a small field. Only now am I starting to come to realize just how much crazy stuff happened while I was there.

    Three (THREE!) women I’ve worked with have had husbands arrested for possession of child pornography. One of them was also charged with… I won’t even say it, but suffice to say it was sexual in nature and truly awful and there were pictures. His wife chose to stand by her man and it was awful enough that she lost her job over it, even though she had nothing to do with it.

    One of our staff members was run over by her own vehicle as she was locking the gate to leave. She broke her femur and several ribs and had to be rescue-flighted to the nearest hospital.

    Twice, our volunteers quit en masse and went to the newspaper, who did a big expose on us. (Every local organization in our industry got this treatment at some point, we weren’t the only org to get this wonderful experience.)

    Two executive directors were fired.

    We were profiled in a national magazine for our (mis)handling of a case (this one we totally deserved).

    I’m sure there are more things that I’m just not thinking of. I’m only now realizing how truly insane all this was. This doesn’t happen in normal companies, right????

    2. Not So NewReader*

      There is a common thread through all this. My guess would be there is corruption at the top of company.

  111. Outta Here*

    I had an interview yesterday that I think went pretty well! I’m hoping for news today…it’s so hard to be patient!

    They are on a tight timeline so I think worst case if I dont hear by the end of next week it’s not going to happen.

    Maybe some more applications will help me focus…

    1. AmyinTX*

      I just noticed your comment above mine. Good luck, I’m struggling with patience myself!

    2. Outta Here*

      I HEARD BACK WITH GOOD NEWS!!!!! So exciting! Now to use Alison’s tips on salary negotiation! Wish me luck!

      !!!!!<—to go with the other 8 already conveying my excitement. Hahaha

  112. AmyinTX*

    I am so nervous! I am supposed to hear back from an internal recruiter regarding my candidacy for my dream job today. I’ve gone through 6 interviews, talking with the recruiter and the hiring manager and some potential teammates. It was a very challenging interview process and no matter the outcome, I’m proud of my performance and know it’s not personal if I get rejected. But the anticipation is killing me!

  113. Anon advice seeker*

    Is there anyone here who has earned a Ph.D. (preferably in the humanities) and then successfully made the switch to another career?

    I finished my degree fairly recently. I realized pretty early in writing my dissertation that I no longer wanted to pursue an academic job as a professor. I decided that I still wanted to finish my degree, but that while I was doing that, I’d also take side jobs to gain experience doing other things, excel at these jobs as best I could, and rely on this cache of recent work experience and enthusiastic references when I began searching for a full-time position.

    The good news is that this approach seems to have made me a pretty competitive candidate: I get phone interviews for a high percentage of applications I submit and regularly move forward to the finals rounds of interviewing and reference checking. The bad news is that I’ve been searching for almost 18 months now with no offers. I feel like I’ve done most of the obvious things to improve my chances: I’ve read through all the advice on this site and in Alison’s guides, I’ve met with a career counselor to look over my application materials and tweak some aspects of my interviewing skills, and I’ve attended workshops and meetups where I’ve met new contacts and added new skills to my resume. When I’ve gotten feedback about jobs that I’ve narrowly missed, it seems like the decision has come down to tiny factors outside my control (like in one case, a staff job at a university hired one of their own graduates, and in another, I was told that there wasn’t a key thing that distinguished the person they chose and that everyone involved in hiring thought I would have been great in the position as well).

    I’m getting pretty drained from all this and am starting to feel crazy because I keep doing the same things and hoping for a different outcome. So, if anyone here has been through a similar situation, I’d love advice or commiseration: is this just a normal part of a career transition? Is there some strategy I’m missing that has worked for you? (FWIW, I’m very familiar with resources more tailored to my situation, like VersatilePhD, but thought I’d tap into this community as well, as I’m a regular reader).

    1. The Anon Librarian*

      When I see someone with a PhD applying for a non-PhD required position, the major thought I have is, “Why do you want this rather than to be a professor?”

      Perhaps I have known too many very very bitter people who had PhDs, became librarians and were a misery to work with, but that’s always the question in the back of my mind. Assuming you are addressing it well, I’m not sure what else you can do.

      1. Anon advice seeker*

        Yeah, I think that’s a fair question for an interviewer to have, so I always think carefully about how to address it. I usually admit that I’m not as driven by academic research/the isolated life of a researcher as one needs to be to be a professor but that I really enjoy working with students/administrative work (or whatever is relevant to the position I’m applying for) and so am moving in a different direction, and I usually point to my other work experience I’ve pursued to show that I’m genuine about this.

        In the feedback from my last job rejection, they did say they were impressed with my positive attitude, so I guess I’m coming across well. But thanks for your thoughts!

        1. Manders*

          How do you feel about teaching high school? Private high schools LOVE PhDs like you who enjoy working with students but don’t feel a constant drive to do advanced research.

          Community colleges also like PhDs who put a lot of effort into teaching, and their tenure processes aren’t usually as grueling.

          You may get some flak from your department for taking a non-university job, and once you leave the university system, it’s going to be very hard if not impossible to get back in. But the PhDs I know who like teaching found ways to do that outside universities and they’re much happier now.

          1. Anon advice seeker*

            This is a good thought. I haven’t really explored the high school teaching route, but it might be worth looking into. I don’t have as much teaching experience as some Ph.D.s (fortunately I had generous funding, so I never needed to do it to pay the bills), so I think I’ve assumed that I wouldn’t be very competitive. But I certainly have some, as well as lots of experience working with students in support roles, so I could revisit the idea. Thanks!

    2. Tau*

      I’ve done the PhD-to-career switch, but in STEM – maths to software – so it was pretty different and I’m not how useful my situation would be for you? My main advice would be to do with things like ensuring you address your career switch in your cover letter and having a good explanation for it in the interview, but since you’re getting as far as you are it really doesn’t sound like that’s the problem.

      Honestly, it does sound like you’re doing everything right and have just had bad luck so far. Hang in there! I’m rooting for you!

      1. Tau*

        OH YEAH one thing: I’ve often found that academia-adjacent jobs value PhDs relatively highly compared to completely detached ones (for lack of a better word). So I’ve had a lot of luck applying to tech jobs attached to research institutes and the like, whereas in interviews for jobs at places that have no connection to higher ed at all I often feel like the PhD is viewed as more of a disadvantage I need to explain away. That may be something to keep in mind.

        1. Anon advice seeker*

          Yeah, I think you’re definitely right about this. I’ve mostly focused my search on staff positions in higher ed and museums, since this is where most of my work experience has been, and I’ve had pretty good responses to applications in these areas. But these are fields that are also super competitive, so I’m sure that’s playing into my not getting hired.

          Anyway, I appreciate your good thoughts!

  114. Jessica*

    Question – how do you measure your weekly output and do you aim for a certain number of deliverables? I’m struggling to keep my focus as the end of the fiscal year comes up and my workload is piling higher and higher. I generally aim for five “things” and now I’m down to three.

    1. JulieBulie*

      It sounds as though you might benefit from weighting your deliverables. That is, some deliverables are bigger/more complicated than others. If you usually finish five things a week but are now doing only three, are we talking about five and three of the same thing? Or five small things vs three big things?

      1. Jessica*

        Good idea, I might – some big projects are slowing me down, but the three things I completed this week were short, easy things. I need to get my head back in ‘the game!’

  115. Anon for this*

    How do you figure out when you’ve put enough time into a job and it’s time to cut your losses and move on? I was hired to build a new function at my organization – I’m in the central office, and run a shared services function (let’s call it Teapot Analysis) to be used by other parts of the organization. I discovered pretty quickly that nobody who understood Teapot Analysis had anything to do with creating this department’s existence. There’s a lot of much more fundamental, foundational things that are missing, and as a result Teapot Analysis is more or less impossible as envisioned.

    I’ve been here almost three years and have spent that time trying my best to make it work. The last straw for me has been that a budget request that was supposed to pay for a consultant to help us build the foundation that was missing has been pending for nine months now, and I’m no longer convinced it’s even going to happen. I’m burned out and losing hope. I LOVE my boss and he is very supportive, but he’s not in a position to make the changes that need to happen, and the people who are are more concerned with other things than Teapot Analysis.

    This would be a huge feather in my cap if I could execute it successfully, but I strongly suspect the whole thing was set up to fail from the beginning – not intentionally, but nobody realized that things needed to be in place that weren’t! How long is it reasonable to stick it out and keep trying before I bail out?

    1. The Anon Librarian*

      I think once you start asking yourself, “How long do I have to stick with this” then you pretty much have answered your own question. The answer for me would be, “How much more emotional energy can you devote to this?” and “Do you realistically think this will happen in two years? Three?”

      Then and only then can you make your decision.

    2. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

      From the business side:
      How much change have you seen in three years? How much time (realistically) and effort do you think it would take to implement the changes you need? How much buy-in would you need from management/higher-ups, and what would it take for you to get it?

      From the personal side:
      Could you stand to spend the time it would take to implement all of the above? Are you still enthused about >50% of it? If not, I would say it’s time to move on. It’s not fitting you or helping you grow in a positive way any more.

  116. The Anon Librarian*

    A question for my fellow librarians, I currently work in a small academic library in the Special Collection and Archives Department. There’s no promotion path at my current job, unless I leave Special Collections and Archives work which I don’t want to do. So, while I love my job, I have been passively job hunting.

    Here’s the conundrum that I can’t seem to sort. I make a very nice salary where I am and I’ve seen jobs I would like to apply for, but the salary is way too low. Some of these jobs contain the language, “Commensurate With Experience” and then list a salary such as 45,000. How much movement can you expect in Academic libraries when they use that language? Five thousand? Ten? Two? Does anyone have a good feel for this?

    I do not want to apply and waste either my time or theirs. I have been on hiring committees, but at my current job, we have no salary wiggle room. What we offer is our best offer, but we don’t use this “commensurate with experience” language in our ads.

    1. EmilyG*

      Hm, I’m not sure I’ve seen “commensurate with experience” and an actual number in the same ad. I’ve always sarcastically read it to mean “low enough that we’re embarrassed to divulge it” or “according to an arcane, secret schedule.” Do you know anyone at those libraries who could tell you what system they use? That would be my first step. And given that your search is passive right now, I’d skip any where the listed salary is more than, say, 10% lower than what you’re looking for. They have to be aware of the possibility of turning people off by listing a low salary.

      1. The Anon Librarian*

        I’ve seen it three times now, so I am not sure what to make of it. I agree with you that it is a weird phrasing.

      2. HR Bee*

        Slightly off topic but our CEO insists on putting “commensurate with experience” in ads and it absolutely means “as low as we can possibly get away with.” Drives me nuts. That’s just this one case, though.

        1. AJaya*

          That’s how I tend to read it as well. “We want to lowball a rockstar candidate that we know we can’t really afford”

    2. Rosamond*

      OK, I have direct experience in your specific situation, both on the job hunting side and on the hiring side. I’m not sure what jobs you’re looking at, but to make a significantly higher salary in academic libraries, you’ll likely have to move into a management role (if you want to stay in special collections, that probably just means going to a larger library where the special collections staff is bigger). There is not a ton of wiggle room in salary with entry-level academic librarian jobs. The high-to-low range is likely a difference of around $10-$15k, but maybe you could get a little more if you’re a rockstar. There’s a wider range as you go up the chain, partly because the pool of qualified people is smaller, so you have more negotiating power.

  117. Anonafriday*

    Has anyone ever worked at a place where staff salaries were reduced because of a title review? I was in a senior team meeting and our COO announced that they and hr are reviewing job descriptions and department and budget sizes. Part of the potential fallout would be moving some people in and out of offices and adjusting salaries up and down.
    I supervise someone who might be affected. Said person only supervises one person but has been here 10 plus years and is very effective. And could easily find another position. Any advice welcomed.

    1. Emmie*

      I have not been in a place where they’ve lowered salaries to my knowledge. I’ve seen a few overpaid coordinators / admins before who’ve capped out of their salary band.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Be firm with your boss, tell her that if this person’s salary is reduced then the company will lose him. Be prepared to say why this is a serious loss if he leaves.

  118. Tim*

    I’m about to go on a week and a half vacation at an extremely inconvenient time for work – I’m the person who manages a set of training-related accounts and there’s some important regulatory stuff due at the end of the month, plus a vendor has decided that right now is a great time to cross-train a dozen people on our account.

    My boss says he’ll handle everything while I’m gone, since he also has access to the accounts. But I REALLY do not trust him on this (he doesn’t know nearly as much about it as he thinks he does, and the last time he touched these accounts he majorly screwed up), and I don’t think we’re going to get everything done properly by the end of the month unless I monitor it while on vacation. I’m definitely not expected to, and that’s nice and all, but I’m probably going to anyway. What do you think I should do?

    1. Jules the First*

      Go on vacation, let your boss handle everything. Don’t monitor it. The only way your boss will learn that he doesn’t know as much as he thinks he does is if he is allowed to do it and suck….

      The alternative is that you go on holiday, monitor it, fix his mistakes, and end up having to do this every. single.
      time. you go on holiday, thereby ruining every holiday you will ever have with this job. (Why yes, I might be speaking from experience here….)

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Agreed.

        My boss knows she needs me on certain things. We developed ways of dealing with stuff when I am not there, so when I come back I can do the work. It took a while for us to hammer out this system. We had to find the spots she did not like/want; then we had to find work-arounds for each spot. And we had to find a way to organize the information so she could just “put it in a pile” until I came back.

        You can’t start this process until the boss realizes there is a need. Let your boss find out.

  119. ToxicWaste*

    Has anyone ever had an overly competitive boss? I think it was just his personality, but it’s the only way my boss at toxic job would respond to something. I was talking about how my boss at my old job was taking classes and toxic boss would interrupt and say, “I’m going back to school!” He also did this if he found out that I complimented a co-worker or said, “Good job!” In the middle of my work, he would bark, “Good job!” at me.

    It was really weird.

  120. Potential PM*

    Project managers: how do you break in?

    I’ve come to the conclusion that it is time for me to be doing something else for work. (I used to be able to pick up contracts weeks after the end of a job; it’s now stretched to months, mostly because I’m super experienced and therefore expensive for what I do.) I’ve been managing projects in most of my jobs for the last twenty years or so, including a stint as a product manager. I’m good at it, I like it, and most importantly there are FTE project management positions out there.

    I’m considering one of the many project management certification programs in a nearby urban area as a route into a PM job (and to learn about stuff that I never learned because all my project management skills were learned on the job), but there are so, so many of them, and they all vary wildly on hours required and how expensive they are. I have no idea which ones are considered good. I’d be paying for all of my education on my own, so I want to make sure I’m picking the right program.

    PMs, any advice? This is a longer-term plan (I’m thinking 2-3 years to make the transition) but I’d like to get started on it now. For the moment, I’m doing research and looking into some inexpensive online courses as a way to make sure that this is a direction I really want to go in.

    1. Jan*

      In my line of work, at least, it’s much more important that you have strong work experience and the key certifications — there’s no need to take formal university courses, all you really need is the PMP (and whatever other specialized certifications might apply). It sounds like you’d have no problem meeting the hours-of-experience requirement for the PMP, so you may want to look for “boot camps” in your area (basically, 1-week intensive cram sessions for the PMP exam) and then go sit for the exam.

      As to how you break into project management work — honestly, most of us come from all kinds of odd backgrounds. The common theme is usually taking charge of some small projects, then working up to larger ones, then getting a certification or two and leveraging that into a full-time position. Look for jobs that ask for a PMP in their list of desired qualifications; the job title itself is often not “Project Manager”, but the skills are pretty universal.

      Hope that helps – good luck!

      1. Potential PM*

        Sadly, after looking over the requirements to sit for the PMP exam, I don’t have nearly enough documentable hours in the last 8 years. (The vast majority of my recent PM experience was sort of under the table–I was doing most of the PM work, but someone else was officially the PM for that series of projects, and I know that person well enough to know that he’d never sign off that he’d delegated most of his work on those projects to me. Long story. That company has a weird culture where contractors are concerned.)

        I suspect I’m going to need to obtain a certificate and hopefully use that to wrangle my way into a junior PM job where I can gather the hours requirements.

        1. Jan*

          I wouldn’t sell yourself so short on the recent work: even if it wasn’t your official job title, if you feel that work experience was related to project management in a significant way — whether that means managing schedules or budgets or QA’ing deliverables — that definitely counts! That’s why PMI has you describe what you were doing in each role.

          If you’restill at loose ends, CAPM might be a stepping-stone option for you — that’s an intermediate certification from PMi showing you understand the fundamentals of project management fundamentals, but don’t have the hours for the PMP. It’s a bit less well known, but shows you’re thinking seriously and taking initiative to train up your skills.

    2. Thlayli*

      Find out if your company has any training. I worked as a PM for about a year or two before my company finally stumped up the money to pay for me to do a course. Make your case to your employer about why you getting a course would benefit THEM. That’s the only way to get it paid for.

      1. Potential PM*

        Sadly, the last time I worked for a company that had training benefits was about twelve years ago, and even then it was made very clear that the training benefits were Not For Us, they were for developers to learn new skills and VPs to get their MBAs so they could become SVPs. Whatever I end up doing, I’m going to pay for it myself.

        1. Thlayli*

          In that case I think your best bet is to look into what types of qualification is most requested in your field. Different industries use different types of PM.

  121. Brave One*

    I contested my performance review this week! I’ve never done anything like that but I’ve also never reported to this bad of a manager before, either. Our raises are tied to our performance reviews so even getting $100 more is really $1,000 more over ten years (assuming I can put up with this place that long). Wish me luck!

  122. Kobayashi*

    I have a new manager who is somewhat of a micromanager. She’s new to managing, herself. Any tips to dealing with this?

    1. LCL*

      Explain the process of the job to her. New managers sometimes micromanage because they are trying to make sense of it all and pick up on the detail that makes most sense to them. Sometimes that detail is critical, sometimes it is trivial but they don’t know that yet.

      Here’s hoping she is just new and not a micromanager by nature.

    2. Anon Anon*

      How were you manged in the past?

      I know that I’ve managed a couple of people who thought I was a micromanager, largely because they hadn’t been managed at all in the past. So when I started asking questions or asking for an update, they felt that I was micromanaging versus actually managing.

      1. Kobayashi*

        Definitely a bit more hands off. The new manager asks for frequent updates, tells us to “be sure to do” things that are fairly basic, so it ends up coming across as a bit insulting considering we’re higher level folks (think Director level with qualifying degrees and decades of experience). The manager also schedules meetings up the wazu for status updates (with everyone under the sun), suggests we go to other meetings with other departments just to have a presence (though our presence may be superfluous), wants to see everything before it goes out (and have us copy other people), so the review process now takes twice as long. Any one or two thing in isolation would be reasonable, but certainly the entirety of it is taking some getting used to. The few of us that are on the direct supervisory path are definitely feeling it. I’m trying to decide if this truly micromanaging or we’re just being resistant to a change in management style.

  123. Addison*

    I just got a new file clerk after several months of us trying to find someone who would be the right fit and I’m really loving this gal for the weirdest reason. She’s super organized and asks lots of questions, genuinely seems to be engaged and interested in the work, and hasn’t complained or done anything “wrong” since she started the week before last, so that’s great. But my thing is more that she’s my age (25, I’m 26) and hasn’t been in the workforce for very long, so she kind of has a “vibe” that makes her seem younger, since she hasn’t had very long to build a “professional” demeanor yet (not to say that she’s UNprofessional, but her age definitely shows a little bit). She seems to be the type that’s easily impressed, so it’s such a huge 180 from my last file clerk, who was also my same age but had been here a year longer than me and was a big huge massive unbelievable jerk. A little bit ago I was saying “ugh, I need to stop messing around and focus, I’m so off my game this morning!” kind of offhandedly and she was like “what? no way, you’re so on it, you’re always so on top of everything” and went on for basically a full minute about how wicked efficient I am, etc. She’s sweet like that all the time, too, like saying how “seriously so impressive” I am as a person for being able to lose a bunch of weight since the beginning of the year and sticking to eating healthy etc. I’ve seen her do it to other people too, with personal observations and also work-related things. It’s just really nice to have a fresh pair of eyes that aren’t completely jaded, because that’s a pretty common thing in my office – we get worked to the bone and pressure is high so it’s really easy to fall into the pit of cynicism.

    She’s supposed to be temp-to-hire and, like the last file clerk, I’m sort of indirectly responsible for training/supervising/delegating her and her work. I want to give feedback to our boss to the tune of “we should keep her, she’s good people” both because of her great work ethic and her personality, but I’m not sure how to phrase the latter part other than to say more or less exactly what I said above (does good work, is engaged, really nice??)… hopefully it goes over well? It feels like a weird thing to be taken in by, but after the butthead I worked with before, someone *nice* is just. So wonderful.

    1. LQ*

      I’d focus on things like “asks good questions” and the always nebulous but important “works well with others” and I did give someone a compliment (well I told their supervisor) “I asked her to do the same horrible boring task, and then I made her do it again, and then again, and then again and then again…and she never once complained, she was just as happy to do it the 15th time as the first.” (That was a HUGE deal to me on that project. I would rather have had a slightly incompetent noncomplainer than a hyper competent complainer.) Being able to show examples of things is really good to.

    2. Mints*

      I think a lot of the stuff you said is good, leaving out anything age related (assume this is just her personality and she won’t get worse over time) and leaving out the personal compliments. Just like gets along with everyone, asks good questions, does the tedious work without complaint, encouraging to coworkers

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Never underestimate how much being pleasant lubricates the workplace.

      You could say she brings a positive attitude to the work group.

  124. Lynne879*

    I finally decided that I want to leave my weekend job, but I’m at a loss as to what jobs I should be looking at to replace it that would pay me the same wage.

    I work in sales at a furniture store, but I don’t want to work as another sales person (Mostly because I would be on commission; my current job is paid hourly). I’ve thought about going back into retail, but not only would I be paid less than what I make now, but I feel like I would just be going “backwards”- I’ve been there and done that with retail, I don’t want to be in that environment anymore.

    My friend suggested I could be a weekend secretary somewhere, and while that’s a possibility, I’m just not good at customer service.

    I’ve also been suggested to work from home doing online jobs, but everything I see I feel under qualified (I’ve mostly been looking at administrative stuff), so I feel like it would just be a huge waste of my time applying if I know I don’t have enough experience to get even a temp job.

    Does anyone have advice for someone who wants to quit a job, but doesn’t know what they should be looking for?

    1. LQ*

      What are you good at? What are your hobbies? Where are your skills? What skills are you willing to invest time in? Why do you need the second job? What are you willing to do? Do you want it to be a job that turns into a full time/career or just something for a little extra cash?

  125. New fed judiciary EE*

    So Im about to start a new job with the federal public defenders office. I’m feeling a little imposter syndrome as I’ve been home with my kids for three years and didn’t expect to be hired quickly into such a good job. What can I expect as a federal employee? Also, the health insurance benefits aren’t as good as I was expecting. My husband’s non-profit cost is lower. Any tips for a mom returning to work after an extended period?

    1. Tabby Baltimore*

      A probationary period of anywhere from 1-to-2 years. Probably a fair amount of required annual training (e.g., anti-sexual harassment, information security, necessary legal re-certifications related to your field, etc.). Strict time/attendance rules (e.g., can’t use PTO during the same pay period in which you earned it; most agencies in the federal government take time card fraud VERY SERIOUSLY). Less-than-optimal (i.e., limited food choices, not always very healthy ones at that) agency cafeterias seem to be standard for government offices, for some reason. Your workplace probably won’t have much for office supplies, so be prepared to buy and bring in your own … and keep them under lock and key (assuming you even have a key to your desk; most desk keys seem to have been lost years ago). One mid-point performance review and one end-of-year performance review. That’s about all I can think of, off the top of my head. Welcome aboard, and best of luck to you.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      In my state PDs are going through a lot of changes. It’s confusing and that is an understatement. Be prepared for “Do A, B and C” on Monday and then on Tuesday you hear “NEVER, ever do A, B and C”.
      Write these things down with the date on which you were told. Try to stay current, but don’t get upset if you can’t. Look around to see how others are doing.
      Hang tough. Give yourself six months to just get through the learning curve and start to feel like it might make sense later on… sometime…

  126. AnonForThis*

    How do you determine what the nearest thing to your job title is if you’re in a specific industry and not necessarily wanting to stay in it? My position is termed “process management” but I’m not sure that matches what most people would consider process management. I work in a call center, my job is to check over the work of new hires to ensure it is done correctly and to confirm with our vendors that their copies of work orders and ours are the same. I’d like to look for jobs that would work for my experience but I’m honestly not even sure where to start looking.

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      Sounds like something about Quality Control/Assurance would be a good description of your job.

    2. LQ*

      I’d agree about QA. At our place that person is generally called a Specialist. They are usually promoted after started in the call center so it isn’t a job we hire directly for.

      I’d also suggest looking at jobs with audit in the title. Not fancy official Auditors but I’ve definitely seen some positions that do similar things with audit in the title.

  127. motherofdragons*

    Anyone see the story about IBM giving remote workers in some divisions the option to start working at a regional office or leave the company? http://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2017/05/come-into-the-office-or-quit-ibm-says.html?ana=e_bizw&u=Nn%2Bxrc1pWlFJ0%2FEGQVBE8Q0726db8f&t=1495209316&j=78209761

    I found it interesting, since the article says that just convened a panel which described the benefits of teleworking. Apparently IBM thinks that more heads physically under one roof = more innovation. Curious to know what others think about this move.

    1. Bad Candidate*

      A friend’s husband was affected by this. I don’t know the whole story but it would have involved moving to a different city. He ended up finding a new job that paid better.

      1. motherofdragons*

        Good for him! I feel for the people who work miles and cities away from the nearest on-site location (and why wouldn’t people, if teleworking was originally on the table?).

    2. NacSacJack*

      Yes. I heard about this a few months back from an IBM employee. I believe it is related to the Agile methodology/team operations thought-process. Agile teams work by sitting everyone on the team together. My company is about to embark on the Agile methodology/paired programming/agile teams path. Imagine my surprise this week when shown the new workspace, I inquired who uses the video conferencing rooms and was told that if you are part of an agile team in multiple locations, you sit in the video conference room and that is your desk. You do not get a desk out in the open plan office.

  128. suspiciouscat*

    I’ve read Alison’s blog for a long time, and know the advice is generally don’t think about raises until the one year mark. However, in my profession, the industry standard is that pay increases on each qualification anniversary. For me, this will happen right when the annual pay reviews are. Unfortunately due to this timing (I will have been at my current employer for 10 months at that point) I will not be considered for a pay increase despite my increase in qualification. For what its worth, I am consistently told I am performing at an advanced level for my years of experience so its upsetting that my work quality is being recognised but I won’t be rewarded accordingly due to a blanket policy/my poor timing in joining at the wrong time of year.

    Money is already tight; I really enjoy my job but am now feeling really demoralised by this policy which means I will be being paid a lot less than market for my experience. Does anyone have any tips on how I can bounce back from this and keep my morale up over the next year?

  129. Question*

    If the site rules say to take their letter writer at their word and to believe them, why don’t more people listen and question letter writers anyway? I really feel for Alison when it happens because she works so hard on this site and people don’t listen, especially when she asks people to stop and they don’t.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      Yeah, I feel bad for letter writers when I see this happening, too, especially when it’s a lot of people at once. I think it’s hard for people to just accept when something strikes them as off, and some of the letters that are published are really unusual situations, or situations where people have strong emotional reactions. In the case of the former, you get the whole “is this letter fake?” indignation (which honestly I don’t understand, but it’s clearly widespread). And in the case of the latter, I think it’s the very natural human behavior of coming to a decision and then trying to reason one’s way to that outcome.

      I said in the post yesterday that if I’m replying directly to a letter writer I try and frame things the way I would if the question came from a good friend. Sometimes that means not saying anything at all, but I think the world (and this website) will manage to keep on spinning without my brilliant insight now and again.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Yeah, it’s pretty remarkable (and frustrating, especially when it’s regular commenters). I’m just going to start being more aggressive about moderating those comments out, I think, and putting repeat offenders on moderation or banning them entirely. It’s hard to do it without looking unfair though — because I don’t always see everything (or have time to deal with everything) so it will end up getting enforced unevenly.

      1. Fake Eleanor*

        One thing that may help: I suspect the transition will be the hardest part, and things will settle back down once your new enforcement actions have been in place for a while and people understand that there are (likely) consequences to breaking the commenting rules.

    3. S.*

      Occasionally I’ll see a letter that I don’t 100% believe, but my strategy is to just not comment on those. It turns out it is actually possible to keep your opinions to yourself, regardless of how strong they might be.

      1. Caledonia*

        It’s like what your parents used to tell you ‘if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.’

        Also, I read the site alot but only regularly comment in the open threads because I’m not American and therefore my norms and the majority of the commenters/LW’s are totally different.

      2. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

        There was one I specifically did not comment on recently because I just didn’t feel like the details added up. However, crazy things happen and just because I felt like it was highly unlikely doesn’t mean it didn’t happen as presented. So I just keep my thoughts to myself. I try to keep in mind how unbelievably awful it would be to need advice on a horrible and weird situation and just have an entire comment section debating whether you were truthful rather than giving you help.

    4. Triangle Pose*

      While I agree with your general sentiment, I have to say I was disappointed in the commenters reaction to points made by Divorce attorney’s, Sunny-dee and Stellaaaa’s comments in the thread with OP Rachel. I take the OP at her word, but that does not extend to how divorce proceedings of third parties, how service of process works, the internal motivations of third parties and other systems that OP likely does not understand and for which she is getting limited information. As a lawyer and someone who is very familiar with these proceedings, I also had to bite my tongue and keep from saying “but that’s not how that works at all” because it was clear Alison didn’t want that or think it was helpful. The problem is that commenters were stating opinions and giving advice based on OP’s statements that were pretty misinformed. I also think many were refusing to acknowledge the ex-wife bashing, the red herring about OP’s child’s welfare (blaming the ex-wife for that) and the fact that OP’s getting her perspective on the entirety of the divorce proceedings from her limited involvement in being served and testifying or from the husband.

      Also, I think many were getting hung up on the ex-wife and what degree she was being “vindictive” which I didn’t think was helpful instead of expanding on why after so many years in an industry OP had only one person willing to give her a positive reference, why clients were so ready to believe OP and the husband had a fling on client time and why so many professional people (former employer, former coworkers, former clients, new company, new company’s HR, new company’s senior leadership) all readily accepted the ex-wife’s version. OP repeatedly said “bridges were burned” and “I had to leave with no notice” in response to valid questions. To be clear, I do not think OP is lying at all and I take her word for the things she could actually know and perceive (separate from how divorce proceedings and wage garnishment works, how service of process works, etc. all of which the commentter Divorce attorney covered very well in the initial post) but I get the sense something else is happening here that is causing OP Rachel to be in such unfortunate situation and it’s a valid point to bring it up.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        But there were other lawyers who came in later in the day who said it was perfectly plausible. In any case, saying “hmmm, in my experience that’s not how it would typically work because of X, Y, and Z, but maybe you’re in a place with different laws or practices” would make the point without telling her she was flat-out wrong, which some people were doing.

        My bigger concern, though, was that some commenters were acting as if they could cross-examine the OP or treat her hostilely, and that’s never okay here.

        Really, you can make almost any point you want in a constructive way. My issue is when people don’t bother to do that.

        1. Triangle Pose*

          Look, I agree that we should not cross examine OP but commenters were raising valid questions in the face of statements that didn’t really make much sense. I think the commentariat was bending too far backwards to not judge OP Rachel that that the group missed a few things that are red flags demonstrating that LW is not seeing things objectively herself and has pretty limited information for basing some of her conclusions. Alot of this was drowned out by comments about how vindictive and unhappy ex-wife is. I agree with Divorce attorney that reading all comments with the best of intent for her, I’m still really worried about the truthfulness behind what we know about her situation. I guess we just disagree about what’s cross examination and what’s ex-wife bashing.

          I didn’t follow every single comment but OP Rachel said “He went bankrupt as a result of the divorce. She went to court to make sure he didn’t get out of the settlement.” I did see lawyers chime in to say that’s now how divorce proceedings work – Divorce attorney also said getting in court court order for wage garnishment to ensure ex-wife gets her share of the marital assets and that ex-husband cannot escape it through bankruptcy is not vindictive or wrong. OP Rachel also said a bunch of things about the repo of the car, ex-wife accepting less money in total just to garnish wages and a few other items she could not have first hand knowledge of and knowing what I know of these proceedings, it’s very difficult to just accept it at her word when many, many people misunderstand these procedures. I didn’t see any lawyers say that you can “pay extra” to specifically serve someone while they are in a hospital room.

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            Here are comments from a lawyer saying exactly that:

            https://www.askamanager.org/2017/05/update-i-had-a-fling-with-my-new-bosss-then-husband.html#comment-1494741

            https://www.askamanager.org/2017/05/update-i-had-a-fling-with-my-new-bosss-then-husband.html#comment-1494758

            I don’t have any problem with people pointing out the things you’re talking about. I do have a problem with the comments that treated the OP with hostility or that called her a liar.

            Again, it’s about wanting people to be constructive in the way they talk to LWs.

            1. Triangle Pose*

              Both those comments are from one lawyer and PCBH also said “it’s not common for a process server to announce the subpoena or its content” which is another piece of what OP Rachel said which fueled a lot of hostile reactions to the ex-wife. I saw many other lawyers and process folks say the opposite.

              Agreed wholeheartedly on not engaging in hostility and calling OP a liar. I think we can agree to disagree on raising valid questions in the face of OP Rachel’s statements and the hostility and ex-fe bashing. This is your site and I respect that. I’m going to leave this now, here. Thank you Alison for engaging with our feedback, I truly appreciate it.

              1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                It’s one lawyer, but she’s proved herself pretty credible here. And that’s the point — things are done differently in different places, so insisting the OP can’t be right isn’t cool. And PCBH was saying it’s not common to announce it and thus she believed Rachel that the ex-wife had paid the person to do exactly that (because someone else was saying that announcing it was normal and not a big deal).

                Anyway, that’s my take :)

          2. Thlayli*

            I just wanted to chime in saying that it’s not necessarily true people missed red flags in the story. I think a lot of people probably did notice the red flags but chose not to point them out because of 1 the site rules and 2 empathy /sympathy for Rachel. I noticed a lot of what you have pointed out but I still only made positive comments to her because although she may not have told the whole story I still feel she deserves support.

      2. MegaMoose, Esq*

        I correct people’s statements of law pretty often when I feel reasonably confident doing so, but I also try and remember that old XKCD comic about not getting carried away because “someone is wrong on the internet”.

        2. Triangle Pose*

          It’s less about correcting someone being wrong on the internet and more about how advice can be unhelpful and irrelevant if you’re basing it on a description of facts that are just…wrong.

          1. MegaMoose, Esq*

            Sure, but I was thinking more that it’s about saying your piece and then walking away, rather than making multiple, increasingly frustrated comments.

          2. Ramona Flowers*

            Do you really think letter writers just want actionable practical advice?

            No. They want support, understanding, to be heard and validated.

            By all means ask gently if there may be other factors but saying things like ‘there must be a reason why people were so quick to believe she had an affair’? That’s so unnecessary.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I often wonder to myself does it even matter if the OP is lying? Why are we trying to figure out if the OP is lying or not.

      If the OP is telling the truth, then the OP got some good, solid, actionable advice. All is a good as can be expected.

      If OP is lying then that same good advice is going to be useless to the OP, because the OP has not accurately portrayed the situation. Meanwhile the rest of us learned something and enjoyed the sense of community. The lying OP, not so much.

      We win either way. Our day is richer and our minds are smarter.

      So I think it does not matter if the OP is lying or not.

      I had a boss who was convinced my subordinates were lying to me. (All of them? All the time? hmmm. I think not.) However, my boss thrived on upheaval and upset. I used to say, “If they are lying it will bubble to the surface. Meanwhile, I am giving good advice/good direction. The fact that they are lying is not MY failure. It’s theirs. I will not wear their emotions for them, I will continue to have a good day.”

  130. Manders*

    I just had to install an adblocker to do my job properly. Part of my work involves looking for information on local news sites, and it got to the point where my computer was unusable if I had 2 or 3 news sites open because of all the autoplaying ads. Adblock is telling me that it’s blocked 16 items on just one of the many pages I have open right now!

    The irony: I work in digital marketing. Making ads for local news sites is part of what my department does.

    What’s the equivalent of a marketer using adblock in your industry?

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Me three.
          Though AdBlock Plus is not working as well as it used to. And I still have to disable it if I want to see certain things because the websites detect it and won’t let me continue until I do.

    2. Rebecca*

      I hope it’s OK that I say this, and it’s not personal! I use an ad blocker, and I wouldn’t use one if sites presented ads differently. If a stationary ad appeared down the side of the page, or at the top and/or bottom, and didn’t “do” anything, I’d be OK with it. I use an ad blocker because I can’t stand trying to read something with auto play videos, flashing, blinking, whatever going on in 15 areas of the page. I also wish they were more locally targeted. Even if I saw something that I was interested in, I’d never click the link. I’d make a note and do a browser search separately to avoid a possible malware infection.

      1. Manders*

        It’s totally ok to say that! To be honest, a LOT of the ads I see on the internet are just awful. I’m sure they look like they get results if you care about clicks alone, but sometimes they’re not actually that valuable even if people are clicking on them because most of those clicks are accidental and people bounce right off the landing page.

        And hoo boy, do I have a lot to say about targeted advertising. I’m still being followed around the internet by ads for diamond engagement rings, even though I got married half a year ago and I’m very happy with my non-diamond ring. I totally get how I ended up in that audience segment but now I can’t seem to get out of it.

      3. Chaordic One*

        I certainly share your annoyance with many ads. I guess I have a crappy computer or crappy internet or something, but it always takes a few seconds for the darned ad to start and so I’m halfway down a page or into an article and then I get blasted by some ridiculous ad for a product that I would never purchase or use anyway.

        I use more than one browser and while I use one particular browser with Ad-Block for most things, I’ll open a different browser when I run into something that won’t display because of Ad-Block.

    3. Amadeo*

      I work in web and we use a lot of tracking software like Hotjar and Google Analytics. I install uBlock Origin and Ghostery on my browser as a matter of course. I suppose it helps that most of the views that show up when we check on sites I’ve worked on probably aren’t mine because of this, but I had to white list Hotjar’s home page so I could even view it, and review the behaviors it records.

      I suppose in our case I’m not our target demographic, traditionally speaking, but I’m willing to bet that there may be a lot of students who are savvy to these add-ons whose clicks and behavior we don’t get to see.

      1. Manders*

        Oh, that’s smart. I manually filtered my work IP address in Google Analytics and Hotjar, I could have saved myself a few steps. I only really work with one website right now, so it wasn’t too much of a hassle.

  131. Applesauced*

    It’s finally warm! Hooray!
    How do you all feel about sandals in the work place?
    In an office (so, no requirements for safety or closed toes shoes) I try to keep a least 40% of my foot covered; I have several pairs that work with this (self-imposed) guide, but what do you guys think?
    (Note: this isn’t an official policy and I’m in no place to make it so, just curious what others think and would wear themselves)

    1. ceiswyn*

      I wear sandals all the time, though they’re fairly solid ones rather than strappy.

      What is the thinking about avoiding sandals? Is it that feet are ugly, or a concern about foot-smell? Most of the heels I’ve seen people wear honestly seem to reveal as much foot as a sandal would.

      1. Say what, now?*

        We did have an incident here which lead to a no sandals rule. One of our coworkers had awfully pungent feet. It wasn’t that she was a gross person. She was otherwise pleasant smelling and well-groomed. The discussion about foot smell was so awkward that even though she left we still keep the rule in place so we don’t have to have it again.

    2. Kowalski! Options!*

      Things are pretty laid-back here at the Ministry of Teapots – so much so that some people were wearing sandals (mostly Birkenstocks) when there was still snow on the ground. We’ve got a long weekend coming up this weekend, and there are more than a few guys who are walking around in cargo shorts, t-shirts and Tevas, like they’re making a direct beeline to the cottage once work is done. Personally, I’m not bothered by sandals, but I do wonder about the shorts.

    3. Manders*

      I prefer closed-toe shoes because I don’t have to worry about showing my chipping nail polish (in the same way I prefer long blunt-cut bangs so I don’t have to worry about eyebrow grooming).

      I think sandals should be ok in a casual office–but you gotta be brutally honest with yourself about whether your toes are in good enough condition to be visible. I know a few people who like to rock sandals and the whole world has to see their severe toenail fungus.

      1. Venus Supreme*

        YES! You need to have nice feet when you wear them. I’d be mostly concerned with the length/healthiness of the toenails and the dead/cracked skin on the heels and sides. Nail polish is a personal preference, though I have polish on mine year-round.

        Also, my philosophy on sandals is that anything is a-ok except the flippy-floppy thong sandals. I’m thinking the $5 flip-flops you can get at Old Navy. Those aren’t professional enough, IMO.

      2. Emilia Bedelia*

        Agreed. I have disgusting toes that are utterly beyond repair, so I don’t wear sandals at work. No one needs to see my running blisters and toenail bruises.

    4. Mints*

      My office is fine with sandals; I think no flip flops. The more shoe like, the more conservative, but also a T strap sandle is more conservative than strappy gladiator types.

      I think fungus toes are gross, but just dry skin or “normal human colored toe nails” are fine. I don’t think I need a pedicure to wear sandals

    5. JulieBulie*

      I hate hate hate the sound of flip-flops. That fleshy, slappy sound. Ugh.

      Regular sandals that don’t make that sound don’t bother me. I don’t look at people’s feet, so I don’t care if they’re visually ugly, as long as they’re not smelly or diseased.

      I don’t wear them, myself. Excellent chance of spilling hot coffee on myself, dropping something on my foot, etc.

      1. Lia*

        I had a boss that banned them. It was the ONLY item in our “dress code”, if you can even call it that!

        I hate them too and never allowed my kids to wear them. They are terrible for your feet, besides.

  132. AJaya*

    Any tips on starting a career in UI/UX? I am currently working in marketing, but would like to transition into a user experience role. I have a bit of experience from a Masters program, professional and volunteer projects – mostly research focused, but a bit of design as well. I’d be happy with specializing in either area, but am more confident in my research skills.

    Unfortunately, I haven’t spotted many entry-level roles. Are there any job boards or companies that I should be looking at specifically? I just moved to the SF Bay Area.

  133. ceiswyn*

    I’m someone who’s spent twenty years working, and I’m now going back to university full-time to study a Masters that’s not related to my career.

    Has anyone else here done this? How can I expect university postgraduate study to be different to work? How will it be similar? Will being older than all the other students in the programme be as weird as I fear?

    (In the UK, if it makes a difference)

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Not sure if you’ll see this but…

      Chances are you won’t be the only mature student. I’ve done this but on a course that was all mature students so don’t have advice on that front. But good luck! And take advantage of any and all study skills help.

      1. Ceiswyn*

        Thanks :)

        Fortunately I already have excellent study skills; I’ve been studying a second undergraduate degree part-time alongside full-time work for the past five years, in order to make this career move. But it’s been a loooong time since I’ve been at an actual physical university, and I don’t know academia – or this particular area – at all.

        Adding to The Fear is that this is a highly selective and well respected programme; past students have published their Masters work in Science and Nature, so Imposter Syndrome is likely to be an issue!

    2. Close Bracket*

      I did that. It was fine. Think back to your undergrad days. Did you think the occasional older student was weird, or was it just one more thing about them, like brown hair? You will be much more sensitive to your age than they will, so just let it go.

      For me, going back to school was awesome. There wasn’t the sense of “I must succeed or I will never find a job” bc I had a ton of other things to fall back on. The pressure was really off. It was also so much more intellectually stimulating than my job had been.

      My institution provided new students with a list of professors with their research areas and year and school they graduated from. If this information is available to you, do not go looking for people who may have finished school the same year you did. If you cannot help yourself, do not dwell on how they are now tenure track professors while you just left your career and are a student again.

  134. Anonyforthis*

    Had an interesting one this week. It seems a consultant who used to work onsite here had some interesting hobbies he wanted to keep quiet from his wife so he enlisted another consultant, who is still working onsite and has been for many years, to help him out. This consultant brought liquor into our office and stored it in the cabinet of this other consultant’s cubicle, cigarettes and lighters and then, left two bullets in his overhead bin. It’s bad enough this guy had just had no qualms about bringing this stuff into our office but that the guy who works here, and knows our policies, also did nothing about it. I only found out because I was working with our local consultant and mentioned what a mess his cubicle was and he said the other consultant left a lot of stuff here, and oh, btw, here are a couple of bullets he left behind (this consultant has been gone for months!). I immediately took the bullets and gave them to our onsite PD, and it just escalated from there. I hope, for this consultant’s sake, he never steps foot back on our property. I have to chalk it up to being just completely thoughtless about what he was doing, and I find that a great deal with these young, male foreign consultants (and I’ve worked with a LOT of them). I have a feeling some new policies are going to be created from this little incident.

  135. Victoria*

    I have a question about an internship I’m at. I’ve worked there for about nine months, and despite studying finance, the closest I’ve gotten to learning any skills in that was a brief stint using QuickBooks to organize credit card transactions. While I understand that being an intern can mean doing boring stuff, I’ve been totally ok with that. Not only that, but this is a start-up as well, so people change hats as needed. I’ve sometimes brought up to my boss the fact that I would like to do more finance-related stuff, she’s either not had anything for me to do, or tells me that things she would have me do are being done by the office manager (which, fair enough). Basically what they want me to do is make calls all day, which would be fine if this was a part-time job, but it’s annoying me that after nine months in this internship, I still haven’t been taught any skills in the field that I’m studying for.

    And it’s a nice office and I have lovely coworkers and I’m even getting paid -but. I feel like I either need to talk to them about calling my ‘internship’ a part-time job because I’m not getting any relevant experience, or I need to find a new internship or something. Am I just being dramatic? I always hear about how people do lots of irrelevant stuff as an intern and that it takes time to get to do actual ‘stuff’, but if feels like nine months with no ‘stuff’ in sight is too long.

    1. NK*

      I work in finance, and yes, nine months is far too long to be doing an internship where you are developing no finance-related skills. If you need this job for the money, I agree that it’s a part-time job, not an internship. I’d encourage you to find another internship that will give you some relevant skills. I review a lot of student resumes and we have interns around here. I expect that interns are gaining relevant skills when I’m looking at resumes, and we make sure our interns are getting actual finance experience and not just admin work. Yes, there’s some grunt work, but we want to make sure they’re also getting resume-building experience.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I think this happens a lot — employers who create internships forget (or don’t realize) that the point of an internship for the intern is to gain knowledge and practical skills. The need for the employer is often “get stuff done that nobody else wants to do.” I don’t think you’re being dramatic, but I’m not sure there’s a lot you can do about it — it sounds like your employer doesn’t have the time (or desire) to invest in coming up with projects to help you learn what you want to learn.

      1. Victoria*

        Thank you both for your advice! I think I’m going to try to line up a part-time job for over the summer, and then leave my internship.

    3. Princess Carolyn*

      It’s definitely time to find a new internship. I don’t think anyone would fault you for leaving an internship after 9 months, given that so many of them are designed for just 3-month stints. If you’re not learning useful job skills, it’s not worth it.

  136. Xiety*

    Hi all, long time lurker, but first time commenting.

    I work in software development, despite not being especially technically literate; I know just enough to get by. My soft skills are my real strength and have aided me in getting promoted up to a leadership role. I seem to be progressing along a hierarchy towards project management, which is great because I’ve been concerned that my lack of technical skills would hold me back.

    I’m not a born leader, so I have to work hard at managing my direct reports. There are a lot of problems with our projects that are out of my control, but which I have to help deal with the fall-out for (out of scope, poor communication between locations, etc). Almost every day there is a fire to put out. I’m not accountable for this but it has pretty much been established that if I don’t put out the fires they just spread; no one else is able or willing to take on these tasks. Unfortunately, I also deal with long term problems with anxiety that I have been in and out of therapy for multiple times in my life which has more recently been exacerbated by my changing work role and the stress that it puts on me.

    I’ve been trying to do some soul searching the last few months to ask myself if the path I’m on towards project management is actually going to be do-able for me. The stress & anxiety I feel sometimes is almost unbearable and I sometimes feel utterly miserable. Therapy is helping, but I know that my work in general is contributing significantly. Should I just accept that project management and an anxiety disorder do not go together? Is there a way that I can talk to my manager to ask to relieve some of the more stressful parts of the job that won’t just come off as “I don’t want to do my job”? I know there’s a lot of context missing here, but I would just like to hear from anybody that might have some insight into this kind of situation.

    1. Jan*

      If you have sympathetic higher management, find ways to collect some hard data on the situation. If you’re using Agile methodology, you can use a task-tracking system like Rally to track issues as they come in, assign them to people, and view their statuses… and most especially, note where issues are blocked or not getting worked because your team has had to drop them and put out other fires. Then you can create summary reports of how long it took issues to be solved, how long they spent bouncing back and forth between people, and so on — that’s critical data to pass back to the higher-ups to demonstrate that there are larger problems at work, and your team either needs more resources or some serious process improvement has to happen.

    2. Thlayli*

      This may sound harsh, but honestly I’m leaning towards “project management and anxiety disorder don’t go together”.

      Any way you could get some info off someone in the role you are on track for about the level of stress they deal with and then you can decide if your disorder would make that unworkable or not?

  137. ST*

    As I have been feeling a looming sense of “they want to get rid of me” at the job I’ve been doing for 15 years (with award-winning results, BTW) I started applying for likely jobs last weekend.
    I got one immediate rejection (which was OK, as looking back over it shows that it wouldn’t be a great fit) but today I got a call to schedule an interview for a better position next Monday. So, it’s nice to know that I still may have some marketable skills.

    I’m not certain that this position will pay enough to make it worthwhile while I still have my current job. If nothing else it’s an excuse to get a haircut and get in some interview practice.

  138. Anontoday*

    Anyone have any tips on how to politely but firmly push back against my mansplainy coworker (who I already have a terrible relationship with) when he gives me things that are definitely HIS job?

    The most common thing has to do with a program that he is in charge of. But there’s one part of working with the database that he CONSTANTLY just sets on my desk and expects me to do for him, even though I’ve trained him on how to do it, and he made a big deal out of practicing the process the other day while we were both in the office. I’m convinced at this point that he’s playing dumb (he’s used “but your’e so much better at it” on me several times now), and I so far haven’t been able to effectively and professionally push back and say “no, this is your job, do your actual job instead of trying to supervise everyone else in this office when you have no supervisory capacity.”

    In terms of org structure, his supervisor and I are peers, but he has real problems with authority over him at ALL levels, up to our director and exec director, and anyone else with higher stature.

    1. Myrin*

      Ugh, that sounds frustrating (and he sounds like someone who needs to be set straight by his own supervisor sometime)! There was a similar letter (albeit with a different power strucute) two years ago here and I think some of Alison’s suggested wording there might work really well in your situation!

      1. Anontoday*

        Thanks! Some of this is relevant, though not all of it. He set a file down when I was in the middle of doing another one yesterday, I tried to push back by saying I was busy, but still ended up with his file, too. (The actual process he keeps giving me takes 5 mins max, but it’s another extremely frustrating piece of an already toxic relationship.)

        Everyone with any supervisory position over Fergus has been trying to curb the worst of his behavior, and sometimes he’s better than others, but this thing is really starting to drive me nuts.

      1. Anontoday*

        His supervisor DOES know about this, so does our supervisor. We work in a tiny (7 person) office, with an open plan, and she’s just as frustrated with some of his behavior as I am. She’s working on it from her end, but in the meantime I still need to be able to say “F off, this is your job and I know you know how to do it” in more polite and professional terms.

        1. NW Mossy*

          If your boss knows, go to her and say “I know we talked about this before, but Fergus is still handing off work to me that’s his responsibility. Since I’ve got other commitments to keep ahead of his work, I’m planning to start giving it back to him and letting him know he can discuss with his boss if that’s a problem. Are you OK with me doing that?”

          I’m assuming she’s a reasonable person who agrees that Fergus should be doing his own work, and she’ll likely say “Sure, go ahead.” Then do it! A simple “Sorry, no can do!” either verbally + not taking the file or by email/sticky note attached when you give it back each and every time he tries. If and when he offers up some reason why you should take the work, respond each time with “You should talk to [his boss’s name] about that!” with a warm smile and a swivel back to your work. Give him nothing to cling to, and eventually he’ll give up.

        2. Beezus*

          “I can’t help you with this. You need to do it yourself.”
          “I need to focus on XYZ now. I can’t do that for you.”
          “I am happy to answer your process questions about ABC, but I absolutely will not do it for you.”

          I have one of these, too. They recently made him a supervisor (although not mine, thank goodness.)

        3. nonegiven*

          Get a box with his name on it. Everything he puts on your desk that he should be doing himself goes in the box. Everyday once or twice a day dump the contents back on his desk, or hand it all to his supervisor.

    3. LCL*

      Tell his supervisor, your peer, that you aren’t going to pick up the slack for this guy anymore and it will probably blow back on him. Take it from a government employee, sometimes that is the only thing that works with people. Refusal to a job is OK if you are refusing it because a qualified person, who is responsible for the work, is trying to make you do it. It’s never OK to assign it to someone else who is not qualified, or who you think won’t complain, if the shirker is able to do the work and has the time.

      1. Anontoday*

        She is working on it from her end. He’s super difficult to manage. But while she’s working on his behavior directly, I still need to be able to effectively say “this is your job, stop putting it on me.”

        1. LCL*

          You just said it pretty effectively right here. You can say that to him, it’s professional. Effectively in this case means standing up for yourself in a professional manner. If by effective you mean make him behave, that ain’t gonna happen just by your actions. I think sometimes people are misled by the modern trend of asking for a “script” for someone else’s behavior, and if you could just get the right script (say the magic words) everything will be fixed. You can’t fix him, you can only watch out for yourself.

        2. dawbs*

          be direct and blunt.

          It’s like I tell trainees who have to deal with difficult customers, you have to be polite and professional–you don’t have to be ‘nice’ or ‘generous’. (and also, you aren’t making it awkward. He’s making it awkward, you’re simply putting ‘return to sender’ on the box of awkward he created”

          “John, I am unable to take on additional tasks unless Bossypants approves it. Please take this to her”
          (and consider emails w/ bcc to your and/or his boss when it’s left on your desk w/o words. “John, I returned the Smithyton file to you as it’s not part of my current assignment. Bossypants is managing my workload, and you should speak to her if this is something you are unable to work on”)

    4. Undine*

      I might splain right back to him. Optionally in email, so it’s documented. Like:

      I notice that you’ve left the paperwork for JellyBaby Spout Database Update Task on my desk again, and I just wanted to make sure that you are clear about the process I’ve showed you. I know this can be confusing at first, but I’m confident that with time and effort, you will be able to master it. Feel free to ask me any questions you may have.

    5. JulieBulie*

      I think next time you can just say “I’m not going to do that.” If he protests, or asks why, repeat that you’re not going to do it. That IS the professional and effective way to deal with it.

      It’s also the polite way, because you’re not saying “I’m not going to do that, douchebag.”

      But if it’s already been adequately communicated to him that this is his task and not yours, I recommend not saying a thing. Put it somewhere in your work area that plainly indicates that you won’t be working on it. Or give it to his supervisor. (“Fergus put this on my desk. I’m not sure why he’s delegating it to me, but I don’t have time to do it.”)

      But ABSOLUTELY DO NOT DO this task, because that will only prolong the problem – not only the problem of his behavior, but also his managers’ failure to address it.

    6. Thlayli*

      I’m a big fan of being direct. If you are absolutely certain this is his job then just say that to him.

      “I’m busy with my own work today, I don’t have time to help you do your work.”

      If he pushes back say something like “if youre still not able to do it after all the training I’ve given you then maybe
      [his supervisor] should arrange some other training for you”

    7. Close Bracket*

      That is called strategic incompetence. He knows how to do it. He just doesn’t want to.

      I like the approach of, “I’m sorry, I can’t keep doing your tasks for you. Doing more of them will help you become as good as I am.”

  139. HappyIntern*

    I have recently applied for an intership at a german brach of a big US company (I also got said internship, yay!). When I received the invitation for the interview it included a (to me) strange paragraph about how the office has an open floor plan and I might pass by other employees on the way to the interview and that I should let them know beforehand if that would be a problem. I have never read or heard anything like this before here in Germany when interviewing. Can anybody explain to me what the reason for this is and why it could possibly be a problem to walk by others before the interview? It just seems strange to me that this might constitute a legal problem that they would have to accommodate, because why else mention this… thanks so much for some insights!

    1. Myrin*

      I’m also in Germany and I’ve never heard of such a thing before. I’m puzzled and curious at the same time what this might be about.

    2. gwal*

      Maybe they use the same boilerplate language for job-seekers and internship-seekers and have had previous bad experiences where a candidate complained that an acquaintance saw them interviewing and “blew their cover” with someone connected to the candidate’s current job? A lot of “what ifs” but I could imagine that a CYA paragraph would be enough minimal investment in avoiding such awkwardness/embarrassment for future interviewees.

  140. Jessen*

    What’s the rules nowadays on cleavage in the workplace? I was always taught no cleavage whatsoever, but I’ve noticed a lot of my female colleagues show some. My workplace is business casual. No jeans/leggings and no t-shirts, but we regularly see sleeveless dresses even on upper management, and the rule on skirts is three inches above the knee.

    I’m fairly petite and busty, so I have a lot of tops that hit exactly at the top of my cleavage when I’m standing straight up with my shoulders straight.

    1. Ashie*

      As a fellow busty gal, I think there’s only so much you can do but I feel like cleavage is less important than how much overall breast is showing. I’m ever not sure whether I’m showing too much cleave, I’ll wear an interesting necklace that takes up some real estate on my chest so people look at that rather than at my bust.

    2. Manders*

      I have the same build, and it’s tough because a lot of shirts look fine *to me* when I’m checking in the mirror at my own eye level, but someone significantly taller than me can probably see a bit more than intended. I try to choose collars that fall above the top of my cleavage, but I’ve also accepted that any shirt that doesn’t fasten at the neck might potentially show a tiny bit of cleavage if someone looks down at it.

      1. Ange*

        Reminds me of one place I worked where the elevator had a mirrored ceiling (no idea why) and I was always paranoid that people could see way more than I intended to show.

    3. Icky Workplace*

      I have a coworker who is “trans” but clearly male except for a few choices in appearance. One is to wear a button-down shirt unbuttoned to the breastbone… with a business suit. And nobody here, male or female or whatever, dresses in any way other than professional … with NO cleavage.

      I find that just so icky. Even the “Wild and Crazy Guys” of SNL didn’t do that.

      1. LizB*

        Your coworker’s fashion choices sound totally unprofessional for any workplace, but it’s not cool to put trans in scare quotes and refer to your coworker as “clearly male.” Trans women are women, no matter what medical interventions they undergo or don’t undergo.

        1. Manders*

          Seconded. The fashion choice is unprofessional, but your coworker’s gender expression isn’t. I do also have sympathy for women who are transitioning and trying to figure out work-appropriate outfits–it’s hard enough for me to figure out where the lines are drawn, and I’ve been dealing with womenswear my whole life. I hope her boss can give her some gentle guidance.

        2. TCO*

          Thank you–I was struggling to articulate a response here, and you did it perfectly.

        4. Jessen*

          Agreed. And I think it can be especially hard for trans* people because being read as sexualized is one way in our society to be read as “feminine” – perhaps even one of the easier ones.

      2. Andraste*

        Hey, that’s really uncool to refer to someone who is trans as clearly male. That person is a female. You don’t get to chose that for them. Don’t be rude.

    4. Jules the First*

      As a fellow diminutive-and-busty gal, I get a tall friend to check out anything I’m thinking of wearing to the office that shows cleavage – ie, if he’s standing facing me or looking over my shoulder, he’ll have to look down on me to make eye contact, and if he can also see any bra (or too much boobage) then it’s a no-go for the office. Does that explanation make sense?

    5. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Lord, if absolutely no cleavage were allowed I could only wear crew-neck t-shirts or turtlenecks. I’m not even especially busty for my size, but the overall shape of my torso and chest is such that I only have a couple of inches between the bottom of my neck and the beginnings of my cleavage gap.

  141. TheITManager*

    I’m in shock right now. I just got a pay cut when I did nothing wrong.

    A few years ago when I first became a manager, I managed an absolute nightmare employee. Here are some of the things he did:
    * Cost the company several hundred dollars by making several easily fixable mistakes on an IT procurement task
    * Harassed female coworkers over email and IM
    * Showed an absolute lack of initiative or ownership on every task he was assigned
    * Had odd mannerisms that made me worry that he would get violent towards me or the other people on our floor
    * Made an HR complaint every time I talked to him about performance, claiming I was going after him because of his race (he’s white)

    He left last year, but at that point he was several weeks away from finally being fired.

    A couple of weeks ago I got a call from another company’s HR, doing a reference check on him. I laid it out in the most honest way possible, and they thanked me.

    This week I was called into a meeting with our HR. They told me that I was being put “on notice” for violating our company’s no references policy. They said that while they weren’t formally demoting me, I was on thin ice.

    I can’t believe any of this happened; the nightmare employee was just that, a nightmare employee, and he would’ve gotten us sued at some point. He was on his way out, and I didn’t say he was fired, only that I would’ve fired him if I could. I feel betrayed by my company.

    I’m in shock, and I don’t know what to do. Should I quit? Sue my company? Tell my team what happened? I need your advice.

    1. Icky Workplace*

      You did break the rules, so you probably don’t have a case. If the only change for you is financial, then you don’t need to say anything to anybody. It sucks that they did that to you but there’s no need to advertise it.

    2. Construction Safety*

      Does the company have a “no references policy?
      If they do, were you aware of it?

      1. TheITManager*

        Nobody follows the no references policy. This guy is a nightmare employee, and I think it’s my responsibility to warn people about him.

        1. Thlayli*

          You are trying to make this about the employee but it’s about your violation of policy. If you have some evidence that other people have broken policy and management knew and let them away with it, then you can use that. If you have no such evidence then you just have to accept that you are being punished for gettting caught, which is a risk everyone takes when they break the rules.

    3. Betty*

      Unfortunately you violated company policy. In situations like this it is best to do a happy dance in your head & keep quiet.

    4. Squeeble*

      I find it really bizarre that they would cut your pay because of this. I have no idea if you have a legal case or not, but if you try to go that route, that’s the part I’d focus on. Yes, you broke a rule, and it’s fair that there might be consequences for that, but this seems weird.

    5. HR Bee*

      You probably don’t have any grounds to sue, UNLESS you suspect that there was an underlying discriminatory reason for this reaction.

      To be honest, I would be surprised if this was only because of the no-references thing… Is there anything else going on? Any possibility that there’s an underlying cause here?

      Although, it’s worth pointing out that people like Nightmare Employee are the most likely to sue a company for defamation of character or whatever, and that might be why HR reacted this strongly. Especially if the reason they found out about the reference was because you cost Nightmare Employee the job, and Nightmare Employee decided to get a lawyer involved.

      In any case, I would keep your head down, don’t react outwardly, and start job-hunting. Cutting your pay is a really out-of-proportion reaction to this.

    6. Natalie*

      They sound overly rigid/punitive. If it’s an option, I’d start looking for another job.

    8. Detective Amy Santiago*

      How did HR find out you gave the reference? Were you aware of the no reference policy?

      As much as I think you did the right thing, if you knowingly violated a workplace policy, I don’t think there’s a whole lot you can do to push back against this.

      I do think it’s odd that they lowered your pay because of this though. That seems like an odd punitive reaction to a policy violation. It might be worth looking into local employment law to find out what it says about salary reduction.

    9. Triangle Pose*

      Was it HR who said we are lowering your pay based on your violation of a no-references policy? Seems like an odd way to handle violation of this type of policy… did you talk to your manager about this?

    11. Close Bracket*

      If you are ever in this situation again, make any flimsy excuse (except the policy),or even no excuse at all, to avoid giving a reference. When a listed reference won’t give a reference, people know what that means.

  142. New Bee*

    I got a new job! It’s a step up with fewer hours for over 30% more pay, a flexible schedule, and access to ongoing development both inside and outside the org (including tuition reimbursement).

    As usual, Alison’s advice is amazing! I used the archives to revise my resume and cover letter and to prepare some really thorough questions about the culture of the job (including ones specifically related to needing flexibility as a new mom). The best thing is, before finding this site I was treating interviews like a one-way street (“I hope they like me…”), and felt really self-conscious about not being mommy-tracked. Alison’s advice that you should also be evaluating them led me to be more strategic about where I applied, which led to more interviews, more offers, and more negotiating power.

    For anyone still searching, stick with it; you can do it!

    2. Say what, now?*

      Congratulations on finding such a (seemingly) perfect fit! I hope they live up to their image.

  143. Punkin*

    Thursday’s update ( https://www.askamanager.org/2017/05/update-i-had-a-fling-with-my-new-bosss-then-husband.html ) brought to light that the OP did not have a degree. She mentioned in the comments that her financial situation may prevent her from furthering her education.

    In my state, there is a program ( https://www.tnreconnect.gov/ ) to assist degree-less adults go to college or trade school. I am guessing there could be such programs in other states.

    Don’t discount trade school. Our state needs people for all kinds of jobs that do not require a 4-year degree, but need technical training of some sort. People who can maintain complicated factory machinery are in high demand in our state and can make $75K (which goes a long way in TN) pretty quickly out of training.

  145. atexit8*

    I am looking for pointers on what to put in a resume for a 50+ worker who is trying to transition to clerical position.

    My last job as a direct aka non-contract employee was Sept 2013.

    Since then I have worked as a contract employee either on W-2 or 1099. And the work was in my field and was not clerical.
    I can see the writing on the wall in that I probably won’t be able to find a job in my field, so I am trying to find an clerical job.
    I am too old to be working in the warehouse for Amazon. They have two big warehouses near me.

    I have a lot of experience Excel, and I have that on the resume.
    I mention that I can touch typing, filing, scanning.
    I can touch type at 40 wpm.
    But I don’t know what to do other than to put on the resume.

    1. HR Bee*

      I know Alison usually is against putting summary or intent statements at the top of resumes, but in this case, it might serve you to put something at the top stating that you are specifically looking to transition to clerical work. Just make sure that statement doesn’t actively contradict the job postings you are applying to! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten a resume that said something like “I’m looking for a job as a registered nurse” and I went “why the heck are you applying to a Teapot Analyst position, then?”

      Or, alternatively, lay that out in your cover letter, instead.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I’m opposed to objectives since they’re so dated, but I’m in favor of profiles as long as they differentiate you from other candidates. If they’re so generic that a bunch of other applicants could have the same thing (which is most of them), then no.

  146. blue lampshade*

    I’m on unemplyment and having difficulty finding a new job. I honestly think it’s partly due to that in order to collect unemployment in NYC I’m not allowed to turn anything down… so I’ve been a little more picky about what I’ve been applying to. But in reality, I think it’s hurting me because I mean… twice in my life I’ve gotten job offers that weren’t the ones I applied to — like they saw my application and noticed I was overqualified and then offered me another job they hadn’t posted. But I’ve also been offered jobs with 5 years experience at entry level salaries so… I feel a bit stuck. Advice would be helpful.

    1. atexit8*

      I am not the least bit surprised that these employers have being offering jobs requiring 5 years of experience at entry-level salaries.
      I just saw one job ad yesterday that listed 2 years of experience but the list of requirements is easily for someone with 5-10 years of experience. And accordingly the low end of the salary range is for a new grad.

      If it was me, I would keep collecting that unemployment.
      While it will be illegal to ask for salary history that entry-level salary will mess you up big time.

      Cut your expenses to the barebones.

  148. drpuma*

    Unfolding now! We got an hour’s notice of a surprise ice cream social to honor the May birthdays in my ~35 person department. I can’t eat dairy – nor can my boss, who is one of the 3 birthday people being celebrated. I will prob just skip it, as will she, but I’m curious what other folks would do.

    If you couldn’t eat dairy and your birthday was one of a handful being celebrated with ice cream, would you say anything? What and when? Would you still show up?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Was the ice cream thing just an oversight, as in whoever decided on the treat didn’t realize you both couldn’t consume dairy? If so, I think I would still attend as appreciation for the gesture.

    2. Amadeo*

      My supervisor has allergies to everything under the sun, it seems, including dairy. We recently had a ‘good bye’ thing for student employees who were graduating (so it wasn’t really for him specifically) and had ice cream and cake, neither of which he could eat. He came up to socialize, but couldn’t have any treats.

      I told him next time I’d bring him a package of beef jerky. He seems to take this stuff pretty good-naturedly, but I feel bad that he doesn’t always get to eat the treats people bring in.

    3. Longtime Lurker*

      If I were being honored, I would go and politely refuse the ice cream explaining that I don’t eat dairy but I really appreciate the thought. (For the record, my co-workers know not to celebrate my birthday, it’s just a thing with me).

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I would show up and just not eat*, and if anyone asked, I would say I don’t eat dairy. In a department that size, it’s kind of a crapshoot as to who knows what about whom. My whole company is smaller than that, and we have a pretty good handle on who can eat what. Granted, if the organizers know your boss can’t eat dairy, then that’s crappy of them. But I would assume it’s ignorance first.

      *I would TOTALLY make a sundae just with toppings, though, if they had them. Walnuts, syrup if I could eat it, fruit, all on top of a crushed-up cone. Because I love condiments and sometimes wish it were socially acceptable to eat ketchup with a spoon.

      1. Say what, now?*

        Second all of these. I think this is definitely a “it’s the thought that counts” thing. Although, I don’t think it would be out of line to ask that a non-dairy option be offered for next year. Maybe something along the lines of “You all are so sweet to think of us! I really appreciate it! I do know that a couple of people, myself included, are lactose intolerant. Could we do a cookie cake next year so I don’t get jealous of the treats? haha” The emphasis is on the “wow you are so great for organizing this!” rather than making it about their unintentional mistake.

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      If you say something, you run the risk of looking petty. Especially if your dietary restrictions aren’t common knowledge!

      I would still go, but politely decline to eat anything and say “I can’t eat dairy.” They’ll get the message and hopefully remember for next year!

    6. drpuma*

      Thank you all for weighing in! Attendance for this was pretty low all around, I think due to the late notice and 1pm start time (hard to finagle unless you go for lunch right at noon). Consensus seems to be acknowledging it’s the thought that counts – which I will definitely keep in mind if the June birthdays (which include me) are also ice cream based! To say nothing of the genius all-toppings sundae hack.

    7. Cookie*

      I’d make it very clearly known that I can’t have dairy and would probably skip out on the event. I am lactose intolerant and my experience has been that it gets overlooked regularly such that I’m often unable to eat anything at luncheons. The only way to create change is to make sure that whoever arranged this event remembers you skipping your own birthday, otherwise it’ll slip their mind next time too.

    8. nonegiven*

      Are you absolutely sure they don’t have some non dairy type substitute planned as an alternative?

  149. calonkat*

    I thought this would be an item of interest for some regular readers here.

    My nephew is a high school student with restaurant experience, who applied for a position with a different restaurant this summer. He was interviewed, but never heard back. My sister in law encouraged him to call to check on the position, and amazingly, that was the right thing to do!!! He’d gotten the job and was put on the schedule, all without notifying HIM! So he went to work THAT NIGHT and spent the evening filling out the paperwork that would ordinarily have been emailed to him in advance.

    Apparently there are two managers, and one is awesome and one, err, isn’t. The one that “isn’t” was in charge of notifying the new employee.

    1. Snazzy Hat*

      I have a friend who wasn’t notified of his then-new job because the HR person quit that day. It essentially went thus:

      Adam: Hey Bob, we’ve decided to go with Charlie. Can you give him a call & let him know?
      Bob out loud: Sure thing, Adam!
      Bob’s brain: Screw you, Adam, I quit!
      Bob: {quietly gathers his things & sneaks out of the building}
      Charlie: {continues job search}

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      That’s great but I’d be a bit worried working for such disorganised people!

    3. Bad Candidate*

      That’s happened to me twice. First one was a seasonal summer job that I had worked two summers prior. I applied to work in the office for the third summer and never heard anything, so I found a different summer job that paid a lot better. Then they called me to set up orientation for the year and I was like “Uhhh yeah…” I interviewed for a full time job a few years ago when I first moved here and again, never heard back. Weeks later I accepted a job at another place (also more money) and a couple of days before I was supposed to start, HR called me up to tell me about what paperwork I need to fill out. Yeah, you’re missing a step here folks.

  150. Unlucky Bear*

    I’ve been asking for a second monitor for my desk for like two years now with no luck, until now! Our IT director is resigning and has clearly entered the “gives no f*cks” portion of his notice period because this week me and two other people in our department randomly got new monitors! It’s like IT Christmas around here.

  151. Cafe au Lait*

    I belong to a committee at work that advocates for professional development opportunities for staff. I’m the chair. One of the committee members ‘edits’ a quarterly staff newsletter. His version of editing means compiling all articles and then sending out an email to the committee asking us to find any spelling or grammar errors. Plus, he’ll ignore all suggestions unless it comes from someone he is friendly with or likes. This last issues went through 7(!) all-committee edits before it was finished.

    Is there a nice way of asking him to send us the finished product?

  152. NonprofitChaos*

    Hi! I have LinkedIn questions about how to use your profile when you are laid off. My situation is that my title did not reflect the work I was doing, and the work that I was doing is not necessarily the work that I want to continue doing (or limit myself to). I was Senior Manager of Unspecific Nonprofit Teapots, but had no direct reports, and my position was largely editorial, general communications, and some public relations/advocacy. Those last two departments were eliminated in the layoffs (and what I am most interested in, although would prefer to avoid working for a nonprofit again at all costs, unless it is super large and well regarded).

    Also, job networking groups I go to advise creating some sort of independent consultant title for yourself on your LinkedIn profile to make it appear as if you are employed or self-employed; however I am afraid that will mess up unemployment benefits. Do states check LI profiles? How do people manage this? I have never been laid off before …..

  153. Amadeo*

    For those of you here who either have a little side business in addition to your full or part time job or went into business for yourself under a DBA, how on earth did you come up with your business name? I’m giving serious thought to doing a little side thing with the stuff that I make (soap, lotions, shirts, vinyl, art and so on) but don’t want to pigeonhole myself with a tack-on to the name like ‘bathworks’, ‘creative’ or so on, with most of this stuff probably being along a geekish bent.

    Did you brainstorm for hours, already know what you wanted to use or call together a group of friends to write down a bunch of words? I can design things for anybody else, but I have so much trouble being creative for *me*!

    1. Mephyle*

      There’s a crowdsourcing site specializing in this called PickyDomains – you could check it out and see whether the cost seems reasonable ($50).

  154. Bea W*

    Phone screen pro-tip from my boss: Ask questions about the actual work you’d be doing or company instead of things like “Can I work from home?” If a candidate did that they would really stand out and appear really interested. You’d probably kill it since she complains repeatedly about this. No one asks relevant questions!

    1. Close Bracket*

      Phone screen pro-tip from me, who you don’t know from Adam:

      > “Can I work from home?”

      Holy cats, no, just no. Ask those questions once you have an offer letter in your hand. Wait until the in-person interview to ask about “work culture”.

  155. AGirlCalledFriday*

    It’s getting to that time again. I’m a teacher, and I’m ready to move onto something else. Today alone, I have lost the time my students are in gym, my lunch time, I’m expected to be at an awards ceremony after school, expected to serve parents at a dinner afterwards, expected to go to a school play I would have already seen once.

    I’m tired. I’m tired of the fighting and the talking back. I’m tired of putting so much of my time and my money and my heart into this job and not getting a penny more – I can’t afford to live on my own – and just getting more and more work loaded onto me. I had to have weekly meetings and hours and hours of classes that I had to complete on my own time and which will probably be useless next year. I have a student who refuses to behave, but if I try to enforce consequences his parents come in and scream at me, accusing me of not ‘listening to or caring about their son’.

    I love the kids, I used to love the work, but I’m burnt out.

    I have a masters in ed, a bachelors in history. I am well traveled and have lived overseas. I am fairly capable at most things. I cannot go back to school. :( Any ideas?

    1. Amadeo*

      Unfortunately I have no advice, just sympathy. Teaching seems to have become one of the most thankless jobs in the world sometimes. My mother works as a secretary/office admin in an elementary school and I hear so. many. stories. about parents. About them coming in screaming, having accepted the word of their children without question, not wondering if perhaps that was the way events truly unfolded.

      I hear about the teachers who spend so much of their own money to get the supplies they need for their classrooms (or put stuff on the school supplies list trying to get those materials provided) and end up stocking things like paper and pencils because the parents refuse to buy them, or they can’t get the books they need because the school board won’t pay for them.

      I am sorry. Can you translate either of your degrees to something like research?

      1. AGirlCalledFriday*

        Amadeo, thank you so, so much. I know my students love me, and I love them, but I’m so tired of managing their behavior. I almost wish we could just hang out and chat, and someone else could teach and discipline!

        I would love to do something involving history, I’m extremely passionate about the subject and I’m usually reading one book or another on different eras and people, but as far as I know I would need a masters or phd in history to be employable, and such jobs are highly coveted. I could try to switch to teaching history in school, but there are fewer opportunities and I would still be in a teaching environment. I’m also interested in culture and relationships between people. I’m a decent writer, organizer, I’m creative, and I can bake a mean cupcake!

        1. Grits McGee*

          This might not be tenable, but would you be interested in museums? I work in a museum-adjacent field, and I’ve seen a trend of larger museums really trying to beef up their education departments (separate from standard docent-ing) and hiring staff that can create student-targeted programs and work with school groups. Having teaching experience is a huge leg up hiring-wise, plus you get the fun teaching bits without all of the horrible bits you mentioned.

          1. Ramona Flowers*

            My friend is a teacher turned education officer at a gallery and loves it.

    2. Icky Workplace*

      Tour guide! You’re used to shepherding lost souls around, you’re well traveled, and most tours go to historical sites. You’d love it!

    3. LizB*

      Freelance tutoring? It doesn’t come with benefits, but depending on where you live (aka how many well-off families there are around you) you can make an okay amount of money, and you could supplement with something else part-time that’s low-effort. My friend teaches part-time at a tiny private school (she has seven kids in her class. SEVEN.) and tutors part-time, and does pretty well. Plus, when a kid or parent is obnoxious, you can choose not to work with them!

    4. Unlucky Bear*

      What about becoming a corporate trainer? My husband has the same degrees as you but was never able to get a teaching job, so he’s been working in retail banking for the past decade. His bosses are planning on sending him to his company’s training office once an opening becomes available.

    5. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      If you’re at all interested in education policy, that’s a pretty common transition for teachers to make. (State depts of ed, school district staff, ed advocacy organizations, etc.)

    7. Jules the Third*

      Consider a business analyst position for a multinational. Stable pay, decent benefits, relatively professional coworkers.

  156. MegaMoose, Esq*

    Does anyone have any advice about how to broaden a job search without going too broad? For background, I’ve spent about 4.5 years now trying to find work in the public sector. I’ve regularly gotten interviews, but no offers. I had a good (but term-limited) job for two years after getting my license, but have been stuck doing really mind-numbing low-level work for two years now. I’m trying to expand my job search, but I want to do it in a smart way. I’ve been meeting with contacts who work in a specific area I’ve been interested in, but I’ve gotten some good advice saying I should look in another direction as well. I haven’t been making much progress over the last month because I feel like I’m not focused. I need a “what kind of work are you looking for?” elevator pitch, and instead of one I’ve got three pretty unrelated ones.

    1. Triangle Pose*

      Hmmm, if you’re in law you’re going to need to be a little more specific than this. I’m trying to suss out what you mean when you sad “specific area” or “three unrelated kinds of work.” Are we talking industries? litigation v. transactional? Is it possible for your pitch to be centered around transferable skills that work for all three kinds of work and end with “Given that, I’m open to bucket 1 kind of work, bucket 2 and bucket 3.” I can’t tell from your question but are you 2 years out of school or 4.5 years out of school? 2 years is going to be pretty early to get out of doc review and into a coveted government job if that’s what you’re looking for.

      1. MegaMoose, Esq*

        I was trying to hit that sweet spot of not too specific, not too vague, and apparently overshot it. In any event, I’m 4.5 years out of school, 2.5 years out of a two-year clerkship. The government jobs I’ve been applying for have certainly been happy to hire people with less experience than I’ve got and I figure another two years of doc review isn’t going to help get me anywhere, so I’ve been trying to figure out what options might be available in private practice. I also keep being told I should look into compliance, but I’m having a hard time identifying an entry-level path that direction either.

        The best advice I’ve been given is to go back in time and go straight to law school after undergrad instead of taking time off in-between, but every time I try and get advice on building a time machine, the help mysteriously dries up.

        1. Triangle Pose*

          Interesting…I’ve never heard that going straight through would help. We hired a few people to coveted in-house roles because of some related work experience they hadn’t be fore law school. Do you have BigLaw experience? When you say governments positions have been even hiring people with less experience than you are you counting 4.5 or 2.5? Maybe the issue is they aren’t not counting your clerkship and you’re over counting it? In transactional world clerkships just dont mean much and in house compliance is the same way. Are you general commercial lit? Have you looked into internal investigations work? Hard to advise more without specifics (biglaw v contract attorney) but understand if you don’t want to out yourself.

  157. Matilda Jefferies*

    This is work-related only in the sense that I’m about to take my vacation…from work. :) But everything is now done that needs to be, and the countdown is officially on!

    *2 hours until I can check in to my flight
    *3 1/2 hours until I leave the office
    *26 hours until the plane leaves the gate

  158. Snazzy Hat*

    Oh my goodness oh my goodness oh my goodness I have a SECOND interview next week! AAAAAAHHHHH!!! Wait, are we counting the phone interview as an interview? I mean it took a half hour, and if we’re counting it then this upcoming interview would be a THIRD which is beyond my wildest employment dreams.

    My s.o. assumed this means I’m guaranteed the job, but I know that the only guarantee is getting a job offer, and as AAM pointed out earlier this week, that’s not 100% true either. We compromised on the premise that they’ve eliminated a lot of people so far and still think I’m a potential candidate.

    Now for the actual advice seeking. What the hell happens in an additional panel interview where one of the people on that panel interviewed you already? From what the HR person told me about the other two panelists, they work under the third, who led the original interview. Should I expect more involved and detailed questions? Are they checking to see if my personality meshes well with the current employees?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq*

      I’ve done lots of panel interviews (although usually not with overlapping participants) and I think it generally varies. Sometimes I get pretty much the same questions but with more important stakeholders, but I don’t think I’ve ever noticed round two questions being more involved and detailed. I think any time you’ve got panels it’s a safe bet that they’re looking to see how you mesh with the team, although I think some industries it’s just standard to get different opinions on a potential hire. Good luck!

  159. Ann O'Nemity*

    BYOD policies

    It’s become increasingly difficult for me to access any company information on my personal device without agreeing with a sweeping BYOD policy and installing the app that gives my employer ability to view/delete my data. Co-mingled data and privacy are not addressed at all.

    How do folks deal with this? I’m reluctant to sign the BYOD policy as written, but inability to access the company info on the go is affecting my ability to be responsive.

    1. Manders*

      Urgh, that’s annoying. Can you buy something like a cheap refurbished tablet or chromebook? That way you could have a work device that’s not connected to any of your private data.

    2. Matilda Jefferies*

      Honestly, we deal with it by not doing BYOD at all. It’s a bit inconvenient to carry around two phones, but it’s worth the tradeoff from a privacy perspective (both personal and professional.) Is it possible for your company to issue a work phone?

      Sorry, I know that’s not the advice you were looking for! Mostly just sympathy, because BYOD can be a bit of a nightmare.

        1. Icky Workplace*

          Get a low cost Virgin Mobile or Boost phone for this, if you really do need to have a phone at work. If you file a Schedule A you can probably deduct the cost.

        2. Jules the First*

          Have you tried pointing out to your manager that you’re not willing to use your existing device and that as a result they will either need to a) cope with you being unavailable on the move or b) provide you with a device?

          I’ve never worked anywhere that had a BYOD policy but wouldn’t either provide you with something basic on request or fund the purchase of an extra device if required. BYOD shouldn’t mean the company piggybacking off your private IT with no financial incentives….

    3. Triangle Pose*

      From a data and security perspective, this is where we are heading. It’s a trade off. Do you HAVE TO BYOD or can you use a company issued one? Because if you are going to take a hard line in not signing BYOD then you are limited to using a company issued device for work or letting them know you can’t access info on the go and deal with the employment consequences.

  160. Looking for Advice*

    I have over 10 years of work experience in a few different industries, working as: receptionist, front desk, admin. Assistant, file clerk, buyer and office manager.
    I would like to transition into a HR administrative assistant type of position in the near future. I recently worked at temp job and now have a couple of months experience with recruiting (scheduling and coordinating interviews), using ADP human resources software, HR employee file audit and other general admin tasks.
    To get a better idea about what an HR administrative assistant could be tasked to complete. I am looking for general guidelines / procedures or what has to happen for the following:
    -Processing new hires, termination and status changes
    -benefits administration
    -FMLA and Workers Compensation coordination
    Thanks

    1. zora*

      I’m not sure exactly what you are looking for, like do you want to learn more about these things?
      One option is to look into the HR associations, like SHRM, there are also state chapters. There is a way to get a certification, but trainings and classes are pricey.

      NOLO is a legal publisher that publishes guidebooks on HR issues, they are about $40 for each book, and cover all of the important areas of HR: http://store.nolo.com/products/employment-hr/hr-books

      If this isn’t what you meant, can you be a little more specific?

  161. Language Lover*

    Have you ever wanted to call an applicant and ask “why did you apply for this?”

    Background–I’m hiring right now for a PT position with hours that would make it feasible for someone with a full time job to also do this without having it take over every hour that they’re not working. So it’s not uncommon to find people applying who may want to pay off student loans. But I really wish these people, who sometimes have more senior/well-paying jobs than I do, would at least provide a cover letter explaining why they want the job.

    There have been a few times when I’ve just wanted to call them. Why are you applying for a job here when you live 1000 miles away? Why are you looking for a PT job at a lower rate of pay than your daytime job?

    I get that it’s a PT job and I’m more lenient about getting cover letters except when looking at your experience and background doesn’t immediately tell me what you hoped to get out of this job.

    P.S. Despite this site’s wonderful advice a few months ago about phone interviews, I think I’m just going to give up on jobs with them—even though I know they’re increasingly popular and this site recommends them. I have found that I do well one-on-one but I suddenly seize up doing phone interviews. It’s not unlike me presenting in person vs. presenting online or recording. Something about putting a device (phone/microphone) in the way robs me of my ability to speak coherently. So frustrating.

    1. Argh!*

      I’m the same way. I need the feedback of the other person’s facial expressions and body language to keep me going. I could never work in a job that’s mostly remote so it irks me to have a phone interview when I’m applying for a people job.

  162. Trying to Transition*

    Hi AAM Commenters! This may have been asked in whole or part before, so please forgive me.

    I am fervently trying to transition from a career in criminal justice to international education, specifically study abroad or intercultural/professional exchange programs, within higher education. I have a bachelor’s degree, but withheld obtaining until I figured out exactly what I want to do.

    I taught in South Korea right after undergrad (that is when I knew I wanted to make the transition), and was accepted into a great internship program at an international non-profit exchange organization in D.C. I really found the experience invaluable and it only cemented the conviction was given before, but as the norm with internships, you have to find full-time employment. I went on several interviews at similar organizations (none at any universities/colleges), but received no offers. So I went back to my training in criminal justice, which moved me to a new city.

    I’ve been at my current org for one year, and I really don’t want to stay longer for fear that I’ll firmly root myself in this sector and never be able to transition out. I have put in tons of applications and received no interviews. I am getting married in a few months (fiancé is in another state), and will also be relocating to where he is, and would really like to land something before I make the move (or even after!). I just don’t want to be pushed back into my current field.

    What advice can you give me on how to transition out of this career field and into the world of international exchange in the college/university setting?

    1. Manders*

      It sounds like universities are where the future jobs are for you–and those hiring processes move very slowly and can be opaque. If you absolutely must be employed when you move, it might be a good idea to look into other options that would allow you to do at least some of what you want to do.

      I don’t work in this field myself, but I know a lot of people who work with exchange students in various jobs. Some of my friends in similar fields to the one you’re looking at broke in by:
      * Working for companies that help foreign students get visas (your background might make this a good fit for you)
      * Working at consulate offices
      * Working in sectors related to immigration law (also a possible good fit with your background)
      * Teaching or working as admins at private high schools that take a lot of foreign students

      I know that JET has a pretty robust network of alumni who share information about jobs; you might have a similar network available to you.

      1. Trying to Transition*

        Those are great options! I recently have expanded my search to consulate and embassy offices that have programs and corporate offices that have a strong non-profit/community service arm with a focus on professional exchange and other global programming.

        I’m open to the org, so long as the work is with students and/or professionals looking to enrich their lives through cultural exchange.

        I have found the immigration jobs a little more difficult as I don’t have any prior experience with issuing visas. I have been studying SEVIS and SEVP regulations for J-1, F-1 visas though.

    2. Argh!*

      Get to know who the major employers are in your new city. If it’s a provincial place, international programs probably aren’t going to be abundant.

      1. Trying to Transition*

        I’m in NYC. I have signed up to volunteer with one of the major orgs here, unfortunately the times they send me always clash. I work full-time in an office 9-6.

        1. Argh!*

          & you’re staying there? You should be able to find something. Maybe you could work with a foreign university that sends students to the U.S.

            1. Trying to Transition*

              That’s also a good idea! I will look into that this weekend. There are so many avenues to getting into this field.

              I’d be moving to Reno, NV. The topic is still up for discussion, but he really is not keen on the idea of living here.

              1. Trying to Transition*

                And I have been looking into positions at UNR and other nonprofits in this line of work in Reno.

  163. Shabu Shabu*

    So, great news…my contract position was converted into a permanent/career/indefinite position, yay!!! This was the plan all along, but I didn’t expect it to happen until the end of the year and of course nothing was guaranteed until the ink dried.

    The “bad news” is that no one bothered to tell me that this happened(!). I happened to log into our employee portal and saw that my position had been converted a month ago.

    Nothing has changed (same pay, same benefits, same everything) but I still feel I should have been notified. Either way I was thinking of just saying, “Hi boss, I noticed my position was converted to permanent last month. Thank you!”

    That’s it, right?!

    1. LQ*

      This might be a case of everyone assuming someone else told you. Or to them it was such a nonissue that it was just about getting paperwork done so it was only as exciting to them as signing off on your payroll every week. Entirely unremarkable. I’d definitely say that, I think that’s a good way to go about it. (My first raise here was like that, I was SUPER excited. No one even mentioned it to me…so weird.)

  164. HannahS*

    I don’t have a question, but I wanted to share my experience of an unpaid internship disguised as volunteer work. I wanted more experience in research and, crucially, needed a reference letter for applying to medical and graduate school. I couldn’t manage to get one of the few coveted paid positions–those go to people with MA or MSc. degrees. The carrot continuously waved in front of me at the hospital where I wound up was that I could run my own analysis and publish the results once the data was all entered/cleaned/organized. I was going to learn so much about statistics and research design! I could get published! How educational!

    Well, I spent a year doing data entry alone in a windowless room and the database is JUST NOW at the point where analysis can begin. I saw my supervisor exactly twice while I worked for her. I learned…next to nothing. It was exactly what a paid junior assistant should have done, except “there wasn’t any funding.” Well, I got my reference letter. More importantly, I got in to my first choice of medical school (hurray!). But I could have used that time take another job (and I turned two down because this volunteer stuff + my other job + MCAT + endless applications was a lot). And when I calculate how much that reference letter cost me…it’s thousands of dollars. THOUSANDS! For, “To whom it may concern, Hannah is very reliable, etc.” It makes me so mad. Both because I could really use that money, and because I know so few people can afford to work for free.

    1. Sparrow*

      Delurking to say that I totally agree that unpaid research experiences are frequently exploitative. I’ve spent thousands of hours working on research projects over the last 5 years, which started with hours and hours of data entry alone in a windowless room. I learned next to nothing from it too, but fortunately, I have a wonderful PI who hired me as a student worker after my first semester (when I worked for academic credit), and after more than two years of that I got to take on more and more responsibilities (and now I’m very passionate about research, go figure!) HOWEVER, the vast majority of my classmates worked their tails off and never got paid (and frequently never got the promised publications/letters of rec–my best friend’s PI showed himself to be a terrible person after she had worked for him for four years, and her first-author paper was never published). Some friends have had family support while preparing to apply, but others have put themselves in VERY precarious financial situations trying to balance volunteer research with part-time jobs, MCAT studying, etc.
      I recognize that I got very lucky, but it made me so mad going on medical school interviews and hearing them talk about their wonderful diversity initiatives while thinking in the back of my mind that emphasis on research/volunteer experience in admissions but the scarcity of paid positions means you are selecting for wealth/privilege–because as you say, so few people can afford to work for free.
      (Also congratulations on the medical school acceptance! I got into my first choice as well, and I hope you’re as excited as I am!)

  165. No Name for My Question*

    So I was terminated from a job 7 years ago. I was too immature and “proud” to ask for help. Summary: 2 family members diagnosed with cancer, fiancé dumped me and had major family problems in a 4 month time span. I handled it badly with being unpleasant to work with, did poor work, and regret my behavior.

    https://www.askamanager.org/2017/01/open-thread-january-6-7-2017.html#comment-1319506 is original post

    An interview this week shook my confidence in my explanation. I’d used this wording another poster suggested. “I was dealing with major family issues in my personal life and was fired when I didn’t handle it well and it impacted my work. Although it’s unlikely I’ll have issues that significant again, I’ve worked hard to ensure that it won’t affect my work if it happens.” It was an interview at a non-profit organization with the executive director, her assistant and 4 board members. The director wasn’t moving past my explanation. “How EXACTLY have you addressed this”? She kept asking about this for nearly 5 minutes, wanted specifics of my “family issues” and kept asking “how did this affect your work”.

    I’ve went to counseling since then and said “I’ve worked on this with a counselor and am realistic when I need to ask for help so it won’t negatively impact my work again. I wish I had handled my situation differently but have made great progress since then. It hasn’t been a problem in my current job and my workload has tripled since I started in November 2010”.

    She asked again “Why didn’t you ask before? Wouldn’t Teacups Inc. have helped you or relieved your workload”? Well my prior employer couldn’t have because they were short staffed (My current job hired me 5 months after I was fired and I’ve been here ever since).

    Should I handle this differently? Should I answer this question differently in the future?

    1. Argh!*

      I’d feel uncomfortable with details, but they probably want to know if you were a drama queen, depressed on the job, or called in “sick” too often. If you could come up with some kind of dip in your life since that time you could use that experience to show how much better you cope now they’d be happy to hear about that. “Two years ago my new approach was put to the test when blah blah blah happened, and I’m happy to say I coped with the situation without it having any impact on my work.”

    2. fposte*

      No, I think it’s fine; it’s just no answer can completely stave off the concern a past firing will raise in a prospective employer. I think your interviewer took it farther than she needed to, especially considering the time since the event.

    3. Undine*

      It sounds like she went over the line. But next time, to “Why didn’t you ask before?”, you can say, “You’re absolutely right, and next time I will work with my employer. That’s one of the things I’ve learned.”

      1. LCL*

        She did push it too far. If you are young, I would blame it on your age at the time. Just say you didn’t have the maturity to recognize you needed help. EVERYONE changes and matures tremendously between their early and late twenties. If you do get this job, the director will be very unpleasant to work with. She will ask, whenever things don’t go as planned ‘why did you do that?’ instead of what happened. And she will keep asking.

        1. No Name for My Question*

          I agree and don’t think the job would be a good fit. I was 24 when I was fired and it was my first professional job. Before that I’d worked part time retail while in college.

          There really is a lot of maturing that happens in your 20s.

      2. No Name for My Question*

        I like this line. It really is something I’ve learned too. In my immediate family if you ask for help it isn’t received well. But all that’s been worked on in therapy too.

    4. Princess Carolyn*

      Do you often get asked about something that happened seven years ago? That would surprise me. I can see how someone would want some specifics about the problem and how you addressed it if it were a somewhat recent situation. Or if you were fired for doing something terrible.

      1. No Name for My Question*

        It’s just been a “why did you leave this job” and a brief explanation and we’ve proceeded in the interview. In interviews with 2 other companies I was a finalist. Thankfully it hasn’t seemed to hold me back so far.

  166. Clairels*

    Has anyone every been stuck in limbo while waiting for a work visa for a job in a different country? How long did it take? It’s been about a month and half. We’re dealing with government bureaucracy and the mentality of “they get to it when they get to it.” The company that wants to hire me is giving me freelance work to do while I wait, but in the meantime, I’m not currently employed full-time so I’m stuck at home going nowhere, waiting for my life to start. I can’t really tell anyone what’s going on because there’s still a tiny chance the permit won’t go through.

    I haven’t been applying for other jobs just in case, because it doesn’t feel like a good use of my time, even though a few people have suggested that I should. My future boss has been keeping me informed and says everything is fine, but I have this thing in the back of my mind that says, what if this whole thing is a sham and someone is jerking me around? I don’t know what I’m really asking—just hoping for some advice/reassurance from anyone who might have been through something similar.

    1. AlaskaKT*

      Not me, but my mother tried to get a work visa for another country, her visa finally showed up where she had been staying the day after she’d left the country and moved back home. She lived there for 6 months waiting. I doubt it will take that long for you (hopefully). My mom’s only took that long because the whole gov was currently in upheaval due to rooting out corruption related to visas.

      1. Clairels*

        Yikes! Thanks for the input. I feel that the country I hope to move to is going through something similar; they claimed to have cut the wait time down to a month starting this year but clearly they’re still working on it. I guess being stuck in my own country without a visa is not as bad as being stuck in a foreign country without a visa.

  167. Abby J*

    I have a benefits question, and I haven’t been able to find anyone in my circle of family/friends who has encountered a similar scenario, so I thought I’d turn to the AAM community for their expertise:

    I started a new job a little over 6 months ago. The company offers two healthcare options, through two different providers. One is an HMO and the other is a PPO. For a variety of reasons, I chose the HMO, and it’s been okay so far. In a few months, however, my circumstances are going to change a bit – I’m getting married, and I want to add my husband to my policy because the plan his employer offers is kinda crappy and expensive. He has more numerous health care needs than I do, and needs to continue seeing specialists with whom he’s established treatment plans (not possible with an HMO). We’re also going to be moving, and the HMO hospital and urgent care center will no longer be convenient to where we live/work.

    So, all that being said – is it a huge pain in the butt if I ask HR to switch my insurance? Is that something that’s done routinely? Do I need to wait for an open enrollment period (the company hasn’t announced one yet, and I haven’t seen anything in any of the HR manuals)? I just don’t want to be an inconvenience to anyone, and I feel bad that I wasn’t able to foresee the issues I’m now encountering with the HMO provider.

    Thanks!

    1. Emi.*

      My guess is that you’ll have to wait for open enrollment. Getting married is probably a Qualifying Life Event, but my understanding is that they might just let you change your level of coverage on the same plan instead of switching plans entirely. But why not ask? It certainly shouldn’t be a pain for them to tell you “Yes, that’s a thing” or “No, that’s impossible.” And if it is possible-but-a-pain, you should not feel bad about that. It wouldn’t just be a favor–they get paid!

    2. LQ*

      I’d definitely ask. Marriage can absolutely let you change over your stuff here. But this is a pretty easy question for them to ask. I’d just send an email to someone and explain that you’re getting married and you want to update your insurance to the new version because of that. This is their job, let them help! Asking won’t (at any reasonable and most unreasonable employers) be an inconvenience. Ask!

    3. atexit8*

      You can’t just switch unless the reason is a “life event” such as an adoption or a birth or possibly your husband lost his job.

      1. Natalie*

        Assuming the insurance allows spouses, getting married and now having a spouse that qualifies for your insurance is also a qualifying event and will allow her to add the husband outside of open enrollment.

    4. Nan*

      Usually marriage counts as a life event and you can make a change, but you have a short window in which to do so.

      Also, check with your benefits person, many employer plans no longer allow for you carry your spouse, if your spouse has access to insurance through his employer. You don’t want him to drop his coverage and then find out he can’t be added to yours.

    5. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Marriage should be a “qualifying life event,” so you should be able to change your plan. This is not a big deal and HR will be able to handle it without complication.

    6. Ribbon*

      I had a somewhat similar situation – got married last summer and wanted to immediately get husband on my insurance to save money, and also wanted to change insurance plans. I just e-mailed my HR rep and was told that switching from PPO to HMO or vice versa was allowed at the time of a qualifying event, but I couldn’t switch from one company to another if they were both PPO, for example. I’d recommend asking your benefits coordinator/whoever handles that in your office.

      1. LadyKelvin*

        Same here, I was able to be added to my husband’s insurance when we got married, but we weren’t allowed to change our coverage (like from a high deductible to a full coverage plan). So you probably can add him but you might not be able to switch from HMO to PPO until open enrollment. This is definitely a question for your HR people though. Every company is different.

    7. lfi*

      because you have a qualifying life event outside of annual enrollment, you can change your plan at that time in addition to adding him. :)

    8. mreasy*

      I got married within the past year and my HR told me that it counted as a Qualifying Life Event. So you should be able to change your plan as needed. I don’t think your insurer will make you keep the HMO vs. moving to PPO if you’re changing your policy otherwise, because logically when covering two people, there could be good reasons (like the ones you cite) to change more about your coverage than simply number of people covered. I wouldn’t worry about it and would just ask HR.

  168. Emi.*

    Dear teachers,
    If you’re writing a recommendation letter so a middle-school girl can go to STEM camp, please, for the love of Emmy Noether, tell us about her skills, her abilities, her accomplishments, her career goals, or her enthusiasm for science. Please do not send us a single nother letter about what a friendly person she is. Please.

    1. fposte*

      There’s a Twitter hashtag waiting to be born here. #STEMgirlrecs? “Marie Curie just glows with enthusiasm.”

    2. Argh!*

      HBR.org has several articles about the way that women are described in performance reviews compared to men — same stuff. It’s distressing to hear that it starts so young, but that explains quite a lot!

      1. Emi.*

        In fairness, all the letters I read were for girls, so I don’t know if boys would’ve gotten better ones. Maybe middle school teachers just don’t know how to write rec letters?

        1. fposte*

          Definite possibility there. Also that they may not know the kid all that well and were flailing for something stronger than “never sets fires.”

        2. LizB*

          Entirely possible… and also possible that when you deal with middle schoolers all day every day, one of them being friendly can actually make them stand out in a good way. I love working with young people, but I’ve definitely had my share of “this kid is an asset to my classroom because they’re don’t act like a total glassbowl despite being thirteen” reactions with kids of all genders. I wouldn’t write it into a recommendation letter because it’s irrelevant to science, but I’ve thought it.

        3. Humble Schoolmarm*

          It’s not something that middle school teachers are called upon to do very often. Does your reference paperwork specifically ask for the things you mentioned that you want? I might also keep in mind there may be excellent candidates who just don’t have much in the way of achievements, skills and career goals yet. For example, if I had to write such a letter, I might not say friendly but I would say ‘She is curious, enthusiastic and has a great interest and passion for lobsters.’ From the sounds of what you’ve posted that sounds insufficient, although I think she would gain a lot from a similar program.

  169. Not very roomy*

    So I have an issue with people hijacking my meeting rooms. It’s happened at least 8 times since the beginning of the year and I need to keep rescheduling things because other people need the rooms. I schedule them weeks in advance, but I’ve been asked on the day before and even the hour before to change rooms. This most recent time nobody even told me, and a different team just came in and sat down even though they didn’t have it reserved. I am required to hold these meetings but it is becoming more and more difficult when I don’t have a place to have them. A lot of the time we just end up holding them in an empty office that doesn’t even have enough chairs for everyone. People need to sit on the floor. I’m at a loss about how to handle this because sometimes it is the CEO or department directors that need these rooms. Any advice?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      We often encounter issues where the meeting prior to ours runs long, delaying us from getting into the meeting room at our schedule reservation time. In those cases, we interrupt their meeting and say, “sorry, we have the room beginning at 2pm” and proceed to stand there until they leave. If you haven’t been doing this to let people know they’re infringing upon your reserved meeting room time, that’s your first step.

    2. LizB*

      Sounds like your company doesn’t have enough space for the volume of meetings you host, unless for some reason you’re the only person whose meetings get hijacked (which would be weird). Have you brought this concern up to your manager? What did they say? If you have to hold these meetings, they should help you find a space that isn’t going to be needed. They also might be able to help you navigate when it may make sense to push back against changing rooms — obviously if the CEO needs a space you should move, but if it’s peers or someone one level above you may be able to say “Sorry, I do really need the room.” If there are no spaces in your building, can you hold them at a local coffee shop/library/other offsite place?

    3. Undine*

      Sounds like you don’t have enough meeting rooms. You should raise it with your boss. “We are really suffering from a lack of meeting rooms. I need to hold the Chocolate Melt meeting every Pluterday, but I’ve had to move it three times because the Supreme Commander of White Chocolate had a meeting. Are there any plans to address this? We can work with it temporarily, but it’s having an adverse effect on productivity.”

    4. Thlayli*

      I’m confused. If you’ve booked it then what happens are they just telling you “no we’re not leaving” that’s really weird. Anywhere I’ve worked whoever actually booked it has dibs and the other person has to leave no matter who has seniority.

  170. ArtsNerd*

    (Links in sub-comment for moderation)

    So, I’ve been thinking a lot about the Ask the Readers thread on deadlines, and my chronic lateness in basically all things ever.

    And then I found this on the web site “Wait but Why”, which resonated SO WELL with me:

    “I’m late because I have a weird aversion to changing circumstances. Not sure what the deal is with this, but something in me is strangely appalled by the idea of transitioning from what I’m currently doing to doing something else. When I’m at home working, I hate when there’s something on my schedule that I have to stop everything for to go outside and do. It’s not that I hate the activity—once I’m there I’m often pleased to be there—it’s an irrational resistance to the transition. The positive side of this is it usually means I’m highly present when I finally do haul my ass somewhere, and I’m often among the last to leave.”

    Is it an ADHD thing? I dunno, but I’m so very excited to have this finally articulated for me in concrete terms that I can now take action to improve. Has anyone conquered transition aversion? What helped for you?

      1. Aspiring mathemagician*

        The procrastination post is possibly the first thing ever that makes me feel like it might be possible to procrastinate less. And I have seen, heard and read a lot.

    3. Manders*

      I used to be chronically late and I’m now chronically early. What helped for me:
      * Forcing myself to stick to a sleep schedule so I’m actually awake in the morning
      * “Putting on my face” before I leave for a party by putting in contacts, changing my clothes, and doing something bold with my makeup
      * Always building 20-30 minutes of getting ready time into my schedule and having a firm “must be out the door” time in mind
      * Not doing anything that requires intense focus right before I have to leave home
      * Making the process of getting where I need to go as pleasant as possible so I’m not annoyed about the journey itself
      * Getting a group together instead of trying to make plans with individual people who have a high chance of flaking out, because their flakiness disappoints me and feeds into my flakiness

    4. fposte*

      It could be an ADD thing; I have, I suspect, mild adult ADD, and while I don’t have a lateness problem I have a big transition problem. It’s those moments when I finish task A and need to decide whether I’m doing task B, C, or D that I’m most at risk of flailing and stalling out rather than doing any of them.

    5. JulieBulie*

      I have ADHD and OMG a gigantic lightbulb went off when I read your post. Yes. So this is a thing, and now I know what it’s called. (OK, I’ve been calling it “inertia,” which is similar, but “transition aversion” is actually more accurate.)

      A lot of my transition aversion is based on how many steps to get from here to there. Showering is a big step. Making something to eat, and then eating it, are big steps. Cleaning up is a big step which I usually postpone, much to my recurring dismay. Driving is another big step.

      All of those steps are quite doable on a good day. But on a bad day, just “put on slippers” and “go downstairs” seem like two impossibly fraught and insurmountable steps.

    6. Elizabeth West*

      Oh yeah the monkey thing!

      I don’t know about ADHD, but I’m late a lot because as part of my dyscalculia, I have trouble judging the passage of time as it relates to tasks like getting ready, especially in the morning. I’m rarely late to anything in the afternoon. I cope by trying to have as much stuff ready the night before as I can.

  171. Death Rides a Pale Volvo*

    So Mr. Death Rides a Pale Volvo had a job interview yesterday, and has another one next Tuesday! Whoo-hoo!

    He was pleased with his interview from the other day, but was irritated with 1 of his interviewers. This is the person he’d be replacing if he got this job. Background: it’s for IT at a private school.

    First, the guy lets it be known that there’s one direct report. Husband says: “Oh, OK, when will I be meeting with that person?” Guy is offended and said “What do you want to do that for?” Husband: “I’m assuming the direct report would have some voice in who’s going to be managing him going forward…” Guy: “NO.”

    Then, the guy kept bringing up: “Well it seems here you’re a Mac guy, there’s a lot of Mac stuff in here…” Husband: “I have a long history of supporting mixed platform environments. For instance [example]” Guy: “Yeah we don’t have any Macs here. Can you support PCs?”

    Then, after Husband explains to the group how he rebuilt the network at his previous employer, putting in a WiFi network, upgrading the servers, starting a computer leasing program, etc., Guy looks up and says, “Yeah, but as a Mac guy, what’s your experience with networks?”

    Husband said to me, “If this were the sitcom version of my life, I’d have hollered “DID YOU NOT PASS LISTENING FOR COMPREHENSION?” ”

    I said it sounded as if Husband did his best and if he doesn’t get this offer, it’s not on him. Sometimes you just can’t click, or sometimes people just hate Mac guys.

    1. Pineapple Incident*

      Oof that’s really annoying… interviewer sounds tone- and cue-deaf

  172. Amy*

    My supervisor and a co-worker in my department would bully me for a myriad of reasons. They always praised my work, but criticized my clothes, appearance, the way I talked, the way I walked, etc. Nothing I did was right.
    They started rumors and turned others against me. It was clique-y, so even upper management got involved in the drama.
    When I gave my notice, my supervisor was shocked. He said, “You don’t have to leave!” But it was clear that they didn’t want me to stay. (Or they did just to continue to scapegoat me and have someone to make fun of.)
    I overheard my supervisor say that I “was a good worker, but weird.”

    Is there any way of finding solace after being in a situation like this? I’m happy to be out of there, but I find myself still wondering why they hated me so much. I feel bad for wishing the place would shut down, but it was horrible and I feel like I wasted my time/life/etc.

    1. Emi.*

      Probably they hated you because they were insecure and petty. The only thing you did was be nearby. I’m sorry, that sucks. But I’d be stunned if it were actually about you.

    2. Grabapple McGee*

      Life is full of haters. Be glad you got out of there and look to the future. Don’t waste anymore of your precious energy thinking about them. They don’t deserve it.

    3. CM*

      This exact situation happened to a friend of mine! But it seems like she’s embraced where she is now and put the toxic workplace behind her. Some people are just terrible people. Oddly, when she’s run into her previously abusive coworkers, they now want to give her a hug and chat like they’re old friends.

    4. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      I have found that people that act like that have nothing rewarding in their lives, so it makes them feel better to put people down. Good for you for getting out of there, I wish you luck in finding a place with nice people!

    5. Cyberspace Dreamer*

      Tipping virtual hat to you Amy. I was not the subject of long term bullying but I was collateral damage as the result of a management coup at my last job. Although I was an accomplished worker, I was horribly treated by a new manager while HR and executives stood on the sidelines and watched. Although, That manager did not last long there, it was long enough to send me packing and several others lost their jobs as well. I later learned that a few of my colleagues who I respected and trusted became opportunistic and betrayed a number of us so they could advance. Was a painful experience and it took a while to get over it.

      Just don’t do what I did. For too long I relived the pain trying to figure out what I could have done differently to prevent what happened to me. But alas, I did what I was supposed to do. I did my job and did it well, the rest was out of my control, and my reward was maintain my integrity and the better job I occupy right now. Time and distance are your allies.

      Among your many rewards is the fact that you endured and moved on. Your departure your gain and THEIR LOSS! Keep your head up. You also have this great community of folks pulling for you.

    6. Close Bracket*

      I do hope you replied, “Oh, but I really want to.”

      My solace in that situation is that I am not there anymore and don’t have to be the butt of their petty machinations.

  173. Jules the First*

    OMG people – I had totally forgotten how exhausting it is to apply for jobs! I’m serious….I was headhunted into my last three jobs so I’ve not actually job-searched for ten years. I spent three hours today and got one finished…sigh. Admittedly I spent about an hour of that polishing my resume, but still; I’m wiped!

    Someone please tell me that the company that has been stringing me along for a month is about to offer me a job and I won’t have to do this any more….

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Oh crap I know. I hate it when I spend boatloads of time checking company reviews, filling out an application, and writing a cover letter and then I never hear a damned thing from the company. Urggh.

  175. Katie Elderberry*

    I just got back from an interview in DC (on K street). Wow! Is traffic always like that? I wore a black suit and blouse buttoned up to the neck and I embarrassingly sweated on the leather office chair, it looked like I peed! Oh well, it is what it is. The interview itself went well and the company seems great.

    1. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      Unfortunately, it probably is and with the humidity/heat currently here, being sweaty is very normal. Traffic in this area is always a bit nuts and congested. I was in DC for an event a few weeks ago and it took me an hour just to leave the city limits and then another hour on 395/95 to get home.

  176. Eyerolls*

    How do I coach a young intern to stop rolling his eyes when I ask him to complete a task? Even when I review tasks with him it seems as if he treats me the way a young boy treats their mom and rolls eyes, huffs, closes his eyes as if he’s irritated and says “yesss-uh *sigh*”

    FWIW he’s confided that he had a tough upbringing and I’ve talked to him a little outside of work about some personal things. Maybe he just sees me as a motherly figure but his behavior is not work appropriate.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Be direct! “I need you to stop rolling your eyes when I assign you a task, can you do that?”

      1. fposte*

        Yup. You’re the boss of him, and this is exactly the kind of behavior an internship is an opportunity to polish up.

    2. LK*

      I would call him on it innocently-seeming but clearly each time. “Oh, is something bothering you?” “You seem upset, is there something I should know about?” etc. Instantly responding in a way that lets him know you won’t just let him whine his way through the job forever should make him realize it’s not stopping you from assigning him work.

    3. Newby*

      If you are his boss, you can sit down with him and tell him that his behavior is not work appropriate and that you want to be able to give him a good recommendation when his internship ends but in order for that to happen you need him to start behaving more professionally. You can then give examples of unprofessional behavior that needs to stop (like rolling eyes). I’ve had to have these conversations with interns before and usually they shape up.

  177. Smiling*

    There was a post a week or two ago about being able to take leave without pay, but only with pre-approval. That got me wondering about how other companies handle this.

    Our support staff is all hourly. Everyone in the entire company gets up to 2 weeks of personal leave (combined sick leave and vacation) per year on an accrued basis. For hourly positions, people are allowed to take leave without pay. Just looking at the yearly hours for the support staff, they are each taking average of 1-3 weeks per year without pay.

    What is everyone else’s experience?

    1. KR*

      I’m in my first full time job which for the first 6 months only includes my mandated 3 sicks days per California law (I technically work for the recuriting company for the first six months). Before I worked 2 part time jobs so pretty much all of my time off was unpaid. I had some vacation and sick hours but not with the high paying technical job but with the retail.job, interestingly enough. Supervisor at technical job used to ask why I still bothered with retail job and my answer was always benefits.

    2. zora*

      My work is the same as yours, we get 2 weeks combined PTO for the first few years (you accrue increasing amounts as you are here longer). I got really really sick the first month I was hired on, so I blew through my PTO every month when I first started. I am also hourly and allowed to take unpaid leave. I only had a couple days of PTO banked by the holidays, I wouldn’t have been able to see my family for the holidays. I have probably taken 7-9 days unpaid since last September.

      I don’t think 2 weeks per year combined sick and personal is enough for people. I think it’s better than nothing allowing unpaid leave and I’m glad my work does it, and I’ve made it work financially. Because it’s more important to me to have time to see my family than get every dime of my salary. But I think it’s lame, and I think all companies should start at more like 3 weeks bare minimum and go up from there. Most other developed countries make it work.

  178. Ribbon*

    Thoughts on transitioning to a management role?

    I just applied for a job that I’m excited about for several reasons: shorter commute, higher salary, etc. The subject matter is very similar to what I’m doing now (think milk chocolate vs. dark chocolate teapots), except currently I am a one-woman show in my agency (so doing direct services to clients as well as creating/modifying the processes and making decisions) and the new job is providing some direct services while managing a program with four employees and an unspecified number of volunteers. I do have some experience supervising volunteers in the past, but no experience supervising employees, and I don’t know if that be a concern for the hiring managers. It’s also a transition from non-exempt to exempt – truly a management job with some direct services and of course the opportunity to make the big-picture decisions (which will use my subject matter expertise).

    Basically, I know we talk quite a bit about how promoting people who are good at their jobs into management sometimes is a disaster, managing people is a skill unto itself. So, I’m a little worried that I would be a bad manager or I would hate being a manager! Has anyone made this transition and have advice to shed? It may also be relevant that I’m not yet thirty and could be experiencing a major case of imposter syndrome.

    1. NW Mossy*

      I moved into management a little over two years ago, and just recently switched departments so I’m managing a new team. The grandboss who hired me into the first management gig was a first-time manager herself, and she gave me great advice that I’ve since supplemented from my own experience:

      * The nature of your days/weeks/months/years will change a lot, and more than you think. I found that the scale of time I use is really different now. In an individual contributor role, I was very much focused on what needed to be done that day/week. As a manager, I’m thinking much more often about strategies that might take months or years to come to fruition. There are days when I go home without having finished anything, so learning how to get satisfaction in good work done without endings is key.

      * Meetings are no longer separate from the job – they are the job. You will rarely be solely responsible for things anymore, so talking to others often and building ongoing conversations/relationships is really important. Meetings are the primary vehicle to accomplish that, so you kind of have to learn to love them.

      * You will have to have a lot of uncomfortable conversations, and you will be dramatically better than the average manager if you consistently push yourself to have them rather than avoid them. It comes up most often in the context of giving negative feedback, and I found it helped me tremendously to frame it as me offering my directs insight they need to be effective in their jobs. Withholding information they need to grow is no kindness.

      * It’s OK not to be perfect at managing. No one is, at first. But if you’re able to listen and learn, treat people with respect, and keep your cool even when things are heated, you’re a good chunk of the way there already.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I seriously learned so much from this comment. Thank you! I think you’ve helped me understand my own managers better.

  180. The OG Anonsie*

    I have a real pickle. What do you do when you need to direct workflow through a group of contractors, over which no one actually has managerial authority, when they are being difficult? Double fun is that I’m also a contractor.

    We’ve been brought in for several specific project terms that overlap, which I’m supposed to be PMing. They are responsible for some of the technical pieces.

    They give me a lot of the typical trouble you get as a PM (won’t provide status updates, don’t pay attention to the details of requests, disappear for periods of time, get huffy when asked to do things they don’t like) only no one has any authority with which to reign them in since they’re not employees and have no managers. I’ve been very Alison-direct over and over about what I/we need and why, as well as what is problematic and why. Their attitude is that they’re on contract and I can stuff it because they can do whatever they want. The company’s attitude is that this is the nature of the beast and I need to figure out how to work with them.

    They still mostly get work done and on time, but they bristle at small or simple requests (they say it’s “busywork” and I say they get to bill an obscene rate for it so why do they care, but they do) and requests for status or wanting to know their availability. So I often don’t know what they’re doing, when their progress is, when they will be available, etc. so when I need to provide status reports or gauge timelines I often don’t have enough information and it’s a problem.

    I’ve seen other people be very sweet and friendly and accommodating and it doesn’t get them any more cooperation than me being blunt, so I’m sort of at a loss.

    1. CM*

      Can you get the person you’re working with at the company to escalate to the contractors’ boss? You could prepare a report explaining what has happened and when. When giving it to the person you’re reporting to, tell them that while you have made [describe efforts] to work with the contractors, ultimately you don’t have the authority to change their behavior and need the company to complain to their boss. I would present it as “Here’s what I’ve done, here are the obstacles, if you want your project go faster and be more efficient, then you should do this” rather than “I can’t handle these contractors!”

      1. The OG Anonsie*

        The contractors don’t have a boss. It’s just them as solo 1099s (same as me). There’s no one to take it to. They have to be individually convinced not to have meltdowns where they ignore everyone for days at a time and do no work because the people who hired us asked them to make a language change to match other documentation or whatever.

    2. Voice from the wilderness*

      I understand from your post that they bill hourly.

      When you ask them for something and they give you a hassle, you can say something like “If you are too busy to do this the way I need, I’ll be happy to give this, and other future assignments to someone else, in order to lighten your load”.

      Money is a great motivator, and by making them realize that they’ll be getting less work, because of less cooperation on their part, you might find that they will fall into line.

      It just is showing them why it would be good for them to be helpful; because it would be beneficial to them, not you.

  181. Kristy H*

    Late in the day, but are there any military spouses out? Looking for some advice on how to navigate the job market after a move.

    I’m newly married and quit my job as a marketing manager to join my husband. Its going to be very obvious from my resume that I’m job hunting due to a relocation – if the interviewer casually asks what brought me to City X (an established military area), do I say “My husband’s job” knowing they’ll probably realize I’ll be in town for 3-4 years tops? Or do I say something more vague like “family”?

    I’m the type of person who likes to be social with coworkers, if the office culture allows it. My recent coworkers had regular happy hours and liked chatting in the break room, so they knew all about my family, hobbies, etc. I don’t want to hide that my husband is in the army once I’m on the job if it’s a social environment, so I’m afraid that if it came up during the interview stage and I don’t give a straight answer it’ll look like I was lying (or withholding the truth) during the application process.

    I also realize a “normal” job may no longer be in the cards, but with all of the major changes going on in my life, I’m hoping to return to the routine of going to an office.

    1. Kristy H*

      I (poorly edited) my first paragraph – was supposed to say out there! I’m typing from my phone while the movers pack our house :)

    2. Grabapple McGee*

      Former military spouse here. And now live in a military city.

      I don’t think you’ll have any problems as far as what you are thinking. Employers in military cities understand that it can be a bit transient. Tell them proudly that you are the wife of someone serving!! (And thanks for his and your service!)

      Granted it was years ago, but when my husband was active duty, I ended up working on base. There are plenty of places on post that hire civilians, maybe you can look into that. The other idea would be to possibly freelance or accept temp work. That was another thing I did. I took a temp assignment at the local civilian hospital helping them categorize records. I realize that isn’t in your careeer field but it was good option for me at the time knowing that it would end at a certain date.

    3. Jennifer Kready*

      I’m a former military spouse (still married to my retired husband)

      Your marketing skills would be welcomed on a military post, but being hired through the civilian DoD system can be trying, although marketing positions are usually NAF (non-appropriate funded) positions and hire in a different manner (get used to the acronyms).

      As another poster said, in a military town they know spouses leave. Be honest and open to their questions but reinforce the fact that you’re there for x years (if you know it could be 2-3) and you’re awesome at working on deadlines and here’s your portfolio and keep being positive about you and less about him/his military.

      Do you feel comfortable doing freelance? You may find there are businesses willing to invest in your freelance work rather than hiring as a W-2 employee. Perhaps you can make a business out of it? If that might be a path of interest, I suggest looking at free resources through IVMF at Syracuse University – I did this one http://vwise.vets.syr.edu/

      As far as social goes, you’ll learn that military is very small despite how big the post is. We wary of talking about the military life, in social settings. Some spouses like to harp on it, complain and gossip. You are not the military. You are you and you have to forge a persona that is interdependent of it, despite being referred to as ‘the dependent’ and ‘spouse’ and ‘Rank and Mrs.” This is a great time to set yourself up for success. Do it early otherwise you’ll be absorbed by a very big entity that can’t be forgiving.

      You’re welcome to reach out to me for more ideas or just to chat. Been there, done that a few times over.

  182. Camellia*

    Just learned that my company has purchased Taleo. They referred to it as “the Cadillac of talent acquisition.”

    1. Jules the First*

      Well, it’s been my experience that a cadillac is full of things that are expensive, look good but don’t actually add to the functionality of the vehicle…and I suppose that would be a pretty fair analogy for Taleo. Commiserations…

    2. JulieBulie*

      I’m feeling so full of snark right now that I can’t even make a joke. I hate Taleo. Truly hate it. Was literally unable to apply to certain jobs because of how crappy Taleo is. I hope your company pushes that Cadillac off a cliff.

  183. JoAnna*

    Just a vent. I hate Arizona’s unemployment system. In order to qualify, I have to apply to four different jobs on four different days per week. And even though I’m disqualified from payments until after 5/20 due to my severance package, I still have to apply every week (the instructions specifically say you must still file a claim each week even if you are temporarily disqualified in order to receive benefits after your disqualification ends).

    It is such a waste of my time to apply for jobs I’m not qualified for or don’t want just to fulfill some arbitrary quota, and it’s a waste of time for the people trying to fill those jobs, too.

    2. Jules the First*

      I sympathise. I’m currently trying to decide whether it’s worth jumping through all the hoops here to claim my £73/week, given that what I do is fairly specialised and you are at the absolute mercy of your “work coach”, who decides what you must apply for and can stop your benefit for up to three years if you so much as turn down an interview, let alone a job offer. Oh and did I mention that I’d have to appear *in person* at the job centre (more than an hour away) every two weeks to get the cash?!

      I’m leaning towards “not worth it”…

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        Are you on contributory or means tested JSA/ESA? If it’s means tested it may open or close doors to other benefits – have a look at the benefits calculator on the Turn2Us website. Also, check if not claiming will affect your NICs.

        You might be able to get help with travel – check whether the jobcentre offers help or if your local council has a bus pass scheme.

        All that said, sometimes it’s not worth it. I claimed contributory ESA while off sick from my freelance business when I had a minor breakdown and the many many many letters caused so much extra stress (‘brown envelope syndrome’) that when I had another difficult period my husband suggested I skip the claim as the mere thought of it was making me more unwell.

        1. Jules the First*

          It would be contributory JSA – I don’t qualify for means-tested anything because I have too many assets (yeah. Because I’m clearly going to sell my pony and my 200-year-old violin in order to make ends meet…). Good point with the NICs, though – guess I’ll call an advisor on Monday and check.

          Really I’m just hoping to get a decent job before my severance runs out.

    3. Shadow*

      That’s a really controversial topic-whether unemployment is there for you to find a job you’re interested in or until you find any work at all.

      1. Jules the First*

        I’m absolutely in favour of getting people to be realistic about their employment search. But I can’t help feeling like there’s got to be a more nuanced way to support people through that process than forcing them to jump through a million hoops from day one…

        The contrast between the application materials in Canada (where the approach is very much “we’re sorry you’re out of a job, here’s how we can help”) and in the UK (“you are dishonest layabout scum who would happily live off the taxpayer for all eternity if we didn’t make your life miserable”) is enormous, especially considering the difference in funds paid out (in Canada, I’d be eligible for a maximum of $19k in benefits over 36 weeks; in the UK, I max out at less than £2k paid over 26 weeks).

        Hmmm. Guess I picked the wrong country to call home….

      2. JoAnna*

        It wildly differs by state, Jules. My husband received unemployment when he lived in Minnesota, for example, and he just had to call in to an automated phone line (this was years ago when not everything was online) and verify through pressing 1 repeatedly that he was still unemployed and looking for work. That was it. Other states have easier processes. But AZ is much more difficult. And the max benefit is a measly $240/week. It beats nothing at all, granted, but it’s a fraction of my former salary.

      3. JoAnna*

        re: finding “any work at all” – sure, I guess I could apply at McDonald’s or wherever, but after childcare costs I’d be losing money. Plus I’m sure McDonald’s would be annoyed if they hired and trained an employee who left the minute she could for something in her field that paid more. Isn’t it better for me to find a job similar to what I was doing before, with a similar pay grade, that I’ll hopefully stay with long-term? How does AZ’s system help me do that by essentially forcing me to apply to jobs that I don’t want?

  184. Anxa*

    I work from home some days (rarely), sometimes by webcam.

    My upstairs neighbors are heavy stompers. There’s a lot of impact noise and some rattling. This is new development in the past month (new tenants, I think).

    I don’t see the noise issue being resolved. I’m thinking that it may be time to cut ties with my remote employer, but I’m thinking of how I would word this explanation on applications for “reason for leaving.”

    Do these seem appropriate?:
    “Home environment changes made working from home untenable”
    “Sudden noise increases reduced ability to provide quality service”
    “Loss of access to home office to facilitate remote working”
    “Change in living situation”
    “Inability to maintain appropriate video and sound quality”

    Even if my computer mic doesn’t pick up on the noise, I find it very difficult to understand the other party. Plus I find the irritation to be distracting as well (there’s no noise cancelling possibilities as it’s impact noise).

      1. Anxa*

        That’s perfect, thank you!

        I thought they felt too detailed, but didn’t want to give something too vague or generic either that was basically a non-answer.

  185. The Intern*

    After a lot of rejections in a competitive field, I was finally offered an internship for the summer at a company I’m really excited about. I’m in a field where it’s expected that interns will be paid, but the job posting I applied to just says “compensation depends on experience” and there’s been no mention of pay rate so far. The person I interviewed with let me know she’ll send the paperwork for the internship as soon as she finishes it (I start in a week and a half), but I’d like to know the pay rate before moving forward. Any thoughts on how to tactfully ask without being off-putting?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I’m confused — did you accept the internship without knowing what they rate of pay was first, or are you still in the interview stage? If the former, it’s not off-putting to want to know how you’re going to be compensated for a job. I am actually concerned that it wasn’t discussed and agreed upon prior to you accepting the internship. At this point, you should say something like, “I can’t believe I haven’t asked this yet, but can you let me know what the pay rate will be for the internship and what the structure of the pay is? (hourly, weekly stipend, etc.)”

      1. The Intern*

        I’m post-interview, but just received the informal offer saying they’d like to bring me on for the summer and will send the formal offer and paperwork soon. So I haven’t accepted yet and wouldn’t do so without knowing the pay rate. I agree that it definitely should have been stated during the interview, but didn’t quite feel comfortable asking since it was early in the hiring process.

        1. Not a Real Giraffe*

          Ah, got it. It’s totally normal not to know the rate of pay until you receive the formal offer (though typically they would share that during the informal offer, or you could have asked then). Your formal offer will (or should) contain the pay rate, so you can just wait for that to come through and review before you officially accept. If for some reason it doesn’t contain the info, just be straightforward and ask what the internship pays. It feels like an awkward question, but most people understand compensation is an important consideration.

          1. The Intern*

            Thanks for your input! I went ahead and asked in my response to the informal offer after confirming that I’m excited about the internship.

  186. Buu*

    The job interview I was waiting for finally happened and I should know in a couple of weeks. I’m very excited and also nervous as it’s a massive step up if I get it. I’d be going from mid level at my current place to establishing a new ( 1 person ) dept in a small company. I get to define my role my pretty much but it’s exciting and scary. Thanks to everyone here ( and Alison’s articles) who’ve helped me get this far. If I don’t get it I think it’s been my best interview performance yet.

    Any advice on taking this kind of job? I’ve never been in a situation where I’m the only person of my discipline in a company before, I have some ideas but have any of you ever taken a new job where the only person with the expertise to decide how and what is done on the job is you?

  187. MacAilbert*

    What are your opinions of beards in an interview? I currently wear a full beard, and I find I have major babyface without facial hair. I may be looking for internships in the geographic information systems analyst or urban planning fields soon.

    In fact, to compound on that, any dressing advice for someone who wears boots 24/7 (I have a weird gate that regular length boots [as opposed to mid or ankle] really help, and shoes aren’t comfortable because of it) and is noticeably overweight? My current job allows jeans, so I wear hiking boots (my ideal shoe), but I can’t match those with slacks.

    1. Rincat*

      1. I think a well groomed, basic beard is perfectly acceptable most places. By basic I mean no handlebar mustaches or mutton-chops-only kind of things. I’d keep it close to the face but it doesn’t have to be fully shaved down.

      2. There have been a few discussions of interview boots in various open threads, but I think the consensus is that if you can find a black boot or something that is very basic (like solid fabric/leather, not something with mixed materials or reflective bits or whatever), then a boot is acceptable as well. Also I’d match it to the color of your pants. If you search the website then I think there are some specific brand recommendations.

      *I say most places, of course if the industry you are interviewing in is super conservative take that into account. I hope this helps!

    2. Stephanie*

      Neat, short, well-groomed beard should be fine. Like the above commenter said, avoid anything conspicuous like mutton chops or handlebar mustaches unless you know you’re in an industry where that’s ok.

      My last job didn’t allow beards for management or customer-facing employees. But we were a conservative company in a conservative industry. You’d probably have an idea if you worked somewhere like that.

      1. MacAilbert*

        Yea, we geographers lean more liberal, and I live in the San Francisco Bay Area.

        I keep a relatively short full beard. Nothing crazy or outlandish, just something to keep my cheeks and jaw covered. Though, I will admit I had some sweet mutton chops a few years ago.

      1. MacAilbert*

        I’ve seen a lot of dress boots that come up an inch or two above the ankle. Those would be called mid length if they were hiking boots, and they aren’t really long enough for me. Full length basically means the same length as the typical steel toed work boot.

    4. MechanicalPencil*

      My SO has always had a neatly groomed beard that he maintains well (for context, he’s the vp of business development for a successful company). I think so long as you’re not an extra for Duck Dynasty, you’ve got it made.

      I’m not sure about your regular boot comment — so hiking boots that I’m used to cover to the lower calf/above the ankle. Can you get a similar adjustment to your gait with a nicer leather dress shoe that a pair of bootcut slacks would cover? Maybe some inserts?

      1. MacAilbert*

        I’ve owned dress shoes, and without the ankle support they just hurt. I’m wondering about either plain black motorcycle boots or work boots.

    5. Kieraine*

      I’m in GIS and the some of men in both fields I know have beards. Beards that are well maintained shouldn’t be a problem (I’m in Alberta, Canada).

      Dark boots with slacks is my recommendation for your interview. The everyday work wear for GIS/Urban planning I’ve observed is casual to business casual.

      Good luck!

  188. Wendy*

    I have a BA in Creative Writing (2003) and a MA in International Relations (2005) and am now completing an Associates Degree in Accounting. I work as Office Manager / Administrator and have over 10 years of professional work experience. I’m ready to make the move into Accounting because I’m down to needing only 2 accounting classes to complete my degree (and a handful of non-accounting but required classes). Advice for places to network for accounting jobs (Boston, MA)? Accounting specific job boards? Unfortunately my current job doesn’t involve any direct accounting and there’s no opportunity for me to take on work outside my defined role.

    1. Luisa*

      My boyfriend is a career-changer accountant in Boston. He started off doing general administrative assistant stuff at a small company (not an accounting firm) and built up a good enough reputation that when they decided they needed someone doing full-time bookkeeping, they put him in that role. He then went to work as an accounting temp for Robert Half which eventually led to getting hired on full time by one of the companies where he temped. He started a Master’s in accounting shortly before he went to work for Robert Half and completed it last year. He’s since received a promotion at the company he works for (after about 1.5 years at that company).

      I definitely realize that leaving a full time position to temp in another field is not an ideal option for everyone, but in this case it worked out, so maybe it’s something to consider? If not, maybe looking for accounting or bookkeeping positions at companies outside the accounting field? (BF’s current position is with a law firm, and they have hired entry-level folks without accounting credentials [usually smart people with admin experience who they can/do train] in the past.)

      1. Wendy*

        I can’t quit to temp until my unemployed spouse is no longer unemployed, otherwise this is an option I would pursue – so I think it’s good advice! But the pay for temps is usually a bit lower and on one income we need the stability and salary of my current job. Does your boyfriend have suggestions for networking groups in Boston? It’s nice to hear a success story!

        1. Luisa*

          He was paid so poorly that going to the temp salary was actually a slight bump, but hopefully that isn’t the case for you! Part of the reason he got hired on as a temp at his current company (the one that he now works for directly) was that the company had good experience with RH temps in the past. Beyond that, most of the networking he did was through classmates in his accounting degree program who were already employed in (or close to) the field – for example, he met with some folks who do accounting for various non-profit and government organizations through classmate connections. (He works for a private firm now but is interested in moving towards non-profit/government in the future.) He’s been lucky enough to not have to do much job searching in the accounting field yet so he doesn’t have much advice there unfortunately!

  189. gotta stay anonymous*

    I am really late to this thread, so I hope someone sees this!

    I am in the United States. A director of one of the functional areas of our organization is a US citizen, but born in a different country. She is in her mid to late 50s and moved to the US to attend college and has been working and living here since then. Her spoken and written English is very bad and everyone excuses her because she’s from a different country. In fact, she gets others to write her emails for her. I am scratching my head, wondering how she’s gotten as far as she has with her communication challenges.

    I will admit that I am bothered by this employee for other reasons. However, she’s been working and living in this country for over 30 years. Does this seem normal? I have worked with many others who spoke English as a second language who did not have this problem. And I have one family member in particular who is a national of a different country, but lives and works in the US and speaks and writes English better than most native speakers, in my opinion.

    I know I am probably more annoyed by this than I should be and should just let it go. But does this seem normal?

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      I’d be annoyed a bit too. It’s somewhat normal in some areas and fields, especially academia and some highly technical fields. Some people are just really bad at learning foreign languages and she may fall into that camp. If her role is more technical and the poor English communication isn’t a deal-breaker, I think you just have to let it go.

      Is her work otherwise good? If it is, it might reduce your annoyance if you focus on her output and not her communication.

      1. gotta stay anonymous*

        Whether her work is good is up for debate. The field is not terribly technical. I think she had relied on others for much of her career and taken the credit.

    2. CM*

      No, not normal to live here independently for decades and study and work here but still not be able to communicate in English. (I would make an exception for somebody who lived most of their life in non-English-speaking spaces.) But… I don’t think it helps you whether it’s normal or not. It sounds like this person just annoys you in general and this is one of the reasons.

    3. Shadow*

      If she’s been at your org a while and has a decent record it would be hard to argue that her English is a problem.

      1. gotta stay anonymous*

        She is fairly new and has a questionable work record so far. This is but one of several concerns. There is a pattern of forgetting, not understanding, saying one thing and doing something else, and general poor communication.

    4. Bea W*

      I think it is odd for someone who attended school here. I suspect she got by in the same way, having others do the writing.

  190. Jessen*

    Agreed. And I think it’s confusing especially for trans* individuals because sexualization is one easy way in our culture to be read as “feminine.”

  191. Nancy*

    I’m in a rock and a hard place and I’m hoping to get some thoughts.
    I’ve been working at my current position for 8 years
    I have a Masters degree
    I basically have 2 full time positions under my title for the past 4 years
    To my knowledge all of my performance reviews are positive

    In the past 4 years I have not been given a cost of living or performance raise. I admit that I didn’t realize that I should advocate for it. We have been facing some tight budgeting the last few years, so I’ve also laid low in case positions needed to be cut.

    We are currently in our first official year with new leadership who I’ve had a chance to meet with and talk about my role and where I see myself. He definitely has given positive feedback in return. Currently, he is changing over his leadership team, which should be in place by July.

    I have to say that I’m struggling with the stress of my finances. I can say from my market research, I’m underpaid by about $15,000. I’ve cut where I can to make my bills less, I have a roommate and I have a weekend job. I’m in no way fiscally irresponsible (spending money on things I shouldn’t), but my expenses continually go up each year and my pay does not. I know the advice would be to look for another job and I have been and have gotten to second and third rounds, but no offers.

    I’m wondering if I should work on getting a pay raise with a new leadership? My ultimate hope is that there will be new positions or opportunities that come from structure changes and I can move into one of those. However, I don’t know the time table and I’m not sure how much longer I can deal with working 7 days a week, 8 hours a day and still not having stability (Its been 2 years). Should I approach the new president (if the opportunity arises) about feeling under valued and underpaid? Should I do the best I can to wait out until there might be some openings?

    FYI, I do like working there, I do believe in the new leadership and I’m excited for it. But 4 years of hoping and holding out is catching up to me. What’s a few more months after four years? If you were going to wait and see, what would be the length of time?

    1. Manders*

      I’m in a similar spot, although I got very lucky because I have a partner I can split expenses with. To be honest, I think when you’re struggling with your cash flow and you’re underpaid by over 10k, it’s totally reasonable to start eyeing the exits. Especially when you’re working full days 7 days a week–that is A LOT to expect from someone who’s not even being paid market rate.

      My advice: start putting out feelers now, because you might stumble across a perfect job and realize that you’re worth way more and deserve better working hours than you expected. A job search might take months anyway, so you can wait and see *and* get a feel for what’s out there beyond your current company.

    2. Wheezy Weasel*

      I’d be willing to give it 6 months after July. If this is something that the new president and leadership team see as a crucial issue for the company, they’ll take steps to let the company know how they plan to address it and with a timeline in place. If they don’t, that’s your answer: it’s not a crucial issue for the company and they will address other things first.

      Someone recently used the phrase ‘what’s your unfulfilled wish?’ and I started to use that as a way to reframe my own expectations. Is your unfulfilled wish that you’d get market parity in your current job? If that would require another 15k per year from your department or company budget, what is the relative likelyhood of that happening in 6 months? In my own company, the job market is getting so much better in the last 12 months that there has been an email from HR acknowledging underpayment and raises across the board. My wife just got a market parity salary adjustment with the same type of email at her company. Employers who want to retain staff probably should take pains to ‘message’ this ahead of the implementation, although not all of them do.

  192. Sue*

    I work for a small manufacturing facility, where I am the office administrator and inside sales support. I had planned to give my notice today. I have my letter of resignation written and have told my boss that I need to speak with him on no less than 3 different occasions today. Our head of HR happens to be his wife and she is out of town for the next 3 weeks. It is now down to the last 1/2 hour before the end of the work day for me now and he has left the office for an errand.

    I debate on whether to leave my letter of resignation on his desk and call his cell phone as I leave the office to let him know that I left it there or wait until Monday. Comments are welcome as to what you think would be a better choice.

    2. JulieBulie*

      Can you email it to him and follow up with paper on Monday?

      Ugh, it’s probably too late for that now… well, no, not if he reads his email over the weekend.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Do you need to do it today in order to give two weeks notice? If so, call him. This isn’t something you need to do by letter anyway; it’s a conversation. Call him, and if you get voicemail, leave a message and say you’re sorry to be doing it by voicemail but you haven’t been able to reach him all day and want to give him as much notice as possible, and that you’re available to talk any time on Monday.

      Do not just leave the letter on his desk. You may not even need the letter, unless he asks for one.

  193. Gotta Go Anon*

    Need to go anonymous for this.

    So, the past week at work I have been distracted by some personal life stuff. Long story short, my awful ex now knows where my kid and I live.

    Should I broach my distraction with my boss? If so, how do I do it?

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      If this is a safety issue, I would definitely mention this to security/HR so that they are nominally aware. Depending on your relationship with your boss, I would passingly mention bare details about it. It’s entirely possible that your boss hasn’t noticed your distraction.

      If at all possible, please have someone walk with you to your car and park in well tracked/surveiled/lighted areas. Please stay safe. I’m sure others have better tips for you.

      1. Gotta Go Anon*

        Well, I don’t know if it is a safety issue or not. He lives out of state, quite a few hundred miles away. Like multiple days worth of driving. So it’s not an imminent threat that I can use to file a restraining order (I checked). But it’s been nearly a decade without him knowing my address, and a few interstate moves.

        1. MechanicalPencil*

          Through a weird series of circumstances, I was somehow the responsible person for fire/general safety for my floor. Building security and the police officer who met with the various safety appointees encouraged us to share with employees that any restraining orders, difficult situations (which yours may qualify, up to you), should be shared with building security/our own company HR representative so that they could be aware and handle the situation appropriately. At OldJob, I trusted security to since…clear military experience, young and watchful. New job…donuts/naptime seem more likely. YMMV.

  194. Is it Friday Yet?*

    What is the dumbest thing you’ve ever had a meeting about? I work for a small company, and the owner LOVES meetings. On average we have 4 – 5 per day. I think one of the most pointless meetings that I can remember was an office-wide meeting to discuss getting a new coffeemaker.

    1. Rincat*

      Oh goodness. That sounds like a former director I had. She was a highly anxious, panic-driven micromanager so we had meetings about EVERYTHING that would last hours.

      The worst one was when she made the entire department – around 20 people – gather in a conference room to edit a document together she had written. She made us go through line by line. And of course she rejected all suggestions. That women was so anxious, I still feel bad for her.

    2. Wendy*

      That to enroll people in one of our systems with a username and password, I needed to provide their legal name to the system administrator instead of the name on their job application (since they aren’t always exactly the same, aka Matt vs. Matthew). There was a 45 minute meeting about this between me, my manager, and the system administrator, where established in detail what “legal name” means and dissected in detail the process for obtaining their legal name…and on and on….it was insane.

  195. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

    Hi all,

    Here’s my quandary of the week…

    My husband was out of work for most of the month of April on medical leave due to a gastrointestinal bacterial infection. When he returned to work, one of his colleagues, Willy, created a hostile work environment, and my husband had a nervous breakdown. Some of you may have seen my post last week about our terrible visit at the hospital I work at, and that visit was to seek treatment for the breakdown I’m writing about now.

    My husband has a history of depression and anxiety that have been well-managed with SSRIs until now. Willy has a spotty reputation with their employer, and up until the stomach trouble, my husband was widely regarded as the only person in the company who could “handle” Willy. Willy has run one coworker off of his and my husband’s shift by bullying, and almost got into a fistfight with a different coworker on one occasion.

    So, we’ve applied for him to be on FMLA and we are starting the process to apply for short-term disability payments. In the process of doing the disability paperwork, his HR rep said the leave was not work-related, which it is. His psychologist agrees that it IS work-related.

    Now I’m wondering if we should be pursuing this through worker’s comp, because even though he has a history of depression and anxiety, he had not missed any work at all in the past 3 years due to those conditions, so this is really and truly due to the work conditions.

    Does anyone have experience with this kind of situation that they would be willing to share?

    PS-for those that saw last week’s post about our bad experience, I’ve been in touch with our customer service personnel and we have filed a grievance without any reference to me being an employee. We will almost certainly not receive an HCAHPS survey because of the ER volume and type of care he received. Thanks to all who encouraged me to report!

    1. JulieBulie*

      Wow. I have no advice for you, but I wish you the best of luck however you deal with this. What a royal PIA. It should not have been your husband’s responsibility to “handle” a difficult employee.

      1. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

        Yeah, this whole process has been a nightmare.
        See my comment below – everybody actually thought hubby and Willy would hate each other, but they got along like brothers until last month. Everyone was amazed.

    2. Manders*

      My understanding of worker’s comp is that it can be a useful program if you have a physical injury, but it’s going to be very hard to get benefits for a mental health condition that’s exacerbated by a bad working environment. L&I lawyers usually let you have a free consultation with someone on their staff before they decide whether or not to take your case, so it wouldn’t hurt to call around and see what your options are, but I wouldn’t bank on being able to get worker’s comp.

      To be honest, if Willy’s boss hasn’t managed him out after all this bad behavior, it might be a good idea to start thinking about whether this is a company your husband can come back to safely. That’s so far beyond the pale, it makes me wonder what other dysfunction is going on at this company.

      1. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

        Well, hubby is really invested in his career, and to be fair, everyone aside from Willy has been very supportive. Generally speaking though, there is a good bit of dysfunction. They got a new director about 2 years ago now, and since then, not one person has received a performance evaluation, and only some staff have been allowed to apply for promotions.

        There’s supposedly an undercover effort to transfer Willy off of a shift-based position to a desk position, which would reduce his interactions with colleagues substantially, and he’s also gotten on the bad side of the director, so he might end up getting fired.

        Either way, if/when hubby goes back, he’ll be on a different shift. He’ll also eventually transfer to a similar organization in a nearby area where promotion opportunities are more plentiful.
        The crazy thing is, when hubby started on shift with Willy, everybody thought they would butt heads and they wouldn’t work well together, and to everyone’s surprise, they got along like peas in a pod. It was literally this one instance of medical leave and Willy like flipped this switch and turned into a crazy person.

  196. Palmer Biscotti Raviolio*

    Just realized my nonprofit organization doesn’t give raises. There’s a slight possibility one could be promoted, but it’s rare and my particular job doesn’t give room for one. How long do you think is appropriate to stay until I start looking for another job?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      It depends. What does your work history look like? If you have a bunch of shorter jobs on there, you should stay in your current role at least a year. If you’ve got a history of staying a while at jobs, you can get away with leaving ASAP. When you interview for new jobs, you can just say “My current workplace has no upward trajectory and I’m hoping to do XYZ.”

    2. fposte*

      If you leave at under year because of this, it looks like you think you should have gotten a raise already and/or that you didn’t adequately explore this aspect of the position before taking it; two years is safer.

    3. Shadow*

      Well at minimum your pay should increase with inflation and your value to the company. Seeing as most jobs anticipate a learning curve before you are fully up to speed you can argue that you likely don’t begin providing a return on investment until you really get comfortable with how to get things done (commonly 6mos-1yr). that said I think it’s reasonable to expect an increase by the 2 yr mark. If you haven’t gotten a raise by then a reasonable hiring will understand why you’re looking.

      1. Palmer Biscotti Raviolio*

        Okie, thanks. I’ve been here for over a year and no mention of me getting a raise. I’m not planning on leaving any time soon, but it started creeping into my thoughts. I’ve spoken with people who have been at the company for 3+ years and they said they don’t give raises, even when COL goes up. My first thought was, “Oh this is normal for nonprofits.” Others say, “No. Not at all.”

  197. PAanon*

    I’ve been in my first salaried office job for 2 years (before that I worked in elementary education but I had a business internship in college to pay the bills). It’s a small company so I have an impressive title and wear a lot of hats. My primary function is to keep day to day operations running smoothly including managing/coordinating a staff.

    I’ve developed some great skills while working here and I’m grateful the company took a chance on me since I transitioned from an elementary education background. However, I don’t like the culture being set by new management (classic manager who won’t manage and without their support I can’t get the resources to effectively do my job).

    My question is how do you find mid-level business roles when you’re young and your network isn’t extensive or include anyone with hiring power? What are some good roles for people with 2-3 years general business experience who’d like opportunities to grow and be more challenged but don’t know entirely what that will look like yet/what suits them best?

    Thanks!

    1. Ariel Before The Mermaid Was Cool*

      I would highly suggest working with an industry-specific recruiter. I was just toying with the idea of leaving my last job and decided to meet with a Robert Half accounting recruiter and she opened my eyes to some positions I’d never have found or considered on my own. Lo and behold, I’m in a new, better-paying job with comparable benefits developing some underutilized skills that I’d never have gotten to use at OldJob.

  198. spellyzunkles*

    I have a question for the editors/proofreaders and like. I have an English degree that has been languishing. I have found a job that would be perfect for me, short commute and pretty decent duties, but it requires heavy proofreading, which I am very rusty at. Are there any specific tools/programs/online classes that I could use to brush up on the proofreading skills? I seriously doubt my anal retentive attention to spelling errors will be high on their list. Thanks.

  199. Aiming too high?*

    Do you usually apply for jobs that you are perfectly qualified for, slightly under or over qualified?

    I am applying for jobs across the spectrum, and am only receiving interviews for positions that I am over qualified for (i.e. meet all of the qualifications, have prior experience with all of the listed job duties, and have more than the minimum years of experience). These tend to be either lateral moves or a step-down in my career progression. Is this normal?

    Ideally, I’d like my next position to be a slight step up, but maybe I’m aiming too high?

    Do employers only look at candidates that have prior experience with all of that job’s responsibilities?

    1. Anon Anon*

      I apply for jobs that are stretch jobs. I like my current job (well for the most part), so I’m not willing to leave for anything but a step-up. I think lateral moves are pretty common, but you shouldn’t have to take a step-down, IMO.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      It depends on what’s available. I’ve been applying based on what I’m able to do, which usually puts me in either a lateral or downward trajectory, because there isn’t a lot here. But I need a job.

      2. Just Moved*

        I hope I’m not too late!

        I just moved to back to the US to a new city I’ve never lived in before after completing a work contract in another country. Is it enough just to list my new city at the top of my resume to show employers that I am local or should I mention the relocation in my cover letter as well? I’ve also never listed my full address on my resume because I feel like it is too much information, but I’m wondering if I should do it now.

        I’m worried that employers aren’t looking at my resume because they see that my most recent jobs were in other cities. Is that a thing?

        1. Anna Held*

          I’d give your full address or mention it in the cover letter — probably both. This is a red flag for some people, and if they’re just skimming, they’re missing that you’re now local.

  200. Anon Anon*

    Excellent. I was just told by someone I work with not to cross them or I would pay.

    This threatening communication did not come from my boss or any of my co-workers instead it comes from someone outside of the organization that I occasionally work with. I’ve informed my boss and HR who agree it’s completely unacceptable. Granted, they won’t do anything about it, but I’m glad I’m glad that they recognize that sort of language is not acceptable. Not the best way to end the week.

  201. KR*

    Dear AAM, husband is deploying this weekend and my two coworkers who share my remote office with me will be away next week. My manager (also remote) will be dropping in that week but probably won’t be in the office a ton so I am going to be lonely. I want to find a way to ask if I can bring my dog to keep me company (he’s old and extremely polite and low energy – he would just sleep on a blanket or his small bed the whole day). We don’t have carpet, customers, dangerous chemicals or delicate things laying around. I know my manager likes dogs but I recently started working here so I feel like it’s too soon to ask. So I’m sad because I will be lonely and my pup cheers me up.

    1. fposte*

      Aw, I’m sorry; I can see that’s going to be a blue week. Can you print out a bunch of pictures of dog and husband and paper up your workplace?

      1. KR*

        That’s such a good idea. I might take a long lunch and go home to visit puppo and cat too.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          I think that’s your best course of action. I sympathize– believe me!– but unless bringing a dog has come up before, I’d leave the bud at home. My current office doesn’t allow dogs because of its lease. My boss has brought his teeny Yorkie in a couple of times (she’s old and anxious) and he almost got chewed out by the property manager. He’s the boss, though, so no company ramifications.

          However… you say you’re remote. Are you literally the only person in the office space? Do you have to go through a lobby to get to your space? If the answers to those questions are yes and no, respectively, then you can ask.

          1. KR*

            I am remote and we have no lobby. For most of next week I will be the only person in the office. I’ll hint at it and see if it goes anywhere.

            1. Bibliovore*

              For me given what you have said. I would ask. For me it makes sense. As a supervisor, I might ask. How big is the dog? Is it s noisemaker? Has it any aggressive history? (I would say no if there has been any biting incidents) How old? (old is better) Would you feel comfortable if the dog was leashed inside (that for me would mean that it isn’t wandering around making trouble)

            2. Thlayli*

              If you will be the only one there is there any reason you can’t just bring the dog in and say nothing? Check first if your coworkers are allergic to dogs tho. If he’s really that well trained then surely no one willl even know if hes there on days you’re all alone.

  202. NewManager*

    I have an employee that really struggles with reading directions through. If there is more than one request in an email, she frequently misses at least one of the asks. We’ve talked about this a couple of times, how she needs to slow down and be more thorough or develop a better checklist for handling the tasks assigned to her, but the problems tend to continue (or get better for a bit, but pop up again about a month later). The thing is, most of the things she misses aren’t crucial – either it’s something small that fell through the cracks and I have to follow up on, or she asks questions that were clearly outlined in the email. I try to format emails to her in the clearest way possible so all requests are obvious (steps or bullet points that she could literally check off).

    Does anyone have any suggestions on dealing with this? Any strategies for maintaining a “to-do” list that I could share with her?

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      If you haven’t already, ask her what she thinks would help. At those times when things get better, what is she doing differently?

      One idea might be to print the emails and cross out the bits she addresses as she does so. Do you definitely need to put these things together and not in separate emails? Do you definitely need to email and not discuss it in person? Given the choice I’d rather get verbal instructions and make my own notes in my own way. I can work from an email but someone else’s thinking, however logical, isn’t as helpful to my brain. I print them, black bits out with a Sharpie as I address them and make my own notes in a way that make sense to me. I am really productive and organised but I just cannot work from someone else’s list of instructions. I have to translate it into what works for me. Maybe she needs to do this too.

      As to maintaining a to do list, everyone finds different systems helpful – it needs to be something they’ll use e.g. wall planners don’t work for me as I don’t think to look at them. Some ideas here: https://www.askamanager.org/2013/12/whats-your-best-tip-for-staying-organized.html but ask her to think of a system herself.

      However is her issue keeping track of what to do, prioritising, or attention to detail? As they are not the same issue. She could develop a great to-do list system and still miss your requests and not put everything on the list.

      Also, how many of your instructions are specific to individual projects or tasks and how many are part of processes she should follow every time?

      1. NewManager*

        Thanks for this! It’s helpful for me to remember that just because I think instructions are clear to me, that may not be the case for other work styles. We’re not in the same office but do have regular phone calls – I’ll definitely ask her next time if it would work better for her to receive instructions verbally so she can make her own notes. I can then follow up with an email because I like to have the written reminder for myself if I need to followup on something.

        I know she does print emails with instructions out most of the time, but adding the part to physically cross of something when it’s done could be helpful. It’s not always me giving the instructions/tasks, so as much as I can try to help deliver info in the method that works for her, she also still has to be able to process information and complete work from other departments without skipping pieces.

        She’s generally really good with routine tasks/processes, these issues pop up with one-time projects or surrounding events that only happen once or twice a year.

    2. mreasy*

      There are people I work with like this. I just send everything in a separate email – which is aggravating, but works.

    3. Pineapple Incident*

      Super super late to the party- sorry!

      Not sure if you use outlook, but you can send a task request to someone through the system, or as a follow-up to an email at a specified point after its sent. My office sends biweekly or monthly reminders to certain other teams we work with- they’re downloads from our upcoming actions database in table format, grouped by type of action. The frequency of reminders depends on how often they need them-would you be able to do something like this for “asks” that come up more frequently?

  203. H.C.*

    Finally got around to listening to Planet Money’s “Speed Dating for Economists” (which was lingering in my podcast backlog for a while, and was recommended by Nancy B. on the May 5 open thread) – and I agree it’s a worthwhile listen.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/05/05/527087730/episdoe-769-speed-dating-for-economists

    My initial thought was YOWZA at the economist candidate featured on the podcast, who went through 22 interviews in 3.5 days (& had applied to 250 economist job openings) – yowza!

    I can see the economists’ argument of this “speed dating” concept leveling the playing field for both employers & candidates by having a once-a-year job fair/interview palooza, but I can definitely see this leading to analysis paralysis too, especially if you have numerous offers or qualified candidates.

  204. Anon4this*

    I could use some advice about how to deal with a problematic conference attendee.
    My work holds an annual industry-wide event attended regularly by prominent companies around the city/country. Last year, we had a new company with its CEO as its representative at the conference. She turned out to be a huge pain. She is combative, and spent a good part of her presentation last year attacking some of the other companies at the event for trying to undermine her company’s products, while undermining their products herself! She also ran way over her time limit, inconveniencing the already tight schedule.
    We kept her off the invitee list this year, but she proactively reached out to us, ranting about why she wasn’t notified of the opening of registration. As far as I know, it’s kind of an unwritten rule that even if you don’t agree, so to speak, with other conference attendees, you don’t publicly diss their products at an industry event. At least we don’t want that at our conference. I’m thinking of sending a response to her request that she can attend the event on the condition that she doesn’t undermine other companies’ products. Is this a good solution? What should I do? I feel weird reprimanding a grown adult.
    Sorry for this long doozy, but if anyone could advise me on this lovely weekend, that would be great. Thanks!

    1. Anon Anon*

      That’s rough. Even if you frame it as last year, being an oversight and unintentional, the attendee may become even more combative. But, it’s worth a try to see if she will alter her behavior. I’ve also discovered that many attendees like this are extremely entitled and feel as though you need to bend to their will. So it’s helpful to make sure that you have all the Critical decision makers on the same page so that she’s not running to your boss or someone she views as more important to get an answer she likes.

  205. Anonipotamus*

    My boss knows that I am leaving my job in the next few weeks, yet sent me an email expecting me to schedule an annual performance review. This is my first and last year at this job. I feel it’d be a waste of time to sit through a review. An exit interview, sure. A review, no. What is the point in talking about my goals and my growth and my areas for improvement when I’m not going to be working there soon? This is especially questionable since I’m leaving this field soon, and any future goals are going to be completely different soon. How do I gracefully opt out of this? Can I say that I’m open to a meeting, but not in the format of a performance review?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      It may be a departmental requirement. Ask your boss. If it’s required, just go through with it.

    2. Chaordic One*

      I don’t necessarily agree that it would be a complete waste of time to go through a review. It might be that your boss wants some feedback to see if you’ve grown since you started at the position and if there are things that he or she needs to improve on. Even if you are moving on, there might be some worthwhile feedback you could get from the process. OTOH, maybe not, but go through with it and see what happens.

  206. I'm bad at naming things*

    Long time reader, first time question asker. My question is this, since I know there a lot of librarians here, will working at a cannabis dispensary hurt my chances of being hired at a library? A little background, I have over 6 years experience in paraprofessional library work, but moved states and haven’t been able to get any library work. I recently, today in fact, accepted a retail cannabis dispensary position. My new life plan is to work at this place, finish my bachelors, continue on to my MLIS, while continuing to apply to library positions as they open up (if ever).

  207. Trix*

    Second week at the new gig down, and around 2:45 today, my boss im’d me to tell me to go home early, get a head start on the weekend, and enjoy the lovely weather.

    …

    I am still flabbergasted. Definitely would never have happened at my old job. So now I’m enjoying happy hour meat and cheese and bubbles on a lovely patio.

  208. Red*

    Hey guys,

    A couple of months ago I commented on one of these open threads about how I had given notice at work, and was subsequently being treated really terribly (I think at that point it had been nearly two weeks since the notice was given and my boss hadn’t spoken to me once…)
    Anyway, I want to thank you all again for your kind words! I survived the awful notice period, and walked out knowing I had made the right decision.

    I’ve been at NewJob for just over six weeks now, and I can’t believe how much happier I am! NewBoss is extremely pleased with me, NewCompany really cares about their employees and I feel like I’ve actually come home. I’ve even lost the irritating stutter I had picked up at OldJob.
    Never underestimate the difference a good job can make, and how much a bad one can affect you.

    Thanks again!

  209. between A, B and C*

    Hello fellows AAMers.
    My primarily job is as a part-time contractor in country A. I am currently pregnant (3 month), and will need at one point to tell my manager. I really love this job and feel really lucky to have it (working there for a little less than one year) and my manager* is ultra kind and a joy to work with (which is a really nice change for me)
    I would love to be able to annonce him the new framed as ” I will take the shortest leave I can and try to cause the least problem for you, I am here to stay, you can count on me!”.
    But.
    My husband is searching for work in country B (where there is really a lot of work in his field, contrary to country A where this field is nearly non-existant.
    So I don’t really know how to frame it in a way that’s keeping professional courtesy (as in going forward sharing information in an honest way so the company can organise what it need to do) and at the same time keeping doors open (because going to country B is really hard and there is no guaranty that my husband could find a company that would take the hassle of hiring a foreign worker, and in the meantime, even if in country A he only has access to small jobs, at least we have enough money to live and for now have a stable visa situation).
    So, how do you say “I am really committed to keep working with you but I will need to take some medical leave and by the way, I am thinking of leaving the country, but, still I am so committed dude !” in a professional way?

    * My manager is from country B, so I would love to ask him for advices about going there, but I worry that it’s not really the kind of things you can do.
    ** I am still relatively new to the “real” work world and with the adding difficulties that I am from country C living in A for 4 years, so my understanding of social norms is still quite fuzzy (but my company is American and country B is culturally really similar to the US).

    1. Thlayli*

      Without knowing what country you are in I’m not sure my advice will help. First thing is you don’t have to tell your boss about anything that’s not certain. And you probably don’t have to tell your boss you’re pregnant until a specific date. So what I would do in your situation is:
      1 look up when you are legally obliged to tell your boss you are pregnant and wait until either you are showing or that date to tell. Then give the conversation about taking the minimum leave etc. The only reason to tell before then is if you need special treatment (e.g. If you work with chemicals or something)
      2 don’t tell your boss at all about going to country b until you know for sure you are going. There is plenty of time to ask for advice then. Unless you mean asking for advice about how to find jobs there?

    2. Close Bracket*

      Your manager does not need to know this. When your husband gets a job, then it becomes your manager’s business bc you need to give notice.

  210. Truly Anonymous*

    Y’all… I have no idea what to do about my job and manager. I got reorged to a different team with no opportunity to give any kind of input into this. I am functionally in a new job that I do not like. I have had an explicit conversation with manager of new team about unhappiness and not thinking new job is a good fit. New manager seemed to agree and discussion of job ending occurred. However, the company’s in a hiring freeze so new manager asked if I would stay on through hiring freeze. I didn’t exactly agree, but I agreed to not come up with a specific date in that conversation.

    Except that in all subsequent conversations, new manager acts as though this discussion never happened! He wants me to think about long-term professional development goals. He wants me to take on new career development (that is not aligned with my interests but rather new job role interests). He’s asked for feedback on how the reorg is going as though I didn’t just very nervously give difficult feedback.

    I’m at a loss. I don’t know if I need to remind him about previous conversation and point out that literally nothing has changed (which seems quite awkward!).

    Complicating matters is that old team is apparently working behind the scenes to try and get me transferred back. This would be my ideal outcome, so I’ve been holding off on starting a job hunt. But I also don’t know what to do to encourage this outcome.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      Well, this is currently your job, whether or not you like it, so it makes sense for him to ask you to think about goals and development for that role. I know it’s hard right now as your head is elsewhere but some of this is just routine.

      1. Truly Anonymous*

        It seems weird to me because we explicitly discussed me not staying in the job due to the poor fit. The hiring freeze is only expected to last for a quarter or two, so while we didn’t set an end date, it’s not like we agreed to something in the far off future either.

    2. Close Bracket*

      > I don’t know if I need to remind him about previous conversation

      Yes, you do. You and your manager never have the same goals with respect to your career. You always need to be your own advocate.

      However, simultaneously, the transfer back might not happen, so start making long term development goals.

  211. anna green*

    Does anyone have experience with western governors university? Is it a legit school or place to work?

    1. Anatexis*

      I did some contract work for them a while back. They are legit- non-profit, regionally accredited, etc. Let me know what your questions are and I’ll try to help!

    2. Mitzy*

      I just graduated from the Health Informatics program. It’s accredited and non-profit and provides a great learning platform. To prevent from turning into a commercial I’ll keep it short and say that it took me 19 months and knowing what I know now I would definitely do it again.

      It wasn’t perfect and some of the classes really pissed me off (what school doesn’t have their problems?), but I received a high quality education that allowed me to pass the national boards for my program (RHIA) on the first try with a very high score and I started working in a job that requires an RHIA about 6 months before that. They typically have a rule that you must be certified within 90 days of hire, but the manager has had such good experiences with WGU that she made it happen and got me on her team.

      Several of my fellow alumni have gone on to work for WGU; 2 evaluators, a course mentor, and a student mentor. I haven’t heard any complaints from any of them.

  212. Mimmy*

    I’ve posted a couple times about my pay be far below what was stated in my offer letter. Today, I checked online and, I’m happy to report that it appears to have FINALLY be corrected!!

    As for the job itself, I’m just so mixed about it. There are things that I like and things that grate on my nerves. I know every job is like that, but I really need to find an outlet for my skills and interests. Otherwise, I am just going to burn out. Also, I have less than a month before my co-instructor goes on leave (until the end of July), and I’m so scared that I won’t be ready.

  213. Anonymous for this*

    I have an interview lined up for next week for a position that is a bit “meh” but pays well and has good benefits. There isn’t very much to choose from where I live and I have elderly parents to care for.

    In doing basic research for the company I’ve made the disturbing (to me) discovery that the vice-president of the company is the same person who was the president of a different company where I used to work. When he was the president at my former employer, he laid-off a big part of the company (including myself) and moved a lot of the operations to other branches before being fired himself (mostly because he had a nasty personality and attitude).

    In the potential job, I doubt that I would have to deal with him on a regular basis, if I ever had to deal with him at all, in the new job. He spends most of his time at the company’s headquarters several hundred miles away. But still, his being there gives me the creeps and I kind of worry about being let go by him a second time. Am I being paranoid?

    1. KR*

      I think the fact that you were laid off at your last job probably had a lot to do with how the company was doing financially stable the time. If this is a publicly traded company, can you look at their recent financial reports to see if they seem to be doing well and running well? Or recent news about the part of the company you’ll be working in? That may give you some information about if the company is in a precarious financial statement or not. I say go for it!

        1. Anonymous for this*

          I’m going to go through with the interview anyway. While there’s no guarantee that they will even want to hire me, if they make me an offer and if I never have to see old ex-boss, then I would consider it. On the other hand, if nothing else it will be good practice to get another interview under my belt.

  214. Just Moved*

    I hope I’m not too late!

    I just moved to back to the US to a new city I’ve never lived in before after completing a work contract in another country. Is it enough just to list my new city at the top of my resume to show employers that I am local or should I mention the relocation in my cover letter as well? I’ve also never listed my full address on my resume because I feel like it is too much information, but I’m wondering if I should do it now.

    I’m worried that employers aren’t looking at my resume because they see that my most recent jobs were in other cities. Is that a thing?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      You say you’ve just moved back. If you’ve moved back, your current address, which you’ve moved to, should be the one you list on your résumé. I don’t see why you would list your former address, if your new one is in the city you want to get work in.

      And absolutely no problem mentioning in your cover letter that you were abroad finishing up contract work but have just moved back.

      P.S. Putting your full address on a résumé is fairly standard. It isn’t too much information.

  216. Genevieve Shockley*

    On Monday, I am returning to the workforce after retiring in 2011. In my old job, people were accustomed to writing my name as GenE (pronounced Jenny) which is my chosen abbreviation of the name Genevieve. If I didn’t capitalize the last E, it would look more like the male Gene.

    Will continuing this in the new job be to cumbersome to ask of my new supervisor and co-workers?

    1. H.C.*

      Should not be – esp if you email regularly (which allows them to take the hint via your signature)

    2. New Bee*

      I don’t think it’s cumbersome, but if you end up wanting an alternative I grew up with a Genney.

      1. Genevieve Shockley*

        Appreciate the thought. However, I went by GenE for over 10 years before I retired. I had to explain/insist on the capital E on the end, but it was a low-key state agency that didn’t worry about it too much.

        I guess I am just worried about the difference between state agency, and private employer.

    3. Close Bracket*

      I have an unusual spelling, and I constantly have to correct people even though it’s spelled correctly in my email signature. It’s just one of those things you sign up for when you pick an unusual spelling. *shrug*

  217. Anony Mouse*

    Thoughts from people who’ve changed fields/career paths? I’m guessing it’s not uncommon for people to go into totally different fields than the one they majored in during undergrad (or even the field they went to grad school for).

    It’ll be the tenth reunion for my undergrad class next year. While I don’t think people would necessarily judge (or at least they’d be polite enough not to say it to my face), I was really hoping I’d be able to at least say I’m successful and set in my career (even if I’m not set in terms of having an SO or being married with kids). I’m still friends with some people from college, but it’d be nice to visit the campus and see other people who aren’t near me that I haven’t seen since we graduated. I’m probably going to end up skipping it (either depending on what’s going on with school at the time or to dodge the whole “So what are you doing now?” dance).

    It’s embarrassing that in 10 years I haven’t been able to get a foot hold on a career (or even school – I’m the anon that wrote about getting pushed out of grad school after struggling with the practicum portion). I’m currently pursuing a change in field (taking prerequisites). I’m willing to do whatever work is needed (and I want to believe it’ll all be worth it long term – the time I spend working in the field I end up in will exceed the amount of time I’m in school for it, after all), but I still feel ashamed about having to start over again.

    Just…at least tell me I’m not alone? And that I’m not a complete loser?

    1. Jan*

      You’re definitely not alone — it is VERY common for people to work in a different field than what they majored in! The vast majority of my coworkers studied in completely unrelated fields, I always find it fascinating to hear what they majored in.

      From someone who’s been in your shoes: Don’t worry so much what other people think — easier said than done, I know, but do try to be kind to yourself. No experience is ever wasted: even in those 10 “lost years” you’ve learned plenty, and someday those lessons too may come in handy. Keep going. You’re doing great!

    2. Whats In A Name*

      I second what Jan is saying – you are totally not alone in your situation! And I think most people at a reunion who ask what you are doing just want to know if you are happy/how things are going, etc. They really aren’t looking for detail into how successful you are professionally, etc. I mean, there are always a few user-competitive people who are looking to compare themselves to others or want to know what people are up to but when I ask “what have you been up to?” I’m interested in what you have been up to (i.e.”are you working/traveling/raising kids/some combination of the above, etc.) It’s not usually code for “are you successful/working in field. Most people I know are like me. Don’t stress and enjoy the reunion!

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      I think it was my father who told me decades ago (like, 30 years ago) that, even then, people changed jobs an average of 7 times during their working life. It’s reasonable to assume that some of that job-changing likely includes different industries. Please rest assured, many of us have ended up in fields that we didn’t even KNOW existed when we graduated from high school or college. I haven’t been to a high school reunion in almost 20 years, and have never gone to a college one, but from what I can recall, I don’t think you need to dodge the “what are you doing now?” dance. Honestly, I think attendees who will be interested in catching up with you in particular are genuinely interested in hearing about whether you are happy with how things are working out for you NOW, and what your plans for the future are. Try to keep in mind that, even by your early 30s, a statistically significant %age of your peer group may have also experienced some career derailment (possibly by some very serious things, like catastrophic injury or illness, rehab, or incarceration). Saying that you’re in the process of a career change (and sounding excited about it when you say that) will pique the interest of those people sincerely interested in catching up with you, and could lead to some lively conversation.People who liked you then will be delighted to see you now. If there are people YOU want to see, I hope you will not skip this opportunity based solely on your concern of how to present yourself. I hope you will post an update, and let us know what you decided to do.

  218. Whats In A Name*

    After 3 years of being self-employed as a consultant I found a full-time position that combines my background in higher ed with my current consulting work! I just submitted my application and am hoping for at least an interview. Wish me luck :o)

  219. Steve*

    I am not sure if this belongs in this thread or the non-work related one. It’s as much about non-work relationships as it is about work.

    My wife works in a school district, and has a relatively firm start time. Our whole family (her, me, and kids in 2nd grade and preschool) get up to get her to work on time, which gets the other three of us to our locations relatively early. That’s OK because it’s routine. But sometimes her coworkers schedule before-school meetings, and that means all of us have to get up even earlier. And we have to get up even a few minutes extra because everyone is crankier those mornings.

    My question is, can I… strongly encourage her to just refuse to attend such meetings? It throws our whole family off for the rest of the morning.

    1. Teacher also married to a Steve*

      I think this question is more work-related, given my response. If she works in a district with a union, her contract should have the hours spelled out, and if before-school meetings aren’t part of the contract, she can let the team know she’s unavailable to meet before school. However, maintaining good relationships with the team, especially if she’s new to the district/school and the culture is such that early morning meetings are a thing, means she’ll have to finesse her response a bit.

  221. ST*

    So I went for an eagerly-anticipated job interview this morning. The job hit me in quite a few of my strong suits. Met the interviewer, took an interesting tour of the facility, sat down for about 20 minutes of discussion, and generally felt pretty good about the fit.

    Interviewer question: “Would it be a deal-killer for you that the job is only part-time?”
    Me: . . .

Comments are closed.