open thread – June 16-17, 2017

by Alison Green on June 16, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

You may also like:
{ 1,061 comments }

{ 1,061 comments… read them below }

  1. Jimbo*

    I have an upcoming interview that I am excited about. This position will be a move up for me professionally and includes supervising people for the first time in a number of years. I have been mostly a project manager and technical person for most of my career and my last few positions have been progressively increasing in responsibility, complexity and size of projects. The individuals interviewing me this round will be people whom the position will supervise.

    I’ve directly supervised people before but not for a while. The last time I managed staff was 15 years ago and that was one entry level person and prior to that, part-time student workers in a workstudy program.

    In this prospective job, it will be two highly skilled and experienced manager-level, technical staff who I will potentially manage. I appreciate tips and advice on how best to prepare and what to anticipate as far as questions they may likely ask or issues they might look out for.

    1. KiteFlier*

      I’d imagine they will ask about your management style. Even if you haven’t managed people directly in a while, think about how to manage your relationships with internal teams – how do you gather information from them, etc.

    2. Anon Anon*

      In addition, to the management style, I know one question that I have received from people who would report directly to me is what type of mentoring and development I can offer the individuals in the department. I find that many people who are reports want to know what they can learn from the person they report to, and what opportunities might be available for them to learn and grow. At least this is a question I’ve been asked on several occasions.

      1. Gabby*

        Related to this, a good friend of mine interviewed her potential future bosses recently, and her key question was how they would think about growing the department. I think the goal was to understand how her role would shift as new employees were hired and the direction in which the boss wanted to take the department (business development at a small but growing startup).

    3. Jimbo*

      Thanks both! I am curious Anon Anon — how did you answer questions about mentorship and development in the past? I ask because I don’t know the policy and budget for professional development that the organization offers and I don’t want to answer in a way that will be wildly inaccurate or unsuited for their budget or internal arrangements.

      1. Anon Anon*

        That’s actually a question I try and ask HR or the hiring manager, what sorts of professional resources and budget is available for all staff. If the answer is nothing or no one really knows, then it’s a red flag for me as an employee and a manager.

        So I generally have a decent sense of what types of things (tuition reimbursement, association memberships, etc.) the organization will cover. However, I typically answer the question that I am supportive of professional development and growth, and then discuss how in the past when I’ve gotten new reports that we sit down and discuss what their professional development goals are (if any), so that we can determine together how I can best assist them to reach those goals, or even if that is a possibility. I like having an honest conversation about what the person wants to achieve. If there are opportunities and skills that I can help someone build so that they can better perform in their current job, or that will give them the skills to move up, then I want to do that.

        Generally, that sort of response has gone down quite well for that sort of question.

    4. Angelinha*

      They may ask you about the first change you’d anticipate making. That was a question we asked when I was part of an interview panel for a new director. It got us some good insight about the candidates, especially about the woman who – honestly – said she worked best with people she’d brought on herself, so she’d take a look at people’s performance and see who should stay or who may not be the right fit. Um…..glad you said that, but hello, the people you’re talking about are the ones interviewing you!

      1. BWooster*

        This is the reason I wonder if it makes sense for subordinates to interview their manager. A clean sweep might be the right approach and it’s never going to get past people who are likeliest to be effected.

        1. John B Public*

          This department sounds like it’s functioning well, so why would you throw that away? That makes as much sense as throwing away your old tools because you got a new toolbox.

          I’m not saying there aren’t valid instances where you’d do a clean sweep, but this doesn’t seem like one of those situations. If the true value is the team, then it makes sense that the new manager would need to be interviewed by them, since they are the value-makers and the role of the manager is to increase their value-making.

  2. TCO*

    I’ve been working full-time for about ten years now and I’m trying to move into my first management role. I’ve been very well-regarded at my jobs and have been told often that I’m smart, personable, and a strong leader. I know I’m ready for the next step up.

    My ambition is to continue moving into higher leadership roles throughout my career. My concern? I don’t think I’m “visionary” enough. I’m good at developing new programs and projects from scratch with limited resources. I’m creative. But I think I’m too pragmatic and I struggle to “dream big.” I know that holds me back sometimes. I’ve seen it play out in both my professional and volunteer lives: other people have the big, courageous, long-range ideas that our organization needs, and my mind just doesn’t work that way. I can appreciate that being all vision and no implementation is a problem, but isn’t the reverse a problem, too? I’ve seen that when leaders think too small, their organizations stagnate.

    I work primarily in the nonprofit sector, where success requires a mix of strong management skills and a bold vision to keep adapting to challenging circumstances. Management skills I have. But do I need to be more visionary to be a great leader in this field? If so, how can I develop those skills?

    1. Me too*

      I don’t have any advice, only commiseration. And I’d love to hear how others are handling it. My pragmatism is one of my strengths, but I know that strategic, visionary stuff isn’t my strong suit at all.

      1. Sue*

        It takes a mix of talents to make a project work. There are lots of people with big ideas and little follow through. Being a pragmatic thinker who gets stuff done is highly valuable. Don’t sell yourself short.

    2. Leena Wants Cake*

      Are you able to surround yourself with people who do think big? Are there any visionary thinkers you trust to give you recommendations? As a manager, you don’t necessarily have to come up with the big ideas yourself–but you should be able recognize worthwhile ideas when they come along and foster a culture where innovation is valued so people feel empowered to share big ideas.

      1. Jerry Vandesic*

        I absolutely agree. The best management idea I ever learned was to surround yourself with people smarter than you. Find visionary people to work for you that can fill in the gaps as well as teach you.

    3. misspiggy*

      I’m exactly the same. One answer is to cultivate ideas from people in your team and from your bosses. My superhero boss would do this all the time, regularly having strategy meetings for the team and asking us for big-picture ideas in response to the latest external development or management priority.

    4. KR*

      When I took Intro to Business, my teacher said something that really stuck with me. He essentially said that we can’t all be the next Steve Jobs, master programmer, engineer that designs something groundbreaking, great innovator, ect. Some people are really good at making things happen, managing processes, or just doing their part in the machine that is a successful company. And that’s okay. He was a guy in logistics and distribution. He didn’t do anything no one had ever heard of and he probably wasn’t the best, but he did his job well, formed good business relationships, worked hard, and eventually he moved up to senior management. This is the advice that made me go into business whereas before I was so convinced I should be an engineer when I really wasn’t excelling at the classes for it. Someone has to make the visionary stuff happen and it looks like you’re in a great position to do that. Don’t give up and I wish you success.

      1. starsaphire*

        This, exactly. Every D.D. Harriman needs a George Strong (or two) to make the big ideas happen. What good are the ideas without the planning and effort to bring them to fruition?

        1. DArcy*

          What made Apple successful is that they pretty much built an entire company around supporting a single genius visionary. The purpose of everyone else at Apple was to hold Steve Jobs’ coattails and do all the nuts-and-bolts work of building out his ideas.

    5. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      I’ve worked in the non-profit sector for the last seven years so I actually really appreciate a manager who is not as much a visionary but has a more realistic view. I’ve had senior leadership come up with the most impractical, unnecessary ideas and sometimes I feel like I’m alone in my thinking that it just won’t work because all of the leadership are visionaries. I’m someone who overly practical which can hurt me at times and when I need to think a little larger, I create a wishlist where I can’t say no to anything off the bat. I then will sit down with someone else and discuss which may actually be possible as sometimes other people think larger than I do. I think it probably depends on what department you work in but where I’ve seen people be really successful is putting together a team so you don’t have just someone who thinks of great ideas but can’t execute and someone who can manage a project really well and can take those ideas and make them happen.

      1. paul*

        Yep. And don’t get me started on board members with grandiose plans…when they’ve never actually navigated the social services sector. Oy vey.

    6. NW Mossy*

      It sounds to me like the right next step for you would be a front-line manager role in a decent-sized organization. They primarily manage individual contributors and focus on developing their teams and working on projects, usually in conjunction with their peers and subject matter experts. It’s a good intermediate point to see if leadership is truly for you and give you a chance to see how senior leaders develop a vision and learn from them.

      From the outside looking in, it can sometimes seem like senior leaders are hypercompetent visionaries who spend their time building great constructs of ideas. But in reality, they’re people too – they face struggles with their work, sometimes the ideas don’t come or don’t work, and sometimes they’re just plain wrong. Having a perfect vision and executing it perfectly is generally not required; an open mind and the ability to build good relationships with others is. The best senior leaders draw a lot of input from various places and sift it to a decision, and that’s something many people can learn to do well if they focus on it.

    7. Didi*

      I’m not a visionary either, so I hear you. But you know what? Visionaries are notorious for not getting things done. They have great ideas but lack the ability (the focus, the time or the skills) to see things through and make their ideas actually happen.

      I learned to OWN my ability to get things done. It’s a valuable skill to have and much appreciated.

      It’s hard to learn to be visionary. You can get ideas by networking in your field and staying on top of technology.

    8. Kimberlee, Esq.*

      Yeah, agreed with others that I don’t think this is necessarily a problem. But I think you can also improve! One thing to do is read books that help you see things differently, to expand your ideas of what’s possible. A great one I read recently is William C. Taylor’s “Simply Brilliant” which is about a bunch of different types of companies that do incredible things… the main thrust of the book is “don’t let what you know limit what you can imagine.”

    9. Blue_eyes*

      The pragmatic people are the ones who make the “big ideas” happen. It sounds like moving into project management or operations might be a good fit for you. Chief Operations Officer is a C-level job too! Most organizations need people who dream big AND people who Get S(tuff) Done.

    10. College Career Counselor*

      I’m not sure how much advice I have for you either, but I have struggled with this as well. But here are a couple of possibilities:

      1) Try to remove financial and staffing constraints from your thinking when doing big picture/visionary. *
      2) Try to envision what it would look like for the entire constituency (clients, students, colleagues, whatever) to have access, training, information, resources, etc. through this new idea you have.
      3) Try to think of what ONE thing (ie, transformational) will make the situation you work in better (that can be visionary)
      4) Failing that, try to figure out what series of incremental actions or processes might be grouped together under a larger “visionary” heading (even if it’s stuff you’re already doing, sometimes the framing will help take things to the next level).

      Hope this is useful!

      *Admittedly, the pragmatic part of my brain that says, “well, they’re never going to give you five million bucks to do this thing the way it needs to be done” gets in the way.

    11. Not So NewReader*

      Vantage point comes in to play here, also. People closer to the top are privy to more information that helps them craft their vision. It is harder to do this when you are not in their position.

      The people who hire for these positions can sometimes pick up clues as to the person’s ability to do the job. They could decide that you would grow into a position based on how you have done with your current work.

      The term bold vision can sound pretty intimidating. Honestly, I think it is over used. What does bold mean? Outsmarting the system and the regs? Getting there before a competitor does? Launching a high risk endeavor?

      I think LEARN your arena. Know it like you know how to breathe. Meet as many people as possible, know what it is they do. This becomes your foundation that you will work off of. You can’t have a vision if you do not have a good handle on 1) what is out there already and 2) what resources are available and this means human beings as well as materials. Then you start looking around. Where are there needs? And typically, we have to start small. Identify a need, figure out a solution. It’s in doing this repeatedly that we learn how to solve bigger problems and we gain a vision of bigger ideas. We have to handle the smaller stuff to see the interconnections and the disconnections.

      While it’s true you may not be a visionary on the grander scale you may be darn good at mapping out plans for several years from now.
      Conversely, you may decide that having visions for future projects is not something you actually enjoy. And you lose interest in developing more visionary skills.

      The path is not always clear. We want to walk a mile down the road. But there is a curve and we can’t see the last half mile of road. So the solution is to get as far as the curve in the road and see how things look at that point. Then decide whether to continue on, stay put or take a side path. A pearl of wisdom I have held on to is to do what you see in front of you. Get that done and look around for what new things you now see in front of you. The rule of thumb is if we try to skip steps or try to go out too far we will have a hard time figuring out what to do next. We should keep looking at what is right in front of us, because that does change and it’s important to follow those changes.

    13. BRR*

      No. My previous manager was a “visionary” and that was about her only good quality. It was also what made her a source of major stress in my life. I would have given anything for a manager who could implement ideas.

    14. Thinking Outside the Boss*

      OP, I wouldn’t worry about it.

      I became a supervisor in 2010 and a manager in 2013, and for both jobs, my agency wanted to know what I’d do differently to make my agency a better place, i.e. they wanted me to outline my vision. I had the same concerns as you and I came up with enough good ideas to get the promotion.

      Once I promoted, my bosses could care less about my visions and more about whether I could implement whatever vision the agency had, regardless of who was the author of the visionary ideas.

      Go forth and prosper!

    15. Observer*

      In the short term, this is not a problem. The ability to get things done is gold. In the long term, though, it could hold you back, depending on where you want to wind up.

      A few things that can be helpful.

      1. Keep honing your ability to get things done, and done better, differently and under different circumstances. This sounds counter-intuitive, but it really helps. For one thing, it gives you credibility when you come up with “big” ideas that are “out there” or very different from what has been done before. When you say “I think we can do this” your record of getting things done will help. Also, as you broaden your experience you’ll begin to see different things that can be done, and you’ll begin to see more opportunities and holes that could stand to be filled.

      2. Become friends with, and learn from “big thinkers”. Look at who is a big thinker and gets things done, who is a big thinker who gets other people to actually get things done, and who is a big thinker whose ideas don’t go anywhere or only get somewhere once someone else has taken it over.

      3. Leadership is not about being able to do everything yourself. Learn how to tap big thinkers on your team(s), even if only on smaller projects. Especially as you develop you skill at figuring out how to get new and different things done, you’ll be in a good position to take those ideas and make them happen.

      4. Make it a habit to look at every annoyance, hole or problem you run into as an opportunity to think of a way to fix or solve that issue. Ask yourself what it would take, at a birds eye level, to fix this problem? Is it worth it? Why or why not? For every 2nd or 3rd “worth it” idea sketch out a plan of action. This will help you develop the vision you’re looking for.

  3. Mixing Work and Volunteering*

    I recently started as an administrative person in a sales dept. I’m bottom of the totem pole but really enjoying it so far. I’m also a volunteer with a local event that is in line with the kinds of clients my sales dept wants. My dept works with other events that are identical to the one I volunteer with, which is growing and promising to be around for a while. My dept has services that I think the event could definitely benefit from.

    As far as I can tell, the two have never connected and I can’t decide whether I should try to connect them or not. I’m administrative so it’s not actually my job to make sales but I know the founder of the event pretty well (I’ve volunteered from the first year so he recognizes me on sight and by name, rare for the giant group of volunteers, and we’re social media friends who talk online on occasion) so it would be easy to ask if he was interested in talking to my company. But I worry about mixing my job with my volunteering if something goes south in either direction. Plus my company policy won’t allow mixing that might be financially beneficial to me; though I’m an unpaid volunteer now, I’d love to become staff some day (not a full time job that would force me to leave current job, it would only occupy a few of my weekends) but my job may not allow that if they’re working together. However, if I don’t say anything and my job finds the event on their own, it would be easily known that I volunteer with them and my boss might wonder why I didn’t do the connecting myself.

    So should I bring this information to my boss to see if he wants to be connected with the event founder or should I just leave it alone?

    1. Lizard*

      I think if you feel like this has the potential for a mutually beneficial relationship it would be totally reasonable to reach out to the founder and see if he’s interested in being contacted by your company, and if so, let your boss know that you think this is a potential client and that the sales folks should get in touch. If you limit your role to making the introduction I don’t think there’s too much of a downside there other than the potential limitation on paid work with the event. On the other hand, if you decide not to, I wouldn’t worry too much about your boss being upset that you’re a volunteer and didn’t try to make the contact–you’re admin, not sales, and it’s totally reasonable to try to keep your work and personal life separate, especially if you say you were worried that it might be a potential conflict of interest.

    2. ZVA*

      I would definitely bring it to your boss and see what he thinks! Can’t see the harm in that. But I wouldn’t bring it up with the event founder without talking to your boss first. (Context: I’m in sales, and while I know I and my managers would appreciate a tip like this, I don’t think I’d want a non–sales colleague reaching out on my/the company’s behalf before bringing it to me.)

      Good luck!

      1. John B Public*

        Who you talk to first depends on who you have the bigger relationship with, or the one you value the most. If you approach the founder, take care not to make any promises about what your company can accomplish, instead use examples of what your company has done in the past and ask if those are the sorts of things the founder is interested in.

        If you approach your boss, emphasize how valuable your relationship to the founder is to you, and ask about how to preserve it if your company begins a business relationship with the event.

  4. Amelia Bedelia*

    So, I’m 99% sure my supervisor is getting fired in the near future. It’s frankly long overdue. The problems are deep in both her poor attitude, and performance (I can attest especially to the misery she casts upon the office with her downright horrible attitude and rudeness).

    Long story short, earlier this week, I gave big boss (per his request), pages and pages of documentation on supervisor. Today, big boss is meeting with his boss at corporate to get the ball rolling, and go over all the documentation (mine and others’) that they have on supervisor. Based on the meeting big boss had with me regarding his plans for supervisor, I have no indication that they’re not going to let her go. She’s already had several warnings and been put on performance plans (according to big boss) over the past year.

    However, my only fear is that somehow, supervisor will convince big boss to give her another chance, and that supervisor will retaliate against me for all the documentation I wrote on her (we are in a small office, so it’s inevitable that when big boss brings up issues with her, supervisor will know it was me that “tattled” on her.) Although big boss claims that others have brought him documentation on supervisor as well, 90% of our employees are salespeople who only have to deal with supervisor on a minimal basis, so I’m certain I have the most extensive, and blunt documentation on supervisor.

    I voiced my concerns to big boss about retaliation, to which he assured me I “had nothing to worry about there”, and repeatedly drove home the point that he “wouldn’t allow that.” However, even assuming that they do fire her, I’m very concerned about my safety in the office. Supervisor has shown incredibly alarming behavior time and time again with her short temper and jarring outbursts, so I certainly wouldn’t put it past her to come back to the office and cause harm. (Especially to me, since I’m the one who works most closely with her.)

    My company traditionally has fired employees on Fridays, so since big boss is meeting with his boss today to get everything set, I think the earliest they will fire supervisor is next Friday. Still, I’m already concerned about the possibility of retaliation. We are a small office, so we don’t have security or anything. How can I ease my mind?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I wouldn’t suggest this to the person doing the firing, but you’re not that person– can you take the day off when they do it? If so, I would recommend doing something very nice for yourself, like going to a museum or the spa or the movies, something that might take you out of the situation for a few hours.

      1. Amelia Bedelia*

        I had considered that, and still may ask big boss about that. He knows the discomfort and awkwardness I’ll feel when he addresses my documentation with her (and subsequently lets her go), so I’m hopeful that he’ll encourage me to take at least part of the day off when she is being fired.

    2. Turquoise Cow*

      It sounds like the big boss is pretty set and determined to fire her, so I’m sure you’re not alone in thinking she’s a horrible employee, supervisor, and all around person. I don’t know what your security is like, but I don’t think any other employee would let her in if that was required. Also: It’s not “tattling” if you brought big boss evidence that he asked for – she dug this hole herself.

      Congratulations on getting rid of someone horrible! I’m sure that many of us here have suffered (/are suffering) with bosses or coworkers who are horrible and kept on for way longer than they should be. You’ll soon be free!

      1. Amelia Bedelia*

        Yes, I’m SO relieved that it’s the end of an era here with her (almost certainly) being let go. She’s been a dark cloud over the office for years. You are pretty spot on that she is a horrible employee, supervisor, and all around person. I know that everyone here will be breathing a sigh of relief when she’s finally let go.

    3. Katelyn*

      Since you’ve been speaking with the supervisor’s boss directly, if Supervisor manages a hail Mary and stays on for one last shot if there is any retaliation, or really anything that shows she’s still keeping all her old habits, I’d say document and discuss with Boss. Be sure that it’s not petty things, unless there’s so many of them that it’s an obvious chain of harassment, but things like not giving you what you need to complete your work for the company, I’d go directly and immediately to Boss about it.

      1. Amelia Bedelia*

        It’s funny you should say that – she actually ALREADY withholds information that I (and other employees) need to complete our work.

    4. mamabear*

      Ooof. I think you’d be perfectly justified in taking vacation on or around the day your boss is fired. I’m really sorry. I went through this just a few months ago and it was a rotten few weeks (the time between when I knew it was going to happen and when it actually happened). And, of course, I couldn’t talk to my team about anything that I knew.

      I would also ask your supervisor what his/her plans are for the fired employee. Are they getting let go and escorted from the building on the spot, or will there be a transition period? Because I think it’s reasonable to request to work from home during the transition period.

      In my case, I was very honest and upfront about my concerns and leadership decided to let my fired boss work from home on “special projects” during the transition time. They also minimized the contact I would have with this person. I think we exchanged two emails about the project and that was it.

      1. Amelia Bedelia*

        Thank you for your sympathies! It will certainly be a tough time between now and when the trigger is pulled, not having more information on the details. I think she will be done once she’s officially fired, though. I don’t think they will ask her to stay for any period of time.

    5. designbot*

      I’d follow up with Big Boss and briefly express your concerns. Say hey, I know that you and I haven’t spoken about what the outcome of these discussions will be but if keeping supervisor on is a possibility, could you proceed with some mindfulness about the outcome for me? I’ve been very open with you and a lot of that information would be easy to identify the source of, and the more I think about it the more I realize the damage that could do to our ability to move forward together.

      1. Amelia Bedelia*

        I actually just followed up with him this morning, he reiterated that I “don’t need to worry about that, because we’re moving on from her.” I think I needed to perhaps express more of my concern for safety, even AFTER she’s gone. I think big boss’s thinking is that it won’t be an issue because she won’t be employed here anymore, but I think it still potentially could be.

        1. designbot*

          oh gosh. Yeah I hadn’t gotten that from your description. Is there a specific reason for that concern?

          1. Amelia Bedelia*

            She’s just shown behavior that indicates some serious mental issues. The smallest things cause her to go absolutely insane to the point where everyone around just kind of just freezes in awe of her overreactions. Based on that, I can’t even think about how strongly she’ll react to being fired, especially knowing all the information I provided big boss with.

            Maybe I’m being overly cautious fearing that she’ll come back to the office and retaliate with the intention of physically harming employees, but based on the behavior I’ve seen, I tend to think otherwise.

    6. Michael Carmichael*

      I had a boss like this, and had similar fears about both the possibility she could talk her way to a second (fifth?) chance, or that she would react inappropriately if let go. The day she was actually let go was SUPER AWKWARD because after she met with big boss, she stomped into her office (feet away from where we were all working) and started literally throwing things into boxes. The moving out process took a loooong time and we couldn’t work for the stress but had to look busy, we were all so afraid she was going to come out of her office and shout/throw things at us – I heartily second the person who said Take A Personal Day that day. If at all possible.

      1. Amelia Bedelia*

        Reading this is actually scarily real for me. EVERYTHING you’ve described here sounds exactly how I anticipate my supervisor acting. Like, if I could paint a picture of how it will be, your description in spot on. She has A LOT of stuff in her office, including many picture frames, paintings, and even decorative plates on a hanging wire rack. I could definitely see her smashing things, kicking boxes, throwing stuff, etc. Taking a personal day is sounding like the best solution.

        1. Michael Carmichael*

          I feel for you. In my situation, nothing actually happened – she didn’t end up speaking to any of us at all – but I just felt sick to my stomach the entire day, and it was a complete waste of a day, workwise.

          But, once she was gone it was amazing, so I will hope for that for you also! We didn’t even HAVE a manager for a while but everything was so smooth and conflict free, we happily pitched in and got things done until we got our new manager (who was not insane).

          1. Amelia Bedelia*

            That’s great! I am hopeful that it’ll be amazing once my manager is gone, too. I think we may be manager-less for a while as well, but it’ll be worth it to (hopefully) have a less insane manager in the future!

        2. RVA Cat*

          If that’s the case, honestly I wonder if it might be wise for your employer to have someone (not you!) pack up her office as discretely as possible while she is in her termination meeting.

          1. Rick Tq*

            Exactly what I was going to suggest. BigBoss should hire professional movers come in to pack her office while she is in the termination meeting.

            Even more importantly, IT needs to be notified as soon as the meeting starts to boot her from the network and disable her user account(s).

            Once she is packed site security can escort her to the door and collect badges and keys. If she is that big a loon perhaps even having the building re-keyed so any copies she may have at home won’t work.

            1. LKR*

              I have a friend/excoworker who was fired. She & I both worked as secretaries at a law firm. They didn’t escort her out, & she went back to her computer & deleted all of the work she’d done that day. Luckily, it was retrieved from the server or I would have had to redo her work.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Encourage the boss to set up an emergency plan. This could include keeping your cell phone in your pocket at all times. Maybe the boss could decide that there should be x number of people in the office at all times for a while. Implement a buddy system. This would mean shifting work loads around or moving outside meetings. There are many simple things that can be done to help.

      Having gone through some kind of wild situations myself, I would like to reassure you that most times what we fear never happens. Of course, not all the time, so prep is wise. One thing I have done is let people around me know there is a potential problem at work and would they keep an eye on me, my place and my vehicle. Honestly, I think that these things help create an air about the situation. It’s a no nonsense air, where the angry person realizes there are just too many people watching to see what happens next.

      Getting everyone on the same page is important. Have some idea of how you will take care of yourself, a half baked plan is better than no plan.

      Hold on to this thought: When dealing with angry people, it’s good to look for common ground. Look for something you both agree on. So let’s say she stops at your desk and starts screaming at you about how unfair things are etc. Listen to what she is saying and find something that you can agree with. In this example here, you might decide that you agree her job was hard. So you say, “I do agree that your job was a difficult job, there were lots of moving parts and that made it hard.” Notice that the agreement here is with a very limited part of what she is saying. However, validation is a powerful tool and it can be used to defuse tense situations. Meanwhile you are furiously dialing 911 on the cell in your lap that she can not see.

  5. Cass*

    I’ve got a phone interview next week for a job that would be more senior than the role I’m in now, but it would mean a cross country move. I’m super excited about the location, but really hesitant about uprooting and leaving if I were to get/accept an offer. It’s crazy, right? I’d love to hear from anyone who went through this. Any tips on addressing the location issue in the interview? For context, I’m married with no kids, but we do have a young dog. Happy Friday!

    1. the gold digger*

      Unless this would be a huge, huge increase in salary, I would not pay for a move myself. And even when they are paying for the move (I have had four corporate moves), it is really, really hard to move. Your life completely starts over – new doctor, new dentist, new grocery store, new friends (which get harder and harder to make the older you get).

      However. You asked about bringing up the location. I assume they know you are not in their city? If so, I would wait for an offer before asking about a move package. (And it should include not just the packers and the movers but also a relocation allowance to cover things like new drivers licenses, registering the car in another state, cancelled gym fees, etc. My last corporate relo was in 1999 and I got $10,000 in cash in addition to their paying all the move expenses and they grossed everything up for taxes.)

    2. Ms. Mad Scientist*

      I did this five years ago. Husband and I moved to a new city 1000 miles away. Move was extremely rough though. My husband stayed behind to sell our house. I came back once the house was sold and made a the drive to our new home with our three cats. Still at the same company and have been promoted. For the most part New City is great other than the real estate situation.
      If at all possible, try to negotiate short-term housing, maybe a few weeks or a month in an extended stay hotel. We sat on the floor for ten days while we waited for the moving company to show up. Plus it will give you a chance to check out the area and see what neighborhoods you like.

      1. Mirth & Merry*

        Hugely agree with trying to negotiate short term housing. (or even just a vote to consider that initially) My company put me on a project in a new location in the middle of January in a very small town very old town in the mountains. I was on the edge of a mini breakdown trying to find a place to live that was even livable (very small, very very old town with very very very old houses ) and they even gave me a few weeks. Spring/summer is a much better time to move though so fingers crossed you have much better options!

        Also totally dependent on your personal situation but even just a few months in you will learn about the areas and figure out where you like to go/what kind of lifestyle you want. I actually ended up on the other side of town from my initial “target area” and am happy I don’t have a lease that I am stuck in/have to break/sublet/whatever or with a mortgage in a house I hate.

    3. De Minimis*

      I’ve done it, I would only do it if you were really excited about the job and the location.

      It also depends on how hard it would be to move, how attached you and your spouse are to where you’re at now, and other things.

      Our dogs had a tough time adjusting when we moved, something about the new location didn’t agree with them and they were sick all of the time. May have just been the stress of moving. They were also older, a younger dog might have an easier time.

      We had a similar situation to what was mentioned below, one of us stayed behind to pack up and sell the house, and we ended up being apart for over a year.

      We ended up moving back to the state we came from a few years later. There just wasn’t enough job opportunity for my wife in the other place.

      1. Cass*

        Thanks for the input. I imagine the time apart was rough. Yeah, we need to make sure that we’re really in love the new location on its own and not only the idea of a new adventure.

        1. Kimberlee, Esq.*

          Eh, I don’t think you need to be in love with the new location, you just want to make sure you don’t love your _current_ location so much that it will pain you to move. I’ve been in DC for about 6 years now, and it took me probably 6 months to a year to really love it… but not loving the places I’d lived before helped, and now it’s hard to imagine living anywhere else!

          If you truly love where you are now, it might not be worth the move. But if not, it might be worth the adventure to try to find out if you might love the new location!

    4. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

      I moved my family (husband and 4 year old daughter) from New York State to Wisconsin in 2001. Moving so far from family was hard but it turned out to be a great move for our family and at the time my career. We love where we live and even though I’ve switched jobs a few times since then, the area I live in now is much larger and has more opportunity than where we used to live. My husband and I agreed that if we were going to make a move, it needed to happen before our daughter started school, so for us it was our one chance so we went for it.

      It does take a lot of readjusting, and I think also depends on how much of a support system where you are now that you’ll be losing. We lived hours away from our families even in New York, so being 100% on our own once we got to Wisconsin wasn’t too overwhelming. It did take a while to sell our old house, and even longer for my husband to get a job in his field, but 16 years later I don’t have a single regret about moving.

      1. Cass*

        “My husband and I agreed that if we were going to make a move, it needed to happen before our daughter started school, so for us it was our one chance so we went for it.”

        Exactly. My wife and I have been talking about making a move like this for some time since we don’t have kids yet. We would be going from having my parents in the same city and several friends in the surrounding cities to being 100% on our own. Might be that we’re more in love with the idea of “Adventure!” Gotta figure that part out. Thanks for the perspective.

    5. AnotherHRPro*

      I’ve moved cross country 4 times with corporate relocation. It is difficult, but if the company offers relocation that helps a great deal. You don’t want to bring up relocation at this time as it is too soon in the process (just like you don’t bring up questions about health insurance coverage in the first interview). Once you get further down the road it fine to get a better understanding of what support the company provides to new hires that are relocating. Specifically: temporary housing, home sale or lease breaking assistance, pack and move of household goods, travel back and forth during the move process, etc.

      While doing a cross country move is hard, I personally and professionally found it worthwhile and would do it again. Good luck to you.

    6. Rachel in NYC*

      We did it when I was a little kid and my mom had a difficult time with the move. She isn’t something who moves someplace and just makes friends – so moving across the country and leaving her support group was really difficult, it wasn’t something she ever totally re-created.

      So where I’m going, is something to consider is how you and your spouse socialize and make friends and how that will impact your life in a new city. I have a cousin who’s husband is quiet and meets people slowly, but she’s the opposite and before a move has happened will have contacts ready to go in a new city. My sister has lived in her current city for almost a year and for the first several months, the only people she socialized with were my parents who had moved there to help out her and my BIL, because she doesn’t just make friends places.

    7. Stephivist*

      I moved my family 2000 miles last summer for a new position without relocation assistance (government – not an option w/ this agency). Me + husband + 2 kids (1 disabled in wheelchair) + dog.

      Some thoughts:
      -I moved in June and the family didn’t follow me until just before school started. Supporting two households was financially difficult. Our new home has a ridiculous housing market and we weren’t able to find any reasonable short-term housing options. I slept on an air mattress and owned 1 chair. It was hilarious and uncomfortable.
      -We emptied our savings and are still recovering from that blow. I expect it will take us another year to break even.
      -Our house didn’t sell until December. So we weren’t actually free and clear for six months.
      -I still don’t have any close friends in the new location. Acquaintances, yes. You might be better at this than we are though.
      -Moving doctors is something people worry about a lot, but is generally not a big deal. My son has 7 doctors. Even that went smoothly.

      Would I do it all again? Yes, absolutely. No hesitation.

      1. Cass*

        I’d love to hear more about what convinced you that it was the right choice despite the difficulties of moving if you’re willing to share. My wife works in a field with a high employment rate so finding a job for her wouldn’t be difficult. We’re renting but would need to break our lease if we left. And we would definitely be draining our savings to make this move if relocation assistance weren’t offered.

        1. Stephivist*

          In my case, the position was a huge step forward. I’m in my mid-30s working in a position that a lot of people would retire from. I also left a location where I had topped out career-wise. I could see the field of people waiting for someone else to retire – the competition for future jobs was going to be difficult. I’m very passionate about my career, so the ability to take this kind of position was very important to me.

          My husband works in tech, so knowing that he could find something pretty much anywhere was a plus, for sure. He isn’t in his dream job here (and he loved his last position, so its been a bit of an adjustment), but he found something quickly and has a lot of opportunity.

          Knowing we were going to have to drain the savings was the most difficult issue to overcome. We just starting running numbers and decided that the future payoff would be worth the hardship now. Of course, we are taking a gamble that we won’t have an unmanageable financial crisis in the meantime.

    8. attornaut*

      I’ve done this twice–once to a location I really wanted, once for a job I really wanted. Both times worked out well, but I was also moving from a small apartment with an easy-going spouse (and pets). Now, with a whole house to move… I don’t know. It would take A LOT to even consider it.

      Have you spent time in the new location? I think, for the purposes of the interview, just expressing a willingness to move (and if you do have any times to the new location, a brief mention) is probably fine. Once you have an offer, though, you’d want to seriously consider what relocation package is available, and whether your view of the new location is accurate/complete. I know a lot of people leave my (desirable?) location after about 6 months of discovering that it’s not actually as presented in movies when you are a real person working a real 9-5 type job.

    9. New Las Vegas resident*

      I just did this. As in I relocated at the end of February.

      It sucked. It still sucks.

      I moved out of my house of 20 years (with a big yard) into an apartment. I hate it. No, I CANNOT get a new house right now. Also I’m paying rent & morgage.

      My family is 1200 miles away. My dad is having serious health problems.

      I talk to my coworkers and my cat. I haven’t had the mental bandwidth to join any groups/meet ups yet. I still haven’t fully unpacked.

      For moving my cat, I put her on a leash and had a large, flat Rubbermaid container as a litter box. The box was open in the uhaul cab but I could put the lid on to move it into hotel rooms. She spent the first day looking out the wind0ws and the next 2 days hiding under the seat. I think she has adapted better that than I have. Helps that she likes walking on the leash! :-)

      This was the best move for my career. I’ll eventually adapt. Having a minor health problem turn into a serious, affecting my work, problem did not help. Totally, completely, wildly different weather is also not helping.

      I have a cat to pet. Ask me what I think in a year.

      After I received the job offer I asked about location assistance. It was added w/no problems. $5,000 reimbursed. This is a position they were having problems filling so….shrug. Also make SURE you know know exactly what they will and will not allow. Up to 30 days in a hotel but Airb&B(?) was not allowed. Stuff like that. And there are a lot of expenses that I had to swallow.

      My anxiety levels went through the roof and are still high.

      There are about a gizzilion decisions to think about and balls to keeps in the air if you move. Accept that you are going to mess up on some.

      Good luck!

  6. CA Admin*

    I put in my notice! I got accepted into a 12 week software development bootcamp that starts in the fall, so I told my office that I’ll be leaving in a few months. They’re sad to see me go, but excited that I’m pursuing this opportunity! It’s something I’ve been working towards for a couple of years now and I’m really scared and excited to be making the change. They told me that I always have a place, if I decide I hate it and want to come back. They also told me I’ve been the best EA that the group has ever had and it’s going to be really hard to replace me.

    What a week!

    5. bluesboy*

      That they tell you you’re always welcome to come back is a wonderful tribute to you, and also a very practical safety net to have! As someone who also changed line of work relatively recently I know how great that is to have, so much easier to focus on the new if you know that whatever happens you’ll always be able to pay your bills.

      Best of luck!

    6. Windchime*

      Wow, congratulations! I’ll be super interested in hearing how your boot camp goes. I’ve heard good things.

  7. High Fiber*

    I feel like I’m always one step ahead of my boss and he hates it. He’ll ask me to put the teapots in size order and I already did that yesterday and color coordinated them and he’ll respond “Oh I forgot about the colors, I guess you were right again.”
    He’s very distracted (not busy) and not involved much. Which is actually great because I am an incredibly independent worker. We’re rolling out a new product and I’m the lead. He always admits he doesn’t know much about teapots but says I’m an expert. But whenever I flex my knowledge he seems insecure. He compliments my work ethic but calls me a ball buster. I’m not being condescending, I just feel like he has a inferiority complex and now that I’m recognizing it I’m walking on egg shells.

    1. Rowan*

      Can you throw in some flattering languages, like “Great minds think alike!” or something like that? Just for your own survival…

      On another note, he actually called you a “ball-buster”!?! That is way, way, way out of line.

      1. Liet-Kynes*

        Yeah, if you’re a female, calling you a ball-buster is a go straight to HR, do not pass GO card.

          1. Liet-Kynes*

            Oh. Oh my.

            Well, even so, I think it’d make sense to say, “I know you didn’t intend to cause offense, but calling me a ball-buster is pretty insulting to me, and I’d appreciate it if you characterized me differently.” Even if he’s got an inferiority complex, I think that’s where you stand up for yourself a little. You don’t need to do his emotional labor for him.

            1. High Fiber*

              Sorry, why is that phrase offensive? I never thought anything about it. Just thought he meant the way I am always “right.” I’m not of course, but he doesn’t contribute much and so naturally I have “all” the answers.

              It’s very laid back here and we curse and joke around a lot. His choice of language is for lack of education mostly.

              1. Liet-Kynes*

                It means you’re emasculating, domineering, and imperious in a way you’re not entitled to be. It carries the heavy connotation that you challenge his masculinity and rightful authority. It’s maybe a shade less offensive than just calling you a bitch, but that’s essentially what it means, with emasculating overtones. So yeah, misogynist and insulting.

                1. High Fiber*

                  Wow is this a geographic thing? We’re in NY and I never thought about this phrase being any worse than “tough cookie.”

                2. Liet-Kynes*

                  Honestly? Don’t think so. It’s a pretty universal meaning. Googling it, most of the first page of definitions are similar to the one I came up with off the cuff.

                3. Emi.*

                  Oy vey, I always thought it meant “hard worker,” as in “I’ve been busting my balls color-coordinating all these teapots.”

                4. Kimberlee, Esq.*

                  Eh, I personally wouldn’t put it anywhere _near_ being called a bitch, just because “ball-busting” is usually used a lot more jokingly. Not to say it’s not or can’t be misogynist or insulting, but I would read “Ugh, you’re really busting my balls here!” as a jokey way of saying “you’re holding me accountable for what we both know my job is.”

                5. Liet-Kynes*

                  Sometimes insults like this, or slurs like “gypped” can sort of drift away from their actual meaning and origin and become weirdly neutral.

                6. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                  Nooooo…. “ball buster” and “gypped” are NOT neutral. They are both offensive. You should stop using them.

                7. The New Wanderer*

                  @Emi – the expression I’ve heard in your context is “busting my butt”. Busting balls has a specific derogatory meaning and is almost always someone else (female) doing the busting.

                8. Thlayli*

                  I’m not American but I have watched a lot of American tv and I have definitely seen a lot of NY characters using the phrase “busting my balls” in a non-gendered way. Can’t remember if “ball-buster” is also used in a non-gendered way.

                  what is offensive and why it is offensive can vary geographically. High Fiber, you know your boss and you know the language used where you are. You’ve said he absolutely would use it towards a man so it seems unlikely he intended it as a sexist insult.

                  It’s certainly valuable to know that this phrase is used in a sexist way elsewhere, but unless you have another reason to believe he is being sexist, I don’t think you need to accuse him of being sexist or report him to anyone on the basis of one word that can mean different things.

              2. designbot*

                Using such a highly gendered term is a big red flag that he might be responding to you differently than he would a man exhibiting the same behavior. He’d certainly never use that term for a man, and there isn’t really an equivalent, mainly because the behaviors that make you a “ballbuster” aren’t seen as negative in men. You’re a ballbuster, but would a man be a prodigy? or a rockstar?

                1. High Fiber*

                  I disagree, he absolutely would use that with a man. In fact I’m sure I’ve heard many men say it of both sexes. I feel like it’s a universal term, I’ve never heard it used only about women like “bitch.”

                2. designbot*

                  I would say your office is using it in an unusual way then. It’s typically used in a way that turns something positive (competence! efficiency! drive!) into something negative (emasculation, assault). It takes the way you are and turns it into an attack on him–which from your initial question does seem to be an issue even if you don’t think the gender dynamic that phrase typically signals applies here.

                3. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  It’s a gendered, misogynistic term. designbot’s explanation of how it takes something positive and turns it into a negative is right on.

                4. zora*

                  Yeah, that’s weird if he really does use it with both genders. In that case, I guess you can leave it alone. But in my experience, it is a word I have only ever heard in reference to a woman and never to a man, so I would consider it sexist if I heard anyone say it at work and immediately take it up the chain.

                  But if you are sure it’s not gendered with him, then it’s up to you to let it go.

                5. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                  Really? He would use “ball buster” as a noun applied to men?

                  I have definitely heard applied to all genders as a verb (“Lee’s been busting my balls about that late report!”), but never as a noun (“Jim is such a ball buster!”).

                6. Fake Eleanor*

                  This is interesting, because my primary association with busting balls is GoodFellas, where there are two scenes in which one guy accuses another guy of busting his balls. (It does not go well for one of those ball-busters.)
                  (Note: I’m not arguing that “they say it all the time in GoodFellas!” is a good defense about office suitability.)
                  So I googled a few variations — “he’s a ballbuster,” “she’s a ballbuster,” “he’s a * ballbuster,” “she’s a * ballbuster.” And the phrase is … frequently used with both genders, but more often applied to dudes.
                  I don’t think it’s office-appropriate, and it’s definitely not a word I’d use, but I’d need more usage evidence before declaring it misogynistic instead of just crude.

              3. Rachel in NYC*

                The way he’s using it matters. If he says- you’ve really been busting your balls- that is totally different then if after you remind him of something him commenting “High Fiber, you are a total ball buster.” That said, how you take it matters. So you can just say- hey, just a heads up- it doesn’t bother me when you call me a ball buster- but someone else may take it the wrong way.

                1. zora*

                  Oh, good point. I’ve never heard it used that way, but that is different.

                  I have only ever heard it as “[Subject] is busting the balls of [Specific or general man].” And only ever referring to a woman.

                2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                  I mean, we probably shouldn’t be discussing our balls at (most) workplaces. But, yeah, the noun is far more offensive than the verb.

        2. JamieS*

          I’m not sure why whether or not High Fiber should escalate being called a ball-buster is dependent on her sex.

    2. Business Cat*

      I think the walking on eggshells might actually make it worse. You may have already tried this, but I think a direct, matter-of-fact tone and delivery is the best way to do this. Maybe also add a thanks at the end to make him feel looped in? Like this, “Got it! I arranged the teapots in size order and color-coordinated them as well. Thank you for checking in!” That way you’re not walking on eggshells *or* trying to massage his ego. You’re a) Responding to the action item, and b) Closing out the conversation politely and acknowledging the interaction. That extra “thanks!” at the end might assuage some of the lingering awkwardness.

      1. Business Cat*

        Oh wow, I missed the “ball buster” comment. I might be inclined to take that as a compliment, however, being one of those myself… :D

      2. KR*

        I like this. You don’t have to be like, “I already did that!” I feel like the “already” kind of makes it seem like you have a problem that he’s asking you to do it even though you already did it.

    3. hbc*

      Is it possible he misunderstands the term “ball buster”? I’ve heard people talk about busting their own balls to get something done, which lines up with the work ethic.

      Not that either way is great, but ball buster in the other sense is so negative that I probably wouldn’t use the same approach for both scenarios.

      2. High Fiber*

        I guess I’m misunderstanding the phrase! I thought it just meant giving him a hard time, something like “smarty pants,” I am a perfectionist. Does this actually mean something sexual?

        2. NaoNao*

          I don’t think it’s sexual per se, but it involves a sex organ so….
          Ball busting, to most people, means someone is overstepping their bounds and intimidating, mocking, or emasculating a *man*. This “someone” is almost always a woman; very rarely do you hear men call other men “ball busters”. Yes, a man can “bust [another man’s] balls” but this is a gendered slur kind of like when a drill sergeant yells “okay *ladies* let’s do laps!” to a group of men.
          It means, colloquially, that a man is “just trying to [do whatever]” and some woman somewhere is making him look bad, on purpose, in a rough, aggressive, masculine way. Like if a construction worker shouts at a woman and she yells back “do you kiss your mama with that mouth?”—she’s “busting his balls”. She stood up to him, called him out, embarrassed him in front of other men.

          It’s gendered and it’s sexist. It’s not sexual.

        3. Kimberlee, Esq.*

          Eh, I totally agree that its gendered but to me gendered =/= misogynist. Not appropriate for work, sure, but I’ve heard variations of ball-busting used by men and women talking to men and women. I don’t think it’s helpful to universalize it to “it’s only men saying it to women” when that’s not universally true.

        4. Rick Tq*

          I’ve lived in Boston, Chicago, Philly, and now LA so this is from a general viewpoint..

          Saying “I’m busting my balls here” or “You’re really busting your balls” means someone is working as hard as they can on this task, so to me it is positive.

          “Quit busting my balls” or “He’s a real ball buster” says you are making trouble for me out of proportion to the issue at hand so very negative, at least to me.

          Does your manager have any aviation background? Going “balls to the wall” means running full throttle/max performance for yet another positive connotation.

    4. Iris Eyes*

      I can think of two ways to go, perhaps saying “I though you might want it done that way, so while I was X I went ahead and did Y” OR you could try and address it from the direction of reinforcing that as the manager him trusting you to do your job is good management just like you trust him to handle the management aspects (dealing with other departments/hire ups, making sure you have the resources, providing a good environment, or whatever).

    5. AnotherHRPro*

      I have a similar situation. My boss is insecure and I have to be careful to not do things that she feels could de-position her. I know that she is threatened by me, so I make a concerted effort to make sure that she sees me as making her look better. If the focus is on how my work means she is doing a great job, she isn’t as threatened. Providing her compliments and telling her I did XYZ for her, openly sharing credit with her (even if she wasn’t involved) and building offer of what she says so she can think my ideas are actually her ideas. It can be annoying, but it makes my life easier.

      As for the “ball buster” comment, yes that is a sexist term but I know many people in corporate environments that use it in a non-gendered way (i.e., calling both men and women ball-busters). Really, when determining if the use of profanity and this type of comment is not cool is very much depended on how it is perceived by those involved. Are you offended by it? Does it bother you? If it does, you should say something. And even if you are not, you may want to say something like, “I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but I know that some people find that phrase offensive. I know you don’t mean it that way, but I thought you would want to know. I know I’ve said it in the past as well and now that I know it bothers some people I am trying to remove it from my vocabulary.”

      1. High Fiber*

        Yeah I can see it being annoying but I guess that was what I was originally asking. Ways to boost his ego. Changes my phrasing like Business Cat suggested.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          I am not sure that boosting his ego is going to fix your problem. Basically, he does not want to work and you do. You start massaging his ego and you will have to do that for the rest of your time there. He would feel better about himself if he applied himself more to his job. You can’t make him apply himself more.

          You can say things like “This is what you pay me for, Boss!” or “I am glad to be of help.”
          As far as “ball buster”, ask him about that. Tell him you are concerned for several reasons. Then listen to what he says. I am guessing but the sheer fact that you opened a discussion on it will cause him to stop using the term. He won’t want to keep having the discussion.

      2. Savannnah*

        I also have to do this with my boss, as he has 3 years in the field and I have 12, and I have to very careful about how to approach him with corrections or ideas on new projects. Group meetings are the worst because I will occasionally voice my opinions about the direction of the project if it does not meet industry standards and my boss will pipe in that he’s already approved it and let’s move on. Eventually he will have to correct it at some point and when that happens he gets turfy and withholds vital information about either meetings I should be at or future work projects. This continues until he calms down and I find opportunities to let him shine. It’s exhausting and annoying but as long as you are aware of your boss and their triggers, it’s manageable. To add a wrench to that dynamic his mentor in the field is my mother- so that makes for some political dancing as well.

  8. Detective Amy Santiago*

    This happened to me this week.
    (I shared it on Facebook, so I guess if anyone who knows me IRL reads AAM, they’ll know who I am)

    I was trying to call an associate and apparently we had a wrong number in our system. Dude who answered was like “what’s your name? you sound cute.” I said “I have work to do” and hung up.

    He CALLED BACK. I made [male coworker] answer. He asked “where’s that shorty who just called me? she sounds cute AF.” [male coworker] told him that he had no right to call here and talk that way.

      1. Nea*

        That is the perfect phrase for this kind of situation and I’m going to steal it.

        OP – OMG, I’m so glad that coworker had your back!

    3. Gingerblue*

      What the everlasting hell. Please, please report this to whoever is appropriate in his knucklehead’s chain of command.

      2. Detective Amy Santiago*

        And yes, I deleted the number from our system so this won’t happen again.

    4. Katelyn*

      O.O

      O.O !!

      (/picks jaw up from floor and wanders away baffled by the gumption some people have!)

        1. Thlayli*

          Amy was in the workplace. No reason to believe the guy she accidentally called was at work, it could easily have been his personal number.

    7. Epsilon Delta*

      Ok so I just took a mental inventory of my coworkers and figured out who I would ask to answer the phone for me if this ever happens. Unfortunately the one I think would shoot it down most effectively works from home a lot!

    8. spocklady*

      OH MY GOD. One of your own coworkers?!?!?!

      Sympathy to you (because seriously what even?!?!) and good for you for telling him off, and…solidarity maybe, as someone else who’s been on the other end of something like that [long story follows].

      Something kind of like this happened to me once — I worked as an admin at a place that provided court-mandated education, and part of my job was to call folks once we got their paperwork from various courts to get the process of signing up for a class started.

      I called the number on one of the forms and gave the standard spiel, which IIRC was just to say who I was and the company name and ask for the person whose name was on the paperwork (we didn’t want to embarrass people if someone else picked up their phone). The guy who answered told me he wasn’t [name] and I must have a wrong number. I double-checked the number with him and was getting ready to hang up when he said “you sound hot — you got a man?”

      I honestly don’t remember what I said, except I think it was something about apologizing again for having the wrong number and hanging up. He called back, with more of the same. I told him I was sorry we had inadvertently called the wrong number and I’d be making a note in the record, and I was going to consider the contact closed. Then I stared at the phone in disbelief for a minute before telling my coworker, “hey you will not BELIEVE what just happened.”

      1. spocklady*

        J/k, reading for comprehension. I missed the part where it wasn’t somebody at your company. I still think it’s awful that happened to you!

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          It actually sounds a lot like your story!

          Like… what do these guys think is going to happen? Has that ever really worked?

  9. Jessica*

    My last day is today at my job that I hate! I am so happy to be leaving! I have another job lined up and I hope I’ll be much happier at my new place. I did learn some things (life lessons) here that I will apply at my new job. But mostly I just feel so relieved to get out of this dysfunctional environment.

    1. NJ Anon*

      Me tooooooo! So happy not to have to deal with this place anymore! Doing yhe happy dance in my head all day!

    2. Fictional Butt*

      Another last day-er here! Although I’m kind of sad to be leaving this place. Not too sad to celebrate being done though!

  10. Savannnah*

    I have a question about sending in resumes and cover letters to companies with no open positions. My partner and I are moving across coasts for his job and I am going to have to look for a new one. I work in the global health field and would be applying to both educational institutes and non-profits. I’ve narrowed down the companies I would like to work for in the area and at the moment the top 3-5 do not currently have any openings. Should I wait to send my resume until a post opens up or send it ‘cold’? Besides recognizing a few names from conferences, I unfortunately don’t have much of a network cross coasts so am starting really at scratch 8 years into the field. We also are not moving until Jan 2018 which complicates things a bit.

    1. Eppie*

      I’d watch those 3-5 (and maybe) for the next few months for new openings, and then reconsider.

      1. JulieBulie*

        Agree. I would probably wait until August or September before sending a resume cold. It might be too early, at least in the health field, to send resumes for a currently nonexistent job that you can’t start until January anyway.

        Education is different, though, if they try to start people at the beginning of a semester (I know it depends on the position, so might not apply to you), so maybe it’s not too early to reach out to those.

    2. Emma*

      Does your field have a regional conference? If so, maybe you can attend that (hopefully) before you move, and perhaps network there.

    3. designbot*

      people you meet at conferences can be decent contacts. That’s how I got my current job, through a guy I met at a conference 5+ years prior.

    4. Chaordic One*

      This is one of those things that varies among employers. I don’t think it would hurt to send some letters of inquiry and copies of your resume, but like JulieBulie says, I’d wait until August or September before sending them out.

      My previous employer where I worked in HR never hired anyone who just sent in a resume and while we kept them on file, in the two years I worked in HR, no one ever looked at them. Ever. You HAD to apply for a specific open position and if you were rejected and wanted to apply for another position you had to start over from scratch.

      If, after you’ve moved, you see an advertisement for an open position at a company where you’ve previously sent a resume, apply for the job as if you’ve never previously sent them a resume.

  11. Susan*

    In my department of 12 teapot makers, we don’t have individual projects; we all work to fill all the teapot orders. Our managers are pretty hands-off when it comes to work distribution; as long as we fill all the orders on time, they don’t care who makes which teapots or how many they make. Some people take major advantage of this and spend half the day surfing the web while the people who take pride in their work pick up the slack. Management knows this but won’t do anything about the slackers.

    I recently figured out how to run a report in our order tracking system to show how many teapots each teapot maker makes, and it’s very telling. The top teapot makers make more than twice as many teapots as those with the lowest productivity.

    The caveat with this data is that some teapots are more complicated than others. You can make a basic teapot in about 1 minute, or a premium teapot in 10-20 minutes, but you could spend an hour or more on a custom teapot, so the number of teapots you make in a given day doesn’t necessarily prove anything. We all have to make some basic, premium, and custom teapots, though, and I think over the course of a month or a year, each person’s proportion of basic/premium/custom teapots evens out, so the total number of teapots is probably a valid measure of productivity.

    I don’t think anyone else in the department (including the managers) knows how to get this data from the order tracking system. The data shows that I am, by far, the most productive teapot maker in the department. I don’t think this would surprise anyone because I am known for being a hard worker, but I’m not sure they know the magnitude of the gap between different teapot makers’ productivity, and I feel compelled to find a way to use this information. I’m not sure how it would look if I went to management with data that just happens to show that I am the best. I’ve thought about anonymously saving the report to the shared drive where I think they would see it. I’ve also thought about removing the names from the report, so it shows (without naming names) that some people do much more work than others, and perhaps it would prompt management to run the report themselves and see who is and isn’t pulling their weight. I’ve thought about saving the report (with or without names) to the shared drive in a folder where I know the other teapot makers would see it, and maybe it would prompt the less productive people to work harder. Or maybe it would just cause unnecessary drama and I’d be better off keeping it to myself?

    1. Sadsack*

      Maybe if you are inclined to ask for a raise or promotion in the future, then you can present a report in support if it. You wouldn’t be saying look how poorly everyone else does, but you’d be highlighting your output over all and on more complex projects.

    2. Marketing LadyPA*

      What is your point in wanting to share this information? Are you trying to get a raise?

      1. Susan*

        Well, I’d like to get a raise! And I think that since I am doing more than twice as much work as some of my coworkers who are getting paid about the same, I deserve one. Unfortunately, the only time we ever get raises here are during annual performance reviews (it is possible to get an off-cycle raise, but the manager really has to push hard for it and expend political capital to get it approved, and I know my manager isn’t likely to do that), so what I need is a good performance review to get a good raise.

        I’d also like management to do some actual managing and get the slackers to do more work and less web surfing.

    3. Cambridge Comma*

      I would save it for your next performance review.
      Generally, if I find myself coming up with complex ways of making something happen (in your case, that someone sees the report) it’s a pretty good sign that I know deep down iI shouldn’t do it.

      1. Susan*

        The way our performance reviews work around here, management gets together and decides on everyone’s ratings and raises, and then they meet with each individual employee to give us our reviews. The reviews are already finalized by the time we get them, so if I wait until my review to show management this data, it will not affect my review. If I want them to consider this information for my review, they have to see it before they get together to decide on ratings. So should I just randomly e-mail them the report or what?

        1. KellyK*

          If you know about when performance reviews are coming up, you can email it to them in advance. Let them know that you’d like them to consider your productivity information when they’re considering this year’s raises. I’d go a couple months ahead of review time to give them a chance to include that info in their decision, because they probably aren’t announcing to you exactly when they’re meeting to figure out raises.

          1. Susan*

            Yeah, they are really pretty secretive about the whole process. I know the general time of year the reviews are happening, but I usually don’t hear anything until my manager calls and says, “Come to my office in 20 minutes for your review.”

            I’m just afraid it will look kind of arrogant to send them some data, out of the blue, that shows how much more work I do than anyone else. I’m also wondering if they’d be skeptical or suspicious if the data that I’m giving them just happens to show that I’m the best. I could easily show them how to run this report themselves so they can confirm that my data is valid, but I’m not sure what they’d think if I just sent them the data.

            1. TCO*

              Your management doesn’t sound great. It might be time to get your high-performing self a new job on a high-performing team.

            2. Mints*

              I’d send them the data, and also send instructions. Like maybe send a chart of the past year, with like “If you’re interested in looking at other time periods…” And just send it a couple months before the reviews usually are like “I know reviews are usually in the fall, and I wanted to send you this information about my performance ahead of time”

              You’re the best on your team! You deserve recognition

            3. designbot*

              If you know that reviews are going to be in April or May and that they generally discuss them in the weeks leading up to that, then I’d send it in early to mid March and say something like, “I wanted to get this information in front of you as you prepare for annual reviews because I think it shows my value to the team very clearly and I hope you’ll take it into consideration when discussing compensation. I have the impression that this data may not have been taken into consideration in the past but it’s surprisingly easy to pull up.” That’s not out of the blue since you’re contextualizing it as prep work for annual reviews, and it invites them to ask how you found it without making the assumption that they don’t know what you know.

        2. College Career Counselor*

          If you know the date of your upcoming review, I would think you could send the report to your manager and say, “I’d like you to have this information ahead of the review process so you have a better understanding of my work output.” If you’d like to be more proactive than that, you could say something like, “I know reviews are coming up shortly, and I’d like to talk to you about my performance in the past year. I’ve taken the liberty of gathering some data about my work output. Can we set up a time to meet?”

    4. TheAssistant*

      I was in a similar situation at my last job. While no one was slacking per se, I kept data that showed I was outperforming my team by a landslide.

      I had regular 1x1s with my immediate supervisor, who was wonderful but didn’t have a lot of power. I used this data in one to leverage a flex time request (approved) and work from home (denied). I also used this for annual performance reviews/raise conversations – I came in at the higher end of the spectrum in terms of salary, but used productivity to justify continued raises. I also got first choice of special projects.

      Ultimately, while my boss couldn’t do much to even things out for me, it ended up in higher-quality work and some perks.

      I would not save the report anonymously – anonymous doesn’t usually end well, and won’t get you the results you want. Do you have regular check-ins with your supervisor? That would be a good time to discuss your findings and any outcomes you’d like. I feel like “getting others to work harder” isn’t a reasonable outcome , but maybe have your pick of cool special projects, negotiating a raise, or other short- and long-term outcomes are possible. If you don’t have regular check-ins, maybe it would be good to schedule a meeting with your boss to talk about departmental productivity and the outcomes you’d like to see.

      Good luck! At the very least, you have some excellent resume bullet points.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      Unless your management is terrible, I’d bet that they are tracking individual productivity. But they will likely be looking at more than just productivity, they may consider quality, thoroughness, QA skills, all sorts of factors that go into the value of an employee.
      I’m a report builder and I’ve had folks try to build reports for “gotcha” purposes and they miss chunks of information, so you would need to be 100% sure that your report is accurate. It’s possible you are missing a category or it’s possible that other workers code their work in a different method.
      If you want to do anything with the data, you should talk directly with your management. Purposefully leaving a report in a public folder for others to see would just cause drama. But you’ll need to decide what outcome you want. Like Sadsack suggests, if you want a raise or promotion, that would be a logical place to bring the information. Good luck!

      1. Susan*

        Well, my management is terrible, and I don’t think they are tracking individual productivity in any clearly quantifiable way. They’re not around much, so they mainly pay attention only when there are problems — like missing a deadline on an order, or when an order is wrong. I’m sure they have a general sense of who the more productive and less productive workers are, but I’m not sure they have a clue how much more productive some people are than others. It’s possible that they think I only make, say, 25% more teapots than the slackers, and would be shocked to find out that I actually make more than twice as many teapots as most people.

        Obviously productivity is not the only measure by which we are rated, but it hugely important in our line of work, and really the main differentiation between good performers and poor performers. There’s not really a range in quality; there are specifications for every teapot, so we either make it correctly or incorrectly (and it’s very rare for anyone to make one incorrectly).

    6. S-Mart*

      I wouldn’t put it somewhere and expect people to see it, read it, and take away what you want from it. You lose control of the message, and the likelihood of it being seen and acted on by/how you’re hoping is pretty low (people won’t see it, will see the file but not read it, will read it but take no/different action, etc.).

      What it does sound like is compelling evidence to put forth to your boss as part of your next ‘I deserve a raise’ discussion.

    7. TCO*

      What about using only the data about your own performance, maybe in your next performance review? You could say something like, “I figured out how to run reports in our system, and I used that to start tracking my own performance. Over the last six months I’ve completed an average of 15 teapots a day, which is 15% of the team’s total output.”

      If you use a percentage, it can subtly highlight that you complete a disproportionate share of the work, while still keeping the focus on your own performance and not pointing fingers at anyone else in particular. A good manager would look further into this information and run some reports of her own. However, given that your management doesn’t sound interested in addressing performance disparities, they might not do anything. (In which case your performance stats could look great when you update your resume…)

        1. TCO*

          Maybe “Highest-producing team member, with completion rates 17% above team average”?

  12. Anon Anon*

    Which job search tools do you use when looking for a job? I’m struggling with our HR department right now, as they only want to post a position I’m recruiting for on Careerbuilder. I’ve suggested posting on Indeed, Ziprecruiter, and our industry specific job board, but I don’t really know which websites are used the most by job seekers these days.

    1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      As a job seeker, I’ve used Indeed A LOT. It’s always open on my phone, and I browse through postings on my breaks.

    3. Rainy, PI*

      I hear people talk about Indeed a lot, and in my area a lot of jobs are posted on LinkedIn apparently.

      The industry specific job board/s is/are likely to yield the most results, I would think, especially if it’s a bit niche.

    4. Jimbo*

      Indeed, Glassdoor, LinkedIn Jobs, Idealist and niche job boards in my field. I have email alerts set for these platforms that regularly email me job listings that fit my criteria

    5. TheAssistant*

      I use LinkedIn a lot. Their algorithm for feeding you jobs gets really on point the more you use the search function. It’s how I found my current (amazing) position.

    7. Kinsley M.*

      We use LinkedIn, and our jobs are posted on our careers page of our website too. That’s it. I wish we’d use ZipRecruiter and industry specific job boards too. I don’t actually like Indeed/Monster/Career Builder. I find it too hard to weed through all the sales positions posing as what I actually want. GlassDoor has upped their game as well.

      1. Anon Anon*

        I’m trying to convince HR that Careerbuilder isn’t cutting it anymore. Our applicant pools aren’t very good. Right now I’m recruiting for a mid-level manager position and in the two weeks the position has been posted, we’ve gotten less than 15 applications and there is not one of them that merits an interview. So I feel like we need to cast a larger net.

    10. Fictional Butt*

      When I was job-searching, I pretty much only used Indeed, but that was because I didn’t have a clear idea of what kind of job/industry I was looking for. I would definitely use the industry-specific job board as well.

    12. Jennifer's Thneed Needs a Job*

      I checked out Careerbuilder recently after seeing it mentioned here, and I was really disappointed. For the record, I work as a technical writer.

      I used to use DICE and loved it, but it’s changed over the years, plus some of their searching algorithms are flaky and making reports doesn’t change anything. Example: get different results when searching by city name and by zip code in that same city.

      Nowadays, I use Indeed and Craigslist. (And don’t let anyone tell you there’s no such person as Craig. They’re cynical and wrong. His last name is Newmark.)

      What’s up with your HR? Is it a matter of having a contract with Careerbuilder and not wanting to spend money elsewhere? Maybe they’d be willing to try another board once, as an experiment?

      1. Anon Anon*

        It’s about the money. They don’t want to spend money on more than one job board, and the argument is that Careerbuilder also populates other job boards so we shouldn’t need to post it in more than one place.

        From my point of view it’s smarter to spend an extra few hundred dollars now to find the right person. Seems like a very small amount of money in the whole scheme of things.

    13. Workaholic*

      When randomly seeking jobs I’ve used Indeed and Craigslist. The company I used to work for only advertised jobs through Craigslist.

    14. Sorgatani*

      I mostly use Indeed, but sometimes Seek.
      Occasionally I even check the local newspaper.

  13. writelhd*

    Stuck in an unproductive mental loop about management/interpersonal work situations.

    My job is hugely nebulous by nature, and many of my assignments depend on influencing sideways, upwards, and downwards within various departments in the company, while having no direct reports myself. It’s a tiring sea to navigate, at times. Right now I have two problems. One, a co-worker for whatever is giving me clear ice treatment when he used to be friendly, which has baffled me for months. This week it culminated in him ignoring my request for him to do something, so now it transfers from “annoying interpersonal inconvenience” to “affects our working relationship.” And my other problem is a coworker who constantly bullies his coworkers, usually in so subtle a way as to be difficult to call out, and he has his manager’s friendship (and makes sure everybody knows it) to the point where I’m sure said manager will not take complaints about small subtle things very well. I found out today that he bullied some staff that I’d been training (they’re still not my direct reports, though)–who saw through it and just rolled their eyes and ignored it–but it still irks me on their behalf.

    I end up mentally stuck on these things, in a loop of “should I do something/what can I do, I don’t manage these people/am I a bad manager because I’m at a loss for how to address this/But I’m not really a manager of anybody but myself/these people really make me angry but their transgressions are so small and subtle I should just focus on something else/but I’m stuck on my anger and can’t focus/because I’m stuck on this I’m clearly terrible at being professional/much of my work requires involves influencing people so if I feel like I can’t effectively influence them I’m not getting my work done/focusing on this just makes it worse, I need to stop thinking about it and get work done…bleh.

    Any tricks for breaking that mental cycle?

    1. J.B.*

      It’s not you, it’s them. Seriously if you aren’t getting the support to do these things they are expecting something no one can really deliver. The only recommendation I can make is if there is someone senior who you trust, go talk to them for ideas and strategies. Not from a manager fix this perspective but how can I navigate this best perspective.

    2. over educated*

      No tips for your specific situation, just empathy. Your first sentence describing your job is the most spot-on match for mine, and it can be really really tough to have to make things happen by influencing people you don’t have authority over. I wouldn’t say it’s being set up for failure, but it’s a challenge that has made me redefine my sense of what “success” can look like in this position. Good luck.

      1. writelhd*

        Thanks for the commiseration. Things like “set up to fail” (or at least burn out) sometimes come into my mind but I do I have one of the most awesome, supportive bosses ever who, though he’s got pretty darn high expectations, is a huge part of what makes my job great and the hard parts bearable. I can and have talked thru troubles with him before–my trouble there is a need to be wary of oversharing (I am quite unshy about being vulnerable and “talking feelings” with people I trust in my personal life, and my complete and immense professional trust in my boss puts me at risk for viewing him the same way I’d view a friend in that regard) and until now I’ve been hesitant to do it with such specificity (meaning, debriefing exactly the situation around Bob Sure Seems to Hate Me and Jane Told me That Wakeen told her this Super Unhelpful Kind of Bullying Thing…sort of a fear of feeling like a tattle tale or looking unable to deal with minor things myself.

    3. designbot*

      My tip would be to turn around your thinking about these people not being your direct reports. It sounds like you’re looking at that as a handicap, but if you chose to speak up about your second issue or anything that arises of a similar nature you could frame it as how you’re uniquely positioned to see issues because you work across so many different teams with people at different levels.
      As to the first issue, I would speak with the coworker directly about it. You don’t need him to like you, but you need him to collaborate with you and if there’s an issue getting in the way of that he should get it out in the open so that y’all can resolve it.

    4. Jules the Third*

      To break the cycle of thinking, mindfulness / meditation works for some:
      RECOGNIZE you’re having stressful feelings
      ALLOW the feelings to happen. Pause to let the thoughts and feelings happen
      INVESTIGATE the feelings, being kind to yourself. Labeling the feelings can help: Anxiety. Insecurity. Frustration. Anger
      NON-IDENTIFICATION with the feelings – ie, not going to the ‘I am a bad manager’ place.
      Google mindfulness and RAIN and you’ll get more details.

      Mindfulness helps me a little, but I am a very solution-oriented person, so what would make *me* feel better is coming up with some solutions. Here’s the ones I’d try for your situations.
      1) Icy Bob – I’d make a time to talk to him, saying, ‘I’ve noticed a change in our relationship. Has something happened?’ and listening thoughtfully. My goal would be to get to a good working relationship, so if he was offended, I’d give a sincere apology EVEN IF I didn’t see my actions as offensive. I *might* try to correct a true misunderstanding, but I’d focus hard on putting it as my error. Because I don’t have ego points to score, or a social relationship to grow, I just want stuff to work. Sometimes the influencing works because you’re the expert, but sometimes an expert admitting a mistake is disarming.
      2) Bully Bill – when you’re feeling calm, talk to your boss about it and get his advice on whether there’s anything you can or should do. Give concrete examples of phrases he’s said, and why it bothers you (ieg “Bill says Arya’s dumb. ‘dumb’ insults her rather than constructively addressing whatever is happening’). Focus on his unprofessionalism and work impact (eg, calling Arya dumb means he stops training her), write a list beforehand – that will help you stay focused and not do too much oversharing. MAYBE have an idea of what could be done (a team meeting on workplace courtesy or diversity? Coaching on ‘responding to unprofessional behavior’ for some of his regular victims?) DO NOT be apologetic for going to your boss. DO accept that if your boss says there’s nothing you can do, then there’s nothing you can do. Accept that the first time he says it.

      Whatever path you take, good luck!

  14. LizB*

    I just had the best vacation I’ve had probably in my entire life (will talk more in the weekend thread), and now I’m back at work for a leisurely half-day of catching up on emails and making sure nothing imploded in my absence. I feel more relaxed and happy than I have in… months? Years? Protip: if you have PTO, take it and use it for something just for yourself once in a while. It’s magical.

    1. Rainy, PI*

      All my vacation time for the last six months has been for weddings :/ I’m hoping we can do a weekend trip or something at the end of summer, because weddings (either I or my boyfriend were in all three) are not really a vacation for anyone involved!

    3. MechanicalPencil*

      I’ve reached that point where I’m eyeballing my PTO and wondering what to do with it. Caveat is that I don’t have a ton accrued and my finances aren’t at a point where I feel comfortable going somewhere, which is what I’d like. Hearing that it was beneficial gives me hope though. Look forward to your weekend post.

      1. Katelyn*

        I’ve had a good deal of luck doing “staycations” in my own city. I live in a large one, so I’ve decided to see what the recommendations are for tourists and try them. The hop-on-hop-off city tours really give you a different perspective of where you live, and can have discounts for other attractions in the area too.

      2. tiny temping teapot*

        Not just staycations – but if you can afford, even staying at a nice hotel for a weekend or four days can be super relaxing.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      Ha, this is the exact reason I took such a long trip to the UK in 2014 (nearly three weeks). I desperately needed enough time to truly wind down, and when I came back–barring some travel snafus–I felt amazing. Though I did get thoroughly spoiled, being able to use public transport to get around; driving to work again had become intensely annoying.

      Before that trip, the longest PTO break I’d ever had was a five-day staycation. The rest of the time I was tacking personal days onto holiday weekends, in order to visit a long-distance SO. Just when I would start to relax, it was time to come back. :(

  15. Giles*

    This came up yesterday in the “traumatic company” thread – if someone is on the clock, at their desk, from 7:30-5 (minus hour lunch), and they are only supposed to work 8 hours that day, is that .5 of overtime from a legal standpoint – or should one just not bother reporting that .5 on their timesheet because they spent an hour somewhere in that day on AAM or whatever? I frequently just “donate” my extra time because I know not all 8 hours was actual productive time, but now I’m wondering if that’s the right thing to do.

    1. fposte*

      Assuming you’re a non-exempt employee (you are, right?), you should be paid for the hours you’re at work, so that’s an 8.5 hour day. However, in most jurisdictions that doesn’t get you OT–you have to be over 40 hours for the week, not over 8 hours for the day.

        1. fposte*

          I’m not sure what you mean by “basic schedule” there–can you explain? If you mean you don’t go over 40 in a week, then in most jurisdictions you’re not entitled to OT.

          1. ssbb*

            I think Giles is talking about being at work but not actively working. (Like surfing the internet when things are slow or for a break or whatever.)

            1. fposte*

              I understand that Giles isn’t working every hour of the 40; I’m trying to figure out if she’s *at work* for more than 40 per week.

              1. Giles*

                I’m at the office more than 40 sometimes, but not actively working every hour of that 40, if that makes sense – productively working.

              1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                How long are the breaks? Under federal law, breaks that last less than 20 minutes are considered part of your work day and must be paid.

                2. Giles*

                  I haven’t timed them, honestly. I’m sure I’ve been on AAM (for example) longer than that on some days because it’s slow, but shorter than that on others.

                3. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  Well, that’s the answer — it depends on how long they are. It also depends on whether they’re truly breaks — are you genuinely doing no work? Or are you sort of surfing the internet while taking the occasional call and responding to emails? If it’s the latter, it’s work time. Possibly fairly unproductive work time that your employer wouldn’t be thrilled about (or maybe wouldn’t care; depends on the context), but work time that must be paid nonetheless.

                4. KellyK*

                  The concept of “Engaged to wait” might come in here too. If you’re checking email or AAM on your phone while your computer loads up, that’s work time. If you’re waiting for work to do, that *might* count. I think it gets really fuzzy here and is probably a question for an employment lawyer, but if you’re available to do work and there just isn’t anything for you, that doesn’t necessarily count as a break.

                5. Natalie*

                  @ Kelly, IIRC another factor is whether you are free to leave. So if you are expected to stay on the premises while you wait for work, that is paid work time even if you are doing no actual work.

    2. Friday*

      It’s OT! Don’t donate that; the company legally owes it to you. Ask your boss that you just realized that you are owed this and what does she want you to do to keep the company in the clear regarding payroll laws. Either your hours adjust so you only work 40/week or you start getting the OT that is owed to you.

      1. Cyberspace Dreamer*

        Well . . . . .
        This reminds me of good friend of mine who was suspended for a week without pay for working “un-authorized” overtime.

        This is IT and he stayed after for about 5 minutes to wrap up his workday. He was on vacation the next day which was a Friday. The then boss asked his co-worker if Fergus stayed past 5pm last Thursday? He said yes and she said “I got him!!”

        He comes in Monday and they take his phone and his badge suspend him for a week without pay for “abusing lunch breaks” and “working unauthorized overtime”. I still have a copy of his write up. He never reported any overtime, nobody ran for the elevators at exactly 5pm and he never was counseled or warned about any voilations. It was utterly ridiculous and HR signed off on it. I resigned a week later for other reasons involving that same manager.

        1. Susan*

          Wow, for staying 5 minutes late? That’s pretty ridiculous (unless he was trying to get overtime pay for staying 5 minutes late, but if I understand correctly, that 5 minutes was “donated”). Most places round to the nearest 15 minutes, so 5 minutes should really be considered de minimis.

          1. Cyberspace Dreamer*

            Oh yes. It was a ridiculous time in some respects. A memo was sent out the day he was on vacation outlining a bunch of new rules. We both believe they were trying to get him to quit. This manager later was planning to fire him simply because another employee was giving them bad intel about many of us, but Fergus’ direct manager found out and proved that Fergus was doing a great job. I never met him in person, but did send him a thank you for holding his ground and doing the right thing. (He would get pushed out some time later though) So there you go. Fergus is still there though as well as the person who betrayed him. They really like this person and keep protecting that individual.

            On his write up it was said that his violations “caused hardship to the company”
            For what? Giving them a free 5 minutes? He was suspended and the department was not informed. Anyone waiting on work he was handling had to wait until he returned. The team was one person short. That was a real hardship. HR signed off on it, the executives and commissioners were aware of it and did nothing.
            I guess it was one of those “needs of the many” things we always hear about.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Ugh. In retailing jobs in my state one minute over is right up there with a felony charge in county court. Management will make your life miserable over that one minute.
            The reason behind it is the DOL is on their case about working off the clock and OT pay. When the DOL steps in crap rolls down hill. Maybe that is what is going on here.

    3. attornaut*

      You can’t really decide to “donate” time to your employer; either you are getting paid correctly under the law, or you are putting your employer in a position to be violating the law–a position they may well be quite unhappy with!

      I would record your correct hours, at all times, and then deal with management on adjusting your schedule to avoid overtime or getting paid overtime. But “donating” a potential legal violation isn’t a gift to you or your employer.

  16. Folklorist*

    It’s your sort-of-kind-of-not-really-weekly ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST! Go do something that you’ve been putting off, something that’s been eating at your soul, and come back and brag about it!

    I’m coming off a few days of vacation grogginess and slowly shaping myself up to work a long conference next week, including putting together schedules and travel expense reports–all the boring administrative stuff that I usually try to avoid. Oh, and an invoice that I keep forgetting about. Right. That.

  17. KatieKate*

    Nothing is happening at work today because two babies were brought in :D

    And it’s even better because I just finished running a two -day program that went really well so babies are my reward. Good day!!!

    1. LizB*

      Last week my boss brought in her baby for a little while and my coworker and I got NOTHING done for an hour because we were in full baby playtime mode. It was the best.

    4. Sparkly Librarian*

      At work yesterday I got to hold a 6-month-old, uh, tiny chocolate teapot. Best perk of the job!

  18. katie*

    I’ve just accepted an offer from a new company, but they are being super slow with the paperwork (they have been slow with the whole process). My current job is moving ahead with me on a new project, one that will be intensive for the next few months and will be my sole responsibility. Starting the project and then giving notice a week or 2 in will screw them over. But I don’t have a clean offer yet (offer is contingent on background check). Would you tell your current boss that you are leaving? I’m not worried about the background check, I know I’ll pass. My current boss is a good guy, he won’t fire me on the spot. I’m just a nervous person and usually like to wait until everything is perfect prior to giving notice.

    1. Rainy, PI*

      I was just in this spot, and I gave notice, but there’s one major difference:

      The boss I gave notice to was my “new” boss for my “old” job, because my old director hired me for a new job to keep me in the department when it was announced that my grant was being moved.

      There is a major project due in 50 days that ordinarily I’d already be working on, but new boss said he’s fine doing it (I wanted it on my CV!!), so at this point I’m just attempting to document my processes and I’m going to hand my files etc over, help with transition (my director is very generous), and then sit back and watch what happens.

      In your situation I think I’d wait. Worry about yourself, not the project.

    2. KellyK*

      I think it really depends. The first thing I would do is ask your new company for a timeframe on the background check. They may not know exactly, but they should have an idea if it’s going to be closer to a week, a month, or six months. You can also check with them on notice, especially if the notice you want to give is contingent on whether you’ve started the big project or not. If you think it will come through before the point where you’d want to give notice to avoid screwing over your company, you can wait a bit.

      If that point comes and goes, or if they don’t really know, that makes it harder. If you really trust your boss not to screw you over, you can tell him that you have an almost final offer and should be leaving in the next month or two (or whatever you reasonably think the timeframe is), depending on how long their background check process takes. Because of the intense project, you want to minimize the effect of your leaving, so you’d like to talk about whether it makes more sense to put someone else on the project, postpone the project, or have you start it but keep really good notes for the next person, or something else.

      One thing to keep in mind is that an offer is never final until it’s final. It’s not *likely* that something drastic will change with the new company during the background check process, or that someone who shares your name knocked over a bank since the last time you had a background check, but it’s worth considering what would happen with your current job if you had to say, “Oops, the new offer disappeared.”

  19. moving up?*

    I should’ve added my most recent example to Alison’s question about how a toxic work environment warps your thinking, because I’m dealing with it now — TEN YEARS after the fact.

    I’m currently applying for an internal leadership position. It’s far enough above my current role that I have to apply for the job, rather than just be promoted. And it’s being listed externally. (Which I hate, and don’t even get me started.) I’m having massive, massive anxiety about putting together my resume and cover letter. Never mind the fact that I’ve been groomed for the position and I’m currently doing it in an interim capacity. I have a huge fear that this is the point where I’m going to hear that everyone hates me and I’m not cut out for the job. Basically, if I don’t get this, my career at this organization is pretty much done, or I’ll have to massively redefine my role.

    And why do I feel this way? Because 10 years ago, as a naive 25-year-old in an extremely toxic environment, I was in this same position. I was doing the role as an interim and I applied for the permanent position. Not only did I not get the job, but I got the same freaking form letter as every other rejected candidate, with not so much as a word from my evil boss. She hired someone older, with more experience. That person lasted all of three months before deciding to resign because the expectations were so out of whack. Then I held the interim role again, only this time I was smart enough NOT to apply and started looking for a better job.

    Man, that messed me up for awhile — and it’s messing with me today. Would love some advice on getting past my fears and anxiety about applying for an interim position, which kept me up until midnight last night.

    1. CMDRBNA*

      Job searching/resumes/submitting applications is a huge trigger for me. Not even kidding. It makes my depression and anxiety spike, I start having trouble sleeping, I start having suicidal ideation – it’s a massive trigger to my work-related PTSD.

      Captain Awkward has some helpful advice about how to deal with this. I think a big part of it is acknowledging that it’s a legitimate trigger and your feelings are legitimate, and working on some strategies to combat it because unfortunately it’s an unavoidable part of job searching.

    2. Mouse*

      I don’t have advice, but I really relate to this! A similar thing happened to me about a year ago and now I have really awful job app anxiety. I end up not applying to a lot of great jobs because I get too anxious. I haven’t really figured out how to get over it yet, so I’ll be interested to read the advice you get here!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Sometimes we have to walk through the center of the fire to get out of the fire.
      What this means to me, in order to overcome something that caused me great distress in the past I have to go through a similar situation again and wait for the outcome on the new situation.

      Understand that fear/anxiety are just emotions. We are allowed to feel whatever we feel. Also understand that you are applying any way IN SPITE of this tidal wave of emotions. This means that 50% of your problem is solved. The biggest concern would be if you allowed your fear to stop you from applying, that means your fear now has power. By applying you take back your power instead of giving it to your fear.

      Second thought to contemplate: just as you want a fair shot at this job, you need to give your boss (or other decision makers) a fair shot too. This means you can’t randomly decide that everyone is like your old boss. These are new people and they deserve a chance from you to prove themselves as fair-minded people.

      Practical suggestions:
      Self-care, self-care, self-care. Eat well, rest, hydrate, exercise. Keep it simple so that you do each of these. Maybe the best you can do is a 15 minute walk once a day. Get there, make that happen.

      Self-talk. Contradict yourself constantly. When the fear comes up, tell the fear, “That was in the past and that is not happening any more. This is a clean slate with new people and different setting.”

      Self-respect. You know, it’s one thing when people disrespect us. It’s a whole bigger issue if we disrespect ourselves. By applying you are saying, “Wait. NO. I BELIEVE in me. I am not going to think about what air-head boss did ten years ago. I believe I can do this and that is everything I need to know right there.” Understand that pressing forward is a show of self-respect. No one can give us self-respect that is a do it ourselves thing. And sometimes that is not with out pain, which goes back to good self-care that is another way to show ourselves our own self-respect. And the investment in good self-care helps to fortify us to face our monsters and push through that pain.

      1. Panda Bandit*

        This is really excellent advice. I have to face some things that terrify me in the near future and I will remember what you said.

  20. AP*

    Question about freelance work and rates. I have a full time job in marketing/social media, and sort of stumbled into a freelance opportunity a little over six months. A friend recommended me to someone, we met and she liked my pitch, so I started working with her company. She manages a successful business that is happy to pay my established rate and it’s been great. This past weekend she mentioned my name to a friend of hers who owns a small, independent business and is looking for freelance social media planning and execution. I met with him, and he has a ton of ideas, but expressed that he really wants help focusing the marketing effort and business expansion direction. It’s going to be a lot of work, but that’s an area I’m pretty strong in, and I think I can offer a lot. However, it’s a really small business. I gave him my rate card with my usual rate, but I know how much this guy charges for services and my rate seems high. I now feel kind of… guilty? Though I also realize that it’s a big lift and I don’t have unlimited time, so I really wouldn’t want to take the client on for less. I guess my question is: should I go back and talk about lowering the rate, or is this just a part of freelancing? I feel weird about it.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      If you wouldn’t want to take the client on for less, focus on that and don’t worry about it. You’re actually not doing him any favors if you suggest a rate you wouldn’t be happy doing the work at, since that’s the kind of thing that leads to all kinds of problems (pulling out early, giving him short-shrift on your time since he’s paying less, etc.). You were up-front with him about what your services cost. It’s okay if it’s out of his budget; that sometimes happens. You are not locking him out of marketing help forever; he can presumably look for someone who’s cheaper.

      1. AP*

        That’s a really good point, especially the potential pitfalls of quoting a rate I wouldn’t be happy with. And you’re right- he can totally find someone else if my rate doesn’t work for him. Thank you!

    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      Also, a small business might need a written plan and guidelines more than a full-time social media person. If they’re going to operate on a shoestring, they’ll probably try to do it themselves as much as possible, so maybe just work up a plan, some sample posts/tweets, and a schedule? Like visiting a financial planner to establish a game plan rather than letting them manage your money. Maybe you can write up with a basic plan that they can implement, one that they can afford to pay you for at your current rate, and then do a couple of hours every week/month as a check-in/tune up?

      1. AP*

        I think that’s a really good idea, especially if he comes back and is looking to negotiate. Plus, it’ll get them started and give them the ability to see the return on investment.

    3. Fictional Butt*

      Not to paraphrase the terrible boss from yesterday’s letter, but: don’t negotiate with yourself! As the Cosmic Avenger says, you might want to start brainstorming ideas of what you can offer them for a lower cost, but don’t proactively lower your rates just because you think they might not be able to afford it. Let them be the ones to start that conversation.

      1. AP*

        Hah, thanks! It is good to have ideas on what my next move could be if he wants to negotiate, but you’re totally right! I gotta stand by my rate.

    4. Koko*

      I’ve dealt with this a lot as a freelance designer, and here’s my advice…sometimes it can be a good idea to go for a lower rate (but I agree you still have to be happy enough to do the work at the new rate) to get your name out there and more referrals. I almost entirely rely on referrals from clients, and industry friends, etc. I do charge different rates depending on the size of the business, my interest in the project, and most importantly to me, how that project would help me out, but I also have a rate I would never go below, regardless of who is asking.

      But what you’re asking specifically here, I would not go ahead and tell them you are willing to go for a lower rate until/if they say it’s a little high for them. I always stand by my first rate with a client, and do not negotiate, so I think it’s important getting it right the first time.

      1. AP*

        I’m thinking that some of it may be me not really know what getting it right the first time would look like. I kinda just came up with a number that seemed reasonable to me (based on a convo with a full-time freelance buddy who gave me some estimates) when I got the first gig, and am just running with that without knowing much about the actual cost of such services in my area. Might be a good idea to do some research.

  21. Persephone Mulberry*

    High/low of the week: I sent off an application last Friday – cover letter, resume and two writing samples, which I agonized over forever – and got a response back this week that they LOVE my experience and writing style and my resume is on the top of the stack for an interview…but the position is being put on hold. So close, yet so far!

    2. Catty Hack*

      :: hugs for you ::

      If it makes you feel better, this was me about six months back. Company loved my resume, I think I did really well in the interview and I got really positive feedback on writing samples aaaaannnnnddddd then a hiring freeze got announced.

  22. Not Today Satan*

    I’m supervising people for the first time in my career and I pretty much hate it. The people I supervise are in the type of position where they need to be here for specific times, follow specific rules, etc. and staying on top of them sucks. The worst part is, my manager kind of micromanages so I basically have zero authority when it comes to setting priorities or rules for my team. I’m so frustrated.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      If you have no authority then there is no point to you doing the job.
      I have said that to bosses in the past. If you want me to do the job then cut me the slack to do it. Tell me what you want over all and then let me do it. Otherwise there is no point to having me as the middleman.

      Yeah, with this setting most people would not want to manage other people.

      You might point out to your boss that riding people hard is not going to make them conform if they don’t want to conform. What will happen is the good people will leave and you will be stuck with all the low performers.

  23. AliceBD*

    How do I let go of thinking of a position?

    Most of the time I’m not super excited about positions I’ve applied for or interviewed for. It’s usually no big deal to put them out of my mind and focus on other things and apply to other jobs. The jobs would be fine but not exciting.

    But I interviewed for a position last Friday and the interview seemed to go really well. They definitely sold me on the position and made me excited to potentially work there. They said they would check my references (if they have no one has told me, which I would expect them to because they said they would) and said encouraging things in their replies to my thank-you notes. Of course nothing is certain until I have an offer in hand, but I’m having trouble putting it out of my mind even though I’m guessing they have decided not to go with me.

    Any suggestions are welcome.

    2. over educated*

      For me the best thing to do is just get excited about another one. Displace the feelings because when you’re really psyched they don’t just go away on their own.

  24. Audiophile*

    Happy Friday!!!!!

    I’m having a great day!

    My weekend will be spent packing for my move in two weeks.

    1. Katelyn*

      I move in three weeks! Good luck with purging and packing. I can’t believe how much junk I’ve accumulated in the back corners of closets and cupboards over the years!

      1. Audiophile*

        Yes, I’m having a hard time parting with things I know I won’t wear again, like sweatshirts.

        I also have a ton of jeans that don’t fit that I’m trying to use for motivation to lose weight, but I’m sure I don’t need 10 pairs of “motivation” jeans.

        1. Katelyn*

          I know the feeling what works for me is to remind myself that they’re probably out of style anyways, keep the ones that are in great shape and donate the rest. I had to do that with a few spring jackets and about a million t-shirts (why do I have so many? no one knows! I think they’re multiplying when I’m not looking!).

          Also, if I moved things from my last house to this one and haven’t touched them since, then that gets donated unless it has truly significant personal value to me… and the things my brain has tried to tell me are significant are truly weird! Including old business cards from when I was unemployed with out-dated phone numbers on them… old school work for classes I hated and didn’t do well in… etc.

  25. Bend & Snap*

    Any tips to rectify burnout?

    About a month ago a really busy period at work wrapped up. I took time off after. But things went to hell at home (my entire housekeeping system collapsed and it’s such a mess that I haven’t had time to really dig in and get things back on track–like every stitch of clothing is clean but in baskets).

    So now I’m struggling with feeling overwhelmed at home and unmotivated at work. How do the AAM folks get back on track?

      1. Bend & Snap*

        I have one! But she just moves stuff so I can’t find it so I need to get organized before I have her back in. It’s not dirty in here, just messy.

        1. Can't Sit Still*

          How about a professional organizer? Just a couple of hours, while you’re feeling overwhelmed. Even if you are normally very organized, someone who isn’t attached to your “stuff” might be able to point out areas where changing things around might be helpful.

        2. Anna Held*

          Honestly, having all my laundry clean but not put away is a win for me. I’d give yourself a break. “Messy but not dirty” is GREAT, and sometimes you have to let the little things go and take care of what needs to be taken care of, yourself included.

          If it’s going to bother you though, carve out some time, make a list of what has to get done, then turn off your phone, crank up the music, and just go to it. Get take out to reward yourself for a job well done and avoid cooking and dishes.

    2. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

      I get easily overwhelmed by the bigness of a project. Like right now, I need to do a deep clean in my house but the idea of doing that gives me major anxiety. I’ve set up a system where every week, I’ll tackle one area and each day, I’ll try and get one thing done in that area. So it may be one day is doing laundry, the next day is cleaning out my closet, the third day may be putting away the clean laundry, the fourth day may be donating things and whatever else is needed. I also do this at work but often in a more condensed timeline. You may also just want to give yourself a break as it seems like you have a lot going on. Being patient and kind to yourself can help!

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      In a situation like yours, I would take a day or two off, kick everyone else out of the house (in my case, it means partner goes to his office or the movies and the dog goes to daycare), and use that time to organize in manageable bits. For me, that would be about an hour at a time while listening to podcasts, but YMMV. I know you said you took time off afterwards, but if you can manage a day or two, do it. I know I’m at my worst when all I want to do is work from home so I can throw in a load of laundry or reorganize my drawers. Some things require more than just a weekend, which is usually filled with other obligations.

    4. Gingerblue*

      I’ve been there, and I really don’t cope well with a messy house, so my solution has mostly been to power through the cleaning even when I’m unmotivated. I agree with Temperance that if you can hire some help, go for it! But if you don’t want to spend the money or if hiring help seems like more work than just doing it yourself, can you gamify cleaning somehow? Put on music, give yourself a small reward for each task done, promise yourself something fun like takeout and a movie night at the end? It’s sucky but I’ve usually been rewarded by a burst of motivation and feeling renewed at the end, just because the mental drag of looking around and thinking about the dust and the laundry and the dishes in the sink isn’t there. (I also find that starting is the hard part. Once I do start, it doesn’t take that long and something mindless and physical can be a nice change from my job.)

      If you have a spare room, shoving stuff like unfolded laundry in there and closing the door is totally a valid strategy.

    5. Bend & Snap*

      I think my biggest challenge is that I’m a divorced mom to a toddler…so my “free” time still has a small needy child in it, and the time I don’t have her is spent doing things it’s harder to do when she’s with me. Her room is organized but that’s all right now.

      Maybe I need a mother’s helper for a day.

      1. Emi.*

        That would probably help! All the babysitters I know do mother’s-helper-ing as well, and usually for less $$. :)

      2. AvonLady Barksdale*

        This is the PERFECT time to hire a mother’s helper! Lots of qualified and eager students around, and many of them are biding time until their camp jobs start. I used to do this when I was in high school for a friend of my mom’s; she would take her grandkids for a few weeks and I would just come over and help out for a few bucks. See my advice above and hire a mother’s helper to take your kid to the backyard and run around. If you don’t have a backyard, her room or the kitchen will do.

      3. KellyK*

        Oh my gosh yes! If there’s a college near you, their career center might keep a list of families that are hiring baby-sitters and could add you to that list. You can also ask friends with older teen or college-age kids. Your area may also have a Facebook group for that sort of thing.

        Friends who like kids (either who have kids in the right age range, or who don’t have them and thus are looking to get their cute fix from other people’s children) might also be an option. Not necessarily hiring them, because that might be weird, but it’s definitely the kind of favor you could ask of good friends, especially if you can return the favor or take them out for lunch or something.

        Maybe I’m just weird, but if any of my friends needed a day of toddler-chasing on a day I had free, I’d be up for it. (See previous statement about liking kids, not having any, and needing other people’s children for a cuteness fix.)

      4. kbeers0su*

        Agreed with all this. We have our usual babysitter come over on some weekend days and pay her slightly less than normal ($10 is her usual, we pay $8 when we’re there with her). That way our toddler is entertained and hubby and I can get big things done. Right now we’re prepping for baby #2, which includes having to put a wall back in where the previous homeowners took it out to create a massive master suite. Construction, electrical, drywall…not easy to manage when there’s a 4-year old underfoot. Plus, the toddler loves her sitter, so it’s really more like a playdate for her!

    6. Damn it, Hardison!*

      I’m a list maker, so they first thing I do when I have to much to do (at work or at home) is to make a list of what needs to get done, prioritize it (what’s the most critical at home?) and then block of time to get it done. I often find that just taking control of it all on paper helps to minimize the anxiety.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      I have a good mess here because of working on my house.
      My solution has been to do something for a half hour in the morning and something for a half hour at night. Then on days off I can do a bit more time.

      Here’s the key for me. I do the parts that are going to make me feel good. “Oh, if I could just get this table emptied off….” So I do the table. With each thing that I get done, more energy comes back and I can do more because I see stuff getting done.
      From what you say here, I would work on the clothes pile for one of the half hours each day until the problem went down or maybe I would just clean up all the clothes. My rationale would be, I can’t function without fresh clothes. I need them organized so I can not worry about that any more and do other things.

  26. FriYAY!*

    I have a 4th interview for a job this coming Tuesday. They’ve also requested that I complete two online assessments over the weekend. I’m excited about the job but I’m also beginning to think the process seems really long. There is potential for a 5th interview as well. This is a mid-level position with a non-profit organization.
    I’m hoping it works out because it is a great organization, the people I’ve met have been great and it is 32 hours/week full time with benefits which would be great because I’m in school part time in the evenings.

  27. YeahNo*

    Hi there! Lurker for about 6 months, first time commenter. I’m in a “rotational” program at a professional services firm, which means I do a different role every 6 months. So my team and manager change frequently, which makes it fairly easy not to be too perturbed by any weird dynamics in any one group. But yesterday, I had an episode with my current grand-boss, and it’s been bothering me ever since. This man has a reputation for being brilliant, which I suspect is simply because he has a very serious attitude and loves asking tough questions. He’s also quite moody, and his feedback on your work is unpredictable. Yesterday in a team meeting I presented a PowerPoint deck we will be using in a bigger meeting next week, and he had seen 80% of it before…and praised me on it. But yesterday, he was super critical, said it was unclear, needed to be “clean,” etc…like, constructive criticism is fine, but the way he said it was just…harsh. I know I should just move on and not let it bother me, but it pisses me off! I feel like people are constantly walking on eggshells around him, and he gets away with it because once he’s “nice” again people reward him by acting like nothing ever happened. But that doesn’t come naturally to me…once someone is rude to me, I don’t easily forget it. I don’t know if I’m just looking for commiseration or advice, but I thought I’d share. Thanks for listening!

    1. Liet-Kynes*

      He may be brilliant, but there’s this phenomenon I’ve noticed in our culture that I call the Steve Jobs Effect, where people who are actually or notionally brilliant demand, and often receive, a pass on being kind and decent human beings when it comes to delivering feedback, disapproval, or constructive criticism.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I see this also, and I don’t get it.
        To me a truly smart person is well-rounded. They have people skills plus they know their topic. If a person does not have some people skills in place then they are not brilliant in my books. They will only go so far in life because they will manage to tick off too many people.

        OP, perhaps you can find comfort in thinking about the many aspects of intelligence. If he does not develop some people skills he is going to end up being that lonely old man in the nursing home who nobody wants to deal with. I pull out this mental image when I cannot think of any other coping tool for the immediate problem.
        People can be very popular in high school and go on to have a very drab life as adults.
        People can be very in demand at work and never have a good friend for their entire life time.
        A bigger picture perspective might help sometimes.

    2. INeedANap*

      It might help you to re-frame what’s going on here in your mind.

      It’s not that people are consciously rewarding him, and I promise that they haven’t forgotten he was rude! It’s that, especially in a work environment, there’s a cost-benefit analysis to be done about your interactions with other people that is kind of unique to professional environments. Honestly, I don’t know that it comes naturally to anyone – it’s just one of those things you learn through context.

      I find that I can move on from things like this much more easily if I mentally take them out of the “emotion” category – the emotion category being my internal narrative of, “This person was rude to me and I am angry about it, and that makes me feel frustrated because this anger is not going to have a satisfying resolution” – and then put them into the “business” category – with the business category being an internal narrative of, “I am being paid to work efficiently with Person; therefore, I will work efficiently by not mentioning the rude incident and making the changes I was told to, because I want to exchange my time and effort for money and this allows me to do that.”

      When I break down these types of incidents into cold transactions rather than interpersonal things, I find it much easier.

  28. NJ Anon*

    Do I need to wear my “interview outfit” when meeting with a recruiter from a staffing agency? Back story: I have been looking for a new job for quite awhile. Had a great interview a couple of weeks ago and found out today that I still in the runnung. This is Job A. Had a phone screen with the board president for a job I spplied to 2.5 months ago. She was upfront about the challenges of the position-basically resurrecting a nonprofit from the funk it is in. This is Job B. The interview on Monday with a recruiter for Job C which is a lower level position but good pay and very close to home.

    1. the gold digger*

      Yes. You do not want the staffing agency recruiter telling the hiring manager, “Her resume is fabulous but she showed up here in flip flops and a tank top!”

      1. NJ Anon*

        Yeah, wasnt going the flip flop, tank top route but more business casual. Sigh, I hate getting all dressed up.

        1. the gold digger*

          I know no AAM reader would ever do that, but I did see that once in at a staffing agency when I was looking for work! I was in work clothes – and there was someone in gym pants and Crocs!

    2. NoMoreFirstTimeCommenter*

      I see interviews with staffing agency people in the same way as interviews directly by the employer.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Absolutely. I had to take clerical testing at a staffing agency for a job and I showed up in business casual. I didn’t want them to think I wasn’t taking it seriously.

      Off-topic but THEY HAD A DOG IN THE OFFICE. He came right up to me as I was sitting at the computer and begged for pets! :D

      1. Jennifer's Thneed Needs a Job*

        Did you ask them if THEY had any open positions?

        Friendly dogs are a seriously good perk.

      2. Paquita*

        I had a phone interview this week for a job with a dog and a cat in the office! They decided not continue with me though. :(

  29. youremindmeofthebabe*

    I started a new position, in the same company, nearly two months ago. It’s totally new to me, they’re training me from the ground up. I was ready for something new, but it’s so odd to be taking baby steps when I’m used to kicking ass. For almost a month I was doing both jobs, waiting for them to hire someone, and I thought I was doing a good job keeping up with everything while trying to absorb new things, until a co-worker told me they’d heard people saying I was forgetting things. I still don’t know what they were talking about, because everything got done. Regardless, a person was finally hired for the bulk of my duties and another person within the company was given some of my other duties. So, I’m training two people to take over my former position. I keep having to bite my tongue because they’re “doing it wrong”. I’ve been working for this company 20 years and at that position for 10. I crafted that position and now it’s been taken apart, pieced out…is it so weird that it’s kind of hurt my heart? I got taken off a distro list this morning for recruiting (which was part of my job for 8 years). I think that’s when it sunk in that I’m no longer doing any of that, or at least I won’t be after these two people get fully trained. The new person taking over the main part of my duties isn’t picking them up as quickly as they should and I hear co-workers mentioning things she’s forgotten to do. I’m afraid it’s reflecting badly on me as the one training her. It would have been so much easier to start with a new company. I’m trying to distance myself, focus on the new position and learn it, giving myself patience because it is new and not my normal. But where I was confident I could do it, when I originally accepted, I’m now slightly shaken up and doubting. In the grand scheme of things I know that a year from now most of this won’t matter, but it definitely matters today!

    1. roseberriesmaybe*

      That sucks, it can be difficult to see changes being made and not being a part of it anymore. Though I have to be honest, the main thing I came here to say was: The babe with the power

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I could be totally misreading this but it seems like they are doing the same thing to the new people that they did to you. They keep pointing out what is wrong or what they think is wrong.

      It could be that your company has a culture of complaining. It could be that it’s just one or two people but they pass out their poisonous words to everyone.

      In general watch out for the word “they”. Insist on knowing names.
      Cohort: They said you were doing it wrong.
      You: Who is they?
      Cohort: Oh, department x.
      You: Who in department x?
      Cohort: Oh, Sue and Jane.
      You: Okay, thank you for telling me. The next time you hear Sue and Jane complaining ask them to come speak to me about their complaints. Let them know that I am waiting to hear from them.

      You will never hear from them. And in some cases the complaints will suddenly stop also.

      1. youremindmeofthebabe*

        In thinking back on all my years here, you’re right, there is a culture of complaining. Most of it happens behind someone’s back and is rarely addressed head on. Generally I try to stay out of it. That didn’t work this time. I like the script you provided and I think I’ll be using that if something like this comes up again!

  30. Anonon*

    I’m waiting to hear back about an interview and it’s so nerve-racking. It would be an internal lateral move. The actual 2nd interview was 2 weeks ago. They finished checking all three my references a week ago from today. All three references told me they gave glowing references. I’ve received 2 timeline updates this week – the first on Monday from the department contact saying they’ll have a decision early this week, and the next on Wednesday evening from HR saying they should have an update by the end of this week. I can’t figure out if it’s because they can’t decide on a candidate or if it’s because they don’t know how to deal with the lateral aspect. Or something else entirely. I know Alison always says to move on as soon as you’ve interviewed – but it makes it harder when they keep reaching out with updated timelines that aren’t met! Argh!

  31. Bored & Ignored*

    Well…the plot thickens and I can’t tell anyone at work about this so I guess you guys get the gossip.

    Recap: Boss and her boss have been having an EXTREMELY obvious affair for a few years. They’ve been caught kissing before and other canoodlings. They were talked to at one point by Great-Grandboss and it apparently put a stop to it temporarily. It’s still bad. They ignore me and just hang out together for 90% of the day.

    WELL. Apparently…the President was informed that it has not stopped. He thought that Great-Grandboss had taken care of it.

    Boss and Grandboss just pulled me into a meeting to ask what projects we’ve been working on. Grandboss told me has has a meeting next week with Great-Grandboss and President. He is assuming it’s about projects. Knowing the President……..it’s not going to be about projects.

    I’m weirdly optimistic that this will help my situation. I don’t think anyone will get fired. But I think being told to cut it out, again, will hopefully allow them to distance themselves and maybe start assigning me work and giving me some attention. It’s too hard to fill my days when I’m basically bored and ignored. Am I being too optimistic? Naive? Idk. Hopefully not. All I know is, I can’t continue with this the way it has been.

    1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      I kinda love that Boss and Grandboss are about to be blindsided. They’ve basically been given the green light to continue a public affair because everyone has turned a blind eye and not enforced Great-Grandboss’ warning. But now the President will step in and give a final warning. I bet Boss won’t take it seriously and will be out on his ear soon.

      1. Bored & Ignored*

        I’m mixed. I genuinely loved my boss for the first year or so. Things have changed drastically. She’s great 1-on-1…but…I can’t work like this.

        1. WellRed*

          Possibly they won’t fire anyone, but may do some shuffling. I agree, tjough. This sounds like a positive.

  32. TSG*

    Hey all!

    So. I feel torn. I love my job, great location, great coworkers, etc. But I am paid about 30% less than market value for my role and experience. For awhile I was okay with it because I liked the job so much, but my tasks keep getting shifted to deal with daily fires and I haven’t been able to actually do my real, desired work for two months now with no signs of it slowing down.

    I talked to my boss a while back about other opportunities in the company to do more and that have better salaries, etc. I was moved to a new position but the salary increase never came. But so he knows that I’m looking for more more, and at this point I just really need it.

    So I’ve only been seriously job hunting for two weeks and already have three interviews, which I’m thrilled about! But my boss wrote to me earlier this week to say they finally were able to find another position that may meet my needs here. Thing is, I know that no matter what, it’s still going to pay less than other places. A couple months ago I’d be fine still making less than market value as long as I was making more than I am now, but now I know I just need to get out of here.

    But obviously, who knows how long that will actually take? I’m supposed to meet with him on Monday to discuss the new job they want to offer me, and I don’t know what to say. I’ll be shooting myself in the foot if I’m honest that I’m job hunting, but I’ll feel like a jerk if I go along with this new role than give notice in a month if one of these new prospects ends up working out. But at the same time, if they didn’t want that to happen, they’d pay their employees a livable wage. .. idk. I really want to be honest because it would really screw them to go through the work of moving me if I leave and I don’t want to do that to the people it would impact who arent at fault for my low salary, but I also need to take care of myself and make sure I have what I need…

    1. KR*

      I don’t think you have to mention you’re job hunting but you could say something like, “I’ll be honest, even with this new position I would still be paid X% below market value for a position like this, taking into account my experience. I’m really looking for a yearly salary of at least $XX,XXX, especially considering this new position, my great work on Project X, and my skills in Y.” It’s worth a try and I think it subtly conveys how unhappy you are with the pay without outright telling him you’re looking (and hopefully he will be less surprised if you leave when/if he doesn’t increase your salary!!).

    2. Research Assistant*

      You take care of yourself! Seriously, if your company isn’t willing to pay you what you’re worth and they’ve strung you along for this long, you have no obligation to be loyal to them. You don’t need to be transparent; they’re not paying you enough.

    3. Not in US*

      What I’ve learned is you need to look out for your own career, because no one will do it for you. Don’t shoot yourself in the foot about something that “might” happen. You don’t know how long you’ll be there – these jobs might not be the right fit and it could take you 6-12 months to find something that is. It’s a hard lesson to learn but don’t leave until you leave – believe me I was guilty of this at times but you do yourself a real disservice. KR has a good suggestion about bringing up salary in the context of the new position and maybe you’re company will surprise you and if not, you keep looking.

  33. WomanEngineer*

    I do not have any direct reports. I’m a project manager and about two years ago began getting assigned junior level employees to work for me on larger projects. The junior employees work on multiple projects at the same time and likewise I have other projects in the works (some where I’m doing all the work and some more where I’m project managing others) Up until now I’ve bumbled along ok, I seem to do good work and so do the juniors. On my most recent project a guy that I’ve worked with a few times has consistently not been turning in the sufficient quantity of work as we have progressed leading us to be behind. I knew he was somewhat busy but he always assured me he was taking care of things etc… it wasn’t a long project either only 8 weeks. About two weeks before the deadline I panicked when I realized the state of the project, i asked him to give me back a task to complete and started reviewing things daily and I started giving more feedback/input and would even give him items to include, if I was able to easily pull what was needed together. I also gave him written lists of items I saw outstanding and stated, you need to take care of all these things. In the end the Friday before the project was to go out he left at 4pm without turning over all the final needed pieces of work. I emailed and got no response. he had said he was going to work the weekend but he didn’t go in and never emailed me. I ended up working a full day Sunday to try and finish what I could. Monday when he came in he worked on the project and gave me more stuff but I still had an incomplete project that went out. Now the deadline has passed we still need to wrap things up and most importantly I need to address these issues. But I am not his superior and I can’t say ‘you need to change or X will happen’ I also don’t even know if he or I will work together again this year so I can’t say ‘maybe next time we should do Y?’ How do I handle this? My supervisor is aware of things and says I need to ‘talk to him and find out what happened’ but again I’m at a loss for how to do this. We also have a really open plan office which makes it very hard to have difficult conversations. any advice?

    1. Sadsack*

      I think it’s fair to have a conversation where you tell him you had a deadline and ask what happened? Maybe letting him know how it effected you will make him realize he has to step up, but I am afraid that it won’t mean much if there are no real repercussions for him. I am not clear who his manager us, but that person should probably talk to him.

    2. Imaginary Number*

      If you’re in a matrix/project-oriented organization it should be totally acceptable for you to directly discuss your concerns with his functional manager. If you’ve worked with him several times and you don’t address it with his manager, they’re just going to keep assigning him to you and assume it’s working out. I would definitely sit down with him about it first, though. If you’re in an open office plan, are there huddle rooms that you can book to have a private conversation? I think it’s important to figure out if the problem is competency or time-commitment. Sometimes a problem looks like a time-commitment issue when it’s really a competency issue. Engineers often feel a lot more comfortable saying “I’m sorry, I was swamped with a bunch of last-minute things last week” vs. “I’m sorry, I didn’t actually know how to do half of the stuff you were asking”.

      1. WomanEngineer*

        Thanks for the thoughtful answers. he told me things just slipped through… and I said I needed the final bit of work to be thorough and complete. I think there is some technical competency and being overbooked stuff at play. And if the other work is easier, he chooses that. Which leads me this being something to be handled at the manager level. We have the same manager so I’ll have to get on that. Our manager was out for two weeks which was part of my problem and delay in addressing things. The last week really burned me out and it’s so frustrating that the project is still not complete. And ultimately I’m the one looking bad in front of the client.

      2. Clever Name*

        Yep. This is how my company works. PMs are supposed to address these types of issues as they come up, and if it looks like a pattern, they are supposed to loop in the person’s supervisor. Do you have the ability to pick who works on your projects in the future? If so, I’d pick folks who are reliable over this guy.

    3. Thlayli*

      I have been in exactly this situation a few times. Honestly the quickest way to sort it out is to go to their manager. However if you don’t want to do that at This stage a couple of other options are:
      1 ask for someone else next time he is assigned to one of your projects.
      2 micro-manage: break his work down into smaller pieces of work that can be done in a single day and follow up each day. This will at least let you know earlier if he is not getting through it

  34. Ella*

    Hi,
    First time poster here with a question. I am an admin on a team of four, with one other marketing/admin person. Our duties are super clearly split but for now we are working on it. In the past week or so, the other admin has been making a large number of small or minor errors — spelling mistakes, wrong times for events, not adding items to calendar, not sending all info in emails. This clearly reflects poorly on me as the other admin (as our boss isn’t always totally clear on who is doing what) and our team as a whole (sending marketing material to clients with typos). I’ve asked the other admin to send me everything for proofing but I don’t have time to check all his work to fix everything. I’ve talked to our other team member, because she mentioned to me that she had seen his work slip, but not the other admin directly or our boss. What should I do in this situation? Talk to the other admin? Talk to the boss?
    Thanks!

    1. CA Admin*

      As another admin, I get how tricky this can be. I’d say talk to your boss–you’re not the other admin’s manager, so telling her how to do her tasks is likely to go over poorly. If your boss knows what’s going on, then you don’t have to stress about it–he/she knows that it’s not your fault and who to talk to about fixing it, if it’s a problem.

    2. SaviourSelf*

      I agree, talk to your boss and be specific/give examples. If I were the boss, I would want to know if this was happening and especially if it wasn’t just a one-time-thing. It isn’t your responsibility to proofread all of his work (unless you’ve been told otherwise by your boss) and you don’t want his poor work quality to reflect poorly on you nor do you want your work to suffer because you’re busy checking his work.

      Talk to your boss.

  35. MissMaple*

    Thanks to everyone who gave me some input on badge flipping as a federal contractor a few weeks ago. I got my offer from the new contractor and have to respond by today. In the end, it’s basically equivalent (same salary, more vacation, benefits cost more) and it might be nicer to work for a bigger contractor rather than the small one that’s only local to where I currently work. I supposed it’s always good to have options within the company I work for if I need to move somewhere else.

    I’m trying to set up a meeting with my current employer today to let them know, but it looks like I’ll be badge flipping as of the end of the month.

    Thanks again to everyone who gave advice!

  36. Imaginary Number*

    The topic of “unwanted hugging from coworkers” has come up before. I know the right answer is just to tell this person I’m not comfortable with it, and I feel awful that I haven’t been able to work up the nerve to do it.

    The coworker in question always hugs female coworkers in greeting (never male coworkers.) We don’t work together, but are in the same program, and so see eachother at networking events a lot. I’ve tried to be subtle about it and go in for the handshake before he can hug, but it doesn’t usually work. He also kisses us on the cheek when leaving (not European.) He’s very involved with musical theater on the side and I know they’re a very touchy-feely bunch for the most part.

    I have no other issues with this person. He is very outgoing and gets along with everyone. I feel like it would be even worse to bring it up after nearly two years (I know, I should have done it sooner.)

    This would be so much easier if he was a jerk.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      Even if he’s not a jerk, he is treating women differently than men.

      That’s not okay.

      I hope you can get up the nerve to say something. Maybe frame it as how it might look to others that it’s gendered?

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      A lot of people are more comfortable doing it if they make it about their own hang-up: “Oh, I’m not a hugger!” “I’m not one for hugs, but I’d love to shake your hand.” “I barely even hug my mother, but it’s good to see you.” … etc.

      Really, these are things people say. It is fine. Be self-deprecating about it and no one will feel weird. (I want to be clear that I’m not saying you have to be self-deprecating about it, but it’s an easy way to feel comfortable about it when you otherwise wouldn’t.)

      1. Imaginary Number*

        Unfortunately, it’s not so much that I’m not a hugger. I have no problem hugging my close friends and there are a couple of coworkers who fall in that category. The part that’s uncomfortable for me is a) we’re not close friends, although we’re friendly and b) the fact that he specifically hugs the women as greeting.

        1. Emilia Bedelia*

          You don’t have to actually be a not-huggy person to tell him that you are- this is a situation where it’s acceptable to lie a little bit. He’s not going to call you out for hugging someone else and not him. And if he does, that is even weirder and you are allowed to give him a puzzled expression and move on.

          If it makes you feel better, you can imagine saying “I’m not one for hugging…….. you”

            1. Imaginary Number*

              True. I’ll try that next time. Maybe in combination with the “going for the handshake.”

        2. JamieS*

          You can still be a non-hugger even if you let close friends/family hug you. Generally being a non-hugger doesn’t mean you never hug. It just means you’re not a promiscuous hugger.

    3. Menacia*

      Unfortunately, I work with someone (not closely and I don’t see him often, thankfully), who, even though I told him I’m not a hugger, always replies back “Well *I* am!” and just goes for it, kiss on the cheek and all. *sigh*

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Eeeww, that’s really obnoxious. Next time, say “Unfortunately it takes two so we’ll have to shake hands instead” and see what happens.

      2. JamieS*

        I’ve found that putting my hand up to stop them as they go in usually works. The two times it didn’t, loudly saying “unhand me you animal!” did the trick.

    4. Shony*

      I mean I was in theatre and yeah, there’s some touchy feely there sometimes, but it doesn’t exactly extend outside the group. It’s more a side effect of how intimate that work can be, when you’re working together basically 24/7, especially acting, where you’re playing off each other in ways that inadvertently become quite personal.

      Which is to say, that does not really transfer to a different work environment, and it’d be weird if someone assumed so. Aaaaaand I got a lot of hugs in theatre but not really kisses. That still seems weird to me, almost like an affectation he’s decided to take on?

      1. Imaginary Number*

        That’s really insightful that you said “an affectation he’s decided to take on” because I think you nailed it. He’s sort of made a brand for himself as the “exuberant and outgoing person who is best friends with everyone” (which works really well for the very social job he does.

    5. Observer*

      It’s ok to bring it up after 2 years. Although Alison’s scripts can make it easier.

      And, if he responds to “I’m not a hugger” with “Well I am”, then he IS a jerk. But “Well it takes two” is a perfect response.

  37. Construction Safety*

    Oy.

    We have a project where the client forbids all tobacco use on site. We are continually having problems with our workers smoking in the port-a-cans. Client is now aware of this & suggested putting locks on the doors & having an attendant to sign out keys & do a pre & post sniff for combustion by-products.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      Is client going to pay for this security?

      You might get away with a designated smoking area on the sidewalk, just off property- but please, provide ash cans.

      1. Construction Safety*

        Ah, negatory on the additional costs.

        It’s a big site, they’d have to drive off. Not going to happen.

    2. Rebecca*

      Well, it looks like the smokers will need to smoke only on designated breaks, and off site. I can’t believe they’d actually pay someone to be the Potty Smoker Police and lock the doors!

    3. Liet-Kynes*

      I mean, on the one hand, I have a microscopic level of tolerance for smokers and their smoke breaks and smoke smell and smoke obsession. On the other hand, wow, your client sounds so bonkers they make me look tolerant. I’d provide a designated off-property smoking area and make it clear they’re to use it on breaks only, and maybe establish a Nicorette stash for the desperate.

      1. Savannnah*

        My company recently fired our construction company in the middle of a who knows how many millions of dollar expansion because of smoking. We are a hospital network so there are state and federal laws at play but our replacement construction company had everyone sign a protocol that they would be 100 feet away from the campus to smoke on breaks, which given our proximity to schools and other hospital campuses basically means that no one can smoke during the day lawfully.

      2. Observer*

        Not bonkers at all. It doesn’t matter how someone personally feels about smoking. There are some good business reasons to ban smoking on site. And, if that’s what the customer wants, that what the customer gets. Smoking in the porta-potties is an additional problem aside from the general ban. These things don’t have decent ventilation, which means that they stink all day, and if there is anyone with sensitivity to smoke they can’t use it.

  38. Jessesgirl72*

    Well, it ends up my husband can’t work remotely while we are waiting for the baby to be born after all.

    His grand boss gave permission, pending what Security said. Security said yes, as long as he didn’t take over the company laptop. They spent a week setting up the VPN and VM- so he’d use his personal laptop through the VPN to remote in to a virtual machine created just for him that only existed while he was logged in, then remote from there to his office desktop, using 2 factor authentication (that step, as always) Everyone was agreed and set up. Then a VP said they needed to look into it more, but said it was up to Grandboss. Grandboss said yes. That wasn’t the answer she wanted. :P So she linked to a white paper that “proved” how dangerous Ukraine is, “because Russian hackers”- that all it said was that hackers were attacking the Ukraine government servers, but specifically stated that private internet was fine. Grandboss still said yes. So then she says that in order for it to happen, Grandboss and Great Grandboss had to sign something saying that they personally were taking responsibility if anything went wrong. Right. I don’t know why she just didn’t say no, outright, from the start of her involvement!

    Grandboss says yes, she’s wrong and ridiculous, but… and that rumor had it someone at C-level had been hacked while at a conference (not using any of these protections) and so they had a bug up their butt about it.

    Grandboss then didn’t understand why my husband wanted to fill out the paperwork for FMLA. But he did set up a meeting with HR, who explained it to him. I don’t know if HR explained the difference between surrogacy and adoption, though.

    So he has 4 weeks minus 1.5 days of PTO we can pull from, and 4 weeks of paid parental leave that kicks in at birth. We have to be there 2 weeks before the due date, and then it’s 2-3 weeks before we can bring the baby home. We should be fine- they won’t let her go that long before inducing, as we know the conception date, down to the minute- but wanted the FMLA in place just in case something goes wrong. The PTO has to be used before FMLA, but the Parental Leave is separate and in addition to it.

    It will be fine, and he’s been hoarding his PTO, since the parental leave was only announced a month ago, but it’s so frustrating! And what she is afraid of happening is more likely from our house- which everyone WFM on Fridays right now, at minimum- because it doesn’t have all the extra protections, and someone would have to be looking for him, and break encryption and then all they could get was screen shots!

    But my husband has made it clear that then it’s 6-8 weeks without him, and he won’t even be able to check his work email, since it’s so unsafe. ;)

    And he’s going to start job searching as soon as we get back.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      Yikes. I’m sorry it didn’t work out that intended. I was hopeful that it would be bumpy sailing instead of this. It’s stressful enough on you to begin with without all this extra kerfuffle.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        Thank you. I really did add some unneeded stress! There is so much precedence, even in his department, for being allowed to work remotely, even while overseas. That’s why they had the whole process for it already in place. It’s just bad luck that it’s a combination of so much hype over “ZOMG RUSSIA!”(And we’ve had SO.MUCH.TROUBLE with even our bank, convincing them that Ukraine is not Russia!) and the C-Suiter being hacked when we need it.

        We felt better when we knew if anything got held up before or after, my husband would just keep on working. We knew we had FMLA to fall back on, but surrogacy is not inexpensive (1/3 to 1/4 of what it is in the US, but not inexpensive!)

        Even his boss says, best case scenario, he’ll be born a day or two after we arrive, and it won’t be an issue. I just wish we hadn’t rented a 2 BR apartment specifically for work space that can be shut off from the rest of the space. There was one we liked better with amazing views, but no workspace except the kitchen table in the main room!

  39. Junior Dev*

    I don’t know if someone already posted this in the thread on culture fit but it’s relevant. It’s an article about how casual workplace culture of the kind often found in tech can actually be destructive to diversity and work life balance, and how the most inclusive work culture focuses on work and doesn’t try to involve hobbies or working overtime ot going out to the bar together.

    2. Liet-Kynes*

      I think that is, whether by accident or intent, a feature rather than a bug. If everything is super chummy and there’s a slide and nerf gun wars and a beer fridge, that’s a cheap way to make people more okay with working 70 hours a week and dealing with tech bro Travis Kalanick types who have no perspective and think they’re on a mission to save the world with an app.

      1. Junior Dev*

        Yeah, the places I’ve worked or had friends work at where free beer was part of the workplace have also been notorious for hiring young people for below market rate and burning through them in 6 months or a year.

    3. Mints*

      That was interesting! I sort of disagree with the 9-5 argument, because flex time seems like a win for all types of employees. But I agree hard with the argument that culture should be about good work, not Rock Band or beer or whatever.

    4. Ann O.*

      I think this is mixing several things together that should be separated out. Also, I’m going to start with my standard disclaimer that Silicon Valley tech IS diverse. It’s simply not diverse across all axes of representation. These types of articles paint tech as all under 30-something white men, but large tech companies are more like 50% white, 30 to 40% Asian (both immigrant and Asian-American and across the continent), and then a mix of everything else. Tech jobs are HORRIBLE for gender balance, but the gender balance across tech and non-tech is closer to parity.

      Back to the article’s points. I LOVE the focus on professionalism at work and not implicitly requiring outside friendships/similar hobbies/etc. I don’t think that’s a cure all at all, and I don’t think outside socializing is at all a newfangled tech thing, but I think it’s an overall win. We don’t need to be friends with our co-workers. We need to be able to do our work with them.

      I hate the conflation of flex time, relaxed dress codes, and free food with this. Those are completely different things, and flex time and genuinely relaxed dress codes (i.e. no penalizing non-white folk for hairstyles, patterns, styles, etc.) are great.

  40. Not Today Satan*

    Does anyone have any experience hiring someone when you couldn’t get in touch with any real references? We recently interviewed some one who seemed okay but I had reservations. We didn’t have many good options, so we asked for her references. The only one we got in touch with was someone who worked with for 3 months 15 years ago and who is now her friend. We tried calling more recent employers and no one returned our (multiple) calls. Anyway, my boss was desperate and hired her.

    I get that there might be some innocent explanation, but it’s a major red flag to me. Any stories (whether with good endings or bad) from similar situations?

    1. CMDRBNA*

      I personally would think it was a red flag, BUT I also have several references that are good references but hard to get in touch with because they travel internationally a lot.

      Since she’s already been hired, it’s kind of a moot point, right? She’ll either do well or not. It may be worth looking at why you didn’t have many good options though (have you checked your organization’s GlassDoor reviews? Maybe the job description needs refreshing?).

      1. Not Today Satan*

        It’s a position that requires a specific skill and that the candidate speak a particular language. For the position that doesn’t require language proficiency, we had a much better time.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      It’s a major red flag. Can we use this as a test — will you report back to us in a few months about how she turned out as an employee?

      2. Not Today Satan*

        Will do!

        Btw, you may have written about this type of thing before, but one of her previous employers wouldn’t even confirm that she worked there over the phone. We had to use sort sort of online portal that charged us a $40 fee for her title and employment dates. What a scam! lol

        1. Liet-Kynes*

          You simply must update us. I really hope this doesn’t turn out as badly as I think it will.

        2. Susan*

          My former employer used a service like this called The Work Number, and I believe there are some companies that make the use of this service mandatory, so HR is required to refer all inquiries about employment history to the service. I wouldn’t consider that a red flag in itself because that is a thing at some companies (though I agree it’s a scam).

          1. Not So Bad Candidate*

            Almost all of my former (and current) employers use The Work Number. It sucks. And in one case a friend I used to work with had The Work Number tell her new employer that they had no record of her. So that was a fun mess to clean up.

    3. Cookie*

      Well, if I had to give references now it would be a struggle. I’d probably give my current employer because I need a reference from someone who supervised me, but that isn’t ideal. My supervisor at my prior job is gone, but hr could verify my employment (and coworkers can vouch for me). Other than that, I have short term internships and professor contacts, neither of whom know me super well (and professors are probably not answering their office phones in the summer). So there could be plenty of legit reasons.

    4. JulieBulie*

      I worry about this kind of thing, because quite a few of my ex-jobs have gone out of business and I have no idea where some of my ex-managers ended up. Many are retired. Some are on LinkedIn, but others are not.

      Hopefully the people I work with now will give good references for me if I ever need them, but when I got this job, they had a lot of trouble reaching even the people from my last job, because the company had gone belly-up and its managers scattered to the four corners of the earth (okay, four corners of the northeastern US) in disgrace.

    5. Ann O.*

      Is it so unusual in this day and age? There’s so much job churn now that if you’re not connected via social networking, contact info and phone numbers can go out of date fast!

  41. Audiophile*

    I want to start incorporating dresses into my work wardrobe. Now, I mostly wear pants (Gloria Vanderbilt, Chaps, etc.) for work.

    I looked in Old Navy and didn’t find anything I liked. I’ve seen some cute things on Amazon from Miusol but they might be a little too heavy for summer weather, which is officially here in NYC.

    Does anyone have any suggestions?

      1. Audiophile*

        I’ve looked at Ann Taylor (and Loft) since I have a store card with them. I’ll check out Banana Republic since I was just approved for the Old Navy Visa card, but haven’t been thrilled with the selection in the past.

        Didn’t even think of J Crew. I did see some cute things on ModCloth, just didn’t order anything.

        Thanks for the suggestions.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      You could try Stitch Fix — they’ll curate some options for you. It could be helpful as you’re figuring out what styles/brands/fabrics/etc. you like.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          No, I haven’t — I use a similar service that has a better model (but only offers plus sizes). Stitch Fix just recently started offering plus sizes and I haven’t checked it out yet.

          (The other service is called Gwynnie Bee and it is AMAZING. It’s like old-school Netflix for clothes — you pay to have a certain number of items out at a time, and when you send one back they send you another. I’ll post a link in a subcomment.)

          2. Can't Sit Still*

            I LOVE Gwynnie Bee! I’ve been able to wear clothes that I wouldn’t normally buy and returned clothes that I would have bought if I had just tried them on in the store without wearing them first. I’m pretty sure it’s actually saved me money.

            I’m trying Stitch Fix out. My first box was so close, but I ended up returning everything, since they didn’t listen when I said no sleeveless or button-down tops and sent…sleeveless button-downs. My next box looks more promising, since I set up a Pintrest board for them to refer to.

            Dia & Co. is another size 14 and up subscription box. I wasn’t thrilled with my first box, but I did end up with an amazing pair of jeans that fit perfectly, so I’m giving them another chance.

            All the emails I’ve been getting lately from Stitch Fix, Dia & Gwynnie Bee are about their great dresses for summer, so I think anyone looking for dresses is going to be in luck!

          3. Audiophile*

            Thanks for the rec!. I made an account and I’m adding dresses to my “closet” as part of the 30 day free trial.

        2. Cardigania*

          I’ve tried it and liked it! *Very* strict timeline on returns, so pay close attention to this if you try it.

        3. Ama*

          I got two really great work appropriate dresses from Stitch Fix a while back (although I’ll caution that my workplace is business casual and one in particular might not be that doable for a full business dress office).

          Also I haunt the Boden website — their dresses are expensive but things go on sale frequently and I have lucked into some 60% and 70% off bargains.

        4. Bess*

          I like Stitch Fix when I’m having trouble with a gap in my wardrobe–they’re good about sending you stuff you’d pass by online or in a store, but that actually works out well. They skew slightly casual but there’s lots of places for notes and you can say you want work stuff. If you get a pinterest board together and share it with them they get an even better sense of what you like, I think. The “look” cards they send with the pieces are nice if you need ideas for how to wear them.

          You won’t get a bargain on anything, and if you don’t keep the whole box I think you slightly overpay on some items, tbh, BUT the pieces I’ve kept I’ve ended up wearing over and over and over, so it ended up being worth it for me.

          They can get a little pushy about auto-scheduling you for a monthly service, so if you don’t want that, just be vigilant and cancel or move the dates.

    3. Cardigania*

      On a similar note – anyone have ideas for alternatives to cardigans to wear with dresses/short sleeves? I’m tired of constantly wearing solid-colored button-down sweaters, but haven’t found many blazers that work with my business casual wardrobe.

      1. Stylishly Neutral Grad*

        I got a really nice, smart jacket at Macy’s four years ago, but I don’t think they sell it anymore. Depending on the office, some of them could look sharp and professional.

        An additional suggestion for Audiophile: White House Black Market has a good selection and helpful staff and is a shade less formal than something like Ann Taylor.

        1. Audiophile*

          Thanks. I know there’s one in my local mall, but I wasn’t sure what kind of store it was.

      2. Rainy, PI*

        Unstructured drapey jackets and kimono-sleeve pieces can be really good.

        Also, if you are wearing business casual, try a shrunken blazer! I know it sounds weird, but for some reason a shrunken blazer looks way better with business casual than a proper blazer does.

      4. Emilia Bedelia*

        I like to drape a cardigan or shawl over my shoulders instead of putting the sleeves on. It’s just a little bit of a different look (and it’s usually cooler than wearing a cardigan, which is too warm in the summer)

      5. Junior Dev*

        If the rest of your outfit is super sharp you might be able to pull off a leather or fitted jean jacket.

      6. over educated*

        I have a couple of blazers and casual jackets that aren’t the “suit” type, but if I’m mainly sitting at my desk that day and it’s warm enough, a shawl will often do. I keep two on my shelf.

      1. 2 Cents*

        +1 love eShakti. Shipping can take awhile, but the one dress I bought so far fit perfectly, which never happens to me with clothing.

    5. Rainy, PI*

      I only wear skirts and dresses to work (not religious, I just prefer them), and I mostly buy from Modcloth, eShakti, and–I shit you not–the Target clearance rack. I have some Gap pieces as well.

      Watch out for the cute dresses–you need to make sure the stuff you’re buying is breathable, for summer. My workplace is pretty casual (we work with students) so I can wear a lot of long flowing jersey-knit skirts and that sort of thing, which is great for summer. Especially because the A/C in my office hasn’t come on in more than a year.

      1. Audiophile*

        I’d never heard of eShakti, but I’m really intrigued by the pockets. I carry a purse, but carry my phone with me a lot.

        I’ve looked at Modcloth, but haven’t purchased anything. I need a few pairs of flat shoes.

    6. Kelly*

      I’ve bought some great items off ThreadUp.com. Lots of designer labels (if you care) at huge discounts.

      I also do a clothing/handbag/shoe swap with friends once a year. Everyone brings what they want to get rid of, you pick up things you like etc. As long as there isn’t that ONE person (I’m looking at you Anna) that wants to grab ALL THE STUFF.

    7. floating*

      I’ve had a lot of success at New York & Company. It can be super hit or miss and not everything is work appropriate, but when it’s hit, it’s a certifiable gold mine.

      1. Lia*

        I came here to suggest this. They have super cute fit and flare cotton dresses this year and they HAVE POCKETS. I bought four and get a ton of compliments on them. On sale, they are between $18 and $24!

    8. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Get thee to Lord & Taylor. On 5th Avenue. They have a HUGE selection of dresses of all kinds, for all sizes, and at all price points. They also have amazing clearance deals and sales. Pro-tip: go on a Saturday if you can’t go during the week. On Sundays, it’s usually packed.

    10. Cookie*

      I’m a big fan of New York & Co., particularly the Eva Mendes collection. If you subscribe to their emails, you’ll get half off notices all the time. And then you can get the card and build points and use your rewards on top of the 50% off…

    11. afiendishthingy*

      …now i’m online window shopping… my office is basically empty today for some reason and I am not feeling motivated…
      but I love the “outdoor” dress selection on 6pm.com.

      (I can’t tell whether or not I just commented? It’s not showing up but maybe it’s in moderation)

    12. tiny temping teapot*

      A little pricey but worth it for me: eShakti. They tailor to your measurements.

      1. afiendishthingy*

        oh man… I am looking at their stuff for the first time and I want so many pretty things

    15. Jillociraptor*

      I pretty much only have work dresses from Land’s End. It’s a little more than I would usually spend (usually $70-80 per dress, and sales aren’t super common), but I’ve had really good luck with everything I’ve bought there. They have a good selection of different cuts, colors, patterns and styles, and they have a pretty big range of sizes, including petites and plus sizes.

      Plus, they almost always put pockets in the dresses!

      1. zora*

        Was coming here to say Land’s End!
        And I find a lot of stuff from Nordstroms and other department stores. I specifically look for Karen Kane and Anne Klein brands. Halogen (Nordstrom’s house brand) and Vince Camuto have good stuff, too.

    16. Iris Eyes*

      I just picked up a great dress from the clearance at Burlington, they had a pretty great variety between more formal and more business casual. Also see if you can find a knit blazer especially something with quarter length sleeves. I believe the prevailing wisdom is that with skirts/dresses generally something that hits at waist or hip looks better than the longer blazers that you would generally get with pants, that could be what is throwing off the look.

    18. voluptuousfire*

      JC Penney. The Worthington line has a lot of cute summer dresses for work that are reasonably priced.

    19. Gov Worker*

      Evine.com. Great prices, fullrange of sizes (I’m plus size), easy pay option, and so very cute! Kate and Mallory is my favorite brand.

  42. Lalaith*

    I was supposed to have a (scheduled, unlike the question earlier this week) phone interview yesterday, and the recruiter ghosted. I don’t have her phone number so I couldn’t call her instead. I suppose I should have emailed her after 15 minutes or so letting her know I was ready and waiting, but I didn’t think of that. I’m willing to give her one more shot at this point, but I’m struggling with how to word the email. What’s a polite way to say “why didn’t you call?” The best I can come up with is “sorry we didn’t connect yesterday” but I really don’t want to say sorry in this circumstance.

    1. fposte*

      “Looks like we had a misconnect! I had us down for 1 pm yesterday for the phone interview–I’m guessing something came up or tech problems intervened. Can we reschedule?”

      1. Lalaith*

        Thanks! I cut out the middle sentence (I don’t mind sounding a bit cold), but the “looks like we had a misconnect” language is good. We’ll see what happens…

    2. Precisely*

      I’ve had this same situation occur and the recruiter was waiting for me to call! (Even though I didn’t have her number) so it really is worth reaching out, something like what fposte suggests except when you ask to re-schedule explicitly state that you were waiting for her call and that you would like to re-schedule a time for her to call you (to remove any possible confusion about how the phone interview will proceed).

  43. CMDRBNA*

    I’m super anxious about a job offer – I was offered a job at a place I’m really excited about, but when I got the offer it’s contingent on passing a background and reference check. Background is no problem, but I don’t know how in-depth they’ll go in hunting down references, and I left on bad terms with a manager two jobs ago (he was a not very functioning alcoholic and assaulted a coworker, and I left without turning in notice because I was afraid to work with him).

    I’ve already responded that I will have to give notice at my current job at XX date and will contact them before then to confirm they’ve conducted the checks to their satisfaction. This was two days ago and I’ve asked my references to let me know if/when they get contacted. No one has been yet and their HR contact who is handling this never responded to my email.

    I’m not comfortable turning in notice at my current job until this is resolved, but that would mean having to push back my start date and New Job is very anxious to have someone in the position before their annual conference at the end of July.

    1. Emi.*

      Can you give them a heads-up about that particular manager, so they have your side of the story first?

      1. CMDRBNA*

        I already accepted the offer, with the caveat that I’d be confirming with them that the background check and reference check was complete before finalizing leaving my current company. They have seven business days before that date.

        It didn’t come up in the interviews, I wasn’t there that long, and the job was several years ago and not the most relevant of my jobs to this role. It’s just frustrating that the offer was contingent – which the HR manager didn’t tell me before sending the offer letter. I do have references from that job, just not that particular person. They’re not even at the same university, having been invited to leave after so many lawsuits.

        I’m meeting with my new team next week so I’ll hopefully get an update then. I’m hoping the HR manager just gets her part done next week and this is settled.

  44. desertfawn*

    I’ve come to the realization that I can’t stand my new-ish co-worker.

    He’s gross, rude, lazy, and I loathe sharing a small office with him. I get to work an hour before he does and my stomach hurts when he walks through the door. Just before he gets here I put on big noise-canceling headphones because he’s yapping away as soon as he walks in…i’ve started becoming rude towards him and when he talks i’ll either ignore him or let him know i’m busy but it doesn’t help.

    He passes gas and belches constantly throughout the day and stare at me through the cubicle window trying to get my attention. We share work and he frequently says he doesn’t feel like working and watches Netflix on his phone. Today I’m working away and thought he wasn’t in his chair – nope, watching Netflix. I was startled when I got up and saw him because he hadn’t moved in 45 minutes. Supervisor knows all of this (had also seen it himself) and still gave him a perfect score on his evaluation and took him off of new employee probation.

    He used to frequently make comments about our female coworkers and blamed it on the culture of his last job. We work in the public sector/local govt and I told him we don’t talk like that here. When he didn’t stop, I went to my supervisor who sat coworker down and told him I turned him in.

    I can’t move offices and I’m stuck with him. I love my job but i’ve been looking at other opportunities lately. Sorry, I’m just venting. I’ve done all I can do and i’ve been shown that nothing will ever change and i’m just mad.

      1. desertfawn*

        I wonder the same thing every day. He said it was an issue with conflicting personalities and not an issue with a 44 year old man ripping farts in a small office.

        1. Not Today Satan*

          Wow @ that guy being middle aged. I was picturing someone in his early 20s (not that his behavior would be ok at any age).

    2. Liet-Kynes*

      “Supervisor knows all of this (had also seen it himself) and still gave him a perfect score on his evaluation and took him off of new employee probation.”

      Supervisor gotta supervise.

      1. desertfawn*

        He’s one of them “hands off” kinda guys. We come to him with problems even if he notices them himself. He knew the comments on women made me uncomfortable and waited 3.5 months to address it.

    3. Gandalf the Nude*

      Has he continued the gross comments about women? Take it back to your supervisor, and if supervisor still doesn’t handle appropriately, kick it up to HR. I’d be livid if I heard a manager had done that.

    4. Emi.*

      Your coworker sucks and isn’t going to change.

      Your boss sucks and isn’t going to change.

      In government, you probably have HR, right? Have you talked to them?

    5. Canonymous*

      Could you frame it to your supervisor as “I’m trying to get tasks done and meet work obligations, but Coworker isn’t covering his share and it’s resulting in delays (or whatever else). How would you like me to handle this?”

      If you’re asked for specifics, you can be blunt: he has stated he doesn’t feel like working; he watches movies on his phone for up to 45 minutes at a time; he stares at you to try to get your attention; etc…

      If you’re told that this is the way it is, and nothing will change, you could take it at face value and ignore your coworker, wear your earplugs, and communicate with him in writing only (so you don’t have to face him and watch him be annoying).

      If you hear him continue with comments about female coworkers, you could reply in cold tones like you have before: we don’t talk like that here; why would you say that; why would you think we would want to hear that; don’t talk about women that way around us; etc…

  45. De Minimis*

    I found out a couple of weeks ago I was turned down for the federal jobs at my previous agency. I guess they may have had another person in mind, though I haven’t officially received a disposition letter for one of the jobs. The HR person told me though that a selection had already been made.

    I’m more or less okay with it, I wasn’t really looking forward to relocating cross country again, but I’m still pretty disenchanted with my current job. I’ve applied for a position close to where I currently live, we’ll see what happens, though I’m starting to resign myself to maybe being in this position long term.

    The only thing that really bugs me about not getting the federal position is that this was probably my last opportunity to rejoin as far as my plans for retirement timing. I have nearly 10 years of service, but I’m old enough to where unless I rejoined within the next year or two, I’d probably have to work longer than I really want to in order to have a decent retirement from them. So it’s probably pretty much over with.

    My current job actually has really good retirement, but I don’t enjoy the work.

  46. AdAgencyChick*

    Fortunately, this turned out to be a hypothetical, but it almost wasn’t.

    An employee takes a week vacation, and makes an effort to “turn off” (i.e., not checking email or calling in). During that week, a meeting is scheduled for the first day that employee would be back in the office, for a start time earlier than people are normally expected to be in the office.

    Is it on the employee to find out about the meeting so that she shows up on time, or on the meeting organizers to make sure she finds out?

    1. fposte*

      I think that comes under “just one of those things” rather than being on one or the other.

    2. Rebecca*

      I think if the meeting organizer could reach out via phone, and leave a message on home voice mail, that would be OK, that way, when the employee gets home, they would find out. I know I’d appreciate that, so I didn’t have to slog through email, etc. on a Sunday night when I was trying to decompress from a week away. Plus, a good part of my vacation joy would be shot if I arrived at the office, at my normal time, to find out I missed a meeting and no one told me.

      1. fposte*

        Ah, are we thinking of a situation where everybody knows the out employee’s plan and pattern? In my department nobody’d be keeping track of such a thing.

        1. Rebecca*

          I work in a small office, and I’d tell the people who normally back up my work when I’m out that I wouldn’t be online until I returned on Monday, for instance. Plus, my out of office message would read “out of the office until June XX with no access to email”. I was thinking if the person organizing the meeting knew, that would be a nice head’s up, or if a coworker caught wind of it, they could reach out as well.

        2. AdAgencyChick*

          At most agencies in my niche of advertising, people roll in around 9:30 AM, sometimes even a little later.

          This was a client conference call scheduled for 9 AM.

        3. Thlayli*

          If they use outlook they would be able to see that she is off until that day and also that she hasn’t accepted the invite.

          1. fposte*

            In an office where everybody uses Outlook, yes. That’s not all offices (it’s not mine).

            1. Thlayli*

              Oh I wasn’t saying all office’s are like that – I got the impression from your comment that you didn’t realise this is a very common thing and/or didn’t know how it worked, so I was just explaining that to you.

    3. De Minimis*

      Unless it’s some kind of emergency, they should schedule the meeting well enough in advance to where the employee would already know about it prior to the vacation. This is assuming the employee scheduled the vacation far in advance and that everyone knew about it, which is probably the case [my job requires people to have things like that on Google calendar.]

      1. an.on*

        I’m a project manager and lead approximately 30 projects at a time, and participate in an additional 10 or so a month that I’m not the lead on. We have a 3 week turnaround SLA from submission to launch and every project requires a handoff meeting with a group of approx 5 core partners representing different teams before we can start building out the project plan. I schedule about 15 meetings a week, usually with a 1-3 day lead time, and often when calendars are packed I am forced to schedule a 7:30 or 8am meeting for the west coasters. If I’m scheduling a short notice meeting that falls outside of a partner’s core working hours or if I know they’re out of office and may not see a last minute early morning meeting invite, I call them directly and email them to let them know and make sure I have confirmation they’re attending before wasting all of the other attendees’ time by holding a call where we’re not sure if everyone is coming. Saying that meetings should be scheduled prior to the employee’s vacation unless it’s an emergency situation doesn’t make sense in many work environments. My calendar for 2 weeks from now is literally empty aside from 3 weekly meetings that don’t change – but by end of next week, I’ll have three to six 15-30 min meetings scheduled per day for the following week. One size does not fit all here. :)

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, this is more what I’m thinking of, and I don’t have access to everybody’s schedule, either. This would be the time that got the most people able to make it; if Jane-the-vacationer’s presence was absolutely required, I’d have pinned that down in a side conversation with her, but sometimes we just have to go ahead and cross our fingers that the non-responders can make it.

    4. Sualah*

      I had a coworker who always takes a three week (15 work day) trip to California with his family every year. Uses a good chunk of his PTO, but that is his thing. Always does it. (We start with 23 days and increases as you get years of service and he currently has 28 days, so he has some for the rest of the year but it can get dicey around December.)

      Anyway, while he was gone, we moved from a casual to business casual dress code, and then on the day he came back, a VIP was also visiting the office so we were very nicely dressed. Coworker strolled in (straight from the plane!) in shorts and a T-shirt. Our manager did her best to hide him for the day.

    5. Salyan*

      It’s not on either. If the meeting organizers wanted the employee there, they should have scheduled better. It is not reasonable either to expect the employee to check in while she’s on vacation, or for the company to contact her outside of business hours (or again, while she’s on vacation).

    6. Epsilon Delta*

      I am planning a week long vacation soon and I can tell you that I will not be going through my emails on Sunday night on the off-chance that someone invited me to a meeting at 7 AM on Monday. My out-of-office message will be on, so they’ll know I won’t get the invite till I log in at my regular time. If they need me at the meeting, their options are (1) schedule it during my working hours as displayed in Outlook (and not first thing in the morning while I wade through emails!), or (2) reach out to me directly and ask if I can attend.

    7. RJBP*

      I work a later shift of sorts than most people here. I block off my calendar in the mornings as out of office. When I’m on vacation, I make sure my out of office message is set to trigger for the morning I return until my arrival time, and I usually specify what time I expect to be on. i.e., “I will return on Wednesday, June 21st at 10 am.”

      Given that? I’d hope the meeting organizer wouldn’t schedule something for Wednesday at 9. If they did, I’d put the responsibility on them to make sure I knew about it.

    8. Snorlax*

      When I take vacation, I block out my work calendar for the first couple of hours of the day I get back so people won’t schedule me for meetings during that time. I do that because I once had an experience like the one you describe, where someone sent me a meeting invitation while I was in vacation for a meeting to occur first thing in the morning in the day I returned. Even though I had an out of office auto-reply and did not accept the meeting invitation, the meeting organizer was surprised when I later told her what she’d done.

    9. Thlayli*

      If she is not normally in until 9am, I would take it that her holiday is until 9am. It’s totally unreasonable to expect her to call work just in the offchance someone has booked an early meeting.

      Even if they weren’t on leave if you are booking meetings at an hour people are usually not in the office (early, late or lunch) then it is on the meeting organiser to make sure people have actually been informed. Lots of people wait until they get in in the morning to see what’s in their calendar for the day. If I planned an early morning meeting I would check in with everyone the day before to remind them.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      To me this is a matter of logic. If the organizers want this employee there, then someone has to call him up. We talk a lot about toxic workplaces and some of the things we point to are that the employees cannot unplug on vacation and/or that the employees are supposed to know via telepathy that they need to show up early on Monday.

      If no one wants to call him, then the answer is to expect him to join the meeting in progress. Catch him up later.

  47. lisalee*

    I’m applying for a new job and I’ve run into two issues I’ve not had before…any thoughts?

    1. The listed salary range is huge (25k-50k). I would happily accept anything in the higher end of that range, but I don’t want to do a cross-country interview if the salary is too low. When is the right stage to ask for a more specific number? during the phone interview? If I am invited to an in-person interview? FWIW I meet 100% of their minimum and desired qualifications.

    2. My current job was originally meant to be temporary. I was hired as part-time and told it was very unlikely I would be made full-time. Surprisingly, I was made full time only a few months in. I’ve now been here 9 months, but it’s not exactly what I’m looking for and there are some changes coming down the pipeline that I’m not super happy about. Overall though, I have no big reason to be leaving (unlike if it was still part-time). How do I explain my quick departure? Is “this was originally a part time job I took while continuing to look for a position in my desired area of the country” a good answer? Should I just focus on why I’m excited about this new position?

    2. lisalee*

      ETA: There is an “anticipated salary” listed, but it appears to just be the middle of the two ends of the range. This position is at a university, so I am assuming that number is just a default/automatic average for the listing, unless someone knows more about how those things are determined?

    3. JulieBulie*

      Unless you have a grievance or observation that you want your employer to be aware of in your exit interview, it is better to focus on how excited you are about the new position. I guess you can say more if they really want you to, but they’re the ones who said you’d be temporary and part-time. It should not surprise them that you ended up being temporary!

      1. LisaLee*

        Ah, I meant how to answer the “why are you applying here after only 9 months at your old job” from the new place. Thank you for the advice though, I hadn’t thought about the exit interview!

    4. Fabulous*

      If they do a phone screen, I’d ask then. If they skip that part, I’d ask when they call you to schedule an in-person interview. You could say, “I’d love to schedule an interview! Before we set everything up, I have a question about the listed salary range. I understand that the final number will obviously depend on a person’s experience, but since the listed range quite a large, I want to make sure we’re on the same page. I’m looking for a salary of around $X. With my experience, does it make sense to continue?”

  48. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

    Self reviews. How do you treat them?

    I’m never sure what to do with my review. I’m a deeply self-reflective person and would love to use it to genuinely interrogate my year, take notice of things I would do differently, lift up the work of which I am most proud. Basically, I’d love to make it a real tool to improve my performance.

    But it’s directly connected to my bonus. I write my review, my boss uses it to write her review, and I get a score from 1-5 that translates directly into a percentage-of-my-salary bonus. I want the money. Without question, I deserve it. But the specific format of any review is imperfect and doesn’t capture the full value of the work I did; besides, if I use the review to scrutinize and learn from my failures that puts them in the forefront of my manager’s thinking about my performance.

    Our review process could be better, and the nuances of my past year create specific challenges (as would anyone’s specifics) of course, but I think this dilemma is universal. How do you handle it?

    1. AndersonDarling*

      I just talk about each one of my goals and how I accomplished them. I think that is all your manager wants…then they don’t have to write it down because you did it for them.

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        Ours are based around competencies, not goals (that’s a whole other conversation), and definitely intended to be reflective. :/

    2. Susan*

      Why don’t you do a full-blown, self-reflective review of your performance for yourself — and use it to improve yourself in the next year — but give a more positive spin to the one you provide to your boss? Obviously, don’t lie or claim to be perfect, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with presenting your performance in the best light to make a case for getting a good bonus.

    3. De Minimis*

      We’re supposed to at least write a page, though we have a format that helps guide the process [basically the series of different qualities that we’re expected to demonstrate, that are pretty much universal—cooperation, communication, initiative, etc…]

      As much as I would hate to go through the whole thing more than once a year, I think it would be more useful as a development tool if we could do it quarterly or at least mid-year, to at least give an opportunity to reflect over the course of the year. Right now it mainly serves to give goals for the following year. I’d like to just have something maybe a couple of other times a year where we could just write self-assessments of how things were going so far.
      Right now only new hires get that [a mini-evaluation at six months] , and sometimes not even then.

      One thing I did like about my private sector job was that people often had mini-reviews/evaluations at the end of any given project. All of that was compiled at the end of the year.

  49. Danae*

    I dropped out of consideration for a job that I likely would have gotten this week, and I am second-guessing myself like whoa.

    This particular job would have been a great opportunity for my career, I would have been making more money than I ever have, and I would have been miserable. I am currently attempting to wrangle massive, resistant-to-treatment anxiety that has its roots in a very high-stress job I had a few years ago. The manager for this position apparently really wanted me on board, but they were very up-front with me that the job is high-visibility and high-pressure.

    The thing is, I *could* do this job. No matter how bad my anxiety gets, I’m always functional at work. The problem is that being functional at work when I’m having slow-moving panic attacks every day means that I’m not functional in any other realm of my life–I stop seeing friends, I stop doing anything fun, I stop cleaning my house, and I stop working on my art. I end up basically living to work, which isn’t a recipe for a happy life for me.

    I’m trying to tell myself that this was the best decision I could have made, but the anxiety-troll in the back of my head is yelling “MISTAAAAAAAKE!!”

    1. k*

      I just took myself out of the running for a job as well, and I’m feeling the same way. There were a lot of red flags in the hiring process, and I came to the conclusion that it wasn’t a good fit for me. Of course as soon as I did this, a bunch of things happened at my current job that were great examples of why I want to leave. I just have to keep reminding myself that I didn’t make this decision without putting a great deal of thought into it, and I had many valid reasons to make this decision.

      I have this thing very drilled into my head that you never turn down an opportunity. Which sounds good on paper, but in reality, not very opportunity is good. I’ve been coming back to the advice I’ve learned here on AAM that hiring is a two way process, that as much as the employers are picking us, we have to pick them too. From what you’ve said, it sounds like you made a good decision not picking this job.

    2. No Name Yet*

      The anxiety troll is trolling you. You clearly have a very good sense of how you function and how your anxiety impacts you, and I’ll bet you are absolutely correct about what would have happened. Put your energy now into wrangling your anxiety and living your life (where work is just one part of that), and in the future you’ll have a much better sense if you could do a job like that and still stay balanced. (Also, I love the term ‘anxiety troll’!)

    3. Rainy, PI*

      I just accepted a new job and have been doing the same intermittent freak-out about leaving my old role, which paid a lot better, but is being moved into a new department where I would be much less happy. In the early days after the move was announced, I didn’t like the way leadership in the new dept were talking about my grant and my team. I didn’t like the way they were attempting to sweeten the internal move for our external partner by promising cost cutting measures that are illegal and contrary to institutional and government policy. I didn’t like the fact that they were so ignorant about my grant and the program it funds that they kept asking the wrong questions and not listening to me when I’d gently try to provide the information they *should* have been asking for. I was offered a role that would let me stay in my current (amazing, functional, supportive, wonderful, collegial) department, doing exactly the kind of work that is my favourite part of my current role (and which New!Boss referred to dismissively in our first meeting as “value added, I guess, but we won’t be needing that”).

      I’m still freaking out a little. Though New!Boss’s reaction to my giving notice really did validate my decision, and my hope is that my departure will keep my team safer for a little while as they have all the institutional knowledge now, and I know I’m going to be happier all around…the pay cut worries me, mostly because I too have that ingrained “never go backward” thing. I keep telling myself it’s not a backward step in the long run–far from it, in fact–but it’s not helping my anxiety about having possibly made the wrong decision.

    4. Gingerblue*

      I think it sounds like a smart choice. Those other benefits–higher pay, career advancement–are ultimately things that sound good because they lead to a happier, more fulfilling life and career, right? If they come with a big dose of misery, that negates the benefits you would otherwise get from them. If you had a specific reason to take the job (you needed the money, it would be a necessary career step on the way to other jobs that wouldn’t make you miserable) and you knew you could start looking to move on after a year or two, I might say go for it, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case.

      I would be second-guessing myself too, but from this distance it sounds like you made a very rational and self-aware calculation of the benefits and downsides of this job. Not everone could resist the dazzle of more money even if they knew it was a bad idea!

    5. Bess*

      Sounds like you did a great job listening to yourself. The slow-motion panic attack is a great way to describe it and, yes, completely affects your ability to function in a healthy way outside of work.

      My last job was high-visibility, high-pressure, but high (for me) pay–I was still out of there in just over a year because it was wrecking the rest of my life in the ways you describe. If you know you have anxiety, I think it’s pretty smart to avoid those types of jobs, if you are able to decline that kind of a raise. I actually ended up using some of that higher salary to stress-shop, so it evened out more than it might have.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Just because you can does not mean you should. Please consider this. I can come over tomorrow and clean your house top to bottom for you. But that does not mean I should. Nor does it mean I want to. It just means I have the ability to do this, I MUST chose not to offer and not to do it.

      And please consider your own needs first in decision making. Learn to take care of you. Learn to use the NO word. When we do not take proper care of ourselves and our surroundings we can leave ourselves wide open for problems with anxiety. I have read a lot about how clutter adds to feelings of anxiousness. And that is one example of how failure to do self care leaves us vulnerable.

      Your jobs were running your life, now you are choosing to run your own life instead of your workplace. Let life and living begin, again, I say.

  50. New Bee*

    I recently started a new job, and on Monday there’s a conference for all administrators (I’m part of a charter network with schools across the state). I saw the invite list and realized my mentor from when I first started teaching is now an admin at another school in the network.

    Years ago, she friended me on Facebook (not long after the mentorship ended, iirc), and posted something homophobic on her page. I can’t remember what it was exactly, but I know it was religion-based. I commented something like “Pretty sure bigotry isn’t very Jesus-like” and unfriended her. I was particularly pissed because one of her fellow mentors at my school site (and someone who’s was/still is a close friend) is a gay man, and I found it hypocritical how she talked so much about how she “loved X, he was so fun, they were so close, blah” while posting about his eternal damnation.

    Thanks to last week’s post, I’m ready to utilize Ms. Manners’ levels of cool, and it’s a tossup whether she’ll even recognize me, since I now have my married last name. Plus, avoidance should be easy enough given group size, but talk about a small world!

    1. Iris Eyes*

      You may want to do some introspection and question how reasonable it is to be so against someone for being against someone else. Throwing out a relationship just because they might disagree with you on something and holding it against them for years seems a little over the top, especially when you witnessed them behaving well toward someone that you assume they have such loathing for.

      Certainly be aware of issues that may come up where you know her thinking may be biased (she may advocate certain things about how to treat trans students for instance) and be prepared to push back on those as your conscience dictates.

      1. KatieKate*

        I’m pretty sure homophobia is an okay dealbreaker for a relationship. And I “know” plenty of “oh he doesn’t count” bigots. Still bigots.

      2. New Bee*

        I’m sorry, this is just a silly comment. Even if I were a homophobia apologist, the last person I’d make excuses for would be someone I spent 6 weeks with over 6 years ago.

        Perhaps this anecdote triggered some of your own beliefs about what bigotry looks like (and maybe the “don’t discriminate against me for being discriminatory” trope)–if you are interested in learning, there are great resources online about why that’s a problematic approach.

      3. Sylvia*

        I think it’s okay to “throw out a relationship” with a bigot, even if you’ve seen them behave decently when it suited them.

        I agree on being prepared to push back.

  51. Tim*

    Does anyone who uses Office 365 know a good alternative to google forms? Apparently only the educational version has something similar, so we’re going to need to do this differently and aren’t sure where to start.

    Our main use for google forms right now is account requests – vendor submits the info for their new employee, and that goes into a spreadsheet where they can see when the new account is processed. I need the standardized responses you can get from a form. Suggestions for doing this via Office 365? Part of the problem is we’re not sure yet what level of access the vendors will have, so ideally it would be something where they just need a link…

    1. Amadeo*

      I just checked my Office 365 tiles and there is a ‘forms’ tile there, along with a share button. The whole thing looks very similar to Google Forms, but I’ve not had call to use it yet. Maybe start there if no one else has a better suggestion.

      1. Tim*

        We don’t have access to that in our version, for whatever reason, and nobody really knows why. We’re trying to find out, but I don’t think the company would allow vendor access to it anyway.

    2. an.on*

      does it have to be Office? I’ve experimented with a lot of online form sites; google forms was a good starting off point for me when i first needed to create project intake forms but we grew out of it and I ended up using Formsite. It was really robust and I loved it! Not sure what’s right for you but worth a quick google search to see what free options are out there for you if you’re not limited to using Office. :)

      1. Tim*

        It’s supposed to be just Office, but we might have some leeway considering most people don’t actually have access to current versions of office on their computers and nobody knows when that will happen (it’s still Office 2007). I’ll look into it!

    3. Clever Name*

      We use outlook task requests and one department has created a macro-enabled excel form that generates an email (and presumably other things on their end) for requests.

  52. Big Time Screw Up*

    So I just screwed up big time and I’m a month into a new job. I agreed last week to cover a coworker out on vacation on a client call this Thursday and take detailed notes. When it came up on my calendar 7 days after speaking with my coworker, I didn’t remember exactly what it was for and I was working on an urgent deliverable for EOD, so I asked my manager why I was included and if I could focus on the urgent deliverable. She didn’t know why I was included and said to focus on what was due today.
    This morning my stomach dropped 10 feet when I realized what I had missed. I feel so awful that I had such a big miss during my first month! I don’t normally miss calls or meetings. I want to raise it to my manager and my coworker and apologize and see how I can make it right. I’m not sure how I could recreate the notes. The only other colleague on the phone is the Senior VP and I doubt the call was recorded.

    1. NaoNao*

      Contact the people on the call personally and explain the situation, without saying you dropped the ball, and ask for a few quick, key bullet points of the call.
      Some bullet points are better than none!
      Also, get in touch with the coworker and let them know what happened ahead of time, including the urgent deliverable, and apologize profusely.
      I would then include a “how I plan to avoid this mistake again” note; something like “I am so sorry this happened, in the future I’ll be sure to include a note on my calendar reminding me of the ask.”

    2. Malibu Stacey*

      When I do something totally new like that because I am covering for a coworker, I put that in the subject of the meeting: “Call in to North Region Teapot Meeting for Susan”

  53. Nervous Accountant*

    Is it bad that I don’t want to leave my current company yet? I’ve been here about 2.5 years (will be 3 in December). I know here that’s normal or job hopping but at my company it’s such high turnover that most ppl leave in 6 months-1 year.

    The thing is, that I’m just not looking to leave; right now I’m focusing on personal things and I just can’t take the disruption of a new job. I know I can make more at other places, but something’s keeping me here. Plus, I cherish the routine and comfort so far? I guess I”m just not as ambitious as I thought I was?

    It’s not like I’ve not gotten opportunities or I’m not searching. I got one from an old friend but I turned it down because it was in the middle of tax season.

    I just turned one down this week–I felt bad about talking to the recruiter, but I tried to make it up by offering to tell my other coworkers who are looking.

    Both times, they initiated contact, both had either commute or salary better than my current, and and we were in talks until it was time to meet for an interview. I feel bad about entertaining only to turn it down, but…idk. Should I talk to them? Should I go on interviews any way just to keep my skills up to date? I haven’t had to update my resume in about 2 years until now. Is it appropriate to pass this info to coworkers?

    1. Sibley*

      Is the personal life stuff temporary? I bought a house recently, didn’t want to make any big changes beforehand for that reason. If it’s more permanent, then it’s different. Don’t underestimate how much a better commute can help everything else.

      Yes, it’s fine to refer people you know to recruiters, either directly or indirectly.

      I just updated my resume for the first time in 3 years this week.

      And ask yourself – what does your current employer do to demonstrate their loyalty to you? You owe no more than what they show you.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Well, I’m trying to start a family, and a huge part of that includes fixing some underlying issues before I can even conceive and carry healthy. Ideally I’d really like to go on mat leave from here and then either come back or start fresh elsewhere.

        It’s not so much that I love my current company as much as I like the life I’ve built around having it so far.

        1. over educated*

          I think that’s a really good reason to stay put if you’re happy enough. One major life disruption at a time is plenty (says someone who has tried to do too many at once).

        2. Bess*

          Oh man, it’s fine to stay put while you deal with this very big other thing! That’s a huge reason not to add job-hunting/changing to your list!

          Sometimes you need routine and comfort in one area of life to balance another–doesn’t sound like a lack of ambition to me!

    2. Camellia*

      There is nothing wrong with staying at a job more that 2.5 years, especially if it is currently meeting your needs on other levels, and it sounds as though this job is doing that for you. Enjoy the fact that your job is comfortable (not stressful!) during a time when your personal life is not-so-much. And I wouldn’t even worry about ‘going on interviews to keep up your skills’. You read AAM! Your skills will be there when you need them!

  54. Sibley*

    I was traveling for work last week (at a really HORRIBLE time in my personal life), and asked to flex time on Thursday since I wouldn’t be home till late. While it eventually got approved, it was a massive hassle and they didn’t really want to. I’m a professional, I get my work done well and timely. For goodness sake, they promoted me a few months ago! This nitpicking on stuff is really driving me nuts. They’re really not WFH friendly, unless you’re mgmt of course, then you can do whatever you want. And while the pay is good, the non-health care benefits suck when compared to my peers at other companies. I get a full week less of PTO than all of my friends in the same field.

    Long story short, the camel’s back was broken by the insignificant straw. The weight is mgmt style. I updated my resume this week, am going to go over it again tonight, and send it to a recruiter I’m in touch with. We’ll see what I find.

    1. Camellia*

      That sucks. They should fix that. Since they won’t, good luck with your job search!

    2. Clever Name*

      For me, flexibility is huge. I love that I can leave at noon on a Tuesday to attend my kid’s field day at school and make up the time later in the week. And seriously, not even allowing you to come in to work late the day after getting in late for work travel? That’s really crappy.

  55. TheLazyB*

    Most Fridays, if I email people outside of my team, at the end of the conversation I’ll say ‘enjoy your weekend when it arrives!’ Is this a) normal, b) slightly weird but nice, or c) I should stop?

    No one has said anything (other than “thank you you too!”) but I’m curious :)

    3. Emi.*

      I think the “when it arrives” is a little odd, but not in a bad way. I just say “enjoy your weekend” and assume that they’ll ave the good sense to put off following this instruction until the actual arrival of the weekend. ;)

      1. TheLazyB*

        I should probably have clarified: if it’s the morning I add that on. If it’s the afternoon I just say enjoy your weekend :)

        Your last sentence made me giggle!

      2. Mints*

        Ha! I think the wording is very slightly weird, but on the same level as “She really likes beets” meaning I don’t really care and doesn’t affect my opinion of you

    4. LCL*

      I love it, because it acknowledges shiftworkers and everyone else who doesn’t work 9-5.

  56. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

    Thank you all for the tips last week (maybe two weeks ago? my sense of time is all off!) on how to deal with being SO SLEEPY during early pregnancy while at work.

    Unfortunately, the problem shifted to vomiting all the time (even worse for work than fatigue), and now drugs to resolve that have made me extra sleepy. I ended up telling up to my boss WAY earlier than I intended–he started excitedly talking about plans for the winter/spring and I was making my “I need to not puke now” face. He asked me what gives, since I had been super excited about these plans when we had talked previously. I was too tired to come up with a good lie, and so I just blurted out, “I’m pregnant, but just very newly so, so there’s like a 80% chance I won’t be at work in February/March, and it’s really hard for me to not puke at this moment.” He’s been 100% reasonable about it, but it’s definitely been weird to have him be the first person to know beyond my husband and medical providers.

    Anyways, thanks for the advice! Early pregnancy is hard, and working during it is even harder :(

      1. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

        Thanks! I just keep hoping I’m one of the folks who feels better before the end of the first trimester. I hear the fatigue lifts for some people around 11-12 weeks, and that’s only 4-5 weeks away!

        1. Ann O.*

          For many women, the first trimester symptoms of both fatigue and nausea go away once the fetus is connected to the placenta. Odds are in your favor! Good luck!

    2. Friday*

      Best of luck to you! I’m in the same boat and rounding the corner slooowly on the nausea peak. I’m adamant that I want to keep the news buttoned down until I get the genetic testing results back which won’t be for three more weeks.

    3. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      I’d really love to see a poll on how many bosses found out their reports were pregnant from nausea. My direct boss found out when I had to dive for the trash can at his feet during a meeting. His eyes bugged out and he said, “I know what that is! You don’t say anything til you are ready, but I have 3 daughters and I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!” And my GrandBoss found out when I had to be hospitalized for hyperemesis gravidarum at 11 weeks.

      It’s a hard few weeks, but it does get better.

      1. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

        The first thing my boss said was, “Oh [wife] puked at least 5 times a day for weeks and weeks during both of her pregnancies. The term ‘morning sickness’ is a lie.”

        My guess is a lot of bosses find out that way. So far, I’ve only puked twice at work, but I’ve been working from home a lot.

        1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

          Grandboss did suggest I take an afternoon nap on the couch in an office several times, so I suspect his wife had him trained when she was pregnant with both of their kids.

          1. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

            My husband has been SO SURPRISED at how hard the past two weeks have been on me. I 100% knew this was a possibility. I thought I told him. But I do think that a lot of people just have no idea how bad early pregnancy can be.

      2. Witty Nickname*

        My boss was in a different state, but two of my coworkers guessed immediately when I started wearing seabands to work to try to keep the nausea at bay.

        Telling that boss was really fun. I told him “I need to tell you something,” and then he panicked that I was giving my notice. Maternity leave seemed like the best news ever compared to that.

      3. QualityControlFreak*

        I worked on the upper floor of a building where the only restrooms were on the ground floor. My boss at the time had kids; he knew the drill. He later told me he was so sorry every time he saw me flying down those stairs. He worked in another building on base, but would check on my work group every day. If he was coming up the stairs as I was running down he’d just hug the wall. Hang in there, it does get better.

    4. Another preggo lady*

      I feel you. I had pretty bad morning sickness during my first trimester and was just short of bedridden for two weeks and ended up ‘confessing’ to my boss much earlier than I was intending to. And, yes, it was very weird having him know before my parents did!

      1. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

        Yes, I’m telling my parents this weekend when I’ll be visiting them. In the meeting I just had with my boss, he asked if he could tell other people yet! And I said, “Nope!”

        But at the same time, it’s really hard to hide how sick I am…

      2. zora*

        I think pregnant humans have been being outed by their own bodies since the beginning of time. My former MIL figured out I was pregnant years ago when I wasn’t even sure yet, because she saw me and could tell how awful i felt and immediately guessed why. I think it’s a bit of a myth that a pregnant person can completely control the dissemination of that information, we can try, but there’s only so much you can do.

        1. Another preggo lady*

          I still think the ‘noticing because you’re sick’ still beats how my brother guessed though. When I called him up to tell him, his answer was pretty much “Congrats….although I already knew because last time I saw you, you turned down both wine and coffee and that’s, erm, let’s just say that’s very unlike you”

          Yeah, thanks sibling. (Although my boss also joked that people might guess because I was no longer drinking coffee so thanks all round, I guess…)

          1. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

            A real concern of mine is that someone at work could guess because my boobs are already noticeably larger. I’m trying to hide it with wardrobe choices, but I’m already up two cup sizes!

            I hope no one is looking at my boobs carefully enough to notice…

    5. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

      I don’t know to count this as a pregnant-at-work- win or a fail, but I just managed to not barf through my 3pm meeting and instead barf in the 15 minutes between that and my 4pm, still making it to my 4pm meeting on time.

  57. Punkwich*

    Do managers really view Friday or Monday sick days with suspicion? I’ve always extra avoided taking either a Friday or Monday sick even when I’m sick because I feel like my manager assumes I just partied too hard or want a long weekend – but do they actually? I mean like a once in a blue moon Friday sick day, not like consistent ones.

    1. paul*

      not if they’re good managers.

      I mean yeah if you call out a Friday or Monday every month people are gonna notice eventually, but once in a blue moon? Not if they’re decent.

    2. Rainy, PI*

      I’ve never had a good manager who was like that. And it would never occur to me if a report called/emailed in sick on a Friday or Monday that they wanted a long weekend. I assume they’d take vacation for that. Which I would approve of course.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Look at it this way – Monday & Friday are 40% of the work week. If 40% of your sick time is on those days, I’d say that is normal. If 90% of your sick time is Monday or Friday, then I would probably be suspicious.

    4. Dead Quote Olympics*

      I can tell you as someone who supervises that I would only notice if it became a consistent pattern. If someone on staff had already established that pattern, and you were new, then I might notice right away (fear of a repeat that I would then have to deal with) but if no pattern followed, I would stop paying attention. In my experience that particular pattern goes along with other slacker-related work issues also, so if you don’t have those, even less reason for me to notice.

      Parents of small children can confirm that they always run fevers on either Thursday night (Friday sick day) or Sunday night (Monday sick day). It is known.

      1. KAZ2Y5*

        Their fever/illness actually never starts until Friday at 5:05 when the dr’s office is already closed for the weekend. Ask any retail pharmacist.

        1. Dead Quote Olympics*

          Yeah, there’s that too — the gamble on Friday that the little cough/sniffle/fussiness isn’t going to lead to an urgent care visit on Friday night. Which leads to a sick day on Friday because you go to the pediatrician just to be sure. So glad my kid is in college now.

    5. zora*

      Ugh, seconding the “not if they’re good managers” … microbes can’t read calendars and they are just as likely to make you sick on any day of the week. Plus, sometimes I’m sick over the weekend, and that’s not very fair to me, either, so I have never thought twice about what day of the week it is if I’m sick and need to take a day.

  58. openthreadrealness*

    I am looking for some advice here. About 8 months ago, I was promoted from a receptionist position to an entry level project manager position. I was really excited about this opportunity and ready to learn as much as possible when I first started. I am still wanting to do well in this job, but now I am starting to have some reservations about it. I feel like I make way too many mistakes. I am often overwhelmed when I see the tasks I need to do. Let it be known that I want to do well in this position, so it’s not that I don’t care about my work its just that I don’t feel like I am as detail oriented as I thought I was. I seem to forget too many things despite my lists and Outlook task reminders. I don’t forget to do tasks, I just forget to do a step in the task. I’m starting to think I should only work as admin assitant positions and such. I need need to hear from people that have made a similar transition. My background (education, work experience) has nothing to do with my current position. Any thing that you weren’t doing that you realize you should have done earlier? I don’t know what to even ask. HELP!

    1. writelhd*

      Talk to your manager to prioritize what tasks need to be learned first, and, to the degree that you can, focus on those until you learn them (do the task, and all the steps.) Then, and only then, add newer tasks. Get your manager’s support on a reasonable timeline for this, and set time to check in on that timeline. Expecting to learn a bunch of new things at once IS really challenging and can make the whole thing look really overwhelming. Adopting new habits (which, honestly, is a lot of what being “detail oriented” is, building the habits of what details you need to orient to) takes time and focus.

      1. Openthreadrealness*

        Thank you! I like your thoughts on being detail oriented. I think reframing as new habits makes it seem more doable.

    2. an.on*

      This was me 15 years ago – I went from entry level coordinator to project manager doing senior level independent work very quickly, before I was ready and without a lot of training (and with an unrelated degree). Here’s something that helped me – I made myself the most INSANE checklists with every possible step that I’d need to take, no matter how simple or easy or “unforgettable” it was, and I did them for all of my recurring tasks. If the task was “get a drink of water” the steps would’ve been like “recognize thirst (alternatively, complete this task at least every other hour in order to stay hydrated before getting thirsty). stand up from desk. pick up water glass. walk to kitchen and navigate to freezer. fill glass halfway with ice. walk to water dispenser. fill remainder of glass with cold water to the very top. sip enough so the water doesn’t spill while walking. return to desk. (option to stop in restroom if necessary, see restroom process doc for task details.) place water glass on desk. sit down. resume work. set reminder task for calendar for 2 hours to get another glass of water.”

      and whenever I did that basic task, I’d look at my checklist as though I’d never done the task before, to make sure I hit every step. if I discovered some variation on the process I’d note it – like, if getting a glass of water on Friday mornings, add in option to also grab a bagel or muffin. I basically had a binder full of everything I needed to do at work, and detailed instructions for doing it all – I used it for a few months then didn’t need it anymore (but it came in handy when training new hires a year later, when that became one of my responsibilities! although, they all thought i was crazy and anal, but whatever. i trained people to be strong, detail oriented PMs!) Repetitive tasks become second nature after a while and you don’t need the reminders, and non-recurrent tasks become easier to tackle on an ad hoc basis because you already have a system and framework to break apart tasks into smaller manageable chunks.

      Good luck. :)

  59. Myrin*

    I have a question about preferences. That’s right, not references, preferences.

    I have no idea if I’m emotionally stunted or something but I’m someone who, when presented with two options, very often either genuinely doesn’t care one way or the other or who does prefer one thing but seriously doesn’t have any problems with the other, either.

    I’m like this in all aspects of life and I’m wondering about dealing with that in job interviews. I’ve encountered several times that an interviewer really pressed me for an answer where either I honestly couldn’t give one because both options are equal to me or where I ended up naming the “wrong” preference. (Just as a quick example: I have successfully worked in teams of varying degrees in all of my jobs and was completely fine with that. However, if you asked me to choose between one or the other, well, I like working by myself somewhat better than working in a team. Another example: I have one very big pro and one very big con on both sides of working at home vs. working in an office/place-that-isn’t-home. Both have one thing that really appeals to me and one thing that, well, doesn’t, and they offset each other pretty much completely.)

    How do I deal with this? Should I try to gauge what the interviewer is looking for and then pretend that it’s Absolutely My Favourite? Continue to remain “neutral” and risk interviewers not believing me/thinking I’m just trying to find an easy way out? Interview at the Headquarters of Indifference?

    1. Sibley*

      You’re not emotionally stunted, you’re just easy going and flexible in a lot of ways. People who aren’t like that often have a hard time understanding it.

      1. Myrin*

        It’s funny that you say that because I’m actually not flexible at all! I know that many people think that and that’s usually precisely because this “I don’t care either way”-attitude, but when I do have a strong preference/idea how something is to be done/schedule, I have a very, very, very hard time changing it up. I’m not at all spontaneous, either. Thinking about it, maybe that’s a different kind of flexible, but I have no idea.

    2. Squeeble*

      I would try to settle on one of the options given in these kinds of settings, and if you truly don’t care either way, go with whatever you think the interviewer or the company prefers. But you could preface it with, “Well, I think there are benefits to both, for example A gives me X and B gives me Y. But ultimately I’d prefer A, for Z reasons.”

      Unfortunately, I think saying that both options are fine and you truly don’t care either way is going to look like you haven’t really considered the issue or that you just want to appease the interviewer and get it over with.

    3. Camellia*

      I hear you, there are a lot of things that I just DON’T CARE about which one is picked. So I decided a long time ago that, in those situations, I would simply pick the second proffered choice. I pause for a moment, as though I am thinking it over, then say, “[choice two]!”. This works whether there are only two choices or there are more choices. Because most of the time it doesn’t matter which one was picked, what matters is that YOU MADE A DECISION and life goes on.

      Of course, if you do have a preference, no matter how slight, go with that one, but otherwise, you know, Choice Two!

      1. JulieBulie*

        Camellia, that’s… BRILLIANT!

        Sometimes I am in the supermarket with one can of tuna in the left hand and another can in the right hand, and I am studying the labels and comparing the calories and expiration dates as if I were deciding on the fate of the world rather than planning to someday make a sandwich.

        Or there are two items on a menu and I can’t decide between them. Again, world crisis.

        (I don’t know why both of my examples are food-related. Wait, yes I do.)

        It never occurred to me to just use something arbitrary to make a choice. Thank you, Camellia!

  60. Samantha Wasp*

    I am pursuing a degree in IT. Part of my web class will involve creating a LinkedIn profile, which I’ve never had before. Do you think I should give my supervisor a heads up that I’m only doing this for a class, so he doesn’t get wind of it and assume I’m job searching? Or is that protesting too much? I’m happy where I am and have no plans to leave.

    1. Anna*

      I have a LinkedIn profile, and I am connected to several people who are not job hunting – as in they have been with their respective companies for over a decade. They simply use it for meeting folks in their fields and keeping up with what is going on.

    2. Camellia*

      I think it is so common to have a LinkedIn profile that you don’t even need to mention it.

    3. JulieBulie*

      You can invite your supervisor to to link to you (LinkedIn will ask him to join if he’s not already in there), and you can explain in your invitation that you’re doing it for your web class. That will also show him that you weren’t trying to be sneaky.

  61. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

    I’m a department of one and am finally going on my first vacation at my job. Because of this, I need to put together some (long overdue) documentation on my volunteer database. I’m feeling a bit stuck in screenshot hell right now but I’m not sure if there is an easier way to do it. If anyone has any good systems or tips for creating documentation, I’d love to hear it!

    1. Anna Held*

      Wait, what exactly are you doing? A process memo so someone else can do your job? If so, I think screenshots are something you might need to live with. The best advice, though, is to explain each small step clearly, which means edit edit edit, and have someone else proofread and ask questions so it’s clear to a non-user. Also, provide phone numbers and email addresses of anyone who might be useful, like the database’s helpdesk.

      Don’t forget to put this in your accomplishments list! This is a big task and can be crucial, but it’s often overlooked. So it’s a great thing to bring up at your next review.

      And enjoy your vacation!

      1. Volunteer Coordinator in NOVA*

        I’m basically putting together a guide for my staff to on how to do certain tasks in the system that may need to do while I’m gone like set up a new event. I’m also just using this to push me to at least start this project as I’ve been pushing this off for awhile. Thanks for the good ideas and if we ever do reviews again, I can mention it!

    2. WG*

      Are you in an industry that shares? When I worked in higher ed, I found that universities are happy to share with each other. With one significant database upgrade, I was able to obtain documentation from universities with the same software that had upgraded before us. Their manuals already had many of the screen shots and we just had to revise the text to be our process steps.

    3. KatiePie*

      If you go into settings on your browser you can download a browser add-on called “Lightshot”. It has a purple feather icon. Once it installs in your browser it will also be listed in your program files. From the program list, you can right click it and pin it to your desktop menu bar. That puppy will screenshot literally any area you select on your screen, you size it. I LOVE THIS LITTLE GADGET WITH ALL MY PROFESSIONAL HEART.

  62. Is it just me?*

    I’ve been at my job for 10 years and my cubicle runneth over with tchotchkes. Over the years my coworkers have been generous with little gifts, and I appreciate the thought. But- snow globes with my name in glitter paint, bobblehead dolls, little figurines tied to inside jokes, plaques for years of service, miniature gizmos- they no longer give me joy. My house is small and I try to keep it clutter free. I feel guilty throwing it all away. What do you all do with such collections?

    2. Anonygoose*

      Look at Marie Kondo’s book – she’s great about getting over the mental hurdle of guilt for getting rid of things that others have given you!

    3. Jessesgirl72*

      I toss/donate, without a twinge of guilt.

      Remember, once something is given to you, it’s yours to do with what you please.

      And honestly most people aren’t going to remember the snow globe they gave you 4 years ago.

    4. paul*

      Toss them. Sometimes I’ll take them to the outdoor shooting range because reactive targets are fun (if they’re safe to shoot, not everything is).

      I’ve thrown away more random crap from work….

    5. Sadsack*

      I agree with the others here except to add…I have a very small collection of similar type gifts. I keep them off to the side on a shelf and have one or two more prominently placed in my work space. I switch them out occassionally when I think of it. You could try that with any that you have an especially hard time getting rid of.

    6. JulieBulie*

      Arrange them nicely on a table and take a picture! Someday, the photo will bring you joy.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      I have gotten rid of all but a few. I was given lots of coffee mugs, since I actually use mugs I kept them. Someone gave me a little knickknack and later she passed away. I have kept that.
      I truly could not house them all and the amount of time necessary to dust them was more than I could spend.

  63. Amber Rose*

    This week’s ridiculous work drama was solved, more or less, with the purchase of three (3) generic grey blankets and a bag to put them in.

    So here’s the logic. According to legislation, a workplace may be either high hazard, medium hazard, or low hazard. Low is like, an office. High is like, drilling and mining operations, construction, and major plants with huge machinery, that kind of thing. Medium is defined as “not either of the other two” which is just great, really, so helpful.

    The official explanation guide for the legislation says that high hazard is “any workplace where there is a possible chance of a worker being struck by mobile powered equipment.” Not probable, mind you, possible. Important distinction there.

    A car, I would argue, is mobile powered equipment.

    Any injury involving a worker on company property is considered a workplace injury. That means, even if it’s not in the course of duties, or inside the building, or not company caused. If I get killed by a car in the parking lot heading to lunch during a work day, that is a workplace fatality under legislation.

    Therefore by that logic, the only workplace that ISN’T high hazard is one where you park off site, and hike to a place that is inaccessible by car, plane, helicopter, dirt bike or drone, and then sit at a desk and use nothing more risky than an ordinary stapler.

    The guide doesn’t even say the same things as the code. The code makes no mention of powered equipment. Why does the explanation add stuff?!

    Anyways, a high hazard workplace must have blankets, so we bought some damn blankets, even though I am not convinced that we are high hazard. The only time this building ever blew up was when it was owned by a t-shirt shop, for crying out loud.

    1. paul*

      ……the only time this building blew up? Don’t most places blow up once and once only? Or never? I think I’ve gone my working life without a building blowing up.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Me too! But this building used to be five separate bays with 5 businesses, and our company slowly bought them out and converted it into our one big shop. In the middle section there used to be a t-shirt shop, and I guess one of their machines blew up and wiped out their whole thing. Not so much that the building was destroyed, but yeah.

        It’s an in-joke around here a bit, because we store deadly compressed gasses in basically every part of the building, and we’re still less hazardous than a t-shirt printer.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I wonder how many taxpayers want this type of law/control?

      Anyway, doing the most conservative thing would be to guess that you are high level, buy the blankets and get on with life. This way if you ever get questions from an auditor or an insurance person this is taken care of now.

  64. JustaTech*

    TL;DR How to phrase “This is hard and it will take time and trial and error to make” professionally?

    Long version: I’m writing a training/guidance document on how to build templates in a piece of technical software. We already have documents (that I’ve revised) on how to run the software and use existing templates, but nothing on how to build new templates. I’m completely self taught on the subject, which is why I’m making this document. One of the things I really want to get across is that working with this software this way will take some getting used to and some trial and error. But I can’t figure out how to phrase that when the usual tone of these guidance documents is very formal and formulaic.
    Right now I’m the only ‘expert’ in this, and when I am long gone I want to save whoever has to do this next (because you only need to do it every few years) from thinking that it should be easy and that they’re dumb.
    The best I’ve gotten is “Note: Experience with using existing [SOFTWARE] templates will greatly increase success when creating new templates.” and ” If possible, practice creating new, smaller templates before making a larger template.”
    I just don’t feel like I can say “This is going to be hard and time-consuming and you’ll have to start over a couple of times. That’s normal, give yourself plenty of time to build it. Good luck!” in a formal document.
    Thanks already for your suggestions!

    1. B'Elanna Torres*

      I think the notes about “practice creating new, smaller templates before making a larger template” sounds good. When working with new tech I usually assume it will be potentially hard, and will require some trial-and-error. I don’t know if you need to document that specifically.

    2. Undine*

      “Template creation can be more complex than it appears, and it can be helpful to view it as an iterative process. You will usually get better results if you start with a simple template and deploy it to a limited number of users, then make changes and enhancements based on their feedback.”

      But, you know, you can’t save people with documentation. Especially if you have to keep it formal.

      1. JustaTech*

        Oh, that’s brilliant, thank you! I know I can’t save anyone with documentation; I just want to let someone in the future know that the gap between using and making is *huge*. And give them something to point at if their boss is like “hey, make this thing by tomorrow” to bolster some push back.
        Iterative is exactly the word.

    3. Emilia Bedelia*

      Create a process flowchart, and really emphasize the “trial and error” sections (“Iterate as necessary until requirements for this step are met”)
      Add a “suggested time frame” to emphasize how time consuming it will be- something like “Allow at least XXX months for development”

      I second Undine, however- you can’t proceduralize people doing their jobs.

  65. NoMoreFirstTimeCommenter*

    I posted a few weeks ago about a writing assignment as a part of recruiting, before any interviews or even reading the applications. I did write the stuff they wanted, as I’m unemployed and I had spare time for that, so I thought there’s nothing to lose. To this day I haven’t heard back from them. It’s been long enough that I believe they’ve already picked who they want to interview and they may even have choosen already who got the job (if there indeed is a job and not only an attempt to get free texts). I’m not happy about this because I spent so much more time applying to them (writing assignment and application together) than I usually do. But on a happier note I had two interviews this week – though one of them was for a short time project job – and I was also contacted by a staffing agency where I had applied previously, about a temp job that isn’t 100% sure to exist yet but they may need people quicky if it becomes reality. So my situation looks much better than last week and there’s a realistic change that by the time the next open thread is published, I won’t be unemployed any more!

    1. JulieBulie*

      It is not safe to assume that they’ve already decided whom to interview. The place I’m at now takes a lot longer than that to get around to things.

      If it’s been a few weeks, it’s probably okay to ask if you’re still in the running.

  66. Another person*

    I just left a really dysfunctional workplace for one that seems so much better! Everyone seems nice so far but they also seem overly relieved to have someone finally filling my position (it was vacant for several months.) I worry on one hand that I’m going to end up overworked like I was in my previous role, but then I stop and think that’s just a holdover from my last job and I should give it some time and not make assumptions.

    How long does it take most people to “reset” after leaving a bad workplace?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Congratulations!

      It can take a reallllly long time to reset. For my part, I’m 6 months in to a new job after leaving my old one 10 months ago, and I still carry a lot of baggage from the old gig. (See yesterday’s thread about altered thinking for a lot of these stories!) In my case, I probably would have managed a little better if I had more work to do, not less, and therefore more opportunities to see how things are different here. But every day it gets a bit better. I’m also in therapy to deal specifically with this, and I highly recommend that if you can swing it.

  67. Manager-less and Under-utilized*

    Today marks 8 months at my current job and I’m in a strange position: I don’t have a proper manager. My current “boss” is retiring and hasn’t spoken to be in 6 months (for context he is a bit of a jerk and the retirement is forced). Until his replacement is hired I’ve been instructed to work under a different manager. The problem is, this new manager has told me she doesn’t consider me to be a part of her team (our focus areas aren’t similar at all and she only communicates with me when she thinks I’ve done something wrong). So I’ve found myself in a strange manager-less limbo where I’m feeling increasingly isolated.

    The “big bosses” of the department have told me to hold still until the replacement is hired but have been strikingly mum/secretive about the hiring process. I want to stick it out and wait for the new hire- but I’m unsure how long is too long and how much this waiting is hurting my professional growth!

  68. Anna*

    I’m 50, recently divorced and heading back into the workforce after 15 years as a SAHM. I applied for a position at my old private high school. But, it is very likely that one of my children will be attending the school’s rival due to a significant learning disability that my HS just isn’t set up to handle. Since this job is all about connections to the school and history, I have a 15 year work gap to explain, and I will have to leverage my family management skills to even get an interview, the kids are going to come up. How do I handle the one going to the rival?

    1. Stylishly Neutral Grad*

      Explaining that you have a child with special needs/a disability that the rival school has staff specifically trained to handle should be fine. The school district I attended had a school board member whose child had multiple disabilities and attended a special school. No one thought any less of the family for it. I know it’s somewhat different from your situation, but educators understand the need for students with certain challenges to be in environments with professionals who are trained in how to help students with those challenges.

    2. Friday*

      After being a SAH for ~17 years, my mom started working at the rival high school while my younger siblings were still going to our high school. There was a little good-natured ribbing, but the principal she worked for was actually my old english teacher at my HS so he already got the brunt of the teasing. My mom had a successful career there for 10 years and still has good friends from there she sees socially. Best of luck to you!

  69. B'Elanna Torres*

    I’m a programmer in education/higher-ed, and have been for ~10 years. Like many others, since I’m good at what I do, I’ve been given leadership opportunities. For the most part I’ve shot them down because I have social anxiety, and I’ve feared that I would start hating my job, having to work with people. Plus the team I would be leading contains some tougher personalities, to put it simply.

    I have two questions.
    One. I’m thinking of reaching out to a counselor to help with my anxiety. It’s really holding me back in my career, and not just with leadership roles, but also networking and overall quality of life. Anyone else have success with this? Any advice?

    Two. I know one technique to help with social anxiety is to just start being more social. Talk to others more. Ask more questions. Get to know people, etc….
    And of course I’m anxious about suddenly being more social and what others will think. Best case scenario, people will notice and just figure “Huh, that’s interesting. B’Elanna is suddenly talking more. That’s cool.”.
    If a quiet, seemingly stand-offish coworker started becoming more sociable, joining lunches, etc.. what would you think?

    1. Amber Rose*

      Much like depression, anxiety lies to you. It whispers in your ear that literally any deviation from your norm will be noticed and draw attention and make people think things about you. THINGS!

      In reality, people will just be like, oh yeah, you can totally come to lunch with us sometimes, and won’t really notice anything different, or they’ll be happy because they don’t get to talk to you much or something.

      Anxiety has blocked me for years, like a 20 foot wall. I’m half a year into treatment and that 20 foot wall is like, a four foot wall. I can see over the top, and with a little boost, I can get right over it. It’s lovely.

      2. zora*

        Yes to they really won’t notice!! People think way more about themselves than other people, they are probably all in their own heads worrying about what you think of them, rather than realizing that you are being more sociable than normal!

        And DEFINITELY find a counselor! I put off getting help for my anxiety for many many years, and finally got myself to ‘just do it’ last year, and it is making such a difference already! I just searched on Psychology Today for someone with experience with anxiety and depression, who was located close to my house, and then grabbed the first 5 off the list and started contacting them. I go every other week, and have already noticed a difference in my first thoughts when I’m feeling anxious. The anxiety hasn’t magically gone away or anything, but I feel like I have ideas of what to DO when it happens, rather than just being at the mercy of anxiety-feelings.

    2. fposte*

      I don’t know that I’d notice; if I did, I’d probably just think your workload had shifted a little or you’d hit a bit of a groove that made it more of a possibility.

    3. Bess*

      So I have social anxiety that manifests in a number of ways, and I’ve had many jobs that are people and customer related. My current job heavily involves relationships and collaborative work with people, and the people (especially any type of conflict) are what keep me up at night and make me feel sick sometimes.

      So…each job has really been different, but for me it’s about the approach and what fits with your personality, and how you get around the barrier of the anxiety. I’m not a “schmoozer” at all, but I really like working with smaller groups of people, or, better yet, 1:1, because lots of them have great ideas and it’s really interesting what collaboration can produce.

      I also try really hard to stop and notice when I’m anxious about an impending interaction (because it’s such a critical part of my work now, and really many jobs). I make myself think about what’s making me so anxious, I run conversations through my head, I “practice” if it makes me feel better, and I just generally have started to tell myself “you can do this.”

      And…really…I just kind of fake it a lot, even if a conversation is terrifying to me–maybe the way you learn to appear comfortable in an interview even if you’re anything but. Like, I don’t take on behaviors or mannerisms different from mine, and I don’t fake enthusiasm or friendliness I don’t feel, but I try hard to put a face on and participate in the conversation as if the anxious feelings don’t determine the outcome. So it’s not fake, but it’s like a performance in the energy it takes and the way you have to separate from the feelings you have.

      Another helpful thing for me, when I’m obsessing about a blip in a facial expression and I spin into “so and so thinks I’m such a drip!” mode, is either to reality check with someone or just remember people are so busy with their own stuff that even if you somehow did sound awkward, they’ll probably forget it in 5 minutes. And especially chit-chat is just that, chit-chat. It’s a low-stakes way to start getting over that barrier, and you can tell yourself you’re just going to practice it, even if it feels awkward, to get started.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      When people are quiet I tend to think that they are preoccupied with work or life stuff. I am always glad when they seem more like chatting.

  70. Anonygoose*

    I have an interview next week for a job and would be a huge step up professionally, but I’m not sure I would be able to take the job if offered. I’m currently in a low-level but stable union job at a university, with all the perks that that entails. This new job would be also at a university, but would be a 1.5 hour commute each way, and would only be a 12 month maternity leave cover, so no benefits or stability. It would be a 50% pay bump though. I’m just not sure what to do! Any advice?

    1. Not Today Satan*

      I would be very hesitant to leave a permanent job for a temporary one, unless you really hate your current job. Plus that commute sounds awful.

      1. Anonygoose*

        My only hangup is that it’s my exact dream job, what I’ve wanted to do since leaving uni.

        1. Anony Mouse*

          As it’s only a 12-month contract, do you think the experience would help you to find a similar role at another institution (perhaps closer to home)?

          Only you can decide if the commute is doable for you. In my case, when I got married and moved from college town to capital city, I spent 9 months commuting an hour each way (60 miles, highway driving). Had a fulfilling job and amazing boss and coworkers, but the driving plain wore me out. On the other hand, it might be doable if you know there’s an end in sight.

          1. Anonygoose*

            Yeah if it weren’t for the commute I’d be all for this. But I really hate driving, and winter driving in Canada can be precarious, so I’m not sure if it’s worth it.

            I’m also having trouble because I used to work in that department working under the person who will be leaving the position. She thought I’d be a great candidate and referred me to the higher ups, so I’d feel weird cancelling an interview. But I also don’t want to waste their time if I wouldn’t take the job in the end.

            1. Undine*

              Part of going to an interview is determining if you really want that job. You don’t have to commit to the job beforehand.

        2. WellRed*

          But it’s not your dream job. It’s someone else’s that you cover temporarily. I don’t think it hurts to go on the interview to keep your options open. Also, 1.5 hours commute ach way?!!!

        3. Anonygone*

          There is no harm in taking the interview and seeing if it is worth it. If the interview goes well you might find that the drive would be worth it. Depending on your age and other obligations it could be a risk worth taking if it advances you in the career you want to be in.

  71. Another AP*

    I posted in the first May open thread about how to approach a conversation with my management about joining the Foreign Service and the background investigation.

    I met with them Tuesday about this and warned them to expect the call, and my management is on board. They’re excited for the opportunity, sad to see the possibility of me leaving happening, and said they’d be more than happy to help. Grandboss even said, “I see your time here as building bullet points on your resume for whatever next job you’re going to go kick ass at.”

    We talked for a little while about what the FS process is, and the extreme uncertainty especially in light of the State Department maintaining its hiring freeze at some level. There’s a lot up in the air over there and with my possibly joining, but fortunately I work for a very good company. If I do end up joining the Foreign Service, I’m sure I’ll be hard pressed to find as good a management team as I have where I am now.

    Thanks everyone who responded last month with your advice, it was very helpful!

  72. IsobelDeBrujah*

    My logical brain knows that annual company wide performance reviews are both annual and company wide as indicated by the name but the part of my brain that is plagued by memories from old, toxic jobs is in full on freak out “YOU”RE GONNA GET FIRED,” mode.

    I’m in zero danger of being fired. Everyone loves me. I do my job well. This knowledge is less helpful than one might think.

    2. Book Lover*

      Total sympathy. And no idea how to help. I haven’t found any useful approaches :(

    3. Not So NewReader*

      State an affirmation each time this happens.
      “I do my job well, I have nothing to fear.”
      “I am well liked here, people tell me if they need me to change what I am doing.”

      This is a crock pot solution, there are no microwave answers. This is part of why Alison says to get out of toxic jobs, they leave scars in our memories that are really hard to erase.

      Write out a couple affirmations, tape them to the bathroom mirror. Each time you see the affirmations make yourself read them out loud. Yes, it’s a PITA. But less of a PITA than the Negative Nancy living in your brain.

  73. Rebecca*

    I wish a nationwide edict would be put forth “NO 3 KNOCK RING TONES ALLOWED IN ANY OFFICE, AT ANY TIME, FOR ANY REASON!!” Honestly, I have to share an office with someone who texts with her kids all the time, and it’s “knock knock knock” over and over and over again. Gaa!

    Plus, thank goodness for air conditioning season. It makes it more difficult for the other one to clip her toenails at her desk, since she has to remove socks and shoes.

      1. Rebecca*

        Yep, that was a new one. Last week, I heard clip, clip, clip behind me, and thought really? I turned around, and she was leaning over clipping her toenails (she was wearing sandals). Sighs. Maybe I’d do that in the bathroom, if I had a toenail emergency, like I stubbed my toe and broke the end and a pointy piece was sticking out, but that type of grooming is best left at home, in my opinion.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      There needs to be a law that all phones go on vibrate or silent in an office.

      1. Emilia Bedelia*

        ESPECIALLY if you have a habit of leaving your phone on full volume, at your desk, when you’re at meetings.
        Not that I’m speaking from experience, or anything…

        1. tiny temping teapot*

          Here’s one for office culture – no one here would do that. Everyone’s phone is set to silent and I am just now realizing how much I appreciate it.

    3. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Honestly, this is the primary reason for my fitness tracker. I get my text messages and call alerts on it so I don’t have to actually look at my phone unless it is urgent and my phone can stay on silent.

  74. Alice*

    Venting!
    I have a colleague, in a different department, that I liaise with. She only answers direct questions. She never updates you when the situation changes. She doesn’t mention if the situation is going to change soon. She just answers the specific question that you asked, with information that is technically true but not actually helpful.
    “Have you made progress on the teacup tool that we ask about every time we talk?”
    “We are working on it.”
    “When do you think it might be ready?”
    “I couldn’t say.”
    Surprise, three days later, “Here’s the new teacup tool!” OK, great, it’s available for us now, but why was it top secret? We’re colleagues, not spies.

    Or, “How’s it going with that in-progress coffee report we talked about in November, February, and April?”
    “We did that last month.” OK, great, but were you ever going to tell us?

    I try to remember that some directive to be so secretive is probably coming from her boss, not from any innate dislike or reluctance to cooperate. But it’s so frustrating to be out of the loop all the time! I have to psych myself up for meetings where I will run into her. Has anyone else maintained a good relationship with a colleague in a similar situation.

    1. Rincat*

      Reminds me of Jane Fairfax in Emma. Have you tried talking to her about the best way to get updates on things? Like, “Hey I need updates on projects/reports/whatever. What is the best/easiest way I can get those from you?”

      1. Alice*

        Does that make me Emma? :) :)
        That’s a good idea. Maybe I should be more explicit. Until now I’ve been saying “my department values your department’s contribution and we want to make it easier and better for you to work with us — how can we help you?” Clearly that’s not direct enough!

    2. Mints*

      Huh, do you think it’s because their department has been burned by “You said three days and now it’s been four days” rage? Could you ask for unofficial guesses, or call on the phone?
      I’ve had coworkers be way more frank over chat or calls than what they put in email

      1. Alice*

        I bet that’s true — not from my department to them but maybe they’ve gotten some stick from others in the past. And from my department, frustration when that department’s rep cancels a scheduled meeting with one of my department’s clients because she’s sick or traveling (reasonable) and doesn’t tell us or the client (not reasonable). Definite frustration there.
        I’ve tried chats, in-person meetings, calls, emails. She’s very on message (“I can’t say when”) no matter the context. She’d be good in PR! I am counting my blessings that pretty much everyone else I deal with is responsive and forthcoming.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I had someone maintain a good relationship with me in spite of what my boss ordered me to do.
      We found areas of common interest to talk about. She like X, so did I. She was interested in taking up Y, well, me too. These were genuine shared interests. We’d both look at my boss’ orders and roll our eyes. What can you do? Not too much.

  75. kb*

    My boss has just left the company to pursue a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I’m so happy for her, but I’m a bit worried about her yet-to-be-named replacement. Former boss was extremely flexible about working with our personal schedules, but I don’t think she documented anything about about that. I am, by handbook standards, 5-10 minutes late to work every morning because I attend a group fitness class. My former boss enthusiastically approved. I love this class and really don’t want to have to stop going, but I don’t want my first impression to the new boss being “employee who thinks kickboxing is more important than work.” Any tips for phrasing this request in a way that doesn’t make me seem like my priorities are out of whack?

    1. Construction Safety*

      “Kick boxing class prevents me from Billy Jack kicking my boss. . . “

    2. Victoria, Please*

      “I have a long standing fitness class that makes me get in by 8:15 instead of 8. I always made up the time by (however you did). Mary was fine with it and I’d really appreciate being able to continue.”

      I know that I would be all Oh awesome, that’s great that you do that, just make sure if there’s a very important thing that we do need you in early for that you can do it.

  76. hbc*

    My colleague had two of his employees quit in the past two weeks, in a department of four. He was actually planning on firing them both within days.

    I can’t decide whether I’m jealous or horrified. I know an ideal situation is where everyone comes to the same conclusion that it’s not a good fit, but I think he might have put out the “I’m so done with you” vibes for months until they couldn’t take the environment any more.

      1. Sadsack*

        Yes, that sounds painful for everyone there. “Putting out a vibe” is a pretty crappy way to manage people.

  77. AndersonDarling*

    When a job ad asks for project management experience, do they mean full on project management?
    I’ve been looking at technical positions and some will ask for this, but when I think of project management, I think of writing charters, conducting roll outs, managing multiple teams of resources, weekly meetings to discuss process targets and ROI and working with $xx,xxx budgets independently.
    But they job could just need someone who can handle working on their own assignments and work well with other to get it done.
    Whenever I see project management experience listed, I always pass the job over. But then I wonder why would someone expect a mid level, non-management employee to be be a project manager? Opinions?

    1. Undine*

      I’m in software, and I think of something that falls between the two.

      For example, I know someone who does low-level project management for translations. She negotiates rates with translators (I think from a preset pool); coordinates between translators, programmers, and clients; and tracks project schedules and deliverables. But she’s a small cog, , it’s a fairly low-level job (not entry-level, but just one step up) and presumably all budget decisions go through her boss to be finalized.

      Or, frequently, a software company will have a single project manager who does not assign resources or budget, but holds weekly meetings to assess progress, keep track of the schedule, raise any issues with resources or roadblocks with the appropriate people at the next level.

      A third possibility would be someone who has been a project lead on a multi-person complex project, with multiple moving parts. So the day-to-day responsibility of keeping things on track, but with the ROI, budget, and personnel assignment handled by someone else. There it depends on the scope of the project and how much coordinating between different groups they had to do.

      I don’t think of a project manager as a management position.

    2. writelhd*

      Man, “project manager” is one of the vaguest terms ever, (kind of like “engineer” sometimes) because it’s used in a lot of industries. In general the ads are going to be looking for someone within the industry they’re in, not for example a construction project manager trying to get a project manager job at a software company…but sometimes it’s not even clear on the job posting what industry they’re in.

      Even in construction (where I work), someone with “project management” experience on residential projects does not often at all mean someone looking for a “project manager” on commercial projects is going to want to hire them.

  78. Anon16*

    Any advice for a boss who gives me his work to do? Is this normal, professional? This happens almost all the time and I get the sense that it’s because he’s 1) busy, and 2) doesn’t know enough about the industry to do it himself (he was hired to be the director of a niche field without any experience working in it, and hasn’t taken the time to learn much about it in the 8 or 9 months that he’s been a director).

    I’ll give some examples:

    1) I’m an entry-level project manager of a department that includes a couple of project managers and a director. There’s no sales/business development team in our organization. My manager is having us write RFP proposals without any training. He sent us a copy of the RFP and an outline and asked us to write it.
    2) He also asked our team to contact the administrative personnel of our clients to serve as references for the RFP proposal.
    3) We had an RFP proposal meeting. He had me call the organization to find out if it was canceled.
    4) I advised him to contact a major client of ours to potentially establish a contract with them and begin a contracted relationship. He asked me why I couldn’t do this myself.
    5) I had a question regarding a legal issue with our department. He asked me what I thought we should do. I have no legal experience or knowledge and am not in the place to give information about legal matters.

    These are just off the top of my head, but it’s things like this all the time. I feel like I’m doing part of his job without additional compensation or credit. In addition, it gives me less time to do my own job that I was hired to do. How do I push back on this? Is that at all possible? Sorry for the quick message, I’m trying to write this quickly.

    1. Anon16*

      I understand some of this is normal for a small organization but it’s frustrating to be asked to do this type of work without additional compensation, credit, or training. It’s also frustrating when it feels like he’s asking me to do it because he’s busy or can’t do it himself because he doesn’t know enough about the industry. This is also a small slice of everything he’s asked us to do.

      Am I being unfair?

    2. LQ*

      I guess this depends. To me a lot of these things seem like things they’d be done at your level. I’m not 100% sure what your job usually breaks down these tasks as but to me they all seem like project manager level tasks. RFP writing, contact admin to serve as references (ideally you’d already have those relationships), calling to find out if the meeting was cancelled. The only thing that isn’t is making a final decision on the legal issue, and that might be asking you what you think (my boss asks for my opinion on things all the time!) and then he might also go and get an actual legal opinion if that is what is needed, but getting your input totally seems reasonable.

      I wonder if there is other stuff, to me at least this seems normal project managery stuff?

      1. Anon16*

        Hmmm…it’s possible I’m biased because previous project managers under my previous director (who’s recently left), never did this type of work and were never asked. The director did it. He’s also not training us to do it, and this type of work wasn’t in the job description.

        Asking me to set up a contract with a major client, also, seems beyond my scope. Maybe I’m wrong, just trying to be more realistic.

    3. writelhd*

      Perhaps I don’t have a clear understand of what specifically is your job that’s different from those things (do you have your own projects to manage, and he’s asking you to do part of the management of his too?), but to me those look like pretty standard “project management” type tasks. Are you sure he’s not just giving you tasks to do so you’ll get experience doing them (and doing them in the specific way he/the company wants them to be done), rather than because he doesn’t know how to or doesn’t want do them? That’s a fairly common way to help entry level positions gain specific experience a boss might want them to have. Even if that’s not the reason, it is a boss’s prerogative to assign tasks throughout a department, so those examples don’t strike me as automatically weird for a department of project managers, though perhaps not a culture you’re into. It’s also relatively common in small or even mid-sized organizations to have people wear multiple hats and do business development type stuff (but not having a separate sales team is a little weird, depending on what it is you sell.) So for example learning how to do an RFP by following a sample outline and no other training, doesn’t strike me as strange or dysfunctional. It might not be the most effective way ever to learn how to do a super quality RFP and other places might have a different culture about how to impart new skills, but in my work I have definitely learned many a random business skill by being given a template and reading about it, so I would wager it’s not uncommon.

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      #2 and #3 are 100% definitely appropriate for you to do. It’s hard to say about the others without more context, but in general a boss assigning you “his” work is a normal thing. Managers delegate work; that’s inherently the job. Some of that work starts out as theirs, but it’s not inherently inappropriate for them to delegate it to others. Ultimately it’s up to him to figure out how to distribute all the work that comes his way.

      1. Anon16*

        I totally understand. I think my perspective is probably too influenced by my past managers who never asked project managers to do things beyond the scope of the job description (which was very basic tasks). All business-related tasks/business development tasks were handled solely by the director so this feels totally out of sync with my experience. I’m also not at all accustomed to a manager who’s typical response is “what do you think we should do?” My past manager made all decisions and asked for my opinion only when she didn’t have the knowledge/expertise to make a decision without…may be a symptom of little work experience.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          That is actually a great question for managers to ask! The idea is to coach you into developing your own instincts and problem solving skills, rather than creating a dynamic where the manager has to solve everything. It’s good for both of you.

          It sounds like you might be getting much better experience under this manager. All of this stuff is great for resume building too.

          1. Anon16*

            This is helpful! My first manager was much more hands on, so that’s all I’ve known. She would give me some context for new tasks, such as “I’m having you do X because of Y. I want you to do A, B, and C to achieve X. This will help you gain [skills].” My current manager is much more: “Here’s an RFP proposal. I’ve written an outline. Please submit your draft by [X] date.” Totally different from what I’m used to. Aligning my expectations helps. The organization still has major issues, but I’m happy to know this isn’t totally inconsistent with a standard working world.

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              Keep in mind, too, that it’s okay to say things like, “This is my first time doing this and I want to get it right. Can you give me a sense of how you’d approach this? Are there particular things I should keep in mind/watch out for?”

        2. writelhd*

          That could beg the question for you, is this a management style that you like? Because even if what you’re experiencing is likely pretty normal, cultures and management styles do vary and it can be useful information for yourself when thinking about future career path to have a sense of management styles you do or don’t enjoy working under. Not that you always have a lot of choice in the matter, but it can be good to think about.

          1. Anon16*

            I like something in between both these things. I like a manager who provides a little bit of structure and aligns my goals, but gives me the freedom to make my own decisions and asks input when necessary. I’ve had managers on two extremes. I think I do lean towards liking more guidance but I totally understand the drawbacks of that and therefore want to become more comfortable with someone who allows me more freedom. Hope that’s helpful!

  79. Bored and Confused*

    I have just gotten a part-time position at a retail store that I love and have worked for before. They are fine with me getting a second job as they only hire part time and are used to helping to schedule around things. Although they are willing to work my schedule around a bit, I’m a little at a loss as to what to put as my availability on job applications. I do not have set hours and since I am still fairly new I do not even have hours that I am most likely to work. About half the places I have applied to are also stores that only hire part-time and have a section on the application that lets you note if you have other commitments (I would assume this is because they expect most applicants to be students or working multiple jobs). I’m just wondering how I should handle the other half that don’t leave a space for notes.

    I have worked multiple jobs at once before but I had applied for those at around the same time and gotten the offers within two days of each other.

    Any suggestions?

    1. ms-dos efx*

      I think the best way to make something like that work is to decide that you will make one job your morning job, and the other one your afternoon job. Or one is your M/W/F job and the other is your Tu/Th job. You’d have to explain to your current employer that you got a second job so you won’t be able to work on certain days or a certain time of day anymore, and then kind of do that same thing for your new employer or on applications. Or when you are applying for second jobs, look for ones that have set days or hours rather than varying schedules. A lot of part time office jobs seem to be like that.

      It feels a little weird if you’re someone who is used to being flexible and accommodating of an employer’s needs, but for scheduling it’s the only way to really make it work that I know of.

    2. KR*

      What I did when I worked two jobs was have set days where I was available at each job. So for my office part time job I was available Monday through Wednesday all day and evening, Thursday just during the work day, and Friday mornings. That meant I was available Thursday evening, Friday afternoon and evening, and both weekend days for the retail job. The later part of the week and the weekend was the busiest part of the week for the retail gig (grocery store) and the office had evening work that I would occasionally need to respond to in case of technical issues – my boss took Thursdays when I was at my other job and I took Mondays. I would talk to your supervisor at your current job and say, since you’re trying to get a new job, you want to get a sense for what are the best times to be available for the business needs and what she needs you for. She might say she really wants you to be available Tuesdays for inventory, or if you can’t be here on the weekends it’s a problem because more senior employees have dibs on during the week. She will know best. Last thing – if you need a dedicated day off make sure you plan for it. My day off was always variable. It was usually Thursday but occasionally I wouldn’t get a day off with how my schedule worked out or it would end up being a random weekend day. It made it hard to make plans. If you don’t like that, pick a day and tell both jobs you can’t work that day at all.

    3. Beth Anne*

      I agree you need to make set days for each job. Otherwise you are going to drive your bosses or whoever makes the schedule at your jobs go crazy. I work at a restaurant and it makes it hard on my boss when she makes it and then has to move it around b/c of conflicts at other jobs.

  80. ms-dos efx*

    I had a beer with an acquaintance yesterday who works at a former employer I’d like to return to. She is in a totally different department than the one I used to work in, so I wanted to ask her a few questions about what it’s like, whether I should expect a pay cut if I go over there etc. I didn’t mention in advance that I was thinking of coming back, I guess because I didn’t want to make it seem like I only wanted to talk to her if she could help me? (I was genuinely interested in catching up with her too!)

    This morning she sent me a text saying it was nice to catch up with me but to please let her know in advance if I want to meet up with her for reasons that are not purely social because she was a little caught off guard.

    I’m very new to networking, so I wanted to get some outside perspectives on this. Did I make a faux pas by not explicitly telling her in advance that I had professional reasons for wanting to meet with her as well as personal ones? Or is this just a preference/quirk that she may have?

    I have another networking meeting coming up that I set up in a similar way so I want to make sure that if I am being rude, I can change the way I do things going forward.

    Thanks!

    1. writelhd*

      Oof. I think this is one of those ones where there’s no great rule because it depends on the person. There is probably a way to say “I genuinely want to catch up and also talk about this” ahead of time, and that is probably best, but there will always be the people who find that offputting or don’t believe the genuinely want to catch up part. So, I don’t know either, ,just sympathizing with the difficulty of how to attach situations like this.

      1. ms-dos efx*

        Thanks! It’s nice to know that there isn’t a hard and fast rule about it or anything.

    2. Sadsack*

      You refer to these get-togethers as networking meetings, byt it sounds like the person you met with thought you were getting together as friends. Either way, I don’t think it is wrong to ask questions about work since that seems to be how you know each other. It’s not like you pushed your resume in front of her or tried to sell her I Amway. I think her being put off is more about her being strange than about you being rude.

      1. ms-dos efx*

        Thanks for the perspective! :)

        Thankfully she really didn’t sound very bothered in her text to me. I just wouldn’t want to keep doing something rude, if I had been.

    3. TCO*

      I wouldn’t have reacted the way your acquaintance did–it was a little strange, given that it sounds like you spent most of your time genuinely socializing about non-work things. Whenever I meet up with someone I know through my profession, I assume that some “shop talk” might come up and that we might be talking about things like openings, salary, etc. even if we also want to talk about other things.

      1. ms-dos efx*

        That was my expectation as well. I’m very open and if I had been in her position I would have been surprised but not offended. Which, thankfully, is how she sounded in her text.

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Have you met up other times since you left that employer? Would you have asked to meet up with her if you weren’t considering returning?

      If not, I can see why she might feel a little misled about your intentions, even though you were happy to catch up with her as well.

      1. MS-DOS EFX*

        Thanks for responding! Those are good questions to help me kind of flip the script and see how the situation may have been unexpected for her.

        My husband, her husband, and I all used to work at this place before she worked there (tiny nonprofit life, amirite?). I left and she started in the meantime, but both husbands are still there. So we do see each other a few times a year and have hit it off, but never spent time one-on-one before. I think she’s fabulous and definitely would hang out with her regardless, but this particular time I did have specific information I wanted to learn from her. So when I imagine the experience from her side I can see how it would have been better to mention that I wanted to talk about work.

        I’m meeting with the executive director for coffee next week and went about arranging it in basically the same way. The ED and I also see each other several times a year at organization functions and have favorable opinions of each other, but we are too distant in age and status to ever really *hang out*. Because of that, I hope the implication is clear that I will want to discuss the possibility of coming back.

            1. ms-dos efx*

              I guess I thought it would since she’s a former boss of a boss and we’ve only really interacted in a professional context. Also we had messaged a little bit recently about my unhappiness/stress level at my current job. But I’m not very good at socializing so I realize now that my actions may not be reading the way I intend them.

              Should I message her again before we have coffee to let her know that that’s what I’d like to discuss? Or would that be weird?

              1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                Nah, I don’t think you need to. She probably assumes that it’s in some way career related — like that you might want to pick her brain about career path or so forth. I just wouldn’t go in assuming she’s realized you’re interested in coming back, specifically. Plan to have to say it explicitly!

                1. ms-dos efx*

                  Thank you so much for all the replies, Allison. Can’t imagine what your inbox must look like.

                  I definitely will!

        2. New Bee*

          Since you all have kind of hit it off, maybe she thought this was a direct overture to build a friendship (especially since your husband still works there so you already have an “insider”), which made it feel weird? I can think of folks I know who live in the “cool people” category in my head, but we haven’t been able to hang for various reasons. I could see myself feeling awkward if I cleared my calendar, got a sitter, etc., and then found out the person wanted an “in” at my job.

  81. LQ*

    I got a new…I don’t know! It’s definitely new work, though only part time (likely 20+ hours), so I’ll keep doing my regular work. I don’t know if this is a promotion or a raise or any of the details. But I do know that I’m going to be moving into working on a small team as a part of what I’m doing that’s going to be far more technical to a large extent. Well I’ll be the least techie person there, but still. So I’m really excited about that change in things I’m doing because I’ll be honest I’m bored out of my mind at some of the things I’m doing now. It wasn’t so bad but the last couple weeks have just felt so dull. (I think because I had a period of extreme “excitement” for the 6 months prior to this.) It felt like a lot of fighting the same battles and fixing the same issues. So I’m glad to pass that along to someone else and get to go fight new battles.

    I do want to know more about the actual details. (Like do I get a raise, do I get to move, do I get a new title, do I have new tasks, will it become full time new project after the other big thing I’m working on is done?) My director was really focused on the work part of it not the here’s the HR stuff part of it and this was as he was rushing out the door, literally, and he’s out of the office today.

  82. social anxiety at work*

    I’ve had issues with anxiety, particularity social anxiety, my entire life to some degree. Recently, as in the past few months, I’ve been going through a really bad patch with it (I think of it as a flare up). To the point where I’ve had some bad panic attacks, which hasn’t happened in close to a decade. I’m aware of the problem, and I’m taking steps to treat it. But that takes time.

    This hasn’t presented to much of an issue at work because the nature of my job doesn’t require interacting with many people in person. Recently my boss let me know that she was planning to assign me a project that is going to be a problem. It would require reaching out to a number of people, some that I don’t know at all, and sit down and interview them on a topic. Just thinking about this is making my heart race. Completing this project would be extremely distressing for me. And even if I do, the results aren’t going to be good. I have no background or training in interviewing people. I can ask a list of yes/no, close ended questions all day. For the purpose of this project we’ll want more conversational, story like details, not stiff facts and figures. How can I be expected to get people to engage like that in an interview when I’m concentrated on not passing out or letting my hands shake too much?

    Is ther a way to address this with my boss? I’m a very private person and do not discuss my personal life at work. While my boss is very friendly and open, discolsing my mental health issues would still be hard for me.

    1. Frozen Ginger*

      I don’t think you’d need to necessarily mention your anxiety.

      You could say something like: “Boss, I know you want me to work on Project, but I have some reservations. I don’t have much experience in interviewing, and thus I worry that my work on this project would come out sub-par. Perhaps there’s a way I could help Project in a different capacity, like X or Y?”

    2. AnonyMouse*

      I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I do like Frozen Ginger’s suggestion, but if that doesn’t work, here are some ideas for how to make the project more manageable, if you end up stuck with it.
      1. Can you interview over email instead? If your boss is open to it/doesn’t care how it’s done, you might be able to get all the information you need by sending a list of questions over email.
      2. If it HAS to be in person, prepare your questions beforehand, so you can just ask the next one on your list without having to think on the spot. I’d recommend having a notebook to take notes as a prop so you can keep your eyes on the page instead of having to make eye contact the whole time. At the same time, also consider recording the interview as backup so if you get super nervous and can’t take coherent notes, you have a recording that you can transcribe after the fact. (most people don’t mind if you just say, “Do you mind if I record this on my phone for future reference?”)
      3. Tips for the interviews (fwiw, I work full time as a reporter): Try to keep questions open ended: For story-like details, try “Can you walk me through the steps… ” “How did that feel?” “Why did you decide to do X?” Stories work best with beginnings, middles and ends, so you can ask things like “How did you start …?” “What was the most exciting/challenging thing you’ve experienced?” “What’s next for you?” Also if it helps, remember the whole point of an interview is for them to talk, not for you to talk, so you’re doing your job by not taking over the conversation. Silence is not a bad thing– people often give the best quotes when they have a little more time to think (sometimes I even pretend to be jotting notes so my interview subject has time to reflect more and, given silence, they almost always have something to add). I like to end with “Did I miss anything? Is there anything you’d like me to know that I didn’t ask about?”
      Good luck!

  83. paul*

    I loathe, loathe, loathe the reporting system for CPS in my state (yes this is work related, mandatory reporter here).

    It took me nearly an hour to file a report online yesterday, and there was never a field to just *describe wtf I saw that made me report!*

    I also still haven’t heard back despite giving them my personal cell, office number and the building admin’s number.

    Any day I have to file a CPS report is pretty much down the crapper to start with, for a variety of reasons. I think this my 3rd this year which is probably a record…and it’s only June.

    1. LizB*

      Ugh, so much sympathy. Mandated reporting is such a depressing responsibility as it is — I hate that it’s also a pain in the butt to actually make the stupid report on top of that.

      1. Not So Bad Candidate*

        In my state everyone is a mandated reporter. Luckily I’ve never had to report anything, though I would even if it wasn’t the law.

  84. Zen Cohen*

    I will be 38 weeks pregnant tomorrow. My maternity leave starts when I go into labor. I have a ton to do next week, but would it be horrible if I tried to take a mental health week for myself before the baby comes? It’s not something I’ve asked my boss for, and I’m a little nervous about ghosting.

    I am stressed to the max and have so little energy to do all the prep work that needs to be done before the baby gets here. All of my work will pretty much be wrapped up by the end of next week. I am just feeling so burnt out right now. And also, my office is incredibly hot and sitting at my desk makes my feet swell, so they look like bricks by the end of the day.

    1. Rainy, PI*

      I can’t help with the rest of it, but compression stockings! They are very popular with the pregnant ladies in my area.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      Congratulations! Almost there! We hit 34 weeks tomorrow, and the vague panic is starting to kick in.

      It’s not horrible, but how would you frame it? And would you be using accumulated PTO or go unpaid or something else? Could you get your OB to “recommend” it?

      1. Zen Cohen*

        Oh, my OB would totally recommend it. Every time I go in (once a week now!) she gives me the side-eye when I say I’m going to keep working until I deliver. The leave is unpaid after I use up my accrued PTO. Basically I would be missing out on one paid week of work, but I kinda feel like it’s worth it. And I would have one less week of FMLA but my return will be flexible and I won’t ramp back up to full time in the office for a while.

        1. VerySleepyPregnantLady*

          Then do it!

          Plus, if you’re at 38 weeks, you could go into labor tomorrow.

        2. Jessesgirl72*

          Then take it! The baby might decide to come early anyway. And she probably won’t let you go beyond a week late.

    3. Rincat*

      If you do a mental health week, they may have your leave start then. I think it’s fine to ask, just make sure you know what they’ll be doing with your PTO and leave.

      Also congrats! I remember 38 weeks…I wore sweatpants to work cuz that’s all that fit!

    4. TotesMaGoats*

      I took the week off before my due date and it was great. If you have the leave to spare then do it.

    5. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Do you get disability? Your doctor can pull you out of work now and you should qualify for disability so you can at least get some of your pay.

  85. ThrowAwayAgain*

    Sorry if this is long, I just don’t know how to handle this! Before 2017 at my small workplace (under 10 people) we all are salaried and got 2 weeks vacation. Sick time was just ‘don’t come in if you feel unwell’ so technically unlimited but never specifically announced like that. No official doctors appointment policies were ever in place either, it was just make sure you don’t have them (or too many) in our busy busy season (Jan – Apr), make up your work if needed, make sure other coworkers wouldn’t be out as well. Work through lunch if needed. You know, normal handle it like a responsible adult kind of thing.

    In December our boss announced (via email) that we would get 15 days of PTO to cover sick and vacation. We’re all okay with that, there is a person who seemed to abuse the unlimited sick leave so I can see why he would make a change. One person asks “What about doctor’s appointments?” And the boss says those now must be made up. We tried asking more questions to make sure we were abiding by his rules and he got frustrated and the conversation petered off. (This was over skype and email and he has since put the assistant in charge of marking off time out and time made up for appointments, something she isn’t happy about and has received NO guidance on.) We believe he may think we don’t like his policies, but his policies require some way of tracking things and he has left us completely unguided! It’s very frustrating. We don’t want him to ask the assistant later in the year about people’s PTO and she not have any records. So us admins have been emailing her when we are out, when we make it up. But the professionals don’t even know that the appointment rule has changed. We waited until busy season was over to ask more specific questions and he won’t answer them. He said he’d respond in a few weeks. So we are half way into a year and no one really knows how our PTO system works for appointments.

    It’s frustrating because before we handled it like adults, and since this is the off season appointments are easier to make and you aren’t missing work you can’t make up the next day. We also work unpaid overtime Jan – Apr because he thinks we are exempt just because the admins are salaried. But we aren’t exempt (a whole ‘nother issue!) He says those extra hours worked then won’t cover appts had later in the year. Now he wants to micromanage us and our time out for an appointment but he won’t tell us how to do it. Half of us aren’t aware of the policies so later in the year he could add up their hours out of the office and say ‘That was 1 whole PTO’ day. Meanwhile the assistant can’t verify other than the emails we send that we actually are making up our time. I could say I’m staying until 6 instead of 5 but there’s no one here to actually verify I’m physically here and/or working. The professionals don’t even know they are supposed to let the assistant know when they’re out, and they work slightly later schedules than us overall, think 9-6 instead of 8-5.

    I’m at the point of walking into my boss’ office and saying “This is ridiculous. We are all trying to comply with a PTO amount that we think is fair but an appointment policy that you won’t clarify for us and it’s JUNE!”

    1. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Do you agree with the policy? Is there a way you could talk to him in a way that is supporting his changes while asking for guidance? It seems like he felt attacked by negativity when he announced this and is now sticking his head in the sand.

      1. ThrowAwayAgain*

        You’re right I do think he felt attacked. But he likes to have every conversation over skype so I think he took our questions as attacking instead of as us asking for guidance.

        I am fine with the new PTO policy. I don’t love the “track every minute of time you are out of the office” because we are responsible adults not children, but I am happy to comply with it. He is the boss and signs my paycheck.

  86. Lady Jay*

    Today I need to vent a bit.

    I’m mostly frustrated with my manager (I’m a teacher, he’s my principal.) He says he’s really pleased with my work but never seems willing to listen to my ideas or consider alternatives to the very narrow institutional vision we follow. My school is increasingly standardizing everything, to an apparently greater extent than similar institutions, and ideas that run contrary to standard operating procedures are not worth considering. This makes me feel like a cog in the machine, and it’s difficult to accomplish my goals as an educator because they don’t “fit” with the institutional vision. It’s also difficult to feel that my ideas are even being considered.

    But to make matters worse, I sent an essay I was proud of to an academic blog & got it rejected for not having “depth” enough, whatever that means.

    I’ve felt for several years now that I’m having trouble getting traction in my career, and today is just kind of adding to that feeling.

    Thanks for listening, all. I’m back to work now.

    2. Miss Anne Thrope*

      What kind of academic blog was it? Rejection is hard, but as you know, academia is all about rejection. I’ve started to do public writings and even those can get rejected depending on fit

  87. First Time Hiring Manager*

    I’m very new to the HR recruiting world. I’m currently in a hiring manager position to fill a subordinate role under me.
    I did some research to see a potential candidate’s background. What would you do if you found out someone owed a ton of personal income tax (they were listed in a newspaper article on a list of people who owed an exorbitant amount of income tax ).
    The position this person would fill would have access to a company credit card for purchasing travel and other company related items, and also to some petty cash.
    I like the candidate and the individual is qualified for the position, but I’m a bit torn about what I’ve discovered. I don’t want to be paranoid, thinking that this individual would be dishonest because I don’t know all the facts. I’m also concerned about any legal guidelines I should be following (like I said, I’m new, so I don’t know everything!).
    What would you do?

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      Normally, what I see here is people saying that someone’s credit history, etc isn’t relevant unless they are going to have access to company credit/cash/resources.

      At minimum, I’d ask the candidate about it, and I’d make sure it’s really the candidate, and not someone with the same name.

    2. De Minimis*

      I wouldn’t care. Controls should be adequate to prevent theft unless there’s collusion of multiple parties. They may be on a payment plan, or they may be working out some other arrangement. And people can get into tax problems for all sorts of reasons.

      Owing money doesn’t mean someone is dishonest. I’d feel differently if you’d found out they had a criminal record for theft or something like that. How is someone supposed to pay their debt if they’re blacklisted from employment? I actually wouldn’t even care if someone had a bankruptcy on their record, much less tax debt.

      1. First Time Hiring Manager*

        Thank you for your input! It’s true, people get into money problems, and it shouldn’t be used against them. Really the position doesn’t have major authority with handling money, so yes, controls will be in place.

    3. Jen*

      There’s a reason you can’t get a security clearance if you owe a lot of money like that. I would definitely take this into account. Paying income tax is required by law. This either shows carelessness with financial requirements or some kind of attempt at avoidance. I would not draw a firm line here between personal and professional or just assume it applies to professional. I think you would not be doing due diligence if you ignore this. Not saying this is a deal breaker but you should have serious conversations with others in your org and with the applicant about how it happened before you go further. Applicant’s explanation may satisfy you but I think you would be wrong not to follow up on this. It is public information so you are not prying.

      1. Jen*

        Sorry I should say could show carelessness or avoidance. It could be innocent like a strange windfall yhat was mishandled (like how people who win gambling prizes sometimes mess up their taxes). But I do think investigation is merited.

        1. First Time Hiring Manager*

          I agree. We have pre-employment background checks, so a credit history and discussions within the org and with the candidate are necessary.

        2. De Minimis*

          There could be a massive change in circumstances from one tax year to the next. I could see how something like a job loss could create a big tax liability. Divorce also often can create tax issues, and one of the big ones is small business failure.

          You could possibly get a lower level security clearance [like public trust] with a tax liability depending on the reason, unless you were trying to get a job with the IRS itself [they have a zero tolerance policy about tax liability, with all their employees at all levels, both permanent and temporary.]

          1. First Time Hiring Manager*

            Thank you for the info. There are so many possible reasons. We are definitely no the IRS, lol…

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Check to see if there is any criteria for hiring people who have access to the company credit card and petty cash. Does your company do internal audits? Are there outside auditors or anyone who might be very picky? This includes some insurance companies. Will the employee be bonded? Is she bondable?

      Not the same as your story but just a caution: A friend of mine was hired at New Place, which is a well-known retailer nationwide. She gave notice at Old Place. New Place never mentioned doing a credit check. They ended up telling her they could not hire her because of her bankruptcy.She ended up with no job.

      If you did not know this person owed a large amount of back taxes, you might say that and be excused once. But you know. So for your own protection and your own understanding ask your boss/ other knowledgeable person if hiring this person is okay with SOPs.’

  88. Jen*

    I have a question about exit interviews and am posting for a friend. He is about to give notice in at his job. He is specifically leaving his job because of a toxic manager they promoted about 18 months ago. This guy is awful and my friend will be probably the fifth person to flee the company because of him. One person went so far as to tell this guy “no one likes you” when they quit. However friend is taking a job in a related company and while boss will have no power over him (actually kind of the opposite, sort of), he will have to work with him in the future. Boss is the son of a VP and is unlikely to be fired, despite his toxicity. So, in his exit interview friend is not sure how honest to be. What do you guys think?

    1. Frozen Ginger*

      I feel like there’s a way to balance your friend’s honesty with professionalism. He should talk honestly, but calmly and seriously and not bluntly.

      Not “Waqueen is toxic and terrible and that’s why I’m leaving.”
      But ” To be honest, I’m leaving in-large-part because of Waqueen. He has done things like X and Y that just made staying under his management unsustainable. I want to wish your company the best, but I hope you understand if I’m reluctant to work with him when I am at New Company.”

    2. JulieBulie*

      At my exit interview ten years ago, I was very emphatic that I was leaving the company in order to move ahead in my career, and that this place where I’d been the last five years was wonderful and it was good experience.

      I added, “HOWEVER, I recommend that the company should encourage Oldboss to seek anger management counseling.”

      Turned out I wasn’t the first person to tell them that. I was, however, the last. After some investigation, they demoted him and promoted one of his direct reports, so that Oldboss ended up reporting to a former underling.

      I realize it is different when he’s the son of a VP… but if your friend is the sixth to leave because of him, that might matter to the company. On the other hand, we read all the time on AAM about sucky bosses that do not get dealt with.

      Your friend needs to decide how he feels about taking a risk that this could worsen their relationship – keeping in mind that the relationship will already be changing since he will have a new boss. Honestly, I would go for it because I’m usually willing to take a chance on things getting better, but maybe I’m nuts.

      1. Jen*

        There is an additional issue that the boss is pushing this cya-and-nothing-else attitude, which is going to be very bad for the company long term. My friend actually consulted with me on some of it quietly because some of what boss was doing might have been illegal (if their teapot goes wrong, people could die) and he wanted me to check the regs.

    3. Clever Name*

      Your friend is not obligated to give an exit interview. I left my last company because of my awful boss. I left the exit interview form blank. If they insist on scheduling one in person, it’s perfectly acceptable to give bond answers. Often, being really honest in exit interviews can only hurt you, and often nothing changes at the company you’re leaving.

  89. LyrasOxford*

    I know it’s easier to find a job while employed, but how much of a difference does it make? I’m in a job that’s caused me so much stress that I have developed (diagnosed) anxiety, mild depression and a chronic physical disorder. It’s not as bad as some situations on the blog (not screaming red-flag run away now), but it’s been a poor fit since I joined in 2013, my manager is mediocre at best, and 3.5 years of very long hours in a very competitive atmosphere have worn me down. I’ve asked about moving within the firm, that’s not possible.

    I’m in a pretty niche field, so it takes a while for openings to come up, and my work hours are so long that it’s adding further stress (and the accompanying health effects) to be job hunting after a 12-hr work day. My husband makes enough to cover both of our expenses, so I think I can afford to quit, but I don’t want to hurt my chances of getting a next job, particularly in a small field.

    (If it makes a difference, I’m 27, this is my first job out of school. So I’d only have one full-time position on my CV — which is at one of the top ranked organizations in the field, but I’m not sure how much that helps– along with a bunch of internships.)

    Basically, I don’t know how to weigh sticking things out to improve my prospects as a job candidate, versus my general physical and mental health. Help?

    1. Jen*

      I am so sorry.

      I do think given what you said about jobs not coming up often, I would stay in your job, because you could end up with a big gap. UNLESS, however your job is stressing you out so much you will not be able to job search effectively or it will truly be bad for your health to stay. I would also would really sit down with your spouse and crunch numbers first, spouse is on your team 100% first and you can create a cushion in case something happens with his job. I would also consider if there is anything related or out of your field you could do short term in order to keep working but get put of your environment without the resume bit and to lessen the financial impact.

      1. LyrasOxford*

        Thank you for the advice. We are lucky that we’ve built a cushion already, and my spouse is 100% supportive. But I am scared of shooting myself in the foot and making it impossible to get back into the field. It hadn’t thought about doing something out of the field for a bit…that’s an interesting idea. Thank you.

    2. Chaordic One*

      I’ve seen and given this advice before. Start a discrete job search right away AND give yourself a deadline. Depending on the situation, give yourself a deadline of either three or six months to find a new job. If you haven’t found a job by your deadline date, then turn in your resignation. If you haven’t found something before your deadline, you can devote more time and energy into finding a new job and you’ll probably be in a better frame of mind when you’re away from your poor-fit old job.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      If your health is at stake, then you have to move out. If your field is small, then chances are pretty good the interviewer already knows why you left and it will not be that big a deal.

      1. LyrasOxford*

        Thanks Chaordic One and Not So New Reader… Last December, I had given myself a deadline of this May, and clearly that has come and gone. I guess I should try again and stick to it.
        If you see this, a follow up question — if I did leave, should I be honest with colleagues as to why I left (to say generally it’s for health reasons, without more details?) They’re going to be shocked that I’m leaving and be even more aghast if it’s not to another position in the field. I would prefer to be honest, but also wonder if there could be undesirable consequences… e.g. a concern later if I’m applying back into the field, if people think I have health issues?

        1. Chaordic One*

          As whether or not to be honest, it really depends on the employer and the business culture. In some situations, if the employer seems open to constructive criticism, it certainly would be appropriate to tell them the things that made you unhappy about the job. But from what you’ve described, that doesn’t sound like your employer which seems to have some cultural issues. In your situation I would probably just say thank them for the opportunity and tell them that you enjoyed the positive aspects of the job (whatever those were). If you feel pressed to say more, then mention that while you liked the job, it wasn’t a good fit for you, and let it go at that.

  90. C Average*

    I have a super awkward new colleague whose actual name is Jane! I find myself mentally narrating my interactions with her into AAM letters.

    (She’s a flavor of awkward that’s been ably and thoroughly analyzed by Alison and the AAM commentariat, so I know how to deal with her and I don’t have any actual questions about her. I just think it’s funny that she’s named Jane.)

    1. Elizabeth West*

      I look forward to Jane stories now, if you’re able to tell any. Of course since her actual name is Jane, you might have to change it to Bathsheba or something. :)

        1. Sylvia*

          Haha. I’m fine when advice blogs use my real-life name as a stand-in for someone’s real name, but then you get into the comments where people say “Jane” or “Sylvia” is a jerk!

  91. KarenT*

    My office is undergoing a huge renovation. We are closing for 4 months for the heavy construction period (work from home, not laid off) but will otherwise be in the office for the bulk of the reno. We had a company wide meeting to discuss plans this morning, and the questions people were asking were hilarious. We expected questions on timelines, plans to mitigate noise and dust, safety, etc., but everyone was focusing on the most random things. “Where will I put my coat?” was literally asked three times. And while walking out of the meeting, the woman behind me said to me, “We really didn’t get a clear answer on the coat thing.” It was a pretty entertaining morning.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      LOL That is hilarious!

      I’d be asking about dust mitigation and how bad it is for computers, not about my coat! (and that coat will be covered in dust, so maybe her answer should be her car? LOL)

      1. KarenT*

        And it would be totally logical for people to be worried about dust on coats, but they were specifically asking about where coats go after the reno! (The building is being divided in half during the reno, and will be completely sealed off and hvac will actually be separated so there shouldn’t be any dust. And the heavy construction happens while we’re at home). They kept asking if there were going to be dedicated coat rooms, or if we should keep our coats at our desks, or what the deal would be. And once it was brought up, pretty much all follow up questions were regarding coats.

      1. Rainy, PI*

        I really want to know where the coats are going to go.

        We had a reno last year and, I mean, you say “we’re doing a major reno on the whole front of the office” and everyone goes “welp, dust and noise!”–like, I assume that’s been thought of and I’m prepared for the inconvenience, BUT WHAT ABOUT MY COAT. In my office it was the beverage station. WHERE WILL I GET MY NEVER ENDING SUPPLY OF TEA, said half the office, who drinks office tea like tea is a limited resource and the tea mines are closing next week.

        1. Beancounter Eric*

          Tea is VERY important. Vital, in fact.

          Without it, I get nothing done. And coffee is not a substitute.

          Time for another cup. Cheers!!

          “If you are cold, tea will warm you;
          if you are too heated, it will cool you;
          If you are depressed, it will cheer you;
          If you are excited, it will calm you.”
          ― William Ewart Gladstone

          1. JaneB*

            In our case it’s the stationary cupboard. But where will we get our sticky notes? How will weekend pen emergencies be solved??

    4. Clever Name*

      That’s so funny. We are moving to a new building, and our hr person asked people about preferences and that they’d try to accommodate but couldn’t make guarantees etc. I requested to share an office with non-smokers only. The most common request? To have a window that opens because their dog sometimes smells (we’re dog friendly). The hrmanagerseemed annoyedat that one.

  92. Lobster Mobster*

    My department is going crazy: our departmental manager is leaving, the Chair is being replaced (I work at a university) by a new Chair who is going to be gone all summer, and suddenly all of my colleagues are dropping like flies. I honestly think that by June it is only going to be me, my colleague that I adore, and another colleague that I loathe.

    To make things worse (or better? I’m not sure!) I just found out that another colleague is leaving in July – I kind of want to apply for her job, but my colleague that I loathe has been here longer and for some reason (completely unknown to me) the higher-ups adore her, and she will probably get the job if she applies. I really love my own job, too, so I’d only be applying to make more money. I’m not sure whether I could stand going up for an interview and losing out to her. She’s inept at her own job (I wipe up so many of her mistakes, one to the tune of several thousand dollars!!!, but for some reason she always skates through it unscathed) but we’re really big on tenure here, and the new Chair adores her, so maybe I’ll just wait it out and stay where I am.

    Ugh.

  93. Andrea Gilbert*

    Anyone know any reputable recruiters for EDI positions? Or work at home EDI positions? I have a friend with this background who lives in a small city without EDI jobs (his was eliminated due to health care market contraction).

    1. Not So Bad Candidate*

      He might have better luck looking into a recruiter in his specific industry. Like insurance/retail/healthcare, etc. I work in EDI but I don’t know of any specific recruiters and really I wish I did because I’ve been contacted by recruiters before who clearly don’t understand EDI at all and the positions were not appropriate for my skill level.

  94. Amber Rose*

    Oh, and I deserve a light smattering of applause I think. Some coworkers were telling me about the time one of them asked how to measure 11 inches, and the other offered to whip it out and he’d just have to remove an inch.

    And I didn’t blush.

    Not that I’m sheltered or easily shocked. But I pink pretty readily. So it’s nice when I don’t, because I usually get teased about it forever.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      I’d have answered with the joke about why girls score lower on math tests.

      (“because they are always told >< is 12 inches)

      Congrats on the not blushing! I turn red when I'm hot/cold/excited/embarrassed/no reason at all.

  95. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

    I’ve been back at work for 3 weeks after being out for 3 weeks post-tonsillectomy. I can now confirm that my dream is to win the lottery so I can stay home and read books all day instead of sitting in a building under construction (the JACKHAMMERS!!!!!!!!) while a bunch of loud and obnoxious high schoolers take over all 4 classrooms surrounding my office.

    Also, summer hours mean I have to wake up at about 5:30am and I am a night owl so it’s really, really hard. My poor kid should be sleeping in on his summer vacation and instead is also waking up an hour earlier, plus we are having a major heat wave. It’s just exhausting and I need a vacation.

    Vent over.

    I have two new Faculty though! A new Chair who seems to be pretty great, though she wants to make all sorts of changes and when I flat out tell her no, we don’t have the money, she acts surprised. She’s also chafed by the restrictions Facilities puts on our campus and keeps trying to find ways around the rules, but she’ll settle in soon enough.

  96. Recent 2017 College Grad*

    I’ve been reading the website for about a year and the community has always been super helpful but I am mostly a lurker. As a recent May 2017 graduate, I feel like I’ve heard that it is super helpful to get a mentor when entering the workforce or just in general. How do you find a mentor though and how do you cultivate that relationship? I’d love to hear tips/stories from other people.

    1. Simone R*

      My first job post-college was in an academic lab, so the mentoring structure was a little more formalized, but by the time I left, I had multiple people I could go to for advice, so hopefully this will help! First, don’t expect this to happen quickly-it works better if you slowly build up relationships with a bunch of people, then it’s easier to go to them for advice. In that vein, make sure you’re doing the best work possible. When people see that you’re doing your work well, and you’re on friendly terms with them, it’s easier to stop by after 8-12 months and say that you’d like advice on X and ask them for help.

  97. NylaW*

    Is LinkedIn premium worth it if you’re actively job searching? Would it be worth it for a month or two? I already used the free month of premium so I’d definitely have to pay.

    1. KiteFlier*

      As a recruiter, I really don’t think so. Being a “featured applicant” means nothing to me.

  98. Grayson*

    I currently work as a civilian contractor for a government agency. (So not a government contractor.) I have started to do research on a potential career field (monitoring & evaluation, and security sector reform). Monday I have an information interview with someone in the field, and I have a list of questions to ask from AAM’s previous thread.

    My problem is that while I hold a degree in the field, I don’t have any practical work experience. My second problem is that at 30, I can’t afford to take unpaid internships that seem to be the only way to deal with this situation of “need experience to get job”. (I’ve got three cats, bills, and I like the independence a paycheck brings.) Are there any AAM commenters that have leads in the DC/MD/VA area that might be a good place to look? Chances are I’ll be transitioned off my current contract due to our prime wanting to take more share of the work. (I love the company I work for, and I’d like to stay with them, but if that doesn’t happen.)

  99. Natalie*

    So, my boss ended up taking another position, and since the company will be closing by the end of the year he obviously won’t be replaced. So… I’ll be the acting CFO for 5 months, assuming we can come to terms on salary & a staying bonus. Eep.

    1. fposte*

      You’re a natural, Natalie. And it’ll be nice to have a bigger cushion for your own transition.

  100. Crylo Ren*

    I was told by a recruiter for a company I’m interviewing with that the entire company (~500 employees) goes on vacation for the first week of July and the last 2 weeks of December. Has anyone else here worked at a company that did something similar? I’m in the US and this is a privately held company that has little if anything to do with the government.

    I will for sure dig into this if/when I get called back for another interview, but my gut reaction has been split three ways:

    – “wow, that’s awesome!”
    -“wow, that kind of sucks if it means the entire company is scrambling in the weeks prior to those mandated vacations”
    -“does that mean there are no vacations/holidays offered at other times of the year if you’re guaranteed (mandated) 3 full weeks?”

    1. Michelle*

      My husband works for a major carpet manufacturing company and they used to do the same exact thing. Plus, they were allowed to draw unemployment during those weeks and it was considered due to “lack of work”. People from the unemployment office would come to the site and sign everyone up. They also used to get a percentage of their pay during the first week of July and in December because of some kind bonus system the company had.

      In recent years, many of the senior employees (20+ years) have retired and the newer employees complained about not having paid vacation. Although they got the time off and could draw employment, they were upset about not getting as big a bonus as the more senior employees. Finally, the company took away the 3 weeks of guaranteed vacation, unemployment and bonuses and went to paid vacation instead. Now, depending on your seniority/number of years with the company, you get X amount of paid vacation. The senior employees preferred the old system because they actually received more money that way.

    2. Echo*

      Not sure about July, but I had a roommate who worked for a consulting firm that was closed Dec 25-Jan 1 every year. He loved it! My sense is whether this is awesome or sucks really depends on the sort of work you do. He did onsite consulting engagements, so the firm wouldn’t schedule him to go out to a client during or immediately after that time period (meaning he also didn’t have to spend the break doing prep work). And yes, he did have a normal PTO plan outside of that week, but it’s probably worth asking about.

    3. floating*

      The company I work for does this for the last two weeks of December. Our competitors do it as well, so I assume it’s standard in our section of the industry. I started in January so I don’t know how crazy it gets, but it’s definitely a perk I’m looking forward to (spend my slow days fantasizing on airbnb). In terms of vacation, we get one day for every month we work, and standard holidays (MLK, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, etc) are paid as well.

    4. Undine*

      We have a week-long shut down over Christmas. For us, work is planned around that and the workflow is low enough at those times that the shutdown doesn’t cause a crunch beforehand. (There may be some positions where that is not true.) I think there may be some essential personnel who still have to work.

      The idea is that the workload is so low and the vacation rate so high during that time, that it is cheaper to shut down and not pay the cost of keeping the facility open.

      We do get additional vacation and holidays.

      But ask!

    5. Jessesgirl72*

      Yep. It’s really, really common in the auto industry and other manufacturing (my dad worked for a tire company, for instance)

      They used to pay you during changeover/shutdown, and then sometimes they made you be laid off. The most common tactic now seems to be force you to use vacation, and if you don’t, you’re “laid off” and can file for unemployment- getting in the “waiting weeks” for which you don’t get paid.

      When I worked for a subsidiary of GM (and when my dad worked for a different subsidiary, and for the tire company) we did get other paid holidays, but not additional vacation. And sick days were unpaid.

      It can be part awesome and part suck.

      1. Crylo Ren*

        This company does have a major manufacturing element. Good to know that this is standard!

        1. Jessesgirl72*

          July is when (US, but also ones who just build stuff here, like Toyota) car manufacturers change over for the new model year- so they completely shut down production while the few skilled trades people needed retool all the equipment and do routine maintenance. Be glad it’s not 2 weeks in July, as it can be. So it trickles down that everyone who touches it shuts down too every year.

    6. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Our company is closed for the week between Christmas and New Year’s, and with observed days, it sometimes works out to be nearly two weeks. That’s pretty normal in a lot of companies I’ve seen, either ones I’ve worked for or our clients. I still get 10 days of vacation to use when I want (15 days after my 1-year mark). In my last company, it did mean a lot of scrambling, but in my current company, it seems to mean a lot of winding down and not taking on anything new. My last company hid the closure from our clients, my current company is very up front about it.

      The July thing? I think that’s super cool. Especially this year, since a lot of offices are closing on July 3rd as well as July 4th. Shutting everything down makes a lot of sense to me.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        I have heard of factories which close for specific periods (a fortnight in summer, Christmas).

    7. NoMoreFirstTimeCommenter*

      In Finland we have 4-5 weeks of vacation per year and it’s not uncommon for companies to say that they must be or are strongly recommended to be in July. We jokingly say that the whole country is closed in July. Everybody just disappears to their summer cottages and all offices are empty. Well, in reality there are of course plenty of jobs where this isn’t an option and people have to take their vacations at different times, and new people are also hired as substitutes in the summer. And in any case we have to take most of the vacation during the official vacation season which is May to September (this is the law). Outside this time there is little paid vacation time available but of course reasonable employers will give you unpaid days off if there is a need for that. So for us Finns it’s pretty normal that the yearly vacation is at a certain time. We just plan accordingly. And June is the only reliably warm month here anyway :)

    8. Clever Name*

      That’s awesome. My husband’s company shuts down for 2 weeks around Christmas, and I’m so jealous. I finally have enough vacation I can take the “do nothing” week between Christmas and New Years off, but I’d love to have it automatically.

  101. Victoria, Please*

    We have gone to our summer 4/10 schedule, which I loathe because it is exhausting and it reduces productivity by quite a lot more than 20%. This first week of it, we had a four-day, all-day event that is excellent but also exhausting. I am completely out of it today, our first Friday off, and all I want to do is lie around on the sofa watching mindless tv. I might be able to pull a few weeds or visit a thrift store, but doing something useful or interacting nicely with my husband (who also works in my org), is pretty much off the table.

    I hate the 4/10.

    1. Sadsack*

      I think I would hate that, too. I usually am full steam ahead in the morning and start slowing down mid-afternoon, unless something important comes up. I don’t think I could pull off ten hour day, even if it is to get off an extra day entirely.

    2. Persephone Mulberry*

      Our CEO has talked about putting us on 4/10 but even if I could (can’t because of my kid’s daycare schedule), I don’t think I would. I barely survive 8 hour days.

    3. Your Weird Uncle*

      Yeah, I was at a job that did the 4/10 and I hated it, as well. I have been offered the ‘opportunity’ to work 4/10 in other jobs and have turned it down, my first experience was so bad. I feel your pain!

    4. mamabear*

      I’ve never understood why the 4/10 is supposed to be a perk. My days are full enough as it is and I run out of brainpower at some point.

      1. Abby Nonymous*

        I work 4-10’s, and it is really nice to have three days off. Less wear and tear/fuel costs for a vehicle if you have one. I’ve historically worked night shift and 4-10’s were a lifesaver…BUT now I’m on day shift and 10 hours is a really really long time!! I think I’d probably much rather work 5 8’s on day shift.

  102. em em*

    I’ve come to the decision that I need to move on from my current position… but I’m feeling conflicted and guilty about the possibility of leaving. I’m in the nonprofit sector, and my boss throws a lot of projects, programs and responsibilities at me, but I get virtually no organizational support for them. I have a lot of institutional knowledge, my boss doesn’t have the capacity or expertise to take a lot of my tasks, and there isn’t really anyone within the organization that would be a good fit to take over. And this means that a lot of the external people I deal with (from our other nonprofit partners, members of the community, consultants/vendors, etc) are going to face a big interruption in the services & coordination I am responsible for providing.

    I know that this situation isn’t unusual in the nonprofit sector – any advice or insights on how to get over my guilt and ease my eventual transition?

    2. she was a fast machine*

      I don’t have any advice, but I do have empathy. I was in the same(maybe even worse) situation with my last job, and I put off leaving for so long it became harmful to my health to stay, and by that point, being nearly suicidal trumped my lingering guilt at leaving.

      What Allison always says though is true; they will survive without you. If you fell off the earth tomorrow, they would find a way to survive. You could do what I did, which did help me some, both in a cathartic sense and a guilt-easing way, was write something down that just kind of goes over what you do in an average day/week/month, some of your little hints you know, your basic job duties, some institutional knowledge and people-insight, and leave all that for whoever takes over after you. I heard from my replacement at Toxic Job that having that document was a godsend because it had some tips for dealing with our horrible boss.

      1. em em*

        I appreciate it- I think that’s a good first step to be working on, as I’m not sure how long my job search is going to take. I also have some mental health issues that I had under control until things at work started changing, and as I look back over the past six months, I can see how low I’ve sunken down…

    3. tiny temping teapot*

      When it comes to institutional knowledge, it sounds like now is great time to start recording that, putting together manuals. If something happened and you were out for a month recovering, you’d want to have this information recorded anyway, right? Taking steps like that is just good planning – organizations shouldn’t be reliant on one person that way.

    4. Observer*

      Document as much as you can, in as organized a fashion as you can. And give them as much notice as you can so that can plan to get an outside person in.

  103. TotesMaGoats*

    A yay Friday update for my work bff from OldJob. She found an opening where I’d worked with the hiring manager. I sent him a quick message. Couple days later she had a phone interview. This past Wednesday was he in person. This coming week is in person with hiring manager. Looks like she’s finally finding a good place to land. I’m so happy for her.

  104. AS*

    What would you say if someone asked you to refer them for a position after an informational interview, and you wouldn’t actually recommend them? I’ve seen a lot of questions here about people who were blatantly rude or tried to falsify information, but what if someone just isn’t the most professional, or just isn’t the best fit fit for the role? I’m lucky this hasn’t happened to me so far, but I’ve spoken with a number of prospective candidates (I work for a large company and we’re always hiring) and as that number grows it’s always a possibility. What should I do if it ever comes up?

    (Repeating this comment from a related post several days ago because it’s probably better for the open thread.)

    1. fposte*

      “I’m not in a position to do that.” If you’re feeling generous, you could say “However, from what I know of hiring here you’d need to strengthen your communication skills” or “It’s generally not a good idea to try to turn an informational interview into a foot in the door.”

      1. AS*

        Thank you! Oh, just to clarify, I may be using “informational interview” a little broadly here. Everyone who’s asked me for a referral was very clear from the start that they wanted to talk because they were thinking about applying.

        1. fposte*

          I probably just plagiarized it from you without realizing. It was good enough for Helen Keller.

  105. KatieMarie*

    Does anyone know if a 21-year-old child that is not a student and does not live with the parent who is the employee can be added onto that employee’s health insurance? I know that students that are living with the employee can be on the health insurance until age 26. But what about this kid?

    1. AnonMarketer*

      I’m 23, live with my fiance, and am on my parents’ insurance. I don’t think it has anything to do with whether or not the child lives with their parents.

      1. Echo*

        Agreed – I am 26, living independently and full-time employed with my own employer health plan, but before my birthday my parents kept me on their plan as well (the way the plan levels were structured this didn’t cost them extra).

    2. Xanthippe Lannister Voorhees*

      I believe they can be, I was on my parents’ insurance until 26 despite not being a student or living with them that whole time. They even kept me on for a time while I had my own insurance.

      I will caveat that my information is not up-to-date.

    3. Michelle*

      Agree with AnonMarketer- as long as they are your child (biological, adoptive), 26 or younger and are not covered by another insurance program, they can be on your insurance whether they live with you or not. That’s the way the HR person on my husband’s employer explained it to us.

      1. KR*

        Hell I’m married and have my parents insurance. 23, married. Husband has Tricare and it’s mandatory (for active duty Marines at least) that wives be covered under Tricare. My dad doesn’t get charged extra to put me on his medical and dental plan either so I have double insurance. I think as long as you’re under 26 you can be on your parents plan.

    4. aaanon*

      I would say yes. My fiance lives with me part of the year and lives at school during the school year and he is still on his mother’s insurance at 23.

    5. Spills*

      Up to date information: I just turned 26 and got dropped from my parents insurance (sad!), but until recently was on both theirs and my own, living several states away from them.

    6. Not So Bad Candidate*

      Yes, they can. If the employee is active (retiree plans can exclude adult children). The child can even be married and/or have insurance available through their own employer. The child does not have to live with the employee, just has to be under 26. In some states (FL) the child can stay on the parents plan until the end of the year in which they turn 26, though in most states it’s as soon as they turn 26 they can be cut off.

  106. AnonMarketer*

    Has anyone had a good experience with recruiting agencies for either contract or full time work? I’m in the marketing field, and have experience with digital marketing as well as design and web development. I have a wide variety of skills within the industry, but only about 2 years of experience.

    Long story short, I need to get out of the toxic workplace I’m in as soon as possible. I’ve been casually job searching for the last six months but positions in my area are VERY hard to come by. I’ve heard mixed reviews on recruiting agencies, but they seem to always have a ton of positions available. Has anyone had a good experience with these agencies, or have any advice for reaching out to recruiters? I would be reaching out to recruiters in larger cities for strictly remote positions.

  107. Xanthippe Lannister Voorhees*

    My job hunt continues (year and a half now!) continues fruitlessly. My question today, though, is about addresses. At the end of the month I am leaving my apartment and will be technically homeless, I guess. I’m having my mail set up to be forwarded to my parents but won’t actually be living there, and I’m doing a lot of couch hopping with friends local to my job. I plan to keep applying for jobs in the meantime, and am not sure what address (if any) I should put on my resume.

    1. aaanon*

      You don’t have much choice, it seems; I would definitely go ahead and put your parent’s address, and just let them know to call you if you get anything that looks official. That’s what I’ve done with my sister who was in a similar situation. As an aside, though, I don’t think many places even bother looking at your address, except for maybe as a “huh” moment.

    2. k*

      Is your parents address local to where you’re applying? If so, I’d use that. If they’re not local, ask one of the friends you are staying with if you can put their address down. If it comes up, it’s totally reasonable to say that you’re in the process of finding a new place and that it is a temporary address. Job hunting and hiring doesn’t include much physical mail these days, so the address is really there to tell them if you’re a local candidate or if you’d be relocating. Once you’re hired, you can put a different address on your official paper work, again with the explanation that you’re in the moving process.

      1. Xanthippe Lannister Voorhees*

        Generally speaking (I’m applying all over the place) neither my parents’ address or the addresses near where I work are local to where I’m applying.

        (Occasionally I do have a local friend, and then I ask if I can use their address)

        1. Anna Held*

          Do that. No one will use the address for anything other than noticing you’re local (if that). I’ve even seen advice to leave it off, since no one uses it, but I liked it to signify that I was local, since my job history wasn’t.

    3. Undine*

      I haven’t put a street address on my resume since contact moved to email. It made sense in the days when they would contact you by mail, and I expect it’s mostly a holdover from that. If you want, you can put the city to show that you are local.

    4. Sibley*

      I just updated my resume this week and took off the address entirely. Good luck hunting!

  108. she was a fast machine*

    AAMers, I have a question about thank you etiquette in the office. I’m a struggling student who has been lucky enough to get a full time job at a very nice organization where the vast majority of my peers make much more than I do and/or are married/have two incomes.

    One of my coworkers has recently lost a large amount of weight and had been asking around for good places to donate clothes to, since she doesn’t live in the town we work in. I suggested our local women’s shelter’s thrift shop, and in the process of discussing them my coworker decided to offer me the clothes instead, on the stipulation that I drop the ones I won’t use off at the thrift shop. Over the past month or so, she’s given me probably six trashbags FULL of clothes, and though I can’t wear all of them, I have gotten a lot of stuff. It has completely revolutionized my wardrobe and I feel so happy to finally be able to wear a variety of clothes that fit and look good on me and not just the same pair of pants every day. Every once in a while I’ll find a small bag by my desk of more clothes that she’s found in her cleaning process. This coworker is a sweetheart and I’ve thanked her in person, but she’s literally given me hundreds of dollars worth of clothing, so I feel like a proper hand-written thank you note is in order. Is that weird? Should I just not make a deal out of it? If so, what’s the right way to approach that?

    I also have recently had another coworker write me a check for a not-insignificant amount($200+) after I mentioned trying to scrounge up some money for books for the fall semester. This is another situation where I feel incredibly grateful and would like to do something for her, but I have no idea what. I want to again write a thank you note, but I don’t know if it’s appropriate here either.

    For both of these people, their gifts have probably been almost nothing in their mind, but for me have been incredible. I want to let them know just how meaningful it is, but I don’t want to make it awkward or to seem like I’m saying thank you a ton of times. What would you suggest, my fellow commentors?

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Heartfelt thank-you notes in both situations.

      And with the first one, I would be delighted in her shoes if you told me what you wrote here:”It has completely revolutionized my wardrobe and I feel so happy to finally be able to wear a variety of clothes that fit and look good on me and not just the same pair of pants every day.”

      2. she was a fast machine*

        And I literally JUST realized it’s Alison with one l! I can’t believe how long I’ve been getting it wrong! *mortified face*

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Ha, I honestly do not care. People do that about 50% of the time so I am utterly desensitized to it.

          I once gave my youngest niece crap for doing it though (as I do think family members should know how to spell it) and now she addresses everything to me as “Alllllllllison.”

          1. Beth Anne*

            lol my middle name is Anne with an E and feel your pain people always forget the E. When I got married I dropped my middle name b/c it annoyed me so much haha

    2. Fake Eleanor*

      Out of curiosity: Why would you think a thank-you note would be inappropriate in either scenario? I mean, I’m not always great with thank-you notes, so no judgement, but it’s odd to me that you think they might not be suitable and I’d like to know more about why.

      1. WellRed*

        I can see being on the fence about the clothes. The coworker wants rid of them and the writer has to lug the leftovers to goodwill or whatever. But, yes, a thank you note is really never amiss.

  109. Sunshine on a cloudy day*

    Any advice on how to screen for workplaces that value diversity in terms of work styles/personalities within the company and particularly within the department or group I’d be working in? I acknowledge that I have a fairly speciifc work style, however I really value different points of view and feel like I do my best work when I work with those different styles. However, my biggest pet peeve (and biggest struggle, b/c I haven’t figured out a good approach to this kind of situation) is working with people who are very dogmatic in their approach to the work. Nothing makes me see red quicker than when working with someone who thinks their approach is the ONLY way, when it is objectively not. I also get very frustrated when my manager/supervisor can’t really separate what works for them vs. what are the objective needs of the role.

    Does anybody have ideas for questions for screening for this sort of thing – both from a potential manager and to get a sense of if this valued for department as a whole? My last role involved working very closely with a girl who was my exact opposite in terms of work style and strengths/weaknesses. Honestly I think we could have been a super team, but she couldn’t grasp in any sense that sometimes there are multiple ways of doing things (sometimes there’s not, but sometimes there is). My current role is for a rather large department, but its a little bit Stepford-y. I don’t think it’s on purpose – I just think that manager of our team is not actively looking for people with diverse view points, skills or styles. I think we’d be a much stronger team if we had that.

  110. Spills*

    Have an interesting situation that I was tangentially involved in, that I’m interested in hearing people’s perspectives on. I worked for an awful consulting firm, where within the year that I was there, 5 people on the team left (on a team of 8) there was a sexual harrassment incident that our entire team was involved in, and our boss regularly lied to our executive committee, putting our team in the middle. All of these incidents stemmed from poor leadership and decision making by that boss.

    Towards the end of last year, they finally decided that they were going to “transition” the boss off the team, to avoid further drama and conflicts. They hired another director, this time in a different location than ours. After her hire, my team was reassured repeatedly that we would not be asked to relocate. Several weeks later….you guessed it, the new director came up and told us all that we were being offered to relocate, or leave. However, they did offer us 6 months time to find a new gig, and promised to be generous and flexible with time needed for interviewing, as long as we did our part for the transition. We were all impressed with the gracious way the new director was handling this, if disappointed at the outcome.

    Fast forward to now–the June deadline for the transition. Two of us have found new roles, and my third colleague is still searching. In the past month, the director has become increasingly agitated at this last person left, calling her out aggressively in front of the whole team for taking time off, saying that she “did us a favor” by giving 6 months and no other employer would have done that, and said that the 6 months were an opportunity to prove that she was worth keeping on the team (that was never the spin she put on it previously, and it would be awful to think she was making us prove ourselves for our jobs that we had already been doing for a year prior to her arrival). Basically, it seemed like her whole gracious boss spiel was an act, just so that she could buy herself some time to hire some new team members in her new location. My friend is so miserable that she is considering just quitting outright, instead of finishing out the rest of the time. What would you do in such a situation?

      1. Spills*

        That is true. She is reasonably certain she will get an offer in the next week or so, but I do know that nothing is certain. For me, I’d probably stick it out, but I also got out of there as soon as I could, so who knows!

    2. Chaordic One*

      Your new director is being a jerk. In some situations your friend might consider asking to be fired, so she could collect unemployment, but if your director is into playing games and if she feels that she can’t count on him to act responsibly, then I would also recommend hanging on for as long as possible and finishing out the rest of the time if need be.

      That said, I certainly hope that she gets an offer from someplace else and the sooner the better.

  111. Jo*

    Reviewed a stack of cover letters with coworkers today. Out of maybe 20-25 of them (all second-round picks), two of them had accidentally left in bits from other applications.

    BE CAREFUL, KIDS!

    1. Abby Nonymous*

      I’m going thru apps this week also, and I found so many with the objectives stating that they wanted to work for (different entity not us), etc. One of them attached a cover letter for a completely different type of job. Her work history was good so I passed her to the next step hoping it was just an oversight, by it still had me raising an eyebrow a little.

  112. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    I rejected a lowball offer that came from a low-star rated company (think: Glassdoor ratings) that literally said “run for your life!”

    If the job had even a tad more pay and no Glassdoor weird review, I would’ve accepted in a heartbeat, and it could’ve led to a new specialized career path.

    As it is, I’m moping around at work, doing well, liking colleagues well enough, but this plus minor dentalwork and aunt flo have me feeling incredibly awful physically/mentally X(((((

    And I keep second-guessing myself. Did I make the right call (to avoid a lower-paying job/4% paycut, and going based on a terrible Glassdoor review about the company, specific to the floor/management I’d be under)?

    1. Amelia Bedelia*

      I think you made the right decision.

      At my last company, I was way underpaid, and the environment was BEYOND toxic. Only after I began working did I read all the awful, terrible reviews on Glassdoor! The fact that the company had a low-star rating overall tells me that the majority of the reviews were bad – don’t beat yourself up! You did the right thing.

  113. AwkwardKaterpillar*

    So – this just happened, hopefully it will bring some laughter to your day

    I was working with a customer and getting ready to end the call when I got a call on my cell. I have it on silent but a picture of the person calling will display.

    It was my mom – so as I was saying goodbye to the customer I was thinking about talking to my mom. And so rather than letting the customer know to have a good day, I told her I loved her.

    She thought it was pretty funny, and so do the rest of my coworkers.

    1. writelhd*

      Sort of related, I am mentoring a colleague who has been shadowing me to client meetings. She was about 7 months pregnant during one meeting, which might or might not been relevant to what happened: we’d been meeting with a particular challenging client–a dear man, to be sure, but very nervous, not very knowledgeable about the technical stuff we sell but having the kind of personality who wants to understand it, so he needed a lot metaphorical hand-holding and we’d been meeting with him for a few long hours) and she got up to leave, spontaneously swooping in to give him a hug. He clearly shrank back from her, and awkwardly shoved his hand out for a handshake instead to fend her off, which she (horrified at realizing what she’d just done) took and then left quickly. She told the rest of later us how she swears she’s not usually a hugger and she has no idea where that came from.

  114. Caledonia*

    It has been a long week.

    Sigh.

    I guess I just want to know if there is a non angry way to convey the fact that an academic (who looks after my course as a whole) didn’t read an email and blew it up into something that it didn’t need, had already been dealt with by the relevant dept and I didn’t have time for?

    This behaviour needs to stop.

    1. Simone R*

      Ugh I have too much experience trying to convey stuff to a professor in a non-angry way while I am very angry. Not sure if it’s the best approach but I tend to act like it’s a whole misunderstanding, reiterate what I saw happening, what I thought they misunderstood it as and lay out the bad consequences and ask how they’ve want me to handle it in the future. Such as I told you A, you thought B and your actions caused, which was a problem because D. How should we approach A in the future to prevent C from ever happening again?

      That way their actions get connected to the bad result but it’s couched in problem solving. It’s worked for me!

  115. Jo*

    I am really enjoying looking at these applications with people from other departments, because it becomes clear which lines of bullshit work on people with direct experience in the job role vs. indirect experience. I was able to spot the people clearly beefing up near-irrelevant experience in one area that the other people missed, and vice versa.

  116. Super anon today*

    I need some advice about a creepy situation I have been dealing with. I met a guy online and chatted with for a few months, but we never ended up going out or meeting in person. After going through a lot and him being a jerk, I stopped contacting him over a year ago. He proceeded to message me in a myriad of ways for months, even trying to friend me on fb when I had never given him my last name (my account is not linked to my number). I ended up blocking his number and disabling every bit of social media I had including linkedin, fb, and a few other sites. I also wiped any images of me off google and got most of my stuff off those public records things. He would occasionally still manage to get through somehow. It wasn’t what he said per se, just the persistence after prolonged no contact. In any case, a story came out about him and it turns out I am not the only one. This is bringing up all sorts of feelings for me and making me question my safety again. The last time he got through was months ago, but as I blocked and disabled yet again, I am not sure if he has tried since then.

    Here is where it gets work related, I have an extremely distinctive name. If googling my nickname or real name, there are only 1 or 2 of us that pop up depending which iteration is used. He never knew my birth name, but I also thouyght he didn’t know my last name. In any case, I work for a government entity where if he got ahold of my real name, he could possibly figure out where I work. Does anyone have experience with getting their information removed while working in government position. This may be overkill, but seeing as I was clearly right to be creeped out, I want to protect myself. I don’t believe there is anything police could do since it’s only a message here and there every few months, so I would like to not focus on that, but the question at hand about removing my info. Thanks for suggestions.

    TL, DR: I have a creepy situation and am trying to figure out if I can have my personal info removed from my work for the government website.

    1. TCO*

      I’m sorry to hear you’re experiencing this. Could you consult with HR about your privacy needs, and maybe with IT about what’s possible in terms of online presence? Don’t be embarrassed to talk to them–you’ve done nothing wrong here and you’re not asking for anything extraordinary. Your agency may already have procedures in place for people needing privacy due to domestic violence, custody battles, stalking like yours, etc.

      1. Super anon today*

        Thank you for the suggestions. I will look into those things. I figured I couldn’t have been the only person with this problem. He did not take it well when I ended things and was very angry despite the fact that we had barely talked for the month before. So, I don’t think my worries are completely unfounded.

  117. Caledonia*

    Annual reviews!

    Unlike 99% of people I am excited to have an annual review because goals! I think my manager while take the review seriously (unlike my last one who was just doing it to ticks box) and I like my job but I need goals. I’m thinking of asking for some shadowing in a related dept and also meeting the academics I work with but what else can I ask for?

    Relevant details – admin, 8 months in this job, university.

  118. GuitarLady*

    Does anyone have good suggestions for advertising nationwide/internationally for a service? My husband works as a professional tutor in some very hard-to-find subjects and while he generally works in person, he often gets requests from people around the country and even on other continents for online tutoring. He would really like to expand his online business so we could be more mobile, but his normal avenues for getting clients usually limit him to advertising only in his local area. And since he is just a small operation, I’m not sure how much Google advertising we could afford. Anyone have experience with his, either in tutoring or in another remote-services field like graphic or website design? How do you expand your pool from just local clients, when you can theoretically work with people from anywhere?

    1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      I havent done this but I read a ton of blogs of the people that have. Perhaps do some online searches for those types (think of the people living 3 months in different countries) and see if they have a resources page for how they manage their business on the road. I do remember recently reading about a company that tried to package this up for a cohort group and shuffle them around to different countries to “work remotely”… ah haha – remoteyear.com. But what you want to do is search for the atlas obscura critique on the program of someone who signed up to see if it was really worth it and worked – had some excellent points about the downsides that these folks never talk about.

      Does your husband have a blog? That sounds trite, but if it is specialied tutoring then I imagine people searching for that look for certain topics. That way he could write on various bits offering free information and a funnel for more extensive tutoring AND it ought to have really good searchability without really spending a lot (or any) on advertising. Build it out as a platform (e.g. maybe he writes a tutorial guide and sells it through there, connects with other experts or whatever) and that should be a good basic business driver.

      Otherwise – where do these people needing the tutoring hang out online? Are they heavily into an association or other related group where he could write a guest column or advertise on there? If he were looking for tutoring what would he do?

      1. Guitar Lady*

        Thank you for the suggestions! Would I find these sorts of blogs if I search something like “people who work remotely blog”?

        1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

          Have a search for “digital nomad” and blog. That should toss up the folks who are well known (e.g. quit jobs, live out of a van in Panama, work remotely doing web design/social media/consulting/whatever). I think thats more the angle than remote working whcih will include more corporate things, like the stuff we talk about here!

  119. Networking Newbie*

    I have a networking question. I’m sure I’m over thinking it, but I’m a new-ish grad so still trying to figure out how to maintain professional relationships. I recently met someone at a conference in my field. I mentioned how I was learning at lot at my job, but as it’s a small company I don’t have a mentor or anyone to ask questions when I get stuck. She gave me her information and told me not to hesitate to reach out if I needed anything. Is there a rule of thumb for how often to contact her, or the types of questions I’m allowed to ask? And if I don’t have questions, are there other things I should be doing to maintain the relationship, or is it okay to still reach out to her after months of silence?

    1. costume teapot*

      Months of silence happen! I try to reach out to my contacts twice a year–that’s six months of silence between conversation, unless something else comes up and I contact them sooner.

      These sound like questions you should ask her. Some people are really invested and want to help all they can, but others really only have time for a question or two. She’s the only one who knows for her!

  120. Attractive Nuisance*

    I learned a couple days ago that a new leadership position, in an area of my expertise, which I helped to design (although it’s in a very separate part of the company) is being handed to my “ideas guy” peer who lacks expertise in the area of focus, but manages up very aggressively. I’m digging deep and being gracious and proactive about expressing my interest in other related roles, should they arise. Very, very deep, past the thick mantle of resentment, to the thin trickle of goodwill I found under there.

    This is a Fortune 500 company; the benefits are good; I like my colleagues (even that one, often). I don’t especially want to go elsewhere. Any experience with getting past the resentment?

    1. JulieBulie*

      If you have the right kind of relationship with the right person, you could maybe mention that you would have been interested in that position, and would like to be considered if something like that comes up again.

      If you can’t do that – or even if you can, now that I think of it – show them (do not tell them) that they picked the wrong person. Not by sabotaging the peer, but by just being way awesomer.

      1. Undine*

        I would add to that, if you tell someone you are interested, ask them what you can do to become more qualified.

  121. Stranger than fiction*

    Be careful what you wish for…
    I just wanted to vent a bit about all the craziness here. For the longest time, we had no turnover and no change. We especially needed these things in sales, as we hit a plateau in 2015 after several years of growth.
    Well, last fall we finally started making changes- got a new head of sales who only lasted four months, then we got another one that only seems concerned with hounding and closing the old school way. The second one let some long time salespeople go who had been stagnant, but did so as soon as they hired new people without giving them time to ramp up first. The divide between sales and support is stronger than ever. Former procedures and policies are being flagrantly ignored. I’m a liaison so to speak between these departments and it’s crushing me. I wanted change but not like this. Ultimately, it’s up to the owner to come down on them, but their short term focus is to get sales back up. In doing so, they’re selling the product/service incorrectly and leaving it up to the support/service folks to unwind their messes. I was tasked to do research last year and have found the answers and we really need to bring in a consultant to make the teams understand the value of working together cohesively, but I’m told we’re now so shorthanded that training has to take a back seat for the moment. I feel like we’re stuck in a vicious circle, but I see the vision and the potential and want to stick around to help make that happen. Meanwhile I’m growing frustrated and losing my patience. It’s like a civil war around here.

    1. Chaordic One*

      It sucks. I hope you’re taking good care of yourself. In a time like this it is awfully easy to take on more work than you should and to then become burnt-out. It sounds like that is a big risk for your support/service folks.

  122. Me*

    Sigh.

    Another “Your qualifications do not fit this position” email, a DAY after I applied. It was a basic office job; there are three like it on my resume. Also, the job I took the clerical testing for last week, that was so hot to push candidates through this week, has not contacted me AT ALL. Maybe the process is slower than they’d hoped, but the listing is no longer up. :(

    I am either in some weird no-man’s land between underqualified and overqualified (I suspect this one for these two jobs), or I’m completely unemployable. And of course, no employers outside this city have replied to me either. I’ve had better luck finding listings on Indeed when I use ‘ technical editor writer’ as the criteria than ‘writer editor.’ The latter pulls up more aerospace jobs, which is nice but I’m unqualified for those positions and probably couldn’t get a clearance because of my massive student loan debt. I’m afraid all the admin jobs are pigeonholing me, however.

    I re-applied at a company in Redlands, CA where I had submitted an app for a tech writer position; that one was a bit of a reach, but this one is a copy editor position that is everything I loved about Exjob (please please please please). Redlands is further inland than I wanted but still not so far from the coast (it’s about an hour from downtown L.A. so I could still be close to fun stuff). However, at the rate ice is melting, the coastline might eventually be further inland too! The pay might be shittier than I wanted also–but I’m fine with living in a less-than-perfect area. Hell, I live in one now.

    Now to take the walk I’ve been procrastinating on and work on another query and forget this job exists. *butIwantitIwantitIwantit*

    1. Katie the Fed*

      FYI – student loan debts alone won’t keep you from getting a security clearance. It’s when you haven’t been paying them that there’s a big problem.

      1. Me*

        Well I’m on an unemployment deferment, but I was paying after I got out of default and reconsolidated. I don’t know if that would count?
        I don’t know if my very vocal resistance would count either. ;)

    3. SeekingBetter*

      Hang in there, Elizabeth! I do really hope you hear back from the place that you took the clerical testing so at least you get closure either way or the other on it. Keep at it and good luck!!

    4. ..Kat..*

      Oh, Elizabeth. I am sending you internet hugs. Big, big hugs. If I could improve things for you through sheer force of will I would.

  123. Amber Rose*

    So after some chatting with people on the other topic, I kind of want to create a “Most Inappropriate for Work” playlist.

    But maybe we can leave that for tomorrow.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Also anything by Denis Leary. Which is too bad, because sometimes I still find myself humming the Asshole song.

        Also I guess the lyrics for Because I Got High were a bit shocking for someone on the other topic. :D
        I’m listening to it right now. Reminds me of junior high. In some ways, songs were dirtier in the 90’s than now.

    2. LCL*

      For extra points, relate to some theme.
      My theme for this is bass.
      Which brings us to The Lemon Song by Led Zeppelin, and Vibrator by Motorhead.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Tim Wilson – I Could Be Wrong. I hate country music but that song is funny as hell (language warning for the uncensored version).

      Know where I first heard it? At work. Somebody was playing it at OldExJob on YouTube when the boss was out of the office. :D

    5. Mints*

      Oh man I just remembered a weird thing that happened at work. We were playing a Pandora station that was mostly top 40/ generic pop music, but occasionally drifted into hip hop that was never hardcore but maybe questionable (like Justin Bieber, or like mild Drake) One time a coworker said “Ugh I hate this music that’s all about sex and drugs.” HOWEVER the song was a commercial about buying a car over a hip hop beat. I was just like ???¿¿????
      My coworker who was managing the station was like “Oh…” and muted it.

  124. no name in shame*

    Autocorrect fail story. I sent out a resume yesterday, with the cover letter as the body of the email.
    “Dear Mr.____,
    We met last month at ____ conference. I was excited to see your post on NY__.ORG calling for a teapot engagement specialist…”

    Well, my ipad auto corrected the name of the job website to nefarious dot org.

    NEFARIOUS!!!!!

    I realized just after I sent it and sent a quick apology email. How embarrassing!

    1. Rebecca*

      That is embarrassing! One of my favorite things was an email I received years ago from a factory in China. It went something like this “Factory is ever so very sorry for an incontinence caused” when they meant “inconvenience”. We all chuckled about that, but never said anything to our contact there.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Hahahaha!

      That reminds me of something; my parents used to run a Hallmark store called something like Your Local Card and Gift Shop. Once they got an advertisement with a letter in the mail from some tchotchke vendor, the old-time equivalent of B2B spam. The letter began like this:

      Your Local Card and Gift Shop
      1234 E Main Street
      City, ST Zip

      Dear Mrs. Shop:

  125. Anonymeow*

    I’ve been lurking AAM for a while, but this is my first comment here! The advice on this website really helped me prepare for my interview and get the job, but now unfortunately I need advice on how to deal with my toxic work environment.
    I’m in my first job out of college, and I’ve been here for about 7 months now. My boss is a huge micromanager and a screamer, and he’ll scream at his employees for issues that were reported to him multiple times, which he either conveniently forgot about or didn’t bother to read the emails/notes detailing the situation. On the bright side, this job has shown me what a bad work environment is, and it’s given me the motivation to go back to school for a different subject in 2018.
    I’ve read through most of the posts in the archives about bad bosses, jerks in the workplace, etc. but it seems like the general advice is to look for a new job ASAP and get out… which I’d definitely do if I didn’t plan on moving out of the country for school early next year! I don’t want to have 2 short jobs on my resume in case I ever decide to come back and look for another job in this area. Plus, I moved into this permanent position after working as a student assistant for the same department for the last 3 years, so I don’t have any other references I can count on. I’m counting out my current boss as a reference, but I’ve been working closely with another person since I started the permanent position and I’d like to at least secure a good reference from them since they are well-respected in their field.
    Does anyone have advice on how to deal with a super toxic workplace for a few months when you have an end date in mind and want to keep some bridges intact? According to my coworker, my boss screamed at him basically every day of last summer and I’m really dreading coming into work for the next 3 months :( I think my 2nd boss is aware of the situation, given the hints he’s dropped before and the way he acts, but I get the feeling that any sort of talk with him will just lead to uncomfortable convos with the bad boss and make the situation 10x worse for us in the end.

    1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. I’ve been there. The only thing that kept me from completely losing it at work was thinking about my end date. Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel helped a lot. Leave work at work, and plan things that you enjoy and can look forward to for the times you are not at work. Get as much sleep as you can. If you are struggling to get out of bed to go to work in the morning, create a nice morning routine for yourself (mine is coffee and a hot muffin from my favorite cafe on rough days). As far as what to do when you are at work, try to take short breaks if you feel yourself getting overwhelmed.
      I hope you find something better soon!

    2. JulieBulie*

      I was in a remarkably similar situation when I was still in college.

      Every time my boss acted like a jerk (i.e. continuously for 40 hours a week all summer long), I would simply think about how sweet it would be to quit. And it WAS sweet.

      He ended up not being someone I’d consider using as a reference; he was really pissed off at me, plus several of my coworkers quit within the next few weeks after I left, and came to work for my new employer, who was thrilled to have them. In addition, he ended up declaring bankruptcy (for the company, not personal) and actually went into hiding. So, no reference regardless.

      But it was okay, because my new employer and her managers were GREAT references, and I didn’t need anything from my exboss.

      (I also had a crazy supervisor at another job and was worried that she would give me a bad reference, but I found out later that she was a laughingstock within her sphere of influence and no one who mattered cared about her opinion.)

  126. Time Bomb of Petulance*

    I’ve worked in a few incredibly toxic places since I finished school. It got to the point where when I went somewhere semi-functional, I was the toxic person because of the coping mechanisms I’d developed over time. Anyway, I’ve finally found a place I love where it’s not perfect (nowhere is), but it’s the healthiest work environment I’ve ever been in. I’m thankful for it and wish I could stay longer (but I’m there for a limited term). It’s so nice to have a new normal!

  127. Michael Malloy*

    For some background, I worked at one organization for a very long time (21 years). I took an early retirement offer, but I’m still well within my prime working years, so I moved into looking for a new job. My qualifications are quite good. I have two graduate degrees, and a very respected professional certification in my field, so I found a job quickly. After two years in my current role, I started looking again, simply because I have found this job not quite challenging enough. My resume generated a fair amount of interest, and I interviewed for a couple of new roles.

    I moved through one interview process, and they asked me for references. I provided some, but they contacted me again and asked for former supervisors (the ones I provided were not my direct supervisors).

    My challenge is that I truly don’t have references. I have literally spoken to no one from my old job in about 3 years and I pretty much worked in one place most of my adult life. Honestly, I don’t go to work to make friends, and I’m really not that nice a person. I’m not mean or rude or anything, I just don’t like other people all that much. I know people joke around about this, but in my case it’s true. I’ve lived by myself since I was 17. I have no family to speak of. I own 138 acres of land, and I live in the middle of it by myself. I’m at the library writing this note because I have no internet, television, or phone service at my house. Yes, I’m “that guy”, and I’m totally happy.

    My work performance was always fine, but really people don’t like me, and I’m fine with that. Again, I’m not mean or anything, I just really prefer to mind my own business, and I don’t care about anyone else’s business, so I don’t ask. People really struggle giving references to people they truly don’t know on some personal level, and there is not one person I’ve worked with, who has any knowledge of me personally, because I don’t share it. People perceive this as “weird” or “mean” but I’m just extremely private and introverted, and to be fair, a little self-absorbed, because I don’t care about my co-workers in even the smallest way.

    I get the “send them an e-mail and check” thing, but that is extremely unlikely to work in my case. These people don’t know me at all. Any advice on how to get good references from people who don’t really know, or like you?

    1. CAA*

      “People really struggle giving references to people they truly don’t know on some personal level” … wow, you are really generalizing there. Just because you would have difficulty giving a reference in this situation doesn’t mean that everyone else will. I give references all the time, and I think I’m perfectly capable of talking about someone’s work even if I don’t know what they did last Saturday. Most of the references I give are for people I haven’t seen or spoken to in over a year, so it’s not like I consider them personal friends and nobody has ever asked me if I like the person they’re checking on. If somebody does ask how a candidate like you gets along with their coworkers, I would just say something like “Michael was not very outgoing, but I’m not aware of him having any conflicts with his coworkers.”

      The one and only way to get someone to be a reference is to contact them and ask them. (Well, I guess you could just put down their contact info without asking, but that is certainly more likely to result in a negative reference than if you just ask.)

  128. Princess Buttercup*

    What’s the best way to find out about a possible career path without knowing anyone in that career?
    Would it be weird to call the association for that job and ask about it?

    1. Emi.*

      If it’s a career path associated with a certain degree or academic program, I’d look at the relevant departments’ webpages and see if they have any resources, or email the professors and ask if you could come for an informational interview during their office hours. But calling/emailing the association doesn’t sound too weird to me.

  129. Anon Accountant*

    Just a quick side note before getting back to work. My work best friend is leaving. She’s excellent, very ethical, intelligent and happy to leave.

    Sad note. A drama causing, ringleader of a clique is coming back. It was sooooo much better in the 5 months she was gone. Back to the drama, back stabbing, snide, deragotory comments made to others.

    So who has applied like her life depends on it? Posted resume on Monster & Indeed? Contacted every recruiter in the area? ME!!

    1. whichsister*

      my work best friend’s last day was this week. I miss her already. We kept each other sane in this place of insanity. Since she told me she was giving notice, I upped my job hunt efforts and its paid off in interviews. best of luck to you

  130. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

    Hi All. I have a question. I’ve recently started to look for a new job. For job history, I put my current job (which I’ve had for 4 years now). I would also like to list my previous job as it made up a large portion of my career (almost 20 years). The problem is my department at OldJob is no longer in existence. Should /Could I still list OldJob?

    1. Emi.*

      Sure you can! You had the job, and that’s what matters for your job history. If you get to a reference check, you can say that the department doesn’t exist anymore and offer them a different way to get in tough with your manager.

  131. LadyKelvin*

    I was asked if I was an intern yesterday by someone who I’ve seen around here a lot (I’ve been here since February). I get that it is intern season, but I just celebrated my 30th birthday and I’m really tired of people thinking I’m so much younger than I am. And please don’t tell me I’ll be grateful when I’m older, because it is hard enough to be taken seriously in my male-dominated field I don’t need people assuming I’m a college student as well. And yes, I do every thing I can to look older, make-up, dress pants instead of jeans, etc. At least the people on my team know I know my stuff and treat me like an equal.

    1. Amber Rose*

      No advice, just empathy. I turn 30 next year, and for the last 5 years I’ve been getting those comments.

      I don’t actually do much to look older, but these comments are usually over the phone, so what the heck. I might as well be comfy.

    2. Rincat*

      I totally empathize – I’m 33 and I work at a university in the IT department, and like you, no matter what I do I look really young. I get really tired of the “so what are you studying?” comments. Professional clothes don’t help much since there are a lot of programs on campus that require the students to look nice (like the MBAs).

    3. Liet-Kynes*

      My wife has the same problem. She’s 31, an organizational psychologist with a PhD, former Israeli military, but looks 25 tops and constantly has to fight back against comments and assumptions that she’s a wet-behind-the-ears college kid.

    4. Stranger than fiction*

      If it makes you feel any better, when my bf was about six months into his current job – as a permanent, regular full time employee – someone thought he was a contractor, which answered the question why he wasn’t being included in certain things.

    5. JulieBulie*

      I sympathize. I dealt with that until I was nearly 40.

      I am older now, but I’m not grateful. I believe it had a negative effect in the early days of my career. It sucked.

      Actually, a year ago, when I was 48, I got carded at the liquor store AND was given a senior citizen discount at KFC on the same day.

    6. Overeducated*

      I sometimes experience this confusion and, obnoxious as it seems, finding an excuse to mention your education or prior job helps people place you more accurately. Like, “oh, you’re an intern/administration assistant? Where do you go to college?” “I got my PhD at Best U.”

    7. SeekingBetter*

      lol, I get the “you look way younger than you are” ALL OF THE TIME. I look at least 10 years younger than I actually am. But I enjoy being mistaken for younger, because that’ll mean I will look 35 when I’m actually closer to 50 ^0^

  132. RDC*

    Can anyone recommend interview questions to gauge work-life balance? I have two young kids so I’m looking for a job with reasonable hours and infrequent after-hours demands; bonus points for understanding bosses who don’t give me grief for needing to pick up a sick kid. But I’d rather avoid the direct question (how is the work-life balance here?) both to avoid mommy-tracking myself and since it so rarely offers any real insight. (Everyone claims it’s great, but that might not have any connection to reality.) Any suggestions on alternative phrasing or other questions that help evaluate work-life balance?

    1. Ramona Quimby*

      I’ve used:
      — Tell me a little bit about how folks treat email hours — are there times when ppl are offline?
      — What’s the office culture like? Do most people get in early, leave around 5? Get in late, stay a little later?
      — I’m really in favor of creating healthy boundaries for my work and my life. Could you tell me if that’s something people here are interested in as well?

    2. TCO*

      I ask:
      – What is the schedule like for this position? What are the typical hours, and how much variation is there from that?
      – Is full-time at this organization generally considered 40 hours, or is it more?

      Because employers seem to be increasingly aware that work-life balance is desireable to candidates, I often find that employers fall all over themselves to answer these questions with information about schedules, flexibility, PTO, productivity expectations, anecdotes about their own work-life balance, etc.

  133. Not So Bad Candidate*

    When should managers announce that an employee is leaving? I put my notice in on the 6th with my end date being the 23rd. (Longer than the normal 2 weeks for various reasons, not contract or anything.) And my manager has said exactly nothing. No email, no announcement, nothing. She’s new to the team but not new to being a manager so I’m sort of just baffled.

    1. JulieBulie*

      If the person who is leaving is a manager, we usually hear about it within a week. But I don’t recall ever, since 1989, getting any kind of notification from management about a worker bee leaving, unless they were retiring and there was going to be a party. Normally, the employee decides when and how to inform coworkers.

      1. Not So Bad Candidate*

        Really? Everywhere I’ve ever worked an email went out to the team “So and so’s last day with the company is X, we’ll be reassigning her projects shortly. We wish her all the best.” Etc. Other than when I worked at a call center and didn’t even have email, there was always something said ahead of time.

        1. JulieBulie*

          Never. If it isn’t being kept a secret, the person’s manager might reach out to various people to ask them to pick up that person’s work, but I have literally never seen a general announcement from management about a non-manager’s voluntary exit. Probably the reason is that some people prefer to leave discreetly and without a fuss.

          That doesn’t mean that people don’t get going-away lunches and such. Most people do tell at least a few that they’re leaving, and then the word spreads. As long as it doesn’t remain a secret, you’d get a lunch or something. But if you decided to keep it under your hat, they wouldn’t spread the word.

          Oh, and it might be different in a sales organizations or something like that where the person has clients.

  134. Stuck in Second Gear*

    I’ve been interviewing for different positions over the last couple of years and the ones that have aligned the most with my experience and skills tend to end in a “close second, but no cigar” result. These rejections have come through by voicemails but I can’t seem to get a hold of interviewers for feedback.

    I understand interviewers don’t have an obligation to provide specific feedback to me. Still, I’m frustrated because I want to know where I can make personal improvements for the future. It leaves me feeling I’m lacking something unknown and I cannot move forward professionally unless I fill in that gap. My current role is stagnating my growth and these rejections make me feel pigeonholed, doomed to be in the same job forever.

    How do I get the feedback I need to move on?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      This all sounds really familiar. I’m sorry to say I haven’t cracked the code yet, myself, but I wanted to chip in to say hang in there (I know, super not useful)! I was going through a networking push early in the year that has tapered off a bit – my next push (once I can bring myself to do it) is to get back in contact with prior managers specifically and try and pick their brains and reconnect. Maybe that’s something you can try?

      1. Stuck in Second Gear*

        Thank you for the advice. I think one of the issues is assuming I am saying the right things during the interviews, but not having much luck finding out what things need to be addressed from the hiring manager’s perspective. When they say they found someone with more experience, that’s still incredibly vague.

    2. Ramona Flowers*

      Are you asking by phone? That sounds kind of awkward if so and you might have more luck if you email.

      1. Stuck in Second Gear*

        It is by phone. Due to how the interviews were set up, I didn’t get emails of the people doing the actual interviewing. Emails would be my preferred choice of contact too, but I don’t want to come across as demanding or desperate if I push or ask for emails when they only give out their phone number.

    3. AKG*

      I was in the same boat for a long time. I finally cracked the code by asking a good friend for honest feedback. She hires a lot of people in her line of work and although we didn’t do a mock interview or anything, she was quick to tell me that just from my personality she suspected that I was coming across enthusiastic enough. She asked me if I was making an effort to sound excited about the position both in tone of voice and in wording. I said no – I applied didn’t I, that means I’m interested! So I’ve been making an effort to up my game in that area and it’s been paying off substantially. When I feel mildly uncomfortable and like I’m being fakely enthusiastic that seems to be other people’s normal. This is so individual though, so of course what my issue was won’t be what yours is probably. But my best advice is to consult an honest friend or former manager and see if you can gain some insight.

  135. Handy Nickname*

    Vacation time etiquette question:

    I had a pre-scheduled vacation day today for a relatively low- importance event out of town, but ended up being put sick with a fairly serious medical issue for a day and a half earlier this week. It’s kind of a pain that I’m gone today, but I still went because it was already scheduled. Should I have cancelled my plans to work today since I was unexpectedly out half the week (some of my work has to be gone regardless, so a few coworkers picked up the slack earlier and today), or would that have been over-conscientious?

    1. em2mb*

      I don’t think you have to cancel a pre-scheduled vacation just because you happened to get sick that week. Presumably you requested off for a reason.

    2. Courageous Cat*

      Over-conscientious, you can’t control when you get sick. But I completely understand the anxiety in this situation because I’d feel the same way and have to tell myself the same thing.

  136. BB*

    Need advice on large resume gap. About 15 years ago I managed a photography sales business (think scenic framed photos) which included licensing the photography and managing the framing operations for 5 years. After that for several years I was self-employed as an affiliate marketer when online advertising was new. For the past 8 years I’ve not been employed (for mental health reasons) except for a couple of one-off freelance gigs doing SEO, website maintenance, and online presence management. I’m currently taking online courses in web design & web development. My health issues are resolved and I’m ready to look for a job.

    I have a really diverse work history (IT, banking, collections, retail, sales, marketing, admin, bookkeeping) and a lot of transferable skills. I’m confident I would be an excellent employee but I don’t know how to deal with the resume gap. I’m in my mid-50s so that could be an issue as well.

    Any advice would be appreciated!

  137. Courtney W*

    I need some advice/suggestions on my hair. I realize this doesn’t sound work related, but I’m one of those people who is constantly told that I look about 10 years younger than I am, which is problematic since I am gearing up for interviews to find a student teaching placement at the high school level.

    I’ve done a million google searches, but they all lead me to articles about fashion mistakes women make that age them, and not in a context where it’s things I could use to my advantage. At the moment my hair is doing me no favors age-wise – I love having “fun” hair so had one last experience with that, which involved purple and blunt bangs (which are fading/growing out). But I have an appointment to change that next week.

    Basically I’m just looking for generic advice on styles that come across as professional and don’t make you look younger. I have straight, thick, mid-length hair at the moment with some layers and face framing, but it’s so thick that it tends to look messy easily. Bangs are very flattering with my face and glasses, but I keep hearing they make you look younger. Debating growing them out vs going for a more wispy bang and…I don’t know. I realize this question has a lot of “it depends on your face/hair/preference” to it, but I’d appreciate any comments or feedback! (Not just on the hair but clothing too.)

    1. Rincat*

      One thing I’ve found that’s helped me is how I part my hair. If it’s down the center or too close to center – super young. If I part it much more over to the side, that helps look more mature. For hair your length and style, I think you should opt for some side swept bangs and a side part, and pull the hair back into a low bun.

      Oh and I feel you about the fun hair – in my previous hair, I could do whatever I wanted with my hair, so I ran the rainbow for several months with an undercut. LOVED IT. Now I’m back to a basic brown bob and growing out the undercut (which is a mega pain). But I’m hoping once I’ve built up some cred here I can go back to fun hair. :)

    2. AKG*

      I have the same problem (and also currently have fun hair that I will be changing very soon since I’m applying for manager level positions now). Beyond having more conservative and styled hair, I’m also buying higher quality and well fitting clothes. Instead of my usual discount shopping, I’m upgrading my wardrobe from places like Ann Taylor Loft and focusing on good materials and defined fits. Fitted jackets, nice blouses, etc.

      I also read once (maybe on this site) that a big difference between appearing young and looking more polished/put together are the small details. Well kept and polished nails, good quality shoes, hair spray to tame fly-aways, good posture.

      I’m making these suggestions and trying to work on them myself, but it’s so difficult since I hate spending money on clothes and putting effort into my appearance. But trying to give it a shot!

      1. Courtney W*

        Good point about the little details! It is tough – especially since I’m paying thousands of dollars to student teach. But I really want to make a good impression to maximize my chances of getting hired, or at least getting a strong recommendation when it’s over. So I do need to start paying attention to my posture and spending some money for nice clothes and covering up my horrendously bitten down nails. Good luck to you as well!

    3. sometimeswhy*

      Disclaimer: I’ve made some probably-draconian choices based on my industry, my workplace, and my position. Ymmv, etc.

      I’ll start by cosigning the “consider doing away with your fringe” advice. I read very young as compared to my actual age to begin with and fringe just makes it worse for me. Like by 10-15 years younger.

      I also keep my hair up pretty much all the time at work. Part of that is functional (it’s an environment where it’s advisable) but it’s also sort of like a uniform for my head. It’s never interesting. It’s never notable. It’s never noticed. It’s just my work hair. It also allows me to have a little more fun with it when it’s down. I cut it over a month ago, like a foot, and nobody’s noticed yet because what they see during business hours never changes.

      As for clothes, I’ve gone semi-uniform with those too. Not ‘five pairs of identical trousers, five identical tops, and one pair of shoes’ uniform (though it’s tempting) but I wear the same color palate every day. Same (or similar) accessories every day. It all just disappears.

    4. Clever Name*

      I haven’t heard that blunt bangs make one look younger. Maybe try side swept bangs instead? In my experience, having long hair and keeping it down reads as young. If you want to keep your long hair, put it up in a French twist or a low bun. Please avoid a topknot. I think those read as exceptionally young. I still remember a young woman who had a topknot hair style and oversized glasses that are in style now, and those in combination with her clothing just screamed “playing dress up in moms work clothes” to me. And I feel really bad about my reaction, because what she was wearing was really perfectly acceptable.

      1. Courtney W*

        Fortunately I hate how top knots look on me anyways! Although I general I hate how my hair looks pulled back, especially when I don’t have bangs – so I kind of struggle with the general advice I get being to get rid of the bangs and not leave my hair down. I think I’m going to attempt to find a happy medium, if that’s possible.

      2. Courtney W*

        Forgot – I also meant to add that I’ve noticed the oversized glasses trend too. Fortunately mine don’t fit into that category! They are black plastic frames, but they’re a pretty average size. (I’m legally blind, so contacts have never been an option for me and I’ve had lots of time to figure out what glasses styles suit my face shape!)

    5. Panda Bandit*

      For clothing, go for tailored and fairly minimalist styles. Stuff that mimics suits. Classic, rich colors. Small, good quality jewelry, like a thin silver bracelet or small gold earrings. Higher quality fabrics and materials can help you out here.

    7. Humble Schoolmarm*

      Hi! Teacher here! I don’t have a lot of hair advice (except I might try something low maintenance, teachers as a group are not an hour with the flatiron before school kind of people). I think the best clothing advice I can give is avoid anything that would be worn by students. Don’t do jeans, hoodies, leggings or yoga pants. Black dress pants, button-up blouses (buttoned all the way up) blazers and dress shoes (comfy flats or wedges, we teachers are always on our feet). Once you get your internship and the kids are used to you as a grown up presence, you can get a little more relaxed, but I think business attire is the way to go for a little bit. Also, don’t stress too much about it as everyone I know has been mistaken for a student at least once in their early career (last time I wear a knee-length kilt to work!) with no lasting ill-effects.

      Past the interview stage, though, your dress and hair are going to be a lot less important than the tone you set with the students. You can have amazing purple hair and be really successful if you set clear boundaries. Be friendly, but don’t be friends. Make it as clear as you can with your approach that you are an adult. An adult who cares about them, believes in them and will do anything you can to help them succeed, but still an adult and never a peer.

  138. Ramona Quimby*

    Long time reader, first time commenter. I just started in a leadership role @ an org quite recently. I manage one direct report (DR) and my DR has been in the role for almost two years. I was brought in to add some structure and leadership, and frankly, vision to the department – my DR has been understaffed, admittedly. What I am finding is that she also is someone who needs a lot of handholding and guidance, and that’s not my style. She’s also very resistant to feedback and critique, so I find myself double-guessing myself when I need to let my DR know that I’m not happy about performance/quality/etc. I don’t know how to deal with a DR who overshares, uses personal life as excuse for not remembering things/not able to complete tasks with the level of quality I’d like to see, and is generally probably resentful of getting layered by someone younger. Any advice?

    1. fposte*

      Let go of the last bit for a start–you don’t need to read things into it when you’ve got plenty of specifics to focus on.

      If you haven’t already, I’d institute weekly check-ins to discuss what’s going on and how her performance is fitting into your expectations; that might help the handholding need some, too. I’d stress the importance of working independently and give her the checklist you expect her to follow before coming to you; I’d explicitly stress the importance of her receiving feedback effectively to succeed (there’s at least one post here specifically about reports who resist feedback, too), and I’d kindly but firmly shut down the “But my dog got loose/the sun was in my eyes/my kid had a plantar wart” with “I know life stuff can intervene sometimes, but accuracy in the spout reports is still the expectation of the job. Will you be able to do that?”

      Honestly, the description sounds like she might not be a fit for the new expectations of the job, so be prepared for the possibility that you might want to discuss a transition out with her pretty soon.

    2. YesYesYes*

      Did you have the expectation-setting conversation with her yet? I’ve been in a similar situation before, and it turns out what I was interpreting as excessive handholding + resistance to feedback was a result of my role missing in the past – they were reporting to someone who didn’t have the proper level of detail to actually manage them. The team had developed some interesting mental gymnastics to get the oversight and protection they needed while still functioning day-to-day.

      Basically, they had to get used to a manager/ leader who actually had the time and knowledge to check in and have a daily or weekly impact on their work. You might approach it from that angle and see if it resolves some of the problems.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      Are you setting specific, measurable, actionable goals and expectations? Or just pointing out mistakes?

  139. Nisie*

    My husband has been offered a great package to relocate and we are moving next month- over 1,000 miles away from our support system. We have a toddler with asthma and I have doubts about what this move means to her system. I’m debating putting a hold on my career and substituting at my oldest’s school for a few months until we know what’s up. One flare can mean the youngest would have to stay home for a couple of days, and she can flare several times in the colder weather.
    How would that look to an employer? To step away from my career field until I can find a good match inside it? Or at least until my husband gets comfortable in his new position and can start staying home more with her?

    1. Rincat*

      I’ve done a little bit of a hiring though I’m not a manager, but I think it’s pretty common to have that kind of a break in your career right after a big move, and also adding in taking care of your child is perfectly reasonable. It would not look bad to me. The fact that you plan on doing some kind of work in the meantime will look better to an employer, but honestly I think those are pretty good reasons for a break!

  140. Ern*

    Mostly here to vent. On Tuesday, I had final round interviews for a job. They told me it’d take til the end of the week, then they reached out on Wednesday for references. I’ve heard from a reference that they did schedule calls with them. I also received a call from the head of HR saying that I really impressed them and that I’m the person they want to move forward with but, bc of internal guidelines for titles, they’d need to adjust the job title. I said that was okay (I am lacking in years of experience). Now I’m just waiting. Not sure what’s next, if there will be anything else, obviously I don’t have an offer so it could not come together for some reason and I’m a ball of stress. I have two other interviews next week-one a first round, and then a different second round, but this job in a small industry that I’d be thrilled to work in. They’ve moved fairly quickly but I’d really love to know what’s happening on their end and how much longer until I’ll know for sure if I’m getting an offer. Aghhh

  141. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

    Can someone explain to me how they “manage ambiguity”?

    I keep getting this as feedback because apparently I get anxious when I dont have visibility of what the plan is. I do fine when I am the one running the show and take off like a rocket, but this is rare because of the anxiety it appears like I cant handle more advanced work. So I keep getting boxed in to the same type of work and become more frustrated, more anxious, until I quit.

    How can I break this cycle? I dont know how to “just roll with it”. I do project based work and usually the plan does change and when I dont agree with it and make my concerns known,and the reasoning, they are usually ignored or dismissed away so I clam up. Is this an anxiety thing where some therapy could help?

    1. fposte*

      It’s certainly worth a try, especially if you have an EAP. It sounds like it’s might not just be ambiguity but discomfort when you’re not in control, since it sounds like you react strongly when your suggestions aren’t acted on and are in your comfort zone when you’re the one pulling the levers. This might also be related to risk and failure tolerance–the bigger you go, the more things you’ll have that fail, and that’s a key part of the process, not a sign that it’s not going the way it ought.

      In the mean time it might be worth talking yourself through what you’re afraid of, what that would look like, and how survivable it is; it’s also worth asking yourself if your anxiety makes that outcome any less likely and to try to envision yourself weathering the feared outcome with mild, calm disappointment and a shrug instead.

    2. Michael Carmichael*

      I used to have this same issue and I think a lot of getting comfortable with ambiguity in tasks is letting go of the fear of failing, or if that’s not possible, realizing that failing is a really great way to learn things, and also trying to maintain perspective. Neither of these are easy but I think just being conscious of your anxiety and consciously trying to change your ways of thinking really are a great start and do help.

      I used to get very nervous and avoidant of projects I wasn’t 100% sure how to go about doing, but finally figured out that doing *something* is always better than doing nothing. If you do something, you will learn new things and possibly even being the person who realizes that you’re going in the wrong direction. If you fail or are criticized for your efforts (which feels very unfair if you’ve been given no or unclear direction), you learn from that also.

      That’s where perspective comes in – trying to *really* make yourself understand, not in a purely intellectual way, that most likely whatever you are obsessing about completely does not matter, and you won’t remember it in a month or a year, much less further out.

      I’m not sure if this is helpful because I also kind of think just plain getting older helps with dealing with ambiguity also.

  142. AKG*

    What lengths should you go to in order to send a thank you note? I had a phone interview earlier this week that went really well. I researched a few topics that arose through our conversation and wanted to mention them in a thank you note. However, I realized the email the interviewer used to contact me was from their application software and didn’t even look like a legit email address I could reply to. A search of their website included other people’s emails but not the person I was speaking to. I debated taking the format of the emails listed on their website and guessing at the interviewer’s email but thought that might be seen as creepy. In the end, I replied to the weird application email and it ended up going through. But what lengths should you go to in order to send a thank you to someone when they haven’t provided their direct email address?

    1. NJ Anon*

      I just had the exact same situation. I just replied to the email she sent me to set up the interview. She’s a board member too so unlikely to have a work email at the org I was interiewing for.

  143. Odyssea*

    Long story short, I have been doing my boss’s job on an interim basis since the beginning of the year. While I’ve made some changes, I haven’t gone too overboard because I was not sure whether they would be coming back. They are not, and while my status is still a bit in the air (waiting to see if I have to apply and interview, or if there will be a direct appointment), I do want to start making some changes.

    To that point, I want to sit down with the employees in our department and get their feedback on how things have been going, and what ideas or interests they have for the future. My three direct reports are students, and I want to help them get a head start on their future careers by giving them the opportunity to build skills in their areas of interest.

    I am looking for any questions or experiences that you have had that will help me develop questions to encourage honest feedback and responses. Your help is greatly appreciated!

  144. Epsilon Delta*

    I have been working on a big complicated project with a coworker for months. We are nearing the end of the project, finally, and it’s been fairly stressful. This week she gave me a handwritten note thanking me for all my assistance and outlining a couple things she really appreciated. It was so thoughtful and made me happy all day!

  145. Coalea*

    I’ve been working in the chocolate teapot department of my company for about 4 years. Because orders for chocolate teapots have slowed down recently, my boss’s boss has decided that I need to dedicate part of my time to the rice sculpture department. I explained to my boss, who was supposed to explain to his boss, that some of my teapot projects are still ongoing, and I have a weekly standing teapot order that I have to fill. Apparently, this was not communicated, and earlier this week I got an email assigning me an urgent rice sculpture project. When I pushed back (not only did I not have the time, I also have not been trained in rice sculptures yet!), by boss’s boss got all bent out of shape and is mad at me. On top of that, I don’t really want to be working on rice sculptures. I originally transitioned to chocolate teapots because I was struggling in a past job making rice murals. I want to stick with teapots (maybe moving beyond chocolate and working with vanilla or strawberry) and avoid grain-based art completely!

  146. NonnyNon*

    I just realized I screwed up a project big time. Basically we got data for the wrong area and it’s going to be completely useless. This was my first time leading a project this big and I misread some of the documents which led to this mix-up, so it’s entirely my fault that this happened. No one else knows yet and when my boss finds out he’s going to lose it and probably yell at me. I don’t know what to do now.

    1. Mr. Demeanor*

      Yes, it’s awful to make a mistake and it’s awful when bosses get angry and yell, but take a deep breath tell your boss ASAP briefly explaining where you made your mistake, take responsibility, and apologize. Your worrying about what is going happen is just adding stress to the situation.

      1. Mr. Demeanor*

        Plus saying “Here’s what I’m currently doing, or will do, to fix the errors” can help as well.

        1. Anon Anon*

          I think it’s imperative to go in with a plan about how you will fix the issue when you tell your boss. I find that things go much better when I can make sure that my boss finds out about my screw ups from me, and then I have a plan to present to fix the issue. Then it becomes a case of discussing what led to the issue so that my boss is clear that it won’t happen again.

          1. Mazzy*

            I agree. Make it clear you’re in control of it. Don’t view it as “the project was screwed up” view it as “the project is still ongoing and hit a bump but I’m moving past it.”

  147. Dachelle*

    Long-time lurker here – I’m not even sure if I have a question, to be honest, just looking for some support. Two weeks ago I was asked to resign from the job I’ve had for over 12 years. There were no discussions about performance issues prior to this decision, and in fact all my prior performance reviews had been good, although my supervisor did not make any comments on my review last year beyond the numerical ranking. I work in a very specialized field of higher education. The rumor mill (and my own guess before this was relayed to me) has told me that my dismissal resulted from a faculty member wanting me out after I gave advice to a student the faculty member didn’t like. Again, the faculty member never addressed this with me directly and after giving my supervisor my notes of my meetings with the student I received no follow-up about the incident.

    Last week, my mother, who is battling a cancer recurrence, went to the hospital with septic shock. She’s since had two surgeries, coded on the table once, and is now suffering from ICU delirium. I’m single, an only child, and my father is deceased. I keep feeling so betrayed by my workplace, because they knew I was going through a hard time with my mom, and yet they let me go after over a decade of service just because someone who hasn’t even been there a year wanted me out. Because my field is so specialized, I’m not going to be able to find a job in this area, but I can’t leave my mom. I really don’t know what to do. I already have depression and anxiety and suicidal ideation, and this has cranked it up to 11. I feel like my life is over.

    1. Mr. Demeanor*

      I’m so sorry for everything that you are going though. It’s a lot at one time – but I’m big with “HERE AND NOW” meaning determining what is the most urgent and important thing to address and focusing on that. Decide what do you need to do to get through the day and just do that. Then tomorrow, worry about what needs to be done tomorrow.

      There are no quick or easy fixes for this and I don’t want to inundate you, especially since you didn’t come here specifically for advice, but here’s what I’d suggest to consider:

      Contact your therapist and/or psychiatrist immediately – explain what is going on and don’t hold back in regards to your mental state at the moment.

      Did you resign as asked or are you planning on disputing it? Did you negotiate severance? I’d seek legal counsel to advise if you potentially have a case or at least help negotiate your exit.

      Explain to your friends that you are having some difficulties and need their help and outline what they can do (it may just be dropping by to talk, helping you network, going to a movie). Many hospitals have support services for caregivers as well.

      Seek and ask for help – and if you aren’t getting it – ask again – louder.

      You are not alone in this and the dark times do pass, but having a support system in place is key. I wish you well.

      1. pahcad*

        As a wise woman told me when I was dealing with my husband’s cancer (he’s fine), you can only take one bite of the elephant as a time. Mr. Demeanor has good suggestions. Use all the resources you have and ask for help to deal with the stress of your situation. You will get through this and to the other side where the light is shining. My thoughts are with you.

      2. Anon Accountant*

        +1000000 to all of this.

        If your insurance won’t cover a counselor, check with a mental health association or hospital social worker for guidance to free or low cost counseling and help.

    2. SparklingStars*

      I’m so sorry that you are going through this. I hope that you will be able to find help. Your life is not over, not by a long shot.

    3. Crylo Ren*

      I’m so so sorry that you’re going through this, this is so much to take on all at once.
      As others have said, please reach out to someone – a medical professional and/or your friends. And please take care of yourself as much as you can. Wishing you well.

    4. Mazzy*

      Wow I feel bad. I hope you didn’t actually resign though just because they asked. Also I’m surprised that that would be a reason to get rid of someone especially after that tenure. I thought it was extremely hard to lose a job in education. Can’t you decline to quit and let it be? I know that doesn’t solve the pain, or all of it, I’m going through stuff at work too, but after a longish unemployment, I know a set schedule and income are better than having neither.

    5. Teapot Librarian*

      Dachelle, I am so sorry you have to deal with any of this, especially all at once. I have no advice, just lots of good wishes for you and your mom. Do you have friends in the area who can provide support to you and your mom, even little(-ish) things like someone to sit with your mom in the hospital while you go and walk around a park or go home and do laundry, or someone to bring you dinner?

  148. KM*

    I keep feeling like I am going to get fired over every mistake I make. Today, I posted an image (not a lewd one!) I shouldn’t have posted on a newsletter and the owner of that image got mad because it was promoting one of our events instead of hers. I am concerned about how my boss will react when she hears. Every time I make even a small mistake I keep feeling like its just adding to some list of things I messed up on that I’ll get to hear about when I am fired.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      That sounds like it stinks. Can you have a conversation/check-in with your boss to try and get a sense of how things are going in general?

    2. Teapot Librarian*

      I’m so sorry. That dynamic sucks, and it’s tough once you get stuck in it. It’s like a spiral because once you get nervous about being fired if you make a mistake, you’re more likely to make more mistakes. My boss called me the other day (we work in different locations) and told me that she didn’t think I was taking seriously enough this Very Important thing we were doing this morning and that she wasn’t sure I understood that there was NO ROOM FOR ERROR. Well, actually, I did know that there was no room for error, but once she snapped it at me, I got even more nervous about it. (Thankfully it ended up going okay, but I’m definitely in that spiral with my boss.)

  149. Shark Whisperer*

    I am a fairly new manager (about a year and a half), but I have been in my industry for 7 years. I have a situation with one of my staff members that I am not sure how to address. I am going to explain it in teapot terms to not give away my industry, so I apologize if I over do it and it no longer makes sense.

    My staff are all part-time entry level. There are about 25 of them, a lot re still in college or fresh out of college and are trying to gain experience on our field, which can be very difficult to break into. One of my staff, Jane, is older and going back to school currently to become a coffee pot maker. She is working with us in teapot making to gain experience in beverage pot making in general. She is actually a naturally talented beverage pot maker, but very much lacks confidence in her knowledge of tea. She is not the problem. The problem is Lucinda. Lucinda believes herself to be a tea expert (she is not). Lately she has taken to “correcting” Jane’s tea knowledge and trying to get her to change the way she makes tea pots, even though it is the feeling myself and my manager that Jane’s teapots are excellent and Lucinda’s corrections are often the opposite of what we want her to do. (Also, Lucinda’s teapots are acceptable but not exemplary, I don’t know if that makes a difference, but it might color my view of the situation). I need Lucinda to stop correcting Jane because it’s inhibiting Jane’s ability to do her work, but I don’t know how to go about it.

    I have spoken to Lucinda in the moment (i.e. when Jane asks for clarification because Lucinda told her that tea tastes better if it doesn’t go through a spout so she should take all the spouts off her teapots, I immediately talk to Lucinda. When I talk to her, I ask her why she believe teapots shouldn’t have spouts and then let her know that it is our policy to always put spouts on our teapots, and shouldn’t be telling anyone otherwise). The problem is although she understands why she was wrong on a particular incidence, she doesn’t get the larger picture that she needs to stop correcting Jane.

    I understand I need to talk to her about the overall pattern, but I am not sure how to frame it. My manager thinks I should talk to her about spreading false information, but I don’t really think that will be effective. I think Lucinda honestly thinks her information is the truest information even if is against policy or unhelpful. I am also worried that if I saw something along the lines of “stop correcting Jane,” Lucinda might confront Jane about it and Jane will feel thrown under the bus.

    So, help, please.

    1. fposte*

      “Lucinda, I’ve had to talk to you a couple of times now, and I’m concerned that the message doesn’t seem to be getting through. You are not to correct other staffers’ work again. If I have a problem with the work of anybody on the team, I’ll deal with it; in the mean time, I expect you to focus on your own work and not direct your colleagues to change theirs. Do you think you’ll be able to do that?”

      Then stay more present and attuned in case there’s any blowback for Jane; if there is, that’s a *really* bad sign, because your employee should be able to take feedback without blaming other people.

    2. LCL*

      Have a meeting with both of them. You, Lucinda, and Jane. Tell them ‘my role here is supervisor, I give work assignments, directions and corrections. Lucinda and Jane, your role here is to make teapots. (Insert something good here about each person’s job performance.) If either of you have a production question, come to me. Don’t take instruction from each other, it’s not either of your job duties to supervise.’

      In my opinion you and Jane are being way too nice to Lucinda. You need to tell them both what is going on won’t be tolerated any more. Maybe that will empower Jane to push back. And you aren’t being direct enough. Lucinda doesn’t ‘get the larger picture that she needs to stop correcting Jane’ because you haven’t actually told her. And for the love of God, if you are giving a subordinate a direct instruction, DON’T PHRASE IT AS A NEED. Part of being a supervisor is giving orders. Part of being a good supervisor is being willing to listen to pushback. because the people doing the work may know something important about the process that you don’t.

      End your meeting by telling them both they can always raise objections to you, and you will do your best to explain the process to them, but you are still making the final decisions.

      1. Shark Whisperer*

        Thank you, you are right, I haven’t been direct enough. Giving orders is something I am still working on. But that is why I read this blog and ask question, so I can get better. I very much appreciate you taking the time to help me.

      2. LadyKelvin*

        I wouldn’t drag Jane into this. She is going to feel like she is being reprimanded for something that she didn’t do. Talk to Lucinda, tell Jane that she doesn’t need to do what Lucinda tells her and that if she has questions come talk to you.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          +1. This is about Lucinda’s conduct and performance, which is between you and her, and also bringing Jane may make Lucinda feel ganged up on.

  150. D.A.R.N.*

    I think I might be too late to be seen on this thread, but if anyone’s willing to help me figure out if this is a screwy situation or not, I’d be much obliged.

    I’m a temp worker, now having worked at this place for 9 months as a temp-to-perm. Apparently, it’s normal to wait for a year to be hired perm here? In the meantime, I get about 300 dollars a week after taxes, so I’m just fine waiting /sarcasm

    I do reception work and a whole bunch of other things as needed. I’ve covered for shipping and receiving, been the go-fer, everything.

    I think I’d be fine with the whole lack of money if it wasn’t for the fact that my supervisor has been having problems at home lately. Which she’s bringing to work. By treating me like an idiot. Which I’m also just fine with. (<- a lie)

    This past week I've been really stressed out and getting upset over these instances more than usual, and crying at work and trying not to. The thing is, she's the Office Manager/HR person/etc, so there's nobody to go to about this. I asked one of my coworkers, a teapot project manager, about one instance, where she said she thought I was making mistakes doing UPS shipments on purpose because I didn't want to do them, which offended me because I would never do anything less than my best and I thought that my work until then had shown that. But it seems like she only had praise for me when I first started, and only to my temp agency which I overheard. And I asked this coworker if I was doing something wrong, to which she said no.

    Later on, I was asking something of my supervisor, I forget what, but she was being testy and upset, and she called out after me to "stop talking behind her back". Which I now think is because she talks about everyone else, so she assumed I was smack-talking her as well, when I was only trying to figure out what was going on.

    Since then, she hasn't stopped being upset with me over simple things. Now she's decided that I cannot be a single minute late from lunch. I have spent so many lunches at my desk for her, or taking half lunches, because it was needed. But now we have a new temp in project management, who'll be covering my lunches. Last time there was a temp doing this, she accused me of slacking off because I had assumed someone else would do it… which I don't recall. She was projecting onto me again and I think now that this new temp is here, she's assuming the same thing. She hasn't actually TOLD me not to be a minute late from lunch, she just happens to shoo off my coverage so she can sit in my seat and be passive aggressive to me about how I'm keeping the other temp from her lunch. (The other temp who takes lunch at 1:30 while I come back at 1:05 – 1:10 at the latest)

    I feel like she's specifically trying to undermine me, but I have no idea what to do about it. I don't have anyone over her to talk to other than the owners of the business, and she's made very clear implied comments about how I should never talk to them except for saying hello.

    Advice?

    1. fposte*

      If you’re hanging on in hopes of being made permanent, stop hanging and start your job search ASAP. Nothing you describe is a good place to work.

      In the mean time you could try to bring it up directly with your manager. “I think I’ve been out of step with you lately; can we talk about ways to make sure I stay on track better?”

      But really, I think you need to work elsewhere. Sorry.

      1. D.A.R.N.*

        I’m not sure how to bring it up without her getting defensive or not taking me seriously (or without crying), do you have any other scripts for after bringing it up?

        So hypothetically, if I leave, and start looking outside of the temp agency, do you think I could list this position? My resume is pretty sparse, sadly. I’m kind of young and disabled. :T

        1. fposte*

          I can’t make sure nobody will cry, but in general it’s better for you both professionally and emotionally to be active rather than passive in a situation like this. She may just answer “No, no, there’s nothing I can guide you on, you just need to pay more attention” or something; you’ve still gone on record as being interested in improving things, and that has a reasonable chance of benefiting you. “I can certainly try, and if do you think of anything that would help me improve my performance I hope you’ll tell me.”

          If you mean include this job on your resume, yes, of course it goes on your resume! You’ve been doing it for nearly a year now. It’s perfectly legit also to say to prospective employers “It was a temp to perm position and the transfer to permanent got shelved, so I’m looking for more stability.” Have you ever asked the current job about the transition to permanent, by the way? I think another job would be vastly preferable, but it’s perfectly fine and even recommended to say “I wanted to check in with you on the transition to permanent status. Is that still in the cards for this position, and what kind of time frame are we talking about?”

        2. Ann*

          There are so many places in AAM that Alison discusses what to say and how to bring up the question of your performance.
          Also, your boss is not going to change. If she wants you back from lunch exactly on time, no matter how many times you stayed at your desk for her, then that is what she wants and even though it is not fair, your boss can require that. Which is why everyone is saying to look for a different job.
          I wish you the best!

  151. Jennifer's Thneed Needs a Job*

    Because I’m receiving unemployment payments, I’ve been required to attend a couple of job-search-info training sessions. The first was very general and somewhat helpful, and today’s was specifically about working with Labor Market Information websites. (I found this REALLY interesting and informative and I’ll share some specifics later, probly in a reply to this message.)

    But here’s the thing. Both presenters shared this same idea that alarmed me: if a job posting does not specifically say “Electronic Submissions Only” then it’s worth the effort of sending a paper resume & cover letter, by hand, in the regular mail. You know, the snail kind. With stamps.

    I’m horrified at this! The first person said it’s because a human being will look at stuff and apply human thought to possibly-missing-keywords or whatever. I’m willing to believe that this COULD happen. I’m especially willing to believe this could happen in a small business, like a dentist’s office. But I have a hard time believing this could work in any kind of corporate entity that has a proper HR department. Am I out of touch? Are they? (For the record, I’m in the SF Bay Area, and the class instructors are in my same metro area.) I know that they’re dealing with a really wide range of types of employment.

    Today’s person was even worse: he said to send the puppy by mail and then follow up with a phone call! You know, just to check. I didn’t say anything because it would have derailed the class and we only had 50 minutes, and after the class he was busy with someone. I really want to direct him to resources here so he’ll never say that stuff again! …but should I?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I think it’s far more likely that your resume will not be looked at if you send it by mail. You’ll look hopelessly out of touch with modern conventions, especially if they provide a link to a website.

    2. Fabulous*

      I don’t understand those who think this is still OK! With snail mail there’s no guarantee a resume will even make it to the right person. Especially if the mail handler isn’t getting a lot of resumes in the mail, they might send it to HR instead of the hiring manager, where it could sit on someone’s desk for who knows how long – or worse – get thrown away because, duh. If you have the presenter’s contact info, it might be worth reaching out…

    3. Amy Cakes*

      The advice I received during mandated unemployment job counseling was likewise out-of-touch and ridiculous. I’m a writer, with a resume full of freelance and short-term contract assignments, and the woman assigned to coach me spent a half hour lecturing me about being a job hopper and telling me I needed to stick with one company for more than six months. She was completely unable to understand the concept of gig work, possibly because she was older than dust.

  152. SirTechSpec*

    I recently finished a huge project at work that was really kicking my ass and impacting my health. It’s been about 2 months and my stress level is slowly improving, but I still find myself reacting negatively to things I used to react pretty positively to (new assignments, unusual questions, people asking for my expertise – aka most of my job) because I got so into the habit of trying to deflect everything while focusing on the project.

    Any strategies for re-learning to love your job after it changes to something you don’t like, then changes back?

    1. Mr. Demeanor*

      A few years back I covered for a co-worker on maternity and I HATED what she did (it’s very valuable to the Department though). I had decided that if she did not return and they were going to make it a permanent part of my position I would resign (even without a job in place) – thankfully she did come back to work and we are both still here. It took me about six months to really get rid of all the residual stress. You do have to continually remind yourself that you don’t do ‘x’ any more and that you like what you do. Finding ways to reward and de-stress yourself for a job well done can help too. Happy Friday.

    1. Caledonia*

      Leave yourself, move departments or resign yourself to never moving up til something happens to your boss.

      Sometimes there are no good options, only less crappy ones.

    2. Anon Anon*

      How long have you been in your current role? Does your organization provide promotions by creating a new position versus having someone leave? Is your organization large enough that you would have an opportunity to advance within another department?

      If the answer is no to the second two questions and you’ve been in your current role for more than 4-5 years, then I think leaving is the only option.

  154. Lo*

    Thank you to everyone who commented about the not changing my name after getting married weirdness. I’m sorry I didn’t respond to the thread. It feels good to have a clear script when it happens again, and that I’m not the only one who has dealt with the weirdness. This site has been so helpful/amazing.

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Hi-five! I didn’t change my name and neither have a number of my friends. I suppose some of my current coworkers might think my spouse’s name is Mr. Moose, but that’s on them.

  155. lapgiraffe*

    Hello AAM community, I’m hoping for a little feedback on something that happened this morning. I work in sales in a partnership between a local distributor and a national supplier, a sort of hyper focused salesforce that works alongside the regular salesforce in “key accounts” but only focused on a portion of the local distributors entire portfolio of offerings. It’s been a sales division for just over ten years and has had it ups and down, me in it for 2.5 years. The major down is that because we get the commission if one of “our” products sells, the “main pad” salesforce resents us, doesn’t work with us, and – from the top down – actively works to sabotage us.

    Our national supplier does this setup in major cities across the country and has realized this doesn’t work well, so they’ve slowly but surely transitioned each team to be an “overlay” supplier that works with the main pad team but they get commission, and we’d get paid on a different salary bonus structure. Our region was the last to be transitioned and, along with a new manager for our team announced in Feb but just came into effect due to maternity leave, we’ve been aware of upcoming changes but nothing formal ever communicated.

    Yesterday we get an email that our team is to attend an 8am meeting on Friday morning, mandatory, and this is also odd and short notice because as outside sales we all live between 40 and 120 minutes away in our own territories. Our national supplier VP (also new to role from a reorg but not new to company), new manager, local distributor VP, and HR all come in and tell us that, yes, the changes that have happened in other regions are happening here BUT we will need to reapply and interview for a position. There will also be 1 less position than we currently have, they’re opening the position to the main pad salesforce, and then posting externally. In other states where they’ve done this reorg this has not been the case – they have changed the job descriptions and pay structure but no one has been laid off.

    Important points: 1) they used the word “dissolve” to describe what is happening to our current division 2) we are “strongly encouraged” to apply for a position, followed by a strongly deliver BUT 3) they would be offering a negotiable severance package for those who don’t wish to reapply and 4) they would not contest unemployment filings. The new manager, who we all know from another role within the company and have worked with extensively, did not look at us or address us, so it had this horrible bad vibe through it all.

    My question to all of you: 1) does this sound like a situation where they actually want any of us on board for the 2.0 version of this division 2) does it sounds like anyone even has a chance? 3) should we take the money and run? 4) general thoughts.

    We’re a small group – 7 of us until a few months ago with one colleague got an ALS diagnosis and had to understandably leave – and perform well compared to our national counterparts so as salespeople with good numbers we’re a bit baffled from a performance standpoint. I personally love the national company, don’t love as much the local distributor, and was very excited about these changes that have happened elsewhere. The half layoff is throwing me for a loop on a job I otherwise really enjoy.

    1. CAA*

      Yes, it sounds like they want to keep at least some of you. This may be a situation where they have to make everyone the same offer of severance — maybe the person they really don’t want to keep is in a protected group and they don’t want to do a straight layoff because of how it will look so they’re hoping he/she doesn’t apply; or maybe they have had past problems with the EEOC and are under a consent decree that requires this type of offer; etc. If they’re reducing headcount and granting severance then they really have no grounds to contest unemployment claims, so that part is not a concern.

      If you apply and don’t get chosen, can you still get the severance package? If yes, then apply.

  156. Cercis*

    I just won an RFP award for a program I launched while working at my old nonprofit (that I left due to conflict with my boss). I’m really excited. It’s not a lot of money, but it’s something that I really enjoy doing and that I can do really well.

    It is, of course, extra sweet to have won it over the nonprofit since I’m still pretty bitter about how that job ended and how old boss has continued to treat me since (and yes, I’m in therapy to deal with that bitterness).

    But it’s bittersweet because one of my friends has since joined the nonprofit board and he’s upset with me for having taken it away from the nonprofit (stating that it’s going to make it harder for them to deliver some of their other programs – which really isn’t true, but old boss is a master manipulator and that’s the message being disseminated).

  157. Lynne879*

    I currently work 2 part-time jobs- one during the week and one on the weekends. I’m job searching to replace my weekend job.

    On my resume I list 3 jobs in the “Work Experience” category and I’m still employed at 2 out of 3 of them.

    Am I hurting my chances by listing I have 2 jobs? Should I keep both of them on my resume but clarify in my cover letter that I only want to replace my weekend job? Or does it really matter to employers if a job applicant is currently working two jobs?

    1. Fabulous*

      I think a cover letter is the perfect place for this explanation of wanting to replace one job out of the three. If there isn’t an option to attach a cover letter on the application system you’re using, it might be work it to (don’t shoot me Alison!) add an objective or summary at the top of your resume with a short explanation.

    2. Teapot Librarian*

      I reviewed someone’s resume a few months ago and was initially confused by the two “to present” jobs but in reality I don’t think it’s surprising for someone to be working more than one job. I think mentioning it in your cover letter is a good idea, especially if you can tie working two jobs into a skill related to the job you’re applying for. Maybe it’s something about time management, or flexibility, or prioritizing, or something else entirely, like the two jobs are in different fields but you like components of each, which is the perfect combination for this job. Good luck!

  158. Can't Sit Still*

    Does anyone else have a shadow career? That is, a career that recruiters think you have, completely unrelated to your actual career? I have over the years, in recruiting emails, gone from staff accountant to CFO of a mid-sized company. I find this hilarious, since I am not a CPA and barely managed to pass the one accounting class required for my BS. Yet somehow, I continue to get regular promotions and raises in my alternate reality career that exists solely in the minds? computers? of recruiters. It’s not the same agency, either, so there’s some hive mind out there or something. I’ve checked and I do not have a career doppelganger with a similar name.

    Please tell me I’m not the only one this has happened to! Or share the wildly off-base jobs you’ve received from recruiters.

    1. Fabulous*

      I’ve worked administratively for 10+ years, but just because I had a job in a collections department in 2009 I would get calls to be a collection agent for YEARS afterward. Also, sales. They’ve been trying to recruit me to be an insurance salesperson since 2011 because I worked as an assistant in a life insurance office. Whenever I re-post my resume, the calls start coming for me to “start my own business with sales,” etc. NOPE!

    2. Rincat*

      I did several years as a learning management system administrator, so I keep getting recruiters that think I’m a teacher, or an education administrator of some kind. It was getting so bad on LinkedIn that I turned off those stupid endorsements – because the bulk of my endorsements were from my coworkers in distance education, so it was all “learning” and “teaching” and “training” and stuff. I am actually in database administration and have never done anything related to teaching, aside from occasional tech trainings!

      The most off-base job I got – I set up a profile for some healthcare system in my area, and when you set up a profile, you get an email from a chipper looking woman named “Mary” who sends you “personalized” job listings based on your preferences. Each email begins with “I’ve selected this job especially for you!” So far Mary has sent me: receptionist; registered nurse; communications specialist; the list goes on. I’m not sure I’ve actually gotten anything from “Mary” that’s actually related to databases.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I used to do administrative work for a nursing program. This somehow leads recruiters to believe I’m a nurse. I’ve gotten some very lucrative offers to move to Alaska.

    4. fposte*

      No, but I have a shadow office in a neighboring state due to acronym confusion. People ask me about their initiatives all the time, and I’m sure vice versa.

    5. animaniactoo*

      Not with recruiters… but there is an increasing level of mail that I get that from outside vendors seeking a foot in my company’s door which seems to believe that I:

      a) Make marketing decisions/work primarily as a marketing person
      b) Make IT decisions/work in project management
      c) Am a manager of people and need to learn how to be more influential

      I have a vague toe in the water in several of those areas… but I mean, it’s barely a toenail’s worth.

    6. Teapot Librarian*

      I did have a boss google me (she was new in the job, I was not) and think that I was both a cookbook author and famous in the world of finance. Um, nope.

    7. Jennifer's Thneed Has a Shadow Job*

      Yeah, I know, it’s after the weekend already, so sue me.

      Because I worked *as a technical trainer* for a mortgage company, of course I want to sell mortgage loans – or work as a loan processor! Obvs! And because I worked in a bank (in the back office, with programmers), I’m totally qualified to do financial analysis or personal wealth management. And no matter what I’ve ever done, I MUST be looking to open an insurance office with FIG (Farmers Insurance Group). (Those last ones I have stopped replying to politely. Sometime I don’t bother replying at all, sometimes I tell them to stop insulting me.)

      But no, I haven’t seen any sort of career progression. I’m feeling kind of cheated!

  159. MegaMoose, Esq.*

    I took my mom grocery shopping after work earlier in the week and she asked how my (never-ending) job search was going. Then she said not to worry, and that I’ll find a job when I decide to really put my mind to it.

    That is all. /cry

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’m sorry :(

      People can be so insensitive without even realizing it.

      1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

        Sigh, thanks (you too, Emi). My mom would never be intentionally unkind (and honestly isn’t usually intentionally undermining or passive aggressive or anything), but that one hurt going down and has been festering ever since.

    3. Teapot Librarian*

      Eff her. When I was unemployed (and doing poorly, with respect to my mental health), my mom made a comment when she saw me: “You’ve been watching a lot of tv and eating potato chips, haven’t you?” Mothers.

  160. Wonderfully Confused*

    I am kinda late to the party, but I actually have a question this week. An acquaintance of mine has approached me about forming an LLC but I have no interest whatsoever in this. I am young, as in just over a year out of college, and I am just figuring out the balance between my personal life and my professional life; I am not interested in complicating that with trying to navigate an LLC. How do I tell them no without hurting their feelings and our working relationship?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Short and sweet: “Thanks for thinking of me, but I don’t have time right now. Good luck!”

    2. Fabulous*

      I think being young in this situation will actually make it easier to bow out:
      “I don’t feel as if I have a strong enough grip on my professional experience – or business law – to be able to effective assist in forming a new startup business. Best of luck with the LLC though!”

      1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

        I’d be concerned that a response like this would invite push-back, though, like “don’t sell yourself short, you’re smart and you’ll totally figure it out and I could never manage without you, please?!” That’s why I like “I don’t have time”: it’s harder to disprove as it’s largely subjective.

        1. Fabulous*

          You could always just counter with the fact that you want to get more experience under your belt first in the corporate world (or whatever field you’re in) – it’s the truth!

          1. Naruto*

            Yeah, “I want more experience before doing something like that” is also hard to push back on. And ultimately, you can be polite but still not allow them to push back much — you have the ability to shut it down.

    3. LCL*

      Think about these questions, don’t answer them just meditate about them for awhile. How does telling them no hurt their feelings? Are you obligated to answer whatever people want to hear so that you don’t hurt their feelings? If so, why? And if their feelings get hurt because you didn’t answer the way they wanted, why is that your problem? Do you believe there is some magic spell aka script in modern speak that if only you phrased things perfectly in conversation all sides would be happy? Because I am guilty of that one, I default to ‘if only I explained things clearly enough people would see things my way and agree with me.’

      Just be polite. Thanks but no is all you need to say.

  161. KitKat*

    Hi, I work in a very small office and because of that I am not covered by FMLA. I’m expecting in Oct, I only have 2 weeks of paid vacation, and three sick days. I like my job and on most issues with family my boss has been great. I can bring my kid to work occasionally when needed, I can work from home occasionally-like school snow days. I can schedule appointments during the day, for anything less than 3 hours we do not have to count towards our PTO but I’m now having an issue with maternity leave. I haven’t had my meeting with my boss yet to discuss this, it’s next week, but when one of my coworkers asked if she should learn some of my tasks to cover for me when I’m on maternity leave he told her “no need because she will only be gone 2 weeks.” He let her know that I will be working home for a couple of months.
    Our employee handbook has nothing about maternity leave accept the FMLA information that doesn’t apply. I’m not worried about taking unpaid time. I was hoping to take 6 weeks (like I did with my other child-I was at a different job), but now I’m worried he is not going to be open to me taking a month of unpaid leave. I am the first woman who has ever worked for him that got pregnant on the job so it’s something he has never dealt with, and his wife was a SAHM and his kids are all older now so I don’t think he understands what kind of toll having a baby takes. He joked in our last staff meeting that I could take my laptop to the hospital when I have the baby if I want.
    I’m nervous about my meeting with him next week. Any advice on what to say?

    1. Rincat*

      I think you should use your doctor’s authority for this one. Approach it like “of course I’ll be on 6 weeks of leave because that’s how long my doctor says I need to recover (at least), so how can we work this out?” Approach it like the reasonable, appropriate thing to do is give you 6 weeks of leave. I think it will be okay – I totally understand the anxiety! – but just be matter of fact, and demonstrate that you will have plans for things (including training coworkers).

      1. Friday*

        +1. And it’s usually 8 weeks for a Csection. Are you covered by short term disability?

  162. ThursdaysGeek*

    It’s probably getting too late for a reply, but…

    As I’m sure you all know (for those in the US), there is going to be a total solar eclipse in August that transverse the country. I wasn’t making appropriate plans a year ago, so I don’t have a camping site or motel room within the area of totality. We’re kind of thinking of driving south and hoping the roads aren’t so crowded that we get stuck before we get within the area of totality. I have a co-worker in the next state over that has a cabin, and he plans on being there for it, with friends and family. He’s a generous and nice person and we work well together.

    Is there a way to ask if we (my spouse and I) can camp on his property, join them? I don’t want to put him in a position where he is pressured to say yes, because, of course, he’s a co-worker and we need to work together. I want him to easily be able to say no. I don’t think it will make things weird or awkward – but want to ensure that it does not.

    1. Imaginary Number*

      Eek. That’s tricky. Even if you asked in such a way that you emphasized “It’s 100% okay if you say no I promise” it puts him in an awkward position (thinking back to the letter a while back whose coworker was inviting herself on vacation.) And even though you said “As I’m sure you all know” the reality is that most people probably don’t know and this is a very specific camping plan. It could seem like you’re only saying you want to go camping for the solar eclipse because your coworker is doing it (even though you’ve been thinking about it before you heard he had a cabin.)

      If you’re not already close friends I wouldn’t ask about it. Maybe bring it up in a conversation that you’re looking for a place, if there’s a good segue into the topic.

    2. fposte*

      Hi, Thursday! Sounds like a cool expedition. Has anybody done anything like that on his property before, do you know? And how long are you talking about staying–just for the night or for more time surrounding it?

      It does raise my “don’t invite yourself to somebody else’s party” alert, but I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand, given the seemingly shared interest. It sounds like you’ve talked about the eclipse–have you mentioned that you and your husband are hoping to travel down to see it? If you have and he hasn’t offered, then I don’t think I’d ask. If you haven’t, what I might do is raise your travel plan and ask for guidance for campsites that might have room at this point; if he invites you then, great, but if he doesn’t, I don’t think I’d ask directly.

      1. ThursdaysGeek*

        Ok, I’ll be visiting his location next week, and we have talked about it some (he noticed I was taking the same days off as him). I do know he’s going there for the eclipse. If it comes up again, and he seems to be inviting, then I’ll express interest and find out more. If he doesn’t seem to be inviting, I won’t push it.

        It won’t do any good to ask for guidance on campsites. There aren’t any. The regularly reserved campsites in Oregon have been reserved for months, at the very least. Oregon opened a lot more reserved campsites in April (I think), and they filled within hours. Motel rooms have been reserved for a year.

        1. fposte*

          You’re not necessarily asking for guidance on campsites on the hope of getting useful guidance, though. It’s fishing for either an invitation or for info about somebody else he knows that has usable land you could camp on.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I definitely wouldn’t ask if you can join him.

      You could say that you and your spouse are looking for places and ask if he has any recommendations though.

    4. KR*

      I live in the south in a rural part of the desert and did not know about this! Can you rent a convertible and drive out to the middle of nowhere? I didn’t know eclipses usually lasted that long – you could bring some sparkling cider, a picnic, and go where the lights don’t shine bright (think absolute middle of nowhere – Mojave National Preserve, Death Valley, ect?) I’m not sure if those areas are the area you’re looking at but they are extremely dark at night.

      1. ThursdaysGeek*

        Unfortunately, we’re already close to the middle of nowhere. And a podunk town is expecting 70,000 visitors! I’ll be further east and less populated, but I think it’s going to be pretty popular. The eclipse itself only lasts a few minutes of totality, and Death Valley is way too far south.

    5. Anono-meAn*

      I used to live in an area where a lot of people have cabins. Many people would never do something like Airbnb, but would do private rentals of their cabins or of camping privileges on their land to people they knew or people that were vouched for by people they knew. Could you ask your friend if he is aware of anyone in the area who does something similar?

  163. Incognito*

    Still searching. I sent out 2 applications last weekend, and got 3 requests for phone screens on Monday (1 was from an app through an outside agency a week or so prior). I have one definite yes for an in-person interview. The other 2 were phone screened by an HR person and now have to be run by the hiring manager for go/no-go. It’s been a good week!

    The one that landed me an offer for the in-person round immediately is the one I am most excited about after going through the initial phone interview. It’s a stretch position and in a bit of a different space. It’s actually not the position for which I was submitted. The company had just filled that one but call the agency back requested a phone interview with me for a more senior position.

    So glad to end a week on a positive note! The last few Fridays have only brought disappointing news.

  164. Sarah*

    I’m working as a consultant at a (very) small organization – one of the two full-time positions will be opening in the next couple of months. How can I plant the seeds that I’d like to be considered? Wait for the job to be posted? Directly ask the other staff person?

  165. Teapot Librarian*

    Oh, the passive-aggressiveness of one of my employees. Him: “If you want me to be in charge of this, then we should do it my way.” Me: “I never asked you to be in charge of this. I asked you to help by X.” Him later: “Why did you do Y that I told you not to do?” Me: “Because Y is industry best practice, the materials we removed in doing Y were breaking, and doing Y saves a significant amount of space.” Him, under his breath: “Oh dear lord.” Him: “Do you have any more bad news for me?”
    Buck up, Teapot Librarian. You’re in the right.

    1. JulieBulie*

      “Why did you do Y that I told you not to do?”

      Are you serious? Your employee said that to you? My reply would be “I am your supervisor and I don’t owe you an explanation. However, I will explain the reasons because these are things that you should be aware of…”

      I would actually probably say something much less tactful, but I’m not a supervisor. I sure as hell wouldn’t talk that way to my boss.

  166. WriterLady*

    Finished another semester of uni, and found a job to apply for! It’s in my second choice of cities to move to (basically have to move if I’m going to get employed). Hurrah!

  167. Stuck In Retail Land*

    Retail joy: had a customer lurking in the shop past closing time – my manager’s rule is 15 minutes, no longer. So I’d crept up to give him the 5 minute warning, a very polite and cheery, “Hi! Just letting you know I’m closing up in five” and he snapped, “I AM AWARE OF THAT.”
    Five minutes after that, as I’ve fully balanced everything in my till and am calculating how late I’m going to be to an appointment, he yells from the back of the shop, “JUST BE PATIENT.”
    Finally makes his way up to the front of the store – buying nothing, of course – and proceeds to lecture me about shutting early on a Saturday, how my boss wouldn’t like me losing them valuable money, don’t I know EVERYONE does their shopping on a Saturday…
    Couldn’t help it, I pointed him to the store Hours by the counter (detailing how we should have closed 20 minutes ago), mentioned my boss sets those hours, and that I hadn’t had a sale in two hours because in this little coastal town, NO ONE SHOPS ON A SATURDAY, because the beach/cafes/anything else is far more fun.
    “But *I* shop on a Saturday!” he protested.
    And I pasted on an excellent retail smile and ushered him out so I could finally close that door and wondered why must retail be retail.

    1. Rincat*

      “Losing them valuable money!” *buys nothing*

      Gahh!!! I did food service for a while so I’ve experienced that kind of stuff as well. I worked in a coffee shop and people were awful about leaving at closing time. One couple refused to leave even an hour after we closed up.

    2. JulieBulie*

      I did something like that once. I thought they were rushing me out and trying to close a few minutes early. Later I found out that my watch’s battery was dying.
      Sorry :-(

      1. Stuck In Retail Land*

        JulieBulie, I’d say that one’s different, and I’m usually not too fussed about customers overstaying a little while – he got my goat with “Just be patient” and lecturing me, not to mention snapping right from the get go. Most customers are mortified when they realise we’re trying to close up.

        1. JulieBulie*

          You’re right – it was different. For one thing, I bought stuff and for another, I was indeed mortified when I realized my mistake! But I was snotty to them when I thought they were rushing me out early, and I felt bad about it all over again when you said what happened to you.

          I remember working in retail. The customers who embrace the “customer is always right” credo are usually the ones who are wrong.

  168. Regularly Distracted*

    So my boss finally handed out the PIP today. After my boss and grandboss had me sign this they asked me if I had anything to say or any questions. I didn’t and still don’t. I know I messed up and I know that I am the reason that this happened. I don’t have any questions at all. The PIP tells me what I need to do to keep my job and it all seems very attainable. But as my boss was leaving the office today, she reiterated that if I have any questions or anything I want to say I should just come into her office and ask.

    Are there things that people usually want to know or say when they are put on a PIP? The only thing I can think of is to apologize again, but I don’t think she is looking for something like that.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      I think she is just trying to make sure that you understand what needs to happen, and unlike this morning’s OP, wants you to succeed and be able to stay there.

    2. CAA*

      It varies a lot. Some people ask a hundred “what if” questions, and others don’t seem to understand the gravity of what’s happening. Also, sometimes people are kind of shell-shocked but questions come up later on, and your manager probably wants you to know that she’s there if you need clarification about anything. I think you could go to her on Monday and just say that you want to reiterate that you do understand the conditions of the PIP and that you are committed to doing what it takes to keep your job and will never again get into the situation that caused her to put you on a PIP in the first place.

      I’ve been away for the last few open threads and don’t know what led up to this, but generally a PIP is a message that you must immediately make a permanent change in your behavior. Completing the PIP successfully doesn’t mean going back to the way things were before, and anything you can say that makes it clear you understand that will probably reassure your manager and help you get through this.

      Good luck!

      1. Ann*

        I think CAA hit the nail on the head. I think I have read from Alison that they are looking for you to say I know I messed up, I am very remorseful, and here is how I know I will not do that again – including the things they set out in the PIP.

  169. Shellesbelles*

    What do you do when your bosses make jokes constantly about not liking you? Or jokes about having nightmares about you? It’s really disconcerting and makes me feel really uncomfortable.

    1. JulieBulie*

      You get a new boss ASAP. That is not the way for a boss to…

      …wait a second, did you say “bosses”? Please tell me that was a typo and you don’t have multiple bosses treating you this way.

      I had a boss who eventually (after a couple of years) said to my face that he hadn’t liked me during my interview. Jerk. I asked him why he had hired me. The excuse was lame (he was one of two managers who were hiring, and if he hadn’t hired me the other one would have, and I’d still be in the company. I thought to myself: that would have been great, because then my boss wouldn’t be someone who disliked me!)

      1. Shellesbelles*

        Yep, bosses plural. One will make the joke and the other will continue it… It has gotten worse since I stood up to them about a work bully. Sometimes they’re nice and other times they make jokes at my expense that make me feel like I’m back in middle school again.

        2. JulieBulie*

          Yes, that is exquisitely horrible.

          If they are reasonable people, and you are feeling adventuresome, you could ask just why you are giving them nightmares. Or why they hired you. Or why they are keeping you on.

          But they don’t sound like reasonable people and you probably shouldn’t do this. But I wish you the best of luck, because middle school feelings are the worst.

        3. Observer*

          Is there someone above them that you can talk to? HR? The possibility of a transfer?

          Was this bully just a “regular” bully, or was this related to a protected classification (ie because you are female, x ethnicity etc.)? If it’s a protected class, then it might be worthwhile to point out that retaliation is a real thing.

          And start looking for a new job. Either elsewhere in the organization or outside. Because when you get the point where you need to think about invoking legal stuff, life is never going to be comfortable with these bosses, even if they stop with the egregious stuff. The invocation is not for that. It’s just to keep things from being impossible for you. (and maybe the next person will benefit, too.)

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      This isn’t just about hurt feelings. They are hurting your credibility at work. That this started after you pushed back at them over a bully, I think it’s safe to say that pushing back in normal ways won’t have any impact, other than to make things worse.

      I’d be looking to see what jobs are available out there.

  170. Joe X*

    I work for a medical practice with about 100 providers. We see patients at outside facilities so the providers are never in the office and rarely see each other. We’re struggling with communication. Email doesn’t always work well. Having everyone come in for meetings during work hours is not feasible. People are protective of their free time so off-hours meetings are hard to do. Conference calls are difficult because it’s hard to participate on a call with that many people.

    Does anyone have any ideas for good ways to communicate in an organization like this?

    1. CAA*

      Have you tried email or paper newsletters? Keep them brief and to-the-point and more people will read them.

    2. Stephanie (HR Manager)*

      In my experience, docs (and healthcare professionals in general) need multiple comm lines. They need something put in front of their face, and then they need access to it later. Some combination of paper flyers/newsletters left in mailboxes or posted in common areas combined with email or intranet blog would be my recommendation, but really, put it back on them. Ask for feedback. If it comes from them, they are more likely to buy into the process.

  171. lucina*

    Hi, I’d like an opinion on something that happened to me. I work for a large multinational in a fairly specialized position. I’ve had enough of my department and hope to move to an equivalent position in a similar department. HR are aware of this, and I applied to 2 openings since the beginning of the year.
    To give some perspective, at any time there are 10-20 openings advertised on our intranet for broadly speaking my kind of work. I don’t think applying to these 2 was particularly outrageous (for one I was qualified but in the wrong country, for the other I was only a so-so fit, but with a very strong personal interest).
    Recently I received an invitation to an in-person interview that required travel. This was set-up by HR, they did not contact me by phone, or email to probe my interest, just set up the interview. From the job description, I didn’t think I was a suitable candidate, but my resume and career history are readily available to the company, so I thought there must have been something more to it and I accepted. Surprise surprise… I’m not the person they’re looking for. Now, the problem is that somebody told me having gone to the interview undermines my credibility because it casts a shadow on my judgement. Should I have refused the interview? I sincerely thought since I was invited *to go there* that somebody had looked at my resume and deemed it interesting from a business point of view, not that the HR intern was in charge! What do you think?

    1. JulieBulie*

      You applied. They invited you to come in for an interview.

      I’m sorry, but what did they expect? You did nothing wrong.

      THEY should actually be apologizing to YOU.

    2. CAA*

      There’s nothing you can do about what has already happened, and I can’t tell if the person who told you it undermined your credibility is someone you should believe or not. But now that you know your company’s HR is apt to setup interviews that are a waste of everybody’s time, you should vet the position and ask questions before agreeing to attend. Since you’re applying for internal positions, you can email the hiring manager and ask to setup a brief phone call to confirm the details of the position and verify that it makes sense for you to talk in person.

  172. Brogrammer*

    Today is Favorite Client’s last day, as he’s accepted a new position. He gave me his phone number and email address to keep in touch. I’m really going to miss working with him, I hope he brings my company’s product on board at his new company.

  173. Anxa*

    AAM Commentariat:

    I am at my wit’s end with this job application process. I started a new job this week, but I’m not sure I’ll really be able to take it. Ugh!

    So, it’s been a rollercoaster. My current employer has been so accommodating of my changing my story every few weeks. First I let them know I would be around during the summer. Then I let them know I had an interview. I was on the phone with potential job 1 as I had to submit my schedule. Last minute! I stayed at my current job (PT, decent pay, no potential for growth)

    Then I had ANOTHER job interview scheduled, then another for a closer version of the job I turned down (the lack of bus options and super early start time was a big factor in turning it down). I let them know about those. I was allowed evening schedules.

    I waited to long, then let them know I couldn’t work at all. THEN we worked out an even later start time for working after work.

    Meanwhile….at new job…

    I have had 2 days of orientation with no actual orientation. I just want to blurt out “where am I supposed to go tomorrow?” “What time to do I need to be here!”

    During paperwork, I see on my job description that I was supposed to sign that the day ended 30 mins later than I was told, complicating doing two nights a week at my other job. This job is temporary so I think it’s really, really reasonable to want to continue on at my old job, since I’ll need it in the fall.

    But I have to disclose other employment (as I found out after I accepted the job) and now I’m so worried it will be denied just because they won’t want me leaving early (at the originally quoted time).

    I didn’t think it would be huge deal, but when I introduced myself to my supervisor (???) who I was not who I interviewed with she told me it was fine if I didn’t stay there.

    How bad do you think it would be to quit new job and now just work a few hours a week at my current job and wash my hands of the whole thing. I mean, they would have spent more time and money training me in orientation than I’d want to adjust my schedule for the duration of the season (there are 7 hours I’d like to shift forward)

    I feel like it will make me look petty or flakey to leave (and I have a job hoppy resume, but this would be the first time I just broke it off with a job) and mean I turned down one other FT season job and a nice, full PT (24 hrs) schedule at current job on a bad risk, but I also don’t want to spend the summer somewhere so unwilling to talk to me about finding solutions. Red flag! The man who interviewed me is out sick for now and I had no idea this person would my supervisor.

    On a side note, we have been let out early 3 days in a row and I have no idea how to report my hours. The whole week has been full of ‘where am I supposed to be’ stress and other unpleasant suprises (having to drive to other locations without access to any maps or internet to map out the route, inexpected health screens).

    So far there’s a lot that I like about this, but I am getting back vibes from my supervisor (so much for a good reference or even a letter of rec for grad school) and cannot stand all this mind reading.

  174. MsChanandlerBong*

    Posting for my husband (he’s an instructional assistant, so he’s working with students all day and isn’t able to access AAM at work).

    I posted a lot last year about how my husband was having trouble finding a job. He has a bachelor’s degree, but all of his work experience until this point has been warehouse/labor jobs. His father owns a manufacturing business, so my husband worked there all through college. When he graduated, he couldn’t find a job in his field, and the only experience he had was in manufacturing. So he got another factory job. Then when that place went out of business, he still only had manufacturing/warehouse experience, so he ended up in another warehouse job. We moved across the country last year, and he was able to get a job as an instructional assistant at a nonprofit that runs a day program for people with disabilities. He was hired part-time, given a full-time job within three weeks, and made a lateral move about six months after his hire date (they have a high turnover rate due to the nature of the work, so they asked him to make the move–he wasn’t hopping from one position to another for no reason). Last week, he interviewed for a teaching position that opened up, and he got the job. It pays almost $4 an hour more than he makes now, so it’s a real boon for us. But, this will be his first non-factory/warehouse job, so he wants to make sure he’s setting himself up for success. He’d like to stay at this job for four or five years (long enough to be able to remove the factory/warehouse jobs from his resume). Any suggestions for him as far as excelling in this type of job, networking with people in the field, building good relationships with his manager, and so forth?

    Thanks to everyone who answered our questions last year. Without this community, he’d probably still be stuck in a low-paying job that he hates. :)

    1. Bibliovore*

      If there is a local support network of professionals in his area he should join. If the is a national listserv, he should sign up. If their is state or city professional development or continuing ed credits, he should avail himself of those opportunities even if he has to pay for them himself.

  175. Ramona Flowers*

    I may be too late to get replies but I think I’m just venting anyway as this is my manager’s actual problem to deal with.

    I work for a non-profit, delivering services rather than raising money to pay for them. I’m feeling pretty frustrated with Fergus who works in fundraising and seems to have latched onto me as someone who can do things for him, except I can’t.

    Example 1: Fergus asked me to check a teapot spout poured correctly. I sent corrections. He asked me to sign off on it being manufactured. I said I couldn’t do that as my manager needed to approve the final teapot so he needed to send it to her. (I couldn’t approve it. Doing so was above my expertise level and pay grade.) Fergus replied saying we could meet up for a chat if there was anything I was unclear on. (Oh, um, thanks? As if I’m somehow not comprehending something?) Exasperated, I had to repeat that my manager needed to see the final teapot.

    Example 2: Fergus is working with an outside agency. He gave them my name and told them to contact me about another teapot they want to use to pour lemonade. Had he asked me first, which would have just been courteous, I could have told him to contact my manager, and that we would need a lot more information to be able to help. (The agency hasn’t said why they want to put lemonade in this teapot, who thinks that is a good idea, or how it will work with our policy on teapots and soda, just that they want me to answer some questions about teapots.) I’ve now had to leave him and the agency hanging as I need input from my manager and she’s on vacation. I would have checked it was the right person and asked them first, surely that’s just common sense?

    I am starting to feel like this has a gendered element to it. Or at the very least like Fergus sees me as some kind of performing monkey who just does what they are told.

    1. fposte*

      Depending on how the second one plays out in real life and not teapots, that might not be that egregious–we refer outside people around all the time without checking with where we’re sending them; it keeps such contacts from stagnating with the wrong person. If he got it to the right department but it would need your manager’s authorization, that would still be okay in our book; the non-managers would be bringing stuff like this to the manager pretty regularly anyway and would likely have some information that would be useful in the mean time.

      The first one is a little weirder, but I just think Fergus wants to get stuff done and is hoping that this will make it happen. If you think you need support on it you could check with your manager that you’re pushing back in the correct way, but otherwise I think you can just broken-record it: “Sorry, Fergus, that’s still something only Jane can do. I’ve sent it to her for when she returns on Monday.” “Do you want to meet to discuss it?” “It’s policy, so that won’t help; if you’re looking for a change in policy, you’d need to talk to Jane when she comes back.”

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I don’t get the stagnating thing, sorry. Why would you tell an outside agency to talk to someone without asking first? I am the wrong person so how is this going to make something not stagnate?

        I just do not like to have my details passed on without being asked. I think it’s rude.

      2. Ramona Flowers*

        What I perhaps also didn’t make clear is that they wanted me to do considerable amounts of research at short notice without all the background information I need to make an informed choice about whether my team should assist with this project (rather than just doing what I’m told without question) and I don’t understand why, if your timescale is so tight, you wouldn’t ask first to check you have the right person.

        I don’t like being put in a position where I have to stall on something, rather than being able to be helpful, it makes me feel stressed and guilty.

  176. Cruciatus*

    My friend finally (finally, finally!) got an interview for a part-time position at my workplace (a campus). She’ll be working with people I worked with before (though not in that office, but we worked closely together and I have a good relationship with them). I know I can’t speak for my friend’s specific work ability, but would it be overstepping to say I know her to the person who’d be her supervisor? If no, what exactly would be OK to say? I’ve known her forever and I know she shows up to work (she does even to jobs she doesn’t like), she works hard, she’s smart, and a good person. I get torn between it’s better to say nothing than to accidentally somehow influence the wrong way (maybe I come across as weird about it or something). But on the other hand, then it’s an extra bit of data for the supervisor (and I’m pretty sure she respects me enough).

    1. Ann*

      Alison has said in other posts that you can tell them you know the person but do not comment about your friend’s work habits as you did not work directly with her.

  177. Daria Grace*

    What do you do when it’s your manager who is the disruptive one? I work in an open plan office and my manager does not have her own private space. She’s constantly having loud conversations. Sometimes they’re about work but often it’s chitchat about non-work matters with her favourite team mates. It’s kinda irritating and distracting. I’ve heard other people complain about it too. Is there a way to appropriately raise it with a manager or do I just have to accept that it’s her prerogative to do? She’s quite stressed and grumpy at the moment so I’m concerned about stepping out of line and causing unneeded drama.

  178. There's a Shakespeare Quote That Fits*

    I have two very lazy coworkers who avoid doing work when they believe they can get away with it.

    One read his e-book until the boss came in as she was running late – an hour and a half late that is. Tim was reading in the common area and as soon as he saw her walk in, he threw his reader into a nearby desk drawer, got his project materials out, and started working – all before she came back out of the other’s office. I don’t know if she saw him reading and then suddenly doing work. But watching it was like seeing it in a movie or on the Office! It worked perfectly for Tim, but this time I was rooting for the boss to see it.

    Then my other coworker, Alice, has me debating if she really is a brilliant, Oscar-contending actress for playing the “I Don’t Know” Queen. I can’t figure if this immaturity, “playing dumb” is an act or what. Whether it is or it isn’t, it’s causing problems.

    I’m learning how to work around them. Instead of it being a morale killer, it’s free entertainment. Because if I say something to the boss, she’ll call me the rat. I have to sit back with some popcorn and watch them do themselves in.

    1. Observer*

      Your boss will call you a rat for telling her that you have problem x due to Alice not doing something or other? Wow!

  179. Delta Delta*

    This week I happened to run into someone I knew from Toxic OldJob. I didn’t work at the same place as him, but often did business with his company and saw him often. He told me that OldJob has become even more toxic than ever, and that Evil Former Co-Worker is nastier than ever before. He told me people are looking to take their business elsewhere because she is so nasty. So, not that I’m glad to hear that others are unhappy, but I was glad to have my choice to leave that toxic stew of dysfunction validated.

    1. St Anon*

      Hurrah, I love moments like that. I’d left TOJ for a week, got a call from a former client, and why the call? To ask if I could pass on a complaint about former boss, who had taken over when I left. After thinking I just couldn’t hack it, it was nice to see it was her, not me (and a couple of other higher ups emailed me when I left, basically confirming it was her, not me, and they wished I’d stuck around).

      Validation is super nice.

  180. SoftwareGuy*

    TLDR; I have been fired repeatedly by startups when I was consistently told to be an excellent employee as a software developer. I’m at loss as to how to handle my professional life and find a job where I can have honest conversations about issues and feedback with my employer.

    I’ve been seeking advice as to how I should handle a tricky situation related to the IT industry. I have worked for five years as a software developer. Given that I wasn’t sure what I wanted from my career just out of school, I have went from one job to the other, usually staying for about a year to any given company. Over the last couple of years however I attempted holding two full time positions and was unsuccessful in doing so for reasons I struggle to understand. In my first position, I was given stellar reviews every month only to be fired after a year with no warning and no reason. In my second job in the last two years, I was also given excellent reviews every month and so far as I can tell, got along with my boss and coworkers well. I as fired again however, this time after eight months and the reason given was that I talked about politics during a company trip and that I was not a good “culture fit”, during which I was expected to spend considerable time with coworkers and share a room among other things. While I now acknowledge talking about politics isn’t appropriate at work, many other people were and yet I was the only one fired despite again excellent reviews, generous severance and a strong letter of recommendation from my former boss. It just seemed over the top to me to be fired with no warning for a relatively simple problem to fix, and I was careful obviously not to insult anybody and to be open to other people’s views.

    For added information, those two jobs were at startups. It was also remote work, as I am in a long distance relationship and need the remote work to see my significant other regularly. I always made efforts to integrate the team, participate in team trips/retreats and as far as I can tell could get along with people well. I also am an African American male, and I’m unsure if my ethnicity or skin color could play a role in this. At my last company, I have worked with people who had very conservative views and I was the only black person there. There were also no women and very little diversity despite claims from the company to the contrary.

    All of this brings me to my problem: I’m at loss as to how I can keep a job for a decent employer in this industry. I am open to feedback and actively seek it and yet every time I was fired for issues that could have easily been solved and with no notice. I’m getting discouraged by the way the job market works and am having trouble not getting depressed at the arbitrary decision making I have to deal with without being the opportunity to address problems when I am otherwise consistently told to be an excellent performer. I’m also having a hard time accepting all the callousness, sexism and general narrow-mindedness I’ve observed in my field, with people who seem more interested in being frat brothers than being professional. Any suggestions as to how I should handle these feelings as well as my career in the future? I’m currently in the process of job searching and may get an offer soon, but I’m afraid the same scenario will repeat itself.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      I have an inlaw who has the same problem, minus the long distance remote thing and being fired for talking politics that I know of. (although, he might be at some point. He does not know when to keep quiet about politics, and I’m not privy to why he has left each of 5 companies in less than 5 years)

      So my advice is to stop working at start ups! They too often have not a clue how to manage people, and are well on their way to IPO or selling to someone bigger before they get experienced managers and real HR. And even then, look at how Uber is imploding from all the frat boy culture. It’s not that there aren’t good ones, but anyone with an idea who can find some investors (and who thinks it’s a drag to work for other people, because other companies enforce professional norms!) think it will be fun to work with their buddies, or other like minded people. Whose politics the owners agree with, so of course they won’t be fired for talking about politics..

    2. Ann O.*

      Not sure about the location issues, but I’d recommend trying a medium-sized or large company rather than a startup if possible with your constraints. Nowhere is perfect and you can always be unlucky with a crappy manager or bad team, but my experience is that the small size and volatility of start ups make them much more prone to crappy behavior.

      And sympathy for your last firing. I’ll try not to read into things too much, but the details you provided certainly don’t put your former company in a good light.

  181. Ann*

    I want to say how happy I am to have found this site and community.
    I have learned so much about myself and about work. I feel that my relationship with my direct supervisor has really changed as a result. And I have given a few pieces of advice (I think, what would Alison say – and all of you) and people have been really really happy with what I have suggested. One said, it is so obvious when you say it, why didn’t I think of that!
    So many thanks to all of you!

  182. Nic*

    Exciting things seem to be coming my way. A couple of weeks ago a supervisor role to what I do now opened at my place of employment. There are two tiers within my role for normal promotion progression, I’m lowest tier and have been here for 8 months.
    Two weeks ago one of my coworkers (a tier up) suggested that I go for the supervisor-level role. I expressed that I was interested and considering, but that I didn’t have the other two tiers (and 3 years) of experience suggested by the job description.
    Two days ago I had a meeting with my manager and the head of the department. They let me know that they really appreciated my work and spoke highly of changes I’d made since the last meeting. I decided to float the possibility of applying for the supervisor position, and they both responded positively. The department head even said “If I don’t see your resume by next week I’ll chase you down for it.” !!!!!
    Yesterday I got an IM asking me to step into the head of the business in my location’s office. “I just wanted to tell you, in case no one has recently, that you are a fantastic worker and we really appreciate all you do.”

    So I’m floating on cloud nine and reworking my resume with the job description open as well. I’d be moving from the lowest tier to supervisor. I feel like between my experience and the great information I’ve gained here I’ll do reasonably well, but of course there are jitters.

    Has anyone experienced something like this? Any interview pointers? If I get it, any suggestions on dealing with getting jumped several levels over your peers?

  183. Sparkly Librarian*

    Well, after more than a decade of trying to internalize “fake it until you make it”… I think I’ve made it. (I thought the timeline for that sort of thing in the office was more like 6 months. I think I would have had a better time in my twenties if I’d known how to calibrate my expectations.) I had a formal orientation today for the position I transferred into a couple weeks ago, and felt comfortable with every single bullet point in the two-page workplan. I can do that! I can learn to do that! I have already been doing that! I’ve enjoyed the last two weeks immensely despite it being a very busy time of year (the “you know, I JUST started on Tuesday, so I’m not sure… let me find out for you” is still working its magic). And when I run into stuff I haven’t done before, I am dealing with it in a healthy way — thinking “I haven’t done this before, so it might be awkward at first, but I’ve done similar things and can apply those skills, and I know whom I can ask for help.” instead of “OMG I DON’T KNOW WHAT I AM DOING AND THIS IS GONNA SUUUUUUCK. I LOOK SO STUPID.”

    I finally feel, strongly and sincerely, that I am really GOOD at what I do. (As opposed to the more temporary sensation of “I really rocked that interaction” or “Man, I was on fire today/this week!”) Where I would expect imposter syndrome to rear its head, I keep being pleasantly surprised that I am coming out ahead of expectations. I have something to contribute to my workplace, my peers, and my superiors. AND there is room for me to grow and learn to do better, because I sure as heck don’t know everything or do everything perfectly, but my starting baseline is really GOOD. *happy dance*

    2. Humble Schoolmarm*

      Great news! I had a similar experience after moving to a new position this year. Amazing how a new environment can flip that switch.

  184. Julia*

    I’ve worked for my boss for six years. It was a great opportunity and I’ve done my best with it. My boss is very supportive and appreciative with his staff.
    He’s also overloaded and has taken on even more. His distraction and unavailability have been getting worse and worse for about two years, to the point where I’m concerned he’ll get in trouble for not doing things he’s supposed to do. He’s also seemed moody – cranky and passive-aggressive- for the last few months, and messed up a project because he put it off until it was a crisis, then rushed through it.
    I work closely with him on complex and sensitive financial things that no one else handles. I’m afraid he’s a workaholic on the downward spiral. If it’s not that, something else is messing him up.
    If he goes down, how do I protect myself from going down with him? Of course I would help him if I got the opportunity – but I won’t lose my job because I can’t count on another opportunity like this one.
    I’ve been trying to document my work and attempts to communicate. I’ve saved my agendas for our weekly meetings and my project lists, and screen shots of texts. If necessary I can show I tried to show him things and get direction, and tried to work on projects.
    Is there anything else I should be doing to protect myself?

    1. JulieBulie*

      Is there someone else in the company you can work for? Because this problem will not resolve itself. Unfortunately, if he goes, you might be gone too, even if everyone believes that you are totally blameless. That’s if they decide not to replace him, which is sometimes the case even when you can’t imagine not having anyone in that role.

      People don’t suddenly become workaholics for no reason. Something has happened or is happening. If you have the kind of relationship where you can ask him about it and you want to know and help, go ahead and ask. (It is a risk, so don’t open that door unless you’re sure you want to.) But if you don’t have that kind of relationship, or you don’t want to take the risk, remind yourself that this is not actually your responsibility.

      Who you really need to talk to is someone above your boss. You could maybe ask if someone else is available to help out because your workload is heavier due to, “you know… Boss’s situation.” That way you can find out if anyone else is even aware of what’s happening.

      Aside from that, I can’t think what else you can possibly do unless there is someone you can enlist as a witness.

      1. Julia*

        Thanks Julie! I hope there’s someone else I can work for, if necessary.
        He’s the Chair of the department so I think they would replace him. I’m concerned more about him having a breakdown or getting in so much trouble they have to fire him (in that case, I want to make sure no one thinks I was involved). Short of that, he’s not likely to be replaced.
        He’s training a vice chair. It’s early in the training and the vice chair is nowhere near ready to take over.
        I really don’t want to ask about his personal life! The little I know is messy. I had to set some boundaries against his “family” approach to his staff.
        I like the organization and would love to stay there. I’ve thought of looking for another position, but my boss would take it as a betrayal and be terribly upset. Since he’s so distracted and not present, he relies more than ever on his staff. The same applies to talking to boss – it would be a last resort. His boss is in the process of retiring and passing the job on to someone new.
        I’m sure others have noticed my boss’ difficulties. As far as I can tell, my best course is to stay in my position until/unless something changes.
        Is there anything more I can do to make sure I don’t get in trouble if he does? I save our meeting agendas and my project lists and texts with him, so I can show I tried to communicate and get direction. I’ve also done my best with helping others in the department and as far as I can tell they think I’m valuable.
        It’s a good idea to have a witness if necessary – I’ll think about who might be a good choice for that. Or my miniature tape recorder if necessary!
        Thanks! :)

          1. Julia*

            Thanks Julie! I’m sorry to be replying so late.
            It’s so good to have another opinion on this! :)

  185. Vertigo*

    Hope it’s ok to post this from last week since it didn’t get any responses:

    Two small questions about resumes:

    1) What’s the best way to list a sporadic job on a resume, especially one that used to have a lot more work? I’ve worked as an occasional night/weekend front desk attendant for a place that rents out its meeting rooms to outside groups; they basically have several people on roster and send out dates they need covered, and schedule people who respond. For a while it wasn’t exactly steady work, but I’d probably get a few dates a month. (I always explained in my cover letters that it’s a sporadic position.) About two years ago there was a period where they needed a lot of coverage, but then they hired a night manager, which since has made the hours pretty rare. I’ve put the end date of my working there as when they hired the new night manager, but in the time since I have covered for them every once in a blue moon. I definitely don’t pick up enough shifts to feel comfortable saying I work there, but I don’t /not/ work there (and I use my supervisor as a reference). Should I at least change the dates to indicate that I’ve worked there more recently, even though it’s been less than 10 shifts in the last year?

    2) One of the reason’s I’m worried about #1 is that though I’m only looking for office jobs now, the only steady work I had between when I stopped working regularly at the front desk position and my current job was a customer service position that I had for a year an a half. (It was really, really difficult for me to find other work after college.) It’s completely unrelated to the jobs I’d apply to, but without it on there I have a major gap in my job history (besides some short volunteer work for festivals related to my field). Should I add it on in an ‘other experience’ section, or is it not worth it?

    1. Irish Em*

      Maybe if you describe it as freelance? Or say that depending on the needs of the business you transitioned from shift work to freelance? Would that work?

    2. JulieBulie*

      You don’t need to highlight that it’s sporadic in your cover letter if you’re already saying that in your resume. Put “12/12/2015 [or whatevs] to present” on your resume and explain that it’s fill-in or intermittent work. I’m not sure if you need to mention it in your cover letter at all.

      If there is any way that you can describe your customer service position in a way that highlights relevant skills (telephone work, dealing with the public, customer satisfaction, etc), keep it where it is. Especially if you don’t already have an “other experience” section. Don’t create an “other experience” section just for one job. If you do need to create that section, dredge up some other experience that you can add to it, even if it’s a high school job or volunteer thing.

    3. Nieve*

      In my country that would be called ‘casual, on-call work’ and what I would write by the job title or in the descriptions section. Is this term used in the US too? I think that in some ways, it shows flexibility on your side and willingness to make social sacrifices for work on a short notice

  186. TheLazyB*

    The Venn diagram of ‘songs you’d play at work’ overlaps pretty well with ‘songs you’d play in front of a five year old’.

    Discuss.

    (FWIW I play songs in front of the small child that I’d never play in work ;D )

    1. Irish Em*

      I only have one track that I wouldn’t play at work/around a five-year-old (unless at work there was a terrible boundary-crossing offender like the current letter over at Captain Awkward) and that is Get Back by Ludacris. I only listen to that when I need to ready myself for confrontation or need to up my confidence/aggression. Otherwise it’s mainly mainstream pop, Classical music, opera, soundtracks to film and tv, alternative pop and some trad. All of which is people friendly.

  187. Irish Em*

    Not sure how positive I should be feeling right now.

    I had an interview yesterday for a role I’d really love – good wages (and HR guy was happy that my expectations were smack dab in the middle of their offered range before I even qualified for interview), handiest commute ever (10 minute walk from my house – which fact impressed my interviewers), opportunities for training and career progression (which I made clear I was interested in), opportunities for travel, etc., etc….

    The interview was a bit different to previous interviews I’ve had. For one thing, I was nearly an hour talking with the lads, having started on time at 9AM, having good banter with the lads (sorry, interviewers) and I was told that one of my examples I used during the interview – which had originally been something else, but I got diverted – was an excellent one by both of them. They asked me a question I have never been asked before in my life – what do you regret? Actually it was more like, tell me about something that happened that you regret and would you change it if you could go back? Is that a normal question in a business interview? I was able to crack a joke about regretting getting a take away while thinking about my true answer, and giving an answer that was a lot closer to something I’d own up to among friends than in a workplace (but keeping it work appropriate as much as possible). I just don’t know why that’s a thing that they asked.

    They said they had people to interview all day and that hopefully I’ll hear early next week if I got it. It looks like I was the first one of the day and I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not, either. The first act on Eurovision never does well, which is my chosen comparison, lol.

    A friend of mine who used to work in recruitment said that the fact that they kept talking for nearly an hour was a good sign, but I am the worst judge of how these things go. I’m hoping that my current part-time work (where I managed to use for two examples) will encourage them to poach me away. I keep hearing that employers prefer people who are working than not working to take on.

    What do you guys think? Do I need to just forget it and keep on applying elsewhere or does this seem really positive? They haven’t asked for references or education documents yet, but apparently that’s a HR thing.

    2. Nieve*

      No matter how well you feel that you did in an interview, ALWAYS move on and keep applying to other opportunities as if nothing had happened. I had the best interview of my life a few weeks ago and was told they would let everyone know in a week. Over 3 weeks had passed before they let me know that I was not successful. Thankfully I had found this blog and absorbed most of the important advice, and kept moving on with other opportunities and sent in other applications. If I hadn’t had these type of advice, I probably could have easily put other applications on the back burner while waiting for this opportunity that I REALLY wanted at the time (Im not too bothered about it now as it was very entry level and I am now in the final stages of the hiring process for a better role with significantly more pay) :)

  188. Ysra*

    Should I tell my boss about going off my meds?

    Background: I was diagnosed with comorbid depression and combined-type ADHD about three years ago; I’ve avoided medicating the ADHD but I’ve found that treating the depression gives me enough emotional energy to self-regulate and lessen the impact. I started my new job last winter, and I’ve been working with my current manager for only a couple weeks at this point.

    Unfortunately, due to insurance/doctor/pharmacy miscommunications and shenanigans, I haven’t been able to get a refill on my antidepressants for about a week now, with my pills and my emergency refills used up. In other words, I am abruptly going cold turkey, and I’m honestly getting sick enough of trying to get my refills through the cloud of 3-way miscommunication that I’m giving real thought to just quitting altogether. I don’t appear to be experiencing much in the way of symptoms (knock on wood!) but I’m wondering if this is still something I should loop my new boss in on in case I abruptly get punched in the face with withdrawal symptoms.

    Things I do know about my boss: he tends to be very supportive of us, my company places a high emphasis on the success of management being directly tied to the success of their reports. On the other hand, he’s also very tough-minded.
    Things I don’t know about my boss: how he would respond to an admission of poor emotional regulation, or what his general position is on mental health influencing workplace performance.

    Does anyone have helpful feedback, or even just things to take into consideration?

    1. overeducated*

      Hmm. Not a mental health expert in any way but I think if you’re not sure how he’d react, maybe keep it vague: “I want to let you know that I’m going through a transition with medications that might have temporary impacts on my work while I adjust. I hope it won’t and I’ll do my best to adjust, but since we are new to working together and you might not know my normal work product yet, i want you to know about this in case it helps put concerns into context.”

      also good luck and take care.

  189. Job seeker*

    Alison,

    We have a strict no cell phone policy at work – so I keep mine silenced. I am currently receiving offers/phone video interview invitations for new jobs, which is great. I recently received a potential employer’s emails and responded the next day due to it being very late at night. This may be an obvious question – is it appropriate to request a confirmation of phone interview time via email if the email text and invite (Outlook) have two different dates (it was likely a typo)? The recruiter previously asked if I was available during the week – but part of the email says it is during a weekend. I don’t want to come off as rude by pointing out what is likely a typo.

    Thank you.

    1. Irish Em*

      I don’t think it’s rude to ask for a confirmation, a la:

      Dear (Recruiter),
      This is (Me) emailing to confirm the date/time of the phone interview.

      Kind regards,
      (Me)

      -You don’t even have to ask if there’s a typo, just ask to confirm.

  190. Tafadhali*

    Does anyone else have trouble with monopolizing discussions at work? I’m a talker — partly just how I am and partly due to anxiety and impulse control problems, which means I’m aware when I’m talking too much but really, really struggle to stop once I start — and I’ve gotten pretty good at controlling it with students, in meetings, and in large group discussions, but small breakout discussions (“Get in a group of four and talk about these scenarios!”) always seem to trigger my over-participation.

    I’m just very bummed out right now because I got kind but emphatic feedback about it from a coworker yesterday…in the last five minutes of our pre-summer break meeting…meaning I can’t make up for it for three months…and am feeling a bit helpless about fixing a problem I’ve been aware of for years. I think it would have helped if I had taken the note-taker job, but other than “Just be better at not talking!” (which I’m working on!) do any of you have strategies that work? I hate when I realize I’ve interrupted or rambled.

    1. fposte*

      Oh, boy, I get this. For one thing, can you think about what the difference is between the situations where you do control it and where you don’t? For another, rather than just thinking about not talking, can you think about something to do instead? Have a “listening” quota, target some things you want to learn from other people during the discussion, put yourself in charge of a time clock to be sure of fairly shared participation? Can you incorporate 30-second or so alarms or check-ins with your colleagues? Bring water and be sure you take a sip from it once a sentence, which gives other people a chance to break in? The interruptible rambler is less of a problem than the uninterruptible one.

      Another thing to consider is to sharpen up your observation of other people–there are usually signs when you’re going on too long for the space, such as people no longer meeting your eyes, or starting to make “uh-huh” noises more frequently in the hope of a chance to break in, or freezing absolutely still, or taking out their phones. It’s likely you’re missing those.

      The other thing to keep in mind is how much more valuable meetings are likely to be to *you* if you dial it back. Note meetings where you got a chance to listen to people and remember how much you got out of them. That’s what you’re going for.

      1. Tafadhali*

        Thanks for the feedback! Having a beverage to focus on is great advice, and I’ve definitely thought about setting a listening quota. One of the challenging parts of this is that I am VERY aware of cues, but can’t always stop midstream — I do try hard to intentionally redirect back to people if I interrupt, but yesterday my colleague was doing that FOR me which only made me more flustered/anxious.

        I think breakout groups are a challenge because they’re like being back in school (where I was a real Hermione Granger). Rather than “Here are my three thoughts on the new book order system — what does Accounts think?”, everyone is being asked to respond to a nebulous question (“How would you respond to this scenario?”) and it can feel like “I’m supposed to contribute! Do I have something say about this??? I have to say something! Other people are awkwardly not talking.” In school, I would check in with professors if I was worried about being domineering, and I also had more opportunity to course correct. At work, these sessions are typically short, unexpected, and not frequent enough for me to get to chance to make up for a bad day!

  191. Anony Mouse*

    Anyone here a vet/vet tech? I’ve heavily considered pursuing one of those careers, but the main thing holding me back is the idea of having to put animals down. I know there are times it’s best for the animal, and it’s probably not anyone’s favorite part, but I don’t know if I could ever be the one to do it. At the same time, taking care of animals appeals to me a lot. I know I’d see a lot of sick and injured animals, which also wouldn’t be easy, but my job would be to help them and do all I can for them. Any insight?

    1. Nieve*

      Im not either of those but my childhood dream (a real one that COULD have happened) was to be a vet. While growing up I found that I didnt like blood and the thought of euthanizing animals really put me off pursuing the vet career so I just did biology (animal behaviour, conservation, ecology etc). As a pet owner I’m all for euthanasia, its better to let them go rather than prolonging their suffering. But honestly I dont know how the clinic workers do it (including the receptionists etc), because the last couple of times I had to put my pets down I was literally sitting there bawling my eyes out. If I worked in a vet clinic and had to interact with people who bawled my eyes out like me, I would be bawling my eyes out with them (professional conduct would be thrown out the window).
      Something that might help- a quote. “I’ve sent you on a journey free of pain. Not because I didn’t love you, but because I loved you too much to ask you to stay” (I cant even type this without getting teary). I believe euthanasia is done out of absolute love and compassion.

  192. Late 2 The Party*

    OK so I’m applying for a few internal positions with the company I already work for. There is an online application process for internal applicants that HR told me to use. It’s weird because you can only upload ONE resume for all jobs you apply to – so you cannot customize the resume based on the job description! Moreover, there is no place to upload a cover letter, and it doesn’t really make sense to include it with the resume for the previous reason, that you can only upload ONE cover letter and it cannot be customized to the job description. So I feel like I cannot put my best foot forward when applying.

    **BUT** The names of the hiring managers are listed on the job descriptions. I do not know any of these hiring managers personally as they are in other departments. But they are all located at my location and I can find where they sit based on the company directory. Would be it creepy/weird to drop by with my application after applying online, or to send them an email with cover letter and resume after submitting online? Basically is it weird/bad to reach out to hiring manager after submitting online application? Again, these are internal positions.

    Thanks!

    1. Frustrated Optimist*

      Well, first of all, what a terrible system that only lets you upload one version of your resume/cover letter and never change it. All the systems I have seen give you the option to reuse your last file, or upload a new one. I mean, presumably, the longer you stay at this company, the more skills you will acquire, and they’re saying you can *never* update your resume?!

      But anyway, back to your question: Under the circumstances, I would say that it would be OK to e-mail the hiring managers. (Don’t drop by). In your e-mail, you could say briefly that you followed the official HR protocols, but that “…The system did not allow for much customization, so I wanted you to have a clearer picture of my background and skills.”

      Hope this helps!

      1. Late 2 The Party*

        Well you can change it. What I meant is that you can only have one resume uploaded in the system at a time. So if I want to apply for 2-3 different jobs I can only provide on resume/cover letter for all of them, even though the jobs emphasize somewhat different parts of my experience.

        Thanks for the tip though… I think you’re right not to drop by and I can send an email to at least one of the hiring managers who I’ve spoken to before (I don’t really know her well but at least we have had some contact before!) Thanks :)

        1. Frustrated Optimist*

          Thanks for the clarification that you can change your uploaded documents. In that case, I would upload a new document each time you apply for a new position, if you’re saying the system allows that.

          I’ve had to do this with several employers: They give you the option to re-use an existing document, or upload a new one. I always upload a new one.

          …Which is not to say that you can’t also reinforce your interest to the hiring manager(s) via e-mail, indicating that you have followed the HR procedures, but just wanted them to be aware of your application.

          1. Late 2 The Party*

            It does allow that. But then it means the hiring manager for the first position I apply to will see the resume for the second position. And so on. Because only one resume can be in the system per user at a time. So I can upload a new resume to my profile, but I CANNOT upload a resume per position.

  193. Vacation question*

    I’ve seen a post on here about how long you should wait before taking a week off work in a new job, but is the rule different for taking off a day or two in a row (assuming all PTO has been accrued, of course)? I just started my first “real” job and would like to take a long weekend vacation in about four months.

    I have a fun destination in mind, but part of it is that I’ll accrue a couple more days of PTO this year than I can roll over at the end of the year, so I wanted to try to use a day or two to take a long weekend. Ideally, I’d then roll over the max amount of days at the end of the year, but I’d still have plenty of time to take a sick day if I need it before the year ends. Is four months too soon to take time off? Are some days generally more acceptable to take off than others (ex: Monday/Tuesday vs. Thursday/Friday)? I know it depends on how busy things are at work, so I’m really just wondering “generally, how long do I have to wait”? I don’t want to raise questions about my work ethic, but I also don’t want to miss out on the PTO that I can’t roll over.

    1. Vacation question*

      Also! (If anyone’s even reading this post) How far in advance should I ask? I haven’t received any information on procedures at this place, and the structure makes it unlikely that I’ll be able to observe what others do.

    2. LQ*

      If you can’t observe others I think that makes it a lot harder because I’d say this varies a lot from place to place. Where I am now a 4 day weekend would be super reasonable and expected even. If you can’t observe I’d say what are people like on other things? Is the expectations to put in lots of long long hours or do people normally go home “on time”? And how approachable is your boss? I think it might be reasonable to go in and say I’m looking for a 4 day weekend this fall, is any time worse to do it? Sort of I’m expecting this to be reasonable but I don’t yet know the ebb and flow of work enough to pinpoint a specific weekend that would be ideal. (Is it better to extend a 3 day weekend or do you have an issue with not enough coverage? Does everyone already take the teachers workshop weekend off (we have that here in my state but I don’t know if all states do) so that’s a bad one?)

      1. Vacation question*

        This is helpful, thanks! I like that wording. People are pretty on time with leaving, but most of us are hourly anyway. My boss is in a different office completely, which makes things even odder to work out.

        (I may ask this question again in next week’s open at a better time. You gave me a really helpful answer; I just want to hear how it works in other places too!)

Comments are closed.