open thread – May 5-6, 2017

by Alison Green on May 5, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. Simplytea*

    Got a weird interview question this past week for a business position (that turned out to be much different than the job description). “What do you want to tell us that is NOT on your resume?”

    Seeing as this was their first question, and they didn’t even ask me to introduce myself, it threw me for a loop. My immediate thought was “Isn’t that what an interview is about??” My answer was to talk about how great I am at events management, which is noticeably absent from my resume. I actually didn’t know it was a key part of the position until they described it, and it’s not my favorite thing (which is why it was out of my resume).

    Reflecting, I think they were looking for personality traits because the position they described ended up being more recruiter-esque than listed. Depending on the position in the future, I may answer with a comment on how I’m outgoing and a team player, who’s extremely flexible in complex situations. Of course, backed up by examples.

    So my question to all you out there:
    1. What weird questions have you gotten in an interview?
    2. Why do you think it was asked?
    3. If you got the question again, how would you answer?

    Sorry if this has been done previously :)

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I think it would be a legitimate question if it weren’t the first question they asked you. I’ve had that question maybe five minutes into an interview, and it usually can work its way in there naturally by that point.

      Honestly, I know I’ve been asked weird questions in interviews before, but I think I’ve blocked them from my memory…

    2. Blue Anne*

      I got a weird memory game where me and the sales director took turns adding a word on to the end of a long sentence we were making together. Like..

      “This…”
      “This is…”
      “This is a…”
      “This is a very….”
      “This is a very important…”
      “This is a very important gimmick…”
      “This is a very important gimmick I…”
      “This is a very important gimmick I use…”
      “This is a very important gimmick I use because….”
      “This is a very important gimmick I use because I….”
      “This is a very important gimmick I use because I am…”
      “This is a very important gimmick I use because I am terrible…”
      “This is a very important gimmick I use because I am terrible at…”
      “This is a very important gimmick I use because I am terrible at interviewing…”

      Apparently he had most of my colleagues draw trees during their interviews. It was a red flag and I should have listened to my gut.

      2. Snork Maiden*

        Oh, no. Nope to both of those. It was painful to read your comment, I can only imagine how awkward it was for you in person.

        1. Blue Anne*

          It was very awkward and a little demeaning. The president of the company (also this guy’s wife) had already taken me through a bunch of math problems in the form of billing/invoice questions, which was fun and way, way more applicable.

      3. jackson's whole what*

        We used to play something like that at girl scouts, so I don’t know if I’d be able to stop my reflexes from adding weird things like “zombies” and seeing where the chain went.

        1. MommaTRex*

          If you added in “zombies”, I would determine that you would be an excellent fit and I’d want to hire you on the spot.

      4. Casuan*

        The tree looks pretty…
        That said, there are no words.

        Oh!!
        Actually there are… A picture is worth a thousand words!
        …none of which come to mind

    3. Ann O. Nymous*

      One time someone asked me how I would describe a tennis ball to an alien.

      I got the job but did not last long there.

      1. De Minimis*

        That might be okay if it was for marketing. I applied at a place for a marketing position once, and they had me write an ad for a sports related product to be marketed to aliens. It must be a common exercise.

          1. motherofdragons*

            Was it for training? I had to create and deliver a training plan on how to make a PB&J sandwich at my last training job.

          1. shep*

            ^All of this. :)

            “Have we already made first contact? If so, is the alien my friend or a business acquaintance?”

      3. Blue Anne*

        I can kind of understand that one, depending on the type of job. For technical support jobs, for example, I’ve heard of asking you to explain how to make a PB&J sandwich to an alien.

        My boyfriend is interviewing for patent jobs right now and got asked to pick something from his kitchen and explain exactly how it works and why it’s designed that way. Took him a couple weeks to stop staring at objects and describing their use.

        1. Discordia Angel Jones*

          My dad works in the patent field and his favourite interview question to ask was “Please describe a post-it note”.

          At least it’s relevant to what you’d be doing as a patent attorney, I guess.

            1. Discordia Angel Jones*

              I don’t even think my dad knows what that is (I don’t either, actually) lol

        3. Stranger than fiction*

          My bf is a pm and once got asked how he would go about designing a remote control…well if they had read his resume they’d have known one of the product lines he’d managed actually included remote controls!

        4. Elizabeth H.*

          I love the PB&J sandwich instructions thing. When I was in grade school we went on a field trip to the science museum where they had a presentation/demo of that concept (like how it related to computer programming, robots or something) They had a guy with the bread and jars of peanut butter and jelly and a knife and had a volunteer kid give directions then followed them literally (like when the kid said “take the bread,” picking up the entire bag of bread, spreading the peanut butter onto the top of the loaf of bread, stuff like that). It was so funny and such a great demo, it really drove the message home to me.

    4. Cookie*

      Rate your interest in this job from 1-10.
      I’m sure they wanted to determine whether I was serious about this job, but I applied, took a day off work to interview and drove 240 miles round trip to meet with you – that’s my way of showing you I’m very interested.
      If I’m ever asked this question again, I’m walking out because it shows me these people have no sense of judgment.

      1. Mazzy*

        I think it was just a sign that they had had a lot of duds before and felt they needed to screen out those type of candidates better. If you’re a competent interviewee it can be painful to answer dumb questions but from my end you’d be surprised how many people come in not knowing anything or being able to answer simple questions

        1. Lily Rowan*

          Like the person who added “Are you interested in filing? Yes/No” to her online application for a file clerk job. A lot of people checked No! (An AAM classic, IMO.)

          1. The Rat-Catcher*

            A fellow student worker of mine quit her job at our university’s textbook rental service (think library) because she “didn’t like shelving books.”

            1. Stranger than fiction*

              Clearly she thought she’d only be working with digital books.

        2. Kimberlee, Esq.*

          Yes! While it’s not necessarily an excuse for bad questions, I have learned that often the reason that an interviewer asks certain questions is very specific; they had a bad experience with someone or multiple someones, and ask this question now in an attempt to stave off similar experiences.

        3. Cookie*

          The problem is, my interest wasn’t a 10. Only a “dream job” gets a 10 from me. It’s pretty good, I would’ve given it a 7, but I doubt they wanted to hear that. I’m more comfortable saying I’m very interested as opposed to giving a number because anything other than 10 might’ve screened me out (and probably did because I just said I was very interested and don’t think about these things numerically).

      2. Blue Anne*

        Just after I was born (so early 1989) my mom, a highly intelligent lady who had a JD and a PhD, got an interview for a tenure position she really wanted. Couple of hours away by train.

        So mom brought her mother in from Ohio, got her mom and her newborn onto the train, parked us in a hotel room for the duration and returned to nurse whenever she could. Interviews, meetings etc went about a day and a half, I think.

        At the end of it she was told “We don’t think you’d be committed enough to this position, because you have a new baby.”

        Screw that, seriously.

        1. Traveler*

          I got the “We don’t think you’d be committed enough…” once because I didn’t have a baby. They asked if I had children, and when I said no (and likely made a face bc my mind was racing with the inappropriateness of that question) They said oh. We don’t know if you’ll be right for this position because most of the people that tend to succeed here have children keeping them rooted.

          It was a call center position for an insurance company. Um, what?

          1. Blue Anne*

            “We prefer candidates whose personal responsibilities keep them from quitting for as long as possible no matter how soul-destroying the job is.”

          2. MommaTRex*

            Or was it: “People stay in this job if they have children, because they have no free time to look for a new job once they discover how bad this one is.”

          3. Traveler*

            It was a call center position for an insurance company. I took it when it was offered because it was in the middle of the recession. And yes, it was definitely a case of we want candidates who can’t leave because this job will destroy your soul piece by piece everyday. I left as soon as I could, likely reinforcing their beliefs.

            The best part was several months later their recruiters had to come to me for a training. I was so very internally smug.

            1. The Rat-Catcher*

              So great when that karma you keep hearing about and trusting will come around some day, does so with you watching!

          4. JanetM*

            I can’t remember if I’ve mentioned this here before, but in the 1970s, when my mother was the office manager at a law firm, she said she always preferred to hire single mothers, because they couldn’t afford to quit.

          5. Starbuck*

            “They asked if I had children,”

            It’s illegal to ask about family status during a job interview, correct? My understanding is that kinds, marriage, pregnancy, etc. are totally taboo, because of situations like what happened to you!

            1. Cookie*

              They can’t use your family status against you, but they can ask. Smart interviewers wouldn’t though.

        2. Emma*

          Wow. Sadly, this attitude has not died out even in liberal arts colleges, where I have been on the receiving end (“surprising” them with the news I was x months pregnant after the offer) and part of a search committee where a person brought up childcare as an excuse not to hire someone precisely because they wouldn’t be committed (to a visiting position). I still have PTSD from that job

          1. Overeducated*

            To a…visiting position? SHE wouldn’t be committed? AAAAAAARGH!

            Most of the time I miss academia but occasionally I get a good reminder why my world is so much saner now.

      3. Cube Ninja*

        “Would you like my answer based on my feelings before or after you asked that question?”

        This is an inexcusably lazy way to ask a perfectly legitimate question. If I knew the candidate had traveled to interview, though? Totally different and a bit tone deaf to question if the job is high on their list of pursuits. I get wanting to know if the candidate is treating it as ‘best’ option versus ‘this would be ok’, but there are far better ways to determine where they stand.

    5. LizB*

      Yeah, that seems like a better question for later in the interview. We use “Is there anything you’d like to share with us that you haven’t had a chance to yet?” as one of our last questions, which seems kind of similar.

      In an internal interview, I was asked “If you were an ice cream flavor, what flavor would you be?” – mostly as a joke from a hiring manager I knew very well. I think I said “Aw, I’m terrible at these kinds of questions” and then made up some bs on the spot, which is probably what I’d do if I got it again. I honestly hate those kinds of questions. I don’t know what kind of vegetable or shoe or car I am! I’m a human!

      1. College Career Counselor*

        My spouse was asked, “if you were part of a pizza, which part would you be?” Spouse said “the crust, because I view my role as providing the support for the rest of the team to present their best selves.” Did not get the job, but that was due to internal politics of the organization rather than the quality of the answer, which I thought was about as good as could be expected given the ridiculous nature of the question.

      2. Snazzy Hat*

        I have yet to be asked what kind of tree I would be, which is unfortunate. My surname includes a variety of tree, e.g., “Cedarson” or “Larchman” or “Cypress-Hill”, so I already have a canned response that goes, “well, my last name means ____, so I’d have to say a _____”.

        1. HannahS*

          Hah! I knew someone with the last name “Beer” who used that as an answer to “What drink would you be?”

          1. This Daydreamer*

            “It depends on the situation. When I get started on a new project, I like having the sharpness of an IPA. For a brainstorming session I find it’s better to be an fast-flowing light lager. For those late night grinds, stout all the way, man.”

      3. motherofdragons*

        The question is your first paragraph is one I hear a lot at the end of interviews (and think is perfectly legit), and it reminds me of my interview for my current job.

        I was 99% sure I was going to be offered the position, because I’d worked with the managers and team in my previous role a lot, and we had a great relationship. They had also been really excited when I asked them about the opening, and were basically like “PLEASE APPLY!!” The interview was pretty casual, which also added to my confidence, and we wound up just sort of chatting toward the end. To wrap things up they asked if there was anything else I wanted to add, and I told them a joke! This would have never flown in another setting, I know, but it was fun to get to be a little cheeky. Still really happy in my job over a year later!

      4. Stranger than fiction*

        That’s an awesome question at the end of an interview because it gives you a chance to cover something awesome about yourself that didn’t come up.

        1. LizB*

          That’s the goal! We’re a well-regarded nonprofit, so a lot of people use the opportunity to talk about a personal connection to our mission or how much they’d love to work for this particular organization; others go back to some point of their experience that they really want us to pay attention to. On the other hand, folks who just say “No, I’m good” are… less impressive. Really, you can’t think of one thing you want to tell us or emphasize? I had one like that this morning and it just confirmed my lack of enthusiasm for that candidate (who didn’t do well on several other questions).

    6. PizzaDog*

      I’ve gotten that exact question. I was honest and admitted that I left it off because I was there for a short period of time and that I wasn’t looking to explore that line of work again. I think I’d answer the same way if ever I were asked again.

    7. Amber Rose*

      “Have you ever lied?”

      I have no idea why this was asked, because there’s no answer. Either I say no, and I am either most certainly lying or will assumed to be so, or I say yes and make myself look like a liar even if I’m thinking about all those times I told mom that no, I did not eat those cookies. Either way, you are getting no useful information from me except maybe some babbling qualifiers about “but I’d never lie AT WORK” which, I mean, come on.

      If I was asked again? “Why do you want to know?” Because I legit wanna know what the point was.

      1. Cookie*

        I’d think that you could say something to the effect of “I’ve lied to spare someone’s feelings, like complimenting a hairstyle that didn’t suit them, but I’ve never lied about my performance.” But I agree, it’s a dumb question and people put you in an impossible situation.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          If I am having a bad morning and I tell someone “good morning”, I feel like I am lying… or maybe it is wishful thinking?

      2. MassMatt*

        This is a very common question in the insurance/finance industry where ethical standards as well as temptations are high. I have seen it on several personality questionnaires that also assess how outgoing/sales oriented you are. The question is generally “Have you ever lied”, or in assessments that ask you to strongly agree, agree, disagree, strongly disagree it’s a statement such as “I have never lied”.

        It does seem like a trick question but saying you’ve never lied is the alarm bell, almost no one is that honest, and the fact that you’ve fibbed to spare someone’s feelings or lied as a child or something is likely to come up elsewhere in the questionnaire.

      3. Camellia*

        I am a bad bad person because my first thought was if the person asking that question was male I would say, “Yes, dear, it IS seven inches!”

    8. DecorativeCacti*

      I can’t think of a weird question, but I did have an interviewer at one point say something along the lines of, “I think one of my employees will be leaving soon and it makes me sad,” before spacing out for a minute. (It was true; the employee in question had a serious long distance relationship and about six months after I started moved to Canada.)

    9. Casuan*

      Simplytea, I’d take the query as an opportunity to mention your skills from things that aren’t on your resume &or directly related you the job description.
      eg: You can do some accounting because you’re treasurer of a club, you’re empathetic which is a skill you use where you volunteer, you can understand some languages even tho you can speak them yourself, places where you’ve volunteered & what you learned from those…
      Keep the replies short; if the interviewer wants details then she’ll ask.

      Actually I like this question, however not at the beginning of an interview! It gives one the opportunity to list skills left off of the resume.
      The timing was odd.
      Perhaps it was to determine how you respond to odd behaviours [aka thinking on your feet]? And of how well you recovered?
      If true, that’s a bit gimmicky although the rest of the interview would give clues as to the company culture, which is valuable infos for you.

      If the question was asked to me, my first thought would be “It drives me bonkers when people launch into personal questions without at least a quick introduction.”
      Probably I shouldn’t actually say that…

      1. Simplytea*

        Hahaha! Yes I think what threw me off was that I didn’t have an intro and it was the first question asked. They had also just launched into a description of the job which was not at ALL what was listed online. A shame, really.

        It was a new position, and I think all the questions they asked were kind of weird because they didn’t know exactly what they were looking for.

    10. Perpetua*

      I can see how that phrasing would throw you off the loop a bit, but I suspect that it was their way of asking you to introduce yourself, and I’d interpret it to mean “tell us something about yourself, without repeating the things we’ve already read about in your resume”.

      A weird question I got? It wasn’t an explicit question, more of a statement that “hopefully I knew how to behave in fancy restaurants and wouldn’t lick the knife like some poor peasant girl”. It was for a “very high level” headhunting position that I didn’t get nor want after that interview. :D

    11. Kerry*

      I was a teenager, interviewing at an aquarium. First, they asked, “If you could have dinner with anyone in the world, who would it be and why?” I stuttered for 5 minutes before giving some half-hearted response, maybe Benjamin Franklin or something. Then they asked what animal I would be. Immediately, without skipping a beat, I said, “a giraffe, so I could see everything going on around me”.

      I got the job, turned it down. It was too weird, and they had me take a weird math test that was basic addition and subtraction. Funnily enough, a friend of mine interviewed as well and answered “dolphin” to the animal question. She did not get the job.

    12. AliceBD*

      I got “describe an orange without using the word orange” and I thought it was fun! I had fun answering it and they were impressed with my answer (they specifically called out using complete sentences; apparently other candidates just said random words?) I’m in marketing and the position would involve a lot of communication and writing things for the public that could be complicated and intimidating so I thought it was fine to ask. It was also almost the last question in a 2 hour interview.

    13. WaitingforMacaroni*

      “If possible describe yourself in one word.”

      I said “Open.”

      I would answer the same way but if you are not prepared, you find yourself scrambling!

      1. Nacho*

        I got a variation of “describe yourself with 3 words” (they couched it as introducing me to the team). I said “Nacho is awesome”, which had them cracking up since apparently they weren’t asking for a complete sentence like that.

        I got the promotion.

        2. Nervous Accountant*

          A client actually asked me this on the phone, and I was so thrown off by it–it didn’t occur to me to even refuse to answer that but meh. (I was already upset because he’d demanded to speak to me when I was on my lunch break and even said “tell NA her break is fucking over”; had he not pulled that, I would have been nicer about it but oh well)

          1. CM*

            Wait, what? Your client pulled you off your lunch break because they wanted to ask you to describe yourself in three words? “When is my project going to be done, why haven’t you finished it yet, and also describe yourself in three words!”

            1. Nervous Accountant*

              It was a new client and our first meeting was the next week; he had a super urgent emergency question (which really wasn’t) that he wanted to ask prior to our meeting and had been given my contact info by another dept (which is normal SOP here) but he was super anxious I guess. To be fair, he was pleasant on the phone and acknowledged he was out of line by pulling me away from my break. Thankfully, 99% of clients are NOT like this, so its now just a “funny story”

      2. Labguy*

        Good answers to throw someone for a loop.

        “Eldritch”

        “Post-Kantian”

        “Nougaty”

        “Peak”

        I’m going to have fun with this all day

    14. Iza*

      A friend recently got one that went like this: “What is your superpower?”

      I guess it is the new way of asking your greatest strength? She was definitely a little thrown by that question. After all, I always think of superpowers in terms of what I want to have, i.e. teleportation. :)

      2. WaitingforMacaroni*

        I thought of Breastfeeding as there was a meme about that at some point: I can make food; what’s your superpower, or similar.

        But i don’t think that would be appropriate of an answer for most work environments…!

      3. the gold digger*

        My husband’s superpower is that he has to hear only one song of a vintage American Top 40 with Casey Kasem to know what year the episode is from.

        Parents, that’s what you get when you talk about how awful pop music is and play nothing but classical music in your house: Your child will become obsessed with pop music.

        1. Collarbone High*

          One of the radio stations in my city plays the old Casey Kasem countdowns on Sunday mornings and it always kind of weirds me out to hear his voice.

          I would love to read an article tracking down some of the people whose long distance dedications were played on the air and finding out how they turned out.

          1. Jane Gloriana Villanueva*

            oh my gosh, that is a great idea about the LDD… this reminds me of a mixtape I made in college where I just kept a blank in the recorder and caught everything I wanted as I could. I had taped Kasem reading one in memory of a beloved teacher who had died in a car crash… and then very unintentionally, it turned out that the next song I recorded was Sheryl Crow’s “Every Day is a Winding Road.” Classy JGV!

          2. the gold digger*

            We listen every Sunday, too!

            I wonder about the long-distance dedications, too. There was one a few weeks ago from a 15 year old girl to the 35 year old man who had taught her “how to love.” I am guessing they would not run something like that today.

          3. Woman of a Certain Age*

            I ran into a radio station where for some reason they were replaying old “America’s Top 40” programs with Casey Kasem not too awful long ago. They were playing an episode from around 1971 or 72 or so from when I was a child and I remembered a whole lot of the songs from people like Carole King and the Carpenters. I’d like to find that radio station again and see if they will be playing any more old reruns like that again.

            It was like traveling back in time.

        2. Bryce*

          My superpower is not needing a radio station/mp3 player. I have a running soundtrack in my head at all times (not just one song on repeat) and can keep pretty much perfect timing while it plays.

      4. Jane Gloriana Villanueva*

        Hmmm… I recently held multiple interviews, and that’s my last question! I wonder if s/he was referring to me, haha.

        I think the way I wrap up the other questions, and their questions, shows that I am asking this for fun. We’re a small team, and it’s been very difficult to deal with someone with little humor or personality, so the answer to this says a lot. I don’t like the “strengths and weaknesses” stuff, so I try to find other ways to draw those qualities out. It would never be my opening question, and I try not to ask questions that I would find appalling or frustrating, or a darn bit of trickery.

      5. Jadelyn*

        Well, I have a running joke with my lovers that my superpower is “inspirational nudity”, but I doubt an interviewer needs or wants to hear that, lol.

        (There actually is a story behind it, I swear! It’s not just ego! Had to do with an interesting experience in college with public nudity.)

    15. Michele*

      One time they asked about my entire work history, going back to babysitting in junior high (and this was for a position that required a Ph.D. and experience). I thought it was bizarre at the time, but then I realized they were trying to get a feel for my work ethic.

      1. the gold digger*

        I did think it was weird that of the five high school seniors I interviewed as part of their application to the college I attended, not one of them has ever had a job. Where do they get their money? I started babysitting when I was 11.

        1. Amy the Rev*

          A girl in my grad program has never had a summer job…. I was working full time every summer since I was 16, and had the same question- where did she get her money???

          1. Garland not Andews*

            Some of us never had the option. When you live miles out of town, don’t have a vehicle, and there is tons of farm work (gardening, watering, canning) to be done, working in town was never an option.

            1. the gold digger*

              I consider farm work to be work for sure. (There is a reason neither my mom nor her six siblings had any interest in taking over the family farm.) Unfortunately, it does not always come with pay.

          2. Rookie Manager*

            A school friend of mine is now a Paediatric Consultant. She’s done well for herself but it always baffled me that through school and uni she never once worked. Her first pay cheque was for being a doctor.

            Bank of Mum and Dad gave her all her money, and she always had more than I did from working. They wanted her to focus on her studies. Not that I’m bitter about not being born to rich parents…

        2. HannahS*

          I wasn’t allowed to work in high school, except for very part-time for my dad. My parents gave me money. They could afford to, and preferred that I spend my time on school plus extracurriculars (of which I think I had nine) instead of a job. In the summer, the rule was “you must do SOMETHING. Work or school.” I took summer school to get ahead on credits. Most people I knew didn’t have jobs during high school. It was a mostly middle-class, mostly immigrant area where the expectation was that you spent every minute on being a student.

        3. Chaordic One*

          When I was growing up there really weren’t that many jobs out there for high school kids. I would have loved to have been a waitress or to have worked in a grocery store or as a cashier or something like that, and I applied for many things and never even got calls back. It did kind of seem like there was a lot of nepotism and that small businesses only hired their own kids, which is kind of understandable.

          I did end up doing lawn work (which I hated), and the occasional odd job babysitting or doing sewing, but it was never anything that provided a steady income. I could never have bought myself a used car, for example.

          I suspect that things are only worse now.

        4. Anxa*

          Perhaps the economy?

          My senior year of college I hadn’t reapplied to one of my summer jobs, naively thinking I’d be interviewing for new positions and there were also transit issues.

          By the next summer, still unemployed, post-crash, I wasn’t accepted back. There was a 20+ person waitlist. I never had to work hard at finding a summer job in high school and college, but once I had some gaps in my resume, the same types of jobs I had just sort of walked into were seemingly impossible to get. Plus, more and more retail/service work is done through larger companies and automated job applications are becoming more normal. Also, it’s hard to get a job without experience. I think college it’s easier to start building more meaningful unpaid experience in college.

        5. Ask Me About My Knitwear*

          “Where do they get their money?”

          Well, that’s easy – speaking for myself, I simply didn’t have any.

    16. Lizzle*

      Well my boss asked very probey questions about why I didn’t go to college and other topics. Even after I felt I had answered it, that “I was on my own at a young age and had to start working earlier than most”.

      She persisted – “so did you just feel it wasn’t important to go to school?” and I was really thrown… I didn’t know what else to say… so I said “well I lost my mother before I turned 14 and was pretty much on my own at that point so I didn’t feel it was an option”

      She continued on with other questions, “why was I so interested in non-profit work?” and again my first answer had to be probed… This was my second interview with her, it felt like therapy, I felt very exposed and uncomfortable. I don’t know if she sensed my uneasiness at the end or realized she went a little too far, she said something about thanking me for answering difficult questions. I can answer whatever you like but perhaps keeping questions a bit more professional would make sense. Now I know she is a bit of a college snob so…

      I would have a more polished answer should it happen again, I wouldn’t have shared so much, I was caught off guard. I’m a pretty private person as it is. Honestly if it did happen like that I would probably just run! Usually if my not having a degree is an issue I’m not brought in at all, certainly not for multiple interviews for weeks on end like I was here.

      I took the job and should have paid attention to the red flags but was afraid NOT to take it. And now, almost 2 years later, I can’t wait to leave.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        What a stupid, horrible snob this woman must be. I’m so sorry – that just reeks of privilege. Glad you’re getting out of there.

    17. Trillian*

      What kind of vegetable are you?

      First question, asked in a decidedly abashed way.

    18. Guy Incognito*

      1. Do you believe in aliens
      2. I’ve no idea
      3. I’d use the same answer which was “I haven’t seen enough evidence to convince me they exist, but I’m not sure they don’t”

      1. Tell me a joke
      2. I think because I said liked stand up comedy
      3. I made a bird box last weekend, next week I make a chicken do karate.
      (The only jokes I could remember were NSFW so I just said I couldn’t think of anything appropriate to tell in an interview)

      1. Kimberlee, Esq.*

        Ugh, yes, I once got the “tell me a joke” and all I could think about were dead baby jokes, a genre I was very into in high school and are wholly, 100% inappropriate virtually anywhere, especially in a job interview.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          This one: A horse walks into a bar and the bartender says, “Why the long face?”

          If they don’t laugh or at least groan, there is no hope for them. ;)

          1. Snazzy Hat*

            I had a friend in high school who told me that joke, and I didn’t get it at first. He explained, “because he has a long face”, gesturing to his own face being elongated. I realized it was a groaner.

            Then *every* time I saw him in the halls between classes, he would mouth “because he has a long face” and do that motion again. We were pretty good friends, so I wasn’t genuinely upset, but my reactions would range from rolling my eyes at him to flipping him off.

            Honestly, though, I love quick jokes like that.
            “Two guys walk into a bar. The next guy walks under it.”
            “Two drums and a cymbal fall down a flight of stairs. Ba-dum PSH!”
            “What do you get when you cross a rhetorical question with a joke?”

          2. ancolie*

            My standard groaner is:
            What did the zero say to the eight?
            “Hey, nice belt!”

    19. MarianCSRA*

      I once applied for a job that posted a very generic job description (librarian), then at the interview you got a specific job description (children’s librarian) to read over before they started asking questions. Then, at the end of the interview, the last question was: Now that you’ve read the job description, do you still want this job? Talk about being thrown for a loop. I just went through the whole interview. Even if I don’t want the job, I’m not going to say that now.

      I have no idea what the reasoning was for asking that. :/

      1. Cookie*

        That’s unfair to spring the change on you at the interview. For whatever it’s worth, I’ve been in similar situations and have said, “Thanks for your time” and moved on.

        1. MarianCSRA*

          I agree. Especially since you usually know if you want to be a children’s librarian or not. It seems a waste of time for everyone involved.

      2. LizB*

        Yikes. My HR requires me to use a job description that is really vague and doesn’t give a good idea of what the position I’m hiring for actually does, so I always give a much more detailed description and then ask if the applicant still wants to proceed… as the very first question in a phone screen. And if someone says “no, that’s not what I want to do,” I thank them for their interest and we end the call. It’s just a waste of everyone’s time to wait until the very end of an in-person interview.

    20. MWKate*

      1. Do you think you are a person who sees the forest or the trees?
      2. What is a favorite saying or quote? (I completely flubbed this one, it was really unexpected and my mind completely blanked.)

      1. Xarcady*

        I got the favorite saying once in an interview and responded, “Do or do not; there is no try.”

        The interviewers were impressed. They had no idea that I couldn’t think of *anything* and the only reason the Star Wars quote floated to the top was that I had been chatting with my nephew the night before and he said it during our conversation.

        However, none of the 5 people interviewing me had a clue where the saying was from.

        1. MWKate*

          I wish I could have come up with something like that. I stared at them blankly for about 30 seconds, and the only thing that kept coming to mind, it was like an earworm, was this sign my aunt has hanging in her house. “An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto a blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.”

          I wanted to just stand up and silently leave. I think I tried to be like, it’s a funny sign I liked growing up and it reminds me of family holidays etc etc.

      2. tink*

        I’ve gotten the forest and trees question pretty frequently. As far as I can tell the question is really “Do you focus on the big picture or the details?”

        1. Amy the Rev*

          my answer would be “the trees are what attract my attention, but then i like to step back and see the forest”

      3. Trillian*

        I don’t think “No battle plan survives contact with the enemy,” would fly, somehow.

      4. gladfe*

        Ooh, I’d hate that forest-trees question. I hate all those sorts of false-binary questions in interviews. A lot of human traits have some sort of normal distribution, so a lot of people are honestly in the middle, but you run into interviewers who are just sure everybody’s an X person or a Y person. If you try to say you’re in the middle, they think you’re equivocating. I’m not particularly introverted or extroverted; I can see the forest and the trees just fine, but neither perfectly; and I am neither rigid nor free-spirited on all subjects. All of those things are perfectly normal, but good luck saying any of them to an interviewer with a pet theory about what types of people there are!

        1. HannahS*

          I feel like they’re so often code for, “There are two types of people: me, and everyone who isn’t exactly like me.”

      5. Any Moose*

        “I love it when a plan comes together!” But I also thought of Yoda’s as well.

      6. Hazel Asperg*

        I guess standing up and shouting “Q’aplaH!” wouldn’t go over too well…

      7. Stellar*

        “By Grabthar’s Hammer, by the suns of Warvan, you shall be avenged?”

        I’m terrible with these kinds of put-on-the-spot questions.

    21. Cookie*

      In a legal interview many years ago, I was asked to describe 10 uses for a stapler (other than the obvious). I thought it was an exercise in creative thinking, but when I shared this question with my career development office they told me the firm was trying to screen out people who may crack under pressure and use a stapler as a weapon – unfortunately, that was one of my 10 responses. So just watch out, you never know what they’re getting at with these questions.

      1. tw*

        oh man, I was once asked for 10 uses for a pencil besides writing. Maybe they were looking for stabbing?
        My mind blanked and my first answer was “erasing”

      2. Lizzle*

        Interesting… I would have totally said weapon, but not as the first response. I always have to restrain myself at the airport when they ask ‘are you carrying any weapons with you?’ and I want to say ‘well almost anything can be used as a weapon’…

        You watch enough Walking Dead, Game of Thrones and other such entertainment and this is what you know.

      3. paul*

        It’s a hefty-ish blunt object; weapon is going to be on that list for most people.

        Weapon, doorstop, paperweight…maybe a hammer in a pinch?

        1. Jaydee*

          Hammer, definitely. I have used my stapler and tape dispenser as makeshift hammers many times.

        2. Cookie*

          I definitely remember saying doorstop and paperweight, also backscratcher for some reason. These interviewers make an already stressful experience more challenging.

      4. Trillian*

        So “Break a window to escape” would probably not work either.

        “Staple two sheets of paper together.”
        “Staple three sheets of paper together.”
        “Staple four sheets of paper …”

        If anyone ever invents a telepathy pill, I am so socially dead.

        1. Bryce*

          Your answer reminds me of a test I took as a kid where I had to make pictures using a bunch of vertical lines on a page. I got bored and turned them all into the legs of a 3-page long centipede.

      5. LizB*

        1. doorstop
        2. paperweight
        3. self-defense in case of an active shooter situation (throw it)
        4. toothpick (using one staple)
        5. hold down a helium balloon
        6. pool toy you can dive for?
        7. very light free weight
        8. could maybe be used as a door hinge if you had a lot of other power tools?
        9. percussion instrument if you can staple rhythmically
        10. tongs, kind of?

      6. Shark Whisperer*

        I was asked that in an interview and one of my answers was definitely using as a weapon and I got the job (although I may have specifically said under what circumstances I would use it as a weapon i.e. a serial killer is attempting to abduct me). But I am not in the legal field, and the position is definitely one that requires creativity and thinking outside the box. Also the question was asked in the second interview which was with direct coworkers as well as the hiring manager, so part of it was also to judge how I would fit in with the rest of the team. (We have a small team that works together in a very small space and often deals with stressful situations, so fit is very very important). We’ve hired a new team member since I was hired and we asked the stapler question in those interviews as well. I honestly don’t remember what the woman who we hired said. It wasn’t a question that would make or break a candidate, it was one of many creative/how-do-you-fit-with-the-team questions, but silly and creative answers definitely got you bonus points.

      7. MommaTRex*

        Gee. At my work (an office job) we just went through active shooter training, and we were encouraged to think about how we could use readily available items as weapons.

      8. Elizabeth West*

        This cracks me up. At OldExjob, we had office safety training, and I asked for specific training on handling a situation where someone threatening came in (because front desk). I have this habit when queuing in the post office or wherever for any length of time–I get bored and start imagining what I would do if the apocalypse suddenly happened or somebody went bonkers. And I was already thinking about that from a safety standpoint anyway, so I had lots of alternate uses for the stuff on my desk. The safety trainer told my boss, “I’d be a lot more worried about the perpetrator than about her!”

        1. paul*

          having been stabbed with unconventional items, they can hurt like a bastard. Hard to get to something really vital in the torso though (neck might work?).

    22. Emi.*

      Why is there fuzz on a tennis ball?
      It turns out this is a common question, and they don’t actually care whether you’re right as long as you say something sensible. I think the correct answer is that it increases friction against the racket so you can put more spin on it (although it’s hard to sort out the actual tennis ball design information from the 80,000,000 articles about how to answer the tennis ball interview question), so I guess I’d say that.

      Without actually doing it, explain how to tie your shoes.
      Name ten things to do with a pencil besides writing.
      I guess they wanted to see creative problem solving? It was an applied math job. I’d give the same answers, probably.

      If you were an animal, what animal would you be?
      Classic. I am a sea monster. If I had another shot, I would explain that I want to explore the ocean floor because it’s hard, and being hard to acquire makes knowledge more enticing.

    23. dappertea*

      One of our interviewers will throw in a really oddball question (with a warning that it’s an oddball question to the candidate, and just for fun) if a candidate seems really tense or is just being really stiff. While the candidate thinks of their answer, both interviewers usually share what their answer would be and joke a little. It’s to help lighten the mood and make things a little less intense. Where that works with most candidates, there are some I feel where it definitely makes things worse and more uncomfortable for them.

    24. Bryan*

      Not a question per se, but I interviewed at a company about five years ago and the interviewer told me “I’m not going to speak for the next three minutes. Entertain me.” If this were a sales or PR related job, I could see how that would make sense but this was for a finance position…I’m not really sure that people would seek out accountants for entertainment on a regular or any sort of basis. The interviewer was passive aggressive for most of the interview and gave off a vibe that he’d be a royal PITA to work for. I knew I wasn’t going to work for this company so I thanked the guy for his time and ended the interview; he turned red and glared at me as I left the room.

      If asked again and it was a company that I really wanted to work for, maybe I’d launch into an acapella version of the Bohemian Rhapsody.

      1. Iris Carpenter*

        There is an apocryphal story that a Cambridge don said that to a student he was interviewing for admission to the university. The would-be student set light to the don’s newspaper!

        1. Jen Erik*

          It may not be apocryphal. My daughter’s teacher told her that her son did that at his Cambridge interview, though, as I remember it, the prompt had been “Impress me.” It was only part of the process, and there was a longer story about why he did it. ( It was the end of a long day, he was about to miss his flight home, the professor left him kicking his heels outside the door, then called him in and continued to read the paper, ignoring him…) He was offered a place.
          He’s in finance too, and when I shared the story with a friend who worked in HR, she explained – and I’m afraid I’ve forgotten the explanation – what personal quality they were screening for there, and why it was important in that field.
          (Of course, while the Cambridge educated son exists, it’s possible the mum appropriated the story, but she seemed a straightforward person.)

          1. Government Mule*

            Sounds like the ADM Rickover interview story.
            Rickover to candidate: Piss me off.
            Candidate sweeps everything off of Rickover’s desk.

      2. Snazzy Hat*

        For some reason that reminds me of my International Baccalaureate Physics exam. The class was grossly unprepared for an entire section of the exam, and one of my friends wrote for several of her answers, “I don’t know, but here’s a joke” and then proceeded with the joke. When she told me this, I regretted not writing lines of dialogue from The Simpsons.

    25. Nanc*

      Hand to heaven: What’s your astrological sign? We have to make certain you’ll be compatible with the rest of the department.

      Sigh. I was young (this was 30 or so years ago) so I answered truthfully, “Libra, we’re well balanced! In Chinese astrology I was born the year of the bull!” I didn’t make it to the final round but heard from someone who used to work there that finalists had to provide exact birth date, time and location so a professional astrologer could chart their horoscope to make sure they’d work well with the team. Surprisingly, the company is still in business and doing very well but yeah, if I were asked that today I would have skipped right to being born in the year of the bull and not bothered to stick around for the rest of the interview.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Did you write to AAM about this? I feel like I remember seeing this story before and I’m really hoping there aren’t multiple companies out there doing this.

        1. Nanc*

          This was 1990ish (I think). I have no idea if they still do this but they’re still around and seem to be doing well. If they are still doing it, I have to wonder how one finds a reputable astrologer for the process and if it’s their equivalent of a paid background check.

    26. STEMlady*

      I’ve gotten “tell me something about yourself that would surprise me…. and I’m not easily surprised.”
      So, I try to wrap in one of my work-applicable hobbies into my answer. “I coach a collegiate competitive public speaking team in my free time.”
      “Well. You’re well spoken, so that doesn’t surprise me.”
      What do you want me to say? Are you trying to find out if I’ve committed murder?

      1. Not So NewReader*

        “I can’t surprise an intelligent, thinking person such as yourself.”

      2. paul*

        I think I’d just jump right for the juglar there.

        “I know what people’s entrails look like” (surgery, not evisceration!).

      3. Blue Anne*

        I would be so tempted to just go with the most personal, gross things. I’m so done with interviewers who ask this kind of question.

        “I’ve thrown up with my jaw wired shut before”
        “I’m pretty sure that when moving out of every flat I’ve ever lived in, I accidentally left a dildo behind”
        “When I’m the shower I blow my nose on my hand”

        1. Snazzy Hat*

          “And then there was the one time I left a dildo behind on purpose…”

      4. DecorativeCacti*

        I hate these kinds of questions. I remember even in high school having multiple sessions of “tell this stranger three things no one else knows about you.” There’s a reason no one knows those things!

        1. Snazzy Hat*

          I would try to keep those as benign as possible.
          “The last time I cut my toenails I barely left anything on my pinky toes, I didn’t drink orange juice this morning, and my wrist hurts.”

    27. ZNerd*

      We actually have asked that question (or one very similar), as a way to start closing out the interview. It makes no sense as a first, or early, question, so I feel your confusion there! But after we have discussed what is ON the resume, and what the job will be, that question allows a candidate to tell us something that perhaps wasn’t resume-worthy but now seems relevant after our conversation. Some did that; some told us about a hobby or other non-work experience. The latter is also interesting, though rarely particularly relevant. We did find we need to fine-tune the wording in the question, to make it clear we weren’t asking about personal/sensitive info, etc. Something like, “Now that you’ve heard more about the position and our firm/dept, is there something you’d like us to know about your experience that we wouldn’t get from your resume?”

    28. Audiophile*

      A few interviews back, I had the interviewer ask me what I wanted to be when I grow up. I think I’ve shared this here before, but it definitely threw me. It must have been clear by the expression on my face, because she shared that she didn’t feel like a grown up. I can say I feel like a grown up and this struck me as such an odd question.

    29. JustaTech*

      For a lab job I was asked “Your phone isn’t working. What do you do?”
      I ran down the troubleshooting I would do (power button, borrow a charger to charge it, check for moisture, Google for faults) and they seemed pretty happy, although one guy wanted to know why I wouldn’t take it apart (“Because that might void the warranty and I don’t know enough about electronics to know what I’m looking at when I get it open.”)

      They were looking for problem solving skills and your problem solving approach. It was a pretty good question.

      Nowadays the question would probably be different if only because smartphones are less user-serviceable.

    30. Taylor Swift*

      I don’t think that’s a very weird question, although I would have expected it to come at the end of an interview.

    31. Kimberlee, Esq.*

      I was once asked if I was more like a pirate, or a ninja. In the context of the interview, it was actually a really good question, because while I got it “wrong” it was a good gateway to talk about some ideas that are really important to their culture, as well as being sort of ‘on brand’ for them (this was a place that had pop-art-style pictures of Darth Vader and c3p0 in the break room, for instance). It was weird but I did not begrudge them the question at all.

    32. Cute Li'l UFO*

      I have gotten the “what’s not on your resume that you’d like to tell us that’s not on your resume” question and that is generally towards the end of the interview. I’m a visual/graphic designer so that’s usually my cue to rap everything up and to talk about something else about me that I might have missed.
      One of my favorite questions (another end of interview one) was “If you had $500 to spend at Target on yourself however you want, what would you buy?”
      It almost sounded like a trick question (or perhaps I overthink things) but it was actually a good way to keep some dialogue going. Another now-employee they interviewed had answered “socks” because nothing beats a fresh pair of socks every day. I answered that I would have bought new paper materials, glue sticks (always dried up when I need them), probably some of whatever crazy art stuff they have, and of course all the other Target incidentals that leap into your cart.

      1. nonegiven*

        I couldn’t spend $500 at Target if my life depended on it. The most I’ve ever spent at Target at one time was about $35 when they had a deal on the catfood I use.

    33. Kowalski! Options!*

      “You have just been informed that, in two hours, a group of forty aliens will be arriving in the office for a cooking class, and they want to learn how to make sandwiches. How would you plan the course?”

      This was for CurrentJob, and it was the main interview question for an instructional design position within a level of government. Luckily, one I’d worked in before, so I was able to throw in the names of the appropriate forms and procedures to be used for different things. I don’t think that my answer helped me as much as knowing how procedures around here worked.

    34. De Minimis*

      Not weird, but more annoying. I’ve mentioned the interview before where the interviewer wouldn’t tell me what the job was.

      She asked, “What if the job was digging a ditch? Would you still want to do it? Because I don’t want people who want to avoid hard work.”

    35. Aria*

      Weirdest interview question I’ve ever gotten: “Do you believe in magic?” Follow-up question: “Would you rather meet a gnome or a troll?”

      The interview was for an attorney position at a small personal injury law firm.

    36. Anon here*

      I’ve gotten that question, but at the end of the interview. “What do you want us to know?” “What else should we know that wasn’t mentioned” etc. Weird questions… “You have 5 blocks. How do you arrange them?” (This was for a reference librarian position.) Another one was at the end of the interview, “Quick! You have 45 seconds! Why should I hire you?” (Academic Librarian position)

      1. Snazzy Hat*

        “Quick! You have 45 seconds! Why should I hire you?”

        Burns: Let’s make this sporting, Leonard. If you can tell me why I shouldn’t fire you without using the letter ‘E’, you can keep your job.
        Lenny: Uh, okay… um…. I’m… a good… work… guy?

    37. Elizabeth West*

      It was in a group interview for a front desk position at a “cool” manufacturer. (Group interviews really suck for stupid reasons anyway.)

      1. The question was “If you were an ice cream flavor, what would you be?” I said I’d make up my own flavor instead of picking one.
      2. I have no fooking idea why they would ask us such a stupid question.
      3. If anyone asked me that again, I’d say, “Are you asking my favorite because we get free ice cream?” In hindsight, I wish I’d said this that time, because this was the kind of place where they had a ping-pong table and other “fun” employee perks.

      I did get a second interview, but the job didn’t sound all that great once I got in with the hiring managers. They rejected me but I would have turned it down anyway. IMO, their process was too much fol-de-rol for a front desk position.

    38. Jennifer Walters*

      I had an interviewer who turned around and check his email on his desktop while he interviewed me. He turned back around and said, “I just got an email from a graduate of Chocolate Teapot University, which is a far superior school to Vanilla Teapot University, where you graduated from. He apparently wants this job as well. Why should I hire you and not him?”

      1. Cookie*

        Those sorts of questions are awful, although rarely are they that specific. I always say that I don’t know enough about the other candidates to compare myself to them, but these are my strong points …

      2. Kimberlee, Esq.*

        Hmmm, I’m not really a fan of the style, but it seems like he wanted you to talk more about your education and what you thought it meant/what you learned or did that you think makes you a good candidate. It’s a tad precious, but I could see the value of it as a question for a relatively entry-level job.

        Conversely, he could just have been trying to see if you were snobbish about schools, or bought into school snobbery, or wanted to see how you defended your credentials when they were challenged?

      4. Jennifer Walters*

        Cookie and CM, those are both my usual go-to responses! Great minds think a like.

        I think I found it more appalling than I usually would because it was an interview for an associate position at a three-person law firm. The first question was “Why are you willing to work for basically nothing?” Then he proceeded to talk about himself and his practice, totally normal, but then it segued into his twin sons and what they were doing at their Tier One school, which the interviewer also graduated from. After twenty minutes of not getting a word in, the email incident happened. I should mention that I also went to a Tier One school, it just happened to be five rungs lower than the e-mailer and his twin sons. I responded with something along the lines of “While my school may be ranked a bit lower, I took full advantage of my education, going above and beyond, which my clerkships and credentials showcase.” This was met with, “Well, how great can taking full advantage be with a lower ranking?” So, after that, I was basically out.

        Luckily, my next interview was with my current firm, which was 100% focused on merit and not pedigree. :)

    39. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

      A legitimate question asked at a weird time: I’ve had a couple interviews where the interviewer began with “So, do you have any questions for me?” Ask that towards the end of the interview, fine. But what would be the purpose of asking that before we’ve even started discussing anything?

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I’ve had that question once. It was an hour-long interview for a psychotherapy course though, which is like nothing else, and it made total sense – interviewer asked if I had any burning questions at the start, which meant I could then focus on answering.

    40. Overeducated*

      I have gotten variations on that same question starting off multiple interviews. It threw me at first until I decided to interpret it as “tell me about yourself in a way that isn’t just repeating your resume” and now I basically use it as an opportunity for an elevator pitch with a little more personality.

      The weirdest ones I’ve had were “what are 3 words your friends would use to describe you? Your family?” I had a really hard time thinking of words that would be most accurate and relevant to a job. Also, “how would you improve X program?” as the very first question, with no info given about X program beyond what was on the job description.

      I have also been asked to bring “an object that says something about me” to an interview, but that actually represented a job related competency so it made sense in that specific context.

    41. S*

      the weirdest and coolest one I ever got: If you were an animal, what would you be and why? Just got this one in an interview the other day :-)

    42. Nic*

      I had something similar, where the person who interviewed me (second round) came in and said “I’ve read all of this, and that got you here. Tell me the things that aren’t on there that will get you farther.” Basically the same question, but it came across totally differently than in your case. In this case, I actually liked it.

  2. Sunflower*

    My boss quit and now they are debating where to re-hire for her job. I found out through the grapevine that 2 higher-ups are arguing between slightly above avg cost of living city(where I live and our 3 person team sits) and high cost of living city. 90% of our events take place in HCOL city so I travel here quite often(a few times a month) as we do not have a team member based here. Cities are about 1.5 hours from each other. My boss was in a different office than either of these cities. The job has not been posted yet.

    I’ve wanted to move to HCOL city for a while. My company is very hesitant about hiring there because of paying increased salary and thus the back and forth. However, it would be cheaper for me to be there than a manager.

    I’ve spoken to my boss and she said I will probably need to make a case for my move regardless. She wants me to speak with our director at my review but that’s not for another month so I think it’s best to do it today or sometime early next week.

    Anyway I’m debating between talking to director today with the info I have on hand or waiting til next week and crunching numbers over the weekend. I think we will about break even with $$ but having a team member there will reduce the work we put on other ppl in my dept who are not on my team and I think it just makes sense all around.

    IDK if I’m looking for advice or just reassurance. I’ve been nervous about going forward with this move and this feels like the perfect time to go for it. The answer, regardless of what it is, will bring up a lot of new questions for me and my career. Wish me luck!

    2. straws*

      Definitely good luck! Having the exact numbers in hand has its benefits, but there’s also value in having a discussion first to drive your analysis. I’d let circumstance, your instinct, and your knowledge of the director drive your call. It sounds like a great suggestion, even if it doesn’t end up being the final decision.

    3. Casuan*

      My initial thought was to ask for more infos first so you don’t put the effort into planning a case if the opportunity doesn’t even exist.

      After a little more thought, I think you should wait to ask. In the interim, decide if this is really what you want, crunch the numbers & other variables to decide if you really can do do this, & start to prepare your case on the infos you have. After you do talk with the director, you can then adjust your case as warranted.

      my reasoning:
      If you’re anxious [in a good or bad way] about the idea of moving, you’re probably not going to stop thinking about it so you might as well begin to sort them out. This should help you think of logistics you haven’t yet thought of & it might give you some questions to ask your director.

      Also, you don’t want to be ambivalent when you talk with anyone in upper management, especially if they’re not yet convinced of what they want to do. If you’re certain of your commitment then you can phrase your questions accordingly & confidently say that you think you’re a good candidate for the job & ask for a meeting* so you can tell them why. The “why” should answer the benefits to the company & that you want to move to the city in question.

      *”ask for a meeting” as opposed to a quick exchange in the office or in a corridor

      Sunflower, you seem to be pragmatic & thoughtful about this, which is a really good thing!!
      Good luck!!

    4. Sunflower*

      So this afternoon they just posted my bosses job in the same city as me. Not sure where to go from here. It’s still worth bringing up but I’m slightly bummed since it seems like I may have lost some of my leverage :(

      1. Casuan*

        One step at a time, Sunflower. You just received more information. Decide if you really do want to move, crunch the numbers & make your case.
        [Imho!!]

      2. Handy Nickname*

        You got this, Sunflower! Ask for what you want and see what happens. Good luck!

  3. Lizzle*

    I just want to thank everyone here… you have helped me while I was out of work, prepping my resume and cover letters, dealing with interview and application drama and managing this new role and the challenges. All the comments and even the good vibes that may be sent silently, it’s helped me so much! So no questions or venting today – just gratitude! Group hug :)

    1. Analysis Paralysis*

      I second this! I’ve been waiting for 4 long days to say this:

      I GOT THE JOB!!

      Thanks to the excellent advice from Alison and the commentariat, I definitely improved my cover letters and thank you (follow up) notes, which were 2 areas that intimidated me. While I already felt confident about interviewing/being conversational, I picked up some really valuable tips that added further polish to my interviews.

      I really appreciate the sense of community in this blog & the commentariat. I enjoy the engaging topics and Alison’s thoughtful responses. I get a lot of value from the variety of perspectives that commenters provide, and really appreciate the conscious effort made to retain a welcoming & respectful environment.

      I’ve been unemployed since Jan 1st & avidly reading this blog during the day. Once I start NewJob, it’s going to be hard to discipline myself to wait until *after* work to read each day’s posts!

      To everyone who is looking for a NewJob – even though job searching is time-consuming, frustrating and sometimes painful, keep at it! Alison’s job search advice is spot on and well worth following. Also reading this blog lets you know that you are not alone!

      TL; DR – Thanks Alison & commentariat! ~~~Sending good vibes to everyone reading~~~

        2. Analysis Paralysis*

          Thanks so much! I am excited but starting to get pre-first-day jitters.

          I just read the company Dress Code, a 12 page document complete with photographs. I knew when I applied that they were “on the business side of business casual” but wow… it’s rigid. I don’t want to create a word wall, so one example, all tattoos must be fully covered/not visible. I don’t have any tattoos but still…wow. I work in IT (although not for technology company), in a non-customer-facing role. Thankfully I don’t crawl around under desks installing equipment because that would quickly wear out my dress slacks. The whole thing is just a bit surprising — OldJob was at a very conservative bank, where even roles that required wearing a suit every day would’ve allowed women to wear peep-toe or sling-back pumps.

          I can deal with the dress code (like I said, I knew it was more-business-than-casual) but I’m concerned that this rigidity will manifest in other areas like work-life balance. During interviews, I asked questions to ascertain their culture and didn’t get any bad vibes or red/yellow flags. I think all this mental clutter is actually a manifestation of my anxiety over the unknowns of new job/new people/new place. So I’m trying to relax and focus on the reason I want this position at this company: they are committed to this role as a distinct profession/practice/skill-set, so much that they have a well-regarded “center of excellence” for my profession that includes internal continuing education etc. I have 10+ years experience, but I want to become more well-rounded. That’s more important than getting to wear a polo/golf shirt to work. OK, self-pep-talk is over. :-)

    2. Lizzle*

      Oh, there’s another one of me. Hi. *waves.* I think perhaps I stole your screenname? I hadn’t seen you before.

      1. Lizzle*

        uh oh perhaps i stole yours… you can keep it, I change my name up quite a bit anyway :) but always lovely to meet another me!

    3. This Daydreamer*

      I GOT A JOB TOO!!!

      This was after years of hell starting way back in middle school that included severe depression and anxiety, along with undiagnosed ADHD, severe insomnia and even PTSD. Nope, never got my degree and probably never will.

      After completely bombing in college, I got a retail job that had its good points and also the first of the series of abusive managers. I always seemed to have a range of great-to-nightmarish managers all at the same time. But I loved customer service. Then company rules stuck me behind the cash register every single day as a head cashier and I was utterly miserable and in constant agony from plantar fasciitis. I had to follow all corporate rules or get in trouble and, if someone was unhappy with corporate rules, my (mandated) decision was undermined and I got in trouble.

      Yeah. Every single emotional ghost came to haunt me. I started oversleeping and arriving late. I knew it was coming but being fired destroyed me.

      So, I started volunteering. It got me out of the house and I felt less useless. First it was politics, and then it was a DV shelter. I was answering the hotline and managing the shelter for four hour shifts. And I got good feedback after every shift.

      So an overnight manager/hotline staffer position opened up. It was much the same thing I was doing, but with a bit more responsibility, a much longer shift, and, finally a paycheck. All I had to do to apply was write my first-ever resume and cover letter. Eek. I had nothing to put on either one of them.

      Alison, you saved me. I was able to scrabble together a resume and cover letter that were good enough to get me an interview. The fact that the more experienced staffers all vouched for me didn’t hurt, but the thought of selling myself on paper terrified me. Now I’ve got a part time job that will give me a little wiggle room to pursue jewelry design and writing and THANK YOU ALL!!!

      1. This Daydreamer*

        And, yeah, I’m crying right now. I think I’ll blame it on upending my sleep schedule.

  4. Doug Judy*

    I am looking to make a career shift. I have a BS in Business Admin with a Finance emphasis, and my career for the past 12 years has been in finance. Two years ago I realized how much I hated, and would always hate my work, so I went back to school and am going to graduate next Friday with a Masters in Organizational Leadership and Development. I loved my program and feel HR is my calling. Problem is I have little HR work experience. I did develop training materials for my roles, and was always the one chosen to train new employees, help with interviews/recruitment. That was the only thing in my prior roles I enjoyed.

    I was laid off in February. I have an interview this afternoon for a Staffing Consultant at a recruitment agency. I know it will be sucky hard work, and a step back pay wise. Pretty much any job in HR around here that is not recruiting requires either a PHR or a SHRM certification to even be considered. Is it a wise career move to take a job like this? Or is working as a recruiter in a staffing agency not going to help me land future roles?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I think it could be beneficial as a way to get you some recruiting experience. Based on the job title, I am wondering if your interview is with the agency I work for. If so, you will get to source candidates, which most HR positions are looking for experience with, and also get interviewing experience. When you’re switching careers, you sometimes have to take a step back to get some of those basic skills.

      1. The Vulture*

        Where’s Detective Rosa Diaz? Get her in here for her input!
        Sorry, just really enjoying all the regular commentators from Brooklyn 99 here, so good!

      2. Doug Judy*

        Yes, I’m realistic that I’m going to have to be entry level for a bit and it’s not forever. Have to start somewhere and it’s slim pickings without certification.

        Thanks Santiago. Us in the Nine-Nine need to help each other out! Haha.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          If you don’t already, I will recommend polishing your LinkedIn profile and trying to extend your network.

          Good luck! Let me know if you have any questions about working in staffing. I enjoy it.

    2. Emily S.*

      Given how unhappy you were previously — it makes sense to switch. If you can get any HR/staffing job, go for it. If you do well in that position, you can work towards getting certification. Of course that would take time, but it’d be worth it!

      It seems to me that a recruiter position would be a logical step in the right direction. (Speaking as a non-HR person, that’s my view.)

      Best wishes and good luck today!

    3. Jadelyn*

      Congrats on your Masters, first of all!

      Secondly, my only caution is that if you’re looking to get into non-recruiting areas of HR, don’t linger too long in a recruiter job for a staffing agency in particular, because in my experience that tends to pigeonhole you as “just a recruiter” – which is great if you’re looking to make a jump into recruiting for a company (vs a staffing agency), but if you wanted to get into benefits administration or employee relations or training/development, being “a recruiter” could wind up being hard to extricate yourself from down the line. Most of the HR pros I know are mildly disparaging about agency recruiters and see it as more of a sales position than an HR role.

      However, that said, it could be a good way to get your foot in the door, especially since you can make a lot of contacts with HR people at non-staffing-agency companies when you’re working with them to provide candidates for their open positions, and that could come in handy when you’re ready to make the jump across. Plus, I believe working as a staffing agency recruiter should count as time toward being eligible for the SHRM-CP since they only require that 50% of your time be spent on HR duties, vs HRCI’s specific job titles requirements for the PHR. So you stay in that role for a year, get your SHRM-CP, and you’re positioned to start looking for non-recruiting HR roles or at least in-house recruiter roles that can help you get exposure to and position yourself to move into other areas of HR.

      Also, you might look at going for your aPHR now rather than waiting til you’re eligible for the SHRM-CP or PHR – Associate Professional in Human Resources, which is the “entry level” version of the PHR that they just launched last year. I got mine as part of the first rollout of the exam, the test wasn’t too bad imo (though to be fair I’m one of those people who tests well pretty much no matter what), and you can use that as a declaration of intent – “Look, I’ve taken the first step since that’s all I’m eligible for, but you can see that I’m interested in continuing in that direction.”

      1. Doug Judy*

        Thanks for the advice. It would definitely be a short stint if I get this job. My ultimate goal would be more employee relations and development, particularly helping improve mental health support within organizations, which is where my thesis research was based.

        I was looking at the aPHR certificate. I test super well too, but didn’t know if it would be worth it. But I’m glad you said its going to least help look like I’m committed to this career path. I do plan on getting one of the other certifications as soon as I am eligible.

        1. Jadelyn*

          I asked my manager about the aPHR when it came out and she literally did not let me finish my sentence before saying “Yes. Go sign up. Put it on your corporate card.” The more advanced HR professionals I’ve talked to have agreed that when they see someone who’s gotten that, they see someone who’s in the profession for the long haul and looking at moving up, even if your current title is only (like mine) HR Assistant or something else entry level.

    4. Chicago Recruiter*

      I started as a recruiter at a staffing agency and then made the move to corporate recruiting/HR. Please keep in mind that agency recruiting is a sales job at the very heart of it and not a true HR job. If you don’t have an aptitude/stomach for sales (I didn’t), I would avoid agency recruiting. HR can be tough to break into, I’ll be totally honest, especially since employers may think you are overqualified for coordinator/admin-type roles since you have a Masters, but you don’t have actual experience for anything higher up than that. With your finance background, have you maybe considered payroll type positions? In many companies, payroll falls under the purview of HR but uses finance skills. Your best bet may be networking. If there is a local SHRM chapter, that would be a good place to start. Sometimes I don’t really understand the appeal working in HR holds lol, it can be a really thankless job and a lot of employees really hate HR since they have to act with the best interest of the company in mind and that can ruffle some feathers. Best of luck!

    5. Kimberlee, Esq.*

      If you haven’t already, you might look into Office Manager jobs at smaller companies/orgs… they are usually HR by default and it’s a great way to get started in HR and learn widely about everything in the field. In my first professional job, I was an OM and I did benefits administration, payroll, some employment law compliance stuff, and some workplace culture/development stuff, it was a great start.

      (PS love the user name! nickelodeon forever!)

    6. Belle*

      I actually made the switch from finance to HR myself after completing my MBA. Like you, I realized that the finance/accounting work I was doing wasn’t for me. I worked for a small nonprofit and volunteered to take on some HR work while looking for a new job.

      Some HR jobs are easier to get with little experience. HR Coordinators and Recruiters are two common ones. They can help you start working on your skills to move up. I moved to a larger organization at entry-level and told them of my desire to grow with them. I took on some reach opportunities and eventually moved to and HR Generalist role and after a few years to an HR Consultant role. So sometimes working for a larger organization can allow you to grow internally.

  5. KR*

    Dear AAM, after 2 weeks of business travel I am trained and ready to actually work. Go me. It’s still fun eating out and exploring fun cities in the evening but I am so happy to be home.

    2. H.C.*

      Ditto, as much as I enjoy business travel in new cities, I start getting homesick after 4-5 days.

  6. LAI*

    I interviewed with 2 people yesterday for a job that I was very excited about. The first interview went great. In the second, the job started to sound dramatically different from the job description (imagine a job description for a senior teapot maker, and them saying there is actually very little interaction with teapots). I’m actually pretty sure I’m not interested anymore. I’d only consider it if i could talk to the first interviewer again, and she reassured me that the second person was off base. In this case, should i just withdraw? Should i bother writing thank you emails if i can’t genuinely say I’m excited to hear back from them?

    1. k*

      Instead of withdrawing, you should ask for clarification. In your thank you email to the first person mention that as the interview process progressed the job description was different than what you expected, and you’d would it be possible to discuss further what the day to day duties of the job are. It may be that the second person was off base, or that the description was wrong. You should at least find out.

      1. wearing too many hats*

        +1 k is spot-on. Using this approach will also demonstrate your professional acumen and preserve your employer/candidate relationship for future openings (if this one weren’t work out).

    2. Jules*

      You should totally send the thank you notes – even if you aren’t excited, they took time to talk with you. I think you could use the thank you email to ask for clarification, as in, ‘Thank you so much for the chance to talk about the Senior Teapot Maker job. I really enjoyed our conversation, and love making teapots. I do have a question, though – in the second interview, we discussed Inspecting Teapots and Selling Teapots. How do you see those tasks fitting with the Teapot Maker role?’

      It gives them a chance to clarify, and maybe get both their interviewers on the same page.

      1. Casuan*

        This.
        Definitely send Thank-you notes.
        As for clarification, this can be tricky. I’m never quite clear if thank-notes should ever be for anything other than “thank you” although I think Alison & the AAM community consider interview thank-you notes to be more about a recap than a thank-you, so I’ll defer to others.
        [Please someone correct me…?]
        At the least, send a simple thank-you to each interviewer.

        If you expect another interview then you can clarify the job then, although you might want to clarify so you can opt out of the process. If & when they make an offer, be certain to obtain details in writing,

      2. wearing too many hats*

        Totally agree with you, Jules. I probably read too much into it, but when I receive a thank you note / email following an interview I tend to think that the candidate 1) has got their sh#t together 2) understands office / professional life 3) thinks about more than just themselves

      3. LAI*

        Thanks guys. You’re right, I should definitely write the notes. Even if I end up not accepting, it’s still polite to say thank you.

    3. Doug Judy*

      This happens to me with my last job. The department I was hired in was expanding and recruiting for several positions simultaneously. I’m not sure if she combined all the roles together or if the department really didn’t know what each person would be doing, but what I was told by the recruiter was not what the hiring manager described. The HR person said it was X, Y , and Z with her making Z seem like a very small part of the job. In my interview with the hiring manager we talked about Z a lot, and I just figured it was because most of my past experience was in that.

      The job was all Z tasks. Had I clarified that the HR recruiter was wrong, I probably would have turned the job down. I’m glad I took it only because it showed me I hated the field entirely, so I can’t completely regret it.

      In your case definitely clarify with the person you’d be reporting to. The last thing you want to do is take a job when your not really sure what you’ll be doing.

      1. LAI*

        Thanks Doug Judy! Yeah, the first interviewer is the person I would actually be reporting to, but the second interviewer is higher-up in the chain. Even if the first person was right, it still seems like a pretty big red flag that they were on different pages about what the job was supposed to be…

  7. salary range question*

    If you are being unofficially recruited for something, is it ever OK to ask if the posted salary range is flexible before you apply?

    I heard about a job indirectly via a former manager, whose org is doing the hiring; he sent it to a current coworker and asked her to pass it on to me and another person. It sounds fantastic, like the description was magically written for me. The problem is that my current salary is right at the top of the posted range, and I wouldn’t consider moving unless I got at least a small increase.

    I haven’t talked to Former Manager in a long time but Current Coworker says I’m welcome to email him directly with questions. Is it OK if one of my questions is whether the posted salary range is negotiable, or is that a terrible faux pas? I’ve never applied for a job with a posted range before!

    1. Lilo*

      My feeling is that, if you are being recruited, this is okay. If you were not being recruited then I would be more hesitant, but they reached out to you and it is fine to express your dealbreakers in this situation. You have to be prepared for it to be a “no”, of course.

      1. jackson's whole what*

        Yeah, I feel like if they’re the ones reaching out to you, then the standards are different and it’s totally okay to know what they can pay you before progressing further.

      2. wearing too many hats*

        +1 agree! if you’re being actively recruited and it isn’t a rigid corporate structure, a hiring manager could definitely see you as being WORTH IT to pay a bit more (especially after you seal the deal with an interview). I once heard an experienced HR Generalist say that experienced “superstar” employees are 1 in 10,000. I’d argue it’s more like 1 in 100,000! If they think you’re that “1” and they have the flexibility, then that is so worth it in ways that can be quantified (training costs, learning curve, etc) and ones that are priceless but that don’t show on the balance sheet (being able to work independently and to hit the ground running!).

    2. Natalie*

      I think it’s fine, for two reasons – firstly, as you mentioned, you’re being recruited.

      Secondly, you have a relationship with the manager the question is a little less fraught. The main reason people advise not to ask about salary to early is that you’re a completely unknown quantity to an employer, so every interaction carries a lot of weight. But that’s not the case here – your former manager knows you and knows your work product, which should prevent her from making wildly inaccurate assumptions about you based on the question.

      That said, it’s not clear to me why you would ask your current co-worker, assuming he doesn’t work at both places. He’s not going to be able to answer questions about someone else’s company.

      1. salary range question*

        Sorry, I wasn’t being clear on the last point. The “he” in that sentence actually refers to Former Manager. It makes more sense when you are in my head and know that Current Coworker and I are women and Former Manager is a man :)

    3. Lily Rowan*

      I think salary should always be one of the first things discussed! But I guess I work with money all day, so I’m used to it. Maybe I’d wait to do it in a call rather than an email, but what the heck.

  8. Networking Question*

    I will finish my master’s degree in August. My advisory committee is strongly encouraging me to attend the national meeting of our professional society later that month to network. I told them networking wasn’t my forte and they assured me that I would be fine and they would introduce me to people (my committee are all highly-regarded in our field). I have a job that is broadly related to our specific field that I am not intending to leave until at least 1 year after I finish my degree; I also don’t have any business cards and will not be there in my current professional capacity anyway. I’ll be there as Dr. X’s recently graduated student who is looking for exciting future opportunities. I haven’t really done any networking since business cards were still de rigueur. Has networking changed significantly in the smart phone era? What networking tips would you offer to me and people in similar situations?
    Also, our profession works in academia, public, and private sectors if that makes any difference about the networking.

    1. NotMyRealName*

      Make cards. Vista print is cheap and having all of your contact info ready to hand to people is very useful.

        1. Roman Holiday*

          My grad school strongly encouraged/required us to have cards made while we were in the program. Even though it seems a little dated, I still swap cards with people at conferences, it’s a really easy way to make contacts.

          My cards said something like:
          Name
          Masters Candidate 2017 (year you’ll graduate)
          Bumblebee University School for Rice Sculpture
          contact information

          1. Networking Question*

            I’ll have had the master’s degree for about 3 weeks when I get to the conference, so I don’t really want to use the university name on the card, that would look a little weird I think.

            1. gwal*

              I’ve attended a conference with little cards like this, and no one thought it was weird at all! The cards didn’t turn into any new opportunities in the end, but that’s often the case with networking and I ended up in the same workforce development program that a person I met at the conference had enrolled in a year earlier (we actually met again at the interviews for the program, current participants were there to answer interviewee questions, and the person remembered me). The cards said something like….

              Firstname I. Lastname
              Seeking opportunities in teapot painting, design, and/or history of painted teapots.

              (555) 555-5555
              email@site.com
              MTP 2010, Teapot Painting – Educational Institution B
              BS 2006, Art History of Teapots – Educational Institution A

            2. siobhan*

              That wouldn’t be weird at all! It’s an accurate representation of credentials you’ve put time, money, and effort into earning. It’ll also be important for contacts to remember who you are and why you were at the conference. You’ll have earned the degree, so your degree information – which includes the university name – will be yours to use. Own it!

            3. NotMyRealName*

              Absolutely put your university name on the card! Here’s what was on the card of a recent PhD. at a conference I was at last summer:
              Name
              Graduate Research Assistant
              University
              Department
              contact info

              1. Jerry Vandesic*

                You can probably also get your university logo added. I did this when I was in grad school

            5. Networking Question*

              I think it would be weird to put the university name on the card because I won’t be affiliated with the university anymore. I have a regular job at a completely different institution but I won’t be there in that capacity either. Maybe I should list my subsection affiliations instead?

              1. siobhan*

                But you will be affiliated; you’ll be an alum of your degree program. University name, degree, and year received = totally legit for you to use on a business card.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            This and leave the back side blank (white) so people can write on the back or you can write on the back before handing it to the person.

            1. hermit crab*

              Oh, this is important! My company’s current business card design has a giant version of our logo on the back. It renders the back of the card totally useless (both for networking purposes and for reuse, like when your office phone numbers change and suddenly you have 500 outdated business cards that you can’t even use for your grocery list).

            2. Alice*

              Definitely! In fact, after you have a short but interesting conversation, write down something distinguishing about you or the conversation on the back of the card before you give it to them — it makes it a lot easier for them to remember what they might want to follow up with you about.
              Do this on their card too — your idea for why/how to follow up with that person. Going to a conference is only worth the money if you are going to really actively build and maintain relationships, which few people do. (Which is why I have a box of cards of people whom I can’t remember, and a much smaller set of relationships developed at conferences that are actually worthwhile.)

    2. Blue eagle*

      Go to one of the business supply box stores and have some business cards made up. They have choices that are relatively inexpensive. Or get some hard cardstock and make them up yourself. They don’t need to say anything more than (a) your name, (b) contact info and (c) something about yourself that substitutes for business name and job title. It is important to have business cards available to hand to people, and make sure to ask them for one of theirs. Then once you get home, be sure to write on their cards where you picked them up. That way in case it would be helpful to you to get in contact with them, you will remember in what context you became acquainted with them.

    3. TL -*

      Know your elevator pitch, be friendly, ask questions about other people’s projects/research/jobs. Academia-wise, look for people whose research you’re interested in and see if you can form a loose connection (follow up email, meeting them at future conferences).

      If there’s any area you’re specifically interested in, glance over recent papers/publications/news and you can follow up if you meet them. “Oh, I was very intrigued by your paper on X. Did you think about Y/how did you get results Z?”

      People are generally there to talk about their research and work, and luckily, it’s something you’re very interested in as well!

      1. Networking Question*

        Hmmmm. I have never heard of anybody in our field using elevator pitches.

        1. Government Worker*

          I wouldn’t call it an elevator pitch, necessarily, but be prepared to answer questions about your work and experience and what you want to do in the future in a clear and succinct way. You don’t have to have a pitch, but also don’t ramble at people or say “I don’t know” when they ask what you want to do in the future.

          For me, it would have been something like, “My research has been working with our local teapot agency on new ways to use data in teapot design. I’m trying to decide whether I want to go into teapot consulting or look for a position with a public coffee agency, since most teapot agencies I’ve looked at don’t seem to have the budget to do their big data projects in house.” Brief, but it gives people enough to respond in a meaningful way.

          1. TL -*

            Yes, that’s what I mean by elevator pitch – who you are and what you do very succinctly, but with enough information that they can probe if interested.
            For instance,
            Advisor: This is NQ, a master’s student in my lab.
            New Contact: Hi NQ, what do you work on?
            NQ: I’m on Advisor’s structural teapot project. I’ve been primarily focusing on spout curvature in white chocolate – it’s so delicate! – and I mainly do mathematical modeling focusing on tensile strength of different chocolate mixes. .

            Vs
            NQ: Oh, I’ve been really focused on alpha prime lately! You know, the derivatives of shown by Eugene’s lab have been really helpful in refocusing syrup content percentiles. Everything thought that Muller’s work was definitive on the subject, but I found that by redefining the alpha value as a whole integer, you can vastly expand the area under the curve tolerable.
            (…I ran out of mathematical terms)…

            The first is your elevator pitch and it’s so much more effective than the second when you’re trying to make new contacts.

            1. Blue eagle*

              Elevator pitch just means – what would you tell the person if all the time you had was the time in the elevator going from the first floor to the tenth floor. So, less than one minute.

              All field’s use an elevator pitch, even if they don’t call it that to try to sell their product/idea/self.

        2. Kimberlee, Esq.*

          It’s helpful to not think of it so rigidly as an “elevator pitch.” You basically just need to have a short response to the question “what are you looking for (at this conference, in your career, etc)”.

      2. Casuan*

        This & Government Worker’s clarification on the “not an elevator pitch” pitch.

    4. Government Worker*

      I was in a similar position recently, but with a conference that was one of those 10,000+ people convention center deals, where randomly talking to people isn’t actually that useful because they may be in a part of the industry that does wildly different things. At my conference, the most useful things would be a) going to poster sessions, where it’s easy to strike up a conversation with the presenters about their work and you can see from the poster what the person’s interests are, b) finding smaller receptions, like those focused around an alumni, identity, or interest group, and c) scheduling coffee or other one-on-one meetings in advance. Vendor booths also occasionally led to interesting conversations, as did being highly selective about sticking around to talk to people after a talk, if I chose the topic and speaker carefully (had to be something where I had a genuine comment or question afterwards, not a made-up excuse to approach someone).

      Would your advisors consider identifying a couple of key contacts to set up short coffee meetings with, or letting you tag along when they have lunch with old industry friends they’ll see at the meeting?

      And yes, have some business cards made up. In grad school we were able to get them through the school, which looked all schmancy.

      1. Networking Question*

        This conference is for members of our particular professional association, so I expect a couple thousand people but not that huge. I’ve been a member on and off for over ten years and I joined right after I got my bachelor’s degree. I’m a member of a couple of sub-sections of the larger association, so I figured I’d look into those events. Also there are at least three dedicated evening networking events in the evening. One is specifically for new grads like me and we can sign up to be paired with an older member of the association. I think I will do that. Yes, my committee would probably be ok with me tagging along with them to meet people. They basically ordered me to attend the meeting last time we had a meeting to discuss my defense.

    5. OtterB*

      Seconding others’ advice about having a business card. If you don’t want to use information about your current employer, then in lieu of a job title have a short phrase about your subspecialty or field of interest, so that when people find your card later they can remember why they have it.

      Also seconding the suggestion of poster sessions. Depending on the conference, if there are roundtable sessions on a topic that interests you, they are also good for being able to talk to people who share your interests. (A roundtable usually has 8-10 people sitting around a table discussing a particular topic or piece of research.)

      See if the conference has a session on the opening day for first-time attendees.

      See if the professional organization has something written up on tips for getting the most out of the conference as a new graduate. (If they don’t, consider volunteering to write one for a newsletter or blog. Seriously.)

      Ask your committee explicitly what tips they recommend for a first-timer to get the most out of the conference.

      If you know any grads a year or two ahead of you, ask them.

      If you find yourself a wallflower at a reception, look for someone else who isn’t talking to anyone and introduce yourself.

      Good luck with it, and have fun.

      1. BorderLeicester*

        Also a grad student, but the issue here is that for some reason, our university actually prohibits graduate students from having business cards related to our university work. I double checked with my PI but he said we are explicitly not allowed. I graduate in less than a year and will be going to our field’s big conference in July – hoping to try and see what might be open re jobs by the time I graduate. I acknowledge that the dept policy puts me at a bit of a disadvantage here but my plan was instead to make sure I got business cards from people I spoke to and write thank-you emails after the conference. There’s no official networking events at the conference, but I am going to the graduate student seminar. Any tips? I don’t want to go the traditional academia route, but would rather work in cooperative extension or some sort of research+outreach area.

        1. nonegiven*

          Get a domain and post a web page to put your resume on and put the URL on the card with your other contact info.

          1. BorderLeicester*

            That seems a bit like obeying the letter of the law but not the spirit. I have a LinkedIn, but given that the rule appears to be ‘grad students cannot have business cards’ I’m not sure if circumventing the rules like that would be a good idea.

            1. Networking Question*

              Wait, I’m confused: I thought you couldn’t have any with your grad affiliation, but now you are saying none at all?
              If it is the former I think you should get a generic one like folks are advising me to do. I think we may be in tangentially related fields because 2 of my committee are in cooperative extension (as well as holding academic posts). I also would-maybe- like to work in cooperative extension, but not in a public-facing role.

    6. Job Hunt Blues*

      Yes, business cards are still standard. What you put on them varies depending on your field and workplace. If you have a website you feel comfortable including, even if it’s just a blog or LinkedIn account, I would do that. But if not, I think your name, credentials, and email address are fine.

  9. AliceBD*

    I interviewed with an organization (community bank) exactly two weeks ago (Friday). I was the 1st of 3 people with second interviews, and they said they would be finished with the second interviews by the following Tuesday and would know by the end of the last interview who they wanted to hire. They heavily implied that they would be letting me know that next week (now last week) what the answer was.

    Can I email them for a check-in this coming Wednesday (2 weeks after they finished the interviews) or should I wait and email them for a check-in the Wednesday afterwards (3 weeks after they finished the interviews)? They did ask me to keep them informed if I got another offer, but no where else I’m in the running for is at this stage yet.

    1. Emma*

      I wouldn’t check in with them unless you have a need to (like you have another offer). If they haven’t contacted you yet, it’s because they’re either going with someone else, or the process is taking awhile (like maybe the hiring committee has had trouble getting together or maybe they’re doing more interviews, etc). If you do get another offer, then I’d reach out. Otherwise, I’d wait to see if they contact you, and if they don’t, then assume you didn’t get the job.

      If you do decide to check-in, I’d only check-in once. If they say they have no news for you, I’d let it go completely.

      When I’ve been on hiring committees, inevitably it takes a long time. There are always unexpected things that pop up. I know it can be maddening from the interviewee perspective, but it’s just one of those things!

      1. Emma*

        One final follow up. The main reason I recommend not checking in is that if you’re the candidate they want, they’ll get in touch. If you’re not, you’re not really accomplishing anything other than possibly annoying them. But I totally understand wanting to know something about the job. It’s just that checking in is definitely more for you than for them.

      2. AliceBD*

        Thanks! Yes, it’s obvious that checking in is for me and not them. And I would only ever do it once. It’s just the timing of when I should do it. Basically I want to go ahead and hear no as I’m pretty sure I didn’t get the job.

        I’d like to know so I can go ahead and renew all my DMV stuff in my current state without hurrying. If I get the job I’m changing states and wouldn’t do my current state’s stuff as I would just have to turn around and pay even more to the new state. I wouldn’t tell the job this is why I’m checking in, of course, but just so the commenters know.

    2. Casuan*

      I agree with Emma. I can understand your wanting to save money for the DMV et cetera although your choice moment of wanting to renew & “not hurrying” makes me think you’re pushing your schedule on the employer. This isn’t meant as negative; it’s to say you don’t want to make contact decisions that can annoy or otherwise put off an employer based on your own tendencies. “I want to an update on if I’m still in the running because I need to renew things” is not a good reason & the person to whom you say this probably won’t care.

      disclaimer: I’m wording this a bit too harshly because I can’t think of how to better phrase this. Of course you know not to ask for an update like how I worded it. :-)

      Depending on the time-frames involved, I suggest doing the renewals although you might want to wait a little closer than you’re comfortable with. You don’t want to move with expired documents because that can make the process more arduous & expensive.

    3. Teapot Librarian*

      My boss and I were really excited to move forward on a hiring decision 6 weeks ago, and HR is just calling to issue the offer today. So… even if they said they’d let you know, and they haven’t let you know yet… it may just be an issue of bureaucracy or scheduling or something else holding up the works. I wouldn’t check in with them yet.

  10. Annie*

    Would love to probe the AAM hive mind! At my organization, we have several different business processes that involve routing paperwork among several people. This is all done with hard copy tracking sheets, which means that sometimes things get lost and if it’s not physically in your hands, it’s virtually impossible to know where it is in the pipeline.

    Does anyone know of any good software that helps with this problem? We’re looking for something to better manage this workflow so items don’t fall through the cracks and so we can better track progression. Thanks!

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Can you do a checklist on a Google doc or some other kind of shared document?

    3. The Cosmic Avenger*

      If the paperwork can all be filled out electronically, Sharepoint, despite its many, MANY faults, does a damn good job with document tracking, revision, and management. Set up a Sharepoint site, set up a library, and give each person an account. (Not that easy, but it’s really not too hard IMO, but that’s from a web developer’s perspective.) If you need to hire/charge for a developer, it won’t take long, and after the initial setup you or some other non-technical staff member could probably manage it.

      1. The Cosmic Avenger*

        Oh yeah, AvonLady Barksdale is right! Google Docs is simpler and free, although not as robust, you should probably check it out first.

    4. LQ*

      I used SharePoint to do a bunch of this. I’m not saying it is a great tool, but it is the tool we had at hand and it does this. If it’s a tool you already have and have trouble getting new software I’d recommend it. But if you have the ability to get fancy software I’d love to hear what other fancy things people use.

    5. Mazzy*

      My job uses youtrack dot com. You set up issues and just keep adding files and comments. It’s good for the simplistic tracking of stuff you described but I’m not sure it would work if you also wanted more sophisticated project management and analysis ability. We use it more for a repository and can only pull very simple reports

    6. jackson's whole what*

      Nth-ing SharePoint! It’s so great for this, especially knowing what’s the most recent version of a file.

    7. Phantom*

      If things follow a handful of consistent flows, I’d suggest trying a kanban board. I like Jira, which has kanban board options. But, it can be expensive and is probably overkill for what you’re looking to do. So, I’d just search for “online kanban board” and see what you find.

    8. CAA*

      If you need a free web based system, look at Trello. Each document you’re tracking would be represented by a card on a Trello board (you can even attach the docs if they’re electronic) and each column on the board represents a stop on the route. Then you just drag the cards from column to column as they move through your process. If you don’t have a specific route, but just need a way to make sure that everyone has seen a document, you can put a checklist on the card and have each person check off their name after they’ve done their part of the work.

    9. Casuan*

      confession:
      “AAM hive mind” made me think of the Borg & of course Alison is our queen. Geek that I am, I did a Google site search for the phrase “hive mind,” which led me to this hysterical post from Jamie.
      Jamie, I love how you described things. Thanks for the laugh!!

      Someone mentioned something about the Borg on another thread here the other day, so I asked my Trekkie husband about it and from what I could gather it’s some kind of mental collective? Different entities, one brain?
      Something like that – I kind of stopped listening because I plainly said if you can’t explain it to me in under two paragraphs I’ll just go to Wikipedia – because I didn’t want to dance all the way down the Enterprise road …but no…that was about 15 minutes of my life I won’t get back. It wasn’t so bad after I dozed off.

      Anyway, my point is I think Alison has some kind of alien code embedded in the site and we’re becoming a Borg.

      Unless I’m using the reference incorrectly, then I have no point. Seriously, my brain stopped working a while ago. Time to go home yet?

      source:
      https://www.askamanager.org/2012/10/i-accidentally-sent-an-email-mentioning-sex-to-my-girlfriends-work-email-account.html#comment-115878

  11. AndersonDarling*

    I’m happy to say that I pushed back on a “silly” interview question. I was interviewing for a mid-level, professional position and I was asked what kind of nachos would I be. (I’ll wait for you to finish sighing before I continue.)
    …..
    I asked why they were asking the question and what information they were hopping to gain. They didn’t know, it was just a question on a list that they were supposed to ask. The panel was slightly embarrassed and said they would talk to HR about getting better questions. But they had to have an answer since it was on the list, so I said that I would be the kind of nachos that has a job at their company.
    The saddest part was that everything pointed to this company being great to work for, but this goofy question has tainted my opinion. During the interview, I got a feeling that they didn’t have the solid systems that they were claiming, and then asking me about being a nacho made me wonder how the organization is truly being managed. I’m questioning working there if I receive an offer.

    1. Sarasaurus*

      Nachos?? I’ve heard a variation on that question, but it was ice cream, which there are at least different varieties of and you could make up a BS response. But nachos? How many “kinds” of nachos are there?

      1. Tempest*

        Yeah… The kind with cheese? What’s the follow up? Why cheese? Then I’d have to go to I got nothing here. I don’t know why cheese.

        I’m the kind of nacho who comes to work reliably and works hard while I’m there. I don’t even know what they’re hoping for. Like if you said with chili would they then want to know WHY chili? Sheesh, that’s bizarre. What answer are they hoping for other than chili because you made me pick a kind of frickin nachos and I couldn’t think of any other kind?!

      2. Persephone Mulberry*

        I’m ashamed/amused that I’ve been considering this question for the past 10 minutes.

        I mean obviously you’ve got your fully loaded restaurant-style nachos.
        Then there’s the movie theater/ball game nachos that are a bowl of chips with hot cheese sauce on the side (with optional sliced jalapenos for an extra $0.50).
        Lazy homemade nachos where you put the chips on the plate and dump some shredded cheese over the top and stick it in the microwave…

        1. AnotherAlison*

          Thank you. . .other people were commenting that there are not different types of nachos, but clearly there are. And the restaurant variety has infinite variations.

        2. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

          Well, I feel like all of you have been deprived if you can’t think of varieties.

          We’ve made hamburger nachos, sausage nachos, Wonton nachos, ranch nachos, veggie nachos, etc. The possibilities are endless. It’s like those who say that a quesadilla is just cheese in a tortilla. Sacrilegious!

        3. Snazzy Hat*

          Ooh! I would be lazy nachos! Oh wait, saying “I would be lazy” was probably a bad answer for an interview question. Oops.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Well, it’s not related to your point, but now I really want nachos for lunch. (And, wow, that is a stupid question, and I’m glad you pushed back, but sorry it’s caused you to rethink the position.)

      1. SophieChotek*

        +1 good for pushing back. I might have to try that sometime (if I get asked that question).

    3. Master Bean Counter*

      Nacho employee.
      Yeah to you for pushing back on the stupid question!

    4. hermit crab*

      Wait, there are different type of nachos? How is that even a question? What possible range of answers could they be expecting? (I think your answer is great.)

      1. tink*

        I guess you could name different kinds of proteins? But that doesn’t actually tell them anything about you except maybe a meat or vegetable preference.

      2. Cyclical*

        You could be “Ohio Nachos” which use potato chips instead of tortilla chips.

        Or Dessert Nachos, where the tortillas are coated in cinnamon and sugar and served with sweet toppings and fruit.

        1. jackson's whole what*

          Dessert Nachos sound *amazing* and I’m going to have to try those.

        2. Blue Anne*

          I’m in Ohio and the pub down the street from me has those! But they call them “Irish Nachos”. I forgot about that!

          1. hermit crab*

            Oh, I’ve actually seen those too (also called Irish Nachos). I’m at a loss to say whether potato nachos or tortilla chip nachos would be better at an office job, though.

        4. Tempest*

          They call those cactus nachos in Canada. Notably at Boston Pizza, which is somewhat ironic.

        5. Bryce*

          I grew up in New Mexico; both of those sound heretical. Maybe tasty, but absolutely anathema.

      3. jackson's whole what*

        Oh thank god I’m not the only one who wondered “wait, how many kinds of nachos are there”.

      4. jamlady*

        Oh, so many kinds. I could really write a good novel right now detailing different kinds of nachos you come across from different parts of SoCal up to the central valley and the desert, through the southwest and along the border through Texas…

        Then there’s that very sad plate of “nachos” my (Texican) friend and I ordered in Cork, Ireland that basically ended up being pita chips with ketchup lol

      5. tigerlily*

        I personally am a big fan of the tater totcho where we use tater tots instead of tortilla chips.

      6. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

        We have a local restaurant that uses wontons instead of tortilla chips. Another basically makes poutine but with wonton, homemade potato chips, or tortilla chips.

      7. detached anon*

        Nachos are nachos.
        Anything other than beef or chicken as the primary protein is just faking it. Don’t even try to call tortillas topped with lobster & sauce “nachos.”

        Also, burgers are burgers. Anything other than beef is just wrong. I’m not against other foods in the burger form, I’m just against calling them “burgers.”

        It’s a semantics thing. The dictionary might show me wrong although I’m too attached to my opinions to change my stance.

    5. Emilia Bedelia*

      That’s a fabulous response. Kudos to you for having the presence of mind to push back, and the chutzpah to say the kind of answer that we all wish we could say in that situation

      1. AndersonDarling*

        I was interviewing with a laid back group and we were laughing a lot about situations that come up in our jobs. Because it was so lighthearted, it made it easy to push back. When I asked about the question, everyone started laughing about how silly it was.

    6. Blue Anne*

      Good on you for having the cajones to push back on being a nacho.

      That’s such a dumb question. I’m with Sarasaurus here – I’ve heard of “What kind of _____ would you be” questions, but always things where there are lots of kinds, at least. What kind of vegetable, kitchen utensil, or animal would you be? But NACHOS?

      Uh…. I would be the kind with lots of guacamole but no jalapenos, because I have a wussy palate, I guess?

      I wonder if the person who wrote that question is just a nacho connoisseur hoping to find a nacho-tasting buddy at work.

    7. Blue eagle*

      Fabulous reply. Is it OK if I use your answer anytime I am asked this type of meaningless question in an interview?

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Sure thing! There have been some open threads about these kinds of questions and I always though that I would respond with “I’d be the ___ that has a job here,” but I never, ever, ever, thought I would actually be asked one of these questions.

    8. Amber Rose*

      I’m torn between sighing, face-desking and succumbing to fits of giggles. Nachos! Did they pull that one off a Facebook quiz?

      1. Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farms*

        Buzzfeed: “Put together a plate of nachos and we’ll tell you what kind of market analyst you should be!”

    9. k*

      Good for you. It sounds like they really don’t have a good hiring process if they didn’t even know why they were asking that question.

      And I know it’s been said, but seriously? Are there really different kinds of nachos? Yeah, you can put variations of toppings on them, but it’s not there are different names for that. They’re still just nachos. And now I want nachos.

      1. hermit crab*

        Let’s all eat some nachos later. Virtual AAM nacho party! We can justify it by saying it’s in the name of research.

        1. k*

          I had some cheese and crackers with my lunch…does this count as a type of nacho? Cause if so, I totally participated :P

    10. Beancounter Eric*

      I’d have to answer “beats me, I don’t eat nachos”…..don’t really like cheese, unless it tops a round flatbread with tomato sauce, various meats (Pepperoni, Canadian Bacon, Italian Sausage) and mozzarella & Romano cheeses.

      Since my wife and cardiologist would like me to lose a few pounds, the above described dish is off my diet at present. :-(

      And the interviewers not knowing why a question is being asked is not a good sign to me.

      1. Cookie*

        Same, I’m lactose intolerant so I would by want to be a nacho. And I wouldn’t want to be an inanimate object that’s consumed by people either.

      2. Nic*

        That’s been my thought while reading thorough all these comments. I can’t deal with melted cheese (texture), so mine would have to be “deconstructed nachos”. Give me the ingredients and I’ll eat them separately, thank you very much.

        Bummer on not being able to eat so many things you enjoy.

    11. Lynxa*

      Wow. They didn’t even try to tapdance a reason? Just shrugged? The interviewers aren’t allowed to make their own questions?

      Yikes.

    12. Casuan*

      Congrats on pushing back!!

      For me the red flag is that they acknowledged the question wasn’t relevant, said they’d ask HR for better questions & insisted on an answer just because it was one their list.
      They all stuck to the list…?!!!?

      You gave a good answer. Definitely go with your visceral reactions on whether or not to work for this company.

    13. nonegiven*

      Venison chili and cheese nachos, because they have both venison chili and cheese on them.

    14. Job Hunt Blues*

      I’m baffled by the fact that we live in a society where answers to questions like that are actually job qualifications (or disqualifications). What happened to finding out if you can do the actual work and get along with your co-workers?

    15. Chaordic One*

      I don’t know how I would answer a question like this. As I’ve stated here several times previously, I have food allergies (specifically dairy allergies) and I don’t eat nachos or ice cream.

      1. Clumsy Ninja*

        Totally with you, Chaordic One! I have so many food issues that these questions would have made me just start laughing.

  12. KatieKate*

    Just had a weiiiiiird email exchange with a former board member trying to get involved with a situation that had nothing to do with her. The supervisor that should be dealing with this is out until Monday, but I think I’ve sidelined the issue enough. But the conversational was way more institutionally political than I usually get involved with, so I had to rewrite my email a few times to make sure it was safe enough to send.

    Ugh. Who else has dealt with big donors/important community members trying to gets hands on with something that doesn’t concern them?

    1. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      I feel your pain as I deal with this a lot with long term volunteers. It can be exhausting trying to figure out how to nicely say back off to someone who has clout and a loud voice.

    3. Clever Name*

      Ugh. I hate political stuff. My own personal rule is that if I’m struggling to compose an email or I rewrite it several times because the topic is so fraught, I pick up the phone and give the person a call. But I know that’s not always possible.

      1. KatieKate*

        See I generally prefer email for something like this because then there’s no she said/she said, and and I don’t accidentally say something I’m not supposed to. But I get why you might like a phone call

    4. Possibly Petty*

      Sorry you were put in such an uncomfortable position! This happens to me every now and then so I feel your pain. I interact with our board members the most (aside from our Executive Director) and some of them feel compelled to contact me directly about things they shouldn’t involve themselves with. A lot of these things don’t have anything to do with me, either, and correspond with a completely different functional area.

      My ED has instructed me to CC him on any responses I send to them. It was a little awkward at first – I felt almost like I was “tattling” on them by doing so – but they eventually got the hint and have backed off a bit. My ED gave them a heads up he instructed me to do this so it helped that he had my back in this situation.

    5. Chaordic One*

      When I’ve run into situations like this, I kick them up to my supervisor. She’ll either deal with it herself or give me specific instructions. But, yeah.

  13. Nervous Accountant*

    This may not be exactly work related and I hope it doesn’t derail into a political discussion, but I read about the repeal of Obamacare and the “preexisting conditions” that can prevent getting health coverage. Does anyone know how this will affect employers? I get my health insurance through my company, I have a preexisting condition, and I am absolutely terrified of what’s going to happen to me and my coworkers :(

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Given the high potential for this to derail and the fact that the bill almost certainly won’t become law in its current form (the Senate needs to pass its own bill and then it needs to go to conference and there is lots of room for big changes or for it to stop moving entirely; it is far, far from law at this point) so any discussion at this point would be speculation, I’m going to ask that we not delve into this here.

      1. gwal*

        Are there any workplace-health-insurance-issues bloggers? Not a facetious question but do you know of anywhere that might be well-suited to address this question? Maybe once all the Senate stuff has been squared away…

    2. chickia*

      Employer health plans even before obamacare generally only didn’t cover preexisting conditions for a certain amount of time (6mo-1 yr), and only if there was a lapse of coverage. So please don’t worry! If it goes back to the old system, all it means is that you need to make sure you keep coverage continuously – if you change jobs don’t let there be a gap, pay for COBRA if you need to if the new job’s coverage doesn’t kick in for a certain amount of time. Also employer health plans are group plans and you can’t be denied coverage. Please don’t lose sleep over it until there’s more concrete information!!!

  14. Sarasaurus*

    At my one-on-one with my boss this week, she made a comment that I’ve seemed unhappy lately and asked if I’m considering leaving. I’m not, and I don’t really know where that came from. It’s true that I’ve voiced frustrations over how certain projects have gone, but I’ve only done that in private meetings and in (I hope) a professional, even manner. It’s not like I’ve gone on long rants about how everything sucks.
    I was pretty taken aback and said something like “I’m not unhappy, and I hope I’m not coming across that way! What makes you bring it up?” and she gave a vague response about how I’ve just seemed “off.” I didn’t really know what to say, so just told her the truth, which is that I have no plans to leave.
    Is there anything I can do about this? Short of keeping a smile plastered on at all times, I’m not sure how I can convince her that I’m relatively happy here. I don’t want her thinking I have a bad attitude.

    1. Director of Things*

      What type of relationship do you have with your boss?
      Do you have weekly one-on-ones? If so, I would probe into this at the next meeting. Maybe once she’s had time to reflect on your answer, she can give you a better response.

    2. k*

      That sucks. Your response sounds like it was appropriate. I’d say just make an extra effort to watch your wording when speaking with your boss, so nothing is taken the wrong way.

    3. Possibly Petty*

      That is odd that she couldn’t give you more specific reasons for thinking you are unhappy. Do you have any trusted co-workers or peers who you can ask about this? It’s also possible that a co-worker mentioned this your boss, too.

    4. INFJ*

      That would drive me nuts. I hate being misunderstood, and I hate feeling like I have to walk on eggshells in order for my words/actions to not be misinterpreted.

      You should be able to professionally voice concerns about projects/processes without your boss interpreting it as overall unhappiness with the position and intent to flee (!!). The only potential explanation I can come up with is that maybe she was primed to think that way. For example, a personal friend was complaining about a job she hates just yesterday, and you happened to use a similar phrase that she did. But that’s being generous.

      I also think your response in the moment was the best you could do. This may be worth mentioning 1 more time. “I was really taken aback by when you said… and was hoping to get more clarification.” Maybe after that first interaction, your boss has reflected enough to come up with actual specific examples other than “you just seem off”, OR realizes her perception was off.

    5. Lucy Richardson*

      I’m surprised folks are responding so negatively. Unless she said something else that’s making you think she wants you to leave, I would take it at face value.

      This is a thing good managers do – if they notice an employee seems unhappy, they ask why to see if there’s anything they could do to better support the employee to retain them.

      1. INFJ*

        This is a bit more than checking in.. I think asking if she’s considering leaving is taking it to another level.

      2. Sarasaurus*

        It’s not the checking in that’s bugging me. I just don’t want to be perceived as negative or like I’m whining when I bring up concerns. It seems like a huge leap from me saying “abc project was slightly frustrating because of xyz,” and her reading that as me wanting to leave.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I’d let it go. Unless you hear other concerning things from her, just assume that you answered her question satisfactorily.

      It’s either that or spend the rest of your days trying to convince her you are staying put.
      We can’t “make” people change their minds. We can only tell them the truth and then go about our day. See, if she is watching you go about your day, she will notice that you are working/acting like someone who has no plans on leaving.

      1. Casuan*

        Agree to letting it go.
        This has happened to me before & I know my manager meant it to be kind. We were acquainted outside the office through social circles although not enough for her to know me personally.
        I told her I really was okay. What took me aback was that she gave me a long look & said “I don’t believe you.”
        I said I appreciated her concern, reiterated I really was okay then I asked her if she had any concerns about my work.
        She did not.

        If your boss mentions this again, tell her that you really are okay [or skip this assurance if you’re not] & ask if she has any concerns with your work. Also, don’t try to explain or to talk just to fill a silence. Almost always that will be interpreted that one’s initial “off” impression is accurate.
        Show that you’re okay by continuing to do your job well.

    7. late to the party*

      Ugh, I’ve had this exact conversation with various staff members over many years (as the manager). As a manager I don’t want to ignore the fact that employee just doesn’t seem themselves (over a period of time) and if the employee hasn’t brought up any concerns then I have this conversation to try to open the door to a conversation about why things seem different (because many people won’t initiate this conversation, but will be open if approached). Too often employers don’t recognize or ask about these changes and an employee may leave the organization over frustrations or concerns that could have been rectified if they were identified when they first occurred, so I see your boss asking you these questions as being caring and proactive.

      However, Sarasaurus, the thing is is that two things jumped out to me in your post:
      1) “… about how everything sucks.”
      2) “… I’m relatively happy here.”

      It seems like perhaps things aren’t as okay as you’d like to convince your boss (and yourself?) they are – ? Your post also seems focused on what your boss thinks, rather than how things actually are – is it possible that that is what you’re actually doing/feeling at work and your boss sees this? If so, people around you would almost certainly experience your words and behaviors as being incongruent, resulting in these kinds of concerns / questions.

      2. late to the party*

        sorry – but I’d reconsider “letting it go” because it sounds like there is a real reason the boss asked these questions and that your answers probably didn’t satisfy their concern(s), so it is likely to come up again.

      3. late to the party*

        p.p.s. don’t bother with “keeping a smile plastered on at all times” in an effort to make this go away, because it won’t work; people can always sense / recognize insincerity a mile away!

        Best –

  15. Folklorist*

    It is time for your gray-and-gloomy, stormy-day (in this corner of the world) ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST!!! If you’re stuck inside like me, you might as well do something you’ve been putting off, then come back here and brag about it!

    I’m currently proofreading the deadliest-dull report on what should be an exciting topic that ever blighted the Earth.

    1. Amber Rose*

      I’m updating a spreadsheet with all the PO’s for the last couple months, because we have no other way of tracking POs and inevitably that is the only information a customer will have when asking questions about a particular teapot.

      This is as mind numbing as it is tedious.

      I’ll be back when I’ve done a few more entries.

      1. JaneB*

        I have to grade 163 first year statistics assignments. And it’s a BEAUTIFUL day here, but because of the New Better System I have to work indoors on a computer, can’t even take paper copies outside…

    2. Temperance*

      I need to clean my office and create a master To Do list, because I’ve been so disgustingly busy that I haven’t done it. Sigh.

      I sent a few files to our filing team, which is progress!

      1. Bibliovore*

        My favorite! Thank you for posting.
        Deleting old files from my computer.
        Finishing two reports that are weeks overdue.
        Filing.
        Thank you notes to volunteers from last week’s event.
        Reviewing graduate student’s capstone projects.
        Proofreading documentation.
        Travel expenses.

        Good news- finished and submitted to a professional journal and got an email back. No Revisions!

      2. Teapot Librarian*

        I’ve spent almost all week working on my to-do list instead of actually doing things on my to-do list. So I wish you luck with getting your to do list created.

    3. Emily*

      I’m working today on 5 hours’ sleep (don’t ask). Currently playing my Dance/Club playlist from YouTube and looking forward to lunch hour.

      The upside? Boss is on vacation, and I have very little to do until 5. Which means a caffeine-fueled dance party at my desk.

      Living my best life right here!

      1. Folklorist*

        I LOVE caffeine-fueled desk dance parties! Those used to be my favorite ways to wake myself up. Now I share an office with my two supervisors, so it’s slightly too awkward (mostly because they would probably enjoy it too much and post embarrassing cell phone videos to YouTube.)

        1. Emily*

          Aww! I’m lucky, I have a personal area that makes it easier. (Plus a window. So nice.) It’s crucial for me since I hate sitting all day.

          Have a good weekend! And get down at home. There are some good dance/techno/R&B videos on YouTube.

    4. Bethlam*

      Gray and gloomy stormy WEEK here – our lunch time walking group has only made it out one day this week – we’ve missed more days this spring due to rain than we did all winter due to cold and snow.

      I’m procrastinating on everything. I’m losing my job in 3 months (my company is closing my facility) and it’s been a looooooong death (we were told 8 months ago). I was doing okay, but it’s getting harder and harder to stay motivated and care about anything. But your post has inspired me and I’ll go find something and do it; will report back.

    5. INFJ*

      I’ve been putting off all week a task that I detest: Part of my role for a specific project is reaching out to a half dozen people I don’t know in other departments and nudging them to get their deliverable in by a certain deadline/inquiring if it will be done by Deadline. Part of this deliverable includes them uploading their documents to a notoriously difficult and unintuitive system, so I almost always get questions or have delays.

      I got it off my plate this morning, and I’m crossing my fingers that there are no technical difficulties this time around.

    6. JeanB in NC*

      I’m sorting through boxes and boxes of stuff that were in the business office before I started here. It’s amazing how much of this stuff is going straight to the recycle bin. I’m keeping stuff strictly based on our retention, and I’m boxing up, labeling, and numbering older files and making an excel list of contents of each box.

    7. Elizabeth West*

      I’m putting off stuff until this weekend–it’s supposed to be nice–because I have a massive headache and I’m supposed to go out later to my nerd group. Hoping to do some purging.

  16. Amber Rose*

    I just want to say that if several members of your organization go to a thing, and come back with :[ faces, and you ask what happened, and the story starts with, “Wakeen stood up and said ‘I’m Wakeen with [Organization] and…’ ”

    You don’t need to hear the rest of the story. I don’t think any story starting that way has a good ending.

    On the plus side, it sounds like he was only the second most embarrassing person in the room. The first tried to sing a whole song (but was cut off at the beginning of verse 2, I’m told).

    In other news, vacation starts next Saturday, I have got an average of 4 hours of sleep per night for the last two weeks, and I can’t focus to save my life.

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      Yeah, that’s always a bad sign. Wakeen is always that guy too.

      2. Chaordic One*

        I don’t know why, but I’m always surprised when it’s Wakeen. I always expect it to be Fergus.

    2. Mazzy*

      Did he ask a stupid question in front of your competitors that made you look incompetent even though you aren’t?

      1. Amber Rose*

        Apparently the presenter made a kind of joke/innuendo about something we use, and everyone else kind of laughed but Wakeen stood up and decided to take it on himself to explain in great detail why we use the thing we use, and it’s history, and the materials it’s made out of…

        Which sucks because we were trying to generate some goodwill and have more people sent in our direction and I think he burned it down with that particular person.

        1. Mazzy*

          Oh lord yeah sometimes people don’t get that meetings are about building relationships and seeing folks face to face and not always about exchanging hard and fast facts

      1. Lily in NYC*

        OOHHH, I get it now! Duh. I didn’t realize that Wakeen was embarrassing in general. I thought you meant the bad part was that someone said “I am Wakeen from [Org]”.

      2. Amber Rose*

        Usually it’s followed by someone being embarrassing, and consequently making the whole group look ridiculous. Particularly because in this particular situation, he really didn’t need to introduce himself at all. It was kind of weird that he did.

    5. Casuan*

      Oh, my!!!!!

      My holiday begins next Monday, so all I need to do is to make it through one more week with as much sleep as I can manage… I’ve just started to get enough sleep to think straight.

      Amber Rose, try to rest when you can & don’t wait until your holiday to do at least one thing for yourself each day.
      Bon voyage!!

      ps: Yes, the rest of the story please! Even better if there’s a video…
      Lol

  17. Ern*

    Just left my miserable without another lined up and trying to decide the best way to explain why I left. There were layoffs in my dept but I wouldn’t have been laid off and was considering just saying “downsizing” as my answer to why I left, particularly because I was only in the role for 6 months. I left in large part due to abusive clients and unsupportive management who cut our benefits and increased our workloads to rather than replace staff who left or were let go. The stress was affecting my physical and mental health and I wasn’t able to leave work to take care of simple things like doctor visits or therapy. Any thoughts on how best to frame this? I know it’s never the ideal and it wasn’t my ideal but I felt like I needed to choose my health over a thankless job.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Hmm. I left my last job– horrible, awful, no-good fit– after they took all of the work I wanted to do and moved it to a different office. This wasn’t the reason I left, but I learned during interviews that NO ONE questioned it. In fact, I got a ton of sympathy. If there’s anything like that (i.e., your increased workload did not allow you to focus on the parts of the job best suited for your skills, or something), then I would hold on to that. I think the trouble here is that downsizing was the reason you left, but you weren’t downsized– the decrease in personnel made your job much more difficult.

      You can always say it wasn’t a good fit, but that only works well if you know exactly what would make it better. As in, 6 months at a start-up and interviewing at a much larger company? Start-up wasn’t a good fit. Too much client work while interviewing for a behind-the-scenes job? Not a good fit.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      I left a company that was going through layoffs. Even though I wasn’t being laid off, I used that as my reason for leaving and all my interviewers understood. Layoffs create an overall uncertainty, and everyone understands that people will jump from the ship before it sinks.

      1. Windchime*

        Yeah, my previous company was bought out by a big outfit with a different culture. When I was interviewing as I was getting ready to jump ship, I told prospective employers that we were recently bought out and I was concerned about stability in my department. It was kinda true, and nobody questioned it.

    3. TCO*

      It sounds like downsizing, even though your job wasn’t eliminated, really did create the miserable culture. Maybe something like, “We are going through a period of layoffs and downsizing. The resulting workloads made the job untenable to the point that it was harming my health. My compensation was also being cut and it was clear that the company’s struggles were just too much for me to have a future there.”

      1. Jules*

        I think that’s too much detail. “We were going through a period of layoffs and downsizing’ is usually enough. If you really want to add more details, or if they specifically ask, ‘were *you* laid off’, then you can add ‘It was clear that the company’s struggles were too much for me to have a future there’.

        ‘workload harmed my health’ would be a red flag to me if I were interviewing.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Depending on the population size of your area, the interviewer may already know why you left.
      I have heard:
      “You worked for Bob for x years and survived? We want you working here.”
      “I have no idea how anyone could last so long at THAT place.”

      At that point I just sort of smile, which kind of acknowledges, “okay we are on the same page” then I redirect to something else.

    5. Jerry Vandesic*

      A good generic answer is “some family matters that I needed to take care of.” They don’t need to know that the family member was you.

    6. Nic*

      I’ve been there! Good for you for getting out and picking your health over the job! Good luck on your future hunts.

      I would probably frame it as “The culture wasn’t what I was led to understand pre-hire, and when combined with severely increasing workload due to layoffs I decided to look for something which would be a better fit.”

  18. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    I am between things and have literally nothing to do at work- what do you all do when you have downtime? I have completed all of my continuing ed lectures, and didn’t bring a book. So I’ve been writing so as to keep from being glued to my phone.

    1. Temperance*

      Make appointments? When I have some free time at work, I take a break and deal with all the life stuff that I regularly ignore.

    2. jackson's whole what*

      I find youtube trainings on things I find interesting, stuff like that.

    4. hermit crab*

      When we have nothing to do, we have to use PTO! No overhead time for us. I’m jealous of big firms that pay for people to be on the beach. :(

      (Sorry, that’s not helpful. I’m just feeling a little sorry for myself.)

    5. Annie Moose*

      I write, read the news, try to find articles on topics I’m interested in–that’s all I got.

      1. INFJ*

        Yep. I am also having a slow day and spent most of it catching up on industry-related news. Lucky for me, I find it very interesting!

    6. k*

      I read up on industry blogs and articles, anything just to keep my mind busy. Usually the articles aren’t relative to me immediately, but I’ll come across ideas to keep in mind later.

    7. Emily*

      Note: all of my suggestions rely on internet or phone data.

      I often play music on YouTube (I’ve made several playlists – including one called Happy Classical Music, check it out: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkz5t-x6ZuQ5rh1_if78YnQ3-Oef6fCr5 )

      Instagram and Twitter are goldmines. I follow lots of museums on Instagram, because I like learning about art and seeing cool photos generally. There’s a Twitter account called Arch[itecture]Pics that’s super-cool if you’re into that: https://twitter.com/archpics I just try to avoid politics on Twitter.

      Also: Podcasts! Amazingly interesting and enlightening. I recommend NPR’s in particular. Great stuff. StoryCorps is my fave.

      Next, I recommend Pinterest. Into cooking? Create boards of fun recipes from across the web. Like photography? Create boards of amazing photographs that will blow you away. (BBC Earth has some great ones to start you off, also Flickr Explore.) Like graphic or interior design, fine art, etc.? Make a board… You can save lots of ideas easily.

      Do you like reading blogs? I read food blogs and also interiors blogs. Lots of good ones, too many to list.

      Anyway, have a great weekend!

    9. Jules*

      Look at long-term projects that I *wish* I could do. I spent a year mapping out our Teapot parts procurement process and an parts ordering and inventory database in my spare time. Two years later, I was actually able to pull out my ideal and use it to contribute to the real design, which has been in place for another two years, and does 90% of what I wanted. We couldn’t get one data link, so that still happens manually, but otherwise, it’s pretty sweet.

      Think about what you do and find some piece that’s frustrating, then dream better ways for that piece to happen. Ways that don’t include disposing of recalcitrant co-workers, of course. But maybe ways that bypass them… (I am so looking at you, internal pricing team)

    12. Beancounter Eric*

      1. Professional reading’
      2. Archive email
      3. Archive the mass of paper on my desk, while wondering why we can’t go paperless.
      4. Interesting business-related, but not directly related to my job reading.
      5. Count-down the time till my vacation (14 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes, 5 seconds – and counting!!!)

    13. LizzE*

      Work related tasks:
      1.) Organize desk and/or files on computer
      2.) If I know I will be involved in a project later down the road, do planning, researching or outlining ideas (even if this all gets scrapped when project starts)
      3.) My role is part administrative, so evaluate/audit department procedures and look for ways to improve

      Non-work tasks:
      1.) Read – industry blogs & publications, news sites, or AAM
      2.) Use lunch breaks for long walks or power errand running (to alleviate boredom)
      3.) Lunch or coffee meetings with friends, co workers or industry colleagues (not suggesting to take a longer lunch break, but it easier to do these engagements when not bogged down by work demands or deadlines)
      4.) Attend industry events, seminars or workshops (if the boss is okay with it)

    14. Nic*

      That sounds like most of my days (I mostly monitor systems, so when things aren’t broken there’s downtime)!

      AAM, for sure. I generally go through the news on google (picking several countries; it’s interesting to see how the same story is presented, or what is presented for each), read cracked.com, or fall down wikipedia holes. I also listen to audiobooks, and have been working on my doodling skills with zentangle techniques.

      When I feel like being more productive I will go through process documents and procedural manuals we have and tweak/update as needed, or create new ones where a need shows itself. I sometimes also take e-learning classes that the company provides. You may be able to find something through Khan Academy or something similar.

      I know how painful having nothing to do is. I hope you find something that helps!

  19. Anon for this*

    I work in a smallish Teapots industry. For many years, I’ve said to my boss that I had zero interest in working with Chocolate Teapots. This is not due to my lack of interest in Chocolate Teapots, but actually due to an intense desire to avoid working with my colleague who specializes in Chocolate Teapots. This person is toxic, to the point where multiple people have quit to avoid working with her. The Chocolate Teapots Department is at war with us because of their interaction with this colleague, and the Director of Chocolate Teapots refuses to talk or meet with her without an intermediary present. As you can guess, the management at this company is not…functional.

    A position in a neighboring company in the exact same industry has opened up, but the work is related to Chocolate Teapots. The company is close to my house, pays more, and has a reputation of being well-run. I have some experience with Chocolate Teapots, and I have years of experience in the industry, so I think I have a decent shot. However, the industry is so small that I think my boss will eventually hear of it. Am I shooting myself in the foot if I apply for a position that I’ve thus far vehemently rejected? FYI, my boss has tried to recruit me into Chocolate Teapots for years to try and reverse my colleague’s toxic influence, but so far I have managed to keep myself out of the fray.

    1. jackson's whole what*

      ” to try and reverse my colleague’s toxic influence,”

      Yikes.

      I think you can point to the other aspects, such as “it’s a shorter commute”, and hopefully avoid the conversation where you might have to say “when I said I didn’t like chocolate, I meant I didn’t like THIS chocolate, and not all chocolate”.

    2. Jessica*

      This sounds great for you, and you should totally go for it! Hopefully if people exercise decent discretion, your boss will hear of it when you resign. And she will get one of two benefits from it. It wasn’t wholly clear to me from your letter whether your boss has direct authority over ToxicColleague.
      If your boss is the boss of TC, then she will get the valuable message that she needs to start managing already, or she will continue to lose her best talent to better-run workplaces while her team continues to be a seething hive of dysfunction.
      If your boss is not the boss of TC, then she will get the equally valuable message that the management above her is critically flawed, the dysfunction will never end and if it accidentally did, new dysfunction would soon follow, and that she also might want to start a job search if that isn’t how she wants to live.

      1. Anon for this*

        He is TC’s boss. His solution for TC’s behavior has been to move TC around, which resulted in multiple department uprisings over the years. Strawberry Teapots despised us for a while, Vanilla Teapot’s Director sent several official letters saying they cannot work with TC. I think his solution/punishment for TC is to make TC work with Chocolate Teapots, and there simply will not be any more moves. Everyone else in the department has also refused to do any Chocolate Teapots work (because the relationship has broken down so much) so I’m sure he knows full well that TC is a problem, but has no intention of solving it.

        1. Amy*

          If you’re at the point where a director is sending official letters saying they can’t work with TC, I feel pretty comfortable saying that TC needs to be fired. This is really incompetent management.

    3. Sadsack*

      You only have rejected it because of the person you’d be working with, so I don’t understand how you’d be “shooting yourself in the foot”. Go for it, if you are interested. I wouldn’t be worried about what your current employer thinks, if that is an issue for you. If you are asked why you are leaving for this job you said you aren’t interested in, you can say it was just an opportunity you couldn’t pass up if you don’t want to tell them the truth.

      1. Anon for this*

        Yeah…I think it’s a situation where we both know it’s a lie but I feel squirmy making these business white lies.

    4. Jules*

      Your boss is aware of the toxic colleague, I bet your boss understands the real reason you don’t want to work on Chocolate Teapots in your company. You leaving for Chocolate Teapots elsewhere might even give your old company some leverage on getting rid of toxic colleague, as in, ‘In the exit interview, I asked Anon for this why not move to our Chocolate Teapots, and she/he specifically cited toxic colleague. So we are losing talented people because of toxic colleague, can’t we get rid of her/him?’

      Mmm, I wish I could just make myself use ‘them’ as a singular pronoun.

    5. CAA*

      If you haven’t told your boss that the reason you don’t want the job is because of the toxic colleague and have only said that you have “zero interest in working with Chocolate Teapots”, then yeah, he’s probably going to be a bit confused. I don’t think it’s shooting yourself in the foot to apply, but try to have some answer ready for when your boss comes to you and asks what’s going on. Shorter commute, more money, change of scenery, getting away from toxic person … any of these is fine.

      1. Anon for this*

        Chocolate Teapots is actually a huge department with a large workload, and my boss has shown through the years that he has no intention of getting rid of TC, so I think if I had just said “I can’t work with TC” he would have told me to suck it up. I’ve basically taken on 4 other Teapot departments specifically to avoid Chocolate Teapots.
        My real worry is that if I don’t get this job, I will be pushed into Chocolate Teapots after all.

    6. Lefty*

      You’ve rejected THAT job in Chocolate Teapots… not every job in any Chocolate Teapots department anywhere. And from the sound of it, for very good reason.

      Are you worried that your boss will find out if you take the job? Or are you concerned what will happen if your boss finds out about your interest if you stay were you currently are? If your current boss does find out and asks, you can always cite the commute… or you could pretend you didn’t know it was focused on Chocolate Teapots. “I thought the job was more general Spout work, but that’s interesting to hear. I’m glad things worked out so I can stay, focused on Vanilla Spouts!”

      1. Anon for this*

        I’m worried that if I don’t get the job and he learns of it (sorta likely cause of how small the field is) he will push me into Chocolate Teapots. He’s been desperate to find someone else to do the work. I’m known as someone who can get along with anyone and have rehabilitated several other difficult teapot departments so I feel like it’s only a matter of time.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          “Rehab work? Oh my bossman, that will cost you extra. If I have to do rehab work on a personality PLUS do my own job I am working like two people and expect to be compensated accordingly.”

          Go one step at a time here. Apply for the job. Ask for reassurance about the confidentiality of your application. Then make a plan for what to do if news leaks out.

          If super pressed about it, I think I would just tell the boss. “You have had ten people quit because of Jane. I will not allow myself to be subjected to her tirades/verbal abuse/other behavior. It is your choice to keep her. But I will not make myself work with another person who feels it is okay to routinely denigrate a fellow human being.”

          1. Anon for this*

            Hah, the more I’m typing this out and reading these comments, the more I realize I just need to get out of here. Period. If not this job, then another…

    7. Amy*

      I don’t see how you’d shoot yourself in the foot here. Your manager might not hear about it. If they do, they might not question it. If they do question it, you can give a sidestepping answer (it’s a better commute, they offered you a higher salary, etc.), and dodge the issue entirely. Or, you can tell the truth–when you said you didn’t want to move into Chocolate Teapots here, what you were saying is that you weren’t willing to work with this problem person who comes with that area. Given that your boss obviously knows this person is a problem, and has been directly told that before, that shouldn’t be a surprise to them at all.

    8. Troutwaxer*

      “Oh, you must have misunderstood. I meant the department.” (And if you do throw me under the bus and make me work with TC, I’ll go home that night and start working on my resume.)

  20. CmdrShepard4ever*

    Hello I have a friend who is interview for a job. The person that most recently held this job was hired in Feb of this year, so this position has become vacant in three months. My friend has received a initial phone interview for the position. The question is should they ask about the short tenure of the position in the initial phone interview or wait to see if they get an in person interview and ask at that time?

    1. jackson's whole what*

      If the initial phone interview is with a human resources person, I wouldn’t ask then, they might not even know. If the initial call is with the manager or the team, then, yes, I’d ask then.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      Absolutely ask. I have been so burned by this before (recruiting agency lied and said the last person left due to a promotion – when in reality she quit after three weeks and I was the 4th person to have the job in a year. I only made it 5 months before I ran screaming).

  21. Throwin' it all away*

    I have a question about how much is too much information to give your manager. My coworker left work last week to start cancer treatments for advanced breast cancer, and her work is being transitioned to me–quite a few specific, one-person workloads. It’s do-able, temporarily. Complication: I found out yesterday I may also have breast cancer. I should know for sure within two weeks, but if it does turn out to be cancer I think I would need to leave work pretty much immediately. Since we’re already living our contingency scenario for managing an unexpected absence, our team’s deliverables would be in jeopardy if I had to leave too.

    At what point should I disclose this to my manager? I want her to be informed but I don’t want to freak her out unnecessarily. Things are pretty emotional around here.

    1. jackson's whole what*

      I hope you don’t have cancer and get a clean bill of health and everything goes well. If the worst happens: don’t disclose before you know. And talk to your doctor about treatment options, a lot depends on the kind of cancer. Everyone “might get sick” at some point. The more info you can give your boss about your availability, like “I am going to be out two days a week for a standing medical appointment”, the more things can be done about it.

    2. Temperance*

      I would honestly wait until you get your results back before saying anything to your boss.

      You also won’t necessarily need to leave work absolutely immediately, either, so don’t let that be the reason you tell her.

    4. Jessesgirl72*

      I think you wait until you get the biopsy results back.

      If I told everyone about every irregular PAP smear I had, well, I’d be telling them every year, for thankfully no reason. Not every lump is cancer, very luckily!

    5. Throwin' it all away*

      Thanks all. I am finding it hard to figure out if I am reacting logically or emotionally at the moment so your input (and sympathy) is very helpful. You’re right that a lot depends on what the specifics are and I should wait until I know more. I think there is a tendency to want to try to control everything you can control in a situation like this :)

      1. Sibley*

        There’s a book that you might be interested in. “Dear Cancer” by Ann Marr. It’s on Amazon I know. She had breast cancer, and journaled through it. Then later revisited her journals and published it. She had the “try to learn everything” feeling too.

    6. Judy (since 2010)*

      Don’t say anything until you know. Maybe not even until you have an understanding of your treatment choices if it goes that way.

      I’ve had 6 breast biopsies and 4 skin biopsies. No one has known except my husband. I didn’t even tell my mom. (She’s a breast cancer survivor and my aunt is a skin cancer survivor.) I never knew until the diagnosis about either of my parents’ cancer.

      And many, many biopsies are done that turn out to not be cancer.

      There are so many treatment options. You don’t know at this time what yours might be, if you do have cancer.

      Best wishes for you.

      1. Throwin' it all away*

        Thank you for your perspective Judy. Hope you & yours remain healthy.

    7. Marzipan*

      In terms of work, I think it makes sense to not say anything until and unless there’s something to say. For yourself, though, I really hope you have a supportive Team Throwin’ in place who you can turn to outside of work; or, if you don’t, that you can access some suitable help or support – this sounds like a lot to be dealing with all at once. Look after yourself and best of luck.

      1. Throwin' it all away*

        I think you bring up a good point. Team Throwin’ is all very close to me and I am loathe to worry any of them with this, but feel a little crazy keeping it in. I am going to get in touch with EAP I think. Thanks :)

    8. Natalie*

      Since we’re already living our contingency scenario for managing an unexpected absence, our team’s deliverables would be in jeopardy if I had to leave too.

      Don’t say anything until you have an actual diagnosis and treatment plan and know how it will impact your work. At the end of the day, the company’s deliverables are not your problem. If you have to leave, they will figure something out, whether that’s postponing, hiring temp help, or maybe just failing.

  22. Raven*

    Not exactly work-related per se, but as I was driving home from Florida (I live in KY) yesterday, I heard a radio host give a ‘top ten things you need to know before a job interview’ list, and I was thinking, “Oh, I wonder what AAM would think of this,’ right before he said “and this is from AskAManager.com, by Alison Green…”

    2. Parenthetically*

      I love little kismet moments like that! Also *waves* hi from another Kentuckian!

  23. Ann O. Nymous*

    I was on my office’s shared drive this morning, in the HR folder trying to look up a specific policy and I stumbled across a document titled “severance letter” from this year that was almost CERTAINLY not supposed to be save there. It’s a severance letter dated from 2 weeks ago for my infuriating incompetent coworker. Should I have seen this letter? Hell no. But I’m glad to know there’s a good chance he’s being fired.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      Crossing my fingers that it happens! But yikes that you were able to see that so easily. Our marketing director was planning to fire his assistant and HR sent the severance info to him in interoffice mail. The idiot HR rep didn’t realize that his admin opened his mail for him every day.

      1. Ann O. Nymous*

        Woof. Yeah, I feel bad that I saw it and think it’s inappropriate that it’s there, but I don’t really want to explain to my boss why I opened a document with that kind of title, regardless of it being on the shared drive. There’s too great of a chance that my boss could be pissed about that so I’m just gonna pretend I never saw it.

    3. Clever Name*

      Ha ha! I’ve come across things on our server that I know I shouldn’t have seen, and I’ve kept my damn mouth shut about it. One was a spreadsheet that I think was a review of folk’s pay. I read the hell out of that document and have never spoken about it to anyone.

    4. Former Usher*

      On our shared drive at OldJob I found an org chart that specifically mentioned cutting my position. Sure enough, a few months later I was given a choice between severance pay or a demotion and 30% pay cut.

      At the job before that, I accepted an internal transfer and the footer of my offer letter had the name of the internal candidate to whom they had initially offered the job. Oops. Later, my manager needed my help with something so she printed out an email with the details. The email chain also happened to contain a side conversation between another manager and a customer explaining that I would be “moving on.” Fortunately in that case it was just moving on from that project.

  24. jackson's whole what*

    Something I’m wondering about: what do y’all think is the time remaining on the “open plan” fad? I had a job interview recently where they mentioned that they were open plan and were moving to a new building that was entirely open plan. Reader, I declined them. Open plan is the worst possible thing for me, especially since the job would be working with sensitive information (patient health care, fiscal, etc). I know I’m lucky to be able to say no to a job, but I’m really wondering at what point I’ll stop having to turn down cool-sounding jobs just because of their office plan environments. I have no issues with cubicles or shared office spares.

    1. Anxa*

      I think whatever its lifespan, I can’t imagine having my office. That sounds so luxurious and I think I would feel super strange all of the time. As it is I don’t even have a home-base computer and I have to jump around all of the time.

      I don’t know much about commercial real estate, but I can’t imagine that property costs aren’t going to keep rising (short of a huge economic downturn). I know I’d be more productive in a better space that costs more, but I don’t think my productivity is valuable enough to my employers to be worth the increased costs.

      1. jackson's whole what*

        well, I’ve never had my own office. By shared offices, I mean it’s an office (room with a door) that’s shared by 3-4 people.

      2. Manders*

        I’m a little confused by the cost argument because the absolute cheapest option for a company would be allowing remote workers. Very few companies in my area do that, even though there would be huge benefits for them (because they can rent a smaller office), for workers (because commuting from affordable residential areas can be a multi-hour mess), and for the city as a whole (because our transit infrastructure needs billions of dollars of improvements just to keep up with all the commuters).

        1. Jerry Vandesic*

          A former employer of mine calculated that they could double the number of people assigned to a new building if we went with an open floor plan (not one single office in the entire building, even for execs). Doubling the density was achieved via a combination of work from home, people traveling, and denser packing. At $20M per building, the savings were significant. I liked it, but there were others that definitely didn’t. For my team it really improved collaboration with other groups.

      3. KR*

        I could not imagine not having a home base computer – you have to touch the keyboards that have gross not – you germs and you can’t arrange things how you want them and have them stay there! Gross. I’m so sorry. I share my large office with 2 co-workers but they’re often out doing their stuff so for most of the day I have the office to myself.

        1. Anxa*

          Oh, it’s terrible. This is why I think I’m edging into office vigilante in the making. I share all of my resources. So I get really upset when people eat at the computers (not just snacks, but yogurt [gag!], fast food, fried, HOT WINGS), but while I’m technically maybe not officially at work at that moment, I will not just sit in a corner hanging out between work shifts. I will be trying to be productive. I share my space with patrons, though.

          Oh my goodness, I cannot imagine the joy of being able to set your own Word settings and having up-to-date browsers. And being in a reasonably quiet environment.

        2. Ann O.*

          I’m sure I’m biased by being in documentation, but I cannot imagine not being able to configure my computer programs as I need them. That is a huge productivity killer for me. Also, the ergonomic impact of not having my own configured space!

          I love cubes, though. To me, the cube farm is the perfect balance between privacy and collaboration. I think managers need offices for privacy, but the one time I had an office, it was terribly isolating.

          1. Windchime*

            I’ve always just been in cubes and I don’t mind it. There is the occasional person who just yaks all day long, but mostly it’s good. You have your cubicle walls for the illusion of privacy, yet not totally isolated in an office. My current setup is in a room with a giant wall of windows and a view of a pretty city street, and the cubicle walls have glass on one side so the light reaches everyone. It’s really nice.

            When I think “open plan”, I think of the secretarial pool of years past, with a bunch of desks crammed into a room with no dividers at all. Combine that with hot-desking and you’ve just described a nightmare to me.

      4. Nic*

        I’m with you there. I’ve never had an office, and have only had one professional job where I didn’t split a computer with at least one other person. CurrentJob involves monitoring things on a variety of systems, so two people share 10 computers in my “U”. The other two in the room have the same basic person to computer ratio. With the exception of our mugs or water bottles and maybe a phone charger, no one keeps personal items here. There’s nowhere to put them.

        The clorox wipes are a necessity here, as are folders on the network drive so you can access documents regardless of where you are at the moment.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      I don’t know, it only seems to be getting more and more popular.

      And whatever the answer, it can’t be soon enough!

    3. Temperance*

      I seriously hate the open plan office setup. I would decline a job with that setup unless absolutely necessary.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        The problem is, even if they don’t have one now, they may decide to go to one later! 4 years later, and for no good reason, since the cubicles are already in place and there is plenty of unused space in the building even if they wanted to expand, which they aren’t!

    4. enough*

      Unfortunately I don’t think this is going to change any time soon. I believe this is done a lot to save space (money).

      1. Director of Things*

        We are in the process of moving and there are about half as many office spaces as before. As my colleague working on the space plan put it, “Walls cost money.”

        1. jackson's whole what*

          What I’d love to be able to respond to that: “so does staying in business”.

    5. Mustache Cat*

      Please tell me you told them why you declined them- that’s the dream right there!

      Sincerely,
      A reader trapped in the open plan

    6. Manders*

      I turned down a job in part because so much of the interview was spent talking about how they were moving from their perfectly adequate building to a new open-plan office in a trendy (but hard to get to) part of town. And yes, they worked with HIPAA-protected data, but they were going to issue employees laptops and let them all wander the building at random.

      I’m in a trendy tech center, and I’ve noticed a strong correlation between “We’re moving to an open-plan office” and “We talk about being disruptors, but we have no idea what we’re doing.”

      I hope this trend dies–but most of the new office buildings going up around here are designed with open-plan layouts in mind, so I think I’ll be stuck with them for a good chunk of my career.

      1. jackson's whole what*

        Ah, yes, they want to “disrupt” my ability to get anything done and maintain confidentiality at the same time.

    7. Lilo*

      I feel like I have explicitly read that open office plans decrease productivity. I am pretty distractable and the ability to close my door when I need to concentrate on something difficult is essential.

      1. Manders*

        There’s an excellent episode from the Planet Money podcast about the history of open offices and how much employees dislike them. My favorite part: the guy who popularized them had no experience with office design, he was a marketing executive who had a mystic vision on a mountain top. His team HATED their new office, but the move coincided with an era where they produced some famous campaigns, so the idea was picked up by other companies.

        http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/06/03/480625378/episode-704-open-office

        1. Mazzy*

          Interesting. I’m getting tired of being a
          B and having to shush folks so I can’t concentrate…..because they should be able to chat

    8. NW Mossy*

      Lengthy, simply because converting back is hugely expensive, both in the transition costs but also that it will likely require increased square footage for the same staff in closed plan. My office is going about 90% open right now, and I expect no significant changes to our facilities again until after I’m old enough to retire (about 30 years).

    9. Lily in NYC*

      I think it’s getting MORE popular because it saves money. My entire office has slowly converted to a bullpen environment over the last few years. I thought I’d hate it but it’s not that bad. The main issue for me is that I don’t have enough room for all of my paperwork. But I assumed I wouldn’t be able to handle the noise and lack of privacy – and I was very surprised to realize that it wasn’t nearly as awful as I expected.

    10. Clever Name*

      My company is moving to a new building, and I’m trying desperately to find out what the new set up will be. I do know for sure that it will NOT be open plan, thank heavens. The owner specifically mentioned that she hates open plan offices. But I’d like to know if it will be cubicles or shared offices (like we have now) and how many people will be in each office. Right now, most people are 3 to an office, which I think is too many if you have people who are always in their office and who also make business phone calls. I’m currently sharing an office with one person who is mostly in the field now that it’s the growing season, and it’s heavenly.

      1. Clever Name*

        One of our principals, who is a bit of a smartass (and I say that affectionately), walked by when a couple of us were discussing it, and he joked that it was going to be open plan and everyone would have to check out a laptop at the start of each day. And there would be 5 fewer laptops than employees, so you snooze you lose. And also five fewer chairs.

      2. copy run start*

        I’d actually take open plan over a tiny, claustrophobic cubicle. Some of the ones my company has arranged lately are so small you can’t even push the chair back from the desk to stand up without turning towards the entrance. When they’re that tiny the walls are just a placebo anyway, I think.

        1. Nic*

          To an extent, the walls totally are placebo. They do provide a *smidge* of privacy in my experience. I haven’t worked in cubes that small, but I’ve worked in a place that had desk rows where there were 5 people on a side with about three feet total per person and about 8 feet between desks, so you had to be careful backing your chair up.

          They later changed to basically the same system, but with a halfwall between each of the 5 people per side, and between sides of the desk. Even though there were technically a few inches less space per person it didn’t feel quite as bad as it had.

          Either way, NOT enough room.

    11. Wheezy Weasel*

      I’d ask what metrics they are using to determine the success or failure of the open office plan…and ’employee satisfaction surveys’ are not a good enough answer for me. If they can point to things like ‘time to close a sale decreased 10%, and we think it’s due to the ability for people to huddle on a call more easily, and here’s why we think so’ that is better. Even better if they can point to specific employe metrics saying that individual offices actually hurt productivity and their productivity metics are now increased.

    12. Bostonian*

      My company’s overseas location has taken it one step further and nobody even has assigned desks or offices, so that you can’t “get stuck in a routine.” There are several open, “collaboration” spaces to choose from, and from the picture it looked basically like round restaurant booths that seat about 5. In addition, only a few select meeting rooms can be booked in advance. As far as I’m concerned, that sounds like a logistical nightmare!

      There are a few individual desks in this set up, so I imagine it’s going to turn into whoever gets there earliest will take those first. There’s just… so many good logistical reasons to have assigned work spaces!

      1. Starbuck*

        What do they have against routines?? That is baffling! Even in a creative job, there are usually lots of recurring tasks to keep track of, and for me (and most humans I think) routines are key for keeping that stuff organized and allowing for more efficient use of brainpower. Ugh!

      2. Bea W*

        This is exactly what my company is doing with its new space. You get a locker and a rolling caddy. Dreading it.

    13. Casuan*

      “Open-plan office” is an oxymoron to me.

      I wouldn’t be able to get used to it because at my age my work style is pretty much set. The lack of privacy would drive me bonkers. I wouldn’t be able to focus with all of the activity in my peripheral vision. Even though I know most people would be too busy with their own work to pay attention to me, I don’t want to be that exposed.

      Cubicles & offices with 2 or 3 desks are okay. Open-plans… no. Just no.
      Unless I really needed the job I’d probably opt out & if my current employer were to convert I’d make a hell of a case as to how the long-term lost productivity negates the on-paper cost-savings.

    14. JulieBulie*

      The good news is, open plan can’t possibly last forever.

      The bad news is, the next fad will be bunk desks.

    15. Quinalla*

      Open plans are very cost effective, but I hate them too. We have an open plan, but we do have designated desks and really low cubical walls, you can still see everyone while sitting, but you don’t feel quite so exposed. While I don’t think they are going away, I have seen the trend now to include more quiet spaces for private phone calls/conversations, huddle rooms, etc. I still think more needs to be done. As an introvert, I have a hard time in the open plan if there is a lot of noise from people talking to each other or on the phone. When it is quiet (which it is a lot because most of my coworkers lean introvert), I can get in my zone pretty easily, but on loud days it sucks. I also have to really force myself to make phone calls because I know half my office can hear every word. And these are work related calls, but I still feel very in the spotlight.

      I actually work in designing buildings and it is amusing to me sometimes what owners end up installing to make an open plan work. A lot of white/pink noise generating devices, sound absorption, etc.

      And wow, I didn’t realize even HIPPA type jobs were dealing with open offices! We are mostly open office, but we still have a few private spots for sensitive conversations and people like HR have a private office with a door that shuts.

    16. Job Hunt Blues*

      I have noticed that open floor plan jobs tend to come with higher salaries than ones where you get your own office or cube. At least at some companies, the savings are passed along to the workers.

      I think the downsides of open floor plans will become more well known as time goes on, but returning to cubes or offices won’t be the solution. I think, instead, workers will be given more flexibility to work from home, or from different parts of the office (quiet rooms and social rooms). That’s already happening at a lot of open floor plan companies.

    17. Chaordic One*

      It really depends on the job. Supposedly open offices help with collaboration and team work.

      At my last job I had a heavy workload and the work required a lot of intense concentration. There was really not that much need or opportunity for collaboration and working there was a nightmare of distractions and interruptions and it evolved into being an atmosphere that was quite stressful.

      I sort of think that cool-sounding jobs that require their employees to work in open-offices aren’t really that cool. The companies are just cheap.

      1. Chaordic One*

        Also, being a bit introverted, working in an open office just makes things a lot worse. It seemed like I never had time or the space to hear myself think.

    18. Pat Benetardis*

      I’m in an open plan environment and think it’s fine, I kind of like it. I sit with my cross-functional project team instead of my department and we are able to communicate in real time. The office has a lot of Windows and they use white noise (I had a prior job in open plan where the noise was unbearable). I wish there were more huddle rooms, though. Everyone sits in the same set-up, including top executives. In my last company, I had a private office with a door and I liked that too, of course, but going to this open plan was not a big deal.

    19. N Twello*

      A lot of offices have long tables that people choose space at every day (they take their laptops home at night). There is no drawer, no private space, no keyboard tray, no ergonomic chair.

      I’m too old and too short to be able to work without a keyboard tray, adjustable chair, separate keyboard, separate monitor, and docking station. I also like to keep a few things at my desk, like a desk fan and some printouts of info I need to refer to frequently that I pin on my cube wall.

      I would not accept a job that didn’t provide those necessities.

      1. Jessica*

        I have my own office, but I work in a 19th-century building. I’m always amused/amazed by the stories of my much higher-paid friends who have to work in open-plan cube farms.
        I actually think open-plan is inherently discriminatory. I’ve known many people with various sorts of issues–maybe bad back and I need my just-right chair and ergonomic everything not to be in agony, or accessibility adjustments to the computer, or I’m painfully sensitive to certain lighting, or I’m hard of hearing and can’t hear my phone calls with background din, or for a physical reason I’m chronically hotter/colder than other people, or all sorts of other things. There are lots of folks who, if given even a tiny private office that they could configure to meet their needs, could be highly productive, highly successful workers. But in open plan, the physical/logistical issues hold them back. We’re just not identical robo-units.

  25. Almond Joy*

    Just a little venting and question. I was laid off on Tuesday – my job was eliminated. Not a surprise as my boss quit and they decided to close the department – again not a surprise. I am still a little upset even though I keep trying to think about it logically.

    On the positive side, I have been applying for jobs and already received a few callbacks.

    Question: my now old company said it was okay for me to say I am still employed during my severance period (4 months) in an effort to “help” me find a job. Is this an okay thing to do? I know the thought is that it is easier to find a job when you have a job but this seems a little deceptive. Thoughts??

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      If the company said it’s okay and they are going to verify a reference indicating those dates for your employment, then I think it’s fine to do it.

        1. Lily in NYC*

          Ha, it took me a minute to get this! And Almond Joy – definitely take advantage of their offer. I hope you find something great very soon.

    2. KR*

      I thought you worked at my company until I read about your boss quitting – talk about a mini heart attack on my part. I’m so sorry your job was eliminated. I would recommend reaching out to your boss if you think they would give you a good reference and finding out what your reference would be and who would give it from the company ( will they say your performance was good and your job was eliminated? Or just be mysterious and possibly hurt your chances?). Good luck.

    3. CAA*

      If they’re paying you through their normal payroll, then you are still actually an employee, even though you don’t have to come to the office any more. So yes, you can say you’re employed there. In this case, your actual end date will be the date your severance ends and that’s the date that the employer will give in future employment verification checks, so make sure to use that date on your resume and any credit applications rather than the last day you worked.

      If they gave you a lump sum of four months’ salary in advance, then you should ask them what date to use as your formal end date. If it’s in the past, then it’s up to you whether to say you’re still employed there for 4 months or not. I personally don’t think it makes that much difference for a short period like this.

    4. Natalie*

      For what it’s worth, I’d also file for unemployment now, even though you’re getting severance payments. You’ll just report the severance to them and they will delay any benefit payments until after the severage. But just in case, you don’t want to be caught out in 4 months with no severance and outside of the filing period.

    5. Belle*

      Yeah, I don’t think it is deceptive if they company is telling you to say it (and maybe according to your agreement you are still an employee? Such as if you are getting paid on the same schedule and benefits…)

    6. Casuan*

      I’m against saying you’re still employed there unless you have pay-cheques that back this up.
      Not because it’s deceptive. Rather because you can’t know with certainty to whom in the company a potential employer will talk & what that person will say. Your boss quit, the department was eliminated & you were laid off. Even if there’s a note in your file that says “Say this if asked,” that’s no guarantee someone will read it or unquestionly accept what it says.

      Avoid the question of deception altogether. Even if ProspectiveEmployer learns your company suggested this to you, it will still appear to be deceptive. And if ProspectiveEmployer doesn’t talk with someone who is in the know, it will ruin past & future opportunities with that company.

    7. Piano Girl*

      Is this company-specific? I was laid off in March with six months severance. Should I therefore say that I was employed through September? Or should I verify that with the corporate HR person? I am currently taking a break from working due to some health problems but plan on updating my resume, LinkedIn, etc soon.

      1. HR Pro*

        Piano Girl, verify with your HR person. Generally when someone is being paid severance they are not considered an employee. But sometimes companies make deals with employees (ex-employees) about being able to say you’re still an employee.

  26. Amy the Rev*

    Job search has been such a rollercoaster lately! In early Feb I applied to 2 openings in my area, one (1) scheduled an interview quickly and the other (2) sent an email saying they were enthusiastic abt my profile and would reach out soon to schedule an interview with me.

    I have interview with Church 1 early March, it went fine, and then radio silence for a month. Church 2 never reaches out, a friend of mine who also got the same form response had her interview and had scheduled a second one, and I email them to see if they have any updates to their timeline for scheduling interviews (3 weeks had passed since the date by when they said to expect to hear from them) and also get radio silence from them. I also reach out to Church 1 early April and ask if they have any updates, and they say that they do not, and are still finishing up 1st round interviews and haven’t moved forward with a candidate. Church 2 finally gets in touch mid April and basically says that they’re looking at other candidates (but don’t outright reject me).

    So I’m bummed.

    But then Church 1 emails me late April and says they haven’t moved forward with anyone yet, and am I still available? And then Church 2 emails me late April and asks to schedule an interview, which goes really well, and they schedule a 2nd round interview (which happened yesterday and went really well). And then Church 1 calls this past Weds to say they haven’t found a candidate they like yet and the minister would like to bring me in for another conversation ASAP (scheduled for tomorrow).

    It’s just been such a roller coaster and Church 1 has made it very clear that I wasn’t their first choice, but I’m still glad that they never outright rejected me and are still considering my candidacy. I don’t know how things will proceed because it’s felt so hot and cold, but while I’m excited to be moving forward in the application process with both, I’m also exhausted and feeling a little ‘jerked around’ by them both.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      You’re obviously not an Episcopalian. Searches are designed to last 12-18 months, and no Bishop would even allow you to make an offer in less than a year. (And I was at a church where they had 3 top candidates, but the Bishop rejected 1 and the other declined to be a top candidate, so the Bishop made them START OVER) So it could be worse! :)

      Good Luck that you find the place you’re supposed to be!

    2. Casuan*

      Amy, I’m sorry for the frustrations & it’s understandable that you feel jerked around. Just remember that for many different reasons, many church bureaucracies can be a bit sluggish.
      The timing you describe coincides with Lent & Easter; the Lenten season is often quite busy for Christian churches & things tend to slow down a bit during that time.

      Churches aren’t just looking for someone to fill a job, they’re also looking for someone with certain traits who can relate to their congregation. Most churches aren’t going to settle on a candidate. It’s a good thing that Church 1 wants to talk with you again.

      if this is presumptuous, I apologise… If you’re feeling jerked around or otherwise conflicted, remember to be still & listen. Do you feel called to one church over the other?

      I hope your conversation tomorrow goes well!!
      Please update if you’re up to sharing. :)

  27. Giving up*

    I need the collective juju of the AAM community today!
    Have my year-end review (okay, 16 month review) this afternoon and right now I’m exhausted, snarky (hell, bitchy), not feeling well, and overly exhausted. Been trying not to stress over it for the past month but terrified I am going to mouth off or walkout during it. Since I can’t afford to leave this job, no matter how crappy it is, I need help to keep my tongue in check. I have no idea what boss will say. We had to do those stupid 6 page self-evaluations prior to the review, complete with our job satisfaction rating & our goals & hopes for the future. I’ve worked in this industry for 35 years; just tell me how you think I’m doing, give me the damn raise I deserve (I asked for a big one but if I’m lucky maybe I’l get a 2% COL (maybe).
    Yes, I need a new job, yes I have been looking, yes this was only supposed to be a temporary thing because I ran out of unemployment (couldn’t get an extension because the state says ‘we are in a period of recovery & you should have already gotten a job by now) and most my savings.
    My self-esteem has been so battered the past 3 years and I really have nothing left.

    1. Susan the BA*

      It sounds like you’ve survived a lot of crap over the past three years, so you are definitely strong enough to survive an hour (or whatever) of review. Just keep telling yourself that you are a survivor, focus on your breathing, say “hmmm” to everything Boss says to buy yourself time to calm down before responding. You’ve got this!

    2. Jules*

      Remember to take a deep breath before you say anything in the review. Maybe a slow walk outside during lunch? Remember there’s a certain amount of formula to this (ie, 3 good things and a bad), and that the bosses are as stuck with that as you are. A good manager will do the formula because they think it’s the right thing for you, and demonstrates they care about the job you are doing. Remember if they come back with x% raise, you can still ask a reasonable manager for x+2% and see if they’ll bite.

      Also keep in mind that the economy is improving, unemployment is low, and this is a good time to be job hunting. Trump’s plans suck for individuals, but businesses seem to be eating it right up, and *finally* spending some of that cash they’ve been hoarding the last five years.

      With 35 years of industry experience, you can’t help but be a good employee for someone. *Someone* out there needs your perspective. You might have to learn some new ways to apply it, but perspective and experience do actually matter.

      Good luck!!!

    3. Wheezy Weasel*

      In that 35 years of working, has anything from a year end review every affected your new job? (Mine haven’t in 15 years). If you are getting something new, this is just another rock in the path for the current job. It might be helpful to write some notes during the review, gather the paper copies and review them several days later to see how you can either avoid any of these rocks in a new job, but not worry too much about what they mean to the current one.

    4. Giving up*

      well, we only made it about 1/2 way before I could take it no longer. I am not a touchy feely extrovert like boss is and could not take being told how bad I am and negative I am and that I’m not managerial enough (ha! I’ve been the manager of 5019 people in each of my last 3 jobs and never had any complaints) but apparently I don’t step up enough.
      She had me very upset because while apparently the other staff thinks I’m demeaning to them and disrespectful (I’m NOT), it’s perfectly okay that they disrespect me and slight me becasue it’s “unintentional”. I left the review terribly upset – she offered me a break to collect myself, I said let’s just finish this, she insisted so I walked out. While she knows I have returned to the office, we have yet to pick up again.

      In a show of her disrespect for me, despite my having sent her a detailed self evaluation over a week ago that I devoted a LOT of time, effort, and angst on, she had not read it prior to our sitting down together.

      Yep. Need something new. And soon!

      1. Analysis Paralysis*

        Oh my. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

        I feel your pain. I once had a boss that had it out for me (no I’m not paranoid!). On my review I was given “does not meet” for Teamwork because ‘other team members had to finish a data verification’ — she failed to mention that 4 hours before the verification was due, SHE offered to give it to another team member so that I could focus on an unrelated software outage (I was the only SME on the software). So, yah, it’s technically true that someone else did a piddling 15 minute task originally assigned to me while I *rockstarred* that software outage (and would’ve had plenty of time to do the verification too). This was just one of four “does not meet” ratings that I received on that review — all similarly bogus. I’m usually a proponent of accepting feedback graciously and with intent to improve myself, but I fought that review tooth-and-nail. In the end, she pulled in HR and I produced supporting documentation — based on my documentation HR made her change the ratings to “meets” but they allowed her remarks and my rebuttals to stay in the review. It was the beginning of the end.

        I hate to hear of anyone else going through something similar to what I went through. My advice: document everything you’re asked to do / told that someone else will do / conflicting instructions, etc. Practice good self care. Keep applying for other jobs. Repeat to yourself “this job is a paycheck that pays my bills; it does not define me nor determine my worth”. ~~sending you virtual hugs, if you want ’em~~

        1. giving up*

          thanks – can always use hugs.
          we have not yet resumed the rewiew and I have no desire to do so; unfortunately, I dont’ think I can get a raise at all unless we do.
          Interesting that 2 or 3 of the things she bashed me for were on behalf of other staff, staff who had no idea what she was talking about…

          We have no HR that I can take this to.

    5. N Twello*

      Your story really hits home with me.
      Nearly three years ago my boss was demoted and a new guy was brought in. Right out of the gate he started abusing me. I wrote down everything and compiled quotes, dates, witnesses, supporting emails, etc and went to the CEO. That improved the most egregious behavior but the nastiness continued. The hardest to take were the claims (as you describe in your update) of other people complaining about me – which I don’t believe, and yet they create doubt.
      I developed a painful and debilitating stress-related ailment that took nearly a year to fix. I have always loved my work and have been, if anything, a workaholic, but I started hating my work and slacking off. I didn’t have any luck finding another job, so I realized I had to develop a more zen-like approach to work.
      I no longer have normal expectations about things like performance evaluations; I just try to develop an attitude that will cause me the least stress when the horrible happens. I avoid my boss as much as possible and try to always be cool and professional when I do have to deal with him.
      I’m not perfect; about a year ago I snapped under terrible treatment, but most of the time I’m now able to cope without internalizing the humiliation and doing damage to myself. I learned to survive without managerial support, a decent computer, invitations to meetings I should be at, a budget, training or conferences. I just decided to accept all that and get on with my job. I evaluate my own work and check with my stakeholders to make sure they’re happy with my performance.
      As for writing down dates, quotes, etc of his treatment of me, I had to give that up as it was causing me to become too stressed.

      1. giving up*

        yes, that is part of my problem too… I had been keeping track of all the extra hours I had been working but found it just spiraled me into depression.
        And I got the “everyone works long hours here” comment from boss so she didn’t care what I was working.
        wondering if my increased pain levels are from the stress too.

  28. #ITlife*

    Tomorrow will be the sixth Saturday in a row of mandatory, on-site work for my project team. With a likelihood of two more after that. It is what it is, and this job is otherwise amazing (nothing like this has ever happened before), but it sucks a lot. I don’t need any advice, just complaining. :)

    1. Blue Anne*

      I totally sympathize. Accountant who just finished tax season over here.

      It will feel so good when you get back to full weekends, right? :)

  29. AP*

    I’ve been applying to the US Foreign Service and will be subject to a background investigation soon. I didn’t realize I’d gotten as far as I did when I accepted my current job in August (received the invitation to the oral assessment in September, and passed the assessment in January with a pretty good score).

    The problem is, I haven’t been with my employer for a year and an investigator will come at some point to verify my employment and do a security interview. I haven’t talked with my employer about this yet, and am not sure how to approach the situation. I had started applying last June and didn’t realize that I was going to do so well as things moved along. I like my current employer, but I would also love to be a part of the Foreign Service because of the work they do.

    I’m looking for advice on how, at some point, to approach this conversation with my employer. I’m leaning to, “I applied last June, and accepted this position before I knew that Foreign Service was really an option. Given the current hiring environment and how long this process is, I can’t provide any timelines but it’s still not a guaranteed thing. But I will give you as much notice as I can and work with you, and have been very happy here. The Foreign Service is an opportunity I really don’t think I can pass up, however.”

    Thoughts? Thanks everyone!

    1. TCO*

      I think your wording is great, but I might emphasize even more strongly that you might not receive a job offer, and if you don’t, then you’ll be very happy continuing to work at your current employer. I think most people understand the need to take that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and I hope they’ll be happy for you, not upset, should your opportunity come.

      Good luck!

      2. Lucy Richardson*

        Yes – I’d say something like, “It’s still a long shot I’ll make it all the way through the process, but how exciting I’ve made it this far. So, the current step requires them to contact you to verify X.”

    2. Lefty*

      TCO is right-on about this… maybe even add that federal employment offers can often be very delayed and that IF you receive one, you’ll also do everything you can to assist with the transition.

      Could I pry a bit into your experience with the exams? I’ve taken and passed 3 times without getting past the PNQs… I know folks who were hired after passing once or even failing a few times, then passing. What was your experience, AP? Thanks!

      1. AP*

        I’d love to chat with you more on this, but I’m not sure of a good way to exchange contact information.

        In general terms though, I passed everything the first time around. I really don’t know what I did different than many other people.

        For the written assessment, I read a variety of news sources and am aware of a variety of current events. I’m not sure how useful talking about that would be though, especially since it sounds like that wasn’t a stumbling block for you.

        For the PNQs, I really made sure to stick to the prompts and answer the questions as succinctly as possible. I have ~8 years of professional to draw on, but I also used a few experiences outside of work on the PNQs. I was trying to show I’m more than a corporate work-bot, and edited them pretty heavily. I approached it like telling a story – show don’t tell, use as few words as possible, make it easy to read. I also put the ‘so here’s why you care’ right up front so it’s easy to see where I’m going, instead of inferring it from later on.

        I had a couple people read over what I wrote to make sure I wasn’t overselling anything, that it was easy to read, and that I was addressing the prompt directly.

        I don’t really have huge insights though, since the PNQ process seems pretty opaque. From what the diplomat in residence has told me, the PNQs are where there is a quota, and you might have just missed the cutoff. It’s hard to say.

        I practiced for the oral assessment a lot in person. Living in DC made it easy because there are always study groups going on. Skype helps for a bunch of it, or mailing around practice case management documents that people can mark up.

        If there’s some way to exchange contact info, I’d be more than happy to email back and forth for any more specific questions you have.

    3. AP*

      Thanks for the responses everyone–

      Yes, I forgot that I need to stress that everything is still very much in the air. I work in DC for a federal contractor, so they’re aware of the current political environment and how that affects budgets and hiring. I think my boss will take things well, since she’s encouraged others who’ve started their own shops or transitioned to other places in the federal government. The process has been so long, thankfully, that it makes the inevitable conversation easier and easier as things drag out!

  30. Jessesgirl72*

    Amazing news this week! As I’ve mentioned before, we’re having a baby via surrogate in the Ukraine at the end of July. My husband got permission from his boss to work remotely while we’re kicking our heels waiting for the baby to be born, but it takes about 3 weeks after the birth to get the passport and be able to come home, and he was going to have to use all his vacation hours for that- and if anything got delayed, go to FMLA. And he HAS to be there, since the baby only shares his DNA, and the US State Department requires a DNA test before issuing the passport.

    On Monday, his company sent out a Memo that they now are offering 4 paid weeks of Parental Leave, and specifically have said it’s in addition to the FMLA, not just a paid part of it! He just has to apply for it 30 days in advance, and it doesn’t kick in until the baby is born.

    Then the strange part- I suggested that he apply for FMLA anyway, just in case, so the paperwork is all in and ready. He has no way to directly contact HR! He has to go through his boss or an Ombudsman, even for something this simple. He mentioned this to the head of HR when he was in a meeting with her, and she said something like oh yeah, they really should make a way for people to contact HR directly, and that was at least 2 years ago! That’s not normal, right?

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        The paid leave good news for everyone planning a family! The timing of it is just particularly fortunate for us! They have above-average benefits and actually believe in work-life balance, instead of just giving lip service to it.

        But this wouldn’t be the first time the internal structure has us scratching our heads!

    2. Lily in NYC*

      That is a ridiculous rule – and it’s overly protective of managers. How is someone supposed to report a manager if they need to? But congrats on your new baby, how exciting!

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        I asked him that- you report problems with your boss to the Ombudsman.

        My working experience is with one of the Big Three Automakers, where things are structured differently because of the Union (even for non-union/management, because everyone has to be the treated the same) or tiny little businesses with no HR, but that seemed really strange to me, and I wanted to make sure I wasn’t just ignorant and this is how it is all the time. He’s at a Fortune 500!

  31. deets*

    Boss recently announced that instead of having our spring training/teambuilding trip at a hotel, we are having it at his family’s vacation home. This is a three-day, two-night trip. Apparently we’ll each have our own bedroom but will share bathrooms, and of course the rest of the living space. I feel super awkward about this – I’m on good terms with all my coworkers but that doesn’t mean I want to be with them 24/7, and it being my boss’s property instead of an airbnb or something is an extra level of weird. Does anyone have advice for surviving this? Commiseration is also accepted.

    Note: we all verified the dates worked before being told the venue, so I can’t invent an obligation to get out of it, and my boss is not the type to accept “I feel uncomfortable staying at your home” well. Really the moral of this story is I need to stop working for a small business, I think.

    1. k*

      Can you come down with a sudden bout of food poisoning? You babysitter/dog sitter/plant sitter cancels on you at the last minute?

      If you truly can’t get out of it, I’m very sorry. That sounds like it’s going to be a long three days.

    2. Mazzy*

      Are you sure it will be horrible? My childhood friends parents were ridiculously rich they had ten bedrooms and maybe eight bathrooms and a rec room and library going there was awesome and relaxing and an escape from the real world

    3. Lefty*

      Since it sounds like you may not be able cancel without serious issue, can you mitigate it a little? Maybe bring your own vehicle with the intent of “doing some exploring” in the evenings… since it’s a vacation home, maybe your family has “asked you to do recon” on the area for parks or walking trails. Obviously, this would be a little ruse to get you some time alone/away from the house.

      (Bonus points if there’s some really obscure thing you can go “look for” that most of your coworkers would want to avoid. I was once asked to scout potentially historic gravesites by a family friend during a trip for work… it was such an odd quest that my colleagues did NOT want to join.

    4. PatPat*

      Awkward! Oooh, I’m sorry! Sharing a bathroom with a coworker is not something most people want to do so I feel your pain. And the thought of being around coworkers 24/7 soinds so horrible

      Do you think you have any recourse to push back? Do you have any legit health issues that you could bring up (without going into detail) that would make those close living quarters unworkable? Something like frequent insomnia or something?

    5. Serious Sam*

      The obvious tactic here is to make sure it NEVER happens again. Start with coffee stains on the light coloured carpets, crack a window or mirror. Move on to deep scratches in the polished wood floor or table. Loose as much cutlery as you can, break a glass or two.

      Everything should just be on the limit of accidental or normal wear and tear. The owner is probably not your boss but a relative of his from the way you describe it, so the ideal amount of damage will be the level that the owner will notice only after you have all left. The owner will then make sure the boss never has that idea again. Anything toilet related will just annoy the cleaners and the owners will probably never hear about it, so don’t do that.

    6. Casuan*

      Ugh. I love Serious Sam’s tactic tho I’d probably go with the others mentioned instead.

      You already agreed to the hotel, so you should feel free to use the house as a hotel, by which I mean you shouldn’t be expected or guilted into spending free time with your colleagues. Lefty’s suggestions on mitigating things are good.

      Are your other colleagues into this idea? If not, could the group convey that they’re not comfortable with the idea of going to your boss’ house?

      Insurance-wise your boss isn’t being too wise. And some part of me wonders if Boss is saving money or making a conflict-of-interest by billing the company instead of paying for a hotel.
      I’m going to assume that he isn’t & I’m surprised that I even thought of the possibility.

      If you must go, enjoy it as much as you can & use the experience to learn more about your colleagues. :)

    7. ..Kat..*

      Since it is only two nights, can you console yourself by reading the posts about sharing hotel rooms and even beds?

      Still sucks, I know.

    8. Bluebell*

      Many years ago I had to do this but fortunately it was only an overnight. Boss’s cabin had 3 bedrooms one bath. Boss had her own bedroom and fortunately my female colleague and I were friends outside of work. She did encourage us to use the kayak or spend time alone in the morning, which was nice. It wasn’t bad but still ranks in my list of weird work outings.

    9. This Daydreamer*

      Is there space outside that you can retreat to? Take a book with you for a reading break on the deck or patio or maybe a garden bench. Just getting out of the house and away from everyone else for a little while can make a huge difference.

  32. k*

    I always hear than when talking about salary for a prospective job you can ask about benefits as well. How specific can you get though? And when does that conversation happen (do you wait until they make an offer? Or the first time salary is mentioned?)

    In my previous job hunts I’ve never asked about benefits because I was either unemployed and would take anything, or getting such a raise in pay that I didn’t think to ask about the details. Now I’m looking for a more lateral move and the positions I’m applying to will likely have similar pay to what I make now. It’s one thing to know that they offer health insurance, but is it normal to ask how much per paycheck the employee pays? Or what it covers? Because without a raise in salary that could make a big difference in take home pay, etc. This is one of those things I’ve never dealt with before, so I’m having a hard time picturing how that conversation would go.

    1. Anonymous Poster*

      I’ve had companies give me that information in a giant packet when I go for an in-person interview. I’ve also had it outlined when they make an offer.

      If they don’t furnish it on their own, I’d suggest asking once they make an offer. Most places will have a packet of all that information they can send your way.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        At his last job, but husband got it as a giant PDF of the packet just ahead of the final “fly out” interview.

    2. all aboard the anon train*

      I always ask at the offer stage. In previous jobs, when I was told the salary range, I asked to see a copy of the employee benefits, including the healthcare coverage. Just outright ask. If they say no, then that’s a red flag imo.

      My current job’s salary is nice, but lower than I’d like, but my healthcare is pretty great (I get $2500 for dental procedures per year which is almost unheard of, and I rarely have to pay anything out of pocket for medical coverage, even expensive procedures). So it’s about an extra $20K per year. Plus, they paid for most of my MA instead of the $5K yearly stipend most other places gave.

    3. CAA*

      For that level of detail, either ask an HR person, or ask if you could get a copy of the benefits information that includes the costs. If you get to the offer stage and still don’t have the info, it’s perfectly fine to say you’d like more details on the benefit costs in order to make a decision.

      I am a hiring manager, and I’ve always made a point of outlining the benefits we offer in the first in-person interview, but sometimes people want to go into more detail than I have at my fingertips. I don’t know how much a single person has to pay on PPO plan A because I am paying for a family on HMO plan B. Some people have even asked about reimbursement for specific dental procedures. Candidates do have an opportunity to meet with HR before an offer, and we always send benefit enrollment info as part of the offer packet, so all I can do with those kinds of questions is refer them to a better source.

  33. ZSD*

    In case people missed it, the Working Families Flexibility Act (the comp time bill that was hotly debated here earlier) did indeed pass the House this week. I’m not sure if the Senate will take it up.

  34. Myrin*

    I had an interesting experience in an interview last month:

    I had to send a writing sample beforehand; I’m in a “language and literature” field, so the majority of it is about reading and writing. And my interviewer said “Your writing sample was amazing, you have such a good way with words and your style is great – why on earth do you want to do this job??”. “This job” being basically data collection and entry (which I knew beforehand, this didn’t come as a surprise or anything). And my answer was that I really… don’t like writing… all that much? Like, I know that I’m really good at it but it’s just not my thing in a way. I actually much prefer manual labour or at least stuff where I can “do” something. And I’ll honestly admit that I don’t really like thinking all that much? Gosh, that sounds horrible, but basically I can never understand when people say “I’m not intellectually challenged” or similar because I could happily go my whole life without ever having to do mental work, or maybe rather theoretical work.

    Anyway, that’s just for background. The real question I wanted to ask for this open thread is: Do you guys have something like this (work-wise, of course)? Something you’re good at, maybe even extraordinarily good, but just Do. Not. Like?

    1. JanetM*

      Scheduling. Both meetings (which actually aren’t so bad unless they involve a lot of administrators) and front desk coverage.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        I don’t mind easy scheduling, but of course most of what I have to do is painfully complicated (like trying to get 6 CEOs with insane schedules to all meet in a few days). But event planning is what I truly hate the most. I’m just not detail-oriented enough.

    2. Effie*

      I’m amazing at customer support and customer service. At a previous job everyone knew if we got an irate customer after working with me they’d leave happy. At more than one previous job I got more thank-you letters and compliments than anyone else in my department (sadly everything went straight to my managers and I rarely saw any of it). I HATE it now. I’ve done it for over 7 years and I’d be happy working with numbers or at least not needing to soothe customers for the rest of my life. Also in my previous positions my coworkers (same title/level) would just pass awful/angry/irate/etc customers off to me instead of taking care of it themselves. Even my managers did it sometimes, and I’d get in trouble for not taking care of it since they knew I could, even when it was above my job grade, even when I had no actual training. Sadly I’m still good at it and I’m about to be moved to a position where I’ll need to deal with clients again…wish me luck!

      1. KR*

        Yes this, I am great at customer service as a former front end supervisor at a grocery store that prides itself on service but I hated it after a while. My current job is not customer facing in the least and I am so happy.

      2. AliceBD*

        I am also great at customer service and hate it. I am the backup for our consumer education person but I’m only supposed to cover for her when she’s out for a significant period — out a couple of days for a cold or taking a long weekend doesn’t count, but having surgery and being out for two weeks (she’s fine) or her annual week-long vacation are fine. One of the people who sends calls to her started sending them to me whenever the main person wasn’t at her desk. The worst was she and I were in a meeting together, and my desk is closer to the conference room we used so I got back to my desk a minute before she did, so a call was sent to me! My boss had to send a stern letter about not bothering me with calls for things like that; it’s actually not at all in my job description but I just have the skills.

    3. Hellanon*

      When my students ask me for resume/job interview help, I always start off by asking them to do a bit of homework first. And that is to answer these four questions (while thinking about things one might actually be doing, not lottery-winning scenarios): 1) What do you like to do? 2) What are you good at? 3) What do you NOT like to do? 4) What are you NOT good at? I always told them it’s important to be honest with themselves, because it would give them a template for deciding if a job would be a good fit. It’s exactly what you are talking about-if you don’t enjoy or can’t do something, and the job has a lot of it, it won’t be a good fit.

    4. Princess Carolyn*

      I kind of feel this way about writing, actually. I’m pretty good at it, but I’m not particularly creative and don’t really enjoy tasks that require me to think creatively. That’s why I tend to prefer editing over writing, though my current gig is very writing-heavy.

      1. hermit crab*

        Me too. Writing is exhausting, and I avoid writing first drafts of things whenever possible! In school, I was always told that I was a good writer, and people assumed that I would be an author or a journalist or something. (I think there was some sexism/gender roles stuff playing in there too — I was also good at math, but of course nobody praised or encouraged that.)

    5. Unlucky Bear*

      Yes. Similar to you, I’m a good writer when I have to be, but I do not enjoy writing on its own. I’m perfectly happy reworking copy other people have written, but when I have to do it, it’s fairly tortuous. I’ve worked as an editor for a decade now, and interviewers have often assumed that my dream job would be something with more writing, but… no. (My dream job would be one where I get paid to sit on the couch all day at home hanging out with my kid, so apparently my professional yearnings will forever go unfulfilled…)

    6. Mary (in PA)*

      Meeting minutes, AKA the bane of my existence. I hate doing them so much and everyone tells me, “Your minutes are so great! They’re so detailed and so helpful!”

    7. CAA*

      I guess I’d have to say data collection and entry. I am organized and have a very good memory. I am great at knowing who still owes me information and following up to get it, and even figuring out how to make it easier for them to give it to me. However, collecting information and updating systems with that information is the most boring thing I could ever think of doing; and I hate to be bored.

      I want to be solving hard problems, brainstorming alternatives with others, and making things work.

    8. Terra Firma*

      The head of HR recently told our CEO (my manager) that I delivered the best PIP she had seen for a struggling worker (who had health issues in addition to performance issues. ) She talked up my documentation and rigor so much that they just moved another tricky hr situation on to my team. I do NOT want to be the team lead who is really good at fixing problem employees and/or being the only one willing to fire them.

    9. Aphrodite*

      For me, it’s writing and scheduling. I am often told I am an amazing writer. I used to write for a living. I was an editor for eight years. Now I don’t want to do either. Writing is hard work; it’s not fun though the product can be enjoyable. (In other words, I liked having written, not writing.)

      Scheduling is another for me. I schedule over 100 classes each term and it’s insanely complicated with multiple databases and constant emails and phone calls. Right now, I am actively working on four different terms, each of which is constantly changing. One is due to start this month, the last is one year away.

      It’s insane and I am always looking at other jobs that open up here to get out. The fact that I am great at it is no excuse to keep me in such insanity.

    10. Jules the First*

      Organising events. It is my superpower. And I hate it. Like, flee to the other end of the galaxy hate it. Because people assume that if you are awesome at organising events, you are awesome at playing host, and I am not. Very not. (If I could organise the snot out of an event and then run it from behind the scenes without ever having to say hello to a guest? Sign me up!)

      1. Relly*

        You should find someone who likes to host but not organize, and form an unstoppable power duo.

        I was MoH in my friend’s wedding, and her mom and I split the bridal shower like that — she organized, I hosted. We both felt like we got the better end of the deal.

    11. TL -*

      Building organizational systems that are functional and easy.
      I do it, cause my memory ain’t great and I hate being not about to find things, but I’ll be really happy when I’m at a level to pass that job off to someone else.

    12. Lady Dedlock*

      Editing. I am an editor. I am great at editing. But it is so mind-numbingly boring for me. I’m trying to get into website work instead.

    13. katamia*

      LOL. I asked a question on a similar topic below. I’m a great editor, but I hate having to sit and stare at the same thing for so long and make a bunch of dinky (but important) changes. It takes me forever because I need to take so many breaks because I can only go maybe 10-20 minutes without going, “Ugh, I can’t look at this thing for another second!” and have to stand up/walk around/play a game of Solitaire.

    14. Elizabeth West*

      Customer service. I’m good at it but I HATE it. I don’t want a public-facing job. I’d rather be in a hidey hole somewhere and not ever have to answer a phone again (unless it’s my phone, for me).

    15. writelhd*

      Alegbra and geometry.

      I work in a field where certain job functions require being able to do accurate surface area calculations of buildings. Often that means figuring out the area of a bunch of different right triangle from knowing the length of two sides and the angle between (or even other more complex shapes), sometimes off of complicated building plans with crazy multiple rooflines and towers and arg it just makes me cringe to think of it. But I majored in physics, so tedious though it is, trigonometry and algebra are a piece of cake for me, partly because I set it all up as a formula with appropriate order of operations in excel and make excel do the actual arithmetic, rather than keeping track of a zillion numbers scrawled out on some scratch paper and added together at various points with a calculator. Then it’s supremely fast to check my own work just by studying the formula I set up and making sure I’ve created it right, rather than trying to do it again and getting a different answer and arg why! let me start over for the fifth time… But yeah, it’s not FUN or anything to do that. However even less fun is now overseeing techs who now do that job and having to check THEIR work…

  35. all aboard the anon train*

    I had a phone interview for a job I applied to at a company I was really interested in. At the end of the call, I was told that the interview process would be the HR screening, a call with the hiring manager, a full day of interviews in the office, potentially a second day, and maybe a project or test.

    That’s a lot of steps for a job interview, in my opinion, so I told the HR rep, “Because this is a lengthy interview process, I’m wondering if you could tell me the salary range for the position. I’m very interested in continuing with the interview process and I’d love to work for X company, but I don’t want to get to the end of the process and find that your salary range isn’t what I’m looking for, and I’m sure you don’t want to deal with that either. That would be disappointing for both of us.”

    The HR person got really cold and awkward and said she couldn’t tell me that information. Research online shows me that current employees in the role I was interviewing for have a large range of salaries, so I wasn’t sure if they paid on the lower or higher end of the scale.

    I received an email later that afternoon that said because I was so interested in salary and not the company or the job, they weren’t continuing with my candidacy. So I’m pretty annoyed about that. I don’t think I was in the wrong to ask, but maybe I was?

    1. Marzipan*

      I genuinely don’t get why they would want to go through a whole process with you if there was any chance of the end result being that you’d be offered the job but walk because salary expectations were mismatched. I think you asked in a completely reasonable way and they’re the ones in the wrong. They’ve come across like you should consider it such an honour to work for them that money is just a fluffy irrelevance, which is just foolishness.

      1. all aboard the anon train*

        I dug a bit deeper after this happened and there’s some older reviews on Glassdoor and some articles from execs and managers at the company saying that they automatically disqualify anyone who only asks about promotions and raises in interviews because they’re focused on “cultural fit”.

        Which, I can maybe understand that point of view if a candidate does only ask about the salary and nothing else about the job/company, but I don’t think asking about salary in addition to asking about other aspects of the company should rule anyone out. Salary is important and it’s ridiculous that in 2017 companies still get prickly about it. Especially when candidates will have to go through a long interview process!

        1. INFJ*

          Yeah, sounds like an overly rigid rule they have that candidates can’t ask about salary or promotions at ALL.

        2. motherofdragons*

          The question is your first paragraph is one I hear a lot at the end of interviews (and think is perfectly legit), and it reminds me of my interview for my current job.

          Except that “cultural fit” doesn’t pay rent. They are ridiculous. You asked a perfectly valid question, in a really polite and professional way to boot.

    2. Annie*

      Sounds to me like you dodged a bullet! When companies are touchy about such normal questions, they’re probably also flawed in many other ways.

    3. Parenthetically*

      Wow, that seems totally out of line on their part. You explained it in a way that sounds extremely fair and reasonable. They’re being ridiculous.

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      You definitely dodged a bullet. It is perfectly reasonable to ask for a salary range before you commit to a lengthy application/interview process. My guess is they pay on the low end of the spectrum and count on people being so invested by the time they find out that they’re willing to accept less money/not push back.

      1. all aboard the anon train*

        Yeah, that’s what I’m guessing as well. It’s a bigger, well-known company in my area that a lot of people want to work for, so I think you’re right that people become so invested that they’re willing to accept whatever they’re offered.

    5. KR*

      I’m assuming you work for money and not purely for personal enjoyment. This attitude is rediculous. I’m glad you dodged this bullet.

    6. Sadsack*

      Wow, that stinks. You didn’t say salary was your only concern, but of course it is a major concern. Makes me wonder how they treat employees, and how much employee’s are paid. I think you are lucky to have got out of that interview process so early on.

    8. PizzaDog*

      You weren’t. Their reaction says a lot about what they might have offered you.

    9. Mephyle*

      Were you wrong? Not at all. It’s very blinkered of them to have this outlook. They think they are eliminating candidates who are ‘only interested in money’ but actually they are setting themselves up to waste a lot of time going through the interview process only to find out that the candidate’s possible acceptable range is outside what they are offering. Of course they don’t care about wasting the candidate’s time and effort, but they ought to care about their own.

    10. writelhd*

      It would be doubly annoying of them if they were also one of the ones who wouldn’t talk to you without knowing your salary history.

      I’m sorry that you had a bad outcome because you did something that a lot of us educated by AAM see as perfectly reasonable and sensible, especially when you phrased it such a sensible way to them.

  36. Annie Moose*

    Current open office pet peeve… how awkward it is to handle a period when you work in an open office with 90% men. (and, I imagine, any other personal health issue in an environment with so little privacy)

    Every month, I’m like, “I just need to own it, it’s not that big a deal, probably no one notices anyway”, and every month I still just feel so self-conscious about digging around in my purse for pads and wandering off to the bathroom with a bright green wrapper. (on principle, I refuse to do the up-the-sleeve trick!)

    One of these days I’m just gonna anonymously buy a giant box and leave it in the women’s bathroom, solve the problem for everyone right there. One of the only things I miss about OldJob was that it had free pads and tampons in the bathroom!

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      The box in the bathroom is a great idea. I put a couple of tampons in the bathroom this month because I bought new pants that don’t have pockets. (gr…) Then I noticed one disappeared. Next time I went in, there were 2 more. So I figured I’m not the only one on my cycle, so I took a handful in, just to be sure there would be one there. The supply dwindled for the rest of the day. No problem. I stock it up the next morning. A coworker come into my office to apologize for stealing my tampons.
      We laugh and I tell her it’s fine. I’ll never begrudge somebody a tampon, a kleenex, or a breath mint. If you need it, you need it. Now there’s a whole stock pile in the bathroom and we’ve just gone communal supply with them.

        1. Master Bean Counter*

          We both use the same very common brand which I buy by the gross at the local warehouse club.

    3. Helen*

      I’m pretty sure the men are not paying attention to your bathroom habits.

      If you don’t want to carry the pad (even though it isn’t a big deal), can you just bring your purse? That is what a lot of women in my office do. I tend to just stick it in my pocket. The bathroom is at the complete other end of my large office, and I often have to stop and have conversations with people on the way.

    4. jackson's whole what*

      I’ve used the “chest pocket” in the past. (ie, shove it in the bra)

      1. k*

        If I’m wearing a shirt that’s not tucked in, or have a cardigan on, I usually go for the “tucked in the waistband” move. Which is really sad because the bathroom is about 5 feet from my office and typically no one would see me. But it’s still ingrained in my brain to hide it.

        1. INFJ*

          Yes! I’m not the only one that does this! For those of us who don’t have pockets and don’t want to lug the purse into the bathroom.

    5. Judy (since 2010)*

      Ask if you can have cubbies or lockers in the bathroom. We had that at a former employer, and just got a set of cubbies here after I asked. I’m beyond the pad/tampon range, but it’s nice that I have my brush and deodorant in the bathroom.

    6. FTW*

      I am a consultant and sit in a room with other people, mostly men, all day long. I just do what I have to do. I honestly don’t think they notice, and if they do, I’ve stopped caring.

    7. Parenthetically*

      Giant box in the ladies’ room for sure. But also: 99% of people aren’t paying a lick of attention to your bathroom habits and the ones who might happen to notice give about as much thought to it as you do to theirs — i.e., basically none.

      I haven’t used disposable feminine products in YEARS so I rarely have to swap something out midday, but there are so many cute cases and bags around that you could just pull out of your purse.

    8. Shiara*

      My purse is usually small enough that I just take into the bathroom with me. And somehow I still feel self-conscious. I actually did (at an previous job) have a (very socially awkward and male) coworker ask me where I was going, and I just deadpanned “The bathroom” and kept going. No one commented when I got back.

      I’m jealous of your OldJob’s free supplies. When I moved to this position I had to raise the issue that the women’s bathroom on this floor didn’t have trash cans in the stalls. They do now.

    9. Tau*

      I hide mine up my sleeve. I know that in theory it shouldn’t be something I need to hide, but I still feel super-awkward about it.

    10. AliceBD*

      One thing I LOVE about my current job is how toiletries are handled. Our bathroom has an extra makeup counter, for lack of a better word. There are a couple of big flat baskets on it, and you can bring a small bag (of the type you get for free with makeup purchases) and leave it there. You can keep whatever you want in it, so people have toothbrushes and toothpaste, lotions, pads and tampons, lip balm, etc in them. And then it is more discreet when you bring it home to refill it.

    11. tw*

      At my old job, someone did bring in a bunch of lotion, dry shampoo, hair bands, and tampons/pads to the women’s bathroom though and it was amazing. She left a note asking to contribute and refill as needed. Everyone did.

      They used to stock Advil, Motrin and other common meds. I asked a girl in the bathroom once for Midol, and she came back with Advil and said I should ask the receptionist about ordering it because all the women in another department wanted it too. I did, the receptionist said the CEO refused to approve it because “they can bring their own”

      1. Parenthetically*

        I love your first paragraph! We used to have lotion and hairspray and tampons/pads in our ladies’ room but it’s gone now, which is sad!

    12. Jillociraptor*

      In Alyssa Mastromonaco’s book about working in the Obama White House (“Who Thought This Was a Good Idea?”), she talks about her crusade to install a tampon dispenser in the women’s restrooms. You might both enjoy the humor of the passage, and feel inspired to demand that your office do similarly!

    13. Merida Ann*

      Why do all the companies insist on bright, neon colors for the wrapping? It would be so much more discrete if they would just use neutral colors – black, brown, white, grey, tan… Far less noticeable when you’re walking down the hall or going through security at the airport or anywhere else that checks purses. Instead, they all are ridiculously bright and call extra attention to themselves. Ugh.

      1. Pat Benetardis*

        Probably to make it easier for you to find in a purse or backpack quickly. This type of thing is focus grouped extensively. I am surprised there isn’t a company targeting discretion.

    14. LCL*

      At one barely-above-minimum-wage job I had, there weren’t any dispensers and the place was a warehouse in the middle of nowhere so running to the store wasn’t an option. So one payday I bought the big box of supplies and left it in the women’s restroom. At the end of the day, the supplies and box were gone. Those office b*#$% took the whole box. There were only 3 women in the office. I never bought supplies for that job again. And yes I was furious; I was trying to share not supply someone’s home.

    15. Jules the First*

      I switched to a mooncup, which can go 12 hours between changes (yes, really…) which means I hardly ever have to change it at work and I never have to carry extra supplies to the bathroom.

      1. writelhd*

        I second the amazingness of the cup. I didn’t go that direction purely for work reasons, more for some of my recreation things like rock climbing where you’ve got to spend all day strapped to a cliff and there’s not always “cover” around… but I too work in a pretty all male space and have contemplated the various “carry” options, sometimes on all-male remote jobsites, sometimes having to go out to jobsites without a lot of prior warning, and the cup’s pretty great for just not having to worry during those kinds of situations, too.

    17. Job Hunt Blues*

      Eh. Just remember most of them have a mother or sister or female significant other or female roommate – some woman who they’ve spent enough time around to get used to what a female body is like. It might be weirder for you than it is for them. They probably have male-specific things that they’re embarassed about around you but you don’t notice. But I also get wanting to be discreet about it. Could you wear something with pockets on those days? A blazer or sweater or pants with pockets?

    18. Nikki B*

      Menstrual cups were the answer for me. A one off purchase for $30, which pays for itself in a few months, and you never have to worry about carrying a spare tampon or pad. Fantastic if you work in the field as well, for the length of time between emptying.

  37. DecorativeCacti*

    Here’s a resume question for you all: I am currently in the most senior position at my job. I worked my way up through the ranks and part of the reason I was able to move up (and quickly) was the fact that I have a lot of computer skills that no one else did/does. So even as a receptionist, I was being asked to do complex Excel projects. How do I show that the projects I worked on were above and beyond what was expected at a lower level? How do I document something like that which is still part of my current position? For example, I became a member of the proofing committee two positions ago but I am still a member.

    1. jackson's whole what*

      I don’t know how your resume is being structured, but would putting dates by the responsibilities/projects work? So, you were Entry Level (2010-2013), but for Project X, you could say (2011-present)?

      1. DecorativeCacti*

        It’s Title (Date – Date). So you think something like the below? I really want to make sure I highlight how unusual it was for me to have some of these extra projects.

        Senior Teapot Specialist (November 2015-present)
        – Served as a highly depended upon member of company’s Proofing Committee, ensuring adherence to company grammatical and stylistic standards (2013 – present)

        Teapot Specialist (May 2013 – November 2015)
        – Accomplishments

        Teapot Associate (March 2010 – May 2013)
        – Accomplishments

        Receptionist (June 2008 – March 2010)
        – Quickly became company-wide resource for Microsoft Excel queries from converting simple numbers to more complex attendance and teapot tracking workbooks

  38. Collie*

    Continuing on from previous weeks…

    I had the interview on Wednesday. Turns out the second person (Sally) who was to call on my behalf was on the interview panel. The hiring manager I hadn’t met before (Jenna) and then one of the new managers in the system who I’ve worked with (Brent; and the first time I worked with him and told him I was looking for something full time in the field, he said he’d do what he could for me which was surprising since we’d only worked together once, but whatever) were also on the panel, so I knew 2/3.

    As I was leaving, Sally started to ask me something, then hesitated, and did it a few times before she said, “Never mind, I’ll ask you later.” So I said, “Are you sure?” kind of indicating if she wanted to ask me whatever now, I was okay with it. And then she asked if I’d be available in my current position in the system during the summer to work at her location. So…maybe she hesitated because she didn’t want to imply I was out of the running for this job (and I couldn’t do both jobs at once — I’d have to quit my current PT on call gig to take the FT thing of course), but I walked away feeling like that sort of had been implied.

    I walked away feeling like it went okay, but not great. I didn’t hit all the highlights I wanted to because I didn’t feel there were openings for them. The one thing I included at the recommendation of the manager who called on my behalf (Carly) turned out to maybe not be a great thing to include, but what’s done is done. I was able to get some of those highlights in the follow up note, so that’s okay. Brent was the only one to respond to the email (which was weird anyway) and he said, “Thanks Collie! Good luck!”

    And then I worked for Brent last night who, the first thing he said to me was, I did great in the interview. He seemed disproportionately impressed, IMO. Then later he asked if I was applying elsewhere and how that was going, but not in the digging-to-find-information sense, just the interest in how-it’s-going-for-me sense (so, it seemed totally innocent and more like he was invested in my success, not that he was looking for additional info for the interview, which they can’t do anyway per the rules).

    I know I shouldn’t be reading into these things, but I just find them all odd combined. If Sally wants me to continue in my current job this summer knowing that I can’t if I get this job, had she already made a decision that I wasn’t going to get the new job? She doesn’t get final say, but she has a lot of weight. If Brent said “Good luck” in the email and then really emphatically said I did great in the interview, does that mean I’m still in the running? But then if he asked about other prospects and said “It’ll happen when it’s supposed to,” does that mean I’m out?

    I’m not looking for real answers to those questions, just mulling. I know it doesn’t do good to read into this stuff, but these things just feel so strong in both directions. So I don’t know.

    Next steps include bringing a single finalist to a “casual conversation” with Jenna and the system manager to make sure the finalist is okay with the system manager, which I’ll probably hear about by early next week. I want this job probably more than any I’ve applied to the last few years but I have low expectations.

    Sigh.

  39. Ama*

    So here’s a nice random work environment question for a Friday — I need a desktop plant stand. We moved into new offices recently, and even though we have nice storage cubbies in our cubicles that are perfect for putting my small plant on top of, TPTB have decided that no one is allowed to set things up there. I suspect it’s because they don’t want to have to make distinctions between people who put plants/decorative items up there and people who would just pile stacks of files on top but it’s still annoying as I sit furthest from the windows and now the only place to put my plant that will get sufficient light is on the corner of my desk closest to the walkway where 1)I keep my inbox and 2) there is no way clutzy me isn’t going to knock it over at some point.

    And yes, I have already mentioned my concerns to my boss and the only compromise we have reached is that I think I can get my employer to cover the cost of the stand (as long as it’s reasonable) .

    So… I would really like a stand that sits up high enough that it can sit over my inbox, which means that it needs to be about 8 inches off the desk but also have its support posts configured in such a way that I can slide the files under it. I’ve looked at some clear plastic risers but nothing is quite wide enough.

    Any ideas?

    2. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      This is a bit more labor intensive, but my coworker built one by from stuff at a craft store or possibly home improvement store. Just a plain board, and then bought legs that could screw into it. I don’t think hers sits as high though, so the legs might present a challenge.

    3. Beachlover*

      Not really a solution. Just my experience. but we moved into a new building 3 years ago. We had the same restrictions, nothing on top of the shelves above your cubicle. However, we don’t have much room for files and other things, so at this point, people have plants, files, decorative items etc on the shelves. I keep waiting for the dreaded email from our facilities manager reiterating the “rule”.
      I can suggest looking at a office supply catalog. There are quite a desk top organizers that may work for you.

      1. Ama*

        Yeah, I keep hoping after a while things will relax but our cubicles are bigger here both in desk surface and storage space so for the time being “I don’t have room” or even “but that’s where I kept it in the old office” isn’t going to fly.

        Thanks everyone for the suggestions!

    4. Sadsack*

      I have a riser that is a metal mesh shelf that I used to keep plants on. It is 6.5″ high, 7″ wide, and about 2′ long. The legs are at the ends, so I could fit files underneath. I think maybe it was $20. Probably from Staples. You could find them by googling off desk shelf (or metal mesh desk riser).

  40. Audiophile*

    Happy Friday Everyone!

    My office is having a Staff Appreciation Happy Hour! I’m more excited about the food than anything else. Probably won’t stay long since it starts at 6pm.

    I finally have health insurance, just waiting to get my cards.

    My morning started off with a very expensive cappuccino, but it was good.

    I’m still on the hunt for a remote, flexible, contract/consultant job. I’d like to pull in extra money to help cut down on my debt. The new Idealist site is not the most user friendly. I know they’re still working out the kinks, but the old version worked relatively well.

  41. That would be a good band name*

    I’m really excited about a job posting that I’m going to apply for and I’m trying to follow all the cover letter advice. Here’s what I’m trying to figure out: how long is too long? The posting has 18 “competencies” that the perfect applicant will have and a short definition for each. It’s things like teamwork, communication, adaptability, etc. And I love it. It really forms a picture of just what sort of person would do well instead of just a list of job duties. Also, I swear it’s like these competencies were pulled from my past annual reviews. I’ve never felt so well matched for a position (I realize I can’t know for sure, but I truly felt like this a perfect match as described). Surely I shouldn’t cover all 18 items, right? But how many should I try to address?

    1. Emi.*

      Can you address them in bunches? I mean, if you’re good at teamwork, that requires good communication, so whatever you say about teamwork, can you tweak it to cover communication as well?

      1. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

        That’s a good point. I’m sure several of them will overlap. I soooooo overthink this stuff!

    2. New Guy*

      For the cover letter, I’d use wording very similar to what you said in your post here. “When reviewing your list of competencies, I felt like that list could have been created just for me. I feel that my experience in … and my time doing … are great examples of how I would fit your companies needs.”
      Ok, worded better than that, but mentioning that the overall list is very reflective of your work ethic and then giving a few specific examples should cover it.

  42. Helen*

    I’ve been feeling really down about my job lately. Mostly because it feels so useless all the time. Almost my whole day is a waste of time. We spend our time arguing over really small details that don’t matter in the big picture, like where to keep a piece of paper or what to name a file. Everyone puts a lot of effort and bluster into pretending that they care about these little details of the job, even though there’s a lot of eye rolling when the boss isn’t looking. Also, many of the tasks I’m assigned don’t actually need doing–there’s a lot of “going through the motions” of doing a task that is basically busywork. There’s no point to it. I suspect that some of my colleagues don’t even do it and just say they did. Some days I just spend the whole day staring into space, and no one ever notices.

    I also feel like I’m prevented from having any kind of significant accomplishment or impact. Every time I try to come up with an idea to improve something or make some other kind of contribution that will have me stand out, I’m shot down (even if later they implement the change). And the biggest change I’d really like to make is to eliminate my job–it really isn’t needed! Every day I just feel more and more worthless.

    I’m looking for jobs, but I’ve been at this pointless, challenge-less job for so long (seven years) I’m having a really hard time making a case for any skills I could bring to another job. I’ve gotten nothing but 100% perfect performance reviews here, and yet I still feel like I’ve contributed nothing and accomplished nothing, and have nothing to offer another workplace. And it seems the feeling is mutual–I’ve been applying for jobs for two years now, with only one interview, which went terribly.

    Does anyone have any advice as to how to get out of this career rut? I not only hate coming to work every day, but I live in fear that someday they will realize how useless my department is and eliminate us altogether. I need to get out of here, and I feel trapped.

    1. Anxa*

      I don’t have advice and my situation is a lot different, but I also question the value of my contributions.

      I’m basically treading water and applying bandages. I tutor science classes in an open admissions community college and sometimes I just feel incredibly useless. We can make great progress with one concept at a time, but sometimes the reality is that the amount of time and resources it would take to reach the student’s/school’s/community’s goals just may not be worth it* in the end. But there’s very little I can do about it from my position and I’m not even sure anyone would want to fix the problem because that may mean increased job insecurity for the professional staff. It’s just…

      *I do support education for education’s sake and am not saying that students aren’t capable, but there’s a lot of willful ignorance about reasonable expectations with such little actual support for actual academics.

    2. Anonny*

      I’ve been in a similar rut and one of the things that was happening to me was that I lost the ability to accurately describe my own skills. When you do things all the time they become rote and seem easy, but it might actually be a skill that other people don’t have and you’ve been in this rut so long that your ability to recognize that is gone. It might help to reach out to someone who knows you well and see if they could give you an external perspective.

      1. Helen*

        Yeah, this seems like it is a big part of it. I’ve tried my best to describe how my skills are valuable/transferable, but I may be failing at that because I don’t feel valuable.

        I don’t have anyone in my life who knows me well in terms of my work. I tried reaching out to my former college’s career center, but I suspect that they gave me the same kind of bad advice that is often talked about as “bad career advice from college counselors.”

    3. Kately*

      I have nothing to offer but sympathy, as I could have written this myself, except for I’m at 9 years, and I can’t quite spend the whole day staring into space.

  43. Myrin*

    Katie the Fed, if you’re here:

    I asked that question in last week’s open thread which I don’t think you were on and which was then overshadowed by the good news (yay, still so happy for you and your spouse!), so I’mma ask again:

    In the week before last, you mentioned a new report you have who is very casual in a lot of little things. If you feel like it, would you speak a bit more about that? I know several people like that and I’d really like to hear what others have to say about that kind of personality/behaviour.

    1. Katie the Fed*

      Hi there! I’m late, sorry, so not sure if you’ll see this.

      The employee in question, is very intelligent but has really poor critical thinking skills and attention to detail. It’s hard to explain without getting into a lot of details, but here’s an example – if I asked you to prepare something listing the 10 Commandments, but then you randomly picked only three of them because you couldn’t figure out how to fit the rest in the space. Instead of asking how to do it, you just picked Commandment 2, 4 and 9. So you ask her why she did that, and she explains why, but it makes no sense.

      Or things like randomly using a different memo template at the last minute. Why? Who knows. She just felt like switching to a different one.

      Now picture that happening frequently, but slightly differently each time, so it feels like a game of whack-a-mole.

      I think it’s just a really bad culture fit. She’s very smart, but government is very rigid and it’s just not for everyone. I don’t really know if this one’s going to work out.

      1. Myrin*

        I am still reading, so thanks so much for answering! And wow, that does indeed sound frustrating, nevermind so… random? Keep us updated, if you feel like it!

  44. Effie*

    I’ve mentioned before that I’m a niche dance instructor on the side and I am so discouraged right now. I haven’t been able to get another dance teaching gig since my awesome studio closed in November. I don’t have a social media presence because I have two stalkers and I don’t have a strong student following because it’s been really hard to break into the industry in this city (I’ve gotten my previous gigs by doing admin first and once the owner got to know me allowed me to teach) so it’s understandable that studios don’t want to take a chance on me. I am so sick of dance studio admin which I still do on the side and I don’t have the energy to pick up another admin side gig in hopes that eventually I’ll be able to teach. My old dance studio across the country is changing management and the new owner promised me that if I move back she’ll be glad to have me back which is kind and encouraging but I’m not hanging my hopes on it because I can’t move back until autumn and by then she might not need/want me anymore. Thanks for reading, I think I just need some love today.

    1. Helen*

      Have you tried any public community education programs? Sometimes, those programs are open to new class proposals in any number of different subjects, from computer science to cooking to dance. You don’t need to wait for a job listing or anything like that–just approach your local programs and ask if they accept new class proposals. In my experience, they are often willing to post a description, and will hold the class if enough people sign up. At least near me, these classes are usually held in a school gym or similar facility during off times, so it would be a totally different vibe from the “dance studio scene.”

      1. Effie*

        That is a great idea, it’s just that my niche requires equipment that is expensive and unwieldy. I wouldn’t be able to provide it myself and I doubt the programs would be able to either :/

        1. TL -*

          It’s worth looking in to! Maybe they have budgets or maybe someone randomly left equipment, or maybe you can work out a deal with a studio to use their stuff.

    2. Ann O.*

      Are you in circus by any chance? (trying to think of what niche dance requires specialized, expensive equipment)

      I’m sorry that you’re having a hard time. I am also a niche dance instructor on the side (in circus). If you are in circus or something similar, can you do workshops or classes at the studios so they can get to know you? So much of getting gigs in my experience is becoming part of the community of teachers and performers and getting referred. Sometimes you get lucky and a studio puts out a call, too… it sounds like you have a solid CV.

      1. Effie*

        Something like that! I guess the problem is I’ve only seen workshops run by pros and I am decidedly not. I’m great with beginner students and teaching flow and transitions and studio owners don’t want to run those workshops unless it’s by one of their own instructors that students are already familiar with or pros. It’s a catch-22 :/

      2. Effie*

        Forgot to say…most of the instructors know me as an admin and a student who takes their classes; they don’t seem to believe that I can actually teach too. I promise I can!

  45. Mustache Cat*

    Has anyone ever written a really satisfying Glassdoor review? What was the reaction, if any?

    I wrote one months ago, but Glassdoor keeps periodically sending it out in email form (guess it must really want people to read it). From the number of former coworkers asking if I’d written it, I’m guessing everyone there has read it by now. Otherwise there hasn’t been anything happening that I’ve seen.

    1. Bad Candidate*

      I wrote an interview review, I said everyone was pleasant and the process was fine but ultimately, I had to take time off of work for the interview and they couldn’t be bothered to tell me I didn’t get it. They even replied and apologized and said if I wanted to ask more questions to give them a call. I wanted to stay anonymous though, so I didn’t. It felt good because I’m tired of companies doing that.

    2. Nonnonnon*

      I am desperate to write one for my former company but don’t know if I will ever be able to. I filed an EEOC complaint against them for sexual harassment and retaliation (I was terminated right after I complained about the harassment). It’s a very recognizable company as well :(

  46. Justme*

    I really like my job. But a better job (same department, same employer) opened up and I want to apply for it. I’m nervous.

      1. Justme*

        I wouldn’t say no if it were offered to me, it’s a 30% pay raise. But I know I would be fine if I never got an interview for it since I like where I am.

    2. Milton*

      I was in the same exact boat, same department different unit. I was nervous, but I got the job (and a nice raise). Good luck!

  47. Ramona Flowers*

    Your career high/lowlights in AAM-style headlines – or letters you’d go back and send if you had a time machine? People seemed to enjoy this last week and I know some people wanted a rerun.

    Here are some more of mine – happily none are from lovely currentjob…
    -Police mistook my colleague for a burglar and he’s lying about what really happened
    -My manager spends his days pretending to work while looking at motorbikes on the internet
    -Senior manager uses made-up words and shouts at me when I don’t know what they’re supposed to mean
    -Update: Google suggests one of them in fact means male genitalia, which definitely wasn’t what he was trying to say
    -Coworker gets mad if we talk to her friends, saying she wants to keep her work and personal life separate, but her friends all work here too*

    *Jane thought this was a completely reasonable way to separate work and personal matters. She complained that a new hire had tried to push into her social life, after she tried to get to know some colleagues from other teams who Jane was already friendly with. One day I met someone from another department and then forgot his name. I asked Jane to remind me what it was and SHE REFUSED TO TELL ME THE NAME OF MY COLLEAGUE because they were friends and, she said, she didn’t want to mix her work and personal life. After time, experience and much AAM reading I could now write myself a script to use with her. Back then I never felt able to say anything. And she had over a decade’s experience post-college and was in a more senior role than me, in case anyone’s imagining that this was caused by inexperience.

    3. Kowalski! Options!*

      “The IT guys got to snooping; now I know my bosses are having an affair.”

      1. PB*

        Yikes!

        This inspired another one:

        “Coworker showed us pictures of her puppy, and then told us we were lucky we didn’t have cancer.”

        … my last job was really weird.

          1. PB*

            It was one of those spectacularly awkward and awful moments. The full speech was basically:

            “I’m so happy with my new puppy! But you guys with kids are the real lucky ones. I couldn’t have kids. I had cancer instead.”

            This was during a meeting. We kind of all just stared around the table, slack-jawed. I mean, obviously I feel very bad for her that that was her experience, but wow.

    5. PB*

      “My coworker withheld information and sabotaged my project, but our manager insists it was a misunderstanding.”

      “We’re being forced to Thunder Dome for our raises.”

      “My coworker screamed at our director, but kept her job, and still complains about him daily.”

      Finally:
      “Update: I’ve escaped my hellhole employer!”

    6. Malibu Stacey*

      I got a verbal warning because a visitor complimented my outfit in front of my coworker who had a crush on him.

    7. Amber Rose*

      Hmm. The lowest moment so far was “I am so afraid of getting yelled at that I snuck back into work at midnight to double check things.”

      Prior to that: “My boss died in a plane crash and I spend all day playing therapist to grieving friends of his.”

      I wish I’d had AAM back then to provide some perspective. That was a bad job on so many levels.

    8. Parenthetically*

      “A Coworker Quit Because of the Title of A Book on Her Son’s Syllabus” (I was his teacher)

      “A Coworker Screamed at me In Front of My Entire Class for ‘Undermining Another Teacher’s Authority'” (and absolutely did not see the irony)

    9. NW Mossy*

      “The competition for an internal posting called me to complain that she didn’t get it and rant about upper management – was I wrong to tell her to talk to them about her concerns and backhandedly encourage her to develop a reputation as a crazy person?”

    10. Malibu Stacey*

      “Our Receptionist Starts Two Hours Before The Office Opens So She Can Leave Early And Spends That Time Doing Her Hair and Texting Her Adult Kids”

    11. Kvothe*

      “Random people with guitars started playing music next to a meeting room and then asked for donations”

      Details:
      -We have no idea who they were
      -We are not in like a mall or anything but a stand alone building (and we’re an engineering firm)
      -Our receptionist was trying to get them to stop playing as there was a meeting going on with clients
      -After not listening to the receptionist and disturbing an entire department they then asked for donations
      -Just was wild times all around

      2. cookie monster*

        I was worried this was going to be about me…I work in a financial institution and run a guitar night out of our board room every week. All employees that want to attend come for a group guitar lesson.

      4. Beezus*

        “My salary comes out of another department’s budget, and their director reminds me of that while trying to countermand my director’s orders.”

    12. The RO-Cat*

      Neither high nor low, but weird as weird comes: “My boss organized a skinny-dipping party in the hotel pool at midnight” and UPDATE “I found out my boss secretely offered a bonus to the first other-sex coworker who get in bed with me”. Spoiler: I didn’t partake in the first and the bonus wasn’t awarded, in spite of several takers existing, in the second. Boy, was that a weird company!

      1. Parenthetically*

        If… if that wasn’t a low, boy I’m not at all sure I’d want to hear the lows!

        1. The RO-Cat*

          For context, this was about two decades ago. I am male and married (was at the time, too) and I was known as The Family Guy and my boss wanted to see if I somehow could be lured (long story, don’t ask). Other than that, from that particular boss I learned the most and professionally speaking he was awsome; he just had this hangup (related to his own experience? I don’t know). I don’t really have lows (as in going home in tears or something), looking back at those years; just weird moments. Like this one: “I had a run-in with my boss and was forced to quit; later he praised me repeteadly to others for my attitude” but this was at a different company.

        2. The RO-Cat*

          Oh, and I forgot, from the same boss: “My boss offered me a prostitute and I had to make an Irish exit to avoid her”.

    13. Venus Supreme*

      – Boss made me come into work day after Mother-in-Law’s funeral to ask how she died
      – Coworker throws up at her desk
      – Coworker keeps flinging nail clippings at me
      – Manager calls my coworker her “second daughter”

    14. Sabrina Spellman*

      “HELP: My coworker/friend thinks I tattled on her and now hates me, but I only verified what our boss already knew”

      “My manager and asst. manager are making me the pickle in the middle”

    15. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      -I received a promotion and GM refuses to allow me to move into an office (even though the position requires confidential conversations and several offices are empty)
      -My boss sends us emails at 2am about made up things that we have done wrong
      -My boss asked me to log her time into the payroll system but she hasn’t been to work in weeks
      -My boss calls out sick but then calls and keeps us on the phone for hours while slurring her speech
      -A woman I trained was promoted to head of my former department and everyone keeps coming to me because she sucks at her job

      1. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

        Oh and Update: I’ve been moved into a storage room for an office while 3 regular offices sit empty.

        The office thing really got to me. The GM just did not like me. I could never figure out why. I was promoted within a month of her becoming the GM and the only thing I could guess was that she didn’t like that she didn’t have any say in the promotion. I had applied for a corporate position before she came and when I got it they told her to find me private work space. She did everything in her power to be sure that “private” was covered while I was stuck in various spaces that no one else would have been willing to work in.

          1. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

            This was an old employer. The HR manager and I had a fairly close working relationship and so we discussed it. The GM would tell HR that there were “plans” for those offices and/or that they had to be left empty for client visits. I had worked there for years and I knew that client visitors generally wanted to be in the same office as the person they were visiting – not in their own office. The GM finally gave in and put me in an office because the facility manager said that he needed the rest of the storage room. I was so happy when she left.

    16. Hallie*

      “My coworker is a meth addict and everyone knows and no one will do anything about it.”

      Good times, that job. Can’t believe I stayed as long as I did.

    17. OB*

      My company sent me on a business trip (to receive training that could have been accomplished remotely), refused to pay for my meals (and didn’t even mention accommodation—I crashed with a friend!), then capitulated when I pushed back asking for a per diem … but not before haggling me down $15

      1. OB*

        “Help! My manager wants me to go bra shopping with her” (true story but THANKFULLY not my dilemma)

    18. DaBlonde*

      – I did not even get an interview for a promotion within my company, the new hire used the phrase baby mama in her case notes, supervisor bribes me with a high-end computer system to proof-read her work in the future.

    19. Fishcakes*

      – My boss won’t stop asking me strange questions over the phone intercom in front of clients
      – My coworker keeps talking to me about her husband’s genitals
      – My supervisor brought in a 6′ tall wooden ‘snowman’ and I think it’s haunted
      – My recently-fired coworker hid shards of glass in her papers and I cut myself
      – My boss tries to karate kick me when I walk past him

        2. PB*

          Me, too! And wtf to the shards of glass! Was this in a conscious effort to make you cut yourself?

          1. Fishcakes*

            I think it was done on purpose. She was unhinged. She cried a lot, told her manager to shove her work up her a**, and hid reimbursement cheques from her team. (Yes, she was fired.)

        3. Fishcakes*

          My supervisor at a job I had years ago really liked kitschy “country” decor – toll paintings and stuff. One winter she found this horrible, huge wooden snowman and dragged it to work ON THE BUS at rush hour. Her office didn’t have room for it, so I got stuck with it. It gave me the creeps. It somehow sucked all of the light out of the room, and I’d come into the office in the morning and it would be in a slightly different place from where it belonged – like it would move forward a few inches so it blocked the file cabinet drawers from opening. My supervisor swore she wasn’t messing with it (she didn’t really have a sense of humour so I believed her). I kept imagining it falling on me like the taxidermed polar bear in Road House.

          1. Ramona Flowers*

            Obama would sympathise. Remember when people pranked him with snowmen?

        1. Fishcakes*

          “Fishcakes, can you sing?”
          “Fishcakes, do you play a musical instrument?”
          “Fishcakes, how do you wash your hair?”

          She was about 70 years old and had a voice like Julia Child.

    20. TheLazyB*

      Mine:
      -Work sent me to occupational health about something I thought was a non-issue and now I’ll be off sick for a month, oops!
      -Is it normal to cry every Sunday about going back to work?
      -i worked mornings only for three years after my son was born- now I’m working full time again and It’s killing me!
      -update: nearly two years later I’m still exhausted working full time but have learned to suck it up. Yay?
      -working while pregnant and suffering from OCD
      -help- our company’s data is a mess and no one seems to care but me!

    22. Policy Monkey*

      Mine:

      My coworker asked me to be an egg donor for him and his same-sex partner and then stopped talking to me when I said “no.”

    23. Lissa*

      Pretty much all of mine are from working in restaurants/fast food etc. And most from one insane franchise.

      “Customer tried to get me in trouble with management for having an annoying voice.”
      “Business owner and supervisor are doing drugs in the office while supervisor’s mother denies everything and got someone fired for talking about it.” (the above was part of two years of the worst drama I have ever experienced)
      “Manager asked if I was bisexual”
      “Coworker told everyone I was going to clubs and hooking up — and meant it as a compliment!”
      “Coworker tells me about his creepy violent fantasies about what he’ll do if someone robs the store”
      “Coworker bragged about lying about a dead relative.”

      I have so many. Sadly most aren’t really “I need advice” scenarios, just “this weird thing happened”.

    24. Ramona Flowers*

      I can’t believe I forgot this one:

      -If I get held up at work, I’m supposed to walk over to the intercom and page a manager

      Started a new job in retail when I was about 20. I’d previously worked in a shop with silent alarms under the counter so had kind of assumed everywhere had them, but new job didn’t.

      My supervisor told me that, if I got held up, I should walk over to the intercom, which involved walking out from behind the counter, and page a manager. Presumably while the assailant politely stands by, waiting?

      I asked if she was actually serious – if someone was threatening me to open the till was that really what she expected me to do?

      Her (brightly): oh but you can’t open the till unless they’re buying something!

    25. Word Turner*

      – “My two bosses each tell me to ignore anything the other asks me to do.”

      (from years ago)

  48. Kowalski! Options!*

    I’m not sure if how much of this is an issue, but I’d appreciate some feedback from the AAM folks:
    One of the members of our team (who I don’t really work closely with, but whose elevator-cubicle trajectory takes her right in front of my burlap kingdom a number of times per day) is a vegan and a baker. Nothing wrong with vegans, and certainly nothing wrong with baking. However, her speciality is vegan banana bread, and there are few foods that I dislike more than bananas. Hate ’em. Long story. About once a month, she’ll make her vegan banana bread and leave it on the desks of the other members of the team, but when she passes by my desk, she makes a point of announcing, “Well, I’d offer some to Kowalski, but I know how Kowalski feels about my baking, so I won’t bother.” (Kowalski, for the record, is not much for sweets in general, and has lost 26 lbs. since January thanks to reining in junk food and snacking.)
    Obviously, not being offered banana bread isn’t that much of an imposition; but does it really need an announcement every time she does it? I’m tempted to say, “Well, why bother offering banana bread if you know I don’t like it?”

    1. Collie*

      I don’t think there’s anything wrong with just responding, “Actually, I just really dislike bananas. I always have!” and leave it at that. If she tries the whole “Oh, but you haven’t tried my banana bread,” thing, just go with, “I’d really rather not. But thanks!”

      1. Kowalski! Options!*

        The thing is, I did that for the first six months I was here and it doesn’t seem to have worked. I mean, I get that she uses food to try to bond with people, but no amount of offering is ever going to get me to try that thing. Especially since she’s been told endlessly, “Thank you, but I don’t like bananas.”

      2. Rat Racer*

        Agreed, and it sounds like this woman is getting under your skin, which makes it harder to be sweet to her, but maybe reassure her that you think she’s a phenomenal cook – you just aren’t a banana person. (I’m not a banana fan myself – although the depths of my loathing is reserved for artificially flavored/scented banana stuff. That is the WORST…)

        1. Kowalski! Options!*

          There’s THAT blessing: she’s so against artificial/chemical anything that at least they’re real bananas.

      3. Lilo*

        I will also note that, gven your diet, avoiding something like vegan banana bread is smart. I have a friend who is vegan and I have done a lot of vegan baking, and, unfortunately, a lot of the substitutions add a lot of vegetable fat and sugar to make up for missing eggs and butter. This may not be true for hers but vegan definitely does not always mean healthier.

        As for your situation, I think you can probably just ignore her. Your colleagues all know why, and she just likely comes across as being a bit dramatic.

        1. Kowalski! Options!*

          Oh, yeah. I can just imagine the amount of sugar and coconut oil that goes into making it. I’d probably be better off going face-first into a bag of Doritos.

        2. Anon today...and tomorrow*

          A friend of mine is a vegan and in her first six months as a vegan she put on nearly 15 pounds and couldn’t really figure out why as she thought vegan was synonymous with healthy. Another vegan friend of hers had to explain the truth. She was a bit bummed to learn the truth, but she’s loving the vegan way of life.

    2. Anon today...and tomorrow*

      This reminds me of the letter with all the snarky employees yesterday. “I won’t say anything” is still staying something.

      Why not say something the next time she makes the snarky comment? “I’ve lost 26 pounds sine January, so my efforts to rein in the sweets at work is obviously working for me. No need to point out that I’m not eating your snacks every time I don’t. It’s not personal, it’s for me.”

      1. Kowalski! Options!*

        I was kind of thinking of taking the Alison tack and asking, neutrally, “I notice that you seem to be somewhat irritated when I don’t accept your offer of banana bread. Is there anything that I should know about?” Not passive-aggressively, but just as a way of getting it out in the open.

        (The last time she offered, I nearly said, “No thanks, I just finished a small bag of beef jerky” – which I*had* eaten – but then I thought better of it.)

        1. Lily in NYC*

          There’s a decent chance she will overreact and this will backfire. If you really want to get under her skin, just give her a big smile and a nod every time she comments on your dislike of her baking. She’s being passive aggressive and I have a feeling if you confront her she will find a way to play the victim. Her baking is something she’s proud of and she wants praise and thanks. In her mind, you don’t provide that to her and she just can’t help but put in a dig because it bothers her more than she’s letting on. This is exactly how my mom is with cooking. She is an amazing chef, but I think she enjoys cooking because of the praise and attention it gives her, not because she loves the process.

          1. Sadsack*

            Agreed. Just keep ignoring her comments. She wants you to say “No, I love your baking, really.” Say nothing. Your saying nothing is eating her alive. I think that is ok since she is clearly trying to make you feel bad about not accepting her food.

    3. Myrin*

      Maybe I’m missing something but this sounds like a situation where you can just nod politely once (or maybe even exclaim “Yes, exactly!” which is something I’ve had success with before, but it certainly depends on your personality) and generally ignore it. It doesn’t sound like she’s pushing the bread on you, just making snide remarks, which is pretty weird and immature and as a coworker would definitely make me look at her unfavourably, not you.

      1. The Cosmic Avenger*

        Yeah, I’m going to agree with Myrin’s approach. You’ve already explained, and she’s still making passive-aggressive attacks, I think it’s time to play oblivious with her. Just keep saying things like “Thanks for remembering!”, and act extremely chipper with her. She may not even realize she’s doing it, but the point of that kind of PA needling is either to bully the target, or to provoke the target into lashing out, making her the poor, innocent victim. Either way, aggressive obliviousness makes it completely unrewarding. :)

        1. HannahS*

          Yes! Playing oblivious is intensely satisfying, because it catches people off-guard.

    4. Zathras*

      Fellow extreme banana hater here! (Seriously how do the rest of you eat those things?)

      She may not be doing it to be mean or deliberately single you out. It may be a joke to cover the fact that she would feel awkward silently not offering you any. There is a thing where people announce they are intentionally violating a social norm and it makes them feel better about doing it. (I first read about this in the context of the “five second rule” – which has nothing to do with whether the food is contaminated and everything to do with reassuring yourself and anyone who sees that you are not an unsocialized boor who believes it’s normal to eat off the ground.)

      If you think that might be the case, you could say “Hey, I realize you’re probably just saying it because you feel bad not offering me any, but it’s kind of awkward for me to get called out like that every time. Could you just quietly not offer me any, going forward?” Explicitly ask for the behavior you want.

      If there’s any chance she might actually think you hate her baked goods in particular, you could add, “I also wanted to make sure you knew it’s really just bananas I don’t like, not your baking in general.” If she’s ever brought in some non-banana thing that you liked, you could mention that.

      1. Kowalski! Options!*

        Good points, thanks.

        (Also: “Y’know, potato chips are vegan, too. If you brought some of those in, I’d be your best customer.”)

        1. Troutwaxer*

          I’ve had zucchini bread made with the same recipe as banana bread and it was fabulous. Why don’t you suggest that?

      2. Jules the First*

        My favourite professor at university announced on the first day of (8am) class that bananas were verboten in his classroom because he could not stand the smell. I was thrilled, as I cannot stand them either. One day, just before midterms, professor stops mid-sentence, swallows, and turns green. Three deep breaths later, he asks that whoever is eating a banana please leave the room immediately. There were 300 people in that lecture, and one banana.

        The in-office supply of bananas is one of the major downsides of the weekly office fruit delivery!

        1. Zathras*

          Wow, that is pretty sensitive! I’m not terribly bothered by the smell unless it’s really heavy, but I find they totally overwhelms any other flavor which is supposed to be in food. I don’t drink those Odwalla smoothie things because they use banana as a base/thickener in almost all of them. To me they all have exactly the same terrible flavor. But I’m told non-banana-haters don’t actually taste the banana in them at all.

          1. Panda Bandit*

            Yeah, I hate adding bananas to things because they always overpower the other ingredients. I don’t completely hate bananas but I don’t want to eat them all that often.

    5. fposte*

      She’s not offering, she’s noting that she remembers your preference. Now, it sounds like she might be doing so very ostentatiously and annoyingly, but if you separate out any annoying motivations it’s not an inappropriate thing to do. And you can make sure it stays that way by saying, “Thanks; I think it’s really cool that you remember.” If you like, you can add something like “Being a vegan probably means you understand what it’s like to have to say no to people’s kind offerings; I really appreciate that you don’t take it personally.”

      1. Kowalski! Options!*

        It’s the tone of voice, though….she’s a bit on the dramatic side to start with, but it’s the tone of her voice (and the way she flicks her hand over her head when she says it)… but yeah. Obliviousness or engaging her on the “I don’t eat that” thing may be the easiest way to go.

        On a side note, can I just say how glad I am that there are other people on here who hate bananas? You don’t meet many that often.

        1. fposte*

          Yes, I acknowledge that it sounds like she’s doing so annoyingly; it’s certainly possible that she’s acting out her hurt feelings that you don’t want her bread. But if you frame her remembering your dislike as a generous gesture, it puts her in the position of having to make it one, and she may be nicer with her tone in future.

        2. Celeste*

          I don’t care for banana bread, either. It always looks like spider legs are mixed in. Of course you know it isn’t spider legs. But it’s a super unappetizing thought.

          2. Panda Bandit*

            This is why I only drink pulp free orange juice. The bits of pulp feel like what I imagine spider legs to feel like.

      2. Myrin*

        Exactly what I’ve been meaning to say, as always stated much more concisely by fposte!

    6. WhichSister*

      Also not a banana eater. I have a psychological allergy that goes back…. well most of my life. I call it psychological because its possible I am not actually allergic, but because of the long story behind it, the smell of bananas makes me physically ill. (Although I have been told I make great banana bread.)

      I just tell people I am allergic without the long story. If she offers again, ask her why she continues to offer you something that she knows you will not enjoy, and if she would bake something you can partake in then you would be happy to try it.

      1. Lissa*

        I am not asking for details of course but I’m so curious about how two people here, you and Kowalski, both not just hate bananas but have long stories around them! Just because I have read a lot of threads about people’s disliked foods but bananas are the only one where I’ve seen a long story attached! What did bananas do??

        –banana neutral person.

        1. Catherine from Canada*

          Why I Hate Banana Flavour
          I was 8 years old, it was the last day of Grade 4, and my last day at that school and my second to last day in our house. We were moving the next day to the suburbs.
          The teacher went around the class and handed out popsicles as a last day treat. You had to reach into the box and take whatever you touched (they had paper wrappers.) I pulled out a banana popsicle. I didn’t like banana popsicles so I asked if I could switch. Of course, as a good teacher, she said No, you had to follow the rules.
          To me, that was the last straw. My life was over. I was losing all my friends, my house, the park, everything and now I had to eat a banana popsicle. To this day, banana flavour tastes like tears.

    7. Beancounter Eric*

      First, congratulations on the 26 lbs!!

      Ignoring this person is probably the best move – either that, or, if the comment is made again, a polite response along the lines of “you say that every time, is it really necessary?”

  49. Lilo*

    So I just finished up a temporary management assignment and it has felt like a huge break. However my bosses are super happy with my performance and want me to consider looking into management more permanently. I liked a lot of it, but I found it exhausting, which I was told was true for everyone and that after a year or so, you adjust. So how to decide? My career would be totally fine without jumping to management, but if I am ambitious this is the way to go, but on the other hand, it is a lot of stress. Have other people felt this kind of tiredness and does it really go away after a while?

    1. Roman Holiday*

      I’m in the same boat! I’m my boss’s official successor, but her job would mean a higher workload, a lot more stress and responsibility, direct reports etc. I love my current job and I don’t really want to take on more work. I feel like I should be more ambitious about climbing the corporate ladder…but then I think maybe it’s just societal expectations. Anyone else had to make this call?

  50. Anon today...and tomorrow*

    It’s no secret that my husband has been unhappy in his current position. He’s been trying to find something else, but it’s been hard given the bulk of his experience is in social services – a field he’s begun to dislike passionately. Last week his own boss approached him to let him know of an opening in HR that he thinks my husband would be a great fit for. He filled out the application, sent his resume and cover letter (which he wrote after I forced him to this site to review examples. His first cover letter was awful!!!) and submitted it on Saturday.
    He got a call yesterday…he has an interview on Tuesday!!!! AND…his boss, his grand boss, and great grand boss all called and put in a good word for my husband. The job would give us back holidays (he currently has to work all holidays), an occasional snow day (the office closes if the local schools close for weather), and $15,000 MORE than what he makes…plus he’d keep his current medical benefits (which is the reason he’s kept this job for as long as he has!).
    I’ll take any prayers, good thoughts, spells, pixie dust, lucky sock dances, etc that you can give me on this! And yes…I’m dragging him to this site this weekend to review the How To Interview Guide.

    1. Rat Racer*

      Sending all of those well wishes to your family. It sounds like your husband has put in his time trying to save the world at tremendous personal expense. He (and you!) deserve a break! Rooting for you!!

    2. JanetM*

      All best wishes for success and good luck at the interview! (And, wow, yay for his boss and chain of command for suggesting he apply and recommending him.)

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Sending out prayers, good thoughts and all that stuff. This sounds like a great opportunity for him, I love how enthused you sound, too. I hope he gets it.

  51. Engineering Manager*

    Question for all of you writers and editors out there. My wife has recently started to freelance edit scientific/academic papers and was wondering if there was a good software package out there to help with that process. The majority of the people she is editing for are non native English speakers, so a lot of what she does is fix grammar, sentence structure, wording, etc., as well as make the formatting consistent with the requirements for the target journal. Most of the editing will be done with Word, so something that is compatible with that would be the most useful. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

    1. Emily*

      Can you explain what specifically about Word isn’t working for this?

      Just asking because I have personally done similar editing and help with translation for some friends’ manuscripts. I really like Word’s Reviewing tab options, where you can track changes, add comments to explain things, etc. The newer versions of Word have a lot of good functions.

      I think a lot of publications use Adobe InDesign for page layouts, but content can be pasted from Word after it’s finalized.

      1. Engineering Manager*

        It’s not that Word isn’t working, she uses it now, but she is looking for something that could help with her productivity, possibly automating some of the more common problems. So, for example, if there was something that had better grammar check for scientific papers, extended dictionary, etc., even a small productivity improvement would be worthwhile since she gets paid by the article.

    2. Hannah*

      I work in this field, and while there is certainly manuscript clean-up software out there, I wouldn’t recommend a freelancer purchase it cold. First of all, it is likely that if she is working for different clients, they are going to have different expectations and needs, so a one-size-fits-all approach would be difficult. Second, it is likely that the publisher will already have run an article through clean-up software, if they use it. Third, those software packages are extremely expensive. There are less expensive, web-based versions of some programs that her clients may be able to give her a license for, but I definitely would not recommend using anything without the explicit knowledge and direction of the client.

      And I can’t think of any software out there that fixes grammar or sentence structure–it is mostly geared toward standardizing citations and references and maybe certain style elements. ESPECIALLY in science, with all of the field-specific terms and complicated ideas being conveyed, that is just too complicated for an algorithm to figure out.

      The built-in tools in Word and Adobe Acrobat should be sufficient for a typical freelance editor. Publishers won’t be expecting her to have more.

      1. Mary (in PA)*

        I’m in the same field and I’m with Hannah – the requirements for formatting for journals vary so widely that Word itself is almost the only universal program out there. And the more stuff you plug into it, the less stable it gets. I worked on a 34-chapter book for a client in exclusively Word, including Word references and bibliographies.

        If she’s working with a lot of math/science/equation-y things, she might need a working knowledge of LaTeX, but even if she doesn’t already have that, it’s possible to muddle through. TeXStudio is free to download.

        The only possible items I would recommend a freelance editor purchase are copies of the Chicago Manual of Style, the APA style manual, and Garner’s Modern American Usage.

        1. Hannah*

          Yes to the LaTex issue, but also, it seemed like the Engineering Manager wants something to actually do some of the work for her, not just another way to access editing tools, such as she might need to do if working with LaTex files. While there are some plug-ins or web-based tools that work with Word in that way (but only in a limited and specific way, which is why I wouldn’t recommend them without the client specifically requesting that you use them), I don’t know of any that work with LaTex at all.

    3. Mephyle*

      I do this (in Word and LaTeX), and I can’t imagine any software that could automate a single aspect of the process. This task really requires 100% human processing in every regard – from correcting non-native errors to making the format consistent and compliant.
      If there was some software that could do this, then there would already be artificial intelligence that could duplicate human creativity.

      1. Mary (in PA)*

        I agree 100%, especially when you’re dealing with non-native English speakers. Academic language (and grammar) is somewhat prescriptivist, especially in the sciences; but as we move toward descriptivism, human judgment is vital. Editing involves even more nuance than writing does.

    4. katamia*

      I used to do this exact work (science journal articles for non-native English speakers), and I really want to caution against doing too much to automate it. Sometimes what you think they’re saying and what they’re actually saying are very different (and sometimes you don’t figure it out until much later in the paper that something that seemed like a straightforward fix actually needs to be fixed another way), and that software can wind up changing things the wrong way and making it harder to fix.

      For common mistakes that are always wrong (like if they put two spaces when they should only put one), a quick Ctrl+H can help.

    5. Engineering Manager*

      Thanks all for the replies. Just to be clear, she wasn’t looking for something to completely automate things, just something to help. Since she is freelance, even a small productivity gain could be worth the investment. Based on the comments, it doesn’t sound like there is anything out there to do this.
      Since it sounds like there are others who are/were in the same line of work, where did you find jobs for this? Right now she is going through a certain company (I don’t know which one) that specializes in this, but she is looking for alternative source down the road when she gets more experience under her belt. Someone mentioned Fiver to her, so she plans to look into that, but if anyone else has any other recommendations, that would be appreciated.

      1. katamia*

        Well, I moved to Taiwan for mine because I was specifically looking to move abroad, but I’m assuming that’s not an option. :P

        One thing she can do is look at the submission guidelines/guidelines for authors for the journals her clients tend to submit to. I had to look at them for formatting guidelines, and a lot of them had paragraphs where they recommended specific people or companies that non-native English speakers could submit their papers to before submitting to the journal.

        If there are any colleges nearby, she could also look into advertising to help proofread/format graduate dissertations or papers by the faculty there.

    6. Ann O.*

      It sounds like she’s looking for a freelancer equivalent of Acrolinx. I have no idea if there’s a non-enterprise product, but I’d suggest she Google on Acrolinx and competitors to get a sense of what’s out there.

      But the caveat is that the way these products work* is to feed in sample output to help them build their rules. I don’t know how much sample output they require before they get useful. Also, I don’t think it will help with formatting if the target journals have a lot of variation in requirements.

      * as I understand it–I have coworkers who’ve had good experiences with Acrolinx but never used it or an equivalent myself

    7. Cambridge Comma*

      PerfectIt and macros.
      There are tonnes of companies offering Word plug-ins for editors.

  52. Rat Racer*

    I am facing a career decision choosing between two lateral moves within the company.

    Choice A: Boss is brilliant and competent but abrasive. She is basically starting her own start-up within the company, doing something that is exciting and mission driven, and offering me a role that aligns with my future career plans. However, her dog-eat-dog, your “feelings” are irrelevant, ping-you-five-times-on-Sunday management style scares me. I’m worried that she will eat me alive and that I will be a disappointing snack.

    Choice B: Boss is another phenomenal leader, but also very kind. He has hand-picked me for this role (which is very flattering) with an offer of mentorship and commitment to helping me grow within the company. Downside: crazy travel, and it’s basically a sales job, which moves me further and further away from my dream of moving back into mission-driven work.

    I have been saying to myself that I should try choice A, commit to a year, and if it’s miserable, I can move on – hopefully parlaying the experience into a similar role at a non-profit, or a for-profit that isn’t evil. I’ve lamented on these boards about the moral quandaries of working a corporation that has made choices I personally find morally reprehensible.

    Has anyone out there taken a job that they knew would cause short-term pain in hopes of long-term gain? What was your experience like? Do you feel like you made the right decision?

    1. Christy*

      Oh my god, go with Choice B a million times over. A good boss is worth infinitely more than anything else paired with a bad boss. I’ve always gone with the good boss and it has *always* served me.

      1. Rat Racer*

        I wouldn’t say that Boss A is “bad” just tough and demanding. Having had my fair of terrible bosses though, I definitely hear what you’re saying…

        1. This Daydreamer*

          Your description makes her sound like she will NEVER be satisfied with your performance. In my experience, that’s incredibly stressful and demoralizing. Add in the weekend texts and I think you’re setting yourself up for far more exhaustion and emotional scarring than it’s worth.

          I guess some people thrive in that kind of environment, and more power to them, but it sounds like a nightmare to me.

    2. CatCat*

      Do you *have* to make one of these moves? I wouldn’t choose either if I could stay where I was.

      If I absolutely had to, I’d choose based on the boss.

      1. Rat Racer*

        This is the interesting wrinkle: My current job is going to change – I’m a chief of staff, and my actual boss resigned a few months ago. So I’ve been a chief of staff to a blank ledger on the org chart – that’s my little joke, haha. They’ve hired a new VP to replace my former boss, but that person is a complete unknown. (insert rant about the total communications vacuum from executive leadership)

        Beyond the mystery of the new VP, I’ve been in a chief of staff role for about 5 years now, and I’m getting a little tired of the role ambiguity, jack of all trades, bail water out of the ship MO of the job. I would love to have a job with boundaries, and one that I can more easily articulate what it is that I do. I know this seems like a small thing – being unable to describe your job in a single sentence/paragraph – but it can have lasting implications for whatever job I pursue next.

        So, yes, there is an option C, which is to stay put and see what happens. I’m longing for some stability, if option A and B are both unpalatable, maybe it IS better to go with the unknown…

        1. Hallie*

          Mmm…A sounds scarier than B…I’d pick being exhausted from travel over being exhausted from weekend texts from boss.

          1. Rat Racer*

            I forgot to mention that I have a family with young children (can’t forget about those rugrats!) so Option B isn’t even a realistic, unless Boss B is willing to negotiate on the travel.

    3. Effie*

      I took an entry-level position with a startup that seemed very fresh and innovative that I knew (and they knew) I was overqualified for, and was promised verbally that I’d move up quickly through the company. In my time there, the startup started changing over to corporate culture but in the worst ways possible: micromanaging everything including word choice in customer correspondence, no transparency from management, flexibility of duties and schedules decreased to zero, etc. We went from being treated like valued team members to cogs in a machine. Also my manager refused to have any official performance reviews with me (I had one official one in thirteen months) and I was so good at my job they wouldn’t move me. I so regret taking the position and not actively continuing my job search after taking the position I knew I was overqualified for. Also working under uncaring management took a huge toll from me. We were getting stuff done and we were miserable. Hope this helps!

    4. Emily*

      I have a question.

      Would it be possible to choose option A, but set clear boundaries with Ms. Terrible? Such as, “I’m not willing to work on Sundays.”

      I think committing to a year sounds worthwhile, if it’s a step in the right direction for your career.

    5. AMPG*

      I would take the job that aligns best with my career plans, honestly. Something like sales has a way of sucking you in, and then you might have a harder time course-correcting.

      Is it possible for you to sit down with Boss A and air out some of your concerns ahead of time? I think it’s very possible to have good working relationships with demanding bosses as long as you’re able to be honest with each other and get on the same page quickly.

      On the other hand, it’s possible to make a left turn and have things work out OK if you keep your eyes open for opportunities. After relocating a couple of years ago to an area where my specific field of expertise doesn’t really exist, I ended up taking a development job because that’s what was available. Now my boss is making noise about moving me into upper management, which would put me back on more of a mission-driven track.

      And that’s the other piece of my advice – there’s no definite wrong decision in this scenario. You can move on from a choice that doesn’t work out.

    6. JulieBulie*

      Not EXACTLY the same thing, but…

      I have suffered through two (in a row) very bad jobs that I took because I had no other option at the time, but I made sure while I was in these jobs that I would develop skills and gain experience that would pay off in the long term.

      Because I was unemployed when I accepted these jobs, I can’t say it was a matter of the “right decision.” Gotta eat! Those job experiences were excruciating, but they led me to where I am today, which is pretty awesome.

      If I had to do it all again, even knowing about the long-term gains, I’m not sure I would take those jobs if I had other options. They took a toll on my mental and physical health. Blood pressure, anxiety, migraines, the whole schmear. At times I felt like I was having a nervous breakdown. They say that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, but they never mention that it just might make you wish you were dead.

      On the other hand, if you think you can take Choice A and get out after a year, I think you should go for it. Knowing that it’s only going to be a year will make it much easier. I didn’t know how long I would be stuck in my horrible jobs, and that was a big part of the misery.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Job A. Without even thinking “no way in h3ll”.

      Job B. And this will help your reach your goal how?

      My choice. Stay put. Look around, you can find something better than these two choices here.

    1. Roman Holiday*

      Wow. That takes quite the level of…gumption to try and force the co-worker out. I’m that the advice on how to handle it looks spot-on though. If I was the LW, I’d concentrate on sending nasty/weird thoughts her way to see if her “empath” mind could pick up on them.

    2. SophieChotek*

      Yes, I am glad you posted this. I immediately wondered what AAM community would think of this. (I was going to post too, but you beat me to it!)

    3. fposte*

      I saw that. I spent some time imagining what I would say to the co-worker. It wouldn’t be pleasant.

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Wow…

      I do think Prudie’s advice was good, but I cannot even imagine being in a situation like that.

    5. Lilo*

      That coworker is cuckoo for cocopuffs. Mallory is totally right: Being nice to people you don’t like and acting confident when you are nervous is basic professionalism. I also think Mallory was right that this calls for immediate escalation to boss or HR. You can’t productively engage with that level of hostility.

      1. Crafty*

        Agreed! I love advice columns, but I always take their workplace advice with a BIG grain of salt unless its work-related column like AAM….Prudie’s advice felt right. The co-workers behavior was sooooo beyond the pale! That one would have definitely pushed the 1,000 comment marker over here.

        1. Lilo*

          For what it’s worth, I think Mallory reads AAM – The Toast (sadly now shut down) used to link to it all the time.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      The fact that she thought it was okay to say this to the OP indicates that this is going to take more than one person to solve it. I agree with Prudie’s advice.

      A bunch of stabby statements like this can cloud the recipient’s vision. I hope that the OP sees the correct answer is, “I am staying so you will have to move to plan B.”

      Hopefully, this woman changes her attitude and approach because it’s not going to carry her very far.

    7. Lissa*

      I read that and really wished she had written AAM instead, ha!

      On a sidenote, I have seen things similar to this that it has made me wary of “trust your gut” with no other qualifiers in work situations specifically. I knew somebody who was convinced someone was secretly awful in some way because her dog didn’t like him. It was . . . a whole thing.

    8. Chaordic One*

      As someone who has both worked with a lot of fake people, and who has also been accused of being one, if I were the OP I think I’d stick around just to annoy Anna.

  54. Anons*

    I am looking for advice on how to represent self-directed IT learning on a resume. A relative is taking formal courses through the local community college, but has also been taking self-directed courses through free resources online. Is there a way to represent that in a resume, or should he only be listing his formal education?

    1. Emma*

      I’d just list that under skills. I think I have a technology section on my resume, where I list the different software, etc that I have experience in. I don’t list how I gained the experience, since I don’t think that matters!

    2. Zathras*

      What Emma said – it should go as a short list in a Skills section. Employers will ask about the skills they are interested in and as long as he is truthful about the context of the experience when asked it’s fine to list them there.

      Another thing I would encourage him to do is work on one or two small side projects that show off some of these skills. You don’t put them on a resume (although it’s fine to have a Github link or similar). But he can bring them in the cover letter and in interviews. Even if it’s not directly related to the job, doing an independent project will give him talking points on how he decided to approach it X way and how he solved Y problem that came up. It’s good to have examples from outside the classroom, where you have defined both the problem and the solution, and there is less direct guidance. (But larger open-ended classroom projects can work for this too.)

      Contributing to open source projects can also be a good way to get more experience in the skills listed in that section.

      1. Anons*

        Thank you so much for this helpful advice! He is working on entering the IT field and has talked to people in the field about desirable skills, but is not clear on how to package them in an application.

        1. Zathras*

          You’re welcome! To clarify more about the skills section – it’s not a paragraph, or even phrases. It’s literally just a list of different software, languages, etc. that you have some level of experience with. I put things I am very competent with first, and the last item is usually something I used for a little bit a long time ago but might be relevant to the job (maybe they mentioned it in the ad). Mine looks vaguely like this:

          Programming languages: Python, Perl, Bash, C
          Software: TeapotDesignPlus, SpoutMonitor, HotBeverageCAD
          Operating Systems: KitchenOS, IndustrialStovetop, Keurig

          Good luck to your relative! I transitioned into my current job (which is a particular subset of IT) from a completely different field, so it can definitely be done.

  55. Zathras*

    I’m starting to look for a new job and I’m having trouble with the idea of letting go of my current projects. Advice on how to mentally prepare for that? I guess I’ve never really had to do this before – this is my first job in a new field (IT) after going back to school, and my old field was very seasonal, so there was always a planned end date everyone was working around.

    I love the work I do where I am now, but the environment is dysfunctional, my boss drives me nuts, and I am severely underpaid (I should be making almost twice as much as I do). I stuck it out for a couple of years because we have a cool mission and I’m getting really fantastic experience.

    And yet we do really cool work, and if I leave now there are projects I’ve invested a lot of myself in that will stall out – not because they’re unimportant, but because our team generally fails at transitions and tons of work is lost when people leave. (So if I leave X project 75% finished, everyone will ignore X for a few months, then my boss will decide “hey we need X”, and someone will start it from scratch.)

    It’s going to particularly bad for my role because my coworkers don’t think my work is very interesting, and so they know almost nothing about what I do. They mostly work on sexy cutting-edge bring-in-the-money projects, while my role is less innovative and more “keep things working behind the scenes.”* And even if I leave behind the most amazing documentation ever written, we don’t have a good system for it, so it will be hard for people to find it. (I once asked if I could work on centralizing all our documentation in a format that it would at least be searchable, and my boss told me no, that was a waste of time.)

    I do understand intellectually that this place reaps the chaos that it sows, so as long as I give appropriate notice and do my best to wrap stuff up and leave behind good documentation, it’s not my problem. But it’s still hard to think about leaving my projects at the mercy of people who don’t care about them.

    * hence the username, for those who get the reference.

    1. Blue eagle*

      Oh man, my spouse and I LOVED Babylon 5. One of our favorite sayings was his saying that “Zathras had a difficult life, Zathras will have a difficult death, at least it will be in symmetry.”

      I can commiserate with your dilemma about the unfinished projects as I had similar issues on a previous job. My approach was to prioritize and finish one thing and leave the rest in whatever shape they were. And don’t stress yourself about leaving perfect documentation as either (1) they won’t be able to find it, (2) they will find it but won’t read it and will try to contact you and have you answer questions that are in the documentation or (3) they won’t even bother to look for it and will just go and recreate everything themselves.

      Sorry that your unfinished projects will languish and never be completed, but just remember that your organization will go on without you and won’t even appreciate your gift-wrapping everything before you leave – – – so please don’t waste your time doing it.

      1. Zathras*

        I like the idea of picking one thing to finish, thanks! And that’s a good point about the documentation – I should do as much as is necessary so the information is there if someone does go looking, but not do extra work that no one will care about. I am bad about that sometimes.

        I need to watch Babylon 5 again… it has been a long time! I think this is my favorite Zathras bit:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v79fYnuVzdI

    2. MadStuart*

      …so are you also trained in crisis management?

      I think that if leaving good documentation would make you feel better about abandoning your projects, and you have time to create it, you should do so. Even if no one ever sees it again, it might help you get a sense of closure. But if that’s not possible, I think Blue Eagle has the right of it; at the end of the day, all you can do is finish what can be finished and then move on.

      1. Zathras*

        …so are you also trained in crisis management?

        Yes, but I have no one to talk to. :-P

        I think there is some level of documentation I do need to leave, just so I have things to point to when people inevitably reach out after I’m gone. There is a lot stored in my brain right now that I just haven’t been given the time to properly write down.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Once you have a definitive job you are going to this will ease some what. Right now, not knowing where you are going to land, all there is to think about is what is left behind.

      1) Remind yourself that this very question is part of why you started looking for a job. Your work goes into a black hole and stays there.

      2) You could use one of two methods here:
      Finish up several of the smaller projects and take satisfaction in that. OR
      Push like heck to finish up one of your larger pet projects and take your satisfaction from that.

      Either way you have to decide to be satisfied with your own work.

      3) You could pick the next top 2-3 things on your list and write out the next steps you would have looked at if you stayed. Send it to your boss or other caring coworker for the person who replaces you.

      4) This one sucks. I have typed a few times about how grief is not just for those we have lost through death. It sounds like you have been grieving your own work’s loss of relevance to others for a while now. You could just decide that you realize this has been causing you sorrow right along and their neglect after you leave is more of this same sorrow. Nothing has changed, same stuff, different day.

      Here’s the catch. We go through life collecting up all these random experiences. While the company may waste your efforts for them, YOU won’t. Everything you have done and learned goes into your memory banks. And guess where those memories go when you leave, with YOU. You will probably find yourself drawing on your previous experiences here to do different things at New Place. And for once instead of feeling sad, you will feel pretty spiffy that you knew about X and Y when no one else did. And when the boss says we need ABC, you say “I have done some similar I can do this!”

      While our employers may waste our experiences with them, we tend to reuse, reapply those learning experiences to new situations. This will get better, I promise.

      2. Zathras*

        Thank you so much for this long reply. I especially love #4. I have never thought about this but you are completely right, I am sort of grieving my work’s loss of relevance. With a side dish of mild resentment, because I don’t think it’s as irrelevant as they perceive it to be.

        I think you are also right that once I’m actually headed TO a specific new job, instead of just AWAY from this one, it will be easier.

    5. ..Kat..*

      Keep in mind that if you are severely underpaid, you are also severely under-contributing to your retirement savings. When you are young, contributing to your retirement savings is most important because of compound interest, return on investment being plowed back in so that you get the maximum bang for your buck. Your current job does not value you enough to pay you what you are worth. So any projects that don’t go well after you leave are on them.

      1. Zathras*

        This is an excellent point, thank you. For what it’s worth I am contributing a fair bit to retirement, but I can’t max out my contributions due to prioritizing aggressively paying down my student loans. You’ve reminded me that if I were paid market rate I could do both, and probably have some cash left over to either invest in taxable accounts or save for a house.

  56. Anonycat*

    If I can’t currently afford a suit or blazer, do you all think otherwise having an impeccable appearance- pressed slacks, crisp white button-down, plain or subtly patterned blue tie, nice matching shoes and belt- is good enough for an interview? It’s for a just-above-entry-level library position at a good university.

    1. Anonycat*

      I guess it probably is and there’s not much else I can do, but I’m anxious and need reassurance. I really want this job.

      1. Director of Things*

        Last week, I interviewed 3 candidates for a just-above-entry-level job (though not in library/uni) and only 1 wore a suit. I took note because I haven’t done hiring for an office job in awhile, but it’s not affecting their candidacy at all in my mind. Good luck at your interview!

      2. cookie monster*

        I would not hold that against you. especially for a library position. I think a suit would likely count in high finance or big law, but in general, what you describe is totally acceptable interview wear.

    2. Jessica*

      Hmm, I would chose a colored shirt instead of a white shirt if you HAVE to go without a blazer, because I think a white shirt will look more “unfinished,” like you spilled coffee on your blazer and had to take it off or something. A coordinating shirt and tie would look more polished.
      But is there any way you can borrow a blazer from a friend or family member? Check out consignment shops? I don’t think you need a full suit, but a sportcoat/blazer does communicate a certain level of seriousness that just a dress shirt doesn’t.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        I’m seconding Jessica on borrowing or looking for one at a consignment shop.

        I don’t think it is necessarily something that would be a deal breaker for me if I were the hiring manager if you were otherwise the best candidate, but in my completely different field, all entry level new grads on up the ladder would wear an actual full suit to the interview. Without the jacket, I think the look (with a tie) is more “high school banquet” and communicates that you haven’t fully invested in your career yet.

      2. Lilo*

        Seconding this comment. I think something like a blue would be a smarter choice without a jacket, but I also think trying consignment for a jacket would be a good idea.

      3. Anonycat*

        Yeah, I’m going to check around a few consignment and discount places, but I’m kind of a weird size, so I don’t have much hope. I looked pretty thoroughly last time I had an interview and didn’t have any luck.

        Thank you, though, I’ll look for a blue shirt at the same time! (My current workplace is pretty casual and a lot of my nice stuff has worn out since the last time I had money to spend.)

        1. Helen*

          Something like a vest or sweater vest might also lend more of an “outfit” look, and is more forgiving in size than a blazer.

    3. S.*

      I think that would be just fine. I’ve had a few positions in university libraries and other university departments and this is comparable to what I wear/wore to interviews. Good luck!

    4. Amber Rose*

      It is. Look good and clean and professional, and then focus on nailing the interview. Your possession or lack thereof of a blazer is less important than those two things.

      1. Emily*

        I agree. Make sure your hair looks ok too – not too long/scruffy. Haircuts are pretty cheap.

    5. An Archivist*

      It should be fine. I’ve seen a whole range of academic librarian candidates in the past several years: there are a lot of suits, but not everyone wears one.

    6. Beancounter Eric*

      Do you have Goodwill near you?

      If so, stop by and see what they have.

      Each location is different, and you need to pay attention to wear, fit, etc., but the prices can be outrageously low for lightly/never worn items.

      1. Natalie*

        And if you have multiple Goodwills, check the ones in the richer parts of town first.

    7. Anon today...and tomorrow*

      My husband doesn’t have a suit jacket / blazer either. He has a pair of dress slacks, a button-down dress shirt (blue), tie, and a lightweight pullover dress sweater that he wears over it. He looks very professional and he has worn it to several interviews and work meetings. I’ve worried about this same issue, but am unable to put the funds into the tailoring a suit will need for his body. He has unbelievably broad shoulders and thick arms but has a short leg.
      I think as long as you’re comfortable and are confident about what you’re talking about you’re going to make an impression.

    8. AnotherLibrarian*

      I think this depends so much on where you are geographically. When I worked in the Northwest, this would have been fine, but now that I work in the Deep South, we’ve never had a male candidate come to an interview not wearing a blazer. I don’t know how much this would vary depending on the institution. We are a pretty conservative spot.

      I would add that I don’t judge dress to harshly unless it confirms something else I think is true. So, if I think a candidate seems immature, for example, then their attire can confirm or lessen that impression.

      Best of luck on your interview!

    9. Another Academic Librarian*

      I’ve been on multiple academic library hiring committees in the Northeast, and we expect all of our candidates, male or female, to wear a suit/blazer. Not wearing a jacket probably wouldn’t be a deal breaker, but it would be noticed.

      1. Anonycat*

        This is a paraprofessional, library assistant position, and I don’t have my masters. Does that change your mind any?

        1. Another Academic Librarian*

          I have been present for (but not involved in) interviews for a couple of library assistant positions, and I don’t think any of the candidates have worn a suit the way a librarian candidate would. But I think all of them have been female. I don’t know what the expectation would be for a male candidate (if you are male), but I would guess that what you described would be fine assuming you just can’t get your hands on a blazer.

    10. HannahS*

      I think a nice cardigan can take the place of a blazer, particularly with a coloured shirt.

    11. JulieBulie*

      It’s springtime, so to me it doesn’t seem weird if you skip the jacket.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Check the churches in your area. Some churches have shops that sell work clothes CHEAP.
      One place here you can get a pair of pants for $2 and a shirt for $1. Another place is giving a way pants this weekend. The clothes are NICE. Google or talk with friends to see if you can find anything that way.

    13. Zathras*

      This is optional depending on how tight your financial situation is, but if you end up picking up a blazer on the cheap, it can be worth getting it fitted to you. It doesn’t have to be expensive – I got my suit jacket adjusted at the local dry cleaners for under $20 I think. They adjusted the sleeves to fit and did some magic to the bust part that made it actually fit instead of sagging awkwardly where I didn’t fill it up.

    14. Chaordic One*

      I would certainly check out some used clothing stores and see if you couldn’t find something there. A male friend of mine found a very nice fitting blazer at a local church thrift store. Not perfect, but passable.

      I’ve also seen male applicants show up at interviews wearing a long-sleeved botton-front sweater instead of a blazer. I thought it looked OK.

  57. NonnyNon*

    I’ve hit BEC stage with my coworker because he is constantly talking politics with everyone else. My boss refuses to shut down the “conversations” (which are really heated debates/arguments- sometimes reaching the point of yelling) and takes part in them himself. I’ve gotten my coworker to stop trying to involve me, but my office is so small that I can hear him talking to everyone else and because of my job I can’t always wear headphones to drown him out.

    If anyone has advice for how to just get through my day that would be great, although I don’t know what’s left to do that I haven’t already tried. It’s reached the point where I’m seriously considering leaving this job once I hit two years in December because of my coworker’s political ranting (and if I could leave sooner I would, it’s become that unbearable).

    1. Anon today...and tomorrow*

      Can you wear one ear bud on reasonable volume? I have been doing that for my job. It’s really allowed me to focus less on the blood boiling conversations going on around me, while still leaving me alert enough to hear the phone, the door bell, other co-workers, etc.

  58. AvonLady Barksdale*

    I am now exactly 5 months in to my new gig, and I am finally starting to feel good about it. The job itself has always been good, but now I feel useful (I have my own tasks, whereas before, it was a lot of doing things with my boss’s guidance) and busy. People from other departments are coming directly to me for things. I’ve also experienced a ton of “pulling back the curtain” this week, and while I’m shocked by some of what I’ve heard (it’s not scandalous, just totally different from what I assumed or expected), it also makes me feel so much better about my own abilities.

    I asked this question once, a looong time ago, but I want to ask it again: when did you feel you really hit your groove or stride at your current job?

    1. Manders*

      Yay!

      I think six months is roughly the normal time when you’ve absorbed enough technical information and knowledge of the institution to really hit your stride. I also think it’s right around the time that everyone stops trying to impress and teach the new person, so you start seeing how your boss handles tricky situations like delegating work and dealing with complicated problems.

    2. Emily*

      I think about 3-4 months. Part of that is figuring out relationships with colleagues/management.

      Personally, I had done similar work before, and that probably helped.

    3. JulieBulie*

      About three months for me to get to a place of comfort, but more like six months to feel really confident, and a year to feel as though I have nothing to worry about.

      Funny story: Some years ago I started a new job, and people were always telling me that my predecessor did this and my predecessor did that, and I was feeling insecure and getting damn sick of hearing about all of my predecessor’s wondrous talents.

      But after I left the company, the same people were telling my replacement “Julie did this, Julie did that” and it drove him crazy.

      It sounds to me as though you’ve already reached the point where AvonLady Barksdale will be the person whose eventual replacement will get tired of hearing about. :-)

    4. Zathras*

      I think it’s pretty normal to feel like you completely suck at your job for at little while when you are new. You don’t, or at least if you do it’s understandable/expected – it’s part of getting up to speed. The time frame can be shorter if you have had a similar position before, but there is always at least a few weeks of feeling unsettled.

      Many people are also their own worst critic. There can be a lot of dumb mistakes, things you had to look up, things that took longer than they might have if you were more experienced, etc. which you mentally record as “that time I sucked at my job.” But really nobody else you work with even noticed, because you did all that on your own time.

  59. aebhel*

    I have a managing challenge that I’m hoping commenters could shed some light on here. I’m the acting director of a mid-sized library, and one of our pages has become… a problem.

    She’s always been a bit overbearing, but recently she’s started acting as though she’s in charge of the pages (she isn’t, and I’ve told her as much). She dislikes how one of the other pages does his work, so she’s started redoing his work and consequently leaving hers undone (there’s nothing wrong with his work; it’s not as exacting as hers, but it’s perfectly acceptable, and frankly I’d rather have it done than perfect). She’s been trying to boss the maintenance guy around as well, and taking complaints to other people who can’t fix them instead of me, so I end up hearing about them secondhand if at all. I’m pretty sure it’s not a personal thing; she got along with me just fine until I was in charge, and she acted like this with our previous director as well. I think she just has a serious issue with authority, and also she’s a lot older than me so she kind of tunes me out. This was a problem with our previous director as well.

    I can’t actually fire her, since I’m not technically the director. I want to have a sit-down with her, but I could use some scripts if anyone has them.

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I think I’d address it as it comes up. “Jane, you’re not finishing your own work because you’re getting overly involved in Wakeen’s. If he comes to me and needs a hand, I’ll let you know, but moving forward, I need you to focus exclusively on your own tasks.”

      “Jane, when you get feedback, I need you to bring them right to me, not to Fergus. He’s not able to address them because that’s outside his set of responsibilities, and I have been hearing them second or thirdhand, which doesn’t work for me. Moving forward, complaints need to come to me first. Can you do that?”

      “Jane, the maintenance staff is managed by Fergus. Moving forward, I need you to refrain from giving them direction, because you don’t have supervisory responsibilities and it puts them in a difficult spot. Can you do that?”

      And then repeat as necessary. And by “as necessary,” I mean, “Maybe twice before you have a sitdown with the director and express your concerns with him,” because this is a performance issue.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        I think a lot of Irritable Scientist’s language is good. I’m going to take on faith that you can’t fire this person (though I might seriously confirm that this is true, because as fposte said below, this is a page position and that seems off to me).

        I would document, document, document what is going on which may mean following up discussions with emails, recording every-time her work is not completed and every time you speak with her. In short, you want to build the case that she should be fired if her work does not improve when the new Director appears.

        And, on that note, do you know the hiring timeline? Because if you are going to be in your position for longer than a year you may need to go to the city (once your ducks are in a row) and ask for permission to let her go. I’m assuming you’re at a public library, but if you’re at an academic library, see who your dean is and speak with them.

        Lastly, I’d speak to the other page who she’s bossing around and to the maintenance guy. They both need to know you know and you have their backs. This can become a moral issue if you let it fester for too long.

        1. aebhel*

          I’m hopeful that they’ll have a new director in within three or four months, but as it’s a public library and we hire through civil service, it’s anyone’s guess, really. :/

          I’ve been documenting, and I’ll definitely speak to the other people she’s been bossing around; I didn’t even think about how that would impact morale, but that’s a really good point, thank you.

    2. Temperance*

      What does the director think of this issue? Have you looped him/her in?

      Not quite the same, but last year, I found out that my shitty intern was trying to assign his lower-level tasks to my good intern. What I did was have a chat with my good intern first, to let him know that he was doing a great job, and that he should let me know if anyone was trying to assign work to him. He could use me as the excuse (“Temperance manages my workload”). Afterward, I had a meeting with Shitty Intern, and told him that I needed him to do his work, and that there was a reason that Good Intern had different assignments.

      In your shoes, I would talk to the page, and the maintenance guy, and give them the same spiel. After that, I would sit down with the difficult page, and ask her what’s going on. After she gives you some BS answer, which I’m sure she will, you should bluntly reinforce that a.) she’s not getting her own work done, b.) she shouldn’t be assigning work or correcting the work of others, and c.) she needs to bring all complaints and issues directly to *you*.

    3. fposte*

      Page-off! Page-off! Page-off! (Okay, probably not viable, but how often does a real-life opportunity present itself?)

      I don’t see any reason why you can’t fire her; she’s a page, not a branch manager, so it’s not like you need board approval. However, you can still talk to her: “Redoing Fergus’s work isn’t acceptable and has to stop; attempting to direct Mr. Maintenance isn’t acceptable and needs to stop. You’re getting paid not just to perform page tasks but to get along with other people, and right now that portion of your work isn’t acceptable, and that’s putting your job in danger. Can you commit to focusing on your own work rather than directing other people’s?”

      I didn’t include the communicating-with-you thing, because I don’t know what formal structures or policies you have in place to make that communication possible or to make clear what should happen. (A lot of libraries wouldn’t have pages saying much to the director on a regular basis, after all.) So if there aren’t formal policies or structures, that’s a harder row to hoe; one possibility, since it sounds like a small facility, is for you to institute regular communication on your own, while another is that there’s a *kind* of communication we’re talking about and that you can make clear should always come directly to you.

      1. aebhel*

        We’re fairly small, so pretty much all communication goes directly to the top; the board has asked me not to make any personnel changes unless there’s a dire need, and they don’t see this as a dire need. Unfortunately. I’m just trying to keep her more or less in line until someone else takes over.

        A lot of it is just complaining about things, but some of the things she complains about are issues that (a) should be addressed and (b) that I don’t know about until someone else tells me. I may just try to institute a regular meeting with her, it’s just keeping her on topic that’s the trouble.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          She privately feels that no one is steering the ship, so therefore she feels she must steer the ship.

          I would go back to the board again and tell them because of the persistent nature of this problem it is escalating to “dire”. She is bossing people around (i.e. usurping authority), correcting work that does not need to be corrected (i.e. wasting payroll), refusing to take corrective steps (insubordination) and she was the same with the previous director. Point out that it is not fair to dump this on the new director and make her start at square one when the description and extent of the problem has been established. You might be able to motivate the board by letting them know their new director would have a better launch if she did not have to deal with this.

          As far as the page herself, I would say something like, “Jane, you and I discussed X behavior and we talked about why it was not acceptable. You agreed to stop the behavior. I see it is still going on and I want to know why.” Then stop talking and look at her with expectation on your face, the “what’s up here?’ type of look. Don’t fill in that uncomfortable silence with your own words.

          If she has trouble staying on topic maybe print out a list of topics you need to cover and put the list on the table. I would also add that to the list of things she needs to work on. Be sure to mention to the board that you have tried to get her turned around but since she can’t stay on topic you are not sure how much of your message is being absorbed.

          1. Troutwaxer*

            She privately feels that no one is steering the ship, so therefore she feels she must steer the ship.

            Bingo! I suspect her morale is low, probably because she is very sensitive to the lack of direction – no director – from above; she sees that things which need to be addressed are not being addressed and tries to address them in her own way, but she doesn’t understand that what she’s doing is making matters worse. Short term solution is that you need to talk to her, long term solution is that stuff needs to be addressed.

  60. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

    So, a weird problem. I’m a contractor working in a government office, but not employed by the government. I provide onsite support for a bunch of different programs, but since last August have been working basically exclusively on one project for one program. Aside from core hours, I am permitted to manage my own time and schedule, and occasionally choose to work from home, as any computer with Word is sufficient for what I’m doing. I also generally work an hour or two when I wake up at 5 or after the kid goes to bed, attend to breakfast and kid logistics, and generally arrive between 8 and 9 and leave between 3 and 4. All of this is with top-level approval from my superiors and from the Boss Client. At the moment, I really don’t need to onsite 100% of the time, because 100% of my time is going to one program and I could do it anywhere.

    Another client, subordinate to Boss Client and who has never had a tasker for me, has been making annoying comments to me about “Sleep late this morning,” or “Knocking off early, eh?” or “Take a mental health day yesterday?” that clearly have an edge to them. Obviously, the flexibility of my schedule is bothering him and he wonders why I’m in and out at odd times. He’s really not owed an answer or justification. I’ve been replying, “Oh, did you have a tasker for me? I’m always reachable at my corporate address” but what I’d really like to say is “You’re not responsible for managing my time, so find something else to monitor.” But he’s a client, not a coworker. Is there a way to push back gently on this?

    1. Myrin*

      Can you just be very direct about it without being snarky? Something like “I realise that you keep mentioning this, what’s up with that?” or similar?

      I have to say that in general – and maybe that’s just me – while I agree that it’s none of their business, I tend to give a truthful one sentence explanation anyway. Not because I think they’re owed it but because I’ve found that it’s the most likely thing to make them stop (and can also have the additional satisfaction of seeing their smug, righteous drain out of them and morph into confusion and maybe even embarrassment). I feel like obfuscating answers is just going to egg people like this on more which I definitely don’t want, so a simple “I actually work from home” or “I need to travel a lot for work” is what I personally like to do.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        Is there an equivalent for resting bitch face for tone of voice? Because I have it, at least when I’m shooting for “level but direct.” I’m just worried that it’ll come out with the edge of annoyance I actually feel towards him.

        1. Parenthetically*

          Ooh I have it too! Can you project some curiosity into your tone? I find that warms my voice enough that it seems less confrontational.

          2. fposte*

            I also find that the note you end on matters more than the rest of the sentence, so you can start out fairly brusque but catch yourself and raise your pitch or soften your tone at the end of the sentence.

            1. Parenthetically*

              Definitely true for me. One of my goals this year is to lecture less and collaborate/troubleshoot/problem-solve more with my students and I do catch myself mid-scold and swap my tone, and it’s pretty amazing to see the body language change.

          3. AnonAcademic*

            A cheerful “why do you ask?” tends to effectively fluster some busybodies.

    2. Kowalski! Options!*

      Quick Q: Are you contracting directly with the government department yourself or going through a company? I don’t know where American law stands with this – I can’t imagine it’s that different (cf. Vizcaino vs. Microsoft, 1996) from Canadian law – but in Canada, unless certain aspects of the work schedule have been decided in advance, he’s inferring that he thinks you should be subject to an employer-employee relationship, which is strictly verboten. If you’re contracting directly with the government office, I’d tell him that the terms under which your work is being performed allow you to have a flexible schedule; and if you’re with a company that is working as the main contractor, give your team a heads-up about this and then have a word with the contracting officer or technical authority at the government department and let them know that this is going on. Said subordinate may not realize that he’s hinting at something (potentially) illegal.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        It’s through a company, my employer, and I hadn’t at all considered this angle. If he gets super aggressive about it, I might take it up with the COR, with whom I already have a relationship as the task order manager. That’s kind of a big handle to pull, though, for what I suspect can be resolved with a simple discussion with him and maybe his boss.

        1. Kowalski! Options!*

          Yeah, it might be escalating things too much, but here at the Ministry of Teapot Purchasing, hinting at employer-employee relationships is drilled into people (even admin assistants) from Day One as A Conversation You Simply Do Not Have With Contractors.)

        2. CAA*

          Yeah, going to the COR to complain about another govvie making snide comments about work schedules is probably overkill and unfortunately will probably end up making you look like a drama llama. Can you say something like “you do know that I don’t work in this office full time, right?” Maybe he really doesn’t know that you have a flex schedule. Also, most U.S. federal jobs like the one you’re describing do have flex schedules with liberal remote work and every other Friday off. Is he on a more formal 8 to 5 work week, or does he just think you should be?

        3. Katie the Fed*

          I would try first telling the busybody “I actually have an agreement in place to work from home sometimes.”

          If it continues, definitely take it up with your site lead/COR. Our COR would rip me a new one if I was talking to a contractor about hours without going through him.

    3. Roman Holiday*

      This is one of the times when “return awkward to sender” is totally appropriate. You can say something like, “You seem to make a lot of comments about my schedule, do you have some concerns I should know about?” or “Boss Client and I have an approved schedule, do you have any questions I can answer?”

      Once people like this have to justify their nosiness/snarkiness, then I find they usually back off.

    4. jamlady*

      Haha I had this issue last week. My office is a little more… Intense… Than most offices, so my response was basically “I have a flex schedule per Lucifer’s approval – if you have an issue with my whereabouts, take it up with him”.

      No one questions Lucifer.

      I think if you want this person to stop, it’s easiest to just be blunt (but polite). No, they’re not owed an explanation, but the comments likely aren’t going to stop unless you give them a reason to stop. Though in an ideal world they would just keep to themselves (plus, it’s normal for contractors to be in and out – we don’t have the same scheduling requirements as agency employees and the majority of them don’t even know what we’re working on so they don’t even think about it usually).

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        “No one questions Lucifer.”

        Quite, really.

    5. Lilo*

      This is so bizarre because a huge chunk (maybe majority but if not significant plurality) of government employees are on flex schedules. Compare DC metro on a Wednesday to metro on a Friday for example. How is this guy not used to flex schedules?

      “I am on a flex schedule. If you have any questions about my availability please contact [boss].”

  61. ann perkins*

    Lately boss & grand boss have been telling me how I’m a rock star and so valuable etc, and while that is nice to hear, they aren’t DOING anything about it, so now when they tell me things like that, I say thank you and change the subject. Tired of having convos that go nowhere.

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      My feeling is that when they say “You’re so valuable, you’re a rock star,” the “…but we’re not going to give you a raise this year and we want you to feel appreciated so maybe you won’t bail on us for a 30% salary bump” is silent.

      Those silent letters are always tricky.

    3. Trix*

      Yep those conversations are obnoxious.
      “You’re amazing! This work is fantastic! You’re the absolute best at what you do!”
      “Cool story, can you please stop underpaying me then?”
      *Crickets*

      One of the main reasons I’m excited to start my new job on Monday with a 23% raise.

    4. ..Kat..*

      Are you asking for a raise after they tell you this? Obviously, you want to say ‘thank you ‘ first and have a nice segue.

  62. DropTheDatabase*

    Rant re: workplace politics

    Workplace politics suck. I work in the IT division of a large state university. My OldDept had made an agreement with my NewDept several months ago regarding data access. They reiterated their commitment to this agreement several times, even as recently as two weeks ago in a meeting. Well yesterday it turns out they just have to have this particular data set RIGHT NOW and it’s HIGH PRIORITY and SOME HIGHER UP needs it. So we can’t give the data to them in the way we agreed upon. We did compromise and say we could do some file dumps, but now they have broken the agreement and are going directly to the source, which is what we’re trying to avoid because data governance on our campus is non-existent. We are actually implementing a data governance program now – and OldDept was the one that sponsored it! But now they are violating their own data governance principles and the agreement with us because they can’t say no to the higher up.

    What really annoys me is that they are then going to go around spew across campus that NewDept is too slow, stonewalls everyone, etc etc, when OldDept is the ones who are throwing all rules and agreements out the window because they can’t plan things well. I left OldDept precisely because of this mentality – inability to be realistic about resources; inability to set boundaries and communicate; doing things half-assed just for speed; the list goes on. My NewDept is doing their best to actually be organized and thorough and do things right, so yeah that will be a little slower. But of course it’s going to come off that we’re bitter and spiteful and won’t help people (despite the fact that we agreed to a compromise to get them the data they needed in files right away). So yeah. Sucktitude.

  63. CatCat*

    There was an interesting op-ed in the NY Times yesterday about non-compete agreements. Basically, the writer says non-competes cause wages to stagnate. As such, workers stagnate to the detriment of both the workers and the companies that employ the workers. Entrepreneurship also stagnates to the detriment of building competitive industries.

    “Companies Compete but Won’t Let Their Workers Do the Same” – https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/opinion/noncompete-agreements-workers.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

  64. Very anon*

    Just found out we’re going into a merger and my job role is to stay the same but how I’ll be compensated won’t and I’m going to have to spearhead a fight about it and I’m not happy and I’m exhausted and ugh.

    Basically they’re wanting myself and my colleagues to go from exempt salaried to non exempt hourly and have provided no information how that will work and we already work 9+ hours/day so how they think we suddenly can do our job we already aren’t getting to everything in 8 hours IDK.

    1. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

      This happened to me in November, and I wish I could tell you it went well. Unfortunately it’s made work a living hell and we’ve already lost a couple of team members because of it (I am looking myself). It’s put morale in the toilet because we’ve lost all of our flexibility – no more manage our own time, working from home, eating lunch as our desks, etc. You have my utmost sympathy.

    2. Princess Carolyn*

      It might be that they’re planning to pay overtime as needed – or if that’s not their current plan, they may figure that out when they get things set up. Three of my five post-college jobs have been non-exempt hourly and they’ve all been fine with 5-10 hours of overtime in a week.

    3. CAA*

      Are you possibly misclassified as exempt in your current role? Generally it doesn’t make sense for an employer to move someone from exempt to non-exempt and keep them doing the same work unless they shouldn’t have been exempt in the first place. If your work qualifies as exempt under the FLSA and your state’s laws, then that’s a good point to make in the argument.

      If it doesn’t qualify, then the only thing to argue over is your hourly rate. Try for your current weekly salary divided by 35. You are losing flexibility and you want them to pay you extra to compensate for that loss. They may want to set your hourly rate to your current salary divided by 45 to accommodate for some overtime, so you need to start at a higher number than what you make now, knowing you may end up negotiating back down to something closer to your current pay. Another thing you could consider is filing a wage claim for all the overtime you should have earned while your previous employer illegally classified you as exempt.

      1. OP*

        I’m classified correctly, but the merger is with a company that has set job tiers and titles and we’re being put into one they consider non-exempt. I don’t really get it, but whatever.

        There are some bigger issues going on too (like they didn’t tell us the payroll schedule, etc), but I talked to my boss earlier today and am feeling a little more comfortable with what is going on. Part of it is they just don’t know what direction our department will go in as our dept doesn’t exist where we’re going. It’s kind of all a muddle, which is not surprising.

        1. Windchime*

          If your job is staying the same, I don’t think they can just reclassify you due to some arbitrary structural tiers. If you are correctly classified as salaried exempt and your job is staying exactly the same, then you should remain salaried exempt. At least, that’s how I understand it.

          1. Joshua*

            US law is actually only concerned about who is allowed to be considered exempt, because it is exempt workers who can (legally) be expected to work additional hours without additional compensation. Companies are allowed to consider all their workers as non-exempt and pay them all overtime if the company so wishes. For example, I know some engineers who would very likely be considered exempt by legal standards and in most companies, but their company still pays them overtime whenever they work over 40 hours because they are so in demand that the company pays overtime as a perk to the engineers.

  65. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    I didn’t wind up getting the job I interviewed for a couple of weeks ago, but in retrospect I think I may have dodged a bullet. In the phone interview the hiring manager made it sound like excessive overtime (60+ hours) only happens where there’s a crisis, but the feeling I got from the 5 individuals I interviewed with is that basically there’s ALWAYS a crisis. One person said, “I love the people I work with – they really make the 70-80 hour weeks worth it!”

    It’s a fantastic company with tons of flexibility and the pay would have been a 10K salary increase, but I’m coosing to think that the universe is trying to do me a favor.

    1. SophieChotek*

      70-80 hours worth it! I am working about 65-70 hours right now…I can’t imagine trying to add 10 more!

    2. CrazyEngineerGirl*

      I just… I’ve just never worked with anyone, ANYONE, I like enough to make 70-80 hour work weeks worth it.

      1. Windchime*

        I don’t know how people can function, long-term, on those kinds of hours. 8 hours a day is more than enough for me.

    3. AMD*

      Bless those people who made those comments, thus clueing you in to how bad the job was without risking their own.

  66. MLiz*

    Huge Company In My Field wanted to make a hiring decision at the end of this week. Considering that now it is the end of the workday where I am, I guess this means that next week I will get a rejection letter. I am…not even that mad, in retrospect I know the interview was pretty bad on my part. I wasn’t even nervous at the interview, but I think I wanted it too much and made a few grievous errors I haven’t made in years. I’ll learn, I’ll go back, maybe they’ll take me then. (I know the tenor is companies often need longer to make decisions, but I have my doubts this is the case here, Huge Company In My Field has a reputation as far as that is concerned.) Although this was a once in a lifetime decision and I knew that. Bummer.

    This also means my best shot at a salary that will take care of some financial difficulties is done for and I’ll have to go back to be paid below market value since I’m coming from a situation where I’m currently not employed. Ugh.

    Also though, and this is what really gets to me, my interviewer seemed super annoyed about the thank you note! I sent it the day after the interview, said thank you and I’d really thought points X and Y we touched on were very interesting and that I was still interested and received back, “I told you we’d make a decision at the end of week Z.” (not verbatim). I was really taken aback at this. Thank you notes might not be entirely the norm here yet, but I know they’re being recommended and this is a Huge Company (internationally speaking), so this can’t be the first time this person received one. This still puzzles me.

    1. Lily in NYC*

      Whoa! That is really weird; I bet the person totally misread your note and thought you were asking for a follow-up.

      1. MLiz*

        It really wasn’t worded in a way that it could have been, but perhaps I caught her at a bad moment who knows.

    2. JulieBulie*

      Just imagine what it would be like to work for/with that person, who will misread and misinterpret every email you ever send, and assume the worst of you when you are trying to be polite. Argh.

      I doubt that this is really a once in a lifetime thing, as long as that company stays in business, right? Maybe the next time you apply, you’ll feel more confident, and you’ll interview with someone who isn’t a douchebag! Meanwhile, there will probably be opportunities at places you’ve never even heard of.

      Or, you might even get the job. Then you can send that person an even more confusing thank-you note!

      2. MLiz*

        Thank you for your kind words!

        Company will stay in business certainly and I was already blown away by the fact that they wanted to interview me (I would not have expected to have enough experience for the position but doesn’t hurt to try!), so there’s that. But my field is limited at the location and positions are few and far in between, so I got really lucky.

        I doubt I’ll get the job, but your answer was very encouraging. So thanks, really.

  67. anon332*

    Funny this came up after the post on applying for a position at Old Job.

    Someone left us about 3 months ago (hourly, entry-level). She quit on her own. She was dropping hints that she wouldn’t be able to stay because of life circumstances, but gave no notice. She vaguely asked for another reduction in hours (she already went from 35 to 30 to 25 and wanted to go to 20) and when that was rejected, at the end of her shift she told us she wasn’t coming back.

    The sky is falling because we’re way behind.

    We still don’t have her replacement, but we already got the ball rolling on that. Yes, getting entry-level people is a huge PITA, and we work with a staffing agency.

    Yesterday I heard she asked for her job back. But we don’t want her back. She worked very slow when she was here, made a ton of mistakes, was too stubborn to change her bad habits, and she spent a ton of time on personal business (and other behavioral problems). We didn’t fire her because firing someone is a huge pain with a lot of documentation, and getting a replacement is not guaranteed. I didn’t agree with that and still don’t, but I wasn’t calling the shots. We are all still glad she’s gone, even though we’re ~ 25% behind.

    Of course, we’ll have to continue to wait for a replacement, and then train said person, and there’s a leaning curve. But we do have some more input into the hiring process (the good part of this process becoming more of a PITA), and we’re trying to get a bit more specific title and job description so hopefully we won’t have another bad fit.

    Moral of the story: even if you made the decision to leave, it doesn’t mean Old Job wants you back.

    (Oh, and after the way she quit, my boss didn’t even give her a response.)

    1. Lily in NYC*

      I love karma! We had a guy leave in a not great-way. He gave two -weeks notice but decided to take those two weeks off. He came back on his last day and didn’t bother going to any of his wrap-up meetings and didn’t clean out his office. I had to clean it and I just threw everything he left behind into a dumpster. Everyone was so pissed at how he handled everything. He ended up hating his new job and tried to come back. He was able to come up to our area (someone let him in) and my boss just walked into his office and shut the door and wouldn’t even speak to him. And then the guy came to me and asked me for all the stuff he left in his office months earlier! What nerve! I laughed in his face and told him to check the landfill on Staten Island.

  68. Ann Furthermore*

    This week I hit the 6 month mark with my new job. It’s been going very well and I have zero regrets about leaving my last company, where I’d been for almost 12 years and which had become a horrible place to work with a backstabbing and toxic environment. Other than one minor blip that I posted about a couple weeks ago, regarding being concerned about my co-worker’s excessive travel and wondering if I’d be in the same position at some point, which I talked through with my boss, it’s been a great change and I’ve been challenged and given the opportunity to do many new things. My boss has made it clear that she’s been very happy with the work I’m doing, and she’s a great person to work for. Zero percent BS, and very open and honest.

    I had lunch with a former coworker last week, and things at my former company haven’t changed a bit. The project I was working on when I left, which is still moving forward, is set to go live over 4th of July weekend. My old boss thought it was a great time to do it because, “We’ll have an extra day!” due to the holiday. Never mind that everyone’s plans will be shot to hell. Her husband is an ass, and she’s not too keen on spending time at home with him, so I guess that’s why she thinks it’s such a fabulous idea. Had I stayed, that would have been at least the 3rd time that one of my holiday weekends had been blown out of the water. I am SO glad I’m not there anymore. I really miss my friends there, but other than that, I’m very happy that place is in my rear view mirror.

  69. Not Today Satan*

    Hiring pet peeve: I am in the middle of a search for a regular, somewhat low level 40 hour office job. It is mind boggling to me how many candidates send resumes with a huge emphasis on entrepreneurship, their businesses that they own, etc. Like… I need someone at least semi-invested in this job, your dedication to your own business isn’t exactly a selling point. It’s also depressing because a lot of them kind of seem duped by self help type speakers, but that’s another issue.

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      It’s really tone-deaf, because it sends the message that they want to be their own boss, not work in the bottom rungs of a hierarchy. Not exactly making the case they’ll be a committed employee.

    2. AnonAcademic*

      There’s a reason such “entrepreneurs” are not applying to be the CEO of a start up. Unfortunately there are a lot of MLM affiliated motivational speakers who prey on people’s gullibility and convince them that being a commission based sales rep for someone else’s company is the same as running a small business.

    3. Clever Name*

      Someone also apparently told these folks to grow their business by following people on twitter to get follow-backs. I get so many new followers like this and I very rarely follow them back because I carefully curate my twitter feed around a topic (not entrepreneurialship).

    4. Chaordic One*

      I would guess that these people are attempting to demonstrate that they are capable of working independently and (unsuccessfully) trying to show transferable skills and versatility. They might also be attempting to show that they can understand “big picture” ideas about your office and business.

      I don’t know that I would write them off completely (unless of course, you have better applicants with more appropriate responses to your recruitment efforts). Still, it is very disappointing and frustrating.

  70. Flailing Fish*

    Is it worth it to take a job when the vast majority of the Glassdoor reviews are negative and mention management screaming at employees? For context, I’m graduating in 3 weeks, and this is only the second place I’ve been interviewing with. I also know I will be leaving the job in two years to move back home. I would basically do the job to get experience in this field as they hire right out of college and most people in this field don’t. I also would have a solid support system as it’s the city I went to undergrad in. I haven’t been offered the job yet, but based on the reviews and interviews from Glassdoor, it sounds like I have a good shot. Any advice is appreciated!

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I mean, you’re graduating and you need a job. You could take the job and basically keep right on job-hunting, knowing that you’d probably have to peace out in 6 months and accepting that you could come off as a bit of a jobhopper. I don’t think anybody can take getting screamed at by loons for 2 years, though, so I’d be planning my exit strategy from day one. But unless you have other reasonable prospects, graduating without a job is a pretty tenuous place to be these days.

    2. Not Today Satan*

      It depends on how desperate you are/what your financial situation is, but I’d avoid it if I could. Spending the majority of your waking hours at a toxic place certainly has its toll.

    3. Natalie*

      I wouldn’t. I’m not terribly interested in being screamed at at work ever, much less semi-contiuously for two years. This kind of treatment *will* get in your head and have negative effects on you. Unless you are actually destitute/weeks away from homelessness, keep looking.

      TBH, you’ll probably always have a good shot as a company that’s abusive to its employees is very rarely a picky hirer. So if nothing has banned out in a month or two, I’m sure you can reconsider.

    4. Hallie*

      I’d try to imagine it–what if for two years of your degree, one or more of your teachers had just yelled at you a lot? If that’s something you can stomach, maybe it’ll work…that’d take a toll on most people though, I’d think.

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      Avoid it if you can! I wound up working for a company like that, right out of college. It was miserable and within months of working there, I was crying after work almost every day and having suicidal thoughts. I’m not saying that is DEFINITELY what could happen to you, but please… keep your options open.

      1. Windchime*

        Yes to all this. Even if you aren’t the direct victim of the screamer, it’s still very stressful and upsetting to witness that kind of verbal abuse. I’ve been away from my verbally abusive workplace for 6 months and am just now starting to feel OK. It took a horrible toll on my body and my spirit.

    6. Flailing Fish*

      Thank you so much for all the responses! I’m not that in dire of need of a job, just need one so I don’t completely drain my savings and am out of work for several months. My mom is willing to help me out for a couple of months and I’ll be living with my girlfriend and she’ll understand so I’m lucky there. I have another interview with a better place so here’s to hoping I don’t have to get stuck there. Thank you again for all the advice!

  71. Jabes*

    Warning: hemming and hawing about timeline for “following up” below!

    I’m interviewing for public school teaching jobs. A week ago the department head told me “you are our finalist for this position. The committee thinks you will be a great fit” and I should get an email “in the next couple of days” from the principal’s secretary to schedule the “final interview.” Obviously I’m not treating this as a done deal until I accept an offer but I think it seems good.

    But, “a couple of days” has become a week. On Thursday (4 business days after the last email) I sent a polite “do you have a sense of the timeline” email to the department head who responded and said I should get that scheduling email from the principals secretary “today” (Thursday). Thursday ended without an email. I am not going to write back again today, don’t worry, but can I write back again ever? The process is now out of the hands of the person I’ve been in touch with (department head) and in the hands of a busy stranger (principals secretary) so I don’t know who I’d even nudge at this point if I nudge again. And the positivity of the language makes me feel like I’m on the path to a job offer, and I’m not withdrawing any other applications or canceling interviews or anything, but can I relax a bit in my job searching effort?

    1. Muriel Heslop*

      Public school teacher here. May is an incredibly busy time in schools. Our department likes to do most of our interviewing either before then or when school is out because with state testing, end of year events, ARDs/transitions…May is swamped. I would follow up one more time in another week or so but also keep interviewing. If they have told you to expect an email for a final interview, I think that is different than annoying them by checking the status of the hire. Getting in with the principal is going to be more challenging to schedule.

      Good luck!

      1. Jabes*

        Thank you! I wouldn’t think twice if the email from the department head had said to expect an email in the next week, but the “couple of days” language followed by “today” set my hopes up.

        And, the whole hiring process has been long, for sure – sent my application in late March, first interview in early April, second interview (demo lesson) last week, so I get the impression they are prioritizing wrapping this all up.

        1. New Bee*

          This is SBAC testing time for many schools, so delays are to be expected. Don’t sweat it and good luck! I’m trying to get back in the classroom myself. :-)

  72. SuperAnonForThis*

    Oh man. This week our CEO and CFO (who were both sons of my company’s founder–though the company is now public) were kicked out by our board this week. This is my first corporate job, so my first experience with abrupt leadership change on this scale. It’s scary and feels very uncertain. It’s especially hard, because although we’re a large company, because of the founding family’s close involvement with the business, the company runs a lot like a family business. (Both the good and the bad things about that). To top it off, we’re in an industry that’s highly politically charged at the moment. Any advice for weathering this kind of change?

    1. CAA*

      My best advice is to do excellent work and keep your ears open, but avoid contributing to or passing along any gossip.

      You are presumably at a pretty low level in the organization, which is really the best place to be when there’s a lot of turmoil at the top. Accept that change is going to happen. There will be new people above you and you may have to do some parts of your job differently in the future, but new opportunities can also open up when there’s a big management shake-up. Also keep in mind that if things become unbearable, you have already successfully gotten this job and can get another one if you need to.

    2. AlsoSuperAnonForThis*

      I think I can relate to you with this! I work at an organization that had a CEO change following a local scandal that he was involved in. Most of the department heads under him left as well since they were devoted to him and his leadership style. In a few short years we’ve now had two other CEO’s and numerous department heads under them leading our team. It’s been chaos (at times our team had no department heads!) but things are finally settling down.

      My saving grace was that I am low-level employee and my manager above me has not changed in the years I’ve been here. Our team survived under what I would characterize as excellent (frequent!) communication, honesty, and a little bit of attitude (in the “get things done!” sense). It helped a lot that my manager was honest when she had no idea what was going on and she really stepped up as a leader by working around the missing positions we often faced. If you’re in a low-level position like me, don’t be afraid to speak up when you need something– it’s probably more overwhelm than negligence when something is overlooked. I found that to be true, anyway… it also helped to be more forgiving than normal.

      I also stopped telling strangers who I worked for in polite conversation while my org was still controversial locally. Saved me a lot of stress debating strangers! Just another thing to keep in mind since you said the industry is politically charged. I tell people now because I’m proud to work here and our reputation has improved substantially, but there’s no shame in protecting yourself during an already stressful time.

  73. AnitaJ*

    “Parting gift” for my supervisor?

    My wonderful, amazing, supportive supervisor has guided me to another role within our firm, and I will soon have a new supervisor. This person has truly been a mentor to me over the years, and I want to give them a small token of my appreciation (in addition to a heartfelt thank you note, of which they have received many from me).

    Flowers? Booze? Food? Accessories for their pet? (A thing I know they like)

    Any and all ideas are welcome.

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      Go with what you know they like. If they like wine, get a bottle in the $20 range. If they like pet things, get something cute.

    2. Emily S.*

      For that great of a supervisor, I suggest something functional.

      Ideas: A really nice pen. A handsome photo frame for his/her desk. A good mug/thermos.

      Or perhaps a magazine subscription that’s relevant to his/her hobbies/interests.

      1. Casuan*

        One can never have enough good pens. Pen, a wine you know your manager likes or an original gift for the pet if you know what the owner & pet like.

        Photo frames can be too personal & contribute to clutter. However if your manager has many frames & always likes more for photos then go for it.
        In theory I love the subscription suggestion, although in reality it can be odd because one might not have time to read them. If someone gave me a subscription I’d be genuinely thankful. I’d also feel guilty each time I received the new issue & didn’t have time to read it!

        1. Blue eagle*

          Please no clutter (picture frames, mugs, magazines, etc). Alcohol (including wine ONLY if you know it is a kind that they prefer and even then only if you can’t come up with something better). Best idea is something for their pet. Kind of like thinking about it from a parent’s angle – – most parents would love for you to give something to one of their children, rather than to them. The same is usually true of pet owners.

          1. Casuan*

            Yup. The parent angle is what I was thinking.

            Really all I’d only want is a heartfelt note on how I’ve helped than to have something I might not like or be able to use.
            Just the note would be quite refreshing, actually!!

  74. Manders*

    Ugh, I spent months reminding my boss about my overdue performance review. Now that it’s on the schedule, I’m suddenly nervous and second-guessing myself. My life is slightly on fire right now (closing on a house at the end of the month, mom has an awful terminal disease), my boss’s life is on fire too (new baby, really rough birth, wife still in recovery, also he has a new intern to train), and my grandboss is dealing with a bunch of fires too (trusted attorney at the firm quit suddenly and may have done some shady stuff before leaving) and it’s hard to tell whether my work isn’t up to par or whether there’s just a ton of ambient tension in the department. I’m hoping that the performance review will clear the air.

    How do you deal with an office full of stressed people and not enough feedback? I honestly can’t tell sometimes if I’m being trusted to work independently, being forgotten about, or just being tolerated until a suprise firing.

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Schedule a check-in meeting with your boss! Just 30 minutes or so should do the trick.

      I empathize with you! My boss just got her mom out of the hospital yesterday and I had to tell her to just work from home instead of returning straight to the office. She is a workaholic and has a hard time drawing boundaries.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      If there was something reeeally wrong they would have stopped everything to tell you. So start by framing it , “whatever it is it’s not something I will get fired for because they would have told me long before now.”

      Life stuff happens. Many times I have found that people who have life going on don’t write harsh reviews. This is because no time, no energy and no brain space.

      In all likelihood you are doing well. Don’t get yourself so knotted up that you fail to hear compliments. Decide to listen just as closely for things that you are doing right and should keep doing. Yesss, when we get knotted up we have to deliberately decide to listen for GOOD things.

      One way of dealing with stressed out people in a fast paced environment is to check in with them as you go along. “Was that ABC report okay yesterday? Did you need more?” “I found the Smith file and left it on your desk, I hope you found it..” and so on. One place I worked had the fastest pace of any where I had every worked. There was no feedback ever. So I made it my habit to check back in where it made sense. Things with added layers of complexity or very small things that could get lost easily were areas that I targeted. I also kept track of people newer than me. I related to their feelings of being lost so I would check with them where appropriate.

  75. Sunny days again*

    I just wanted to share that I’ve been able to accomplish so many things at work since I started on an SSRI last July, and stabilized earlier this year. I’m so relieved and happy that things have turned around — my outlook on everything has improved. The ideas I’ve come up with here at work have moved our company forward in several areas, and I’ve been able to make much progress on some projects that were previously at a standstill. In addition, I lobbied for, and received, a 10% raise outside the normal cycle, simply because I was finally able to not only see my true worth, but to have the energy and strength to put it to my boss in business terms that he agreed with. I no longer see most things defensively but rather in a more positive light. And, perhaps most importantly, I can see and focus on the humor in many situations that I would not have seen as humorous before. I feel like the sun has come back out in my brain, and I am ever so grateful. Thanks for listening!

    1. BabyManager*

      This is such a great thing to hear. Congrats on finding the treatment that works for you, it can be so hard to find the perfect thing, and now you’re thriving and it’s really wonderful. And the raise, well done! Bravo/brava!

  76. Sunshine Brite*

    Got a new job!!! Working in a prison with male offenders in a professional mental health role. Super excited.

    Any tips on completing a daunting transition? My current caseload is about two months out and having to wrap that up in 2 weeks.

    3. ThatGirl*

      Oh my gosh, kudos to you. My husband is an LPC and definitely does not have the temperament or desire to work with such a difficult population, but it’s so vital. Good luck!

  77. Anonymous Assistant*

    I think I was a bit rude to a coworker this week and I’m trying to decide if I should apologize or not. “Shelly” used to work for our sister organization, Company B. She was part-time there and they only way to become full time was to move to our location, Company A. She originally was hired for the position I now hold (admin asst). I was part-time in a different dept. when she started. Since being here, she has been promoted twice and is not a dept. director. My role has changed a bit since she held it, I have increased responsibilities and we have tripled the number of staff members as we expanded about 2 years after she was hired.

    Since she has been here, she has constantly compared Company B to Company A. She says things like “Well at Company B, they do that this way” or “I think Company B does it better”, etc. She makes it pretty clear that she would prefer to be at Company B. She can’t transfer back to Company B because there are no open positions at her level and she would not take a pay cut to go back.

    In a meeting on Wednesday, she suggested that I change our staff calendar to match the way Company B does their calendar because that would be easier for her. I replied that Company B does many things differently than we do because they have more time and although the change would make it easier for her, it would increase my already heavy workload and it would make the calendar cluttered and less reader/user friendly for others. Another coworker said she has the info “Shelly” wanted on her department calendar that way and would be glad to give “Shelly” permission to view the calendar and use the info.

    Since then, “Shelly” has been avoiding me and not speaking to me. We used to exchange pleasantries but she has not replied to my “good morning” or ” did you like the cafe special” since Wednesday. I’m sure she’s just upset that I did not agree to make changes that only benefit her, as she had done this to other staff in the past that don’t do things the way she wants. Apparently my refusal has been a hot topic for gossip and I don’t know if it’s because I publicly refused or if maybe I was rude in the way I refused. I am also really, really tired of her constant comparisons, as are many others. When someone went to her manager and asked if they could ask her to not constantly compare everything we do to Company B, she basically quit speaking for about a week.

    1. Effie*

      I don’t think you need to apologize; it sounds like you were direct, not rude. Most likely other people are sick of her constant comparisons as well but no one has said anything publicly, hence the fodder for gossip. I think as long as you continue to be professional and polite and carry on as before even if she’s ignoring you, you’ll be fine.

      1. Elle*

        Plus, if she had a problem with how you responded to her suggestion, she should act like an adult and speak to you directly about it – not act like a child and refuse to speak to you and sulk. I can’t stand when grown people act like that, especially at work! It doesn’t sound to me that you have anything to apologize for…you didn’t belittle her or put her down, or cuss at her, or anything else for which an apology might be an appropriate response.

      2. Anonymous Assistant*

        Thanks for the reply, Effie. I have, and will continue, to be professional and polite to her. I didn’t think I was rude but I wanted to check with AAM commenters because they always seem to have very helpful suggestions/comments.

    2. Sadsack*

      She was already told to quit the comparisons. I think what you said to her was fine and it sounds like you’d have support if anything came out of it. I doubt anything will though. It is ok to push back on a request that doesn’t make good business sense. You doing extra work when she can get info elsewhere doesn’t make sense.

      1. Anonymous Assistant*

        Yes, that was the most aggravating part. She wanted it so that it easier for her, but she did not want to put the effort in to make it that way, she wanted someone else to do it.

        1. JulieBulie*

          No one should reinforce that kind of behavior on her part. I used to have a coworker who was always full of great “ideas” for his convenience that he wanted other people to implement; he doesn’t work here any more.

          And you weren’t rude. Rude would be if you had said “shut up about Company B already and stop asking other people to do frivolous tasks.”

          I hope that the manager told her, “Shelly, I’m so sorry you don’t like it here. I’m sure I can get you transferred back to Company B where you’ll be happy.”

    3. Mephyle*

      Some people have a very personal definition of ‘rude’ which is essentially ‘being direct instead of hinting’ compounded with ‘something I didn’t want to hear.’ I think you did fine.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Don’t apologize, you have nothing to apologize for.

      Do walk by her with a cheerful good morning, etc, as you did before this incident. Act as if you assume nothing is wrong. Pretend not to notice if she does not answer you. It baffles the heck out of people like this.

    5. ..Kat..*

      Was the other coworker present for this conversation? If so, ask her what she thought. Otherwise, how you described it here does not sound rude. I am so tired of people complaining about rudeness just because someone didn’t like what they were told!

  78. AdAgencyChick*

    Question for the freelancers out there…

    Have you ever freelanced for two people or companies that are competitors of each other? If they didn’t make you sign a noncompete or even verbally agree to exclusivity, how much do you owe them as far as exclusivity, or even letting each one know that you work for the other?

    1. MLiz*

      I’ve done some freelance work for competing firms, though I should also say it was analyst work, so there’s not really much that I can do for either of them at the expense of another. I collect and review data and analyze it.

      That being said, I had CDAs with these companies, so I was legally obligated to keep my mouth shut anyway. If the project were running concurrent I stacked them in days/parts of days, so I would work on company A in the mornings or Monday through Wednesday and company B in afternoons or Thursday and Friday or something. I could do this at home, so I was in a rather comfortable position. It’s just important for me to keep the places separate and if I know something about company A that would benefit company B’s project I treated it as if I didn’t know. It’s mostly a matter of compartmentalization.

  79. BabyManager*

    So, here’s a question: is anyone finding the new overtime laws affecting how Summer Fridays work at their offices?

    I’m a first-time manager, inherited a position from my previous manager who left last October (just around when the new laws were kicking in, I believe.)

    Our company has always offered “summer Fridays” options, at the discretion of department managers, wherein employees had the choice of working extra hours and leaving early on Fridays during the summer months, or working extra hours and taking alternate Fridays off.

    The way it always worked in my department was we’d come in a half-hour early or later, take 45-minute lunches instead of 1-hour lunches, and then take alternate Fridays off, making sure at least one team member was present in the office every Friday. Our company has a full-time work week of 35 hours, so this allowed us to make up almost the entire 70 hours over a 2-week period. (I did the math and it’s actually 69.75 hours, so really we should have been adding 15 minutes to that schedule, but my old boss was very flexible about this and the business didn’t have a problem with it.)

    Now, I’m the boss, and it’s the time of year to set summer schedules, and they’re once again offering this option. Only now, we can’t make up the time over a two-week period, because of the new OT law (at least this is how it was explained to me), so my team would have to work 9-hour days on weeks where they take Friday off. With the low amount of work that comes in during the summer, this isn’t a trade-off anyone is happy about. (It’s not worth it to work extra-long days all week just to get Friday off; the difference between 7.75 hours and 9 hours is keenly felt when it’s this slow.)

    But my understanding here is that it’s not the company’s fault, but the law’s – because to do it the “old” way, they’d have to work 31 hours on “Friday off” weeks and 39 hours on “Friday on” weeks to get to the full 70.

    Does that seem right? I know that the OT law affects people who work *over 40* hours a week, but does it work the same way when the full work week is 35 hours? Or is HR wrong and they’re being overly strict about this now and blaming it on the new law?

    1. enough*

      The 31/39 would work. The issue is that you can’t work 48/32 without paying overtime for the extra 8 in the 48. Overtime is defined as hours worked over forty in a work week. It doesn’t matter what your company’s normal work week is.

    3. Natalie*

      Well, firstly, the rule change (not a new law) was rescinded with the new administration, so it definitely doesn’t apply to anyone anywhere.

      But, even if it hadn’t been rescinded, unless you are in California your HR department is completely wrong about how OT works. Whatever the company decides is “full time” has no bearing – employers are required to pay OT for all time worked over 40 hours in a week, period.

      (If you are in CA, there is an 8-hour-day OT law, but there are some allowed exceptions that might cover this.)

    4. WG*

      Would your company consider changing to a flexible summer schedule where it didn’t have to always be Friday off? I’ve worked places were some people worked Monday-Thursday, some Tuesday-Friday, or some even worked four days and took Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday off – but every week so that 35 hours were worked every week.

      Or people could have the option to work five days per week, but shift their schedule to come in early and leave early, or come in late and leave later. I once had a coworker that liked coming in later in the day during the summer so she could garden or do other outdoor activities in the morning when it was cooler.

      If there is interest from the staff and a schedule can be worked out to ensure appropriate coverage throughout the week, these option could be workable.

    5. Ask a Manager* Post author

      This is confusing because there isn’t a new overtime rule. One was proposed, but it’s been blocked and never went into effect. Does your company realize that?

      And legally, overtime pay only kicks in after 40 hours. It doesn’t matter if someone’s normal “full-time” schedule is 35 hours a week; it’s not overtime until it hits more than 40.

      1. BabyManager*

        There’s nothing not confusing about this, I think they’re just being mean now.

          1. BabyManager*

            I think a lower HR person said that initially and when I went back and pointed it out and said “in light of this, would the business be willing to consider letting my department keep on doing summer Fridays the way we have been for years” a higher HR person was brought in, and that person just t0ld me, “No, we need people to make up the hours the same week.”

            So they’re not citing the law anymore, they’re just flatly refusing to let us keep doing things the way we were before, with no reason given. I’m thinking maybe they weren’t aware that we were doing things that way until we told them? Because before last November, when there was GOING to be a new law, non-exempt employees didn’t have to record hours on time sheets; now they do. Before the timesheets I’m guessing they didn’t know/care how people made summer Fridays work, but now that there are daily hours recorded, they’re suddenly putting this policy in place? To be honest, I’m really confused about the decision, but with the atmosphere around here, I can’t die on this hill. :(

            Thrilling for my team. I get to tell them, “Sorry, out of nowhere, we can’t do summer Fridays the way we used to anymore.”

            It’s like they capitalized on the confusion over the OT law and implementation of timesheets as a result of it (EVEN THOUGH THE LAW NEVER HAPPENED, THE TIMESHEETS STAYED!) to just… change the policy?

            1. BabyManager*

              So, I actually asked for a quick meeting with HR to clear this up, and this is what the VP of HR said:

              “It’s actually always been the policy to have the hours made up in the same week that a summer Friday is taken. This is for legal reasons that could impact benefits, we need all of the hours in the same week.” (They didn’t go into details about the “legal reasons” and I left that alone.)

              I asked if the reason it’s changing now is because they weren’t aware that we were doing things the old way until they started having our NY office record hours in timesheets (which started last November, hence I’m sure the confusion regarding the timing when that law was going to go into place, which is I think why they had us start using timesheets in the first place.) and they said yes.

              So holding my team to a “make up all 35 hours in the same week” schedule is just a correction to the way we’d been doing it for years prior, and the business requires it do be done that way for [some vague reason about legalities pertaining to benefits which they declined to share with me.]

              Not great, but at least a vague explanation I can give my team. Sigh.

  80. Camellia*

    This week I was in a meeting that included three HR reps, looking at some new software. They told a story about someone who had worked on the Operations side of the house, had quit, and then two months later was coming back to a job on the Business side of the house. Negotiations were complete, offer was accepted, and everyone was happy – until HR started to enter the new position in the system for the re-hire. That’s when they discovered that his salary for the Business position was 20% higher that his ending salary for the Operations position. They said they promptly withdrew the offer, that “we can’t give someone a salary increase of 20% after they’ve only been gone two months!” They seemed quite incensed, as if that person had tried to cheat the company somehow.

    Shocked, angered, then saddened for the lost re-hire; I had quite a roller coaster of emotions in about three seconds. This just seems so NOT RIGHT, but what do you all think? Was this an appropriate thing to do?

    4. Jessesgirl72*

      If they had been giving proper increases and keeping up with market standards all along, it wouldn’t be a 20% increase!

      1. CAA*

        Well, not necessarily. If these are different jobs with different qualifications, they will have different pay scales. Just because he’s qualified for a higher level position in business doesn’t mean he was being underpaid in the lower level position in operations.

        1. Camellia*

          This. There are pay bands associated with our jobs and the offered salary would have had to be within the band.

    5. Not Today Satan*

      Honestly, HR should be very minimally involved in hiring. It never ends well.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        Yes. They’re not there to rubber-stamp hiring decisions.

      2. Elle*

        I think that depends on the person and/or department. Some of us are quite helpful and good at helping managers with hiring

        1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

          Yes, with emphasis on the helping. Our HR person is super helpful with the details. But a lot of HR departments take a very active, decisionmaker role in the hire, and that’s really frustrating.

      3. Blue Anne*

        There are some good ones. I interviewed at a firm recently where I am 75% sure the HR director was an AAM reader. She was excellent.

    6. Elle*

      WHAAAT?? That’s ridiculous. And I’m in HR. Some people have absolutely NO common sense.

    7. CAA*

      So will they now hire an outsider who knows nothing about the company to fill the business role at same salary they were prepared to pay the former employee? And they think this is good for the company somehow?

      1. Camellia*

        Good question, and I don’t know what happened. It would have been inappropriate for me to say anything, much less ask a question, so it was probably a good thing that the rush of emotions left me tongue-tied! But as you say, it was good how???

    8. JulieBulie*

      Idiocy. Someone who has previous experience with the company is an asset. Their priorities are way out of whack.

  81. Stranger than fiction*

    Happy Friday everyone. Wanted to get some opinions;
    Do you think it’s bad luck to take over the office of someone that was fired?
    I’ve been waiting for a quieter spot to open up and the one right next to one of my managers just opened up because that person got fired (for cause). Another person who had that office was also fired, but they had moved to a different office about two years beforehand, so they weren’t occupying it when they got fired.
    My significant other said you should never take over a “tainted” office or cubicle.

    1. Manders*

      I’m not a big believer in real estate-related curses. I’ve lived and worked in a whole lot of old buildings where many people have been fired or died, and I’m doing all right.

      If it would make you feel better to do a little ritual or reorganize some stuff to make the office feel clean and fresh, go right ahead. But, well, loads of people have unfortunate things happen to them every day–it would be weird to treat the physical space a lousy employee happened to work in for a while as inherently tainted and unusable.

    2. Nanc*

      Think about every single thing you come in contact with every day. Odds are good that something really bad happened to someone who was part of the process of creating it. Your delicious mocha with extra chocolate sprinkles? The espresso beans came from a fabulous farm with happy workers and were transported to the roasting site by entirely green transportation. At the roasters they were lovingly roasted by happy employees using a solar powered roaster and stored in bags made entirely of sustainable recycled materials. From the roaster they were transported to the local espresso bar via electric delivery truck and unloaded by teamsters who love their jobs and have a fair union agreement. However, the person who made the lid of your personal made-from-all-recycled material mug just found out she can never have children/rent is going up 30%/spouse wants a divorce/[insert your favorite country music sad cliche here].

      The mocha is still delicious despite the lid-maker’s woes.

    3. Lily in NYC*

      I am flabbergasted that someone would not take an office for a reason like this. I know two people died in my apartment but so far no ghosts have come to get me.

    4. Mephyle*

      I can predict that “Anna” who is made ill by the ‘fake vibrations’ of Prudence’s LW (May 4, 2017) would not want that office.

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      I think that kind of superstition is ridiculous. Take the office you want.

    6. DaBlonde*

      There was a desk at my old job that was jinxed. The last two people that sat there were fired. I was offered a promotion, but I would have to move from my nice big desk with dual monitors to the tiny, jinxed desk.
      I took the promotion, my co-workers and I put up a cross and a dream-catcher, and I worked happily there until I was offered a better position elsewhere.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      This assumes you have a choice in where you plant your desk and that almost never happens to most people. What are they supposed to do?

      Suppose your building is OLD. In all likelihood someone got fired in every office in the building at some point. Now what do we do? Take a wrecking ball to the building because no one will work in it?

      I believe above all else, that if I think I am vulnerable then I will become vulnerable. It’s our own stinkin’ thinkin’ that unravels us most of the time. Decide you are going to be fine and consider asking your SO what’s up with the Eyeore stuff.

    8. Workaholic*

      If you’re that worried do some sort of ritual “cleansing”. Smudging. Prayer. Open a window or door and “clean/brush” the negativity out.

  82. Thursday Next*

    I have a summer business casual question. I’m a grad student in a STEM field doing an internship at a large company. From the information I have the dress code is business casual, and I’ll be in a part of the country where the average high for summer months is ~90F and it’s very humid. I’m starting to pack and realized that the business casual wardrobe I’ve built is heavily dependent on skirts.
    QUESTION: What is the state of pantyhose with skirts in the summer in regards to business casual requirements? Definitely required? Maybe not required but know your workplace? Totally ok to have bare legs? (BTW all my skirts hit my knee when standing, are lined and don’t highlight anything I’m wearing under them, and all shoes I’m planning on wearing are dressy flats or loafers, I don’t do heels).
    I won’t be doing anything more hazardous than the long term hazards of sitting at a desk and staring at a computer all day so I shouldn’t need to worry about safety requirements, but since I’m in academia right now I literally forgot pantyhose were a thing – I wear tights in the winter for warmth but bare legs when it’s temperature appropriate.
    *Also one solution is to buy more pants but as I’m curvy/athletic on the bottom I’ve had a heck of a time finding work pants (with functional pockets!) that don’t fit me around my middle like my running tights do, I’ve had a much easier time finding skirts that fit.

    1. Stranger than fiction*

      I’m in CA and pantyhose would never be considered business casual in most industries in my experience. Bare legs would be totally Ok assuming your skirts aren’t mini.

    2. Amber Rose*

      After having read the hot debate on this matter from AAM circa 2010… my guess is it depends on the workplace.

      Also I really, really don’t understand why people find bare legs unprofessional. Do the same people have trouble with bare arms? Or any bare skin at all? What the heck is so awful about shins/calf muscles? :O

        1. Panda Bandit*

          Those comments! I can’t stop laughing at the person with the “feminine and respectable” comment. I’m pretty sure they were typing that with one hand.

    3. Effie*

      I’d say depends on the workplace. I used to work for a very conservative tech company and I always wore thigh-highs with my skirts (greatly prefer to pantyhose). Also they kept my legs warm if there was freezing cold AC and kept my legs from chafing due to walking while sweaty! I still wear them now in my super-casual accounting firm for reasons listed above.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      I’m in a large engineering company in the conservative midwest where summers are 90F and humid, and we’re business casual. It’s normal to go without pantyhose in the summer. The rules I would put in place are what you’ve already said you would do – knee length skirt at minimum, flats or loafers. I personally do wear hose if I am wearing a skirt suit to meet with clients or execs, but some people don’t. As an intern, you probably won’t have to worry about that.

      The only other thing that you might want to be aware of is if you had a tan with a major sock line, legs that are banged up from a mountain biking hobby, or whatever. I would still skip the hose, but others might cover up more.

    5. Princess Carolyn*

      With the usual caveat that it depends on the workplace, I’ll say: no pantyhose necessary. Even when I worked in a more conservative banking environment, pantyhose were optional and typically only the older women wore them. I would argue that pantyhose are too formal to be considered business casual, but “business casual” is a really tricky dress code to begin with.

      If you’re really worried about it, you can either ask a trusted female colleague or keep wearing pants until you see what the other women in the office do. But I would be surprised if you see anyone under 40 wearing panythose on a hot day.

      1. Thursday Next*

        Thanks for the reassurance. It won’t be too hot right away so for the first week or so I can always err on the side of caution with pantyhose and not be too miserable outside. From some networking I’ve done at the company I suspect that the division I’ll be in is on the more casual side of business casual but I know that how a more senior male colleague sees the dress code may not be valid for a more junior female intern.

    6. Judy (since 2010)*

      As far as pantyhose goes, it’s probably OK if it’s not mentioned in the dress code. (The employer I left 3 years ago still had pantyhose in the dress code, but no one was enforcing it.)

      I’d mention that I’ve never worked in an office where I wasn’t wearing a sweater during the summer. Layers are essential in every office I’ve worked in.

      Have a great summer experience!

      1. Thursday Next*

        Thanks! I am definitely packing the cardigans and blazers I have and am bringing a couple of light weight scarves for overly air-conditioned offices.

    7. Little Missy*

      Is there a way you can reach out to someone at your internship site and ask what is appropriate? That way you can pack or shop accordingly before you get to your site. And good luck with your internship!

      1. Zathras*

        I like this idea, you could reach out to whoever your contact there is and ask “By the way, are there any dress code specifics I should be aware of before I start – pantyhose required with skirts, no open toed shoes, anything like that?” That should get you direct answer about the pantyhose and possibly some other useful information about what to wear.

        1. Thursday Next*

          That is an option. My main contact/project supervisor is male and I’m his first intern so I’m not sure how accurately he’ll be able to translate the dress code to female specific clothing items, although I’ll probably be able to get a general idea of the dress code. I’ve meet people from this company, and similar ones, at conferences and while everyone dresses pretty casually at them and while I’m fortunately yet to experience noticeable sexism in my career, I have seen a distinct difference in the distribution of dress between men and women, in that while there are more and less formally dress men and women, the average woman is dressed better than the average man and most casually dressed woman was better dressed than the most causally dressed man.

          Fortunately all my science will be done on a computer so I shouldn’t have to worry about lab safety requirements.

    8. Merida Ann*

      If your field has any involvement with anything outdoors or construction or anything like that, be sure to keep a pair of jeans or other long pants in a drawer at your desk in case you are asked at the last minute to come along on a site visit to somewhere where you would need your legs covered. I once ended up on the roof of a large building in a skirt because my boss invited me along to check on a roof leak and I was in a dress that day. I had shorts on underneath, but I definitely would have preferred to be able to pull on a pair of jeans under my skirt before climbing up to the roof. And if you’re in any construction areas or certain types of labs, there might be requirements for full-length pants. (Same goes for close-toed shoes if you don’t always wear them.)

    9. vpc*

      I’m in federal government in Georgia, and bare legs are perfectly acceptable in a business casual environment (skirt and top or dress), or even on the formal edge of it (skirt suit). I wear nothing but dressy flats, and while I tend to longer skirts, plenty of my (younger) coworkers wear skirts that hit above the knee.

  83. welp*

    So! I just had a weird thing happen! I work for a small office as part of a large global firm. I’ve been here 5 months. 5 people have quit, none have been replaced. Money is tight and people are now almost constantly joking about layoffs. I was out for a walk during my break and saw my boss in what looked like an interview at a nearby coffee shop (young woman in a professional-ish dress, resumes on the table). Based on the positions that are open, the age of the woman, and the secrecy of the meeting, I’m concerned it’s an interview to replace a current employee, namely me.

    1. Stranger than fiction*

      Wait, if it’s financial issues, why would they be replacing you? I mean sure, they may find someone cheaper but hiring costs $ so how much would it really save them in the long run.

    2. SophieChotek*

      Maybe they are finally replacing 1 of the other 5? Fingers crossed for you! (Maybe your manager is interviewing for a new job…!)

    3. Friday*

      Your boss could be interviewing for a new position herself….. if money is tight then why would your company be hiring, after all? All the same you should probably be looking elsewhere yourself.

    4. welp*

      I’m getting paid about $16,000 above market value. The only positions we’ve lost are attorneys and a secretary requiring 7-10 years experience, and this young woman was way too young to fit that. I don’t know why they’d replace me either, other than to save a little cash and to find someone happier in the role (it’s been clear since day 1 this isn’t a good fit and my 90-day review focused on how I need to smile more *eyeroll*). It could honestly be a million different things, but I saw it and just had a gut feeling…

      1. welp*

        We’ve also been bringing folks into the office to interview. If she’s interviewing someone out of the office at a coffee shop, it’s definitely to replace an existing employee. There are only a couple of us that are in the more entry-level, early career roles, and the other gal is way more popular than I am. The bonds between attorneys and their secretaries can be career-long, so I doubt they’d find a cheap replacement for the others here (they’ve followed their attorneys from firm to firm; they’re not as disposable as I am)

        1. Jules the First*

          It could be that your boss is interviewing someone for an empty position, but the candidate is keeping her search quiet and she knows someone in your office who would blab it to her current employer if she were seen in your office…(spoken as someone who had to ask interviewers for weird times or off-site interviews because I couldn’t afford to be spotted going into their offices while employed by my then-current employer….)

    5. Zathras*

      Any chance it could just have been an informational interview or similar? Maybe she’s a friend’s daughter or an alum of his school or something, and he offered to chat with her a bit about what the field is like and offer feedback on her resume.

  84. NJ Anon*

    I quit my job yesterday without anything lined up. I have a few irons in the fire. I offered my boss 2 weeks notice at my current full-time hours and said I would put some time in after that if she wants me to on a part-time basis. Trying to decide if I should do it as a subcontractor or as an employee. Advantages and disadvantages to both. Thoughts? (Either way I am going to tell her I need a higher rate since I won’t have health insurance, etc.)

    1. Anono-me*

      There are two little and one big advantages that I see to the part time option.

      The big advantage is that you will still be employed while job searching and thus able to avoid the unemployment bias.

      The two other advantages are that both your taxes and resume will need simpler.

      Good luck.

    2. Natalie*

      This isn’t actually entirely you’re decision – contractor vs employee has to follow certain rules. So if you’re doing the exact same work under the exact same strictures, you probably don’t meet the legal bar for a contractor.

      That said, if you decide to do it as a contractor don’t forget to factor in the employer’s share of payroll taxes (FICA), which you will have to pay as an IC.

  85. Tim*

    Need help on how to word something on my resume…

    I was hired at entry-level in 2015 – say, as a Teapot Builder, for a company that contracts out components like spouts, lids, etc (which is standard in the industry).

    In 2016 I was promoted to Teapot Construction Training Coordinator, where I train all the in-house people and oversee a lot of the contractor stuff. Earlier this year I acquired a few additional certifications and am covering for the Teapot Construction Manager on a relief basis. This means I am supervising both the in-house employees and the contractors.

    My company considers both roles to be a Teapot Construction Lead, so I have been at the same title/pay since the promotion in 2016. I think my accomplishments as Teapot Construction Training Coordinator are more impressive, but I’m more interested in advancing along the teapots manager path, and the more recent relief manager duties are more relevant to that role.

    Since it isn’t technically a promotion…how would you suggest I format this on my resume? I did take on some additional responsibilities in this role, but I was arguably doing higher-level work in a different area already, and I don’t want to sell myself short on that either.

    1. CAA*

      Maybe something like this?

      Teapot Mfg Inc — June 2015 to Present
      – Teapot Construction Training Coordinator, June 2016 to Present
      – Teapot Builder — June 2015 to June 2016
      * Acted as Teapot Construction Manager beginning in January 2017. Supervised contractors, …
      * More training coordinator accomplishments …

  86. Possibly Petty*

    My company conducts bi-annual reviews two times per year and I just received my review this week. It was a very positive review and my manager had nothing but good things to say. At the end of the review she told me I was getting a promotion (from coordinator to manager), which I was really excited about. However, the promotion does not come with a pay raise, new benefits or perks, and doesn’t really change my role at all. Is this normal?

    I’m happy for the better title but I have to admit, I was at least hoping I may get a change of location in my office as well. I work at a receptionist desk, even though I am not a receptionist, and would desperately love to get away to either a shared office or my own office. The constant interruptions throughout the day drive me bonkers. My boss is aware I would like a change of view and promised she would ask her boss if this could be done in the future.

    Am I being petty about this? I really am grateful for the promotion but at the same time I am feeling that it doesn’t mean a whole lot.

    1. Anon Anon*

      No you are not being petty.

      It’s not a promotion if it doesn’t come with additional responsibility, job duties (whether that has been assigned as a result of the promotion or where taken on and was part of the reason that the promotion was provided), and the pay and perks that correspond with that additional work.

      The title change is nice, and I suspect will assist you when you move organizations. But, it’s not normal to not receive a pay increase and/or other benefits.

      1. Possibly Petty*

        Thanks, I appreciate your input. My company did give me a fairly generous raise six months ago, so I honestly wasn’t even expecting to get another one so soon and that is most likely why my pay didn’t change. I’m fine with that but was hoping that *something* would change, whether it be my responsibilities, duties, etc.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      No, that is not petty. A title change that does not involve ANY other changes is just a pat on the head. It’s nice, but it doesn’t pay your bills.

      I’d go back and ask what the title change means. If they’re saying you’re more valuable to the company in words, they should also be willing to say it in actual compensation, whether that is more money, a better location, more vacation, or some combination of upgrades.

    3. Lily in NYC*

      My company always does this – they think a new title will keep people from leaving and they thought it would keep you happy even though you didn’t get a raise. It’s especially common with admin jobs.. But at least it looks good on your resume!

    4. Director of Things*

      The promotion with no raise has happened to me, but I wouldn’t say it’s normal. And it sucks.

      Were you promoted because you’d already grown into the manager role, and that’s why the role seems so similar?
      Regarding the lack of raise, I would go back to your boss and say something like, “I’ve been thinking about my review last week, and want you to know how excited I am about the promotion. I’d like to discuss my compensation in regards to this new role. [Ask for specific dollar amount or specific date in future when you will be given salary commensurate with new job.]”

      Also, you’re not being petty!

  87. Lizzard*

    Can anyone suggest some resources for improving my business writing skills? I’ve recently been promoted (yay) and I’m finding myself surprisingly out of my depth when it comes to writing. Writing term papers and literary critiques have done little to prepare me for writing project proposals. Any tips on transitioning from an AP English style to a professional one?

    1. Manders*

      What kind of business writing are you doing? I know some great resources for content writing, but it sounds like that might not be what you’re looking for.

      1. Lizzard*

        Content writing would be helpful actually. I’ve moved from a strictly design role into more of a marketing role, so please let me know what you recommend!

        1. Manders*

          My favorites are:

          The Contently blog
          The Moz blog (more of a focus on writing with SEO in mind, but they do advocate for giving users a good experience with strong writing and valuable content)
          Search Engine Land (again, more SEO-focused, but if you are writing web copy it’s important to have a handle on trends)

          Every company has a slightly different style they’re looking for, so learning to be mimic a variety of tones and styles is a big help. Read the copy that the person previously in your role produced or ask your boss to send you examples of copy they like. When I was trying to get better at business writing, I started a blog where I’d write ridiculous things in different writing styles (in startup feel-good jargon, in overly formal fake legalese, as a Hot Take, in the style of 50 Shades of Grey, in the style of Twilight…) and it made me a much more flexible writer.

    2. Collie*

      Check to see if your public library has a free (w/ your library card) online course database. I know GALE Courses has some sessions on business writing (and Lynda might, too). Both are asynchronous and you receive a certificate for most GALE Courses.

  88. Hallie*

    Anyone have advice for dealing with highly competitive, spotlight-taking coworkers?

    I find more satisfaction in my work itself than in garnering tons of attention for my projects. But I have a coworker who likes to do big flashy projects and she gets really weird if there’s an award that isn’t going to something of hers, and she definitely wants her name to be all over anything with even a slight level of visibility. It’s just who she is.

    Its a problem I can typically handle without getting really frustrated–but I told the group I was submitting a project for a particular award, mainly because the project needs funding…and then she presented the opportunity at our next group meeting as if it were a new thing and announced she was submitting her project for the award (the project already came from a significant source of money, so she just wants another award with her name attached) and pretended to have forgotten I had initially brought it up.

    Any advice for how to handle this in a highly collaborative environment? I can keep some aspects of my projects low visibility for a time if I think they’ll trigger her, but not everything.

    She is not a direct person at all and having any kind of direct discussion with her is not going to be productive.

    1. Temperance*

      I would frankly start competing with her, but I’m competitive by nature. Do you have a shared boss? I really think that your boss should be the person green-lighting what kinds of things get submitted for awards, but that’s how it works here.

      In the meeting, for example, I would have asked her not to submit that project because your project needs financing. I would have also thrown a jab in there like, “oh, Jean, I actually brought this up last week at X meeting, and we’re submitting X project because we need the funds for it”. She’s a spotlight hog because no one calls her on her shit.

      I am not a laid-back person, though, FWIW … I’m an attorney, so I guess it’s my nature? IDK. Either way, I’ve deal with Jeans in my professional life before, where they would try and take over a project so they could steal the credit.

      1. Hallie*

        I’m wishing I had said that, but it caught me off guard, and I didn’t want to look too territorial (a no no in our group, and also in general I just don’t want to operate that way).

        I don’t like competition but it’s tough not to feel called to it when she brings it on so strongly.

        Our boss was there and I might bring up your idea of whether awards submission should go through some kind of check through him…but she’d just do something similar, I think. She brought it up in a group for a reason.

    2. em2mb*

      Our newsroom has a policy where we have to clear award submissions through a manager because it doesn’t really make sense to have multiple reporters competing in the same categories for the same prizes. Sometimes I get frustrated that the work I do gets overlooked — it’s more methodical and less sexy than some of my coworkers’ — but I agree that the policy is good for the newsroom. We want to submit the work with the best shot at winning.

      Is there anyone above her that you might be able to speak to? “I don’t think it’s productive for us to submit work that’s already funded for this prize. Can we be more deliberate about our strategy on this?”

      1. Hallie*

        Yeah, I might do that. It’s tough because this is one example of a pattern that’s hard to predict what else she might do.

        I don’t begrudge her any of the external appreciation she gets (really), because her work is genuinely good. It’s just frustrating that she really seems to expect that EVERYthing can and should go to her, at the exclusion of everyone else.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          From what you say here I suspect you are dealing with a very fragile person who gets her sense of worth/definition from her awards. Dragging the boss in as a mediator might just be the perfect thing.

  89. Ayla K*

    I typically eat lunch at my desk while I work and then spend my break reading in my car. However, during extreme weather (rainstorms or heat waves), my car is not a comfortable place to spend an hour and so I will read in the break room during “non-peak” hours (i.e. after 1pm). There is almost always *someone* in the break room, though, and even when my nose is in a book and I have headphones in, they almost always feel a need to comment or say something.

    “How’s your day going?” “Whatcha reading?” “Good book, huh?”

    I’m sure they’re just trying to not be rude, but what’s the easiest response to let people know that they really don’t need to acknowledge my presence and I’d be happiest if they just left me alone while I’m on break?

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I have no idea why people feel the need to do this. I sometimes default to the “headphones in, cannot hear you, la la la” approach, but that’s weak sauce.

    2. Amber Rose*

      Unfortunately, I think you have to suck it up. Literally anything you say will come across as cold and unfriendly, which is not ideal at work.

      This is just one of those small social niceties that we have to deal with.

    3. Xarcady*

      I would look up, smile, maybe give a finger wave, and go back to my book.

      In other words, acknowledge their presence, but don’t give them an opportunity to start a conversation. My workplace is full of people who seem to assume the only reason you’d read a book at lunch is because you couldn’t find anyone to talk to.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        I do think that after the smile and little wave, if they keep trying to engage, it’s probably acceptable to say something like, “Oooh, sorry, Wakeen, I’m really trying to finish this chapter before I go back to my desk, it’s really good!” and then return to reading.

    4. Manders*

      I’m the same way, I need that time to recharge. Something that helped was cutting back on how often I ask follow-up questions and make affirming noises when someone speaks. I had been unconsciously encouraging people to continue a conversation instead of exchanging a pleasantry and stopping there.

      In my office, there’s this unspoken rule that you’re rude if you enter a room with someone in it and don’t say anything to them. I think it’s weird, but that’s how it is, so I just got used to the “Hey, how’s it going?” “Oh, you know… feels like a Friday.” “I know, right?” scripts where you’re using a couple stock lines to acknowledge someone’s there.

      1. Ayla K*

        I think you’re totally right – it’s this unspoken “don’t be rude” that everyone seems to follow and I fall into it too because I start responding! But yeah I really value that break time so I’m going to start engaging at the absolute minimum (smile and small wave but not start or encourage conversation, as Xarcady suggested above)

        1. Not So NewReader*

          I was used to workplaces where people talk to each other. Granted I was much younger, but when I encountered a workplace where people did not speak to each other in the break room I thought that was odd. As the months went on and the ignoring continued the place felt colder and colder to me. There were other things going on, so the break room attitude was just yet another part of a larger problem. I left the job.

          Fast forward, decades later, same deal. I got a job where no one spoke to each other in the break room. (One hundred employees and no one spoke. ) I decided to eat in my car so I did not even have to think about this. Oddly, this place too turned out to be extremely toxic. Now it is almost cemented in my brain, if people can’t talk to each other even for a moment in the break room that could be a red flag.

          OTH, I see nothing wrong with someone who says, “This is my quiet time.” Tell me once I am set forever.

    5. Temperance*

      I would honestly pretend not to hear them, because, frankly, they’re rude for trying to chat with a person who clearly doesn’t want to be spoken to.

    6. Mobuy*

      I think they feel it would be rude to come in without acknowledging you. Their comments aren’t really comments, they’re just an “I see you.” Give ’em a smile and wave and a one-word answer. I bet that’s all you need.

    7. Sadsack*

      Ignore them? Seriously, if you have headphones on and are reading, they will probably believe you didn’t hear them. I also like Xarcady’s suggestion.

  90. Cruciatus*

    So this is the end of 2 weeks in my current job. I’m enjoying it but I worry about losing some skills that I had before as an admin, like Excel and Word. I don’t use them at all any more as far as I can tell (though I’m less concerned about Word as it’s pretty simple to me). Now I process books in and out of the library most of the time which is fine, but I worry one day in the far, far future I may want another admin job (since I’m at a university and those come up most) or something like it and I’ll be rusty. But I don’t really have the time to play around with it (I’m amazed to have this moment to type this now, but it’s Friday of finals week so things have slowed down). I guess, how concerned should I be? And how does one keep some skills when I no longer have anything to actually work on. I don’t necessarily want to learn new stuff, just not forget everything I currently know. And I don’t want to spend a lot of time on it. I hope that made any sort of sense.

    In other news, my coworker also escaped my previous department! He still has until the end of the month, but he will soon be free of toxicity and negativity and I think next time he’ll advocate for himself earlier if he needs to (he felt like he was betraying the department since he was also a student worker there once upon a time).

    1. Temperance*

      I honestly don’t think that this is that big of a deal, if you’re relatively computer-savvy. Word is a very simple program, as you said, and excel is really simple unless you’re using it for complex math, which I doubt an admin would be doing.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      I feel the same way about some of my more random technical skills that I rarely use. What has worked for me is to keep using them as much as I can outside work. So I track my budget in an Excel doc and I keep track of work activities in an Excel doc (I have to write reports at the end of the year and this keeps me straight on my numbers) and things of that nature.

      But I’d also add that I find things I thought I forgot often come back pretty quick once I am doing them again regularly.

    3. Wheezy Weasel*

      If you’re already working for a University, can you find out if you’d be subjected to skills-testing for other admin jobs? The only times I’ve ever worried about my MS Office competency for an interview was for a temporary position where it was evaluated via a software program, and the software wanted things done a certain ‘way’ (no keyboard shortcuts, no using the help menu). In all other jobs, I’ve been able to benchmark myself on the resume into three basic categories for various software: user, advanced user, trainer for other staff. That usually lets the hiring manager know my competencies and if there’s a serious mismatch, like an need to do advanced Monte Carlo simulations or PERT analysis in Excel, I may need some time to catch up once I’m hired.

  91. Shrug*

    My job is generally too difficult for me. I struggle with almost all of my projects and I feel incompetent. It has destroyed my self-esteem in all aspects of my life, and not just professionally. I just feel like I’m bad at my job no matter how hard I try. Plus, I have a huge workload. I’m not sure how to get my confidence back. Does anyone have tips? I am looking for other jobs in the meantime. I know I need to re-frame how I look at myself, but it’s been so hard. I’m considering quitting without another job because I feel like I need time to get my mind straight. But I’m afraid that would ultimately make my view of myself even worse. I try to fake it until I make it, but I just feel like… someone who’s faking it. It’s part imposter syndrome maybe, but it’s also part this job is just plain too difficult for me. Also, my company is tiny, so there’s very little I can do to reduce my workload, we’re all overloaded. Anyway, self-help tips welcome. :)

    1. Hallway Feline*

      I don’t have any tips, unfortunately, as I am in the same boat. I try to focus on what I do well, and I’m learning to ask for help if I know someone else will have (some of) the answers.

    2. Epsilon Delta*

      Separate “Shrug the Teapot Maker” from “Shrug the Human Being.” Maybe Shrug the Teapot Maker isn’t very good at making teapots, and that’s not ideal but it’s ok. Because Shrug the Human Being is good at being a human being, for example: making excellent cakes, or basket weaving, or being nice to cashiers, or playing with the cats. Whatever it is that you enjoy or makes other people’s lives a little nicer.

      Focus on the things you do well and the things you can get better at. And focus on that job search. Also I’m sorry you’re going through this because it’s really hard to spend most of your day doing something you don’t feel good at.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      How long have you been at this job? IF you are new, I’d say you can’t decide about a job for the first 6 months to 1 full year.

      You feel like you are bad at your job. Well, we are allowed to feel whatever feeling we have. BUT how about collecting up facts? How about going to the boss and saying “hey, I think I am drowning here, what do you think?”

      How do your coworkers feel about their workload? If everyone is struggling there is no reason why you would not be struggling even more as a new person.

      How does this compare to other jobs you have had? Some feelings of being overwhelmed are quite normal.

      From what you have written here I do not see any inputs from outsiders this is all stuff that you have figured out on your own and it may or may not be accurate.

      You get your confidence back by taking control over the situation. Your confidence is gone because you feel you have no control over what is happening to you.

      1) Self-care, self-care. Eat good meals, rest, hydrate.

      2) Talk to others to enlarge your perspective, this could be the boss or maybe there is a cohort that seems trustworthy.

      3) Decide each day that you are going to nail down one thing that is a recurring problem area for you. Keep it small so you can resolve the matter in one day. Next day, repeat the process, nail down one thing that is a recurring problem.
      One job I had I did this every freakin’ day for a year. Gosh, that was exhausting. I went from being the biggest fake to being the best employee (best employee was the boss’ words).
      In order to do this I needed my rest, protein for breakfast and a water bottle because there was no AC.

      FWIW. I am not there. You could be working in hell on earth. If so, ignore me.

      1. Troutwaxer*

        Assuming a non-toxic workplace, I like Not So New Reader’s answer above. In addition to those suggestions, something that might be useful is to figure out what new skill will help you cut down your workload the most, and attempt to gain new skills in that order. Also, taking some time to get organized can really be helpful. Do you have a system for assigning priorities and making sure that every project is kept separate? Thinking about how to organize and systematize your job could lead to some major productivity gains.

  92. Anon Anon*

    I found out that one of my co-workers turned in their resignation. This is the third resignation that we’ve had in a month (with a staff of 30) for mid-career positions. Also, I turned down a job this week as I didn’t think it was the right move, although my boss knows that I’m now keeping an eye out. And yet despite all this there seems to be very little recognition that part of the reason that these people have left is because of the lack of industry standard benefits (telework arrangements, casual dress, etc.). And it also means that it’s very challenging to recruit the type of employee’s that we want. It’s deeply frustrating. My boss acknowledges the issues, but he can’t do a lot to fix things.

    It’s frustrating to watch an organization that you care deeply about it, rot from the head.

  93. SophieChotek*

    Chicago
    I will probably be going on business to Chicago in the coming month. A truly quick 2 day trip to visit a business that we supply Luxury Chocolate Teapots to. I am in charge of all my own travel arrangements from transportation (air flight), to transportation (in the city), to hotels. To some degree that is nice, but i’ve also been given a budget (understandably). Now, with no insult to anyone living in Chicago, I assume provided I am “aware” and not walking maybe really late or really early, it would be safe to walk in Downtown Chicago – like the “mile”, etc? Apparently, in an effort to save money, if possible, my boss would like me to be able to walk (not more than a mile) to my meetings…and we won’t be springing for those super-expensive hotels on the Mile either. I found a chain about 0.5 mile away…

    Is the El easy to use? Also from airports, etc. to city center? Any other tips or suggestions? Thanks!

    1. Emma*

      The El is great! You can take the El from O’Hare to the city center really easily (blue line) or from Midway (orange line). The Magnificent Mile is super safe.

    2. TCO*

      I don’t live in Chicago, but have been there a few times in the past few months (and previously, as well). The downtown area is definitely safe to walk during the day and evening hours. The El is easy, too. You’ll be fine!

      Perhaps you and the boss can agree that you’ll be approved to take a cab if you’re out walking before/after a certain time, just to help you feel more comfortable using a cab if you’re feeling unsafe for some reason.

    3. ThatGirl*

      What Emma said is accurate; I’d also like to note that the “Loop” — what most people call downtown — and the Magnificent Mile are adjacent but not the same neighborhood. Both are generally safe with a lot of public transit options. The El is easy to use (you can buy single or multiride passes or a day pass if you think you’ll be using it a lot) and also generally clean and safe.

      You will have to walk a considerable distance from the terminal to the El station at either airport, that’s my only warning.

      1. Wheezy Weasel*

        Ditto on these: traveling to Chicago and staying downtown is my favorite trip because of the direct connections from either airport and the walkability of those areas: half a mile is pretty standard but takes 2x as long since there is a lot of other pedestrian traffic. Ubers are plentiful if you want to go to a restaurant that’s not walkable. If you have a chance to bring a better set of shoes to/from the meeting, it’s even more tolerable.

        If you’re in doubt about physical safety when walking, the hotel front desk staff and any uniformed police or transit officers you come across are usually very direct blunt in their assessment of the area, and I’d trust their judgement.

  94. yikes*

    I’ve been interviewing to work for the family office (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_office) of an extremely wealthy person. I am relatively far along in the process. The other week recruiting contacted me and said they would like to consider me for the personal side of working for this particular person and their family, ie: I would be hired in an assistant role as a part of their household staff, not the company under which the family office resides.

    I am trying to figure out why this bothers me. The money and benefits would be the same (as far as I know) but something about being employed by a family versus being employed by a corporate entity, even to work for the same person, seems troubling. I can’t decide it it’s a vaguely anxious response on my part to the idea of being considered some kind of servant by outsiders, or if it’s the idea of working somewhere that may not have a real HR department and structure. Any thoughts?

    1. CA Admin*

      Being a PA and an EA are similar enough that a lot of high-level people think they’re interchangeable, but they’re really not. I HATE dealing with personal stuff for my executives and that’s just occasional, minor stuff. I see a substantive difference between the 2 roles/types of assignments and would never agree to work for a person/family rather than a company, even if my boss would be the same.

      There are boundaries when you work for a company that don’t exist when you work for a family. The whole upstairs/downstairs dynamic is much different. When you’re an assistant at a company, you’re all on the same team working for the good of the company. When you work for a family, there’s a separation, an us/them dynamic that’s really odd.

      Also, the kinds of work you do are so different. For a company, it’s travel planning, calendaring, expenses, presentations, filing, spreadsheets, etc. all relating to that company. For a person/family? It’s literally anything. Researching new phone plans, helping hire a new housekeeper/maid/cook, planning their vacations, helping with household finances, picking up dry cleaning, etc. These are things I hate doing in my own life, so why would I do them for someone else? Also, at the office I’m usually working at a desk. PA stuff can take you anywhere.

      Lastly, personal stuff happens on nights/weekends. You can’t work a normal M-F, 8-5 schedule because that’s not when life happens for executives. You work whenever they need you and whenever they can give you time, so you’re looking at unpredictable hours.

      All of which is to say–no thank you, not for me.

      1. Jules the First*

        I was going to chime in but, frankly, CA Admin has said it all and very eloquently…I’ve done both family office stuff and personal household stuff and to be honest, I’m fine with either but there’s definitely a huge difference between what works for one role and what works for the other. The one warning I would add to CA Admin is that you should ask how many people are in the role for the household assistant – I’ve done it where I was the only one (hell on earth) and where I was part of a team of three (still hard work, but at least you got one day off a week and a whole weekend once a month). Oh, and if they’re super wealthy, you need to check how much travel is involved – in one case the family forgot to mention that the whole household decamped to Spain for three months a year…the office staff did not have to come.

  95. Karyn*

    So everyone keep your fingers crossed – I had a really good first interview with a major law firm in my area for a position as a Client Account Services Manager. I have a JD and am getting my law license, but I’m not 100% sure I want to practice in litigation, so this position would be more about managing client invoices and working with clients to get them to pay us. It’s essentially in-house collections, but on the softer side, because you want to maintain the relationship with the client at the same time as getting paid. The pay would be $20-$25k more than I make now, with full benefits. Supposedly they were “pleasantly surprised” by me, and “really liked me,” according to my recruiter, so let’s hope I get that coveted second interview!

    By the way, I credit Alison for even getting in the door – her resume tips were super helpful and I’m sure it’s why I got the interview!

  96. Charlie Bradbury's GF*

    My office doesn’t provide wifi supposedly because they don’t want employees using it to goof off instead of working. How much of a big deal would this be for you? Should I get a group of coworkers together to ask for wifi access? Or should I let it go and spend my breaks at the cafe down the road (their wifi isn’t that great, but at least they have it)?

    1. Leatherwings*

      ooh dealbreaker for me. Do you not need it to work? It seems like a kind of crappy way to shortcut management to me; they should focus on managing employee output and productivity rather than refusing to provide an outlet for “goofing off.”
      If you can get a group together, I think this is a reasonable thing to make a case for.

    2. CheeryO*

      There’s no wifi in my (state government) office, and I really don’t mind. I spend breaks reading or going for walks. I think Netflix lets you download certain shows and movies for offline viewing, so you could do something like that on your break.

      I don’t know your situation, but it probably couldn’t hurt to ask, especially if there’s any work-related need (to make laptop use easier, or whatever else).

    3. T3k*

      Obviously whichever higher up came up with this idea never heard of data plans.

      As for access, that depends on how dependent you’d need it. Myself, I rarely use my phone at work, and that’s mostly to check my personal emails, but if a group of you feel you should have wifi, it’s not unreasonable to ask about it.

    4. The IT Manager*

      Zero deal for me. Why do you need wifi during work anyway?

      I used to work in secure facilities where we couldn’t even bring our phones in. Now I work for another branch of government and our work computers are all wired and there’s no wifi. I surf work appropriated sites like AAM, newspapers, Wikipedia from work computers. I used my phone’s data plan for work time surfng from my phone or using other apps.

      1. Charlie Bradbury's GF*

        Thank you all for your insights and suggestions! I appreciate it :)
        I think the bigger problem might be that I’m not particularly happy at my job, and being able to check twitter on my phone during my break without eating up all my data would make me marginally happier.

  97. Aphrodite*

    If my boss ever asked me what would be a good way to thank me for my great work, I wouldn’t hesitate at all. These are not listed in any particular order:
    A raise
    More paid time off
    More holidays
    Promotional opportunities
    Education assistance to aid in more promotional opportunities
    Work from home once or twice a week
    An opportunity to pick a plum assignment

    1. SeekingBetter*

      I hope your boss will ask you that great question :) Employers should definitely award performing employees.

      1. SeekingBetter*

        I also forgot to add that my employer offers work from home opportunity, but I do not currently take advantage of it because I feel way more productive in an office environment.

  98. AnotherAlison*

    I have a one-on-one with my manager next week. I’ve worked with him for several years, but my career discussions and reviews were always with the #2 or other senior folks in my department. I recently applied to fill the #2 slot, but wasn’t selected. When my manager told me, he mentioned that they were looking at doing some restructuring and that there may be some other higher level positions added soon, but it wasn’t really clear what those would be or when they would be open.

    I’ve been doing my current job very well for almost 3 years, but it’s been really stressful. The work is face-paced with tight schedules and tight budgets. While others in my dept. have had quite a bit of slower time where they haven’t been on high-pressure billable work nonstop, my success with projects has made me one of the go-to people who always gets the next assignment right away. I have been maxed out on my PTO accumulation since February and haven’t been able to take more than one day off.

    More personally, I’m feeling burned out. I started my family and career young. I’ve been taking care of my family and working my tail off for almost 20 years. . .my entire adulthood. I feel like a rat on a wheel where I’m not living life and am just waiting for this project to end or the school year to be over so we can all move on to the next thing. . .which is always another project and school year.

    I really don’t know what I want to do going forward, and I’m not sure what to say to my boss. My strategy for the recent discussions has just been to say I wanted to “grow in this role” and field anything they threw at me. I think I’m still too young to cap myself in this role, and I don’t want to miss opportunities when I’m really ready to move up, but I would also really like to step back for 6 months or something.

    Thoughts on how to navigate this discussion? (Otherwise, thanks for letting me vent!)

    1. Not So NewReader*

      You could:

      Consider a time frame. If they have not decided on new roles by November then you would start looking some where else.

      Consider life goals. By the time I hit 39 I thought the hamster wheel would never end. And I did not have kids. I think the hamster wheel comes with the building up process, homes, family, etc.If we aren’t doing these mundane repetitive activities we don’t maintain or enhance what we already have. My solution was to get rid of a third of the stuff I owned. These things were not enjoyable rather they were a cinder block hanging from my neck. This clearing out lead me to think about what is important to me and what is not.
      I think every decade or so what we value changes. And that is okay.

      It could be that you need that six months to redefine the course of your life. It could be that it is time for you to head in a new direction.

      Confusingly, stagnation is a killer. If we are not moving forward that can really knock us for a loop.

      Whichever way you go on this decision, make sure you have an action plan complete with steps. An action plan could look like this- take 6 months to research careers, schooling, whatever and come to a new conclusion.

      Until you know you are leaving continue to tell your boss that you want to grow. Because if you do not take the six months to blow out some cobwebs, you show here that you would chose to grow. So stick with the growing statement until you know otherwise.

    2. Anna Held*

      No experience with this situation, but I wanted to give you sympathy. It sounds awful. If you have a good rapport with your manager, I’d be frank. Even if it’s not so great, I still think you need to make it clear that constantly getting hit with new projects is burning you out, i.e. not good for the company either. You need a proper break. Your language here isn’t bad; I’d write out what you really want, think about it for a few days, then rewrite to what you’d say, with specifics as to how it would help the company, what you need, etc.

      If you can swing it financially, I’d ask about taking a month of unpaid leave to forestall the burn out. May be you should also be talking to your family about what they can be doing to make your life easier, plus what you’ll be doing in 5 years, etc. Time to reset things.

      Another thing to consider — is there any chance they didn’t give you the job because they want you right where you are? If you’re doing that great a job and not complaining, it might be best for them to keep you there. It might be time to job hunt just to find out what else is out there, what pay rates are, etc.

    3. ..Kat..*

      Hi. I recommend you tell your boss you are going to take two weeks (or more!) when your current project is done – and be completely off work – no phone calls, texts, or emails. If they say they can’t spare you, they don’t value you enough to treat you well for the long term. In other words, they are willing to keep over-working you until you are more burned out than crispy bacon. What are they going to do when that happens? Or when you leave for a job that has better work/life balance? You have maxed out your PTO accumulation! There is no good reason for them not letting you have some down time between projects. And seriously, how many hours do you work weekly? Do you at least get overtime? Fight for a better work/life balance even when you are on a project. You are a super star- they need to start treating you better. Budgets are tight? Guess what would really bust their budget? Having to hire and train one or more people to replace you!

      I also suggest you look around for a new job and see what other options you have. Even if you choose to stay with your current job, knowing you have options can make your situation less stressful.

  99. Isben Takes Tea*

    Until this week when our office moved into an open-office plan building, I never understood the full depth of meaning behind the “BEC” phenomenon.

    CRACKERS ARE SO LOUD.

  100. Callalily*

    My boss keeps asking me to do overtime work ‘if I want’…

    When I started it was clear that they prefer to keep everyone strictly 9-5 to avoid overtime due to budget constraints; it was perfect because I loathe overtime.

    Usually during tax season I get asked to come in 15 min early and stay 15 min late, I have to bank these extra hours for future vacation (despite it being illegal in my area). This was NO PROBLEM when I lived a minute away but I’ve been living an hour away for 6 months now. This extra time was only during March/April.

    For some reason my boss approached me yesterday and asked me if I was free to come in on evenings/weekends to do work if I wanted to! I kind of shrugged it off as one of his unfunny jokes (like I was secretly dying to work extra time) but then he came back to it again later really pushing that we need some extra admin work done in the aftermath of tax season.

    I flat out told him that I can’t stay late or come in on weekends because I have 2 dogs and a sick cat that I care for. I left it at that.

    There are numerous other reasons; I am already away from my pets 10 hours a day, my cat has to be medicated/fed within 30 minutes of when I get home, I take evening university classes (he knows), I have no free time for myself already, it is a 1 hour commute, plus I need to spend my weekends with my dying dad. Even if I didn’t have all these issues, I don’t WANT to be at work outside my 9-5 schedule.

    He’s been a bit off ever since but I don’t want to give him so much information about my personal life and especially not about my dad since my boss is the biggest gossip; every client would be told ‘well, her dad is dying of X you know’.

    I know he is going to ask me again in a month or so about voluntarily coming in and I worry he’ll start to dangle my job above my head to get me to double book my time. What on Earth can I say to him to protect my privacy but also drive the point that I cannot work any extra time?

    1. fposte*

      I might talk to him preemptively, and I also wouldn’t feel obliged to give details about why you don’t work OT. “You’ve been saying a few times lately that I could work OT if I ‘want,’ and that’s confusing me so I wanted to clear the question up. When I was hired it was clear that no overtime is expected, and that was great because I’m not able to work OT. Is that expectation changing?”

      1. ..Kat..*

        This, plus consider not giving excuses. “I’m sorry, I can’t accommodate that with my schedule.” Or even, “I’m sorry. I can’t.”

        You don’t want to get into your private life, so this could work well for you. Besides, when you give people excuses, they often feel that if they can argue away your excuses, then you will have no reason not to do what they want.

  101. Director of Things*

    This is the first year that I am eligible for the company’s bonus structure. Half of my year-end bonus will be based on overall company performance, which makes sense to me. The other half is based on specific job-related goals. I am having trouble coming up with what those are. I am in a creative field, but have very a numbers-minded boss/CEO/board. My role is about half creative and half management – overseeing all new and current projects. I’m somewhat responsible for start-up costs/budgets for projects, so that will be one goal. But I’ve been asked to come up with 2 more measurable goals. Any ideas?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      In my last role, I used something along the lines of “decreased time between project conception to project execution by 25%” as a goal, and pointed to a new staff training program and streamlined engagement process as the way in which I made the project timeline more efficient. Could you adapt that to your work?

      1. Director of Things*

        Possibly. I like the idea of efficiency goals, but I guess I still bump on how to turn something creative into something measurable.

        I could certainly come up with achievements after the fact. Like last year, I opened 3 projects with only 90 days lead time – a new record. But setting up the current/next year’s worth of specific goals feels trickier. Here are some more details:
        Project A management was outsourced to a contractor, so while my team will work on it, I’m not being judged for my bonus on that project.
        Project B is my big kahuna for the year – on that one I’ll be judged on bringing it in on budget and successful launch.
        Project C is a long-term client relationship of mine. But it’s billed to the client on actual cost plus a profit, so technically if I bring it in under budget, we make less money. This one I’d like to figure out a non-monetary goal for.
        There are a few additional projects on the horizon that may or may not come to fruition.

    2. CAA*

      Google “SMART goals” along with your job title(s). This’ll give you a good idea of what other people in your field are measured on and that might help you come up with some goals that would work for your role.

    3. krysb*

      So, at my company we have quarterly goals like this. Some go with the strict 1 goal to help me, 1 goal to help the department, and 1 goal to help the company. We also allow development goals. For example, my goals last quarter were to ensure everyone was performing x task every day, maintain production and sales data for bi-weekly/monthly/quarterly meetings, and spend x amount of time learning x skill. The goals have to be measurable, but not financially based. We have a program that helps with this. We measure by step in the process, percentage complete, confidence rating, and a few more.

      The measurement system depends on the type of goal. I hope this helps!

  102. Not Today Satan*

    Hiring managers who ask for writing samples for non-writing jobs: why, and what kind of samples do you want to see? I can’t send anything I’ve written for work, and it’s not like I write book reports on my off hours.

    1. fposte*

      I might be in this category; I’ve taken to asking for writing samples, and I don’t think the jobs in question are technically writing.

      But they involve a ton of communication, and I’ve found a writing sample is one of the easiest ways to find out if an applicant can sustain cogent and articulate thought. I’m hiring from recent students so I state clearly that a student paper is fine.

      1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        Pretty much this. I want to see that someone has an orderly, systematic thought process and can make a point in a structured fashion.

        1. Not Today Satan*

          So what kind of samples do you look for? At a certain point it becomes ridiculous to send papers from college.

          1. fposte*

            I’m in academia–it’s never ridiculous :-). More seriously, it’s possible that your situation is hard to map onto mine. Why can’t you send anything you’ve written for work but with the info redacted or pseudonymized?

          2. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

            Generally, at least in my field, people have worked on management plans or environmental assessments or other similar public documents, so they can usually provide something like that. Not sure what to advise you, not knowing your field.

          3. katamia*

            LOL. Yeah, this month it’s 10 years since I graduated from college, but I haven’t really done any business-type writing since then (not that I did any business-type writing in college, but I could probably still find an essay from then to send). I’ve written a ton of fiction, but I don’t think hiring managers would want to read my screenplay.

    2. JulieBulie*

      Have you ever written a multi-paragraph email to a friend, or a social media post, that explained how something worked, or gave a brief history of something that’s interesting to you, but not too embarrassing to share with a prospective employer?

      Dig that up, polish it off, remove the slang and profanity, etc. and presto, you have a writing sample.

  103. Arts Manager*

    I think I’m going to be offered a job in the next few days (checking references) – and I fell really lukewarm about the role. I only applied because I’m feeling desperate to leave toxic current job and can’t afford to not work (or I would have quit without something else lined up). It pays roughly the same, less generous benefits, but a much more clearly defined role – one aspect of one project instead of all aspects of four projects and would require far fewer hours on my part (exempt, working about ~55 a week). I’m also about to enter my 2nd year of grad school. I guess I’m looking for some opinions on the pros/cons of holding out for a better offer vs. taking a job that will be fine, but not great. (It’s loosely related to grad school and will give me a view from the other side of the industry that I think could be useful down the road). Large touring vs. small presenting in the arts.

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I think toxic current job is making you a little generally pessimistic about work in general. Lukewarm is better than scalding, no? I’d get a little more experience, enjoy not working for lunatics, and not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

      1. JulieBulie*

        I agree. I don’t see any downside to this new job at all, nor any benefit to staying in a place that may be corroding your spirit.

  104. Charlatan*

    I need help from those who schedule meetings, especially meetings with a lot of people.

    I need a useful but free or extremely low cost solution (I work in government so not a lot of available funds) to help me schedule meetings. I currently use Doodle which is great, but if there are better options I’d like to hear about them.

    I also would appreciate any tips on how you go about meetings with those outside your own organization. I can track down my own agency’s folks but am having difficulty figuring out how to get it done with people outside my org without spending far too much of my own time doing it. Is that a pipe dream?

    2. Epsilon Delta*

      Check the availability of your coworkers and pick 3-4 time slots that work for them. Propose those to the external people and let them pick one that works. If none of the times work, then they should propose some new times.

  105. Not Rebee*

    Started a new job this week and boy am I loving it. Hands down haven’t had a first week this great – and not missing my former job with my sometimes problematic coworkers at all. Old Job was a place of nice people but they were all incompetent/inefficient/inexpert workers which made things unnecessarily difficult. Add in a large company and unwieldy reporting structure.. New Job is a small company, and a startup, and everyone wants to make it be the best it can be. It’s such a nice change.

    (Exhausting first week though – yay weekend!)

  106. TSG*

    I work in a major city that is fortunate to have a large medial center that caters specifically to the LGBT+ community. I’m a patient there, both for my primary medical care and for counseling (though the counseling is mostly prescription refills).

    However, they also have a large advocacy and outreach group that frequently hires for marketing position’s I’m very well qualified for. I’d LOVE to be able to use my skills to impact a cause I’m passionate about and that affects me, and the advocacy group is rather separated from their medical services department. But would it be weird for me to apply for a job that’s essentially at my doctor’s office, especially since I also go for counseling services? I feel like that wouldn’t be appropriate, but if they services my community and want to hire from people in my community I assume there would be some overlap?

    If it’s not out of line to apply for position there, would it likely strengthen or hurt my case to say that as a patient I love XYZ about what they do, or would it not even matter either way?

    1. Manders*

      I interviewed for a job with my dental insurance provider and I think it was a plus that I was a customer. Marketing is one of those fields where it’s almost always a plus to hire someone who’s an enthusiastic user of your service.

      Plus, when you work at a medical center, your employee insurance will be one that the medical center takes, so it’s normal to start going to that center for care even if you weren’t a patient previously.

    2. Princess Carolyn*

      It’s definitely not weird to apply, and it’s unlikely that anyone making the hiring decisions would even know you’re a patient unless you choose to disclose that. Obviously someone in the building has access to those records, but probably not anyone in HR or marketing.

      Would you be able to change providers if you got the job and felt uncomfortable continuing to get services there? I suspect it’s fairly normal for employees to get treatment there, but you may feel more comfortable knowing you have options.

    3. HannahS*

      I don’t think it would matter, especially because it’s a large health centre. It would be different if you, like, became the admin in your own doctor’s small clinic. But as long as none of the people that actually treat you are your bosses or colleagues, it shouldn’t matter at all.

  107. Danae*

    So I’m discussing a job with a local company that I know reasonably well. Salary came up in the phone screen, and I gave them a range that’s a few dollars more an hour than my salary at my former job, and added that I do look at total compensation. (I especially look at health care costs and PTO.) Standard negotiation opening, basically.

    And then things got…weird. Instead of the screener giving any real indication of what the actual salary range is for this job (is my target too high? Too low? -Way- too high?), he asked me to think about it and get back to him with a firmer range. I get the impression that I’m a little high for them, but he didn’t give me any indication about *what the job actually pays*. I know you have a salary range in mind for this position, people! Just let me know what it is so I can decide if it’s worth it to negotiate.

    (It may be worth noting that this company is well-known in the area for not paying well. I am proceeding with caution.)

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      He’s hoping you’ll come down. He figures it he lets you squirm, you’ll give. If you really are interested in this tell them you need details about the benefits package before you can name a firm number.

      1. Danae*

        I actually asked for and received benefits information, then got back to him with a (slightly) revised salary expectation. (The health insurance isn’t great and there’s no PTO.) I still haven’t gotten any indication about what they actually want to pay for this position.

        I’m proceeding, but keeping my eyes open.

    2. CM*

      Just because they asked doesn’t mean you have to say anything.
      You can stick with your range and say you’re looking forward to getting more information from him.

    3. ..Kat..*

      With lousy health insurance and no PTO, I hope you told them that in order to make up for this, your salary requirements are higher!

  108. Cushy-ness*

    Always appreciate all comments and posts here. I posted this in the previous thread and now adding here as it’s more relevant.

    I recently accepted an offer with a former employer after a very difficulty decision between two very solid offers. I knew in my gut that the other offer was better for my career, in a role I liked and fit in well, with solid team members. But because I had been recently laid off, I chose the safe route in a role that doesn’t suit my strengths and is, well, boring and cushy. I regret it, and I tried to request the other offer after 3 days I had declined. Unfortunately, they wouldn’t take me back.

    Now a week into my new role, I realize this job is what I feared – it’s too boring, too familiar, and unchallenging despite the pay increase, title hike, and benefits.

    Question: Has anyone ever been in this situation and decided to look for a new role?

    I know in my gut this is the wrong job fit, despite the great team members. I’m in a role I know a senior analyst could perform, will learn nothing new and want to return to a high-growth, tech company.

    Thanks in advance!

    1. fposte*

      Hi, Cushy, glad you came back!

      I can’t tell if you’re talking about starting to search again or quitting outright. If the latter, there’s something to be said for doing it fast–the new company can extend an offer to their second-choice candidate and both you and the company just pretend the whole thing never happened.

      If the former, you’re going to have to weigh your job history; I suspect you probably have some solid history to get to the level you are and can afford a small digression, but you’re probably going to raise some eyebrows in searching so soon and you’re going to want to be able to politely answer those questions.

      And I would do a little soul-searching, because that’s a double-whammy of non-buyer’s and buyer’s regret here (and if you’re in a small industry, the turndown and “Wait, I want it” may have gotten around); that looks some hasty decision-making that you want to figure your way past to avoid doing it again.

      1. Cushy-ness*

        Thanks fposte! I appreciate the feedback again.

        To add more color, I would be searching again vs. quitting outright. For this role, they were not interviewing anyone else as I was communicating with a contact who works there. But realizing a week in, this job just won’t make me happy and I now understand why people don’t return to former employers. I do know someone who would be a good fit and could get them to interview with the company (be better fit as this person wants to work here).

        Prior to this current role, I was in my last role for 5 years and with my former employer nearly 3. All of them I was promoted quickly with increasing responsibilities; the layoff was non-perfomance related and result of decentralizing operations (sucked). The layoff really killed my confidence as just few months back I was directly supporting the CFO of the company.

        And yes, agree, I’ve been doing lots of soul-searching as a result of this experience. In the midst of all this, I was planning entrepreneurial ventures, received four job offers in the same week and managing my volunteering hours. Nonetheless, I admit I made a mistake.

        Hope this adds some color I missed earlier.

        1. fposte*

          That’s maybe a little shorter than I thought, but it’s still pretty solid; I still think staying for a year would be better, but it sounds like you’re pretty set on hunting now. So be prepared to deal with the ripples: you’d have to manage the quick bail carefully in communications with prospective employers, and be supersuper-discreet when you search, because your current employer is going to be *really* unhappy that you’re looking to leave them after a week. Like, possibly termination-level unhappy, and that’s going to be a much tougher situation to explain while job-hunting.

          While it’s nice to recommend somebody, I would be really, really low key on that, as you’re really not in a position to direct their hiring and you don’t want to make it sound like “it’s no big because somebody I know can pick up where I leave off.”

  109. Anon Accountant*

    Our secretary has completely thrown us for a loop. Yesterday she announced, and I do mean announced, our office is closing at 4:00 for cinco de mayo today. And she’s bringing margarita stuff. We have 3 people out of 12 that don’t drink for various reasons. She announced she would see to it we “ALL had 1”.

    The managing partner told her she can close down at 4:55 and move it to her house. Well the margarita stuff is HERE. Chilling in the fridge for her “party” at 4.

    1. Anon Accountant*

      She told Fergus, managing partner, “it’s okay because we aren’t busy here Friday afternoons anyway”.

      For perspective she was hired because of nepotism. I just can’t even think right now.

      1. Emma*

        WTF! I’d just not drink the margaritas, sit back, and see what happens. It definitely makes for interesting stories!

        1. Anon Accountant*

          Def! I’m interested to see what actually happens this afternoon. (I can’t drink for health reasons) but will def post about what happens, including if they stay here long enough this afternoon to stop her from having her “party”.

          1. Master Bean Counter*

            What time zone are you in? I need to know because I’ll be back here for the live report. ;)

              1. Blue eagle*

                This comment is probably too late to help Anon Accountant for this year, but Jose Cuervo makes a Margarita Mix that you add to Tequila – – so, people who don’t drink alcohol can be part of the party spirit by just drinking the mix (it’s very tasty by itself).

                And for those who prefer some Tequila in the Margarita Mix and don’t want to buy two separate bottles, Jose Cuervo also makes that (and it is very tasty as well). Hmmm, going to run out to the store now to buy some and share with friends.

      2. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

        Does this person think she’s the boss or something?

        1. Anon Accountant*

          Yes! She literally does. Or acts like it. She is a troublemaker from many of her other behaviors. This is just the latest and the most outrageous to date. She’s been here for just a year.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      WTF

      Her supervisor needs to have a very clear conversation with her about how this is Not Okay.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Does the supervisor know? If not, I think you or someone else should tell them.

          1. Anon Accountant*

            Oh yes. We are a small firm, about 15 total, and the managing partner and other 2 partners know. One left to go to a client’s office and 1 isn’t here. The managing partner is mad but hasn’t outright told her “no don’t do it” or this is unacceptable.

            2. SophieChotek*

              Sounds like another instance of a manager not managing…oh well…just sit and drink (or not) the margaritas.

      1. Anon Accountant*

        It was but just for her. No one else was interested in having a margarita while still there. Lol

    4. Anon Accountant*

      Well it’s a disappointing update. Almost all the other staff left before she could have her party. Fergus stayed until after 4 then left. Others left right after he did. At 4:30 she told the remaining 2 of us that it was margarita time and to round everybody up. Well we were everybody and neither of us were drinking.

      She was upset because her party didn’t go as planned and no one wanted to stay and party with her. Wish I had a more fun update to share.

      1. Master Bean Counter*

        That’s actually a cool update. Thanks for staying to see how it would play out. Sounds like it was a margarita pity party for one.

  110. Worried Admin*

    I have a weird situation I need some thoughts on. I work in teapot finances (aka, something within the realm of financial services) as an office admin. It’s a small family-owned business, and one of the owners has a spouse with severe Alzheimer’s. They bring this spouse into work most days, as they can’t be left alone. There are many issues with this (i.e., staff being expected to “catch” spouse if they “escape” building and wander off, as they have done many times – or spouse taking client info directly from clients who have no idea of the situation – not to mention the issues in the bathroom caused by them not closing stall doors, making messes). The most pressing issue to my mind, however, is that they have entered a phase of stealing things. It’s not REALLY stealing, it’s more like a magpie – picking things up, and hiding them. This started with picking up employee belongings off of desks, or making off with a stapler – but recently they “stole” a check. This was blamed on me for months because no one knew where the money had gone, and the client who had paid us was upset. Eventually the money was discovered in a book at the owner’s home, and they brought it to me in a hush-hush sort of way.

    I have voiced that I am uncomfortable with the spouse being around sensitive financial documents. They have access to an entire office’s worth of client data, and anything could get picked up at any time. I have spoken my concerns with this issue to my supervisors and they’re just not going to address it. Do I have any sort of obligation to disclose this information to governing boards? (We are licensed via some oversight things, as well as insured against business lawsuits). I feel awful lying to clients when I take their info, as they assume it’s safe and secure with us when I know it’s not. I am already job searching but this is causing me a lot of stress in the meantime. Any thoughts?

    1. Emma*

      If you have some sort of filing cabinet that you can lock, I’d do that. If you have a door, I’d also lock it each time you leave (even to leave for the bathroom). If you really want to, if there’s a way to anonymously report it to a governing board, I’d do that (or maybe even wait until after you’ve left this job). Otherwise, I’d get the hell out of there as it sounds like you’re doing.

    2. Miss Nomer*

      Not much advice, other than trying one more time to be firm/bring it one level up from last time. Maybe pointing out that this could have real consequences for the business as a whole if a client or someone governing you found out, or if she hides work, etc. If I thought the owner wasn’t aware, I’d look for a polite way to let him know, but since the check was at his house, he knows and just doesn’t care, which is awful. Good luck – I hope this gets resolved!

      1. Worried Admin*

        Thanks, Emma and Miss Nomer. I work in an open area, but I have asked for a lock on my desk drawers. Supposedly that will be worked on soon. I’ve also stated very clearly “If clients knew about this, we would lose them” to multiple senior-level people.

        I think right now my plan will be to get out and when I’m gone, consider reporting to governing board. It’s so hard to do that because I feel for the spouse AND this is a small town where they’d probably know I did it, but…it feels like the right thing to do, for the clients.

    3. Malibu Stacey*

      I’m an admin in Financial Services and I think a best practice with checks and client data is basically to have it in a locked drawer or cabinet when it’s not literally in your possession and be the only keyholder (or have one other employee have a copy in case you are sick unexpectedly or get run over by a bus or something).

    4. Shamy*

      Oh gosh, this is such an untenable situation in the long-term. My heart goes out to everyone in this situation. I’m not sure about reporting to governing boards, but it seems like some concrete steps need to be taken. Can the filing cabinets be locked or perhaps a desk drawer for sensitive documents and payments? Are they taking info over the phone from clients or in person? I was wondering if all phone calls could be forwarded to a central cell phone or something if it is a phone issue.

      On another note, I am extremely concerned for the person with alzheimers as well as everyone else. There are so many liability issues, here being expected to “catch” the person. What if they or someone else gets hurt? It sounds like this person really needs more specialized care than they are getting. I believe many insurances and medicare sometimes cover a home aid. Maybe contact some sot of social services agency for advice. It is really only a matter of time before this gets disastrous. I have no good advice other than to just keep job searching. I actually think this would be a great question for AAM and I hope she or others will chime in with better suggestions.

      2. Worried Admin*

        I’m concerned for the Alzheimer’s patient every day – some days it stresses me out so much that I’m constantly keeping track of her. She’s left the building before and I’ve had to chase her. Once she left a building they were in for a client meeting and we spent hours calling around to try and find out if anyone saw her. Luckily she was found, but it’s just so crazy to have this be an ongoing situation!

    5. ..Kat..*

      I am concerned about them accusing you publicly, but being hush hush about the resolution. Your reputation is valuable. I recommend insisting on them publicly exonerating you – and apologizing.

      1. Worried Admin*

        They won’t apologize – it was laughed off when the truth was discovered. But…I have accepted another job offer! I’ll be giving notice tomorrow. I’m sad for the couple at the center of this but so relieved it will no longer be my problem!

    6. Relly*

      As someone who had two grandparents suffer from Alzheimer’s, my heart bleeds for Owner and Spouse. But this situation has “catastrophe” written all over it.

      Owner is not being realistic here. Spouse could slip out unnoticed and get lost. Spouse could fall in the restroom and get hurt. Even worse, sometimes people with dementia react badly to the confusion and frustration — one of my grandparents became belligerent, even occasionally violent. What happens if Spouse needs to be physically prevented from going outside? What happens if Spouse throws a punch at an employee? A client?

      1. Worried Admin*

        This has been my biggest concern, too! I don’t understand how the other partners in the business aren’t coming up with solutions.

  111. T3k*

    So phone interview went well enough I think. Main concern is that I won’t hear anything for another 2-3 weeks, and even if I move on to the next round, they won’t be hiring for at least 5 weeks out (space is limited atm there).
    Question is, should I send a thank you email if the phone interview was really just them clarifying the position/what the company does?

    2. SeekingBetter*

      Nope. Save your thank-you emails for in-person interviews. It worked for me when I was job searching.

  112. Ashie*

    We picked our person and my department is doubling in size from one to two! So excited!

    1. Ashie*

      OK, I spoke a little too soon because I still need to call references. Haven’t done that in a long time, and never for a professional position. Any tips or suggestions for things to ask?

      1. Director of Things*

        I just did a reference call this morning!
        I asked some pretty basic questions like strengths, weaknesses, interpersonal relationships with peers vs managers, what’s it like working with him day-to-day. I am hiring this as mainly a support position, so I asked how he did at similar tasks in previous job, as well as asked how willing/eager he’d be to do admin/clerical work. Finally asked if the manager would work with him again.
        (I should say this was a semi-internal candidate – he was applying from another division/location that is being closed this summer so I was able to speak with his current manager without awkwardness, plus I knew a fair amount about his current role).
        I had a list of maybe 6-8 questions prepped, but a lot of the manager’s responses prompted ideas for follow up questions.
        Good luck!

      2. Jillociraptor*

        Some of my favorites:
        – “What advice would you give me for being an effective manager for this person and helping them grow?”
        – “What advice would you give me for what to coach or support this person on right away?”
        – “What do you think will be the things that this person will excel at right away? What will they need some support to take on?”

        I found that asking this way was much more helpful for hearing actual weaknesses than asking directly.

        I hope your person works out!

        1. Chaordic One*

          I love your questions, Jillociraptor. They’re all so positive and you’re probably right about how they will be more helpful for hearing about actual weaknesses.

  113. WhichSister*

    I am in training and development, and I have two completely different certifications that can be marketed to other organizations. i.e. one is around how to teach people to safely serve tea. The other is leadership assessment and development for those in teapot leadership)
    I just received word that the second certification is complete. I am now wondering how to proceed with doing some independent training on the side (as long as its not one of my employer’s direct competitors.) The 2nd certification even has a place for advertising your services.
    Has anyone ever started side consulting from scratch? How would advice I start?

  114. Miss Nomer*

    Hello AAM folks,
    I’m a constant lurker/rare commenter her, and was hoping to get some ideas from the community. In a couple weeks, I’ll be returning full time to a job that I previously went part time at for various reasons. Last time I wasn’t always super happy. So, my question to you is, do you have any “new job” rituals that help make the transition easier/more comfortable? Or any advice on preventing burnout when you have a long commute/work long hours? Some of my ideas are:
    *Bring pictures of my family to personalize my desk so I don’t feel like a robot all week
    *Take a short walk at lunch whenever possible
    *Actually use vacation time, and completely disconnect when I do
    *Try as hard as I can not to stay later than necessary – this one seems like a no brainer but the culture is sort of “well so and so works extra hours….”

    Any other thoughts/ideas/sage advice is greatly appreciated. I need to make this work for at least a little while.

    1. Emma*

      I joined a carpool, which has made my 45 minute commute much better! I also love lunchtime walks, and I also got some cute office supplies/tools for my office from Target, like a gold stapler.

      1. Miss Nomer*

        I think these are all great ideas! I should check into carpooling. Do you carpool with coworkers or is it more of a random thing?

    2. Manders*

      Ooh, this is a great idea. I have a bad habit of never bringing anything personal to work and then feeling like my desk isn’t really my space.

      My techniques:
      – Changing my desktop wallpaper to something that references a movie I enjoy
      – Finding a nice sunny lunch spot outside, preferably near some trees or flowers
      – Changing out of my work clothes as soon as I get home

      I’m, uh, still working on convincing myself to use vacation time for actual vacations instead of hoarding it for sickness/caretaking/chores.

      1. Trix*

        Yes to the desktop wallpaper! It’s amazing the difference that makes. I’ve been at my current desk for a month, and I knew it would be short term before I move on to a much better role (on Monday, yay!), so I intentionally haven’t changed the default.

        That’ll be one of the first things I do to get settled in my new space on Monday.

        1. Miss Nomer*

          These are great ideas! I hadn’t thought of it. I feel like personalizing my space will make it feel more tolerable. I never thought to change out of my work clothes, which is crazy because they’re not exactly super comfortable.

    3. Lilo*

      I would add: create a coffee/tea/beverage of your choice ritual. If it is finding a place near work to get coffee or bringing in your French press or tea maker or whatever, I have found it is the best little de-stressor.

      1. Miss Nomer*

        One thing I love is water with fresh fruit in it…I wonder if it would be too weird to pop over to the kitchen and cut off a slice of orange every so often? I do really like tea, so I’m going to bring some in!

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      Try to find at least one person at work you like. They don’t have to be your bestie or anything, but I find that having a good rapport with one or two coworkers who I genuinely like makes my day to day work life much better.

      1. Miss Nomer*

        Did you actively cultivate the rapport, or was it sort of an organic thing? My coworkers are much less outgoing than I am, and I’m not sure if it would be weird to ask them lunch once a quarter or something.

      2. Chaordic One*

        Back at Dysfunctional Teapots, Ltd. the shipping/mail clerk was the de facto office counselor, a combination of Deanna Troi and Guinan. Much more empathetic than anyone in H.R.

  115. Witty City*

    I’ve seen mention before of checking up on references by having someone call and pretend to be doing a reference check. I had a friend do that this past week and it was a very enlightening experience for us both. It wasn’t a bad reference overall and most of it was praising my work. But in response to a question about challenges or ways I could improve, he said something I would argue isn’t true. It was especially problematic because he wasn’t fully explaining the dysfunctional organizational context in which that perceived challenged developed. He also mentioned this two other times at different points in the reference, which I didn’t find necessary at all.

    I’m dumping him as a reference and using someone else. I thought about talking with him or coaching him, but the truth is that I don’t trust him and would rather use someone solid.

    Anyway, I *highly* recommend this exercise if you have any doubts. We put together a thorough backstory and my friend really prepped so it went off without a hitch.

    1. BigSigh*

      What an interesting suggestion!!

      A friend on mine had lost out on two positions AFTER the reference check, which we couldn’t figure out aside from someone not being kind/truthful. This would be a great way to ferret out who is getting his offers pulled.

  116. zora*

    Celebrating remote employees, looking for ideas!

    We just recently found out we have budget for employee birthdays (part of the being acquired last year and slowly getting operational budgets sorted out one long dragged out step at a time). We had one birthday in our office recently, and I got balloons, drew a banner (we have glass walls), and a small treat to share in the afternoon. All together about $25, great. And I took pictures and sent them around to our team so that remote employees all saw and got to say Happy Birthday.

    However, some of the employees based at our site actually work remotely from home offices. And I’m kind of at a loss for what to do for them on their birthdays that keeps them part of the team. The only thing I can think of that is easy and meets the budget is sending them a small bouquet of flowers, but is that too boring? Any ideas for what we could do/send to remote employees the week of their birthdays that will stay in the $25 range?

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      You could invite them to a Skype meeting where everybody in the office gets together in a conference room to say hi and sing happy birthday, then send them a Starbucks gift card or something. Generally my employer is pretty low-key on birthdays, so I usually just do an email and a gift card (everybody I work with is remote).

      1. TheSockMonkey*

        The skype thing is a good idea, but if you are doing some kind of gift or treat, give them a choice of several things within a price range. (Some people are allergic to flowers, some don’t drink coffee, etc.)

      2. zora*

        People here would be pretty horrified at the actual singing thing ;o) a quick “Happy Birthday! yay. Doing anything fun tonight? Ok, cool, back to work.” Is about as much as everyone here can handle, which is fine with me.

        But I have been wanting to encourage more skype meeting with our team rather than just conference calls, so this could be a good way to start. Email and gift card sounds good, too, I was just worried that didnt’ seem very creative, but I think folks here are pretty lowkey, too.

        Thanks!

    2. Red Reader*

      My whole team is remote and our manager sent everyone gift cards for Christmas – I think she tailored them somewhat based on conversations she’d had with people. My little sister and I go out to lunch at Steak and Shake a couple times a month, which she knows, so my gift card was for S&S. My co-lead likes to take her grandkids out to Dairy Queen for a treat, so hers was for DQ, and so on.

      Another couple ideas for remote (or partially remote) teams: at Halloween, we had everyone (“everyone” meaning “everyone who wanted to participate,” these are all optional) send in pics of their kids, pets, etc, and I threw together a powerpoint and sent it around as a “Virtual Halloween Parade”. At Thanksgiving, we did a “virtual pitch-in” — Everyone sent in their favorite Thanksgiving recipe and I compiled them to share with the team.

      1. ..Kat..*

        Wow. I really like the Halloween and Thanksgiving ideas. And that they are not mandatory.

  117. SeptemberGrrl*

    Not looking for advice, just a place to vent and a sympathetic ear or two. I’ve been unemployed for a year and I wrung out. I was laid off last year and I knew given my age (50+) , my employment status (UN), job category (mid-level manager), and previous compensation ($115K), I was in for a very long haul, so I was prepared. But I did think I would have something within 9-12 months.

    The combination of hitting the one year mark and being ghosted on a job that would have been just what I needed and for which I was well-qualified, that’s hit me hard. As a side note, this election and subsequent events have been and continue to be, depressing and soul-crushing for me. I mention that because it hasn’t been a great confluence of events for me to have so much free time to stay informed.

    I would be as thrilled with a job that was a $40K pay cut and a lower-title, as I would with a comparable job. I can’t get either.

    I’m angry, frustrated, depressed and sad but I get up every day and put one foot in front of the other and keep doing the same thing (job-hunting) and expecting different results (getting a job) so maybe it’s no wonder I’m feeling a bit spent.

    1. The Not Mad But Occasionally Irritable Scientist*

      I got nothing but sympathy for you. Having been unemployed for just 9 months before, it was a hell of a struggle – and that was without living with my head in a free-floating cloud of rage and dismay every day. It was even worse because I was the 2nd place finalist for an amazing job less than a month after I left my term position, and I couldn’t let go of how close I’d come to not being unemployed at all.

      One thing that helped me was taking up a hobby (in my case, getting back into climbing) and volunteering (I taught seminars at a local museum). Breaking up “job search days” with “teaching days” really, really helped. Being physically active was awesome too.

    2. Manders*

      Ugh, that’s awful. I think the best workers are the ones who suffer the most during long period of unemployment–you’ve got all that energy and work ethic, but no outlet for it. And yeah, the general political vibe right now is not kind to people who are struggling to find work or who aren’t straight, white, male, middle-aged, employed, and wealthy.

      Do you have some hobbies that get you out of the house? For me, the worst part of unemployment was the fact that my days completely lost their structure and I had no reason to wake up on time or change out of my PJs.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      There is nothing more soul crushing then looking for work. I would second suggestions to find a way to volunteer. It gives you something you add to your resume and when things are hard to me, I find helping others often gives me a lift that I need. Volunteering kept be going through an unemployment period and a super toxic job.

      Good luck on your hunt.

    4. SeptemberGrrl*

      Thanks for the support, appreciate it. I’ve been able to do more volunteering with a couple of groups I was already involved with, and that’s been very enjoyable. I had a long spell of unemployment about 15 years ago and learned a lot about how to cope and that I should enjoy the freedom part of it as best I can (given the monetary restrictions i.e. I can’t go on a month long trip around the world).

      I think what is at the heart of how I’m feeling is the recognition that my age is such a huge factor. I really wonder if I will ever get another job in my field, at even half my previous salary. I know of many instances of people in my situation – laid off at 50+ and never worked again in a ‘career’ sense.

      1. Tmarie*

        I lost my job in 2012 because of downsizing. Shortly after my amazing severance package ended, I took a job (-$20k salary) in state government that was a horrid fit. I was laid off from that job in late 2013.

        I spent 2 years looking for something, anything in a mid-range accountant (non-CPA) role and finally lucked out and found a job.

        My current position, after starting as a temp, became permanent 60 days later, and I was offered the same wage I had from my last good job. During my unemployment, my 401k suffered, and I was thisclose to panic about financial stuff, but now, I’m SO FREAKING HAPPY at my job. I love the people, the work, even my commute (a vanpool) is fun.

        I was over 50 when the state laid me off, and 52 when I started this job. Stay strong!

        1. SeptemberGrrl*

          Glad everything worked out for you! Sounds like you landed somewhere just right.

          1. Tmarie*

            I have my fingers crossed for you too. Job hunting when you are mid-level plus over 50 is not for the faint of heart! Good luck!

    5. PiperHome*

      Thanks for posting this. I was also laid off last year a couple weeks after the election. Having those two things happen at the same time was both distracting and disheartening. To add to it all, I live in a part of the country with cold, gray winters and so I found myself hibernating, keeping up too closely on the news, binge watching streaming TV, and getting depressed. I just found it very hard to get myself together (I left a very toxic job) and start job hunting while it felt like things much bigger than me were happening. I’m also starting to feel the impacts of age (I’m in my mid-40s) perceived or real so that’s also shaking my confidence a bit.

      I wish you the best of luck and send good vibes your way. It’s an exhausting process. Hang in there.

      1. SeptemberGrrl*

        I’m in New England, and yes, winter + post-election depression + unemployment was a potent mix. Our winter was not that bad this year, compared to others in recent memory so at least there’s that. The position I left had become increasingly unpleasant and negative for me and it was several months before I truly felt free of the aftereffects of that.

        I wish you the best of luck as well :)

    6. Anonymous for this*

      I certainly understand the feeling. This past week, I had the most frustrating experience. I’m also over 50. In desperation I applied for one of the very few job training programs left. The program is unusual in that it provides a low wage while the training is provided. I really think that I have more than adequate job skills, but if this might help me, then great.

      Anyway, the program depended on having a low household income. Because I have been unemployed I ended up moving in with my parents. Their income would have to be included as part my household income and together the three of us have an income that is too high for me to be included in the program. I had thought about fibbing on the application, but I starting having anxiety attacks about it, so I’m not going to be proceeding with the application.

      1. SeptemberGrrl*

        Ugh, red tape. That sounds incredibly frustrating. I know many people wouldn’t hesitate to fib (and in this case, I would have no moral qualms about it) but I’m with you; the anxiety of it wouldn’t end up being worth it for me.

    7. SeekingBetter*

      I totally can relate to your struggles. I was officially out of a job for a year before I found my current position. I’m sorry to hear about your frustration with your search. If you aren’t volunteering now, you can definitely find plenty of nonprofit organizations in your area who need some help. If you prefer to do remote volunteer work, depending on your skillset, you may be able to work a volunteer role entirely from your computer or home so you don’t have to spend gas money or transportation costs to go to a site. Good luck!

  118. Ama*

    Quarter-life career crisis! I’ve toyed with the idea of becoming a management consultant. I know my best bet is to get an MBA and go for b-school recruiting. But I’m also worried that I’ll burn out pretty quickly. I don’t want to spend 100k+ on an MBA and then only make it 2 years — the lost income while being in school plus the cost of school wipes out any ROI I’d make on the increased salary. Has anyone struggled with a decision like this? What factors do you consider to make up your mind?

    1. gwal*

      Maybe you could try to find an internship with such a company before jumping in fully to a grad program? You might only be able to find low-paid options but this or an entry level job would still require less of a financial burden than a full MBA program. Then you would have a leg-up for the MBA program application process, if you do decide to move forward with it.

      There is also a school of thought that “entry level management consultant” should be an oxymoron and the field should be comprised primarily of individuals with management experience, but do what you think works for you!

    2. kaybee*

      WTH grad school are you looking at that costs 100k+? Many top-notch grad schools now have online programs (at one point in time you had to have so many years of work experience before even applying) that are less than $30K – they’re not Ivy League, but they’re rated highly. I’m debating between MBA programs and Masters in management programs and I’ll be doing it just like I’m doing with undergrad (where I’m squeezing 4 years’ worth of classes into 2 years – I graduate in August, else I would jump out a window, because I can’t take it much longer) – while working 40+ hours a week and volunteering. (I feel like I’m sounding mean, but I’m really not trying to.)

      It’s not an either/or proposition. Some accredited MBA programs are 15 months and meant for people who work full-time. There are options other than to quit working an enter a full-time program – because there would definitely be a loss of ROI if you did this – job experience in the early career trumps grad school most of the time, especially in business, because you won’t be able to relate learned principles to real-life situations.

    3. ..Kat..*

      There are MBA programs that are tailored for working people. I earned an MBA the old fashioned way (yes, really, for those of you who remember that I am a former computer programmer who is now a bedside nurse. I didn’t know what I wanted to be when I grew up!). But my school also offered an “executive ” MBA program. They had classes evenings and Saturdays.

  119. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    A frustrating first-world problem.

    Trying to segue into a quasi-legal career. Currently a consultant doing attorney-type analyses. However, all firms and law firm partners I’ve politely cold-emailed state while my credentials are impressive, I need a “Law Clerk” role or “In-House” or “Contract Specialist” role before they’d consider hiring me. That means taking a job that pays far less than what I make now ($8k-$10k pay decrease). Has anyone gone through this before? Ideas?

    I mean, one would think analyzing policy would get an in-roads, plus licensure, and experience up the wazoo, and I already have (informal) clerking experience from years ago…

    Tl;dr: Nobody thinks my credentials are worth anything or marketable….except for the job I currently have.

    1. CAA*

      It sounds like you must go through the lower paying job to get to the one you want in the end. From what you wrote here, I don’t see a way that you can force people to recognize your current experience as equivalent to the experience they want you to have.

      I’ve taken pay cuts twice when moving to new positions; once it was to get more interesting work and once as an opportunity for future growth. Both times it did end up leading to a higher paying job within 18 months, so it worked out for me. I have a partner who was very supportive, and in our case, the lower pay just meant that we’d be saving less but we wouldn’t have to curtail our normal spending. In one case, the lower paying job had a shorter commute that naturally led to lower spending (more time to cook so eating in more, less gas cost, lower car insurance).

      You (and your partner if you have one) need to analyze the pros and cons and decide whether this is something you can manage.

      1. Carmen Sandiego JD*

        Thanks for the tips–that definitely helps. Unfortunately, if I were taking a lower-paying though more relevant job, my commute would get more expensive *and* longer (I currently walk to work, which is really nice). Also, my SO and I aren’t engaged yet and we live in 2 different states. Plus I’m paying for my apt 100% on my own. To take the lesser-paying job means less disposable income, barely squeaking by on paying rent (and it’s pretty cheap already for the area), and extending my time to repay what little left I have of law school loans.

        I wish I could figure out the best possible future path–but I literally can’t afford that path up if this is all that’s offered :/

        1. CAA*

          Ah, I’m so sorry. If you don’t take the lower paying job now, does that close off the path you want forever? Or is this something you could possibly do in the future?

          Also, if you live alone now, is there any way you could relocate temporarily to a new state where this could work better financially? I know states each have their own bars, so I’m not sure if this is even possible, but I’m just trying to do some creative thinking that might spark an idea for you.

    2. Marcy*

      Hmm this is tough–the legal professional in general and law firms in particular are pretty conservative about what is considered relevant legal experience. Once you accept a non-attorney position it is pretty hard to get back on track.
      If your current job pays more, why are you trying to segue back into a legal career? If you’re trying to ultimately get a higher paying attorney job, then I agree with CAA that you probably just need to start at the bottom of the ladder. If it’s to get in a particular field, have you considered doing pro-bono work for the experience?

  120. Dweali*

    Kind of a 2 parter…

    I’ve worked in a hospital admissions setting for 6 years (I’m the person who does all the paperwork with you, gets your insurance info, creates your chart for the visit, and makes sure your computer location matches your physical location…well there’s more but that’s the jist) and am studying for a Medical coding certificate. Most of the job postings (for remote settings) I’m seeing say they want someone with 3 years experience…given that I don’t look up codes currently would my experience still count? I know this might vary between employers but was hoping there might be a general consensus.

    Also any tips for good working from home habits/practices for when I do get to that point? I know that optimally there is a second room/out of the way place I can use for an office, computer with enough power/specs for what the employer requires, internet, and if children then some form of child care but what else am I not thinking of that I should plan for? And how flexible can working from home be (like can I work from 6 am to about 10 or 11 and then take a couple hours and start working for another 4 or so around 2 pm or generally expect to work a solid 8 all at once (minus lunch period)–this I’m sure also depends on industry and employer)?

    1. Red Reader*

      1) If the job requires coding certification, then work that doesn’t involve applying codes will almost certainly not count as experience.
      2) Depends entirely on your employer and their requirements. For me, I have to have a space with a fire extinguisher that other people do not regularly spend time in, I am not allowed to be the primary caregiver for a disabled or under-12 dependent while on the clock, and my employer provides my computer. As long as we’re not in training, we have a fully flexible schedule within some specifics: No fewer than 7 (barring PTO) and no more than 10 hours per day on the clock, you have to be approved by your manager to flex outside of M-F, and you have to do at least 3 hours per clocked-in shift. (So you could do 4/4 for a day, or 5/3, but not 2/2/4 or something.) But as long as you’re in for any mandatory call-in meetings/webinars per your manager, you can work your daily shift with 24-hour flexibility. (If you’re in training, you’re limited to M-F 6a-6p.)

      // remote coding team lead :)

      1. Red Reader*

        And in general, most of the time restrictions can be gotten around on a one-off basis via discussion with your manager in a pinch – they’re the ones paying attention to whether you’re following the rules. On my old team, when we were allowed up to 20 hours/week overtime, I broke the 10-hours-a-day rule pretty regularly (doing 5x12s), and even on 8 hour days, I’d start early and end up doing 6 hours before lunch and 2 after. The idea is that they absolutely do not want you working an 8 hour shift without a lunch.

        As far as other things: I’ve been on site this week, and what I’ve discovered is that working from home saves me like 3-4 hours a day in getting ready and commute time. Spoiled rotten, haha. :)

    2. nonegiven*

      3 years experience in medical coding. Didn’t they just change ALL the codes a years ago?

      1. Red Reader*

        Changed one of two code sets that we use, but not the theory on how to do it.

  121. Irish Em*

    Starting a new job on Monday! I am excite XD!

    I’m a little bummed that it was through the Department of Social Protection and the wage is exactly the same as the social welfare + €22 travel allowance making it just over €200 a week. I really miss having some disposable income. Hopefully I can get the job search going again after I’ve been on this one for a few months, and will have more prospects. *sigh* I hate jobseeking. I always feel at a complete disadvantage.

  122. Larina*

    In my department, there are three team leads, and me, our QA lead. All four of us report to our department head and are basically equals. While I work closely with the team leads, and often adjust my work priorities to help them complete specific projects (which I’m then in charge of the QA process for), I’m a peer to them. Last week, one of the leads, Susan, interrupted a conversation I was having with someone from a different department in my company by saying “Jane, can you leave? I really need Larina right now and she doesn’t have time for this conversation.” Jane ended up leaving and cutting our conversation short, which meant she didn’t get information she needed to work on a project for her department.

    In the moment, I was livid, and didn’t know how to respond. I felt like Susan’s demand was rude, patronizing, and generally uncalled for. I didn’t say anything to her in the moment or for the rest of the day, because I knew anything I said would not be kind or professional. Since then, I’ve not felt like I could bring up the issue with Susan, but I’m concerned that she didn’t understand how frustrating her behavior was to me. Should I just let it slide for now, and address it if something like this happens again, or should I find the time to let Susan know how demeaning her behavior was, and that I want her to treat me as a peer rather than one of the members of the team that we both oversee?

    To add some context, we were on a tight deadline, but I knew the conversation wasn’t going to take more than 10-20 minutes. And the lead who interrupted, Susan, is a much older woman with a lot more work experience, while I’m in my mid twenties.

    1. Master Bean Counter*

      “Actually Susan we’ll be finished in just a couple of minutes, please wait”
      Susan was beyond rude and a dash condescending. But I’d let it slide for now, because Susan has already forgotten. But feel free to put her off if she interrupts your conversations in the future.

    2. Sunshine Brite*

      She shouldn’t be treating anyone like that; peer, subordinate, or not. If this happened recently you should circle back and address this with her.

    3. JulieBulie*

      What Susan did was grossly inappropriate. I don’t care how old she is (unless she’s your mother, but I think you would have mentioned that). She doesn’t outrank you. If this was just a week or two ago, I think you should approach her discreetly and let her know that you expect her to respect your time and that of the other leads, just as you respect hers.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Match what is coming at you.

      “No, Susan, Jane cannot leave right now. We will be done shortly, though.”

      As to what to say to Susan simply say, “Please do not ask people to leave when they are in conversation with me.” If she hits you with but this or that, then just repeat in serious voice, “Please do not ask people to leave when they are in conversation with me.”

      One that I have used is, “Susan, I must take care of this first. I will come find you when I am done.” If she balks, just repeat the same sentences over.

      The idea here is that you do not analyze or explain. You simply say, “Do not do x.” In some ways that can have more impact than a thousand words.

    5. ..Kat..*

      Unless it was a true emergency, this was obnoxious. Did someone need CPR and you are the only one who knows how?

  123. Beloved*

    I have in an office in a library. How dirty could it get?

    OMG. So filthy.

    I’m getting a new officemate so I was rearranging desks and realized my bookcase was pretty dusty. I got some Windex and paper towels, and went to town on my bookcase, my filing cabinets, my desk, the window sills, my phone… I think I used about a whole roll of towels. I’m appalled at how dirty everything was.

    I suppose it makes sense. The housekeepers empty the trash, but that’s it for office maintenance. Note to self: Five years is too long to go between dustings.

    1. CAA*

      LOL! We are getting new carpet at home this week, and I am thoroughly disgusted by the amount of dirt I am finding, especially on the five bookcases that had to be emptied. I swear I vacuum and dust regularly.

    2. Ashie*

      This was my pet peeve when I had an office, I used to attack the place with Lysol wipes every Friday before I left for the weekend. Yuck!

    3. Epsilon Delta*

      When they reshuffled everyone’s seating assignments at work, I made sure to thoroughly dust and clean my old desk. The person whose desk I got did not return the favor.

  124. JuniorConsultant*

    I’ve been working as a junior consultant at a big company for 1,5 years. During that time I’ve acted as a project manager on several projects. I’ve been also involved in business development. To put it briefly, I’ve already performed tasks typical of senior consultants and managers. Unfortunately, in my office you have to wait about 3 years for a promotion, it doesn’t matter how good your performance reviews are (mine are excellent) and what your educational background is (it means that both people with just a B.A. and people with a Ph.D. are expected to wait exactly the same time for a promotion.

    I’m very unhappy with the situation and feel very underwhelmed with my current work. That’s why I’m currently searching for a new job. Unfortunately I only got contacted concerning junior positions. Even though the companies are mostly smaller and less well-known than the one I currently work for (i.e. they realize smaller projects and coordinating a small project is easier than coordinating a big international project).

    I’ve been told my application documents are excellent many times, so that’s definitely not a problem. Any ideas why this happens? Is it normal?

    1. fposte*

      It sounds like your documents may be excellent but your competition’s are excellenter. When you say “you got contacted” do you mean by recruiters–if so, can you ask them about your package’s viability for senior positions, and can you apply on your own to positions?

      1. JuniorConsultant*

        Hi fposte, I mean I apply for a position advertised as for example “consultant” understanding that they differentiate between “junior” and “senior” consultants. Junior consultant is an entry-level position and I have almost 2 years of experience in consulting and several more in a different area. Then I get contacted by a person telling me it would be a “junior consultant” position. Although in this industry and where I live you normally change into a “senior” position with about 2 years of experience.

        The thing is, I know my coworkers’ and Linkedin contacts’ resumes and mine is really ok. I’ve been working like crazy for the last 1,5 years taking on the most complex roles, where I was able to learn a lot, also attending plenty of trainings. As I say, I’m bored at my current position, very underwhelmed. And when I see the junior positions at the companies I’m applying at, they are always much easier than what I’ve been doing in the last months.

        I’m very frustrated by that. Any ideas what the problem may be?

        1. fposte*

          Well, the resumes to look at are the people who just got the jobs you wanted, not your co-workers. Do they have more than 1.5 years’ experience (you say it usually takes 2 before you’re no longer considered junior)? Then that’s likely relevant, no matter what level you feel you’ve been working at during those 1.5 years. If they have the same duration of experience as you, then it’s likely your presentation in the resume and application itself is letting you down.

          It also sounds like there’s a possibility that your current employer is unusual in how much senior work you’ve been doing at this level and therefore it’s tough to translate to another workplace, especially if you’re an industry where progress operates strongly by chronology. I’m not really recruiting literate, but I wonder if a recruiter could be helpful in a situation like that.

          1. JuniorConsultant*

            Yes, that’s what I mean. I compare myself with senior consultants and I can say with certainty they are not better qualified than I am. 2 years is the average without previous job experience. I have several years of previous job experience, which usually works to significantly shorten the period of waiting for a senior position.

            1. fposte*

              Then there’s a weakness in your resume (or possibly your industry reputation), or there’s some other factor (discrimination can never be completely ruled out, for instance).

              Is there somebody in the industry you can ask? Show them your application package and use LinkedIn examples–“Fergus here got the senior consultancy at TeaCo after 1 year at TeasRUs last year, but when I applied to TeaCo they said I should look at the junior openings. What do you think they were seeing?”

              1. JuniorConsultant*

                It’s definitely about gender to some extent. When I examine LinkedIn profiles that’s very clear. I’m a female and in the country I live there are few women in consulting and the “higher” the fewer. I know companies that have 20 partners and no women. I’ve had about 10 interviews so far and never met a woman during any of them. (Well, I’ve met some from HR – they organised the interview, but not even once a female manager).

                It’s a huge industry and I apply in big cities, so I’m not well-known enough to have a “reputation”. My linkedin profile reflects exactly what I put in my written resume – it’s just an electronic version of my standard resume.

                The feedbacks I receive from both my coworkers, friends and after interviews tend to be very positive. They write they “were impressed by my qualifications”, but they can’t offer me a position I’m looking for (when I discover during an interview that it’s for a junior position, I’m normally clear that I’m looking for a more senior role.

                1. fposte*

                  Oh, no. The discrimination sounds really plausible.

                  However, one caution: The different country thing means my view may be from too far away to be correct for you, but in general, the feedback you get from co-workers, friends, and after interviews is *not* going to tell you what you need to know. It tells you that your application was sufficient. That’s nice, but it doesn’t tell you why your application wasn’t *better* than other people’s, and that’s the information you really need. That’s why I suggest somebody who’s actually hiring in your industry who’s willing to speak frankly to you about ways your resume can be more competitive when compared to specific examples.

                2. JuniorConsultant*

                  I’m from Western Europe, so cultural differences in comparison to the US are not so big.

                  The feedback I received from government employees and employees of my university’s career center when I was looking for a job 2 years ago was that I should apply for managerial positions since “my resume is so great”. Yeah…

                  And I don’t think that has changed in the last 2 years given that I actually got additional experience and training.

                3. fposte*

                  Yeah, career centers suck. I really think a mentor in your field would be your best move right now, if you can find one.

                4. JuniorConsultant*

                  Given the amount of feedback I’ve received in the last years from coworkers, clients and external people I’m quite confident another person from my own field wouldn’t add anything valuable to this.

                  Especially as in consulting you always know how “marketable” you are, simply by checking how easy it is for you to find new roles after finishing previous ones. I’m 100% chargeable and finding roles for me is super easy. I’ve already had managers fighting about who can have me on their project. I’m very easy to sell it seems. As a junior consultant.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      When you’re in consulting, gray hair can matter. That would be my guess. They may have concerns that their clients won’t be receptive to a very young person leading their projects. I’ve had my mgmt hesitate to put me as the PM on consulting engineering proposals because while I have 17 yrs experience, our competitors’ PMs may have 30 yrs experience.

      1. JuniorConsultant*

        The thing is I’m not so young. I had several jobs in a different area before switching to consulting, so I’m actually older than most junior consultants, not younger.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          Well, you didn’t say that. : )

          Maybe they know something you don’t. I’ve recently interviewed a bunch of really well-qualified candidates who weren’t that well-qualified for our specific work. I mostly work on small projects, and some of the candidates didn’t pay heed to when we tried to dig into their capabilities in managing small projects (it’s much more intimate work with your staff). Others “PM’d” larger and smaller work, but they were really contracted managers, where they didn’t manage staff and production of deliverables. All these people would have gotten feedback that they were strong candidates. Maybe you can get feedback on the specifics from someone who has contacted you.

          1. AnotherAlison*

            “Contracted managers” was supposed to be “contract manager”, meaning they had a bunch of vendors doing work, but the vendors had their own internal PMs who were managing the production of work.

          2. JuniorConsultant*

            You know, I’ve been asked specific questions like that (for example “You have this and that project to coordinate. How do you go about it?”). And I have never been turned down after interviews based on this type of questions. It’s more like even though I answer well they suppose the interview is for a junior position, not a senior one.

            I’ve already travelled like 1000 km (sorry, I’m from Europe ;) for an interview to learn it was for a junior position paid lower than my current job…

            1. AnotherAlison*

              How do you know you’re answering it well? I had a candidate that I felt didn’t really understand the job, and I asked him to describe how he would envision a typical week in this job. He didn’t say anything that I was looking for, but he said it with great confidence, and I’m fairly certain he felt he answered it well. It didn’t require follow-up questions that would have signaled that he didn’t answer it well.

              I think you need to try to get more feedback, and you should also clarify what job you are interviewing for ahead of time. Make sure your cover letter says you’re looking for “Senior Consultant” positions. When the interviewer says they’re calling you for a junior position, or they offer a junior position, ask them for specific differences between junior/senior roles, and what qualifications they would need you to have to be considered for a senior role.

              1. JuniorConsultant*

                “How do you know you’re answering it well? ”

                Because they invite me to further interviews. I agree with you that self-assessment is not always reliable, but in this case it seems to be.

                Thanks a lot for your suggestion (“ask them for specific differences between junior/senior roles”). I have a first interview with another company next week, so I will definitely do that if the situation repeats.

  125. Savannnah*

    Three whole departments just got laid off at my hospital today, about 140 people -I just went to get a coffee at our cafe and people are crying in the lobby while patients are trying to check in. My boss told my team we are safe but there are 12 other departments ‘up for review and restructuring ‘ We just completed a $2.5 million rebranding campaign. Its going to be a rough May.

  126. paul*

    Thinking about making a career shift but am at a loss.

    I’ve got a fair bit of professional experience now, but I don’t have a degree and I’m worried about it impacting my job search. If I wanted to stay in my field, it wouldn’t be a problem…but I kind of want out. I’m too banged up for serious physical labor these days (no oil field work, construction, etc) and I don’t think I can pass a DOT physical. So I’m at a loss of where to shift too, or how to do it. Or if I can do it; I’m frankly fairly pessimistic about my chances of managing to get a degree, but maybe professional certifications?

    1. fposte*

      So you want out but you don’t know what you want in to? What kind of stuff do you do where you are, and what kind of money are you looking to move to? Maybe we can crowdsource you a new career.

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      It depends on what industry you are looking to break into. Any idea what direction you want to go?

      1. paul*

        Honestly, I don’t. It’s more being really utterly burned out in social services. I’m not sure how much the skillsets are transferable, or what they’d be transferable to.

        1. fposte*

          Oh, burnout sucks, and that’s certainly a field ripe for it. So what do you actually do–not who do you serve or where do you work, but are you directing a program, serving people face to face, negotiating software, dealing with health care systems, what?

          1. paul*

            oh, god save me from health care *shudder*

            At this point it feels like I attend community meetings and run reports full time. Reports on client services, client request, what resources we use with them, etc. Go to meetings with those agencies to smooth over kerfuffles, make sure we have good information (if they’re not doing, say, dental cleaning anymore I dont’ want us taking people there for it you know?) review files, train new hires in procedures, occasionally provide feedback if someones garbling a process, etc.

            I dont’ do a ton of direct client work anymore (and frankly don’t want to, I’ve got too much empathy burnout to be good at it). I’ll fill in for basic checks if someone’s sick or something but that’s it.

            1. Master Bean Counter*

              Sounds like you’d be a fit for a grant manager for a government entity. Some of the same crap, better benefits and better hours. Possibly an HR generalist position.
              Is there one aspect of this job that you actually still like?

              1. paul*

                hmm…I like playing with data and running reports (when the software doesn’t glitch out).

                Pretty, pretty data.

                1. fposte*

                  Yeah, this sounds very grant/project related to me. Does data include financials?

                2. Master Bean Counter*

                  So remove the people and leave the data? Sounds like a business analyst to me. I’d look into pursuing a couple of SQL certifications and go from there.

                3. paul*

                  you know my wife is actually working on getting her MSCA SQL alongside a CS degree? I may wait for her then have her help me with some of the studying/prep work and try something like that.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      Hmmm. I’ll pull something completely out of left field. What about a sales position in commercial or industrial construction products or materials? You’ve got construction experience and I’m not sure what you did in social services, but presumably, there were some people skills involved. A smaller company in that niche would be less concerned about a degree.

      1. paul*

        oh, I don’t have personal experience in construction–I’ve got some family that does/did that sort of work, and its’ frequently brought up as a possibility is all. Hell, a lot of our clients get placed with entry level construction work.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          Oh, gotcha. Well, it could still be an option. : ) Just doesn’t have quite the same story when you’re applying.

  127. Skweeks50*

    Two gripes about my job this week that I just have to post somewhere:
    1. Around 30-40 employees share a fridge in my department which has become super stuffed because no one cleans it out and multiple people bring in a weeks worth of groceries to keep in there. One of my co-workers saw that I put my lunchbag in it and told me that if I have an insulated bag I should keep it at my desk with a cold pack in it so there is room for other employees food. I told her that if a policy is mandated and if the department is willing to provide cold packs because I don’t have one I would be happy to (they don’t even buy us basic office supplies, I buy all my own staples, pens, etc). Until they provide that for me I will keep my lunch in the fridge. She was very upset that I would say such a thing instead of providing room for her 5 pounds of kale salad, bag of apples and gallon of OJ.
    2. I’m oversharing for my first post, but…
    My husband was just diagnosed with cancer and will need surgery within the next few weeks. I let my boss know that I will need some time off to care for him after the procedure and she doesn’t want to give it to me because it is the busy time of year for us. I’m applying for FMLA for it but she suggested working from home instead. I want to make sure I can be there for him completely, not have to block out work time (I’m hourly so it would have to reported on my timesheet).
    Ok, rant over, now back to work.

    1. fposte*

      Oooh, I don’t like that FMLA pushback at all. Make sure you don’t succumb to remote requests for work while you’re on it. (“We wouldn’t want to run afoul of the law, I’m sure.”) And good wishes to your husband, you, and your lunch.

      1. neverjaunty*

        Agree. Boss is being an ass. Your husband has cancer and needs surgery and she’s all “waaaa can’t you work from home?” HOW ABOUT NO, YOU JACKHOLE.

    2. Temperance*

      Oh, Skweeks, I’m so sorry to hear about your husband.

      To be totally candid with you, working at home in the immediate aftermath of his surgery is a terrible idea .. especially considering the fact that you have an obviously unreasonable boss. I hope things go very well for your husband, and for you. There are many others in the comments here who have been in similar situations; if you need regular life advice, I highly recommend stopping by for the general open thread tomorrow.

      I think you work with a lot of dbags. I just can’t imagine the nerve of someone who does her entire grocery run at work asking you not to put your lunch in there.

    3. Anxa*

      1. I guess this is timely! Maybe this a great of example of the vigilante patrolling an issue they themselves should be patrolled over. I would be pretty annoyed. Many lunch bags really aren’t meant to substitute as a cooler, never mind a fridge. I highly, highly doubt anything would happen by using ice packs instead of a fridge, but still. Also, she’s hogging up space for a bag of apples and then give you grief? Apples!

      The petty person in me would be tempted to stop bringing a lunch bag with my prepped lunch and start bringing twice the groceries, getting there early on Monday, and crowd her out. A bag of apples?!

      2. I’ve never been a FMLA covered employee, so I don’t really understand how that works. But I have had cooler bosses that would have let me have my job back after take a leave. This seems shortsighted, like they are setting themselves up to have to scramble later down the line. Seems like it makes a lot more sense for everyone to just approve it now! Ugh, that sounds so frustrating. Aside from the benefits of FMLA, approving it now would compound that benefit so you have one thing you can count on as being taken care of and have one less thing to stress over. I can’t imagine how much it will suck to have to work from home in that situation.

    4. Chaordic One*

      Your coworker is a jerk. Ignore her.

      I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. I don’t know what to say about the FMLA. You need and should have it for as long as it takes for your husband to recover, especially immediately after the surgery.

      That said, don’t completely write off the possibility of working from home. Obviously, you won’t be able to do it right away, but it is possible that as your husband recovers it might be something you can reconsider in the month or two following the surgery. Just keep it in the back of your head for later.

    5. ..Kat..*

      Working from home, but cutting your hours (say in half) could work for you, depending on your husband’s needs. But, you would have to trust your boss not to be pushing for more, more, more. Can his doctor or nurse give you an idea of what your husband would need and how much time it would take? (A nurse would probably have a more realistic estimate, given that nurses do the hands on care. I have had doctors wonder what the heck I do all day and why aren’t tasks X, Y, and Z done already? Not denigrating doctors; what they do is different than what nurses do. Where I work, we have residents (new doctors) shadow a nurse for a couple of days. They generally express amazement at how busy we are and develop a new appreciation for nurses that helps them work more collaboratively with nurses in the future. Which results in better patient care. Wow, long verbal aside here!). Plus factor in time for taking care of yourself emotionally.

      1. ..Kat..*

        I am suggesting this because it can make your PTO last longer and it can help alleviate money pressures.

  128. Aeryn*

    Six months ago I got my “dream job” after trying to land this kind of position for years, and fortunately I couldn’t be happier at my new employer. I recently received an email from a recruiter at a competitor – this company is a big deal and everyone reading this would have heard of them. I just took a new job (and am so happy here!) so I was going to write back say thanks but no thanks at the moment, but then they emailed me at my work email (twice!!). It wasn’t a mistake because they mentioned it was fine to respond via personal email. I was so taken aback by this that I haven’t responded to any of the emails via any address, and I’ve since received a Linkin message as well. I feel like I should respond, because it’s a famous company and maybe one day I’ll consider working there if I lose my current job (but I don’t right now). My question is, how should I respond to the recruiter? How normal is it for a recruiter to contact you via your current company email?

    1. Consultant*

      I got contacted on my company email when recruiters didn’t have my private one. If they have your private email it’s strange they contact you on your work one.

    2. justsomeone*

      It’s completely acceptable to respond to the recruiter with “Hey thanks for reaching out! I’m not looking to make a move right now, but I appreciate you thinking of me.”

      You could also add, if you felt like it “for positions in the future, please contact me at Personal@email.com“

    3. JulieBulie*

      The first time I replied to a recruited who had reverse-engineered my work email address based on my name and my employer (in other words, didn’t just use LinkedIn to email me), I was really mad, said that it was tacky and how dare they contact me at my place of employment. That really didn’t get me anywhere, so now I just ignore them and block their address in Outlook.

      Having said that, it’s only happened to me a couple of times. Most recruiters will use the email system of linkedin, monster or wherever they found you if they don’t already have your personal email from some other source. I have an extremely low opinion of those who take a guess at my work email since I clearly did not signal that I wanted to hear from them that way. I would have serious qualms about their integrity.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      I would feel quite overwhelmed and invaded by being contacted that many times, bigshot company or not.

  129. TheSockMonkey*

    This is a question related to yesterday’s question about wanting a writing job without a portfolio or experience. Full disclosure: I don’t usually read the open thread, so if this has been asked before, I apologize.

    For the last 9 years, I’ve been an editor on government contracts. (And writer, but mostly starting with required standard language and only occasionally starting from scratch.) I would like to transition into something like technical writing, proposal writing, grant writing, etc.

    I’d be interested in hearing tips about how to do that–like how to learn to write proposals, grants, software-related manuals, etc. Obviously I can research classes but I’m wondering if any of you can recommend a low-cost resource that would enable me to develop those skills. (Also, I’d appreciate any comments on pluses or minuses associated with moving towards doing the types of work I mentioned above.)

    Thanks

    1. ..Kat..*

      Good technical writers are worth their weight in gold. I am thinking specifically about the ones I worked with when I was a computer programmer. If they do a good job, the customers understand how to use your software. If they are not good, the customers either (a) don’t understand how to use your software and are frustrated, or (b) think your program does something different than what it does, and they are angry about the discrepancy. When I left computer programming for a different career, I had a lot of really good, really expensive books related to the profession. I gave all of them to this terrific technical writer I worked with, and publicly told him I wanted him to have them as a thank you for all the good work he did (always try to praise in public). A lot of jaws dropped, because many programmers don’t understand how important good technical writers are, but he deserved it. Last I heard, the job market is good, but double check me on this.

      Somewhat related, good scientific writers are also very valuable. Not sure what the job market is like, though.

      Not sure how to qualify for such jobs though. Writing is not my forte.

    2. AJennifer*

      My company is currently looking for a proposal writer/coordinator type position. What we are looking for is someone who can take an RFP, and understand the project and submission requirements, and pull together the whole thing from assigning sections to staff, developing a template that includes all the ‘standard stuff’ to formatting it to seemingly random requirements for line spacing and headers and footers. I think one of the most important skills the person in this role will have is being able to get things done in advance by making people take it seriously that she needs their sections by X date to get the proposal out on time.. It’d be really nice if not EVERY proposal was a last minute scramble of people having to work late and stress themselves out to get to FedEx by the time the truck leaves because the proposal has to be delivered the next morning.

  130. 1.0*

    Trans and non-binary friends: how have you handled transitioning at work? For people who are non-binary, how important is it to you to be gendered correctly at work?

    For context, I am afab and things are a little unclear on the gender front. I’ve started wearing a binder in my personal life and going by neutral pronouns (they/them).

    My job skews towards the young and liberal end, and pretty gay friendly — I work with a couple of gay people and am myself a lesbian — but gender is a whole new horizon. I’m a little scared to wear a binder to work and I can’t imagine asking people to use they/them pronouns is going to actually take (and frankly “she” is less stress than “get excited to start giving off the cuff Trans And NB 101 lectures”, so).

    …At least I’m pretty sure that if/when I start binding at work, it’s not THAT likely anybody’s going to ask me where my breasts went, so that’s something, at least.

    1. Manders*

      I am… maybe agender? Also a little unclear on the gender front over here. I have a lot of genderqueer friends who hold down professional jobs and kick butt at them; it helps that I live in an ultra-liberal city.

      For the binding, it’s very unlikely that anyone’s going to comment on or even notice that you’re wearing a binder. Most afab people has already had the experience of using a range of bras and outfits that make the chest region look more or less prominent. Also, I don’t know this from personal experience, but I have been told by trans friends that’s it’s a good idea to 1) buy the more expensive binders and 2) develop an exercise routine to keep up your core strength if you’re planning on wearing a binder all day long.

      In my experience, a new short haircut also won’t be a big deal or a signal that your gender presentation is changing. Switching to the “menswear for women”-type tailored styles also won’t necessarily be a signal to people that your gender presentation is changing either; fashion for afab people can get pretty androgynous.

      If you’re comfortable talking to your coworkers about changing pronouns, go right ahead. If you’re not, people will be polite and assume that they need to keep using the pronoun they had been using for you, even if you feel like it doesn’t match your current presentation. So don’t get worried about how you’re presenting to others if people who know you as “she” don’t switch to “they” without prompting; they’re taking their cues from you.

      1. 1.0*

        Heh, I’m already on the butchier end of things — I have a short alternative lifestyles haircut already and have a not insubstantial amount of menswear in my wardrobe (and yet, somehow several coworkers still expressed being surprised when I mentioned dating a woman! Honestly, I get you guys don’t want to stereotype, but c’mon) — it’s just scary, venturing out into uncharted gender territory when I was already the office lesbian, you know?

        Thanks!

        1. Manders*

          I feel you on not being able to guess what will surprise your coworkers! I’m married to a man, and my coworkers were SHOCKED that I did not change my last name to his. But chopping off six inches of hair overnight went unnoticed. Being the first person in the office to break the gender “rules” is weird.

          People who are already polite are going to keep being polite, and they’ll take their cues from you. People who are jerks are gonna be jerks, although if the prevailing office culture is one of politeness, they’ll also probably be polite to fit in. I would not give off the cuff lectures to people who don’t express interest and ask you to explain, but that falls in the larger etiquette category of “don’t monolog at someone unless they ask you to do that.”

    2. ..Kat..*

      I did not understand some of your terms, but just wanted to give some advice. Recommend you tell at least a few empathetic coworkers. When they start addressing you in line with your innate gender or non-gender (I hope I am wording this correctly. If I am not, please accept that I mean well.), they will be modeling the behavior you want from others.

      When people get it wrong, just correct them politely and matter of factly. “Actually, it’s xzxry.” Please be patient with those you have to repeatedly correct. While some people are being jerks, many of us just need lots of reminders and repetition. Plus, if you assume the best, it can be less stressful for you.

      Good luck!

  131. Gail Davidson-Durst*

    Happy Friday! I have a question about putting a certification on my resume. I’m submitting final paperwork for the cert this week, and I did the hard part – passing the test – last year. I just had to wait for my years of experience to hit the mark before getting the actual certification.

    If I’m applying for a job this week, should I put the cert on my resume without comment, or put “pending” or “exam passed” or some such?

    My husband says to just list it, but the last thing I want to do is come across as dishonest in any way!

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I would put it under Education section with a note that says something like, “Exam passed on (DATE). Expected Completion (DATE).” Assuming that the exam is a big deal, like a CPA sorta thing.

    2. CAA*

      Is the cert definitely awarded as soon as they get the paperwork? If it is, and you’re applying for the job and the cert at the same time, then I’m with your husband, just list it as if you already have it.

      However, if there’s some kind of bureaucratic review or it takes 3 months to get added to the directory so you can be verified to have the cert, then list it as “earned May, 2017; verification pending”, or something similar.

    3. Gail Davidson-Durst*

      Thanks – I combined these ideas to come to something I’m comfortable with!

  132. pseudo project manager*

    Can any project managers or people who hire project managers offer some advice?

    I have a bachelor’s of fine arts, but I’ve been working in healthcare for 10+ years. I want to pursue a career in project management. I feel like it’s my calling. I would love to go back to school, however, I have a TON of student loan debt already, at 30 years old I can’t find many scholarships I’d be eligible for, and I can’t go to school full-time (due to my finances and health) which is also a requirement for some scholarships.

    I’m planning on taking the PMP exam as soon as I meet the requirements. I took a project management class at a state school which fulfills the education requirements, and I’m working towards the experience requirements while in my current admin assistant position (my leadership/management are really supportive of my goals so they give me a large amount of responsibility and autonomy). I also co-chair a sub-committee where I manage 1-2 projects at a time.

    How important is it for a project manager candidate to have relevant degree in the field to which they’re applying to work in? Do I need a degree (clinical/admin/business) in healthcare in addition to PMP certification, in order to realistically be hired in a project manager position? I plan to stay in the healthcare field long term. I’m wondering if it’s different at hospitals vs. other NPOs vs. for-profit pharma/ medical supply/device companies or healthcare start-ups.

    Could I just take courses on Coursera and list them on my CV/linkedin? (My employer won’t pay for any non-credit courses so I really need to make sure it’s worthwhile before I shell out.) Do hiring managers take that seriously? Or, what about a certificate (at a reputable institution) instead of a degree?

    It’s not that I don’t want to go back to school for something in my field, I do – so badly! But I can’t until I make more money, and yet I can’t make more money until I go back to school.

    1. imakethings*

      I know a lot of project managers; none have relevant degrees. They got there in a myriad of ways, including working their way up or being hired by a company looking for recent grads with diverse backgrounds. I think it really depends on the situation, and I can’t speak with personal experience, but it sounds like you’re taking some good steps. Good luck!

    2. Anon Anon*

      Depends on the type of project management. But, I was a project manager in healthcare for 8 years. I have a social science degree. I don’t think your degree is really that relevant in many industries. Experience was a bigger help.

    3. Thlayli*

      I’m an engineer and I’m a PM in an engineering company. I have no idea about healthcare but in engineering all the good PMs I’ve ever known were engineers first and then became PMs.

  133. ArtK*

    Urgh. I’ve got applications in for two positions at a company that I’d really like to work for. One of my school friends has connected me with a couple of people in that area and I have gotten the following:

    1) They may only keep those postings open to have a backlog of resumes, not because they actually have headcount.
    2) One of my contacts started right in by pigeonholing me. “Oh, we don’t need application developers, we need embedded systems developers.” Argh. Although my recent experience is in application development, I’ve done *tons* of different things in software, including embedded systems. It’s in my resume. Don’t go by the most recent job!

  134. No Llamas Allowed*

    Academics:
    Two of my coworkers are being ridiculous and while it doesn’t really concern me both of them have told me about it. I am getting the urge to kick both of them in the shins, in lieu of that what do you suggest?
    (I think hiding from them would probably be best)
    They are tenured professors. I am their non-student, full time professional support person in a technical capacity. Profs in our department take turns being chair, so one is technically in charge but otherwise they are peers. They are arguing at cross-purposes about a dumb administrative thing and they obviously need to find a way to communicate professionally for the remainder of the time one is department chair. Now I like Dr. Chair and Dr. Llama equally so it is doubly annoying. Dr. Llama thinks Dr. Chair and Dr. Chair’s secretary are “yelling” at them. Unfortunately I was sitting in the room while one of these alleged yelling incidents occurred and there was certainly harsh tone but no yelling. There was alleged yelling between the profs in the lobby in front of students the other day! Normally things are fine in our department and this whole thing is dumb. Since AAM won’t be swooping in to referee I think hiding is best. Also Dr. Llama doesn’t teach in the summer and Dr. Chair works the opposite schedule to mine, so hiding is very doable.

    1. fposte*

      Hiding is fine. If you can’t, buffer: “I’m sure it’ll work out; we always manage to get it done.”

      1. No Llamas Allowed*

        It’s even dumber than that. They are arguing about signing a paper regarding what textbook will be used.

        1. fposte*

          Still works. Vague and platitudinous is all you’re looking for; it doesn’t have to be really apropos. You’re just a quick squirt of 3 in 1 :-).

    2. Rincat*

      When people have done this to me in the past, I sometimes go “Huh, did you talk to Dr. Chair/Dr. Llama about it?” And then the venter just stares me at like, why would I talk to that person and actually resolve the issue?… This usually shuts them up, because they don’t want to talk to the other person at all and have realized that I’m not going to solve their little spat.

      Now if Dr. Chair or Dr. Llama has talked to the other person, and it hasn’t been resolved, I do the “Welp sorry don’t know what to tell you.” Basically I become boring and useless. Gray Rock is the method, I believe. Be a gray rock!

      1. No Llamas Allowed*

        Dr. Llama is now refusing to speak to Dr. Chair in person. *much eye rolling on my part* Now at this time of year I know they are all cranky because they are doing final grades. I wish the Dean would chew them both out. The worst part is that these are people I like, respect & generally look up to. Also: I took a vacation day today.

        1. Rincat*

          Having worked IT support at a university…I know how you all feel. :) Yay for vacation day!

  135. Justgotcanned*

    I just found out that today is my last day with my employer of 10+ years. My position has been “eliminated”. I don’t yet know what my severance will be since that will be overnighted. Has anyone here had luck with negotiating severance?

    1. tiny temping teapot*

      I did, but I had more warning so I was able to negotiate. I asked high and didn’t get it but did get more than they first offered.

      BTW, I was told because I was over 40, I had additional time to sign off on severance issues. I don’t know if you’re in that age range or if that regulation was only for my state, but maybe something to look into?

      I’m sorry about losing your position. :(

    3. Thlayli*

      As far as I can tell you need some ammunition with which to negotiate. Saying “I will do x if I get this amount but i will do y if I get a lower amount” is a negotiation. Saying “please give me more money even though nothing I do has any effect on you” isn’t a negotiation – it’s just asking. You absolutely can and should ask, but unless you have some reason to incentivise them to give you more then I wouldn’t hold out much hope.

  136. MadStuart*

    So, I need to get a second part-time job. Which means I’ll need to go on interviews some time in the near future.

    I have chronic hives of an unknown origin that aren’t always managed by medication, and I am a woman with a short buzzcut. The latter may not be a problem; I live in a relatively liberal area, and it’s not as uncommon a haircut for women in this area as it might be in others, and it might grow out enough to not be an issue before I manage to get an interview anyway… but normally I’d compensate for the haircut by putting makeup and such on, and I just can’t with the hives.

    There’s a 50-50 chance each day that I will be lumpen and red in spots that are normally visible around clothing. One out of every 10 days some portion of my face randomly decides to swell in a comically disfiguring fashion. Antihistamines will sometimes take care of it, but most of the time it takes a few hours, and they don’t always get rid of all the swelling and redness. And it is noticeable.

    If I have to interview like this, do I just start with the phrase “Sorry about my appearance; I have chronic hives and they aren’t always manageable with medication,” or do I only mention it if they ask about it?

    And any advice about interviewing as a woman with a non-standard haircut?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Rock your haircut! As long as you are polished and dressed professionally, you should be fine there.

      Regarding your hives… I am so sorry, and I can relate! If you interview on a day when you’re swollen and lumpy, just laugh it off and say the phrase you posted. It’s perfect wording.

    2. JulieBulie*

      Don’t mention it right away. At some point you will need to scratch (or pretend to need to scratch), just a polite little scritch, and at that time you can say “ha ha, hives.” If you volunteer much more than that, it will be needlessly awkward because you will be disclosing a medical condition which, though plainly visible, is not relevant to the job.

      If you’re having a hivey day, it will probably be obvious why you aren’t wearing makeup. Even if it’s not a hivey day, it’s really not a huge deal for a woman not to wear makeup any more. I haven’t worn it in years. Unless it’s some kind of makeup-wearing job, only silly people will care whether you wear it or not.

    3. Chaordic One*

      Echoing the other posters’ comments. I wouldn’t mention your appearance, unless it is one of your bad days. Dress professionally.

      If you can tolerate it you might wear lipstick (but not in an overly bright color) or lip gloss, but it isn’t necessary. You might also consider wearing earrings (or ear clips if you don’t have pierced ears).

    4. ..Kat..*

      Actually, I think starting your interview with your explanation is good. Takes the focus off of the hives. I would suggest a segue of some sort. “They don’t affect my ability to do my job. I am so excited to be interviewing for this wonderful opportunity. What questions do you have for me?” I believe in pointing out the elephant in the room so that we can move on.

      And seriously, if I see hives on you, I would be worried about you progressing to a severe medical reaction – think throat swelling closed, 911, etc. I would prefer to not be worried about such things so that I can focus on you as a job candidate, not as a potential dead person.

  137. Uh, non.*

    Moral dilemma here, don’t want to go into specifics. There’s an important day (for my personal career growth that I’m doing outside of work) coming up for me next month and I requested PTO, which was denied without explanation. Can I call out sick the day-of? Or will that lead to a confrontation? I have PTO that will be expiring that month anyway.

    1. Nevertheless*

      It will look suspicious and send up a red flag. Whether or not it will lead to confrontation is hard to say – only you know the personality of the supervisor. Whether its the right thing to do is ultimately up to you. Is having this day off worth it for the potential consequences and fall out?

      1. Uh, non.*

        I didn’t explain myself when I requested the day; I only asked to take the day off. It’s actually for an event for a prestigious career group that I’m part of. My participation was extremely low this year and I fear that if I don’t go to this event I might be out of the group. I don’t know if it’s worth trying again with the boss or leaving it as-is. This place is very clique-y and I’m not part of the cool kids’ crowd.

        1. Nevertheless*

          I should qualify that it will look suspicious and send up a flag for the kind of supervisor that looks for that sort of thing. Someone who doesn’t or has so many reports they can’t keep track, likely won’t notice or care. Do you know why it was denied? Is it a critical day for your job?

          1. Uh, non.*

            That whole month is important, but it involves work that has been going on since last month. It’s one day that is part of an ongoing project. I’ve been helping out as much as I can. It is absolutely doable that we can come in and work on weekends/evenings if we cannot be there for a day — in other words, there are no hard deadlines.

            1. Nevertheless*

              Could you offer to come in on a weekend or work extra hours the rest of the week then, to make up for it? If I was in your shoes, that’s what I would do.

              1. Not So NewReader*

                Don’t call out sick on that day, unless you are prepared to deal with being fired.
                I would go back to the boss again, explain your PTO is expiring that month anyway,so you would have to use it up. Then explain that this is a super important event. You are only asking for one day and you are willing to stand on your head to make it up.

                If this does not work, see if anyone else has that day off and ask if they would be willing to trade.

    2. ..Kat..*

      Do you need the whole day off? Or can you work around what you want to do? And shame on your employer! You should be getting enough time off that you don’t have expiring PTO! Good luck.

  138. Nevertheless*

    An admin position has come up that I’m interested in. It’s not in my specialty area – where I have an MA and a decade of experience. I have no admin experience, but I have many of the skills they’re asking for and some unique experience I think would appeal to them. Any tips on applying from admins or others? Am I silly for even applying because I don’t have admin experience? Is this just a case where I need to write a killer cover letter?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I have some experience in this area. I applied for a receptionist position when I had a master’s in a totally unrelated field. My future boss expressed concerns about whether I really wanted the position, since she said I was “overqualified.” I managed to convince her it was right for what I wanted in my career at the time (and for the next few years), so I got the job. Not all potential employers may be convinced of that ever, no matter how sincere you are.

  139. anon24*

    I read this blog all the time and never ever comment, but you guys are all awesome and I’d love your opinions on a situation my husband is in!

    He works in an industry where he likes the work but it has horrible office politics that he can’t stand. Last summer he decided to attempt to join the Coast Guard because it’s been a lifelong dream of his and he can use his schooling there. There was a lot of back and forth and maybes and then the recruiter just stopped answering his phone calls. We both sort of gave up on that and moved on. A former boss has been bugging him to come work for her, so he decided to go interview. And then the Coast Guard called. Turns out his recruiter had been temporarily reassigned. They are looking for more information and then he should know, but it could be anywhere from today to 6 months from now when he finds out (They seemed hopeful it would be on the sooner side, but we’ve heard that before). He decided to go to his interview anyway, to appease his contact and get her to stop calling him. He had talked to other people who had applied there and heard what they got offered and figured she’d never give him an offer he would accept. Turns out, she offered him a huge pay raise, better hours, better benefits, and the opportunity to earn a promotion in the first year. He absolutely hates the company that he works for currently, but he doesn’t know what to do. If he takes the job and gets into the Coast Guard, he’d be leaving fairly quickly and screwing her over (she is really going out on a limb for him with some of her offers). But he doesn’t want to turn her down and then end up stuck at his low paying awful job if the Coast Guard says no. He has a week to give her an answer. I think he should wait the week, and if he hasn’t heard back from the Coast Guard he should explain the whole situation and she what she says. (No one but me knows he has applied as he would like to keep it a secret for now to avoid a lot of questions) Any advice?

    1. fposte*

      Given that it sounds like he has a good relationship with the old boss, I’m with you on transparency with her. Do you have any sense of how likely a Coast Guard candidate he is?

      1. anon24*

        He’s being held up medically with an old issue he had. They keep saying it’s fine if he can prove he has not had any issues and is no longer on medication but every time he sends them documentation from the dr they say it’s not enough and they want it documented differently. The recruiter thinks they finally should have what they are looking for and are waiting for the approval or rejection. After that he just needs to pass the ASVSAB and will be good to go to the next basic training class (they are held every 2 months). The recruiter seems to think he will be accepted. It’s been a very emotional roller coaster. We just want to know!

        1. fposte*

          Oh, yikes. Does what the recruiter say jibe with external information you can find about how the Coast Guard deals with that medical problem?

          1. anon24*

            Yes everything we can find seems to match what he is saying. Nonmedically speaking the Coast Guard is a lot pickier than other military branches but my husband has a college degree and 2 years work experience so the recruiter was really enthusiastic about having him join. We are barely making it paycheck to paycheck and this job would change all that so he doesn’t want to turn it down but he really respects his old boss and doesn’t want to stab her in the back if the Coast Guard accepts him.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I think I’d vote for former boss.

      The former boss has built a great incentive to work there. She can make decisions with sureness.

      The Coast Guard not so much. They seem to be yanking him around. I am not sure that bodes well for once he gets in there. Are they just going to keep questioning him about the medical condition and holding that over his head all the time?

    3. ..Kat..*

      Does he trust the Coast Guard recruiter to give him an honest answer to how likely he is to be accepted? And a lot of this depends on what he wants to do in the Coast Guard. Rescue Swimmer? This is like qualifying to be a Navy Seal. And, even if he gets accepted, he still needs to make it through their version of basic training. If he chooses this, he needs to understand that he might not get accepted, or if accepted, he might wash out.

      Personally, I think he should go with former boss. Good job, good pay, good lots of stuff. But, if he chooses this option, he needs to commit to it.

      I see the options as:
      A) Go for Coast Guard
      1) Don’t get accepted. Stuck in crappy job.
      2) Get accepted
      a) Make it through training! Yippee! Dream job.
      b). Don’t make it through training. No Coast Guard. No job.
      B) Go with former boss. Good job with good pay and benefits. But, gave up on dream.
      C) Stay with crappy job.

      This is hard. Because what your husband truly wants is so hard and so special that most people can’t achieve this dream. But, many of us never get our dreams. And we deal. If I had the height and a lot more talent, I would be a ballerina/firefighter.

      Also to consider, how is your job, your pay, your benefits? His decisions affect the two of you and your combined future as well. If he goes for Coast Guard, can you support the two of you if things don’t work out? If things do work out for him, your career definitely becomes secondary. Can you move with him as he gets reassigned to new stations? Will you be able to get job after job? Will you be happy giving up a potentially significant career to follow him wherever he goes?

      Good luck. You two have some tough decisions to make.

  140. ThatGirl*

    Ahhh! I’ve been out of work (laid off) for two months and I just got a call for a third/final interview on Monday! It’d be a good job and a good career move (as far as I can tell)! I just need the recruiter to call me back to schedule the time!

    I only have one blazer/dressy jacket, should I wear that again with different top/accessories, or should I go for a different business-y outfit? The office seemed pretty casual.

    1. Rincat*

      Eh, depends on who the interview is with. If it’s a higher up person, I’d do the blazer and change up the top and accessories. If it’s more like “meet the team” and you’ll be meeting peers, I’d go for a different outfit. Good luck!

      1. ThatGirl*

        I believe it is the department VP and … someone else. I’m waiting to confirm details. So sounds like a blazer is the right way to go. Thanks :)

    2. Temperance*

      I think it’s fine to wear the same one. TBH, I have two suits: one gray, one navy, and no one has ever said anything about me being an outfit repeater.

    3. Venus Supreme*

      I don’t think they’d notice! I’d say pair it with a different top/accessories/shoes and you’re good to go.

    4. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      I don’t tend to think outfit repeat rules apply to suits – if you change up the shirt and accessories, it IS a new outfit.

      1. ThatGirl*

        It’s not a suit, per se, just dress pants and a blazer — but thank you, I’ll just re-accessorize with a different shirt.

    5. H.C.*

      If the blazer is fairly basic (solid dark color or simple patterns like pinstripes), it’s fine to re-wear with different clothing items/accessories. But if it’s a fairly flashy one (bright colors, louder patterns, etc.), I’d avoid wearing it again since they are more memorable and would give off the impression that you only have one jacket (esp if there’s a chance of you meeting interviewers from previous interviews).

  141. CB*

    Have an interview next week for a seasonal promotion at my part-time job–the job I’ve kept in order to have an inside track on the higher level types of job I’d much rather have. And then read on our intranet that taking a seasonal job would preclude accepting another job in the company until the season is completed (Christmas). And honestly, I really want to leave this location before then anyway, so really, that shouldn’t be a problem, but I feel a bit guilty even interviewing knowing I might leave before the end of the season. (Not so guilty I won’t interview though–I know life happens and people leave!)

  142. Nonny for this today*

    Two years ago I applied and was preliminary hired to a gov agency. From start to finish the process was a year and a half of interviews and tests and ultimately I was cut towards the end of the selection process. I took a polygraph and it said I was being deceitful and that was end of my 18 month journey. I am never allowed to apply again.

    Yesterday there was a report on our local news that this agency was having a recruiting event for women and minorities. This agency is 80-something percent white male and they are looking to diversify.

    I couldn’t help but get a little upset that I got cut over some bullshit test and here they are looking for candidates who are intellengent, well rounded, hard working, in shape etc (me!) who happen to be women (also me) and a minority (hey…me). I was a kick-ass candidate that happened to also be extremely underrepresented in this agency and now they’re looking for people exactly like me? Getouttahere.

    My interviews and tests had been stellar and I was getting such positive feedback, but the second I walked into that polygraph room I knew it was over.

    I hope they have a successful recruiting event and my twin sisters gets recruited ;)

    1. Umvue*

      Oh, that is so frustrating, especially because the polygraph really is BS. The National Academy of Sciences panel on the subject had this to say: “Basic research in social psychophysiology suggests, for example, that the accuracy of polygraph tests may be affected when examiners or examinees are members of socially stigmatized groups…” (Full report)

      I hope you’ve found other directions to take your career!

      1. Nonny for this today*

        It did! The day after I got the rejection letter I got a job offer (internal transfer) and changed careers from general public health to IT. It’s been great!

        1. ..Kat..*

          I’m glad you like your new job and so sorry about the other.

          Polygraph is as much an art as a science. That said, there is good reason for these not being allowed as evidence in court. And so much depends on the skills of the person administering the poly.

          I know someone who failed because no one believed he could be that honest and have such strong morals that he would never cheat! But that is truly who he was. Their loss, but hard for him too.

          Please enjoy your new job. And keep in mind that government jobs can be difficult to deal with.

  143. Cute Li'l UFO*

    For anyone who’s read the open thread over the last couple weeks, unfortunately I didn’t get the job. I have had three interviews to the end stage and after years of getting down on myself (found out it takes a while to undo what happens in an abusive relationship) for being the “perpetual B+ student who always stops short of an A” as he would put it, I realize that it’s a good sign. Every interview I’ve had has gotten closer and closer. I have a lot of support with family and friends. It’s rough, but they only serve to increase my drive.

    That and the last two places handled disseminating the rejection notice SO MUCH BETTER than two renowned tech companies handled layoffs last year. There’s really something to be said for giving one of your final candidates a call and offering feedback or sending them a very nice personal email.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      That is discouraging but I’m glad you’re using it as motivation. And ug, that B+ comment is some nasty, cutting stuff. I’m so glad you’ve got lots of support, and good luck with the next opportunity!

  144. Nervous Accountant*

    Kind of a small issue in the bigger picture but wonder if I can get any answers…

    I have a coworker who, if she has a question, she will say “I have a question” and then go right in to her Q w/o making sure she has my full attention. So, I’ll be in the middle of something). Also, she has a very low speaking voice, mostly whispering, and I”m a little hard of hearing so she always has to repeat herself at least 2-3x and I have to lean in which I dislike doing.

    If it was anyone else, I could tell them to knock it off, with her……idk.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Some people might view this as rude, but I think done in the right spirit, it can be gentle but effective— have you tried just holding up your finger and saying “Hold on a sec,” while you finish doing whatever you’re doing?

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      By the way, my pet peeve is the exact opposite. I love it when people just go right ahead and ask me whatever, but it really annoys me when people say “What’s your bandwidth like right now?” or “Are you super busy?” I can’t really answer that question except with “What do you need?” because if it’s urgent, I’m not too busy for it, and if it’s not urgent, I can probably make time for it eventually.

    3. Blue Anne*

      Both of the colleagues in the cubes on either side of me are fairly quiet talkers with strong accents. They’ll say my name and start asking a question in their normal voices, with both of us in front of our computers (So cube wall between us) and I don’t even realize they’re talking to me until they’re halfway through it.

      I’ve started alternating between two things:
      -Pretending that I *never* realized they were talking to me. They’ll finish their question, wait a couple beats, and they say “Anne! Did you hear me?” “Oh, I’m sorry Persephone, I didn’t realize you were talking to me.”
      -Cutting in to say “Wakeen, I can’t understand you when you talk to me from over there” in the kind of loud, clear voice you should really use if you want to be intelligible to the person on the other side of the cube.

      It’s improving. I think doing both of those things is more helpful than doing either on their own I tell them I can’t understand them, and they also see that I can’t understand them. Can you do something similar? If she doesn’t have your full attention, don’t give her any attention until she makes herself known in a way that works? Tell her that you need her to speak more loudly?

    4. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      There’s nothing rude about asking people to speak up (assuming it’s not some physical limitation) or to wait until you’re done. And if it is rude, then call me rude!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yep. I never thought that wanting to actually hear what a person is saying could be a rude thing.

        NA, I’d nip this one for once and for all. I do have a slight-slight hearing loss so I would tell her that. “Whisperer, I have a slight hearing loss. I want to hear what you say and talk to you. In order for this to happen you must speak up. When you approach me, take a look to see if I see you. If I do not see you, I am more likely not to know you are there. Please know that I want to hear what you have to say and converse with you.”

        She does taxes? What does she do if a client is hard of hearing? Am shaking my head.
        After this longer explanation that I did above, any further problems I would just shorten it to, “I can’t hear you, please speak up.” And I would say that each and every time. Honestly, I truly don’t want to blow by what people are saying, I want to make sure I speak to everyone who speaks to me. So I have no problem telling people to speak up.

  145. klutz*

    How often should I check up with recruiter from an agency? I’ve checked up a couple of times if she had anything over the past 3 months but nothing yet. Is it ok to check in every couple of weeks? Once a month? Or just wait for her to let me know if something comes up?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Is the recruiter working for you to do hiring or working for a company to hire employees?

      3. Anonymous Educator*

        I’d check in every month or so, then, if there are active searches going on. If she keeps coming back to you with nothing after three months, I’d ditch that recruiter.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          I should qualify that.

          If you have been working with this person on a particular job at a particular company, I’d check in every 2-3 weeks.

          If you have been working with this person in general (not for a particular job at a particular company for which you are already a candidate), I would check in once a month for two months, maybe three max.

  146. caledonia*

    My work friend went for a higher grade internal job and didn’t get it. This is twice in 6 months and now she is super upset and will leave. I don’t know, its hard. Sigh. Adulting sucks.

    1. babblemouth*

      I’ve been in your friends shoes, and ended up leaving. I got a great job elsewhere, and I’m fine and happy. However, I do frequently look back on my previous employer, wondering why I wasn’t good enough for them.
      I guess an interesting parallel can be made to romantic relationships.

  147. cookie monster*

    I’ve tossed around sending this to Alison but think here is just a good a place as any to get some insight on this old issue. This situation happened years ago so obviously I won’t be addressing it now, but I am really curious about how folks think it should have been addressed at the time.
    My previous employer was an open plan office, street level. Clients were welcome to come in at any time. It was a lending institution so people came in to apply for loans, make payments, ask questions etc. without appointments. We had a long time male client come in for a loan closing in a dress one day. This didn’t phase any of us. We happily discussed that it was stylish dress and that we were impressed with his ability to walk in heels. He happily explained that he lost a bet and the looser had to wear a dress for a full day of normal activity.
    No one thought any more of it. And then this same client started getting strange. I remember calling him one day on something account related and him asking what I was wearing and my response “that’s irrelevant, I was calling regarding X” I was not the only one that fielded phone calls of this nature. We all deflected the best we could. Then, the client came in again wearing a dress, the kind that is made of silk or similar barely there material which hides nothing. He stood in the middle of the open floor plan office in such a way that he was visible to all of the (young female) employees. He was fully and obviously “excited”. He had not come in to conduct any business. As the manager, I attempted to politely direct him on his way by saying things such as “well, if there’s nothing we can help you with, we’ll just get back to work now. Hope you have an excellent afternoon” while everyone basically tried to look in other directions and continue working or escaped to the back room and avoid the situation all together. After entirely too long, he left. I didn’t feel like I handled the situation particularly well and felt like I should have been able to say or do something more clearly to indicate that this behavior was NOT OK. I distinctly felt like this client was living out a fantasy or fetish with unwilling participants (myself and my staff).
    So I called my boss and explained the situation and how horrifyingly uncomfortable it was for all of us and asked for some advice on what I should do the next time it happened-hoping she would have some insight or at least could refer me to somewhere within the company that could help (this was a huge company with all the resources in the world). Instead, my boss blew me off and said there was nothing that could be done. He was a client and we just had to deal with it. She felt it would be inappropriate for me to even ask him to leave despite his having no actual business to conduct.
    10 years later, I’m still bothered by this. I am bothered that I probably should have handled it better; I’m bothered that my staff was subjected to this; I’m bothered that my boss (who admittedly was someone I didn’t respect and whose judgment I regularly questioned in my own head even before this situation) thought that because this man was a client that it was totally reasonable for him to act in this way and for us to not react and her useless response made me really wonder exactly what would have to happen for her to decide a clients conduct was enough to say or do something.
    What should I have done? What would you have done? was there a better way to handle this?

    1. MommaTRex*

      It is perfectly legitimate to fire your clients/customers in a situation like this. I would have thanked him for his past business, but explained that he was no longer welcome on our premises and that we would no longer be answering his phone calls.

      1. Natalie*

        Not only is it legitimate, but you have a responsibility (morally and legally) to protect your employees from sexual harassment from anyone, clients included.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Holy cow! It sounds like the first situation you handled fine, and the phone calls are tricky but you were probably fine, but showing up in see-through clothes with a boner and just standing around should have gotten a quick “I’ll need you to leave or I will be calling the police,” client or not. I’m all for people doing what they want in private with willing participants, but having a fetish doesn’t get you off the hook for obviously over-the-line stuff like that.

      Also, your boss was wrong. Attorneys deal with clients going over the line (sadly, sometimes violently) not infrequently, and part of the way you protect yourself is making those lines as clear as possible, not pretending there are no lines at all.

      1. cookie monster*

        To be fair, the dress wasn’t see through, just very thin material. But thank you for the responses that basically validate that I was not crazy for thinking that telling him to leave under no uncertain terms and calling the police if he didn’t would not have been over reacting.

        1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

          Even if it wasn’t fully see through, he was clearly trying to get a rise out of your office and that’s hugely inappropriate. Sorry, couldn’t resist.

        2. neverjaunty*

          You were not crazy, you did your best in a shocking circumstance, and your boss had the judgment of a squashed mayfly.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I hope you find consolation in the fact that was ten years ago. Society is getting better at a much faster clip. I think it would be fine to say, “Please leave. If you cannot leave on your own then I will call the police to assist you to the door.”

      Your boss was spineless. Maybe she did not know what to do and rather than let on to that she said something stupid thinking that got her off the hook. I have seen bosses do that. When they get called on it later, they claim they never said that because in retrospect they realize how stupid they sounded.

      I just want to say, you HANDLED the situation. While you may think you did not handle it in an ideal way, you did handle it. It’s fine to autopsy and figure out what you would do differently in a parallel situation now, that is how we learn/grow but you do not need to beat yourself up over it. Remember you had a very short time to decide what to do, you were dealing with ten other things at that moment also annnnnd, worst part, you had no training or support for dealing with anything like this. You did well. You resolved the matter.

  148. Temporius Amonymus*

    Well, I mentioned this in yesterday’s snarky post, but I finally broke at work this week and just didn’t go in for the last three days in a row. I am exhausted with the bad attitudes, stupid make-work, and absurd, contradictory client requests . I took advantage of my mini-break to make an appointment with a therapist and look into joining a professional association to (hopefully) accelerate my job search out of here. What a crap week, though.

    1. Ramona Flowers*

      So sorry you had such a crap week. I’m glad you’re taking care of yourself – I hope the therapy goes well.

    2. Chaordic One*

      Good for you seeing a therapist to help you through this. (The professional association sounds hopeful. It’s not something I would have thought of.) It sounds like you’re doing a good job of self-care.

  149. What is this skill?*

    I have a skill that I have learned is pretty unique, but I don’t know what to call it or if there is a good way to describe it.
    I can observe a communication and, when/if there is a breakdown, I can pinpoint exactly where the breakdown was and how to come back to understanding. Something like, “Person A, you thought Person B meant xyz but really they meant abc.” Person B says “yes exactly” and everyone is happy to be not talking past each other anymore. (I definitely consider time, place, and manner, and I do not insert myself into conversations where I don’t belong, but this helps in staff meetings and similar settings.)
    What the heck is this called? Or how can I describe it more eloquently than I just did?

    1. Junior Dev*

      I don’t know what specifically that skill is called but it seems like a major part of conflict mediation.

    3. babblemouth*

      Sound like empathy to me :) And congrats, that is not a common natural talent to have. Conflict mediation can be one thing to do with it as Junior Dev mentioned, but also client relations is a good use of it.

      1. JamieS*

        I don’t think it’s empathy since it’s the ability to understand what people are saying and not what people are feeling. Conflict mediation is an excellent term to describe it though.

    4. fposte*

      I would call it facilitation; I’m generally pretty good at it too. I would be careful about storytelling it, though, because though sometimes it’s really helpful sometimes it’s also really strongly disliked. So rather than using the exact phraseology you used I would talk about being good at facilitating group communications, negotiating misunderstandings and clarifying goals.

    5. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Oh! I have this too. It’s both a blessing and a curse, isn’t it? (I find myself stressed when I can see two people are talking past each other and I feel obligated to intervene.) I’ve always thought of it as “interpreting,” but I think fposte is right that “facilitation” is the way to say it in a job context.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        It’s both a blessing and a curse, isn’t it?

        Seriously though. I have this ability too and it can be incredibly frustrating sometimes.

      2. Anonymousaurus Rex*

        I feel like this happens to me All. The. Time. It’s especially frustrating when I’m cc’d on an email trail between people several layers above me at my organization and I can absolutely see how they are misunderstanding each other, but I don’t have the seniority to step in and explain it to them without feeling like I’m acting out of turn (or worse– like a know-it-all).

      3. JamieS*

        I would say it’s actually both since ‘interpreting’ and ‘facilitating’ are describing the two components that make up the whole: the ability to understand what’s being said (interpreting) and the act of mediating (facilitating).

    8. Anxa*

      What’s weird is that I’m excellent with this, but I am not a skilled communicator myself. Just today I posted about not being able to communicate effectively to my audience or engage them in conversation.

    9. What is this skill?*

      Thanks for the helpful descriptors! I never thought of it as mediation before, but yes, that fits. Glad to know there are others who understand this gift/curse! Have a great weekend, all!

  150. July*

    I have a double name, think “Peggy Sue.” No one calls me Peggy. No one at all. There’s a dude at my job who uses everyone’s name in almost every sentence. And he calls me Peggy. I didn’t initially correct him, because I figured he’d notice he’s the only one and self-correct. I sign my emails Peggy Sue. People call me Peggy Sue in his presence. I answer the phone “this is Peggy Sue.” AND YET. It’s been, like, two years, so I feel awkward about correcting him at this late date. Should I grin and bear it? Or actually say call me Peggy Flippin’ Sue?

    1. LQ*

      Never assume people will notice and self-correct! Speak up now too. Just next time he says. “Thanks for the TPS Reports Peggy.” Respond with “I prefer Peggy Sue please, and you’re welcome.”
      If he’s a decent but oblivious person he’ll feel embarrassed that he didn’t know. Just keep moving forward with your conversation.
      If he’s not a decent person just “I prefer Peggy Sue” calmly each time and moving right onto the next thing. At some point you might need to go farther but I’d start by assuming decent but oblivious and correct him in the moment.

    3. Parenthetically*

      Speak up! “Actually, I go by Peggy Sue! Thanks for sending through the TPS reports, I’ll let you know when the summary is ready.”

  151. MissGirl*

    I’m literally standing in line to graduate with my MBA. This former book editor/graphic designer starts next week as a data analyst at twice as much salary. Thanks for everyone’s advice over the last two years.

  152. katamia*

    After doing more research on starting my own business making teapots (what I’d been doing freelancing), I realized that I wasn’t going to make any money off of it, so I’ve decided not to do it. But now I’m a bit at a loss because I feel like I don’t know what to do next. I want to get my MLIS, but I can’t just work retail part-time until I want to start (2018). Does anyone else feel like they just don’t enjoy a lot of the things they’re good at? I’m good at a lot of finicky, detail-oriented stuff, but I hate it. I find it really irritating in a way that I don’t think is going to change, but that’s what most of my work experience is in at this point.

    Whereas I’m not “good” at retail (I’m too sarcastic and annoyed by other people), but I really like the retail job. So I’m starting to look for jobs to apply for (to replace the freelance teapots because I just can’t with it anymore), but what the heck should I even be applying for at this point?

      1. katamia*

        Some of it is that I like the product (bookstore). I also like having different things to do and not being stuck doing one thing the whole time–I have one “default” task that I do, but I’m frequently interrupted (in a good way) if a customer has a question/wants to buy something or if one of my bosses asks me to do something else, then I help the customer/do the other thing. I’m not really invested at all (much as I hate to say this) in the customers, just the product and the “having different things to do” element.

        1. babblemouth*

          Sounds like MLIS will be perfect for you indeed… in the meantime it sounds like the bookstore, while not a perfect match, can be a good in-between. Most of us have something about our jobs we don’t really like, but suck it up cuz a lot of the rest of the job is really nice.
          Sorry, that’s not super helpful…

  153. Junior Dev*

    What kind of dresses can I wear in the office without violating the “no armpits at work” rule? It’s getting hot here so I’m looking for comfy casual short sleeve dresses.

    It’s a super casual office, I’m a software developer and all my co-workers are men and they’ll generally wear t-shirts, hoodies and jeans or cargo shorts. My boss often wears sweatpants. So I don’t think I would get in trouble for anything I wore, it’s mostly for my own purposes.

    I’m on the lower end of plus size FWIW.

    1. babblemouth*

      Do you sew at all? I find comfy light dresses with sleeves nearly impossible to find in stores, so i’ve actually been teaching myself to sew to make my own.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yeah, why the hell do designers and clothing manufacturers hear “summer” and automatically think “sleeveless everything that’s cut down to here!” How are you supposed to find something you can wear to WORK!?

      2. Junior Dev*

        Not really. I have a friend I’ve hired to hem stuff but I don’t think she knows how to make anything complex from scratch. I’ve had mixed results with eShakti.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Rather than short sleeves per se, I look for anything drapey in the sleeve area. A loose, fitting 1/3rd or 2/3rd sleeve is pretty comfy even in hot weather. Or go for shorter sleeve with really loose knit short sleeve cardigans.

    3. fposte*

      Lands’ End usually has great short-sleeve knit dresses that I live in for the summer; I also extensively draw on the croppy little short-sleeve Old Navy cotton sweaters that can go over everything sleeveless.

      1. Parenthetically*

        Yes! I have a very light open-crochet shrug that works perfectly to make my tank tops work appropriate.

    4. j-me*

      What about a butterfly-sleeved dress? (The short sleeve version that is almost a cap sleeve.) If you Google it you’ll see some. I’m thinking because the fabric is slow flowly, it will be almost like wearing a sleeveless dress, but it might cover your pits.

    5. GrabappleMcGee*

      I’m usually in my office alone. I keep a light cardigan handy to slip on if I’m going to see people. It has become my “uniform.” This way, I can wear sleeves or no sleeves, doesn’t matter. And I do mean “light” because I live in the south and it is hot as Hades here already.

      Would that work for you?

    6. Ms. Meow*

      I’m on the lower end of plus size too, and I have trouble with shirts and dresses not only revealing armpit, but also sideboob. I have an arsenal of short-sleeved, cropped length cardigans that I wear with offending tops.

    7. Temperance*

      I’ve been living in the Carly by Lularoe at work on casual days. I love it. It’s swingy and light, and it has sleeves.

      1. Red Reader*

        Yep — Carly and leggings has been my go-to for on-site days for the last several months. In fact, there were four Carlys (out of 14 people, 12 women) in my training class yesterday.

    8. MissMaple*

      I usually go with a t-shirt and a comfy, athletic-inspired skirt. That’s what I’m wearing today, black tee from somewhere and a Toad & Co stretch skirt. Good luck :)

  154. babblemouth*

    Can I get virtual high fives? I worked all week on an awesome project and presented today to the leadership in my department. It went beyond awesome and next week they’re going to pitch it to the company’s senior management as “please fund this, it has the chance of being absolutely incredible.”
    The whole project is my baby, and I’m just so proud of how well it has been received. I feel like it’s a career turning point for me if it keeps going this way.

  155. Name changed for this one*

    I feel completely let down by my manager.

    I work for a charity that supports people who are in serious crisis through helplines, advocacy and more. Many of our contacts are suicidal and some have actively made an attempt. I hear a lot of graphic, upsetting information, from details of self-harm to disclosures of childhood abuse.

    When you do work like this, it is good practice to provide support to help your staff cope and avoid vicarious trauma (especially as we work with suicidal people). We have a supervision group as part of this which is great. I find it really helpful and think it’s important to go – in fact in my last job I would literally not have been allowed to work if I hadn’t gone to enough supervision sessions. I’ve had some training in psychotherapy and it’s been absolutely drummed into me that supervision is important. And my work invests it and I had agreed with my manager in writing that it was a priority both in terms of effectively doing my job and to help me stay well – I’ve largely recovered from some mental health problems of my own and need to take care of myself. I am a suicide attempt survivor and actually wrote about this in my application (it was relevant and not an overshare) so it’s a no brainer that I need to take care of myself.

    I just had to back out of a work commitment – a presentation someone else could do – as it clashed with supervision and my manager tried to tell me I couldn’t. She said I needed to do the work I was there to do and this was ‘something extra’. Uh, excuse me?

    Amazingly I had the presence of mind to tell her no, sorry, we agreed in writing that this would be a priority (in my annual review and in a reasonable adjustments form she signed). I do do the work I’m there for (I got the highest scores for absolutely everything in my review FFS) and this is something that helps me do that – and was a factor in accepting the job.

    She said to leave it with her. I followed up by email and reminded her that this was in my official objectives as well as an agreed adjustment. She apologised, said my wellbeing was important and she didn’t mean to sound unsupportive and it was okay to go ahead and prioritise this.

    I just feel so shell shocked and so letdown. My manager is actually leaving as she was maternity cover and the person coming back is lovely (I’ve not worked with her but have met her at social events) so I don’t think I’ll have this problem but I feel like the rug has been pulled out from under me. I have gone from feeling confident that I’m supported in a difficult role to feeling really shaken. Rationally I know it’s okay. How on earth can I get back to feeling okay emotionally as I don’t want to spend my last few weeks with my current manager at BEC stage?

    1. fposte*

      Has she otherwise been a good manager? If so, it sounds like a stressed manager trying to get stuff together before she leaves the position messed up, and then realized it and apologized. If that’s the case, it seems a pretty speedy trip to BEC on your side for a rectified mistake; unless there are other indications, I don’t think this is a core sample of her view of support overall or anything similarly global.

      1. Name changed for this one*

        She has been a good-ish manager – basically she’d be stellar in a more corporate organisation but she doesn’t quite get some of the emotional aspects of what we do. I think you may be right about wrapping up – though I did also wonder if she had just sort of mentally checked out.

    2. LCL*

      You did great here. Your temporary boss overlooked something, you reminded her of it in a professional manner, and she apologized and fixed it. Everything is good, this is how good workplaces function. It sounds like you are now committing the classic mistake of believing that your manager keeps every aspect of your employment in mind when she gives you an assignment. I used to believe this, and would always be getting angry at management. Managers don’t usually make this kind of mistake to hurt you, they make it because they are thinking about a million things at once and forgot. Especially ones acting in a temporary capacity. There are jerk managers out there, but yours isn’t, and proved she isn’t by apologizing and doing something about it. Be very glad you are working for a normal rational human being.

      Or as my mom always told me when I would come home talking about how I was going to beat someone up because of a perceived snub, ‘you ain’t the center of the universe, they aren’t even thinking about you.’

      1. Name changed for this one*

        Thanks – I guess I did handle it professionally.

        Re the second part: I’d agree if this was something really personal to me and not something my grandboss funds for everyone in my team who wants it.

        1. Name changed for this one*

          Or to put it another way: I get her forgetting it’s a particular priority for me. I’m still gobsmacked at her describing it as some kind of recreational extra.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            As gently as possible I am asking: Did she say “recreational extra” or just “extra”?

            Recreational extra would indicate that she knows little about the job or the impact of working in such a stressful environment. I might even consider reporting the comment to higher ups, I would be sure to say she apologized but I am concerned that she does not understand what the group does here.

            If she just said extra, well, it is extra for others right? She just lost sight of the fact that it was not extra for you.

            You were there, not me, so you will figure out the best answer in the long run. Many times I ask myself “Is it worth it to die on this hill?” And sometimes the answer comes back YES.

            1. Name changed for this one*

              Okay, so she didn’t say the word recreational but, as mentioned, she separated it into “the work you’re here to do” and “something extra” and made it sound like going to a spa. It’s true that it’s extra, insofar as it’s optional, but she made it sound like a non-work activity I did for fun and not something they provide to help me do my job. I’ve protected it because it’s really important to me, but anyone should be able to prioritise it if they need to. As she’s leaving, I’m dropping it – otherwise I would be talking to grandboss as it’s totally a hill worth dying on.

              But aside from venting I’m not really posting to try to figure out my manager or justify/criticise her but because I now need to take care of my reaction and get back to feeling okay. So it doesn’t really matter what she meant or why, I just need to regroup.

              1. Name changed for this one*

                Ended up calling our EAP line and talking it through – I was ruminating and it had brought up some family of origin stuff but feel loads better now. I also realised I sounded like I was asking my manager what priorities she’d like me to have, instead of letting her know what the situation was.

  156. Umvue*

    From reading this site I’ve realized I do not at all understand the taxonomy of leadership: team lead vs manager vs boss. It seems like some posters and some commenters have quasi-bosses who manage them somehow, but they officially report to someone else; and of course we see the converse too, people who have subordinates that they somehow have to manage without actually being part of their reporting chain. What is this about? What’s the advantage to setting up a workplace this way?

    1. fposte*

      Here’s what we have. I’m the boss. I have one subunit with several employees that operates with a lot of independence and self-regulation, and we call the senior employee there the team lead. In a familial sense, she’s the big sister you have to listen to when Mom’s away. That’s helpful because their independence means I’m not really in a position to do day to day direction, and because it’s useful to have somebody in the group with “final word” authority.

    2. Red Reader*

      On my team, we have our individual contributors, then we have me and my co-lead (team leads) who handle training and work product feedback for both new trainees and existing team members but have no HR responsibilities for anyone, then we have our manager who handles our overall team goals and has HR responsibilities for both the ICs and the leads.

      Basically we as team leads are the “in the trenches/boots-on-the-ground” resource for work product for our team (22 ICs), while our manager handles more of the administration/reporting that has to happen back and forth between us and the higher-ups in our division to keep our overall metrics on track with the division’s overall metrics and goals.

    3. jamlady*

      I think this depends on industry.

      Environmental science programs in government contracting generally have the same kind of hierarchy:

      Gov Agency manager – sets projects and all that fun stuff
      Company Project manager – works with client to ensure they’re happy with performance, usually located somewhere else
      Task Manager/On-site lead – manages the teams on the ground and works directly with client on a daily basis

      The only exception in my experience is my current job, where I’m task manager, but I have so many teams under my thumb in the field that I had to assign team leads. I have full management responsibilities over these individuals and I even deal with the ins and outs of contract funding and deliverable timelines, which is usually reserved for the project manager. Our project manager actually doesn’t do much because he’s constantly writing out bids for more contracts and networking.

  157. Me*

    I’m in paranoid mode now and starting to wonder if maybe I shouldn’t have someone call my former employer and see what they’re saying about me. I’ve been blown off for jobs I should have gotten an interview for.

    Getting fired isn’t good, but it shouldn’t disqualify me from everything ever in the entire world. While my attitude about it could have been miles better, it’s not really my fault they changed the job completely from what it was. I would have been let go eventually even if I were the world’s biggest Pollyanna. And though HR said I was eligible for rehire, I’m not wondering about HR. I”m wondering about NewBoss. If anyone called her, what would she say? Or imply? OldBoss would sing my praises to the skies; she’s first on my reference list so I’m not worried about her. But she said no one has called her.

    The only other thing is that either people think I’m overqualified or they think because I worked at that company that I’d ask for too much pay. They could just TALK to me about that; it would take two seconds to phone screen it.

    Speaking of phone screens, I did get a call from a recruiter today for a division of a large computer company you would have heard of, about an entry-level editor position. I applied for it anyway even though it’s in a place I would rather slit my throat that live, because it’s within driving distance and could be done remotely. Unfortunately, they want someone onsite. HOWEVER……the recruiter wanted my resume and wanted to connect on LinkedIn (which he did). He also said if I saw anything else there I wanted, that I could contact him directly now that I’m in their system. (Which could be just for his numbers or could be legit, I can’t decide.) If you have something good in L.A., I’m all over it, dude.

    1. babblemouth*

      It’s a bit sneaky, but could you ask a friend to call your ExNewBoss pretending to be asking for a reference for you and see what they say? Either you’re right and you can at least ask for explanations (or remove her name from your references list altogether) or you’re wrong, and you’ll know you need to look for root causes elsewhere.

      1. Me*

        ExNewBoss is not on my list of references–she’s my most recent supervisor. OldBoss was the one who retired. We got pulled into ExNewBoss’s department after that happened. I can’t avoid giving her name; I have to put her down on many applications.

        I didn’t do that great under ExNewBoss, but I always put OldBoss right at the top of my references because she LOVED me. :)

    2. fposte*

      If you haven’t gotten an interview, it’s highly unlikely that it’s a reference issue; it’s just not worth the effort to call candidates’ references pre-interview. I think it’s just a crap job market for you, and I’m hoping the recruiter turns out to be a treasure.

      1. Me*

        NOT a reference–NewBoss, who was my last supervisor. I’m sorry if I didn’t make that clear to everybody And yes, I do hope he is. I’d love to come back to an open thread like, “I just got [the perfect] job in L.A. with room to grow and pays enough to live on with a decent commute from [area I looked at and liked] and I’ll be moving in two months!” Well, I can dream anyway. :P

        Oh, and an agent, LOL. There’s still that, Universe.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Like fposte said, it is incredibly rare for an employer/recruiter to take the time to call someone’s references before even bringing them in for an interview.

      1. Me*

        To clarify, I was worried about what NewBoss (my most recent supervisor, the one I was working for when I was fired–who had someone else fire me, btw) might be saying. NOT a reference.

    4. Menacia*

      I’m curious, did you list NewBoss as a reference, otherwise would they even know to call NewBoss? The only information a company’s HR department is allowed to give are your dates of hire and leave.

      1. Me*

        No, I did not use her as a reference. OldBoss, the one who retired, did agree to be a reference, and she would give me a good one.

        But many online application platforms require the name and title of your previous supervisor on the application itself. There is no option to leave it blank. Someone may only call HR to verify employment, though they could also call to talk to a former manager and get an impression from them. HR did say I was eligible for rehire if I found a position that was a better fit. Could also be they changed their minds and are saying I’m not.

  158. CrazyCatLady*

    I’m looking for advice because I’m very concerned my husband (Bob) may be fired. I apologize for the long post—I initially sent this as an email to Alison but didn’t want her to publish it because I’m very nervous. However, we really need some advice and it seems less likely that this will be found among an open thread.

    To make a long story short, my husband’s colleage, John, went snooping around in a networked drive used by managers (there is no policy against accessing these drives, only a policy against storing confidential info in them. However, snooping in the drives is morally questionable). In that drive, he found a document that listed everyone’s salary, performance score, and the company’s assessment of each person’s “market value.” John sent the link to Bob, who opened it. Bob looked at it (found out he was ranked number 1 in his division and paid $50,000 less than his “market value.”) Bob I also clicked around in the folder it was in but found nothing else. Bob then told two close friends. John told several people, who clicked on it and then told several other people.

    Someone informed HR that they were upset that someone found their “personal information.” HR started an investigation, eventually getting to John and asking “do you know of any document with salary info on it.” John then brought Bob into the mix by mention a spreadsheet Bob had with project expenses, including hourly rates, that Bob got legitimately and shared with others. John then asked Bob to back up his story. John and Bob are friends, so Bob backed it up. Then John found out they knew about the other spreadsheet, so he went and confessed. So they called Bob, and Bob mentioned that he did know about the other spreadsheet but had forgotten about it. They also forced him to tell who specifically he sent it to, which really sucked because they are two of our closest friends and now we are concerned they will be upset with us. In total, it appears that HR knows of about 8 people that have seen and possibly distributed the document.

    Now HR is saying that they violated the code of ethics by sharing other coworkers’ private information. (To some, they are saying that “sharing salary information is against the law,” which is not true—although sharing information they receive in an illicit manner isn’t protected under the law.) HR is considering a range of remedies, but the most recent thing my husband heard from them was that “no one came forward to tell anyone about the forwarding of people’s private information, and we consider that to be a violation of the code of ethics.” They seem pretty serious about doing something about it (although, I have yet to see where this specifically violates a policy. I understand it’s not right and people knew they shouldn’t have clicked on it, but to me it sort of seems like staring at a car accident—you know you shouldn’t look and slow everyone down, but you can’t help yourself). Worse still, my husband is one of two people that lied. It would be hard for the company to fire 8 employees, but less hard to fire the two who lied, especially because it’s a very large company.

    My husband is an otherwise excellent employee who has consistently performed at an incredibly high level—his performance reviews attest to that (as does the document they found). He has apologized for his poor judgement. He asked if other things will be considered and they said yes, but they have told him he is not allowed to inform his supervisor (which is unfortunate, because his supervisor would probably advocate for him and ask that he just be given a written warning.)

    How worried should we be? Should we seek out the advice of an attorney? (It’s worth noting that they say the whole problem is the “ethics violation of sharing personal information.” The only information on the document was salary information and performance rankings, which might run afoul of the NLRA (I’m a legal researcher but not a lawyer). Obviously snooping in other people’s drives is a different story, but they don’t seem to be upset about that—just the sharing of salary information, and the company culture actively discourages people from sharing their own information.)

    1. Ann Furthermore*

      Ugh, what a mess. I’m sorry for all the stress this is causing you. Is there anything specifically in the company policy about sharing personal information, and how that would be addressed? If not, he may be OK. It’s not illegal to share salary information (assuming you’re in the US)…questionable and frowned upon, yes, but not outright illegal. If there was no personally identifiable information in the file (namely social security numbers and dates of birth), that may work in his favor too.

      I think it’s pretty shady that they’re telling him that he can’t tell his supervisor what’s going on. Surely s/he should be brought into the discussion — this could have a huge impact on him or her. It’s not like your husband suddenly being gone (if the worst does happen, which I really hope it won’t) wouldn’t be noticed.

      1. CrazyCatLady*

        There was no personal info, just salary info, performance rankings, and “market value.”

        And my husband is on a project that is important enough that I think his boss would go to the mat for him (replacing my husband on this project would make a high-priority task take about a year longer than it needs to because my husband has the lead on this project for a year). But if he doesn’t talk to his manager, his manager will never have the opportunity to defend him.

        He knows he shouldn’t have looked at the info, but it was very tempting (I know I would have done the same thing). I can absolutely see how he deserves a verbal or written warning, but firing someone for this seems extreme (or at least I hope it is). I also know he lied, but he was trying to not throw a friend under the bus.

        What makes this most frustrating is the person that everyone suspects told HR knew about this file months ago and looked at it himself. He just told HR about it last week. He had recently been promoted (arguably before he should have been, but he happens to have a manager that’s really good at navigating office politics) and had told several people he thought others would be mad at him for getting promoted. It seems like he just didn’t want people to know where he ranked/what his market value was so people didn’t speculate on whether or not he deserved it.

        1. fposte*

          So HR doesn’t know about the file? Then who made the file? (Not that it necessarily matters; I’m just curious.)

          1. CrazyCatLady*

            I’m not sure who made the file. Presumably HR made it and distributed it to managers, and one manager in particular stored it on a networked drive. My husband’s colleague went snooping, told others, including my husband, and each person told other people. They know about at least 8 people seeing it, I believe.

            So they knew the file existed, but not that it was stored on a networked drive that could be accessed.

            1. CrazyCatLady*

              I also just finally read the company’s “personal information policy,” which protects the “personal information” of its employees, clients, and other third parties. It’s definition of “personal information” is the broadest definition I’ve ever seen. (I’m not an attorney, but I analyze legislation for a living so I’ve seen my fair share of legalese.

              It’s defined as “information related to an identified or identifiable natural person regardless of the medium in which the information is collected processed, or transferred. It includes “sensitive personal information” (which is things like race, political beliefs, etc.)” This seems to be almost every kind of information.

    2. fposte*

      Ooh, what a mess. I think I would consult a lawyer. This is really tangled, and having somebody clarify how much the NLRA would operate to exculpate the dissemination and the lying would be really helpful. Sorry–I know this must be hugely stressful.

      1. CrazyCatLady*

        Yeah, I think that’s what we’ll do.

        They seem to be being pretty sloppy about this, given that there could be salary sharing implications involved. My only hope is that it is an indication that they aren’t going to pursue termination.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I agree–and I find it highly suspicious that HR is leaving his manager out of the loop. Usually if you get in trouble that’s the first person who knows about it.

      3. neverjaunty*

        Agree. Find a lawyer who specializes in employee-side employment law. Your husband screwed up, but it really seems like the company is out to punish people for knowing each others’ salaries.

    3. Natalie*

      I would definitely consult a labor attorney. My google skills are failing me right now so I can’t find a cite, but I don’t think this would be considered information obtained in an illicit manner. John didn’t steal a password or break into someone’s office to access this, he found it in an unsecured file in a public drive. That’s the digital equivalent to finding it in an unlocked filing cabinet. (Whichever manager stored the document there certainly messed up, though.)

      Provided he trusts his supervisor to come up with a good cover story, I would also probably tell the supervisor.

    4. AnonAcademic*

      From a data security standpoint, this is totally the employer’s fault for not securing sensitive information (the file should have been password protected at a minimum). From a legal perspective, sharing the document might constitute discussing work conditions, which is protected by law. I would consider consulting a lawyer if only to send the company a firm letter stating what cannot be considered a fireable offense per labor law.

    5. The IT Manager*

      I think you should be worried because the company is being really vindictive about this.

      That said I don’t know what you can do. Forget the “private info” problem, your husband and his buddy very obviously lied to cover their asses during a witch hunt which for whatever reason was really important to HR. He could be fired for lying about it.

  159. Reba*

    Hey, Thomas E who wrote into the open thread last week — if you’re reading, how did the work hearing go?

  160. JobSeeker017*

    Coming to terms with low offer

    After a six-month job hunt, I received an offer for a communications position, for which I am very excited.

    The downside is that it pays $15,000 less than what I previously made.

    Any way to accept the good news and deal with the financial disappointment?

    Thanks!

    1. Former Usher*

      X-$15,000 is probably still a lot more than unemployment and definitely more than $0. If you’re good at your new job you’ll hopefully get raises.

      My pay was cut by 30% at OldJob. My starting salary at NewJob made up some, but not all of the difference. After a couple of years, my salary is almost back to what it was and, with an annual bonus, I’m now actually earning a little more.

      Hang in there. Not everyone get a salary history that is strictly increasing.

      1. JobSeeker017*

        Former Usher:

        Thanks for sharing your story.

        I am so happy to be going back to work but cannot entirely hide my disappointment at the low offer.

        Still, it’s better than no money coming in, only leaving.

        Also, congrats on your salary increase!

    2. H.C.*

      Is there any room for negotiation? If so, do it (and if they won’t budget on salary, see if there’s any wiggle room on benefits, schedule, etc.)

      And if not, do some financial/career planning for yourself (ideally, writing it down so you have something concrete to revisit and check up on later)? And if you aren’t making progress towards those benchmarks or goals, what will you do to address it? (apply for jobs elsewhere, get certifications, etc.)

      And in the short term sense, you can mentally remind yourself that you’ll stick it out for 1-2 years and then apply to higher-paying positions.

      1. JobSeeker017*

        H.C.:

        I have begun financial planning and believe that with some strategic thinking I can continue to pay my bills and save money.

        At the moment, I am just more disappointed that all my job search efforts landed me a position that pays less. Granted, it’s not the C-Suite level job I once held, so that accounts for part of the pay discrepancy.

        Thanks for your advice.

  161. KatieKate*

    Anyone else dealing with headaches caused by staring at the computer? I’m starting to not being able to focus on what I’m doing for long periods of time because I have to look away so often. Tip and tricks? Thanks!!

    1. Parenthetically*

      Blue-blocking glasses, a blue-blocking filter, or a program like twilight or f.lux would be my first go-to. Plus maybe an anti-glare coating for your screen?

    2. paul*

      any chance of getting a better monitor? A higher refresh rate worked great for me (cost a damn pretty penny though). Paired that with a blue blocking screen and it did wonders.

    3. Manders*

      I am! I just got some of those blue light filtering computer glasses, and I think it’s helping a little bit? I also made sure my monitor was the right height and I’m taking better care of my shoulders so I get fewer tension headaches starting in my neck/back region. I’m also trying to cut down on screen time outside work, because looking down at my phone was not helping.

      On bad days, I try to get out of my chair and find something to clean in the office.

    4. Nanc*

      Do you wear glasses? If so, check with your eye doctor about separate computer glasses. I went this want a few years ago and it made a huge difference in reducing headaches and eye fatigue. If you don’t wear glasses, disregard!

      1. BackAgain*

        This is what I was going to reply. Definitely look into getting a prescription for use on the computer. Measure or have someone measure the distance you prefer to sit or comfortably sit from your computer screen(s). Your eye doctor will probably ask you what the distance is and it makes a difference in the prescription. My eye fatigue and headaches went away once I started wearing my computer glasses.

    5. Hermit Crab*

      I’ve been wearing Gunnar glasses for this purpose for the past year or so. They can be pricey (mine were $60 on sale), but I personally find them worth it (I get bad migraines from computers). If the price is too much, Amazon has “computer glasses” at a wide range of prices.

      On my personal computer, I use Flux to turn the harsher light down too. Not sure if that’s feasible at work–but you might be able to find a matte screen you can put over your monitor (not a stick-on one–the kind that you can take on and off).

      Would taking brief breaks every hour or so help? It’s not ideal, given as you say part of your problem is having to look away, but I found that helped too

      1. Hermit Crab*

        Woops, I should’ve reloaded to see all the responses! Looks like everybody has you covered. Good luck!

    7. DiscoTechie*

      It’s worth a trip to the optometrist if you wear prescription glasses. I am extremely near-sighted and was having headaches on work days. Turns out that my normal glasses are optimized for distance and add in slightly unaligned eyes my eyes were working very hard to read a close computer screen and correct the alignment issue. I ended up with a pair of “computer” glasses that are my prescription with a bit of magnification that’s optimized for the short range stuff and my doctor gave me some eye exercises to help the muscles in my eyes correct the alignment issue. I’m now such a nerd that I have two pairs of glasses. :)

      1. Elizabeth West*

        This happened to me with contacts. They were distance-oriented and I had to wear readers to use the computer. REALLY annoying. Now I have multifocal lenses and couldn’t be happier.

  162. AnotherAlison*

    I had this question come up with my mother last weekend, and we didn’t know the answer.

    She was in an accident & broke her pelvis in March. She can’t walk unassisted or drive, and the recovery is expected to be 3-6 months. She was still working and had disability insurance, so she’s covered for 6 months salary by that. We were debating whether she could be let go after 12 weeks of FMLA was up, if she didn’t return to work by then, and if the company wanted to. (No signs that they would let her go. The job is being covered by current staff.) She’s also 64, and has her retirement accounts funded, so she’s not too concerned either way, but I was curious. My dad didn’t think they could let her go while she was on disability.

    1. fposte*

      Absent something weird, your dad is wrong. Disability doesn’t protect your job, just your pay; FMLA protects your job. It’s possible there are other reasons the company would be ill-advised to let her go after FMLA ends (they’ve always given extra time to male employees, for instance, or any relevant state laws), but there’s nothing about disability insurance that keeps her job when FMLA runs out. Sorry about your mom, and I hope she heals fast.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        Thanks fposte. You and I are on the same page. I didn’t think her job would be protected beyond the 12 weeks, but I didn’t want to keep telling my dad he was wrong. He’s agitated enough as it is. Right now, my mom will probably be around 4 months out of commission, and she’s been at her job for 30 years, so it would be pretty cold to let her go, but business is business.

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, there’s not much of a victory in being right on this one, and he’ll find out soon enough anyway if they can’t go beyond FMLA.

  163. Skye*

    I was told that I’m just going to have to deal with weekly tips not being paid out correctly because the person doing them is also taking care of their kid at the same time and thus gets distracted. (Though not in those exact words.)

    4. JulieBulie*

      Do you have this in writing (like, an email)?

      If not, multiple coworkers as witnesses?

      This is crazy. There is no excuse for incorrect pay.

      1. Skye*

        No, our one-on-one’s are all verbal. Multiple people have complained about it, but ‘no one else wants to do [tips]’. And it’s ‘just’ the tip money, not our wages.

        I really don’t know how much push-back I can do, as the person making the mistakes has been here ten or so years.

        1. neverjaunty*

          The Labor Board tends not to give a shit about how long tip thieves have been employed at a particular location. Please call them.

  164. Fake Eleanor*

    I’m on the board for my local library friends and foundation group (yes, it’s small, so both functions are combined). I joined about six months ago, and it’s been a period of major turnover and transition.

    I’ve been unofficially offered the position as chair of the board, once there are elections in August. And I think I want to do it — but I’m also concerned a bit about the 12+ months of disarray. I think there’s a lot of potential, but I think the whole thing could sputter out. (Probably not be an epic disaster, but I guess you never know.)

    Any advice from people who’ve served on nonprofit boards, especially in official leadership roles? I do have a general vision for what I’d like to see happen in the year or two that I’d be leading the board — and I think a realistic one, given our current circumstances — but I’d love to know about pitfalls or things to be aware of.

    (It’s all unpaid, and we have no employees, but I hope this is close enough to work-related for this thread.)

  165. kmb213*

    I know I’m posting kind of late in the day, so I hope people see this! Any tips on how to deal with managing your boss’s children? I manage my boss’s daughter and son; both are OK, but not great at their jobs, but the son has a kind of bad attitude. Because there’s not a specific performance-based metric I can point to that he needs to improve upon, I don’t feel my boss will be receptive to me pointing out the issue to him. I can grin and bear it, but it’s really making my work life unpleasant. My job is otherwise OK; I’m kind of casually looking for something new (and thinking of stepping up that search now), but I’d like to be less miserable day-to-day while I’m still here. Thanks for any tips!

    1. fposte*

      Keeping a pillow around to scream in? Because this sounds horrible. Would you keep either of them if they weren’t related to the boss? And it sounds like you’re required to keep your boss abreast of their performance in a way that you wouldn’t be with regular employees, which is bad in its own right.

      I don’t know how old they are, but one possibility is to consider your job with them to be coaching these inexperienced people rather than making them be productive. Because ultimately that’s probably how your boss is considering it.

      1. kmb213*

        Thanks for the advice! I would consider keeping the daughter if she wasn’t related to the boss. She’s still just OK at her job, but has shown improvement and is willing to learn.

        The son, on the other hand, is uncoachable (at least under these circumstances). He’s pretty intelligent and I think he could learn quickly if his attitude was a bit better, but he’s just very entitled, which has been a much bigger problem than his productivity levels.

        1. kmb213*

          Ha ha. I call my mother to complain a lot more than I probably should. I figured if I can get all of my complaints out to her, I won’t annoy my friends or the people I’m dating.

  166. Sarah G*

    I am part of a group project at work to develop a plan for an internal video platform for information sharing between divisions, training, etc. Does anyone have something like this at your employer, or have experience developing one? Would love to hear any suggestions about what works, what doesn’t work, or any other ideas. Thank you!

    1. periwinkle*

      We’ve got one! It’s a bit simple but is functional and growing in popularity. Individuals create their own videos (work-related for info sharing, of course), then upload them in the video section of our internal social network system. Some people have used the video platform to share information about major projects while some teams have created targeted training videos for software.

      You can tag videos for content and do some limiting of access; you can also hide it from the search function. The point of the latter is that you can distribute the direct link to a limited group – only those with the link can access the video. Tip #1: you need tagging or some other way to readily search for the content you want.

      Video uploads trigger an automated message to the individual’s manager, who must approve the video for release. I think all videos expire after a year, with owners given the option of renewing them. These two actions were meant to cut down on incorrect and outdated information being left in the video archive. Tip #2: have a mechanism like this ready from the start.

      So far I’m unaware of any abuse of those system, which has been around for five or six years in limited access and a couple years for the entire company.

      1. Sarah G*

        Thanks so much for the response — very helpful! I love the idea of anyone being able to submit a video, but that the manager must approve it — this allows participation from everyone but with a built-in simple screening method. I also love the idea that they expire after a year with option to renew. And definitely would incorporate tagging. If you see this and are open to me asking a few questions, please post a reply here to let me know. And thanks again!

  167. AlaskaKT*

    (Sorry in advance Alison if this isn’t work related enough. Just let me know if it belongs in tomorrow’s comments instead!)

    I’m so excited, I just (finally) figured out how to network my blog and it has paid for itself now! It only took me a year to figure out that I can do that kind of thing. But I’ve gone from averaging 50 views a week to around 900. Which is good since my blog is about my farm and hopefully I’ll get customers for my products from it!

    Is there anyone else with a blog here that has any tips and tricks for gaining readers/making money? I know I’ve read a few blogs I’ve found here (someone has a historical fiction books blog? I forgot to bookmark it so I could find it again, though I did read some of the better reviewed books) and I like to read about a lot of subjects and see how other people are doing things.

    1. katamia*

      Guest blogs/blog tours are big in some writers’ circles, where Author A writes a post for Author B’s blog, or if Author C has a book coming out soon, they’ll write up little promo or interview posts (individualized, not the exact same words) that Authors D, E, F, and G post on their blogs. So if you have contacts who have other farm blogs or other Alaska-related blogs, that might be something to look into.

  168. Anon Friday*

    My company had a few layoffs this week. One colleague is on vacation and I have a sense they will also be let go when they come back, since they haven’t really been a cultural fit and don’t pay as much attention to detail as we need, and their workload is down. But I know that colleague’s spouse was also laid off a month or so ago and has not found work yet. Our boss doesn’t know this. Should I tell boss?

    1. fposte*

      I don’t think it’s likely to hurt, assuming a good relationship with the boss, but it’s also not likely to change anything, so it’s a personal call.

    3. Peegy*

      why would you tell the boss? Not sure what goal you are looking to achieve by doing that?

  169. BigSigh*

    Well this is interesting.

    Sooooo, customer service worker at the company I work at has reaaaally dropped the ball these last few days. Refusing to do her work, dismissing customer concerns, and being opening rude to our top executive in the office. Real shocking stuff.

    Though I’m not directly involved in her work, a couple middle management people have complained to me today and yesterday, filling me in on the issues. Then today it got to complaining about the amount of times she uses the restroom (which got seemingly excessive). Finally, I tried to say to the middle-aged male HR rep, “She’s having a medical thing that I think she’s a bit emotional about, so while that doesn’t excuse her behavior, this is unusual enough in her work history with us to not weigh it heavily.”

    He got … overly concerned, as the woman is also seeking treatment for anxiety and epilepsy. How in the world am I supposed to explain that the reason I know what’s wrong with her is that, actually, we bonded a few months ago after work hours about IUDs, and she confided in me yesterday that she’s having a breakthrough period and was completely unprepared. Thank god I had emergency tampons, though she didn’t work up the courage to ask me for one until halfway through the day, which explains her frequent trips to the restroom that morning.

    1. fposte*

      This sounds kind of like a mess–why are they complaining about bathroom attendance when she’s got serious behavioral issues, and why is this all coming to you? If you could roll back time, I’d phrase your comment differently and take the word “emotional” out of it (“That was just a medical thing occurring just for the day, actually” or something like that), but I don’t think it’s a big deal that they had a different takeaway; the anxiety might be more relevant to the overall picture anyway.

  170. BackAgain*

    Here’s a question for HR/Payroll/Administrative Managers.
    How long does it take for over-concern and guilt type feelings to dissipate when discussing who will be laid off and why? That squeamish feeling you get when a manager needs to “rank” their employees listing their top workers they wish to hold on to while listing the reasons they want to get rid of others?

    I’m being crossed-trained and it strikes me as callous these conversations and how matter-a-fact the layoff process is with Administrators. I know it’s their job and they are used to having to have these conversations. I don’t have an issue participating but I’m hyper-aware these are human beings with families and just how devastating being laid off could be.

    The feelings intensify knowing a couple employees who have asked for and are hoping for (and we’re led to believe) they’ll be a raise. They have heard their peers received raises and/or promotions. The truth is these people and more will be receiving layoff notices soon.

    Am I wrong in seeing callousness in these as conversations when processing layoffs is just a part of the job?

    1. Jules the First*

      The thing to remember is that it’s not your call who gets laid off – it’s your job to make sure that they get what they deserve, promptly and without errors when they do get laid off. The squirmy feeling at the pit of your stomach from knowing who is at risk is unpleasant, and will be back with every round of layoffs you are involved in, but remember that it is painful to know who is at risk, more painful to be the one who has to break the news, but worst to be the one who gets the news. It’s less about callousness and more about protecting everyone’s mental health by being as dispassionate as possible about who goes and who stays.

      1. BackAgain*

        Thank you. This helps. I guess the best thing I can do is make sure the separation process is smooth and as painless to them as possible. Making sure money owed​ for Leave accrued, etc. happens as soon as possible.

        1. ..Kat..*

          And who to contact if they have questions or think some benefits weren’t done correctly.

  171. Backwoods Ranger*

    My current dilemma:
    I work in natural resource conservation and have a BS in wildlife biology. Generally to get year round work with a BS you work seasonal positions to grow your resume and make networking connections until the right person retires at the right time. It is very competitive and some people spend up to ten years doing seasonal work even with advanced degrees.

    I am three weeks into a seasonal 5-month position with a large nonprofit conservation organization that I worked for last year. My boss and co-workers are excellent, supportive and have been great references. I was a runner up for year round, full benefit positions 7 times this winter and had poor luck, so I returned to my seasonal position.

    However, I just got THE CALL, and one of the conservation organizations that had previously passed on me had their first choice candidate drop out and now they want to hire me for a position in my field that is full time/year round. The benefits are excellent, include housing vouchers, flextime, retirement, three weeks paid vacation and health insurance.

    I feel like I have won the lottery, but my absence will put my awesome boss in a very tough position and she may even have to cancel her vacation to manage our high school intern program if I leave. I feel awful about the timing, and NewJob is willing to wait a month for me to arrive/relocate, but I do not look forward to this conversation. I do not know if a month is enough time for OldJob to find someone and get them up to speed in time to supervise the high school interns.

    I know it is bad form to break a commitment, but if I stay in Seasonal Job I will have to leave in September and go back to temping with my health insurance at the mercy of the current USA administration.

    Does anyone have any suggestions of things I can do to make this as easy as possible? Is it reasonable to go back to NewJob and ask to start in two months to help OldJob or will that be too much of a risk?

    Overall I suspect Boss will understand, they know how hard the field is, but I had hoped to ask them to write a grad school rec letter and I also consider them a friend.

    1. Unity*

      No suggestions but I’m glad somebody in my wider field is getting ahead for once. Congrats.

    2. H.C.*

      You can definitely ask NewJob to see if they are willing to delay your start date for another month (I did and got it), but be prepared for them to say ‘no’.

      Either way, I would say let your boss asap to give the largest possible window of notice to transition, recruit & train your replacement. Given that the standard notice period is two weeks, a month should be more than enough for them to transition or train someone else into your duties. During that time, also think about what you can do to help ease the transition (e.g. documenting your tasks, creating ‘cheat sheets’ of contacts / processes, updates of what projects you can complete by last day vs. what will still be in-progress, etc.)

      And don’t worry too much about the bad timing aspect of this, most bosses would understand – moreso because of a transition from seasonal to permanent job. Congratulations.

    3. Temperance*

      I think you need to talk to your boss about this. You can’t pass up this opportunity, especially in the current political climate.

    4. paul*

      Good luck! I honestly shied away from pursuing a career in wildlife ecology based on seeing how much some of my friends and mentors struggled to find permanent work in the field. When you’re seeing a person going from seasonal to seasonal stuff with a masters it makes you really rethink things as an undergrad, or it did me.

      Take the job, if it’s with a reputable organization.

    5. Anon Anon*

      Given the state of the industry, I suspect your boss will be thrilled for you, as she may have been in a similar position.

      So I’d rip off the bandaid.

    6. Backwoods Ranger*

      Thanks all,

      I plan on telling Boss as soon as I see her in the office after the weekend. We are often ships passing in the night, she is currently part-time and was not in today or I would have said something right then. I want to have the conversation in person if possible.

      I debated calling her at home but she has a lot of family stuff plus would not be able to do anything about it until a weekday anyway.

      Buut other then that I still cannot believe it, I have been reading askamanager religiously since I graduated and it really helped me perfect my interviewing skills, tighten my resume and be very strategic in the seasonal jobs I accepted. Thank you Allison!

      1. Overeducated*

        Congrats! I know how hard the field is and everyone knows you have to go for the full time job when it comes. Your boss may be frustrated but if she’s a good boss she will understand and be happy for you, it is very likely she has had this happen before. And really full seasonal staffing is her problem, not yours. That’s what she gets the year round salary and benefits for ;)

  172. Is it Friday Yet?*

    My SO is unemployed and has been applying for jobs for the past couple of months. Unfortunately, he had a domestic dispute with an ex, so there are some pending charges that show up when you do a background check on him. He has been working with a recruiter who is aware of all of this, but the recruiter told him these charges would not be a problem because they are pending, and he has not been convicted of anything. Well flash forward to this week. My SO received an offer from a company through the recruiter. He had to complete a drug test and do a background check. He passed the drug test, but of course all of his charges showed up on the background check. When he asked the recruiter if he should be worried, the recruiter said it would be up to the company. I’m a little peeved with the recruiter because I feel like he gave my SO false hope when he initially said these pending charges would not be a problem. This is mostly a rant, but if anyone has any advice, please pile it on.

    1. Temperance*

      Your SO needs to get that record expunged. If the charges are still pending, as in a trial hasn’t happened yet, they will show up on a background check.

      1. Is it Friday Yet?*

        Unfortunately, we live in a state that makes it difficult to get anything expunged.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      How long ago were the charges? Most background checks only go back about 7 years.

      However, the recruiter should have done their due diligence and found out up front what the client’s requirements were in terms of a background before they submitted your SO.

      1. Is it Friday Yet?*

        Within the last year. I agree, so I’m a little frustrated on my SO’s behalf that the recruiter just submitted him anyway.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Why are the charges still pending? Just the wheels of justice turning slowly?

    3. Beezus*

      Assume it will always be a problem, unfortunately, because it will probably follow him, especially if he is convicted or takes a plea.

      If they give him an opportunity to explain the charges, he needs to be able to explain them briefly, without a lot of dramatic detail and without a lot of emotion, which may be difficult. He should give an explanation that paints him in the best possible light, while still being honest and without bashing his ex. If he actually did something wrong, he should be honest and abjectly remorseful about that.

      My SO has a domestic abuse record that stems from a single incident almost 20 years ago. He pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge and served a brief jail sentence. It still comes up. The attitude I described above helps.

      1. Is it Friday Yet?*

        Thanks, should he explain this to them before or after they do the background check?

        1. Beezus*

          There’s no right answer there. If he explains it in advance, there’s a chance they wouldn’t have found it and a chance it’ll color their opinion when they otherwise wouldn’t have known. If he doesn’t explain it, and they find it on their own, they have a chance to form an opinion and maybe make a decision without hearing his story. If he absolutely didn’t do it or if he was clearly just defending himself, then it’s a better idea to bring it up first. If the charges are dropped or he’s found not guilty or if enough time passes that it matters less, then it becomes a better idea to not mention it, because reasonable employers won’t care.

          My SO doesn’t disclose his past in the application phase unless answering a question honestly requires it. If he’s getting to the references/background check part of the process and he has an opening to explain it, he’ll bring it up then – he should probably stop doing it because it’s been so long, but that’s his call and not mine.

          1. Detective Amy Santiago*

            Most charges fall off after 7 years, so it might be worth it for him to pay to run a background check and see if they are even still showing up.

            1. Beezus*

              All background checks are not created equal, though. It’s public record, so I assume that if someone wanted to find it, they could. We looked into getting it expunged and decided it wasn’t worth the cost and effort.

              He hasn’t been job hunting for a few years now. Next time he does, I’ll push him to not mention in anymore.

  173. Zen Cohen*

    Sooo….I had a graphic sex dream last night about one of the people I directly supervise. I am happily married and monogamous, and this person is not someone I am physically attracted to or have any sort of relationship with other than strictly professional.But I cannot help feeling really flustered right now whenever I see them, and I’m having a really hard time processing this dream. Why did this happen?? Has anyone else experienced this? How do you stop feeling awkward about it?

    1. Is it Friday Yet?*

      Not with someone that I supervise, but with a co-worker. Eventually, it will go away. I wouldn’t dwell on it. I know it’s hard to stop thinking about, but in my case, I just found myself thinking about it less and less until I had completely forgotten about it.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’ve had them about coworkers, including a previous manager. The important thing to remind yourself is that they have no idea, so even though you feel awkward about it, they cannot see your thoughts.

    4. Yikes!*

      I had totally forgotten about such a dream until I read your post! And I remember initially being horrified by the dream. So I’d say put it out of your mind, and it will soon disappear.

    5. Epsilon Delta*

      If it is any consolation, I remember the fact that I had a similar graphic dream about someone I worked with. I am not being intentionally vague, at this point that is all I remember! I don’t remember who it was or any details.

    6. Ciscononymous*

      This happened to me not too long ago, so I feel you!

      My understanding of it is that coworker/boss/employee sex dreams (or really, any sex dreams about people you aren’t attracted to) happen for one of two major reasons: A) You have recently achieved a new level of closeness with this person (NOT romantic) or B) some aspect of their personality or something that they have appeals to you in some way. Maybe they’re outspoken and you’ve always struggled with being shy. Maybe you’re on a strict diet and they had your comfort food, who knows? Or, like in my case, maybe you’re feeling weird about the sort-of-but-not-really-leadership role you’ve started in, and the person in your dream is someone who has worked their way up and earned their success.
      That view of it helped me to minimize the awkwardness. Jim, the real-life person isn’t really affiliated at all with Jim, guy in my intimate dream. If you can suss out the not-sexy meaning of your dream, that might help too.
      Time will also help. The day after is rough, and maybe the day after that, but then the dream will fade. It won’t always be as vivid in your mind as it is today.

      1. Ciscononymous*

        Clarification on B that I forgot: “appeals to you in some way” =/= “appeals” in the romantic sense. More like the quality is something that you wish were more developed in your own life.

    7. Felicia*

      I’ve had a similar dream about a coworker and just reminded myself they had one way of knowing, until I eventually forgot all about it.

      I read these types of dreams mean you admire some quality in that person or want to be more like that person in some way.

    8. neverjaunty*

      Brains do this kind of thing randomly. Don’t worry about it, treat it as a wacky neuron thing and the embarrassment will pass eventually.

    9. Momentarily anon*

      Sometimes the brain is like a kaleidoscope and just throws weird stuff together when you’re asleep. It’s gross and creepy to wake up from a sex dream and realize it featured your coworker/boss/friend/sister/teacher/other totally inappropriate person, but if there’s nothing going on in real life, just brush it off and keep going.

      Also, something I’ve found helpful with dreams is to immediately try not to let yourself think ABOUT the dream. The process of remembering and re-visualizing it and articulating what happened in it makes it stick in your memory more. As soon as you wake up and realize you had a dream you’d like to dismiss, try to exclude it from your thoughts and just let it fade away, as dreams often will.

  174. PeanutButterCrunch*

    Anyone else that can share their experience of taking a work opportunity with a foreign or other client that does certain things you personally find morally questionable? It’s a good opportunity but I’m just questioning myself and would love to hear other perspectives. This specific job does not tie to the things I find questionable but I’m still feeling a little unsure.

    1. Incognito*

      I work for an industry that does morally questionable things to be as profitable as possible. I do not work in the parts of that industry that are responsible for the morally questionable things or the things that get us dinged by regulators when caught. Those things are far removed from what I do and from the people I work with. My department has zero control over the questionable things. I keep focused on my work where morally questionable things are not happening. It is a huge company, and I’m far removed from the things that are totally unconnected to me group. I still find it hard sometimes though, especially when I get any updates from execs focusing on profitability, because that profitability is tied to the things I find morally questionable and make me barf a little in my mouth.

      What I am struggling with now is that the company PAC decided since the last election to openly mass solicit for their cause, and even sent out an email urging employees to pressure their Congress people to vote a certain way on a bill. I am really having a hard time stomaching that, because that’s when they crossed the line from a certain group of disconnected people doing morally questionable things to asking others to actively support morally questionable things. Not okay. It isn’t the reason I am looking for another job, but it certainly gives me less incentive to stay.

    2. Chicken*

      One of my friends worked for a large company that is integral to the oil industry. You better believe there is a lot of fishy shit that goes down there. At the time, the economy was not good, and no one else was hiring, so she took the job. After she’d been there a couple years, the pressures of working 20-hour shifts and having no social life got to her, so she moved on to another company.

      I guess my perspective if that if you take a job with a company you know to be questionable, it’s probably best to have an escape plan in place and be ready to deploy it if things get weird or unacceptable.

  175. Incognito*

    Job search: Going well! Interviews are happening! I may not have to wait very long to escape!

    Current work: Ugh. More of same. Earlier in the year, I had reluctantly made cuts on an order given to my teapot parts manufacturers which contained corrections to flaws in the design. They cried and whined and about workload and were even given one of my people and still cried. “We can’t do all this in 4 months!” (Normal timeline is 2-3 months). “We are only adding new features! Take out all these fixes!” No amount of using logic and reason to convince them or our mutual boss that the timeline was more than generous or offers to pitch in worked.

    They are a month ahead of schedule. :/ That’s awesome for them and all that, but I based the entire timeline on a 4 month delivery, and lost one of my people to their team and had to take on that additional work myself. Now I’m behind prepping for the release of the redesigned (but still flawed) handle. That’s not what toasts my bottom though, it’s losing all of the FIXES to the existing flaws in design that I was pushed to agree to on account that they pitched a hissy fit over citing timeline as the only reason they could not deliver. I LOST an FTE to this hissy fit.

    I am quietly seething. I feel like telling our manager “I told you so.” is probably bad form, but I told them so. I built and tested the handles myself for many years. I knew exactly how long it would take to deliver the original request as specified using only the original resources on the handle manufacturing team. My boss agreed with me to my face but walked back in every single gosh darn meeting we had with the manufacturing team. This is why I need to get out, this and about a dozen other reasons.

    My company also refuses to hire more people to perm positions and would rather search for new contractors after their time is up. So my team is losing another body at the end of the month because a contract. Soon we’ll be down two people. It is exceedingly hard to find qualified people right now, and it takes at least 6 months, if not a year or more to get new people up to speed. This is another reason to look elsewhere, my own company’s utter idiocy. I can’t take it anymore. 6 months from now we’ll lose another highly qualified and very smart individual to the same stupidity when his contract runs out. We’re screwed. Maybe at least when I leave my perm position, my boss will be able to justify creating one to replace me, and won’t have to lose the next guy whose contract is about to expire.

  176. Mim*

    Is it possible for a external recruiter to somehow advertise a job that the hiring company never gave to them? Such as Agency B copying an ad Agency A posted? Where the hiring company had only posted the job with Agency A.

    Recently I was looking into going back to work after being a SAHM for the last couple of years. I reasoned that since I’d been out for several years, I’d probably have to start as a temp first (very common in our industry). I can usually tell what company the temp job is for just by the phrasing used. I hadn’t seen anything for my old company with the agency (A) they commonly use.

    Finally, I found an agency (B) that was advertising positions that were obviously for my old company. I’d never heard of B before and their website was not that great. Also they would only accept resumes uploaded in an old version of Word, which was weird. Plus, they didn’t have any offices in the area (their closest office was about 12 hrs away).

    I get a call from Agency B. They want to set me up with an interview at my old company. There were a bunch of weird mistakes on the agency’s part (wrong interview date, wrong number given, etc) and the agency rep switched part way through the process. Finally, I get a call from the hiring manager himself and he asks me to come in for an in-person interview. The interview goes well, but at the end the hiring manager is talking about the next steps, and mentions the position is through agency A. I should have asked about agency B at that point, but the managers were talking for a long time after and I didn’t get a chance to ask (plus I was really embarrassed, thinking that I’d screwed up somehow).

    Does anyone have an idea of what could have been going on here? I haven’t heard anything Agency B since the interview. Frankly, even if the posting was legit, they were so badly organized and unprofessional, I wouldn’t want to work with them anyway.

    1. Incognito*

      It wouldn’t shock me if some people would resort to this to try to get paid for the referral. I have even seen jobs posted that were clearly for my own group while we had no open reqs! That’s also a thing. Sketchy recruiters posting jobs that don’t exist in order to get new leads.

      I have seen a number of companies in my industry post a disclaimer on their site about 3rd party submissions from non-approved partner agencies. This apparently happens enough that multiple companies feel the need to spell out this kind of policy.

      1. Mim*

        Yeah, it really stinks. Since my application is tied to the bad agency, I’m pretty sure I can’t be considered for that position anymore if the hiring company only uses Agency A. The weird thing is that Agency B had the hiring manager’s phone number. I guess I learned a good lesson about trusting shady companies.

        1. CAA*

          This is not quite the same as when a candidate applies directly and through an agency, so there may be a way to save it. Contact the hiring manager and say that you realized after you left that he mentioned Agency A, but your candidacy was submitted by Agency B. He may be confused, or HR may have submitted the posting to the wrong agency, or Agency B may be trying to poach on Agency A’s turf. You really can’t tell from outside.

          If they want you enough, then they can probably find a way to get you employed via the correct agency, whether it’s A or B. The argument here is more between A and B than between the company and an agency.

    2. Casuan*

      Follow your instincts here because there are a lot of red flags.

      my question is:
      Is there anything you could or should report to Company A, in that Company B might be misrepresenting them?
      [This is hypothetical because I don’t know enough about temp agencies or recruiters to suggest you should actually do this.]

      1. CAA*

        Agency B isn’t actually doing anything wrong to Agency A here, so I wouldn’t contact A about this. Any recruiter can try to submit candidates for any role they know about, and they all do it. It’s on the company to tell Agency B that they cannot consider candidates submitted without a written recruiting agreement (assuming that the company wants to work that way).

    3. KiteFlier*

      This definitely happens. I’ve seen my company’s job postings on agency boards that I’ve never worked with/heard of. It’s sketchy and they go on my blacklist.

    4. Pat Benetardis*

      I think the thing to ask (in the future) is whether the firm you are working with has been retained by the hiring company. In my industry there are rogue recruiters who look for postings and the act like they’re the official recruiter when they’re not, and you could have just as easily found the job and applied via their website.

  177. D.D.*

    A large employer that has its headquarters where I live has what they call a “Talent Network” website–you can upload your resume and then use it to apply for jobs. I put mine up there a while back when I was job searching.

    Today I received an email from an HR person “personally inviting [me] to review the available positions and apply.” I took a look and there a few positions related to what I do but nothing that I’d really be qualified for. (Say I’m a teapot strategist. There are jobs for teapot creator as well as a few that are totally unrelated to my qualifications.)

    I’m guessing this is just a mass email sent out to everybody who has some keyword in their profile. Is this a normal thing that happens? I figure if they actually did want me to apply the email would be a little less template-y and actually refer me to a specific position.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Yes, it’s definitely a mass email that was sent based on keywords. I used to work in education related to a specific skilled field and I constantly get “recruiter” emails for jobs doing the skilled position (which I have no experience or qualifications to do).

  178. Mischa*

    My wonderful coworkers are taking me out for appetizers and drinks on Monday as I will be leaving my organization in a few weeks. They’ve chosen a tapas place, which is cool, but they serve shellfish and I’m super allergic. I wish they would have asked what place I prefer instead of just deciding on their own.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Since the lunch is for you, I don’t think it would be out of line for you to mention your shellfish allergy, especially if it’s a bad (potentially lethal) allergy. “Oh, my God. So sweet of you to take me out to lunch before I leave. Is it okay if we go a different place, because I love tapas but am deathly allergic to shellfish?”

    2. fposte*

      Still time to say so–can you offer any alternatives that you know people like that would work better for you?

      1. Mischa*

        It’s complicated — partly because there’s a lack of suitable dining in my area for after work events (there are absolutely no bars to speak of, huge car culture in a bland, wealthy suburb), and partly because my boss Made It So. This is really the only decent place to go to besides Applebee’s. I’m touched that they’re going to the trouble but I’m not entirely looking forward to this. I hate pestering restaurant staff about allergies. It’s embarrassing.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          How bad is your allergy? Will it hit you as soon as you enter the restaurant? Or only if your co-workers order it?

          If it’s the latter, can you ask your co-workers not to order shellfish?

          1. Mischa*

            It’s about a 6.5 or a 7, with 10 being anaphylaxis. I will start getting hives if I’m close to where it’s being cooked. I won’t go into anaphylactic shock unless I ingest it, so I was planning on sticking with drinks only. I think if we sit up front or on the patio it should be fine. And I will definitely be asking people to not order shellfish.

            1. Anonymous Educator*

              I will start getting hives if I’m close to where it’s being cooked.

              Yikes! Yeah, I would just ask your co-workers to seat you away from the kitchen and for them not to order shellfish. Have a great lunch otherwise!

            2. Anna Held*

              Call the restaurant ahead of time! They can reserve a table and be extra careful with prep, etc.

    3. Chicken*

      If your coworkers like you and valued your presence at this org, they will DEFINITELY not want your last memory of them to be getting taken out of the tapas place on a stretcher. If they are put out about receiving a email/text message from you asking to go to a different place so you don’t accidentally trigger your allergy, that’s totally on them and not your problem.

  179. Seven If You Count Bad John*

    Team Social Bonding Update:
    The birthday non-acknowledgement that I was complaining about last week? This week all the April and May birthdays got cake, and balloons with our names on them. So that’s alright. (I didn’t eat any of the cake, it’s just the principle of the thing.)

    Also, today is Taco Day because of Cinco De Mayo (AKA “any excuse for a party, even if it’s commemorating a battle between two foreign countries”). In the spirit of pitching in, I made guacamole. I was concerned people wouldn’t like it, but it was a huge hit–in fact it was nearly gone before I even got to the break room myself, and I got several individual compliments. So that’s alright.

      1. Seven If You Count Bad John*

        It’s nothing special. Avocados, Roma tomatoes, Cilantro, Red onion, clove garlic, kosher salt, lime juice. Put peeled avocado in an appropriate container. Add juice of 1 small lime or eqivalent. Salt, cumin, cayenne pepper, stuff like that, to taste. Smoosh with a potato masher. Chop fine everything that’s not an avocado.Fold all that stuff into smooshed avocado. Eat it straight out of the bowl, do not take to work.

        Some people like jalapenos, I don’t like jalapenos, I also go easy on the cayenne pepper and other spices.

        I really think it’s mainly about the proportions. It should be about 3/4-2/3 avocado to 1/4-1/3 other stuff.

        Honestly, the secret recipe used to be avocado + Pace picante sauce, but like I said, I don’t prefer jalapenos. So now I chop fresh veg.

        1. Analysis Paralysis*

          Ahhh, cumin! That’s what I need to add. Thanks so much for sharing your recipe!

  180. Teapot Librarian*

    SUCCESSES!!
    1. I just got delivered to me generic office business cards (think: Teapot Library, 123 Library Avenue, email library@teapots.com; instead of Teapot Librarian, Director, Teapot Library, etc.). I realized we needed them in November. Asked my boss about getting them in December. Approved the proofs in March. Re-approved the proofs on Tuesday.
    2. My boss approved getting 9 new phones for the Teapot Library the other day. I mean, she approved it in January but the other people involved futzed around with it so long that she needed to approve it again. Meanwhile I have employees without phones.
    And the big one:
    3. HR is calling my soon-to-be new employee to offer him the position!! I’ve had the position in my budget since October, but just like in numbers 1 and 2, other things and other people got in the way. Hopefully we’ll get our new phones before his start date.

  181. Gryla*

    I have a question about job search timelines. I’m finishing up a master’s degree and have an internship lined up for the summer where I’ll be doing work I’m excited about with a very well-known person in my field. I’ve been looking for permanent positions for after the summer and am starting to send out more applications, but I’m not sure how to approach the fact that I won’t be available to start until the beginning of September. I know job searching can take a long time, so I don’t want to wait until the middle of the summer to start applying. But as I apply for jobs now, how and when should I broach the fact that I can’t start for several months? I don’t want to waste anyone’s time if they need someone right away.

    1. MissGirl*

      Put it on your cover letter and resume (Available September 1). It can take months to interview for and find a job so I’d start once you get settled in your internship and have things from that to add from it. Also, be updating your resume each time you have something from your internship worth adding. I started getting call backs in early March for my May 15 start time. Good luck.

  182. Jules the First*

    Got fired today.

    Boss told me I had amazing skillz but am ‘not a good cultural fit’. Boss cried. Boss threw up. Boss left the room.
    I had a very frank, sane conversation with the HR rep who complimented me for taking this so well. I’m like – this was not a surprise, and hey, last boss threw stuff…

    Now I’m waiting for them to get back to me about severance on Monday (what they offered is Not.Enough.). Mostly feeling grateful that they finally got around to firing me (Boss is a nightmare) and thrilled not to have to go to work next week. Is this normal?

    1. Adlib*

      Yes. I was fired 6 years ago, and although I was miserable at that job, I was so relieved! What’s not normal though is the boss crying and throwing up! Judging by your description of your last boss, it sounds like a real circus over there. Enjoy the time off, and good luck on your search!

    2. Seven If You Count Bad John*

      Yes, it’s normal. I’ve had several abusive workplaces that I was so happy to be fired from. See also, “Please don’t throw me in that briar patch.” You’re fine.

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Yup. When Toxic OldJob fired me, I was a little shell-shocked, but realized they did me a favor. I went from working 50+ hours a week with an unreasonable workload to collecting unemployment while I decompressed and searched for a job that was a better fit.

      Fun fact – they had to replace me with two people, so I think they realized that all my conversations with my immediate supervisor about how I couldn’t handle the workload were legitimate.

    5. JulieBulie*

      Not once, but twice in my life I experienced absolute euphoria after losing a toxic job.

      It’s normal.

      Other times, I didn’t feel so great. That’s also normal.

      What is not normal is the boss crying and throwing up, but now you have a fun story to tell!

    6. ..Kat..*

      Wow. Tears and vomit. Are you a bedside nurse like me?

      Sorry you were fired. Sending you good thoughts for job hunting.

  183. Ventanon*

    Vent time.
    We have a newish worker who is … more challenging for an impatient person like me.
    Today, he asked me where something was because he’d never used it before.
    I grabbed it for him and said, “Oh, you have used it before – when we did X.”
    He said, “Oh, I only did it once [we’ve done it twice] and it was here,” gestures to shelf FIVE FEET to the left.
    I replied, “They’re there, too,” and pointed.

    Which, I don’t mind him asking, but I have to teach him everything 3 or 4 times (at least), and the, “Oh it’s very slightly different so I can’t be reasonably expected to find/understand it,” thing is a very constant pattern with him. Which is a problem.

    /vent over.

    1. anon24*

      Oh I understand your pain! I have a co-worker like that. He will tell me he’s never been shown something and not only do I know my boss has shown him but I have shown him multiple times. Just snicker internally and politely teach it to him again. I used to explain why stuff was done, oh you do x because yada yada but I know next week I’ll be teaching him again so I just tell him the minimum of what he needs to know. He’s been working here since September. *sigh*

    2. Name changed for this one*

      I really don’t want to go down the road of armchair diagnosis, so I’ll just say this: some people genuinely can’t find/understand the thing if it’s very slightly different.

  184. Ada Lovelace*

    The rain in NYC has been so intense, three floors of bathrooms at work have been shut down due to flooding and sewage. Staff is not happy but library customers are worse off. There is no bathroom available to them while we at least have one set for all staff to use. To top if off, the public elevator is also out of service. I’m hiding in my subbasement office until 5PM because luckily I am not customer facing.

    1. SophieChotek*

      Oh my goodness. I just looked at pictures of NYC/Hoboken, etc! Looks terrible.
      It’s amazing how “only 3 inches” seems to go much higher!

  185. Ann Furthermore*

    Here’s a random question: what does everyone think the breaking point for the airline industry will be? We have the guy being dragged off the United flight, the people on the Delta flight threatened with jail time and their kids going into foster care if they didn’t give up the seat for their toddler (and I don’t know all the details there, but I do know they paid for the seat, so I don’t understand why there was even a debate in the first place), the altercation about the stroller on the American flight…and that’s just in the last few weeks.

    I read earlier in the week that American is configuring a new bunch of jets to cram even MORE seats into a plane by shrinking the amount of legroom people have and making the bathrooms smaller. I was shocked — you’d think they would realize that people are reaching their breaking point by being crammed into smaller and smaller spaces, and being charged for everything but the air breathe during their flight. And all the airline execs were hauled in front of some congressional committee to testify about their business practices. Even Republican senators were starting off their questions with, “As a Republican, I hate regulation, but…..”

    I feel it can’t continue this way indefinitely. Unfortunately, I think it’s going to take a serious incident where people are injured, or even killed, because they were unable to evacuate the aircraft in time to avoid disaster because of the ever-decreasing amount of room people have, due to the airlines coming up with more draconian ways of shoehorning more people into the same amount of space. And then, the government will be forced to step in and compel the airlines to adopt some basic standards of safety.

    1. Emi.*

      I dunno, I pretty much feel that “crazy airlines” is the current news meme. I don’t think the rash of news stories is actually due to an exceptionally high number of *events*–it’s just events that were already happening, and now they’re worth reporting on. Eventually public attention will drift to something else. I haven’t seen anyone saying that decreasing legroom is actually a safety issue until now, though. (Personally, I like having options like Spirit, because it’s the flying equivalent of how I’ve always traveled–on the bus, or crammed in a janky minivan eating sandwiches, or whatever.)

      1. Ann Furthermore*

        I’ve been hearing it for awhile, and I think it’s a legitimate concern. The airlines all self-regulate on this kind of thing, and it’s easy for them to convince themselves that they’re not compromising safety when coming up with ways to squeeze consumers for yet more money. The planes aren’t getting any bigger, but the number of passengers per plane keeps increasing. That is not a sustainable business plan.

        Airline horror stories have been around forever, but it really seems to be getting worse. Part of it is of course because everyone has a smart phone and access to social media, and stuff goes viral in a hot minute. But really, the airlines keep coming up with ways to screw everyone, even the business travelers that bring in so much money. United now has a minimum amount you have to spend in addition to a miles threshold in order for you to maintain your premiere status, and other airlines have taken similar steps. They keep coming up with ways to charge you more money, and people are getting fed up. No, no one is going to stop flying, but the amount of patience people have for being treated like crap decreases as the fees and number of people crammed into an aircraft increase.

        I keep hoping one of the airlines will take a completely different approach, and make their tickets a little more expensive and market it as a return to the days when flying was a glamorous way to travel. The people who want the absolute cheapest fares won’t be interested, but there are *plenty* of people (including me) who would be happy to pay a little more in exchange for a civilized, pleasant flying experience.

    2. fposte*

      Evacuation problems are pretty common already, though. Basically, we hate it, but not enough to stop flying, and I think that’s probably going to be the key.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Well to be fair, we CAN’T stop flying because we have no decent alternative system for cross-country travel. Trains are slow and so is driving, and many places don’t have rail access (where I live, I would have to drive three hours to St. Louis for Amtrak).

        Business travelers make a ton of money for airlines. Companies aren’t going to start scheduling meetings a month out because Bob has to take Amtrak from Chicago to San Diego and it will take at least two weeks, and what about Carol in Texas, etc. They won’t Skype everything, either. And high-speed rail is a pipe dream. We can’t even seem to fund existing infrastructure, let alone build anything new.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Forgot to add, the train isn’t necessarily cheaper, although I did look and it’s not quite THAT slow. Prices are about on par with an economy ticket. I can get to L.A. from my city in about 4 hours on Cheapo Airlines; Amtrak would take me two days, for the same cost, roughly.

        2. fposte*

          Sure we can. The big bucks business folks aren’t the ones crammed into 19″ seat pitch. We fly because we want to get someplace and we’re willing to trade the squish for the price.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            A lot of business travel is in economy. Not all companies are willing to pay for business class. Though if they let you keep your miles, you can upgrade. But it’s not that simple. Try boycotting flying and see how much of your vacation is taken up with travel time. You can forget about going anywhere that isn’t within a day’s drive of where you live, especially if you only have a few days.

    3. Temperance*

      Adding to your list, Southwest destroyed an antique upright bass last week. They’re all monsters.

      The issue with the family, though, is that they bought that seat for someone who took a different flight. He wasn’t there. If I was flying with my husband and our niece, I couldn’t just swap out our nephew and call it good.

      2. Ann Furthermore*

        True, but they paid for the seat. I think they bought an additional ticket for the other person — but I could be wrong about that though. So it’s not like they were trying to take a seat for free. This is nothing more than Delta seeing an opportunity to shove one more person onto the plane so they could make more money. And I can’t believe the employee didn’t stop and think that maybe it was, you know, a BAD IDEA to threaten a family with jail time and foster care for their children while the entire incident was being captured on who knows how many smart phones. Seriously, WTF?

        I don’t blame the parents for not wanting to give up that seat that THEY PAID FOR. Travelling with a 2 year old sitting on your lap is misery. No 2 year old on the planet, unless heavily sedated, is going to be able to sit still for any significant amount of time. I did it once with my daughter, and it was just a 90 minute flight. It was like being crammed into a sardine can with an octopus on your lap.

        1. Ann O.*

          That’s not really how flying works, though. Most tickets can’t simply be transferred to another person. The computer system that tracks would show that the people checked in were two adults and two kids without seats. It’s unclear to me how/if the family even had a ticket.

          Delta treated them horribly and was wrong for how they handled it, but the Schears were wrong for thinking they could simply transfer the seat from their teenager to their toddler because they wanted to. They needed to talk to the airline in advance and abide by the rules of their ticket.

          Unfortunately, in regard to your broader question, I think industry is going to have to bring their weight to force regulations on the airlines. You’re right that the problem is people have no viable alternatives. I would pay a certain amount more for pre-9-11 coach experience, but no one’s offering that. I can’t afford business/first class prices and certainly not charter or private jets. I love trains, but they’re not fast enough to be an alternative most of the time.

          1. Ann Furthermore*

            I thought they said they asked if it was ok before they boarded. And the person working at the gate scanned their boarding passes and let them on. They could have let it slide…all these rules are rules the airlines have dreamed up and imposed on themselves.

            What’s so galling about this is that the airlines are making plenty of money. The hit the industry took after 9/11 is in the rear view mirror, but they’re still behaving like they’re struggling to survive. They’re not.

    4. ..Kat..*

      I have simpathy with flight attendants. They are seriously understaffed, their pay is not so great anymore (and maybe sucks? Any flight attendants who can offer some insight?). They are dealing with stressed customers who are paying more for less space and fewer amenities. I have read about the psychological stress for customers being crammed in such small spaces. So customers are more demanding, less understanding, more to feel angry and unappreciated. The flight attendants receive the brunt of the anger, but had no say in creating the awful conditions. No win situation.

  186. Adlib*

    I was going to submit this as a question earlier this week, but now it’s just a crazy anecdote from my week.

    We have a director here, Sally. She is in her early 60s, and she’s a bully. She constantly berates her team and is only professional with anyone she perceives as superior (I.e. Management). She often talks in a baby voice, responds to emails angrily, changes her mind often, no-shows to meetings, is manipulative, and tries to boss people around who aren’t her direct reports. In short, very unprofessional.

    Needless to say, everyone generally regards her as a loon even though her boss likely hasn’t seen a shred of evidence but hasn’t asked either. I know this because people talk about it when she’s not around like it’s common knowledge. (For some background, her boss tried to have myself and my former team lead report to this woman. We flat out refused and got to stay put.)

    Unfortunately, I occasionally have to interact with her, and I do my best to be civil and push back at her sometimes ridiculous demands. It all came to a head this week. She was trying to tell me how to run training that she requested of me earlier this week. We have started using a new system, and I am responsible for it. She wasn’t being clear in all of our back and forth so before I answered anymore of her emails, I talked with my boss and another manager who has sway over this new system. We agreed that the solution I was proposing was best. I emailed Sally back, copying the managers I met with, and let her know we had all discussed it and determined what works best (contrary to her plan). Well.

    Sally immediately responded with a rude email (short and basically saying she was canceling the whole thing.) Then, 10 minutes later, she emailed again, this time begging to all talk and that we needed to do it her way. I was at lunch at that point.

    Before I returned, apparently she called my boss and the other manager I had talked to. She was CRYING (possibly crocodile tears but I wasn’t there), complaining that we aren’t ever helpful, she will have to have her boss change her KPIs, and she has no authority. I wasn’t on the phone, but my boss filled me in and he and the other manager were pretty much horrified at her behavior. (Again, 60s, director level)

    We agreed it was likely a misunderstanding because Sally didn’t give me the details that she gave during her crying fit. Of course if I had known that stuff, it wouldn’t have been a big deal. My boss sent an email to smooth things over after we discussed how to proceed.

    I ran the training as we agreed. Sally did not know that I know about her “breakdown”. She was perfectly normal on the call, and even sent a really nice follow-up email. It literally scares me because she can switch gears so fast. Also, I’m worried that this will just teach her she can still get her way if she acts out enough. Sigh.

  187. Chicken*

    I’m new here but I am hoping to get some advice on a cover letter I am writing. I’ve been reviewing all the posts on cover letters here, and mostly they seem to say that acting natural and talking in an excited way about what you care about is. . . a good thing?

    So I have this job in the really specific field I trained for that I really want to apply for, and I’ve made up a list of things I have over a generic/average candidate, and examples to illustrate those things. (“I have specific expertise that is uncommon even in this field –> I did these research projects in my master’s/internships,” etc.)

    One thing I want to say is that I learn fast. The potential example I have for that (of which I’m still really proud) is: I did exactly half of my two-year master’s courses in French and kept a B-average, despite having only taken one month-long course in French prior to moving to the country where I did my master’s. (This was painful and terrifying, incidentally, but by god I did learn fast.)

    I’m not sure this is a good example, because I finished my master’s two years ago, and it’s not exactly work-related. But it’s the thing I’m most excited about including in a cover letter that’s demonstrative of what kind of person I am.

    What do you guys think? My next-best example is about how fast I learned the software and legal code for a job unrelated to my field of study that I held immediately following my master’s, but it’s not something I’m excited about sharing.

    1. fposte*

      Here’s what I’m thinking. In general, “I learn fast” is a pretty standard claim, and it usually comes up when you’re applying for a stretch job where you know you don’t have the skills early in your career–it’s not a senior level claim, and it’s not, as a broad statement, all that meaningful.

      However, I think I’d be slightly more interested in your learning fast if you included your couple of examples but minimized the space they take (I’m assuming that you’re not applying to jobs that involve language acquisition; if you are, these are worth seriously recasting as your big skill). So if you can squeeze the two into a parenthesis that’s under a line, it’s worth a try; I also like the juxtaposition of the code and the language, which draw on very similar cognitive skills.

      1. Chicken*

        Sigh, one of the issues with this job is that a software they use is proprietary and expensive, and so I haven’t learned it. I don’t know any way around that except “I learn fast” (and I do know most of the other softwares they list as necessary.)

        1. fposte*

          I don’t think saying “I learn fast” generally is much of a way around it, unfortunately; the more you can pitch it as “I’ve learned coding, systems, and languages with blazing speed and depth in the following ways” the closer you come to something worth taking up space, but it’s still not worth a lot of room. However, if the software is that specific and proprietary, probably a lot of your competition is in the same position.

          1. Chicken*

            It’s an industry software that’s common-ish in specialist environments, but not as common in academic environments. I’ve used an open source equivalent software and am reasonably proficient in it.

            I think that among my competition of *new grads,* I will not be particularly disadvantaged (and yes I realize I should be more advanced after two years out, but [long story], and here I am in an unrelated job saving up money to move.) I’m not totally sure what percentage of people approach this career from “specific technical program” (of which there are relatively few) vs. “specialization in a broader program” (which includes me); if it turns out to be mostly the former, I may be in trouble.

            1. Jules the First*

              Can you highlight your experience with the open source equivalent and talk about how that will be applicable to the proprietary software?

              1. Chicken*

                Worth a try, anyway! The open source uses the same kind of calculation engine as the expensive software, but it has no GUI (sigh) and just relies on the Unix command line, so I am hoping that if the expensive software is any easier at all it won’t be too bad. (Ugh, even the classes to learn to use the expensive software are $800 a pop.)

                1. Jules the First*

                  Well, I’m pretty sure that you can cope with the custom software if it has a GUI and you’ve been coping with a Unix command line. Highlight those transferable skills! Is there any other uncommon software that you could talk about having mastered in another job? (For example, I got a job using Quark because I could unsnarl Filemaker code, and then got another job a few years later where the benchmark was Adobe InDesign because I could use Quark…)

  188. Non-Raise Raise*

    Update on the weird non-raise by way of paying for expenses. My direct manager came back, with a vengeance. She’s not entirely recovered from major surgery, but this is a culture that rewards killing yourself for the job, so… They haven’t brought up my raise with me since she got back. Pretty sure it’s completely off the table, but if it was only paying my phone bill for a few months ($50/month), I’m not sure if it was even worth fighting for.

    Direct manager is pissed that the head boss and I made decisions without her while she was in hospital, so I’ve been dealing with a torrent of passive aggressive emails. This combined with my usual office bully/dementor meant that I needed to take a mental health day this week. I’ve also had to take a harder line on dealing with the bully, even though I’ve been told that I need to just put up and shut up until after our busy time. I just…it has been a year of this with no change…

    Things are really rough right now – daily panic attacks, stress eating, serious depression… Is it ever worth it to leave without something else lined up? My health is seriously screwed up because of this place.

    1. Ciscononymous*

      “Is it ever worth it to leave without something else lined up?”

      It can be, yes. It depends on a lot of things – can you financially afford the hit of not working if it takes a while to find a new job? Do you have a history of leaving jobs abruptly or would this be the first time?
      My spouse was in a similar situation last November. He told me that he had thought about driving off a bridge so he wouldn’t have to go to work that day, at which point I told him to GTFO and we’d figure out the rest later. He was able to find new employment about a month later and we didn’t end up going entirely without pay at any point. It’s less money but the improvement in his mental state was worth every bit of it.
      Only you can know if that’s the right move for you, but yes, it can be the right move.

  189. MsMarvel8591*

    Hi guys,

    So I have a coworker is is exceptional at her job (probably the best CSR I have come across) however lately she has been having some severe migraines that are making her not able to work and she has had to driven to the ER twice and has already seen a neurologist for this issue. She had another migraine today and I was worried about her (she was in tears she was in so much pain) so I asked my supervisor how she was doing. She said she was fine but she needed to figure out a way to work since this is causing a big pain in the neck for us. She kinda insinuated that she might be fired for a health issue which I do not agree with. I did not argue or say anything back to her since I did not trust myself to say something that might get me in trouble. My friend has gotten doctor’s notes every time she has had to leave early and has documentation of her appointments. Could they fire her for leaving early or missing work due to a health issue?

    I am aware that this is a toxic job and I have been putting in applications for months (I will be rewriting my resume this weekend according to the advice here) but I have never seen them stoop to this level and it is very concerning. We only have one HR person and she is not good with communication.

    1. fposte*

      If you’re in the U.S., it is legal to fire somebody for health-related absences. There are, however, legal exceptions that your friend should explore, the first being FMLA. If she and the workplace qualify, this would seem to be a shoo-in for intermittent FMLA, and she should talk to her boss and call her neurologist’s office about getting the paperwork filed.

      It is occasionally possible to get absences approved as part of an ADA accommodation, but that’s harder going, and it sounds like your workplace would be a tough sell for that. Nonetheless, your friend might want to look into it.

      It’s also worth her checking the state laws on sick days, etc., because some states have more protections.

      1. MsMarvel8591*

        Unfortunately, she has only been with our office since November, so FMLA is out of the question. She does currently have a case with the Social Security Office for a disability, however the case has been going on for over four years and it does not appear that she will be receiving a response anytime soon. Hopefully her doctor can figure out what is going on soon so she does not lose her job.

        1. Temperance*

          She’s probably not going to win her SS disability claim on that basis. There’s currently a really high demand for disability because it comes with free healthcare and a host of other government benefits. (I’m not judging her, just pointing out that she shouldn’t count on receiving SS disability unless she gets a ton of relevant medical evidence and keeps sending it in, or if she gets worse.)

          I have chronic migraines and see a neurologist regularly as well. I think your friend needs to talk to HR about her issue and her options, and keep working with her doctor. It took me some time, but I found a med combo that works.

        2. Sunshine Brite*

          Her case is likely to be rejected at least twice, especially if she’s currently working. Usually they don’t consider many cases unless a person demonstrates they can’t hold a job due to their disability.

    2. AlaskaKT*

      As a long time sufferer of severe migraines I can sympathize with your friend. I am also unable to take 90% of pain medication (because hey, it’s totally awesome to get a migraine FROM vicodine!). The best thing I’ve ever found for migraines is a TENS machine. It does little electrical pulses that arent at all painful, but it interrupts the pain receptors in the brain. I got mine for $70 on amazon and it has been a life saver! They usually come with instructions for where to place the pads for different kinds of pain, and it’s so small and unobtrusive that I wore mine at work nearly every day (migraines 4-5 days a week).

      Also, just to throw this out there. If she still has her wisdom teeth they should come out asap. My dentist fell under the ‘if they don’t hurt leave them in’ catagory, but I had them removed before I lost my insurance and have had ONE migraine in the year+ since then. Turns out the roots of my wisdom teeth had grown around the nerves in my jaw and chewing/talking was causing migraines. Just a thought. I hope things are figured out for her soon!

  190. Lady Dedlock*

    Advice on getting up the self-esteem to apply to new jobs when you’re feeling totally burnt out and miserable due to your current job?

    I’m realizing that my boss is never going to hire more people to help us deal with our insane workload. My anxiety has been ramping up due to all the pressure at work, and I am just not feeling good about myself or life right now. I need to get out, but I’m having a hard time writing several paragraphs about why someone should want to hire me. I’ve tried looking back at my “praise” folder of emails, but it’s kind of just making me mad that all this going-above-and-beyond is never going to be recognized monetarily.

    1. TL -*

      Write them into your cover letter and feel free to add in “and despite that the fact that I am a baller, my shithead boss won’t even give me a lousy 3% raise”
      Write the cover letter angry and then go back and edit it into nice.

    2. Chicken*

      I have this problem too, of not feeling capable of writing several hundred words about how great I am and why people should totally hire me. The advice I saw here on AAM that is helping me is writing my cover letter as though I am comparing myself to someone really mediocre — so, in my case, I’m remembering an incompetent coworker who was fired a year ago. Some things are not useful, like “I know how to turn on the g-damn spellcheck all by myself,” but some things are, like “I can research independently! Here is the project I helped make a success with virtually no guidance.”

    3. MissGirl*

      Think of it not as bragging but as stating facts about your work history. You don’t say I’m an amazing people person, that’s bragging. You say, I led my team to the lowest record of customer complaints, which is fact. When lacking motivation, focus not on where you are but where you want to be and how you get there.

      Resumes are hard and looking for a job can be rough on your self-esteem. Not to mention it’s change and change can be intimidating. Your mind will put roadblocks to your doing this. But remember nobody loves doing resumes and job-hunting but it’s something you HAVE to do if you want a better life. Once you accept it sucks but that it’s necessary, it’s easier to move forward. The more you do it, the easier it is.

      1. Troutwaxer*

        If you’re really down due to work events might it be useful to hire a resume company to help with your cover letter and resume? They’re probably used to working with burnt-out people from toxic jobs. Find someone who reads here, or has read Allison’s book and you should be good.

  191. Anonest of all*

    Someone in my work killed themself this week.

    Not someone I know, and work is providing all manner of support to anyone at all who needs it, but it’s just so horrible. So sad for the person’s family, friends, colleagues. It doesn’t bear thinking about.

    For those in the UK who might be thinking about ending their own lives, please don’t forget that the Samaritans are open 24-7 and have email and letter support as well as phone and in person (if you’re close to a branch).
    http://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help-you/contact-us

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      That’s awful. I am so glad to hear that your employer is providing necessary support to your colleagues.

      1. Anonest of all*

        Oh I’ve never heard of them, thank you for sharing! I have a friend who lost her stepbrother to suicide a few years ago, I’ll see if she knows about them too.

    3. neverjaunty*

      How terrible. I’m so sorry for you, and for your co-worker who was in such pain.

  192. Barbra*

    Help!!! I have an interview Monday with a federal agency. The hiring manager sent me an email this afternoon asking me to complete a formal application. One of the first questions (seriously, it’s right under my address and am I legal to work in the US) is have I ever been fired or quit after being told I would be fired within the last ten years. The answer is yes but it’s for a job I held for just a few months nine years ago and it’s not on my resume. Do I disclose it? I assume yes.
    Sort of related, do you disclose other short term jobs that are’t on your resume? I’m thinking yes, especially for a federal job where a formal background check will be conducted.
    Any thoughts against disclosure?

    2. Amber Rose*

      Full disclosure with the government is advisable, if you want the job. At best they’ll just toss your application, at worst they’ll call you on it.

    4. Snazzy Hat*

      1) There’s likely a section for additional comments/info — there was one when I applied for a federal job last year — and that’s where you can say when & how long the job was. By the way, five years prior, I had been unjustly fired from a job I held for less than a month, but the feds still brought me in for an interview. It really depends on the job or the nature of the firing for it to make a difference if it’s from nine years ago.

      2) Yes, disclose EVERY freaking job. I actually wrote in to AAM about how to fill out an application when you honestly don’t know the answers; I had two short-term temp jobs where I didn’t remember who my supervisors were and they probably wouldn’t have remembered who I was. The solution was to put down the temp agency’s supervisor’s name and specify that’s who they were. Id est, “Joe Shlub, Supervisor at Teapot Temps” for both jobs. The end result would be that the feds could call Teapot Temps, ask for Job Shlub, and Joe could verify that I worked as a temp through Teapot Temps on assignments at Sculpture Supplies and The Rice Mill. Note: the resume can & should be your marketing document; you may pick and choose. The application needs everything on it.

      2′) In Alison’s book How To Get A Job, she talks about how to disclose being fired or quitting in disgust. The short answer is: tell the truth, try to soften it, and definitely don’t rant about your crappy former employer.

    5. Natalie*

      Have you ever heard the phrase “the cover up is worse than the crime”?

      This particular aspect of your job history may not be a dealbreaker to this agency. The only way to find out is to disclose it and see what happens. But lying will end your candidacy 100% of the time.

  193. JohninCali*

    I work in a small office. My cubicle is positioned in such a way I can hear most of what my coworker Jan says from her office(that and they talk loud) but Jane can not hear me. Jane needs me for help sometimes on technical issues or research although some stuff she just does not want to learn how to do. I also train her on new programs and keep her informed of certain updates in our field being delegated as the knowledge expert. Jane is the type that is the type of personality that complains/rants about everyone and everything if something goes wrong/does not meet their satisfaction both business and personal to everyone. New software program that have few tasks not as user friendly as the previous version becomes the worst most hated software in the world and told to everyone. The problem is I have heard Jane on a few occasions complaining about me to my boss/coworkers/or on personal calls when I am the current target of discontent. The complaints range from frustrating /hard to deal with to why John has not setup/implemented/completed this yet or how come John has not given me full access to the program I am currently ranting about that I hate but already have access to the parts I need. Some of things she is complains about its my first time hearing about it and only find out secondhand. I usually just shrug it off when I can and if our boss comes back to me about a complaint of hers I try to address it. Jan is competent enough in the office once she is trained enough in the software and I often mention her skills to my boss when they ask if anyone in the office beside myself can handle Project XYZ. I do not think I will ever confront her as it would shine a light on the unintentional eavesdropping, give Jane more fuel for the fire and make our work relationship worse, and result in me hearing more complaints/rants. Telling my boss about the complaints, would just come off as two adults bickering like children that my boss does not want to deal with. This had happened in the past between Jan and a former coworker Jim, with each of the them running to the boss every time the other complained about them and frustrating my boss. It just felt unnecessary watching from the sidelines escalating it that much but at the same time my boss should have nipped it early. For now I am just avoiding interaction with her as much as possible and keeping what interaction I do have as civil and helpful as possible(although when she I hear the secondhand complaints or asks when she asks for my help I want to say “why don’t you do it yourself if I am not not doing a good enough job”.) My question is are there any better ways of coping/dealing with this personality type? or should I just continue to avoid/ignore Jane as much as possible?

    1. Beezus*

      I recently started working on a project with someone like that! My strategy is to go over immediately and insert myself into the conversation, and keep the focus on understanding and fixing the problem. My Jane is excitable and fingerpointy and not very even tempered, so I focus on staying very calm and reasonable and steering straight toward solution, while correcting him mildly anytime he says something that is not factual or objective (which is often). I don’t worry about appearing to eavesdrop…I assume that conversations about my work that happen in my hearing are my business, and if he wants privacy for those conversations, it’s on him to choose to have them in a more private place and use a quieter tone of voice. (These conversations are happening in an open office bullpen, where I am either sitting ten yards away, or I am out of the room for the moment and can walk in at any time.)

      Our work relationship is not super friendly, but we are able to be civil to one another and get our work done. I’m fine with not being on wonderful terms with him – if push comes to shove, he’s always going to be the kind of person who is known for complaining to other people about problems he hasn’t tried to solve himself, and he’s helping me develop a reputation for being even tempered and defusing conflict, so I will be okay, even if standing up to him can be a little uncomfortable in the moment.

  194. Lemon Zinger*

    My team uses flex time for when staff work long hours. It’s handled on a case-by-case basis, directly with your supervisor. Yesterday one of my coworkers told me something about an issue she had with flex time, and I’m interested in others’ thoughts.

    Jane overslept one morning last week. She texted, called, and emailed her supervisor as soon as she woke up and apologized profusely. She arrived at work one hour late. That week she was scheduled to work 6 hours of overtime and had been promised 4 hours of flex time in return. After arriving to work late, her supervisor told her it was okay that she was late, but that she forfeited her flex time. Consequently, Jane had to work the overtime with no flex time to compensate, even though she had been counting on that time off.

    Jane is an excellent employee and does not have a history of coming in late; this was really one of those unlucky things. She is salaried. Do you think this is fair?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Wait, I am confused about how coming in late by one hour translates to a loss of 4 hours of flex time. Why not just deduct an hour of flex time?

    2. Relocating*

      It seems like the supervisor reacted in anger. Fair would be forfeiting one hour of flex time in exchange for the tardiness, or working on hour late on the day she arrived late.

    3. The Rat-Catcher*

      No, this is crappy. At most, I could see her being penalized one of her promised four hours (and I wouldn’t even have done that, since she was already working 6-for-4).
      I don’t have any practical suggestions for you to address this, just sympathy. Going back on their word like that based on a one-time thing is going to make it extremely hard for them to keep people in the long term.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        And especially crappy when you consider that overtime pay for hourly employees (not sure if Jane is) is time and a half, so she’s getting really short-changed in the flex time deal.

  195. Relocating*

    Hi all! I’m ready to leave #ToxicJob and I’ve been interviewing by Skype for positions in my dream city. Today the hiring manager for one told me they’d like me to fly out next week for the next round to meet the team, and HR would follow up with me on making that happen. 2 questions:
    1. If I still haven’t heard from HR, when should I follow up with them?
    2. How do you negotiate a travel stipend for this?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      If the interview is supposed to be next week, I think I would probably touch base on Tuesday to check in so that you can plan your travel accordingly.

      I’m not sure what you mean by a travel stipend. If the company is covering the cost of travel, they will usually tell you. So, if travel involves a plane or train ticket, they’ll usually book it on their own account or let you know how the reimbursement process works. If you aren’t sure, it’s reasonable to ask, “Before I book my travel, would you let me know if you will be covering that cost?” or something along those lines. If it’s within driving distance, I don’t believe it’s typical for them to cover the cost of gas, tolls, etc.

      Lots of places do not cover candidate’s cost of travel, and you assume that cost yourself as the cost of conducting an out-of-town job search.

  196. Lynne879*

    Question to my fellow AAM readers: is a bad interviewer, or bad interview questions typically red flag signs of a bad workplace?

    Have you guys ever been in a situation where you got one or two bad questions in an interview but the job & company itself turned out to be fine?

    1. CAA*

      Most of the people who interview job candidates are not professional interviewers, so I think it’s pretty common to get some lame questions, and that doesn’t necessarily mean that the job will be a bad fit. Try to think about the person you’re talking to and how experienced an interviewer she probably is before judging the questions too harshly. Also, how much will you actually interact with the person asking the odd questions?

      I don’t think I ever asked anyone something truly insane (like the nacho question above), but it took me a lot of practice to figure out how to ask the questions that would get me the information I want to know, and there are plenty of questions I’ve asked in the past that I’ve since realized aren’t that helpful.

      1. Colette*

        I agree, one or two odd questions would be fine. An interviewer who was aggressive, demanding, or insulting would not.

  197. millennial falcon*

    Thanks for all your advice a while back regarding my very odd career counselor! I am not going to go back to her, but I still feel I could use some kind of counselor or at least a mentor to help me with my search. How should I go about finding one? And how do I know that that person’s advice is good, once I do?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      If you are a college graduate, check first with your school to see what career counseling resources are available to alumni. I used to work at a university that offered lifelong free career counseling services and phone/Skype appointments were very common for people who no longer lived locally.

  198. Mimmy*

    Grrrrrrrrrrr.

    Is it too much to ask to: 1) get my pay right and 2) send me the info I need to finish your project when you say you will??

    Asked of two separate people/groups.

    Ugh.

  199. Analysis Paralysis*

    Late to the party but hoping for input about withdrawing my candidacy from a job without burning a bridge with that company.

    Background: I was a strong contender for a similar-but-slightly-different Teapot Analyst positions at AcmeTeapots (as AceAnalyst) and SteamingTeapots (as SuperbAnalyst). After my interviews with both companies, I decided I could be happy at either, but if given a choice, the “pros” of the AceAnalyst role are more important to me than “pros” of working in SteamingTeapots’ environment.

    SteamingTeapots stated they wouldn’t be making a decision until this week or maybe next week. As I indicated upthread, earlier this week I received a competitive offer for AceAnalyst role at AcmeTeapots (yay! the role I wanted!). I knew that there wasn’t anything plausible that SteamingTeapots could offer to overcome my preference for the AceAnalyst role, so I didn’t reach out to SteamingTeapots to check on their timeline — I negotiated/accepted the AceAnalyst role at AcmeTeapots.

    So, this week is over and no word from Steaming Teapots. QUESTIONS:
    1) Should I keep quiet, assuming that SteamingTeapots already offered the SuperbAnalyst role to someone else & therefore no need to withdraw my candidacy? Or should I withdraw in case they haven’t made a decision & are still considering me (since I know I will not accept an offer)? I’m inclined to withdraw, but could use perspective.
    2) If I withdraw my candidacy, should I call or email? If email, should I email both the hiring manager & the internal recruiter, or just the internal recruiter?
    3) Also, what specific wording can I use when withdrawing, to keep good vibes flowing and avoid burning a bridge?

    Thanks in advance for any input!

    1. Amber Rose*

      Definitely withdraw! They will probably be cranky if they spend time debating hiring you VS other person if you were never an option, and you don’t know for sure that isn’t happening. An email is likely fine. I have done this before, I think I said something like “Hello [Manager], I’m contacting you to let you know I need to withdraw my candidacy for [position]. Thank you very much for your time and consideration.”

      I don’t think you need to necessarily tell them why, although if you did want to you could mention you’d accepted another offer. Basically the same as if you’d received offers from both at the same time.

      1. Analysis Paralysis*

        Thanks, Amber Rose! I felt like withdrawing was the right thing to do. I’m working on the wording right now.

        I guess I feel a little conflicted because I really liked the environment / people at SteamingTeapots — casual, friendly, and a really good teamwork vibe. I’m still committed to the Acme Teapots because AceAnalyst is the type of work I prefer & Acme Teapots is committed to Teapot Analysis as a distinct profession & has excellent in-house ‘continuing ed’, but Acme Teapots also has rigid office hours & dress code (but otherwise seems like a good fit for me). I need to stop wishing that the AceAnalyst role was available at Steaming Teapots, and I need to stop worrying about hurting someone’s feelings. It’s all business, we’re all professionals. Self-pep talk over!

  200. Dee*

    I have had a role for a fixed term of a few months for a short project- it has had less responsibility and work that i generally do and consequently much less pay (i needed a job!). Now the place i’m employed at has an upcoming project that is similar to past projects i’ve done as a contractor and they appear interested in me staying on to work on this specific project due to my skills and experience.

    I’m interested in staying on but only if i’m put in a project specific role AND paid the market value for the project role (this is significantly more than i’m currently being paid.) How do i approach this when i’m asked? Any help appreciated :)

  201. j-me*

    Does anyone else work in an office that turns into a zoo at around 3 pm every Friday? The team next to our stands up in their cubes, and starts throwing a football around and yelling, and makes the floor shake when they run and jump for the ball. Arrrg.

    1. JulieBulie*

      Wow, they wait until 3pm? That’s awesome. In my office, it all goes downhill after lunch.

  202. Former Cemetery Admin Clerk*

    I was fired a year ago. On Admin Professionals Day. I’m beginning to think that was a sign.

    I don’t actually know what I was fired for. I wasn’t given anything other than my last check.

    I’ve been telling people that I made an error in neglecting to update the property records, which resulted in property being double sold. It was either that, or my social anxiety/depression.

    What do I do? Would it be worth asking about trying to finding out what I got fired for?

    1. Colette*

      I wouldn’t share your theories about why you were fired – there’s no advantage to you to do so, especially since anyone who is checking a reference could call and be told something completely different.

      Be kind to yourself. You’re human and will make mistakes like the rest of us.

  203. S*

    My current employer has a policy where you cannot work for them as a Tech (nurse aide) once you have received your Graduate Nurse status. I have checked around and other hospitals do not do this and it is not a law. It feels like being fired because I graduated. Also, because I don’t know the date of my “Authorization to test”/”Graduate Nurse Status” because it is something the board of nursing issues, I don’t have any idea what day will be my last day of work. No, I am not the only one, others have gone through this as well at this hospital.
    My question, Do I still write a letter of resignation?

    1. Jules the First*

      I’d say not – you’re not resigning, you’re being let go because you no longer meet their requirements. If you want to be absolutely above board with it, you can wait until you get your status (or know the date for sure) and then bring it up with your manager.

  204. Karl*

    I work in a small department consisting of 2 teams (each of which does work that’s broadly related to the other, but differs in several key technical aspects). My team consists of my boss, who I’ll call Beth, two colleagues and me. The four of us get on well, work hard, and achieve a hell of a lot – as such, Beth’s had very few managing challenges over the past couple of years.
    The other team is managed by Jen, and although they also get a lot done to tight timescales, they’re also kind of notorious within the business for being fairly dysfunctional and full of drama. Personally, I think the root cause of this is probably Jen herself, who’s at best a careless manager and at worst downright manipulative.
    Anyway, Jen’s on maternity leave and there’s a power vacuum within her team. The business couldn’t commit to bringing someone in temporarily to manage them because the required technical skills don’t really exist outside the department, and Jen refused to select any of her team members for the role (the obvious choice to me would be Josh, who’s experienced and respected, but Jen’s not a fan of him, and I’ve often witnessed her deliberately blocking development opportunities for him. Mary’s part time, so Jen’s argument was she wouldn’t be around enough to manage the team. And Tony’s less experienced than the other two and sometimes lacks a bit of tact).
    My manager, Beth, was asked to manage the team from a people management point of view, with the understanding that Jen had given the team enough information and guidance to manage their workload between them.
    And, well…it’s chaos. Josh, obviously disappointed at not being given the opportunity to manage the team, has been getting on with his work as normal, but pointedly not getting involved in the team dynamics. Whenever any drama occurs, he’s putting on his headphones and ignoring it, rather than being the voice of reason he normally is (must admit, I can sympathise).
    Mary, who Jen had left “in charge of scheduling”, has been doing none of her usual work at all, instead spending her time adjusting the calendar and checking up on Tony, who she doesn’t seem to trust to get anything done to her standards. She refuses to acknowledge Beth as her manager, and is regularly repeating something we’ve all heard Jen say, which is that the work of my/Beth’s team is really easy and dull and could be done by anyone. Mary has been rearranging her shifts without discussing it with Beth, doing unauthorised overtime in order to claim the time back as holiday, ignoring the company dress code, and going over Beth’s head to her manager (who’s based at a different site) for decisions about day-to-day aspects of the team’s work.
    Meanwhile, Tony’s being lumbered with all of Mary’s work on top of his own, as well as having Mary peer over his shoulder, ask for constant verbal and email updates, asking him to do further work on projects he’s already completed (and which internal customers have confirmed they’re happy with). He’s getting more wound up by the day by Josh’s indifference and being micromanaged by Mary. He’s getting angry and needing to vent about it to me and the rest of my team, which is potentially impacting both his work and ours.

    Any advice for me or my colleagues on how to help out with this situation that’s going on so close to us (or should we just stay well away)?
    And any advice for Beth on how to manage this mess in Jen’s absence?

    1. Colette*

      Why is no one calling Mary in her crap? I mean, you hear her say your team’s work is easy and you say nothing?

      You can start speaking up.

      But also, Beth is not managing this team. She should start. Set expectations & hold them accountable. It’s too bad they aren’t self-sufficient, but ignoring them isn’t going to fix this.

  205. MsChanandlerBong*

    I volunteer from 12-3 on Sundays. The person who volunteers from 3-6 has been late for every single one of her shifts, and she no-showed twice. This is all in the span of about seven weeks. Would I be out of line if I told her she has to start getting there by 3:00? I’m not a supervisor, but the two times she no-showed, I had to stay three hours late and cover the shift. I couldn’t just lock up and leave because we had people using the space. Since her tardiness directly affects me, would it be okay to say something? Even when she calls and says she’s going to be late, she doesn’t call until 2:59, which means I have no notice. It’s getting to the point where I am tempted to start doing our closing procedures at 2:45 in case she doesn’t show up (empty the coffee pot, shut off the coffee machine, shut down the computers, etc.). If she does show up, I can always turn everything back on, but if she no-shows without calling, then I won’t be stuck there for an extra half an hour while I do everything.

    1. Cruciatus*

      I would talk to whoever is in charge of the volunteers. It’s not OK to assume you could stay extra hours and they need to have another solution if she no shows or is late. I think they should talk with her. If they won’t/don’t then you can, but you’re a volunteer, not a hostage and they should treat you as such!

    2. S*

      start shutting down at 245 every day until she starts showing up on time, if she shows up at 3 and asks for an explanation, explain you have an appointment and didn’t want to chance everything getting ruined so you took the responsible route. Then walk out calmly with a smile. If she does not ask for an explanation, don’t say anything at all, leave with a smile. One of two things will happen, she will start showing up on time, or she will always have to turn everything back on and restart everything when she does arrive. Either way, you took the responsible route. You volunteered to help, not get stomped on. Good luck, you can do it.

    3. Job Hunt Blues*

      I would start by talking directly with her about it, and give her the benefit of the doubt. You don’t know what circumstances outside of work are contributing to this. With that in mind, phrase it in terms of the way it affects you and see if there’s a possible solution. Maybe she could text you when she’s going to be late or unable to show up. Maybe she needs help with something (transportation, child care, time management strategies) and you could be a resource – suggest solutions for whatever is making her late. You never know.

      If that conversation isn’t productive, I would then go to the supervisor. But give her a chance to speak for herself first.

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        No to this. It’s not your responsibility to deal with, and your volunteer coordinator needs to know.

        1. Job Hunt Blues*

          No, it’s not your responsibility. Of course you don’t have to talk to the person if you’re not comfortable with it.

          I say this from the perspective of many years of experience. People appreciate it when you talk to them directly. It helps you to get along with your co-workers.

          1. Colette*

            The problem is that she knows she’s late, and the reason doesn’t matter. It’s hers to handle. If it’s something she can’t handle (e.g. Childcare issues mean she’s always going to be ten minutes late) she can ask for accommodations, or she can change shifts, or she can quit.

            And looping in the supervisor means that if there’s a known issue, they can come up with a better plan, and it also means that the supervisor won’t give the late volunteer a good reference when she’s not showing up.

  206. S*

    My current employer has a policy where you cannot work for them as a Tech (nurse aide) once you have received your Graduate Nurse status. I have checked around and other hospitals do not do this and it is not a law. It feels like being fired because I graduated. Also, because I don’t know the date of my “Authorization to test”/”Graduate Nurse Status” because it is something the board of nursing issues, I don’t have any idea what day will be my last day of work. No, I am not the only one, others have gone through this as well at this hospital. Any advice on how to handle still working there until my “firedate” without feeling spit upon? My question, Do I still write a letter of resignation?

    1. Colette*

      I wouldn’t resign – if they want you to leave, they can fire you and pay unemployment. That’s a ridiculous policy.

    2. Blossom*

      I would write a letter – are you asking for thoughts on how to word it? I would check the actual policy language and mirror it.

      But this is actually not a ridiculous policy – there are real reasons that many healthcare organizations and state Boards of Nursing will not permit people to work at a scope that is lower than that for which they are qualified – it protects the organization, but also you and your patients! It may be that this particular policy is badly written or operationalized (hence it feels like you are being punished and I’m sorry about that), but the rationale is fairly well recognized as appropriate.

      Do not be discouraged – you are one step closer to a huge world of opportunities as a nurse! And you may have just found the first place you *don’t* want to work… so there that!

      Also I would NOT let them fire you. In healthcare, that can be a huge red flag. See above in today’s open thread. for a discussion about whether to disclose being fired and why. Better to avoid that – it follows you for a long time. Furthermore, as a nurse, I think we are held to certain standards – we don’t abandon our patients (meaning we give appropriate notice, work when scheduled etc) and we don’t play chicken with our jobs. I would never hire a nurse who had been fired because they wanted to play hardball on a policy that related to safety and/or risk management.

        1. Blossom*

          There are a few reasons (and while I don’t know that I personally endorse them, I understand them). One is that regardless of your role (tech), you are held to the standard for someone of your education and/or licensure. So if an RN working as a tech makes a decision that is reasonable for a tech, but it results in a bad outcome, they would be held to the standard of a nurse legally. And the organization won’t have prepared that RN to be an RN in the organization (and won’t know if they are competent to be an RN, have RN orientation etc.). These mismatches do result in threats to patient safety. Roles and responsibilities are very important in healthcare – sometimes people will assume responsibilities of someone “below” them but they won’t be oriented to that role. An example is if I, as a doctor (let’s pretend), decide to pull a tray off the food cart for my hungry patient. Not my job, seems easy, but what I don’t know is how do the professionals in tray distribution know who can have a tray, what tray they can have, or how they verify that there have been no last minute changes to their diet orders. So our policies and procedures can seem strange, but in most cases the intent is reasonable. It’s imperative to know your role, your responsibilities, and be sanctioned fully by the organization to do that role. I never underestimate the specialization of people in healthcare. Another example is cleaning things properly – it’s not easy to do, I don’t assume that I am qualified, consequences can be dire if done wrong!

          In this other case, the issue is probably more the potential that she’d be held to a standard of care that doesn’t align with her role. Or that she (or others) would be tempted to expand her responsibilities to that of a nurse without formalization of that change. That’s another slippery slope and it’s common. “Oh, come on, you’re a nurse too, just turn off that IV pump”. Yes people shouldn’t do this, but they do (it’s very tempting in a busy environment, and one with a lot of professional trust and team work), it’s human nature and the policies are designed to prevent this from being a possibility. And again, that’s about the patients.

          Lastly, it’s actually sometimes against labor agreements to pay a nurse (probably not a graduate but someone with an active license) as a technician.

          Hope that helped. I don’t mean to imply that if I was CEO I would want this policy or enforce it in this way, but I do understand the rationale. Finding the actual policy and reading it will help – perhaps it is clearer or less punitive than it seems or it’s being portrayed by HR.

  207. Cobblestone*

    Any dialogue tips on how to ask a coworker how she’s doing when she returns to work after she’s been on personal leave? I don’t know the circumstances (and I shouldn’t – Boss made that clear to us), so I don’t want to pry, but want to be supportive as well if she needs it. How do I greet her and talk to her and offer help but also respect her privacy?

    I’m also a bit worried about Nosy Coworker who already tried to ask Boss her circumstances, but was rightly shut down. Any further tips on how to circumvent Nosy’s inevitable, “How are you???” although I do think my coworker can fend for herself.

    1. Nanc*

      “Welcome back! Let me know if you have any questions about what’s been going on or need any help getting up to speed on A B and C.”

      Alternatively, you could send an email along the same lines and just reiterate what projects you can help her with with as she gets resettled.

    2. Temperance*

      Be welcoming. Don’t ask, don’t be overly supportive, just be happy to see her.

  208. Cara*

    Anyone else comment on Corporette occasionally? Geez, that hive can be so mean and snarky.

    I knew I should have just stick with AAM for group advice.

    I haven’t had girls be that mean to me since junior high, sh-t.

    I’ll save my work question for another week, they bummed me out too much. So…thanks AAMers for being such a great group.

      1. Cara*

        Thanks. I know some commentators can be mean, is that why they call themselves the hive? Haha.

        I cried a little bit, but why am I letting some anonymous mean girls get to me?

        There were mostly helpful comments, but for a group of intellenget, hard working, overachieving women it is disheartening to get comments along the lines of “you sound like a PITA” or “that was stupid”. I didn’t think my question warranted those responses (again, most were thoughtful and helpful) but having some junior associate lawyer tell me I’m a whiny bitch…ouch.

        I’ll just be more careful next time. Either that or just stick to some fashion question.

        1. Job Hunt Blues*

          And remember, that attitude is self-limiting as well. It’s been my observation that people who are quick to judge and belittle others often apply the same negativity to themselves in some form. And they shrink their professional network by limiting it to people who can put up with them.

        2. neverjaunty*

          Junior associate lawyer there probably hates her career and is spitting venom because it makes her feel a tiny bit better about the enormous loans that keep her chained to her job.

  209. Newsie*

    I just have to express 2.5 good stories:

    1. I took a chance on taking a counteroffer – I know Alison says don’t, issues don’t change, but the X Factor at my office was a new boss. I jumped, because the counteroffer was that good (20% raise, full title change, work to develop new responsibilities). And – already stuff is moving for me to get the experience I’ve been asking three years for. Yay! Thanks Alison!
    1a. Using Alison’s advice, I was able to help a colleague with her resume and make it so much more active and selling. Yay! Thanks Alison!

    2. More to toot my own horn: a junior staffer was coming onto our shift to get some experience. I started letting him shadow, then pushed him to start making some teapots on his own. When I told the senior that I was doing this, she freaked out, and suggested everyone at his level would want to try making teapots, but they weren’t ready. I told her that I didn’t want to punish him for the rest of his colleagues’ inexperience, and I would be careful not to overextend him. (I did think, well, if you manage those who aren’t ready by telling them they’re not ready and why, maybe it can be a productive conversation… but anyway)
    By the end of the week – he was making the same number of teapots that the rest of us do a night – simple teapots, mind, but very well made ones. Yay! And he expressed gratitude, which is so easy but so rarely done, so yay x 2!

  210. Overeducated*

    I just got back from a week of training and it was very life affirming – getting back to the core and mission of what my organization does when we often get ground down by bureaucracy and time constraints in the day to day. I feel like I have great, peer tested ideas and new perspective on how to approach some projects, but I am also apprehensive that they’ll get crushed by our hierarchical structure (it takes so long to get even baby steps approved up the chain that I can’t DO much). So…wish me luck that my spirit doesn’t die by noon Monday.

    Also, my husband has a finalist interview next week. I don’t know whether to hope for an offer or not – it’s his only interview right now in a tight field, and it would hold him through for a year until my term ends and we can move again, but the commute would be really awful. Like an hour and 40 minutes one way without traffic…through two major metro areas, so there will be traffic. Wish him luck, I guess, but I am not sure if that means this offer, or something better coming along. (I think he could have found something much closer to home if he had looked into private sector work, but…he didn’t, and he only has 3 more months on his contract, so maybe the commute is his choice. I dunno.)

  211. Job Hunt Blues*

    I’m chronically under employed. I’m a gender misfit. I’ve always been more like the opposite gender in a lot of ways. I come from a conservative family and was only allowed to study gender typical subjects in school. Mostly stuff I’m neither interested in nor good at. After that, I dealt with a lot of negative stuff from my family that limited my career options. I won’t go into it here, but it was bad and I had to cut off contact with them.

    For a long time, I’ve been trying to find a job where I can be myself and do things I enjoy and that I’m good at. But I keep being offered jobs I’m not good at and then, when I say yes, not doing well (duh). Or jobs that are presented as one thing but turn out to be another. I have a lot of valuable skills, but it seems like no one wants to hire me to use them.

    I just had a false start. I accepted a job offer and then found out the job wasn’t what I had thought. So I had to turn it down. Long story, but it was in my bezt interest in the long run.

    I have a bunch of odd jobs to fall back on, but they all involve driving and now I’m having car trouble. I have some physical limitations and I really need a car. It’s going to be really hard to pay my bills without those jobs, but I can’t afford car repairs either.

    So I need to frantically network this weekend and hope to find something, The good news is that I live in a big city with a booming economy and tons of job openings. It is a somewhat conservative city, but there are all kinds of people here. I’m a pretty likeable person if I do say so myself, haha. I make a good impression in person. People just get the wrong impression about me in certain ways . . . .

    Anyway, I’m trying to stay positive and hoping I somehow pull through and turn this whole situation around.

    Cheers to being yourself! Even when it means your utilities get shut off. I know I’m not the only one going through this. I think the silver lining is that these battles are good ones to fight.

    1. Lolly Scrambler*

      Hope you find something that is a great fit all round (including for your gender identity) soon Job Hunt Blues!

  212. Anxa*

    Do any educators (college level) have any tips on avoiding frustration and burn out while working with students without literacy skills? Most of my students can recognize words and phrases, but many can’t find a more complex sentence. More cannot paraphrase and many lack interest in conversations, preferring instead and slowed down lecture where they record and copy me verbatim. I actually think that method may help some of my students, but I cannot seem to convince them to put down the pencil for them for a quick context review. I use a lot of infection, gestures, and other cues to try to help organize what I’m saying, but I still want to throw my hands in the air sometimes.

    I am also having a hard time working around limitations in understanding hierarchies, categories, sequences, cause-and-effect and other principles of logic. Parts of speech are also frequently misunderstood.

    I tutor science, but the math and verbal skills are just really, really under where they need to be. To be honest, I don’t know how they are placing into these classes. I guess because it’s community college, there really aren’t that many bars to clear, but at least English and math require placement tests. I am kind of horrified by my institutions curriculum overall, though. I’ve mocked up a few alternatives for fun, but it’s just a fantasy.

    1. PikaBu*

      I experienced this when I first taught a bridging course in chemistry at a university – only the issue was basic maths skills, particularly basic algebra (rearranging a dilution equation).
      I ended up spending time building in mini tutorials to teach those skills in my classes – I did end up teaching more maths than chemistry for some topics but at least they were developing – which is the important part.
      The problem was also that the bridging maths course was taught AFTER the chemistry course when it made more sense to do it first. I talked to the academic who taught maths and he was on board with having maths anyway, and together we made a case to switch them around.
      If what you describe is happening then seeing progress in their skills, rather than being frustrated at skills they still lack is more important at this point. They might not be at the level you expect/desire but that happens sometimes. I usually rant about core high school curriculum and how it ruins students :D but I am not in a position to do anything about that (although that might change soon – new job).

  213. Impossible Situation*

    My boss’ wife was diagnosed with cancer almost three years ago. She has recently taken a very bad turn for the worse and my boss has been out of the office this past week. We have absolutely no emergency plan in place for work flow, projects, etc. I have no idea when he might be coming back. I called a meeting with the Associate and Assistant VPs and said we need a plan for all of the work that was getting dropped, deadlines that were not being met, etc. I was asked by them to provide a list of what needed to be done for current projects/meetings. The very first thing I mentioned that I needed, they couldn’t help with because our boss micromanages everything and we literally know almost nothing about what he is working on. As a result, while his wife is struggling so hard with her health we are struggling to keep everything in our highly visible department moving forward. I know he has to know that too and that it is adding to his already high stress level.

    I haven’t talked to my boss at all this week while he’s been out and I’m stuck in the middle as people are asking me for information that I don’t have and I don’t know how much information I can give out about what is going on in his personal life. I have no idea when he is going to be back in the office, how to keep projects moving forward when we have no information, etc. I’m sure it appears to others that we are dropping balls all over the place and he won’t communicate with me. I’m not sure I am even on his radar even though I am his EA and I really do need to know where he is and what he’s doing so I can cancel meetings if needed. I mean, am I supposed to cancel meetings, does he want to call in instead? I literally have no idea as he has emailed those involved with the meetings, but not really me.

    There is literally no one who has his knowledge and could step in if he decides to take a leave of absence (which his wife wants, but I don’t think he’ll do). It’s truly an impossible situation right now.

    1. Nathaniel*

      Wow, that is a sticky situation. I would play it cool. Don’t take action you would not take normally unless explicitly asked to do so. Your meeting with the VPS let them know things are in flux. You must be ready to move on their resolution and, above all, don’t panic, per the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy!

  214. Nathaniel*

    Here is one I need help with:

    I have been through several interviews and I have sent a thank you letter to both interviewers styled after a fashion that has been discussed here.

    Now, we are in the waiting game.

    However, I came across an article that I think it relevant to the position and to the organization.

    Would it be too needy to send it and say something along the lines of “Dear Peanut Butter and Jelly (cc’ed), I was just reading this article and wanted to forward it your way as an addendum to our discussions about position x. No response needed here – I think it is a good article to draw upon in multiple contexts.”

    1. Nathaniel*

      Yes I think that is too needy… you followed up once, enough is enough. Save the article for when they reject you (and then you look like you can take a punch and still be productive) or they accept you (and then you look like you are ready to go on day one). They expect you to have good resources and cards to play. What they do not expect is to keep emailing them before there is a relationship to develop.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      It’s too needy and a bit hard to understand – it’s unclear whether you are saying “I read this article, thought it would be relevant to me if I did this job, and wanted to announce that to you” or “I think you should read this as you probably don’t know what’s going on in your own industry” or “I think you should read this and discuss it with me”. You don’t say who you think should be drawing on it. I’m sorry to hone in on semantics but the lack of clarity isn’t ideal. Honestly, I’d leave it.

    3. Chaordic One*

      I don’t think it would be needy, but there is a chance that it might be seen as either irrelevant or possibly presumptuous on your part. In any case, I wouldn’t send it.

      If you get another interview or an actual job offer at that particular organization then you can bring it up. If not, then let it go.

      It might be relevant to future interviews, so don’t forget all about it. You are correct in noting that they do not want to be receiving a lot of emails from job applicants.

  215. Vegas Native*

    Hi everyone!

    I’ve been reading AAM for forever but I’ve never commented. I just recently got a job (partially because I asked Allison’s magic question in the interview) at the corporate office of a local and rapidly growing fast-casual restaurant chain. The position is a “slash” position (office manage/executive assistant/whatever else needs done).
    Does anyone work in the corporate office of a restaurant chain? Do you have any advice/resources/must read books? Does anyone else have any good reads or resources on event planning, corporate structure, or the restaurant industry?

  216. CC*

    I typically miss the open thread, and participation opportunity in all posts, because I don’t have internet at work – I don’t even really have a desk or a computer, either. (I got a work email about a year and a half after I started at the current job, and I use somebody else’s computer to check it via webmail.) Staying up after work for this.

    I’ve been job-hunting since my layoff over 3 years ago. I work in a specialized field, and I consider it a good month if I have more than one job posting in that field that it’s plausible for me to apply for. A few weeks ago was the first time in about 3 years that I got a phone screen for a posted job which I had applied to. They said they were moving quickly because they were replacing somebody who had just given notice and would let me know one way or the other by the end of the week, which was now two weeks ago. So I guess that’s a no. Oh, and they asked me: because I’ve been so long out of the industry, how low of a salary I’d be willing to take. I don’t think I want to work for this company anymore, although frankly, if they offered me a junior job (I’m not a junior, but the job I applied for was) for junior pay (which would still be more than current job pays), I’d still take it because it would be something in the field. I’d also start job hunting again after a year, because I’m not a junior engineer anymore. And they probably realize this and thus wouldn’t want to hire me for a junior job, although they also asked if I was applying for junior jobs, which I have been but who probably also don’t want to hire somebody overqualified for those positions, then asked if I would take an operator job were one offered, which is a markedly different skillset from engineering.

    I commented in the recent post about how to fix your resume and cover letter, but uselessly late for any kind of discussion. Clearly there’s something wrong with my application materials. I’ve improved them massively based on the advice I’ve read here over the past 3 years, but they’re still not getting me anywhere, at least not where there are other resumes in the pile. The only interest I’ve had on this job hunt is from the same situations as hired me for my past two engineering jobs: I sent a cold application and there was no pile of resumes because there was no job posting, but there was a need at that time and for the things on my resume. Unfortunately the only interest I’ve had on this job hunt is from two companies who can’t afford to hire right now but have said they wish they could. Even the current underemployment wasn’t from an application, it was a temp agency placement and they hired me on.

    I’m not even sure how well I interview, although I have a high percentage of getting jobs I interview for, which is good because I hardly ever get interviews. The reason I’m not sure is because I found out in casual conversation at my last engineering job that another person, hired at the same time I was, had a 4-month probation while I had a 6-month probation. Which says to me they had more doubts about me than about the other guy, given that I doubt they changed a policy in the mere days between our hire dates. And yet I consistently get excellent performance reviews and raises and bonuses… once they see me working. Even in the current underemployment; I went from temp straight to shift supervisor as soon as the agency had enough hours on that contract, and I’ve had high (percentage) raises and bonuses.

    Alison mentioned probably not doing another resume and cover letter review thing any time soon, and while it would probably be helpful, and it might help me get some interviews, I’m not sure whether or not that “might” would be worth paying multiple weeks of groceries for, which is why I haven’t tried to buy one previously. Why yes, I am in a financial situation where I weigh optional expenditures based on how long I could eat using that money. And it’s not as clear cut an investment as the Sam Vimes boots theory of economic injustice.

    1. Colette*

      I’m not sure it’s how you’re presenting your resume so much as it’s a small market and you’ve been out of it for a while. Have you tried reaching out to contacts and Adkin them how you can make yourself mire competitive?

      Are there ways you can keep you skills up to date?

      1. CC*

        One a month for three years is still a few dozen applications, and no interviews yet. None when I was freshly out of work, either.

        Keeping my skills up to date is difficult. I can’t afford the fee for courses, I can’t afford to take the day off to attend the courses, and I don’t have enough contacts to even start my own consulting thing to do so via work experience. (The lack of contacts is a real issue for me. I need to consciously start building myself a network. But I can’t go to industry events because they’re held “after work” aka weekday evenings, and since I work evening shift, that means I’d have to take the entire day off work.) I’ve done an EdX course and I’ve been reading HBR but neither of those is in my field technical.

        I’ve asked a former supervisor and a former senior colleague and while they both had some comments on my resume, which I’ve implemented, they also said that it’s a tough market right now.

    2. MissGirl*

      It may not be your resume or your skills; it may be your chosen field. You say it’s a good month if you find one listing. It’s time to start looking outside your chosen field if you want good employment. Look at your skills and see how they can translate into other industries. Consider your raw talents and how they can be developed differently. I had to do this a few years ago when I recognized my industry was shrinking and I was tired of a role with no future.

    3. Book Lover*

      I’m sorry. This sounds really frustrating and depressing. I am not sure it is you that is the problem, though. It sounds as though there are few listings but you do get interviews and you do get hired. It sounds like there may just not be a lot of opportunity in your field or your area?

      1. CC*

        My field is small but should be growing. It is, however, affected by slowdowns as places hold off on upgrades during those times. (I deal with environmental protection improvements to infrastructure-scale things; the sort of thing most people don’t think about but use every day.)

        A while back I did a survey of where the companies who specialized in my wider field were located, and I’m already in one of the big cities where they cluster. The only bigger cluster in my country is in a city I really don’t want to live in.

      1. CC*

        I can’t afford to give up…

        One of the things that helps me keep my resolve is somebody who works at current place of underemployment. He advised me to give up trying to get back into the type of job I went to school for and really enjoy, and accept my current situation as my reality.

        OH HELL NO.

        Quite a few of the people I work with are decent, but that guy. You have no idea how much I want to wave good bye to that guy on my last day, then never see him again.

  217. Workaholic*

    Email. Does anybody have suggestions on managing the volume? I Guess this is more organizational than lessening the volume. I get hundreds a day, i have filters sending things i really don’t need to look at to the deleted file the moment they arrive. But if it’s something i want to review again later, or I’ve read it but something new and urgent came up before i could delete it, etc then it accumulates and never goes away. I emailed a co-worker the other day and walked over to discuss the issue and she had *3* emails in her inbox. I’ve been trying to dedicate 30 minutes a day to weed through old items but there’s just so much email clutter, and so much work to do that i seldom have time (I’ve averaged 220 hours of OT/yr for the past 3 years – one as a temp).
    Former employers either never or very seldom used email (or my position didn’t require it). And with all my education and experience – email management wasn’t a thing. I’m high performance, high quality, in my work. But embarrassed by my out of control inbox.
    Suggestions?

    1. Colette*

      Do you not have time to review thing later or are you using them?

      I’ve set up outlook so that messages stay unread until I mark them read, and then I keep things I’m not done with as unread. But I always have tons of stuff in my inbox.

      1. Workaholic*

        Some things are policy/don’t delete – i have set up a box for those but need to review for current relevance and move or delete. the rest – it’s a jumble of things i wanted to read but no effect on my actual job, things i completed but got buried before i could delete them, and things i actually needed/wanted to do but low priority. It’s a combination of no time plus no clue of an efficient organization strategy.

        1. Colette*

          Some people set up mailboxes for stuff they need to do – e.g. “Deal with this week”, “when time permits”, etc. Others clean out the box each month and move everything into a folder for the month – e.g. “April 2017”.

          Personally, I don’t see having a bunch of messages in your inbox as a problem unless it means stuff is slipping.

    2. Jules the First*

      Carson Tate has a webinar that she does about managing your inbox – if you’re truly desperate, she also has an in-person bootcamp. In one of my jobs I was getting upwards of 400 messages a day, and the tools she shared in her webinar were invaluable in staying on top of it.

  218. Girl, Wants Career.*

    So, regular at work (older guy, always given me the creeps – he’s lurked at various workplaces I’ve been at since I was about 15), decided to start throwing the creepiness my way recently. As in, “hello gorgeous,” and when I’ve asked him to stop, it’s a chuckle and “oh can’t stop a man saying the truth!” Or, “Aren’t you hot in that?” “What?” “Well, you’re already hot…” and a lewd wink.
    The last two days, I’ve ignored him (and he’s hovered around my register while I studiously looked at my work until he left, and made a point to serve other customers), but I know there’ll be a point where I can’t because he’ll buy something. I mentioned it to my manager today, and her response was “oh, you’re an attractive girl, this won’t be the last time it happens, just got to expect it I suppose”.
    I don’t want to expect it. It’s unpleasant, and mars my otherwise good workday. Seeing as the manager doesn’t really see the issue (because he’s a paying customer), what do y’all suggest for getting rid of him? It’s a small business, and she’s also the owner, so I can’t go to anyone above her. I’ve been told to mention a boyfriend. Peeves me that one has to mention a boyfriend to make creeps move on… anyway, any advice?

    1. Colette*

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.

      Other people might have better ideas, but I’d suggest starting by not being friendly with him, ever. Be polite but … unengaged and entirely focused on business. If he’s not buying something, you can’t see or hear him. Don’t laugh, smile, or otherwise react (except, if necessary, to coldly tell him to stop.)

      So he says “hello gorgeous”, and you say nothing (if you can get away with it) or “hello” (coldly) or “no one by that name works here”.

      1. Girl, Wants Career.*

        I think that’s part of the problem – I’m generally trying to be friendly to customers (makes my day go faster), but I’m being paid to do it. People of the creep variety tend not to realise we’re being paid to be nice, or at the very least don’t care.
        My mother is of the view I should rather loudly tell him where to go (using colourful language), but I also need this job. Am poor.
        Thank you for the advice, though! I love the “no one by that name works here” – definitely going to try it if he’s still persisting.

    2. Rebecca*

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, too. Mr. Creep is taking advantage of the situation because you are customer service and he feels like he can say whatever he pleases, and your manager/the owner won’t talk to him. I agree Colette, be nothing but business like and simply don’t engage with him if he strays off the path.

      If he persists, starts to follow you outside of the store, or shows any other type of behavior, you could reach out to your local law enforcement agency to see what your options are. You should not have to put up with this!

      1. Girl, Wants Career.*

        Thanks, Rebecca. Is it too much to put a sign on my forehead saying “I’m being paid to be nice to you” or similar (ha!)?
        I have a friend who’s a cop, and he mentioned that the only way they can get involved is if it gets physical. I’m looking for other jobs (have been for a while before this, so it’s not why I’m doing it; I want to get back into my industry if possible, and escaping creeps is an added bonus), so hopefully I’ll be long gone soon and he’ll be a distant memory.

        1. Rebecca*

          Creeper Man knows you are being paid to be nice to customers, that’s why he’s taking advantage. Not just with you, but apparently with other young women in town, and either no one is telling him or he’s ignoring the fact that his actions are inappropriate. I guess in a perfect world, everyone would get together, tell him to knock it off and act like a normal human being, and then shun him when he keeps acting like a creep.

          Good luck getting another job!

    3. Book Lover*

      I don’t want to over react, but that sounds like stalking as he has gone to more than one workplace over years. I would probably give the local police a call. I don’t think they will actively do anything right now but they may have some safety or other recommendations for you.

      1. Girl, Wants Career.*

        Oh – can absolutely see how my phrasing gives that impression! To clarify, this guy basically haunts every single shop in town on a daily basis (literally. I’d say most of the town would know who he is), and I know him from seeing him lurk around other coworkers. He’s only started doing it to me recently but I’ve seen him do the creeping to countless other coworkers, so I really don’t want it to linger. (Plus, we’ve recently employed a young girl, and I also want to make sure he doesn’t suddenly turn his attentions to her, because he’s that disgusting I’m sure he would.)
        I did, however, speak to a cop friend regarding something similar a while ago, and unfortunately he basically said there’s not much they can do unless they’re touching me. That, as far as I’m concerned, won’t happen as I won’t leave the safety of my counter while he lurks.

        But, seriously. Creeps. Knock it off.

  219. Workaholic*

    If he’s hovering: can you tell him no loitering? If there are other customers it makes sense but he might ignore it otherwise. I used to work in fast food and we got this too, but i think we all just put up with it. Informing him it’s sexual harassment would probably upset him in a negative way, and if your boss isn’t backing you up? Is it possible to have somebody else step in and cover you when he shows up so you can avoid dealing with him?

    1. Girl, Wants Career.*

      Not really; he comes in first thing in the morning when he knows whoever’s on is going to be on alone. We only get lunch cover. Most of the time I try to ignore it, but I think I’m just on a bit of an edge as I’ve seen him get really weird to other co-workers (one ended up having to flee whenever he came in the store, which was during my teenage years), and while the staff at that store banned him, I think my manager assumes he’s harmless and would rather get his sporadic money.

        1. Girl, Wants Career.*

          That would be excellent. I may have to ask our accountant to make a side visit…

    2. Girl, Wants Career.*

      Also adding to this, I think I got ‘spoiled’ in the last few years – freelancing, and working in an all-female office, meant I wasn’t as readily exposed to it. Thinking back to the last 60+ year old creep I dealt with, I’m pretty sure my response was hearty laughter and “oh mate, could you be more gross, don’t ever speak to me that way again”. (We had a manager then who was more than happy to ban creeps, and this one received a hearty ban after revealing to a coworker younger than me – and I was 20 at the time – that he used to sit outside her house and watch her shower. Also pretty sure there were phone calls to police, and I’ve never seen him around the place since.)

  220. GirlwithaPearl*

    I’ve been in conversation for months about a new role. Two weeks ago I verbally accepted the offer (the funding came through officially). One week ago I spoke to the chief counsel for an hour and negotiated all the details (salary benefits start date etc) and am now waiting for the actual offer letter.

    This org is notoriously slow — But ideally I would give notice by May 15.

    I should follow up by Tuesday, right?

    1. Nathaniel*

      I would email the chief counsel and say:

      “Thanks for taking the time to work out the details for my role as xxxy. Let’s set up a time to talk so that we can work out the timeline from here.”

  221. Nancy B*

    I’m not sure if I should post this here or on the Weekend Free-for-All. It’s kind of work related.
    Did anyone hear Planet Money yesterday entitled “Speed Dating for Economists”? You must listen. I’ll put the link in a reply. I can’t decide if this is a good way to interview for jobs or not.

  222. Anonyby*

    Okay, I’m rather late on this, but…

    Any tips for dealing with work stress? I feel like I’m drowning here. I typically have about 1 1/4 FT jobs’ worth of work to do in 1 FT week (spread over 6 days instead of the normal 5, which means I don’t even get the normal recovery time to destress), but the past couple of weeks it’s been more like 2.5 FT jobs’ worth of work. Balls are dropping (which stresses me out), I have people calling my work phone or sending emails wanting stuff NOWNOWNOW when I’m not even in the office, so it’s a huge deluge when I finally get in and see them (and for many of them they KNOW I’m not in the office at that time!). I’m trying to reach out for help in managing things, but get crickets. And even when I tell them I’m not getting to things because of time, I still get more stuff piled on!

    1. Anna Held*

      You have my sympathy! This sounds awful. I would try to carve out some time to document, though. Make it clear — in writing — that you cannot possibly do all that is being asked, the balls dropped, etc. Ask repeatedly for advice on how to handle this workload and what should be prioritized, because it’s simply not all getting done. Give specifics on what you need and what you’d like to hand off.

      Also, check with your job description, company handbook, state laws, etc. — if you are able to ignore stuff on weekends, do so! Turn off your phone and make it Not Your Problem. Spend that time job hunting, because this is ridiculous. Check your PTO while you’re at it, and use it. You need to take care of yourself.

      1. Anonyby*

        My hours are wonky, but I’m sticking to them. (My “weekend” is Friday thanks to the way my schedule’s set up). And no formal job description here. And I’ve got PTO scheduled, and I’m counting down the days!

        Part of it’s crazy because I’m covering for a FT job that’s been vacant, and the replacement was being trained at another office with someone who’s really good at it. And the more technically parts of that role are things I’ve never been trained in, and so I was having to fly by the seat of my pants to get some of that done. (Note to managers: it’s never a good idea to onboard a new team when you don’t have the admin whose job it is to onboard them. Especially when said new team is composed of individuals who are tech-challenged and this is a tech-heavy company, and thus require a TON of hand-holding.)

        But others… Yeah. Changing one task so that it’s LESS efficient and takes forever? Not good.

        1. Chaordic One*

          Outside of work, please be good to yourself and try to give yourself time for self care. I know that can be heard because of family obligations and because you’re probably so exhausted from work that when you do get home you just want to crash in front of the TV. Make sure you get enough sleep, some exercise, and that you eat well. (When I was in a similar situation, the last one was hard for me because after work my stomach would be in knots and it would take me a couple of hours after I got home before I could comfortably eat.)

          Then, follow Anna Held’s advice about job hunting. Like you, when I told my supervisors I needed help, I got crickets and more things piled on. I had started a job search, but ended up being fired before I had found another job, although to be honest, I was so exhausted from work that I probably did not put as much effort into it as I should have. I kind of wonder if maybe they were trying to get rid of me. In retrospect I now wish that I had quit before I was fired.

  223. Anon for current purposes*

    How does one deal with graduate Thesis burnout?

    After repeated fire alarms over the last two weeks, combined with my own mental health emergencies practically every day (to the point that friends had to talk me off the ledge), I just can’t even anymore. And I got ’till June to finish this up, and I still gotta run the computer model. (Would have REALLY wanted to run it earlier were it not for the constant fire alarms.) I’m out. Kaput.

    How do I bring my energy back up to a point where I can at least not fall behind?

    1. stardust*

      So sorry you’re dealing with this. I’m in the middle of my own breakdowns. If your mental health emergencies aren’t work related, you should really consider getting to the root of those. It seems they’re exacerbated at the very least by work, and if you’re not already seeing a therapist, you should definitely do this.

      If you can’t, here’s what I do —
      I’ve started to take up other hobbies to help. I started knitting (very easy) and knit my anxiety into a long weave of knit and purl stitches. It’s not everything, but it makes me feel like I’m good at something. it’s good for my self esteem.

      I’ve also taken up dance once or twice a week. It’s painful as shit but lots of fun.

      There’s an app called Headspace that i’d recommend that teaches you breathing exercises (underrated).

      Are you up on your vitamins? That makes ALL the difference — D, especially, if you are darker skinned. Do you have thyroid issues? Are you getting enough sun?

      This will not resolve your problems, but these are ways to get back into the energy game and fight your mental health anxieties. Good luck, let me knwo if you want to talk more.

  224. Nathaniel*

    Write in 30 minute bursts. It doesn’t have to be perfect. Get up for 30 minutes and so something else. Then do it over a again. Aim for 1 to 2 hours of pure writing a day. Structure will start to develop. At times, you’ll be inspired to output more time and volume, but that doesn’t mean you can neglect your 30 minute windows (with a timer, preferably). Make sure to take care of yourself in the meantime.

    I’m in the same boat…

    1. Anon for current purposes*

      Thanks. I’ll definitely take this into consideration.

      For now I’ve pretty much written what I can write; just working on tuning up for the computer modeling (almost completely there).But I’ve realized I’ve kinda done something like you’ve suggested. I’ve been able to practice self-care by spending time on the Web while the program is running. Normally a time waster, but I find it to be therapeutic, especially after the really bad personal emergency late this week.

      I’ll work on scheduling the remaining writing in the way that you’ve suggested. I think, based on the results of how I’ve been working so far, that this will be a really good mental health buffer.

      1. Anon for current purposes*

        Sorry, I didn’t realize this was independent from my thread. I didn’t mean to hijack your thingy. Rorry…

  225. stardust*

    I quit my job after three months because my management wanted an error rate I can’t give them and started seeing me as the runt of the lot. I tried very, very, extraordinarily hard to make it work. In fact, the only positive things in my review were that I’m a team player and work very hard. That was awful, because I bring so much more to every team I’ve ever worked with.

    I’ve been having breakdowns, I’m sick, and my doctors told me I need to get my stress under control if my memory, depression, and sickness are going to get any better.

    So I quit. They were relieved. I was relieved. Now I’m trying to figure out what to say to interviewers. Please help!

    1. Robin B*

      Can you just leave that job off your resume, since it was such a short period?

      1. stardust*

        I’ve thought about this, but what happens if they find out independently? I read online that background checks can reveal that kind of information.

    2. Fabulous*

      You discovered management had unrealistic expectations of what could actually be delivered in the job. There was no way to succeed in that position, and thus felt the need to move on.

  226. Mimmy*

    It’s probably too late now, but here goes…

    I get along with the instructor I work with, but she can be quite negative, often complaining about management and technical issues in the classroom. This is definitely having an impact on my enjoyment of the job (though I have other issues too).

    I want to bring this up to my supervisor, but I don’t want to get her in trouble because she has much more experience than I do, and if they let her go or she quits, I don’t feel prepared to cover the classroom myself (I will be doing that for several weeks in June & July).

    For context: It’s not a typical classroom; typically the instructor (myself and/or the primary person) work with one or two students at a time. Many of these students have multiple disabilities.

  227. Bucky Badger*

    I know I’m late to the party, but I needed to share. I work for a large company an internal position I thought I would be perfect for, so I submitted my application a week ago. I look at the status of the application today, and see that the position has been filled. Didn’t even receive the canned “we’ve gone with someone else “. Love the communication. It’s just frustrating

    1. Robin B*

      Since it was so fast, maybe they had already hired someone before you even applied?

      1. Bucky Badger*

        I think you’re right. I applied the day after the position appeared, so I am guessing they had a candidate picked out, but had to put the posting out there. But at least click the button that sends an email to all applicants with the canned email.

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